e e
hey Andy can you hear us just doing a
check uh oh he looks froz he looks
Frozen to me give it a
hey Andy just doing an audio check can
you hear us okay
oh we can't hear
him hey Andy can you say something one
more time you can hear
us so have you got can't hear you all
right hang on one sec
hey Andy it's Stacy again just doing
home
it's plugged in though it should have
been picking up yeah it should
yeah e
conversation I remember having with my
uh my friend who owned the trash company
city of Wilmington operated it
internally their own so Union contract
they didn't pick up on rainy days below
45 degrees or
something it was in their
contract what
you l
hello hiy
us I can hear
you or not
anymore you're muted thank you Andy
thank you okay we can hear you just fine
good e
been chaotic this week
man catch
up see the
discussion e
I only saw the one yeah you're over on
the right
side to the left side the wrong
side how you doing today I am apparently
a lot less stressed than you
are a lot going on work that's for sure
P seven
days I did get a a very urgent text from
one of my major constituents today I E
my
wife she uh she's concerned about how
roads left Boulders of snow in our
driveway today she will be sitting
here e
fact that we haven't had any melt off
month
that we're getting to the point where
our
plows can't push over
and it starts to change how you manage
it you have to actually do have to go
back and push back so you have
room that makes
sense well if you want I just wrote out
the instructions to starting running and
stopping our
snowblower we got yeah do your wife use
it I use
[Music]
it oh really it starts with flip the
lever from the turtle to the rabbit yep
our turn the thing well let her know
yeah
it's wasn't good so how you doing today
SP a lot of
[Music]
money I might have a
little one Lodge and then two
areas yeah getting handed that that's a
I got handed that dog
it's can be but I mean I've actually my
old job used to
be e
you can't
really is that I imagine that's largely
because of familiarity of
mountain mountain are obviously
obviously the companyes different
revenue streams oh true different
business units so there is some
complexity like I have to live in
that you have to build your time no I
don't have to all my departments all my
all my departments
sh every
Department are
there go both ways um one of
my departmental
managers e
there's ways to keep it out
of yeah
mean
decision exist
today good I was there for me and
somebody
else e
soon it'll be Pioneer Square or whatever
that's right slice of pizza hang out
going to have some more options here
soon
I I would imagine they're trying to open
for June is there a liquor license
facility Stacy are the are the Pioneer
Court folks working on liquor licenses
and stuff like that Jean um so he's
gonna go through an attorney he called
me the other day and um he's like can I
just come in and meet with you and like
you know what do I need to know and I
was like no no no if you're going to go
through an attorney they they'll handle
all that for you I was like have your
attorney contact me if they need help
but the attorneys usually know exactly
what to
do e
[Music]
something e
how you
doing you doing
for
you I was reading my hometown newspaper
does yes we got a
couple never
anything on
theist e
changed years ago to allow that because
it seems like Jeff Co used to run
them but but that was many years ago
Jeff the
sh yes elected official what his
consequences
right favorite
parenting 17 there was a DUI checkpoint
of I'll say right around the corner from
our house
I totally forgot can you run up to the
Acme or Safeway
and forcing him to go through the
your respect
B
coming back at 27
and e
that was
y right
yourself
[Music]
good
go e
just
whatever St
he hasn't heard from us
we I know he said he's working
hey Dy we're just waiting on Dan you
know what was
that when when everyone's talking I
can't hear
just
[Music]
no
in
he
everybody the work session on January 14
2025 acknowledging Andy is
reme for
Andy can you hear us I just wanted to
confirm I can hear you now just now
thank
you should we keep that up Stacy we can
see and I'll keep an eye on
I don't know why that's happening but
I'll keep an eye on it from my station
as well and just make sure that we
remain off mute okay Andy if we go muted
without meaning to just wave your hands
so we know catch our attention thanks
perfect good try good
test all right diving right in here um
on the topic today as you know from your
staff report you received a draft I want
to emphasize draft comoving in um before
you I want to recognize that as we go
through went through everything over the
last three work sessions that we've held
on this it's one thing to sit and have
the conversation and provide direction
for me to interpret it and then write it
and then now you actually got to see
what it looks like um definitely this is
the opportunity to let
resale calculation with Capital
Improvements owner and renter employment
requirements we're going to verify along
with I did add assets um that was in the
Covenant and there was some uncertainty
after I sent out the staff report it was
brought up that might have misunderstood
that topic a little bit or completely
and then added other because I'm not
sure if you have other topics you saw in
the Covenant that were you wanted to
bring apologize for the aing problems um
okay so moving on to the first one with
the lottery
topic we're looking specifically for
Council feedback on the propol Lottery
language which you saw in the Covenant
specifically connected to this I'm going
to put a couple questions at you and
I'll put them back as we talk about this
um keep in your head we're looking for
feedback does the council want to modify
suggested priority requirements for
extra tickets should an affidavit alone
be acceptable without
verification should there be a penalty
for not going forward with if you are
the selected candidate for a lottery um
and I'll go back to these all
and Theos
tickets um to see how with the maximum
total raised would
be okay so as noted one the first thing
and I'll pause on this for a little bit
staff looked at examples of what other
communities do along with taking into
consideration what we heard from Council
at the last work session Council had a
little bit different opinions so this is
up for definite discussion you may have
um there was Conversation Over Copper
10mile Basin being a priority or not
being a priority so as drafted before
you to to start a discussion
on everybody would get a ticket if they
meet the definition of a resident and
then you would get an extra ticket so
ticket number two if you have been
working for a business located within
the town of Frisco at least 30 hours a
week for at least two consecutive years
then you can get a third ticket maximum
of three the way this is drafted and I
apologize step report said two and it
would be three um if you have lived and
or worked for a business located within
the 10 Mile Basin for five years or more
so as proposed you get an extra ticket
if you have been specifically working
within the town of Risco at least two
years and then there's an option for an
additional ticket if
you Bas in for at least five years um
working or living in that area so for
example somebody who works at Copper
Mountain for six years would get an
extra ticket through that second Clause
they would not get an extra ticket for
the first one because copper is not
within the
town so I'll open it here for comments
feedback thoughts so
so I know on the the
lottery I was trying to Hope like people
here longer than two years you know like
people who are here for 10 years 15
years that are applying for housing and
stuff and have worked in the town at
Brisco or you 10 Mile decent you know as
taking that group of people
how do we get people who've been here
you know two years I think
is you know but I was wondering how we
can get those people to here 10 15 years
you know if there's a lot of them I I
don't know how many there are what what
the average age is who people who are
trying to get into the summer County
Housing 10 years yeah you know um that's
kind of what I was when we were talking
Lottery you know I was thinking that
that kind of way you know
um so
that's too I hav't really
considered I just believe in the lottery
system for this process um I'm open to
the idea that uh maybe push that back a
little bit so that give an advantage to
people who have been here longer yeah I
I think two years is well it's kind of a
short time if people are in the same
Lottery with you they've been here 10 or
15 you know what do you think would be a
good
number Bas I don't know I just kind of
wondering what how many people are our
town applying for that kind of stuff and
how long they lived here you know
because you know 15 years or two years
is you know who do you pick 10
years I can't hear you
again yeah this is goingon to be a tough
meeting like this I can't hear you guys
at all you're off
again I think Stacy is working behind
the scenes and trying to troubleshoot it
right
now okay that
that's just get P pieces and pieces uh
I'm with you Dan I I feel like 10 years
is is at least the Mark I you know
personally I I think you should have the
opportunity to tr to get more than just
two or three tickets unless we are um
capping the number of people that can
join the lottery but that also hinders
people within
uh uh you know a time frame of signing
up for it so that that's a tough one
there
but it's almost like
copping people in the 10 Mile Basin
first before everyone else can
apply you know that's the hard thing
with Lil Nells neighborhood over there
that I don't know I think it was like
300 people one of my run was in on that
and he end up
155 you know when is when is cut when do
you cut it say you know now it's 300
people little that's that was includ a
didn't have to be resent just for that
right I think just a county county 300
clearly at least Cory has already
offered I will
volunteer so is the concept of these two
distinctions acceptable we're just
talking about the number of years as the
cut off or is there some
other weighted Lottery that you're
thinking so yeah are we talking about
you have to be here a certain amount of
years to even enter it well that's what
the two years is everybody everybody
that wants to enter yeah this is for an
add everybody gets one ticket yeah
you've been here two years in Frisco you
get two tickets if you've been five
years in the basic you get
yeah so everybody can
have mine was you've been here five
you've been here 10 years you get two
tickets that separates the people who've
been here
longer you know
yeah I was thinking like the people all
10 years or something 10 to 15 years
they all go into a
lottery they go into a lottery nobody
nobody you're saying you would actually
restrict the lottery
like if You' been you would have to have
been here for 10 years
whatever could
get
yeah sorry what like a first right of
refusal is that what you're saying Dan
no I'm just trying to get more equity
for people who've been here
longer that's how a lot of the people
who have been here 10 years trying to
get a housing they feel you know like oh
somebody just moved here two years ago
got a poli I've been living here for a
long time and how's that play with yeah
I five years or whatever number is in
that five year slot you have three times
the chance of somebody who's been here
year and I did read that how you know
the extra tickets have gotten people up
higher in you
know in the percentage of being close to
the that you know I wonder if if you set
that you know I'm only the only you know
person saying this you know if you set
that at 10 years I realized that we
don't where we would
set been here for 10 years actually be
consistent yeah like you know if you is
it going to be 100 people is it going to
be five people because ultimately the
homes have to get sold too yeah yeah
where where is that number at you know
yeah and I was you know I mean because
you can say it could be 20 years too
yeah yeah no I don't know
how and I that's why I'm having a
discussion I'm curious
um because you didn't want to cut it you
know you know everybody after two years
is how I guess the ticket way so anyone
maybe give them an extra you know I
don't know correct anyone can enter
two years is what they're
saying your first day you can enter
first day living here you can enter at
two years you get an additional ticket
oh is
that that's what it is oh I thought it
was two years I thought it was two years
as well I thought it was two years and
then you can
enter so you enter anybody who meets the
definition of a resident
enters they get a ticket if they've been
working in fritzco at least two years
then they get a second ticket at that
point and if they have then lived or
worked in the 10 Mile Basin for at least
five years then they
get and I can't hear you again
I don't think there is but if we were to
restrict entry into the lottery based on
how long you've been
here we have can I don't think you you
don't have an interstate commerce
discrimination is that's right that's
yeah no because it's it's always limited
to Residents right there's
no you can't discriminate against
anybody come out State because you have
to live here to participate you got to
be a resident no ISS
you know I know we're looking at Lottery
but is a weit
list would first go to be on a waight
with and and we pick down we pick down
the list you know so are you instead of
a lottery instead of a lottery just wa
yeah I think you have to give somebody
who's new to the community a chance to
get out they're moving here to take a
job knowing that they're going to be 30
years before they can get a house
they're not
moving so and I awaited lottery I think
is fair and what whatever the numbers
are whatever the increments are but you
got to give somebody who even though
they're new to the
community they're coming here they want
to buy a house they should have a chance
is it as bit of a chance as somebody
who's been here 10 years
I can't hear any of
it Andy we're gonna pause for a minute
while they troubleshoot so we won't have
they almost thanks Andy we're trying to
figure it out okay yeah it's tough I end
up hearing half of what everyone says
okay on pause all
right select account management account
setting
tab e
cool so Zoom did an update apparently
and added it as a new
feature thanks Z
so is our
zo up
to in
Zoom
there's you go into
settings yeah upgrade oh that's an
upgrade e
people
I made
a and it hasn't
gone and now it'll make a noise
why
hey I'm going to try to um the meeting
and just rejoin it see if that helps so
you'll see us disappear
[Music]
EX
all
dis
[Music]
what
about e
I mean I could just sit here
oh I mean it'll make a noise now when it
goes
off e
all we need is the list like this no no
no back into
shows don't know if's a
sound I think you're
right yeah
well I guess you're right if it is
assume you're
right yeah
f
can
know what I'm saying so he can
still your
cellone and I'm G to leave this
and then you want to hear me over the
video yeah we can hear you
fine yeah okay I can hear you uh I don't
know if I can hear everyone else you're
right next to Stacy's phone
oh
barely I can hear you not well but I can
hear
you pretty loud can you hear me
now yeah now while you're on the video I
can yeah so I think it looks like the
options are one which I don't know make
sense to keep having the glitch where
Cheeks getting disconnect here and I
think my concern with that is it also
means anyone watching the recording
can't hear when they're trying to watch
this at another time or hear what happen
but we do it this way but it sounds like
Andy may not hear you
well we've kind of gone through all the
same troubleshooting that we could so
far yeah I don't know what what you want
to do but
I we try
screaming no this is a zoom problem and
that's all it's the whole
thing switch
team I mean I think and's Andy's
participation and ability to hear the
discussion is pretty critical for the
entire night but especially for this
segment do we is it I mean I hate even
suggest this but do we hold this work
session off until Andy is back in
town with
me I'll be back I'm scheduled to be back
on the 28th I'll be back on the
27th we did that earlier later
I'm I hate to do that I you know but I
do want to hear what everyone's saying
it's not it's not you doing it we want
you to
be are you are you available earlier
than four o'clock on the 28
that see I'll check m
ATT
K on the
28th I have a very important corporate
meeting I would love to be available
on miss that meeting yes I am
available it as early
as I would be available in
person on the
28th take the rest our time for this
item try troubleshoot
yeah we don't have AUM left in the
room just stop the work session I'll put
up messaging for the public just so they
understand do do
I see we get it
fixed the idea is we we don't have a
quorum if you can't hear Andy so we drop
this and they're going to try and
troubleshoot at least for the rest of
the the night take this time and we'll
be in contact with you okay hang out
sorry
than
[Music]
hey
Tom the
[Music]
well
second thing I said is if you turn off
the noise
cancellation yeah it's the
of
course that's what we
did we might be okay
Andy can you hear
us I can hear you you know but it's it's
choppy when everybody talks but oh yeah
that's normal that's the normal LEL
performance I can hear you it's it's not
going mute at the moment on
you should we try it
we no he's not no
like yes that's correct
[Laughter]
anything oh we're trying we think so we
hope
so it's been it has Auto muted one time
full confidence
Andy you can hear us
yes you had spoken last you can hear
me what we were talking through was the
Fair way to do the the um Lottery to
give appropriate weight to people who
have been here long appropriate
opportunity to people who are new to the
C so just to throw out
numbers if we
gave one ticket to everybody meaning no
matter how long you've been here you get
an additional ticket after you've been
here for two years an additional ticket
after you've been here five years and an
additional ticket after you've been here
10 years so the 10 plus folks get four
tickets somebody who is new to the
community does have
a tiet in with just to throw that out
there so we're not talking about white
paper paper ideas and as you discussed
talk about Frisco 10 miles on
the yeah I know I'm losing
my sense of that needing to be critical
okay how how wide the net is isn't
something okay does anybody have a
strong opinion or is it within s County
think of that yeah I I
I I would as far as if you can apply
period if you've been in Summit County
for zero amount of time you're saying
you can apply for our Workforce housing
you get one ticket is that what you're
saying right so everybody has at least
an opportunity and no matter how long
you've been here you have a chance to
have a ticket in the buck but then if
you've been here two five and 10 you get
extra tickets and what about if you've
been in the M Basin for that
long we're looking forward to your
opinion because I don't have one meaning
whether we do this as just Frisco the 10
Mile Basin or all of Summit County is a
question for the T yeah you know
personally I I feel like the people who
have been vested in Frisco are the
people who have been in the 10- mile
Basin and uh you know that should count
for something whatever that is if that's
another ticket I don't know but
uh you know then then we're also getting
into how many people are applying for
these units and you I'm just I I I'm
just throwing ideas if we did zero and
two in Frisco five and 10 is Sun
County or not Frisco 10 Mile Basin zero
and two are 10 Mile Basin and five and
10 is all count you
know not Su County not all Sumit
County well staff had suggested all
Summit County at some point in the
criteria because of the fact that a lot
of the other communities do allow from
Summit County so it's kind of recognized
among staff that should all towns start
trying to open it up for so it's fair
and that's just something that's been
brought up by staff too it's we're not
set it to the council and and I and I
see that
uh for us we don't have you know like
bre has hot Sil has tons you know and
it's kind of hard to get them all you
know but K I got 10 Mile Basin in Frisco
I thought that's what we just talking
about K right now would you say that all
the municipalities in the county are
moving towards kind of reciprocity on
that there are priority periods in a few
um I can pull it up I I don't feel
comfortable saying they're all going
that direction I don't know if the
Housing Authority has that answer about
if all communities are going towards
Sumit County or if some are still
specific priority for just a Bas that
they're located in our
town okay so so for me uh you know I I
I'm am definitely I would say against
the idea of only allowing one or two
extra tickets in which case you know
you've got this extra ticket at five
another extra ticket at 10 another extra
ticket at 10 Mile Basin uh you know you
you've and then I don't know how many
tickets could we could you
accumulate uh to bump you up the lottery
would be the idea
there
uh you know those of us who have made
the sacrifices to stay in this
town I don't know have made those
sacrifices plenty other people have had
to choose to be able to buy something
somewhere else I don't necessarily want
to penalize them because they ended up
having to buy something in in Summit
Cove uh because they couldn't buy
something here you know I was gone for
maybe uh you know two two years of my
tenure here uh and owning another place
and we ended up being able to buy
in uh so that's a tough one but feel
like those that have stayed should at
least have another
ticket what would that look like what do
you
mean like
that now now you're up to five tickets
if you've been here for 10 years and
you've been here in the 10 Mile Basin
and you've been here you know uh uh
working for somebody within the 10 m
base and area uh you know gives you more
tickets I you know that's what I'm
throwing out
here if you did that are you thinking
then it would be Summit County for the
two years Summit County for the five
years Summit County for the 10 years and
then an extra ticket if you're within
the 10 Mile Basin just in general for a
certain amount of years or
um you know I mean originally I was
thinking 10 Mile Basin for for all of it
as Dan was saying uh
but you know
uh yeah that's that's tough one how do
you guys feel about that in the first
place I feel like I'd like to put it in
there for
now and let this be one that we talk
about a little more meaning if we are at
the point of 02 2 5 and
10 and then we're down to the
geography let's let's let declare
success and move on to the next topic
and we can hit geography next time so
yeah would be clear for me I like the
idea of
theg my
concern because if you open this up
County you're going to get 200 if you
open it up to 10 Mile base in Frisco
you're going to get 15 apps it Chang the
whole
damic that's for sure I like the concept
but I agree
geography and and probably similar thing
not putting words in your mouth
understanding what the other towns are
doing if they're all opening it up to
our people then I think there's a
conversation
about go I think that conversation Point
tooties do have considerably more
available than we do so
conversation well and this is to really
was to take care of our Workforce we're
building it to keep our town sustainable
people here you know working and living
here and not have to drive from Reon or
just sumach code you know that's the
thing is they work here be nice that
they live here just so they're not
taking an hour bus or half hour bus you
know so so when you when you put Summit
County in there and people are working
over in Breck and they get a house here
and then they're commute our you know
it' be nice that people in the town they
were I agree I just don't want to get
into a geography War where our if we
have people who work here that have
secured housing in Dylan Silverthorn or
anywhere else or the
county they relieved us of that ear I
yeah so now all of a sudden if we shut
it down to their
folks I think
it yeah whether it's a Mayors and
managers or whatever this is I don't
think we have what we need to make this
decision right now yeah but we're also
not talking about shutting it down to
anybody else we're talking about giving
a little extra favor to those that have
that are
vested so maybe County gets one ticket
like the two-year
people if you're in some County Frisco
10 Mile Basin you're getting one
ticket in fris for so many years you get
more tickets I don't know ex thatly
we're still including
now how about we table the location part
for now I'll dra the at least the extra
tickets based on the years we have I'll
probably just put something in as a
placeholder and then we can get back to
it today or talk about ites that
work at least we can maybe as long as as
long as it doesn't just go
away you know and like like don't rely
on us to have to bring that back up that
should be in there somewhere because
this is important to at least three of
us got
it
okay I'm not sure who the other one is
but I find it important I just think we
need to flush this one out a little
further other one in our current 2019
deep restriction isn't there something
on
resales that we we're Limited in
geography in a first round and then we
open it up further correct the first
round is town of Frisco employ
employment within the town boundaries
okay after 30 days which we've yet to
hit since 2019 and under that Covenant
it would open up to anybody employed
within Summit County that's in resales
right
resales I just that's an other way of
thinking about it but am I speaking for
the group to say
while we want to at some level
prioritize Frisco Andor the 10 Mile
Basin we also want to be cooperative and
spirited with the workforce housing
issues throughout the county if there's
a balance to create let's talk about
that but from a direction
standpoint is that where we
are we're just losing it in the detail
that fair no I I've I've always felt
that we are Frisco Centric sitting in
SMI County and we have always made our
decisions based on Frisco and the 10
Mile Basin and the voters in
Frisco that's where I feel like we've
been and that's where I feel like our
loyalty really lies and so you know I
I'm good with first wrer refusal to
those that have have uh that are that
I've made the sacrifice to be
here
okay kti next okay so that entered the
first bullet question here um we talked
about the affidavit if that would alone
would be acceptable so is the council
okay the way the language was drafted
for a lottery that we would take
someone's affidavit based on their
longevity here employment here resident
here I will say the stakes are too high
trust everyone but cut the cards anyway
so take more don't accept just an
affidavit just some does anyone have any
objections
to telling you they've been here years
not
show in order to get a mortgage you you
have to you know sell you're first born
so like that's all part of
it okay and then it was brought up at
the last work session the possibility
that the to consider if you were the
first selected for a lottery and you
turn down that unit should you have some
kind of a timeline that you couldn't
apply for the next another unit um in
response to that we did draft and put
that in there a lot saving 30 days I
didn't want to make a couple points to
this um obviously it was brought up also
since the staff report went out what
would happen if an inspection revealed
problems with the property somebody
should not be penalized for backing out
of that contract um and then also the
Housing Authority brought up a really
good point after reading the staff
report a lot of units don't always do an
open house prior to the lottery so
people actually get selected and then
they go see the unit and then they
realize it may not actually be what they
want um so those were just two points to
put in to this discussion it kind of
came out after the staff report and
since the discussion in December I'm not
up for penalizing people in that fashion
because especially you don't get to see
the
unit uh I I'm more interested in how do
we get people to apply for the units
that fit their bill as opposed to you
know just blanket getting into every
unit
possible uh
you know if you want a two-bedroom unit
then you go for two-bedroom units how do
we keep it that sort of thing if you you
know like you wouldn't apply for a
four-bedroom unit if there ever was one
or you wouldn't apply for you know a
studio if I don't know maybe you would
want a studio whatever because you would
uh qualify um but if you wouldn't
qualify for a three-bedroom then you
shouldn't be going after that one how do
we keep it that people are are are
staying within their
parameters I think that's what part of
what the penalty is trying to to do
through that penalty right and I'm
against the penalty also in general
because you know you don't get to go see
the units in and uh and there might be
inspection issues that's why I'm against
the penalty but I see the reason for the
penalty and I'm just wondering if there
is a way
besides you know
letting having to have the seller with
40 have 40 people coming to their unit
is there a way that we can more solidify
the information so that people who are
going into a lottery know what they are
getting outside of
inspection outside of something that
would be a legitimate reason not to take
the is there a way that it could be made
very very clear what you were getting so
that people are going for the unit they
actually do want not just entering the
line enter the lottery and figure it out
later
right um so I'm kind of I'm caught in
this in the sense I don't like the
penalty but I understand the reason for
it is there a way
also is there a pre-qualification
process that can be done you know like
so let's say someone let's say someone
who would qualify for a
studio or one bedroom and would not
qualify say a for that could be caught
at that time like well you know you're
not really
get this for but can't really
afford those are my
thoughts that's a good point and I don't
know how the system works but if you've
got an 80% Ami unit the person has 120%
Ami
income are they in the lottery or
they've already been screened
out sorry it's after it's after the
numbers drawn that you find out that
they don't qualify
qualify the
parameters and I honestly think that
this question was much more relevant
when we were talking about if you lose
the lottery multiple times you get extra
balls we're okay with the lottery
prioritization being based on years of
employe or being a part of the community
and not how many times have you lost the
lottery yeah all we're doing is clogging
the system and that's an sha problem
that maybe they solve through practice
as opposed to through deed
restriction pre pre-screening but I
don't think we need a deed restriction
of how to prescreen your people so we're
all agreement agreed to remove the penal
that was drafted
yes sorry I'm just making really clear
notes
on okay
all right moving on next topic resale
calculation with Capital Improvements um
what staff heard over the last couple
discussions was the resale calculation
again resale c not initial sale price
but the resale calculation should be
modified to be a sum of the purchase
price plus 3% plus 3% a year plus
unlimited Capital Improvements that was
um analyzed in the staff report for you
this is just the language that you saw
before you um we'll talk about that and
then the BC and D we had some questions
on WE carried this over from standard um
staff is going to look at a little bit
more with the attorney about the
necessity of needing to ensure
appliances are working order things like
that so I don't want to bog up the
conversation tonight with our limited
time but we did ask do we really need to
be doing this and are we doing it so
staff will do a little bit more research
into that part of this so for right now
the question to council is is the way
this is written what the council wanted
and how you want to continue moving
forward with the Covenant language which
is the sum of three% a year not
compounded plus unlimited Capital
Improvements for for me uh the biggest
thing
was was if you were gonna you know say
we we call out peak one say you happen
to build a garage you know and you have
you know your storage space above your
garage you've got a new you know you've
got square footage that you've added to
your
house um you know I I feel like you
should get compensated for it it
definitely moves your house into a
higher Ami category than what you bought
it
at I I I don't feel like there's any
other possibility unless we add
adus uh or the ability to add an Adu to
to Workforce housing uh that
would bump you to a new Ami category
without going just down because if
everything uh if we don't include
improvements and people don't incl
improve their places then their Ami
categor is g to end up going down
because the house is going to be
worthless not worthless worth
less and just to be clear New Living
Spaces and garages is allowed to be it's
not part of the depreciation or anything
it's just gets added to the base
price the garage just gets added to the
base price whether it was built
originally or later it's not depreciated
or anything it's not appreciated I'm
good with this with the caveat in the in
the drafting that I'm good with 3% plus
unlimited but wherever it says unlimited
it should reflect less depreciation so
everybody knows that if you spend $5,000
painting your house last year three
years ago you go to sell the property
you're not getting
$5,000 you're going to get 5,000 less
depreciated amount so I just think we
constantly are harping you're getting
all of your Capital Improvements back
and it's just a perception issue more
than anything
else I'd agree with that reasonable
depreciation yeah I agree with the
aspect um can you put the follow the
screen
before SK a couple
get so also though in the the language
here
the staff is suggesting just a simple 3%
calculation correct taking out of the
greater than Ami or correct that doesn't
necessarily greater than with the chart
because trying to get away from that
chart there's been too many complaints
about it and the uncertainty of it um
and then as far as Capital Improvements
it is very unique it would be unique in
the county to have unlimited Capital
Improvements whether that would affect
the buo affordability we can't say for
sure because we don't have any specific
example most um jurisdictions that look
at that have Capital Improvements
limited to 10 or 20% of the initial
purchase price so unlimited is very
drastically different and it could lead
to buyer affordability that's that's a
concern so on the resale the garage is
still added on that garage would always
be added on to the full value so then
that means that that would be at if it
has a garage be added
on so you might want to cut the Capital
Improvements to and we could be more
clear maybe that's the direction the
council might consider directing staff
to write it as livable space does not
depreciate and will be added to the base
price and then the other the things that
are on the five and 10 year depreciation
or 10 and 20 year depreciation schedule
maybe we look at continuing that as is
with the change that the council
recommended to go from five to 10 year
yeah I like
that because I was reading something in
here the Adu units only
back the
example correct yeah and that's because
they have the percentage of the S and
then when they make up then they make
that up in rent theying the rent they're
taking in by having
that don't have a there's no extra
Inc but it almost sounds like that might
be more the direction the council is
really dressing is having recognizing
living space and garages as that
shouldn't be penalized in the future or
taken off of value
butre yeah I think so
too they shouldn't have to lose that
money you know or half the money or
something go ahead no no Martin after
don't
fight go
ahead um yeah I you know since there
have been no adus if someone was gonna
add an Adu especially nowadays that the
cost of doing such is considerable and
you shouldn't get penalized for that
necessarily even though over the long
term you get paid back with uh with you
know a positive cash flow in rent if
there's positive cash flow there uh you
know so that that's where it's
like I don't know if it's depreciation
on that as well but uh you know you
should get paid back for uh the you know
your your square
footage we're all clear on that
additions like that go add to the basis
your original purchase price and I I
think that's how it's written but I
could if I'm wrong on how it's written I
think that we could create it that way
Post in the next
draft then on the the other issue which
I know is also a topic people are
interested in is is that taking out the
language of the Ami greater greater than
Ami or
3% um right now and I I think I had this
position the last
time if I didn't
K right now uh it's my position that I'm
okay with the Ami the greater
that I'm okay
I remember we did a
calculation and I see where I I see the
argument about trouble with the Ami
table and I can see where this could go
multiple
ways is most of the county moving to
only 3% or are they moving to greater
than 2% or 3% some are only two% some
are three but there's no there's no
there's no no greater other
municipalities are moving away from the
Ami chart they usually haven't even used
the Ami chart it's only our 2019 company
inis that did for resale calculations
okay yeah
yeah nobody I'm in favor of the of the
verbage of greater than and keeping the
Ami schedule in there at this point the
schedule is only going to keep going
down I I don't see the sea ever you know
raising the Ami levels uh because their
goal is to keep it cheaper for everyone
I I think it falls back into when we
originally talked about this the
windfall is not a major windfall there
if it goes either way and uh the thing
is if we're just taking away the ability
uh to you know to make a little bit more
you know what's a little bit more right
uh staff came up with the last time it
was like6 to 14,000 difference on either
side and if this point with the
readjusted
sea scale I it's you're going with 3%
anyway at this point you know I I don't
you know th this is what uh the HOA of
of our largest uh
uh constituent owned uh neighborhood has
come forward to say that they approve of
and they agree with I agree with them I
will just say I do think the cost value
was actually up to at least $100,000
difference sometimes not six to 14 just
to put that out there and I I'd have to
run the number or bring them forward
again but I do remember that we were up
to 100,000 on properties just to clarify
well 100,000 certainly PES
theil and it's also as fast as as fast
as interest rates went up
it can come down and all of a sudden
that chart changes again so the thought
that it's only going in One Direction
because s it's a it's a
formula it's
not it has nothing to do with interest R
it's a formula that is yes it does
Andy interest rates are part of the
formula as far as why the
sea lowered the the scale yeah it's it's
an input to
formula okay all right uh but with
that
um keep going and I let let me come back
to where I was yeah I I just I mean one
is Simplicity there's there's a fairness
element there's a consistency element
throughout the
county I think that we're just creating
uncertainty in the market we don't need
to you know
there's so I and I respect what people
who have the deed restriction would
prefer which is having the opportunity
to sell the house for as much as
possible
um I think giving changing the deed
restriction from the lesser of to just a
3% escalation is a fair
adjustment in light of everything else
going on in the community that's where I
stand and so you know if we Al look at
the values of say 100% Ami unit or 120%
or 160% Ami unit and say Smith ranch or
anywhere else that they're getting built
you know what what is that uh equal
to uh comparatively because if now
you're you're only being able to sell
does that mean you're lowering your Ami
saleability so does your 160 house at
only 3% sell at a 120
level or are you able to follow the
market and sell at a 160 level uh based
off of what everything else is going for
in in work force
housing are you asking
Andy the comparison between a a new
product like Smith Ranch to a existing
project and on a
resale uh sure at this point you know
but maybe you've been in Smith Ranch for
a short time you know the thing is is
that just hasn't been around as long you
know I don't know what's happening in in
Wellington as compared as comparison uh
you know that have been around as long
because the the the the the table is
used primarily
for new sales
that's the purpose of it Frisco has
written it in as part of resales Smith
Ranch doesn't have it as part of
resales they only use the table
for new
sales and then
automatically uh any resale is just
percentage based uh is a straight
percentage correct
okay to to the sense of giving the
unlimited Capital Improvements is
also an acknowledgement that we're
trying to be fair to the
sellers and we're doing something that
no other community is actually
doing which gives them the benefit of
what they've spent on the house just
from
a if the goal from the sell's
perspective which it always is is to
sell for as much as possible under our
deed restriction offering opportunities
to sell at a higher price than anybody
else in the community because we're
giving 3% not 2% and 100% of Capital
Improvements less
depreciation as opposed to some cap on
Capital Improvements I disagree there
andy I I feel like that is really just
enabling people to make the updates that
they need to do already to their places
because otherwise they won't do the the
updates and then they'll just sell at
their 3% and the house will be uh
undervalued as far as uh uh you know the
condition it's in um and you know unless
you're adding a garage and or an ad or
something like that because otherwise
just the other improvements that you're
getting paid back for are just to pay
you back for what you've had to put into
the house to keep it up for the most
part unless you hit cap and then you're
throwing the money away correct and yes
you know future units are now going for
2% but we even have units in Frisco that
are four and
five%
C so I I I don't see like going
backwards in uh you know and saying we
only give them 2% without the Ami uh
greater than uh I I don't see that as
any benefit whatsoever I see that as a
taking away from their
possibilities and again I am
here
to shore up uh the ability for Mobility
for our constituency I am not here to
just keep these units absolutely cheap
for perpetuity for whoever else is
coming in I you know I want to support
the people that you are vested in this
community
then why not remove the Deep
restriction why not that doesn't make
any sense because you bought a unit with
the deed restriction we're talking about
making the deed restriction more fair
and
Equitable the goal is to maximize the
sale
price if that's the focus fair and
Equitable man for a deed restricted unit
I'm sorry in a fair and Equitable manner
for a deed restricted unit yes I'm not
saying that
everybody should you know that it should
all go market value remotely I'm saying
it should be fair and Equitable based
off of what you bought it for what
you've done to your unit and what you're
going to be able to get out of
it so guess that's what we disagree is
I'm I'm viewing fair and Equitable as a
3% escalation plus unlimited
Capital um reimbursements and you're
viewing it as more than that
the only thing at this point I'm viewing
as more than that is that the verbage
should be greater than for uh Ami
schedule or
3% we're also you were also mentioning
like well we're doing better because uh
you know we we're not at 2% I'm talking
about not going backwards like that
right so I agre I agree 3% is fair yeah
the only difference right now is that
I'm talking about the greater of you're
you're all of the things that we're
offering that is better than everybody
else which is great but I'm also saying
that greater than is where we should be
for the I'm factoring in the I'm
factoring in the complexity and
uncertainty of the
Ami sure as as the
preferred formula is just eliminating
that element of the of the
calculation and do you have thoughts on
yeah I'm kind of with you
you know this is that's what brought us
into this this mess anyways is the Ami
chart so even if we made it Greater and
it changes you know it we'll might be
right back at this you know I know he's
you know things are going higher and but
I just like to get rid of the Ami chart
I think that caused the problems to
begin with you know yeah we're using it
to get people into units Tom said it's
used for that but maybe it's just it's
3% that's what you make and then they
know what they make and they're not
looking at the Ami chart of and it's
going up and down okay but wait a sec
Dan if I could yeah doesn't that mean
that if you have done nothing to your
unit and you're selling for only 3% 10
years later doesn't that mean that the
next buyer coming in is buying at 120%
instead of 140 as it was before
I don't know the I I understand what
what you I think I understand what
you're trying to express Andy is that
the price can vary and and the the
resale price could vary and equal
something that someone would look at the
table and say well this is hitting a
different Ami but the unit itself has a
designated
Ami it's and uh somebody has to qualify
at that Ami it it it doesn't necessarily
have anything to do with the resale
price so the new people coming in even
if they're going to buy it at say it's
160% Ami unit and if they're going to
buy it at a value of a
120% Ami unit they still have to be
approved at 160 it would more normally
go the other way where
a unit might be priced because of the 3%
escalator equal to a 160 unit but the
unit is designated and was originally
designated 120% unit they're going to
have to qualify at 120% to buy that
unit that's not that like the diversity
of Ami levels especially in peak one in
particular was based on you know there
the same house but but the diversity is
the buyer not the
price the diversity is is achieved
because of the designation of the unit
and what that buyer has to qualify
at right but what I'm saying is now
you're changing the Ami value of the
entire neighborhood no no not at
all all that all that's changing is the
resale price
so okay so in other words a 160% Ami
unit you uh to come which is a
qualification designation and you still
have to qualify for 160% Ami unit but
you're purchasing it for 120% Ami
value that that is possible yes but
usually it's the other way around where
your purchase price equals something on
the chart that's higher than the Ami
designated for that
unit that's what's happening more
often and does that not lean towards
going greater than as opposed to less
than or as no it actually it actually
supports the other
argument well I think it then it depends
on what your priorities are yeah yeah it
does it depends on you know that's
that's why
affordability is is that nebulous thing
of a affordability is something that's
hard to pin
down sure and we maybe we need to also
Define what it is that's important to us
as a
council yeah this is a tricky this is a
tricky one I'm not saying it's easy
yeah I'll say to you know as as Daniel
as Dan said that this is kind of what
started this whole discussion
you know I've heard from a lot of the
peak1 constituency Court leing the
HOA
letter if I was if we were going to End
discussion right now based on everything
that both you two have said that Tom
added in and that Andy is added in based
on where we're at this conversation and
what I've heard from the constituency I
would say keep the language as
greater the Ami in the calculation so
that's where I'm right now for those are
reasons but I see all the reasons for
decisions so right now we don't have
consensus should we move on or go to
back to this at another meeting or how
do you want
528 yeah I think we have our other two
Council people out there well since
we're also going to carry on another
discussion why not add to that can all
revisit can you or you that tell us what
happens if we are two to two on
something think motion
failed
but so it stays so the document stays
the way it is so the document would stay
the way it is it would stay the way it
is as
lesser
yes yes I didn't hear that it and
requires three of the four um to make a
change to the
Covenant
so it stays the way it is is what you're
saying yes it requires a majority vote
to change
it even if we're changing everything
else and
uh um and we're we're we're gonna put
forward a new covenant
uhy are you asking are you asking we
move forward would only that stay the
same the lesser than or would the whole
thing get thrown out it depends on the
motion made okay right you'll be
presented with a document y you can
accept all of it you can accept none of
it you can accept parts of it you can
change it so you know to the extent
there's a motion to accept it all and it
fails we I guess we move on but
at at this point you're not voting so
all you have is a a lack of consense
consensus because you're too do to
change that
portion but if we get to the vote but
then you're G to be voting on the whole
thing that's why they gave you yeah yeah
that that's that's
different uh you know with that if we
have to move on we should move on but I
feel like this needs to be discussed
further uh and we need more here before
we just decide that H it's 2 two and
we'll keep it we'll keep the the writing
out of
there not we're not done with this well
no I feel like we were at the point
before where we were talking greater
than and it hasn't even and it's now not
in there at all you know and so I feel
like there's
actually your your consensus statement
last meeting and we've gone back and
listened to the recording you were at a
consensus of 3% and Andy you were in the
minority that's what we've put that's
what staff wrote up but we understand at
this point you're not at
consensus
I so are we gonna are we are gonna are
we G to talk about this more or no uh as
far as I think that there's enough
there's still and I won't do we're not
GNA go through this but just to show you
there's still questions on here we need
it answer tonight and since we ran out
of time um I think we're just GNA have
to have this same item same discussion I
can add the information requested be
brought up about the locations but I
think we're going to have to return
again including this
topic okay nobody said it was going to
be easy no I think we keep talking until
we get it done and I would suggest the
term consensus means all four of us
agree correct term majority means that
three of us agree and it goes forward so
we're going for our goal is majority we
hope for consensus because that is the
better way um good call majority is
where we need to be okay let's take a
couple minute break convene the whole
Council and move to the next item so we
taking the rest the
rest
e e
right
it's not in my
way it's a
unique start roll call com
com
always
no this
this work
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doeses okay
that's it's the it's
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it's
[Music]
good bud you
time
rary breakfast is 7 it starts at 7:30 at
8:00 it kind of transitions from
announcements rary bus
to
answer thank
you yeah I did see any
on now I don't
they'll
show hi everybody thanks for the earlier
conversation and we're going to move on
to our second agenda tonight uh which is
going to be parklet and commercial use
of town property discussion with that it
looks like we have Vanessa and
Chris and
Diane she's here for
support um I'm going talk a little bit
about the background park because I've
been here since
beginning
parness and then this we'll talk a
little bit about analysis regarding the
challenges some of the successes and
then also some
scenarios as well as that regarding use
of not only cets but of um it's really a
use of to
purposes
fers this memo we worked on for quite a
long time and something just happened
and we realized yesterday that it was
not packet
so hopefully you have had a chance to
look at it so we may dive just a little
bit deeper than would
normally that all right so the parket
journey actually
still beginning began in
2018 um there was um an idea to build a
parklet just to give it a try and it was
um it was deployed for one weekend in
front of
Rocky and um it was an interest like it
was pretty cool it was like a beautiful
day and people were sitting out there
enjoying coffee so when um
2020 rolled around and you may remember
that there was a pandemic in 2020 it
changed how we did Commerce it does it
is a remarkably long time ago almost
five years at this point um the town was
looking for ways to make sure that
businesses could take business outside
um to places where they were safer and
part of that was standing up a prominade
very quickly but then Council started
thinking about hey what do we do in the
winter um how do we also delineate some
spaces a little bit more for liquor
licenses we're seeing some of the things
that are not looking as good um and we
want to make sure that we make uh we
honor the character of Main Street so in
August 2020 um the town received a re
Street Grant from SE do in 2000 um there
was a matching component to that and
Public Works busily got to work building
pandemics um building excuse me
yeah like the moment I bring up
pandemics like nothing else I can think
about every once in a while I forget
that that actually happened in 2020 so
the first 20 were um deployed that fall
and uh people really enjoyed them um
they came back in 2021 along with the
prominade again defining liquor
licensing Bas a little bit more and then
Council decided for 2022 not to do a
prominade um and then in 2023 we had
pretty significant Outreach to uh
businesses but also to the community and
what businesses said is hey we still
don't want a prominant but we want
parklets and so parklets were deployed
again in 2023 and
2024 um 2022 first year that any fees
were charged and then
um fall 2023 the decision was made to no
longer deploy them in the winter what
what's happening is there the norm was
changing again and people were moving
more inside and people weren't necessar
neily up for having expanded space
harder to get employees um and also not
that fun to clean off a parklet every
morning when there's a lot of snow and
so Town saw that that that was no longer
a need so here we are in 2020 thinking
about how do we move
forward
Chris so use history it went from 20
Park parlitz in 2020 um really the
height 54 in 2021 to 39 Park clits right
now I think the thing that's notable and
like should I look at history of how
they've been used all along no I think
it's it's at this point it's shaking out
the businesses who want to use it and so
out of the 19 businesses that have Park
list in 2024 11 were restaurants bars
six were retail and then two were
primarily service providers um like a
real estate office they put nice chair
um so that is how it breaks down and I
think that's going to be really relevant
to the discussion later I also included
a bunch of photography of um parklets in
here and the prominade the middle
photography is the prominade I thought
we really should think about that we we
did in 2021 have a prominade with a lot
of parklets on it um and then the
picture below is actually butter horn U
Bakery uh which deploys parklets with a
really a massive amount of success wow
do they expand their seating um but they
also do something else that will come up
later when talks a little bit about the
challenges around this and that is
you'll see so bottom picture you'll see
um there's a a a server station um right
by the lamp post and then there's more
additional seating to the left on the
sidewalk and we got we saw some really
interesting stuff in terms of starting
to squeeze people's access um to
sidewalks and being able to pass through
so we wanted to make sure we put that
picture in there
parket fees went from no fees to $1 per
square foot to $150 per square foot to
$3 per square foot and as talk about
later we're still not at the point where
we're
covering we're covering our expenses for
parklets it takes a lot of Labor um to
put the parklets out we close Main
Street for much of day on the front end
and on the back end and there's a fair
amount of Maintenance now that they're
almost 5 years old that's required for
parket and we did something new this
year too after talking to Public Works
what we saw is that it was a lot of work
to put up lighting streight lights and
not everybody necessarily wanted them or
really was using them so they their
businesses weren't open in the summer
when it was dark out and they needed
lighting so um they're like okay how
much does it cost us to put these up and
um $75 is what we landed on um per
parklet and so only the businesses that
were going to be utilizing them in the
evening for Commerce
lighting so just working on the
resources around that too and we had a
fair amount of calls over the course of
the summer um for a few businesses that
were like hey my spring lights went out
and Public Works um was great and they
went out and fixed them but it's another
component they aren't just put out there
and we call it good more stuff that
needs to
happen Vanessa um I'm going to go
through some of the successes and then
challenges we've had with parklets um
and then go through a few different
scenarios going forward and we have a
list of questions at the end to uh to
ask you through your input um stop me
throughout if you have any questions
talk more these items um kind of to give
a summary of the successes that we've
seen over the last uh than five years AP
parlitz it's been a unique program which
has created distinct characters of
Frisco's Main Street Frisco is the only
municipality in the area that has a
program like this um parklets um it's
increased business capacity in the busy
summer months along Main Street it's
created a vibrant and welcoming
atmosphere encourages Community
Connection supports Commerce um we're go
through the the challenges here in a
minute but as far as major issues or
unexpected issues we've really had not
many of those over its Five Seasons and
it's run fairly well and then it's
evolved with Community needs some
examples of these are adding different
railings uh installing them on site
trees you can see in the picture where
we've had murals on areas that are
difficult Park parking areas between
them so we've seen some changes over the
years some of the challenges we've had
first kind of an obvious one is I we
take up parking spaces difficult to give
an exact count on these because it
depends if they're in the parallel
spaces the head in spaces if they're
right against each other have little
spaces between them depending on the
businesses but roughly it's about a one:
one um parking spaces that you're losing
for how many parkes we put out in a
year uh then there's the maintenance
needs which we started discussing so far
what we're seeing is that the expenses
exceed the revenues we're bringing in
from it uh roughly $199,000 a year that
number includes both our hard cost you
know five years old they're stored
outside in the winter they don't have a
long lifespan so we're having to rebuild
a lot of these so we have the heart
Direct material cost of them and then we
have the labor and Equipment cost for
our staff to install them to maintain
them throughout the summer to store them
and then rebuild them winter and the
spring and then kind of this third point
is somewhat of an existing issue we have
on Main Street but it's worsened um in
these parklet areas and that is um kind
of uh issues along the sidewalks um
either between people putting seating
signage merchandise
they're at the edge of the sidewalk and
the sidewalk kind of expanding Beyond
those parklets you see that in some
areas where businesses don't have
parlets but it's little more prominent
where there already is one that that
space starts expanding and then it
encroaches into the sidewalk you get
pinch points areas that you might have
difficulty where we're not Eda access or
other maintenance
issues then this next one again is is
somewhat of an existing conflict that
gets worsened um Main Street especially
in the summer it's very busy between
Vehicles pedestrians parking and then
when we add parklets it's adding another
use kind of right near this vehicle and
parking
space parking and pedestrians and
vehicles it's you kind of all in one
zone there then we have the storage of
parklets um currently we store them in
the winter we remove them in the PA we
store them up at our Public Works Yard
up at the
P we have space where we store them but
you know it's valuable storage area and
it does does take up space to to keep
those through the win the spring and
then this last point is some feedback
that we've gotten um from the community
of some people stating that either they
appear messy or junky or that some of
them are passive use that aren't
necessarily a restaurant so you know
they sit BAC in and empty most of the
time and that doesn't necessarily
outweigh the Value Parking
so you we're discussing more than just
parklets here we want to discuss all
commercial use of right away within the
town so here's an example at Rebel
Sports this summer this is one where
we've licensed and approved it so very
similar process to having a parklet they
just don't actually use a
parlet off this area put bicycles out
there all a use on that through the
license agreement to the parets and it's
been exceptionally Ben because um Rebel
Sports has certainly increased their um
their amount of bikes that they have
available for rent but they've always
been
using since I've seen it been using Town
property Commerce because they haven't
had another place to put their rental
biks and so this has moved it off of
impeding the sidewalk um onto another
space and I would say I also see in the
summer that people are spending a lot of
time going across the sidewalk
occasionally standing there or a lot of
times standing there with their bikes um
there's still some stuff that happens
that is challenging but it certainly
feels a lot better than blocking
regularly and permanently or at least
through the summer blocking the sidewalk
with bikes having in this
area this a picture is an example of an
area where we have an uh normal
unlicensed use of town property so we
have been seeing some of these in areas
with parklets and without parklets so
here's wor some seating that's not
necessarily directly in the sidewalk but
it's right at the edge of the sidewalk
it's right near
parking kind of per our town code we
state that any obstructions or
improvements in the right way need to be
licensed or permitted um and so you've
see more examples whether it's seating
whether it's
signage other items that we get placed
in the right way by
businesses either haven't been licensing
it or we haven't necessarily been
enforcing
it so there's a few scenarios here um
you know these are kind of coming now
for two reasons one is you know we
talking about we've got some feedback of
you know positive and negative now that
the parklets are about five years old
we're having to do heavier maintenance
to them we're having to rebuild a lot of
them we're budgeting more dollars each
year to kind do a full reconstruction of
several of these so figured it's time to
kind of look at the program and
determine if we want to keep going as we
have been or making any changes to it so
kind of as outline of packet we we show
four options so option one would be
continuing this program with no change
would be the same program of Public
Works tourism in the winter we charge a
fee we license them install them early
summer you take them away in October
keep doing that program allow any
business on Main Street or site streets
of Jason to to install them and can I
add something before so um it would be a
pretty heavy lift to ask Public Works to
also administer the program um it's a
lot so uh our our department actually
does it Jessica dust do has taken the
lead on that so we text we email we call
um to get the license agree first to get
um businesses who may be interested to
find out whether or not they're going to
um participate in the parklet program
but then also to get a license agreement
um to get the fees and then also
Certificate of Insurance and then we
work with um Finance depend out make
sure that their business licenses
current we work with the clerk's office
to make sure um that we understand
whether or not we planning to extend
their liquor license on it we work with
Community Development to make sure that
they have no outstanding
um building permit or other issues so we
we administer that part of the program
and then provide the map to with the
help of Community Development um to
Public Works and Public Works
Lance thank
you um and then we have option two here
so this would be either adding use
restrictions and or increasing fees so
use restrictions would look like you
know one example would
be arlets would only be permitted to say
restaurants or bars and then some of
those other uses showing earlier
wouldn't be allowed that's just one
example kind a use restriction the idea
if that were pursued would be reduce the
number of
parklets could help reduce the amount of
kind of those inactivated parklets that
that are out there and taking up parking
but really not use much the summer uh
kind of the other alternative would be
increasing fees um this could have a
similar effect you know we did a a fe
increases last year didn't see L
production look at larger fee increases
to kind of reduce some of those um
inactivated unused ones as well as to
kind of help um at least reduce the
deficit that we seeing what it's costing
the Town versus
what and then kind of one other item
that was mentioned in the memo is that
currently the sanitation district is
looking if we continue the program they
would charge their own fees on top of
our fees they have you know a new
restaurant gets constructed tap fees
that they charge based on the seating
capacity or the square footage of the
building what they're seeing is this is
creating a semi-permanent increase in
these businesses they're increasing the
water and sewer usage but they didn't
pay for that additional capacity so
they're looking at something that since
these still aren't kind of trly
permanent um they're looking at
something that would be kind of an
annual each year would kind of just be
percentage wouldn't be that full amount
of that top
fee they're looking at doing that the
town could also look at doing kind of a
similar model whether we roll that into
our fees or kind of charge a separate Fe
with it where we're kind of charging a
kind of an annual water tap Fe
essentially for this additional capacity
toist and then option three would be a
business supply Park Li program so this
would look like Public Works would get
rid of all parklets we wouldn't Supply
maintain store any of the parklets and
this option we would just regulate
businesses um to install and maintain
their own so they would um build or
recure their own they would put them out
they would have to store them that we
would have permits that you know could
put restrictions on size and drainage
and different items like that um you
know if we pursued option three we
believe this would probably reduce the
amount of parklets quite a bit just due
to the cost of creating them to find
Space to store them to install
them then we have option four so option
four is that would just be eliminating
the parkl
program these were kind of started
around the pandemic so the option four
would just kind of be going back to a
pre- pandemic condition right away which
just be used for parking Vehicles
Mobility would have commercial uses in
option
so now we have um list of questions for
you B part the program and based on
commercial use in the right away so I
guess the first question is is Council
support of use of town property
for this would be looking generally
arlit some of those examples
like are we just going down the list
list Chris I was going to take your four
questions but now that seems to have
Mort into approximately six or eight
questions I can run through them all if
you want right now I guess the first if
you say no to
the
so way I mean as anyone please Andy
thanks yeah yeah
uh okay okay so
um so yes this was a pandemic thing and
yes it was a prominade uh situation and
then it was beyond the prominade
situation I gotta say that this is an
Incredible use of
space uh it activates our Main Street uh
you know before you take away all the
parklets where is there anywhere for
anyone to sit on Main Street
other than at the coffee shop right like
this is an activation of space uh
partially uh which partially should be
taken on by the town but uh you know
these things cost money and people are
making money with these and so we should
charge accordingly for them whatever it
costs should go onto the businesses if
you want a parklet then you got to pay
the cost for the parklet you know that
that's you know obviously for somebody
like the butter horn no skin off their
back for somebody like uh I don't know
the bookstore you know maybe that costs
a little more but it activates a great
space uh for the bookstore as well
um uh you know I I think no way do you
put this in the hands of businesses as
far as to provide their own talk about
junkie you'll end up with 15 different
crappy parklets all over town uh we
definitely don't need to light them
because we have nothing going on at
night nor do we want uh uh light
pollution going on uh you know
throughout the night is our new
direction right uh so I think can I cut
cut in I'm hearing you support the use
of the Town use of property for whether
it be commercial use or parket is that
correct yes if you want me to end there
I will otherwise I'll keep going I think
we'll have more opportunity right um
anyone else does anyone else not support
the use of town right away and or
parklet usage on Main
Street I don't you don't support it I
don't okay do I should I give a reason
why sure um I think there's a lot of
reasons why I think it makes Main Street
more dangerous
um I'm concerned about ADA access and
the safety of people moving through our
town in a safe way
um I mean I could go on and on but you
know there are places in town there's
several restaurants that already have
patios the Uptown has a rooft deck there
are places in our community that people
can sit outside and eat um Fifth Avenue
has a patio balis and and bread and salt
patio as a to me that's like going into
a capitalist mindset that's a business
advantage that people pay a mortgage for
or they're paying rent to have these
amenities for their business um and I I
think that going back to just a pre
pandemic Main Street you know we have
parking
issues um somebody got a parking ticket
because the sign for three-hour parking
was covered up by a parklet and all the
stuff on the parklet so the people
couldn't even see the signage for
parking and so they got a ticket I think
that all got resolved but I think it man
just going down Main Street it is
dangerous like I I cannot I will not
take my kids down Main Street on a bike
there's no way and so for me it almost
limits my use of taking my family to
Main Street like I have to rely on side
streets um if we're going to be on a
bike
yeah thanks for the inro sorry you have
to go down the side street well I mean
at least we have one but you know what
I'm saying I do I do anyone
else I'm on the BS um I'm adding to as
we consider the conversation that for
the next three
years I70 interchange is going to be
under construction which is going to
create traffic flow differences and also
whenever it is that we decide we're
doing Granite it's going to create
traffic flow difference so I'm just
adding to the complexity of the
conversation yeah I love the activation
of the street it's well used which leads
to it being
popular but it's as we start talking
about investing real dollars to rebuild
what we got effectively for free five
years
ago it's just complicated I'm not sure
where I
support all Bo I have any more but we'll
wait till things that's perfect yeah I'm
supportive and obviously we'll dig in as
we go down the question
to yeah next question should parkes be
made available for Commerce if so should
one of the alternative options that we
just discussed or different option that
wasn't listed replace the
current yes go
back here if there's any other ideas
that you
have discuss this could I maybe help
with this is anyone on option
one or we do need to make a change no
change is not where we want to live is
that right I'm just asking the cool
option four is that where we're at at
least for the majority of the
group no just asking so then we're back
to Chris
helpful two or
three not three cool thanks
Andy I I agree with not three I yeah so
I think we're looking at
two option
two let's thr some stuff
out so let's th are we three then are we
feeling good sorry two
two okay so I think B
easiest way one of the easiest questions
here let's go back to the pros and
cons the parket and
then accentuate the pr and
eliminate so going back to the pros here
we have the increased business
capacity the unique experience we have
the uniform look of all the pars being
the same hybrid the atmosphere we're
just connections Commerce do major
issues
and you know the increased business
capacity
is it's not there because people want to
sit outside so the restaurant's empty
but everybody wants to sit out you know
it's a beautiful day people well we want
to S out we don't have a see out there
okay we're going somewhere else you know
so a lot of that that's is my experience
in the restaurants you know CU people
want to sit outside could it possibly be
a little bit different I think it
depends on the restaurant like butter
kingdom is an example yeah that's I
would say you know and I don't know I
don't know on there's Breakfast you know
it's I've seen it full
inside yeah they they probably do F
their capacity prob okay I think ours
isn't isn't as much yeah you get people
in the bar so you'll get people outside
on the patio and in the bar back of the
restaurants you know so uh it it does
increase some
businesses does it increase like instead
of capacity could we say Advantage
increased business
advantage to make money I mean if you
choose not to get
one never mind that was
and I think that's kind of under
supports Commerce is that yeah even if
it's not increasing capacity maybe it is
increasing Commerce it's a nice
day you definitely get more for outside
so yeah is increasing business because
even before we had the patio I manag
people
outside
so yeah it's a definite
Advantage uh you know whoever utilizes
it well you know especially for the
restaurants you because like you know
for a real estate agent they're just
looking to draw people in for them to
sit for no reason at all and you know
like there it's hard to say an Roi for a
real estate uh company as compared to
the butter horn right the butter horn
packs those things inside and out all
summer
long uh and
you know that's my two
cents easier way some changes would be
increase in fees to cover
expenses that is there support for that
has there been a calculation on what the
true cost on average would be like is it
going to double that that rate is by
10% I mean 14,000 and change versus
19,000 and change for 19,000 and change
are the
expenses you've said and then
14,400 I believe is what the fees were
year this year in terms of who chose we
know what that would cost on average per
park it stayed the same without Chang
well we're showing the total cost is in
the it's 30 some thousand we had I think
39 parklets last year so we'd be looking
at closer to less than this but closer
to $1,000 a parklet on that that so it's
PR significant changed there is
precedent of um you I was looking up
other municipalities and there's ones
that charge a th000 there's something
that charge $2,000 for a park l so there
are other places that charge
significantly more than we are but it
would be change I'll be I'll be quick
with this in my view the town subsidized
it through Co or through after all that
stuff and that's fantastic good thing
town to do now that we're looking at is
maybe a permanent structure at this
point I don't see a reason why taxpayers
to
subsidize for for the business so I
would say those fees need to increase
what the cost is especially given the
heavy
bur do we know what the Sans district is
going to charge they had mentioned
something based on
capacity they haven't determined what
exactly that would be saying some kind
of I think we discuss
I was P I guess by Matt in the s's
district and he was just asking me
personally and I probably you know I'm
going to leave out the details of that
number that he had said they were going
to charge because you know it was in a
passing conversation but it was
significant enough for me to not do it
um based on that but you know I'm not
the butter horn so I don't have you know
I'm not packing my
so I don't think it would be worth it
for me to do it um yeah I think that fee
will be
significant significant enough to sway
your mind I guess just a clarifying
question Chris is when we worked out the
costs did that factor in person hours of
install and ex yes that's our person
labor hours that put some equipment
hours to it puts all the soft and hard
cost
curiosity there but then I'll come back
to like I can't like we have to cover
our costs so I I I believe these have to
have to match whatever we're putting out
for it and going with what where Martin
is like
we right we we have the ability to
charge fees for services that we're
providing now we're not covering the
costs like that I want to cover the
costs I'll just leave it at that
that's fair and then you we'd have to
consider you know higher cost means
there would end up being less parklets
and then the cost changes on the
parklets because we're not having to do
30 of them right it's going to end up
being fewer and and just along of
Elizabeth's lines you know there are a
few businesses for sure like say bread
and salt and Bales you know they pay pay
for two spaces on Main Street they don't
love the parklets I I just thought I'd
throw that out too uh it's not how I
feel about it but some restaurants are
definitely benefiting more than others
that's partially I feel like how you
utilize what you have at your
fingertips well I know like outside the
Fifth Avenue on Main Street they only
have one they have two or three on the
side street
you know one you get one
table it's
not can't get many
more maybe two two tops but usually it's
taking up six people it's one table for
six
people it is one one
part so I'm hearing these should match
the cost of the program I think the
other question should there be use
restrictions as far as what types of
businesses um
per Park
Florida I would say unfortunately for me
it's a no
because I don't think we can pick and
choose like if we're going to offer
public property to be licensed by
business we can't really say you can do
it but you
can't I I would I would say oh sorry I
didn't mean to step on you there
Elizabeth you keep
going that's okay
I with that I I agree in that you know
you would if you got a if you can let
anybody do it then everybody should have
the ability but you can have a standard
I feel like like especially for retail
outlets you can have a standard like no
pallets you know as whatever or no
whatever you know to if you don't want
it to look junky you could definitely
say that it needs to fulfill some sort
of
look and it probably shouldn't block
signage if it's important stuff for
sure I don't I
mean everybody should have the
opportunity to start with and if you
sell clothing inside your store and you
put clothing on your parklet that's what
you sell if you sell shoes and you put
boxes of shoes on your parket that's
what you sell I don't I don't have as
much of a subjective opinion on how
people are how people are marketing
their merchandise or their products on
the parket is something that we can
enforce it's too
subjective how do you feel about a stack
of shoes
versus pretty
umbrellas so I I I think if you if you
have a crappy parklet then you will be
viewed as a crappy
St that's that's capitalism
so that's
okay I don't want to get into design
review I would say any except
for well then that's not
any I would just say so you do want to
restrict I do just not real estate off
um my personal view is was just me I
like vibrant main streets and
communities that have very much of food
and beverage
focus and not a retail Focus I also
understand the difficulty in starting to
pick EG like that
so I guess at this point but then we do
we have to include real estate office
with their two chairs right because they
got plenty of money to pay for the
parket um is there an equity issue there
too with some there a lot going right
the costs associated with you know some
smaller shops May
IFI be there maybe sub sensation on it
obviously I don't think
so I guess I would not have any
restrictions on
it I at the big picture
but I'm
curious resistance to the real estate
office is if some somebody wants to put
a living room on Main
Street Sit down I
know I don't know
I just we have we just have too many Bo
you
know I'd like to cut them down you know
could we look at the challenges
yeah that's a bigger top yeah just kind
of run back through the challenges we
have loss of parking spaces we have the
maintenance needs we talked about having
the the fees match the
expenses you know there's this sidewalk
conflict um them expanding Beyond just
the park lit so I think we'll talk about
that in a minute of where it you know
expands onto kind of the brick paper
area and then also on the sidewalks
there's the mixed use conflict that's
you know you already have kind of
pedestrians Vehicles parking now you're
adding
seating there's the storage of parklets
take some space Public Works Yard the
feedback I think we just kind of covered
this with the uses of you know certain
ones appearing mess you're junky your
passing so when we talk about the use of
sidewalk
um is there potential for an enforcement
on that issue I just
like the access of the sidewalk like is
there a way to protect
that yeah so I think
um go back to the questions here see if
that's done oh sorry no we'll jump into
that you know I think one question to
kind of before that enforcement one is
does council support report um this
would be kind of the the second to last
one the more informal use of town
property without pars so that would be
we have Rebel Sports example you know
there's
ones sea there areas that
necessary that would be question and to
be clear the rebel Sports example is
what they were doing prior to
2021 and so that was using the Seline
for the fleet um and then I'm thinking
about like walking through butter horn
like you it's almost like now you're
only walking through their restaurant
and if you're in a
wheelchair I mean that's an issue the
question really comes down to this and
we thought it was important to roll in
the whole question of first question
being do you want to use Town property
for Commerce so okay you do for parklets
we have an informal use that is
happening have a licensing agreement we
don't have fees we don't have insurance
like that they are just things that are
happening yeah um and so my question is
our question is what would you like to
do with that yeah can can I ask that we
take this smaller question first short
if you have parklets you cannot use the
sidewalk I don't care if you got to
write if you guys put chalk down this is
what you get this is what you don't
because the The Log Jam that's going on
at whether it's butter horn or Pro that
they have their times people that are
using parket are moring into the
sidewalk and the people who are trying
to flow down our main street are H what
about the pap area you based on that
comment would it be nothing on the
sidewalks or the papers just the
parets it's a fair mean it's a good
question I think the paps
be honest but I I hear your distinction
but there just a flow link I'm not sure
I don't have an answer to that very good
question but you have to be enforcing
blow Lane down our
sidewalks and if it's something we're
not able to enforce then I I don't know
if you want to put if you want toig your
Del Bell and you want to put a table
behind the lamp post you know the lamp
posts
hindrance in the paper
area I'm not as wrapped up to with you
though it
just it expands from there I know
wherever when you're like like oh just
the papers and it I mean I included some
of these pictures so you would see that
it it does and I just wanted you to if
you're licensing people and having them
pay fees for use of town property it's
not just it's not really the use of aart
it's the use of town property Hors then
what is your feeling about
this do you want to rather than
inforcement is this something that you
would want to license and then we can
try to figure out how much of that
sidewalk someone could take up with
tables or do we
say year round no more use of
sidewalks we already have for clear so I
understand it correct Vanessa is we have
agreement and license in fees for Rebel
Sports currently Absolut for for their
use of the street what you saw a picture
of we to that how they for that the same
as parklets they actually just keep it
really simple
and you know being with Martin and stuff
and traveling and being places you know
I always when I was on Town Council
before the co had managing Fifth Avenue
we have that
corner you know sidewalk ins side stuff
and I always thought that you know it be
be nice to use that
area because of just being in other
countries and how the outside in the
summer you know stretches out in the
plazas and stuff you know I I like that
so I was trying to get something like
that
before you know and it was the liquor
license it's like okay you got you know
that way you know but uh I like that
vibrant stuff of people sitting down
drinking and food you know but like it's
hard to tell the book store can't have
the restaurant can you know to
me horn and Deli bellies you know being
the ice cream shop and people can't get
through there sometimes too it's a it's
a it's a hassle you know it's not just
butter
horn so I hate to say yeah I I do agree
you know this is very much like a it's a
it's a if you look at other countries
right and you look at Europe they they
do it really well and they do it all the
time and you know they
utilize their public space that way and
it's like if we are just gonna say only
for cars and people walking down the
street you know then I I feel like we're
we are behind the times but this is an
Enforcement issue you you know you can
use x amount of space but if you're in a
wheelchair you have to have access you
got to be able to get through and you
know it's an Enforcement issue I hate to
put it on staff but uh you at some point
that's what it's gonna have to be you
know Kyle Joe are going to need to be
walking down the street saying like you
got to move this stuff out of the way
you know Andor as Andy's saying you you
you tape out your area and you don't get
to across the
line that's just the way it is you know
but uh but a vibrant space needs
activation and uh less cars is something
we've been going for for many many years
and uh I I feel like we're not taking up
too many parking spaces that it's not
even possible to park uh there you go
you know I I got one more thing on that
too because during the time I was on
console and uh I rode my motorcycle over
Hegman pass over to balt and bista they
had them before the pandemic you know
this on Main Street had parklets and the
Sal has St and I'm just like wow that's
amazing you know why can't we do
something like that Risco I think I was
pushing for something like that and that
was before the Pand you know just
getting more vibrant people out you know
drinking
Street you know in that so that was one
thing where I saw it first was in other
towns
result the pic and it feels to me like
this it's settled that parklets are a go
with higher fees potentially some
improvements that you might rely on BL
work staff to work through railings on
the sides all that good stuff um and
knowing the sand District needs to deal
with that I guess I would say to it does
not feel like question of use of town
property in terms of sidewalks it's just
about enforcement it is about do you
want to formalize that if you're if we
have a formalized program to use parking
spaces Town property with license
agreements and fees and insurance and
all of that would you like to move in
the direction of doing the same thing
with side blocks it does feel somewhat
in congruent to be like license this
town space but we don't license this
town space but you need
access right access is always going to
be key I think that's just a given but
it's the are you using Town property
with
access but are you licensing that as
well so what you're ear asking are we
licensing the
Calk part of it yeah can you just get
rid of the parklets and just rent out
the parking spaces and you just put your
stuff right there
Visions then you end sorry if you you
know if you get rid of the parklets and
just let businesses do whatever they
want if they're going to rent it out
then you end up with 20 different junky
looking
things I think to your question thank
you for clarify sort of where we
are there can be a distinction between
winter well between summer and
year because in parket season giving our
businesses the opportunity to have
outdoor
space you know I'm thinking whether it's
again Deli belly or whether it's the dog
bowl dish at the rematch tore yes
they're using the sidewalk do we need to
formalize that kind of stuff when there
really isn't clogged
sidewalk not I'm not looking to I'm
usually the rules guy but but in the
summer my view is different than in the
winter because we're giving people an
alternative to utilize outdoor space and
c and maybe what I'm doing is I'm like
being a little bit of a worst case
scenario thinker right now and that is
parklets go up to $1,000 for 100 square
feet and people are suddenly like I
don't want to do that so I'm just GNA
put my tables on the
sidewalk and and I think that's an
unfortunate sign because we're giving
them an alternative they may not like
that they have to spend money but we're
offering them
space so they can't have it for
free clarify my position that's the
summer clarify my okay you um clarify my
position to make sure it fits into what
you're asking maybe it doesn't um I like
the parklets I don't think people should
be able to use a side walks in the
summer I think they need to be clear for
people for Access and I think that needs
to be forced and if people don't want a
parklet they don't want to rent a parket
they don't get to use the sidewalk
for Commerce just
because so I agree with Liz that the
sidewalk needs to be you know needs to
be as clear as possible people are
always going to be lawyering
around but then I agree with Andy
because of enforcement so I like the
idea of restricting use of Commerce on
the sidewalks in the summer and part
that's
aailable yeah we'll talk winter next
right yeah
winter I think we just enforce it how's
winter we can't clog the street you
can't clog the
sidewalk in the winter there sidewalks
in the winter for
sure oh yeah right I get it we
don't no formalizing again use of
sidewalk Town property in the winter but
you cannot log or block the sidewalk if
you're if put it in a a reader board or
or your table pled the side no you can't
do that even in the winter you don't
have culture form when parket are not
available you can use a certain strip
that can be worked through of
sidewalk
winter I guess for me I just we don't
have to move
[Music]
them so I think just does that fit what
we're talking about pretty much yeah I
mean I think I'm hearing like it would
be good to hear like I hear if you have
a parket in the summer you are not to be
on the sidewalk I hear that I'm not sure
what I'm hearing here if you have a
parket this summer can you be on the
sidewalk at all is that a yes or a no no
I think the consistent is no sidewalk
use period in the summer anytime anytime
you're a little
different anytime
anytime red papers to be
clear yes yeah c can I re real quick
Chris what is uh your
typical uh footage of sidewalk space
like do do the the pavers count as the
six foot of sidewalk and so it makes it
eight feet or like what what is
that so we would generally only count
the sidewalk as kind of the true kind of
ADA space and other papers here um so
kind of it varies on where we're at but
I think it's generally around 8 ft that
we have the sidewalk and then about a
fo so automatically that's the space you
need to get through no matter what and
you can't use any other
space can I I think we I think we're at
parklets only in the
summer as a as a answer portion is that
fair
right inre increase fees yes of course
cover the
costs now the final if you will is
papers use or no papers use is what I'm
hearing that makes
sense
deep ask what what you're I'm looking to
answer the questions you're asking right
now I know I don't necess want to go as
deeper if you don't want to be I mean it
really does I mean it is odd I I think
it's part of a sidewalk and it it is
strange that we would to a certain
degree it feels strange that we would
license some Town property but not
others even depending on the season like
some consistency issues come up for me
and I'm not a huge bureaucrat or rule
follower either it's just has created
some issues and I really do believe in
being fair and being clear with people
if they understand what the expectations
are and rules are I think most people
will follow them most so I mean for me a
really is should all use of town all use
underline including currently informal
use of sidewalks for restaurant seating
and Rental bike displays acire license
agreements Insurance fees as parklets
currently
require the answer may be no I want to
keep it informal like that I don't want
to keep it informal that's the question
I'm against it being a formal also so
let me throw another wrenches sweet so
Fifth Avenue has two tables on the side
street you know on this Fifth Avenue
that we put on the other side of the
fence you know two they sit are they on
top property yeah we're talking about
that we we had it when Deborah was here
says you can't put him out we got a
take because of
lior license sure so so we couldn't we
couldn't even license the space or get
from you it was just like no liquor
license B so we got two on the side and
there's you know nobody really goes down
that sidewalk you know sound like it's
on the main sidewalk but it's still the
side you
know is that considered
M it's
consider I feel like Mr R maybe wants to
feel like I've seen him getting see a
few times do you okay I I I would highly
recommend that any use of public
property for commercial purposes come
with insurance and indemnification of
the town because when someone gets hurt
on public
property 99 out of 100 times the answer
is going to be from town when they make
a claim because they've been injured I'm
sorry we're
immune I'm sorry you can't sue us
period so where are those folks
turn won't be us and if there isn't an
insurance policy you know covering that
area neither likely will the
proprietor's insurance cover it because
it's not part of their defiant premises
for their commercial liability insurance
they don't own
it if there's no paper whatsoever
indicating what right those people have
to be there somebody gets heard on on
the public RightWay there for lack of a
more polite term so they won't have
anyone to turn to can't sue
us the owners insurance company is
probably say
no our policy doesn't cover those
premises so that's some things for you
to think about in terms of whether you
want to formalize the use of public
property that that
I can't businesses even if it's not in
their footprint couldn't they they cover
uh couldn't they get the you know extra
area absolutely yeah no that that's the
point in making them go through the
process and show us that they have
insurance over that area and get a
license from us yes absolutely they can
get
it
yes so if you wanted to use the sidewalk
you have to get insurance that what
where we're at and pay I think we're
yeah we're asking is whether if anyone
wants use Park they have to provide
insurance it's part of the permanent
process so asking if someone wanted to
use an area that's not a par l in the
right way do we allow that and if so I
think we would permit it or ring would
we then permit it the same way as we do
with parklets and that would requ but
what we've heard so far is no use of Cs
yeah so that means we're not going to
license use
ofs okay I'm
sorry including brick I'm
sorry brick
because that's where the bikes are
sitting right on the bricks the bikes
occasional tall tables and and you know
stuff like that the The Sandwich
Board fur kind of
complicated nonar uses that aren't in
the sidewalks the rebel sports for
example we've been permitting them to be
in the parking um don't use a parklet so
would we keep allowing that and would we
put use restrictions if someone else
wanted to use you know parking area but
no Park someone said I want put tables
in
parking the other uses would be do we
want to um you know put restrictions
around that and then permit it as we
have doing with sports and our thinking
has been th sport since the very
beginning is parklets would actually
inhibit their ability to store as many
bikes so it's practical but it's also
you're not which is why we're looking at
some side railings for parklets people
aren't hanging out on their bike in that
roped off area it's a temporary kind of
like oh I'm gonna grab my bike and I'm
gonna go whereas people who are seated
one they need you know they obviously
need adaa access as well from the
sidewalk um onto the restaurant seating
area and we want to we want to provide
them with a certain sense of Safety and
Security away from traffic so having
them just on the road with nothing to
inhibit parallel Parker going a little
crazy um is a little bit
scary that parallel parking I've seen it
it okay
okay I knew this would be a hard one so
are we there like
just no use of sidewalks are we there
with Rebel sports that that
is not gonna start putting restaurant
seating
roads very practical and saf it's a
special exception okay so to be very
clear then pavers we are considering
part of the sidewalk it's going to be a
fairly large change you might hear some
people well I mean
I mean we don't
have I would like the I would like it to
include the pavers only because of ADA
and like there's some parts on the
sidewalk depending on the who's doing a
parklet where you can't even pass
somebody you know if you're carrying a
shopping bag it's so tight and narrow it
just I don't
know if you decided to license part of
it and say Hey you can license the
papers we could very clearly tell people
where they can be just to heads up
but originally when I said calks y I'm
talking about
papers okay no
big objection if we
do Liz
has but to me sidewalks were
sidewalks so I think we answered a few
of the questions and then we're on to
this this last one and and again I'll
ask the
room can we agree that if we're going
I'm saying if we're going to allow the
paper usage are we going to license it I
would say yes I mean definitely when
there is
notk agree that's what exactly what I'm
getting tricky
so opt out of a parklet but license the
paper that's why I say what parklets are
available that's
a you so but I feel like it's worst case
scenario that everybody's going to do
just that but if somebody doesn't have a
parklet and they're using the papers and
then down the street there's somebody
with a parket they're going to use the
papers too no you can't use the pap if
you have during parket season you but if
you don't have
yeah how wide are the papers that's that
is the open question you're you're
you're both articulating the open to two
sides of the open question I would say
no pavers just keep it clean and simple
carets sidewalkers in the sidewalk it's
getting
complicated I'd agree with
that i' like
clarification just said it
okay then they're
saying par season you cannot use the
papers that's what that's what
and well Andy and Elizabeth are saying
no pavers anytime to be liced your round
that's correct
I mean that keeps it clear you're you're
suggesting if it's associated with the
paret the pavers in front of it between
there and the sidewalk can be
licensed I think what he was suggesting
no I was suggesting is if during
Park favers are
off okay they're no longer an option if
you want to expand your business bu into
a parklet you're welcome to but the
payol buiness non parklet
season if you want to use the P area you
can but it comes with a license that's
I'm not advocating for it I that's what
I thought we basically what I hear then
is summer is conducive to parklets as
Council decided in
2023 boom but they're not available
during the winter so you're making a
different license area available which
is the pavers that's what I'm hearing
but from one person so I'm not saying
I'm not sure I love the idea
either the only the only Nuance to that
that I would add to make it more
complicated is we are often piling snow
on the papers before we get rid of it so
I don't think in the winter we can
license the paving paper because we need
to clear it that's a great point
and for the most part I know Rebel in
the winter is really only using the area
behind the sidewalk on their property
like they're not using the pavers
they're not using the
sidewalk that's about the flying crane
they put some clothes racks out of their
door is
that probably property because it goes
in yeah maybe
oner that's why I said you'll hear from
people
so no use of sidewalks it is very clear
I would say to you it is very clear it
says that now use
to so where are we
at you're going to sidewalks or papers
yes that's what I'm
hear live with the
park sidewalk to safe it's going to take
a little time for us to um Outreach to
those businesses and have these
conversations but they will be had in
writing and verbally so look for some
changes I would say over the next
month probably as you surveyed in your
mind Main Street in the winter you can
probably tell who you're going to hear
about
yes
okay if I may in there can we please use
some
tact when going it's not just you can't
use this anymore it's you know it's due
to safety concerns and everything else
right thank
you try not to be as harsh as
usual as
we've 15 minutes everybody thank you
very
much you know in
comparison I wish that deed restrict
[Laughter]
easy
was
e
for
e e
I'm just trying to make sure Andy can
hear
us oh
awesome Mr Mayor you're on mic and
recording whenever you'd like thank
you hi everybody it is 7:03 and it's
time to start the regular meeting of The
Frisco Town Council for January 14
2025 and with that we'll go with a roll
call Alan here in here Aron here script
check Adrian here Kibby here and the
Leno is absent and held
here he said here but I didn't hear him
very well so I'm gonna make sure these
are hello hey Andy can you say here one
more time here can you hear
me I am unmuted hang on just one sec
hello here can you hear me okay hang on
just one sec we're not able to hear you
Andy I can see that you're
talking
awesome beam of the
night Andy can you unplug your mic and
plug it back in
no testing one twoo
testing one two three anybody can hear
thanks everyone for coming while we work
through the technical difficulties
standby am
unmuted that just me
testing one
two everything works on my
side
awesome can can you hear me testing one
too and I didn't know I had the paper on
oh
excellent not report to the shelter
what's this on the outside oh it's a
paper and I ate a bunch of it
you tell me you're testing one
too I appreciate everyone online can
hear me but no one in Chambers
Canen between you guys between might it
was a year and a half before I ever met
anybody right
person one more time hello testing one
two thank you can hear you thank you so
much everyone's present except blenco is
absent yes I'm here thank you perfect
thanks Andy thank you
Stacy uh with that we completed our roll
call let's move into public
comment and we just get through this
people making public comment must State
their name and physical address for the
record be topic specific and limit
comments to three minutes or less no
council action will be taken on public
comments and at Council meetings Council
takes public comments under advisement
and if a council Andor staff response is
deemed necessary or appropriate the
individual making the comment will
receive a formal response from the town
at a later date it is recommended to
sign in at the welcome desk at each
meeting and include contact information
with that do we have any public comment
in the room
uh good evening Mr Mayor and members of
the Town Council my name is Matt aan
this is my wife Natalie Aman uh we live
in Englewood Colorado 3254 South banic
Street uh tonight we're here to speak um
and seek your support and collaboration
to bring wildart Sona company to the
town of Frisco we understand the Town
Council has concerns about operating on
town-owned land and our goal tonight is
to express our commitment to finding a
solution that work for everyone whether
through a specially use permit or other
viable option we believe wildart sonuna
company can be an asset to Frisco so
wildart sauna is more than a business to
us it's a vision that has been inspired
by our love for sauna culture and the
healing um benefits that comes with that
so sonas have been cherished for
centuries offering physical benefits
such as improved circulation um Muscle
Recovery immune Health while also
providing a space for peace mental
Clarity and emot
wellbeing um so I kind of want to
briefly paint a picture of what our
experience would look like so you would
um arrive to wildart sauna we're leaving
our phones behind and you're going to
step into the warmth of our sauna during
our lightly guided session we are going
to be explaining how to expose yourself
to the Heat and the Cold Mountain Air to
get the most benefit from the thermal
cycle um we're also fostering an
environment to enjoy and embrace the
beauty of Frisco and after your sauna
session we welcome you to stay and
rehydrate and relax before going back to
your day um our goal is to commit to
offer a wellness experience that's
unique to Frisco and complements the
lifestyle and creates meaningful moments
to those who use it beyond the emotional
and cultural ties our proposal aligns
strongly with the town of Frisco's
strategic plan as outlined in goal B do5
uh we are promoting Recreation wellness
and sustainability while fostering
economic growth we aim to provide an AM
that has seen growing demand Nationwide
place for both seasonal uh visitors as
well as year-round residents uh to enjoy
by partnering with the town wildart Sona
company will enhance Frisco's unique
charm support the local economy enrich
recreational offerings and thoughtfully
contribute to the community environment
that makes the town of Frisco so special
we deeply appreciate the Town Council
and Frisco's dedicated staff and the
leadership for their guidance and
support and helping us reach this point
uh the assistance that we've received
from the marina the Community
Development Public Works and finance
departments has been invaluable and we
look forward to continuing this
partnership as we work together to
achieve our goal thank you great thank
you
guys your public comments tonight I want
to inform everyone online and in the
room that we are not using our three
minute timers tonight because of the
number of comments we may be
anticipating so we're going to be
running that manually I will will be
given
uh we're out of time sign and I'll
engage with you guys as we go forward so
thanks for everyone's respect on the
front side of that with that any other
public
comments hello my name is Alex Beach uh
408 Second Avenue here in Frisco for
three more months now um sat through the
work session with you guys uh I've
emailed all of everyone on Council uh as
well as the town manager and the housing
staff some some concerns that I had on
the staff report and draft that was
discussed uh a couple of things that I
wanted to speak about here at the public
forum tonight um one is yes we've talked
a little bit about you guys talked a
little bit about waiting uh the lottery
under the new restricted housing
Covenant a little bit for longtime
residents um I don't believe that it's
enough I've been in lotteries with 400
people um so two or three extra lottery
entries when there's 400 people in a
lottery isn't going to substantially
increase the odds for for people that
have been here a long time um also one
of the really important things I think
that still needs to be kept open we
wasn't discussed at this meeting I'm
sure it's going to be discussed at the
next one is uh the seller being able to
choose their buyer um I think that is an
important part uh of our housing program
here in
Frisco um whether it's you know an
employer wanting to sell to an employee
uh you know or a friend selling to a
friend we shouldn't be limiting that
opportunity
um I also just want to take a quick
survey people in the room who here lives
in a deed restricted
unit including two members of council
who are here I believe uh Liz and Rick
you guys are ined restricted and who
here had to win a lottery to occupy that
deed restricted
unit nobody okay and I believe you two
didn't have to win a lottery either to
get your unit uh so under the current
proposal that you guys are planning
nobody in this room would occupy their
destricted
right everyone here got their unit
because someone chose to sell it to them
whether it was a friend whether it was a
friend of a friend through the community
ties that they've made from living in
this community for a long time I think
eliminating that opportunity is
completely ruining uh long-term
residents ability to make connections in
this community for people to have
property rights to sell their property
to a friend or to an employer um and I
think that's a very important aspect
that we need to keep open um I also want
to take the little bit of time that I
have left I know we're going to be
having a vacancy on the Town Council
here coming up um I think it's time that
we have someone on Council who like I
know a number of you have moved here and
you know struggled and lived the skum
life but you're all past that now we
need somebody here who is working
multiple jobs who has multiple roommates
who is struggling to survive in this
County so I want to throw my hat in the
ring for the open Town Council seat um
and I think it's important that our
demographic is represented here in
Frisco because we are a large
uh conglomerate of people in this
community that whose voices are not
often heard thank you
thanks Dave Sherman address local
address here 740 medal Creek Drive Unit
D and we all uh my wife and I also own a
commercial property down town here I
don't know if you need that address but
um I'm here to support people like Alex
are long-term residents that are
struggling to find a a permanent home
here in town and they'd like to stay
here we all know people that have left
the community because they cannot afford
to own a home here and they want to move
on with their life so I um I do like the
idea of giving waiting a heavier waiting
to folks that have been here for 5 10 15
20 years I don't know how you want to
stagger it five years um those people
most of
them uh a lot of them that I know are
embedded in the community they've got
multiple jobs uh some of them are
managers or owners or Partners in
businesses and we'd like to keep them in
the community and I know they're going
to leave if they if they can't if they
can't find a a home um second um I like
the idea of allowing the
owner of a deed restricted home or
whatever to choose their buyer because I
I believe that some of those folks maybe
if you're an owner in a business and
you've got a strong manager or an upand
cominging uh employee that could be a
partner um somebody that manages that
business when you're away from the
community an incentive to keep them here
in the
town
um and then I'd also like to see the
barbecue Festival come back and the
fireworks at the 4th of July do I have
any time
left thank
you any other public comments in
chamber all right hi my name is Sarah I
live at 539 Granite Street here in
Brisco I am here because I believe that
deed restricted homes belong to those
who work in the county I have reviewed
the proposed changes in the New Covenant
and I believe two of those changes do
not support housing the workforce of
Frisco first the town is proposing a
change to the work requirement to
qualify for deed restriction the New
Covenant would require that a home owner
to work in the county only at the time
of purchase therefore someone could work
here for a season purchase a Dr quit
their job and afterwards only be
required to occupy their home once every
90 days potentially making their deed
restricted home into a second home there
is no oversight or work requirement
after the initial initial purchase I
asked the board is the purpose of dued
restriction the only affordable housing
in Frisco to give more second homes to
people who have no longer work here I'd
say affordable housing should go to
those who work here I was shocked to see
this sentiment removed from the purpose
statement for a Dr the statement that
was removed read and I quote to help
establish and preserve a supply of
moderately priced housing to help meet
the needs of the local employed
residents of seit County I ask the
council again what is the point of
affordable housing if not to how th
house those who work here and cannot
afford to buy a home in market value the
Second Challenge I have is to the method
of resale for a deed restriction the new
amendment requires that all resales go
through a lottery or system removing the
current options for locals who live here
for quite some time and meet the
qualifications to purchase a home
through a friend or application process
this creates problems through the
arbitrary nature of the lottery
system let's say a destricted homeowner
has had a renter for many years the
renter loves their home and has
maintained and cherished it for some
time the homeowner decides to move and
sell the previous Covenant allows the
homeowner the option to sell to that
tenant under the New Covenant with the
mandatory Lottery the tenant would have
a 1% chance at best to win the right to
buy their home if the renter is unable
to win their home they would be forced
to vacate search for a rare affordable
rental rate without without finding such
a place they too may be forced to leave
the county I asked the councel how is UN
housing someone who works in the county
a good thing especially considering the
person buying Under the New Covenant
isn't even required to work here after
initial purchase why is removing the
owner's right to choose who to sell to a
good thing any normal homeover has that
right if I ever got lucky enough to own
a Dr and I wanted to move or retire
elsewhere I'd love to sell my home to a
friend someone who could cherish this
place like I have
or I would take offers through
application I love the opportunity to
sell to someone with an amazing story
who works here and has been trying to
live here in conclusion I believe deed
restriction with a job requirement after
purchase allows people who work here the
ability to live here I also believe Dr
homeowners should have the right to
choose who to sell to I believe that the
only affordable housing in Frisco should
go to those who work here that way they
can live here too thank you for your
time
more public
comment um hi my name is Daren I live at
539 Grand Street and I've been living
and working in Sumit County for eight
years uh I bought a DED restrict home in
2021 um I was able to purchase my home
through an application to the owner in
which I wrote a letter explaining my
story
I'm going to read a part of that letter
to you right now um when I was a kid I
fell in love with skiing at Copper
Mountain in a middle school journal
entry I asked myself I wonder what type
of degree you need to be a ski
instructor cool job um I love the
mountains after graduating college I
made the decision to pursue my passion
and I've been teaching ski a copper ever
since um I'm so lucky to be able to be
living my childhood dream and in moving
to Sumit County to pursue that dream I
found a place that feels like home
living in Summit year round these last
few years has given me a community of
people who love the outdoors as much as
I do and I hope to grow my roots in
Summit County for many years to come
that's my letter under the proposed
changes to the new restrictive covenant
my story would have not have mattered
and I would not be here
today I firmly believe that homeowners
should have the right to choose who to
sell their homes to the lottery is an
arbitrary system and to require a
homeowner to enter their home into a
lottery means that the actual people who
live and work in the county who build
relationships and
community and who deserve to have their
story heard are Whittle down to just a
number in conclusion I am limiting or I
am against limiting homeowners resale
options to just the lottery I'd like
more stories like mine to be heard thank
you for your
time public comment in the room
I'll just do a quick one um my name is
Mary
Sherman uh We've owned uh property in
the lagoon since the early 90s and in
the last few years we've bought property
on Main Street uh my business has um
worked with other businesses in the
county mine is in wheat rdge but I've
been fortunate enough to work with u
businesses up here in the county so I
feel like we have some Roots here you
know we spend my husband and I spend a
lot of time socially in Frisco at
different businesses here and we get to
know these people and they are good
people and everything they're saying I'm
not going to
repeat I fully
support I was baffled to find out that
it takes a lottery for them to get the
ability to buy property here
so I support them great thanks thanks
for all you
do public comment in
Chambers any more online
Stacy don't see any if you're online you
could raise your hand on
Zoom I'm seeing none seeing none okay
with that we're going to move on to
Mayor and Council
comments Andy you have any comments I
caught you with the
drink I'd just like to say thank you for
everyone showing up and and uh speaking
your mind and I everything gets taken
under consideration thank you thanks
Andy anyone
else I just like the second Andy's
comments I really appreciate when people
show up for public comment it's a very
important part of the process of thank
you all for being
here
great I want to thank staff for working
through the holidays it was very busy
the Tubing Hill has got six lanes open
and our staffing numbers are looking
really well we've had uh good responses
from our visitors and our locals alike
who've been enjoying the Tubing Hill in
the Nordic Center and I know that Public
Works is working really hard to keep the
streets clear so thank you for everyone
working the long hours and early
mornings and again I'll Echo the other
council members comments it really is
appreciated when folks come and speak to
us here at our meetings and we again do
take everything under consideration so
thank you with that we're g to move over
to staff
updates okay I've got a few tonight um
first of all um there is a Colorado
Association of ski towns meeting coming
up um in Breen Ridge it's the it's the
evening of the 29th through the 31st of
January um really the business uh part
of that meeting is all going to happen
on the
30th um so I will be in my individual
meetings with you uh as the council um
over the next couple of weeks I'll
review the agenda with you we'll be
sending out some information um it would
be uh I I'll be attending the the most
of the meeting uh but it'd be nice if we
can get some good uh Frisco
participation in that since it's so
close but I know there's other
obligations that the council has as well
um we have a
um um a few things coming up uh with the
town uh most immediately is eat ski and
be Mary and I know that uh Vanessa has
already been talking to you about that
on the 25th um and we have some other
events uh coming closely after that
which we'll announce as they come along
and you'll see in uh some of the
communications from the town but also um
we have the uh winter employee
celebration uh next week uh starting at
4:00 on Wednesday the 22nd of course you
are all uh encouraged and invited to
come um fad you're encouraged invited to
to come um and and have a a nice meal
and visit with everybody um as we as we
do that um the last thing I've got is
that um we had a a mayor and manager
meeting last week um that had a very
very interesting uh conversation teed up
um and some briefings um from our local
law enforcement uh
leadership um in in the concern around
uh change in federal Administration and
some of the uh things we've heard about
what's going to happen with immigration
with border security those types of
things and uh the the group the group
that uh met with us um
it was very enlightening to hear how
things are already handled from a law
enforcement perspective in relation to
um uh ice for example um and and how
they operate in the in the states here
uh that they that they operate out of um
we have a local ice office in Denver
they cover both Colorado and and
Wyoming um and they've got about 140
officers that operate out of that office
um
and what some of the things that the the
law enforcement leadership heard from
from Ice leadership um kind of points
towards what we can expect from the
federal level immediately now there is
going to be a whole lot of rhic um and
talk of what's going to happen across
the country but from the practice
practical standpoint of our local law
enforcement and these and these federal
law enforcement
agencies the the what what our folks
heard was that there's no more resources
coming for
enforcement um meaning that they're not
seeing anything that tells them that
there's going to be a flood of officers
heading into Colorado to cover Colorado
and Wyoming um that doesn't mean things
can't change but the current time this
is what they understand they also got
briefed that they were they are they
have been and continue to be completely
maxed out with things that happen in the
major urban area of Denver they have
only been in Summit County for an
enforcement activity once in the last
five
years
so not that we should uh not be wary uh
and paying attention um but there's
really nothing that we that that group
of people sees as changing at this point
um and I I know that's not going to
lower anybody's
anxiety um but it was it was some of the
questions that were being asked that
Drew some of this stuff out um I I think
the other thing that that we learned
from our our law enforcement folks
was there is there is nothing about
somebody's immigration
status that our law enforcement folks
are interested in they don't ask the
question they don't um there's no
reports that they file that that state
that they deal with criminal
activity and the only time that anybody
is going to be noticed is if they're
committing a crime they get
fingerprinted and their fingerprints go
into the federal database that everybody
sees um and if that
fingerprint turns out that they have
warrants somewhere else for other
criminal
activity that's what
triggers enforcement activity at the
federal
level um so so take what you will from
that but
um there is there is there's no threats
of of federal funds being withdrawn for
non-cooperation or anything like that
right now um but we're gonna I mean as
people interested in in what happens to
folks that live and work in sub Summit
County I think we're going to continue
to stay vigilant on this um our law
enforcement folks are going to stay
current with what's happening at the
federal level
um and uh you know we should probably
just be having individual conversations
with folks um or groups that are
concerned and if if we can get them
hooked up with people that really know
what's going on like our chief like the
sheriff um they are very willing to have
conversations with them about that um we
know that there's anxiety about law
enforcement because of folks experience
with law enforcement from the country
that they come from um that doesn't mean
our law enforcement handles things the
same
way that's what I've got great
thanks next item of business this
evening is going to be a
proclamation grab some items here
can you join me at
the
hi I'm Rick to meet you we're going to
get down to our uh Proclamation you
ready to go I am totally a
service I'll be the one shaking and
quivering voice as I read it okay
to of Frisco Proclamation
25-01 Charlotte Clark is recognized as
Frisco's finest whereas when Charlotte
Clark moved to fris in 1994 she brought
her passion and knowledge from a career
at College as a college professor to our
community leading tours on plant life
history and Junior archaeology to the
public for the following for for the
following decades and and whereas in
1990s Charlotte Clark interviewed and
hiked with the last generation of The
Frisco
ists
frises Frisco sites to mine and Ranch
dur who mined and Ranch during the 1930s
documenting Mining and cabin locations
and recording numerous stories in
history that would have otherwise been
lost forever and whereas throughout her
involvement with the frisco historic
Society Charlotte Clark has acted as
secretary along with associating and
preserving dozens of artifacts donated
to the museum and whereas as of January
7th 2023 Charlotte Clark gifted the
frisco Historic Park and museum in the
town of Frisco the rights to her Field
Guide the minds of Frisco and beyond for
the frisco Historic Park in museum to
update and publish for the good of the
community this booklet was was
originally printed in 2004 and in the
following years became a staple to the
historic resources that lie within and
around Frisco a couple
copies whereas Charlotte Clark continues
to volunteer her time and commun to the
community recently retiring from her
role on the board the friends of the
Dylan ranger district volunteering at
the community and Senior Center and
Hospital making her wealth of knowledge
and resource EAS accessible to the
frisco Historic Park and Museum and
whole Community now therefore Charlotte
Clark is hereby proclam to be Frisco's
finest dated this day the 14th day of
January
2025 congratulations
thank overwhelmed really um it's been a
joy to move here on this spur the moment
because I thought I'd found paradise and
I still love this little town and I hope
it stays you know like it is friendly
and kind of small no high high buildings
it's a lovely place to live and I have
the wonderful place to live in bills
Ranch that I actually have moose on my
deck regularly and I still love being
here in this area because of all the
friendly people and the small town that
you can actually get to know thank you
so much
thank
you all right thanks everybody
and that our next item of business this
evening will be considering the consent
agenda and perhaps a motion Mr Mayor I
move we approve the consent agenda
second we have a motion in a second
please call the
question yes
yes ELD yeso is absent Kibby yes SC
check Adrian yes
got it thanks Stacey the motion is
passed we're going to move on to new
business our first item of new business
this evening is an announcement I have
for the room and for Council that we
have received a resignation from uh Lisa
hinko from her position here on Town
Council um that's been shared with the
town attorney and the town manager and
with that we're going to be uh moving
forward with a process to fill that
vacant position
um our next steps for this are going to
be uh per Town Charter we have the
ability to run an election we have the
ability to appoint someone they all must
happen 45 days today so with that in
mind the council had had a retreat uh
last week and we wanted we made a
decision to go forward with an
appointment and with that staff will be
coming forward with a timeline of
what sweet is ready to do her
job keep going that was great
that I'm gonna be quiet and turn it over
to Stacy thank you
Tom no um thank you Mr Mayor and Council
I hope you don't mind that I'm just
sitting for this one um just because we
are going to be here for a little bit
just to discuss so um Frisco's home Rule
Charter uh actually like uh Mr Mayer
just said um definitely stipulate what
your options are here you can either um
direct me to go ahead with legal process
um surrounding conducting a special
election and all that would appear on
that ballot would be um you know we
anybody who was certified to the ballot
for this one uh vacant
seat um or the other option is for you
all to Simply conduct a an appointment
process um but as the mayor just told
you all you have 45 days to direct me to
do the election or you have that 45 day
window to indeed go through this process
and make your selection and so um that's
my first question for you this evening
that um you know we just need to
establish in on the record um this
evening is um does is there anyone here
that uh would like to direct me to
conduct a special election if so we'll
need to talk about
it gotcha anyone
[Music]
here okay we agreed on the retreat yeah
right we just have to say it out public
and affirm that um so it sounds like we
are going to go ahead with an
appointment process so we need to talk
about what that looks like um in next
steps so that staff can prepare this for
you um here are some yes and no
questions that we have prepared for you
just to keep things as straightforward
as possible um the first yes or no
question is would you like a letter of
interest from uh folks who are
interested in uh running for the
position yes or no you think that's an
important piece yes I'm hearing all
yeses Stacy can a point of clarification
right for a regularly scheduled election
it's packet pickup and um petition
correct yeah it's it's called a
candidate affidavit um that would
suffice with regard to a letter of
interest
here interest just somebody saying I am
interested in applying for the
appointment or something to that effect
okay the one lineer yeah exact it
doesn't need to be much more than that
um then yes the next yes or no question
as well and um council member held I
know you're online as well I want to
make sure you have the opportunity to
pipe as well um then we would have an
application um this General application
what we would like to do is um Host this
online just to reduce our paper and just
keep things you know expedient if there
was someone that was insistent upon
using a paper application we could
absolutely print that for someone in
order to uh make sure that there's
Equitable access to this but um it would
be on mainly online and it would contain
uh general questions regarding ing you
know how long have you lived here what's
your in why are you interested in
becoming on Town Council but I'm also
open uh here this evening to you know if
there's any really important and crucial
points that you would like to make sure
that this
application um you know asks and
solicits for from these
folks any direction for Stacy or go with
what plan she's been working on we also
have a question already queued up for
like Community things like Community
involvement or professional experience
that these people would feel would help
them on Town
Council if that helps that helps and
then we would need to make sure
obviously that they reside in the Brisco
Town limits and that they're of age and
things like that those will be uh
questions of application as
well okay and then council member held I
just want to make sure check in with
you any additional
comments no additional comments I have
faith that you'll bring forward a good
process for us to choose okay than you
just wanted to make sure you felt
included um so the uh last portion here
for you all to decide um is would you
like for there to be this element of a
petition now um Community uh candidate
petitions uh nomination petitions
they're called are generally used when
there's Municipal elections you all know
this because that's what you all went
through in order to access the ballot as
a candidate during uh the last uh
regular municipal election that got you
here and so um this is something that
you all have kind of mold around and I
just wanted to make sure if you'd like
to move forward with this component um
you know setting a number of signatures
you know it's 25 uh for a regular
municipal election that's what you all
had to get of registered Frisco
electors um you know of note um
generally you can only sign as a a
Frisco uh resident and registered
elector you can only sign the number of
petitions for the number of seats
available um and so in this case if we
would be consistent with that uh Frisco
registered electors would only be able
to sign one person's petition um and I
of course cross check that and as
petitions come in I would take the first
signature on the first petition uh from
that person and so is that something
that would you like to move forward with
a petition if so I do have a kind of a
timeline that we could advertise to the
public to make sure that it's clear or
would you rather just do letters of
Interest application process uh alone up
to you
all I'm interested in uh pursuing a
petition I like the
idea okay sure
petition Andy they're all in the room uh
agreeing with you as well so it sounds
like that's uh unanimous so thank you
for that um is 25 uh your number or
would you like to set a different uh
minimum number Stacy is 25 yeah stand I
feel it should just follow P keep it
consistent okay all right
um so your potential time frame and I'll
go into this in a little with actual
dates uh on the next slide um but your
potential time frame of what you're
looking at here in order to make sure
that you're making your selection within
that 45-day window is you would uh
conduct interviews uh publicly at your
early February meeting then you would uh
make your decision and announcement at
the late February meeting which would
get us in time for that 45 days and then
uh we would swear in the new council
member and and they would actually serve
and sit at their first meeting which
would be the early March meeting and so
here's a little bit better more detailed
of what that looks like um and I can
actually edit this slide or tweak things
as well if if you all don't like any of
this but um so right now working from
today okay we've accepted and
acknowledged that uh council member
heleno is indeed uh resigning and we're
getting direction today on the vacancy
process as of tomorrow by 10:00 a.m. I
can absolutely have uh you know
informational packets available at the
front desk of town hall and we can have
the form up on the website as
well um I would appreciate the 10: am
and not 8 am just I have a couple hours
to get all this done for you all but um
I'm optimistic that we can get this done
um we also would need time to make sure
that we can uh team up with our
Communications folks and make sure we
can get the word out um in all the ways
possible um so feu 5th that would bring
us to um so that's about a 3- week
timeline for folks potentially to grab
their packets grab their petition
template and go out there and solicit
for
signatures um so February 5th is what we
were kind of proposing as a due date do
you all feel like that's a sufficient
amount of time in order to gather up the
25 signatures that you designated are
needed I think it puts window I mean
it's tight window
yeah I'm looking at it backwards where
February 11th you want us to be educated
on the
candidates so this is going to give us
four or five days that we really don't
have the ability to stretch that fifth
sixth seventh cure period much later or
else it's going to be really hard for us
to have time to look at you also be
conducting interviews at the February
11th meeting and order to get the
candidates get to know the candidates
even more me it's not a lot of time but
none of this is a lot of time so yeah
the only way you could stretch the
middle out at all is if you conducted
interviews and made your selection on
the 25th which would which gives you
about a week and a half play in the
middle there but it's kind of a decision
do you want interviews and then two
weeks to decide who it's going be or or
do you want to do it all in one
meeting no no okay I have I have one
sets now have an opinion that's too much
to do in one meeting yep
okay council member H do you have any
input I just have a question what if uh
someone comes to us for a signature
individually are we allowed to sign a
petition yes
absolutely okay
I think the timeline is fine other than
being uh tight you know I think a week
is is fine for us to uh decide hopefully
we don't have 50 people to choose
from thank you so just to keep moving
forward just so you can kind of see how
this is all playing out um and we can
eliminate this if you want if you do not
want to allow people to cure their
petition you don't have to um but I was
just thinking from a consistency point
of view because when someone is um you
know soliciting for signatures to
certify uh to the ballot uh typically
during an election they do have the
opportunity to cure in other words let's
say they got 26 signatures but three of
those folks were actually not on the
voter roles for Frisco maybe they live
in Bill's Ranch maybe they forgot to
register vote whatever the case may be
um that person would hear from me and I
would let them know hey need to grab
this many more signatures in order to
and then they would have a basically a
second chance if you will to resubmit
and get them over that line um so we are
thinking Thursday February 6th and Feb
uh excuse me Friday the 7th because
you're actually your packet for the 11th
has to go out on Friday the 7th so um
we're you know so I need to make sure I
include only the folks that qualify in
your packet um so that's the the story
behind the February 6th and 7th that
quick quick cure period is kind of
necessary it's only fair
okay all right sounds like everybody's
thumbs up um so February 11th that's
your first regular meeting that you have
in the month of February that is where
we will absolutely slate for you on your
agenda that you will review the
applications and conduct uh interviews
for the folks that are interested
um and you know we'll help you we'll
help make sure that these folks
understand that they need to be here and
um be ready for that um we can also help
you all come up with a specific list of
questions things like that when the time
comes um February 25th so this is your
uh that later regular meeting um the
February 28th is actually your 45 day
cut off here so February 25th is that
last regular meeting within the 45 days
stipulated by the charter and this is
where you would announce the selected
candidate you you would have two weeks
to kind of mul things over um March 11th
is where this person would be sworn in
um and they would actually sit and begin
their service alongside you as uh the
newest Frisco Town council member of
note uh this uh person if they are
interested in continuing this service
would have to rerun at the next uh
regular municipal election
which is in um the spring of 2026 the
first Tuesday in April of
2026 which would be true of an
appointment for an
election
only any blaring concerns right now with
this this we are going to go off your
direction tonight and really get a move
on this
and is there a v plan as well we don't
necessarily have a plan other then we
know we have a wonderful Communications
team that um we've definitely already
communicated and said this is coming
down the pike and um they're ready to to
T I don't want to speak on their behalf
but I think they're more than able and
willing to
help com please uh Stacy I want to thank
you your team and all the staff that are
really hustling to get something done so
quickly to make sure we're complying
with Charter so it's it's pce fast right
there thank you
absolutely thank
you I also want to say in in the off
chance that Lisa is listening or ever
listens to this meeting um she and I
definitely did not agree on everything
uh but she was great to serve with so
you know these are Big Sho big shoes
wonderful shoes responsible shoes to
fill um so I look forward to taking on
the responsibility but I want her to if
anybody speaks with her um as she's
progressing with her life choices
um that we we I send her my
best great and to follow that up I have
been speaking with her I will speak with
her again thank you Andy um I wanted to
acknowledge staff's organization to put
this together for us and have a timeline
figured out have anticipated a number of
questions that we've already had that
you answered before we got a chance to
ask so thank you for that and then
through my conversations with Lisa I
wanted to share that Lisa's had a lot of
things going on in her life for the last
several months and I want everyone to
understand that this decision to resign
is up there with the rest of her
different life challenges that she's had
um in the last few months and most
importantly while she values the
relationship she's created with our
group she couldn't be more happy she you
guys know she was a former teacher her
experiences with our staff over her time
um not only as a business owner but as a
council member is something she'll is
she can't pay us back um she really
appreciates the relationships and how
kind and thoughtful that staff has been
with her on boarding and through her
work in the town over the last several
years so thanks to everyone from
L anything else on this one I don't have
anything else if you don't I don't okay
um thank
you so with that no further action to be
taken on new business we're going to
move on to old business which is agenda
item number three a second reading of
ordinance 24-11 an ordinance amending
chapters 10 and 20 of the code of
ordinances of the town of Frisco
Colorado concerning respectfully the
towns council members and
mayor and Town's elections and the
change to deadline for the filling of an
a filing of an Affidavit of intent to be
a writing candidate for for Municipal
elections and to revise the procedure
for cancelling an election in in order
to be consistent with the Colorado
statutes I didn't know that would be so
long um and with that I think we're back
to Stacy y Stacy ntown clerk for the
record so um this evening there has been
no changes um since your first reading
at your last meeting and I'm available
if you have any questions
Andy you
good great thank you Stacy uh back to
council for any other comments here or
questions public
comments any public comments on agenda
item number three in
Council no any
online no Mr CH no thank you with that
it's back to council for any further
discussion or a motion Mr Mayor I move
the we approve um agenda item number
three second reading of ordinance
24-11 second
oh we have a motion in a second please
call the question Kibby yes Adrian yes
Allan yes inin yes arenson yes held yes
and hink
go
okay so with that we're going to move on
to our next item of business which is
we're going to recess a
regular meeting of The Frisco Town
Council and we're going to open a
meeting of
The Frisco Community Housing Development
Authority meeting and with that let's
have a roll call all right Allan here
inin here Aronson scrj Adrian Kibby held
here and hink
go with that we'll open it up to any uh
public comment on the Housing Authority
business public comment in Council
public comment
online nope
okay that brings us to our next item of
business is going to be the cons the
consent agenda for the housing
authority and with that if anyone has
any questions or a
motion and consent is minutes from our
last
meeting Mr actually it's actually the
resolution designating the place for
posting of
notices the first the the first annual
post it's January yep okay so minutes
and the posting of our meetings in
public spaces thank you
Todd I'll make a motion to approve as
stated second we have a motion to
approve the consent agenda and a second
please call the question yes yes Allan
yes incin yes Aron yes held yeso ask
great we'll move on to a new business
with the housing authority
and with that's going to be lesie and I
don't have any other further stuff right
in front of me so that's I got no more
for
good evening Commissioners we have three
items on your new business which all
relate to the financing of Workforce
housing um so to start with the first
item of new business we have an approval
for the engagement of Butler snow this
is Bond Council that uh we have as the
town of Frisco previously worked with
they uh served as Bond Council for the
granite Park project uh that was
financed in 2023 and we've had good
experience with Butler snow as our bond
Council and staff recommends the
approval of an engagement agreement with
them as related to the project at 602
Galina do this I it should probably be
individual motions yes so there's your
first item you want to show that to me
I'll make a motion
yeah first item well do you want to go
through the comment question comments
wise remarks we didn't hit public
comment as I'm going through the agenda
so I want to briefly state or Lesly if
you'll bear with us open it up any
public or did I go to public you did no
I Justus I'm sorry are you ready for a
motion we
are since this was
just I move that we approve the
engagement of Butler snow
thanks Lesley with that we have a motion
in a second when we're ready we can call
Leno is absent Kibby
yes yes Allan yes in yes yes H
yes with that let's move on to our it's
g i heard
three there
so it's agenda item number two for the
Housing Authority approval of Engagement
of Piper Sandler and Co as underwriter
replacement agent for the frisco
Community Housing Development
Authority so this second engagement
agreement is related to Piper Sandler
they are um Underwriters or replacement
agent um for financing of um any kind of
debt but in in this case for the
authority um we as the town of Frisco I
don't believe have done business with
Piper Sandler however um as part of the
process of 62 Galina there was an RFP
put out um at that time that was done by
nhp but also in conjunction with um the
town of Frisco staff um the result of
that RFP was the selection of Piper
Sandler related to their fees um and
their recommended structure of the
financing and staff recommends the
approval of Eng agement with Piper s for
financing got it thank you any questions
for
Lesley I'm back on track Stacy no public
comment any public comment in Chambers
any
online back to council for any further
discussion or a motion Mr Mayor I move
that we approve the engagement of Piper
Sandler and Company as under writer
placement
agent great we have a motion and a
second please call the question H yes m
is absent Kibby yes CJ Adrien yes Allan
yes in yes arenson
yes great thank you and then we're on to
agenda item number
three that's interesting
um I'm I have a title I'm gonna read it
of resolution 25-2 of resolution
expressing the intent of The Frisco
Community Housing Development Authority
to be reimbursed for certain Capital
expenditures associated with the
financing of a Workforce housing
project so this is also related to
financing and the purpose of this
resolution would allow um for any
expenses that occur between the dates of
the resolution and the date that we
close on our financing for the authority
to be reimbursed from that financing for
the costs that occur between that those
time periods got it thank you
adopt that resolution any questions for
lesie no any public comment in
Chambers any online no thank you um with
that back to council for discussion or a
motion Mr Mayor I approve we I move that
we approve resolution
25-2
second great we have a motion in a
second please call the question arenson
yes held yes Leno is absent Kibby yes
scrap Che Adrien yes Allan yes inin
yes great thanks
Cy and that is our last item on the
agenda for
the frisco Community Development housing
authority and with that we're going to
close this meeting and we're going to go
back to our regular meeting of The
Frisco Town Council
in un adjourn I think you have to have a
motion to adjourn the yeah the Housing
Authority First Mr Mr Mayor I make a
motion to adjourn
housing we have a motion to adjourn
second all in
favor right now we're back coming out
coming out of the Housing Authority now
we're back in council
meeting a motion to move into executive
session yes
motion that we move into executive
session pursuant to you have
to statute sorry have to
change
um here yeah thank
you um Mr may I make a motion that we
move to Executive session pursu uh to CR
s section 2 4-6
424b concerning Conference of attorneys
for the town to receive legal advice and
specific legal questions related to the
development agreements for certain real
estate property owned by the town and
known as 602 Galina Street and pursuant
to CRS section 2246
424e to determine positions relative to
matters that may be subject to
negotiations to develop strategy for
negotiations and to instruct
negotiations concerning the development
agreement for certain real estate
property owned by the town and known as
602 galita
street thank you we have a motion do we
have a second
second and then now it's we're going to
Executive station all those in favor
hi is it a roll
call oh you want to do a roll call
though because we have to have a certain
number so we just want to make sure oh
absolutely yeah roll call your roll call
vote on moving into the executive
session
um kby yes scrap Che Adrian yes Alan yes
in yes arenson yes H yes and Linko is
absent okay uh just a moment uh we're
gonna switch over the zooms too Andy so
you got to go into that other Zoom
okay oh you're muted sorry did you send
me a link to that I can resend it to you
okay thank you yep see you soon