yes
e
e e
everybody good anybody need
any I should just gave a thumbs up
so uh okay uh thank you welcome
everybody this is the call to order for
the chese beach board of appeals date a
ail 17th
2024 um as an introduction we're here
today to do three things uh first is to
approve the minutes from our last
meeting on March 14th number one number
two is we have some motions to go
through uh from Mr pounds um after we
hear these motions um it's suspected
that we will go into close session to
consult with legal counsel here um and
all that done if time allows we will
resume hearing the case
20233 from Rod and real Don in Estates
uh
yes
uh
sorry uh let me let's get the board
voted in and then we can talk about uh
the the process for the rest of this
meeting um okay so roll call uh as
normal we will uh without board members
please announce that you are present um
let's see Mr Richard Burch is is not
here uh Miss Paul dhy or Mr Paul dhy
present Miss Amy Everett present Mr
stepen Sharp and I am Mr Jody hstar we
had a quorum uh in terms of
recordkeeping Sharon have we received
any public comments in the aside from
the Motions uh from the
attorneys worry about
that uh first agenda item uh is approval
of the meeting minutes uh for case 20233
this one from March 14 2024 did anybody
have any corrections or issues with
those meeting minutes that they
noticed
good hearing none I'll entertain a
motion to approve the minutes I'll make
a motion to approve the minutes I have a
second second all in favor all right
motion passes okay um so now to the how
this is going to work um as normal we're
doing two hours tonight um so we'll end
around around 8:30 uh for the public
this meeting may be entirely procedural
it may be hearing motions And discussing
legal issues in the back room with our
Council um and so for the public if the
legal discussion goes beyond an hour um
we will not be continuing on with the
the presentation we'll cut it off and
we'll start again next time hopefully
that so if if these motions move quicker
than I expect then we can continue and
hear the case if they take longer feel
free to leave and we will try not to um
we won't C cover anything other than
procedural issues so if you're worried
about that we'll pick those up first
thing at the next meeting you know cross
your fingers um but yes if it goes over
an hour there'll be no new content um
and the next session will be on May 29th
2024 at 6:30 pm did I get that right
Sharon okay here yes um all right
motions
um let me
lay out what we have so far and we can
get to your we've received we've
received motions um as the board and I
want
to yes I want to I want those into the
record as they are and then we can
continue over to what do you call a
preemptory super be okay um we're going
to start by today by asking Mr pounds to
verbally summarize the Motions but
actually we'll do that after Mr Blitz uh
a few documents have been received by
the board to be entered into the record
by my accounting we have the following
uh from March 26th we have two letters
slm motions one regarding Mr Woodburn as
a witness and Mr Blitz as well a second
letter regarding Mr susman as witness
witness we then received two letters um
about potential litigation notice on
March
28th um after that April 12th we
received a motion regarding uh
procedural aspects of the hearing um and
April 15th we received a motion
regarding the board of appeals Authority
um at this point I'm going to pause and
ask Mr Blitz to State what it is briefly
uh that that you'd like us to
hear my mic on Eric Blitz on behalf of
the rod reel
um I understand why the board might want
to
consider the documents that it received
in the
interim but all of those documents don't
involve our case they really involve Mr
pound's case
and constantly my case is being
interrupted by circus
Antics I have a whole another motion on
the all these expart communications
following your rules of procedure so
I'll make that when you're ready to hear
that but
I would ask that instead we'll be
allowed to put on the balance of our
case first so that we can get our case
done I would like to have our case
submitted of course we have you know
have a rebuttal to anything that's added
by other parties and maybe there'll be
Ser rebuttal and things like that but I
would like to get our case done it's the
only fair way to have our case not
constantly be interrupted Ed by expart
Communications in this instance but
plenty of other arguments that are
really just arguments that in opposition
to what I have made arguments about
that's his turn he he will have his turn
just like any member of the public will
have their turn but instead we're
allowing a process whereby interruptions
are done and I'll point out that these
aren't motions you don't have an an
procedure for motions filed outside the
context of the record I grant that a
procedural motion like a motion for
continuance could always be filed
typically to the chair usually sent to
the attorney so that they could vet it
first but those aren't substantive to
the case those are purely procedure
these letters are all arguments about
the case and my point is there are
interruptions to my case and I'd like to
just go ahead and put on my case now
I respond or
um yes you may respond um well I'm sort
of amused that the refer the references
to CF circus Antics especially since
we're here discussing basically houses
being put in a flood plane um and so
those are facts that are absolutely
Undisputed by by Witnesses put on by the
applicant so uh uh I can tell you that
that is a very concerning
issue with regard to the public health
of the town and the town is considering
it very very serious that indeed you
know something like that would be
advocated at all uh motions the all of
my motions that I've put forward apply
de definit directly to uh issues with
regard to procedural matters and it go
goes directly to various issues of uh
that have been introduced and that are
being brought up and being discussed for
the last I guess it's 23 24 hours now uh
it's been going on and on and on with
regard to these issues and these issues
at least need to be brought before the
board uh on a motion to make sure that
indeed the board is aware that uh there
are major issues with regard to the uh
these issues all together now just
because I file these motions don't
doesn't mean that I'm going to in
essence not be bringing them up later on
but in essence you know part of a motion
practice is to in essence uh try to make
sure that the tri effect or the board in
this case is 100% aware of what is going
on as opposed to just the narrative that
Mr Blitz has been going on about saying
no you need to listen to me going on and
on with without in essence putting
things either in context or making sure
that indeed uh things
are uh as they are supposed to be in the
presentation on so and I'm going to use
the word uh truthful as opposed to all
the facts that are being involved so
motions practice is 100% % appropriate
especially in that this is relating to
procedural aspects of where we are where
this case is going and uh so you know
circus tactics motions are certainly
appropriate in any type of case and
that's what we're doing
here um so we've received your letters
we've heard what you said I would like I
would like to consult with legal counsel
but first I would like a brief summary
and like one by one of each motion
you're making and at the end I would
like to know what it is the action that
you want the board to take I don't the
thing that I want to I think I want to
lay out here
I I don't want motions for awareness I
want these motions for procedurals like
what do we need to do not that we need
to be aware of something because we I
think very much like to hear the
rebuttal and content of your side of the
presentation but I'm not entirely sure
it's appropriate in terms of content for
that to be in a motion so make your
motions summarize them and then tell us
exactly what it is that you want the
board to do right now we will then take
those consider whether or not we need to
go into uh consult with the legal
council and then we will come back so we
could to go one by one one by one if you
would um we've all read the letters um
if you give a brief summary and then
tell us what it is that you expect us to
do with
that uh first of all we begin with the
March 26th letter um and I have the
highest respect and admiration for Mr
susman except for the fact that we do
have a situation in which you know from
where everything I have seen uh he has
in essence injected himself as a witness
to these proceedings uh really as a
witness as to three aspects number one
is with regard to uh an ordinance versus
resolution one of the things that uh is
fun Al to the pl applicants case is that
in essence that the council somehow
filed the wrong proceeding and and and
they filed a resolution rather than an
ordinance and if Mr susman indeed
believes that the ordinance is should
have been the proper mechanism that was
done by Council Mr susman is indeed a
being paid by the town he is a town
attorney and a town uh being
representated by the town if indeed he
did not think that that was an
appropriate measure then indeed he
should have told the Town Council right
away uh that this becomes a serious
issue because now indeed if he has the
opinion that somehow someway the Town
Council made an improper motion and
somehow someway the board of appeals has
the authority to overrule the Town
Council then then the question comes
into why wait all this time to in
essence present the opinion to the the
board of appeals rather than presenting
it to the Town Council when indeed it
should have happened from the from the
beginning okay so and at the end of this
motion or in this case you want to quit
to question Mr sus that is the outcome
of this motion that that basically is
where it's going yes um this is one I'm
going to deny outright we can't actually
Discman because he's our legal counsel
and this about him but the ability of
the board to consult with its hired
counsel um we're not we're not going to
discuss that this one is outright
tonight okay well to the second and and
just to make sure I put it on the record
like I said the issue comes into if if
indeed and this is what is going to be
you know either now or sometime in the
future if there was any discussion
whatsoever about the issue of resolution
versus ordinance then uh in in Ence if
that was ever brought up to the board
that way he becomes an expert witness
and indeed subject to cross-examination
as opposed to someone who just is giving
legal counsel to the board so that is
what in essence this is going so
objecting to that we're not we're not
talking
about um and also next just be heard
briefly
very I know you just ruled against the
motion but there's lots of reasons why I
should put things on the record as to
why that motion should be denied that
should be in the record so that when if
it's challenged in the
future they hear my side of why that
motion should be denied I thought you
were really just going through and
asking Mr pounds what the concrete
things are not his arguments he just
made an argument for that entire motion
yes how if if he's going to be given the
opportunity to make the entire argument
for a motion the applicant and certainly
third other parties have the right to
weigh in on that motion before it's
disposed of for the record fair um would
you like to submit that in writing is
that good enough or would you rather
state
you rather be granted a chance to
stay I have no op for all the rest of
the Motions as well just for the this
one is specific because we're not
considering this is one where we can't
go into consult with our legal counsel
about his legal count so this is one
unfortunately we have no one to ask
about um so this one's getting special
treatment so if you'd like
to I'm entirely happy to accept writing
on this considering it was denied and
and enter it into the record
uh both parties if you if you would like
to have your thoughts on the denial of
this be put into the record that is fine
and writing I kind of I kind of feel
like we have a lot of stuff to do and
I'd like to move on to the next ones we
discuss
but up to you
Mr
oh first did you deny my motion to have
our case heard first before these
motions um which is fine if that I'm not
denying it I don't I don't I hear I hear
what you're saying
and I would like to hear the lay of the
land and go back and speak with our
legal counsel and then come back and
rule on all of these at once that's okay
then I think I am Duty bound to put
certain things in the record with
respect to all these as X part
communication
so I would like to be heard on that
issue now so that you in the context of
all of these things that are somehow
being converted to
motions you understand because I think
it was absolutely wrongful for this
board to have heard all of this outside
the context of the
record and I want there are things in
your roles and there's certain due
process rights that are guaranteed by
Maryland law with respect to EXP parte
Communications this board can be the
action of this board if you rely on
evidence that is
expar and you've said that everybody's
read
these outside of the context of a
hearing that's a violation and it and it
impacts my client so I would like to be
heard on the
exes let's let's we will do that second
let's finish up with this first when it
regards Mr tossman are we how do we want
to submit any on this motion on this
motion I will follow it up with in
writing following up in writing okay um
we will now we're going to split this up
into two now I'm going to we're going to
hear about uh expar Communications I'm
going to ask the board whether we want
to discuss it with legal counsel and
then we will come back very very very
briefly it's not an exp part a
communication if I send everything to
the entire board if you're communicating
to one party you know especially with a
motion to the entire board that's not
expart communication everybody's
informed of it let's not get
I don't obviously have the expertise to
weigh in on on what this is I need this
laid out so that we can discuss with our
legal counil and he can tell us what it
is that we're doing what we're allowed
to do what we're not allowed to do the
rest of this is just a lot of words so
let's start with Mr Blitz you are making
a motion that so I guess the the
original motion to hear to finish your
um your presentation is denied so that
you can
enter this one about exp parte
communication which we can then
consider maybe with legal counsel we
allow Mr pounds to uh briefly speak
after please okay so I'm making an
objection to M Mr pound's persistent
violation of the board's rule against
exp party Communications by sending
letters being distributed to the entire
board outside the context of the
record which introduces facts not in
evidence makes arguments against the
Roden re's case and thus uses
Communications between hearings as a
means of intervening in the presentation
of the rod and reels
case rather than wait his turn during
the this proceeding the board's chair
has consistently stated that after the
rod and reel's case Mr pounds would be
and other parties would be allowed to
present their
case on March 26th clerk to the board
distributed to the entire membership of
the board and others who are not parties
to this case two letters of that same
date from Mr pounds one with the
regarding line Mr Woodburn as a witness
and another with regarding line Mr
suspen as a witness these letters
included allegations or purported facts
not contained within the
record on March 28th 2024 the clerk to
the board distributed to the entire
membership of the board and others who
are not parties to this case a letter
from M Mr on the same date attaching his
letter from Kurt fiser of the law firm
of Venable LLP that is not in the
record on April 12th 2024 the clerk to
the board distributed to the entire
membership of the board into an even
larger list of people a letter from Mr
pounds to the board of the same date
reporting to make
allegations um I apologize reporting to
make a motion outside the context of the
record about substantive matters of the
case
that include allegations or purported
facts not contained within the
record I will also point out that while
a party to this case can certainly make
a motion during the
hearing we're doing that now right the
board has no rule in its published rules
of procedure that allows motions to be
made through expart
Communications while the chair may have
a residual authority to rule on
procedural motions in between hearings
such as a request for postponement or
continuance is if some emergent
fact somebody got sick or something like
that um such motions cannot be arguments
about the merits of the case and cannot
provide facts to the board about the
substance of the case not already in the
record on April 15 2024 the clerk to the
board distributed to the entire
membership of the board and to many
others party not party to the case a
letter from Mr pounds to the board of
the same
date reporting additional motions again
introducing facts not in the record and
making arguments against the Roden reels
case in the middle of the Roden re's
case it's wholly
inappropriate I can argue against the
substance of the allegations and
arguments contained in these expart
communications at the appropriate time
but the Board needs to seriously
consider the
remedy that should be applied
against Mr pounds and his client for
deliberately filing expart
Communications containing substantive
arguments in the case and introducing
facts not in the
record I want the board to know that
after the first two letters of Mr pounds
on March 28th I wrote a letter to Mr
susman delivered by email complaining
about the EXP parte Communications and
Mr pounds was copied on that email and
letter therefore after the first two
xart a letters and seat of my letter
complaining about exp parte
Communications Mr pounds sent two more
letters and considering the remedy I
would like to you to point out to you
why expart Communications such as these
are so
unfair and dangerous to the proper
administration of this
hearing first only things in the record
during the Open Session become a part of
the record in this case and are
appropriate for consideration by the
board the record is also important
because that's the scope and extent
which can be typically considered by a
reviewing Court second as you have seen
throughout this hearing when a party
wants to make an objection to the
introduction of evidence they need to
make that objection at the time it's
being
introduced we do that so that the board
is not able to consider information that
it shouldn't properly consider whether
it's for relevance or other evidentiary
reasons but with an exp parte
communication
that includes information provided
that's not under
oath and in between the hearings then
there's no way to make an objection to
either the procedural or substantive
objections to that evidence being now
considered by the board thus the board
is given information outside the record
without the opportunity for other
parties to argue the evidence is
improper or relevant to the issues in
the case I will note
I'm not the only party everybody in the
public who has testified or signed up to
testify is a party to this case under
Maryland law they were entitled to get a
copy of these letters wasn't sent to
them they are entitled to make the same
complaint I'm making about expart
Communications and to make the same
objections but they may not even know
about it and that's why expart
Communications like this are so
dangerous
third if expart Communications are
relied upon by the board
that can be a violation of the party's
due process rights under Maryland law if
you as board members read these letters
or presented new facts and arguments
when I on behalf of the Roden reel or
other parties to the case have no
opportunity to be
heard on an objection to the
presentation of that
evidence then the party sending the up
the expart communication gains an unfair
advantage over all the other
parties now you read into the record
that they were the the letters and I was
bringing them because I thought they had
to become exhibits have they now become
exhibits and if so are the exhibit
numbers uh I am not sure on well I'm
going to be a major objection I
mean okay so I
will
submit for the
record the email I received as well as
the letter that was
attached dated March
26th
2024 somehow I got it out of
order as exhibit Sharon are we on
60 64
I would then like to
submit the email I received as well as
the letter of March 28 2024 which also
has an attached letter dated February
7th
2024 which is a notice under the local
government
insurance uh Tor claim act um as
65 you say is again what are these two
so this is the email I received on
march8 as well as the attached letter
from Mr
pounds dated March 28 and the attack
attached to his letter was feary 724
letter from Mr kurer to
other that
is five is the mark
20181 next I would like to
introduce the email I received on April
12th
2024 with the attachment which is a
letter from Mr pound of that same date
April 12
2024 as exhibit
66
right next I would like to introduce as
an exhibit the email I received on April
15 2024 with the attached letter from Mr
pounds dated April 15
2024 as exhibit
67 so was there anything in the letters
that I read at the beginning March 26
two
letters one of which was
the March 28th April 12th and April
15 those are all in the record now love
Json yes um chair hstar I'd also like to
uh submit for the record my letter to
Fred susman dated March 28
2024 which I referenced in my
argument so to be
clear though my communication to of
March 28th 2022 24 to Mr
susman copi to Mr pounds was designed to
let Mr pounds know that my objection to
such
letters about expart
Communications I do not mean to imply in
any way that Mr susman participated or
consented to such expart
Communications that happened after my
letter Mr susman can't be held
responsible for the improper acts of Mr
pounds I know not that section 16 of the
board's rules of procedure addresses
prohibited exp parte
Communications in subsection
B the remedy for expart communications
is to place on the record all written
Communications received and there after
any party to the proceeding has five
days to request an opportunity to rebut
the
communication and I stress that includes
all
parties I'm hereby making the
EST for
the following
relief and some of it has been kind of
supervened by the way this is gone but
I'll just make it so you understand the
point of
my remedy re
requests first did I be able to make
rebuttal arguments against the letter
prior to any supplemental arguments of
Mr pounds in recognition of the harm
introduced by sending exp parte
Communications that any information
second that any information contained
within the letters that was not already
in the record as of the end of the last
hearing which was March 14
2024 not be admitted into the record as
substantive
facts
third yes what was that one okay that
any information contained within the
letters that was not already in the
record as of the end of the last
hearing which was held on March 14th
2024 not be admitted into the record as
substantive
facts
third all arguments contained within
such letters be stricken from
consideration by the
board and fourth that Mr pounds may
offer those facts and arguments on the
record in open public hearings during
his presentation subject to the rod and
reel and any other parties or the
board's chair or the chair to make
objections as to the information as
provided you repeat that last one yes
that Mr pound despite having in in two
and three that the facts are
stricken and the arguments I mean the
facts are not admitted into the record
and this the uh third is that the argu
contained or stricken that Mr pounds be
able to make those arguments in his
case subject to our rights and everybody
else's party's rights to make objections
as that evidence comes
in because included within all that was
a lot of information not in the
record and arguments that are all
arguments against our case
and therefore as a relief to the expart
communications we should have the
ability to address those
first um would you like to say anything
at this point Mr BRS outside of the
content um that Mr Blitz is objecting to
absolutely um what's interesting is that
you know it was discussion about uh you
know inappropriate conduct which is fine
but I've never had a case in which we've
had almost 24 4 hours now of straight
narrative um and then you know it's sort
of like not Witnesses or not evidence
being just a straight talk and straight
narrative and basically that's what
that's what this has been going on uh as
well as the fact that you know we've
been and I'm nearly not even sure which
we're going to be getting you know later
on in these motions at what point Mr
Blitz was actually still under oath um I
mean when when did the at the end of the
last meeting the last hearing comes up
and he says I'm not this is not
testimony I'm not under e okay so when
did it stop when did it start and at
some point in time did we have sort of a
whim as to when did it stop and sort so
as far as you know improper conduct you
know that's fine as well as the fact
that you know we're going to be delving
into you know the one of the key
evidences that we have that's already
been in evidence uh that is with regard
to the permits which were issued before
um no content we're not talking about
content okay but no I'm just just
talking about you're not I'm not but the
fact that we're going to be Dev delving
into that so um uh you know as far as
you know improper conduct we will be you
know definitely you know do doing that
um you know as far as you know the
remedies are concerned uh I didn't catch
the first one what was the first one
again uh to allow a rebuttal uh so pause
on everything allow if I'm understanding
right allow Mr Blitz and any members of
the public who wish to uh view these new
exhibits uh to give them 5 days to
submit rebuttal to the town hall I right
that's a given I mean that's that's fine
I mean before you get
to uh discuss
them so the paper the the hard copy
letters allow people to submit
supplemental information before we talk
about the content of those letters did I
am I getting this right that's
correct okay so so you want to postpone
this hearing until next time and we can
submit it to the St I don't want
postpone this hearing I want to I want
to do this um so I want to
discuss um this allowing rebuttal uh not
admitting uh into the record of
substandard facts uh strict stricken
Arguments for consideration and allow
you to enter them as facts during your
portion of the presentation I want to
talk about that right now um but I'd
like
to if if if um if you're done we I think
can discuss with our legal council can I
question yes yes was your remedy
directed to all of the uh letters it
was well the pro the problem is we
haven't even discussed all the records
and I just want to make sure I'm clear
basically you know there was a question
whether these were going to come into
evidence Mr Blitz admitted them evidence
so they're all in they're all in um but
the question I think is one of order and
who gets it we in the midst of of Mr
blitz's presentation and the question is
whether or not these can interrupt more
than they already have um and the remedy
I think Mr bits is is saying is that the
damage is done but the remedy to not
throwing the whole putting everything
off the rails is to allow response to it
at this point in time and then resuming
his presentation and I'd like to point
out that when we submit those is
exhibits into the record that's because
that's what's required to happen under
your rules of procedure it is typically
the way administrative bodies handle exp
parte Communications that doesn't mean
the facts included in there are then
subject for you to be reviewed they're
not in the record as far as the case
they're there for a any reviewing body
court or otherwise or you to know that
there were expart Communications that
are improper I
mean I I don't want to go any further
understood
okay so at this point um to the
board
um I will entertain a motion to close
the board of appeals hearing under the
statutory authority of the Maryland
annotated code pursuant to the general
provision is article 3305b subsection 7
quote to consult with counsel or obtain
legal advice do I have a second just
just to make sure I'm clear to to
discuss the legal basis of this
objection with our Council and not the
content of letters or arguments made
therein just just the legal just the
legal just the legal of it yep um second
sorry um does anyone make that motion I
make the motion anyone second do I have
a second oh all in favor I I okay the
board is now in closed session uh we're
going to go back in that room discuss
some issues uh we will return here uh
once we've consulted with Council um if
you are are keeping track of time we
have about 25 more minutes so I guess to
the members of the public I suspect that
we will not I'm not going to say
anything
um we'll be
[Music]
back
e
e e
that's
you back there thank
you okay um all right we are resuming um
the chese beach board of appeals um
after consultation with legal counsel
with regard to our legal options this is
the process we will follow
um the board in town will send the new
exhibits 64 through 68 to all parties of
record the letter will include a link to
the town website containing the ex
exhibits and a hard copy of all exhibits
64 to 68 the board agrees that we should
receive rebuttal regarding these
exhibits for the public please submit
letters in writing in rebuttal to the
town clerk for Mr Blitz please submit
rebuttal to the uh content of the
letters specify which content in the
letters that you want stricken from
consideration at this point all rebuttal
including Mr blitzes should be received
by the board by April
30th um in regards to case
20233 this one we will briefly convene
during a separate meeting on May first
that will be devoted only to receiving
the rebuttal into the
record are there any questions or
clarifications that are needed at this
time for the May 1 meeting are the
parties going to be here Mr Blitz not
going to be here this is just you this
is just us we are only receiving written
uh written letters into the record and
no nothing else that was going to be
there will be a separate hearing for a
different case at that date but with
regards to 20233 nothing will
happen any further clarification
needed um considering we are uh little
short on time uh
um I guess we are going to consider
adjourning uh at this time I will
entertain a motion to
adjourn I will make that motion to
adjourn I have a sec oh apologies the
date uh the next meeting we will adjourn
until May 29th 2024 at 6:30
pm I second you all in favor all me
thank you everybody
we're done
yeah um well I have it yeah yep