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Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Chapel Hill Town Council's April 24th meeting. We are pleased to have you join us. Now that the pandemic is over, we no longer do a roll call, but Council Member Sharp has asked to be excused for a prior family commitment, so she will not be joining us. This evening, we have three items on our agenda for discussion.

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Our first item is a public forum relating to the use of the town's 2020-24-25 community development block grant funds.

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That will be followed by a presentation and requested approval of our affordable housing funding plan.

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And the final item is an update and discussion of rewriting our rules, the initiative for rewriting the town's land use management ordinance or LUMO for short.

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Before we get underway, I do have a couple of announcements to share.

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First, staff has asked that we highlight ongoing and upcoming opportunities for public input on the work we're doing.

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Relating to downtown, we are accepting input on the downtown public right-of-way plan until May 3rd.

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We want to hear your thoughts on how we can make downtown more vibrant and accessible.

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If you haven't done so already, please go online.

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there's a project white board where you can share your thoughts.

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Plus, for people with questions or comments about the land use

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management rewrite, our planning staff will be at the farmers market this Saturday, April 27th,

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and there will be a public information meeting next Monday, April 29th at the library.

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For those looking for something fun to do this weekend, the north side festival, which will have...

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The North Side Festival is here right now, kidding. Next this weekend, it'll include live

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entertainment dancing in the street, old school games, and great food, and it's happening

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this Saturday. Last but not least, from the Council calendar, Council has two meetings coming

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up. We'll hold a special meeting on Friday morning at 830 to discuss a bond referendum,

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And our next regular meeting is scheduled for Wednesday May 1st and town manager, do we have a location for our bond discussion on Friday?

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Or we still

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live very room B. So council also for you. Come to room B of the library on Friday morning

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To two council members does anyone have an announcement to share. Yeah

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Good evening everyone. I just wanted to let community members know

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that on May 3rd correct me, houses now March, is that correct? Yes, okay. So thank you May 4th

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starting at the Peace and Justice Plaza at 2 and then moving to the Hargrave Center.

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Come out, show your support for 30% AMI in below.

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This is a collaboration of community members, partners, and an opportunity for community

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to take to the streets, lift their voices around what's important to them, and also be

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in community with one another.

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See you there.

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are there announcements, Council Member Barry?

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Thank you. I want to remind everyone, or share with you, if you haven't heard, that the 24th annual

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military council community dinner is taking place on Sunday, April 28th, that's the Sunday

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want to clock at McDougall Middle School. It's always a wonderful time.

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Thank you. Okay. Next, we invite members of the public to comment on items not on the printed agenda or to bring a petition forward.

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We want to remind our audience that public input is important to us for members of the public in attendance and wishing to speak.

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Please sign up with the town clerk at the table on the left side of Council Chambers towards the front of the room.

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If you're here to speak on a specific item, there will be a presentation on the item followed by Council clarifying questions and then public comment.

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So those are items on the printed agenda.

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If there are individuals in the audience who wish to bring a formal petition tonight, our practice is to receive petitions and refer them to the mayor and manager.

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we don't as a rule take action on petitions at this time.

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So now the mayor pretend will call two names.

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The first person should come to the podium.

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The second person is effectively on deck.

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So if you are in a seat that is in the middle of a row

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or the back of the chambers, please come on up and sit towards the front

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so that it's easy for you to come forward when it's your turn.

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Finally, I want to remind everyone that we want everyone to be heard

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to feel comfortable when they are at the podium. So please refrain from commenting or clapping.

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Okay, our first speaker is Jane Hathaway, followed by George Barrett.

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Okay, I start.

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I want to thank you members of the town council for your time and consideration

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and allowing us to come forward and speak. As director of the furniture project,

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of Orange County for 13 years, I am here to speak for the invisible but essential people

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of Chapel Hill. Past, present, and future. These folks have in our suffering due to the lack

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of affordable housing. A family of six, where the father resides in the men's shelter,

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Father mother and four children, excuse me, our at home start are waiting for housing for two years before they can live together to be a family.

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I disabled and middle-aged gentlemen.

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Excuse me, terrible allergies.

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lived at the I-F-Celter for three years before being placed in the second story apartment.

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He walks with a locker and he was put on a second story apartment.

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A gourmet chef at one of the Chapel Hill's finest restaurants spends over $75 a week

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for Uber to take him to a small apartment which is far away from where he works where he sleeps on the floor.

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I have 1265 more stories like this, including a predominant, long-time citizen of Chapel Hill who became very ill and spent five days in the emergency department where he passed away.

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This was due to the fact that there was not enough staff service people and aides to reopen an entire floor of beds in the hospital.

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When one enters Chapel Hill, I'm informed of Boulevard, one is struck by the signs and more signs of luxury apartments.

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But what do these people that we talk about see, not for you, you can't afford this, go away, don't bother coming in.

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So how could anyone in good conscience even begin to think of delaying or underfunding critically needed affordable housing?

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because everyone, all citizens of Chapel Hill, suffer.

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Thank you for your time.

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Thank you.

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George Barrett, followed by Ryan Lavali.

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Good evening, Mayor in Council.

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My name is George Barrett, and I'm the executive director of the Marion Sheet Jackson Center,

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as well as the co-chair of the Orange County Affordable Housing Coalition.

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The Orange County Affordable Housing Coalition,

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It urges you to put forward a bond now in 2024.

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One that supports the economic and racial justice through a serious investment in affordable

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housing.

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Last month, you saw it has dozens of folks here and some folks who are here today came

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in solidarity of this asset.

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As well as submitted a petition of over 360 members of our community, where demanding and asking for affordable housing now.

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We stand ready to support the town's bond education campaign and GOT be efforts this fall during a high visibility election season because the opportunity is now.

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We recognize that the council is balancing multiple priorities to determine bond categories and amounts, and we also know that a $10 million bond for affordable housing is woefully insufficient.

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The town's recently adopted affordable housing plan requires an investment of 50 million

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over the next five years and we need at least 35 million in the form of bond funding in order

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to reach that goal. If the next bond is not to be considered until 2032, it is incontriable

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that we wouldn't invest more now to one of the most urgent and desperate needs in our community.

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We know that it hurts our whole community if we lack the resources to secure land opportunities

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to build more affordable units or to preserve no properties to prevent further

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displacement of people of color and those with the lowest incomes. The 10 million

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currently suggested with only support 25 percent of housing units in the

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pipeline. With bond funds limited to lesion road and a single

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LITEC project, our external housing partners will struggle to deliver urgently needed

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units. Jappel Hill has been successful in investing and needed affordable housing

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projects the past several years with previous bond funds.

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We must keep the momentum going,

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especially at a time when the cost of housing

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makes living here out of reach for so many people

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who are so integral to this town.

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The affordable housing investment strategy was approved unanimously

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by many members of this council.

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New council members were elected on a platform supporting

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affordable housing.

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This is your opportunity to put decisive action behind your words.

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We understand that these decisions are complicated

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and that swift leadership is needed to move this forward for 2024. We're behind you and we're

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counting on you to lead. So we are calling on you to include $35 million for affordable housing

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and a bond on an November 2024 ballot. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Ryan LeBally followed by Ian Scott.

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Good evening, Mayor and council. My name is Ryan LeBally. I'm excited to be here advocating

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with other affordable housing advocates and home preservation partners on behalf of the $50 million

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housing bond being placed on the ballot in 2024 and for at least $35 million of that to be

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designated for affordable housing. I'm excited because I'm also celebrating my 10th year here in Orange

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County and over those 10 years I've seen the willingness creative thinking and collaborative spirit

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of our citizens jurisdictions and housing partners that ensure we will rise to the occasion

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past the bond and begin using this opportunity without pause. I believe this is an opportunity

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this community is ready to seize now. It is also an opportunity that is severely needed. I'm

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a community occupational therapist and one of the co- coordinators at the Orange County Home

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Preservation Coalition. We work to coordinate resources and partners to provide necessary and health

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promoting home repairs. We also aggregate data across Orange County regarding needs for these services.

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In Chapel Hill coalition partners are currently working on 18 different homes.

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However, just this year we have a wait list of 56 low-income Chapel Hill families who need repairs.

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The average wait time for repairs is between 1.5 and 2 years.

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I will add that there have been many homes that we simply could not find solutions for

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or were unable to serve due to complications or lack of appropriate funding mechanisms.

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So this number is likely lower for how many more we could have served with more funding.

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The minimum amount of money needed to complete the repairs of these 56 homes is over $500,000.

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76% of the families on our Orange County wait list have older adults in the home,

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and greater than 75% of our families of color, with a large portion of those being black families.

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To serve these families, we need more funds, but also we need flexible funds that can assist with costly and complicated repairs.

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The housing bond will provide immense opportunity for the collaborative spirit and creative thinking

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of our partners to drive more home repairs and affordable living across Chapel Hill.

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We need to be able to preserve our current housing stock to ensure the longevity and stability

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of our communities, particularly in facilitating aging and community for elders, stable housing

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for people with disabilities, and racial equity across the housing sector.

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I also partner with the Orange County Department on Aging, in each friendly initiatives

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in co-chair the master aging plan housing work group.

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In this work we evaluate our county senior housing.

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Thank you for voting. Yes on the Legion Road property. It is a much needed addition to our senior housing stock and contributes to the master aging plans goals achievement.

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We see our commitment. We see your commitment to our elders and we really appreciate it. With that said, we still need more affordable housing for elders. According to the 2023 Orange County senior housing.

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The affordable independent options for elders in Chapel Hill are still scarce, and those that our present have weightless of 30 to 40 people, often requiring years to get into those options.

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For long-term residents, older adults and people with disabilities, communities of color, and more we need affordable housing, and we need it now. Thank you.

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Ian Scott, followed by Travis Wayne.

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Good evening, Mayor. Members of council. I mean, Scott, I'm proud to serve the 600 plus members of the Chamber for a greater chance.

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Chapel Hill Carbro is their vice president of advocacy.

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I'm here tonight to encourage you to push forward and put a bond referendum on the 2020

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for ballot. We understand the added time pressure that puts on tough decisions that still have to be

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made, but we believe the advantages of acting this year outweigh in the advantages to waiting.

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We also ask you to allocate the most funding practical in that referendum for affordable housing.

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We recognize there are many pressing needs, public safety, facilities, mobility, infrastructure,

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they all need funding, they all have real impacts to our community and our quality of life,

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balancing a $50 million bond package among those many priorities is indeed a tall order,

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but as many of our friends in the affordable housing coalition have articulated so well over

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recent weeks. Our communities need is huge. We need affordable housing and employers of

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every size and in every sector of our economy agree that affordable housing is a top priority.

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They see firsthand the challenges their colleagues face finding housing nearby that they can afford.

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Chambers government affairs team has had a chance or a committee rather has had a chance

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to be briefed on Chapel Hills affordable housing plan. They found it to be specific, feasible, compelling.

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We know that the necessary funding for that plan will not come entirely from this bond.

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But as you prioritize projects, we hope you'll air on the side of putting more money

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in for affordable housing any time there's a close call.

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Please go for the bond referendum in 2024 and please go as big as you can for affordable

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housing.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Let's see, we have Travis Way followed by Renucasol.

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Hi, my name is Travis, I'm a chap of Hill Tenant.

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I'm also here to talk to you about $50 million affordable housing bond,

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or what hopefully can be with $50 million affordable housing bond.

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Mostly I want to talk about how it's easy to get lost in the sea of rows and columns.

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It's easy to get lost in a long list of town priorities and community needs, good causes and all that.

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there are fire stations that need repair. There are side paths that need building

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and facilities to maintain. These are all important. We do need sidewalks, crossing parts of

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town on foot can feel like playing leapfrog. We do need funding for public facilities, especially

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those that serve our most vulnerable community members. We do need more parks since parks are both

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important ecosystems and some of the only places left in society where people can gather without

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spending a dime. But I want you to remember something. Sidewalks don't mean much, if the

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people who were going to use them are forced out of town.

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Peel public facilities can be spotless, but if most of us who are using them get displaced, then

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they're going to stay spotless. And parks, parks are treasured when they're used diversely by many

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different kinds of people, living different kinds of lives. If Chapel Hill tenants continue to

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have far fewer homes than we need, even as landlords with LLCs and Airbnb's displaced one family

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after another, then the only people left to create stories and memories in those fancy parks

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will have money. Lots of it. There's a Chinese word, Beethoven. It means to be emptied,

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like a void. People, gone, where once people were. I'm talking to you about displacement because

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I've been displaced. I grew up in a family that hid all of our life savings under a mattress just

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so we could hit the road at any given time. Lay on lords kicked us out of one unit after another.

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We tried to make an oasis out of one unit, planted a little garden inside a neighborhood,

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driven with concentrated poverty, but then we had to move in with two other generations of

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family because just keep a group over, we over our heads. All of this means that I've lost

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track of the amount of times I've been displaced and how many homes I've lost and all of those homes

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I can't return to because as tenants, we don't have the right to return to the homes that we lose.

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Funding affordable housing is not enough to solve the tenants' crisis. For that, we got to make

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an actual human right. No, not something to extract profit from. You need to set aside far more

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units than 15%. But allocating the bond money to affordable housing and putting it forward now

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in 2024 will help dramatically. More Chapel Hill tenants will have home.

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More people will be housed. So when you look at that sea of rose and columns, I want you to see something other than that list of competing priorities. I want you to see people.

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I want you to see the $15 million bond for what it is, choosing sides. I want you to see a clear choice between affordable housing and everything else, between supporting tenants and not supporting tenants, between displacing people and not displacing people, between being part of the problem versus being part of the solution.

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We need to allocate at least $35 million to affordable housing.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Renukasal followed by Tom Fed.

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Do I press the ring?

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Oh, sorry.

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Thank you.

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I'm Renukasal.

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Marcella Twamley.

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And I are petitioning the town council for $7.75 million bond for Parks and Recreation Department projects.

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We are the chair and vice chair of the Parks Commission.

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For years, the commission has been discussing a bond as the most effective way to cover all

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the deferred maintenance and move forward with new facilities.

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We learned about the potential 2024 bond at our last meeting and we didn't get the opportunity

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to discuss it as a group since Council will be deciding this soon.

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This is why Marcell and I are submitting this position on our own instead of it coming from

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the commission.

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The penny for parks fund is helpful.

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However, it will take over eight years to get through the existing list of projects.

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On Monday could give us a chance to catch up.

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The much needed projects include a splash pad,

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which has been on the 2013 Parks Master Plan for over 10 years.

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Additionally, our community submitted a petition with over 1,000 signatures

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that demand is there.

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At the side of the splash pad, we'll also need to include restrooms and more parking spaces.

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This will cost about 1.2 million.

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Pickleball is growing.

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Many towns are creating pickleball complexes to meet the demand.

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Our Pickleball community plans on raising half the funds needed and the town can match with the other half.

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This will cost us 800,000.

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The planning from Mark Morgan Creek East Greenway has been completed.

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Now we need the money to build it.

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Constructing this Greenway will connect schools, shopping, parks, health care opportunities, and UNC.

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This is expected to cost 4.7 million.

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The restrooms of Cedar Falls Park are on a septic system and we need to connect it to Wasa.

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The current onsite sewage system facility was designed for a part built in the 1970s and the

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rest room was built in 2012. We have wanted to make this connection for years. Usage at the

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park is increased partially due to the synthetic turf field replacement project and that number is

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expected to grow. Especially after the reconstruction of the tennis courts, the parking lot must also

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expanded and paved to make the site more accessible. This will cost $700,000. The parking lot

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in sidewalks at Hargrave needs to be made ADA compliant. The project is especially important

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since the tennis court repairs will be completed this summer and the demand at this site will increase

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this will cost $150,000. Also the pool at Homestead Park is leaking. It will cost $200,000 in

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and new PVC pool liner to fix this.

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All these needs add up to 7.5 million.

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Once the parks and recreation department catches up

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on these deferred projects, the pennies for parks tax

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can be used to make our parks system something

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which we can be proud.

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In 2022, Raleigh, Greensboro,

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Matthews, and Concord past parks bonds.

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Many capital hall residents notice

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what our neighbors are doing with their parks

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and have wondered why we can't do the same thing.

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A 7.75 million dollar bond will catch up

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all of this and fix a park system. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, Tom Finn, followed by

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you vet Matthews.

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00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,780
Hi, good evening. My name is Tom Finn. I've been a resident of Chapel Hill for

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17 years and I'm also a volunteer at the IFC. I stand before you encouraging to put the referendum

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in September or this fall. With the hopes of 35 million we'll go to affordable housing.

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00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:27,960
A lot of good arguments have already been made this evening, I know you're aware of the equity component and how affordable housing, how important that is for the equity, I also understand that there's an ecological component to it, we know there's also to folks who have come here into the chapel every day to do the work that they did.

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I personally know my wife is a teacher in this district and I know that teachers in this district cannot afford to live here.

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so you've heard all these arguments before, but I'm going to say something much more basic to you,

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and that's you have said that you cared about this, about this issue. I was said,

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thankfully this fall, most of you weren't in front of this panel, and everybody who was on the

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panel said they cared about this issue. And so if you care about it, there's no reason why you

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would ask the public to vote on it. And so again, I'm asking you to put the referendum on for

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$50,035,000 for Ford.

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Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Matthews followed by Jacqueline Rome.

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Glad to hear the button and y'all got it.

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Okay. I'm going to say what's up, and if you don't say it back, I won't feel welcome.

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00:25:20,050 --> 00:25:26,070
What's up? Hi. My name is Eva Matthews. I'm the OCO of the Community and Parliament Fund.

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and that is the Office and Community Organizer.

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And I'm here to speak on behalf of 30%

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in my envelope.

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When people are here and we're talking about a photo

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of my housing, our population seems to get lost.

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Because when you're saying a photo of my housing

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could be an 80% it could be a 765040, but we are at 30.

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So I want to be really specific about 30% in your mind.

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I've been in this space many times.

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I don't know, I know some folks who know me, but I want to make clear to you about this population,

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00:26:01,910 --> 00:26:07,870
how we're suffering, how we don't have any housing being built for this particular income.

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We are the people who are on the streets, we are the people who are living day-to-day in tech communities,

283
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:19,210
we are the people who are living in their cars, now fair y'all, y'all don't need to do the right thing.

284
00:26:19,210 --> 00:26:29,550
I know they ask it for 35 million. I fell among that. You know it's always good. I want the 50 million. I think we deserve the 50 million.

285
00:26:29,710 --> 00:26:35,150
You know what I'm saying? But a lot of times you guys have always said we are not being seen.

286
00:26:35,270 --> 00:26:40,230
I know it's not true because I got a big mouth and I'm always here when I can be here.

287
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But the thing that concerns me most is the fact that if you're going to ask me what we need to do with this

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and you're going to give 35 million to affordable housing, 30% AMI and below.

289
00:26:57,350 --> 00:27:03,650
Then the rest of that 50 million can y'all like split that up with funding for CEO.

290
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:10,310
Funding for PV homes, they build and funding for IFC so they can fix that shelter.

291
00:27:11,410 --> 00:27:15,450
Funding for community empowerment, not community empowerment,

292
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Parliament incorporated the lowest value because a lot of this stuff is kind of like falling down

293
00:27:21,730 --> 00:27:28,210
on the West Old. If y'all want to spend the money the rest of it all together, I think that

294
00:27:28,210 --> 00:27:33,010
this is what we should do with the band. Which I'll thank. Do the right thing.

295
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:40,890
Thank you. Jacqueline Rome followed by Betty Curry.

296
00:27:40,890 --> 00:27:49,770
Um, we didn't want to hear how y'all doing that, but um, I stand up with a part man, and they didn't

297
00:27:49,770 --> 00:27:58,190
get nothing to open. My house, my apartment, the ceiling almost coming down, the, um,

298
00:27:58,310 --> 00:28:05,930
ain't been painted since I've been in a binner through to some of you, um, and then they don't

299
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:08,570
They don't try to do nothing.

300
00:28:09,030 --> 00:28:11,930
For I brought me, they don't read model of everywhere else.

301
00:28:12,490 --> 00:28:14,650
We ain't got I brought me with model again.

302
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:16,970
We got roaches all like that.

303
00:28:17,770 --> 00:28:21,830
So I was y'all could just do something about what would have brought me.

304
00:28:22,230 --> 00:28:23,690
Because I'm tired of living like that.

305
00:28:23,850 --> 00:28:24,610
And I'm paying my rent.

306
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I'm doing exercise for all to do.

307
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But I need them to come in there and remodel them.

308
00:28:29,630 --> 00:28:33,170
Because we say not that roaches and all this stuff.

309
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We can't even get them.

310
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I'm hoping that y'all have money enough to do that.

311
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Thank you.

312
00:28:41,390 --> 00:28:42,230
Thank you.

313
00:28:44,510 --> 00:28:46,730
Betty Curry followed by Quentin Harper.

314
00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:52,170
Good evening everyone.

315
00:28:53,150 --> 00:28:58,910
I'm here in support of the knee of a 35 million dollar bond.

316
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If not more, in particular for the lower income families that live in this community,

317
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which we, to my understanding, have 12 public housings in Chapel Hill and one in Carborough,

318
00:29:13,050 --> 00:29:22,030
Oakwood, and I know for a fact, the conditions of all those units are totally outdated.

319
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Some of the units has been there 37 years, 40 years, and my biggest advocate was Elliott Woods,

320
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You know, playgrounds, they took the playground, but it didn't put one back, but my concerns

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are we take ourselves as a diverse community and that we're for all, but that's not

322
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sure.

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00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:59,970
Our people is in the woods behind the scenes, never acknowledged, and this money would be a

324
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:12,680
Such as empowerment, such as orange candidate, homelessness, such as IFC, all the organizations that people who are struggling are punited to.

325
00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:19,520
And always, always, always, we don't have the money. So when are we going to have the money?

326
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When are we going to have the money to house and to take care of those people that make $30,000 or less?

327
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as opposed to those who make 80,000 to 100,000.

328
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We did not fit in those categories, and I'm a little tired of people building for those folks

329
00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:44,940
and neglecting the folks that are victims of the policies.

330
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:51,380
We are victims of the policies, and nobody's willing to make a change.

331
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We talk about it, but we don't do it.

332
00:30:54,260 --> 00:31:02,140
So I would like to see all these plans that we have, we put them in practice and give

333
00:31:02,140 --> 00:31:06,340
reparations to those families who deserve reparations in this community.

334
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And I look forward to seeing that being done.

335
00:31:10,780 --> 00:31:11,820
Thank you.

336
00:31:12,620 --> 00:31:13,600
Thank you.

337
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,340
Quint and Harper followed by Darren Campbell.

338
00:31:25,490 --> 00:31:26,110
Good evening, Mayor.

339
00:31:26,830 --> 00:31:27,290
And council.

340
00:31:28,330 --> 00:31:30,370
It's a pleasure to be here with you this evening.

341
00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:38,370
So my name is Clinton Harper. I am a resident of Carboro, and I work as the Executive Director with Peeley Holmes.

342
00:31:38,910 --> 00:31:51,970
I'm here today asking you to support the placing the bond on the ballot in 2024 and allocating $35 million to the affordable housing.

343
00:31:53,710 --> 00:32:00,130
I'm recalling the affordable housing houses now questionnaire, which a lot of folks supported

344
00:32:00,130 --> 00:32:05,810
a bond, as well as two sets for housing, so I'm really glad that that was brought up tonight.

345
00:32:07,010 --> 00:32:09,330
And my phone did exactly what I was going to do.

346
00:32:14,260 --> 00:32:18,800
So I really do understand that there are a lot of competing interests, and this is tough.

347
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:31,900
I'm trusting that you will count as one of your most pressing interests, people having a roof over their head and housing that is dignified and affordable.

348
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:45,500
Without significant government investments, the number of people who are homeless will continue to increase and the gap of affordable housing units will widen and continue to fall drastically.

349
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:48,240
below the need.

350
00:32:59,220 --> 00:33:03,240
I'm asking you to consider that equity looks like putting the bond for

351
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,600
the 2024 ballot with 35 million.

352
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:17,690
I'm asking you to consider that equity looks like

353
00:33:17,690 --> 00:33:24,570
putting the bond on the 2024 ballot with $35 million earmark for affordable housing

354
00:33:24,570 --> 00:33:30,510
and letting voters decide. This is a step towards advancing equity because it will enable

355
00:33:30,510 --> 00:33:38,810
on profits and community members to access the funding, to help the needs of our community.

356
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:44,990
In the face of being denied access to these opportunities historically, in my role as

357
00:33:44,990 --> 00:33:51,510
Executive Director for P.V. Holmes is in the court to share that roughly 69% of the cost

358
00:33:51,510 --> 00:33:56,150
to build the three homes supporting people transitioning out of housing insecurity,

359
00:33:56,150 --> 00:34:02,910
Hill Street in Carboro has come from Orange County in Carboro. That support has been

360
00:34:02,910 --> 00:34:08,350
critical in building these homes. Homes where residents pay no more than 30% of their

361
00:34:08,350 --> 00:34:14,550
income on rent and it is also enabled us to increase our stock of deeply affordable housing

362
00:34:14,550 --> 00:34:20,890
from 7 to 10. I want to skip and ask you to imagine

363
00:34:24,250 --> 00:34:29,230
a vision in which we can dream of wild

364
00:34:29,810 --> 00:34:32,290
And that is to build a tiny home community.

365
00:34:33,630 --> 00:34:36,130
Four folks who are transitioning out of housing insecurity,

366
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who have been veterans and who are elders.

367
00:34:41,710 --> 00:34:47,890
The support that this money can provide will allow us to continue moving in that direction.

368
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:48,890
Thank you.

369
00:34:48,930 --> 00:34:50,230
Thank you.

370
00:34:51,230 --> 00:34:54,690
Darren Campbell, and that is the last name I have on my list.

371
00:34:54,690 --> 00:34:56,310
Thank you.

372
00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:09,640
Hello, my name is Darren Campbell. Thank you for allowing me to speak again. I have faced y'all quite a few

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time. And I have to mirror, I have to echo the feelings of a lot of the people who shared

374
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:29,400
her already, and that this bond issue is pivotal in creating equity and diversity in Chapel Hill.

375
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:41,420
As the stands now, they divide growing every day between people who can't afford to live in this town.

376
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:52,580
This bond will go a long way in creating spaces for people to shorten that gap.

377
00:35:52,580 --> 00:36:02,220
There are, as you, as well, where there's already, there are three projects already

378
00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:07,140
slated for work to begin this year.

379
00:36:08,580 --> 00:36:16,400
This having this bond issue on the ballot and allocating at least 35 million to affordable

380
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,000
housing.

381
00:36:18,340 --> 00:36:25,400
That money will go, will be what is needed to get these projects moving.

382
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:31,920
And those projects stand to bring quite a few people.

383
00:36:32,340 --> 00:36:37,980
At least, I don't know exactly now, to bring quite a few people out of being

384
00:36:37,980 --> 00:36:46,980
how they're insecure within the next two years to having a place that they can

385
00:36:46,980 --> 00:36:54,680
self pride, some sense of stability, and that's the ability in and of itself is what makes

386
00:36:54,680 --> 00:37:02,000
people feel safer in this town. Makes people more apt to be able to feel comfortable

387
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,520
walking the sidewalks, going to the parks, playing pickleball, going fishing,

388
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:14,080
whatever they choose to do because that's one left thing that's on their mind that they have to

389
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,940
about the day to day trauma of where they're going to put the hit, later heads down.

390
00:37:21,860 --> 00:37:27,100
And that for a lot of the marginalized people is either day to day stress. It's not knowing

391
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:35,080
where they're going to lay their head down. This bond issue is pivotal and I know that I've faced

392
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:43,040
some of you before I spoke with some of you one-on-one, and you have said that you share my passion

393
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:47,380
for this. You said that you were interested in it. You said that you care about the people of this town.

394
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,580
This is the time that we stop talking about how much we care about these people and we put some

395
00:37:53,580 --> 00:37:55,740
boots to action and we do something.

396
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,680
I'm just one guy. I got allowed not enough, but my mouth's

397
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:08,180
able to so loud. And I thank you for allowing me to speak just right now, but please.

398
00:38:08,180 --> 00:38:10,180
Thank you.

399
00:38:11,820 --> 00:38:12,020
Thank you.

400
00:38:12,020 --> 00:38:12,340
Okay.

401
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:13,300
That's the end.

402
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:14,520
Is there anyone else?

403
00:38:16,890 --> 00:38:17,190
Okay.

404
00:38:18,410 --> 00:38:18,770
Council.

405
00:38:19,090 --> 00:38:21,950
I need a motion to receive and refer.

406
00:38:22,270 --> 00:38:23,010
A petition.

407
00:38:23,330 --> 00:38:23,970
So moved.

408
00:38:24,930 --> 00:38:26,530
Move by council member.

409
00:38:26,750 --> 00:38:28,610
Very second by council member.

410
00:38:28,610 --> 00:38:29,370
Miller Fushi.

411
00:38:29,710 --> 00:38:30,550
All those in favor.

412
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:31,530
Please say aye.

413
00:38:31,770 --> 00:38:32,030
Aye.

414
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:32,530
Aye.

415
00:38:32,530 --> 00:38:33,210
Any opposed?

416
00:38:34,690 --> 00:38:36,550
Motion passes eight to zero.

417
00:38:38,490 --> 00:39:02,350
That brings us to our consent agenda. Council members earlier today, we had a request to pull item 3, which is the new traffic calming policy, and to bring it back for some questions and discussion at our May 1st meeting. Additionally, we've added item 3.1 relating to purchase of property near North Forest Hills Park.

418
00:39:03,030 --> 00:39:10,850
So I am looking for a motion to adopt resolution R1 as amended to include item 3.1 authorizing

419
00:39:10,850 --> 00:39:16,410
the town manager to execute option to purchase real property near Piny Mountain Road adjacent

420
00:39:16,410 --> 00:39:21,290
to the current North Forest Hills Park and remove item 3 the traffic commonplace.

421
00:39:21,310 --> 00:39:22,270
So moved.

422
00:39:25,270 --> 00:39:36,770
move by council member Ryan second and by council member Barry all those in favor please say aye aye any opposed please say aye motion passes eight to zero.

423
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:39,820
All right.

424
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:50,280
Now, we are on to item number four, which is a public forum, on use of the 2024-2025

425
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:56,840
community development block grant funds and Emily Holt, our affordable housing manager, is here to walk us through.

426
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:09,320
Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Emily Holt, the Affordable Housing Manager, on the Affordable

427
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:15,540
Housing and Community Connections team. The purpose of tonight's public forum is to receive

428
00:40:15,540 --> 00:40:21,600
public comment on the recommended community development block grant or CDBG funding plan for next year.

429
00:40:22,140 --> 00:40:24,060
No council action is required tonight.

430
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:35,080
As you can see on this timeline, we are midway through the

431
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:40,720
held annually. And after the first public forum last fall, we accepted and reviewed applications

432
00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:45,460
and are now holding the second to receive feedback from the public and from council on the

433
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:50,640
draft funding plan. We will continue accepting comments on the plan through April and council will

434
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:56,100
take action on a final version of the annual plan currently scheduled for June.

435
00:40:56,940 --> 00:41:00,700
Annual action plans will be due for submission to HUD this summer.

436
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:07,020
Tonight, I'm going to give you

437
00:41:07,020 --> 00:41:09,700
for reviewing projects included in the recommended plan

438
00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,220
and opening up the forum to hear from the community.

439
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,760
So CDBG is a program administered by the U.S. Department

440
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:19,280
of Housing and Urban Development.

441
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,120
It was set up by Congress in 1974

442
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,420
for the purposes of providing decent affordable housing,

443
00:41:25,980 --> 00:41:27,460
creating suitable living environments

444
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:29,280
and expanding economic opportunity.

445
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:31,860
The town of Chapel Hill is designated

446
00:41:31,860 --> 00:41:33,740
as what's called an entitlement community,

447
00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,720
which means it receives an annual allocation

448
00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:38,000
of CDBG funds directly from HUD

449
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,520
that's typically about $415 to $420,000 a year.

450
00:41:44,470 --> 00:41:48,390
I'll project to prove and fund it as part of the CWG Annual Action Plan

451
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:51,190
must address at least one of three national objectives.

452
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:54,630
The primary one is to benefit low and moderate income households,

453
00:41:55,150 --> 00:41:58,330
which is those earning less than 80% of the area median income,

454
00:41:58,470 --> 00:42:01,950
which right now is about 85,000 for a household of four.

455
00:42:02,530 --> 00:42:06,650
The other two are to aid in the prevention or elimination of slum or blight,

456
00:42:06,650 --> 00:42:15,570
So for example, an acquisition of a condemned building or to meet an urgent need, which is rare and typically associated with a natural disaster.

457
00:42:17,010 --> 00:42:25,950
In addition, projects must support the council's strategic goals and the goals identified in town plans such as the county wide five year con plan and the affordable housing plan.

458
00:42:26,970 --> 00:42:35,490
This year the total CDBG annual action plan allocates 426,563 dollars. This includes an estimated

459
00:42:36,510 --> 00:42:44,590
CDBG grant next year of 419,225 dollars as well as about 7,000 dollars in program income

460
00:42:44,590 --> 00:42:50,690
that the town receives from previous CDBG projects. In this case, that's a payment on a 20 year

461
00:42:50,690 --> 00:42:52,850
CDBG loan that was made in 2008.

462
00:42:55,580 --> 00:42:57,700
I will add that this is an estimate,

463
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,120
and HUD will announce the actual amount,

464
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,380
and so it could change a little bit in June.

465
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:05,780
So before I review the funding plan,

466
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,380
I just want to quickly note that there are six eligible activities

467
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:09,820
that CDBG can fund.

468
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:11,580
The most common are acquisition,

469
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:12,900
home ownership assistance,

470
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,140
and home rehabilitation or preservation.

471
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:19,260
There are other ones that also include economic development,

472
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:21,080
infrastructure and public facilities,

473
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:22,580
as well as public services.

474
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:34,840
Okay, so this table is hard to read but I will run through in more detail shortly and there's more detail in the packets as well.

475
00:43:35,540 --> 00:43:47,600
But generally speaking, we received six applications this year, one which was submitted by the refugee community partnership was not considered for funding because it was submitted late and it's the town's policy not to evaluate late applications.

476
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:57,040
All of the applicants have been previously funded and with the exception of the public services category there was enough money to fully fund all of the applications.

477
00:43:58,340 --> 00:44:04,360
So a quick summary after setting aside 20% of the, which is allowed for administrative costs.

478
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:08,280
We are fully funding the affordable housing and economic development projects.

479
00:44:08,540 --> 00:44:12,320
We are proposing to fully fund the towns summary youth employment program.

480
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:21,000
And we are proposing to allocate the balance of the 15% public services cap to IFC for homelessness case management.

481
00:44:21,380 --> 00:44:27,360
The remaining 140,000 that was not requested would be put towards the neighborhood revitalization fund,

482
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:34,680
which is a flexible pool of funding that is available quickly during the year for affordable housing or community development projects that come up.

483
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:59,840
So, going a little bit more in detail about each application, the recommended plan recommends to fully fund $30,000 to the community home trust to support home buyer assistance for two to three households, as well as nearly 90,000 to rebuilding together of the triangle to support the rehabilitation of at least.

484
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,000
Five homes. This also includes admin support to the Orange County Home Preservation Coalition.

485
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:12,640
As mentioned, once the admin and public service caps are removed, there's 140,000 left in funding that would

486
00:45:16,030 --> 00:45:29,710
go to

487
00:45:29,710 --> 00:45:34,910
report low income refugee farmers develop and grow small agricultural businesses.

488
00:45:35,490 --> 00:45:41,310
Their application estimates estimates the funds will support 15 businesses run by 29 refugee

489
00:45:41,310 --> 00:45:44,070
farmers and that also is fully funding their request.

490
00:45:46,250 --> 00:45:51,970
And finally, the 15% cap on public services activities, which is about $64,000, makes

491
00:45:51,970 --> 00:45:54,710
this category of applications more competitive.

492
00:45:55,630 --> 00:46:00,090
We recommend fully funding this town's summer youth employment program at $35,000.

493
00:46:00,090 --> 00:46:10,170
This program allows us to author-paid part-time employment and various town departments to Chapel Hill youth ages 14 to 18 from low and moderate income households.

494
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:13,250
This year we hope to employ 16 Chapel Hill students.

495
00:46:16,690 --> 00:46:29,710
After funding the towns program we recommend applying the remainder of the funds that can be in the public services cap to IFC and that will support one of the three full-time case manager positions that they requested funding for.

496
00:46:29,710 --> 00:46:32,250
Their request was for about $140,000.

497
00:46:33,530 --> 00:46:37,830
The full-time case manager will help individuals and families experiencing homelessness,

498
00:46:38,170 --> 00:46:41,870
access, resources, and secure permanent affordable housing.

499
00:46:44,830 --> 00:46:49,070
And so as a reminder tonight, we are asking council to open the public forum and receive

500
00:46:49,070 --> 00:46:55,450
public comments on the recommendations for the use of CDBG funds included in the draft 2425

501
00:46:55,450 --> 00:47:01,110
annual action planned. Thank you. Council, any questions?

502
00:47:04,870 --> 00:47:06,130
Council member Nuller and then

503
00:47:06,130 --> 00:47:11,330
Council member Miller for she? Yeah, just for my edification. This is my first time seeing

504
00:47:11,330 --> 00:47:18,510
something like this. Could you explain and forgive me if I just missed it? The reasoning behind

505
00:47:18,510 --> 00:47:23,970
recommending money for a category in which there was no request versus not fully meeting categories

506
00:47:23,970 --> 00:47:25,810
in which requests were made.

507
00:47:28,350 --> 00:47:30,630
Can you say which categories you're developing?

508
00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:35,050
Yeah, so the chart shows there was nothing requested for neighborhood revitalization, but

509
00:47:35,050 --> 00:47:36,590
we recommended 104,000.

510
00:47:36,870 --> 00:47:41,990
So that falls under a affordable house, so neighborhood revitalization is a place that

511
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:45,070
you can put money to sit pretty much until it's needed.

512
00:47:45,530 --> 00:47:48,830
And since we didn't get any more affordable housing projects,

513
00:47:51,150 --> 00:47:53,790
there's we can't put it in

514
00:47:53,790 --> 00:47:57,710
There's a cap on the other side.

515
00:47:57,710 --> 00:47:58,070
Thank you.

516
00:48:03,190 --> 00:48:04,610
Thank you.

517
00:48:04,610 --> 00:48:09,010
Um, adhering to CBG, CDBG allocation requirements.

518
00:48:09,250 --> 00:48:13,470
Can you tell me how you all in your review of the applications?

519
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:20,370
How your office worked with our DEI office in reviewing these applications?

520
00:48:21,610 --> 00:48:25,050
Um, so my understanding is that, um,

521
00:48:25,050 --> 00:48:40,830
Our DEI officer sits on the application review committee, and this year staff, typically when there's been more competitive applications, so we have multiple applications vying for a limited amount of pools and everyone can't be fully funded.

522
00:48:41,470 --> 00:48:47,710
They have done the initial review and come up with their recommendation and a meeting.

523
00:48:47,710 --> 00:48:56,930
And this year, because all of the projects that applied could be fully funded that weren't subject to a cap,

524
00:48:57,190 --> 00:49:05,790
staff did the recommendation, delivered it to the application review committee, and they unanimously supported the recommendation.

525
00:49:05,870 --> 00:49:07,210
I meant to say that in the presentation.

526
00:49:07,810 --> 00:49:14,690
Thank you, and the applicant who was unable to get their application in on time.

527
00:49:14,690 --> 00:49:37,610
Did you all have any follow-up to assess any barriers that they had, any kind of assistance because when we're looking at our community partners, capacity can be an issue for some of them, and I'm just wondering what ways are we doing that kind of follow-up and being able to ensure success for potential applicants?

528
00:49:39,330 --> 00:49:59,970
I know that this was, I wasn't handling the applications at the time, but I know that there was communication between them and the person receiving the applications about whether to submit it in acknowledgement that it was late and they decided to submit it after that.

529
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:06,100
So, was a assistance given to meet that deadline? I'm not sure if there is.

530
00:50:08,020 --> 00:50:15,100
I'll add that we do offer to any applicant for any of our funding sources, a post-application meeting.

531
00:50:15,820 --> 00:50:23,440
RCP has applied before and not had issues submitting on time, so this was an unfortunate unusual.

532
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:29,860
circumstance. It is not been an issue in the past, but we would offer to them in any applicant

533
00:50:29,860 --> 00:50:35,760
post application meaning to talk about barriers or anything that we could do differently to improve

534
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,500
our process. Thank you.

535
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:47,310
Any other questions, council? Okay. Then we'll move to public comment.

536
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:55,480
No. We will not move to public comment. Okay, council, any final comments?

537
00:50:57,850 --> 00:50:58,290
Fantastic.

538
00:50:58,430 --> 00:51:03,570
We will take action in June, is that correct?

539
00:51:03,910 --> 00:51:04,430
That's fine.

540
00:51:04,610 --> 00:51:04,830
All right.

541
00:51:05,370 --> 00:51:06,370
Thank you very much.

542
00:51:07,630 --> 00:51:09,030
Next up, item five.

543
00:51:10,050 --> 00:51:13,490
Consider approving the recommended affordable housing funding plan.

544
00:51:14,570 --> 00:51:21,490
We have Emily Holt again for a and we have our director of affordable housing

545
00:51:21,490 --> 00:51:23,210
and community serving us up.

546
00:51:23,470 --> 00:51:23,690
Welcome.

547
00:51:24,430 --> 00:51:25,430
Thank you.

548
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:29,750
Mayor and Council, I'm Sarah Venus, Director of Affordable Housing and Community Connections.

549
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:34,910
And I'm joined by Emily Holder, our Affordable Housing Manager to present our Affordable

550
00:51:34,910 --> 00:51:36,890
Housing Funding Plan.

551
00:51:37,990 --> 00:51:43,670
I'll provide you with very brief background on our application process and the funds that

552
00:51:43,670 --> 00:51:45,890
were available to this application cycle.

553
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:50,910
We'll then walk you through the projects that requested funding and our proposed funding

554
00:51:50,910 --> 00:51:51,450
plan.

555
00:51:54,110 --> 00:52:04,490
This evening, we're asking that Council consider approval of the recommended affordable housing funding plan is outlined in resolution R3 in your packets.

556
00:52:06,710 --> 00:52:21,570
The recommended funding plan that's before you this evening would allocate $1.66 million in local funding sources to develop 66 new affordable units and preserve 10 units of affordable housing in the community.

557
00:52:21,570 --> 00:52:27,950
About 20% of the units will serve zero to 30% AMI households.

558
00:52:29,090 --> 00:52:34,150
These projects also will leverage a significant amount of funding from outside sources

559
00:52:34,150 --> 00:52:39,810
over $20 million or 92% of the total project costs.

560
00:52:40,410 --> 00:52:43,750
It's also worth underscoring how exciting this is.

561
00:52:43,890 --> 00:52:48,830
We had a really great slate of projects that applied for funding and supporting these

562
00:52:48,830 --> 00:52:57,390
project will advance councils affordable housing goals and very much align with your complete community vision to create an inclusive community.

563
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:11,860
We put out a call for funding applications in February of this year using our established common funding application that we use for all of our local affordable housing sources.

564
00:53:11,860 --> 00:53:17,220
In total, we had up to $2.35 million available total.

565
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:20,880
This amount is more than we had originally anticipated.

566
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,060
Thanks to the Community Project funding award

567
00:53:24,060 --> 00:53:27,340
that we received just a few weeks ago for the Tanner Branch

568
00:53:27,340 --> 00:53:32,360
Trace Project, which allowed us to re-allocate the $1.5 million

569
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:35,920
that the town had originally committed to this project,

570
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:43,620
along with $50,000 dedicated for a 2023 LITEC project that was no longer needed.

571
00:53:44,620 --> 00:53:50,520
This year staff reviewed and evaluated the applications rather than the Housing Advisory Board.

572
00:53:50,940 --> 00:54:00,300
This change is consistent with the Council approved affordable housing plan recommendations and the Housing Advisory Board's approved charge,

573
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:09,420
which outlines that the Habs role is to identify funding priorities rather than to make specific recommendations about projects.

574
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:18,760
Staff used the scoring rubric that was developed by the Housing Advisory Board to guide our evaluation of funding applications.

575
00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:27,510
We received six total applications from our partners totaling $1.7 million.

576
00:54:27,510 --> 00:54:35,250
We have provided more details on each of the applications in the recommended funding plan overview that's in your packet.

577
00:54:36,210 --> 00:54:46,530
The project seeking funding vary greatly from medium size long-come housing tax credit rental projects to rehab work on a single family home.

578
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:52,910
They generally fall into three categories, new construction, rehabilitation and acquisition.

579
00:54:52,910 --> 00:54:59,850
We are recommending fully funding five of the six applications that we received.

580
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:05,160
And Emily will talk more about that when we review our recommended funding plan.

581
00:55:05,860 --> 00:55:25,340
Instead of what's been proposed by Habitat for Humanity for the Pine Nulls Home Repair Project, staff proposed that they work with the established county home preservation coalition to develop more cost-effective scope that still meets the family's needs for repair to their home.

582
00:55:25,340 --> 00:55:31,880
The renovation budget as proposed for this project exceeds the assess value of the home.

583
00:55:32,460 --> 00:55:47,900
This is not a best practice and we believe through our discussions with the home preservation coalition leadership that there are alternative options to be considered prior to the town dedicated funding to support this project.

584
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,800
Additionally, we have learned that habitat will not impose any affordability restrictions

585
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,900
on this home or any in their existing home repair program.

586
00:55:58,380 --> 00:56:02,900
The town would expect to see an affordability restriction in place for rehab project

587
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:04,580
of the scope and amount.

588
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:10,900
Now I'll turn it over to Emily to walk you through the details of our recommended funding

589
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:11,740
plan.

590
00:56:17,070 --> 00:56:18,170
Good evening again.

591
00:56:21,310 --> 00:56:40,710
So, in the new construction project category, we received one application, which staff are recommending the town fully fund, tap the taff mills group and the community home trust both applied together for funding for the 2025 low income housing tax credit project that council approved a rezoning for last week long leaf trace.

592
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:48,990
The project will create nearly 50 units of affordable housing serving senior households earning 60% of the area needed income or less.

593
00:56:51,190 --> 00:57:01,650
The project has received the perfect score on their preliminary tax credit application and if the project receives that award, it will break ground in summer 2025 and will open in winter of 2027.

594
00:57:04,470 --> 00:57:18,670
staff are recommending that the town fund two rehab projects. The first request is from community home trust for the repair of a duplex acquired through the town's inclusionary zoning ordinance and a neighborhood completed in 2017.

595
00:57:19,730 --> 00:57:27,250
The project would support correcting critical foundation issues in two units occupied by households earning between 80 and 100% AMI.

596
00:57:27,470 --> 00:57:30,430
If funded they could start and finish the work within a few months.

597
00:57:31,210 --> 00:57:44,150
The second project is a request from a new partner, residential services incorporated to support the renovation of a single family home to create six units for individuals with intellectual and developmental disabilities.

598
00:57:44,970 --> 00:57:53,670
The units would be occupied by four households earning below 30% of the area median income and two below 60% of the area median income.

599
00:57:53,670 --> 00:57:57,330
If funding construction would be complete by summer of 2025,

600
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,980
and finally staff are recommending that the town fund

601
00:58:02,980 --> 00:58:04,940
to acquisition projects this year.

602
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,000
Empowerment has applied for funding to support the acquisition

603
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,060
of an eight unit naturally occurring affordable housing community on

604
00:58:12,060 --> 00:58:12,680
Davy Circle.

605
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,620
This project received the highest percentage score of all the applicants.

606
00:58:17,660 --> 00:58:21,000
All current households are in between 30 and 60 percent,

607
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,140
sorry, all current households are in between 30 and 60 percent of AMI

608
00:58:25,140 --> 00:58:27,500
and could remain living in their units if acquired.

609
00:58:28,060 --> 00:58:30,360
If funded, the project could close by the end of the summer.

610
00:58:31,220 --> 00:58:34,320
The town also recommends funding habitat for humanities requests

611
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:37,200
for funding to acquire land out of the North Side Land Bank

612
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:39,560
to build 12 first-scale town homes

613
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,540
for the first-time home buyers earning

614
00:58:41,540 --> 00:58:44,360
between 30 and 80% of area median income.

615
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:48,440
If funded, the project could close on the acquisition this summer,

616
00:58:48,740 --> 00:58:51,700
and units could be completed by spring of 2027.

617
00:58:54,020 --> 00:58:56,040
As a reminder tonight, we are asking Council

618
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:01,880
to consider approval of the recommended affordable housing funding plan as outlined in resolution

619
00:59:02,740 --> 00:59:03,420
R3.

620
00:59:06,330 --> 00:59:06,910
Thank you.

621
00:59:07,110 --> 00:59:07,290
Council.

622
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:13,520
Councilmember Nullard followed by Councilmember Miller Fushi.

623
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:16,260
Thanks for this presentation.

624
00:59:16,460 --> 00:59:19,500
I have a question about the unmet habitat request.

625
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:25,560
I suspect some of my colleagues have probably seen the same thing which is that they feel

626
00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:29,580
strongly that this is the only viable source for this repair and that the

627
00:59:29,580 --> 00:59:36,300
an exigent circumstances faced by this family mean that the normal rule of thumb about exceeding

628
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:42,940
assessed value for repair is one that we should contextually disregard in this case.

629
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:47,040
And you mentioned that there is another source of funding you think would be more appropriate

630
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:52,880
or another county partner. Could you describe what precisely it is that they would be drawing

631
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,900
on and are you confident that that money is there and available and that they'll be competitive

632
00:59:56,900 --> 00:59:59,980
for it. Sure. So what we are reckoning.

633
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:05,780
Recommending is that they continue to work with the existing countywide home preservation coalition.

634
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:10,820
And there have been lots of conversations about this particular property.

635
01:00:12,420 --> 01:00:15,840
And that is the structure that the town is supporting.

636
01:00:16,220 --> 01:00:19,300
We resource that coalition through our CDBG funding.

637
01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:26,180
And that is a system that's been put in place through our county to try to centralize all requests through that.

638
01:00:26,180 --> 01:00:34,480
So we are trying to support that structure and encourage habitat to work through that structure

639
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:39,600
and the coalition to determine a path forward for this project.

640
01:00:42,170 --> 01:00:43,670
Councillor Member Miller Miller for she?

641
01:00:46,830 --> 01:00:55,650
So is it possible then the CDBG funds that we were just looking at and the allocation for affordable housing

642
01:00:55,650 --> 01:01:03,290
that category that you all set aside those funds are you saying that that is potentially a funding

643
01:01:03,290 --> 01:01:09,910
resource that they would be able to tap into. Potentially that's this that is our resource that

644
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:15,670
we used to support the coalition. Okay and it could be that there are additional sources needed

645
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:23,710
but I think the interest is in trying to channel everything through that existing structure. Thank you.

646
01:01:23,710 --> 01:01:25,190
Council Member Stegmond?

647
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:29,120
Just to help.

648
01:01:29,580 --> 01:01:30,220
I'm just going to begin.

649
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:35,680
I think in addition to that, there would be, I think, the recommendation is also

650
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:41,460
for there to be further conversation about whether the proposed approach to rehabbing the

651
01:01:41,460 --> 01:01:44,940
house is the best and most cost effective one.

652
01:01:47,770 --> 01:01:52,290
And just to clarify the affordability restrictions.

653
01:01:52,290 --> 01:01:54,630
And so if I'm understanding it correctly,

654
01:01:54,790 --> 01:01:57,990
you're saying that kind of aesthetically,

655
01:01:58,210 --> 01:02:02,510
we could decide tonight to cover that request.

656
01:02:04,510 --> 01:02:07,330
But then the family could sell the house

657
01:02:07,330 --> 01:02:11,090
a year from now, and that many would kind of,

658
01:02:11,210 --> 01:02:13,110
it's important money for the family,

659
01:02:13,390 --> 01:02:16,270
but it would be, sort of, from the time

660
01:02:16,270 --> 01:02:18,610
it would be going to create housing at that point.

661
01:02:19,170 --> 01:02:21,770
Yes, there would be no, as proposed there would be no

662
01:02:21,770 --> 01:02:26,010
affordability restriction on the project, so that is a possibility.

663
01:02:27,230 --> 01:02:28,110
Thank you.

664
01:02:28,410 --> 01:02:29,610
Council Member McCullough?

665
01:02:32,820 --> 01:02:33,120
Michael?

666
01:02:38,220 --> 01:02:39,500
Two questions.

667
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:48,540
Is the town legally able to place the affordability restrictions on this property if we

668
01:02:48,540 --> 01:02:54,240
help pay to have it renovated slash an addition put on?

669
01:02:54,240 --> 01:03:04,680
So we usually impose affordability requirements through our performance agreements, as well as sometimes through a deed restriction on the property.

670
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:08,900
I'm sorry, is that a yes or a no?

671
01:03:09,160 --> 01:03:09,480
Yes.

672
01:03:09,980 --> 01:03:10,940
Okay, thank you.

673
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:22,580
The second question is, if we, if we approve this tonight and that addition, that renovation is not in here.

674
01:03:22,580 --> 01:03:31,240
And can it, and if so, will it, when will it come back to us for us to look at what

675
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:35,940
would the other options in terms of additions or renovations or fixing?

676
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:42,300
And what would the other options for funding and giving us the opportunity to help give

677
01:03:42,300 --> 01:03:43,480
this family relief?

678
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:48,520
So what your question is what other funding sources could be considered?

679
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:55,580
My question is, if we approve this plan tonight without that house being in it,

680
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:04,640
when will that, all those questions, all those unanswered questions, once they are answered,

681
01:04:05,580 --> 01:04:12,580
when will it come back to us such that we can find a way to fund it and alleviate the stress of the family?

682
01:04:12,580 --> 01:04:18,080
So it could be funded through the Home Preservation Coalition, which evaluates projects.

683
01:04:18,740 --> 01:04:28,640
If other funding is needed, we do have the Affordable Housing Fund, which we accept requests through that funding source on a rolling basis at any time.

684
01:04:29,560 --> 01:04:34,520
Or we would likely be releasing another RFP for the development reserve in the summer.

685
01:04:35,680 --> 01:04:41,960
So there would be multiple opportunities in the short term for them to reapply for funding.

686
01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:48,500
And will those other options be being explored in the meantime?

687
01:04:50,990 --> 01:04:51,110
Yes.

688
01:04:51,290 --> 01:04:54,670
We are recommending that they work through the home preservation course.

689
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:56,050
Thank you.

690
01:04:57,070 --> 01:04:57,890
Council member Berry.

691
01:04:58,770 --> 01:04:59,390
Thank you.

692
01:04:59,450 --> 01:04:59,970
Thank you for this.

693
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:11,100
Presentation. My question starts with the repairs that are at question. It's my understanding that some of

694
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:24,020
these are to correct unpermitted work that has been done. Can you share a little bit more about if there's anything else that we should

695
01:05:24,020 --> 01:05:28,060
you're aware of that when it's in consideration of this decision?

696
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:45,800
A piece of it is demolishing a current addition that was put in and then replacing it with a new one that would be a better would follow regulations and be a better fit for the family.

697
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:51,040
Okay, so it's not simply just about the value.

698
01:05:51,580 --> 01:05:57,080
This decision isn't based simply on the value of the home versus the repair or maybe on this

699
01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:57,460
reading.

700
01:05:57,720 --> 01:05:58,620
Our recommendation.

701
01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:01,560
I mean, I think it's multiple things.

702
01:06:01,700 --> 01:06:07,140
I mean, I think it's the value, it's the structure that it's preferred to go through a different

703
01:06:07,140 --> 01:06:12,740
structure, although it's allowable to apply for funding outside of that.

704
01:06:15,610 --> 01:06:16,330
Thank you.

705
01:06:21,130 --> 01:06:24,030
I think you answered this, but I'm just going to make sure I understand it.

706
01:06:24,030 --> 01:06:30,590
you are wanting folks to go through an orange county process, but they are allowed to go through

707
01:06:30,590 --> 01:06:34,750
this process, but we're trying to get them to go through the orange county process. So could

708
01:06:34,750 --> 01:06:41,250
you tell me what are we trying to accomplish? Or I guess what,

709
01:06:43,290 --> 01:06:45,490
I mean, it's not common time,

710
01:06:45,670 --> 01:06:51,410
but I'll say the deed restriction or the affordability restriction is of interest to me to understand.

711
01:06:51,410 --> 01:07:02,950
But I am a little confused about what we're asking them to do or how long it would take for them to then get funding should they go through the Orange County process.

712
01:07:04,370 --> 01:07:13,230
So it's it's not just to clarify it's not an Orange County government led it this is a community coalition that's led by.

713
01:07:13,230 --> 01:07:23,130
by and who's here and spoke earlier and involves all of the organizations in the county that do rehab work on affordable housing projects.

714
01:07:23,310 --> 01:07:29,650
And this is a structure that the town has helped support for several years now through our CDBG funding.

715
01:07:30,530 --> 01:07:34,590
And so the idea is to try to channel rehab projects through that.

716
01:07:34,830 --> 01:07:40,410
And they meet regularly, they evaluate requests, they determine the sequence, they review the scope.

717
01:07:41,310 --> 01:07:44,030
There has been a lot of conversation about this one.

718
01:07:44,050 --> 01:07:49,030
They've determined it does have challenges and that is not necessarily a good fit and it's

719
01:07:49,030 --> 01:07:49,530
current scope.

720
01:07:49,550 --> 01:07:55,090
That's why we are encouraging them to go back and work with that team of experts to determine

721
01:07:55,090 --> 01:08:00,270
a path forward that is cost-effective that still meets the family's need.

722
01:08:01,210 --> 01:08:06,810
So that is not to say we have funded other preservation projects but typically for small

723
01:08:06,810 --> 01:08:11,350
we have projects of this kind. We are trying to channel those through that structure.

724
01:08:11,530 --> 01:08:17,710
Got it. So it's not like they would have to wait for a county level, a county government decision.

725
01:08:19,330 --> 01:08:34,410
I think it's time for public comment. Council member Ryan will call out the first name and then we'll ask the second person to come down and sit in front to be ready to go.

726
01:08:34,410 --> 01:08:38,410
Okay, we have Christine Abernathy first followed by Kimberly Sanchez.

727
01:08:51,020 --> 01:08:55,200
President, but is it okay if we switch order based on the questions we've heard from you?

728
01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:57,400
It's fine with me.

729
01:08:57,520 --> 01:08:57,680
Wait.

730
01:09:01,420 --> 01:09:02,620
I don't mind going first.

731
01:09:03,420 --> 01:09:06,620
Hello and good evening Mayor and Council.

732
01:09:07,820 --> 01:09:11,040
First I want to say thank you for your continued support of affordable housing.

733
01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:13,900
I know it's not an easy job to balance priorities.

734
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:17,860
Your continued commitment to increasing affordable housing is not always popular.

735
01:09:17,860 --> 01:09:22,400
But thank you for the resolve you show on this complex topic.

736
01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:27,120
You have created numerous affordable housing opportunities for members of this community.

737
01:09:28,060 --> 01:09:30,200
The President example of being this funding recommendation.

738
01:09:31,220 --> 01:09:34,540
With my CHD hat, thank you for considering our project,

739
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:38,000
and the funding necessary to fix critical foundation issues.

740
01:09:39,060 --> 01:09:42,600
Thank you also for considering approval to fund long leave trace.

741
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:48,360
the tax credit project that CHD is co-developing and was approved by you with lots of positive energy

742
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:54,880
last week. Thank you for moving that forward. It was awesome to see expedited review, work first

743
01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:59,880
hand. It only took about four months. So thank you. Thank you.

744
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:09,540
Thank you. Now with my coalition hat on, I want to take this opportunity to note something. The $950,000 recommendation

745
01:10:09,540 --> 01:10:16,920
for long leave trace is actually, as you may have done the math, a lot more than what was

746
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:25,520
originally available $800,000. That is because of the surprise money that we got that also went

747
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:29,400
the other tax credit project, which was awesome, however.

748
01:10:32,380 --> 01:10:33,880
Tax credit projects are prioritized

749
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:39,920
by the sound, and that's awesome. But if you'll note, and this is, I think, the best

750
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:46,160
example, is that if there's a tax credit project and there are other projects that are

751
01:10:46,160 --> 01:10:51,100
necessary and needed, which you see in your funding recommendation, that tax credit project is

752
01:10:51,100 --> 01:10:53,580
and got a lot of hold time of money.

753
01:10:54,180 --> 01:10:57,100
And without some supplemental funding, like a bond,

754
01:10:57,860 --> 01:10:59,320
there's not going to be a lot of opportunity

755
01:10:59,320 --> 01:11:02,380
for other projects to go forward.

756
01:11:02,980 --> 01:11:05,440
And I really wanted to make that point here as an example,

757
01:11:05,700 --> 01:11:08,700
because I've listened to a lot of your work sessions,

758
01:11:08,740 --> 01:11:11,240
and I've heard of the question, what happens

759
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,120
if we don't do this now?

760
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:15,820
And I think this is the best example

761
01:11:15,820 --> 01:11:17,340
that I can give you.

762
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:20,160
And in point out, it's just that if there's

763
01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:25,460
some additional dollars, then maybe there's a tax credit project, which there are

764
01:11:25,460 --> 01:11:26,380
the American Legion.

765
01:11:29,480 --> 01:11:32,700
It's just going to gobble it all up. And so what I'm

766
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:36,880
asking is, well, what I'm saying is, thank you. But I'm also with my coalition and my

767
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:42,940
CHT had at the same time, asking that you please consider a bond for 2024, and

768
01:11:42,940 --> 01:11:47,460
as the coalition is asking at the 35 million dollar amount.

769
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:49,380
So, thanks again.

770
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:51,180
Thank you.

771
01:11:53,590 --> 01:11:56,670
Okay, Christine Abernathy followed by the Loris Bailey.

772
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:06,320
That's fun.

773
01:12:06,840 --> 01:12:08,040
How have what are works for you guys?

774
01:12:11,080 --> 01:12:11,860
Hello again.

775
01:12:12,840 --> 01:12:15,540
So, I'm Ryan LeValien, one of the co-ordinators

776
01:12:15,540 --> 01:12:17,780
and leadership of the Home Preservation Coalition,

777
01:12:18,020 --> 01:12:19,160
the Orange County Home Preservation,

778
01:12:19,320 --> 01:12:21,180
not affiliated with Orange County Government,

779
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:22,740
but we work in Orange County.

780
01:12:22,740 --> 01:12:26,620
And we are a sort of partnership of different home repair

781
01:12:26,620 --> 01:12:29,760
organizations. And I just want to offer some clarifying comments

782
01:12:29,760 --> 01:12:32,900
around the particular case that you all are discussing with Habitat's

783
01:12:32,900 --> 01:12:36,160
proposal. First I want to recognize that this actually did come

784
01:12:36,160 --> 01:12:38,780
through the coalition to some extent. We discussed various

785
01:12:38,780 --> 01:12:41,640
options as to how to serve this particular family.

786
01:12:42,220 --> 01:12:46,140
But given the CDBG sort of standards that we see around the

787
01:12:46,140 --> 01:12:49,540
general average amount that we're usually allocated through the

788
01:12:49,540 --> 01:12:55,600
of Chapel Hill, it wasn't a good fit for us to be able to actually use CDBG funds to fix that home

789
01:12:55,600 --> 01:13:00,640
and the different issues that we're going on there. So this was discussed, but we had sort of

790
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:06,580
determined there wasn't a way forward. And then I think because of you know,

791
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:12,260
tenaciousness and interests have it had applied for this through a different fund that we

792
01:13:12,260 --> 01:13:18,660
hadn't actually ever used before for preservation. And so we weren't as in coordination in that moment

793
01:13:18,660 --> 01:13:24,140
that's probably my fault and that we weren't communicating as much, but really recognizing that

794
01:13:24,140 --> 01:13:29,480
they were trying to solve a really wicked problem with this particular home. And so I think

795
01:13:29,480 --> 01:13:35,220
recognizing that and moving forward as we think about how the town funds repairs, typically we

796
01:13:35,220 --> 01:13:41,160
don't need this much money to do this sort of work. And that's why this is sort of an out of

797
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:48,320
situation, out of the typical ways that we're going through these processes. But at the same time,

798
01:13:48,660 --> 01:13:53,120
And I think it's a really challenging situation for this family.

799
01:13:54,000 --> 01:13:58,600
And so if we can either think about yes coming through CDBG, but really recognizing that

800
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:04,080
we're going to spend a lot more than we would usually spend through CDBG funding or moving

801
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:09,080
through this through a different fund in the town, that would also be an option.

802
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:13,600
But I just wanted to clarify that there was discussion before Habitat went through this through

803
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:14,200
the coalition.

804
01:14:14,200 --> 01:14:21,380
It's just we had thought there was no way forward and, you know, our assessor, which is the rebuilding together,

805
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:25,880
had sort of understood that there wasn't an option with the current funding situation.

806
01:14:26,660 --> 01:14:36,120
I also want to just speak to the affordability requirement and recognize that when we see that being used in other spaces,

807
01:14:36,300 --> 01:14:42,760
it disproportionately affects Black families, long-term residents and people who are really interested in wealth retention

808
01:14:42,760 --> 01:14:46,400
I'm not allowing them to really use those options,

809
01:14:46,760 --> 01:14:47,900
particularly in rural Orange County.

810
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:48,980
We see that as well.

811
01:14:49,480 --> 01:14:51,080
So I would discourage that use,

812
01:14:51,420 --> 01:14:54,360
maybe yes, commit to keeping them in the home,

813
01:14:54,520 --> 01:14:57,600
but not necessarily requiring that affordability clause,

814
01:14:58,240 --> 01:14:58,420
definitely.

815
01:14:59,560 --> 01:14:59,960
So that's right, that way.

816
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,420
Wasn't as clear I didn't write it out.

817
01:15:02,700 --> 01:15:04,180
Thank you.

818
01:15:06,300 --> 01:15:14,080
Christine? Okay. And then to lower space. Now you are ready. I'm always ready, but I appreciate

819
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:21,900
you honoring a little bit of order. Hi. I'm Christine. I work for the Mary and Chief Jackson Center.

820
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:29,000
And I'm speaking to you today in the capacity of someone who really walks side by side with homeowners

821
01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:35,560
who are in need of repair support, and it's an honor to do it, and it's a challenge.

822
01:15:36,800 --> 01:15:43,080
And for most homeowners, we are not the first place they call. We're the last place.

823
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:52,000
I can't think of anyone who would want to be calling a group of mostly strangers to ask for help

824
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:57,100
because they're drowning in significant need and lack of finances to be able to cover it.

825
01:15:57,100 --> 01:16:04,520
So I'm just, you know, that's a little bit of context of kind of a role that we play for this particular repair and pine needles.

826
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:11,280
I know that it was like denied due to like some degree of concern around the investment and that high cost.

827
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:16,020
I wanted to provide a little bit of information about the homeowner and some of my perspective.

828
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:23,480
So when I talked to the homeowner and I said, what would you like me to share with Council as they're looking at this application?

829
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:31,800
she said, Ms. Christine, I don't want to come before anyone else. I'm fine. Please don't worry about me.

830
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:40,160
And if you knew her, you would know that that is her outlook, but that is not her specific situation.

831
01:16:41,140 --> 01:16:49,480
She is a single mom and she has an adult daughter with cerebral palsy who is nonverbal and cannot move independently.

832
01:16:50,120 --> 01:17:01,700
If you all know the homes in Northside and Pinealls, you know that they're small, so it's a very modest home, and the doorways are not wide enough for her to be able to navigate, moving her daughter around in a wheelchair.

833
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:10,360
This homeowner is like five foot nothing, and her daughter is bigger, and she said that it's gotten a lot harder as her daughter has gotten older.

834
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:33,780
So, when she came to the coalition about this repair her daughter was 16, her daughter's now 18 and she has to figure out how to fit a hospital bed, a ventilator, where to store the wheelchair that she has trouble using and a lift that she can't actually use but that she would use to lift her daughter up out of bed so that you can get her clothes on, Bay, etc.

835
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:37,220
But she's not able to use that in the home because it doesn't fit.

836
01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:42,920
She's also has to physically lift her daughter every time they need to bathe her to get her into the tub.

837
01:17:44,740 --> 01:17:47,940
And these are things that no one would want to be enduring,

838
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:50,840
and no one would want to have to go to a group of strangers

839
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:55,100
or to a group of folks sitting on council to have to try to solve.

840
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,740
We are here because this is an opportunity for collaboration,

841
01:18:00,140 --> 01:18:03,100
but it's also an opportunity of not having found

842
01:18:03,100 --> 01:18:10,480
that way that this can work yet, and so I'll just ask that I know she has said that she

843
01:18:10,480 --> 01:18:15,040
doesn't want to come before anyone else or over any other repair, but I also just ask that you

844
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:16,560
don't leave her behind tonight.

845
01:18:18,850 --> 01:18:23,920
Thank you. Laura Spayley, followed by Taylor Phillips.

846
01:18:26,090 --> 01:18:26,450
Good evening.

847
01:18:27,330 --> 01:18:33,350
Madam Mayor, council members, Mr. Town Manager. My name is Laura Spayley. I'm the Executive Director

848
01:18:33,350 --> 01:18:39,570
empowerment incorporated. Thank you for allowing me to speak tonight. First I'd like to thank

849
01:18:39,570 --> 01:18:45,470
you for your support of the peach apartments. These units are for individuals and families

850
01:18:45,470 --> 01:18:52,750
earning 30% AMI. Thankfully, this time next year those units will be up and would be occupied and

851
01:18:52,750 --> 01:18:56,930
we all can take a pat ourselves on the back for that. So excited.

852
01:18:59,930 --> 01:19:01,130
The families and the population

853
01:19:01,130 --> 01:19:08,290
that mismatch you spoke of before. Empowerment has become to embrace deeply. Those earning 30%

854
01:19:08,290 --> 01:19:16,150
between 60% and 30% but specifically at the 30% AMI. We want to continue to address low-wealth

855
01:19:16,150 --> 01:19:23,170
earning populations. Davy Circle is a NOAA project of eight affordable rental units.

856
01:19:23,930 --> 01:19:30,470
NOAA's by definitions are affordable housing that has no federal subsidy in it. What we do with

857
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:34,830
is protect the sanctity and the affordability of the property.

858
01:19:36,090 --> 01:19:42,090
For Davy Circle, there are eight units with families and individuals living in those affordably now.

859
01:19:42,810 --> 01:19:45,570
If you know anything about Franklin Street and where Davy Circle is,

860
01:19:45,750 --> 01:19:51,670
it's a wonderful location for families that work at UNC back and forth to the

861
01:19:51,670 --> 01:19:55,330
down to the Dollar Tree or to all these, it's a great location

862
01:19:55,330 --> 01:19:57,890
and when we wouldn't want to lose to a developer.

863
01:19:59,210 --> 01:19:59,970
Thank you for understanding.

864
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:23,340
Standing how important no is are. Funding this project tonight means that these units will become permanently affordable. It also means these families will not be displaced. Supporting no or projects like this, fulfills the council's desire to continue to increase affordable housing for families living between 30 and 60 AMI.

865
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:29,060
This is empowerment's first of three normal projects that we're doing.

866
01:20:29,480 --> 01:20:32,540
This is one of two that we're doing in Chapel Hill.

867
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:44,240
This new project and the other one that we are considering on MLK will add approximately 15 to 20 affordable and 2 units to Chapel Hill.

868
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:45,880
Thank you.

869
01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:47,980
Thank you.

870
01:20:48,460 --> 01:20:52,360
Taylor Phillips and that's the last person I have signed up on this issue.

871
01:20:55,360 --> 01:20:59,560
Hello, I'm Taylor Phillips, I'm the Home Repair Manager at Habitat for Humanity of Orange County.

872
01:21:00,300 --> 01:21:08,680
I wanted to come up and kind of lend some context on the construction side of the Pine Old Project.

873
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:23,400
The addition that we are proposing be replaced was built in probably the 1960s or 1970s and was kind of a inherently temporary structure when it was built.

874
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:28,500
And I would say that it is kind of reached its service life.

875
01:21:29,500 --> 01:21:35,540
It is done what it needed to do for the cost that it cost to build it way back then.

876
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:51,380
In order to ensure that the space that the daughter is living in meets the current code and standards about safety and longevity,

877
01:21:52,160 --> 01:21:55,220
that is something we have built into our proposal.

878
01:21:57,580 --> 01:21:59,820
I feel that when we go

879
01:21:59,820 --> 01:22:05,160
out to houses and we're doing repairs that if those repairs last for three

880
01:22:05,160 --> 01:22:11,320
five, seven years and the homeowners have permanent problems they are dealing

881
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:18,640
with that those needs are not being met. It's just a band-aid fix. It's a patch and I

882
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,840
I think we should strive to not have to return tones

883
01:22:22,840 --> 01:22:26,500
that have already been through these kinds of processes.

884
01:22:28,340 --> 01:22:33,380
So far as the alternative fundings for this kind of project,

885
01:22:34,700 --> 01:22:36,960
I mean, you heard that CDBG is sort of being recommended

886
01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:41,240
for something like 72,000 in actual operating costs

887
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:42,640
for five homes.

888
01:22:43,500 --> 01:22:46,920
I don't really see how this would fit into that.

889
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,460
It's very difficult, fine, it was so far

890
01:22:49,460 --> 01:22:52,280
as the Orange County Conservation Coalition,

891
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:54,900
one of our largest partners, Orange County,

892
01:22:55,060 --> 01:22:58,240
seems to have put a IATIS on there.

893
01:22:59,820 --> 01:23:01,860
A pair of program temporarily.

894
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:07,340
These larger repairs are really difficult to fund

895
01:23:08,040 --> 01:23:11,240
and really even get started on with all the discussion.

896
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:14,200
There are two years into discussing this home.

897
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:21,860
So, I think, from our perspective at Habitat, we have stepped up and will say, we'll do the work.

898
01:23:22,540 --> 01:23:25,260
I will be doing the work. I'll be onsite doing that work.

899
01:23:26,740 --> 01:23:29,140
So, I would ask that you reconsider.

900
01:23:31,850 --> 01:23:32,790
Thank you.

901
01:23:33,950 --> 01:23:34,830
Thank you.

902
01:23:37,370 --> 01:23:47,070
I would like to as much as she's comfortable as our town attorney, just to give us any guidance we might need on this

903
01:23:47,070 --> 01:23:50,070
particular complex topic.

904
01:23:51,290 --> 01:23:54,690
We're guarding the replacement of the infrastructure.

905
01:23:57,690 --> 01:24:03,530
Yeah, so it's an essential requirement for the allocation of public affordable housing funding,

906
01:24:04,270 --> 01:24:12,090
that the town being the public receive and return a guarantee that affordability will be maintained.

907
01:24:12,730 --> 01:24:18,230
And so that's where we have performance agreements that accompany all of the, you know, every time we provide funding.

908
01:24:19,910 --> 01:24:28,750
If I'm understanding correctly that there hasn't been an offer or an agreement to do anything to preserve the affordability going forward.

909
01:24:29,650 --> 01:24:37,770
So I would just caution you that it's a legal concern for me, and it will be a logistical challenge for staff if,

910
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:42,070
you know,

911
01:24:43,890 --> 01:24:46,730
to provide that funding.

912
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:59,980
Okay, so Council, moving on to comments and just a reminder that we don't want to necessarily give guidance to staff that then has to be undone.

913
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:06,560
Or make things more difficult, but I understand people are where they are. Also, just to remind

914
01:25:06,560 --> 01:25:13,820
that our staff are usually quite interested in making sure we can do whatever we can do legally.

915
01:25:15,660 --> 01:25:18,780
So, with that being said, council comments.

916
01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:20,120
Yes.

917
01:25:21,580 --> 01:25:22,140
Sorry.

918
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:24,500
Councillor Miller, Miller, for you?

919
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:24,940
Yeah.

920
01:25:24,940 --> 01:25:25,480
I'm sorry.

921
01:25:25,660 --> 01:25:34,860
I know that we're in comment, but with the town attorney, that new information, like,

922
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:41,940
break that down for me, public interest money, homeowner gets that

923
01:25:44,240 --> 01:25:45,140
laid where the goats

924
01:25:45,140 --> 01:25:46,280
can get it, so to speak.

925
01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:53,420
What does that mean in terms of like our interests now as a public now that there's affordable housing funds?

926
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,540
What are the implications for the homeowners?

927
01:25:58,960 --> 01:25:59,280
I'm not sure.

928
01:26:00,760 --> 01:26:06,540
So if they decide to go into it agreement, what are the implications then in terms of public interest?

929
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:09,320
Well, this is affordable housing funding.

930
01:26:09,440 --> 01:26:18,020
And this is actually the situation regarding the lack of interest in putting a affordability restriction on this fund.

931
01:26:18,020 --> 01:26:20,980
It's a new information for me, so I'm processing it on the spot.

932
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:23,420
Okay, as you are.

933
01:26:23,900 --> 01:26:28,120
But I will say, it's just an essential requirement that we receive that the public,

934
01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:32,260
and this is public money, receive a return on money that we give.

935
01:26:32,480 --> 01:26:34,540
And in this case, it's affordable housing funding.

936
01:26:35,220 --> 01:26:45,320
And so the public is entitled to receive and return some guarantee that that public interest will continue to be met to some extent.

937
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:50,640
Well, what that specifically would look like in this case, you know, I don't know, without some, that's for future process.

938
01:26:50,700 --> 01:27:02,460
Okay. But it is a concern to me as it is with staff that that is not something that this particular project is willing to do by comparison to all the others.

939
01:27:03,080 --> 01:27:03,340
Thank you for that.

940
01:27:03,340 --> 01:27:09,020
It makes it difficult to craft a performance agreement on behalf of the public.

941
01:27:09,020 --> 01:27:09,660
Okay,

942
01:27:12,080 --> 01:27:19,060
any other questions given our new information and our evolving information, you look

943
01:27:19,060 --> 01:27:22,680
question-y, council member, segment?

944
01:27:24,380 --> 01:27:29,660
I don't know if anyone's here from have a topic and speak to this affordability questions.

945
01:27:30,540 --> 01:27:37,900
Yeah, so yeah, I don't know if you can speak to that yourself or who would make that

946
01:27:37,900 --> 01:27:41,580
that question needs to go back to the homeowner.

947
01:27:41,960 --> 01:27:45,600
I mean, I understand the implications of that decision,

948
01:27:45,940 --> 01:27:50,920
but if that becomes the only barrier to us doing this funding,

949
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,780
is that reconsiderable, I guess, is in the question.

950
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:56,320
Mr. Phillips, if you feel comfortable,

951
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:59,320
and feel like you can answer your welcome to come back up to the podium,

952
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:01,740
but you are not required to do so.

953
01:28:08,050 --> 01:28:10,870
All right, so I'm never like spoken in front of anybody anyone ever.

954
01:28:10,870 --> 01:28:15,290
Don't worry, we're not, we promise we're not as scary as we look at the early.

955
01:28:15,890 --> 01:28:20,950
It's something that has not come up in home preservation so far.

956
01:28:21,730 --> 01:28:25,830
We'd have to because traditionally the projects have been much smaller.

957
01:28:27,410 --> 01:28:32,550
We are currently exploring what it looks like to do these larger projects.

958
01:28:33,470 --> 01:28:40,650
And if there is some kind of mechanism that comes into play when they get large in the budget,

959
01:28:41,990 --> 01:28:51,550
this project was kind of early days with us when the opportunity to apply for this funding source came up.

960
01:28:52,610 --> 01:28:57,550
So I mean we haven't done any kind of play review with the homeowner or anything like that.

961
01:28:57,550 --> 01:29:02,790
You're really good looking at trying to fund it first before we, you know, get

962
01:29:02,790 --> 01:29:06,990
anybody's hopes way up and then disappoint them.

963
01:29:08,050 --> 01:29:09,790
I would hate to see that happen.

964
01:29:10,910 --> 01:29:16,450
So, yeah, I think there's, I probably can, I don't have the authority to say yes.

965
01:29:16,610 --> 01:29:23,390
This is what will happen, but I, I don't think that is out of the question and the

966
01:29:23,390 --> 01:29:25,850
the homeowner seems to be very established in the neighborhood.

967
01:29:27,790 --> 01:29:32,370
So I don't see it as, you know, any kind of exploitation.

968
01:29:33,750 --> 01:29:34,810
Thank you.

969
01:29:35,590 --> 01:29:37,430
And you did great.

970
01:29:38,310 --> 01:29:38,850
Sorry, y'all.

971
01:29:39,030 --> 01:29:40,110
We can't do.

972
01:29:40,990 --> 01:29:42,010
No, we're not.

973
01:29:42,370 --> 01:29:44,050
We've got to keep rolling guys.

974
01:29:44,430 --> 01:29:45,130
Councilmember Berry.

975
01:29:49,990 --> 01:29:53,390
So I received a text message from

976
01:29:54,860 --> 01:29:59,080
Ms. Player, Jennifer Player, Pavitat, today or yesterday.

977
01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:07,120
And suggesting that there were more funds that could be applied to this. Is that the case? Are there more funds?

978
01:30:07,120 --> 01:30:17,620
I was looking back to see the communication. Are there more funds available that haven't been allocated or have all of the funds been distributed in your recommendation?

979
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:22,900
We do have funding available. Thanks to the Community Project funding award.

980
01:30:23,720 --> 01:30:29,280
That allowed us to re-allocate the 1.5 million that have been committed to change your

981
01:30:29,280 --> 01:30:33,400
branch trace and make that available through this funding process.

982
01:30:33,560 --> 01:30:37,220
And that's what is allowing us to fund more projects.

983
01:30:37,800 --> 01:30:43,220
But what staff are proposing is whatever balance is not allocated by Council this evening

984
01:30:43,220 --> 01:30:49,000
would be made available in next year's budget, which would be a great help given that

985
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:54,040
have limited funding available to support affordable housing projects, so that would give us a

986
01:30:54,040 --> 01:30:59,020
little boost next year, which you've heard about at some of your recent budget discussions.

987
01:30:59,940 --> 01:31:01,880
Thank you for that clarification. I appreciate it.

988
01:31:02,940 --> 01:31:07,180
Okay, y'all, if there's no other clarifying questions for attorneys or staff, let's move on to

989
01:31:07,180 --> 01:31:08,100
comments.

990
01:31:10,510 --> 01:31:14,490
Councilmember Miller, for you. Yeah, I just want to say these are really great projects.

991
01:31:14,490 --> 01:31:18,850
I want to apologize to the Towns of Journey for using very country

992
01:31:18,850 --> 01:31:27,410
things, but yeah, these are really great, really want to see some follow-up

993
01:31:27,930 --> 01:31:30,770
with this pine nose repair.

994
01:31:32,630 --> 01:31:38,130
I want to see what the outcomes are and I'm really not sure where to go.

995
01:31:38,130 --> 01:31:45,230
at this point but hopefully those involved with Habitat and working with the family

996
01:31:46,470 --> 01:31:54,530
will be able to continue to be in conversation with organizations and I hope to hear something

997
01:31:55,310 --> 01:32:00,310
more in regards to this because this is really a bit just to me. Thank you.

998
01:32:02,260 --> 01:32:07,240
Council Member Makala. I've been a Council Member Steckman. I just want to say Ditto.

999
01:32:14,700 --> 01:32:16,280
Councilmember Stegman?

1000
01:32:17,780 --> 01:32:25,240
I will did a plus, just to say that this is just a really exciting set of applications

1001
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:28,620
on the Davy Street and the Cedar Hills.

1002
01:32:29,180 --> 01:32:37,180
These are just really exciting innovative projects, a really nice mix of preservation, acquisition,

1003
01:32:37,180 --> 01:32:43,940
and the homes in Carver Street, so it's really exciting to people to vote on this tonight.

1004
01:32:45,600 --> 01:32:57,470
And I also appreciate Miss Sanchez's comment about needing money for all the things and not just the

1005
01:32:57,470 --> 01:32:57,970
LITAC.

1006
01:32:58,150 --> 01:33:02,850
That's a really important reminder of all the great work that is happening in our community beyond

1007
01:33:02,850 --> 01:33:07,610
LITAC, which are really, really important, allow us to do really big things, but there's

1008
01:33:07,610 --> 01:33:13,290
So many other great projects that our partners are working on that it's important for us to support.

1009
01:33:13,950 --> 01:33:23,710
So this is a great example of that, of the variety of needs that we're trying to meet always with non enough funding.

1010
01:33:24,590 --> 01:33:37,250
And also just that, yeah, I don't think we can figure it out tonight, but with really like staff and everyone to keep talking and can kind of stay in touch with us.

1011
01:33:37,250 --> 01:33:40,690
as far as the panel's situation and how we can,

1012
01:33:41,290 --> 01:33:43,430
with all of these amazing partners together,

1013
01:33:43,590 --> 01:33:45,050
I feel like we can figure this out.

1014
01:33:45,110 --> 01:33:47,430
I don't think we can figure it out on the day as this minute,

1015
01:33:48,550 --> 01:33:53,310
but yeah, but I really hope that we can figure that out

1016
01:33:53,310 --> 01:33:58,190
and see if there's ways the town can be a part of figuring that out.

1017
01:33:58,930 --> 01:33:59,810
Thank you.

1018
01:34:01,650 --> 01:34:02,550
I'll count as a member, Barry.

1019
01:34:05,070 --> 01:34:05,950
Thank you.

1020
01:34:05,950 --> 01:34:19,510
as someone who needed assistance was housing secure as someone who worked for an organization

1021
01:34:19,510 --> 01:34:22,810
of partner that provided housing,

1022
01:34:24,830 --> 01:34:28,110
as someone who worked alongside an individual who applied

1023
01:34:28,110 --> 01:34:34,590
for the CDBG funding and additional funds through the town.

1024
01:34:36,150 --> 01:34:41,010
I empathize with those who are applying for the money.

1025
01:34:41,890 --> 01:34:48,870
I also am familiar with the professionalism that our staff brings to this disarmament day

1026
01:34:48,870 --> 01:34:50,570
and a day out.

1027
01:34:53,280 --> 01:34:56,340
I stand behind them in their decision.

1028
01:34:56,340 --> 01:34:59,960
I stand alongside my colleagues in wanting to.

1029
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:09,100
To find a solution for the Pine knows home. I agree with the staff's recommendation that this

1030
01:35:09,100 --> 01:35:17,980
is not the best time, especially in Mr. Phillips comments that they are not that far along when

1031
01:35:17,980 --> 01:35:24,460
they had to submit the application. So if we can figure out a way as someone just said to be a partner

1032
01:35:24,460 --> 01:35:36,030
the town alongside to make a home that is available accessible for this family and meets the towns

1033
01:35:38,820 --> 01:35:47,330
requirements to be leading to be law abiding. Then I very much support that.

1034
01:35:48,290 --> 01:36:03,310
I too feel the urgency for us to put our heads down, put our heads together, and find a way to move forward with affordable housing funds, because we don't have any.

1035
01:36:04,030 --> 01:36:09,230
This takes care of, or we have expanded what was on the last bond.

1036
01:36:09,870 --> 01:36:14,330
And it is very prudent of our staff to put some aside for next year.

1037
01:36:14,650 --> 01:36:15,950
Should we not come up with something?

1038
01:36:15,950 --> 01:36:17,350
Thank you.

1039
01:36:21,340 --> 01:36:22,440
Anybody else?

1040
01:36:23,400 --> 01:36:23,480
Okay.

1041
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:28,020
So she's just quickly wrap up.

1042
01:36:28,240 --> 01:36:32,680
I think first of all, I know this one issue is very difficult.

1043
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:35,740
And of course, we do not want to.

1044
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:43,780
We want to make sure that we are trying to find solutions for this community member who sounds like is in a pretty untenable situation.

1045
01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:49,040
So I think you're just hearing interest in finding ways that the town can partner and continue to move the conversation.

1046
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:54,740
and along and that we trust our staff to figure out good solutions, and we don't want to

1047
01:36:55,360 --> 01:36:59,800
make decisions from the diet that may not be super pertinent at the moment, but there's also

1048
01:36:59,800 --> 01:37:05,580
an interest in finding solutions. I also do just want to say how exciting this is, and we just

1049
01:37:05,580 --> 01:37:12,580
appreciate this amazing work. We got to celebrate last week that we got units on Legion Road,

1050
01:37:12,660 --> 01:37:19,020
and now we get to celebrate this. So thank you for continuing to do amazing work continuing to

1051
01:37:19,020 --> 01:37:23,820
bring us things that we get to celebrate and we're just really proud of all the work you're

1052
01:37:23,820 --> 01:37:33,780
doing. So 100 million thank you's from Council. And with that, I before we vote, I do need

1053
01:37:33,780 --> 01:37:40,040
a motion to reduce Council member, Miller Fuchsie. Man, one day it's just going to roll off

1054
01:37:40,040 --> 01:37:46,300
the tongue. It's going to happen. Council member Miller Fuchsie. So I moved by Council member

1055
01:37:46,300 --> 01:37:50,400
another seconded by Councilmember Ryan, all those in favor, please say aye.

1056
01:37:50,520 --> 01:38:00,540
Aye. Any opposed? Please say nay. Motion passes 80. And now I will entertain a motion for resolution three.

1057
01:38:00,740 --> 01:38:01,840
So moved.

1058
01:38:02,600 --> 01:38:07,600
Move by Councilmember Berry, seconded by Councilmember Ryan, all those in favor, please.

1059
01:38:07,940 --> 01:38:08,960
Oh, sorry.

1060
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:17,860
segment, Ryan. Sorry, everyone gets really touchy about the motion, a seconded by Council

1061
01:38:17,860 --> 01:38:27,040
Member Stegman. All those in favor, please say aye. Any opposed? Please say nay. Motion passes

1062
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:29,060
eight zero. Well done.

1063
01:38:35,870 --> 01:38:40,750
Oh, man, seven zero. Sorry. We lost another one's not here and then

1064
01:38:40,750 --> 01:38:50,590
is refused. Sorry for the record 70. Okay. On to item number six, we're writing our rules.

1065
01:38:51,030 --> 01:38:56,850
Alumo update, we have Katherine Shore and Taz Logo here to lead us through. Welcome.

1066
01:39:20,270 --> 01:39:21,490
Which I'm loving of course.

1067
01:39:29,640 --> 01:39:33,660
Good evening. Madam Mayor, members of the council, I'm Taz Logo with

1068
01:39:33,660 --> 01:39:36,320
playing department, joined by my colleague, Catherine Shaw,

1069
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:38,400
to discuss with you this evening,

1070
01:39:38,920 --> 01:39:41,040
rewriting our rules, Olimmo update.

1071
01:39:44,470 --> 01:39:45,790
And Jennifer this evening,

1072
01:39:46,410 --> 01:39:48,650
given that this is kind of our first regular meeting

1073
01:39:48,650 --> 01:39:49,550
on this topic,

1074
01:39:50,470 --> 01:39:52,610
wanna give an opportunity for the public

1075
01:39:52,610 --> 01:39:54,470
to hear a quick recap on some of the discussions

1076
01:39:54,470 --> 01:39:56,890
that have been had over the last several months.

1077
01:39:57,650 --> 01:39:59,970
Catherine is then gonna lead us in a discussion.

1078
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:08,060
And some of the engagement work that we've been undertaking over the last four months, also lead a discussion

1079
01:40:08,060 --> 01:40:13,920
on a racial equity analysis that she and our colleague Chernika Harrell have worked really

1080
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:18,820
diligently on over the last several months. And then I'm going to round things out with a discussion

1081
01:40:18,820 --> 01:40:24,400
about some kind of late-breaking analysis that we've received from our consultant team around affordable

1082
01:40:24,400 --> 01:40:28,520
housing and some of the economics behind our decision making going forward.

1083
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:42,780
So, to kind of quickly recap some of the discussions that we've been having as of this evening council has met six times in the last seven months to discuss the Luma rewrite.

1084
01:40:43,540 --> 01:40:55,600
Each of these meetings has been an opportunity for for you all and for members of the public to learn about and to comment on kind of higher level policy considerations underlying this work.

1085
01:40:55,600 --> 01:41:01,880
At no point during these meetings, if we ask for formal decisions, instead we're asking for

1086
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:06,980
kind of straw polls, right, asking for guidance for feedback so that we can make sure that

1087
01:41:06,980 --> 01:41:15,860
we are moving in a direction that is understood and generally in keeping with council's interests

1088
01:41:15,860 --> 01:41:22,160
on each of these topics. We have talked about a wide range of topics that I will not go into

1089
01:41:22,160 --> 01:41:29,000
detail with you all this evening, this is really for the, you know, for the interest of folks

1090
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:34,500
that have been kind enough to stick around and for those watching at home. I will touch on,

1091
01:41:34,500 --> 01:41:42,140
you know, a couple of, I think, key issues that have been, you know, kind of through lions throughout

1092
01:41:42,140 --> 01:41:48,300
a lot of these discussions, right? We've heard from you all about an interest in moving the

1093
01:41:48,300 --> 01:41:54,640
on by-right development, so long as we're able to continue to meet the town's interests, right?

1094
01:41:54,980 --> 01:42:03,440
And that's work that we are continuing to explore, continuing to try to find ways to meet those interests as we draft the new Luma.

1095
01:42:04,440 --> 01:42:13,960
Likewise, we've heard from you all, from community members, about the need for a stronger commercial base to support the community's interests.

1096
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:18,680
One of the ways that we can do that is through developing more mixed use zoning districts.

1097
01:42:19,580 --> 01:42:26,020
Again, we're going to be continuing that work, crafting the types of zoning districts that meet those interests.

1098
01:42:27,040 --> 01:42:35,900
We've heard some strong interest in continuing with the momentum that you all established last year around missing middle housing.

1099
01:42:36,860 --> 01:42:42,580
together with our consultant team staff or continuing to find ways to, to, to, again, move the

1100
01:42:42,580 --> 01:42:48,000
needle on missing middle housing, find more ways to make more types of housing accessible

1101
01:42:48,000 --> 01:42:54,480
and possible to build in Chapel Hill. We've also, again, heard a lot about interest surrounding

1102
01:42:54,480 --> 01:42:58,860
environmental protection. And those are going to be through lines through a lot of the work

1103
01:42:58,860 --> 01:43:03,940
that we are undertaking over the next several months as we continue to draft the new Lumo

1104
01:43:03,940 --> 01:43:07,300
and we'll find it with the help of community partners.

1105
01:43:09,340 --> 01:43:13,020
I wanted to touch quickly on something that we're not talking about this evening,

1106
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:18,860
but that we will come back to you all with once we have kind of tangible materials to share.

1107
01:43:19,300 --> 01:43:21,020
And that's design standards, right?

1108
01:43:21,100 --> 01:43:25,000
Design and dimensional standards that, again, meet the town's interest

1109
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:31,140
in a complete community that really prioritizes excellence in the public realm.

1110
01:43:31,140 --> 01:43:37,500
Well, we're anticipating is that as we continue to work through some draft design standards with our consultant team,

1111
01:43:37,940 --> 01:43:40,960
in coordination with other kind of public stakeholders,

1112
01:43:42,320 --> 01:43:46,360
we'll be ready to come back to you all really first thing in the fall with some draft standards,

1113
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:49,880
so we can have a discussion around concrete material,

1114
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:54,140
around concrete standards, right?

1115
01:43:54,380 --> 01:43:58,440
That we can talk about so that it's more than just an abstract discussion

1116
01:43:58,440 --> 01:44:01,140
and so we can really dig into that conversation.

1117
01:44:03,100 --> 01:44:05,720
So that's, again, we've been hard at work,

1118
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:08,640
kind of taking into account the various topics

1119
01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:11,460
that have been discussed over the last seven months.

1120
01:44:12,440 --> 01:44:14,960
We are nowhere near the end of these discussions,

1121
01:44:15,400 --> 01:44:18,060
and so we'll be continuing to come back to you

1122
01:44:18,060 --> 01:44:22,320
with we hope are right discussions as we move forward.

1123
01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:25,320
With that, I'm gonna hand things over to Katherine

1124
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:28,660
to lead us through the next couple of segments of the presentation.

1125
01:44:32,780 --> 01:44:33,440
Hey everyone,

1126
01:44:36,460 --> 01:44:42,080
so I'm going to walk us through an update on our engagement efforts.

1127
01:44:42,720 --> 01:44:52,020
It's been a while since I've been in front of you, and I'm really excited to share that we are informing and consulting a lot of different stakeholders using a lot of different tools.

1128
01:44:52,460 --> 01:44:57,100
And since I was last in front of you in January, we have hosted 19 different engagements.

1129
01:44:58,100 --> 01:44:59,960
That includes two learning sessions.

1130
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:07,200
With our planning ambassadors and we wrapped up our first cohort of that program, we've hosted six stakeholder meetings

1131
01:45:07,200 --> 01:45:14,740
through targeted outreach to different groups. We've hosted four public information meetings, both in person and virtual.

1132
01:45:15,660 --> 01:45:22,200
And we've hosted seven pop-up events to reach people in public housing communities, the farmers market and different community spaces.

1133
01:45:23,500 --> 01:45:25,780
So you might be wondering, great, what's next?

1134
01:45:26,800 --> 01:45:31,900
We're excited to keep meeting people and telling them about this important work to update our

1135
01:45:31,900 --> 01:45:36,300
land use rules. So we have six public information meetings coming up. There's going to be

1136
01:45:36,300 --> 01:45:42,060
three next week and three in May. We're continuing to schedule pop up and stay quarter meetings

1137
01:45:42,060 --> 01:45:46,920
throughout the month of May. We are going to take a break of our engagement over the summer

1138
01:45:46,920 --> 01:45:52,200
to focus on refining our draft ordinance with the consultant team and then we'll really reinvigorate

1139
01:45:52,200 --> 01:45:54,680
and boost our community engagement in the fall.

1140
01:45:56,770 --> 01:45:58,150
Any questions about the engagement?

1141
01:45:58,630 --> 01:46:02,390
I'm happy to take or I can move next to our equity analysis.

1142
01:46:06,850 --> 01:46:08,310
So now I'm going to share with you the work

1143
01:46:08,310 --> 01:46:11,130
that staff has done many of us are here tonight

1144
01:46:11,130 --> 01:46:14,110
to analyze our land use rules through an equity lens.

1145
01:46:15,010 --> 01:46:16,470
So why even look at racial equity?

1146
01:46:17,390 --> 01:46:20,410
We have our DEI office that has provided a really helpful

1147
01:46:20,410 --> 01:46:23,630
definition that racial equity is when race can no longer

1148
01:46:23,630 --> 01:46:25,450
be used to predict life outcomes

1149
01:46:25,450 --> 01:46:27,870
and that outcomes for all groups are improved.

1150
01:46:28,810 --> 01:46:30,890
So we know that zoning has contributed

1151
01:46:30,890 --> 01:46:34,070
to the systemic nature of economic and racial segregation.

1152
01:46:35,810 --> 01:46:38,330
And one of the reasons that we need to modernize our limo

1153
01:46:38,330 --> 01:46:41,510
is to address the inequitable outcomes that are institutionalized,

1154
01:46:42,990 --> 01:46:43,590
institutionalized,

1155
01:46:43,790 --> 01:46:44,890
thorrelangious rules,

1156
01:46:45,410 --> 01:46:47,450
our land use plans, and our land use decisions.

1157
01:46:50,030 --> 01:46:53,130
The racial equity analysis that's in your packet has three parts

1158
01:46:53,130 --> 01:46:54,970
that's on page 57 of your packet.

1159
01:46:56,370 --> 01:47:01,890
We take a moment to acknowledge the indigenous stewards of this land, and we understand that any decision

1160
01:47:01,890 --> 01:47:08,190
land use rule implicates them. Then we assess the racial impacts of our current land use rules.

1161
01:47:08,670 --> 01:47:10,550
And we look at some of the causes of those.

1162
01:47:11,250 --> 01:47:16,570
And then last week, we compare our current land use rules to some national best practices through an equity lens.

1163
01:47:18,620 --> 01:47:27,020
So like I said, there's growing evidence to suggest that exclusionary zoning policies and rules

1164
01:47:27,020 --> 01:47:32,900
limit racial and economic diversity and this, just in itself, MPs are goal of becoming a

1165
01:47:32,900 --> 01:47:38,320
complete community. So I want to start with this chart that shows that as 2022 estimate

1166
01:47:38,320 --> 01:47:43,260
of population by race for Chapel Hill and for the state. And we put them side by side because

1167
01:47:43,260 --> 01:47:48,440
we wanted to highlight that black people are underrepresented in Chapel Hill. You can see that

1168
01:47:48,440 --> 01:47:53,320
the percent of the population of black residents is half less than half that of the state.

1169
01:47:53,800 --> 01:47:57,280
And there are a lot of things that contribute to this outcome and I'll go over that in the presentation.

1170
01:47:57,980 --> 01:47:59,980
And our land use rules are one of them.

1171
01:48:00,380 --> 01:48:08,220
I want to focus on how the impact of this disparity relates to our land use rules and how that has outcomes at housing, education, and economic opportunity.

1172
01:48:10,400 --> 01:48:16,420
So our current land use rules contribute to higher housing costs by limiting in-field development and restricting housing types.

1173
01:48:16,420 --> 01:48:20,520
And in Chapel Hill 58% of renters are cost burdened.

1174
01:48:20,520 --> 01:48:22,000
This is recent data.

1175
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:25,400
And you heard in the public comment earlier tonight,

1176
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:28,300
this is a very real data.

1177
01:48:29,540 --> 01:48:32,660
The Chapel Hill residents that are most likely to be renters

1178
01:48:32,660 --> 01:48:34,600
are Black Hispanic or mixed race.

1179
01:48:35,860 --> 01:48:39,040
Another impact of our land use rules is in education outcomes.

1180
01:48:39,620 --> 01:48:42,520
There's growing evidence that points to restrictive land use rules

1181
01:48:42,520 --> 01:48:46,140
as a driver of despair, education outcomes, and options.

1182
01:48:46,860 --> 01:48:50,880
So for example, in our school system in the 2020 school year,

1183
01:48:52,120 --> 01:48:54,160
in this school year end, in the previous school years,

1184
01:48:54,420 --> 01:48:56,360
there's a consistent trend that the great level

1185
01:48:56,360 --> 01:48:58,880
proficiency among black and Hispanic students

1186
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:02,240
is significantly lower than among white and Asian students.

1187
01:49:04,750 --> 01:49:06,890
So we know that black residents in our community

1188
01:49:06,890 --> 01:49:08,730
are much less likely to be homeowners,

1189
01:49:09,070 --> 01:49:11,790
and therefore less likely to build wealth through homeownership,

1190
01:49:11,790 --> 01:49:17,150
an access to capital, combined with educational attainment, influences economic opportunity.

1191
01:49:18,570 --> 01:49:23,250
Self-employment is also an indicator of economic opportunity, and self-employment in

1192
01:49:23,250 --> 01:49:28,150
Chapel Hill is highest among white people and has been a people and lowest among black

1193
01:49:28,150 --> 01:49:28,550
people.

1194
01:49:31,630 --> 01:49:41,430
So I want to focus on the causes of these inequitable outcomes and really hone in on the systemic

1195
01:49:41,430 --> 01:49:47,150
oppression of marginalized groups that leads to inequitable outcomes here and also across

1196
01:49:47,150 --> 01:49:53,230
our country and this cannot be overstated. So that looks like current and past laws and policies,

1197
01:49:53,550 --> 01:49:58,650
like sundown laws, restrictive covenants, explicit and implicit and implicit segregation based

1198
01:49:58,650 --> 01:49:59,770
on class and race.

1199
01:50:00,430 --> 01:50:08,930
And another cause is the disparate access to resources, things like access to housing and jobs and transportation and education that varies based on race.

1200
01:50:09,790 --> 01:50:21,010
And finally, the way that our land is regulated and how its valued leads to an equitable outcomes, things like our zoning, real estate markets, private and public agreements and how land is used.

1201
01:50:22,420 --> 01:50:34,200
So that's set the stage for some of the racial impacts of our land use rules, and I'm going to go into some of the staff's analysis of our current land use rules, and I'm going to take a sip of water before I do that.

1202
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:50,400
So you may be familiar with the American Planning Association or the APA, they prepared and ratified the equity and zoning policy guide, which was released recently in 2022.

1203
01:50:50,400 --> 01:50:56,300
to. So even though this is relatively new guidance, these are not new ideas for advancing equity and zoning.

1204
01:50:58,440 --> 01:51:02,980
I think I'm a state of the number in your packet. The table is on page 53 of your packet.

1205
01:51:03,380 --> 01:51:08,960
And I invite your feedback and questions on it. We assessed our ordinance against 35 recommended

1206
01:51:08,960 --> 01:51:11,240
policies for equity and land use rules.

1207
01:51:13,820 --> 01:51:17,340
This is like related to allowing more mix of uses,

1208
01:51:17,340 --> 01:51:22,900
allowing more housing options and allowing more administrative approvals and what we found is that the

1209
01:51:22,900 --> 01:51:28,120
areas where we are not aligned with best practice are many of the elements of the Luma that we

1210
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:33,660
already want to update or have updated. The town is already advanced some of these recommendations

1211
01:51:33,660 --> 01:51:39,500
like with the housing choices tax amendments last year and in other instances we've asked you to

1212
01:51:39,500 --> 01:51:43,040
provide policy-level guidance on the topics that TAS highlighted earlier.

1213
01:51:45,690 --> 01:51:47,270
So many of the topics

1214
01:51:47,270 --> 01:51:51,950
that we're bringing to you are based on national best practice for more modern and more equitable

1215
01:51:51,950 --> 01:51:57,630
land use rules. This update is an important step in the right direction and we shouldn't set

1216
01:51:57,630 --> 01:52:03,270
an expectation that all issues will be addressed in one update. It has taken hundreds of years to

1217
01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:08,930
create these inequities and they won't be resolved in one year or one limo update. However,

1218
01:52:09,930 --> 01:52:15,710
that shouldn't stop us or stop you from confidently pursuing some changes that may have more

1219
01:52:15,710 --> 01:52:19,190
but will outcomes and may also be uncomfortable to adjust to.

1220
01:52:19,790 --> 01:52:22,750
And when we consider the options for how to change our land use rules,

1221
01:52:23,090 --> 01:52:24,650
we have to remember that they're all connected,

1222
01:52:25,210 --> 01:52:27,910
and that the options for updating these rules should be looked

1223
01:52:27,910 --> 01:52:28,510
at together.

1224
01:52:29,310 --> 01:52:32,050
And so this assessment that we've done will be refined,

1225
01:52:32,050 --> 01:52:34,570
and we'll consider some recommended policies

1226
01:52:34,570 --> 01:52:39,550
around zoning procedures and zoning maps as the project progresses.

1227
01:52:40,530 --> 01:52:43,470
So at this point, I'll invite questions and feedback,

1228
01:52:43,470 --> 01:52:48,890
And then I will, after we wrap that up, I'll switch it to the affordable housing section of the presentation.

1229
01:52:50,250 --> 01:52:51,050
Councilmember Ryan.

1230
01:52:51,890 --> 01:52:55,410
Yeah, thank you for that. I thought that the equity assessment you did was great.

1231
01:52:55,670 --> 01:52:57,850
It was tons of information in there and it was wonderful.

1232
01:52:58,730 --> 01:53:02,950
And I just, you probably touched a little bit on this at the end of what you were saying,

1233
01:53:03,790 --> 01:53:07,690
but what I'm looking for is the so what? Like you did a good analysis of if we do this,

1234
01:53:07,830 --> 01:53:11,370
we don't do that. These are the implications. We can't do that. We can't.

1235
01:53:11,370 --> 01:53:16,710
But are you going to come back to us with a list of these are the, these are the recommended actions?

1236
01:53:17,570 --> 01:53:27,050
Great question. So when we have a draft ordinance, we're going to come back to you and say here are the things that we're recommending and how they're aligned with best practice or not.

1237
01:53:27,430 --> 01:53:34,150
Okay, so you're talking about coming back in the fall, not for us to see it before you start writing. Would it be possible to get it earlier than that?

1238
01:53:34,570 --> 01:53:41,730
I think that it would be, for us to be able to make an assessment of the draft material

1239
01:53:41,730 --> 01:53:46,290
against some of these recommended policies, we as staff really need to be able to make

1240
01:53:46,290 --> 01:53:46,910
that assessment.

1241
01:53:48,250 --> 01:53:51,550
So I'm imagining that that would come before you and the fall.

1242
01:53:51,910 --> 01:53:52,110
Oh, okay.

1243
01:53:52,210 --> 01:53:55,710
Because I guess the way I would approach the logic is I figured out what I want to change

1244
01:53:55,710 --> 01:53:59,290
and then I would draft that, but I guess you're doing it the other way.

1245
01:53:59,290 --> 01:54:04,950
Well, what I might recommend is looking at staff's assessment of the current limo.

1246
01:54:05,830 --> 01:54:11,830
If you see some misalignment in ours, between what our current limo does and what national

1247
01:54:11,830 --> 01:54:14,390
best practices, please highlight that to us.

1248
01:54:14,710 --> 01:54:18,870
I think you did a good job of doing that and I think your table was very clear about where

1249
01:54:18,870 --> 01:54:20,090
you see the issues are.

1250
01:54:20,090 --> 01:54:24,070
I'm just trying to figure out what the solutions are that you're proposing so that we can

1251
01:54:24,070 --> 01:54:25,810
look at those before we.

1252
01:54:25,810 --> 01:54:30,890
It's going to be very hard once you guys have a lot of big draft ordinance right this thing is going to be a monster

1253
01:54:30,890 --> 01:54:38,730
It's going to be very hard for us to tackle individual topics like this. I'm just trying to figure out a good way for us to be able to weigh in

1254
01:54:38,730 --> 01:54:43,310
I mean, I think I think council will be supportive of what you're what you're looking at

1255
01:54:43,310 --> 01:54:49,250
I just want to make sure that we have a chance to weigh in on it before we get this very, very big baked document

1256
01:54:49,250 --> 01:54:54,310
And thank you for that. I think part of what she's trying to describe is that

1257
01:54:54,310 --> 01:54:58,470
because we've done this assessment and you see how we've already marked through the old

1258
01:54:58,470 --> 01:54:59,710
Lomo and the current Lomo.

1259
01:55:00,000 --> 01:55:08,100
To figure out where the inconsistencies are, that is really what we would. If you want to give feedback to give guidance, that is really where that needs to come.

1260
01:55:08,440 --> 01:55:17,000
Because based on the assessment we've already done, we will be making changes to the limo and recommending changes there. So what Catherine is saying is correct.

1261
01:55:17,260 --> 01:55:29,080
And it wouldn't be until the fall when the draft is complete that we can come to you, but we wouldn't just drop a draft and drop a report and tell you that we've been able to tag that and let you know how we address the things that were already identified.

1262
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:34,580
is that helpful? It is. I think it's just that again, there were some places where, you

1263
01:55:34,580 --> 01:55:38,240
know, you would say, well, there are legal obstacles here or we can do this or we might

1264
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:42,720
do that or it was more you were just laying out the case. So I wasn't clear on what direction

1265
01:55:42,720 --> 01:55:47,600
you guys were going to recommend. And that's I think important for me and my other council members

1266
01:55:47,600 --> 01:55:52,200
to understand this we move forward. And I think as we prepare materials for you, we can try

1267
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:57,540
to be mindful of that to provide those explanations and lay out what was done and how we came

1268
01:55:57,540 --> 01:56:00,680
to the decision that we made that we're proposing for the draft.

1269
01:56:01,020 --> 01:56:01,700
Thank you.

1270
01:56:02,460 --> 01:56:05,620
Yes, just to make sure that I understand,

1271
01:56:05,840 --> 01:56:08,380
because I agree with the interest, I think,

1272
01:56:08,500 --> 01:56:10,340
which is that as we're going, right?

1273
01:56:10,340 --> 01:56:12,220
We want to understand, and if there are things

1274
01:56:12,220 --> 01:56:16,480
that we're talking about in the lead-up to the summer,

1275
01:56:16,680 --> 01:56:18,920
which is when a lot of traffic happens, right?

1276
01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:21,240
We want to understand where things are

1277
01:56:21,240 --> 01:56:24,220
in conflict potentially that we might have an interest in, right?

1278
01:56:24,220 --> 01:56:29,140
or we want to be getting that information along the way so that we don't get to the fall

1279
01:56:29,140 --> 01:56:34,240
and then things that we thought that we had agreed on, then are different, right?

1280
01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:35,960
And then it's even more confusing.

1281
01:56:36,460 --> 01:56:42,280
Or then it doesn't tell us where the changes are made, I guess.

1282
01:56:42,440 --> 01:56:44,860
But you're saying there's some that there is a process solution.

1283
01:56:44,940 --> 01:56:47,540
So tell me what it is.

1284
01:56:48,120 --> 01:56:50,040
Or maybe you're not, I don't know.

1285
01:56:53,840 --> 01:56:55,300
I'm not sure I understand your question.

1286
01:56:56,320 --> 01:56:57,580
We're doing great.

1287
01:56:58,060 --> 01:56:59,540
I think they're doing great.

1288
01:57:00,580 --> 01:57:06,400
I guess my question is how are we, if we're getting this equity assessment, which is super important.

1289
01:57:08,260 --> 01:57:14,820
How are we translating that into these conversations that we're having along the way?

1290
01:57:15,340 --> 01:57:23,400
And so like in an extreme example, which I don't think is going to happen, I think a lot of what we're doing in the direction we're moving is going to be

1291
01:57:24,640 --> 01:57:29,940
fixing a lot of the issues in the old Lumo anyway, right? I mean just by

1292
01:57:29,940 --> 01:57:36,000
streamlining and by allowing for infill etc and that we're doing you know a lot of

1293
01:57:36,000 --> 01:57:40,180
changes but I guess what I'm asking is like in the extreme example you could

1294
01:57:40,180 --> 01:57:47,300
imagine that we are we're giving guidance to you that we want low density

1295
01:57:47,300 --> 01:57:51,580
residential all across town like that's the extreme I'm not saying that I promise

1296
01:57:51,580 --> 01:57:58,100
please don't quote me on it. I just said it into a microphone, but what I'm saying is in the

1297
01:57:58,100 --> 01:58:04,580
extreme that we would be saying, we want this and then you're like, Coca-Cola, write it down,

1298
01:58:04,660 --> 01:58:11,120
and then in September, you're like, oops, guess what? That's like not good idea. That would actually be

1299
01:58:11,120 --> 01:58:16,960
in contradictory to your racial equity goal. And so what I'm wondering is how are you,

1300
01:58:16,960 --> 01:58:21,560
how are you forcing us to have the conversation along the way or informing us of how

1301
01:58:21,560 --> 01:58:23,420
this is integrating into our decisions,

1302
01:58:23,420 --> 01:58:26,100
so that we're not kind of having a decision

1303
01:58:26,100 --> 01:58:28,480
devoid of the racial equity layer,

1304
01:58:29,000 --> 01:58:30,600
or the racial equity lens.

1305
01:58:32,280 --> 01:58:35,280
So, well, I think we can do is,

1306
01:58:35,280 --> 01:58:37,680
as you all are giving us policy guidance,

1307
01:58:38,960 --> 01:58:42,320
as Tasmanian, we're processing a lot of the topics

1308
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:44,100
that you're sharing and a lot of the ideas

1309
01:58:44,600 --> 01:58:46,440
that staff is bringing to you

1310
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:49,200
and asking for direction on,

1311
01:58:49,360 --> 01:58:50,840
are based on best practice.

1312
01:58:50,840 --> 01:59:04,580
And so when we come back to you with some recommended directions, something that we could consider is laying out how it aligns with these equity policies.

1313
01:59:06,320 --> 01:59:14,340
You know, these are best practices. This is not like a scoring group break. I don't want it to be misinterpreted, but it is something that we should keep in mind.

1314
01:59:15,180 --> 01:59:20,720
as as you all are considering some of these policy directions that that we're asking for you.

1315
01:59:21,800 --> 01:59:28,480
So something we could we can continue to bring this up and our intention is to continue to bring this up.

1316
01:59:29,380 --> 01:59:34,080
As we're having these policy level discussions with you and when the draft ordinance is ready.

1317
01:59:34,780 --> 01:59:39,080
And also keep in mind this is something that we're looking to just apply to this ordinance.

1318
01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:42,660
It also is going to apply to the work at the planning department is doing as a whole

1319
01:59:42,660 --> 01:59:47,080
and we're working with Shinika Weeks on that and bringing her up. I'd like for her to comment

1320
01:59:47,080 --> 01:59:51,880
because she has some clarification on the equity lens and how it fits into what you're speaking about.

1321
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:53,420
We're doing she's here.

1322
01:59:56,900 --> 01:59:59,960
Welcome. Good evening, Mayor In-Count.

1323
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:29,440
So, as I work with the planning team, this is half of an equity lens, right? So, they've gotten as far as they can go without actually having a draft in front of them to speak to what the recommended changes are, what the mitigation strategies are, but they're giving you a really good outlay of what APA is proposing and where we are now. And so, as I understand it, as they continue to work through, those recommendations will become more clear in terms of what they recommend the council.

1324
02:00:30,000 --> 02:00:33,280
do. So that makes like it's half of it because all of it's not complete.

1325
02:00:33,460 --> 02:00:34,660
So it feels like half.

1326
02:00:34,780 --> 02:00:35,500
Yes, for sure.

1327
02:00:36,160 --> 02:00:37,320
But you want the other hand.

1328
02:00:37,320 --> 02:00:42,780
I just want to make sure that we're using our equity lens as we're doing the work.

1329
02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:47,440
And so I don't want us to give guidance that then doesn't make sense or we've missed something.

1330
02:00:47,680 --> 02:00:49,980
And again, I don't know what I don't know.

1331
02:00:50,060 --> 02:00:55,240
So I just want to make sure that the things that we've talked about along the way are rooted in

1332
02:00:55,240 --> 02:00:55,900
the equity lens.

1333
02:01:03,860 --> 02:01:11,400
I can't tell you how important I think it is that y'all have done this equity analysis.

1334
02:01:12,140 --> 02:01:20,440
I think it's really important for the public to understand that this is a foundational issue.

1335
02:01:20,440 --> 02:01:35,300
as we're doing this Lumo, I don't think your average comfortable right, white homeowner knows about red lining and all the other stuff that's happened in the past and I think it's really important that they do.

1336
02:01:36,040 --> 02:01:49,540
When housing, choice was being discussed, I was doing advocacy with a CERA club for it and more than once I had people say, why are you calling me a racist?

1337
02:01:50,280 --> 02:02:01,140
And I thought it was important for them to tell them that acknowledging the foundational

1338
02:02:01,880 --> 02:02:08,060
institutional racism that got us the privileges that we have, that got a lot of us

1339
02:02:08,060 --> 02:02:16,860
to where we are is an important thing to understand and whereas we might not have personally

1340
02:02:16,860 --> 02:02:23,720
It caused that it is something that is part of our society that we have an obligation to try

1341
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:29,920
to address, and so I think it's also, I just want to throw in here that the same kind

1342
02:02:29,920 --> 02:02:36,240
of practices got us into a lot of the environmental and vehicle miles traveled up place

1343
02:02:36,240 --> 02:02:42,940
we are now too, so I just wanted to say that thank you for doing it.

1344
02:02:42,940 --> 02:02:44,840
Any other questions?

1345
02:02:46,280 --> 02:02:47,640
It was

1346
02:02:49,660 --> 02:02:53,100
It was lovely and you're not the first person to get a head of

1347
02:02:53,100 --> 02:02:57,300
I'm gonna you did say you did say comments. I'll just wait

1348
02:02:57,300 --> 02:03:04,080
Oh, we haven't done public we haven't done public comment yet. So we are at questions

1349
02:03:04,840 --> 02:03:10,740
Which of course we always good we we managed to make some of our questions into comments anyway, so

1350
02:03:11,920 --> 02:03:14,260
Right any other questions

1351
02:03:16,110 --> 02:03:25,330
Okay, okay. I actually have a question from previous, but maybe we want to get through it and then I can ask question at the end from the first part from Tazza's part.

1352
02:03:25,510 --> 02:03:27,270
Maybe when Tazza's up here.

1353
02:03:27,410 --> 02:03:31,010
Right, fair. Let's do it. So I'll invite Taz back up here.

1354
02:03:32,990 --> 02:03:33,590
Hey, Taz.

1355
02:03:34,810 --> 02:03:36,010
It's the hot seat.

1356
02:03:36,910 --> 02:03:40,230
Catherine was like, when Taz gets back up here is now.

1357
02:03:41,110 --> 02:03:48,390
Hello, again, can I ask you a question about the slide where you talk about all the things that we've talked about so far?

1358
02:03:48,690 --> 02:03:49,810
With the check marks.

1359
02:03:50,290 --> 02:03:51,110
You did not check marks.

1360
02:03:51,210 --> 02:03:53,550
Would you like me to go back to that slide for?

1361
02:03:53,550 --> 02:03:53,830
Sure.

1362
02:03:53,830 --> 02:03:54,010
Sure.

1363
02:04:00,920 --> 02:04:04,180
So I think to Amy's question, like, tell me so what?

1364
02:04:04,180 --> 02:04:05,500
Like, what did you hear?

1365
02:04:05,880 --> 02:04:09,840
What does this mean for the work you're going to do over the summer?

1366
02:04:11,340 --> 02:04:13,340
And besides just the topics.

1367
02:04:14,160 --> 02:04:16,160
And maybe this is, again, where I'm kind of like,

1368
02:04:16,220 --> 02:04:19,020
okay, so what is the racial equity tool kit?

1369
02:04:19,160 --> 02:04:21,740
Meaning, when we combine it with the conversations we've had,

1370
02:04:22,020 --> 02:04:23,660
is there, you know, what did you hear

1371
02:04:23,660 --> 02:04:25,900
and are there things that we should be thinking

1372
02:04:25,900 --> 02:04:29,620
about differently given the racial equity work?

1373
02:04:30,300 --> 02:04:31,220
It's a tiny question.

1374
02:04:32,340 --> 02:04:34,040
Yeah, and I think that's why I kind of started

1375
02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:36,920
a little bit out of frame that piece of information,

1376
02:04:36,920 --> 02:04:38,920
because I know that's been an interest for this evening.

1377
02:04:39,760 --> 02:04:41,060
You know, for each one of these topics, right?

1378
02:04:41,060 --> 02:04:43,000
We could go into a pretty lengthy discussion

1379
02:04:43,000 --> 02:04:48,940
about what we've heard and how we plan on incorporating that into our work going forward.

1380
02:04:50,280 --> 02:04:56,180
If there are particular topics of interest that you want that kind of deeper dive on,

1381
02:04:56,480 --> 02:04:59,980
certainly happy to talk about that, right off the bat or when it comes to.

1382
02:05:00,000 --> 02:05:08,440
I think that's a topic that so, in some ways, perfectly encapsulates the work that Catherine

1383
02:05:09,000 --> 02:05:18,700
Shinika, Sharnika, the rest of our team have been doing around equity, right? One of the top line recommendations from the APA,

1384
02:05:19,040 --> 02:05:23,820
is to expand opportunities for buy-right development because of the equitable outcomes that that can bring about.

1385
02:05:24,980 --> 02:05:29,360
So, you know, we have, we have that in mind, that is something that when we come back to

1386
02:05:29,360 --> 02:05:34,200
you all next month, you know, Mayor Anderson, you mentioned, how are, how are we as staff

1387
02:05:34,200 --> 02:05:40,420
going to make sure that we are continuing to keep equity analysis top of mind and part of

1388
02:05:40,420 --> 02:05:40,940
the discussion?

1389
02:05:41,420 --> 02:05:45,280
Part of the answer is that we will make sure that it's always part of the discussion going

1390
02:05:45,280 --> 02:05:45,620
forward.

1391
02:05:46,020 --> 02:05:46,100
Right.

1392
02:05:46,760 --> 02:05:51,440
We're not going to have a discussion about by right development next month without talking

1393
02:05:51,440 --> 02:05:54,360
about the equitable considerations at play.

1394
02:05:55,900 --> 02:05:57,680
The other considerations at play are the things

1395
02:05:57,680 --> 02:06:00,960
that we've heard from you all in the library.

1396
02:06:01,120 --> 02:06:02,860
It's weird talking about it here.

1397
02:06:03,620 --> 02:06:05,960
But we've heard about this notion

1398
02:06:05,960 --> 02:06:11,760
that we, as a town, understand the need to get counsel

1399
02:06:11,760 --> 02:06:16,940
out of the weeds and into a policy-making role.

1400
02:06:16,940 --> 02:06:31,940
But we know that there are also real community interests that play that can be protected by a certain extent by having council more involved in some development review and development decisions.

1401
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:36,900
Right. So that's that's the sort of thing that we're rambling with that we're going to be trying to balance.

1402
02:06:36,900 --> 02:06:46,320
as we write new processes moving forward as we put the notions of improving our current processes

1403
02:06:46,320 --> 02:06:51,160
before we all. And as we write new standards, right, they're going to complement it.

1404
02:06:51,400 --> 02:06:59,020
Because it's not just process, it's also substantive rules as well. And so I think that that's an example,

1405
02:06:59,420 --> 02:07:06,220
right of just on the one topic of right development, how we plan on incorporating the things that we've heard from you all.

1406
02:07:07,160 --> 02:07:16,280
And factoring that into the work that we're undertaking, just from a nuts and bolts perspective, right?

1407
02:07:17,200 --> 02:07:19,940
We are we're still writing, right?

1408
02:07:20,040 --> 02:07:25,400
We're working through technical work around the draft aluminum over the summer.

1409
02:07:25,820 --> 02:07:33,060
We plan to refine that internally with staff, but also start reaching out to kind of experience,

1410
02:07:33,060 --> 02:07:38,440
folks with on-the-ground knowledge of how Luma works, how it's going to affect them, right?

1411
02:07:38,900 --> 02:07:44,140
That means reaching out to our affordable housing, development community, reaching out to our home

1412
02:07:44,140 --> 02:07:49,800
builders, understanding how the things that we're putting in front of them are going to be translated

1413
02:07:49,800 --> 02:07:57,500
into reality. And through all of those discussions will be sharing, we'll be heard from you all,

1414
02:07:58,260 --> 02:08:01,440
from our different advisory boards and bringing those to bear as well.

1415
02:08:06,400 --> 02:08:15,560
Well, I guess what I'll ask then is, I think it would be really helpful for us to understand

1416
02:08:15,560 --> 02:08:20,820
what you've heard from our conversations, because even for me as one of nine, sometimes

1417
02:08:22,540 --> 02:08:27,280
I'm focused on what other people are saying and then I write it down and then whatever.

1418
02:08:28,400 --> 02:08:32,900
So I guess what would be helpful is to understand what you've heard from us in a way where

1419
02:08:32,900 --> 02:08:38,180
kind of mirroring back to us what you've heard and then it will be really helpful to hear what

1420
02:08:38,180 --> 02:08:43,440
you're hearing from other groups too so that we can also understand if things are going in

1421
02:08:43,440 --> 02:08:48,440
a direction that we don't think we gave guidance for it's really clear to us why and you can tell

1422
02:08:48,440 --> 02:08:55,180
us like actually based on best practice or based on what we're hearing from the development community.

1423
02:08:55,760 --> 02:08:59,380
I think you all need to think about this differently and I think this council is really open to that

1424
02:08:59,380 --> 02:09:05,200
I think we really want to understand how the process is unfolding and how your processing

1425
02:09:05,200 --> 02:09:09,460
different piece of information and when we need to think differently too, I think that's

1426
02:09:09,460 --> 02:09:13,060
really helpful guidance for us instead of kind of getting into the end and being like, well,

1427
02:09:13,380 --> 02:09:21,240
got here, but I'm not sure how. So I want to be told when I am saying something that actually

1428
02:09:21,240 --> 02:09:26,500
is in conflict with some other interests. So that's, I guess, one of nine. I will say that

1429
02:09:26,500 --> 02:09:34,480
interest for me. Anyway. And to that point, I'll just say, you know, yes, we will, we will

1430
02:09:34,480 --> 02:09:39,580
absolutely do that. I can't promise it by like the next meeting agenda packet.

1431
02:09:39,900 --> 02:09:46,080
Cause drafts are new for that. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. But I think it makes all the sense in the world

1432
02:09:46,080 --> 02:09:52,200
before we kind of go into the summer for that material to be available to folks. But we'll also say,

1433
02:09:52,200 --> 02:09:58,200
of the tempo of our interactions with you all, is going to change right for the...

1434
02:10:00,860 --> 02:10:09,760
I mean, six meetings in seven months like strap in because like the rest of the year is going to get, it's going to get, it's about to get real.

1435
02:10:09,940 --> 02:10:15,780
Yeah, it's going to get, it's going to get, it's going to get, we're really going to get into kind of a busy season with this work.

1436
02:10:16,520 --> 02:10:20,700
So things will change, we'll continue to adapt and please keep sharing your interest with us.

1437
02:10:20,840 --> 02:10:26,940
Thank you. And obviously the town manager and I can work together if you need additional time before summer as well.

1438
02:10:26,940 --> 02:10:30,980
I'm not trying to make more meetings, but we're going to have to have some things that have

1439
02:10:30,980 --> 02:10:34,160
light agendas probably, so we can always have that conversation too.

1440
02:10:34,480 --> 02:10:34,780
Thank you.

1441
02:10:35,760 --> 02:10:37,000
And as you were.

1442
02:10:39,500 --> 02:10:45,060
Okay, so I'm going to, okay, TIP conversation around affordable housing, I just want to

1443
02:10:45,060 --> 02:10:50,340
make sure, you know, in light of the perspectives that were shared earlier this evening, it might

1444
02:10:50,340 --> 02:11:00,240
seem insensitive, disconveroous for me to be talking about developer, profit margins or financial

1445
02:11:00,240 --> 02:11:05,180
returns. I just want to be clear for you all and for members of the public that we're

1446
02:11:05,180 --> 02:11:09,680
having these discussions that we can understand how best to serve the interests that we're

1447
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:11,160
shared earlier this evening.

1448
02:11:13,420 --> 02:11:20,060
I wanted to touch on two topics that are going to be informing a lot

1449
02:11:20,060 --> 02:11:24,500
the work that we're doing over the next several months in some of the decisions it will ask

1450
02:11:24,500 --> 02:11:29,380
you all to make in the fall. And they they've fallen to two buckets, right? Housing incentives

1451
02:11:29,380 --> 02:11:32,980
and smaller scale housing development projects.

1452
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:40,060
To this first point, you know, we set out with

1453
02:11:40,060 --> 02:11:46,800
some really significant economic analysis early in this project with the question of can we replace

1454
02:11:46,800 --> 02:11:55,240
conditionals owning as a tool for achieving affordable housing commitments from for profit developers in Chapel Hill.

1455
02:11:57,140 --> 02:12:02,420
We have, we've looked under various financial rocks to find ways to make that happen,

1456
02:12:03,020 --> 02:12:10,560
but the analysis unfortunately suggests that that we can't, right? That we do not have a

1457
02:12:11,240 --> 02:12:18,320
The voluntary program that can create the sort of commitments that we're currently getting out of conditional zoning.

1458
02:12:21,160 --> 02:12:25,280
And so, you know, for better or worse, conditional zoning is not going anywhere.

1459
02:12:25,680 --> 02:12:31,940
We do obviously want to make sure that we're using it to best of its ability, not over using it,

1460
02:12:32,120 --> 02:12:37,420
and not letting it stand in the way of other types of meaningful housing, right?

1461
02:12:37,420 --> 02:12:40,860
which brings me to the next second point around smaller scale projects.

1462
02:12:41,580 --> 02:12:47,240
One of the things that we really want to understand is, are we asking too much,

1463
02:12:47,680 --> 02:12:53,100
and are we standing in our own way in terms of getting more diverse housing,

1464
02:12:53,440 --> 02:12:56,920
more housing, generally speaking in Chapel Hill?

1465
02:12:57,520 --> 02:13:02,720
And what the economic analysis that our consultant teams have undertaken would suggest

1466
02:13:02,720 --> 02:13:12,760
Is that there is a tipping point, right, a point at which a smaller scale project can't afford to provide affordable housing.

1467
02:13:13,440 --> 02:13:25,640
And so that's something that we need to kind of factor into our thinking going forward so that we're finding win-win situations and not backing ourselves into lose-lues situations.

1468
02:13:27,360 --> 02:13:32,320
So, talking first about housing incentives, just kind of to the level set, right?

1469
02:13:32,320 --> 02:13:38,440
When we're looking at the feasibility or the effectiveness of housing incentives,

1470
02:13:40,560 --> 02:13:40,700
the

1471
02:13:40,700 --> 02:13:55,620
thing that we have to keep in mind is that an incentive in order for it to be effective in a

1472
02:13:55,620 --> 02:14:02,420
for a project. There is a clear and convincing business case to provide affordable housing.

1473
02:14:02,880 --> 02:14:07,680
Right? We have to make a situation in which a developer would basically be leaving money on the

1474
02:14:07,680 --> 02:14:13,180
table if they didn't provide affordable housing. And so that's the lens at which we would

1475
02:14:13,180 --> 02:14:19,060
provide or conduct this analysis, our consultant team conducted this analysis, of understanding

1476
02:14:19,060 --> 02:14:25,260
what are the effects on project returns, what are the effects on the returns that are

1477
02:14:25,260 --> 02:14:31,180
are going to expect from a project if they provide affordable housing and if we as a town

1478
02:14:32,040 --> 02:14:36,000
try to bake some incentives into the code for them to do that.

1479
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:43,200
And so, one of the most commonly discussed incentives around affordable housing is a density bonus.

1480
02:14:43,680 --> 02:14:47,500
Right, density bonuses can look a lot of different ways. They can mean,

1481
02:14:49,200 --> 02:14:54,040
increase floor area ratio. They can mean that if you provide a certain amount of affordable housing,

1482
02:14:54,040 --> 02:14:59,980
you can build seven stories instead of five stories. They can look a lot of ways, but ultimately...

1483
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:10,440
Currently what they boil down to is they are schemes in which a developer is allowed to build more than they otherwise would be allowed to do if they provide a certain amount of affordable housing.

1484
02:15:11,720 --> 02:15:20,940
What the analysis from our consultant team suggests, right? This is all obviously an imperfect science, but we're doing the best we can with the information that we have.

1485
02:15:20,940 --> 02:15:27,620
What their analysis suggests is that we would really need kind of an impractically high

1486
02:15:27,620 --> 02:15:31,560
density bonus to meet the towns affordability goals.

1487
02:15:32,220 --> 02:15:39,780
We're talking about a 50% density bonus just for a developer to break even for them to provide affordable housing.

1488
02:15:40,520 --> 02:15:43,380
But again, we're not talking about getting developers to break even.

1489
02:15:43,400 --> 02:15:49,460
We're talking about creating such a clear and convincing business case that they can't refuse to provide affordable housing.

1490
02:15:49,460 --> 02:15:53,680
to do that. You need density bonuses that are even higher than 50%.

1491
02:15:54,340 --> 02:16:02,020
What that does is it creates a really strange dynamic given kind of the market runs in Chapel Hill,

1492
02:16:02,160 --> 02:16:06,940
the types of buildings that are typically built in Chapel Hill, in which each one of those density

1493
02:16:06,940 --> 02:16:13,780
bonuses to really take advantage of it. A developer would have to move from a lower cost type of

1494
02:16:13,780 --> 02:16:19,050
construction to a higher cost, right? From surface parking to structured parking or from

1495
02:16:19,940 --> 02:16:26,940
lumber, stick frame construction to steal and concrete construction. And they don't get premiums in

1496
02:16:26,940 --> 02:16:32,580
rent for doing that, right? And they can't charge meaningfully more to do that. And so what it would

1497
02:16:32,580 --> 02:16:38,520
would create, right, is kind of a lose-lose situation in which developers would be more likely to build

1498
02:16:38,520 --> 02:16:41,900
that lower densities and not provide affordable housing.

1499
02:16:43,060 --> 02:16:44,680
And so that's not something we want to hang our hat on,

1500
02:16:44,780 --> 02:16:46,080
because it means losing out on density

1501
02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:48,320
and losing out on affordable housing.

1502
02:16:49,220 --> 02:16:51,500
So density bonus is basically analysis

1503
02:16:51,500 --> 02:16:54,100
from our consultant team, it's kind of off the table

1504
02:16:54,560 --> 02:16:57,240
in terms of inducing market rate developers

1505
02:16:57,240 --> 02:16:59,060
to provide affordable housing.

1506
02:16:59,980 --> 02:17:04,840
The other type of code that we looked at

1507
02:17:04,840 --> 02:17:08,000
providing some relief from are CD buffers

1508
02:17:08,000 --> 02:17:13,700
and step-ax. I want to be clear here. We didn't look at these because we are

1509
02:17:15,120 --> 02:17:22,160
kind of full-bore head on removing 100 foot RCD buffers or anything of that sort. We wanted to do

1510
02:17:22,160 --> 02:17:29,200
was look at the standards that are the easiest to study. The easiest to understand the effects

1511
02:17:29,200 --> 02:17:34,620
on project returns because they offer the most insight into how code-based incentives can work.

1512
02:17:34,620 --> 02:17:37,800
And what we found is that even under ideal conditions,

1513
02:17:39,260 --> 02:17:48,320
these sorts of relief do not provide significant changes in developer returns.

1514
02:17:48,740 --> 02:17:53,380
A lot of instances, they can increase the housing yield on a project.

1515
02:17:53,440 --> 02:18:00,920
They can result in a dozen more units in a 200 unit development.

1516
02:18:00,920 --> 02:18:13,160
But they don't actually change the metrics that a four-profit developer is looking for when justifying a project to an investor, or at least if they do they only move the needle ever so slightly.

1517
02:18:14,880 --> 02:18:25,460
So based on that analysis, again, we are not confident that we can induce market rate developers to provide affordable housing using these sorts of incentives.

1518
02:18:26,780 --> 02:18:31,940
But, and there is kind of a little bit of light at the end of this tunnel right on incentives.

1519
02:18:33,560 --> 02:18:39,700
What our analysis does suggest is that any of these incentives, whether it's density bonuses,

1520
02:18:40,700 --> 02:18:46,240
relief from certain other dimensional standards, they might not produce enough value

1521
02:18:46,240 --> 02:18:51,160
to induce a market rate developer that isn't otherwise interested in providing affordable housing.

1522
02:18:51,160 --> 02:18:58,580
They might not provide enough incentive for that, but they do provide value and that value

1523
02:18:58,580 --> 02:19:03,780
can be meaningful to mission oriented developers, some of whom you heard from earlier

1524
02:19:03,780 --> 02:19:04,240
today.

1525
02:19:05,780 --> 02:19:10,680
And so if we're looking for ways to support mission oriented affordable housing developers,

1526
02:19:11,880 --> 02:19:19,400
we can build in the momentum that you all established with passing the residential community

1527
02:19:19,400 --> 02:19:25,440
priority process for affordable housing, we can build in that momentum, right?

1528
02:19:25,460 --> 02:19:30,520
It doesn't just have to be procedural support for affordable housing developers.

1529
02:19:31,620 --> 02:19:38,560
If there's interest, right, we can look into targeted code-based support for, again, mission

1530
02:19:38,560 --> 02:19:43,600
oriented affordable housing developers, perhaps looking at some of the same thresholds

1531
02:19:43,600 --> 02:19:48,740
that we did for the expedited review process in terms of how much affordable housing

1532
02:19:48,740 --> 02:19:54,660
developer would have to provide to qualify. Again those thresholds are high enough that

1533
02:19:54,660 --> 02:19:59,660
they're not really incentivizing somebody to do something that they wouldn't have done otherwise.

1534
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:10,740
But they can support people that are mission oriented to provide affordable housing. So there's interest from council in exploring that, that's something that we can work on over the next several months.

1535
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:17,660
I can't imagine you'll hear no, but council?

1536
02:20:19,380 --> 02:20:23,500
Oh, well. Just just go for it. Well.

1537
02:20:25,020 --> 02:20:28,340
We can do the old-fashioned thumbs-up thumbs down if you'd like to.

1538
02:20:28,340 --> 02:20:41,440
I mean, I don't think we're going to get public comment to the contrary, but I guess we should wait for public comment to be fair, but I don't think you're in less anybody has a huge concern that would be kind of wild not to do it.

1539
02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:47,300
I mean, I just want to really thank you for the analysis that you did on that. I thought it was super helpful.

1540
02:20:47,300 --> 02:20:49,960
and to have data like that, and especially on the American

1541
02:20:49,960 --> 02:20:51,940
of those breaking points are on projects,

1542
02:20:52,500 --> 02:20:55,680
and asking for this here just isn't ever going to be economically

1543
02:20:55,680 --> 02:20:57,000
feasible, it's super helpful.

1544
02:20:57,180 --> 02:20:58,960
So thank you so much for that.

1545
02:20:59,660 --> 02:21:00,180
Yeah, continue.

1546
02:21:00,700 --> 02:21:00,960
Yeah, thanks.

1547
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:03,740
And so to round things out, right,

1548
02:21:03,900 --> 02:21:08,180
the other question that we asked is, where is that breaking point?

1549
02:21:08,380 --> 02:21:11,200
Right, at what point are we getting in our own way?

1550
02:21:11,640 --> 02:21:14,760
When it comes to getting, not just affordable housing,

1551
02:21:14,920 --> 02:21:16,720
but just more housing in Chapel Hill.

1552
02:21:16,720 --> 02:21:19,820
some of which has the opportunity to be affordable.

1553
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:29,700
And so we, again, had our consultants ask this question of kind of how small is too small for a project to be able to bear the cost of affordable housing.

1554
02:21:30,620 --> 02:21:32,180
Again, it's an imperfect science.

1555
02:21:32,400 --> 02:21:36,880
It's highly dependent on market conditions and the information at hand.

1556
02:21:37,160 --> 02:21:42,160
But we found, as I'm talking about rental projects, 12 to 16 units looks like it's the breaking point.

1557
02:21:42,160 --> 02:21:46,660
And for four sale projects, 10 to 12 units, is the breaking point.

1558
02:21:47,760 --> 02:21:51,000
So what's this so what, right, when it comes to rental units,

1559
02:21:53,040 --> 02:21:56,140
and this is something we'll talk about next month,

1560
02:21:56,680 --> 02:22:01,420
really rethinking our conditional zoning, the scope of conditional zoning,

1561
02:22:01,920 --> 02:22:05,460
and what type of projects you need to go that route.

1562
02:22:06,740 --> 02:22:16,360
Currently, in most zoning districts, multifamily development with 11 units or more has to go through the conditional zoning process.

1563
02:22:17,400 --> 02:22:30,380
What this analysis would suggest is that given that we know that one of the strongest elements of our conditional zoning process, the biggest tool that it gives us is the ability to negotiate for affordable housing.

1564
02:22:31,220 --> 02:22:37,560
There may not actually be much of a benefit to have that threshold sit at 11 units, right,

1565
02:22:37,980 --> 02:22:44,320
because a project with more units actually may not be able to afford providing the thing

1566
02:22:45,180 --> 02:22:50,820
that is the biggest opportunity for us to ask for through conditional zoning.

1567
02:22:52,320 --> 02:22:58,540
And so it's an opportunity to rethink whether we can move the needle and how much housing

1568
02:22:58,540 --> 02:23:04,340
can be built through purely administrative approvals without actually leaving any affordable housing

1569
02:23:04,340 --> 02:23:10,460
on the table. We can do this without sacrificing more affordable housing commitments from

1570
02:23:10,460 --> 02:23:14,680
developers because this analysis suggests they wouldn't be able to provide it even if we

1571
02:23:14,680 --> 02:23:19,140
ask. And so what we might be doing is disincentivizing the types of projects that we actually

1572
02:23:19,140 --> 02:23:28,520
want to see. Similarly with for sale projects, this is a topic that was included in

1573
02:23:28,520 --> 02:23:31,660
the portable housing plan that you all adopted last year

1574
02:23:31,660 --> 02:23:36,120
to rethink, reconsider, improve, and modernize,

1575
02:23:36,640 --> 02:23:37,960
our inclusionary zoning ordinance.

1576
02:23:38,400 --> 02:23:42,340
This is analysis that can directly lead into that effort.

1577
02:23:43,140 --> 02:23:45,380
And so we'll be working with the CPCR

1578
02:23:45,380 --> 02:23:49,240
for the housing team to think about how this analysis

1579
02:23:49,240 --> 02:23:52,500
can help that effort when the time comes.

1580
02:23:54,440 --> 02:23:57,460
So with that, happy to follow your lead

1581
02:23:57,460 --> 02:23:59,960
on how questions and comments would work.

1582
02:24:00,140 --> 02:24:02,600
If I already, like the CMS, we'll try to get back to it.

1583
02:24:03,180 --> 02:24:04,600
I start Council Member Nullert,

1584
02:24:04,600 --> 02:24:06,200
I'm proud by Council Member Sigmund.

1585
02:24:06,940 --> 02:24:09,480
Could you go back to slide when you've finished hydrating?

1586
02:24:11,460 --> 02:24:12,880
So this is really interesting.

1587
02:24:13,080 --> 02:24:14,560
I really appreciate the way that you've done this.

1588
02:24:14,560 --> 02:24:17,480
My question is, if we end up with a rewrite that's

1589
02:24:17,480 --> 02:24:20,980
going to last us as a document for, let's say, 20, 25 years.

1590
02:24:21,960 --> 02:24:24,160
And these thresholds are about current market conditions.

1591
02:24:24,320 --> 02:24:27,020
Is there a way to write the Lumos so that this is flexible?

1592
02:24:27,020 --> 02:24:32,240
Or is it just a case that you would need to approach whatever council is sitting, you know,

1593
02:24:32,300 --> 02:24:37,180
18, 16 years from now and say, hey, we need to move these thresholds because we have

1594
02:24:37,180 --> 02:24:42,160
not market conditions have changed in such a way that either we can lower these thresholds and we could actually

1595
02:24:42,160 --> 02:24:46,140
be extracting units from small developments or things have gotten worse.

1596
02:24:46,360 --> 02:24:48,020
And it's actually going to be a 20 unit threshold.

1597
02:24:48,240 --> 02:24:49,760
Like, is there a way to build that flexibility in?

1598
02:24:49,760 --> 02:24:53,640
Or are you going to have to come back and ask for amendments if that proves most efficient?

1599
02:24:54,620 --> 02:24:59,980
I haven't seen an example of a code that, you know, has inflation in.

1600
02:25:01,540 --> 02:25:25,240
We can do what I will say is highly unlikely that these numbers on screen now are the thresholds that we're going to recommend. Even at the outset, we want to bake in a certain level of like a certain margin of error, understanding that this is an in exact set of numbers, right?

1601
02:25:25,240 --> 02:25:31,780
We want to bake in a margin of error at the outset, but also you will have the opportunity

1602
02:25:31,780 --> 02:25:40,280
to establish something that we have not had, which is a culture of continuously re-interrogating

1603
02:25:40,850 --> 02:25:51,540
our standards, our standards for conditional zoning, for when and where our portability

1604
02:25:51,540 --> 02:26:04,540
expectations kind of kick in, have not changed significantly, right? The five unit threshold, right, for some of our expectations around affordable housing, at least 20 years old.

1605
02:26:04,980 --> 02:26:13,560
And so this is an opportunity to kind of set a new baseline, a new expectation about how we're going to think about really any of the standards in Belumon.

1606
02:26:13,560 --> 02:26:21,620
And that applies to not just this, but we've really been talking about the importance of establishing a culture of continuous improvement.

1607
02:26:22,240 --> 02:26:24,560
And this is just going to be one example of that.

1608
02:26:25,460 --> 02:26:27,560
It's like living really a living document.

1609
02:26:28,340 --> 02:26:34,160
And once we unbreak it, and it's beautiful and new, then we can keep it beautiful and new and not let it break.

1610
02:26:34,460 --> 02:26:35,040
Yeah, absolutely.

1611
02:26:35,040 --> 02:26:40,260
I mean, there are some communities, I think Raleigh does annual kind of checkups with

1612
02:26:40,260 --> 02:26:48,000
their UDO, we can get into a similar rhythm that makes sense for this community, maybe not

1613
02:26:48,000 --> 02:26:48,320
annually.

1614
02:26:50,080 --> 02:26:55,000
But, you know, wait, wait more than annually, but annually, baby, I'm under the sex change

1615
02:26:55,000 --> 02:26:55,980
with a list of changes.

1616
02:26:56,140 --> 02:27:00,600
I was just going to say kind of add to Councillor Reynolds question that we should not be

1617
02:27:00,600 --> 02:27:03,600
looking at this document as something that will last 20 years.

1618
02:27:03,600 --> 02:27:08,360
All of these plans, these major plans should be rewritten within 10 years.

1619
02:27:08,760 --> 02:27:12,780
And we should be revisited within five years because we'll need three or four years to update them.

1620
02:27:13,200 --> 02:27:17,600
So we should get on that schedule and that's my goal as a department for us to get to a schedule

1621
02:27:17,600 --> 02:27:21,060
where we are constantly evaluating them.

1622
02:27:21,060 --> 02:27:25,980
And if we do find things and identify things in year one, year two, year eight,

1623
02:27:26,380 --> 02:27:29,720
we as a staff is our responsibility to bring those things to you for your consideration

1624
02:27:29,720 --> 02:27:32,020
to update if something needs to happen quicker.

1625
02:27:32,020 --> 02:27:35,020
So, five year budgeting strategy also.

1626
02:27:36,360 --> 02:27:36,380
Yeah.

1627
02:27:36,880 --> 02:27:37,760
Council Member Stegman.

1628
02:27:40,040 --> 02:27:51,420
My question is whether you thought about or whether we should think about the cost of the housing when we think about these.

1629
02:27:51,600 --> 02:27:55,500
What is feasible, I guess.

1630
02:27:55,500 --> 02:28:00,460
I know, through somewhat informally, we started doing that

1631
02:28:00,460 --> 02:28:05,380
on a case-by-case basis with townhomes that were a little

1632
02:28:05,380 --> 02:28:08,180
more affordable than some of the other housing we were seeing.

1633
02:28:08,340 --> 02:28:12,740
We're like, OK, well, basically the applicant made the argument

1634
02:28:12,740 --> 02:28:17,080
to keep the housing more kind of market rate affordable.

1635
02:28:18,340 --> 02:28:24,340
We can only do 10% affordable housing, or not the 15%.

1636
02:28:24,340 --> 02:28:30,080
So is that something we should be thinking about or factor into this or is it kind of agnostic

1637
02:28:30,080 --> 02:28:31,240
to housing cost?

1638
02:28:31,560 --> 02:28:36,460
Yeah, so I think for anything that's baked into Lumo, we wouldn't want to get into the realm

1639
02:28:37,460 --> 02:28:42,560
of looking through an applicant's perform up, figuring out what their budget looks like.

1640
02:28:43,180 --> 02:28:51,700
When it comes to how you all decide to move forward with negotiations around affordable housing

1641
02:28:51,700 --> 02:28:56,600
through conditional zoning, I think, like you said,

1642
02:28:56,700 --> 02:29:00,400
you've established a practice of thinking about the context

1643
02:29:00,400 --> 02:29:04,100
and I don't see any reason that that should stop by any means.

1644
02:29:04,800 --> 02:29:09,960
One of the things that has come out of this work with our consultant team,

1645
02:29:11,460 --> 02:29:16,400
I don't admittedly understand the Excel models that they have given us to work with.

1646
02:29:16,400 --> 02:29:23,700
but we have them, right? They're tools that we can we can start to use in various ways and maybe that can start to inform

1647
02:29:23,700 --> 02:29:30,480
some of our thinking going forward in less formal settings than the LUMO itself.

1648
02:29:31,460 --> 02:29:35,440
They really can't be taken into account and code.

1649
02:29:35,540 --> 02:29:41,400
Well, it's not a LUMO thing, right? But it's like a policy. It's a policy down. Yeah, okay. Thank you.

1650
02:29:42,020 --> 02:29:42,960
Other questions?

1651
02:29:43,520 --> 02:29:50,220
Okay. Let's hear from the public. Okay, first up is John Weiss, followed by Darren Campbell.

1652
02:30:02,120 --> 02:30:11,740
I'm not sure that the document that I sent is directly attributed to what has just told me.

1653
02:30:12,320 --> 02:30:18,840
The document we sent in was a comment on the typologies and is an urban design response.

1654
02:30:20,460 --> 02:30:27,820
And these issues of affordability and the cost of housing are really quite different.

1655
02:30:27,820 --> 02:30:33,440
And so, for example, I taught real estate development for about 15 years and I just took

1656
02:30:33,440 --> 02:30:38,620
three pages of notes listening to TAS because I had not heard that before.

1657
02:30:41,000 --> 02:30:43,900
So, John, are you here as the chair or are you here as an individual?

1658
02:30:43,980 --> 02:30:44,840
I'm here as a chair.

1659
02:30:45,000 --> 02:30:47,040
Okay, well then we can turn the timer off.

1660
02:30:49,160 --> 02:30:57,800
So, I mean, we prepare a document that's in your packet and it has 10 points about the typology

1661
02:30:57,800 --> 02:31:00,440
these that were paired by Skidmart Owens and Merrill.

1662
02:31:02,160 --> 02:31:04,660
And in our analysis of those typologies,

1663
02:31:05,480 --> 02:31:08,100
we felt that we're 10 issues that we're extremely important.

1664
02:31:09,880 --> 02:31:14,100
And I don't know that any of the discussions so far

1665
02:31:14,100 --> 02:31:15,300
is related to those.

1666
02:31:15,300 --> 02:31:17,380
So I don't know that I really think it's appropriate.

1667
02:31:18,020 --> 02:31:21,760
I'll come back another time and talk about them.

1668
02:31:22,040 --> 02:31:25,280
But we do think they are important because it

1669
02:31:25,280 --> 02:31:33,140
talks about the five to seven-story residential structure that we all love,

1670
02:31:35,840 --> 02:31:39,060
and what the implications

1671
02:31:39,060 --> 02:31:45,340
are of that, who owns those buildings as opposed to the other buildings in town? So we've

1672
02:31:45,340 --> 02:31:49,720
done a little analysis of that, so I'm happy to bring that back, but I think this is a different

1673
02:31:49,720 --> 02:31:52,340
time. Everybody agree? Unless you want to hear something.

1674
02:31:54,960 --> 02:31:58,040
Okay? So I'll come back and talk more

1675
02:31:58,040 --> 02:32:03,820
about the technologies and depending on what has wants us to do, we'd be more than happy

1676
02:32:03,820 --> 02:32:09,340
to get more engaged in these kinds of issues as we move forward. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for

1677
02:32:09,340 --> 02:32:13,620
the invitation. Okay, we've got Darren Campbell followed by John Mitchell.

1678
02:32:18,810 --> 02:32:21,470
It brought a carried a time, let's think I'm going to pass out.

1679
02:32:21,730 --> 02:32:22,370
Welcome back.

1680
02:32:22,830 --> 02:32:23,690
Welcome back.

1681
02:32:24,370 --> 02:32:24,870
Thank you.

1682
02:32:26,950 --> 02:32:35,130
I was part of the Planning Ambassadors program that they spoke up earlier, long before

1683
02:32:35,130 --> 02:32:40,510
all this, all these great data was brought up.

1684
02:32:40,930 --> 02:32:41,310
Thanks, Taz.

1685
02:32:43,150 --> 02:32:48,790
But one thing that I wanted to make sure to clear was that a lot of

1686
02:32:48,790 --> 02:33:15,730
And as we said, a lot of the land use ordinances and variants and a lot of the stuff we've had here in this child was written long for most of us were even born and were added to and at one point were equivalent to Jim Crow laws, a lot of the ordinances and it took a long time for us to get there.

1687
02:33:15,730 --> 02:33:24,250
It's going to take a lot of work and a lot of time for us to get out of that hole that, you know, we have the town have dug us up into.

1688
02:33:24,930 --> 02:33:31,010
This is a good start. This is a good start. And as far as affordable housing, we need more diverse.

1689
02:33:31,010 --> 02:33:36,890
We need more diverse housing in Chapel Hill. We need more diverse businesses in Chapel Hill.

1690
02:33:36,890 --> 02:33:46,010
We need to create, we need to invigorate a tax base so that it can, we sort of, we have

1691
02:33:46,010 --> 02:33:54,030
an easier to have funding, either to obtain funding for these projects, so that the bond

1692
02:33:54,030 --> 02:34:02,470
issue, so the bonds can be found, can be gone to either, this two-cent tax can be achieved

1693
02:34:02,470 --> 02:34:08,350
easier because there's more people working because they have someone to live, like I said earlier.

1694
02:34:09,150 --> 02:34:14,330
Because if you have a foundation at home and you're not worried about that, you can work.

1695
02:34:15,270 --> 02:34:21,550
And when you work, you create tax, you create tax will income and that tax will income helps with two

1696
02:34:21,550 --> 02:34:28,830
centax with Bala completes the circle. So I'm not going to disagree with anything they had to say.

1697
02:34:29,450 --> 02:34:33,390
And then in the matter of fact, I'm going to sit there, get tabs number number number and

1698
02:34:33,390 --> 02:34:36,230
let us ask if there's any way I can help them after this.

1699
02:34:36,490 --> 02:34:37,290
That's all I got.

1700
02:34:37,730 --> 02:34:37,750
Thanks.

1701
02:34:39,310 --> 02:34:40,270
Thank you.

1702
02:34:40,610 --> 02:34:40,810
Okay.

1703
02:34:40,810 --> 02:34:43,050
We've got John Mitchell followed by the Laura Spaley.

1704
02:34:48,080 --> 02:34:48,340
Hi.

1705
02:34:49,000 --> 02:34:55,020
Liz Lasas who's the chair of the Planning Commission wanted to provide some brief come up for

1706
02:34:55,020 --> 02:34:59,960
There are remarks as we're made way through the Lumo, she didn't just walk in the G.

1707
02:35:00,940 --> 02:35:13,060
And she had to step out, and I happen to be in the neighborhood. So she asked me to speak on her behalf. So these are remarks on behalf of Liz on behalf of the Planning Commission. So kind of thank you.

1708
02:35:13,060 --> 02:35:14,560
second degree of relief.

1709
02:35:15,920 --> 02:35:22,880
First of all, Liz wanted to thank the staff and the particular task and Catherine who

1710
02:35:22,880 --> 02:35:30,200
have been speaking at her meetings lately for their patients and thoroughness in describing

1711
02:35:30,200 --> 02:35:33,660
this mattering of topics that we've spoken about.

1712
02:35:33,880 --> 02:35:40,240
We've had some really constructive discussions, and that's great.

1713
02:35:40,280 --> 02:35:40,980
Let's keep it going.

1714
02:35:43,040 --> 02:36:03,580
Having said that, as I listened to the mayor and council number Ryan, discussed with Catherine and Taz here tonight, the question of, so what, you know, we have some directional consensus about a number of things that are really important.

1715
02:36:05,460 --> 02:36:14,440
How does that translate into a strategic decision, not drafting, but a strategic decision that the drafting will carry out?

1716
02:36:15,480 --> 02:36:21,440
And the Planting Commission has very little visibility into those strategic decisions at this point,

1717
02:36:21,460 --> 02:36:27,520
and maybe that's to be expected because it's still early, but it feels like it's getting less early.

1718
02:36:29,020 --> 02:36:35,760
And before the council breaks for the summer in a couple of months and the planning commission probably will do the same,

1719
02:36:37,500 --> 02:36:57,420
the planning commission would be in a better position to do its job as we see it, which is to provide council and advice to the council on how the high-level strategic decisions for the lumo fit into the complete community framework and fit into all the other things we're doing.

1720
02:36:59,060 --> 02:37:06,860
It's hard for us to do that without understanding the so-what early enough for us to sort

1721
02:37:06,860 --> 02:37:08,600
of advise on it before the summer.

1722
02:37:09,820 --> 02:37:16,320
So I just wanted to flag that and this may be totally understood by staff and there's a

1723
02:37:16,320 --> 02:37:24,860
plan to sort of shift that part of the discussion, but there's an appetite for it on our

1724
02:37:24,860 --> 02:37:27,500
site as it sounds like there may be on years.

1725
02:37:28,240 --> 02:37:29,360
So with that, I will sit down.

1726
02:37:29,520 --> 02:37:30,040
Thank you very much.

1727
02:37:30,860 --> 02:37:31,220
Thank you.

1728
02:37:31,340 --> 02:37:31,860
Oh, sure.

1729
02:37:32,120 --> 02:37:32,620
The question.

1730
02:37:33,420 --> 02:37:37,860
You said, as I listened to, and I just want to clarify that the comments,

1731
02:37:38,480 --> 02:37:42,100
the wishes that you just expressed for that of the commission,

1732
02:37:42,720 --> 02:37:45,440
and that of John Mitchell, who sits on the commission.

1733
02:37:48,220 --> 02:37:54,720
The remarks that, so let me clarify, so I was just noting that some of the

1734
02:37:54,720 --> 02:38:05,380
discussion that happened here tonight over a lack for the substance of what Liz was going to tell you. Okay. There's just a coincidence there. Okay. Okay. Thank you. So it is on behalf of the plan. Thank you.

1735
02:38:06,640 --> 02:38:09,760
Okay. To Lawrence Bailey and that's the last person I have signed up.

1736
02:38:11,060 --> 02:38:18,700
Good evening Madam Mayor council members. I'm to Lawrence Bailey. I will put on my hat as a community organizer for the neighborhood.

1737
02:38:19,320 --> 02:38:24,320
with empowerment, I wanted to do a couple of things about the rummo. First, I've been around

1738
02:38:24,320 --> 02:38:31,260
a long time and so I've seen this go on for a long time and want to appreciate the staff

1739
02:38:31,260 --> 02:38:36,040
for bringing rummo to the community. So there are community meetings that we have every

1740
02:38:36,040 --> 02:38:42,440
third Tuesday of the month and rummo was brought to us. I must admit it needs to be broken down

1741
02:38:42,440 --> 02:38:48,560
some more so that people can understand what's going on but the important point is they do

1742
02:38:48,560 --> 02:38:51,700
understand that LUMO affects our community.

1743
02:38:52,180 --> 02:38:53,880
So I wanted to thank the staff for that.

1744
02:38:54,260 --> 02:38:57,760
The other piece I wanted to mention was as the Darren

1745
02:38:57,760 --> 02:39:00,860
mentioned before me, just the institutional racism

1746
02:39:00,860 --> 02:39:05,240
that has been put that was already in the LUMO right now

1747
02:39:05,720 --> 02:39:07,540
as it exists now.

1748
02:39:07,820 --> 02:39:10,800
So I'm really interested in unpeeling some of that

1749
02:39:10,800 --> 02:39:14,320
and figuring out how again, it relates to small communities

1750
02:39:14,320 --> 02:39:16,900
like the Northside community and the Pino's community.

1751
02:39:16,900 --> 02:39:24,280
What I do know is that there are owners, home owners, in nor side, who want to know how

1752
02:39:24,280 --> 02:39:26,700
Lumo is going to help them.

1753
02:39:27,660 --> 02:39:32,100
And that is something I would like to ask the staff to make sure that I know Lumo is coming

1754
02:39:32,100 --> 02:39:38,360
back again for us, but please break it down just a little bit more so that they can understand

1755
02:39:39,040 --> 02:39:42,980
how their properties are going to be affected, how their community is going to be affected

1756
02:39:42,980 --> 02:39:49,280
as the Luma ordinances change, I know it's an affordable housing provider that's important

1757
02:39:49,280 --> 02:39:55,060
and it's important that a piece that they're just mentioned is important. The equity piece

1758
02:39:55,060 --> 02:39:59,980
is very important. This is our time to get it changed, to get it fixed and for the...

1759
02:40:00,000 --> 02:40:07,000
Community to walk away, at least the panels and most likely to walk away, understanding what the rewrite of the

1760
02:40:07,000 --> 02:40:23,320
Luma ordances mean to them. Thank you. Thank you. Is that it? That's it? That's it? Okay. Council, back to you. Council member,

1761
02:40:23,320 --> 02:40:25,540
or knowledge followed by Council Member Ryan?

1762
02:40:26,980 --> 02:40:32,260
I want to draw a through line between the habitat question earlier in the night, and

1763
02:40:32,260 --> 02:40:37,960
Dolores has come at just now about neighborhoods and what will help them, because the

1764
02:40:37,960 --> 02:40:42,200
thing that stood out to me during the habitat question was that there are two ways of looking

1765
02:40:42,200 --> 02:40:47,000
at what is helpful in that situation. One is that we ensure that a house remains affordable

1766
02:40:47,000 --> 02:40:53,300
at a location, and the other is that we provide an opportunity for someone to realize the

1767
02:40:53,300 --> 02:40:57,980
profit on their property, and that those things are mutually exclusive in this situation.

1768
02:40:58,440 --> 02:41:05,100
And when I think about Delores' question about what Luma will do to help people, to me,

1769
02:41:05,800 --> 02:41:08,620
it's a different situation because it's not necessarily mutually exclusive.

1770
02:41:09,120 --> 02:41:15,420
But one option is we have a Luma that enables people in certain neighborhoods to sell their property at a higher value

1771
02:41:15,420 --> 02:41:19,400
because of what we are permitting to be built there, and then it stops being affordable.

1772
02:41:19,400 --> 02:41:22,260
And another option is that we try to freeze things in place

1773
02:41:22,260 --> 02:41:22,980
to this day's affordable.

1774
02:41:23,240 --> 02:41:25,200
And I would be really curious to know

1775
02:41:25,200 --> 02:41:27,240
when we're doing these ambassador sessions,

1776
02:41:27,240 --> 02:41:28,940
if the community is saying what I want

1777
02:41:28,940 --> 02:41:31,260
is to be able to sell my property and make a lot of money,

1778
02:41:31,540 --> 02:41:33,540
or if they're saying what I want is for this community

1779
02:41:33,540 --> 02:41:36,300
to remain in this geographic area,

1780
02:41:36,660 --> 02:41:37,520
affordable in a certain way.

1781
02:41:37,700 --> 02:41:40,200
I don't have an opinion yet about what I want,

1782
02:41:40,340 --> 02:41:43,020
but I don't know what the community wants about that.

1783
02:41:43,020 --> 02:41:45,000
And I would be interested in knowing that.

1784
02:41:46,940 --> 02:42:00,520
And to ask where there are specific questions that you wanted us to address, I know one of them I think we got to, which was the interest in assisting affordable housing developers.

1785
02:42:03,080 --> 02:42:10,420
I think you heard of, well, yes, but I think we already, I think you had a resounding yes on that.

1786
02:42:10,420 --> 02:42:15,460
Was there anything else you needed some sort of head nod, thumbs up, something else?

1787
02:42:15,540 --> 02:42:17,120
I thought there was, but I lost it.

1788
02:42:17,840 --> 02:42:25,180
No, I think part of the goal here was to start to socialize some of these economic analysis

1789
02:42:25,180 --> 02:42:31,120
right before we jump into the, before we jump into the so-what, so we get a chance to digest.

1790
02:42:31,900 --> 02:42:37,920
And so as long as there is just kind of a general comfort with the analysis itself

1791
02:42:37,920 --> 02:42:40,980
and no questions from y'all on a substantive level.

1792
02:42:41,720 --> 02:42:43,500
There's no asks for that.

1793
02:42:43,500 --> 02:42:44,080
No, that's fine.

1794
02:42:44,140 --> 02:42:45,460
I didn't have a four council member.

1795
02:42:45,620 --> 02:42:46,120
No, it was down.

1796
02:42:46,260 --> 02:42:50,320
I just wanted to make sure you didn't need like a boop boop boop from us.

1797
02:42:50,920 --> 02:42:53,260
Council member Ryan followed by council member Stegman.

1798
02:42:54,080 --> 02:42:57,180
Okay, so just I know we're not doing design guidelines tonight,

1799
02:42:57,380 --> 02:42:58,780
but just a couple of quick comments.

1800
02:42:59,260 --> 02:43:02,840
The engineering and design manual is where a lot of rubber hits the road

1801
02:43:02,840 --> 02:43:05,640
in terms of the details of making this stuff happen.

1802
02:43:05,640 --> 02:43:10,180
And so I don't know if there's a plan for updating that, but that's going to be an important

1803
02:43:10,180 --> 02:43:10,700
piece.

1804
02:43:10,840 --> 02:43:15,780
Right now we have some very, very suburban street standards, for instance, that are going

1805
02:43:15,780 --> 02:43:18,820
to fight against the kind of infill and things that we're trying to accomplish.

1806
02:43:19,620 --> 02:43:21,380
So just to keep that on the radar.

1807
02:43:24,220 --> 02:43:29,120
So I'm looking forward to the design standards and to having kind of one set of rules

1808
02:43:29,120 --> 02:43:31,740
for the town instead of individually things.

1809
02:43:31,740 --> 02:43:34,400
And again, I hope a street pallet is in there.

1810
02:43:34,420 --> 02:43:35,940
I think that's going to be really important.

1811
02:43:36,600 --> 02:43:40,880
So shifting to the affordable housing analysis, again,

1812
02:43:41,040 --> 02:43:44,380
I thought the analysis you gave us was just great.

1813
02:43:44,420 --> 02:43:46,240
Thank you very much for that.

1814
02:43:47,020 --> 02:43:49,380
As you think about small scale, I know you're focused right now

1815
02:43:49,380 --> 02:43:51,640
in housing, but it also could be in-field commercial.

1816
02:43:52,600 --> 02:43:54,920
Some of these same things are going to apply to that.

1817
02:43:54,920 --> 02:43:56,580
So I think that that's going to be, you know,

1818
02:43:56,640 --> 02:43:58,200
especially in places like downtown.

1819
02:43:58,780 --> 02:44:01,160
That's going to be really important to help think about them

1820
02:44:01,160 --> 02:44:03,680
part of this whole thing.

1821
02:44:06,040 --> 02:44:10,040
I think looking at how our regulations are standing in the way of getting

1822
02:44:10,040 --> 02:44:13,680
more of the housing belt that we want. I know I've had developers come and say, look, I wanted

1823
02:44:13,680 --> 02:44:18,300
to do two houses on this lot. I couldn't because of this, you know, my F.A.R. was off and that

1824
02:44:18,300 --> 02:44:22,620
the other, and it was clearly a place where that would have worked well. So thank you for looking

1825
02:44:22,620 --> 02:44:28,740
into that. I liked that we're going to start thinking about large development and small

1826
02:44:28,740 --> 02:44:31,240
and fill differently, I think that that's very appropriate

1827
02:44:31,240 --> 02:44:35,700
and not, I think we have a lot of good things to gain there.

1828
02:44:35,960 --> 02:44:38,120
I think going by right on smaller in fill

1829
02:44:38,120 --> 02:44:39,000
will make it possible.

1830
02:44:39,860 --> 02:44:42,140
So I'm happy that we're going to do that.

1831
02:44:42,140 --> 02:44:45,540
I think we have to remember that tonight was focused on housing,

1832
02:44:45,720 --> 02:44:48,200
but there are also other important benefits that we get.

1833
02:44:48,620 --> 02:44:51,620
So as we move towards that by right on smaller properties,

1834
02:44:51,820 --> 02:44:54,580
we have to think about what are those other things,

1835
02:44:54,760 --> 02:44:57,720
like our mobility pieces that we're trying to get.

1836
02:44:57,720 --> 02:44:59,980
And then maybe as we look, as we look into it.

1837
02:45:00,000 --> 02:45:16,980
Infill affordable, maybe we relax things there, but if we're looking at infill market, I think we need to strike that balance between what's going to work for the developer and make that infill possible, but also really keep up the values that we hold and those things that are important to us.

1838
02:45:17,860 --> 02:45:26,040
So just as a general comment, I'm glad to hear that we're going to have more meetings, because I love more meetings on Lugo.

1839
02:45:27,880 --> 02:45:36,860
I think, sorry guys, I can't help it, but I think I'm feeling like if you guys are going

1840
02:45:36,860 --> 02:45:40,560
away from the summer saying we're getting ready to write and we really feel like we know

1841
02:45:40,560 --> 02:45:45,040
where we're going. I feel like we still have some more discussion time that we need.

1842
02:45:45,780 --> 02:45:50,340
You know, we still, I know we've been talking, you talked about having a lot of these things

1843
02:45:50,340 --> 02:45:55,960
have been kind of constant themes during our discussions and I think that's true, but I feel

1844
02:45:55,960 --> 02:45:58,960
like we've talked about them at sort of a thematic level

1845
02:45:58,960 --> 02:46:02,080
and we haven't really hashed out so many things saying,

1846
02:46:02,100 --> 02:46:04,720
you know, this is what's important to us

1847
02:46:04,720 --> 02:46:06,680
if this is the direction we really want to go.

1848
02:46:08,120 --> 02:46:10,960
So I would love to see before you guys actually start

1849
02:46:10,960 --> 02:46:14,080
doing really detailed work that we have some more chances

1850
02:46:14,080 --> 02:46:17,140
to have that discussion and I would love to have

1851
02:46:17,140 --> 02:46:20,580
at some time before that break that you guys come to us

1852
02:46:20,580 --> 02:46:21,800
and say this is what we've heard.

1853
02:46:21,880 --> 02:46:24,040
These are the things, these are the important policy things

1854
02:46:24,040 --> 02:46:25,180
that we've heard that you want.

1855
02:46:25,180 --> 02:46:29,040
just so that we can go on that break feeling like we understand each other.

1856
02:46:29,080 --> 02:46:30,580
I think that's going to be really important.

1857
02:46:31,540 --> 02:46:34,840
Yeah, I was just going to say I heard the manager clears throat.

1858
02:46:36,020 --> 02:46:39,300
But we are in conflict with them about,

1859
02:46:39,720 --> 02:46:42,240
but the manager's office about how we can provide you

1860
02:46:42,240 --> 02:46:45,900
doesn't more opportunities to do deep labs or to bring information

1861
02:46:45,900 --> 02:46:49,100
to you as we're getting questions and we'll continue to work with them.

1862
02:46:49,240 --> 02:46:52,900
So if there's a way for us to wrap up

1863
02:46:52,900 --> 02:46:58,680
for, before June or during, in June, once we finish these work sessions and kind of summarise

1864
02:46:58,680 --> 02:47:02,760
for you, if that could be helpful, we can talk about what the manager's always about ways to do.

1865
02:47:02,820 --> 02:47:06,600
I think that would be super helpful. And again, it's not, it's not always going to be a deep

1866
02:47:06,600 --> 02:47:11,420
dive just to make sure even at the high level that, you know, nine people are going to have different

1867
02:47:11,420 --> 02:47:17,880
opinions, but that we have a council guidance that's that goes forward. That's clear. Thank you.

1868
02:47:18,880 --> 02:47:20,800
Council Member Stegman?

1869
02:47:21,940 --> 02:47:23,680
I thought it might Council Member Miller for you.

1870
02:47:25,500 --> 02:47:27,680
Yeah, first of all, thank you.

1871
02:47:28,320 --> 02:47:32,240
I was so excited to see the equity analysis.

1872
02:47:33,280 --> 02:47:36,340
We kind of make reference to it and talk about it.

1873
02:47:36,540 --> 02:47:39,020
But to have it all laid out point by point late.

1874
02:47:39,020 --> 02:47:41,940
That was just so important, so powerful.

1875
02:47:41,940 --> 02:47:52,840
and yeah, I think to Melissa's earlier point, more ways we can kind of help the community

1876
02:47:52,840 --> 02:47:56,860
understand that that groundwork that we're going to be building from.

1877
02:47:57,760 --> 02:48:05,500
Of like, it's not just out Chapel Hill or this council came up with this idea or, you know,

1878
02:48:05,700 --> 02:48:11,920
sort of just that there's a lot of evidence and research and best practice that is under

1879
02:48:11,920 --> 02:48:17,920
all of these things we're trying to do and trying to change and harms we're mitigating all of

1880
02:48:17,920 --> 02:48:23,940
these things are just so important to this work. Say thank you for that. And I want to just

1881
02:48:24,620 --> 02:48:31,740
mention this before, but just say that certainly for myself I have an appetite, you know, one of

1882
02:48:31,740 --> 02:48:37,480
the things pointed out in the equity analysis was around the kind of what I would call overuse

1883
02:48:37,480 --> 02:48:44,220
of neighborhood conservation districts, historic district boundaries, all of these things that are

1884
02:48:44,220 --> 02:48:52,960
you know, definitely impact as a group of our early injuries and have been a barrier to

1885
02:48:52,960 --> 02:48:59,120
Chapel Hill sort of naturally evolving the way it could have, say that we're not kind of trying

1886
02:48:59,120 --> 02:49:06,560
to play catch up. So I certainly have an appetite to hear some ways that we could address some of

1887
02:49:06,560 --> 02:49:14,960
that moving forward, ways we can balance some of the interests and needs, but really push

1888
02:49:14,960 --> 02:49:20,360
for best practice in all the areas of the re-wraight.

1889
02:49:23,460 --> 02:49:25,600
Yeah, certainly else.

1890
02:49:26,580 --> 02:49:32,180
And, you know, a summary or some kind of thing at the end of before we break for summer,

1891
02:49:32,180 --> 02:49:38,920
I'd be great, but I do feel like for myself that as we're having these sort of remote check-ins,

1892
02:49:39,300 --> 02:49:43,180
I do feel like you're saying, here's the things we're thinking about getting that input from us,

1893
02:49:43,240 --> 02:49:49,000
so I do feel like, I mean, I understand there's sort of an in-between step,

1894
02:49:49,540 --> 02:49:55,340
but I do feel like we're kind of checking in as we're going on to a policy direction,

1895
02:49:55,940 --> 02:49:59,620
and I appreciate that you're trying to keep us at that policy level.

1896
02:50:00,180 --> 02:50:01,880
For me, it's working.

1897
02:50:04,040 --> 02:50:08,040
Yeah, that's it for me. Thank you. Council member Miller, Frisci.

1898
02:50:09,220 --> 02:50:13,740
Yeah, I'm struggling with trying to get my thoughts together, so I'm not scattered.

1899
02:50:14,820 --> 02:50:22,120
But I'm very clear on having sat in on the planning commission presentation that you all did.

1900
02:50:22,140 --> 02:50:24,840
You couldn't see me, but I was like, took zero in in my house.

1901
02:50:24,840 --> 02:50:33,040
like this was like spot on and it's councilmember segment just stayed at the racial equity work

1902
02:50:33,040 --> 02:50:43,780
that you're doing is so, so, so important and really happy to see that happening. I too share

1903
02:50:43,780 --> 02:50:51,000
interests in looking at our neighborhood conservation districts. Can you remind me I know

1904
02:50:51,000 --> 02:50:55,800
not question time, but how many neighborhood conservation districts do we have right now?

1905
02:50:58,460 --> 02:51:04,620
There are 10 neighborhood conservation districts. And of those, how many allow for affordable

1906
02:51:04,620 --> 02:51:05,900
housing to be built?

1907
02:51:08,240 --> 02:51:14,000
As in terms of like the like restriction that doesn't really go by neighborhood

1908
02:51:14,000 --> 02:51:23,000
conservation district in that way. Okay, so which neighborhood

1909
02:51:23,000 --> 02:51:26,680
costs reservation district have we seen the most affordable housing

1910
02:51:26,680 --> 02:51:27,220
building

1911
02:51:29,970 --> 02:51:34,050
that I'd have to look into that but off the top of my head

1912
02:51:34,050 --> 02:51:40,750
I've seen the most in north side and I could not just from

1913
02:51:40,750 --> 02:51:43,690
of the housing stock in the other areas,

1914
02:51:44,970 --> 02:51:47,290
name Uden Glenn Linux, I guess,

1915
02:51:47,990 --> 02:51:50,070
but I think there's a master-releasing program in Glenn Linux.

1916
02:51:51,790 --> 02:51:54,890
I'm raising these questions because I think it's something

1917
02:51:54,890 --> 02:51:59,550
that we're talking about equity land use in communities.

1918
02:52:01,730 --> 02:52:04,510
And just from my not even looking at the data,

1919
02:52:05,010 --> 02:52:06,930
I don't see neighborhood conservation districts

1920
02:52:06,930 --> 02:52:08,750
operating in the same ways

1921
02:52:08,750 --> 02:52:16,530
that I've seen like the Northside Pineau's who understand this history of discriminatory housing

1922
02:52:16,530 --> 02:52:24,270
practices. And it is imperative that we, when looking at our neighborhood, conservation districts,

1923
02:52:24,690 --> 02:52:31,050
really look at the data and see how they are reflective of the way we're trying to move

1924
02:52:31,050 --> 02:52:39,850
understanding of lead use. In the past just five years alone, I've seen, within the

1925
02:52:39,850 --> 02:52:46,850
north side, pine nose, neighborhood conservation district, affordable housing being welcomed,

1926
02:52:48,250 --> 02:53:00,230
no community pushed back with. And for me, that speaks to a value that we have, and it really,

1927
02:53:00,230 --> 02:53:10,730
that conservation, what are we preserving when it comes to housing and that that's a really important

1928
02:53:10,730 --> 02:53:20,370
comment for me in connection with the racial equity work that we're doing also want to talk

1929
02:53:20,370 --> 02:53:29,250
to the community benefits for especially our small scale housing. I want to make sure that

1930
02:53:29,250 --> 02:53:32,850
We don't use community benefits to

1931
02:53:32,850 --> 02:53:38,270
wort any of our housing projects in general

1932
02:53:38,270 --> 02:53:41,500
and really making sure that

1933
02:53:44,530 --> 02:53:46,690
it's a tool

1934
02:53:48,700 --> 02:53:51,560
that doesn't undermine our goals

1935
02:53:52,540 --> 02:53:55,630
and you know, tested a really good job of

1936
02:53:56,280 --> 02:54:00,720
illustrating how small-scale projects can't

1937
02:54:00,720 --> 02:54:08,480
hold affordable housing, I think understanding that too in terms of community benefits is something

1938
02:54:08,480 --> 02:54:14,420
that's important to me as well so that we're not forwarding what we're trying to do because

1939
02:54:14,420 --> 02:54:24,920
housing is a benefit and sometimes small scale you know developments may not be able to provide

1940
02:54:24,920 --> 02:54:33,480
the others benefit that we wouldn't normally see or bear the costs of that. I don't see that

1941
02:54:33,480 --> 02:54:41,320
as giving up our values but really making sure that we're not using community benefits or the

1942
02:54:41,320 --> 02:54:50,380
tools in a way that don't allow us to achieve our goals. Especially in a crippling housing

1943
02:54:50,380 --> 02:54:52,820
before the ability crisis that we're in right now.

1944
02:54:53,140 --> 02:54:56,400
And I think there was one other thing

1945
02:54:56,400 --> 02:54:59,960
that I have to say, I think you all are...

1946
02:55:00,000 --> 02:55:13,890
I want to really great job to our planning director, like your team is amazing. I feel like the updates that you all are giving. I too feel really good about it.

1947
02:55:15,990 --> 02:55:24,950
I don't know what I'm hearing is like we're asking for to get feedback on things that haven't been drafted yet.

1948
02:55:24,950 --> 02:55:32,610
And so, there were some concerns raised, and I'm hoping to be able to just off the day

1949
02:55:32,610 --> 02:55:36,750
as talk to some of my colleagues about what it is that they're asking from you, but

1950
02:55:36,750 --> 02:55:44,030
I feel comfortable with the process and where it is, the strategies, the keeping us high

1951
02:55:44,030 --> 02:55:49,770
level, being able to give the feedback and everything, so this feels good to me.

1952
02:55:49,770 --> 02:55:55,950
Um, I don't feel like I'm going to get, like you're going to, like we've been asking

1953
02:55:55,950 --> 02:56:00,410
you not to do, like just dumping a whole bunch of stuff on us that once, I feel like

1954
02:56:00,410 --> 02:56:02,610
these touches have been really, really important.

1955
02:56:03,010 --> 02:56:11,030
And I think with what I'm here and we're going to get more and more of that, I do appreciate

1956
02:56:11,610 --> 02:56:16,830
some help, like I did here from some of my colleagues, like helping us keep track of our

1957
02:56:16,830 --> 02:56:24,210
and where we are. That would be really helpful. But you have work to do and I know we want

1958
02:56:24,210 --> 02:56:28,990
to see where you're at in that work, but I know you can't give us something to look at until

1959
02:56:28,990 --> 02:56:37,270
you had an opportunity to draft it yourself. This is great work. It's a lot of work. It's very intricate work.

1960
02:56:37,590 --> 02:56:38,430
Thank you.

1961
02:56:40,460 --> 02:56:41,020
Council member Barry.

1962
02:56:43,280 --> 02:56:47,100
Thank you. Yeah, I appreciate this presentation. I appreciate

1963
02:56:47,100 --> 02:56:53,740
the updates that you continue to bring to us. I'm going to jump off of what Councilmember

1964
02:56:53,740 --> 02:57:01,880
Miller Fashay and Stegman just said. I do think that these updates are coming

1965
02:57:03,000 --> 02:57:06,680
well enough for us. And I think some of the queries that have been posed

1966
02:57:07,360 --> 02:57:13,300
are will be coming in future because you alluded to them will be forthcoming in future presentations.

1967
02:57:15,040 --> 02:57:20,560
I did write down, because you know I take my notes of what is mean said, I did write down

1968
02:57:20,560 --> 02:57:25,020
that the tempo will change and that we need to strap in. Like Councilmember or Mayor

1969
02:57:25,500 --> 02:57:33,420
Protem, Ryan, I signed up for the meetings as well. For limo as well as budget and bond.

1970
02:57:34,460 --> 02:57:38,940
So I'm good with more meetings in order to get it done. I'm not good with more meetings

1971
02:57:38,940 --> 02:57:43,940
just to you. So I'll try to be more succinct here with

1972
02:57:46,050 --> 02:57:49,070
regards to something that has been

1973
02:57:49,070 --> 02:58:02,610
said tonight a couple of times. The notion that receiving subsidies from the town shackles you

1974
02:58:02,610 --> 02:58:10,150
to not building generational wealth is an untenable and I'm paraphrasing here. This is what I've

1975
02:58:10,150 --> 02:58:12,670
an untenable trade-off.

1976
02:58:13,110 --> 02:58:14,630
Let me paint it for you differently.

1977
02:58:16,090 --> 02:58:17,110
It provides housing.

1978
02:58:17,250 --> 02:58:19,210
Now, I'm going to do this through the lens of being

1979
02:58:19,210 --> 02:58:21,090
a former community home trust employee.

1980
02:58:23,840 --> 02:58:29,380
You have an opportunity to buy low risk.

1981
02:58:30,700 --> 02:58:34,140
And the return on that is low as well.

1982
02:58:34,260 --> 02:58:36,920
So when you sell, you don't have

1983
02:58:36,920 --> 02:58:39,760
this great appreciation as you put on the free market.

1984
02:58:39,760 --> 02:58:51,180
But what you do have is stability, what you do have is a partner throughout, what you do have is a partner with the town as well.

1985
02:58:52,400 --> 02:58:56,640
And it is, there are trade-offs.

1986
02:58:57,140 --> 02:59:06,000
So if you want to be in the free market, then public assistance may not be the option for you,

1987
02:59:06,000 --> 02:59:12,840
least not what the town offers and I really want my colleagues to learn more about the different

1988
02:59:12,840 --> 02:59:18,980
affordable housing options that are offered by partners in this community so that we can

1989
02:59:18,980 --> 02:59:22,780
understand better. Thank you.

1990
02:59:26,400 --> 02:59:33,760
Other comments? Okay. I will wrap us up. I think you're hearing

1991
02:59:33,760 --> 02:59:38,540
a lot of appreciation for the equity work and it's actually really exciting for us to have it

1992
02:59:38,540 --> 02:59:42,720
I mean, in a meeting that we know there's been a lot going on in the organization for a couple

1993
02:59:42,720 --> 02:59:48,380
years now, but to have it come to us and be part of our conversation, I think, very exciting.

1994
02:59:50,060 --> 02:59:55,200
So, as some very disappointing things are happening in other places, we are going strong

1995
02:59:55,200 --> 02:59:57,500
with our racial equity work. So thank you for that.

1996
03:00:00,020 --> 03:00:14,780
I think one question I do abstuggling with myself is I know that there's a lot of things that we can build into ordinance that we don't have to negotiate for a period.

1997
03:00:14,980 --> 03:00:23,960
We can require a lot of the things we want to require. There's only a couple that are really important to us that we maybe can't require that we would have to negotiate for.

1998
03:00:23,960 --> 03:00:35,760
And I think one of those, one of the things is certainly affordable housing, but also one of our speakers spoke to it, which was affordable, affordable retail commercial, etc.

1999
03:00:35,920 --> 03:00:46,960
So I would really like to understand that more and maybe there's something I'm missing that that's just not something that can be dealt with the same way affordable housing is, but I just would like to understand it better.

2000
03:00:46,960 --> 03:00:53,800
So if I could come back, I think I am looking forward to seeing how this all fits together

2001
03:00:53,800 --> 03:00:57,580
and how we are kind of working towards our complete community vision.

2002
03:00:59,260 --> 03:01:03,960
I think the intention of these work sessions has been to keep us out of the weeds

2003
03:01:03,960 --> 03:01:08,720
is to be at the policy level and I am not a planner but I am a policy analyst and I'm a policy

2004
03:01:08,720 --> 03:01:13,640
professional and we always would have policy conversations before the work was done.

2005
03:01:13,640 --> 03:01:17,640
that's just the order we have to be in in order to not be

2006
03:01:18,940 --> 03:01:22,140
redoing everything at the end, so I really appreciate that you all have

2007
03:01:22,140 --> 03:01:25,120
kept us at a policy level, but that also we've been having these

2008
03:01:25,120 --> 03:01:27,080
conversations before the writing is happening.

2009
03:01:28,660 --> 03:01:35,480
So I think it is really important that we kind of have a

2010
03:01:35,480 --> 03:01:38,380
before we leave for the summer understanding where we are

2011
03:01:38,380 --> 03:01:41,520
and sending you off and great shape to go to the very

2012
03:01:41,520 --> 03:01:44,560
our Jewish work that is coming for you.

2013
03:01:45,300 --> 03:01:49,840
And so I think it's just important that we understand

2014
03:01:49,840 --> 03:01:53,140
we know what the Council kind of majority direction is

2015
03:01:53,140 --> 03:01:55,060
that not individual council members,

2016
03:01:55,360 --> 03:01:57,380
but that the Council with the majority has asked for

2017
03:01:57,380 --> 03:01:59,960
and that that be how we be going off to the summer.

2018
03:02:01,740 --> 03:02:05,080
I think it's really really helpful to have that analysis

2019
03:02:05,080 --> 03:02:07,100
that it confirmed our understanding,

2020
03:02:07,400 --> 03:02:10,460
which is we cannot density bonus

2021
03:02:10,460 --> 03:02:17,680
affordable housing and that we want to do as much as administratively as we can but then there's

2022
03:02:17,680 --> 03:02:26,620
this place of what do we do pass that point. I think the other thing that I'm really looking

2023
03:02:26,620 --> 03:02:33,040
forward to talking about is kind of that public realm, third spaces, I know it's not just council

2024
03:02:33,040 --> 03:02:39,440
on Burberry that cares about those, although she works at one, but, well, see, she's adding

2025
03:02:39,440 --> 03:02:46,780
to her list, but I think really thinking about that public realm and sense of place is going

2026
03:02:46,780 --> 03:02:47,600
to be really important.

2027
03:02:47,600 --> 03:02:52,760
All this, that, of course, we are working toward, like, developers have told us, they need

2028
03:02:52,760 --> 03:02:56,440
clarity and predictability, and they need some, a lot of to be, to be streamlined.

2029
03:02:56,440 --> 03:03:03,820
And I also am very supportive of us figuring out the things that really just need to be

2030
03:03:03,820 --> 03:03:04,360
administering.

2031
03:03:04,860 --> 03:03:10,000
And then it has to be a higher bar than we've had, which is everything coming to us, which

2032
03:03:10,000 --> 03:03:10,860
is untenable.

2033
03:03:11,120 --> 03:03:12,640
And it's actually driving me crazy.

2034
03:03:13,500 --> 03:03:15,340
So even for my own sanity, that would be delightful.

2035
03:03:15,560 --> 03:03:18,820
But also, I really, for best outcomes, we know that.

2036
03:03:19,760 --> 03:03:24,360
But also, really thinking about, you know, we agree on streamlining.

2037
03:03:24,360 --> 03:03:30,500
we also really want to focus on those outcomes and the sense of place and also what are we

2038
03:03:30,500 --> 03:03:36,620
really trying to be as a community in terms of those public spaces. And so I'm really looking

2039
03:03:36,620 --> 03:03:41,840
forward to understanding more about that and then hearing from our CDC and the kind of good

2040
03:03:41,840 --> 03:03:48,700
work that we combine with the other things that have already happened. I think finally I do agree

2041
03:03:48,700 --> 03:03:55,720
with Councilmember Ryan that the engineering design manual is at least from my limited

2042
03:03:55,720 --> 03:03:59,920
understanding has been getting in our way, often, of the good outcomes that we're looking

2043
03:03:59,920 --> 03:04:00,280
for.

2044
03:04:00,500 --> 03:04:06,940
Even when we set a really good modern standard, when our engineering design manual is not aligned

2045
03:04:06,940 --> 03:04:11,500
with those standards, sometimes we don't get what we were hoping for, so I think it's really

2046
03:04:11,500 --> 03:04:13,940
important that we be updating that as well.

2047
03:04:13,940 --> 03:04:22,120
Um, so I think, um, we have, we have some time before the summer, um, but thank you.

2048
03:04:22,180 --> 03:04:27,020
This is really, which we just say this every time, but it's such a huge lift and we appreciate

2049
03:04:27,020 --> 03:04:32,180
you all and we do appreciate you coming to us, coming to planning and we're just looking forward

2050
03:04:32,180 --> 03:04:38,920
to kind of putting it all together and having that so what conversation, um, before we break.

2051
03:04:38,920 --> 03:04:46,100
but I know we can do it, so thank you so much staff, all of you, Council, that is the end of

2052
03:04:46,100 --> 03:04:49,640
our meeting. We do not need any action on this item, so meeting is adjourned.