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good okay uh welcome everybody this is

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the call to order for the chese beach

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board of appeals um this is March 6

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2025 uh we are here today to approve

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some meeting minutes and deliberate on

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case

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20233 um as normal we begin with a roll

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call for board members please announce

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if you are here uh Mr Paul dhy presid

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Miss Amy Everett pres I am Mr jod Hoon

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star we have a quorum um I'm going to go

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through and do a bulk meeting minutes

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approval um this would be for all the

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meeting minutes for case

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20233 for the minutes of October 21st

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2024 then January 15 2025 and that has

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both an open and close session um the

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February 3rd Special meeting which was

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to open and then go into a February 3D

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close

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session uh everyone cool with that okay

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um does anybody have any changes or

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issues with the minutes as they are as

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they've

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been okay in that case I will entertain

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a motion to approve uh the minutes in

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bulk I move to approve them in bulk I

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will second

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that everybody thank you okay we now

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move on to the board of appeals

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continuation uh as normal of case 20233

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Rod real Incorporated Donovan estate's

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LLC to consider an application from the

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rod re Incorporated Don states of 4160

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meor Avenue ches Beach Maryland for a

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decision on interpretation or leged

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error uh to article 6 section 29023 2931

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A1 and A6 of the Chesapeake Beach zoning

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ordinance and C309 c310 c311 of the

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Chesapeake Beach toown Charter uh

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applicant requests the Chesapeake Beach

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zoning board of appeals to quote order

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the zoning administrator and planning

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and zoning commission to immediately

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commence and prioritize the processing

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and review of the relevant site plan

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submitted by the rod uh Incorporated

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down in Estates uh and that the zoning

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administrator and planning and zoning

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commission be ordered to apply the

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zoning ordinances in effect as of

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January 29 20121 when the applications

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were submitted and for such other and

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further relief as the nature of the

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cause

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requires okay um before we open the

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deliberations I just want to do a

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couple uh announcements in terms of how

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this is going to go um according to uh

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section 2932 L uh at the close of our

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last public session uh we have 120

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calendar days um to uh to deliberate and

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uh reach a resolution on this case uh

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the hearing has been extensive and in

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order to comply with this 128 limit we

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reserved three dates for this board to

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deliberate um today March 6th um at 6:30

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Monday March 17 2025 at 6:30 p.m. and

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Monday March 31st 2025 is 6:30 um all we

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might not use all these sessions it's

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unclear if we'll need them uh they'll be

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for a maximum of two

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hours um and the goal of these three

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sessions is to ensure that our legal

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council has adequate time uh to work

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with whatever determination uh is made

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by this board um at any point in time

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just kind of just a note for our board

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members if you feel like uh you have are

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at capacity for this particular meeting

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or one on the 17th feel free to just

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kind of raise your hand and say let's

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take a pause you can come back again at

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one of the later dates so don't feel

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like you have to um you have to feel

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rushed or if you'd like to to go home

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and reread uh certain things uh it's we

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can we can close this down early um if you so would like uh okay yeah thank

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you y that sounds good we can do that um

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one more bit of administrative advice

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which I don't uh think

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applies um for the members here today uh

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some concerns have been brought to my

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attention about whether board members

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can participate and vote on this case if

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they have not been present at all

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sessions uh this stems from rule uh

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sorry section 2932 C3 which states that

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all actions or decisions of the board

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shall be taken by resolution in which

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three members present during the

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proceedings must concur concur um our

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folks with a legal background have

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stated this they believe that this means

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only board members who have attended all

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sessions for case 20233 can sign their

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name to the board's decision um by my

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count we've had 18 distinct meetings for

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this case uh it's been over 500 Days

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since the first hearing nearly a year

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and a half uh the rules that govern this

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board unsurprisingly don't handle

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situations like this well uh members of

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this board of volunteers who have

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dedicated significant time uh outside of

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their home and work to improve the town

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of ches beach as best they can um as we

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proceed if other members uh aside from

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us three uh should attend later sessions

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um it's my intent to allow them to vote

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as they see fit and in the event we end

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up in a split decision we will revisit

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how that applies to uh the 290 32c rule

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that was just read okay that's neither

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here nor there since all of us have

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attended um okay uh we are ready to

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begin deliberation at this point in time

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I would entertain a motion to begin

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deliberation I move to begin

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deliberation I'll second that all in

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favor okay

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um so I think the board has heard a lot

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over these past meetings um and the kind

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of the first thing thing I guess I would

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like to do is offer an open session to

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board members um I'd imagine this would

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be more along the lines of an informal

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narrative for your full understanding of what you've seen so far um you don't

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have to but we've been sitting quietly

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for a long time would you like to wrap

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up your interpretation of of what's

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happened here so far in a couple

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sentences or should we

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just not I don't think a couple

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sentences suffices so for me that

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doesn't really

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apply yeah

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I I I wrote a lot of notes here and it

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might be

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helpful I've got a little

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um I don't know what you want to call

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sequence of

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events right so let let me read this if

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I

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can

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um so the so the appal on submitted the

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site plans January 29th 19 or

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2021 and some of those plans were in the

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critical area the town

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code states that uh the commission the

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planning zoning commission must decide

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on a site plan in the critical are

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within 60

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days before that 60 days

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expired the Town Council passed a

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resolution placing a moratorium on

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review of category one site

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plans the moratorium was recommended by

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the Planning and Zoning commission as a

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temporary moratorium to last no more

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than 12 months

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the resolution passed by the Town

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Council also stated described it as

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temporary but with the expectation would

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last nine

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months um but then as the nine months

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was about to expire the Town Council

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took a positive action to extend it a

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three additional

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months that action implied to me that

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the moratorium was still viewed as

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temporary with a specific duration but

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then at the end of the 12 months it just

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continued with no action by the Council

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on the

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resolution so so at that point it

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appeared to me to have become a

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moratorium of indefinite duration with no end in

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sight it was not until a year later that

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the moratorium was formally lifted by

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the council so duration of approximately

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two

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years uh prior to that time the

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appellant attempted to have their case

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Ed by the board of

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appeals uh I believe it was in

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2022 um the their application for an

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appeal was was

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refused turned back and the appellant

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filed with the Circuit Court to obtain a

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court order to have this case

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heard so so in my mind that that it's an

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unusual chain of

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events the other thing the other

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statement I wanted to make is that you

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know reading a a close reading of the

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code that that empowers this

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board um specifically appeals of this

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type is that

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um we are empowered to rule on Errors By

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The by the administrator or

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Commission on determinations decisions

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or orders resulting from errors of

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interpretation of the zoning

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code when they are acting in

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administrative Capac

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capacity so it seems to me to to focus

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the

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discussion we should look at those

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points where a decision or action was

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made and whether that resulted from a

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misinterpretation of the

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code and then we can rule on

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that um in few words I agree with you um

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this doesn't really fit with the

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timeline of events but one of the things

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I'm I'm concerned about is kind of

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treating our decisions in like a domino

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effect right where if we

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decide

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that um there was an

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error that the Domino falls into places

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that we may not have oversight right

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like a Town Council decision or

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ordinance or

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resolution um those to me felt like they

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followed from a potential decision from

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either the

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administrator planning zoning but I'm

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very hesitant to let that domino fall

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and knock over for the ones that seem

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outside the scope of this board um does

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that make

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sense I'm not sure I'm following you so

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I'm I'm hesitant to make any

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determinations regarding ordinances and

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resolutions

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from the

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town I'm I'm not say like I'm my my view

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of it is is

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that our Focus or our

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Authority is limited to decisions

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actions made by the the the zoning

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administrator or the commission

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we have no say in any decisions or

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actions outside of

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that decisions and actions made by the

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Town Council by the

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mayor I I don't think that's within our

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jurisdiction so I

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think I think that you guys are I'm kind

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of tracking with both y'all in in

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different ways

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um but I think

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that we do need to look at a timeline

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and see what decisions were made

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decisions by the the Planning and Zoning

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administrator commission right um but we

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also need to look and see what actually

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is in our purview and that any of error

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or uh

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interpretation that we need to look into

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has to be within this chapter and so we

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need to determine if there are any if

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there are any decisions orders whatever

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that we will say that there was an error

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but then we also need need to make sure

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that we are staying within the chapter

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that we are zoning yeah Z yes and I

280
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,240
think that we need to decide if pieces

281
00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:53,399
and parts are relevant to our case as

282
00:12:53,399 --> 00:12:56,720
they might be outside of that

283
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,720
chapter right so

284
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,160
are are certain pieces of this

285
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,720
moratorium a resolution are they outside

286
00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,000
of the chapter and if they

287
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,040
are is that even in our purview so we

288
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,320
need to find those critical points see

289
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,279
if criteria is met and see if it even

290
00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:20,360
pertains to

291
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,160
us I I think there were two critical

292
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,360
points one is when the um when the plans

293
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,199
were first submitted in 2020

294
00:13:31,199 --> 00:13:34,360
21 the time period between when it was

295
00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,639
submitted and when the moratorium was

296
00:13:37,639 --> 00:13:40,079
passed by the

297
00:13:40,079 --> 00:13:43,829
council I think once

298
00:13:43,839 --> 00:13:46,440
the it was out of the hands of the

299
00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:48,199
zoning administrator out of the hands of

300
00:13:48,199 --> 00:13:50,560
the zoning

301
00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:52,920
commission so anything that happened

302
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,240
during that

303
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:59,310
moratorium I think is out of our purview

304
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,320
yeah and and our Focus the second point

305
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,360
is when the moratorium was

306
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:08,199
lifted that those were the two that

307
00:14:08,199 --> 00:14:10,360
stood out to me too was that that period

308
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,639
in which um prior to any discussion by

309
00:14:13,639 --> 00:14:15,000
the Town Council about

310
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,399
moratoriums uh how how the applications

311
00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:19,759
were

312
00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:23,959
handled um and then again if we believe

313
00:14:23,959 --> 00:14:26,800
that the moratorium expired um my my

314
00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:28,199
notes Here say that you could you could

315
00:14:28,199 --> 00:14:32,040
take this from two sides one is um that

316
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,800
yeah they the the Town Council got

317
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,519
together and voted and extended it and

318
00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:37,079
then those extensions

319
00:14:37,079 --> 00:14:40,120
expired um and that that might be uh

320
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,759
more from the perspective of the Roden

321
00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:44,639
reel and then the town might get

322
00:14:44,639 --> 00:14:45,639
together and

323
00:14:45,639 --> 00:14:49,120
say um that they it doesn't end until

324
00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:53,519
they voted on March 16th of 2023 to

325
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:55,480
actually formally terminate the

326
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:57,000
moratorium

327
00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,279
and it's it's a bit of

328
00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:04,120
a you know I don't really know what uh

329
00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,440
which ones

330
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:10,839
uh yeah yeah I I don't feel that that

331
00:15:10,839 --> 00:15:12,360
the

332
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,759
moratorium The Way It Was Written the

333
00:15:14,759 --> 00:15:18,269
wording I I don't

334
00:15:18,279 --> 00:15:20,240
think there would be there was an

335
00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:22,000
automatic

336
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,720
expiration you don't think it expired I

337
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,040
don't think it expired by itself okay I

338
00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,600
think it expired when the

339
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,759
Council passed the resolution in March

340
00:15:32,759 --> 00:15:35,839
of 20 lifting the

341
00:15:35,839 --> 00:15:40,309
moratorium

342
00:15:40,319 --> 00:15:43,800
okay in that case that takes away one of

343
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,399
my two the two points where I think we

344
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,880
had to consider something was the the

345
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,480
second of which was if the moratorium

346
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,160
expired and

347
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:55,800
the new zoning map and the implementing

348
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,399
ordinances weren't passed and there was

349
00:15:57,399 --> 00:16:00,519
a a gap between an expiration of a

350
00:16:00,519 --> 00:16:02,560
moratorium 9 months plus three however

351
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,920
you want to math it out and then the

352
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,839
pickup of the um the zoning changes that

353
00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:10,680
was one of my second kind of inflection

354
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,720
points

355
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,959
but yeah

356
00:16:14,959 --> 00:16:24,120
I can't say I feel strongly about

357
00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:30,230
either either argument

358
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,920
well let's talk about the the first

359
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,350
point in

360
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:41,389
time the this the site plans were

361
00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:44,000
submitted nothing happened with

362
00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,199
them as far as seven weeks before the

363
00:16:48,199 --> 00:16:50,959
moratorium so was there an error there

364
00:16:50,959 --> 00:16:53,000
on the part of the zoning administrator

365
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,160
with a

366
00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,560
commission was there an error of

367
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,360
interpretation what what is there an

368
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:05,480
action or a decision I I think although

369
00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,720
well a week after the site plans were

370
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,199
submitted zoning administrator sent out

371
00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:13,400
an

372
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:15,360
email

373
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:18,240
to the response letter there there it

374
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,079
was an email right to to um Paul

375
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:25,319
Woodburn with a cc to Mr

376
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:29,840
Blitz stating that the the site plans

377
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,080
were

378
00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,160
burdened a moratorium was being

379
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,600
considered I I think that's evidence of

380
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,360
a decision not to

381
00:17:39,360 --> 00:17:43,120
process the site plans at that

382
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:47,520
time so the question is it was that as a

383
00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,720
result of a misinterpretation of the

384
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,400
code yeah there was I can't remember the

385
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,120
line I'd have to it would take me some

386
00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:57,000
time to find it but there was also a

387
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,480
stipulation in

388
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,120
uh in the zoning was the ability of

389
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:07,240
Staff members to consult with additional

390
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:08,919
parties

391
00:18:08,919 --> 00:18:13,640
um was was jabak I mean we can read into

392
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,360
his letter that he had discussed what

393
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:18,280
was going on with other

394
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,120
parties um was he following his

395
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:26,120
guidelines in making an appeal to the

396
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:31,270
Town Council as part of his duy as was

397
00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:32,320
you

398
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,679
know can you repeat that again sorry um

399
00:18:35,679 --> 00:18:37,840
yeah when

400
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,919
um inferring from the letter uh let me

401
00:18:42,919 --> 00:18:44,520
pull the date

402
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,600
on uh 25 pretty much the the second

403
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:49,640
letter after the second event after the

404
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,000
site planes were submitted uh it read to

405
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,840
me that jabak had uh reached out to

406
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,200
other members of the town to maybe

407
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,039
discuss what was happening given his

408
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:07,039
workload and the plans for the um the

409
00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:08,520
comprehensive

410
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,039
plan and he went I'm inferring that he

411
00:19:12,039 --> 00:19:14,480
went and talked to them or sent them the

412
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,240
site plans or summarize the site

413
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,000
plans would that fall within his

414
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,320
authority to consult with

415
00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,000
external agencies or I think I think the

416
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,320
official language is to like consult

417
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,240
with agencies or staff would Consulting

418
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,640
the Town Council

419
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,919
concerning this the action that they

420
00:19:38,919 --> 00:19:44,679
then took I don't know if I can say that was an error or if that was within

421
00:19:44,679 --> 00:19:49,750
his scope of authority as the zoning

422
00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,400
administrator yeah it's there's a lot of

423
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,280
gray I'm not lay I don't remember any

424
00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,000
documentation yeah I don't think there

425
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,280
was I don't think there

426
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,960
was um did you say there

427
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,960
was I remember reading about that I have

428
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:08,240
to

429
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,200
go did you hear that I just said that I

430
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:12,640
remember reading that I just would have

431
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:14,400
to go back and look where that actually

432
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,240
was written um you summarize what you

433
00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:19,039
remember from that and we

434
00:20:19,039 --> 00:20:21,520
can just one the steps that they go and

435
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:26,520
consult with whatever I mean you have multiple plans to be looking

436
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:27,679
because you have to consult with

437
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:29,480
multiple people about what's happening

438
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,240
with the plan right in general I don't

439
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,710
remember what I read at the moment um

440
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:43,960
but do you believe that moment in that letter that was

441
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,159
written was a pivotal moment and I know

442
00:20:48,159 --> 00:20:50,159
let's called it a pivot pivotal moment

443
00:20:50,159 --> 00:20:53,600
he said it the beginning of so in that

444
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,080
regard the beginning of the what

445
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,440
refusal right

446
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,520
too much stuff so

447
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,760
um but would you then think it was an

448
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,159
error because of timing because of

449
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:13,840
obligation to look at it to what what

450
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,360
would cause that to be an error and I

451
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:19,080
I'm wondering because I know that the

452
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,240
60-day mark that was brought up in this

453
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,720
case that they were obligated to fulfill

454
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,279
this their duties within 60 days um that

455
00:21:28,279 --> 00:21:29,840
was critical

456
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:35,320
areas um and I still I still am not

457
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,000
convinced that that actually pertains to

458
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,279
all site one plans um because in the

459
00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:44,880
general Provisions it does not have any

460
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,640
type of time frame associated with it

461
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,840
and to think that crit those plans

462
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,200
within a critical area had a deadline

463
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:55,520
that was more so than others is kind of

464
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,000
strange to me but I just don't know if

465
00:21:58,000 --> 00:21:59,039
they were

466
00:21:59,039 --> 00:22:00,240
at least all five of them I don't know

467
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,760
if all five of them were required to

468
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,400
have that no yeah the the timing seemed

469
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,840
like a like maybe it wasn't a strict you

470
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:13,120
know but there's another aspect to it in

471
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,520
that there this a

472
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,559
60-day time

473
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:19,240
limit the

474
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,320
moratorium was imposed before that 60

475
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,640
days expired but was there a 60-day time

476
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,440
limit is what I'm is what I'm wondering

477
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:32,159
I don't Yeah the code uh see I don't

478
00:22:32,159 --> 00:22:33,320
know that it's that clear I didn't I

479
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,919
didn't read that that the my read of the

480
00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:40,200
code was section 290 d25 clearly says to

481
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,679
me that uh the commission must decide on

482
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:45,720
a site plan in the critical area within

483
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:47,039
60

484
00:22:47,039 --> 00:22:49,080
days

485
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,720
so the ENT if you look at the

486
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,360
entire if you look at the the the

487
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:59,080
chapter and you look at this article six

488
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,000
in its entirety everything is broken

489
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,000
into site one versus site two site one

490
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:07,279
versus site two um so I think that

491
00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:10,320
interpreting it yes it does say in that

492
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,200
statement it does say that they shall

493
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:15,159
approve a site plan within 60 days but

494
00:23:15,159 --> 00:23:17,440
it's also what is it that they're

495
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,559
referring to in there and if there's

496
00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:23,279
ambiguity in that I'm not saying that I

497
00:23:23,279 --> 00:23:25,960
need to be the person that determines

498
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,960
that wording but if you have a site one

499
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,200
plan that's not in a critical area and

500
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,039
then you have a site one plan that is in

501
00:23:33,039 --> 00:23:34,200
a critical

502
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,559
area to say that the one in the critical

503
00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:38,360
area needs to be processed within 60

504
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:40,360
days but the one with that's not in a

505
00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:42,720
critical area yeah I doesn't have a time

506
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,520
frame that doesn't make sense to me I

507
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,679
just don't think that it's all inclusive

508
00:23:46,679 --> 00:23:48,360
because it's only within the critical

509
00:23:48,360 --> 00:23:52,240
area section and each section divides it

510
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,880
between category one and category

511
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,760
two so I'm still I personally still do

512
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,760
not believe that this

513
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,480
is the absolute uh interpretation of

514
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,679
this piece well even even if the 60-day

515
00:24:09,679 --> 00:24:12,950
limit did

516
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,960
apply

517
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,480
technically because the moratorium was

518
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,360
put in place before the end of the 60

519
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:24,600
days technically there was not a

520
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,960
violation because once the moratorium

521
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,240
was in place

522
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,679
I don't think the administrator or the

523
00:24:30,679 --> 00:24:32,960
commission could do anything yeah I

524
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,960
think you could I mean not to there's a

525
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,200
lot of could have would a should of

526
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,760
things that that definitely could be

527
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:44,240
argued here but I'd have a if let's just

528
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,120
say

529
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:47,320
hypothetically that the moratorium was

530
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,520
passed and then Planning and Zoning got

531
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,360
up behind the lectern and said these

532
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:54,919
plans are denied due to the

533
00:24:54,919 --> 00:24:56,960
moratorium I'm not sure if I could find

534
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,640
an error in that

535
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:01,039
but I don't believe that happened it

536
00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:02,520
didn't happen it didn't happen right

537
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,679
that's the that's the like there's kind

538
00:25:04,679 --> 00:25:07,039
of like this implicit decision that was

539
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:10,000
made by having a

540
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,799
moratorium that that shortcut that I

541
00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,000
don't you know but maybe

542
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,840
that's I mean because of that because of

543
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,399
that sub you know the moratorium was put

544
00:25:21,399 --> 00:25:24,880
in place before the end of the 60

545
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,120
days I don't see an error of

546
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,830
interpretation

547
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,039
it was certainly an action I I believe a

548
00:25:33,039 --> 00:25:35,399
decision by the administrator not to

549
00:25:35,399 --> 00:25:41,990
process the plans in anticipation of the

550
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,799
moratorium yeah but but you know he had

551
00:25:44,799 --> 00:25:49,559
60 days and um seven weeks went by they

552
00:25:49,559 --> 00:25:54,520
didn't get processed but then bang the the clock

553
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,679
stopped so technically I don't see an

554
00:25:57,679 --> 00:25:59,559
error

555
00:25:59,559 --> 00:26:01,679
yeah and and

556
00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:06,919
I yeah an error on behalf of yeah his

557
00:26:06,919 --> 00:26:09,039
it's a narrow reading of

558
00:26:09,039 --> 00:26:13,320
it I realize but uh but you know also

559
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,799
I'm I don't know if I can um Council

560
00:26:17,799 --> 00:26:20,799
indicated to me in a conversation

561
00:26:20,799 --> 00:26:25,480
that 60 days isn't a hard

562
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,600
deadline because there's no um

563
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:36,919
stated in the code do I what I said was that it could be argued

564
00:26:36,919 --> 00:26:39,520
that the 60 days was directory and not

565
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,840
mandatory because uh there was no

566
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,159
sanctions for failure to uh comply with

567
00:26:46,159 --> 00:26:49,279
that 60-day time frame now I'm not

568
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:52,320
saying that's a a correct interpretation

569
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,559
but certainly is a uh viable

570
00:26:56,559 --> 00:26:58,440
interpretation and and you know it

571
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,320
doesn't the same thing applies to um

572
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,919
other site

573
00:27:02,919 --> 00:27:05,679
plans right

574
00:27:05,679 --> 00:27:08,679
there code the code doesn't have a time

575
00:27:08,679 --> 00:27:13,240
limit an explicit time limit for non-tic

576
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,039
site

577
00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:18,080
plans but then it also doesn't

578
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,919
say well I mean I guess it's a judgment

579
00:27:20,919 --> 00:27:24,600
call it has to be the plan should be

580
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,159
reviewed within a reasonable

581
00:27:27,159 --> 00:27:30,520
time there's no definition of that

582
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,640
code so in the event that there is not

583
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,559
an obligation to have a time period

584
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:38,159
associated with

585
00:27:38,159 --> 00:27:41,470
it

586
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,039
was was the letter from jacc at that

587
00:27:45,039 --> 00:27:47,480
point then the question would be is it a

588
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,960
decision and was that decision was could

589
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:51,360
it have been attributed to error if

590
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,120
there was no timeline associated with it

591
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,240
right I'm just looking at it both ways

592
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,519
could since with that point

593
00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:04,640
but I mean yeah it's there's so many

594
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,799
directions I mean it's

595
00:28:06,799 --> 00:28:09,880
like they submitted their site plans and

596
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,120
didn't get an approval or denial they

597
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,120
got something that looked like a

598
00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,399
denial is that like wasn't official it

599
00:28:18,399 --> 00:28:20,480
didn't have signatures on it I don't

600
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,240
know if it matters no I don't agree with

601
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:25,240
that I don't think it you could call it

602
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:26,600
a

603
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,789
denial um

604
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:35,960
yeah could could not yeah I don't think I could call it a denial

605
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,919
it's just a lack of action

606
00:28:38,919 --> 00:28:45,950
okay not an not a denial not an

607
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,200
approval

608
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,080
yeah I mean does yeah I I don't I don't

609
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,919
really want to Devil's Advocate the

610
00:28:52,919 --> 00:28:55,710
whole thing

611
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,000
but okay so I mean head back to decision

612
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,600
points the second decision point was

613
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,600
when the mor torum was

614
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,279
lifted to

615
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:12,399
rehear the to reopen this again the the site plans as they were submitted

616
00:29:12,399 --> 00:29:15,240
site plans review of the site plans was

617
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,279
not picked

618
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:21,080
up now was there an error involved there

619
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,679
error Mis interpretation of the

620
00:29:24,679 --> 00:29:28,679
code was there a decision not to not to

621
00:29:28,679 --> 00:29:30,399
review the

622
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:35,990
plans that's a little less clear to

623
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,399
me can I thr another Wrinkle In go for

624
00:29:38,399 --> 00:29:40,880
it yeah so um

625
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,960
jaak's letter stated two things though

626
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:49,120
um it stated that it was a an undue

627
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,399
burden to the commission because they

628
00:29:52,399 --> 00:29:54,600
were in the middle of the comprehensive

629
00:29:54,600 --> 00:30:02,320
plan so when the comprehensive plan was approved is that a point because I

630
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,799
mean this really that letter if that is

631
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:07,279
the beginning of the refusal was two

632
00:30:07,279 --> 00:30:09,440
prongs it was the comprehensive plan

633
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,279
plus an upcoming moratorium which One

634
00:30:12,279 --> 00:30:16,840
jacu X letter exhibit 7 the February 5th

635
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,440
letter that said hey this is too much

636
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,240
for us to

637
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,360
do so there were two things that

638
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,640
happened there so in my opinion I made

639
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:28,760
note

640
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:30,440
that the comprehensive plan was approved

641
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,279
later on and that could

642
00:30:32,279 --> 00:30:35,440
be you remember what date that was my

643
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,269
note say April 21st

644
00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:42,440
2022

645
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,519
April was

646
00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:50,110
421

647
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,399
22 so just to throw something else in

648
00:30:53,399 --> 00:30:56,789
there

649
00:30:56,799 --> 00:30:58,480
thanks um

650
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,039
I mean like I kind of I I still like I

651
00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:04,559
feel like it all still comes back to the

652
00:31:04,559 --> 00:31:08,960
first event of not of of making a

653
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:10,600
decision not to approve or deny the

654
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:12,960
initial thing to kind of put it in this

655
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,240
gray

656
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,399
Zone um in which then led to the second

657
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:19,840
point which is since it was neither

658
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,519
approved or denied is it still open and

659
00:31:22,519 --> 00:31:26,399
should be reop you know I feel

660
00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:29,480
yeah but I think think part of what's

661
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,919
getting me about this is that

662
00:31:32,919 --> 00:31:39,360
um the error is stated as um a Continuum

663
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,440
um that it is from January 29th 2021

664
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:49,559
till the date of the appeal so can can

665
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:53,519
an error occur over that time period or

666
00:31:53,519 --> 00:31:55,600
is there a single event in which we are

667
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:57,080
actually talking about so I was thinking

668
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:58,559
about this one today

669
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:00,919
and uh and I came up with an example and

670
00:32:00,919 --> 00:32:03,039
I'm going to I'm going to use our legal

671
00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:04,159
counsel and I'm going to say Fred you

672
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:06,399
can you can holler me if I get this way

673
00:32:06,399 --> 00:32:10,440
off if I'm GNA do a crime I'm gonna

674
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,279
extort Fred right um extort I'm going to

675
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:15,960
extort you I'm going to say give me a

676
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:18,240
bucket of money or I'm going to the

677
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,159
cops the harm and benefit would be

678
00:32:21,159 --> 00:32:23,960
ongoing you'd be out of your money and

679
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,480
I've got it but if this ever goes to

680
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,840
court um I think if it's a statute of

681
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,919
limitation things I only extorted you on

682
00:32:31,919 --> 00:32:35,240
one time right it's not like an ongoing

683
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:37,600
extortion I have your money which is the

684
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:39,840
harm and you're out of your money or

685
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,440
sorry you're out of the money which is

686
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,200
your harm and I have your money it's my

687
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,880
benefit but that still doesn't mean it's

688
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,159
an ongoing thing right it happened one

689
00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:51,200
time and I think that

690
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,799
means I don't know in this case it would

691
00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:56,320
be that that decision point was the

692
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,320
thing that would set something like a

693
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,120
statute of limitations where even if the

694
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,120
harm and benefit are still ongoing so I

695
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:06,679
guess that's a round about way of saying

696
00:33:06,679 --> 00:33:10,679
an example of how I don't really buy an

697
00:33:10,679 --> 00:33:13,600
ongoing event that the harm is ongoing

698
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,600
but the event itself happened

699
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,039
on either the date that jabak sent the

700
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:22,880
letter back or the date that the

701
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:24,840
moratorium was passed however you want

702
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,960
to whichever whichever time frame you

703
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,519
think was the decision point there I

704
00:33:29,519 --> 00:33:31,760
think that's the

705
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,320
uh that's the event

706
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:39,159
right so that maybe says that it doesn't

707
00:33:39,159 --> 00:33:41,760
reopen if in the second inflection point

708
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,830
that you're talking about I don't

709
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,440
know well the question is should when

710
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,519
the moratorium was lifted should the

711
00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:53,039
zoning

712
00:33:53,039 --> 00:33:55,440
administrator have picked up review of

713
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,830
the site plans

714
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:00,639
he

715
00:34:00,639 --> 00:34:03,519
didn't should should he

716
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:06,200
have there was a lot going on right the

717
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,839
comprehensive

718
00:34:07,839 --> 00:34:10,639
plan

719
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:16,310
um well actually the comprehensive plan already been

720
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:18,599
passed but there was a lot of change

721
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:20,079
there's a lot of code changes that were

722
00:34:20,079 --> 00:34:21,839
occurring ordinance ordinances being

723
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:23,839
pass to implement it but they had

724
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:26,399
already returned the fees and for all

725
00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:28,280
intents purposes believe believed it was

726
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,960
done so what was what were they supposed

727
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,879
to pick up at that time well well that's a good point because there was no

728
00:34:35,879 --> 00:34:38,960
there was formly no application in

729
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,200
place I think that one's fairly easy and

730
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:43,639
that

731
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:45,800
it it shouldn't have been I I don't see

732
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,320
an error in not picking it up because

733
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:50,200
from the administrator's perspective it

734
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,839
was the issue was closed the event was

735
00:34:52,839 --> 00:34:56,000
done there was an attempt by the

736
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,240
appellant to

737
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,320
have

738
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,720
the plans

739
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:05,079
reviewed during the

740
00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:08,040
moratorium and that was rejected if I'm

741
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:14,470
if I remember

742
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,680
correctly I may be misre misremembering

743
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,680
there was there was an

744
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,040
event maybe it was the maybe it was an

745
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,119
appeal application the it was an

746
00:35:25,119 --> 00:35:26,640
application for the

747
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,480
appeal submitted in 2022 while the

748
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,280
moratorium was still in

749
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,440
place yeah I think I believe that's what

750
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:36,950
I'm thinking

751
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:42,119
of so the

752
00:35:42,119 --> 00:35:45,119
yeah

753
00:35:45,119 --> 00:35:47,560
um yeah because the appeal application

754
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,359
was filed June 24th

755
00:35:50,359 --> 00:35:52,200
2022 right so that's what you're

756
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:58,190
thinking of right yeah

757
00:35:58,200 --> 00:35:59,640
thought I

758
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:04,589
remembered an attempt to have

759
00:36:04,599 --> 00:36:06,880
the plans

760
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,119
reviewed or a request to have the plans

761
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:13,400
reviewed yeah so sometime after that

762
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,079
sometime after the moratorium is lifted

763
00:36:16,079 --> 00:36:18,839
so um I have in my notes the

764
00:36:18,839 --> 00:36:21,839
comprehensive plan was um approved April

765
00:36:21,839 --> 00:36:23,079
21st

766
00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:27,160
2022 on May uh um yeah May 20th a month

767
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,839
later Blitz wrote a letter um to

768
00:36:30,839 --> 00:36:32,359
planning zoning administrator and

769
00:36:32,359 --> 00:36:36,240
commission to have the plans reviewed it

770
00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:40,000
was that letter that was the response

771
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,280
two days later come came from um

772
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:48,400
pounds and he cced wall on that letter

773
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,960
um I can I have it in here somewhere

774
00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,160
which um exhibits they are um but there

775
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,119
was no indication in that letter that he

776
00:36:57,119 --> 00:36:58,040
was speaking

777
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,359
on behalf of the Planning and Zoning

778
00:37:00,359 --> 00:37:03,040
administrator nor the commissioner or

779
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:06,280
commission um and so he responded and

780
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,680
that's when he's like oh it's indefinite

781
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:15,000
um so that happened um and then

782
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:20,640
uh so so then June 3 um Blitz wrote

783
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,359
another letter two pounds asking who

784
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:25,200
that letter was on behalf of and no

785
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,720
response was received three weeks after

786
00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,200
that the appeal application

787
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,280
occurred okay so two events what was

788
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,680
that first date again of which the

789
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,480
letter that requesting the review yes

790
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,030
May 20th

791
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,680
2022 so that's actually in this timeline

792
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:52,270
right here

793
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,790
too right

794
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,990
okay so in in my

795
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,560
opinion that's that's

796
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,920
when if we're saying that the moratorium

797
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,240
expired with pivotal Point whatever

798
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,280
else because in order in order to file

799
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,640
the appeal you have to you have to have

800
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,480
your concern brought up with the pl and

801
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,480
zonian administrator right so

802
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,880
um that could have occurred after the

803
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,680
jcbc letter in February 2020

804
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,839
right um or it could have occurred at

805
00:38:31,839 --> 00:38:35,160
that point too when they wrote back and

806
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,280
said hey what's going on with this and

807
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:38,319
got no

808
00:38:38,319 --> 00:38:41,280
response I think that that lack of

809
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:49,430
response could have been a response

810
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,880
too if we SP it that is a date

811
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,240
right is that the third one we've got so

812
00:38:56,240 --> 00:39:01,510
far we have the initial response on

813
00:39:01,510 --> 00:39:03,800
[Music]

814
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,480
2521 oh so there's another aspect

815
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,270
another point to that is

816
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,000
that you know refusing to pick up the

817
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:19,190
review of the plans in May of

818
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,480
2022 was that an error on the part of

819
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,069
the Planning and Zoning

820
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:26,880
administrator did the planning and

821
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,710
zoning

822
00:39:29,720 --> 00:39:38,839
administrator was he obligated to was there even evidence that because the response came from the town

823
00:39:38,839 --> 00:39:42,119
attorney we have it's my opinion that we

824
00:39:42,119 --> 00:39:44,560
were given no evidence to say that that

825
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,520
came from plan and Zoning in any way

826
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,440
shape or form correct correct so we

827
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,400
cannot know if there was any discussion

828
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,200
or what not from what I have

829
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,119
seen I see no indication of that so I

830
00:39:57,119 --> 00:39:59,839
mean I would be unable to rule that the

831
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:02,440
that I I would say that that's out of

832
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,440
our bounds

833
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,960
because it was not an action by the

834
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,319
administrator of the commission unless

835
00:40:09,319 --> 00:40:12,550
the inaction was an

836
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,280
action love that

837
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,760
question but if the administrator or the

838
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,109
commission was not

839
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:24,520
involved in that

840
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,720
rejection right well you could have that letter was a rejection and you can

841
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:31,640
also have that the fact that it didn't

842
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:34,200
come from Planning and Zoning right that

843
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:35,880
they rejected it in the fact that they

844
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,960
chose not to react to it and

845
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:41,720
coincidentally the town sent something

846
00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,240
too so to me that wasn't done on their

847
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:46,880
behalf

848
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,079
because pounds represent

849
00:40:50,079 --> 00:40:52,200
represented the mayor and the Town

850
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640
Council and that letter did not CC the

851
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:57,680
planning and zoning

852
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:00,599
anybody I agree with that so that's also

853
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:03,079
my so so is that something we could rule

854
00:41:03,079 --> 00:41:06,400
on at refusal I I think that's outside

855
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,470
our

856
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,640
bounds but the fact that letter was

857
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,119
written to the pl and zonian

858
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:18,079
administrator unless male fraud

859
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:21,400
occurred he received it we just didn't

860
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,040
hear

861
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,359
anything I think you

862
00:41:25,359 --> 00:41:28,119
said uh I said that if the letter was

863
00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:29,680
sent unless mail fraud occurred or

864
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,839
something the Planning and Zoning

865
00:41:30,839 --> 00:41:32,680
administrator and the commission still

866
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,920
received the letter I would hope they re

867
00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:37,599
still receive the

868
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:40,640
letter that being said we didn't receive

869
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:43,000
something before too so I don't know

870
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,440
this is the may may 2022 the letter

871
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,440
asking for site plan

872
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,480
review after

873
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:59,790
the right in the yeah

874
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,800
let's go back to March of

875
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,760
2023 when the moratorium was

876
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,040
lifted and the site the review of the

877
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,359
site plans was not

878
00:42:12,359 --> 00:42:15,599
started is that an error is that

879
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,960
a something we can rule on I

880
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,839
don't I mean so so what they have I have

881
00:42:21,839 --> 00:42:22,800
this

882
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:26,119
in um this is this is the timeline

883
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:28,480
pulled from the

884
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:34,319
code uh which would be um that the let's

885
00:42:34,319 --> 00:42:37,160
see uh in uh November

886
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,440
22 is a zoning Amendment zoning

887
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,720
map then March of 23 is the termination

888
00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:47,920
of the moratorium so even then and and

889
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,160
uh Along on same date of uh March 23

890
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:52,960
there's an additional zoning amendment

891
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:53,800
that

892
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,559
passes I mean those those site plans are

893
00:42:57,559 --> 00:42:59,839
going to apply to old the old rules

894
00:42:59,839 --> 00:43:02,119
which is kind of the whole reason we're

895
00:43:02,119 --> 00:43:06,520
here right um I can't I can't see that

896
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:07,880
as being a decision point because those

897
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:09,480
are

898
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,960
so uh out of whack right those we we

899
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,079
haven't looked into the differences in

900
00:43:15,079 --> 00:43:16,680
zoning and I don't think we

901
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,760
should um but the idea that they could

902
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:21,480
pick

903
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,400
up uh two-year-old site plans with a new

904
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,240
certainly you can and if you decide that

905
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:31,920
you're going to um review them against

906
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:34,880
whatever whatever code is in place at

907
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:36,760
that

908
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,319
moment you could it's a bit of a stretch

909
00:43:39,319 --> 00:43:41,599
for me but

910
00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:44,319
well you know it

911
00:43:44,319 --> 00:43:46,640
wasn't I mean there wasn't an explicit

912
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:49,319
request at that time to review the

913
00:43:49,319 --> 00:43:55,190
plans against the code of

914
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,680
2021 it it would be like

915
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,400
submitting a new let's let's say you

916
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,160
submitted the plans

917
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:07,359
fresh in March of

918
00:44:07,359 --> 00:44:10,920
2023 those same plans would get reviewed

919
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:16,040
against the code that existed at that

920
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,240
moment

921
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:22,640
yeah I mean but but but the point

922
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,390
earlier I think is a good one in that

923
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,119
although the plans were there there was

924
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,440
not a formal

925
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:37,510
application in March of

926
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:40,839
2023 to

927
00:44:40,839 --> 00:44:44,040
um have the plans reviewed I don't think

928
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,400
yeah I don't think they be yeah I don't

929
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,440
can't read into that I have a question

930
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,000
how can the error occur in March of 2023

931
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,400
when the appeal was filed in June of

932
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,559
2022 you can't have have an error

933
00:44:57,559 --> 00:44:59,920
occurred nine months after it says up

934
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,200
until this point in but the appeal the

935
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:04,960
appeal application was

936
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,559
rejected so it wasn't so it wasn't there

937
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:10,200
wasn't any appeal but it was but all of

938
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,160
this is a continuation of

939
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,000
that well why we're here today again the

940
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:18,599
moratorium was still in

941
00:45:18,599 --> 00:45:22,240
place yeah I don't think the zoning

942
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:23,960
administrator or commission could have

943
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,119
done anything while

944
00:45:27,119 --> 00:45:32,190
the moratorium was in

945
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,440
place I think I mean I think that's only

946
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:37,440
it was only it when the moratorium was

947
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,470
lifted in March of

948
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,200
23 that there could have been any

949
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,119
progress but I mean I think the the

950
00:45:46,119 --> 00:45:47,440
applicant would I think there was not

951
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,480
any progress was that an error was that

952
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,390
an error of

953
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:55,960
interpretation we're we're trying to

954
00:45:55,960 --> 00:45:58,680
rule on the action of the zoning

955
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,119
administrator and the

956
00:46:02,119 --> 00:46:09,710
commission or decisions of those

957
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:12,480
bodies

958
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,720
okay are you gonna are you gonna clarify

959
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:17,160
or you gonna I'm try to clarify on my

960
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:20,880
own I'm just I'm struggling

961
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:23,359
that the appeal

962
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:28,200
application was rejected in 2022 too but

963
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:33,240
not by us it never got to us hold on so

964
00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:35,720
we're talking about the appeal to come

965
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,920
to before the appeals board the like the

966
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,640
requests to come talk to us yeah yeah

967
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:45,430
okay sorry I just clarifying

968
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:48,400
um because that was yeah we're failing

969
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:50,400
to process the site plans I don't know

970
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,319
there's just once you file an appeal I

971
00:46:53,319 --> 00:46:55,720
mean review of the site plans is put on

972
00:46:55,720 --> 00:47:01,480
hold well actually I guess I don't know if it

973
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:03,240
has to be put on hold but I think

974
00:47:03,240 --> 00:47:06,800
normally you file an appeal and any

975
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,960
further reviews get put on hold until

976
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:17,829
appeal's

977
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:20,240
heard again I you know I think the start

978
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:24,200
the clock doesn't restart until March of

979
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:34,510
23 I yeah I don't think

980
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,880
yeah to me there's only one there's only

981
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,040
one decision Point by zoning

982
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:41,520
administrator and planning zoning and

983
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,400
that's the first one which is the the

984
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,160
jabak response letter and kind a

985
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,960
subsequent subsequent fils I don't think

986
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:51,079
that the

987
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:53,319
like there's a whole bunch of mess with

988
00:47:53,319 --> 00:47:54,839
the the

989
00:47:54,839 --> 00:47:58,800
moratorium and all that but I think the

990
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,079
and there's a lot of could have would

991
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,559
have should have in a lot of directions

992
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:03,960
but I think the only

993
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,720
one that really just stands out to me is

994
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:09,960
did Mr dubak make a

995
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,480
mistake an error according to the rules

996
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,160
by which we are

997
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:20,240
guided in February of 2021 or

998
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,960
roundabouts roundabouts there um and I

999
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:24,559
think that's kind of why I was talking

1000
00:48:24,559 --> 00:48:25,880
about all that Domino stuff at the

1001
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,720
beginning was cuz like

1002
00:48:27,720 --> 00:48:29,599
I think what the applicant would like us

1003
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,760
to do is find that that was an error

1004
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,640
which then knocks over some things which

1005
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:39,640
are outside the scope of this board what do you think was happening in March

1006
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:40,920
of

1007
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:45,710
2023 I mean it's it's more that I don't

1008
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,680
think I don't think anybody I mean

1009
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:50,119
reading it maybe reading it I don't

1010
00:48:50,119 --> 00:48:53,400
think anybody wants that is like the

1011
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,480
these site plans were submitted lawfully

1012
00:48:56,480 --> 00:49:01,440
on a date and they were planned for that

1013
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,760
specific version of the law and the

1014
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:08,599
zoning code and anything other than that

1015
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:10,559
I don't think is that's that's the

1016
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:12,240
starting point the starting point that's

1017
00:49:12,240 --> 00:49:14,640
the only point because like if they

1018
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,240
let's say that got reopened after all

1019
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:19,640
these zoning ordinances I don't think I

1020
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,000
can't imagine the applicant would be

1021
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:23,400
terribly happy with that probably would

1022
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,599
end another that's really not the point is that

1023
00:49:28,599 --> 00:49:34,960
uh you know should should have should the plans have been reviewed

1024
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:37,119
in March of

1025
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:40,680
2023 and and I guess there was no formal

1026
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,280
application to me the answer is a pretty

1027
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,680
clear no not not whether they would have

1028
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,920
been rejected because the the zoning

1029
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,359
code

1030
00:49:50,359 --> 00:49:54,839
changed me that's that's not pertinent

1031
00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:56,160
they they they may well have been

1032
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:58,079
rejected because the zoning code had

1033
00:49:58,079 --> 00:50:00,760
changed but the fact that they the

1034
00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:04,400
review was not started restarted at that

1035
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:10,190
point um and there was no formal

1036
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,119
application made you know the only the

1037
00:50:13,119 --> 00:50:15,119
only formal application to review the

1038
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:16,480
site plans

1039
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,150
was

1040
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:25,799
2021 I think as you're continuing to

1041
00:50:25,799 --> 00:50:32,000
discuss and Del R this uh if you find uh

1042
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:36,119
or get to the point where you think that

1043
00:50:36,119 --> 00:50:41,040
2021 uh email was a

1044
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,520
determination then one of the other

1045
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,880
things you need to consider is whether

1046
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:48,960
there was a timely appeal from that

1047
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,160
determination Mr chairman can I add for

1048
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,079
five yeah let's take uh let's take 10 uh

1049
00:50:55,079 --> 00:50:57,760
we'll resume at uh 7:30

1050
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:55,510
30 yep

1051
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:25,510
you

1052
00:52:25,520 --> 00:53:38,349
e e

1053
00:53:38,359 --> 00:54:21,030
okay

1054
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:31,069
that's good

1055
00:54:31,079 --> 00:55:01,589
you like those

1056
00:55:01,599 --> 00:55:19,700
was it

1057
00:55:19,710 --> 00:55:29,109
[Music]

1058
00:55:29,119 --> 00:56:07,390
just stick out

1059
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:09,559
oh did you go to the Arctic or the

1060
00:56:09,559 --> 00:56:12,880
Antarctic Antarctic Antarctic okay I

1061
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:17,510
thought that was where well

1062
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:27,390
December a trip

1063
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:39,109
kind a buck

1064
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:40,680
thing

1065
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:48,670
um I had two opportunity to go

1066
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:52,359
pass tell you what it's far

1067
00:56:52,359 --> 00:56:56,599
away yeah Tak a long time to get there

1068
00:56:56,599 --> 00:56:58,680
did you go

1069
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,160
artina flew to

1070
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:05,559
buies and then spent a night in bonus

1071
00:57:05,559 --> 00:57:08,319
Aries and flew down to the southern tip

1072
00:57:08,319 --> 00:57:13,510
of South America and

1073
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,720
on check you

1074
00:57:15,720 --> 00:57:18,880
out I was

1075
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,640
sweating you w three

1076
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:25,359
layers had to climb a a steep snow back

1077
00:57:25,359 --> 00:57:27,039
to get there

1078
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:28,400
to get to this

1079
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:31,400
point and I'm carrying this 50 pound

1080
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,520
camera a big long but you got a cool

1081
00:57:34,520 --> 00:57:43,740
picture

1082
00:57:43,750 --> 00:57:50,430
[Music]

1083
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,640
yes is everybody

1084
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:55,799
good y turn your mic back on if you

1085
00:57:55,799 --> 00:57:57,720
would

1086
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,319
uh all right we are resuming after our

1087
00:58:00,319 --> 00:58:01,680
short

1088
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,280
break

1089
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:05,559
um I think you should feel free if there

1090
00:58:05,559 --> 00:58:07,599
are things that like this

1091
00:58:07,599 --> 00:58:10,760
is very much a disc like just just get

1092
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,920
it out if you want to there's things on

1093
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,440
your list that you'd like to talk about

1094
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,119
even if it's not necessarily in the

1095
00:58:17,119 --> 00:58:20,240
context which we have you know kind of

1096
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,799
centered around a couple things if

1097
00:58:21,799 --> 00:58:24,640
there's other other issues you'd like to

1098
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:26,839
um

1099
00:58:26,839 --> 00:58:29,960
you'd like to chat about before

1100
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,559
we I don't really have an agenda for

1101
00:58:32,559 --> 00:58:35,400
where we go from here um I think at some

1102
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,359
point we'll want to walk through some of

1103
00:58:38,359 --> 00:58:44,720
the specifics of where these particular can we check

1104
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:49,440
these boxes in terms of process but

1105
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,400
um yeah do you have anything you want to

1106
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:54,960
go totally random you were asking before

1107
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,799
about who tubak would have given those

1108
00:58:57,799 --> 00:59:00,599
plans to you were saying when you know

1109
00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:02,480
it takes time once the administrator

1110
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,400
gets the plans doesn't he do something

1111
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,039
with them he talks to people whatever

1112
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:08,119
else so it

1113
00:59:08,119 --> 00:59:11,240
um the processing procedure after

1114
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:12,880
submission says the administrator shall

1115
00:59:12,880 --> 00:59:14,520
review the applications for completeness

1116
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:16,160
and will refer the applications to the

1117
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:18,119
appropriate individuals for agent or

1118
00:59:18,119 --> 00:59:20,680
agencies for review comment approval

1119
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,119
Etc so whether he started that process I

1120
00:59:24,119 --> 00:59:25,440
don't I don't know but I'm just saying

1121
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:29,599
that's where I read yeah yeah and that was my read on it was that was that

1122
00:59:29,599 --> 00:59:30,920
even though it

1123
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,359
doesn't that maybe sounds like talk to

1124
00:59:34,359 --> 00:59:37,079
State agencies or whatever it is that is

1125
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:39,839
in the purview of his job that talking

1126
00:59:39,839 --> 00:59:43,440
to staff for the Town Council would also

1127
00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,880
fall into that that was my read on that

1128
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,720
particular but I think we have to keep

1129
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,839
in mind at no point did we actually hear

1130
00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:54,319
from chubak so we have no idea if Beyond

1131
00:59:54,319 --> 00:59:56,280
things such as that letter we have have

1132
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,000
no idea what Communications actually

1133
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,119
occurred um whether with anybody in one

1134
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:05,839
of the parties or otherwise we don't

1135
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:08,839
know so I think that's that's something

1136
01:00:08,839 --> 01:00:11,440
that's really important that we only

1137
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,230
have part of that

1138
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:18,599
picture so let me bring up another

1139
01:00:18,599 --> 01:00:23,400
Point let's say that we

1140
01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:26,079
decide that there was a Mis

1141
01:00:26,079 --> 01:00:27,880
interpretation there was an error on the

1142
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:32,280
part of the the administrator or

1143
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,240
commission you know decision is

1144
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,069
resulting from

1145
01:00:39,079 --> 01:00:43,160
misinterpretation the the appeal asks

1146
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,000
that

1147
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:49,200
we we request the the U administrator to

1148
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,200
immediately commence the processing and

1149
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:55,680
review of the site plans according to

1150
01:00:55,680 --> 01:01:01,109
the the zoning code that was in place in

1151
01:01:01,119 --> 01:01:04,319
2021 are we able to do that is that

1152
01:01:04,319 --> 01:01:06,640
within our

1153
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:10,039
powers because if it's

1154
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:13,200
not then whether or not there was an

1155
01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,039
error is

1156
01:01:16,039 --> 01:01:18,440
irrelevant I think we'd still have to do

1157
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,680
it um do what to make to make that

1158
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,039
decision even if we didn't have I think

1159
01:01:24,039 --> 01:01:25,480
it would we'd effectively be a speed

1160
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,920
bump and a different legal battle which

1161
01:01:27,920 --> 01:01:30,680
is that we can make our decision but if

1162
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:37,589
but but if we decided there was that there was an an

1163
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:41,640
error request the the administrator to

1164
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:43,520
immediately pick up review the site

1165
01:01:43,520 --> 01:01:47,079
plans I I think that in in order to do

1166
01:01:47,079 --> 01:01:48,480
that though we have to find that not

1167
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:49,920
only is there an

1168
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:53,880
error that was an appealable offense but

1169
01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:56,039
that the appeal was done properly and

1170
01:01:56,039 --> 01:01:57,640
everything leading up well let's assume

1171
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:01,440
that we we decide

1172
01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,880
okay if we don't have the

1173
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,680
power to request or tell or order the

1174
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:12,039
administrator to review the

1175
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:15,400
plans against the the code that existed

1176
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,150
in

1177
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:22,240
2021 then there's no point there is a

1178
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,640
bit of that um we we would have to deny

1179
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:28,520
the the the request Den I the appeal

1180
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:30,720
because if we're not able if we don't

1181
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:31,799
have the

1182
01:02:31,799 --> 01:02:37,200
power to um ask the administrator order

1183
01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,000
the administrator whatever to go back

1184
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,920
and use the 2021

1185
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,079
code then automatically we'd have to

1186
01:02:45,079 --> 01:02:46,720
deny the appeal I don't know if we'd

1187
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,760
have to deny it I think I think we could

1188
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,279
make a decision without any enforcement

1189
01:02:52,279 --> 01:02:54,400
we ultimately don't have any enforcement

1190
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:59,599
power we are are a second review of the

1191
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:02,039
powers that exist for planning and

1192
01:03:02,039 --> 01:03:04,640
zoning and the zoning administrator I

1193
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:06,680
mean I think a lot some of the requests

1194
01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,480
were for for us to do some of the work

1195
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,079
that other other folks within the town

1196
01:03:12,079 --> 01:03:15,760
do was a little too far for me but I

1197
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:19,079
think we'd be well within our our powers

1198
01:03:19,079 --> 01:03:22,799
if if all of the check if we go down the

1199
01:03:22,799 --> 01:03:27,880
list and we find that all the all the requirements been satisfied and that

1200
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:31,279
an error was made that the role of this

1201
01:03:31,279 --> 01:03:33,359
the board would stop as soon as we made

1202
01:03:33,359 --> 01:03:35,920
the decision that an error like that

1203
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,720
this was an error on behalf of planning

1204
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:40,880
and zoning and the zoning administrator

1205
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:43,359
I I don't think we want to go any

1206
01:03:43,359 --> 01:03:47,359
further than that um but but again the

1207
01:03:47,359 --> 01:03:53,390
requests it's a two it's a two-part

1208
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:55,880
request request that the administrator

1209
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,359
pick up review of the plans and that the

1210
01:03:59,359 --> 01:04:01,799
plans would be reviewed against the

1211
01:04:01,799 --> 01:04:04,200
ordinances from

1212
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:07,119
2021 yeah I mean if if you can only

1213
01:04:07,119 --> 01:04:10,520
fulfill one but not the other I don't I

1214
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,920
mean I could see a scenario where we'd

1215
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,079
say yes to both of those that is how it

1216
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:18,279
should have been we we'd be effectively

1217
01:04:18,279 --> 01:04:20,000
winding back the decision clock and

1218
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,400
making that decision so we say yes and

1219
01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,279
the zoning administrator says no I don't

1220
01:04:25,279 --> 01:04:26,960
think we have from from the point at

1221
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:29,640
which we we say that this is how the

1222
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:32,079
decision should have been made I think

1223
01:04:32,079 --> 01:04:35,079
we kind of can wipe our hands of it not

1224
01:04:35,079 --> 01:04:37,279
we don't have enforcement Authority sure

1225
01:04:37,279 --> 01:04:40,559
I agree do we if if we decided there was

1226
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:42,000
an

1227
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:44,580
error do we have the authority

1228
01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:46,160
[Music]

1229
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:50,390
to I what's what's the

1230
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,160
wording there there's a difference

1231
01:04:52,160 --> 01:05:00,269
between a request and an order right

1232
01:05:00,279 --> 01:05:03,440
the the application asks that we

1233
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,240
order that the zoning ordinances in in

1234
01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,599
effect as of January 21 be

1235
01:05:11,599 --> 01:05:14,119
applied the request is asking for an

1236
01:05:14,119 --> 01:05:16,799
order from

1237
01:05:16,799 --> 01:05:19,760
us say you don't have to Grant the

1238
01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:22,039
specific relief that the applicant to

1239
01:05:22,039 --> 01:05:24,799
the appellant has out you have the

1240
01:05:24,799 --> 01:05:28,799
discretion to other types of relief okay

1241
01:05:28,799 --> 01:05:31,559
I view it like a variance if somebody's

1242
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:33,839
asking for a 20 foot deck and we give

1243
01:05:33,839 --> 01:05:36,039
them a six-foot deck that's what we

1244
01:05:36,039 --> 01:05:39,400
write that we are going to allow and

1245
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,640
then it goes to the other powers that b

1246
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,200
and it after that it's out of our hands

1247
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,279
and so just because that request came in

1248
01:05:48,279 --> 01:05:49,960
doesn't mean we follow through with it

1249
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:53,440
as written is that fair I think we we'd

1250
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:56,720
just be saying that an error happened

1251
01:05:56,720 --> 01:06:00,760
and and the remedy that we'd recommend

1252
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:04,559
would be these site plans be considered

1253
01:06:04,559 --> 01:06:06,200
as of the date that they were filed

1254
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,200
against the current the town code and

1255
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,720
the zoning map and all the other things

1256
01:06:11,720 --> 01:06:13,960
that apply at that time I'm not

1257
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,599
saying that's what we should do because

1258
01:06:16,599 --> 01:06:19,880
that there's lots going on um but I

1259
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,000
think if if we went down that road and

1260
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:23,400
found an

1261
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,960
error just us determining the would be

1262
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:27,480
the where we

1263
01:06:27,480 --> 01:06:30,720
stop assuming that you find that there

1264
01:06:30,720 --> 01:06:33,440
was a timely appeal yes all that all of

1265
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:35,319
the all of the stipulations have been

1266
01:06:35,319 --> 01:06:38,079
met and we find

1267
01:06:38,079 --> 01:06:41,430
that

1268
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:45,319
yes the appeal needs to be filed within

1269
01:06:45,319 --> 01:06:48,200
30 days got a whole list of them here I

1270
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:49,920
don't I don't know if we want to jump

1271
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,160
into that thing here well there are two

1272
01:06:53,160 --> 01:06:56,200
statements there are two statements

1273
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,599
though that say that so it was in the CR

1274
01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:00,960
wasn't it just like in the critical area

1275
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,160
or something but that was stated it does

1276
01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:07,359
say 30 days but it also States five

1277
01:07:07,359 --> 01:07:09,480
days sorry what are we talking I

1278
01:07:09,480 --> 01:07:13,950
understand that five days only applies

1279
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:16,640
to plan

1280
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,319
reviews

1281
01:07:19,319 --> 01:07:26,309
or yeah I I I picked up on that as well

1282
01:07:26,319 --> 01:07:29,200
there there's a five day I I I have the

1283
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,200
two 30day limit one is 29023 f right

1284
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,520
okay so you me to read it go ahead uh

1285
01:07:36,520 --> 01:07:38,119
was an appeal made to the board of

1286
01:07:38,119 --> 01:07:41,079
appeals within five days of the decision

1287
01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:45,000
as 29023 F and the 30 days is was an

1288
01:07:45,000 --> 01:07:46,720
appeal made to the board of appeals

1289
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:48,480
within 30 days of the decision and those

1290
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,400
are probably two different subsections

1291
01:07:50,400 --> 01:07:53,279
my understanding is the five day

1292
01:07:53,279 --> 01:07:57,630
limit regards a this

1293
01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:01,480
ision pertaining to some aspect of the

1294
01:08:01,480 --> 01:08:03,910
site

1295
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:06,480
plan because it's under the

1296
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,079
section under General requirements site

1297
01:08:09,079 --> 01:08:12,039
plan General requirements section

1298
01:08:12,039 --> 01:08:15,799
F any person aggrieved by the decision

1299
01:08:15,799 --> 01:08:19,480
on a site plan of a site plan General

1300
01:08:19,480 --> 01:08:20,839
requirement General requirement of site

1301
01:08:20,839 --> 01:08:23,120
plan right made under this article May

1302
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,480
within five days of such a decision a

1303
01:08:25,480 --> 01:08:27,040
appeal to and have a determination made

1304
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:29,719
by the board of

1305
01:08:29,719 --> 01:08:33,080
appeals so that's the Fay one and then

1306
01:08:33,080 --> 01:08:34,920
and and there was there was no decision

1307
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:36,600
made on a site

1308
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:41,910
plan well that's what we have to

1309
01:08:41,920 --> 01:08:45,279
decide was was that in this what we were

1310
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:47,719
talking about before February 5th 2021

1311
01:08:47,719 --> 01:08:49,799
letter was that my reading of that is

1312
01:08:49,799 --> 01:08:51,440
that for

1313
01:08:51,440 --> 01:08:53,839
example the

1314
01:08:53,839 --> 01:08:58,440
administrator looks at a site plan and

1315
01:08:58,440 --> 01:09:03,480
says this Dimension is not acceptable

1316
01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:07,359
before the the the plan is

1317
01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:11,349
rejected that's the five-day

1318
01:09:11,359 --> 01:09:14,239
limit but that has that doesn't apply in

1319
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:18,229
this

1320
01:09:18,239 --> 01:09:21,640
case I think that's an

1321
01:09:21,640 --> 01:09:24,359
interpretation well yes but I mean it

1322
01:09:24,359 --> 01:09:26,719
could here's the second one the second

1323
01:09:26,719 --> 01:09:30,080
one is under subsection J of let me find

1324
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:31,520
the total title so I can actually tell

1325
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:33,759
you what we're talking about um this

1326
01:09:33,759 --> 01:09:36,400
would subsection J specifically for the

1327
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,719
board of appeals so if you're if you're

1328
01:09:38,719 --> 01:09:40,319
reading that you might you might say

1329
01:09:40,319 --> 01:09:42,440
that the specific subsection for the

1330
01:09:42,440 --> 01:09:44,040
board of appeals is the date that

1331
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:45,679
applies because it's more specific than

1332
01:09:45,679 --> 01:09:48,279
the first and this is under Section J

1333
01:09:48,279 --> 01:09:50,279
rules and procedures for f filing

1334
01:09:50,279 --> 01:09:52,520
interpretation and variance appeals and

1335
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:53,800
special

1336
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,239
exceptions um and this number one

1337
01:09:56,239 --> 01:09:58,440
general rules and procedures for appeals

1338
01:09:58,440 --> 01:10:00,920
and applications and this specific

1339
01:10:00,920 --> 01:10:04,719
language is any appeal should be made uh

1340
01:10:04,719 --> 01:10:06,560
within 30 days after the date of the

1341
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,750
administrator's

1342
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:13,719
decision

1343
01:10:13,719 --> 01:10:16,320
43f see what it actually

1344
01:10:16,320 --> 01:10:19,080
says uh and I don't think it was as

1345
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:21,320
narrow as Paul

1346
01:10:21,320 --> 01:10:24,400
suggested any person agreed by any

1347
01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:27,800
decision made under this article and

1348
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:35,120
that's the entire site plan uh article uh

1349
01:10:35,120 --> 01:10:38,360
six May within five days of such

1350
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:40,640
decision appeal to and have a

1351
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:42,679
determination made by the board of

1352
01:10:42,679 --> 01:10:45,280
appeals uh During the period of appeal

1353
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:51,709
no building permit shall be

1354
01:10:51,719 --> 01:10:55,920
issued okay so we got two different

1355
01:10:55,920 --> 01:10:59,840
time limits yep which ones apply it's

1356
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,440
the more specific one which would be the

1357
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:03,520
subsection this one the first the one

1358
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,199
Fred just read is in zoning General

1359
01:11:06,199 --> 01:11:09,080
requirements the second one is specific

1360
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:10,640
to

1361
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:12,640
appeals I guess this one has the total

1362
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,120
board of appeals in it so um

1363
01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:16,440
determination made by the board of

1364
01:11:16,440 --> 01:11:19,000
appeals determin

1365
01:11:19,000 --> 01:11:21,040
right you said you wanted to go through

1366
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,520
the rules didn't

1367
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:25,920
you yep um I mean

1368
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,280
we're outside of both of those either

1369
01:11:28,280 --> 01:11:29,560
way right like

1370
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,520
this if we're going back to the

1371
01:11:31,520 --> 01:11:34,880
specifics of this case would be

1372
01:11:34,880 --> 01:11:38,040
like this these these like if I'm

1373
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:41,320
summarizing in human terms these this

1374
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,840
request was kind of left in limbo was

1375
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,000
neither neither uh I mean so so the

1376
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:49,920
letter gets sent back whatever you can

1377
01:11:49,920 --> 01:11:52,639
we can whatever um it's neither appealed

1378
01:11:52,639 --> 01:11:54,440
nor denied in an official capacity it's

1379
01:11:54,440 --> 01:11:57,000
in this gray holding

1380
01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:00,159
Zone I don't feel like we can apply

1381
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:03,960
either we can apply any limit date to

1382
01:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,760
that because it like it's kind of unfair

1383
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:08,880
right like we're just going to hold your

1384
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:10,880
applications for five days and neither

1385
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:12,120
appeal nor deny them but then we're

1386
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,159
going to hold you to the date at which

1387
01:12:15,159 --> 01:12:16,920
we sent a letter so you know something

1388
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,040
it's

1389
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,880
like yeah agree with that

1390
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,440
sign I might I might take an argument

1391
01:12:25,440 --> 01:12:27,120
something more along the lines of in

1392
01:12:27,120 --> 01:12:28,760
official

1393
01:12:28,760 --> 01:12:31,440
capacity the moratorium

1394
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:34,719
passing was ineffect to denial I could

1395
01:12:34,719 --> 01:12:36,480
I'm not saying I'm making that argument

1396
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,600
but I could I would hear like an

1397
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:40,520
argument along those those lines where

1398
01:12:40,520 --> 01:12:42,040
here's something official that happened

1399
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:44,120
with a stamp on

1400
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,840
it not it's not by the Planning

1401
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:53,950
Commission or

1402
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:55,840
by yeah

1403
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:59,400
so I feel like yeah I feel like if

1404
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:01,440
there's any date later than that it

1405
01:13:01,440 --> 01:13:04,199
would be you know if there was a 60-day

1406
01:13:04,199 --> 01:13:06,440
application period or whatever right a

1407
01:13:06,440 --> 01:13:08,679
denial and lack of response whatever

1408
01:13:08,679 --> 01:13:10,400
else and if that 60 days passes and

1409
01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:12,560
nothing happens then that would be

1410
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:15,639
another potential but nothing no appeal

1411
01:13:15,639 --> 01:13:22,629
no anything came of that so

1412
01:13:22,639 --> 01:13:25,360
um I mean we can do the opposite in

1413
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:28,199
backtrack is to make this if it was

1414
01:13:28,199 --> 01:13:30,320
timely what when would things have had

1415
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:32,080
to have happened but we have already

1416
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:38,430
eliminated that those options yeah I

1417
01:13:38,440 --> 01:13:41,199
mean who who do we apply the rules to

1418
01:13:41,199 --> 01:13:45,159
right like it there there are two cases

1419
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:47,440
where in order for the date to start

1420
01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:49,800
we'd have yeah yeah it's not really fair

1421
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:51,920
but in order for the appeal date to

1422
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:59,750
actually hold with either one of those

1423
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,159
um it doesn't yeah I don't know that it

1424
01:14:02,159 --> 01:14:03,600
even holds water with some of the later

1425
01:14:03,600 --> 01:14:06,560
things I'm sorry that I was just looking

1426
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:09,440
to see if it would even hold water later

1427
01:14:09,440 --> 01:14:11,400
on with some of the other events that we

1428
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:16,520
spoke about but we didn't believe that was anything having to do with

1429
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:21,669
plenty and Zoning so that would be I

1430
01:14:21,679 --> 01:14:25,480
know was the check being returned

1431
01:14:25,480 --> 01:14:29,000
was that an act of Planning and Zoning

1432
01:14:29,000 --> 01:14:31,800
or right like there the so the they

1433
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:34,159
submitted an application money was

1434
01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:36,040
refunded would that be considered an

1435
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:38,840
application of or not denial or whatever

1436
01:14:38,840 --> 01:14:41,400
denial like decision decision I would

1437
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,480
say yes I mean it came from the Town

1438
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:46,320
Administrator but it came from the Town

1439
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:50,159
Administrator uh after the pl and Zoning

1440
01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:55,199
administrators said no so

1441
01:14:55,199 --> 01:14:57,280
to me that that is part of that but to

1442
01:14:57,280 --> 01:15:01,400
me that's also part of his his

1443
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:03,360
letter even though it's technically a

1444
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:04,760
different

1445
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:08,679
date but that was not that was not a

1446
01:15:08,679 --> 01:15:14,870
rejection on the merits of the other the

1447
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,400
S I think it's still lumped in with that

1448
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:34,950
February 5th

1449
01:15:34,960 --> 01:16:00,550
H all right

1450
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,560
I guess I guess in in terms of

1451
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:04,800
determining if an error

1452
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:07,080
happened was there an

1453
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:09,679
obligation upon receipt of these to

1454
01:16:09,679 --> 01:16:15,360
perform a series of right Mr dubak gets

1455
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:19,120
filings does he then is part of like

1456
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:21,159
does he need to complete a series of

1457
01:16:21,159 --> 01:16:25,080
steps in order to have

1458
01:16:25,080 --> 01:16:30,669
I don't know never mind just talking out

1459
01:16:30,679 --> 01:16:33,400
loud I mean we can debate different

1460
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:36,000
things different steps like that but

1461
01:16:36,000 --> 01:16:38,520
does It ultimately matter if we if we

1462
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:40,920
believe that a decision point was made

1463
01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,679
at that point or anywhere time in that

1464
01:16:43,679 --> 01:16:47,480
time frame right that he could have done

1465
01:16:47,480 --> 01:16:50,159
that does it matter because what

1466
01:16:50,159 --> 01:16:53,320
happened after that in a timely manner

1467
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,120
what I don't I don't no I don't think I

1468
01:16:56,120 --> 01:16:58,679
don't see the utility in looking at that

1469
01:16:58,679 --> 01:17:00,960
if since we need a

1470
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,199
set time and that's the only one we can

1471
01:17:03,199 --> 01:17:43,470
find

1472
01:17:43,480 --> 01:17:45,120
so do we want to just run

1473
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,440
down the like I have I have a list of

1474
01:17:48,440 --> 01:17:50,880
kind of General process things and

1475
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:52,639
specific ones we already talked a little

1476
01:17:52,639 --> 01:17:55,400
bit about the specific ones but like

1477
01:17:55,400 --> 01:17:57,080
maybe maybe this will I don't know if

1478
01:17:57,080 --> 01:17:58,920
this will help anything but start start

1479
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:02,270
on the general ones which

1480
01:18:02,280 --> 01:18:04,199
is

1481
01:18:04,199 --> 01:18:09,110
was the first one is was this offense

1482
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:10,840
appealable that's just these are just

1483
01:18:10,840 --> 01:18:13,000
notes I have from some of our legal

1484
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,480
discussions about uh process issues what

1485
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:19,990
would make it not

1486
01:18:20,000 --> 01:18:21,880
appealable if we found that there was

1487
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:25,120
not an actual error if we found back

1488
01:18:25,120 --> 01:18:27,920
followed all well that's that's not

1489
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:29,760
that's a different question than whether

1490
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:35,030
it's appealable it's always

1491
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:50,430
appealable

1492
01:18:50,440 --> 01:18:53,600
if it would be made appealable by being

1493
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:56,760
a decision of planning zoning or zoning

1494
01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,360
administrator and what else right did it

1495
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,840
involve in interpretation

1496
01:19:02,840 --> 01:19:10,709
290

1497
01:19:10,719 --> 01:19:14,159
ordinance that there was an error and an

1498
01:19:14,159 --> 01:19:16,239
order requirement decision or

1499
01:19:16,239 --> 01:19:18,960
determination made by the administrator

1500
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,360
in the enforcement of the zarting

1501
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:23,360
chapter or by the planning and starting

1502
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:25,560
commission so

1503
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:29,800
these are all I think preconditions to

1504
01:19:29,800 --> 01:19:33,480
uh something being subject to appeal it

1505
01:19:33,480 --> 01:19:35,360
has to

1506
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,360
be a an action or

1507
01:19:39,360 --> 01:19:41,480
decision um on the part of the

1508
01:19:41,480 --> 01:19:45,430
administrator or

1509
01:19:45,440 --> 01:19:48,120
commission involving involing

1510
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,120
interpretation right right of any

1511
01:19:50,120 --> 01:19:52,360
provision of the of

1512
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,280
ordinance or where's alleged that there

1513
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:58,159
was an error and an order requirement

1514
01:19:58,159 --> 01:20:00,880
decision or determination made by the

1515
01:20:00,880 --> 01:20:03,320
administrator in the enforcement of this

1516
01:20:03,320 --> 01:20:10,870
chapter whereby the planning

1517
01:20:10,880 --> 01:20:13,800
commiss keep keep on discussing the the

1518
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:15,760
next one I have noted down is is was it

1519
01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,239
timely and I think that's one where

1520
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:20,840
we're going to have a hard time I think

1521
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:22,639
that's kind of what we were just talking

1522
01:20:22,639 --> 01:20:27,440
about uh 35 days 30

1523
01:20:27,440 --> 01:20:30,360
days like Gray

1524
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:32,840
Zone I don't think it's gray I don't

1525
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,080
think it's gray gray

1526
01:20:35,080 --> 01:20:37,679
okay I

1527
01:20:37,679 --> 01:20:42,159
think I think it can only be gray

1528
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:45,280
if we don't have a specific time that

1529
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:46,560
we're associating with if we think there

1530
01:20:46,560 --> 01:20:48,760
is a time and it's a black and white

1531
01:20:48,760 --> 01:20:51,880
issue that when it was filed what

1532
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:54,120
happened 30 days prior or 5 days prior

1533
01:20:54,120 --> 01:20:57,080
whichever when you look at was that was

1534
01:20:57,080 --> 01:21:00,239
that the the point we're talking about

1535
01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:02,639
that so it's it's a black and white

1536
01:21:02,639 --> 01:21:05,040
thing once we determine a time in which

1537
01:21:05,040 --> 01:21:07,280
we think this error

1538
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:11,159
occurred it cded that February 5th of

1539
01:21:11,159 --> 01:21:16,950
2021 was the decision

1540
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:21,080
point then the then the argument would

1541
01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:23,800
be that the appeal had to be filed not

1542
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:26,520
later than March March 5th of

1543
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:29,800
2021 that what you're

1544
01:21:29,800 --> 01:21:34,270
saying clearly it

1545
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:37,880
wasn't I think but I you know rejecting

1546
01:21:37,880 --> 01:21:40,480
an appeal on that basis

1547
01:21:40,480 --> 01:21:46,270
I makes me very very

1548
01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:50,840
uncomfortable yeah I don't believe that gives the appen a fair hearing this

1549
01:21:50,840 --> 01:21:53,000
one's this one's gray to me because of

1550
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:55,600
the the the whole in pen that the

1551
01:21:55,600 --> 01:21:59,280
applications were put in like the the

1552
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:00,719
this holding pen where it was neither

1553
01:22:00,719 --> 01:22:03,800
approved nor denied up and up until some

1554
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:05,320
different event if if you want to argue

1555
01:22:05,320 --> 01:22:08,639
that like I don't I wouldn't feel

1556
01:22:08,639 --> 01:22:12,480
good making a a determination based on

1557
01:22:12,480 --> 01:22:14,400
Tim February

1558
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:16,560
5th

1559
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,320
um

1560
01:22:19,320 --> 01:22:22,000
email didn't make it entirely clear I

1561
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:23,360
mean it didn't come on right out and say

1562
01:22:23,360 --> 01:22:27,910
we're not going to review the plan

1563
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,120
was was vague right well it's a burden

1564
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,560
there's a moratorium going to come up

1565
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,480
but the but the message did not say

1566
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:40,750
we're not going to review the

1567
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:44,239
plans other words I mean it wasn't a

1568
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:47,800
hard hard uh point at which you could

1569
01:22:47,800 --> 01:22:49,239
start a

1570
01:22:49,239 --> 01:22:55,189
clock to count for 30 days

1571
01:22:55,199 --> 01:22:57,040
that's how I feel

1572
01:22:57,040 --> 01:22:59,800
like the timeliness question is maybe a

1573
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:01,239
requirement of what we have to do here

1574
01:23:01,239 --> 01:23:04,280
in order to to lay down a decision but I

1575
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:06,920
don't I I don't think that that question

1576
01:23:06,920 --> 01:23:08,760
about whether the PE was timely I don't

1577
01:23:08,760 --> 01:23:11,040
think that's an important question I

1578
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:12,880
think it's a really important question I

1579
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:14,880
think that's exactly why we're here like

1580
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:16,920
we'll have to address it because it's

1581
01:23:16,920 --> 01:23:19,950
written in the town

1582
01:23:19,960 --> 01:23:23,520
code yeah that's board can only

1583
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:26,679
entertain appeals that are timely

1584
01:23:26,679 --> 01:23:29,880
filed I mean we could want to allow

1585
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:35,520
things but that's not in our purview to do that so the to me the only way

1586
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:37,719
that this is timely right so it was

1587
01:23:37,719 --> 01:23:41,960
filed on June 24th 2022 was when the

1588
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:45,800
appeal was filed so going back 30

1589
01:23:45,800 --> 01:23:49,840
days it's what May 25th

1590
01:23:49,840 --> 01:23:53,880
2022 because it has 30 days say the 24th

1591
01:23:53,880 --> 01:23:59,000
um so that is 2 days

1592
01:23:59,000 --> 01:24:03,120
after pound's letter saying that the

1593
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:05,199
moratorium was still in

1594
01:24:05,199 --> 01:24:08,639
effect and four days after Blitz wrote

1595
01:24:08,639 --> 01:24:09,880
asking for the

1596
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,950
review

1597
01:24:12,960 --> 01:24:16,800
so so there was the request for it there

1598
01:24:16,800 --> 01:24:18,560
was the denial by pounds which we are

1599
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:19,880
saying is

1600
01:24:19,880 --> 01:24:24,920
not by Planning and Zoning right

1601
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:29,280
and then 32 days pass and an appeal is

1602
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:31,920
made okay we're talking about couple of

1603
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:34,480
different time periods when did the

1604
01:24:34,480 --> 01:24:40,080
clock start on this 30 days how about we take this one and and table

1605
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:41,199
it I don't think we're going to get to

1606
01:24:41,199 --> 01:24:42,520
an answer tonight but why don't we put

1607
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,679
this on the list of things to think

1608
01:24:44,679 --> 01:24:46,320
about before we get back together again

1609
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:48,119
do you understand what I'm saying if

1610
01:24:48,119 --> 01:24:51,840
you're if if if we if a person has 30

1611
01:24:51,840 --> 01:24:54,679
days to appeal it and the appeal happen

1612
01:24:54,679 --> 01:24:57,520
on this date what happened 30 days prior

1613
01:24:57,520 --> 01:24:59,760
and in the midst of

1614
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:03,280
that so I I think that's we can yeah I

1615
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:04,560
think I think that's what we have to

1616
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:06,960
look at if if it is timely that's the

1617
01:25:06,960 --> 01:25:09,880
only time period we have it was

1618
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:12,080
that let's get our thoughts together on

1619
01:25:12,080 --> 01:25:16,679
this like I think I've heard what you said Amy

1620
01:25:16,679 --> 01:25:20,280
and we can we can consider how we how we

1621
01:25:20,280 --> 01:25:21,320
think so I don't think we're going to

1622
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,560
wrap this one up in the next you know

1623
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:25,920
number of minutes it's this is just a

1624
01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,679
it's a thing to put a pin in on and lay

1625
01:25:27,679 --> 01:25:29,400
out what you think and we'll come back

1626
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:30,600
together next time and this is one of

1627
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,080
the explicit things we can uh we can

1628
01:25:33,080 --> 01:25:34,199
talk

1629
01:25:34,199 --> 01:25:37,520
about so you're suggesting

1630
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:41,560
that the clock started in May of

1631
01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:45,040
20122 I'm not suggesting anything I am

1632
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,920
saying that if the

1633
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:52,080
timeliness is the factor requirement of

1634
01:25:52,080 --> 01:25:55,320
an appeal you have have an appeal

1635
01:25:55,320 --> 01:25:57,600
application that has to be filed within

1636
01:25:57,600 --> 01:26:00,520
30 days of the error or the

1637
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,119
interpretation right so you have you

1638
01:26:03,119 --> 01:26:05,520
have a calendar date right there that

1639
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:09,000
you that limits that time

1640
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:11,440
period well another thing too is it

1641
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:13,920
wasn't actually found because it was

1642
01:26:13,920 --> 01:26:15,639
never

1643
01:26:15,639 --> 01:26:18,239
accepted you mean I think the DAT that

1644
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:21,360
one you mean you mean the the appeal for

1645
01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:26,510
to us the paperwork for us yeah yeah

1646
01:26:26,520 --> 01:26:32,109
when it was received by by the town

1647
01:26:32,119 --> 01:26:40,470
yeah this one's a hard one for

1648
01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:45,000
me there was an attempt to have an

1649
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:47,400
appeal there was an attempt to submit an

1650
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:48,960
application for an

1651
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:51,960
appeal and it was rejected it wasn't

1652
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:55,760
accepted rejected well huh we never got

1653
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:58,960
it you never got it but I think that

1654
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:01,679
there was an appeal

1655
01:27:01,679 --> 01:27:04,239
filed with in a proper form with the

1656
01:27:04,239 --> 01:27:07,159
filing fee everything that needed to be

1657
01:27:07,159 --> 01:27:10,280
done to perfect an appeal was done

1658
01:27:10,280 --> 01:27:12,159
whether from an appealable decision

1659
01:27:12,159 --> 01:27:14,239
whether it's timely those are different

1660
01:27:14,239 --> 01:27:17,840
issues uh but I do think that there was

1661
01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:19,480
a

1662
01:27:19,480 --> 01:27:23,480
uh an appeal filed now it never came to

1663
01:27:23,480 --> 01:27:25,960
the board for scheduling a hearing you

1664
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:29,440
guys never knew about it until after

1665
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:31,480
there was a Judicial

1666
01:27:31,480 --> 01:27:34,000
determination uh by the Circuit Court

1667
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,880
saying uh board of appeals you have to

1668
01:27:36,880 --> 01:27:39,840
hear this case t uh in a timely manner

1669
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:43,199
now I don't know why uh this board did

1670
01:27:43,199 --> 01:27:45,560
not know about it why it wasn't

1671
01:27:45,560 --> 01:27:48,360
presented to you but that's not you know

1672
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:55,550
what we're here for yeah

1673
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,440
let's let's come back to let's get our

1674
01:27:57,440 --> 01:27:59,800
thoughts on that one and come back

1675
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:02,480
um the next one I think the next couple

1676
01:28:02,480 --> 01:28:04,760
I think Fred already hit on with under

1677
01:28:04,760 --> 01:28:07,560
the the appeal is the was the offense

1678
01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:09,080
appealable question which was the first

1679
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:12,600
one we talked about uh this is uh was it

1680
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:14,760
a decision of the zoning administrator

1681
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,840
or Planning and Zoning commission so

1682
01:28:17,840 --> 01:28:19,960
whatever it is we're considering

1683
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:22,199
here was it just say we already talked

1684
01:28:22,199 --> 01:28:25,040
about keep on um

1685
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:26,920
does it involve interpretation of 290

1686
01:28:26,920 --> 01:28:28,760
zoning does it involve enforcement of

1687
01:28:28,760 --> 01:28:34,030
290

1688
01:28:34,040 --> 01:28:36,520
zoning the answer to those

1689
01:28:36,520 --> 01:28:43,350
is yes but regardless of how of which

1690
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:50,950
yeah

1691
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,080
um G is going to pitch this out here I

1692
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:55,040
feel like we maybe run into a little bit

1693
01:28:55,040 --> 01:28:58,080
of a a little bit of a wall um does

1694
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:00,920
anyone have objections with wrapping

1695
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,600
this up 30 minutes early or would you

1696
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:05,119
like to continue working through this

1697
01:29:05,119 --> 01:29:07,800
together I can I can go either way it's

1698
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:10,320
funny

1699
01:29:10,320 --> 01:29:13,960
caffeine I guess my question

1700
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:15,920
is if

1701
01:29:15,920 --> 01:29:20,830
we stop it now and pick up

1702
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:23,360
later what progress will we will we make

1703
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:25,920
at the second

1704
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:29,000
meeting um ultimately I don't think

1705
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:30,800
regardless of how fast we go in the next

1706
01:29:30,800 --> 01:29:33,760
30 minutes we're going to come to a a

1707
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:34,840
clean

1708
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:37,639
conclusion um I think there's at least

1709
01:29:37,639 --> 01:29:40,119
for me there's some some things I'd like

1710
01:29:40,119 --> 01:29:41,320
to lay out specifically on the

1711
01:29:41,320 --> 01:29:42,560
timeliness

1712
01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:45,119
question

1713
01:29:45,119 --> 01:29:48,320
um I guess I don't see I feel like it's

1714
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,320
stalled a little bit here and that we

1715
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:52,000
would all benefit by getting our

1716
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,159
thoughts together as to how to continue

1717
01:29:54,159 --> 01:29:55,840
to narrow our

1718
01:29:55,840 --> 01:30:00,239
discussion um but that said I'm this is

1719
01:30:00,239 --> 01:30:02,600
a little bit of a strange scenario

1720
01:30:02,600 --> 01:30:04,760
because it is public and you feel like

1721
01:30:04,760 --> 01:30:06,679
you don't want to ramble you want to get

1722
01:30:06,679 --> 01:30:12,080
your your ducks in a row before you talk

1723
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:14,280
um but sometimes you just have to talk

1724
01:30:14,280 --> 01:30:17,000
it out right so I

1725
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:18,760
yeah how do you feel what do you want to

1726
01:30:18,760 --> 01:30:21,840
do Amy personal personal preference um I

1727
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:25,000
mean like I think that we have to meet

1728
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:28,119
next time anyways um I think and I think

1729
01:30:28,119 --> 01:30:31,639
this would give us time then to evaluate

1730
01:30:31,639 --> 01:30:35,360
you know the June 2020 to appeal the

1731
01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:38,040
timing whatever I think that we could

1732
01:30:38,040 --> 01:30:40,560
have more clarity in our conversation if

1733
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:45,280
we did that let's uh oh sorry Paul um

1734
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:46,800
what do you what do you feel like Paul

1735
01:30:46,800 --> 01:30:48,639
if you're if you have a preference and

1736
01:30:48,639 --> 01:30:51,080
how you'd like to proceed right now what

1737
01:30:51,080 --> 01:31:00,750
would you like to do

1738
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:01,719
I don't

1739
01:31:01,719 --> 01:31:08,600
know I hate to give up this I mean we we I don't know if we're making progress

1740
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:11,679
yeah I hear but at the same time I hate

1741
01:31:11,679 --> 01:31:15,199
to give up the time how about this I

1742
01:31:15,199 --> 01:31:20,159
think I feel like yes it how about we we

1743
01:31:20,159 --> 01:31:23,920
look at your timelines and is there

1744
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:25,480
let's just lay out the times when we'

1745
01:31:25,480 --> 01:31:28,040
like other board members to consider

1746
01:31:28,040 --> 01:31:29,679
things this may

1747
01:31:29,679 --> 01:31:34,280
be one time frame is can we can we

1748
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:36,080
narrow this

1749
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:39,320
to um an action or series of actions it

1750
01:31:39,320 --> 01:31:40,719
sounds like we've maybe kind of

1751
01:31:40,719 --> 01:31:44,040
informally done that but explicitly are

1752
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:46,840
there are there other are do you still

1753
01:31:46,840 --> 01:31:48,400
think we should

1754
01:31:48,400 --> 01:31:50,400
consider the

1755
01:31:50,400 --> 01:31:52,880
reopening after the moratorium expired

1756
01:31:52,880 --> 01:31:54,920
as an action to continue talking about

1757
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:58,560
or have we have we reached

1758
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:03,239
some some guess I'm reconsidering

1759
01:32:03,239 --> 01:32:06,080
that we can okay let me let me go back

1760
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:13,679
to the 30 days prior to the filing of a of

1761
01:32:13,679 --> 01:32:17,470
the appeal on June

1762
01:32:17,480 --> 01:32:20,719
24th what event

1763
01:32:20,719 --> 01:32:23,960
happened within those 30 days and the

1764
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:26,280
only one I

1765
01:32:26,280 --> 01:32:33,870
see is a letter from Todd pounds on May

1766
01:32:33,880 --> 01:32:37,400
25th so would we say that that May 25th

1767
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,360
2022 letter is when the clock started on

1768
01:32:41,360 --> 01:32:45,070
the 30

1769
01:32:45,080 --> 01:32:48,159
days I think I think

1770
01:32:48,159 --> 01:32:50,560
that the assumption would be that that

1771
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:53,920
would be the clock as far as when the

1772
01:32:53,920 --> 01:32:56,400
appeal was made so we need to determine

1773
01:32:56,400 --> 01:33:02,910
if that is a date that would allow that

1774
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,760
appeal I'm not sure what you

1775
01:33:05,760 --> 01:33:08,639
mean well we said before that we

1776
01:33:08,639 --> 01:33:10,920
believed well I thought it was kind of

1777
01:33:10,920 --> 01:33:12,560
all of us it

1778
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,360
was if we believe that letter was on

1779
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:17,960
behalf of Planning and Zoning

1780
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:21,080
administrator and commission then that

1781
01:33:21,080 --> 01:33:24,719
would be a moment in time

1782
01:33:24,719 --> 01:33:27,159
that you could then appeal to because it

1783
01:33:27,159 --> 01:33:29,480
was a decision however our prior

1784
01:33:29,480 --> 01:33:31,920
conversation we all were kind of

1785
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:33,320
speaking to the point that we did not

1786
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:35,040
think that that was on behalf of the

1787
01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:38,840
Planning and Zoning okay group so I

1788
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:40,960
think that

1789
01:33:40,960 --> 01:33:45,400
that's that could be what was the basis

1790
01:33:45,400 --> 01:33:47,239
for the appeal

1791
01:33:47,239 --> 01:33:49,639
application but I think and if we had

1792
01:33:49,639 --> 01:33:51,320
more you know a couple more days

1793
01:33:51,320 --> 01:33:53,440
whatever else we could then really look

1794
01:33:53,440 --> 01:33:54,800
into and see if that's what we thought

1795
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:56,480
it was are we missing something else

1796
01:33:56,480 --> 01:33:59,520
that happened in the days

1797
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,080
after I think it was the 25th of May I

1798
01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:03,520
misspoke

1799
01:34:03,520 --> 01:34:08,350
before so if we decided

1800
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:16,320
that exhibit 33 if if we decided that letter on on May 25th was not on

1801
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:17,280
the

1802
01:34:17,280 --> 01:34:22,030
behalf of Planning and

1803
01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:25,760
Zoning then the clock didn't start and

1804
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:29,270
suddenly an appeal

1805
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:32,360
appears there's no clock running

1806
01:34:32,360 --> 01:34:35,159
suddenly appeal

1807
01:34:35,159 --> 01:34:37,239
appears

1808
01:34:37,239 --> 01:34:42,360
what where's where's the where's the

1809
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:46,199
30-day um rule

1810
01:34:46,199 --> 01:34:48,520
applying right and that's why one reason

1811
01:34:48,520 --> 01:34:52,800
why I think having it if we wait until

1812
01:34:52,800 --> 01:34:55,000
the next session then we can wrap our

1813
01:34:55,000 --> 01:34:56,920
heads around that and really dive into

1814
01:34:56,920 --> 01:34:58,280
it to see was there something else that

1815
01:34:58,280 --> 01:34:59,280
we're

1816
01:34:59,280 --> 01:35:01,960
missing I don't know if anything off the

1817
01:35:01,960 --> 01:35:11,590
top of my

1818
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:13,920
head so the

1819
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:16,360
three three dates we have noted down

1820
01:35:16,360 --> 01:35:19,320
here as oh sorry are

1821
01:35:19,320 --> 01:35:21,239
you what you going

1822
01:35:21,239 --> 01:35:25,600
to go ahead I was just going to just for our

1823
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:29,880
own what we do once we're um Thinking by

1824
01:35:29,880 --> 01:35:33,239
ourselves is the infle the inflection

1825
01:35:33,239 --> 01:35:36,840
points are the initial jabak letter in

1826
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:38,000
February of

1827
01:35:38,000 --> 01:35:42,119
21 Paul has made uh some some had had

1828
01:35:42,119 --> 01:35:45,000
some thoughts about

1829
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:48,080
522 which what is is that

1830
01:35:48,080 --> 01:35:50,480
the maybe I wrote that date down wrong

1831
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:52,600
was that the date that the moratorium

1832
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:57,760
expired no what sorry I was wrong may 2222 is what we're talking about

1833
01:35:57,760 --> 01:36:00,360
right now is pound this is the pounds

1834
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:07,430
letter May 25th May

1835
01:36:07,440 --> 01:36:09,920
25th maybe

1836
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:15,320
one at the extended moratorium

1837
01:36:15,320 --> 01:36:16,960
expiring

1838
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:19,639
on what date is that uh termination of

1839
01:36:19,639 --> 01:36:30,830
it on in March of 23

1840
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:36,189
are there other dates or other

1841
01:36:36,199 --> 01:36:39,360
things you can think of right now that

1842
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:42,239
we should consider while we're not in

1843
01:36:42,239 --> 01:36:44,360
session I think I think the way to

1844
01:36:44,360 --> 01:36:48,679
handle this to order for us to come to a

1845
01:36:48,679 --> 01:36:52,199
conclusion is we come up with a list of

1846
01:36:52,199 --> 01:36:56,149
relevant questions

1847
01:36:56,159 --> 01:36:57,119
we

1848
01:36:57,119 --> 01:37:00,679
agree as a board on the answers to those

1849
01:37:00,679 --> 01:37:06,030
questions to each

1850
01:37:06,040 --> 01:37:11,390
question and whatever those answers

1851
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:14,040
are once they're put together becomes

1852
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:16,790
our

1853
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:19,600
decision I'm going to caveat that by

1854
01:37:19,600 --> 01:37:21,480
saying that I'm not sure that we have to

1855
01:37:21,480 --> 01:37:24,040
all agree on everything I think we have

1856
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:26,400
to agree on an ultimate decision but I'm

1857
01:37:26,400 --> 01:37:28,840
not sure we have to agree you know I

1858
01:37:28,840 --> 01:37:31,280
think coming up with those two

1859
01:37:31,280 --> 01:37:35,639
questions is is will help us

1860
01:37:35,639 --> 01:37:38,480
Focus specific list of questions help to

1861
01:37:38,480 --> 01:37:44,149
help us

1862
01:37:44,159 --> 01:37:47,400
Focus can I be a devil's advocate so I

1863
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:49,560
think that that's that's a very likely

1864
01:37:49,560 --> 01:37:51,960
scenario but I think that we have to

1865
01:37:51,960 --> 01:37:55,040
also know that in an event like this not

1866
01:37:55,040 --> 01:37:57,719
everybody's always going to agree right

1867
01:37:57,719 --> 01:38:01,199
um and so it could be that our decision

1868
01:38:01,199 --> 01:38:02,800
relies on the fact that we can't agree

1869
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:04,880
on it we just have to leave that open

1870
01:38:04,880 --> 01:38:06,119
and it might be frustrating it's all

1871
01:38:06,119 --> 01:38:08,480
hell for everybody here but that might

1872
01:38:08,480 --> 01:38:11,960
be the result so just we're going to try

1873
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:14,400
to you know have this conversation all

1874
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:17,480
come to the same mindset but um just let

1875
01:38:17,480 --> 01:38:20,990
I'm just throwing that out

1876
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,599
there because that's part of us well I

1877
01:38:23,599 --> 01:38:27,679
mean how else so what other approach

1878
01:38:27,679 --> 01:38:30,560
would you suggest oh no I think I think

1879
01:38:30,560 --> 01:38:32,960
our our approach is good I'm just I'm

1880
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:36,599
just saying that I think that you know

1881
01:38:36,599 --> 01:38:38,599
this situation there's only three of us

1882
01:38:38,599 --> 01:38:40,239
and I think that there's a pressure that

1883
01:38:40,239 --> 01:38:42,480
we all have to agree and I think we all

1884
01:38:42,480 --> 01:38:44,440
want to come to the same conclusion or

1885
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:46,280
whatever it is right ideally that's what

1886
01:38:46,280 --> 01:38:48,119
we do I'm just saying that doesn't

1887
01:38:48,119 --> 01:38:50,760
always happen if we had a full board it

1888
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:52,639
might be a two three Vote or a 4-1 Vote

1889
01:38:52,639 --> 01:38:55,159
or something sure but so we might not

1890
01:38:55,159 --> 01:38:57,320
all agree and when you said answer the

1891
01:38:57,320 --> 01:38:58,960
questions okay that's all I'm saying I

1892
01:38:58,960 --> 01:39:00,480
thought you were saying going to help us

1893
01:39:00,480 --> 01:39:03,950
come to a to

1894
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:07,280
a I don't want to say come to a decision

1895
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:10,000
because all three of us may not

1896
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:14,280
agree but what process is going to help

1897
01:39:14,280 --> 01:39:18,320
us to to finish the conversation so I

1898
01:39:18,320 --> 01:39:20,639
think we've already like not to maybe to

1899
01:39:20,639 --> 01:39:23,199
over over recap of of what we've done is

1900
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:24,080
I

1901
01:39:24,080 --> 01:39:26,239
there's there a lot A lot has been

1902
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:28,560
presented a lot has happened and from

1903
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:30,800
where I sit today I have not heard

1904
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:33,480
anyone make serious arguments that we

1905
01:39:33,480 --> 01:39:35,599
should be considering anything about a

1906
01:39:35,599 --> 01:39:37,520
moratorium resolution other than the

1907
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,440
start and end dates the only doesn't

1908
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:41,679
matter the interpretation of it the

1909
01:39:41,679 --> 01:39:44,080
legality of it that is outside of the

1910
01:39:44,080 --> 01:39:46,199
scope of this board which I think is a

1911
01:39:46,199 --> 01:39:48,800
massive thing taken off of our plates

1912
01:39:48,800 --> 01:39:54,280
for the next two meetings because that we're not discussing the legality

1913
01:39:54,280 --> 01:39:56,880
or any issues regarding moratoriums

1914
01:39:56,880 --> 01:39:59,080
ordinances resolutions we're saying

1915
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:02,560
there was a moratorium and it ended um

1916
01:40:02,560 --> 01:40:05,960
but nothing kind of in between about the

1917
01:40:05,960 --> 01:40:07,480
specifics of that and I think taking

1918
01:40:07,480 --> 01:40:10,199
that off the table has been a pretty big

1919
01:40:10,199 --> 01:40:13,679
win even even from this first session I

1920
01:40:13,679 --> 01:40:16,679
mean unless someone has a real

1921
01:40:16,679 --> 01:40:17,960
disagreements help with how I just

1922
01:40:17,960 --> 01:40:21,119
summarize that um I haven't gotten any

1923
01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:23,960
indication that we want to we want to

1924
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:27,960
turn in that direction um and once we've

1925
01:40:27,960 --> 01:40:30,560
done that we've now gotten to only a

1926
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:31,520
couple

1927
01:40:31,520 --> 01:40:34,000
things that we actually are going to

1928
01:40:34,000 --> 01:40:36,960
consider some of them are procedural

1929
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:40,800
process timing and checklist issues some

1930
01:40:40,800 --> 01:40:43,719
of them are what are the important

1931
01:40:43,719 --> 01:40:46,119
inflection points which we should

1932
01:40:46,119 --> 01:40:49,000
discuss and I think I I mean from where

1933
01:40:49,000 --> 01:40:52,320
we started here that seems pretty much

1934
01:40:52,320 --> 01:40:54,560
pretty narrow I think we keep doing this

1935
01:40:54,560 --> 01:40:56,119
go ahead use the word when you say

1936
01:40:56,119 --> 01:40:59,199
process process yeah you're talking

1937
01:40:59,199 --> 01:41:01,480
about the process that will get us to a

1938
01:41:01,480 --> 01:41:04,280
decision or talking about the um

1939
01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:06,480
sequence of events that occurred I'm

1940
01:41:06,480 --> 01:41:08,239
talking about the checklist of things

1941
01:41:08,239 --> 01:41:11,920
that we need to go through to say that

1942
01:41:11,920 --> 01:41:14,040
this these these things that we are kind

1943
01:41:14,040 --> 01:41:15,560
of when I say process I mean the things

1944
01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:16,800
that we already kind of went through is

1945
01:41:16,800 --> 01:41:18,840
it appealable is it timely was it a

1946
01:41:18,840 --> 01:41:21,080
decision of the zoning those questions

1947
01:41:21,080 --> 01:41:22,320
those are question those are process

1948
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:24,199
question those are questions

1949
01:41:24,199 --> 01:41:28,040
yeah list those questions and we each

1950
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:32,080
say on each question we each say yes no

1951
01:41:32,080 --> 01:41:34,280
yeah I think I think that's the way

1952
01:41:34,280 --> 01:41:35,639
that's what I was getting to okay I

1953
01:41:35,639 --> 01:41:37,400
thought you were saying that like we all

1954
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:39,080
had to say yes to those question like to

1955
01:41:39,080 --> 01:41:40,800
the same question okay yeah okay I think

1956
01:41:40,800 --> 01:41:44,119
we come with a list of questions

1957
01:41:44,119 --> 01:41:51,070
first and then we debate each of those

1958
01:41:51,080 --> 01:41:53,960
questions and hopefully at the end

1959
01:41:53,960 --> 01:41:57,040
and we'll have

1960
01:41:57,040 --> 01:42:01,000
enough enough uh cohesiveness will be

1961
01:42:01,000 --> 01:42:03,199
able to come to a

1962
01:42:03,199 --> 01:42:07,040
decision so so explicitly explicitly the

1963
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:08,719
question list those

1964
01:42:08,719 --> 01:42:14,960
questions I think I've got I think the list of um of issues that these

1965
01:42:14,960 --> 01:42:18,080
process issues we can shrink these down

1966
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:19,239
from

1967
01:42:19,239 --> 01:42:21,719
a five days 30 days blah blah blah we

1968
01:42:21,719 --> 01:42:23,719
can shrink these shrink these down and

1969
01:42:23,719 --> 01:42:26,760
add if if there's other parts

1970
01:42:26,760 --> 01:42:28,920
of other things that we need to consider

1971
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:31,320
we can add to you call them process

1972
01:42:31,320 --> 01:42:33,320
issues that confuses yeah sorry about

1973
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:35,159
that yeah sorry

1974
01:42:35,159 --> 01:42:38,080
um there a list of questions that are

1975
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:41,199
relevant what's the answer each one I

1976
01:42:41,199 --> 01:42:44,520
think that's right um just say you may

1977
01:42:44,520 --> 01:42:49,040
find that you don't all agree on each

1978
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:51,920
question but the point is will you be

1979
01:42:51,920 --> 01:42:54,960
able to agree at the end of the road on

1980
01:42:54,960 --> 01:42:57,920
a final decision you may win some you

1981
01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,520
may lose some uh in the individual

1982
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:03,719
questions but uh you need to come to an

1983
01:43:03,719 --> 01:43:07,040
agreement as to the final uh

1984
01:43:07,040 --> 01:43:11,750
outcome so

1985
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:15,440
yeah may I ask a question Mr chair

1986
01:43:15,440 --> 01:43:19,880
please wrapping up soon come back uh

1987
01:43:19,880 --> 01:43:28,320
week and a half y

1988
01:43:28,330 --> 01:43:30,239
[Music]

1989
01:43:30,239 --> 01:43:32,480
not pushing it but I just want to uh

1990
01:43:32,480 --> 01:43:33,960
give you all the

1991
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:36,480
opportunity I don't feel like personally

1992
01:43:36,480 --> 01:43:39,360
I have issues with the way the code the

1993
01:43:39,360 --> 01:43:41,520
language of the code is laid out legal

1994
01:43:41,520 --> 01:43:44,920
issues I think it's all taking the

1995
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:48,199
context of the information we have and

1996
01:43:48,199 --> 01:43:51,960
trying to apply it which I think is open

1997
01:43:51,960 --> 01:43:59,360
session yeah uh okay uh with that so as far as

1998
01:43:59,360 --> 01:44:01,000
the list of questions who comes up with

1999
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:04,239
the questions uh I can I have should we

2000
01:44:04,239 --> 01:44:05,960
all come up with our own list and we

2001
01:44:05,960 --> 01:44:07,920
come together with it why don't we do

2002
01:44:07,920 --> 01:44:10,320
our own list and you can send if you'd

2003
01:44:10,320 --> 01:44:12,679
like you can send it to me and I will

2004
01:44:12,679 --> 01:44:14,360
try and D

2005
01:44:14,360 --> 01:44:16,400
duplicate or you can send it to Fred we

2006
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,000
can send

2007
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:20,159
FR then just come

2008
01:44:20,159 --> 01:44:24,920
back okay it's fine with me yeah

2009
01:44:24,920 --> 01:44:28,679
um okay yeah so we doing uh layout a

2010
01:44:28,679 --> 01:44:31,159
list of questions and we have three

2011
01:44:31,159 --> 01:44:32,520
points in time at which those would

2012
01:44:32,520 --> 01:44:34,040
apply

2013
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:37,320
to yeah more or

2014
01:44:37,320 --> 01:44:40,199
less okay um

2015
01:44:40,199 --> 01:44:42,400
given given that we have about 15

2016
01:44:42,400 --> 01:44:44,159
minutes left we'll just wrap up a little

2017
01:44:44,159 --> 01:44:45,560
early

2018
01:44:45,560 --> 01:44:48,159
um

2019
01:44:48,159 --> 01:44:50,239
outside uh is there any other business

2020
01:44:50,239 --> 01:44:53,199
any board members would like to bring up

2021
01:44:53,199 --> 01:44:55,400
at this time

2022
01:44:55,400 --> 01:44:58,639
uh anything else everyone good this Cas

2023
01:44:58,639 --> 01:45:02,000
no good okay uh at this point in time

2024
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:04,199
I'd entertain a motion to

2025
01:45:04,199 --> 01:45:06,920
adjourn I'll make a motion to adjourn

2026
01:45:06,920 --> 01:45:10,280
second second all favor I this meeting

2027
01:45:10,280 --> 01:45:14,149
is ajour thank you

2028
01:45:14,159 --> 01:45:16,239
everybody it's weird to talk about it

2029
01:45:16,239 --> 01:45:19,119
can I just say that weird to talk about

2030
01:45:19,119 --> 01:45:24,430
it's weird to talk about it

2031
01:45:24,440 --> 01:45:26,000
probably

2032
01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:29,800
can okay it feels like there are so many

2033
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:32,840
things that are not well

2034
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:37,159
constrained go this way