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okay welcome again everyone um this is

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the board of appeals uh call to order um

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7 PM January 25th 2024 we start with a

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roll call um please indicate that you

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were present uh Mr Richard Burch present

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Mr Paul dhy present Miss Amy Everett

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present I am Mr Jody hon star um as we

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set last time we will begin with any uh

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newly received public comment by the um

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by the town Sharon have we received

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anything since our last meeting yes we

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received one at the last meeting one at

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the last meeting okay um the uh can we

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make sure we provide copies to Mr pounds

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and Mr Blitz if we haven't already um

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and enter these comments into the record

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um I will note that the contents of the

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comments will not be addressed this time

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this is just for administrative

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purposes okay um on to the second uh

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agenda item is the approval of the

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minutes from our last meeting on January

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4

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2024 um does anybody have any

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corrections they'd like to issue or is

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it all

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fine in that case I will entertain a

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motion to approve uh the minutes from

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Jan 4th I will so move have a second right all in favor I all

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right minutes are approved okay um a

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little bit more on the announcement

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front this morning um or this evening uh

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we'll be limiting to the session tonight

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to two hours so we will end around 900

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PM as normal um direct all comments and

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questions concerning the administration

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of this hearing to the board chair or

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legal counsel this applies to the

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gallery as well well do not direct

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questions or comments at the petitioner

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or staff during the presentation of

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their testimony um now this is a new one

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uh the third parties of record may ask

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questions of Any Given testimony at the

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conclusion of that testimony questions

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should generally be limited in scope to

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uh address the information presented I

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will indicate to the gallery when this

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option is

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available

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um number four uh as normal our order of

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presentation uh documented in our rules

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of procedure uh we are still on step one

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which is appellant testimony and

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evidence given by Mr Blitz and Witnesses

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once he has completed um we will uh

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offer the chance to ask questions for

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any parties of record which will then

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move on to Mr Po's uh presentation for

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any Town staff testimony evidence um

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same same questioning applies um and

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third after all this the testimony and

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evidence by the person or entity whose

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rights are impacted by the appeal you

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guys members of the public um so we yes

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okay um and once that's done we'll have

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summary statements at which point we

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will close the public hearing and what

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this means you have a correction

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D I would just like to note with respect

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to the summary statements uh we're going

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to need to determine how those summary

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statements are going to be provided what

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orally written or a combination thereof

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so uh you that will be decided later

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date um okay wrapping that all up uh

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this means uh our normal notice for

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members of the public if you have

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attended here with the intent to State

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your opinion it most likely will not

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happen tonight although we are getting

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closer um if this is inconvenient we

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will take written statements if you'd

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like to provide them uh I'd also like to

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urge you to submit your REM marks at the

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conclusion of the testimony taking what

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you hear into account you're welcome to

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submit written comments at any time but

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we the board would uh most appreciate

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comments that are within the scope of

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what were able to rule on thank you

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that's all for the uh announcements and

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now we continue on um with case

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20233 Roden reel Incorporated Donovan

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Estates LLC to consider an application

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from the Roden reel LC Donovan Estates

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uh 4160 MIRS Avenue Chesapeake Beach

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Maryland for a decision on

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interpretation or alleged error to

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article 6 section 29023 29031 A1 A6 of

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the Chesapeake Beach zoning ordinance

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and C 3 uh 309 c310 and c311 of the

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Chesapeake Beach Town Charter uh

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applicant requests the Chesapeake Beach

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zoning board of appeals to quote order

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the zoning administrator uh and planning

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and zoning commission to immediately

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commence and prioritize the processing

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and review of the relevant site plan

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submitted by the Roden reel Incorporated

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Don States LLC and that the zoning

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administrator and planning and zoning

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commission be ordered to apply the

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zoning ordinances in effect as of

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January 29 2021 when the applications

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were submitted and for such other and

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further relief as the nature of their

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cause requires at this point I will pass

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it to Mr Blitz for a continuation of his

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presentation

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microphone good evening uh Eric Blitz on

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behalf of the rod and reel and the other

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applicant

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um you know we haven't had testimony I

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think since the November 8th one so I'm

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going to um

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kind of try to give a very brief summary

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of where we were so that you can pick up

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on where we are going so far our

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presentation has been focused on the

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administrative errors on the part of the

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zoning administrator and the Planning

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and Zoning commission um and in failing

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to process the five site plans filed on

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January 29th

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2021 um as they were required to do by

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Statute uh I believe we've established

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the dut duty of both to review those

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site plans and the 60-day deadline

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imposed on the Planning and Zoning

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commission for doing so um let me go to

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slide

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two so we noted the to two reasons uh

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two reasons um of the Z that the zoning

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administrator gave in response to the

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filing of the five

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applications and why they were improper

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reasons uh to deny site plan

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review and the first reason

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was that the

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commission would have a burden in site

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plan review in in undertaking the site

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plan review um be on their workload and

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the review of their site plans would

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jeopardize the commission's work on the

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comprehensive plan and the zoning

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ordinance updates um we showed why those

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reasons were

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contradicted by the explicit statutory

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command uh that they that the commission

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has to do both their planning and their

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review

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at the same time and they have to do it

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concurrently and that they had done that

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and so and they have to do as they have

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to hold as many meetings as necessary to

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do

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so certainly the long delay between the

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filing of the site plan applications in

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the passage of the comprehensive plan

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and the implementing ordinances that

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provide the specific zoning um

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requirements used in site plan review

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should be also should also be considered

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by the board um when considering the

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reasons offered by the zoning

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administrator the second justification

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was the

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moratorium so I think we've clearly

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demonstrated why we believe that the

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moratorium was directly and specifically

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targeted at the rod and reel site plan

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applications that it was invalid and

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inoperative because of it was improperly

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passed and then extended through

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resolutions and not ordinances and even

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after the purported moratorium had

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expired the zoning administrative

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Planning and Zoning commission still

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continued deny site plan review even up

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to this date so we're we're at January 25th so we're

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basically four days short of three

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years so if I'm correct and we've

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established that that was an error for

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the zoning administrator and the

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Planning and Zoning commission to deny

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site plan review today we get to the

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nature of the relief and what's

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appropriate in this case and before we

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turn to the facts and laws and arguments

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that I'll offer in favor of that

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requested relief um there has been one

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nagging issue that has been raised in

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cross-examination and arguments by um Mr

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pounds for the municipal Corporation of

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chesp beach that imply or suggest that

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the rod reel has not done what it needed

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to do to obtain a hearing or a review of

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The Five plan applications before the

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commission and I'd like to address that

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now you can see section

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29023 which we reviewed at the very

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beginning of this set of

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hearings um it sets forth the process

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site plans are required to obtain zoning

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permits to obtain a zoning permit for a

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multif family dwelling the property

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owner is required to submit a category

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one site plan and their application for

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with their application for a zoning

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permit you will recall that the app

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Roden Rio applications included some

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form of multif family

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dwellings on as their proposals so they

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all were category one site plans with

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the requisite information required by

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section

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29024 and that section provides a whole

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long list of what's needed to be

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provided with

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plans so the Roden reel filed the

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application on the form provided by the

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town which you can see in exhibit five

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which we already have in record labeled

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as a zoning permit

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application and as you can see in

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exhibits five and six those applications

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included the required site plan

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applications and the critical area site

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plan requirements there's no separate

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form for requesting site plan review

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with the commission because the process

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flows directly from the filing of those

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zoning permit applications with the site

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plans and you'll see I'm going to

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demonstrate that for you in the zoning

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code the property owner is requesting a

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zoning permit in the application but

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because site plan review is required for

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that zoning permit that's when the site

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plan process is

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triggered in your binder on the

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reference statutes and cases I had

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included section

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29027 of the town's zoning

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code and you can see in subsection D it

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makes it explicit that all applications

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for zoning permits shall be accompanied

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by the site plans complying with the

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provisions of article six and that

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application for the zoning permit is

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there for the application for site plan

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review in section 29023 it sets forth

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the process of what happens after the

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filing of the application for a zoning

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permit requiring site plan it's all in

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section sub subsection

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C the applicant shall submit a completed

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application so that's Our obligation the

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appropriate fee and the site plan for

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them to the public works SL zoning

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administrator in C2 the administrator

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shall review the application for

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completeness and will refer the

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application to the appropriate

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individuals or agencies for review

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comment and or or for

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approval in C3 the Planning and Zoning

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commission will review and take action

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on category one site plans and in C4 for

281
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:08,920
all

282
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,040
category category one site plan

283
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,920
submitted for review the commission

284
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,839
shall it says a submit written notice to

285
00:13:16,839 --> 00:13:19,240
the applicant by first class mail such

286
00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,160
to be postmarked at least 10 days prior

287
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,040
to the meeting to discuss the site

288
00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:25,399
plan submit written notice to all the

289
00:13:25,399 --> 00:13:27,360
owners adjoining immediately across the

290
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,000
street from the subject property

291
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,680
and such written notice has to state the

292
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:33,480
date the time the place subject matter

293
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,360
of the meeting to discuss the site

294
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,000
plan so as you can see in section four

295
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,240
it's incumbent upon the Planning and

296
00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,360
Zoning commission to set the meeting

297
00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,320
send the written no notices to the

298
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:45,560
applicant and to the adjoining property

299
00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:48,279
owners um at least 10 days prior to that

300
00:13:48,279 --> 00:13:51,199
meeting and all we do is file the

301
00:13:51,199 --> 00:13:53,519
application that triggers that

302
00:13:53,519 --> 00:13:56,120
process and I say we I meant the rod and

303
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,759
reel I

304
00:13:57,759 --> 00:14:00,560
apologize

305
00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:02,759
there's no statutory requirement or rule

306
00:14:02,759 --> 00:14:05,279
of procedure that's imposed on the

307
00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:07,600
applicants such as the rod reel that

308
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,800
would require to make a separate request

309
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,800
for a hearing before the

310
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,800
commission and you may recall we also

311
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,560
covered section 29026 of the Town zoning

312
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,160
ordinance in the first hearing which in

313
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,079
subsection 15 demonstrates how the

314
00:14:23,079 --> 00:14:25,399
zoning administrator reviews the

315
00:14:25,399 --> 00:14:26,800
application and forwards the

316
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,360
administrator's comments to the

317
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,279
commission

318
00:14:29,279 --> 00:14:41,949
for that meeting it's typically a staff

319
00:14:41,959 --> 00:14:44,279
report so there there I've given you

320
00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:46,959
section 2926 which requires the zoning

321
00:14:46,959 --> 00:14:48,959
administrator to intake to act as the

322
00:14:48,959 --> 00:14:51,600
intake administrator for the filings and

323
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,880
in B1 the zoning administrator receives

324
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:55,320
and examines the

325
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,680
applications um and refers them to the

326
00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,920
commission

327
00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:02,959
um each of the rod and reel applications

328
00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:05,480
uh called for many more than three off

329
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,240
Street parkings so even if they were not

330
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,839
category one site plans they would have

331
00:15:09,839 --> 00:15:11,199
to be referred to the commission for

332
00:15:11,199 --> 00:15:15,959
review and approval um but what I'm

333
00:15:15,959 --> 00:15:18,920
stressing to you I'm hoping is that this

334
00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:20,839
is an automatic process not requiring

335
00:15:20,839 --> 00:15:23,600
any additional requests by the applicant

336
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,000
to the commission or the zoning

337
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:27,519
administrator as the zoning

338
00:15:27,519 --> 00:15:30,560
administrator acts as the

339
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,269
take

340
00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:38,839
person in 2925 and subsection B15 you

341
00:15:38,839 --> 00:15:39,560
can

342
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,720
see that the zoning administrator

343
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,000
reviews the applications submits them to

344
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,959
for review and approval in accordance

345
00:15:45,959 --> 00:15:49,160
with article six article six is includes

346
00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,920
section 29

347
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,240
29023 that we just

348
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,480
reviewed and there was testimony from Mr

349
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,600
Woodburn that the applications met the

350
00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:00,360
requirements for a category one site

351
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,240
plan and that a critical area site plan

352
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:04,480
was also

353
00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,000
submitted and so the question is why

354
00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,519
would the rod and reel file all this

355
00:16:08,519 --> 00:16:10,839
exhaustive list of information necessary

356
00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:13,880
for category one site plans review if

357
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,600
they weren't asking for site plan

358
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,040
review all remember also that we

359
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:21,399
established that all five of these

360
00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:22,880
projects are in the critical

361
00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:27,509
area

362
00:16:27,519 --> 00:16:42,509
um

363
00:16:42,519 --> 00:16:52,230
seem to uh

364
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:57,470
be

365
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,829
okay

366
00:17:02,839 --> 00:17:04,120
20

367
00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:12,710
29025 A5 is what I want okay

368
00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,319
sorry so this lists out the whole

369
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,360
procedure and I'm not going to read it

370
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:19,839
all over again but it allows you to see

371
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:21,079
what the code

372
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:24,760
provides as far as what happens after we

373
00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:26,679
file the zoning application with the

374
00:17:26,679 --> 00:17:34,549
site plans

375
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:36,080
yes

376
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,720
after for you to provide us with a copy

377
00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:46,230
of the PowerPoint

378
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,320
absolutely I think I did for the first

379
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,120
one but I don't remember you asking for

380
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:55,710
the other ones do you want all of

381
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:57,400
them

382
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:23,669
yes

383
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:27,799
okay what I'm gonna pass out to you now

384
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:30,950
is

385
00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:57,310
additions to your

386
00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:07,430
um

387
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:11,360
first one is the schedule of

388
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,280
fees

389
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,559
for site

390
00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:19,320
plans and as you can also see go to the

391
00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:20,080
next

392
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,360
slide which is just what you've got

393
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:24,720
there I'm

394
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,240
emphasizing

395
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,799
that the fees are much higher when you

396
00:19:30,799 --> 00:19:34,039
file a zoning permit

397
00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:36,480
or that includes a requirement for

398
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,240
category one site plans and they're

399
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:40,960
calculated based upon the nature and the

400
00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:41,960
size of the

401
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,360
construction and each of the rod and re

402
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,159
applications filed on January 29th were projects that were for 10 or more

403
00:19:49,159 --> 00:19:51,320
residential units so you can see that at

404
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,760
the bottom so that part of the fee for

405
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,240
site plan review is

406
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:58,799
4,800

407
00:19:58,799 --> 00:20:02,789
and the base application is also

408
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:06,280
raised further down on the document um

409
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:07,960
when it's a critical area site plan

410
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:11,039
which this was the all five of these

411
00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:14,039
were so since all five of the rod and

412
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:15,720
reel projects were in the critical area

413
00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,480
and involved

414
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,120
residential uses with more than 10 units

415
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,200
the total fee was calculated by the 600

416
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,360
base application fee plus the $ 4,800

417
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:28,919
for a total of $5,400 for each

418
00:20:28,919 --> 00:20:31,440
application so as an applicant is paying

419
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,400
that fee the applicant is literally

420
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:39,110
paying for site plan

421
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,720
review finally the moratorium resolution

422
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,320
listed the rod and reel project

423
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,480
submissions as the reason for passing

424
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,640
the moratorium and referred to them when

425
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,799
it recited and I'll quote from it on

426
00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:55,559
January 29th 2021 the town received in

427
00:20:55,559 --> 00:20:57,400
one delivery applications for four

428
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,799
separate major development site plans in

429
00:20:59,799 --> 00:21:03,120
one major Subdivision plat end quote so

430
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,440
the moratorium was designed to stop that

431
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,919
site plan

432
00:21:06,919 --> 00:21:09,320
process it specifically targeted the

433
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,360
category one site plans so it is kind

434
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:16,159
of odd to now imply that the Roden reel

435
00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:17,919
didn't ask for site plan review or

436
00:21:17,919 --> 00:21:19,880
didn't do file what it needed to be

437
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,830
filed to request site plan

438
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,279
review the town's April 13 2021 letter

439
00:21:29,279 --> 00:21:32,279
that you have as exhibit 25 uh returning

440
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:33,840
the filing fees to the Roden reel

441
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,120
referred explicitly to the five projects

442
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,799
by name but referenced the moratorium

443
00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:41,600
passed on March 18

444
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,279
2021 by describing it as a category one

445
00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:46,080
site plan review moratorium and that's

446
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,480
the reason why the projects wouldn't be

447
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,120
reviewed so I think I want I hope that

448
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,799
makes it clear to the board the Roden

449
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:54,919
reel did apply for and was entitled to

450
00:21:54,919 --> 00:21:57,120
site plan review based upon the

451
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:58,919
application they filed

452
00:21:58,919 --> 00:22:01,159
um questions about why the rod and reel

453
00:22:01,159 --> 00:22:03,480
did not go to the commission I think are

454
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,760
a distraction you can't just show up at

455
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,080
the commission and say tonight I'd like

456
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,400
you to review my site

457
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,200
plan the the town cannot both attempt to

458
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,080
Halt the process of site plan review of

459
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,720
the frod and reels applications and then

460
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,480
later suggest the site plan review by

461
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,919
the before the commission was never

462
00:22:22,919 --> 00:22:26,039
requested or applied

463
00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:28,919
for so let's turn to the relief that the

464
00:22:28,919 --> 00:22:33,990
rod and reel is

465
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,039
requesting we start with the board's

466
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:40,360
Authority and your board of appeals in

467
00:22:40,360 --> 00:22:42,600
reviewing appeal for error in the

468
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:53,669
administrative process is very

469
00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:58,120
broad this is section 4306 F of the land

470
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,039
use article of the annotated code which

471
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,080
I just handed out with it's on the

472
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,159
second part after the applications and

473
00:23:05,159 --> 00:23:06,679
as you can see in

474
00:23:06,679 --> 00:23:10,520
F1 a board May in Conformity with this

475
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,720
division wholly or partly reverse order

476
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,279
reverse the order requirement or

477
00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:17,559
decision that is subject to the appeal

478
00:23:17,559 --> 00:23:19,679
wholly or partly affirm the order

479
00:23:19,679 --> 00:23:20,840
requirement or

480
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:25,600
decision um I I may have said first is

481
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,520
revers then it's airm modify the order

482
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,039
requirement or decision that is subject

483
00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:32,480
to the appeal or issue a new order

484
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,039
requirement or decision so you have

485
00:23:35,039 --> 00:23:38,480
broad Authority if you find there was

486
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:46,350
error to administer the

487
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,640
relief then in subsection two the board

488
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,240
shall of appeals shall have all the

489
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,400
powers of the administrator officer or

490
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,200
unit from whose the action the appeal is

491
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,360
taken kind of a foundational part

492
00:24:01,360 --> 00:24:05,679
of Maryland law with respect to your

493
00:24:05,679 --> 00:24:08,200
authority to essentially step into the

494
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,320
shoes of the administrators if you find

495
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,640
that there's

496
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,840
error the power of the board is again

497
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,200
reinforced by the town zoning ordinance

498
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:20,880
which is found in section

499
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,240
29032 subsection G also a part that I

500
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,480
handed out

501
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,799
today and it restates

502
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:31,720
the Maryland statutory law in the in the

503
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:36,200
or in the ordinance same same

504
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,679
language so this broad Authority for you

505
00:24:38,679 --> 00:24:40,320
to step into the shoes of the of the

506
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,200
administrators who committed error and

507
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,840
exercise their powers is important

508
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,600
because it demonstrates that you have

509
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:49,159
the power in this appeal to not only

510
00:24:49,159 --> 00:24:51,799
determine if there was an error on the

511
00:24:51,799 --> 00:24:54,240
part of the administrators but to craft

512
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,080
the

513
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,000
relief using their powers as is

514
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,669
necessary to achieve the remedy you deem

515
00:25:02,679 --> 00:25:04,600
appropriate now you don't have cart

516
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,760
blanch Authority you could not make a a

517
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,279
word of Damages for example um because

518
00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:12,640
there is no statutory provision for that

519
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,240
and because the zoning administrator and

520
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,520
officials from whom you adopt Powers

521
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,799
don't have that power either so you can

522
00:25:20,799 --> 00:25:26,669
only take on their powers in the

523
00:25:26,679 --> 00:25:28,720
relief

524
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,159
so if the board finds that the Roden

525
00:25:30,159 --> 00:25:32,360
reel is correct that the failure of the

526
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:33,640
zoning administrator and the Planning

527
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,159
and Zoning commission to process and

528
00:25:35,159 --> 00:25:37,919
review the rod re site plan

529
00:25:37,919 --> 00:25:40,200
applications was not in accordance with

530
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:41,399
the

531
00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:45,120
law or I apologize and therefore an

532
00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,200
error so if it's not in accordance with

533
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,039
the law it's an error this is an appeal

534
00:25:50,039 --> 00:25:52,600
alleging error then the board can

535
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:55,720
reverse that by ordering both to

536
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,279
undertake the review yourselves

537
00:25:58,279 --> 00:25:59,720
as you take on that Planning and Zoning

538
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:04,120
commission's power or the board can

539
00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:07,799
order the commission as we had as I

540
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:09,559
believe the chair read off in the very

541
00:26:09,559 --> 00:26:11,440
beginning our requested relief so you

542
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:15,000
have a two alternative approaches that

543
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:25,549
we would suggest that you could

544
00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:27,799
consider and before I make the argument

545
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,000
about how I believe the board should

546
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,200
exercise its broad powers in this case I

547
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,720
need to put on some evidence and argu

548
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,600
and make some other arguments necessary

549
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,240
to convince you that you

550
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,720
should um which includes questions about

551
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,559
the fairness of the process as it was

552
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:47,720
applied to the rod and reel the

553
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,679
Injustice and impact on the Roden reels

554
00:26:50,679 --> 00:26:53,200
for having its developed development

555
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,799
applications denied for almost three

556
00:26:55,799 --> 00:26:58,520
years now and the legal implications of

557
00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:00,760
those alleged

558
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,919
errors remember that until the Town

559
00:27:02,919 --> 00:27:04,919
Council approved the comprehensive plan

560
00:27:04,919 --> 00:27:06,520
in April of

561
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,399
22

562
00:27:08,399 --> 00:27:12,880
2022 and it became effective uh in May

563
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:16,399
of 22 which is in exhibit

564
00:27:16,399 --> 00:27:19,399
31 the previous comprehensive plan was

565
00:27:19,399 --> 00:27:22,720
the plan in effect and that was what was

566
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,279
in effect when the Roden reel filed

567
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:26,510
their

568
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:32,909
applications

569
00:27:32,919 --> 00:27:36,640
so what I'd like to do now is pass out

570
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,399
um today's

571
00:27:40,399 --> 00:27:43,120
exhibits for you to include in your

572
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:56,509
binders and then we'll get to exhibit

573
00:27:56,519 --> 00:28:26,430
52

574
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:35,909
for

575
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:38,000
and Sharon I believe we're the next

576
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:40,760
exhibit would would be 52

577
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,080
correct

578
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,399
okay

579
00:28:45,399 --> 00:28:49,279
so first I would like to submit exhibit

580
00:28:49,279 --> 00:28:52,279
52 which are selected pages from the

581
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:56,440
town's 2010 comprehensive plan showing

582
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:57,840
the status of the comp comprehensive

583
00:28:57,840 --> 00:28:59,399
planning for the town that were in

584
00:28:59,399 --> 00:29:01,399
effect at the time the Roden reel filed

585
00:29:01,399 --> 00:29:04,600
its applications on January 29th

586
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,440
2021 the pages include the cover page

587
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:14,799
and Pages 7 8 18 115 116 and 131 of the

588
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,200
2010 comprehensive plan those are the

589
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:18,799
pages that are I'm going to draw your

590
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:21,840
attention to to make certain points you

591
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,640
obviously have the ability to take

592
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,200
judicial notice of the entire

593
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:31,630
comprehensive plan from 20

594
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:48,789
10 with

595
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:51,760
that as you can see from the title page

596
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,159
um to this exhibit um the 2010

597
00:29:54,159 --> 00:29:55,840
comprehensive plan was adopted on

598
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,320
January 20th of 20

599
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:00,960
I think we had put on testimony about

600
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,080
that date earlier as

601
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,760
well so since at least

602
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,320
2011 what this exhibit shows is how the

603
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,279
Planning and Zoning commission and the

604
00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:13,559
Town Council that adopted that plan um

605
00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:14,519
had

606
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:17,159
identified these anticipated

607
00:30:17,159 --> 00:30:20,360
projects upon which they could base

608
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,919
their planning or infrastructure and

609
00:30:22,919 --> 00:30:26,240
things like that so take you to slide

610
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:40,870
16 it's not

611
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:56,230
working turn on and off

612
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:25,430
buttons

613
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,240
yeah I can just go through it Qui

614
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:35,389
quickly I think

615
00:31:35,399 --> 00:31:39,789
oops

616
00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:43,360
okay on page 18 of the comprehensive

617
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,159
plan which I put up on the

618
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:49,240
PowerPoint um which is the fourth page

619
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,360
of your exhibit you can see that the

620
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,279
home place project had been granted

621
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:57,320
approval in July of 2006 for the for the

622
00:31:57,320 --> 00:32:01,919
use of 7.42 Acres of growth

623
00:32:01,919 --> 00:32:04,440
allocation as the plan recites ches

624
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,279
beake Beach had been granted 100 acres

625
00:32:07,279 --> 00:32:09,320
of growth allocation and in combination

626
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,760
with Richfield station the Home Place

627
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,559
project meant that the town had 67.5

628
00:32:14,559 --> 00:32:17,440
four acres of growth allocation

629
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,720
left growth allocation is the process of

630
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,120
converting a more restrictive critical

631
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,480
area zone um or District to a less

632
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:29,440
restrictive under your zoning ordinance

633
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,559
um when the critic

634
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:36,519
art I don't I'll just stop there it's

635
00:32:36,519 --> 00:32:38,880
part of your local critical area program

636
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,360
um that we discussed at one of these

637
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,600
previous meetings so the Home Place

638
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,240
project which is one of the five

639
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,440
projects filed by the Roden reel was

640
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,200
already in the development stage back in

641
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,919
2006 when it was granted 7.42 Acres of

642
00:32:53,919 --> 00:32:56,039
the town's growth

643
00:32:56,039 --> 00:33:05,789
allocation

644
00:33:05,799 --> 00:33:09,200
as you can see on page seven of the 2010

645
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,080
comprehensive plan page two of the

646
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,840
exhibit The stinet Place Condominiums

647
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,720
which were listed as two 16 unit multif

648
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,360
family dwellings or

649
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,039
buildings uh were part of the list of

650
00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:23,440
projected

651
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,559
developments the plan noted that the

652
00:33:25,559 --> 00:33:27,720
permits had been issued though no

653
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,549
construction had

654
00:33:30,559 --> 00:33:32,919
commenced on that same page the Home

655
00:33:32,919 --> 00:33:34,799
Place project was described with the

656
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:38,039
unit count as was included in the 2021

657
00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:40,039
Roden reel

658
00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:43,200
applications for home place which was

659
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,799
one new single family home and two 12

660
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:50,600
unit multif family buildings and that

661
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,559
the plan noted that all the approvals

662
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:54,039
had been obtained and infrastructure

663
00:33:54,039 --> 00:33:56,440
permits issued no construction had

664
00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,960
started at the time they passed that in

665
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,870
200 what was it 11 I

666
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,840
think next on the same page the plan

667
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,240
noted the Harbor Vista North

668
00:34:10,240 --> 00:34:13,119
project was being projected it noted

669
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:15,720
that this development plan was approved

670
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:18,240
but no final plants had yet been

671
00:34:18,240 --> 00:34:22,669
submitted for final approval by the

672
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,879
commission turning to the next page page

673
00:34:25,879 --> 00:34:27,720
eight

674
00:34:27,720 --> 00:34:30,359
of of the 2010 comprehensive plan Harbor

675
00:34:30,359 --> 00:34:32,760
Vista South and

676
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,639
North which we now call Harbor Vista

677
00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:38,599
South and Harbor Vista West just so you

678
00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:41,560
know the in the 2010 plan they were

679
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,119
calling them something

680
00:34:43,119 --> 00:34:45,480
different Harbor Vista South and Harbor

681
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,800
Vista West

682
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,919
um were also projected developments and

683
00:34:50,919 --> 00:34:52,480
states that the prior owner Fishing

684
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,440
Creek Landings Marina had received PR

685
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,079
preliminary approval from the commission

686
00:34:57,079 --> 00:34:59,920
in 2002 but that it was contemplating a

687
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:02,160
redesign that was to occur with the new

688
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,640
ownership which was the rod and

689
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,599
reel um so each of these projects were

690
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:09,119
well known to the Planning and Zoning

691
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:11,400
commission and the Town Council as they

692
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,160
had been included in the 2010

693
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,040
comprehensive plan and had received

694
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,800
various forms of

695
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,470
approval decades

696
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,480
ago not only were the projects described

697
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,320
generally in the 2010

698
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,599
comprehensive plan their specific unit

699
00:35:29,599 --> 00:35:32,320
counts and anticip anticipated

700
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,320
population growth were included in the

701
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,680
plan as table

702
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:42,680
22 so here's table 22 and it

703
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,599
shows all five of the rod and reel

704
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,880
projects and

705
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,000
for included the unit counts

706
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,160
um it actually had higher unit counts

707
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,240
than we have proposed for in place in

708
00:35:57,240 --> 00:36:00,589
Harbor Vista

709
00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:03,720
North and you can see those on exhibit

710
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:05,319
five

711
00:36:05,319 --> 00:36:08,359
um so Roden re development applications

712
00:36:08,359 --> 00:36:11,000
the the only one of the 2021

713
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,000
applications that we filed that has a

714
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,560
higher count than was listed in this

715
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,240
2010 comprehensive plan is Harbor Vista

716
00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:22,359
North that our application requested 23

717
00:36:22,359 --> 00:36:24,960
units which on this chart you can see

718
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:32,829
they have been planning for 16

719
00:36:32,839 --> 00:36:35,599
as you can see on page 116 table 23 the

720
00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:37,720
proposed developments which again

721
00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,200
included all five of the rod and reel

722
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,760
projects it showed the anticipated units

723
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:44,880
but also the stage of the permitting the

724
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,240
land use and then the existing

725
00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:51,240
zoning this is the table that indicates

726
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:52,800
uh you know the timeline for the

727
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,160
proposed development going between 2009

728
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:06,710
and 201

729
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,839
16 so now I'd like to call Paul Woodburn

730
00:37:09,839 --> 00:37:12,430
back to

731
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,950
testify Paul you're gonna sit

732
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:19,400
there I think just for clarification

733
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,400
purposes I think we were to talk about

734
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,079
close examination especially by the

735
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:27,119
public and so forth if this has stopped

736
00:37:27,119 --> 00:37:30,599
Mr bliss mean we're into for about 10

737
00:37:30,599 --> 00:37:34,800
hours of testimony for him and

738
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,839
examination of so toward doesn't make

739
00:37:38,839 --> 00:37:40,560
sense I think it makes sense for to

740
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,520
continue and then for the public to be

741
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,040
able to you know ask questions of all of

742
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,440
his witnesses as as the person seing at

743
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,160
that time because otherwise you know one

744
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,920
is the public could be the weather or

745
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,079
whatever isn't here but this evening for

746
00:37:55,079 --> 00:37:56,880
that cause examination so so I think it

747
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,160
would be better to make sure

748
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,240
procedurally we're on the same page that

749
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,640
in essence the public cause examination

750
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,079
but it's going to be more towards the

751
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,240
end of the case that as isue it is goes

752
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:07,160
public will have a chance to

753
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,400
cross-examine the bulk of the entirety

754
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,440
of the presentation at

755
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,480
the they also have the right to to uh

756
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,359
ask Mr Woodburn questions at the

757
00:38:18,359 --> 00:38:21,040
completion of his testimony um so we

758
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,000
can't stop them although content might

759
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,720
blur the line so we will just see

760
00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:28,200
happens when his testimony finishes but

761
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,560
you are welcome to and the public is

762
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,640
welcome to as well which other than the

763
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,000
public was is consistent with way we

764
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:36,640
handled the earlier testimony on the

765
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,870
first

766
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,760
hearing so Mr Woodburn can you um

767
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:44,319
restate your name uh and address for the

768
00:38:44,319 --> 00:38:47,000
record please sure for the uh record my

769
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,640
name is Paul Woodburn and I'm a

770
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:50,720
professional

771
00:38:50,720 --> 00:38:53,960
engineer and uh senior director for

772
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,040
Atwell engineering and address is is

773
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:14,910
11721 Woodmore Road in Mitchellville

774
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,670
Maryland

775
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,599
everybody I think it would be good just

776
00:39:21,599 --> 00:39:24,079
to make sure we're all on the same page

777
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:25,960
if you wouldn't mind Mr susman you mind

778
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,280
swearing said again I think the proper

779
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:29,640
procedure is just to remind him that

780
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,280
he's already been sworn in and recognize

781
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:33,000
that

782
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,800
fact I believe the proper procedure is

783
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,359
to just have him recognize that he's

784
00:39:38,359 --> 00:39:40,640
already been sworn

785
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,920
in you don't have to raise your hand to

786
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,960
be sworn in there's no form for being

787
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,319
sworn in he's already

788
00:39:48,319 --> 00:39:51,599
testified you swear or affirm under the

789
00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:53,680
penalty of perjury that the testimony

790
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,800
that you are about to give testimony

791
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,160
evidence your about to give be the truth

792
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,119
the whole truth nothing but the truth I

793
00:40:00,119 --> 00:40:01,960
do thank

794
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:05,599
you so Mr Woodburn um when you submitted

795
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,240
the rod and real applications for the

796
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:10,040
site plan review um what were the fee

797
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,000
amounts that you paid when you submitted

798
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,319
those

799
00:40:13,319 --> 00:40:16,319
applications uh the fee amounts I think

800
00:40:16,319 --> 00:40:17,720
you showed them on the screen earlier

801
00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:18,920
were

802
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,720
$5,400 for each site plan plus I think

803
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:25,920
we paid a $250 base application fee as

804
00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:39,270
well

805
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,240
and I'm showing you what will be

806
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:43,640
identified for the record is exhibit

807
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,000
53 um and ask you to confirm that those

808
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,280
are copies of the checks that you

809
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,470
submitted with the

810
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:55,280
applications with the exception I might

811
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,000
point out for the record that we've uh

812
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,720
blacked out the account

813
00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:03,520
numbers we blacked out the redacted the

814
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,470
account

815
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,480
numbers I offer that is exhibit

816
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,160
50 and how many of those are there

817
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:25,230
should be

818
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:28,870
fine

819
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,160
sep checks is one for 5400 for each of

820
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:44,630
is

821
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,960
$250 Mr Woodburn had you filed

822
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:49,520
applications for projects that involve

823
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:50,760
sight plan

824
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,480
review um to the town of chesp beach

825
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,240
before

826
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:57,640
yes and uh were you involved in the

827
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,440
applications filed for the rod and reel

828
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,560
project at the resort and for Harbor

829
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:05,599
Vista South projects in 2016 I

830
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:08,359
was and are you familiar with the site

831
00:42:08,359 --> 00:42:11,400
plan approval process in chese Beach

832
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:13,920
yes have you ever had to file a separate

833
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:15,960
application for site plan review besides

834
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,079
the applications using the zoning permit

835
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:21,030
form

836
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,559
no have you ever had to make a separate

837
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:26,200
request the schedule the review of and

838
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:27,400
hearings by the Planning and Zoning

839
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,839
commission to have those applications

840
00:42:29,839 --> 00:42:33,990
heard by the commission I'm

841
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:38,000
not after the February 5th 2021 email

842
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,200
from the zoning administrator Mr jaub

843
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,200
act have you received any communication

844
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,319
from the zoning administrator the

845
00:42:45,319 --> 00:42:47,240
Planning and Zoning commission or any

846
00:42:47,240 --> 00:42:49,960
other Town official to review process or

847
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:51,680
schedule hearings for any of the five

848
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:54,000
site plan applications that you filed on

849
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,880
January 29th of 2021 after the email the

850
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,870
fifth you said I have

851
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:06,800
not your experience in the town um of

852
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,359
ches b beach what is the role of the

853
00:43:08,359 --> 00:43:09,680
Planning and Zoning commission during

854
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:11,720
site plan

855
00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:14,559
review I did not hear the question I

856
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:17,200
said in his experience he's already

857
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,040
testified that he's has his experience

858
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:20,400
doing these site plan reviews before

859
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,760
this town what is the role of the

860
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,119
Planning and Zoning commission during

861
00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:34,030
site plan review

862
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,079
this point he's uh asking for an expert

863
00:43:36,079 --> 00:43:39,160
opinion okay and if he's talking about

864
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,760
his experience uh that that is

865
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:43,520
definitely going to an expert opinion he

866
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,720
hasn't been qualified as an expert it's

867
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:47,440
not an opinion I'm just having him

868
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:49,680
testify what the commission's role was

869
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,040
during the

870
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,440
process clearly was expressing an

871
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,160
opinion I don't think that's uh

872
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:58,640
expressing his opinion I think that's

873
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:01,559
expressing his experience based upon his

874
00:44:01,559 --> 00:44:06,390
experience which is different

875
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,309
from R

876
00:44:10,319 --> 00:44:12,160
continue

877
00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:15,079
okay uh in my experience and I've

878
00:44:15,079 --> 00:44:17,559
prepared and processed hundreds of site

879
00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:20,280
plans not only in Calver County and

880
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,480
chese Beach but in neighboring counties

881
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:26,920
and States um the Planning and Zoning

882
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,920
administrator in ches Peake Beach

883
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:31,839
through in my experience of numerous

884
00:44:31,839 --> 00:44:35,520
site plans is to review the site plan

885
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,559
against the ordinances and laws of the

886
00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:41,559
Town um and to make recommendations not

887
00:44:41,559 --> 00:44:43,280
only to the applicant but to the

888
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:45,079
Planning Commission who would ultimately

889
00:44:45,079 --> 00:44:47,680
review the site plan the zoning

890
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,040
administrator would review it for

891
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,640
dimensional standards just a few

892
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,400
examples would be parking requirements

893
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,240
height requirements set back

894
00:44:56,240 --> 00:45:00,040
requirements Landscaping requirements

895
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:03,000
Etc so I had asked what the role of the

896
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,119
commission was so you've just explained

897
00:45:05,119 --> 00:45:06,839
what the zoning administrator did does

898
00:45:06,839 --> 00:45:08,520
in that process but what is the Planning

899
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,440
and Zoning commission's role in doing

900
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,240
site plan review you

901
00:45:13,240 --> 00:45:15,800
objection in his experience in your

902
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,640
experience in my experience the Planning

903
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:20,839
Commission would review the

904
00:45:20,839 --> 00:45:25,160
recommendations of the um planning or

905
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:26,440
zoning admin

906
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,280
ministrator um and hear testimony from

907
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:35,040
the applicant and the public and with that information they would vote uh

908
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,599
for um action on the site plan approval

909
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:42,750
disapproval or approval with

910
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:45,720
conditions okay and I believe you said

911
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,359
it but you might not have given a number

912
00:45:48,359 --> 00:45:49,640
you know can you Hazard to guess how

913
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:51,160
many site plans you've submitted on

914
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:53,760
behalf of clients in your

915
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:59,870
career hundreds okay

916
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,040
so in your experience were any of the

917
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:04,200
site plan applications and and the

918
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,400
projects they proposed by the Roden reel

919
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:10,119
in their January 29th 2021 applications

920
00:46:10,119 --> 00:46:12,079
particularly novel or

921
00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:14,720
complex

922
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:17,680
no did any of them raise difficult

923
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:20,359
issues that needed to be

924
00:46:20,359 --> 00:46:24,200
resolved um I don't believe so uh we did

925
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,400
have a pre um

926
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,319
application um discussion with the Town

927
00:46:31,319 --> 00:46:34,160
Administrator which is common um just to

928
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,000
talk about what the proposal is um how

929
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,880
we're heading you know things that uh

930
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,200
might uh come out you know or be seen to

931
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:46,480
say Hey you know you need to look out

932
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:49,359
for this and one thing that came up I do

933
00:46:49,359 --> 00:46:51,359
recall was

934
00:46:51,359 --> 00:46:54,960
um uh the use of the existing storm

935
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:56,520
waterer management

936
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,000
um around the

937
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,079
harbor I'm specifically talking about

938
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:02,119
Harbor Vista North Harbor Vista South

939
00:47:02,119 --> 00:47:04,520
Harbor Vista West there's a lot of

940
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,760
history with the properties but in

941
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:12,520
essence um the the marina um was

942
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,960
redeveloped um and it started with Dave

943
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,400
Sison back in the early 2000s and it was

944
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,559
built and rebuilt um by the donovans the

945
00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:24,800
marina and with that um they installed

946
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,440
storm water manage

947
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,800
and um buffer yard requirements for

948
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,480
critical area around the marina and

949
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,000
these areas were intended to um not only

950
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,240
provide stormw management and buffer

951
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:41,280
landscape buffer and and uh Green Space

952
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,079
buffer for the marina but for the future

953
00:47:44,079 --> 00:47:46,240
development so it was in place and

954
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,359
already built and there was some

955
00:47:48,359 --> 00:47:51,160
discussion as if that storm water

956
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:52,720
management would still meet the

957
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:55,000
requirements of the new like storm

958
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,559
management regulation ations had changed

959
00:47:56,559 --> 00:47:59,119
over the years so we never got that far

960
00:47:59,119 --> 00:48:00,839
because we didn't get a review but that

961
00:48:00,839 --> 00:48:04,880
was a discussion point and then uh Mr

962
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:06,720
jabak who was the zoning administrator

963
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,440
at the time brought up um the uh SE or

964
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,200
uh I should say sea level rise uh which

965
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,880
now um has come out but at the time it

966
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,960
was just a

967
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,119
uh more of a proposal of information

968
00:48:24,119 --> 00:48:25,839
that was being provided but it was was n

969
00:48:25,839 --> 00:48:28,880
a regulation it wasn't issued as a law

970
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,760
or an ordinance or anything um but he

971
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:33,000
brought it to our attention and he

972
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,000
wasn't sure how that could may or may

973
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,599
not impact the projects so those two

974
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,240
things came up uh but again we didn't

975
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:43,079
get a review so I don't know how they

976
00:48:43,079 --> 00:48:46,349
would have turned

977
00:48:46,359 --> 00:48:48,880
out in your previous testimony you had

978
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,160
identified the projects by names uh

979
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,119
Harbor Vista South Harbor Vista North

980
00:48:53,119 --> 00:48:56,400
Harbor Vista West Home Place and stin it

981
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,640
please MH um can you describe the

982
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,839
location of Harbor Vista

983
00:49:01,839 --> 00:49:05,839
South so Harbor Vista South uh is on

984
00:49:05,839 --> 00:49:09,960
Harbor Road at the intersection um or

985
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,359
the access point to rod and reel at the

986
00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:15,319
light on the south side of the bridge

987
00:49:15,319 --> 00:49:17,720
and it would be on the right side as you

988
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,400
go over the bridge so existing parking

989
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,559
lot at

990
00:49:22,559 --> 00:49:26,160
currently Harbor you me go each one yeah

991
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,559
the for these three okay so Harbor Vista

992
00:49:29,559 --> 00:49:34,640
West uh would be the the center

993
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:36,839
Arrow you can if you can see that if

994
00:49:36,839 --> 00:49:39,839
nobody's color blind to the right um of

995
00:49:39,839 --> 00:49:41,079
the screen

996
00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:43,559
center which would be back by The Dredge

997
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:46,880
spoil site or I guess south of the um

998
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:47,920
rental

999
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,799
units and then Harbor Vista North is the

1000
00:49:50,799 --> 00:49:53,000
small parking lot at the bottom of the

1001
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,880
page on the screen which is on Gordon to

1002
00:49:55,880 --> 00:50:04,109
Avenue right behind the water

1003
00:50:04,119 --> 00:50:06,119
park can you

1004
00:50:06,119 --> 00:50:08,520
describe the location of stennet place

1005
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:12,119
please Gordon stennet uh is North I'm

1006
00:50:12,119 --> 00:50:17,640
yeah north side of town C Street and 261

1007
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:19,160
it's the two

1008
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:21,839
green football field looking areas on

1009
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:24,440
the screen there

1010
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,510
arrows

1011
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:31,079
home place can you describe the location

1012
00:50:31,079 --> 00:50:35,160
home place as off of Cox Road um

1013
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,640
western side of ches beake beach just

1014
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:44,750
off of Route

1015
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:47,920
260 okay

1016
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,839
so let's go back to this one and just

1017
00:50:50,839 --> 00:50:52,359
have it up so that you can see what

1018
00:50:52,359 --> 00:50:54,240
we're talking about as I have Mr

1019
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:57,920
Woodburn describe each of these projects

1020
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,799
um can you describe the Harbor Vista

1021
00:51:00,799 --> 00:51:05,319
South projects you know its units the parking locations the access things

1022
00:51:05,319 --> 00:51:08,240
like that you have a site plan too you

1023
00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:10,200
put up there be easier uh no I don't

1024
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:14,200
have okay that but I

1025
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,000
do at this

1026
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,400
point wish to offer we already have

1027
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,880
exhibit five in the record which are all

1028
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,319
the site

1029
00:51:27,319 --> 00:51:29,799
applications but they're in digital

1030
00:51:29,799 --> 00:51:32,520
form I had Paul prepare them in paper

1031
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,040
form and I could hand those out and that

1032
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,280
way it would be a lot easier I think for

1033
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,640
you to have them but I also don't want

1034
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,760
to duplicate exhibits but if if you

1035
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,200
would like the paper versions so that

1036
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400
each of you can and Mr pounds can have

1037
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,160
them too I've got them

1038
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:54,349
here already in

1039
00:51:54,359 --> 00:52:11,309
evidence

1040
00:52:11,319 --> 00:52:12,359
did

1041
00:52:12,359 --> 00:52:15,960
you PA did you do these how many of did

1042
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:24,270
you do did just four months

1043
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:26,640
ago

1044
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:47,030
why is this one big and

1045
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:54,230
[Music]

1046
00:52:54,240 --> 00:53:16,069
small

1047
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:18,240
maybe suggest five minutes uh uh yeah

1048
00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:19,760
that is a good point uh let's take five

1049
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:24,150
while you do this thank

1050
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:52,460
you

1051
00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:54,160
[Music]

1052
00:53:54,160 --> 00:54:11,910
for

1053
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,440
yes you think an hour and 10 is going to

1054
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:15,599
be enough for you to get to the end of

1055
00:54:15,599 --> 00:54:18,640
your presentation

1056
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:24,069
no well I'm going to

1057
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:28,040
try but I guess is

1058
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:29,880
cross-examination okay yes that'll be

1059
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:34,150
another

1060
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:45,109
thing time you

1061
00:54:45,119 --> 00:54:54,069
guys yeah I'm just saying if we maybe we give

1062
00:54:54,079 --> 00:55:57,430
Mr

1063
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,640
all right uh everybody's back we will uh

1064
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,039
resume please continue I apologize I

1065
00:56:02,039 --> 00:56:04,119
thought we had a copy for each of you

1066
00:56:04,119 --> 00:56:06,440
what we have is two two sets of paper

1067
00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,000
one for two sets so what I'd like to do

1068
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:12,079
is just give the board one paper set and

1069
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:14,280
give Mr pounds the other just so he can

1070
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:20,069
have them okay

1071
00:56:20,079 --> 00:56:22,440
but we have these in digital form the

1072
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:32,990
full contents this is for reference only

1073
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:36,039
I don't think so um the only thing is we

1074
00:56:36,039 --> 00:56:38,039
want to if if whatever would help

1075
00:56:38,039 --> 00:56:40,920
understanding the testimony today but

1076
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:49,390
um we'll leave that to you to to

1077
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:53,870
say

1078
00:56:53,880 --> 00:57:07,470
live

1079
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,599
so Mr Woodburn first just generally

1080
00:57:09,599 --> 00:57:11,680
describe what Harbor Vista South project

1081
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:12,680
is and what

1082
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:18,440
it so Harbor Vista South is a proposed

1083
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,440
condominium uh

1084
00:57:20,440 --> 00:57:22,680
development um it was originally

1085
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:25,520
approved in I believe in 200

1086
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:27,920
16 and again it's located at the

1087
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,240
intersection Harbor Road of the top

1088
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:36,280
Arrow condominium project of 59 units

1089
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,280
um in accessed off a Harbor Road

1090
00:57:39,280 --> 00:57:42,760
directly across from the library um

1091
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,559
building uh parking consisted of

1092
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:48,559
primarily underneath of the

1093
00:57:48,559 --> 00:57:50,799
building um there was some surface

1094
00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:53,480
parking along um

1095
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,839
260 one

1096
00:57:57,839 --> 00:58:00,880
um of course access to the marina the

1097
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:05,200
front of the the property there um is uh

1098
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,599
boat slips so you would access um

1099
00:58:08,599 --> 00:58:11,520
vehicular off for Harbor Vista but

1100
00:58:11,520 --> 00:58:15,359
pedestrian access through uh the rear

1101
00:58:15,359 --> 00:58:18,440
which also has pedestrian access under

1102
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:20,280
the bridge over to the rod and reil so

1103
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,640
there was a circular access almost

1104
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:24,119
through the intersection to the rod and

1105
00:58:24,119 --> 00:58:25,400
reil back to

1106
00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:27,799
Vista back in

1107
00:58:27,799 --> 00:58:30,799
2016 was originally approved the parking

1108
00:58:30,799 --> 00:58:33,240
lot actually before that it was uh

1109
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,520
constructed and

1110
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,039
built um as you can see here and has

1111
00:58:38,039 --> 00:58:40,680
parking for the marina

1112
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,480
currently

1113
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,160
so go to the next slide

1114
00:58:46,160 --> 00:58:49,480
here and what I'm showing you is from

1115
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:51,799
your site plan for Harbor Vista South

1116
00:58:51,799 --> 00:58:53,680
which is exhibit 5 and on the screen

1117
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,119
we're looking at the center of the site

1118
00:58:56,119 --> 00:58:58,160
plan showing the building located on the

1119
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:59,799
parcel

1120
00:58:59,799 --> 00:59:02,240
right

1121
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:05,520
um so you've already kind of testified

1122
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:06,960
that that's the orientation to the

1123
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:11,359
streets so that shows them I didn't

1124
00:59:11,359 --> 00:59:13,039
bring it up fast enough but you started

1125
00:59:13,039 --> 00:59:14,039
talking about

1126
00:59:14,039 --> 00:59:17,150
it

1127
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:20,359
um so is this already a separate and

1128
00:59:20,359 --> 00:59:23,039
subdivided buildable parcel it is it's a

1129
00:59:23,039 --> 00:59:25,520
ploted parcel it's parcel

1130
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,920
shows on this it's plat book

1131
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,839
ab4 plat

1132
00:59:30,839 --> 00:59:33,870
293

1133
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:38,319
okay and on the next slide I'm showing

1134
00:59:38,319 --> 00:59:42,440
you the general notes on your sheet too

1135
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,119
and we're going to go over some of these

1136
00:59:44,119 --> 00:59:46,960
for each of the projects um as a means

1137
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:50,160
of describing some of the basics um but

1138
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,039
important is the idea that it shows the

1139
00:59:52,039 --> 00:59:55,079
basic zoning compli ordinance compliance

1140
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:58,440
requirements so the general notes

1141
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,119
typically will well actually I'll ask Mr

1142
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:02,359
Woodburn to

1143
01:00:02,359 --> 01:00:05,640
testify Mr Woodburn when you put um the

1144
01:00:05,640 --> 01:00:09,000
general notes on a site plan what are

1145
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,160
they designed to

1146
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:14,160
achieve so in the zoning ordinance there

1147
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,960
is uh what we call dimensional standards

1148
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,359
and general zoning standards for

1149
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:22,720
density um property information and we

1150
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,079
basically summarize this and General

1151
01:00:25,079 --> 01:00:28,920
notes to outline what the required

1152
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:31,240
density would be what the required

1153
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,319
parking ratio would be U what the

1154
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:38,280
required bicycle um rack requirements

1155
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:40,760
would be like how many bicycles loading

1156
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,599
space

1157
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:44,920
requirements as you can see here so we

1158
01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:47,400
would we would put down what's required

1159
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,680
by the zoning and then we would put down

1160
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:51,599
what's provided on the site

1161
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:54,280
plan so it's more of a summary of what

1162
01:00:54,280 --> 01:00:55,160
actually

1163
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,960
designed on the site plan okay and so

1164
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,960
this is just showing your first 11 notes

1165
01:00:59,960 --> 01:01:04,710
but the notes are longer than this

1166
01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:06,839
correct and in this instance of course

1167
01:01:06,839 --> 01:01:08,440
we're in the critical area because

1168
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,280
they're category ones and it just

1169
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:15,559
critical area notes as well so using

1170
01:01:15,559 --> 01:01:18,599
this show it's demonstrating how the

1171
01:01:18,599 --> 01:01:20,599
proposed Harbor Vista South project

1172
01:01:20,599 --> 01:01:22,640
would comply with the zoning ordinance

1173
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:24,760
at the time you filed it which was back

1174
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:30,109
in January of 2021 correct that's

1175
01:01:30,119 --> 01:01:32,480
correct would the Harbor Vista South

1176
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:34,440
project as proposed in the site plan

1177
01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:37,079
that was filed and included in exhibit

1178
01:01:37,079 --> 01:01:39,960
five comply with the current zoning

1179
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:42,160
ordinance um in my read of the current

1180
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,200
zoning ordinance it would not comply

1181
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,480
okay and in your general notes you

1182
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,000
identified that the property was in the

1183
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,160
maritime Zone that's

1184
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:56,039
correct it also describes the property

1185
01:01:56,039 --> 01:01:57,960
as being located in the bonus density

1186
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,920
overlay District what's the bonus

1187
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:05,599
density overlay District so under the prior zoning there was a provision

1188
01:02:05,599 --> 01:02:06,559
for

1189
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:09,359
certain um zoning districts that that

1190
01:02:09,359 --> 01:02:11,200
you could have a bonus

1191
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,760
density um and what that achieved was

1192
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,480
more under the smart growth initiative

1193
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,599
it allowed a higher density um within a

1194
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:23,359
smaller footprint so

1195
01:02:23,359 --> 01:02:26,319
um you wouldn't have sprawl basically

1196
01:02:26,319 --> 01:02:30,319
you build up instead of out

1197
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:33,160
yeah in developed Town centers in

1198
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:39,950
certain yeah zones and be a town center

1199
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:42,160
correct the proposed building for Harbor

1200
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:43,480
Vista South was a multif family

1201
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:45,359
residential structure correct that's

1202
01:02:45,359 --> 01:02:47,359
correct and was that allowed in the

1203
01:02:47,359 --> 01:02:49,000
maritime Zone at the time you filed the

1204
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,109
application it

1205
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:55,160
was and you include the General uh

1206
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,240
critical area calculations in your notes

1207
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,039
as well we

1208
01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:02,470
did

1209
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,000
um and those calculations are required

1210
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:06,880
to show what the required mitigation is

1211
01:03:06,880 --> 01:03:08,319
for a project in the critical area

1212
01:03:08,319 --> 01:03:11,430
correct that's

1213
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:13,960
correct was any of the required critical

1214
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:16,680
area mitigation for Harbor Vista South

1215
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:17,920
to be met

1216
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:23,240
offsite yes you describe that so we had

1217
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,559
done and

1218
01:03:25,559 --> 01:03:29,400
2006 the 2016 approval um we had

1219
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:34,079
proposed a um more of a comprehensive

1220
01:03:34,079 --> 01:03:37,760
mitigation approach for the rod and reel

1221
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:43,000
itself and for Harbor Vista South um the

1222
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:46,440
shopping center where Roland's Market is

1223
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,319
um had no stormw Management in place it

1224
01:03:49,319 --> 01:03:51,319
was built in the 80s I believe maybe

1225
01:03:51,319 --> 01:03:53,839
even earlier so storm waterer management

1226
01:03:53,839 --> 01:03:56,880
wasn't acquired at the time um so we

1227
01:03:56,880 --> 01:03:59,359
proposed to do a storm waterer

1228
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:02,839
Management Facility for the entire um

1229
01:04:02,839 --> 01:04:05,520
parking lot um so we captured the water

1230
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:08,160
off of the parking lot um treated the

1231
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,400
water in a underground storm water

1232
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:14,119
filter system um which if you're

1233
01:04:14,119 --> 01:04:16,279
interested in it uh you can see it it's

1234
01:04:16,279 --> 01:04:18,000
at the corner of the garage when you

1235
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,079
make your left into the to the rod and

1236
01:04:20,079 --> 01:04:22,720
reel um and that filtering system takes

1237
01:04:22,720 --> 01:04:24,839
care of the existing parking lot

1238
01:04:24,839 --> 01:04:27,319
which was a partial offset mitigation

1239
01:04:27,319 --> 01:04:29,839
for the Harbor Vista South and the rod

1240
01:04:29,839 --> 01:04:32,829
and reel

1241
01:04:32,839 --> 01:04:35,400
projects it's treated about acre and a

1242
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:38,520
half I believe of uh the parking lot for

1243
01:04:38,520 --> 01:04:40,880
the Harbor Vista South so the mitigation

1244
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:42,559
was being met critical area mitigation

1245
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:45,880
was being met by providing storm Wonder

1246
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:47,839
management for other people's properties

1247
01:04:47,839 --> 01:04:51,160
that the town wanted to get properly

1248
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,640
treated is that correct um partly okay

1249
01:04:54,640 --> 01:04:57,119
we did mitigation onsite as well a lot

1250
01:04:57,119 --> 01:04:59,799
of plantings and and onsite but yes

1251
01:04:59,799 --> 01:05:03,319
partly yes how much of the credit was to

1252
01:05:03,319 --> 01:05:04,920
be applied to the Harbor Vista Southside

1253
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:07,079
plan if you can recall I know it was an

1254
01:05:07,079 --> 01:05:10,559
acre and a half um which was like

1255
01:05:10,559 --> 01:05:14,200
63,000 plus or minus square feet of

1256
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:16,440
mitigation how much was to go to Harbor

1257
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,359
Vista South though because Harbor Vista

1258
01:05:18,359 --> 01:05:22,799
much that's have okay

1259
01:05:22,799 --> 01:05:25,400
yep so portion of the critical area

1260
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,240
mitigation for the harbor Vis to South

1261
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:29,760
project has already been completed it

1262
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:41,029
has it's been built and constructed and

1263
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:43,760
operational uh you were present for the

1264
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:45,920
presentation where I provided the board

1265
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,240
with the comprehensive plan um that was

1266
01:05:49,240 --> 01:05:52,880
adopted by the Town Council in April of

1267
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,520
2022 um and the implementing ordinances

1268
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:57,799
that were subsequently filed and still

1269
01:05:57,799 --> 01:05:59,920
being new comprehensive plan new

1270
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:01,599
comprehensive plan and the implementing

1271
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:04,599
ordinance yes so under the comprehensive

1272
01:06:04,599 --> 01:06:06,880
plan and implementing ordinances that

1273
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:10,319
have been adopted so far following the

1274
01:06:10,319 --> 01:06:13,240
2022 comprehensive plan would the rod

1275
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:16,200
and reel's Harbor Vista South project be

1276
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,599
compliant with those ordinances

1277
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:22,880
no um what zone is in the harbor Vista

1278
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:25,520
South property

1279
01:06:25,520 --> 01:06:27,920
um what what zone is it in the current

1280
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,000
plan the new the new plan I believe it's

1281
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,319
the south is

1282
01:06:33,319 --> 01:06:37,640
MC Maritime commercial yeah can you

1283
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:39,520
build a multif family dwelling in an MC

1284
01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:45,549
Maritime commercial now no

1285
01:06:45,559 --> 01:06:48,440
okay what was the previous height limit

1286
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,279
in the maritime District uh it was 70

1287
01:06:52,279 --> 01:06:54,640
feet and the proposed Building height of

1288
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:57,279
Harbor Vista South was what

1289
01:06:57,279 --> 01:07:01,039
582 and couple inches I think it was 582

1290
01:07:01,039 --> 01:07:05,589
58 foot 2 inches pH

1291
01:07:05,599 --> 01:07:08,839
call shows on the site

1292
01:07:08,839 --> 01:07:12,559
plan um so what's the maximum height in

1293
01:07:12,559 --> 01:07:19,870
the MC Maritime commercial now 35

1294
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,720
feet so the Harbor Vista South project

1295
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:24,960
as proposed could have been built

1296
01:07:24,960 --> 01:07:26,960
according to the laws in effect when the

1297
01:07:26,960 --> 01:07:29,680
applications were filed in January 2021

1298
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:31,359
but can no longer under the current

1299
01:07:31,359 --> 01:07:36,549
zoning that's

1300
01:07:36,559 --> 01:07:39,119
correct was the site plan you submitted

1301
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:43,000
in January 20121 for Harbor Vista South

1302
01:07:43,000 --> 01:07:45,359
substantially similar to the to plans

1303
01:07:45,359 --> 01:07:46,960
that you had previously submitted to the

1304
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:48,599
commission for this

1305
01:07:48,599 --> 01:07:52,920
property almost identical in footprint

1306
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:55,760
yes

1307
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,520
you restate that please into the

1308
01:07:57,520 --> 01:07:59,960
microphone me or him it was almost

1309
01:07:59,960 --> 01:08:01,279
identical in

1310
01:08:01,279 --> 01:08:03,599
footprint thank

1311
01:08:03,599 --> 01:08:06,279
you and what stage of approval process

1312
01:08:06,279 --> 01:08:07,559
had that

1313
01:08:07,559 --> 01:08:11,039
received previously it was originally in

1314
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:13,799
2016 preliminary site plan preliminary

1315
01:08:13,799 --> 01:08:22,829
site plan approval that's

1316
01:08:22,839 --> 01:08:28,990
correct

1317
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,359
so now I'm submitting exhibit 54 which

1318
01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:33,799
are the minutes of the February 10th

1319
01:08:33,799 --> 01:08:36,199
2016 meeting of the Planning and Zoning

1320
01:08:36,199 --> 01:08:38,359
commission that shows the original

1321
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:41,400
approval of the preliminary site

1322
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:52,789
plan and that would be exhibit

1323
01:08:52,799 --> 01:09:19,669
54

1324
01:09:19,679 --> 01:09:21,480
I'm showing you what's been marked for

1325
01:09:21,480 --> 01:09:25,040
identification as exhibit 5 five Mr

1326
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:29,000
Woodburn and ask you to confir confirm

1327
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,600
that this is page two of the architect

1328
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:33,640
site plan document and the February 9th

1329
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,080
2016 memo of the zoning administrator on

1330
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:39,199
the project simply to show how similar

1331
01:09:39,199 --> 01:09:41,640
the project was to the one that was

1332
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:43,880
submitted in January 29th

1333
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,759
2021 I mess on Architects I'm I'm this

1334
01:09:47,759 --> 01:09:50,319
is site plan that's your site plan

1335
01:09:50,319 --> 01:09:52,359
correct and this is the architect site

1336
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:55,840
plan okay and then next is the

1337
01:09:55,840 --> 01:09:59,360
memorandum of the zoning administrator

1338
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:02,600
correct yes it's

1339
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:05,760
correct these are all for the 2016

1340
01:10:05,760 --> 01:10:08,239
preliminary plan site all for that is

1341
01:10:08,239 --> 01:10:21,070
exhibit

1342
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:25,640
55 BL that exhibit in clud the uh staff

1343
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:33,630
memorandum

1344
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:42,669
yes that was that was dated February 9th

1345
01:10:42,679 --> 01:10:50,669
2016 just to show you an

1346
01:10:50,679 --> 01:10:52,320
overhead

1347
01:10:52,320 --> 01:10:56,520
oh okay so so this is an overhead view

1348
01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:59,000
that was included in exhibit 55 which as

1349
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,040
you can see has a similar configuration

1350
01:11:02,040 --> 01:11:04,159
to the one we saw in the Roden reels

1351
01:11:04,159 --> 01:11:05,880
application for Harbor Vista South that

1352
01:11:05,880 --> 01:11:10,400
was filed in January 29 21 so 16 and 20

1353
01:11:10,400 --> 01:11:12,199
21 projects

1354
01:11:12,199 --> 01:11:17,950
were very very

1355
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,270
similar next

1356
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,840
I'll offer the minutes of the Planning

1357
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:29,000
and Zoning commission dated February 8th

1358
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,719
2017

1359
01:11:31,719 --> 01:11:34,440
um as exhibit excuse me Mr blit before

1360
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:38,040
you go there do we have these uh rawing

1361
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:41,040
this on the screen now it should be a

1362
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:42,120
part

1363
01:11:42,120 --> 01:11:45,440
of your package it's second page of

1364
01:11:45,440 --> 01:11:52,550
exhibit

1365
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:54,320
55

1366
01:11:54,320 --> 01:11:57,000
oh I don't want to jump too far ahead so

1367
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:04,070
now I'm

1368
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:06,360
offering missing the side information

1369
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:11,750
it's just the image

1370
01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:22,470
itself it's

1371
01:12:22,480 --> 01:12:34,070
missing

1372
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,040
PDF these some of the Architects PDFs

1373
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:37,920
are in different layers and all kind of

1374
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,880
weird stuff happens so that was exhibit

1375
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:42,800
56 which is the

1376
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,840
minutes and as these minutes show the

1377
01:12:44,840 --> 01:12:46,400
preliminary site plan for the prior

1378
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:48,239
iteration of Harbor Vista project was

1379
01:12:48,239 --> 01:12:51,360
extended for an additional year so that

1380
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:57,070
it would expire on February

1381
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:59,960
2018 so Mr Woodburn were you aware that

1382
01:12:59,960 --> 01:13:01,600
the preliminary site plan approval had

1383
01:13:01,600 --> 01:13:05,000
been extended for one year in 2017 yes

1384
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:07,440
and was a subsequent extension request

1385
01:13:07,440 --> 01:13:12,159
made yes was that granted

1386
01:13:12,159 --> 01:13:17,110
no so as late as February of

1387
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,239
2018 the preliminary site plan for

1388
01:13:19,239 --> 01:13:21,120
Harbor Vista South had been valid but

1389
01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:27,030
had since lapsed correct that's correct

1390
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:36,590
so let's turn to the Harbor Vista West

1391
01:13:36,600 --> 01:13:38,719
project so why don't you start off

1392
01:13:38,719 --> 01:13:40,560
generally describing what Harbor Vista

1393
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,320
West project proposed in its unit count

1394
01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:46,000
and what it was parking locations where

1395
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,440
it's access I PL a better one to discuss

1396
01:13:48,440 --> 01:13:50,679
all that honestly than this there you go

1397
01:13:50,679 --> 01:13:51,560
so

1398
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:55,400
here's um shows you site plan sheet two

1399
01:13:55,400 --> 01:13:57,520
from the site

1400
01:13:57,520 --> 01:14:01,560
plan so um this plan is directed south

1401
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:03,960
to North on The View just so you can get

1402
01:14:03,960 --> 01:14:06,840
yourself oriented the right hand side

1403
01:14:06,840 --> 01:14:08,639
where you see the north Arrow that's

1404
01:14:08,639 --> 01:14:11,560
water that's the actual boat slips if

1405
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,520
you're familiar with the area um just to

1406
01:14:14,520 --> 01:14:17,239
the left of the north arrow is the

1407
01:14:17,239 --> 01:14:20,840
access road that would take you down to

1408
01:14:20,840 --> 01:14:23,400
the beginning of the Railway Trail the

1409
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,040
Boardwalk portion of the railro trail

1410
01:14:26,040 --> 01:14:29,040
the Shaded um I'd say more like a

1411
01:14:29,040 --> 01:14:32,560
sidewalk looking um that's the uh

1412
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:34,360
stamped concrete portion of the

1413
01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,199
boardwalk Trail and then to the left of

1414
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:40,679
that where the red dots um are uh to the

1415
01:14:40,679 --> 01:14:43,560
left that's the proposed Harbor Vista

1416
01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,679
West um development uh the parking would

1417
01:14:47,679 --> 01:14:50,560
be on the bottom that surface parking

1418
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:52,199
and then the building would be generally

1419
01:14:52,199 --> 01:14:55,320
in the center with parking underneath we

1420
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:56,840
call Podium

1421
01:14:56,840 --> 01:15:00,320
parking um and to the left corner the

1422
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:02,159
triangular piece that's an existing

1423
01:15:02,159 --> 01:15:04,480
storm waterer Management Facility that

1424
01:15:04,480 --> 01:15:06,760
again as I described earlier in a

1425
01:15:06,760 --> 01:15:08,320
testimony was

1426
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:10,520
installed uh with the original

1427
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:13,719
development by Dave sisen of the marina

1428
01:15:13,719 --> 01:15:15,480
uh for this future development it was

1429
01:15:15,480 --> 01:15:17,760
actually put in place for this

1430
01:15:17,760 --> 01:15:20,400
development uh and then on the north

1431
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:23,600
side of the site development uh is more

1432
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:24,719
surface

1433
01:15:24,719 --> 01:15:27,560
parking how many units was Harbor Vista

1434
01:15:27,560 --> 01:15:35,229
West supposed to be I believe this is 60

1435
01:15:35,239 --> 01:15:39,719
units next I'm unit showing you from

1436
01:15:39,719 --> 01:15:42,239
exhibit 5 the general notes one through

1437
01:15:42,239 --> 01:15:49,830
11 on P two of your site

1438
01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:52,239
plan so would the Harbor Vista West

1439
01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:54,120
project as proposed in the site plan

1440
01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:54,840
that's

1441
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,600
included in exhibit 5 and was submitted

1442
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:01,080
in January of 2021 would that uh comply

1443
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:02,920
with the current zoning ordinance it

1444
01:16:02,920 --> 01:16:07,030
would not comply with the current zoning

1445
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:09,159
ordinance in your general notes you

1446
01:16:09,159 --> 01:16:10,760
identify the property as being in the

1447
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:13,040
maritime Zone correct that's

1448
01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,080
correct and it's supposed to be a multif

1449
01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:17,320
family structure

1450
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:19,480
correct was that allowed in Maritime

1451
01:16:19,480 --> 01:16:22,239
Zone was yes already asked that for the

1452
01:16:22,239 --> 01:16:31,470
harbor Buist to

1453
01:16:31,480 --> 01:16:34,560
um so what what zone is the Harbor Vista

1454
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:38,360
West property located in now it's uh RC

1455
01:16:38,360 --> 01:16:40,480
which is resource

1456
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:42,639
conservation can you build a multif

1457
01:16:42,639 --> 01:16:43,840
family dwelling in a resource

1458
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,880
conservation zone

1459
01:16:46,880 --> 01:16:49,120
no what was the previous height limit in

1460
01:16:49,120 --> 01:16:52,159
the maritime District 70 feet and what's

1461
01:16:52,159 --> 01:16:54,560
the proposed height of Harbor Vista West

1462
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:56,840
35 feet under the curtain

1463
01:16:56,840 --> 01:16:59,159
zone no what is what was the proposed

1464
01:16:59,159 --> 01:17:02,120
height foot I believe it's 582 two two

1465
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:05,480
inches exactly as Harbor Vista South

1466
01:17:05,480 --> 01:17:08,440
same height as Harbor Vista South

1467
01:17:08,440 --> 01:17:10,920
correct and the new maximum height in

1468
01:17:10,920 --> 01:17:13,600
the MC Maritime commercial Zone adopted

1469
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:15,320
in

1470
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:17,600
2022 well we're in the resource

1471
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:19,560
conservation oh you're right resource

1472
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:26,910
conservation 35 feet so

1473
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:28,480
and the Roden reel gave the town an

1474
01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:30,800
easement across this property to

1475
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:32,600
accomodate the railway Trail correct

1476
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:34,159
that's

1477
01:17:34,159 --> 01:17:36,920
correct and the town built a water and

1478
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,080
sewer pipe under that easement to serve

1479
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:40,840
the eventual construction of Harbor

1480
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:44,159
Vista West sewer pipe water water was

1481
01:17:44,159 --> 01:17:47,440
built previously with the uh rental

1482
01:17:47,440 --> 01:17:50,719
units next door okay yes so they built a

1483
01:17:50,719 --> 01:17:53,679
sewer pipe right to serve the eventual

1484
01:17:53,679 --> 01:18:01,990
construction that's

1485
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:04,639
cor so now let's turn to Harbor Vista

1486
01:18:04,639 --> 01:18:06,719
North just to orient yourself where that

1487
01:18:06,719 --> 01:18:08,239
is that's that little

1488
01:18:08,239 --> 01:18:12,590
parcel at the end of the

1489
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:20,510
marina go to the sheet three of the site

1490
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:22,600
plan and wanted to give a general

1491
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,679
descript ion of the orientation of the

1492
01:18:24,679 --> 01:18:26,639
building and the access and its unit

1493
01:18:26,639 --> 01:18:28,600
counts and things like that sure so once

1494
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:30,719
again this uh is oriented

1495
01:18:30,719 --> 01:18:37,440
north um and this project it fronts on Gordon skinet

1496
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:41,679
Avenue um which if you go out to uh

1497
01:18:41,679 --> 01:18:44,120
kellums field uh there's a large parking

1498
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:47,560
lot on the top side of this sheet which

1499
01:18:47,560 --> 01:18:50,000
um is I think it's intended for boat

1500
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,360
storage I think that's he uses it but

1501
01:18:52,360 --> 01:18:53,679
during footall football games I know

1502
01:18:53,679 --> 01:18:56,760
everybody use it um the building sits in

1503
01:18:56,760 --> 01:18:59,400
the center of this sheet here just on

1504
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,679
the north side of the end of the water

1505
01:19:01,679 --> 01:19:04,000
the marina as you can see there's boat

1506
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:05,920
slips you can see the circles those are

1507
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:07,679
pilings for the boat

1508
01:19:07,679 --> 01:19:10,440
slips uh and then access to the site

1509
01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:13,639
would be off of Gordon Stant on both the

1510
01:19:13,639 --> 01:19:16,040
right side or east and the west side

1511
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:20,120
which is the left and as um Mr Blitz had

1512
01:19:20,120 --> 01:19:22,320
mentioned it's kind of hard to see but

1513
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:24,880
the diamond plated uh two lines on the

1514
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:27,760
left that's the railway trail that uh

1515
01:19:27,760 --> 01:19:30,280
the Donovan provided the EAS for for

1516
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:32,239
access to the railway

1517
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:34,960
Trail um the building itself I guess

1518
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:36,199
it's a little hard to see but it's a

1519
01:19:36,199 --> 01:19:39,840
u-shape there almost Center uh with

1520
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,600
parking again underneath uh at the first

1521
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,120
floor you would park underneath the

1522
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:46,639
second floor and then surface parking

1523
01:19:46,639 --> 01:19:51,390
along Gordon stened

1524
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:54,280
Avenue this project is located on parcel

1525
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:55,880
J of the

1526
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,400
plat it is on parcel J it's a

1527
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,800
condominium actually it's um unit one of

1528
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,000
partiel

1529
01:20:03,000 --> 01:20:06,400
J so it's already been ploted as a

1530
01:20:06,400 --> 01:20:08,000
identified as a developed lot

1531
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:14,510
developable

1532
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:17,560
lot so these are the general notes 1

1533
01:20:17,560 --> 01:20:21,229
through 11 for your site

1534
01:20:21,239 --> 01:20:25,910
plan or Harbor Vista

1535
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:29,229
West that's

1536
01:20:29,239 --> 01:20:32,800
correct nor oh I

1537
01:20:32,800 --> 01:20:35,199
apologize Harbor Vista North Harbor

1538
01:20:35,199 --> 01:20:38,440
Vista North so would Harbor Vista North

1539
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:39,960
as proposed in the site plan that you

1540
01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:41,760
provided in January 21st comply with the

1541
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:45,320
urrent zoning ordinance it would

1542
01:20:45,320 --> 01:20:47,960
not was it located in the maritime Zone

1543
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:51,199
we've already gone over that

1544
01:20:51,199 --> 01:20:55,679
yes the new zoning is MC Maritime

1545
01:20:55,679 --> 01:20:57,840
commercial the height of the proposed

1546
01:20:57,840 --> 01:20:59,199
building is

1547
01:20:59,199 --> 01:21:02,320
582 again 58 foot2

1548
01:21:02,320 --> 01:21:06,920
Ines um it's 23 units and would not be

1549
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:09,560
allowed in the MC Zone the new

1550
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:14,320
Zone um as proposed a 35 foot height

1551
01:21:14,320 --> 01:21:16,880
limit but in the prior Maritime Zone

1552
01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:18,639
District the height maximum height was

1553
01:21:18,639 --> 01:21:22,480
70 that's Shon not 11 yes 70 foot okay

1554
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:23,440
and

1555
01:21:23,440 --> 01:21:26,560
so as when you made the applications in

1556
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:28,840
January of 2021 they complied but they

1557
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:30,360
no longer comply with the current zoning

1558
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:33,390
correct that's

1559
01:21:33,400 --> 01:21:35,960
correct was there any prior work on the

1560
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:37,560
property where Harbor Vista West and

1561
01:21:37,560 --> 01:21:43,920
Harbor Vista North were located um that the January 2021 applications were

1562
01:21:43,920 --> 01:21:46,870
relying

1563
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:51,199
upon um yes what was that uh well we had

1564
01:21:51,199 --> 01:21:54,280
the sewer installed already U which we

1565
01:21:54,280 --> 01:21:57,280
spoke about and um storm waterer

1566
01:21:57,280 --> 01:21:59,199
management was already installed the

1567
01:21:59,199 --> 01:22:01,440
buffer yards were in put in place when

1568
01:22:01,440 --> 01:22:05,719
we um when the the uh Marine was built

1569
01:22:05,719 --> 01:22:07,760
the bulkheads were built and the Green

1570
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:09,639
Space around the bulad are built there's

1571
01:22:09,639 --> 01:22:11,719
a sand filter system along the entire

1572
01:22:11,719 --> 01:22:14,199
length of that which was designed

1573
01:22:14,199 --> 01:22:16,080
approve by not only the town and the

1574
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:17,800
county but the critic Larry commission

1575
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:19,360
to provide storm management for the

1576
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:22,920
entire development and then if you go

1577
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:25,320
way back U when that Marina was actually

1578
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:27,159
built for those you can remember there

1579
01:22:27,159 --> 01:22:29,760
was numerous um boat houses and I don't

1580
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,320
know if everybody remers those but those

1581
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:35,280
boat houses were taken down um

1582
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:38,880
along the um the slip area there was a

1583
01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:41,159
Goodyear Building Maintenance building

1584
01:22:41,159 --> 01:22:43,560
that was taken down there was quite a

1585
01:22:43,560 --> 01:22:47,440
bit of um old dilapidated impervious

1586
01:22:47,440 --> 01:22:50,040
area as we call it that was taken out as

1587
01:22:50,040 --> 01:22:53,120
part of the original project

1588
01:22:53,120 --> 01:22:56,560
um to uh provide storm management and

1589
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,080
critical area mitigation for these

1590
01:23:00,080 --> 01:23:02,400
developments so yeah quite a bit of work

1591
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:04,960
was done did that also include frag

1592
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:07,360
mighty's remediation there was frag

1593
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,560
mighty's remediation

1594
01:23:09,560 --> 01:23:11,600
yes and wasn't there also some

1595
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,239
adjustments to The Moorings and Pier

1596
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:15,840
piles part of the mitigation the entire

1597
01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:21,470
Marina was

1598
01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:31,910
veryone

1599
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,639
it's isn't it true that the ciens who

1600
01:23:35,639 --> 01:23:38,280
you referenced as being the prior

1601
01:23:38,280 --> 01:23:42,000
owners had done the title Wetlands

1602
01:23:42,000 --> 01:23:45,080
delineation for the Western Property

1603
01:23:45,080 --> 01:23:47,159
boundary because that had not previously

1604
01:23:47,159 --> 01:23:48,600
been mapped and that that was

1605
01:23:48,600 --> 01:23:51,080
transferred to the rod and reel talking

1606
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:54,360
about Harbor V West area yes yes and so

1607
01:23:54,360 --> 01:23:57,320
they obtain the private Wetland permit

1608
01:23:57,320 --> 01:24:01,159
which I'll read is 03 wp1

1609
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:04,000
155r and the core of army Engineers

1610
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:08,840
permit 2004 to facilitate that work

1611
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,360
that's correct and that was transferred

1612
01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,480
with the property to the rod and reel

1613
01:24:13,480 --> 01:24:15,840
for their projects that's correct

1614
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:17,480
because all these projects had really

1615
01:24:17,480 --> 01:24:19,360
been kind of designed by the sistens

1616
01:24:19,360 --> 01:24:23,480
they started with the sistens um

1617
01:24:23,480 --> 01:24:27,120
almost as they were proposed in the

1618
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:30,639
2021 application yes very

1619
01:24:30,639 --> 01:24:41,030
close that was as far back as

1620
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:43,600
2004 but the rod and reel did the

1621
01:24:43,600 --> 01:24:46,040
mitigation work correct not the systens

1622
01:24:46,040 --> 01:24:47,400
that's correct assistants have gotten

1623
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:50,320
the permits but the rodel actually um

1624
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:52,159
performed the work or their contractor

1625
01:24:52,159 --> 01:24:54,080
you obtained a zoning permit for that

1626
01:24:54,080 --> 01:24:56,830
work that's

1627
01:24:56,840 --> 01:24:59,760
correct and all this mitigation was

1628
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:01,880
going to be applied as credits to the

1629
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:04,360
January 29th 2021 applications for

1630
01:25:04,360 --> 01:25:06,679
Harbor Vista West and Harbor Vista North

1631
01:25:06,679 --> 01:25:10,600
projects as they were for the 2016

1632
01:25:10,600 --> 01:25:12,880
approvals and you know we had several

1633
01:25:12,880 --> 01:25:14,600
approvals on Harbor Vista North and

1634
01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:16,000
Harbor Vista South and they were

1635
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:17,719
credited for those and approve with

1636
01:25:17,719 --> 01:25:21,270
those

1637
01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:35,870
yes

1638
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:37,920
so I'm showing you the zoning permit the

1639
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:42,149
zoning

1640
01:25:42,159 --> 01:25:48,550
permit which you have in your exhibits I

1641
01:25:48,560 --> 01:25:51,199
mean oh no I haven't submitted that yet

1642
01:25:51,199 --> 01:26:03,590
exhibit 57

1643
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:21,189
ail

1644
01:26:21,199 --> 01:26:47,629
201

1645
01:26:47,639 --> 01:26:49,920
let's turn to the Senate Place

1646
01:26:49,920 --> 01:27:16,330
project there's

1647
01:27:16,340 --> 01:27:21,709
[Music]

1648
01:27:21,719 --> 01:27:24,280
let's for clarification this zoning

1649
01:27:24,280 --> 01:27:26,679
permit it says partiel J so this is the

1650
01:27:26,679 --> 01:27:29,840
permit for har for North

1651
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:34,199
right so the whole um property that

1652
01:27:34,199 --> 01:27:37,440
includes Harbor Vista North and Harbor

1653
01:27:37,440 --> 01:27:45,430
Vista West is partial J okay

1654
01:27:45,440 --> 01:27:49,040
yeah we're waiting for that Mr

1655
01:27:49,040 --> 01:27:53,080
Woodburn that permit was issued in 2011

1656
01:27:53,080 --> 01:28:00,550
do you recall whether it was

1657
01:28:00,560 --> 01:28:03,679
renewed The Marina the permit you just

1658
01:28:03,679 --> 01:28:21,030
showed yeah I I don't

1659
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:22,600
recall

1660
01:28:22,600 --> 01:28:34,709
[Music]

1661
01:28:34,719 --> 01:28:36,400
reminder we have about 30 minutes left

1662
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:50,990
before we're going to call it

1663
01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:57,199
so now we're getting to SED place I'm

1664
01:28:57,199 --> 01:28:58,960
just showing you the overhead view again

1665
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:02,840
just so you could mind where it is um

1666
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:05,400
now we'll go to the site

1667
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:10,550
plan

1668
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:13,639
um is shown on sheet two of the site

1669
01:29:13,639 --> 01:29:18,679
plan submitted on January 29th for State

1670
01:29:18,679 --> 01:29:20,920
Place

1671
01:29:20,920 --> 01:29:24,239
um can you give us a general description

1672
01:29:24,239 --> 01:29:26,960
the the orientation of this uh as you

1673
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:28,679
can see the top right North therea the

1674
01:29:28,679 --> 01:29:31,600
north is right so North Beach would be

1675
01:29:31,600 --> 01:29:34,400
to the right um top side of the the

1676
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:36,960
sheet Bas Side Road

1677
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:40,639
261 Center uh is 31st

1678
01:29:40,639 --> 01:29:43,679
Street and the properties that are owned

1679
01:29:43,679 --> 01:29:45,440
under the application are the left side

1680
01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:48,880
and the right side um and I know you're

1681
01:29:48,880 --> 01:29:50,560
all probably familiar they're two big

1682
01:29:50,560 --> 01:29:53,639
grass areas if you go by them

1683
01:29:53,639 --> 01:29:56,800
today um this

1684
01:29:56,800 --> 01:30:01,239
area um used to be hous or used to House

1685
01:30:01,239 --> 01:30:02,840
stet

1686
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:06,080
Restaurant um and it was a very low Ling

1687
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:08,000
area it

1688
01:30:08,000 --> 01:30:12,600
flooded all the time um before some vast

1689
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:14,719
improvements are made to this area

1690
01:30:14,719 --> 01:30:17,239
however for this plan here there's 11

1691
01:30:17,239 --> 01:30:18,320
townhouse

1692
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:22,119
units uh proposed that are accessed off

1693
01:30:22,119 --> 01:30:26,560
of um C Street right in front of

1694
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:30,520
Cate um garage

1695
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:35,430
units

1696
01:30:35,440 --> 01:30:38,199
uh okay fairly

1697
01:30:38,199 --> 01:30:40,320
simple town

1698
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:44,000
homes so I'm next I'm showing

1699
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:47,360
you from exhibit 5 the general notes one

1700
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,400
through nine on sheet two of your site

1701
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:53,560
plan and as show as you've seen with the

1702
01:30:53,560 --> 01:30:57,320
other uh projects I plan General

1703
01:30:57,320 --> 01:30:59,639
notes the proposed compliance with a

1704
01:30:59,639 --> 01:31:01,480
zoning ordinances at the time the

1705
01:31:01,480 --> 01:31:03,000
applications were

1706
01:31:03,000 --> 01:31:05,360
filed so under the comprehensive plan

1707
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:06,880
and implementing ordinances that have

1708
01:31:06,880 --> 01:31:08,480
now been

1709
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:11,679
adopted after the filing would the rod

1710
01:31:11,679 --> 01:31:13,239
and reel state Place project be

1711
01:31:13,239 --> 01:31:16,430
compliant with those

1712
01:31:16,440 --> 01:31:18,400
ordinances

1713
01:31:18,400 --> 01:31:21,000
possibly um I haven't been through them

1714
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:22,280
to

1715
01:31:22,280 --> 01:31:25,600
dissect them however there

1716
01:31:25,600 --> 01:31:29,480
um uh there may be some issue with

1717
01:31:29,480 --> 01:31:32,639
there's some ambiguous um review I think

1718
01:31:32,639 --> 01:31:34,719
with architecture and things like that

1719
01:31:34,719 --> 01:31:37,880
which it's hard to say in the reading um

1720
01:31:37,880 --> 01:31:40,360
if they would be compliant or not but

1721
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:44,000
dimensionally they probably would be

1722
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,000
compliant so in your general notes you

1723
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:47,480
identifi the

1724
01:31:47,480 --> 01:31:50,119
property was in the RV District in

1725
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:52,159
that's correct what's it now now what

1726
01:31:52,159 --> 01:31:54,000
district is it in

1727
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:56,800
rv2 so was there any previous work done

1728
01:31:56,800 --> 01:32:02,880
on the Senate property expensive okay can you describe that

1729
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:05,000
this this project has had several

1730
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:07,360
approvals all the way to permit

1731
01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,600
issuance um when you say permit issuance

1732
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:11,320
you mean zoning permit zoning permit

1733
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:15,199
issuance which is just to clarify is the

1734
01:32:15,199 --> 01:32:19,119
final Town approval necessary for you

1735
01:32:19,119 --> 01:32:22,360
Town approval to receive permits to

1736
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:24,320
construct so this would be the end of

1737
01:32:24,320 --> 01:32:27,440
the line although isn't it true that you

1738
01:32:27,440 --> 01:32:28,679
would then have to go get building

1739
01:32:28,679 --> 01:32:30,119
permits and other permits from calary

1740
01:32:30,119 --> 01:32:31,920
County development permits that we would

1741
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:33,800
call these yes it's the last stage from

1742
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:36,800
the town okay however on this particular

1743
01:32:36,800 --> 01:32:38,440
project we did have State Highway

1744
01:32:38,440 --> 01:32:41,119
permits and and town permit zoning

1745
01:32:41,119 --> 01:32:43,760
permit and County permits at one

1746
01:32:43,760 --> 01:32:48,920
time um extensive work was done and for

1747
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:50,600
those of you that have lived in town a

1748
01:32:50,600 --> 01:32:52,080
while you may remember number of those

1749
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,520
you don't I'll give you a little history

1750
01:32:54,520 --> 01:32:56,119
lesson

1751
01:32:56,119 --> 01:32:59,360
261 um and SE Street where I was saying

1752
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:01,119
stet restaurant

1753
01:33:01,119 --> 01:33:04,040
was uh it'd be flooded tonight probably

1754
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:07,080
in that day and um was around elevation

1755
01:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,480
one maybe or something like that um tied

1756
01:33:11,480 --> 01:33:14,239
it's elevation 0 42 so you have about

1757
01:33:14,239 --> 01:33:15,880
six inches of play if you have a little

1758
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:18,320
bit of wind and if you're if you're

1759
01:33:18,320 --> 01:33:20,679
familiar with the tidal gate right you

1760
01:33:20,679 --> 01:33:22,800
see it out there you'll wonder what it

1761
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:25,600
is there's a reason that was put in it

1762
01:33:25,600 --> 01:33:29,320
never really worked but uh

1763
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:32,280
so that was put in so if a hurricane or

1764
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:33,679
something came up the bay they could

1765
01:33:33,679 --> 01:33:35,960
shut it right and it wouldn't push up

1766
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:37,159
into the town well you have all the

1767
01:33:37,159 --> 01:33:38,960
water coming down too so you're fighting

1768
01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,760
water coming down and Tide pushing up

1769
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:46,639
anyway um that area was very low and um

1770
01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:49,480
the State Highway Administration and the

1771
01:33:49,480 --> 01:33:52,639
town um and the Don

1772
01:33:52,639 --> 01:33:55,159
I would say worked in in a like a public

1773
01:33:55,159 --> 01:33:57,679
private partnership to fix the area to

1774
01:33:57,679 --> 01:33:59,639
raise it they

1775
01:33:59,639 --> 01:34:04,600
raised 261 I think about six feet um if

1776
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:05,480
I'm not

1777
01:34:05,480 --> 01:34:08,440
mistaken um and at the same

1778
01:34:08,440 --> 01:34:11,719
time with permits in hand the donovans

1779
01:34:11,719 --> 01:34:14,119
raised their properties and the town

1780
01:34:14,119 --> 01:34:15,800
raised SE

1781
01:34:15,800 --> 01:34:18,480
Street um replace the entire sewer

1782
01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:20,440
system because the sewer system every

1783
01:34:20,440 --> 01:34:22,880
time it rained would flow back up

1784
01:34:22,880 --> 01:34:26,600
and overflow into the roads and down

1785
01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:28,360
into the stream

1786
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:32,199
Etc new water lines were put in um a new

1787
01:34:32,199 --> 01:34:34,719
storm drain system was put in new water

1788
01:34:34,719 --> 01:34:36,440
and sewer lines were put in everything

1789
01:34:36,440 --> 01:34:39,360
was raised um by the state by the town

1790
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:40,480
and by the

1791
01:34:40,480 --> 01:34:44,320
donovans as part of that a uh storm

1792
01:34:44,320 --> 01:34:46,679
water pump station was

1793
01:34:46,679 --> 01:34:48,960
installed um if you're not familiar with

1794
01:34:48,960 --> 01:34:51,080
it you see black fence on the property

1795
01:34:51,080 --> 01:34:52,520
goes around around that's what that is

1796
01:34:52,520 --> 01:34:56,250
that's a pump station so when you get

1797
01:34:56,250 --> 01:34:57,440
[Music]

1798
01:34:57,440 --> 01:35:01,440
um large storm events um there's a way

1799
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:04,360
to actually pump the water out of that

1800
01:35:04,360 --> 01:35:07,560
area and without a location to put the

1801
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,760
pump station and the backup it's a it's

1802
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:11,960
a pumparound system the Donovan's

1803
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:15,159
provided easements for that on their

1804
01:35:15,159 --> 01:35:17,239
property um so it could be out of the

1805
01:35:17,239 --> 01:35:18,800
flood plane it actually sits out of the

1806
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:20,280
huner flood

1807
01:35:20,280 --> 01:35:22,400
plane uh

1808
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:25,360
can I a lot ask a clarifying question

1809
01:35:25,360 --> 01:35:27,840
those easements you the pump you were

1810
01:35:27,840 --> 01:35:30,040
talking about was would be a Town Pump

1811
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,440
it's a town facility is correct correct

1812
01:35:32,440 --> 01:35:34,040
but the easement that you were granting

1813
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,199
was on the site plan yes that would for

1814
01:35:37,199 --> 01:35:39,040
the Senate Place project there's no

1815
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:40,920
separate easement for it no it was

1816
01:35:40,920 --> 01:35:42,840
included with the development permit

1817
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:44,800
part of the development permit process

1818
01:35:44,800 --> 01:35:50,390
yes

1819
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:53,990
okay

1820
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:56,400
so now I'm going to submit exhibit 58

1821
01:35:56,400 --> 01:35:58,520
which is the town zoning permit

1822
01:35:58,520 --> 01:36:01,199
6652 it was approved

1823
01:36:01,199 --> 01:36:04,080
8111 and two pages of renewal stamps

1824
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:05,600
showing the permit

1825
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:08,320
5688 being renewed prior to that for

1826
01:36:08,320 --> 01:36:11,800
Sate place so it's three pages that

1827
01:36:11,800 --> 01:36:20,310
would be exhibit

1828
01:36:20,320 --> 01:36:24,870
58

1829
01:36:24,880 --> 01:36:27,280
Mr Woodburn you you described working

1830
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:30,119
the town the donovans

1831
01:36:30,119 --> 01:36:35,870
and the state highway working

1832
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:39,400
together I'm asking you to clarify that

1833
01:36:39,400 --> 01:36:42,719
the development or state place was

1834
01:36:42,719 --> 01:36:45,080
designed to meet the heights of that was

1835
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:46,520
agreed upon by all three of those

1836
01:36:46,520 --> 01:36:48,639
parties that's correct so the pads that

1837
01:36:48,639 --> 01:36:52,400
they now sit are building pads set up up

1838
01:36:52,400 --> 01:36:54,679
for those Heights for all that work that

1839
01:36:54,679 --> 01:36:58,440
was done yes they all worked all the

1840
01:36:58,440 --> 01:37:00,400
three or each of the three entities

1841
01:37:00,400 --> 01:37:02,360
worked together at the same time because

1842
01:37:02,360 --> 01:37:05,480
it was a big bowl so the donovans did

1843
01:37:05,480 --> 01:37:07,239
their part while the state was doing

1844
01:37:07,239 --> 01:37:08,880
their part while the town was doing

1845
01:37:08,880 --> 01:37:11,800
their part so that it all came up

1846
01:37:11,800 --> 01:37:17,189
together raised together I should

1847
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:20,880
say okay let's turn to home place oh let

1848
01:37:20,880 --> 01:37:29,229
me ask let me quickly look at my notes

1849
01:37:29,239 --> 01:37:32,560
here okay home place so this is the

1850
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:34,760
general location Google Map just showing

1851
01:37:34,760 --> 01:37:36,280
you where it

1852
01:37:36,280 --> 01:37:39,880
is and then we'll go to the site plan

1853
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:43,679
which is your sheet two of exhibit 5 Mr

1854
01:37:43,679 --> 01:37:46,360
Woodburn can you describe generally what

1855
01:37:46,360 --> 01:37:48,880
this development is designed to

1856
01:37:48,880 --> 01:37:51,960
accomplish this is oriented North uh as

1857
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,199
you see the north Arrow the top left the

1858
01:37:55,199 --> 01:37:58,679
property uh borders Maryland Route 260

1859
01:37:58,679 --> 01:38:03,040
on the North side and it fronts on Cox

1860
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:07,599
Road um on the South Side the proposed

1861
01:38:07,599 --> 01:38:11,599
project um had two um condominium

1862
01:38:11,599 --> 01:38:15,199
buildings and one single family house to

1863
01:38:15,199 --> 01:38:18,000
mirror the existing home that's on the

1864
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:21,880
property currently um access is off of

1865
01:38:21,880 --> 01:38:23,159
Cox

1866
01:38:23,159 --> 01:38:26,400
Road um you'd come in off Cox and make a

1867
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:28,840
90 degre turn it's called home place was

1868
01:38:28,840 --> 01:38:30,119
the name of the

1869
01:38:30,119 --> 01:38:34,040
road and um you would park some surface

1870
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,599
in front and the two condominium

1871
01:38:36,599 --> 01:38:38,760
buildings are on the right and the

1872
01:38:38,760 --> 01:38:41,000
bottom side of the parking lot and those

1873
01:38:41,000 --> 01:38:44,159
had Podium parking

1874
01:38:44,159 --> 01:38:46,440
beneath so let's turn to the general

1875
01:38:46,440 --> 01:38:49,159
notes which you're one through looks

1876
01:38:49,159 --> 01:38:56,750
like six of your notes

1877
01:38:56,760 --> 01:38:59,320
um and that describes all the lots that

1878
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:01,800
were used to make up this parcel correct

1879
01:39:01,800 --> 01:39:05,189
that's

1880
01:39:05,199 --> 01:39:11,750
correct parcel one and

1881
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:16,920
two so under the ordinance that existed

1882
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:20,040
at the time you filed the

1883
01:39:20,040 --> 01:39:23,040
application would the proposed plan have

1884
01:39:23,040 --> 01:39:25,800
met the zoning ordinance at that time

1885
01:39:25,800 --> 01:39:31,000
yes it's RV and it was in the RV

1886
01:39:31,000 --> 01:39:33,199
district and under the comprehensive

1887
01:39:33,199 --> 01:39:36,560
plan that was subsequently passed 2022

1888
01:39:36,560 --> 01:39:39,400
with the Home Place project be compliant

1889
01:39:39,400 --> 01:39:41,560
it would it's in the rv2 in the new

1890
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,119
ordinance and it would not be

1891
01:39:44,119 --> 01:39:46,400
compliant mainly due to the height

1892
01:39:46,400 --> 01:39:48,320
restriction of 35

1893
01:39:48,320 --> 01:39:51,440
feet if Mr BL I'm sorry I didn't hear

1894
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:54,000
everything what he said okay could you

1895
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:56,960
repeat that under the new

1896
01:39:56,960 --> 01:40:02,760
ordinance um it would not meet code as

1897
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:06,679
um the height restriction of 35 feet

1898
01:40:06,679 --> 01:40:10,840
would uh preclude it from being approved

1899
01:40:10,840 --> 01:40:12,679
or allowed well you also described the

1900
01:40:12,679 --> 01:40:14,840
parking I believe as parking underneath

1901
01:40:14,840 --> 01:40:16,480
correct is that allowed under the

1902
01:40:16,480 --> 01:40:19,159
current no okay so that also would not

1903
01:40:19,159 --> 01:40:24,189
be compliant okay

1904
01:40:24,199 --> 01:40:26,080
so was there any previous work done for

1905
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:29,950
these properties for Home

1906
01:40:29,960 --> 01:40:35,000
Place uh physical construction no um but

1907
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:38,719
we did go through a resoning for growth

1908
01:40:38,719 --> 01:40:42,320
allocation um to go from the LDA to the

1909
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:44,639
Ida which is required for this

1910
01:40:44,639 --> 01:40:46,760
development and that was approved I

1911
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:49,520
think you actually you showed in the

1912
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,760
previous slide apped um under the com

1913
01:40:52,760 --> 01:40:55,719
2010 comprehensive plan as part of the

1914
01:40:55,719 --> 01:41:00,430
growth allocation approval

1915
01:41:00,440 --> 01:41:03,000
y but you you must have gotten site plan

1916
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:04,119
approval because you also got zoning

1917
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:06,239
permits we did get site plan approval

1918
01:41:06,239 --> 01:41:09,239
and uh zoning permit yes okay so I'm

1919
01:41:09,239 --> 01:41:17,350
going to offer as exhibit

1920
01:41:17,360 --> 01:41:21,679
59 the four pages

1921
01:41:21,679 --> 01:41:25,800
the first two are zoning permit and

1922
01:41:25,800 --> 01:41:28,560
renewals

1923
01:41:28,560 --> 01:41:31,719
forms first one issued it looks like in

1924
01:41:31,719 --> 01:41:35,870
2009 February 12th of

1925
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,440
2009 as well as the application for

1926
01:41:38,440 --> 01:41:39,719
grading

1927
01:41:39,719 --> 01:41:41,599
permit

1928
01:41:41,599 --> 01:41:49,830
to calary

1929
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:58,149
County

1930
01:41:58,159 --> 01:42:00,080
Mr Woodburn were you to serve as a civil

1931
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:02,119
engineer on all these

1932
01:42:02,119 --> 01:42:04,840
developments yes and what does a Civil

1933
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:09,000
Engineer do for projects like this so uh

1934
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:12,239
we will prepare all the site development

1935
01:42:12,239 --> 01:42:14,520
plans some of which you've seen here

1936
01:42:14,520 --> 01:42:15,800
which will

1937
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:20,080
include a site plan a landscape plan

1938
01:42:20,080 --> 01:42:23,520
utility plans such as water sewer storm

1939
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,800
drain storm water management grading

1940
01:42:26,800 --> 01:42:28,800
roads parking

1941
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:33,199
Etc um we'd also coordinate with other

1942
01:42:33,199 --> 01:42:37,560
uh Consultants such as Contra or the um

1943
01:42:37,560 --> 01:42:40,400
Architects um for locating the building

1944
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:44,239
and and such um a geotechnical engineer

1945
01:42:44,239 --> 01:42:46,599
Structural Engineers things like that

1946
01:42:46,599 --> 01:42:49,760
and then uh assist with uh filing the

1947
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:51,760
applications

1948
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,280
War zoning permit building permit

1949
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:56,760
grading permits Etc so when you're doing

1950
01:42:56,760 --> 01:42:58,679
that work with the Architects and the

1951
01:42:58,679 --> 01:43:01,800
contractors um part of that includes for

1952
01:43:01,800 --> 01:43:04,719
your work getting the foundation set at

1953
01:43:04,719 --> 01:43:09,950
the right grade correct first

1954
01:43:09,960 --> 01:43:12,159
correct how many different projects have

1955
01:43:12,159 --> 01:43:13,920
you worked on for buildings such as this

1956
01:43:13,920 --> 01:43:16,239
where you would act as a civil engineer

1957
01:43:16,239 --> 01:43:19,080
if you can guess or give an estimate I

1958
01:43:19,080 --> 01:43:21,679
shouldn't call it a guess an estimate

1959
01:43:21,679 --> 01:43:23,280
hundreds

1960
01:43:23,280 --> 01:43:25,400
okay and you're the civil engineer for

1961
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:26,719
the rot and reel development at the

1962
01:43:26,719 --> 01:43:34,790
resort that's

1963
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,000
correct so given your knowledge and

1964
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,360
experience and having been involved in

1965
01:43:40,360 --> 01:43:42,280
developing and submitting these site

1966
01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:44,880
plans do you believe that if the

1967
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:47,440
Planning and Zoning commission had

1968
01:43:47,440 --> 01:43:49,800
approved the site plans in the spring of

1969
01:43:49,800 --> 01:43:52,119
2021

1970
01:43:52,119 --> 01:43:53,800
would the projects have been able to

1971
01:43:53,800 --> 01:43:59,910
begin construction before May of

1972
01:43:59,920 --> 01:44:03,840
22 we're going way way uh into the realm

1973
01:44:03,840 --> 01:44:05,880
of him as expressing an opinion

1974
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:07,480
especially an opinion as to what he

1975
01:44:07,480 --> 01:44:09,400
thinks another administrative board may

1976
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:12,599
or may not have done um I mean that's

1977
01:44:12,599 --> 01:44:14,080
not only is he expressing an opinion at

1978
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:15,760
this point but he's trying to express an

1979
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:17,560
opinion as to what the Planning

1980
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:20,400
Commission may or may not have done so

1981
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:22,520
yeah it's great we could all have an

1982
01:44:22,520 --> 01:44:27,840
opinion about something but that's we's asking now it's just a pure

1983
01:44:27,840 --> 01:44:31,400
speculation my question stipulated if

1984
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:33,480
you had gotten approval so let's that's

1985
01:44:33,480 --> 01:44:36,159
the condition if you had gotten approval

1986
01:44:36,159 --> 01:44:38,719
in the spring of 2021 would you have

1987
01:44:38,719 --> 01:44:41,199
been able to get these projects under

1988
01:44:41,199 --> 01:44:44,719
construction before May of 2022 he has

1989
01:44:44,719 --> 01:44:46,920
experience with doing many of these

1990
01:44:46,920 --> 01:44:48,199
projects he's doing the rod and reel

1991
01:44:48,199 --> 01:44:51,840
project he's done the he he can testify

1992
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:54,520
from his experience about how quickly

1993
01:44:54,520 --> 01:44:57,239
the construction could have

1994
01:44:57,239 --> 01:44:59,599
started was a different question that

1995
01:44:59,599 --> 01:45:00,840
was a different question so I would have

1996
01:45:00,840 --> 01:45:02,679
no objection to that question because

1997
01:45:02,679 --> 01:45:03,719
that was a different question that he

1998
01:45:03,719 --> 01:45:07,280
asked before so um please answer the

1999
01:45:07,280 --> 01:45:09,440
question is to based on your experience

2000
01:45:09,440 --> 01:45:12,400
as an engineer regardless of the timing

2001
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:16,480
of any administrative outcomes would the

2002
01:45:16,480 --> 01:45:19,320
how far along would the construction be

2003
01:45:19,320 --> 01:45:23,629
in the timeline so

2004
01:45:23,639 --> 01:45:26,639
um again just to to let you know I do

2005
01:45:26,639 --> 01:45:28,760
these permits daily I've done it for 30

2006
01:45:28,760 --> 01:45:31,960
years I can't guarantee it'll be permit

2007
01:45:31,960 --> 01:45:34,599
will be approved in a week a month or

2008
01:45:34,599 --> 01:45:37,719
you know a year however um if you were

2009
01:45:37,719 --> 01:45:41,199
to ask me on this project or any one of

2010
01:45:41,199 --> 01:45:44,119
these projects can I get a foundation

2011
01:45:44,119 --> 01:45:46,639
permit within a year of site plan

2012
01:45:46,639 --> 01:45:49,480
approval I would say absolutely

2013
01:45:49,480 --> 01:45:56,990
yes

2014
01:45:57,000 --> 01:46:00,840
and um can you what is the what does a

2015
01:46:00,840 --> 01:46:03,080
foundation permit mean in terms of the

2016
01:46:03,080 --> 01:46:06,159
so it's a good question so

2017
01:46:06,159 --> 01:46:09,760
um in my world there's lots of permits

2018
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:11,280
um ultimately you want the final

2019
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:13,199
building permit that's everything right

2020
01:46:13,199 --> 01:46:19,599
move in ready but um in the essence of time um especially when you're trying

2021
01:46:19,599 --> 01:46:23,159
to get things done in weather um so

2022
01:46:23,159 --> 01:46:25,000
you're like okay what can we get

2023
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:26,920
approved so that we can get through

2024
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:29,800
winter let's say we'd say we're going to

2025
01:46:29,800 --> 01:46:33,280
file for a foundation only permit so

2026
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:34,679
this would be a permit to just put the

2027
01:46:34,679 --> 01:46:37,360
concrete foundation in so that the

2028
01:46:37,360 --> 01:46:39,800
contractor then has some work to do they

2029
01:46:39,800 --> 01:46:41,440
can put in a lot of utilities below

2030
01:46:41,440 --> 01:46:43,719
ground and work on other things while

2031
01:46:43,719 --> 01:46:45,639
they're trying to get the final building

2032
01:46:45,639 --> 01:46:48,800
permit to erect the the

2033
01:46:48,800 --> 01:46:51,560
vertical so uh we we'll do Foundation

2034
01:46:51,560 --> 01:46:54,599
only permits they're pretty common so

2035
01:46:54,599 --> 01:46:56,400
let me follow up with a question then

2036
01:46:56,400 --> 01:46:58,960
the foundation permit would include the

2037
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:02,080
permit for driving piles correct and the

2038
01:47:02,080 --> 01:47:05,040
pile caps anything below grade so that

2039
01:47:05,040 --> 01:47:08,080
would include any of the grade beams and

2040
01:47:08,080 --> 01:47:10,159
the the horizontal beams that are

2041
01:47:10,159 --> 01:47:12,000
underneath below grade for the

2042
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:14,400
foundation

2043
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:16,639
okay I have no other questions of Mr

2044
01:47:16,639 --> 01:47:20,880
Woodburn and so I stop allow cross okay

2045
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:24,239
um at this point in time

2046
01:47:24,239 --> 01:47:27,040
um examine Mr Woodburn based on the

2047
01:47:27,040 --> 01:47:28,639
contents of his testimony

2048
01:47:28,639 --> 01:47:31,159
today um I can de mine's going to be

2049
01:47:31,159 --> 01:47:33,159
longer than the 15 minutes uh Mr

2050
01:47:33,159 --> 01:47:34,480
Woodburn would you make yourself

2051
01:47:34,480 --> 01:47:36,679
available at the end of Mr bliss's

2052
01:47:36,679 --> 01:47:38,920
presentation for additional questions of

2053
01:47:38,920 --> 01:47:43,070
your testimony

2054
01:47:43,080 --> 01:47:45,960
sure uh if you have a question uh that

2055
01:47:45,960 --> 01:47:47,880
what what has been presented today

2056
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:49,679
please step to the lecturn uh put if

2057
01:47:49,679 --> 01:47:52,760
make sure your name on the list

2058
01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:56,040
um of um what's the

2059
01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:59,119
word uh I will add my

2060
01:47:59,119 --> 01:48:02,400
name part yeah yeah thank you arties of

2061
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:04,360
record your name is on the list and uh

2062
01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:05,880
you may ask questions but only to the

2063
01:48:05,880 --> 01:48:09,639
scope yes sir presented Greg Morris

2064
01:48:09,639 --> 01:48:15,030
2425 Woodland

2065
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:18,350
Court

2066
01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:23,149
301873 4036 thank

2067
01:48:23,159 --> 01:48:26,599
you Mr Woodburn have you ever worked for

2068
01:48:26,599 --> 01:48:28,360
the town of ches big

2069
01:48:28,360 --> 01:48:31,239
beach you direct them to me or you yes

2070
01:48:31,239 --> 01:48:34,719
he can ask them to you okay fine uh have

2071
01:48:34,719 --> 01:48:37,920
I ever work for the town CH yes please

2072
01:48:37,920 --> 01:48:40,880
explain the capacity you served so I was

2073
01:48:40,880 --> 01:48:42,280
Town

2074
01:48:42,280 --> 01:48:48,239
engineer um uh see on and off between

2075
01:48:48,239 --> 01:48:51,000
2000 I don't know exactly when I started

2076
01:48:51,000 --> 01:48:54,629
for to

2077
01:48:54,639 --> 01:48:59,280
2020 long long span there uh so you were

2078
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:02,920
acting Town civil engineer at that

2079
01:49:02,920 --> 01:49:06,960
time mostly not all during that time

2080
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:08,280
were you in charge of Planning and

2081
01:49:08,280 --> 01:49:09,960
Zoning review and recommendations to the

2082
01:49:09,960 --> 01:49:14,280
town was not was it can you explain

2083
01:49:14,280 --> 01:49:17,239
kubak is the zoning administrator when

2084
01:49:17,239 --> 01:49:20,440
did he uh begin serving as that don't

2085
01:49:20,440 --> 01:49:22,599
remember

2086
01:49:22,599 --> 01:49:25,199
sorry any time during your tenure with

2087
01:49:25,199 --> 01:49:27,119
the town did you also work with a rod

2088
01:49:27,119 --> 01:49:28,960
and reel in any capacity related to the

2089
01:49:28,960 --> 01:49:30,560
subject Pro

2090
01:49:30,560 --> 01:49:33,920
projects uh yes have further questions

2091
01:49:33,920 --> 01:49:44,750
thank

2092
01:49:44,760 --> 01:49:48,800
you or blackw 3256 Canon King Court ches

2093
01:49:48,800 --> 01:49:50,639
Peake Beach Maryland

2094
01:49:50,639 --> 01:50:10,589
Mr n Laura black

2095
01:50:10,599 --> 01:50:13,760
welder Mr Woodburn was the email

2096
01:50:13,760 --> 01:50:16,080
informing you of the moratorium the only

2097
01:50:16,080 --> 01:50:18,119
comment that you received from Mr chubak

2098
01:50:18,119 --> 01:50:19,440
when you were working with him on these

2099
01:50:19,440 --> 01:50:21,239
projects

2100
01:50:21,239 --> 01:50:23,840
yes you did not have any meetings with

2101
01:50:23,840 --> 01:50:26,360
him about the properties he did not

2102
01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,800
communicate any concerns about anything

2103
01:50:29,800 --> 01:50:31,440
that was the

2104
01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:34,599
only correspondence that you had with

2105
01:50:34,599 --> 01:50:38,239
him okay so can you define

2106
01:50:38,239 --> 01:50:41,360
correspondence um well when you're

2107
01:50:41,360 --> 01:50:43,040
working with the zoning administrator

2108
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:45,599
you're you're meeting with him I assume

2109
01:50:45,599 --> 01:50:48,239
verbal correspondence sure yeah before

2110
01:50:48,239 --> 01:50:52,910
the submittal or after the submitt

2111
01:50:52,920 --> 01:50:54,880
appli after the submitt I had no

2112
01:50:54,880 --> 01:50:57,840
conversations with him no and before the

2113
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:00,119
submittal did he communicate any

2114
01:51:00,119 --> 01:51:04,079
concerns to you as I testified yes okay

2115
01:51:04,079 --> 01:51:07,350
yes

2116
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:14,149
um

2117
01:51:14,159 --> 01:51:17,719
and could those concerns that he had

2118
01:51:17,719 --> 01:51:20,599
about your site plans be a reason why he

2119
01:51:20,599 --> 01:51:22,320
would not bring them to the Planning

2120
01:51:22,320 --> 01:51:24,360
Commission I don't

2121
01:51:24,360 --> 01:51:27,320
know he did not state

2122
01:51:27,320 --> 01:51:30,679
that and he's not here to

2123
01:51:30,679 --> 01:51:34,159
testify um so so what you're saying is

2124
01:51:34,159 --> 01:51:37,360
you don't know why Mr he said I can read

2125
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:41,320
you what he said if you'd like right but you also just testified that you

2126
01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:44,239
don't know why Mr dubak did not bring

2127
01:51:44,239 --> 01:51:46,360
the site plans to the Planning

2128
01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:47,960
Commission for review I know what he

2129
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:50,040
said yeah I know his reason yes if you

2130
01:51:50,040 --> 01:51:51,960
like me to read it I can that's all I

2131
01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:54,760
can tell you I read it as well but you

2132
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:57,119
will agree that you can't get into Mr

2133
01:51:57,119 --> 01:52:00,199
duc's head yeah I can't do

2134
01:52:00,199 --> 01:52:02,320
that

2135
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:05,119
yes

2136
01:52:05,119 --> 01:52:09,040
um in your experience is a category one

2137
01:52:09,040 --> 01:52:11,360
site plan typically reviewed and

2138
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:14,760
approved within 60 days of filing of an

2139
01:52:14,760 --> 01:52:16,679
application I would have no reason to

2140
01:52:16,679 --> 01:52:17,880
believe it wouldn't

2141
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:21,199
be you said you filed hundreds of those

2142
01:52:21,199 --> 01:52:24,199
hundreds town no I haven't right so of

2143
01:52:24,199 --> 01:52:27,159
those hundreds that you've submitted

2144
01:52:27,159 --> 01:52:29,000
what percentage would you say is

2145
01:52:29,000 --> 01:52:31,400
reviewed and approved within 60 days of

2146
01:52:31,400 --> 01:52:34,360
your filing I've never added them up I

2147
01:52:34,360 --> 01:52:35,159
don't

2148
01:52:35,159 --> 01:52:39,960
know can you guess no is it

2149
01:52:39,960 --> 01:52:42,880
100% I don't know you don't know if it's

2150
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:44,480
100% or not I keep track of that

2151
01:52:44,480 --> 01:52:47,719
information I couldn't tell

2152
01:52:47,719 --> 01:52:52,069
you okay

2153
01:52:52,079 --> 01:52:55,280
to your knowledge was the rod and reil

2154
01:52:55,280 --> 01:52:58,199
expansion accounted for in any of the

2155
01:52:58,199 --> 01:53:03,629
site plans that were previously

2156
01:53:03,639 --> 01:53:05,719
approved Che just because I don't

2157
01:53:05,719 --> 01:53:09,390
understand the

2158
01:53:09,400 --> 01:53:14,360
question and please just restate so um

2159
01:53:14,360 --> 01:53:18,040
well I'll I'll start with a different

2160
01:53:18,040 --> 01:53:20,560
question to your knowledge was the

2161
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,440
expansion of the rod and reel a known

2162
01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:28,550
project in the 2010 comprehensive

2163
01:53:28,560 --> 01:53:31,760
plan I don't know

2164
01:53:31,760 --> 01:53:34,880
that um it was it was the known projects

2165
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:37,560
are listed in the 2010 comprehensive

2166
01:53:37,560 --> 01:53:39,760
plan was it listed there oh you bring it

2167
01:53:39,760 --> 01:53:41,560
out I'll look I I don't remember if the

2168
01:53:41,560 --> 01:53:44,320
rod and reel was I don't remember that

2169
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:46,560
it's not part of this hearing I don't

2170
01:53:46,560 --> 01:53:52,560
know right so to your knowledge were

2171
01:53:52,560 --> 01:53:54,679
traffic studies associated with any of

2172
01:53:54,679 --> 01:53:56,199
these

2173
01:53:56,199 --> 01:54:00,599
projects accounting for a rod and reel

2174
01:54:00,599 --> 01:54:09,430
expansion not to my

2175
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:12,199
knowledge you have any knowledge to

2176
01:54:12,199 --> 01:54:14,159
describe the additional

2177
01:54:14,159 --> 01:54:16,760
mitigation that was performed to account

2178
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:19,360
for the Roden reel expansion and

2179
01:54:19,360 --> 01:54:21,480
revision

2180
01:54:21,480 --> 01:54:23,800
as part of this hearing I have no idea

2181
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:25,719
wait I don't know you already testified

2182
01:54:25,719 --> 01:54:28,480
about the shared mitigation

2183
01:54:28,480 --> 01:54:31,360
for the rod and reel expansion I I don't

2184
01:54:31,360 --> 01:54:32,960
know what that means as far as this

2185
01:54:32,960 --> 01:54:35,360
hearing goes I'm not following it no

2186
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:37,400
this is getting a little bit outside of

2187
01:54:37,400 --> 01:54:39,679
I I I agree it is in the scope of this

2188
01:54:39,679 --> 01:54:42,520
hearing but maybe not in the testimony

2189
01:54:42,520 --> 01:54:44,760
that has been presented today so I

2190
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:48,679
suspect we will come back to this thank

2191
01:54:48,679 --> 01:54:57,750
you

2192
01:54:57,760 --> 01:54:59,079
if we can come back to it I'll ask

2193
01:54:59,079 --> 01:55:06,950
further questions later thank you thank

2194
01:55:06,960 --> 01:55:10,040
you good evening uh my name is Kathleen

2195
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:13,000
baralt and I live at 7409 B Street in

2196
01:55:13,000 --> 01:55:16,589
Chesapeake Beach

2197
01:55:16,599 --> 01:55:19,360
20732 you need my me to say my phone

2198
01:55:19,360 --> 01:55:21,800
number no that's perfectly f um Mr

2199
01:55:21,800 --> 01:55:24,480
Woodburn uh I just wanted to ask uh one

2200
01:55:24,480 --> 01:55:28,520
question uh in your experience um you

2201
01:55:28,520 --> 01:55:32,760
had testified earlier and said that the

2202
01:55:32,760 --> 01:55:37,159
plan was in compliance and then when uh

2203
01:55:37,159 --> 01:55:39,119
in this instance because of the

2204
01:55:39,119 --> 01:55:42,679
moratorium it now is not in compliance

2205
01:55:42,679 --> 01:55:46,599
have you experienced that with other

2206
01:55:46,599 --> 01:55:50,880
buildings in in your experience

2207
01:55:50,880 --> 01:55:52,639
um I I don't know as if it was really

2208
01:55:52,639 --> 01:55:55,639
the moratorium it was the new zoning

2209
01:55:55,639 --> 01:55:57,800
well I mean not necessarily a moratorium

2210
01:55:57,800 --> 01:56:01,159
but that initially that the property was

2211
01:56:01,159 --> 01:56:03,599
about to be approved and then because

2212
01:56:03,599 --> 01:56:06,560
for example a change administratively in

2213
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:10,040
comprehensive plan the plan the

2214
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:13,159
application no longer is in compliance

2215
01:56:13,159 --> 01:56:16,119
you've experienced that before we're an

2216
01:56:16,119 --> 01:56:18,000
applic so let me if I understand your

2217
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:20,360
question we reward a little bit

2218
01:56:20,360 --> 01:56:22,440
so your question I think

2219
01:56:22,440 --> 01:56:25,800
is have I experienced an application of

2220
01:56:25,800 --> 01:56:29,840
a project that before it got reviewed I

2221
01:56:29,840 --> 01:56:31,920
think is what you're asking me that

2222
01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:35,280
there was a change in something a policy

2223
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:38,719
maybe or something that would render the

2224
01:56:38,719 --> 01:56:40,679
project to not be

2225
01:56:40,679 --> 01:56:43,280
reviewed not just a policy she think she

2226
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:45,079
was referring to ordinance or ordinance

2227
01:56:45,079 --> 01:56:46,440
I'm sorry I didn't say I didn't mean

2228
01:56:46,440 --> 01:56:49,920
policy ordinance sorry yeah I I guess

2229
01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:52,040
what I'm asking something that you what

2230
01:56:52,040 --> 01:56:55,040
you experienced in this instance here

2231
01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:57,560
that the project I can't say that I've

2232
01:56:57,560 --> 01:57:01,040
ever had one happen like this um but

2233
01:57:01,040 --> 01:57:05,199
I've had projects where um in the middle

2234
01:57:05,199 --> 01:57:08,360
of a review cycle during a review

2235
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:10,719
somewhere in the process an ordinance

2236
01:57:10,719 --> 01:57:13,520
was changed that affected the outcome of

2237
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:16,079
a project yes would you say that

2238
01:57:16,079 --> 01:57:18,400
happened frequently or is it very

2239
01:57:18,400 --> 01:57:22,520
infrequent but it has happened okay

2240
01:57:22,520 --> 01:57:27,189
thank

2241
01:57:27,199 --> 01:57:29,159
you right we are coming to the end of

2242
01:57:29,159 --> 01:57:31,440
the testimony I will finish up with one

2243
01:57:31,440 --> 01:57:33,560
of my own

2244
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:40,790
um

2245
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:44,040
oh um Mr Woodburn will be here at the

2246
01:57:44,040 --> 01:57:47,440
end of um end of the presentation um I I

2247
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:49,079
would hope that we' get all the

2248
01:57:49,079 --> 01:57:50,320
questions concerning what he's talked

2249
01:57:50,320 --> 01:57:54,320
about here today done um but I suppose

2250
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,440
it is it is open so yes he will he will

2251
01:57:57,440 --> 01:58:02,149
be back for um further

2252
01:58:02,159 --> 01:58:04,199
questions you're gonna you're going to

2253
01:58:04,199 --> 01:58:06,239
be cross-examining Mr Woodburn at the

2254
01:58:06,239 --> 01:58:07,560
start of the next meeting that's what

2255
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:10,880
you're saying okay uh yes that will be

2256
01:58:10,880 --> 01:58:15,199
fine okay fair enough um my my question

2257
01:58:15,199 --> 01:58:20,239
is um when you submit a site plan

2258
01:58:20,239 --> 01:58:23,119
how many are typically submitted at

2259
01:58:23,119 --> 01:58:25,760
once what do you mean like the number of

2260
01:58:25,760 --> 01:58:28,320
like yeah right you have you submit one

2261
01:58:28,320 --> 01:58:31,400
at a time or do you submit 10 in a

2262
01:58:31,400 --> 01:58:33,960
bucket and slide them all it it depends

2263
01:58:33,960 --> 01:58:35,719
um I mean I have a town housee

2264
01:58:35,719 --> 01:58:38,599
subdivision that I just submitted 50

2265
01:58:38,599 --> 01:58:41,079
today um now they're single family you

2266
01:58:41,079 --> 01:58:43,880
know single Town units I mean they're

2267
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:44,679
all

2268
01:58:44,679 --> 01:58:48,320
different um

2269
01:58:48,320 --> 01:58:51,360
so I mean in this you ask me for this

2270
01:58:51,360 --> 01:58:54,159
case or in general in general yeah your

2271
01:58:54,159 --> 01:58:57,920
yeah I've done both and does many does

2272
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:00,199
the cat one

2273
01:59:00,199 --> 01:59:02,920
classification make a difference in your

2274
01:59:02,920 --> 01:59:07,079
experience like when people submit 50

2275
01:59:07,079 --> 01:59:10,360
applications at once would they be as

2276
01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:12,360
large as a cat one set like just give me

2277
01:59:12,360 --> 01:59:13,840
the sense from your profal experience

2278
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:16,239
like category one's unique to CH b b so

2279
01:59:16,239 --> 01:59:18,880
it's a little different and it it rides

2280
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:21,280
because critical area added to it so

2281
01:59:21,280 --> 01:59:24,480
there's you know that complexity to it

2282
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:26,079
[Music]

2283
01:59:26,079 --> 01:59:29,440
um you know it depends I mean I I do

2284
01:59:29,440 --> 01:59:32,280
projects where there's a hundred sheets

2285
01:59:32,280 --> 01:59:36,159
for one project so you got have to look

2286
01:59:36,159 --> 01:59:38,960
at a 100 Sheets if if if you had five

2287
01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:40,840
projects and it's 10 sheets right you

2288
01:59:40,840 --> 01:59:43,599
get it's hard to it's hard to wait out

2289
01:59:43,599 --> 01:59:46,480
the way you're asking the question

2290
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:48,239
um but

2291
01:59:48,239 --> 01:59:52,360
certainly one's less than five

2292
01:59:52,360 --> 01:59:57,239
right thank you yeah um in that case um

2293
01:59:57,239 --> 02:00:00,920
we are planning to resume this hearing

2294
02:00:00,920 --> 02:00:04,599
on February 8th may24 at 7

2295
02:00:04,599 --> 02:00:08,840
pm everybody's awareness um and at this

2296
02:00:08,840 --> 02:00:10,520
time I will entertain a motion to

2297
02:00:10,520 --> 02:00:12,719
adjourn the meeting until February 8th

2298
02:00:12,719 --> 02:00:16,840
at 7 pm move to Jour second I will

2299
02:00:16,840 --> 02:00:20,360
second that favor

2300
02:00:20,360 --> 02:00:29,510
all we are adjourned thank you

2301
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:32,520
everybody