Okay, time to continue the meeting. I guess, do we got to make note as Marchant stepped back?
Okay, so make note that he's no longer with us, if he comes back, we can chart that again. Okay, we'll start with the pledge of allegiance.
Okay, time to continue.
Okay, we'll start this meeting off with an indication by Reverend Nashon Russo from the St. Paul's Episcopal Church.
Welcome.
Thank you.
It's great to be back.
I just thought I'd mention, in St. Paul's, this year, we're celebrating our 200th anniversary.
1822 was when the church started just being used as a church, and was deeded to the
observable diocese of Virginia, so we've had services ever since that continues.
So, one of the ways we're celebrating is all this Sunday through its September, October, we're
a little announcements, historical briefs about highlights, the church and the town and the history mixed together.
Nathan, are you all right?
Only the good ones, I hope.
Yeah, only the good ones.
Congratulations.
Thank you.
Let's go.
The Lord be with you.
How's it with you?
Let us agree.
It's horse of all being, it was given us this good land, our heritage, we humbly
besieged that we make always crew ourselves, a people mindful, your favorite glad to
do your will.
Thus our land with honorable industries, sound learning good manners, defend our liberties,
fashion into one unit of people, the multitudes brought together out of many nations and
tons.
Bill, with the spirit of wisdom, those to whom we entrust the authority of government, and
there may be justice and peace at home, the time of prosperity and fill our hearts with
thankfulness, and the day of trouble, suffered on our trust and use of fail.
We commend our town of Hamarket to your merciful care, that being guided by our providence,
we may dwell, secure and goodwill.
Grant to our town council and staff, police department, all in authority,
respired of wisdom, charity, justice.
It was steadfast purpose.
They made faithfully serve in their offices to promote the well-being of all people.
They entrust your care as many works of kindness in our area,
especially the moms and children and the volunteers of charitable term.
And the clients and volunteers that hand work in regional food pantry.
On this sixth day of September the day of their labor day,
as we return to work in school following the summer months,
read that your spirit may guide and inspire our thoughts, words and actions
to promote the dignity of freedom of each person,
and guide us in the way of kindness and compassion.
He asked this prayer and all our prayers, people in our hearts, in your name.
Thank you. Thank you for coming.
Okay next on the agenda is the community spotlight.
We have here Jenny Green from Alex's Army. I'd like to welcome her and thank her for the beautiful
Thank
you, Mayor and Vice Mayor and council members for having us out again to share with you.
My name is Jenny Green. I am the co-founder of Alex's Army, Childe Cancer Foundation here in Hamarket.
I feel honored to be here. I love that you guys are doing the community spotlight.
and I listen to some of a Haymarket Food Pantry and just for us to be recognized alongside
with them and all of the organizations that are in our community doing great things.
We just I appreciate this platform to be able to share.
I know you guys are familiar with our story and my son Alex, so I just wanted to share
about our mission again, but then also some of the new things that we have been doing with
Alex's Army through the pandemic and going forward.
So, Alex's Army was started in 2014 with the mission to fund research, with a focus on
Wilms tumor, to raise awareness for all child care cancers, and to provide support for the child
cancer community, especially families in our area across the country.
So when my son Alex was diagnosed
two to five years old, and this was in 2009, one month into kindergarten. And we learned over
the seven years that he fought, just the realities of what families go through and what our
children go through. We learned that, you know, the treatments that they received are not
new. These have been around for 40 years and a lot of the same team with AirBees that he
was given are what adults receive in their treatment. So it was very eye-opening to our family
as we kind of learned this whole other world of child cancer. So since 2014, Alex's Army has been
able to provide $550,000 in research funding for child
cancers.
A few years ago, we named Dr. Jeffrey Dome, who
is one of the world's leading Williams-Tumers Specialists,
as our part of our research advisory team.
And just recently, so one of the trials that we have been
funding is called the rest of the therapy trial.
When Alex was in treatment, there were no immunotherapies for his type of cancer.
We always asked about it because it was in the news for leukemia, then other cancers,
but it just wasn't there for solid tumors.
And after Alex passed away, our foundation had $100,000 to provide for research funding.
And it's just so not a coincidence, there was a the rest of the university trial had just
was just coming into, I guess, play, you know, they were working on it and looking for funding.
And so over the last several years, we have focused on just funding that trial, which has seen great results for
kids. We always say that every dollar makes a difference, and you know, I realized that
you know, while $440,000 is an incredible amount for a small, all-volunteer, all-volunteer
organization like ours. You know, in the realm of medical research, it's not very much.
However, last week I was invited to a ceremony where children had just received a grant of $25 million in research funding because of the work that they were able to do on the rest of the therapy trial.
So that was an amazing overwhelming emotional moment to be a part of that and just to really see first hand how, you know, every dollar truly is making an impact and to hear them talk about how in the next decade.
You know, their hope is to bring this immunotherapy as a frontline treatment for solid tumor, pediatric solid tumors.
So, I wanted to share that because that was really great news, you know, in our world,
and, you know, obviously part of our mission is to raise awareness, and we have always been so grateful to the town for allowing us to put up the gold ribbons throughout town for the month of September, which is how the kids are wearing this month.
And we had to do other things like we held a Guinness World Record event this last year at Battlefield
High School to try to break a Guinness World Record for the most people performing push-ups.
We had to break 100 people.
We didn't break the record, but it was just an amazing day where we and by all of the families in our area to be honored.
You know, to show how a community really does come together for families who are going through so much.
We also honored police and fire at this event and emergency response personnel because they are such a huge part of our world as well.
So, and then we, you know, our mission to providing support where, you know, through during COVID we haven't been able to go into the hospitals and that still hasn't.
We still haven't been able to, we're hoping to soon.
So it became a little bit more difficult to really meet new families and try to get that connection
with them.
But we continued care packages, pillow cases, all the things we could do, making masks, food
delivery, and that kind of leads me to like some of the new things we're doing.
So a few years back, we started our love in pickles, meals ministry.
It's called Love in Pickles, because one we just were serving love in pickles
because Alice loved pickles.
And so the kind of the, behind the name, but just in the last few years we have been able
to provide meals for 10 families in our Hamarket, Gainesville, Brazil area, 190 meals.
And then we also do grocery, so we do a big BJ's ride at the end of our meal train for
family, fill up a bunch of carts with their favorite things and essentials, and drop
that off at the end of the meal train, and that's been something that I know is needed
as a mom, like trying to figure out grocery shopping, and meal, it's hard enough when you're
not going through something like that, but when you add, seeing your spouse back and
in transition and and being in the hospital it's just we know that that's a way that we can help as well.
And then just in the last year we announced Green and Gold Athletics Theater scholarships for children
for athletes who are impacted by childhood cancers. Alex was an athlete.
And he didn't let anything stop them, you know, when he was in the wheelchair he played wheelchair basketball, sled hockey, that was his who he was.
And so we were looking at for a way to financially help, you know, besides research financially helped families.
And we came up with the scholarship.
And so the first year, last year, we were able to provide three scholarships to local,
Hamarket students, to at Battlefield High School, and we provide collegiate scholarship,
but then also scholarship for just travel expenses, equipment, things like that.
So there's two different types of scholarships we offer, and then this year we awarded eight scholarships.
We get funding for these scholarships by partnering with local youth sports organizations.
So like this Saturday, Grizzly Football is having their Alex's Army Bowl games.
So all of the funds raised there will support our scholarships.
And then we also came up with a bucket of on-program where high schools,
the basketball teams raised money by shooting free throws.
So all of those events are supporting our scholarship program, which is really exciting, and, you know, we're just super proud of that,
so.
Yeah, so I just want to thank you guys.
I did invite some of our families to come out, so we do have quite a few Haymarket families that are going through treatment,
who have gone through treatment and, you know, the reality is with this being child
a cancer awareness month. I think that it's important to know that child a cancer
isn't as rare as we all, you know, would like for it to be. And in our local high
schools, you know, there are several families that all of them who are either going
to it right now, or have recently.
So, I'm not sure, Michelle.
So one of our families is here.
Michelle Leabel would like to share, if that's okay.
And she has a friend with her, I don't know.
So she's a foreign exchange student who loves
criminal justice.
So she's getting, you know, some experience here too,
as well that I'm sure I do.
Hi.
My name's Michelle Leabel.
I didn't really know I was going to be speaking tonight, but my daughter Kendall was diagnosed
in June of 2021 with a very rare form of lymphoma and we were very lucky that it was
treatable and she's been in remission since November last year but for any 15 year old four months
intense chemo is horrible and after a year of COVID and being home for her freshman year of high school
she felt very alone she didn't feel like anyone cared and invisible and at the time I didn't
know Jenny although Kendall went to gravely where Alex went so we had always heard about Alex
And another, I don't know, an amazing volunteer with Alex's army, John Heeter heard about us and reached out and said, what can we do? And I said, insurance is paying the bills. We're lucky there. We have enough money to feed ourselves. We're good there. But my kid needs help. She's lonely. And these women reached out to the dance teams they kind of was on. They reached out to the dance teams.
school she's been to in the past and she had not stepped foot in battlefield yet so they didn't
know her and the last two rounds of chemo. Kindle would be in the hospital for six days at a time
for chemo every three weeks and the last at least two rounds they set up signs as we left our neighborhood
in Dominion Valley, Kendall, you've got this, and every round there were more signs.
And then the very last day of chemo coming home, they threw her a parade at battlefield.
And there were sports teams there, our church was there, Alex's army was there with a
gazillion balloons that we took the wrong turn at this, but they were there for us and
for Kendall every step of the way, and they still are.
Um, so I never thought I'd be in this position.
Um, my kid was healthy.
She danced eight hours two weeks before.
She was diagnosed with a tumor the size of a tissue box.
We had no clue if she was sick.
And unfortunately, that's the case for a lot of cancer families.
So fortunately, our community has Alex's army to be there for us when we meet it.
Thank you.
And Kendall can't be here because she's a dance.
So it's good.
It's our life.
Yeah.
Thank you.
So anyway, just thank you guys for giving us
this opportunity to share.
And we're just going to keep doing what we do.
And yeah.
So thank you.
You guys have any questions?
So we have questions.
Thank you.
as well.
First of all, I applaud you for what you're doing.
I think it's a wonderful thing.
Can I ask which form of lymphoma your daughter has?
Large B cell.
Yep, large B cell.
You know, kids are getting more and more lymphomas that I happen to know, because I have it myself.
So I understand.
Can we get together afterwards?
Can I get your contact in full and reach out?
Okay.
But keep doing what you're doing. It's a great thing. Research is where it's very much.
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, we just remain prayerful that we will seek yours in our lifetime.
And, you know, either way, whether we, whether this is the cure or it eliminates this and we find something else.
You know, we just start staying positive and...
Exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much.
And thanks for the goodies.
Yes.
Okay.
But he also wants to bring cake and cookies with me.
You didn't know, Pat?
Okay.
Everyone settled?
Okay.
We'll move on.
We have a continuation of the public hearing we were having last meeting.
Emily, did you want me to announce the status of that?
Mr. Wilson, it's open.
We have, it's open and advertised.
I think we have to ask if anybody wants to speak to that, if not then we can close the
matter.
We can close the public hearing and close the matter if nobody wants to speak.
And if somebody doesn't need to speak to it, somebody's here to address it.
Yeah, this is the open meeting for the zoning text amendment.
Do we have anybody in public to, as a comment they want to make any emails?
So I'm assuming that we can close the meeting.
close the area.
Okay. Mr. Mayor, without objection, I would move with the
draw-all of the zoning text amendment for 6712 Jefferson Street.
Any objections?
With drawn. May I make it a vote?
By our formation. Since you didn't make it a motion, let's do the column
favor? I do you want a roll call?
Roll call?
Yeah, it's a land use case we'd better do it Bob.
Roll call?
Yeah.
Hi.
Yes.
OK.
Move on to the next meeting.
The fiscal year 2022 surplus presentation.
I think you can do it from the beginning.
So tonight we're going to be discussing the fiscal year 2022 surplus discussion.
question.
Anybody need lights? Okay.
So our key discussion points this evening are going
to be regarding the town surplus. They proposed real estate tax refund, capital improvement,
projects, and future revenue forecast for the town.
The Uber is going to hit the light.
So in this presentation, what is the surplus? Basically, it's when revenues exceed expenses.
Any budget you always want to match have a balanced budget and basically in the situation
the surplus is created when we collect more revenue versus what we expend out.
The current surplus, as of August 30th for the town, is a pre-audited number, is 577,748.
On page 5 here, is just showing highlighting a few reasons why the surplus.
I
don't know if you guys want me to go through them every single month, but the majority of it has come.
Some factors that happen to this is that during COVID and Post COVID, we still had CARES Act funds.
That we were able to utilize to offset some operational costs, meaning that we were able to use CARES Act funds to purchase items that qualified.
If we had not had CARES Act, we would have had to pay it from the general fund.
So, this obviously created us having not to use our funds.
Also, the past year, we've had a huge increase on sales taxes,
B polls, which is business license within the town,
and as well as the meals tax.
The opportunities, the next page highlights some opportunities
that we can do what we can do with the surplus for F5-222.
One of them could be proposed real estate tax refund, the town park sidewalk, the town center
master plan, and the proposed park building rehabilitation.
The graph here indicates what on a pie chart what the surplus would look like.
This is using if we were to propose surplus refund and how much it would be left over for the
proposed CIP funds.
We're talking about this proposal.
Let's say tax refund.
I believe Council has,
was in the grants to no more than 250,000.
The remaining amount would then be used towards the
geared towards the CIP projects.
Okay, Roberto.
For the benefit of our audience, can you explain what CIP
CIP is?
Capital improvement projects.
On page nine,
what is the real estate tax refund?
A refund of taxpayers who are asked who are assessed real estate property taxes in any fiscal year in which the town reports a surplus.
It's also discussed with who qualifies for it.
In this case, it would be any taxpayer that owns a property as of December 31, 2021.
I also address the questions, addresses the question as to when they can expect this refund.
We are estimating to be milled out by November, but it could be changed depending on what council discusses and builds on.
Roberto, this was addressed at the work session. I don't think everybody was there.
The reason we're suggesting the real estate tax refund is that that's the one that's provided for within the state code.
Other types of refunds are not specifically provided for it.
This one is and they have the parameters by which you can do the refund.
Some other jurisdictions are going towards offsets and personal property tax and a variety of other things.
None of which are provided for in the code.
This is the safest, easiest one to do it.
That means we're in accordance with the law.
Page 10 actually gives an estimate of what a townhouse reform will look like versus what a single family
house reform would look like.
At any count, this may vary.
Single family homes differ in sizes and assessment,
assess pricing.
As well as townhouses.
But this is an average.
So the next page 11 discusses how the reform would be dispersed.
We are looking at one's council.
If council approves it, we would go ahead and
to make this refund happen, and the checks will be milled out to the qualifying property owners.
This by charge, it's kind of more to readjust what the remaining funds would be used for when it comes to capital improvement projects,
which will be 51% of the surplus.
So the proposed capital improvement projects currently are the town park sidewalk, the town center master plan, and the proposed building rehabilitation.
With
the Tom Perks sidewalk, as Council has been working through this project for the last several months,
we are currently in the design phase of it.
We're getting ready hopefully after tonight to award the design phase contract to the engineer and start work.
It is projected that it will be a 255 day timeline from that point of awarding the contract.
We also have an estimated cost update for what is shown on this slide here.
This slide right now has it at 86,000.
We're at 89,500 for that design phase.
What this does is this gets the engineer out here.
It gets the engineering completed so that we have a full
site plan to include stormwater for the portion of sidewalk that would connect
from the Haymarket Baptist Church parking lot all the way to the corner of
drive so that's the entire frontage of the town park and then around the corner connecting
up to an existing sidewalk on blight drive. So this just provides better connectivity for
our park users, pedestrians coming. There's big projects on either end of town, one in town,
one outside of town and this is going to help with that final linkage there. So what we can do is
in construction phase. Once we have our site plan we have bonding estimates, we can then utilize
possible surplus money if we wanted to in that scenario to go out and secure the
proper funding. We can also look into our art befunding and our grants if applicable.
The Sound Center Master Plan, another one that we've been working on for years.
This one is finally coming to a close here on the design phase. So we are currently in
engineering planning phase.
We are working with our consultant,
Rinker Design Associates.
We hope to be wrapping up with that very soon.
So we utilized a combination of previous FYCR pluses
and ARPA funding for the design phase funding.
And we can look ahead to construction phase funding
for getting the appropriate loans
or, again, grants if applicable.
this site plan so that everyone is aware. The picture here on the right is not
the best image, but it's what we try to demonstrate.
It's a top-down view of this building right here on the corner, so it's your town hall. It's the police department.
It's Washington Street Realty, copper, cricket, and cupcake heaven. What it will entail is the stormwater work
and all of the curb and gutter to modify our parking lots to be completely paved. Get rid of the gravel in the back,
provide proper entrances and exits on Washington and Jefferson Street for the main entry into the
campus, if you will, and then also on the side to have a proper parking lot for the tenant,
as well as the police department, while still utilizing and opening up the green space in the front
and making it a nice open space for our community.
So, the proposed park building rehabilitation,
This is something that we've kind of doubled on with this council, last council, but this
council's really taken initiative and wanting to see something done with this part structure.
So we had the playground installed and it's been very successful and now we're citizens
are asking for, you know, what's the building going to look like in the future.
So we are currently in the phase of seeking out a structural engineer to
come analyze the entirety of the structure.
Provide us with a report and assessment stating exactly where the deficiencies are and where we need to
spend the most funding to get it up to a structural standpoint where it is something that we can open up and it has integrity for the long term.
This is not just the aesthetics, this is the actual bones of the structure, so we are hoping to have those assessment proposals back here very soon so that we can fund those.
Once we have that in place and we get those reports back, we can then go out to contractors and we can get a better idea of what needs to be done and what those dollar figures look like.
Again, this is very much in the pre-designed phase, if you will, we need to figure out what's wrong with the building before we can start designing it and coming up with its long-term potential.
However, at a staff level, we are thinking this would be a great building.
We already have handicap accessibility to the structure, but it would be a great building to open up for our citizens and residents who need a place to meet for HOA meetings or at day parties, you know, small organizational events,
Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, et cetera, so that they have a community space that is right here
located in the town, quick and accessible to everyone.
And then we would also look in the space of operating exterior restrooms that would service
the playground area or the park in general for the hours of the park, which is Sunrise Sunset
following slide, projected additional revenue sources for future fiscal years.
One of them
is the debt reduction, our proper funds and the ARPA funds.
So currently the town does have a
debt obligation for properties that were purchased for years of a go including this building
in the park. This is basically laying out how the next three years will look. As you can see it will
be a significant drop following in two years by half of the debt that we would owe to for
this loan. The total debt will be 284,929.
Just so you guys are aware we did when they
exercise about two years ago. If you have what it will look like over the cost or savings,
If we have paid the debt as a whole, it turned out that it actually benefited to just
create it out as it currently is, it really wouldn't change too much.
What are we at rate-wise right now on that one?
So we have three.
One is at 3.25, 2.75, and the other one I have to get back to you, but they're
really
Our next slide here is about Prophors or Conditions of Approval, which can be utilized for
Capital Improvement Projects as we discuss things like the Sidewalk, the Master Plan here
at Town Hall, or the Presidential Park Building Rehabilitation. Prophors are a condition that's
voluntarily committed to from a landowner developer when they're trying to pass a rezoning
package or a new development package within a local jurisdiction and they're trying to eliminate
that impact of this new development.
Prophors, again, can be utilized for capital improvement projects.
We will be receiving Prophors from the Crossroads Village Center Developer
and we are receiving conditions of approval from the Robinson Village Developer.
We have started receiving in some of the Robinson Village conditions.
we do probably expect those to be tidied up and finished being submitted probably within
two to three months time.
So I know this is a little bit harder to see here, but this
just gives a breakdown of what these conditions are submitted for. So we have categories
that were again voluntarily imposed by the developer, Parks and Recreation, Public Safety,
transportation, fire and rescue, town administration and schools. So that comes out to a total
of $19,316 per townhouse for this specific development. In total, that is looking to be 734,000
for the entirety of the 38 town home development that's going in. The numbers will be very similar
for the Crossroads Village Center development.
Once they start, we do have an updated timeline.
They're hoping that their first town homes
will be occupied in the March timeframe of 2023.
So this was clear.
That is correct.
So we should start hypothetically if that stays on track.
We don't know how our winter is going to be with construction,
but if that stays on track, March April, May June,
we will be receiving proffers as those townhouses go to occupancy.
So, we're talking roughly double this from that development.
That is correct, roughly double.
So, some of the line items that we're looking at when it comes to this type of money is
how can we utilize the Parks and Recreation line item for what we want to do at the town park
or other items in our CIP, as well as transportation.
Public safety will be earmarked for CIP projects
that fall under our public safety.
So please, Department, fire and rescue.
This money will be set aside in earmarked
for the county fire and rescue.
And we will coordinate with them very similar
to how we coordinate the fire funds that we receive.
And schools, again, this is a similar way.
We will reach out to the schools that that neighborhood would serve and we would work with them to figure out what their capital improvements are that they need and we would go
In coordination and get the funding for them as appropriate
The American Rescue Plan or ARPA as we call this report
These are funds that were given federal funds that were meant to assist the continuation of government since public during COVID pandemic and promote public infrastructure
During these times, we were given the ability due to the amount we were receiving to the
Claire, one time allowance and revenue loss.
With this did, it's basically enabled the town to be able to use a funds as they see fit.
When they were first promoted out, it was mainly structured towards COVID, pandemic,
and
It's able to be placed in an operational sense if we need to, without the parameters that the ARPA
consisted of. Currently, we are holding it on a separate account. I believe the council is still
meaning to use it towards the infrastructure as a right now. That's what they're meant for.
The total amount of time received is 1,738,878.
last slide here to kind of conclude coming from a staff level. The top two questions are
ones that we feel that our citizens would like to hear answers to or have more information
from their council and discussion and then we are certainly open for additional discussion
and questions. I know this comes up later on in the agenda and we do have a public hearing on
real estate tax refund so we're happy to answer questions now or we can address it and
under our agenda items as well. I'd rather wait till the discussion. Take the
title comments and I'm going to announce if there are any.
Are you good?
If you want to discuss it now. No, you you're good with waiting.
Yeah, fine. Okay. Then we'll do it during our agenda line item for it.
after a public discussion.
So I guess that's it.
Thank you for the presentation.
We'll move on to the public hearings.
And we'll start off with opening up the public hearing
for the real estate tax refund.
Public noticing, I'll speak a little bit, please.
The town of Haymarket will hold a public hearing
on September 6, 2022, beginning at 7 p.m.
at the town of Haymarket Town Hall, 15,000 Washington streets
to meet 100 amorphic Virginia,
to zebra 169 and or at other such times
as to which such a herring can be continued.
To consider amending the fiscal year 2022, 2023 budget,
as summarized below, this amendment will increase
the adopted budget of the FY22, 23 by refunding
from the general fund $250,000 in surplus real estate tax
revenues from the fiscal year ending
and June 20, excuse me, June 30, 2022.
These taxes were collected based on the 2021 tax year,
for which the payment deadline was December 5, 2021.
The refunds will be paid in accordance with an ordinance
to be adopted by the town council person
to Virginia code section 15.2-25111.
The new total budget amount will be $3,257,740.
Okay, now I guess we'll open it up for public comment.
Is there anybody in the audience that wants to a comment on the the refund?
The proposal
Any emails?
Okay
So we'll move on to the next public announcement, which was
Do you want me to close it first? It's okay. I
I thought we were going to do both and then close, okay.
So we'll close that meeting.
Do I need a vote on that?
Okay.
We'll move on to the next public meeting, which is the town charter amendment.
And now it's done, please.
On Tuesday, September 6, 2022, at 7 p.m., the town council will hold a public hearing
with respect to the proposed town charter update.
This public hearing, the citizens of Haymarket Chow, have an opportunity to be heard to determine if they desire that the town counts a request, the general assembly to amend the town's existing charter.
The current charter was adopted in 1950 and includes revisions through 1972.
The proposed amendments to the town charter accomplish the following, changing the election dates from May to November, and the deletion of obsolete provisions.
It
will open this up for a public comment, anyone in the audience went to a comment on the charter announcement, any emails?
No, sir.
Okay, we'll close and move on to our regular open meeting.
And we'll do the citizens' time.
Anybody out there looking to make a comment that they open meeting any emails?
Now I see a lot of young adults out there, I know we're focusing on battlefield government
class.
Are you guys here for that?
I was wondering if we could do a quick recess so that I could meet these guys and get a quick
picture before we move on.
Another photo of me.
It should be quick.
We'll make this no longer than three minutes.
Okay.
Okay, now we're back to our regular session.
Sorry about that, guys.
We're at the consent agenda. Does anybody want to pull the reports?
Yes, Mr. Mayor, I would like to pull the, the Tall and Edministration report, please.
Okay, anybody any other reports?
I was going to pull that one myself.
Okay.
Throw me a motion.
Mr. Mayor, I'm moving we approve agenda item section 11, A, 2 through 4, B, 1 through 5 and C, 1 through 5.
Second.
All in favour?
Okay.
So we'll pull the administrative report.
Just a minute.
Five years ago, we had a staff member,
join our team here,
the tone of Hamarket,
young in the way that she approached
every aspect of her job with excited
and brought to the tone.
a level of excitement that has rubbed off on the rest of the staff since then she has grown
in different ways.
I just said we've seen her mature in the position that she was hired in and subsequently
proven herself in an interim tone manager's position, and then through discussions with the
tone council and the rest of staff we've seen her taken on the tone manager's dual role
with her administrators role, and today I just wanted to pull the report and to publicly
thank Miss Emily for her five years and presenter with something that we came up with collectively.
So if you can, roll your style of up here.
Roll?
A lot of one yet.
Sit up.
I come in, Mr. Man.
Thank you.
Bob, you had something?
Yeah, I got something on a more less light-hearted note.
1, 4, 8, 7, 1, Washington Street.
I grow weary of this situation.
Where do we stand?
The property owner has emailed me on Friday that the Finns will be installed by the end of this week.
I followed up with him to make sure we're still tracking on schedule.
So we should be expecting that the Finns will be installed by Friday afternoon.
I'll follow.
Yes, that's correct.
So, that's the-
Would you like to far the appropriate parties, sir?
Yes, they will.
If anything were to change in their response,
I'll keep the appropriate parties up to date as well.
While we're in that area of the neighborhood,
what's our bright projection looking like?
So, for a bright mitigation throughout the entirety of town,
There are several properties that can go ahead and have zoning violations issued.
We can go through those steps.
We can do the posting of the public hearing, or the public notice typologies.
We can do the posting of the public notice for the awareness of the property owners and
surrounding property owners.
And then council needs to be ready to take action through a blight mitigation plan.
I certainly can be prepping this and we can have it ready to go.
And we can take care of this if this is something that council is looking to move forward with at this time.
We can start with the, you know, contact zoning violation.
We can do our friendly reach out initiative that we try to start with.
Any concerns because I'll tell you what, I see a corner of a foundation that's really looking a little
little funny
Anybody else have concerns?
You go on at length, but I won't.
So yeah, I'd like to start the process on that building.
We will start the process and we'll start tracking it.
Any other comments?
I do have one question for Council, just because it came up as a zoning item.
I had sent out an email.
We had a recent zoning matter in the Greenhill Crossing neighborhood.
Has everyone received that and you guys were okay with the response?
We had a little parking issue with the in-home business.
They were properly permitted, properly zoned.
We followed up with all parties involved, conducted interviews.
So I just wanted to let Council knows taking care of but see if they're running followed by speaking of Green Hill, the other Green Hill zoning issue, the shed.
That shed is on the list.
And also part of that letter that you had.
I talked about some play equipment.
Yeah.
I looked like it was community equipment.
It's hard to determine.
Yeah, did we reach out to the H.O.A. management group and find out what's going on with that?
You want to kick that dog?
I'm not going to do it.
Well, I mean, it was an issue that was raised in that email.
So I just want to make sure if everyone's happy with it.
I mean, it seems like Nick the neighborhood is okay with it.
I've never received any other complaints.
It sounded like when I did the interviews with the parties involved
that no one had an issue with that, it was just something of note that chief and I recognized
when we did an inspection of the property.
Okay, yeah, if there are no concerns, I don't think we need to go to the management and say,
hey, we see this out there, do you guys have any concerns with it?
It would only be a reach out, it wouldn't be us enacting it.
I feel that's a HOA issue.
Could I follow up on the conclusion, the investigation of that zoning, okay, just curious,
now that business day, they re-up their business license, right?
That is correct.
Okay, and they hold on a second, I wrote myself a little note here.
So, just as a learning experience here, when somebody submits an SUP for home business in town,
is it essentially self-reporting or do they have to or do we get any information from neighbors on that?
Let me clarify, when this business came into town to apply, our zoning ordinance at the time had the use that they were looking at doing as a buy right use in the R1.
So they did not apply for a special use permit. They applied for their zoning permit and that was an administrative action because it was a buy right use.
And so that is where they met the qualifications for it.
We verified everything.
They also submitted everything that they were required to have on behalf of the state
that was inspecting them as well with their business license and zoning permit.
So this particular business that everyone's aware, this is a family.
I believe it's referred to in our zoning ordinance as a family day home.
I would have to look at the exact language of it, but that is classified and it is reviewed
by the Virginia Department of Education, because it is essentially a daycare for 12 students
or less under a certain age, so they are inspected twice a year as well.
Okay.
Well, thank you, guys.
We're not working.
Looking into it.
Okay.
We good to go.
We are.
Okay.
Let's move on.
going into item 12, the real state tax refund discussion, and the draft resolution.
Mr. Mayor, I would move resolution 2022 stroke 12.
I'll second.
Okay, got a motion.
Second, open for discussion.
Anybody want to start off?
And staff and the finance committee, or lesons, lesons.
Thank you for the presentation that you put together.
I like it.
However, I don't think this is the right time to take
So $250,000 of our surplus to put into, given back, given to our residents a small amount
when there are other uses that they could benefit from if we were to put it to better
use.
Allow me just to explain a few areas that I think we should exercise more with them in spending
And this amount of money and the additional surplus total in 570,000.
We're venturing into on chartered territory, maybe even worse than what we ventured
in two and a half years ago with the pandemic.
There's an uncertain future ahead of us with the possible recession.
And again, this is just my opinion, but I don't think this is the right time, having been blessed with this amount of surplus to spend it in such a way where we could spend it in other areas that benefit the entire community.
There are certain things that I think we could do better in using the money and I'll give some examples of what I think we should be investing in.
I think we should be investing in serving and services to all the residents. Here are some examples.
During the pandemic that we all faced a few years ago, we were not prepared.
We were not prepared with outdoor event places where that we could use readily.
Yes, there were uncertainties about the pandemic, but we weren't ready.
And I think if we invest the money that we have no as surplus in better areas,
we could be better ready for possible recession.
The park was mentioned.
We could use portions of the money to create a pavilion.
We could use portions of the money to refurbish the restroom.
We could use portions of the money in alignment with our CIP to refurbish the building that's on the park property.
for better use right now there's just a small portion of that part that is being used by
our residents. But I believe that if we geared the money to certain areas we could better
serve the residents as a whole instead of in my opinion and I'm a home owner in the community.
I would gladly receive the $200 or $300, which I am not even sure if I would receive it or it would go to escrow.
I'm not even sure how that works, but I'm still talking.
But I don't know how it is that I would receive that money, but instead of a $200 or $300 in my pocket,
I would rather have my portion go towards the entire community benefit, instead of just a home owner in the community.
There are a couple of the areas I do on a mentioned sidewalk. There are sidewalks that is a part of our CIP that we highlighted to be repaired or to be new.
There are sidewalks that we've realized over the years were installed incorrectly, and this
portion of the money could go towards.
Protecting ourselves from having people, having sidewalks being tripped hazard, but having
proper sidewalk installed in our tone.
Tone center plan is another area that we could possibly use the surplus money for.
developing this stone property for the vision that we had in creating what we have right now
with the police department on one side, the tone admin staff on the other side.
Then as we nailed on more service oriented items for the tone where the tone can benefit,
We have a custodian that works for the tone right now and currently works 25 hours per week
39 thousand dollars
Can make this custodian work for the tone on a full-time base
This is off which we could start seeing him and his skills being used to take care of the properties and provide a better service to our residents.
Not just the custodian, during the last meeting that we had in our work session, we talked about the police department.
The police department with the additional 30 plus homes, 38 plus homes in Van Mieter and
79 homes at Prosthro village, we're going to see a greater demand on our police department.
And things cost, a salary of $65,000 will run our tone about $109,000 in a salary
package for a police officer with equipment, salary, and everything else that he's needed
to equip one police officer. In addition, we've heard from the chief the last time of
whole beneficial, it would be to bring on a part-time employee to help with the administrative
skills. And lastly, the trash collection for these additional houses and homes that are
joining, that are coming into the community, that's 38 plus 79 addition and we are
gearing up to see an increase in trash in our trash collection bill. In summary, I think
there there are other ways. Whilst I agree that this is a great option to spend $250,000.
It is my opinion that it is not the right time for it and I think we need to think carefully
through how do we go through not because we have half a million dollars in surplus
that gives us the right or even to exercise the leeway to spend half of it by doing
tax refund.
I would like to hear from the, from the Trevor or what his opinion is on the, the
real estate tax refund of $200 and a quarter million dollar, that's on more than $250,000.
But what is your opinion on a tax refund of $250,000 to the residents when, as I've stated,
could have been you it could be used in in other areas.
I mean I we've had these discussions
with the finance layzons and they're aware from my opinion of it so we'll catch them
of guard but you know this is I mean it's an opportunity that we could do this you know with the funds
but as you as you stated there are a few other things that I noticed that down the road could
be affected. In fact speaking to fellow treasurers, if you all remember council and mayor,
we did, when I created a budget, they created a budget with an equalizing rate.
Council obviously voted to even reduce it. So we did reduce or real estate tax rate,
which is something that all treasurers pretty much review looked on and kind of,
Everyone in the green set, that was something we should have to do, believe County did the same thing,
though they kept other taxes, you know, in their open crystal.
They included them, real stacks, luckily our businesses are exempt from that additional tax,
says they already pay them.
Yeah, we received a good amount of surplus more than increased.
Then again, we use funds from CARES Act to offset some of those costs.
And at the same time, we have received these funds,
but we haven't, in about the next two years,
we will see an increase on expenditures as well,
coming with these additional commercial units,
as well as with the residential.
To speak to the contract, the trash service,
We, I worked with the budget that Council has adopted that does include the 79 tile homes and the 38.
But this contract will be up as of June 30, 2024.
It seems like a far, far time from now, it isn't, it will be here next to you now.
And I can think of a way to consider where the vendors have been reaching out to us looking for their operational costs
because they're in this binding contract with us.
Fortunately, we are not able to maintain our current contract, but I can tell you that many contracts are raising prices for services, their rates.
And though this is a great opportunity, I feel that we should also look at other opportunities
because I feel that it's not as easy as just the end of the year who owns the property,
receives the funds, speaking with a town attorney as well, we should also consider timelines.
How long we want to hold the money forward until we, well, by state, until five, we have to hold it for five years.
Those are how not been, you know, re-cached, then submitted to the state for them to be claimed by the resident.
As well, but parameters as, who qualifies, you know, we have to discuss that before we move forward with it. Who exactly qualifies?
I know there's ordinances out there by other counties that do have it, they never be implemented.
They have an ordinance on how to go about this system by refunding, but they have never implemented it.
Discuss a little bit more about administrative costs.
I mean, this is an additional duty that I would have to do, and hopefully get an assistance from a town manager and a part-time assistant.
So there's just many things I think that before we just were to vote on it, or council votes on it, that we should consider to discuss.
It is an opportunity, but I would rather see the time we able to use these funds in other options.
Short-term, I think it's a great thing, but I'm thinking more long-term, you know, COVID-19 was here, and
it was a different situation. People were still having jobs, people were still working,
or I said, if we were to hit every session for whatever reason, you know, people may not be so inclined to go spend
money on the meals, as you know, it's going up.
So, in my opinion, I would rather see other options, but it's an opportunity to counsel as a whole, can decide on, that is not off to me, you know, but if you're in my opinion on it, I would rather see other options in opportunities that would better serve the community as a whole, kind of like what you said versus just the specific six hundred and one parcels that would receive these.
Well, thank you for your honesty. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
What are you doing?
Okay, what I'd like to do is go around the dice.
Everyone can give their opinion so if you can hold off her.
I can hold it.
Okay.
I just want to let you know that Councilman Schneider is on his way and should be hearing about a half hour
if you're interested in holding this agenda item and moving to the others.
I know he does.
for all of them so we could hold the vote but yeah I know he wants to make a few comments
so we'll we'll hit our comments and then we'll just let him hit his when he comes back
and we'll we'll continue that discussion then if that's okay or did you want to totally wait
move this back I think we should put you on anyway I mean he wants to talk on a bunch of
the items so if we if we're going to delay one for half an hour we're going to delay them all
So, I mean, I mean, I don't want to hold off on the boat, sure, but yeah, let's get the discussion rolling.
Okay, so Mary's not here, so we'll move on to me.
Comments?
Usually you go last Mr. Mayor.
Okay, I will go last then.
Round the dice, vice mayor.
So that's a lot to process, and I want to see if there's a lot of options.
I can see where a refund is going to benefit the families.
I can also understand servicing and other areas.
We mentioned grants in some of those other areas.
Where are we in getting those accepted?
What are we talking about?
So those would be ones that we would have to research
and look into what's available and what
are what are projects fit into the criteria for applying
for those grants.
One of the ones that we're actually going to talk about later
on tonight the safe streets and roads for all grant.
There's possibility there that if we were to apply with the county on that grant that we could get some funding for the sidewalk or transportation improvements.
But again, these grants typically will have something in them that you have to meet certain criteria.
So we'll have to look into doing that research for the specific projects and different agencies.
What's being offered at the federal state and local levels?
I mean, I can see how it's going to benefit the individual family so then our community.
I would never speak for anybody as a whole, everybody's situation is different.
I think that $100 is a lot of money, so $200, $300 can't go a long way for one of our families,
so that's like your point at this time.
Are you, um, you know, I would like to hear, I would like to hear from the gentleman that proposed it
first before I speak, because I think, really, I think, because I want to compliment
Chris on his argument, I'm going to support the motion, but I'd like to hear from the
gentleman in the proposal.
Bob, you have the question?
I think everybody has to bear in mind is that this is not a tax refund in a vacuum.
This is part of a larger picture in a larger analysis.
It's an analysis of the surplus, it's an analysis of projected revenues, both for this year and the coming years based on anticipated and actual growth that we're seeing.
It's based on profits and it's based on ARPA and other grant funding.
It's based on one of the other factors that we factored in was where does our debt service stand and when will that be retired such that we don't have a debt service.
So that when you look at the bottom line in next year in the year after, in terms of operational expenses
debt load, that sort of thing, we're going to be in a much different position than we were last year
or in a slightly different position than we are this year, with respect to the county, the county did not do this.
This is the lie that the county tells. The county lowered the tax rate. Yes, I'll agree with that.
The county did not lower the tax.
The tax rate that they set still
encumbered all of the residents with a higher tax bill
because they didn't offset the rise and assessments on average.
It's a silly game they play every year and it drives me nuts.
We don't play that game or at least I don't.
Yes, we equalize the tax rate at first.
That was proposal.
But by lowering the tax, we actually equalize the tax paid, not the rate.
So there's a significant difference there.
And part of this has to, I don't know what I'm saying, part of this has to do with what the county did.
The county raised our real estate property taxes.
Everybody in town, the county raised our personal property taxes again,
cloaking it and the cut.
I don't know if anybody's seen their personal property tax bills came in last week, I have.
Last two years, my property property tax bills have gone up and I have a new car.
And I think everybody in this room is probably in a similar position.
Then on top of that, they put in a meal tax, et cetera, et cetera.
Then they found $13.5 million in the couch cushions the other day.
He wanted to get that $13.5 million dollars. They didn't spend it on CIP, they didn't spend it on parks, they didn't spend it on a sidewalk.
They decided to give one time $1,000 by off to make their employees happy.
They didn't make everybody in the county happy, they made their employees happy,
and they weren't really happy with $1,000 because they didn't want to have a raise or a step increase or a colon.
And most of them don't even live in the bloody county.
This tax refund goes back, and I think I take issue with it, we'll go back to the whole
community, because the whole community owns this town, whether it's a town or a business,
and don't need the businesses out of this, because the businesses are getting near share as
well.
And some of them will get a rather hefty check.
I think you start looking at how did we arrive at this when we put the budget together
that created the surplus, we were very, very conservative in extraction of the budget.
We were extraordinarily conservative in the revenues projections for things like meals,
tax, and be pulled, because we thought COVID was going to hit harder.
I mean, a whole lot harder than it did.
I mean, I think I can speak for Joe on this.
We were shocked to just tell you about the revenue we got, and as a result of that conservative
budget, we did not cut the tax rate for the residents last year,
so they bore more than
their share.
We've got $1.7 million in our defunding. We've yet to expect. We've got $2.2 million
in progress coming in. Those proper money are constrained. Roughly 450,000 of it has to go to parks.
So we've got a revenue string for the port.
Between the proper funding that we should have relatively soon, if the build out projections go to form, we're going to have almost half a million dollars prior to the beginning of the next fiscal year.
Same thing with transportation. We can pay for the sidewalk out of the bloody proper money.
and back out all of the argument that we have scheduled for that, we can back that, put it back in the lock box and the reason I saying we should do it that way is the proper funding is constrained.
That 450, roughly $450,000 for parks has to be spent on parks. If it's not spent on parks and by that I mean capital improvement expenses.
After a period of time, the person to play the proper,
the entity to pay the proper can ask for it.
That, if it's unexpected, same thing goes for every category of those.
These need, this money needs to be used on one-time projects.
Yes, I understand the custodian issue and the part-time employee for the chief.
We've already budgeted the part-time employee for the chief into this year's budget.
I think we've actually budgeted for the maintenance.
We have not done maintenance, guys.
Without plan for next year.
Okay.
Not pretty sure we put.
Do we discuss this last year?
Okay.
I thought that.
Anyway, we can cover that.
But that's not a.
That's not a one time CIP expense.
That's an ongoing expenditure.
And this is that.
And again, I'm going to go back to the county.
This is what drives me bloody nuts with them.
They come up with budget amendments in the middle of the year, adding FTE right before
the beginning of the budget cycle, and never discuss the impact of that on the ongoing
expenditures.
It's not a one-time cost.
You can't use money like this for one year.
You should use money like this for one-time cost, not for ongoing budget issues.
That's what you're creating your budget for.
And this is what drives me crazy about the Kennedy.
They'll take one-time money and then create an ongoing expenditure
that lasts for the next 20 or 30 years
and you wonder why your taxes go up every year.
The trash.
That's going to be offset.
The trash is built into the budget.
A large percentage, if not all, but probably not all of it.
But a vast majority of it will be covered by next year's tax bills
when these new residences come online and start paying their tax.
That's not the only service we really provide for the tax monies that we collect the parking
of police department we do two thing we do police department and we do trash and even in the
case of the HOA we only do that because they get well actually we do because it's not the
only charge trash outside of the outside of the town and the HOA but I mean that's what you're
that's what you're getting so I mean at the end of the day we've got roughly four million
dollars in constrained and unconstrained funds, they're essentially a windfall.
We've got an increase coming in our revenue stream from the commercial side of the house
that is all but unavoidable.
I mean, there's not much we can do to screw that up.
We've got one, two, three more restaurants a daycare, a couple of retail shops, some of
going to be charged more meals tax. We're in the best position financially as a
town that I can ever remember.
And we're not reinventing the wheel here. We've
done this before. We've issued the tax refund. We know what the code states. We know
how to do it. We've done it before. We actually issued it one year and we're going to
issue it a second year until the mayor vetoed it after the town council left.
The residents' personal priority tax bills are coming in on October 5th.
I'd like to get it to these people around them to offset that increased cost of the carry.
I'd defer up.
Mr. Mayor, Joe.
Well, I want to say this is very enlightening to those students.
This is where the sauce is made.
It's nice to see that as for your benefit that there are differing opinions, isn't that interesting?
How do we resolve those?
Sometimes you don't, but yes, how do you resolve those differences as part of the challenge?
And we will get to a resolution when we are another.
I'm going to support this.
And I'm just not going to go over and re-lit a gate with Bob said and what Chris said, and the vice mayor.
But I think what we really have to recognize is we have a good problem.
This is an unusual good problem to have.
We are flush. We've got ARPA money.
We have a growing revenue source, which seems to be doing very well.
Now, let's just go back to the whole issue of
on charter territory in an uncertain future.
That's every day.
On charter territory, on certain future, we face that all the time.
And you know what our businesses do, and our residents do as well.
I think it's important that we invest in the people that live in this town,
and the businesses.
And by doing a refund, I think that's going to be a good investment for those
folks residents and businesses. Now we're talking about 601 different entities
Roberto was out the number you threw out there.
Yeah 601 personal. And that's the
majority of residential. I believe and then some businesses. So just to be clear.
Okay. Councilmen where not every business will all benefit off the property
be all proper, but I got the floor, I have the floor, thank you. So to my point, and thank
you for answering it, because you're anticipating where I was going. It is businesses that
own property in town. And I think it's very important for them. We've been through a really
tough time in the pandemic. We've come out of this really well. I think we have to look
If it's more as a one-off, this is not something I would recommend doing all the time.
We do have a need for investments.
We need a lot more planning, and that's not a knock on staff at all.
That's a knock on all of us that get together and think about and strategize and how we're
going to spend some of this money.
We have a considerable amount of money that, and I will echo what Bob said, I don't think
I've ever seen, and I've been here almost 12 years.
I don't know, I've ever seen this town be in this flush with money.
Whether it's unrestricted, net assets, or what have you,
we're in really great shape.
Do we need to think about the future?
Of course.
Do we have to plan for the future?
Of course.
But at this point in time, I think our residents who
are the owners of all the revenue in this town, right?
It's not us. It's not you. It's not you. It's not you. It's everybody in this town. I think they're due
some help given what they've been through over the last couple of years. And that's how I see it.
And I'm going to vote in favor of the reform. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
Okay. Now you guys are willing to let me talk?
Okay. Good.
Well, I had no objection.
Okay.
I understand the pains that people are going through, Prince William County really screwed
the taxpayer by the increase in assessments of the housing and they added seeds that are
going on.
Bob, you pretty much laid all that out.
But of course, we don't benefit from the hurt that these guys are seeing.
So when we give this money back, we're
help alleviating something that a problem that we didn't create.
But in the meantime, like you said,
you keep mentioning this revenue of $4 million.
I've been trying to promote going into a strategic planning
initiative of this town.
So we actually understand where we stand.
The strategic planning, the first thing
would be asset management, right?
We really need to understand what our assets are.
We have no clue.
The assets will drive what goes into the CIP.
And right off the top of my head, the CIP that we have in place
was something that you pretty much put together,
because we never really had a CIP before that.
Besides, just, oh, yeah, let's handle replacing cars.
But there are pretty much what about six or seven line items on the CIP.
That covers some of the major things, right?
But that doesn't include, you know, like, Councilman Morris was saying about some of
the sidewalks that are starting to get to end of life.
We've got, for instance, the stormwater management situation we have in town.
We do have some flooding situations.
The streetscape started 20 years ago.
That's when we first put the pipe down
and the streetscape out there.
Reinforce concrete has a life cycle of 40 years
according to most civil engineering guidelines.
That means in 20 years, that's got to be replaced.
We don't have a public utilities or a structure in this town.
So why do we own this?
This should be going on to Prince William County's back.
Right now I'm in the middle of negotiating with the Prince William County for that.
Hence the assessment program that we have with Prince William County in which we're paying a 28% with,
which Prince William County seems to be sitting on, is that correct?
But the assessment is going to happen.
And when that assessment happens, guess what Bob?
That $4 million we have, I could sink it in one cough once knees.
Just to get our stormwater management up to part to which Prince William County would want to take it over.
So, you know, we got the stormwater management stuff.
I'd like to get, you know, an asset assessment, so that we understand what our town looks like with sidewalks,
with curb and gutter, with our buildings, where they stand, what we're looking at with roof replacements,
exciting that needs to happen any type of parking lot repairs that we're going to have to do which
which is already being planned by us now, but these are just items popping up right now with the
infrastructure bill and what we're going to be talking about later on with the SS4A, the SA streets for
America program.
We shouldn't have to rely on the county to get this grant money, but we don't have
any type of grant writing capability within our town.
With the infrastructure bill and another bill that's out there, we have access to four billion
dollars over the next five years that we could get money from.
All we got to do is compete toward it.
But how can we compete when we don't even have that capability?
So I'd like to try and get that in town.
That's going to cost a little bit of money to try to get that capability running
here in which we can get that.
Those are just a couple of things that have been circling around my head when it comes
to trying to get a strategic planning in place so that we can just continue on and have
things understood on what needs to be funded for next or what we need to continually
fun throughout our budget planning. As you know, just a simple one, our flag program, our
banner program that we have on our light pools around the town. I don't think anybody
really knows what the attrition rate is of these banners and what we need to do. We could
actually capture that if we had some type of asset management program in place. And we understood
But once we understand this stuff, we can go from a reactive state to a proactive state.
And we could get this done with this extra money.
We can start to put this type of stuff into place.
And I feel, I know it would help benefit our taxpayers because of the stress that the county
is putting on us, but that stress that the county is putting on our taxpayers, we get to
So we got to manage what we have and we got to take this kind of stuff into consideration
I'm kind of on my step-in-off my soap box at this point
My C-Bob wants to re-buck first. So we'll all have re-buck
The other way on the dime. I'm gonna get back on my soap box because money that taxpayers pay to the county is money that should come back to the town
and never has
This town pays the county millions of dollars in personal property tax and real property tax
And you tell me the last damn thing they ever paid for in this town, or the last thing they ever did,
regardless of who the supervisor was.
And with respect to asset management and maintenance, yeah, that's what we've got almost $400,000
that we built into the budget, existing funds, so you can't, you can't forget that $400,000.
Maintenance is something that happens, that's why we budget for it every year.
I mean, if nobody's reading the budget and doesn't look at those numbers, I mean, I talk about it every time something needs to get fixed, which line item is going to come from.
And that's why those line items exist. The stormwater one. I don't even want to open that can of worms.
We're in a situation because of the decision made in 1988.
And we're going to have to ask ourselves a very hard question in the very near future if we keep.
Question this, and that's how much is it going to cost and who's going to benefit? And what are the unintended consequences
when it pushes out to other neighborhoods?
I would argue that there might be, perhaps there is a legislative fix that needs to be made to that.
And I would much rather approach it from that standpoint to fix the underlying state code that's got us in a bind which I'm not even sure is being interpreted correctly.
But in order to do that, we need to start getting back to our delegate on time.
In fact, I know that the call I just got was from the delegate asking is going to the first question out of the delegate's mouth is going to be where is the charter you promised me months ago.
that we had that we're going to have to get to later on this evening.
Do we have a problem planning?
Yeah, because we can never decide what we want to do.
And then when we do plan something, it takes forever to get it through.
I mean, how long have I been screaming about the bloody sidewalk?
Two and a half years now, too?
But we've got it to funding for it.
I don't want to pat myself on the back,
but I think we've done a damn good job recently of planning
for funding within the development window.
A lot of what you want to do is three, four, five years down the road before you can,
before you can insert the first shovel.
We've got to go to the planning phase, the design phase, the bid phase,
and by that point in time we should have
judging from the budget and what we suspect,
the numbers are going to be based on recent past performance.
We should probably, I'd be willing to wage a right now, and I haven't been wrong much recently.
I'd be willing to wage her that next year's budget is even bigger.
But this is a particularly difficult year given everything that has happened to the residents in this town
from a taxation standpoint.
And it's not just a county, it's also the state and the feds.
If we can afford to throw them a bone at this point in time,
Because, quite frankly, in our conservative approach, we over-taxed them last year,
that in my mind, that's the right thing to do.
Do you have any rebuttal?
How about an enhancement?
Careful.
No, I'm not going to go through a whole bunch of other stuff.
I mean, I'm just thinking about the maintenance side.
There is a real issue of maintenance,
in town, whether it's the light poles, the sidewalks, and we'll have you.
Do we need somebody full time?
I don't know.
Could we use somebody full time?
But one of the things in one of the challenges we have to see, we have to analyze and determine
is the offset of having somebody full time versus outside third-party work, and where
their savings may be so that we can afford to have somebody on a regular basis. We have to go
through that analysis and I'm willing to listen and go through it and I think it's really
important that we do it. I'm just going to leave it one more time. There's investing and investing
is an important thing to do. I believe at this time investing in our residents and our businesses
that own property is worth the bang for the buck.
This is a very balanced approach on what to do with the surplus, giving money back to our taxpayers
who have gone through quite a bit in the last couple of years, and doing some other investing
in the CIP, and as you've heard in the discussion, we have other sources of revenue coming in,
we have other opportunities, we just have to figure out what we want to do.
Thank you.
Vice Mayor, Peter?
This is what I'm hearing.
There's definitely a need across the board.
I've heard several different suggestions.
All of which I know are going to be long in resolution.
I see attacks.
Refund being a more immediate.
Quite frankly impactful today for our resident.
So that is for instance.
Councilman Morris.
Thank you, sir.
Maybe this is a good lesson for those in attendance.
Stick to your convictions.
Thank you, sir.
OK.
I guess I'd like to pause on taking this any further,
since we got to wait for Marchant and then go for a vote
on this.
Everyone at peace at this point, for us to move on in no objection
to bring this up later.
table it, I'm going to go to
work, I'm looking for table a temporary early, I'm moved to table a temporary early.
Okay motion and second,
on-favor.
Okay.
We'll bring that up later.
As I got to take it off the table.
Okay.
Hope he's not texting and driving.
Well, we better hurry up then, so we can wipe out this agenda.
Okay, we'll move on to the town charter.
So Kim has pulled up your town charter amendment that we are currently working on this is the latest version that everyone should have.
So if there's any discussion or modifications that are discussed at tonight's meeting, Kim is going to be making those live as we're discussing them up on the screen.
We will have a version available to the public, effective immediately, and this will be the version that is sent off for our town attorney to check off review and then sent on to our delegate.
Okay, who wants to move on this one?
Maybe let me make one more statement.
Rokewic, I'm sorry.
Councilman Passenello, when you were absent at last week's meeting, I did bring up one of the points that you had previously discussed for the town attorney.
and he recommended you bring them up with the entirety of council.
So that was one of the items we left off on.
I think that's the case.
So before we go into a motion, I will open the floor for discussion.
Well, I'll move it for discussion.
OK.
I move.
Doesn't have a resolution.
It doesn't.
Yeah, it does.
That's the text one.
I'm a resolution 22 stroke zero one three
town charter ready.
Oh, I'll second, that's okay, I'll second, but I have a comment on what you're saying.
Yeah.
Motion and second.
Open for discussion.
We'll start off with Joe since I know he's got to come to discussion.
So I sent some comments to Martin back on August 8th regarding this, you know, a couple
typos and a couple adjustments needed to be made and there was really no issue associated
with that. I would like to go to Article 3, Section 1, Number 4.
And I know we didn't
really talk about this in the past but I'll read to you in my comments. I think I may have
section personally. And I would propose that we make a change to it. I was hoping that perhaps
we could make this change by looking in benchmarking elsewhere.
So it says that the council,
is this may find its members for disorder? Yes. I'm sorry. That's it.
may find its members for disorderly conduct and with the concurrence of two-thirds
expel a member.
A vacancy in the office of Mayor shall be filled by the council from the
electors of the town and any member of the council may be eligible to fill such vacancy.
Okay, two things here.
First of all, I think this could probably be split out because I'm not sure how they relate
to each other.
I think it's if two thirds vote against the fair that whoever's left behind could be appointed as mayor
I think that's why they that's all the entire him
That's the only way ties in unless there are two sentences in one
It seems to me that
It should have been two and two
Yeah, I hear what you're saying, but it seems to me it should be two, but that's not the point. Yeah, the point the point my point is and I'll read my comment publicly
I don't have a problem doing this. I have serious concern regarding the potential for abuse given past
central practice, expelling a member due to disorderly conduct. I'm not sure even what is disorderly
conduct. How is that defined?
It is. Is it in the, yeah. So I have a question about how that's
find and I think it should be somewhat. Is it somebody who's been charged with disorderly conduct
in the opinion of the Council with disorderly conduct? How is that? What's the criteria for
that? So I have a real issue with that. I'm okay with some form of sanction myself, but we'll
never support removal given that that should be a voter's decision, not a council decision,
because I think what you're doing is you're stealing the voice of the voter. That's my opinion.
I do have, I do have some support for someone who's found guilty of malfeasance, misvisance,
criminality.
Absolutely.
I think the code covers that.
But, you know, not until such time should, I believe, a council member be removed.
That's my opinion.
I think it gives too much authority to a miscreant leader and easily swayed members, and
It also strips the voters of their vote and voice.
And it just seems to me that it's inconsistent
with what we do with the PC.
I mean, you can't give it a PC member,
unless for malfeasance, misfeasance, or nonfeasance.
So, for something like that, okay, you know what I mean?
So, I make a proposal that that has to be changed
before I can support it.
Would you suggest striking and with the concurrence
of two-thirds, expel a member and just leave it at that?
or do you want to go break it up into two sections as well?
Well, I'd like to hear with other people think first on a site and be my suggestion.
I'm done.
Well, I'm assuming that you already said that this is in Virginia code, right?
The method for getting rid of a sitting elected official is provided for in code.
This is outside of the state code.
So, do you have municode on your PC, Emily, so that you could broadcast out what that code is?
So, we can see it and see if we just want to reference the state code?
Do you want to answer this?
Yes, I do. Give me a minute. I'll pull that up.
But we'll do that. It's in one of two sections. I think it's in.
That only take care of half your sentence though, won't it?
I mean, that's the key agenda for me, that I think the second part of the sentence is addressed elsewhere in the document it is.
It is at if the mayor resigns, there's a there's a there's a there's a portion there's description for that if that happens.
I really think this, the verbiage of this entire paragraph, was designed for one situation.
One situation. And I think it should be interpreted as if two thirds of the council deems that the mayor's behavior is inappropriate,
it, then they can whatever the consequences are, and then whoever is left on the dash could
be appointed as a mayor. Does that make sense? I think that's the context.
Do we need to define the fine amount or what disorderly means?
Yes, but it's so wide that it's really the city in two thirds, but I don't think that's the issue.
And I think that's what we'll see in the state code that we prefer, I'd prefer to just reference that as an interpretation of what mouthpiece and says.
Mr. Mayor, I don't think that's the issue.
The issue is not mouthpieces, the issue is not, how do you characterize it, the issue is not what the offense is, the issue is, do we give a body or a portion of the body?
that much authority when the residents are the ones who voted that person in office.
Correct. Correct. Correct. Correct. That is the issue.
And that's why I'm supporting what Joe is saying. I mean, we've seen it.
We've lived through it where it gives too much room for abuse.
And when we bring up the Munich code, we can see if that addresses all of it.
And like I said, depending on how opinion is, that code would be changed and we would never
have to change our charter because we're always referenced.
The state could, and we would abide by the state.
But there are other avenues, if someone steps all the line, basically,
malfeasance, just like what we just mentioned, there are other avenues.
We're governed by...
If you're conversing with certain crimes, you are automatically not able to observe it.
Now, I can't remember. It's in one of two, and it's always hard to find.
So last Bob is looking for that.
Joe, are you proposing that this entire paragraph be struck out?
No, actually I'm proposing that it be modified because there has to be some sanction for an illegal
action or mouth-feasants or misfeasants.
Why am I doing it the hard way?
I know exactly where the language is.
I don't know, just go.
He's talking to himself.
Good.
I'm talking to him.
So I mean, I'm not sure exactly how it should be
worded.
I haven't really thought that through.
I was kind of hoping that we could have Martin come up with something
based on other communities, benchmark, and see what they do.
Similar to what he did with the veto.
So, you're still thinking that there should be some corrective measures, or I don't have a problem with that.
I don't have a problem, some kind of a corrective action or what have you.
I mean, the body can do with the body can do.
Removing somebody from office, I find extremely problematic and it takes the voice away from the voter.
And I don't think we should be doing that personally.
I can't say it any differently than that.
Let's just see what you can come up with and what it says in the code.
They had section 24.2 to Article 7, and it's entirety, but specifically section 231, which
is for a person's, for a person's, for a person's, for a person's sentence for commission
of certain crimes.
So that, and this is all in Article 7, there's also vacancies occurring when officer is determined mentally incompetent, somebody accused me of that.
233.
Tonight, I think that almost tonight.
233 is the removal option by the court, by petition.
I don't think the thing, that's what this is addressing.
This is, normally the only way to get rid of an elected official is either they commit a crime and are precluded from retaining office by the courts.
As a matter of law, they can't have no longer hold office for having committed, having been convicted of that crime.
But our charter overseeds that, right?
You've got charter still have to do that.
This is outside of the statute.
This power does not exist in the statute.
Every other jurisdiction, the only way to get rid of somebody is to go through the courts with the recall process or they get removed by the courts as part of a criminal conviction.
So why should we be any different?
Apparently we're quite the anomaly.
And I think that was in the general, there was actually an AG opinion on this.
I
could probably find it a couple of years ago.
Well, I don't want to hold this up, but I think it could use a little bit more work.
Maybe.
I think it's striking that, and then it's not an issue.
Because then it just defaults.
Then it's defaults to the state code.
You're not granting, you're not granting, you're not granting the town council.
And if stored in every power outside of the code.
But that second sentence. I mean, I know, Chris, you're making the argument that they're connected.
But when we talk about the first line that says members, so that would include mayor and any other member, right?
They can see, though, in the office of mayor shall be filled by the council from the electors of the two.
That's funny. I don't have a problem with the second sentence. That first sentence, though, is where I am.
What's it? What's the paragraph that this this falls under? What's that number?
Article three administration and government. Article three one four.
Oh, so you're looking at the context? Yes, but keep going. Okay, it's the right there.
Also, you're looking for how the mayor gets replaced. Well, it says under the vice mayor
that the vice mayor would assume the duties of the mayor should the mayor be in capacity.
Okay, no, go back to the paragraph. Go back to the paragraph 4. Because it's saying here that
a vacancy in the office of mayor shall be filled by the council from the electors of the town.
Who are the electors of the town?
Oh,
this is not, this is not, this is in the case that if the mayor is removed
moved, by the two thirds, if the mayor is removed for whatever they classify as unfit, the
replacement of his seeds should only be done by the members of the community.
You're saying the election.
Okay, so wait a minute. I mean, because it says vacancy, I see
which is saying as you've got the context here, the first sentence, and that would be a follow-on,
but in saying a vacancy, there are other ways that you can have a vacancy in the office of
office could get sick, could resign, would have you. Is it covered somewhere else? That's
that's okay question. And I understand what you're saying, but if Madam Tresilin
rise up and get two-third of us behind her and said, hey Ken, I don't like his
hairstyle over the last few months, he did something wrong, let's pull together and
out, okay? We did, two-third, or you guys did, two-third, they're voted the mayor out. That
office cannot be filled by us nominating someone to fill the office. That seat has to be filled
by the voters. And I think that this is one sentence that has to be taken. These two sentences
need to be taken under the same agenda.
Now again, we're arguing through it and I'm supporting
what you're saying in that that's too much authority on two thirds of the members when the
community residents are the ones who voted each member in. When it doesn't say the other
member, if it's a regular member, it just says the office of mayor, right? What happens to a regular
member if it's Chris Morris? We get two thirds, it's a Chris you're out of here. Then the rest that
Council has done what we did with Mary has done what they did with me they can they can
appoint someone to fill the seat from the resident on an interim basis until a special
election until a special election but not the mayor if we get rid of the mayor we cannot
appoint someone here on the gas as the mayor the vice-american continuous serving until the
community votes for the mayor to feel a new mayor.
So the strategy is you kick the mayor out.
You let the community vote three months later.
And if they vote the mayor back in, you kick them out again.
And you just continue perpetually until it turns up.
I think this is one paragraph.
That has to be taken as one paragraph.
Because we do have other guidelines.
I think this is too much power put in in the hands of the seven members
on council to
exercise a judgment on an individual that has been voted in by the residents.
So if we strike the paragraph completely,
I would just get rid of that one clause and leave it to me.
What would be the negative impact if you strike the whole thing?
If you want to be able to find people for disorderly conduct, I don't care when we're the other.
Um, okay, Bob we all are saying is get rid of get rid of the part that everybody disagrees with and that's the end with a concurrence of two thirds expel a member if that's the problem excise the problem
But Bob we go back to the same thing who defines the disorderly conduct the sit-in members and that's fine. I mean
I mean
What's talking about is a difference between a fine and
Expulsion
It should be really have the authority to two thirds of us pull up to find you.
Hey, I'm deserving of fun sometimes.
I haven't been as obnoxious here as I haven't had the county.
I mean, I don't.
Do I like it?
Not particularly.
Do I understand it?
The only part that causes me heartburn is that one cause.
I can live with the rest of it.
I'm kind of agnostic on the rest of it.
honest with you. But if you get rid of the expulsion, you're an expulsion, I think it's
a fine. I think the expulsion, the rest of it is in this, sorry. Yeah. Now, the rest of
it is still not necessary because it's restricting the capital. And that's why I think it
needs to be divided. I think it should be, you get two things. Council wants to find
its members for disorder who can't conduct period, new, new section, a vacancy in the office
the mayor shall be filled by the now I get I get I get that's I'm sorry the vacancy it's pretty much
restricting the council members from appointing somebody just cut everything after conduct because
I'm for later on in the same later on in this charter you do talk about appointing council members if there's
a hole in the council right so you do need this paragraph so who the again let's go back to
is a regional question. Who are the electors?
Okay, it was decided back in
-
It's not in a town charter or at the time of the return.
So the town represents mayor passed away in the expected lead two years ago.
So that left the vacancy in the mayor's seat.
So, because that particular line that they did there for the elected citizens to come back and vote in another rare,
the town council appointed a mayor.
It wasn't filled in what did the vice mayor did not take over the seat.
They filled in the mayor's mayoral seat with somebody from the streets.
You actually have the option to do it doesn't happen and then I've seen this happen in other jurisdictions as well
Right
And this charter saying you can't do that
This charter is saying that that whole stays until somebody's voted in
Be an election
Yeah, well, we could divide it because it is cause it is some confusion. Okay, this was this question came up in 2014 specifically about this chart
this charter.
You inquire whether a provision in Article 3, Subsection 1, 4 of the charter for the
town of Haymarket, which allows the Haymarket Town Council to expel a member with the
concurrence of two-thirds of constitutional.
You inquire further whether 224.2, 230, through 238, the part I just referenced, which relate
to the removal of local elected officers, supersedes article, the charter provisions.
Lastly, you inquire whether the mayor may vote in expulsion proceedings and whether the removal
of a council member requires the concurrence of two-thirds of all voting members or only
those present for the vote to expel.
And the AG's opinion in 2014 was the Provision of the Charter, which allowed the town council
to expel a member by a two-thirds vote, is a constitutional exercise of legislative powers,
And essentially,
it supersedes, it renders the state code null
and void.
And with respect to the other part, the mayor may not vote
in exposed supersedes, and the current of two-thirds
of all council members eligible to vote is required.
So I can't just be two-thirds of the quorum.
All members.
It's got to be two-thirds of all members.
Two-thirds of all members eligible, whatever the hell that means.
two out of six, two out of six, two out of six.
No.
I think that's a council.
It would be on our case seven.
No.
May or may not vote.
But the Labor Day account is still a...
It says here.
The mayor may not vote in expulsion proceedings.
Really?
If we're talking about them,
we're talking about them.
But is it?
Yeah.
Why would we not?
If we're talking about them, we're talking about them.
That's just in case if the mayor is the party,
but if you are the party,
we still can't vote.
What the mayor?
What the thing is?
It's just like the video.
2014.
The mayor.
He's not allowed to vote.
So he's still got to get it before.
And thank you.
Thank you.
I'll do whatever you guys want to do.
I just don't care for that one.
I don't know.
Other than that, I don't know.
I'm agnostic.
So based on what you just read, Bob.
This is totally legal.
This word in here.
Well, this is the easiest.
opinion, but the car is weird, you know, all the age you would have to override his opinion.
Which they're not going to do because this is a, yeah, but this is what they call it, um,
in four articles of um, interpreted. Now, I can't remember what the term is, but this supersede
state code, but try, that in this particular case, because the language in the state code
when they wrote it for a stop.
Or for removal by removal by the recall petition process. Since that does not contain language that essentially says this section of the code supersedes all charters, it doesn't supersede the charter.
And since our charter is outside of it, the charter takes preceding a notice state code. And that's essentially what he's saying.
I can send everybody the better than just to have Jewel reach out to the attorney and come up with a language that suits us.
I would.
You've already heard my proposal.
If you get rid of and the concurrence of two thirds expel the number, then the problem goes away.
Then you're covered by state code.
Should we incorporate that by reference or no?
I don't care about that.
Find me all you want.
I don't have a question.
What does that mean?
Chief, can you give me a definition of disorderly conduct?
About the code.
Does it require a baseball bat?
No.
You know this is 2022, right?
No.
I don't want to call it a little bit different.
That would be, it would be an interpretation of fact, but you're talking in a civil proceeding with what you are, or discussing not from all right, back, right, so what, what the judge or prosecutor being considered as sort of the under, might be far outstanding what you are, exactly.
I think if you brought Maria to the meetings of Steve or just constantly or spoke her, it's just kind of full disregard for other council people, or language, I think you could go through it a lot of that and do it just really none of themselves.
So then we do, do we need to go further and define this somewhere in the Charmer?
No, if you don't.
But seriously, seriously, because if you're not there, then the general assembly is going to really look at it hard.
And I think that's what we're trying to avoid.
If you start trying to dictate behavioral patterns and norms or redefine, if we're going to expand this, then they're going to look at it.
And if we don't want anybody taking a hard look at the charter for other reasons, I wouldn't suggest going down that road.
So then the term disorderly conduct should be interpreted in the light of the members on Colinson.
That's what it sounds like.
Or we just get rid of the whole damn thing.
Why didn't you just stick to a line man?
I don't care!
I'll go for a speedy and see it at this point in time. If it's easier to get rid of section 4, the ones just get rid of section 4.
It's this typical language of most charters?
Do we need typical?
Do we know how old this language is?
It's from the original 1950 to 1972.
Do we know of any other incidences where this was necessitated or any incidences?
But in this way, it took an HG's opinion to delve into this one.
It sounds like we're a one-off.
And what is it we're trying to include is...
My only concern is the second clause of the first sentence.
I don't care about the rest of it.
Granted in the council too much power and authority
to exercise discipline there and measure the city in council on a member.
It's just that we remove all.
So, what is the reason we'll check the balances, is that what we're looking at?
Yeah.
Get rid of the first sentence and start with A vacancy.
Is that making happy?
No, but I thought that was clarified.
What do you give you to the first sentence?
We default to what is that section?
Yeah, what's the state code?
2.7, whatever.
We twenty four point two two thirty three. So so it automatically defaults to that.
But this does allow the statement that you cannot appoint a mayor.
The mayor can only be installed through it.
There's not necessarily any ways to figure. He's only a figure.
Well, very true, but I did have veto at one time, but I think you guys are eliminating that in this journey.
No, no, we kept that.
It's still there, it's okay.
You got a new one.
I'm removing this one.
Did you see there is a state quibro visited
that addresses something similar?
It's 24 point 24 point two chapters seven, I think it was.
What is the consensus of that was a reasonable alternative?
It's what happens in every other jurisdiction,
except ours.
Hold both of this.
Oh, I had an idea.
Go ahead, go ahead.
Go ahead.
Oh, back up.
Yeah, please.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, okay.
I tried it.
Yeah, the code.
The charter.
Number four, number four.
The charter.
Use the concurrence of two thirds of the vote in body.
The council may find its members for disorderly conduct.
So in this case, a simple majority.
Of the members, not of the courtroom, want to make sure we spell it out.
It's not of the council members.
And not including the mayor.
Right, so simple what you want to do for four or six, instead of five, instead of four, you want to do it.
So why can't we just end it there, just put that and delete everything else?
Well, I think that second sentence serves a point.
But that's address elsewhere.
I don't think it is.
I think where it's addressed elsewhere is if you have a council member that's missing, you can appoint them.
This is saying if you have the mayor disappear, you cannot appoint a mayor.
So back to you, Miss Kim, are you saying that nowhere else does the vacancy for the mayor appears?
Because if that's the case, then this has to be a separate paragraph.
But okay, so that means we cannot tie the mayor's aspect with the disciplinary aspect.
It has to be a separate notion.
It shouldn't be. I don't know why it's written that way.
Number one.
Okay, so there's a spelling error, right? No.
Keyes of a tie.
Same article.
I would split it and I'm okay with the fine.
Can you scroll down on this game?
Expulsion.
What comes after that?
I'm sorry, I threw the grenade in there.
Maybe we need to just find a space.
A place to insert the aspect of the absence of the mayor.
To prevent what happened in Remington.
Is that something we could have?
We could, why?
I mean, most jurisdictions do that.
What?
We feel the vacancy.
Just happened in somewhere else.
out in the valley.
The road hill, I think.
It was somewhere in.
West Central Virginia.
There's replaced a council member or a mayor or something like that.
They just, you know.
All right, Todd jewelry.
I mean, there's provisions for it in the state care.
I mean, I guess I'll say.
Okay, so what I'm not going to get hung up on this.
So what about my proposal for number four?
I'm changing.
What do you want to change?
with the concurrence of two-thirds of or with the concurrence of majority.
Majority is two-thirds.
I don't want you want to use.
Majority are two-thirds.
The council may find its members for disorderly conduct.
And everything else is deleted.
Well, it's understood that it's going to require a vote to find them.
So you're going to have a majority.
I don't know why you would restate there.
I think giving the council the power to do it is enough.
The council may find its members for disorder to the conduct period if you want to leave that in there
Oh, you're saying you're assuming it has to come with a majority rule. It's gonna
You don't have to take a vote. You don't have to state the obvious. Yeah, yeah, okay. I see what you say
Just put a period after conduct ditch the expel portion
Yep, and I would actually make a vacancy a second second section
You'll remember it. But you'd want to vacancy for the don't be on the seminar
I don't even care if we keep that to be honest with you.
Ideally, the two options I've got, the two most acceptable options to me are we even at the council may find its members for disorderly conduct or strike the whole damn thing.
Yeah, and then you don't define uh, what uh
Just all down. Well, what what this orderly is? What the fine levels should be?
Right. I mean, you know, uh, it's some arbitrary number. You can find them. I'm going to find you a million dollars.
Can I get a vote? Can I get a vote for people to find about a million dollars?
Or we're never told it. I mean, you know, come on. It's kind of ridiculous the way it's spelled out there.
Okay, it's ridiculous. Why is it there?
Okay, so what we do we do with a vacancy is it a separate item is a vacancy a separate item?
I think it is. So is that a different number if you aren't keep it?
Go for that that sounds good you need to be a rubric for the fine
Yeah, of course, of course,
everybody okay with that when this was re-appled with like three times or three pence
or spank a dead horse, whatever with it
sort of a labor to find, so we're just talking about the
find is that's what I was talking about.
It could be anything.
I mean, to remove the mayor section to three, that way you don't have to re-number four.
Right.
Just cut and paste.
And what flying was
so we got away from remove
Or expel
Should be number three
You need some back space collect them. I
could just go back. Don't don't say you don't
really bring up the next one
You have another one
He's got a couple, right? Oh, my goodness
I'm going to go through the town.
I think it's all right.
I can look with it.
I'm sorry, but we're okay.
What fine is undefined and can be of any value or?
Well, we're going to vote majority.
So I mean, you can raise it.
It's at $500 and my vote is going to be.
Yes, but I do agree with the fine.
We want to get rid of the fine.
Well, take it that easy.
What would you put in instead just get rid of the gold?
Okay, I'm gonna hold our dance room.
Well, keep the bank and see what is the accuracy of her sentence.
What is the reason for having a fine disorder in the conduct?
I mean, if you have one council member, that's going against the green and behaving in a manner
which the rest of the council deems to be inappropriate, especially to residents.
Okay? And that person is not willing to do to see their error, okay?
Then this is a good way to bring them back in line.
Yeah, and now you're making, now you're going to make me argue against that.
You've got to identify the amount of the fine, you've got to identify what happens when he does.
Well, who says that the women is a fine necessarily monetary?
Yes.
By default, shouldn't it be a fine or shouldn't it be a sanction of some kind?
I mean, you start to get all kinds of different descriptions that need to go into place.
Mr. Mayor, I move the removal of the first sentence to council may find its members for disorderly conduct
and with the concurrence of two-thirds of its fellow member.
There's my motion.
motion on the floor and then you just leave the vacancy that would eliminate any of use of power
I'll second motion in second last chance for discussion on it
What is what is the punitive damn what is the punitive is not they're removing it?
We're taking it out. We're gonna vote or I don't just we don't have to
because this is just getting too much, so it will be a strong man, but I don't just go for moving on.
I don't know, because if you guys are going to strike that first line in a second,
what I recommend is we leave number four as if they can see.
Yeah, all I'm doing is taking out the first set.
Yes, and then see what Martin says.
Yeah, back space.
Just go back space then.
What is the reverse to removing the member?
We're taking that all together.
Here's a conclusion.
And what we're doing is okay.
My argument was that if it's up to a council to remove some.
Okay, round table, straw man, aye. Yes? Yes.
So we're good. Let's move on.
Good job, Joe. Sorry.
I'm not going to do it anymore.
Okay. Let it go.
It's not that important.
I mean, you sure.
Just Article 3 Section 1.
Number one, Article
3, Section 1, it's got that July in there, is that necessary any longer,
shouldn't it, or if it's a temporary, yeah, should that change the January?
Yeah, that should have been changed. Yeah, that was an overlook.
the council of the first day of the year,
followed termination, or until the respects of serve.
Yeah, so be general.
I thought we changed all of that.
No, that was there.
I won't go with you.
We did change all of this, because that's got November in the second paragraph, which is also long.
No, but November is wrong too.
Oh, now you're right.
right. The first two is they after. Yeah. That's fine. That's for the election. I know
I changed this and all the stuff that I sent more. And I guess you missed it.
Now that's
fine. What was that? No, no. It was a little bit. Again. It's a question for Martin. What's
the difference between voter and the elector? There's no definition in the charter. It's a good
Okay,
now we need
to get rid of the other section too.
No, but I am an elector and also a voter, but only you get to replace the mayor.
Yep.
That course.
So that's...
So then if you go down on this section for,
there's a vacant theme house in New York,
you call that council from the electors at the end.
Oh, you sit guys.
No, no, no.
Yes.
Get rid of that, Sam.
No, the term elector is used in two cases.
It's used as a voter of the tone, and also someone
now they reference voters differently.
Elected by the qualified voters, and then the seven electors are named.
They're denominated mayor and six other electors.
Electors mean in someone who can vote, and also who's voted in.
Now.
And I want to hear an apology next meeting.
I think the term electors is used twice.
Is used in two different cases.
And then to complicate,
to complicate it tomorrow.
Mary had asked about the gender neutral phrases.
If you saw councilman in here, does that?
Council members?
It's my dear one councilman that I saw earlier.
Yeah.
As you went, go back up.
Go back up.
Just then and see what you did.
Yeah, dear.
The councilman.
Thanks, councilman.
No, it's a good case.
I'm sorry to do this, too.
If her terms means saying so.
Good catch.
Exactly.
I'm there.
Yeah, because what that's saying is that it's only the council members that select in the mirror
But yeah, let me let Virginia guide our hand right I'm good
That's the whole thing
Yeah, lecturers in the state code are a different animal in voters
Because you've got you've got different kinds of electors like the presidential electors to go to the electoral college
You've got other electors.
Oh, it's accepted.
No, what I'm saying is it's not voters.
They are not voters.
They're not people.
Pretty much.
They are people with signed-a-specific tact, a specific ability to vote on something specific.
And that would
be.
Yeah, electors are not chosen by the voters.
Electors are selected by the body.
I would delete the rest of it for it to be offered to be offered to be offered.
We can do a straw man again if you want we get rid of it getting rid of the whole thing
Round table strike up strike Joe. Tries to win
Much on
Thank the whole paragraph or keep it rely on a Virginia code
I think it's because we have other ways of doing it by code.
Okay.
I'm good.
Let me see.
Let's see.
That's it.
Okay.
My only recommendation.
Please do a word search for men.
And make sure that we got council men everywhere.
And change it to.
Some of.
Second.
Okay.
Hi.
Yes. Yes.
Hey. Get that on to Martin and shoot it out to Dan here.
Without objection, direct staff provide me with a red line copy from Martin
and a clean copy from Martin. Hopefully by closing business tomorrow
so I get a certain delegate off my back.
Okay, so the delegate will stop calling me and asking me about it, now she wants to meet it to suffice after the meeting.
Okay.
What, which will you done before they all closed?
Not the way it's looking.
Let's move on.
Next item.
Let's be RFP notice.
Love intent.
Do you want to do that?
We already want to go back and clean up the other one.
We can go.
We'll go back and clean up the other one.
I'll just go through the rest of the agenda.
Let's go through my agenda.
Go through my agenda.
So March on, stay as whatever it is that I mean.
Should I build not you, though?
No, just zero.
Okay.
Right.
Okay.
You know.
Right.
With that objection, direct staff to proceed with sending out the nose of intent to award in the contract.
Any objection?
Move forward, please.
Next item.
AirB.
Make it see appointments.
Okay.
Click that also.
We, the outgoing, share person.
Sharon and King had a reference, Tracy.
and thought she was a good candidate, and then Ben is an active member in our community
over in low community, in low-community, in low-community, in low-community, I'm sorry,
Stacey, thank you everyone.
I'm sorry, Stacey, I miss them, but it's new faces, new energies, so I think it would
appreciate the council's support of these candidates,
and if they both, also, if you read
to click right up, they wrote in both,
both have some applicable backgrounds.
I think there'll be good contributors for the group.
Can they simply move all three?
Let's see, well, now I've got to do by name,
right in the draft motion.
Where's the draft motion here?
TARP.
Period, TARP.
So I have a draft one, a page and one, 31.
I can do the ARP ones, if I can.
I got it.
OK, we got it.
OK, so I move to a point
Sandy Freeman to the Haymarket Planning Commission with a term expire in June 30th, 2026 also move to a point Stacy Kern to the architectural review board with a term expire in June 30th, 2023 and a point Ben Barbon to the architectural review board with a term expiring June 30th, 2026.
Second,
but in reference to the vice mayor, I wouldn't ask to divide the question between
the planning commission and the architectural review boards terms,
so I move to amend which
roll your motion. Okay, if you, if you, if you, or we can go suddenly and then, or we can
you, I would throw the motion. It would just be easier rather than going through the whole
way. I would throw the motion. I would throw the motion. I would move to a point, Cindy Freeman,
to the Haymarket Planning Commission with a term expiring June 30th, 2026. Second.
I've got it.
Not too far.
Okay.
Motion and second.
Last chance for discussion.
Let's put it up for vote.
Someone who is statement will make.
I'm a piece.
We know you're here.
We're doing the report on a rope roll call, though.
Just because.
Okay.
We are.
I can abstain.
All right.
Here.
abstain.
Aye.
I move to a point, Stacy Kern, to the architectural review board with a term
expiring June 30th, 2023, and the point Ben Barbon to the architectural review board
with a term expiring June 30th, 2026.
The motion second, last chance for discussion.
All right.
Hi.
Yes.
Okay.
Next item, safe streets for reds for all grants.
It
seems to be work as state of crossings of railroad tracks,
based on also some of your slides, while crosswalks,
but transportation from a transportation project
that will increase safety and help lower the project depths
that have been in the rear and the different areas
of how much transportation lives.
So there's a letter of support here.
You'll also see this staff report.
This was actually heard this afternoon by the county and they did adopt it without objection.
and I would just direct the merit execute this.
A little objection.
Any objections?
Okay.
We will execute it then.
Moving on.
Up over meeting dates.
Two items of the way to move.
So maybe a place near myself in the clerk will use it.
On our don.
That's what's
better asking to bump in me.
We're looking to move forward to the first on Tuesday as well. So we've pointed the Halloween holiday and we would like to talk about that at some of the December 24th.
So, median date is a fourth and 24th,
24th, 24th.
Any objections?
Direct to make that on the calendar.
Okay.
We got a table item.
We have a motion.
Mr. Mayor, it moved.
remove, remove resolution 2022 stroke 012 from the table, okay, it's off the table open
for discussions, okay, on favor, all right, it's up for discussion, I'm
sure, I appreciate the courtesy, while I say it I was texting with Mary, she's okay
with us if they're so desired with this forward and night.
She's fine with the council move in that forward.
First of all, we've seen that it's been a very deliberate
exercise.
I appreciate the time and effort that finance committee
put into it, especially the staff.
Good presentation.
Good background.
I think it was a very transparent exercise.
That's great.
We have any public speakers tonight on this.
Do we have any online comments?
Do we have any comments that we have heard from constituents
and friends and neighbors?
Thank you, General.
I written them.
It was questions.
Go through real quick.
We talked about the police.
I did catch part of the conversation earlier as I was driving back.
One of the concerns when we came up.
We had a discussion about whether or not to fill the six officer or not.
One of the concerns that I presented was the fact that we were going to be in a position to support
the hotel growth.
I didn't even think about the paragraph.
So, the discussion that was tonight, Chief, I apologize to Mr. Presentation, but the proposal would be that we need a upcoming part-time officer, or that's our administrative need.
No, I did not present on that anything on that tonight.
Okay, I know that the town manager, Treasurer, presented the overview of that issue, but I would not be prepared to give any statement on that right now without some further review.
So it would be a very premature for me to speak to that.
I apologize if I spoke out of turn.
No, I'm just answering your question.
The potential may be there.
But it would take a further study on my part to give you an evaluation.
And there would be no statistics that would indicate that.
This would all be determining looking forward on the expansion and what needs we may.
I guess, point of information, you did say that we have a budget for a part-time officer.
We have part-time officers, and we have budget for the part-time.
And extra part of the part-time?
No, not next year.
We are maxed out now with our part-time officers, but we did not budget outside of the scope of that.
Okay, so when I caught earlier that there was a discussion of a temporary or a part-time
police officer, what was that in relation to you?
Work on admin.
Part-time admin.
Okay.
Well that's where I'm just understood.
I'm just sort of the statement.
If we were to need additional officer assistance, do you know off top of your head with a general
up fit is for a new officer equipment and other stuff?
If you're looking at the benefits of for a full-time officer, you're talking around $100,000
about 7,522 outfit, a new officer, and that's without being, well, that's best radio
that thing.
You have those buttons.
If you look towards a vehicle, you could probably add about another 50,000 on that, because
it's not just the normal and current cost of expanding our fleet, it's the fact that you've got
another radio set.
Now, another blue light set, another console.
You have all that expansion, far surpassing what we are at.
Okay.
So 50,000 would probably be a good round number for that, so you're looking at that one.
So, for 160 plus, if we went that full shopping list, it's out at the officer, that's
75, I'm understanding it's static.
It's not going to change.
That is right.
It was at a gig, or she would have to have.
And, of course, the benefits package would be long with that.
The vehicle would be an open discussion point.
In terms of our befunding, we can't use it for operational, we can use it for general capital,
or if we needed that event a new officer?
No, we could do that, okay.
We can't use your product service for that service.
Okay.
Thank you for that exercise.
I was, I'm this, I'm heard the admin assistant distinction.
The debt that we have left, you know,
it's about the library of the earlier today.
What are the pros and cons if we were to take these monies
and pay off our debts?
So right now we're paying like 12,000 per month maybe
on our, how much we pay him for a month on our real estate loans?
Are you on the mic?
Make sure that the town can hear.
Open your project.
We, we, as part of the presentation, but we also ran this scenario about a year and a half ago
and considering the rates that we had it didn't benefit the town to pay him earlier,
so we're just going, then the thought was to just remain making the payments as is.
So there's not a benefit to paying off early.
Yeah, okay.
Other than we save the, it comes off our monthly and comes off our month, month, month, month,
the line item and we say potentially on some interest.
It comes out for a yearly budget because it's a, it's not a monthly thing.
It's a, it's a, I was from a floating in the front.
And I'm cutting it, yeah.
Okay, yep.
Okay.
Thank you for preparing.
Can I clarify that and so, so that
the interest in the answer to that.
Okay.
Police, we might talk about.
Are there other options from the staff perspective that the money could be used
for surplus money, immediate needs that maybe I'll turn it up like I'm
starting to push on the spot, but are there other needs that could be that we
have coming up that are readily not
immediate, but I mean there are other
opportunities I think we discussed earlier, I don't know how much you heard of it,
just bits and pieces and some, was there any key takeaways or other service based
opportunities that we can use it for, okay, to some easy examples,
if not, that's
OK, I'm taking advantage of the time you guys
help for me.
Limit on the ARPA funds.
Do we have a sunset clause?
No.
So OK.
And the only limits on the time we
do in a couple of projects, but what are the things
that we cannot use it for again?
Pensions and the debt obligation.
But we did the allowance pretty much
can use it for anything operational if we
needed to, which other scholarships have been?
That's kind of a kind of a drastic one thing.
I think it's a bad idea to spend money on operational
operational expenditures.
No, I don't know.
I don't think we should.
Those are actually come out of our revenue.
Um,
the, when Skatey did the, there was a Christmas,
Coon that did the memo.
There was a memo that did some estimates on the finishing
up the town center project in the, in the, in the sidewalk.
was the sidewalk about 600 grand was that total everything else in there so I think back
but 2020-21 I think the estimated cost was about 600 and some change obviously the
times was like they probably went up.
Question I go for like the town park sidewalk but
be 250 enough to offer to cover the potentially cover the whole cost of that project and not
have to potentially look at grants or loans to do it?
No, no.
The 250 wouldn't cover that.
Well, you know, Councilman Ware stated,
we do have profits out of 400 and some change,
but we would still, you know, 250 could offset that
to totally complete pay that if you were to use it that way.
But we've already committed part of the deal
was committing the remainder of the surplus to that correct.
So if you free up the ARPA funds,
I think the discussion was made guess to do that here.
So in essence, in essence, between the Prophors and the remainder of the surplus, we talked
about Prophors being restricted and those come in in future years.
So probably then we just got an update on that to see them.
The third ground's property?
Yeah.
One of the expected to pay the entirety of them for the end of the fiscal year.
We're all 79 units, we're sorry,
talking 12 months, 14 months, I think the comedy made earlier was by the end of June.
Okay, because living next to the VanMeter project hasn't happened that fast.
VanMeter's already turned to where
they are falling in the line.
I guess the point being, is it's at some point in the future.
And those are deer marked monies for specific elements.
Thank you for my introductory questions.
So, I'm of the opinion we're behind.
We have been behind.
We continue to be behind.
We have master plan projects that have been on the books for years.
I hope to see the park done before my kids.
We get out of elementary school.
They're not going to see it until they get out of high school.
We have these project here that has to put some public open space.
We do we have, but not a lot.
The van meter project is going to have a small playground.
We've walked away.
So we walked away as a wrong turn, but we've moved away from the potential for the parks
to be used at the QBE campus.
So we're still behind in terms of meeting a service need.
When I look through each of these slides, we talk about our befunding looking at the design
phases, but we still don't get us to the finish line or potentially not to the finish line.
The construction phase for the building is opposed to loans of grants, the town center master
plan, loans of grants that get us in the construction phase, so we're still relying on
futures, how can we use that money now to complete those projects rather than having
to continue to wait and offset? If we wait for the proper money, that's going to be further
down the line. So, I think I heard a point about investment. I think we have made an investment.
With the CARES Act funding that we have done, which we have in the report, the stimulus
money that we've gotten from the federal government, I think there's a lot of efforts
that we've tried to do to offset the fiscal impact that the country is serving, I think, particularly our residents.
But we are at a disadvantage. We have a town center where we don't even meet our own zoning regulations.
Grab a parking lot, don't meet any of the landscaping standards and yet we're making expectations of these new developments
to give us a polished new look, yet we seem to fall behind.
So I feel like these monies, that's why I asked the question earlier about that 250.
Can we not earmark or push money so at least get one of these projects fully funded and not have to rely on future loans or grants or future revenues to be able to fund it?
Can we fund it now?
So that's part of...
Oh my god.
I'm just about to say after the question.
So I think in theory, is it...
Do we have the right to do?
I certainly think we have the right to do it.
Is it the right thing to do?
I'm still on the fence that this is the right time to pull that trigger.
I think I heard some of the comments about, in security of the future, I feel like we still need to tread lightly.
I think we need to be conservative about the funding that we do have available.
About the opinion that we need to put that investment now and not continue to delay.
The need is now. The need is yesterday.
And so the priority being getting the sidewalk done and fully funded, I think we can move that quicker.
I think the way we had gone about that project may have moved a little bit farther along or delayed a little bit.
The town of part building in that space, whether we use that part space or not, we need bathrooms now, we need a Mr. Mac.
The farmers market is popular, it is growing, and I think we need to go ahead and finish out this project as quickly as we can as well.
So that's my only concern, is by doing this,
the 250, are we eliminating, or are we further delaying?
Or, I think we talked about some of the future revenues
that we anticipate having.
Do we run the risk of having this project's future delayed
in the future budget year?
I've said the same thing several times,
but that's the opinion that I am now.
Someone who just bought a house, it probably
the higher end of the market, I'm going to feel that real estate
by someone who has kids in schools,
I'm feeling the zoning changes and a lot of things that are happening.
So I think a particular position to say is going to hurt.
But with that, that costs back be nice certainly,
but if it's the risk of pushing other projects down the line
to future years, I think we're going to run the risk of being
not being in the same financial situation later
and still being back to where we were before.
So, thank you.
Can't go around for rebuttals, but in answer to your question now, it's not going to make a difference.
And I think this will be laid out earlier. There are a variety of different revenue streams that are out.
And whether we, whether we do it, whether we incumber it now or later, it's not going to make a damn that a difference in terms of the timeline.
You know, I think you're marking 250,000 dollars for the sidewalk is going to make it get paved one day earlier.
You're marking 250,000 dollars to this, to this town center project, is it going to make it happen one year earlier?
The money's out there and this is why we looked at this holistically across all the different
revenue streams and with the timelines, the projected timelines for the projects, figuring
where the revenue streams are going to stand, where do we have capital, what's going to happen,
how much capital becomes available when we retire the debt service through normal, through
normal policies.
And when you're talking about projects, the magnitude of the town center project.
That's not something you generally fund with cash on hand and we should be in a position, depending on what the rates are.
But we're in a very good position to fund anything that we need to fund with longer term bonds, which is the better way to do it.
Yes, we can accommodate some things in a short term, but there's only so much we can do.
We haven't even issued the bloody RFP on the sidewalk yet.
So it's throwing, is earmarking money out of it that we won't be around to ensure that
it actually gets spent on that, going to make it happen one day sooner, the answer is no.
Is it going to make, if we don't do it, is it going to make it one day slower?
No.
But I think that's where we, I think that's tell me if I'm talking out of turn here.
But I think that's why we're looking at this across the board and down the road.
Where is the money going to be not just this year, but next year and the year after that?
Is there going to be a sufficient revenue stream to do that?
We've already broached the subject of an additional officer with the chief in some of the
There's only so much we can do right now, just because of the way we have to go through the contracting process and the planning process and how long things have taken us.
I mean, if $250,000 could make the sidewalk go faster, I'd be all for it, but it's not going to.
How about then you talked about not typically paying with clad cash?
We typically don't have RP funds.
We not reallocate all those RP funds to fully fund that.
Put it in the lock box to higher interest rates so it sits there and gains interest.
And have that fully funded and then use the rest of the master plan and the other projects
pull from those other revenues.
And what do you want to pay for with the RP funds?
I mean, that's why we put it in the lock box.
Well, here's the problem.
So that we could take advantage of the different revenue streams that combined.
If we're going to, there's also $400,000 in maintenance and CIP money in the budget.
It's frustrated by this.
It's a natural budget.
Looking at the particular construction phase, it seems like we're at a point now where
we, none of the projects were able to get to construction phase in the current financial
situation that we are in right now.
I don't think you're correct on that.
Right, we can.
Right now, we're relying on the future, and that's what concerns me is we're waiting
for these monies to come in, and that's going to push it out to further years.
You know, I think we've got enough money on hand to finish some of the construction phases.
We've been affected that year.
Specifically the park and the town center.
This says loans and grants.
They're ready, not ours.
Those are options for other additional sources of revenue.
I think the way I'm looking at it, we should have plenty of money to do.
Roberto, I weigh off base here, given the assets we currently have, and will likely have within
the next 12 to 18 months, we should have enough capital if we so chose.
It isn't that we have that counter argument that we shouldn't be relying on funds that are
not a significant amount of tariff or money, and it's coming in, or will be coming in on a fairly regular basis unless you think the van meters are going to suddenly stop building halfway through a townhouse.
So what I ask this another way, and I appreciate for the debate, is the finance group feels like we can through
ARPA funds, combination of ARPA funds, and profit dollars, funds through the construction phase of at least one of these projects or two of these projects.
I think between Joe, kick me if I'm wrong.
I think between ARPA funds, profit funds, what's built into the CIP portion of the budget that we've already, I think it's like $300,000.
something like that, 200 or something. Between that, unrealized proper money yet without having
to rely on next year's revenues, next year's, next year's, surpluses or any grants, I think
we could finish two of the projects, yes.
Appreciate the banter. The other sort of way I looked at as well is our underperforming assets.
right we have the we had some forming us with the museum the earliest miss we got the park right
now we don't have a public restroom that's an immediate need so those are monies that the
250 thousand dollars could cause yes no so that's under concern too is if we're going to push that
improvement off another 12 to 18 months that's a need that's going to soon as these houses get occupied that's a
that's generated immediately.
I get it, but are you going to construct a separate stand-alone restroom facility, apart
from the existing structure, or are you going to provide a temporary one until you're not
in it?
I guess I'm going to say, why build a permanent solution, or semi-permanent solution to the
restaurant, to the restroom problem, when you don't know what the status of the building
is?
And that's my point is if it's within a $250,000 budget,
and we can pull that cut, if we go get our estimates,
if we hold on to this money for now, look at what those estimates
might be, whether we use it as a meeting space,
whether we use it as a public restroom,
or if we turn the whole thing down and rebuild from scratch,
can we go to that exercise that could potentially be used
for this $250 grand, and not have to wait,
because what we have available, all they gotta do
is get the design, pull the trigger and off we go.
I don't think that $250,000 would make a difference
given the time line. I mean we don't even we haven't even got in the engineers in
there yet. So I mean we're talking. I mean I get it. We're talking 18 months
at best until you turn a spade and we've already locked boxed. How much?
How long was it
taken us to get the RFP for the sidewalk? You think that's going to happen any faster?
I don't all the saying there's there's other things perhaps low thing for that we could have a more impactful immediate immediate need
versus continuing to sort of push off that push off and have these projects continue to be pushed out to future
I don't think we're pushing things off. I think we're actually John actually getting you a plan to fund them and fund them right now
This was a holistic thing across the entire across the entire spectrum
And I think the term I had heard earlier was trying to balance both, right, and meeting the CIP needs, and meeting the...
If you're asking me what I said earlier, I said it's a balance approach.
Balance approach?
Trying to listen then.
Yeah.
No, it's...
Did hear someone saying no texting and driving.
I said...
My opinion that's...
Oh, you heard that one.
I think that was her.
Yeah.
You should be texting.
Why you're driving?
Confirm.
So, I mean, I'm not going to go through the whole...
Let me...
No, you don't need to again.
Okay.
But essentially what I said was that I think it's a very balanced approach for the town
We are making investments in the CIP. We are making investments in the people in the businesses by giving back some money that they could sorely use
Okay, I think we're missing a couple of things here and Roberto can clarify it this meeting or another meeting
What have you but we have a number of unrestricted net assets that's incredible for this town in my opinion
I don't know what the number is, he probably has in the top of his head, but it's the most I've ever seen.
So we have funding available.
We have a very strong reserve.
I'm not even sure what we have in reserve anymore.
Given the fact that we have about 36%.
36%.
Most communities run at what?
15?
15 is available.
So we have funds available if need be.
But we still have to figure out what are we going to do?
We need to have the strategy discussion and figure out what we're going to be investing in and we need an implementation.
Yeah, I thought we had, which is the three projects we talked about.
We do, but we still, I mean, because we're hearing other things here that are in need,
Ken's talking about his framework, also talking about doing an assessment of all the assets in the town.
What?
Would those be separate exercises independent of this?
Yeah. Well, the kid help inform. We're doing our strategy.
It's just we obviously couldn't have anything else that's happened.
It's been a long time since we've had a significant...
We're going to...
Strategic planning.
It's just what it's boiling down today.
What's that?
Strategic planning.
Okay, I just...
It makes me nervous that we continue.
We've not had a major project under construction.
We had the need coming.
We have the sidewalks that we're going to have to look into, it just feels like we should.
Okay.
I send my piece.
Thank you.
Yeah, and I think we've addressed all these outside of you, not being here too.
Like I said, vibrato around, but I guess Tracy Lynn, are you done, Joe?
Okay.
You have a comment tracing Chris?
My position is still the same.
I think it is a mistake for us to push ahead and spend this money as part of this.
the real estate tax refund. I think there's one thing that we're missing in the whole equation.
We hired a staff for a particular reason. We depend on our staff for a particular reason.
You guys have heard our staff member, the treasurer, shared his opinion and he's been here
watch different councils over the years and his opinion on this is not the best use of the money
at this point in time and I don't think we are paying attention to what he's saying. I'm going
to hold firm to my convictions that this is not the right time. It is not the right approach. I think
could look at a real estate refund, but we need to do more research. This presentation was probably
one of the best ones that we've ever had that I've ever sat through in my eight years. The
depth of what we went through with the presentation is one of the best ones that I've seen,
but I still think that we are missing the board in not giving due diligence and due respect to
the treasure and the tone staff has altered in his opinion of the money and I think we are
making a mistake on it and I understand it's democracy and majority rules but it's I'm I'm
I'm holding firm to my convictions that there are other service areas that we could use this money
to to better the entire community are not just the business owners or the
residential owners. Thank you sir. Okay, and I know you had a lot of cross-talk, but I'll give you the last word.
My final question.
No, I just, I think this is a good exercise.
Deliberate exercise. I appreciate the background and the discussion. I think my points and counter points.
I hopefully we're not disrespectful to your efforts that we're going on.
So I appreciate the deliberative exercise. I am not comfortable at this point.
that we don't lose an opportunity by putting the surplus by giving out the surplus.
I understand the intent. I understand the need and that's where the council goes.
I'll be right behind it. The only other thing I'd say is it's it's a little
it's interesting. There's two ways to read no public comment. You don't know what has an issue with it.
Or people didn't know about it. So we don't we have no way to measure that
when nobody's here. So that's why I asked a really question public comment.
feedback, we have not seen that so we can sort of do a publication blitz under the public hearing
and putting on our agendas but I don't know that I will just point that that would advance
the discussion.
They further, if we got more public input on which way to win again, would they better use
of having the funds come in or would they be comfortable having those monies put into some
more immediate need.
So at this point, I'm not prepared tonight to vote yes to the surplus.
I just tap onto something if these allow me to. I will be short if I give you and that's fine.
That's fine. But I just think we do need to make an extra effort to get more public input.
And Martian made a key point maybe the public didn't really know what was going on.
And we know the participation of our community members that sometimes it takes some pride in for them to get involved.
I don't know if it means for us to go outside and do the blitz or do something else to get people involved.
But I think like the 7 of us, it's not enough to figure out what the community really wants or what their comments are.
Maybe we could table it and get some more comments, find different ways to get their comments on certain things.
I would support that, but I cannot support making a rash judgment on $250,000 for a real estate refund.
Thank you for your generosity.
Okay, Bob.
Try and maintain my clunks. I'm getting pretty damn pissed off.
You don't want to hear about rash.
You guys have heard about this for four guys.
In Joe and I have worked with the treasurer and the time manager on this four months.
There is nothing rash about this.
As to the treasurer's input. I don't appreciate you guys putting them on the spot. This isn't his call. This is a policy decision.
This is a policy decision that falls on us and I didn't say this earlier because it was a kind of advanced the argument
But that's our responsibility
and putting him on the spot and
Using him against the I mean that that that that that's really problematic for me
If if it weren't a policy this if if if this wasn't our responsibility to deal with
If it wasn't a hard question that we have to make the decision on and
We were just going to leave it to the treasure to make all of those decisions and why do we
vote on the budget, why do we draft the budget, why do we even sit here?
This is all responsibility and I could not take loose in the vote, I can, you know, but
one of the reasons that you're setting up here is to make the heart decision and this is one
of those heart decisions and after all the works that Roberto and Emily have put into this
all the time that Joe and I have spent on it. There's nothing rash about this. There's nothing
there's nothing where this is sneaking up on anybody.
I mean, what did I start bringing this up before we, before we adopted last the current budget?
Four months ago? Nothing that I said, said you were wrong. I'm not accusing you.
You're not the one who said rash. We just wanted to make sure there was no surprises.
Yeah, there's no surprises here and I don't I don't I don't like the fact that you guys are putting
Wanted to put in the treasure and a rough spot. No treasure is going to tell you to give money back
That's not what I guess
I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm just going to get off my cell box and I'm not going to say anything else
If you don't put on the spot, I would apologize for that.
Most of my, what I do is a full-time job, every report that ever comes out, that
office is expected to have a staff recommendation.
That's expected.
With a time was off for that, I would apologize.
But they would always, as an alternative to the policy decision makers, whatever other options
are there opportunities.
And that's what I meant by that comment.
But I would always expect that we would have a staff recommendation.
And it's not to be contrary into what the council is saying, but it was more of other immediate
opportunities that we could put that into, ask questions answered, ask an answer, and I think
we're fine.
And on the comment of RASH, maybe I did use an improper word, and there has been deliberate
discussions on it, and I apologize for using the word RASH.
If I put you on this spot, I don't apologize, because I depend on your input.
So if you're expecting an apology from me for putting it in a spot. I'm not given one
Thank you, sir. Okay, I think we're set for the we're just apologizing and trying to
Group hug yeah, so roll call vote, please
No
I do appreciate the time and effort you guys put into. That's good exercise.
Yep, you did hear my opinion on that too. Okay, we're on to the next round of agenda items.
Council member time. Vice Mayor, you're first.
Thank you.
I wanted to say thank you for all that came out to the summer concert. It was a huge success.
and I do appreciate the continued support
at the farmers market and the community garden.
So our business roundtable, the quarterly event,
will be September 20th, but date was marked wrong
within the agenda, so September 20th, 830.
We're going to be highlighting some marketing going
into the fall holiday season.
And then I would just like to remind everyone
we would love to have citizen input.
If you're unable to make citizen time during our monthly meeting,
things feel free to email your comments and they get read into our minutes.
Okay, Councilmember Morif.
Thank you, sir.
Ms. Emily, congratulations.
Five years.
I know you've been through a lot.
Like a lot.
You survived during some tough moments.
So, thank you for your dedication to the tone.
Staff, financial liaison.
Once, thank you for the financial presentation that you put forward.
This, again, I said it, but this has probably been one of the best presentations I've ever
seen while sitting here.
And I knew that if Mary was here, maybe we would have had the mayor to break the vote.
But my last comment is the 33rd annual Haymarket Day Celebration October 15th.
get into word out. Thank you sir. Okay. Council member Schneider. Do appreciate the
courtesy and extended to me with my schedule today. Do appreciate the time and
taking the time to say schools in session. I think my kids are doing well.
Chief, thanks for the efforts at the police making. I'm getting that done. Thanks for
staff to reach an out to the council members about the various topics that we've
to weigh in on and I do appreciate that. In addition to Hamarket Day we also have the election
coming up. So we all please reach out to our friends and neighbors and people that we interact
with and just encourage them to come out and make their vote heard. Thanks.
Okay. Council Member Pasanella. I really appreciate the sausage making tonight. It's been a very
the kids of state and lighten and illuminating discussion but that's that's what it's all about.
We discuss it, we vote and we move on. So Kudos to everybody here in the staff as well for putting
that information out there. I want to raise the fact that we have an anniversary coming on Sunday,
9-11, never forget where we commemorate those innocence that lost their lives and as well as
others who have lost their lives due to the response after.
So I think we should keep that very close to our hearts.
I want to thank Officer King Chan for helping me out Chief.
There was a gentleman with his son before I was going to New York that morning who was
lost, didn't know where he was going.
He was trying to get his son signed up for school, five years old, neither one of them could
speak a lick of English, I think they spoke Mandarin, or Cantonese, it wasn't sure.
So I reached out to King Nalbout, and he sorted it all out, so it's just phenomenal.
And he saved me a lot of driving and running around trying to figure that out.
Also, I want to thank the PD and the admins support and the service and attending the service
for Braxton Folk that was really, we had a really good turn out, and I was really happy to
see Jenny tonight, she got to me when she was talking and that other lady, if I could
get her a name, about lymphoma, you don't see a lot of that in children, but it is growing
and she's doing exactly what needs to be done relative to research and funding research
search. There's not enough research done for pediatric cancers. We have to do a lot more.
So, and with that, of course, it's a childhood cancer awareness month. And 40% of childhood
cancers are blood cancers. And it's also blood cancer awareness month this month. So, just
want to raise that awareness, everybody. And last but not least, for everybody,
it's also
that. Yes. So that's all I have for tonight and thank you very much.
Councilman, where?
The only thing I've got is just wanted to keep everybody a prize that
next Wednesday is the Planning Commission County Planning Commission
meeting on the digital gateway comprehensive plan amendments.
I will be there. Emily doesn't want to go.
So I'll be presenting the town's comments on that.
I would encourage anybody who has an interest in that to please attend.
Although if you're going to come bring up pillow because I suspect it's going to be a very long night.
Maybe two or three in the morning.
Okay, I guess that leaves me piggybacking off of Joe.
Yeah, VRE is celebrating this month with a few tickets.
So, it might be interesting if anybody wants to take advantage of that, I do plan on trying
to take my parents down to Union Station, having a meal there and then coming back.
Just on the berries, take it.
Also, I guess, reminder for you guys, we do have a few invitations out there that are coming
up.
That need to be RSVPed in the next couple of weeks, so if you guys are interested in attending,
feel free. He would like to thank Jenny for all she's done. She those ribbons, even though
they make a statement, they also beautify the town. And I love to see that participation
within town. And I'll leave it at that.
Mr. Mayor.
Move to adjourn.
Got a motion in second on favor.
I'm just waiting in the bar if you want to go.