[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] Thank you, thank you, thank you.
[0:11] The plane had an ice, the ice did not function to exit plain.
[0:17] I would just be glad they did. I would just be glad they did.
[0:20] I would just be glad they did.
[0:21] I would just be glad they did.
[0:32] I don't know, like, don't think about half of the tree off the other people, but then make
[0:39] you feel we're all, we're all confident, we're going to get into the part.
[0:43] We're going to get into the other part, we're going to get into the other part, my one brother,
[0:50] it seemed like every time he went to fly something happen, they had parts go bad, or tire
[0:58] go flat or something. But in all the years, they always made it just fine. But oh, he used
[1:07] to tell us about flying out of Greenland. And can we open up the meeting for February 11th,
[1:15] study session? Teller doing homework. We do the role call, Mr. Manix.
[1:26] Council Member
[1:28] Council Member Mark McBrady, absent, Council Member Victorio Lentier, Vice Mayor Amy Lantz
[1:34] excused Mayor Terry Nolan.
[1:37] Public comment on non-agendized items anybody in the public want to say something.
[1:43] We want to start a steady session, I am for a, you know, we have three people on that.
[1:52] That's okay.
[1:53] The discussion with Mr. Dorpield and Planet X communities and obtained council input on the general plan update process.
[2:04] Topic of possible discussion and but include general plan steering committee.
[2:08] Public participation plan best practices and updating general plan.
[2:14] Mr. Thanks.
[2:16] Yes, Mr. Mayor council. Good evening.
[2:19] We do have Leslie Dornfield here from Planet Communities to give us update and a general idea of the process.
[2:28] She has a PowerPoint and we'll do a presentation to you, or for you, and answer any questions that you may have in regards to this.
[2:39] I'm sorry.
[2:43] I'm just a Dornfield.
[2:46] Then we won't time yet.
[2:47] Thank you.
[2:49] I think that would be good.
[2:50] We'll let you have more than three minutes.
[2:53] Or, right, we're going to have, thank you, Mayor.
[2:56] Thank you, members of the council.
[2:58] Thank you for your interest in the plan.
[3:01] Before we start this little slideshow here,
[3:04] I just want to reiterate what my job is as your consultant.
[3:08] And as your consultant, I'm here to listen to you,
[3:12] to listen to your community and help you achieve your goals.
[3:15] And what I bring to the table is tools.
[3:19] So, my job is to give you the tools to get what you want, my job is not to tell you what you want.
[3:26] I just want to be really clear about that upfront.
[3:29] As we go through this process, you might hear me saying things like, well, you could consider or have you thought about,
[3:34] but again, that's just to make sure that you have all of the choices in front of you before you make a decision.
[3:40] So, I just want to kind of lay that out there and let everybody know that.
[3:44] If any questions about that, please feel free to ask.
[3:46] So general plan assessment process.
[3:49] So to just remind you what we're doing now is looking at your current general plan and
[3:56] deciding if that plan is an adequate plan to just re-adopt or if you want to update the plan
[4:03] to address more current issues and more current challenges that you think you might be facing in the future.
[4:10] So the way we're going to assess this plan is to work with you and work with your community.
[4:15] and so I just want to go through that process with you a little bit. So what I'm going to talk about today,
[4:19] do you feel like a quicker one? Okay, you can close the next. So what I'm going to talk about with you today
[4:27] or what we're going to assess just a quick overview of that, how we're going to get people included in the
[4:33] assessment process, what the role of the steering committee is because our proposal was based on
[4:39] a steering committee model. And then staff just asked me to talk to a little bit about some best practices
[4:44] when you look at updating a plan. So I'll throw some of that out there for your consideration. Next.
[4:50] So with the projection areas, the areas that we're going to look at when we begin to assess
[4:55] your plan and just to remind you, we have Rick Merritt from Elliott DiPolic and Company,
[5:00] and also Kim Lee Horin that did your transportation plan update. They're both on our team.
[5:04] So as we go through the assessment, we'll be also relying on their expertise in certain areas.
[5:10] One of the things we'd probably want to look at are the projections,
[5:12] So those accurate to those reflect what we think will happen over the next 10 to 20 years will look at your maps.
[5:19] Those reflect your community, your current transportation system, your current trails and open space system.
[5:25] Even what's on the ground in terms of currently induced any areas.
[5:29] And also since that plan was adopted, technology has changed so much that we can just do we want the same quality of map or do we want to improve that as well.
[5:39] Looking at your land use plan and the land use categories that you have, do those make sense for you as you move to the future and not.
[5:47] Again, this will all come through community dialogue.
[5:52] Looking at your roadway classifications, your circulation system, the cost of development element.
[5:57] I will point out there have been some very substantial changes to state law since your plan was written.
[6:02] We might want to reflect that in the plan.
[6:04] Open space trails, I believe you adopted a trail's plant since your last
[6:08] general plan update. We might want to think about incorporating that environmental
[6:12] planning. The state law talks about, it's just sort of the impact on air and
[6:18] water quality, but there are other topics you could include in environmental
[6:21] planning. If you felt they were relevant, water resources, this is becoming an
[6:27] important topic throughout the state. There was just another article in the
[6:30] paper about it today. And then also what it's going to take to amend your
[6:34] and we'll plan, do you want to look at that old process
[6:36] because remember we must conform to the plan,
[6:39] that's by state law.
[6:40] So what does that really mean?
[6:42] Like for example, in Phoenix, you can do anything you want
[6:46] as long as it's not bigger than 640 acres
[6:48] and it doesn't matter what your general plan says.
[6:51] In Cave Creek, I think they changed it to 10,
[6:55] but it used to be actually updating their plan.
[6:57] It has to match every acre has to match the plan.
[7:00] Again, that's up to you.
[7:02] What do you want to decide in terms of your amendment process? How much discretion do you want to give to yourself to make zoning decisions or your planning commission to make recommendations next?
[7:13] So those are all the topics we're going to look at in this assessment process.
[7:18] So how are we going to do that? We're going to engage in the public and our proposal includes basically five meetings, three of them are steering committee meetings.
[7:25] One of them is a community meeting and one of them is a presentation to both the Town Council and the Planning Commission.
[7:32] I'm a famous way.
[7:34] I'll go through each of those quickly.
[7:37] Next.
[7:38] So here's the steering committee meetings.
[7:40] At our first meeting, we're going to go through scope and schedule.
[7:43] So those icons are meant to be a scope icon or schedule icon.
[7:47] And then what the vision for the plan is.
[7:50] So you have a vision in your current plan.
[7:52] We're going to ask this during committee to look at it and we'll go through a facilitated exercise
[7:58] that asks them, do you feel this is still appropriate for your community or not?
[8:03] And that's going to begin to tell us, you know, it's the plan really on track or not. We're going to
[8:07] begin to look at each of these things and down the line when we bring our recommendations to
[8:13] if the vision has changed, we might say, you know, the community has different ideas for a vision
[8:17] then that's in the old plan or we might say community thinks existing vision is absolutely great.
[8:22] we don't think that should change. The second meeting, and you see those big exclamation points,
[8:28] it's really meant to say, what are the big topics we think we need to address over the next
[8:32] 10 to 20 years. And although a general plan is only a 10-year document, one of the things I want to
[8:38] point out, and I say this to a lot of communities, is what you put in place now is the trajectory
[8:44] for what you get in the future. So a lot of communities say 10 years, it's not that long,
[8:50] But a lot happens in 10 years, and 10 years ago, we didn't have self-driving vehicles.
[8:56] So if you think about things like that, 20 years ago, our cell phones were practically
[9:02] flips, look at our smartphones now, their computers in our hands.
[9:05] So so much changes over 10 or 20 years.
[9:08] And we want to make sure that we put in place now the things that will leave the doors open
[9:13] for what we want to be doing in the future, our choices in the future.
[9:17] So, those are the big topics to look at, and then the other thing we want to look at are
[9:22] what do we see as challenges to going forward?
[9:25] So theoretically we have our vision and people have talked about that, we then say, okay,
[9:30] what are the big ideas in that vision and what are the challenges that may be, we need to address.
[9:35] And the thinking here was that I would take those challenges and look at your plan and say,
[9:40] hey, are we talking about this in your current plan or not?
[9:42] Are we missing or their gaps?
[9:45] And again, that's something we would bring forward to you.
[9:48] We'll also take those challenges at a little arrow
[9:50] to a community meeting.
[9:51] I'll talk about the format of that.
[9:52] Have the community talk about the challenges and the vision
[9:55] and how that all aligns.
[9:58] And once the community has given us that information,
[10:00] I'll bring all that information back to the steering committee.
[10:05] And they'll begin to say, hey,
[10:06] these are the things we want to address in our plan.
[10:09] And these are the big topics we think we need to talk about.
[10:11] And we might even want to add some pieces to our plan, we might want to take pieces out of it.
[10:17] And we also said, we'll give you a format, and really what that format could be is,
[10:22] do you just want to paper document?
[10:23] Do you want something that's online and digital?
[10:25] There's a whole variety of ways to format things now,
[10:28] and provide that information to the community so they can access it.
[10:32] And that might be a discussion of how you want to do that.
[10:36] Next.
[10:38] So that's the steering committee process and I'll talk about what its steering committee is in a minute.
[10:43] This is our community meeting and I want to be very clear, these are just tables of people, they're not focus groups.
[10:49] And the way the community meeting will work and typically I think for this community so that everybody gets to say and nobody's left out of the discussion and everybody gets to talk about what they want to talk about at the meeting.
[11:01] It's typically, it's, it's, it's, it's, I've heard it called a town hall style model.
[11:06] I, you may have heard of Arizona town hall. Sometimes they use this model.
[11:10] You'll have steering committee members at each of the tables that act as reporters
[11:15] and act as, um, what I would call moderators. They guide the discussion.
[11:21] And so those are your community members talking to community members.
[11:25] And what we do is we typically break the meeting up into, we do a presentation on,
[11:30] what the steering committee said, here's what they think is important. Here are the issues they
[11:35] think are important. Tell us what you think. Are they right? Are they wrong? Are they wrong? You know,
[11:39] do you have other ideas? And we take each one of these tables and it's an issue. It's the topic. Maybe
[11:44] there are two topics per table. But the community rotates through all the tables during that meeting.
[11:50] So if it's a two hour meeting and we have four tables, it's 20 minutes a table. If there's a gazillion
[11:56] topics we might say you guys you need to pick four topics we can't have everybody rotate
[12:01] through 15 topics in a two or three hour meeting but we'll make it work or we could put
[12:06] two or three topics in a table that just depends on where we're at when we're there those
[12:10] fine details. At the end of the meeting so everybody here is what was said at the tables the
[12:16] reporters go back and present to the front of the room here is what our table said here are
[12:20] the important things they said all those notes get saved we document all that and that gets turned
[12:26] into a public engagement document that we can provide to you.
[12:29] You can post on your web.
[12:31] So everybody knows what everybody is saying.
[12:34] It's all out there.
[12:35] There's nothing that's not out there.
[12:38] And I want to be really clear in this meeting.
[12:40] What I do is I walk around the tables and say,
[12:42] hey, are you talking?
[12:43] You don't seem like you've said a lot.
[12:44] So my job is really to facilitate.
[12:46] I don't tell people what to say.
[12:47] I don't direct the conversation.
[12:50] What I call driving questions for the topic tables
[12:53] are developed by the steering committee.
[12:54] So this is a from the community to the community of that and my job is to organize it and then make sure people are engaged. So that's the community meeting.
[13:04] Then the last piece that we have on the public engagement process next slide is presenting to you in a joint meeting with your planning commission.
[13:13] And the things that were scoped to present to you are the plan organization what we think should be in it based on what we've heard from the community.
[13:22] things we might want to update or add, again, based on what we've heard from the community, and then a schedule, and I think that this can also be something the steering committee gives us a lot of guidance.
[13:31] Here's how we want to continue to involve the public in the future.
[13:35] Here's our schedule. Here's how we think we can move it forward.
[13:38] So again, my job is really just to facilitate the communications between the community and the...
[13:44] So that's the public process.
[13:47] I can stop the answer questions or go on, it's up to you.
[13:50] Should I keep rolling?
[13:51] No, I got a question.
[13:53] Okay.
[13:53] Back on page five.
[13:56] You got,
[13:58] yeah.
[13:59] You know, here.
[14:02] Meaning three that you're going into new, new issues.
[14:06] And I thought first phase of this was just to go past go through the existing plan.
[14:12] and work on that to make sure stuff like that
[14:16] doesn't need to be changed.
[14:17] It looks like you're going, you know,
[14:20] can totally into the new.
[14:22] No, no, that's not what that's intended to say.
[14:25] That might be trying to think of something.
[14:28] You don't have a historic preservation element in your current plan.
[14:31] Someone through the community meetings,
[14:33] we might have a lot of people saying, you know what?
[14:35] We need a historic preservation element.
[14:37] We need to represent our community.
[14:38] we need to preserve the five historic buildings we have, so that new might be my saying to you
[14:45] you don't have a historic preservation element in your plan now, you might want to include one
[14:50] later. That's all it is. It's not going into the new topics, but I'm certainly in a public meeting.
[14:55] I wouldn't recommend saying to someone while we can't talk about it.
[15:00] Anything new in the future. You know what I mean? We can't. So that's all it's meant. It's not to say to bring in new issues. It would be anything that's generated by the community that we're not addressing now that I would hope to bring forward to you to say your current plan isn't addressing these community concerns.
[15:16] I mean, you might want to think about addressing them. That's what that's meant to say.
[15:28] I'm going to ask you jointly with Mr. Siglo, our attorney, I had a question that was posed
[15:35] to me to bring you four of this council meeting based on the general plan.
[15:39] The town council was obligated to follow the general plan.
[15:43] Land use is a large part of the general plan and that part has a future zoning map that the town would like the town to grow into.
[15:55] The actual town zoning map is slightly different from this.
[16:01] I know that the council will want to change more of this future zoning map in the new general plan.
[16:07] The question is, will the existing zoning maps stay in place until the private landowner's
[16:16] request to change in zoning that matches the future zoning map?
[16:21] And if the town request changes in town zoning to match the future zoning map, will prop
[16:28] 207 kick in.
[16:30] So if the town council requests to change prior to the future zoning map, will prop to a
[16:37] I'm really glad you asked that question.
[16:40] The general plan does not have a zoning map in it.
[16:42] It has a general plan land use map.
[16:47] That's in statute.
[16:48] That land use map specifies the intensity and density
[16:52] of proposed land uses, also in statute.
[16:57] It is not zoning.
[16:59] Zoning prescribes specific uses, dog kennels, nursing homes,
[17:06] hospitals, it prescribes setbacks, it prescribes curb cuts, it prescribes height.
[17:14] General plan land use categories don't do that.
[17:16] It's a land use category.
[17:19] A bunch of zoning classes can fit into any category.
[17:24] Many times, and it has happened, where communities want to be really progressive with their plan,
[17:29] they'll go and potentially look at updating their zoning ordinance after their plan.
[17:34] However, a general plan does not change on the ground zoning at all in any way by law.
[17:41] So, anything you have does not change.
[17:44] So, you might ask, well, then why even bother with a general plan that?
[17:47] Because it's meaningless, right?
[17:50] Where a general plan map has an influence is as we move to the future.
[17:54] So, let's say a great example is I'm doing some work in Casa Grande on their general plan.
[18:02] and they're very excited about their historic downtown.
[18:08] One of the things they want to do in their historic downtown
[18:11] is allow taller buildings so that they can have
[18:14] maybe three or four-story residential in that area.
[18:17] A lot of the zoning there right now doesn't permit it.
[18:19] It also doesn't permit mixed use where you could have
[18:22] like retail in the bottom and residential on top.
[18:25] The general plan, if you want to change your zoning,
[18:28] You need to change it to align with the general plan, or you need to amend the plan, which is why your plan amendment process is important.
[18:39] There's a lot of communities that have general plans and zoning sits in six years into it.
[18:44] Some guy comes along or some woman comes along and says, hey, I want to change my zoning on these 50 acres, 10 acres, two acres, whatever it is.
[18:51] And you might say, if your amendment process, depending on your amendment process, which we get into,
[18:57] you got to change it to meet the plan.
[18:58] They might say, you know what that plan is?
[18:59] Six years old, it doesn't make sense anymore.
[19:02] As a counsel, you would say, you know what?
[19:03] Bring us forward a plan amendment.
[19:05] We'll change the plan to meet the zoning you want.
[19:08] So the plan has two valves.
[19:11] One, it doesn't mess with what you've got.
[19:13] And two, you can always change the plan.
[19:14] It has to be flexible.
[19:16] It's not in concrete.
[19:19] And I'll give you a great example why.
[19:21] I don't know if any of you read the paper lately,
[19:23] but Tempie just built the first department complex
[19:25] where you're not allowed to have cars.
[19:27] Done.
[19:28] No cars, some light rail.
[19:30] It's made national news.
[19:31] It's a real groundbreaking project.
[19:34] And the general plan, right, anticipated that kind of development.
[19:40] If that guy wanted to go into that site
[19:43] and build a standard old school one story building,
[19:46] the plan might not have let him do it,
[19:48] as Temp he said in the future we want to change.
[19:51] He could have used his existing zoning.
[19:53] I don't know what it was.
[19:54] It was probably commercial.
[19:55] Or he could change to what the plan wanted.
[19:57] Or he could have chosen to amend the plan.
[20:00] So a plan does not affect existing zoning.
[20:03] So 207, it's not an issue.
[20:06] Now, if, for example, your plan had regulatory policies
[20:10] like this area now shall become a historic preservation zone
[20:14] and you can't change the facade of your property.
[20:17] It's still a policy, but maybe someone could go after you or not, and you might, you know, but that's really it.
[20:24] It's not a tool of seven document.
[20:27] And there is no zoning map in a general plan. I cannot say that strongly enough and enough.
[20:34] Yes.
[20:34] Okay. So when you look at the land use portion of the general plan, it looks a lot like a zoning map.
[20:43] only the uses look bigger because we're a general planals say commercial it's
[20:52] fitting in C1, C2, I1, C3 in that area or instead of saying industrial heavy industrial
[20:59] is a employment as that big bubble on the general plan. But you're right there's an inconsistency
[21:09] for a period of time, if the general plan land use is different than this used lovely example,
[21:23] the general plan says high density public transportation fed apartment complex here,
[21:33] But the land uses single-family housing for zoning, okay?
[21:39] So you've got a little bit of an inconsistency there.
[21:43] The issue, though, is that zoning category is what that person has
[21:51] and they could continue to have single-family housing on that forever.
[21:57] In fact, if it was empty and assuming that the city didn't get going
[22:02] and changed the zoning while the use was abandoned or something.
[22:07] They could build a new single thing on the house there.
[22:11] Now, if being as were in this phase,
[22:15] close now we're in the process to go in a council to go in and change the usage at this point
[22:22] without hearing from the community or the landowners to try to change that a men with
[22:29] the landowners permission, would that now cause some great general plan?
[22:35] But 207, yeah, no, not the general plan.
[22:39] Because they'll change the zoning use that they always had on them.
[22:45] Now, they don't retain, because they don't have any right
[22:49] to a change other than the general plan.
[22:53] And less they can get you guys to agree to modify the general plan's land plan at the same time.
[23:02] Through them. And I might add, the state law requires a public process to develop a general plan.
[23:11] Okay, women, the scholars have everything up here.
[23:14] Okay, I've seen in the past where towns cities have come in with an area plan when they know if they have their shortcoming.
[23:22] on maybe they've got an older plan and they've got a short coming and now the market's opening up.
[23:28] There's more interest in growth and
[23:34] Chandler did this before in the head of General of Plan actually in place.
[23:37] They were in the planning process for the General of Plan.
[23:40] But they did their ERPART plan.
[23:42] It seems really got decommissioned and went to an ERPART authority because they were going to be in direct competition.
[23:52] So an area plan is not a general plan, it's a zone, well, we're creating a zone in history.
[24:01] Not a district, but a plan for a specific area.
[24:05] So that's part of a zoning process, which can be done.
[24:11] So in Mesa, we did an area plan for the area right next to Mesa Gateway Airport, right?
[24:16] And it's where you may have read about the dairy farmers who want to move out.
[24:20] So we did that area plan.
[24:24] The area plan doesn't change zoning.
[24:27] It simply sets a framework for city policy.
[24:30] Zoning is zoning.
[24:31] There's a legislative process that has to be followed to change zoning.
[24:36] All a plan does.
[24:38] It's like a public declaration of a community intent.
[24:42] It's a policy.
[24:43] And those policies can change, there is one plan, one type of plan in state law to override zoning.
[24:50] That's called a specific plan.
[24:52] It's in the same statute as a general plan.
[24:55] Specific plans have a specific adoption process.
[24:58] They have notification requirements.
[25:00] And they are separate from general plans.
[25:03] And it is only a specific plan that has more lymph than zoning.
[25:09] And that, if you adopted it, someone might want to argue 207.
[25:13] His story, overlay district, which has some real regulations with it.
[25:17] Someone might want to argue 207.
[25:19] All other plans are statements of community intent.
[25:23] It was a piece of paper policy that we had.
[25:26] Okay, Mr. Hughes.
[25:27] The general plan is a future look at what you would like it to be.
[25:33] It does not change any zoning just because of the domestic plan saving that we could have
[25:39] skyscrapers doesn't mean that you're going to, you can go in there and do a skyscraper,
[25:43] but you're zoning right now, what would mean is you can come back to the council at that point,
[25:48] say, hey, in the general plant shows this down the road, I would like to do that.
[25:53] And then it's in the plant and everybody agreed to it, so then the council would go, yes, that's perfect.
[25:58] That's what the general plant is for, but it doesn't change anybody's zoning, it's totally different than the plant.
[26:06] is a vision into the future and what the community would like to sleep at
[26:11] town like. It doesn't change anybody's zone that all night doesn't mean that you
[26:16] can, because it doesn't, you know, plant doesn't mean that you're going to have
[26:21] skyscrapers.
[26:22] Right.
[26:22] Because your zone is what it is right now.
[26:25] Okay.
[26:27] When you had.
[26:27] No.
[26:28] Okay.
[26:29] Okay.
[26:30] All right.
[26:31] Yes.
[26:31] Yes.
[26:32] Okay.
[26:33] You said specific plan.
[26:34] I get confused because I've heard of strategic plans before.
[26:38] Not the same thing, okay.
[26:40] Yeah, so a specific plan is a legislative plan.
[26:43] It's in state law.
[26:44] General plan is in state law.
[26:46] I believe master plan is in state law.
[26:48] Typically, it applies to system plans like water.
[26:51] I think water may be in trend.
[26:52] I don't think you required even that a state transfer.
[26:54] So be a water plan would be a master plan, that's in state law.
[26:58] There is a redevelopment plan, that's in state law,
[27:01] but that doesn't change zoning.
[27:03] That's in accordance with a redevelopment area, but an area plan, a community plan, neighborhood
[27:08] plan, all of these are just policy documents.
[27:12] Yeah, because my understanding of an area plan is that the town decides they can initiate
[27:18] a policy that says that in the future we may want to allow this use, but you're still going
[27:25] to have to go through the zoning.
[27:27] I don't know what to live in. Absolutely.
[27:29] One out.
[27:31] See, three or whatever.
[27:32] Absolutely.
[27:33] Absolutely.
[27:34] All the area of the plant is a statement of policy.
[27:38] We're opening to the suggestion if you want to pay our filing fee for the paperwork.
[27:44] Yeah, and you know, the one thing I want to add to is just because the general plan says,
[27:49] I'll make up something.
[27:50] Let's see if you had an area of your community, which the general plan land is was residential for the eight units to the acre.
[27:56] and some guy came in with a seven unit to the acre project and it's crappy. You don't have to
[28:02] approve it. You know, you say, yeah, that's the density development we want, but we certainly
[28:06] don't want that kind of development. And you can deny it. So all it does is set of framework for
[28:12] decision making. They can come in enough. So they can, you can say, no, if it's the only reason
[28:22] the plan helps is if let's say they came in at 4 to 8 units the acre in that area and they
[28:27] wanted 15 units to the acre again depending on how your amendment process was structured so
[28:33] depending on the size the acreage and you could do other things like a from and a 2 is but depending
[28:38] on how that process was structured you could say well you know we think this is a really big
[28:43] influential development it impacts the character of the area pretty significantly it's not
[28:52] is the community to take a broader look. That's why they have a plan amendment process. It really
[28:56] takes it forces you to take a big look. It impacts, you know, let's say you bring in something
[29:00] that's specifically under what you anticipated or over. Let's say the town just invested in a sewer
[29:06] system. And some guy came in with 70 acres or 80 acres, at less than one unit to the acre and you
[29:12] plan for that to be a regular subdivision and the fees on that subdivision. We're going to help you
[29:21] in our plan either at that density. We need that higher density development to make our
[29:25] bond payments. So that's what a plan really helps you do. It makes you step back and think
[29:30] about the bigger implications.
[29:35] There's going to be a short follow-up. When I used to follow a lot of the planning stuff down
[29:41] the East Valley because it was like crazy town down there. And basically it was like, these people
[29:47] competing with these people or competing with these other people, and it's like they would
[29:53] do these, sometimes it wasn't even aeroplane, it would be like a sectional, because they
[29:59] wanted...
[30:00] If they heard a rumor that that guy was going to, if the other town was going to get a Walmart or something, they would change something so that it could go in their town.
[30:09] But it was still, it was a way of attracting business that may not have come there if the opportunity wasn't expressed in the policy statement from the town.
[30:19] That's one thing I've seen it, that's what I've understood it to be used for.
[30:23] Yes, yes, why I'm watching it, okay, that's that's been what Martin did today.
[30:31] Thank
[30:34] you.
[30:35] You going?
[30:36] Yeah.
[30:36] Okay.
[30:38] What's up?
[30:39] Next.
[30:40] Oh, steering committee.
[30:41] The role of a steering committee.
[30:44] So, I've been told by staff that you've had a lot of discussion on the steering committee
[30:50] and how you want to move forward with that.
[30:52] And so I thought I would just talk a little bit about what their job is, and a lot of this
[30:58] information was taken from the center of law and justice. So I've, you know, tailored some of
[31:05] it to make sense to you, but it's sort of standard what a steering committee does. And really,
[31:12] their most important role is to make sure that the project is successful. But doesn't mean it's
[31:16] adopted. It means that the project is successful. It goes through the steps that was meant to go
[31:21] through it provides you with the information it was meant to provide you with.
[31:26] That's the job of this project.
[31:28] We're not saying the goal of this project is to have you update your plan,
[31:32] or not have you update your plan.
[31:33] The goal of this project is to give you the information to make that decision.
[31:38] That's our goal.
[31:40] So it's going to guide the steering committee guides the process from start to finish.
[31:43] And what that really means is I would hope somebody on the steering committee would say,
[31:49] look we did some work in eager and someone said you know you could have a meeting on Wednesday night,
[31:53] but Wednesday night the church has its study groups and no one's going to show up.
[31:58] So we didn't have our meeting someone's day night. So that was one helpful way of steering committee
[32:02] helped us. They can give us information and history on topics. They provide input on the process
[32:11] and the strategies. So if for example I brought to the steering committee this approach for a public meeting
[32:17] People might say, you know what, and again, this is not the case of do we humble, but in some of the areas I've worked, you know, 60% of our inhabitants don't speak English as a first language you need to translate it.
[32:29] So we would get a translator in it. So that's something that they could buy the song.
[32:33] They review and comment on our project product. So for example, one of the things that I'd mentioned is we're going to give you back all those comments we get from the community.
[32:42] I'd hope the steering committee would review and somewhat say, you know, my table was really wrapped around this topic and I don't really see you putting the right amount of emphasis on them. I'll say, oh, thanks for that help.
[32:53] Boom, so they review what we do and they make sure that it really reflects the community.
[33:00] And then they provide ideas and advice and negotiate unanticipated project challenges.
[33:04] So I don't know what those might be, but you know, if I could say to them, hey, you know,
[33:10] one of the biggest topics that the community meeting was the lack of a bike lane,
[33:16] stripe bike lane on unpaid roads, I'm making up something crazy, you know, and someone might say,
[33:21] yeah, you know, we have a really active bike community here. Maybe we need to reach out to them and
[33:26] have a special dialogue to see how we can get through that because obviously if you paint a bike
[33:30] I'm on paid road. It's going to wash off. So you know, but that's sort of what they can do.
[33:36] So that's partly their role. There really are what I call the first screen. Next slide.
[33:44] So the typical composition of the steering committee are cyclists. People that are going to be
[33:48] impacted by the plan. Anyone in your community, a resident, what I've learned is by ordinance. They
[33:53] have to be residents, but maybe business owners that are residents, maybe people that work out of their homes,
[33:58] people that operate businesses from their own property.
[34:02] We're hoping that you would bring in some not-for-profit partners.
[34:06] You know, those people will be impacted by your plan and you will impact them.
[34:10] The planning process is a great time to negotiate.
[34:14] It's a way of making your concerns heard to those other entities and agencies.
[34:19] And so, for example, if the BLM knows that open space is really, really important to you
[34:24] and they hear that through the discussion of this plan.
[34:26] And I'm not saying they will, but like in theory,
[34:29] they went and traded off a whole bunch of P.O.E. is open space.
[34:32] You know, maybe that'll be something where the meeting,
[34:34] if the B.L. and somebody says,
[34:35] oh, you know what?
[34:35] Do we help both?
[34:36] Don't even go near that topic.
[34:38] They'll come after you like with tomatoes.
[34:40] So it's just a good way of informing those agencies,
[34:42] and also implementers.
[34:44] So it puts them on the hook to say,
[34:45] hey, we're going to look at this topic,
[34:47] and we expect you're going to have a role in it.
[34:49] You know, you're going to help us.
[34:50] And it doesn't say what that role is,
[34:52] but it puts them on notice they're not off the hook.
[34:54] So that's some of the members
[34:56] of a steering committee.
[34:57] Ms Collins?
[34:59] I don't hear really good.
[35:02] We don't have an ordinance for this yet.
[35:04] I think we're going to have one.
[35:06] We have to have a public participation plan for an ordinance that that got repealed.
[35:13] We've got businesses, people that operate businesses here that don't live here.
[35:18] They are allowed to participate.
[35:21] They non-residences can participate but can't vote on city citizen committees.
[35:32] That's what your code says.
[35:35] So, I mean, you're just stuck with that unless you want to change the code somehow.
[35:41] Well, you haven't decided if you'd have any voting happening in this way.
[35:49] Well, you've got two choices given the code, council subcommittees and citizen committees,
[35:59] ad hoc committees, it tells you how to form them, and it tells you who can be members.
[36:05] And yes, you can have people that are non-resident sitting there and even talking, but they can't vote.
[36:12] Now, you know, that's, that's what it says currently,
[36:21] okay?
[36:23] Next.
[36:29] So what's, what's, as a steering committee member, what would you expect a member to do?
[36:34] What are your residents taking under responsibility or the commitment to do when they become a steering committee member?
[36:40] One, they need to understand what we're doing here.
[36:43] So everyone that sits on that steering committee has to recognize that we're not developing the plan in this process.
[36:49] We're looking at your current plan and determining how to move forward, and that doesn't mean you will move forward.
[36:55] It's asking the question, how do we want to move forward, or if we wanted to straight out, which is partly how to move forward.
[37:02] They need to understand why it's important to them or the organization they might represent.
[37:09] And part of that is because certain times during committee members represent a point of view, and they need to understand the significance of the project to the point of view they represent.
[37:18] It's just not about you, it's about the larger community.
[37:23] So for example, if you represent it, a homeowner's association, and your house wasn't near
[37:28] the road, but part of your community was, and I'm making this up, but someone said, yeah,
[37:36] one of the things we need to talk about is putting in a super highway, right here, that person
[37:40] needs to say, not say, well, my house is next to the road, I'm not going to worry about it,
[37:43] because that's super highway, we'll benefit my business, they need to say, hey, wait a minute,
[37:47] our homeowner's association would sit on that super highway.
[37:51] We need to think about it if that's something we want to talk about in the update.
[37:56] They really need to be genuinely interested in the project and the intended outcomes.
[38:00] People that just sit there so they can put stuff on their resume that doesn't help us.
[38:04] I've had those kinds of committees and the problem is bad info in, bad info out.
[38:10] You really do want to hear from your community.
[38:12] And then the last thing is to be a project advocate by doing what they can to promote its output.
[38:17] So one of the things I would hope steering committee members do is talk about the plan.
[38:22] I encourage people to attend the public meeting when we bring to you the ultimate kind of findings of the steering committee for you to act.
[38:31] Maybe community members might want to show up.
[38:33] Maybe they might want to show up at the steering committee meetings in Cass Grande.
[38:37] What we do is we have a public comment period for the steering committee.
[38:40] people get up and they talk. And it, you know, it educates everybody. So again, we want
[38:45] to hear from the community as much as possible. We want to design this so as many people
[38:49] as possible get to have a voice. So that's the role of the members.
[38:55] Okay, next.
[38:58] Okay, so now I'm
[38:59] going to just move to kind of best practices for general plan updates. This is something staff
[39:04] asked me to look at. And this isn't best practices for the process necessarily. But this is
[39:10] If you're going to do a general plan, if you're going to update your general plan, what are some of the things you might want to think about? What are some of the best practices?
[39:18] And I did some review on the internet and looked around and pulled these some of the variety of communities across the country.
[39:25] They're all pretty much the same to be honest. One of the most important best practices is to engage the community.
[39:31] If you don't have a plan that reflects your community, you don't have a plan that your community will support.
[39:37] And your plan talks about important things.
[39:39] It will talk about future land uses.
[39:42] It might talk about your transportation system,
[39:44] your parks and recreation system, economic development
[39:47] objectives.
[39:48] You want your community to support that.
[39:51] So you don't want to have to fight every time you make a decision.
[39:54] The plan really needs to think about when it looks
[39:56] to the future, what's changing.
[39:58] And our world is changing.
[40:00] And so here's a list of some of the things that typically
[40:03] the plans look at, the democracy, the demographics,
[40:07] demographics, mobility, the economy, the environment,
[40:10] and healthy living, which is becoming predominant,
[40:12] almost every single thing we do.
[40:14] The plan needs to communicate effectively.
[40:17] How do you make that plan available to people?
[40:20] And how do you make that the products
[40:21] of the planning process available to your community?
[40:25] The other thing is the plan really needs to think big.
[40:29] Nothing is perfect.
[40:31] And if we don't really think big,
[40:33] then we're not going to get anywhere. If we think small, we're going to end up with small.
[40:37] And so really, what's the big picture that we're going for here? And then also consider what's
[40:41] possible in the short and hidden long term, because when you think big, you have to get their
[40:45] journey as a thousand steps. You got to take the first few steps. That short term. What do we have
[40:50] control of now? And that goes back to setting the path, making sure the door stay open. What
[40:55] we're going to do in the short term to make sure we don't close out opportunities for our community
[41:00] in the long term. That's really the benefit of applying. Next slide.
[41:04] So here are just some of the things that you might want to think about in these areas.
[41:08] Community engagement. You want to make sure all generations are involved.
[41:12] A lot of processes we do reach after schools.
[41:16] A lot of ways we get to parents are through schools.
[41:19] Considering underrepresented population, I remember hearing, I think it was you Council and Council
[41:23] and Council talked about folks that might be shut-ins or might not be able to access the process.
[41:27] Those are underrepresented populations. How do we get to them?
[41:31] People that might not feel comfortable interacting with government. How do we get to them?
[41:35] And we want to provide multiple opportunities and avenues.
[41:38] Some people don't read that well. Some people may not be computer-literate.
[41:42] Some people might want to be in public.
[41:44] So you've got to provide everybody a chance to have their say.
[41:46] That's part of the community engagement. Next.
[41:49] There's college.
[41:50] I just don't want to forget this.
[41:52] somebody asked me to mention it. As far as the wide community engagement and widespread engagement
[41:58] we're doing a computer based, an info I realized because we have not got the money to do a proper one,
[42:07] but I'm getting incoming on that like it would not believe.
[42:11] There's a lot of ways we can address that. I threw out Survey Monkey because it's easy,
[42:17] but that doesn't mean that's your only venue. A lot of communities what they'll do
[42:21] They'll print out the survey monkey survey and you leave it at places all around town.
[42:25] If you want, you can print the survey in the newspaper.
[42:28] Just because it's available on survey monkey doesn't mean it's not available in other venues
[42:32] and in other formats.
[42:34] And typically we do do that.
[42:36] So I think if someone's nervous that they're not going to have access to it on a computer
[42:40] or on their smartphone, they can get hard-cocketed.
[42:44] I think the last survey the town did, they found out that 50% of the people that live here
[42:49] They're being telephoned. It's still wet, right?
[42:52] Yeah. So we are a lot of white people. I know, don't like it.
[42:57] Oh, I'm just too hard copy for them.
[42:59] I guess it's changed now itself. Yeah. Mr. Hughes.
[43:04] We internet monkey.
[43:07] They're monkey. They're monkey.
[43:09] Okay, okay. We can people just write down on a piece of paper
[43:15] what they want and they don't want them to have it.
[43:18] and say, say, look at noncommunication or no electrons, so it's easy to even put them in the
[43:23] mail or bring it to that. I mean, the one thing I would say is that we're going to do a survey.
[43:30] I mean, because that's, you know, we have to be able to analyze the results. But also,
[43:33] if people just have comments and thoughts and ideas, they can be any way that we have. And it'll
[43:38] get in there. I think one of the things we were talking about with the steering committee is maybe
[43:42] There is a way of creating a part of the agenda
[43:47] and maybe if it's a community comment part
[43:49] where if people just have comments for the amount,
[43:51] you know, about it, just general comments
[43:54] or are you gonna think about making sure the clouds
[43:56] are out on Tuesday.
[43:57] We can just put that into a topical area
[44:00] and just let the committee, the steering committee,
[44:01] see that and talk about it.
[44:03] Yeah, we think it's important we deal with clouds coming out
[44:05] on Tuesday in the plan.
[44:07] Yeah, we can do that, sure.
[44:10] Next.
[44:10] So here is some of the other kind of trends and you may agree with them or not, I'm just
[44:15] putting them out there, okay?
[44:17] Demographics.
[44:18] One of the things that as planners we look at is the millennials.
[44:22] They are changing what we buy and how we live.
[44:26] They are going to be, they are the largest adult generation in the US and they are more
[44:31] educated, they are much more racially diverse and they get older before they have families.
[44:38] They really are changing how we live, and then in addition to that, we are rapidly aging.
[44:45] So we've got this big millennial population and this big older population.
[44:49] We need to think about both of those things in terms of how people get around.
[44:53] And you guys are all relatively blessed.
[44:55] You can drive.
[44:56] I can tell you my stepmom who's 86 can drive.
[45:00] I do not like it. And she's beginning to uber more and more and more and I'm thrilled. Also, our communities are getting more urban. And that doesn't mean you have to get urban. But what I think is important to think about is your Prescott Valley knocking on your door. You have the town of Prescott. And you have Phoenix, which is going to grow. So what that means is the best way I can explain it is. 20 years ago, the East Valley, which you're really familiar with, wasn't as far to say.
[45:30] the east is it is now, right, Queen Creek wasn't even anything. Well, what has that done?
[45:35] That's impacted the housing market in globe. And now globe is looking at subdivisions,
[45:41] because it's now only 35 minutes from the East Valley. So it's just something to think about.
[45:48] And as our communities get more urban and get more dense, we feel that more, the same with Cape
[45:55] the next topic is next slide mobility mobility is a huge one. So I said to these guys, you know, my
[46:06] car is 10 years old and I cannot bring myself to buy new car because technology changes so fast that I know that it's
[46:13] going to be self-driving in two years. I've just figured it out. As you know, there are self-driving cars that bring people to
[46:18] in the morning in Chandler.
[46:20] How that's going to affect our communities
[46:22] and how we live.
[46:23] You can't even imagine.
[46:26] Uber and Lyft is ubiquitous.
[46:29] I'm sure you have Uber and Lyft here.
[46:31] It means people may not need car assessments,
[46:33] which means that's going to change our development books.
[46:36] Car ownership is declining.
[46:39] Younger people are not buying getting licenses
[46:42] at the same rate as they were 10 and 20 years ago,
[46:45] which means if you want to have a community
[46:47] that's going to bring in a younger generation if you want to sell your house so that your
[46:52] children can either have the proceeds or you'll be able to sell it and put it into your retirement
[46:57] account whatever you want to do that you need to make sure someone wants to move here and the way
[47:01] they're going to move here as you have a truck community they want to live in and who's going to
[47:04] move here a millennial and what is a millennial one they want a cool hit place where they can walk
[47:09] they don't it doesn't have to be the whole community but there needs to be that place where they
[47:12] can do that and they don't want to have to drive the press kit to do it so that's something
[47:16] think about with your community. We can stay the way we are or we can begin to make small changes
[47:22] that are going to continue to keep our community marketable. People, the distance driving by people
[47:28] has decreased and that's important to think about too because your commercial right now is what
[47:34] I would call a drive by commercial but if people driving decrease, if more people stay in their
[47:41] the community, stay in the urban areas,
[47:43] you're gonna have to begin to grow your own market as well.
[47:46] So again, something to think about.
[47:48] You may disagree with me, just things to think about.
[47:51] Next one, the economy.
[47:53] That's sort of the same attached to mobility.
[47:56] You're gonna have millennials
[47:57] which are half the workforce,
[47:59] and they like to work from home or work remotely.
[48:02] So what does that mean?
[48:03] They have to have be wired.
[48:06] And you have to have good wireless communications.
[48:09] That affects your right of way,
[48:10] that affects your roadways.
[48:12] Collaboration is key to the workforce of the future.
[48:14] The reason I put that there is, you know,
[48:17] Phoenix is riddled with co-work spaces,
[48:20] but it's also, if you go to any coffee shop
[48:22] and Phoenix at any time a day,
[48:24] I would say half the seats are filled
[48:25] with folks on their computers
[48:27] and they're working.
[48:28] They are working, they're on the phone,
[48:30] they're working, they're producing product.
[48:32] So that collaborative space that you can have,
[48:35] I was reading an amagazine
[48:37] that the new workspace of the future, you don't have a desk.
[48:39] You come in with your computer and your briefcase, you find a workspace, you sit down, if you collaborate, you go to a special room and you leave.
[48:47] There is no kind of permanent place, your permanent place is your home.
[48:51] And technology and data are going to be key drivers of that. So again, it's just something to think about.
[48:59] So climate is another big one.
[49:02] This is from the EPA and NOAA and they get a little thing on Arizona and how climate change affects Arizona.
[49:08] It's no packs to creasing, there's less water, precipitation, decreased, and higher temperatures.
[49:14] And what does that really mean?
[49:15] It means we're going to have water problems.
[49:17] And I don't need to tell you this.
[49:18] We've already got them.
[49:20] Casting one day, the other community.
[49:21] I'm working in on a general plan dealing with it every single day.
[49:24] It's a driver of growth and development right now.
[49:28] So they're out of permits, and then they're compensation.
[49:31] So you just saw in the paper today, they want to start monitoring all the wells in the state
[49:35] to see what groundwater we're pulling out.
[49:39] I think that's something important to think about.
[49:41] And again, the kind of development
[49:43] that we have impacts, our climate, and impacts our water use.
[49:48] So we just need to think about that next.
[49:52] And the other thing is health, built in fire.
[49:55] This is from the urban land institute.
[49:56] Urban land institute, by the way,
[49:58] is an organization of developers.
[50:00] And I am sure that you know that developers
[50:02] do not like to spend anything extra on their projects so they don't like to put in walking
[50:07] pass, they don't like to put in parks, they don't like to put in shade and streetscapes
[50:10] because all that cost them money. However, this document basically says we need trails,
[50:16] we need places to walk, we need sidewalks. I was driving around today and there was a
[50:20] dad and there's something I like walking in the road because there's no paved shoulder.
[50:24] You know, they don't want to get mud up to their knees and it's dangerous. The road is narrow,
[50:28] it was late in the day. Things like that to think about. How do we make our community healthier,
[50:34] more walkable, more accessible? How do we provide more parks? You have some cute parks,
[50:38] but how do we get more people to them? Should we be doing things with our river? So things like that
[50:44] are to think about in terms of health. And I think that's it. So those are some of the planning
[50:49] consideration best practices, and I'm happy to answer any questions.
[50:59] Okay, we're a demographics, you know, unless we do some kind of survey, we're not
[51:03] going to know what the hell is going to happen.
[51:06] So we have Rick Merritt on our team and Rick, I love Rick, because he does our demographics.
[51:11] You're right right now, you're working, especially since you're a small community.
[51:15] You're working from 2010.
[51:16] I haven't contacted the Avapai MPO yet, and it's the Avapai, right County MPO, to see what
[51:23] they have in terms of projections.
[51:25] I'm guessing that your transportation plan
[51:27] can only go on might have done some more.
[51:29] There's American Community Survey, but Rick can do.
[51:32] A lot of Rick uses a lot of techniques,
[51:34] like he looks to comparable community growth rates.
[51:36] Sometimes, you know, communities just do this.
[51:38] Sometimes they hit a point where they go like that.
[51:40] Sometimes they go like that.
[51:42] So he can help build those,
[51:43] and we're going to rely on him to help us do that.
[51:46] It's unfortunately before the census, so we're stuck.
[51:49] Yeah, you know, let's do it.
[51:51] I suggest in doing a grammar graphic study for the area, and the council said, well, let's
[51:56] just wait for the census, so that's going to be another two years before we get it.
[52:01] I think we'll be able to get close.
[52:03] Rick is usually pretty good on the MPL, so usually pretty good.
[52:06] So I don't think we'll be totally, you know, worth the charts, we'll see.
[52:11] Ms. Collins?
[52:13] On the back in December, when we were going over, I guess there were some suggestions about some
[52:18] elements and what I remember in one of them was a housing element. I have put
[52:24] them a couple of people in the community that are, um, apparently smarter than me
[52:30] because I missed it. Um, they actually went and read the statute and, and the statute
[52:36] is a housing element consisting of standards and programs for the elimination of
[52:41] sub-standard-rolling conditions. People here have paid live comfortably and they, this is like
[52:55] a no-go zone. So the housing element typically, the elimination of sub-standard housing
[53:01] conditions, what that really has morphed into in current plans is affordability. And typically,
[53:08] what we'll do is look at housing affordability, and a lot of times, and this will be helpful if you choose to do it, you may not, but it gives you an idea of saying, you know, 60% of our community, I'll pick a number, I'm sure it's not that high,
[53:24] spending more than 60% of their income on housing and that really points out important
[53:32] things to your community. It might point out that you want to work with folks to bring in more
[53:38] affordable housing. It might say, you know, maybe we need to create other kinds of housing types
[53:45] like tiny homes where people can more easily afford it or denser communities where
[53:50] You know, developers can make more of their land value.
[53:54] I don't think you have development fees here,
[53:56] but, you know, if your community with development fees,
[53:58] you might take a look at your development fees
[54:00] and say maybe we need to consider fee waivers
[54:02] if you'll provide a certain percentage of affordable housing.
[54:06] I cannot tell you what an issue this is becoming for our state,
[54:11] and especially in an older community when people have fixed incomes,
[54:16] housing affordability is a key issue.
[54:19] It's key. So again, I'm not saying it's something you will consider in your plan, but if it's something that comes up through the public process, we would probably bring that up to you.
[54:30] We could also put that under a neighborhood stabilization revitalization element, or you could just say we're going to create an affordable housing element, or you could deal with it under land use all up to you.
[54:41] Ms. Collins?
[54:42] The thing that I noticed when I look at our zoning code as far as affordable housing goes
[54:47] as exclusionary zoning, site built, site built, site built, minimum, a loud, sorry,
[54:56] you know, you're not allowed to go low, you're not allowed to go low.
[54:58] We're going to a certain split, we're going to have a thing which is crazy.
[55:04] I like the little tiny houses.
[55:08] But the other thing too is we've got plastic valley building apartments like crazy and I've
[55:15] read all their history on that and they were like oh yeah we're going to make them affordable.
[55:20] They're luxury apartments.
[55:24] One thousand, one thousand, one thousand, one hundred and twelve dollars or something for
[55:29] six hundred or seventy.
[55:31] Where are you?
[55:31] That's not affordable.
[55:33] That's not affordable.
[55:33] I agree.
[55:33] That houses up here that you can get on an acre of it.
[55:37] Not houses.
[55:38] But, you know, small, single-wide trailers, which we have banned.
[55:43] So, you know, it was that's another problem with affordable housing.
[55:46] If we allow people to buy affordable housing, then that kind of takes care of some of that
[55:51] And one of the things a plan can do is it's obviously not going to change your code because it's not a zoning code, but it could maybe have a policy that says exam and strategies to promote affordable housing.
[56:02] So then that gives you as a council, you've adopted that formally away to say to your staff, hey, you know what you guys, let's follow through on this plan strategy.
[56:13] Start examining some strategies, get to work on it.
[56:15] And then the law also requires annually that staff come back and report to you on planned implementation.
[56:22] So at the end of the year, you might want to say, hey, where are you on that normal housing strategy?
[56:26] Well, you'll have to give your report.
[56:28] So, you know, it's just, again, it's a framework for what you want in the future of your community.
[56:38] Uh,
[56:41] no, no, no, okay.
[56:42] I'm just going to get another question.
[56:44] I've got people asking me stuff, so I promise I'd ask it.
[56:47] Lay them on me.
[56:48] Um, this has to do with, um, you know, accessibility for computers and things like that.
[56:57] And I noticed in the contract, there was, in the discussion about the contract.
[57:00] There was a lot of references to digital format, um, I am not a computer version, everything
[57:09] knows that.
[57:10] When I print out clean creeps, digital things, it's not readable.
[57:14] I can't even read it online.
[57:15] I don't know how the Queen Creek did a different approach.
[57:20] Queen Creek has a printed executive summary, and they did not want a printed plan.
[57:29] They didn't want to bear with the cost.
[57:31] However, what we can do for everything is online.
[57:34] So what we will give you, regardless, is a digit of PDF, exactly correct.
[57:40] I speak PDF, and you can get a PDF, that's fine.
[57:43] No, that's fine. We'll give you a PDF, but that's what digital means. It's just something we could put on.
[57:49] Yeah, no worries.
[57:50] No worries.
[57:51] I had one other thing.
[57:55] Some people, I did a lot of petition collecting for signatures when the election was going on three years ago.
[58:02] And I actually took page one of the index of our general plan.
[58:07] And it's got terms like circulation element and it's not straightforward English.
[58:12] I have one guy asked me where the code ring was.
[58:17] So I would like to see a plain English type.
[58:20] And if you have to call it a circulation plan, put it in parentheses.
[58:24] Like roads circulation.
[58:27] That's a great common and I really appreciate them.
[58:30] So since you have that last plan, the world has changed.
[58:34] Typically plans now group the elements and things like our community.
[58:38] That might be land use, open space and circulation.
[58:41] Our economy might be economics on housing.
[58:44] People take a lot of leeway with the elements.
[58:47] I think that this point, as long as you meet the intent of the element,
[58:51] it's good and as long as you really have a land use element,
[58:53] and a land use map, and a circulation map,
[58:56] those are kind of the key things in a plan.
[59:00] So now the new word for circulation is mobility,
[59:05] but we could just call it transportation.
[59:07] I was looking at, I remember who, but I actually saw one online that actually insisted elements of the chapters.
[59:15] And you can change it to chapters.
[59:17] A lot of, again, old school kind of moving forward.
[59:20] Right.
[59:20] Exactly right.
[59:21] So that's our goal.
[59:23] So what we would probably bring forward to at the end of this six month or eight month or whatever,
[59:27] it ends up being that this assessment process.
[59:29] When I, we bring forward the outline of the plan.
[59:32] Again, with your community steering committee looking at saying, hey, I don't understand what, you know,
[59:36] our mental sustainability means could you translate that? We'll bring you an outline that
[59:41] that community and that committee feels makes sense. You can change it anyway you want. Again,
[59:47] it's just us listening to you trying to bring forward what matters. So those are great questions
[59:51] and I really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. They did a good job. Give them a
[1:00:00] They can go to the library or they can come here and look at it. You know, reality, more people get in computers,
[1:00:10] more people are computer literate and the older people, maybe over 80, wouldn't be computer literate.
[1:00:21] But we're all computer literate. So yeah, no, I think that most people can use a computer.
[1:00:26] And the only thing I worry about with a plan on the cell phone
[1:00:29] is it's hard to see, but again, that's why we tend
[1:00:33] to try to make them more graphic.
[1:00:37] But you can always increase the size of your phone.
[1:00:39] You absolutely can.
[1:00:41] On your cell phone.
[1:00:42] Or in your computer.
[1:00:44] Anything else?
[1:00:45] Yeah.
[1:00:46] And again, those are decisions you'll make.
[1:00:48] Kind of, you know, as we get there.
[1:00:50] So those are all your decisions.
[1:00:52] How do most of them stick there?
[1:00:54] You're into me.
[1:00:55] different processes. Good year put out a call for interest and they interviewed.
[1:01:02] Queen Creek
[1:01:03] did not have one. We just went to the Planning Commission every month. Casa Grande had one
[1:01:09] that was appointed by the Council and the mayor. They didn't interview. They just appointed
[1:01:12] to ask people. And there is about the same with the good years. It was about 25 people but
[1:01:18] included the tribes, it includes federal agencies,
[1:01:21] it includes not-for-profits, let's see,
[1:01:25] who else has stepped out so many.
[1:01:27] Eegers, we just dealt with the planning commission,
[1:01:31] trying to go back.
[1:01:34] We'll head city, I think we dealt with a subcommittee, maybe.
[1:01:39] It's across the board.
[1:01:44] Yeah.
[1:01:44] Don't communities don't even have them.
[1:01:46] Yeah,
[1:01:55] okay, any other questions?
[1:02:00] Thank you.
[1:02:01] Good one question. Yeah, Mr. Mortimer. Thank you.
[1:02:06] No, sorry. No, you're fine. You're fine.
[1:02:08] Yeah, you get it. Get up to the court. Yeah.
[1:02:11] So I have two questions.
[1:02:14] Yeah.
[1:02:15] For the record.
[1:02:16] Okay.
[1:02:17] No problem. Gary Mortimer, Mortimer Farms.
[1:02:20] And I,
[1:02:22] Residential Pike out.
[1:02:24] So one, I'll ask both questions and I'll set that down.
[1:02:27] So, the one an opportunity to sit down with a mayor of another town, and I don't know how this can come up in the meeting,
[1:02:38] but they were saying a lot of the residents were opposed to a Walmart or a big box going into their town, and they said,
[1:02:45] Okay, well, what if we move the box to the edge of town,
[1:02:51] does that impact you?
[1:02:52] And then all of a sudden, the whole attitude changed
[1:02:55] because they were like, okay, it's not right.
[1:02:58] Not right in my backyard.
[1:03:01] Press kit would be a good example.
[1:03:02] They had the big boxes are kind of out of the downtown area.
[1:03:07] So that would be a good example.
[1:03:09] So I don't know how that is addressed in this whole planning.
[1:03:12] And then the second thing is, is how do we align
[1:03:17] we come in here and whoever's running this and say,
[1:03:22] okay, we want, you know, we want multifamily,
[1:03:25] we want subdivisions, we want, you know,
[1:03:27] this growth in our area, and how do we align
[1:03:32] the availability of water that was one of your topics?
[1:03:37] I mean, we can have all these plans and say, you know,
[1:03:39] we've got this area, we've got this area,
[1:03:42] this area to do these subdivisions or bigger developments, but if we don't have a water to
[1:03:49] do it, then it can be in the plan, but it will never come to fruition because we don't have
[1:03:55] the availability of water. So those are my two questions. Thank you.
[1:03:59] Those are great questions. Thank you. I'll start with the water one first and all the back to Walmart
[1:04:03] research works. So the state statute requires not for you because you're not big enough, but it does
[1:04:09] have the option for you to have a water element where you have to identify how you're going to
[1:04:13] provide supplies of water for the development identified in the plant. And so when we did
[1:04:21] we did Gilbert they went and bought water from the grid and they put it in the plant,
[1:04:26] we're going to go buy water from the grid. But I think what's so great that you brought up is
[1:04:31] yeah, how are we going to do that? Passagrande basically is thinking you know maybe we're going to
[1:04:37] because of the way the law works is you don't need a certificate of a short supply if it's
[1:04:42] not a subdivision, right?
[1:04:44] So you could build an apartment complex, you don't need a certificate, so you can build and
[1:04:48] you have water, so they're promoting in, so that's how they want to handle growth.
[1:04:53] They haven't solved the problem in another way.
[1:04:56] So I think for you guys, and I guess the water is obviously an issue, that's I think part
[1:05:03] the discussion as we move forward in the plan. For the assessment process, we might look at
[1:05:08] your current plan and say, hey, does your plan really think about water? And so when we move
[1:05:14] that forward, we'll say, you know, here's a gap in your current plan. It's not thinking about water.
[1:05:18] People have identified this as an issue. This is something you want to deal with and put in your
[1:05:22] plan in the future. And again, it's not a regulation that you have to do it, but it can outline options
[1:05:29] for you to look at. So that's how it align. The second question is Walmart. So plan
[1:05:38] to policy. And so for example, let's say you had two commercial way to be
[1:05:44] category. And again, this is in the plan part. We're not in the assessment
[1:05:48] part now. This is when you're doing your plan. And this is a kid creek actually
[1:05:53] did this in their plan. Almost identical story. You know, right on a kid creek road is
[1:05:58] quarter of Kate Creek and Walmart is a money tree, right?
[1:06:03] I mean, anybody would be blunt for Walmart, especially in
[1:06:06] Kate Creek Road.
[1:06:08] And what Kate Creek decided to do is they said,
[1:06:11] within our town, off Kate Creek Road,
[1:06:13] this is the complexion of the commercial we want.
[1:06:16] It can't be bigger than this many square feet.
[1:06:18] It can't be taller than this.
[1:06:20] It can't have parking lots that are larger than XYZ.
[1:06:23] But in this little area of our town, we think
[1:06:26] that kind of stuff is a great idea.
[1:06:28] And so that's the guidance that the plan gives to zoning.
[1:06:32] So now if you want to look at your plan and someone comes in with a Walmart,
[1:06:35] let's say, right here, you may or may not like it.
[1:06:38] Like any fancy, you know?
[1:06:39] Our plan doesn't really say this is the kind of development we want.
[1:06:43] But let's say it's 10 years in the future and you think, hey, this is great development.
[1:06:46] You could approve it anyway.
[1:06:47] It's within the plan.
[1:06:49] But the policies can give you some decision making guidance.
[1:06:51] So that's how that happened.
[1:06:53] Thank you for that.
[1:06:54] Sure.
[1:06:55] Okay Miss Collins.
[1:06:56] We do have a water element, services element.
[1:07:01] We've got a math in there that shows the water providers to private companies.
[1:07:07] It has some zero geographic information, a row of names or anything like that.
[1:07:13] And since then, I have also found out that it might have gotten
[1:07:16] the biggest one might have gotten bigger with the area services.
[1:07:20] So that's one thing that I've been asked by some people that have actually been
[1:07:24] They look at these things because they're trying to figure out a head of time what it means to them, and it's like they're saying where is this thing?
[1:07:32] And it's like, oh, yeah, I think I know where the boundaries are now, and so somebody tells me it grew
[1:07:37] So I just want to make sure that does get updated and the other thing I had is that I want to make sure we do not overlook this we actually do have
[1:07:46] you mentioned the store stuff. We actually do have a local historic area map. It's on the link
[1:07:53] on that margin on the website and if you click on maps, that's one of the maps that's on there.
[1:08:03] It's a local historic area. It's not a formal district. It's not got all of the federalized rules
[1:08:10] and you can't change to this. You have to paint it that in a sort of thing. It's more of a
[1:08:16] thing that says that we've got historically valuable things that happened here and we've
[1:08:23] got buildings that mattered to us. And I just want, I don't know where we would put it.
[1:08:27] Oh, you could put it in the plan as a historic element with policies that guide how you want
[1:08:31] to put that area. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to over look at it.
[1:08:37] So I won't be.
[1:08:40] All right. Any other questions? Very enough. We thank you for your time. Thank you.
[1:08:47] I'm
[1:08:57] going to go ahead and I'm 4B,
[1:09:01] which I'm about updating the land use element for developing
[1:09:04] a south-to-toe humble area plan prior to the general planning of the day due to the risk
[1:09:12] of losing the opportunity of attracting commercial users in the area to the south-to-third
[1:09:17] street by waiting for the general plan update in this council.
[1:09:21] Well, if our general plan is going to take three years because of funding, how will we
[1:09:27] I just want to get it out there so that I was under the impression that we weren't having
[1:09:33] any buddy looking up here for new commercial because there's like three long works and it's like
[1:09:39] they sucked all the air out sort of thing. Now we've got Winco in an article in the paper looking
[1:09:45] so maybe there's other people looking but I just wanted people to look at that and think about it
[1:09:51] as a possibility, it may be look at a set of uses
[1:09:57] that we could put into a boundary called an area plan
[1:10:00] after we talked to the owners,
[1:10:02] and maybe into some interaction with residents
[1:10:04] if we ever get that far through.
[1:10:06] So that we might have some kind of a policy statement
[1:10:09] in place, so yeah, we are open to it eventually.
[1:10:14] And maybe somebody would see that, they would look at it.
[1:10:18] And what to do that?
[1:10:21] Well, any property owner can come to the council with the, uh, an amendment to the general plan.
[1:10:28] And the, the town can not even spend the time to do it if it's not already indicated.
[1:10:33] It's an old thing.
[1:10:35] We have a bad reputation.
[1:10:37] Our town does.
[1:10:38] Uh, tell me.
[1:10:39] I'm not walking progress.
[1:10:41] I'm trying to get around some of that.
[1:10:43] Well, he can't for his own property.
[1:10:45] Not a rezoning.
[1:10:48] It's a policy state.
[1:10:50] It's a policy state.
[1:10:51] if I have a policy statement, let's say you're open to anything is open to
[1:10:57] rezoning by the orange, by the property, if it's
[1:11:06] okay, the owner may not want to spend
[1:11:10] the money to do it and go through it with the history of the town and the way the town is done with zoning.
[1:11:17] So if we make a policy, that's still not an ordinance that's still not a rezoning.
[1:11:23] No, but it is a policy that states that the town is interested in exploring options for
[1:11:31] an area that is currently a long, freeway that is so site-ville-only residential 70,000
[1:11:38] square foot lots. There's about 200 acres down there, five or six lots,
[1:11:49] five or six
[1:11:53] to attract some money in this town because we need money, PDQ and not in three years.
[1:12:02] If you've got a super fun site and we've got road problems, but I just wanted to bring it up
[1:12:08] so people could consider it and be open minded about the possibilities that it might be worth
[1:12:13] for suing at some point.
[1:12:17] It's not just the 87 acres that one person has. I've got some
[1:12:25] You know, you should have put them in a thing.
[1:12:28] My question was down in the children's body.
[1:12:36] One break.
[1:12:41] It's five or six probably five years.
[1:12:46] Yeah, there you go.
[1:12:48] It's one.
[1:12:54] It's just something that if we can get ourselves ahead of the game a little bit.
[1:12:59] Those missed a parcel number?
[1:13:01] No.
[1:13:02] I
[1:13:09] had that U.L.I. asked him to put that U.L.I. stuff in everybody's folders because it's got a lot of good information finding information in it.
[1:13:20] About two minutes, potential minutes.
[1:13:23] It's all the pieces of South of Third Street East of 69.
[1:13:32] Well that's the incoming, that's the end-down lane.
[1:13:35] There's that always people driving by our town, and if we say we're open to a grocery store,
[1:13:42] or are these resources or something maybe that would help us rebuild our downtown areas we get.
[1:13:50] If people are looking for investors, they'll say, well, there's the possibility there could be some logic in there.
[1:13:57] The venture.
[1:14:00] It would be south of the American Legion.
[1:14:05] But just be, yeah, actually, that's not even on the highway that one piece is not on the highway.
[1:14:10] I think it's got access.
[1:14:12] If you do a shared access thing, as an area event.
[1:14:19] Yeah.
[1:14:22] Peace on the corner on third, third, third street,
[1:14:25] roll black in your highway.
[1:14:28] Yeah, it's accessible.
[1:14:31] We've got a very large T-shaped piece of right-of-way down there that is on third to
[1:14:38] be terminating end-of-third-street work such as the highway.
[1:14:44] Well basically 86 acres.
[1:14:48] Only the two parcels or other ones down there that if I'm looking at maybe possibly asking
[1:14:55] of people are interested in doing something because there's other parcels.
[1:15:00] This, that are also own commercial. This, there a one is, it's got access to the other road up there, but if you're doing an area finding you're doing shared access, it's not like you have to be right on the freeway.
[1:15:13] It would be, um, the one here, but some parcel numbers on there and what's happening.
[1:15:23] And, can't write that small.
[1:15:27] I think she's that small.
[1:15:29] Pursals, numbers coming up.
[1:15:32] Pursal labels.
[1:15:40] So, all of that should have been provided in this cup.
[1:15:46] They print out that small, that size map.
[1:15:48] But you can request when you do a car, if you meet back up, you don't have a printer, whatever, you can send that to town hall, ask them to send that with your car.
[1:16:00] Come here.
[1:16:01] Yes.
[1:16:02] This went.
[1:16:03] I have a real problem here.
[1:16:05] This comes in the fact that you've got no specific.
[1:16:08] You've got no car, no numbers.
[1:16:10] You've attached a newspaper article that has to do with Prescott Valley, which I could give a wrap,
[1:16:16] But as far as what Prescott Valley is doing,
[1:16:21] you've failed to specify what parcels in question.
[1:16:25] And when we talk about water, how do you know this?
[1:16:28] I mean, none of this has been addressed in this car.
[1:16:34] Your car doesn't clarify, you know.
[1:16:37] We need your car's clarifying so that we
[1:16:40] have an opportunity to research and study well before meeting.
[1:16:44] And so I really, otherwise it just takes up so much time.
[1:16:50] You really need to work on improving your car submission.
[1:16:56] I expect, I would expect, if somebody put a car in,
[1:17:00] I'll be doing some of my own research.
[1:17:01] It wasn't on that.
[1:17:02] Not if you don't know where it's at.
[1:17:04] I'm sorry.
[1:17:05] I mean, just, you've given it so generic.
[1:17:07] It's just so generic.
[1:17:10] You've got to be sensitive.
[1:17:11] I'll sit down.
[1:17:12] We don't know that.
[1:17:13] I mean, it doesn't say that on here.
[1:17:15] I'm sorry.
[1:17:16] Forums?
[1:17:22] South.
[1:17:22] Do you humble the area?
[1:17:25] Of course.
[1:17:26] That's our 69.
[1:17:28] That's it.
[1:17:29] So it's just not specific enough.
[1:17:31] You can't do enough research.
[1:17:32] So we need specifics on this.
[1:17:34] I don't even think we should be discussing it.
[1:17:38] It's study sessions are just for new ideas as far as I remember.
[1:17:42] If you put a car in, you need to be specific.
[1:17:45] I'm not interested in what PV is doing.
[1:17:47] I don't know,
[1:17:53] it's so so on the agenda item that attract commercial users in the area to the South of this street.
[1:18:03] Okay.
[1:18:03] South of this street, there's not much, you know, you got state land, you can't deal with state land.
[1:18:08] I don't want to deal with state land.
[1:18:10] Well, you can't deal with state land until state does it.
[1:18:14] You can buy the state land if you want to.
[1:18:17] Well, I just thought it would be interesting if people would know that there's something
[1:18:24] going on.
[1:18:31] I have the owner of the parcel each there, or well, I can't read the parcel under
[1:18:38] up there.
[1:18:39] The parcel each?
[1:18:41] That's right there at Third Street in the highway.
[1:18:44] Yeah.
[1:18:45] That's one.
[1:18:45] Mr. Lacy is here, and he owns that.
[1:18:49] Mr. Lacy.
[1:18:51] I can't even see that.
[1:18:53] I can't see that.
[1:18:54] Yeah.
[1:18:55] Answer any questions about it.
[1:18:57] I could also point out the history of how that ended up with nothing but residential
[1:19:05] zoning when everything else around is commercial.
[1:19:10] So let's see.
[1:19:12] Let me first let me show you what
[1:19:19] this and this and this and then there's another little piece
[1:19:24] up there, that's 87 years there.
[1:19:30] And it's all zones, 7,000, 7,000, it's perfect for the initial.
[1:19:37] Everything around it is commercial.
[1:19:40] The north side of the third street, this is down in here.
[1:19:45] This was not zoned commercial in the original general plan
[1:19:50] because a group out of San Jose came to town,
[1:19:54] put that into escrow for me,
[1:19:57] and they tried to do kind of a ridiculous plan,
[1:20:00] which I have a copy of, I could show you.
[1:20:02] That's wall back out of Scott Still designed it,
[1:20:06] and it was for an outlet mall,
[1:20:07] and all kinds of things that the demographics didn't work
[1:20:10] for our area.
[1:20:13] And the people that were in control of the town
[1:20:15] at that time were really kind of insulted by this.
[1:20:18] And as a result, I ended up with residential zoning for all of this and one of the things I'd like to ask the council to consider is in the is a proposed use for that property would include some commercial and some community core.
[1:20:35] It's one of the ideal sites for a grocery store.
[1:20:40] Back in 2016, there was a lot of discussions
[1:20:44] with Croger about doing a grocery store there.
[1:20:48] They were doing six in the valley at that time,
[1:20:52] and Amazon came in and bought whole foods and scared
[1:20:55] all these big grocery store people.
[1:21:00] That site that Safeway has just to the east
[1:21:03] of the junior high as too close so they can't have a liquor license.
[1:21:07] There's not that many places really along 69 to site a grocery store.
[1:21:14] So one of the things I'm hoping the council will consider in the new general plan is to change that.
[1:21:21] I right now can't afford to go in and pay for the amendment.
[1:21:24] Our amendment process is expensive and complicated.
[1:21:29] And it takes a long time, but I'm not saying we should change that, but when council comes in to consider their proposed uses along 69, I hope they will allow that as one of the potential proposed uses.
[1:21:45] There's sites, I have people calling quite a bit about trying to do RV parks, Councilmember
[1:21:54] McBrady at one time talking about that in that.
[1:21:59] There's a lot of different things we could do there that would really generate some tax revenue
[1:22:06] and not offend the sensibilities of the town.
[1:22:09] I think. I'm a native here, so I've been here for a long time, and I know a little bit
[1:22:15] about how everything is developed in that sort of thing. And I just hope that Council will
[1:22:22] consider a proposed use for that, since it's surrounded by commercial that would include
[1:22:27] some commercial. And then I'll be glad to answer any questions about how this all happened.
[1:22:34] I know none of these current council members were here, including you were watching it, but
[1:22:42] yeah, at the time it was a real no-growth regime. Nobody cared about whether school buses could
[1:22:51] drop kids off or pick them up. It was like we just want this the way we want it and we don't care
[1:22:56] about anybody else. Young families can move out. And that's too bad because this is a great
[1:23:03] area and I'd like to see, you know, people grew up here have a chance to make a living here.
[1:23:11] So, I don't want to overstate my welcome, but if you have any questions, I'd be glad to answer.
[1:23:16] Yeah, I can understand across the street. It's all in industrial and then you got
[1:23:21] to its treatment plant that JW is put in, they're, you know, on your side of the highway
[1:23:28] and then you get to Legion. So, you know, there's no reason, you know, I don't think it should
[1:23:33] be that. Yeah, and then down across from that square 40, you see the, absolutely square 40,
[1:23:41] there's, yeah. What is that? It's an auction house. It used to be a steak house or ever.
[1:23:49] Anyway,
[1:23:49] I just think it would make sense for all of us to do that in about water.
[1:23:55] I think that my North East corner up there is in the Humble Water Company franchise area,
[1:24:02] which could be extended into this whole area.
[1:24:05] Of course, someone, either myself or, you know, a future user would have to put in a well,
[1:24:11] provide them and add that to their system.
[1:24:14] Or I guess they could just keep their, you know, run their own small water company there.
[1:24:18] But, you know, if you have less than 300 subscribers
[1:24:21] who doesn't make any sense to have a water company,
[1:24:24] so that's probably the way that would go.
[1:24:27] This way.
[1:24:28] Is it Mr. Lacy?
[1:24:30] Yes, man.
[1:24:30] Mr. Lacy, my understanding is that you are interested
[1:24:34] in changing the zoning and some of the portions of this.
[1:24:40] For right now, I'm not trying to change anything.
[1:24:43] It's actually, you know, zone-daggered cultural.
[1:24:46] I'm not trying to changing that.
[1:24:48] I just want to change the proposed usage in the general plan.
[1:24:52] At the time that I went through five different levels of discussions with Famiha Shizu,
[1:24:57] who's the, at that time was a vice president for real estate, as last name was Ha Shizu's.
[1:25:03] Anyway, he was vice president for real estate with Crowder, and we got to a certain point
[1:25:09] where he sent someone up here, one of his people, to see what the, you know, what the feeling
[1:25:17] would be in the town about him trying to do something there and he got really, you know,
[1:25:22] they were basically given a real definitive, no, we're not going to, you know, we don't
[1:25:28] want that, we're not looking for any kind of growth here, we don't want to grow some store,
[1:25:33] we don't, you know, that was the sentiment in the council at that time. Things are started
[1:25:37] to change a little bit now and he's no longer there, that's been probably 12, 15 years ago.
[1:25:45] You know, I talked to Yelp I college, and I asked him to talk to Cobbers, and Cobbers said they don't want to develop any more of new stores in the area whatsoever.
[1:25:59] They're scared.
[1:26:00] But that's starting to change now.
[1:26:02] They just opened a new store in Phoenix.
[1:26:04] And they're starting to look.
[1:26:06] And I know Safeway still has some ideas that they, you know, that's going to evolve.
[1:26:11] But if we don't do something now, we're going to run into the same tractor supply looked at that corner.
[1:26:16] They wanted to do something there.
[1:26:20] And, you know, the people at the time said, no.
[1:26:23] Exactly.
[1:26:26] Thank you, again.
[1:26:28] Mr. Lacy, I worked with the COVID first several many years in my office in the corporate department of office downtown.
[1:26:36] It was located within the planning and building department for them and one of the things that they take into consideration is the population
[1:26:47] There are demographics and we don't have a whole lot of that.
[1:26:50] We got to demographic because if we take in order to say
[1:26:53] We want mayor.
[1:26:54] Yeah.
[1:26:54] I'm sorry.
[1:26:55] Thank you.
[1:26:57] One of the things is that they've reasoned that they picked a higher population.
[1:27:02] because that's just like the best foods they go in, they do survey, they see how many, they
[1:27:08] know and they have a guaranteed they're going to have X number shoppers per day per month or
[1:27:13] year before they lay a blade on the ground. Now they may purchase some ground in anticipation.
[1:27:21] But before they put a spade on the ground, they know exactly what they're going to have.
[1:27:26] I can understand where you would like to see something in the general plan and I can't
[1:27:31] but agree I think with that amount of acreage I think that's a really good idea to rush the
[1:27:38] process. I think it should have been done in the original general plan. And that may have been
[1:27:42] there was a little punishment there because of what this group from San Jose had proposed for the,
[1:27:48] you know. Well, yeah, first we weren't involved in any of that at that time so we can't
[1:27:53] speak on that. I always hate to think that somebody would intentionally do that. Well, we actually
[1:27:59] higher than we thought.
[1:28:02] Yeah, we actually hired the gentleman who had been, he would been the managing engineer for
[1:28:08] a will-down, okay?
[1:28:10] He left will-down, started his own firm out in a good-year surprise of work, and he had hired
[1:28:17] someone who was a recent graduate from ASU, and she did most of the work on our current
[1:28:23] general plan.
[1:28:24] And it was really the first project like that that she had done and
[1:28:32] One of the things is that you are in luck is we are in the process of doing the job well I agree
[1:28:38] Okay, so the 10 years is over. You're going that's really why I'm here right and you would like to have the steering committee certainly be considering that
[1:28:49] Yes, I think to try to rush the process and that's kind of what I was getting from this
[1:28:54] Collins car here is that three years is going to be too long that I don't we don't know how long
[1:29:00] it's going to take but sure a lot shorter than 10 years and government does move very slow
[1:29:08] unfortunately but we can still not moving at all right now but it looks like that may change.
[1:29:14] Well we're hoping yes but we can see some progress in this for future use
[1:29:19] But you know, since you work for Kroger,
[1:29:23] Aldi and some of those other companies are moving in to this end to Arizona.
[1:29:27] There's a chance we might get something like that. I don't know, but if we don't,
[1:29:31] if they look at it and they don't see in, even in our general plan, one of the proposed uses,
[1:29:37] is what we're talking about. They don't waste time with it. That's the truth.
[1:29:41] It's interesting, it's infrastructure, your water, your road system, and all of this is greatly important to these large companies.
[1:29:50] Oh yeah.
[1:29:50] Where they're going to come in and put in a big big building.
[1:29:54] Well, and they're going to want 20 acres.
[1:29:56] There's you probably know, you know, you got to have 20 acres.
[1:30:08] I'm not really looking for a strip mall if you want another truth. I'd like to do something that's going to be more in line with what do we humble is, since I'm a native of this area, born and raised in this area.
[1:30:21] Well, I'll tell you I'm a native of Arizona, and seldom do I see just a singular grocery store.
[1:30:28] No, we won't be so like that.
[1:30:30] You're going to see some little side buildings and differences.
[1:30:32] Oh, there will be all kinds of stuff.
[1:30:34] And all of that is possible.
[1:30:37] As long as we can do it at the same point, we're developing this general plan.
[1:30:42] So there's a general outlook is there.
[1:30:45] We can see it as a whole.
[1:30:46] But what I hate to see is something to rush into this, start immediately changing things
[1:30:53] and we're trying to play catch up.
[1:30:55] I don't think that's...
[1:30:56] But we've been, the mayor have not been talking about this for 10 years.
[1:31:03] This isn't something that we're rushing into, and I've actually talked to Council Member Hughes,
[1:31:10] and we've been discussing this for quite some time, because there are, where each time
[1:31:14] these people would code to me and say, hey, what can I do here? Then I would come talk to
[1:31:21] them here and we would just hit a roadblock, not with him, but with other council members,
[1:31:27] it didn't want to see anything done there. Well, I don't have a problem myself. I think something
[1:31:32] is done, but I want it done in the right order. Well, I agree with you. Yeah, as long as it's done
[1:31:37] in the correct order, I have no problem with it. And that's all I'm asking, is it the council
[1:31:44] consider giving me a proposed use in the new general plan. Now, if somebody comes
[1:31:49] before that's all implemented and stuff and, you know, has something that sounds like
[1:31:55] it's something I should present to the council or maybe they want to then I'll come back
[1:32:01] but I'm not trying to, you know, say, hey, let's do this right now. I'm just saying that in
[1:32:06] future, let's utilize that to its highest and best use for our community. That's really what I'm
[1:32:13] looking at. Well, and I agree. Whatever that is, I'm not sure. I mean, we're right there right now,
[1:32:19] and it's only going to be a little bit longer wait for you while this is all worked in. I just,
[1:32:24] the way this carphus reading, which is confusing, it looks like it was going to be something that was
[1:32:29] the rush situation, nobody wants to wait three years, etc. I mean the parcel numbers weren't
[1:32:38] on here, we had no way to research you up.
[1:32:40] And I haven't even had...
[1:32:41] I'm not trying to hold them that all close to the best of it that way.
[1:32:44] No.
[1:32:49] I haven't had a chance to talk to Council Member Collins about this.
[1:32:54] I wasn't privy to any of this, I just noticed that you're talking about the land self
[1:32:59] of third string since I owned that and I thought well, maybe I should come and try to speak
[1:33:04] to Council.
[1:33:05] If anybody has any questions about this, you know, I'm here, I'm glad to answer them.
[1:33:12] It's called?
[1:33:12] Yeah, I don't want to even think I know you.
[1:33:17] I've never met you before, so.
[1:33:18] I'm just looking at what their shirt falls are on this and we've got sales tax, what's
[1:33:30] 690, or something like that.
[1:33:31] It's a traditional amount of sales tax money we got.
[1:33:36] About 490 on the sales, the state-shared revenue increases that through sales tax.
[1:33:43] But our sales tax.
[1:33:44] I see only thing I'm in a hurry about is we need to get some money coming in here.
[1:33:50] And if we can nudge the horse forward by saying we're open to the options.
[1:33:56] that's all I was trying to put forward. I think anything along the highway that
[1:34:03] wants to be commercial, of some sort, or level because we need the money.
[1:34:09] I'm open to that as well and you got Mr. Mortimer here. He may be open to
[1:34:15] ceasing, development on some his property down the road too. Anyway, that's all I
[1:34:25] I can't afford to go through the amendment process the time and the money that's involved in that because of the way our original general plan was written is prohibitive.
[1:34:38] Anyway, that's my position on all this.
[1:34:42] I'm available near no one knows how to reach me any time.
[1:34:48] Yeah.
[1:34:49] Yeah.
[1:34:50] Oh, I don't know.
[1:34:56] Well, thanks for giving me a chance to...
[1:34:58] Have you considered City?
[1:35:02] Sir, I'll be glad to be honest with you.
[1:35:04] Sir, what do you mean?
[1:35:05] Oh, you know, it doesn't.
[1:35:07] Well, I'm a resident, you have a by county,
[1:35:09] but I don't live in any particular township or city.
[1:35:17] Yes, we do.
[1:35:19] So yeah, I'll be glad to be part of a steering committee.
[1:35:24] I've been involved in all kinds of development.
[1:35:29] So anyway.
[1:35:31] Thanks a lot folks.
[1:35:33] Thank you sir.
[1:35:34] Thank you.
[1:35:35] I don't have any of you here.
[1:35:37] We could stop in the office.
[1:35:39] I don't have any of you here.
[1:35:40] I have a couple of quick comments and a question.
[1:35:43] Jerry Mortimer.
[1:35:45] So, going to what Council person went said, if a grocery store wants to come in here, and the demographics are here,
[1:35:58] hey, to me there's nothing stopping them to approach you the landowner or the staff and say, you know, we want to put a,
[1:36:12] you know,
[1:36:14] free world, they can, that the property's not zoned, they could talk to the town and say,
[1:36:19] what the process do we need to go through? So there's nothing, there's not a roadblock
[1:36:23] there. And I, and I know you have a problem with this car, but I, I mean, the first, the first
[1:36:30] sentence says it all. I mean, discuss the potential of the land use element.
[1:36:38] Okay, so it's, it's,
[1:36:40] me, it just kind of gives staff a little bit of direction to say, you know, if Walmart comes
[1:36:50] along and says, you know, we really want to come to do a humble, you have property available.
[1:36:56] And we might not have anything specifically zone for that at the moment, but we have, we
[1:37:01] have some options.
[1:37:01] So it's not just a, no, we don't have anything that will fit your store in this town.
[1:37:06] And I think that's kind of what Councilman Collins was saying is let's have an open mind and say,
[1:37:15] you know what we're welcoming of you, and we can do everything we can to accommodate you instead of just saying,
[1:37:22] no, sorry, we don't have anything that will fit.
[1:37:25] And I think within the whole area, and I'm not even talking specifically about Mr. Lacy's property,
[1:37:30] Just as a general area, it's like, you know, if somebody wants to come in and build something that's gonna help our town, you know, it's like, yeah, I mean, the first answer needs to be yes.
[1:37:41] Not, I don't think so, or, you know, they've eating the door down trying to get a commercial site in this town right now. I don't know the answer of that.
[1:37:50] No.
[1:37:51] But if they do, then staff has direction how to answer that question and say, yeah, we, you know, we're more than willing to talk to you about it.
[1:37:59] That's why Presby Valley, I mean, I don't care if you wanted to put, I won't even say
[1:38:04] some of the thing that you can think of.
[1:38:05] I mean, you put whatever you want up there, and they'd be like,
[1:38:08] roll the red carpet out, get the newspaper, and let's get the mayor and start taking pictures.
[1:38:12] I mean, but we need to have that same kind of attitude here.
[1:38:15] Yeah, when he'll come to the commercial.
[1:38:18] Oh, what's it on right now?
[1:38:20] I got a red carpet.
[1:38:21] I loan it to you.
[1:38:22] Okay, so that's all I had.
[1:38:23] And I think you're correct, and you're correct, and I don't want to pick
[1:38:29] but it's just it needs to they need direction and but if there was if there was a need and a
[1:38:35] want we just need to be in a position to to be there. Thank you.
[1:38:39] These directions too Mr. Marimer we need to know in order as a council individually in order
[1:38:45] to study ahead of time so that we can discuss and intelligently rather than just have a generic
[1:38:51] general thing we just need to have something there that we can look at.
[1:38:57] now Mr. Lacy stood up and I can see that.
[1:39:01] I don't think it, it's really, it doesn't, it doesn't pinpoint just his property.
[1:39:07] I mean, there's a lot of other properties in the town that this could happen.
[1:39:10] It doesn't have to be, I mean, that's a prime piece of property that would work,
[1:39:15] but there's other properties that would, too.
[1:39:17] Yes.
[1:39:17] And I think that's something that just needs to be identified as a staff knows, okay, this.
[1:39:22] And if they're there, we just need to know about that.
[1:39:23] We have opportunity.
[1:39:25] We just need to know about that, I'm very.
[1:39:27] Thank you.
[1:39:28] Thank you.
[1:39:29] Appreciate it.
[1:39:30] Okay.
[1:39:31] All right.
[1:39:32] Let's move on.
[1:39:34] Discussion relating to the process for establishing the ordinance and obtain council feedback
[1:39:40] on the provisions of the proposed council policy to go in the developing text amendments
[1:39:46] to the zoning ordinances and other ordinances.
[1:39:50] I turn this in because we need a process for doing this.
[1:39:55] The way we've been doing it, it's not working by us coming in and wanting to change it.
[1:40:02] The Nordminton, then we send it to B&Z and then it comes back to us and goes back to B&Z.
[1:40:10] So, you know, the whole idea, I guess, is to change that and on the back, it's, you know,
[1:40:18] brings in a car, identify an issue of area, staff places a car from a huge area of council meeting,
[1:40:26] along with staff organizations who are not pursuing graphing a text amendment to the zoning ordinance.
[1:40:32] In compliance with town code 30, past 08-1, no more than one hour of what we spent in preparation in the initial recommendation.
[1:40:41] Council votes to either refer to matters to staff, review the proposal and prepare a text
[1:40:47] amendment to the zoning ordinance or to take no action developing in ordinance.
[1:40:53] It's moving forward by the Council staff, regardless of text amendment to the zoning ordinance
[1:41:00] and jointly adverses, advertisers that post for public hearing, both themes and council meetings.
[1:41:06] Pinsy holds a public hearing and makes report to Council on the Ordnance, Possible Recommending No Modification.
[1:41:15] Council holds a public hearing and the Ordnance can certainly report from Pinsy and making modifications in either a cruise of a nice text to the zone.
[1:41:27] Well, a coin above and specific to the zoning amendment, the council is a men and staff
[1:41:32] and mostly, a modified according to the other times, ordinance and bring back the policy
[1:41:38] for council's consideration.
[1:41:41] So I think this is something we need to do instead of what we've been doing, it's taken
[1:41:45] too much time and too much staff time, too much council time, and everything else, so
[1:41:52] you want to get a better process than the process that we have now.
[1:41:58] The top portion of that is as far as under the background is kind of how it's been going
[1:42:03] and it's definitely taken a lot longer than it should because we keep, you guys send it to them,
[1:42:08] they bring it back and we've caught ourselves missing a step before we actually did it.
[1:42:16] can get it done and have it fall back because of the mountain.
[1:42:19] When the one has it too, try to create that.
[1:42:22] Exactly, you know, we would stab it like to put together a policy and we could make it if you know if you just want to do the zoning or if you're minimal to having a cover a few the other areas just in the policy standpoint to bring back.
[1:42:40] I think that would be good. So we all have an outline to follow and we can all follow the same outline.
[1:42:48] I think it would be very good.
[1:42:55] Probably we'll be next month.
[1:42:58] In fact, I think that like to follow, I don't know how manage your hands.
[1:43:03] Ideas still could include a few other processes in some of the things.
[1:43:09] I mean, it's just getting ridiculous.
[1:43:11] We've got things going back and forth.
[1:43:13] And the language is not there and we're wasting way too much time.
[1:43:23] Yeah, I'd like to say, well, we'll set it up using the zoning code of amendments as the baseline
[1:43:30] and then we can do a couple of others, there would be similar, outline for a couple of the other things.
[1:43:39] Mr. Matik is one of the, Mr. Matik's is the one I actually pointed that out and we put that in there.
[1:43:45] That's why he is so good.
[1:43:47] I know. I, I, I, it's why we like to come out.
[1:43:50] Hey, we take right here.
[1:43:52] And Monday, all day and Monday.
[1:43:55] Yeah, we're going to give you both, get Monday up here.
[1:43:57] Get Monday, sure.
[1:43:58] Yeah, he, he pointed that out if you're amenable to it, we would set it up accordingly.
[1:44:04] So, okay.
[1:44:05] All right, Jim.
[1:44:06] We're everything, Jim.
[1:44:07] Excellent.
[1:44:08] Sounds good.
[1:44:08] Okay, I like it.
[1:44:13] You okay, Ms. Collins?
[1:44:14] Yeah, I'm just not seeing good news.
[1:44:18] All right.
[1:44:19] The next item on the agenda is to adjourn.
[1:44:23] Being is adjourned.
[1:44:24] Thank you all for coming.
[1:44:26] Appreciate it.
[1:44:27] Oh, okay.
[1:44:29] Do you want to hear of this?
[1:44:31] How you doing?
[1:44:33] Good evening, everyone.
[1:44:35] Good evening.
[1:44:35] Thank you.
[1:44:36] Thank you.