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putting my mic on. Um, I'd like to call
the uh Town Coventry Planning Commission

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meeting of Wednesday, August 26th
to order at 6:30 p.m.

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I will first call the role to get a
determination of a quorum. Uh, when I

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call your name in no particular order,
just acknowledge if you're here. John

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Price
>> here.

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» Uh, Pat Delude
>> here.

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» Um,
Mr. Kenny

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» here. John Luca is new member
>> here.

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» Uh vice chair Studley
>> here

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» and I'm Rick Clooney and I'm the
chairman and I'm here. So we have a

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quorum of five. Mr. Dilva and Mr. Burke
are both excused tonight.

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» Six.
>> I'm sorry.

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» Yeah, I just said we had a quorum. I
didn't say how many.

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» Oh, did I say okay?
All right. emergency evacuation plan. In

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the unlikely event of an emergency, if
we have to vacate the room, you can go

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out the doors that you came in. If for
some reason those doors are blocked, you

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can go out this door right here, and
there's another exit out to the uh

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parking lot through there.
At this time, I'd like everyone to stand

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for the pledge of allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

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United States of America and to the
republic for which it stands, one nation

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under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all.

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» First item on the agenda is uh approval
of minutes from the July 20th 26 public

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workshop. Everyone should have a copy in
that packet.

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» Make a recommendation for approval of
the meeting minutes.

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» I get a motion to approve the meeting
minutes from July 20th. Do I have a

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second?
>> Second.

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» I have a second by Mr. Kenny. Do um any
discussion or corrections? Hearing none.

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All in favor?
>> I.

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Next item is approval of the minutes
from the July 22nd, 2026 planning

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commission meeting. Do I have a motion
to approve?

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» Make a motion to approve.
>> Motion to approve by Mr. Kenny. Do I

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have a second?
>> I'll second.

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» I have a second by Mr. Price. Is there
any discussion or corrections on these

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minutes? Hearing none. All in favor? I.
No opposed. Motion carries. Okay. First

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item on the agenda here under six is
Senator New England master plan major

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land development with associated
dimensional variance. I believe this is

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a one-year extension for the prior
approval of the master plan, right? It's

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master plan.
>> Yes.

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» Does it say? [clears throat] Yep. Okay.
>> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of

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the board. For the record, my name is
Kelly Morris Salvatore. It's been a

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while since I've seen you. It's hard to
imagine that the master plan was

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approved almost two years ago. Um just
for the new members, uh this is a master

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plan that allows for 732 units uh across
substantially three lots in center of

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New England that my uh client has under
control. Um, in terms of the annual

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update that I'm supposed to provide
during this matter, uh, we do expect to

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be before you, uh, for lot what we call
lot three, which is one of the ones to

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the west, um, near the Highlands
condominiums. That should be coming to

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you for preliminary plan very shortly.
Uh, and, uh, the same partner in

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development will be developing lot two
as well. Um over on lot four, which is

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the one closer to Arnold Road, we were
very grateful to the town council last

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night. Uh they approved a tax
stabilization agreement that we have

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been negotiating with them for for
months. So we're ve very happy for that.

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That gives us the opportunity to move
forward with preliminary plan design uh

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for that lot. Those are intended at this
point to be apartments. So I expect to

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be seeing you quite a bit this fall and
winter.

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looking forward to it. Want to get those
units online.

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» Okay. Does anyone um on the commission
have any questions?

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» Okay. Hearing none. Um I'll entertain a
motion to approve the

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two one-year extensions. Is that what
we're getting here? I'm sorry. Are there

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right to extend two one-year extensions?
Richmond quit

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» and will be broken up into phases. I'm
sorry. Which will be broken up into

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phases, but you're it's just one
extension.

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» Okay.
>> Oneyear master plan extension to October

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18th, 2027 in accordance with Rhode
Island general law. Do I have a motion?

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» Um
Mr. Co, I'll make a motion.

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Um, I'd like to make a motion of
approval for one-year master plan

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extension project named Center of New
England. Uh, major land development with

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association associated dimension
variances. Owner Matthew McGrien

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um
applicant Star Capital LLC. Address

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Honor Road Angela Drive SE Stephanie
Drive and Center of New England

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Boulevard.
lot AP 13 lot 14 AP14 lots 1 and 65

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portions of AP 14 lot one and 1.2 two
app

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uh 15 lot 98 zone BP business park the
extension date is to October 18th 2027

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I'd like to include the staff report and
the asense other associated documents

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attached to the staff report in my
motion

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» I have a motion do I have a second
>> second

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» I have a motion motion by Mr. Kenny,
second by member Price. Uh, last call.

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Any further discussion?
Hearing none.

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All in favor?
>> I. Any opposed? None. Motion carries.

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» See you.

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Okay. [sighs and gasps]
Next item. Mar, this is a matter carried

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00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:09,759
over the ADU accessory dwelling unit
with associated dimensional variance.

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Jason and Amarie Theiel, assess plat 21,
lot 312 in R20 zone located at 31 King

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Street. Yes, sir.
>> Good evening. Jamie Ter, Jason Tero.

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Okay. 31 King Street, Coventry.
Jason Tero.

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Okay.

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So, we have the staff director's report.
You do you know why you're back before

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us this time?
>> Yeah, there weren't enough members

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[snorts] last time to vote on it
>> from the time before.

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» We approved this. Yeah,
>> but I believe the issue was the lot

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coverage was not correctly calculated
because you're now putting in a driveway

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that
>> Yeah, we want to um have a driveway

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going to the ADU off the existing
driveway.

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00:09:01,839 --> 00:09:07,920
» Right. And before it was shown as
imperous gravel or not shown at all. And

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now
>> I think it was gravel before. Yes.

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» Yeah.
>> So that's the change.

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» And since that wasn't calculated at the
first application, you're back before us

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to get approval because you won't be
able to get a permit to put in that

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portion of the driveway. Correct. With
the prior approval, right? Okay.

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» I just Does anyone on the U commission
have any questions or do you all

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understand why he's back here?

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00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:38,240
Okay, hearing none. Anything to add?
We're good.

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00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:44,240
» No, no concerns by staff.
>> Okay. So, if we're all uh set with

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00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:48,080
questions, I'll entertain a motion to uh
approve the I just want to make sure

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here. Are we just doing the variance on
this one because he already has the ADU

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or do we have to make two motions?
>> We're doing an additional variance. Um

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but it is a hearing so we should do a
call for comments.

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00:09:55,519 --> 00:10:01,920
» Oh, okay. Is there anybody here in the
audience that would like to speak for or

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against this application
or should I have is it hearing?

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00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,680
» Sorry, I'm a little off my game time.
>> No, that's fine. You can just indicate

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verbally that we're opening the public
hearing and this is the opportunity.

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» Yeah, we usually vote to open public
hearing.

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00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:17,760
» Yeah, you you could do it as a vote.
>> I'll make a motion to open this.

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00:10:16,079 --> 00:10:22,480
» We got a motion to We got a motion to
open for public hearing. We got a second

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00:10:19,279 --> 00:10:27,519
by Mr. Kenny. Um [clears throat] all in
favor? I. Any opposed? None. Is there

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anybody here that would like to speak uh
for or against the application for a

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variance for the property at 31 King
Street?

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Is there anybody on Zoom? If there's
somebody on Zoom, please raise your

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hand.
Do we have anybody on Zoom tonight? No.

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Okay.
All right. So, I'll make

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» I'll make a motion to close public.
>> Okay. We got a

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» And we got a second close public
hearing. All in favor?

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00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:57,200
» I.
>> Okay. That said, I'll now entertain a

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motion to um with regard to this
application.

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00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:06,640
» Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion to
approve

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00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:14,320
uh the dimensional variance to exceed
maximum lot coverage uh project is the

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ADU unified development review accessory
dwelling unit with associated

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00:11:16,399 --> 00:11:26,720
dimensional variances. Owner applicant
Jason and Anne Marie Thorough 31 King

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Street Cessors plot 21 lot 312 zone R20
lot size 0.76 acres uh existing use is a

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single family dwelling proposed use
single family dwelling with an accessory

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unit ADU
um I'd like to include the staff report

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in my motion
>> okay I have a motion do I have a second

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00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:54,240
» I'll Second
>> motion by Mr. Kenny, second by Mr.

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Price. Do we have any further discussion
from the board? Hearing none. All in

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favor?
>> I. Any opposed? None. Eyes have it.

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You're all set, sir.
>> Thank you.

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00:12:03,279 --> 00:12:08,560
» Sorry for the delay.
>> If if uh if uh you don't mind, I'd like

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00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:13,040
one more motion on this. Whenever we do
ADUs, we always do a second motion to

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allow the project to move forward to
building permit. Very straightforward.

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00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:19,200
» I'm sorry. uh a second motion to allow
this ADU to move forward to building

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00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:22,079
permit.
>> Okay, that's

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» this is we we call it unified because
there's two separate actions.

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00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,079
» Okay. I just didn't know if we had kind
of already done. Okay. So, at this time,

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I'll entertain a motion to allow this
project to move to building permit.

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00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:39,680
» Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a
favorable motion for the throat ADU to

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00:12:35,279 --> 00:12:46,160
move forward to building permit. And I'd
like to include the staff report in my

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00:12:43,519 --> 00:12:47,920
uh motion. Okay, I have a motion. Do I
have a second?

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00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:54,240
» Second.
>> Motion by Mr. Kenny, second by member

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00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:59,920
Price. Any discussion?
Hearing none. All in favor? I. Any

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00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:05,279
opposed? None. Motion carries.
>> Thank you. Good night.

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00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:12,079
» Okay.
New applications for discussion. Vote or

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00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:16,399
other action. 8.1 Torborg ADU. Accessory
dwelling unit with associated

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dimensional variance
cesus plat 43 lot 18 in the R20 zone.

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00:13:19,839 --> 00:13:27,920
Owners are Vincent and Alicia Torberg at
100 Reservoir Road proposing a 2600

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00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:32,399
square ft two-bedroom accessory dwelling
unit on a 97 acre parcel.

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One-dimensional variance is required
because the ADU will exceed the maximum

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unit maximum unit size requirements.
Good evening.

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00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,839
» Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Are we uh
with the chairman's indulgence, could I

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have one moment to speak with the
solicitor before I begin?

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00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,440
» Sure.

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00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:15,440
Thanks.
>> No problem.

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00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:19,040
» I didn't give it get a chance to give
him a heads up earlier.

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00:14:16,959 --> 00:14:22,480
» That's fine. I understand.
>> So, good evening. Thomas Cronin, 1070

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00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:28,480
Main Street, Car Coventry, Rhode Island
for the owner and applicant, the Tobog

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family's here with us tonight and uh
there contractor Ryan DeFranco from

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00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:41,839
Trust also with us um if there any
questions that they can uh respond to.

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00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:47,519
So 100 Reservoir Road AP43 lot 18 is
42,383

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00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:52,480
square feet or.97 acres. It's in the R2
R20 zone, excuse me, R20.

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00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:57,680
So the existing conditions include a
single family home uh with well and

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00:14:54,800 --> 00:15:02,800
septic. Uh the lot runs uphill from
Reservoir Road to the rear property

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00:14:59,920 --> 00:15:05,839
line. It's a raised ranch style home
with two stories in the front and a

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00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:10,720
single story in the rear. That's how the
the grade uh works. There's a pool,

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concrete patio, and a fenced in lawn
behind the home directly to the rear

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00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:22,240
adjacent to the existing home. Uh the
driveway and utility access are also

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directly from Reservoir Road.
There's an existing well on the

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00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:32,240
southwest side of the existing home and
the septic is in the front yard of the

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00:15:29,519 --> 00:15:39,040
existing home adjacent to Reservoir
Road. The proposal is to construct a

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00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:45,920
freestanding ADU behind the existing
home and behind that fenced in yard uh

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00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:51,920
after the pool. The proposed ADU is for
the Torborg's daughter, Kendall, who's

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00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:56,800
with us tonight. Town ordinance requires
an ADU that are incidental and

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00:15:54,480 --> 00:16:02,160
subordinate to the principal home and
maintain a continuity of appearance with

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the existing home in the neighborhood.
100 Reservoir Road is located in a

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00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:14,079
neighborhood of well-kept single family
homes, most built um with minimal

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00:16:10,639 --> 00:16:19,839
setback within 100 ft of uh Reservoir
Road. Um the proposed ADU is a

185
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:25,759
singlestory two-bedroom shingle style
cottage. Has a peaked roof, a small

186
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:30,399
covered front porch, a rear deck, and a
single attached uh single car attached

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00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:34,880
garage.
I don't know. They're not no plans up

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00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:40,639
there, but um
including these features, the ADU is uh

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00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:46,639
smaller and lower than the existing home
and the neighborhood homes.

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00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:51,360
So, the applicant has submitted a
landscape plan. Uh Dennis Haggy from the

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00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:55,759
staff has been out to the property to go
over it, but the property is currently a

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00:16:53,839 --> 00:17:00,560
grass lawn in front of and beside the
existing structure. This will remain.

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00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:06,000
There's a fenced in grass lawn behind
the deck and pool which will also

194
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:09,280
remain. Um,
beginning at the rear fence on the south

195
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:13,600
side of the property through the rear
boundary, there are mature pine trees

196
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:17,839
and other deciduous trees including
oaks. The area to the south side of the

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00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:25,120
existing fence will be cleared for the
ADU and a front lawn for the ADU. the um

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00:17:22,959 --> 00:17:29,679
so the area in the center will be
cleared but the trees will be maintained

199
00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:34,240
along the boundary including the rear
boundary

200
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:41,200
behind the existing uh there's also
going to be uh an OWTS specific to this

201
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:47,679
ADU so there'll be a clearing uh for
that area as well

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00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:51,600
so um the applicant has plans to fill in
any gaps created by construction with

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00:17:49,679 --> 00:17:58,880
some new evergreen planting I think
there are 18 abroite trees currently

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00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:04,720
along the boundary along uh I guess it
would be the southeast boundary

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00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:10,240
and additional plantings will be made so
that the there'll be limited visual

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00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:13,600
impact uh to the neighbors. Um, in order
to reach this ADU, a separate new

207
00:18:11,919 --> 00:18:18,160
driveway just like the one you just
discussed with the gentleman before us

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00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:24,080
would be installed 12 foot wide driveway
from Reservoir Road to the ADU along

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00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:30,000
that same easterly boundary that uh has
the uh currently 18 Abraitees. It'll go

210
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:34,559
between the existing row of abravites
and the existing front yard septic and

211
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:42,000
home.
So the variance saw tonight is for the

212
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:46,799
size of the ADU. So
the ordinance there's there's a bunch of

213
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:53,440
calculations, but in in this case, the
ordinance refers to a a maximum size of

214
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:59,840
1,200 square ft. So that's what we're uh
working with. The interior living space

215
00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:06,799
of the proposed ADU is 995 ft. There's
an attached garage of 352 square ft and

216
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:10,600
a covered front porch of 78 square ft
for a total of 1,65

217
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:20,640
square ft on the ground level.
The town includes the area of the

218
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:27,520
unfinished basement, an area of 995
square ft in their calculation, which is

219
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:32,559
how they reach 2,600 square ft. I have
raised a legal objection

220
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:38,240
that floor area is not defined in state
law or the town ordinance and there's no

221
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:43,440
legal or practical basis to include the
unfinished basement area in the

222
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:47,039
calculation of the floor area. That's
that's not really for this board to

223
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:51,919
decide and I'm only raising the
objection to preserve it. I don't have

224
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:56,799
any plans to further argue that point.
But should things not go the way we

225
00:19:53,600 --> 00:20:02,559
hope, it's preserved. Thank you.
So the planning department has suggested

226
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:06,960
uh that an outside bulkhead be
integrated into the basement to allow

227
00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:11,120
for exterior access
to the basement of this ADU so that the

228
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,960
storage in the basement of the ADU can
be common storage for the ADU and the

229
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:19,280
primary residence.
We we like we like that suggestion made

230
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:25,039
by the staff. We think it's a good
suggestion. um part of the basement of

231
00:20:23,039 --> 00:20:30,480
the primary residence which is a raise
ranch style home is finished. So there's

232
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:36,400
actually a very small basement area in
that home probably be it's it's a good

233
00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:40,720
idea to have that ADU basement be common
storage and so we're adopting that

234
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:46,720
suggestion. We think it's a good one. So
the plans will be will show um exterior

235
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:52,080
access through a bulkhead to that ADU
basement.

236
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:56,000
Um, so
when we look at the basis for the

237
00:20:53,600 --> 00:21:00,880
variance based on size, we looked at we
look at the impact to the neighborhood,

238
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:05,840
the impact to the property and and the
town. So, I I said I wasn't going to

239
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:09,760
argue about the unfinished basement area
tonight because when you look at when

240
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:15,200
you look at that, an an unfinished
basement doesn't have any impact on on

241
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:19,120
the neighbors, the the the utilities,
the town and the public health and

242
00:21:16,799 --> 00:21:24,880
safety of the town of Coventry. It's
just it doesn't, you know, just doesn't

243
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:29,280
have any impact at all. Um
I I note you know kind of repeatedly in

244
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:36,240
my application and I apologize for the
redundancy though that the actual living

245
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:43,360
space is 995 ft where 1,200 square f
feet are is allowed. The other items are

246
00:21:40,159 --> 00:21:48,159
part of a design, a thoughtful design to
have this be an attractive building to

247
00:21:45,919 --> 00:21:52,559
have it integrate into the neighborhood,
not just for the primary residence, but

248
00:21:50,159 --> 00:21:57,039
for the other residences.
So, we have some design features like

249
00:21:54,559 --> 00:22:00,799
that covered front porch and a small
rear deck which are counted into the

250
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:07,600
square footage which brings it up to
that 1,600 or 2600 depending on how you

251
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:12,559
look at it. Um, but those are items that
um help this integrate so that it's not

252
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:17,120
so noticeable uh in the neighborhood as
you drive by. Um, they're they're design

253
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:21,440
elements
that add value for sure, but you know,

254
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:29,200
we're not are here to argue about
economics, but also uh increase the

255
00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:33,600
blend into the neighborhood. Um, so
I I guess

256
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:41,960
that's our basic story. I'm sure the
board has some questions. Um, and I'll

257
00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:41,960
uh answer them best I can.

258
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,159
Does anyone on the board have any
questions?

259
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:55,200
I don't hear any yet. I just I'm I'm
still trying to grasp some of this

260
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:59,840
calculation stuff myself.
>> Sure. So, and I know you didn't do the

261
00:22:56,799 --> 00:23:05,600
whole it's it's the there were two What
is the square footage that was used um

262
00:23:03,679 --> 00:23:08,720
to do the calculation for the existing
dwelling? Do they count the lower level

263
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:12,559
because it's finished in that
calculation? I

264
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:16,799
» I believe they counted the entire tax
assessor's floor plan,

265
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:19,679
» right? But in a raise ranch, they
usually don't they wouldn't count the

266
00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:22,559
basement. No real estate broker would
count the basement. That's why I'm

267
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:25,520
trying to compare apples to apples.
Yeah, because you raised a very good

268
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:29,600
point with counting the basement. So,
I'm just wanted to know for this

269
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:34,880
calculation when the town
>> says, well, it's this percentage or

270
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,280
1,200, what percentage what what do we
use

271
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:42,880
» in this case? The the code says that the
maximum size of an ADU shall either be

272
00:23:39,679 --> 00:23:49,360
1,200 square feet or 60% of the size of
the primary dwelling, whichever is less.

273
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:55,039
In this case, the lesser number is 1,200
ft². So imagine that the the primary

274
00:23:52,159 --> 00:23:59,039
dwelling is large. Um but the 60% of
that number becomes irrelevant because

275
00:23:57,679 --> 00:24:02,400
we're working with
>> I just wanted to know if it wasn't

276
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:06,720
irrelevant
whether you would count the lower level

277
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,760
of a raised ranch in the square foot
calculation or not.

278
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:14,960
» Yeah, we do. Um
>> so we do apples to apples. We we we do

279
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:19,039
attempt to do apples to apples which is
um and as you've seen we've done ADUs

280
00:24:17,039 --> 00:24:24,240
where we do count the garage as part of
the square footage. Uh we're we're

281
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:28,320
drawing upon state law. Um our code
zoning code speaks like uses the same

282
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:32,240
language as state law. It doesn't use
the term living area. We're not m we're

283
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:36,400
not looking at the maximum living area
of the ADU. We're looking at the maximum

284
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:40,640
floor area. So, we've taken the position
that that includes decks, it includes

285
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:47,919
porches, it includes garages, it
includes basements. I think what um the

286
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:51,440
uh uh Mr. Cronin has just offered in
terms of an exterior entrance to the

287
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:55,440
basement, I think that for us was a key
consideration if they wanted to use the

288
00:24:53,840 --> 00:25:00,640
basement and consider the basement as
like general common property storage.

289
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:07,679
That's something that I can appreciate.
Um, it raises a a little bit of an odd

290
00:25:04,159 --> 00:25:11,039
variance uh notice question. Um, it
almost might be better for Mr. Cronin. I

291
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:17,520
think that's a valuable point. I think
we could still look at that. Here's the

292
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:22,880
issue. This is notified for a um uh the
idea is the ADU itself is part of a

293
00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:27,200
building. Right now, we're counting the
entirety of the building, all the floors

294
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:31,039
as ADU square footage. We've noticed
that the variance we're seeking is for

295
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,960
an ADU that's bigger. If we start to
look at the building as two separate

296
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:40,559
components, there's an ADU and then
there's a separate square footage that's

297
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:44,000
related to another thing. Someone might
argue that we should have two variances.

298
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:47,200
One is to have an ADU that's bigger than
the square footage. And let's just say

299
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:51,600
that number is 1,600 for sake of
argument. You still need a variance just

300
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:55,919
for the top floor. We have code that
says that no accessory structure

301
00:25:53,679 --> 00:25:59,760
regardless of its use should be bigger
than 12,200 square f feet. So now we're

302
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,360
triggering this multiple things
happening in the building at once. One

303
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:07,520
might argue we should have a variance
for the ADU size and a variance that the

304
00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:12,559
entirety of the structure is also bigger
than 12,200 ft. We've only noticed the

305
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:18,960
ADU for tonight's hearing.
>> It it could be that it's half dozen one.

306
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:22,080
» Yeah. you know, but I would suggest
maybe if they want the square footage,

307
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:26,000
we stick with it being under the
umbrella of the ADU, but I think that

308
00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:30,960
the counselor raises good points about
trying to um make sure the board

309
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:36,640
considers that that square footage may
not be as pressing as, for example, a

310
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:41,039
second floor of an ADU would look. That
makes sense.

311
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:45,919
The basement's 995, but I guess if it's
not part of the issue is going to get

312
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,640
clouded in my opinion, and I don't think
Mr. Cronin wants to use this as his test

313
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,960
case.
>> I do not. And uh that is why I indicated

314
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:56,720
that although I was preserving the
argument, I'm not going to press it

315
00:26:54,799 --> 00:27:00,880
tonight.
I uh I would like you to consider the

316
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:05,120
ADU in its entirety.
>> 2600 square feet for the whole thing.

317
00:27:03,279 --> 00:27:08,159
The only Yeah. Go ahead. Does anyone
else on the on the board have any

318
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,720
questions?
Okay. And we have this down for public

319
00:27:09,919 --> 00:27:14,000
hearing.
>> This is a public hearing. Yeah.

320
00:27:11,919 --> 00:27:17,760
» Okay. Um I don't want to make any
comments that are going to maybe sway uh

321
00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:22,320
comments in from from the audience, but
I do have a comment on these ADUs. Um is

322
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:26,400
there anybody I'm sorry.
>> Like to make a motion to open.

323
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:30,559
» We got we got a we got a motion to open
public hearing by Mr. Price. Do I have a

324
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:35,200
second? We have a second. All in favor?
I. Is there anyone in the audience that

325
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:39,919
is here to speak for or against this
application for a um variance for the

326
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:44,559
ADU?
I don't see anyone in the audience. Do

327
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:46,960
we have anyone on Zoom? And we still
have nobody in attendance on Zoom.

328
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:53,320
» No, there's two.
>> Two. Okay. Anyone want to speak on this

329
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:53,320
application? Please raise your hand.

330
00:27:53,919 --> 00:28:00,640
Let the record show there's no hands up
on Zoom. Um, with that said, uh, I'll

331
00:27:59,279 --> 00:28:02,720
entertain a motion to close public
hearing.

332
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:06,399
» Make a motion to close public.
>> I have a motion by Mr. Price to close

333
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:12,720
public hearing. Second by Mr. Kenny. All
in favor? I.

334
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:17,440
My the the layout of this is, in my
opinion, is good. It's It's great. I

335
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:21,840
just wonder as we start to approve
these, and I was thinking this the other

336
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:26,480
day, are we going to start getting
variances five or 10 years from now?

337
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:32,000
Hey, can I just subdivide the lot now? I
got two houses on one lot and I got, you

338
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:35,039
know, and I can't the dimensions aren't
going to work. I don't have enough

339
00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:39,279
frontage of about, you know, a few
thousand square feet or 20,000 square

340
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:43,120
feet for both houses because we've seen
a couple of them now. And basically, it

341
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:47,679
it's coming down to they're allowed,
state law allows it. The idea is to

342
00:28:45,039 --> 00:28:51,440
increase housing stock, but um I'm just
wondering how it's going to go five or

343
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:55,360
ten years from now when someone goes to
sell their property and it has two

344
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,720
houses on one lot and you know either
the price is going to be a factor or

345
00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,679
something's not going to work and
they're going to start coming and asking

346
00:29:00,159 --> 00:29:04,960
for variance. I I just caution you. It's
funny that you should raise that because

347
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:11,679
a Rhode Island Supreme Court case came
down this week in Newport that a 1994

348
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:16,399
restriction against further subdivision
was good that that they could, you know,

349
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:21,200
that the town could rely on that and say
no, you cannot further subdivide this

350
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:25,200
lot. Even though, of course, there are
new statutes, there's new ordinances,

351
00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:30,159
they said, you know, if they wanted to
appeal it, that was their chance. So,

352
00:29:27,679 --> 00:29:33,440
uh, it's an interesting point. But uh
just this week the Supreme Court said

353
00:29:31,919 --> 00:29:38,000
the town can rely
>> on that decision

354
00:29:35,919 --> 00:29:41,440
now presently
20 years later, 22 years later.

355
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,720
» Yeah. I'm going to and we do that
sometimes with some of the lots and the

356
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:47,200
other things that we we've done where
folks have come in and said, "Hey, can I

357
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,360
cut this or cut that? I need a
variance." And then no further

358
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:55,279
subdivision. Uh I'm not so inclined to
um

359
00:29:53,679 --> 00:29:58,960
consider that tonight. It was just a
comment because I can just, you know,

360
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:03,200
I'm just looking forward
>> um Okay. Does anyone else on the board

361
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:06,399
have any other questions or comments on
this?

362
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:13,840
» Yeah, I'm just I'm just looking at the
the calculations. So, the ADU as it sits

363
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:20,320
right now with all the plans and designs
is 2600 square feet. Correct.

364
00:30:17,039 --> 00:30:28,720
» Correct. And if they the conditions of
approval, if we eliminate

365
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:32,640
the proposed deck and the covered porch,
is that what's going to bring it down to

366
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:38,320
2,91.6
square ft?

367
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:45,039
» Um the deck and the porch to combined
are it looks like somewhere around 258.

368
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:48,000
» It is. And so, yeah, it'd be Yeah, it'd
be um

369
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:51,200
» that brings it down to 2,300
>> 2,300 or so.

370
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:56,240
» Yeah. So,
>> it'd be it'd still be well over. I'm

371
00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:02,080
going to give you my frank take on this.
My Frank Tank take on this is that um I

372
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:06,399
think the most important issue is what
you just got to Mr. Clooney, which is if

373
00:31:04,399 --> 00:31:11,440
we create ADUs that start to look like
two houses on one lot. I don't think

374
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:16,720
that's the case here because I think the
location of the ADU is prominently right

375
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:20,880
in the rear of the lot and the lot if it
was to be subdivided would require a

376
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:26,720
variance for the frontage. So when we
have if we have wide uh shallow lots and

377
00:31:24,159 --> 00:31:31,360
they do a big ADU then I think we start
to wonder does this start to look like a

378
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:34,880
uh two two units on one lot. I don't
think that's the case here. However,

379
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:39,679
what you're seeing is staff did think
the number 2600 seemed quite high. It's

380
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:43,919
over twice what the state limit is. It's
over twice what our zoning code limit

381
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:48,559
is. Staff kind of in their analysis gave
you some optionality for how you might

382
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:54,480
reduce it. I frankly don't think the
basement makes it look any bigger. You

383
00:31:51,039 --> 00:31:58,480
can't see it. So I'm not sure if we
we're giving you optionality if you wish

384
00:31:56,159 --> 00:32:03,600
to reduce the size. In this case, I
don't think the size renders this

385
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:08,559
particular ADU to appear that it's not
sub sub, you know, um, uh, ancillary um,

386
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:12,000
and subordinate. I think it looks
ancillary and subordinate. That's the

387
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,679
most critical component. Whether the
board feels inclined to reduce the size,

388
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,320
I think we're giving you some options on
what ways to do that.

389
00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:22,880
» Well, the reason I asked that question
is because the calculations don't work

390
00:32:20,559 --> 00:32:27,200
out because it said staff added the
following considerations. is the ADU

391
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:33,840
could be reduced to a maximum size of
2,91.6

392
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:40,960
ft. But if I take 258 from 2600, that's
2342

393
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:46,240
ft. So how do you get down to 291?
That that's my

394
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:52,640
» um the 291 is actually provided as
reference to what is 60% of the size of

395
00:32:50,159 --> 00:32:58,080
the primary dwelling. uh that's only
there for context. The idea is that if

396
00:32:55,440 --> 00:33:02,880
the applicant warranted extra credit for
the fact that the primary dwelling is

397
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:06,960
very big, then if you feel like he's got
a big primary dwelling, he should have a

398
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:12,799
little bit of a bigger ADU. That number
is just there to reference as that's

399
00:33:08,799 --> 00:33:17,440
what 60%. It the code is telling us you
have to go with the lesser number which

400
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:23,200
is 1,200. So code compliance is 1,200.
That 291 is just there to let you know

401
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,840
that's what would be 60% of the size of
the primary unit.

402
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,880
» It's just not
>> which would be what was the number that

403
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:33,440
would be 60% please.
>> 60% of the primary dwelling would be

404
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:38,480
2,91
square ft. So that's really that was

405
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:42,559
staff just offering some context on
>> if if it's a big primary house and you

406
00:33:40,399 --> 00:33:46,880
feel inclined to give this ADU a little
extra credit then that's what 60% of the

407
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,720
primary. Now you know why I wanted to
know whether they calculate with

408
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:56,240
included the basement in the is is the
is the house that they live in now or

409
00:33:53,600 --> 00:34:00,320
the existing house three three about
3,000 square ft and then does it include

410
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:03,600
the basement or not include the basement
cuz again I was trying to I'm trying to

411
00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:06,159
justify is this house going to look
bigger than the one in the front? It

412
00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:10,159
doesn't sound like it will.
>> It it won't look bigger. um the the

413
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,119
primary dwelling the the number we're
referencing is pretty close to 3500

414
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,240
square feet.
>> And I'm [clears throat] inclined to

415
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:20,879
agree with
the applicant's attorney that I think

416
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:27,040
aesthetics goes a long way to just
throwing up a boxy structure to meet the

417
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:32,159
the requirements when you're fitting it
into a neighborhood. And and similar to

418
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:36,480
the last application, as some of my
colleagues mentioned, we didn't have any

419
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:40,000
objections right now from the abutters
or the people that were noticed to come

420
00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:42,399
to this hearing about the size of the
dwelling.

421
00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:46,960
» Agreed. Yeah, I think that there's um
it's a large ADU. Um when you're looking

422
00:34:44,720 --> 00:34:50,159
at the staff analysis, I think we were
chopping this up a little bit to give

423
00:34:48,399 --> 00:34:52,800
some optionality if you wanted to reduce
size.

424
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:57,440
» I appreciate it. But I think that the
board is within their right to to look

425
00:34:54,639 --> 00:35:02,320
at the whole picture, which is um the
the lack of any noted opposition and the

426
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,040
fact that from the street, this
certainly won't come close to looking

427
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:13,440
like a two family or uh or two separate
units. That's my personal perspective.

428
00:35:11,839 --> 00:35:16,720
» Do I have any more comments from anyone
on the board? Anyone want to kind of

429
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:21,040
weigh in on this before we entertain a
motion? just

430
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:24,040
my estimate
um

431
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:32,560
this this paragraph says the 2091
described in the staff findings for the

432
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:37,599
above through the removal of the porch
and deck. So that's that's incorrect. It

433
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:43,280
would be 2342 if we remove the porch and
deck. Um, if it's 2091, now we're eating

434
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,920
into the structure, which means they
have to redesign the house

435
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:51,599
» or the garage
>> or the garage.

436
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:56,640
I personally don't have a problem with
removing number one and number two

437
00:35:53,920 --> 00:36:00,160
conditions of approval,
which means they don't have to take off

438
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:06,400
the deck and they don't have to take off
the porch because

439
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:12,160
that really has no effect.
I mean, I don't know if that's putting

440
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:16,079
us in a a situation down the road that
it's going to be a problem for us with

441
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:22,480
ADUs.
Um, as we said, the building at 2600

442
00:36:19,359 --> 00:36:27,520
square ft is including the basement,
which really isn't livable space unless

443
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:34,320
you finish it. But by putting that
outside bulkhead in, now you're making

444
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:41,040
it common storage space. So if you if
you technically take off the the 995

445
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:46,400
square feet, you're down to 165
square ft, which is only 400 above

446
00:36:43,839 --> 00:36:51,200
versus
double and more.

447
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:58,560
I don't know where that puts us by
arbitrarily picking how we look at it.

448
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:03,520
And do you have any weigh in on what I'm
talking about, Mr. Solicitor?

449
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:08,720
I would like to, but I I did not have I
didn't know this issue. I was going to

450
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:15,200
be down until Mr. Cody just mentioned it
to me in my ear a moment ago. Um, so I

451
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:20,079
do think at some point the count the
board needs to take a position. Um, are

452
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:24,160
they are they not going to include it
the basement? Forget the out the

453
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:29,839
additional structures. Right now, I'm
not hearing arguments against the um the

454
00:37:27,599 --> 00:37:35,119
» Yeah.
>> dog house or the um

455
00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:38,560
porch area, right? Are there arguments
against that as well?

456
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:43,040
» No, I I honestly leave I think the best
way to think about it is this. It does

457
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,560
not in my mind make sense to have this
app. We thought the basement should be

458
00:37:45,119 --> 00:37:51,839
included because the only way to reach
the basement is through the ADU. It's

459
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:55,440
almost as a precedent that I find that
we should make sure that ADUs include

460
00:37:53,440 --> 00:38:00,560
all the components that are part of it.
Um, that being said, I think you should

461
00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:04,240
stick with the concept that the relief
that's being sought is all under the

462
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,920
umbrella of an ADU that's too big to
break it up and say that part shouldn't

463
00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:11,839
include it. We we almost open up a can
of worms as to whe whether we notice

464
00:38:09,839 --> 00:38:16,960
this correctly. Now, it's up to the
board. I'm not bothered by the basement.

465
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:23,440
It's a lot of square footage, but to me
it doesn't impact the true issue here,

466
00:38:19,839 --> 00:38:28,640
which is does this unit look subordinary
and incidental to the primary house. The

467
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:31,839
basement can't be seen. I do think um I
asked the applicant if they had any

468
00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:34,720
intent to finish the basement, which I
think is a reasonable question to be

469
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:37,520
asking when we get these. They said that
wasn't their intent. If the board feels

470
00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:42,240
that you want to add a condition of
approval to that extent, you could.

471
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:45,200
That's up to the board. I think if
you're not touching the basement, the

472
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:49,839
idea is are you bothered by the front
porch or the rear deck to the degree

473
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:54,160
where you think those amenities make the
house look different than a subordinate

474
00:38:51,839 --> 00:38:58,720
incidental house? If they don't in your
mind, then I think you're well within

475
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:03,119
your right to approve it at 2600. Um,
you know, when we did our analysis, it's

476
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:07,040
it sometimes we're thinking that the
board may want some options to reduce

477
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:10,960
the size if the board is of the mind
that they think this is appropriate as

478
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:15,440
it's proposed. I don't have outstanding
concerns with approval as proposed.

479
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:19,119
» If they did decide to finish the
basement in the future, hypothetically,

480
00:39:17,839 --> 00:39:21,280
they would have to come back before the
board

481
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:25,839
» whether
I would say so. I would assume

482
00:39:23,599 --> 00:39:32,160
» ADU statute. Yes.
>> Yeah. I would actually, you know what's

483
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:36,079
very funny? I take the position that um
the ADU statute and state law doesn't

484
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,359
use the word living area. It just uses
the word floor area. We're taking the

485
00:39:37,839 --> 00:39:43,119
position that the basement is floor
area. So to be honest, them converting

486
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:47,599
the basement from an unfinished to a
finished, it doesn't impact the fact

487
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:51,119
that they were given an ADU this big. To
be honest, I think that unless this

488
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:54,640
board wishes to add a condition of
approval, they could finish the basement

489
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,320
without another variance. It's a
building permit away. To be honest,

490
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:02,640
that's up to the board if you wish to
add a condition of approval on something

491
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:06,640
with relating to the use of the
basement. That's I'll leave that for

492
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:10,560
your discretion. Um, I would say that
we're considering code that gives them

493
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:15,000
that square footage. Whether it's
finished or not, we're giving them the

494
00:40:11,839 --> 00:40:15,000
square footage.

495
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:25,200
Anybody else?
All right. So, my thoughts on this now

496
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:29,359
are 2600's what's before us. To render
an approval for anything less than that

497
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:34,800
is going to put the applicant in
jeopardy to some degree. Um, it's a full

498
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:40,880
basement. It's not like a raised ranch
where it's half light. So, um maybe

499
00:40:39,119 --> 00:40:46,560
they'll finish it, maybe they won't.
But, um I'm inclined to myself just

500
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:51,920
consider the application on the face of
the way it is. And as Mr. Kenny pointed

501
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:55,200
out, I don't know, um
why one would get stricken, but number

502
00:40:53,680 --> 00:41:01,839
two and the conditions of approval
would. Um

503
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:05,520
» and Okay. And you're okay with all the
other conditions of approval? Did you

504
00:41:03,119 --> 00:41:12,160
read what those were? Yep. Okay.
>> Okay. So, in unless we have uh more

505
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:15,800
discussion or future, um I'm I'm ready
to entertain a motion.

506
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:23,119
» Basement.
>> That's up to the members, but I I as I

507
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:26,240
said, I I don't have a concern. It's a
full basement. He's going to have

508
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:30,319
utilities down there.
>> Yeah. The way I look at it, it it's

509
00:41:27,599 --> 00:41:33,680
below ground. So whether they finish it
or not, that's uh as far as I'm

510
00:41:32,319 --> 00:41:36,480
concerned, they just have to go get
>> they're going to have utilities down

511
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:40,560
there, boil it down there, maybe a
washer dryer, I mean,

512
00:41:39,119 --> 00:41:45,040
» even if they finish part of it to make
it look nice and put exercise stuff down

513
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:47,440
there, what what do we care?
>> I think it's going to fit in with the

514
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:51,440
neighborhood. That's the most important
thing. So that's just my opinion. Okay.

515
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:57,720
So, with that being said, does um
>> chairman, I'd like to make a favorable

516
00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,720
motion to T togg

517
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:10,319
uh owner applicant Vincent and Alisa
Torborg, 100 Reservoir Road, Assessor's

518
00:42:04,720 --> 00:42:14,880
Plat 43, a lot 18, zone R20, lot size.97
acres. This is an existing family

519
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:21,119
dwelling, which they are going to be
adding an accessory dwelling unit. The

520
00:42:17,839 --> 00:42:28,240
applicants proposed to construct a 2600
square feet two-bedroom accessory

521
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:34,000
dwelling on their uh on their lot. The
applicants seek a dimensional variance

522
00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:40,240
as the ADU exceeds the maximum unit size
requirements. I'd like to include the

523
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:45,839
staff report with general approval
recommendation number two stricken from

524
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:49,839
the report.
>> I have a motion. Do I have a second?

525
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:54,179
» Second.
>> Second from Mr. Doo. Do we have any

526
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:59,280
further discussion on this application?
[clears throat]

527
00:42:55,119 --> 00:43:02,240
Hearing none. Uh, all in favor? I. Any
opposed? None opposed? I sat.

528
00:43:01,839 --> 00:43:08,240
» Thank you.
>> Uh, council, I'd like to add a second

529
00:43:04,319 --> 00:43:12,400
permit, a second approval for to allow
uh the application to move forward to

530
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:17,680
the building permit process.
>> Second.

531
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:22,079
» I have a motion by Mr. Price and me uh
second by member Studley to allow this

532
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:26,319
application to move to the building
permit stage.

533
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:30,800
Any discussion?
Hearing none. All in favor? I. Any

534
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:34,560
opposed? None. Now you're
>> Thank you.

535
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,240
Word and bill.
>> Good luck.

536
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:40,085
» Good luck.
>> Okay. What's next? [sighs]

537
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:47,960
» Yolks.
The Oaks Homeowners Association.

538
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:56,240
» Yes, sir. How are you?
>> Good. Name and address for the record.

539
00:43:53,440 --> 00:44:01,160
» Tyler Bosworth to Jack Sway. Um, I am
the president of the Oaks Homeowners

540
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,160
Association.

541
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:07,839
» Okay. And you are coming before us. I've
read the application. It sounds like

542
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:11,040
you're just trying to do a little
housekeeping, clean things up.

543
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:15,440
» Yep.
>> Yeah. So to speak. Um,

544
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,720
» I can give a quick
>> Yeah, that would be good just just just

545
00:44:17,359 --> 00:44:21,680
for the board. I mean, we have it in
front of us, but sometimes it's nice to

546
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:28,960
get
>> um the the the

547
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:33,760
uh declaration that was drafted that um
oversees the rules and regulations

548
00:44:30,720 --> 00:44:38,319
within the Oaks Homes Association was um
something that was uh put forth and

549
00:44:36,319 --> 00:44:46,240
filed with the town by Robert Duboce
building code. Um and

550
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:52,800
um he had a lot of stuff in there um for
when he was overseeing the board. Um uh

551
00:44:50,240 --> 00:44:58,160
but the way that it's written
when enough of the lots were sold and he

552
00:44:54,560 --> 00:45:03,440
handed the the you know the jurisdiction
of the board over to the community

553
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:07,920
members. Um it basically says that the
the board really has no uh

554
00:45:06,319 --> 00:45:11,920
responsibilities other than maintaining
the common grounds. Um if you read like

555
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:16,319
the beginning parts of it, it's like
anything with bylaws and rules and

556
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:23,680
regulations. It's it's homeowner to
homeowner or town to homeowner

557
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:30,880
compliance. The board really has no say
uh in in any of the stuff going on. So,

558
00:45:25,839 --> 00:45:33,920
there were a couple of of things that um
that were in the document that we were

559
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,440
just hoping to amend it just to make
things a little bit easier just to

560
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:43,520
maintain the relationship, maintain the
board stuff. And then also um what Bob

561
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:47,359
was approving and doing when he had
ownership of the board versus today

562
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:51,599
there's there's a little bit of
conflicting stuff there. So, it's really

563
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:55,520
two two addendums. Um he's got a section
in there about fencing and it describes

564
00:45:53,680 --> 00:46:01,920
particular fencing material that can be
used. Um it does not include vinyl.

565
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:08,480
Um but when he was overseeing the board,
he gave approval for people to install

566
00:46:03,839 --> 00:46:12,000
vinyl fencing. Um and we're there's a
lot of houses that have vinyl fencing in

567
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:17,920
the neighborhood. It looks nice. It
looks fine. Um, and we would just like

568
00:46:15,119 --> 00:46:23,760
to add vinyl to the list of approved
fencing material uh within our

569
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:28,480
development just to avoid any legal
issues of houses that already have it or

570
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:33,920
want to install it or or whatever the
case may be. So, that's one uh requested

571
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:39,520
addendum. Um, the first and I skipped I
went to the second one first. The first

572
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:49,359
one on on the list um is in regards to
uh out building out structures. Um

573
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:54,160
um it's written that while he is uh in
charge of the board any uh outuilding

574
00:46:52,079 --> 00:46:58,160
structure approval has to go through him
as well as meet you know to town

575
00:46:56,720 --> 00:47:05,680
compliance ordinance and all that stuff
but he has the the right to say yay or

576
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:11,200
nay. Um and then after he leaves it gets
handed over to the board. Um, but what

577
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:16,640
really isn't documented in there is what
constitutes the approval. Um, it's

578
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:20,560
really subjective and the way our board
works, it's just people that live in the

579
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:26,000
neighborhood and could be a different
group of people next year uh that are on

580
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:29,920
the board. And um, so we just like to
remove the board being responsible for

581
00:47:28,240 --> 00:47:34,240
the process of approving any of the L
structures and just leave it with the

582
00:47:31,119 --> 00:47:38,160
town. Um, so that way we don't run into
conflicts with,

583
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,480
» you know, objective opinions on what is
a good

584
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:44,240
» or the board has to have a meeting. They
don't meet for three months. Now the guy

585
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:47,440
can't get I you you understand he put
that in there because he's still trying

586
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:49,920
to sell the houses and all of a sudden
the guy next door just starts throwing

587
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:53,359
up the building.
>> Problem with with the original verbage,

588
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:56,960
just the last part about when you know
now the board is responsible for

589
00:47:55,200 --> 00:48:00,800
approving or denying feds and we just
don't think that that's something that

590
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:05,760
we should be involved with. So, so does
um anyone on the board have any

591
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:09,119
questions for the applicant
>> hearing? None. Um public hearing on this

592
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:12,640
one, too.
>> No. Um this is a an odd request we don't

593
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,160
typically get.
>> Okay. Yeah. Yep.

594
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,319
» Yeah. Okay. We it and it should be noted
that um it does call out what the

595
00:48:18,720 --> 00:48:28,160
official process is at the beginning of
our uh documentation. And it says that

596
00:48:23,119 --> 00:48:33,520
we have to get um uh signatures by a
majority of the members uh to approve uh

597
00:48:31,359 --> 00:48:38,319
the addendums as well as planning
commission approval. Um and we have a

598
00:48:37,119 --> 00:48:40,480
very minimal budget and
>> Oh, the changes these changes you're

599
00:48:40,079 --> 00:48:45,440
talking about?
>> Yes. Yeah.

600
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:49,359
» Yeah. So um so tonight's request is to
just formally

601
00:48:47,359 --> 00:48:53,280
get the approval from the planning
commission to Yeah. we agree with the

602
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:57,280
concept of these changes. We I will
still have to go back and collect the

603
00:48:55,200 --> 00:49:01,359
necessary signatures
um and then present them and file them,

604
00:48:59,839 --> 00:49:06,400
I'm assuming, with the town to actually
officially make these changes. So again,

605
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:10,800
tonight was just to get your guys, you
know, blessing. Yeah, it's it's fine.

606
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:14,559
You guys can move forward with Are you
okay? So if we vote on this tonight, I

607
00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:17,520
it'll go administratively after that.
You'll work with them to get Correct.

608
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,440
They don't have to come back. Frankly,
we don't have many HOAs that say that to

609
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:25,280
change their own HOA bylaws, they have
to come back to the planning. So, I

610
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:30,400
think this was an idea a previous
planning staff or commission had

611
00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:34,319
inserted. Frankly, we wouldn't recommend
having bylaws and HOA docs require

612
00:49:32,559 --> 00:49:36,480
coming back to the town. This one
happens to have it and we have no

613
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,880
issues.
>> This is Oaks, right? This is the

614
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:44,800
» not to be confused with the Oaks, too.
>> Yeah. No, this one we have no concerns

615
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:48,079
with the things they're changing. He
just happens to need a vote. Um, and so

616
00:49:47,359 --> 00:49:51,680
it's a very simple
>> Which oaks is this? Off Tyoke or Ho

617
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,800
Furnace? Which
>> it's Twood?

618
00:49:53,599 --> 00:49:59,280
» Twood Drive West. Yeah.
>> Okay.

619
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:03,760
» So, there was
>> it was another

620
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:06,960
subdivision cut through Road off Luba.
>> Yeah.

621
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:10,160
» That I guess the original developer
handed off and so he just named it Oaks,

622
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:16,880
too. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay. Um,

623
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:21,040
any further discussion from the Okay,
I'll entertain a motion then.

624
00:50:19,359 --> 00:50:25,200
» I'll make a motion to approve the
proposed changes to the declaration of

625
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:29,760
restrictive and protective covenants uh
for the oaks as presented.

626
00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:35,520
» I have I have a motion. I have a second.
A motion by member Stley, second by

627
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:41,599
uh member Kenny. Do we have any further
discussion? I didn't hear any. Okay. All

628
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:45,640
in favor? I. Any opposed? None. All set.
All right. Good luck, gentlemen.

629
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:51,280
» Wonder how many signatures he has to
get.

630
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:56,800
» Well, he knows he got some some good
ones because he was buying a fence.

631
00:50:52,960 --> 00:51:00,880
» Okay, so we are now up to item 9.2,
which is the zoning code updates. And I

632
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:04,319
think we've got some pressing matters. I
realize it's still fairly early, but

633
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:09,599
just out of an abundance of caution, I'd
like to switch up the agenda. Could I

634
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:18,960
have a motion to please uh move item 9.2
to uh to uh

635
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:22,400
to after item 10 and we will take up the
uh

636
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:24,960
10 point
you want 10.2 first or 10.1 or it

637
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:28,880
doesn't
>> let's do 10.1 I imagine it may be pretty

638
00:51:27,119 --> 00:51:32,240
quick and we do have an applicant here
for that

639
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:39,440
» oh okay I'm sorry okay so we'll I I'll
entertain a motion to move item 9.2 to

640
00:51:35,359 --> 00:51:45,119
um to after after items 10.
>> I'll I'll make a motion to move 9.2 to

641
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,040
after item 10 on the agenda.
>> I have a motion. Do I have a second?

642
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:52,480
» Second.
>> I have a second by member Stley. Motion

643
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:57,040
was by Mr. Kenny. All in favor? I. And
now uh we'll take item 10.1 ordinance

644
00:51:55,440 --> 00:52:01,680
2026-21
amending chapter 255 of the zoning

645
00:51:59,119 --> 00:52:09,359
article 5 zoning districts and zoning
district map reszoning 1119

646
00:52:06,319 --> 00:52:15,000
after general business from
must have been BP um Michael beard

647
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:28,680
» how are you
board on behalf of Mr. Beard attorney Al

648
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:28,680
Medisi Medici on behalf of Mr. Beard.

649
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:35,680
Okay,
I have to confess this is my first time

650
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:39,520
at a first read, so I'm not sure how how
you proceed.

651
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:42,880
» First, this is my first time at a at a
first read, so I'm not sure how you

652
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:48,079
proceed on on these matters.
>> Mr. Mediti, if you just want to give a

653
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:55,040
twominute overview of uh the proposal
that you're looking to do. Sure. So, uh,

654
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:58,960
Mr. Be is proposing to, um, he need have
the zone changed, uh, from plan

655
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:03,599
development to general business. Uh, his
intention is currently a building, an

656
00:53:01,359 --> 00:53:08,720
old kiosk from Citizens Bank. It's
being, uh, torn down. He already has his

657
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:15,200
a demo permit to take the building down.
Uh, it intentions to put up a 50 by 100,

658
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:19,800
uh, garage style storage building for
contractors could store their equipment

659
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,800
there.

660
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:27,599
Yep. Okay. And that's allowed by Wright
and the general business owners.

661
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:33,119
» That use is allowed by Wright. Um would
be worth noting as the board may be

662
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:37,359
thoughtful on um the uh aesthetics is
that this property would still be

663
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:43,280
subject to the special planning overlay
which uh would bring with it uh certain

664
00:53:40,559 --> 00:53:47,200
um aesthetic degrees. It talks about the
the building materials. It talks about

665
00:53:44,720 --> 00:53:51,920
pitched roofs. uh this property would
still be subject to that overlay. Um I

666
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:54,720
know it's it's likely it's a prominent
property and it will become more

667
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:59,920
prominent because of the development in
and around it. Uh we do have the

668
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:05,599
capacity to ensure that there's um uh a
streetscape uh appeal to the best degree

669
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:09,359
we can be aware of those conditions.
>> Yeah.

670
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:16,280
» And what's the um
how big is the lot?

671
00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:16,280
» It's fairly small.

672
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,359
1.3 acres.
>> And And what would be allowed in the

673
00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:26,800
business park zone?
>> When you say the business park, you mean

674
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:28,400
the BP zone? Are you talking Are you
referring

675
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:35,119
» PD? I'm sorry.
>> PD. So a PD zone is like a make your own

676
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:37,440
zone essentially. Um the that means or a
PUD. You might have heard that term

677
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:41,359
before.
>> I'm just trying to figure out what is he

678
00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:45,440
going to gain by switching this to
general business. What can he do here

679
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:49,440
now that he can't do? Because originally
that was all zoned

680
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:53,119
» for for planned development, at least
that's what it says, change from planned

681
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:57,200
development when they had the proposal
for the mixeduse development in there.

682
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:02,800
And now we've got 400 apartments going
in there using the same entrance. And

683
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:06,960
basically, Mr. Beard has an easement to
get to his property through what they're

684
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:13,200
building. And I'm just thinking
contractor trucks and equipment that

685
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:17,280
might be using um what could be
construed as an industrial use really. I

686
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:23,119
mean I I don't know what he's going to
be storing in there. Um so um couple

687
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:28,319
considerations. The PD zone as it's
zoned right now would only really allow

688
00:55:25,599 --> 00:55:32,559
him to uh achieve the same use within
the same building footprint. And when

689
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:38,000
this was zone PD they tied the zone to
the approved site plan at the time. So

690
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:44,640
essentially this was a zone that allowed
them to build exactly what they built.

691
00:55:40,319 --> 00:55:48,880
Um so the options are to either reszone
it to PD to something else which we're

692
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:55,760
kind of kicking the can to whatever he
wants to do. We're going to do it as a

693
00:55:50,799 --> 00:55:58,400
zone exercise and uh that is one option
but that's not the option they're

694
00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:03,440
seeking. What they're seeking is to turn
it back to a GB which is a generic zone.

695
00:56:01,119 --> 00:56:07,520
that zoning designation matches what
exists on Tyogg on both sides of the

696
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:11,359
street for the duration. So, we see it
as a fit because imagine that what

697
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:15,200
they're seeking to do is the same thing
that Burger King or any other lot that's

698
00:56:13,359 --> 00:56:21,119
in the vicinity could also seek to do.
They're going to be given the same range

699
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:24,799
of allowed uses across the GB zone. Um I
think it is worth noting because we're

700
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:29,599
aware that there's um new development in
and around the area that we would have

701
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:34,079
the tools. This would come back to the
board as uh either a major or minor land

702
00:56:32,319 --> 00:56:37,040
development. Likely a minor. Uh
actually, I take that back. It may not

703
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:41,119
come back to the board if it's a minor
land development, but the town will

704
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:45,599
still review the details of the minor
land development. We'll be able to

705
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:50,240
ensure that there's um good aesthetic
outcomes if because we do have the

706
00:56:48,799 --> 00:56:53,839
ability to suggest what building
materials can be used, the pitches of

707
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:58,480
roofs, and there's a code on
fenestration on windows. So I think um

708
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:02,640
out of the range of uses that are
allowed, we can at least ensure there's

709
00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:05,960
some good form, some good appearance of
the structures,

710
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:12,720
» right? And is the has the town done
anything with this ordinance? Do they

711
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:16,079
read it once and now we're making the
recommendation? They did.

712
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:21,040
» This got a this got a first reading last
night at the town council. Um, so it is

713
00:57:19,359 --> 00:57:26,799
in front of you for a recommendation and
then back in front of the town council.

714
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:30,319
I believe on September 22nd is when they
may shoot for a hearing, but it may not

715
00:57:28,319 --> 00:57:33,599
make it that quickly. Do you happen to
note in September 22nd? I believe it's

716
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:38,319
back in front of the council for
>> hearing. But did what do they do about

717
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:41,119
notice? Cuz the applicant for the abuing
parcel probably isn't the owner of

718
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:45,040
record.
>> Um, for notice, you don't mail a notice

719
00:57:43,599 --> 00:57:48,559
for a zone change like this. You
actually the notice occurs through the

720
00:57:46,559 --> 00:57:53,760
paper. So, there's a newspaper ad that
will be run three consecutive weeks to

721
00:57:50,799 --> 00:57:58,720
notify um actually I'll ask the
solicitor on a zone change because we

722
00:57:56,640 --> 00:58:02,559
haven't issued notice yet. Um this
recommendation is occurring as a

723
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:05,599
required step but a non-notice step
aside from the fact that our agenda

724
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:10,160
tells us what we're doing. It's the
hearing and for a zone change where

725
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:14,240
there um it's not a zoning amendment.
It's a it's a property zone change. the

726
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:19,040
solicitor might advise there is mailed
notice to a butters

727
00:58:16,319 --> 00:58:25,280
» if um the distinction is if it's a text
change it's just advertised in the

728
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:31,200
newspaper three successive weeks 14 days
you know on a series of uh notices but

729
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:35,440
if it's a map change and this would be a
map change it has to be both that

730
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:41,839
advertised in the newspaper three
successive weeks I believe 21 days and

731
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:48,400
also noticed uh surrounding the butt is
I think within 200 ft. You may have a

732
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:53,760
greater u notice section towns sometimes
have greater thing but the answer is

733
00:58:51,359 --> 00:58:57,520
nobody really the abuters are not aware
of this at this moment right they're

734
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:01,520
going to be aware of this at the public
hearing when it goes to the council

735
00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:06,720
» okay that's I just want to make sure
that our applicant who's we're going to

736
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:13,200
be back in front of us on September 14th
with

737
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:18,079
a extreme number of affordable or LMI
units to help the town meet their guide.

738
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:22,079
400 apartments is not going to say we
didn't expect that to go right in front.

739
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:26,400
» The um the applicant is aware of this
zone change. Both the applicants have

740
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:29,520
spoken. So they're both aware of you
answered my question.

741
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:32,400
» Yeah. And uh and this is considered a
map change. They're they're changing the

742
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:35,520
zoning map. So
>> So as far as you know, there wasn't any

743
00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:38,640
kicking and screaming and any objections
to this.

744
00:59:36,720 --> 00:59:40,880
» Um I can I can tell you that both the
applicants are aware of each other's

745
00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:45,920
proposals.
>> Okay. Thank you. We'll leave it at that.

746
00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:47,920
» I can attest to that fact as well that
I'm sorry.

747
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:50,920
» I can attest to the fact there have been
communication.

748
00:59:51,599 --> 00:59:56,599
Okay. Uh, anyone else have any
questions?

749
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:00,200
Hearing none.

750
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,319
» We're making a recommendation to the
town.

751
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:08,960
» Just make a recommendation. We're making
a recommendation of the town council

752
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:13,680
that they may proce or or to re to I'm
sorry to to pass an ordinance that

753
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:19,040
reszones
um that lot highlighted in yellow which

754
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:25,599
is where the citizens bank kiosk is in
front of the old commercial plaza

755
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:32,799
um to business general business as
opposed to planned development which

756
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:38,240
they have a a a right to do based on the
designation of a plan development.

757
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:41,680
» The I mean when you ask the question, do
they have a right to do it? They have a

758
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,599
right to seek a zone change. A zone
change is a legislative action. The

759
01:00:43,599 --> 01:00:51,440
council's the decision maker. There's
nothing guaranteed, but um it does have

760
01:00:48,559 --> 01:00:55,040
some logical sense in that. I don't
think that the applicant envisions

761
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:58,960
trying to build a bank in the exact same
footprint. This is really current zoning

762
01:00:57,040 --> 01:01:03,200
locks this in place for a very limited
range of options. the general business

763
01:01:01,359 --> 01:01:07,280
is really what surrounds the area. So,
we feel pretty comfortable that what

764
01:01:05,359 --> 01:01:12,400
they could build here could be built on
any other lot in the vicinity um along

765
01:01:10,319 --> 01:01:17,200
Tyoke. So, we feel comfortable it's
straightforward and we don't need the

766
01:01:14,319 --> 01:01:19,440
PD's tool to be used for this lot moving
forward.

767
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:23,359
» From what what I'm reading, it was
originally zoned general business.

768
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,839
» Yeah.
>> Prior and then was changed to plan

769
01:01:25,119 --> 01:01:28,240
development.
>> That's correct. Oh, they were going to

770
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,839
retail.
>> This was at one point this property was

771
01:01:30,079 --> 01:01:36,640
part of a larger proposal. They were had
a really complex development scheme

772
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:40,480
largely in the back to comp to do the
complex development scheme. They needed

773
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:44,559
a make your own zone. Then this property
got carved off and now this property

774
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:48,720
kind of lives as a remnant of an old
vision. Um and really I think this

775
01:01:46,960 --> 01:01:53,240
property should have more optionality
for the choices moving forward.

776
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:58,640
» Yes.
>> Just wanted to mention Mr. Price asked

777
01:01:56,319 --> 01:02:04,319
it. You actually have two votes. One, I
believe, is to um

778
01:02:02,319 --> 01:02:07,599
vote whether or not you think this
proposed change is consistent with your

779
01:02:06,319 --> 01:02:13,920
comprehensive plan. That's your
statutory obligation that has to go to

780
01:02:10,799 --> 01:02:18,000
the council. And then in addition to
that, you could make a positive or

781
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:22,160
negative. And the normally when people
when the boards find it consistent with

782
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:26,000
the comprehensive plan, they also make a
positive recommendation,

783
01:02:23,440 --> 01:02:29,119
» right? So they're they usually but
technically they're two different

784
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:35,920
they're two different votes
>> and it has and the change from the

785
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:42,640
change to general business is
um not included with what the applicant

786
01:02:39,839 --> 01:02:46,640
plans on putting on the site right now.
He has to come back for that application

787
01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:49,520
or go to
>> well unless he's got it by right

788
01:02:48,319 --> 01:02:52,240
» unless Yeah. So
>> he's got something by right. He might

789
01:02:51,119 --> 01:02:57,040
not be coming to you.
>> Come back to to planning whether it's

790
01:02:54,400 --> 01:03:01,760
» No, I disagree. I think he would go back
might have to just go to building or

791
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:05,280
» it would be my my assumption of what's
going to happen is the the what he's

792
01:03:03,839 --> 01:03:08,240
seeking to build does not need to be
incorporated into the zone change

793
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:12,319
because he's just doing a straight zone
change to a straight zone. Um the

794
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:15,520
application they're conceiving I assume
will end up being a minor land

795
01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:20,240
development which is commercial square
footage underneath 7500 square ft. minor

796
01:03:18,319 --> 01:03:25,119
land developments go to TRC and they get
administrative decisions, but all of TRC

797
01:03:22,559 --> 01:03:30,480
reviews it. They all comment on it and
uh this applicant uh will have to uh

798
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:33,920
attest to the the general business code
as well as that overlay code that has

799
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:38,319
the aesthetic oversight.
>> So So you you will have involvement.

800
01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:44,480
» Yeah. Yeah. This application it will
result in a in a formal application. um

801
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:48,480
TRC will review it and uh assuming it
stays as a minor um planning the

802
01:03:46,799 --> 01:03:50,640
administrative officer will decide.
>> Okay.

803
01:03:48,799 --> 01:03:54,079
» And I and then I would note with all
zone changes because we've done a

804
01:03:52,079 --> 01:03:59,119
handful of them. There are required
findings. Um the you'll see in the staff

805
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:02,079
memo we call out towards the end the the
required findings, there's two of them.

806
01:04:00,480 --> 01:04:05,359
One is that it it is consistent with the
comprehensive plan. The other required

807
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:11,119
finding is that it's consistent with the
purposes of zoning. Um, we've made the

808
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:14,319
required findings and uh, it's up to the
solicitor might determine that the

809
01:04:12,799 --> 01:04:20,319
findings should get their own vote, but
we've typically done it as a singular

810
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:24,079
vote to recommend in a certain direction
to the council and acknowledge for the

811
01:04:22,319 --> 01:04:29,319
record that you concur with the findings
in the memo. If that makes sense to you.

812
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:33,079
» Yep.

813
01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:41,359
» Oh, I didn't think I had that. That's
why I'm asking all these questions. Can

814
01:04:38,240 --> 01:04:46,160
I just see that?
Either that or I misplaced it.

815
01:04:44,319 --> 01:04:51,799
I'm sorry. Just give me a second. I I
didn't see this um in the packet.

816
01:04:55,760 --> 01:05:00,760
» Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, I got
that part. Yeah.

817
01:05:08,079 --> 01:05:15,359
might be helpful. I think the um the
planner had indicated that the

818
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:21,119
properties
also running on either side of that

819
01:05:18,079 --> 01:05:24,559
Tyogre Avenue are all GB.
>> Yeah, if you look at the map on the

820
01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:28,319
screen, everything in gray is GB.
>> No, no, I'm I'm fine. I Yep. I'm

821
01:05:26,720 --> 01:05:32,960
familiar with that. I'm just trying to
gauge as I said the the this is where

822
01:05:31,039 --> 01:05:38,000
again there was a plaza there there were
multiple stores citizens comes wants to

823
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:42,079
put a kiosk there they didn't even ask
for access off tyio gap they got an

824
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,799
easement they were they complemented
each other you had a bank in the

825
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:48,799
shopping center I mean that's just the
way they did thing what I was trying to

826
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:52,720
determine from this map is if in fact
there's there looks like there's legal

827
01:05:50,559 --> 01:05:57,760
access to tyoke but the physical access
is constrained by some type of

828
01:05:55,440 --> 01:06:01,119
» that's correct there's wetland
constraint there.

829
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:05,200
» That's where you see the wetland curls
right in front of the property and then

830
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:10,079
it goes into a covert. It the there's a
physical constraint um where they can't

831
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:12,960
have direct access on Tyogg and the
property does have there's cross

832
01:06:11,359 --> 01:06:17,520
easements so the property does have
easement access through the larger lot.

833
01:06:15,119 --> 01:06:21,920
Um both this has been discussed both of
the two applicants are aware of it. Um

834
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,799
they're both aware of these pending
actions. They're both aware of the dates

835
01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:29,359
that they can attend each other's
meetings if they wish to add comment and

836
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:34,240
they're both aware to comment to me. I
haven't received comment negatively from

837
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:39,880
either of these two parties on the other
application.

838
01:06:36,880 --> 01:06:39,880
» Okay.

839
01:06:39,920 --> 01:06:46,720
» And if whatever whatever act whatever
construction they wanted to do their use

840
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:51,839
now they would have to demonstrate to
the planning department that they have

841
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:54,559
permanent physical access. So, the
point's well taken.

842
01:06:52,720 --> 01:07:00,799
» Oh. Oh, they definitely do. I'm just
trying to figure out again what what is

843
01:06:57,280 --> 01:07:07,440
going on this property. I mean, M. Mr.
Beards put up a number of these um lodge

844
01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:10,640
buildings for storage. And again, we
don't know exactly what's going there or

845
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:16,319
the dimensions, but that type of
facility um he he was taking boats in

846
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:20,000
for the winter because it was cheaper
than shrink wrapping or you got

847
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:23,119
landscapers coming in with trucks. and I
was just trying to figure out how that

848
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:27,200
was going to be compatible. If he
doesn't have road front andage, he's not

849
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:29,839
necessarily looking for retail. Um,
there's probably some things that would

850
01:07:28,640 --> 01:07:33,520
go there that would complement the
apartments, but that's not our business.

851
01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:37,760
That's that's up to the applicant. But I
just want to make sure we're not doing

852
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:43,520
anything that facilitates something that
may have a negative con consequence. But

853
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:46,799
the question was answered. The a butter
will have an opportunity to go to the

854
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:50,240
town council hearing if they have any
objections or want some further

855
01:07:48,319 --> 01:07:53,559
restriction on it. So, we'll we'll let
it play out.

856
01:07:54,079 --> 01:08:02,480
That said,
any anyone else have questions? If not,

857
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:07,680
I'll entertain a motion.
>> I'll make a motion that the planning

858
01:08:05,119 --> 01:08:13,680
board forward a positive recommendation
to the town council

859
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:23,279
on uh the matter of the proposed zone
change for AP28, lot 3.1. Um, and in

860
01:08:18,159 --> 01:08:28,880
that I also make a motion that the
planning board adopt the findings of

861
01:08:25,839 --> 01:08:34,880
fact as laid out in the staff report.
Those being that the zone changes

862
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:40,560
consistent with the comprehensive plan
and that um it is consistent with the

863
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:46,480
purposes of zoning as presented in
452430.

864
01:08:43,199 --> 01:08:52,480
» That cover it. Okay. Uh, I have a
motion. Do I have a second? I have a mo

865
01:08:48,799 --> 01:08:57,120
motion by Vice Chair Studley and me uh
second by member Price. Any further

866
01:08:55,440 --> 01:09:02,000
discussion? I know I've asked sound like
a broken record, but hearing none. All

867
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:06,880
in favor? I. Any opposed?
>> None.

868
01:09:03,359 --> 01:09:12,880
» All set. Thank you for your time.
>> I know I took a while. Okay. So, now we

869
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:17,600
go to 10.2.
amendment to housing and land use

870
01:09:14,560 --> 01:09:24,640
chapters of the locally adopted 2026
comprehensive plan.

871
01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:27,440
And this is a public hearing. Um, do you
want me to open the public hearing and

872
01:09:25,920 --> 01:09:29,920
then you give opening remarks or do you
want to give us some opening remarks and

873
01:09:28,719 --> 01:09:33,080
then I'll go to public hearing? It
doesn't matter.

874
01:09:33,759 --> 01:09:43,040
» Kyle, is there anyone on Zoom?
>> There are four people.

875
01:09:40,239 --> 01:09:45,920
Um, I'll give brief remarks. Okay. Thank
you.

876
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:52,480
» And uh I'll just uh suggest that what's
in front of you are amendments to the

877
01:09:49,440 --> 01:09:58,320
comprehensive plan that we recently
adopted. Uh you may recall this board uh

878
01:09:56,239 --> 01:10:02,800
made a favorable recommendation on the
comprehensive plan. Um was that late

879
01:10:00,640 --> 01:10:08,880
April?
And uh that comprehensive plan without

880
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:13,520
change was adopted by the town council.
Uh we've always known along the way that

881
01:10:11,280 --> 01:10:17,760
we felt that the housing element of the
the housing chapter of the comprehensive

882
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:22,640
plan uh could have been greatly improved
and we uh achieved funding to do that.

883
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:26,640
It just happened that we both wanted to
get our comprehensive plan over the

884
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:31,679
finish line for a variety of reasons not
related to the housing chapter, but we

885
01:10:29,199 --> 01:10:36,480
also wanted to take advantage of uh the
resources we had to write the housing

886
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:40,560
chapter in a more robust way. Uh we've
been able to do that. Um the full

887
01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:44,400
comprehensive plan is still in a
statewide planning comment period.

888
01:10:42,719 --> 01:10:48,880
Essentially statewide planning approves
these uh the comment uh I wouldn't say

889
01:10:47,199 --> 01:10:54,320
it's the comment period. It's it's their
fivemonth review period. Um we they're

890
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:59,040
very aware that we're rewriting the plan
while they're currently reviewing it and

891
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:03,360
that they understand that we will have a
fully rewritten housing chapter. Um, as

892
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:08,960
it relates to the housing chapter, we
did have some other changes to the land

893
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:16,080
use chapter that included um, uh, a new
buildout analysis. Um, and that included

894
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:21,840
some other uh, associated changes to uh,
the land use chapter related to um,

895
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:25,520
future growth um, particularly in the
future land use map categories uh, and

896
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:29,840
discussion of future land use map
categories. So, um, long story short, it

897
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:36,960
is a full rewrite of the housing
chapter. This was subject to public

898
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:41,199
input. Um, this also, um, referred to,
uh, stakeholder input we had with

899
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:46,960
housing experts. This, uh, relied upon
public input we gathered through a

900
01:11:43,199 --> 01:11:51,199
communitywide survey. Um, we feel it's a
it's a strong document. it does do what

901
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:56,480
we wanted, which was taking a housing
chapter that we felt was um fairly

902
01:11:54,080 --> 01:12:00,320
substandard and may not have ultimately
achieved statewide planning approval

903
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:06,960
because at that point we had pretty uh
dated uh data and information we were

904
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:12,239
relying on. This is updated data. It's
uh policy framework that relies on our

905
01:12:09,840 --> 01:12:18,159
current decision makers. Um we feel it's
a strong document. Uh that's enough from

906
01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:22,000
me. We can either see if there's public
comments and go from there or if the

907
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:25,920
board has initial questions I can help
answer.

908
01:12:24,159 --> 01:12:30,640
» Make a recommendation to open it to
public comment.

909
01:12:27,440 --> 01:12:38,800
» I have a recommendation to from Mr.
Price to open public hearing. I'm sorry.

910
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:42,800
Motion uh and a second by Mr. Kenny. All
in favor?

911
01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:50,480
» I. Any opposed? None. Okay. Public
hearing is open. Is there anyone in the

912
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:55,199
audience that wishes to speak on the uh
draft of the

913
01:12:52,719 --> 01:13:01,360
proposed draft housing chapter for the
town's comprehensive plan?

914
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:05,920
And I don't see anyone anyone on Zoom
wants to comment on the housing chapter

915
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:11,239
that's proposed. It's a draft to the
comprehensive plan. Please raise your

916
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:11,239
hand.

917
01:13:11,440 --> 01:13:19,320
No.
No, no comments. How about the board?

918
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:29,760
No, no.
All the work done up front must be uh

919
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:34,480
sufficient for it to be this smooth at
the end.

920
01:13:32,239 --> 01:13:39,600
» Yeah, the chairman. I'd like to make a
motion to close public hearing.

921
01:13:38,159 --> 01:13:43,600
» Okay. I have a motion to close public
hearing by member Kenny. Do I have a

922
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:48,719
second? I have a second by member Dude.
All in favor? I

923
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:54,080
» Okay. Any anything else to add before we
uh go to You just want to

924
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:58,719
» No, I'm uh I've given you everything I
need. Um I would just note you've got a

925
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:02,880
a a planning department memorandum.
There are required findings and

926
01:14:00,719 --> 01:14:08,400
essentially you can make your motion
based on that. Um we are ultimately uh

927
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:12,480
just forwarding a recommendation to the
town council. The council will hold its

928
01:14:10,080 --> 01:14:16,880
own hearing. We anticipate for any of
those listening in or uh reviewing this

929
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:21,199
meeting after the fact, we anticipate
that council hearing will be September

930
01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:25,199
22nd and that would be subject to an
additional round of public notice. So,

931
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:31,040
you can always keep your eyes out for
future council agendas and the ads, but

932
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:35,840
we anticipate September 22nd hearing by
the council as the final step on these

933
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:40,960
amendments.
>> Okay. And just to clarify, the state is

934
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:45,760
currently reviewing our comprehensive
plan and this will just be supplemented

935
01:14:42,960 --> 01:14:50,800
to that is if it passes and they will
just continue with their review and

936
01:14:47,840 --> 01:14:52,080
hopefully um we'll hear from them in
some time.

937
01:14:51,520 --> 01:14:57,280
» That's correct.
>> In the future and then the lift's over.

938
01:14:54,800 --> 01:15:00,719
Okay. Um Okay. So, you're looking for a
motion to make a favorable

939
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:06,480
recommendation to the town council to
include this uh housing chapter in the

940
01:15:04,400 --> 01:15:11,120
comprehensive plan and to incorporate
your um staff report

941
01:15:09,280 --> 01:15:14,320
» for and for the record uh the housing
chapter and edits to the land use

942
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:18,800
chapter as well.
>> Okay.

943
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:23,199
I'll entertain a motion if someone
chooses to make one. Mr. Mr. Chairman,

944
01:15:21,679 --> 01:15:30,320
I'd like to make a positive
recommendation to the town council for

945
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:36,560
the comprehensive plan update
for housing and land use. Um, that is

946
01:15:34,480 --> 01:15:41,000
consistent with our state goals as set
forth in RGI 4522-3.

947
01:15:45,679 --> 01:15:51,679
» I have a motion. Do I have a second? And
yeah,

948
01:15:49,679 --> 01:15:55,159
» I'd like to court the planning
department memorandum

949
01:15:57,679 --> 01:16:04,880
» and I have a second from member Luca.
Uh, any further discussion?

950
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:11,040
I would just add the draft that we have
in front of us tonight is dated August

951
01:16:06,800 --> 01:16:15,679
19th, 2026. Just to make sure there's no
misunderstanding.

952
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:20,320
That said, all in favor?
>> I do. I have any opposed? None opposed.

953
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:24,320
Motion carries. Thank you very much.
>> Yep, we got that done. And now the next

954
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:29,040
thing is discussion on zoning code
updates.

955
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:34,960
» Yeah. So, um, this one, uh, Heather,
you're all set. Thank you very much. Um,

956
01:16:32,239 --> 01:16:38,640
yep. Um, this one can take as much or as
little time as we choose, although I

957
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:42,800
would note I'd like to give it enough
time to to get some feedback from you

958
01:16:40,719 --> 01:16:48,880
and allow our consultant to take some
next steps. Jim Rearen is here uh, from

959
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:54,480
Weston and Samson. Um, we've done a lot
of uh code work. A lot of it has been

960
01:16:51,920 --> 01:17:00,000
with uh Ashley of Weston and Samson
who's out on uh a sick leave at the

961
01:16:56,400 --> 01:17:06,000
moment. So Jim's uh filling in. Uh these
are some old MTAP projects. Uh the

962
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:09,679
long-standing board members will recall
we've had discussions about what we

963
01:17:07,760 --> 01:17:16,159
wanted to do with multifamily and two
family. We sat around maps. We talked

964
01:17:12,320 --> 01:17:23,760
about different concepts. Um, so and
long-standing board members will also

965
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:29,600
recall that on January of 2024,
um, we effectuated, uh, zoning code

966
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:34,320
changes to essentially remove every use
that was allowed through a special use

967
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:38,239
permit in town. Um, those two issues,
the idea of let's bring back multif

968
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:44,000
family and two family and how and where
is it appropriate? That's a big

969
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:48,080
question. And uh the other is all these
uses that we previously allowed, you're

970
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:51,920
seeing a big chunk of them. This is
we've we've seen some come back in drips

971
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:56,000
and drabs. You've seen gas stations come
back. Uh you saw kennels come back that

972
01:17:54,320 --> 01:18:00,880
those individual ones came back because
there were uh parties that were

973
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:06,080
interested in pursuing them, but what
we're looking at is also broad strokes.

974
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:11,280
There's many uses and we're trying to
sort out how do we bring them back? Um

975
01:18:09,120 --> 01:18:16,159
and so those two big issues which are
really kind of independent separate

976
01:18:12,719 --> 01:18:20,800
issues they were independent separate um
uh funding projects that we got we this

977
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:24,800
these consulting uh work that we gained
with assistance from the state. We're

978
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:28,000
trying to wrap it all up by the end of
this calendar year. Really that's the

979
01:18:26,400 --> 01:18:34,159
target is we have to close these
projects before uh December 31st. Um, we

980
01:18:32,239 --> 01:18:37,840
envision that these two items, the
multifamily and bringing back the uses

981
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:44,400
previously allowed through special use
permit, they're uh something that we can

982
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:49,600
uh have conversations over the next um
three up to three planning commission

983
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:53,760
meetings. So, we've got time tonight and
then we're going to set a little bit of

984
01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:57,040
time in our September meeting and set a
little bit of time in our October

985
01:18:55,040 --> 01:19:01,520
meeting. The consultant's goal is to get
enough feedback from you tonight so that

986
01:18:59,360 --> 01:19:06,800
they can start putting pen to paper and
drafting code that you might be able to

987
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:10,239
see. Um, you also might say, "I have uh
some questions. I maybe want to see some

988
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:13,199
research done in a certain area." Well,
they might be able to do that research

989
01:19:11,679 --> 01:19:18,000
and come back with answers to those
questions at the next meeting. with the

990
01:19:15,120 --> 01:19:23,120
idea by the end of this we hope to have
draft code that we're fairly satisfied

991
01:19:20,640 --> 01:19:28,000
with on our level that we can consider
then moving forward in a formal sense

992
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:33,679
with uh the town council and and putting
the the the code into a formal ordinance

993
01:19:30,480 --> 01:19:39,760
format. So that's probably enough from
me to start. Um, I do think that, you

994
01:19:37,840 --> 01:19:43,280
know, those of you who have, you know,
these are big packets, so I don't know,

995
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:48,800
you know, you may have only had a chance
to skim some of these. I think out of

996
01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:52,320
the two discussions,
um, either the multif family, two family

997
01:19:50,480 --> 01:19:57,520
being one of them, the special use
permit uses being the other. I'd

998
01:19:54,640 --> 01:20:02,480
recommend we start with the multifamily.
Um,

999
01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:09,360
and the the the very brief memo that we
have, it's a

1000
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:14,880
three-page memo. Um, it outlines the
basic concepts that the planning

1001
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:20,800
commission has established with what it
wants to see. I'm going to say that we

1002
01:20:17,679 --> 01:20:24,560
understand that the planning commission
wants to consider reallowing these uses.

1003
01:20:23,199 --> 01:20:28,320
There was always the intent that we
would make sure that somehow multif

1004
01:20:26,400 --> 01:20:34,320
family and and two families would come
back. There's been a strong concern

1005
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:38,640
about um allowing those in any way,
shape or form that would increase uh the

1006
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:44,080
baseline density that could be achieved
on a parcel if we and I think a lot of

1007
01:20:41,440 --> 01:20:47,280
the rationale for that has been we all
have seen many comprehensive permits.

1008
01:20:45,679 --> 01:20:51,440
It's a predominant development tool in
the state. If we do any underlying

1009
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:55,120
zoning changes that allow someone to
achieve greater numbers of units through

1010
01:20:53,040 --> 01:20:59,679
underlying zoning, a comprehensive
permit can build on top of that and get

1011
01:20:57,120 --> 01:21:03,440
a greater outcome by adding the state
density to our underlying zoning. So,

1012
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:07,840
we've held a policy that we've kind of
called even Steven, which is let's allow

1013
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:13,280
the uses, but let's ensure that our
zoning um does not increase the ability

1014
01:21:10,800 --> 01:21:18,000
to create more units than the underlying
zoning currently does. that can be a

1015
01:21:15,679 --> 01:21:21,520
little limiting and restrictive, but I
understand that we're taking a

1016
01:21:19,120 --> 01:21:25,280
conservative posture uh to really make
sure that comprehensive permits don't

1017
01:21:23,040 --> 01:21:30,719
get additional units from what they
already are allowed to seek. Um so that

1018
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:33,760
even Stephen is a basic component of all
this. There's other components you've

1019
01:21:32,159 --> 01:21:37,840
talked about. You you didn't love the
concept of multifamily coming in big

1020
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:41,840
buildings. You like the idea that you
could allow the use but do it in in in

1021
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:48,960
multiple smaller buildings instead of
one big one. And uh one very open-ended

1022
01:21:46,480 --> 01:21:52,880
question was what do we want to do for
multif family or two family in our

1023
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:57,520
commercial zones? We don't currently
allow residential at all in our

1024
01:21:55,120 --> 01:22:02,080
commercial zones, but we're seeing a lot
of interest in developing commercial in

1025
01:22:00,159 --> 01:22:05,360
our or I'm sorry, developing residential
in our commercial. You're seeing it with

1026
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:09,920
the comprehensive permits. You're seeing
comprehensive permits take place in our

1027
01:22:08,320 --> 01:22:14,080
uh commercial districts. You're seeing
the business park which has all of the

1028
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:19,120
receiverhip parcels. It does turn out
that our commercial zones are receiving

1029
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:24,639
a lot of interest and a lot of units but
there's not a underlying byright um

1030
01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:29,040
codified way for people to do it. So
while we think about how we allow these

1031
01:22:26,320 --> 01:22:32,719
uses in our perhaps the R20 our densest
residential we should be thinking about

1032
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:37,280
what do we want to do in our commercial
districts and our industrial districts

1033
01:22:34,719 --> 01:22:41,440
as well. So I'll leave it there. The
goal tonight is to get your feedback. Uh

1034
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:46,320
if you review the memo and you review
the bullets at the top of page two,

1035
01:22:44,239 --> 01:22:51,360
which really calls out those kind of
basic parameters that this board had

1036
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:55,280
established, probably a year to a year
and a half ago is the last time we ever

1037
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:59,360
discussed this. Uh if you feel good
about those basic parameters, if you

1038
01:22:56,960 --> 01:23:05,080
want to add context, if you don't feel
good about them, that's what we want to

1039
01:23:01,760 --> 01:23:05,080
hear from you.

1040
01:23:10,000 --> 01:23:13,000
So

1041
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:21,040
limiting the maximum number of dwelling
units within an individual multif family

1042
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:26,320
to six that excludes
like compliments, right? I mean cuz I'm

1043
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:28,480
I'm not opposed to apartment buildings
as long as they're cited in the right

1044
01:23:27,920 --> 01:23:34,880
spot.
>> Fair enough. Yeah, we um this all of

1045
01:23:31,440 --> 01:23:38,639
this is the assumption is that um it
does exclude comp permits. A comp permit

1046
01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:45,199
is allowed to essentially not follow
zoning. This is our choice to make a

1047
01:23:42,719 --> 01:23:50,080
compelling code that someone that wanted
to do multif family would have a choice

1048
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:54,960
in our underlying code. We felt and I
think this was specifically thinking

1049
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:58,560
about R20. Let's just say there's a 10
acre lot in the R20 zone. There's not

1050
01:23:57,199 --> 01:24:01,840
many, but there are a few here and
there. Uh, underlying zoning would

1051
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:08,960
suggest you could get 20 units out of
that lot. Um, the concept is the board

1052
01:24:06,159 --> 01:24:13,360
felt if we're in an R20, it's largely
going to be surrounded by single family.

1053
01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:18,320
The board felt more comfortable if
you're going to give 20 units, let's do

1054
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:23,600
three smaller buildings of six units and
make it more townhouse oriented than one

1055
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:29,920
big building of 20 units. That was
previous context and feedback. The board

1056
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:35,280
may feel differently now. You may feel
like, "No, I'm open to having a 20 unit

1057
01:24:32,560 --> 01:24:39,040
in one building larger scale apartment
complex." Um, we're looking for your

1058
01:24:37,679 --> 01:24:45,600
feedback if that's
>> it. It's hard for a one-sizefits-all. I

1059
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:50,560
do not have
any objection to a high-rise apartment

1060
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:54,800
building three or four stories. I mean,
they're going in. They they have them in

1061
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:58,639
other cities and towns. We're seeing
them get developed. They got nice

1062
01:24:56,480 --> 01:25:03,360
facade. Sometimes they have a a meeting
space. There's a demand for that type.

1063
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:06,000
And and in fact, if you head towards
West Warick on the right hand side,

1064
01:25:04,719 --> 01:25:10,320
there's an apartment building in the
back. And then they've got a few elderly

1065
01:25:07,760 --> 01:25:20,000
highrises in West Warick. And then here,
we don't really have that I can think of

1066
01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:22,880
any high-rise structures. Um,
so that's my point, but I don't want to

1067
01:25:21,760 --> 01:25:26,159
say, oh, it's going to be allowed in the
R20 zone because, as you just said,

1068
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:29,199
somebody may have 10 acres in the middle
of two different residential plats where

1069
01:25:27,679 --> 01:25:32,880
it's predominantly surrounded by single
family, not a good fit. And someone

1070
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:36,719
might come in and say, it doesn't really
matter. I can fit it in there. Whereas,

1071
01:25:34,639 --> 01:25:42,560
if it's got its own access, let's say
off a um a major artery road, and you

1072
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:45,600
just got to go in and it opens up, and
there's, you [clears throat] know,

1073
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:51,120
there's not a lot of abuing properties.
it can be screened properly and it might

1074
01:25:48,239 --> 01:25:56,719
work. So, how do you do they still have
an option to come in for some type of

1075
01:25:53,920 --> 01:26:00,880
variance or other um that was would be
how it would have to might have to go to

1076
01:25:58,159 --> 01:26:03,840
the town council or get a a PUD or
something like that. So, as long as

1077
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:07,440
there's a mechanism, I just don't want
to

1078
01:26:05,120 --> 01:26:12,639
» close the door on those types of things.
No, I think that you wouldn't. It is

1079
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:17,120
true that you could create code that
anybody can seek a variance from and

1080
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:20,400
then ultimately you are the decision
maker on variances as it would be

1081
01:26:18,719 --> 01:26:24,400
related to multif family projects
>> because as we said and I'm sorry the

1082
01:26:22,239 --> 01:26:28,880
reason I we talked about the compliments
but there could be a time when we don't

1083
01:26:27,360 --> 01:26:32,400
have to consider compromise anymore
because we met our housing goal

1084
01:26:30,480 --> 01:26:35,760
» that and they won't become right and
then they can't come in on that. So now

1085
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:40,080
what mechanism do they have? If somebody
wants to put up an apartment complex and

1086
01:26:38,159 --> 01:26:45,360
there's actually a demand for it and
it's a good fit, they can come in and

1087
01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:49,520
they just got to
dot the eyes, go for the right changes

1088
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:52,000
and either reszone the lot or something
like that.

1089
01:26:50,159 --> 01:26:55,440
» Yeah. Um so I mean what we're
considering I think the the probably the

1090
01:26:54,239 --> 01:27:00,400
biggest challenge is how would we want
to handle this in the R20? I do think to

1091
01:26:57,840 --> 01:27:05,600
be honest I get a sense the board might
be open to these uses in the commercial

1092
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:09,120
districts but the challenge is how do we
want to handle it when we know that the

1093
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:13,120
large context around it would be our
single family neighborhoods and if we

1094
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:17,040
find a solution we're happy with there
it probably looks easier to then turn to

1095
01:27:15,679 --> 01:27:22,159
our commercial and say what are we
comfortable with there as comparison I

1096
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:26,800
think you look at it as a 10acre parcel
you could do 20 single family houses

1097
01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:32,159
there so we would say even Stephen
you're allowed to do 20 multif family

1098
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:36,560
units. The thought is, okay, you might
say, I'm comfortable with that as long

1099
01:27:34,400 --> 01:27:40,239
as you give me
uh you you you you site it on the right

1100
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:43,440
area of the lot. And that's one of the
tenants we talked about. If you want to

1101
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:47,520
do multif family, there might be a
minimum distance to the nearest single

1102
01:27:44,960 --> 01:27:51,600
family. So, you're not putting the the
multifamily, you know, right on one side

1103
01:27:49,679 --> 01:27:56,159
of the property or the other. You put it
in a way that is separate from the

1104
01:27:53,520 --> 01:27:59,520
existing single family. Um, we've talked
about a number of different things where

1105
01:27:57,679 --> 01:28:03,760
people were, you know, maybe you would
be comfortable with small buildings, a

1106
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:08,159
series of like, let's say it's three
buildings with six units each. It looks

1107
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:12,080
more like town houses. You might say,
"Hey, someone has a great concept to do

1108
01:28:10,159 --> 01:28:17,199
something different." We can consider it
through a variance. If someone has a

1109
01:28:13,840 --> 01:28:21,040
site that's just perfect for uh a bigger
building, you can look at it through a

1110
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:26,960
variance. Now, to me, it's really about
establishing what's the baseline code

1111
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:32,400
that you would accept on every lot in
R20. And if you start to get to a point

1112
01:28:29,120 --> 01:28:37,120
where I don't know if I'd want this kind
of approach on every lot in R20, then

1113
01:28:34,320 --> 01:28:41,520
you need to think through why not and is
there code we can write to protect from

1114
01:28:39,440 --> 01:28:46,880
that negative outcome of why did I not
want this use on that kind of setting.

1115
01:28:44,639 --> 01:28:51,600
So, I know we've talked about um the
even Steven approach on density. We've

1116
01:28:48,880 --> 01:28:55,199
talked about um making sure the
buildings themselves don't have more

1117
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:58,480
than a certain number of units. We've
talked about uh maybe a minimum

1118
01:28:57,199 --> 01:29:03,360
separation distance to the nearest
single family dwelling. Um we've talked

1119
01:29:00,719 --> 01:29:07,360
about maybe landscape buffers. Uh these
are the concepts we've talked about kind

1120
01:29:05,120 --> 01:29:12,800
of developing the most comfort around
the use. Um, you guys tell me if there's

1121
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:16,639
something that you feel like, hey, I'm
not hearing this and I want to hear this

1122
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:19,280
kind of protection or if you're like, I
don't think we need that protection

1123
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:23,920
anymore.
>> Okay,

1124
01:29:22,080 --> 01:29:28,080
I got it. Now, [clears throat] this
doesn't preclude other avenues. This is

1125
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:33,679
kind of like this is what we're going to
write into the code to allow these uses

1126
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:36,159
kind of expand the use, but not over the
top. They want to go top, they got to

1127
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:39,840
come back.
>> Yeah. Yeah. What one way to think about

1128
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:45,280
it is if someone if someone didn't want
to do a comp permit, they they wanted an

1129
01:29:42,719 --> 01:29:49,040
ability to maybe do a a multif family by
rate. We don't have that now. The option

1130
01:29:47,440 --> 01:29:54,800
is a use variance. And as you guys may
know, use variances aren't a tool you

1131
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:59,679
use for for heady complex applications.
If we allow the use, they can come in

1132
01:29:57,440 --> 01:30:04,159
and if they give you dimensional
variances, you can consider them on a

1133
01:30:01,280 --> 01:30:08,239
discretional basis. But at right now,
there's really not an opportunity for

1134
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:12,719
someone to offer us a multif family
without using the comp permit tool. So,

1135
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:17,040
we're our code is currently
communicating to the world if you want

1136
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:21,040
to do multif family and we're seeing it.
We're seeing it on Tyog, we're seeing it

1137
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:26,000
in Center of New England. We're
communicating use the comp permit tool.

1138
01:30:24,159 --> 01:30:29,280
If we want to make a compelling argument
that's not the only tool out there, then

1139
01:30:27,679 --> 01:30:31,360
we need to put something in our zoning
that says here's another option.

1140
01:30:31,040 --> 01:30:36,000
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. and and this would not require

1141
01:30:33,360 --> 01:30:40,480
affordables. Um there are communities
that do very complex uh arrangements

1142
01:30:38,639 --> 01:30:45,040
where you can achieve affordables
through underlying zoning and maybe you

1143
01:30:42,719 --> 01:30:49,760
you get you get density for in exchange
for affordables. I recommend right now

1144
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:53,600
if you want to stay even Steven, you're
probably not toying with different

1145
01:30:51,120 --> 01:30:57,760
metrics for density bonuses for, you
know, giving affordables and the

1146
01:30:54,880 --> 01:31:03,280
underlying. Um I' I'd recommend looking
at, you know, what would you allow by

1147
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:07,920
right um without toying with uh too many
complex situations, but trying to give

1148
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:11,320
people alternatives to the comp permit
for these uses.

1149
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,080
Anybody

1150
01:31:18,639 --> 01:31:24,159
else have any thoughts? So, it sounds
like you took this feedback, put pen to

1151
01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:29,120
paper, and you're wondering if you left
anything out that should be a

1152
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:32,880
consideration for at this juncture u
multif family dwellings in the R20 zone

1153
01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:35,920
and then you're going to move on now to
commercial and industrial.

1154
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:40,000
» Yeah. And so I think one question would
be if the board feels comfortable with

1155
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:46,159
those bullets on the top of page two
that seems to be wraps up what you

1156
01:31:43,040 --> 01:31:49,360
currently still feel are appropriate. Um
Jim the consultant can take that

1157
01:31:47,679 --> 01:31:55,040
feedback and say I can start to think
about how we would draft code that

1158
01:31:51,360 --> 01:31:58,239
follows the tenants of those bullets. Um
I think that's a that's a good place to

1159
01:31:56,639 --> 01:32:02,639
start
>> because it gives us a baseline but

1160
01:32:00,080 --> 01:32:07,679
allows some wiggle room for an
applicant. Yep.

1161
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:14,199
» It allows the board wiggle room to say
yay or nay or what we want to see and

1162
01:32:11,199 --> 01:32:14,199
» y

1163
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:21,840
» maybe to put it in perspective rather
than second guess what we want to see

1164
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:26,639
before he puts pen to paper this is just
going to be the framework for it unlike

1165
01:32:24,800 --> 01:32:30,960
the the kennels for example
>> this is this is giving you a chance to

1166
01:32:28,480 --> 01:32:33,679
see the approach before we put pen to
paper.

1167
01:32:31,520 --> 01:32:39,520
» Yep. And if this approach looks
reasonable, then um the next meeting,

1168
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:44,400
I'll put Jim into the the spot, but I
assume by the next meeting, Jim might be

1169
01:32:41,120 --> 01:32:48,320
able to help produce code that would
specify and effectuate what you're

1170
01:32:46,159 --> 01:32:51,679
seeing here. Those that code we can
still toy with. Uh Doug, I don't I feel

1171
01:32:50,159 --> 01:32:55,679
like the separation distance needs to be
a little different or we need to have a

1172
01:32:53,120 --> 01:32:58,880
gradation. If the project is seeking 20
units, we need a bigger separation

1173
01:32:57,120 --> 01:33:02,960
distance than if they're seeking three,
>> right? Um, and then we can toy with

1174
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:09,280
those metrics, those numbers, but he
could give us code to actually start to

1175
01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:14,400
see those. And as they do their work,
you know, there's they may stumble upon

1176
01:33:11,679 --> 01:33:17,520
ideas and offer us, here's the base code
you want. You might want to consider

1177
01:33:15,679 --> 01:33:21,280
these other provisions that other
communities have. Uh, they're going to

1178
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:24,560
offer us their best guidance on as we
enter this. Here's a range of options

1179
01:33:23,280 --> 01:33:28,159
and maybe here's some things you didn't
think about, but we should have in there

1180
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:31,280
as well.
You know, we don't talk about parking

1181
01:33:29,760 --> 01:33:35,280
arrangement. It might be that we feel
like strongly that we want to be

1182
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:39,199
thoughtful on the parking also needs a
separation distance from nearby

1183
01:33:37,199 --> 01:33:43,280
properties. If I live near a
multifamily, a larger scale multif

1184
01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:46,639
family, I might be concerned with the
lighting in the parking area just as

1185
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:51,679
much as I'd be concerned with the
buildings themselves. Um little nuances

1186
01:33:49,760 --> 01:33:57,520
like that that you know when we put pen
to paper you'll start to consider if

1187
01:33:54,560 --> 01:34:00,960
this code feels appropriate and if it's
something that you would be willing to

1188
01:33:58,719 --> 01:34:05,520
consider. Every project has a by right
choice to

1189
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:09,040
» and I don't mind being put put on the
spot Doug. I think uh so far be able to

1190
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:12,560
deliver that.
>> Thanks Jim. You

1191
01:34:09,760 --> 01:34:16,560
» tell Jim that's Friday though. Uh yeah
yeah yeah. No that's all right.

1192
01:34:14,880 --> 01:34:22,080
» It's going to be a less well thoughtout
draft than

1193
01:34:18,400 --> 01:34:27,440
Just wondering if um the the consultant
has any

1194
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:31,760
empirical examples from other
communities that they worked on about

1195
01:34:29,600 --> 01:34:37,920
this exact issue and what they thought
worked or didn't work or were problems.

1196
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:41,760
» Now you're Yeah. Yeah. Now I'm on the
spot. So this

1197
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:44,960
» I'm just It's interesting because we
were talking about these are the tenants

1198
01:34:43,280 --> 01:34:49,520
and my question is is this being done
anywhere else? There's 39 other cities

1199
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:52,880
and towns. Have you done it? Has it
worked or has it failed? That that would

1200
01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:55,840
be my question.
>> So,

1201
01:34:53,600 --> 01:34:59,679
» not that I'm I'm not the board, but
>> yeah.

1202
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:04,960
Do do you want me to uh address that?
Yeah. So, yeah, sure. If you guys would

1203
01:35:02,400 --> 01:35:10,080
like me to, I'm happy to. So, uh working
backwards as far as like how well an

1204
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:14,000
approach might this uh an approach like
this might have worked so far. Um, it

1205
01:35:12,560 --> 01:35:19,360
would be pretty hard to tell because
this is, you know, relatively new

1206
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:26,000
regulation, uh, and it hasn't had a lot
of chance out there in the ecosystem to

1207
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:30,400
see how it flies. Um, uh, as far as, but
really getting to your original

1208
01:35:28,239 --> 01:35:34,159
question, which was, you know, have we
seen this approach someplace else or

1209
01:35:32,159 --> 01:35:38,400
have we seen a community do this
approach someplace else? Um, I'm not

1210
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:42,639
aware of one immediately. We do a little
research and see if we can find one.

1211
01:35:44,080 --> 01:35:56,320
But I do know in the town of Jamestown,
they allow um duplexes, multifamily

1212
01:35:52,080 --> 01:36:01,040
duplexes on an R20 lot,
which normally would be a single family

1213
01:35:58,080 --> 01:36:03,440
lot in Jamestown. And now is is it
>> they definitely do.

1214
01:36:02,639 --> 01:36:07,920
» Yeah.
>> So I don't know if we're you keep on

1215
01:36:05,679 --> 01:36:12,000
talking about 10 acres.
Is there a distinction between an

1216
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:15,920
individual lot
versus a 10 acre?

1217
01:36:13,760 --> 01:36:20,800
» Well, I I think the feedback that Doug
got was that if it's in the R20 zone,

1218
01:36:18,880 --> 01:36:27,199
they wanted to say, well, then you need
20,000 square ft per unit, whereas

1219
01:36:23,920 --> 01:36:33,280
Jamestown has said the R20 zone is big
enough for two units if someone wants to

1220
01:36:30,239 --> 01:36:38,639
build it and they just by right could
put it a multif family. Coventry used to

1221
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:44,159
have and I I forgot maybe it got wiped
out. It was a special use permit in the

1222
01:36:40,239 --> 01:36:49,520
R20 zone. You could put a two family if
you had the additional road frontage.

1223
01:36:46,639 --> 01:36:55,840
It's like 120 ft required for a multif
family. If you had 175

1224
01:36:53,119 --> 01:36:59,920
feet of road frontage in the R20 zone,
you could ask for a special use permit.

1225
01:36:58,639 --> 01:37:04,560
But then we threw the special use
permits out. So now we're back to well

1226
01:37:02,400 --> 01:37:08,080
how do we allow multifamilies in the R20
zone and his and it looks like the

1227
01:37:06,639 --> 01:37:14,080
direction we're going in based on the
feedback was well you still have to have

1228
01:37:11,119 --> 01:37:18,800
the underlying 20,000 ft. Now nothing
would stop someone from coming in and

1229
01:37:15,920 --> 01:37:21,920
saying hey I only have 30,000 square ft
but I still have this much road

1230
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:25,280
frontage. It's a good fit. There's
another multif family down the street. I

1231
01:37:23,600 --> 01:37:29,040
want to put a multif family. Then they
got to get a they got to get a variance

1232
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:30,880
which means you know they got to go
through jump through the hoops.

1233
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:35,520
» Yep.
>> So and I mean there's a range of other

1234
01:37:33,520 --> 01:37:40,000
choices we have that we haven't
discussed. I mean one is that there

1235
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:44,080
might you guys may feel as though after
you start to see some of the code not

1236
01:37:41,440 --> 01:37:47,760
all areas of the R20 are equal. You may
say I feel that this is appropriate to

1237
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:51,280
do as an overlay. There are certain
areas of the R20 that we want to allow

1238
01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:55,199
this use and there's certain areas we
don't. Um, we've talked about overlays.

1239
01:37:54,080 --> 01:37:58,960
When we actually started the
conversation about multif family, we

1240
01:37:57,040 --> 01:38:03,760
started with overlays, but the board
found it even harder to start to circle

1241
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:08,000
areas on the map that they felt were
more appropriate than others because

1242
01:38:05,440 --> 01:38:12,560
everything became so case-pecific, sight
dependent. And this big blob, there

1243
01:38:10,159 --> 01:38:16,400
could be a great site for it, uh, or a
poor site for it. We'd want to be able

1244
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:20,800
to see the case by case on on this blob
over here. Same situation. There's

1245
01:38:18,320 --> 01:38:25,360
certainly areas of of of Coventry that
have more multis or twos and so the idea

1246
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:29,840
is it might be more appropriate where
there tend to be more multis and twos

1247
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:33,840
and our older areas of town that are
tend to be denser. Um but Coventry

1248
01:38:32,159 --> 01:38:38,080
doesn't have what many communities have
which is like a village center where

1249
01:38:35,600 --> 01:38:41,760
everyone kind of builds around a a more
dense village center. We do have some

1250
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:45,760
great mill villages that offer a bit of
that, but there's a lot of the community

1251
01:38:43,679 --> 01:38:50,719
that's just through the ages has been
built in different um densities, but a

1252
01:38:48,880 --> 01:38:54,880
lot of it still remains predominantly
single family. So, the idea is it's

1253
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:59,040
still a valuable tool. It was allowed by
special use permit, both twos and and

1254
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:04,159
multis. We still think we want to have a
right an ability for that th those uses

1255
01:39:01,360 --> 01:39:09,280
to be achieved and it's just finding the
right mix. So, if the board is ideas of

1256
01:39:07,199 --> 01:39:13,920
overlay sounds like a great idea, I
immediately have things that come to

1257
01:39:10,639 --> 01:39:17,440
mind. Um, we're open to that, but that
was even more challenging than creating

1258
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,199
the framework we have now, which is this
is where an approach that could be

1259
01:39:19,280 --> 01:39:25,199
appropriate in a range of different
options and styles that depends on how

1260
01:39:22,960 --> 01:39:30,000
big the units are, how big the project
is. That might, you know, almost old

1261
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:33,760
neighborhood, new neighborhood, less
dense, more dense. the board was more

1262
01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:36,560
focused on if you give me a great site
with enough separation from the nearest

1263
01:39:35,360 --> 01:39:41,119
single family, I'd be pretty
comfortable. And we kind of landed there

1264
01:39:38,880 --> 01:39:44,480
as opposed to overlay or a floating
zone. A floating zone might be one where

1265
01:39:42,960 --> 01:39:48,400
if you want multif family, you got to
change the zone to say on this property,

1266
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:52,639
we're going to allow multif family in
addition to all the other R20 uses. So,

1267
01:39:50,800 --> 01:39:55,920
there's a range of tools, but these this
seemed to be the direction the board

1268
01:39:54,159 --> 01:39:59,639
last left us with, which let's look at
R20 as a whole.

1269
01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:08,639
No, go ahead.
>> We have very limited sewer access in

1270
01:40:05,119 --> 01:40:15,520
town, like only 700 residents, right?
>> Is water equally? Um, there's pretty

1271
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:20,159
much I think city water in all of the
R20 zone and then I think it starts to

1272
01:40:18,400 --> 01:40:23,840
stretch out. They just didn't run the
piping. It was too too expensive. And

1273
01:40:22,080 --> 01:40:28,400
that's a good point. And I was thinking
that

1274
01:40:25,679 --> 01:40:32,239
» to the site I think a big impact
>> and and that some of that's in the code

1275
01:40:30,320 --> 01:40:37,840
now even for single family if you if you
don't have city water and

1276
01:40:35,199 --> 01:40:41,199
if you don't have city water the amount
of land area you need to build is

1277
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:45,520
greater.
Um I think right it's not even in the

1278
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:50,480
R20 zone it's like you need more land
than 20,000 square feet or something to

1279
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:54,560
put up a single family house. Uh, if you
don't have water in the R20, the minimum

1280
01:40:53,040 --> 01:40:57,760
lot size jumps to an acre. So,
essentially cuts your density in half if

1281
01:40:56,239 --> 01:41:01,520
you don't have water. I think you're
correct. The majority of R20 does have

1282
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:03,600
water. John Studley might be able to off
the top say if that sounds correct to

1283
01:41:03,119 --> 01:41:07,199
him.
>> Yeah, that's correct. And in some

1284
01:41:05,280 --> 01:41:10,400
portions of the R2, but then it cuts off
pretty much at Reed Schoolhouse. And

1285
01:41:08,719 --> 01:41:14,719
there's some portions in the R20 where
they didn't they didn't run the the

1286
01:41:12,880 --> 01:41:18,800
piping because of the you know it's
going to be a loop system and Kent

1287
01:41:16,159 --> 01:41:22,639
County won't even allow you to put city
water in. But um but what I was getting

1288
01:41:21,119 --> 01:41:25,679
at too though and this is just food for
thought you know when you really come

1289
01:41:23,760 --> 01:41:29,520
right down to it 20,000 square feet for
a single family dwelling that's the

1290
01:41:27,119 --> 01:41:33,440
zoning that's still a lot of land.
people that don't want to maintain large

1291
01:41:31,199 --> 01:41:36,159
yards. Now, I mean, fif 10,000 could be
a little short because if you have a

1292
01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:38,880
house and you got a few kids and before
you know, you got two, three cars and

1293
01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:46,880
there's not enough room for a large
driveway, a goodiz house, and then, you

1294
01:41:41,920 --> 01:41:51,679
know, ample space around it. But 15,000
for each unit in a in a multif family, I

1295
01:41:49,360 --> 01:41:56,400
mean, that's 30,000 square ft for a two
family, 45,000 ft for a three family,

1296
01:41:54,400 --> 01:42:00,639
that would probably be sufficient. I
don't know that 20,000

1297
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:06,000
would even be necessary if the idea is
to, you know, put two houses together.

1298
01:42:04,000 --> 01:42:10,480
» I mean, I I'll be honest. If there was a
way to draft the code that was um

1299
01:42:08,639 --> 01:42:13,920
protected against a comp permit, we
would probably be talking about wanting

1300
01:42:12,000 --> 01:42:18,719
to make this a little more attractive in
terms of achieving a byite density,

1301
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:21,679
» right? because they'll come in with a
comp if you went to 15,000 and next

1302
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:25,679
thing you know you're going to have
>> I've talked with the state and the state

1303
01:42:23,199 --> 01:42:29,679
lawmakers uh or the state uh
administrators understand this

1304
01:42:27,280 --> 01:42:33,600
challenge. We want to write a compelling
alternative to a comprehensive permit.

1305
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:36,159
The more compelling we make it, the more
it aids a comprehensive permit to get

1306
01:42:35,440 --> 01:42:39,600
more density.
>> Yeah, I got If there was like a magic

1307
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:45,280
word where you could say this
multifamily is allowed through

1308
01:42:42,639 --> 01:42:48,639
uh exclusive zoning and we use the word
exclusive zoning and state law says once

1309
01:42:46,960 --> 01:42:51,760
you use that word this tool can only be
used and it can't be used with a comp

1310
01:42:49,920 --> 01:42:55,760
permit. The truth is that doesn't exist.
A comp permit can come on top of

1311
01:42:53,760 --> 01:43:00,560
whatever your zoning says and says we
get what you told us we could get and we

1312
01:42:57,679 --> 01:43:05,920
get our bonus and there's no way to
draft zoning to preclude that. If there

1313
01:43:04,080 --> 01:43:09,760
was, I'd be guiding you guys to say,
"Let's talk about increasing density

1314
01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:14,159
from the baseline because let's make it
more compelling and attractive. Someone

1315
01:43:11,520 --> 01:43:19,199
might choose this over a comp permit."
Unfortunately, we are still kind of

1316
01:43:16,239 --> 01:43:23,679
stuck at a in a point where the comp
permit is a dominant tool and it's very

1317
01:43:22,159 --> 01:43:27,440
difficult to do what you suggested,
which is let's start to look at this as

1318
01:43:25,280 --> 01:43:31,119
maybe we can do multif family and 1500
square foot per unit. I mean, what we're

1319
01:43:29,920 --> 01:43:34,080
really doing is we're opening to the
door to criticism that a comp permit

1320
01:43:32,719 --> 01:43:37,520
comes in and and takes advantage of
that.

1321
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:40,800
» What stops someone now from coming in on
a 20,000 foot lot to say, "Hey, guess

1322
01:43:39,520 --> 01:43:44,560
what? I'm going to build a single family
house right here and I'm going to put an

1323
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:47,440
ADU right behind it."
>> Nothing.

1324
01:43:45,679 --> 01:43:51,360
» So, you could have two you can have two
units on one,000.

1325
01:43:49,280 --> 01:43:54,239
» The only thing we have to protect ADU
has to be small.

1326
01:43:52,080 --> 01:44:00,480
» Has to be smaller than Yep. Yep.
>> Yep. Yeah. Interesting. So,

1327
01:43:58,159 --> 01:44:05,199
no. So, does uh I at least I think I'll
leave it with on the R20,

1328
01:44:03,040 --> 01:44:09,440
does the feedback that you see in the
bullets uh still feel like that's that

1329
01:44:08,159 --> 01:44:13,520
represents what you'd like to see a
first draft of code on? Is there any

1330
01:44:10,960 --> 01:44:17,239
other ideas that you think we should be
including in this?

1331
01:44:17,280 --> 01:44:22,080
» Anybody?
>> Works for me.

1332
01:44:20,400 --> 01:44:25,760
» Yeah, I think it's I think it's a good
framework. Yeah.

1333
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:30,000
» Great. Um, now before we leave the
concept of multif family, two family, I

1334
01:44:28,400 --> 01:44:34,719
want your quick reactions. We haven't
discussed it in our commercial zones.

1335
01:44:32,000 --> 01:44:39,520
Let's talk about the GB because on
Tyogg, it's an area where we see a mix

1336
01:44:36,880 --> 01:44:44,239
of housing in and amongst the the
commercial. We're seeing a massive

1337
01:44:41,840 --> 01:44:49,119
housing proposal on Tyogg. Um, that's
using the comp permit. I think there

1338
01:44:46,239 --> 01:44:53,440
there's some desire to do housing and
particularly multifamily housing in that

1339
01:44:51,600 --> 01:44:57,119
Tyog corridor.
There's not an underlying zone right

1340
01:44:55,199 --> 01:45:02,560
now. A comp permit comes in and says
we're doing our density bonus on top of

1341
01:44:59,040 --> 01:45:06,080
zero. We allow no residential units.
However, if we did a baseline zoning,

1342
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:10,239
we're naturally going to if we allow
multif family, we're naturally allowing

1343
01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:15,520
some underlying zoning. I also don't
think if we allow multif family at two

1344
01:45:13,280 --> 01:45:20,800
units per acre at Tyog and someone comes
in at a comp permit, we're probably

1345
01:45:17,280 --> 01:45:23,920
still not wildly different than um an
approach we might find acceptable. You

1346
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:30,080
know, let's say, you know, seven units
per acre that might not feel wildly

1347
01:45:26,639 --> 01:45:35,280
dense on Tyogg. Um I do think that the
consideration is I'd like to offer the

1348
01:45:32,880 --> 01:45:40,320
use of multifamily and two family in our
commercial zones. we naturally have to

1349
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:43,760
then increase underlying zoning and
what's a density you think is

1350
01:45:41,679 --> 01:45:48,639
appropriate to start would it be equal
to our R20 and would we allow like the

1351
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:51,600
idea that if you can build something
that dense in an R20 should we allow

1352
01:45:50,320 --> 01:45:56,000
them to build that dense in the
commercial my thought is you know there

1353
01:45:54,159 --> 01:45:59,920
seems to be a desire the market is is
saying that they want housing um my

1354
01:45:58,400 --> 01:46:04,639
thought is we could start there as a
conversation point does using this range

1355
01:46:02,159 --> 01:46:10,040
of tools um but allowing it at two units
per acre feel right is that would You

1356
01:46:06,400 --> 01:46:10,040
say less or more

1357
01:46:23,440 --> 01:46:28,239
kind of along the same lines that we're
doing for the R20 establishing that same

1358
01:46:27,440 --> 01:46:32,000
framework.
>> It'd be the same framework. Yeah. I

1359
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:37,280
mean, some might argue that in a
commercial zone, maybe we can uh lessen

1360
01:46:34,800 --> 01:46:41,760
the degree of a separation distance if,
you know, if someone could build a a big

1361
01:46:39,440 --> 01:46:46,400
commercial operation, all the residents
around it understand it. Um, would there

1362
01:46:44,400 --> 01:46:51,119
be a would there be a need to have such
a great separation distance from, let's

1363
01:46:48,239 --> 01:46:55,520
just say we allow a multifamily, let's
just say it's 10 units, let's say it's

1364
01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:58,800
two buildings of five. Would it need the
same separation distance to single

1365
01:46:57,040 --> 01:47:02,239
family than that same project would have
if it was in the middle of a

1366
01:46:59,840 --> 01:47:06,320
neighborhood? We'd probably say no. So
maybe you look at it and there's some of

1367
01:47:04,080 --> 01:47:09,520
these bullets on the top of page two
that you feel that you can soften a bit

1368
01:47:07,760 --> 01:47:14,560
on, but it could still be the same
general framework. Um, you also might

1369
01:47:12,320 --> 01:47:17,119
feel that when you get on TIO, you don't
need to limit the number of units in a

1370
01:47:16,159 --> 01:47:21,760
building. You might feel more
comfortable saying, "Listen, if they

1371
01:47:19,440 --> 01:47:25,760
have a 10acre lot and we allow two units
per acre and they can do 20, I'm happier

1372
01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:30,080
to see it in one building on Tyog." It
might be that that setting on in the

1373
01:47:28,159 --> 01:47:33,360
commercial district, uh, you feel
different about the scale and the

1374
01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:37,600
massing of the building.
>> It would, but I would want to make sure

1375
01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:41,360
that the setbacks and the distances are
still, if there's a budding single

1376
01:47:39,360 --> 01:47:43,760
family, they still have to adhere to
that.

1377
01:47:42,080 --> 01:47:46,639
» Greening and everything else that goes
along with

1378
01:47:45,119 --> 01:47:49,119
» Yeah. the general business. I mean,
there's a big difference between an

1379
01:47:47,840 --> 01:47:54,239
apartment complex and the general
business zone and a budding neighborhood

1380
01:47:51,840 --> 01:47:57,520
than a two family in a residential
neighborhood.

1381
01:47:55,760 --> 01:48:02,080
» I think one big reason why you might see
projects in our commercial zones um more

1382
01:48:00,239 --> 01:48:06,560
uh readily
um approached by developers is that's

1383
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:10,639
where our sewer infrastructure is. I
mean, even if someone was to approach a

1384
01:48:08,400 --> 01:48:14,239
multif family in a R20, they're probably
looking to see what they can do in and

1385
01:48:12,639 --> 01:48:17,360
around Tyog or Sandy Bottom because
that's where the sewer exists now.

1386
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:20,960
» Well, the reality is you can get a
greater return on your investment and

1387
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:24,080
your capitalization rates greater now on
residential than it is in you just can't

1388
01:48:23,199 --> 01:48:27,520
rent the space out.
>> So, so if the idea is that hey, you

1389
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:30,480
know, people would want to bring this
used to where the sewer is, you know,

1390
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:34,800
sewer finds itself in our commercial
districts. So, um, someone that let's

1391
01:48:33,600 --> 01:48:38,480
say they were looking at the town
without a zoning map in their hand, they

1392
01:48:36,880 --> 01:48:44,239
naturally might say, "I want to land
this use in along Tyog or along center

1393
01:48:41,760 --> 01:48:49,280
of New England or in these other areas
that are already zoned commercial." So,

1394
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:52,400
I think um there's a debalance. Some
people might argue why don't allow

1395
01:48:50,639 --> 01:48:55,760
housing in our commercial zones. That's
for our tax base. That should be for

1396
01:48:53,920 --> 01:48:59,920
commercial uses only. We are living
through an era where there's a high

1397
01:48:57,119 --> 01:49:03,440
demand for housing. Um Rhode Island is
still generally undersupplied with

1398
01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:07,600
housing units. Um that's where the
market has so much attention. That's why

1399
01:49:05,040 --> 01:49:12,239
we're seeing uh you know 400 units on
Tyog instead of that property be brought

1400
01:49:09,440 --> 01:49:17,520
for a future commercial use. Um I think
that uh there's value in looking at you

1401
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:22,639
know adding this and I think it's just a
matter of what's the right volume and

1402
01:49:20,159 --> 01:49:27,639
density to start as an underlying zone
for this use in the commercial district.

1403
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:38,400
Uh yeah, I mean there's a situation
where anything could happen, right? Um

1404
01:49:35,679 --> 01:49:42,320
we're a community that is uh seeing
incredible housing growth in a short

1405
01:49:40,880 --> 01:49:46,480
amount of time. I mean the amount of
proposals we've seen and since I've been

1406
01:49:44,239 --> 01:49:50,800
here in 3 years, it is incredible. A lot
of it is the receiverhip. There were

1407
01:49:48,639 --> 01:49:56,800
properties that were pent up and had
development potential that are just

1408
01:49:52,800 --> 01:50:01,360
coming out of a a a legal situation. So,
they're coming back into uh

1409
01:49:58,800 --> 01:50:04,560
applications, but we're seeing a lot of
comprehensive permits. We're seeing a

1410
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:09,520
lot of other projects and it is
generally primarily residential is what

1411
01:50:07,360 --> 01:50:14,560
we're seeing. Um, so
>> we have access to 95 and three different

1412
01:50:12,159 --> 01:50:20,320
locations. Plus, you can go the other
direction between 117 and and get to

1413
01:50:18,239 --> 01:50:25,119
route two and Wick. So, and we have the
largest land area. So, I think there's

1414
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:32,159
always been a demand for residential in
in Coventry just because of its location

1415
01:50:28,239 --> 01:50:38,480
and um you know again available water
and some of the other resources. But I I

1416
01:50:35,119 --> 01:50:41,360
just wanted to what right now is zone
business park.

1417
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:45,360
» That's the center of New England region.
>> That's it.

1418
01:50:43,040 --> 01:50:50,639
So, okay. And after these housing
developments, it's pretty much built out

1419
01:50:48,639 --> 01:50:56,960
» largely. There would still be a handful
of parcels that um could be developed.

1420
01:50:55,040 --> 01:51:00,080
And I'm thinking long-term in terms of
redevelopment potential. So, you're

1421
01:50:58,639 --> 01:51:03,679
right. I mean, a lot of center in New
England, the vacant parcels are the

1422
01:51:01,679 --> 01:51:07,199
receiverhip parcels. Um those
receiverhip parcels were getting

1423
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:11,360
residential and dense residential
largely because they're the receiverhip

1424
01:51:09,679 --> 01:51:16,480
uh gave them a froze zoning in place
from uh like the year 2000 or so. And

1425
01:51:14,719 --> 01:51:21,280
that zoning allowed residential without
a maximum number of units. Um that's

1426
01:51:19,199 --> 01:51:24,719
also where we have sewer. It's where the
sites are largely predisturbed. So to

1427
01:51:23,040 --> 01:51:27,440
» some point I was trying to make is I
don't know that I want any more

1428
01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:30,080
residential development there if we
could stop it. Well, then I would say if

1429
01:51:29,199 --> 01:51:33,440
you're not interested in more
residential at the at the center New

1430
01:51:32,159 --> 01:51:36,960
England region, then don't allow
residential in the business park.

1431
01:51:35,440 --> 01:51:40,480
» But by the same token, if they're
interior parcels that are left, and now

1432
01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:43,920
we've got residential all the way around
it. There's really no other viable use

1433
01:51:42,639 --> 01:51:48,480
except residential.
>> If we looked at it, we could probably

1434
01:51:45,840 --> 01:51:51,920
find nonreceverhip parcels. There's
probably few and far between, but

1435
01:51:50,000 --> 01:51:56,000
probably a few developable
non-receiverhip parcels or they're

1436
01:51:53,679 --> 01:52:00,400
extremely underutilized. there uh a
parcel that might have a small office

1437
01:51:58,239 --> 01:52:05,360
building on it but still largely
available. Some of those parcels might

1438
01:52:02,400 --> 01:52:09,199
get taken for redevelopment. Um so there
is still some opportunity

1439
01:52:07,199 --> 01:52:12,960
» but if they're amongst the the retail
uses or the hotels or the other things

1440
01:52:11,360 --> 01:52:17,520
and they're right off center New England
Boulevard and they're not up in the

1441
01:52:14,239 --> 01:52:20,880
foothills like these last ones,
I think we should leave them there for

1442
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:23,679
commercial development.
>> That's fair. So I think

1443
01:52:22,239 --> 01:52:29,199
» but you've got all these the thing we
we're losing sight of is all these

1444
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:34,719
residential properties are currently
being built out now when the residents

1445
01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:37,599
are there with their disposable income.
There's going to be a need for

1446
01:52:36,080 --> 01:52:41,119
commercial properties and commercial
development to fill that void. You're

1447
01:52:39,520 --> 01:52:45,199
going to see these vacant storefronts
get built out. And center New England

1448
01:52:43,119 --> 01:52:48,480
that's it's the perfect opportunity. I
mean, we've seen things go in there just

1449
01:52:46,880 --> 01:52:52,239
within the last year, and I think it's
because they know there's a vast number

1450
01:52:50,560 --> 01:52:56,320
of residential properties that are
coming online in there with access

1451
01:52:54,639 --> 01:53:00,880
through Center New England now, whereas
before they may only go off of Hopkins

1452
01:52:58,000 --> 01:53:07,040
Hill Road. So, there's there's a demand.
Um, and if not, there's a is highway

1453
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:13,280
it's highway business as well. So I I
think the I personally don't think if if

1454
01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:16,560
we need we need not put residential in
the business park at this point.

1455
01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:20,880
» I think that's a good point. I we're
getting a ton of residential there. I

1456
01:53:19,119 --> 01:53:25,280
sometimes I think that zoning allows
doors to be open and if the all of the

1457
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:29,040
housing is built and 10 years from now
someone's saying what's the next highest

1458
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:32,639
and best use if it's still housing part
of me thinks well we should be open to

1459
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:36,320
that concept. But I think you're right.
If we were going to get more commercial,

1460
01:53:34,880 --> 01:53:40,719
the commercial wants to be near the
dense housing and you would want to make

1461
01:53:38,960 --> 01:53:46,719
sure that whatever available lots are
there still can achieve and be primarily

1462
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:51,760
geared for commercial. Um, so it's not a
bad point on the business park

1463
01:53:48,480 --> 01:53:56,639
» and and industrial one, just so I know,
that's pretty much Reservoir Road

1464
01:53:54,719 --> 01:54:02,080
somewhere in the back and over here off
of Industrial Lane. It's yeah, it's it's

1465
01:53:59,199 --> 01:54:07,119
stuff off Flat River and Reservoir, but
there's also a very big chunk of

1466
01:54:03,440 --> 01:54:10,639
industrial one up in the north eastern
corner of the community around some of

1467
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:14,480
the mill areas. There's some chunks of
industrial up there. Yeah. Harris. Yeah.

1468
01:54:12,960 --> 01:54:19,119
And then um
>> that's industrial up near um what is the

1469
01:54:17,440 --> 01:54:22,480
name of that big mill that like is split
by the Cranston line? Um

1470
01:54:20,880 --> 01:54:25,440
» Arrate.
Yeah.

1471
01:54:22,960 --> 01:54:29,119
» So that there's industrial up there. Um,
we do tend to see a lot of housing in

1472
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:32,480
and around our industrial. The
industrial tends to almost look a little

1473
01:54:30,800 --> 01:54:36,239
bit patchwork at times where there's
housing and industrial in zones near

1474
01:54:34,400 --> 01:54:40,800
each other. We actually have industrial
zones in center of New England. Um, some

1475
01:54:38,400 --> 01:54:44,320
of those parcels where
uh I don't think Cumbies is on one, but

1476
01:54:43,119 --> 01:54:47,199
like some of those parcels in and
around.

1477
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:50,239
» Yeah, it was they reszone Cummies to
land unit development or something to

1478
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:56,159
get that in there with the gas station.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. No. So, I'm so So, so

1479
01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:58,594
I Yeah. question
over [clears throat]

1480
01:54:59,040 --> 01:55:06,239
» it could be. So another idea is that if
you want to allow the use in commercial

1481
01:55:04,000 --> 01:55:11,199
you guys might say so here's one good
question to test that would you guys say

1482
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:17,440
multifamily is equally appropriate in
all areas of sandy bottom tyog and

1483
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:21,599
neneck hill road or if you'd say no some
of these areas lend themselves more

1484
01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:26,400
neneck hill road that's our general
business zone if your answer is no some

1485
01:55:24,239 --> 01:55:32,320
of these areas are very appropriate some
of them are not then we could do allow

1486
01:55:30,159 --> 01:55:37,199
the use in the commercial zone but do it
through an overlay. So it's sections of

1487
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:41,280
the commercial. Um so obviously GB is
one zone and that's that zone. It's

1488
01:55:39,440 --> 01:55:46,080
that's Sandy Bottom, that's Tyog, that's
Newick Hill Road. Uh we could say

1489
01:55:44,320 --> 01:55:51,719
portions of that zone are handled
through an overlay. Um I'm open

1490
01:55:51,840 --> 01:56:01,920
» overlay zone
give you some ability to notify

1491
01:55:57,199 --> 01:56:08,000
um residents or mandate notification
to residents in the residential units

1492
01:56:05,280 --> 01:56:11,920
about the potential activities that
occur around them.

1493
01:56:09,760 --> 01:56:18,880
» Yeah. I mean, the town is always able to
do voluntary notice, but I think the

1494
01:56:14,560 --> 01:56:21,760
difference between an overlay zone and a
non-overlay zone is probably a

1495
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:24,719
difference between a map change and a
text change that you were just

1496
01:56:22,719 --> 01:56:28,400
discussing. However, if the town feels
like, you know what, we want to give a

1497
01:56:26,239 --> 01:56:33,599
lot of notice, but we don't think
overlay is the right tool, well, we can

1498
01:56:30,159 --> 01:56:38,719
give notice. Uh, we can overnotice uh a
text change. And I this is the kind of

1499
01:56:36,080 --> 01:56:42,159
change you you would assume. The town
wants to really have its act together.

1500
01:56:40,639 --> 01:56:46,639
We want to know that this is a good
idea. You guys are the the the land use

1501
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:49,199
board of this community. So we really
want to make sure you're comfortable.

1502
01:56:47,920 --> 01:56:53,920
But even after you're comfortable, you
would say, Doug, let's overnotice the

1503
01:56:51,599 --> 01:56:58,960
hearings. Let's make sure that everyone
that lives within two, you know, 200

1504
01:56:56,480 --> 01:57:02,960
feet of the entire GB zone. And that
might be a pretty penny. That might be a

1505
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:06,719
multi,000 mailing effort. But Doug, if
we're going to do this, let's do that.

1506
01:57:04,639 --> 01:57:10,239
Let's do that kind of mailing effort. We
have that option. The the notice and the

1507
01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:13,520
process is something that I think we can
figure out. I think first and foremost,

1508
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:16,719
we want to make sure that we feel good
about the direction we're headed. Um,

1509
01:57:16,159 --> 01:57:22,080
you know, and
>> but Doug, also, and I don't know if this

1510
01:57:19,119 --> 01:57:27,119
will factor in it. I'm just because this
is what the board deals with. The people

1511
01:57:24,400 --> 01:57:31,440
that go into the residential zone don't
know what's going to happen next door.

1512
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:37,280
and next thing you know it's a GB zone
and a commercial use occurs with

1513
01:57:34,400 --> 01:57:41,920
lighting and noise and trucks and all of
a sudden those people who are happy

1514
01:57:38,960 --> 01:57:46,960
campers in that residential property are
now down your backs and down I'm just I

1515
01:57:44,560 --> 01:57:51,679
don't know how we deal with that. That's
why I was thinking about some sort of if

1516
01:57:49,599 --> 01:57:55,520
you're going to allow it in that area,
those people that are going to be, you

1517
01:57:53,679 --> 01:58:00,719
know, you put the obligation on that
developer that they have to notify

1518
01:57:58,320 --> 01:58:06,000
anybody who's going to be a resident in
that building. What's what not just

1519
01:58:03,920 --> 01:58:10,159
what's there that this is all a general
business zone. Here's the list. You're

1520
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:14,320
saying notice the people that move in
after the project's built because hey,

1521
01:58:12,080 --> 01:58:19,520
you're in the general business zone and
you don't realize this vacant lot next

1522
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:22,480
door now that could be a market because
we've had so much residential

1523
01:58:20,960 --> 01:58:29,040
development there's a demand and right
now we only have one market in town and

1524
01:58:25,599 --> 01:58:34,480
» all those and this the 18 wheelers
delivering the food at 4:00 in the

1525
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:39,679
morning. That goes to my point.
>> That goes to my point about making sure

1526
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:45,920
we don't
overallow residential development in the

1527
01:58:42,719 --> 01:58:50,480
general business zone or business park,
for example, and take away the

1528
01:58:48,560 --> 01:58:55,440
opportunity for commercial development
in the future, which we may need to

1529
01:58:53,119 --> 01:58:59,520
support all the people we have in town.
Now, next thing you know, they got to go

1530
01:58:57,520 --> 01:59:04,719
buy their groceries in a neighboring
town and give them the benefit of the

1531
01:59:02,080 --> 01:59:10,159
tax base. And in the meantime, the
residents are costing us money with

1532
01:59:06,639 --> 01:59:16,560
police, fire, possibly schools depending
on the size. So

1533
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:22,800
» where one side of the road is all
residential and one side of the road is

1534
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:26,320
all a commercial and all and every six
months the people on the residential

1535
01:59:24,719 --> 01:59:29,599
come in yelling and screaming at the
your board in the council on how

1536
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:33,280
something across the street is driving
them crazy. Is that tyog?

1537
01:59:31,920 --> 01:59:34,719
» Oh no that's reservoir.
>> Reservoir.

1538
01:59:34,080 --> 01:59:40,239
» Yeah.
>> So that's because let me tell you what

1539
01:59:38,159 --> 01:59:46,239
» but see that's the thing. If you go back
in time, okay, and you look at a map

1540
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:49,679
when you'd leave here today and you
start and you see that big storage

1541
01:59:47,840 --> 01:59:55,760
facility behind the fence, that's
Industrial Drive. That actually lines up

1542
01:59:53,199 --> 01:59:59,840
with reservoir on the other side, but is
not connected because of the wetlands

1543
01:59:57,920 --> 02:00:05,520
and the flowage that goes through from
Johnson's Pond. That was the town's

1544
02:00:02,719 --> 02:00:08,719
original industrial park. You could get
off the highway, go up Route 3.

1545
02:00:07,119 --> 02:00:12,880
Remember, there was nothing there until
they started building wood estates. And

1546
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:17,520
this goes to my point and all those
residents moved in. Then you started to

1547
02:00:15,199 --> 02:00:21,360
see the commercial development. In fact,
some of the developers held the frontage

1548
02:00:19,280 --> 02:00:24,880
lots on Route 3 until all the residents
moved in. Then they put up a commercial

1549
02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:28,880
building and they're renting it out. And
then you got dry cleaners, coffee shops,

1550
02:00:26,639 --> 02:00:35,280
laundromats, all that stuff comes in
later. Now again, the the dynamics have

1551
02:00:31,840 --> 02:00:39,679
changed on the retail, but that's that's
so it's unfortunate and and and and

1552
02:00:38,080 --> 02:00:45,520
that's right because there's areas over
there where you have

1553
02:00:42,560 --> 02:00:50,159
industrially zoned properties with,
let's say, a non-working asphalt plant.

1554
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:54,320
This is the case. And then you someone
comes in and says, "Hey, I want to

1555
02:00:51,599 --> 02:00:57,360
expand my residential use." They go out,
they go, "Oh, yeah, that sounds good.

1556
02:00:55,760 --> 02:01:01,119
They built a bunch of stuff." All of a
sudden, the asphalt plant starts up

1557
02:00:59,360 --> 02:01:03,920
again. And now you got all these people
saying, "Oh, I'm getting the smell. I

1558
02:01:02,639 --> 02:01:08,000
got this." Well, when you bought the
house, did you know that it would you

1559
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:13,440
would go next to an industrial zone?
Like there's no buffers. We don't go

1560
02:01:09,840 --> 02:01:17,440
residential, office, industrial, or we
we go right up right up against and

1561
02:01:15,760 --> 02:01:22,080
there's a lot of properties. And and
it's interesting because that was my

1562
02:01:19,040 --> 02:01:26,400
point. The cornfield where we we we have
the comp permit Craig management on the

1563
02:01:24,960 --> 02:01:30,239
corner of Hawkney Hill. if you were here
for that one. At one point, those

1564
02:01:28,639 --> 02:01:34,080
residents were up in arms. That was
going to be a big shopping plaza for

1565
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:37,520
like a grocery store with trucks, just
like you were saying. So then we get

1566
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:41,119
something that's more compatible
residential use. Granted, the density

1567
02:01:39,520 --> 02:01:43,520
was a lot
>> and it's still up in

1568
02:01:42,159 --> 02:01:47,840
» Yeah. And it's still up in arms, but it
was I I think it was probably a little

1569
02:01:45,440 --> 02:01:51,320
bit better mixed than what was
originally proposed.

1570
02:02:00,480 --> 02:02:07,119
They usually historically they're
pre-existing

1571
02:02:04,400 --> 02:02:11,760
use that grandfathered in and you're
stuck with them as opposed to a

1572
02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:16,639
thoughtful process where you decided to
put an ash plant next to a

1573
02:02:15,040 --> 02:02:21,520
you would never do that. you brought it
up at one point and said we should just

1574
02:02:19,119 --> 02:02:25,920
redo the zoning map across the entire
town at once and if we don't want to see

1575
02:02:23,520 --> 02:02:31,760
any more industrial development change
the zone now and the ones that are there

1576
02:02:28,639 --> 02:02:35,440
are grandfathered and over time they may
because of the market conditions decide

1577
02:02:34,239 --> 02:02:39,199
hey guess what I don't want to be
industrial anymore they'll go to

1578
02:02:37,040 --> 02:02:44,920
residential and maybe that's what we're
trying to do here but I don't know if

1579
02:02:40,719 --> 02:02:44,920
this is the correct way to do it

1580
02:02:45,040 --> 02:02:56,159
not trying to be controversial. I just
want to be think

1581
02:02:52,719 --> 02:03:01,360
» that the council hears at every we hear
at every council meeting somebody

1582
02:02:58,719 --> 02:03:04,560
complaining about uh really essentially
a pre-existing non-conforming use that

1583
02:03:03,440 --> 02:03:08,480
cannot be stopped.
>> Right?

1584
02:03:05,440 --> 02:03:11,840
» And and we hear a lot of angst about
that and the council thinks they can do

1585
02:03:10,320 --> 02:03:14,639
something about it. You all know we
can't.

1586
02:03:17,599 --> 02:03:22,295
Make him an offer. Yeah, make him an
offer. [laughter]

1587
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:26,840
» So,

1588
02:03:27,040 --> 02:03:34,000
» so I
>> not just where you think it will

1589
02:03:30,639 --> 02:03:39,360
succeed, but once it's succeeding,
>> you don't want to put in have 85

1590
02:03:37,679 --> 02:03:43,840
neighbors living in a building and now
they're all pissed off at you because

1591
02:03:40,639 --> 02:03:48,560
you're putting a commercial f I I think
>> I think with the

1592
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:52,800
» I I think with commercial and industrial
districts we would need to have a map to

1593
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:56,719
have a thoughtful discussion to say hey
guess what I don't want it in the

1594
02:03:54,480 --> 02:04:01,520
general business zone or it might be
okay over here if you wanted to do an

1595
02:03:58,480 --> 02:04:06,239
overlay district that allowed it but we
can't have cop blanch let's allow

1596
02:04:04,639 --> 02:04:09,280
residential in this zone or this zone
without knowing where they are because

1597
02:04:07,520 --> 02:04:13,679
the intricacies you go all the way down
tio cav where does it stop when you get

1598
02:04:11,199 --> 02:04:17,199
up past where uh Nikki's is and you're
going over the hill into West Warick. Is

1599
02:04:15,280 --> 02:04:21,920
that residential or is some of that
zoned commercial, but it's being used as

1600
02:04:18,960 --> 02:04:27,280
a residence? I mean, you got uh the the
door place there. I forget the name.

1601
02:04:23,520 --> 02:04:30,560
Fagan Door, you got Nikki's, you had uh
Taco, whatever the heck it is over

1602
02:04:28,880 --> 02:04:35,440
there. Then you got the little condos on
the corner of Pilgrim A. So, you know,

1603
02:04:32,719 --> 02:04:39,920
you start saying, "Well, let's
let's allow residential use next to

1604
02:04:37,679 --> 02:04:43,520
those. Maybe that's not a bad spot." But
as you get down to sandy bottom, right

1605
02:04:41,599 --> 02:04:47,280
now that's all business. You want to put
an apartment building right over there

1606
02:04:45,119 --> 02:04:50,639
in the middle of a of that zone and then
I mean that's a might be a good spot to

1607
02:04:48,960 --> 02:04:57,800
just keep its own business. I I don't
really know.

1608
02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:57,800
» No, go ahead. It gives us something.

1609
02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:08,000
» And unless there's a group of neighbors
that show up at the hearing process,

1610
02:05:06,320 --> 02:05:11,840
let's fast forward as you were doing
this. If There is nobody that shows up

1611
02:05:10,480 --> 02:05:17,840
that objects. The council is going to
rely on what you're doing. They may not

1612
02:05:14,159 --> 02:05:22,800
put together the the issues that you're
talking about here, how they could

1613
02:05:19,840 --> 02:05:27,199
explode into more problems for them. So
now is and I appreciate what planning. I

1614
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:34,400
think now is the time to really be
thoughtful about not creating more

1615
02:05:31,679 --> 02:05:38,400
issue, but you know, it's encouraging.
You need some flexibility, but you're

1616
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:43,360
going to be my my suggestion. We had
that discussion. Let's be very cautious

1617
02:05:40,320 --> 02:05:47,040
because you're just going to create more
problems for yourself and the and the

1618
02:05:45,840 --> 02:05:50,639
council that you don't do it
thoughtfully. Not really. I like the

1619
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:55,360
idea of the over you're going to do it.
I like the idea very thoughtful over

1620
02:05:53,040 --> 02:05:59,599
laser. That's my
>> But even then, you got to look at the

1621
02:05:56,880 --> 02:06:02,639
like up at up the let's face it. The
Harris Mill is gone. That used to be

1622
02:06:01,119 --> 02:06:06,800
Victor Electric. All right. Everything
up there is converted to to residential

1623
02:06:04,800 --> 02:06:11,840
now. I can't think. There may be one or
two industrial uses that are left. Um

1624
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:16,080
Anthony Mill was converted too. Same
developer. That's um I forgot who it is,

1625
02:06:14,159 --> 02:06:19,280
but up in Harris, which is which is
where I live, any of the industrial

1626
02:06:17,679 --> 02:06:22,560
properties, there's a mill housing back
there that's been there that supported

1627
02:06:20,639 --> 02:06:26,320
the mill because that's just the way it
was done. Um you've got one that just

1628
02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:31,440
went up. We've got the, you know, one of
those industrial garages, but how there

1629
02:06:28,800 --> 02:06:34,880
se low low to moderate income housing
that I think the town controls that went

1630
02:06:33,360 --> 02:06:41,360
into one of the industrial properties.
You got a nursing home up there. So, um

1631
02:06:38,087 --> 02:06:44,400
[snorts] I don't know. I I I think maybe
that's an area to look at, but for the

1632
02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:47,360
time being, I'd like to leave Sleeping
Dogs Lie on the industrial. we got

1633
02:06:46,079 --> 02:06:52,560
enough on our plate just getting the
multifamilies into the residential zones

1634
02:06:49,760 --> 02:06:56,159
and then um dealing with the next item
which is the uh taking back some of

1635
02:06:54,560 --> 02:07:00,079
these special use permits some of these
other activities that we want to but I

1636
02:06:58,239 --> 02:07:04,880
don't I still want to be able to
encourage

1637
02:07:02,159 --> 02:07:09,760
non-residential uses that in increase
the tax base for years that was the

1638
02:07:07,199 --> 02:07:13,360
problem the only saving grace right now
is that people are having less children

1639
02:07:11,920 --> 02:07:17,599
we're still I think starting to see an
uptick but if it wasn't for that this

1640
02:07:15,280 --> 02:07:21,599
this town would be exploding. The school
districts would be bankrupt in the town

1641
02:07:19,679 --> 02:07:25,360
just with the the number of kids in the
schools. But the the reality is I don't

1642
02:07:24,239 --> 02:07:30,639
think you're going to see more than one
or two kids per per household anymore.

1643
02:07:28,320 --> 02:07:35,199
That's just the the way it is.
>> So, here's my suggestion. I think we've

1644
02:07:32,400 --> 02:07:40,400
got feedback on the R20,
which is basically the the bullets we've

1645
02:07:37,119 --> 02:07:44,960
got here are a good starting point. Um I
think what we could give you guys a bit

1646
02:07:42,880 --> 02:07:51,360
of [clears throat] homework. H excuse
me. And we could send you uh a map of

1647
02:07:49,599 --> 02:07:56,480
the town, but to be honest, sometimes
the best way to see the zoning as it

1648
02:07:53,679 --> 02:07:59,440
relates to the town is to use our GIS,
which we can send you a link and we can

1649
02:07:58,079 --> 02:08:02,800
kind of give a little instruction on how
you zoning on because that allows you to

1650
02:08:00,960 --> 02:08:05,920
zoom in and out, which a lot of people
want to know where what what's here

1651
02:08:04,159 --> 02:08:10,800
again. They zoom in. Oh, yeah. Zoom back
out. Okay, here's the zone. Here's the

1652
02:08:08,239 --> 02:08:16,880
here's what's on the ground. Um I might
give you some homework to assess uh at

1653
02:08:13,760 --> 02:08:21,199
the next meeting when we come back what
where are there issue where are there

1654
02:08:18,639 --> 02:08:24,800
areas if any in the commercial and I'm
thinking the the the BP I think you kind

1655
02:08:23,280 --> 02:08:29,040
of made your point that that feels like
we're getting built out where are the

1656
02:08:27,040 --> 02:08:34,159
areas in the general business zone so
again Sandy bottom tyog knickkill road

1657
02:08:32,719 --> 02:08:36,880
and where are there areas and maybe
other commercial zones we haven't

1658
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:41,520
touched on the village main street
commercial we haven't touched on village

1659
02:08:38,480 --> 02:08:46,239
rural commercial uh and then industrial.
I might ask, you know, come back come to

1660
02:08:43,599 --> 02:08:50,480
the next meeting with a couple ideas on
I feel most comfortable here. And if the

1661
02:08:49,040 --> 02:08:55,119
group is still not feeling comfortable
with with residential and commercial,

1662
02:08:52,719 --> 02:08:59,440
that's that's fine. Um but it might be
that that gives you a starting point for

1663
02:08:57,599 --> 02:09:02,440
if we were to do it, this is where we'd
start.

1664
02:09:03,280 --> 02:09:08,719
You got it? Yeah, we can we can do a
couple we can both send a PDF. Who would

1665
02:09:07,199 --> 02:09:12,000
who would rather use like a link of the
town's GIS tool, which is pretty

1666
02:09:10,320 --> 02:09:15,440
userfriendly, and who'd rather have a
PDF map?

1667
02:09:13,360 --> 02:09:17,679
» Well, the GIS map's online. It's the
same one, right? You just have to change

1668
02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:21,040
the layers.
>> Yeah.

1669
02:09:18,719 --> 02:09:24,239
» Yeah. We we could email you a link to
the GIS and then give like a little

1670
02:09:22,639 --> 02:09:27,760
instruction on how you turn zoning on,
which is pretty intuitive, but like, you

1671
02:09:26,480 --> 02:09:31,360
know, at least tell you, you know, click
on this box, go to here, click on that

1672
02:09:29,360 --> 02:09:34,800
box, and then Frank, and then you can
turn on an aerial map because sometimes

1673
02:09:32,880 --> 02:09:37,599
you're just looking at a bunch of boxes
on the ground like what is this again?

1674
02:09:36,239 --> 02:09:41,360
And then you can say
>> then then that might give you an ability

1675
02:09:39,599 --> 02:09:46,239
to come back to the next meeting with an
idea of we looked at it frankly it's not

1676
02:09:44,639 --> 02:09:49,360
appropriate in any of these areas or you
might say frankly I find it's

1677
02:09:47,679 --> 02:09:55,920
appropriate here and here let's start
talking about that

1678
02:09:50,800 --> 02:10:00,480
» or if we did nothing a developer that
wants to put up multif family housing in

1679
02:09:57,920 --> 02:10:06,000
any one of those zones has the option to
go to the town to change the zoning on

1680
02:10:03,280 --> 02:10:10,320
that one lot and say this is a good fit.
It's never going to be developed for a

1681
02:10:08,480 --> 02:10:15,520
business use because of this, this, and
this. It's compatible. It fits in. The

1682
02:10:13,280 --> 02:10:18,800
neighbors in the back are here. Then
they have to come here for a

1683
02:10:16,800 --> 02:10:22,800
recommendation. Then it goes back. So
there's two hearings on the subject as

1684
02:10:20,719 --> 02:10:25,679
opposed to us writing it into the code
and they're coming here and it gets

1685
02:10:24,239 --> 02:10:28,719
approved. And then we have the issue
that you talked about where they're

1686
02:10:26,880 --> 02:10:33,360
screaming at the town council because
they didn't realize that that something

1687
02:10:31,119 --> 02:10:37,280
got approved. I mean that's my thought
is if I look at those maps right now I'm

1688
02:10:35,520 --> 02:10:43,440
I'm kind of and again it's just me
there's there's a bunch of us but

1689
02:10:38,719 --> 02:10:48,800
preserving the areas
but commercial development that we have

1690
02:10:45,599 --> 02:10:53,119
is probably a good thing and if it turns
out that there's such a demand that

1691
02:10:51,520 --> 02:10:56,400
someone's willing to go through that
process and we've had it before. I

1692
02:10:55,040 --> 02:11:00,880
believe at one time there was an
apartment complex and it may still be I

1693
02:10:58,560 --> 02:11:05,199
don't know for right next to Dunkin
Donuts. There's like a 50-ft road that

1694
02:11:02,880 --> 02:11:08,560
goes back and then it opens up and it
abuts the residential neighborhood. And

1695
02:11:06,880 --> 02:11:11,199
there was a proposal, I think, to put a
two or threetory apartment building back

1696
02:11:10,560 --> 02:11:15,920
there
>> with the appropriate screening. And

1697
02:11:13,280 --> 02:11:20,079
again, similar to the the plaza, the 400
units, it had its own entrance in and it

1698
02:11:18,639 --> 02:11:24,719
so it didn't really affect the
commercial and it abuted a residential

1699
02:11:22,480 --> 02:11:28,960
neighborhood and for someone to want to
put a business back there, it would it

1700
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:32,719
would have caused all kinds of problems
being back up against. So it was it was

1701
02:11:30,639 --> 02:11:37,040
a good fit and someone can come and get
a get a variance for that. Why do we

1702
02:11:35,040 --> 02:11:40,239
need to put anything in the code now
unless we're going to look at the entire

1703
02:11:38,560 --> 02:11:43,920
zoning map as a whole and say you know
what these areas here now should be

1704
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:48,159
zoned for residential because we're
allowing a mismatch of uses in the

1705
02:11:46,239 --> 02:11:52,960
general business zone businesses next to
commercial and that's kind of what got

1706
02:11:50,639 --> 02:11:55,520
us in trouble now.
Just my thought.

1707
02:11:53,679 --> 02:11:58,639
» Yeah, we're we're we're wide open. So,
I'm open to the board's feedback,

1708
02:11:57,119 --> 02:12:03,199
» but we'll at least look at the map to
see if there's any areas that say, "Hey,

1709
02:12:00,880 --> 02:12:07,440
you know what? this area right here. But
again, I I you almost may want to be

1710
02:12:05,199 --> 02:12:13,599
inclined to say reszone the whole area
from industrial to residential like that

1711
02:12:10,159 --> 02:12:17,199
north end up at up where uh you know, we
were just talking about in the

1712
02:12:14,719 --> 02:12:21,199
norththeast corner where Cranston and
Arkrite and most of it's already been

1713
02:12:19,679 --> 02:12:24,719
converted to residential and all you're
going to do at this point is is

1714
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:29,119
eliminate the opportunity for somebody
to go in there with an industrial use

1715
02:12:27,040 --> 02:12:33,520
that's probably not compatible with the
residential development that's occurred

1716
02:12:31,119 --> 02:12:39,440
within the last five Yes,
>> that makes that's an interesting point.

1717
02:12:36,480 --> 02:12:45,360
Are there those
uses going on in commercial that should

1718
02:12:41,520 --> 02:12:51,520
be be zoned to residential and free?
>> Um, probably a few as I'm thinking about

1719
02:12:48,000 --> 02:12:57,920
it. Um, I mean certainly on Tyogg Tyog
is a mix. Tyogg has uh the zoning

1720
02:12:54,960 --> 02:13:02,079
approach on Tyogg is generally
uh commercial zoning on either side, but

1721
02:13:00,639 --> 02:13:05,760
what exists in the ground is a
hodgepodge of there's an old house here

1722
02:13:04,079 --> 02:13:09,520
and then over here it was a house that
clearly was converted to commercial and

1723
02:13:07,360 --> 02:13:16,480
maybe someone brought it back and it's a
hodge podge of what use happened to fit.

1724
02:13:13,840 --> 02:13:21,520
Industrial here in Flat River, it's
largely is larger scale industrial

1725
02:13:19,360 --> 02:13:26,480
buildings. industrial in the northeast
corner near the mills is a bit of a mix

1726
02:13:24,880 --> 02:13:31,520
but the the industrial that's in the
northeast corner it's also a little

1727
02:13:28,320 --> 02:13:37,440
spotted where it's not just oh there's
in residential near I mean there are

1728
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:41,119
industrial actual industrial mills and
zones and there just happens to be

1729
02:13:39,520 --> 02:13:45,760
residential zones near it so I don't
know how many there I'm sure there would

1730
02:13:43,280 --> 02:13:51,040
be a few residential dwellings in the
industrial zone through our uh mill

1731
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:55,679
areas in that area up in the northeast
cuz that's not far from where I live. It

1732
02:13:54,000 --> 02:14:00,239
they're almost it's almost all
residential. The only operating

1733
02:13:57,599 --> 02:14:04,960
industrial is one off of Howard Avenue.
It's an L-shaped building. The the HVAC

1734
02:14:03,199 --> 02:14:10,239
companies in there and has a couple of
other small businesses. Then you got the

1735
02:14:06,639 --> 02:14:15,679
old candy factory which has the indoor
baseball and some other uses. But right

1736
02:14:13,199 --> 02:14:19,280
behind it, um, they put up the two big
industrial buildings and then there's

1737
02:14:17,599 --> 02:14:24,239
another one down on Main Street. Now,
that's the same the same type of thing.

1738
02:14:21,760 --> 02:14:28,560
Um, but if that whole area was reszoned
for residential,

1739
02:14:26,800 --> 02:14:32,400
what's there is going to stay there and
everything going forward is going to be

1740
02:14:29,920 --> 02:14:37,360
residential. And it almost encourages
conversions, which is what happened with

1741
02:14:34,239 --> 02:14:41,040
the Harris Mill, both sides. That's
apartments across the street. They took

1742
02:14:39,199 --> 02:14:45,920
the old building, converted it into I
think there's like eight LMI units in

1743
02:14:43,440 --> 02:14:49,280
there that the town runs or has some say
in. And in the back is the old mill

1744
02:14:48,079 --> 02:14:52,159
housing. And I'm trying to think if
there's any there's anything else.

1745
02:14:50,719 --> 02:14:55,199
There's a few commercial uses right
along Main Street right before you get

1746
02:14:53,679 --> 02:15:00,400
to West Warick. And in the back it's all
apartments. So I I just can't imagine

1747
02:14:58,000 --> 02:15:04,480
anyone opening up a industrial business
back there. And if they did and they're

1748
02:15:02,800 --> 02:15:08,000
allowed to open up an industrial
business by right, the odds are there's

1749
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:12,800
going to be a conflict with someone
who's moved into a converted property

1750
02:15:10,639 --> 02:15:16,560
that's got a residential use. Y
>> so it's time to kind of maybe think

1751
02:15:14,560 --> 02:15:20,239
think about that. But when you get down
to Tyoke Avenue, what you're going to

1752
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:23,040
start allowing residential development
in between businesses and then you're

1753
02:15:21,920 --> 02:15:27,880
just going to have a fight on your
hands. That's just the way I look at it.

1754
02:15:28,079 --> 02:15:32,560
And if the demand ever gets such that we
really don't have any need for

1755
02:15:31,119 --> 02:15:35,599
commercial business zones anymore,
nobody's putting it up. Everyone wants

1756
02:15:34,079 --> 02:15:40,560
residential. Great. Then reszone the
whole street for residential

1757
02:15:38,719 --> 02:15:44,000
or some other use that allows, like you
said, an overlay district with some

1758
02:15:42,079 --> 02:15:48,079
combined use. But I just think it's it
might be premature.

1759
02:15:46,560 --> 02:15:51,040
We'll go through the exercise you
suggested. We'll look at the map and

1760
02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:55,599
see, hey, are there any areas where we
definitely should allow residential and

1761
02:15:53,520 --> 02:15:58,480
and figure that out. But why do we want
to say, well, we got to start thinking

1762
02:15:56,800 --> 02:16:02,000
about where we want to allow it and then
create problems. Let's just be

1763
02:16:00,719 --> 02:16:07,040
thoughtful. If we can start putting
multif family in R20 zones and and maybe

1764
02:16:04,480 --> 02:16:11,040
even in one of the other uh residential
zones and it ends up being a demand for

1765
02:16:08,880 --> 02:16:15,520
it, then then that's fine. But like you
said, it's it's kind of the sewer line

1766
02:16:13,119 --> 02:16:18,560
and then the economics of it. And if a
guy says, "Hey, guess what? I can buy

1767
02:16:16,960 --> 02:16:22,480
that old commercial building on Tyok
Avenue, knock it down and put up all

1768
02:16:20,480 --> 02:16:26,159
these residential units and I'm going to
get a greater return on my investment

1769
02:16:24,400 --> 02:16:29,199
than if I fixed that building and rented
it out for commercial use because

1770
02:16:27,679 --> 02:16:32,559
they're just not paying the square foot
price anymore.

1771
02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:36,399
You just can't get it. I mean, even if
you've got a big commercial use, they

1772
02:16:34,000 --> 02:16:40,960
they're renting space a,000 square feet
for what they used

1773
02:16:39,280 --> 02:16:44,319
you can't rent 2,000 square feet
anymore. People don't keep inventory.

1774
02:16:42,639 --> 02:16:50,080
The stuff comes in overnight. So now you
need twice as much parking, half the

1775
02:16:46,160 --> 02:16:54,319
space and you don't get much tax revenue
on the parking lot. You get it on the

1776
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:58,000
building. So So they're not making
money.

1777
02:16:56,319 --> 02:17:03,280
» Fair enough. No. So I think we got our
we got our homework and we'll send you

1778
02:17:00,240 --> 02:17:07,439
an email uh for a little homework before
the next meeting which can just be kind

1779
02:17:04,960 --> 02:17:10,240
of explore the map a bit. It's uh it's
it's good to get the feedback. It

1780
02:17:08,960 --> 02:17:14,000
actually surprises me. I would have
thought there would have been more

1781
02:17:11,200 --> 02:17:20,000
comfort around the use of multif family
in the GB than there would have been in

1782
02:17:16,479 --> 02:17:26,160
the R20. Uh but you know, I'm I'm I'm
hearing you, which is no, we're we're

1783
02:17:21,840 --> 02:17:29,760
more comfortable in the R20 than the GB.
There's a stigma sometimes with multif

1784
02:17:28,240 --> 02:17:34,639
family dwelling. Oh, it's going to be
apartments. But you know what? They cost

1785
02:17:31,920 --> 02:17:39,120
so much to build now. The rents would
have to be so high. you you're not going

1786
02:17:37,439 --> 02:17:41,599
to get you're going to get affluent
people that are going to move in.

1787
02:17:40,399 --> 02:17:45,280
They're going to build them to get a
higher rent. They're not going to build

1788
02:17:43,280 --> 02:17:49,200
a multif family dwelling and then cater
to someone for $600 a month. They're

1789
02:17:48,000 --> 02:17:52,880
going to cater to someone that's going
to be willing to pay $1,800 to $2,000 a

1790
02:17:51,840 --> 02:17:59,200
month.
>> Yeah. So, we do have another topic that

1791
02:17:56,559 --> 02:18:04,160
we want to get to. So, I any last
comments, questions on the multifamily,

1792
02:18:02,160 --> 02:18:09,040
two family?
So then on the next topic, I'm actually

1793
02:18:06,080 --> 02:18:12,479
going to let Jim kind of give us a
little bit of an introduction. This is

1794
02:18:10,399 --> 02:18:16,319
about the the special use permits and
what we're doing. There's a couple of

1795
02:18:14,479 --> 02:18:19,840
documents. One you got in your packet in
advance and it it outlined these

1796
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:24,960
categories and I'll I'll let Jim take us
from there. Is that fair, Jim?

1797
02:18:23,200 --> 02:18:31,920
» Got to do that. Yep, that sounds good,
Doug. All right. So, um you should have

1798
02:18:28,479 --> 02:18:37,760
received a second memo um with a
longitudinal sort of print out. Yeah. Uh

1799
02:18:35,519 --> 02:18:43,439
couple of different colors on there. And
so what this is is again it's more of

1800
02:18:40,639 --> 02:18:52,559
the continued work on uh the zoning
regulation rewrite. Um, and what we did

1801
02:18:47,280 --> 02:18:56,160
here was put together a table that shows
um

1802
02:18:54,399 --> 02:19:03,519
where where we think where we're
thinking it might make sense to use uh

1803
02:18:58,960 --> 02:19:09,519
by right um as uh as a regulatory
standard or as a regulatory approach uh

1804
02:19:06,240 --> 02:19:15,760
performance standards or case by case
and the by right those uses would

1805
02:19:12,319 --> 02:19:18,639
generally have uh very limited land use
impacts. That's what we would expect.

1806
02:19:17,439 --> 02:19:27,760
That's why they could be in this
category and um would not really warrant

1807
02:19:22,880 --> 02:19:31,439
additional um use specific review of uh
standards. They're things that you can

1808
02:19:29,760 --> 02:19:36,160
say like okay this is something that
that we can develop fairly safely won't

1809
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:42,559
have a lot of repercussions
uh where the performance standards uh in

1810
02:19:39,040 --> 02:19:48,080
the middle exist. So these are uses that
might be appropriate without uh case by

1811
02:19:46,240 --> 02:19:55,120
case discretion. So you don't have to
necessarily review them very closely. Um

1812
02:19:52,319 --> 02:19:59,200
but they would benefit from some
specific standards, some performance

1813
02:19:56,960 --> 02:20:06,080
standards as we call them. And then the
third set again case by case. Um those

1814
02:20:02,880 --> 02:20:10,479
are uses where the characteristics have
potential impacts and it's hard to say

1815
02:20:08,720 --> 02:20:16,880
on the face of it without actually
reviewing an application whether uh the

1816
02:20:13,439 --> 02:20:21,439
impacts exist or not. And so those would
continue to get individual permits. Um

1817
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:26,319
the classifications that are shown in
the table are just recommendations for

1818
02:20:23,760 --> 02:20:32,319
your for discussion. Uh things we wanted
to go over with you tonight. Um and uh

1819
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:37,840
they're, you know, not intended to
represent final determinations. Again,

1820
02:20:34,720 --> 02:20:42,640
just for discussion. Um
and what we had asked you to do prior to

1821
02:20:40,160 --> 02:20:48,319
this meeting was sort of think through
the things that we have listed out and

1822
02:20:44,880 --> 02:20:52,479
think about whether um whether we've set
them up well or whether they're things

1823
02:20:50,479 --> 02:20:57,359
that you might like to change around a
little bit. Um there's a second table

1824
02:20:55,200 --> 02:21:05,120
that goes along with that. So, if you
flip the page, if you will, um there are

1825
02:21:00,960 --> 02:21:10,560
a list of uh the uses and these uses are
the uses that are in your zoning

1826
02:21:07,600 --> 02:21:16,399
ordinance currently. So, the you know,
same uses by name. Um in that second

1827
02:21:14,800 --> 02:21:21,280
table,
uh there are potentially applicable

1828
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:26,560
performance standards. So this would be
for that middle category, the

1829
02:21:23,040 --> 02:21:30,479
performance standards and they include a
bunch of different areas. So they

1830
02:21:28,399 --> 02:21:36,240
include things like uh hours of
operation, noise, lighting, uh

1831
02:21:32,960 --> 02:21:42,640
buffering, uh screening distance from uh
other from residential uses, parking and

1832
02:21:39,280 --> 02:21:48,800
loading, um traffic considerations,
traffic access, outdoor storage, etc.

1833
02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:52,319
Um, and frankly, if you take a look at
that, there's some that, you know, as

1834
02:21:50,720 --> 02:21:57,840
you're going down through the columns
where there are X's next to almost every

1835
02:21:54,399 --> 02:22:02,240
single use. So, really think about the
things that are on the right hand side

1836
02:21:59,600 --> 02:22:08,720
of the table. So, those are the ones
that are um

1837
02:22:06,720 --> 02:22:13,920
those are the ones that are like outdoor
storage um you know, odor and dust

1838
02:22:11,600 --> 02:22:19,120
emissions, things like that. and think
through whether those whether those kind

1839
02:22:16,960 --> 02:22:25,040
of standards are necessary or not. The
other thing we want you to consider is

1840
02:22:21,120 --> 02:22:30,640
that um uh standards around issues like
noise, those might be better regulated

1841
02:22:27,520 --> 02:22:35,040
or are already regulated through other
city ordinances. So they don't

1842
02:22:32,720 --> 02:22:39,840
necessarily need to be in zoning, but we
bring them up because we recognize uh

1843
02:22:38,080 --> 02:22:45,040
that these kind of things can create
issues. And so we want people to, you

1844
02:22:43,200 --> 02:22:51,439
know, we want you folks to think through
them and see what makes sense. Um, so I

1845
02:22:48,560 --> 02:22:54,479
I think that's basically it. We just,
you know, I think that that's great. And

1846
02:22:52,800 --> 02:22:59,200
and Jim and I spoke about these
products. I I do think that the second

1847
02:22:56,399 --> 02:23:03,680
page um as we reviewed it, Jim and I
kind of both acknowledged it probably

1848
02:23:00,720 --> 02:23:08,160
got a little exhappy where we thought so
many of these uses needed to have extra

1849
02:23:05,439 --> 02:23:12,960
regulations on so many categories.
um that probably it will need a little

1850
02:23:11,120 --> 02:23:16,720
more work and revision. I do think that
the standards, some of these, you know,

1851
02:23:15,200 --> 02:23:21,280
parking and loading, you know, they're
required for commercial uses. It's not

1852
02:23:19,040 --> 02:23:28,000
as though we need extra regulations,
noise. Um you know, some of these things

1853
02:23:23,920 --> 02:23:32,000
we cover. Um so the second table is
probably something that would be more of

1854
02:23:29,280 --> 02:23:36,080
a finer level of detail. This is just
giving you an example of when we start

1855
02:23:34,319 --> 02:23:40,000
to identify the uses, what are different
categories that we might seek

1856
02:23:37,439 --> 02:23:44,479
regulations on. I think a good use of
this meeting would be the first page,

1857
02:23:42,880 --> 02:23:51,920
the first table with the green, the
blue, and the uh uh beige uh colors. Um

1858
02:23:50,399 --> 02:23:56,160
do we feel as though there's a use that
belongs in a different category? Green

1859
02:23:53,520 --> 02:24:00,319
means go. Green means we think this use
could just be allowed. Uh blue means we

1860
02:23:58,479 --> 02:24:04,080
should add a regulation or two. Beige
means this is pretty heavy-handed and we

1861
02:24:02,160 --> 02:24:09,600
may need to be thoughtful with very
specific code on it.

1862
02:24:06,479 --> 02:24:14,319
» So just so I understand right now are
these just the items that had special

1863
02:24:11,760 --> 02:24:19,200
use permits before there's other or is
it just special use?

1864
02:24:15,840 --> 02:24:23,840
» It's a it's it's largely just the uses
that were previously allowed through

1865
02:24:20,479 --> 02:24:28,319
special use permit. And um you know
Rick, you were part of a handful of

1866
02:24:25,840 --> 02:24:32,000
meetings that we did. This is going back
two to three years ago,

1867
02:24:29,520 --> 02:24:38,160
» a while back. But I I just want to so
right now if someone wanted to put in a

1868
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:42,080
restaurant, how how are they allowed?
>> Uh the use of restaurant, I believe

1869
02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:45,359
there are zones where it is allowed by
right, but I think you're seeing it here

1870
02:24:43,680 --> 02:24:49,680
because there were zones where it was a
special use permit and now we're

1871
02:24:47,600 --> 02:24:54,720
debating, well, I don't know if we're
going to bring [snorts] that special use

1872
02:24:50,960 --> 02:25:00,880
permit back in that zone. The idea is
that maybe a restaurant in that zone

1873
02:24:57,920 --> 02:25:03,280
needs to have an additional standard. Um
the standard

1874
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:08,880
» So the plan is if it's already allowed
by right, we're not going to necessarily

1875
02:25:05,280 --> 02:25:11,439
» impose you're not ones where we have
where it previously was a special use

1876
02:25:10,560 --> 02:25:16,240
permit
>> and and Okay, that's all I just wanted

1877
02:25:13,200 --> 02:25:18,880
to clarify. So okay, so what you're if I
understand and I don't want to take

1878
02:25:17,920 --> 02:25:22,240
words because you were starting to
explain. So everything in the fir the

1879
02:25:20,399 --> 02:25:27,439
question is going to be is the stuff in
the first column seem like we don't

1880
02:25:25,439 --> 02:25:30,960
really have to worry too much about it
exactly we're just going to allow it. We

1881
02:25:29,040 --> 02:25:34,240
already have some regulations that are
going to control the development. If

1882
02:25:32,399 --> 02:25:38,479
they adhere to those regulations we can
allow it in the zones where it was

1883
02:25:35,840 --> 02:25:41,680
previously a special use permit. The
ones in the middle we want to say we're

1884
02:25:40,240 --> 02:25:44,800
going to add some performance standards.
If they're going to go into this zone,

1885
02:25:43,120 --> 02:25:48,880
it's non- general business and they want
to do this, then we're going to impose

1886
02:25:46,960 --> 02:25:53,840
these additional
rules or regulations that they're going

1887
02:25:50,800 --> 02:25:58,319
to need to adhere to to be allowed. And
then explain to me case by case versus

1888
02:25:56,479 --> 02:26:02,880
special use permit. How does that end up
not being subjected? I think we saw that

1889
02:26:00,160 --> 02:26:07,920
as maybe a category that although I'm
looking at it and I'm looking at like

1890
02:26:04,479 --> 02:26:11,359
laundry, dry cleaner, laundromat, that
one might be something that we feel like

1891
02:26:09,439 --> 02:26:16,560
we're only a performance standard or two
away from allowing. But I think it was

1892
02:26:13,520 --> 02:26:21,920
meant to be uses that uh maybe jump out
as having a potential greater intensity

1893
02:26:19,520 --> 02:26:25,920
than the blue. I think the idea is maybe
these are more than just a couple of

1894
02:26:23,439 --> 02:26:33,439
performance standards away. uh they may
need um some other tool regulatory tool

1895
02:26:29,760 --> 02:26:38,160
that we would use. Um I don't want to go
back to special use permits, but I guess

1896
02:26:35,600 --> 02:26:42,399
the idea is that you know those might be
more complex. when we kind of initially

1897
02:26:40,720 --> 02:26:49,680
talked about it that there are uses you
haven't even seen on here that um we

1898
02:26:45,920 --> 02:26:56,160
haven't talked about like solar, wind,
uh wind energy, um quaries, these were

1899
02:26:53,600 --> 02:26:59,120
uses that were very complex. They have
sections of the code dedicated to them.

1900
02:26:57,840 --> 02:27:03,920
They were allowed through a special use
permit and not anymore. Uh those are

1901
02:27:01,439 --> 02:27:08,000
probably uses that we would have a very
long robust discussion about how do we

1902
02:27:06,560 --> 02:27:12,640
allow these without the special use
permit tool and and are there cases

1903
02:27:11,120 --> 02:27:16,960
where we would want to bring the special
use permit tool back? I frankly don't

1904
02:27:15,280 --> 02:27:21,600
think the special use permit tool is a
wise tool at this point. I feel like it

1905
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:26,560
it puts us into a position where it's uh
the the framework to approve it is is

1906
02:27:23,760 --> 02:27:32,479
very straightforward and permissible. So
it it can be tricky to deny. Um in my in

1907
02:27:30,640 --> 02:27:36,960
my opinion. Um
>> that was the problem. That's why

1908
02:27:34,160 --> 02:27:40,160
» that's why we got rid of them. Um so
frankly I think that the third column

1909
02:27:38,720 --> 02:27:43,520
you might say there's certain things in
this beige column on the far right that

1910
02:27:42,080 --> 02:27:48,000
you feel like you know what I don't
think that that's any more intensive or

1911
02:27:46,479 --> 02:27:51,520
more of a nuisance than some of these
other things and we can move it back

1912
02:27:49,359 --> 02:27:54,319
over. Um, as I look at the chart
immediately, you know, and this is

1913
02:27:52,640 --> 02:27:58,399
coming from our consultant who's uh
giving us a nice neutral objective

1914
02:27:56,319 --> 02:28:02,720
review, I mean, my brain immediately
goes to certain uses I want to move

1915
02:28:00,160 --> 02:28:08,479
around, but before I do that, you know,
really the exercises for the board to

1916
02:28:05,280 --> 02:28:13,120
for it to get its idea. Um, I'd say the
way to think about it is green is go,

1917
02:28:11,040 --> 02:28:15,920
green feel is is uses that we feel like
if it's in a commercial zone or

1918
02:28:14,560 --> 02:28:21,359
industrial zone, it should just be
allowed by right, no extra regulations.

1919
02:28:18,319 --> 02:28:26,560
Blue means we want to add a a couple of
things here. And then gray means we

1920
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:32,319
probably need more thought. It may need
more than a couple of things. Um take

1921
02:28:29,600 --> 02:28:35,760
take a few minutes. Uh feel free to ask
questions, but take a few minutes and

1922
02:28:33,600 --> 02:28:38,800
just kind of start to digest it. You
could immediately start to circle uses

1923
02:28:37,520 --> 02:28:43,920
that maybe jump out to you. Like
immediately I'm like cemetery in in the

1924
02:28:40,880 --> 02:28:47,520
blue column. Uh maybe about 23 of the
way down. I mean, cemetery is probably a

1925
02:28:45,680 --> 02:28:53,040
use that we don't need any special
regulations on. You know, it's not a use

1926
02:28:50,720 --> 02:28:58,160
we tend to see new proposals for.
>> Well,

1927
02:28:54,800 --> 02:29:02,800
the thing the thing I see here is is
>> so so maybe Doug, this is this is just a

1928
02:29:00,560 --> 02:29:08,479
thought. If we looked at the things uh
in the green go column, the buy rights,

1929
02:29:05,920 --> 02:29:12,880
are there any in there that don't belong
in there and should really be in either

1930
02:29:10,479 --> 02:29:16,240
blue or or beige? You don't have to put
them in one of those particular spaces

1931
02:29:14,560 --> 02:29:20,560
yet, but just they don't belong in
green.

1932
02:29:18,000 --> 02:29:22,880
» Um, [clears throat] okay. That's a
little

1933
02:29:20,800 --> 02:29:27,439
» That's fair.
>> I mean, I had a problem with newspaper

1934
02:29:24,720 --> 02:29:32,399
offices.
>> Just just don't like them.

1935
02:29:30,560 --> 02:29:34,960
» No, who even has one?
>> Okay, fair.

1936
02:29:33,359 --> 02:29:40,160
» Newspapers are dead, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

1937
02:29:38,479 --> 02:29:44,080
I mean, there is one. We have a
newspaper office. um right near the in

1938
02:29:42,640 --> 02:29:48,160
the Dave's Plaza. I think that's where
the reminder has their main office.

1939
02:29:47,359 --> 02:29:51,920
» Yeah. Okay.
>> It's odd. I mean, the the use actually

1940
02:29:50,000 --> 02:29:54,560
exists in town as much as it's a dying
use. We we got a building.

1941
02:29:53,439 --> 02:29:57,680
» I was thinking of the people, you know,
going into the stand where you buy your

1942
02:29:56,160 --> 02:30:01,200
papers to get two, three newspapers,
some magazines, what do you want? Some

1943
02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:04,800
candy.
>> Yeah. There's one use I I'll you know

1944
02:30:03,600 --> 02:30:08,399
what? I'll give you guys a chance.
There's one use I've identified in there

1945
02:30:06,319 --> 02:30:12,800
that is very tricky, but it's it's it's
sort of a it's a new innovation, a part

1946
02:30:10,800 --> 02:30:16,880
of the use. But do you guys see anything
in the green that jumps out to you that

1947
02:30:14,399 --> 02:30:20,319
it's like I don't love I don't love
considering that by right. We should add

1948
02:30:18,720 --> 02:30:24,120
a regulation. There's something there
that's a little intense.

1949
02:30:27,120 --> 02:30:33,200
That's it. Yeah, that's what I had in
mind. Green houses. Now the definition

1950
02:30:31,359 --> 02:30:38,880
of a greenhouse is changing in the world
because there's um controlled

1951
02:30:35,840 --> 02:30:43,040
environment agriculture. Um there's the
biggest building in Rhode Island has

1952
02:30:40,319 --> 02:30:47,520
been proposed in exit to grow it's a 25
acre building to grow tomatoes. It's

1953
02:30:45,520 --> 02:30:55,200
probably best understood as a greenhouse
but it's highly mechanical. It is

1954
02:30:51,439 --> 02:31:00,960
internal growth. It is staff and it is
shifts and it is trucks and trucks and

1955
02:30:57,520 --> 02:31:05,600
trucks. it's probably still a use that
someone could say is a greenhouse. Um,

1956
02:31:03,760 --> 02:31:09,280
that might need a little bit of work or
maybe we redefine greenhouse to ensure

1957
02:31:07,520 --> 02:31:12,800
that it doesn't include like if we're
going to make it easy to make a build a

1958
02:31:10,640 --> 02:31:16,080
greenhouse that does not include
mechanicized, you know, methods of

1959
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:19,439
agriculture within the
>> greenhouse size.

1960
02:31:17,280 --> 02:31:24,800
» Was that could limit the size?
>> Could max. Yeah, limit the size. Um,

1961
02:31:23,359 --> 02:31:27,280
» and which zones are we talking about
too? We still, you know, we don't really

1962
02:31:26,080 --> 02:31:29,520
have the key to know where Well, there
are a lot of

1963
02:31:27,760 --> 02:31:32,640
» No, no, we don't have that yet, but I
think majority of what you're looking

1964
02:31:30,720 --> 02:31:37,760
at, they're commercial or industrial
uses. We're these are these would be

1965
02:31:34,880 --> 02:31:41,280
only for commercial industrial zones.
Um, it is a fair question. Some of these

1966
02:31:39,600 --> 02:31:45,120
we might take a look at are village main
street or village rural which are kind

1967
02:31:43,280 --> 02:31:49,200
of meant to be light business zones.
>> I can't imagine we don't have a nursery

1968
02:31:46,560 --> 02:31:53,760
or a greenhouse out in in the uh in the
rural. use that use I think actually

1969
02:31:51,840 --> 02:31:58,800
might that use might be a use that's
allowed in residential but or was

1970
02:31:56,800 --> 02:32:02,880
allowed in residential.
>> Um I think that that use probably could

1971
02:32:01,200 --> 02:32:11,200
be allowed in residential as long as we
frame it as um a maximum size or somehow

1972
02:32:08,240 --> 02:32:16,640
make it make sure we don't end up with a
a businesscale greenhouse which we did

1973
02:32:14,880 --> 02:32:21,120
have interest in that in Coventry. We
had an applicant that was asking how

1974
02:32:18,960 --> 02:32:24,399
they could achieve that and it was right
around the turn when all the special use

1975
02:32:22,800 --> 02:32:28,960
permits went away and I said no it's not
available but we had an applicant

1976
02:32:25,840 --> 02:32:33,280
looking to use that use to do um this
controlled environment agriculture um

1977
02:32:31,680 --> 02:32:37,040
which
that they they they can be busy I mean

1978
02:32:34,960 --> 02:32:40,680
they need parking spaces because they
have multiple staff

1979
02:32:44,960 --> 02:32:51,200
so we might want to move that one over
to blue.

1980
02:32:49,359 --> 02:32:58,200
» What was the thought process between
group instruction in blue and individual

1981
02:32:54,319 --> 02:32:58,200
instruction in green?

1982
02:32:58,880 --> 02:33:01,920
» Meaning like how did we come up with
those?

1983
02:33:01,040 --> 02:33:06,560
» Yeah. But
>> yeah,

1984
02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:11,600
» so it was it was based on larger land
staff experience and considering how

1985
02:33:09,040 --> 02:33:16,840
these things have worked in other uh in
other cities and towns that we were

1986
02:33:13,520 --> 02:33:16,840
familiar with.

1987
02:33:26,479 --> 02:33:29,479
Yep.

1988
02:33:30,716 --> 02:33:32,735
[sighs]

1989
02:33:43,840 --> 02:33:55,760
Where would our average
uh commercial condo type development

1990
02:33:51,840 --> 02:34:01,120
be listed? Is in that in the
performance standards or the buy right?

1991
02:33:58,080 --> 02:34:05,439
The commercial condos actually uh
weren't special use permit uses. So,

1992
02:34:04,080 --> 02:34:08,960
ironically, you know, you might say,
Doug, that feels more intensive to me

1993
02:34:07,280 --> 02:34:12,640
than a lot of what I'm seeing here. That
that's a use that's allowed by Wright in

1994
02:34:11,040 --> 02:34:18,240
our general business and industrial
zones. I believe they're also available

1995
02:34:16,160 --> 02:34:22,160
in our village main street and village
burough commercial. I mean, that's why

1996
02:34:19,520 --> 02:34:27,200
you saw uh a project, I don't want to
name specific projects, but you saw a

1997
02:34:24,319 --> 02:34:31,520
commercial condo in Western that was in
a village rural commercial zone

1998
02:34:29,040 --> 02:34:35,040
recently. And I think that's one of the
one of the bigger ones we see where the

1999
02:34:33,439 --> 02:34:40,000
community comes out against it.
>> It's certainly a popular use. So whether

2000
02:34:38,080 --> 02:34:44,000
whether we're seeing the community come
out because they don't like that use or

2001
02:34:41,520 --> 02:34:47,359
whether it's just we tend to see that as
a commercial use that appears over and

2002
02:34:45,840 --> 02:34:50,960
over again and that's where there's a
rub. You know, I don't know if anyone

2003
02:34:49,359 --> 02:34:57,359
out there would be jumping for joy over
retail either. Um but yeah, that's a

2004
02:34:54,560 --> 02:35:01,280
popular use. And if the thought is, hey
Doug, you know, while we're doing this

2005
02:34:58,640 --> 02:35:06,000
exercise, we'd love to consider some
regulations around that use too, um, I'm

2006
02:35:04,080 --> 02:35:10,720
open. I mean, really, the first task is,
hey, these are uses that for some degree

2007
02:35:08,160 --> 02:35:13,920
somewhere in the town we shut it down
and we always intended to bring it back.

2008
02:35:12,560 --> 02:35:17,760
There might be uses that you'd say,
Doug, there's uses that we need to rein

2009
02:35:16,160 --> 02:35:20,640
in a little bit that are allowed by,
right?

2010
02:35:18,479 --> 02:35:28,000
» Yeah. For me, that that's one because
all the all these commercial condos

2011
02:35:23,760 --> 02:35:33,280
popping up um really is for me is
definitely needed, but it's low value

2012
02:35:30,880 --> 02:35:38,800
low value
uh for some high value properties and

2013
02:35:36,319 --> 02:35:45,040
they're putting in these low value
developments and frankly

2014
02:35:42,479 --> 02:35:47,520
aesthetically they become eyes pretty
quickly.

2015
02:35:45,760 --> 02:35:51,439
» Yeah, understood. Yeah, they're they're
certainly uses that are meant to be more

2016
02:35:49,359 --> 02:35:56,160
functional than aesthetically
attractive. They're they're not looking

2017
02:35:53,359 --> 02:35:58,640
to bring in customers. It's a workplace
for contractors.

2018
02:35:57,520 --> 02:36:03,840
» And I think there's there's an
appropriate place for that. And like me

2019
02:36:01,200 --> 02:36:08,720
personally, I don't particularly feel
they belong on

2020
02:36:06,000 --> 02:36:17,120
Taio Gav, but
there are appropriate areas off the off

2021
02:36:12,319 --> 02:36:20,080
the main roadways that have industrial
like the which is they're completely

2022
02:36:19,040 --> 02:36:23,680
appropriate for.
>> That's fair. It's a good comment. We'll

2023
02:36:21,760 --> 02:36:26,880
make a little note and this is where Jim
always assumes there's scope creep. Jim,

2024
02:36:25,200 --> 02:36:29,439
we'll we'll also just evaluate all the
uses in town while we're doing this

2025
02:36:28,240 --> 02:36:33,120
work. Oh, okay.
>> Um, [laughter] but no, we'll make a note

2026
02:36:30,960 --> 02:36:36,880
of that. I think that's fair. Uh, I want
to get this kind of feedback. We're here

2027
02:36:34,720 --> 02:36:40,640
to talk about appropriate sighting of a
range of commercial industrial uses. So,

2028
02:36:38,560 --> 02:36:45,040
if something jumps to mind that isn't on
the page, we want to hear about it. Um,

2029
02:36:42,960 --> 02:36:49,359
if we're doing this exercise and one one
thing that we've done and we had a work

2030
02:36:47,600 --> 02:36:53,280
group that met many times, so some of
this work was based on some work group.

2031
02:36:51,520 --> 02:36:56,960
Um, Rick was part of that work group.
We're going back two and a half years

2032
02:36:54,479 --> 02:37:00,880
ago. The last time this work group met,
we all believed that it was also

2033
02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:04,000
appropriate to look at uses that were
never allowed in industrial but were

2034
02:37:02,479 --> 02:37:07,920
allowed in commercial. Let's look at
allowing those commercial uses in

2035
02:37:06,080 --> 02:37:12,640
industrial zones. Our industrial zones
aren't factories. They're a hodgepodge

2036
02:37:10,720 --> 02:37:16,960
of different uses that just happen to be
allowed. And then there's some cases

2037
02:37:14,960 --> 02:37:19,760
where there might be light industrial
where it might be appropriate in

2038
02:37:18,319 --> 02:37:25,120
commercial. I'm not looking to bring a
factory to Tyogg, but someone that does

2039
02:37:22,560 --> 02:37:29,359
I I use this case example of uh someone
that wants to build custom surfboards

2040
02:37:27,200 --> 02:37:32,479
and they need a place to work. We'd
consider that a form of manufacturing,

2041
02:37:31,280 --> 02:37:36,160
probably like miscellaneous
manufacturing. He's building custom

2042
02:37:34,560 --> 02:37:39,760
surfboards. This isn't a factory. This
is someone that just needs a space to

2043
02:37:37,520 --> 02:37:44,160
work. That might be very appropriate on
a tyogue or sandy bottom.

2044
02:37:42,080 --> 02:37:48,319
» So, we looked at the the difference
between us is allowed in industrial and

2045
02:37:46,560 --> 02:37:52,560
commercial. To some degree, we're in a
world where we're not getting big

2046
02:37:50,000 --> 02:37:57,600
factories and industrial and only retail
and commercial. It's industrial needs to

2047
02:37:55,280 --> 02:38:01,200
be more wrestrial zones need to be more
open to different uses because they're

2048
02:37:59,439 --> 02:38:05,439
to some degree sometimes struggling
because there's not manufacturing in

2049
02:38:02,960 --> 02:38:09,600
America and sometimes we should look at
certain industrial uses and say that's

2050
02:38:07,040 --> 02:38:13,439
going to be a very smallcale use and
maybe it's appropriate in some of our

2051
02:38:11,520 --> 02:38:18,880
commercial zones. So we thought that the
the lines between those two zones could

2052
02:38:16,240 --> 02:38:24,160
use to be um to some degree some more
overlap than what our code allowed. When

2053
02:38:21,359 --> 02:38:27,520
we do this exercise we're not giving you
this is the use in the industrial and

2054
02:38:25,920 --> 02:38:32,160
business but if we determine this is a
use we're comfortable with the next

2055
02:38:29,280 --> 02:38:36,399
stage was in all the business and
industrial or one or the other. I I

2056
02:38:34,399 --> 02:38:42,880
would consider that surfboard more of
like a a craft or more of like a artist

2057
02:38:41,280 --> 02:38:47,680
type
uh

2058
02:38:44,399 --> 02:38:54,960
uh business versus an industrial complex
where you see trucks coming in and out

2059
02:38:50,000 --> 02:38:56,080
of and and more of a crafty or oestry
type

2060
02:38:55,600 --> 02:38:59,359
» art studio
>> an art studio

2061
02:38:57,520 --> 02:39:02,880
» type thing. So, you know, you get
through the zoning code and you start to

2062
02:39:00,720 --> 02:39:07,200
realize furniture manufacturing, you
know, we don't have furniture factories,

2063
02:39:04,560 --> 02:39:10,640
but someone that wants to build custom
furniture and wants to have a site, he

2064
02:39:09,040 --> 02:39:15,840
may you may that we may be comfortable
with that on um Tyogg, what what tends

2065
02:39:14,160 --> 02:39:20,720
to happen is people think industrial
means factories. We don't get factories

2066
02:39:17,760 --> 02:39:25,120
anymore anywhere. So, it's time for us
to revisit what what do we actually want

2067
02:39:23,200 --> 02:39:29,359
and what do these uses mean today
compared to what they meant 50 years

2068
02:39:27,120 --> 02:39:32,880
ago. true industrial complex isn't going
to fit in any industrial facilities we

2069
02:39:31,920 --> 02:39:35,120
have
>> that listed for.

2070
02:39:33,760 --> 02:39:39,680
» I mean, you know, you look at what are
the uses driving big site development

2071
02:39:37,359 --> 02:39:44,240
now it's uh fulfillment centers. It's
the Amazon fulfillment centers. It's now

2072
02:39:41,600 --> 02:39:51,200
we're going to get data centers and um
all of all of that. Um these are like

2073
02:39:46,800 --> 02:39:55,680
the most uh intensive largecale. This is
what's replaced factories is uh Amazon

2074
02:39:53,600 --> 02:39:59,920
fulfillment centers and and data
centers.

2075
02:39:56,800 --> 02:40:03,920
» And do we do we have those D do we have
any ordinances

2076
02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:07,040
» I don't think we have anything I'd have
to look I haven't I don't know if we

2077
02:40:05,600 --> 02:40:10,479
have anything that a data center could
say we fit in your town because this

2078
02:40:08,479 --> 02:40:14,000
fits what we do. I don't know if we have
any description of a use that gets close

2079
02:40:12,080 --> 02:40:18,479
to a data center. I know it's become
very controversial nationally

2080
02:40:16,319 --> 02:40:21,760
» but mostly because requires a lot of
water and a lot of electricity. Yeah.

2081
02:40:20,880 --> 02:40:26,640
So, so
>> they might have trouble coming here.

2082
02:40:24,399 --> 02:40:30,000
» So, I mean, in thoughts, do do people
feel generally comfortable with what

2083
02:40:28,160 --> 02:40:34,479
they see in green? Is there anything in
green that you you feel needs to be

2084
02:40:32,080 --> 02:40:37,760
bounced over? I like I like getting the
thoughts like what you just said, John.

2085
02:40:36,240 --> 02:40:42,080
We're going to take a note about, you
know, where do we allow the commercial

2086
02:40:39,120 --> 02:40:46,800
condos and we'll fold that into our
analysis.

2087
02:40:43,680 --> 02:40:50,160
Um, but does Green feel comfortable to
folks?

2088
02:40:48,880 --> 02:40:53,120
» Pretty much. Yeah, except for the
nursery greenhouse. I think that was

2089
02:40:51,520 --> 02:40:56,080
something we might want to look at. But
just one more comment. I know I know we

2090
02:40:54,800 --> 02:40:59,920
was talking about the commercial condo.
See, the problem is you put the building

2091
02:40:57,600 --> 02:41:02,960
up and it's a commercial condo, but you
don't know who ultimately is going to

2092
02:41:01,200 --> 02:41:06,000
end up renting the space.
>> It could be anything. It could be

2093
02:41:04,240 --> 02:41:09,200
landscapers, in which case they're
coming in and out all day and they don't

2094
02:41:07,280 --> 02:41:12,640
have any customers at all and it's more
of a commercial use. They're going to

2095
02:41:11,280 --> 02:41:15,920
park their cars during the day. There's
a lot of stuff that gets stored there.

2096
02:41:13,920 --> 02:41:20,080
They're in and out with trucks. Then you
could have like if you look at the

2097
02:41:18,399 --> 02:41:22,800
original ones that are off Taio, there's
a guy in there that makes trophies.

2098
02:41:21,600 --> 02:41:28,319
There's somebody else in there that has
a taekwond do studio. There's an oil

2099
02:41:25,680 --> 02:41:32,240
company. You know, those are all behind
Atlantic Plumbing off Taio Cavalick

2100
02:41:30,399 --> 02:41:35,359
behind McDonald's. There's a whole row
of industrial

2101
02:41:32,880 --> 02:41:37,040
» Yeah. And those that use is probably
considered grandfathered what they're

2102
02:41:36,800 --> 02:41:39,920
doing.
>> Right. Right. It is. But what I'm

2103
02:41:38,160 --> 02:41:43,200
getting at is folks are coming in and
saying, "Hey, guess what? I can make a

2104
02:41:41,439 --> 02:41:48,399
good return on this." The the rate of
return is really good. I'm telling you,

2105
02:41:45,439 --> 02:41:52,000
for what you have to invest in a a steel
building with whatever infrastructure

2106
02:41:50,479 --> 02:41:55,920
you put in there, a small bathroom, a
couple of doors, an overhead door, and

2107
02:41:53,600 --> 02:41:59,760
it's in, but you have no idea once it's
up, who's going to end up renting that

2108
02:41:57,760 --> 02:42:02,800
space. And that's the that's really the
issue. Is it allowable use in the

2109
02:42:01,439 --> 02:42:06,640
general business zone? Well, it's a
commercial condo. They're not do they're

2110
02:42:04,319 --> 02:42:12,399
not selling any retail. It basically
becomes a storage facility. And and see

2111
02:42:09,520 --> 02:42:16,000
Mike Mike Beard again, I shouldn't the
the the ones we approved up off a

2112
02:42:14,399 --> 02:42:20,240
reservoir road that are basically in the
industrial zone. That's he he mentioned

2113
02:42:18,720 --> 02:42:22,800
that he goes I'm getting people that
don't want to have their boat shrink

2114
02:42:21,439 --> 02:42:25,280
wrapped every year. It's cheaper for
them to rent space from me and bring

2115
02:42:24,080 --> 02:42:27,200
their boats there and keep them in
undercover for the winter and just tow

2116
02:42:26,720 --> 02:42:29,600
them out.
>> Yep.

2117
02:42:27,760 --> 02:42:34,880
» So you don't know what the uses are
going to be. And if they abut

2118
02:42:31,200 --> 02:42:38,080
residential zones, um you know, they're
really not helping us.

2119
02:42:36,399 --> 02:42:42,319
» Yeah. I mean that's why the use is
popular because it offers flexibility to

2120
02:42:40,160 --> 02:42:45,439
meet a tenants's need. I can tell you
that the use the way it's described in

2121
02:42:43,920 --> 02:42:49,200
Coventry code and we haven't touched it.
So this is one of those uses that you

2122
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:53,280
know is it's just one of those old uses
we've used for this purpose. It's it's

2123
02:42:51,040 --> 02:42:57,680
basically a it's a it's an equipment and
material storage use. Um the idea is if

2124
02:42:56,479 --> 02:43:01,120
someone starts to do something that
looks more like hey I want to point a

2125
02:42:59,359 --> 02:43:04,960
sale and I I want to have customers
coming in and out. We're going to start

2126
02:43:02,160 --> 02:43:07,600
to say that's not this use then you want
to do retail. But if you're in the

2127
02:43:06,240 --> 02:43:10,960
general business zone, they're both
allowed.

2128
02:43:08,800 --> 02:43:15,520
» They're both allowed. But if someone
says, "I'm building this building for

2129
02:43:12,640 --> 02:43:18,399
this use," they would need a change of
use. If they're going to say, "Now, I

2130
02:43:16,960 --> 02:43:23,280
want to do point of sale." And we might
look at a site and say, "You developed

2131
02:43:20,479 --> 02:43:28,640
this thing with garage doors and without
parking to accomplish a customer comes

2132
02:43:26,319 --> 02:43:32,560
in, they park here, they come up to a
natural safe [snorts] location to meet

2133
02:43:30,560 --> 02:43:35,680
me at the front door to review." we
would probably say, "No, I don't know if

2134
02:43:33,920 --> 02:43:39,120
this site lends itself to that use.
Maybe there's safety concerns. Maybe you

2135
02:43:37,280 --> 02:43:43,359
didn't give it yourself enough parking."
So, the core use of a commercial condo

2136
02:43:41,520 --> 02:43:48,160
is really it's a storage. It's a
material and equipment storage use. The

2137
02:43:45,600 --> 02:43:51,439
idea is if a plumber ends up banging a
hammer on a piece of pipe in his unit. I

2138
02:43:50,319 --> 02:43:55,279
mean, we're probably not going to say
the you banged your hammer or that's a

2139
02:43:53,279 --> 02:43:58,960
manufacturing use. But if suddenly
somehow there's 10 employees in one of

2140
02:43:58,000 --> 02:44:03,359
these units and they're all
manufacturing something, we might come

2141
02:44:00,399 --> 02:44:07,040
and say this is clearly beyond storage.
You're clearly doing another use and you

2142
02:44:05,600 --> 02:44:11,600
need to do a change of use and we need
to have you reviewed under the code for

2143
02:44:08,640 --> 02:44:17,120
that new use. It it is
>> I all the allowable uses that you

2144
02:44:14,160 --> 02:44:21,760
described for those commercial condos,
what did you say it was? storage and

2145
02:44:19,359 --> 02:44:25,840
» like a equipment and material storage.
>> Yeah, that in my opinion that belongs in

2146
02:44:24,080 --> 02:44:29,359
an industrial zone, not a general
business zone, but it's allowed in the

2147
02:44:27,600 --> 02:44:33,279
general business zone. And that's what
you're starting to see because again, it

2148
02:44:31,279 --> 02:44:35,600
all comes down to what's the rate of the
return I can get if I can rent this

2149
02:44:34,880 --> 02:44:38,160
thing out.
>> And people are saying, you know what, I

2150
02:44:36,880 --> 02:44:42,160
can put one of these buildings up real
cheap. I can get a good rate of return

2151
02:44:39,600 --> 02:44:47,600
on the rent. And now we could end up
with, you know, those right next to

2152
02:44:45,600 --> 02:44:52,240
something else taking away a potential
retail use and taking up space because

2153
02:44:50,560 --> 02:44:55,120
it was more profitable at the time. And
those folks don't care what it looks

2154
02:44:53,520 --> 02:44:58,160
like when they drive down Taio Gav,
which basically is our main thoroughfare

2155
02:44:56,800 --> 02:45:01,359
in town. We don't have a main street,
but that's it.

2156
02:44:59,439 --> 02:45:05,279
» Yeah. Now, we're we're taking notes on
this because the idea is that that might

2157
02:45:03,600 --> 02:45:09,120
not be related to our special use permit
work, but if it's a use I mean, it's

2158
02:45:07,359 --> 02:45:11,920
certainly a use we've seen a lot of,
right?

2159
02:45:10,319 --> 02:45:17,040
Um,
there's uses that weren't really I don't

2160
02:45:14,000 --> 02:45:20,080
even think that the the the developer
meant and was shooting for that use, but

2161
02:45:18,640 --> 02:45:26,000
they ended up building something like
it. I'm thinking about off of Harky

2162
02:45:22,640 --> 02:45:32,960
Hill. Um, we saw an application that was
for an oil uh distributor

2163
02:45:29,520 --> 02:45:36,399
» and uh it's an odd use and he ended up
building buildings that had sort of a

2164
02:45:34,640 --> 02:45:40,720
flexible kind of component to them. I
mean, he was relying on that use because

2165
02:45:39,200 --> 02:45:45,840
I think it gives him the ability to
store his buildings or store his

2166
02:45:42,880 --> 02:45:52,000
vehicles, uh, store some equipment. But,
you know, what he's doing is he's a he's

2167
02:45:49,120 --> 02:45:55,840
a, you know, he's an oil distributor and
he sometimes takes guys oils tanks out

2168
02:45:54,080 --> 02:45:59,520
of their their buildings and he needs a
place to cut them up. And so, it's it's

2169
02:45:57,760 --> 02:46:05,680
like we don't have a use that says
here's the oil tank business use. Uh, it

2170
02:46:02,880 --> 02:46:09,760
was the closest use that fit. Um, we do
tend to see a lot of them. So, we can

2171
02:46:07,920 --> 02:46:14,560
revisit that. That can be part of like
maybe our effort is to bring this up

2172
02:46:11,600 --> 02:46:18,560
whether we uh ask Jim to help with it or
not. It can be a use that we revisit. Is

2173
02:46:16,720 --> 02:46:21,279
it where do we want it? And the idea is
if we want it in the general business,

2174
02:46:19,920 --> 02:46:25,800
fine. But maybe we add a lot of
restrictions to it along the way.

2175
02:46:26,880 --> 02:46:34,960
Do we want to try the corollary exercise
to what we just did and see what in blue

2176
02:46:32,720 --> 02:46:38,479
and gray might belong in green?
>> That makes sense. And that might be, you

2177
02:46:36,399 --> 02:46:40,399
know, I I can assume folks here are
probably ready to wrap it up.

2178
02:46:39,680 --> 02:46:43,520
» Yeah, please.
>> Yeah. No. So, let's let's let's I think

2179
02:46:42,000 --> 02:46:47,279
if you if green feels good, aside from
the couple comments we got, let's look

2180
02:46:44,880 --> 02:46:51,120
at blue. I think look if there's
something in blue that jumps to you as

2181
02:46:48,720 --> 02:46:57,479
that should be more of a green or that
feels like it's maybe even more complex

2182
02:46:53,680 --> 02:46:57,479
and it should be in beige.

2183
02:47:00,880 --> 02:47:10,840
» Yeah. No, these these Weston Samson guys
they I don't know how they pick their

2184
02:47:06,479 --> 02:47:10,840
colors. They're crazy.

2185
02:47:11,440 --> 02:47:17,359
» [laughter]
>> I didn't have any involvement selective.

2186
02:47:15,680 --> 02:47:20,399
» They're pretty color like three
different colors.

2187
02:47:18,880 --> 02:47:23,520
» That's good enough.
>> They work.

2188
02:47:21,279 --> 02:47:25,040
» It should be yellow.
>> Red.

2189
02:47:24,319 --> 02:47:29,720
» Oh, yeah.
>> Green. Green. Yellow. Red. Next time

2190
02:47:43,680 --> 02:47:53,439
a walk-in medical clinic, treatment
center, retirement nursing home. I see

2191
02:47:50,000 --> 02:47:58,160
two different Is this only what was the
special use permit? in what zones? We

2192
02:47:57,120 --> 02:48:01,200
don't know.
>> Yeah, we can we can take a look. I mean,

2193
02:48:00,240 --> 02:48:04,319
I um
>> and I'm thinking there's two different

2194
02:48:02,560 --> 02:48:09,680
things there. I mean, a walk-in medical
clinic and a treatment center

2195
02:48:07,040 --> 02:48:12,880
generally would be business and
industrial, but retirement nursing home.

2196
02:48:12,240 --> 02:48:16,880
» Yeah, I think
>> would be a fit in residential. you're

2197
02:48:14,720 --> 02:48:22,560
probably getting a mix of some uh some
of these uses uh were combined uh

2198
02:48:20,640 --> 02:48:25,920
because it was probably maybe two
different uses in the code but the you

2199
02:48:24,560 --> 02:48:29,840
know the consultant thought let's look
at this as

2200
02:48:27,760 --> 02:48:34,479
you know this is similar does this
grouping of uses feel similar here you

2201
02:48:32,160 --> 02:48:38,560
might say Doug I think uh
>> time nursing homes are are separate from

2202
02:48:37,040 --> 02:48:44,080
the other they're kind of
>> yeah no I think that that's fair

2203
02:48:39,840 --> 02:48:49,200
» and I think um you know the standards
It's they may be suited in some

2204
02:48:47,120 --> 02:48:56,520
residential zones. I mean, if they can
get the water and the uh and the uh

2205
02:48:53,200 --> 02:48:56,520
waste disposal

2206
02:48:58,160 --> 02:49:05,200
» is is a driving range and golf course
similar or not similar enough located

2207
02:49:03,760 --> 02:49:10,880
together sometimes.
>> Yep. Um a golf course is actually in

2208
02:49:10,080 --> 02:49:12,880
beige,
>> right? I'm saying

2209
02:49:11,520 --> 02:49:16,720
» and where driving range and mini golf
are here in blue. So, it's a it's a fair

2210
02:49:14,880 --> 02:49:21,120
observation. It feels like those uses
probably driving range tends if it's

2211
02:49:19,439 --> 02:49:25,600
good enough for a driving range, it's
probably good enough for a golf course

2212
02:49:24,399 --> 02:49:28,800
» and vice versa.
>> They fit on small areas.

2213
02:49:28,080 --> 02:49:33,359
» Yeah,
>> you can put a driving range. Not much

2214
02:49:31,439 --> 02:49:35,760
many of them left. I think there's one
or two in the whole state now.

2215
02:49:35,279 --> 02:49:41,520
» Yeah.
>> Miniature golf is more commercial.

2216
02:49:38,720 --> 02:49:46,479
I guess that's it's like Topgolf.
>> Yeah, that's that use I I would dare say

2217
02:49:44,880 --> 02:49:50,399
because we I was part of Cranston when
when that project was permitted in

2218
02:49:48,160 --> 02:49:54,800
Cranston that I don't think we have a
use that covers Topgolf. I wouldn't say

2219
02:49:52,319 --> 02:49:58,640
that a driving range inherently means
that you can build Topgolf there. Um we

2220
02:49:57,359 --> 02:50:01,680
also know we're not going to get another
Top Golf. Top Golf isn't like they don't

2221
02:50:00,479 --> 02:50:04,880
want to build right next to where their
other sites are. So I think the state

2222
02:50:03,120 --> 02:50:09,359
has one. We probably got what we got for
a while. That's a whole there's

2223
02:50:07,520 --> 02:50:14,479
basically food,
>> alcohol, driving range.

2224
02:50:11,760 --> 02:50:16,960
» Yeah, they're they're I kind of would
>> Yeah, they're they're kind of like a

2225
02:50:15,600 --> 02:50:21,439
major entertainment center,
>> clubs, entertainment. So, they they kind

2226
02:50:18,960 --> 02:50:29,279
of fit under all of that. This is a
>> Yeah. Um what about uh you have uh in

2227
02:50:25,359 --> 02:50:37,520
blue auto dealer auto dealership vehicle
sales and then you in in the beige you

2228
02:50:33,520 --> 02:50:40,800
have boat repair storage sales auto body
repair.

2229
02:50:38,560 --> 02:50:44,880
» That's fair. I think boat sales and auto
sales are probably similarly

2230
02:50:43,760 --> 02:50:51,600
categorized.
>> Yeah. But I but I would caution that a

2231
02:50:47,760 --> 02:50:57,279
lot of auto dealerships have
auto body repair shops and uh auto

2232
02:50:55,120 --> 02:51:01,279
service in their dealership.
>> Mhm.

2233
02:50:57,920 --> 02:51:06,800
» So I guess the question would be is auto
dealership without

2234
02:51:04,000 --> 02:51:11,920
repair facilities in one and then an
auto dealership with repair facilities

2235
02:51:09,120 --> 02:51:15,920
in another. We actually, this is a use
that I'm a little more familiar with

2236
02:51:13,520 --> 02:51:19,680
because we did draft and we're looking
at this code when we did gas stations

2237
02:51:18,000 --> 02:51:24,080
because as you may recall, we did the
gas station code and we did a lot of

2238
02:51:21,040 --> 02:51:29,279
like cleanup work around it where we
we're oddly categors

2239
02:51:27,760 --> 02:51:33,520
for some of these uses. So, we have some
standards for auto repair and oddly we

2240
02:51:31,520 --> 02:51:37,760
were like uh applying those same
standards for dealerships. I do believe

2241
02:51:35,680 --> 02:51:41,840
that auto dealerships, boat dealerships
are independent uses and auto repair.

2242
02:51:40,160 --> 02:51:46,720
It's not like there's a use that allows
both. So, we can really treat them

2243
02:51:44,160 --> 02:51:51,920
separately. I mean, they each come with
their own nuisance issues.

2244
02:51:48,160 --> 02:51:59,200
» So, if we did have like a
um like they have on route to we have

2245
02:51:56,479 --> 02:52:04,560
Subaru get moved to center of New
England Subaru dealership. they have

2246
02:52:01,359 --> 02:52:09,760
their car sales and you pull up to the
garage to get your oil changed and

2247
02:52:06,640 --> 02:52:13,359
whatever else that would that that that
would then go under the most stringent

2248
02:52:11,760 --> 02:52:16,560
of the two requirements.
>> We would say you're doing two uses at

2249
02:52:15,120 --> 02:52:20,800
once, which you're allowed to do in a
commercial zone. Um, we have plenty of

2250
02:52:18,720 --> 02:52:26,160
cases and we'd say each use needs to
meet its own independent requirements.

2251
02:52:23,600 --> 02:52:29,439
You could say the the auto dealership is
the whole lot because hey, you're

2252
02:52:27,760 --> 02:52:34,240
putting the cars up front. You know, all
the cars are everywhere on the site.

2253
02:52:31,359 --> 02:52:37,600
Maybe the auto garage is in the building
and someone might say, "Oh, well, the

2254
02:52:36,080 --> 02:52:40,479
standards for the auto garages, the auto
garage should be at least this far from

2255
02:52:38,960 --> 02:52:45,200
residential." Great. Well, we're going
to measure that from the auto garage

2256
02:52:42,560 --> 02:52:49,600
component of the site. And we might say,
"Oh, and but auto dealerships need to

2257
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:53,680
have other standards like um I don't
know what it might be uh of landscaping

2258
02:52:52,240 --> 02:52:56,240
throughout the, you know, so like they'd
have to meet each independent code as it

2259
02:52:55,439 --> 02:52:59,600
applies to the section.
>> I just want to make sure that it's

2260
02:52:57,600 --> 02:53:05,399
clearly distinguished between the two
because that the way it was described

2261
02:53:01,920 --> 02:53:05,399
here, it doesn't

2262
02:53:05,680 --> 02:53:14,479
» Yep. No, that's fair. I'd actually would
recommend that. I do think auto body or

2263
02:53:12,479 --> 02:53:19,840
we say here auto body repair but we're
starting in our recent code rewrite. Um

2264
02:53:18,000 --> 02:53:24,800
we're starting to treat auto body and
auto repair is the same. There's no real

2265
02:53:22,000 --> 02:53:29,200
need to treat them differently. Um I
think they're they're a use that I think

2266
02:53:26,720 --> 02:53:34,240
is appropriate to put in blue and that's
mostly because we've actually now

2267
02:53:32,000 --> 02:53:38,560
drafted a good chunk of performance
standards for them. And I think we're

2268
02:53:36,800 --> 02:53:42,720
close and that's a use we certainly have
plenty of. It's a use that you is

2269
02:53:40,960 --> 02:53:47,279
currently turned off across the entire
town. I'd love to put it into a category

2270
02:53:45,439 --> 02:53:52,240
of blue where we might be just a couple
of pieces of code away from taking auto

2271
02:53:50,240 --> 02:53:57,439
body and auto repair in general and
making that an allowed use, which we

2272
02:53:54,399 --> 02:54:03,840
certainly have. We entertained a use
variance on an auto body expansion if

2273
02:54:01,200 --> 02:54:09,439
you may recall. um this wasn't too long
ago and they went with a use variance

2274
02:54:05,760 --> 02:54:12,800
because um there there was not a buy
right choice and they were just seeking

2275
02:54:10,960 --> 02:54:16,319
a simple expansion on their property.
So, I think it is something that we're

2276
02:54:15,040 --> 02:54:22,479
going to get people knocking on the door
pretty soon saying, you know, hey,

2277
02:54:20,000 --> 02:54:25,479
» Exactly. Yep. That's that's the one
>> I

2278
02:54:25,840 --> 02:54:33,680
I think some of it is also regulated by
the state. Not so much a regular auto

2279
02:54:30,479 --> 02:54:36,720
repair, but automobile sales, you need
to go to the dealers commission and they

2280
02:54:35,439 --> 02:54:39,040
have standards for the amount of
pavement, for the amount of, you

2281
02:54:38,155 --> 02:54:44,399
[clears throat] know, things like that.
And the same thing with the auto body

2282
02:54:41,359 --> 02:54:49,840
auto body shops, they have to have um
something to extract the fumes. They

2283
02:54:46,399 --> 02:54:53,120
have to have uh you know enclosed paint
facilities now. It's not like the old

2284
02:54:51,520 --> 02:54:56,640
days pull the car into the garage and
just stop painting and we'll hang a

2285
02:54:54,560 --> 02:55:00,319
curtain up. They have extensive things
to protect the environment that are

2286
02:54:58,160 --> 02:55:05,920
built in. I think the biggest drawback
is when um you have that type of

2287
02:55:02,800 --> 02:55:10,640
operation and the person is stockpiling
cars because they think at some point

2288
02:55:08,560 --> 02:55:14,240
they might be able to repair them when
you know there's parts available from

2289
02:55:12,399 --> 02:55:19,840
other junk cars or whatever. So they'll
keep a lot of nonworking vehicles stored

2290
02:55:18,080 --> 02:55:21,840
on the property. That's the biggest
thing. Y.

2291
02:55:20,640 --> 02:55:26,319
» So again, if you're going to if we're
going to start looking at that second

2292
02:55:23,760 --> 02:55:31,359
page where you have the X's, I think
some of the uh the aesthetics that go

2293
02:55:30,080 --> 02:55:34,399
along with some of those types of
businesses are the problem. And then

2294
02:55:32,720 --> 02:55:37,279
yeah, you could move boat repair,
storage, sales, and auto body repair

2295
02:55:35,840 --> 02:55:40,399
back to the blue, but you've got to put
those protections in place. If

2296
02:55:38,720 --> 02:55:45,920
everything is enclosed and it's
regulated by the state, it may not be a

2297
02:55:43,120 --> 02:55:49,040
bad thing to have in in certain zones,
but you just have to be careful of that.

2298
02:55:47,680 --> 02:55:51,840
All of a sudden, you know, there's this
big perimeter fence that you can't see

2299
02:55:50,640 --> 02:55:56,000
through and you look and there's like
piles and piles of cars back there and

2300
02:55:54,319 --> 02:55:58,560
old auto body parts and stuff. They
said, "Well, I don't want to get rid of

2301
02:55:57,040 --> 02:56:03,040
it because I might be able to use it
someday."

2302
02:55:59,200 --> 02:56:07,520
» We do have um a use that's not on this
uh probably because um I'm not sure if

2303
02:56:06,000 --> 02:56:12,399
it was just not allowed or how it fell
within a special, but a junkyard, which

2304
02:56:09,680 --> 02:56:15,359
is a separate use than auto repair.
Sometimes the two go together, and we

2305
02:56:13,840 --> 02:56:20,640
would say then you're seeking both uses.
But if you're seeking to store a bunch

2306
02:56:16,880 --> 02:56:25,200
of um non-usable vehicles, then that's a
junkyard in town and that is a use that

2307
02:56:22,800 --> 02:56:29,279
can be nasty and we would want to make
sure we handle correctly with a lot of

2308
02:56:27,040 --> 02:56:31,760
screening and fencing. We have code that
does that already whether it's strong

2309
02:56:30,640 --> 02:56:34,080
enough or not.
>> This is just not allowed.

2310
02:56:32,560 --> 02:56:38,880
» But that that use I don't think is is
allowed right now and and it might just

2311
02:56:36,399 --> 02:56:42,000
be turned off and it's probably it may
not be on this because maybe it was

2312
02:56:40,479 --> 02:56:45,760
turned off even before the special use
permits came along. We deal with a lot

2313
02:56:44,319 --> 02:56:48,160
of the non-conforming existing
junkyards.

2314
02:56:47,359 --> 02:56:51,680
Um,
>> yeah, many towns just don't allow it.

2315
02:56:50,080 --> 02:56:55,920
And I'm not sure exactly how they define
it, whether it's like a number of cars

2316
02:56:53,680 --> 02:56:58,560
or what what the deal.
>> We were just looking at it today. I

2317
02:56:57,359 --> 02:57:04,160
think it was like you get to be a
junkyard. Once you have like more than

2318
02:57:00,880 --> 02:57:07,680
three nonfunctional automobiles, once
you start to just store more than three

2319
02:57:05,680 --> 02:57:11,359
non-functional automobiles, you're not
really repair. You're more of a

2320
02:57:09,040 --> 02:57:15,520
junkyard. You could probably go find
that

2321
02:57:12,720 --> 02:57:18,960
» if you just wrote down
>> certainly we we we've got some problem

2322
02:57:17,200 --> 02:57:22,319
properties where people are thinking I
can just throw these cars around my

2323
02:57:20,319 --> 02:57:25,600
house. So we have we have some problem
properties that

2324
02:57:23,680 --> 02:57:27,760
» we won't we won't go into details on the
specifics.

2325
02:57:26,240 --> 02:57:31,040
» There's some in the commercial zones I
can think of right now. Village

2326
02:57:28,960 --> 02:57:34,479
residential village commercial.
>> So one down

2327
02:57:33,760 --> 02:57:38,720
» street.
>> Yeah. So um do we have a question over

2328
02:57:38,399 --> 02:57:45,680
here?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Do we have anything that

2329
02:57:40,800 --> 02:57:53,279
addresses like um incinerators for uh
for like um p like power generation,

2330
02:57:49,680 --> 02:57:57,680
burning of garbage or or any of waste
products? And do we have anything for

2331
02:57:55,920 --> 02:58:02,000
crematoriums?
>> That's a question. Crematoriums came up

2332
02:57:59,840 --> 02:58:04,880
as a recent uh state issue. I don't know
if you were involved at all. I think it

2333
02:58:03,520 --> 02:58:08,800
was Tiverton.
>> Yeah. I I've just heard about it in the

2334
02:58:07,359 --> 02:58:12,160
news and I think it's this is
>> Yeah. No, I don't think we have anything

2335
02:58:10,160 --> 02:58:16,240
like that. I don't think we have a use
for a crematorium.

2336
02:58:14,240 --> 02:58:19,600
» Um
and uh

2337
02:58:17,760 --> 02:58:22,399
» we have mortuary and funeral home in
there. I don't know if that

2338
02:58:20,319 --> 02:58:26,160
» mortuary funeral home wouldn't wouldn't
allow a crematorium.

2339
02:58:24,399 --> 02:58:29,680
Um
what were the ones that you mentioned

2340
02:58:27,359 --> 02:58:35,200
before that John? uh some kind of
incinerator or whether it's incinerator

2341
02:58:32,319 --> 02:58:38,720
for power generation or just burning of
waste or

2342
02:58:36,160 --> 02:58:43,359
» I'm not sure if our code has um anything
that's like a power generation. It it

2343
02:58:40,640 --> 02:58:48,240
might have utility um substations type
of stuff, but I don't think we have like

2344
02:58:44,720 --> 02:58:52,000
a true power plant use.
You have the zoning code with us in the

2345
02:58:50,000 --> 02:58:56,560
box.
Yeah, that's a good question. I I don't

2346
02:58:54,720 --> 02:59:00,240
I mean if we have it we obviously it's
not on this list. I don't actually know

2347
02:58:58,479 --> 02:59:04,560
if we have what someone would say is a
use that allows pure just power plant or

2348
02:59:03,120 --> 02:59:09,920
power generation. We'll have to I'll
take a look.

2349
02:59:06,640 --> 02:59:13,760
Um, so thoughts on blue? I mean, I
circled cemetery because I don't think

2350
02:59:11,359 --> 02:59:20,560
cemetery is a is a land use that, you
know, we're focused on as needing a ton

2351
02:59:16,479 --> 02:59:26,720
of regulation. Um, but did others have
areas in blue that you felt were either

2352
02:59:22,720 --> 02:59:31,960
deserved to be in green? Um, or maybe
deserved a higher level of concern.

2353
02:59:35,520 --> 02:59:38,920
» I think they're

2354
02:59:38,960 --> 02:59:46,640
» great. And then I guess I'll ask um if
you don't mind before we go in the beige

2355
02:59:45,120 --> 02:59:51,439
section
um those were I we've kind of already

2356
02:59:49,120 --> 02:59:55,120
talked about the idea that maybe boat
repair storage sales and auto repair

2357
02:59:53,359 --> 02:59:58,399
might find its way into the blue. We do
have some good performance standards on

2358
02:59:56,800 --> 03:00:03,600
sections of that. I'm not saying we're
done. I do think that some of the these

2359
03:00:00,880 --> 03:00:08,160
uses might um need for me auto repair
could probably use a standard of minimum

2360
03:00:05,520 --> 03:00:10,880
distance to residential. Um, if you're
going to do that, that's fine to do in

2361
03:00:09,680 --> 03:00:14,560
commercial, but if there's a house next
to you, you have to be a little more

2362
03:00:12,399 --> 03:00:19,359
thoughtful on the noise, nuisance
activity that that use brings.

2363
03:00:16,960 --> 03:00:23,120
» I I think the top if we we're going to
include boat repair, storage, sales, and

2364
03:00:20,960 --> 03:00:27,439
auto body repair and put stringent
regulations and move that into blue. I

2365
03:00:25,279 --> 03:00:30,560
don't see why mortuary funeral home or
laundry, dry cleaner, and laundromat be

2366
03:00:29,840 --> 03:00:34,240
the same thing.
>> That's fair. I think that's a good

2367
03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:37,359
point. So, the top three categories,
maybe we kind of move those to blue. The

2368
03:00:36,160 --> 03:00:39,760
rest of them you get a little different.
You're into something. You just don't

2369
03:00:38,479 --> 03:00:42,720
know how big it's going to be or what
the impact's going to be or what they're

2370
03:00:40,960 --> 03:00:46,399
going to be. We're talking,
>> you know, compassion centers, commercial

2371
03:00:44,479 --> 03:00:49,840
animal raising, hospitals, campgrounds,
those are big operations. Yep.

2372
03:00:48,000 --> 03:00:52,399
» They probably do belong right where they
are.

2373
03:00:50,240 --> 03:00:55,680
» Yep.
>> Yep.

2374
03:00:54,000 --> 03:00:59,680
And I mean, you know, the thing that I
think uh what I assume is going to be

2375
03:00:57,760 --> 03:01:04,399
one of the primary regulatory tools
we're going to be looking at, so this is

2376
03:01:01,120 --> 03:01:10,240
a little bit more for Jim, um is we saw
it when we brought um uh cannabis retail

2377
03:01:07,920 --> 03:01:14,720
use. We saw it when we did gas stations.
We saw it when we did kennels. The main

2378
03:01:13,120 --> 03:01:19,200
concern and the thing everyone seems to
be focused on is a minimum separation

2379
03:01:16,880 --> 03:01:22,560
distance to residential. It's fine to do
this in business. Business doesn't tend

2380
03:01:21,200 --> 03:01:26,240
to bother other businesses. I'm not
worried if the business bothers another

2381
03:01:24,080 --> 03:01:29,439
business. You're a business, but it we
have a lot of residential. It's in and

2382
03:01:27,600 --> 03:01:32,720
around our commercial zones and some of
these uses jump out as saying if there

2383
03:01:31,200 --> 03:01:35,520
if you're in one of these residential,
if you're in a commercial zone and

2384
03:01:34,000 --> 03:01:40,160
you're close to residential, these are
uses that we don't feel as comfortable

2385
03:01:37,279 --> 03:01:44,560
as you approaching. And so that that I
assume is going to be one of the more

2386
03:01:42,640 --> 03:01:48,160
popular performance standards that we'll
keep coming back to. And there might be

2387
03:01:45,920 --> 03:01:52,640
a range like here, this use feels like
it's a 100 foot separation distance.

2388
03:01:49,760 --> 03:01:58,080
This one feels more of a nuisance. So,
are we going to 150? Is that enough?

2389
03:01:55,680 --> 03:02:02,479
Maybe there's some that we feel less. I
can tell you we did uh Dennis, what did

2390
03:02:00,560 --> 03:02:07,840
we do for retail cannabis? What was the
minimum distance to residential on

2391
03:02:04,240 --> 03:02:11,040
retail cannabis? Was it 100
maybe?

2392
03:02:08,080 --> 03:02:14,720
» Maybe 150. Minimum distance on a gas
station. We said the pumps shouldn't be

2393
03:02:12,800 --> 03:02:19,520
more uh shouldn't be less than 100 ft
from residential. Well, it's funny

2394
03:02:16,080 --> 03:02:23,120
because cannabis retail is so highly
regulated by the state with the

2395
03:02:21,279 --> 03:02:27,760
requirements for the security guards and
the the security that you have going in

2396
03:02:26,080 --> 03:02:32,240
and out of those places and the number
of parking spaces. They're no different

2397
03:02:29,920 --> 03:02:37,359
than any other retail outlet and
probably more stringent and regulated

2398
03:02:34,880 --> 03:02:41,680
than any. Um, just to throw that out
there. I know it's case by case. I think

2399
03:02:39,439 --> 03:02:45,279
the issue before was we're not sure we
want a whole bunch of these in town, so

2400
03:02:43,439 --> 03:02:50,399
let's try to regulate them with a
special use permit, almost like a liquor

2401
03:02:47,600 --> 03:02:53,760
license. But going down now, as I look
at the bottom of the list, I mean, we

2402
03:02:52,160 --> 03:02:58,160
were only talking about these aren't
just commercial zones. I can't imagine

2403
03:02:55,520 --> 03:03:02,560
anyone putting a campground, an outdoor
gun or archery range, or a golf course

2404
03:03:00,560 --> 03:03:05,680
in a general business zone in Coventry.
There's just not enough space. That

2405
03:03:04,240 --> 03:03:09,600
stuff would end up out in the rural
areas of town, either in the two or the

2406
03:03:07,760 --> 03:03:14,240
5 acre zone. I mean, it could be in any
residential zone, but there has to be a

2407
03:03:11,600 --> 03:03:19,439
significant amount of acreage available
to to build any of those. And I can't

2408
03:03:16,240 --> 03:03:22,479
see where separation to the residential
dwelling for a golf course. I mean,

2409
03:03:21,279 --> 03:03:26,640
obviously, you're not going to have the
holes teeing off right in some into

2410
03:03:24,479 --> 03:03:30,880
someone's backyard, but for the most
part, I mean, campgrounds, they could be

2411
03:03:28,960 --> 03:03:34,479
compatible with a minimum am amount of
screening. I mean, I guess it depends on

2412
03:03:32,800 --> 03:03:37,439
on how big it is and what it's going to
entertain if you're going to run

2413
03:03:35,600 --> 03:03:40,160
electricity and have a lot of campers in
there. But

2414
03:03:38,240 --> 03:03:43,840
» yeah, you can tell some of these uses,
campgrounds, outdoor gun, archery,

2415
03:03:42,240 --> 03:03:48,479
range, golf course, these were probably
special use permits in a lot of our

2416
03:03:45,600 --> 03:03:53,520
residential zones. So, I mean, while we
may not be ready to turn those uses on

2417
03:03:50,479 --> 03:03:57,359
by right in residential, um, I can see
where the the tool of a special use

2418
03:03:55,120 --> 03:04:02,319
permit made everyone feel safe that in
the perfect scenario, these uses might

2419
03:03:59,359 --> 03:04:06,000
work in in a very rural residential
area. Some of these uses don't jump out

2420
03:04:04,240 --> 03:04:09,040
as a fit in our commercial zones.
>> And there and there's license

2421
03:04:07,279 --> 03:04:12,800
requirements for I know at least for the
they got to come up every year for their

2422
03:04:10,479 --> 03:04:14,720
license before the town council every
single year.

2423
03:04:13,600 --> 03:04:17,920
» And there was one year where they
weren't renewing them. And they said,

2424
03:04:15,600 --> 03:04:21,279
"No, we don't we we don't think you you
know, you got people in there beyond

2425
03:04:19,840 --> 03:04:26,160
October 1st. There were already
regulations in place. They could only

2426
03:04:22,800 --> 03:04:28,800
operate from like May to October." And
people are like, "Yeah, but I got my

2427
03:04:27,600 --> 03:04:33,611
camp here and I want to stay all
winter." So, yes, [sighs]

2428
03:04:33,680 --> 03:04:38,720
» for their residential houses to be on
golf courses then.

2429
03:04:36,960 --> 03:04:41,120
» That's right. Or you can have a golf
course and they're not going to operate

2430
03:04:40,080 --> 03:04:43,359
that in the winter.
>> Yeah.

2431
03:04:41,439 --> 03:04:48,160
» So,
we'll see. I think what you'll see next

2432
03:04:45,120 --> 03:04:51,359
here won't just be a shuffling of uh
uses from one category to another. I

2433
03:04:50,160 --> 03:04:56,880
think you're going to see Weston and
Samson start to develop some initial

2434
03:04:53,439 --> 03:04:59,920
ideas around the appropriate code.
That's probably where Weston and Samson

2435
03:04:58,319 --> 03:05:05,279
and town staff will be talking about
details. I've kind of mentioned one of

2436
03:05:02,319 --> 03:05:09,439
the predominant uh provisions I see
being applied is a separation distance

2437
03:05:06,960 --> 03:05:12,720
to residential. I, you know, if we're in
a general business zone, you guys may

2438
03:05:11,200 --> 03:05:17,359
say, you know, Doug, we don't need to
slap a lot of specific regulations, but

2439
03:05:15,359 --> 03:05:23,520
we do want to protect our neighboring
residents. Um, and we might give you

2440
03:05:20,479 --> 03:05:27,520
guys something to reflect on um at the
next meeting. The I think the idea is

2441
03:05:26,160 --> 03:05:30,640
it's hard to know how busy our next
meeting is going to be yet. Um, we

2442
03:05:29,200 --> 03:05:34,080
probably we will have a major land
development at a preliminary plan scale

2443
03:05:32,319 --> 03:05:38,000
at our September. We have two September
meetings and so staff will kind of

2444
03:05:36,080 --> 03:05:42,560
debate maybe we put this on the agenda
of either because we don't know which

2445
03:05:40,640 --> 03:05:46,880
meeting might go quicker and we feel we
have extra time at the end. Um I

2446
03:05:45,520 --> 03:05:50,960
probably don't want to have Jim attend
both on the chance that what happens but

2447
03:05:48,960 --> 03:05:55,680
we'll uh Western Samson's scope to come
to a few more of these provide feedback

2448
03:05:53,920 --> 03:06:00,479
and uh we'll keep narrowing it down get
closer. Uh last questions on any of this

2449
03:05:58,640 --> 03:06:03,760
code work.
Jim, did you have anything that you felt

2450
03:06:01,920 --> 03:06:07,040
you needed to hear more on?
>> No, I don't think so. I think we got

2451
03:06:05,120 --> 03:06:10,319
some good direction tonight and this is
uh this is going to be very helpful

2452
03:06:08,399 --> 03:06:14,640
moving forward. Um, if we're going to
try and do the two September meetings,

2453
03:06:12,479 --> 03:06:16,160
we should we should talk about how to
things up.

2454
03:06:15,120 --> 03:06:19,120
» I would say we're not going to make you
do both. We're probably going to look at

2455
03:06:17,520 --> 03:06:20,240
it and we may pick what's the better
version.

2456
03:06:19,920 --> 03:06:23,760
» Okay.
>> Um, it's probably going to be our

2457
03:06:21,439 --> 03:06:26,640
regular meeting. I picture the project
we're going to see in a special meeting.

2458
03:06:24,960 --> 03:06:32,080
I don't I want to give that all the air
time we need to give it. So, we'll we'll

2459
03:06:30,000 --> 03:06:38,479
we'll put some thought into it and at
one of the September meetings, we'll

2460
03:06:34,000 --> 03:06:42,399
revisit with Jim here and uh we'll uh
then we have October and then the idea

2461
03:06:40,240 --> 03:06:46,880
is after October, we hopefully we've
gotten enough input and they're able to

2462
03:06:44,319 --> 03:06:52,080
wrap up their work.
Thank you very much everybody.

2463
03:06:48,960 --> 03:06:55,600
» Next uh item on the agenda is to direct
>> No, we don't need to there's nothing in

2464
03:06:53,600 --> 03:06:58,600
there we need to go over.
>> Yep.

2465
03:07:03,200 --> 03:07:06,520
I'll second.

2466
03:07:08,560 --> 03:07:12,359
» No, we you know what?

2467
03:07:21,840 --> 03:07:25,160
» Yeah, right.

2468
03:07:30,319 --> 03:07:33,319
information

2469
03:07:34,720 --> 03:07:39,720
and I just want to make sure