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Good evening, everybody. This is the Brunswick Recreation Commission. It is Wednesday, December 15, 2021. My name is Mike Lyon. I'm the chair of the Commission. And we're going to go around the table and around Zoom with introduction. So I'll say your name, and then you can introduce yourself. Will, you want to go first? We'll walk off Commissioner. Okay, Breon. Breon, abstain, Commissioner. And Eric? Eric Fushe, Commissioner. And Emily?

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I'm a leech met commissioner and Sabrina Deputy Director of Screen of

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Ast first meeting for the deputy director welcome we're excited to have you

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here and Tom Ferrell director of Parks and Recreation okay we're gonna

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I don't know I'm hoping everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from up

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over we missed the November meeting so I take a motion to approve those minutes from

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from Emily, seconded by Will, all those in favor?

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And that's unanimous.

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Could I just say something right there?

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Just for the record, what we did in November

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as opposed to the meeting was to hold

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the community engagement session on the night

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we would have held the rec commission meeting

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and those notes will be in the recreation online

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if people wanna see what was done at that November meeting.

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It'll be included in the Recreation Commission

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in meeting for November.

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So in essence, that public meeting for the public

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took the replace that are normal meeting.

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Correct.

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Okay.

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Super.

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We are going to make an adjustment to the agenda.

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We're going to wait for Sabrina's

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inaugural Recreation Program report first ever

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and we are going to jump to some new business.

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And Dennis, we're going to let you go first.

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parks, division, winter maintenance operations, including public skating rinks, let you go,

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just Dennis Wilson from parks and facilities.

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Let me just open up if I could, Mike.

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We put this on for two reasons.

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One, we felt it's appropriate to give you an update on where we are staffing-wise because

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we're having some real challenges and secondly, Emily had mentioned that she was hearing input

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from the community and wanted us to be able to speak openly tonight's meeting about ice

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rings and you know winter maintenance. So before Dennis gets into the details with respect

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to the various practices let me just inform you that right now as we sit here today we're

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looking at five full-time vacancies in the maintenance department and we've had vacancies there

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since June of this year, not all at the same time, but we're now at the point where we

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have had some preliminary meetings with public works in terms of winter operations, because

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we're involved in things beyond parks, in terms of sidewalks around schools and so on

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so forth. We're prioritizing, obviously, what we're going to be able to get to. So part

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Part of what you're going to hear in Dennis's comments are things like rinks and trails are probably going to fall further down the list because we've got to get all of the school roots open first and the rec center and parking lots for municipal buildings that we're responsible for clearing so we're asking the community to be patient.

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We have been very active on a number of fronts our human resources office has been very involved in trying to promote this and a lot of ways we wouldn't ordinarily do.

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So our own Facebook page is getting messaging pumped out there on a weekly basis about continued openings and encouragement for people to inquire.

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We have had, for example, the skiing skate sale this year.

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We had a permanent set up where our human resources person came.

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Since we have such long lines for people waiting to get into the building,

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had literature there on all of the positions we contacted the colleges locally.

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We've attended, or we're getting ready to attend, Southern Maine, I think,

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University of Southern Maine career fair.

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So we're doing just about anything we can do to try to identify applicants.

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So if people are out there listening to our meeting tonight and you have an interest

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in maintenance, we have several positions that we're currently advertising for.

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We'll go over a little bit of what in your packets I put the materials, the marketing materials

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for the position.

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and those are all online.

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So I'm not gonna walk through it here at the meeting,

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but if you go to our website,

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you can find all the details with respect

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to job descriptions, benefit packages, salary ranges.

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All that information is there at our website.

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And with that, I'll turn it over to Dennis

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to give you the best, I guess, perspective.

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we have at this point on what we anticipate for our abilities given the current contingent

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of staff we have to tackle typical winter maintenance operations.

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So you'd like to go down to see?

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Good evening.

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It's a great time to start talking about this because apparently you were getting three

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to five inches potentially Saturday night into Sunday.

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So here comes winter.

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So the first slide here is the new Kate Ferbys East trail map.

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One of the reasons why we brought this up is because we opened up the two last remaining

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trails that we built last year and they'll be backcountry trails this year.

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They won't be groomed and a little bit more work before we can actually groom these.

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That's the green trail and the purple trail up by the butternut cove.

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Those two are now opened up for the season.

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We have a total of 5.7 miles of trail on the east this year.

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That's including the two new trails.

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My anticipation and hope is to groom about 2.7 miles this year, which is the red trail,

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which is the Gachel Loop.

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And there's the Ferrin Trail also that goes down to the bay.

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Those are the main trails that are multi-use trails that I will try to get groomed hopefully

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within a few days after a certain snowfall with measurable snowfall.

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Right now with the challenges we have, that's the prime objective when we do grooming trails.

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If we have better snow and we have more staff coming later in the winter, my intention

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is to start grooming the trails along the coastal edge of the preserve there.

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So 2.7 is the lowest note, the low miles for grooming and you know as we get more people

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will increase that all this will be on our website too under winter activities and I'll

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have that as all this information will be there but it also will be tell when we're going

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to be doing some grooming trails and stuff when will we done what trails will be groomed

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what ones won't be able to be done and get to so I ask everyone to check that out after

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or snow storms and I ask everyone to have patience

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with us due to our other snow obligations

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around the town with what Tom was saying,

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the sidewalks and whatnot.

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We increased, thanks to public works help out too,

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we actually had some three culverts replaced this year too.

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So some water in between the green trail

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and that gray trail, that area in red,

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we had three culverts replaced.

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So it's some of the water that was over the trails last year

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where you probably saw some plywood

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that has been rectified and now is good to go.

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The one thing I do want to say is one of the culverts due to its size has created a little bit of a great change on the trail.

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So people will notice that when they do any kind of walking, any kind of snow, you know, shuing or skiing this year.

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It's a gradual change.

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We've had positive remarks about it so far for the fall and hopefully for the skiers and stuff will help positive remarks too.

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So here's the trail for the west and includes the trail on the golf course last year.

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We had a loop of 0.95 miles.

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I created, you know, enlarge that to a little over a one mile this year because it seems

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to be kind of the most demand on that side.

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So I increased that trail.

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That's the groomed trail that we're going to try to do this year.

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This one also has, let's see, for West, we have 2.6 miles of groomed trail this year,

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out of a total of 4.2 miles total for all the trails up together.

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So the blue, red, and the white trails are going to be our focal points for grooming,

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when we can.

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Our hopes and anticipations is we will do West grooming first

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and then go to other trails after that,

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because West seems to be the most popular trails for skiing and snow-shoeing walking.

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All the other trails for the most part will stay as backcountry trails just like last year,

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unless we get a significant amount of snow, and of course we get some more people to help as

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you know labor shortage and stuff. Then we'll start thinking about grooming other trails as well.

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put a lift.

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Yes, first.

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Okay.

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Real quick, Dennis.

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Yes.

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Questions so that new parking area on the west, is that that's going to be in use this

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winter?

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Carling is going to stay closed until we get a better frost driving on it right now is way

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too soft.

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Yeah.

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People will sink in.

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It's going to be like a week to week thing to look at that to kind of see how much frost

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is right now.

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We're going to keep it closed as long as we can until the frost hardens that up so we're

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able to have people drive on it.

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I know there's some other talk about, yeah, do you want to?

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We've had some preliminary discussion just to let you know that we're maybe reaching

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back out to the person leasing the golf course from Mira with respect to possibly requesting

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an extension of the lease we had to use the parking lot and we had a discussion about that

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as recently as this week, but we're hesitant to put any vehicles in that lot right now

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that we've newly constructed, because it didn't get paid before winter and it's pretty soft right

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now until we get some frost in the ground.

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So move on to ice rings here. Lichness, this is the

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sign that's going to be posted at Lichness when the ice rink opens up. Facility to open 9 to 10

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in PM, the lights and everything will stay until 10 PM. The thing I ask again is that Lichness

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And all ice rinks will be a challenge this year with the staff shortage.

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And it's probably going to be after the first of the year before we get any of them open.

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And that's even weather-dependent right now.

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We're looking at 50-degree, 40-degree day, you know, during the day.

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So we don't have the weather.

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So hopefully after the first of the year, the weather will help with us.

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We can get some of these ice rinks.

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Listen to this as we the first one that we are working on right now.

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To get open, we're actually doing all the prep work.

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to wait for the conditions to be good enough for us

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to start flooding it and getting the ice in there.

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After that, we're gonna start working on,

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hopefully the mall, depending on again, weather,

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if we get some snow for banking,

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if we can get some good daytime temps

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where we can start working on that one.

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Again, the ice rinks is gonna take us a lot longer

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to get up and running this share, you know,

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weather-depending, but also with the amount of people

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But we have, it'll be a challenge.

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Coffin pond will be the last of the three ice rinks

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that we will try to get open.

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That's, again, that's the hardest one.

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We've managed to get that one open for a few weeks last year.

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But that one's the biggest challenge

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due to drainage, where the water keeps on draining,

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even with ice on top.

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I don't have that one.

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OK, it's a G5 one.

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But that's about it for the operations wise.

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Again, I just ask everyone that's listening home

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and watching that please have patience with us.

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We have to get our obligations done for our sidewalks

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and our parking lots.

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And then we'll move on to grooming and make it these ice.

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So, Zalia.

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Any questions?

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Yeah, just one for Tom, are you going to try

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to publicize this little more broadly

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so that community is warned of what the limitations are?

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Yeah, we're not in a position right now to make an announcement, and one of the reasons that we're holding back is I'm kind of hesitant to do it until we have some measurable snow that we're confident is going to stay.

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But we will put something out on the website in the paper with respect to priority areas.

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areas. What's going to, I can tell you right now, we know we're going to work on the

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listeners' rank in the reason we're going to work on that as the highest priority.

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It's the one that's the easiest to maintain, to sustain ICE on, and it will extend longer

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than any other rank we maintain in the town. So given a shortage of resources, that's

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the one we will work on. It has lights, so we can extend the amount of time open for the

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public to skate. We're going to not open, and I don't know if you mentioned this because

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because I was talking to Pete, we're not going to open coffin ponds.

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We're not even going to attempt to make ice there this year.

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And we will tackle the mall if we get the right conditions for us to be able to do it,

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which would be significant measurable snow to help us bank it up and extend cold temperatures.

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But again, based on the number of people we have,

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that's really what's going to drive that decision at any given time.

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on the other side of the coin in terms of the trails.

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I think we will do a good job of maintaining them will once we get measurable snow.

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The problem's going to be people are going to see us getting to them a day or possibly too later than what we would in a year when we were fully staffed.

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And I know that that's going to create some concerns and some frustration.

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but I guess in one of my suggestions we haven't talked to.

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We can turn around about this, but we probably would reach out to Foxes and have a discussion with them because I know that they are probably one of the most effective everyday information sharing constituency groups when it comes to skiing in the community. As you know, you can look there any day in their posting conditions at a whole variety of locations beyond even the ones we maintain. So we will have that conversation, but I just think it's premature to have it right now.

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You know what I was talking about, just alerting the community to the staffing problems

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just to say, you know, because the first note comes if people don't realize how stressed

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the staffing is, you know, I guess we could do something on our own website will and we'll

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see how it goes.

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If it's really obvious that we're getting a lot of input we might turn to the newspapers

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or something, but I kind of want to gauge that, but I do think our own website is probably

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be the best tool to get information up quickly on what the plan is as we see it today.

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I know you have a question.

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Yeah, I think last year was a good show of the investment that the towns people have,

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especially for the mall rink, like people don't really tell us how much they appreciate things until

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we don't have them. And so I think last year showed because there was a lot of vocal

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talk that that ranked didn't happen.

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And so I'm curious if it's been discussed, and I think it was discussed a little bit last year.

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But forward thinking in this year, it's probably not feasible because it's already December.

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But especially with the mall rank, it has there been discussion in reaching out to like the downtown

224
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association or other businesses or entities within the town to rather than having that be a snowbank

225
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dependent rank because if we're completely dependent on heavy snowpack to have that be a functional

226
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rank, whether it's, and I know there's a discussion of flutter and a lot flud, liner,

227
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you know, we could go on for a long time about how to make an outdoor rank and what's fast and

228
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whatever. But if, if flooding is the thing and you need snow banks to do that, and if say we have

229
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a cold winter but not snow, if that's going to prevent us having a ring down there, doing boards

230
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or something of that sort, through donations, or has there been any sort of discussion with that?

231
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Because it seems like that's a really key kind of piece of the quaintness of the town.

232
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And so I'm wondering if there's other alternative methods for us to look forward

233
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to potentially make the rank work on the mall in future, not dependent on snow.

234
00:17:41,420 --> 00:17:43,760
Because it seemed to be what was the biggest issue last year, correct?

235
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It was a big issue last year, but I will tell you, Emily, we've been doing this for decades,

236
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and our people are very good at what they do.

237
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And we've also been juggling another side of the coin, which is the negative impacts

238
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on the mall, which gets used another 10 months of the year or nine months of the year,

239
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where people expect it to have good quality grass for all of the events it supports.

240
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We would never put a liner on the mall.

241
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liners work well. That is a very large area, not that it can't be done, but what it does

242
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is it deprives the roots of all the grasses there of oxygen. At least if you just

243
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encumber it with snow and ice, it doesn't have the degree of winter kill that it does when

244
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you put a line around that. So if we put a line around it and we had ice on it all winter,

245
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When we went to take it off in the spring, there would be no grass coming back at all.

246
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And we would have to basically close that area for a significant period of time to either

247
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sort it, which we did one year.

248
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I forget now eight or ten years ago to the two and a twelve thousand dollars.

249
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That's how much it cost to sort that rink area, that one year we did it.

250
00:18:59,180 --> 00:19:03,800
We broadcast seated, we've sliced seated, we've done a number of different treatments there

251
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:09,860
other years to make it less expensive to bring the grass back, but I would never suggest

252
00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:11,480
we put a liner on that space.

253
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The other problem with that space, it's direct sunlight all the time.

254
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That's one of the advantages of listeners.

255
00:19:18,140 --> 00:19:24,040
It's kind of down over a side hill and there's a lot of mature trees on that side hill, so

256
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:29,340
it's protected from the sun during the most intense periods of the day when the sun is the strongest

257
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in the winter.

258
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And that's one of the reasons why that's so successful.

259
00:19:34,300 --> 00:19:39,360
I know John's on, John and I talked to the council a couple years ago about this.

260
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John actually made a recommendation.

261
00:19:41,140 --> 00:19:47,300
We weren't going to do a rink on the mall anymore because of the challenges that that presents.

262
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:56,000
The decision by the council was made to do otherwise and given the changing climate

263
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And what we've observed there, you know, 15 to 25 years ago, we consistently had ice there at Christmas.

264
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Pretty much every Christmas you could guarantee you could go skate on that mall and

265
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pretty much skate on it through February vacation when we close it at the conclusion of the vacation.

266
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We haven't seen those conditions where that ring has been open for

267
00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:24,140
Christmas vacation period for well more than 10 years.

268
00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:25,940
I don't know the last time that that occurred.

269
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Last year, I think the reason it was so difficult in terms of the community response is it was mid-January before we had any consistent snow.

270
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And when we didn't have the snow, even if we would have had a liner, we didn't have the temperatures, it was so mild.

271
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That's, so we make some conscious decisions about whether we're going to invest our time

272
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and effort at that location.

273
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,500
The bigger issue is, you know, our mall management plan told us it's the most highly valued

274
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:07,020
public space we have in the community and how we manage it on a year-round basis so that

275
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it's a high quality for all the various user types.

276
00:21:11,620 --> 00:21:12,700
We have some trade-offs.

277
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We have some decisions we have to make.

278
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,080
If the council told us, go put a liner out there, I think that's what it would take.

279
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,420
But it's not an easily solved issue, and we've had a lot of people call us and say, hey,

280
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,080
I've got a liner in my backyard, and I'm skating right now.

281
00:21:28,180 --> 00:21:29,540
How come you don't have this on the mall?

282
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:31,240
It's not the same.

283
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,420
There's all kinds of conditions that are different depending upon the location and the size of that area.

284
00:21:37,820 --> 00:21:42,740
I mean, we could probably put a small rank on there, but I don't think that would fulfill people's expectations

285
00:21:42,740 --> 00:21:47,340
nor their desires for what they want to see at the mall for our speeding surface.

286
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,740
That could be wrong, but that's not the feedback we've traditionally gotten.

287
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:55,280
People like that location because of the size.

288
00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,340
And they can go there and have room if it's, you know, there are a lot of other people there.

289
00:22:00,420 --> 00:22:06,740
And we know listeners is a particularly, it's discourages families from going there

290
00:22:06,740 --> 00:22:10,680
because they're concerned they may encounter a number of, you know,

291
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:17,900
So teens are adults playing hockey, and that's why we have the time frames we have for certain groups to be there and not be there.

292
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,880
I don't know if anybody else wants to comment on this.

293
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:38,260
Yeah, I've heard about, you know, kind of the 15 years that I've been here, I spent probably first half of those with the BDA kind of on mall events.

294
00:22:38,260 --> 00:22:40,880
And then kind of the second half of been on the

295
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,840
Reck commission and the mall just gets so much

296
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,020
pressure, you know, from all corners of the community.

297
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:49,860
So and I think if you were to vote, I think people would

298
00:22:49,860 --> 00:22:52,620
vote to keep it as green as possible for the nine months

299
00:22:52,620 --> 00:22:53,620
that it is green, right?

300
00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:56,100
Even though the rank is so cool when it's there,

301
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,340
we just don't get that many skating days on it anymore.

302
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,280
I wonder, you know, I've often wondered about the upper mall

303
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,000
as an alternative, you know, take the pressure off the lower

304
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,800
mall, which is, you know, we've got to preserve it for those concerts.

305
00:23:09,980 --> 00:23:14,620
It's got to be lush and I think I think it was sorted more recently than, you know, you've

306
00:23:14,620 --> 00:23:15,060
probably done it.

307
00:23:15,060 --> 00:23:15,960
No, a number of times.

308
00:23:16,260 --> 00:23:21,080
We've sorted it in the most recent year, the last few years, but it's been very isolated

309
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,140
and it's been in the high intensity uses of the market, not the skating area.

310
00:23:25,500 --> 00:23:28,780
And then we just went through, you know, the trampling of the other side with the, you know,

311
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:30,940
the farmer's market, which is key downtown as well.

312
00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:33,140
So we've had to, so it just gets so much pressure.

313
00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:37,220
It's hard to, and it's kind of a sacred place,

314
00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:38,800
so we've talked about volunteers,

315
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:40,760
but that's tricky because you don't want to,

316
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:43,580
it's such a high, you know, people could mess it up as well.

317
00:23:45,140 --> 00:23:46,840
I love the thought of skating downtown.

318
00:23:47,060 --> 00:23:49,080
I've always thought, well, what if we just bump it

319
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,700
to the upper mall?

320
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:51,100
And is that an option?

321
00:23:51,540 --> 00:23:53,460
And maybe you're right, maybe we just need,

322
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:54,920
you know, in years like, you know,

323
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,340
in a normal year when you have staffing,

324
00:23:56,340 --> 00:23:58,120
that's probably not so hard to maintain,

325
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,760
but maybe we get ahead, and maybe the staffing issues

326
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,160
are here for the next three years,

327
00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:06,480
and we get ahead of it, and we just kind of mobilize and start looking at another alternative

328
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:07,260
that keeps it downtown.

329
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:14,680
Well, and I'm also saying too, like if with the snow issue that we've had the last

330
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:22,120
couple of years, and not necessarily saying boards and liner, but if it's just to contain,

331
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,240
like if we have the cold weather, and it's that we just can't contain the water, because

332
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,860
we don't have the snow to bank it, even just putting like two by twelves around the outline

333
00:24:30,860 --> 00:24:36,640
line, and whether that's on the upper mall or the lower mall or just kind of alternative thoughts on how to

334
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,320
somehow do that. But obviously, if you already stretch then in staffing, then

335
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:48,240
obviously that's a concern. But I agree, if the lower mall is not

336
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:54,900
appropriate. So let me just share this too, Emily, because I think it's helpful to let you know.

337
00:24:54,900 --> 00:25:01,840
So, if we did the boards, because we've looked at these issues for years and years and years.

338
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:08,820
The boards really don't help us unless there's solid frost of a significant depth in the ground or we lose all the water.

339
00:25:09,460 --> 00:25:17,180
The other thing is that a lot of people don't know, there's some significant storm drains that are right under that area.

340
00:25:17,180 --> 00:25:27,860
So we're fighting that as well, when the water is percolating down it's almost being encouraged because you've got flow right there designed to take that water away.

341
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:42,920
So there's a lot of challenges with that space but Dennis just whispered in my ear that even with the boards we still need significant frost in the ground to hold the water from percolating down through into the storm drain system.

342
00:25:43,660 --> 00:26:00,420
Yeah, I think having made ice for 15 years for my kids, I think the liners more valuable than the boards and the liner with boards is what you kind of need and where do you put that that's not going to kind of my yard doesn't look great where that ring goes.

343
00:26:00,420 --> 00:26:04,040
You know, so it takes a lot of maintenance just to hold that after you pull your wrink

344
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:11,420
out. So it's just those are the those are the trade-offs and the checks and balances. I mean, it's just it's just a lot that goes into it.

345
00:26:12,020 --> 00:26:13,540
And we hear we kind of hear it every year.

346
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:20,280
But, you know, you're right, it's so nostalgic when we do get those skating days and nothing that beats it downtown.

347
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,980
Yeah, it just seems because last year was the first year I think that it hasn't been there and would you say like 47 years or something?

348
00:26:25,980 --> 00:26:33,420
long time. And so it was such a large public outcry that when something goes away then you hear

349
00:26:33,420 --> 00:26:40,060
how valued it is and so the discussions were started again this fall like hey what's going

350
00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:45,040
to happen this year. So I think even just putting it out there that it is the intention of to try

351
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:53,320
to is a positive so that so the people know that it's still something that we're trying to do there

352
00:26:53,320 --> 00:27:01,260
There are these limitations, and obviously we can't control the weather, we can't control nature, we can't control that right now, the staffing piece.

353
00:27:01,940 --> 00:27:08,640
So if all those things fell in line, it sounds like the intention would be to attempt to do it.

354
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:15,580
And I think that that's a positive thing for people to know that it's not the intention to not do it.

355
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,060
It's, that's a secondary unfortunate side effect of the way things are right now.

356
00:27:20,060 --> 00:27:25,280
So I think that gives good that it's valuable for you back to be able to give back to the people if they ask.

357
00:27:25,660 --> 00:27:26,820
Where's the wrink on them all?

358
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,220
Well, it's because we don't have enough staff, we don't have appropriate weather, so we can say these things.

359
00:27:32,220 --> 00:27:32,920
It's not just.

360
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:39,920
I'd like to say one other thing while we're on this topic and we're probably going to talk about a little later on the agenda under another topic.

361
00:27:40,220 --> 00:27:46,320
But I do think we ought to take every opportunity we can to kind of take the temperature of the community and

362
00:27:46,320 --> 00:28:12,600
opportunities like this were on our TV, to kind of float the idea so people can start to give us some feedback about the site next to the rec center, potentially being a location where we could install an outdoor rank that would be a refrigerated rank, which would guarantee us to have scalable ice consistently over several months during the winter.

363
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,940
If we were to do that, my recommendation is we would no longer do a rank downtown on the mall.

364
00:28:19,260 --> 00:28:23,660
If we could have skatable ice consistent for a three month, four month period of time,

365
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,620
that should be where we concentrate our maintenance efforts and keep it open to the public.

366
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,680
And we wouldn't, even in years when we're not successful on the mall,

367
00:28:34,420 --> 00:28:41,200
we invest tremendous hours that you don't necessarily see unless you see how often we're out there,

368
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:58,540
trying to make ice at all hours of the day and night, and sometimes it doesn't result in more than a few days or a week and a half over an entire winter season of skating but we've invested tremendous manpower and hours in trying to make it work.

369
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:09,020
And I think an artificial sheet as part of something that might happen out at the landing would be something the community could depend on and we could have skating from late November through

370
00:29:09,020 --> 00:29:12,920
to, you know, some per period of March consistently every year.

371
00:29:13,140 --> 00:29:16,900
So just something for the community to be aware

372
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:19,500
that's being discussed as part of this March project.

373
00:29:20,180 --> 00:29:22,420
Yeah, I mean, I know with a ring with a liner,

374
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,160
you can have two days of rain and not lose your ice.

375
00:29:25,780 --> 00:29:27,260
That ice is gone on the mall.

376
00:29:27,580 --> 00:29:30,000
If you've got to be skating on a Sunday,

377
00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,940
and by Wednesday, there's no ice, there's no water.

378
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Yeah, we've had ice for three weeks at my house on our,

379
00:29:36,060 --> 00:29:38,600
so. Yeah, yeah, so you can once you have that block,

380
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:47,200
It refrigerates itself and holds, even if you're refrigerating it on those warmer days.

381
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,720
There will be some cold days where you don't have to turn refrigeration on.

382
00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:52,340
It would help.

383
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,340
I know that there's challenges in doing that outdoor refrigerated ice here too.

384
00:29:57,660 --> 00:29:59,980
That's no guarantee, but it's an interesting concept.

385
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:29,980
I think it's definitely, we're going to talk more about it. We've heard a lot of feedback on it, just in public engagement through the mark process. So it's definitely worth looking at. And the last thing I just wanted to bring up about it is the natural size of the ring that we had down town on the mall is roughly 70 feet wide by 300 feet long. Trying to get a liner on that was the huge. And then you want a water that would take the takes to get that is cis tremendous. Well, I think the discussion point on that would be if that was the way that it

386
00:30:29,980 --> 00:30:37,560
It went, it would obviously have to downsize to something manageable, feasible to with that.

387
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:45,240
I had one other question that may be delving into like not a topic for the conversation for this,

388
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:52,600
but it was based on what you were saying as far as the parks and rec responsibilities as far as town,

389
00:30:53,260 --> 00:30:56,580
roads and public, what normally would kind of be seen as public works.

390
00:30:56,580 --> 00:31:03,080
And this may be more of a town council kind of question, or maybe me just becoming more better educated about it, as far as if

391
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:09,660
If the parks and rack is under staff to the point where it is, and all of these other kind of

392
00:31:09,660 --> 00:31:16,200
Town type entity public works type things are in responsibilities of the parks and rack department is that a

393
00:31:16,740 --> 00:31:20,780
imbalanced mismatch there with with those things are you know is the

394
00:31:21,540 --> 00:31:25,960
Is there a way to put those responsibilities back to public works for

395
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,740
or sidewalks and things like that off of parks and rack.

396
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:37,600
I guess the way I would answer that question would be we have been making headway

397
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,840
in terms of increasing staffing in the maintenance end of our operations.

398
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:49,820
So we've added a few positions in the last four years to Dennis's staff in terms of maintenance workers.

399
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:57,000
and that's been in direct response to the additional lands that the Council's

400
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:03,720
voted to take on that have been put under our responsibility trails and so

401
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:10,460
on so forth but I think Emily to your point and I know John's on here he may or

402
00:32:10,460 --> 00:32:16,660
may not want to speak to this but I think when we look at priorities of the

403
00:32:16,660 --> 00:32:25,280
town and within the resources we have available, we try to make the best use of those resources.

404
00:32:26,020 --> 00:32:31,720
And when it comes to storm, we've been doing this for, I don't know how many years, maybe

405
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:39,260
John can remember it better than I, but it's been, I want to say, more than 10, that we've

406
00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:46,460
been, we were assigned the sidewalks around schools because with the towns, complement

407
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:52,780
of public works, employees and equipment, there was a time where school routes and roads

408
00:32:52,780 --> 00:33:00,740
were taking too long to get cleared. And that's when the manager at the time was asked to

409
00:33:00,740 --> 00:33:07,680
address the issue and we essentially had the assignment given to us that you're now going

410
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:13,480
to take on 10 miles of sidewalks, and the public work still has a sidewalk route in addition to what we do.

411
00:33:13,900 --> 00:33:20,140
We just do the one that is in the neighborhood surrounding the schools, but those are our priorities

412
00:33:20,140 --> 00:33:25,420
after a storm because we want to get the kids safely to school. I don't know, John, if you want to make

413
00:33:25,420 --> 00:33:31,740
any comment along those lines saying that you're with us. I would just echo what you said. I mean,

414
00:33:31,740 --> 00:33:37,480
it's a matter of total resources among the town and when that decision was made it was more than 10

415
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:43,400
years ago it was precisely because what you described the public works didn't have adequate staff

416
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:48,860
in order to get schools open and unfortunately what was happening and I don't know fortunately

417
00:33:48,860 --> 00:33:55,820
or unfortunately but you know we'd have some of our parks and rec facilities and parks parking lots

418
00:33:55,820 --> 00:34:04,660
open before school roots were open and that didn't make a lot of sense. So to do this kind

419
00:34:04,660 --> 00:34:10,760
of sharing of resources, you know, as Tom said, we have added some people in parks and

420
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,780
rack. We've added some equipment now that we didn't use to have a public works, but still for,

421
00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:22,900
when we have winter storm, we are just understaffed to be able to meet the expectations that people have.

422
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:24,520
And I'm not saying they're unrealistic.

423
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,220
I mean, certainly around the schools,

424
00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:29,140
expect those to be open a day after the snowfall.

425
00:34:29,500 --> 00:34:30,940
And that wasn't happening before,

426
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,240
and at least it's happening now.

427
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,780
But yeah, I mean, as we acquire property and responsibilities,

428
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,860
we're gonna need more staff and more equipment.

429
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,960
But right now, we kind of depend on each other.

430
00:34:43,220 --> 00:34:44,600
Parks and Rec and public works

431
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,780
to do the most important sidewalks first.

432
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:51,500
So, it's where we're at right now.

433
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,080
So, I mean, most people don't know that that happens.

434
00:34:56,300 --> 00:35:00,620
You know, when you're in a budget time, most people don't know that parks and records build that role.

435
00:35:01,580 --> 00:35:04,340
But they see that the rent that the mall doesn't have ice.

436
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:04,700
Exactly.

437
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,040
They don't know that those guys are out on school sidewalks.

438
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:07,100
Right.

439
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,680
So, it's just, you get to what you can get to, really.

440
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,840
And this year isn't especially due to challenge with the labor shortage.

441
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:15,920
So, it's going to be worse this year.

442
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:27,300
I guess the take home message to Will's point is we'll do the best job we can and I'm kind of looking at Sabrina as kind of an added responsibility.

443
00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:36,720
We will make an every effort to update the website daily on what the conditions, well, the conditions are done pretty regularly.

444
00:35:36,940 --> 00:35:47,700
But when the maintenance practices might take place at the different ranks in trail systems, we haven't been able to give that kind of information on the daily basis.

445
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:53,380
but we'll make it a priority to update that daily and just direct people who have questions

446
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:56,020
to the website and then obviously they can call us.

447
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:02,780
I was going to say but also as a combined effort just to make the community aware of the

448
00:36:02,780 --> 00:36:07,900
labor shortage and it might have a, it might cut both ways in that sort of to publicize

449
00:36:07,900 --> 00:36:14,760
that these jobs are available and what they do and, you know, that's a valid point, that's

450
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:15,140
a good point.

451
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,880
Dennis, I think that's it, thank you.

452
00:36:24,590 --> 00:36:28,950
Next on a new business B is proposed changes to the Recreation Impact Feed Ordnance,

453
00:36:29,010 --> 00:36:34,250
and we are graced by the town manager John Eldridge tonight to take that one on.

454
00:36:35,690 --> 00:36:36,250
You're welcome.

455
00:36:36,490 --> 00:36:37,190
Thank you, Michael.

456
00:36:38,250 --> 00:36:39,470
It's quite an introduction.

457
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:45,750
Just going to, the short version of this is, nothing is substantially changing.

458
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:53,590
what we have now are two ordinances, the zoning ordinance which contains reference to impact fees and

459
00:36:53,590 --> 00:36:59,810
specifically the recreation impact fees. And then we have our municipal code of ordinances which has an

460
00:36:59,810 --> 00:37:05,950
impact fee section which contains every other impact fee other than recreation impact fees.

461
00:37:07,690 --> 00:37:15,650
So what we're trying to do is move all the fees to one ordinance and the appropriate place for that to be is in the

462
00:37:15,650 --> 00:37:21,570
municipal code of ordinances. So our intention is to remove the language from the zoning

463
00:37:21,570 --> 00:37:31,350
ordinance and pretty much duplicate it in the municipal code where it would reside again

464
00:37:31,350 --> 00:37:36,390
with other impact fees. And there's a couple of reasons why there's a consistent place

465
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:42,890
for impact fees and quite frankly the other is is that at some point we need to look comprehensively

466
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:46,930
impact fees to see, you can't

467
00:37:46,930 --> 00:37:49,210
let me impact fee for everything on every want.

468
00:37:49,490 --> 00:37:55,330
So I think it, putting them in one place gives the ability to take a look and say, you know,

469
00:37:55,590 --> 00:37:59,750
as this one appropriate, is that one appropriate on a more comprehensive basis.

470
00:38:00,150 --> 00:38:07,830
And the reason the, the reason the, the wreck impact fee wound up being as extensively outlined as it

471
00:38:07,830 --> 00:38:11,250
is in the zoning ordinance is because it was the only one that was actually

472
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:20,870
reviewed, and I took several years, I remember I told them to come up with how it worked

473
00:38:20,870 --> 00:38:27,110
and how it was going to be levied, I mean, anyway, to make a long story short, the intention

474
00:38:27,110 --> 00:38:32,810
here is just to move impact fees related to the wreck department, the wreck impact fees

475
00:38:32,810 --> 00:38:36,710
from the zoning ordinance into the municipal code with all the other impact fees.

476
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:47,490
So the planning board is involved with it because anything that has to do with zoning requires a planning board recommendation.

477
00:38:48,350 --> 00:38:50,470
That's statutory, made statute.

478
00:38:50,990 --> 00:38:58,190
So to remove that from the zoning ordinance, we have to have a recommendation from the planning board.

479
00:38:58,190 --> 00:39:04,530
We being the town council doesn't mean that the council has to follow the recommendation of the playing board

480
00:39:04,530 --> 00:39:06,930
Just ask the request one for the planning board

481
00:39:08,410 --> 00:39:12,990
No one else is required to to weigh in but we wanted to make sure the people knew

482
00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:19,350
Again, what was happening here and the the intention to move the fees all to one ordinance

483
00:39:22,860 --> 00:39:25,840
Okay, happy to answer any questions any questions?

484
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:31,960
I have one I'd uh

485
00:39:32,860 --> 00:39:40,540
I had a question in a comment and the question refers to, you know, the zoning, the rewrite that went, you know, took place a few years ago.

486
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:49,480
So we went through this, I think that was just the zoning rewrite, right, not the municipal ordinance, but just the zoning, the planning side.

487
00:39:50,420 --> 00:40:02,520
And question, you know, at that point, you know, it wasn't moved in, and is there any reason why it would have made, you know, why does it make more sense to do it now when we had all these consultants telling us we needed the rewrite, the ordinance then.

488
00:40:03,260 --> 00:40:10,440
And then I think we had planning decisions in assisting us on how to rewrite, you know,

489
00:40:10,660 --> 00:40:13,980
the wreck impact fee itself because it was confusing how it was calculated.

490
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:21,260
It kind of put undue pressure on downtown properties where the tax value was, valuations

491
00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:21,720
were higher.

492
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:27,440
So I'm just kind of curious, we'd been through those two processes within the last eight years

493
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:30,480
and, you know, why we didn't, why are we doing it now and we didn't do it then?

494
00:40:33,140 --> 00:40:33,580
Sure.

495
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:35,440
Happy to address that, Mike.

496
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:42,120
The calculation and methodologies is a separate question from where the fee resides.

497
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:48,800
There was no matter where that fee resided, whether it be in the zoning ordinance or the

498
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,220
municipal code, we would have had it gone through that exercise for exactly the reasons that

499
00:40:53,220 --> 00:40:58,400
you stated in terms of the methodology and how it would be levied and handled and all that

500
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:58,860
kind of thing.

501
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:10,260
It wound up in the zoning ordinance because that was the only reference at that time that we had in any ordinance related to impact fees.

502
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:20,340
We had other impact fees that weren't as well articulated in terms of their application.

503
00:41:20,340 --> 00:41:29,600
So I was only probably two years ago, maybe three, that we created a separate impact fee

504
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:37,620
ordinance and put all the other ones except the wreck impact fee into that new ordinance.

505
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,640
Quite frankly, we should have done it at the same time.

506
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:51,260
the issue he was at the time was that the wreck impactful because it was done in the zoning process

507
00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:56,600
and it was the only one that was really done in the zoning process is intertwined in several

508
00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,480
places in the zoning process or in the zoning order. So we wanted to make sure if we were going

509
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:08,460
to remove it that we did it correctly and we just didn't do it at that point in time. We said we

510
00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:13,760
need to go back and again, way to the zoning ordinance itself got in place so we would know which

511
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:20,140
pieces we were going to remove from it to move them. Much the same way that we did with road

512
00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:26,260
standards, road standards used to be in the zoning ordinance as well. They're now in a separate ordinance

513
00:42:26,260 --> 00:42:32,300
in the municipal code and it just takes a little bit of effort when it's intertwined like that to pull

514
00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:37,460
those out. Like say, the other impact fees were never intertwined in the ordinance the way the

515
00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:40,220
But the wreck impact fee appears to be.

516
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:47,840
And there's references in the zoning ordinance that says, go to the muni ordinance to find information on wreck impact fees.

517
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:56,940
So it makes a ton of sense to me to consolidate it so people can go to one place and see what the impacts are.

518
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,320
One suggestion, but I know it's not a town.

519
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:05,580
The other missing pieces and I think it still exists is the sewer impact fee.

520
00:43:05,580 --> 00:43:07,580
and I'm not sure that the town ordinance,

521
00:43:07,580 --> 00:43:08,860
whether it's in the zoning ordinance

522
00:43:08,860 --> 00:43:11,040
or the muni ordinance, it even has to mention it,

523
00:43:11,220 --> 00:43:13,500
because the sewer district has its own entity, right?

524
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,380
Right, yeah, let's just be clear about it.

525
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:18,900
We have no authority over the sewer district ordinance.

526
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,340
There are separate legal entity quasi municipal cooperation.

527
00:43:22,820 --> 00:43:22,960
Yeah.

528
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,800
They've levied their own entrance fees and charges,

529
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,060
and unfortunately we don't have any real say in that.

530
00:43:30,660 --> 00:43:32,260
But you're right, there was a rather,

531
00:43:32,380 --> 00:43:34,820
there was certainly impact development,

532
00:43:34,820 --> 00:43:38,180
and it would be nice to coordinate those.

533
00:43:39,220 --> 00:43:42,060
And I think we'll have that conversation at some point

534
00:43:42,060 --> 00:43:43,840
with the suitors, because again, as I said,

535
00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:46,780
it'd be nice to everybody to have an impact fee

536
00:43:46,780 --> 00:43:50,620
for everything, I think, except that the cumulative effect

537
00:43:50,620 --> 00:43:52,680
of that may not be what the town wants.

538
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,160
Yeah, and I think the planning office does a good job

539
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,220
of letting people know that that also exists,

540
00:43:58,540 --> 00:44:01,640
if someone gets that far with the planning office.

541
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,740
My only other comment was I just noticed

542
00:44:03,740 --> 00:44:13,660
that it looked like there's a lit in the wording that you know there's more it's kind of more

543
00:44:13,660 --> 00:44:23,060
pressure on the executive director with regard to wreck impact fees where in the current version

544
00:44:23,060 --> 00:44:28,980
it's the commission that seems to make decisions and now it's more like the executive director makes

545
00:44:28,980 --> 00:44:32,760
the decisions and in consultation with the

546
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:35,540
recognition and I'm not necessarily

547
00:44:36,340 --> 00:44:38,500
advocating for us to you know it's not a

548
00:44:38,500 --> 00:44:40,360
power play I don't really care that way

549
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,860
but I just I was curious I thought it

550
00:44:41,860 --> 00:44:43,140
always kind of gave the executive

551
00:44:43,140 --> 00:44:45,800
director a little cover in that there are

552
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:47,960
five people on this board you know

553
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:50,540
because we see good we see good we see

554
00:44:50,540 --> 00:44:54,500
good plans and we see bad plans where

555
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:57,520
and and sometimes you have to make a big

556
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:59,980
tough group decisions say that plan's not good enough.

557
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:29,660
That's not a good enough deal for the town. What you're proposing isn't comparable, you know, to what the fee would be for the department. So I just, it's just kind of a comment. It's a question I'm curious. You know, it's, is that a better way to handle it or, or, you know, it's one thing when you have a director that's got 40 years of experience. You know, the commission, I think 100% of the time we're going to take his lead on it. But if you have a director that's brand new

558
00:45:29,660 --> 00:45:32,900
and young and doesn't have all the institutional knowledge,

559
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:36,300
it's nice for that person to be able to draft

560
00:45:36,300 --> 00:45:38,200
by and to commission if that makes any sense.

561
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:41,880
No, I think I follow what you're saying.

562
00:45:42,180 --> 00:45:44,980
Again, one of the things that we're trying to do

563
00:45:44,980 --> 00:45:47,040
is bring some consistency.

564
00:45:47,220 --> 00:45:49,720
And I don't know how much of that we actually changed.

565
00:45:49,860 --> 00:45:51,440
Obviously, on a wreck impact for you there

566
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,040
be some input from the wreck department.

567
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:55,920
But again, ultimately, one of the reasons

568
00:45:56,540 --> 00:45:58,100
for putting them in one ordinance

569
00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:07,020
is so that whoever the granting authority is or reviewing authority is looking at comprehensively

570
00:46:07,020 --> 00:46:14,720
instead of having a number of independent board just saying I want mine, I want mine, I want mine.

571
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:25,140
That was kind of the idea that at some point there's a coordination of effort and in some cases

572
00:46:25,140 --> 00:46:31,560
some of the impact fees that are going to apply to some kinds of development aren't

573
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:36,280
even going to apply to what the rec fees cover, so they're not going to be an overlap.

574
00:46:36,740 --> 00:46:42,580
But particularly with residential, I mean, you find a lot of overlap with residential

575
00:46:42,580 --> 00:46:47,840
development, and this is always a concern about, I think you might have been alluding to this

576
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:53,640
a little bit about what the impact is on that in terms of affordability for housing and

577
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:59,620
other issue. So, again, I think that's why the thought was to put them in one place and

578
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:08,220
have a more cohesive policy and review. Does that mean that it's more of the review

579
00:47:08,220 --> 00:47:10,160
falls on the planning board?

580
00:47:12,260 --> 00:47:15,300
Well, again, it depends on how, you know,

581
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:20,180
again, in the ordinance, it says who the licensing authority is. I mean, in most of the development,

582
00:47:20,180 --> 00:47:21,540
and it's going to be the planning board.

583
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,560
So again, we're just trying to lay it out there

584
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,380
so that it's clear to a developer and clear to whoever

585
00:47:29,380 --> 00:47:30,860
the reviewing authority is.

586
00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:33,920
And again, most of those cases, the reviewing authority

587
00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:35,260
is going to be the planning board,

588
00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:37,440
because they're going to be subdivisions or site plans

589
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,340
or that type of thing.

590
00:47:39,060 --> 00:47:41,520
But there are potential impact fees.

591
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,400
It would have nothing to do with the planning board

592
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,820
that may get levied just on a building permit basis.

593
00:47:47,820 --> 00:48:02,560
And, you know, so, ultimately, as I said, you know, the process should be pretty much the same as it is now is that the planning board would consider those in the review of the project and then would get input from the various,

594
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:05,580
I don't want to call them constituencies, but different boards.

595
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,280
But again, I'll be levied under that particular ordinance.

596
00:48:12,340 --> 00:48:40,900
So, I guess, John, to kind of take a crack at what Mike is saying, and I think that I'm just not here in the answer, I think that maybe you're looking for Mike, and I don't want to speak for you, but the issue is pretty cut and dried, you know, historically before we amended the ordinance in 2016, I think it was when we went through this process, you referred to Mike.

597
00:48:40,900 --> 00:48:49,220
We updated the methodology and what we had been experiencing since the late 80s was the

598
00:48:49,220 --> 00:48:57,960
language was not strong enough and the recognition found itself many times hearing proposals

599
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:06,420
from developers where because the language wasn't tighter stronger they would take lands

600
00:49:06,420 --> 00:49:10,520
that couldn't be developed, did we lose him?

601
00:49:12,850 --> 00:49:13,470
He heard enough.

602
00:49:15,070 --> 00:49:18,070
Well, I guess for the benefit of Emily,

603
00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:24,790
what I was saying, John, is back in the 80s under the old ordinance that was first created in 88.

604
00:49:25,330 --> 00:49:27,870
We would get a lot of developers that would come forward and say,

605
00:49:28,270 --> 00:49:31,390
geez, we've got a detention fawn that will make a wonderful skating ring.

606
00:49:32,110 --> 00:49:35,990
And we've met our obligation under the ordinance to meet the recreation requirement.

607
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:41,230
And the recognition would say, no, we don't need to take on another rent.

608
00:49:41,350 --> 00:49:46,790
We don't need to take on the liability of a rent that's got water beneath it, and so on, so forth.

609
00:49:46,910 --> 00:49:53,730
And we would go through this kind of wrangling for a lack of a better term to arrive at a solution.

610
00:49:54,370 --> 00:50:00,990
And when it was rewritten in 16, given the fact that we knew the base and all the conveyances were coming,

611
00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:05,670
we knew we needed funds to develop facilities.

612
00:50:05,670 --> 00:50:08,510
We didn't need any more land, we needed the funds.

613
00:50:08,930 --> 00:50:13,670
So the ordinance was redrafted to require

614
00:50:14,370 --> 00:50:18,550
that they make a fee contribution based on the number

615
00:50:18,550 --> 00:50:21,010
of bedrooms in units.

616
00:50:21,850 --> 00:50:25,790
And only under five or six other conditions could the

617
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:30,690
recognition even consider accepting land, which had to meet

618
00:50:30,690 --> 00:50:34,950
one of these six, a key connection in a trail quarter was one.

619
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:42,910
There were six different items that the recognition could have considered instead of the fee except this because it's a critical connection that we want to make.

620
00:50:45,590 --> 00:50:59,450
And the reviews got much and much less before the recognition because the developers would submit their applications and they would look at their options and they would determine that the fee is the only option in our case because we can't meet any of these.

621
00:50:59,450 --> 00:51:07,030
So it made it a lot, it consumed a lot less time here, but when it came here in those instances

622
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:11,590
where there was a decision to be made about whether this meets one of those six litmus

623
00:51:11,590 --> 00:51:21,290
tests to have a fee waiver, it was the recommissions vote and with a recommendation for me before

624
00:51:21,290 --> 00:51:26,210
the vote that would then get sent on to the planning board for their consideration.

625
00:51:26,210 --> 00:51:30,950
And the way the language has been redrafted is for that just to be reversed.

626
00:51:31,450 --> 00:51:36,550
With input from the recognition, the recreation director will make that recommendation to the

627
00:51:36,550 --> 00:51:37,070
planning board.

628
00:51:37,210 --> 00:51:39,650
And I think that was really what you were getting at.

629
00:51:40,050 --> 00:51:44,470
We've seen some cases that are just, you know, it puts, it's kind of awkward.

630
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:49,810
They're just terrible recommendations that don't even come close to, you know, meeting the

631
00:51:49,810 --> 00:51:51,230
needs of the ordinance.

632
00:51:51,230 --> 00:52:06,730
And, you know, you kind of need a body of people to tell that person's like, you got to do better, you know, and I think it's hard sometimes to just put it all on one person to say, no, that doesn't cut it, you know, I'll talk to my, I can see, I can see where it puts the director in a funny spot.

633
00:52:06,910 --> 00:52:14,730
I will just add this to the conversation, because I think it's fair to say, I have no problem being put in that position just so it's not an issue that,

634
00:52:14,730 --> 00:52:19,010
that I want it that way or I don't want it that way.

635
00:52:19,270 --> 00:52:20,810
If it's that way, that's fine.

636
00:52:21,030 --> 00:52:22,350
That's way we'll administer it.

637
00:52:22,930 --> 00:52:24,890
But that was Mike's question, John.

638
00:52:25,550 --> 00:52:25,990
And,

639
00:52:29,130 --> 00:52:32,590
you know, it won't, you know, it's pretty tough

640
00:52:33,170 --> 00:52:37,130
for any development to pitch kind of an open space,

641
00:52:37,130 --> 00:52:40,250
you know, create recreation that's gonna live up

642
00:52:40,250 --> 00:52:40,930
to our standards.

643
00:52:41,170 --> 00:52:42,370
They're not gonna make, you know,

644
00:52:42,430 --> 00:52:44,010
it's really hard to hit that litmus test.

645
00:52:44,010 --> 00:53:06,570
It's got to be a really, you know, you're doing an amazing, you know, connection to waterfronts or, you know, it's got to be something really substantial and most people don't come close to meeting that, but it seems like everyone comes through and pitches, you know, I'm going to create a trail of the bus stop and I don't want to pay recreation, please, you know, and it's just not quite, you know, enough.

646
00:53:09,830 --> 00:53:14,210
I mean, that is true, but I guess I would point out.

647
00:53:14,350 --> 00:53:19,270
I think, you know, there's a history to this, and you're all familiar with it, those

648
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:25,150
of us have been here a little bit, but, you know, I think what happened with the development

649
00:53:25,150 --> 00:53:31,250
of the methodology is you eliminated a lot of that wrangling and negotiating and pushing

650
00:53:31,250 --> 00:53:34,090
and pull and all that other stuff that used to go on about.

651
00:53:36,130 --> 00:53:37,910
So again, there's a difference between, I think,

652
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:39,810
I don't think we're substantially changing

653
00:53:39,810 --> 00:53:45,790
the purpose or the methodology of the B, which

654
00:53:45,790 --> 00:53:48,250
was the bigger problem, not where it sat.

655
00:53:48,710 --> 00:53:51,570
That was the problem, was how the fee was calculated,

656
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:55,490
how it was levied, how it could negotiate, all that other stuff.

657
00:53:56,010 --> 00:53:57,750
That was the bigger problem with the fee,

658
00:53:57,890 --> 00:53:59,490
not the fact that it was in the zoning ordinance

659
00:53:59,490 --> 00:54:01,730
or in the municipal code or someplace else.

660
00:54:02,030 --> 00:54:06,570
So the big work, the big lift has been, it was that,

661
00:54:06,710 --> 00:54:08,270
and that's taken care of.

662
00:54:09,010 --> 00:54:10,850
Again, essentially what we're trying to do,

663
00:54:10,970 --> 00:54:13,350
is just move the language over now

664
00:54:13,350 --> 00:54:15,330
to the municipal code.

665
00:54:15,430 --> 00:54:17,250
And I would say, you know, if anyone wants to know

666
00:54:17,250 --> 00:54:19,550
about the problems, the one other one

667
00:54:19,550 --> 00:54:22,390
that I remember talking quite specifically was,

668
00:54:22,710 --> 00:54:24,470
there were times when developers paid no fee

669
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:26,510
because there was no agreement on what the heck

670
00:54:26,510 --> 00:54:27,250
the fee would be.

671
00:54:27,250 --> 00:54:34,290
And so they've never got levied and you know that wasn't good either, but I think with the work

672
00:54:34,290 --> 00:54:40,570
that was done by Tom and others to develop the methodology and lay it out there and you know

673
00:54:40,570 --> 00:54:46,590
we're in a better position than we were before when there was you know this negotiated kind of thing.

674
00:54:48,130 --> 00:54:56,590
So I guess to bring you to a point of considered to consider, the memo I put in your packets today

675
00:54:56,590 --> 00:55:01,650
that I got from the planning director, kind of summarized what was presented to the

676
00:55:01,650 --> 00:55:06,750
planning board last night. So they voted, as I understand it, a set of public hearing

677
00:55:06,750 --> 00:55:17,890
to do what is being recommended. So you could do nothing, or you could take a vote to inform

678
00:55:17,890 --> 00:55:24,910
the planning board that you concur with moving, none of the language with the exception of

679
00:55:24,910 --> 00:55:28,670
This swap in roles is going to change.

680
00:55:29,170 --> 00:55:30,810
It's just where it resides.

681
00:55:30,810 --> 00:55:33,390
It's still going to be referenced in the zoning ordinance.

682
00:55:33,790 --> 00:55:41,470
There's going to be a recreation requirement section in the ordinance that's going to say for further details each after 20 in the municipal code.

683
00:55:42,450 --> 00:55:47,210
But so it's still going to be a requirement that's going to be identified in the zoning ordinance.

684
00:55:48,730 --> 00:55:54,270
So I think the planning board's probably going to ask the planning director, what does

685
00:55:54,270 --> 00:55:56,410
the recognition take about this idea?

686
00:55:56,930 --> 00:56:04,170
So I do think it's important that you consider taking an action tonight, upper down on supporting

687
00:56:04,860 --> 00:56:05,170
this.

688
00:56:05,330 --> 00:56:13,230
And I would recommend, you know, with the exception of the change in whose responsible for

689
00:56:13,230 --> 00:56:16,310
conveying the recommendation, that's the only thing that's different.

690
00:56:16,310 --> 00:56:18,050
that's being contemplated.

691
00:56:19,630 --> 00:56:24,910
So my recommendation is if you're okay with that change

692
00:56:24,910 --> 00:56:28,450
in roles, which if you're not, that's fine too,

693
00:56:28,650 --> 00:56:31,070
but I think that's the stickling point.

694
00:56:31,390 --> 00:56:33,910
The only, from my perspective, that's the only thing

695
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:36,330
that would hold me up if I were in your shoes

696
00:56:36,970 --> 00:56:39,190
as to whether or not this, because it's not going

697
00:56:39,190 --> 00:56:40,190
to make any meaningful difference

698
00:56:40,190 --> 00:56:43,370
in how the fees assessed, it's not.

699
00:56:44,830 --> 00:56:46,950
Does anyone else have any questions?

700
00:56:47,990 --> 00:56:55,610
I have one question, and this, again, it's just to educate myself, the way that fee is calculated and

701
00:56:55,610 --> 00:57:02,930
understanding that this fee is not changing, calculation isn't changing, and this seems like this has been in place since what 2016 or 2018.

702
00:57:03,930 --> 00:57:10,170
But when things like this come up, now people will maybe draw attention to it where they haven't previously.

703
00:57:10,170 --> 00:57:18,890
I'm just curious, why a mobile home and a mobile home park has a higher impact fee than a four bedroom house?

704
00:57:19,110 --> 00:57:28,170
Why is that, is that some national, is that a planning director that they're drawing a calculation somewhere?

705
00:57:28,270 --> 00:57:32,970
There's a lot of factors in the methodology that are taken into consideration, and one of them is density,

706
00:57:33,250 --> 00:57:36,370
one of them is land value, there's a whole number of factors.

707
00:57:36,370 --> 00:57:42,170
So, you know, typically a single family home is going to occupy a lot less square footage.

708
00:57:42,810 --> 00:57:49,430
I mean, it's going to occupy a lot more, and a mobile home is going to occupy a lot less.

709
00:57:49,790 --> 00:57:54,970
Yeah, on an acre, that's 64 people on an acre, whereas an acre of a typical house is a lot less.

710
00:57:55,350 --> 00:58:00,330
You know, so you can put a lot more people in theory, you know, in a trailer, in an acre of land,

711
00:58:00,690 --> 00:58:02,570
in a more dwelling units, or more beds.

712
00:58:02,570 --> 00:58:08,410
So is that fee based off of the acreage, or is that based off of the dwelling?

713
00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:13,990
But that's based off the individual taxpayer, correct, the impact fee?

714
00:58:14,130 --> 00:58:19,610
And it comes into, this is being discussed like in the comprehensive plan, piece two,

715
00:58:19,730 --> 00:58:21,350
because I sit over there as well.

716
00:58:21,570 --> 00:58:24,370
And so, impact fees have been a big discussion.

717
00:58:24,990 --> 00:58:31,110
And so it's just, it's an interesting thing to think about the way that impact fees

718
00:58:31,110 --> 00:58:34,770
effects different parts of town, and I'm just curious, like I was just curious with.

719
00:58:35,170 --> 00:58:39,030
But you know, in that one, that doesn't hit someone who's buying or leasing that trailer.

720
00:58:39,290 --> 00:58:41,510
That's hitting the developer on the trailer.

721
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:46,390
The developer on, right, this is on, this is developer based only.

722
00:58:46,670 --> 00:58:53,990
So if, or if you were to be a person who purchased a plot of land and wants to build a house on that land,

723
00:58:54,410 --> 00:58:57,370
then you are then paying the impact fee at that time.

724
00:58:57,550 --> 00:58:57,790
Correct.

725
00:58:57,790 --> 00:59:01,750
This is not in other assessments of

726
00:59:02,510 --> 00:59:05,710
taxes, it's got to go through major development review.

727
00:59:05,810 --> 00:59:08,290
This is only during the planning of new construction.

728
00:59:08,510 --> 00:59:12,530
Or if you've also applied to someone building

729
00:59:12,530 --> 00:59:15,230
a single home.

730
00:59:16,290 --> 00:59:18,790
Right, but during the initial construction only of that,

731
00:59:18,890 --> 00:59:21,230
it's not a recurring.

732
00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:21,870
Correct.

733
00:59:22,270 --> 00:59:23,470
Right, correct.

734
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:24,570
Thank you.

735
00:59:26,810 --> 00:59:35,790
So does anyone have the memo right in front of them and want to make a motion to endorse this for the planning board's consideration?

736
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:42,620
I have it in front of me, but Mike, I thought you raised a really good question.

737
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:51,400
I'm not sure I have a fully formed thought as to where it stands, you know, what makes the most sense.

738
00:59:51,900 --> 00:59:59,900
Yeah, on the just on the just the one who has the last director versus the right yeah who consults with who yes exactly

739
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:09,800
Okay. Yeah. So if there's any more discussion that others have, I think that would be helpful for me, but I do have the memo in front of me. It stuck out to me as, you know,

740
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:28,280
I can see how 99% of the time it's not going to, it's not going to operate any differently. You know, in my experience, in the cases we've seen, if there is a, if there's a, what I'm calling a bad application,

741
01:00:30,000 --> 01:00:35,320
Tom still comes to us and we all get to weigh in and say that we don't think that that

742
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,840
is a quid, you know, it doesn't, doesn't meet our standard, you know.

743
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:45,320
And so he may, he may tell that person that developer is like, I don't think it's going

744
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:48,600
to cut it, but I'll bring it to the commission and then we all have a chance to weigh in.

745
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:54,100
But it's just at the end of the day, he has to say with our consultation, it's not like

746
01:00:54,100 --> 01:01:00,380
we vote on it with him briefing us and so I think 99% I don't see it being a big issue.

747
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:05,600
Breon, I just know that there have been some really bad applications where I'm sure he

748
01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:10,180
appreciated having the cover of five people saying that's a terrible, that's not even

749
01:01:10,180 --> 01:01:14,420
close to being what our standard is and you know I think we still have that opportunity

750
01:01:14,420 --> 01:01:15,980
to say that the way it's written.

751
01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:23,320
No I read Mike and I would also say that there's been far less times where this has occurred

752
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:29,240
It happens very infrequently now where it used to be almost every meeting.

753
01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:35,380
When I first came on, it was dreaded when someone was come because it wasn't really nebulous.

754
01:01:35,580 --> 01:01:38,140
It wasn't written well and it was the weird calculation.

755
01:01:40,180 --> 01:01:41,240
It's been much better.

756
01:01:42,260 --> 01:01:42,800
Question, Eric?

757
01:01:43,380 --> 01:01:43,540
John.

758
01:01:43,760 --> 01:01:44,860
Oh, John's got his hand up.

759
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:45,020
Yep.

760
01:01:45,020 --> 01:01:51,040
But yeah, no, you probably just said it, you know, my thoughts exactly, that is, you

761
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:56,040
know, I can't imagine the wreck director is going to have a, a wreck commission that

762
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,840
says we don't like this and then he's just going to say, well, that's tough.

763
01:02:00,780 --> 01:02:07,160
So I don't, you know, I think it's six to one half a dozen the other, honestly, you

764
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,400
know, Tommy's not the go rogue kind of guy, and I can't imagine too many directors would

765
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:11,640
be.

766
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,640
I don't think we have an issue at all when it comes in charge of it.

767
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,400
I guess, you know, Mike brought up the point, you know, if we're thinking of, okay,

768
01:02:20,420 --> 01:02:25,940
if we have someone else, does that person get exposed to a lot more political pressure,

769
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:31,260
potentially from developers to accept the terms, right?

770
01:02:32,140 --> 01:02:38,000
Well, I think that maybe true, but whether or not you ultimately vote or you vote to recommend

771
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:43,640
to do with the wreck director. I think that provides the cover, but I'll let you know, that's up to

772
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:50,000
Tommy, I guess, to speak to that. But you know, one thing, if you weren't involved at all,

773
01:02:50,260 --> 01:02:56,980
and it was just advising you what his decision was, but I can't imagine that, I mean, we do this all

774
01:02:56,980 --> 01:03:01,900
the time when people don't like what we say, we'll say, well, you know, fine, we'll go to the

775
01:03:01,900 --> 01:03:05,800
For instance, we'll tell the council, but we're not going to recommend that.

776
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:10,360
And, you know, I mean, to be again, it's probably the same outcome.

777
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:17,720
You know, in that instance where, okay, everyone in the recognition wouldn't vote to approve this application.

778
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:27,120
But the director still overrides us and says, yes, the commission could still go to planning board and say, you know, we don't, we as a group don't agree with this.

779
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:34,220
You know, so there's still a process, there's still public comment, there's checks and balances in it the way it's written, I think.

780
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:45,820
And I think it's just, you just have to know as a body that when you do have eventually a new director someday, way up,

781
01:03:47,780 --> 01:03:55,360
that, you know, we just have to have that person's back in these types of things, but I think it's, we see fewer and fewer of them because it's written better.

782
01:03:56,460 --> 01:04:11,820
And I think, you know, I'm kind of over, you know, I originally I had some concern, more concerns beyond, but I think for me, the consolidation and the efficiency and the kind of the control of the process overrides my concerns.

783
01:04:13,660 --> 01:04:14,320
Thank you.

784
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,800
Yeah, do you have anything? Well, you're good.

785
01:04:18,940 --> 01:04:21,060
Well, it's got a girl's hockey game on his mind.

786
01:04:23,060 --> 01:04:28,120
All right, so we need to we need a motion from someone to make a recommendation to the

787
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:31,680
planning board to move the memo on. I just don't know how to say it. I don't have it right

788
01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,720
front of me. Well, I might suggest one for your consideration.

789
01:04:35,780 --> 01:04:36,800
Thank you.

790
01:04:36,800 --> 01:05:00,940
The commission supports the proposed moving of the recreation impact fee methodology from the zoning ordinance to the municipal code of ordinances consistent with the planning board, planning department's memo of December 9, 2021.

791
01:05:00,940 --> 01:05:09,620
one. Does anyone want to make that motion? Thank you, Will. Seconded by Eric. All those in favor?

792
01:05:11,850 --> 01:05:12,430
It's unanimous.

793
01:05:15,040 --> 01:05:19,420
Thanks, John. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, board. You're going to stick around

794
01:05:19,420 --> 01:05:26,720
for Sabrina's inauguration. I want a little bit. Absolutely. This is Sabrina's first

795
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:31,140
first out of the box, right? So this will be good. I'm not going to miss that.

796
01:05:31,140 --> 01:05:35,680
It was my first time on the bus, just my first time here on the bus.

797
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:37,180
I'm sure it was a really big thing.

798
01:05:38,260 --> 01:05:42,420
I think that's where we're at in the agenda.

799
01:05:43,780 --> 01:05:45,140
So, Sabrina, you're up.

800
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:45,740
Awesome.

801
01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:50,000
All right, so included in the agenda packet,

802
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:55,440
you will find the program update that I've been able to put together.

803
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:00,060
Most of these programs with updated numbers

804
01:06:00,060 --> 01:06:03,680
are winter related but at the very end there is a section that said done.

805
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:09,140
I want to make sure that we recap some of the ones that was prior to my arrival with October and November.

806
01:06:09,900 --> 01:06:12,920
And obviously we had a very successful trunk retreat and

807
01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:19,820
the 54th annual ski and skate stale staff did an amazing job still putting together

808
01:06:19,820 --> 01:06:25,920
a well robust offering of programs and keeping the wheels running prior to my arrival and

809
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,020
me trying to get caught up to speed as well.

810
01:06:28,020 --> 01:06:34,180
So a big kudos to them, a few changes that I just wanted to point out through this report.

811
01:06:34,780 --> 01:06:37,400
The loss valley learned to ski and so forth.

812
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:42,900
We actually have 30 kids registered for that, it says zero in there, we actually have 30, which is great.

813
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:48,300
It was about 27 skiers and three snowboarders, so that was a good breakdown.

814
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:57,220
Overall, we have about 28 teams in our youth basketball league.

815
01:06:58,000 --> 01:06:59,120
A quick break down.

816
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,300
We have six in the third and fourth grade for boys.

817
01:07:01,940 --> 01:07:03,740
For third and fourth grade girls, we have four teams.

818
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:08,060
The five, six boys have eight teams, which is a really good number.

819
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:11,080
And we have six teams going on in the fifth and sixth grade girls.

820
01:07:11,300 --> 01:07:17,440
So again, we have really good numbers, which I think a lot of other communities around us are struggling

821
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:23,320
to get people back in to participate, whereas ours are showing to be pretty strong, so that's a really good sign.

822
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:32,200
The pickable numbers, I just want you to note that those totals were from September 30th to December 7th.

823
01:07:32,200 --> 01:07:38,460
We didn't have time to go through and tally everything yet, so hopefully by the next report I'll have a complete fiscal year.

824
01:07:38,580 --> 01:07:46,100
So from July 1 to our current date, when our January meeting is, I'll have a better presentation on that one for the numbers.

825
01:07:48,340 --> 01:07:55,780
It's just some highlights that I also put in there is that we were able to work with the school department for the seventh day for a boy's program.

826
01:07:55,980 --> 01:08:04,620
Anyone that was not selected for the school team, the school agreed to pay for their fee to participate in our program, which was great.

827
01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:15,020
A majority of the kids that were not selected had already registered, but there was a few that were not able to because of the fee challenge with their households.

828
01:08:15,020 --> 01:08:20,400
So that was a positive step in, you know, relationship and connection that we could work with the school department.

829
01:08:20,540 --> 01:08:25,020
It's always good to see all of us working together just to keep the kids playing and being active.

830
01:08:25,260 --> 01:08:29,840
So that was a really positive thing that I don't think I've ever seen in any other community.

831
01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:31,720
So I enjoyed that.

832
01:08:33,160 --> 01:08:41,220
The high school teams have invited some of our youth basketball teams to come and play at a half time

833
01:08:41,220 --> 01:08:44,260
of the basketball, boys and girls games.

834
01:08:44,580 --> 01:08:48,300
We had our sixth grade travel team play the other night,

835
01:08:48,460 --> 01:08:50,240
which got some really good videos.

836
01:08:50,420 --> 01:08:51,860
That was good to get the youth involved

837
01:08:51,860 --> 01:08:53,720
with the varsity level and vice versa.

838
01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:58,940
And then we did get a lot of interest

839
01:08:58,940 --> 01:09:01,560
with a high school league in the November time.

840
01:09:01,820 --> 01:09:04,560
So we decided we're going to press pause.

841
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,240
And we're gonna try again in the February

842
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:08,920
when the school team is done.

843
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:13,340
We're hoping that we'll get a few more kids that will come out to really make up, you

844
01:09:13,340 --> 01:09:17,420
know, at least a 14-league and make it worth it for everyone to make it fun.

845
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:19,060
But if not, we'll try and find something.

846
01:09:19,240 --> 01:09:22,900
I will say that there are plenty of high school kids that come and participate in the open

847
01:09:22,900 --> 01:09:27,460
gyms that we have at the rec, so they're still getting out, which is always a good sign.

848
01:09:28,260 --> 01:09:32,600
We've been able to establish some more set pick-up all times we were getting phone calls

849
01:09:33,180 --> 01:09:36,600
consistently with fast-well-starting gym times, they're a little all over the place.

850
01:09:37,260 --> 01:09:42,860
So, we were able to work with the pick-ball community and players and kind of try to put together monthly calendar.

851
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:50,560
We have December and January that's been posted on the website and sent out through the mid-coast pick-up-all community.

852
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,740
And again, those are minimum times.

853
01:09:54,100 --> 01:09:56,080
There may be week to week.

854
01:09:56,240 --> 01:10:01,380
We have our weekly building schedule in which we could add additional times when it's appropriate.

855
01:10:01,380 --> 01:10:06,660
that indoor season has hit for a basketball and pick of also the numbers are increasing.

856
01:10:06,900 --> 01:10:10,940
So we're working and communicating with that community to get them what they need as well.

857
01:10:12,620 --> 01:10:16,480
And then I did just want to put out there that we have some programs that are in the pipelines.

858
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:20,300
They're just not completely confirmed with flyers out yet.

859
01:10:21,020 --> 01:10:23,980
But we're working on some vacation camps for the kiddos.

860
01:10:24,000 --> 01:10:27,320
We're going to do something for Valentine's Day, it's just a matter of what right now.

861
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:32,200
Indoor golf for both adults and kids, volleyball program.

862
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:38,640
We just got connected with Seaco's soccer to try and

863
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:42,440
figure out some type of soccer or indoor foot salt type program for the kids.

864
01:10:42,840 --> 01:10:47,440
Indoor track meets, we have indoor track the running club that has set in stone.

865
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:52,740
We're definitely going to do that, but the meets are still something we're working through, so hopefully more info will come out.

866
01:10:52,740 --> 01:10:58,660
And then, of course, the traditional midwinter classic for the basketball junior high tournament

867
01:10:59,220 --> 01:11:03,580
and some March tournaments were still just getting some of those dates and everything

868
01:11:03,580 --> 01:11:05,440
else lined up so we can promote it.

869
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:11,140
My philosophy is it's easier to cancel last minute than just throw something together last

870
01:11:11,140 --> 01:11:11,480
minute.

871
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:16,200
So, we're planning for normal and then pull the plug if it's needed.

872
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,880
And, again, I think that's how everyone schedules.

873
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:24,480
So right now it's easier to have things set and then just cancel it last minute and add something else. So

874
01:11:26,100 --> 01:11:26,540
That's

875
01:11:27,500 --> 01:11:36,040
That's a really good recap of where we are at. There's a list of current programs that we have going on with offerings all those flyers are updated on the website

876
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:39,480
There's one thing I'd like you to talk about

877
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:46,420
You and I talked recently just about COVID and how that we've been managing that with the youth basketball leagues and

878
01:11:46,420 --> 01:11:54,080
And we've given the commission typically every three months or so kind of an update on how things are evolving and what we're seeing and how we're dealing with it.

879
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:56,160
Can you kind of just give us a little insight?

880
01:11:56,620 --> 01:12:05,560
Sure, so COVID is very much still a thing as we've probably all seen the schools and colleges and going through various scenarios.

881
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:11,020
Thankfully, so far we haven't had any major impacts in our programs.

882
01:12:11,020 --> 01:12:16,520
I think the community and parents are doing a great job that when they hear they're either quarantine or positive tests

883
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,220
they are instantly reacting.

884
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:25,520
We have sent out some communication with the parents to remind them just to give us a call if there's ever any of those scenarios.

885
01:12:25,580 --> 01:12:32,740
We can get ahead of it to help prevent a community outbreak and they've been really great with communicating with us.

886
01:12:32,740 --> 01:12:42,240
There has been some confusion around the schools in pool testing because the town is following these CDC.

887
01:12:42,580 --> 01:12:51,260
We are not accepting a negative pool test as a green light for the kid to continue to participate in our programs.

888
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:56,900
It's if they're told the quarantine and they're unvaccinated, it's an instant, yeah, no, you're quarantine, you're not coming.

889
01:12:57,580 --> 01:13:03,880
Whereas the schools, they do have a little bit of flexibility because of their pool testing

890
01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:09,660
ability and that they're giving some kids the green light that if they have negative pool

891
01:13:09,660 --> 01:13:12,160
tests that they're still continued to go to school.

892
01:13:13,060 --> 01:13:19,500
And so there is confusion on, well, is rec considered a program in the school which it's separate.

893
01:13:19,820 --> 01:13:24,560
The school is very different from a classroom setting versus the rec program for basketball

894
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:24,940
practice.

895
01:13:24,940 --> 01:13:29,500
So there is a little bit of confusion, but we're working through that each case that comes up.

896
01:13:30,340 --> 01:13:34,340
I don't mean to interrupt you, just for the record because it has been a question that's been raised.

897
01:13:35,380 --> 01:13:43,720
The school department is not notifying the rec department as far as positive and negative testing that's done within the school, correct?

898
01:13:43,900 --> 01:13:44,120
Correct.

899
01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,080
Just to make sure that that's correct.

900
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:47,280
Yep, that's very correct.

901
01:13:51,550 --> 01:13:54,470
Is that, well, hey, great job. Are you done?

902
01:13:55,670 --> 01:13:57,210
I mean, I could talk all night.

903
01:13:57,210 --> 01:13:58,930
right? No, we don't have.

904
01:13:58,930 --> 01:14:01,090
Very clear, but we got a hockey game going on.

905
01:14:01,350 --> 01:14:04,010
Yes, you will. No, great job. Thank you very much.

906
01:14:04,370 --> 01:14:07,230
It's really, you know, as kind of concerning as

907
01:14:07,230 --> 01:14:10,190
COVID still is. It's great to see just the participation

908
01:14:10,190 --> 01:14:12,330
numbers. Yeah. Where I guess, you know,

909
01:14:12,410 --> 01:14:14,650
and everyone's still being cautious and aware,

910
01:14:14,870 --> 01:14:16,230
and that is all you can ask for.

911
01:14:16,510 --> 01:14:19,290
So we are very appreciative for everyone that's been

912
01:14:19,290 --> 01:14:21,210
communicating with us. And, you know,

913
01:14:21,290 --> 01:14:24,250
again, we take it case-by-case and whoever shows up

914
01:14:24,250 --> 01:14:26,750
on a Saturday, we mix the kids up and scrimmage,

915
01:14:26,750 --> 01:14:30,970
either way, they're beginning some type of basketball out of it, which is the goal, so.

916
01:14:31,210 --> 01:14:35,310
Yeah, and I think that's exactly the right approach, you know, cancel if you have to,

917
01:14:35,430 --> 01:14:37,190
but let's go for it otherwise.

918
01:14:37,410 --> 01:14:38,930
Let's plug for it as much as we can.

919
01:14:39,070 --> 01:14:41,770
I think we all need that, so thank you, and welcome.

920
01:14:42,170 --> 01:14:42,490
Thanks.

921
01:14:43,490 --> 01:14:44,630
He's got his hand up for you.

922
01:14:45,170 --> 01:14:46,430
Oh, yeah, just a manager.

923
01:14:48,570 --> 01:14:52,650
Yes, just wanted to comment on Sabrina's presentation, fantastic.

924
01:14:53,410 --> 01:14:59,970
But it's so happy you're here, so that's all I want to say, Serena, we just really pleased you with it.

925
01:15:03,560 --> 01:15:06,300
Thank you. Thanks for sticking around.

926
01:15:08,780 --> 01:15:29,600
You don't have to, you don't have to stick around for the next part. Well, come on, you must be good. So I think the only other business is, we did a new business is you. Old business is my piece. It's, it's the recap on the mid coast athletic and recreation complex. The mark.

927
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:34,900
as we like to call it so that is the 10 acres that we are in the midst of a

928
01:15:34,900 --> 01:15:41,360
planning process to come up with a master plan for what that wants to be right

929
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:46,560
next to the recreation center so we've had a really over the past month Tom

930
01:15:46,560 --> 01:15:53,080
alluded to it earlier we substitute our regular monthly meeting of the

931
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:57,540
rec commission for this public meeting for the Mark project which is right

932
01:15:57,540 --> 01:16:07,120
before Thanksgiving. And that was the culmination of a couple weeks of meetings with focus groups

933
01:16:07,120 --> 01:16:13,780
and local stakeholders, which were run by our consultant, CHA, and Greenplay. It's been a

934
01:16:13,780 --> 01:16:22,260
really robust process. There's been phenomenal response thus far. They've sent out a lot of people

935
01:16:22,260 --> 01:16:29,380
listening will have either seen a survey arrive in the mailbox or they were directed

936
01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:33,720
to the website to take it, but I think there's been an exceptional response to the surveys

937
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:40,240
that were out there. The surveys stay open until the end of the month, and I think we get

938
01:16:40,240 --> 01:16:47,160
a report back from the consultants in mid-January with results of pretty much what the suggestions

939
01:16:47,160 --> 01:16:50,720
are for uses out on that 10 acres.

940
01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:53,480
So we will take all that information.

941
01:16:53,480 --> 01:16:55,900
We've got a 19 person advisory committee

942
01:16:56,340 --> 01:16:58,980
that will work through the consultants

943
01:16:58,980 --> 01:17:01,420
to kind of distill what fits

944
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:05,360
and what seems feasible and affordable

945
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:09,700
and eventually it culminates in a suggestion

946
01:17:09,700 --> 01:17:15,180
to the council, possibly in February, February or March.

947
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:20,760
with the plan for reuse of that acreage.

948
01:17:21,400 --> 01:17:26,200
So I would say on a scale of 10, it's felt like a 9 to 10,

949
01:17:26,400 --> 01:17:29,220
the process and the positive feedback we're receiving

950
01:17:29,220 --> 01:17:30,840
from the general public.

951
01:17:32,860 --> 01:17:36,360
It's been very open and got a lot of cool ideas.

952
01:17:37,300 --> 01:17:40,200
And the hard part now is kind of managing those ideas

953
01:17:40,200 --> 01:17:42,280
and coming up with a plan that actually works

954
01:17:42,280 --> 01:17:45,500
and actually fits, managing expectations made me the trickiest part.

955
01:17:47,640 --> 01:17:49,480
But yeah, and what am I missing Tom?

956
01:17:49,760 --> 01:17:54,200
The only thing I would add is in terms of community engagement, we do have for

957
01:17:54,200 --> 01:18:01,540
those people who for various reasons don't want to or cannot complete the survey online.

958
01:18:02,140 --> 01:18:05,880
We have hard copies here at the Town Hall as well as the Recreation Center.

959
01:18:06,440 --> 01:18:10,720
People can drop by and grab a survey, take it home, fill it out or

960
01:18:10,720 --> 01:18:12,500
fill it out on site and leave it with us.

961
01:18:13,140 --> 01:18:19,020
Those will be included with all of the other survey results that come in online.

962
01:18:19,960 --> 01:18:24,880
And the other thing I think is important for people to know is there's been a little

963
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:30,360
bit of a confusion with respect to the statistically verifiable survey, which people receive the

964
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:37,540
postcard with a passcode to access, and then there's the open link survey.

965
01:18:37,540 --> 01:18:42,840
And we're getting questions not a lot but a few so I just want to get it out there.

966
01:18:43,500 --> 01:18:44,980
The surveys are not different.

967
01:18:45,640 --> 01:18:48,780
They're not asking different questions, it's the same survey.

968
01:18:49,380 --> 01:18:55,780
So people who may not have gotten a copy of the postcard with a statistically verifiable survey

969
01:18:56,540 --> 01:19:02,820
can take the open link survey, which you can get off the town's website and its homepage or hours.

970
01:19:03,340 --> 01:19:07,920
or you can pick up hard copies, as I said, but they're open till December 31st.

971
01:19:07,940 --> 01:19:12,020
And we hope anybody that's listening who hasn't been aware of this.

972
01:19:12,540 --> 01:19:15,800
Please take time to at least go online and complete the survey.

973
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:16,860
It shouldn't take very long.

974
01:19:17,340 --> 01:19:23,380
Your input's really important for us to make the best decisions about what we should consider for the site.

975
01:19:25,850 --> 01:19:27,930
Thank you for the supplement.

976
01:19:28,570 --> 01:19:30,530
Any questions of the commission?

977
01:19:30,670 --> 01:19:34,610
I think you all are pretty aware of the process thus far.

978
01:19:34,610 --> 01:19:36,490
you've heard a lot about it and been involved,

979
01:19:39,670 --> 01:19:40,130
okay.

980
01:19:40,390 --> 01:19:41,750
Seeing no questions, we will move on.

981
01:19:42,330 --> 01:19:47,150
And that brings us to, when we meet next, right?

982
01:19:47,990 --> 01:19:49,050
I think we've covered everything.

983
01:19:49,250 --> 01:19:52,070
The next meeting is.

984
01:19:52,270 --> 01:19:52,970
Third Wednesday.

985
01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:57,780
Third day, January 19th.

986
01:20:00,480 --> 01:20:02,500
And what's the plan now?

987
01:20:02,660 --> 01:20:07,160
So the plan is to come to these in person.

988
01:20:07,160 --> 01:20:10,500
and that's available, so there's no.

989
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:14,480
Yeah, I would ask John if he has any other information

990
01:20:14,480 --> 01:20:15,960
beyond what we are under right now,

991
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:18,560
which is we can meet in person

992
01:20:20,220 --> 01:20:23,140
and people still have the option to meet virtually.

993
01:20:23,960 --> 01:20:27,580
I don't know, John, if you have a timeline to report

994
01:20:27,580 --> 01:20:29,800
on how much longer that may be the case

995
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:32,720
or anything you might want to share along those lines.

996
01:20:34,180 --> 01:20:44,200
The only thing I can tell you is that the ability to meet remotely was the result of

997
01:20:44,200 --> 01:20:49,320
the town council declaring a state emergency given a transmissibility of COVID.

998
01:20:50,500 --> 01:20:56,880
And as long as that's in effect, then the remote meeting participation or remote participation

999
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,400
in meetings policy kicks in.

1000
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:06,720
The council has it mandated that people go fully remote and I don't think they will.

1001
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:12,980
So it's pretty much status quo until the council takes another action.

1002
01:21:14,820 --> 01:21:15,100
Okay.

1003
01:21:15,420 --> 01:21:16,300
I don't know if that helped.

1004
01:21:16,620 --> 01:21:20,040
So you don't have to, you can do just what you're doing right tonight.

1005
01:21:20,340 --> 01:21:20,440
Yeah.

1006
01:21:20,920 --> 01:21:21,140
Okay.

1007
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:23,140
We'll plan on it until we hear otherwise.

1008
01:21:25,500 --> 01:21:27,120
Can we get a motion to adjourn?

1009
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:28,100
Emily

1010
01:21:30,730 --> 01:21:37,900
seconded by Eric all those in favor good night everybody thanks for

1011
01:21:37,900 --> 01:21:41,860
coming John yeah thanks Michael thank you all right good night everybody