[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:01] Good evening, everybody. This is the Brunswick Recreation Commission. It is Wednesday, December 15, 2021. My name is Mike Lyon. I'm the chair of the Commission. And we're going to go around the table and around Zoom with introduction. So I'll say your name, and then you can introduce yourself. Will, you want to go first? We'll walk off Commissioner. Okay, Breon. Breon, abstain, Commissioner. And Eric? Eric Fushe, Commissioner. And Emily?
[0:32] I'm a leech met commissioner and Sabrina Deputy Director of Screen of
[0:37] Ast first meeting for the deputy director welcome we're excited to have you
[0:41] here and Tom Ferrell director of Parks and Recreation okay we're gonna
[0:47] I don't know I'm hoping everyone had a chance to look at the minutes from up
[0:50] over we missed the November meeting so I take a motion to approve those minutes from
[0:56] from Emily, seconded by Will, all those in favor?
[1:01] And that's unanimous.
[1:04] Could I just say something right there?
[1:05] Just for the record, what we did in November
[1:08] as opposed to the meeting was to hold
[1:10] the community engagement session on the night
[1:12] we would have held the rec commission meeting
[1:14] and those notes will be in the recreation online
[1:17] if people wanna see what was done at that November meeting.
[1:20] It'll be included in the Recreation Commission
[1:23] in meeting for November.
[1:26] So in essence, that public meeting for the public
[1:29] took the replace that are normal meeting.
[1:32] Correct.
[1:33] Okay.
[1:34] Super.
[1:36] We are going to make an adjustment to the agenda.
[1:40] We're going to wait for Sabrina's
[1:41] inaugural Recreation Program report first ever
[1:45] and we are going to jump to some new business.
[1:49] And Dennis, we're going to let you go first.
[1:51] parks, division, winter maintenance operations, including public skating rinks, let you go,
[1:58] just Dennis Wilson from parks and facilities.
[2:01] Let me just open up if I could, Mike.
[2:05] We put this on for two reasons.
[2:09] One, we felt it's appropriate to give you an update on where we are staffing-wise because
[2:14] we're having some real challenges and secondly, Emily had mentioned that she was hearing input
[2:21] from the community and wanted us to be able to speak openly tonight's meeting about ice
[2:25] rings and you know winter maintenance. So before Dennis gets into the details with respect
[2:32] to the various practices let me just inform you that right now as we sit here today we're
[2:38] looking at five full-time vacancies in the maintenance department and we've had vacancies there
[2:47] since June of this year, not all at the same time, but we're now at the point where we
[2:56] have had some preliminary meetings with public works in terms of winter operations, because
[3:01] we're involved in things beyond parks, in terms of sidewalks around schools and so on
[3:07] so forth. We're prioritizing, obviously, what we're going to be able to get to. So part
[3:14] Part of what you're going to hear in Dennis's comments are things like rinks and trails are probably going to fall further down the list because we've got to get all of the school roots open first and the rec center and parking lots for municipal buildings that we're responsible for clearing so we're asking the community to be patient.
[3:38] We have been very active on a number of fronts our human resources office has been very involved in trying to promote this and a lot of ways we wouldn't ordinarily do.
[3:49] So our own Facebook page is getting messaging pumped out there on a weekly basis about continued openings and encouragement for people to inquire.
[3:58] We have had, for example, the skiing skate sale this year.
[4:03] We had a permanent set up where our human resources person came.
[4:06] Since we have such long lines for people waiting to get into the building,
[4:10] had literature there on all of the positions we contacted the colleges locally.
[4:15] We've attended, or we're getting ready to attend, Southern Maine, I think,
[4:20] University of Southern Maine career fair.
[4:22] So we're doing just about anything we can do to try to identify applicants.
[4:30] So if people are out there listening to our meeting tonight and you have an interest
[4:33] in maintenance, we have several positions that we're currently advertising for.
[4:40] We'll go over a little bit of what in your packets I put the materials, the marketing materials
[4:47] for the position.
[4:48] and those are all online.
[4:50] So I'm not gonna walk through it here at the meeting,
[4:53] but if you go to our website,
[4:57] you can find all the details with respect
[4:59] to job descriptions, benefit packages, salary ranges.
[5:04] All that information is there at our website.
[5:10] And with that, I'll turn it over to Dennis
[5:14] to give you the best, I guess, perspective.
[5:17] we have at this point on what we anticipate for our abilities given the current contingent
[5:23] of staff we have to tackle typical winter maintenance operations.
[5:28] So you'd like to go down to see?
[5:30] Good evening.
[5:31] It's a great time to start talking about this because apparently you were getting three
[5:34] to five inches potentially Saturday night into Sunday.
[5:37] So here comes winter.
[5:39] So the first slide here is the new Kate Ferbys East trail map.
[5:45] One of the reasons why we brought this up is because we opened up the two last remaining
[5:50] trails that we built last year and they'll be backcountry trails this year.
[5:54] They won't be groomed and a little bit more work before we can actually groom these.
[5:58] That's the green trail and the purple trail up by the butternut cove.
[6:03] Those two are now opened up for the season.
[6:06] We have a total of 5.7 miles of trail on the east this year.
[6:11] That's including the two new trails.
[6:14] My anticipation and hope is to groom about 2.7 miles this year, which is the red trail,
[6:23] which is the Gachel Loop.
[6:26] And there's the Ferrin Trail also that goes down to the bay.
[6:32] Those are the main trails that are multi-use trails that I will try to get groomed hopefully
[6:38] within a few days after a certain snowfall with measurable snowfall.
[6:43] Right now with the challenges we have, that's the prime objective when we do grooming trails.
[6:50] If we have better snow and we have more staff coming later in the winter, my intention
[6:55] is to start grooming the trails along the coastal edge of the preserve there.
[7:02] So 2.7 is the lowest note, the low miles for grooming and you know as we get more people
[7:10] will increase that all this will be on our website too under winter activities and I'll
[7:16] have that as all this information will be there but it also will be tell when we're going
[7:20] to be doing some grooming trails and stuff when will we done what trails will be groomed
[7:26] what ones won't be able to be done and get to so I ask everyone to check that out after
[7:30] or snow storms and I ask everyone to have patience
[7:33] with us due to our other snow obligations
[7:35] around the town with what Tom was saying,
[7:37] the sidewalks and whatnot.
[7:40] We increased, thanks to public works help out too,
[7:42] we actually had some three culverts replaced this year too.
[7:45] So some water in between the green trail
[7:48] and that gray trail, that area in red,
[7:51] we had three culverts replaced.
[7:53] So it's some of the water that was over the trails last year
[7:57] where you probably saw some plywood
[8:00] that has been rectified and now is good to go.
[8:03] The one thing I do want to say is one of the culverts due to its size has created a little bit of a great change on the trail.
[8:11] So people will notice that when they do any kind of walking, any kind of snow, you know, shuing or skiing this year.
[8:17] It's a gradual change.
[8:18] We've had positive remarks about it so far for the fall and hopefully for the skiers and stuff will help positive remarks too.
[8:29] So here's the trail for the west and includes the trail on the golf course last year.
[8:38] We had a loop of 0.95 miles.
[8:41] I created, you know, enlarge that to a little over a one mile this year because it seems
[8:47] to be kind of the most demand on that side.
[8:49] So I increased that trail.
[8:50] That's the groomed trail that we're going to try to do this year.
[8:53] This one also has, let's see, for West, we have 2.6 miles of groomed trail this year,
[9:00] out of a total of 4.2 miles total for all the trails up together.
[9:04] So the blue, red, and the white trails are going to be our focal points for grooming,
[9:08] when we can.
[9:11] Our hopes and anticipations is we will do West grooming first
[9:15] and then go to other trails after that,
[9:18] because West seems to be the most popular trails for skiing and snow-shoeing walking.
[9:24] All the other trails for the most part will stay as backcountry trails just like last year,
[9:30] unless we get a significant amount of snow, and of course we get some more people to help as
[9:36] you know labor shortage and stuff. Then we'll start thinking about grooming other trails as well.
[9:49] put a lift.
[9:50] Yes, first.
[9:51] Okay.
[9:52] Real quick, Dennis.
[9:53] Yes.
[9:53] Questions so that new parking area on the west, is that that's going to be in use this
[9:59] winter?
[10:00] Carling is going to stay closed until we get a better frost driving on it right now is way
[10:04] too soft.
[10:05] Yeah.
[10:06] People will sink in.
[10:07] It's going to be like a week to week thing to look at that to kind of see how much frost
[10:12] is right now.
[10:12] We're going to keep it closed as long as we can until the frost hardens that up so we're
[10:16] able to have people drive on it.
[10:17] I know there's some other talk about, yeah, do you want to?
[10:23] We've had some preliminary discussion just to let you know that we're maybe reaching
[10:28] back out to the person leasing the golf course from Mira with respect to possibly requesting
[10:35] an extension of the lease we had to use the parking lot and we had a discussion about that
[10:42] as recently as this week, but we're hesitant to put any vehicles in that lot right now
[10:48] that we've newly constructed, because it didn't get paid before winter and it's pretty soft right
[10:53] now until we get some frost in the ground.
[10:59] So move on to ice rings here. Lichness, this is the
[11:02] sign that's going to be posted at Lichness when the ice rink opens up. Facility to open 9 to 10
[11:08] in PM, the lights and everything will stay until 10 PM. The thing I ask again is that Lichness
[11:14] And all ice rinks will be a challenge this year with the staff shortage.
[11:19] And it's probably going to be after the first of the year before we get any of them open.
[11:24] And that's even weather-dependent right now.
[11:26] We're looking at 50-degree, 40-degree day, you know, during the day.
[11:28] So we don't have the weather.
[11:30] So hopefully after the first of the year, the weather will help with us.
[11:33] We can get some of these ice rinks.
[11:35] Listen to this as we the first one that we are working on right now.
[11:39] To get open, we're actually doing all the prep work.
[11:44] to wait for the conditions to be good enough for us
[11:48] to start flooding it and getting the ice in there.
[11:51] After that, we're gonna start working on,
[11:53] hopefully the mall, depending on again, weather,
[11:57] if we get some snow for banking,
[11:59] if we can get some good daytime temps
[12:01] where we can start working on that one.
[12:03] Again, the ice rinks is gonna take us a lot longer
[12:06] to get up and running this share, you know,
[12:09] weather-depending, but also with the amount of people
[12:12] But we have, it'll be a challenge.
[12:15] Coffin pond will be the last of the three ice rinks
[12:17] that we will try to get open.
[12:19] That's, again, that's the hardest one.
[12:21] We've managed to get that one open for a few weeks last year.
[12:24] But that one's the biggest challenge
[12:25] due to drainage, where the water keeps on draining,
[12:28] even with ice on top.
[12:32] I don't have that one.
[12:34] OK, it's a G5 one.
[12:37] But that's about it for the operations wise.
[12:39] Again, I just ask everyone that's listening home
[12:41] and watching that please have patience with us.
[12:44] We have to get our obligations done for our sidewalks
[12:48] and our parking lots.
[12:49] And then we'll move on to grooming and make it these ice.
[12:53] So, Zalia.
[12:55] Any questions?
[12:57] Yeah, just one for Tom, are you going to try
[13:01] to publicize this little more broadly
[13:04] so that community is warned of what the limitations are?
[13:11] Yeah, we're not in a position right now to make an announcement, and one of the reasons that we're holding back is I'm kind of hesitant to do it until we have some measurable snow that we're confident is going to stay.
[13:25] But we will put something out on the website in the paper with respect to priority areas.
[13:34] areas. What's going to, I can tell you right now, we know we're going to work on the
[13:38] listeners' rank in the reason we're going to work on that as the highest priority.
[13:42] It's the one that's the easiest to maintain, to sustain ICE on, and it will extend longer
[13:49] than any other rank we maintain in the town. So given a shortage of resources, that's
[13:54] the one we will work on. It has lights, so we can extend the amount of time open for the
[13:59] public to skate. We're going to not open, and I don't know if you mentioned this because
[14:03] because I was talking to Pete, we're not going to open coffin ponds.
[14:07] We're not even going to attempt to make ice there this year.
[14:10] And we will tackle the mall if we get the right conditions for us to be able to do it,
[14:15] which would be significant measurable snow to help us bank it up and extend cold temperatures.
[14:22] But again, based on the number of people we have,
[14:26] that's really what's going to drive that decision at any given time.
[14:29] on the other side of the coin in terms of the trails.
[14:34] I think we will do a good job of maintaining them will once we get measurable snow.
[14:42] The problem's going to be people are going to see us getting to them a day or possibly too later than what we would in a year when we were fully staffed.
[14:51] And I know that that's going to create some concerns and some frustration.
[14:56] but I guess in one of my suggestions we haven't talked to.
[15:00] We can turn around about this, but we probably would reach out to Foxes and have a discussion with them because I know that they are probably one of the most effective everyday information sharing constituency groups when it comes to skiing in the community. As you know, you can look there any day in their posting conditions at a whole variety of locations beyond even the ones we maintain. So we will have that conversation, but I just think it's premature to have it right now.
[15:26] You know what I was talking about, just alerting the community to the staffing problems
[15:31] just to say, you know, because the first note comes if people don't realize how stressed
[15:37] the staffing is, you know, I guess we could do something on our own website will and we'll
[15:45] see how it goes.
[15:46] If it's really obvious that we're getting a lot of input we might turn to the newspapers
[15:51] or something, but I kind of want to gauge that, but I do think our own website is probably
[15:55] be the best tool to get information up quickly on what the plan is as we see it today.
[16:05] I know you have a question.
[16:07] Yeah, I think last year was a good show of the investment that the towns people have,
[16:14] especially for the mall rink, like people don't really tell us how much they appreciate things until
[16:19] we don't have them. And so I think last year showed because there was a lot of vocal
[16:25] talk that that ranked didn't happen.
[16:27] And so I'm curious if it's been discussed, and I think it was discussed a little bit last year.
[16:33] But forward thinking in this year, it's probably not feasible because it's already December.
[16:38] But especially with the mall rank, it has there been discussion in reaching out to like the downtown
[16:44] association or other businesses or entities within the town to rather than having that be a snowbank
[16:52] dependent rank because if we're completely dependent on heavy snowpack to have that be a functional
[16:57] rank, whether it's, and I know there's a discussion of flutter and a lot flud, liner,
[17:03] you know, we could go on for a long time about how to make an outdoor rank and what's fast and
[17:08] whatever. But if, if flooding is the thing and you need snow banks to do that, and if say we have
[17:15] a cold winter but not snow, if that's going to prevent us having a ring down there, doing boards
[17:20] or something of that sort, through donations, or has there been any sort of discussion with that?
[17:24] Because it seems like that's a really key kind of piece of the quaintness of the town.
[17:29] And so I'm wondering if there's other alternative methods for us to look forward
[17:34] to potentially make the rank work on the mall in future, not dependent on snow.
[17:41] Because it seemed to be what was the biggest issue last year, correct?
[17:43] It was a big issue last year, but I will tell you, Emily, we've been doing this for decades,
[17:50] and our people are very good at what they do.
[17:53] And we've also been juggling another side of the coin, which is the negative impacts
[17:59] on the mall, which gets used another 10 months of the year or nine months of the year,
[18:04] where people expect it to have good quality grass for all of the events it supports.
[18:10] We would never put a liner on the mall.
[18:12] liners work well. That is a very large area, not that it can't be done, but what it does
[18:18] is it deprives the roots of all the grasses there of oxygen. At least if you just
[18:26] encumber it with snow and ice, it doesn't have the degree of winter kill that it does when
[18:32] you put a line around that. So if we put a line around it and we had ice on it all winter,
[18:37] When we went to take it off in the spring, there would be no grass coming back at all.
[18:43] And we would have to basically close that area for a significant period of time to either
[18:48] sort it, which we did one year.
[18:50] I forget now eight or ten years ago to the two and a twelve thousand dollars.
[18:55] That's how much it cost to sort that rink area, that one year we did it.
[18:59] We broadcast seated, we've sliced seated, we've done a number of different treatments there
[19:03] other years to make it less expensive to bring the grass back, but I would never suggest
[19:09] we put a liner on that space.
[19:11] The other problem with that space, it's direct sunlight all the time.
[19:15] That's one of the advantages of listeners.
[19:18] It's kind of down over a side hill and there's a lot of mature trees on that side hill, so
[19:24] it's protected from the sun during the most intense periods of the day when the sun is the strongest
[19:29] in the winter.
[19:29] And that's one of the reasons why that's so successful.
[19:34] I know John's on, John and I talked to the council a couple years ago about this.
[19:39] John actually made a recommendation.
[19:41] We weren't going to do a rink on the mall anymore because of the challenges that that presents.
[19:47] The decision by the council was made to do otherwise and given the changing climate
[19:56] And what we've observed there, you know, 15 to 25 years ago, we consistently had ice there at Christmas.
[20:04] Pretty much every Christmas you could guarantee you could go skate on that mall and
[20:08] pretty much skate on it through February vacation when we close it at the conclusion of the vacation.
[20:14] We haven't seen those conditions where that ring has been open for
[20:19] Christmas vacation period for well more than 10 years.
[20:24] I don't know the last time that that occurred.
[20:26] Last year, I think the reason it was so difficult in terms of the community response is it was mid-January before we had any consistent snow.
[20:39] And when we didn't have the snow, even if we would have had a liner, we didn't have the temperatures, it was so mild.
[20:47] That's, so we make some conscious decisions about whether we're going to invest our time
[20:52] and effort at that location.
[20:56] The bigger issue is, you know, our mall management plan told us it's the most highly valued
[21:01] public space we have in the community and how we manage it on a year-round basis so that
[21:07] it's a high quality for all the various user types.
[21:11] We have some trade-offs.
[21:12] We have some decisions we have to make.
[21:14] If the council told us, go put a liner out there, I think that's what it would take.
[21:20] But it's not an easily solved issue, and we've had a lot of people call us and say, hey,
[21:25] I've got a liner in my backyard, and I'm skating right now.
[21:28] How come you don't have this on the mall?
[21:30] It's not the same.
[21:32] There's all kinds of conditions that are different depending upon the location and the size of that area.
[21:37] I mean, we could probably put a small rank on there, but I don't think that would fulfill people's expectations
[21:42] nor their desires for what they want to see at the mall for our speeding surface.
[21:47] That could be wrong, but that's not the feedback we've traditionally gotten.
[21:52] People like that location because of the size.
[21:56] And they can go there and have room if it's, you know, there are a lot of other people there.
[22:00] And we know listeners is a particularly, it's discourages families from going there
[22:06] because they're concerned they may encounter a number of, you know,
[22:10] So teens are adults playing hockey, and that's why we have the time frames we have for certain groups to be there and not be there.
[22:21] I don't know if anybody else wants to comment on this.
[22:25] Yeah, I've heard about, you know, kind of the 15 years that I've been here, I spent probably first half of those with the BDA kind of on mall events.
[22:38] And then kind of the second half of been on the
[22:40] Reck commission and the mall just gets so much
[22:43] pressure, you know, from all corners of the community.
[22:47] So and I think if you were to vote, I think people would
[22:49] vote to keep it as green as possible for the nine months
[22:52] that it is green, right?
[22:54] Even though the rank is so cool when it's there,
[22:56] we just don't get that many skating days on it anymore.
[23:00] I wonder, you know, I've often wondered about the upper mall
[23:03] as an alternative, you know, take the pressure off the lower
[23:06] mall, which is, you know, we've got to preserve it for those concerts.
[23:09] It's got to be lush and I think I think it was sorted more recently than, you know, you've
[23:14] probably done it.
[23:15] No, a number of times.
[23:16] We've sorted it in the most recent year, the last few years, but it's been very isolated
[23:21] and it's been in the high intensity uses of the market, not the skating area.
[23:25] And then we just went through, you know, the trampling of the other side with the, you know,
[23:28] the farmer's market, which is key downtown as well.
[23:30] So we've had to, so it just gets so much pressure.
[23:33] It's hard to, and it's kind of a sacred place,
[23:37] so we've talked about volunteers,
[23:38] but that's tricky because you don't want to,
[23:41] it's such a high, you know, people could mess it up as well.
[23:45] I love the thought of skating downtown.
[23:47] I've always thought, well, what if we just bump it
[23:49] to the upper mall?
[23:50] And is that an option?
[23:51] And maybe you're right, maybe we just need,
[23:53] you know, in years like, you know,
[23:54] in a normal year when you have staffing,
[23:56] that's probably not so hard to maintain,
[23:58] but maybe we get ahead, and maybe the staffing issues
[24:00] are here for the next three years,
[24:02] and we get ahead of it, and we just kind of mobilize and start looking at another alternative
[24:06] that keeps it downtown.
[24:07] Well, and I'm also saying too, like if with the snow issue that we've had the last
[24:14] couple of years, and not necessarily saying boards and liner, but if it's just to contain,
[24:22] like if we have the cold weather, and it's that we just can't contain the water, because
[24:26] we don't have the snow to bank it, even just putting like two by twelves around the outline
[24:30] line, and whether that's on the upper mall or the lower mall or just kind of alternative thoughts on how to
[24:37] somehow do that. But obviously, if you already stretch then in staffing, then
[24:42] obviously that's a concern. But I agree, if the lower mall is not
[24:49] appropriate. So let me just share this too, Emily, because I think it's helpful to let you know.
[24:54] So, if we did the boards, because we've looked at these issues for years and years and years.
[25:02] The boards really don't help us unless there's solid frost of a significant depth in the ground or we lose all the water.
[25:09] The other thing is that a lot of people don't know, there's some significant storm drains that are right under that area.
[25:17] So we're fighting that as well, when the water is percolating down it's almost being encouraged because you've got flow right there designed to take that water away.
[25:28] So there's a lot of challenges with that space but Dennis just whispered in my ear that even with the boards we still need significant frost in the ground to hold the water from percolating down through into the storm drain system.
[25:43] Yeah, I think having made ice for 15 years for my kids, I think the liners more valuable than the boards and the liner with boards is what you kind of need and where do you put that that's not going to kind of my yard doesn't look great where that ring goes.
[26:00] You know, so it takes a lot of maintenance just to hold that after you pull your wrink
[26:04] out. So it's just those are the those are the trade-offs and the checks and balances. I mean, it's just it's just a lot that goes into it.
[26:12] And we hear we kind of hear it every year.
[26:15] But, you know, you're right, it's so nostalgic when we do get those skating days and nothing that beats it downtown.
[26:20] Yeah, it just seems because last year was the first year I think that it hasn't been there and would you say like 47 years or something?
[26:25] long time. And so it was such a large public outcry that when something goes away then you hear
[26:33] how valued it is and so the discussions were started again this fall like hey what's going
[26:40] to happen this year. So I think even just putting it out there that it is the intention of to try
[26:45] to is a positive so that so the people know that it's still something that we're trying to do there
[26:53] There are these limitations, and obviously we can't control the weather, we can't control nature, we can't control that right now, the staffing piece.
[27:01] So if all those things fell in line, it sounds like the intention would be to attempt to do it.
[27:08] And I think that that's a positive thing for people to know that it's not the intention to not do it.
[27:15] It's, that's a secondary unfortunate side effect of the way things are right now.
[27:20] So I think that gives good that it's valuable for you back to be able to give back to the people if they ask.
[27:25] Where's the wrink on them all?
[27:27] Well, it's because we don't have enough staff, we don't have appropriate weather, so we can say these things.
[27:32] It's not just.
[27:33] I'd like to say one other thing while we're on this topic and we're probably going to talk about a little later on the agenda under another topic.
[27:40] But I do think we ought to take every opportunity we can to kind of take the temperature of the community and
[27:46] opportunities like this were on our TV, to kind of float the idea so people can start to give us some feedback about the site next to the rec center, potentially being a location where we could install an outdoor rank that would be a refrigerated rank, which would guarantee us to have scalable ice consistently over several months during the winter.
[28:12] If we were to do that, my recommendation is we would no longer do a rank downtown on the mall.
[28:19] If we could have skatable ice consistent for a three month, four month period of time,
[28:24] that should be where we concentrate our maintenance efforts and keep it open to the public.
[28:29] And we wouldn't, even in years when we're not successful on the mall,
[28:34] we invest tremendous hours that you don't necessarily see unless you see how often we're out there,
[28:41] trying to make ice at all hours of the day and night, and sometimes it doesn't result in more than a few days or a week and a half over an entire winter season of skating but we've invested tremendous manpower and hours in trying to make it work.
[28:59] And I think an artificial sheet as part of something that might happen out at the landing would be something the community could depend on and we could have skating from late November through
[29:09] to, you know, some per period of March consistently every year.
[29:13] So just something for the community to be aware
[29:16] that's being discussed as part of this March project.
[29:20] Yeah, I mean, I know with a ring with a liner,
[29:22] you can have two days of rain and not lose your ice.
[29:25] That ice is gone on the mall.
[29:27] If you've got to be skating on a Sunday,
[29:30] and by Wednesday, there's no ice, there's no water.
[29:33] Yeah, we've had ice for three weeks at my house on our,
[29:36] so. Yeah, yeah, so you can once you have that block,
[29:38] It refrigerates itself and holds, even if you're refrigerating it on those warmer days.
[29:47] There will be some cold days where you don't have to turn refrigeration on.
[29:51] It would help.
[29:52] I know that there's challenges in doing that outdoor refrigerated ice here too.
[29:57] That's no guarantee, but it's an interesting concept.
[30:00] I think it's definitely, we're going to talk more about it. We've heard a lot of feedback on it, just in public engagement through the mark process. So it's definitely worth looking at. And the last thing I just wanted to bring up about it is the natural size of the ring that we had down town on the mall is roughly 70 feet wide by 300 feet long. Trying to get a liner on that was the huge. And then you want a water that would take the takes to get that is cis tremendous. Well, I think the discussion point on that would be if that was the way that it
[30:29] It went, it would obviously have to downsize to something manageable, feasible to with that.
[30:38] I had one other question that may be delving into like not a topic for the conversation for this,
[30:45] but it was based on what you were saying as far as the parks and rec responsibilities as far as town,
[30:53] roads and public, what normally would kind of be seen as public works.
[30:56] And this may be more of a town council kind of question, or maybe me just becoming more better educated about it, as far as if
[31:03] If the parks and rack is under staff to the point where it is, and all of these other kind of
[31:09] Town type entity public works type things are in responsibilities of the parks and rack department is that a
[31:16] imbalanced mismatch there with with those things are you know is the
[31:21] Is there a way to put those responsibilities back to public works for
[31:25] or sidewalks and things like that off of parks and rack.
[31:30] I guess the way I would answer that question would be we have been making headway
[31:38] in terms of increasing staffing in the maintenance end of our operations.
[31:44] So we've added a few positions in the last four years to Dennis's staff in terms of maintenance workers.
[31:51] and that's been in direct response to the additional lands that the Council's
[31:58] voted to take on that have been put under our responsibility trails and so
[32:03] on so forth but I think Emily to your point and I know John's on here he may or
[32:10] may not want to speak to this but I think when we look at priorities of the
[32:16] town and within the resources we have available, we try to make the best use of those resources.
[32:26] And when it comes to storm, we've been doing this for, I don't know how many years, maybe
[32:31] John can remember it better than I, but it's been, I want to say, more than 10, that we've
[32:39] been, we were assigned the sidewalks around schools because with the towns, complement
[32:46] of public works, employees and equipment, there was a time where school routes and roads
[32:52] were taking too long to get cleared. And that's when the manager at the time was asked to
[33:00] address the issue and we essentially had the assignment given to us that you're now going
[33:07] to take on 10 miles of sidewalks, and the public work still has a sidewalk route in addition to what we do.
[33:13] We just do the one that is in the neighborhood surrounding the schools, but those are our priorities
[33:20] after a storm because we want to get the kids safely to school. I don't know, John, if you want to make
[33:25] any comment along those lines saying that you're with us. I would just echo what you said. I mean,
[33:31] it's a matter of total resources among the town and when that decision was made it was more than 10
[33:37] years ago it was precisely because what you described the public works didn't have adequate staff
[33:43] in order to get schools open and unfortunately what was happening and I don't know fortunately
[33:48] or unfortunately but you know we'd have some of our parks and rec facilities and parks parking lots
[33:55] open before school roots were open and that didn't make a lot of sense. So to do this kind
[34:04] of sharing of resources, you know, as Tom said, we have added some people in parks and
[34:10] rack. We've added some equipment now that we didn't use to have a public works, but still for,
[34:16] when we have winter storm, we are just understaffed to be able to meet the expectations that people have.
[34:22] And I'm not saying they're unrealistic.
[34:24] I mean, certainly around the schools,
[34:26] expect those to be open a day after the snowfall.
[34:29] And that wasn't happening before,
[34:31] and at least it's happening now.
[34:33] But yeah, I mean, as we acquire property and responsibilities,
[34:37] we're gonna need more staff and more equipment.
[34:39] But right now, we kind of depend on each other.
[34:43] Parks and Rec and public works
[34:44] to do the most important sidewalks first.
[34:49] So, it's where we're at right now.
[34:53] So, I mean, most people don't know that that happens.
[34:56] You know, when you're in a budget time, most people don't know that parks and records build that role.
[35:01] But they see that the rent that the mall doesn't have ice.
[35:04] Exactly.
[35:04] They don't know that those guys are out on school sidewalks.
[35:07] Right.
[35:07] So, it's just, you get to what you can get to, really.
[35:11] And this year isn't especially due to challenge with the labor shortage.
[35:14] So, it's going to be worse this year.
[35:19] I guess the take home message to Will's point is we'll do the best job we can and I'm kind of looking at Sabrina as kind of an added responsibility.
[35:27] We will make an every effort to update the website daily on what the conditions, well, the conditions are done pretty regularly.
[35:36] But when the maintenance practices might take place at the different ranks in trail systems, we haven't been able to give that kind of information on the daily basis.
[35:47] but we'll make it a priority to update that daily and just direct people who have questions
[35:53] to the website and then obviously they can call us.
[35:57] I was going to say but also as a combined effort just to make the community aware of the
[36:02] labor shortage and it might have a, it might cut both ways in that sort of to publicize
[36:07] that these jobs are available and what they do and, you know, that's a valid point, that's
[36:14] a good point.
[36:18] Dennis, I think that's it, thank you.
[36:24] Next on a new business B is proposed changes to the Recreation Impact Feed Ordnance,
[36:29] and we are graced by the town manager John Eldridge tonight to take that one on.
[36:35] You're welcome.
[36:36] Thank you, Michael.
[36:38] It's quite an introduction.
[36:41] Just going to, the short version of this is, nothing is substantially changing.
[36:46] what we have now are two ordinances, the zoning ordinance which contains reference to impact fees and
[36:53] specifically the recreation impact fees. And then we have our municipal code of ordinances which has an
[36:59] impact fee section which contains every other impact fee other than recreation impact fees.
[37:07] So what we're trying to do is move all the fees to one ordinance and the appropriate place for that to be is in the
[37:15] municipal code of ordinances. So our intention is to remove the language from the zoning
[37:21] ordinance and pretty much duplicate it in the municipal code where it would reside again
[37:31] with other impact fees. And there's a couple of reasons why there's a consistent place
[37:36] for impact fees and quite frankly the other is is that at some point we need to look comprehensively
[37:42] impact fees to see, you can't
[37:46] let me impact fee for everything on every want.
[37:49] So I think it, putting them in one place gives the ability to take a look and say, you know,
[37:55] as this one appropriate, is that one appropriate on a more comprehensive basis.
[38:00] And the reason the, the reason the, the wreck impact fee wound up being as extensively outlined as it
[38:07] is in the zoning ordinance is because it was the only one that was actually
[38:13] reviewed, and I took several years, I remember I told them to come up with how it worked
[38:20] and how it was going to be levied, I mean, anyway, to make a long story short, the intention
[38:27] here is just to move impact fees related to the wreck department, the wreck impact fees
[38:32] from the zoning ordinance into the municipal code with all the other impact fees.
[38:36] So the planning board is involved with it because anything that has to do with zoning requires a planning board recommendation.
[38:48] That's statutory, made statute.
[38:50] So to remove that from the zoning ordinance, we have to have a recommendation from the planning board.
[38:58] We being the town council doesn't mean that the council has to follow the recommendation of the playing board
[39:04] Just ask the request one for the planning board
[39:08] No one else is required to to weigh in but we wanted to make sure the people knew
[39:13] Again, what was happening here and the the intention to move the fees all to one ordinance
[39:22] Okay, happy to answer any questions any questions?
[39:30] I have one I'd uh
[39:32] I had a question in a comment and the question refers to, you know, the zoning, the rewrite that went, you know, took place a few years ago.
[39:41] So we went through this, I think that was just the zoning rewrite, right, not the municipal ordinance, but just the zoning, the planning side.
[39:50] And question, you know, at that point, you know, it wasn't moved in, and is there any reason why it would have made, you know, why does it make more sense to do it now when we had all these consultants telling us we needed the rewrite, the ordinance then.
[40:03] And then I think we had planning decisions in assisting us on how to rewrite, you know,
[40:10] the wreck impact fee itself because it was confusing how it was calculated.
[40:14] It kind of put undue pressure on downtown properties where the tax value was, valuations
[40:21] were higher.
[40:23] So I'm just kind of curious, we'd been through those two processes within the last eight years
[40:27] and, you know, why we didn't, why are we doing it now and we didn't do it then?
[40:33] Sure.
[40:33] Happy to address that, Mike.
[40:37] The calculation and methodologies is a separate question from where the fee resides.
[40:44] There was no matter where that fee resided, whether it be in the zoning ordinance or the
[40:48] municipal code, we would have had it gone through that exercise for exactly the reasons that
[40:53] you stated in terms of the methodology and how it would be levied and handled and all that
[40:58] kind of thing.
[40:59] It wound up in the zoning ordinance because that was the only reference at that time that we had in any ordinance related to impact fees.
[41:12] We had other impact fees that weren't as well articulated in terms of their application.
[41:20] So I was only probably two years ago, maybe three, that we created a separate impact fee
[41:29] ordinance and put all the other ones except the wreck impact fee into that new ordinance.
[41:37] Quite frankly, we should have done it at the same time.
[41:40] the issue he was at the time was that the wreck impactful because it was done in the zoning process
[41:51] and it was the only one that was really done in the zoning process is intertwined in several
[41:56] places in the zoning process or in the zoning order. So we wanted to make sure if we were going
[42:01] to remove it that we did it correctly and we just didn't do it at that point in time. We said we
[42:08] need to go back and again, way to the zoning ordinance itself got in place so we would know which
[42:13] pieces we were going to remove from it to move them. Much the same way that we did with road
[42:20] standards, road standards used to be in the zoning ordinance as well. They're now in a separate ordinance
[42:26] in the municipal code and it just takes a little bit of effort when it's intertwined like that to pull
[42:32] those out. Like say, the other impact fees were never intertwined in the ordinance the way the
[42:37] But the wreck impact fee appears to be.
[42:40] And there's references in the zoning ordinance that says, go to the muni ordinance to find information on wreck impact fees.
[42:48] So it makes a ton of sense to me to consolidate it so people can go to one place and see what the impacts are.
[42:58] One suggestion, but I know it's not a town.
[43:01] The other missing pieces and I think it still exists is the sewer impact fee.
[43:05] and I'm not sure that the town ordinance,
[43:07] whether it's in the zoning ordinance
[43:08] or the muni ordinance, it even has to mention it,
[43:11] because the sewer district has its own entity, right?
[43:14] Right, yeah, let's just be clear about it.
[43:16] We have no authority over the sewer district ordinance.
[43:19] There are separate legal entity quasi municipal cooperation.
[43:22] Yeah.
[43:23] They've levied their own entrance fees and charges,
[43:26] and unfortunately we don't have any real say in that.
[43:30] But you're right, there was a rather,
[43:32] there was certainly impact development,
[43:34] and it would be nice to coordinate those.
[43:39] And I think we'll have that conversation at some point
[43:42] with the suitors, because again, as I said,
[43:44] it'd be nice to everybody to have an impact fee
[43:46] for everything, I think, except that the cumulative effect
[43:50] of that may not be what the town wants.
[43:53] Yeah, and I think the planning office does a good job
[43:55] of letting people know that that also exists,
[43:58] if someone gets that far with the planning office.
[44:02] My only other comment was I just noticed
[44:03] that it looked like there's a lit in the wording that you know there's more it's kind of more
[44:13] pressure on the executive director with regard to wreck impact fees where in the current version
[44:23] it's the commission that seems to make decisions and now it's more like the executive director makes
[44:28] the decisions and in consultation with the
[44:32] recognition and I'm not necessarily
[44:36] advocating for us to you know it's not a
[44:38] power play I don't really care that way
[44:40] but I just I was curious I thought it
[44:41] always kind of gave the executive
[44:43] director a little cover in that there are
[44:45] five people on this board you know
[44:47] because we see good we see good we see
[44:50] good plans and we see bad plans where
[44:54] and and sometimes you have to make a big
[44:57] tough group decisions say that plan's not good enough.
[45:00] That's not a good enough deal for the town. What you're proposing isn't comparable, you know, to what the fee would be for the department. So I just, it's just kind of a comment. It's a question I'm curious. You know, it's, is that a better way to handle it or, or, you know, it's one thing when you have a director that's got 40 years of experience. You know, the commission, I think 100% of the time we're going to take his lead on it. But if you have a director that's brand new
[45:29] and young and doesn't have all the institutional knowledge,
[45:34] it's nice for that person to be able to draft
[45:36] by and to commission if that makes any sense.
[45:39] No, I think I follow what you're saying.
[45:42] Again, one of the things that we're trying to do
[45:44] is bring some consistency.
[45:47] And I don't know how much of that we actually changed.
[45:49] Obviously, on a wreck impact for you there
[45:51] be some input from the wreck department.
[45:54] But again, ultimately, one of the reasons
[45:56] for putting them in one ordinance
[45:58] is so that whoever the granting authority is or reviewing authority is looking at comprehensively
[46:07] instead of having a number of independent board just saying I want mine, I want mine, I want mine.
[46:15] That was kind of the idea that at some point there's a coordination of effort and in some cases
[46:25] some of the impact fees that are going to apply to some kinds of development aren't
[46:31] even going to apply to what the rec fees cover, so they're not going to be an overlap.
[46:36] But particularly with residential, I mean, you find a lot of overlap with residential
[46:42] development, and this is always a concern about, I think you might have been alluding to this
[46:47] a little bit about what the impact is on that in terms of affordability for housing and
[46:53] other issue. So, again, I think that's why the thought was to put them in one place and
[47:00] have a more cohesive policy and review. Does that mean that it's more of the review
[47:08] falls on the planning board?
[47:12] Well, again, it depends on how, you know,
[47:15] again, in the ordinance, it says who the licensing authority is. I mean, in most of the development,
[47:20] and it's going to be the planning board.
[47:23] So again, we're just trying to lay it out there
[47:26] so that it's clear to a developer and clear to whoever
[47:29] the reviewing authority is.
[47:31] And again, most of those cases, the reviewing authority
[47:33] is going to be the planning board,
[47:35] because they're going to be subdivisions or site plans
[47:37] or that type of thing.
[47:39] But there are potential impact fees.
[47:41] It would have nothing to do with the planning board
[47:43] that may get levied just on a building permit basis.
[47:47] And, you know, so, ultimately, as I said, you know, the process should be pretty much the same as it is now is that the planning board would consider those in the review of the project and then would get input from the various,
[48:02] I don't want to call them constituencies, but different boards.
[48:07] But again, I'll be levied under that particular ordinance.
[48:12] So, I guess, John, to kind of take a crack at what Mike is saying, and I think that I'm just not here in the answer, I think that maybe you're looking for Mike, and I don't want to speak for you, but the issue is pretty cut and dried, you know, historically before we amended the ordinance in 2016, I think it was when we went through this process, you referred to Mike.
[48:40] We updated the methodology and what we had been experiencing since the late 80s was the
[48:49] language was not strong enough and the recognition found itself many times hearing proposals
[48:57] from developers where because the language wasn't tighter stronger they would take lands
[49:06] that couldn't be developed, did we lose him?
[49:12] He heard enough.
[49:15] Well, I guess for the benefit of Emily,
[49:18] what I was saying, John, is back in the 80s under the old ordinance that was first created in 88.
[49:25] We would get a lot of developers that would come forward and say,
[49:28] geez, we've got a detention fawn that will make a wonderful skating ring.
[49:32] And we've met our obligation under the ordinance to meet the recreation requirement.
[49:35] And the recognition would say, no, we don't need to take on another rent.
[49:41] We don't need to take on the liability of a rent that's got water beneath it, and so on, so forth.
[49:46] And we would go through this kind of wrangling for a lack of a better term to arrive at a solution.
[49:54] And when it was rewritten in 16, given the fact that we knew the base and all the conveyances were coming,
[50:01] we knew we needed funds to develop facilities.
[50:05] We didn't need any more land, we needed the funds.
[50:08] So the ordinance was redrafted to require
[50:14] that they make a fee contribution based on the number
[50:18] of bedrooms in units.
[50:21] And only under five or six other conditions could the
[50:25] recognition even consider accepting land, which had to meet
[50:30] one of these six, a key connection in a trail quarter was one.
[50:34] There were six different items that the recognition could have considered instead of the fee except this because it's a critical connection that we want to make.
[50:45] And the reviews got much and much less before the recognition because the developers would submit their applications and they would look at their options and they would determine that the fee is the only option in our case because we can't meet any of these.
[50:59] So it made it a lot, it consumed a lot less time here, but when it came here in those instances
[51:07] where there was a decision to be made about whether this meets one of those six litmus
[51:11] tests to have a fee waiver, it was the recommissions vote and with a recommendation for me before
[51:21] the vote that would then get sent on to the planning board for their consideration.
[51:26] And the way the language has been redrafted is for that just to be reversed.
[51:31] With input from the recognition, the recreation director will make that recommendation to the
[51:36] planning board.
[51:37] And I think that was really what you were getting at.
[51:40] We've seen some cases that are just, you know, it puts, it's kind of awkward.
[51:44] They're just terrible recommendations that don't even come close to, you know, meeting the
[51:49] needs of the ordinance.
[51:51] And, you know, you kind of need a body of people to tell that person's like, you got to do better, you know, and I think it's hard sometimes to just put it all on one person to say, no, that doesn't cut it, you know, I'll talk to my, I can see, I can see where it puts the director in a funny spot.
[52:06] I will just add this to the conversation, because I think it's fair to say, I have no problem being put in that position just so it's not an issue that,
[52:14] that I want it that way or I don't want it that way.
[52:19] If it's that way, that's fine.
[52:21] That's way we'll administer it.
[52:22] But that was Mike's question, John.
[52:25] And,
[52:29] you know, it won't, you know, it's pretty tough
[52:33] for any development to pitch kind of an open space,
[52:37] you know, create recreation that's gonna live up
[52:40] to our standards.
[52:41] They're not gonna make, you know,
[52:42] it's really hard to hit that litmus test.
[52:44] It's got to be a really, you know, you're doing an amazing, you know, connection to waterfronts or, you know, it's got to be something really substantial and most people don't come close to meeting that, but it seems like everyone comes through and pitches, you know, I'm going to create a trail of the bus stop and I don't want to pay recreation, please, you know, and it's just not quite, you know, enough.
[53:09] I mean, that is true, but I guess I would point out.
[53:14] I think, you know, there's a history to this, and you're all familiar with it, those
[53:19] of us have been here a little bit, but, you know, I think what happened with the development
[53:25] of the methodology is you eliminated a lot of that wrangling and negotiating and pushing
[53:31] and pull and all that other stuff that used to go on about.
[53:36] So again, there's a difference between, I think,
[53:37] I don't think we're substantially changing
[53:39] the purpose or the methodology of the B, which
[53:45] was the bigger problem, not where it sat.
[53:48] That was the problem, was how the fee was calculated,
[53:51] how it was levied, how it could negotiate, all that other stuff.
[53:56] That was the bigger problem with the fee,
[53:57] not the fact that it was in the zoning ordinance
[53:59] or in the municipal code or someplace else.
[54:02] So the big work, the big lift has been, it was that,
[54:06] and that's taken care of.
[54:09] Again, essentially what we're trying to do,
[54:10] is just move the language over now
[54:13] to the municipal code.
[54:15] And I would say, you know, if anyone wants to know
[54:17] about the problems, the one other one
[54:19] that I remember talking quite specifically was,
[54:22] there were times when developers paid no fee
[54:24] because there was no agreement on what the heck
[54:26] the fee would be.
[54:27] And so they've never got levied and you know that wasn't good either, but I think with the work
[54:34] that was done by Tom and others to develop the methodology and lay it out there and you know
[54:40] we're in a better position than we were before when there was you know this negotiated kind of thing.
[54:48] So I guess to bring you to a point of considered to consider, the memo I put in your packets today
[54:56] that I got from the planning director, kind of summarized what was presented to the
[55:01] planning board last night. So they voted, as I understand it, a set of public hearing
[55:06] to do what is being recommended. So you could do nothing, or you could take a vote to inform
[55:17] the planning board that you concur with moving, none of the language with the exception of
[55:24] This swap in roles is going to change.
[55:29] It's just where it resides.
[55:30] It's still going to be referenced in the zoning ordinance.
[55:33] There's going to be a recreation requirement section in the ordinance that's going to say for further details each after 20 in the municipal code.
[55:42] But so it's still going to be a requirement that's going to be identified in the zoning ordinance.
[55:48] So I think the planning board's probably going to ask the planning director, what does
[55:54] the recognition take about this idea?
[55:56] So I do think it's important that you consider taking an action tonight, upper down on supporting
[56:04] this.
[56:05] And I would recommend, you know, with the exception of the change in whose responsible for
[56:13] conveying the recommendation, that's the only thing that's different.
[56:16] that's being contemplated.
[56:19] So my recommendation is if you're okay with that change
[56:24] in roles, which if you're not, that's fine too,
[56:28] but I think that's the stickling point.
[56:31] The only, from my perspective, that's the only thing
[56:33] that would hold me up if I were in your shoes
[56:36] as to whether or not this, because it's not going
[56:39] to make any meaningful difference
[56:40] in how the fees assessed, it's not.
[56:44] Does anyone else have any questions?
[56:47] I have one question, and this, again, it's just to educate myself, the way that fee is calculated and
[56:55] understanding that this fee is not changing, calculation isn't changing, and this seems like this has been in place since what 2016 or 2018.
[57:03] But when things like this come up, now people will maybe draw attention to it where they haven't previously.
[57:10] I'm just curious, why a mobile home and a mobile home park has a higher impact fee than a four bedroom house?
[57:19] Why is that, is that some national, is that a planning director that they're drawing a calculation somewhere?
[57:28] There's a lot of factors in the methodology that are taken into consideration, and one of them is density,
[57:33] one of them is land value, there's a whole number of factors.
[57:36] So, you know, typically a single family home is going to occupy a lot less square footage.
[57:42] I mean, it's going to occupy a lot more, and a mobile home is going to occupy a lot less.
[57:49] Yeah, on an acre, that's 64 people on an acre, whereas an acre of a typical house is a lot less.
[57:55] You know, so you can put a lot more people in theory, you know, in a trailer, in an acre of land,
[58:00] in a more dwelling units, or more beds.
[58:02] So is that fee based off of the acreage, or is that based off of the dwelling?
[58:10] But that's based off the individual taxpayer, correct, the impact fee?
[58:14] And it comes into, this is being discussed like in the comprehensive plan, piece two,
[58:19] because I sit over there as well.
[58:21] And so, impact fees have been a big discussion.
[58:24] And so it's just, it's an interesting thing to think about the way that impact fees
[58:31] effects different parts of town, and I'm just curious, like I was just curious with.
[58:35] But you know, in that one, that doesn't hit someone who's buying or leasing that trailer.
[58:39] That's hitting the developer on the trailer.
[58:41] The developer on, right, this is on, this is developer based only.
[58:46] So if, or if you were to be a person who purchased a plot of land and wants to build a house on that land,
[58:54] then you are then paying the impact fee at that time.
[58:57] Correct.
[58:57] This is not in other assessments of
[59:02] taxes, it's got to go through major development review.
[59:05] This is only during the planning of new construction.
[59:08] Or if you've also applied to someone building
[59:12] a single home.
[59:16] Right, but during the initial construction only of that,
[59:18] it's not a recurring.
[59:21] Correct.
[59:22] Right, correct.
[59:24] Thank you.
[59:26] So does anyone have the memo right in front of them and want to make a motion to endorse this for the planning board's consideration?
[59:38] I have it in front of me, but Mike, I thought you raised a really good question.
[59:42] I'm not sure I have a fully formed thought as to where it stands, you know, what makes the most sense.
[59:51] Yeah, on the just on the just the one who has the last director versus the right yeah who consults with who yes exactly
[1:00:00] Okay. Yeah. So if there's any more discussion that others have, I think that would be helpful for me, but I do have the memo in front of me. It stuck out to me as, you know,
[1:00:12] I can see how 99% of the time it's not going to, it's not going to operate any differently. You know, in my experience, in the cases we've seen, if there is a, if there's a, what I'm calling a bad application,
[1:00:30] Tom still comes to us and we all get to weigh in and say that we don't think that that
[1:00:35] is a quid, you know, it doesn't, doesn't meet our standard, you know.
[1:00:40] And so he may, he may tell that person that developer is like, I don't think it's going
[1:00:45] to cut it, but I'll bring it to the commission and then we all have a chance to weigh in.
[1:00:49] But it's just at the end of the day, he has to say with our consultation, it's not like
[1:00:54] we vote on it with him briefing us and so I think 99% I don't see it being a big issue.
[1:01:00] Breon, I just know that there have been some really bad applications where I'm sure he
[1:01:05] appreciated having the cover of five people saying that's a terrible, that's not even
[1:01:10] close to being what our standard is and you know I think we still have that opportunity
[1:01:14] to say that the way it's written.
[1:01:17] No I read Mike and I would also say that there's been far less times where this has occurred
[1:01:25] It happens very infrequently now where it used to be almost every meeting.
[1:01:29] When I first came on, it was dreaded when someone was come because it wasn't really nebulous.
[1:01:35] It wasn't written well and it was the weird calculation.
[1:01:40] It's been much better.
[1:01:42] Question, Eric?
[1:01:43] John.
[1:01:43] Oh, John's got his hand up.
[1:01:45] Yep.
[1:01:45] But yeah, no, you probably just said it, you know, my thoughts exactly, that is, you
[1:01:51] know, I can't imagine the wreck director is going to have a, a wreck commission that
[1:01:56] says we don't like this and then he's just going to say, well, that's tough.
[1:02:00] So I don't, you know, I think it's six to one half a dozen the other, honestly, you
[1:02:07] know, Tommy's not the go rogue kind of guy, and I can't imagine too many directors would
[1:02:11] be.
[1:02:12] I don't think we have an issue at all when it comes in charge of it.
[1:02:16] I guess, you know, Mike brought up the point, you know, if we're thinking of, okay,
[1:02:20] if we have someone else, does that person get exposed to a lot more political pressure,
[1:02:26] potentially from developers to accept the terms, right?
[1:02:32] Well, I think that maybe true, but whether or not you ultimately vote or you vote to recommend
[1:02:38] to do with the wreck director. I think that provides the cover, but I'll let you know, that's up to
[1:02:44] Tommy, I guess, to speak to that. But you know, one thing, if you weren't involved at all,
[1:02:50] and it was just advising you what his decision was, but I can't imagine that, I mean, we do this all
[1:02:56] the time when people don't like what we say, we'll say, well, you know, fine, we'll go to the
[1:03:01] For instance, we'll tell the council, but we're not going to recommend that.
[1:03:06] And, you know, I mean, to be again, it's probably the same outcome.
[1:03:11] You know, in that instance where, okay, everyone in the recognition wouldn't vote to approve this application.
[1:03:17] But the director still overrides us and says, yes, the commission could still go to planning board and say, you know, we don't, we as a group don't agree with this.
[1:03:27] You know, so there's still a process, there's still public comment, there's checks and balances in it the way it's written, I think.
[1:03:35] And I think it's just, you just have to know as a body that when you do have eventually a new director someday, way up,
[1:03:47] that, you know, we just have to have that person's back in these types of things, but I think it's, we see fewer and fewer of them because it's written better.
[1:03:56] And I think, you know, I'm kind of over, you know, I originally I had some concern, more concerns beyond, but I think for me, the consolidation and the efficiency and the kind of the control of the process overrides my concerns.
[1:04:13] Thank you.
[1:04:14] Yeah, do you have anything? Well, you're good.
[1:04:18] Well, it's got a girl's hockey game on his mind.
[1:04:23] All right, so we need to we need a motion from someone to make a recommendation to the
[1:04:28] planning board to move the memo on. I just don't know how to say it. I don't have it right
[1:04:31] front of me. Well, I might suggest one for your consideration.
[1:04:35] Thank you.
[1:04:36] The commission supports the proposed moving of the recreation impact fee methodology from the zoning ordinance to the municipal code of ordinances consistent with the planning board, planning department's memo of December 9, 2021.
[1:05:00] one. Does anyone want to make that motion? Thank you, Will. Seconded by Eric. All those in favor?
[1:05:11] It's unanimous.
[1:05:15] Thanks, John. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, board. You're going to stick around
[1:05:19] for Sabrina's inauguration. I want a little bit. Absolutely. This is Sabrina's first
[1:05:26] first out of the box, right? So this will be good. I'm not going to miss that.
[1:05:31] It was my first time on the bus, just my first time here on the bus.
[1:05:35] I'm sure it was a really big thing.
[1:05:38] I think that's where we're at in the agenda.
[1:05:43] So, Sabrina, you're up.
[1:05:45] Awesome.
[1:05:47] All right, so included in the agenda packet,
[1:05:50] you will find the program update that I've been able to put together.
[1:05:57] Most of these programs with updated numbers
[1:06:00] are winter related but at the very end there is a section that said done.
[1:06:04] I want to make sure that we recap some of the ones that was prior to my arrival with October and November.
[1:06:09] And obviously we had a very successful trunk retreat and
[1:06:12] the 54th annual ski and skate stale staff did an amazing job still putting together
[1:06:19] a well robust offering of programs and keeping the wheels running prior to my arrival and
[1:06:25] me trying to get caught up to speed as well.
[1:06:28] So a big kudos to them, a few changes that I just wanted to point out through this report.
[1:06:34] The loss valley learned to ski and so forth.
[1:06:37] We actually have 30 kids registered for that, it says zero in there, we actually have 30, which is great.
[1:06:43] It was about 27 skiers and three snowboarders, so that was a good breakdown.
[1:06:51] Overall, we have about 28 teams in our youth basketball league.
[1:06:58] A quick break down.
[1:06:59] We have six in the third and fourth grade for boys.
[1:07:01] For third and fourth grade girls, we have four teams.
[1:07:04] The five, six boys have eight teams, which is a really good number.
[1:07:08] And we have six teams going on in the fifth and sixth grade girls.
[1:07:11] So again, we have really good numbers, which I think a lot of other communities around us are struggling
[1:07:17] to get people back in to participate, whereas ours are showing to be pretty strong, so that's a really good sign.
[1:07:25] The pickable numbers, I just want you to note that those totals were from September 30th to December 7th.
[1:07:32] We didn't have time to go through and tally everything yet, so hopefully by the next report I'll have a complete fiscal year.
[1:07:38] So from July 1 to our current date, when our January meeting is, I'll have a better presentation on that one for the numbers.
[1:07:48] It's just some highlights that I also put in there is that we were able to work with the school department for the seventh day for a boy's program.
[1:07:55] Anyone that was not selected for the school team, the school agreed to pay for their fee to participate in our program, which was great.
[1:08:05] A majority of the kids that were not selected had already registered, but there was a few that were not able to because of the fee challenge with their households.
[1:08:15] So that was a positive step in, you know, relationship and connection that we could work with the school department.
[1:08:20] It's always good to see all of us working together just to keep the kids playing and being active.
[1:08:25] So that was a really positive thing that I don't think I've ever seen in any other community.
[1:08:30] So I enjoyed that.
[1:08:33] The high school teams have invited some of our youth basketball teams to come and play at a half time
[1:08:41] of the basketball, boys and girls games.
[1:08:44] We had our sixth grade travel team play the other night,
[1:08:48] which got some really good videos.
[1:08:50] That was good to get the youth involved
[1:08:51] with the varsity level and vice versa.
[1:08:55] And then we did get a lot of interest
[1:08:58] with a high school league in the November time.
[1:09:01] So we decided we're going to press pause.
[1:09:04] And we're gonna try again in the February
[1:09:07] when the school team is done.
[1:09:08] We're hoping that we'll get a few more kids that will come out to really make up, you
[1:09:13] know, at least a 14-league and make it worth it for everyone to make it fun.
[1:09:17] But if not, we'll try and find something.
[1:09:19] I will say that there are plenty of high school kids that come and participate in the open
[1:09:22] gyms that we have at the rec, so they're still getting out, which is always a good sign.
[1:09:28] We've been able to establish some more set pick-up all times we were getting phone calls
[1:09:33] consistently with fast-well-starting gym times, they're a little all over the place.
[1:09:37] So, we were able to work with the pick-ball community and players and kind of try to put together monthly calendar.
[1:09:43] We have December and January that's been posted on the website and sent out through the mid-coast pick-up-all community.
[1:09:51] And again, those are minimum times.
[1:09:54] There may be week to week.
[1:09:56] We have our weekly building schedule in which we could add additional times when it's appropriate.
[1:10:01] that indoor season has hit for a basketball and pick of also the numbers are increasing.
[1:10:06] So we're working and communicating with that community to get them what they need as well.
[1:10:12] And then I did just want to put out there that we have some programs that are in the pipelines.
[1:10:16] They're just not completely confirmed with flyers out yet.
[1:10:21] But we're working on some vacation camps for the kiddos.
[1:10:24] We're going to do something for Valentine's Day, it's just a matter of what right now.
[1:10:28] Indoor golf for both adults and kids, volleyball program.
[1:10:32] We just got connected with Seaco's soccer to try and
[1:10:38] figure out some type of soccer or indoor foot salt type program for the kids.
[1:10:42] Indoor track meets, we have indoor track the running club that has set in stone.
[1:10:47] We're definitely going to do that, but the meets are still something we're working through, so hopefully more info will come out.
[1:10:52] And then, of course, the traditional midwinter classic for the basketball junior high tournament
[1:10:59] and some March tournaments were still just getting some of those dates and everything
[1:11:03] else lined up so we can promote it.
[1:11:06] My philosophy is it's easier to cancel last minute than just throw something together last
[1:11:11] minute.
[1:11:11] So, we're planning for normal and then pull the plug if it's needed.
[1:11:16] And, again, I think that's how everyone schedules.
[1:11:18] So right now it's easier to have things set and then just cancel it last minute and add something else. So
[1:11:26] That's
[1:11:27] That's a really good recap of where we are at. There's a list of current programs that we have going on with offerings all those flyers are updated on the website
[1:11:37] There's one thing I'd like you to talk about
[1:11:40] You and I talked recently just about COVID and how that we've been managing that with the youth basketball leagues and
[1:11:46] And we've given the commission typically every three months or so kind of an update on how things are evolving and what we're seeing and how we're dealing with it.
[1:11:54] Can you kind of just give us a little insight?
[1:11:56] Sure, so COVID is very much still a thing as we've probably all seen the schools and colleges and going through various scenarios.
[1:12:06] Thankfully, so far we haven't had any major impacts in our programs.
[1:12:11] I think the community and parents are doing a great job that when they hear they're either quarantine or positive tests
[1:12:16] they are instantly reacting.
[1:12:18] We have sent out some communication with the parents to remind them just to give us a call if there's ever any of those scenarios.
[1:12:25] We can get ahead of it to help prevent a community outbreak and they've been really great with communicating with us.
[1:12:32] There has been some confusion around the schools in pool testing because the town is following these CDC.
[1:12:42] We are not accepting a negative pool test as a green light for the kid to continue to participate in our programs.
[1:12:51] It's if they're told the quarantine and they're unvaccinated, it's an instant, yeah, no, you're quarantine, you're not coming.
[1:12:57] Whereas the schools, they do have a little bit of flexibility because of their pool testing
[1:13:03] ability and that they're giving some kids the green light that if they have negative pool
[1:13:09] tests that they're still continued to go to school.
[1:13:13] And so there is confusion on, well, is rec considered a program in the school which it's separate.
[1:13:19] The school is very different from a classroom setting versus the rec program for basketball
[1:13:24] practice.
[1:13:24] So there is a little bit of confusion, but we're working through that each case that comes up.
[1:13:30] I don't mean to interrupt you, just for the record because it has been a question that's been raised.
[1:13:35] The school department is not notifying the rec department as far as positive and negative testing that's done within the school, correct?
[1:13:43] Correct.
[1:13:44] Just to make sure that that's correct.
[1:13:46] Yep, that's very correct.
[1:13:51] Is that, well, hey, great job. Are you done?
[1:13:55] I mean, I could talk all night.
[1:13:57] right? No, we don't have.
[1:13:58] Very clear, but we got a hockey game going on.
[1:14:01] Yes, you will. No, great job. Thank you very much.
[1:14:04] It's really, you know, as kind of concerning as
[1:14:07] COVID still is. It's great to see just the participation
[1:14:10] numbers. Yeah. Where I guess, you know,
[1:14:12] and everyone's still being cautious and aware,
[1:14:14] and that is all you can ask for.
[1:14:16] So we are very appreciative for everyone that's been
[1:14:19] communicating with us. And, you know,
[1:14:21] again, we take it case-by-case and whoever shows up
[1:14:24] on a Saturday, we mix the kids up and scrimmage,
[1:14:26] either way, they're beginning some type of basketball out of it, which is the goal, so.
[1:14:31] Yeah, and I think that's exactly the right approach, you know, cancel if you have to,
[1:14:35] but let's go for it otherwise.
[1:14:37] Let's plug for it as much as we can.
[1:14:39] I think we all need that, so thank you, and welcome.
[1:14:42] Thanks.
[1:14:43] He's got his hand up for you.
[1:14:45] Oh, yeah, just a manager.
[1:14:48] Yes, just wanted to comment on Sabrina's presentation, fantastic.
[1:14:53] But it's so happy you're here, so that's all I want to say, Serena, we just really pleased you with it.
[1:15:03] Thank you. Thanks for sticking around.
[1:15:08] You don't have to, you don't have to stick around for the next part. Well, come on, you must be good. So I think the only other business is, we did a new business is you. Old business is my piece. It's, it's the recap on the mid coast athletic and recreation complex. The mark.
[1:15:29] as we like to call it so that is the 10 acres that we are in the midst of a
[1:15:34] planning process to come up with a master plan for what that wants to be right
[1:15:41] next to the recreation center so we've had a really over the past month Tom
[1:15:46] alluded to it earlier we substitute our regular monthly meeting of the
[1:15:53] rec commission for this public meeting for the Mark project which is right
[1:15:57] before Thanksgiving. And that was the culmination of a couple weeks of meetings with focus groups
[1:16:07] and local stakeholders, which were run by our consultant, CHA, and Greenplay. It's been a
[1:16:13] really robust process. There's been phenomenal response thus far. They've sent out a lot of people
[1:16:22] listening will have either seen a survey arrive in the mailbox or they were directed
[1:16:29] to the website to take it, but I think there's been an exceptional response to the surveys
[1:16:33] that were out there. The surveys stay open until the end of the month, and I think we get
[1:16:40] a report back from the consultants in mid-January with results of pretty much what the suggestions
[1:16:47] are for uses out on that 10 acres.
[1:16:51] So we will take all that information.
[1:16:53] We've got a 19 person advisory committee
[1:16:56] that will work through the consultants
[1:16:58] to kind of distill what fits
[1:17:02] and what seems feasible and affordable
[1:17:05] and eventually it culminates in a suggestion
[1:17:09] to the council, possibly in February, February or March.
[1:17:16] with the plan for reuse of that acreage.
[1:17:21] So I would say on a scale of 10, it's felt like a 9 to 10,
[1:17:26] the process and the positive feedback we're receiving
[1:17:29] from the general public.
[1:17:32] It's been very open and got a lot of cool ideas.
[1:17:37] And the hard part now is kind of managing those ideas
[1:17:40] and coming up with a plan that actually works
[1:17:42] and actually fits, managing expectations made me the trickiest part.
[1:17:47] But yeah, and what am I missing Tom?
[1:17:49] The only thing I would add is in terms of community engagement, we do have for
[1:17:54] those people who for various reasons don't want to or cannot complete the survey online.
[1:18:02] We have hard copies here at the Town Hall as well as the Recreation Center.
[1:18:06] People can drop by and grab a survey, take it home, fill it out or
[1:18:10] fill it out on site and leave it with us.
[1:18:13] Those will be included with all of the other survey results that come in online.
[1:18:19] And the other thing I think is important for people to know is there's been a little
[1:18:24] bit of a confusion with respect to the statistically verifiable survey, which people receive the
[1:18:30] postcard with a passcode to access, and then there's the open link survey.
[1:18:37] And we're getting questions not a lot but a few so I just want to get it out there.
[1:18:43] The surveys are not different.
[1:18:45] They're not asking different questions, it's the same survey.
[1:18:49] So people who may not have gotten a copy of the postcard with a statistically verifiable survey
[1:18:56] can take the open link survey, which you can get off the town's website and its homepage or hours.
[1:19:03] or you can pick up hard copies, as I said, but they're open till December 31st.
[1:19:07] And we hope anybody that's listening who hasn't been aware of this.
[1:19:12] Please take time to at least go online and complete the survey.
[1:19:16] It shouldn't take very long.
[1:19:17] Your input's really important for us to make the best decisions about what we should consider for the site.
[1:19:25] Thank you for the supplement.
[1:19:28] Any questions of the commission?
[1:19:30] I think you all are pretty aware of the process thus far.
[1:19:34] you've heard a lot about it and been involved,
[1:19:39] okay.
[1:19:40] Seeing no questions, we will move on.
[1:19:42] And that brings us to, when we meet next, right?
[1:19:47] I think we've covered everything.
[1:19:49] The next meeting is.
[1:19:52] Third Wednesday.
[1:19:55] Third day, January 19th.
[1:20:00] And what's the plan now?
[1:20:02] So the plan is to come to these in person.
[1:20:07] and that's available, so there's no.
[1:20:11] Yeah, I would ask John if he has any other information
[1:20:14] beyond what we are under right now,
[1:20:15] which is we can meet in person
[1:20:20] and people still have the option to meet virtually.
[1:20:23] I don't know, John, if you have a timeline to report
[1:20:27] on how much longer that may be the case
[1:20:29] or anything you might want to share along those lines.
[1:20:34] The only thing I can tell you is that the ability to meet remotely was the result of
[1:20:44] the town council declaring a state emergency given a transmissibility of COVID.
[1:20:50] And as long as that's in effect, then the remote meeting participation or remote participation
[1:20:56] in meetings policy kicks in.
[1:21:00] The council has it mandated that people go fully remote and I don't think they will.
[1:21:08] So it's pretty much status quo until the council takes another action.
[1:21:14] Okay.
[1:21:15] I don't know if that helped.
[1:21:16] So you don't have to, you can do just what you're doing right tonight.
[1:21:20] Yeah.
[1:21:20] Okay.
[1:21:21] We'll plan on it until we hear otherwise.
[1:21:25] Can we get a motion to adjourn?
[1:21:27] Emily
[1:21:30] seconded by Eric all those in favor good night everybody thanks for
[1:21:37] coming John yeah thanks Michael thank you all right good night everybody