1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,600 uh evening this is the call to order for 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,120 the Chesapeake Beach Board of Appeals 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:08,599 October 21st 4 00:00:08,599 --> 00:00:10,799 2024 5 00:00:10,799 --> 00:00:14,440 um or I will go quickly um here we are 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:16,080 today to do some administrative business 7 00:00:16,080 --> 00:00:18,480 meeting minutes and comment receipt uh 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:19,880 at which point we will move into Mr 9 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,240 pound's presentation and then follow up 10 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:25,439 with questions for Mr pounds time allows 11 00:00:25,439 --> 00:00:27,640 uh as always we start with a roll call 12 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:29,320 for board members I'll go around please 13 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:30,480 answer your presid 14 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,800 Mr Richard Burch Mr Paul dhy present M 15 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:36,200 Amy Everett present Mr Steven sharp 16 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,039 present and Mr Jody hunar we have a 17 00:00:39,039 --> 00:00:41,879 quorum uh first item on the agenda is 18 00:00:41,879 --> 00:00:44,760 the approval of the uh meeting minutes 19 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,280 for 20233 for the August 19th sessions 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:52,399 both open and close did anybody have any 21 00:00:52,399 --> 00:00:57,120 changes and its problems 22 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,120 anything uh in that case I would 23 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,239 entertain a motion to approve the 24 00:01:01,239 --> 00:01:03,519 minutes I will make a motion to approve 25 00:01:03,519 --> 00:01:05,840 the minutes I have a second second all 26 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,600 in favor I all right the Motions are 27 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,000 approve or minutes are approved uh 28 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,720 Sharon have we received any public 29 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,119 comments to be entered into the record 30 00:01:16,119 --> 00:01:18,640 yes one from Rita 31 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,159 Hayes okay um if we can get that on the 32 00:01:21,159 --> 00:01:23,439 record and make sure uh both Mr pounds 33 00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:26,000 and Mr Blitz have a copy of those 34 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,920 comments um we've done these 35 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:29,200 announcements before so I'll go through 36 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,119 them quickly uh will be doing two hours 37 00:01:31,119 --> 00:01:34,439 tonight oh oh we have the closed session 38 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:35,960 minutes there oh I did them sorry I did 39 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:37,520 them together but we can we can do it 40 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,399 again um I thought I didn't guess not 41 00:01:40,399 --> 00:01:42,640 okay uh I'll entertain a motion to 42 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,280 approve the Clos session minutes I'll 43 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:47,600 make that motion I have a second second 44 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,119 all in favor I all right Mo meeting 45 00:01:51,119 --> 00:01:52,799 minutes are approved for the Clos 46 00:01:52,799 --> 00:01:55,360 session uh okay so two hours tonight 47 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,680 will end at 8:00 pm uh any questions or 48 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,759 comments should be directed to uh the 49 00:02:00,759 --> 00:02:03,560 board legal council here um if we get to 50 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:04,920 the point where we are going to allow 51 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,920 questions of Mr pounds I will indicate 52 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,520 to the gallery uh when it is time for 53 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,920 that um the order of like the agenda for 54 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:16,360 the next uh session or two will be uh 55 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Town staff testimony and Evans by Mr 56 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,560 pounds questioning of town presentation 57 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:22,879 by any parties of record um at which 58 00:02:22,879 --> 00:02:25,280 point we will close the meeting and then 59 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:26,760 the following meeting will take 60 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:28,760 testimony and evidence by person or 61 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,440 entities whose rights are Ed by the 62 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,480 appeal will be members of the public um 63 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,920 so there will be no public comment 64 00:02:34,920 --> 00:02:36,760 tonight at the conclusion of Mr pound's 65 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:38,720 presentation and the questioning we will 66 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,360 hold a dedicated meeting to receive 67 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,080 public comment this will be announced 68 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,280 both in this hearing and Via an email at 69 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,959 least from the town uh okay that's it 70 00:02:47,959 --> 00:02:51,040 for the announcements um we are on a 71 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,760 continuation of case 20233 Roden re 72 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,000 corporated Donovan States LLC to 73 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:57,560 consider an application from Roden 74 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,360 Incorporated Donovan States 4160 Avenue 75 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,080 chesap beach for a decision on 76 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:03,560 interpretation or alleged error to 77 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,319 article uh 6290 23 29031 A1 and A6 of 78 00:03:08,319 --> 00:03:09,680 the Chesapeake Beach zoning ordinance 79 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,480 and C309 c310 c311 of the Chesapeake 80 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:14,519 Beach Town Charter applicant requests 81 00:03:14,519 --> 00:03:16,400 the Chesapeake Beach zoning uh board of 82 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,239 appeals to quote order the zoning 83 00:03:18,239 --> 00:03:19,640 administrator and planning and zoning 84 00:03:19,640 --> 00:03:21,000 commission to immediately commence and 85 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,120 prioritize the processing and review of 86 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,560 the relevant site plan submitted by the 87 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,400 rod real Incorporated Donovan estat LLC 88 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,840 and that the zoning administrator and 89 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,280 planning and zoning Commission order to 90 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,400 apply the zoning ordinances in effect as 91 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,920 of January 29 2021 when their 92 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,799 applications were submitted and for 93 00:03:36,799 --> 00:03:38,480 other and further relief as the nature 94 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,959 of their Clause requires at this point 95 00:03:40,959 --> 00:03:43,400 we will move to Mr pounds uh take it 96 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,400 away okay uh Mr chair members of the 97 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,519 board good evening uh as you know my 98 00:03:48,519 --> 00:03:51,920 name is Todd pounds and I represent the 99 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,200 town of Chesapeake Beach in opposition 100 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,200 to this application which is in essence 101 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:00,439 designed to construct houses and would 102 00:04:00,439 --> 00:04:02,519 which has been designated in an area 103 00:04:02,519 --> 00:04:05,879 which is a flood plane uh Mr Woodburn as 104 00:04:05,879 --> 00:04:08,120 the uh applicants engineer and also Mr 105 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:09,920 Donovan fully admit that these 106 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,920 applications are in the flood plane um 107 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,120 and just to make sure the record is 108 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,720 clear flood plane is indicated in an 109 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:22,639 area that is expected to flood uh at the 110 00:04:22,639 --> 00:04:24,759 early on in these proceedings and Mr 111 00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:26,199 chair just let you know I'm sitting down 112 00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:29,120 because Mr Blitz I think is issue so I 113 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,800 told him I wouldn't stand up there but 114 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,240 that's it but early on in these 115 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:35,680 proceedings uh the chair made a comment 116 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,479 we generally do not handle this type of 117 00:04:37,479 --> 00:04:39,360 matter and I thought that it's very 118 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,039 telling for these type of proceedings 119 00:04:41,039 --> 00:04:43,560 especially in this case which has gone 120 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,479 been going on for approximately 35 hours 121 00:04:46,479 --> 00:04:48,240 uh so throughout this time at the 122 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,960 beginning of this meeting as happened 123 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,759 tonight the chair stated the standard of 124 00:04:52,759 --> 00:04:55,800 review of the Court board of appeals and 125 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,600 just for the record I'm going to maybe 126 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,800 paraphrase a little bit but obviously 127 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,199 chair's uh introduction is going to be 128 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:05,440 more telling and more um applicable this 129 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,000 standard is indicated is basically that 130 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:08,960 the board of appeals may pass an order 131 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,600 requiring the zoning administrator to 132 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,039 accept the applications which are the 133 00:05:13,039 --> 00:05:15,360 subject of these proceedings and also 134 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,560 have these applications reviewed by the 135 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,319 Planning Commission uh on an expedited 136 00:05:20,319 --> 00:05:22,199 basis under the law prior to the 137 00:05:22,199 --> 00:05:24,479 adoption of the comprehensive plan and I 138 00:05:24,479 --> 00:05:25,919 appreciate I may have paraphrased it a 139 00:05:25,919 --> 00:05:27,600 little bit but but I got pretty close 140 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,240 enough and there's been many hours of of 141 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,680 what I'll call testimony to arrive at 142 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:36,680 the standard now we started out and 143 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,600 everybody I think can agree that the uh 144 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,400 Court would have good 100% jurisdiction 145 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:46,039 to hear this type of case and we started 146 00:05:46,039 --> 00:05:49,000 out in court that the applicant wanted 147 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,240 the board of appeals we are here because 148 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:52,840 they're the ones that wanted the board 149 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,160 of appeals as opposed to being in court 150 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:58,960 uh the question is why why was the board 151 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:00,560 of appeals chosen over a jurisdiction 152 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,600 which everybody fully knew was 153 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,599 applicable I'll leave that for for later on but what's important is I never 154 00:06:08,599 --> 00:06:10,840 agreed to that with the court the court 155 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,199 case is still pending because I never 156 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:16,240 agreed to any of this and that will be 157 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,280 you know viewed for for subsequent 158 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,800 actions now you've been hearing quite a 159 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:25,800 bit over all of these hours about I had 160 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:29,880 an application that was to be filed uh 161 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,800 and that the application was here and 162 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,680 ready and it was not accepted I think 163 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,599 it's important and I want to make sure 164 00:06:37,599 --> 00:06:39,680 that indeed for the record is clear what 165 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:43,520 it means to have an application because 166 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,039 at some point in time what does it mean 167 00:06:45,039 --> 00:06:48,680 to have property rights associated with 168 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:50,599 that application or because is it just 169 00:06:50,599 --> 00:06:52,759 an application because without the 170 00:06:52,759 --> 00:06:54,360 property rights associated with the 171 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,400 application it becomes less and less as 172 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,080 an important as Mr Blitz has said many times that he has the application 173 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,120 so what does it mean to actually have 174 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,840 property rights with regard to the 175 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,599 application and that is under what is 176 00:07:10,599 --> 00:07:13,160 known as the law of vesting in other 177 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,639 words at what point does this 178 00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:17,879 application become vested so the 179 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:20,160 developer has his property rights that 180 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,360 cannot be changed well prior to 1972 and 181 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,240 I've got these cases here which I'll 182 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:27,759 submit them you know for the record if 183 00:07:27,759 --> 00:07:31,199 you like at the end but prior to 1972 184 00:07:31,199 --> 00:07:33,639 the standard was that the developer must 185 00:07:33,639 --> 00:07:35,520 be issued a 186 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,400 permit not just an application that may 187 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,759 that has has not been accepted but 188 00:07:40,759 --> 00:07:44,159 actually have a permit which indeed has 189 00:07:44,159 --> 00:07:46,840 been reviewed and has been accepted and 190 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,000 a permit being issued that's what it was 191 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,000 foror in 192 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:54,240 1972 in 1972 in the court of Rockville 193 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,440 Fuel and feed company versus gaitherburg 194 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,000 the court changed that said no for 195 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,360 vesting rights you have to have not only 196 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,879 a permit but you also have to have begun 197 00:08:05,879 --> 00:08:08,159 construction so then another words so 198 00:08:08,159 --> 00:08:09,800 obviously these applications are 199 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,199 absolutely nowhere near this standard 200 00:08:12,199 --> 00:08:15,360 that is set forth by the court uh in 201 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,159 1972 uh with regard to what the law was 202 00:08:18,159 --> 00:08:22,520 at that time of a permit and beginning 203 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:23,440 of 204 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,919 construction that that opinion was 205 00:08:25,919 --> 00:08:29,759 further supp uh supported in 1975 206 00:08:29,759 --> 00:08:31,879 in which the case of uh County Council 207 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:33,599 of Montgomery County versus District 208 00:08:33,599 --> 00:08:36,760 land Corporation in which the owner uh 209 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:40,880 and a developer got his permits okay and 210 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:43,719 then began expending uh fees for 211 00:08:43,719 --> 00:08:45,760 engineering fees okay and development 212 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,399 fees and development applications and he 213 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:50,760 spent over a million dollars of his own 214 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,800 money for these development uh studies 215 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,240 and plans for the development of the 216 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,720 property and all of a sudden the local 217 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,480 jurisdiction Chang The Zone on him so he 218 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,839 said no no no I've had to have some type 219 00:09:04,839 --> 00:09:06,440 of right because I've just expended a 220 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,279 million dollars and the court said no 221 00:09:09,279 --> 00:09:11,959 we've the standard is and we've we we've 222 00:09:11,959 --> 00:09:14,360 elicited it vested rights means the 223 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,160 building permit and began 224 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,920 construction then uh in 1996 in the town 225 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,990 of Sykesville versus West Shore 226 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,839 communication that developers said okay 227 00:09:30,839 --> 00:09:32,680 I have read the law I understand what 228 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,480 the law is and he had a large piece of 229 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,680 property and then in the back of the 230 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,320 property in the woods he cleared out an 231 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,600 acre of land and he began construction 232 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,800 so all of a sudden he had his permits 233 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,680 and he uh began Construction in a rear 234 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:49,800 area of the area and the local 235 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,800 municipality changed the Zone he said no 236 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:58,760 uh I have complied with the law and I've been with the law and because it 237 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:00,560 was in the woods the the court then 238 00:10:00,560 --> 00:10:03,720 changed the rule as to what it is now to 239 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,120 not only do you have to have the permit 240 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:07,440 not only have you have to begin 241 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,440 construction but that construction has 242 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,279 to be visible to the public and again 243 00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:13,880 I'm happy to give you those cases for 244 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,240 you to review at your leisure but now 245 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:20,079 that is the standard permit construction 246 00:10:20,079 --> 00:10:22,560 and visible to the public that's the 247 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:24,399 standard in which somebody has an actual 248 00:10:24,399 --> 00:10:26,440 property rights you know with regard to 249 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,480 Applications this this testimony of well 250 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,720 have an application has no absolute 251 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,360 applicability to actually having 252 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,440 property rights to actually having a 253 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,040 right to uh to that property uh or to 254 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,399 those applications uh as it's being 255 00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:45,920 elicited and just for fun I've also um 256 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:48,680 uh included a case of taba County versus 257 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,680 miles point which HS which is held that 258 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:53,480 the board of appeals cannot overturn 259 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:57,839 decisions of a Town Council but I'll I'll give that to you just for just 260 00:10:57,839 --> 00:11:02,079 for your uh review also so basically 261 00:11:02,079 --> 00:11:04,240 what Mr P what case was 262 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,519 that and I do have a copy for you Mr 263 00:11:06,519 --> 00:11:07,800 justment it's 264 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,519 um uh talba County versus miles Point 265 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:14,160 415 Maryland 266 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:19,560 372 uh Atlantic 3D 2 Atlantic 3D uh 267 00:11:19,560 --> 00:11:25,790 344 268 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,880 2010 so basically uh the ult ultimately 269 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,639 the board of appeals is looking to issue 270 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:34,800 an order that will say to the zoning in 271 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,839 administrator here take these plans 272 00:11:38,839 --> 00:11:41,040 that's the uh uh now I'm going to for 273 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,639 the purposes of this presentation I'm 274 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:45,440 going to ignore the second part of the 275 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,360 standard which you've been reviewing of 276 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:48,720 that it will go to the Planning 277 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,600 Commission for their review and that in 278 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:52,839 essence the Planning Commission will 279 00:11:52,839 --> 00:11:56,040 have an expedited hearing uh under some 280 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,000 other law right now I'm going to ignore 281 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,959 that BAS basically the order in which 282 00:12:00,959 --> 00:12:03,800 you're being asked to apply is that to 283 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,720 the zoning administrator here take this 284 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,200 well just is to let you know the zoning 285 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,760 administrator is going to say no I'm not 286 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,440 going to take that because the board of 287 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,480 appeals does not have the authority to 288 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:19,639 tell me to do anything the board of 289 00:12:19,639 --> 00:12:21,360 appeals doesn't have the jurisdiction to 290 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,800 tell another town official to do 291 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,040 anything and especially the uh the town 292 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,480 law is what the town law is and if the 293 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,079 board of appeals wants to try to change 294 00:12:31,079 --> 00:12:33,279 the town law with regard to these 295 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:36,320 applications they can try but the Dison 296 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,600 administrator is not going to follow 297 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,959 whatever supposed law that the board of 298 00:12:40,959 --> 00:12:43,199 appeals thinks that they may or may not 299 00:12:43,199 --> 00:12:45,639 have as well as the instruction of the 300 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:48,680 Town Council that she is not going to 301 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:50,519 the to zoning administrator is not going 302 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,760 to accept that order and accept these 303 00:12:53,760 --> 00:13:00,470 plans that's going to be interesting 304 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,519 yeah apparently is testifying about what 305 00:13:04,519 --> 00:13:06,360 the zoning administr a decision the 306 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,000 zoning administrators had made about 307 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:11,040 whether they would if the 308 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,160 board if the board issued the order that 309 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,680 we requested that they would reject 310 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:19,079 it that would need 311 00:13:19,079 --> 00:13:21,480 testimony I can tell you I only me 312 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,360 change that to make to to please you um 313 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,079 I am telling you what I I think is going 314 00:13:27,079 --> 00:13:28,680 to be presumed as to what's going to 315 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:31,079 happen so obviously I don't have a 316 00:13:31,079 --> 00:13:33,399 crystal ball but I have an idea as to 317 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:36,560 what's going to happen so that's what my 318 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:38,760 understanding as the probability is 319 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,839 going to happen if it satisfies your 320 00:13:40,839 --> 00:13:44,199 concerns Mr Blitz oh please continue um 321 00:13:44,199 --> 00:13:46,800 so here we are so it's uh basically it's 322 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,839 taken 35 hours to in essence for the 323 00:13:49,839 --> 00:13:52,000 board to come back and in essence pass 324 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,320 an order for the zon administrator to 325 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:58,639 say here um and so we will see what 326 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:01,399 happens with regard to that now earlier 327 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:04,680 on the proceeding uh a number of letters 328 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:07,839 were submitted by Town officials uh and 329 00:14:07,839 --> 00:14:11,160 those came from the Town Council from 330 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:12,839 the zoning administrator and also the 331 00:14:12,839 --> 00:14:15,880 Planning Commission and what happened 332 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:17,920 was there was a lot of you know 333 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,360 consternation going on why is pounds 334 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,480 doing this why is pounds doing that why 335 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:24,759 is he submitted these ex that's an 336 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:27,079 expart communication which it isn't but 337 00:14:27,079 --> 00:14:29,199 you know at least accuse me of the right 338 00:14:29,199 --> 00:14:31,600 thing okay that came out that but 339 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:33,680 everybody was informed now I'm going to 340 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,279 tell you the reason that that was done 341 00:14:36,279 --> 00:14:38,720 because I wanted to make sure that this 342 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,320 board was completely aware early in 343 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:43,360 these proceedings many many months ago 344 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,839 many many meetings ago that in desence 345 00:14:45,839 --> 00:14:48,199 you were informed specifically by the 346 00:14:48,199 --> 00:14:51,040 town official that the Town Council the 347 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,440 zoning administrator and also the 348 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Planning Commission that you don't have 349 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,360 the authority to do is being asked so 350 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:57,600 we're not going to get I could have 351 00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,959 easily waited till tonight to to 352 00:14:59,959 --> 00:15:02,800 introduce all of those records but I 353 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,120 wanted to make sure that you were given 354 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,160 all of that notice way back when you can 355 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,279 yell at me all you want to don't care 356 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:11,160 because I wanted to make sure that the 357 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:14,000 record was clear that you were informed 358 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:16,519 many many months ago many many meetings 359 00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:20,279 ago as to what the law was and uh as 360 00:15:20,279 --> 00:15:22,240 what the others individual that that 361 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,480 board of appeals does not have this 362 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,000 Authority 363 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,720 now so it is Undisputed 364 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,480 that the Town Council has issued 365 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,480 ordinances and resolutions to protect a 366 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,920 particular issue um in a way that the 367 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,000 board of appeals believes that they have 368 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,920 the power to over overrule the Town 369 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,319 Council and those 370 00:15:45,319 --> 00:15:48,120 decisions uh and is is apparent that the 371 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,519 board of appeals believes that it has 372 00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:52,680 the authority to overrule the Town 373 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,639 Council uh was indicated in the record 374 00:15:55,639 --> 00:15:57,639 and from the town officials that is 375 00:15:57,639 --> 00:16:01,440 untrue uh also if indeed the board of 376 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:04,680 appeals believes that it has the ability 377 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,720 to overturn various laws to for this 378 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,519 application to have uh houses being 379 00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:12,800 built in a flood plane and again the 380 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,199 flood plane isn't is based upon the 381 00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:18,360 testimony of the applicant's own expert 382 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,440 then also it is important for the board 383 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,360 of appeals to change other laws and and 384 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,360 in essence to vetos other laws which 385 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:26,759 have been passed by Council which are 386 00:16:26,759 --> 00:16:28,920 going to affect this application in 387 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,360 including the coastal resiliency plan 388 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,959 and also the critical areas plan which 389 00:16:33,959 --> 00:16:35,720 also must be changed because those will 390 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,880 also have an adverse effect on this 391 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,639 application so here we are in a 392 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,279 situation in which it is presumed and 393 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:49,720 believed that the order from the uh uh 394 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,639 board of appeals to the zoning 395 00:16:51,639 --> 00:16:54,759 administrator uh is going to order that 396 00:16:54,759 --> 00:16:56,480 person to do a particular thing and that 397 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,279 person doesn't uh is not going to do it 398 00:16:59,279 --> 00:17:01,880 as what is believed is going to happen 399 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,000 now what um because if you simply order 400 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,959 them to say here and they say no so we 401 00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:10,559 have a situation and appears one of the 402 00:17:10,559 --> 00:17:12,439 primary problems with regard to this 403 00:17:12,439 --> 00:17:14,720 proceedings is that it appears that 404 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:17,120 there's only a few people that believes 405 00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:19,760 the board of appeals uh actually has 406 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,760 this Authority um obviously Mr Blitz 407 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,839 believes that you do but but the rest of 408 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,120 the board is sitting up on the dis we 409 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:29,120 don't know and I guess we'll make that 410 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:31,240 determination with regard to uh the 411 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,280 issue and the order that's ultimately 412 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:41,669 issued excuse 413 00:17:41,679 --> 00:17:45,559 me so I think so all obviously also as 414 00:17:45,559 --> 00:17:48,600 indicated in an earlier letter you know 415 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,000 there's been a lot of discussion with 416 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,120 regard to a moratorium and what what 417 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:54,679 should be appropriately you know uh done 418 00:17:54,679 --> 00:17:56,520 uh what's interesting and that this is 419 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,280 going to be a complete side note you 420 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,870 know 421 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,080 this is completely offside note but you 422 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,200 know Mr susman and I were at a lunch the 423 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,480 other day and the iron is at the chief 424 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,880 judge or the justice that was there 425 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,120 actually began discussions about 426 00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:15,000 resolutions and ordinances and and their 427 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,720 applicability and I started to call her 428 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,159 as a witness which would have been fun 429 00:18:18,159 --> 00:18:21,600 but um uh but what we are doing here is 430 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,840 certainly so with regard to where we 431 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,400 are and and as part of my present ation 432 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,720 I'm finding it hard to believe that 433 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,640 we've been here for 35 hours and spent 434 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,640 many many thousands of dollars in town 435 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,320 resources not to in essence have some 436 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,640 type of order being issued um uh indeed 437 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,880 that could have been stopped earlier on 438 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,320 but it was not one of the things that Mr 439 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,480 blit Mr Blitz has been saying many many 440 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,159 times is for the board to issue the 441 00:18:55,159 --> 00:18:59,640 permit issue it I mean I've said it many times I mean if you think you have 442 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,400 that authority to do it feel free to do 443 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,120 that okay and just to let you know and I 444 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:07,000 want to make sure you understand with my 445 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,120 old uh hat as a zoning lawyer when you 446 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,760 issue a permit it means become you 447 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:13,799 become liable you're the one that 448 00:19:13,799 --> 00:19:15,600 becomes liable if you issue and you sign 449 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,919 off on it you become liable for that 450 00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:19,880 application so and obviously the since 451 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,919 the board of appeals is not an entity 452 00:19:22,919 --> 00:19:25,120 sign off on yourselves and these houses 453 00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,880 that are in a flood plane that in 454 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,000 doesn't get flooded or people that are 455 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:30,960 harmed is they're going to go after the 456 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,480 people that in essence sign that 457 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,679 permit nothing can stop you from doing 458 00:19:36,679 --> 00:19:39,600 it okay the town's not doing that okay 459 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,720 but indeed if Mr Blitz has told you many 460 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,360 times throughout the be's proceedings 461 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:46,120 you have the authority and issue the 462 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,320 permit do it I mean you know sign off on 463 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,000 yourself and please feel free to do it 464 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,799 yourself so so now the questions have 465 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:59,720 reson as to whether uh the board Bo's 466 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,000 actions are in essence to overrule a 467 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,240 particular law or actions of the Town 468 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,000 Council or the perceived perceived 469 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,440 ability or the power to overrule the 470 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:16,520 town in the way it acts or whether 471 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,159 indeed this is a 472 00:20:18,159 --> 00:20:21,240 misrepresentation as to the public 473 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,240 that's what scares me okay because if 474 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,039 indeed that there there has been 475 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:31,799 an idea and representations by this 476 00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:34,799 board that you have the authority to 477 00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:36,960 overturn these actions by Council and 478 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,280 the council's actions are law okay that 479 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:43,760 is done so now if you indeed have uh can 480 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,720 make this representation through 481 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,240 whatever mechanism in which we've been 482 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,440 sitting here for a long time uh and 483 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,600 we're going to be talking about the 484 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,280 powers in which you've been told you 485 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,520 have um indeed if you sit there and say 486 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,720 well we have this power to do this the 487 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,120 question comes into is that a 488 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:06,070 misrepresentation to the public 489 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,400 now that's what that's and and so why I 490 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,240 care you know and I'll be C candid I 491 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,360 really don't care what happens to the 492 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,200 board uh I care what happens to the 493 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,559 public because as I've said many many 494 00:21:19,559 --> 00:21:22,559 times I have been charged by the Town 495 00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:25,919 Council you protect the public and uh 496 00:21:25,919 --> 00:21:31,279 and so that's what I ful intend to 497 00:21:31,279 --> 00:21:36,039 do now um 498 00:21:36,039 --> 00:21:39,039 uh now and and again to let to let you 499 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:41,279 know as you know and as I've speeded I'm 500 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:46,400 the town attorney for uh the um uh Town 501 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Council if indeed somebody came to that 502 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,080 dis during a town council meeting and 503 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:55,679 said that I think you have powers that 504 00:21:55,679 --> 00:21:59,120 the Town Council does not have 505 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,320 I'd have stopped him like that and said 506 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,520 no the Town Council does not have 507 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,080 authority to do that the mayor would 508 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,480 have stopped them like that and said no 509 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,080 the Town Council does not have the 510 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,000 authority to do that the council would 511 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,799 have said no the council does not have 512 00:22:14,799 --> 00:22:18,760 authority but the board of appeals chose 513 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,919 not to do that with regard to all uh 514 00:22:21,919 --> 00:22:23,720 going through this entire proceeding so 515 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,240 let's go over exactly all the powers 516 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:28,720 that you've been informed and I've been 517 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,080 keeping track uh which has been sort of 518 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,440 fun for me too so basically uh the board 519 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,679 of appeals include including that you 520 00:22:36,679 --> 00:22:41,760 can order individuals to engage in acts 521 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,320 so it's interesting because you know 522 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,400 when you're dealing with variances or 523 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,320 you're dealing with property that's one 524 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,640 thing but now when you're being ordered 525 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,960 individuals to actually engage and tell 526 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,919 them an individual what you can do that 527 00:22:56,919 --> 00:22:59,600 is something that even the courts are 528 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,440 very limited because it's very specific 529 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,200 as to what they can do but the courts 530 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,279 have that ability but you've been 531 00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:07,840 informed that indeed you can order 532 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:12,200 individuals to engage in Acts by telling 533 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,000 the zoning zoning administrator you will 534 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,559 do something now also you've been told 535 00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,960 that you have the power to order Town 536 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,640 officials to engage in Acts by by saying 537 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:26,320 that the zoning administrator and the 538 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,320 Planning Commission will in will do a 539 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,360 particular act as well as you will 540 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,240 overturn uh uh or laws that have been 541 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,320 passed by the County Council again that 542 00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,320 is a very specific law and that is 543 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,480 something that you simply do not D do 544 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,799 next is power over administrative 545 00:23:46,799 --> 00:23:49,480 agencies that in essence you're going to 546 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,120 issue an order to tell the Planning 547 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,799 Commission what they can and can't do 548 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:57,039 that they will in essence hear a case on 549 00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:00,240 an expedited basis at as well as the law 550 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,360 that they will follow and in essence 551 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,039 that you will tell the administrative 552 00:24:06,039 --> 00:24:10,919 agencies how to hear cases next is power 553 00:24:10,919 --> 00:24:12,080 the board of appeals to tell the 554 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,360 administration how to rule on cases well 555 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:16,640 there's no sense sending it there if you 556 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,559 don't tell them how to rule because 557 00:24:18,559 --> 00:24:21,480 otherwise what's the point of of of Ying 558 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,760 so it's presumed that this you've told 559 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,399 them how to rule on that case and then 560 00:24:27,399 --> 00:24:29,000 powers to tell the administrative 561 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,000 agencies that they will hear the cases 562 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,480 on an expedited basis uh in essence you 563 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,399 will tell them when that they will hear 564 00:24:36,399 --> 00:24:38,480 the case not only hearing the case but 565 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,559 also doing it powers to require them to 566 00:24:41,559 --> 00:24:44,360 follow a particular law that is not the 567 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,480 current law so in essence they instead 568 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,000 of them advising that in essence they're 569 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,559 going to follow the law that they think 570 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:54,720 is appropriate no you're being told 571 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,399 throughout this that indeed they you 572 00:24:57,399 --> 00:25:00,520 will we're going to order them to follow 573 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:04,000 another current law next is the power 574 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,760 over revenue and Taxation Authority 575 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,840 which is interesting 576 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,279 because the this this document here that 577 00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:16,440 was introduced by Mr Hayes and also I've 578 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,159 got a document here in which uh as I 579 00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:23,480 thought was introduced earlier uh by Mr 580 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:28,559 sus by Mr um uh blitz so basically as 581 00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:32,200 indicated by uh Miss Hayes and also that 582 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:34,720 in essent there's a dispute with regard 583 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,760 to fees and connection fees with regard 584 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,080 to the usages of water and and US of the 585 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,799 sewer so Miss Hayes in which you've 586 00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:45,279 already introduced that into the record 587 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:50,600 now and I'm going to be introducing uh you know in this was a letter from Mr 588 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,760 Blitz that in essence discusses this 589 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,840 water and connection fees now why is 590 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,000 that important because in essence 591 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,039 this is a public document which has been 592 00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:04,880 uh submitted before the uh uh Town 593 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,600 Council my clients reserve the right uh 594 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,200 reserves the right to appeal first to 595 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,080 the board of appeals so it's interesting 596 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,600 in that uh in essence now the board of 597 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,360 appeals has new rights uh with regard to 598 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:25,120 connections and the fees associated with 599 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,799 those connections uh in which I don't 600 00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:30,039 know if you even knew that you were 601 00:26:30,039 --> 00:26:32,000 being told but it's being represented 602 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:34,720 because it is now in the town record 603 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,279 that somehow the board of appeals 604 00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:39,600 according to Mr Blitz has that ability 605 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,640 to review these connections with deal 606 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,520 with fees and also you've introduced the 607 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,679 letter from Miss Hayes which in essence 608 00:26:47,679 --> 00:26:56,950 uh also has to do with 609 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,720 fees I did did not make the 610 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,600 argument to anyone that the board of 611 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,360 appeals had the authority to review edu 612 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:11,600 counts you're having a letter described 613 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,600 to you that was submitted as an expar 614 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,200 communication and has not yet been 615 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,720 entered into the record it should be 616 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,919 that that step should go first before we 617 00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:23,279 discuss what I say about it or my 618 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:25,720 opinions that's why I'm 619 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,880 objecting Mr pound is free to make all 620 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,640 the arguments he wants obviously about 621 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:34,120 that letter I'll have a rejoiner my 622 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:35,760 point is he's making a bunch of 623 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,440 arguments about something that I said 624 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,480 that hasn't been submitted to you yet in 625 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,080 the record would you like to enter that 626 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,070 letter 627 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:49,000 sure and and I was going to introduce it 628 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,600 anyway but uh again this dealt with just 629 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,399 so the record is clear uh right now the 630 00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:56,360 only thing I was talking about is these 631 00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,519 additional powers that apparently you're 632 00:27:58,519 --> 00:28:01,000 being told that you have which is a 633 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,679 question that you don't 634 00:28:03,679 --> 00:28:11,509 so you just have one copy for the 635 00:28:11,519 --> 00:28:13,679 board oh I'm I thought this was the 636 00:28:13,679 --> 00:28:16,000 additional thing the letter from Blitz 637 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,039 you said you were submitting that's 638 00:28:18,039 --> 00:28:35,310 something different 639 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,840 at this point I'm going to object to the 640 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,080 introduction of this as an exhibit well 641 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,679 it's a public record I mean you know you 642 00:28:40,679 --> 00:28:42,399 can like it or not but it's the the town 643 00:28:42,399 --> 00:28:46,200 records I could be heed on heard on the 644 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,279 objection Mr pounds is trying to 645 00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:50,559 introduce a letter about an issue that 646 00:28:50,559 --> 00:28:53,480 has absolutely nothing to do with the 647 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,200 board of appeals case that you're 648 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,399 hearing it is a separate zoning 649 00:28:58,399 --> 00:29:00,799 violation for different property rotten 650 00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:04,200 re property and a and a contest about 651 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,960 the edus this is completely irrelevant 652 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,760 to this case and should not be 653 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,360 considered it was objectionable when it 654 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,360 was submitted as an next parte it's 655 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,480 objectionable now it's simply not 656 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,039 relevant to any aspect of this case 657 00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:22,600 doesn't touch the properties doesn't 658 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,799 impact the 659 00:29:23,799 --> 00:29:25,760 properties 660 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:32,549 and Mr pounds is making 661 00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:33,919 well I I'll leave it there for the 662 00:29:33,919 --> 00:29:36,240 objection as to the exhibit if if if 663 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:37,640 you're going to admit the exhibit then 664 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,399 I've got other arguments but my point is 665 00:29:41,399 --> 00:29:43,799 this is bringing in something that is 666 00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:46,320 completely irrelevant to this case i' 667 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,840 like to ask Mr susman to review this 668 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:50,320 well I I can tell you you know if it 669 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,000 makes it easier Mr susman I can tell you 670 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,399 what the only thing I care about is my 671 00:29:54,399 --> 00:29:56,320 comment that poers over revenue and 672 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,679 Taxation which indeed Mr assman put in 673 00:29:58,679 --> 00:30:01,679 his letter Mr Blitz put in his letter so 674 00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:02,960 whether you want to introduce the letter 675 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,440 or not I really don't care okay but but 676 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,679 what what important to me is that's what 677 00:30:07,679 --> 00:30:09,799 was said it's in the town records and to 678 00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:11,039 make sure that indeed the board is 679 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:13,399 informed that the board is being the 680 00:30:13,399 --> 00:30:15,880 board is being represented that indeed 681 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,600 you have that power also so except that 682 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,440 it doesn't say that let me explain the 683 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,640 context just so you 684 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,799 understand this rod and reel for the rod 685 00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:29,039 and reel development Pro property 686 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:31,799 received a notice of violation for two 687 00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:33,679 thing for a series of things some of 688 00:30:33,679 --> 00:30:36,519 which were zoning and some of which were 689 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:39,320 for a dispute about 690 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,480 edus I responded and in this 691 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,519 case I was responding about 692 00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:52,240 um the fact that I'm providing the 693 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,000 evidence against the edus and I'm saying 694 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,360 with respect to any violation of a 695 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,159 zoning ordinance I'm reserving the right 696 00:31:01,159 --> 00:31:03,039 to appeal to the board because that's 697 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:05,360 literally your the power you have is if 698 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:07,639 there's a zoning violation somebody can 699 00:31:07,639 --> 00:31:09,120 come and appeal this to the board of 700 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,559 appeals all I was doing was saying that 701 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:13,960 but it has nothing to do with this case 702 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,480 it's merely saying you brought two a 703 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:18,240 series of things some of which are 704 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,000 zoning 705 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,200 violations in the in the notice of 706 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,919 violation we're merely preserving our 707 00:31:24,919 --> 00:31:27,440 right to rather than send this letter 708 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,000 also take the case to the board of 709 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,039 appeals should we need to my point is 710 00:31:32,039 --> 00:31:34,000 this is about a different property from 711 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,559 the properties we're dealing with and 712 00:31:35,559 --> 00:31:37,360 has nothing to do with the case and has 713 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,480 really almost nothing to do with the 714 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,559 board of appeals power literally all I'm 715 00:31:40,559 --> 00:31:43,000 doing is saying we reserve our right to 716 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,519 go to the board of appeals if if we have 717 00:31:46,519 --> 00:32:06,669 to in this other case 718 00:32:06,679 --> 00:32:07,919 we're going to allow this into the 719 00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:12,600 record um as stated and not as a power 720 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,519 of forward as what's been represented 721 00:32:14,519 --> 00:32:16,840 here please continue Mr poun okay so 722 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,279 next the power which has been uh 723 00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:21,600 discussed is the power to determine 724 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,120 taking of property issues and what's 725 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:26,639 interesting we had taking of property 726 00:32:26,639 --> 00:32:28,639 issues uh which is interesting we had 727 00:32:28,639 --> 00:32:32,039 almost a full hearing to discuss uh 728 00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:35,559 whether indeed this is was a taking and 729 00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:37,639 I think it was interesting in that uh a 730 00:32:37,639 --> 00:32:39,960 council for the applicant came but 731 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,080 refused to answer questions uh you know 732 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,639 with regard to any of that which is uh 733 00:32:45,639 --> 00:32:48,480 interesting too now Mr susman and Mr 734 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,039 Blitz fully know know what the term 735 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,760 taking means and taking is a very unique 736 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,360 term of Art in the law it means that in 737 00:32:57,360 --> 00:32:58,760 essence 738 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,799 um uh that that nearly all the property 739 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:06,279 rights and ability have been taken from 740 00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:08,600 the owner which is interesting because 741 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,600 now we're not dealing with his ability 742 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,039 to do various things because in essence 743 00:33:13,039 --> 00:33:15,760 it's been admitted and also been 744 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,480 determined that we're talking about 745 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,080 property which is in the flood plane uh 746 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,320 so any limitations on its property would 747 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,519 be more uh as a result of environmental 748 00:33:25,519 --> 00:33:28,519 or that as opposed to any take 749 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:31,200 that inessence was subject to any 750 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,080 resoning of his property or actions by 751 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,639 Council as indicated by the cases which 752 00:33:36,639 --> 00:33:40,399 I said earlier we are a long way from as 753 00:33:40,399 --> 00:33:43,159 the law currently exists permits being 754 00:33:43,159 --> 00:33:46,279 issued construction beginning and 755 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:48,440 construction that is in essence also VI 756 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,639 visible to the public so there uh that 757 00:33:52,639 --> 00:33:56,320 application generally is not uh at all 758 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,240 applicable 759 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,799 next is um General powers and authority 760 00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:02,360 to overturn the decisions of Town 761 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,480 Council so basically in these 762 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,120 applications that that in essence I'm 763 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,800 going to presume that you're going to 764 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,800 issue an order because we've been here 765 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,440 the way we have that in essence in order 766 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,879 to move forward the the this board's 767 00:34:15,879 --> 00:34:18,000 also going to have to make sure that 768 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,280 indeed overturns other laws which have 769 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,240 been uh put forward by the Town Council 770 00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,599 including Coastal resiliency and uh laws 771 00:34:27,599 --> 00:34:29,440 with with regard to critical area 772 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:31,800 because with regard that overturning 773 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:35,079 those laws in essence uh this your your 774 00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,639 order you know doesn't have much effect 775 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,960 either which was interesting is the per 776 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,119 Mr Blitz issue with regard to 777 00:34:42,119 --> 00:34:44,159 constitutionality that one I put a 778 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,280 little smiley face by because in essence 779 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,000 uh the board of appeals in essence is 780 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,839 being told to review Supreme Court cases 781 00:34:51,839 --> 00:34:54,040 or cases from the supr Supreme Court of 782 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,160 Maryland and in essence to make that 783 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,240 determination 784 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,400 as to what is appropriate most Circuit 785 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,640 Court judges don't do that uh most 786 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,040 Circuit Court judges will not overturn 787 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,760 or impose their opinions upon you 788 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,640 especially upon you know any case upon 789 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,280 if indeed the uh uh Court special 790 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,040 Supreme Court or Supreme Court of 791 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,079 Maryland makes those issues of The 792 00:35:18,079 --> 00:35:21,480 confid Confident constitutionality but 793 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,280 uh you were being instructed and it was 794 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:28,520 earlier on uh that indeed the board of appeals needs to also 795 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,760 address those uh issues of 796 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,320 constitutionality then in a recent 797 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,880 hearing uh that in essence that the 798 00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,520 board of appeals is exhausting the 799 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,320 administrative remedies in order to 800 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:45,520 eventually get to court um in essence 801 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,760 you know and that's the law is is that 802 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,480 in essence when you have uh remedies 803 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,040 that in essence you are required to go 804 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,920 through an administrative counsel before 805 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,720 administrative counsil or administrative 806 00:35:55,720 --> 00:35:58,280 agency before you can go to court but we 807 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,599 started in court I mean this this isn't 808 00:36:00,599 --> 00:36:01,960 something that you know you need to go 809 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,760 through an administrative exhausting 810 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,599 administrative agency and I put two 811 00:36:05,599 --> 00:36:08,240 smiley faces by that one because you're 812 00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:09,720 saying that we need to go through this 813 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:11,480 process to get to court when in essence 814 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,960 we started in court to begin with so why 815 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,280 are you being informed that indeed you 816 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,920 have needed to do that in the first 817 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:25,640 place so uh again uh and one and again 818 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:27,920 I'm going to reiterate it one of the 819 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:29,520 interesting things that has been said a 820 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,480 number of times is that this board 821 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,560 should go ahead and actually issue the 822 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:38,960 permits well again I encourage it uh 823 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,920 indeed sign off on it so you know and 824 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,839 actually allow the applicant to begin 825 00:36:43,839 --> 00:36:46,440 these construction of these houses in 826 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,800 the flood plane but in essence as I 827 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,240 stated when you sign off on an 828 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:53,079 application if somebody gets hurt or 829 00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:55,480 some property gets damaged the person 830 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,960 who signs it is the one who becomes Li 831 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,720 so feel free uh that that that will be a 832 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:02,440 decision for the 833 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,480 board now earlier 834 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,480 on uh in this process we had a situation 835 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,880 in which Mr Blitz was sworn 836 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:18,589 in excuse me 837 00:37:18,599 --> 00:37:21,960 again and this again this causes me a 838 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,319 great deal of concern so Mr Blitz was 839 00:37:24,319 --> 00:37:28,079 sworn in and um uh and then during the 840 00:37:28,079 --> 00:37:32,480 process there was an email sent to uh 841 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,119 that in essence discussed the process of 842 00:37:35,119 --> 00:37:39,480 cross-examination of Mr Blitz and uh 843 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,200 what H and during that process which is 844 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,520 in evidence it stated that 845 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:50,040 indeed uh Mr Blitz was under oath unless 846 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,440 he changed his mind and that was a 847 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:55,599 letter an email from Mr susman he said 848 00:37:55,599 --> 00:37:58,079 after my discussion with 849 00:37:58,079 --> 00:38:01,280 um with the chair and in essence unless 850 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,480 Mr Blitz objects to any questions is 851 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:07,400 what the uh actual phrase was I saw that 852 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,240 at the beginning when it was first sent 853 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,319 ignored it but suddenly and what causes 854 00:38:12,319 --> 00:38:14,960 me pause and concern was at the end of 855 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,040 the applicant's case when Mr Blitz said 856 00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,720 no I've changed my mind I am no longer 857 00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:22,280 under oath I've decided that I was never 858 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,520 under oath and in essence that by I 859 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,680 didn't didn't don't have that testimony 860 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,079 objection I never said I changed my mind 861 00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:34,319 okay I merely said I was not testifying 862 00:38:34,319 --> 00:38:36,319 and being cross-examined like a witness 863 00:38:36,319 --> 00:38:39,040 and I explained the reasons why I never 864 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,040 said I changed my mind okay the the 865 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,800 testimony was I was not I'm not under 866 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,480 oath and I was never under oath and 867 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:45,839 that's fine you know let the record 868 00:38:45,839 --> 00:38:48,640 State what whatever the record States 869 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,359 but my concern is the appearance and 870 00:38:52,359 --> 00:38:53,599 I'll be frank with you and I'm going to 871 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:57,640 be candid that how did you know Mr BL 872 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,160 was going to do this that's what bothers 873 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:01,960 me than anything else unless Mr Blitz 874 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:03,520 objects to the question this was done 875 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,079 many many months before Mr Blitz decided 876 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:08,640 that I'm no longer under oath that in 877 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,720 essence uh and that that is in the 878 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,400 record and uh I'm going to leave that up 879 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,520 to you but what concerns me is um now as 880 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,079 soon as Mr Blitz did that this is a huge 881 00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:23,920 concern I have I immediately said I 882 00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:27,880 object and I move to strike 883 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,680 and then it was 884 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:33,560 denied that in essence so Mr Blitz 885 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,280 turned around and changed his mind as to 886 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,440 well I'm going to change my mind 887 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,319 rephrase that to make him he said I am 888 00:39:40,319 --> 00:39:43,240 no longer under oath but what what is 889 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:46,560 the now the meaning of 890 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,960 that testimony or whatever it is because 891 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:51,599 under oath the people thought he was 892 00:39:51,599 --> 00:39:53,560 under oath and then all of a sudden not 893 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,839 under oath because he changed it so and 894 00:39:56,839 --> 00:39:59,920 then in instead of uh approve saying 895 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,560 granted it was 896 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,000 denied so I'm sitting here thinking to 897 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,839 myself there's no way they're going to 898 00:40:06,839 --> 00:40:08,440 deny it twice there's no way he's going 899 00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,920 to do that I again that night objection 900 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,680 moveed to strike his in testimony denied 901 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:17,920 so now we have a question out there of 902 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,920 what's the truth how do the public 903 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,680 supposed to know what indeed throughout 904 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,440 this entire 35 hours of testimony except 905 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,240 for the limited testimony of the other 906 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:29,960 witnesses as to what actually happened 907 00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,960 here and whether this is testimony or 908 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,720 not I don't know but I got I have a 909 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:38,160 great concern as to in essence 910 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,839 what exactly happened and most 911 00:40:40,839 --> 00:40:43,640 importantly that misrepresentations were 912 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,240 not made to the public because I can 913 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,040 tell you there is absolutely misconduct 914 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:52,640 that is worse nothing worse than a 915 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,280 governmental agency who makes 916 00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,160 misrepresentations and in essence spends 917 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,319 the public but that's and I want to make 918 00:41:01,319 --> 00:41:03,319 I'm not accusing anybody but I'm just 919 00:41:03,319 --> 00:41:07,319 saying the appearance causes me pause 920 00:41:07,319 --> 00:41:09,720 and I'm very concerned about the way 921 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,000 that has proceeded because who knows 922 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:14,520 what that 35 hours of testimony was who 923 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,240 knows nobody knows I mean what is it was 924 00:41:17,240 --> 00:41:19,280 it testimony was it not testimony but 925 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,720 what I do know is that the public was 926 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:26,680 misled so we have a situation in which 927 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,079 there which I'm presuming that there's 928 00:41:29,079 --> 00:41:31,560 going to be an order issued to tell the 929 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:35,720 zon administrator here um and I'm also 930 00:41:35,720 --> 00:41:37,480 presuming that in essence The Zone 931 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:41,359 administrator is going to say no 932 00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:43,880 so you know there been it's been said 933 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,400 you know many times through various witnesses that this is a process 934 00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:52,000 and proceedings that belongs in court 935 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:53,960 well there's there's no dispute that 936 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:56,160 this started in court and in essence it 937 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,839 was Mr Blitz who wanted this case to go 938 00:41:58,839 --> 00:42:01,720 before the board of appeals but I think 939 00:42:01,720 --> 00:42:03,640 it's interesting in that right at the 940 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,240 near the beginning of the case the Mr 941 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:09,000 the chair said we do not handle this 942 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,440 type of matter we generally do not 943 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:11,960 handle this type of 944 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:16,319 matter which is an interesting uh uh how 945 00:42:16,319 --> 00:42:20,160 this is going to proceed from this point 946 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:24,680 so if indeed the court issues an order 947 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:27,280 okay which I've stated I'm fully 948 00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:29,960 expecting some type of order to be 949 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:31,559 issued because otherwise we've been 950 00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:33,240 sitting here for the last 35 hours and 951 00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:36,359 spend a tremendous amount of money so 952 00:42:36,359 --> 00:42:40,119 and the Zone administrator says no now 953 00:42:40,119 --> 00:42:43,359 what uh so now what's going to happen if 954 00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:44,839 indeed the board then tries to go to 955 00:42:44,839 --> 00:42:47,480 court to enforce this well then that 956 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:48,880 means this whole proceedings was nothing 957 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,880 more than a sham because we were in 958 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,599 court to begin with and we're here so 959 00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:55,000 now we have to go back to court to 960 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,040 indeed enforce powers in which you in 961 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,599 essence did not 962 00:43:00,599 --> 00:43:05,680 have um again this as a as an attorney 963 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,480 who's been doing Municipal work for 964 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,040 almost 30 years this is extremely 965 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,480 serious to me this is exactly the type 966 00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:18,599 of um uh thing that in essence I am told 967 00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:22,040 to stop okay the Town Council has told 968 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:26,200 me to stop it to in essence protect the 969 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,359 public and based upon what has happened 970 00:43:31,359 --> 00:43:33,319 it concerns me that there was an 971 00:43:33,319 --> 00:43:36,440 intentional spinning of the public by 972 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,559 the government that I'm not going to put 973 00:43:38,559 --> 00:43:41,119 up with um so but you you do whatever 974 00:43:41,119 --> 00:43:43,800 you want to do and we'll see so what's 975 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,720 uh also interesting about this is uh 976 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:49,839 early on in the proceeding there is a 977 00:43:49,839 --> 00:43:53,000 question about how the board is going to 978 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,240 vote okay in essence that in essence 979 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,720 many uh a couple of the board members 980 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,880 missed meetings and as a result that 981 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,240 they missed testimony so in essence they 982 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:08,960 can't vote because in the end I can 983 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:11,359 disagree with Mr sesan's assessment that 984 00:44:11,359 --> 00:44:13,319 they can't go back and look at the video 985 00:44:13,319 --> 00:44:15,359 because the code doesn't provide that I 986 00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:17,559 get it that's fine the problem is with 987 00:44:17,559 --> 00:44:22,960 Mr blitz's uh withdrawal of his 988 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:25,280 testimony or withdrawal of his swearing 989 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,040 in and we don't know exactly what 990 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,079 process that 991 00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:32,640 is there's no reason why everybody can't 992 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:37,720 vote because in essence you know that is no longer testimony there's no 993 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:40,079 longer evidence because in essence 994 00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:42,160 there's no reason why they can't go back 995 00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,319 and look at that meeting that they 996 00:44:43,319 --> 00:44:45,040 missed and make that 997 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,760 determination so that's going to be very 998 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,680 interesting uh and I can tell you either 999 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,200 way either if it's going to be three 1000 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:53,760 people or if it's going to be everybody 1001 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,680 else that's going to be entitled to vote 1002 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,599 because of where we are right now now 1003 00:44:57,599 --> 00:44:58,920 and because of the fact that we don't 1004 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,280 know what the testimony is or what 1005 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,480 indeed has been introduced into evidence 1006 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,920 or where it was both answers are going 1007 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:10,160 to be wrong okay however you vote both 1008 00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:11,720 answers are going to be incorrect 1009 00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:13,720 because in essence who's going to be 1010 00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:15,240 right I've never even heard of that 1011 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:17,559 before that in essence how are you going 1012 00:45:17,559 --> 00:45:20,720 to handle that situation and how is that 1013 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,280 vote going to occur so I can tell you 1014 00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:25,760 either way it's going to be 1015 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,400 unenforceable because somebody's going 1016 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:29,200 to have to somebody much smarter than 1017 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,119 all of us are going to is going to have 1018 00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:32,599 to review that to make that 1019 00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:34,800 determination because now you've got an 1020 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:41,000 issue as to who can vote who knows okay 1021 00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,079 now uh the obviously this is going to be 1022 00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:50,790 going on 1023 00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,720 um okay so basically let's make sure we 1024 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:57,880 you know I go over briefly um how we are 1025 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,040 here basically what happened 1026 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,839 approximately 12 to 14 years ago permits 1027 00:46:02,839 --> 00:46:05,640 were issued for this development the 1028 00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:08,200 developer didn't build pursu to these 1029 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,480 event uh these permits that were issued 1030 00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,400 the permits were extended but again uh 1031 00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,240 for various reasons one way the other he 1032 00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,440 chose not to build so for the purpos of 1033 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,319 the proceeding I'm to div you know avoid 1034 00:46:22,319 --> 00:46:24,720 any issues that we discussed before 1035 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:26,440 about you know Mr Blitz and whether he 1036 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,960 was attorney for the board attorney for 1037 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,720 the town ignore all of that but what's 1038 00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:35,280 important is um uh in essence there was 1039 00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,200 a determination that indeed uh the 1040 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,720 comprehensive uh plan was indeed going 1041 00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:45,559 through the process and uh again there's 1042 00:46:45,559 --> 00:46:49,079 no dispute uh by Mr Woodburn or by the 1043 00:46:49,079 --> 00:46:51,559 applicant who both testified that indeed 1044 00:46:51,559 --> 00:46:54,920 these properties are in the flood plane 1045 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,440 just object just to clarify Woodburn Mr 1046 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,359 uh Donovan did not testify that all the 1047 00:47:02,359 --> 00:47:04,599 properties are in the flood plane home 1048 00:47:04,599 --> 00:47:06,359 place is clearly not in the flood plane 1049 00:47:06,359 --> 00:47:08,559 not anywhere close to the flood plane so 1050 00:47:08,559 --> 00:47:10,400 lumping all the properties in together 1051 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,359 and this discussion I'll I'll address 1052 00:47:12,359 --> 00:47:14,319 the flood plane arguments later but I 1053 00:47:14,319 --> 00:47:16,160 just want to point out that home place 1054 00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:17,960 isn't anywhere close to a flood plan 1055 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,680 then then I can I can I can only stay 1056 00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,240 what they said in their testimony okay 1057 00:47:23,240 --> 00:47:26,440 but uh with that profer I won't object 1058 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:29,240 to that offer and so if I do say 1059 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:31,240 properties is in the flood plane let's 1060 00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:34,400 assume that I also say that excluding 1061 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,920 the Home Place uh but rest a little more 1062 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,720 uh so in essence 1063 00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:43,000 so what's interesting is so the 1064 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,119 applicant um uh decided that indeed he F 1065 00:47:47,119 --> 00:47:49,000 wanted to prepare these applications 1066 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,520 during the comprehensive plan 1067 00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,240 process and according to Mr Donovan you 1068 00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,200 know you went and talked to the the 1069 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,520 zoning administrator at that time who 1070 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,960 said no uh that in essence he's not 1071 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,800 going to uh he's going to rezone it to 1072 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,000 take these property out of development 1073 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,880 Mr Donovan stated that indeed it never 1074 00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:10,880 went to the Planning Commission which 1075 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,200 the Planning Commission had an 1076 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:16,480 incredibly long process um as a personal 1077 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:18,960 opinion it went on too long but in 1078 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,880 essence everybody got heard everybody 1079 00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:26,880 you know there was meeting after meeting hearing after hearing that 1080 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:30,280 in essence and uh with for the Planning 1081 00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,880 Commission and Mr Donovan said that he 1082 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:34,480 never participated in the Planning 1083 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,559 Commission process also you know it goes 1084 00:48:37,559 --> 00:48:39,559 to the Town Council and he met with a 1085 00:48:39,559 --> 00:48:42,520 couple of the members who also stated 1086 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:43,920 they're not making any changes to the 1087 00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,559 Planning Commission so we have an issue 1088 00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:50,760 with regard to uh in essence the uh 1089 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,599 question is did he really take the 1090 00:48:52,599 --> 00:48:55,559 necessary steps to protect his own 1091 00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:57,319 property or 1092 00:48:57,319 --> 00:48:58,920 was this the idea that I'm just going to 1093 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,920 file these applications and see what 1094 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,599 happens and I think it's in essence um 1095 00:49:05,599 --> 00:49:08,640 with regard to something that both Mr 1096 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,319 Donovan and also Mr Woodburn said said 1097 00:49:11,319 --> 00:49:13,839 and you know with regard to their review 1098 00:49:13,839 --> 00:49:16,559 is the quoting term things 1099 00:49:16,559 --> 00:49:20,119 change uh I mean unfortunately in ches 1100 00:49:20,119 --> 00:49:22,839 Pake Beach things change especially in 1101 00:49:22,839 --> 00:49:26,319 the last 12 to 14 years and and also 1102 00:49:26,319 --> 00:49:28,839 after those applications in essence 1103 00:49:28,839 --> 00:49:31,839 expired 10 years go by before in essence 1104 00:49:31,839 --> 00:49:34,920 he files he prepares these applications 1105 00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,200 uh with regard to the comprehensive 1106 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,920 plan so in essence uh uh the 1107 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,400 comprehensive plan process goes through 1108 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,079 and it's made its decision that um that 1109 00:49:46,079 --> 00:49:48,000 indeed uh 1110 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:50,880 Mr the applicant really did not 1111 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,480 participate in the whole comprehensive 1112 00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,280 plan process except for to file these 1113 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,400 appli ations 1114 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:03,000 so what is important here and um is and 1115 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:04,799 I want to be absolutely stressed in on 1116 00:50:04,799 --> 00:50:06,960 the record of the importance of the 1117 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,680 board of appeals uh the board of appeals 1118 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,240 plays a fundamental and vital role in 1119 00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:15,839 the function of government to avoid 1120 00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:18,000 hardships as a they appear that's what's 1121 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:22,119 important for the board to do but uh uh 1122 00:50:22,119 --> 00:50:24,599 what's important is you know for those 1123 00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:26,720 in to make sure that people are not 1124 00:50:26,720 --> 00:50:31,119 hared by uh hardships when variances can 1125 00:50:31,119 --> 00:50:33,640 fix this matter but the problem is is 1126 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,960 that that does not apply to applications 1127 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,599 for zones or changing the zones or 1128 00:50:39,599 --> 00:50:42,480 overturning uh decisions of Town Council 1129 00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,720 so the question is um you know earlier 1130 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:48,680 on the coun the chair said we do not 1131 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,880 generally handle this type of matter 1132 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:55,000 which begs the question of why now so uh 1133 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,040 there are two things that concern me and 1134 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,160 I'm going to put them on the record 1135 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,079 number one is that the in essence the 1136 00:51:01,079 --> 00:51:03,520 board of appeals is completely correct 1137 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,400 that indeed you have all of these 1138 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,440 authorities and powers that in essence 1139 00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,240 uh are outlined and requested by Mr 1140 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:13,440 Blitz that indeed you have the authority 1141 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,920 to do pretty much anything you want to 1142 00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,599 and overturn the ability of Town Council 1143 00:51:18,599 --> 00:51:21,680 and overturn any law that they've passed 1144 00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:24,440 um I do not believe that the you've 1145 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,000 already gotten records letters in the 1146 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,119 record and and also that in essence you 1147 00:51:29,119 --> 00:51:31,760 don't have that Authority the other part 1148 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,799 of this is that in essence Mr Blitz is 1149 00:51:34,799 --> 00:51:37,559 wrong that in essence then the question 1150 00:51:37,559 --> 00:51:40,640 is what is the impression that you have 1151 00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,440 in essence imposed upon the public um 1152 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:48,839 that becomes deadly serious okay and you 1153 00:51:48,839 --> 00:51:51,240 know I sent a letter a little while ago 1154 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,000 you know I advise you to get your own 1155 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,920 lawyer oh Todd's crazy pounds is crazy 1156 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:57,799 and everything else 1157 00:51:57,799 --> 00:52:00,720 um you know I would not want to be in 1158 00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:01,839 that position but that's that's 1159 00:52:01,839 --> 00:52:05,400 completely your decision because in Ence 1160 00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:07,440 the board of appeals is the one who put 1161 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:11,119 themselves into this position 1162 00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:14,079 but so basically so the question is 1163 00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:16,319 what's going to happen 1164 00:52:16,319 --> 00:52:19,839 next and this is again my presumption as 1165 00:52:19,839 --> 00:52:23,520 to where we are and where we're going so 1166 00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,240 I think the board's going to issue an 1167 00:52:25,240 --> 00:52:28,880 order because 30 5 hours all this time 1168 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:30,960 all these months all these thousands of 1169 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,760 dollars spent I can't imagine an order 1170 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,799 not being spent that's fine now with 1171 00:52:36,799 --> 00:52:38,880 regard to the order it's going to have 1172 00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:41,839 to be specific uh it's not going to be 1173 00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:44,240 and I wrote down the word slop uh it's 1174 00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:45,640 not going to be you're going to have to 1175 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,359 do details not only the findings of fact 1176 00:52:48,359 --> 00:52:50,920 but also the legal basis as to how the 1177 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,359 board of appeals has the full legal 1178 00:52:53,359 --> 00:52:57,160 ability to overturn Council and to and 1179 00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,880 again to show these powers that indeed 1180 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:02,400 you're going to order the zoning 1181 00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,280 administrator to take a particular act 1182 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,400 and I'm presuming and believe the zoning 1183 00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,160 administrator is going to say no I'm 1184 00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:11,240 going to follow the law and the 1185 00:53:11,240 --> 00:53:13,400 instructions of the Town Council and how 1186 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:15,640 you're going to enforce that that's 1187 00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,920 going to have to be in the order so then 1188 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,880 um as I stated once the order is done 1189 00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,440 then it's going to be given to the 1190 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,799 zoning administrator who again is my 1191 00:53:26,799 --> 00:53:31,280 understanding is going to be rejected so 1192 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,079 where does that leave all of us um uh 1193 00:53:35,079 --> 00:53:38,400 with regard to my concern again is how 1194 00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:42,400 has this been presented to the public um 1195 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,160 that's a great deal that I have concerns 1196 00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,680 um so you've you've you've already been 1197 00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,160 told and I did it on purpose that in 1198 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:55,520 essence early on in the proceeding by 1199 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:58,040 the Town Council by the zoning 1200 00:53:58,040 --> 00:53:59,599 administrator and also the Planning 1201 00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:01,760 Commission you don't have the authority 1202 00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:03,200 to do any of the things which you are 1203 00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:06,720 being told pursuing the standard to do 1204 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:08,480 now again I could have waited till the 1205 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:09,920 night could have waited till the night 1206 00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,920 to do it but no no no I wanted to be 1207 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:13,760 able to look at you and say you were 1208 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,799 fully informed you had notice many many 1209 00:54:16,799 --> 00:54:19,480 months ago many many hearings ago you 1210 00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,839 were fully informed and chose to ignore 1211 00:54:22,839 --> 00:54:27,000 it and that's your option but uh 1212 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,680 again I wanted to make sure that indeed 1213 00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:31,480 that is the reason that was done is 1214 00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:38,440 because that plan was done many many uh months ago so this is going to be 1215 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,480 I'll be frank for for a lawyer for my 1216 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,799 purposes it's going to be fun to watch I 1217 00:54:42,799 --> 00:54:44,720 mean uh like I said I'm presuming an 1218 00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:46,839 order is going to be done I'm I'm 1219 00:54:46,839 --> 00:54:48,839 expressing I'm expecting an order to be 1220 00:54:48,839 --> 00:54:51,040 sent the zoning administrator is going 1221 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,760 to rejecting it um and in essence you're 1222 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,040 going have to show me the powers to 1223 00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:58,200 enfor what you're doing in essence the 1224 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,119 zoning administrator rejects it the Town 1225 00:55:00,119 --> 00:55:02,000 Council rejects it so now you have to go 1226 00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,480 to court to say no court we do have the 1227 00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,640 powers to do all this when in essence we 1228 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,960 started out in court so the question is 1229 00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,160 if we start it out in court why don't 1230 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,280 you have the power to enforce it 1231 00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:18,920 yourself so again um 1232 00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:21,119 uh so 1233 00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:25,160 again that's where I believe we are and 1234 00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,960 the town's position with regard to the 1235 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:31,359 case so in essence to if you want to see 1236 00:55:31,359 --> 00:55:34,920 these um uh cases would you like them 1237 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,079 now or would you like them later or I 1238 00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:39,039 don't I I didn't bring enough for 1239 00:55:39,039 --> 00:55:41,119 everybody um would you like me to 1240 00:55:41,119 --> 00:55:43,760 resubmit enough to everybody uh that's 1241 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:45,839 completely up to you regarding the cases 1242 00:55:45,839 --> 00:55:47,760 of dealing with vesting uh in other 1243 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,799 words at some point with regard to these 1244 00:55:49,799 --> 00:55:52,000 applications because what's important is 1245 00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,720 oh these applications say I've got 1246 00:55:53,720 --> 00:55:56,319 property rights well no you don't um 1247 00:55:56,319 --> 00:55:58,160 property rights occur in the recent 1248 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:01,720 cases permit Construction Construction 1249 00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:04,160 that's visible to the public uh we are 1250 00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:07,319 we're absolutely nowhere near that and 1251 00:56:07,319 --> 00:56:08,839 again what's fun is another case here 1252 00:56:08,839 --> 00:56:12,599 which you can review is that a uh uh um 1253 00:56:12,599 --> 00:56:14,480 board of appeals can overturn Town 1254 00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:15,839 Council which you can look at that you 1255 00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:21,160 know for fun also but that uh is the 1256 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:24,240 town's presentation uh again with regard 1257 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:26,880 to the introduction of these would you 1258 00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:28,200 like to do that now or would you like to 1259 00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:29,559 do that later how would you like to do 1260 00:56:29,559 --> 00:56:32,200 that I I I would you want me to submit 1261 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:34,160 others with everybody email it to 1262 00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,680 everybody 1263 00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:38,920 out I was gonna say email to Shar okay 1264 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:41,160 so I'm gonna give uh one copy of each of 1265 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:44,640 them to Sharon and then I will email the 1266 00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,640 rest of it to everybody 1267 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,280 else what are you wait we're getting 1268 00:56:50,280 --> 00:56:52,160 documents submitted outside the context 1269 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:54,760 of the meeting as exhibits what getting 1270 00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:59,720 the cases that Mr pound cited just 1271 00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:02,240 now yes physical copies right there just 1272 00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:03,960 not enough for the rest of 1273 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:05,960 us that how's 1274 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:08,240 working okay so you're going to submit 1275 00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,440 them to the clerk now so that it's in 1276 00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:13,160 the record that they've been submitted 1277 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:14,200 and then you're going to follow up with 1278 00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,720 an email copies digital copies is that 1279 00:57:16,720 --> 00:57:18,440 what the idea is passing it to Sharon 1280 00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,200 will be good get it Sharon we'll get the 1281 00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:22,839 rest of it that acceptable and these are 1282 00:57:22,839 --> 00:57:28,190 just court cases right that's right 1283 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:29,760 the record I'm going to do this and then 1284 00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:34,549 make the note and then I will email you 1285 00:57:34,559 --> 00:57:37,920 tomorrow and copies of all the cases for 1286 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:39,440 everyone I do have an extra copy if 1287 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:41,920 anybody would like to have that for the 1288 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:45,160 record I will be emailing 1289 00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,640 that okay thank you Mr pounds uh let's 1290 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,359 go ahead and take 10 minut or let's take 1291 00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:51,520 five minutes and we will reconvene for 1292 00:57:51,520 --> 00:58:25,190 any questions for Mr pounds 1293 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:32,069 here 1294 00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:34,319 so Mr sesman I only have one copy of the 1295 00:58:34,319 --> 00:58:36,920 taba County case um do you want me to 1296 00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,520 submit this and I can just reprint 1297 00:58:38,520 --> 00:58:40,839 another one when I email that or how 1298 00:58:40,839 --> 00:58:42,599 would you like me to do that that was 1299 00:58:42,599 --> 00:58:43,760 that case in which says the board of 1300 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,200 appeals can't overturn the council book 1301 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:48,400 I don't get whatever you want however 1302 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,480 you want I can submit it and just re 1303 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:51,640 print another 1304 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,079 copy okay submit 1305 00:58:54,079 --> 00:59:06,430 this okay 1306 00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,680 four yeah three three dealing with the 1307 00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:10,319 vesting issue and then one dealing with 1308 00:59:10,319 --> 00:59:25,029 the 1309 00:59:25,039 --> 00:59:35,580 other for 1310 00:59:35,590 --> 01:00:00,630 [Music] 1311 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:51,589 spe 1312 01:00:51,599 --> 01:01:11,410 talk 1313 01:01:11,420 --> 01:01:21,430 [Music] 1314 01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:39,589 oh yeah yeah yeah 1315 01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:41,920 how did you guys 1316 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,319 do I text should 1317 01:01:45,319 --> 01:01:48,200 text 1318 01:01:48,200 --> 01:02:11,190 not but 1319 01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:26,109 show 1320 01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:40,170 e 1321 01:02:40,180 --> 01:03:24,829 [Music] 1322 01:03:24,839 --> 01:03:29,119 okay um we are reconvening for questions 1323 01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:31,599 from Mr pounds at this time we will 1324 01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:33,200 allow any parties of record to ask 1325 01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:35,319 questions of the town's presentation 1326 01:03:35,319 --> 01:03:37,160 questions should be limited in scope to 1327 01:03:37,160 --> 01:03:39,319 address the information presented please 1328 01:03:39,319 --> 01:03:41,240 step forward announce who you are and 1329 01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,079 who you represent and your name and 1330 01:03:43,079 --> 01:03:44,920 address on the signing sheet you may 1331 01:03:44,920 --> 01:03:46,079 then direct your questions to the 1332 01:03:46,079 --> 01:03:49,119 relevant party um and the board may also 1333 01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:51,000 ask 1334 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,559 questions um Mr susman would you mind 1335 01:03:53,559 --> 01:03:58,870 doing a blanket swearing in of all like 1336 01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:00,359 is any member of the public planning to 1337 01:04:00,359 --> 01:04:05,630 step forward and ask 1338 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:10,390 questions um do we want to 1339 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,480 do uh are you planning on 1340 01:04:13,480 --> 01:04:17,200 questioning very okay um since we're 1341 01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,119 doing this um we're still following the 1342 01:04:20,119 --> 01:04:21,559 guidelines established during the May 1343 01:04:21,559 --> 01:04:24,839 29th session with Mr fiser um the line 1344 01:04:24,839 --> 01:04:26,599 between cross-examining clarifying 1345 01:04:26,599 --> 01:04:28,559 questions isn't something the board 1346 01:04:28,559 --> 01:04:30,440 feels comfortable delineating but the 1347 01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:32,039 board has decided to allow allow 1348 01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:34,119 questions if lawyers feel that this 1349 01:04:34,119 --> 01:04:35,720 violates the professional code of ethics 1350 01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:36,920 they must use their judgment as to 1351 01:04:36,920 --> 01:04:38,559 whether they can answer the question if 1352 01:04:38,559 --> 01:04:39,920 one or more questions are declined to be 1353 01:04:39,920 --> 01:04:41,520 answered the presentation will remain in 1354 01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:43,400 the record and the record will reflect 1355 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,359 refuser refusal to answer the questioner 1356 01:04:46,359 --> 01:04:47,960 may profer as what questions would be 1357 01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,400 posed given the opportunity um and I'd 1358 01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:56,319 advise that if um yes you may use your 1359 01:04:56,319 --> 01:05:01,839 uh go ahead um Mr uh thank you Mr chair 1360 01:05:01,839 --> 01:05:03,400 um Mr 1361 01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:06,839 pounds you discussed that we had already 1362 01:05:06,839 --> 01:05:08,279 gone to 1363 01:05:08,279 --> 01:05:13,000 court and isn't it true that we didn't 1364 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:14,599 go to court on the substance of this 1365 01:05:14,599 --> 01:05:17,720 case we went to court to allow this 1366 01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,319 proceeding to even occur that is it was 1367 01:05:20,319 --> 01:05:22,760 a proceeding of 1368 01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,160 mandamus to have admin ministrative 1369 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:28,160 relief which is what we asked for so we 1370 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:30,400 didn't ask to go to court first 1371 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:34,799 we filed an appeal to this board and you 1372 01:05:34,799 --> 01:05:36,480 sent a letter saying we can't have it so 1373 01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:40,990 we went to court isn't that 1374 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:44,920 true what my testimony is is that we 1375 01:05:44,920 --> 01:05:47,240 were in court and that in essence 1376 01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:48,799 there's no dispute that the court has 1377 01:05:48,799 --> 01:05:51,119 jurisdiction to hear all of this case 1378 01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:54,119 and that for some reason Mr Blitz didn't 1379 01:05:54,119 --> 01:05:56,240 want a court he wanted that in essence 1380 01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:00,200 to come and have this board hear the 1381 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:04,839 case that was the question that that in the presentation as I do and my 1382 01:06:04,839 --> 01:06:07,440 question is we were in court you could 1383 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,200 have filed an amended complaint we were 1384 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,000 there let's do there okay and I never 1385 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:13,760 consented to any of this so to answer 1386 01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,160 your question you are correct but my 1387 01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:17,960 point is 1388 01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,119 why you know if Court can resolve this 1389 01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:24,319 why did you want the board of appeals so 1390 01:06:24,319 --> 01:06:27,279 badly that's the point I was 1391 01:06:27,279 --> 01:06:29,720 making I just want to make it clear to 1392 01:06:29,720 --> 01:06:33,079 the board we we originally came after we 1393 01:06:33,079 --> 01:06:35,640 were denied planning site plan re after 1394 01:06:35,640 --> 01:06:38,240 the Roden reel was denied site plan 1395 01:06:38,240 --> 01:06:41,720 review and zoning permit review we filed 1396 01:06:41,720 --> 01:06:44,200 appeal to the board contesting that yes 1397 01:06:44,200 --> 01:06:46,079 let me make sure um I want to we we will 1398 01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:48,720 have a time for summaries and 1399 01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,520 clarifications yes I I agree this is 1400 01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,000 kind of argumentative make questions to 1401 01:06:53,000 --> 01:07:01,670 Mr P uh Mr okay no that's fair 1402 01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,079 Mr pounds when you sent the letter to 1403 01:07:04,079 --> 01:07:06,480 the rod and reel or to 1404 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:08,640 me to 1405 01:07:08,640 --> 01:07:13,400 me saying that 1406 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,640 the we couldn't have this board of 1407 01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:18,119 appeals hearing at that time were you 1408 01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:19,799 representing the board of 1409 01:07:19,799 --> 01:07:21,760 appeals I don't know letter you're 1410 01:07:21,760 --> 01:07:23,599 speaking of it's in the it's in the 1411 01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:27,760 record and we submitted the 1412 01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,920 letter I don't so 1413 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,240 many we can we can discuss later I I 1414 01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:34,880 don't mind referring that later but I I 1415 01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:44,829 don't remember what you're talking 1416 01:07:44,839 --> 01:07:47,240 about actually it might be fine faster 1417 01:07:47,240 --> 01:07:53,750 for me to find it this 1418 01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,000 way so You' like we can reserve that to 1419 01:07:57,000 --> 01:07:59,200 a future meetings as we're going to be 1420 01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:00,960 back and we can answer the question 1421 01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,990 later that's up to the 1422 01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,079 chair take a moment to look and if not 1423 01:08:06,079 --> 01:08:28,789 let's move along 1424 01:08:28,799 --> 01:08:31,159 we'll just Reserve 1425 01:08:31,159 --> 01:08:57,030 that um let's see 1426 01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:58,279 no further 1427 01:08:58,279 --> 01:09:01,679 questions thank you does any member of 1428 01:09:01,679 --> 01:09:03,400 the board have questions they'd like to 1429 01:09:03,400 --> 01:09:08,679 ask this yeah I have one question um Mr 1430 01:09:08,679 --> 01:09:11,000 pounds you made this statement several 1431 01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:12,600 times that this 1432 01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:16,400 board has no power to direct Planning 1433 01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,040 and 1434 01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:21,199 Zoning to take any 1435 01:09:21,199 --> 01:09:24,600 action ordinance uh the ordinance that 1436 01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:28,630 empowers the board 1437 01:09:28,640 --> 01:09:34,400 29032 um gives us the power to decide on 1438 01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:36,640 matters of 1439 01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:39,799 interpretation or errors in an 1440 01:09:39,799 --> 01:09:44,319 order by the administrator 1441 01:09:44,319 --> 01:09:46,799 or Planning and Zoning 1442 01:09:46,799 --> 01:09:49,239 commission so if this board were to 1443 01:09:49,239 --> 01:09:51,440 decide a matter let's say not this 1444 01:09:51,440 --> 01:09:53,839 matter in particular but let's say just 1445 01:09:53,839 --> 01:09:56,719 hypothetically 1446 01:09:56,719 --> 01:09:58,520 would decide that the Planning and 1447 01:09:58,520 --> 01:09:59,600 Zoning 1448 01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:02,320 administrator incorrectly interpreted 1449 01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:04,790 some 1450 01:10:04,800 --> 01:10:07,199 provision are you implying that this 1451 01:10:07,199 --> 01:10:09,960 board does not have the authority to 1452 01:10:09,960 --> 01:10:13,320 direct planing and Zoning 1453 01:10:13,320 --> 01:10:14,840 administrator 1454 01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,719 to change his mind on an interpretation 1455 01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:21,080 of a provision and and I want to make 1456 01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,199 sure so basically I think it's very 1457 01:10:23,199 --> 01:10:24,719 interesting the fact that you the 1458 01:10:24,719 --> 01:10:27,520 examples that you just gave where errors 1459 01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:29,880 in the order of a zoning administrator 1460 01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:33,360 okay that is exactly what the board of 1461 01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,560 appeals is designed to do to make sure 1462 01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:37,880 that indeed if the zoning administrator 1463 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,000 goes out there and makes a mistake or 1464 01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:43,640 issues a uh a decision with regard to a 1465 01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:45,080 piece of property that creates a 1466 01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:47,560 hardship or that indeed the strict 1467 01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:49,920 interpretation creates a hardship which 1468 01:10:49,920 --> 01:10:52,239 as you know is your standard that in 1469 01:10:52,239 --> 01:10:55,600 essence the that homeowner where than 1470 01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,600 being stuck with that with the absolute 1471 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,440 interpetation has a place to go that is 1472 01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:02,400 absolutely what it is but I think that 1473 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:03,719 but I'm going to answer your question 1474 01:11:03,719 --> 01:11:07,840 directly that with regard to the um uh 1475 01:11:07,840 --> 01:11:10,440 incorrect interpretation by the zoning 1476 01:11:10,440 --> 01:11:13,040 administrator so in essence what you've 1477 01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:15,040 done is saying okay you've had the 1478 01:11:15,040 --> 01:11:17,960 zoning administrator who believes that 1479 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,120 the Town Council is the one who makes 1480 01:11:20,120 --> 01:11:22,880 the laws they have made the laws they 1481 01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,000 have instructions from the Town Council 1482 01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:28,040 as to how those laws are going to be 1483 01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:30,280 interpreted now your question is in 1484 01:11:30,280 --> 01:11:33,320 essence well no we're going to issue our 1485 01:11:33,320 --> 01:11:35,600 interpretation of it and now the zoning 1486 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,440 Administration zoning administrator is 1487 01:11:37,440 --> 01:11:40,800 to interpret uh our belief and 1488 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:42,560 interpretation rather than the Town 1489 01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,120 Council I am presuming I ask you to let 1490 01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,880 me finish first I am presuming based 1491 01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:50,400 upon what I understand that the Zone 1492 01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,280 administrator is going to say no I'm 1493 01:11:52,280 --> 01:11:54,480 following the law I'm following the Town 1494 01:11:54,480 --> 01:11:56,159 Council I'm following the instructions 1495 01:11:56,159 --> 01:11:58,360 of the Town Council that's my 1496 01:11:58,360 --> 01:11:59,880 understanding as to what and we're 1497 01:11:59,880 --> 01:12:01,560 talking about your hypothetical 1498 01:12:01,560 --> 01:12:04,120 obviously well you you're you're 1499 01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:07,960 assuming here that uh that I'm talking 1500 01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,440 about a particular 1501 01:12:10,440 --> 01:12:13,199 instance in other words that this board 1502 01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:16,719 might direct Planning and Zoning 1503 01:12:16,719 --> 01:12:18,360 to 1504 01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,480 um I don't know 1505 01:12:21,480 --> 01:12:24,719 ignore ignore what's happened and and 1506 01:12:24,719 --> 01:12:27,840 direct the uh the site plans to be 1507 01:12:27,840 --> 01:12:31,400 reviewed under roal ordinances I'm just 1508 01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:33,800 I'm asking in a general way because you 1509 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,320 made the statement that it seems to be 1510 01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,840 that under no instance can this board 1511 01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:45,960 direct the Planning and Zoning 1512 01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,600 administrator and yet we're allowed to 1513 01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:50,440 decide on matters of 1514 01:12:50,440 --> 01:12:53,440 interpretation and if we decide that 1515 01:12:53,440 --> 01:12:55,600 planning and zoning administr has 1516 01:12:55,600 --> 01:12:59,110 misinterpreted 1517 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:01,920 something it sounds like you're saying 1518 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,880 that we cannot tell the Planning and 1519 01:13:03,880 --> 01:13:05,120 Zoning 1520 01:13:05,120 --> 01:13:08,159 administrator to change his mind and 1521 01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:11,199 what's interesting is uh and then I 1522 01:13:11,199 --> 01:13:12,440 understand your point with regard to 1523 01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:14,600 your hypothetical but the problem with 1524 01:13:14,600 --> 01:13:18,040 your hypothetical is it does not also 1525 01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,320 add in the condition that the Town 1526 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,159 Council says otherwise so now we are 1527 01:13:23,159 --> 01:13:25,960 back to the point of the the the board 1528 01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:28,920 of appeals believes that it can overturn 1529 01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,199 decisions of the Town Council which goes 1530 01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:33,960 to my point of saying at what point is 1531 01:13:33,960 --> 01:13:37,120 that a misrepresentation to the 1532 01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:39,280 public okay now and I'm and I'm going to 1533 01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:41,639 finish answering your question too um 1534 01:13:41,639 --> 01:13:43,719 because you mentioned that and I think 1535 01:13:43,719 --> 01:13:46,920 did your question also include the the 1536 01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:48,639 Planning Commission and make issuing 1537 01:13:48,639 --> 01:13:49,800 orders with regard to the Planning 1538 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,639 Commission was that part of your 1539 01:13:51,639 --> 01:13:53,520 question yes Planning Commission and the 1540 01:13:53,520 --> 01:13:55,280 administrator I can't speak for the plan 1541 01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:56,760 commission okay I'm not here to speak 1542 01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,800 for them uh but I can tell you this uh I 1543 01:13:59,800 --> 01:14:02,080 think it will be amusing that in this 1544 01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:03,840 sense the board of appeals issues an 1545 01:14:03,840 --> 01:14:05,400 order telling the Planning Commission to 1546 01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:06,120 do 1547 01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,679 something uh do me a favor could can you 1548 01:14:08,679 --> 01:14:10,520 invite me to to when that meeting is 1549 01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:12,480 because the Planning Commission will 1550 01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:14,639 probably tell the board of appeals what 1551 01:14:14,639 --> 01:14:16,679 they can do with your 1552 01:14:16,679 --> 01:14:20,040 order so so but I I can't speak for them 1553 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:22,880 but I I think that will be fun to watch 1554 01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:25,040 oh if if the Planning and Zoning admin 1555 01:14:25,040 --> 01:14:27,440 ministrator or commission issues an 1556 01:14:27,440 --> 01:14:30,880 order and the board of appeals decides 1557 01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:33,280 that that order there's a 1558 01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:36,080 misinterpretation involved in that 1559 01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,440 order are you saying that this board 1560 01:14:38,440 --> 01:14:41,320 cannot reverse that 1561 01:14:41,320 --> 01:14:43,280 order again could you repeat the 1562 01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:45,360 question because your question was was 1563 01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,320 dealt with multiple people involved and 1564 01:14:48,320 --> 01:14:49,639 ultimately I think the answer is going 1565 01:14:49,639 --> 01:14:53,920 to be the same but um uh I'm going to 1566 01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:55,040 ask you to repeat it thing because I 1567 01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:57,199 want to make sure the record is clear as 1568 01:14:57,199 --> 01:14:58,440 to what we're talking about because I 1569 01:14:58,440 --> 01:14:59,400 can tell you where we're going to go 1570 01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:00,400 with 1571 01:15:00,400 --> 01:15:06,520 it if an order is issued by the 1572 01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:09,360 administrator or the Planning and Zoning 1573 01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:12,800 commission to a developer 1574 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:17,840 say and this board decides that that 1575 01:15:17,840 --> 01:15:21,840 order um was an error because it it 1576 01:15:21,840 --> 01:15:22,920 because it was a result of a 1577 01:15:22,920 --> 01:15:25,560 misinterpretation 1578 01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:27,159 CIF I can stop you there when you say an 1579 01:15:27,159 --> 01:15:29,800 order was issued who issued that order 1580 01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:32,040 that you just referred to Manning and 1581 01:15:32,040 --> 01:15:34,280 only administrator or the commission 1582 01:15:34,280 --> 01:15:36,600 planning on commission okay so they're 1583 01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,840 the ones that issue the order yes okay 1584 01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,480 and then you decide can you decide I 1585 01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:44,000 apologize I want to make sure I 1586 01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,040 understand it so the question is can is 1587 01:15:46,040 --> 01:15:49,760 if can the board of appeals in essence 1588 01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:52,960 act to overrule the Planning Commission 1589 01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,639 and if the board of appeals thinks that 1590 01:15:54,639 --> 01:15:57,679 the Planning Commission overruled 1591 01:15:57,679 --> 01:15:59,199 something or made a 1592 01:15:59,199 --> 01:16:01,320 mistake correct you know it's 1593 01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:04,000 interesting I think that's that's in my 1594 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,000 if you want my opinion or I think you 1595 01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,040 better raise that with the Planning 1596 01:16:08,040 --> 01:16:10,480 Commission first because I'm not going 1597 01:16:10,480 --> 01:16:11,480 to be telling with the Planning 1598 01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:13,159 Commission what they can and cannot do 1599 01:16:13,159 --> 01:16:15,120 in that instance they are an independent 1600 01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:17,679 body they're an independent agency in 1601 01:16:17,679 --> 01:16:21,480 this town and in essence the question is 1602 01:16:21,480 --> 01:16:24,239 do you have the authority to overrule 1603 01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:27,080 that other administrative body is in ESS 1604 01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:29,639 is what your question is okay and you 1605 01:16:29,639 --> 01:16:31,880 can ask them but if they were to ask me 1606 01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,239 I would say no they're going to make 1607 01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:37,239 their own decisions with regard to it 1608 01:16:37,239 --> 01:16:40,000 and you know in essence and if Town 1609 01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:43,040 Council says something different that's 1610 01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:46,080 going to control in my opinion if this 1611 01:16:46,080 --> 01:16:49,600 board has the power to decide and that's 1612 01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:51,080 what the ordinance 1613 01:16:51,080 --> 01:16:56,310 says decide on an order 1614 01:16:56,320 --> 01:17:01,000 and if that decision doesn't result in a 1615 01:17:01,000 --> 01:17:03,560 change what's the point when you say 1616 01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,880 result in a change what does that mean 1617 01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:10,440 well again getting back to let's say the 1618 01:17:10,440 --> 01:17:12,560 Planning and Zoning administrator issues 1619 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:14,960 an order to a 1620 01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:17,159 developer and this and and that 1621 01:17:17,159 --> 01:17:20,480 developer comes to this 1622 01:17:20,480 --> 01:17:23,520 board and argues that the order was an 1623 01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:27,199 error because of some 1624 01:17:27,199 --> 01:17:29,719 misinterpretation and this board decides 1625 01:17:29,719 --> 01:17:32,400 that that order would should not have 1626 01:17:32,400 --> 01:17:36,199 been issued because of a 1627 01:17:36,199 --> 01:17:38,880 misinterpretation that we cannot go back 1628 01:17:38,880 --> 01:17:41,600 to that to the to the 1629 01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,239 administrator to say reverse the order 1630 01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:46,080 withdraw the order I want to make sure 1631 01:17:46,080 --> 01:17:48,239 we understand exactly what you're saying 1632 01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:51,360 okay because in this case it was not the 1633 01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:53,679 Zone administrator it was Town Council 1634 01:17:53,679 --> 01:17:55,960 who issued the order 1635 01:17:55,960 --> 01:17:58,719 I talking about a general case I'm not 1636 01:17:58,719 --> 01:18:00,239 talking 1637 01:18:00,239 --> 01:18:03,719 about necessarily this particular case 1638 01:18:03,719 --> 01:18:06,480 and and and I agree with you okay if 1639 01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:08,639 indeed the zoning 1640 01:18:08,639 --> 01:18:11,760 administrator has an application and uh 1641 01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:15,000 and he makes a decision okay that is the 1642 01:18:15,000 --> 01:18:18,560 purpose of the board of appeals is to 1643 01:18:18,560 --> 01:18:21,719 for to have uh the public or the 1644 01:18:21,719 --> 01:18:25,600 applicant over uh uh make that decision 1645 01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:27,679 as opposed to the zoning administrator's 1646 01:18:27,679 --> 01:18:30,840 decision in essence to show hardship or 1647 01:18:30,840 --> 01:18:32,440 in essence that in essence you would 1648 01:18:32,440 --> 01:18:34,920 have the ability to in essence have them 1649 01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:37,320 make that decision now again we're 1650 01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:38,840 talking General right we're not talking 1651 01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,760 about this case because once you insert 1652 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:44,880 Council changes all the rules okay but 1653 01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,760 the answer to your question is your 1654 01:18:46,760 --> 01:18:49,679 question is correct because that's what 1655 01:18:49,679 --> 01:18:52,040 the board of appeals is designed to do 1656 01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,120 is the zoning administrator in essence 1657 01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:57,560 to uh um have a remedy if they make a 1658 01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:00,760 decision but the problem is is this can 1659 01:19:00,760 --> 01:19:02,560 you order the zoning administrator which 1660 01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:05,600 I think is what you are making making 1661 01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:07,440 that thing can you order the zoning 1662 01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:08,760 administrator to take that other 1663 01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:12,320 decision no you would make the decision 1664 01:19:12,320 --> 01:19:16,870 and overrule them but you cannot order 1665 01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:20,159 them we overrule the 1666 01:19:20,159 --> 01:19:22,639 decision but we can't change the 1667 01:19:22,639 --> 01:19:24,480 decision by you cannot order them to 1668 01:19:24,480 --> 01:19:26,639 change it you can overrule it but you 1669 01:19:26,639 --> 01:19:28,880 cannot overrule them to change it I 1670 01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:30,560 don't understand the distinction oh 1671 01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:32,400 there's a huge distinction massive 1672 01:19:32,400 --> 01:19:35,120 distinction okay because in essence they 1673 01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:37,199 make a decision and then they have a 1674 01:19:37,199 --> 01:19:38,840 question and then they go to the board 1675 01:19:38,840 --> 01:19:42,600 of appeals in order to um you know uh 1676 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,159 determine if indeed there is a hardship 1677 01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:47,199 because that's what the board is 1678 01:19:47,199 --> 01:19:52,760 establishing hardships uh let's say somebody has a deck okay and 1679 01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,840 you guys see it all the time about 1680 01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:57,239 somebody saying you know I've got a deck 1681 01:19:57,239 --> 01:19:59,400 and all of a sudden it's and I have to 1682 01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,679 put it two feet into the setback okay 1683 01:20:02,679 --> 01:20:04,880 and it's a corner area and it's no big 1684 01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:07,280 deal and the neighbor says sure I like 1685 01:20:07,280 --> 01:20:09,360 my neighbor go ahead and put the deck in 1686 01:20:09,360 --> 01:20:11,639 there zoning administrator says I'm 1687 01:20:11,639 --> 01:20:14,159 sorry all I can do is follow the rules 1688 01:20:14,159 --> 01:20:16,120 okay I don't have the ability to do 1689 01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:18,400 variances then they come to the board of 1690 01:20:18,400 --> 01:20:21,360 appeals and say oh there's a hardship 1691 01:20:21,360 --> 01:20:23,639 okay because this deck has a couple of 1692 01:20:23,639 --> 01:20:27,520 feet that in essence and nobody cares 1693 01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:29,960 now you guys are uh are with the ability 1694 01:20:29,960 --> 01:20:32,920 to make that decision you can't tell the 1695 01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:34,239 zoning administrator to change because 1696 01:20:34,239 --> 01:20:35,719 they're required to follow the language 1697 01:20:35,719 --> 01:20:39,360 of the law deck in the in the setback 1698 01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:42,080 you can't have it but you guys can say 1699 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,480 deck okay we'll move it over what's the 1700 01:20:44,480 --> 01:20:47,000 big deal and and then it can be approved 1701 01:20:47,000 --> 01:20:48,440 can you order the zoning administrator 1702 01:20:48,440 --> 01:20:50,719 to do anything no can you make that 1703 01:20:50,719 --> 01:20:52,239 decision say yes we're going to grant 1704 01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:56,590 that variance yes 1705 01:20:56,600 --> 01:20:59,880 we cannot order a Planning and Zoning 1706 01:20:59,880 --> 01:21:04,080 administrator to withdraw an order oh no 1707 01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,679 I mean no absolutely not we can decide 1708 01:21:06,679 --> 01:21:08,159 in order but we can't tell them to 1709 01:21:08,159 --> 01:21:10,040 withdraw the order absolutely because in 1710 01:21:10,040 --> 01:21:11,280 essence what you're doing is you're 1711 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,080 going to say hey you can hey you know 1712 01:21:14,080 --> 01:21:15,600 you interpret the law however you want 1713 01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:17,679 to interpret it you can violate the law 1714 01:21:17,679 --> 01:21:20,280 if you want to you know no if you want 1715 01:21:20,280 --> 01:21:22,520 to do that that's what your power is 1716 01:21:22,520 --> 01:21:24,280 okay you can't order somebody else to do 1717 01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:26,120 anything 1718 01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:35,830 I have no further 1719 01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,199 questions some questions and 1720 01:21:38,199 --> 01:21:41,639 clarifications um you stated that the 1721 01:21:41,639 --> 01:21:44,000 case that brought us all here is still 1722 01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,679 pending because you didn't agree to it 1723 01:21:46,679 --> 01:21:49,120 absolutely can you like we had an order 1724 01:21:49,120 --> 01:21:51,880 to start this so how is it still pending 1725 01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:53,719 oh because I I never consented to any of 1726 01:21:53,719 --> 01:21:56,280 this and the judge the judge said you 1727 01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,080 know judge wanted to dismiss it and I 1728 01:21:58,080 --> 01:21:59,440 said absolutely not because if you 1729 01:21:59,440 --> 01:22:01,560 dismiss it it's going to require me to 1730 01:22:01,560 --> 01:22:04,639 immediately file an appeal because this 1731 01:22:04,639 --> 01:22:06,880 is my belief that this whole process was 1732 01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,560 inappropriate and wrong to begin with so 1733 01:22:09,560 --> 01:22:11,719 it is still pending Mr Blitz and I have 1734 01:22:11,719 --> 01:22:14,639 had what six continuances five whatever 1735 01:22:14,639 --> 01:22:16,360 we got another one coming up in another 1736 01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:18,560 hearing coming up in November which I'll 1737 01:22:18,560 --> 01:22:20,480 speak to him about continuing that 1738 01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:22,120 depending on where we are with that so 1739 01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:30,270 but the case is still pending 1740 01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:33,600 um you stated also that several 1741 01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:36,560 officials Town officials had sent us 1742 01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,159 letters right saying that we didn't have 1743 01:22:38,159 --> 01:22:39,920 the right to tell them what to do 1744 01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:43,320 paraphrasing right um so if it were 1745 01:22:43,320 --> 01:22:46,120 determined that the code just say did 1746 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,840 say that whatever else code what code I 1747 01:22:48,840 --> 01:22:52,080 mean like the just um the ordinance 1748 01:22:52,080 --> 01:22:54,000 whatever the whatever our rule or 1749 01:22:54,000 --> 01:22:56,040 whatever our rights are here let's just 1750 01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:58,840 say the the TR the legal interpretation 1751 01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,239 says we can are you saying that because 1752 01:23:01,239 --> 01:23:04,320 a town official said we can't that 1753 01:23:04,320 --> 01:23:07,719 suedes it I'm telling you say that well 1754 01:23:07,719 --> 01:23:10,320 no you were saying you were saying that 1755 01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:13,040 individuals Town Administrator Town 1756 01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,000 Council you said people individuals 1757 01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:22,709 wrote to us and told us we 1758 01:23:22,719 --> 01:23:26,239 can't say individuals you was based upon 1759 01:23:26,239 --> 01:23:27,760 who they are that's right right I was 1760 01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:29,920 just wondering if you felt that they had 1761 01:23:29,920 --> 01:23:32,000 more PLL than than the legal 1762 01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:34,960 interpretation of what is actually in 1763 01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:36,920 writing they might be the same they 1764 01:23:36,920 --> 01:23:38,320 might be the same I'm just asking you 1765 01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:39,600 because you told us because these 1766 01:23:39,600 --> 01:23:40,840 individuals said 1767 01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:44,239 so leg interpretation I'm not saying 1768 01:23:44,239 --> 01:23:46,520 that I'm saying what you said is that 1769 01:23:46,520 --> 01:23:48,560 these individuals told us we cannot and 1770 01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,840 therefore we cannot are 1771 01:23:50,840 --> 01:23:53,880 they you have a legal interpretation 1772 01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:57,280 that indeed you have the authority to do 1773 01:23:57,280 --> 01:24:01,159 that okay and if you read you know the 1774 01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:04,320 ordinances and so forth and the statute 1775 01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:05,679 that you know has been cited that we've 1776 01:24:05,679 --> 01:24:11,520 been talking about in ordinance okay in nauseum if you read it it doesn't say 1777 01:24:11,520 --> 01:24:12,800 that you have the authority okay not 1778 01:24:12,800 --> 01:24:14,880 answering my question no no no I I am 1779 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:17,280 but the question is you know you're 1780 01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:19,280 asking me to make the assumption that 1781 01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:21,760 indeed legally you have the ability to 1782 01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:25,679 do that legally you don't so so uh 1783 01:24:25,679 --> 01:24:29,280 indeed if you think you do great okay 1784 01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:30,880 then I was going to say what's going to 1785 01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:32,679 happen is when you issue your order 1786 01:24:32,679 --> 01:24:34,600 you're going to have to in essence say 1787 01:24:34,600 --> 01:24:36,280 yes legally we have this ability and 1788 01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:39,639 authority to do this XYZ okay it's going 1789 01:24:39,639 --> 01:24:42,119 to come to me I'm going to review it to 1790 01:24:42,119 --> 01:24:44,320 make sure that indeed in my opinion that 1791 01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:46,480 indeed you do have the authority and 1792 01:24:46,480 --> 01:24:48,760 then I'm going to present it to the to Z 1793 01:24:48,760 --> 01:24:50,960 administrator okay but I'm not conceding 1794 01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:53,480 at all that you have the authority to 1795 01:24:53,480 --> 01:24:55,679 begin with at all that wasn't my 1796 01:24:55,679 --> 01:24:56,880 question my question was about the 1797 01:24:56,880 --> 01:24:59,400 individuals but okay okay go ahead the 1798 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,639 individual no I've asked and you have 1799 01:25:01,639 --> 01:25:03,360 not answered but okay now please ask ask 1800 01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:04,760 again and I'll see if I can do you were 1801 01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:07,119 just stating that they said no and 1802 01:25:07,119 --> 01:25:08,760 therefore the answer was no that we 1803 01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:12,760 could not do this so do they have are 1804 01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:15,679 they the legal say so as to what we can 1805 01:25:15,679 --> 01:25:17,840 and cannot do that's interesting okay 1806 01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:19,560 and you're you're saying that they said 1807 01:25:19,560 --> 01:25:22,199 no so you have to follow them okay 1808 01:25:22,199 --> 01:25:25,239 that's what I heard you say Okay um 1809 01:25:25,239 --> 01:25:28,679 uh I'm what I in essence in saying that 1810 01:25:28,679 --> 01:25:31,119 you have been informed that their 1811 01:25:31,119 --> 01:25:33,280 position is that you have that you 1812 01:25:33,280 --> 01:25:36,040 cannot okay their position okay so the 1813 01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,560 question then becomes this if you engage 1814 01:25:38,560 --> 01:25:41,280 in conduct that in essence when you have 1815 01:25:41,280 --> 01:25:43,840 been fully informed that inessence of 1816 01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,679 that and you decide to issue an order 1817 01:25:46,679 --> 01:25:49,360 okay which can be viewed as harmful to 1818 01:25:49,360 --> 01:25:51,920 the public then the question is with 1819 01:25:51,920 --> 01:25:53,760 full knowledge as to what you've been 1820 01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:56,800 informed by the Town Council then I was 1821 01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,400 going to say I want to make sure you're 1822 01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:00,960 aware as to where we possibly could be 1823 01:26:00,960 --> 01:26:03,239 going with that okay because you have 1824 01:26:03,239 --> 01:26:05,960 been informed that that in essence you 1825 01:26:05,960 --> 01:26:07,679 don't have the authority now if you're 1826 01:26:07,679 --> 01:26:10,360 saying you do great get some legal 1827 01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:14,280 opinions from Mr susman okay because I 1828 01:26:14,280 --> 01:26:16,320 can assure you you ask me a question I'm 1829 01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:17,880 gonna give you a direct answer it ain't 1830 01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,040 G to stop here okay so it's going to be 1831 01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:24,320 yes Mr susman has the authority and that 1832 01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:26,239 this board has that authority to 1833 01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:28,600 overrule decisions of Town Council which 1834 01:26:28,600 --> 01:26:31,840 in essence is what this whole proceeding 1835 01:26:31,840 --> 01:26:34,000 is 1836 01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,639 about okay moving on um so you said that 1837 01:26:38,639 --> 01:26:42,199 um in regards to taking oath Mr Blitz 1838 01:26:42,199 --> 01:26:44,400 changed his mind when did that 1839 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:46,760 occur you referenced that it occurred 1840 01:26:46,760 --> 01:26:48,960 but can you tell us exactly when what 1841 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:52,199 point you're referring to were it 1842 01:26:52,199 --> 01:26:54,679 happened at a meeting in which he got up 1843 01:26:54,679 --> 01:26:57,360 and he said I'm not under oath I was 1844 01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,400 never under oath 1845 01:26:59,400 --> 01:27:03,440 and therefore I'm not under oath okay I 1846 01:27:03,440 --> 01:27:05,440 just thought we might have that spe I 1847 01:27:05,440 --> 01:27:07,280 understand we we all were I just thought 1848 01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:08,880 perhaps you had it in your notes as to 1849 01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:10,760 exactly when it 1850 01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,199 happened go through my notes 1851 01:27:14,199 --> 01:27:16,239 but off the top of my head I don't 1852 01:27:16,239 --> 01:27:17,880 remember that but it was I can tell you 1853 01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:20,840 this he was at the end of his 1854 01:27:20,840 --> 01:27:25,760 presentation um so 1855 01:27:25,760 --> 01:27:28,239 the abilities that this group has and 1856 01:27:28,239 --> 01:27:31,360 how we vote on different issues that 1857 01:27:31,360 --> 01:27:35,800 come to us um when those are modified or 1858 01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,320 created or whatnot who is the final say 1859 01:27:38,320 --> 01:27:40,760 so I this all happened before I got here 1860 01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:42,520 but do you have to sign off on all that 1861 01:27:42,520 --> 01:27:45,600 for the legality of for the town's sake 1862 01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:49,320 as to what happens what 1863 01:27:49,320 --> 01:27:51,520 basic 1864 01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:53,760 do if the board of appeals is going to 1865 01:27:53,760 --> 01:27:56,400 issue an order and it's slop okay I'm 1866 01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:57,400 not going to sit there and listen to 1867 01:27:57,400 --> 01:27:59,360 slop watch slop what I'm 1868 01:27:59,360 --> 01:28:02,520 asking that when when there are 1869 01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:04,280 different rules that we have to adhere 1870 01:28:04,280 --> 01:28:06,320 to and 1871 01:28:06,320 --> 01:28:09,080 um I don't have anything in front of me 1872 01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,480 um but whether it's you know how many 1873 01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:14,199 people are on this board right how we go 1874 01:28:14,199 --> 01:28:16,360 through these hearings different 1875 01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,280 situations like that right these are 1876 01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:21,280 this is a legal thing so being the 1877 01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:23,520 attorney for the town is that in your 1878 01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:26,480 purview to look at all the rules for the 1879 01:28:26,480 --> 01:28:30,280 different boards and committees to see 1880 01:28:30,280 --> 01:28:32,360 if they're if we're following processes 1881 01:28:32,360 --> 01:28:35,719 that are legal or no o over overturn 1882 01:28:35,719 --> 01:28:39,040 sure but in essence Mr susman is the 1883 01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:45,000 board's lawyer okay so in essence on on just to make sure that indeed Things 1884 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,280 Are Not Unusual sure sure I've reviewed 1885 01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:49,560 all the rules for all of the all the 1886 01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:51,480 administrative boards you know in the 1887 01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:53,840 town sure okay well because you stated 1888 01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:55,920 that whether there's three of us that 1889 01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:58,040 Vote or five of us that vote it's all 1890 01:28:58,040 --> 01:29:01,480 wrong um so that implies that the very 1891 01:29:01,480 --> 01:29:03,520 basis 1892 01:29:03,520 --> 01:29:08,880 of our being is flawed no and I'm just 1893 01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:11,760 wondering how then are you interpreting 1894 01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:14,000 that whether it's three or five or wrong 1895 01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:18,440 no no if indeed there was uh evidence 1896 01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:20,800 which was been presented and in essence 1897 01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:23,040 because a couple of members didn't make 1898 01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,719 proceedings then yes uh it would be 1899 01:29:25,719 --> 01:29:27,239 three that would have to make the 1900 01:29:27,239 --> 01:29:29,840 decision okay because U you know Mr 1901 01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:32,320 sesman and I discussed it early on 1902 01:29:32,320 --> 01:29:34,440 because in essence uh the code does not 1903 01:29:34,440 --> 01:29:36,119 permit you to go watch it on the video 1904 01:29:36,119 --> 01:29:40,320 tape okay but the problem is that now 1905 01:29:40,320 --> 01:29:43,280 when they in Ence I've changed my mind 1906 01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:46,440 for that almost what 30 some hours of 1907 01:29:46,440 --> 01:29:49,520 was it testimony or evidence or whatever 1908 01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,159 it is what was it I don't know okay but 1909 01:29:53,159 --> 01:29:54,639 what's important is 1910 01:29:54,639 --> 01:29:57,800 we don't know what it is so in essence 1911 01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:00,199 you're not held by that standard anymore 1912 01:30:00,199 --> 01:30:02,040 because in essence we don't know what 1913 01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:04,560 evidence or testimony came in didn't 1914 01:30:04,560 --> 01:30:07,119 come in was applicable not applicable 1915 01:30:07,119 --> 01:30:09,719 nobody knows anymore because that's the 1916 01:30:09,719 --> 01:30:11,880 way the hearing preceded now the 1917 01:30:11,880 --> 01:30:14,199 question is because we don't know 1918 01:30:14,199 --> 01:30:16,239 whatever that 1919 01:30:16,239 --> 01:30:19,199 was where does that leave the board I 1920 01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:21,840 don't know okay and I can tell you one 1921 01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:25,000 way or the other who knows uh and I can 1922 01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:26,199 tell you I have never heard of a 1923 01:30:26,199 --> 01:30:29,320 situation in which what happened never 1924 01:30:29,320 --> 01:30:31,639 even heard of it so in 1925 01:30:31,639 --> 01:30:35,080 Ence however happened then I would say 1926 01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:37,600 part of that's going to have to be yes 1927 01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:41,360 we have the ability to vote this way 1928 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:44,280 but I can tell you it is not it is not 1929 01:30:44,280 --> 01:30:47,320 going to be enforced one way or the 1930 01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:49,520 other okay and I was going to say it's 1931 01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:51,400 going to have to be some type of Appel 1932 01:30:51,400 --> 01:30:52,880 of Judges come up because I I've never 1933 01:30:52,880 --> 01:30:56,229 even heard of a case like that 1934 01:30:56,239 --> 01:31:00,270 right thanks for the 1935 01:31:00,280 --> 01:31:05,270 clarifications any further questions Mr 1936 01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:08,239 pounds okay thank you Mr pounds okay and 1937 01:31:08,239 --> 01:31:10,360 I can tell you Mr chair you know I'm I'm 1938 01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:12,800 somebody who is believes in being open 1939 01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:13,719 you know we're going to have another 1940 01:31:13,719 --> 01:31:16,159 hearing on what I think is the 13th if 1941 01:31:16,159 --> 01:31:17,560 somebody has another 1942 01:31:17,560 --> 01:31:20,600 question I'll answer it okay I mean so I 1943 01:31:20,600 --> 01:31:22,119 mean I'm not going to sit there and say 1944 01:31:22,119 --> 01:31:24,199 this is it it's all done I mean just you 1945 01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:27,679 know I'm here I'll be available it works 1946 01:31:27,679 --> 01:31:31,159 okay um is there any other business 1947 01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:34,159 actually let me I have a point if you're 1948 01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:36,560 ready to hear it yeah so there was a lot 1949 01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:39,320 of discussion about an 1950 01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:41,880 issue there was a lot of discussion just 1951 01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:44,239 now about an issue that I have no idea 1952 01:31:44,239 --> 01:31:47,040 what it is and why it's being talked 1953 01:31:47,040 --> 01:31:48,560 about and apparently there's been 1954 01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,199 discussions outside the context of this 1955 01:31:51,199 --> 01:31:54,040 hearing about the number of people who 1956 01:31:54,040 --> 01:31:56,199 can vote on this thing that was never 1957 01:31:56,199 --> 01:31:57,920 brought up and discussed and you haven't 1958 01:31:57,920 --> 01:32:00,679 heard my input on that point so what are 1959 01:32:00,679 --> 01:32:02,679 we talking about apparently there's some 1960 01:32:02,679 --> 01:32:06,480 issue that hasn't been part of the 1961 01:32:06,480 --> 01:32:08,719 record this is a proceeding issue all 1962 01:32:08,719 --> 01:32:11,480 this Mr Mr Suman would you like to 1963 01:32:11,480 --> 01:32:14,159 summarize the issue Mr Bliss is that 1964 01:32:14,159 --> 01:32:18,440 under the uh town code uh a decision of 1965 01:32:18,440 --> 01:32:21,600 the board had to be made by uh a 1966 01:32:21,600 --> 01:32:24,040 majority of the entire board who 1967 01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:30,030 attended the 1968 01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,159 proceedings and just for clarification 1969 01:32:32,159 --> 01:32:34,040 so Mr susman and I haven't had any 1970 01:32:34,040 --> 01:32:36,280 expart communication he was sitting up 1971 01:32:36,280 --> 01:32:38,119 there and we said how many the number 1972 01:32:38,119 --> 01:32:42,760 and I looked at him I said three and he nodded so that's how that is all 1973 01:32:42,760 --> 01:32:45,840 the discussions he and I have had on 1974 01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:50,239 it okay so at some point I'm going to do 1975 01:32:50,239 --> 01:32:53,600 a my opinion on that that issue or do 1976 01:32:53,600 --> 01:32:56,639 you not even need my op no I welcome it 1977 01:32:56,639 --> 01:32:58,679 I mean I I welcome Mr blitz's opinion 1978 01:32:58,679 --> 01:33:01,880 and um send me a copy too I mean so I 1979 01:33:01,880 --> 01:33:04,199 can review that so yes I'm not gonna 1980 01:33:04,199 --> 01:33:05,560 provide it in writing I'm gon provide it 1981 01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:08,320 to the board in in an open 1982 01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:11,880 meeting maybe uh provided at the next 1983 01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,840 meeting yes that's what I would 1984 01:33:14,840 --> 01:33:18,719 suggest what what provision of the town 1985 01:33:18,719 --> 01:33:20,920 code you don't you if you don't know 1986 01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:22,840 then don't I'll look I don't have it 1987 01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,000 right here in front of me in the 1988 01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:35,109 board's describing the board's Authority 1989 01:33:35,119 --> 01:33:38,800 yes thank you okay um so we are 1990 01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:40,560 announcing the next meeting which is 1991 01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:44,800 November 13 2024 at 6:30 p.m. um because 1992 01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:46,639 we have concluded uh the town's 1993 01:33:46,639 --> 01:33:48,480 presentation and questioning this 1994 01:33:48,480 --> 01:33:50,280 session will be a dedicated meeting to 1995 01:33:50,280 --> 01:33:52,840 receive public comments if members of 1996 01:33:52,840 --> 01:33:54,639 the public would like to be heard and 1997 01:33:54,639 --> 01:33:57,080 November 13th 6:30 p.m. is when they 1998 01:33:57,080 --> 01:34:00,480 should attend um that is all we will do 1999 01:34:00,480 --> 01:34:02,119 during that particular session if it's 2000 01:34:02,119 --> 01:34:03,960 five minutes if it's five minutes if it 2001 01:34:03,960 --> 01:34:08,600 goes on it goes on um okay uh is there 2002 01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:10,520 any other business before the board at 2003 01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:11,560 this 2004 01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,360 time hearing none I'll entertain a 2005 01:34:14,360 --> 01:34:15,480 motion to 2006 01:34:15,480 --> 01:34:18,480 adjourn I will make a motion to adjourn 2007 01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:21,639 second second all in favor hi meeting's 2008 01:34:21,639 --> 01:34:47,790 adour thank you 2009 01:34:47,800 --> 01:34:50,360 here presuming that we're going to need 2010 01:34:50,360 --> 01:34:53,159 a December me