1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:28,950
at 6:32

2
00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:58,910
yeah

3
00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:52,350
e

4
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,399
good evening everybody this is the call

5
00:01:54,399 --> 00:01:56,360
to order for the chesc beach board of

6
00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:01,240
appeals 6:30 p.m. March 14th 202 24 we

7
00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,560
begin with a roll call please answer if

8
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,240
you are present uh Mr Richard Burch

9
00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,280
present Mr Paul dhy present Miss Amy

10
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:16,879
Everett present I Mr Jody star um we are

11
00:02:16,879 --> 00:02:19,080
now going to ask Sharon if we received

12
00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:21,160
any public comments since the last

13
00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,879
session we have not public comments um

14
00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:28,080
okay uh first thing on the docket is the

15
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,160
approval of the minutes from our last

16
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,360
meeting this would be case

17
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,959
20233 uh the meeting date was February

18
00:02:34,959 --> 00:02:37,920
8th 2024 and we should have received

19
00:02:37,920 --> 00:02:41,920
this from uh Sharon on around February

20
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:44,360
22nd um does anybody have any comments

21
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:45,599
they'd like to make on those meeting

22
00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:49,910
minutes at this this

23
00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,400
time all right hearing none I will

24
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,360
entertain a motion to approve the

25
00:02:54,360 --> 00:03:01,319
minutes I'll make that motion second right all in favor I hi hi all

26
00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:04,280
right the minutes are approved uh normal

27
00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,440
set of announcements we'll be limiting

28
00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,080
tonight's session to two hours we'll end

29
00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,879
around 8:30 uh anybody in the gallery

30
00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:12,560
please direct any comments and questions

31
00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,080
concerning the ad administration of this

32
00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,640
hearing to the chair or uh legal council

33
00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:19,840
Mr susman here um third parties of

34
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:22,159
record may ask questions of any uh given

35
00:03:22,159 --> 00:03:23,519
testimony at the conclusion of that

36
00:03:23,519 --> 00:03:25,440
testimony question should be limited in

37
00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:27,560
scope to the to uh address information

38
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:29,400
presented I will indicate to the gallery

39
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,799
when this option is available uh in

40
00:03:31,799 --> 00:03:33,720
terms of our order presentation we are

41
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:35,760
still on step number one which is

42
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,080
appellant testimony by uh an Evidence by

43
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,360
Mr Blitz uh once that is completed we

44
00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:42,840
will move to Mr pounds uh for Town step

45
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,599
testimony and evidence um at which point

46
00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:47,319
uh any persons or entities whose rights

47
00:03:47,319 --> 00:03:48,879
are impacted by the appeal this would be

48
00:03:48,879 --> 00:03:50,959
members of the public will be allowed to

49
00:03:50,959 --> 00:03:53,560
speak um and we will follow that up with

50
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:55,159
summary statements at which point we

51
00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:57,439
will close this hearing and begin

52
00:03:57,439 --> 00:03:59,280
deliberations um so members of the

53
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,280
public this means you most likely won't

54
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,680
be able to speak

55
00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,360
today all right uh we are ready to

56
00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,519
continue um this is a continuation of

57
00:04:08,519 --> 00:04:11,239
case 20233 Rod Incorporated donov EST

58
00:04:11,239 --> 00:04:12,959
States LLC to consider an application

59
00:04:12,959 --> 00:04:16,840
from Rod uh uh 4160 MIRS Avenue

60
00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:18,320
Chesapeake Beach Maryland for decision

61
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:19,919
on interpretation or alleged error to

62
00:04:19,919 --> 00:04:23,520
article 6 section 29023 2931 A1 and A6

63
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:25,280
of the chesap beach Zing ordinance and

64
00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,120
C309 c310 and c311 of the chesap beach

65
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,840
Town Charter applicant requests the

66
00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:31,240
Chesapeake Beach zoning board of appeals

67
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:32,960
to quote order the zoning administrator

68
00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,120
and planning and zoning commission to

69
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:35,720
immediately commence and prioritize

70
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,320
processing and review of the relevant

71
00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:38,960
site plans submitted by Roden real

72
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,000
Incorporated Donan Estates LLC and that

73
00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,320
the zoning administrator and planning

74
00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:43,600
and zoning commission be ordered to

75
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,280
apply the zoning ordinances in effect as

76
00:04:46,280 --> 00:04:49,240
of January 29 2021 when the applications

77
00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,960
were submitted and for such other and

78
00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:52,479
further relief as the nature of their

79
00:04:52,479 --> 00:04:55,479
case or their cause requires and I will

80
00:04:55,479 --> 00:04:58,479
pass it to Mr Blitz for his presentation

81
00:04:58,479 --> 00:05:00,080
good evening Eric Blitz on behalf of the

82
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,479
Roden reel Don States LLC um so tonight

83
00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:07,320
we're going to start with the testimony

84
00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,039
of Mr Donovan Wesley

85
00:05:10,039 --> 00:05:13,520
Donovan um I'd ask that he be sworn just

86
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:21,550
in case so we don't have any

87
00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:27,240
issues sare PTY the perjury testimony

88
00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:29,240
that you were about to give and the

89
00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,440
respon and statements you're about to

90
00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,400
make will be the truth the whole truth

91
00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,560
and nothing but the truth I do your name

92
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,639
Wesley Donovan than thank you thank you

93
00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:44,199
so Mr Donovan um let's start with the

94
00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:46,199
homl property

95
00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:48,639
um for that property how long had the

96
00:05:48,639 --> 00:05:52,199
Donovan family own that property uh it

97
00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:55,440
was the house my father grew up in

98
00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,440
so late 40s early 50s thereabouts okay

99
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,120
and eventually the Home Place property

100
00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,000
was transferred to Donovan Estates LLC

101
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,280
for the development of that property

102
00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:10,599
correct yes okay and Donovan Estates LLC

103
00:06:10,599 --> 00:06:13,440
is wholly owned by the Roden reel

104
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:15,960
yes for the Sate property how long had

105
00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,319
the Donan family own that property uh

106
00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:22,759
1936 um now right now State Property

107
00:06:22,759 --> 00:06:24,759
consists of two building pads correct

108
00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:27,520
yes um what was it used for before give

109
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,759
us a little history of what was used for

110
00:06:30,759 --> 00:06:31,520
uh in

111
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440
1936 my great-grandfather opened up

112
00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,280
stennis

113
00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:40,120
restaurant and it remained there until

114
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:45,280
Hurricane Isabel in 2003 I believe

115
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,919
okay and eventually the SED property was

116
00:06:49,919 --> 00:06:51,360
transferred to the rod and reel for

117
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,670
development as well correct that's

118
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,520
[Music]

119
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,039
correct

120
00:07:00,039 --> 00:07:02,560
and you were present for the previous

121
00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:04,879
testimony uh that set forth some of the

122
00:07:04,879 --> 00:07:07,599
many permits um for the developments of

123
00:07:07,599 --> 00:07:09,080
the rod and reel properties that were

124
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,160
are at issue in this case yes and um

125
00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:14,440
that were obtained during the prior

126
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,400
years and all of which expired correct

127
00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,039
okay

128
00:07:20,039 --> 00:07:22,479
um with respect to the zoning permits

129
00:07:22,479 --> 00:07:25,039
issued for the state place in

130
00:07:25,039 --> 00:07:27,639
2006 uh and subsequently renewed for a

131
00:07:27,639 --> 00:07:31,000
few years um

132
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,160
we've heard testimony that they

133
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,400
did they raised the grade did

134
00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:44,759
utilities the town was allowed to put a some sort of pump on the property

135
00:07:44,759 --> 00:07:46,680
um

136
00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,400
and my question is why did that not uh

137
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,800
continue to the building

138
00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:58,319
phase um well in in 2008 we had the

139
00:07:58,319 --> 00:08:00,280
financial crisis

140
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,520
and at that point it was decided upon

141
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:07,720
that it it didn't make sense to proceed

142
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,479
it at that

143
00:08:10,479 --> 00:08:14,479
point because the market didn't support

144
00:08:14,479 --> 00:08:18,039
multif family

145
00:08:18,039 --> 00:08:20,879
correct in 2009 you still had approvals

146
00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:24,919
for the Home Place correct yes and was

147
00:08:24,919 --> 00:08:27,360
those same market conditions um

148
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,039
responsible for that project not moving

149
00:08:29,039 --> 00:08:29,960
forward

150
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,919
they were

151
00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:34,640
okay well I guess let me just ask was

152
00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:36,880
that the same for the Harbor vist Harbor

153
00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,800
Vista West North and Harbor Vista South

154
00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,200
properties during that period yeah

155
00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,279
during that period for

156
00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:45,880
sure

157
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,040
so we've heard testimony about all of

158
00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,519
the Preparatory work that was done

159
00:08:50,519 --> 00:08:53,600
including utilities and site work some

160
00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,320
mitigation at the three properties for

161
00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,519
critical area mitigation for the um

162
00:08:59,519 --> 00:09:02,079
Harbor Vista north south and west

163
00:09:02,079 --> 00:09:06,480
effectively um so Mr Donovan at some

164
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,480
point the Roden reel decided to restart

165
00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:09,920
the devel development of these

166
00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,959
properties correct yes and when was

167
00:09:12,959 --> 00:09:14,560
that

168
00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:19,910
uh well Harbor Vista South was about

169
00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,079
2015

170
00:09:22,079 --> 00:09:26,440
um you started that project first as a

171
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,079
restart yeah that's the one that we

172
00:09:29,079 --> 00:09:30,720
started started with correct okay and

173
00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,160
what led you to the decision to move

174
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,760
forward on that project in

175
00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,440
2015 well we we we were doing that in

176
00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:44,880
conjunction with um the rod re uh Resort

177
00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,360
development Redevelopment but we had

178
00:09:47,360 --> 00:09:49,480
done a feasibility

179
00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:54,360
study and at that time in 2015 it came

180
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,279
back saying that all of the projects we

181
00:09:57,279 --> 00:09:59,920
were looking to do that

182
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,519
had were in the previous comprehensive

183
00:10:02,519 --> 00:10:06,160
plans were uh economically viable at

184
00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:08,920
that point

185
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,920
okay so you testified that um you looked

186
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,079
at Harbor Vista South did you also start

187
00:10:15,079 --> 00:10:17,399
Pro the process for the other properties

188
00:10:17,399 --> 00:10:20,519
the Redevelopment of those uh or the

189
00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:22,600
development of

190
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,600
those well we we have we had already

191
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,959
done some of the prep work sure okay so

192
00:10:27,959 --> 00:10:29,870
let's go to the Sate property okay

193
00:10:29,870 --> 00:10:31,800
[Music]

194
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,279
um the original proposal was for

195
00:10:34,279 --> 00:10:36,399
townhouse development and that didn't

196
00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,240
proceed you mean the condom you talking

197
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,880
about the 200 six six those were 32

198
00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,279
condominium units yeah that did not

199
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,760
proceed because of the financial crisis

200
00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,839
and you heard testimony about the work

201
00:10:50,839 --> 00:10:52,519
with the State Highway

202
00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:54,920
Administration yeah I did and did that

203
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,680
play a role in the timing of the

204
00:10:56,680 --> 00:10:59,639
Redevelopment of the um sted property as

205
00:10:59,639 --> 00:11:03,000
to why we didn't do it or I mean I know

206
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,920
that we put in the sidew the sidewalk

207
00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,800
the curb and gutter and that's when the

208
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,639
town we gave the town the easement for

209
00:11:11,639 --> 00:11:16,560
the pump so the water would uh you know

210
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,120
not the water wouldn't built up on SE

211
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,079
Street on the town Town Street there

212
00:11:23,079 --> 00:11:25,160
okay I want to correct Mr Donovan's

213
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,440
testimony no easement was given what

214
00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,959
he's referring to is

215
00:11:29,959 --> 00:11:32,399
if the project had proceeded there would

216
00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:34,839
have been an easement on the plat which

217
00:11:34,839 --> 00:11:36,720
is kind of typically H but since it

218
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:38,519
didn't go forward there is no easement

219
00:11:38,519 --> 00:11:39,480
for

220
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,880
that I just he said there was an

221
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,760
easement it's not actually an easement

222
00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,360
the town the pump is there pump is there

223
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:57,430
yeah so there's no written

224
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:00,040
easement I just I don't want him making

225
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,440
an unfactual statement and it's a legal

226
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,279
conclusion and he's thinking about an

227
00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:07,000
easement on a development plat rather

228
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,399
than an actual easement that actually

229
00:12:08,399 --> 00:12:09,920
got recorded I think the board

230
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,360
understands you continue

231
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:18,389
okay

232
00:12:18,399 --> 00:12:22,240
um so what led the rod and re to decide

233
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,639
to proceed with the multi family

234
00:12:23,639 --> 00:12:25,839
developments that were filed in on

235
00:12:25,839 --> 00:12:28,120
January 29th of 2021 that are the

236
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:34,310
subject of this appeal

237
00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,000
so I I think it was October or

238
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,639
November of

239
00:12:41,639 --> 00:12:43,920
2020 we had started watching the

240
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,800
Planning and Zoning meetings at that

241
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:49,399
time and there was discussion of

242
00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:53,760
using the state property which had been

243
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,000
in our family since

244
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:03,600
1936 about making that a Ark and it

245
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:08,199
uh it it raised some red flags uh very

246
00:13:08,199 --> 00:13:10,320
quickly you could

247
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,040
say so what did you do

248
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,040
then so at that point you

249
00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,920
know we had already done some of the

250
00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:24,120
prep work in anticipation of the

251
00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:26,760
development um then it was decided upon

252
00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:29,399
the best thing for us to do was to make

253
00:13:29,399 --> 00:13:34,760
application to the town for the zoning

254
00:13:34,770 --> 00:13:46,629
[Music]

255
00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:49,360
permit if you had gotten approval after

256
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,639
filing these five

257
00:13:51,639 --> 00:13:53,600
applications would you have been able to

258
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,519
afford to build all these properties at

259
00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:57,399
the same

260
00:13:57,399 --> 00:14:00,480
time uh find

261
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,759
would would not have been an issue we we

262
00:14:02,759 --> 00:14:04,440
had spoken to two

263
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,199
Banks

264
00:14:06,199 --> 00:14:15,389
um Community Bank and Westco

265
00:14:15,399 --> 00:14:17,240
bank

266
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,680
now we've had plenty of testimony about

267
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:21,839
the previous development plans and the

268
00:14:21,839 --> 00:14:23,519
work that was done on some of these

269
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:25,600
properties had you had the rotten reel

270
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,079
purchased Water and Sewer Capital

271
00:14:27,079 --> 00:14:29,120
connection charges for any of the

272
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,839
properties to serve those

273
00:14:30,839 --> 00:14:35,600
developments uh stet we did home place

274
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,320
and when we bought

275
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:45,279
uh uh the marina in 2005 it it it the

276
00:14:45,279 --> 00:14:48,759
previous owner had water and sewer

277
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,199
taps were transferred to the rod and

278
00:14:51,199 --> 00:14:53,399
reil with the property

279
00:14:53,399 --> 00:14:56,120
correct okay so I'm going to offer as

280
00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:57,800
exhibit

281
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,880
60 um

282
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,399
a letter from the

283
00:15:02,399 --> 00:15:04,680
town looks like Lorie Smith the

284
00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,399
treasurer dated April 14th

285
00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:12,399
2016 a letter from Leslie Porter the

286
00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:17,079
town treasur on November 19th

287
00:15:17,079 --> 00:15:20,120
2008 with an

288
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,440
attachment and the water sewer Capital

289
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,720
connection charge payment

290
00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,000
agreement with Fishing Creek Landings

291
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,319
Corp that's for the property he just

292
00:15:30,319 --> 00:15:32,160
referenced

293
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:34,440
um which is a

294
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,839
four make sure four-page document so

295
00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:55,150
I'll offer those three as exhibit

296
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,519
60 Mr Blitz what was the first uh date

297
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:18,710
of the first first letter top

298
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,199
letter for the so the board understands

299
00:16:22,199 --> 00:16:23,519
what

300
00:16:23,519 --> 00:16:25,800
those you should have a copy of them I

301
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:26,880
want to make sure you do because they

302
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:29,199
were handed out at the last time but um

303
00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:30,880
basically they show

304
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,360
the recreation of from the town of the

305
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,720
water and sewer Capital connection

306
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,680
charges that were paid for these

307
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:47,710
properties and were assigned to these

308
00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:56,509
properties

309
00:16:56,519 --> 00:17:01,079
which and the exhibit showed the payment

310
00:17:01,079 --> 00:17:03,240
of

311
00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,000
$480,000 in November 3rd of

312
00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,439
2008 for the payment of those Capital

313
00:17:09,439 --> 00:17:15,189
connection charges

314
00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:17,880
um so Mr Donovan according to these

315
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,600
documents the rod and

316
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,839
reel were the related parties like

317
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:24,039
Gerald and Fred at certain period of

318
00:17:24,039 --> 00:17:26,559
time before it had 28 Taps for the

319
00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:29,280
marina correct I believe so that's that

320
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:31,810
came from Fishing Creek Landings believe

321
00:17:31,810 --> 00:17:33,720
[Music]

322
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,039
so as part of that settlement you also

323
00:17:36,039 --> 00:17:38,160
took over the Wetland permits and the

324
00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:39,559
other permits for the development

325
00:17:39,559 --> 00:17:41,679
approvals that he had already obtained

326
00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:45,120
correct and those are what you used for

327
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,039
the mitigation work correct yes

328
00:17:48,039 --> 00:17:50,160
including the frag mighy removal we

329
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,039
talked about or Paul Woodburn y testify

330
00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:57,280
to and that document also states that

331
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,960
24 taps I that's a colloquialism for a

332
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:02,400
capital connection charge it's actually

333
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,039
a bad one just because there's something

334
00:18:04,039 --> 00:18:05,799
else in the water and sewer code called

335
00:18:05,799 --> 00:18:08,480
a tap but they've been called Taps for

336
00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,799
Generations

337
00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:14,679
um let's see uh that was um 24 Taps had

338
00:18:14,679 --> 00:18:16,559
been purchased uh Capital connection

339
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:18,440
charges had been purchased for Home

340
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,799
Place correct correct and there was

341
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:22,880
already one there for the single family

342
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,080
home correct

343
00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,400
okay and that 32 had been purchased for

344
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:34,029
stin Place

345
00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:37,400
correct and just clarifying for the

346
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,640
board you've already got this in

347
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,720
evidence the current application is to

348
00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,960
build only 11 units on Senate place now

349
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,400
not the full 32 at the time they

350
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,400
purchased them those there was a bigger

351
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,240
development couldn't go

352
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,710
there

353
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:03,590
um

354
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:05,159
and is it true that the rod and reel

355
00:19:05,159 --> 00:19:07,120
granted the town an easement underneath

356
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:10,039
the railway Trail end point um as it

357
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:12,200
comes across your property near the

358
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,120
harbor Vista West and along towards

359
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,840
Harbor Vista North yes and that was done

360
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,039
with the understanding that the town

361
00:19:20,039 --> 00:19:23,000
would build the sewer line underneath it

362
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,919
yes and there was already an existing

363
00:19:24,919 --> 00:19:27,679
water line correct yes and so those

364
00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:31,360
water and sewer lines were put in to

365
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:35,240
serve the harbor V West Property correct

366
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,559
those are

367
00:19:36,559 --> 00:19:40,000
town uh property that is a town

368
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,230
infrastructure yes

369
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,640
okay when in February of

370
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,799
2021 um you heard that the response to

371
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:56,600
your submissions the applications for

372
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,159
these five projects that there was a

373
00:19:59,159 --> 00:20:00,320
proposed

374
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,320
moratorium what if anything did you do

375
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,400
in

376
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,919
response so we asked to meet with

377
00:20:06,919 --> 00:20:11,960
um uh the folks here at Town Hall um you

378
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,480
met with Town Administrator the

379
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:23,110
mayor and the council except for um Mr

380
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:24,880
parck

381
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,320
and would you describe what those

382
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,080
meetings were like and what what was um

383
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,280
not said but what the discussion was

384
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:37,950
about yeah I

385
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:44,789
couldn't on

386
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:47,200
sustain you won't even answer that no

387
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:52,190
it's been

388
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,000
16 after the moratorium passed did you

389
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,360
hear anything else from the mayor and

390
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,080
town council members I did get an email

391
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,679
from uh Mr Morris

392
00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:06,919
okay so I'll show

393
00:21:06,919 --> 00:21:10,440
you it would be marked for exhibit 61 an

394
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,400
email from Greg Morris to Wesley Donovan

395
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,960
dated March 22nd 21 show that to Mr

396
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,559
Donovan to identify is that the email

397
00:21:18,559 --> 00:21:20,600
you received it

398
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:26,950
is or what's the objection you say

399
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,400
that a Council for representing of

400
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,960
council if this a communication between

401
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,480
one individual and another individual

402
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,039
that's fine there just that's becomes

403
00:21:38,039 --> 00:21:39,200
completely irrelevant for these

404
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,840
proceedings if indeed Mr Morris states

405
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,159
that indeed he's representing the

406
00:21:43,159 --> 00:21:45,360
council we're stting a formal council

407
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,559
opinion uh then that that becomes

408
00:21:47,559 --> 00:21:49,600
different too so but it sounds like this

409
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,120
is just

410
00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:52,799
personal

411
00:21:52,799 --> 00:21:56,840
so so as you can see by the email the

412
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,960
signature is Greg Morris Town Council

413
00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:01,559
he's

414
00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:04,720
communicating as Mr Donovan testified in

415
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,520
response to this

416
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,159
meeting and I think it's perfectly

417
00:22:10,159 --> 00:22:13,360
reasonable it's not hearsay it's comes

418
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:17,559
in as a letter from a council member

419
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:20,679
to a client about these devel about this

420
00:22:20,679 --> 00:22:22,640
development and about the moratorium I'm

421
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,600
tempted to allow this one hearsay is

422
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,840
still allowed here there's no hearsay

423
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,000
exception so well I I don't care comes

424
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,120
in I just want to say it comes in from

425
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,679
Greg Morris as opposed to any

426
00:22:33,679 --> 00:22:37,120
representation from Town

427
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,200
Council well I think I would agree with

428
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,520
that that is a single council member

429
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:45,600
doesn't represent the Town Council

430
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,400
absent a designation or something like

431
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,279
that so he's speaking as a council

432
00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:51,440
member not as on behalf of the whole

433
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,159
town Council Town Council is a body so

434
00:22:55,159 --> 00:22:56,679
this one is overruled we're going to

435
00:22:56,679 --> 00:23:22,669
allow this okay so that would exhibit

436
00:23:22,679 --> 00:23:25,559
61 and so just for the record I guess

437
00:23:25,559 --> 00:23:27,440
I'll read read this in it's not that

438
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,590
long of a letter

439
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,000
to from Greg Morris sent Monday March

440
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,279
22nd 2021 11:13 amm to Wesley Donovan

441
00:23:38,279 --> 00:23:41,520
regarding the subject is meeting request

442
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:42,880
hi West

443
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,960
Mary I was wondering regarding the Sate

444
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,480
Place project did I hear that certain un

445
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,320
USG site utilities had been completed

446
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,679
there Andor the grade had been raised to

447
00:23:56,679 --> 00:23:59,559
accommodate any previous approval and or

448
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:00,919
pump

449
00:24:00,919 --> 00:24:02,919
station has been installed in

450
00:24:02,919 --> 00:24:04,440
preparation for the

451
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,080
dwellings that's a question any of these

452
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,720
things seem to be well beyond shovels in

453
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:12,919
the ground to me even though you haven't

454
00:24:12,919 --> 00:24:15,400
started on the actual dwelling structure

455
00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,960
that's also a question uh not sure about

456
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,039
any previous status rep permitting for

457
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:23,799
this site I'm basically only trying to

458
00:24:23,799 --> 00:24:26,760
elevate any

459
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,679
consideration I wanted to ask ask you

460
00:24:28,679 --> 00:24:30,600
about the sale of any of the properties

461
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,360
as well not as a means to stop but

462
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:35,799
rather to have a better discussion and

463
00:24:35,799 --> 00:24:38,039
understanding moving forward and see if

464
00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:40,559
there were any options here for the

465
00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:43,679
town seems the town could be in Market

466
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:46,399
to purchase a lot outright undeveloped

467
00:24:46,399 --> 00:24:50,120
as a means to meet some of the Green

468
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:52,760
spaceopen Space

469
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,559
desires there is solid support for this

470
00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:58,559
generally speaking maybe these down

471
00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:00,919
toown lots are not for sale or might be

472
00:25:00,919 --> 00:25:02,960
cost prohibitive but I thought it was

473
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,960
important to ask the state Place may be

474
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,960
too far invested in un utilities other

475
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,600
for use as an open Green Space I'm not

476
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,279
sure despite what might have been

477
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:18,640
spitballed during the Planning and

478
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,240
Zoning well pnz meeting I cannot imagine

479
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,279
the town even thinking imminent domain

480
00:25:25,279 --> 00:25:27,840
is an option for any of these properties

481
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:33,430
wanted to to say that thanks Greg

482
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,480
Morris Mr donov did you reply to that

483
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:41,000
email or or no Mr Morris a response no I

484
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:42,960
did

485
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,720
not I also did not hear from any other

486
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,789
council

487
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:52,559
person did you keep track of the rod and

488
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:55,120
reel's expenses in preparing the site

489
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:57,120
plans for submission to the Planning and

490
00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:01,750
Zoning Commission

491
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:02,840
I'm sorry you're gonna have to restate

492
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,840
this whole thing okay I asked did you

493
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:07,480
take did you keep track of the rod and

494
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,480
reel's expenses in preparing the site

495
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,440
plans for submission to the Planning and

496
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,039
Zoning commission it's the objection to

497
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:14,279
this

498
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:16,600
one how much he

499
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,520
spent site plans he testified that that

500
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,240
was his decision they felt they were

501
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,159
viable to do that but difference doesn't

502
00:26:23,159 --> 00:26:25,000
make at this point for for for your

503
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,240
purposes uh the board does not have the

504
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,039
authority to Grant damages at all if

505
00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:31,399
he's going to claim that he was damaged

506
00:26:31,399 --> 00:26:33,000
in some way great we have another

507
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,120
hearing have you more appropriate board

508
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,600
but you guys don't have any dages or or

509
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,960
consider damages with regard to any type

510
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,360
decision the board understands that um

511
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,799
as this testimony is is not close enough

512
00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:50,279
to repetitious yet to Warrant um

513
00:26:50,279 --> 00:26:52,000
blocking this from coming in so the

514
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,640
objection is overruled please continue

515
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:57,640
okay so Mr Donovan I'm going to show you

516
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,760
a um list of expenses it says it's

517
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,240
labeled soft costs associated with site

518
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960
plan preparation rod and real Inc which

519
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:09,600
I've marked for identification is is

520
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,640
exhibit

521
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:14,080
62 and ask did you prepare the

522
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,080
information for the preparation of this

523
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,399
document yes are are those numbers

524
00:27:18,399 --> 00:27:21,190
accurate

525
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,960
yes and the total according to this is

526
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,480
$172,100

527
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:54,669
n50 correct okay I offer that as exhibit

528
00:27:54,679 --> 00:27:57,440
62 Mr Donovan you've heard during our

529
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,240
presentation in this case how the

530
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,080
moratorium was passed by a resolution

531
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,000
correct yes

532
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,000
sir and you've heard how under the

533
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,480
charter the right to take ordinances to

534
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,880
referendum is available yes sir do you

535
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:13,399
have any personal experience with

536
00:28:13,399 --> 00:28:21,669
organizing a referendum petition I

537
00:28:21,679 --> 00:28:24,399
do it is not completely irrelevant we

538
00:28:24,399 --> 00:28:28,200
went through how the right of

539
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,840
petitioning a change or effect to zoning

540
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,159
is guaranteed under Maryland law the

541
00:28:34,159 --> 00:28:35,880
right to referendum is guaranteed by

542
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Maryland law but in town Charter it's

543
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,120
only available for an ordinance it's not

544
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:43,120
available for a resolution and we're

545
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,960
just G to overrule over uh objections

546
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,159
overr please continue okay so did you

547
00:28:47,159 --> 00:28:48,519
have any personal experience with

548
00:28:48,519 --> 00:28:51,000
organizing a referendum petition yes I

549
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,080
do what is your experience describe it

550
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,960
please I uh I organized a referendum

551
00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:03,039
about the uh water and sewer rates for

552
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:05,679
that were getting applied here in town

553
00:29:05,679 --> 00:29:08,120
and when was

554
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,200
that I don't remember the year I know

555
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,840
that uh Bruce wall was the

556
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:19,559
mayor um and

557
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:23,200
um uh I can remember remember Jeff crin

558
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,679
being a council member

559
00:29:25,679 --> 00:29:28,440
because I I just remember that part of

560
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,440
it I I couldn't tell the year

561
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,679
okay

562
00:29:33,679 --> 00:29:35,720
um but it was the previous

563
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,760
administration okay was it successfully

564
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,480
accepted as a petition for referendum

565
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,279
yes and thereafter was that question

566
00:29:44,279 --> 00:29:46,279
that was raised by referendum eventually

567
00:29:46,279 --> 00:29:50,159
voted upon in election by Town

568
00:29:50,159 --> 00:29:53,720
citizens say that again after the

569
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,120
question was raised by the referendum

570
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,799
was the question posed to be answered by

571
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,559
a vote of the citizens at the next

572
00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:06,039
election uh it I believe so

573
00:30:06,039 --> 00:30:10,919
yes was that successful yeah okay no

574
00:30:10,919 --> 00:30:15,269
further questions Mr

575
00:30:15,279 --> 00:30:17,880
Donovan uh Mr P would you like to

576
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,679
cross-examine

577
00:30:19,679 --> 00:30:25,080
yes so um Mr Donovan uh you stated um

578
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,440
basically your name and address what is

579
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,960
your position with

580
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,039
r president so you are President you are

581
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:35,240
the officer of

582
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,080
RR yes so uh and Mr Woodburn was the

583
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,080
engineer the time of this project

584
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,760
correct and was there uh any other

585
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,279
Engineers other than Mr Woodburn working

586
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:50,360
on this

587
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,880
project uh Ben Dyer was the only civil

588
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,919
engineer and that's who uh Paul worked

589
00:30:56,919 --> 00:30:59,279
for did you have any other Engineers

590
00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:02,159
other than Mr Mr Whitburn working on

591
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:05,279
this project working on this

592
00:31:05,279 --> 00:31:08,559
project not that I recall now okay so

593
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:14,840
basically um you stated that this was uh family property and for his home

594
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,600
place in state property that was

595
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:20,269
purchased in the

596
00:31:20,279 --> 00:31:23,880
1936 uh State Property was correct and

597
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,440
it was by your great-grandfather and it

598
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:30,269
was then transferred to uh RNR

599
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,600
correct and you know you and so with

600
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:37,029
regard to

601
00:31:37,039 --> 00:31:41,070
the sums that were

602
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,029
paid

603
00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:48,320
and and you stated the

604
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:50,760
um with regard to I believe it was to

605
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,519
the tap fees that was paid by

606
00:31:55,519 --> 00:31:58,519
uh and who are they paid who's a paid by

607
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:00,960
to to darald and

608
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,360
Frederick he should have the exhibit

609
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,039
shown to him when he's if you're asking

610
00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:06,840
him to I don't have it in front of me

611
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:16,750
sir are you

612
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,000
hear he what I'm gon I'm going to come

613
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,159
back to that one but uh okay so

614
00:32:21,159 --> 00:32:23,399
basically you uh and you admitted based

615
00:32:23,399 --> 00:32:25,120
upon Mr Woodburn's testimony and also

616
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,440
you testified you had the uh perid for

617
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,919
all of these uh these projects back in

618
00:32:31,919 --> 00:32:33,600
uh

619
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,720
2006 no I I didn't say that and when did

620
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,679
you have the projects for uh permits for

621
00:32:39,679 --> 00:32:41,760
these

622
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:43,399
projects

623
00:32:43,399 --> 00:32:48,960
so we had the approval for senet for 32

624
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:53,430
condominiums that was

625
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,830
2006

626
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,000
um we when then we had Harbor Vista

627
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:06,110
South in

628
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,919
2016

629
00:33:08,919 --> 00:33:12,159
um and I forget how many how many units

630
00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:15,240
that was for at the time right

631
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:19,480
now and then uh speak up and speak

632
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,200
directly into the microphone so they can

633
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,840
hear you sure um those are the two I

634
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,480
remember right now okay let's let's go

635
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,880
over the um sted so in

636
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,399
2006 uh you had a zoning permit for sted

637
00:33:35,399 --> 00:33:39,399
is that correct yep and that in fact uh

638
00:33:39,399 --> 00:33:42,440
it was even renewed uh one time and I

639
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,000
can't tell the day it looks like about a

640
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,480
year later would that be correct sounds

641
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,760
right so then uh there was a decision

642
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:54,200
not to move forward in fact um uh and

643
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,919
then because 2008 financial crisis were

644
00:33:57,919 --> 00:33:59,120
any other

645
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,240
decision what I wrote down was did not

646
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,240
make sense to move forward isn't that

647
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,760
correct correct because of the

648
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,359
financial uh crisis we were going

649
00:34:11,359 --> 00:34:14,280
through as a country okay and so um and

650
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,800
in 2009 there were the same market

651
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,440
conditions uh where it did not benefit

652
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:22,560
you to go forward correct so that was

653
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:24,919
your decision not to go forward is that

654
00:34:24,919 --> 00:34:28,480
correct yes it was not the town in any

655
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040
way uh influence influencing that

656
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:32,119
decision was

657
00:34:32,119 --> 00:34:35,839
it no it wasn't the state was

658
00:34:35,839 --> 00:34:39,560
it no okay so in essence that was your

659
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,879
financial and individual decision not to

660
00:34:41,879 --> 00:34:45,200
move forward with these uh projects and

661
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:46,560
the

662
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,790
permits

663
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:55,599
yeah so then in um approximately

664
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:58,119
2015 uh and in fact you know that that

665
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:01,160
applies to all the projects right I

666
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,240
mean okay so

667
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,920
what you had permits for all of these

668
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,480
projects no what projects didn't you

669
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,800
have permits for Harbor Vista

670
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,920
West Harbor

671
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,640
Vista in Harbor Vista

672
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,440
North home

673
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,200
place okay so you did not have it for

674
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:26,040
Harbor Vista West Harbor Vista north and

675
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,359
home place

676
00:35:28,359 --> 00:35:30,760
correct okay and but you have permits

677
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,680
for state and uh trying to

678
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:39,349
read herb Vista South

679
00:35:39,359 --> 00:35:44,040
okay tenant was 2006 10 years later was

680
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,000
Harbor Vista South okay so basically um

681
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,000
uh for the three of the projects you

682
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,440
never did have zoning

683
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,920
permits correct okay so the town never

684
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,240
approved anything with regard to those

685
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:00,520
three

686
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:04,440
projects not a zoning permit no okay so

687
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:06,680
um uh and then the other two projects I

688
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,280
want to make sure the record is clear

689
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,280
here those were your decisions and they

690
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:12,200
were financial decisions as to not not

691
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,040
to go forward is that

692
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:19,240
correct yes and then uh uh you stated

693
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:23,319
that there were sha State Highway played

694
00:36:23,319 --> 00:36:26,560
a role uh with regard to certain

695
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,400
development

696
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,829
at the time they were raising route

697
00:36:34,839 --> 00:36:38,319
261 okay and uh basically the the and

698
00:36:38,319 --> 00:36:40,040
you said was there any type of formal

699
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,119
agreement with the town or State Highway

700
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:46,280
with regard to any development rights

701
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:47,359
that you would be entitled to with

702
00:36:47,359 --> 00:36:50,319
regard to that development no not that

703
00:36:50,319 --> 00:36:53,800
I'm aware of no so so the state was

704
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,160
doing it but there was no agreement with

705
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:58,560
you and words that the state would in

706
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,800
any way do anything to benefit you or

707
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,400
that you would receive any benefit from

708
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,400
that no and uh and with regard to the

709
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,480
pump which was installed as a matter of

710
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,359
fact that pump was a benefit to your

711
00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:14,599
other projects isn't that correct yeah

712
00:37:14,599 --> 00:37:17,520
okay then what was the pump there for it

713
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,599
kept the uh the flooding off of C Street

714
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:22,520
from what I

715
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,359
recall and did the uh uh who paid for

716
00:37:26,359 --> 00:37:28,880
that pump

717
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,240
town taxpayers at Chesapeake Beach the

718
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,280
town paid for that yeah so rod reel was

719
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,000
not in any way a harmed for you know

720
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,430
with regard to that

721
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,920
installation hared no so and uh so and

722
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,240
you testified that in approximately

723
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:49,319
October of

724
00:37:49,319 --> 00:37:51,839
2020 uh you saw various planning of

725
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:54,839
zoning meetings uh which were going on

726
00:37:54,839 --> 00:37:57,160
in the town yeah I think it was October

727
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,760
and I it it was one of them one of those

728
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:03,640
months okay and you saw where indeed the

729
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,720
uh uh attitudes with regard to the

730
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:07,839
Planning Commission was changing with

731
00:38:07,839 --> 00:38:09,640
regard to

732
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:11,839
development no what I said is they

733
00:38:11,839 --> 00:38:14,200
started taking talking about State

734
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,079
Property which had been in our family

735
00:38:16,079 --> 00:38:17,319
since

736
00:38:17,319 --> 00:38:22,030
1936 and making it a

737
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:26,560
park okay that's one of the things they were they were talking about that

738
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,000
absolutely and then so uh and that that

739
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:31,920
would be part of the uh zoning

740
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,720
administrator was planning on that

741
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,720
also he was at the meeting okay now Mr

742
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,240
uh and and you of course sat here

743
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:41,240
through the testimony of Mr Woodburn

744
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:42,920
right yes sir and you sat here through

745
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,040
his entire testimony yes sir and Mr

746
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:51,720
Woodburn testified that in no time did he sit down with zoning Min

747
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:54,359
administrator to talk about any zoning

748
00:38:54,359 --> 00:38:55,599
changes that were coming do you remember

749
00:38:55,599 --> 00:38:57,640
he said that I do remember him saying

750
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,800
that ask so if indeed you have something

751
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,839
going on that may affect your property

752
00:39:02,839 --> 00:39:05,560
why not sit down and talk to the zoning

753
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,640
administrator you could watch them live

754
00:39:07,640 --> 00:39:12,319
on sitting at home and on zoom and

755
00:39:12,319 --> 00:39:15,599
YouTube uh you know that's when we first

756
00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:17,880
saw it we we didn't have to talk to

757
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,400
anyone it was a public meeting well I

758
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,520
mean after the meeting and you knew what

759
00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:24,880
they were discussing at no time did you

760
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:26,040
sit out and talk to the zoning

761
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:27,160
administrator with regard to the zoning

762
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,800
check no okay in fact you didn't talk to

763
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,839
him about any of these properties no

764
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:35,000
okay so in fact uh Mr Woodburn testified

765
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,400
that you never went to any of the

766
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,560
Planning Commission meetings you know to

767
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:40,160
discuss any particular Zoning for these

768
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:45,119
properties objection just because you talked about what Mr Woodburn talked

769
00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:46,560
about and then

770
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,359
Mr Donovan going to those

771
00:39:49,359 --> 00:39:52,040
meetings Mr Woodburn testified that he

772
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,319
didn't go to those meetings so don't

773
00:39:54,319 --> 00:39:56,680
talk about you can ask Mr Donovan

774
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,599
whether he went to those meetings but

775
00:39:58,599 --> 00:40:01,079
don't refer to Mr D Mr Woodburn because

776
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:03,160
Mr Woodburn didn't talk about Wesley

777
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,119
Donovan going to those

778
00:40:05,119 --> 00:40:09,079
meetings but M you heard Mr Woodburn say

779
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:12,040
that in his testimony didn't you jaction

780
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,599
can we restate this you heard Mr

781
00:40:14,599 --> 00:40:17,599
Whitburn testify with uh earlier that he

782
00:40:17,599 --> 00:40:20,640
did not go uh and represent you at any

783
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:22,599
of the Planning Commission hearings he

784
00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:24,640
definitely did not represent us at any

785
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,920
of those meetings and did you go to any

786
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,640
planning Comm hearings uh I don't recall

787
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,520
I remember watching them but I don't

788
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,000
remember if I that was during Co at the

789
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,560
height of it so but this you're the

790
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,520
president of rod reel isn't that correct

791
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,920
absolutely and uh and all of a sudden

792
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,440
you become aware that indeed your

793
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,280
properties could be affected yes and you

794
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,520
made the decision not to do anything

795
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,560
with to talk people he didn't say he

796
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,680
didn't do anything okay well I know that

797
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,319
you answered then uh let's restate that

798
00:40:55,319 --> 00:40:57,960
one my question is you did not go before

799
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,640
the Planning Commission at all with

800
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,680
regard to possible rezonings of your

801
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,880
property did you no did you do anything

802
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,000
to protect your interest we did what we

803
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,480
filed five site plans for development of

804
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:18,040
those properties okay and uh uh so that was your plan to in essence just

805
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,160
file these applications and that's what

806
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,480
all you were planning on doing we had a

807
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,480
right to do it okay and uh do you have

808
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,119
any facts with you today that any of all

809
00:41:30,119 --> 00:41:32,760
or all of those site plan applications

810
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:34,400
would have been approved

811
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,839
objection calls for massive

812
00:41:37,839 --> 00:41:39,960
speculation that that becomes if he's

813
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,560
going to testify that indeed he filed it

814
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:44,079
okay well let me ask you what was the

815
00:41:44,079 --> 00:41:46,960
purpose of you filing the

816
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,480
applications to develop the

817
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,240
properties and that goes to my last

818
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,720
question

819
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,359
of what gives you the idea that those

820
00:41:56,359 --> 00:41:59,630
would have been approved for

821
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:01,760
development what was

822
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,040
submitted we were allowed to do I had no

823
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,599
reason to believe that they would not

824
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:11,200
have been approved and uh but you do not

825
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,030
know that they

826
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:26,109
would I do not know that they wouldn't

827
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:32,840
either I wish I would have found

828
00:42:32,850 --> 00:42:43,549
[Music]

829
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:47,040
out so I'm uh looking at the uh memo

830
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,440
that uh we were discussing earlier dated

831
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:51,319
November 3rd

832
00:42:51,319 --> 00:42:54,160
208 and it talks about the 24 Capital

833
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,640
connection fees you're aware that Mr

834
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,440
Blitz was talking about this earlier yes

835
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,960
sir okay and this was in other words

836
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,800
received from Gerald and Frederick

837
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,760
Donovan show in the document if you're

838
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,400
going to refer to a do I mean you you

839
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,640
know what I'm talking about right you

840
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,119
can present him evidence if you're going

841
00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:14,200
to ask a specific question I'd like to

842
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,950
see

843
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:21,880
it okay okay and uh neither Gerald or

844
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,440
Frederick Donovan uh were they ever

845
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,960
members of uh RNR applicant in this case

846
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520
yes they were okay and uh were they

847
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,079
members in

848
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:35,599
2008

849
00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:39,280
Yes what were their positions in

850
00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:42,160
2008

851
00:43:42,160 --> 00:43:45,480
uh they were the

852
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:50,359
owners they were the owners of the when was the applicant what is the

853
00:43:50,359 --> 00:43:52,800
formal title of the applicant here rod

854
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,480
and reel Incorporated Inc Inc okay when

855
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,870
was Rod and re Inc actually

856
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,559
Incorporated I don't have that off I

857
00:44:03,559 --> 00:44:04,920
don't have that data off the top of my

858
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,800
head sir come of the

859
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,830
year

860
00:44:08,830 --> 00:44:19,190
[Music]

861
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,559
no can you uh make sure that I

862
00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:25,280
understand can you explain to me why you

863
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,440
did not in any way uh meet with you now

864
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:31,440
meet with the the town zoning

865
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,520
administrator or the Planning Commission

866
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,480
with regard to uh your understanding

867
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:42,109
could be a rezoning of your

868
00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,400
properties why we didn't meet with them

869
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,950
there was no need

870
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,839
to and why

871
00:44:52,839 --> 00:44:55,559
not they hadn't passed anything they

872
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:59,000
hadn't uh

873
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,440
they hadn't passed the new comprehensive

874
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,160
plan at that point well you you were

875
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,920
aware that they were reviewing it for

876
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,960
possible adoption right yeah so in

877
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,319
essence you made that decision not to

878
00:45:14,319 --> 00:45:16,119
meet with them knowing that indeed it

879
00:45:16,119 --> 00:45:18,119
could possibly adopted which would have

880
00:45:18,119 --> 00:45:20,680
changed the zoning of your

881
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,750
property cor

882
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,200
right and uh and you did not ever meet

883
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:31,280
with uh Town Council either before their

884
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,160
adopting adoption of the uh

885
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,079
comprehensive plan objection he

886
00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:40,440
testified that he did meet with members

887
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,559
that that occurred slight uh in February

888
00:45:43,559 --> 00:45:47,079
of 2021 the comprehensive plan wasn't

889
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:48,480
passed for another year and a half or

890
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,760
two okay ex uh then and you actually met

891
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,440
with uh the Town Council where did you

892
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,559
meet with individual members individual

893
00:45:56,559 --> 00:45:59,680
members okay and uh and what was your

894
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,440
purpose of of that

895
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,920
meeting uh uh is this the same meeting

896
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,079
we've we we had overruled or sustained

897
00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:08,760
10 minutes ago so it's a different

898
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,079
meeting I'm I'm I've lost the timeline

899
00:46:11,079 --> 00:46:12,800
of this it would be the same meeting I

900
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,400
just didn't know that

901
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,359
you sustained retion about that meeting

902
00:46:17,359 --> 00:46:18,760
but maybe you did there was a question

903
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,160
on a meeting of of meeting Town staff

904
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:22,559
who it sounded like there was other

905
00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:26,359
legal counsel in that was not true okay

906
00:46:26,359 --> 00:46:29,839
continue the question but these are the meetings that

907
00:46:29,839 --> 00:46:31,839
they were talking about which was they

908
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:33,119
asked to meet with the mayor and Town

909
00:46:33,119 --> 00:46:36,160
Council publicly and well no they were

910
00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:37,880
one-on-one meetings okay and he

911
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,920
testified that the only one that didn't

912
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,640
was Mr parck I believe councilman parck

913
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:43,880
is that the right

914
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,720
pronunciation

915
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,760
yes we're going to allow this my mistake

916
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:49,480
on

917
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:53,319
them okay so in essence you met with the

918
00:46:53,319 --> 00:46:57,319
council uh except for Mr partic Right

919
00:46:57,319 --> 00:46:59,920
and what did you and this was before or

920
00:46:59,920 --> 00:47:02,160
after the Planning Commission had

921
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,720
adopted the resolution adopted their

922
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:06,760
decision with regard to a recommendation

923
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:10,400
of the resoning section do you know the

924
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,599
timeline as far as the

925
00:47:12,599 --> 00:47:17,079
meeting uh it was February of

926
00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:21,920
21 February of 21 yes sir okay and um uh

927
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:24,200
and what was what did you discuss in the

928
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,520
meeting the moratorium

929
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,160
so it was the moratorium as opposed to

930
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:31,880
the

931
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,319
rezoning yeah because the rezoning they

932
00:47:35,319 --> 00:47:38,920
were a long way away from

933
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,839
uh uh doing the comp plan at that

934
00:47:42,839 --> 00:47:46,880
point they had they had many many months

935
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,599
still to go on resoning I'd like to

936
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:51,599
pause here I'd like to know uh if we're

937
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:52,920
talking about this meeting with people

938
00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:55,200
attend can we list who attended this

939
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,839
meeting one more time for

940
00:47:57,839 --> 00:47:58,920
who were the main parties in this

941
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,280
meeting they were separate meetings with

942
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:05,200
individuals Mr Donovan maybe just I

943
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,680
don't want to interrupt Mr um pounds

944
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,760
cross but just to help with the board

945
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:14,400
you had meetings with separate people

946
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:16,760
can you list those people

947
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,680
out that you met and and who else on

948
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:21,880
your side maybe was at present at those

949
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,520
meetings as best as you can recall this

950
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,400
is for the sure the board themselves it

951
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,400
was uh myself and Mary atlantum then we

952
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:32,880
met with individually um the mayor Town

953
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,640
Administrator on a zoom I

954
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,480
believe and then we met

955
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,359
with um each council member except for

956
00:48:42,359 --> 00:48:45,720
Mr paric so we met with

957
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,040
uh oh my goodness I'm going to forget

958
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,000
Peggy's last name

959
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,559
um what is it Hartman thank you uh we

960
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:57,920
met with councilwoman

961
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Hartman uh councilman

962
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,040
Morris um Mr

963
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:09,720
jorski uh councilwoman Bodine and

964
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:11,440
um my

965
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,440
goodness Mr

966
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,160
Fink these were individual or this was a

967
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,270
collective all

968
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,960
individual okay and and I can tell you

969
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,480
thank you because that clarifies so in

970
00:49:24,480 --> 00:49:26,920
essence they were not meeting as a

971
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:30,440
council oh no they were just meeting as

972
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,799
individuals they were meeting on behalf

973
00:49:32,799 --> 00:49:36,880
of town business but it was not uh uh

974
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:40,000
Quorum if that's what you're it was all

975
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:41,200
oneon-one

976
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,680
okay they were meeting as a to hear the

977
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,960
concerns of a constituent would that be

978
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,710
fair that's more than fair

979
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:55,240
yes well the reason I say that and and I

980
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:57,359
think you said it too this was not in

981
00:49:57,359 --> 00:50:02,240
any way Town business that they were

982
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,000
conducting it was dealing with town the

983
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,400
town issue at the at the

984
00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:11,200
time but it was a one-on-one meeting

985
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,319
okay so it goes back to where I started

986
00:50:13,319 --> 00:50:16,240
all of this you did not meet with the

987
00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,359
Town Council as a council to discuss

988
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:23,200
your concerns with regard to the

989
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,280
resoning in

990
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:28,870
2021 in

991
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:32,920
February uh I wouldn't say that I

992
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,799
mean I think I gave lots of public

993
00:50:35,799 --> 00:50:37,480
testimony

994
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,599
after March of

995
00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:43,040
2021 here in this room

996
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,920
publicly and but but did you actually

997
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,359
discuss with Council the

998
00:50:50,359 --> 00:50:52,359
resoning

999
00:50:52,359 --> 00:50:57,240
when at any time yes publicly yes

1000
00:50:57,240 --> 00:50:58,520
what did you tell

1001
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,960
councel I'm not going to remember ver

1002
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:02,319
verb

1003
00:51:02,319 --> 00:51:04,160
adom

1004
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:07,119
but I disagree with some of the

1005
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:10,839
decisions and some of them I agreed

1006
00:51:10,839 --> 00:51:12,960
with you say some of the decisions is

1007
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:14,319
that the Planning Commission or is that

1008
00:51:14,319 --> 00:51:16,319
the council would have been

1009
00:51:16,319 --> 00:51:25,549
both

1010
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:33,880
and you're certainly aware that uh

1011
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,119
rezonings would change the use of

1012
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:39,200
properties and as an experienced

1013
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,319
developer well let start you are an

1014
00:51:41,319 --> 00:51:42,280
experienced

1015
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,480
developer objection would you classify

1016
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,040
yourself as an experienced

1017
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,000
developer is that are you g to do both

1018
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,400
of those questions I want to object to

1019
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,680
the first one not the second one well

1020
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:53,119
I'm making the Assumption as the

1021
00:51:53,119 --> 00:51:55,119
president of a development company that

1022
00:51:55,119 --> 00:51:56,920
he's experienced developer maybe that

1023
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:58,000
was a bad assumption there's no

1024
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:59,520
testimony that it's a development

1025
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,960
company it's not so so Mr uh have you

1026
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,549
developed other properties

1027
00:52:07,559 --> 00:52:10,799
before uh you could say that sure okay

1028
00:52:10,799 --> 00:52:12,559
and how many properties would you

1029
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:14,079
estimate that you've developed can you

1030
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:15,880
clarify whether you're asking about him

1031
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,160
doing it as the rod and reel or him

1032
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,520
personally because he has other business

1033
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,319
interests and things like that have you

1034
00:52:22,319 --> 00:52:24,680
been involved or you individually with

1035
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:28,400
regard to any company or any entity uh

1036
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,240
that has indeed developed

1037
00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:36,480
property sure yes and so uh how many

1038
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,920
properties would you be involved in or

1039
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:40,880
you were involved in a company or an

1040
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,520
entity that developed

1041
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,720
properties now I wouldn't say I'm an

1042
00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:49,760
experienced developer nor would I say

1043
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:52,160
um I

1044
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,839
know I know a lot about development but

1045
00:52:55,839 --> 00:52:57,040
um

1046
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:58,880
I would say a handful I don't know the

1047
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,520
exact number okay fair enough well as in

1048
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,480
your experience a developer have you

1049
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,799
seen or heard or understand rezonings

1050
00:53:06,799 --> 00:53:08,440
that

1051
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,319
occur I've been learning as I go with

1052
00:53:11,319 --> 00:53:12,760
rezoning

1053
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,549
and and all of it's been here with the

1054
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:19,280
town

1055
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,640
then that's learning as you go that's

1056
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:24,319
fine but so were you aware that indeed a

1057
00:53:24,319 --> 00:53:27,720
resoning process means property

1058
00:53:27,720 --> 00:53:29,280
resed

1059
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,280
sure and so I want to make sure that

1060
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:34,240
indeed you're aware of that and yet you

1061
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,799
chose not to meet with the planning

1062
00:53:36,799 --> 00:53:39,160
administrator or the Planning Commission

1063
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:41,280
with regard to a possible resoning of

1064
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,160
your

1065
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:51,470
property

1066
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,799
correct and

1067
00:53:53,799 --> 00:53:57,400
Mr Woodburn t testified a number of

1068
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:59,880
times with regard to resoning uh when we

1069
00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:01,880
discussed that and he used the phrase a

1070
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,680
number of times of things change you

1071
00:54:04,680 --> 00:54:07,119
remember him saying that uh

1072
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:11,960
vaguely and based I'm G to ask you either as

1073
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,720
your experience in development or in

1074
00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:17,200
your experience as a businessman do

1075
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,319
things change every day and things

1076
00:54:21,319 --> 00:54:23,640
change has things have things changed in

1077
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,319
chesp Beach yes and things Chang with

1078
00:54:27,319 --> 00:54:30,079
regard to uh flooding which may or may

1079
00:54:30,079 --> 00:54:32,480
not be occurring in chesp

1080
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,280
Beach yes and and you aware of uh

1081
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,839
potential climate change and flooding

1082
00:54:37,839 --> 00:54:41,480
issues which may be uh proed to be

1083
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:45,799
occurring in ches Beach I am and uh one

1084
00:54:45,799 --> 00:54:47,720
of the things that the town wanted to

1085
00:54:47,720 --> 00:54:49,720
address is possible flooding issues are

1086
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:51,559
you aware of that

1087
00:54:51,559 --> 00:54:54,839
action it's not the town okay got to be

1088
00:54:54,839 --> 00:54:56,960
specific about who's doing what

1089
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:58,839
we'll allow it go ahead please answer

1090
00:54:58,839 --> 00:55:01,319
the question or restate if you would Mr

1091
00:55:01,319 --> 00:55:02,920
pounds if you just say it again sure and

1092
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:05,440
you're aware that indeed uh the town may

1093
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,119
be uh addressing flooding issues and

1094
00:55:08,119 --> 00:55:09,920
changes which may occur are you aware of

1095
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,599
that I am and are you aware that there

1096
00:55:12,599 --> 00:55:14,280
was concern with regard to your

1097
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:16,160
properties okay and we can go through

1098
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:18,160
them if you want to regarding potential

1099
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:19,960
for flooding on your

1100
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:23,720
properties I am aware of that and so in

1101
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:25,559
essence let's make sure we understand

1102
00:55:25,559 --> 00:55:30,760
each other you want this board to to

1103
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,839
assist in the approval of resoning or of

1104
00:55:33,839 --> 00:55:35,920
a development

1105
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,559
applications for you to put houses on

1106
00:55:39,559 --> 00:55:41,280
property which the town is classifying

1107
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,599
as being flooding objection there's no testimony about classifications what

1108
00:55:46,599 --> 00:55:49,559
they was this is a gray area we're gonna

1109
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:51,920
uh you can consider how you'd like to

1110
00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:54,599
restate that or we can I get that but

1111
00:55:54,599 --> 00:55:56,400
you you testified earlier that indeed

1112
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:58,000
you're aware that your property is

1113
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,559
indeed classifying as being uh in a

1114
00:56:00,559 --> 00:56:03,480
flood plane flood

1115
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,319
plane not all of them but yes that's Mr

1116
00:56:07,319 --> 00:56:10,549
and Mr Woodburn said

1117
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:13,520
that I don't recall him saying that home

1118
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:15,760
place was in a flood plane it's the

1119
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,240
highest point in

1120
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:18,920
town

1121
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:25,240
but uh yes some of them are in the flood

1122
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:28,000
plane

1123
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:31,039
and and so basically you know your

1124
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:33,359
testimony was that things change every

1125
00:56:33,359 --> 00:56:35,799
day that's what you just said they do

1126
00:56:35,799 --> 00:56:39,000
and things change uh both politically

1127
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,549
things

1128
00:56:41,559 --> 00:56:44,240
change you could say that sir and and

1129
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:47,440
with regard to uh the use of properties

1130
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,829
things

1131
00:56:49,839 --> 00:56:52,319
change correct and with regard to

1132
00:56:52,319 --> 00:56:55,160
environmental issues things change

1133
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,319
correct and with with regard to the the

1134
00:56:57,319 --> 00:57:01,480
feelings of citizens things change yes

1135
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:06,920
so in essence uh with regard to the

1136
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,640
opinions of Mr z uh the zoning

1137
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,799
administrator did you contact and you

1138
00:57:11,799 --> 00:57:13,400
never met with him with regard to any

1139
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,400
possible changes that he saw with regard

1140
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:23,510
to the town that may affect your

1141
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,960
property can you state that again sure

1142
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:27,760
with regard to the town uh the Town

1143
00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,880
Administrator uh you never met with him

1144
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,200
with regard to a possible zoning change

1145
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:38,230
with regard to his Pro your

1146
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,319
property not that I recall no never met

1147
00:57:41,319 --> 00:57:42,839
with the Planning

1148
00:57:42,839 --> 00:57:46,960
Commission no so uh and were and you

1149
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:49,680
were aware that indeed they were going

1150
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,480
to be classifying your property in the

1151
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:52,920
flood plane were you aware of that

1152
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:55,319
objection there's no testimony of that

1153
00:57:55,319 --> 00:57:57,680
the whole town is is within the flood

1154
00:57:57,680 --> 00:57:59,000
almost the whole town is in the flood

1155
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,319
plane

1156
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:02,440
ordinance you keep on using the term

1157
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,839
flood plane that's all these properties

1158
00:58:04,839 --> 00:58:07,119
it flood plane doesn't mean you don't

1159
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:10,400
develop as Mr Woodburn testified you

1160
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,319
address the consequences of that

1161
00:58:12,319 --> 00:58:14,119
development almost always by raising the

1162
00:58:14,119 --> 00:58:17,160
grade so that you're out of the flood

1163
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:21,319
plane and so the point is you're asking

1164
00:58:21,319 --> 00:58:23,520
him

1165
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:26,760
about the the conclusion

1166
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,039
of somebody whether it's the planning

1167
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:30,160
and Zone I think you said the Planning

1168
00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:32,200
and Zoning commission about the flood

1169
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:33,799
plane they weren't making anything about

1170
00:58:33,799 --> 00:58:35,000
the flood plane they don't control the

1171
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:40,200
flood plane federal government does they the Town Council would pass a has a

1172
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,400
resolution with or I mean an ordinance

1173
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:47,160
stat to with respect to um the buffer

1174
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,039
that's added onto the flood plane for

1175
00:58:49,039 --> 00:58:52,200
grade but beyond that that's not

1176
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,039
something the commission so knowledge of

1177
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:58,400
whether there's known flood risks on the

1178
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,640
properties I believe is what Mr pounds

1179
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:03,960
is getting at is that correct and what

1180
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,359
he did about it as far as trying to

1181
00:59:06,359 --> 00:59:07,680
protect his property but he was asking

1182
00:59:07,680 --> 00:59:09,039
about the conclusions of the Planning

1183
00:59:09,039 --> 00:59:10,440
and Zoning Commission on this they

1184
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,480
hadn't concluded this until I guess the

1185
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,079
comprehensive plan was adopted the fact

1186
00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:19,160
of the flood plan or flood plans

1187
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:21,200
or we're not discussing that the

1188
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,000
question is is there any

1189
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,559
awareness being in a flood zone

1190
00:59:26,559 --> 00:59:29,400
is that is that a fair assessment of

1191
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,079
corre correct okay that that objection

1192
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:33,319
is

1193
00:59:33,319 --> 00:59:35,280
overruled if you'd please restate the

1194
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,599
question again sure and with regard to

1195
00:59:37,599 --> 00:59:40,559
the uh and you were aware and in fact

1196
00:59:40,559 --> 00:59:42,839
I'm going to accept and ask that Mr

1197
00:59:42,839 --> 00:59:45,119
blitz's statement now be accepted in the

1198
00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:46,960
record when he said almost the whole

1199
00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,599
town is in the flood plane okay and uh

1200
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:51,599
we're going to accept that now as

1201
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:53,200
testimony which is in the record no it

1202
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,559
isn't it was part of my objection you

1203
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:56,599
don't convert that to testimony

1204
00:59:56,599 --> 00:59:58,440
understand let's we're questioning the

1205
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,720
witness right now please oh and you're

1206
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,319
aware that your properties except for

1207
01:00:03,319 --> 01:00:05,760
the Home Place were indeed class being

1208
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,640
classified within the flood

1209
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,079
plane and when hurricane Isabelle came

1210
01:00:11,079 --> 01:00:13,280
through in

1211
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,240
2003

1212
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:19,359
um Stant got flooded the restaurant we

1213
01:00:19,359 --> 01:00:22,520
cleaned it up only to have it flood 3

1214
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,240
days later I'm fully aware of what

1215
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:29,079
flooding can do do here in town and what

1216
01:00:29,079 --> 01:00:30,200
it has

1217
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:31,880
done

1218
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,640
um in part that's why we raised the Lots

1219
01:00:35,640 --> 01:00:39,000
at stets so it wouldn't

1220
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,760
flood and same with the Roden reil

1221
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:44,640
Redevelopment the

1222
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:47,760
resort and

1223
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,599
um were those were those so in essence

1224
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:54,960
you were going to be putting in various

1225
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,319
uh dirt and fill to raise the

1226
01:00:59,319 --> 01:01:02,240
levels we did that at

1227
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:06,000
stet correct and uh but you had you

1228
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:07,839
gotten permits from the court of

1229
01:01:07,839 --> 01:01:10,280
Engineers or anyone else to do that with

1230
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,760
regard to these

1231
01:01:12,760 --> 01:01:15,480
applications uh we have file we filed

1232
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,079
for zoning

1233
01:01:18,079 --> 01:01:21,680
permits my question is did you receive

1234
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:23,880
any any approvals from the core of

1235
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,839
engineers or from the Marland Department of the environment or anyone

1236
01:01:28,839 --> 01:01:33,240
else with regard to uh putting in fill

1237
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:34,799
on those lights with regard to those

1238
01:01:34,799 --> 01:01:36,920
applications if you know whether that's

1239
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,710
even

1240
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:43,520
required we did it at

1241
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:46,359
stet but

1242
01:01:46,359 --> 01:01:50,920
uh we did not do that with these five

1243
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:52,319
applications

1244
01:01:52,319 --> 01:01:54,520
now so you never even filed for the

1245
01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,799
application for that

1246
01:01:57,799 --> 01:02:00,319
well I would think you would do that

1247
01:02:00,319 --> 01:02:02,799
after you got zoning

1248
01:02:02,799 --> 01:02:05,960
approval so your position that the to

1249
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:08,079
why spend all that money without the

1250
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:11,160
zoning approval can I just object on

1251
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:11,920
this

1252
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:14,680
basis Mr pounds is asking a hypothetical

1253
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,079
that doesn't even exist under the law

1254
01:02:16,079 --> 01:02:17,240
you don't go to the core of army

1255
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,640
Engineers you go to the Coward County

1256
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,599
for the grading permit the zoning permit

1257
01:02:22,599 --> 01:02:25,039
allows the grading permit so it's issued

1258
01:02:25,039 --> 01:02:27,559
by the town the of our Engineers mde

1259
01:02:27,559 --> 01:02:28,920
doesn't have anything to do with it at

1260
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,319
that stage and so you're asking

1261
01:02:31,319 --> 01:02:33,640
hypotheticals about them he doesn't know

1262
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:35,520
because he's a lay person and the board

1263
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,440
does not know as well we do not know the

1264
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,480
tick tock of how this process should

1265
01:02:39,480 --> 01:02:42,559
work so i' urge you to present to the

1266
01:02:42,559 --> 01:02:44,920
board what we should be paying attention

1267
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:46,599
to with regards to the tick top of this

1268
01:02:46,599 --> 01:02:49,520
and you may consider doing that during

1269
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:51,799
your section of the presentation and and

1270
01:02:51,799 --> 01:02:53,720
what what and basically the point that

1271
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,720
I'm making is is simply that uh if he

1272
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,440
had already done that or not and and

1273
01:02:58,440 --> 01:03:00,000
that's all he want to testify to that he

1274
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:09,430
had not it's a fair question

1275
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:11,799
continue we are coming up on an hour I

1276
01:03:11,799 --> 01:03:13,359
would like to take a break sometime in

1277
01:03:13,359 --> 01:03:16,240
the next five minutes if that take does

1278
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,079
that work all right we will take a break

1279
01:03:18,079 --> 01:03:24,750
for five minutes thank

1280
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:54,710
you

1281
01:03:54,720 --> 01:07:24,710
e

1282
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:29,710
any

1283
01:07:29,720 --> 01:07:31,520
thank you thank you Mr chair the uh so

1284
01:07:31,520 --> 01:07:33,680
Mr Donovan basically you know we were

1285
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,440
talking about the previous permits which

1286
01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:40,799
had been uh issued uh and the permits

1287
01:07:40,799 --> 01:07:45,240
that I see uh expired back in 2012 and

1288
01:07:45,240 --> 01:07:49,829
the other one expired in I believe in

1289
01:07:49,839 --> 01:07:52,760
200 11 would that be correct to your the

1290
01:07:52,760 --> 01:07:53,839
best of your knowledge or you want to

1291
01:07:53,839 --> 01:07:57,200
see these uh permits here yeah if

1292
01:07:57,200 --> 01:08:22,829
I yeah if I could see him that'd be

1293
01:08:22,839 --> 01:08:26,040
great it looks like both of these for

1294
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,679
State place is that

1295
01:08:28,679 --> 01:08:35,149
correct I can't read that

1296
01:08:35,159 --> 01:08:38,120
one I don't know what this one is

1297
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:45,749
for I can't read

1298
01:08:45,759 --> 01:08:48,480
that 415 Gordon standed Avenue so that's

1299
01:08:48,480 --> 01:08:54,430
Harbor vist North

1300
01:08:54,440 --> 01:08:56,880
okay

1301
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,839
your testimony is with regard to give

1302
01:08:59,839 --> 01:09:03,510
you this one here

1303
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:04,799
[Music]

1304
01:09:04,799 --> 01:09:10,630
too

1305
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,799
eight looks like it

1306
01:09:13,799 --> 01:09:15,359
was

1307
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:18,560
9909 this is for

1308
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,040
87 6 8216 C

1309
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:26,279
Street May s that's the stance for 216

1310
01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:29,920
unit developments it's a renewal on 9909

1311
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:31,960
so it must have been issued one probably

1312
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,640
one year before that oh it looks like

1313
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,359
I'm sorry zoning permit application

1314
01:09:37,359 --> 01:09:41,080
dated 7606 so this is the renewals that

1315
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:45,359
were going on from 2006 through

1316
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:48,679
2009 we'll go over that one first so uh

1317
01:09:48,679 --> 01:09:50,799
and you were are aware that you with

1318
01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:52,359
regard to what your Council just said

1319
01:09:52,359 --> 01:09:56,360
with regard to this was a 2006 a and a

1320
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:00,229
renewal in

1321
01:10:00,239 --> 01:10:03,480
2009 yeah and then so this would have

1322
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:06,669
expired probably in

1323
01:10:06,679 --> 01:10:10,199
2010 uh that sounds correct yes so in

1324
01:10:10,199 --> 01:10:11,760
essence but you didn't file these new

1325
01:10:11,760 --> 01:10:14,600
applications until

1326
01:10:14,600 --> 01:10:18,640
2021 it at stet it would have been for

1327
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,760
uh town house is not um two 16 unit

1328
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,640
buildings it that was two condom

1329
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:29,760
buildings andt it's the zoning

1330
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:33,199
changed so for 11 years though you did

1331
01:10:33,199 --> 01:10:34,800
not file any applications with regard to

1332
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:37,400
that property no

1333
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,920
sir again I want to make sure I'm clear

1334
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:42,800
nothing in the town or the state that

1335
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:44,310
prevented you from doing that

1336
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:45,480
[Music]

1337
01:10:45,480 --> 01:10:50,790
no and with regard

1338
01:10:50,800 --> 01:10:54,440
to the other property of Senate uh again

1339
01:10:54,440 --> 01:10:57,920
this was a Ed in

1340
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:03,630
2012 oh which one is that that's not

1341
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:08,390
stance is this the one I couldn't

1342
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,760
read Gordon Sate uh this would have been

1343
01:11:11,760 --> 01:11:13,960
for Harbor

1344
01:11:13,960 --> 01:11:16,239
Vista

1345
01:11:16,239 --> 01:11:19,760
North 116 unit yep that's har Vista

1346
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,360
North and do you have read the renal

1347
01:11:22,360 --> 01:11:24,239
date on

1348
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,080
it

1349
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:31,990
uh data approved renewal

1350
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,520
91412 so would that renewed for a period

1351
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:37,239
of one year after

1352
01:11:37,239 --> 01:11:40,550
that

1353
01:11:40,560 --> 01:11:47,870
uh looks like

1354
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:51,719
it MH okay so basically and for this

1355
01:11:51,719 --> 01:11:57,080
project uh uh after this permit expired

1356
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:58,960
eight years went by and you did not do

1357
01:11:58,960 --> 01:12:06,550
anything with regard to that site did

1358
01:12:06,560 --> 01:12:09,040
you I think

1359
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:12,520
we I feel like we applied for that and

1360
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:17,199
reapplied for a building there which build which property are we

1361
01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:19,800
talking about now har Vista North I

1362
01:12:19,800 --> 01:12:22,760
believe correct so yeah you applied in

1363
01:12:22,760 --> 01:12:26,400
2019 for it correct

1364
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:31,120
that a little I we we made a we applied

1365
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:38,510
to build in 2019 the Harbor Vista North

1366
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:42,000
property okay and was a Form application

1367
01:12:42,000 --> 01:12:46,120
submitted it was okay what happened to

1368
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,239
it

1369
01:12:48,239 --> 01:12:53,840
um we in we chose not to uh do that

1370
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:57,229
development and

1371
01:12:57,239 --> 01:12:58,840
I don't even think we had zoning

1372
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:01,360
approval from what I recall I know we

1373
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,000
made application I believe we made an

1374
01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:06,480
application I shouldn't say I know I

1375
01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:11,360
believe we did one reason whether you withdrew the

1376
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:15,120
application if if you if you know yeah

1377
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:16,560
let's stick with your personal knowledge

1378
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:18,600
just for the board's and Mr pound's

1379
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:20,560
edification Mr Donovan wasn't the only

1380
01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:22,719
person doing these things Mr Donovan

1381
01:13:22,719 --> 01:13:25,480
Gerald Gerald Donovan was leading the

1382
01:13:25,480 --> 01:13:26,560
for a lot of

1383
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:29,120
this I'm asking you as the president of

1384
01:13:29,120 --> 01:13:33,510
RNR are you aware of

1385
01:13:33,520 --> 01:13:39,560
this I believe so okay was the was the

1386
01:13:39,560 --> 01:13:41,880
application approved

1387
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:48,709
no uh was it denied no was it

1388
01:13:48,719 --> 01:13:51,639
withdrawn I don't know that I don't know

1389
01:13:51,639 --> 01:13:55,199
if it was formally withdrawn I I I

1390
01:13:55,199 --> 01:13:57,760
honestly don't know that are you aware

1391
01:13:57,760 --> 01:14:01,910
of why it didn't go forward for any

1392
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,790
reason

1393
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:08,560
no to your knowledge was anything with

1394
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:10,920
the town or the state which would have

1395
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,440
prevented those that that project from

1396
01:14:12,440 --> 01:14:14,480
going

1397
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:16,920
forward no not I don't have any

1398
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:20,730
knowledge that would have prevented

1399
01:14:20,730 --> 01:14:24,040
[Music]

1400
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:28,590
that

1401
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:29,840
with regard to these

1402
01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:34,000
applications uh you tell the board why

1403
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,920
there were not any continuing renewals

1404
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:41,270
filed with regard to these development

1405
01:14:41,280 --> 01:14:43,880
sites

1406
01:14:43,880 --> 01:14:46,920
and you mean if you know

1407
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:49,480
personally can you restate the question

1408
01:14:49,480 --> 01:14:50,960
sure with regard to the applications

1409
01:14:50,960 --> 01:14:52,679
that we were just discussing and that

1410
01:14:52,679 --> 01:14:54,639
are in exhibits you know with regard to

1411
01:14:54,639 --> 01:14:58,520
the town can you tell me why uh you did

1412
01:14:58,520 --> 01:15:01,080
not file for continuing renewals with

1413
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:02,840
regard to these developments I do not

1414
01:15:02,840 --> 01:15:04,679
recall why

1415
01:15:04,679 --> 01:15:08,560
no uh so you don't know it at all you

1416
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:09,719
don't know at

1417
01:15:09,719 --> 01:15:14,080
all not with any 100% certainty now okay

1418
01:15:14,080 --> 01:15:15,840
you anything from the town or the state

1419
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:18,120
prevent you from requesting a

1420
01:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,639
renewal not that I'm aware of now so

1421
01:15:20,639 --> 01:15:23,960
this would have been a decision that you

1422
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:25,480
made

1423
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:27,290
if you know if I

1424
01:15:27,290 --> 01:15:29,199
[Music]

1425
01:15:29,199 --> 01:15:37,480
know no not

1426
01:15:37,490 --> 01:15:45,910
[Music]

1427
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:48,760
no you know Mr chair there's something

1428
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,000
that is sticking in my craw okay

1429
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:55,760
and and we can speak to Mr s about it or

1430
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,239
whatever the problem is this Mr Woodburn

1431
01:15:59,239 --> 01:16:02,159
testified that he was acting as the

1432
01:16:02,159 --> 01:16:06,639
engineer for the applicant and also the

1433
01:16:06,639 --> 01:16:08,239
question about whether he was acting as

1434
01:16:08,239 --> 01:16:11,679
also the engineer for the town um and he

1435
01:16:11,679 --> 01:16:13,960
testified he thought someone else was

1436
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:15,560
operating as the

1437
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:18,960
engineer um and as it turns out there

1438
01:16:18,960 --> 01:16:22,239
was no other engineer other than him um

1439
01:16:22,239 --> 01:16:24,400
objection well you're making an argument

1440
01:16:24,400 --> 01:16:26,400
so I'm I'm not making an argument I'm

1441
01:16:26,400 --> 01:16:29,760
sort of just stating as to continue the

1442
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,760
question is the question

1443
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:38,159
is I can profer that okay or go into it

1444
01:16:38,159 --> 01:16:40,480
further okay because let me let me tell

1445
01:16:40,480 --> 01:16:41,960
you the other part of that before you

1446
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:43,960
answer that question we have the exact

1447
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:47,520
same problem with Mr Blitz okay he with

1448
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:49,920
Mr ridiculous okay from what I

1449
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:51,199
understand he was acting as the attorney

1450
01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:52,880
for the applicant and also the town

1451
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:58,760
attorney so we have a problem um and

1452
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:02,560
with regard to all of this so I'm so

1453
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,400
we're right now we're in a phase where

1454
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:07,920
I'd like to complete the cross of the

1455
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:11,199
witness if there are concerns about Mr

1456
01:17:11,199 --> 01:17:14,679
blitz's role that I am as of right now

1457
01:17:14,679 --> 01:17:16,400
aside from what we've already discussed

1458
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:17,679
if there's new information I'd like to

1459
01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:19,880
see it written and provided to the board

1460
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:21,360
and thus we can discuss it with our

1461
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:22,679
legal council and make sure we

1462
01:17:22,679 --> 01:17:25,760
understand what is that you're saying um

1463
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,600
as for the engineer who worked for both

1464
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:32,000
the rod and reel and the town I sure

1465
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:33,600
would like to hear more about that but I

1466
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:36,199
don't believe now is the appropriate

1467
01:17:36,199 --> 01:17:39,080
time um if there are questions about

1468
01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:40,760
that you would like to ask the witness I

1469
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:42,120
think that

1470
01:17:42,120 --> 01:17:45,600
is acceptable now um but other than that

1471
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:47,320
I would like to hear about that later

1472
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,159
okay now let me let me ask you Mr

1473
01:17:49,159 --> 01:17:53,040
Woodburn is not here tonight um uh is is

1474
01:17:53,040 --> 01:17:54,239
the applicant going to make him

1475
01:17:54,239 --> 01:17:56,159
available to come or should we subpoena

1476
01:17:56,159 --> 01:17:57,000
him

1477
01:17:57,000 --> 01:17:59,520
or or doesn't have any procedures for

1478
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,880
subpoenas otherwise the Planning and

1479
01:18:01,880 --> 01:18:04,719
Zoning commission and the um zoning

1480
01:18:04,719 --> 01:18:06,080
administrator who have not entered their

1481
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:09,600
appearance would be the board may ask

1482
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:13,120
witnesses to attend at their convenience

1483
01:18:13,120 --> 01:18:17,360
uh we have no power to enforce that

1484
01:18:17,360 --> 01:18:20,600
um let me ask you could I ask the board

1485
01:18:20,600 --> 01:18:23,080
to ask him to

1486
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:27,709
appear um

1487
01:18:27,719 --> 01:18:32,560
yes you may do that um why don't you put

1488
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:36,199
it in writing and we will enter into the

1489
01:18:36,199 --> 01:18:38,159
record and we will make a request for

1490
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,960
any witnesses to reappear at the end of

1491
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:42,800
Mr blitz's

1492
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:44,920
presentation um and we are doing this

1493
01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:47,400
partially because we did not allow the

1494
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,960
public to ask questions at the end of at

1495
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:54,159
appropriate times in the leadup to this

1496
01:18:54,159 --> 01:18:55,719
um

1497
01:18:55,719 --> 01:18:59,040
yes so at the end of the testimony at

1498
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:00,480
the end of your presentation we will ask

1499
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:02,400
witnesses to come back if they would

1500
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:03,840
they're not required to and we cannot

1501
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:06,480
make them um and we will do the best we

1502
01:19:06,480 --> 01:19:09,080
can for that thank you and uh so

1503
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:13,159
obviously part of this is we never have

1504
01:19:13,159 --> 01:19:15,239
begun cross-examination of Mr Blitz

1505
01:19:15,239 --> 01:19:17,560
which I would like the public to at

1506
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:19,120
least have that opportunity cross-

1507
01:19:19,120 --> 01:19:21,239
examine yeah wait a minute then then

1508
01:19:21,239 --> 01:19:22,920
what is this test did he have testimony

1509
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:24,960
or not it did not have testimony we we

1510
01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:26,639
went over all that I've been making

1511
01:19:26,639 --> 01:19:28,760
arguments the entire time there was a

1512
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:30,560
couple times where I've been I apologize

1513
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,000
there will be questioning at the end of

1514
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:33,239
Mr blitz's testimony which will

1515
01:19:33,239 --> 01:19:34,920
Encompass the entire

1516
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,440
presentation um as

1517
01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:40,800
to I want this in writing I want it I

1518
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:42,679
want to hear what it is that you

1519
01:19:42,679 --> 01:19:45,520
want and what you think the board should

1520
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:47,320
do about it and then we will discuss it

1521
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:49,120
with our legal councel I can say I

1522
01:19:49,120 --> 01:19:51,760
personally don't really like this

1523
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:54,320
but is unclear on the procedures at this

1524
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,400
point so make your request we'll talk

1525
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,040
about it we'll figure it out you will be

1526
01:19:58,040 --> 01:20:00,239
allowed to ask some questions at the end

1527
01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:02,600
of the presentation to Mr

1528
01:20:02,600 --> 01:20:05,120
Blitz how that differs from

1529
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:07,880
cross-examining a witness is not yet

1530
01:20:07,880 --> 01:20:09,280
decided this is an administrative

1531
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:10,840
hearing and we've never done anything

1532
01:20:10,840 --> 01:20:13,719
like this so does that get to answer

1533
01:20:13,719 --> 01:20:15,239
your question I don't like this either

1534
01:20:15,239 --> 01:20:17,960
yeah uh but at the same time I have a

1535
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,760
fiduciary duty to my client and and this

1536
01:20:21,760 --> 01:20:26,560
was a problem and so write it up

1537
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:28,560
and it'll be short and sweet it's not

1538
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:29,800
going to be anything long because you

1539
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:30,760
know one of the reasons I'm not gonna

1540
01:20:30,760 --> 01:20:33,199
make it real long is because obviously

1541
01:20:33,199 --> 01:20:34,600
it's going to be spread around and I

1542
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:36,960
don't want an idea as to where on the

1543
01:20:36,960 --> 01:20:38,880
Arena fair enough G to straight be

1544
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:44,360
straightforward the request okay we will receive that um are

1545
01:20:44,360 --> 01:20:48,709
we done with the

1546
01:20:48,719 --> 01:20:53,639
cross as far as Mr Donovan

1547
01:20:53,639 --> 01:21:00,950
um

1548
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:03,600
yes I am you want me to redirect with

1549
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:05,000
him first or do you want to go to

1550
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:07,880
members of the public let's you redirect

1551
01:21:07,880 --> 01:21:10,400
yeah go ahead and redirect

1552
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:15,960
okay so first um Mr Donovan you were

1553
01:21:15,960 --> 01:21:18,280
asked about the incorporation of the rod

1554
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:21,400
and reel would if I suggested that it

1555
01:21:21,400 --> 01:21:24,159
occurred in 1972 would that sound about

1556
01:21:24,159 --> 01:21:27,400
right as from your perspective it would

1557
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:30,040
okay just so you hear the

1558
01:21:30,040 --> 01:21:32,080
date

1559
01:21:32,080 --> 01:21:35,199
um you were also asked about permits and

1560
01:21:35,199 --> 01:21:37,120
you testified that no permit had been

1561
01:21:37,120 --> 01:21:39,320
granted for Harbor Vista North but we

1562
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:41,960
already have an exhibit that

1563
01:21:41,960 --> 01:21:46,440
shows the zoning permit for Harbor Vista

1564
01:21:46,440 --> 01:21:48,360
North so I want you to be able to look

1565
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,239
at that and then correct your

1566
01:21:50,239 --> 01:21:53,199
testimony yeah I don't remember this but

1567
01:21:53,199 --> 01:21:55,880
clear clearly we were okay you state the

1568
01:21:55,880 --> 01:21:59,040
date on that so this is this is one one

1569
01:21:59,040 --> 01:22:01,679
of the things that Mr susman was using

1570
01:22:01,679 --> 01:22:05,120
to Mr P I apologize Mr pounds was using

1571
01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:07,520
to cross was one of the zoning permits

1572
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,520
for Harbor Vista North the

1573
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,120
date

1574
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:17,669
is the application date is

1575
01:22:17,679 --> 01:22:20,239
91611 the approval date is

1576
01:22:20,239 --> 01:22:24,040
92211 it looks like it was re renewed on

1577
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:28,790
94

1578
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:32,480
1412 and that's it for this piece of

1579
01:22:32,480 --> 01:22:37,760
paper I verify that's exhibit 57

1580
01:22:37,760 --> 01:22:40,239
correct for some reason mine doesn't get

1581
01:22:40,239 --> 01:22:44,280
written as what it is but that's my

1582
01:22:44,280 --> 01:22:53,430
understanding okay

1583
01:22:53,440 --> 01:22:58,669
um

1584
01:22:58,679 --> 01:23:01,040
the minutes from that we approved today

1585
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,480
say that it's 57

1586
01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:07,360
okay that's the packet of zoning permits

1587
01:23:07,360 --> 01:23:09,760
correct it's the first you had three

1588
01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:13,520
different ones 57 58 59 andain permits

1589
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:15,400
okay thank

1590
01:23:15,400 --> 01:23:18,510
you

1591
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:23,040
so now you testified um in answers to Mr

1592
01:23:23,040 --> 01:23:24,880
pound's questions that you didn't meet

1593
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:26,960
with the Planning and Zoning commission

1594
01:23:26,960 --> 01:23:28,760
but isn't it true that you provided

1595
01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:30,840
testimony about the comprehensive plan

1596
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:34,440
throughout the pro process yeah I

1597
01:23:34,440 --> 01:23:39,790
did and

1598
01:23:39,800 --> 01:23:42,760
you oh that's it just want to make sure

1599
01:23:42,760 --> 01:23:44,460
that's

1600
01:23:44,460 --> 01:23:50,750
[Music]

1601
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:53,360
clear I don't like any of this either in

1602
01:23:53,360 --> 01:23:55,600
case anyone so we'll probably all end

1603
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,620
this together on this one

1604
01:23:58,620 --> 01:24:03,870
[Music]

1605
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:07,080
guys and I I just want to make sure your

1606
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,840
testimony is correct because I I think

1607
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:11,320
you might have said that you'd got no

1608
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:13,760
permit for home place but isn't it true

1609
01:24:13,760 --> 01:24:16,159
that you got a grading permit for home

1610
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:18,120
place which is itself based upon a

1611
01:24:18,120 --> 01:24:20,400
zoning permit yeah

1612
01:24:20,400 --> 01:24:23,120
correct that just so you know it was

1613
01:24:23,120 --> 01:24:26,000
just for great it wasn't for the whole

1614
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,040
thing that hadn't been hadn't gone

1615
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:32,790
through that part of the process

1616
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:35,800
yet uh no further

1617
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:37,800
questions

1618
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:40,920
um at this point in time we will hear

1619
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:42,440
from any members of the public who would

1620
01:24:42,440 --> 01:24:44,520
like to ask questions com on up state

1621
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,080
your name raise your hand in the air Mr

1622
01:24:47,080 --> 01:24:49,119
susman would you do the

1623
01:24:49,119 --> 01:24:52,639
honors and this blanket swearing in for

1624
01:24:52,639 --> 01:24:54,480
anybody here and I have signed in

1625
01:24:54,480 --> 01:24:56,280
previously on one of these she okay then

1626
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:57,440
just sayate your name that'll be all

1627
01:24:57,440 --> 01:24:59,320
right so it's it's Randall

1628
01:24:59,320 --> 01:25:03,239
Gman getman do you were affirm or that

1629
01:25:03,239 --> 01:25:05,280
the penalties of perjury that the

1630
01:25:05,280 --> 01:25:07,880
testimony you are about to give and the

1631
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:09,960
responses and statements you are about

1632
01:25:09,960 --> 01:25:12,199
to make will be the TR whole truth and

1633
01:25:12,199 --> 01:25:15,320
nothing but the truth I

1634
01:25:15,320 --> 01:25:19,679
do I I actually uh um Mr Donan I I I

1635
01:25:19,679 --> 01:25:24,960
have a question for you so I think you stated in that in 202

1636
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:27,840
21 um you were aware that the Planning

1637
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,760
and Zoning was was looking at other uses

1638
01:25:31,760 --> 01:25:33,880
for your property I think he said Green

1639
01:25:33,880 --> 01:25:36,800
Space or park or something it would have

1640
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:41,520
been in November October of 2020 2020

1641
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:42,639
okay

1642
01:25:42,639 --> 01:25:46,760
did did you ever were you aware before

1643
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:49,520
that that the Planning and Zoning uh

1644
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:51,159
were there any other indications that

1645
01:25:51,159 --> 01:25:53,400
they were working on things in the

1646
01:25:53,400 --> 01:25:54,960
comprehensive plan

1647
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:57,639
that might have affected you being able

1648
01:25:57,639 --> 01:26:01,480
to develop your properties prior to that

1649
01:26:01,480 --> 01:26:05,590
prior to November of

1650
01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:08,320
2020 I was aware that they were redoing

1651
01:26:08,320 --> 01:26:10,800
the comprehensive

1652
01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,880
plan after we watched whatever meeting

1653
01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,360
the October or November whichever one we

1654
01:26:17,360 --> 01:26:18,600
went back and

1655
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:22,239
watched so to kind of help you out I'd

1656
01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:25,960
like to call attention to exhibit 10

1657
01:26:25,960 --> 01:26:27,600
which is the minutes of the Planning and

1658
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,760
Zoning for June 20 2018 I got this out

1659
01:26:31,760 --> 01:26:36,550
of your

1660
01:26:36,560 --> 01:26:39,080
package okay and and

1661
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:41,719
so in there it's there's a couple of

1662
01:26:41,719 --> 01:26:47,199
things I wanted to call out you know it says that Mr Blitz uh Esquire was

1663
01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:49,000
present on behalf of applicant owner

1664
01:26:49,000 --> 01:26:51,920
Roden reel to request the second

1665
01:26:51,920 --> 01:26:53,960
one-year extension of the preliminary

1666
01:26:53,960 --> 01:26:56,600
site plan for the harbor V South

1667
01:26:56,600 --> 01:26:59,320
Apartments that was granted in 2017 by

1668
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,000
the Planning Commission so I just want

1669
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:05,080
to point that out and then in the next

1670
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:08,239
paragraph the commission had concerns

1671
01:27:08,239 --> 01:27:09,840
talking about the Planning and Zoning

1672
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,639
commission had concerns that they are in

1673
01:27:12,639 --> 01:27:14,520
the beginning stages of preparing the

1674
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:16,880
new comprehensive plan and there could

1675
01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,880
be changes to the zoning ordinance that

1676
01:27:18,880 --> 01:27:20,520
would affect the construction of the

1677
01:27:20,520 --> 01:27:23,920
future of of the project in the future

1678
01:27:23,920 --> 01:27:25,080
yeah

1679
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:28,719
so you were you were aware I assume

1680
01:27:28,719 --> 01:27:30,760
since he was representing you that you

1681
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,800
were aware of it back in at least June

1682
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:34,600
of

1683
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,400
2018 correct yeah back then yeah but

1684
01:27:38,400 --> 01:27:41,719
they weren't talking about taking stets

1685
01:27:41,719 --> 01:27:44,719
and making it into a park but yeah we

1686
01:27:44,719 --> 01:27:46,199
were knew we knew that they were going

1687
01:27:46,199 --> 01:27:47,480
through the comprehensive plan

1688
01:27:47,480 --> 01:27:49,480
absolutely and that they were and that

1689
01:27:49,480 --> 01:27:52,239
they were maybe heading in a direction

1690
01:27:52,239 --> 01:27:55,000
uh that that could have prevented you

1691
01:27:55,000 --> 01:28:02,199
from doing your projects in 2018 yeah no I'm gonna read it again I don't

1692
01:28:02,199 --> 01:28:05,080
remember that at all okay you should

1693
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,550
have told

1694
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:10,440
him because it's here that he was here

1695
01:28:10,440 --> 01:28:13,119
representing you and it says that they

1696
01:28:13,119 --> 01:28:14,480
were in the beginning stage of the

1697
01:28:14,480 --> 01:28:17,760
comprehensive plan you also stated that

1698
01:28:17,760 --> 01:28:21,000
throughout the comprehensive plan

1699
01:28:21,000 --> 01:28:23,760
process uh you were monitoring it as

1700
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:24,960
well

1701
01:28:24,960 --> 01:28:27,800
after yeah correct so the only point I

1702
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:33,080
was really making and and is is is that this thing has been

1703
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:35,400
going on for a long time the

1704
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:40,320
comprehensive plan yes absolutely and and the discuss and the potential

1705
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:43,880
discussions of uh of changes to the

1706
01:28:43,880 --> 01:28:44,880
zoning

1707
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,119
ordinance uh you know the comprehensive

1708
01:28:47,119 --> 01:28:49,520
plan what they were thinking what the

1709
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:51,560
directions that they were they were

1710
01:28:51,560 --> 01:28:55,280
going to was in the process changing way

1711
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:58,440
back in 2018 the things that they were

1712
01:28:58,440 --> 01:29:01,199
discussing from what I recall it was a

1713
01:29:01,199 --> 01:29:04,600
lot of the zoning administrator teaching

1714
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:06,760
the Planning Commission about the

1715
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:10,280
comprehensive plan I I understand that

1716
01:29:10,280 --> 01:29:11,880
especially having been in the

1717
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:13,920
development of the 2010 2011

1718
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:15,159
comprehensive

1719
01:29:15,159 --> 01:29:18,920
plan yeah my name's on that yeah so I

1720
01:29:18,920 --> 01:29:20,639
understand what you're saying I I don't

1721
01:29:20,639 --> 01:29:25,199
recall any uh thing that came close to

1722
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:27,400
what we saw about when they were talking

1723
01:29:27,400 --> 01:29:28,920
about Senate specifically what they were

1724
01:29:28,920 --> 01:29:37,350
doing to your thing but correct yeah and I I'm there was also uh

1725
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:40,280
um later on in your in your your

1726
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:45,960
testimony you you you talked about the uh um the

1727
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:50,830
discussions uh about

1728
01:29:50,840 --> 01:29:56,470
the the uh sorry um

1729
01:29:56,480 --> 01:30:02,159
the zoom meetings that took place in in regard to to the

1730
01:30:02,159 --> 01:30:05,159
moratorium um those were very public and

1731
01:30:05,159 --> 01:30:06,840
you did get to address I know because I

1732
01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:11,440
was listening yeah we did yeah so you you were participating that but that

1733
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:15,000
was in when they were looking at the

1734
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,239
moratorium that's that's all I now the

1735
01:30:17,239 --> 01:30:20,480
only thing that I can recall right now

1736
01:30:20,480 --> 01:30:24,080
that that they were talking about

1737
01:30:24,080 --> 01:30:25,199
previous

1738
01:30:25,199 --> 01:30:27,719
to the one where they were talking about

1739
01:30:27,719 --> 01:30:29,360
s that would have

1740
01:30:29,360 --> 01:30:32,159
affected not all of the stuff we were

1741
01:30:32,159 --> 01:30:35,239
looking to develop was the height limit

1742
01:30:35,239 --> 01:30:38,560
okay but I don't remember any zoning

1743
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:42,159
changes per se okay thanks no problem

1744
01:30:42,159 --> 01:30:50,550
that's all I

1745
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:53,639
have all right um any members of the

1746
01:30:53,639 --> 01:30:56,960
board have questions that they like

1747
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:01,750
answered by the witness at this point in

1748
01:31:01,760 --> 01:31:04,159
time during this time I know you talked

1749
01:31:04,159 --> 01:31:05,520
about an

1750
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:10,119
economic um situation 208 whatever right

1751
01:31:10,119 --> 01:31:11,920
sure um that lasted for a few years was

1752
01:31:11,920 --> 01:31:13,719
there anything else going on with these

1753
01:31:13,719 --> 01:31:17,870
properties in that time

1754
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:20,440
period

1755
01:31:20,440 --> 01:31:32,390
um not that I can recall now

1756
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:36,119
all right last call all right thank you

1757
01:31:36,119 --> 01:31:38,600
for providing testimony Mr Blitz um we

1758
01:31:38,600 --> 01:31:40,480
have 30 minutes left tonight so you are

1759
01:31:40,480 --> 01:31:43,600
welcome to continue um wherever you

1760
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:52,830
would

1761
01:31:52,840 --> 01:32:22,830
like

1762
01:32:22,840 --> 01:32:25,000
top

1763
01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:28,109
okay

1764
01:32:28,119 --> 01:32:30,920
so most of the rest of this is the

1765
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:33,920
argument about the requested relief and

1766
01:32:33,920 --> 01:32:35,639
how you do it what authorities you have

1767
01:32:35,639 --> 01:32:38,480
to do it and why you should do what

1768
01:32:38,480 --> 01:32:40,199
we're asking

1769
01:32:40,199 --> 01:32:43,639
for and it presents the both legal

1770
01:32:43,639 --> 01:32:47,629
reasons as well

1771
01:32:47,639 --> 01:32:50,920
as some probably

1772
01:32:50,920 --> 01:32:53,480
additional legal arguments about why you

1773
01:32:53,480 --> 01:32:55,520
do it

1774
01:32:55,520 --> 01:32:56,960
so we're going to start with the board's

1775
01:32:56,960 --> 01:32:58,840
Authority in this case and it's an

1776
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:02,880
expansive authority to craft relief it's

1777
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:04,960
given to you by both Maryland law and

1778
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:09,199
town law it's section 4306 F of the land

1779
01:33:09,199 --> 01:33:14,159
use article section 29032 g and that is

1780
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:17,040
important because it gives this board

1781
01:33:17,040 --> 01:33:20,880
the power to assume all of the powers of

1782
01:33:20,880 --> 01:33:22,639
the zoning administrator and the

1783
01:33:22,639 --> 01:33:24,119
Planning and Zoning Commission in

1784
01:33:24,119 --> 01:33:26,440
crafting

1785
01:33:26,440 --> 01:33:29,080
relief either reviewing and approving

1786
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:31,320
the site plans and issuing the zoning

1787
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:33,320
permits yourself according to the laws

1788
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:34,560
that existed on the date the

1789
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:35,760
applications were

1790
01:33:35,760 --> 01:33:38,280
filed or ordering the zoning

1791
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:39,400
administrator and the Planning and

1792
01:33:39,400 --> 01:33:42,080
Zoning commission to review those site

1793
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,280
plans according to the laws that existed

1794
01:33:44,280 --> 01:33:46,280
on the date of the applications were

1795
01:33:46,280 --> 01:33:48,320
filed and ordering the zoning

1796
01:33:48,320 --> 01:33:50,880
administrator to issue a permit if the

1797
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,199
site plans are approved according to

1798
01:33:53,199 --> 01:33:55,239
those laws at that

1799
01:33:55,239 --> 01:34:01,830
time so it's 4306

1800
01:34:01,840 --> 01:34:08,270
F that gives you those all expansive

1801
01:34:08,280 --> 01:34:10,280
Powers the consequence of the

1802
01:34:10,280 --> 01:34:12,520
administrative error which was the

1803
01:34:12,520 --> 01:34:14,880
failure to process the site plans as

1804
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:17,239
required under the town

1805
01:34:17,239 --> 01:34:19,280
code is

1806
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:24,080
first let me make the simple point that

1807
01:34:24,080 --> 01:34:26,440
the rod and reel based upon the evidence

1808
01:34:26,440 --> 01:34:30,360
that you've heard is an AG grieved

1809
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,000
party it and its wholly owned subsidiary

1810
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,400
owned the properties and sought

1811
01:34:35,400 --> 01:34:36,679
development through the site plan

1812
01:34:36,679 --> 01:34:40,199
approval process by filing its

1813
01:34:40,199 --> 01:34:42,480
applications the failure of the Planning

1814
01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:44,040
and Zoning commission and the zoning

1815
01:34:44,040 --> 01:34:46,000
administrator to even begin the process

1816
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:49,080
of site plan review within the 60 days

1817
01:34:49,080 --> 01:34:51,440
after the applications were

1818
01:34:51,440 --> 01:34:56,400
filed even if they relied upon the validity or effectiveness of the

1819
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:59,480
moratorium in good faith was an

1820
01:34:59,480 --> 01:35:02,520
error the applicate the applicants were

1821
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:05,520
the ones harmed by that error that makes

1822
01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:14,189
them AG grieved

1823
01:35:14,199 --> 01:35:16,560
parties second both the zoning

1824
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:17,800
administrator and the Planning and

1825
01:35:17,800 --> 01:35:19,520
Zoning commission act in an

1826
01:35:19,520 --> 01:35:22,679
administrative capacity when conducting

1827
01:35:22,679 --> 01:35:24,560
site plane reveal

1828
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:26,440
and slight plan review is kind of like

1829
01:35:26,440 --> 01:35:28,400
the quintessential example of

1830
01:35:28,400 --> 01:35:30,960
administrative capacity rather than the

1831
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,440
commission's discretionary policy

1832
01:35:33,440 --> 01:35:36,800
Powers so when the commission was

1833
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:38,639
deciding what the comprehensive plan

1834
01:35:38,639 --> 01:35:41,239
should be taking testimony that's all

1835
01:35:41,239 --> 01:35:43,159
discretionary policy

1836
01:35:43,159 --> 01:35:45,239
Powers uh and cannot easily be

1837
01:35:45,239 --> 01:35:47,679
challenged under the law and we don't

1838
01:35:47,679 --> 01:35:49,560
challenge it in this

1839
01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:52,119
case okay we don't challenge their power

1840
01:35:52,119 --> 01:35:55,080
to do it through the comprehensive plan

1841
01:35:55,080 --> 01:35:56,639
that's not what this case is

1842
01:35:56,639 --> 01:35:59,639
about but site plan review and the

1843
01:35:59,639 --> 01:36:02,159
obligation to properly conduct that site

1844
01:36:02,159 --> 01:36:05,679
plan review is Administrative in nature

1845
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:08,600
the administrators apply the law in

1846
01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:12,239
effect at the time and determine if the

1847
01:36:12,239 --> 01:36:14,560
property owner's proposed development

1848
01:36:14,560 --> 01:36:18,280
meet the standards set forth in the

1849
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:20,600
ordinances in that context they are

1850
01:36:20,600 --> 01:36:25,239
administering the law not enacting it

1851
01:36:25,239 --> 01:36:27,800
and therefore the rod and reel has

1852
01:36:27,800 --> 01:36:33,510
standing to bring this

1853
01:36:33,520 --> 01:36:38,830
appeal with respect to the request for

1854
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:41,920
Relief I think you're jumping ahead

1855
01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:45,159
from yeah I don't think I'm using that

1856
01:36:45,159 --> 01:36:49,790
for

1857
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,920
this the consequence of the

1858
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:53,639
administrator's failure to process the

1859
01:36:53,639 --> 01:36:56,040
site plans as required by the zoning

1860
01:36:56,040 --> 01:36:59,480
ordinance was the delay in

1861
01:36:59,480 --> 01:37:01,760
permitting that delay in permitting

1862
01:37:01,760 --> 01:37:04,560
delayed the start of construction which

1863
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:06,880
itself as you heard from Mr Woodburn

1864
01:37:06,880 --> 01:37:08,440
could have sufficiently progressed to

1865
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:11,239
create a vested entitlement to the

1866
01:37:11,239 --> 01:37:13,719
permits such that the subsequent changes

1867
01:37:13,719 --> 01:37:15,400
to the zoning ordinance that occurred

1868
01:37:15,400 --> 01:37:19,000
well after would not have

1869
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:21,280
mattered based upon the evidence we've

1870
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:24,280
provided you in this case

1871
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:26,400
can there be any doubt that the purpose

1872
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:28,679
of the attempt at passing a

1873
01:37:28,679 --> 01:37:31,000
moratorium or the denial of the site

1874
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:32,840
plan

1875
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:35,560
review after the moratorium had

1876
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:38,199
expired was motivated by the goal of

1877
01:37:38,199 --> 01:37:40,520
changing the law to make the proposed

1878
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:42,840
developments

1879
01:37:42,840 --> 01:37:45,159
impossible I argue that it was clearly

1880
01:37:45,159 --> 01:37:46,520
the goal of the

1881
01:37:46,520 --> 01:37:48,960
delay if the board concludes that the

1882
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:52,199
means and manner of achieving that delay

1883
01:37:52,199 --> 01:37:55,159
were wrongful and the moratorium was

1884
01:37:55,159 --> 01:37:57,119
without effect as we've

1885
01:37:57,119 --> 01:38:00,000
argued then the fair and just result is

1886
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,239
to put the Roden reel back in the same

1887
01:38:02,239 --> 01:38:04,840
legal position it would have been in

1888
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:07,750
when it filed its

1889
01:38:07,760 --> 01:38:09,840
applications the board does not need to

1890
01:38:09,840 --> 01:38:12,400
presume that the rod and real site plans

1891
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:14,119
would have been approved if the law in

1892
01:38:14,119 --> 01:38:18,119
effect on January 29th 2021 were applied

1893
01:38:18,119 --> 01:38:20,400
to the applications because we're at

1894
01:38:20,400 --> 01:38:22,040
this point we're not asking the board to

1895
01:38:22,040 --> 01:38:24,000
approve the site plans at this stage

1896
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,679
merely asking for the order from this

1897
01:38:26,679 --> 01:38:29,159
appeal be that the site plans be

1898
01:38:29,159 --> 01:38:31,840
processed in accordance with the laws in

1899
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:34,280
effect at that

1900
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:37,320
time if not for the delay caused by the

1901
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:38,719
zoning administrator and the Planning

1902
01:38:38,719 --> 01:38:40,119
and Zoning commissions failure to

1903
01:38:40,119 --> 01:38:42,639
process the site plans in a reasonable

1904
01:38:42,639 --> 01:38:43,960
and timely

1905
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:46,880
manner that is what would have

1906
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:49,080
occurred by granting the requested

1907
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:51,040
relief you would be restoring the rod

1908
01:38:51,040 --> 01:38:52,840
and reel to its original starting

1909
01:38:52,840 --> 01:38:54,639
position and there would still be a

1910
01:38:54,639 --> 01:38:56,719
review of the site plans to determine

1911
01:38:56,719 --> 01:38:59,040
the sufficiency of the plans according

1912
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:00,760
to the standards in effect when the

1913
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:03,080
applications were

1914
01:39:03,080 --> 01:39:05,400
filed the same would apply for to the

1915
01:39:05,400 --> 01:39:07,199
eventual zoning permit that would be

1916
01:39:07,199 --> 01:39:08,880
issued after the final site plan

1917
01:39:08,880 --> 01:39:11,199
approval if the law in effect as of

1918
01:39:11,199 --> 01:39:13,840
January 29th 2021 supports the issuance

1919
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:15,400
of the zoning

1920
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:19,560
permit then it can be if if we get such

1921
01:39:19,560 --> 01:39:22,520
an order from this board then it can be

1922
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:25,390
approved

1923
01:39:25,400 --> 01:39:27,840
um remember that in this context the

1924
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:29,840
error in this case was on the part of

1925
01:39:29,840 --> 01:39:31,760
both the zoning

1926
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:33,560
administrator and the Planning and

1927
01:39:33,560 --> 01:39:34,599
Zoning

1928
01:39:34,599 --> 01:39:36,320
commission

1929
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:38,760
um and the zoning administrator is the

1930
01:39:38,760 --> 01:39:41,159
one that issues zoning permits the

1931
01:39:41,159 --> 01:39:43,920
application is for a zoning permit it

1932
01:39:43,920 --> 01:39:45,800
triggers the requirement for site plan

1933
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:47,599
review because it's category one site

1934
01:39:47,599 --> 01:39:50,119
plan and that that brings the Planning

1935
01:39:50,119 --> 01:39:52,760
and Zoning commission into the process

1936
01:39:52,760 --> 01:39:55,520
so both of them had a role in this in

1937
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:59,880
the required processing of these site

1938
01:39:59,880 --> 01:40:03,679
plans as We R reviewed at the last

1939
01:40:03,679 --> 01:40:05,800
hearing I believe the applications you

1940
01:40:05,800 --> 01:40:10,880
know request that zoning permit

1941
01:40:10,880 --> 01:40:14,119
um at the same time that the site plan

1942
01:40:14,119 --> 01:40:16,440
review is triggered so if we could go to

1943
01:40:16,440 --> 01:40:18,480
slide three

1944
01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:22,320
please so that

1945
01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,239
yeah

1946
01:40:24,239 --> 01:40:26,199
so with respect to the obligation of the

1947
01:40:26,199 --> 01:40:27,719
zoning permit I mean zoning

1948
01:40:27,719 --> 01:40:29,599
administrator to issue a zoning permit

1949
01:40:29,599 --> 01:40:31,920
in accordance with the approved slate

1950
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,880
plan as either approved directly by this

1951
01:40:34,880 --> 01:40:37,440
board or the commission pursuant to your

1952
01:40:37,440 --> 01:40:42,800
order in this case should you grant it should be noted that subsection C of

1953
01:40:42,800 --> 01:40:45,480
29027 which I'm showing you of your

1954
01:40:45,480 --> 01:40:47,920
zoning ordinance which you already have

1955
01:40:47,920 --> 01:40:49,520
in your

1956
01:40:49,520 --> 01:40:52,920
binders and I want you to take note of

1957
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:53,880
the last

1958
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:57,239
sentence which reads no zoning permit

1959
01:40:57,239 --> 01:40:59,560
shall be issued except in Conformity

1960
01:40:59,560 --> 01:41:01,880
with the provisions of this chapter and

1961
01:41:01,880 --> 01:41:04,320
when it says chapter it's referring to

1962
01:41:04,320 --> 01:41:05,960
the zoning ordinance because it's

1963
01:41:05,960 --> 01:41:09,440
chapter 50 I believe of your total town

1964
01:41:09,440 --> 01:41:13,400
code except after written order from the

1965
01:41:13,400 --> 01:41:15,960
board of

1966
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:19,000
appeals as I mentioned earlier the

1967
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:21,440
zoning administrator also acts as in an

1968
01:41:21,440 --> 01:41:23,360
administrative capacity not a policy

1969
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:25,599
capacity when administering the intake

1970
01:41:25,599 --> 01:41:28,080
of a zoning permit application including

1971
01:41:28,080 --> 01:41:30,480
ones like the rod and reel that require

1972
01:41:30,480 --> 01:41:32,320
site plan

1973
01:41:32,320 --> 01:41:34,920
review they do so also when they're

1974
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,480
issuing a zoning

1975
01:41:37,480 --> 01:41:40,440
permit as this last Clause indicates of

1976
01:41:40,440 --> 01:41:42,560
the LA the last Clause of this of this

1977
01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:45,320
last sentence that obligation can be

1978
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:48,280
modified by this board and then the

1979
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:49,880
zoning administrator is required to

1980
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:51,679
issue a zoning permit in accordance with

1981
01:41:51,679 --> 01:41:54,320
this board's order

1982
01:41:54,320 --> 01:41:56,000
so if you

1983
01:41:56,000 --> 01:42:00,960
choose to Grant the relief you have the

1984
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:02,960
option of doing the work

1985
01:42:02,960 --> 01:42:05,239
yourself of the review of the site plans

1986
01:42:05,239 --> 01:42:07,080
and the issuance of the zoning order or

1987
01:42:07,080 --> 01:42:08,960
ordering them to do it in accordance

1988
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:12,800
with the law in effect at the time

1989
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,280
that's your choice in Grant in crafting

1990
01:42:15,280 --> 01:42:22,149
the

1991
01:42:22,159 --> 01:42:25,470
relief

1992
01:42:25,480 --> 01:42:28,159
we we are going sort of way over as to

1993
01:42:28,159 --> 01:42:29,920
what that says and what it means as far

1994
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,440
as as as well as the powers of the board

1995
01:42:32,440 --> 01:42:35,360
to in essence issue permits or even

1996
01:42:35,360 --> 01:42:39,159
review applications um I mean that is

1997
01:42:39,159 --> 01:42:41,880
going way be this and I think the proper

1998
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:43,920
interpretation of that and I can appreci

1999
01:42:43,920 --> 01:42:45,599
I'm G to object to the introduction of

2000
01:42:45,599 --> 01:42:47,880
argument in the middle of my argument

2001
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,639
that's not an objection okay um because

2002
01:42:50,639 --> 01:42:51,880
I think that goes to the board of

2003
01:42:51,880 --> 01:42:53,400
appeals as far as any waivers or

2004
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:55,480
variances that may be required with

2005
01:42:55,480 --> 01:42:57,360
regard to the application the objection

2006
01:42:57,360 --> 01:43:00,560
is overruled uh interpretations of the

2007
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:05,709
same text may be presented during

2008
01:43:05,719 --> 01:43:07,280
your

2009
01:43:07,280 --> 01:43:09,920
so I think the board should consider

2010
01:43:09,920 --> 01:43:11,400
whether the Roden reel was treated

2011
01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:13,440
fairly in this

2012
01:43:13,440 --> 01:43:16,040
process the law cannot be applied

2013
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:18,599
arbitrarily arbitrarily or

2014
01:43:18,599 --> 01:43:20,760
capriciously and would administrative

2015
01:43:20,760 --> 01:43:23,199
agents use their discretion to ignore or

2016
01:43:23,199 --> 01:43:26,800
refuse to abide by clear statutory

2017
01:43:26,800 --> 01:43:29,280
commands they must do so based upon

2018
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:31,639
objective rationale not one based upon

2019
01:43:31,639 --> 01:43:33,080
their subjective

2020
01:43:33,080 --> 01:43:35,400
preferences so laws must be applied

2021
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:36,880
equally to everyone and the

2022
01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:38,800
administration of those laws can't be

2023
01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:41,679
gained to favor or Prejudice a party

2024
01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:42,920
subject to that

2025
01:43:42,920 --> 01:43:45,800
law and I argue that is exactly what

2026
01:43:45,800 --> 01:43:48,639
occurred in this case the zoning

2027
01:43:48,639 --> 01:43:49,960
administrator and planning and zoning

2028
01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:53,360
commission did not want these projects

2029
01:43:53,360 --> 01:43:55,119
and the Roden reel that the Roden reel

2030
01:43:55,119 --> 01:43:57,960
applications proposed so immediately

2031
01:43:57,960 --> 01:43:59,880
mere seven days after the applications

2032
01:43:59,880 --> 01:44:02,119
were filed they were announcing

2033
01:44:02,119 --> 01:44:04,040
justifications for delaying the

2034
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:07,400
processing of those applications and

2035
01:44:07,400 --> 01:44:09,400
then they did delay the processing of

2036
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:11,159
those

2037
01:44:11,159 --> 01:44:14,040
applications I'm going to hand out

2038
01:44:14,040 --> 01:44:19,119
as demonstrable EV uh um evidence a

2039
01:44:19,119 --> 01:44:22,360
little timeline that'll help as I go

2040
01:44:22,360 --> 01:44:23,599
through

2041
01:44:23,599 --> 01:44:28,990
the

2042
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,550
next

2043
01:44:31,550 --> 01:44:45,149
[Applause]

2044
01:44:45,159 --> 01:44:48,350
ofation

2045
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:52,030
yeah

2046
01:44:52,040 --> 01:44:54,080
yes

2047
01:44:54,080 --> 01:45:10,629
all the and things shown on this are in

2048
01:45:10,639 --> 01:45:12,760
evidence again this is sort of a summary

2049
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:15,000
and a compilation which more appropriate

2050
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:17,360
would be a closing but to help the board

2051
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:19,080
out I I'm not going to to it I'd like

2052
01:45:19,080 --> 01:45:21,080
this in evidence we give it a can we

2053
01:45:21,080 --> 01:45:21,960
give it a

2054
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:24,480
number

2055
01:45:24,480 --> 01:45:30,830
might be a summary of the same things

2056
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:35,669
but so that would be exhibit 63

2057
01:45:35,679 --> 01:45:38,080
Sharon

2058
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:41,040
63 would you want me to mark one of them

2059
01:45:41,040 --> 01:45:43,400
with an exhibit uh sticker it's okay I

2060
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:50,149
think we've got it

2061
01:45:50,159 --> 01:45:53,080
okay so I'm showing this not to rehash

2062
01:45:53,080 --> 01:45:55,719
the evidence but to help you put into

2063
01:45:55,719 --> 01:46:00,920
context this argument that the delay was

2064
01:46:00,920 --> 01:46:03,199
unreasonable the delay in processing the

2065
01:46:03,199 --> 01:46:06,320
site plans and that's constrained the

2066
01:46:06,320 --> 01:46:10,119
Roden reel's rights to develop its

2067
01:46:10,119 --> 01:46:13,159
properties so after the applications are

2068
01:46:13,159 --> 01:46:17,480
filed on January 29th 21 as you've heard

2069
01:46:17,480 --> 01:46:19,920
seven days later on February 5th the

2070
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:22,000
zoning administrator sent sent that

2071
01:46:22,000 --> 01:46:24,320
email

2072
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:25,800
and saying that it would create a burden

2073
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:27,400
on the commission and the moratorium

2074
01:46:27,400 --> 01:46:29,679
would be proposed and as we have shown

2075
01:46:29,679 --> 01:46:32,159
you a version of these five projects

2076
01:46:32,159 --> 01:46:34,520
have been long planned for and accounted

2077
01:46:34,520 --> 01:46:36,599
for since at least the 2010

2078
01:46:36,599 --> 01:46:39,280
comprehensive plan and many permits had

2079
01:46:39,280 --> 01:46:40,960
been issued and mitigation work rating

2080
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:44,280
work had been done and some utility work

2081
01:46:44,280 --> 01:46:46,080
and so it's not as though the zoning

2082
01:46:46,080 --> 01:46:47,440
administrator the Planning and Zoning

2083
01:46:47,440 --> 01:46:49,440
commission had not known of these

2084
01:46:49,440 --> 01:46:56,950
projects and that they were planned for a long time

2085
01:46:56,960 --> 01:46:58,480
you'll recall that because there are

2086
01:46:58,480 --> 01:47:00,880
critical area site plan reviews it

2087
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:03,040
triggers the 60-day review requirement

2088
01:47:03,040 --> 01:47:05,679
under your ordinance and I just want to

2089
01:47:05,679 --> 01:47:07,800
address that some people in thinking

2090
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:09,679
about the fairness of the delay some

2091
01:47:09,679 --> 01:47:11,679
people may find the 60-day deadline for

2092
01:47:11,679 --> 01:47:13,599
processing critical area site plans

2093
01:47:13,599 --> 01:47:15,520
inconvenient or even

2094
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,599
unreasonable or point out that it's not

2095
01:47:17,599 --> 01:47:20,440
typically followed and none of those are

2096
01:47:20,440 --> 01:47:24,199
reasons to ignore a statutory deadline

2097
01:47:24,199 --> 01:47:26,639
passed by the legislative body of the

2098
01:47:26,639 --> 01:47:28,840
town and is part of the law applicable

2099
01:47:28,840 --> 01:47:30,239
to the rod and reel's

2100
01:47:30,239 --> 01:47:32,040
applications neither the zoning

2101
01:47:32,040 --> 01:47:33,480
administrator nor the Planning and

2102
01:47:33,480 --> 01:47:35,280
Zoning commission get to Simply ignore

2103
01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:36,800
such a statutory command because they

2104
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:39,639
view it as unreasonable impracticable or

2105
01:47:39,639 --> 01:47:45,870
similarly or simply

2106
01:47:45,880 --> 01:47:49,080
undesirable furthermore the the debate

2107
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:50,679
that we've heard from some questions

2108
01:47:50,679 --> 01:47:55,239
from the audience about this subject um

2109
01:47:55,239 --> 01:47:57,239
the history of compliance with this

2110
01:47:57,239 --> 01:47:59,800
deadline misses two critical legal

2111
01:47:59,800 --> 01:48:01,760
points that have nothing to do with

2112
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:04,280
practicality or the delays the the

2113
01:48:04,280 --> 01:48:06,400
deadlines

2114
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:08,480
reasonableness we demonstrated that the

2115
01:48:08,480 --> 01:48:09,960
obligation of the zoning administrator

2116
01:48:09,960 --> 01:48:11,760
and the commission to process properly

2117
01:48:11,760 --> 01:48:14,400
filed applications includes the site

2118
01:48:14,400 --> 01:48:16,599
plans those are in the town's laws

2119
01:48:16,599 --> 01:48:18,920
mandatory obligations there are two

2120
01:48:18,920 --> 01:48:21,360
reasons why this 60-day requirement is

2121
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:24,000
particularly relevant in this

2122
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:27,840
case first because it reconfirms the

2123
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,920
mandate to process site plans and

2124
01:48:29,920 --> 01:48:33,629
establishes a

2125
01:48:33,639 --> 01:48:36,280
timeline second and perhaps most

2126
01:48:36,280 --> 01:48:38,760
importantly from a legal perspective at

2127
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:41,080
least it reinforces that the Mandate

2128
01:48:41,080 --> 01:48:43,320
flows from a

2129
01:48:43,320 --> 01:48:47,360
statute the Mandate flows from a

2130
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:50,159
statute it is the Mandate and the effect

2131
01:48:50,159 --> 01:48:53,599
of the 60-day deadline that because they

2132
01:48:53,599 --> 01:48:56,520
statutory their effectiveness and their

2133
01:48:56,520 --> 01:48:59,320
applicability can only be modified by a

2134
01:48:59,320 --> 01:49:02,229
legislative

2135
01:49:02,239 --> 01:49:05,000
act this provision of the town's zoning

2136
01:49:05,000 --> 01:49:06,960
ordinance is important because it means

2137
01:49:06,960 --> 01:49:09,679
that a moratorium changing the effect

2138
01:49:09,679 --> 01:49:10,599
and

2139
01:49:10,599 --> 01:49:13,199
applicability of the statute is

2140
01:49:13,199 --> 01:49:14,920
legislative in

2141
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:17,119
nature and it is of a general

2142
01:49:17,119 --> 01:49:18,560
applicability and

2143
01:49:18,560 --> 01:49:21,159
effect and as we've argued that must be

2144
01:49:21,159 --> 01:49:22,880
passed by an ordinance not a resolution

2145
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:24,119
to be legally

2146
01:49:24,119 --> 01:49:26,320
effective that has nothing to do with

2147
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:27,960
whether the 60-day deadline is

2148
01:49:27,960 --> 01:49:30,480
reasonable or practical it's

2149
01:49:30,480 --> 01:49:33,159
demonstrating that the ability of the

2150
01:49:33,159 --> 01:49:36,040
town to change that deadline must be

2151
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:42,030
done in the proper

2152
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:44,880
fashion in the absence of a statutory

2153
01:49:44,880 --> 01:49:47,880
deadline imposed or Mand on a mandated

2154
01:49:47,880 --> 01:49:50,719
act by administrative a agents such as

2155
01:49:50,719 --> 01:49:51,800
the zoning administrator and the

2156
01:49:51,800 --> 01:49:53,400
commission

2157
01:49:53,400 --> 01:49:55,199
they would typically have to so say

2158
01:49:55,199 --> 01:49:57,400
there was no deadline in the statute

2159
01:49:57,400 --> 01:49:59,400
they would typically have to act with

2160
01:49:59,400 --> 01:50:01,280
due diligence and in a reasonable period

2161
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:04,080
of time and another reason why this

2162
01:50:04,080 --> 01:50:07,639
60-day deadline is relevant to this case

2163
01:50:07,639 --> 01:50:10,639
is that it helps the provide the context

2164
01:50:10,639 --> 01:50:13,159
of what is a reasonable period of time

2165
01:50:13,159 --> 01:50:14,280
so if

2166
01:50:14,280 --> 01:50:18,360
you if you're asking was it reasonable

2167
01:50:18,360 --> 01:50:22,280
to wait 3 years and still hasn't started

2168
01:50:22,280 --> 01:50:24,920
the process processing the 60-day

2169
01:50:24,920 --> 01:50:27,719
deadline helps inform you of what is

2170
01:50:27,719 --> 01:50:30,239
reasonable because that's what the

2171
01:50:30,239 --> 01:50:33,119
legislature of the Town decided should

2172
01:50:33,119 --> 01:50:36,149
be

2173
01:50:36,159 --> 01:50:38,880
done even if the board were to find that

2174
01:50:38,880 --> 01:50:42,000
my arguments about the impropriety of

2175
01:50:42,000 --> 01:50:45,679
passing a moratorium impacting statutory

2176
01:50:45,679 --> 01:50:48,440
statutorily defined duties by a simple

2177
01:50:48,440 --> 01:50:51,639
resolution and not an ordinance being

2178
01:50:51,639 --> 01:50:53,639
unpersuasive

2179
01:50:53,639 --> 01:50:55,159
the board would still need to consider

2180
01:50:55,159 --> 01:50:56,679
whether the zoning administrator and the

2181
01:50:56,679 --> 01:50:58,960
Planning and Zoning commission acted

2182
01:50:58,960 --> 01:51:00,920
reasonably in failing to commence the

2183
01:51:00,920 --> 01:51:03,599
review of the rotten re site plans I

2184
01:51:03,599 --> 01:51:05,679
submit that even if they believe the

2185
01:51:05,679 --> 01:51:07,520
moratorium to be

2186
01:51:07,520 --> 01:51:09,800
effective it was not reasonable to

2187
01:51:09,800 --> 01:51:12,760
continue to refu refuse to process the

2188
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:16,239
site plans after the moratorium had

2189
01:51:16,239 --> 01:51:18,880
expired and regardless of the moratorium

2190
01:51:18,880 --> 01:51:21,960
it was certainly not a reasonable delay

2191
01:51:21,960 --> 01:51:24,119
of site plan review when it's been over

2192
01:51:24,119 --> 01:51:28,709
3

2193
01:51:28,719 --> 01:51:31,440
years I'll remind you that we've already

2194
01:51:31,440 --> 01:51:35,040
produced the evidence that the

2195
01:51:35,040 --> 01:51:38,079
moratorium was destined to last one year

2196
01:51:38,079 --> 01:51:40,920
until Mr pal said No it's it's

2197
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:42,440
indefinite B well he didn't say it's

2198
01:51:42,440 --> 01:51:44,040
indefinite he said it was terminated

2199
01:51:44,040 --> 01:51:46,239
only upon the act of the Planning and

2200
01:51:46,239 --> 01:51:51,520
Zoning commission and the um Town

2201
01:51:51,520 --> 01:51:55,629
Council

2202
01:51:55,639 --> 01:51:58,000
the other thing I want to make clear in

2203
01:51:58,000 --> 01:52:00,599
the context of the reasonableness

2204
01:52:00,599 --> 01:52:03,990
argument

2205
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:06,639
is we don't challenge the authority of

2206
01:52:06,639 --> 01:52:08,320
the mayor and Town Council to pass a

2207
01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:11,440
legislation imposing a zoning moratorium

2208
01:52:11,440 --> 01:52:13,040
they have that

2209
01:52:13,040 --> 01:52:15,480
power however to do so they must do it

2210
01:52:15,480 --> 01:52:17,920
in the correct Manner and they must act

2211
01:52:17,920 --> 01:52:20,079
in accordance with the

2212
01:52:20,079 --> 01:52:22,119
law in order for the zoning

2213
01:52:22,119 --> 01:52:23,920
Administration TR to and the Planning

2214
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:25,599
and Zoning commission to rely upon it

2215
01:52:25,599 --> 01:52:28,079
and use such a moratorium as the

2216
01:52:28,079 --> 01:52:30,079
justification for refusing to process

2217
01:52:30,079 --> 01:52:31,360
the site

2218
01:52:31,360 --> 01:52:35,280
plans it must have been done in a legal

2219
01:52:35,280 --> 01:52:37,560
fashion I'll remind you also that we

2220
01:52:37,560 --> 01:52:39,239
already have produced the evidence that

2221
01:52:39,239 --> 01:52:41,480
we advised the town before they even

2222
01:52:41,480 --> 01:52:44,239
passed the moratorium that passing it

2223
01:52:44,239 --> 01:52:46,920
through a resolution was invalid so they

2224
01:52:46,920 --> 01:52:51,430
had

2225
01:52:51,440 --> 01:52:53,880
notice

2226
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:55,760
if the moratorium that the Town Council

2227
01:52:55,760 --> 01:52:57,560
had tried to impose had been passed

2228
01:52:57,560 --> 01:52:58,639
through an

2229
01:52:58,639 --> 01:53:00,560
ordinance which was the required

2230
01:53:00,560 --> 01:53:03,199
legislative mechanism with all the due

2231
01:53:03,199 --> 01:53:05,760
process protections offered by the town

2232
01:53:05,760 --> 01:53:07,480
Charter and Maryland law that we've

2233
01:53:07,480 --> 01:53:10,360
covered then the moratorium could have

2234
01:53:10,360 --> 01:53:12,719
been valid if it was for a reasonable

2235
01:53:12,719 --> 01:53:15,000
time period so that's the second

2236
01:53:15,000 --> 01:53:18,880
standard it's not just whether the

2237
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:21,760
moratorium that was passed was done

2238
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:23,000
correctly

2239
01:53:23,000 --> 01:53:25,400
what's the reasonable period for such a

2240
01:53:25,400 --> 01:53:29,040
moratorium if in if in

2241
01:53:29,040 --> 01:53:31,400
effect you'll recall that in the very

2242
01:53:31,400 --> 01:53:33,719
beginning of this proceeding in almost

2243
01:53:33,719 --> 01:53:36,000
the very beginning of the hearing I I

2244
01:53:36,000 --> 01:53:38,239
described the interrelationship between

2245
01:53:38,239 --> 01:53:41,599
the zoning laws and the property rights

2246
01:53:41,599 --> 01:53:51,430
and that's where this comes

2247
01:53:51,440 --> 01:53:53,400
due

2248
01:53:53,400 --> 01:53:56,079
if the moratorium had been passed

2249
01:53:56,079 --> 01:53:57,320
through an

2250
01:53:57,320 --> 01:54:00,920
ordinance our only alternative basis for

2251
01:54:00,920 --> 01:54:02,480
challenging the zoning administrator and

2252
01:54:02,480 --> 01:54:04,679
commission's refusal to process the site

2253
01:54:04,679 --> 01:54:07,079
plans would be based on either the

2254
01:54:07,079 --> 01:54:09,040
length of the

2255
01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:12,280
delay or as was argued by Mr pounds in

2256
01:54:12,280 --> 01:54:15,239
his letter of May 25th 2022 that you

2257
01:54:15,239 --> 01:54:18,119
have in evidence that the moratorium was

2258
01:54:18,119 --> 01:54:19,800
only terminated by the subsequent action

2259
01:54:19,800 --> 01:54:20,960
of the Town Council and Planning

2260
01:54:20,960 --> 01:54:24,830
Commission that's exhibit 33

2261
01:54:24,840 --> 01:54:27,000
and under Mr pound's interpretation set

2262
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:28,920
forth in that letter it would mean that

2263
01:54:28,920 --> 01:54:30,760
the moratorium was of an indefinite

2264
01:54:30,760 --> 01:54:33,239
duration when

2265
01:54:33,239 --> 01:54:35,920
passed otherwise the one-year period

2266
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:38,639
described in the moratorium

2267
01:54:38,639 --> 01:54:42,360
resolution that it extended the nemon

2268
01:54:42,360 --> 01:54:45,360
with a three additional months wouldn't

2269
01:54:45,360 --> 01:54:46,280
have

2270
01:54:46,280 --> 01:54:48,159
mattered

2271
01:54:48,159 --> 01:54:50,079
and the commission would have been

2272
01:54:50,079 --> 01:54:52,440
required to take up those um

2273
01:54:52,440 --> 01:54:54,280
applications after the expiration of

2274
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:57,159
that one year you'll recall that we

2275
01:54:57,159 --> 01:55:00,920
produced evidence that 60 days after the

2276
01:55:00,920 --> 01:55:02,560
expiration of one year after the

2277
01:55:02,560 --> 01:55:04,560
moratorium I wrote a letter to the

2278
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:06,360
Planning and Zoning commission and the

2279
01:55:06,360 --> 01:55:08,480
zoning administrator demanding that now

2280
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:11,159
that the moratorium expired we wanted

2281
01:55:11,159 --> 01:55:12,280
site plan

2282
01:55:12,280 --> 01:55:14,880
review we waited the 60 days to see

2283
01:55:14,880 --> 01:55:21,310
whether they met their obligation just

2284
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:27,669
naturally

2285
01:55:27,679 --> 01:55:29,199
at this time the Town Council had not

2286
01:55:29,199 --> 01:55:31,159
yet passed the comprehensive plan much

2287
01:55:31,159 --> 01:55:32,840
less the implementing ordinances that

2288
01:55:32,840 --> 01:55:35,360
would affect the site plan

2289
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:38,840
review so as you can see in the timeline

2290
01:55:38,840 --> 01:55:49,229
that occurred in April of TW

2291
01:55:49,239 --> 01:55:53,079
2022 so then even after the Town Council

2292
01:55:53,079 --> 01:55:57,280
passed its March 16th 2023 resolution

2293
01:55:57,280 --> 01:56:01,199
which is after we had filed this

2294
01:56:01,199 --> 01:56:04,079
appeal like nine months

2295
01:56:04,079 --> 01:56:06,000
after

2296
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,440
um the zoning administrator and planning

2297
01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:10,520
and zoning commission still failed to

2298
01:56:10,520 --> 01:56:12,920
take up the site plan

2299
01:56:12,920 --> 01:56:15,599
applications so far that delay is three

2300
01:56:15,599 --> 01:56:18,440
years I submit that the length of such a

2301
01:56:18,440 --> 01:56:20,520
moratorium becomes unreasonable burden

2302
01:56:20,520 --> 01:56:23,119
on the Roden reel's property rights

2303
01:56:23,119 --> 01:56:25,560
then and therefore legally suspect when

2304
01:56:25,560 --> 01:56:27,199
it exceeds one

2305
01:56:27,199 --> 01:56:30,800
year 3 years is certainly too

2306
01:56:30,800 --> 01:56:33,239
long especially when the justification

2307
01:56:33,239 --> 01:56:35,639
given to complete the comprehensive plan

2308
01:56:35,639 --> 01:56:37,760
and implementing ordinance had failed to

2309
01:56:37,760 --> 01:56:41,199
meet both the deadlines of the Town law

2310
01:56:41,199 --> 01:56:51,229
and Maryland

2311
01:56:51,239 --> 01:56:57,270
law

2312
01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,719
I'm about ready

2313
01:56:59,719 --> 01:57:03,159
to go into a different topic have about

2314
01:57:03,159 --> 01:57:05,400
five minutes left so it might be it it

2315
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:06,960
probably is going to go well beyond that

2316
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:09,400
which is why I'm kind of flagging it so

2317
01:57:09,400 --> 01:57:12,000
if I this might be a good stopping point

2318
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:13,840
because the next topic is all kind of

2319
01:57:13,840 --> 01:57:15,440
together I have one

2320
01:57:15,440 --> 01:57:19,280
minute um what and you can time me uh

2321
01:57:19,280 --> 01:57:21,119
what what is the purpose of the because

2322
01:57:21,119 --> 01:57:23,560
he's been going on for some time about

2323
01:57:23,560 --> 01:57:27,040
his opinion with regard to the issues of

2324
01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:29,000
whether the moratorium should have been

2325
01:57:29,000 --> 01:57:30,719
you know by an ordinance or by

2326
01:57:30,719 --> 01:57:32,280
resolution and I can appreciate his

2327
01:57:32,280 --> 01:57:35,159
opinion and and whether we're going to

2328
01:57:35,159 --> 01:57:37,199
be getting into that indeed Council

2329
01:57:37,199 --> 01:57:39,159
actually is the body that runs the town

2330
01:57:39,159 --> 01:57:40,159
and we're going to be getting into that

2331
01:57:40,159 --> 01:57:44,000
later on but one thing I wanted to point

2332
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:49,310
out how about how about 30 seconds

2333
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:53,760
now I don't think so

2334
01:57:53,760 --> 01:57:55,960
I am I think I'm aware of where you're

2335
01:57:55,960 --> 01:57:57,400
going with it and I sure would like to

2336
01:57:57,400 --> 01:57:58,920
hear it in your section of the

2337
01:57:58,920 --> 01:58:00,840
presentation I I can tell you I don't

2338
01:58:00,840 --> 01:58:02,360
think you are aware of it and I can tell

2339
01:58:02,360 --> 01:58:03,639
you in 30 seconds because this is going

2340
01:58:03,639 --> 01:58:07,840
to change everything he just said that's that's why I don't want to hear

2341
01:58:07,840 --> 01:58:09,719
it we're still in the midst of Mr

2342
01:58:09,719 --> 01:58:12,239
blitz's testimony we owe him a chance to

2343
01:58:12,239 --> 01:58:14,679
get through his portion in which case

2344
01:58:14,679 --> 01:58:17,679
you may State your position and we will

2345
01:58:17,679 --> 01:58:19,679
apply the exact same rules to Mr Blitz

2346
01:58:19,679 --> 01:58:21,119
where you may go and give your

2347
01:58:21,119 --> 01:58:25,320
interpretation on moratoriums and uh

2348
01:58:25,320 --> 01:58:28,199
legales and we will let you do it um we

2349
01:58:28,199 --> 01:58:31,119
will do it during your time

2350
01:58:31,119 --> 01:58:33,360
so ah

2351
01:58:33,360 --> 01:58:38,320
okay the next meeting is scheduled for

2352
01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:42,320
April 17th at 6:30 p.m. we'll do the

2353
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:46,440
same uh same thing two hours um for

2354
01:58:46,440 --> 01:58:49,040
everyone's awareness um so at this point

2355
01:58:49,040 --> 01:58:50,679
in time I'll entertain a motion to

2356
01:58:50,679 --> 01:58:53,440
adjourn the meeting until April 17th at

2357
01:58:53,440 --> 01:58:54,880
6:30

2358
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,599
p.m. I will make that motion I have a

2359
01:58:57,599 --> 01:59:00,719
second second all in favor I we're

2360
01:59:00,719 --> 01:59:05,709
adjourned thank you

2361
01:59:05,719 --> 01:59:08,719
everybody