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that's one too Sharon I good all right welcome everybody this is the

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call to order for the chese beach uh

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board of appeals June 18th

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2024 uh as a brief introduction we're

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here today to uh start with some

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administrative business meeting minutes

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and receip of comments uh followed by

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allowing questioning of Mr Donovan and

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Mr Woodburn by folks who have not

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already done so um then questioning of

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Mr blitz's presentation uh and if all

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that wraps up in time we will begin Mr

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pound's presentation

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by house uh we start with the roll call

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I will go around please announce that

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you're present Mr Richard Burch present

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Mr Paul dhy present Everett present I am

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Mr we have a quorum uh we will start

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with the approval of the meeting minutes

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for case

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20233 from the May 29th session both

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open and close uh does any board member

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have issues with the meeting minutes

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they were

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provided hearing none uh I will

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entertain a motion to approve the

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minutes I will make that motion have a

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second second all in favor I right

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approved um okay the board uh is in um

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board acknowledges uh receipt of

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rebuttal

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submissions um in this case for case

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2020 uh

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303 uh regarding exhibit 70 uh we re

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reiterate that the board has read them

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and we'll take them under

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advisement uh Sharon have we received

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any other public com ments no you okay

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we continue on

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um you mind

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proving oh that was his okay yeah all

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right um okay um we continue with case

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20233 Rod real Incorporated Don Estates

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LLC to consider an application from the

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rod real Donovan Estates of 4160 M

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Avenue uh Chesapeake Beach Maryland for

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decision on interpretation or Alle

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alleged error to article 6 section 29023

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29031 A1 and A6 of the chese beach

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zoning ordinance and uh C309 c310 and

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c311 of the Chesapeake Beach Town

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Charter applicant requests that the

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Chesapeake Beach zoning board of appeals

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to quote order the zoning administrator

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and planning and zoning commission to

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immediately commence and prioritize the

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processing and review of the relevant

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site plan submitted by Rod rail

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Incorporated Donovan Estates l

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and that the zoning administrator and

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planning and zoning commission be

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ordered to apply the zoning ordinances

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in effect as of January 29 2021 when the

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applications were submitted and for

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other uh and further relief as the

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nature of their cause

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requires okay uh we are going to move

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into a bit of question and answer um I

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understand that Mr Woodburn needs to

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leave a little bit early so we will

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start with him um this is for anybody

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who has not already questioned Mr

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Woodburn um if you would like to

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uh please step forward and announce who

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you are who you represent and enter your

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name and address on the signing sheet um

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and then we will ask the witness to

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respond to any questions into the mic

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next to Mr

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Blitz Daniel

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deal uh I do have questions but until

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the previous correspondents have been

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replied to I'm uh would hold my question

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so the the problem is that I think this

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is the only time we we've asked the

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witness to come back here um kind of out

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of turn so to rectify um some confusion

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on behalf of the public who didn't who

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weren't clear that they were going to

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get to ask him questions um so I cannot

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he's he's come back today voluntarily um

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and I'm not sure if we will be able to

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provide him again later so um if you

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have questions for the testimony Mr

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Woodburn provided you're welcome to ask

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them yeah but I understand but I mean

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the even now allegations of towards

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board I I I I think

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it yes I do but not at the price that it

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it's a it's just a if the board is going

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to be threatened with a lawsuit if they

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were to look at it I don't see how me

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just a general person from the public

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that has no relation to a new of it

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that's just an observant could find any

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protection I hear

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you he did this did you say your name

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Dan thank you um yeah we at this there's

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going to be more time to talk about

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concerns of the public during the public

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session um this is specific to

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information Mr Woodburn provided so

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you're welcome to bring that up again um

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is there anybody else who would like to

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ask questions to Mr

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Woodburn can you confirm that you have

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not already questioned Mr Woodburn dur I

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have not I think I only question West

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Donovan though though I uh would take

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offense to to that you haven't you

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haven't held anybody else accountable to

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certain Rules and Things so you would

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say that I wouldn't be able to question

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Donovan again as it is I don't have any

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questions for him but no I I have not uh

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questioned the

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engineer no

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see yes okay so Randle Gman 3248 Ana

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Chase chese Beach Maryland

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I have been sworn in

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before I don't know if I need to can you

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hear me

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okay

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so Paul um so so uh you were the town

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engineer were that was that full-time or

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part-time uh part-time part time and and were you the town engineer when the

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projects before the board of appeals

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were

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submitted to the town the projects that

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are currently in yeah no so you weren't

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the town engineer at that time

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no so they didn't have a town engineer

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uh they have I I don't want to speak for

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the town but I believe it's Wayne Newton

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is the town engineer at that time

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yes so so you were not the town engineer

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when these projects came came in you

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were not under any you weren't being

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paid by them at any

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time

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okay most of my questions were based on

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that so

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um so when you went before the Planning

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Commission uh you were just talking

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about the project from uh from the

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standpoint of RNR not from town engineer

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you were you were not the town engineer

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we didn't get to the Planning Commission

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you didn't no uh so you just helped uh

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develop the uh drawings and such so

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that for this for this current here yeah

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for this current hearing um the uh plans

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never made it to the commission they

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didn't get reviewed way I understand it

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so it never made it to that level okay

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so when these plans were originally

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submitted back

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in January 29 2021 2013 or no oh no e

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plans yeah here when plans were origin

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when the when when the first plans were

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submitted uh for these Pro projects were

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you the town engineer at that time so

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you're saying when there was previous

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submittals on these projects not not the

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current application yeah this was a

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reapplication right the other one went

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away the other approval went away in

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2018 right yes I was engaged on projects

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for the town yes so you were engaged on

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projects for the town and you were also

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working on the uh these projects as well

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uh for this

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company um I could yeah probably yeah

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okay back

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then when when when uh so when these

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were submitted to the town you were the

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town

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engineer uh I being paid by the town yes

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to do Town Projects but not the not

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these projects not new developments not

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these projects these projects would be

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reviewed by the zoning administrator

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okay it's not me

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yeah okay let me see if I have any other

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ones that kind of U clarifies it

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out all right

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thanks anyone else like to step forward

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and ask questions of Mr

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Woodburn or any board members as well

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no I'm just trying to remember but you

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were saying you have said in the past to

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correct me if I'm wrong that when these

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plans came in there was another engineer

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you were unsure of who it was that was

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dealing with these plans at that time uh

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I believe is Wayne Newton

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but they never got reviewed so I never

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got anything formal back right some of

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these plans were developed earlier than

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2021 they were there were carryover

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aspects right and you worked for you

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were saying you worked for the town at

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both times so there was previous

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approvals on these sites not the current

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application you this current application

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things changed uh but the uh previous uh

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plans that you know my office would have

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prepared um they would have been

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submitted to the zoning administrator

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and who they when I say they mean the

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town and the zoning administrator used

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to review the plans I I'm not 100% sure

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but I can remember Chris jbak he's the

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zoning administrator at the time um and

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Bill Watson he was the zoning

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administrator before Mr

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jabak um and they did have other uh

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reviewers uh that the town engaged but I

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don't remember all of them

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all right thank you Mr Woodburn thank

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you safe to release him yes have a good

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trip yeah

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appreciate um now the same thing we will

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take questions of Mr Donovan if you have

235
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not already asked Mr Donovan questions

236
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during his previous

237
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testimony please step forward announce

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your name enter on the signning sheet

239
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none do I have to do the same thing or

240
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it's same same

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issue Daniel Deval previous

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Reserve uh any board members have oh

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apologies apologies

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questions of Mr Donovan yes uh if you

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didn't announce your name if you would

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my name is Laura Blackwelder 3256 Canon

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K Court J Beach Maryland

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20732 I just go ahead and start oh yeah

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one

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okay have my written questions with

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me um

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Mr Donovan hello hello uh you had prior

253
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approvals to this during the 2010

254
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comprehensive plan

255
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correct for for all of these site plans

256
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or which ones did you have approvals

257
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for it it definitely wasn't all of them

258
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um and in

259
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2010 we now this is you're tested in my

260
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memory because this is 14 years

261
00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,920
ago

262
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so I don't think we had approvals for

263
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:42,959
any of them I think the previous owner

264
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:47,880
of harba Vista North might have had one

265
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when they owned the property and it stet

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it it was not

267
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um it was not for the 11 tow houses it

268
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was a totally different design and

269
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development but that's really tested my

270
00:14:04,079 --> 00:14:07,600
memory there okay so your testimony is

271
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,480
that none of these particular projects

272
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have ever had approvals no that's not no that's

273
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yeah

274
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appr okay I ask a different question

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maybe I'll rephrase it thank you yeah

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um which of

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these um proposals that as part of your

278
00:14:31,079 --> 00:14:38,389
appeal are you claiming has had previous

279
00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:41,749
approvals

280
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:45,519
um the the same thing applies going back

281
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:47,639
to my knowledge

282
00:14:47,639 --> 00:14:50,160
Harbor now let me think Harbor Vista

283
00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,279
South was previously

284
00:14:52,279 --> 00:14:57,320
approved in 2016 but I think the design

285
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:02,870
changed um

286
00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,480
but it nothing that we submitted

287
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,240
in uh January of

288
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:15,000
21 was exactly the same as the previous

289
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,399
approvals okay so basically anything in

290
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:20,320
this appeal that

291
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,160
claims

292
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,120
that these should have been approved or

293
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,800
the your owed

294
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,240
money um because these were previous ly

295
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,399
approved or somehow you were wronged

296
00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:33,720
because at one time these were approved

297
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,399
and now they're not um and we tar and

298
00:15:37,399 --> 00:15:39,079
the Planning Commission was targeting

299
00:15:39,079 --> 00:15:44,509
you during comprehensive

300
00:15:44,519 --> 00:15:47,240
planning couldn't be true I don't think

301
00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,319
we question just too many C well we've

302
00:15:50,319 --> 00:15:52,480
never made any of those claims but

303
00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,639
you're talking about Miss Blackwater

304
00:15:54,639 --> 00:15:58,079
there there's a lot of um arguments a

305
00:15:58,079 --> 00:15:59,560
lot of arguments have been made that

306
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,800
these have been previously approved and

307
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,800
therefore it is logical to now approve

308
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:06,000
them

309
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,040
again um

310
00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:10,800
so that's okay I I you don't have to

311
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,480
answer that my question to you

312
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:18,199
is if some of these were approved

313
00:16:18,199 --> 00:16:21,440
previously why did you not go through

314
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,230
with your

315
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:26,440
development I'm pretty sure I've already

316
00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,199
testified on that same exact question

317
00:16:29,199 --> 00:16:31,319
you have but you should be allow be

318
00:16:31,319 --> 00:16:33,560
required to ask answer that of Miss

319
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,120
Blackwelder when she crosses so um it

320
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,120
was the financial

321
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:44,199
crisis um was was definitely part of it

322
00:16:44,199 --> 00:16:48,399
and then with Harbor Vista South um when

323
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:50,319
we got that

324
00:16:50,319 --> 00:16:52,680
approval the

325
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,519
construction delays and then I believe

326
00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,480
we were delayed by um I think it was

327
00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:00,959
Army Corps of

328
00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:04,199
Engineers on some of the approvals at

329
00:17:04,199 --> 00:17:06,720
the Ry re Resort

330
00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,600
Redevelopment

331
00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,839
um it we were using that lot as parking

332
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:15,079
for our customers and

333
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:17,400
employees just like we were at harb of

334
00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,640
Vista North and harb of Vista

335
00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:26,160
West um and those delays allowed for the

336
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,080
uh Harbor Vista South

337
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,400
um approval to

338
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,710
lapse

339
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,919
um and Harbor Vista self as the only

340
00:17:37,919 --> 00:17:41,160
site plan that you are claiming had

341
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,360
approval at any given time no I I didn't

342
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:45,200
say

343
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,470
that

344
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:53,520
okay

345
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,840
if you while you let your approval

346
00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,559
elapse MH did you you

347
00:18:00,559 --> 00:18:03,760
revise any other approvals or submit for

348
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:05,280
any other approvals did you build

349
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,240
something else instead of following

350
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,830
through with what you had approval

351
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,240
for we haven't built

352
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,559
anything in the zoning you built the rod

353
00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:16,600
and re

354
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:20,280
Resort well I'm talking about these sure

355
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:24,240
talking about on these five Parcels um

356
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,400
and the zoning changed during the course

357
00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,080
you know so we haven't built

358
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,200
anything right so you had approvals

359
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,799
which gave you the

360
00:18:35,799 --> 00:18:38,320
opportunity to act on your

361
00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,679
approvals however you decided to build

362
00:18:41,679 --> 00:18:42,600
something

363
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,480
else is that

364
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:51,350
correct and you acted on those approvals

365
00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,000
instead

366
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,679
um again we didn't build anything on

367
00:18:56,679 --> 00:18:59,440
these five parcels

368
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:02,080
correct but you did have the opportunity

369
00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,840
to build are you asking if we were still

370
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:06,760
cooking french fries and at the

371
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:08,679
restaurants yeah we were doing both at

372
00:19:08,679 --> 00:19:13,240
the same time putting heads in beds so

373
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,400
you know I I'm not too

374
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840
sure you

375
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,679
know we got the approval for the rod re

376
00:19:21,679 --> 00:19:25,870
development in 2016 the

377
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,120
Redevelopment and we mve forward with

378
00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:30,120
that

379
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:32,320
right you moved

380
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,029
forward and you

381
00:19:36,039 --> 00:19:38,240
revised

382
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:42,400
correct yes and when you revise did you

383
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:48,320
not add 13 or 14 hotel rooms and double

384
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,039
the the space of your gaming facility No

385
00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:53,799
Object just because she's asking about a

386
00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:55,480
development that's not the subject of

387
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,840
any of these applications it just is not

388
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,710
relevant

389
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,159
she's asking about the rod and real

390
00:20:05,159 --> 00:20:06,880
Redevelopment that's a total it's not

391
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,520
subject to this hearing I think that

392
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,360
this speaks for development within the

393
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:13,000
town and

394
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,480
by you know your client I personally

395
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,440
think it does you know have some kind of

396
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,600
relevance at least to be able to hear

397
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,679
it fair enough uh the objection is

398
00:20:24,679 --> 00:20:27,320
overrule you may uh restate and answer

399
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,950
the question

400
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,880
so my question

401
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,919
is you had

402
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:39,880
approvals or you're claiming you had

403
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,360
approval for Harbor Vista

404
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,240
South and you knew that comprehensive

405
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:47,080
planning was

406
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,760
happening and you knew that there were

407
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:56,080
concerns about um capacity and things

408
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,360
like that and you you obviously knew

409
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,600
that there was

410
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,679
a expansion of the gaming

411
00:21:05,679 --> 00:21:08,799
Hall and an expansion of the

412
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:12,440
hotels at the Roden reil site so

413
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,919
wouldn't it have been logical to assume

414
00:21:14,919 --> 00:21:16,840
that during comprehensive

415
00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,080
planning the town might need to adjust

416
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,029
to those things

417
00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:25,559
and why didn't you move forward with the

418
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,840
approvals that you had when it was such

419
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,360
a risk

420
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,440
well I

421
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,480
think you stated a whole lot of opinions

422
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,039
there not relevant facts concerning the

423
00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:41,440
Roden

424
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,919
Redevelopment and I don't remember what

425
00:21:44,919 --> 00:21:48,880
exactly the um traffic study

426
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,400
said

427
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,039
um but we did do a traffic study when we

428
00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:56,120
got the approval for the rotten re

429
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,880
Redevelopment and

430
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,120
um harva Vista South as well

431
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:06,960
and I the the wastewater treatment plant

432
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,960
at the time has plenty had plenty of

433
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,360
capacity as it still does

434
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:16,720
today and the traffic studies showed

435
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:20,679
that um traffic would not be a problem

436
00:22:20,679 --> 00:22:24,840
once route 261 had the left turn

437
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:31,710
lane um built and the bridge got wider

438
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,279
but uh every everything

439
00:22:34,279 --> 00:22:37,640
else um in your question

440
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,240
was was definitely more opinion than

441
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,360
what what I

442
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,880
recall but I hope with the traffic study

443
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:47,880
and the treatment plant having the

444
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,559
capacity answers your

445
00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:53,760
question and so the traffic studies from

446
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,400
the previous approvals did

447
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,120
not account for

448
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:02,159
the double size of the game room or 14

449
00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:03,600
extra hotel

450
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,760
rooms and your traffic studies for these

451
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,640
approvals were sub were taken during Co

452
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,360
is that

453
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:15,870
correct

454
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,440
um well we never submitted that well I

455
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:22,279
shouldn't say because I'm not too sure

456
00:23:22,279 --> 00:23:25,360
if we submitted a traffic study with

457
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,880
these five sight plans um I think what

458
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,440
we did was an amendment because the

459
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,159
hotel

460
00:23:35,159 --> 00:23:38,720
Redevelopment wasn't isn't complete yet

461
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,679
so um but you keep saying we doubled the

462
00:23:42,679 --> 00:23:46,440
size of the game room and that's that's

463
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,480
um not true we we

464
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,080
are we're allowed 278 machines and

465
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:57,200
that's all we have and that's all we had

466
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,159
so we we did not double the size of the

467
00:24:00,159 --> 00:24:01,919
game

468
00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:03,520
room

469
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:08,350
so and then

470
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,159
um I I don't

471
00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:13,440
uh I don't know if that answers your

472
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,310
question or not

473
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:19,840
but well the the capacity of your

474
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,559
building would be based on the the

475
00:24:21,559 --> 00:24:25,559
square footage of your rooms

476
00:24:25,559 --> 00:24:31,230
no it's it's based on seat count

477
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,520
and you're saying the capacity of your

478
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,919
building only accounts the seat count of

479
00:24:36,919 --> 00:24:39,440
the machines that you have is that what

480
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,440
you're claiming under

481
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:43,880
testimony I don't really know what the

482
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,799
relevance is of this we're talking about

483
00:24:45,799 --> 00:24:48,240
the board of appeals for the five site

484
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,600
plans so if I could

485
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,080
just intervene to

486
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,919
help the calculation of capacity for

487
00:24:57,919 --> 00:25:00,279
what purpose so there's a calculation

488
00:25:00,279 --> 00:25:04,960
for the purposes of determining the uh

489
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,880
off street parking requirements there's

490
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,640
a requirement for the edus that may be

491
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,880
necessary there's different requirements

492
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,720
under building codes for Life

493
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,919
Safety the all of the different uses at

494
00:25:19,919 --> 00:25:23,039
the resort property have different

495
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:26,000
methods of calculation so I'm just

496
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,600
offering that to help you ask the

497
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,600
questions I think think you're trying to

498
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,080
get to so when you if you're talking

499
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,399
about the gaming room then you could

500
00:25:34,399 --> 00:25:36,679
just focus just on the gaming room but

501
00:25:36,679 --> 00:25:38,480
obviously the whole property has many

502
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,919
other uses that also have different

503
00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:41,039
methods of

504
00:25:41,039 --> 00:25:42,720
calculation

505
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,399
sure um and I don't want to make this

506
00:25:45,399 --> 00:25:47,990
too

507
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,000
painful my question is very simple

508
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,360
um the traffic studies that you

509
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,870
submitted

510
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,159
were they

511
00:26:00,159 --> 00:26:03,440
current did they well first of all were

512
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,149
they taken during Co during the covid-19

513
00:26:09,159 --> 00:26:13,480
pandemic um like I said previously we

514
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,880
did traffic studies in

515
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:22,039
2016 I don't recall if we um actually

516
00:26:22,039 --> 00:26:25,840
amended those in 2020 and they were

517
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:30,840
included in the site plan we submitted I just don't

518
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,159
recall okay so if but this the original

519
00:26:34,159 --> 00:26:38,549
traffic studies were done in

520
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:40,440
2016

521
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,399
now I will say the bridge we didn't have

522
00:26:43,399 --> 00:26:46,679
a new bridge yet in town but the traffic

523
00:26:46,679 --> 00:26:50,470
study did account for the new

524
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,000
bridge

525
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,600
okay so comprehensive planning was done

526
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,120
during covid-19

527
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:06,919
and it had started before then but sure um your plans were submitted during

528
00:27:06,919 --> 00:27:07,720
the

529
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,600
pandemic and you

530
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,159
were

531
00:27:11,159 --> 00:27:12,840
aware

532
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,799
that the Planning Commission had

533
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:17,360
concerns about

534
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,470
traffic is that

535
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:26,000
correct um I understand that to be true

536
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,440
yeah okay so is

537
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,360
could you have expected the Planning

538
00:27:31,360 --> 00:27:33,279
Commission to

539
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:36,480
approve high capacity

540
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,960
development in light

541
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,399
of everything that was coming that

542
00:27:41,399 --> 00:27:43,679
everything that had come to the town

543
00:27:43,679 --> 00:27:45,399
since a last comprehensive planning

544
00:27:45,399 --> 00:27:48,760
period I object I don't see

545
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,799
how her mind she was the planning ising

546
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:55,320
at the time I don't see how he can

547
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,320
answer for her she's got can what she

548
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:00,919
I'll

549
00:28:00,919 --> 00:28:04,799
rephrase um she can ask the question we

550
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:07,240
don't know her expertise of her was on

551
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,840
the planning zoning at that

552
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,279
time she she has the open floor to ask

553
00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:15,830
her questions

554
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,919
until do you mind rephrasing the I'll

555
00:28:18,919 --> 00:28:22,240
try I wish I brought my uh picker

556
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,559
question excuse me Mr Donovan can you

557
00:28:25,559 --> 00:28:27,159
please speak into the mic speak a little

558
00:28:27,159 --> 00:28:29,559
louder I'm having difficulty hearing you

559
00:28:29,559 --> 00:28:35,269
yeah yeah

560
00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:39,440
absolutely can you rephrase the uh sure

561
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:43,159
um can you imagine a scenario where a

562
00:28:43,159 --> 00:28:47,519
Planning Commission might not want to

563
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:51,279
approve a high capacity

564
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:54,440
development with traffic studies that

565
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,360
were taken 10 years prior even if

566
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,320
amended

567
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,440
when they have no ability to gauge the

568
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,399
traffic based on new development that

569
00:29:04,399 --> 00:29:05,880
has occurred

570
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,440
during previous 10 years calling for

571
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,519
speculation it's just not an appropriate

572
00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:20,190
question

573
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:23,159
sustained were you aware that site plans

574
00:29:23,159 --> 00:29:25,320
expire and

575
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,559
that once you have a

576
00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:31,799
approval and authorization I think you

577
00:29:31,799 --> 00:29:35,159
had authorization for an extra year to

578
00:29:35,159 --> 00:29:37,279
entertain your

579
00:29:37,279 --> 00:29:39,799
approval were you aware that it could

580
00:29:39,799 --> 00:29:41,679
potentially

581
00:29:41,679 --> 00:29:44,600
expire

582
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,200
yes and when you decided to let it

583
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:53,120
expire were you aware that there was a

584
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,440
risk that it would not get

585
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,600
approved afterwards

586
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:01,840
at that time no because the zoning was

587
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:04,159
still in

588
00:30:04,159 --> 00:30:07,320
place now if the zoning changed well

589
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,360
then yes obviously but at the time that

590
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,000
they expired the zoning was still the

591
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,000
same so I I would have no reason to

592
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,720
think

593
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,320
otherwise but you do understand and you

594
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,120
did understand what comprehensive

595
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,559
planning does

596
00:30:24,559 --> 00:30:29,120
correct yeah you've had rezoning occur

597
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,760
in town before that you knew of is that

598
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,200
correct too yes

599
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:48,549
okay no further

600
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,679
questions so I had voiced my concern and

601
00:30:52,679 --> 00:30:54,320
the reason I had voiced it is because

602
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:58,440
there might be something said uh when he was asked

603
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,799
questions uh that made me want to ask

604
00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:02,600
another question and actually I really

605
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,200
have only the same questions from the

606
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,960
first

607
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,679
time are you gonna allow me to ask him

608
00:31:08,679 --> 00:31:10,039
you're gonna ask him the same question

609
00:31:10,039 --> 00:31:11,440
you asked him during his original

610
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,120
testimony

611
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,320
uh about this I'm gonna ask about some

612
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,399
things she just talked

613
00:31:19,399 --> 00:31:22,919
about No Object because the ruling was

614
00:31:22,919 --> 00:31:25,360
we were only taking people that had

615
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,559
previously not had a chance to ask

616
00:31:27,559 --> 00:31:30,240
questions Mr getman has asked questions

617
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,159
yes otherwise we'd open a door I agree

618
00:31:34,159 --> 00:31:36,799
I'm sorry you cannot ask answer or ask

619
00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:40,080
okay I just want that on record on the

620
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,720
record all

621
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:48,120
right uh anyone else want to question Mr

622
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:52,629
Donovan board

623
00:31:52,639 --> 00:31:55,679
members two questions

624
00:31:55,679 --> 00:31:58,440
um I have two questions for you

625
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,360
um with these properties I know I had

626
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,639
asked you before um if anything else had

627
00:32:02,639 --> 00:32:04,480
happened with these properties but did

628
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,320
you were any of these properties do you

629
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:08,159
ever try to sell them or use them for

630
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:11,159
any other purpose than what you what

631
00:32:11,159 --> 00:32:14,279
you've had

632
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:19,760
planned no no okay and um the attorney

633
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,000
that was here the other week um said he

634
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,399
was an expert on imminent domain you had

635
00:32:24,399 --> 00:32:28,720
expressed that right that was in our

636
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,120
he didn't say he was an expert he can't

637
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,159
say he's an expert attorneys can't hold

638
00:32:32,159 --> 00:32:33,960
themselves out as an expert okay so

639
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,440
that's Amy terminology that he focused

640
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,200
on that field or for the termin wasn't

641
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,120
iment I mean it was a taking it's a

642
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,110
different type of

643
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:51,549
law

644
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:55,080
um the note the minutes and what we said

645
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,240
is that he specializes in the area of

646
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,549
emminent domain an inverse

647
00:33:01,559 --> 00:33:05,279
condemnation Mr Blitz is that accurate I

648
00:33:05,279 --> 00:33:08,519
believe he did say that okay so but he

649
00:33:08,519 --> 00:33:11,360
wasn't I think Mr pound's point is

650
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,480
nothing in this case is about eminent

651
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,919
domain that is he may he may have been

652
00:33:15,919 --> 00:33:18,320
saying what he test what he practices

653
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,039
What fields he is Mr pound is correct

654
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:22,720
none of his testimony was about eminent

655
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:25,159
domain it was about takings I understand

656
00:33:25,159 --> 00:33:28,080
that however if he is serving as Co

657
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,960
counsel and that is a specialty Mr

658
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,720
Donovan you had stated before that the

659
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,799
reason why you then put in your claim in

660
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:39,519
2021 is that the Town Council had had a

661
00:33:39,519 --> 00:33:40,880
meeting and it sounded like they were

662
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,000
going to have that they were considering

663
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,240
eminent domain of your property and that

664
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,200
concerned you and therefore you put in

665
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,679
the paperwork with these applications

666
00:33:49,679 --> 00:33:52,440
did you then confer with your Council

667
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,760
regarding that objection with respect to

668
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,880
asking about conversations with Council

669
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,360
okay that's privilege but you're fine

670
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,840
until you said that last bid it was all

671
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,960
fine how do you okay I I know how to I

672
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,440
just found I think what you were talking

673
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,960
about is when the Planning

674
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,679
Commission um was talking about stets

675
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,079
and those two Parcels that had been in

676
00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:19,800
our family since

677
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:23,800
1936 and making those a park that's what

678
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,800
I was talking about and they said it on

679
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,440
more than one occasion

680
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,320
um I think that's what you're referring

681
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,440
to yeah it just it piqu my curiosity

682
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,560
when that that's the cause of us

683
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,030
submitting the site

684
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:50,550
plans I think that's I

685
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,440
have all right thank you Mr Donovan sure

686
00:34:54,440 --> 00:35:01,270
all right

687
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,079
okay um so at this point it will be more

688
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:08,960
of uh blanket questions for Mr blitz's

689
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,560
presentation um we'll be following the

690
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,200
same guidelines established during our

691
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,000
last session with Mr flip Fisher the

692
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,400
line between cross- examination

693
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,119
clarifying questions isn't something the

694
00:35:18,119 --> 00:35:20,359
board feels comfortable delineating the

695
00:35:20,359 --> 00:35:22,079
board has decided to allow questions

696
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:24,200
this is not a court of law if lawyers

697
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,359
feel that this violates their

698
00:35:25,359 --> 00:35:26,599
professional code of ethics they must

699
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:27,880
use their judgment as to whether they

700
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,880
can answer the question if one or more

701
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,240
questions are declined to be answered

702
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,480
the presentation will remain in the

703
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,359
record and the record will reflect a

704
00:35:34,359 --> 00:35:36,920
refusal to answer questioner may profer

705
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,079
as to what questions would be posed if

706
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:43,040
given the opportunity same rules

707
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,320
um Mr BS would you like to start

708
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,079
questions if I could be heard first oh

709
00:35:47,079 --> 00:35:49,040
go ahead so you had

710
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,400
asked for Council to come up with

711
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,520
adequate

712
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,839
procedures for having me testify in a

713
00:35:56,839 --> 00:35:58,440
case in which I am the

714
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,680
attorney um and as I noted with respect

715
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,319
to Mr fiser at the last hearing it's

716
00:36:04,319 --> 00:36:05,400
against the rules of professional

717
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,160
conduct to act as an attorney in the

718
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,000
same proceeding that you are testifying

719
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,720
for on issues that are

720
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:17,240
contested I'm going to read you the

721
00:36:17,240 --> 00:36:19,560
section of the professional rules of

722
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:21,280
conduct so

723
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:25,079
you understand it it's rule

724
00:36:25,079 --> 00:36:28,119
19-33 point7

725
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:30,400
and it says attorney is witness

726
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,599
subsection

727
00:36:31,599 --> 00:36:34,680
a an attorney shall not act as an

728
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:36,839
advocate at a trial in which the

729
00:36:36,839 --> 00:36:38,520
attorney is likely to be a necessary

730
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:42,040
witness unless the testimony relates to

731
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,200
UNC an uncontested

732
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,520
issue the testimony relates to the

733
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,400
nature and the value of legal services

734
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,960
rendered in the

735
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,560
case or the disqualification of the

736
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,359
attorney would work substantial hardship

737
00:36:54,359 --> 00:36:58,440
on the client subsection B attorney May

738
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,040
advocate in a trial in which another

739
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,640
attorney in the attorney's firm is

740
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:04,400
likely to be called as a witness unless

741
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,440
precluded by rule

742
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,829
19-31

743
00:37:10,839 --> 00:37:14,720
D7 as I've stated repeatedly I have not

744
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:17,720
acted as a witness in this proceeding

745
00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:20,280
but as an attorney making a presentation

746
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,440
that included arguments about the

747
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:25,400
relevance of the documents the

748
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,280
documentary evidence that we had or

749
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,960
the statutes that I'm directing your

750
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:33,040
attention to that's not testimony none

751
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,040
of that's in my personal

752
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,880
knowledge personal knowledge is somebody

753
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:39,920
called me and I tell you what they said

754
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:44,760
or I I tell you what they said only I

755
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,960
would have that

756
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:49,280
knowledge that would be testimony I

757
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,680
haven't given any of that

758
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,040
and for example when I submit the

759
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,200
records of the minutes of the meeting of

760
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,880
the Planning and Zoning commission or

761
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:00,520
the Town Council which we've had plenty

762
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,760
of as an exhibit that doesn't mean I'm

763
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,599
the sponsoring witness who has personal

764
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:09,119
knowledge of those proceedings I wasn't

765
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:11,240
at most of those proceedings probably

766
00:38:11,240 --> 00:38:14,400
the document submitted is the evidence I

767
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,920
as a lawyer offer them as Government

768
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,680
documents which even in a courtroom are

769
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,599
come in under a hearsay exception is

770
00:38:22,599 --> 00:38:23,560
government

771
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,000
documents and this hearsay doesn't apply

772
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,040
in this proceeding anyway

773
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,200
my point is that in offering those

774
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,520
documents I'm not acting as a witness

775
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,119
but as the lawyer and when I explain

776
00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:39,079
what the laws are as you know from all

777
00:38:39,079 --> 00:38:40,760
our previous hearings when I'm telling

778
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,200
you directing your attention to various

779
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,480
Charter Provisions or iite a case or

780
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,359
describe what happened in that case in

781
00:38:48,359 --> 00:38:49,520
the

782
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,599
decision I'm not testifying I'm acting

783
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,160
as any lawyer would in presenting you

784
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,000
the law that I think is relevant to this

785
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,510
case

786
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,400
now I should have known when Mr pound

787
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,560
started making statements in the middle

788
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:06,599
of my

789
00:39:06,599 --> 00:39:10,079
case which was back in February he

790
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:12,200
started saying there was half truths

791
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,480
being said and those half truths I

792
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,920
believe related to my statements about

793
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:17,760
his

794
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,640
letter which I literally just read into

795
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,920
the record and then it got converted

796
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:24,599
into a whole question of whether I had

797
00:39:24,599 --> 00:39:26,920
ever been sworn we had two whole

798
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:28,920
hearings about whether I had been sworn

799
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,839
in the proper way to swear

800
00:39:30,839 --> 00:39:34,200
and and what I didn't realize now and

801
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:38,680
what then but I do realize now is that

802
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,720
was all just the predicate to try to

803
00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,160
disqualify the board's at the rod and

804
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:45,359
reel's

805
00:39:45,359 --> 00:39:47,960
attorney from serving as their

806
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,280
attorney that somehow I needed to become

807
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,079
a witness it all starts with a false

808
00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:55,800
premise that I'm was in any way

809
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,240
testifying I'd ask you to think what

810
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:01,560
evidence have I offered as a

811
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,680
witness what statement of fact that is

812
00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,359
in my personal knowledge that I offered

813
00:40:07,359 --> 00:40:10,400
to you I would say there's none so what

814
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,480
would I be cross-examined

815
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,839
on the danger and the reason I rais

816
00:40:16,839 --> 00:40:17,880
these

817
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,760
points is that is exactly what you heard

818
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,480
at the last meeting from Mr pounds

819
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,160
because he made a profer of all the

820
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,040
questions he was going to ask Mr

821
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,200
Fischer and it was very instructive

822
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,000
because at least half of these proferred

823
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,839
questions have nothing to do with Mr

824
00:40:35,839 --> 00:40:37,000
feser's

825
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,440
testimony and were often completely

826
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,720
irrelevant to the case or any evidence

827
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:43,960
that had thus far been

828
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,560
provided that's why I can't allow myself

829
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,880
to be subject to

830
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,160
cross-examination under oath to a series

831
00:40:51,160 --> 00:40:53,640
of questions that have nothing to do

832
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:57,960
with any testimony I gave if it was

833
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,319
any testimony that was given I'd like it

834
00:41:01,319 --> 00:41:02,480
to be

835
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,200
identified and I would probably ask that

836
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,920
the board just strike that testimony

837
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,280
because I don't think it's necessary to

838
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,480
my case there's literally nothing I have

839
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,599
said as that would come from my personal

840
00:41:13,599 --> 00:41:16,119
knowledge that has any bearing on any

841
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:21,800
issue in this case it's just simply not

842
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:26,079
testimony it's to ask me to testify

843
00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:27,800
again when it violates the rules of

844
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,160
professional conduct is unfair and an

845
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,800
unsupportable

846
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,760
request therefore I'm going to

847
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,000
respectfully decline to be subject to

848
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,200
cross-examination by Mr pounds or any

849
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,240
other party I will always answer

850
00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:44,440
questions of the board because those

851
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,240
would not be in the nature of

852
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:48,680
cross-examination I have a duty other

853
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:51,200
than being sworn in I have a duty as an

854
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,599
officer of the court to give you the

855
00:41:54,599 --> 00:41:57,800
truth as I know it regardless it has

856
00:41:57,800 --> 00:41:59,680
nothing to do with being a witness I I'm

857
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,920
not supposed to make misstatements to

858
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,400
you so I'm already under that obligation

859
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,560
but I'm not going to start down the road

860
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,119
that would effectively allow Mr pounds

861
00:42:11,119 --> 00:42:14,079
to later disqualify me in fact if if you

862
00:42:14,079 --> 00:42:15,760
started having me testify now I'd have

863
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,440
to literally stop the case and say well

864
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,960
I'm now out as the

865
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:22,800
lawyer so when you ask whether it was

866
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,640
possible to come up with procedures to

867
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,960
accommodate that I simply said say that

868
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,720
there

869
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,359
aren't

870
00:42:32,359 --> 00:42:34,599
so the one thing I would ask you to

871
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:37,359
think about

872
00:42:37,359 --> 00:42:40,079
is at the same time Mr pounds made the

873
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:42,400
original request to cross-examine me he

874
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:44,480
made the request to cross-examine your

875
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:46,880
board's attorney Mr

876
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,079
susman

877
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:52,400
and the board ruled against having that

878
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,559
occur because it would interfere with

879
00:42:54,559 --> 00:42:56,640
the relationship of the board with their

880
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,800
attorney

881
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,440
well that's exactly what would happen if

882
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,119
I was subject to

883
00:43:01,119 --> 00:43:03,000
cross-examination I'd have to withdraw

884
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,680
as

885
00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,400
councel so I'm just not going to do that

886
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:09,280
if Mr pounds wants to make a profer like

887
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,559
he did for Mr Fischer then I suppose we

888
00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:14,559
can listen to all the profit questions

889
00:43:14,559 --> 00:43:16,359
uh what I think you'll find is that

890
00:43:16,359 --> 00:43:18,520
they're all well beyond the scope of any

891
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:22,119
direct quote testimony I made it won't

892
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:25,160
involve testimony but it'll be questions

893
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,280
about that are in the form of argument

894
00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:30,680
against our argument I would suggest

895
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,760
that that's Mr pound's opportunity to

896
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:35,119
put on his case but it's not done

897
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:37,280
through cross-examination of me so again

898
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,319
respectfully I understand your role I

899
00:43:39,319 --> 00:43:41,480
want to be supportive of your role but I

900
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,079
can't be put in a position of being

901
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:46,440
cross-examined in a case that I'm the

902
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,910
advocate for the rod and

903
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,720
reel I think we understand your position

904
00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:57,630
and

905
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,240
is there anything you'd like to uh well

906
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,800
first of all yeah thank you Mr chair um

907
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,839
before at the you first mentioned

908
00:44:05,839 --> 00:44:08,599
something to Mr Blitz you mentioned the

909
00:44:08,599 --> 00:44:10,800
process about that he was going to have

910
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,280
an opportunity to uh in Ence State his

911
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,400
position with regard to examination did

912
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:17,640
I hear that

913
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,119
correctly uh sorry say that again uh and

914
00:44:21,119 --> 00:44:23,920
again I was I can read it again please

915
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,599
um okay so we'll be following the same

916
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:28,040
guidelines is established during our

917
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:29,760
last session with Mr fiser the line

918
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:31,520
between cross-examination clarifying

919
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:32,760
questions isn't something the board

920
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,839
feels comfortable delineating the board

921
00:44:34,839 --> 00:44:36,640
has decided to allow questions this is

922
00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:38,880
not a court of law if lawyers feel that

923
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:40,359
this violates a professional code of

924
00:44:40,359 --> 00:44:41,760
ethics they must use their judgment as

925
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,599
to whether they can answer the question

926
00:44:43,599 --> 00:44:44,960
if one or more questions are declined to

927
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:46,319
be answered the presentation will remain

928
00:44:46,319 --> 00:44:47,559
in the record and the record will

929
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,040
reflect a refusal to answer a questioner

930
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,319
May the questioner may profer as to what

931
00:44:52,319 --> 00:44:54,559
questions would be posed if given the

932
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:57,720
opportunity okay then thank you I I was

933
00:44:57,720 --> 00:44:59,240
reading I wasn't writing as fast as I

934
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:01,960
was listening so thank you um and I can

935
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,000
appreciate you know everything that uh

936
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,920
you know Mr Blitz has said with regard

937
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,400
to uh uh his position uh obviously we

938
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:11,680
have a couple problems number one is we

939
00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,680
spent a whole evening which uh resulted

940
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:17,680
in very early on in this process of Mr

941
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,319
Blitz raising his right hand and and

942
00:45:20,319 --> 00:45:22,599
being absolutely positively

943
00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:26,480
unequivocally sworn it um now the

944
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,720
purpose of being sworn in is there is an

945
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:30,559
expectation by the public that what

946
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:33,040
they're hearing is the truth um because

947
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,960
there are major civil and criminal

948
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,599
sanctions as a result for failure to lie

949
00:45:38,599 --> 00:45:40,480
under oath we went through a whole

950
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,680
evening and that occurred F furthermore

951
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,319
um uh and know and I I only have limited

952
00:45:48,319 --> 00:45:49,319
documents that I'm going to be

953
00:45:49,319 --> 00:45:50,839
presenting but I like might as well

954
00:45:50,839 --> 00:45:52,520
present one right right now and this is

955
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,839
an email uh exchange between Mr susman

956
00:45:55,839 --> 00:45:57,559
and Miss wall

957
00:45:57,559 --> 00:46:01,119
uh discussing uh another is this related

958
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:04,119
to Mr the questioning of Mr Blitz it is

959
00:46:04,119 --> 00:46:07,800
okay and and and primarily is that Mr

960
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,480
Blitz would be subject to

961
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,960
cross-examination and not only that but

962
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,520
the chair Mr uh susman even said that

963
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,480
chair and I and he and I agree as to the

964
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,960
following including the fact that Mr

965
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,119
Blitz would be subject to cross-

966
00:46:21,119 --> 00:46:24,800
examination so indeed and this was back

967
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,119
in January

968
00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:29,440
and these are emails if you like me to

969
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,920
I'll be more than happy to introduce now

970
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:31,960
thank

971
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:36,920
you I object as there's no party that

972
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,040
he's representing that he would have

973
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,920
that knowledge so that's again um sort

974
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,680
of I should be able to examine each and

975
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,160
every document within town hall to

976
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,520
provide me equal footings as he is being

977
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,440
provided again this is

978
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,480
very this is what everybody's making a

979
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:57,880
claim to

980
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:01,040
things aren't just straightforward yes

981
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:03,200
um the objective is to get into the

982
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:05,000
record so that we're all on the same any

983
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:07,480
more of the copy I do have extra

984
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:11,680
copies onto the same page um but yes but

985
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,760
miss wall could be here and then he

986
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,280
could submit that but otherwise that's

987
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,670
just out of

988
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,880
procedure we have really I think part of

989
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:25,480
why it's difficult is we have wide

990
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:29,240
openen procedures here is uh something

991
00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:30,920
of this rigor that the lawyers are

992
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,680
accustomed to is not something we have

993
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,319
procedures for um and so we're trying to

994
00:47:36,319 --> 00:47:38,920
do the best we can to figure out how to

995
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:40,440
manage this and going forward obviously

996
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,880
if we know you know we knew everything

997
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:44,440
in advance it would be much much better

998
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,520
laid out but unfortunately I

999
00:47:47,520 --> 00:47:51,839
can't Sor just from myp

1000
00:47:51,839 --> 00:47:54,640
yeah my objection is can we hold a

1001
00:47:54,640 --> 00:48:18,750
minute and give Mr susman yes

1002
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,160
while Mr is reading I just want to

1003
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:21,800
confirm that has been accepted in

1004
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,920
evidence no yeah I I still reserve my

1005
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:25,960
right to make an objection I'm still

1006
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:50,390
reading it okay

1007
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,040
one let us know when you are okay um

1008
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,280
here you've read it to your satisfaction

1009
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:10,710
Mr Blitz

1010
00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:13,920
so my first concern is that there's

1011
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,160
Communications about the process and

1012
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,040
procedures of the board that are

1013
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:21,280
occurring without me being present in

1014
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,829
the

1015
00:49:23,839 --> 00:49:26,000
communications completely improper but

1016
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,240
what I don't understand about these

1017
00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,309
communications is whether these are

1018
00:49:33,319 --> 00:49:36,950
Communications

1019
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,359
from Miss

1020
00:49:39,359 --> 00:49:44,789
wall and Mr

1021
00:49:44,799 --> 00:49:47,160
susman well but it's also got members of

1022
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,040
the board it well it's got the chair I

1023
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:57,390
apologize just the chair

1024
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,390
and I I guess I'm trying to my question

1025
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:10,000
is how did Mr hounds have a copy of of

1026
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:12,280
Correspondence that's occurring outside

1027
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,440
of the operation of the public

1028
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,520
hearings for

1029
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,559
communications between Town

1030
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:24,799
staff and Mr

1031
00:50:24,799 --> 00:50:28,599
susman and I don't know

1032
00:50:28,599 --> 00:50:32,040
whether at at January 5th

1033
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:36,119
2024 Miss wall had assumed the position

1034
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:39,079
of zoning administrator at that time but

1035
00:50:39,079 --> 00:50:42,160
she subsequently has and then that would

1036
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:44,680
mean she's a party

1037
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:47,960
communicating with Mr susman she had she

1038
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:57,470
had or had not 2024 uh January 5th of

1039
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,480
let let let me know because number one

1040
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:01,520
Miss B is not a party and number two he

1041
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,200
I can address the comments he's made the

1042
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,000
officer the zoning administrator is one

1043
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,960
of the parties we alleged commit error

1044
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:14,230
by law she is a

1045
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:16,799
party just in the same way the Planning

1046
00:51:16,799 --> 00:51:18,480
and Zoning commission

1047
00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,559
is doesn't mean I can call her because I

1048
00:51:21,559 --> 00:51:23,040
don't have the power to subpoena

1049
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,680
Witnesses just like anybody else doesn't

1050
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,160
have that power

1051
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:31,000
so I'm going to object to the in in to

1052
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,200
the introduction of communications

1053
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:34,799
outside the

1054
00:51:34,799 --> 00:51:39,200
record between the board's Council and

1055
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,319
the board members and the Town

1056
00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:44,760
Administrator as I don't think they

1057
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:48,440
properly come into evidence in any way

1058
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,319
and I'd also just make the point that

1059
00:51:51,319 --> 00:51:53,480
any discussion outside of this context

1060
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,240
doesn't really

1061
00:51:55,240 --> 00:51:59,480
change the outcome of my respectful

1062
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:03,030
declination to be

1063
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:07,200
cross-examined I can say pleas and

1064
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:10,960
basically the reason for this email was

1065
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,760
because the public was informed and was

1066
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,040
communicated to the public with regard

1067
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:18,280
to this process which public should be

1068
00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,760
the ultimate uh you know truth barrier

1069
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,359
but the public was informed that indeed

1070
00:52:24,359 --> 00:52:27,200
through the almost 30 hours of of

1071
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,400
narrative by Mr Blitz in this that they

1072
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,200
would be opportunity to cross-examine

1073
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:33,680
him as I am the member of the public and

1074
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:37,920
he's speaking for me okay except for

1075
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:40,559
Mr except for Mr Deval then the rest of

1076
00:52:40,559 --> 00:52:41,960
the public then would like to an

1077
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,720
opportunity and they they would be

1078
00:52:43,720 --> 00:52:47,480
informed that indeed the the Mr Blitz

1079
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:48,960
would be subject to

1080
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,880
cross-examination they were asked about

1081
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,160
it and it was confirmed that he would uh

1082
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:55,280
that we are definitely going to be

1083
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:25,430
bringing that up obviously you know in later on but one

1084
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:55,430
moment

1085
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:28,549
e e

1086
00:54:28,559 --> 00:54:30,119
all right the uh Sharon what's our

1087
00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:34,510
latest exhibit

1088
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,240
number we will enter this in as exhibit

1089
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:40,079
70 we are denying the objection

1090
00:54:40,079 --> 00:54:41,520
overruling the objection and this will

1091
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,440
come in uh the chair would like I

1092
00:54:44,440 --> 00:54:46,640
believe we already have a 70 that's

1093
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:52,789
sorry

1094
00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:57,240
711 pound you may make your

1095
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:00,079
uh statement regarding what is in the

1096
00:55:00,079 --> 00:55:02,440
contents of this and I would like you to

1097
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:04,079
briefly pause at the end of it so I can

1098
00:55:04,079 --> 00:55:07,240
point out one section okay uh basically

1099
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:10,640
this uh under the email which is uh

1100
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:12,960
number one addressed as you know I spoke

1101
00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:15,119
to the chair and he and I agree on the

1102
00:55:15,119 --> 00:55:18,839
following and that indeed um uh number

1103
00:55:18,839 --> 00:55:21,880
three and this is on the email uh dated

1104
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,079
January the 19th the chair will give the

1105
00:55:24,079 --> 00:55:25,799
parties a record and opportunity to ask

1106
00:55:25,799 --> 00:55:27,359
questions of Mr Blitz at the end of the

1107
00:55:27,359 --> 00:55:29,359
testimony and presentation questions

1108
00:55:29,359 --> 00:55:31,200
should generally be limited to the scope

1109
00:55:31,200 --> 00:55:33,240
to address information presented by Mr

1110
00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:35,559
Blitz and that was the email from Mr

1111
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:38,000
susman on the other email can you read

1112
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,880
the last line of that block oh sure um

1113
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:42,720
Mr Blitz May object to any questions and

1114
00:55:42,720 --> 00:55:44,599
the chair May rule on Mr blitz's

1115
00:55:44,599 --> 00:55:46,640
objection on a case- by case

1116
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:49,440
basis um that is not exactly what we're

1117
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:51,760
doing here but I feel it is close

1118
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,520
enough um that uh you may ask him

1119
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,079
questions and he may opt not to

1120
00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:00,280
answer oh it's my understanding he's not

1121
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,079
answering anything yes okay we can be

1122
00:56:03,079 --> 00:56:04,839
here for a couple

1123
00:56:04,839 --> 00:56:09,920
days how you'd like to do it okay um uh

1124
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:16,910
and then also uh so

1125
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:20,520
Mr so

1126
00:56:20,520 --> 00:56:24,720
uh so Mr Blitz uh earlier on I just to

1127
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:28,240
clarify we are accepting the lay of the

1128
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:31,359
land with regards to questioning each

1129
00:56:31,359 --> 00:56:32,880
other

1130
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,160
we given given all the objections and

1131
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:38,799
problems here I would ask Bo please to

1132
00:56:38,799 --> 00:56:41,000
review my

1133
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,520
rebuttal I mean that clearly outlines

1134
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,960
how just inappropriate

1135
00:56:46,960 --> 00:56:50,559
and um I mean it was just a pretty

1136
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:53,319
embarrassing to be for lawyers to treat

1137
00:56:53,319 --> 00:56:55,680
each other that way we look at I look at

1138
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:59,280
lawyers we with respect we we we

1139
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,599
understand we need we need to keep this

1140
00:57:00,599 --> 00:57:02,839
a little we're trying to

1141
00:57:02,839 --> 00:57:04,920
follow what do you what are you trying

1142
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,160
to follow I'm trying you're letting him

1143
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:08,920
talk out here I'm trying not let him

1144
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,559
talk you're not you're not saying

1145
00:57:10,559 --> 00:57:13,319
anything about it you you you've already

1146
00:57:13,319 --> 00:57:15,640
said you don't have you're making up

1147
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:17,760
procedures as you're going and I and I

1148
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:19,680
think you guys are really putting forth

1149
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,079
a lot of great effort but but you

1150
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:24,359
refused me to be able to ask a second

1151
00:57:24,359 --> 00:57:27,079
question I didn't refuse made you made

1152
00:57:27,079 --> 00:57:29,440
that determination but there's a whole

1153
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:31,680
lot of other things you're just playing

1154
00:57:31,680 --> 00:57:34,720
it by ear we're we're trying not to uh

1155
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:38,240
we'd like sit down gallery to

1156
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:41,280
please okay we're trying to have it so

1157
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,200
that we can finish finish Mr blitz's

1158
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:44,680
presentation which he's done which Then

1159
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:46,039
followed by his questioning which is

1160
00:57:46,039 --> 00:57:47,920
Then followed by Mr pound's presentation

1161
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:49,680
followed by his questioning and then it

1162
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,119
opens the floor to the public and you

1163
00:57:51,119 --> 00:57:55,079
can say anything within the context of

1164
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:57,799
this case that you would like to say uh

1165
00:57:57,799 --> 00:58:00,359
to the board or give presentation on

1166
00:58:00,359 --> 00:58:01,960
that is the general rule of how we're

1167
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,480
trying to follow this and we are doing

1168
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:07,319
the best that we can so so you had just

1169
00:58:07,319 --> 00:58:10,680
been asking a question about we were

1170
00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:12,039
sure of something but I wasn't quite

1171
00:58:12,039 --> 00:58:14,680
sure what you were asking so um the

1172
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,760
statement I was making sure that we are

1173
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:21,160
we're ready to begin questioning of Mr

1174
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,599
Blitz by Mr pounds with the caveat that

1175
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:26,599
you may opt not to answer I I have

1176
00:58:26,599 --> 00:58:28,760
already opted you should just now be

1177
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,440
like a profer just like he did for Mr f

1178
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:34,680
are we beginning that Mr pounds I want

1179
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,480
to make sure I'm clear so I can ask a

1180
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:37,760
bunch of questions that he's already

1181
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:41,960
said he's not going to answer yes um uh

1182
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,480
and and now since I could make a profer

1183
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:47,280
which I could probably do on closing uh

1184
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:48,760
you and you guys will have closing as

1185
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:50,480
well that will follow everything

1186
00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:55,039
absolutely so I want to make sure

1187
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:57,160
that okay let's just let's just go down

1188
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:58,240
the road a little bit and see where we

1189
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:01,280
can go okay so Mr Blitz you know you

1190
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:19,549
were here during the beginning of these

1191
00:59:19,559 --> 00:59:21,640
proceedings that's a foundation to make

1192
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,480
sure that he indeed admits that he was

1193
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:30,190
here I mean here not here

1194
00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:32,760
yes Mr uh Mr Blitz is refusing to answer

1195
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,280
he may proceed with your questions okay

1196
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:37,680
are we talking to the mic please oh I'm

1197
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:41,359
sorry so uh and Mr Blitz you were here

1198
00:59:41,359 --> 00:59:42,960
this that evening in which you raised

1199
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,280
your hand and and sworn in to be a

1200
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:49,789
witness under

1201
00:59:49,799 --> 00:59:53,000
oath so is your is your refusal to even

1202
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,520
respond a a refusal to respond

1203
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,160
Mr pounds just like you did last time I

1204
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,680
have blanket refused it's now your turn

1205
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:03,720
to make a profer which is just a list of

1206
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:05,599
the questions that you would have asked

1207
01:00:05,599 --> 01:00:07,400
if you had been given the opportunity

1208
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,520
you did this at the last hearing with Mr

1209
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:11,799
fiser I'm in the same position as Mr

1210
01:00:11,799 --> 01:00:15,400
Fisher I've declined to answer questions

1211
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:17,640
on

1212
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,720
cross-examination you can then put into

1213
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:22,039
the record so that they are preserved

1214
01:00:22,039 --> 01:00:25,039
your list of questions so don't pause

1215
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:26,960
after each one just just like he did for

1216
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,039
Mr

1217
01:00:28,039 --> 01:00:30,960
fer if I don't mean to instruct you but

1218
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,160
I'm just saying that's that's my

1219
01:00:33,160 --> 01:00:35,799
intention about or or uh understanding

1220
01:00:35,799 --> 01:00:37,680
about what the board's asking right now

1221
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,599
the board's understanding as

1222
01:00:40,599 --> 01:00:43,640
well I mean so want to make sure because

1223
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,359
I uh first of all then I want to make

1224
01:00:47,359 --> 01:00:50,400
sure that we have I did a motion last

1225
01:00:50,400 --> 01:00:53,680
time that that indeed Mr Blitz you know

1226
01:00:53,680 --> 01:00:55,480
made us aware that he was not under

1227
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,599
Earth I did a motion to strike his

1228
01:00:57,599 --> 01:01:00,559
entire testimony um that indeed to make

1229
01:01:00,559 --> 01:01:02,640
sure that anything he said was not in

1230
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,720
evidence was not part of this case as as

1231
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,319
he just stated that he was a lawyer

1232
01:01:07,319 --> 01:01:11,119
making arguments okay if that is true

1233
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:13,000
then anything that you would have hear

1234
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:16,240
for the heard for the last 30 hours from

1235
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,680
him then we have to understand is not

1236
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:21,319
evidence is not testimony is not under

1237
01:01:21,319 --> 01:01:25,039
oath and this and is nothing more than

1238
01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:27,160
him making

1239
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,720
verbal comments as opposed to anything

1240
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:32,520
else uh I made that motion before it was

1241
01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:36,000
denied I'm going to make it again now um

1242
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,599
because I can tell you because that is

1243
01:01:38,599 --> 01:01:40,039
part of where I'm going to be going in

1244
01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:42,319
the case that motion is also denied you

1245
01:01:42,319 --> 01:01:44,760
may proceed with your profer thank you

1246
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,799
uh so

1247
01:01:47,799 --> 01:01:50,520
uh okay so we're going to the profer so

1248
01:01:50,520 --> 01:02:09,630
first of all I would have asked

1249
01:02:09,640 --> 01:02:10,839
okay these are going to be the proper

1250
01:02:10,839 --> 01:02:13,079
questions that I I would have asked so

1251
01:02:13,079 --> 01:02:15,079
Mr blitz so to make sure we understand

1252
01:02:15,079 --> 01:02:17,039
each other you and I just I just said

1253
01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:19,039
you swore yourself in but now you've

1254
01:02:19,039 --> 01:02:20,920
made the decision that you were not

1255
01:02:20,920 --> 01:02:23,720
going to be indeed uh testifying or even

1256
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:25,559
though it was under oath what was the

1257
01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:27,039
reason that you decided to change your

1258
01:02:27,039 --> 01:02:29,200
mind isn't it true that basically the

1259
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:31,359
reason a person is sworn in is because

1260
01:02:31,359 --> 01:02:32,680
there's an expectation that you're

1261
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,279
telling the truth are you now telling

1262
01:02:35,279 --> 01:02:37,039
the public that indeed you can no longer

1263
01:02:37,039 --> 01:02:39,160
have the expectation to tell a truth

1264
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:41,119
because you refu you've decided to

1265
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:44,119
change your mind as to you're being uh

1266
01:02:44,119 --> 01:02:46,319
indeed under oath with regard to these

1267
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:48,359
testimony uh is that the reason or is

1268
01:02:48,359 --> 01:02:49,599
there some other reason will you please

1269
01:02:49,599 --> 01:02:52,119
tell what the reason is for you know for

1270
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:54,760
this testimony um with regard to the

1271
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,400
previous exhibit

1272
01:02:56,400 --> 01:02:58,240
which indeed you introduced and which

1273
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,079
you showed that indeed permits had been

1274
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:02,520
issued were you indeed the attorney for

1275
01:03:02,520 --> 01:03:05,880
RNR and also the attorney for the town

1276
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,440
during this process did you shepher the

1277
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,960
those previous permits through the town

1278
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,000
uh and and with regard to received

1279
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:15,760
approvals in that way you also heard the

1280
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,520
testimony of Mr Woodburn with regard to

1281
01:03:18,520 --> 01:03:20,880
his testimony was he indeed the town

1282
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:23,520
attorney the town engineer at the time

1283
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,079
uh and also the engineer for our RNR and

1284
01:03:27,079 --> 01:03:30,920
indeed what did uh he act as under both

1285
01:03:30,920 --> 01:03:33,880
capacities uh during that time uh isn't

1286
01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,079
it true that the town engineer is very

1287
01:03:36,079 --> 01:03:37,680
important to the town and also to the

1288
01:03:37,680 --> 01:03:40,599
public to make sure that indeed they are

1289
01:03:40,599 --> 01:03:42,839
given an opportunity to review

1290
01:03:42,839 --> 01:03:44,359
everything that needs to be done with an

1291
01:03:44,359 --> 01:03:47,480
application uh as opposed to just doing

1292
01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:50,680
yourself here tonight the testimony was

1293
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,920
that indeed um uh Mr uh Newton was

1294
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:57,599
indeed the the uh engineer but you were

1295
01:03:57,599 --> 01:03:59,319
talking about the projects with regard

1296
01:03:59,319 --> 01:04:01,319
to the evidence which was entered

1297
01:04:01,319 --> 01:04:05,240
earlier uh in this process and indeed uh

1298
01:04:05,240 --> 01:04:07,559
whether that uh he was the engineer

1299
01:04:07,559 --> 01:04:09,920
during that time and who was in essence

1300
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:11,160
operating in the best interest of the

1301
01:04:11,160 --> 01:04:13,240
town during that time isn't it true you

1302
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,359
were also the uh attorney for the board

1303
01:04:15,359 --> 01:04:17,559
uh Planning Commission at that time and

1304
01:04:17,559 --> 01:04:20,039
helped Shepherd those other uh permits

1305
01:04:20,039 --> 01:04:23,160
through uh uh the Planning Commission at

1306
01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:25,079
time to receive those permits that

1307
01:04:25,079 --> 01:04:27,480
indeed permits were issued and indeed

1308
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,920
the uh isn't that correct and indeed

1309
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:31,319
with regard to those permits that were

1310
01:04:31,319 --> 01:04:34,640
being issued uh those permits expired

1311
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:37,119
they were renewed and they expired again

1312
01:04:37,119 --> 01:04:40,119
some 10 years have passed and then uh

1313
01:04:40,119 --> 01:04:44,720
there was a decision not uh to uh renew

1314
01:04:44,720 --> 01:04:46,720
those applications until the

1315
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,319
comprehensive plan process was uh in in

1316
01:04:49,319 --> 01:04:53,119
Essence beginning that uh with regard to

1317
01:04:53,119 --> 01:04:56,440
the pl comprehensive plan process uh you

1318
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,440
were aware that the zoning administrator

1319
01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,880
at the time said no with regard to these

1320
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:02,839
applic uh these types of uses the

1321
01:05:02,839 --> 01:05:04,440
Planning Commission that indeed

1322
01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,559
according to Mr um uh Donovan that

1323
01:05:08,559 --> 01:05:10,799
indeed the Mr Donovan stated that they

1324
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:12,640
didn't even bother going to the Planning

1325
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:14,640
Commission to review any type of

1326
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:16,920
testimony or application that indeed

1327
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,279
that was their decision uh and then

1328
01:05:19,279 --> 01:05:21,960
indeed no application or request was

1329
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:25,240
made of town council with regard to uh

1330
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,599
that decis ision to uh uh request that

1331
01:05:29,599 --> 01:05:31,599
these properties remain in any type of

1332
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:35,720
Zone whatsoever that indeed the pro then

1333
01:05:35,720 --> 01:05:38,400
Pro the process then began uh to the

1334
01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:42,470
board of

1335
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,680
appeals that indeed if you were uh the

1336
01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:48,559
attorney for the town and also for the

1337
01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:50,920
developer uh whether this created a

1338
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,920
conflict of interest issues in

1339
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:56,200
representing both parties

1340
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:58,240
and indeed is it uh since you were being

1341
01:05:58,240 --> 01:06:00,799
paid by the town that in desence did you

1342
01:06:00,799 --> 01:06:02,599
have an obligation to act in the best

1343
01:06:02,599 --> 01:06:04,279
interest of the town with regard to

1344
01:06:04,279 --> 01:06:05,799
these application uh with regard to

1345
01:06:05,799 --> 01:06:06,599
these

1346
01:06:06,599 --> 01:06:09,279
applications uh so after those permits

1347
01:06:09,279 --> 01:06:12,400
expire 10 years go by and then uh they

1348
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,559
begin the comprehensive plan process the

1349
01:06:15,559 --> 01:06:17,839
uh the engineer earlier on testified

1350
01:06:17,839 --> 01:06:20,760
that indeed things change uh and indeed

1351
01:06:20,760 --> 01:06:24,319
things do change um the area which is

1352
01:06:24,319 --> 01:06:27,760
now classified as a flood plane and uh

1353
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,799
and indeed the your request with regard

1354
01:06:30,799 --> 01:06:33,920
to these applications is to indeed build

1355
01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,960
uh houses in a flood plane uh and isn't

1356
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:38,720
it true based upon your experience as a

1357
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:40,920
town attorney that flood plane is going

1358
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:43,960
to cause harm to the public and also

1359
01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,760
with regard to your uh uh the public can

1360
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:49,559
be harmed and also create a tremendous

1361
01:06:49,559 --> 01:06:51,760
financial burden on the town with regard

1362
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,400
to this town uh harm to that can happen

1363
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,640
to the public that indeed that that

1364
01:06:57,640 --> 01:06:59,279
indeed do you think based upon your

1365
01:06:59,279 --> 01:07:01,599
previous experience as the town attorney

1366
01:07:01,599 --> 01:07:03,920
whether indeed building houses in the

1367
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:05,279
flood plane is

1368
01:07:05,279 --> 01:07:08,760
appropriate the again uh and I wanted to

1369
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,559
confirm for the record that indeed the

1370
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:13,279
zoning administrator said no to this use

1371
01:07:13,279 --> 01:07:15,839
the uh you never bothered to go for

1372
01:07:15,839 --> 01:07:18,200
before the Planning Commission uh and

1373
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,680
also you never bother to actually make a

1374
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:24,309
formal application to the Town

1375
01:07:24,319 --> 01:07:30,000
Council the the uh the town then uh Town Council

1376
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:33,240
then passed a moratorium and and indeed

1377
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,839
uh uh I would ask your opinion based

1378
01:07:35,839 --> 01:07:39,520
upon the Town Council whether indeed the

1379
01:07:39,520 --> 01:07:42,599
uh planning the um uh board of appeals

1380
01:07:42,599 --> 01:07:45,279
can indeed overturn a decision of the

1381
01:07:45,279 --> 01:07:48,000
Town Council that that is who is the one

1382
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:49,799
who actually runs the town who's the one

1383
01:07:49,799 --> 01:07:51,720
that makes decisions of the town and

1384
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:55,839
with regard to your uh definition of and

1385
01:07:55,839 --> 01:07:59,839
your belief that indeed the uh board of

1386
01:07:59,839 --> 01:08:01,559
appeals has these Powers which I'm going

1387
01:08:01,559 --> 01:08:03,520
to get into in one minute that indeed

1388
01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,440
they can overturn the Town Council uh

1389
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:09,240
I'm also going to be introducing um a

1390
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,200
new town ordinance that's going to be

1391
01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:13,400
coming in dealing with critical area

1392
01:08:13,400 --> 01:08:15,640
changes and then I'm going to ask you

1393
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:17,400
whether in your opinion based upon your

1394
01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:19,719
experience that indeed the board the

1395
01:08:19,719 --> 01:08:21,679
board of appeals can overturn the Town

1396
01:08:21,679 --> 01:08:24,560
Council with regard to that uh uh

1397
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:28,000
critical area legislation since indeed

1398
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,040
uh this will affect any type of decision

1399
01:08:30,040 --> 01:08:32,759
with regard to granting your application

1400
01:08:32,759 --> 01:08:35,080
or granting your request by the board

1401
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:37,000
should the board even be reviewing that

1402
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,400
application uh or does the board can the

1403
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:41,480
board unilaterally just decide to

1404
01:08:41,480 --> 01:08:47,030
overturn the Town

1405
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:50,920
Council indeed the um uh with regard to

1406
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:53,159
the evidence which has already been

1407
01:08:53,159 --> 01:08:55,759
introduced uh indicating that the chair

1408
01:08:55,759 --> 01:08:58,359
and Mr susman both agreed that you would

1409
01:08:58,359 --> 01:08:59,960
be subject to

1410
01:08:59,960 --> 01:09:02,080
cross-examination uh and now you've

1411
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,920
decided not to whether that indeed

1412
01:09:04,920 --> 01:09:09,239
creates some type of um of um uh issue

1413
01:09:09,239 --> 01:09:11,440
with regard to making sure the public is

1414
01:09:11,440 --> 01:09:13,640
fully informed making sure the public

1415
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,880
does have an opportunity to participate

1416
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:17,960
since indeed you made that decision to

1417
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:19,640
swearing in at the beginning of the

1418
01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:22,319
process and then suddenly at the end of

1419
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:24,319
this process you made the decision to

1420
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:27,480
indeed you were not under oath uh and

1421
01:09:27,480 --> 01:09:28,440
obviously you were going to have to make

1422
01:09:28,440 --> 01:09:30,279
the determination as to whether the

1423
01:09:30,279 --> 01:09:33,359
public was indeed misled who misled him

1424
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:34,759
under what conditions were they were

1425
01:09:34,759 --> 01:09:39,239
misled and indeed uh uh should issues be

1426
01:09:39,239 --> 01:09:41,640
addressed with regard to the uh public

1427
01:09:41,640 --> 01:09:44,600
being misled with regard to uh the fact

1428
01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:46,920
that indeed they were informed as well

1429
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:49,960
as the fact under oath you swore and did

1430
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:52,520
the did the presentation uh and

1431
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,920
absolutely the uh ceremony of swearing

1432
01:09:55,920 --> 01:09:58,159
in and then suddenly at the end of the

1433
01:09:58,159 --> 01:10:00,719
case you decided to indeed make change

1434
01:10:00,719 --> 01:10:02,679
your mind I would also want to make uh

1435
01:10:02,679 --> 01:10:05,000
find out when exactly you decided to

1436
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:07,280
change your mind and if indeed the

1437
01:10:07,280 --> 01:10:10,800
public uh uh was indeed intentionally

1438
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:13,040
misled as a result of that decision and

1439
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:15,800
the timings of those decisions uh next

1440
01:10:15,800 --> 01:10:18,640
we want to discuss all the powers which

1441
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:21,360
have been uh enumerated to this board of

1442
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,480
appeals uh by you and apparently the

1443
01:10:25,480 --> 01:10:28,360
powers are quite extensive as to what is

1444
01:10:28,360 --> 01:10:30,719
happening uh in other words uh

1445
01:10:30,719 --> 01:10:33,400
apparently the board of appeals has the

1446
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,239
power to order individuals to engage in

1447
01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:38,199
certain acts I was unaware that the

1448
01:10:38,199 --> 01:10:39,560
board of appeals had any power

1449
01:10:39,560 --> 01:10:42,679
whatsoever to order any individual but

1450
01:10:42,679 --> 01:10:45,560
apparently uh you you now do the power

1451
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:48,440
is to order Town officials to engage in

1452
01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:50,400
particular acts the power over

1453
01:10:50,400 --> 01:10:53,199
administrative agencies telling the uh

1454
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:55,000
Planning Commission what they can and

1455
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:56,760
can't do the power is to tell

1456
01:10:56,760 --> 01:10:58,840
administrative agencies how to hear

1457
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,320
cases in other words you are now going

1458
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:02,760
to be telling them where how and where

1459
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:04,400
they can hear the case and what they can

1460
01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:06,840
do the power to of the board of appeals

1461
01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:08,800
that can tell administrative agencies

1462
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:10,960
how to rule on cases because it's

1463
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:12,480
presumed that indeed if you're telling

1464
01:11:12,480 --> 01:11:14,480
them to hear the case then you're also

1465
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:16,679
telling them how they indeed can rule in

1466
01:11:16,679 --> 01:11:18,159
the case and they must follow your

1467
01:11:18,159 --> 01:11:20,400
instruction with regard to how they can

1468
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,320
hear a case the power to tell the

1469
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:24,719
administrative agencies how that they

1470
01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:27,960
will hear cases on an expedited basis uh

1471
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:29,600
the powers that would require them to

1472
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:32,120
follow a particular

1473
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:38,120
law uh you know with regard to determination

1474
01:11:38,120 --> 01:11:39,560
uh later it's been determined that

1475
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,760
indeed the board of appeals now has what

1476
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:44,719
is apparent revenue and taxing Authority

1477
01:11:44,719 --> 01:11:48,080
as indeed Mr uh Blitz has informed the

1478
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,920
public and the Town Council that indeed

1479
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:53,480
uh revenue and taxing issues that may be

1480
01:11:53,480 --> 01:11:57,080
occurring will now be coming through the board of appeals indeed that

1481
01:11:57,080 --> 01:11:58,480
indicates that indeed the board of

1482
01:11:58,480 --> 01:12:00,840
appeals now has revenue and taxing

1483
01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:03,360
Authority which can be reviewed also

1484
01:12:03,360 --> 01:12:09,679
based upon uh Mr um Fishman um um uh

1485
01:12:09,679 --> 01:12:13,400
Fishman fish Fisher I'm sorry um that

1486
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,520
indeed the this board now has apparent

1487
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,159
authority over taking issues uh I would

1488
01:12:18,159 --> 01:12:21,800
ask the Mr uh Blitz whether he is aware

1489
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:23,960
whether the board actually understands

1490
01:12:23,960 --> 01:12:27,520
what taking issues are uh and also I

1491
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:30,199
would ask that indeed uh has has he is

1492
01:12:30,199 --> 01:12:32,040
he aware of any possible issue with

1493
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,239
regard to taking of property that can be

1494
01:12:34,239 --> 01:12:35,960
heard by an administrative board other

1495
01:12:35,960 --> 01:12:40,960
than by courts um uh and also uh the

1496
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:44,080
general power of the uh of the board of

1497
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:47,120
appeals to overturn Town Council in

1498
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:50,080
making decisions which which without

1499
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:53,159
that determination to come first then in

1500
01:12:53,159 --> 01:12:56,239
essence uh the rest of the uh this whole

1501
01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:00,760
process becomes moot so in essence the the underlying decision that has to

1502
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:02,880
be made is that you have the authority

1503
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:05,990
to overturn Town

1504
01:13:06,000 --> 01:13:08,199
Council uh I would ask Mr Blitz

1505
01:13:08,199 --> 01:13:11,760
including the fact that um uh whether

1506
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:15,280
indeed uh these courts types of cases

1507
01:13:15,280 --> 01:13:17,360
indeed should be handled in the courts

1508
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,520
or by the board of appeals if is by the

1509
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,400
board of appeals the uh I would ask why

1510
01:13:22,400 --> 01:13:23,880
he's the one that chose the board of

1511
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:25,920
appeals obviously we're here because he

1512
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:28,440
chose them uh no one else chose them but

1513
01:13:28,440 --> 01:13:30,719
him he's the one that made the decision

1514
01:13:30,719 --> 01:13:33,159
and in essence uh I'm going to ask him

1515
01:13:33,159 --> 01:13:37,199
why um uh and also I'm G to ask him the

1516
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:39,320
question of that something that was said

1517
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:41,840
earlier by the chair in in an earlier

1518
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,080
meeting we generally do not handle this

1519
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:47,040
type of case uh that's very prophetic

1520
01:13:47,040 --> 01:13:50,000
and also the question is why are we here

1521
01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:52,360
uh in doing this but again that was his

1522
01:13:52,360 --> 01:13:54,719
decision to bring this type of case uh I

1523
01:13:54,719 --> 01:13:56,199
would also ask him based upon his

1524
01:13:56,199 --> 01:13:58,560
experience whether and I think he even

1525
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,440
brought it up tonight the board of

1526
01:14:00,440 --> 01:14:03,040
appeals can interpret Supreme Court

1527
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:06,639
cases uh indeed many courts don't even

1528
01:14:06,639 --> 01:14:09,040
uh interpret Supreme Court cases because

1529
01:14:09,040 --> 01:14:11,280
indeed the Supreme Court interprets

1530
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,040
their own cases as opposed to an

1531
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:16,000
administrative agency uh especially uh

1532
01:14:16,000 --> 01:14:18,719
lay preval on a board of appeals uh and

1533
01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:20,800
then I would ask questions such as

1534
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,040
whether the uh board of appeals can uh

1535
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:26,440
indeed overturn decisions of the Town

1536
01:14:26,440 --> 01:14:28,719
Council and whether he is aware of any

1537
01:14:28,719 --> 01:14:30,880
other decisions to overrule those

1538
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:39,390
decisions of Town

1539
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:42,199
Council uh I would further ask him uh

1540
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:46,000
about the uh inth Authority uh that that

1541
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,280
he has that indeed is is being stated by

1542
01:14:48,280 --> 01:14:50,000
Mr Blitz you know regarding that

1543
01:14:50,000 --> 01:14:52,960
authority to make those

1544
01:14:52,960 --> 01:14:55,920
decisions I would ask uh uh him that

1545
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,159
indeed uh if he was aware of my letters

1546
01:14:59,159 --> 01:15:01,600
which have been in uh introduced before

1547
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:03,679
the board that are part of this record

1548
01:15:03,679 --> 01:15:07,920
that indeed the uh being informed by the

1549
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,800
uh individuals from the town in other

1550
01:15:10,800 --> 01:15:13,000
words the Town Council the zoning ad

1551
01:15:13,000 --> 01:15:15,679
administrator and also the uh uh Town

1552
01:15:15,679 --> 01:15:21,960
Administrator that indeed the board of appeals does not have this

1553
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:25,600
Authority whatsoever and that in essence

1554
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,800
uh the decision by this board of appeals

1555
01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,960
to indeed overturn that uh uh those

1556
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:34,320
decisions and that information so in

1557
01:15:34,320 --> 01:15:37,159
essence uh and also information that

1558
01:15:37,159 --> 01:15:40,040
indeed make sure this board is on notice

1559
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:41,560
that indeed the proper authority to

1560
01:15:41,560 --> 01:15:43,280
handle this type of jurisdiction if

1561
01:15:43,280 --> 01:15:47,040
there is a claim by uh Roden reel would

1562
01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:50,120
be the courts um that indeed that's

1563
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,440
what's going to be the true issue here

1564
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:54,600
uh because one way or the other it's

1565
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:56,080
going to happen you know that's what's

1566
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,719
going to happen here so in essence also

1567
01:15:59,719 --> 01:16:02,080
uh I would ask Mr Blitz in essence if

1568
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:05,120
indeed the mechanism in which he he

1569
01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,679
would think that the board of appeals

1570
01:16:08,679 --> 01:16:11,199
would intend to enforce a particular

1571
01:16:11,199 --> 01:16:13,480
order uh I think that would be very

1572
01:16:13,480 --> 01:16:15,480
interesting that indeed how the board of

1573
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:18,120
appeals plans to enforce the order

1574
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:21,239
because if indeed they are try going to

1575
01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:25,199
try to enforce it uh uh through the

1576
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:27,520
courts well then in essence that's what

1577
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:29,080
we've been saying that this proceeding

1578
01:16:29,080 --> 01:16:31,040
should be in the courts the whole time

1579
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,320
and in essence the last 30 hours have

1580
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:35,080
been a complete waste of the Public's

1581
01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:37,880
time and also as I put down it's

1582
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:41,040
basically becomes a sham because indeed

1583
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:42,360
it should have been in the courts to

1584
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:44,560
begin with and if you decide that indeed

1585
01:16:44,560 --> 01:16:47,040
you have the power but can't enforce it

1586
01:16:47,040 --> 01:16:49,199
then indeed Mr Blitz is indeed

1587
01:16:49,199 --> 01:16:51,840
misleading the public and also the town

1588
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:53,520
uh the board of appeals so that's going

1589
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:55,520
to be interesting the way

1590
01:16:55,520 --> 01:17:00,000
indeed uh the the uh board of appeals

1591
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:02,880
tries to enforce a particular order when

1592
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:04,719
according to the records that have

1593
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:06,520
already been submitted and are a part of

1594
01:17:06,520 --> 01:17:08,960
this record both the zoning

1595
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:11,080
administrator the Town Administrator and

1596
01:17:11,080 --> 01:17:13,400
the board of appeals uh and the Planning

1597
01:17:13,400 --> 01:17:17,239
Commission uh intend not to follow your

1598
01:17:17,239 --> 01:17:19,360
instructions because indeed you don't

1599
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:21,120
have the authority and it's going to be

1600
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:22,679
interesting to see what happens indeed

1601
01:17:22,679 --> 01:17:25,080
when you make an order and it ignored by

1602
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:40,030
these by these uh

1603
01:17:40,040 --> 01:17:42,360
agencies uh and then I would ask Mr

1604
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,360
Blitz which is an interesting question

1605
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:46,520
uh he has said a number of times that he

1606
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:49,280
believes that uh one of the powers that

1607
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:53,679
you have uh is to issue this permit

1608
01:17:53,679 --> 01:17:56,560
yourself uh uh in other words don't make

1609
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:58,639
an order to someone else don't try to

1610
01:17:58,639 --> 01:18:00,600
get someone else to to engage a

1611
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,080
particular act in which apparently he's

1612
01:18:03,080 --> 01:18:04,480
saying with regard to all those Powers

1613
01:18:04,480 --> 01:18:06,560
you do but in essence that that the

1614
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:09,520
board of appeals has the power to issue

1615
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:13,239
the permit themself uh and uh and I said

1616
01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:14,880
it before and I'll say it again I

1617
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:16,760
encourage you to do it I mean if you got

1618
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,040
the power sign off on it and indeed

1619
01:18:20,040 --> 01:18:24,040
issue these permits yourself okay now

1620
01:18:24,040 --> 01:18:25,719
the downside okay which of course you

1621
01:18:25,719 --> 01:18:27,679
haven't signed when you whenever you

1622
01:18:27,679 --> 01:18:29,760
wish and everybody to sign off on them

1623
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,920
everybody up there to sign off on them

1624
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:34,320
uh because what's important if there is

1625
01:18:34,320 --> 01:18:36,520
any exposure any liability or any issues

1626
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:39,080
the person excuse me uh sorry for

1627
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:41,600
interrupting but aren't these questions

1628
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,360
you're supposed to be uh posing

1629
01:18:43,360 --> 01:18:47,520
hypothetically to Mr uh as opposed to

1630
01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,600
making your argument your summation your

1631
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,000
closing argument okay well okay then I

1632
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:53,960
will redirect that question okay Mr

1633
01:18:53,960 --> 01:18:55,280
Blitz has said a number number of times

1634
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,120
that indeed the board should indeed

1635
01:18:57,120 --> 01:19:00,239
issue the permit okay and uh he has said

1636
01:19:00,239 --> 01:19:03,239
a number of times and to move this along

1637
01:19:03,239 --> 01:19:06,960
I agree okay indeed I agree and and as a

1638
01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:09,159
proper to make sure the board is aware

1639
01:19:09,159 --> 01:19:10,600
you know whenever you sign off on the

1640
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,960
permit it means that you are liable so

1641
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:15,920
indeed if anybody gets flooded if

1642
01:19:15,920 --> 01:19:18,280
anybody gets harmed if anybody in

1643
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:22,080
essence uh uh is is in any way damaged

1644
01:19:22,080 --> 01:19:24,159
as a result of these houses going in a

1645
01:19:24,159 --> 01:19:26,000
flood plane it's not going to be the

1646
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:27,480
town it's not going to be the Town

1647
01:19:27,480 --> 01:19:29,600
Council it's going to be the board of

1648
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:32,120
appeals okay and indeed he's the one

1649
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,560
requesting it I encourage you to do it

1650
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:36,280
indeed if you've got the power to do it

1651
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:38,000
we're we're going on and on with regard

1652
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:39,960
to this additional power that he says

1653
01:19:39,960 --> 01:19:42,840
you have which that that's perfectly

1654
01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,000
fine to do can you please direct this at

1655
01:19:45,000 --> 01:19:46,920
him that's what the profer is right that

1656
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:48,920
no the profer was to you okay because

1657
01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,000
indeed he wasn't going to know indeed

1658
01:19:51,000 --> 01:19:52,679
whether you had the power to do this or

1659
01:19:52,679 --> 01:19:55,400
the liability as a result of it purpose

1660
01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:56,639
of what we're doing here is instead of

1661
01:19:56,639 --> 01:19:58,639
cross examination you're giving a proper

1662
01:19:58,639 --> 01:19:59,760
which are the questions you would have

1663
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:02,159
asked him I think addressing us

1664
01:20:02,159 --> 01:20:04,840
completely different matter

1665
01:20:04,840 --> 01:20:07,080
arew address that in make sure the board

1666
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:10,199
was informed with regard to that indeed

1667
01:20:10,199 --> 01:20:12,480
they would be personally liable you know

1668
01:20:12,480 --> 01:20:14,080
for the issuance of the permit that you

1669
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:26,830
suggested thank you um uh

1670
01:20:26,840 --> 01:20:27,840
well I think those are the questions

1671
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:33,310
that I would have immediately for Mr

1672
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:38,360
Bliss okay um we

1673
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,920
are but on time so we are going to open

1674
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,560
the floor up to questions for Mr Blitz

1675
01:20:44,560 --> 01:20:47,560
if you would like to leor announce your

1676
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:52,870
name

1677
01:20:52,880 --> 01:20:55,800
and it's up to your judgment as to how

1678
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:57,280
you interpret them because we are

1679
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:58,920
allowing the public to ask you questions

1680
01:20:58,920 --> 01:21:00,400
whether you interpret them as clarifying

1681
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:05,030
or cross- examinations is

1682
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,920
okay actually pause uh this been a

1683
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:09,960
little while let's take five minutes and

1684
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:12,360
do it again is that all right with you

1685
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,040
it it's only actually really

1686
01:21:15,040 --> 01:21:20,719
quick I listening to here I find that if

1687
01:21:20,719 --> 01:21:22,000
there was

1688
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:24,159
questions that they could be submitted

1689
01:21:24,159 --> 01:21:26,880
to the board Bo and ask that way from

1690
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:30,920
the general public that that would be a

1691
01:21:30,920 --> 01:22:05,270
proper way one moment

1692
01:22:05,280 --> 01:22:07,480
unfortunately the questions have to be

1693
01:22:07,480 --> 01:22:10,719
asked at this at this stage in our uh

1694
01:22:10,719 --> 01:22:12,840
process there will not be a further step

1695
01:22:12,840 --> 01:22:14,840
to ask questions of Mr blitz's

1696
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:17,800
presentation I'll take the five let's do

1697
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:50,790
five thank you

1698
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:52,960
way

1699
01:22:52,960 --> 01:23:02,470
actually on or did I did go on

1700
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:05,040
vacation that was in

1701
01:23:05,040 --> 01:23:09,510
Germany after was after your

1702
01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:13,159
trip no it was fun River

1703
01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:22,350
Cru

1704
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:34,590
Prague there

1705
01:23:34,600 --> 01:23:44,750
was well Ed

1706
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:53,110
tourist one

1707
01:23:53,120 --> 01:23:56,239
wall I have

1708
01:23:56,239 --> 01:23:59,310
project you

1709
01:23:59,320 --> 01:24:03,350
think to

1710
01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:18,950
concentration oh that there was

1711
01:24:18,960 --> 01:24:42,070
one and

1712
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,280
seven I really my

1713
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:58,149
no that

1714
01:24:58,159 --> 01:25:26,870
inter

1715
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:39,040
all

1716
01:25:39,050 --> 01:26:10,390
[Music]

1717
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:16,560
and I neighor we live about as far as of

1718
01:26:16,560 --> 01:26:19,950
the building

1719
01:26:19,960 --> 01:26:21,679
there

1720
01:26:21,679 --> 01:26:23,800
research he's been on the board of

1721
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:25,400
recors the

1722
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:29,320
home a long time

1723
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:42,070
very so we work

1724
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:45,400
closely very

1725
01:26:45,400 --> 01:26:47,920
person it's

1726
01:26:47,920 --> 01:26:52,149
like job

1727
01:26:52,159 --> 01:26:55,119
you go do

1728
01:26:55,119 --> 01:26:58,000
now good C on

1729
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:01,560
you okay we will resume um once again

1730
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:03,280
members of the public if you have

1731
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:06,760
questions about um Mr blitz's

1732
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,159
presentation you may step forward and

1733
01:27:09,159 --> 01:27:21,590
ask

1734
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,199
them um just to clarify these are just

1735
01:27:24,199 --> 01:27:25,760
profer questions cuz he's not answering

1736
01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:28,719
anything uh no he is he has license to

1737
01:27:28,719 --> 01:27:31,960
answer if he so chooses he may blank it

1738
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,000
or individually

1739
01:27:35,000 --> 01:27:39,880
however okay um to help you out Miss

1740
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,760
Blackwelder whether it's Miz or miss or

1741
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:44,760
um if you're asking me questions that

1742
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:46,000
are in the nature of

1743
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:48,159
cross-examination then I'm going to

1744
01:27:48,159 --> 01:27:49,520
decline to answer them and you should

1745
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:52,080
profer you're asking questions about the

1746
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,920
General application our case

1747
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:59,719
what something that I would it's not a

1748
01:27:59,719 --> 01:28:03,000
factual question but a question about

1749
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:04,679
the arguments that have been presented I

1750
01:28:04,679 --> 01:28:07,560
can answer those so I don't I don't know

1751
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:08,719
whether you're trying to cross-examine

1752
01:28:08,719 --> 01:28:10,679
me as a witness or you're just trying to

1753
01:28:10,679 --> 01:28:13,560
ask the applicant questions about the

1754
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:16,000
presentation that's been made so far

1755
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,320
okay so so I'm not a lawyer so I

1756
01:28:18,320 --> 01:28:21,159
wouldn't know the differentiation so why

1757
01:28:21,159 --> 01:28:27,270
don't you ask them in all yeah um

1758
01:28:27,280 --> 01:28:29,239
the first question is are you aware that

1759
01:28:29,239 --> 01:28:30,880
the board of appeals does not have the

1760
01:28:30,880 --> 01:28:33,199
power to rule on a moratorium would you

1761
01:28:33,199 --> 01:28:35,159
agree with that no I would not agree

1762
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:39,360
with that it's a question of Law and

1763
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:41,960
that's I have

1764
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,119
said actually why don't you restate that

1765
01:28:44,119 --> 01:28:47,669
question just to make sure I got it

1766
01:28:47,679 --> 01:28:49,800
correctly Miss blackw Welter can you

1767
01:28:49,800 --> 01:28:52,679
speak this way into the mic so we can

1768
01:28:52,679 --> 01:28:54,400
all hear you could you excuse me while I

1769
01:28:54,400 --> 01:28:56,080
get a piece of paper so I can read

1770
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:57,800
something from the

1771
01:28:57,800 --> 01:29:01,000
code um it's right at the chair yeah go

1772
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:22,709
ahead I'll be right

1773
01:29:22,719 --> 01:29:28,390
back excuse

1774
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:30,520
and I I apologize but there was no

1775
01:29:30,520 --> 01:29:34,080
agenda posted for this and the last

1776
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:37,000
meeting I was under the oppression that

1777
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,040
Mr Woodburn was going to be questioned

1778
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:42,760
by Mr pounds and and not that Mr Donovan

1779
01:29:42,760 --> 01:29:45,199
or Mr Blitz would be questioned by

1780
01:29:45,199 --> 01:29:49,910
anyone

1781
01:29:49,920 --> 01:30:12,910
um so I'm a bit unprepared for this

1782
01:30:12,920 --> 01:30:14,800
okay

1783
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:19,080
um so 290

1784
01:30:19,080 --> 01:30:22,199
d32e confines the duties of the board of

1785
01:30:22,199 --> 01:30:24,440
appeals regarding interpret ation

1786
01:30:24,440 --> 01:30:25,840
questions where it is alleged that there

1787
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:29,000
is an error made in the enforcement of

1788
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:32,239
this chapter meaning chapter

1789
01:30:32,239 --> 01:30:34,280
290

1790
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:40,950
so is the implementation or a

1791
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:43,600
resolution to have a moratorium on site

1792
01:30:43,600 --> 01:30:46,400
plan development

1793
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:49,520
Within Chapter

1794
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:55,119
290 it changed the effect of the section

1795
01:30:55,119 --> 01:30:57,880
of the zoning code

1796
01:30:57,880 --> 01:31:01,600
that applied uh required site plan

1797
01:31:01,600 --> 01:31:03,360
review and required the zoning

1798
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:06,480
administrator to assist with site plan

1799
01:31:06,480 --> 01:31:08,320
review and

1800
01:31:08,320 --> 01:31:14,119
so the allegations made in in our appeal

1801
01:31:14,119 --> 01:31:15,960
is that the board I mean the zoning

1802
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:17,119
administrator and the Planning and

1803
01:31:17,119 --> 01:31:20,159
Zoning commission failed to follow that

1804
01:31:20,159 --> 01:31:22,600
obligation in

1805
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:27,560
Reliance upon on a moratorium that had

1806
01:31:27,560 --> 01:31:30,920
was first described as a temporary

1807
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:32,960
moratorium was then

1808
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:36,280
extended for an additional three months

1809
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:38,080
and then after that expiration and the

1810
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,400
comprehensive plan still had not been

1811
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:42,840
completed we waited 60 days to see

1812
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:44,560
whether our pending applications would

1813
01:31:44,560 --> 01:31:47,360
be taken up I shouldn't say hour the rod

1814
01:31:47,360 --> 01:31:50,119
and reel applications were taken up they

1815
01:31:50,119 --> 01:31:52,960
were not I sent a letter to the zoning

1816
01:31:52,960 --> 01:31:54,320
administrator and planning zoning

1817
01:31:54,320 --> 01:31:56,840
commission demanding that now that the

1818
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:00,840
moratorium had expired by its own terms

1819
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:03,280
that they go ahead and do that that's

1820
01:32:03,280 --> 01:32:07,840
already in evidence um

1821
01:32:07,840 --> 01:32:11,040
that I received no response

1822
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:14,109
from

1823
01:32:14,119 --> 01:32:16,480
um the zoning administrator Planning and

1824
01:32:16,480 --> 01:32:19,639
Zoning commission um that is the rod and

1825
01:32:19,639 --> 01:32:21,719
reel didn't we received a response from

1826
01:32:21,719 --> 01:32:24,400
Mr pounds

1827
01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:27,400
instead arguing that the moratorium was

1828
01:32:27,400 --> 01:32:30,400
only terminable terminated at the point

1829
01:32:30,400 --> 01:32:32,040
that the Planning and Zoning commission

1830
01:32:32,040 --> 01:32:35,920
and the town administ uh I apologize the

1831
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,159
um Town

1832
01:32:38,159 --> 01:32:42,280
Council uh said so uh or he didn't he

1833
01:32:42,280 --> 01:32:43,560
didn't use those words I shouldn't say

1834
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:46,080
it but it's an exhibit so I can

1835
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:48,560
certainly read it if you want but that's

1836
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:53,480
what the case is about and so your

1837
01:32:53,480 --> 01:32:54,480
question

1838
01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:57,159
is whether it's within the scope of this

1839
01:32:57,159 --> 01:33:00,800
board's authority to rule on such a

1840
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,560
matter on a moratorium correct well

1841
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:04,920
they're not ruling on the moratorium

1842
01:33:04,920 --> 01:33:07,040
they're ruling on whether it was legally

1843
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:09,040
effective and therefore a justification

1844
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:12,520
for a a an adequate legal justification

1845
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:15,520
for not following the requirements of

1846
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:17,880
the zoning code which require site

1847
01:33:17,880 --> 01:33:22,520
plan upon submission to be reviewed and

1848
01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:24,960
considered so so it's

1849
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:27,199
not that the board doesn't have the

1850
01:33:27,199 --> 01:33:28,480
authority to

1851
01:33:28,480 --> 01:33:30,960
overturn an action of the Town Council

1852
01:33:30,960 --> 01:33:33,199
that's not what it's what we're asking

1853
01:33:33,199 --> 01:33:36,280
for we're saying that the re the

1854
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,239
moratorium that the Planning and Zoning

1855
01:33:38,239 --> 01:33:39,639
commission and the zoning administrator

1856
01:33:39,639 --> 01:33:41,840
relied upon for not filing the site

1857
01:33:41,840 --> 01:33:45,480
plans was legally invalid and therefore

1858
01:33:45,480 --> 01:33:48,440
their failure to follow the law was

1859
01:33:48,440 --> 01:33:51,600
invalid in the same way that a board of

1860
01:33:51,600 --> 01:33:54,679
appeals can uh review the

1861
01:33:54,679 --> 01:33:58,719
constitutionality of a law um po versus

1862
01:33:58,719 --> 01:34:01,159
Baltimore that I cited I believe at the

1863
01:34:01,159 --> 01:34:04,600
last hearing of the hearing before um

1864
01:34:04,600 --> 01:34:07,280
and so it's not that they're

1865
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:09,000
overturning

1866
01:34:09,000 --> 01:34:12,119
the Town Council it's that they're

1867
01:34:12,119 --> 01:34:14,119
saying that the effect of what the Town

1868
01:34:14,119 --> 01:34:17,119
Council did was invalid and therefore

1869
01:34:17,119 --> 01:34:19,639
the administrators were wrong in in

1870
01:34:19,639 --> 01:34:23,000
relying upon it to fail to Grant the

1871
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:24,600
relief we were seeing seeking uh

1872
01:34:24,600 --> 01:34:27,520
actually I shouldn't say Grant consider

1873
01:34:27,520 --> 01:34:30,480
the applications process

1874
01:34:30,480 --> 01:34:33,480
them nothing in our case presumes that

1875
01:34:33,480 --> 01:34:35,719
they were going to necessarily grant

1876
01:34:35,719 --> 01:34:39,960
them we didn't get them that

1877
01:34:39,960 --> 01:34:42,840
review did that answer your

1878
01:34:42,840 --> 01:34:45,679
question yes

1879
01:34:45,679 --> 01:34:48,679
um did you ever challenge the Town

1880
01:34:48,679 --> 01:34:50,480
Council and the mayor

1881
01:34:50,480 --> 01:34:52,880
legally about the moratorium that you

1882
01:34:52,880 --> 01:34:54,560
claim is

1883
01:34:54,560 --> 01:34:57,280
invalid and do you have a document that

1884
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,600
this board of appeals can rely on

1885
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:04,470
stating that the moratorium is in fact

1886
01:35:04,480 --> 01:35:07,719
invalid oh no there's not a document

1887
01:35:07,719 --> 01:35:09,320
that would say that this that's what

1888
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,360
this case is turning upon is this

1889
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:14,719
board's determination we've made the

1890
01:35:14,719 --> 01:35:17,000
arguments as to why it's invalid we had

1891
01:35:17,000 --> 01:35:20,320
couple nights is on that Bas describing

1892
01:35:20,320 --> 01:35:23,440
all the laws that come into play and why

1893
01:35:23,440 --> 01:35:24,480
it was

1894
01:35:24,480 --> 01:35:28,679
invalid um and I should mention that

1895
01:35:28,679 --> 01:35:31,159
even after the moratorium expired the

1896
01:35:31,159 --> 01:35:33,199
applications were not processed and

1897
01:35:33,199 --> 01:35:36,520
therefore you've got a problem there as

1898
01:35:36,520 --> 01:35:38,360
well

1899
01:35:38,360 --> 01:35:42,800
um but um I want to make sure I'm honing

1900
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:44,480
in on exactly what your question is oh

1901
01:35:44,480 --> 01:35:46,280
you asked me whether there's a document

1902
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:47,440
no there's no

1903
01:35:47,440 --> 01:35:50,600
document and you asked whether we went

1904
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:52,480
to the Town Council no we didn't go to

1905
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:55,440
the Town Council there's no process for

1906
01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:58,400
going to the Town Council in a zoning

1907
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:03,239
case or to contest their actions I did

1908
01:36:03,239 --> 01:36:05,239
and this is already in evidence I'd have

1909
01:36:05,239 --> 01:36:10,310
to site the exhibit but

1910
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:14,320
um I did send the mayor and Town

1911
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:17,719
Council a long letter explain a

1912
01:36:17,719 --> 01:36:19,440
three-page letter it's already in

1913
01:36:19,440 --> 01:36:22,000
evidence explaining

1914
01:36:22,000 --> 01:36:25,679
why it was in appropriate to use a

1915
01:36:25,679 --> 01:36:27,880
resolution uh to pass an ordinance and

1916
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:31,040
they had to use an uh pass a moratorium

1917
01:36:31,040 --> 01:36:33,080
and that they had to use an ordinance

1918
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:36,159
that was sent to them uh prior to their

1919
01:36:36,159 --> 01:36:38,840
action in adopting that resolution so

1920
01:36:38,840 --> 01:36:40,639
they obviously disagree but no I we

1921
01:36:40,639 --> 01:36:43,639
didn't go to the Town Council to do

1922
01:36:43,639 --> 01:36:45,840
anything there's no process or procedure

1923
01:36:45,840 --> 01:36:47,840
for

1924
01:36:47,840 --> 01:36:51,000
that did you file a legal challenge to

1925
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:52,920
the moratorium against the Town Council

1926
01:36:52,920 --> 01:36:54,800
and the mayor

1927
01:36:54,800 --> 01:36:58,360
no and when you say we uh did I

1928
01:36:58,360 --> 01:37:00,000
obviously you're talking about for the

1929
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:03,239
rotten reel I assume correctly yes sure

1930
01:37:03,239 --> 01:37:05,880
you are your client

1931
01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:08,719
um so are you asking the board of

1932
01:37:08,719 --> 01:37:12,310
appeals to

1933
01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:16,840
decide on the Merit of a moratorium the

1934
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:19,800
vity of a moratorium in the absence of a

1935
01:37:19,800 --> 01:37:25,550
ruling on the moratorium

1936
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:27,440
I don't understand your question what

1937
01:37:27,440 --> 01:37:29,400
ruling on the moratorium are you asking

1938
01:37:29,400 --> 01:37:32,600
for or or referencing in your question I

1939
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:35,040
think that's more my point that there is

1940
01:37:35,040 --> 01:37:37,840
no ruling on the moratorium

1941
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,880
therefore the board of appeals is being

1942
01:37:40,880 --> 01:37:43,639
asked to decide and rule on the

1943
01:37:43,639 --> 01:37:45,280
moratorium is that what you're asking

1944
01:37:45,280 --> 01:37:48,440
them to do being they're as yes they are

1945
01:37:48,440 --> 01:37:51,320
being asked to consider whether it was

1946
01:37:51,320 --> 01:37:52,920
lawful for the Planning and Zoning

1947
01:37:52,920 --> 01:37:57,199
administrator and Zoning administrator and planning

1948
01:37:57,199 --> 01:38:00,000
and zoning commission to rely upon the

1949
01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:02,800
moratorium which was invalid according

1950
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:05,639
to our theory of the

1951
01:38:05,639 --> 01:38:08,440
case as an excuse for not following

1952
01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:10,679
their statutory obligation to process

1953
01:38:10,679 --> 01:38:14,280
site plans upon being submitted in

1954
01:38:14,280 --> 01:38:18,239
addition the second part of the case is

1955
01:38:18,239 --> 01:38:23,920
that they didn't provide that review

1956
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:29,390
even though the moratorium had

1957
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,520
expired

1958
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,719
so I don't know whether you're asking

1959
01:38:33,719 --> 01:38:35,679
whether we have to go to court first

1960
01:38:35,679 --> 01:38:38,320
that's a legal question no we don't have

1961
01:38:38,320 --> 01:38:40,280
to go to for court first in in fact many

1962
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:41,960
instances we have to come to this board

1963
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:43,599
first to exhaust our administrative

1964
01:38:43,599 --> 01:38:45,840
remedies before we can go to

1965
01:38:45,840 --> 01:38:49,520
court we could have done a declaratory

1966
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:51,960
judgment action against the ordinance

1967
01:38:51,960 --> 01:38:55,080
but we don't have to but you would agree

1968
01:38:55,080 --> 01:38:58,520
that deciding the valid validity of a

1969
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,320
resolution to implement a moratorium or

1970
01:39:01,320 --> 01:39:03,280
the legality of a resolution to

1971
01:39:03,280 --> 01:39:07,239
implement a Mor moratorium is not within

1972
01:39:07,239 --> 01:39:09,480
scope of this board I would not agree

1973
01:39:09,480 --> 01:39:11,320
with that I would say it's absolutely in

1974
01:39:11,320 --> 01:39:13,880
the scope of this board that's

1975
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:18,560
what the courts have held is that the

1976
01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:22,199
predicate Acts or the legal uh legal

1977
01:39:22,199 --> 01:39:24,159
basis for administ

1978
01:39:24,159 --> 01:39:26,040
action if it's either unconstitutional

1979
01:39:26,040 --> 01:39:29,119
or unlawful it's up to this board as the

1980
01:39:29,119 --> 01:39:32,800
first body to take a ruling if such an

1981
01:39:32,800 --> 01:39:34,639
appeal is filed we filed that appeal

1982
01:39:34,639 --> 01:39:36,760
it's incumbent upon this board

1983
01:39:36,760 --> 01:39:40,560
to decide whether we've proven our case

1984
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:43,440
if they do they're going to be the first

1985
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:45,639
they get the first crack at this and

1986
01:39:45,639 --> 01:39:48,360
that exhausts our administrative

1987
01:39:48,360 --> 01:39:51,080
remedies and you are asking that this

1988
01:39:51,080 --> 01:39:53,440
board

1989
01:39:53,440 --> 01:39:55,960
make that

1990
01:39:55,960 --> 01:39:58,719
determination without your providing

1991
01:39:58,719 --> 01:40:01,400
proof within your appeal that there has

1992
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:03,560
been a ruling by a body who is

1993
01:40:03,560 --> 01:40:05,480
authorized to make that ruling on a

1994
01:40:05,480 --> 01:40:08,000
moratorium there is no such body that

1995
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:11,520
makes that ruling that that doesn't

1996
01:40:11,520 --> 01:40:13,360
happen

1997
01:40:13,360 --> 01:40:15,920
there's we don't go and get a ruling

1998
01:40:15,920 --> 01:40:17,560
about the moratorium and then bring it

1999
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:21,560
to this board we bring it to the board

2000
01:40:21,560 --> 01:40:25,280
first they decide whether we're right

2001
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,560
that the moratorium was invalid and

2002
01:40:27,560 --> 01:40:29,400
therefore the Planning and

2003
01:40:29,400 --> 01:40:31,400
Zoning commission and the zoning

2004
01:40:31,400 --> 01:40:34,440
administrator should have processed the

2005
01:40:34,440 --> 01:40:36,960
applications or that after it had

2006
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:39,280
expired that they then should have

2007
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,000
process the

2008
01:40:41,000 --> 01:40:44,000
applications and then we have asked for

2009
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:47,320
the relief to be crafted in response to

2010
01:40:47,320 --> 01:40:50,199
that but you don't go and get a ruling

2011
01:40:50,199 --> 01:40:52,520
then to then submit to this board

2012
01:40:52,520 --> 01:40:58,000
there's no need to do that or requirement to do

2013
01:40:58,000 --> 01:41:02,040
that or that I know of any way of doing

2014
01:41:02,040 --> 01:41:04,639
that so you're saying that moratoriums

2015
01:41:04,639 --> 01:41:06,960
aren't challenged in court they are yes

2016
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:09,800
you can oh no you can challenge a

2017
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:13,320
moratorium in court yes correct so that

2018
01:41:13,320 --> 01:41:15,119
would be something that this board of

2019
01:41:15,119 --> 01:41:20,199
appeals could require as proof to Grant

2020
01:41:20,199 --> 01:41:25,669
your request which is a very big request

2021
01:41:25,679 --> 01:41:28,440
um if they were to Grant what you're

2022
01:41:28,440 --> 01:41:31,360
asking as part of your appeal no because

2023
01:41:31,360 --> 01:41:35,000
we elected to file an

2024
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:37,320
appeal so that we exhaust our

2025
01:41:37,320 --> 01:41:39,520
administrative remedies which is a

2026
01:41:39,520 --> 01:41:43,360
requirement of Marilyn law in bringing

2027
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:44,480
certain

2028
01:41:44,480 --> 01:41:48,280
cases so that's what we elected to do

2029
01:41:48,280 --> 01:41:50,880
once we decide to do that the rod and

2030
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:52,960
Rio has the right for this board to make

2031
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:54,159
a

2032
01:41:54,159 --> 01:41:56,280
determination about whether we've proven

2033
01:41:56,280 --> 01:41:58,320
our case as I've said

2034
01:41:58,320 --> 01:42:01,239
before what we've what we're alleging

2035
01:42:01,239 --> 01:42:05,000
but you we don't have to go to any court

2036
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:07,560
or other body to get a ruling to then

2037
01:42:07,560 --> 01:42:09,880
bring to this board of appeals in fact I

2038
01:42:09,880 --> 01:42:12,119
can't imagine what we would then be

2039
01:42:12,119 --> 01:42:18,470
asking of this board if that were the

2040
01:42:18,480 --> 01:42:22,400
case do you have any document from Mr

2041
01:42:22,400 --> 01:42:24,719
jabak was the zoning administrator at

2042
01:42:24,719 --> 01:42:27,199
the time stating that the site plans

2043
01:42:27,199 --> 01:42:29,040
that are subject to this

2044
01:42:29,040 --> 01:42:33,229
appeal are

2045
01:42:33,239 --> 01:42:36,639
complete I'm Sorry Miss uh black waler

2046
01:42:36,639 --> 01:42:39,400
can you repeat that I didn't hear

2047
01:42:39,400 --> 01:42:42,840
it my question

2048
01:42:42,840 --> 01:42:45,760
was do you or your client have any

2049
01:42:45,760 --> 01:42:48,480
document from Mr Chris chak the joning

2050
01:42:48,480 --> 01:42:51,750
the zoning

2051
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:54,800
administrator um at the time of

2052
01:42:54,800 --> 01:42:56,800
submission of these site plans that

2053
01:42:56,800 --> 01:42:58,880
confirms that the plans that were that

2054
01:42:58,880 --> 01:43:01,520
are subject to this site plan or I'm

2055
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:04,080
sorry that were subject to this appeal

2056
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:11,109
were

2057
01:43:11,119 --> 01:43:13,960
complete uh my reason for pausing is to

2058
01:43:13,960 --> 01:43:15,599
F figure out in my own mind whether this

2059
01:43:15,599 --> 01:43:18,000
is getting close to cross-examination

2060
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:19,840
type question because it's acting asking

2061
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,520
a fact I think it would not and

2062
01:43:23,520 --> 01:43:24,920
therefore she's just asking whether the

2063
01:43:24,920 --> 01:43:27,840
applicant ever received such a a

2064
01:43:27,840 --> 01:43:31,440
statement from Mr jabak and I would say

2065
01:43:31,440 --> 01:43:34,480
no what we re the only response we ever

2066
01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:37,040
received from Mr jabak about the

2067
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:39,599
applications was the exhibit that we

2068
01:43:39,599 --> 01:43:42,000
filed which is the February 5th email

2069
01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:43,679
telling us that they

2070
01:43:43,679 --> 01:43:45,719
were well I'm not going to repeat what

2071
01:43:45,719 --> 01:43:48,239
that document said that but that was the

2072
01:43:48,239 --> 01:43:50,599
only communication we received from Mr

2073
01:43:50,599 --> 01:43:53,639
jabak that I know of it's the only thing

2074
01:43:53,639 --> 01:43:58,669
in evidence that's for

2075
01:43:58,679 --> 01:44:04,599
sure so Mr jabak returned your money

2076
01:44:04,599 --> 01:44:08,239
for filing the appeals but he did

2077
01:44:08,239 --> 01:44:12,920
not indicate that they were complete now

2078
01:44:12,920 --> 01:44:17,280
the the evidence shows that Miss wall

2079
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:20,430
returned

2080
01:44:20,440 --> 01:44:24,599
the filing fees for the applications

2081
01:44:24,599 --> 01:44:26,440
although she didn't return the one for

2082
01:44:26,440 --> 01:44:29,480
Harbor Vista North which had been filed

2083
01:44:29,480 --> 01:44:31,040
previously

2084
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:35,400
and Mr uh jabak would have or had

2085
01:44:35,400 --> 01:44:37,119
nothing to do with that as far as I know

2086
01:44:37,119 --> 01:44:38,599
I

2087
01:44:38,599 --> 01:44:41,840
but that we submitted into evidence the

2088
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:44,639
letter from Miss wall returning those

2089
01:44:44,639 --> 01:44:46,800
fees didn't it still means the

2090
01:44:46,800 --> 01:44:48,639
applications are continued to be pending

2091
01:44:48,639 --> 01:44:50,520
you can't just deny the pending of an

2092
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:55,910
application

2093
01:44:55,920 --> 01:45:00,080
you have no way of knowing why Mr dubak

2094
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:02,239
did not bring those site plans to the

2095
01:45:02,239 --> 01:45:04,080
Planning Commission yes we submitted

2096
01:45:04,080 --> 01:45:06,000
that into the record it was the February

2097
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:09,000
5th email that where he stated why he

2098
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,360
wasn't doing it he was saying that this

2099
01:45:12,360 --> 01:45:14,560
was an unreasonable burden on the

2100
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:16,400
Planning and Zoning Commission in the

2101
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:19,560
town I mean if you want I'll get out the

2102
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:22,679
exact exhibit so that you can see it but

2103
01:45:22,679 --> 01:45:23,560
that's

2104
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:25,320
that was the zoning administrator's

2105
01:45:25,320 --> 01:45:27,520
position with respect to the

2106
01:45:27,520 --> 01:45:32,109
applications it's exhibit

2107
01:45:32,119 --> 01:45:35,480
7 and that's what I'm referring

2108
01:45:35,480 --> 01:45:37,639
to just let the record show that I'm

2109
01:45:37,639 --> 01:45:40,239
showing Miss Blackwelder ex my copy of

2110
01:45:40,239 --> 01:45:41,360
exhibit

2111
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:45,000
7 and that was the only communication we

2112
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,880
received from Mr jabc that I'm aware of

2113
01:45:47,880 --> 01:45:57,030
um with respect to the applications

2114
01:45:57,040 --> 01:45:59,960
okay but this

2115
01:45:59,960 --> 01:46:04,000
letter still doesn't say that a complete

2116
01:46:04,000 --> 01:46:07,960
site plan package was correct I answered

2117
01:46:07,960 --> 01:46:09,880
your question on that we never received

2118
01:46:09,880 --> 01:46:12,960
a any confirmation or anything like that

2119
01:46:12,960 --> 01:46:16,599
from Mr jabak about that it was never

2120
01:46:16,599 --> 01:46:20,840
brought up correct so this this letter

2121
01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:23,480
could just be giving you a heads up

2122
01:46:23,480 --> 01:46:25,880
no it was telling us that a moratorium

2123
01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:29,159
was about ready to be proposed it said

2124
01:46:29,159 --> 01:46:30,599
that there would be a public notice

2125
01:46:30,599 --> 01:46:36,119
going out they gave us the date of the Planning and Zoning commission's

2126
01:46:36,119 --> 01:46:37,159
uh

2127
01:46:37,159 --> 01:46:38,920
intended

2128
01:46:38,920 --> 01:46:41,840
moratorium um and that that was the

2129
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:44,920
reason you know that the site that that

2130
01:46:44,920 --> 01:46:47,800
was his response to the site

2131
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:51,679
plans the filing of the site plan

2132
01:46:51,679 --> 01:46:58,709
applications okay

2133
01:46:58,719 --> 01:47:02,159
so you said yourself Chris tobia cannot

2134
01:47:02,159 --> 01:47:04,960
be subpoenaed is that correct my

2135
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:06,679
understanding is that nobody can be

2136
01:47:06,679 --> 01:47:09,679
subpoenaed in this board okay and Chris

2137
01:47:09,679 --> 01:47:13,480
tobc did not bring these site plans to

2138
01:47:13,480 --> 01:47:15,520
the Planning Commission correct my

2139
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,119
knowledge no I mean we were never given

2140
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:19,880
notice of any hearing so when when the

2141
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:22,239
zoning administrator gets done their

2142
01:47:22,239 --> 01:47:23,360
review

2143
01:47:23,360 --> 01:47:25,320
actually I don't want to testify I'm

2144
01:47:25,320 --> 01:47:30,189
just going to leave it at

2145
01:47:30,199 --> 01:47:35,350
that

2146
01:47:35,360 --> 01:47:39,639
so are complete site is a complete site

2147
01:47:39,639 --> 01:47:42,760
plan package part of your submission to

2148
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:45,199
this board of appeals yes it's exhibits

2149
01:47:45,199 --> 01:47:47,040
two and three I

2150
01:47:47,040 --> 01:47:50,639
believe so exhibits two and

2151
01:47:50,639 --> 01:47:56,629
three are site plans

2152
01:47:56,639 --> 01:47:59,599
no I apologize exhibit two is

2153
01:47:59,599 --> 01:48:01,800
the

2154
01:48:01,800 --> 01:48:05,280
application because Sharon had it

2155
01:48:05,280 --> 01:48:11,830
her exhibit one would have been the

2156
01:48:11,840 --> 01:48:14,119
um the board

2157
01:48:14,119 --> 01:48:16,560
secretary uh affidavit with respect to

2158
01:48:16,560 --> 01:48:18,960
posting of properties and giving

2159
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:22,000
certified letters so exhibit two was

2160
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:24,840
that so let me move

2161
01:48:24,840 --> 01:48:39,270
ahead

2162
01:48:39,280 --> 01:48:42,679
to I apologize it's exhibits five and

2163
01:48:42,679 --> 01:48:45,760
six five was the whole package of all

2164
01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:49,800
the site plans in digital form and six

2165
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:55,750
was the actual form application

2166
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:56,920
so the

2167
01:48:56,920 --> 01:49:01,709
complete

2168
01:49:01,719 --> 01:49:04,960
package of your site plans have been

2169
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:06,920
submitted to this board of

2170
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:15,360
appeals and you are stating that that package constitutes a complete site

2171
01:49:15,360 --> 01:49:17,840
plan package with everything per the

2172
01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:20,480
code that would be required by the

2173
01:49:20,480 --> 01:49:22,480
Planning Commission to review a site

2174
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:24,119
plan I'm not going to answer that

2175
01:49:24,119 --> 01:49:25,960
because that's asking me to testify

2176
01:49:25,960 --> 01:49:28,320
about the

2177
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:34,870
evidence I

2178
01:49:34,880 --> 01:49:36,960
apologize is there something that you

2179
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:38,760
know of in the code that

2180
01:49:38,760 --> 01:49:41,599
determines when a site plan package

2181
01:49:41,599 --> 01:49:45,840
submitted to the zoning administrator is

2182
01:49:45,840 --> 01:49:50,480
complete well there are standards in

2183
01:49:50,480 --> 01:49:54,159
your zoning code that set forth what is

2184
01:49:54,159 --> 01:49:57,239
supposed to go in an

2185
01:49:57,239 --> 01:49:59,440
application that doesn't

2186
01:49:59,440 --> 01:50:02,280
necessarily validate what we what the

2187
01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:04,360
Roden reel filed as being complete but

2188
01:50:04,360 --> 01:50:06,280
there are standards for what is to be

2189
01:50:06,280 --> 01:50:08,760
included in a site plan yes that's

2190
01:50:08,760 --> 01:50:11,320
listed and it's it's in a couple

2191
01:50:11,320 --> 01:50:14,199
different sections because you would

2192
01:50:14,199 --> 01:50:16,880
have a basic

2193
01:50:16,880 --> 01:50:19,880
application you would have

2194
01:50:19,880 --> 01:50:25,159
the requirements in your section on for

2195
01:50:25,159 --> 01:50:27,199
category one site plans which all of

2196
01:50:27,199 --> 01:50:30,040
these were and then all of these were

2197
01:50:30,040 --> 01:50:32,639
critical area impacted by the critical

2198
01:50:32,639 --> 01:50:36,000
area so that they also had critical area

2199
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:39,440
plans and program uh documents

2200
01:50:39,440 --> 01:50:42,079
associated with the compliance your or

2201
01:50:42,079 --> 01:50:45,679
the town's ordinance provides those

2202
01:50:45,679 --> 01:50:49,480
required elements of a site plan yes it

2203
01:50:49,480 --> 01:50:50,880
doesn't but there's nothing in there

2204
01:50:50,880 --> 01:50:52,960
that confirms that what we filed meets

2205
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:57,189
that I'm just saying there are

2206
01:50:57,199 --> 01:50:59,599
requirements so

2207
01:50:59,599 --> 01:51:03,159
if Chris chubak made the determination

2208
01:51:03,159 --> 01:51:06,840
not to bring your site plans to the

2209
01:51:06,840 --> 01:51:08,239
Planning

2210
01:51:08,239 --> 01:51:11,870
Commission at any

2211
01:51:11,880 --> 01:51:14,719
point it feasibly could have been

2212
01:51:14,719 --> 01:51:17,679
because he did not feel like they were

2213
01:51:17,679 --> 01:51:20,079
complete enough for the Planning

2214
01:51:20,079 --> 01:51:23,639
Commission to act on them well you

2215
01:51:23,639 --> 01:51:25,560
normally if a zoning administrator felt

2216
01:51:25,560 --> 01:51:27,639
they were incomplete they would let the

2217
01:51:27,639 --> 01:51:31,040
applicant know whether they're he never

2218
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:33,119
told us that they were incomplete or

2219
01:51:33,119 --> 01:51:36,079
alluded to it or said you you're missing

2220
01:51:36,079 --> 01:51:38,400
something there was no correspondence

2221
01:51:38,400 --> 01:51:40,599
other than the one I've handed you which

2222
01:51:40,599 --> 01:51:41,679
was

2223
01:51:41,679 --> 01:51:47,000
exhibit one seven so that's the only communication

2224
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:50,159
we receive from Mr jabak so I don't I

2225
01:51:50,159 --> 01:51:53,400
don't have any basis to believe or

2226
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:55,000
there's nothing in our evidence that we

2227
01:51:55,000 --> 01:51:57,679
presented to the board that suggests Mr

2228
01:51:57,679 --> 01:52:00,000
chubak was considering those

2229
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:01,960
questions correct there's nothing in

2230
01:52:01,960 --> 01:52:04,280
your evidence

2231
01:52:04,280 --> 01:52:08,639
however this board does not have the

2232
01:52:08,639 --> 01:52:10,639
capability of

2233
01:52:10,639 --> 01:52:13,520
subpoenaing Mr

2234
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:17,880
jabak and getting his testimony on this

2235
01:52:17,880 --> 01:52:20,360
topic I understand it correct and I

2236
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:22,280
would point out that neither did we

2237
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:23,440
because there'd be a whole lot of

2238
01:52:23,440 --> 01:52:25,320
questions that I would have been able to

2239
01:52:25,320 --> 01:52:29,910
ask Mr jabc that support our

2240
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:32,880
case right

2241
01:52:32,880 --> 01:52:36,719
um I believe that a court would be well

2242
01:52:36,719 --> 01:52:40,790
suited to facilitate that

2243
01:52:40,800 --> 01:52:45,719
process so just to summarize you did not

2244
01:52:45,719 --> 01:52:48,400
challenge the moratorium legally never

2245
01:52:48,400 --> 01:52:49,880
you never challenge the moratorium

2246
01:52:49,880 --> 01:52:52,599
legally but the legality of the mor

2247
01:52:52,599 --> 01:52:56,280
atorium is a key component of your case

2248
01:52:56,280 --> 01:52:58,159
I would phrase it differently than

2249
01:52:58,159 --> 01:53:00,520
you're asking it this is a legal

2250
01:53:00,520 --> 01:53:02,719
proceeding we are challenging it in a

2251
01:53:02,719 --> 01:53:04,960
legal proceeding it's a required

2252
01:53:04,960 --> 01:53:08,679
proceeding to exhaust our administrative

2253
01:53:08,679 --> 01:53:10,280
remedies

2254
01:53:10,280 --> 01:53:12,599
so your

2255
01:53:12,599 --> 01:53:16,840
first premise was that but but if you

2256
01:53:16,840 --> 01:53:19,639
are using that term to mean we didn't go

2257
01:53:19,639 --> 01:53:23,440
to court about the moratorium first

2258
01:53:23,440 --> 01:53:25,520
that I can confirm I've already answered

2259
01:53:25,520 --> 01:53:27,880
that for

2260
01:53:27,880 --> 01:53:32,280
you are you aware of a section in the

2261
01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:33,320
board of

2262
01:53:33,320 --> 01:53:38,109
appeals uh in

2263
01:53:38,119 --> 01:53:43,189
290

2264
01:53:43,199 --> 01:53:46,750
um-

2265
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:49,320
32 I'm going to apologize I can't bring

2266
01:53:49,320 --> 01:53:51,199
you to the correct spot but I believe

2267
01:53:51,199 --> 01:53:53,960
that appeal there's a a requirement for

2268
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:57,199
an appeal to be filed within five days

2269
01:53:57,199 --> 01:54:00,280
so did you file an appeal to the board

2270
01:54:00,280 --> 01:54:01,520
of

2271
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:06,000
appeals by February 10th

2272
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:11,920
2021 no and you can't set a deadline

2273
01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:14,840
based upon the non-action or inaction

2274
01:54:14,840 --> 01:54:17,920
anything that's an inaction

2275
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:23,400
of the administrator continues and so it

2276
01:54:23,400 --> 01:54:26,719
any any requirement that you file an

2277
01:54:26,719 --> 01:54:29,639
appeal within a certain period of days

2278
01:54:29,639 --> 01:54:32,520
has to be predicated upon that action

2279
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:36,679
being determinable as to when it

2280
01:54:36,679 --> 01:54:39,560
occurred the cont it's been a continuing

2281
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,560
violation up through this date that the

2282
01:54:41,560 --> 01:54:43,280
applications filed by the rod and reel

2283
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:45,239
have not been processed by either the

2284
01:54:45,239 --> 01:54:47,360
zoning administrator or the Planning and

2285
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:50,800
Zoning commission despite the moratorium

2286
01:54:50,800 --> 01:54:55,149
having clearly expired

2287
01:54:55,159 --> 01:54:57,119
okay so was the

2288
01:54:57,119 --> 01:55:01,760
inaction that you are agreed

2289
01:55:01,760 --> 01:55:06,229
by did that occur

2290
01:55:06,239 --> 01:55:11,470
before had it occurred by February 5th

2291
01:55:11,480 --> 01:55:27,589
2021 when this letter was sent to you

2292
01:55:27,599 --> 01:55:30,520
probably not it

2293
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:33,119
would the

2294
01:55:33,119 --> 01:55:35,079
obligation

2295
01:55:35,079 --> 01:55:38,520
for the review of critical area site

2296
01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:41,119
plans is 60 days following the filing of

2297
01:55:41,119 --> 01:55:45,560
the application so it's possible that Mr

2298
01:55:45,560 --> 01:55:48,000
jabak wrote that letter saying that they

2299
01:55:48,000 --> 01:55:51,320
would pass a moratorium well it's quite

2300
01:55:51,320 --> 01:55:52,960
possible they didn't they wouldn't pass

2301
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:53,639
the

2302
01:55:53,639 --> 01:55:58,400
moratorium and so 60 days could be the

2303
01:55:58,400 --> 01:56:00,440
deadline for then processing the

2304
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:02,599
applications if the either the Planning

2305
01:56:02,599 --> 01:56:04,360
and Zoning commission had decided not to

2306
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:07,280
recommend it or the Town Council decided

2307
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:11,119
not to pass such a moratorium then the

2308
01:56:11,119 --> 01:56:12,840
rod and reel wouldn't necessarily be AG

2309
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:14,639
grieved until the deadline for

2310
01:56:14,639 --> 01:56:18,360
processing applications in my opinion um

2311
01:56:18,360 --> 01:56:20,400
just

2312
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:22,679
because the mere statement that they're

2313
01:56:22,679 --> 01:56:24,560
going to do

2314
01:56:24,560 --> 01:56:28,719
that moratorium isn't sufficient so what

2315
01:56:28,719 --> 01:56:30,560
was the

2316
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:32,639
date of

2317
01:56:32,639 --> 01:56:35,920
inaction that you are basing your

2318
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:38,840
appeals case on that was filed within

2319
01:56:38,840 --> 01:56:41,199
five days of that inaction up through

2320
01:56:41,199 --> 01:56:42,920
and including today's

2321
01:56:42,920 --> 01:56:46,840
date what was the start date start date

2322
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:49,599
the start date that been January

2323
01:56:49,599 --> 01:56:53,000
209th of 2021 when we filed the

2324
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:54,560
applications I suppose if you're looking

2325
01:56:54,560 --> 01:56:57,040
for a start

2326
01:56:57,040 --> 01:57:01,320
date but I don't know so if that's the

2327
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:03,159
case did you

2328
01:57:03,159 --> 01:57:06,629
file an

2329
01:57:06,639 --> 01:57:09,400
appeal by February

2330
01:57:09,400 --> 01:57:14,000
6 no we did not of 2021 no we did

2331
01:57:14,000 --> 01:57:28,669
not this this appeal was filed

2332
01:57:28,679 --> 01:57:30,199
on June

2333
01:57:30,199 --> 01:57:36,270
24th

2334
01:57:36,280 --> 01:57:41,520
2022 and it was filed time in a timely

2335
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:43,119
fashion

2336
01:57:43,119 --> 01:57:45,199
basically any

2337
01:57:45,199 --> 01:57:49,199
correspondence that occurred up to June

2338
01:57:49,199 --> 01:57:53,990
19th 2022

2339
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:56,520
is potentially just

2340
01:57:56,520 --> 01:57:58,440
correspondence and there was a certain

2341
01:57:58,440 --> 01:57:59,440
action

2342
01:57:59,440 --> 01:58:02,320
on by June

2343
01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:05,910
19th

2344
01:58:05,920 --> 01:58:09,079
2022 that caused you to file an

2345
01:58:09,079 --> 01:58:11,760
appeal oh are you're asking what caused

2346
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:13,360
us to file the

2347
01:58:13,360 --> 01:58:16,040
appeal the appeal is required in five

2348
01:58:16,040 --> 01:58:22,800
days by the code your your case not accepting the that it

2349
01:58:22,800 --> 01:58:25,639
requires 5 days but I can say any

2350
01:58:25,639 --> 01:58:29,040
deadline for filing an appeal or action

2351
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:31,239
where it's involving inaction continues

2352
01:58:31,239 --> 01:58:33,440
so long as the inaction continues our

2353
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:35,880
appeal involves the allegation that

2354
01:58:35,880 --> 01:58:37,159
Planning and Zoning commission and the

2355
01:58:37,159 --> 01:58:38,800
zoning administrator have failed to meet

2356
01:58:38,800 --> 01:58:41,119
their statutory obligation to process

2357
01:58:41,119 --> 01:58:42,960
the site plans they have failed up

2358
01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:44,960
through and including this date the

2359
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:47,040
reason we filed this

2360
01:58:47,040 --> 01:58:52,639
appeal was we received a

2361
01:58:52,639 --> 01:58:55,760
letter which is already in evidence from

2362
01:58:55,760 --> 01:58:58,599
Mr pounds saying that the

2363
01:58:58,599 --> 01:59:01,440
moratorium continue to exist even after

2364
01:59:01,440 --> 01:59:03,480
we thought it had

2365
01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:07,079
expired and we said enough is enough

2366
01:59:07,079 --> 01:59:11,709
we're going to take this to the board of

2367
01:59:11,719 --> 01:59:14,360
appeals so you are asking the board of

2368
01:59:14,360 --> 01:59:16,360
appeals to decide on the moratorium you

2369
01:59:16,360 --> 01:59:19,199
didn't challenge the moratorium legally

2370
01:59:19,199 --> 01:59:22,320
Court moratorium to court okay already

2371
01:59:22,320 --> 01:59:23,599
answered

2372
01:59:23,599 --> 01:59:26,360
that I've said we are using the legal

2373
01:59:26,360 --> 01:59:28,040
process that's allowed under Maryland

2374
01:59:28,040 --> 01:59:29,679
law and that includes bringing the

2375
01:59:29,679 --> 01:59:31,520
action to this board of appeals that's

2376
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:34,079
what we're doing and it's based on a

2377
01:59:34,079 --> 01:59:36,880
moratorium for what you never filed a

2378
01:59:36,880 --> 01:59:38,880
legal case against that's true but we

2379
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:41,719
don't have to file a legal case against

2380
01:59:41,719 --> 01:59:43,960
to challenge it before this

2381
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:47,800
board but you would agree that the board

2382
01:59:47,800 --> 01:59:52,669
would somehow have to find

2383
01:59:52,679 --> 01:59:55,920
that moratorium to be legally invalid

2384
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:57,920
and they are not that is not within the

2385
01:59:57,920 --> 02:00:00,000
scope of what they decide no it's

2386
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:03,679
absolutely in the scope just like just

2387
02:00:03,679 --> 02:00:05,000
like if we were challenging the

2388
02:00:05,000 --> 02:00:08,040
constitutionality of the action that is

2389
02:00:08,040 --> 02:00:09,440
something that can be brought to this

2390
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:13,239
board in fact the law is in many

2391
02:00:13,239 --> 02:00:15,040
instances it must be brought first to

2392
02:00:15,040 --> 02:00:18,119
the board po po versus Baltimore was the

2393
02:00:18,119 --> 02:00:20,079
case that started it this is very old

2394
02:00:20,079 --> 02:00:22,920
foundational law of Maryland where they

2395
02:00:22,920 --> 02:00:24,480
wanted to challenge the

2396
02:00:24,480 --> 02:00:27,800
constitutionality of a Baltimore City

2397
02:00:27,800 --> 02:00:29,360
Zoning

2398
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:32,079
action and the court said no you've got

2399
02:00:32,079 --> 02:00:35,079
to take that first to the board of

2400
02:00:35,079 --> 02:00:39,280
appeals let them decide the issue

2401
02:00:39,280 --> 02:00:44,239
first and even in that case as I relayed

2402
02:00:44,239 --> 02:00:49,000
to the board when I brought that case up

2403
02:00:49,000 --> 02:00:53,000
before the

2404
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:56,599
party seeking to declare the law

2405
02:00:56,599 --> 02:00:59,760
unconstitutional argued before the court

2406
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:01,280
that a board doesn't have the authority

2407
02:01:01,280 --> 02:01:03,040
to declare something

2408
02:01:03,040 --> 02:01:05,840
unconstitutional they rejected that said

2409
02:01:05,840 --> 02:01:08,119
no they

2410
02:01:08,119 --> 02:01:12,560
do so that specific point was brought up

2411
02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:14,599
so I don't want to interrupt this I find

2412
02:01:14,599 --> 02:01:17,639
this actually very very good question um

2413
02:01:17,639 --> 02:01:21,280
but we are at time um would you like to

2414
02:01:21,280 --> 02:01:22,440
continue this

2415
02:01:22,440 --> 02:01:23,560
where we leave off during the next

2416
02:01:23,560 --> 02:01:24,599
session or should we give you a couple

2417
02:01:24,599 --> 02:01:28,880
more minutes now I appreciate that

2418
02:01:28,880 --> 02:01:31,520
this this I appreciate the time you've

2419
02:01:31,520 --> 02:01:34,719
given me and the time you've taken I'd

2420
02:01:34,719 --> 02:01:36,800
like to turn it over to the lawyers now

2421
02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:38,560
and

2422
02:01:38,560 --> 02:01:41,800
um I do appreciate it thank you as you

2423
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:44,119
know I think

2424
02:01:44,119 --> 02:01:46,599
that this is a little bit out of scope

2425
02:01:46,599 --> 02:01:49,280
for the board of appeals and and the

2426
02:01:49,280 --> 02:01:53,270
process doesn't

2427
02:01:53,280 --> 02:01:56,599
uh lend itself to this gravity of

2428
02:01:56,599 --> 02:01:58,599
decision but I do appreciate your time I

2429
02:01:58,599 --> 02:02:01,320
appreciate what you're doing thank you very much remind the public

2430
02:02:01,320 --> 02:02:04,719
that if you if you want to um speak

2431
02:02:04,719 --> 02:02:06,480
outside of the context of what Mr Blitz

2432
02:02:06,480 --> 02:02:08,440
or Mr pounds presents you will have an

2433
02:02:08,440 --> 02:02:11,280
open microphone once they've completed

2434
02:02:11,280 --> 02:02:12,880
which case you can State your own

2435
02:02:12,880 --> 02:02:14,560
expertise even if it you know

2436
02:02:14,560 --> 02:02:18,030
tangentially related to what's been

2437
02:02:18,040 --> 02:02:20,760
provided yes we are going to resume this

2438
02:02:20,760 --> 02:02:22,400
if you have a question for Mr Blitz and

2439
02:02:22,400 --> 02:02:24,000
that will

2440
02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:30,040
be on August 19th 2024 at 6: p.m. um

2441
02:02:30,040 --> 02:02:32,560
sorry not 6 p.m apologies 6:30

2442
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:36,800
p.m. um the plan is to uh ask questions

2443
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:38,920
of of Mr Blitz as long as long as there

2444
02:02:38,920 --> 02:02:41,280
are questions available um and at which

2445
02:02:41,280 --> 02:02:43,880
point it will go over to Mr pounds for

2446
02:02:43,880 --> 02:02:46,270
his

2447
02:02:46,280 --> 02:02:50,239
presentation I said what

2448
02:02:50,239 --> 02:02:55,880
I August 9 18 6:30 p.m. yes

2449
02:02:55,880 --> 02:03:00,159
I you will be first first in line uh

2450
02:03:00,159 --> 02:03:05,199
next time okay um un is there any urgent

2451
02:03:05,199 --> 02:03:07,040
business any board members would like to

2452
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:09,000
bring up this

2453
02:03:09,000 --> 02:03:12,239
point hearing none uh at this time I

2454
02:03:12,239 --> 02:03:14,599
will entertain a motion to adjourn until

2455
02:03:14,599 --> 02:03:18,079
August 19 20124 at 6:30 pm I will make a

2456
02:03:18,079 --> 02:03:20,960
motion to adjourn have a second second

2457
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:23,360
all in favor hi right this motion is

2458
02:03:23,360 --> 02:03:45,709
adjourned thank you

2459
02:03:45,719 --> 02:03:50,159
everybody hope you guys