and I'll turn things over to Mr. Ber.
>> Yeah, of course I sent you guys a
memorandum gee a long time ago kind of
outlining what's before you. Uh what you
have is a balanced budget proposal. U
not a lot of changes in revenue
structure. The one significant thing is
the bole. We're looking to
go up 5 cents. The current rate is 15
cents per $100 of gross sales on
businesses.
Is it a million dollars currently? I
can't remember. The change we're
proposing is to raise it to 20 cents per
100 on businesses with a gross sales of
10 million.
>> So right now it's 250,000 and up. It's a
gross receipts tax up to 2 million and
then a higher one at 10 million. So this
just raises the 10 million.
>> And we'll get into this again. This is
your day to ask whatever questions, have
conversations you want to. One thing
I'll tell you is in the current year,
what we've been doing with the B pole is
kind of ramping that up to get back
close to where we were at the time of
reversion. Uh those revenues are
performing very well in the current
year.
>> And we're projecting that if you adopted
this increase, it would add another
40,000. Y
>> let's let's let's pin $750,000 in our
head as we have all these discussions.
We know that revenue goes away in two
cycles.
We are trying to make headway there and
we a lot of what we're doing is
strategic to deal with that. We're
making a little bit of progress but not
much. That that 750 is still in
operating here. We talked about that
with the departments as well. But we do
have a funded contingency.
We're not using prior year reserves, but
that contingency
could be tied up with uh carryover
costs, debt payments,
and those sort of things. Now, the other
thing I want to bring to your attention
is one of the strategies deals with the
transfer station. Getting out of the
commercial solid waste service was the
right decision financially and we're
seeing the benefits of that already. In
fact, one of the things in this budget
is solid waste fund is making money and
transferring the general fund. I don't
know when that's happened
>> ever. I don't think so.
>> Okay. We still own a transfer station
that we don't need. So, want to talk to
you about that. We're negotiating with
somebody about a potential franchise,
but one way or the other, we probably
just need to get out of that because
we're subsidizing debt service. The
other part of that is as county
taxpayers, we have access to excellent
services provided by the county that we
are paying for. So that truly is a
duplication of services and it's
something that we are paying. So one of
the things we want to talk to you about,
it's not really reflected here because
we don't know what the franchise is
going to look like, but we would like to
go ahead and plan to shut that down
>> and get the savings for that. So that's
not really included here in something we
can talk about where we can chip away at
that simple thing.
>> No, I think we should in that I've said
all along anything that we're
duplicating that possibly someone else
can do better or the same uh at a same
or less cost we need to talk about and
that's one of them. Of course, there are
some uh repercussions there also, but we
need to look at pros and cons and figure
out what is best for the town to move
forward and long term, not just short
term. Long term, the 750K is one of
those things, but I like to think we
have a plan to address that when that
time comes. And u I'm I'm going to say
leave it at that and uh leave it to
staff to figure that one out, which I
think you are.
>> And we'll refer to that several times
during the day as it comes up.
>> Yeah. Yes. So any budget
>> other thing just a few other things
before you all get started. What
whatever it is you want to do. Um
>> electric's going to be its own
discussion. We've restructured the
budget to kind of isolate costs as much
as possible electric to try to present a
true cost of
what our customers are paying and all
the operations and all the percentages.
And we've eliminated the transfer from
the electric fund to the general fund,
but we've included what we call payment
in lie of taxes calculation.
And that's based on what we would
estimate
if the electric company were a private
utility within our boundaries and we
were able to tax them. We're estimating
that we would see over $500,000 in tax
revenue if they were separate. So that's
this budget is built on that isolating
those costs, restructuring the revenue
flow because and we you can talk about
this even if we were to get out of the
electric business and that needs to if
you're even going to consider that and
that needs to be a very long
wellthoughtout discussion.
We'd still have some revenues. It also
involve a massive restructuring of the
entire town operation. So you're willing
to go there today or start that
conversation. I'm I'm
>> Well, let me I don't mean to keep
interjecting here, but I would say on
those lines,
>> it's kind of like the comp plan. You
need to look 5 10 years down the road to
see where we want to be or what we want
to continue doing. and and not that I
would like to see that happen because
this this electric electric department
is longstanding and has proven itself
how valuable it is but times change
situations change and as we see rates
and transmission costs change so that is
one thing that I would welcome the
discussion not that we are intending to
do it but we do do need to probably look
at that as as what I call a vision
something that we could envision down
the
Could I also add just to that s is the I
think that we have to have the
discussion on levels of service and
other things as well.
>> So
>> yeah, it won't go along with what you're
saying.
>> Yeah. So I just got a few of things that I'm aware of and talking to
some of you and talking to staff. Now
within the electric fund
or administrative process, we're talking
about absorbing credit card fees which
would come at a cost currently
calculated about 250,000 and that is
updated in here. Right.
But it's 500,000 in this one. So we
actually have $250,000
» that would again and that's a matter of
practice. U different places do it
different ways. Um that we did that in a
meeting with one of our large utility
customers that pays by credit card and
they asked us to consider it. So we've
included it for discussion. Um
going back uh one thing I you'll see too
you'll see some things over time that
have increased. One is the police
department budget and we'll speak to
that. A lot of that relates to the fact
that we do things differently in our
hiring and management processes.
We do not really compete at the entry
level in terms of salary. In fact, we're
probably out of market on that. However,
if you come here and work, we do offer
career ladders and we offer people
opportunities to pursue different
certifications and develop different
skills which costs money. There's
training involved. There's also risk
involved. We can train them up and they
can go elsewhere. But uh what we're
finding in practice is we now when we
have a vacancy at the officers level, we
actually have a wait list of people
wanting to come work for us. So, but
we're paying for that. So, you know, we
acknowledge that that is a a premium
level of service that we're trying to
provide the community, but it costs
money,
>> right?
>> Also, um parking enforcement may come up
too. Um
>> it it will. Great. We'd love to have a
talk. We need to have all kinds of
conversations about that.
If you want to fund a position, that's
great. We'll just have to find a way to
do it. And I don't want to get ahead of
you.
>> Also, just want a couple of well
relatively minor things, but they have
impact. We continue to talk about
management of our property up by Stony
Creek Reservoir and to pursue
conservation of that property and ways
that that could generate revenue. Now,
that's a complicated discussion and the
details of it are involve some legal
things and some negotiations and would
probably have to occur in close session.
And for anybody who's watching this
later, it's not that we're hiding
anything. It's just when we go to
negotiate on behalf of the public, our
hands are already tied behind our back.
So, if we're completely upfront, we
don't get a good deal.
>> Right?
>> And I hate to say it that way, but
that's as blunt as I can be.
>> So, that's we're having those
conversations as well. Um, also kind of
down in the weeds, some of the issues
we've had with our electric utility of
vault billing. We had an issue with our
mailing service. We may have another
current mailing service issue. So,
we can talk about a change there, but it
would involve more effort on the part of
staff. In fact, one of the things we can
talk about is buying a postage machine.
And I'll tell you, I know how to run it,
so I'll do it myself if I have to.
>> Well, people can be trained. someone
else can be trained to back you up.
>> So, those are in addition to my memo I
sent you way back when, those are things
we've talked about. The staff has been
great. We've had a committee review
this. I feel like it's been a good
process for them to understand how
things work, too. But
those those are the introductory
comments I had. Basically, we're kind of
at your disposal today. And my thought
is you guys can talk this through and see where it leads.
>> Where do y'all want to start in the
beginning and move through it or how do
y'all do you want to do it? You want to
start what's
>> okay?
You want to get through the prelimin
areas and go to
» I don't think we need to do line and
line either. I thought we just
>> Yeah, just
all right. Where do you want? Where do
y'all want to start?
22 or positions or
what say you Dave?
>> I just had a I mean, first of all,
thanks to the staff for putting this
together. I mean, it's been it's been
really helpful. And then just being able
to ask questions. You provided enough,
you know, enough lead time to for me at
least to get questions asked and
answered. And I appreciate y'all doing
that. I just wanted to note that again
it uh like in your financial piece on
page 62 it does talk about the town
having limited revenue resources
dedicate dedicated to capital investment
and that's that's been a concern of mine
just I mean this is just kind of lead to
lead up into a discussion later on but
you know that we don't have really a
funded capital improvement plan so
anything we do would be uh debt service
I'm sorry, Dan. And now I forgot to
mention with the reservoir discussion,
you also identified a list of potential
properties that could be identified as
surplus that could be marketed. I
haven't forgotten about that and Mike
did the title research. So, our thought
was we get the bigger issue with the
reservoir kind of squared away before we
present that to you, but I can present
that to you. The thought is if there are
properties that could be surplus, we
could sell them and dedicate that
onetime revenue towards onetime capital.
So, didn't mean to interrupt, but one
app.
>> Thank you. A quick note, in this year's
budget, we do have $260,000
of cash funding for capital.
» We're looking at doing
service.
And then Barb mentioned the 750. We all
know that coming up. I I there's one
thing I wanted to ask a question on
though on the on page 73 and about the pie chart.
>> Yes.
>> Um it shows operating at 60% personnel
at 23%. And I appreciated the note on
the next page, but if you take like you
said the electrical fund out of that
operating
personnel and operating about 5050,
>> it should be and actually personnel may
jump up higher. It's just purchase power
costs such a large number that on this
chart it really drives the operating
percentage
>> because my point would be that I'm not
about anything about personnel but I
know again from previous experience that
As healthcare costs and everything go
up, the projection for personnel is
going to be taking a large percentage of
our budget. And so our percentage of
operating cap capital will go down.
Trying to lay the groundwork because
I've got some issues about revenue that
we need to talk about. So, okay, that's
my introductory stuff, too. So, I'll
shut up now.
>> No, you won't.
>> I won't. No, I won't. You know me too
well. Keep on going.
>> Okay.
>> What else? Anybody else have spot seeds
they want to plant?
» Also neglect to me. It is another
operation in the current year that we've
seen great inflation and
additional cost over what we budgeted. A
lot of that relates to guidance from our
insurance about our management of of
security issues. the fact that well we
can't really neglect those. It's one of
those things where when we are over in
one area of any budget fund we talk
about this in our staff meetings we let
the department as though we have to move
some things around and Versa back in the
fall identified some things we need to
do to improve our cyber security. So we
did it and we
kind of talked to other departments
about shoring that up to move forward.
But information technology is another
call center that's little problematic
right now.
>> I can understand it.
>> It's always changing.
>> I'm going to go ahead and disclose that
since the proposed budget, we found the
need to add another 15,000 in each fund
for another service. Essentially, it
would be an offsite backup that's based.
So, if we were ever attacked, we've had
a secondary server essentially to just
prop it up and continue operating.
I'm sorry I didn't neglect a big one
that's hanging out there and that's
collective bargaining legislation. Um
the reason I dropped it is
the governor
did not sign the proposal by the general
assembly to allow collective bargaining
but looks like the general assembly sent
it back to her and said give her the
ultimatum of you have to veto it or sign
it if she signs it. My understanding was
her proposal was to kind of defer it for
a couple of years, which would be
helpful to us. If she signs it, we've
got to prepare for that process.
>> Well, and I wanted to follow up. That's
not going to become that's not going to
hit till FY28 or FY29 most likely as a
personnel cost. I have to admit it's
going to be a legal cost in FY28.
And so you got because frankly just
negotiating collective bargaining
agreements against monster labor lawyers
is difficult. Uh but that's something that's coming. And so
when you think ahead about the five-year
swing of how things go, we don't know
that people will unionize because
um frankly your employees are happy and
happy employees tend to either not to
unionize or if they do unionize it tends
to be a smooth, relatively easy and
reasonable CBA negotiation, but you
don't know that for sure. Um the other
thing is that large construction
contracts are going to be subject to
some prevailing wage provisions.
So we can expect the cost of
construction probably to go up a little
bit. Given the cost of construction over
the last two or three well really since
the beginning of co 21 maybe 2021
construction contractors have been
paying prevailing wage for the most part
for this region anyway. But we don't
know what wages are again going to do
over the next 5year period. And so as
you think about construction, you might
see it go up over the next five years to
be having to deal with prevailing wage
>> as well uh against other things. And the
reason why I mentioned that is is
uh we had I had another client who had
English construction do some
construction for them and for federal
grant reasons they needed to have
compliance with um prevailing wage and
that came into the deal pretty late in
the contract and it had almost no impact
on the costs because English was already
paying its people essentially prevailing
wage. But again, you don't know that
that's going to continue to be the case
over the next five years.
>> Yeah.
>> And I Mike, you said it very nicely.
There's there's can be a very negotiable
good side there and also a very rough
side. I I appalach where I work was
union. So I dealt with that my entire
career. So I've been in on union
grievances, uh, negotiations and all
that. So, some for the most part went
very smoothly and a lot of back and
forth, but there can be some that can be
rough. But, uh,
>> let me note, we're not flying completely
blind on this. Mr. Wagner actually in
his prior career had direct involvement
in a union situation.
>> Yeah.
>> With my HR certification and my
education, I've been trained. I know
what the process is. And I've had family
members who were in the mine workers
union. So process-wise, we
know what to expect, but the outcomes of
the process are
>> Can I just add that the IBW is already
here, so they're they're already
lurking. Let me put it that way.
>> We we're the missing piece,
>> right?
>> Yeah, I know that that has been said in
years back,
>> but but you're right. That's something
we've got to talk about and take
seriously because it's on the horizon,
you know.
>> Yeah. Next year's budget's going to be
complicated already, just FYI.
What else?
I'm going to have my little piece here
through each department. I'm going to
come from a different perspective, okay?
I'm going to in my own way challenge
each department head, okay? So, I don't
want anything to be taken personal, but
when I started out here, and this is the
way I I think and the way I view things.
I look at on page uh 37, the town
manager. Okay? And each department had a
department mission, mission, and the
department vision,
which is good.
You have the mission, but then you have
the vision. So the vision is a separate
thing. Sometimes they get blurred, but a
vision is something that should have a
measurement tool involved. You ought to
be able to measure that in some capacity
to say, "Okay, I can get this done in
two months, 3 months, 6 months, or long
term." It's kind of very similar to comp
plan where the comp plan has things laid
out to where they're going to be done in
this amount of time or two years, three
years, four years, whatever.
And and
I know from my experience, I had goals I
had from year to year, budget to budget,
review to review that I was expected to
get done or have a very good reason why
it wasn't done and monthto monthth also.
But what I'm saying is is in my view the department mission and of course I
think in ways of cars and engines the
mission is the engine in the vehicle
that runs it. The vision is the road
map. That's where you want to be or
where you want to go. But also needs a
driver to get it there. The car's just
not going to go by itself. So the
department heads and town manager, you
all are the drivers of this vision as to
where you want to go, what you want to
get done in your department. So as we go
through all this, I'm going to probably
point out some things. Um, and and I
look at the town manager again, page 37,
goals and objectives,
page 38, measurement tools right there
as to how he's going to measure this. So
I'm coming from that angle in this uh
discussion or this budget session
because
I'm a resultoriented person. I'll just
you've heard me say that and I think the
general public expects results. So we
have got to show results. A lot of
departments do but there are things that
stand out and we have to come up with a
way to get these done. And by putting
something on paper is great, but you got
to have measurement tools to get it
done. Like if I say to to to Ann, okay,
in three months, could you come back to
council and give an update on what
you've done? Sure. Or or or tell us why
you couldn't do it or just let Bart know
you're not ready, whatever. But it's
called in simple terms accountability.
You all are the leaders of this town.
Leadership is what it's about. So,
you've got to take that on. Take it by
the the horns, whatever you want to call
it, and move it forward. Make it happen.
So I I'm leaving you all with this aud
saying what have you done for me lately?
So again when I look at page 38 the the
town manager has put out a way as he's
what he's going to do how he's going to
measure it and what is expected of him.
Now, some things you're going to
achieve, some things you're not, but you
ought to be able to say why it was not.
Like in electric
department case, a lot of times it's
weather related. But each department
should have goals, objectives, and
measurement tools, a way to measure it
because that's what the citizens see.
That's what they either like or complain
about. I'm not seeing anything done like
electric rates. Well, we know how that
goes. But we're doing the best we can on
that. So, we just get beat up and go on.
We're used to it. But, nonetheless, I'm planting that seed. So, as we go
through different departments, I'm
probably going to discuss that in more
detail.
So, that's my little spiel.
>> And I agree with you 100%. We need to
have measurable goals so they know
somebody knows where they're going
because if we don't have goals,
>> there you can't measure them.
>> That's right. you know,
>> you you're going to go down the wrong
end dead end road. You don't know where
you're going.
>> Yeah.
>> It'd be like um you know, the electric
department saying keeping all of our
customers happy. You really can't
measure that. So, that would be
>> that we have to have something, you
know, that we can measure that we can
keep track of.
>> Can we can we measure that by how many
people come to the meetings and
complain?
>> Nobody shows up, everybody's happy,
right? or or or the number of complaints
compared to the total number of
customers.
>> Well, that would be Yeah, you can
measure it that way. You can measure
measurable way. I mean, it's probably
very
>> Yeah. And the way you'd write that goal
is decrease complaints by a certain
percentage or something like that.
>> And and you're spot on, Todd. And that
that's what I'm getting at. Those are
the things you work on to improve on.
Those are your goals that okay, once you
reach that, what's your next goal? You
keep on challenging yourself in your own
way.
>> So, that appreciate you saying that.
>> No, I I I really like what you said. I
think that's a great, you know,
>> Yeah. And it's it's in different things,
different departments, so it's going to
vary. But you all can talk amongst
yourselves and get ideas. Don't don't go
it alone. Don't ever go anything alone.
When you're stumped, call for help.
>> All right. What else?
» What yall want to say? Well, do you I
was going to say, do you want to start
going through what you were just talking
about? I mean, you're you're you've got
us at that section with the goals and
starting now.
>> Start there, page 37. Bart, uh,
>> tell us what's on your mind.
>> Mainly what we've been trying to do is
to be more transparent, more proactive,
and engage people, which sometimes leads
people to show up and yell at you guys,
but we we intend to continue that
effort. Um,
>> yeah.
From my perspective as manager, we
really want the citizens to fully
understand what they're paying for.
>> So to the point about satisfaction,
we know when people are upset, they show
up and they tell us for sure.
>> Rarely, it it has happened recently, but
not sometimes people will stop by the
offices and offer compliments, but the
vast majority of citizens we never hear
from at all. So that's we don't want to
assume things.
>> Yeah. Uh the assumption might be that
everybody's satisfied. Don't not going
to do that because we don't know.
>> Yeah. Get that word out of your
vocabulary.
>> You know, following up on my discussions
with you guys personally trying to do
what we can to improve communications
and coordination.
>> Yeah.
And and I totally agree and I
think all in all you all do a great job
in dealing with the public, the positive
and negative. But how how can that be
measured?
How do you measure those goals?
Well, again, we have our efforts pretty
well quantified here.
>> Uh, guess I'll tell you, I'm going to
rely on Woody to help me with some of
the data, and he does do that. He lets
me know some of the responses and
feedback.
>> Okay.
>> Um,
we can note the number of complaints
versus number of
>> Well, and
>> well, I I would think you would do that
per department would look at that,
correct?
>> Is the way I would look at it.
>> And again, we'll get to this, too. Yeah,
>> I'm certainly prepared to talk about
measures for each department. Yeah,
>> I know we'll get to it, but electric
>> one of the values of our electric
department is our response and
restoration time. Now, I think we need
to start measuring that if we can, but
I'm positive that
we are much quicker at restoring power
outages than anybody around
>> and we and and that's a focus. So,
>> yeah, I'm not going to deny. So anyway,
I'm jumping ahead a little bit, but
those kind of metrics are
>> Yeah, that's
>> yeah, there is and we'll get to that.
But yeah, I mean I I think of course we
had a meeting with you and gave you a
few marching orders, but at the same
time there there are a number of things
we we're to me we're always looking for
ways to improve, how can we do things
better, differently? And and some people
don't like this word change. We've got
to change to continue to improve. It's it you got to do it. Sorry.
>> That's one thing I to change is
happening. Um I didn't do a
presentation, but our demographics
are radically changing. A lot of that's
due to the phase 2 annexation, frankly.
But Census Bureau just published updated
figures that reflect our new boundaries
and we're quite a bit more affluent than
we were. Um, in terms of straight up
numbers, you know, we've got over 800
units of housing that have been approved
and are coming out of the ground.
Poverty rate decreased from 20% to 10%.
>> Yeah. Look at page 11. We got the
updated figures on there.
>> Yeah. So,
I guess following up on your points
change is here. I know it is.
>> It's really not a matter of what we
Well, we can we can feel about that any
way we want to, but it's here and we
probably
I'm sorry. We do need to change the way
we're doing things in our operations to
reflect
>> that. That's my whole point. Yes. Thank
you for saying that.
>> Sorry.
>> That's what I was trying to
get to. And that what the way we're
doing things may not always be the way
we continue to do things. So, you've got
to think out of the box at times and
look at what else is out there.
Technology, whatever we can tap into
there. And yes, it will come at a cost,
but uh it's it's out there.
Thank you.
>> I'm making myself a on my section, you
know, response tracking and some
quantification, further quantification.
What what kind of feed we're trying to
initiate reaching out, but we need to
quantify what we're hearing back and
report that to you. Well, and and one
thing we've heard a lot about all of us
have is that the communication process.
I mean, and I I know it's some people
just don't they want to be told
everything face to face, but there's a
lot of things we put out there like
Woody uh the the online things. It's
information out there if they want to
understand it, but some people just
don't want to go online and and read it.
So I think we we're doing what we can
outside of outside of mailing some
monthly letter which would be costly.
Okay, here's what we're doing which
>> of course the other thing you already
know is often times we have to tell
people things that they do not want to
hear.
>> And then that's all part of it.
>> That is all part of it. And and I I I
speak for myself. I think the rest of us
we're we're ready to take that heat if
we're being upfront, honest, and
transparent. But we always refer back to
the code and
>> that's right
>> objective reasons for that.
>> I I don't mind that a bit when when
we're doing
>> what's right. That's the key.
>> Well, okay. That was pretty interesting.
What else you got? Anything else?
>> Uh again, I'm sorry I kind of
interrupted you guys.
>> That's all right. Now, we'll we'll get
to the meat of it, but if y'all want to
just go through that's page 39, finance
treasures department, treasur's office,
excuse me.
Now, Ann's submission there and her
vision and again her goals, objectives,
performance measures. So, what say you
an
>> well and part of the our vision and
mission? I had a staff meeting with my
staff last year and we kind of all
developed this together. This is where
all of the department saw or envision
where we want to be in the future and
kind of our short-term mission.
>> And um same thing on some of our
performance measures and where we want
to be. We really want to be more
efficient because things are getting
harder. There's more accounting
standards coming down the pike. It's
getting more complicated and we're not
getting more staffing. So, we're trying
to be more efficient with what we have.
We're also trying to help with basically
collection rates. The more we can
collect, the less we have to write off,
the more efficient. So, we've done a lot
of focus in the recent years. I know we
um our deputy treasurer just got her
designation as a master governmental
deputy treasurer.
>> And then we're sending other staff to
different um classes like delinquent
collections and bankruptcy. So, we're
working really hard to train staff on
how to collect and how to do it
appropriately and with empathy.
And then the audit, as I said earlier,
is taking more and more time as more
standards come down. So, we're doing
everything we can to keep it on time and
out with the public with pretty limited
number of staff. The audit, the audit is
mostly done by the assistant finance
director and myself. So, it's about two
accountants really working through most
of the audit. Mhm.
>> But we have a lot of performance
measures here that focus on the town's
comp plan. And so we've focused on
financial stability and health through
these performance measures and how we
can assist the town with seeing are we
meeting that metric.
>> Right. So So number two on there doesn't
look like it's in good shape, the
electric fund.
>> Yeah. I mean, we're going down in
reserves. We're still at 91 days. Cash
on hand is our target for fiscal year
27. Industry standard is 90. So you're
right on target.
>> Yeah. So if we go below that then we're
in Yeah.
>> trouble.
>> And then the debt service was the other
one. So will that go up if if we approve
this budget that's going to increase. Do
you know what it's going to be?
>> It's not going to be the 5% that we've
had in the past. I think it's going to
be closer to about 2 or 3%.
>> Okay.
So, but the question on the debt days of
cash on hand and the electric fund, is
that directly related to decisions
council made to
>> That's true.
>> That's our fault.
>> Oh, yeah. No,
>> I'm just saying though.
>> Yeah. No, it is.
>> It's not fault. It's just the
circumstance. But yeah,
>> we've made that we've made that
conscious decision
>> and and that's a good point, Dave. in
that we have to understand
it what decisions we make have a great
impact on other things. they make it go
or slow it down.
>> And and that's where the tax question is
going to come up because from what I
understand what John said, if we approve
the PCA increase, it's going to be 24
$24 per 10,000. Correct. 1,000
kilowatts.
>> Yes.
>> So 24%
>> $24
>> correct
>> per month per kil per per 10,000
>> 1,00 kilowatt.
>> So if somebody uses 2,000 kilowatt,
>> they're going to end up having their
bill increase $50 a month.
basically
>> to round up.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's that's a pretty big
>> and every and probably I don't know
what's the average is it average 2,000
kilowatts across the our customers or is
it less?
>> It's uh it's around a thousand but
>> it really depends on the season. In the
winter time it's much higher.
>> Yeah.
>> Spring and fall it's low.
>> But across the state a thousand is the
standard we measure against everybody
else.
>> Yeah. That's where most utilities
measure around a thousand,
>> right?
>> How long has that standard been in
effect?
>> Long as I can remember. So, so maybe
that needs to be updated.
>> Most of the bills that I'm seeing going
out are higher than a thousand. I'd say
that for our customers, it's more like
12 to,300 K.
>> Yeah, I was going to say mine's always
over a,000.
>> Yeah,
>> yours is well over a,000.
>> Turn off the power,000.
So, so that's where that's where I think
our challenge to our citizens is going
to come. If we do anything differently,
we're already going to if we if we go
with this,
>> then we're going to we're going to
challenge our citizens with increasing
their power, their monthly rates by
what, you know, if you 50 times 12
months, you got $600 a year that they're
going to be spending on electricity
instead of on taxes. But if we don't do
it, then our potential uh cash on hand
is going to drop. and we kind of revert
back
>> to where we have been. Exactly. Yeah.
>> So, it's going to be a tough decision,
but
>> yeah,
>> and that's where I lean in and honestly
if if we can't um be in the positive on
the if we can't have that going up or
staying equal, do we stay in the
electric business?
>> You're you're going down that road that
we have
>> I'm ahead of I'm ahead. Yeah. Okay. So,
gentlemen, I did want to remind you that
by by statute, we are required in a
long-term manner to have what we call uh
1.0 debt coverage of our revenues versus
our power purchase agreements, which is
to say we can't sell you electric for
less less than we paid for it. And
that's that's by state law. So, and if
you wind up falling below for a few
months here and there, as long as you
make it up on the other side here and
there, it's not a problem. But the long
run debt coverage is going to be 1.0.
>> So, we actually pay off our debt in May
and we will not have any debt in the
electric fund starting May 31st.
>> But that covenant is still part of our
PPAs.
>> Ah,
>> so this year, next year. So we are debt
free made this year this month. Okay.
>> However, what Mike is saying is it's
still in our purchase power agreements.
It constitutes debt.
>> So So say that again. So I didn't quite
understand what you were.
>> So 1.0 debt coverage for a revenue debt
and PPAs are not constitutional debt,
but they're debt for the purposes of the
statutes of uh 15.2 1133.
Um
so it provides that on a ongoing basis
you need to collect as much money for
selling electricity as you are paying
for that electricity and that's both
your O andM costs which are O andM costs
are and our direct debt costs which are
things like Snowden. All right, that's a
direct operating cost that we have
that's within our budget. Plus any PPA
costs needs to be you need to have a
matchup of 1.0 between how much you're
collecting and how much you're paying um
to operate the fund. which is to say
that you can't be subsidizing your fund
out of tax your electric fund out of tax
money or in the long term even drawing
down your reserves because that's
considered to be
um pledged to the PPA holders. Um and again that's not even something
where we can ne negotiate with the with
the people we're purchasing power from.
That's something the general assembly's
told us we got to do.
>> Yeah. And you're right. I I think that
there were some technicalities or
directives from Richmond that we had
would have to go back, you know,
>> and obviously there are special
situations, right? If you had a raft of
logs hit Snowden and you had to spend a
bajillion dollars to try to fix it. That
is what it is. But
>> yeah,
>> long run normal operations, you got to
have the 1.0 ratio between what you
collect and what you pay.
>> And that's what the PCA does.
>> Yes. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, we So, we're stuck really
matching with paying what the BCA says
>> in in the long run. Again, you want to
delay it two months, you want to phase
it in over 6 months, whatever you want
to do, but in the long run,
>> and I don't mean the 5year long run. I
mean the 12 month long run, you need to
make sure you got a 1.0 ratio there.
>> And then we will have options that we
can talk about.
>> Yeah.
>> Maybe just add a little bit there, Mike.
We pay certain grid costs which are not
which are in the PCA but are not part of
that covenant. Okay. And they're
significant. They're $800,000 a month.
So I don't think we have any trouble
covering that. It's just how do you
define it? And those grid costs are not
part of the purchase power agreements.
>> Okay. So we do have some room there.
Well, I I suspect that those would be
categorized into the on andm costs that
you're required to have 1.0 coverage on
as well.
>> Well, that would include our base rate
as well. It doesn't right is all
collections
>> all collections basically. The
enterprise fund needs to be balanced is
essentially what I'm telling you.
>> Yes. And and we are essentially, you
know, there may be some differences
between what the PCA recovers and what
base rates recover. When you put it all
together, we're good. that we want to
have the goal of having the PCA cover
all power cost, but uh there's wiggle
room between those two because no,
nobody's perfect in setting the base
rate versus the PCA. And remember, we
just had a whole new rate design in
October. So, we're really real, you
know, getting working our way through
that now. But I do agree in the long
term, we got to cover our power costs.
So, so have we not? So, to from my
limited knowledge, it looks like we
haven't been doing that over the past
three years. If we go from 151 days down
to 91 days,
>> and part of that is what triggered the
rate study.
>> Okay.
>> So, because we were not covering it, we
had an independent rate consultant come
in to design a rate schedule that was
supposed to be a 1.0 or above.
>> That's right. And remember in the past
couple three or four or five years we've
been saying okay we're going to eat part
of that. Yes
>> rather than pass it along to customers
because we're trying to be as sensitive
to customer cost as possible. So I mean
that's a conscious decision that we
made. Yeah.
>> We just can't do it anymore.
>> Yeah. And that's where that's where I
that's where I'm just bringing it up
because that's where the challenge is.
We're going to be raising our rates up
again
>> and we're going to be looking at this
again in what? October, November of this
year, right?
>> Uh November 1st is when the PCA gets
reviewed.
>> Correct.
>> So, uh there is there is some leeway
within the wording of the PCA to give
you some leeway on how to pass the cost
along. Uh but we'll get to that some.
>> And then what I'm what I'm trying to say
is this is the gift that keeps on
giving.
>> Yeah.
>> So, get used to it. But yeah, the only
reason I'm bringing it up is because
it's it's going to be it's we've got all
these other challenges, but this is
another challenge for our citizens we
need to think about.
>> Exactly. Right.
>> Yeah.
>> Um and I was wondering the last one on page uh 40 is maintain a collection
rate of over 90%. On personal property
and electric bills
>> doing that.
>> We are. Yes. I'm very proud.
>> I see. Yeah. 99%.
>> Yeah. They're doing an amazing job.
>> Good job.
>> Thank you. Yeah,
>> maybe next maybe now it should be raised
to 95%.
>> That is true.
>> Industry standard is normally 90 and
that's where
um of course I I'll say the same thing
probably with electric. Y'all really do
seriously need to consider
>> and it's vision. It's vision on the
vision side
metering.
>> Yes,
>> that will be a big game changer. This will take care of some of your
problems.
It's costly. Yes. But uh you'll love it.
>> I agree.
>> Yeah.
>> So, what else you have for us? Anything
else?
>> Before we move on, I I just a note that
both town manager and and our director
of finances said um that obviously
personnel don't have enough staff to do
what we need to do. Uh it's going to be
always an issue. So, I'm just going to
bring it back up again because I'll be
keeping this drum about volunteers.
>> I mean, there's I mean, you know, Bart
mentioned a minute ago about if we had
to do the postage meter. Well, that
doesn't take a rocket scientist to do
run postage through. I mean, if we So,
my my
a goal would be to try to vision be to
try to get folks to think more on
volunteers. I mean, your statistics here
are are great. 91% high school
graduates, 28% that are have bachelors,
about 60% are in the labor force, that
probably means about 40% of the folks
are retired. Um, so if we would take a
look at departments or take a look at
what volunteers could do and maybe just
come up with, I hate to say job
description. I mean, once that person
gets in there and and doing things like
administrative stuff or or whatever that
I'll be out there, you really don't need
to supervise them that much. I know. So,
the supervisions on the front end, but
it pays dividends on the long run. So,
that's just my my two cents on trying to
get help staffing.
>> You're exactly right, uh, Dave, and that
you get the right people, right
positions, once you get them trained,
they need very little supervision. And I've seen Ann's group Ann has a very
good group. Uh they know what they're
doing. They go at it and when they have
a problem or a question, they come to
you. But they know what they're doing.
But yeah, you're right. But then some
don't work out and
>> Oh, no. It's just same way.
>> It's the same hiring employees. That's
right. Some don't say.
>> Good deal. Good comments.
And you we we'll we'll come back to the
financial side. Don't get me wrong. I'm
just
>> Oh, I know.
>> Yeah. No, I just
>> Yeah.
>> Since both of them have had that
comment, I wanted to just kind
>> Yeah.
>> Um page 42,
uh information technology. U
>> yeah, Daryl's not with Daryl's the ops
guy. The budget stuff basically Ann and
I kind of cover for him.
Going back to we're saying the mandates
and the needs for security and the fact
that software is not being supported and
there's planned obsolescence. I mean
we're drinking from the fire hose on
several issues there and operationally
well I'll tell you we're frankly
struggling to handle that. We've got two
full full-time employees. We're also
contracting out with Magna 5 to provide
a safety net, but those safety net
activities are almost becoming as
prevalent as the day-to-day stuff. So,
>> well, information technology is a one of
those things that I I of course I'm not
involved as much as it once was, but you
buy a computer now, a laptop, it's
obsolete within what, one to two years.
So, I mean, things are changing that
quick on the technology side. And I I
hesitate to mention this because frankly
I'm a little superstitious. Um
I've got colleagues who have dealt with
ransomware issues and I just don't ever
want to have to do that.
>> But frankly, you're going to pay one way
or the other.
>> So that's that's it.
>> I mean we have big projects coming like
a Microsoft transition to the
cloud-based software. We very large
project our phone system
>> and always updates.
>> Yep. Well, our phone system will be out
of license. I think in that meeting they
said in the next three years. Yeah.
>> And they don't sell any more phones.
>> So he's he's got a lot of issues he's
dealing with now with that.
>> And that's that's one of those things
you have no choice.
>> You've got to look at other options and it's costly.
>> And the option there is we're looking at
the mobile phones that the town owns and
issues. So we
>> we're not we're not just throwing
problems at you without solutions
proposed behind.
>> Yeah.
because the mobile phones could be
as much of a liability too if they're if
they're connected to the internet and
they can they can click on a link
that'll actually yeah it's dangerous
>> but you do um and I from when I was here
there's really good training that the
town provides to its employees so that
they're not
>> to all of us we all see it also the
>> and we do monitor that and we test
everybody and
>> yes
>> and we send a monthly report on our pass
and failure rate
>> I mean our IT staff is constantly going
out of their way to try to trick us
>> and and I've seen that. Yeah, you're
right. And but but that's and but that's
the way it is when you get a email that
looks legit but it says warning don't
open the thing. You know
>> the other thing operationally too is
with the the software systems we have in
place. They age out. They become less
functional. We're encountering that.
we've encountered that with the electric
funer recently where our online payment
system had a glitch that we had to
resolve. Um the other thing too is these
systems are not cheap and once we're
invested in them it's hard well
>> you can't just pull out I mean you can't
get your money back I guess is what I'm
trying to say. So
>> in any service discussion particularly
electric we're committed to upgrades
that are ongoing. So if we decided to
come to a completely different direction
in terms of service that's going to
impact it as well.
>> Oh yeah that's right. And it's kind of a process for individuals and everyone
you have to learn the basics of what it
is. I mean it may be very similar to
what you were using but it's still
different in its own way.
One thing I meant to ask you, Ann,
earlier the uh the credit card for
electric bills.
>> Are we there or where are we on that?
>> So, we received a proposal with our new
software where we basically have two
options. You can either absorb credit
card fees and that would be no charge to
our customers. I estimate that would be
around $250,000 a year to do that. The
other option is that we could pass all
fees to our customer and it would be at
our existing credit card rates which
they've told us is 3.95% or $2.50
minimum charge.
>> So those are the two options associated
with it. The benefit of absorbing fees
is that you get a lower negotiated rate
that's not offered if you pass the fee
along. What that means is that when you
swipe your card, instead of it being
around a 1% charge, it would be around a
95 cent per 95 cent per transaction
charge, but that's only available if you
choose to absorb the fee.
>> Because I'm thinking, okay, if I'm in
another state for a month,
>> and I realize, oh, my electric bill is
due on the 10th of each month, how can I
pay it? Could I call and put it on a
credit card or
>> so today or in the future?
>> Right now.
you can call. We do have an
IVR system to do that. It's a $4.95 per
transaction charge today.
>> But it would cost me more to be
reconnected. Right.
>> Yes. Well, let's add it all to your
bill. Yeah.
>> I don't want that. But but yeah, that's
what I was wondering if I'm out of state
for a month or longer.
>> Yes. Yes.
>> And I realized, oh, I I know when my
electric bills due.
>> Can I call and pay?
>> You can. You can't call into our staff
because we don't have the security on
our phones to do that, but we do have a
phone number that takes payments for us.
>> Well, I could call John and say, "John,
I need a favor. Go pay it. I'll
reimburse you."
>> And I would do that for you. But the
other option you have, Mr. Mayor, is you
just put it in the mail. It cost you 50
cents.
One thing we really want to push too is
that we offer an in-house a program. And
if you sign up for that with avoided
check, we run that in here and we really
want to push that. It's a free service
we offer.
>> But if I'm in another state, I'm not
getting my mail down there. I'm kind of
monitoring what's going on. Somebody may
be telling me, you have this bill due on
the 10th and today's the 9th.
>> And also my staff, we don't have an
automated system. So they are calling in
house to people on the disconnect list
and it it does take a lot of time but we
found it really helps.
>> Yeah. And that's another long-term
vision.
>> Yeah.
>> So I have a question. So you know a lot
of places now where you can go sign in
to the account online. Are we exploring
that possibility down the road or do we
have the technology to do that yet?
>> So we do have the technology now where
you can go online and register your
account. I will say that our system is
what I would call a legacy system. We're
trying to upgrade it. We've started that
project. We plan to go live with a new
software in April of next year. The new
software will be like our tax software.
So, it's modern, up-to-date,
cloud-based, and I think it'll be a much
better customer experience. It'll also
offer a lot of things we don't have
today. So, one of those is disconnects.
I mentioned staff is picking up the
phone and calling. We'll do something
called call campaigns. So, we'll tell it
what to say and it'll send out automated
messages to everybody on the list. And
we can do that a couple times. It'll
send emails, text messages. So, it's
going to be a much better service than
what we have today.
>> I mean, because I I go online. I've
already set up for automatic pay and I
can go online. I did the e billill. So,
I get the email notice saying my bill's
this and
>> yeah,
>> all it's all seen was
>> good. Thank you. Yeah, that's kind of
what we're Yeah, that's good.
>> All right, information technology. I see
Daryl had his goals, objectives, vision
statement, and he's put on page 43, ways
to measure it and so forth. So, you
know, that's again, that's what I like
to see. I mean, you've got that vision
and you're going uh down that road.
You've got your where you want to drive
that vehicle. You got the driver driving
it and the your destination. So
good.
Any any questions on that? Comments.
All right. Police department.
>> What say you, Jim?
>> You're taking care of criminals.
Correct.
>> Lock them up. Book them down.
>> Customer service.
>> There you go.
But I should not leave the keys in my
car at night. Right.
>> Common sense.
>> We're basically operate still operating
off a three-year strategic plan that I
have not had a chance to. We've achieved
a lot of those goals, but uh discussions
with command staff. We're going to start
doing yearly smart goals and make our
strategic plan a little bigger
um where we can actually do measurable
goals every year. We do not have our 27
goals yet.
>> 27 goals yet. But I have found in past
agencies I've worked for, if you do
that, you're you're able to be more
responsive and a little more agile in
how you plan your next year's work.
>> Yeah, I saw where you put two to be
determined. I just wondered how long
that would take. But you all you're
working on those now. Well, in the in the strategic plan that was
created before I came, we're still uh
you know, we're up about the middle of
that three-year plan, but uh we're going
to we're going to go in a new direction.
Uh a lot of that we're going to continue
to pursue because it's good stuff. a lot
of good stuff in there, but I found that
a lot of it is uh I found in the
policing world a lot of times we'll do things like uh we're going to
reduce DUI crashes for instance, but we
only play a small part in controlling
that things like that. What we can do
for instance is increase our DUI special
controls and things like that.
There's a few things that need to be
tweaked and remapped.
>> And again, probably broken down year to
year rather than a threeyear block.
>> I would think some things just what from
the outside looking in like crime
trends. What kind of crime is going on
in this area and what kind of drugs are
being run through here? I know we've
heard that in years gone by. What I I
don't know what the main drug of
substance abuse is now. Yeah, that's
funny how that over years it cycles
>> through and
>> something will be the flavor of the day.
For instance, crack, take the crack for
instance, big in the 80s, coming back
again.
>> Yeah.
>> And then all the designer drills that
are coming in from overseas. It's hard
to keep up with.
>> Yeah. Hopefully some of that is being
cut down, but it's still going to find
its way through no matter what what is
done. Um and you of course response
times to calls. I mean there there are
little things you could monitor how long
it takes to get
>> Yes. When I looked at the response times
to calls, it's really kind of hard to
quantify that and even the type of
calls. Uh you might have a for instance,
you might have a call about alarm going
off in business and it may be the fact
that you know uh
>> you know just a false alarm or you might
have a burglary which takes may take
hundreds of man hours to solve. So it's hard to quantify a lot of a lot of
the calls and even the response times
come in different tiers. You know,
there's a difference between an
emergency call and a dog and and I call
that a dog. For instance, I I'll tell
you this little funny story. It wasn't
as funny then, but it's funny now. back in my meter reading days back the
downtown Lynburg area. Threequarters of
those meters were in those buildings
down in the basement. So we had keys to
a lot of those buildings when they were
not in service or when we had to get in
to check the meter. And unbeknown to me,
I went in one building. It was a
restaurant. Just went on front door. We
had a key. It was not open. Think of
this little buzzer going off. Think what
is that little noise there? So I go
down, check the meter, and come back up.
In front door is a couple of police
there. Said,
>> "Yeah,
>> what are you doing?" I said, "Oh, I'm
out. Go. I'm just checking the meter."
Okay. But it had alerted the police to
come and see who's in that building. So
it it works.
But uh those those things are good. Uh I
put my hands up. Don't arrest me.
>> That started your criminal career.
started beforehand. That's what made the
long face back.
But that sounds good. Jim, do you have
anything else to add or
>> No, obviously I'm here to answer any
specific questions, but
>> what do y'all have?
>> I got two questions. So, we fully
staffed now. Everything we completely
fully staffed.
>> Fully staffed. We have three that still
need another five weeks in the academy
and 12 weeks of FTO. And then uh good
lord will be fully staffed with 241.
>> Cool. And then here it says right under
the authorized positions it says
$100,000 CIP request for improvements at
Li Lake Park facility and what new
improvements are we looking at to
upgrade?
>> I don't know exactly how that got in
there. I do have plans, long-term plans
for some improvements we'd like to do up
there as far as like
an actual locker room, washer, dryer,
things like that.
>> And then maybe split up for a couple
more offices up there, but yeah, there's
>> I certainly have a longterm wish list on
that.
>> And speaking of that, of course, that
was a temporary approach to offset the
need for a new police department.
Temporary in government terms often
spans many years.
Give me one second. I'll try to pull
that request.
>> I want to ask a quick question, mayor,
for you that I mean, right now we're
going through the You're just going
through visions and stuff. We'll go
through the budget separately.
>> Correct. It was at the bottom of the
I cl
I'm curious as to
>> I got I'm going to beat up Jim for a
little bit.
>> We can we can talk about that later.
That's fine.
>> We We'll get to that once I get through
this.
It just popped out because you look
through all the other stuff.
>> That's I'm fine. I just want to make
sure that we
>> I'm just kind of understanding the
goals, visions, and and as I said
earlier, who's driving the car?
>> I do have that request pulled up if you
would like. It has continued
improvements to the support services
building to include the knowledge to
paint renovate office area by adding Oh,
it just disappeared. Um, give me one
second.
Okay.
>> All right.
>> Renovate office area by adding a POD
partition or wall. Renovate interior of
building and building locker, shower
rooms or gym decontamination if and when
needed.
» That is the request.
>> I think chief does a great job. I think
with police presence on both side of
town, I think it really helps a lot to
keep what's going on in town. So,
>> you really focus on just being in
neighborhoods.
>> Yep. I'm always reminding the guys that
just somebody seeing you drive down the
street provides a lot of comfort and
safety feel.
>> The the presence goes a long way.
>> You're right.
>> Anything else?
>> All right. Page 46. Fire department.
Stacy, what you got for us?
Um kind of along the same terms, you
know, 26 27 goals and objectives to kind
of to be determined more or less, uh
it's a little bit
more difficult for us to kind of portray
that being a volunteer system. But as
far as like outside of anything normal
than, you know, providing the best
service uh to the community, to the town
residents, as well as our response area
and the county, um we're
really getting into a uh position where
a lot of our tools, equipment, and stuff
like that, it's time to start really
getting with the times more.
>> So, we've really looked into that. We
have I got quite a few
>> uh members that committees and stuff
looking to just let's start, you know,
work toward what do we need? Let's give
people the time as far as like
extrication tools, hand tools, anything,
hose, nozzles, stuff like that. What can
we do to better ourselves to make things
a lot faster? Fires are burning a lot.
Fires are burning faster. They're
burning hotter. We're already behind the
eightball when we get the call. So, they
don't burn like we used to. Even in much
area 16 years ago, a lot of these older
ones, we had a little bit more time to
get there. So we're looking at more
equipment that's lightweight, more
efficient, but still puts out the output
that is needed, especially back. So
again, just working towards that goals
and objectives.
As far as performance measures, really
just continuing to improve morale, uh,
mental health and, uh, overall volunteer
commitment and participation really.
It's out there that we answer the calls
that we put it out there. We're
answering a lot more calls outside of
our first dude. That is not our I'm not
going to say it's not our
responsibility, but we are not the first
company. That's how those companies are
not
So we are
>> next in line more or less. We're right
there on home to be burning 30 minutes
from here. So 25 to 30 minute response
time for us and we're the first ones on
scene. Our members retired but
>> it's it's invaluable what they're
putting out there. So what they're doing
>> well it's called dedication. I mean it
when something like that happens that's
what they're dedicated to do. I mean
It's more and more frequent. We see it
uh more parts of the county than others.
We know when a call is dispatched to a
certain area, that company's more than
likely not going to get out. But if they
do, they're not going to have sufficient
manpower to handle what what was at
stake. So that's that's one of my
personal performance measures is
continuing to provide that service for
everyone.
>> How many volunteers do you have
>> right now? at the roster set to right
around 55 56. All of which are trained
to at least the minimum fire one
firefighter one level except for four.
Uh three of those are in a current
firefighter one class which they're
actually on their first uh training and
burn today. Uh we had one that started
just after one started.
Um we've had a big influx in
applications um membership people want
to do it.
>> Um so we're constantly monitoring those
interviewing set through those really
just kind of just paint because some
people get in they sound great when they
interview but once when they get there
our house culture on the streets
actually start to run these calls and
they decide it's not enough and that's
perfectly fine. That is perfectly fine.
um trying to find that balance between
is this right for you are we the right
fit for you
» is the morale pretty good
>> I believe so if not straight to my face
» they're doing a good job of it huh
>> they are yeah it's great uh culture is there um like I said it's
hard We're running more calls than we
ever have. We're It's already what is it
the 1st of May and we're destined to
reach over,400 calls this year for
service. So,
it's going to be crazy.
>> You know, I say this all the time, but
that fire department there, the Beth
Fire Department has a long rich history
of volunteering and commitment and
dedication. I mean, it stands it's it
that probably goes a long way in getting
people uh to come there and volunteer. I
mean, it's has a history, as you just
said, Stacy, of going 30 minutes to a a
fire that's really not in your your
geographic territory, but no one else
has responded. I mean, that's that says
a lot about the fire department.
>> We have to change our entire run. Like,
for just for notes, but that requires us
to change our entire run. Instead of
taking the lighter out that would be
first out on that, you know, we're
having to provide both the piece of the
wagon, the tanker, and the ladder truck
with a sufficient amount of manower,
which double-edged sword. We're taking
them volunteers away from the town.
>> Yeah.
>> Nine times out of 10 at the same time,
>> right?
>> But
more members step up.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I think you're doing a great job
and we will continue to support support
the fire department any way we can.
Yes. You mentioned that uh sometimes you
guys get get tired and stuff and and I
think from parenting to public service,
we're all tired, you know, that type
stuff. But do do you think you were you
were staffed enough to, you know,
minimize fatigue and and that kind of
stuff?
>> Yeah, I believe so. We have a and I was
naive when I first got in. I might not
have seen it. You know, I was one of
those young guys. I ran every single
call. I didn't have kids or anything
like that. Now we've trans like it's
moved more towards the the big core
group of us. We do have young kids and
we're trying to make softball games and
school dances and plays and on top of
that calls and then we're up most of our
calls. We get a few during the day but
most of them in the evenings and so out
we still got to provide for our family
at the same time. So yeah, they're tired
but we make sure that there's a relief
factor there. Um, if I get there and I
know that they've been up all night,
like go take a nap. Like, I need you at
your best
>> at 2 a.m. and at 2:00 p.m., you know, I
mean, so go take that nap. Everything
else is covered. They know their
expectations. They know it's clean,
everything ready to go.
I need to be ready.
>> So, I mean, it's there. Um, you always
have ones that I'm tired.
That's okay.
We have a good we have a good balance.
» I have a question. How many permits EMTs
do you have?
>> Without knowing the actual number off
the top of my head, I would say
75% of our department is minimal EMT
basic nationally registered certified.
Um, I would say we probably have more
paramedics on the roster than Bedford
County Fire and Rescue has
staff.
And then just they run 500 5 to 600
trucks a day
for 24 hours
a lot.
>> No, no, you get a lot of EMS calls. So,
it takes up a lot of more time there.
>> The first responder base and that's
another I mean, you know, we try to
continue to, you know, people sign up to
ride a fire truck, you know, and we do
provide a first responder. Um, your
closest met trucks coming from Fair
Island
1221
intersection. It takes them 30 minutes
to get here. Somebody's either falling
in the driveway and it's 20° outside.
We're going to get up, answer that.
We're not only automatic.
>> We're going to step up. My guys know to
do what's right. Um,
Unfortunately, like cardiac arrest or
something like that, we be first on
scene
grants and stuff like that. We try to
get the best
we
guys wants and stuff in the station, but
we're not.
I hope we don't
understand what all that
>> is.
We do provide that person
too.
>> You you serve the public well.
>> You sure?
>> Yes.
>> Anything else?
>> I just just a quick general question. I
mean, you obviously provide excellent
service to the community. How does the
community support you? How's how's the
annual fundraiser? Has it been has
donations increased and everything?
>> I would say I don't know if they've
increased. um they've been they've been
pretty steady uh throughout the year. Uh
and we're very fortunate. We do not have
our community supports us very well
through our annual mailout. Um we're not
like other departments that have to do
like uh stewards just at their hand for
100 years and their chief complaints
about it every year but you're in
trouble that
or spaghetti dinner or chicken. We don't
have we're very fortunate that um and a
lot of our pay like
contributors donators they actually come
from either that state or not they don't
live in this area because they own homes
and stuff here. So we make sure that we put them fingers out there and stuff.
>> Now not everybody can do it.
Times are tough, but
>> they're there.
>> Okay,
>> they're call.
>> That's cool. Thanks.
>> Good.
>> Appreciate it, S.
>> Thank you.
>> All right. Public works.
Tom, come on down and speak to us or
stay there and speak to us.
>> I know you got little goals and
performance measures to be determined.
Just tell us what's going on.
>> Then you'll hear from Tom Tuesday night
again anyway.
>> Oh, that's true.
Yeah.
>> Don't divulge any secrets.
» Now, um the main thing about mine is I'm
kind of I got a number of questions that
need answer answering, you know, where
we're headed with the transfer station,
where we're headed with trash
collection. Uh those are two big things
and because that rolls over into
equipment needs that I that I have and
that I have requested uh going forward.
So, there's big budget requests that
probably have to be funded. Uh so those
are my biggest concerns. Um I do have a
list, you know, like I said, equipment
is an issue, transportation,
um adherence to the fees, that was a
concern that I had. been I deal a lot
with the uh parks and the special events
and um
quite often people just expect it to be
done
>> but cost
>> right right
>> you know so that that's one of the
things uh
>> Tom's the Tom's the other duties
assigned department pretty much
>> it kind of rolls down heels that's never
mind
but
>> but that is one thing that I think we
are talking about discussing at some
Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's just it, you know, I
I'm all about, you know, community
service and that kind of thing, but
>> where how far Yeah, I know.
>> Nothing's screaming. Yes. No matter
what.
>> Nothing. Yeah. No matter what is said,
you're exactly right.
>> And then, uh, one of my other
concerns goes along with what what Ann
was saying about, um, feed collection.
Um, and I had spoken to her, you know, a
while ago and but one of the things we
want to work on, I'd really like to take
the feed collection from Cheryl from the
if we continue with transportation and
from cemeteries, you know, out of the
individual's hands. Where I come from,
you know, been doing this 30 years, no
one touched the money except for the
finance department. So,
>> right,
>> it just has to change, you know, it's a
>> I forget it's a legal term. So,
>> it's a risk management issue.
>> Yeah, it's risk management and it's, you
know, the chain of who has the money in
their hand kind of.
>> Are we looking into that or
>> Oh, yes.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> And you know, as you all may or may not
be aware, I have a terminated employee
because he was stealing
>> from the transfer station.
So that was kind of a part and that was
a couple months ago. So
>> yeah, got to do what you got to
>> one operation that's still collecting
cash outside of finance cemetery. If the
transfer station closes, then there is
no cash collection there, but the
cemetery is still collecting cash and
checks.
>> Okay.
>> But that's but like I said, uh the main my main concern is where we're
headed with in sanitation.
>> Yes.
And and how many employees do you have?
>> Uh counting myself 23.
>> 23. Are you full staff?
>> No, sir.
>> You're short.
>> Yeah, I'm short.
>> Okay. All right. Um
>> but but that was a discussion between
Bart and I that that I agreed to hold
off until at a later time.
>> Correct.
>> I mean, we're we're able we're able to do what's need to be done, but but it
is
constant. There's not, unfortunately,
there's not a lot of room for
extracurricular. And I don't mean fun
stuff. I mean knee-jerk reaction like,
hey, I need somebody here now kind of
thing. It's
>> right.
>> It's, you know, it's balancing.
>> Yeah.
>> And that that hiring market is
particularly challenging right now.
>> Yeah.
>> I can imagine. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Any other questions,
» Tom? I will tell you I do enjoy visiting
your employees. They they don't mind
speaking up and that's what I
appreciate. I mean last year they were
more talkative than this year but they
still still like to talk but that's why
I come to listen to them and hear hear
what's on their mind.
>> I mean I can't snap my finger and change
everything but we can address some
issues. Well, cool. Concern.
>> You know, you know, you know when you
just asked Stacy, you know, how how's
the
morale? And I was thinking about that
for myself. I'm like, how am I going to
answer if he asked me that? It depends
on the date. Really?
>> Well, it depends on the bonuses.
» Yeah, it depends on the date. But I
think for but you know they it's human
nature to to
complain or you know
>> whatever you know I don't want to put
anything out but you know but yet they
steady
>> and they're there and
>> that's the key.
>> So there's got to be something to it. So
you know some of them it's just their
nature to negative negative negative.
Yeah.
>> And uh you know I'm going on my second
year here. Amazing. And uh but I'm
figuring the guys out, you know.
>> Yeah. It takes time and
>> some of them you're just never that's as you said it's it's human
nature and everybody has a bad day.
>> Yes, sir. It's all
>> for whatever reason.
>> Y
>> but Tom, you you're doing a good job.
Just keep it up.
>> Thank you so much.
>> Yeah. Do y'all have anything?
>> And you'll hear more from me on Tuesday.
>> Good deal.
>> All right. Next is community economic
development. So Mary stepped out.
>> So we'll we'll
>> Well, but but let's go ahead and talk. I
don't want to hold you up because I have
some familiarity with this. Haven't done
it before.
>> Okay.
>> Mary stepped out for an event on the
Hillside CDBG project. So actually it's
good.
>> I feel good about the fact she's not
here. And the reason she's not she will
be back.
>> Trash pickup.
>> But uh what I was going to tell you is
well now CG and I talked about this.
>> The department heads know what they're
doing and can report. So
basically my approach today was to let
them deal with you directly and then
fill in the gaps if they need to.
>> Yeah.
>> So if Mary were here,
>> she'd be doing it. But I just just want
to let you know, you see all the list of
things that that department takes care
of.
>> The most obvious thing we're confronting
is the growth and development that
frankly we've never seen before. So you
know, the process for all that before it
gets to you guys for approval, it's
vetted and reviewed by well, Mary. I
mean, she does that. She negotiates with
the developers based on the zoning
ordinance and what we want to see and
tries to get them to present something
that's palatable. And, you know,
frankly, she can't force that. So, often
times there's probably going to be a
subdivision coming to you within a
couple of months that's going to feature
elements of things that you're going to
have to talk about when it gets to you.
But, she's already tried to get those
things in place. And I know that because
we did it before.
>> Is that a subdivision or is that a
resoning? It's a resoning, but it's a
resoning because
>> Let me fill in that for you.
>> Well, you know, you go ahead.
Process. This is all about process.
>> Yeah, it's all about process. The
general assembly basically forced us
into a straight jacket with respect to
subdivisions and site plans. Um, was
last year and we got ourselves into line
on that. But the principal thing was
that
historically subdivision plats and site
plans have gone to council in Bedford.
And we were certainly not unique that
way. That was I don't want to say it was
the majority way to do things, but it
was not unusual kind of in the west of
Charlottesville region of the universe.
Uh but the general assembly
in their infinite wisdom decreed that needs to be undertaken by a staff
member and that council neither council
nor the planning commission can have the
final decision on those and it shortens
the timelines for approval such that it
would be
extremely difficult for the council to
do review even if you wanted to. So, uh,
that was per state law that was moved to
being a staff, uh, function, which means
that your role in the process is really
limited to the legislative actions of
doing resonings and actions on
conditional use permits. So, you're not
looking at the final product, you're
looking at the parameters that the final
product's going to have to fit into.
>> Okay. Thank you. Now, sometimes there
are cases where we have by right zoning.
Let me mention that too. In Virginia and
probably most places in the United
States, if you have practice zoning,
there's got to be something that you are
allowed to do by right, which means
basically we might have to document a
permit for that. But if you're zoned
single family and you meet all the
regulations, zoning ordinance, we have
to allow you to build that house.
again comprehensive plan and the zoning
ordinance revisions we've done we have
to do the best we can to anticipate what
the community standards are and
establish that but somebody enforces
that and in development terms that's
Mary I I'm going to refer back to mayor
so the planning and zoning
administration stuff particularly with
what we're seeing now is pretty
intensive
which is a good thing we're seeing
growth we we say we want that now
sometimes there are cases and this
there's going to be a case coming to you
soon where there's a property zoned R1
and there are certain lot sizes that are
allowed by right but developer says they
want to get slightly smaller lots so
they're going to request a reasonzoning
to an appropriate category that allows
that that's where they have to go
through planning commission come to you
guys there's a public hearing process
it's somewhat negotiable but we also
have to make sure that we manage
everybody's rights
>> and I can tell you process-wise
having done it myself you meet with the
developer They tell you their plan, you
review it, and in light of what we've
established and the changes they're
proposing, you try to give them some
guidance without overstepping.
Because the other thing that changed
since I started as planning director 26
years ago was
we used to make recommendations. Well,
those can kind of get you in some
trouble legally, particularly say staff
recommends approval of something and
then it doesn't go through. So about the
only thing Mary can do is tell people,
you know, this might be a problem or
that might be a problem and then you've
seen it before in other processes.
Sometimes things come to you that you
have to turn down because they didn't
follow the advice
>> and
>> but all she can do is provide the
advice.
>> Correct.
>> But she has to make that decision. Well,
she she does make
>> she does she manages that liability for
like
>> well I mean I'm
think all all department has do a great
job of I know Mary has a lot on her
plate and and then I know there's areas that uh stand out but uh
it's a whole lot she does that people
don't know about don't see
>> and I'm just talking about the planning
and zoning part right now I mean we
>> if you approve something then it has to
be built the subdivision has to be we
have to calculate assurityity to make
sure the the things they're obligated to
provide that we're going to take over
happen. Mary manages that.
>> Then on the zoning side, she manages the
individual zoning permits for each unit.
That's and again, you have to
>> on the other side of that, there's the
building office, which zoning says
you're allowed to do a building is how
you do it. And there's a separate set of
codes. It's got to be safe. So, we have
two people doing that now managing. We
know 800 units that have been approved
that can happen anytime.
So that in and of itself in most places,
zoning and building are full-time
positions in and of themselves. So I
know I've heard a lot of chatter and you
guys have too about what does Mary do.
That's one thing she does. That's just
one hat she wears. In addition, the
authorities and commissions that she
serves as staff to, of course, planning
commission, I mentioned housing
authority is actively engaged. The fact
Mary's not here right now because
they're doing some work to rehabilitate
houses up.
and they can do that because they have
the authority to do that. Council
cooperates, but Mary's a sad person for
that as well. Economic development
authority, they're they're on the on the
ground and running right now. Uh the
middle school project, they were
instrumental in working out the
performance agreement, managing that,
leveraging grants. Right now they're
marketing WedoA as a
metal working education site with a
steel
>> Mary's a staff person to that as well.
So
there are a lot of metrics that and I'll talk to individual but in this
document I'll tell you we need to
provide some of those are um in
economical vacancy rates downtown.
That's a metric we can report.
>> The other thing is we have an enterprise
zone which we've had for years. That's a
that's an incentive program geared
towards distressed communities.
The good news is we're probably not
eligible for that anymore. So the next
time it's up for renewal, actually the
program may go away, but there are a lot
of metrics involved in that report that
we can peel out and put here. Um,
>> so what what will take its place or will
anything?
>> Nothing because we're not economically
distressed anymore. Congratulations.
That's the bad news.
>> We're doing better. We would some of the
um
some of the incentive programs that are
tied to enterprise zone we might have
authority to do on our own and we may
decide that we want to continue some of
those things on a local basis um or on a
more targeted basis. But I think
probably we can talk about that once we
become more sure that that program is
actually going to go away.
>> Yeah. And uh the next renewal cycle is
pretty far off. I want to say 20 34 but
don't quote me on that.
>> Uh but also we can provide you with
metrics about a number of permits and
inspections code enforcement also
anything that's not a criminal offense
Jeremy and Daniel handle that mostly
grass complaints which
are more fun than you would expect them
to be. But
those are the kind of things again I'm just kind of covering that to keep
you guys on track. I know Woody
>> if you have any questions of me I'll try
to answer them but when Mary gets back
you can
>> Well I know we brought brought Woody on or on
>> Yeah. Thank you.
>> Let me mention that. So Woody who we
have under contract right now is a
consultant who does well he's
broadcasting this
>> Yeah.
>> for us right now. And I guess you hear
me back there. In fact, Woody, if you
want to come out of the Batcave there
and talk about what you're as of July
1st as part of this budget, Woody will
become an employee of the town. His
title will be marketing and
communications director. We have that
description drafted and ready to go.
He'll continue to do what he's doing for
us at about the same rate just with the
benefits that town employees get. I'll
also tell you though, Woody provides a
lot of services to the community with
his business media squatch. We've talked
to him about that that and we've I've
had a few businesses come to me and
express concern about him coming to work
for town and no longer providing those
services.
We're going to manage that through our
own processes, through outside
employment, things like that. But my
direction to Woody is to continue to
provide those services to the business
as long as they don't interfere with our
needs and his role as an employee.
>> And I'm on the hook for managing that.
But really, as a you know, kind of
concession to the community, Woody
provides a lot of value to people beyond
us and we want to allow him to continue
to do that. and the degree to which
that's scaled down as he ramps up things
with the town in a little matter.
>> Well, that's a skill set that we'll
benefit from.
>> Also, you had talked in October about
hiring a downtown
marketing person. Woody volunteered to
take on those resources and because I'm
chief and you pay me to be chief, I'm
letting him do it. So, we've we've
incorporated uh the downtown action
strategy as part of that job
description.
>> All I can say is turn him loose. Okay.
>> Turn him loose.
>> And Woody, if you want to come out and
say anything, come on out.
He's smart. He's just going to stay
inside.
He's a man by the
>> It's on a little delay.
» I was asking Jim maybe wake him up, but
yeah, it's like a 10sec delay. So,
yeah. You got any questions? I mean,
it's it's a great transition for me,
though, because I've worked for
um I've worked with businesses for the
last four or five years as a studio and
had a lot of community leaders,
community businesses, community
organizations come through. So, I'm
really I don't know. I feel I feel
blessed and ahead of the game because
I've already got relationships built
that I can work with, you know, for
downtown and for an official marketing
communications capacity.
>> So, it's it's I think with the town
growing as much as it is and Mart and I
talked about it for a couple years, this
it's necessary and the fact that I have
already built relationships is actually
a plus. And then with the downtown part,
having experience in downtown Lynburg
and stuff like that, um, It's just it's
a win-win for me.
>> I will say this to you, Woody, and I
don't know if Bart passed this on. Of
course, I my office when I was working
was in Lynchburg. So, I saw a lot of
change and 85 flood changed the lower
basin forever, but it rebuilt came up to
what it is now. And you you're very
familiar with that as to how it got
started in the 90s and what it is today.
And once he told me you knew people that
were involved in that and all that, I
thought, put him to work. Yeah,
>> because that's the one I refer to all
the time, all the time. And that after
the 85 flood, most people thought the
lower basin should just be bulldozed
into the James River. There was no hope.
But they took those old warehouses,
converted them into apartments and all
that. It is just amazing what they have
done. I mean, and where where I used to
go in, we as I said earlier, we had the
keys to all those vacant buildings
>> and we go in and meet on the first
floor, second floor, third floor. So,
you know, old billings I like to explore
and and and look at them, which didn't
do any harm, but at the same time, you
ought to wonder what could ever be done.
Well, the 85 flood did that for them to
where it's just amazing. And that that
with that mindset, you can look at what
does downtown Bedford need, what can be
done, and what will work.
>> So, as I just said, turn your loose.
>> Yeah. They didn't get question.
>> I have a crush on enterprise. Yeah, I
remember when we done that,
>> but I I couldn't remember we was getting
any kind of funding or anything like
that.
>> Basically, it just opens doors to two
specific grants that I'll mention. One
is a real property investment grant, but
that you have to spend $100,000 to get
the benefit of that from the state, and
the other is the job creation grant. you
have for any job you create above the
prevailing market rate I think you get
some money for training and things like
that. So that's but the other thing is
it also authorizes us to wave certain
fees. So within the enterprise zone we
wave some zoning permit fees sign permit
things like that. So those are the
incentives are they're basically
authorized and then when people invested
a certain amount it does open up other
things. I was just trying to remember I
couldn't remember because we talked
about it numbers of years ago
>> and um I know Mary's got the numbers on
how many incentives we funded through
that.
>> Okay.
>> And any more questions if y'all have to
know Mary when she gets back we can ask
them. But uh any
>> not just so the marketing communications
that include just uh overseeing events
and stuff in town as well?
yeah, to the ex, but I do want to
get your direction on events today based
on our current policies. Now, I will
tell you the administration of events
right now goes through Tom.
>> Okay.
>> Um, as far as direct assistance with
marketing and promotion of things like
centerfest that we know about Woody
would do that and I think we've written
that in the job description, but but if
we haven't, we will.
>> But I do do want you all to talk about
the way we manage special events.
>> Sure.
>> Because it is a budget issue.
>> Yeah.
And there are things done today like the
website. Woody maintains the website for
the town and Facebook page and social
media that includes all of that as well.
>> And just in case anybody asked you, the
contract we have with Woody, we did bid
out. So the other bid we received was
three times what we're Sorry Woody, this
offends you. Three times what we're
paying Woody currently. So we do know
what the market is for what we're doing.
>> So what is cheap labor?
>> All All of us are, but we know that. We
we're here for bigger reasons.
>> What do you what he likes to do?
>> That's right.
>> That's that's a better way to put it.
>> So, what you're asking us is to talk
about the special events because of the
cost we're paying for
>> recovery. Well, our fee I'll tell
>> our fees won't cover the cost of what
we're spending.
>> Our fee currently recovers 20% the way
it's written. Yeah. And then oftentimes
we wave the fees and we get
>> and then law enfor all those law
enforcement costs all the different
costs we have in
>> and then my other thought was do we
since we have Woody do we manage them on
our own and do our own management of
them that way. I mean because I think he
could do as much as some of the
organizations we have managing possibly
I know it's putting a lot of woody but
>> lot cheaper. I have a lot I haven't
Well, I don't know it be any cheaper
>> cuz the others work the others we pay a
little bit of a fee to.
>> Yeah. Well, let me just since you
brought up Centerfest will be a good
example. The Central Virginia Business
Coalition
>> does that and it's a pretty involved
event and they inherited it from Main
Street which is
>> and we do heavily we do not charge a fee
for that. That's also in our special
events policy. And we also are a sponsor
of the Central Virginia Business
Coalition. I think 5,000 or 7500 7500
last.
>> Thank you. So
yeah, we're getting an event for $7,500,
but we're probably paying 15 to 20,000.
So the net is about a $7,500 cost.
Now, to the point, could Woody do
everything that Heather Alto does with
Central Virginia? I don't know, and I
don't want to
>> I mean, if you want to respond to that,
you can, but my initial response is it's
more than one person.
>> It's it's a big they do a great job.
Yeah. update
>> and and
it's it's a it's a lot of wrangling, but
I think that part of what I would like
to do is is just for the town to have a
bigger presence in those events to then
market the town and to I be more present
for the community to come through
because Centerfest is a fantastic
opportunity for the town and and just
that it takes place in the town is good,
but the fact that we could be more
involved and and in a way have a person
directly working with Heather her team
and and building the town's image and
achieve better.
>> Well, maybe working with the businesses
to
>> capitalize on that as well to give them
advice about staying open or
participating directly or selling.
>> So, so we do receive So, we the you're
talk the 20,000 does that come from food
tax or we're
>> do we get about the expense?
>> No, I'm talking about do we get any fun?
Do we get food?
>> What's the benefit of those events?
Well, we get meals tax and food trucks
and things like that. It's not a
substantial amount.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, we're Yeah. So, we're really
Yeah. So, it's more of a marketing side
is what we really need to use it for.
>> I would agree with that.
>> Yeah.
>> But we're going to talk more about that.
>> And and there are certain events that
we've identified as the institutions of
themselves. the fireworks on July 3rd
which we pay for centerfest and then the first week first Saturday in
December there's the Christmas parade
there's the Bedford YMCA 5K and there's
been the tree lighting thing and all of
those are things that we do not charge
fees for because they are legacy events
from either Main Street andor our
recreation department or other things
that we think the community has come to
expect the town to provide
>> and and I will say it's kind of like uh
centerfest. Heather and her group does a
great job on the parade. Also, they get
it organized and it's pretty tedious. I
mean, when you have 100 plus uh contest
or people who want to be in the parade
and you get them numbered and and when I
was in it this year, this last year,
last December, she told me exactly where
I needed to be, behind, what person and
all that. I mean, she had it down to a
tea. So she and
what good luck on that?
>> No, she they do a great job.
>> Yeah, they do a great job. I think
there's just some things that we'd have
to think good and long about if we
wanted to pass them to someone else.
>> And again, not on I understand at least
one of you is involved in a parade event
coming up. And that's
>> quite an exercise in hurting cats, isn't
it?
>> Yes, it is.
>> All right. Anything else? But we'll talk
to John on electric and we'll take a
break. So, John, what you got for us?
What I can see your no goals or no
measurements, but uh tell us what's
going on.
>> Well, obviously our number one priority
is keeping the power on and trying to do
that as at a reasonable price or the
lowest price we can do it. Also, uh
safety of our employees is is paramount
to us.
>> Yes.
>> Uh I always tell our guys, the most
important thing you're going to do today
is come home safely tonight.
Um so uh that's where we're going.
Obviously we're trying to focus on our
power cost uh which has uh grown over
the past but we've taken some steps. The
first one being the purchase from PTOAC
to uh hedge a greater portion of our
cost. So we know what those costs are
going to be. They will be fixed once we
go forward. So they're not going to be
increasing.
We also have a a whole slate of
short-term purchases which BART is going
to approve or has approved. I don't know
where it stands, but we uh that will
help uh hedge our future cost for the
next year. Those are all short-term p
purchases of one or two or three months.
They're not long-term, but we look at
the market continually. Uh I feel like
sometimes I'm standing in quicksand
because the market changes so much, not
only from day to day, but hour to hour.
There's all sorts of world events. You
know, this thing going on with the
Straight of Hormuz. How does that affect
the town of Bedford? Well, it pushes
prices up, pushes market prices up, it
pushes diesel fuel cost up, all those
things. So, we have a whole range of
things that impact our budget, but we
have a limited control over those
things. So, it's very hard to say, okay,
uh, one of your goals should be to
reduce power cost. Well, if I controlled
all the factors that impact power costs,
I'd be comfortable with that. But I do
not control those things. Those are
things that just come at us. And one
thing I want to point out in this budget
is we've always paid a certain portion
of administration,
uh, treasury, finance, all those things.
But that was always buried in in the
actual accounts. this year. I think it's
a good idea that uh that um Ann has
broken that out separately so you see it
now laid out clearly what those are. Uh
and I think that this year our
allocation has probably increased a
little bit. Um so that's another area of
our budget where all these things come
at us, but we don't control that. Okay?
Now, I'm not saying anybody's making
imprudent decisions. I'm just saying
that everything you see in our budget is
not under our control.
>> Yeah. I think we got we we have learned
that.
>> Right. Right. But we're working
diligently to to make our energy supply
sustainable uh as low as cost as
possible and to try and further insulate
against those events like we had last
January and February where we had a mini
uh polar vortex where we had those cold temperatures for such a long time.
Uh this year we're going to be have a
greater portion of our energy hedged so
we'll be immune to those effects. So, as
I look down the road, I don't see power
costs increasing in a step way the way
they have in the past, like when our
capacity cost went up by 500%. I don't
see that happening in the future. So,
>> so it's a little more stabilization,
>> a little bit more stabilization, greater
percentage for energy hedging. So, as a
result of that, and it's not really
reflected in this budget, we'll probably
be selling more energy on the market
because we're we're hedging a higher
percent to reduce our risk. Okay?
>> So, that means we'll probably have a
little excess energy to sell from time
to time. But we work diligently with AMP
and all the planning people there, all
the weather forecasting folks. And by
the way, we subscribe to a high level
weather uh long-term forecasting service
which I can make available to you folks
because they give us regular
presentations on what's going on this
summer. They're expecting slightly
warmer than normal temperatures and
slightly drier than normal.
>> Okay.
>> So, what does that do for us?
>> Wow.
>> More air conditioning, probably more
fires as a result of that.
uh more air conditioning loads and less
water for the hydro plants.
So, that's probably not a good thing.
>> Uh but uh I'd be happy to share all that
information with you if you find it
interesting.
>> How about more wind?
>> I wish. I wish. Well, Stacey, he doesn't
want more wind because that makes the
fires worse.
>> That flames the fires,
>> right? Well, that brings up an
interesting point which we haven't
talked about in the past. In California,
for example, where they've had all those
wildfires over the past few years, many
of them have been caused by electrical
failures.
You know, a power line gets shorted out,
it sparks, it starts a wildfire. Well,
in California now, they're making the
utilities pay for those costs.
We should check with our insurance that
we have some protection against
wildfires
>> going forward. It hasn't come to that
point here in Virginia yet, but since
Virginia is becoming California East,
>> I wouldn't be surprised if it hits us at
some point. So, we want to make sure we
have some insurance against that. Stacy,
you probably know more about this than
I, but
>> Well, we had the recent events up
towards Big Island, but you're
>> guess make sure the fire hydrants work.
>> And while we're in, we have started our
hydrant season and all that, but
unfortunately where this happens, there
aren't any hydrants. Oh, that's right.
>> Yeah. So, we just had one and it was a
luckily wasn't the town but out the way.
Not that way. Sure. Not sorry. Forestry
>> put a line around it. So, go back out
there the next day forestry. But it does
happen and we're not we're not immune to
it.
>> It's here.
>> Yeah. It can happen anywhere.
>> Yep. So with drier conditions, uh,
probably have a pretty healthy fire
season coming
>> and, uh, unfortunately,
so that's basically what I want to say.
As Bart said, we concentrate on our
response times. And that's one thing we
do get complimented from our customers
is they make a call, we're there within
15, 20 minutes, and they find that very
comforting. Uh and I think our outage
management system has gone a long way to
improve our response times because now
uh after hours for example the duty
person will get that information
immediately. He doesn't have to wait for
what happens at dispatch or anything
like that. He gets that information
immediately and he can roll as soon as
he gets it. So that's been a big help
for us is is our outage management
system.
uh we do kind of have our own internal
IT because we have our own SCADA system
which is completely separate from the
outside world uh and that's for security
purposes but there will be more uh
internet security cyber security uh
requirements coming down to us and
probably to the town in general but
definitely to us as an electric utility.
So um and then within PJM which is Mr.
Mayor you know what PJM is. Yeah, all
too well.
>> Um, it it's kind of the overseer of of
the grid in our region. There's all
sorts of turmoil there now. We just
don't know what's going to happen.
>> And, uh, prices are kind of topped out
for the next year or two, but after
that, you know, we don't know what's
going to happen. So, all we can do is be
as prepared as we can. At the same time,
we're trying to move forward with
several projects. One of those being
expanded capacity at Snowden, which is
going to take a long time. It's going to
be a long-term project. We've got some
tobacco money to address that. Um the
other is working with AMP on more local
generation here in town, peaking units
like we have on Arm Street. Uh of course
we're always looking at things like
battery storage. Um I'm hoping that some
genius like Elon Musk comes up with a
new battery system that changes the
world.
Um but um so we're constantly looking at
options time. It takes time to evaluate
those options and it's even slower to
implement them. You hear the train now.
Let me give you an example. Yesterday we
were scheduled uh with Norfolk Southern
to make a crossing uh over the railroad
to get to the Wenoa property. Uh this
has been in the works for six months at
least. So, there's a process you go
through to permit uh to get time to work
around the railroad and get across the
railroad.
It requires a flagger. Believe it or
not, the railroad has flaggers. Anyway,
we scheduled all this through the
railroad, got all our permits, paid all
our fees. We show up there yesterday
morning at 9:00. The flaggers show up
and say, "You're not going to be able to
get across today." What? What do you
mean? We got a permit. It says right
here we get across. No, there was a
derailment in West Virginia and now
we're going to have more trains coming
through here than normal. You have no
time to get across. So we had marshaled
all of our people there. We had to set
up everything and also some people from
Norolk Southern showed up said, "Hey,
what are you doing? You can't be here."
Well, wait a second. We have a permit
says we can cross today. Can't do it
because of the derailment in West
Virginia. So it would have been nice if
they told you that.
>> It would have been nice, but that's not
the way the railroad works. You know,
they have their own set of their own
world that they operate in.
>> I understand that.
>> And everybody that's not affiliated with
the railroad is you're you're
insignificant.
>> So we had two crews there. We had all
these people, all this equipment, and we
kind of wasted our morning waiting to
get across the railroad, which we never
got the clearance to do.
>> So that's still a project to be done
>> to be done. and we're going to have to
pay again for another set of permits and
to try and coordinate with the
railroads. Finally, the railroad the the
workers said to us, "You know what? It's
best if you do this on a Saturday or
Sunday. You might get across them." But
the people in the office in Atlanta,
Georgia, no, they don't want you to come
on a Saturday or Sunday because they
have to schedule somebody on overtime to
be there with you.
>> And so do you.
>> And so do we. So, I don't know when
we'll get it. We'll keep trying, but
that's the that's the world we live in.
>> It's the nature of the beast.
>> We don't have control of all of these
factors.
>> That's right. Now, most of the time, we
feel like a punching bag. We We do our
best. We follow the rules, but it
doesn't always work out the way we hope.
>> Thank you, John. Any questions?
I mean, we'll come back tomorrow. Y'all
good? Thank you, John. I appreciate it.
And your your employees are good, too.
even though they don't talk as much as
Tomms, but they're still good, but
they're a dedicated bunch. And by being
around them a number of times, they know
what they're doing. And and and they
strike me again as a bunch who they know
their job. They know what has to be
done. They just go out and do it. But
let me just add one thing about
employees. I we have a great group of
guys now. We have a bunch of younger
guys going through the apprentice
program and working their way through to
get experience. We just lost another
fellow to Salem. Oh.
>> So, since I've been here, we've lost 10%
of our workforce to Salem.
>> Are you fully staffed now or how? Not
obviously.
>> I think we have two slots open.
>> A a lineman.
>> Uh the guy that left was an apprentice.
>> Okay.
>> We'd like to hire an A-lineman, but we
just we just have no luck hiring a
lineman.
>> What What are your numbers fully
staffed?
>> 25 or 26?
>> 25. Okay.
>> Yeah, I think we have one slot on the
tree crew and one apprentice or a a any
a lineman if we could hire them, but we
just have been hiring apprentices.
>> Okay.
>> So, we are
>> we did just have somebody join us who
took a pay cut to come here. Now,
>> obviously those results are not typical,
but I think it does speak to the fact
that John's doing something right.
>> Yeah.
I I think as far as morale goes,
it's improved greatly since I came here
11 years ago. uh when I got here they
were ready to kill each other uh which
is not probably it's not unusual within
a lineman culture but uh I think we're
we've got a much better morale now and uh you know our our basic thing is
of course salaries are always an issue
for us and um every one of those guys
could go someplace else and make more
money
>> but they're not doing it
>> they're not doing it
>> right
>> well I mean you're right and I've said
this a number of times Utility workers
have their own language and their own
way of doing things and their own
attitude. So, you have to understand
that.
>> But, but they work together.
>> Yes, they do.
>> We appreciate what you're doing, John.
>> Thank you.
>> All right, let's take a 10-minute break,
come back, we'll get into the meat of
the thing, and I think Deborah will
probably have a look for us. All right,
go stretch out some.
Guess
he learned to stir the pot.
Everybody's back. Let's get going again.
Uh,
>> it was it was asked of me, do we want to
look at community agency funding on page
54? So, whatever comment you all have,
let's take a look at it. I think that's
pretty simple.
>> That's that's my thought.
>> Yes.
>> Any any comments?
>> Because we have access don't mean that
everybody else. I think that's pretty
much need.
I appreciate that.
>> Are we okay with that?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> That's a grant anyway.
>> Yes, it is. Okay. From this point on,
you all whatever you all have on your
plate to talk about, let let it go.
or do you want to go through each
category
CIP and so forth or how do you'all want
to do this?
>> I said let's just go through the
categories we be jumping around
everything
>> I'm with you. Okay.
Then
the next is financials.
Who's doing that? Ann
Well, I mean, it's, you know, we kind of
we just did the third quarter report to
you current year. We the biggest
adjustment is uh where we're recording
these expenses more in the electric
fund.
Yeah, that section has trends, graphs,
it discusses processes. It's got a chart
in there about the different general
ledger codes and who is associated with
those codes like department wise. Um,
this section really is to help you
understand the general ledger reports
that are at the back of the budget.
>> It talks about the enterprise funds and
all that.
So y'all, what questions do you have on
this one?
>> Well,
hey, on page page 64, then I just had a
quick question of why like under the
general fund undeid fund balance, there
was a a big jump in the 22 to 23.
>> I was just wondering what that
>> Yeah, that's really when we used
American Rescue Plan Act funding to
recover some of our public safety
expenses.
>> All righty.
Take 65
the under business type activity
self-sufficiency fund says that uh the solid waste fund is at 89%. So will
that look that's going to look better
this year?
>> Correct. Yes. This is based on the last
audited financial statement.
>> So based on what we've done it'll
probably be closer to 100% or closer to
it. I think in 26 it's still going to be
slightly under 100% because we're still
making changes, but as of the budget
that we're putting forward in 27, it
should be at 100%. Cool. But
» I do want to make a comment on that
graph on page 65 for solid waste
unrestricted net position. You'll see
that we had a rather large negative
balance. What's included in that is
unfunded pension liabilities. So that's
DRS. Also, when we close the landfill,
we had a very large payable recorded to
the general fund. And so we used cash to
basically pay that off and say, you know
what, it's always time you no longer owe
us this liability. And so that is why
that increased greatly in 23.
>> Okay.
But we'll I mean, but the trend will stay the same in the out
years. I mean, those stuff will start to
be negative.
>> It will as long as that's on what we
call a full acral basis of accounting
because we're seeing those net pension
liabilities out there that are rather
large. And that's BRS. When you hear me
say pension, it's the retirement system.
» I did like the note in on page 66, your
long range financial planning for I did
like the note down toward the last
paragraph about the everinccreasing
inflation in both personnel. operating
costs while revenues are not growing at
the same inflationary rate.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we're spending more than coming in.
>> Absolutely.
>> I know we had that discussion in a
department meeting with the new
construction coming on off independence
and what that'll bring in in real estate
taxes. And when you calculate what our
28 cents brings in, it's so much smaller
than you imagine. Very little revenue
compared to growth.
Yeah, that's another topic for
discussion at some point
» and this Okay, so I'm sorry. Sorry, I'm
doing all the time. You guys will jump
in.
>> That's why we're here.
>> Okay, but the on the where it says debt,
no additional debt is included in the
forecast. That's I mean I guess that's
general fund stuff, but we are including
looking at debt for the capital
improvement, right?
>> That's right. So, it's included in
contingency because we don't know what
that is yet. We kind of have four of
those numbers on what the annual payment
is and we've set it in contingency for
that.
>> Okay.
» So, do you think on page 67 current real
estate tax said we we won't give it you
don't anticipate a huge increase then
based on how about the reassessment? You
think we'll get a little bump there? I'm
hoping we will because every time we do
a reassessment it does go up. I mean the
last two times it's gone up about 20,000
a year. So I'm thinking that we'll get
another bump like that again.
>> The last one did that include when the
real estate
values went sky high or
>> we had a we had a blend going on that
year because we had the boundary
adjustment and we had a reassessment.
>> Okay. So we had two factors that
contributed. You'll see real estate
taxes went up greatly
>> from fiscal year 23 to 24.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> I just saying as you as you're talking
about taxes in here and I'll flip back
to the page 14 comparing us to other
communities.
Ours is
probably behind uh Lynchburg and Venton.
Ours is probably one of the higher ones.
And so I was kind of how are the other
ones
performing as compared? Yeah. How are
they keeping them so low? Yeah. And and
the other thing that I noticed on that
same graph,
our town's percent or contributions to
the total tax town and county, uh it
seems to be a little higher than what
the other towns are are paying for the
are charging for the taxes. So,
>> it just depends. Every locality has
their own flavor I will say of how they
charge revenues to pay for services and
I think it depends on what the community
can afford to pay and what where they
were willing to pay it. So ours has been
on real estate tax primarily because we
were a city and when we reverted we kept
a stable rate with the county and so we
said okay our citizens are used to
paying this real estate tax and we want
to keep it that way and so that's where
the reversion had us at a higher rate
than those towns.
>> Now there's other things that other
towns are charging that we are not that
could blend. So, for example, our
neighbors in Benton and Rocky Mountain
have a license fee that we are not
charging. That brings in around $120,000
a year.
>> I mean, there's other things that they
are charging, but we are not like
machinery tools. And the issue is is
that those localities are used to pay
it. There's a certain steadiness
involved in it. And so, whenever you
talk about change,
>> you're changing what people are paying,
what they're used to paying. So in
Bedford's case, I think we have had a
higher real estate tax because our our
residents were used to paying that
combined total rate as a city and so
it's just kind of continued. But there
are other ways you could become more
competitive like a vehicle license fee.
You'll see many towns charge that. We
don't. And then machinery and tools,
many towns charge that. We do not. And
then the business license, we have much
lower rates than most of our neighbors.
Although you have to go to each
individual uh locality to see their
rates because there's such a difference
how people are charging and what
I hope that helps. The other thing is um
our next door neighbor, the town of
Benton, they have a really low tax rate,
but they also have special legislation
that allows them to get full percentage
of sales tax from the county. I believe
they're the only town in the state of
Virginia that gets that. But their sales
tax coming in is more than double what
we were receiving. They get about a
million a year in from the county. That
balances their budget.
>> But don't they also pay tax to Reno
County?
>> Mhm.
>> Yes.
>> Which is what, a dollar and something?
>> 340.
>> Yes.
So yeah.
So, I mean, I I heard I've heard people
talk about how low that tax rate is, but
and I don't get into any back and forth.
I'm thinking it's just like the town, we
pay the county tax also.
>> So, they're doing that around the
county.
>> Correct. That's right.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. And that's where when I was
talking about real estate tax, I was
comparing the town and the county
together.
>> Yeah.
>> For all of them. And that's where town
of Venton actually is the highest it
looks like. M
>> Oh, other than Ron Oak City, right,
>> and Salem,
>> but the out of the towns, Benton was the
highest.
>> Yeah.
>> All right.
So, meal tits. Um, we got I remember I
mentioned this assess a while back about
looking into we trending that we making
money on that or we need to look into
that. is still overall down. We're
hoping and deals is reopening. So, we're
hoping that that will help growth that
we're going to see next month, but at
the moment, the last time I checked it,
we're still forecasting to be about
$100,000 less than last year.
» We're sitting at 5.5% meal tax now.
>> The average is six, some is four, um,
but the average is about six through the
whole meal taxes. So, I didn't know we
half we find that next month. Do we need
to look into that or what else?
>> And I will say uh half a percent on our
meals tax today is around 170 to
$180,000
a year.
» And and that may be something we wait
until a year from now and then look at
because that could be some of the
recovery cost the 750,000.
you kind of weigh what is usually done
the previous year
>> to see if we need to raise it to to make
up or Yeah,
>> because we may it may increase just like
Ann said with that with the be opening
back up and some others.
>> And I hear that's doing pretty good.
>> Mhm.
» So, are we going to
So, we going to talk about revenue
later? I mean, I don't want to be
jumping around. I kind of if we can go
through expenses and stuff, but then
talk about revenue, that'd be fine. But
>> well, when we go to the budget, I think
we'll the revenues are the first part of
the budget.
>> Okay.
Well, I mean, when I talk when I
mean revenue, I mean
>> taxes,
>> additional revenue taxes.
>> Increasing taxes. Well, like I said, the
challenge for me with increasing taxes,
we're going to start charging people $25
to $50 more a month for electric bills
now.
got to be careful.
>> Yeah. I mean,
>> I know there's a balance, but there's
also a balance of we're we're losing
money and not bringing enough in and at
some point the town's not going to be
>> Well, I agree. I I don't disagree. I I
see it with both sections with the Yeah.
>> theory that the weather had an impact on
tax this year.
>> No, I understand what you're saying.
That's why I was comparing, you know.
>> Well, that's why I'm saying I think we
need to we we need to have discussion
and then have maybe have a road map of
what we're going to do because we're
losing 750,000 in a couple of years.
We're going to,
>> you know, and there's other things
coming down the pike. And it's just if
we don't do something now and we wait
till later to put a plan in place, it's
just going to be harder later on to make
up and what did it be now? So anyway,
>> well, I mean, we can talk about that
taxes and fees or
>> Yeah, that'd be great.
>> Yeah.
>> And what I was looking at, I was looking
at like, you know, the meal tax or
lodging tax and stuff like that because,
you know,
I don't want to hurt our citizens or
anything like that, but I want to catch
that revenue that if we had visitors or
we had people coming through the town or
coming off the peaks or coming visit DJ
or come visit our little town, that
would be revenue that we could catch
right there.
and process and then that won't be
directly to
um personal property or nothing like
that. That's what I was thinking.
>> Okay.
>> So, one thing I would recommend is if
you do want to do a meals tax change to
give about a three months notice for
vendors so they have time to change all
of their um merchant processing devices
and update the rate.
» I know it does take time.
I don't think I if we made a decision.
» All right. What else?
» Are we okay on the rest of this or just
sorry but question?
>> Keep it going.
>> The same with the mill tax. Just the
comment here says that the current rate
set at 5 a.5% with excess collections
over 5% designated spent solely for
economic development per town code. So
if we happen to raise let's just say the
mill tax is 6%. Does that mean one 1%
goes to the economic development?
>> It's up to you. So it's designated by
town ordinance that half% goes to
economic development. So you have full
control over that. You could also say
the half a percent would no longer go to
economic development. You just have to
adjust the
>> we Yeah, we could we can actually say
that that half a percent would go to a a
future to a an account to hold for to
cover for the 750,000.
>> All right.
>> Cuz because Mary and the economic
development authority get that half
percent.
>> Yeah. I don't I don't just I just didn't
know if it was automatic that if we you
know if it said it goes Yeah.
>> that automatic 1% extra would go after
>> just that just that five go.
>> Yeah. I just I I agree with keeping the
5% definitely or half a percent or
something.
>> Well, why are we on taxes?
All these homebased businesses, they
don't pay any taxes when they do the
stuff out of their house, right?
>> Well, they do apply for business license
and they have a business license tax.
So, we do have that, but it's only the
application fee unless they generate
over the $250,000 a year.
>> So, it depends on how much they're
generating out of their home,
>> but they don't pay taxes like we do,
like I do.
>> If it's a food, if it's food, they
should, shouldn't they?
>> Correct. If they're serving food to eat
on premise, if they're serving it to go
away, then probably not. it would just
be a retail sale.
» So if they're delivering food or meals,
I'm just curious then they wouldn't have
to pay the meal tax if somebody's
>> I have to look actually, you know, it
depends. So one instance is when
somebody who wants to go around town
with a cart of prepackaged factory
foods.
>> So on that one, they're itinerant
vendor, peddler, perishable. They don't
pay anything other than our fees for
doing so. Now, if you do have like an at
home bakery, that's probably what you're
talking about. That's prepared food. So,
they would pay
>> or b or somebody to prepare meals and
delivered meals.
>> Correct.
>> If it's packaged food for sale off
premises, like factory package, then we
do not charge a meals tax on that.
Was
that the kind of business you were
talking about or
>> Well, yeah, because I mean so many
homebased businesses
now, way more than it was before. I
mean, because when you go through there,
there's like tons of people doing stuff
out of their house now. And if they're
not paying taxes like we are,
>> then that's a lot of tax loss. Well,
it's also a planning and permitting
issue as well because they're supposed
to be applying for a permit to operate
business out of their home.
>> So, it becomes both a business license
issue and I'd walk next door to Mary and
say, "Hey, did they get a permit to
actually do this?"
>> Yeah. Or in zoning, too. I guess they'd
have to be zoned properly
>> because like I remember when I first
started, the health department would
come to my house and inspect it and
stuff and everything when I used to do
cakes out of the house and how to get
all that But
» that's
>> I mean not just picking on people that
bake out of their houses, but I mean
there's a lot of other things that
people do out of their houses and sales,
but if we're not collecting taxes on I
mean that's a huge
» There's a homestead law and I'm not
super aware of it, but it like exempts
some of the health department inspection
type of for small sales. There's certain
things that are associated with that
like poultry and eggs and small things.
But Mike may be more aware of that than
I am.
>> I'm not I was just thinking the same
thing that you just said that prep the distinction between a prepared food
and an and a food sale
where you're basically a grosser. It
gets really really complicated.
But to your point, they are most are
supposed to get
um if you're selling a prepared food,
you're supposed to have the health
department stuff. You're supposed to
have a home occupation permit from Mary
and you're supposed to be paying
u your meals tax again, which meals tax,
behold tax can can depend upon your
size. So uh but To your point,
I would strongly suspect that there are
people who are evading the rules or just
aren't fully aware and are just going
off and doing their own thing and
getting away with it, but they're not
supposed to. They're supposed to be
under the same rules as a as a
standalone establishment.
Again, a standalone establishment with
similar receipts which can vary.
» Are we good?
» What What else? What page should I ask?
>> I'm sure you got something on 68.
I'm sure we'll talk about it uh
separately, but under on page 70,
>> the recovered recovered cost that we
talking about with special events and
stuff, you know, that we aren't cap,
we're not capturing, you know, the true
cost of the events we're doing.
You know, I think the PD, Tom's folks,
and everything are taking a big hit
because we're only if we're recovering
anything, we're only recovering 20%,
right?
>> Per policy. Yes.
>> Policy.
>> And And do we recover 20%? We don't
cover 20% like centerfest or those other
events. Is that right?
>> And then uh yeah, I'll just I've got a
Richard, like I said, some of the
biggest events we it's also within the
policy. We don't recover anything from
money
>> cuz I think you said it was like $27,000
we spent on Centerfest.
>> Yeah. And I'm sorry. I'm the most recent
figures I had from public works and
police. Actually, it was just public
works. Centerfest cost $8,300. Now, the
police is in addition to that. And then
we also had some one-time costs for
electric. I know.
But at a minimum, it's costing us
$8,300.
>> Yeah. And then
>> plus the $7,500 sponsorship.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, and I guess John, you pay some
people over time to work center.
>> Well, we haven't done it in the last
year.
>> You haven't had
>> No, but we we used to have a crew up
there in case they had problems. We
installed a bunch of power boxes around
for people to use. So last year, we just
had if something came up, the on call
guy would just come over.
No, we don't put a crew over there
anymore like we used to.
>> That was back when I was still working
when you were doing that
>> back in back in the old days.
>> Back in the day.
>> Back in good old days. Yeah.
>> Well Well, Barton, do you have any
thoughts on if we raise that percent
what would be comparable 50% or I'm just
throwing thoughts out there for
discussion here. I I will tell you
>> we didn't have a policy until
four or five years ago
>> and then when we did 20% was just a
number that came out of thin air and
that's what we adopted.
>> That's kind of what I thought.
>> Anything more would help us recover
cost. Mhm.
>> I don't know how
much impact it would have in terms of
chasing events away if we said Well,
actually, I will tell you this came
about a few years ago because there was
somebody that wanted to have a 5K race
on Memorial Day weekend. We calculated
what the cost was, told them that they
didn't want to pay it, so I told them
no. Then they came to council, not this
council,
and asked council for their answer. And
council said no. But then the person
came back and made a impassion plea and
council said yes. So we ate that. The
next year that's what prompted this
policy. So the next year when I quoted
them 20% of our cost for that which was
about 20% of our cost was like three or
400. They didn't want to pay it but we
had a policy.
The the issue is whatever policy we
adopt.
It's like anything else. I'll enforce
it, but they can always appeal to
council
>> and we have to go back to the policy.
>> Yes, we all should go back to code
policy. Yes.
>> Not that you feel sorry for it.
>> I mean,
certainly 50% is reasonable.
We could we could poll the ones that we
deal with and ask them if 100% would
chase them out.
Again, the assumption is I have this
conversation in my house. Why did you
charge Liberty High School a $50 fee for
homecoming?
>> Well, really, I should have charged them
$180, but
>> Well, because it cost something.
>> Well, and I think in today's changing
times, and that's where we are. We have
to always constantly reeval re-evaluate
these things because we cannot continue
to lose money
or at least that much. We we're going to
make donations here and there with like
the fireworks and and probably
centerfest
Christmas parade, but we should be able
to recoup a larger amount.
So, give me y'all's thoughts.
>> So, how much in all special event
policies do we lose a year? But you told
me about 60 something,000.
>> Yeah, let me kind of So, when we figure
in the sponsorships as well, we also pay
D-Day.
We spent $69,550
based on what the departments reported
and we recovered
8,2 we're planning to recover 8,200 of
that. 7500 is the county willing to pay
for fireworks some of it. So it's it's
bordering on $70,000 in cost for what we
provide in services.
And I know I know me you had discussion
we talk about fireworks too. I mean
that's a big chunk of money recently has
come up where it used to be split
between three different
>> and the county is participating this
year Robert.
>> All right. Good.
>> Robert I but I mean it's and this year
since it's the 250th is going to be a
bigger show than normal. So having
talked to the vendor by the way we also
need to go through procurement with
that. That cost should go down after 26
27
and as long as we continue to play well
with the county they probably will help
us out. Yeah. Well, that's okay. That's
good. I'm glad to see that relationship
come back to to some degree.
>> Um,
>> and for people who asked, we do have a
really good working relationship with
Bedford County and do not underestimate
the value of that.
>> Yes, totally agree 100%. Um, so, okay,
let's let's what are the the biggies?
The Centerfest Christmas Parade and
Fireworks.
» Yes. Let's see. Centerfest. Uh, again,
if you throw in the sponsorship, it's
$15,000.
Christmas parades, $4,300. The Peaks of
Otter 5K race is $5,500.
Um, the Independence Day thing is has
apparently is going to be
self-supporting that Jonathan Aiden is
doing. Yeah, he's charging he's not
charging admission this time. He's got
sponsorships.
>> And the fireworks are going to be 35,000
in the budget, I think. Yeah, but that's
typically they're
30,000 or less and it's trended upward
with costs lately.
>> Yeah, it used to be around 17,000
going to be double this year.
>> It's a bigger show and they cost more
because of things like tariffs and the
straight of horm from China
>> for the events.
>> I just wanted to throw in now we have
the car.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Okay. And we're still we're still trying
to peg that.
>> But
>> they did pay their calculated 20.
>> I was going to say we passed some of
those costs on to them though.
>> Yeah.
What's that? Currently we're at
like uh 3,000 or something. Does that
sound right?
>> Well, my thinking is if you pull those
three out, how much do you have left?
>> Oh, okay.
>> That left then.
>> Really? It's
the homecoming parade LHS $750. That's
the B the baseline. Then if we have to
shut down the loop for a 5K, that's
about 2,000. So the range is anywhere
from 750 to couple thousand for
individual events. The big ones, like I
said, we just talked about.
» So why don't Well, I got two things.
one, I think your idea of polling and
talking to each one is a good idea to
see what what would drive people away if
it was too much. But the other thing is
um and I I think Mary could answer it is there a lot of benefit to the town
with these events and what the benefits
are or do you know could you quantify
that at this point
>> without polling businesses to see if
their sales go up on any given event day
go up or if they go down that's for the
doesn't help the street as close
traffic. So we can pull them and find
out what effect is. Well, I know with us
on Centerfest and Christmas parade,
we do triple like our normal sales cuz I
ordered like double
the food and stuff and everything and
there's been that some of the times
we've had to close at 1, didn't even
stay up past 1 or two because we ran
out.
So I mean it does restaurant
>> because like Heather leaves the front of
our store. She doesn't put anybody at
centerfest. Our storefront stays
>> and we do do really well for
>> That's because our prices, you know, cuz
food truck prices are more expensive
than regular food. So it does help for
that. The Christmas parade
um in the before it starts. Yes.
Once the Christmas parade is over, it's
a regular day, but then if you stay open
for the tree lighting and all of that,
then you got your people coming back in.
So, it does give you better sales, but
you have to stay open for.
» So, that I would think that would be
some of the stuff we would want to hear
from all business.
>> Sounds like it's beneficial to you to
have the events.
>> Yeah.
>> But I mean, you know, I'm like right
there in the middle of it.
>> Yeah.
It could be different when you're off to
the
>> some of these events that the town is
sponsoring or co-sponsoring
with other people.
>> Yeah, let me speak to that.
>> Could we
>> actually we don't really sponsor
anything because we don't have a staff
to do it anything. This kind of goes
back to the argument too that and maybe
we saying there are organiza other
organizations that have events and our
only involvement is we allow them to use
the streets. Now that said we do pay
sponsorships to organizations currently
the central Virginia Business Coalition
and the D-Day Memorial Foundation. So I just want to make that clear that
>> right
>> we we don't sponsor them because we
don't really have anybody who can
>> understood but the the point of the
question was as opposed to paying a fee
to be listed as a sponsor those inind
services that we pay
could that be used to offset whatever
that sponsorship level may be
>> we can ask
>> I think that's a great idea I will
follow
>> and of course the other option is okay
if if that's not good, then you're going
to pay a third or half of the cost of
our services.
>> Our costs are mainly in in barricading
the roads and streets and all that.
>> Yeah. Law enforcement,
public works, and actually anything.
>> The cost that's not counted is the cost
of the firefighters that are volunteers
that are out there. Correct.
>> Spending their time out there because
they don't get compensated for their
time.
>> They're just volunteering to be there.
>> Right. and it's taken away from them
from being able to respond to other
calls and again wearing them out and
having them
>> Yeah. So, so yeah, that's a good point
in that okay, if we can calculate the
cost or we the poll probably is the
right way to go first, but I dare say
some may say absolutely not, but you
don't know. You need to get the poll,
get need to get the numbers,
>> but for the sponsors, that's a great
idea. Yeah, we'll follow up on that as
well.
>> Go ahead.
>> That is a great idea there.
>> Yeah. And Chief Wills, it'd be
interesting for you if you could
calculate when we have special events
what the act what the cost would be and
for the manpower that you have out
there.
>> Yeah, because that would be a good
number to have. Even though it's it's
not a cost of us financially, but it's a
cost on the manpower that you have and
the and their ability to respond to the
call.
>> Theoretically for something like that, would be an overtime
>> kind of thing because you don't want to
We can't take services away from
services.
>> And I'm sorry, let me just explain the
process for any special kind of comes
through me first. The application forms
in my office, anybody that wants to do
it fills it out. I then send that out to
each department and ask them to evaluate
that and calculate the costs. And I
haven't been including the fire
department, but you will be added to the
distribution list. I I compiled that.
Well, I'm sorry. Let me go back. There's
a $50 application fee upfront
to cover our costs of just evaluating
that because everybody has to stop what
they're doing and figure out schedules.
Then we go back and calculate the total
cost. I figure out 20% send and send
them a quote saying this is what the
event fee is. Once they pay that, we put
it on the agenda. You approve it.
If they don't pay the fee, then
I'd tell them no, but then they could
still come and ask it.
» And we got to say no.
>> Yeah.
>> Well,
>> we got to stick with what the policy
>> correct. That's what I'm saying.
>> We got to let Mr. Warner do his job.
>> We got to support him.
>> Yes.
>> Or should Yes.
>> Yeah. So, so what's the flavor? I mean
going the polling or what what direction
do we want to go here?
>> Well, I think gathering information is
always
>> okay. Is that okay?
>> Yep. We can do that this week.
>> All right.
Carry on.
>> What's next?
>> I didn't know Dave has
you got
>> it's human. I think I Poland's fine.
Human nature. If I'm a business and you
say, "Hey, would you pay 100% or would
you leave?" I'll leave. And
>> that's what I was getting.
>> Yeah. And so it's like I don't So the
polling to me is going to be not even
beneficial.
>> Well, well, I think I think it's the
other side of the polling too that we
have that Mary could do to find out what
benefits there are to the businesses in
the community.
>> My part's easy. I'll know what Mary
>> Yeah. And her part's going to be more
difficult. See, see they they're going
to say to Mary, are you serious?
>> Well, some of them may say there's no
benefit. I would think they're going to
be say some would say there's none. And
then others like Jay are going to say
there's some. And that's where you we
got to find the balance of where where
it is in there.
>> It's that's a gun to play with any poll.
>> Yeah.
>> The accuracy of it.
>> Yeah, I know. I know.
>> But it's a good start. I mean, and then
you're you're you're exactly right
though. Then you have to analyze it and
see
the the the accuracy of it.
>> Yeah,
» I guess.
>> Yeah. I mean, because we got to start
somewhere and figure out where we're
going to go from there. I mean, if you
know, we could always say we're going to
charge 100% for what every event, but
then we might not have any events in
town after that.
>> I do agree that and I think we're on the
right track. Bart's on the right track
in that we've got to figure out, okay,
where are we losing money and how much
is too much and then tighten the budget
or tighten the belt a little bit to
where stop the bleeding
>> as much as we can. Yeah.
>> Without stopping events.
>> Well, exactly. That's where I was
thinking.
>> Yeah.
>> Because I think and because I do think
there are benefits to events even though
I may not sound like it when I'm saying
the things I'm saying. I think the
community benefits and the and the town
benefits from the marketing of the
events and people seeing the town
>> while they're here. I think there's a
benefit to that.
>> Yeah. No, I totally agree. We don't want
to seem like a Grinch and nobody wants
to come.
>> Exactly. So, I'm asking these questions
not as a person to say there are
benefits, but what how much so we can
try to quantify some of it is what I was
trying to think of.
>> One thing I'm going to say about the
Dane, we do talk about this. You know,
there was one person said they're not
going to charge any fees this year on
one event, but all the other events.
There's fees, entry fees,
registration fees.
>> Yeah.
>> And then that group makes up money from
that.
>> Yeah. Do we Yeah. Do we gain any tax? Do
we gain any tax advantage from that when
there's people charging to enter the
events and we don't have
>> I'm just curious.
>> I have to look at our code. We haven't
been charging an admissions tax now. But
we don't have do we have one in the
books for or is there one do we have an
ordinance for
>> admission is there tax go
>> or do we need to create one
>> so certain events charge an admission
fee
>> can we get some of that benefit
>> I'm paraphrasing but that's
>> admissions tax in the books and I'm
aware
>> I mean we could have an admissions tax
>> but then it's also tricky because if
they're a nonprofit
>> a lot of times are exempt from the
missions tax that the nonprofit agency
is putting on the event
>> or school. You get into the school
situation.
>> That's a good proportion.
>> Yeah. I will tell you Liberty High
School wasn't happy about paying $50.
You
thought I'd bankrupted some.
Well, and we wouldn't charge the
nonprofits then, but then that would at
least if honestly it might drive more
nonprofits to doing the events, but then
it would benefit the nonprofits and may
not need some of it may help them.
So, I mean, because there because I know
there are some events that are privately
funded that are still act out or out
there that are still charging for
admissions. The the carnival could be
one of them if they charge for
admissions of the carnival.
I think they used to years back when it
was at the JC field. They throw it to
admission, but that's long ago.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh is appropriate to mention that we're
in our engagement with the carnival.
We're talking about them providing some
benefits to the facility.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Please do. Yeah.
>> Because in in that car, so the Bedford
carnival first instance was last year at
Liberty League Park. They're coming
again. They've talked to us about a
long-term arrangement at Liberty Lake
Park and making some improvements to the
facilities they use that would exist
permanently and benefit us and benefit
our maintenance efforts. So, just want
to make you aware that there's another
>> we have repeat customers. We've also
execute I'm I'm going off topic a little
bit. Also executed anou with county win
they're the most consistent user of the
fields. They're going to step up more
with maintenance to offset our costs.
there's an idea that somebody has about
duplicating something like illuminites
on our trail, we can engage them to fix
the trail and maintain it. That's that's
different than the fee discussion, but I
just want you to be aware that part of
our attempt to reduce our maintenance
and capital cost
>> relates to following up on these
relationships where we can.
>> And I will follow up on that in that Tom
and I met with uh Joy Powers and what
was the other ladies?
>> Carolyn Fellers. Kellen Fel Fellers's uh
several months back about the county
fair. Very good meeting and and they
went off on these ideas. They would like
some kind of building in the future. Uh
and not just a meet uh building where
you put up and take down a metal
building to put all their things in
their their arts, their crafts,
different things to expand the county
fair. And so they talked about
partnering with the town on these things
which Jonathan Hayden also said that
about the land that we currently own and
are not doing anything with talked about
additional parking additional ideas on
that. So there are ideas out there that
they are serious about
>> and we could capture that as an inind
cost on their part. Follow up on D.
That's why I brought it.
>> Yeah. So yeah, I appreciate that.
>> And that's what I would say it was an
inind cost. I think that would cover.
>> Yeah, but that's what I've been saying a
lot about a lot of these things. If we
can get partners to go in with us and
help out, not the town go it alone, and
that's kind of what we're looking for.
And and with Jonathan and his group
there, they are more than willing to
help out or do what they can. We we just
need to get someone, as I said earlier,
to start driving that and moving forward
and seeing what we can or cannot do. And I think I think all these partners
we're talking about really do benefit
the town.
>> Absolutely.
>> The events that some
>> No doubt they right.
>> Yeah.
>> So I'm glad you mentioned that.
>> What else?
Deborah's back there pointing to the
hall. Do you all want to finish this one and then go eat or what? What
else on the financials or do you want to
ask or what's on your mind?
>> Finish this section.
>> Yeah, finish it up.
>> Yeah, let's finish it before.
>> Your sto must be ground.
>> No, no, that might actually
covered everything that I had my notes
on. I have so
I guess
>> I mean anything that you y you all think
about later we can come back to
>> I guess the only question I'd have and
just as a point of clarification was on
page 71 the refuge collection fees the
building I know the tren shows it down
in 26 but I'm guess that's due to
commercial exactly
>> and I'll say the decrease in the fee is
a lot less than the decrease in the
cost.
» All right, page 72
73
74 75
As I said, anything we can come back to
if y'all want to, but uh
you got anything?
You okay?
>> I'm good. You good?
>> I can ask one question.
>> Please do.
>> We got till 12.
>> And they won't take that. is uh on on 74
and the proposed 27 I the contingency
will that I mean if are in a perfect
world this year nothing goes wrong we
will we just roll that over as a general
fund thing
>> that's the hope and almost all of that
is either debt funding that's planned in
the general fund solid based fund and
then the electric fund has a healthy
contingency this year
And that's all I have
>> for now.
» All right. Anything on 75? P 875.
All right. Then the next one when we
come back will be the CIP
capital improvement program. Everybody
good? Yep. Then let's break for lunch.
Welcome to Yeah.
too, right?
>> Yes.
» We were fast tracking.
>> Daryl and I discussed everything else in
between.
>> Yeah. I think we left off page 170. Oh,
excuse me. 176. 76. Um, real quick, Mary
is back. If you all had any questions
ABOUT
» Are you enjoying your meal, ma'am?
>> If you have any questions about
community development, we'll wait till
she's finished and then ask her any
questions.
>> I think Barb pretty much answered.
>> Yeah.
Oh, I don't know.
>> Yeah,
>> did a great job.
>> He He did a great job for you, Mayor.
>> All right. I think we left off on page
76. Uh, moving forward, the government's
movement programs.
Let's go.
>> Yeah, there's not a lot,
but there's a lot to talk about in the
future.
Um,
one thing I just want to mention
strategically, uh, you know, just going
that list in public works, we're looking
at doing some work in the parks in two
places. One is Bulipane Park. We have to
do that. There's some legal obligations
>> related to when we took over ownership
of that that we're wrapping up. Um,
talking about the literally park
restrooms, Tom and I have talked about
this and here want to share our approach
to that, you know, the idea of Portage
John's nobody really likes, including
us. So, we're talking about the idea of
maybe constructing permanent facilities
that, okay, they're restrooms with water
fountain facilities
at each kind of pod or sector of the
park. And the first one we've talked
about is, you know, up by the tennis
courts and the playground up up top
doing that figuring out how this works.
Doing it one year,
not to be improper, you know, one seater
each side, that kind of thing. Then
maybe the next year doing it at field
one and the next year at field two and
next year down at the pavilion by the
lake. Kind of incrementally as we can
afford it,
respond to some of the concerns of the
public that frankly we have too.
and and restrooms were things we heard
about.
>> So that that's our approach to it. And
Tom, you jump up and smack me if I said
something wrong.
>> I don't I'm not sure I missed Oh, I
missed the first part of that. You
talking about permanent
>> permanent? Yeah. Something. Yeah. With
running water and
>> Yeah. Right. Okay.
>> Probably electricity.
>> I think that's a great idea. Great. And
we need to
>> now we don't know what that looks like
yet. We're we're looking at modular
options obviously.
Yeah, I I'll just jump. Uh there are
some modulars that that operate like a
porta john they that they and I had
already talked to uh Brad Bay who you
who utilizes uh maintains the port John
we had where the truck comes in cleans
it out that kind of thing. But they are a building though. They just
don't have water and and the sewer lines
that have to be run to them. They're
self-contained, but it's a building.
It's not a portage, not like a plastic
thing.
>> So, it's, you know, it's upscale, but no
water needs to be run to it because
frankly, we were talking about, I mean,
that'd be the preference, but that's
going to cost quite a bit,
>> especially per unit.
>> I'll give you another example. We were
um there was a u
standalone water fountain by the uh
tennis courts and that was there. had
been existing for years but wasn't
working. But we started researching and
getting into it. We found where the the
valve was. The valve was shut off. So we
turned it on and the thing start
spraying out. So, you know, we get
farther into it. You know, long story
short, it needs to be replaced. The the
components that are underground are
either worn out or rusted out or
whatever. A standalone the cheapest
standalone water fountain that I can
find. And I've had uh
Whit look into it. I've had Select Air
look into it. And I looked into myself.
The cheapest one I can find is $9,000
just for a standalone water fountain.
And from the two contractors, it was
much more than that. It's closer to
15,000.
So that's why that's going undone right
now because 10 grand for a water pound
is hard to justify. But uh but yeah,
we're going to do something. But like I
said, it's the cost. It's a little cost
prohibitive. Run the water and sewer
lines and all that. So we were looking
at other options. So
the cost of our standalone
self-contained unit is much less still a
little bit.
>> I got to speak of it. Did we do we have
defibrillators at our parks?
>> No sir.
>> Though it's going to be required. Yeah,
we that that was a discussion that came
up uh not long ago about our lack of
throughout the whole city, you know, or
town.
So, yes, sir.
>> That's something else.
>> So, on these modules, are they do you
have to run power to them, have lights
in them? you uh you can a couple of them
were solar powered but uh power would I
believe I in my opinion my humble
opinion I think p getting power to it
would be much easier
wouldn't be much much of an issue
because we do have power up there with
some street lights and some other things
and at the pavilions so running power to
it I don't think would be a big deal but
yes sir that would it would be able to
be excuse me utilized at night
Sounds good. I know I know we get
criticized at times for what's down
there, but I know our our granddaughter
is playing lacrosse and we go to big
parks in Lynchburg and Ron Oak and they
have the Porter John's there. So,
they're everywhere.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Porter John's, you know,
when you really need it, they're they're
handy. But,
>> and that's what you like. Like I said
with the standalone unit, I had talked
to Brad Baines because they they utilize
those, but he said he'd never heard of
such a thing and it was something I
found online. Um, but he goes, "Sure."
He goes, "If it's got a holding tank and
that kind of he goes, why not?" He goes,
"It's no different than what we do now
with the with the small unit." So,
>> yeah. And I've never seen this, but I
know some of the guys that did storm
restoration out of state talked about
it. There were some that had full
running water, electricity, everything
in there just like a normal toilet and
uh it's very a lot of different things
out there depending on what you want to
spend.
>> Yes, sir. That's correct.
>> So, I jumped ahead a little bit with the
parks. That was the one thing that we
heard consistently and yes,
>> we are working to address. Now, there
are several things in the CIP that we're
looking to fund through short-term
financing.
And let me I'm going to speak to this
Tuesday at council meeting for the
benefit of the public. But to let you
know where we are on this building,
Thompson Len is coming up with two
potential options for air conditioning.
One is replacing a water chiller system
like the one we have. The other is use
of mini splits, multiple minplit units.
They recommend the mini splits. Tom and
I like the mini splits. The issue with
the mini splits is trying to get an
answer on this, but I think we already
know it. They're going to go on the
roof.
>> He did send us an email last night.
>> Okay.
>> I meant to respond. Uh in short, he said
that they are doing everything they can
do to to avoid the roof.
>> Okay.
>> But if but if they had but if it was a
necessity that they would uh go to
Senbar who did the roof and has the
warranty on it. Thank you. can explain
and work with them. So if they did go on
the roof, Senmar could have a rep or
they could have an agreement as to what
work could be done without negating the warrant.
>> So they're willing to work with it.
Okay.
>> Yes, we just got that from Barry last
night.
>> So
ready to present that to you all for
action. But before we we want to make
sure we had all the detail. Obviously,
in solving one problem with the HVAC, we
don't want to create another one with
the roof that we just
>> paid $30,000.
» Also
want to make sure we get a full view of
how things are working. You gave us
30,000 to implement a temporary solution
which has not been installed yet, but I
will tell you from my perspective, if
that works and carries us through the
summer,
that stretches out our time on moving
forward on all the replacement and also
defers the payments a little bit, too.
So, I'm not dragging my feet, but I'm
trying to be responsible with the
temporary solution as well as the
long-term solution. And I'll explain all
this Tuesday as well, but since that's
we still estimate 2.5 million for all
the HVAC, all the electrical work and
what we might be borrowing. So, okay.
And then there are several other things
including a couple of u capital items
related to solid waste.
So
we I think it might be appropriate I
know it's a solid waste fund discussion
but to talk about the transfer station
and then also to talk about these other
things in light of our residential
service
because in our conversations with the
one respondent for the franchise they've
asked if we would be if we would
consider contracting out at least a
portion of our residential trash pickup
service.
And I'm sorry this is a lot to throw at
you this morning based on that but it
could inform some other things.
And I guess the first thing was first
thing is
can we talk about closing the transfer
station as soon as possible.
You will get yelled at for that by
people who use it. But as I said at the
beginning of the meeting, that's a
straight up duplication of services. We
are spending at least $100,000 in
expenditures related to probably more
like 150
>> and we have huge capital items lingering
if we want to continue to use it
>> and we don't need it.
>> So we'd close the station then in the
interim before possibly the franchisee
would come in. Is that what you're
saying? Well,
what we're hearing from the franchisee
is they don't really think they the only
way they have a use for it is if they
can use it in conjunction with another
service that they're not currently
providing.
» Doesn't make money.
>> Well, I mean, it doesn't make sense.
>> It doesn't make money any more money for
them than it would for us. That's kind
of where we I mean, I I like taking
stuff over there, but it doesn't make
sense for to me to the for the town in
general to keep it open and then start
incurring the cost for the roll on
rolloffs you need and the those other
things that we're have to buy to keep it
going. So,
>> and if you go just a couple more miles,
you're paying taxes to use a pretty nice
facility in
>> Sure. Yeah.
» So, are you wanting us to make a
decision? I offer some guidance because
well
this helps in our negotiation with with
the person interested in the franchise
too because part of our leverage is we
don't need it and but if they need it in
conjunction with something else that's
the guidance we so it's kind of like
when we negotiate some things with
reversion we have to establish a
position first off that we know we can
defend
>> the next question is do we want to talk
about residential zones
>> well first I would I would be with Dave
if it's costing us money that's that's
just closed it because I go out to the
county. I don't I don't come to the town
to drop my trash off. I go out to the
county landfill and drop all mine off
because it's a service the county
provides to me for my taxes.
>> Can I ask can I ask a question? Right
now the poles that we remove from
service we take to the transfer station
>> and theoretically they were ground up or
what whatever we we didn't want to have
the liability of giving them to out to
the public. So if you close it that
means we have to go to the county
landfill. Is that are they going to you
remember they're barking about oh you're
using commercial out here. Yes.
>> Is that going to jeopardize our
situation with that? Well, that's what
you're talking about though is
commercial waste.
>> Yeah.
>> By any definition, we we resolved that
by getting out of the commercial
business.
>> Yeah.
>> You would have to pay for what you
dropped.
>> But what you took? Yes.
>> Now, does that cost outweigh the savings
is the question.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We don't think so.
>> There's other material that we do that
with as well. So, um I guess we just
reroute to the county
>> or somewhere else if it's more
efficient.
probably the calendar.
>> And then also like if we're cutting a
tree, we take the logs from the tree
over there most of the time. We used to
try and work with a property owner if he
says, "Oh yeah, I want the logs." But
then they sit there for 6 months and the
neighbors start complaining and so we
stop doing that.
So we're kind of in a situation where we
do cut quite a few trees. We end up
taking landfill. And brush grinding is a
separate conversation.
>> That would be a I'm sorry to interrupt,
but I wanted to when currently we
contract out uh brush brush grinding
services to Bedford movement. So we have
a contract with them. It could be
possibility that either we allow them to
still continue to grind on that that
site even though it's closed. Uh the
owner of Bedford, Jimmy Andrews, has
property throughout. Maybe he would do
something else where we could deliver
brush. I mean, it still would be become
an issue uh for my department as well
because we unless you deem it otherwise.
We we'd still have to pick up brush and have to deliver either to the county
or wherever because um the uh gentleman
who's who's off who put in the RFD uh
doesn't do.
>> Yeah. So that would be a factor and as
well as leaves leave pickup. So that'd
be another consideration. But I just
wanted to throw that out there that we
do contract out that grinding service.
So I think there is something that could
be worked out.
» If I was to close it because it's you're
taking money and put it to something
else that we need to focus on.
>> 750,000.
>> Yeah, I was going to point that out.
I mean that is included in the budget at
this point is disposal being zeroed out.
>> Yeah, I'm I'm thinking the same line
duplication of services. But back to the
brush. Okay. Would we
if we continue doing that with Jimmy
Andrews? Then would there how would that
work? Would
>> we don't need the transfer station to
continue brush around?
>> Okay.
So we could still take loads of brush
through the gate there and no not weigh
it or
>> Well, I mean,
>> but that's those are the
>> we could work something out.
>> We we haven't we haven't gotten that.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> We have to
>> Yeah, that's where I'm going. We
>> those are the little pieces of the
puzzle to be
>> still take brush out to the county too.
>> Yeah.
>> And if it's residential for sure, right?
>> But I'm talking
>> it's residential for sure.
>> Yes. Some of these larger landscaping
companies take it out there and go to
our landfill and dump it, but they're
wave.
>> Well, that but if it's a landscaping
company, then that's going back to it's
not residential trash. It's
>> commercial.
>> Also, I'm just saying this even though
they're doing it on for residential,
>> they're getting paid to do it.
>> Yeah. Okay. According to our ordinance,
any work that a land that a contracted
landscaper does on somebody's property,
they are responsible to remove.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> So,
>> that's commercial.
>> Okay.
>> So, also you look at we got go down to
solid waste. We're going to have to buy
a garbage truck, too. So, that's
$400,000
>> minimum.
>> Yeah.
>> You're right. and and and I did put in
this year on the CIP uh for a new garden
truck. They are
they it's definitely needed especially
with and with 800 new homes coming in
here.
>> Yeah.
>> So, do we need to talk have that
discussion about residential trash?
>> We do. I just don't know if we want to
do that right now.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I think that's part of what you're
talking about.
>> Yeah. transfer station if there's
consensus on that
>> and again we will take formal action in
a meeting to give appropriate notice and
discontin the service but
>> okay we'll continue down that track and
for budgeting purposes assume we're
doing that now residential yeah that
given the fact that the person we're
negotiating with brought it up we would
like to talk about that but I know
you've got a lot of other things on your
plate so we we're prepared to talk about
that part today but it's up to
Well, since we got to page 132 already,
then
>> Well, I mean, it's
>> Hey, where do you got to go? You just
got to get people here to be with
>> now currently. And I'll just tell you
with our the fees we're collecting and
what we're charging, we're covering our
costs, but we know that if we stay in
that business, we got capital things
coming down the pike.
But isn't that a conversation that we
should have after the because we if we
negotiate to get rid of it now and we
don't make that if we decide we get want
to get rid of it and we don't build that
get who you're negotiating with to do it
correct
>> then we're stuck.
>> You're right.
>> Yeah.
>> So I think that's I I don't think that's
>> that's why I said if you're not
>> I think that's one we we work let you do
your part and you bring it back to us.
We have the transportation part covered
and now we can
>> that's my thought.
>> Perfect. Just didn't know if you want to
get
>> ahead.
>> I think I think it's something that you
need to talk and then bring it back to
us,
>> but I don't want to make make a decision
on it until
>> we so we don't make a decision and we
don't have
>> somewhere to go
>> until we we're sure all the moving parts
are in place. So, the garbage truck that
we have in this year's budget, shall we?
Excuse me, Tom. Defer for another year
>> because we're not going to We will not
have that answer by July one, I'll tell
you.
>> Will it last? Will the current one last
another year?
>> Oh, I Yeah, I mean,
>> okay,
>> there'll be maintenance.
>> Hopefully. I mean, I got some excellent
mechanics. We do have three trucks. We
do have backup for it. So, yeah, I don't
see that as a problem.
>> Okay.
>> But, uh I But I do just to be upfront.
I'm concerned with how fast the home the
new homes are coming in and the new
residents uh the first phase of of
Easton Crossing almost daily almost
daily. Oh yeah.
>> We're getting a new customer
>> and it's
>> Yeah.
>> And like we were talking like you all
were talking earlier change and it's
changing rapidly.
>> Oh, it's it's here. Okay. And so when
even from a year ago when I started
here, it's already different. You know,
we've had to we've had to add, you know,
quite a bit. We I had on Mondays, I now
have to have one of the secondary
trucks, a whole another crew to go out,
a second crew to go out to help just so
we can get it in in the eight hours in
the day. You know, the requirements,
just build the requirement. So change is
happening. So I'm just trying to and
it's just going to get busier. So
>> yeah, I agree.
>> And and that's where I come down with
the trucks. They're they're fairly worn
out now and with the you know it's just
not going to get better. But yes, I
think I I think another year.
>> Okay.
>> How you going to say? Because it either
defer it or or could we hold it until a
decision's made? Leave it there until a
decision's made.
The challenge is we were going to fund
it with debt and so
>> Okay.
>> If you're going to issue debt, you want
to
>> Yeah. Then you would Yeah. Then that's
Yeah. Then I' I'd say it's deferred.
>> Yeah. Defer defer. Gosh, how long would
it take to get a truck like that in your
>> That's a good question. I'd say at least
six months.
>> Oh, I was thinking a year more.
>> Well, I'm trying to be optimist,
>> you know, and depending on requirements.
I mean, if I said, "Hey, give me I just
need a side load garment."
>> Yeah.
>> They might, you know, there might be one
available, but if I get specific with
it,
>> special order.
>> What do Do you anticipate any type of
major price increase from the 400,000 to
next year?
>> I I would anticipate Yes, sir. to be on
that to be and I'm and I'm a negative
person by nature.
>> So yeah, I
>> I fully expect that especially with
>> here that's going to be happy to admit
if it's bad it's going to happen.
>> Yeah.
>> So if we So if we defer, we're actually
deferring for two years. We defer the
decision for a year and it's going to
take a year to get a garbage truck and
then we defer.
>> But if we don't defer, what will we do
with the new garbage truck? I'm not just
arguing. I'm just Procedurally, yeah, we
would push it out of here and encumber
it, but it might not get there till the
following year if we do it.
>> That's a good point.
>> Yeah. I mean, if we have a new truck,
then what are we going to do with it?
>> You could blind us with your first
service payment 28.
» Closing the transfer station, but this
is this discussion is on contracting
residential,
>> right? And we don't want to make a
decision on that. Yeah. Yes, we have the
details.
>> Yeah, we have a detail.
>> I agree.
>> Can we all defer?
>> And most of it's public.
>> It's a flat bed, a grab bucket.
>> Defer,
>> roll off dumpsters. And then the one we
the police department put on is they
have incar and body camera system for
300,000. I'm guessing they need to order
rather than later. I'm not 100% sure.
>> But vice mayor, I just want to let you
know I do have first knowledge from a
colleague who who does that and uh Brad
P and he said he is currently you know
he purchas
» so significant would that be 25 grand or
>> yeah I'd say
>> okay so I just want to look at
>> but he's moving towards the one armed
they call one man single operator which
are technology with the lack of staffing
that he hasn't
gone.
>> So,
>> but he said he did see a price.
>> Okay.
>> It's all going up. It's going to
increase. It's not coming down.
>> No, sir.
>> Yeah.
>> It's not a question of if it's how much.
>> Well, I mean, I'm my my first tour duty
on the town council. We ordered the
first ladder truck like 750,000. How
much is it now?
>> A million.
Yeah. It's not coming down.
>> 5 years to get it.
>> You said it takes 5 years to get it
after you sign.
>> Yeah. So, I'm 750,000.
>> Weren't sure where that was coming from?
>> Exactly.
>> Yeah. So, it's not coming down.
>> Yeah.
>> So, you had all Okay. Deferring.
>> Yeah, we Yeah, I think we all
>> Okay.
>> Did we get
>> Were there any other pieces of equipment
that would be related to this also?
I did I did request a rolloff truck
which is typically you know for the
rolloff dumpsters for trash. Um that a
grapple bucket truck which was primarily
for brush but we do you utilize it for
the large trees and and also during
cleanup weeds that kind of thing.
>> Well I would think the I think that
would be something you could use
immediately.
>> Oh no. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I was
thinking of the ones that were related
to the residential
>> but specifically the residential tra the
trash.
>> That's the only thing. Okay.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Okay.
>> All right. What's next?
>> I do have you got more on the you want
to kind of info us on the CIP. Well, I
was going to say, do you have any you've
got them? I was going to say you got
them before you. There are several items
that we're going to fund with short-term
debt. Then there are still are several
items that we're going to pay cash for
>> in all funds. So, any any questions
about any of those? We're
>> what are we paying cash for?
>> So, anything in
proposed fiscal year 2027
is, for lack of a better term, cash.
Anything in debt funding is the borrow.
Okay. Now, we're
>> on uh the proposed agenda for this week.
There's the
approval of the fuel control system.
>> Is that going to now be a FY26 uh fund
instead of a 27?
>> Yeah.
>> We had to move it up because
>> Well, that's fine.
>> We need it.
>> Okay.
» 17,000.
>> I've been doing them all by hand. I
believe
>> that's okay. It's 17,000 of the good. I
mean, we're paying for a tissue here,
but
>> um one thing I we've talked about this
and I know it's it's going to have to be
done at some point. The the downtown
electrical underground service. At what
point are we going to
get that in the budget and start that or
is it already in here? And I didn't see
it because that is
failing at different times, is it not?
>> Well, I'm going to defer to John on how
we're how it's actually functioning.
>> I mean, we know it's we know a lot of
the underground electric was put there
like in the mid 80s.
>> Yeah, it it's still functioning. Uh,
generally it's either works or it
doesn't work. So, one day it looks good,
the next day it's
>> maybe I was too harsh.
But we do we when we get to our budget,
we do have some underground circuit
replacement. We figure we'd work it into
that over the next 5 years.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, and somewhat related to that, we
are going to go we're the sidewalks are
showing aggregate in several places
downtown. We are going to proceed this
spring with sealing those. So that
hazard's address and we and the main
reason we're doing that is we didn't
want to replace sidewalks that might be
taken up not too in the future but it's
all related.
» Okay. Sorry. Can I jump in?
>> Thank you was done. I just wanted to so
the uh like for the uh building grounds
for the town or the town building
grounds the two and a half million we're
looking at I guess for the municipal
building the stuff that's requested in
FY28
I thought man maybe I just misunderstood
but I thought one of the things we
mentioned about when we do the municipal
building we were going to look at
rolling as much as we could into it so
we would have that cost one time and not
in later. So I didn't
>> main concern is our debt capacity is
that we can issue two and a half million
without exceeding the payment we
currently have budgeted. So we now under
discussions with the engineering firm
feel like two and a half is just going
to cover electric. We're not going to
have a lot of extra.
>> Okay. No windows.
>> That's fair. I just wanted to make sure
that
>> no new windows or anything.
>> I'll defer a part, but if there's red
down on price,
>> we'll throw it in.
>> Okay. Well, I just wanted to for me just
to get clarity on that. I mean, this is
a another thing for the uh toilets out
at the park. I mean, I don't you know, I
know in the park service, not that you'd
want to, but you can make them really
nice. They have those compositing
toilets that you know are just as a as a
thought. And then I think for me at
least part of the discussion on some of
the capital improvement goes back to
what Tom had been mentioned and others
have mentioned is levels of service. I
mean we have a you know in 28 we have a
automated leave collection truck uh and
some other things that we do as a
service to the community which is nice
but as he has said with new buildings
and new homes coming online he barely
has enough to keep up with trash
collecting. So I think we actually at
some point have to have a a cons a
discussion on what levels of service we
maintain and what we don't.
Well, I think that goes back a lot to
duplication of services, going back and
figuring out what we want to continue
doing and what the county is currently
doing that we can take advantage of and
the residents mainly.
>> Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like Todd said,
I mean, we can take our uh brush to the
county, but a lot of people homeowners
will cut it, put it at the edge of the
road, so Tom people kind of pick it up.
Is that something we do and continue to
do? Let him do it. and does he have the
people? That's that's those are the
things I just think we they're nice and
they are definitely benefits, but we
have to have that discussion if it's if
we're able to keep that up or not.
>> No, I totally agree with you that that
plus the spring and fall cleanup. Are
they things we want to continue to do? I mean, that cost us
money.
>> Yes.
>> That's going to be part of the uh the
presentation. I guess I'm going to give
you guys numbers on that. Is it
You go to shockers.
>> Maybe not shockers. What should you
beware
during those cleanups? I should
>> Yeah.
>> To try to put it nicely.
>> Yeah. But but no, Dave, I think you're
on the the right path there that we have
to continue to look at what do we want
to continue doing and and but what what
is it someone else can do better, right?
at the same cost or cheaper, but what
are some of the things we need to get
out of? And and yeah, it's kind of like
years back closing the landfill on
Saturday was was a big shock to some
people, but they got over it. So, you
know, we just have to make those
decisions at some point in time. But
you're right, we have to look at it.
>> I think
>> Well, it's either that or it's either
that or major tax increases.
>> You got to do something.
>> You That's right. You have to weigh the
options. You're right. Correct.
Um, one thing I I know there's a clear
answer to this on page 80. Mary on
computer community development future
planning
2484
2544,000 and 26 35,000. What What does
that include?
>> What page are you on? on page 80.
>> That's your comp plan.
>> Said future future planning. Oh, was
that that the comp plan?
>> Okay. Good. Good. Good. Good.
» Yeah, that crossed my mind, but I want
to be sure. Thank you.
All right. What else do I have? What page are we on now?
Where do we want to go?
Continue on.
81.
>> I'll give you the comfort level. That's
all I had in this section.
>> What What else do the rest of y'all
have?
>> What do you got, Stacey? What
>> page? I'm just looking right now.
>> Okay.
» The dredging of Liberty Lake. Is that
next year or the year after? Okay.
>> It be a good thing to do.
>> It needs it, doesn't it?
>> Of course, we also have a drainage issue
with a neighbor that's contributing to
that. I mean, realistically too, Tom, do
you think 100,000 is I mean, with
permitting, that's probably just permits
and everything.
>> It may,
>> but yes, 100 grand.
>> That That's a Let's put this on the
radar so you know it's an issue, right?
>> That's a placeholder.
>> Yeah,
that won't cost you anything next year,
but we want you to be aware of it.
>> I mean, it's easily, at least my
experience is
one half,2 million dollars.
Okay, moving on.
» Wet blanket. That's right.
>> You ready?
» All right.
>> 82.
>> I do have one right here.
>> What page are you?
>> Page 82.
>> 82. Page two.
That's in the middle of the page of the
supervision engineering.
$425,000.
The truck.
>> Is that for you, John? The electric
truck or
>> where where are we here?
>> The replacement truck next year.
>> Page 82. Oh, yeah. Yeah, actually. Um,
we have two trucks that we ordered. I
thought we had one in the previous year
as well.
Um, yeah, that's a a truck, a large uh
bucket truck. It's replacing one that's
I don't know 18 years old and uh it's worn out.
>> So, what truck are we replacing?
>> Well, a large bucket truck. It's the one
that Jeff Fur drives basically.
>> So, do we ever sell any trucks at
surplus or anything like that? I know we
got rid of some other vehicles. The last
few we've sent to auction when we were
done with them. Uh the last one we sent
I think we got $20,000 $22,000 for it.
So we have one uh kind of surplus truck.
It's a what we call line truck which is
a digger derek truck. Um and right now
it's uh it's so old that we can't get
Altech to certify it anymore. So we use
it uh to tow basically.
Uh if we have a large load to tow,
that's what we use that for. Uh do we
want to keep it? Uh if it starts costing
us money, we'll we'll send it to
auction.
>> So this is just replacing one truck,
right?
>> That's replacing one truck, but we do I
thought we had another truck in here
from previous year
because we not only have that one
coming, which we just got the uh invoice
for $440,000
>> that's on here.
stage 419
truck.
>> Okay. Yeah, that's the that is and then
we also have what we call small bucket
truck. Both of these trucks were ordered
the the large bucket truck was ordered 5
years ago and then the small was ordered
four years ago. So, uh we were hoping,
you know, expecting both to be delivered
in budget year 27,
but it looks like the first truck is
actually ready. So that may come before
the end of this year. And that was
$419,000 was in the budget and that has
come in at $440,000.
>> Both these really should be in
transmission distribution. I think
that's the question.
>> Oh well, they're capital
>> items, but
>> yeah.
>> So my question to you is, you know, we
got a lot of things going on this year.
We got that $750,000 coming up. We're
going to not have next year or whatever.
There's a truck that you're replacing.
Well, that just like we asked Tom about
the trash truck, that truck that you're
replacing, will that last another year
or so? Because you remember a couple
years ago we split the payments instead
of doing a 420.
I'm going to use 450 and we split it
half gave you half one year you went
ordered a truck and gave you the other
half the next time when the truck came
in a year or so later or whatever.
>> Yeah. Uh because of the lead time in
these things and they're finally
becoming available.
Uh I I wouldn't suggest that we defer
them there. If I had to defer something,
I'd defer something else other than
these two trucks because of the long
lead times. You know, we had to get our
place in line 5 years ago. If we give it
up and say, "No, we don't want it. It'll
be another 5 years till we can replace
it."
I think it's a little different here
with the garbage truck in that we're
looking possibly get out of that
business whereas I don't think we're
going to get out of electrical business
anytime soon. But they we wear out uh
very quickly and they'll a truck like
that you you have to piece meal together
and you end up spending a lot more money
on it than you normally would if you
just send it to auction or replace it.
>> This one's also PGO cash funded instead
of debt funded as well.
Yeah. So, uh, like you know, you can see
it's been in the it's, you know, was in
the budget last year which was approved
and and this year's, uh, it's just a
matter of timing for us when they become
available and the lead time that we have
to plan for to get them. So, uh, I would
suspect that, uh, we know the big bucket
truck that we have that we're replacing,
we'll probably send that to auction
because it's worn out. You know, it's
probably not worth keeping. The small
bucket truck we're replacing, we'll
probably hang on to that for a little
while because it's used, still somewhat
usable, but it's not becoming a
frontline truck anymore. You know, it's
got to be relegated to a part-time
situation.
So uh and that truck uh is 11 years old
to 12 years old.
>> What is average lifespan on on the
utility trucks?
>> I know that uh APCO replaces every seven
years.
>> I I thought it was less than
>> or maybe even less than that. So we're
talking about 11 to 18 years that we're
getting out of trucks, which is a lot
more.
>> They have a lot bigger territory to
serve also.
>> Yeah. and our trucks get beat up. And
when you're working up in Big Island or
around there, it's it's a different
world
>> than being down here.
>> We depreciate it every seven years.
here.
Any more CIP questions?
Are you all ready for general fund or or
not?
Y'all aren't going line by line, are
you?
>> No.
>> There might be a couple of questions,
lot items, not general fun.
>> Okay, y'all. Y'all want to go? Y'all
ready for general fun?
>> Let's roll. All right, general fun.
» All right.
What do y'all have? I'm let somebody
speak,
>> but
you're leading the pack. Dave, don't
stop on comments.
» I just curious about the I think it was
the retail sales actually. Was it the
resale sales?
>> What page?
>> It's on It's on page
>> 89.
It's the revenues. Yeah, I was
looking at the revenues where we're
projecting it dropping a little bit.
>> We did because we had one retailer that
was reclassified as a wholesaler.
>> Okay.
>> Um so that dropped the revenue quite a
bit. But I will say based on
budget um amounts that we currently
have. So we proposed the budget, but
it's due in the end of March, we
collected a lot of times through April,
but we've now built everything today. We
have build out retail sales of $450,000.
So that's big difference. So you do have
a surplus in that line item based on
what we've built out this year.
other in the same vein on the same page.
The question I would I had was I mean I
may be kind of late to the but the
payments to from the water authority
>> it was almost half a million through
until 27. What was that?
>> That's reimbursing us for general
obligation debt that was for water and
sewer lines that we couldn't assign.
>> Okay.
>> It's fully paid now. So the the debt
also dropped off on the expense.
>> Yeah. Okay. was a one for one.
Of course, above that when is voluntary
settlement agreement, we are working on
a plan for that
tentatively. Something that may be
workable in partners.
Good answer.
Right.
Page 90
91
question on that. I don't want to lead
it be beat up. Uh, but I just
so it seems like and Jim, sorry I'm
going to beat you up a little bit, but
it seems like the court finds and
forfeitures. I mean, I don't know if
it's tickets or whatever, but it's seems
like it's on a on a downward slope. Is
that
>> what you're seeing?
>> It should be picking up significantly
now that I got more people. We're
working a lot more extra enforcement,
DMV grants,
ASAP type stuff and even parking
enforcement increasing over the past
» do a lot of your folks still have to
escort people to the hospital type thing
and have to stay there with them.
>> Oh yeah. And that's and that could be
somebody coming in from another
jurisdiction because we have the
hospital here,
>> right? that ties our people up a lot
more eco ts.
» Where are we?
91
>> 91
» 92
you good 93
This may be next to nothing as far as
things that go on, but one of the things
that I notice is
postage. We're asking for a whole lot
less than we have in the past, but it's
my understanding postage is going up. Is
that something we need to take another
look at or is that a pretty good figure?
>> Which um which department?
>> Well, just pick a department. I mean it
just there was several
>> mine's proposed to go down but
>> I send email. I don't worry.
>> Most of us because we created cost
centers and the electric fund is and now
we're sharing the postage cost electric
fund. I mean I'll give you a primary
example in the treasur's office. We've
been sending out disconnects and bills
out of the general funds postage and so
now we'll start allocating it to
electric fund instead of paying for it
out general fund.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Cuz one of the one of the ones was
it was for the treasur and it was half
of what it was last year. It's like
>> that's what they're talking about going
up to eight bucks or something like this
and we're we're coming down 50%.
>> Yeah. We're going to start allocating
our costs depending on function. So will
you bring that up vice mayor up like do
we need to talk about what we talked
about earlier about possibly
doing away with the post parson doing it
ourselves and stuff like that saving
money in the process stuff or do we need
to have discussion now later
» about having a postage
>> well like Mr. warning to holes at the
beginning to be doing away with the
mailing service, doing it ourselves,
putting it out, mailing it that way,
saving money and not having a mail.
Where's our mailing service? North
Carolina.
>> It's in Vernick. So, they pick it up
here and they take it to a mass
distribution center.
>> I'm fully in support of that because
we've had a lot of issues associated
with it. Also, we spend a lot of
staffing and stuffing like myself
director did that yesterday.
>> Yeah. Once we bought the equipment,
I it's really more of an operational
issue for me.
>> I I was going to say
>> I like knowing that when we send
something out, everybody's going to get
it.
>> I don't have that confidence right now.
>> I would say that would be up to the
staff because it's really a staff issue
and not
>> biggest issue is the startup cost for
the
>> correct just the folder inserter is over
$10,000 and then I'm guessing the
postage machine is another 5 to7,000. So
you're probably talking about 17 18
>> equipment.
>> Is it AMS? No, not AMS. What's the
>> automated mailing service?
>> And that in that contract is how much?
>> Um, it's a per item contract. So we pay
a slight premium over postage per piece
of mail.
>> Anyway, I'm sorry. That's really more of
an operational issue. It does have
upfront cost,
>> but it does have in each department like
poke in this department, purchases
in that department and stuff like that.
So that would if we done it all together
in one thing. Would you have that in
each?
>> Yes, we would still allocate the cost to
each department.
>> Yeah.
» But really at the end of the day, it's
not rocket science. So if you had a
couple reliable volunteers that would
come in then becomes
>> I can do it.
>> Well I mean
>> to your point we definitely know it's
not like a science
>> that's expensive.
>> Former Marine can do it.
>> You volunteer.
>> Yeah.
>> Put his name down. I might as well I
volunteer for everything else. So
>> we think you for yourself.
>> You continue talking about that.
>> You volunteered once. That's enough,
huh?
>> But but no, I think that's a between
staff to have break figure out the the
benefits and costs and all that.
>> Okay.
>> How how you would benefit from it.
>> The main thing is budget funding. We
would need to have it approved for
budget funding.
» I was just, you know, when I first read
over it, it was like, are we going to
get into, you know, August or, you know,
something? We need more money because we
spent we spent our allocation in in
postage already.
» Increase the rates again.
>> Yes,
» that's another topic.
>> I will say postage looks kind of high,
but it does also include things other
than just postage. It includes our
mailing envelopes as well.
I would say that would be discussion
y'all have to figure it out and let us
know.
>> We'll let you know what it cost.
>> Yeah.
>> All right.
>> 95.
>> Yeah.
>> 96.
>> I'm at 99. Sorry.
>> 132.
» 96. We're wrong.
>> Yes, sir.
chief up again. Sorry. Chief,
>> Jim, it's just I'm I'm concerned a
little bit about the overtime rate
for one. I mean, we're at it's projected
to be at $24,000.
I mean, that's I mean, I know that.
Can you kind of tell me how that plays
in or is it I mean is it like is it
going to be be more of uh folks having
to do the like say TDOS CCOs and things
like that or is it
>> that's part of it we do get some of that
money back
but there's also unfunded special
events. There's also things like
Halloween when we have everybody out
because it's such a dangerous situation
which is not a town function.
>> Correct. Um cost place for holiday
things like that. things I was actually
unaware of that.
>> Correct.
>> So, and and as I'm finally going to be
hopefully fully staffed, that should be
a little bit less extra over time as
well because we plan to handle
TDOS and ECOS is a big
>> I was I was I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> I was going to ask earlier uh we was
talking about the ECOS and TDOS's.
That's a Richmond generated thing. Do we
Is there any compensation that that we
get back from Richmond for doing that?
>> We get some of it back and there's
actually uh through Horizon there's a
special transport company that from time
to time will help us out. Best case
scenario sometimes we have to go serve
papers and they'll sit and transport
them but it doesn't happen very often.
So it's a work in progress. I know the
previous uh administration made some
strides towards helping and I'm hoping
that the current administration is going
to continue to to help us out with that
as well.
It's not a not a m magic bullet, but
mental health, which is something that
police have been pulled into in nearly
every state, which is really something
unless somebody's an immediate threat to
someone else, it's really something we
shouldn't be fooled with.
But you do
>> seems to get worse every year.
» There were a couple of bills passed this
year that should h that should help, but
I don't know if they were funded. Do you
know?
>> I don't know.
» And that does the does the overtime
include
officers you have on call?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. detectives are the only ones that
get
» and this isn't this next one's not
comment's not on you but we talked about
it before the next slide item is
compensation special events that's about
$12,000 but if we can start recouping
some of that then that goes toward
helping
>> out
an example we're over in that category
this year
>> so we're having regular
» thanks
Good.
>> And one other change I may want to just
point out is we did used to have career
enhancements separately and we've rolled
that into their compensation in 25. So
that's one change to increase
compensation.
97.
» I mean, we can go through each page, but
do you all have anything specific that
you have on I mean, we can just pull the
pages y'all have notes on and talk about
those or
>> up on 98.
>> Okay. up there
vehicle replacement
under the PD $272,000.
I know we've been doing the lease
program. The lease program has been
working very well for us. So, I'm just
trying to see why that number flatuated
that high this year.
>> Uh because we're slowly phasing out the
vehicles
that are getting to the end of life. So,
that's going to go up a little bit.
We're going to be adding additional
vehicles over the next couple years and
then we'll be a totally least.
» I see something new here because they
look very nice.
>> Yeah, I think it's important to keep the
guys in the gate vehicle that looks good
on the town and we're not having to have
vehicles in the shop constantly for
breakdowns.
>> Them challengers are building some real
problems today.
I think you had replacement engines in a
couple of them or something like that.
It's pretty expensive and time
consuming.
>> Well, yeah, I I was along the same wise
and explained some things to me which I
still don't understand. But my my
concern had been if you had looked at
the last two fiscal years and the
projection for the next one, we've spent
almost a million dollars in three years
on replacement vehicles. And I know that
they're being leased, but that's that's
a healthy sum of change. So, and you
mentioned how the accounting stuff works
and everything that we're only actually
paying like $15,000 a month, right?
>> Correct.
>> Yeah. Gatsby 87 is a new accounting
standard that came out a couple years
ago that plays into that. It requires
when you issue a new lease to take the
present value of all your lease payments
and record it as a revenue and expense
all in one year and then you start
advertising it with your normal
payments. But what that does is it sure
makes your financials look bad because
you're looking at how much you spent.
You're seeing that full lease cost hit
in one year. It's not really accurate.
You have to net it with revenue line
item as well.
>> I think also on that lease program once
we sell a vehicle back to them, we make
a little bit of money on it.
>> Yes, we do. So, we do pay a premium to
Enterprise for the lease program.
there's an interest that we pay and
that's how they make money on the
program. But when they sell it at the
end, we do rec recoup what they sell
over what we agree to and we almost
always end up on the positive side. We
do a great job.
My last my last question about what you
said is is there as you looked at it would there
be a potential cost savings to have
enterprise do the maintenance and upkeep
versus the town? I I don't know. I'm
just asking.
>> That's a good question. The last time
that I sat in, it's been two years, but
I will say the last time I sat in on a
boat, it was around 50 or 60 bucks per
month for a vehicle to add into the
fixed maintenance program. That means we
didn't pay if it went into the shop. So,
you would have to add 5060 a month. It
could be a little bit more now per
vehicle,
but you will see to look at their um
budget. If you look at outside repair in
their garage, you can see the studying
has gone down substantially
cuz we started the program back in 23 I
think
» repair outside garage which I wish you
had 22 you could see 22 versus 23 you'd
see a very large drop but
>> how many deer you hit
At least you're doing
>> We had one deer strike cost 14 grand.
>> Oh yeah.
>> At least you're doing your part to
reduce the deer. That's right.
>> Is that the deer eradication program?
» That's pretty expensive.
>> One shot, one kill.
» Yeah. I mean, I just it's just it'd be
something that would be interesting to
see, I think, if uh but yeah, it looks
like it's gone down. It's just
I'm sure he's got a lot of his hands
full working fixing other things as
well, too.
All right.
99. We're good.
You want to pick a paper?
90 99.
>> Okay. Uh
community development along the same
lines of the auto repairs, outside
garage.
What does $50 cover in any type of
outside garage repair?
>> It's it's a placeholder.
We have the code enforcement vehicles
and we used to have to have a line item
charge to if something goes wrong. You
could zero it out.
And in fact, there might even be a few
line items like that that are like $50
interspersed.
If you're agreeable, we could zero those
out and put them in contingency.
As long as you all understood that we
might actually hit the contingency at
some point. That That's what it is.
>> Well, I mean, at at a $50 limit, I
expect we're going to hit contingency
need. We we just when we when we zero
things out, sometimes either the system
or council then is tempted to do away
with the line item and sometimes things
come up that we don't expect and we need
to code them to something appropriate
like the settlement of the uh scale
house issue at the county. We had to
scramble to find a lot item to get that
expenditure from. So that that's it's
just an accounting and transparency
item.
Yeah,
we won't spend $50. We spend anything,
it's going to be more than that, but
we'll pull it out of contingency.
Just just want to make sure that the
line item doesn't go away. We'll
transfer it from contingency to this
line item if something comes up.
>> Is that process simpler than just paint
it out of the contingency?
>> Well, I mean, I'd say we'll we'll we'll
let you know that's what we're doing.
Is it simpler to know? Is it more
transparent? Yes.
» All right.
>> Page 101. 101.
>> General Administration Garage Materials
and Supplies 20 grand.
Is that the same thing?
» Yeah. This is where our garage orders
out. I think I would like to create
account under the garage, but the reason
And I understand why they don't have
budget there. It's cuz they don't have
an account there.
So the garage is 1044350
on page 104. Maintenance and motor
vehicles. That's our in garage right
there. But you'll see they don't have a
line item for
supplies. So it's coded to general
administration.
Okay.
>> Uh,
103.
>> 103.
>> I thought he said 101.
on 102. I just had a quick just I mean
the the under the B the contract
services
is now showing a $60,000
contract services. Is that
just what is that?
>> It's hurt and profit, right?
>> Correct.
>> I'm sorry.
>> We used to have a staff person dedicated
to doing the annual reporting and
tracking. We've outsourced that to her
profit.
>> Thank you.
and might save a little bit of money on
benefits in the process.
» There's also line item up above and
general engineering 20,000 for non
» where 103
>> 103
>> top of the page vehicle replacement 75
grand. What's what vehicle is that?
What what that's about is is uh public
works to a point we're going to get
involved in the enterprise program as
well for the pickups and anything that
does not uh require air brakes
enterprise will handle. So that's the
initial to get involved in that. And one
thing I did want to bring up was to your
point that's for f that's the beginning
of five vehicles. I have more than that will so next year you know increase
to a point and then it'll level out but
that's the that's the intent for that
and that is B do funds uh that can be
and I got verification that can be used
to start that program
» on the same page Tom just this is no on
any anybody or anything I'm just curious
on the snow and ice removal Uh we've got
about the revised budget was for this
year was about 44,000. Next year we're
looking at maybe 43. And my question
would be is there any uh benefit to
contracting that service out? I would be
you think it'd be cheaper.
I mean I know
>> to be honest I don't know what they
charge. Um the benefit would be I would
stop getting complaint calls
people driveway.
>> That would be a benefit.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but beyond I don't know what they
charge. Um one thing I will add in going
back to the 75 the five new vehicles uh
that I will be getting through
Enterprise will all be outfitted with uh
snow plows. Okay.
>> They'll come with them.
>> Okay. and as well. So, we'll also have
blades and different things in reserve
that should be able to be universal. Um,
but uh to be honest with you,
boy, that's a hard typ it's it's VOTE
funded though, right?
>> Yeah.
>> So, there's no there's no real financial
benefit to us, but operationally, you
might want to look at
>> Yeah. I mean, I I really think it's an
operational. Yeah, we thought I guess
it's a reimbursement or we can charge to
them for a lot of like the maintenance
and and the product audit.
>> It would really be a you know,
>> so so that actual 43,000 is we get some
of that back.
>> So, kind of how it works is VOTE gives
us in the revenue side 2.3 million based
on our streets. There's a formula, but
we then get to allocate how we spend it.
just has to be an eligible expense.
>> Okay. All right.
>> And to be candid, we have no earthly
idea how much we're going to spend on
snow and ice at any given point.
>> Yeah.
>> Just to be honest,
>> Yeah. I mean, it could be a light year
and then it could be another slammer.
>> Yeah.
Okay.
>> But the nature is very unpredictable.
And I will say this uh to add to the
contract uh thing u
our our employees know where the
boundaries are. They know the streets.
They know where to go. They know what
needs to be scraped. Bring outside
contractors in. They're going to have to
have guidance. You have to show them.
You're going to have to lead them. So
some of our employees would still have
to be out there with it anyway. So you
have to weigh both options.
>> Oh yeah.
But it's a good idea.
» All right. What's next, gentlemen?
104
cemetery maintenance
from 2500 to 10,000.
a minute. We uh we had agreed to do some
uh pay for some headstone
uh refurbishment this year. There's a
gentleman and I'm sorry I don't remember
his name. I don't know if you I think
his first name is John, but he comes
every year and does like a class at um
Longwood and um or demonstration and he
you know refurbish it. He picks like
five or 10 and refurbish it. So last
year he made a presentation to us that
he he offered up a a a cost estimate to
do 10 or to do 20 or to do whatever we
wanted. And so we we added to that we're
going to do uh 10 this coming year. So
that's what that increase for. It cover
his cost to repair and update not update
but just to clean and repair some of the
old stuff is what that what that
increase charge is about.
on 104.
One quick question. So on the
maintenance of municipal and I'm
assuming that that proposed budget, it
dropped dramatically because we're
looking at doing contract and
everything. Okay.
>> That's the hope. Yes, sir.
» That's the hope.
>> Well, I mean, yeah, I know. I know.
Well, you know what happens when you
open the can?
>> Oh, I know.
>> Carl says sharing some of the cost of
this house is all collection.
» What were you? 105
>> 107
Hy says
>> other nondep department
says contingency $332,788.
» That's the amount planned for the CIP
debt issuance for this building. And
then the equipment
page
09
picking on you chief. brothers have a
question for me.
>> It says cop camp expenditure is $10,000
there, but if you go back to the police
department, it says cop camp
expenditures 5,000 there.
» I think it's a donation account.
>> I just want
>> That's the donation.
>> That's what I was asking. I just saw two
different ones already.
>> Yeah. Fund 10 is the amount that you
think local funding is going to need to
supplant it to make it free for coping.
This is how much donated and restricted
funds you
almost at 110.
>> 110.
>> We are 110.
>> Questions on 110?
» Good.
>> Yeah. Okay. All right.
>> We are in solid weight.
>> Yes, we are.
» What is that?
>> All right. 11 112. Page 112.
Any questions?
Pretty
self-explanatory.
113
down here had the groundwater and
monitoring old and ground monitoring new
$120,000 went from 40 to 100. Are we
paying somebody to do that now? Yes, we have been actually we get an updated
uh review by DEEQ every so often.
The old landfill is the one farther out
on Orange Street. The new landfill is
the one next to the transfer station.
But
>> yeah, in the past there was 85,000 split
out into a different line.
But uh
>> on the next page you'll see
another
WSB associates are the ones that have
the contract for monitoring and
we will be doing that in perpetuity.
>> Is everything looking okay so far?
>> Yes. I mean we're
>> if I can add to that we did send that
out to bid.
>> Yes. Okay. get bids onreased
but they still
>> and we are in compliance. We get those
notifications.
>> That's one of the emails I forward to
you every now and again from DEQ.
>> That's amazing how much it cost. It was
very surprising to me and
>> we had no choice on that
>> have to do it.
We're 114
questions
and 115
» on 114 tires and tubes from 6,000 to
27,000.
» I think that was to dispose of what you
have, right?
>> Yeah. Um, you know, that that kind of
goes back some of the issues. Uh, we
have a rubber tire loader that we use to separate the trash. The tires are
completely bold. They are $27,000
a piece.
» So that's good.
>> An attempt to move towards that
unless we move forward with
>> Yep.
>> doing something else with it. I don't
want to, you know,
then that could possibly
>> So that can go as part of
>> we could sell that to whoever would be
operating.
could be disposed of.
>> We just don't know that right now.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, that would that is a good
point there in that what amount of
equipment would we not need?
>> That that would be it. No, you don't
have to say it now, but
>> that would be a good
>> consider. Yes, consideration. That's why
I open my statements with that. They're
just
>> unknown. Obviously, we we've had uh the
offer of to purchase all four of the or
all three of the garbage trucks, the
rolloff trucks, all the tractors, all
the uh the se our track semi-tractors
and trailers uh down. I mean, it was all
kind of a allincclusive but with the
right to keep what I deemed I wanted
>> essential. Yes. Okay.
>> I mean, we had that in office for that.
So, uh,
>> yeah,
>> that's what I mean. It's really kind of
>> Yeah,
>> big expensive like that power load. It's
a great I did utilize that a lot this
past in the last snow that we had when
it all turned to ice.
>> Yes,
>> our regular trucks wouldn't even touch
the ice. Couldn't push it. It just
bounced right off.
>> But we did utilize that tractor as best
we could cuz the tires were not in the
best shape. So, it was spinning a bit,
but it was the only
move any of that ice. So, it's, you
know, it's a bit of a
>> Okay.
» Thank you.
>> pros and cons.
>> Yeah.
>> All right. 115. You good?
» Well, okay. Got a solid waste pretty
quick. All right. Electric fund.
What questions do you have?
» There's always question questions about
this, so don't be shy.
>> 117,
>> right, John?
>> Hopefully, this year's a little
different.
>> This is just
>> I think you've answered a lot of them as
we have gone along.
I mean, not just today, but in the past.
So this is for me it was just a a
curious question that the electricity
sales on the open market uh it's it's
showing a reduction. I mean I was just
curious
with such high demand outside where why
how why do we have a reduction?
>> Well in as we planned last year for this
um we have we're planning for growth. So
we're presuming that we'll consume more
than we are now right now. Um so we
expect you know that's what we expect
plus usage has gone up so we're we're
consuming more. Got
>> um
that's makes sense.
>> U we are going to be a little more
aggressive in our um short-term
purchases going forward. So that may
result in a little bit more sales.
But um we want to avoid something that
hap like happened last year.
What I think
one light
120
So, couple questions on one.
>> Okay.
» Bad debt
>> dispense $50,000 went from an $8,000 to
50,000. Is that
>> what is that?
>> At the bottom page is the page. Yes,
sir.
>> Probably.
Um yeah, we were um
you know, we got new rules from Richmond
about what we can do in terms of
termination,
but yeah, we were looking back to 25 uh
on that. Um
I don't know that 25 was an unusual
year. I don't know why it was so high.
Do we have a specific write off? here. I
know why it was because we had several
years of write offs that were approved
by council that we finally processed in
the system and it was it was a lot of
them all the way back to 2018.
>> Okay. So, it will probably come in lower
than that
>> when we uh experience it, but we I don't
know if there's any new rules in the
shut off uh this year coming up.
>> I think there was something.
>> I will tell you that they're significant
because we can't cut off till 45 days.
We do have much larger balances at the
point that we're cutting off,
>> right?
>> Okay. And that one was wire fees.
>> Last time we had a wire fee was in 2023.
Now we got a wire fee of 500,000.
>> This is where if you decide to absorb
credit card fees, we put it in there for
you. We didn't want to create an account
until we knew for sure what direction
council wanted to take.
I'm hoping that you see that and say,
"Oh my goodness, we don't want to do
that."
>> That's my request.
>> The good news is the price came in at
half of what we thought, but still,
that's a lot. 250,000 would be the true
cost.
>> That's a new truck for us.
>> So, so we would So, basically, we would
be covering the cost of the credit card
fees for our customers
>> if you Yes. So, we decided to do that. I
estimate that if you have 75% of your
customers take advantage of the rates I
was given from the merchant processor
the talent pay around 250,000 a year
but on the inverse at what we charge our
customers if we have 30% utilization
they are paying out of their pockets
around 332,000 a year
>> if if it matters to you to compare to
another community Salem's doing exactly
the opposite they had been carrying this
cost they're moving away from it. So
different utilities manage different
ways.
>> Yeah,
>> it's it's really a philosophical issue.
It's a convenience, right?
>> So that all customers pay for that
convenience or just the customers that
take advantage of it. That's what it
comes down to in my mind. I I would like
to see us and I know Bart and you talked
about this is have a drive up window
someplace around here where folks can
just drive up and that would be I think
another convenience but a whole lot less
than this maybe taking a step like that
would be in the right direction or uh
Andrew probably considered this but
having some of the banks take payments
you know they already have the drive up
facility there so I would like to see
something like that before we go this
route.
>> Hey John, on the same page, building the
ground maintenance 60,000 more goes from
uh 40 to 100,000.
>> Let's see.
>> Building grounds maintenance the
building that you're in or
>> No, what that is uh right now we're
seeing underground maintenance. That's a
lot of the new underground work that
we're doing for these new new
developments. Everything is underground.
It's going in that account. We do get
reimbursed.
>> Okay.
>> A good percentage of that.
>> I saw that. I thought it
» we haven't given direction on that.
>> The payment is I mean
>> not yet.
>> Well, that no that is for
>> um the replacement out by the hospital.
What we
>> have to replace the underground system
there?
>> When do we need to get direction on that
or are we going to discuss that?
>> Oh, they're paying 159.
>> Okay. But
>> is the ancillary discussions in
>> our thought is
>> I think we can have that discussion
right now
>> work out there is what we put in the
>> 250 as opposed to 500.
>> So maybe they should be
>> so we can lower it down to 250 if we
continue.
>> Hey, excuse me folks. We
>> Hey Ann and John, we need you back here.
They want to talk about the credit card.
>> Okay. Sorry.
>> So, so our question is, do you need an
answer on that or direction?
>> Yeah, we need to know which contract to
sign, which way to go.
>> Okay. All right. Now, explain the
options again. Option A and B or what you prefer if you have a
preference.
>> It's definitely
>> there's pros and cons. No matter which
way you go.
>> Okay.
One second. I have a sheet that I kind
of
>> I committ to pay cash flow not to pay
the fee.
>> That's right.
» You pay the fee, don't you?
>> I don't have that much cash.
» Sorry. that
>> I will tell you that on my calculation
that if you choose to absorb fees, Visa,
Mastercard, and Discover will offer you
a low rate that they don't offer unless
you choose to absorb it. And so that
rate is normally around 95 cents a
swipe. If you choose to pass fees on to
a customer, it's normally around 1% of
the transaction charge or 1 to 2% of the
swipe. So if you start having very large
electric bills like our largest customer
where their bill may be $90,000 a month
and you're now charging $3.95% to them,
it's a very large fee.
So there it's pros and cons. So our rate
today would be 3.95% that the customer
would have to pay when they come in to
swipe their card. We don't pay anything.
they pay that fee, but for them it could
be thousands of dollars that they're
paying of fees. Now, conversely, if we
choose absorb fees, then we would be
paying half a percent of the charge to
our merchant processor and we'd be
paying a 95 cent swipe fee and then we'd
be paying an assessment fee of around
0.0017%
per month. So, I estimate in total if
you had 75% of your customers take
advantage of us paying the credit card
fees, it would be around 250,000 a year
that the town would pay out of our
pockets. Now, if you say, "No, we don't
want to do that. We want to pass the
fees on to customers." I did a quick
estimate where if you had around 30% of
your customers pay by credit card and
they pay the 3.95% fee, they're paying
around $332,000
out of their pockets
>> if they do it each month.
>> Correct.
>> Because I know a lot of places now
charge like 3%
>> for using a credit card.
>> That's right. I mean, a lot of
restaurants,
but but still that's not when you only
have like 112 bill, it's not a lot, but
we're talking electric bills,
>> right?
>> So, it kind of goes back to my original
question.
Okay. But
if I'm out of state, another state, and
I realize my electric bill is due, I can
call you all and say, I want to pay my
electric bill by credit card, but I'll
pay 3.9%.
>> Correct?
>> Which which at that point in time, as I
said earlier, that's a lot cheaper than
a disconnect or reconnect. Yeah. So, I
would do that. So, can I do that now?
Right now, we have a $4.95
charge. So, it doesn't matter how much
your bill is, it's capped at $4.95.
However, you can only do a $1,000
payment transaction. So, if you have a
$90,000 bill, you're making 90 payments
on our system.
>> Kind for weaving
>> and you're paying $4.95 a piece. Cannot
confirm more demand.
>> Yes. Okay. Well, okay. What do you
think?
>> Can I just add a little bit about about
the large customer? The reason why
they're doing that because they get 2%
back on their
>> So it's it's an economic question for
them. Do they want to get the 2% back or
they want to pay the fee?
>> Yeah.
>> So for us to pick that up, I don't think
that's legitimate myself.
>> You know, they can still make that
decision.
>> I mean, I I'm just voicing my thoughts.
I would pay that, but but I'm not going
to do it every month. So, in a situation
where, as I just described, I would do
that for one month, but normally I'm
kind of like Con, I'm going to pay mine
each month by by check or he he's got
the cash, put the
>> I just go get it, pay.
>> There are pros and cons. I think if you
absorb fees, more people are willing to
pay it by credit card, and you probably
get our collections faster. There's
probably reduces the amount of
disconnects because you have more people
willing to put it on credit. There are
some pros to collections on credit
cards, but like John said, that's a
significant amount of money that you're
paying at fees. So, you have to weigh
the two
>> and which way you want to go.
>> So, the current system's going away
then.
>> Yeah. We're not going to be able to keep
the 495. Yeah.
>> It's been great for a while.
>> I know.
>> Okay. Absolutely.
>> I've been in the the credit card market
and just looking at the different
benefits and stuff that, you know,
certain companies have and there's a lot
of them out there that will give you
rewards or cash back kind of thing, you
know, for for and and utilities is a is a recognized, you know, payment
kind of thing.
um you know
so yeah it's you know our our large
customer he's going to be getting
>> yeah he's paid from us and then paid
from somebody else
>> there there's reasons for it to happen
>> I mean this would be more work for you
guys I know but I mean is there would
there be a way that the town absorbs it
but then we pass 2% or whatever on to
>> they won't allow us to do that the
credit card companies rule on It is you
only get this disc discounted swipe rate
if you decide to absorb the if you pass
anything on to your customer then you
get the full rate.
>> Well, we would indirectly pass it along
because this is socializing the cost. So
everybody would pay it through rates. So
somehow we do a rate study. This will be
figured into the rate study and then
everybody even though you don't use it,
you're going to be paying for it.
>> Yeah, I'll pay it but you got you guys will get the benefit.
That's true. But you can't get that rate
unless you choose to absorb it. So, it's
one of those all or nothing decisions.
>> I just think it's a lot of money.
>> I'm thinking the same thing. Plus, we
don't really know how many would do
that, do we? I mean,
>> yeah. This is based on assuming 75%
usage. So, if you only had 50% and that
drops significantly, the cost would only
be like 50.
>> You're still paying money. the town is.
>> Yeah.
I sw
>> the other thing as Bart pointed out,
Salem, who we often compare ourselves
to, is is currently absorbing the fees,
but in their next budget there, they
won't be because it just got to be too
big of a number.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I I'm advocating that we don't go
down that road.
>> I'm thinking
>> I'm okay either way. I will say it would
make collections a lot easier. It's
going to be very difficult to convince
people to pay with a 3.95% fee and we
will get a lot of complaints from our
customers on paying the fee, but we're
happy to do whatever we need to do.
» Well, I mean, it's it's up to the I
think it ends up being up to the
individual they want to pay by credit
card or not. So,
>> what's the fee for the AC
thing? If you do it through our online
platform, it'll be a $1.50 per e check.
And if you do it through us, there's no
charge.
» So there's
>> So you could do a check right through.
No charge right through.
>> That's right. Now, is there fees
associated with that that we pay? Yes,
absolutely. But right now, we're eating
those fees
>> in addition to what we'd be doing if we
opt for the 500. Correct. But we are
eating those today. It's just included
in our banking fees that we have
compens. It's very complicated, but
essentially we have a compensated
balance that we maintain with our bank
and we earn interest on that balance.
And then we get charges for each check
that we write, everything that the AC
that we process and if we have enough
money in our checking account, we don't
get a fee for those things. So we have
to balance that every month to make sure
we have enough money in the thing to not
get charged a fee for services. So yes,
we do get charged for the AC program
that we do from our bank, but we keep
enough cash on hand to not take it.
>> Yeah, but the customer doesn't have to
pay anything for
>> but as a town we do,
>> right?
>> We have a cost.
>> Um,
I'd kind of like to go with the 250 and
just use that maybe something that the
town can promote. You know, yeah, we
have these fees associated. However, you
can avoid those if you use the town of
Beverage platform for for payment
and that'll keep your your balances up
and
but on the flip side of that,
you're saying pass the 3.9%
to the customer and then
what do we pay then? Anything?
>> We don't pay anything, but I'm
estimating that our customers are paying
out of their pocket around 344,000 or
that's what they will pay. If we had 30%
usage,
» that's all total customer.
>> That's 75% if they do that.
>> That's only 30. I'm only assuming if we
pass the fee on only 30% of our
customers will likely use the service.
So they will pay collectively 344,000
in fees
>> if they do it each month.
So we're subsidizing if I wanted to do
that's that's
>> so the other way we're subsidizing them
using the credit card.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Right.
>> Or we're paying for them.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes. You would be paying around $224,000
for 75% of your customers to use their
card versus assigning the fees out. It
would be 30% usage and they would pay
around 344,000 out of their pocket.
And then the question is, is it worth
$250,000
for that convenience of us collecting
more
>> for 30%.
>> Collecting? Yeah. Can we're collecting
Well, 35 40% I would say. You said 30%
pay with credit card. If we don't do it,
if we do it, you're you're estimating
could be up to 75%. So, we're paying
we're we're paying um $250,000 for 40%
of the customer to use the system.
>> Yeah.
No, keep it keep
>> So 60% of the customers are paying for
that 40%.
>> Yes, that that's it.
>> So I'm like what we talked about just
>> well the assumption on 75% is 75% of
your customers would be using the credit
card and that's where the 224 comes
from.
>> Yeah. And that's but if they don't then
it' be 30% using a credit card. That's
where I'm coming up with that percentage
of about 40%. So we're paying Yeah. 60%
of the customers are paying for 40% to
use it.
>> Well, I will say if 40 So if usage goes
down, the fee goes down.
>> Yeah.
>> If you only have if you if I estimate
75, that's kind of a very high usage
percentage. It's probably going to be
less. So your fees drop. It's a periph.
that it's likely if you had like if I
changed the number to 50% you would see
that go down significantly.
» So which which system is advantageous to
the
>> depends on your end goal
>> depends on if you want to collect more
or if you want to not have the funds in
the bank.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Well, keep in mind that we're
collecting 99% of our
>> revenue anyway. We have very low
uncollectibles. So, it's not going to
benefit us there. It's strictly a
convenience.
>> So, I would suggest the first thing we
do is give them a drive up window where
they can pay. That's more convenient.
Drive up, bang, you're gone. And then,
>> but there is costs associated with that.
Like, you need to remodel or you'd have
to pay the banks a collection fee.
>> Okay. Well, let's look at that. Let's
see what it is. But I think a drive up
window someplace, some arrangement
for convenience makes sense. I mean, you
can pay your AppCo bill where at CVS or
I know Southside you can pay at CVS. So,
I don't know what Appco does.
>> No, just to me it's economics. I mean,
you you end up I mean, we throughout
this whole meeting, we've been talking
about uh hemorrhaging money, and now
we're going to make a decision to
hemorrhage more money.
>> That's right. That's right. That's
right.
>> If that said, the best option is
>> cut.
>> Yeah. Couldn't have,
» right?
>> Yeah.
Well, you just never get the complaints.
>> But yes, we're not. Our largest customer
is going to be very, very unhappy
>> other than that.
>> And how many of those do we have? M
mainly one. So, and we don't need to go
there.
>> But but is that I mean with that if I
want to use my credit card, it I'm
paying it. That's my decision.
>> Yeah. And like let's say a bill like an
average bill or it could be in the
winter. Let's say you have a $330 bill
>> and you have to pay convenience fee of
3.95% you'd be paying $13 convenience
fee.
>> I think uh I know Appalachin or yeah
Appalachin's been doing it for years
because I know in my son's early days of
marriage I paid his bill a couple times
online and I think they charged like
five or 7%. it was a lot more. Uh so
yeah, but
they're they're there and we're here.
But but yeah, I think something like
that is more up to the individual. If
you want to use a credit card for that,
then so be it. But we should not have to
encumber any of the expenses or I mean,
y'all speak up here.
» What What are you saying?
>> You You're over there. You you're
» if you want to pay by credit card,
that's your decision.
>> That's that's what I'm saying.
>> I pay cash. A lot of times when I go on
vacation, I will pay cash.
>> Well, that's because I don't want to pay
that fee.
>> Well, I'm saying you're a man of that
means I have to use
later.
>> And if the m if the matter is the
drive-through box idea, we're going to
do it. just takes changing the oneway
traffic going that way to that way so
it's on the driver's side.
>> So
>> we'll do that eventually whether it's in
conjunction with the renovations or we
go ahead and do it just
>> switch some parking and put and switch
the oneway signs. But
>> yeah
talking about
>> well not necessarily. It could just be
like a a mailbox and just drop it in a
box.
>> Mainly people just don't want to get out
of the car.
>> That's right.
>> Yeah.
>> You don't have a car.
>> It's easily done but it's a little
complicated. That's all. Does that give
you direction?
>> Yes.
>> Are we okay with that?
>> 250.
>> So, they will have a 3.95%
fee and a $2.50 minimum
>> and there won't be any there won't be
any cost.
>> No cost to the town.
>> Good. So, it's
>> cut completely
>> good. Yeah. Okay. All right. Where are
we? 13.
121.
122
» one.
Don't stop me if I'm going too fast.
123 24
>> one clarification. The $500,000 that was
budgeted. Where would council like to
move that?
You you could use that to offset some of
the
undercolction for
the um PCA.
>> I like that idea.
>> Is that the benefits of the customers?
>> We could use that to offset some of the
underolction from the PCA.
>> Oh, okay.
>> So, wait. So, you're wanting us to
subsidize the cost of the PCA. Again,
>> I'm wanting you to generously offset
some of the cost for your customers.
Yes to both.
>> So we're back to the same. Yeah.
>> Well, I mean I think the five like you
mentioned earlier that and something
that we were maybe saving turn 50. You
said that was a truck. Well 500,000 is
two trucks. So
>> true.
>> That's what I'd rather it go to than
>> true. Y.
>> So do
>> that's me. I mean that's just one voice.
How much will we need for that?
>> The PCA under recovery un the way it's
calculated was $1.9 million.
>> But that could also or bring it down.
>> Correct.
Considerably.
>> Correct. And recall I think under the
last five or six PCAs, the council
decided to share the cost uh with
customers and to the tune of about 50%.
But that's why we kept dropping in our
that's why we're where we are at 91
days.
>> Yeah,
>> that's true. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
I agree.
>> Yeah. No, you're you're right. Yeah.
>> Y'all comfortable with that?
>> We're just
remaking
>> Yeah.
>> decisions that has come back and bite
us.
>> Exactly.
>> Well,
and that's why I Well, we'll go back to
the thing again. Is it is it worth
keeping the electric department if we're
having to fund $500,000$100
million every 6 months to cover it?
>> Well, again, we're we're anticipating in
the future that we can get that under
control better. Remember, it was one
event. It was the polar vortex that
happened. Otherwise, we would be in much
better shape. So, uh, in the future,
we'll we'll be more aggressive with, uh,
hedging so that we don't have that issue
as much. We can't we're not going to be
100%. We don't have a crystal ball. So,
um, I I don't have any issue with trying
to advertise that cost over a longer
period of time or offsetting some of it
with capital reserve or reserves, I
should say.
>> I'm okay with that.
>> J, you okay with that? I'm thinking
>> I just I just see it I I still see it as
us I still see it as as as paying
>> kicking down the road
>> kicking it down the road again.
>> We're we're going we're reverting
instead of
>> I know. But I but I see us kicking this
bee down the road again.
>> Yeah.
>> And going back to what we've been doing
over the past years got us into the
position we're in. Well, if if the rates
would ever stabilize to any degree,
which we've done, it's kind of like
well,
>> it's unpredictable
>> and it doesn't look like it's going to
stabilize. It looks like it's cost is
going to keep going up right now with
some of the things that I've seen done
by the state and the governor.
>> Yep. We're going to have more discussion
on this in the next council meeting. So,
you know, we'll take all this into
consideration and we'll revisit it and
see where you guys want to go. You don't
have to make that decision.
>> Yeah, I was going to say we don't have
to decide.
>> Well, we have to for the budget, though.
>> I need to know where to put the
>> You need to know where to put the money.
>> Well, if you don't do anything, it would
just lapse into
>> decide where it goes later.
>> It would, but it goes into supervision
and engineering and so they may want to
move it into contingency. It's not.
>> Yeah. Yeah. We could put it somewhere
that we could pull it out.
>> Yeah. Yeah. No. Well, I think Ann was
saying if if you need to decide if you
want to leave it here or put it into
contingency.
It doesn't change the amount of the of
the u of the budget, but it's just her
classification of where
>> that's we would want somewhere where we
can go out and do that if necessary. So
contingency I think is what
>> you put it on the council
decide right we go to bill
>> yeah
okay what's next we're at 124 where you
at
124 124 couple questions all right
contract cleaning $25,000
small equipment tools 17,000. It won't
none in 26 by 2027. Is that just
standard stuff that you need to continue
what you're doing on the rightway crew?
>> Yeah, the contract clearing, you know, a
few years ago we had a large amount in
there. This is for like spraying uh and
uh the supplemental uh work that we do
uh or specialized clearing along some of
the transmission lines. We don't have
the equipment to reach high enough to do
some of the clearing. So, this is
supplemental to what we do. Um, and it's
just an ef an effort to keep some of the
lines more clear than what they are. Um,
yeah.
>> And then the small equipment and tools.
Yeah, we we go through a lot of chains,
chainsaws, all that kind of stuff. So,
that's what that's for. Uh, this is the
excuse me, the rideway crew. And uh as
you noticed last year we had nothing in
there. So they really wore down what
they had last year because we had to
stretch.
And last one is u payment in lie of tax
559,181.
What is that?
>> It's going to the general fund. And so
if this was a private entity that's the
amount of taxes we calculated they would
pay.
That's if they were
>> right. So if this was a entity that
wasn't a government tax exempt, they
would
>> Yeah. Like if it was one of the other
power companies, that's what they would
pay out.
>> They have personal property, real
estate.
>> Goes back to what you
>> Yeah. At the beginning of the meeting we
talked about. Yeah.
>> Make it makes it cleaner than just see
it transition.
>> Yeah.
>> Then explains it better
>> and and it limits to that certain
amount.
and it's principle. This was something
that Darren showed
his horse on and yelled about every
single year on council was what is the
transfer? Well, we sat down and figured
out this is really what we need to be
» before we get out of electric. The
question that I had for you two at the
end of one of the breaks as far as the interest off of the A lease,
>> is that going to have an impact on this
budget or the next budget cycle?
>> I think it's this budget cycle.
>> Okay.
>> I think it needs to be removed from this
budget cycle. We could net it against
the 500,000 in contingency.
>> Okay. Okay, cuz I was how's that going
to impact John's budget then if that
>> decrease of 232,000? What council member
update is referring to is we were
receiving interest from a lease that we
had a lease purchase on a substation
that we financed through debt and that
ends this year. So they will not own
that substation no longer lease from us.
So we will not get interest earnings off
of that anymore.
>> Is a still supplying that customer? Mhm.
>> It's the um paper
>> paper mill.
Yeah.
But wouldn't our debt expense Well, it's
going away.
>> It is. Yeah, it has. So, you'll see
there's no debt in this budget.
» Which is a weird thing to say.
>> I've been working for 11 years to get us
to this point. Even if it's only for one
year, I'm going to consider it a
success.
I don't think I've ever had a budget
fund with no debt. It's rather
» All right,
take land.
Where are we?
126. Okay.
question 122.
I had my question answered earlier.
128 component units.
All right. 128
economic development authority EDA.
We know how that works.
Any questions? Just a note on the EDA
and the housing authority, those boards
do adopt their budget separately. So, we
display it in here just as a FYI, but we
do have to take it to those boards for
adoption.
» 129.
» Anybody good?
30
development and housing authority.
» Everybody authority should get paid.
» You want to make a motion?
>> Are you recommending a tax increases? Is
that what you say? What? Wait, we got
500,000.
>> Exactly. Perfect.
>> I'm kidding.
No uh 131.
» Okay. No questions.
>> We finally at 132.
>> 132 3 hours ago.
>> And fees. He will fasttrack it earlier,
but uh these delays
taxes and fees
133.
What do y'all have to say about this?
Everybody okay with that? Yeah, I'd had
a a note here about the same thing that
council form brought up at the
beginning, but um
town's real estate tax and how it
relates to the others. But uh um I think
if you look at all the taxes, the
totality of all the taxes, we're
I don't know that we're we're cheaper
than everybody else around, but uh we're we're ballpark, I think. So,
I'm good.
I would say we're comfortable.
I think we're pretty close.
>> I do have one question. I mentioned
something to the town manager a while
back about the muring tool talked
about, you know, maybe looking at going
up on that any or anything like that. We
just brought that into the equation two
years ago.
>> No, that's always been a tax. When we
reverted, we set it at a rate that's
practically nothing
>> because
we get beaten up a lot for people
getting double taxed.
>> We pay town taxes for town services,
county taxes for county services.
Unfortunately, many cases were limited
to the same sources of revenue. So, we
set the machinery and tools tax at
effectively zero, but we didn't get rid
of it.
mainly because we didn't want to
completely give it up if we ever found
ourselves in need of a revenue source.
» Okay.
>> And my colleagues ask me about that all
the time. Why is it one millionth of a
cent? That's why. Well, when we're
looking to make up a4 million dollars, I
mean,
this this may be the time to
>> to Councilman Haley's point, it's
>> there if you want to talk about it.
>> I just think we need to just talk about
it. I don't mean we got it.
>> Well, I mean, I think it's it's an
important I mean, I've been, you know,
y'all know I've been kind this drunk a
little bit in that
Where's the money coming from? Make up
for the shortfalls we're going to start
having.
I mean, staff has done, I think, a great
job trying to uh,
you know, be more efficient, more lean.
Uh, but it's at some point you've got to
start looking where it's about revenue.
If we stay static, then I mean,
just be honest, Dan. We're going to be
Yeah, we won't be losing. continue to
lose money. And so is that different?
>> We have a We know what one cent gets us.
>> I just pulled it up. Yeah. One penny is
$4,116.
» That's how much a penny of machinery
tools would be.
>> Business furniture and fixture. I would
say it would be about 2,000 for that.
There's,
as I was looking there, there's one that
we there's a licensing fee if you go all
the way back that everybody else charges
on vehicles.
>> Vehicle license
>> decal.
>> Yeah, decal fee. I mean, that's one that
we don't that everybody else charges
that we don't.
>> And that would be a way to have some
income if you're looking at that. And
that would be um I think a fair way to
do it where it would be it would cover
everybody in the town that owns a
vehicle, but it would also um cover the
cost without charging extra fees on the
personal property tax because the the
state already covers that. We then again
that's a double tax where you're paying
personal property tax and the town. This
fee will be an individual tax for those
living in the town and it's not a double
tax. I mean the machine machinery tools
again is a double tax because you're
paying it to they're paying it to the
county all already. Um but we've got
many others that are double taxing
people
>> as is an individual tax because we don't
pay the county doesn't charge that
because they can't. Right.
>> Right.
>> No, the county could.
>> They could but they don't. Okay. So
that's that's an individual tax we do.
But machinery tools they already charge
at
>> and we would be charging the same one.
But I was looking for things that maybe
we weren't double getting the same
person paying twice on there. Does the
county charge a decay fee?
>> No. Either one of us do.
>> Cuz if the county does and then the town
started, then it would just flip it from
the county to the town. So it be neutral
for everybody. But because the catchy
doesn't then it'll be it'll be a new one
just for the town res.
>> Yeah. As of our last assessment we had
9,364
vehicles. So if I say that 90% of those
are BLF eligible that's 168,000
a $20 vehicle license fee.
>> I mean if you wanted to bring extra tax
in that's the way to do it. I mean it's
but there are other things like um Jay
was just mentioning um that we don't
have anybody issuing parking tickets
right now. So we raise the fines but
there's parkings everywhere and there's
no one doing it. There's ways to do it
without hiring somebody to do it all the
time like they do in other cities where
they put QR codes where you where you
pay your fee to park. You scan it and
pay your fee to park in that spot then
you park there.
Um, so there's ways to do that also. Um,
it would go away from free parking and
to a paid parking system, but there's all kinds of ways that we could
generate funds for the town. Um, whether
people would like it or not is going to
be the question. And that's what we
talked about change earlier. Um, you
know, because I say the police
department, police officers don't like
change, but they don't like the way
things are. People downtown don't like
the way things are with parking, but
they're not going to like change either.
So, it's it's all about how we handle it
and how we get it out there to the
people and get their opinions on it.
Some people want parking to be paid
because they want the spots to open in
front of their business so they can have
the customers there and then others
don't because they don't, you know, they
want to be able to park free and they
think it'll work better for their
customers.
>> I I would say the paid parking is thing
something of the future to look at.
>> Yes. I think we definitely need to look
Yeah. whatever way we can to for that u
downtown behind the county administrator
building anywhere that people are
parking and so forth. That's probably
see it should some way to go like
>> and and then have some free parking like
down in different areas in town where
people would have to walk.
>> Um
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, in process of doing that
too, we're going to have to correct some
of the signage downtown. A lot of the
signage is
>> well paid would be you know what I mean.
But right now there's six signs in town.
There's six parking spaces and that has
a sign that says 2 hours and 30 minutes
in the same parking space on the same
pole.
>> So is it two hours or is it 30 minutes?
You have a loading zone and you have one
says two hours apart and same fault too.
Whatever. So,
>> but it's like you said when you put if
you are
>> if you if you have paid parking then
take care of
>> but you know it's like when the cop came
around on Monday issuing parking tickets
and well when he the office
I can't think of his name now when he
come around anyway officer came around
passed out papers in the town but
warning everybody that it was going to
start and then the following week
another officer come and started passing
out tickets. He wrote a lot of tickets
that day because I know he got six t he
wrote six tickets just on our one block
at in his first venture through our
street. And then
on Tuesday, it was really nice cuz
everybody's like, "What happened?
Where's so nice we can pull up here and
park?" because there was only two cars
on the street, but that was because
everybody had got warn and everybody had
got tickets. So, they didn't even have
to park the car on the street.
>> So, it made a huge difference. But then,
you know, as it slowed down and the cops
got dizzy and they didn't have time to
set and walk the streets, then they
slowly came back again. And I mean, I've
got pictures on the phone where there's
a car parked with her whole rear her
rear tires actually on the corner of
Depot Street with her whole rear end
sticking out.
There's I've taken pictures of cars and
it's been sitting there from 10:00 in
the morning to 3:00 in the evening when
I leave.
They don't have a ticket.
And
>> so I guess I'm I'm thinking
that's probably twofold. If we did go
with paid parking, you're still going to
need someone to monitor it and get
tickets.
>> So, so we're going to need Bart, I would
say, you know, we've talked about this
the pay parking and and a way to do it,
but we still would need
a traffic person, somebody. Yeah,
>> it's still challenge for the police
officers right now without paid parking
>> because there's there's rules that have
come out about the way you mark cars and
>> do that
>> to where it makes it more difficult for
a police officer. You used to be able to
when Daryl and I did it, you could mark
the tire
>> with a piece of chalk. You can mark the
tread. You can't do that anymore. It's
not allowed.
>> So, that's so that's where there's a
challenge and that's why the paid
parking will be a an option of
where it would be easier to track.
>> But on that standpoint too, most people
has a smartphone, but you still have
some older people that don't have
smartphones. How would they pay?
>> There's an eight there's normally a
phone number you can call.
>> Okay.
>> In most of the cities that I've been to,
it has a QR code or a phone number you
can call.
>> So, would we want staff to get us some
numbers on what it would cost to go back
to paid parking? the type of metering
and additional body to do that.
>> We got one tickets on that.
>> Well, I thought we thought we had a
quote me if I'm wrong. I thought we had
a parking guy position that we actually
froze. Did we freeze that?
>> You eliminated elim I couldn't remember,
but I was trying to
>> I'm sorry. Not you personally, council a
previous council. I could remember I
could wrong with lemonade.
>> Will the police bring that position back
and he would make us enough money to
probably pay for
>> well
>> doing everything else cuz he wrote a lot
of Do you know how many tickets he wrote
that ATM4?
>> Yeah. I mean it was a lot.
>> Yeah. Keep in mind that's going to cost
money. So everything that we do on the
side here and go back to show me the
money. But I I'm I'm interested too in
though what would it cost metering wise
or what's out there to get paid parking?
>> I know the the the old meters where you
put a
five or 10 central accord in are gone.
That's that's my touch of
>> No, they're working. They're all gone.
But but what's out there now is I guess
what I'd like to see and what we can
look into it. I guess not to complicate
things and you can tell me they shut up,
but part of the parking issue is well
the business owners are parking in front
of their building.
>> Yeah.
>> Where are they supposed to park?
>> Do we also need to create a special
place and category for business? Not
putting you on the spot, but
>> I pay $65 a month for
>> Okay. Well, that's might be okay.
>> Well, would we then Okay, that raises
another question.
The parking areas I mentioned
>> the parking lots we own
then could wing van lease out
>> they space per per week per month
>> probably
>> I'm looking at Mike to tell me
>> Oh yeah I mean
>> policy and have folks collect it
>> yeah have preserve parking for
individuals
and of course
>> or you could just do it by having the
company is managing your your paid
parking thing.
>> Talk about my photo code people in town,
but a lot of them have parking spaces,
>> but they don't have back doors and they
don't want to have to walk all the way
around the block to get there, you know?
>> Yeah.
>> Which we rent spots uh spots from what's
his face?
>> Brian.
But like across the street, the
holiday shop, we have two parking
spaces. Um,
them two building the side of us has two
parking spaces. Garrett has two parking
spaces.
>> Clam diggers, they have parking spaces.
A lot all the way down through there,
that street they all if you go back in
that parking lot, everybody has assigned
parking spaces.
>> Mhm.
>> Hen, he has parking spaces behind his
building, but you got to walk around the
block. the um Fredericks, all of them,
they all have parking spaces back there
that that goes to those buildings. They
just choose not to park back there
because you got to walk around the
block.
>> Yeah, that that's the thing. And that
but we could lease parking spots to
individuals.
>> I mean I mean we could
>> Oh, you just pull up and
>> we probably go and do that anyway with
our parking lots and and generate some
revenue.
Yeah, that's right.
>> Where Green Drug Store used to be is a
parking spot where you could do that for
a business owner
>> spot center.
>> I've seen Well, not exactly this, but
what we've done before is like the
hangers. You basically sell those each
year and then they like can turn back in
or vice versa.
>> And I'm sorry again not we've also
talked about resident people living
above the shops and developing. I've got
a code ready teed up ready to go for a
separate permit for those folks outside
of business hours.
>> So,
>> yeah, I mean, we can we can absolutely
get you a report.
>> Okay, that that'd be good because I know
years back in the 90s when I had to work
uh when I was brought downtown, I had to
rent a spot several blocks up, I paid
$25 a month then in a parking garage.
So, and that that was what 30 more years
back.
So it's it's another way to make money.
» Yeah. Give us some numbers.
>> We got to look at that.
>> And not everybody pays for it. Just
those people that are using the
services.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.
>> And in the long run, after about a year
or two, we'll probably get our
investment back at it once we start
doing that. So,
>> yeah, that's right.
» All right. Where are we? 30 134
>> one comment. The public works fees are
paying with this budget cycle.
>> Yeah, we created a right ofway permit,
but we didn't create a fee with it. And
as Tom's been administering it, people
been asking, okay, what do I owe you?
And didn't have anything to point to.
So,
there's a start.
» And what does the rightway fee cover?
pretty much it's things like driveway
cuts, um work in the rightway by utility
companies.
» It's and it's it performs several
issues. One of which is accountability
for safety so we can account for the
people who are in our right away manage
that liability.
It's not just we're not just doing it
because we can. It's got a practical
function to it.
Yeah, we we the the town, you recall,
had some problems with
particularly with utilities that were
busting up the rightway and then either
not fixing it at all or doing a lousy
job. And um Bart and then Merrick Black
asked, "Is there something we can do
about this?" And I read through the code
very carefully and I said, "There are
these two sections of code that says
that we can require permits for this."
And
um Bart said, "Well, I don't remember
anybody ever having done that. So why
don't we come up with a policy?" And so
after that bounced around for a little
while, Tom and Bart and I put together a
policy loosely based upon Lynchberg's
and Ron Oak's policy, but sort of looser
and more user friendly for a place
that's, you know, a tenth of the size of
Ron Oak and Lynchber.
um in order to cover that as well as
curb cuts and kind of related stuff
where people are messing up the right
way, you're going to have to go out and
do an inspection and you might have to
yell at them to get them to fix things
the right way. So, and there we hadn't
put a fee in place.
>> Okay.
» All right. What questions do you all
have?
135 136
» through 138.
» Go ahead.
>> So,
>> what were
>> Well, I guess since I mean and don't take this wrong. I guess since
we're in the the studies, can we Anna,
would you be able to look at a long
range forecast five years or whatever
between revenue staying static and like
you said you expenses you've kind of I
think a 2% inflationary rate and see
what it looks like for us in those years
as far as the deficit we're running.
>> Absolutely. Yes, we we would I'll
definitely have that ready for the
adopted budget, but um I can tell you
that the one that we did last year
showed that we were okay until we lost
750,000 and at that point that's when
everything flipped.
» But it would you would be able to tell
us kind of what that deficit might look
like. So we could say if we made up
$130,000
in revenue, we could do this or
whatever. But
I I would speculate that next year will
be
that that 750. You'll get a better idea
next year of what the budget's going to
look like because that's going to go
away. So that will determine what
changes, if any, you'll have to
>> make as far as taxes increases.
>> You just want to get when that happens.
>> I'm I'm going to s be sitting right back
here listening to you guys. brother.
That's
>> Hey, might say, "Hey, don't do that."
That's I mean, again, I think it's to me
it's kind of like a social security
thing that you know, Congress would have
been able to fix it 30 years ago. It
would have been small incremental and
when they finally fix, it's going to be
a huge thing.
>> But, but let me let me say this to all
of you. I I I do compliment you all. I
think you're on the right track. you're
thinking ahead and what I call the
vision is what you just said Dave you're
looking three four five years down the
road is to how good or how bad things
could be and but you don't wait till
then you get proactive and do something
about it now to address it and that's
what we've got to do you can't wait till
it happens and then say oh the bridge is
falling down you've got to fix the
bridge and get it ready to go through
that that area. So, so no, you're
exactly right. If we had any idea of
five years from now what it would
definitely look like, we know what to
do. But yes, if Ann or staff could get
us a rough crystal ball idea and it'll
give us more direction,
>> right,
>> as to what what we need to do moving
forward. You're and and I I'd encourage
you guys to think that way. continue to
look ahead and ask those type questions
because I mean there's so much
volatility here electric uh all that
stuff we just you don't know and you
can't say well we don't need this or
don't need that because like electric
public works police they're out there in
all types of weather. So you got to
understand some things they've got to
have and and what what type of service
do we want to give the customer,
>> right?
>> And that's what it's about.
>> Customer service.
>> So
>> and I just Yeah. Yeah. And I'll shut I
won't shut up. One thing
Well, I don't want you to.
>> I know. It's just that also, like you
say, being proactive and not having to,
you know, kneejerk it is it gives now
that Woody's going to be coming online,
it gives him a chance to communicate the
reasoning behind what we're doing.
>> Yes.
>> And it, you know, so people can't say we
didn't,
>> right?
>> You know, give them inform them or or
those kind of things. So,
>> yeah, good deal.
>> All right,
Dave. Any more questions?
No sir, Mr. Mayor.
>> Any more questions?
>> Mr.
Mayor.
>> Well,
>> no.
Councilman Haley,
>> you good?
>> I'm good.
>> You sure?
>> I'm sure.
>> All right. Unless you want to go back to
page seven,
>> start all over again. He's getting his
clues. Don't worry.
>> I've been stuck on page 132 for two
hours. Councilman Fman, what do you
have? I don't know. Council Defilito,
you're good. You You're packed up, ready
to go.
>> I got to be at Aban Hill in 20 minutes.
>> I do have one request. When the budget
process is complete, if everyone could
turn the binder back in, I would like to
reuse it next year and save on cost.
» Hands it on down. Hey, I figured
>> I've got a whole box of container of the
old ones. You want those?
>> Yeah, absolutely.
>> I'll bring them in. I'll give them
good.
>> Is Is Bill's over yet? Yeah. Bills