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[music]

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We call this uh meeting of the loin rock

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board of adjustment to order. I need

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these springs. I'm the chair. This is

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Mr. Jerry Starns, Mr. Steven Schiller.

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To my left is Miss Sarah Murphy, and Mr.

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Brandon Walker.

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Um,

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I thought we were going to elect

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officers tonight, but we are not. The

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foreign code says we're to elect our

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officers once a year. The only officers

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we have is the chair and the vice chair.

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And Mr.

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Rothrock

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um educated me that

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um new members are in a chair and and a

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chair and vice versa person selected

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once new members are installed in March

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and the current chair serves through

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that meeting in February if there is

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one. So we'll wait till the new board

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members come on if any [snorts] and

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we'll uh we'll we'll do it in March.

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Does that sound right Mr. Rothrock?

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>> Sounds right. Yes sir.

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And

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speaking of time, one of our local rules

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is that if this is still going on at

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8:30, we will stop and decide if we can

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be through by 9:30. And if we're not

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confident we're going to be through at

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9:30, we'll pick a continuence date at

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8:30 and we'll leave then. The the goal

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is to never be here past 9:30.

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So keep your eye on the clock. If it

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hits 8:30 and I don't see anything,

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somebody pipe up and say, "Let's let's

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talk about the time." First thing we

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need to do is approve some minutes

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from our

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October 23rd, 2025

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meeting. Um,

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have all members of the board received a

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copy [clears throat] of those minutes?

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>> Does anyone see any errors or omissions

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in them? I did not. Anyone shaking their

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hand? No. Um, do I hear a motion to

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accept the uh minutes from the October

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23rd, 2025 meeting?

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>> We accept.

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>> Mrs. Starns makes that motion. I second

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it. All in favor of approving the

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October 23rd, 2025 minutes as written,

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say I. I. And they are accepted and

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we'll move on.

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» [clears throat]

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» I had printed

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uh

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the North Carolina Court of Appeals

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case, Chad Frasier versus Town of

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Blowing Rock. I had a copy of the case

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printed for every board member and some

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um some notes I wanted to go over. Did

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anybody get a copy of that? Yeah. Um,

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and this is strictly for the the board's

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edification. Some members of the public,

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just be patient with us. This is the

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only time we get together.

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[clears throat]

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In the Frasier versus Town of Blowing

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Rock case before the North Carolina

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Court of Appeals, the court went over

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the history of the town's attempts to

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regulate temporary rentals,

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uh, which started in 1984.

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You see that history described in the

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factual and procedural background

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section of the case of the Fraser case.

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Later in the case, [clears throat] in

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the analysis section, starting on page

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seven,

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the court made various conclusions and

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statements of law including on page

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eight, the free use of property is

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favored in our state. [clears throat]

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Next, zoning ordinances are

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interrogation of the right of private

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property and where exemptions appear in

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favor of the property owner, they must

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be liberally construed in favor of such

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owner. That was on page eight of the

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case.

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Because zoning regulations are in

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derrogation of common law rights, they

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cannot be construed to include or

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exclude by implication that which is not

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clearly their expressed terms.

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The next one says, "When there is

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ambiguity ambiguity in a zoning

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regulation, there's a special rule of

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construction requiring the ambiguous

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language to be construed in favor of the

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free use of property.

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Wellfounded doubts as to the meaning of

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obscure provisions of a zoning ordinance

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should be resolved in favor of the free

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use of property. Our juristp prudence is

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clear that in the event of doubts or

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ambiguity, zoning regulations are to be

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construed in favor of the free use of

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property.

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The U

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Court of Appeals agreed with the

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Superior Court judge who heard the case

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when it was appealed over to the

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Superior Court in Boone when he said

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ambiguity can leave regulation in a

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state of uncertainty which in turn left

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the rights of land owners to the

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unguided discretion of the board of

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adjustment. That hurt

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the town properly. The town started

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properly regulating short-term rentals

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of less than 28 days for the first time

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on August 13th, 2019.

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The town's ordinances existing prior to,

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and this is me talking, this is no

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longer the court of appeals. The town's

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ordinances existing prior to August 13,

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20, 2019 did not properly regulate I'm

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sorry, this is the court of appeals did

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not properly regulate short-term rentals

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of less than 28 days.

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Um, I noted there's a typographical

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error on page 11 of the case regarding

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the date of enactment of that new

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effective short-term rental ordinance.

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the date August 19th, 2019. In the first

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sentence of that last paragraph,

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>> great date is August 13, 2019.

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The Court of Appeals then said

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short-term rails were not regulated by

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the town until [clears throat] the 2019

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amendment, August 13th.

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Uh they noted the burden of proving the

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existence of an operation in violation

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of local town ordinance, zoning

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ordinance is on the town.

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Ordinarily, once the town meets its

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burden to establish the existence of a

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current zoning violation, the burden

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approved shifts to the land owner to

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establish the existence of a legal

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non-conforming use or other affirmative

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offense defense. The defendant of course

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has the burden of establishing all

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affirmative defenses whether they relate

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to the whole case or only to certain

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issues in the case. As to such defenses,

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he has the laboring ore. The city had

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the burden of proving the existence of

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the operation of an operation in

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violation of its zoning ordinance.

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Um the case tonight is not about a

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violation.

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Uh it's about trying to establish

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um short-term rentals. It's not a

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violation. We're not hearing a

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violation. The court of appeals noticed

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that section 16-2.2 of the blowing rock

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land use ordinances defines a

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non-conforming use as a non-conforming

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situation that occurs when the property

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is used for a purpose or in a manner

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made unlawful by the use regulations

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applicable to the district the zoning

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district in which the property is

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located.

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Referring to sections 16-8.1

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and 16-8.6 six of the land use

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ordinances. The court continued,

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"Non-conforming situations that were

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otherwise lawful on the effective date

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of this chapter may be continued

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[clears throat]

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provided the grandfather non-conforming

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use is not discontinued for a

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consecutive period of 180 days or

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discontinued for any period of time

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without a present in intention to

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reinstate the non-conforming use." That

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was on page 16 of the Frasier case.

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The court concluded that the effective

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date of the chapter was 13 August 2019.

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And since the time when Fraser bought

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the property on 29 June 2016, there had

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been no 180day period. He did not rent a

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unit for less than 28 days.

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The violation notice that Fraser

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received from the town was dated 13th

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September 2019. The court concluded that

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Frraasier had made out a primmaacy case

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of non-conforming use under the town's

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ordinances. The the court further

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concluded that Frraasier succeeded in

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his claim of grandfather non-conforming

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use when the court said the board of

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adjustments denial of Frasier's claim of

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grandfather non-conforming use was

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incorrect.

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So to kind of summarize that case,

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Fraser vises the property in question on

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29 June 2016. Since that time, there had

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been no period of 180 days when Frasier

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had not rented the property for less

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than 28 days. He was actively renting

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it. Almost three years goes by when the

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when Blowing Rock enacts short-term

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rental restrictions on 13 August 2019.

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Up until that day, Blowing Rock has not

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had an effective short-term rental

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regulation ordinance to Fraser's use,

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could be said

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to be conforming or legal conforming.

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So, there was no law about short-term

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rentals until August 13th,

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2019.

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Um,

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so he was entitled to do it. There was

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no law against it. On that day, 13

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August 2019, his use became legal

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nonconforming because he's

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grandfathered. And since his purchase of

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the property in 2016, there's been the

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period of 180 days when he didn't do a

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rental of less than 28 days.

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Um,

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private property rights obviously are

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very very important in the United States

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and in the state of North Carolina. and

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the courts uh jealously defend those

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private property rights.

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Um,

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so basically,

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um, I think what we've learned from this

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is,

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um, the or the ordinance in question has

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to be clear, has to be understandable,

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can't be ambiguous,

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and if it is ambiguous or hard to

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understand, um, we can't guess at it.

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Um,

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unfortunately ordinances aren't always

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as clear and u unambiguous as we would

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like, but we got to take the the law as

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it comes to us and in the close calls

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the land owner wins.

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Anybody got any questions?

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All right, let's move past that.

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and uh

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turn to the appeal we have scheduled for

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tonight.

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and

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find my checklist.

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» All right, Stephen. What'd you do?

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What are you looking for?

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>> My checklist.

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Let me see if I got

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It was here a minute ago.

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All right. This is

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[clears throat]

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here's case number 2025-01.

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Um

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the applicant or the appellant

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is Rockpine Reynolds LLC

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and

278
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:31,670
Put that over there.

279
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,079
The u the minutes

280
00:15:36,079 --> 00:15:41,279
will be kept by Miss um Wanu over here.

281
00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:43,120
And

282
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,120
I noticed that the person that signed

283
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:46,880
the application

284
00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,399
or signed the appeal notice is Mr. Chad

285
00:15:50,399 --> 00:15:52,720
Hollister. Is Mr. Hollister here?

286
00:15:52,720 --> 00:16:09,749
>> Yes.

287
00:16:09,759 --> 00:16:11,440
And it looks like you filed and signed

288
00:16:11,440 --> 00:16:15,120
the appeal on November 20th, 2025, Mr.

289
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,519
Hollister.

290
00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:19,600
Uh the appeal

291
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,279
>> the date that you sign the uh appeal

292
00:16:23,279 --> 00:16:25,279
notice or the appeal.

293
00:16:25,279 --> 00:16:27,519
>> That's what it says in yes

294
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:28,639
real quick.

295
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,160
>> Okay.

296
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:31,440
>> That sounds about right though.

297
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,600
>> Okay. All right. Um the applicant is

298
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,120
Rockpine Reynolds LLC

299
00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,360
and the authorized representative is

300
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,920
Ched Hollister. Is that correct?

301
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:44,480
>> Yes.

302
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:45,759
>> Okay. [snorts]

303
00:16:45,759 --> 00:16:47,279
Um,

304
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:50,720
did you receive a copy of the

305
00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,320
uh staff report prior to tonight?

306
00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:54,880
>> Yes.

307
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,720
>> Okay. Did all the board members get a

308
00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,120
copy of the staff report before tonight?

309
00:16:59,120 --> 00:16:59,519
>> Yes.

310
00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:01,360
>> Okay. All right. [clears throat]

311
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,510
Um,

312
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,120
I went through it when I got it. The

313
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:09,760
purpose of the staff report is to kind

314
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,520
of get us up to speed on what this is

315
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,039
about so that we can kind of get

316
00:17:13,039 --> 00:17:16,319
prepared, the board members get prepared

317
00:17:16,319 --> 00:17:18,559
and know what the issues are and

318
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:21,199
research those and know what ordinances

319
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:24,000
and law is involved.

320
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,270
Um,

321
00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:28,960
I went through it and I got a little bit

322
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,440
confused because at one point in here

323
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:32,799
you said you were the owner of the

324
00:17:32,799 --> 00:17:36,080
property or and then another point in

325
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,640
here Mr. I think it was James Hollister

326
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,520
said he owned the property. Who owns the

327
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,960
property?

328
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:44,640
>> Rock Pine Reynolds LLC owns the

329
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,520
property.

330
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,919
>> Okay. Who runs Who owns Rock Pine

331
00:17:47,919 --> 00:17:49,440
Reynolds LLC?

332
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:50,960
>> My father James.

333
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,440
>> Okay. So there might be a typo or

334
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,039
something.

335
00:17:55,039 --> 00:17:56,720
I've managed the property.

336
00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:05,337
>> Okay.

337
00:18:05,347 --> 00:18:10,789
[snorts]

338
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:13,039
» Um, are you a licensed attorney at law,

339
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:28,917
Mr. Hollister? No.

340
00:18:28,927 --> 00:18:32,390
» [snorts]

341
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,160
» Um, [clears throat]

342
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,720
Mr. Hollister. Well, let me let me stop.

343
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:39,600
Is there anyone here

344
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,080
uh that feels like they should be a

345
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,799
party to this case?

346
00:18:44,799 --> 00:18:46,240
Anyone here that feels like they should

347
00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:47,120
be a party?

348
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:48,480
>> Uh, yes. Miss Garrett.

349
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,240
>> My name is Chelsea Garrett. I'm here

350
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:51,679
with my law partner, Brian Martin from

351
00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:54,160
Gil Mosley Law Firm, and we do represent

352
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:55,360
several owners who would like to

353
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,080
intervene in this hearing um if it goes

354
00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,280
forward tonight.

355
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,960
>> Well, that's it's going to it's going to

356
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,039
go forward. Let's

357
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:06,240
um let's take them one by one and uh

358
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,679
let's see if they meet the requirements

359
00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:12,870
for standing.

360
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:17,190
So

361
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,240
um I actually do have one preliminary

362
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,320
matter um I would like to ask um and and

363
00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,400
that is I I could not find a copy of any

364
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,280
rules of procedure or anything that the

365
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,280
board had adopted online. I might have

366
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:34,559
overlooked them. Um but I was under the

367
00:19:34,559 --> 00:19:37,200
impression that there were rules.

368
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,240
>> Just a few. [laughter]

369
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,000
>> Okay. And that one of them pertained to

370
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,679
affidavit. Yes.

371
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:42,160
>> Okay.

372
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:42,640
>> Yes.

373
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,120
>> Okay.

374
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:44,480
>> Are you familiar with the wording of

375
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:44,960
that?

376
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,039
>> I'm just I vaguely recall that being an

377
00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:50,559
issue in a prior hearing years ago that was a fairly new rule and so I just

378
00:19:50,559 --> 00:19:53,039
wanted to hear about it.

379
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:55,840
>> Right. Um I think I' I've got a copy of

380
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:57,360
it right here.

381
00:19:57,360 --> 00:19:59,679
>> It's number three.

382
00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:02,799
>> And are they online, Mr. Petra?

383
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:04,400
>> We're working on that. I don't know if

384
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:04,720
that

385
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:05,760
>> that's fine. I don't mind that they

386
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:07,120
aren't. I just hope I didn't overlook

387
00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:09,200
them that well. So,

388
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,960
>> no, they're available to the public, but

389
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,039
I I think we're belated in get getting

390
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:14,799
them online.

391
00:20:14,799 --> 00:20:16,400
>> I didn't mean to ask for report before

392
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:25,350
tonight, so that's my fault.

393
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,360
» Sworn affidavits. This is a rule we

394
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:30,720
adopted back

395
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,440
in 23 20 I'm sorry, [clears throat]

396
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,760
2021.

397
00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:37,840
Sworn affidavit. Introduction of sworn

398
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,760
written affidavit into the record of a

399
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:41,520
board hearing where the afanten of the

400
00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:43,200
statement is unavailable for

401
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,360
cross-examination under oath or

402
00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:47,360
affirmation and where no hearsay

403
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,520
exception for admissibility under the

404
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,840
North Carolina rules of evidence exists

405
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,880
is discouraged as incompetent evidence.

406
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,120
Any introduction into the record of such

407
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,760
hearay evidence shall be at the sole

408
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,919
discretion of the board. That's the

409
00:21:01,919 --> 00:21:04,799
rule.

410
00:21:04,799 --> 00:21:07,990
Um,

411
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,760
with that, I guess before I really say

412
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:11,120
anything else about that, we should go

413
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:13,520
ahead and um I'll bring up one witness

414
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,760
at a time for intervention and see if

415
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,679
the board approves. Um,

416
00:21:17,679 --> 00:21:20,159
>> Miss Garrett, do you want to review the

417
00:21:20,159 --> 00:21:22,320
uh rules of procedure for the board

418
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,679
prior to doing this motion or anything

419
00:21:25,679 --> 00:21:26,320
further?

420
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,159
>> Um, it might be good for me to look at

421
00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:29,919
them just to make sure and and also for

422
00:21:29,919 --> 00:21:32,240
Mr. Hollister to see them. Um

423
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,200
>> he he does already have a copy. He

424
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,480
should have already received a copy

425
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:37,280
earlier.

426
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:38,799
>> Um I have it pulled up here. I don't

427
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,520
have a printed copy so much, but you

428
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,039
want to look at it real quick. I'm sure

429
00:21:43,039 --> 00:21:44,480
>> Sure. Or if you want to email it. I

430
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:44,960
think I have

431
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:46,320
>> Yeah, that's fine. I'll just

432
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,679
>> That' be okay. Thank you.

433
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:48,000
>> Sure.

434
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:49,280
>> Well, if it's going to speed things up,

435
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:50,640
I'll hand you written copies. How about

436
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:50,960
that?

437
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,679
>> That's even better.

438
00:21:51,679 --> 00:22:05,350
>> That's fine.

439
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:33,190
Just I need them back.

440
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:49,590
This is called cleaning up the cockpit.

441
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:52,630
Sure.

442
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,799
Okay. So, with that said, um, now that

443
00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:56,240
I'm at the microphone, I'll just repeat.

444
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,000
My name is Chelsea Garrett. I'm here

445
00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,760
with Brian Martin from Deal Mosley Law

446
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,919
Firm. We represent several property

447
00:23:01,919 --> 00:23:03,520
owners that receive notice that are

448
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,919
within 150 ft of the property. Um,

449
00:23:05,919 --> 00:23:07,440
that's the subject of the hearing

450
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,559
tonight. Um, and they we believe qualify

451
00:23:10,559 --> 00:23:12,240
as having special damages and should be

452
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,880
allowed to intervene. the first owner.

453
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,520
Um, I'll just call up um Sarah.

454
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,061
>> If you want to come up here real quick.

455
00:23:21,061 --> 00:23:27,590
[clears throat]

456
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,000
» Yeah, we're going to need to get her

457
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,120
sworn in.

458
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:32,320
>> You want to go ahead and get all your

459
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:33,039
folks sworn in?

460
00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:34,880
>> Yeah, we could. Why don't we have

461
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,480
>> just Sarah, Chris,

462
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,760
and I think that was and Ross

463
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:42,960
>> or

464
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,960
just want to be

465
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,440
chairman.

466
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:46,480
>> I think the three of you guys

467
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,159
>> do you want to before we get too far

468
00:23:48,159 --> 00:23:50,159
into this questions about potential

469
00:23:50,159 --> 00:23:52,720
conflicts knowledge?

470
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,960
>> That's that's a good idea. Let's let's

471
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,159
do that. Um let me interrupt you, Miss

472
00:23:58,159 --> 00:23:59,520
Garrett. Well, they're all ready to be

473
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:04,549
sworn. Let's go ahead and do that.

474
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:12,710
» I think you got all hand

475
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:14,000
Put your left hand on the bottom and

476
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,360
raise your right.

477
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,240
>> Oh, raise your right.

478
00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,840
>> Raise your right.

479
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:18,559
>> There you go.

480
00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:20,480
>> Left and raise your right. There we go.

481
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,559
Do you solve to the others? You shall

482
00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:25,039
give this body this matter shall be the

483
00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:26,559
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but

484
00:24:26,559 --> 00:24:32,446
truth.

485
00:24:32,456 --> 00:24:33,039
[snorts]

486
00:24:33,039 --> 00:24:36,240
>> Um, so just to preface my questions, um,

487
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,679
>> let me let me do a couple things. Sure, Sure. Um, Mr. [clears throat]

488
00:24:39,679 --> 00:24:41,200
Walker's reminding me of it. Just to

489
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,919
make sure we get these in before we go

490
00:24:43,919 --> 00:24:47,919
any further. Um,

491
00:24:47,919 --> 00:24:50,240
all the board members have received the

492
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,000
um staff report. Did any of the board

493
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,679
members drive by the property in

494
00:24:55,679 --> 00:24:58,240
question? We're able to do that, but

495
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,269
let's ask who did. I did. I did.

496
00:25:01,277 --> 00:25:01,279
[clears throat]

497
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:04,880
>> M. Okay. Mrs. Starns did. Mr. Schiller

498
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:05,840
did not.

499
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,720
>> I did.

500
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,400
>> M. Murphy did. Mr. Walker.

501
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,480
>> I did. I'd also like for everybody's

502
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,039
benefit. I I'm one of the neighbors who

503
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:14,640
received notice.

504
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,440
>> Okay.

505
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,000
>> I'm within that 150 ft.

506
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,480
>> Okay. All right. Having received that

507
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,857
notice, do you have any bias or um

508
00:25:24,857 --> 00:25:25,840
[clears throat]

509
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,679
preconceived notions going into this?

510
00:25:27,679 --> 00:25:28,559
>> No, I don't.

511
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,870
>> Okay. Um

512
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,279
let's talk about conflicts and bias. A

513
00:25:35,279 --> 00:25:37,200
board member on this case must not

514
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,880
participate or vote in any manner that

515
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,039
would violate an affected person's

516
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:42,880
constitutional right to an impartial

517
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,600
decision maker. Imperible impermissible

518
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,400
violations of due process include not

519
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,720
disclosing any exparte communications a

520
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,039
member had prior to the hearing. Anybody

521
00:25:53,039 --> 00:25:55,520
have any prior to the hearing

522
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,440
conversations about [clears throat] this

523
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,679
case with anyone?

524
00:25:59,679 --> 00:26:03,279
>> Okay. Everyone says no. A me a member

525
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:05,039
must not have a fixed opinion prior to

526
00:26:05,039 --> 00:26:06,240
this hearing as to whether the

527
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:07,679
particular variant should or should not

528
00:26:07,679 --> 00:26:10,640
be granted. Uh does anyone have a fixed

529
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:12,320
opinion prior to this hearing as to

530
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,360
whether the I'm sorry this isn't a v a

531
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:17,279
variance whether this appeal should be

532
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:19,919
granted. Anyone have any preconceived

533
00:26:19,919 --> 00:26:23,440
ideas about that? Everyone says no

534
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,520
they don't. [clears throat] Um,

535
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,200
a member must not participate in this

536
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,679
case if the member has any close familia

537
00:26:31,679 --> 00:26:33,520
bu business or other close relationship

538
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,840
with the person involved in this case.

539
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,000
Anybody have any such connections to

540
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,159
this case? I do not.

541
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:43,039
>> I'm seeing no from everyone else. And a

542
00:26:43,039 --> 00:26:44,799
member must not have any financial

543
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:46,640
interest in the outcome of the case. I

544
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:48,159
don't. Anyone have?

545
00:26:48,159 --> 00:26:48,640
>> No.

546
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,909
>> They all say no. So, we'll move on.

547
00:26:53,919 --> 00:26:58,320
The uh court of appeals has said that we

548
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,080
um

549
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,840
should let everybody know what our

550
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,840
procedures are and how we operate. I'm

551
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,919
going to do that right now. This hearing

552
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:08,080
is a quasi judicial hearing. It's

553
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:09,679
conducted according to the rules and

554
00:27:09,679 --> 00:27:11,600
laws pertaining to quasi judicial

555
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,840
hearings. It will have all the essential

556
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,240
elements of a fair trial. Parties will

557
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,840
have the opportunity to give evidence,

558
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,000
cross-examine witnesses, inspect

559
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,840
documents, and testimony shall be under

560
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,159
oath. The board's findings will be based

561
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:27,039
upon substantial material and competent

562
00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:28,653
evidence. [cough] The North Carolina

563
00:27:28,653 --> 00:27:30,000
[clears throat] Court of Appeals has

564
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,000
said that the decision decision of a

565
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,799
board such as this must be based upon

566
00:27:34,799 --> 00:27:37,919
substantial competent and material

567
00:27:37,919 --> 00:27:40,799
evidence and North Carolina General

568
00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:44,320
Statute 160D-46J

569
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,039
says the same thing. Substantial

570
00:27:47,039 --> 00:27:48,480
evidence is defined by the court of

571
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:50,159
appeals as that which a reasonable mind

572
00:27:50,159 --> 00:27:51,919
would regard as sufficiently supporting

573
00:27:51,919 --> 00:27:54,960
a specific result. The court's also said

574
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:57,039
is such relevant evidence as a

575
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:58,960
reasonable mind might accept as adequate

576
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,120
to support a conclusion. Material

577
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:02,720
evidence has been said to be evidence

578
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,559
having some logical connection with the

579
00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,880
consequential facts. Incompetent

580
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:08,559
evidence is generally defined as

581
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:11,600
synonymous with admissible evidence. It

582
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,760
follows the rules.

583
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:15,279
We are supposed to follow the North

584
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:16,880
Carolina rules of evidence. The rules

585
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,039
used in the North Carolina General Court

586
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:20,880
of Justice.

587
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:22,640
The type of evidence question that most

588
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,200
often comes up is hearsay evidence.

589
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,120
Hearsay is a verbal or written statement

590
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:28,480
made prior to the hearing in the

591
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:30,240
declarant is not here or on the

592
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,200
telephone to testify under oath. The

593
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,679
rules say hearsay is not admissible

594
00:28:35,679 --> 00:28:38,640
unless allowed under statute or by the

595
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,120
rules. And the rules have a number of

596
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,840
exceptions that will allow hearsay to be

597
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,240
admitted into evidence. Probably the

598
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,159
most used exception to this rule against

599
00:28:48,159 --> 00:28:50,000
hearsay is the exception for statements

600
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,320
that were made outside the hearing by a

601
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,120
party opponent. The party opponents here

602
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,320
today are the appellant and the town and

603
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,000
there may be an intervenor. We'll see

604
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,320
shortly. They're opponents and what they

605
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,159
or their agents or employees have said

606
00:29:04,159 --> 00:29:06,080
outside the hearing is admissible as a

607
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,320
statement by a party opponent. It's a

608
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:13,990
hearsay exception.

609
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:15,679
We, the board, cannot make critical

610
00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:18,640
findings of fact based on hearsay. And

611
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,799
if we hear what sounds like inadmissible

612
00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:22,720
hearsay being offered into evidence, we

613
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,520
shall stop and discuss that situation

614
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,559
with the parties.

615
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:32,630
Um,

616
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,720
yeah, Mr. Hollister up. Our minute taker

617
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,720
is Miss Allison Wanu over here. She

618
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,559
works for the town. She actually works

619
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:44,960
for Mr. Rothrock. Do you have any

620
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,720
objection to her keeping the minutes of

621
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:47,600
this meeting?

622
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:48,240
>> No.

623
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,120
>> Okay. All right. Mr. Rothrock, do you

624
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:52,720
have any

625
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,559
objection to your assistant keeping the

626
00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:55,600
minutes of this meeting? No.

627
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:57,919
>> Okay. All right. Miss Garrett, thank you

628
00:29:57,919 --> 00:29:59,520
for your patience. If you would

629
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,679
continue.

630
00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:09,600
>> Thank you. So, um, as you guys have may have dealt with before, the um um

631
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,360
because this is quasi judicial, the

632
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,000
North Carolina statute 160D

633
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,240
does not allow anyone other than the

634
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:17,840
applicant and the board to present

635
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,000
evidence unless they intervene. That is

636
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,000
why um we are making an oral motion to

637
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,240
intervene. Uh and in order to intervene,

638
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,480
we have to show we would have standing.

639
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,279
The standing is determined under

640
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:31,919
160D1402.

641
00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:37,520
Um and uh that states that

642
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,760
um following persons have standing. Um

643
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,640
that would include uh of course an owner

644
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,000
in the property which is here. Uh and it

645
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:49,520
includes any other person who will

646
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,200
suffer special damages as a result of

647
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:53,679
the decision being appealed.

648
00:30:53,679 --> 00:30:56,559
um and courts have in North Carolina

649
00:30:56,559 --> 00:30:58,880
have consistently considered some

650
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,039
evidence of um special damages to be the

651
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:05,200
fact that the ordinance already provides

652
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,360
that folks within 150 ft of the subject

653
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,600
property have special interest such that

654
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,679
they've received special um direct

655
00:31:11,679 --> 00:31:13,840
notice. But that is some evidence that

656
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,480
they would um by virtue of the town zone

657
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,000
ordinance um be um separate and viewed

658
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,600
separately from general community

659
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:22,880
members that might want to come in and

660
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,360
just speak to any application. Uh on top

661
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,360
of that though um I would ask each

662
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,696
property owner here to um state

663
00:31:29,696 --> 00:31:30,720
[clears throat] their proximity to

664
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,720
property and what their concerns are.

665
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Um, I believe it's clear under the law,

666
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,840
um, and, um, I think due process rules

667
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,880
would, um, support allowing these

668
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:44,399
particular owners to intervene. So, I'll

669
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:46,559
just let them speak as to their

670
00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:49,200
particular proximity. Um, so, Miss

671
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,799
Frederick,

672
00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:53,679
okay, good. Um, you give the board your

673
00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:54,559
full name.

674
00:31:54,559 --> 00:31:56,480
>> Sarah Freric.

675
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,240
>> Can you spell your last name?

676
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:04,080
>> F as in Frank. R E R I C HS

677
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:09,750
>> C HS Okay.

678
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,679
» Um Okay. And Miss [clears throat] Raric,

679
00:32:11,679 --> 00:32:13,679
uh where do you where is your property

680
00:32:13,679 --> 00:32:14,880
um here in Rock?

681
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,279
>> Um it's 491 Chestnut Drive. So, two

682
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:17,919
doors away.

683
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:18,720
>> Two doors away.

684
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:19,440
>> Okay.

685
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,720
>> And um is it a single family residence?

686
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:23,440
>> Yes, it is.

687
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:23,919
>> Okay.

688
00:32:23,919 --> 00:32:25,760
>> And when did you purchase the property?

689
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:27,519
>> October

690
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:31,600
2023. Okay. And when you purchased the

691
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,320
property, did you inquire as to whether

692
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:37,360
short-term rentals were permitted um at

693
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,039
your property or anywhere near you?

694
00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:39,519
>> I did.

695
00:32:39,519 --> 00:32:40,720
>> Okay. Who did you ask?

696
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,039
>> Um our realtor, Ruth.

697
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:45,039
>> Okay. Uh and what were you told?

698
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:46,480
>> Um we were told that there was an

699
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,840
ordinance that um prohibited short-term

700
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:50,640
rentals.

701
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,000
>> Okay. Um and was that a factor in why

702
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,120
you purchased this property?

703
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,720
>> Absolutely. Would you have purchased the

704
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,480
property if you had been told otherwise?

705
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,039
>> You know, I can't answer that, I guess,

706
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:04,399
because I don't know what I would have

707
00:33:04,399 --> 00:33:07,279
done back then, but I would like to say

708
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:09,679
I wouldn't because I like, you know, I

709
00:33:09,679 --> 00:33:12,240
like my neighbors. I like the spirit of

710
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:17,519
the neighborhood. I like having neighbors. I like knowing

711
00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:18,960
my neighbors. I like knowing who's going

712
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,480
to be there if I get in trouble. But if

713
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,240
I fall down on the ice, I like knowing

714
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,039
who they are. So, um I would say that I

715
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:26,399
wouldn't buy it, but you never, you

716
00:33:26,399 --> 00:33:27,519
know, I can't go back.

717
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:30,000
>> So, what are your concerns related to

718
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,320
having short-term rentals um as a

719
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:33,279
neighbor?

720
00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:36,320
>> Well, um I do

721
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,240
short-term rentals frequently throughout

722
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,679
the years in different places in the

723
00:33:39,679 --> 00:33:41,679
United States, in the country. Um so, I

724
00:33:41,679 --> 00:33:43,919
know what it's like to have a short or

725
00:33:43,919 --> 00:33:46,000
to go to a short-term rental. And I'm

726
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,279
not, you know, I'm not bad to the

727
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:50,640
property yet. I don't fear that. But it

728
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,039
is a different feel. You don't know your

729
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,039
neighbors. You don't know. I can't call

730
00:33:55,039 --> 00:33:56,419
them up. Like, you can look out the

731
00:33:56,419 --> 00:33:57,360
[clears throat] window and see what

732
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,600
Bill's doing. I don't, you know, I don't

733
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,120
know them because it's somebody

734
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,559
different all the time. So, it just

735
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:04,880
gives it a different feel, a different a

736
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:05,840
different feel.

737
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,310
>> Okay. Um,

738
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:13,040
do you have any concerns about impacts

739
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,919
of the um of a short-term rental as

740
00:34:15,919 --> 00:34:19,359
opposed to a permanent resident?

741
00:34:19,359 --> 00:34:22,240
Um, well, I have a concern about it

742
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:25,280
impacting the value of my home. Okay.

743
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,359
>> Because I would not have paid what I

744
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:31,440
paid for that house had I known it that

745
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,560
there could be other short-term rentals.

746
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:34,960
Okay.

747
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,960
>> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. I don't have any

748
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:38,399
further questions. Does the board have

749
00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:40,159
any?

750
00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:41,839
>> Does any board member have any questions

751
00:34:41,839 --> 00:34:44,159
for Miss Frederick? Is that what you

752
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:46,879
said?

753
00:34:46,879 --> 00:34:50,800
>> Thank you. Um, Mr. Chad Hollister may

754
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,119
want to ask her a question. I don't

755
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:56,023
know.

756
00:34:56,023 --> 00:34:56,720
[snorts]

757
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:59,920
>> Please say your name. Mary Lee Howell.

758
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:00,960
And where

759
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,839
>> I'm sorry, real. What was it?

760
00:35:03,839 --> 00:35:09,680
>> Mary Lee. L E I G H Howell. H O W E L L.

761
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:11,280
>> Okay. Thank you.

762
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:14,560
>> And um Miss How, where is uh your

763
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:16,720
property located?

764
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,240
50 feet behind them.

765
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:19,839
>> Okay. What is the address of your

766
00:35:19,839 --> 00:35:20,320
property?

767
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,119
>> We are 135 Pine Village. So, we are the

768
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:25,680
very first townhouse you get to on Pine

769
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:26,400
Village.

770
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,960
>> Okay. Um and um do you have you said 50

771
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:32,880
ft. Do you have a clear view of the

772
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:33,839
subject property?

773
00:35:33,839 --> 00:35:34,640
>> Oh, yeah.

774
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,040
>> Okay. And are there are there any

775
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,200
porches or decks or patios?

776
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:43,119
>> There's one balcony. Um I mean theirs,

777
00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:45,680
right? Yeah. one balcony um that's

778
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,769
directly in front of our floor

779
00:35:47,769 --> 00:35:49,040
[clears throat] and then the entrance to

780
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,880
a basement apartment is also there.

781
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,720
>> Okay.

782
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:55,280
Um and

783
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,119
what um do you [clears throat] have

784
00:35:57,119 --> 00:36:00,000
concerns about the um subject property

785
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,320
being allowed to be used for short-term

786
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:02,880
rentals?

787
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:04,800
>> I've got at least three. Let's start

788
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,400
with light, noise, and property value.

789
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,680
Um the light thing being that when when

790
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,040
they come around the end of the parking

791
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,040
lot, the parking lot also sits directly

792
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,359
in front of us. So if that means

793
00:36:17,359 --> 00:36:18,800
somebody comes up at night, it means

794
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,320
they shine their headlights directly

795
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,720
into our primary bedroom on the first

796
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,520
floor. Um which is not fun,

797
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:27,520
understandable.

798
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,280
Um so we prefer that to be as little as

799
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:32,960
possible.

800
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:36,000
Um the second would be noise. We have a

801
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,040
wonderfully quiet neighborhood on

802
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,240
Chestnut Street. Um, and

803
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:46,240
I own real estate. I've short-term and

804
00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:47,920
long-term rented and I can tell you the

805
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,079
difference in the renters and what

806
00:36:50,079 --> 00:36:51,920
they're like.

807
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:53,040
So, [clears throat] my second would be

808
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,760
the noise thing. My third is property

809
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:57,280
value. I've been investing in property

810
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,720
for more than 20 years. I've had

811
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:01,200
property in Blowing Rock since 2017. We

812
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,960
have two places. And I can tell you that

813
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,200
wealthy people do not like to buy STR

814
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,760
friendly neighborhoods. Period.

815
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:16,950
>> Okay. Any other questions?

816
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:18,000
» Questions?

817
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:18,480
>> No.

818
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,640
>> Any board member have any questions?

819
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,200
>> Mr. Hollister.

820
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,240
>> I miss how if you're within 50 ft, did

821
00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:28,320
you receive the formal notice from the

822
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:28,960
town?

823
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:29,520
>> Can you say?

824
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,200
>> Sorry. Did you receive the formal notice

825
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:32,000
from the town?

826
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:40,710
>> Yes. Yes, we did.

827
00:37:40,720 --> 00:37:41,920
» Please state your name.

828
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:43,200
>> Chris Kemper.

829
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,359
>> And you want to spell that?

830
00:37:45,359 --> 00:37:47,839
>> K E M P E R.

831
00:37:47,839 --> 00:37:49,520
>> I'm sorry.

832
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,160
>> K E M P E R.

833
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,560
>> Thank you.

834
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,760
And um do you have property um that

835
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:00,960
Well, let me ask first. Did you receive

836
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,880
the notice from the town? We did.

837
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,480
>> Okay. And where is your property

838
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:05,440
located? [clears throat]

839
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,400
>> 143 Pine Village. We're right next door

840
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,800
to Merly How and 60 ft from the

841
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:13,440
property?

842
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,280
>> Okay. Um and when you purchase your

843
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:20,640
property, um by chance, did you inquire

844
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,560
about the ability to do any short for

845
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,000
any short-term rental? [clears throat]

846
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:25,119
>> We did. Okay.

847
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:26,720
>> And we were told that they weren't

848
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:27,280
allowed.

849
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,560
>> Okay. Um, and when did you purchase your

850
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:31,599
property?

851
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:33,520
>> March of 2021.

852
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,079
>> Okay. Um, since you purchased your

853
00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:37,280
property, are you aware of any

854
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,640
short-term rentals at the subject

855
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:39,359
property?

856
00:38:39,359 --> 00:38:42,720
>> I am not.

857
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,880
>> And what concerns do you have regarding

858
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,560
whether short-term rentals would be

859
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,079
allowed at the subject property?

860
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:49,680
>> It's the same concerns we've heard from

861
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:51,760
the other two owners. Um, we have those

862
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,520
same concerns. you know, property

863
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,800
values, noise, um, not knowing who's

864
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,359
coming in and out, safety. I do have

865
00:38:59,359 --> 00:39:02,720
three kids, so that's always a concern.

866
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:05,280
Um, not to say that it would be rented

867
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,359
to anybody of of danger, but, you know,

868
00:39:07,359 --> 00:39:10,320
it's still a concern. So,

869
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,160
>> um, do you have concerns at all about

870
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,320
your value? Absolutely. Okay.

871
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,240
>> Yep. Absolutely.

872
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:18,320
>> Okay. [clears throat]

873
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:20,079
>> No further questions for Mr. Ker from

874
00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:22,560
me. Well, you say you have concerns

875
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,079
about your value. Tell us more about

876
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:24,800
that.

877
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:26,240
>> Well, just it's the same thing that the

878
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:28,079
previous owners mentioned is that when

879
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:29,760
you have the short-term rentals, is that

880
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:31,200
you can run the risk of your property's

881
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,359
values going down. And like a lot of the

882
00:39:33,359 --> 00:39:35,680
previous people that spoke, is that we

883
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,400
didn't buy, you know, in Blowing Rock,

884
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,160
especially where we bought so we could

885
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:41,760
see our property values go down because

886
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:46,960
of an ordinance that was misunderstood.

887
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:47,520
Okay.

888
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,920
>> Would you have paid the same thing for

889
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:51,760
your own property had you known

890
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,400
short-term rentals were allowed close

891
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,680
by?

892
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:57,280
>> So, I go back to the same thing that

893
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,520
Sarah said is that I don't know. I don't

894
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,920
know that I would I would my gut tells

895
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,640
me that I wouldn't, but I I can't answer

896
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:11,030
that honestly without

897
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:12,480
» any board member have any more

898
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,000
questions? Mr. Hollister, any questions?

899
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,680
Thank you. Thank you very much.

900
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:20,880
>> Anything else, Miss Gar?

901
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,200
>> No, those would be the um three owners

902
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:24,880
we believe qualify standing to

903
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,200
intervene.

904
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,160
>> Board members, we'll have to

905
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:31,839
discuss this for a minute and then take

906
00:40:31,839 --> 00:40:35,119
a vote. I'm looking at

907
00:40:35,119 --> 00:40:37,440
are literally handbook the quasi

908
00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:39,440
judicial handbook a guide for boards

909
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,720
making development regulation decisions

910
00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:45,200
written by the UNC school of government

911
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,599
the professors there you've heard me say

912
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:50,000
many times they're they're the guys that

913
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,800
teach the legislators in Raleigh about

914
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,040
lane east law they are the people that

915
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,000
helped to write the laws I'm looking at

916
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,079
their book

917
00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:04,319
and they have gone over the laundry list

918
00:41:04,319 --> 00:41:06,319
as Miss Garrett did of ways you can

919
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:09,839
become a party. You have to have

920
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:13,200
standing. And if you're alleging special

921
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:14,960
damages,

922
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,920
uh it's got to be

923
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:25,430
um

924
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,680
it's got to be fairly substantial.

925
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,400
Um

926
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,400
common denominator here with the three

927
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,040
folks that want to come in as parties or

928
00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:38,960
they're afraid of their property values

929
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,079
going down. Um,

930
00:41:42,079 --> 00:41:45,040
and not to be disrespectful, the book

931
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,520
does say vague and they're citing a

932
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,119
case. I'll give the site in a minute.

933
00:41:49,119 --> 00:41:51,280
Vague general allegations of decreased

934
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,240
property value are insufficient. And

935
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,079
then they cite Lloyd versus town of

936
00:41:56,079 --> 00:42:00,079
Chapel Hill found at 127 North Carolina

937
00:42:00,079 --> 00:42:05,119
appeal. uh fields at 347 [snorts]

938
00:42:05,119 --> 00:42:11,200
uh 489 Southeast 2nd page 898 from 1997.

939
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,950
Um

940
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,000
the um

941
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,280
secondary impacts of noise and the light

942
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,560
and not knowing who's over there are

943
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:35,589
obviously concern. Um I'm I'm

944
00:42:35,599 --> 00:42:37,440
worried we might get be getting too far

945
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,839
over our skis if if we allow these

946
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:42,960
people to to come in. What What do I

947
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,240
don't know. What do you think?

948
00:42:44,240 --> 00:42:48,400
>> So [clears throat] was proximity alone u

949
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,359
reason to say they have standing?

950
00:42:51,359 --> 00:42:53,359
No, you got you got you got to allege

951
00:42:53,359 --> 00:42:56,400
some hurt, some some harm proximity

952
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:05,750
alone. Okay. No. Um, [snorts]

953
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,000
» may I respond to one thing?

954
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,000
>> Absolutely. We would love all the help

955
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:10,720
you can give us.

956
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:12,880
>> I I was looking for it. Um, I'm trying

957
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,760
to find it. Um, my recollection is on

958
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,920
the issue um of the property values. Um

959
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,400
that is absolutely right as to um

960
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,319
general speculation regarding values but

961
00:43:26,319 --> 00:43:28,160
there is case law that does state and I

962
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:29,440
don't know how that's phrased in the

963
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:31,119
book Mr. Springs [clears throat]

964
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:32,560
>> um but I I want to say there's a

965
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,319
distinction which is that an individual

966
00:43:34,319 --> 00:43:36,640
property owner is permitted to give an

967
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:38,319
opinion as to the value of their own

968
00:43:38,319 --> 00:43:43,760
property. Um so um there is a case that

969
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,400
says that um there's a limited scope

970
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,240
that individual property owners allowed

971
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:49,839
to say. So even though the property

972
00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:51,440
owner themselves has not performed

973
00:43:51,440 --> 00:43:52,960
evaluation

974
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:54,400
cannot say that there is a specific

975
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,960
demunition value that's going to occur

976
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,880
to say that they may may or may not have

977
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,319
purchased their property may or may not

978
00:44:02,319 --> 00:44:03,760
purchase it again would may or may not

979
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,200
have paid that same amount had they

980
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,119
known that. um I believe to be

981
00:44:09,119 --> 00:44:11,119
sufficient on that on that point. I

982
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:15,119
would also say for what it's worth from

983
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:16,800
a due process standpoint in my

984
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,680
experience based on the case law um

985
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,400
there's

986
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,319
I believe the courts fairly liberally

987
00:44:26,319 --> 00:44:28,480
construe as long as there is number one

988
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,200
the proximity that they are they are

989
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,880
distinguished these owners are

990
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,520
distinguished from someone two miles

991
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,440
away from coming in and just saying they

992
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:39,440
don't like short-term rentals um because

993
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:40,880
they would personally

994
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,760
visibly see the use of the property and

995
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,200
experience the use of the property,

996
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,806
good, bad, or otherwise. Um, so I

997
00:44:48,806 --> 00:44:50,560
[sighs] I would submit and I'm not

998
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:51,760
saying I'm not saying this next

999
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,520
statement because I would ever even

1000
00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:54,880
encourage it or that the clients would

1001
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,960
ever want to do it. I believe based on

1002
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,599
the law that they would have grounds um

1003
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:02,160
for a denovo review of the question of

1004
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:03,839
intervention

1005
00:45:03,839 --> 00:45:06,079
um and that boards generally are on the

1006
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:08,880
side of allowing it, but that's been my

1007
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,640
experience. It doesn't mean you have to.

1008
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:11,440
So

1009
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:14,240
>> Eie, I'm not aware of such a case. Um

1010
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:16,079
but if you

1011
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:17,359
>> I don't know if you have access to it,

1012
00:45:17,359 --> 00:45:18,000
but

1013
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,160
>> you're you represent the town, right?

1014
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:20,480
>> Correct.

1015
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:21,760
>> Let's make sure we have the players,

1016
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:22,079
right?

1017
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:22,640
>> Correct.

1018
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,839
>> And um Sure. weigh into it.

1019
00:45:25,839 --> 00:45:28,720
>> Okay. Um, well, if you were to uh look

1020
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:33,510
to general statute 160D-1402,

1021
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:34,079
» right,

1022
00:45:34,079 --> 00:45:36,160
>> J3

1023
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,760
A.

1024
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,960
It says that the term competent evidence

1025
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,200
as used in this subsection shall,

1026
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,119
regardless of the lack of a timely

1027
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:48,800
objection, uh, not be deemed to include

1028
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,839
the opinion testimony of lay witnesses

1029
00:45:51,839 --> 00:45:55,680
as to any of the following. A is the use

1030
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,440
of property in a particular way

1031
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,119
affecting the value of other property

1032
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,119
and it doesn't specify anything beyond

1033
00:46:03,119 --> 00:46:04,079
other property.

1034
00:46:04,079 --> 00:46:05,460
>> Give give me give me the number of

1035
00:46:05,460 --> 00:46:06,560
[clears throat] the statute again. What

1036
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:10,160
was it? 1402. 1402

1037
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:11,839
J3

1038
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:32,287
A.

1039
00:46:32,297 --> 00:46:34,319
[clears throat]

1040
00:46:34,319 --> 00:46:38,720
Yeah, that statute says the um

1041
00:46:38,720 --> 00:46:40,960
competent evidence is not to be deemed

1042
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,119
to include the opinion testimony of lay

1043
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:47,119
witnesses as to any of the following. Uh

1044
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:48,800
the use of property in a particular way

1045
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,839
affects the value of other property.

1046
00:46:51,839 --> 00:46:58,230
Um

1047
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,117
anything from any other board member?

1048
00:47:01,117 --> 00:47:02,960
[clears throat]

1049
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,800
Does Chelsea have the case law?

1050
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:10,470
>> I'm looking for it right now. Um

1051
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,319
trying to get my hot spot to work.

1052
00:47:12,319 --> 00:47:17,599
>> This is the new 160D, Miss Garrett.

1053
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:19,520
I have the statute pulled up, but what

1054
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:20,880
I'm saying is the case law, my

1055
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:22,160
understanding of the case law is that

1056
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,560
statute says lay person's opinion of

1057
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,560
value and the case provides an exception

1058
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:28,560
that if you're the owner of the property

1059
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:30,319
that you are not a lay person giving

1060
00:47:30,319 --> 00:47:32,880
back opinion on someone else's value. So

1061
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:34,240
that's what I'm look for.

1062
00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:44,470
>> Okay. All right.

1063
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,960
I just think fellow board members that

1064
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:48,640
somebody

1065
00:47:48,640 --> 00:47:50,640
um [clears throat] even if they were

1066
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,960
allowed to give an opinion of what their

1067
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,440
property is worth to speculate as to

1068
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,560
what having a short-term rental house

1069
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:00,560
nearby is going to do to their property

1070
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:02,400
value. And that's just that's just not

1071
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,680
something a lay person is ready to do.

1072
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,160
Um,

1073
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:14,230
I just don't think it's um

1074
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,480
where we should go. Anybody have any

1075
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,720
other

1076
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:20,640
>> I see where you're coming from, but I

1077
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:22,160
think if she comes up with a case law,

1078
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:24,720
we have to consider that as well because

1079
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:25,040
>> Yeah.

1080
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:26,480
>> We don't want to be put in a position

1081
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,640
where we aren't giving the people

1082
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,520
>> the voice.

1083
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:52,309
>> Yeah.

1084
00:48:52,319 --> 00:48:57,430
What is that?

1085
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:03,593
Sure.

1086
00:49:03,603 --> 00:49:27,990
[clears throat]

1087
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,520
Sorry, I'm screwed.

1088
00:49:29,520 --> 00:50:02,470
>> I like I like having

1089
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:17,609
Get it away from me.

1090
00:50:17,619 --> 00:50:18,960
[snorts]

1091
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,829
What does this mean?

1092
00:50:23,839 --> 00:50:26,559
proximity is

1093
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:28,319
you can factor that in but it's not

1094
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:30,240
enough just because you're right close

1095
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:31,040
by

1096
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:32,559
>> but I just didn't mean that they're

1097
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:34,160
saying there I'm just trying to

1098
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:40,950
understand what that means

1099
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,870
» it's not

1100
00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:46,960
true

1101
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:52,790
that's true I have Um [clears throat]

1102
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:58,079
so um one of the Mr. brought up the um

1103
00:50:58,079 --> 00:50:59,760
school of government which is I agreed

1104
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:01,760
an excellent resource. They have lots of

1105
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,040
blogs and articles and things

1106
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:04,880
interpreting case laws that comes out.

1107
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:11,359
Um one of them is um a blog from Adam Love Lady. Can the

1108
00:51:11,359 --> 00:51:12,960
neighbor speak? Can the neighbor appeal

1109
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,760
standing in quasa judicial hearings? Um

1110
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,079
it discusses a couple cases. One of them

1111
00:51:18,079 --> 00:51:24,319
is um the um Mangum versus Raleigh Board

1112
00:51:24,319 --> 00:51:27,200
of Adjustment case which says proximity

1113
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:28,880
is a factor in standing but not

1114
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,200
determinative as noted in the case of

1115
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,480
Mangum versus Raleigh Board of

1116
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:35,520
Adjustment which is a case from 2008 um

1117
00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:39,359
Supreme Court. Um while proximity in and

1118
00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:40,880
of itself is insufficient to grant

1119
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,319
standing, it does bear some weight on

1120
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:43,599
the issue of whether the complaining

1121
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:44,960
party has suffered or will suffer

1122
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,880
special damages distinct from those

1123
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,559
damages um to the public at large. And

1124
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:52,880
in Mangum, the court allowed the

1125
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,640
interveners um the the the the board at

1126
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:58,160
the first level and then of course on

1127
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:01,680
appeal affirmed the um intervention

1128
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,480
stating that um

1129
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,720
uh let's see that they had standing um

1130
00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:10,720
based on a combination of proximity and

1131
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,280
potential injury. The inter interveners

1132
00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,119
own property contiguous to the subject

1133
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,680
property which we have here or in the

1134
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:20,400
immediate vicinity. Interveners access

1135
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:22,240
their property by one road, the same

1136
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:24,480
road accessing the subject property and

1137
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,160
the proposed increase in density on the

1138
00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,000
subject property. That's an increase in

1139
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,079
density issue, but they testified as to

1140
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:32,079
traffic, light pollution, noise and

1141
00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:34,640
other related pollution. So in that

1142
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,520
case, there was there was no reliance on

1143
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,160
even dimmunition and value testimony. It

1144
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,000
was purely concerns regarding light

1145
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,880
safety, noise, traffic, light pollution.

1146
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:46,400
Um,

1147
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,640
so, um, that [clears throat] again,

1148
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,359
that's the Mangum versus,

1149
00:52:51,359 --> 00:52:54,319
um, Raleigh Board of Adjustment. Let's

1150
00:52:54,319 --> 00:53:02,549
see if I can find another one.

1151
00:53:02,559 --> 00:53:05,956
Wouldn't Wouldn't you agree that the the

1152
00:53:05,956 --> 00:53:07,359
[clears throat] building has four units?

1153
00:53:07,359 --> 00:53:09,440
Wouldn't you agree that there going to

1154
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:12,079
be four families there at some point

1155
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:13,760
regardless and they're going to all have

1156
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,839
cars and they're all going to be human

1157
00:53:15,839 --> 00:53:18,401
beings and make some noise?

1158
00:53:18,401 --> 00:53:18,960
[snorts]

1159
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:21,359
>> Well, that's true. But I think I I guess

1160
00:53:21,359 --> 00:53:23,280
if what you're saying is that is that

1161
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,520
short-term rentals

1162
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,520
or have the same impact that regular

1163
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:30,319
permanent residents do. Your own

1164
00:53:30,319 --> 00:53:32,240
ordinance says the opposite. your own

1165
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:33,760
ordinance regulates short-term rentals

1166
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:35,280
and specifically says because of the

1167
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,040
negative impacts of short-term rentals.

1168
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,960
So the town is utterly determined as a

1169
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:40,480
matter of law that short-term rentals

1170
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,960
have a distinct impact from as per from

1171
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,559
permanent. And I would also just say

1172
00:53:44,559 --> 00:53:46,480
this, if you think about it from this

1173
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:48,160
perspective, there is this process of

1174
00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:49,440
intervention. We have to go through

1175
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:50,880
this. I understand we have to show

1176
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,119
certain um at least make a good face

1177
00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:56,960
showing of certain special damages.

1178
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:03,040
There's really if you could argue that if you continue on

1179
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,119
the I think the the rationale that

1180
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:06,880
you're taking then nobody's going to be

1181
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,720
able to approve special damages or ever

1182
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:11,200
intervene in a case of this type again

1183
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,440
because what are going to be the the

1184
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,200
impacts are always going to be concerns

1185
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,000
exactly as what were stated. So it's

1186
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,359
increase in use um there but those

1187
00:54:21,359 --> 00:54:22,960
impacts have already been identified by

1188
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,599
the ordinance as existing. So those are

1189
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:32,240
in fact impacts as a matter of of law in a sense because the ordinance is law.

1190
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:36,319
Um did you want to say something?

1191
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:41,119
>> Okay. Um and other than other than you

1192
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:42,400
know them being worried [clears throat]

1193
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,079
because it's not an ongoing use right

1194
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:46,880
now. um which is a whole another issue

1195
00:54:46,880 --> 00:54:47,680
as to whether it should be

1196
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,119
grandfathered, but because the

1197
00:54:49,119 --> 00:54:50,720
short-term rentals aren't there now,

1198
00:54:50,720 --> 00:54:52,240
they can't speak to what the current

1199
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:54,000
impacts are because there aren't

1200
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,160
short-term rentals. So, this is

1201
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:57,920
necessarily that evidence is going to

1202
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,319
have to be in the nature of what it is,

1203
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:02,880
which is concerns, legitimate concerns.

1204
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:04,559
But that's why I say we're not talking

1205
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:05,839
about somebody that lives down the

1206
00:55:05,839 --> 00:55:07,359
street that's going to complain there

1207
00:55:07,359 --> 00:55:10,079
going to be more cars on my road. This

1208
00:55:10,079 --> 00:55:13,920
is talking about I live and can I if you

1209
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,319
can hear your neighbor barbe barbecuing

1210
00:55:16,319 --> 00:55:18,720
on their deck and now it's not your

1211
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,400
neighbor. It's going to be potentially a

1212
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:22,640
different person every few nights.

1213
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:24,480
Groups of people and the impacts that

1214
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:25,760
the ordinance talks about are the fact

1215
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:31,119
that short-term rentals brings groups. It brings groups more

1216
00:55:31,119 --> 00:55:34,319
than just one or two people um you know

1217
00:55:34,319 --> 00:55:38,559
celebrating special occasions etc. And I don't have that pulled up, but I can

1218
00:55:38,559 --> 00:55:40,240
because it is in the ordinance as to

1219
00:55:40,240 --> 00:55:47,910
what the impacts are.

1220
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:49,760
» Uh Mr. Hollister, do you want to weigh

1221
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:53,680
in on this? Do you have anything to say?

1222
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,680
>> I really don't.

1223
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:57,680
>> Okay. Mr. Patrick, do you have anything

1224
00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:01,750
you want?

1225
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,040
» Well, we'll have to vote on it. to all

1226
00:56:05,040 --> 00:56:07,440
board members. It's um

1227
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:09,359
>> Chelsea, you're still looking up case

1228
00:56:09,359 --> 00:56:09,839
law.

1229
00:56:09,839 --> 00:56:12,160
>> Um well, Mr. Martin just brought me a a

1230
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:13,760
case. I was just going to I mean, and

1231
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,079
this is a little bit of a one-off, but

1232
00:56:16,079 --> 00:56:18,160
it does help with the context of the

1233
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:19,838
property value issues. Um

1234
00:56:19,838 --> 00:56:20,559
[clears throat]

1235
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:24,079
and that's where again, all of these all

1236
00:56:24,079 --> 00:56:25,760
have slightly different context, so just

1237
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,920
acknowledge the context of this case is

1238
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:29,599
responsible citizens in opposition to

1239
00:56:29,599 --> 00:56:31,359
the flood plane ordinance versus the

1240
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:35,119
city of Asheville. um in in that case

1241
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:39,440
which is still good law and um it was a

1242
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,040
Supreme Court case from 83 actually um

1243
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,319
there are contexts where um owners can

1244
00:56:46,319 --> 00:56:48,160
testify

1245
00:56:48,160 --> 00:56:51,040
as to the value and I'm going down to

1246
00:56:51,040 --> 00:57:14,630
the um

1247
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:16,960
So owners of properties in that case

1248
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:18,880
again just to give context that was

1249
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,960
owners challenging a zoning ordinance.

1250
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,040
Okay. But owners of properties which

1251
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:24,559
were allegedly subject to a zoning

1252
00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:26,880
ordinance that allegedly affected a

1253
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:28,720
taking of property without just

1254
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:30,799
compensation were qualified to testify

1255
00:57:30,799 --> 00:57:32,720
respect the damaging effect of that

1256
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,079
ordinance on the value of their

1257
00:57:34,079 --> 00:57:36,400
properties. And though the trial court

1258
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,200
in that case excluded that testimony

1259
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,359
which was error

1260
00:57:41,359 --> 00:57:44,480
um the court determined that that error

1261
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:45,839
um [clears throat]

1262
00:57:45,839 --> 00:57:47,200
would not necessarily have been

1263
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:48,880
prejuditial. So that was the context of

1264
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,280
how it's discussed. Point is an owner

1265
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,200
can testify as to the value of their own

1266
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:54,559
property. Now you can decide on what

1267
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:56,880
weight you give to that and all that in

1268
00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:58,480
all those contexts, but this is not a

1269
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,440
lay person giving an opinion of value

1270
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:03,119
the same way you would exclude somebody

1271
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:04,799
who is not qualified as an expert

1272
00:58:04,799 --> 00:58:05,920
because they're allowed to give an

1273
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,240
opinion of their own property's value.

1274
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:09,839
So

1275
00:58:09,839 --> 00:58:10,400
>> I'm scared.

1276
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,680
>> But again, I don't think we even need

1277
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,079
that. I don't I honestly I would I would

1278
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:16,000
rest on all the other impacts. So

1279
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:19,599
>> what's the number for that case? uh

1280
00:58:19,599 --> 00:58:23,760
>> uh 308 and C255.

1281
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:24,960
>> Thank you.

1282
00:58:24,960 --> 00:58:30,710
>> But again, I don't I I honestly think

1283
00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:32,000
I don't want to get too far into the

1284
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,680
weeds on the value issue because if you

1285
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:36,319
want to even ignore that, that's fine. I

1286
00:58:36,319 --> 00:58:40,400
think the impacts um the other impacts

1287
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,440
are sufficient.

1288
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,319
Let me read what uh

1289
00:58:46,319 --> 00:58:48,480
the school of government said about

1290
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:50,960
secondary impacts.

1291
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,200
The individual alleging standing must

1292
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:55,119
show secondary adverse impacts

1293
00:58:55,119 --> 00:58:57,680
particular to his or her property. For

1294
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,000
example, impacts related by traffic,

1295
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,040
parking, security, storm water runoff,

1296
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:04,960
littering, and noise may be key factors

1297
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:08,079
in depreciating property values. The

1298
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:09,839
essential element is a credible

1299
00:59:09,839 --> 00:59:12,240
allegation of harm to the use and

1300
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:16,640
enjoyment of a particular property.

1301
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,040
And then I'll I'll go back and say vague

1302
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:20,720
general allegations of decreased

1303
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:25,349
property value are insufficient.

1304
00:59:25,359 --> 00:59:27,200
The essential element is a credible

1305
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:31,040
allegation of harm. I I just

1306
00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:34,150
um

1307
00:59:34,160 --> 00:59:36,079
we'll see how the board

1308
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:37,839
>> but and I would just say you keep coming

1309
00:59:37,839 --> 00:59:39,680
back to the value those other impacts

1310
00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:41,119
don't have to be impacts on the value.

1311
00:59:41,119 --> 00:59:43,359
They can be impacts on employment. It

1312
00:59:43,359 --> 00:59:46,319
doesn't have to be a value impact. So,

1313
00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:53,190
um I I'm going to go find where what section is the short-term rental

1314
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:56,950
article

1315
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,069
» 10

1316
01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:02,480
towards the end.

1317
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:08,789
I think it's 10

1318
01:00:08,799 --> 01:00:26,549
rules.

1319
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:29,119
10 16-10

1320
01:00:29,119 --> 01:00:34,069
12

1321
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:40,710
in fact

1322
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:51,349
right

1323
01:00:51,359 --> 01:00:54,640
All right, Mr. Patrick.

1324
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:00,710
>> All right, fellow board members. Um,

1325
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,720
we're going to do a motion and a vote as

1326
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,599
to whether and we'll take these folks

1327
01:01:05,599 --> 01:01:07,680
one at a time

1328
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:10,400
have met their obligation for standing.

1329
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:15,589
I think you get the idea. It can't be

1330
01:01:15,599 --> 01:01:18,160
big and

1331
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:21,119
very speculative. It's it's it's got to

1332
01:01:21,119 --> 01:01:26,400
be a very credible um

1333
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,119
allegation of special damages.

1334
01:01:29,119 --> 01:01:36,197
Um,

1335
01:01:36,207 --> 01:01:38,880
[snorts] so from the first uh person

1336
01:01:38,880 --> 01:01:42,640
that came up, Miss Fence,

1337
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,079
forgive me on that. Uh, I'll note that

1338
01:01:46,079 --> 01:01:46,559
um,

1339
01:01:46,559 --> 01:01:48,559
>> Mr. Springs, uh, somebody in the back

1340
01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:50,960
here to speak up a little bit. Okay.

1341
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:54,069
Microphone.

1342
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:56,640
Um,

1343
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:00,000
we'll start with Miss Freric's. Um, I'm

1344
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,640
going to note that um, maybe I didn't

1345
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,440
take good notes, but it's the damage to

1346
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,559
property values that is the most Well, I

1347
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,400
think that's pretty much all she hung

1348
01:02:10,400 --> 01:02:11,520
her hat on on that.

1349
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:13,680
>> No, I specifically didn't. I

1350
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:15,440
specifically just repeated several times

1351
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,280
that you could throw out the property

1352
01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:18,880
value argument and then we have other

1353
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:20,000
negative impacts.

1354
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:21,920
>> Okay. I didn't hear any any other

1355
01:02:21,920 --> 01:02:23,760
impacts from this frag. Do you want to

1356
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,640
reopen her direct examination?

1357
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:27,040
>> Um,

1358
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:28,400
>> I heard her talk about property value,

1359
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:30,400
but I didn't hear hear anything else.

1360
01:02:30,400 --> 01:02:32,400
>> Well, she she spoke to being concerned

1361
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,400
about generally about safety um from

1362
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,079
living from having not knowing neighbors

1363
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:40,079
and having strangers be down the street.

1364
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:42,720
So, or two doors down, but that was that

1365
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:44,960
was it. I apologize, Mr. Spring. I

1366
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:47,119
thought you were referring to I didn't

1367
01:02:47,119 --> 01:02:48,559
realize you're referring to Miss Fair. I

1368
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:50,319
didn't hear who you were speaking.

1369
01:02:50,319 --> 01:02:53,839
>> I'm sorry. I'm I'm a mumbler. Um, fellow

1370
01:02:53,839 --> 01:02:56,000
board members, all I heard her say was

1371
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:58,240
she was worried about property bays.

1372
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,799
Anybody hear her say anything else?

1373
01:03:00,799 --> 01:03:01,920
>> Her safety.

1374
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:03,280
>> Yeah, I heard

1375
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:06,799
>> safety as in the context of knowing her

1376
01:03:06,799 --> 01:03:08,480
neighbors if she were to slip in the

1377
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,880
ice, for example.

1378
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:15,510
>> Okay.

1379
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,839
» All right. We'll take them one by one.

1380
01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:22,079
Um,

1381
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:25,359
the motion has to either say she she um

1382
01:03:25,359 --> 01:03:28,160
established standing or she hasn't. Uh,

1383
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:30,319
I'll say I got to pick one or the other.

1384
01:03:30,319 --> 01:03:32,079
I'll pick has established standing. And

1385
01:03:32,079 --> 01:03:34,559
if you don't think so, you can say no.

1386
01:03:34,559 --> 01:03:37,119
So, make a motion that we find Miss

1387
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,039
Sarah Fry

1388
01:03:39,039 --> 01:03:41,680
um has established standing to enter

1389
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,920
into the case before us. Is there a

1390
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:44,559
second?

1391
01:03:44,559 --> 01:03:46,000
>> I second it.

1392
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:51,280
>> And Mr. Sher seconds. Um,

1393
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:53,440
>> I can't hear anything. Nothing.

1394
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:55,440
>> I'm doing the best I can. [laughter]

1395
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:57,920
>> Do those just record or do they also

1396
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,670
>> I don't

1397
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:05,280
I'll try to speak up. Um,

1398
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,599
>> all those.

1399
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:15,750
>> No, I don't think

1400
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:16,720
» you can hear it.

1401
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:17,839
>> All right. Is that better?

1402
01:04:17,839 --> 01:04:19,280
>> Yes. Yeah.

1403
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:19,760
>> Okay.

1404
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:22,480
>> M. Are you closing discussion?

1405
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,720
>> Um I I'm [snorts] sorry. I was going to

1406
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:27,839
do Do you have further?

1407
01:04:27,839 --> 01:04:29,680
>> I'd just like to discuss.

1408
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,599
>> Sure. Let's go. Let's Let's go back

1409
01:04:31,599 --> 01:04:34,559
before I withdraw the motion and let's

1410
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:37,599
have further discussion on Miss U. Sarah

1411
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:40,559
Fri's situation. Mr. Mr. Walker,

1412
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:42,079
>> I'm talking more in general.

1413
01:04:42,079 --> 01:04:46,960
>> Okay. Go ahead. If I go back to 1402

1414
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:49,839
J3A,

1415
01:04:49,839 --> 01:04:53,280
um it says

1416
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,599
well it says two things in particular.

1417
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:59,280
Use value of your use impacting other

1418
01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,400
property value of your property and

1419
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:04,400
specifically says increased behavior and

1420
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,720
traffic are both conclusively

1421
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,319
incompetent.

1422
01:05:08,319 --> 01:05:10,400
conclusively.

1423
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,000
Um,

1424
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,880
and it's in general what I've heard is

1425
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:18,559
personal safety, light, noise, and then

1426
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:21,680
property. All of which to me are vague.

1427
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:23,440
Light, noise, safety. That's all vague

1428
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:26,000
to me and leads into property value.

1429
01:05:26,000 --> 01:05:28,160
Seems like secondary

1430
01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:32,390
um concerns

1431
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:34,000
um

1432
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,390
or hypothetical concerns.

1433
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,680
Um, I think they're legitimate concerns,

1434
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,119
but I ju I just don't think there's

1435
01:05:45,119 --> 01:05:48,319
been enough put before us to to get to

1436
01:05:48,319 --> 01:05:51,520
grander standing.

1437
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:53,119
>> Anybody want to see if anybody had any

1438
01:05:53,119 --> 01:05:53,520
other

1439
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:57,359
>> I think the uh the idea

1440
01:05:57,359 --> 01:05:59,680
what all that noise is. Um, I live in

1441
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:01,839
I'm a full-time resident in a Chhatola

1442
01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:03,520
condo and there are short-term rentals

1443
01:06:03,520 --> 01:06:06,799
all around me. And I can tell you from

1444
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:08,880
my experience that there is additional

1445
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:10,559
noise

1446
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:13,119
and

1447
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:15,599
unsettled things compared to a full-time

1448
01:06:15,599 --> 01:06:18,319
resident or a like a person who lives in

1449
01:06:18,319 --> 01:06:20,000
Florida and comes up in the in the

1450
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,240
summer compared to a short-term rental

1451
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:24,960
where you sometimes have multiple cars,

1452
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:27,039
multiple people

1453
01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:31,200
um and uh making a significant amount of

1454
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:34,000
noise more than a person that just lives

1455
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,920
there. They might drive up, take their

1456
01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:38,319
groceries in for a short-term rental.

1457
01:06:38,319 --> 01:06:41,599
You're going to have more activity and

1458
01:06:41,599 --> 01:06:44,960
it can be disruptive. Um, but it's not

1459
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:46,720
necessarily. So, my wife and I rent

1460
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:48,799
Airbnbs and we try to be, you know,

1461
01:06:48,799 --> 01:06:50,720
courteous and, yeah, we unload a whole

1462
01:06:50,720 --> 01:06:52,160
bunch of stuff out of our car. We're

1463
01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:55,760
going in and out. Um, and that can be,

1464
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:58,240
you know, disruptive to someone who is a

1465
01:06:58,240 --> 01:07:01,280
full-time resident or, you know, not

1466
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:04,366
renting their place out. So for me,

1467
01:07:04,366 --> 01:07:05,599
[clears throat] I hear these three

1468
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:08,400
people and I think they have standing

1469
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:10,400
just based on my own experience. Now,

1470
01:07:10,400 --> 01:07:13,119
the law is another another issue, and

1471
01:07:13,119 --> 01:07:15,119
there could be fine lines that we need

1472
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:17,920
to delineate,

1473
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:20,960
>> but to me, just the idea of a short-term

1474
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,680
rental means additional impact on the

1475
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:26,079
neighborhood, cars coming and going more

1476
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:28,880
frequently, people coming and going more

1477
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:31,839
frequently, and potentially, you know,

1478
01:07:31,839 --> 01:07:35,510
loud parties.

1479
01:07:35,520 --> 01:07:38,240
C can you read what the town says?

1480
01:07:38,240 --> 01:07:39,839
>> Yes, please.

1481
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:41,680
That's okay. I know it's a little out of

1482
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:46,880
order track. Um, so this the section

1483
01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:49,599
16-10.2.12

1484
01:07:49,599 --> 01:07:51,839
short-term rentals. The board finds that

1485
01:07:51,839 --> 01:07:53,440
short-term rentals are an appropriate

1486
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:54,799
use given the residential resort

1487
01:07:54,799 --> 01:07:56,160
character of Rock's planning

1488
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:58,240
jurisdiction, provided that specific

1489
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,000
controls are in place to regulate

1490
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,559
parking, trash, noise, tenant safety,

1491
01:08:02,559 --> 01:08:04,319
and other related effects, thereby

1492
01:08:04,319 --> 01:08:06,400
protecting neighborhood property values

1493
01:08:06,400 --> 01:08:07,760
and the health, safety, and general

1494
01:08:07,760 --> 01:08:10,960
welfare of town citizens and visitors.

1495
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:15,359
that specifically finds that that means

1496
01:08:15,359 --> 01:08:18,000
that short-term rentals have specific

1497
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:20,400
impacts on parking, trash, noise, tenant

1498
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,880
safety, and other effects that will have

1499
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:24,640
impacts on property values, health

1500
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:26,799
safety, and general welfare. So, I I

1501
01:08:26,799 --> 01:08:28,560
understand what Mr. Walker is saying,

1502
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,759
and I don't disagree, but it isn't all

1503
01:08:31,759 --> 01:08:34,400
necessarily tied to values. It is those

1504
01:08:34,400 --> 01:08:37,839
are impacts that we have been permitted

1505
01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:40,640
the law has allowed the the town to find

1506
01:08:40,640 --> 01:08:43,520
are make short terminals different from

1507
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:46,400
permanent residential use. The other

1508
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,440
thing is they are the testimony has to

1509
01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:50,880
be speculative. Again, you're talking

1510
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:52,400
about a use that doesn't currently

1511
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,000
exist. That's like saying you're not

1512
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:55,520
allowed to testify to the impact of a

1513
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:57,040
proposed hotel because it's not there

1514
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,199
yet.

1515
01:08:59,199 --> 01:09:00,880
It's not happening right now. So, they

1516
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:02,080
are speculative. They have to be.

1517
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:03,199
There's no way for you to get better

1518
01:09:03,199 --> 01:09:07,679
evidence of that. So, I'm those with I'm

1519
01:09:07,679 --> 01:09:09,199
in my humble opinion, those are not

1520
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:11,359
reasons to deny standing because they're

1521
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:18,309
impossible [snorts] to prove.

1522
01:09:18,319 --> 01:09:21,910
» Should we go back to

1523
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,640
» All right. Have we closed discussion?

1524
01:09:24,640 --> 01:09:28,799
>> No. I the the town has passed this

1525
01:09:28,799 --> 01:09:31,359
ordinance saying they think short-term

1526
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:34,159
rental is different.

1527
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:36,319
>> How can we stand up here and say they're

1528
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:41,269
wrong?

1529
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:43,440
» Well, I think I think

1530
01:09:43,440 --> 01:09:45,440
>> we're doing opinion. The town has

1531
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:48,880
already passed this ordinance.

1532
01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:51,759
I mean, to me that's different

1533
01:09:51,759 --> 01:09:56,149
subjects. We're speculating

1534
01:09:56,159 --> 01:09:58,400
and they've already made the case for

1535
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:01,520
short-term rentals need special handling

1536
01:10:01,520 --> 01:10:03,360
and I don't know what kind of special

1537
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:05,520
handling they get here. So,

1538
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,320
>> well, we can't say because of the town

1539
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,600
made that pronouncement that all

1540
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:14,719
um standing shall be allowed. We can't

1541
01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:16,080
go

1542
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,159
>> there. We have it's it's a very factsp

1543
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:20,080
specific situation. We got to look at

1544
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,480
this case. each one of these three

1545
01:10:22,480 --> 01:10:24,719
people their what they say their

1546
01:10:24,719 --> 01:10:26,880
situation is.

1547
01:10:26,880 --> 01:10:30,149
Um

1548
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:32,400
is there anyone who might say if these

1549
01:10:32,400 --> 01:10:34,080
people don't have standing then no one

1550
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:39,270
does.

1551
01:10:39,280 --> 01:10:42,630
» Yeah.

1552
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,080
» Say that again.

1553
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:46,000
>> But if these people don't have standing

1554
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,600
then really no one does. They live

1555
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:49,760
within 50 ft.

1556
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:52,400
I'm asking a different question. Why is

1557
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:54,719
why the town do this if those people

1558
01:10:54,719 --> 01:10:56,800
don't have staff? They have to have

1559
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,470
staff.

1560
01:11:00,480 --> 01:11:04,550
» I think so.

1561
01:11:04,560 --> 01:11:05,440
» All right. Well, let's go.

1562
01:11:05,440 --> 01:11:07,360
>> It's not five people making a decision.

1563
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,320
The whole town has elected people and

1564
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,760
asked to short-term rules get handled

1565
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,000
differently.

1566
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:18,960
I we can have opinions.

1567
01:11:18,960 --> 01:11:20,400
I don't even know whether they have a

1568
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,719
different PE property owners association

1569
01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:26,239
to handle these issues.

1570
01:11:26,239 --> 01:11:28,080
>> And Kevin, can you speak to why we send

1571
01:11:28,080 --> 01:11:30,000
out notices to all the people within a

1572
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:32,560
certain proximity

1573
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:33,679
of the property? [clears throat]

1574
01:11:33,679 --> 01:11:35,920
>> Well, simply the statute is required.

1575
01:11:35,920 --> 01:11:38,719
>> Okay. But hopefully there's a reason

1576
01:11:38,719 --> 01:11:39,600
behind it.

1577
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:40,960
>> Yes.

1578
01:11:40,960 --> 01:11:43,040
>> All right. Well, let's move on. I don't

1579
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:44,560
think I'm trying to make a case either

1580
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:46,400
way. I'm saying the town already had

1581
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,199
this opinion, so we have to say they

1582
01:11:49,199 --> 01:11:50,560
have a standing

1583
01:11:50,560 --> 01:11:52,320
>> or the town wouldn't have this ordinance

1584
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:57,110
or whatever this is called.

1585
01:11:57,120 --> 01:11:59,040
» All right, let's take them one by one.

1586
01:11:59,040 --> 01:11:59,840
Um,

1587
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:01,120
>> I've got one more.

1588
01:12:01,120 --> 01:12:01,520
>> Sure.

1589
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:02,159
>> Comment.

1590
01:12:02,159 --> 01:12:02,719
>> Sure.

1591
01:12:02,719 --> 01:12:09,600
>> Mr. Schiller, gave his personal opinion

1592
01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:13,440
based on Chola and where he lives about

1593
01:12:13,440 --> 01:12:16,320
again for him it wasn't hypothetical but

1594
01:12:16,320 --> 01:12:20,080
it was all uh secondary impacts is that

1595
01:12:20,080 --> 01:12:21,840
even

1596
01:12:21,840 --> 01:12:28,709
admissive here his personal opinion

1597
01:12:28,719 --> 01:12:30,960
well our discussions

1598
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:34,719
uh have to be in public and he expressed

1599
01:12:34,719 --> 01:12:36,080
Yeah,

1600
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,000
>> but his personal opinion sounds to me

1601
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:39,840
like a [clears throat]

1602
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,360
potential predisposition to where this

1603
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:44,800
heads.

1604
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:46,800
>> That's a predisposition to allowing

1605
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:49,120
standing because there there is an

1606
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:51,280
impact. I mean, I I had seen the impact.

1607
01:12:51,280 --> 01:12:53,520
So, I just project that onto other

1608
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:55,679
people. They're going to have a similar

1609
01:12:55,679 --> 01:12:57,679
they've come forward because of the

1610
01:12:57,679 --> 01:13:00,000
notice. They want to speak. they want to

1611
01:13:00,000 --> 01:13:03,360
say, you know, in opposition to the

1612
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:06,480
short-term use because of the potential

1613
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:09,679
impacts. I see the impacts. Now, I made

1614
01:13:09,679 --> 01:13:10,640
it's [clears throat] my opinion that

1615
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:12,880
it's an impact.

1616
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,960
Um, but, you know, it's

1617
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:18,480
>> banks. I just want to clarify.

1618
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:19,520
>> Yeah, sure. Sure.

1619
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:20,320
>> It's my

1620
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,440
>> I agree.

1621
01:13:23,440 --> 01:13:25,040
>> We've kicked it around. Let's see how

1622
01:13:25,040 --> 01:13:30,960
the vote does. I have a pretty good idea how we go, but I move

1623
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:33,040
that um

1624
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,239
we find that Sarah Fry

1625
01:13:36,239 --> 01:13:39,280
um has established

1626
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,520
um special damage is sufficient to have

1627
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,840
standing in this case. Do I have a

1628
01:13:43,840 --> 01:13:44,320
second?

1629
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:45,120
>> I second.

1630
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,679
>> Mr. Schiller seconds.

1631
01:13:47,679 --> 01:13:51,199
Um all those in favor of finding that

1632
01:13:51,199 --> 01:13:54,719
she has established standing say I.

1633
01:13:54,719 --> 01:13:59,040
>> I. All those that think she has not um

1634
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,800
shown sufficient special damages say no.

1635
01:14:02,800 --> 01:14:08,080
So it's 3 to two

1636
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:11,120
and so she has standing.

1637
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:14,480
Um moving to Mary Lee Howell.

1638
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:15,199
Um

1639
01:14:15,199 --> 01:14:16,880
>> so you voted no.

1640
01:14:16,880 --> 01:14:18,239
>> I voted no.

1641
01:14:18,239 --> 01:14:25,430
>> Okay. It's three

1642
01:14:25,440 --> 01:14:26,239
She has standing.

1643
01:14:26,239 --> 01:14:27,520
>> I just didn't hear his.

1644
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,600
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I said that. It's

1645
01:14:29,600 --> 01:14:32,080
three. It's three to two.

1646
01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:34,719
Um

1647
01:14:34,719 --> 01:14:36,960
on Mary Lee How? Anyone have any

1648
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,719
discussion on on her situation and her

1649
01:14:40,719 --> 01:14:43,840
u special damages? Anything further?

1650
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,840
>> Are we are we're voting whether she has

1651
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:47,600
standing or not? What's the specific?

1652
01:14:47,600 --> 01:14:49,120
>> Yeah, I' I've got to make the motion.

1653
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,760
either didn't make her case or didn't

1654
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,560
make it did or did not. I I'm just

1655
01:14:54,560 --> 01:14:57,840
choosing to make the motion that she did

1656
01:14:57,840 --> 01:14:59,360
establish standing.

1657
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:00,719
>> And if you don't think she did, you'll

1658
01:15:00,719 --> 01:15:03,760
say nay like I did on the last one. Um

1659
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:05,440
so I make a motion that we find that

1660
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:08,400
Mary Lee Howell has established

1661
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:10,560
sufficient uh special damages to

1662
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,159
establish standing. Is there a second?

1663
01:15:14,159 --> 01:15:14,800
>> Second.

1664
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,640
>> And Mr. Scher second that. And all those

1665
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:21,520
finding that Mary Lee Howell has uh

1666
01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,120
produced sufficient evidence that she

1667
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:24,800
has special damages and deserves

1668
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,360
standing say I. I.

1669
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:29,440
>> We said that's three. All those that

1670
01:15:29,440 --> 01:15:32,640
feel like um she has not produced enough

1671
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,800
to u deserve standing say nay.

1672
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:39,760
>> Nay. That's two. So she is she does have

1673
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:41,280
standing. She's allowed to come into

1674
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:44,320
this case as does Sarah Fri. Moving to

1675
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:47,520
Chris Kemper. Uh, any more discussion on

1676
01:15:47,520 --> 01:15:49,840
Mr. Kemper's situation?

1677
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,480
All right. I make a motion to find that

1678
01:15:52,480 --> 01:15:55,440
Mr. Kemper did produce evidence of

1679
01:15:55,440 --> 01:15:58,239
special damages such that

1680
01:15:58,239 --> 01:16:00,960
um, he deserves to come into this case

1681
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:04,080
as a party. He has standing. If you

1682
01:16:04,080 --> 01:16:06,480
think he does, say, u,

1683
01:16:06,480 --> 01:16:09,440
>> oh, I'm sorry. Do I have a second?

1684
01:16:09,440 --> 01:16:12,719
>> Mr. Scher again is the second. Um all

1685
01:16:12,719 --> 01:16:15,040
those that feel like he has established

1686
01:16:15,040 --> 01:16:17,199
standing say I.

1687
01:16:17,199 --> 01:16:18,159
>> Okay.

1688
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:20,320
>> And all those that feel he has not say

1689
01:16:20,320 --> 01:16:23,760
no. Nay. It's 3 to2 again. So he is

1690
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:28,000
allowed to come in as a party. [snorts]

1691
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:34,950
All right. Moving along.

1692
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:38,480
Let's swear um all the witnesses, the

1693
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:40,080
potential witnesses that haven't been

1694
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:41,760
sworn in yet. Let's have let's do them

1695
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:56,310
as a group if we could come on up.

1696
01:16:56,320 --> 01:16:58,239
» The evidence you shall give this body

1697
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:00,800
and this matter shall be shall be the

1698
01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:02,640
truth, the whole truth and nothing but

1699
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:20,390
the truth.

1700
01:17:20,400 --> 01:17:23,120
All right, we'll start with the uh town

1701
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,520
of Blowing Rock

1702
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:27,679
and

1703
01:17:27,679 --> 01:17:30,480
the person that's going to state their

1704
01:17:30,480 --> 01:17:36,149
case. Come on up.

1705
01:17:36,159 --> 01:17:38,719
one point in order just the order of

1706
01:17:38,719 --> 01:17:42,960
evidence but um that the appeal by Mr.

1707
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:44,480
Hollister, which I think he has the

1708
01:17:44,480 --> 01:17:46,080
right to go first, but from a

1709
01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:47,840
evidentiary standpoint, I I have a

1710
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,920
question about whether we are going to

1711
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:52,400
be talking about this property as one

1712
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,640
property or four. And the reason for

1713
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:57,360
that is that these are four legally

1714
01:17:57,360 --> 01:18:01,280
distinct real estate units that were

1715
01:18:01,280 --> 01:18:03,600
acquired in one deed, but have been

1716
01:18:03,600 --> 01:18:05,120
previously owned based on their chains

1717
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,199
of title by multiple different owners

1718
01:18:07,199 --> 01:18:08,880
individually, sometimes together,

1719
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:13,040
sometimes separately. and that each unit

1720
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:14,960
and the history of rentals and whether

1721
01:18:14,960 --> 01:18:16,880
any one unit should qualify has to be

1722
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,880
taken separately. It's not the property

1723
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:20,560
as a whole. These it's not an apartment

1724
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:22,400
building. These are separately. You

1725
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,000
could convey any one of these units in a

1726
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,560
separate deed to someone else. Um and

1727
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,000
they they were owned separately and

1728
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:29,280
could have been rented long-term or

1729
01:18:29,280 --> 01:18:30,719
short-term separately for whatever the

1730
01:18:30,719 --> 01:18:32,800
history may be. So, I think they have to

1731
01:18:32,800 --> 01:18:39,270
be taken separately.

1732
01:18:39,280 --> 01:18:42,709
Let's um [clears throat]

1733
01:18:42,719 --> 01:18:44,719
Okay. Well, let's call that a motion and

1734
01:18:44,719 --> 01:18:47,840
let's let's see what Mr. Hollis if Mr.

1735
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:48,880
>> That's really fine. I just wanted to

1736
01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:50,560
make that clear up front because I don't

1737
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,080
I think it's viewed a little it's sort

1738
01:18:52,080 --> 01:18:56,880
of lumped together in the appeal and um

1739
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:00,560
that's it. Thank you.

1740
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,239
>> We'll get Mr. Hollister to speak to

1741
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:04,880
that. Let me look

1742
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:18,149
for something.

1743
01:19:18,159 --> 01:19:20,239
» We got to get some advertising. We got

1744
01:19:20,239 --> 01:19:28,149
to get people to We got to get

1745
01:19:28,159 --> 01:19:30,080
what we got,

1746
01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:32,800
too.

1747
01:19:32,800 --> 01:20:00,149
for you.

1748
01:20:00,159 --> 01:20:02,560
» Well,

1749
01:20:02,560 --> 01:20:06,560
It's one It's one property. Eie, do you

1750
01:20:06,560 --> 01:20:10,719
want me to um lead off and go through

1751
01:20:10,719 --> 01:20:12,239
the staff report and then y'all can

1752
01:20:12,239 --> 01:20:13,600
decide how you want to

1753
01:20:13,600 --> 01:20:15,760
>> Let's Let's Let's go ahead and get this

1754
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:19,199
addressed. Now, I'm looking for uh some

1755
01:20:19,199 --> 01:20:22,560
ordinances that may

1756
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:35,910
pertain

1757
01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:41,270
» [snorts]

1758
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:45,510
» Um,

1759
01:20:45,520 --> 01:20:48,480
I'm looking at Blowing Rock Ordinance

1760
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:57,590
16-8.

1761
01:20:57,600 --> 01:20:59,199
16-8.6

1762
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:02,080
6.2

1763
01:21:02,080 --> 01:21:04,800
and I've got some extra copies of it if

1764
01:21:04,800 --> 01:21:08,950
um

1765
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:13,350
if any of the parties would

1766
01:21:13,360 --> 01:21:20,950
Mr. uh Hollister, would you like a copy?

1767
01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:22,880
» Mr. Roth rocker, you want a copy?

1768
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:30,470
>> I gave him out. He has a copy.

1769
01:21:30,480 --> 01:21:40,310
Okay. All right. Um,

1770
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:43,360
Mr. Garrett, I'm I'm looking at

1771
01:21:43,360 --> 01:21:45,120
section

1772
01:21:45,120 --> 01:21:47,920
16-8.6.1.

1773
01:21:47,920 --> 01:21:49,600
If the principal activity on property

1774
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:51,600
where a non-conforming situation other

1775
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:59,096
than a non-conforming use exists is

1776
01:21:59,106 --> 01:22:00,800
[snorts]

1777
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:03,600
well

1778
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:15,030
short-term rentals is a use.

1779
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:16,159
I'm sorry.

1780
01:22:16,159 --> 01:22:21,430
Look one one notch down 16-8.6.2

1781
01:22:21,440 --> 01:22:23,280
for purposes of determining whether a

1782
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:24,880
right to continue a non-conforming

1783
01:22:24,880 --> 01:22:27,280
situation is lost pursuant to this

1784
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,920
section. All of the buildings activities

1785
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:31,920
and operations maintained on a lot are

1786
01:22:31,920 --> 01:22:34,719
generally to be considered as a hold.

1787
01:22:34,719 --> 01:22:37,360
For example, the failure to rent one

1788
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:39,280
apartment in a non-conforming apartment

1789
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:43,360
building for 1880 days shall not result

1790
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:44,960
in a loss of the right to rent that

1791
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:47,520
apartment or space thereafter so long as

1792
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,600
the apartment building as a whole is

1793
01:22:49,600 --> 01:22:54,117
continuously maintained.

1794
01:22:54,127 --> 01:22:56,709
» [clears throat]

1795
01:22:56,719 --> 01:23:05,189
» At any rate, let's um

1796
01:23:05,199 --> 01:23:07,280
let's see if Mr. Hollister can shed some

1797
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:09,520
light. Can you come up, Mr. Hollister?

1798
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:34,470
>> Sure.

1799
01:23:34,480 --> 01:23:36,159
Okay. Who who is the owner of the

1800
01:23:36,159 --> 01:23:37,600
property now? Rock

1801
01:23:37,600 --> 01:23:39,600
>> Rock Primals

1802
01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:48,950
LLC.

1803
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,000
» And it's and it's owned by James

1804
01:23:52,000 --> 01:23:52,960
Hollister.

1805
01:23:52,960 --> 01:23:58,390
>> Yes.

1806
01:23:58,400 --> 01:24:02,880
When did Rock Pine Reynolds buy

1807
01:24:02,880 --> 01:24:06,480
uh the property at

1808
01:24:06,480 --> 01:24:07,840
Believe we closed the first week of

1809
01:24:07,840 --> 01:24:11,520
September of 2025.

1810
01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:13,520
>> Let's see. Let me get the address right.

1811
01:24:13,520 --> 01:24:17,440
439 Chestnut Drive, units A, B, C, and D

1812
01:24:17,440 --> 01:24:19,760
in Blowing Rock.

1813
01:24:19,760 --> 01:24:22,639
U Rock Pine Reynolds bought it when? I

1814
01:24:22,639 --> 01:24:24,000
don't know the exact date, but it was

1815
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:25,600
around the first week of September of

1816
01:24:25,600 --> 01:24:27,120
2025.

1817
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:34,070
I forget the exact date.

1818
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:35,679
» When I was trying to figure out who the

1819
01:24:35,679 --> 01:24:37,600
owner was, cuz you you had said you were

1820
01:24:37,600 --> 01:24:42,000
the owner, uh, I check the land records

1821
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:44,080
and I see

1822
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:47,040
that property being sold.

1823
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,480
Um, I see George R. Kalis and Steven G.

1824
01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:52,320
Buchanan selling their property [snorts]

1825
01:24:52,320 --> 01:24:54,719
Rock Pine Reynolds

1826
01:24:54,719 --> 01:24:56,800
on

1827
01:24:56,800 --> 01:25:00,400
August 28th, 2025. Does that sound all

1828
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:00,719
right?

1829
01:25:00,719 --> 01:25:10,709
>> That sounds right. Yes.

1830
01:25:10,719 --> 01:25:12,960
» Bought all of the units. All four units.

1831
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:17,590
>> Yes. Okay.

1832
01:25:17,600 --> 01:25:23,270
Um,

1833
01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:24,480
Miss Garrett, do you have any questions

1834
01:25:24,480 --> 01:25:27,679
for Mr. Hollister?

1835
01:25:27,679 --> 01:25:30,000
>> Um,

1836
01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:32,320
well, Mr. H want to present his evidence

1837
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:34,320
and I can ask questions after that.

1838
01:25:34,320 --> 01:25:36,239
>> No, you we're talking about your

1839
01:25:36,239 --> 01:25:38,719
concern, which I'm not quite clear on

1840
01:25:38,719 --> 01:25:41,040
about these four units.

1841
01:25:41,040 --> 01:25:42,960
>> So,

1842
01:25:42,960 --> 01:25:45,360
I think it's more of a legal point than

1843
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:47,600
anything. Um

1844
01:25:47,600 --> 01:25:49,280
because these units, it's not an

1845
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:51,840
apartment building. Um and because these

1846
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:53,360
units have been separately conveyed and

1847
01:25:53,360 --> 01:25:55,360
owned through the course of there could

1848
01:25:55,360 --> 01:25:56,880
be one that was never short-term rented

1849
01:25:56,880 --> 01:25:58,480
ever. How could that possibly qualify

1850
01:25:58,480 --> 01:26:00,000
for grandfathering? How could you

1851
01:26:00,000 --> 01:26:01,679
possibly say that the entire property

1852
01:26:01,679 --> 01:26:03,600
can be grandfathered?

1853
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:05,120
So, you have to be able to prove each

1854
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:07,440
one was whichever ones he proves can be

1855
01:26:07,440 --> 01:26:16,070
grandfathered grandfathered.

1856
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:18,639
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Hollister.

1857
01:26:18,639 --> 01:26:20,000
>> Does the town have any questions? So,

1858
01:26:20,000 --> 01:26:22,239
Mr. Hollister,

1859
01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:28,070
>> as far as Chelsea's motion,

1860
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:30,639
» do you have a motion? It's not so much

1861
01:26:30,639 --> 01:26:34,000
motion as it is I think it it

1862
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:37,440
if if I guess the only context I know

1863
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:40,239
how to how to [snorts] say this is if

1864
01:26:40,239 --> 01:26:43,280
this were to go to a court for on appeal

1865
01:26:43,280 --> 01:26:44,639
by him or us

1866
01:26:44,639 --> 01:26:45,040
>> right

1867
01:26:45,040 --> 01:26:48,080
>> the question would be was there

1868
01:26:48,080 --> 01:26:50,639
competent material evidence below and if

1869
01:26:50,639 --> 01:26:53,120
there's not evidence of grandfathering

1870
01:26:53,120 --> 01:26:54,719
if you only receive evidence of

1871
01:26:54,719 --> 01:26:57,520
grandfathering on one unit for example

1872
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:58,400
and I don't even know what the evidence

1873
01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,719
is going to

1874
01:27:00,719 --> 01:27:03,440
I would submit you don't have evidence

1875
01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:05,600
to conclude that three other units are

1876
01:27:05,600 --> 01:27:07,920
grandfathered. And I'm just trying to

1877
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:09,440
limit the issues we have to argue about

1878
01:27:09,440 --> 01:27:10,960
on appeal if that were to happen.

1879
01:27:10,960 --> 01:27:11,360
>> Okay.

1880
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:14,320
>> Because that is I I think important.

1881
01:27:14,320 --> 01:27:18,639
These are four distinct legal units. Um,

1882
01:27:18,639 --> 01:27:20,960
so and unlike like a Royal Oak

1883
01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:22,880
situation,

1884
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:25,920
you know, um,

1885
01:27:25,920 --> 01:27:28,159
I I think it's the same. I I also think

1886
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:30,159
unfortunately for all of us, no

1887
01:27:30,159 --> 01:27:32,719
ordinance drafting is a hard thing and

1888
01:27:32,719 --> 01:27:34,320
it's hard to contemplate every possible

1889
01:27:34,320 --> 01:27:36,400
scenario. Now that we're faced with this

1890
01:27:36,400 --> 01:27:37,760
scenario, I think you'd all agree that

1891
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:40,080
that's not well worded

1892
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,000
because obviously you wouldn't say that

1893
01:27:42,000 --> 01:27:44,880
all all buildings on an entire property

1894
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:46,800
if one building was rented means all

1895
01:27:46,800 --> 01:27:47,920
buildings can be rented and

1896
01:27:47,920 --> 01:27:49,280
grandfathered. I'm sure that wasn't

1897
01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:51,920
intended, but that's what it says. And

1898
01:27:51,920 --> 01:27:53,280
I'm just making the point I don't think

1899
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:55,360
that that's what was intended by that

1900
01:27:55,360 --> 01:27:56,800
clause. I don't know that it really

1901
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:58,880
matters until he's presented evidence

1902
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:00,159
because the evidence will control

1903
01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:02,719
whether something had a history of of

1904
01:28:02,719 --> 01:28:04,480
short-term rental or not. and you can

1905
01:28:04,480 --> 01:28:05,920
make that decision later if you decide

1906
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:07,760
to green card or something. I just

1907
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:09,199
wanted to make it clear. I don't think I

1908
01:28:09,199 --> 01:28:11,440
think our position is that's not you

1909
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:12,719
can't treat it. You can't lump it all

1910
01:28:12,719 --> 01:28:14,880
together is our position. You guys don't

1911
01:28:14,880 --> 01:28:17,040
have to position. So I

1912
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:20,400
>> I have a question and observation as

1913
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:24,000
well. Uh so looking at that statute, the

1914
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:28,870
word that I hone in on is apartment

1915
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:30,320
um as opposed to any other

1916
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:34,159
classification of a residence. Uh but

1917
01:28:34,159 --> 01:28:35,760
the question that I have for Miss

1918
01:28:35,760 --> 01:28:37,840
Garrett is are you suggesting that we

1919
01:28:37,840 --> 01:28:42,239
bifurcate this into four separate

1920
01:28:42,239 --> 01:28:44,719
hearings?

1921
01:28:44,719 --> 01:28:47,920
>> No, I don't mind for for Mr. I don't

1922
01:28:47,920 --> 01:28:50,080
want unless Mr. officer wants to do

1923
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:51,360
something different. I don't want him to

1924
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:52,719
feel like he's got to present anything

1925
01:28:52,719 --> 01:28:54,239
differently,

1926
01:28:54,239 --> 01:28:56,080
but I don't want to bring I didn't want

1927
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:57,440
to wait to bring this up at the end of

1928
01:28:57,440 --> 01:28:59,440
all the evidence. I felt like it was

1929
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:02,000
only fair to say we don't think and

1930
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:05,920
we'll be arguing that you have to show

1931
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:09,040
short-term rental use on each unit, not

1932
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,080
just one unit at some point to qualify.

1933
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:13,920
Um, and I don't I don't think it's fair

1934
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:15,600
in that at the end.

1935
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:19,040
>> Okay. Well, thank you. All right, Mr.

1936
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:20,880
Hollis, you can just sit back down.

1937
01:29:20,880 --> 01:29:22,546
Thank you. We're going to lead off

1938
01:29:22,546 --> 01:29:24,400
[clears throat] with the town and

1939
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,840
they're going to make their presentation

1940
01:29:27,840 --> 01:29:31,440
and then we'll uh

1941
01:29:31,440 --> 01:29:32,719
move on [clears throat] to Mr. Hollister

1942
01:29:32,719 --> 01:29:35,760
and then to the uh three interveners.

1943
01:29:35,760 --> 01:29:36,719
All right. Ready?

1944
01:29:36,719 --> 01:29:37,360
>> Sure.

1945
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:41,510
>> Okay.

1946
01:29:41,520 --> 01:29:44,320
I want to read this into the record and

1947
01:29:44,320 --> 01:29:47,520
the attachments and exhibits are

1948
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:49,360
included as part of that and referenced

1949
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:50,719
in the staff report and I'll just read

1950
01:29:50,719 --> 01:29:53,280
it into the record

1951
01:29:53,280 --> 01:29:55,760
>> and then answer questions after.

1952
01:29:55,760 --> 01:29:57,840
>> All right. Let me let me let me say one

1953
01:29:57,840 --> 01:30:01,760
thing. The uh the staff report is not

1954
01:30:01,760 --> 01:30:03,840
evidence. it it's sent out to get us up

1955
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:05,760
to speed on the case so that we can get

1956
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,639
familiar with it um and not be hearing

1957
01:30:08,639 --> 01:30:10,239
about what kind of case it is for the

1958
01:30:10,239 --> 01:30:13,120
first time tonight. It's not evidence

1959
01:30:13,120 --> 01:30:15,280
and if somebody wants some part of the

1960
01:30:15,280 --> 01:30:16,960
staff report to be evidence that we

1961
01:30:16,960 --> 01:30:18,800
consider in our decision they need to

1962
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:23,040
say I want this to be in evidence.

1963
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:24,639
Um [clears throat]

1964
01:30:24,639 --> 01:30:27,679
all right, Mr. Mrock

1965
01:30:27,679 --> 01:30:30,719
I'm sorry I interrupted you. Go ahead.

1966
01:30:30,719 --> 01:30:33,520
Rockpine Reynolds LLC has appi appealed

1967
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:35,520
a final administrative decision which is

1968
01:30:35,520 --> 01:30:38,239
included as exhibit A sent to Chad

1969
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:40,400
Hollister as a registered agent of

1970
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:43,520
Rockpine Rentals LLC on November 13th,

1971
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:45,360
2025.

1972
01:30:45,360 --> 01:30:46,960
The administrative decision dated

1973
01:30:46,960 --> 01:30:50,320
November 13, 2025 denied Rockpine

1974
01:30:50,320 --> 01:30:52,639
Rentals LLC's request to allow

1975
01:30:52,639 --> 01:30:55,360
short-term rental at his property at 439

1976
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,679
Chestnut Drive in Blowing Rock. The

1977
01:30:57,679 --> 01:31:00,320
subject property is zoned R6M multif

1978
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:04,070
family

1979
01:31:04,080 --> 01:31:05,840
where short-term rental is not

1980
01:31:05,840 --> 01:31:08,080
permitted. The property is further

1981
01:31:08,080 --> 01:31:15,510
identified by Waga pin 28079651920000.

1982
01:31:15,520 --> 01:31:17,840
Mr. Hollister presented information to

1983
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:20,800
the town after Rockpine Reynolds LLC

1984
01:31:20,800 --> 01:31:23,760
purchased the condominium building at

1985
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:26,639
439 Chestnut Drive, units A through D

1986
01:31:26,639 --> 01:31:29,360
from Greg Buchanan and George Collus in

1987
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:31,520
August 2025.

1988
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,280
The information and request from Mr.

1989
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:35,920
Hollister claimed through an affidavit

1990
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:38,159
that Mr. Collis rented units on a

1991
01:31:38,159 --> 01:31:40,719
short-term rental basis less than 28

1992
01:31:40,719 --> 01:31:43,760
days prior to 2019.

1993
01:31:43,760 --> 01:31:45,360
Once the town modified the zoning

1994
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,760
ordinance in August of 2019, consistent

1995
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:49,440
with the North Carolina Court of Appeals

1996
01:31:49,440 --> 01:31:52,000
decision related to short-term rentals,

1997
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:54,639
Mr. Collus claimed the town informed him

1998
01:31:54,639 --> 01:31:56,159
he could not continue with short-term

1999
01:31:56,159 --> 01:31:58,480
rentals.

2000
01:31:58,480 --> 01:32:00,719
Planning staff is not aware of Mr.

2001
01:32:00,719 --> 01:32:02,560
Collus ever renting units on a

2002
01:32:02,560 --> 01:32:04,960
short-term basis, and we have been

2003
01:32:04,960 --> 01:32:07,199
provided no evidence that indicates Mr.

2004
01:32:07,199 --> 01:32:09,679
Collins did. To our knowledge, it does

2005
01:32:09,679 --> 01:32:11,440
not appear that short-term rentals ever

2006
01:32:11,440 --> 01:32:14,320
happen at 439 Chestnut Drive, and no

2007
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,159
occupancy tax receipts are available

2008
01:32:16,159 --> 01:32:17,760
that would indicate compliance with the

2009
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:20,159
town's occupancy tax laws for any

2010
01:32:20,159 --> 01:32:23,280
rentals less than 28 days. Further,

2011
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:24,960
planning staff is not aware of ever

2012
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:27,280
having a conversation with Mr. Collus,

2013
01:32:27,280 --> 01:32:28,880
informing him that short-term rentals

2014
01:32:28,880 --> 01:32:31,520
were no longer permitted at his

2015
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:33,600
property.

2016
01:32:33,600 --> 01:32:35,440
Even if Mr. Collus had rented short

2017
01:32:35,440 --> 01:32:37,600
terms had short-term rentals on the

2018
01:32:37,600 --> 01:32:40,560
subject property prior to 2019

2019
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:42,239
which the planning staff contends that

2020
01:32:42,239 --> 01:32:44,719
the applicant has failed to prove. The

2021
01:32:44,719 --> 01:32:46,719
applicant produced evidence that runs

2022
01:32:46,719 --> 01:32:49,360
counter to its request confirming that

2023
01:32:49,360 --> 01:32:51,040
no short-term rental activity has

2024
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:52,800
occurred on the subject property since

2025
01:32:52,800 --> 01:32:54,560
2019.

2026
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:58,639
Pursuant to section 16-8.6

2027
01:32:58,639 --> 01:33:01,360
six of the town's land use code. Any

2028
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:02,800
non-conforming use that has been

2029
01:33:02,800 --> 01:33:04,719
continued for a consecutive period of

2030
01:33:04,719 --> 01:33:07,440
180 days is deemed abandoned and cannot

2031
01:33:07,440 --> 01:33:09,199
be reestablished.

2032
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:11,280
Here, the alleged non-conforming use has

2033
01:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,520
been discontinued for a consecutive

2034
01:33:13,520 --> 01:33:16,239
period of at least 180 days starting in

2035
01:33:16,239 --> 01:33:22,159
2019 at the latest, thus abandoning the alleged non-conforming

2036
01:33:22,159 --> 01:33:24,400
use of the subject property.

2037
01:33:24,400 --> 01:33:26,000
Accordingly, in response to the

2038
01:33:26,000 --> 01:33:27,679
applicant's request for allowance of

2039
01:33:27,679 --> 01:33:30,400
short-term rentals at 439 Chestnut

2040
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:32,719
Drive, staff denied this request based

2041
01:33:32,719 --> 01:33:35,040
on there being no evidence of prior and

2042
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,880
continued short-term use in an R6M

2043
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:40,480
multifamilies zoning district where

2044
01:33:40,480 --> 01:33:41,760
short-term [clears throat] rental is not

2045
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:48,149
permitted.

2046
01:33:48,159 --> 01:33:50,239
Public notice for this appeal was mailed

2047
01:33:50,239 --> 01:33:53,520
on January 19th, 2026 to the property

2048
01:33:53,520 --> 01:33:55,040
owner and adjacent property owners

2049
01:33:55,040 --> 01:33:57,760
within 150 ft. That's exhibit B that's

2050
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:01,600
in your packet. Has a map and uh and the

2051
01:34:01,600 --> 01:34:04,080
list of addresses

2052
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:07,199
that were included on that map. property

2053
01:34:07,199 --> 01:34:10,800
was posted on January 9th, 2026 and a

2054
01:34:10,800 --> 01:34:14,080
public notice uh appeared in the Waga

2055
01:34:14,080 --> 01:34:18,159
Democrat on the on January 14th and 21st

2056
01:34:18,159 --> 01:34:20,159
of this year.

2057
01:34:20,159 --> 01:34:21,840
Any attachments that have been provided

2058
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:23,440
to you, there's a letter of decision

2059
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:26,800
dated November 13th, 2025. Appeal

2060
01:34:26,800 --> 01:34:30,400
application dated November 20th, 2025.

2061
01:34:30,400 --> 01:34:33,040
Uh Mr. Hollister had provided supporting

2062
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:35,360
documents of his appeal and those have

2063
01:34:35,360 --> 01:34:39,280
been included as exhibit C.

2064
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:41,840
Exhibit D is public notice and mailing L

2065
01:34:41,840 --> 01:34:46,080
list and the map. Exhibit E

2066
01:34:46,080 --> 01:34:50,159
aerial map of the subject property here.

2067
01:34:50,159 --> 01:34:52,400
Um subject property is red there as you

2068
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:56,400
look on the screen. uh zoning map of the

2069
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,639
subject property and then we also

2070
01:34:58,639 --> 01:35:00,320
included

2071
01:35:00,320 --> 01:35:02,880
uh ordinance sections uh that pertain to

2072
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:06,719
short-term rental and uh I believe part

2073
01:35:06,719 --> 01:35:08,480
of the use table that shows where you

2074
01:35:08,480 --> 01:35:10,880
short-term rentals are allowed and where

2075
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,679
they're not.

2076
01:35:13,679 --> 01:35:17,430
Okay. Um

2077
01:35:17,440 --> 01:35:19,360
couple pictures. This shows the property

2078
01:35:19,360 --> 01:35:21,920
in 2021.

2079
01:35:21,920 --> 01:35:25,110
um

2080
01:35:25,120 --> 01:35:30,070
from the street again in 2024.

2081
01:35:30,080 --> 01:35:32,320
Uh an aerial of the property and we've

2082
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:33,679
been looking at that most of the night,

2083
01:35:33,679 --> 01:35:37,440
but we can see uh

2084
01:35:37,440 --> 01:35:41,199
the property located here.

2085
01:35:41,199 --> 01:35:45,910
Pine Village where some of the

2086
01:35:45,920 --> 01:35:48,639
neighbors that have spoken is right

2087
01:35:48,639 --> 01:35:50,400
here.

2088
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:52,800
And

2089
01:35:52,800 --> 01:35:54,080
Everything else on there is

2090
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:56,159
self-explanatory, I believe.

2091
01:35:56,159 --> 01:35:58,080
>> Uh then we have some code sections that

2092
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:00,239
I've placed in front of you tonight

2093
01:36:00,239 --> 01:36:02,400
dealing with nonconformities

2094
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:07,840
and uh abandonment of non-conforming

2095
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:13,430
uses and situations.

2096
01:36:13,440 --> 01:36:15,199
That's all I have. I'd be glad to answer

2097
01:36:15,199 --> 01:36:18,159
questions. Do you want to put any

2098
01:36:18,159 --> 01:36:20,880
anything in the uh staff report? Do you

2099
01:36:20,880 --> 01:36:23,040
want to put any of those pieces of paper

2100
01:36:23,040 --> 01:36:24,000
into evidence?

2101
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:25,040
>> All of it.

2102
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:26,560
Yes, sir.

2103
01:36:26,560 --> 01:36:30,000
>> You would object to that.

2104
01:36:30,000 --> 01:36:33,040
>> Okay. On what grounds?

2105
01:36:33,040 --> 01:36:36,239
>> On the groundification for the affidavit

2106
01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:39,120
to come in based on the rules um

2107
01:36:39,120 --> 01:36:42,560
procedure that witness the stand is

2108
01:36:42,560 --> 01:36:48,000
local and in town. not available.

2109
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:49,760
>> You're saying it's hearsay.

2110
01:36:49,760 --> 01:36:51,600
>> It's Yeah, the objection is hearsay

2111
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:53,199
basic and and that it should not be

2112
01:36:53,199 --> 01:36:55,360
admissible. There's not a reason for

2113
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:57,679
that hearsay to be overcome that that

2114
01:36:57,679 --> 01:36:59,280
Afghan is available.

2115
01:36:59,280 --> 01:37:01,600
>> Okay. Mr. Hollister, what do you have to

2116
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:02,800
say about that?

2117
01:37:02,800 --> 01:37:05,600
>> I would say it's more that was

2118
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:08,000
notoriized. I feel it should be

2119
01:37:08,000 --> 01:37:09,679
permitted. Okay.

2120
01:37:09,679 --> 01:37:13,669
>> Mr. Patrick.

2121
01:37:13,679 --> 01:37:15,119
Okay.

2122
01:37:15,119 --> 01:37:18,470
Um

2123
01:37:18,480 --> 01:37:20,560
the affidavit

2124
01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:24,239
unless Mr. uh Collins appears tonight to

2125
01:37:24,239 --> 01:37:26,000
testify

2126
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:29,520
in person or by phone is hearsay and uh

2127
01:37:29,520 --> 01:37:32,400
will not be putting the evidence.

2128
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,830
Um

2129
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,239
anything else you would object to Miss

2130
01:37:38,239 --> 01:37:38,880
Garrett?

2131
01:37:38,880 --> 01:37:40,080
>> No.

2132
01:37:40,080 --> 01:37:42,159
>> And

2133
01:37:42,159 --> 01:37:43,600
Mr.

2134
01:37:43,600 --> 01:37:45,840
Patrick, you're the one that wants the

2135
01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:48,320
whole package in. So, I'm assuming you

2136
01:37:48,320 --> 01:37:50,639
agree with Mr. Rothrock. [clears throat]

2137
01:37:50,639 --> 01:37:52,480
The whole package with the exception of

2138
01:37:52,480 --> 01:37:55,199
the affidavit comes in. Or do you want

2139
01:37:55,199 --> 01:37:58,960
exclude anything else?

2140
01:37:58,960 --> 01:38:01,119
>> There's nothing else in the packet

2141
01:38:01,119 --> 01:38:02,639
beyond the affidavit that needs to be

2142
01:38:02,639 --> 01:38:06,470
excluded.

2143
01:38:06,480 --> 01:38:09,040
» So, Mr. Hollister, do you feel like

2144
01:38:09,040 --> 01:38:12,239
there's anything in the staff report

2145
01:38:12,239 --> 01:38:14,239
uh that should not be coming in come

2146
01:38:14,239 --> 01:38:15,679
into evidence and be part of our

2147
01:38:15,679 --> 01:38:17,360
deliberations?

2148
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:19,840
>> Uh some of the statements made about

2149
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:21,840
seems like they're hearsay that they

2150
01:38:21,840 --> 01:38:24,639
don't recall talking to Mr. Cus about

2151
01:38:24,639 --> 01:38:25,920
anything things [clears throat] like

2152
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:27,600
that.

2153
01:38:27,600 --> 01:38:29,600
>> Well, that was that was Mr. Rothrock

2154
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:29,920
talking.

2155
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:31,280
>> That was a staff report though, right?

2156
01:38:31,280 --> 01:38:32,719
Wasn't you reading the staff report?

2157
01:38:32,719 --> 01:38:33,360
>> Yes.

2158
01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:34,560
>> Okay.

2159
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,320
>> That's me. That's not what you're

2160
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:37,920
saying. That's me stating it,

2161
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:39,280
>> right?

2162
01:38:39,280 --> 01:38:42,159
>> And I'll I'll speak to that if you if

2163
01:38:42,159 --> 01:38:42,960
you ask me.

2164
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:45,440
>> But if the other town employees are not

2165
01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:48,400
here to I can't submit an affidavit, I

2166
01:38:48,400 --> 01:38:51,600
don't know other town employees

2167
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:53,440
word of saying that they did not talk to

2168
01:38:53,440 --> 01:38:54,320
Mr.

2169
01:38:54,320 --> 01:38:58,719
>> Well, hearay hearsay involves actual

2170
01:38:58,719 --> 01:39:00,320
words.

2171
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:02,719
If um

2172
01:39:02,719 --> 01:39:05,520
I don't see actual words here, he's he's

2173
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:08,778
talking in general terms, but

2174
01:39:08,778 --> 01:39:10,000
[clears throat] he's not saying what

2175
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:11,520
they said what they told him.

2176
01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:11,840
>> Okay.

2177
01:39:11,840 --> 01:39:13,920
>> So, it does hearay deals with the actual

2178
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:17,360
words or or written words.

2179
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,679
>> Um

2180
01:39:19,679 --> 01:39:21,840
anything else, Miss Garrett?

2181
01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:22,639
>> No. Thank you.

2182
01:39:22,639 --> 01:39:24,639
>> Okay. So, in the staff report,

2183
01:39:24,639 --> 01:39:27,199
everything but the affidavit comes into

2184
01:39:27,199 --> 01:39:32,470
evidence. Um,

2185
01:39:32,480 --> 01:39:34,639
» Mr. Chairman, do we need to vote on the

2186
01:39:34,639 --> 01:39:39,679
affidavit? Because I understand it's hearsay. Um, but uh,

2187
01:39:39,679 --> 01:39:42,800
>> we the rules are on objections that the

2188
01:39:42,800 --> 01:39:44,880
chair makes a ruling and [clears throat]

2189
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,520
if anybody objects to that ruling, then

2190
01:39:47,520 --> 01:39:50,960
we take a vote of the whole board.

2191
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:52,000
>> Okay. Thank you.

2192
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:57,590
>> You're welcome. Um,

2193
01:39:57,600 --> 01:39:59,840
» my right understanding the board has the

2194
01:39:59,840 --> 01:40:03,920
ability to determine if they want to

2195
01:40:03,920 --> 01:40:06,560
listen to the affidavit.

2196
01:40:06,560 --> 01:40:08,000
>> Well, we can read the affidavit.

2197
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:08,400
>> Yeah.

2198
01:40:08,400 --> 01:40:09,440
>> And the affidavit's

2199
01:40:09,440 --> 01:40:11,920
>> you can decide what the weight is of it

2200
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:16,960
>> and um well, it's it's hearsay and we're

2201
01:40:16,960 --> 01:40:18,320
not going to let it into evidence

2202
01:40:18,320 --> 01:40:19,440
because it's here.

2203
01:40:19,440 --> 01:40:19,840
>> Okay.

2204
01:40:19,840 --> 01:40:21,440
>> I think what Mr. Hollister is trying to

2205
01:40:21,440 --> 01:40:23,440
do is object. You just you just said

2206
01:40:23,440 --> 01:40:24,560
that

2207
01:40:24,560 --> 01:40:26,719
>> that the chair makes a decision and then

2208
01:40:26,719 --> 01:40:29,679
unless a party objects the chair's

2209
01:40:29,679 --> 01:40:31,840
decision holds otherwise the objection

2210
01:40:31,840 --> 01:40:33,440
allows discussion. Is that what I

2211
01:40:33,440 --> 01:40:34,159
understood?

2212
01:40:34,159 --> 01:40:36,480
>> Yeah, I guess I I thought I objected to

2213
01:40:36,480 --> 01:40:38,400
Yeah, I thought I objected to not

2214
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:40,800
allowing the affidavit earlier.

2215
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:42,320
>> Okay. All right. Do you want a vote of

2216
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:43,760
the board? You're all right. You're

2217
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:50,790
entitled to a vote of the board. Um,

2218
01:40:50,800 --> 01:40:52,320
I don't know that we need to put this in

2219
01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:56,639
the form of a motion. What do you think?

2220
01:40:56,639 --> 01:40:58,480
>> It's it's a matter of voting whether we

2221
01:40:58,480 --> 01:40:59,280
accept the

2222
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:01,600
>> Yeah, I think it's just a straight vote.

2223
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:03,840
Um, all board members,

2224
01:41:03,840 --> 01:41:05,600
>> would it not need to be a motion that's

2225
01:41:05,600 --> 01:41:09,440
then seconded and open for discussion

2226
01:41:09,440 --> 01:41:13,350
>> amongst us? [clears throat]

2227
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:15,040
Well, do you want to Yeah, of course.

2228
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:18,239
We'll discuss if you want to go ahead.

2229
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:20,560
>> I'll move that we do not accept the

2230
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,199
affidavit because as hearsay because

2231
01:41:23,199 --> 01:41:25,840
it's hearsay.

2232
01:41:25,840 --> 01:41:26,719
>> Is there a second?

2233
01:41:26,719 --> 01:41:27,280
>> Second.

2234
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:30,400
>> All right. All right. So,

2235
01:41:30,400 --> 01:41:32,320
um,

2236
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:34,080
what I wanted to discuss now that we

2237
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:37,600
have the motion is, um,

2238
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:40,560
you were quoting the North Carolina,

2239
01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:42,560
what's what's the book called? rules are

2240
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:43,119
cool.

2241
01:41:43,119 --> 01:41:46,320
>> Um you said it's introduction of the

2242
01:41:46,320 --> 01:41:48,880
affidavit is hearsay but it's

2243
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:50,239
discouraged.

2244
01:41:50,239 --> 01:41:50,560
>> Yes.

2245
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:52,159
>> Discretion of the board.

2246
01:41:52,159 --> 01:41:52,960
>> Yes.

2247
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:54,800
>> Um

2248
01:41:54,800 --> 01:41:56,719
so it's not a matter of cannot use it.

2249
01:41:56,719 --> 01:41:59,760
It's a matter of whether we give it any

2250
01:41:59,760 --> 01:42:02,000
weight. Right. [clears throat]

2251
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:03,440
>> Am I understanding this correctly?

2252
01:42:03,440 --> 01:42:05,040
That's what I'm asking.

2253
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:07,040
>> Well, we can't accept hearsay.

2254
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:10,320
>> Well, no. We can accept this affidavit

2255
01:42:10,320 --> 01:42:12,000
and give it the weight that we believe

2256
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:13,920
it deserves. It's discouraged though,

2257
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:15,600
but it's not prevented. [clears throat]

2258
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:19,430
It's not

2259
01:42:19,440 --> 01:42:21,360
» unless I misunderstood what you said

2260
01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:22,000
earlier.

2261
01:42:22,000 --> 01:42:24,800
>> Well, it's it's in the record. It's but

2262
01:42:24,800 --> 01:42:27,679
it's not evidence.

2263
01:42:27,679 --> 01:42:29,520
Um, [clears throat]

2264
01:42:29,520 --> 01:42:33,280
and looking at it, um,

2265
01:42:33,280 --> 01:42:35,040
I would say it's classic hearsay because

2266
01:42:35,040 --> 01:42:38,080
it raises more questions than it answers

2267
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:40,639
it. I look at it and I go, I want to ask

2268
01:42:40,639 --> 01:42:42,960
all these things of this person and I

2269
01:42:42,960 --> 01:42:45,840
can't. Um,

2270
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:47,760
because they're not here to testify to

2271
01:42:47,760 --> 01:42:50,239
it. It just raises so many questions,

2272
01:42:50,239 --> 01:42:52,880
you know, carries so many legal issues.

2273
01:42:52,880 --> 01:42:56,000
It's just it's the classic problems with

2274
01:42:56,000 --> 01:43:01,510
hearsay.

2275
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:04,480
Anything else from any board member?

2276
01:43:04,480 --> 01:43:05,679
Okay. So, um

2277
01:43:05,679 --> 01:43:07,280
>> and I don't I don't know if this bears

2278
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:08,960
on this case, but in the past we've

2279
01:43:08,960 --> 01:43:12,080
never accepted an affidavit.

2280
01:43:12,080 --> 01:43:13,751
>> Correct.

2281
01:43:13,751 --> 01:43:14,320
[clears throat]

2282
01:43:14,320 --> 01:43:16,800
>> Yeah. They be available on the phone.

2283
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:18,480
>> Yeah. People have showed up on the phone

2284
01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:19,040
or

2285
01:43:19,040 --> 01:43:20,080
>> Well, if they're on the phone, they're

2286
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:23,360
not here. we can ask him about.

2287
01:43:23,360 --> 01:43:24,639
>> And again, I don't know if that has any

2288
01:43:24,639 --> 01:43:26,639
weight, but I just or any bearing, but I

2289
01:43:26,639 --> 01:43:28,080
just feel like we've had this

2290
01:43:28,080 --> 01:43:29,600
conversation several times and we've

2291
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,639
always not taken an affidavit.

2292
01:43:32,639 --> 01:43:36,639
>> Years ago, we took affidavits and it was

2293
01:43:36,639 --> 01:43:39,440
such a mess

2294
01:43:39,440 --> 01:43:42,159
um that we passed this rule that we

2295
01:43:42,159 --> 01:43:46,560
didn't say definitively, never ever, but strongly discouraged because

2296
01:43:46,560 --> 01:43:48,159
it it does violate the rules of

2297
01:43:48,159 --> 01:43:49,679
evidence.

2298
01:43:49,679 --> 01:43:51,840
Anything [clears throat]

2299
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,400
further?

2300
01:43:54,400 --> 01:43:56,400
So, we need a vote. I'll let you

2301
01:43:56,400 --> 01:44:00,159
articulate it, Mr. Mr. Walker. If you

2302
01:44:00,159 --> 01:44:03,760
>> I moved that we do not enter the

2303
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:07,040
affidavit into evidence as here because

2304
01:44:07,040 --> 01:44:08,639
it's here.

2305
01:44:08,639 --> 01:44:10,639
>> Okay. And the second was Miss

2306
01:44:10,639 --> 01:44:12,480
>> was Miss Murphy.

2307
01:44:12,480 --> 01:44:14,560
So

2308
01:44:14,560 --> 01:44:18,239
all those uh in favor of upholding

2309
01:44:18,239 --> 01:44:20,320
uh my ruling that it's uh hearsay and

2310
01:44:20,320 --> 01:44:22,400
will not come into evidence say I.

2311
01:44:22,400 --> 01:44:22,800
>> I. [clears throat]

2312
01:44:22,800 --> 01:44:23,600
>> I.

2313
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:27,280
>> It's unanimous. So there there we go.

2314
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:32,159
It's not in evidence. Um

2315
01:44:32,159 --> 01:44:36,000
now everybody gets a chance to question

2316
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:39,840
Mr. Rothrock. Mr. Hollson, did you have

2317
01:44:39,840 --> 01:44:42,320
any questions of Mr. Rothro? No.

2318
01:44:42,320 --> 01:44:44,159
>> Okay. Miss Garrett.

2319
01:44:44,159 --> 01:44:45,040
>> Yeah.

2320
01:44:45,040 --> 01:44:47,360
>> And

2321
01:44:47,360 --> 01:44:49,280
>> any board member have any questions?

2322
01:44:49,280 --> 01:44:51,679
>> How far back do you retain records for

2323
01:44:51,679 --> 01:45:04,790
the payment of occupancy tax?

2324
01:45:04,800 --> 01:45:07,600
the the I don't know how long we keep

2325
01:45:07,600 --> 01:45:09,119
them, [snorts]

2326
01:45:09,119 --> 01:45:11,600
but I think and Joey might be able to

2327
01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:13,920
correct. I I think we have the ability

2328
01:45:13,920 --> 01:45:17,840
to collect them as far as 10 years.

2329
01:45:17,840 --> 01:45:21,520
That may not answer the question, but um

2330
01:45:21,520 --> 01:45:25,920
those started in 200

2331
01:45:25,920 --> 01:45:29,440
five for the town, I think.

2332
01:45:29,440 --> 01:45:32,613
But how far we can go back or

2333
01:45:32,613 --> 01:45:37,119
[clears throat] the records um

2334
01:45:37,119 --> 01:45:40,159
probably a tax question I can't answer.

2335
01:45:40,159 --> 01:45:42,880
>> Is that a state agency collecting those?

2336
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:46,159
>> No, the town collects those and

2337
01:45:46,159 --> 01:45:48,880
distributes that to

2338
01:45:48,880 --> 01:45:51,040
well it goes to the TDA and then the

2339
01:45:51,040 --> 01:45:55,510
town gets a third back.

2340
01:45:55,520 --> 01:45:56,480
» Any [clears throat] other questions to

2341
01:45:56,480 --> 01:45:57,600
Mr. Roth?

2342
01:45:57,600 --> 01:46:00,000
>> Mr. Mr. Chair, I do have one thing that

2343
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:02,000
I think could also be perceived as a

2344
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:07,199
possible objection. Um, he did um

2345
01:46:07,199 --> 01:46:09,280
that Mr. Hollister did object to certain

2346
01:46:09,280 --> 01:46:13,119
portions of the packet, specifically

2347
01:46:13,119 --> 01:46:15,860
conversations that were maybe held

2348
01:46:15,860 --> 01:46:19,679
[snorts] elsewhere. Um,

2349
01:46:19,679 --> 01:46:21,920
I'll leave it up to you whether you want

2350
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:24,800
to provide that with the same treatment

2351
01:46:24,800 --> 01:46:28,159
as the other in discussion and

2352
01:46:28,159 --> 01:46:34,550
determination of that amongst the board.

2353
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:37,840
» I see what you're saying. Um, treat him

2354
01:46:37,840 --> 01:46:42,698
as having objected to my allowing

2355
01:46:42,698 --> 01:46:42,719
>> [clears throat]

2356
01:46:42,719 --> 01:46:45,990
>> um,

2357
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:49,679
Mr. Rothrock's summary in

2358
01:46:49,679 --> 01:46:53,178
>> yeah I mean not the entire summary but u

2359
01:46:53,178 --> 01:46:54,880
[snorts] Mr. Hollister if I'm

2360
01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:55,920
understanding correctly you were

2361
01:46:55,920 --> 01:46:58,880
objecting to certain portions where Mr.

2362
01:46:58,880 --> 01:47:00,400
references

2363
01:47:00,400 --> 01:47:01,199
other

2364
01:47:01,199 --> 01:47:05,440
>> other town employees that don't that

2365
01:47:05,440 --> 01:47:08,080
don't remember anything.

2366
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:12,080
>> Well, I forget exactly exactly. Yeah, he addressed that.

2367
01:47:12,080 --> 01:47:14,480
>> Clarify and maybe it might help what

2368
01:47:14,480 --> 01:47:18,159
he's saying is uh when I use the term

2369
01:47:18,159 --> 01:47:20,159
town staff,

2370
01:47:20,159 --> 01:47:24,550
I am referring to

2371
01:47:24,560 --> 01:47:26,239
myself

2372
01:47:26,239 --> 01:47:28,080
and the only other one that has been

2373
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:30,960
here since

2374
01:47:30,960 --> 01:47:32,480
2019,

2375
01:47:32,480 --> 01:47:34,880
that would be Brian. And Brian's here if

2376
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:39,199
he needs to be sworn. But

2377
01:47:39,199 --> 01:47:41,679
>> well, when it involves me making a

2378
01:47:41,679 --> 01:47:44,480
decision or being having conversations

2379
01:47:44,480 --> 01:47:46,480
with Mr. Collins, I can only answer for

2380
01:47:46,480 --> 01:47:49,520
myself and Brian can answer for himself.

2381
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:51,360
>> Let me go back to Mr. Hollison. Mr.

2382
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,000
Hollison, you've got a copy of the staff

2383
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:56,159
report in front of you.

2384
01:47:56,159 --> 01:47:58,719
>> Read Read the part you object to. I

2385
01:47:58,719 --> 01:48:00,800
assume you don't object to all of it.

2386
01:48:00,800 --> 01:48:01,119
It's

2387
01:48:01,119 --> 01:48:01,840
>> No, I just

2388
01:48:01,840 --> 01:48:04,719
>> What What part do you object to? that

2389
01:48:04,719 --> 01:48:06,320
specific part where he was referring to

2390
01:48:06,320 --> 01:48:09,119
other town employees and their

2391
01:48:09,119 --> 01:48:15,030
recollection of events.

2392
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,119
» Okay. Planning staff is not aware of Mr.

2393
01:48:17,119 --> 01:48:18,880
Collis over renting units. Is that what

2394
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:19,760
you're talking about?

2395
01:48:19,760 --> 01:48:20,480
>> Yes.

2396
01:48:20,480 --> 01:48:21,920
>> Okay.

2397
01:48:21,920 --> 01:48:24,560
Um

2398
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:26,880
he's [snorts] not actually saying what

2399
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:29,119
any words the planning staff said

2400
01:48:29,119 --> 01:48:33,189
though,

2401
01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:36,000
» but the general inclination is that

2402
01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:38,639
there it feels like he's saying that

2403
01:48:38,639 --> 01:48:40,400
because the staff doesn't remember

2404
01:48:40,400 --> 01:48:43,360
anything that it didn't happen. And that

2405
01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:58,550
seems like hearsay to me.

2406
01:48:58,560 --> 01:48:58,719
Can

2407
01:48:58,719 --> 01:49:01,119
>> I get some clarification? Are you I

2408
01:49:01,119 --> 01:49:02,800
understand his general objection to

2409
01:49:02,800 --> 01:49:06,000
anything in the packet that is hearsay.

2410
01:49:06,000 --> 01:49:07,440
>> Right.

2411
01:49:07,440 --> 01:49:09,920
>> Mr. Rock clarified that he says town

2412
01:49:09,920 --> 01:49:11,760
staff is referring to himself and other

2413
01:49:11,760 --> 01:49:13,679
town staff as present tonight.

2414
01:49:13,679 --> 01:49:14,880
>> Yeah.

2415
01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:16,719
So,

2416
01:49:16,719 --> 01:49:18,320
are there other statements whether

2417
01:49:18,320 --> 01:49:20,239
they're general or otherwise that that

2418
01:49:20,239 --> 01:49:22,000
you're worried about? Because I

2419
01:49:22,000 --> 01:49:24,400
understand what he's saying. I Mr.

2420
01:49:24,400 --> 01:49:26,560
Martin and I agree that he referenced

2421
01:49:26,560 --> 01:49:28,159
information

2422
01:49:28,159 --> 01:49:30,320
that came that was derived from someone

2423
01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:32,800
who is not here is hearsay. I don't have

2424
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:35,280
an objection to that. I agree with that.

2425
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:36,639
I just don't know which statements he's

2426
01:49:36,639 --> 01:49:41,510
referring to in the packet though.

2427
01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:43,920
» This is what you read, correct? I think

2428
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:47,440
this what you read this page.

2429
01:49:47,440 --> 01:49:52,560
>> No, I was reading the staff. That's not

2430
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:54,400
this was

2431
01:49:54,400 --> 01:50:19,830
>> yesterday. Got you.

2432
01:50:19,840 --> 01:50:25,920
» Mr. Rothart, you wrote the staff report. So that

2433
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:27,920
paragraph

2434
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:31,280
um you believe is accurate. It's your

2435
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:33,040
own paragraph.

2436
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:34,239
>> Yes.

2437
01:50:34,239 --> 01:50:41,830
>> Um

2438
01:50:41,840 --> 01:50:44,639
» if I'm term planning staff,

2439
01:50:44,639 --> 01:50:46,080
>> yeah, I'm going to Well, that covers

2440
01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:48,320
you. If that's broad and it just needs

2441
01:50:48,320 --> 01:50:50,159
to cover me, it can just cover me.

2442
01:50:50,159 --> 01:50:51,360
>> I'll leave it between you and your

2443
01:50:51,360 --> 01:50:53,280
attorney if you want to bring up Mr.

2444
01:50:53,280 --> 01:50:56,400
Bryant Johnson to plug in the other

2445
01:50:56,400 --> 01:51:03,040
person and make it um definitively not hearsay. I'll leave that up to you

2446
01:51:03,040 --> 01:51:09,286
up for the until that's done. Um,

2447
01:51:09,286 --> 01:51:10,159
[cough and clears throat]

2448
01:51:10,159 --> 01:51:13,119
I'm going to hold a decision um in

2449
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:15,040
obeyance

2450
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:18,480
for the time being on Mr. Hollister's

2451
01:51:18,480 --> 01:51:22,960
objection. Okay. Um,

2452
01:51:22,960 --> 01:51:26,000
so you say you have made all of the

2453
01:51:26,000 --> 01:51:29,280
legally required notices of this hearing

2454
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,440
to private parties in the public.

2455
01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:34,239
>> Yes.

2456
01:51:34,239 --> 01:51:40,800
the property there at um 4 439 Chestnut

2457
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:43,440
Drive, units A through D, Blowing Rock.

2458
01:51:43,440 --> 01:51:45,599
Is that in a short-term overlay

2459
01:51:45,599 --> 01:51:46,719
district?

2460
01:51:46,719 --> 01:52:01,430
>> No.

2461
01:52:01,440 --> 01:52:03,119
Does any other board member have any

2462
01:52:03,119 --> 01:52:05,360
questions? Any further questions, Mr.

2463
01:52:05,360 --> 01:52:08,790
Rothro?

2464
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:12,320
No. I'm just um

2465
01:52:12,320 --> 01:52:15,040
wondering if we had documentation like

2466
01:52:15,040 --> 01:52:19,840
occupancy tax returns, payments for tax

2467
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:23,599
collected sometime in 2019.

2468
01:52:23,599 --> 01:52:26,560
prior to the passing of the uh of the

2469
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:28,400
ordinance

2470
01:52:28,400 --> 01:52:30,960
would that show I mean would that show

2471
01:52:30,960 --> 01:52:33,199
that there had been rental activity but

2472
01:52:33,199 --> 01:52:34,320
we have no such record

2473
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:38,870
>> we don't have any records

2474
01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:41,119
» I sought them out

2475
01:52:41,119 --> 01:52:42,719
with staff members that are responsible

2476
01:52:42,719 --> 01:52:50,070
for that we did not find anything

2477
01:52:50,080 --> 01:52:55,679
and going back to Mr. Hollister that paragraph

2478
01:52:55,679 --> 01:52:59,199
um on the first page of the summary by

2479
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:00,320
Mr. Rothrock.

2480
01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:00,719
>> Yes.

2481
01:53:00,719 --> 01:53:03,199
>> That's your objection. Plan planning

2482
01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:03,679
staff.

2483
01:53:03,679 --> 01:53:05,280
>> The vess of the planning staff.

2484
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:06,400
>> Okay.

2485
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:07,920
>> Going to put it on the record that it's

2486
01:53:07,920 --> 01:53:10,159
him and Ryan.

2487
01:53:10,159 --> 01:53:11,679
>> I don't see any problem.

2488
01:53:11,679 --> 01:53:16,159
>> Well, we're going to leave it up to the town to decide whether Ryan Johnson

2489
01:53:16,159 --> 01:53:17,920
needs to come up and address address

2490
01:53:17,920 --> 01:53:20,320
that section. So, Mr. Rosar, there are

2491
01:53:20,320 --> 01:53:22,239
no more questions for you. Thank you

2492
01:53:22,239 --> 01:53:23,920
very much, sir. Anything else for the

2493
01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:28,550
town?

2494
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:30,400
» No,

2495
01:53:30,400 --> 01:53:34,688
Mr. Chair,

2496
01:53:34,698 --> 01:53:35,199
[clears throat]

2497
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:36,960
>> you're finished with your presentation.

2498
01:53:36,960 --> 01:53:39,440
You don't want to put Ryan Johnson up.

2499
01:53:39,440 --> 01:53:46,070
>> Well, it is staff's presentation.

2500
01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:49,520
So at this point

2501
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:54,400
we don't know what the other person said

2502
01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:56,480
to

2503
01:53:56,480 --> 01:53:59,360
leave Mr. Rothrock to say planning staff

2504
01:53:59,360 --> 01:54:05,510
all planning staff is not aware.

2505
01:54:05,520 --> 01:54:06,793
» So should we make a motion

2506
01:54:06,793 --> 01:54:08,000
[clears throat] to or should we just

2507
01:54:08,000 --> 01:54:10,080
swear them in? That seems like the easy

2508
01:54:10,080 --> 01:54:11,840
answer being a bride and having go up

2509
01:54:11,840 --> 01:54:13,998
here and ask [laughter]

2510
01:54:13,998 --> 01:54:17,030
[clears throat and cough]

2511
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:30,364
you about answer question.

2512
01:54:30,374 --> 01:54:38,790
[clears throat]

2513
01:54:38,800 --> 01:54:40,080
I just have a question or two with

2514
01:54:40,080 --> 01:54:41,199
Brian.

2515
01:54:41,199 --> 01:54:44,080
>> Sure.

2516
01:54:44,080 --> 01:54:47,119
>> Are you aware of

2517
01:54:47,119 --> 01:54:49,920
any conversation that occurred in in

2518
01:54:49,920 --> 01:54:53,840
2019 or thereabout that um that is

2519
01:54:53,840 --> 01:54:56,320
referenced here in the staff report?

2520
01:54:56,320 --> 01:54:59,830
>> No, I'm sorry.

2521
01:54:59,840 --> 01:55:03,920
Um, are you aware of

2522
01:55:03,920 --> 01:55:05,679
any evidence whatsoever that that

2523
01:55:05,679 --> 01:55:07,199
references any conversation that might

2524
01:55:07,199 --> 01:55:09,280
have occurred during that time affecting

2525
01:55:09,280 --> 01:55:10,400
this property?

2526
01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:19,750
>> I'm sorry.

2527
01:55:19,760 --> 01:55:21,280
» And for the record, my employment

2528
01:55:21,280 --> 01:55:32,149
started [clears throat] 2021.

2529
01:55:32,159 --> 01:55:35,040
Are you aware of any

2530
01:55:35,040 --> 01:55:36,639
short-term rental activity that's been

2531
01:55:36,639 --> 01:55:38,560
occurring on that property since your

2532
01:55:38,560 --> 01:55:40,960
hire in 2021?

2533
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:46,950
>> I have not.

2534
01:55:46,960 --> 01:55:50,400
Have you received any um

2535
01:55:50,400 --> 01:55:52,560
evidence or or any information from

2536
01:55:52,560 --> 01:55:53,840
anyone that would suggest that there's

2537
01:55:53,840 --> 01:55:56,239
been rental activity there since the day

2538
01:55:56,239 --> 01:55:58,080
you're prior in 2021?

2539
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:04,030
>> No, sir.

2540
01:56:04,040 --> 01:56:09,430
[snorts]

2541
01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:12,000
» I don't question.

2542
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:15,760
>> Miss Garrett, any questions?

2543
01:56:15,760 --> 01:56:18,080
Um

2544
01:56:18,080 --> 01:56:20,000
I have

2545
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:23,440
one or two. Mr. Johnson,

2546
01:56:23,440 --> 01:56:27,360
um did you ever talk with Mr. Collus at

2547
01:56:27,360 --> 01:56:29,280
any time about short-term rentals?

2548
01:56:29,280 --> 01:56:30,000
>> I have not.

2549
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:33,119
>> Short-term rentals.

2550
01:56:33,119 --> 01:56:36,400
Are you personally aware of Mr. Coll

2551
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:38,159
ever renting units on a short-term

2552
01:56:38,159 --> 01:56:39,199
basis?

2553
01:56:39,199 --> 01:56:42,030
>> I am not aware. No.

2554
01:56:42,030 --> 01:56:43,280
>> [clears throat]

2555
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:45,040
>> I have nothing further. Any board member

2556
01:56:45,040 --> 01:56:48,400
have any questions of

2557
01:56:48,400 --> 01:56:51,119
Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr.

2558
01:56:51,119 --> 01:56:53,821
Patrick. Anything else for the town?

2559
01:56:53,821 --> 01:57:02,470
[clears throat]

2560
01:57:02,480 --> 01:57:04,080
» Yes, sir. Not on. [clears throat]

2561
01:57:04,080 --> 01:57:06,880
>> Okay. Mr. Hollister, it's your turn now

2562
01:57:06,880 --> 01:57:11,040
to make your presentation

2563
01:57:11,040 --> 01:57:13,920
and present your evidence.

2564
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:15,599
If you would start out just by stating

2565
01:57:15,599 --> 01:57:25,589
your name. Uh Chad Hollister. Okay.

2566
01:57:25,599 --> 01:57:27,760
» I'm here. I'm Chad Hollister. I

2567
01:57:27,760 --> 01:57:30,320
represent Rock Pine Reynolds. Um as you

2568
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:32,159
heard, my father owns property. I manage

2569
01:57:32,159 --> 01:57:35,840
it for him. Um, I wrote a statement just

2570
01:57:35,840 --> 01:57:38,960
so it would be clear and concise. And so

2571
01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:40,639
to start,

2572
01:57:40,639 --> 01:57:42,320
this appeal concerns the denial of a

2573
01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:44,639
non-confirming short-term rental status

2574
01:57:44,639 --> 01:57:47,040
of for the property at 439 Chestnut

2575
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:49,199
Drive. The material facts are

2576
01:57:49,199 --> 01:57:51,040
straightforward. Prior owners George

2577
01:57:51,040 --> 01:57:53,599
Polus and Greg Pre Greg Buchanan

2578
01:57:53,599 --> 01:57:55,280
operated short-term rentals at this

2579
01:57:55,280 --> 01:57:57,520
property well before the town's 2019

2580
01:57:57,520 --> 01:58:00,239
ordinance changes. The use ceased only

2581
01:58:00,239 --> 01:58:01,679
after they were informed by the town

2582
01:58:01,679 --> 01:58:03,199
that short-term rentals were no longer

2583
01:58:03,199 --> 01:58:05,280
permitted. There were no voluntary

2584
01:58:05,280 --> 01:58:07,440
decisions to stop renting, no intent to

2585
01:58:07,440 --> 01:58:10,000
abandon the use, and no affirmative act

2586
01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:12,239
inconsistent with continuation of that

2587
01:58:12,239 --> 01:58:14,800
use. Under North Carolina, under North

2588
01:58:14,800 --> 01:58:16,480
Carolina law, including the Court of

2589
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:18,080
Appeals decision in the Fraser versus

2590
01:58:18,080 --> 01:58:20,159
Town of Blowing Rock, a lawful

2591
01:58:20,159 --> 01:58:22,560
non-confirming use is not lost absent

2592
01:58:22,560 --> 01:58:25,040
voluntary abandonment. Compliance with

2593
01:58:25,040 --> 01:58:27,440
government direction is not abandonment.

2594
01:58:27,440 --> 01:58:29,760
The affidavit submitted by Mr. Kohas

2595
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:31,760
establishes prior short-term rental use

2596
01:58:31,760 --> 01:58:34,719
and confirms that the cessation occurred

2597
01:58:34,719 --> 01:58:36,560
solely due to the town enforcement, not

2598
01:58:36,560 --> 01:58:38,880
owner intent. For those reasons, I

2599
01:58:38,880 --> 01:58:40,719
respectfully request that the board

2600
01:58:40,719 --> 01:58:42,400
reverse staff's determination and

2601
01:58:42,400 --> 01:58:43,840
recognize the property's lawful

2602
01:58:43,840 --> 01:58:46,480
non-conforming short-term rental use.

2603
01:58:46,480 --> 01:58:49,199
>> Thank you, Mr.

2604
01:58:49,199 --> 01:58:51,679
Real quick. I haven't spoken.

2605
01:58:51,679 --> 01:58:53,760
Note for the record, I'm Brian Martin.

2606
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:55,440
I'm representing each of these

2607
01:58:55,440 --> 01:58:57,920
interveners along with Miss Garrett.

2608
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,639
These interveners would object to uh the

2609
01:59:00,639 --> 01:59:02,880
vast majority of what was said right

2610
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:06,320
there says that it's primarily hearsay.

2611
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:08,800
Any reference to what Mr. Collus said,

2612
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:13,599
any reference to uh statements

2613
01:59:13,599 --> 01:59:17,199
made to or by uh Mr. Collins, I think

2614
01:59:17,199 --> 01:59:19,119
would all fall under that category. Uh,

2615
01:59:19,119 --> 01:59:20,800
and I understand that the board could

2616
01:59:20,800 --> 01:59:23,199
choose to uh ignore that stuff having

2617
01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:24,400
heard it, but I just think we needed to

2618
01:59:24,400 --> 01:59:28,790
preserve that objection for the record.

2619
01:59:28,800 --> 01:59:30,560
» All right, Mr. Patrick, do you have

2620
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:32,000
anything to say about this?

2621
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:33,920
>> Nothing further beyond what Mr. Martin

2622
01:59:33,920 --> 01:59:34,560
said.

2623
01:59:34,560 --> 01:59:37,360
>> Um,

2624
01:59:37,360 --> 01:59:42,000
so Mr. Hollister, it's sort of like your objection about

2625
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:43,520
the the planning staff. they're

2626
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:45,760
objecting to what

2627
01:59:45,760 --> 01:59:48,639
you say happened because they think it's

2628
01:59:48,639 --> 01:59:50,560
based solely on hearsay. Let's see if it

2629
01:59:50,560 --> 01:59:52,880
is. Um,

2630
01:59:52,880 --> 01:59:55,520
do you know of your own knowledge

2631
01:59:55,520 --> 01:59:59,840
whether or not these units were um

2632
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:04,239
short-term rentals prior to August 13th,

2633
02:00:04,239 --> 02:00:06,719
2019? Do you know of your own knowledge?

2634
02:00:06,719 --> 02:00:08,239
>> I do not have firsthand knowledge of

2635
02:00:08,239 --> 02:00:10,320
that.

2636
02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:12,480
Um,

2637
02:00:12,480 --> 02:00:14,080
and I would say nobody in this room has

2638
02:00:14,080 --> 02:00:22,758
firsthand knowledge of that.

2639
02:00:22,768 --> 02:00:27,189
[snorts]

2640
02:00:27,199 --> 02:00:27,920
» Question.

2641
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:29,040
>> Sure. Go ahead.

2642
02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:33,760
>> Do we have any um records on on

2643
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:36,159
occupancy tax or anything from the town

2644
02:00:36,159 --> 02:00:39,440
standpoint to show that it was ever

2645
02:00:39,440 --> 02:00:40,719
uh a short-term rental?

2646
02:00:40,719 --> 02:00:43,910
>> No.

2647
02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:45,440
» So, is it fair [clears throat] to say

2648
02:00:45,440 --> 02:00:48,639
that he has firsthand knowledge,

2649
02:00:48,639 --> 02:00:52,229
Kevin?

2650
02:00:52,239 --> 02:00:55,840
» I didn't find any evidence of receipts

2651
02:00:55,840 --> 02:00:56,480
or

2652
02:00:56,480 --> 02:00:57,760
>> Right.

2653
02:00:57,760 --> 02:01:00,800
>> Did you acknowledgement of rental at

2654
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:07,298
that location through tax receipts?

2655
02:01:07,308 --> 02:01:07,520
» [clears throat]

2656
02:01:07,520 --> 02:01:10,159
>> I ask a question.

2657
02:01:10,159 --> 02:01:12,400
>> Do you have tax receipts going back? Do

2658
02:01:12,400 --> 02:01:13,840
you actually Where's the last tax

2659
02:01:13,840 --> 02:01:16,880
receipt that you can bring up?

2660
02:01:16,880 --> 02:01:19,119
>> I would ask.

2661
02:01:19,119 --> 02:01:21,440
>> I don't know how far back they go or how

2662
02:01:21,440 --> 02:01:24,480
far they're kept.

2663
02:01:24,480 --> 02:01:26,080
>> So, did you not find any because they

2664
02:01:26,080 --> 02:01:27,679
just don't exist? There's no paper

2665
02:01:27,679 --> 02:01:29,119
trail.

2666
02:01:29,119 --> 02:01:31,599
>> Correct. Okay.

2667
02:01:31,599 --> 02:01:32,800
>> So, it's not that they don't exist

2668
02:01:32,800 --> 02:01:34,000
because they're there. [clears throat]

2669
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:44,629
Gotcha.

2670
02:01:44,639 --> 02:01:55,030
So,

2671
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:58,000
» you had something to say about intent

2672
02:01:58,000 --> 02:01:59,599
and abandonment. Can you tell us that

2673
02:01:59,599 --> 02:02:02,400
again? I didn't catch it all.

2674
02:02:02,400 --> 02:02:05,119
uh basically that the pro the previous

2675
02:02:05,119 --> 02:02:07,199
owners never intended to abandon their

2676
02:02:07,199 --> 02:02:09,840
right to short-term rent.

2677
02:02:09,840 --> 02:02:16,790
Okay.

2678
02:02:16,800 --> 02:02:20,669
» Which is based on hearsay.

2679
02:02:20,669 --> 02:02:20,880
[clears throat]

2680
02:02:20,880 --> 02:02:23,280
>> It's based on the affidavit which you're

2681
02:02:23,280 --> 02:02:24,480
considering here.

2682
02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:27,119
>> Okay.

2683
02:02:27,119 --> 02:02:29,599
But I will say it's a

2684
02:02:29,599 --> 02:02:33,199
it was a it's a notorized affidavit. So

2685
02:02:33,199 --> 02:02:36,159
you take it for what you want.

2686
02:02:36,159 --> 02:02:40,800
>> It's it's it's sworn. Of course it our

2687
02:02:40,800 --> 02:02:42,880
evidence, our testimony has to be sworn

2688
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:44,639
and it meets that requirement. It's just

2689
02:02:44,639 --> 02:02:46,480
the fact that he's not here. It's

2690
02:02:46,480 --> 02:02:47,760
>> I understand.

2691
02:02:47,760 --> 02:02:49,119
>> Right.

2692
02:02:49,119 --> 02:02:50,719
>> I do believe in a court of law. It's

2693
02:02:50,719 --> 02:02:54,400
admissible though. So

2694
02:02:54,400 --> 02:02:55,679
>> who says a court of law?

2695
02:02:55,679 --> 02:02:57,199
>> Not I know this isn't a court of law but

2696
02:02:57,199 --> 02:02:58,560
saying it [clears throat]

2697
02:02:58,560 --> 02:03:01,280
if it I mean it is allowed to go into a

2698
02:03:01,280 --> 02:03:05,840
regular court that's evidence I believe.

2699
02:03:05,840 --> 02:03:09,679
>> Well I might disagree with you there.

2700
02:03:09,679 --> 02:03:29,435
Um,

2701
02:03:29,445 --> 02:03:38,470
[clears throat]

2702
02:03:38,480 --> 02:03:39,920
Mr. Mr. Holl, did you have anything else

2703
02:03:39,920 --> 02:03:41,040
to add?

2704
02:03:41,040 --> 02:03:44,560
>> I would say that the 180day rule should

2705
02:03:44,560 --> 02:03:46,560
not apply here because there was no

2706
02:03:46,560 --> 02:03:48,800
intent to abandon. So the only reason

2707
02:03:48,800 --> 02:03:53,840
that the 180 day gap exists was because

2708
02:03:53,840 --> 02:03:57,280
they were told they weren't allowed to

2709
02:03:57,280 --> 02:04:00,800
do it. So it's there was no there was no

2710
02:04:00,800 --> 02:04:03,199
intent to not do it. If they were

2711
02:04:03,199 --> 02:04:05,920
allowed to have kept doing it, that 180

2712
02:04:05,920 --> 02:04:09,440
days would never have lapsed.

2713
02:04:09,440 --> 02:04:13,430
Okay,

2714
02:04:13,440 --> 02:04:15,280
» M. Garrett, any questions?

2715
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:16,400
>> No, [clears throat] we would just renew

2716
02:04:16,400 --> 02:04:18,159
the objection just for purposes of the

2717
02:04:18,159 --> 02:04:19,040
record.

2718
02:04:19,040 --> 02:04:21,520
>> Um,

2719
02:04:21,520 --> 02:04:30,960
well, I sustain the objection. The hearsay of the the affidavit is not in evidence. that document is in

2720
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:34,560
the record that down the road somebody

2721
02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:37,040
some judge wanted to see everything to

2722
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:38,639
do with this case it would be there but

2723
02:04:38,639 --> 02:04:41,360
it's not in evidence

2724
02:04:41,360 --> 02:04:44,159
um Mr. Petri any more questions of Mr.

2725
02:04:44,159 --> 02:04:45,119
Hollister

2726
02:04:45,119 --> 02:04:48,560
>> no board member have any further okay

2727
02:04:48,560 --> 02:04:56,070
thank you Mr. calls.

2728
02:04:56,080 --> 02:05:01,270
» Um, Miss Garrett.

2729
02:05:01,280 --> 02:05:08,341
» She didn't hear you.

2730
02:05:08,351 --> 02:05:09,280
[cough]

2731
02:05:09,280 --> 02:05:13,119
>> Mr. Springs. I think at this time um the

2732
02:05:13,119 --> 02:05:16,400
interveners would move to dismiss based

2733
02:05:16,400 --> 02:05:18,000
on the grounds that there's a lack of

2734
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:21,840
sufficient evidence point basis to meet

2735
02:05:21,840 --> 02:05:23,679
the criteria for this grandfather

2736
02:05:23,679 --> 02:05:28,239
grandfathering status. Um

2737
02:05:28,239 --> 02:05:30,080
the bare bones here would be that

2738
02:05:30,080 --> 02:05:31,440
there's some testimony, there's some

2739
02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:34,800
evidence um that there were short-term

2740
02:05:34,800 --> 02:05:38,639
rentals at any point uh much less of the

2741
02:05:38,639 --> 02:05:41,840
180day gap. But there is no evidence

2742
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:44,000
because of what I think were proper

2743
02:05:44,000 --> 02:05:47,520
decisions by this board as to what's

2744
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:50,560
not. There is simply no evidence before

2745
02:05:50,560 --> 02:05:52,320
this board that there has been

2746
02:05:52,320 --> 02:05:55,040
short-term rentals at any time relevant

2747
02:05:55,040 --> 02:05:56,960
to this matter. So I just don't think

2748
02:05:56,960 --> 02:05:59,040
that the evidence to get to the point of

2749
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:01,040
interveners even putting on evidence

2750
02:06:01,040 --> 02:06:02,639
that I just don't think there's enough

2751
02:06:02,639 --> 02:06:09,270
evidence to survive to that point.

2752
02:06:09,280 --> 02:06:10,400
» Mr. Peter,

2753
02:06:10,400 --> 02:06:13,040
>> nothing.

2754
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:16,870
Um,

2755
02:06:16,880 --> 02:06:18,719
it's well argued, Mr. Martin, but I

2756
02:06:18,719 --> 02:06:22,239
think Mr. Hollister deserves a decision.

2757
02:06:22,239 --> 02:06:25,760
Um, we'll take a short comfort break,

2758
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:29,040
bathroom break, and then uh the board

2759
02:06:29,040 --> 02:06:32,960
will start to do uh factual findings and

2760
02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:35,467
then conclusions of law. So,

2761
02:06:35,467 --> 02:06:38,742
[clears throat] bathroom break.

2762
02:06:38,742 --> 02:06:46,592
[music]

2763
02:06:46,602 --> 02:09:04,629
» [music]

2764
02:09:04,639 --> 02:09:10,039
» Heat. Heat.

2765
02:09:10,049 --> 02:09:30,344
[music]

2766
02:09:30,354 --> 02:10:34,239
» [music]

2767
02:10:34,239 --> 02:10:43,705
>> Heat. Heat.

2768
02:10:43,715 --> 02:11:10,560
[music]

2769
02:11:10,570 --> 02:13:39,189
» [music]

2770
02:13:39,199 --> 02:14:02,172
» Heat. Heat. [music]

2771
02:14:02,182 --> 02:15:11,520
» [music]

2772
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:20,773
>> Heat. Heat.

2773
02:15:20,783 --> 02:15:40,423
[music]

2774
02:15:40,433 --> 02:16:28,960
» [music]

2775
02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:36,099
>> Heat.

2776
02:16:36,109 --> 02:16:40,389
[music]

2777
02:16:40,399 --> 02:16:43,314
Heat.

2778
02:16:43,314 --> 02:16:57,059
[music]

2779
02:16:57,069 --> 02:17:41,990
» [music]

2780
02:17:42,000 --> 02:17:43,920
» No [music] word listing. its findings of

2781
02:17:43,920 --> 02:17:46,080
fact.

2782
02:17:46,080 --> 02:17:49,200
Fellow board members, um, [snorts] stop

2783
02:17:49,200 --> 02:17:53,359
me if I say something incorrectly.

2784
02:17:53,359 --> 02:17:57,200
Um, and I'll begin. The address of the

2785
02:17:57,200 --> 02:17:59,519
property at issue in this case is 439

2786
02:17:59,519 --> 02:18:02,800
Chestnut Drive, units A, B, C, and D,

2787
02:18:02,800 --> 02:18:05,280
Ling Rock, North Carolina. For

2788
02:18:05,280 --> 02:18:07,200
convenience, we shall refer to it

2789
02:18:07,200 --> 02:18:10,319
hereafter as the property. The Waga

2790
02:18:10,319 --> 02:18:12,240
County PIN number for the property is

2791
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:15,660
2807-96-5192-0000.

2792
02:18:15,670 --> 02:18:18,870
[clears throat]

2793
02:18:18,880 --> 02:18:21,359
The appellant

2794
02:18:21,359 --> 02:18:26,070
is Chad Hollister

2795
02:18:26,080 --> 02:18:31,270
representing

2796
02:18:31,280 --> 02:18:34,160
Rock Pine

2797
02:18:34,160 --> 02:18:41,110
Rentals LLC.

2798
02:18:41,120 --> 02:18:43,120
The owner of the property at issue is

2799
02:18:43,120 --> 02:18:48,150
Rock Pine Rentals

2800
02:18:48,160 --> 02:18:52,080
LLC. The owner of Rockpine Reynolds LLC

2801
02:18:52,080 --> 02:19:05,270
is James Hollister

2802
02:19:05,280 --> 02:19:08,000
Rock Pine Reynolds LLC bought the

2803
02:19:08,000 --> 02:19:10,000
property

2804
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:14,950
from

2805
02:19:14,960 --> 02:19:20,549
let's

2806
02:19:20,559 --> 02:19:24,446
I think I'll get I'll get it correct.

2807
02:19:24,446 --> 02:19:25,920
[clears throat] Uh, bought the property

2808
02:19:25,920 --> 02:19:30,996
from George R. Collus

2809
02:19:30,996 --> 02:19:33,110
[clears throat]

2810
02:19:33,120 --> 02:19:36,479
and Stephen

2811
02:19:36,479 --> 02:19:43,030
G. Buchanan,

2812
02:19:43,040 --> 02:19:45,200
Rockpine Reynolds LLC. bought the

2813
02:19:45,200 --> 02:19:48,000
property on August 28th,

2814
02:19:48,000 --> 02:19:52,469
2025.

2815
02:19:52,479 --> 02:19:54,640
The property at issue is in Blowing Rock

2816
02:19:54,640 --> 02:19:58,790
zoning district R-6M.

2817
02:19:58,800 --> 02:20:03,359
The property at issue is not

2818
02:20:03,359 --> 02:20:06,560
in a short-term overlay district.

2819
02:20:06,560 --> 02:20:08,720
All proper and required notices of this

2820
02:20:08,720 --> 02:20:15,670
hearing have been made.

2821
02:20:15,680 --> 02:20:17,840
The appellant contacted the Blowing Rock

2822
02:20:17,840 --> 02:20:19,840
Planning and Inspector's Office on

2823
02:20:19,840 --> 02:20:22,880
October 31st, 2025,

2824
02:20:22,880 --> 02:20:24,399
and he asked the planning director,

2825
02:20:24,399 --> 02:20:26,160
Kevin Rothrock, to confirm that the

2826
02:20:26,160 --> 02:20:29,200
property at 439 Chestnut Drive, units

2827
02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:32,000
ABCD, could be used for the use of

2828
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:35,832
short-term rental.

2829
02:20:35,842 --> 02:20:37,120
» [clears throat]

2830
02:20:37,120 --> 02:20:38,640
>> The planning director informed the

2831
02:20:38,640 --> 02:20:40,720
appellant by letter that the property

2832
02:20:40,720 --> 02:20:42,880
could not be used for the use of

2833
02:20:42,880 --> 02:20:45,040
short-term rentals. The planning

2834
02:20:45,040 --> 02:20:47,760
director finding no evidence that the

2835
02:20:47,760 --> 02:20:49,600
proper has been used for short-term

2836
02:20:49,600 --> 02:20:51,680
rentals since the enactment of the

2837
02:20:51,680 --> 02:20:53,527
Blowing Rock ordinance regulating

2838
02:20:53,527 --> 02:20:55,439
[clears throat] short-term rentals on

2839
02:20:55,439 --> 02:20:58,000
August 13, 2019,

2840
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:01,200
a period of more than 180 consecutive

2841
02:21:01,200 --> 02:21:05,030
days.

2842
02:21:05,040 --> 02:21:08,800
Blowing Rock Code section 16-8.6

2843
02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:10,800
says any non-conforming use such as

2844
02:21:10,800 --> 02:21:12,960
short-term rental that was otherwise

2845
02:21:12,960 --> 02:21:14,720
lawful when the zoning ordinance was

2846
02:21:14,720 --> 02:21:18,319
amended on August 13, 2019 would have

2847
02:21:18,319 --> 02:21:20,640
been allowed to continue provided that

2848
02:21:20,640 --> 02:21:22,160
the non-conforming us is not

2849
02:21:22,160 --> 02:21:24,960
discontinued for a consecutive period of

2850
02:21:24,960 --> 02:21:27,200
180 days.

2851
02:21:27,200 --> 02:21:29,439
The planning director based his denial

2852
02:21:29,439 --> 02:21:31,359
of the palance's request upon blowing

2853
02:21:31,359 --> 02:21:34,560
rock section 16-8.6

2854
02:21:34,560 --> 02:21:36,640
abandonment and discontinuence of

2855
02:21:36,640 --> 02:21:38,960
non-conforming situations when a

2856
02:21:38,960 --> 02:21:41,600
non-conforming use is a discontinued for

2857
02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:45,439
a consecutive period of 180 days or b

2858
02:21:45,439 --> 02:21:47,439
discontinued for any period of time

2859
02:21:47,439 --> 02:21:49,280
without a present intention to reinstate

2860
02:21:49,280 --> 02:21:51,359
the non-conforming use. The property

2861
02:21:51,359 --> 02:21:53,920
involved may thereafter be used only for

2862
02:21:53,920 --> 02:22:09,110
conforming purposes.

2863
02:22:09,120 --> 02:22:11,040
The appellant is appealing a final

2864
02:22:11,040 --> 02:22:13,438
administrative decision.

2865
02:22:13,438 --> 02:22:14,080
[snorts]

2866
02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:16,319
C exhibit A where in the town of Blowing

2867
02:22:16,319 --> 02:22:19,040
Rock's planning director Kevin Rothrock

2868
02:22:19,040 --> 02:22:20,560
notified appellent that appellants

2869
02:22:20,560 --> 02:22:22,160
request to have the use of short-term

2870
02:22:22,160 --> 02:22:25,040
rentals allowed on the property of 439

2871
02:22:25,040 --> 02:22:28,080
Chestnut Drive units A B C and D is

2872
02:22:28,080 --> 02:22:31,520
denied by the PL planning director. The

2873
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:33,520
date of the denial by the planning

2874
02:22:33,520 --> 02:22:37,120
director is November 13, 2025.

2875
02:22:37,120 --> 02:22:39,439
The date of the appeal this appeal by

2876
02:22:39,439 --> 02:22:44,800
appellent is November 20th, 2025.

2877
02:22:44,800 --> 02:22:46,560
The use of short-term rentals became

2878
02:22:46,560 --> 02:22:48,560
non-conforming in Blowing Rock zoning

2879
02:22:48,560 --> 02:22:50,640
district R-6M

2880
02:22:50,640 --> 02:22:53,520
on August 13, 2019. The [clears throat]

2881
02:22:53,520 --> 02:22:56,080
Blowing Rock Land Use Code, hereafter

2882
02:22:56,080 --> 02:22:59,359
referred to as Blowing Rock Code in

2883
02:22:59,359 --> 02:23:01,760
section 16-10.1,

2884
02:23:01,760 --> 02:23:04,160
table of permissible uses at use

2885
02:23:04,160 --> 02:23:06,800
description 1.620 620

2886
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:08,720
does not allow the use of short-term

2887
02:23:08,720 --> 02:23:11,280
rental of a residential dwelling unit in

2888
02:23:11,280 --> 02:23:14,800
zoning district R-6M.

2889
02:23:14,800 --> 02:23:16,080
Short-term rental, which is a

2890
02:23:16,080 --> 02:23:20,389
non-conforming use.

2891
02:23:20,399 --> 02:23:22,000
Short-term rental is defined in the

2892
02:23:22,000 --> 02:23:25,520
Blowing Rock Code section 16-10.12

2893
02:23:25,520 --> 02:23:27,840
as the rental, lease, or offer to make

2894
02:23:27,840 --> 02:23:30,479
available any attached or detached

2895
02:23:30,479 --> 02:23:32,960
residential dwelling unit or portion

2896
02:23:32,960 --> 02:23:35,840
thereof by way of a rental agreement,

2897
02:23:35,840 --> 02:23:38,319
lease, license, or any other means,

2898
02:23:38,319 --> 02:23:40,080
whether oral or written, for

2899
02:23:40,080 --> 02:23:42,479
compensation or consideration for a

2900
02:23:42,479 --> 02:23:44,399
duration that is less than 28

2901
02:23:44,399 --> 02:23:46,479
consecutive days.

2902
02:23:46,479 --> 02:23:48,960
Non-conforming use is defined as a

2903
02:23:48,960 --> 02:23:50,880
non-conforming situation that occurs

2904
02:23:50,880 --> 02:23:53,120
when property is used for a purpose or

2905
02:23:53,120 --> 02:23:55,200
in a manner made unlawful by the use

2906
02:23:55,200 --> 02:23:57,600
regulations applicable to the district

2907
02:23:57,600 --> 02:24:01,120
in which the property is located.

2908
02:24:01,120 --> 02:24:03,280
The blowing rock code ordinance which

2909
02:24:03,280 --> 02:24:06,000
says what is required to be in layman's

2910
02:24:06,000 --> 02:24:10,240
terms grandfathered is section 16-8.1.

2911
02:24:10,240 --> 02:24:13,680
Blowing Rock Code section 16-8.1

2912
02:24:13,680 --> 02:24:15,600
says continuation of non-conforming

2913
02:24:15,600 --> 02:24:18,000
situations and completion of

2914
02:24:18,000 --> 02:24:20,240
non-conforming projects except as

2915
02:24:20,240 --> 02:24:21,819
otherwise specifically provided

2916
02:24:21,819 --> 02:24:23,359
[clears throat] in this chapter.

2917
02:24:23,359 --> 02:24:25,680
Non-conforming situations that were

2918
02:24:25,680 --> 02:24:28,240
otherwise lawful on the effective date

2919
02:24:28,240 --> 02:24:31,040
of this chapter may be continued subject

2920
02:24:31,040 --> 02:24:32,880
to the restrictions and qualifications

2921
02:24:32,880 --> 02:24:37,120
set forth in section 16-8.2 2 and

2922
02:24:37,120 --> 02:24:40,804
16-8.9.

2923
02:24:40,814 --> 02:24:45,670
[clears throat]

2924
02:24:45,680 --> 02:24:48,080
The property here

2925
02:24:48,080 --> 02:24:50,160
has not been used for the non-conforming

2926
02:24:50,160 --> 02:24:51,840
use of short-term rentals since the date

2927
02:24:51,840 --> 02:24:54,960
of enactment August 13, 2019 of the

2928
02:24:54,960 --> 02:24:58,479
Blowing Rock Code zoning ordinance which

2929
02:24:58,479 --> 02:25:01,040
made short-term rentals a non-conforming

2930
02:25:01,040 --> 02:25:06,070
use section 16-10.12.

2931
02:25:06,080 --> 02:25:06,720
» Yes.

2932
02:25:06,720 --> 02:25:07,120
>> Question.

2933
02:25:07,120 --> 02:25:07,520
>> Yeah.

2934
02:25:07,520 --> 02:25:09,040
>> You mentioned

2935
02:25:09,040 --> 02:25:10,640
>> in the last paragraph that you

2936
02:25:10,640 --> 02:25:14,160
mentioned, you said 16-8.9.

2937
02:25:14,160 --> 02:25:16,240
Is that what you said? Yes, it subject

2938
02:25:16,240 --> 02:25:18,319
to the restrictions and qualifications

2939
02:25:18,319 --> 02:25:23,120
set forth in section 16.8.2 and 16-8.9.

2940
02:25:23,120 --> 02:25:30,150
>> There's not 8.9.

2941
02:25:30,160 --> 02:25:33,439
» Here's a three right under that. Is that

2942
02:25:33,439 --> 02:25:42,710
if I've got that right. [clears throat]

2943
02:25:42,720 --> 02:25:44,240
I was trying to understand the context

2944
02:25:44,240 --> 02:25:46,160
of the paragraph

2945
02:25:46,160 --> 02:25:48,000
>> 16-8

2946
02:25:48,000 --> 02:25:50,240
that's

2947
02:25:50,240 --> 02:26:37,990
let me let me find it.

2948
02:26:38,000 --> 02:26:40,880
And also 8.2 two

2949
02:26:40,880 --> 02:26:44,000
is talking about non-conforming laws. So

2950
02:26:44,000 --> 02:26:47,120
maybe it's it's 8.6.

2951
02:26:47,120 --> 02:26:48,160
>> Okay. I'm I'm I'm [clears throat]

2952
02:26:48,160 --> 02:26:50,720
reading

2953
02:26:50,720 --> 02:26:53,439
section 16-8.1.

2954
02:26:53,439 --> 02:26:54,640
>> Yep.

2955
02:26:54,640 --> 02:26:56,000
>> Subject to the restrictions and

2956
02:26:56,000 --> 02:26:57,920
qualifications set forth in section

2957
02:26:57,920 --> 02:27:02,240
16-8.2 and 16-8.9.

2958
02:27:02,240 --> 02:27:02,720
>> Yeah.

2959
02:27:02,720 --> 02:27:05,520
>> You say a 16-8.9 doesn't exist.

2960
02:27:05,520 --> 02:27:07,280
>> That's right. It's probably a typo.

2961
02:27:07,280 --> 02:27:09,840
>> Um

2962
02:27:09,840 --> 02:27:10,479
Well,

2963
02:27:10,479 --> 02:27:12,080
>> I'm looking at it, too. I see it there,

2964
02:27:12,080 --> 02:27:12,560
too.

2965
02:27:12,560 --> 02:27:13,120
>> Okay.

2966
02:27:13,120 --> 02:27:14,960
>> I I don't know what that's referring to.

2967
02:27:14,960 --> 02:27:16,560
>> Well, it's in the it's in the code, but

2968
02:27:16,560 --> 02:27:18,000
we'll leave it in there. If if it

2969
02:27:18,000 --> 02:27:20,399
doesn't exist, then it doesn't have many

2970
02:27:20,399 --> 02:27:21,920
restrictions and qualifications, I

2971
02:27:21,920 --> 02:27:36,346
guess.

2972
02:27:36,356 --> 02:27:40,389
» [clears throat]

2973
02:27:40,399 --> 02:27:42,240
» So, let me go back. The property here

2974
02:27:42,240 --> 02:27:44,240
has not been used for the non-conforming

2975
02:27:44,240 --> 02:27:46,640
use of short-term rentals since the date

2976
02:27:46,640 --> 02:27:49,760
of enactment, August 13, 2019, of the

2977
02:27:49,760 --> 02:27:51,359
Blowing Rock Code zoning ordinance,

2978
02:27:51,359 --> 02:27:52,880
which made short-term rentals a

2979
02:27:52,880 --> 02:27:55,840
non-conforming use.

2980
02:27:55,840 --> 02:28:00,389
Um

2981
02:28:00,399 --> 02:28:04,240
that would be se section 16-10.12

2982
02:28:04,240 --> 02:28:06,800
up until the date of this appeal

2983
02:28:06,800 --> 02:28:11,670
November [clears throat] 20th 2025.

2984
02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:13,600
» Anyone want to add any facts? Any board

2985
02:28:13,600 --> 02:28:15,520
member?

2986
02:28:15,520 --> 02:28:17,600
Okay. All right. I make a motion that we

2987
02:28:17,600 --> 02:28:19,840
accept the factual findings as just

2988
02:28:19,840 --> 02:28:21,520
stated. Is there a second?

2989
02:28:21,520 --> 02:28:23,280
>> Second.

2990
02:28:23,280 --> 02:28:25,359
>> Uh all in favor?

2991
02:28:25,359 --> 02:28:27,439
of accepting the factual findings as

2992
02:28:27,439 --> 02:28:29,920
I've just narrated them. Say I.

2993
02:28:29,920 --> 02:28:38,790
>> I. It's unanimous.

2994
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:41,200
I move that we uh close the evidentiary

2995
02:28:41,200 --> 02:28:43,840
hearing at this time. Is there a second?

2996
02:28:43,840 --> 02:28:44,640
>> Second.

2997
02:28:44,640 --> 02:28:47,680
>> Seconded by Mr. Walker. Uh all those in

2998
02:28:47,680 --> 02:28:49,520
favor of closing the evidentiary hearing

2999
02:28:49,520 --> 02:28:52,640
and moving to conclusions of law say I.

3000
02:28:52,640 --> 02:28:57,910
>> I. It's unanimous.

3001
02:28:57,920 --> 02:29:00,720
The applicable standards

3002
02:29:00,720 --> 02:29:01,760
in [clears throat] order for appellent

3003
02:29:01,760 --> 02:29:03,920
to establish that the property 439

3004
02:29:03,920 --> 02:29:06,160
Chestnut Drive, units A, B, C, D,

3005
02:29:06,160 --> 02:29:07,920
Blowing Rock, North Carolina, should be

3006
02:29:07,920 --> 02:29:09,760
allowed to have the legal non-conforming

3007
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:13,120
use of short-term rentals

3008
02:29:13,120 --> 02:29:14,640
um

3009
02:29:14,640 --> 02:29:19,120
in uh in its Blowing Rock R-6M zoning

3010
02:29:19,120 --> 02:29:21,200
district. The appellant must show by

3011
02:29:21,200 --> 02:29:22,960
substantial material and competent

3012
02:29:22,960 --> 02:29:24,960
evidence that a the property was being

3013
02:29:24,960 --> 02:29:27,280
used for that use prior to the enactment

3014
02:29:27,280 --> 02:29:29,520
of the blowing rock ordinance regulating

3015
02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:31,920
short-term rentals

3016
02:29:31,920 --> 02:29:36,720
um on August 13th, 2019 and the use was

3017
02:29:36,720 --> 02:29:39,280
otherwise lawful. C blowing rock code

3018
02:29:39,280 --> 02:29:42,000
section 16-8.1

3019
02:29:42,000 --> 02:29:44,720
and B the use continued and there was no

3020
02:29:44,720 --> 02:29:47,040
consecutive period of 180 days where

3021
02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:49,439
that non-conforming use has been

3022
02:29:49,439 --> 02:29:51,280
discontinued. See blowing rock code

3023
02:29:51,280 --> 02:29:54,000
section 16-8.6

3024
02:29:54,000 --> 02:29:56,080
or the appellet must show a vested right

3025
02:29:56,080 --> 02:29:57,760
to have short-term rentals has been

3026
02:29:57,760 --> 02:30:00,240
legally established. See blowing rock

3027
02:30:00,240 --> 02:30:05,349
code section 16-10.12.1.

3028
02:30:05,359 --> 02:30:09,359
The conclusions of law. The appellent

3029
02:30:09,359 --> 02:30:11,280
has not pursued a vested right argument

3030
02:30:11,280 --> 02:30:12,880
that the property should be allowed to

3031
02:30:12,880 --> 02:30:14,640
have non-conforming use of short-term

3032
02:30:14,640 --> 02:30:17,359
rentals. Appellant has not produced

3033
02:30:17,359 --> 02:30:18,960
evidence of a vested right. So, the

3034
02:30:18,960 --> 02:30:20,640
board finds no vested right for the

3035
02:30:20,640 --> 02:30:22,479
property to be allowed to non-conforming

3036
02:30:22,479 --> 02:30:27,190
use of short-term rentals.

3037
02:30:27,200 --> 02:30:28,880
Turning now to whether or not appellent

3038
02:30:28,880 --> 02:30:30,560
has produced substantial material or

3039
02:30:30,560 --> 02:30:32,319
confident evidence that the legal and

3040
02:30:32,319 --> 02:30:34,720
conforming use of short-term rentals had

3041
02:30:34,720 --> 02:30:37,120
been taking place at the property prior

3042
02:30:37,120 --> 02:30:38,960
to the enactment of the zoning amendment

3043
02:30:38,960 --> 02:30:42,319
on August 13, 2019, which made

3044
02:30:42,319 --> 02:30:44,240
short-term rentals a non-conforming use

3045
02:30:44,240 --> 02:30:48,479
in zoning district R-6M.

3046
02:30:48,479 --> 02:30:50,800
The appellant has not presented

3047
02:30:50,800 --> 02:30:53,439
substantial material and confident

3048
02:30:53,439 --> 02:30:55,600
evidence that the use of short-term

3049
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:57,920
rentals took place at the property prior

3050
02:30:57,920 --> 02:31:00,560
to the zoning amendment on August 13,

3051
02:31:00,560 --> 02:31:09,224
2019.

3052
02:31:09,234 --> 02:31:21,670
[snorts]

3053
02:31:21,680 --> 02:31:24,469
» [clears throat]

3054
02:31:24,479 --> 02:31:26,240
» The appellant has not produced

3055
02:31:26,240 --> 02:31:27,920
substantial material and competent

3056
02:31:27,920 --> 02:31:29,840
evidence that after the town of Blowing

3057
02:31:29,840 --> 02:31:32,240
Rock began regulating short-term rentals

3058
02:31:32,240 --> 02:31:35,040
on August 13, 2019 under Blowing Rock

3059
02:31:35,040 --> 02:31:38,880
Code section 16-10.12.

3060
02:31:38,880 --> 02:31:40,399
There have been short-term rentals of

3061
02:31:40,399 --> 02:31:42,880
the property since that day and there

3062
02:31:42,880 --> 02:31:45,280
has been no consecutive period of 180

3063
02:31:45,280 --> 02:31:47,920
days where the non-conforming use of

3064
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:49,359
short-term rentals has been

3065
02:31:49,359 --> 02:32:04,150
discontinued.

3066
02:32:04,160 --> 02:32:08,000
Blowing Rock Code section 16-8.6.3 6.3

3067
02:32:08,000 --> 02:32:10,000
provides that when a structure or

3068
02:32:10,000 --> 02:32:12,080
operation made non-conforming by this

3069
02:32:12,080 --> 02:32:17,349
chapter is vacant or discontinued

3070
02:32:17,359 --> 02:32:19,280
at the effective date of this chapter.

3071
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:22,160
The 180day period for purposes of this

3072
02:32:22,160 --> 02:32:24,720
section begin to run at the effect at

3073
02:32:24,720 --> 02:32:27,180
the effective date of this chapter.

3074
02:32:27,180 --> 02:32:33,510
[clears throat]

3075
02:32:33,520 --> 02:32:35,040
The town of Blowing Rock through the

3076
02:32:35,040 --> 02:32:38,479
Blowing Rock planning director

3077
02:32:38,479 --> 02:32:40,080
has

3078
02:32:40,080 --> 02:32:41,920
produced substantial material and

3079
02:32:41,920 --> 02:32:43,840
competent evidence that there has been a

3080
02:32:43,840 --> 02:32:46,080
consecutive period of 180 days when the

3081
02:32:46,080 --> 02:32:48,080
property has not been used for the

3082
02:32:48,080 --> 02:32:49,680
non-conforming use of short-term

3083
02:32:49,680 --> 02:32:51,600
rentals. that use having been

3084
02:32:51,600 --> 02:32:53,439
discontinued and the period of

3085
02:32:53,439 --> 02:32:54,880
discontinuence has been from the

3086
02:32:54,880 --> 02:32:56,479
effective date of the chapter making

3087
02:32:56,479 --> 02:32:58,960
short-term rentals a non-conforming use

3088
02:32:58,960 --> 02:33:01,680
in zoning district R6M

3089
02:33:01,680 --> 02:33:05,439
August 13 2019 up until the date of the

3090
02:33:05,439 --> 02:33:09,040
appellance appeal November 20th 2025 and

3091
02:33:09,040 --> 02:33:11,520
continuing on to the present day the

3092
02:33:11,520 --> 02:33:13,686
evidence includes the appellants

3093
02:33:13,686 --> 02:33:19,670
[clears throat]

3094
02:33:19,680 --> 02:33:23,501
strike

3095
02:33:23,511 --> 02:33:38,469
» [snorts]

3096
02:33:38,479 --> 02:33:42,230
» The board of adjustment

3097
02:33:42,240 --> 02:33:43,920
finds

3098
02:33:43,920 --> 02:33:45,439
that the non-conforming use of

3099
02:33:45,439 --> 02:33:47,359
short-term rentals was discontinued for

3100
02:33:47,359 --> 02:33:50,240
a consecutive period of 180 days and the

3101
02:33:50,240 --> 02:33:52,479
property involved here is ordered of the

3102
02:33:52,479 --> 02:33:54,080
Blowing Rock Board of Adjustment to

3103
02:33:54,080 --> 02:33:56,800
hereafter be used only for conforming

3104
02:33:56,800 --> 02:34:01,750
purposes.

3105
02:34:01,760 --> 02:34:03,600
There has not been sufficient evidence

3106
02:34:03,600 --> 02:34:05,280
from the appellant that the applicable

3107
02:34:05,280 --> 02:34:07,359
standards have been met such that the

3108
02:34:07,359 --> 02:34:09,280
non-conforming use of short-term rentals

3109
02:34:09,280 --> 02:34:11,600
should be grandfathered and allowed as a

3110
02:34:11,600 --> 02:34:13,920
legal non-conforming use at the property

3111
02:34:13,920 --> 02:34:16,800
of 439 Chestnut Drive [clears throat]

3112
02:34:16,800 --> 02:34:20,800
units A, B, C, and D, Blowing Rock,

3113
02:34:20,800 --> 02:34:26,710
North Carolina.

3114
02:34:26,720 --> 02:34:28,720
After consideration of the evidence

3115
02:34:28,720 --> 02:34:30,399
produced at this appeal hearing, the

3116
02:34:30,399 --> 02:34:34,000
Blowing Rock board of adjustment

3117
02:34:34,000 --> 02:34:36,479
finds that the Blowing Rock planning

3118
02:34:36,479 --> 02:34:37,920
director was correct in his

3119
02:34:37,920 --> 02:34:39,600
determination that the non-conforming

3120
02:34:39,600 --> 02:34:42,160
use of short-term rentals is not allowed

3121
02:34:42,160 --> 02:34:46,240
at 439 Chestnut Drive, units A, B, C,

3122
02:34:46,240 --> 02:34:50,240
and D, Boing Rock, North Carolina. The

3123
02:34:50,240 --> 02:34:53,600
appellants appeal is not granted. The

3124
02:34:53,600 --> 02:34:54,800
board of [clears throat] adjustment did

3125
02:34:54,800 --> 02:34:58,800
adopt the above conclusions of law

3126
02:34:58,800 --> 02:35:03,680
and I make a motion that uh we adopt the

3127
02:35:03,680 --> 02:35:05,920
conclusions of law as just stated. Is

3128
02:35:05,920 --> 02:35:07,200
there a second?

3129
02:35:07,200 --> 02:35:07,840
>> Second.

3130
02:35:07,840 --> 02:35:10,240
>> Mr. Brandon second.

3131
02:35:10,240 --> 02:35:12,720
All in favor of adopting the conclusions

3132
02:35:12,720 --> 02:35:14,960
of law as I've just stated them say I.

3133
02:35:14,960 --> 02:35:15,600
>> I.

3134
02:35:15,600 --> 02:35:18,319
It is unanimous.

3135
02:35:18,319 --> 02:35:20,560
So the board of adjustment did adopt the

3136
02:35:20,560 --> 02:35:22,880
above conclusions of law by unanimous

3137
02:35:22,880 --> 02:35:26,160
vote and the board of adjustment

3138
02:35:26,160 --> 02:35:27,840
denies

3139
02:35:27,840 --> 02:35:30,880
the appellent's appeal by unanimous

3140
02:35:30,880 --> 02:35:34,710
vote.

3141
02:35:34,720 --> 02:35:36,479
This decision will be put into writing

3142
02:35:36,479 --> 02:35:38,399
for approval by all the participating

3143
02:35:38,399 --> 02:35:39,840
members of the Blong Rock Board of

3144
02:35:39,840 --> 02:35:42,160
Adjustment. This decision is effective

3145
02:35:42,160 --> 02:35:52,710
upon filing with the clerk.

3146
02:35:52,720 --> 02:36:06,389
Have I forgotten anything?

3147
02:36:06,399 --> 02:36:08,319
» I move that we conclude this meeting of

3148
02:36:08,319 --> 02:36:10,000
the Blowing Rock Board of Adjustment. Is

3149
02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:10,800
there a second?

3150
02:36:10,800 --> 02:36:11,520
>> Second.

3151
02:36:11,520 --> 02:36:13,520
>> Seconded by Miss Murphy. All in favor of

3152
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:16,479
concluding this uh meeting say I.

3153
02:36:16,479 --> 02:36:16,800
>> I.

3154
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:18,800
It's unanimous. And everyone have a

3155
02:36:18,800 --> 02:36:23,160
good evening and be careful of the eyes.