1 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,920 uh 2 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:25,840 and we're live 3 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:34,480 good afternoon everyone welcome to the regular board meeting for january 27 4 00:00:31,279 --> 00:00:36,960 2021 and before we begin i'd like to recognize this meeting is taking place 5 00:00:36,160 --> 00:00:40,399 as a place in various locations throughout coast 6 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,520 salish territory and i know that i'm thankful to be here with that we will 7 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:46,879 get underway are there any additions or changes to 8 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:51,120 the agenda ms lago none okay thank you so i'll ask for a 9 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:53,520 motion to approve the agenda as presented 10 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:57,199 moved by director sebring seconded by director topperowski 11 00:00:54,960 --> 00:01:01,039 any discussion seeing none all those in favor 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:05,439 and he opposed none opposed motion carries moving on ms lego 13 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:09,439 thank you um adoption of the regular board meeting minutes of january 13 14 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:14,799 2021 and i would like to bring a correction to the board's attention in 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:20,400 resolution 21-21.3 the function number stated was 279 16 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,159 community community parks and should be functioned 17 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:27,759 to 80 regional parks so with that correction if i can have a 18 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,880 motion to adopt the minutes as amended moved by director 19 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:34,560 yanni dinardo seconded by director nicholson any 20 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:41,200 discussion seeing none all those in favor and any opposed 21 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,479 and oppose motion carries moving on miss lego 22 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:47,840 no business arising from the minute so on to public input period 23 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:54,640 we have one submission good afternoon mr chair this is from susan kaufman 24 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:59,040 good afternoon mr chair i'd like to provide input on item sr3 virtual 25 00:01:56,799 --> 00:02:01,920 meetings and live public participation i'd like to thank staff for the report 26 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:06,159 and hope the board will endorse the recommendations of option one but seek 27 00:02:03,759 --> 00:02:10,160 clarification of the following items item a in the event of significant 28 00:02:08,319 --> 00:02:14,160 public interest agenda items how will the extended public input submissions be 29 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,640 accommodated as per the public input policy 30 00:02:14,959 --> 00:02:20,720 that is extending the length of public input by two-thirds majority vote 31 00:02:18,959 --> 00:02:24,239 also applicable to question period as noted above 32 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:28,879 and in item d concerned that if public input participation is by video only 33 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:33,200 not everyone has access to internet and or are available during daytime meetings 34 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,239 that written submissions be sent directly to members as opposed to being 35 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,599 read out loud while public input is meant for the 36 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,959 directors it also benefits the public to hear from others within the community 37 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,160 and suggest reading written submissions if time allows 38 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:49,440 mr chair at one time the chair of the meetings could refer questions received 39 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:53,280 from the public to staff members or allow the directors to provide comment 40 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:56,720 over time that evolved to having only the chair respond to questions 41 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:59,519 some chairs are quite well informed and provide answers while some unfortunately 42 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,720 do not whether by inexperience or lack of 43 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:05,040 knowledge this leads to a less than satisfactory experience 44 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,680 for the members of the public participating in question period and 45 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,599 hopefully this practice will be reviewed i'd like to 46 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:15,040 thank all those who chair the cvrd meetings not an easy job 47 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,239 it is greatly appreciated when a chair does acknowledge the participation by 48 00:03:16,640 --> 00:03:23,519 members of the public in both public input and question period 49 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:27,680 and that concludes public input thank you very much and we always 50 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:30,400 appreciate input from the public and we've done 51 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,920 i think as we're looking forward to doing as much as we possibly can to 52 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:37,760 enable that input um and we'll discuss that when the item 53 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:40,319 comes up ms lego 54 00:03:41,519 --> 00:03:47,840 thank you i'm just going to bring the delegations into 55 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:58,000 so item d1 is a delegation george parker director of planning gp rollo and 56 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,720 associates and john horn accounts couch and housing 57 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:05,599 regarding the regional housing needs assessment and this is for information 58 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:08,799 thank you very much and welcome mr parker and i believe i see mr horn here 59 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:13,599 as well um is that the contingent of your 60 00:04:10,959 --> 00:04:17,120 delegation presentation today mr parker that's it okay thank you so welcome to 61 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,239 both of you and thank you so much for this work 62 00:04:18,639 --> 00:04:23,759 obviously john hears it enough from us so i'm not going to say it to him but 63 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,280 uh george thank you so much for all your work on this project and i know we're 64 00:04:25,199 --> 00:04:30,880 excited to uh to review the information in the powerpoint 65 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:37,440 so please go ahead great um i'm gonna share my screen now 66 00:04:33,199 --> 00:04:37,440 um since i have the powerpoint here 67 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:46,560 does that look good it's good okay excellent 68 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:52,000 uh and john will take it from the top okay that's the first act so to speak so 69 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:55,040 good afternoon and thanks for having us my name is john horn from college and 70 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,000 housing association and of course i'm here with george 71 00:04:56,160 --> 00:05:01,280 parker from gp rule to present the results 72 00:04:58,639 --> 00:05:06,479 of the cvrd regional housing needs assessment 73 00:05:03,039 --> 00:05:10,800 so we wanted to begin by acknowledging that this work took place in the 74 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:14,880 traditional territories of college and tribes 75 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:21,919 the digital first nation first nation by accident first nation um mala had 76 00:05:18,479 --> 00:05:25,680 analogous tsubasa first nation package impersonation 77 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:28,240 amongst others and we're grateful to the housing staff 78 00:05:26,639 --> 00:05:32,800 from those first nations who shared their knowledge during this project 79 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:35,759 we also want to thank one in 250 community members 80 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:39,600 who shared their ideas and their lived experience and the long list of 81 00:05:37,840 --> 00:05:42,479 stakeholders who participated in interviews 82 00:05:40,479 --> 00:05:46,560 or attended one of our housing community cafes we wanted to 83 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:51,280 thank them without their input this report would not have been possible 84 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:54,320 the one we're presenting today is as one of a family 85 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:58,000 of reports of course we're presenting on the overall cbrd regional housing needs 86 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:02,319 assessment today but the work also includes 13 87 00:05:59,919 --> 00:06:06,000 sub-regional reports in which we'll be presenting those at future 88 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:10,400 dates to specific um meetings of the cbrd and the 89 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:15,440 municipalities etc so the um the presentation today begins 90 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:18,639 with the qualitative findings and we're kind of an overview of our 91 00:06:17,199 --> 00:06:23,360 engagement activities the key themes we heard from the 92 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,759 community and key findings by population group 93 00:06:24,479 --> 00:06:29,840 then george will take us through the quantitative findings including the 94 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:34,479 information on background research housing price trends 95 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:38,560 affordability and projections so from our perspective we just wanted 96 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:42,880 to give you a bit of an overall view of the community engagement 97 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:48,240 and the engagement process and some of the outcomes associated with that 98 00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:50,800 so our engagement process included a place speak 99 00:06:49,039 --> 00:06:55,120 questionnaire which ran through september and october 100 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:59,520 and we received about 250 responses to that questionnaire 101 00:06:56,560 --> 00:07:03,039 we held three virtual community cafes which brought together about 16 102 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,960 organizations including the health authorities 103 00:07:04,479 --> 00:07:12,160 community service organizations schools chambers of commerce etc 104 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:15,280 and each community cafe that we held had a specific theme there were three themes 105 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:19,520 all together housing and health housing and youth 106 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:24,479 slash families and then housing and the economy we 107 00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:27,759 reached out also to 33 organizations for interviews 108 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:31,120 including community organizations housing organizations housing providers 109 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,479 and developers and we interviewed housing managers at 110 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:38,560 eight first nations so that's an overview of the engagement 111 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:42,319 that took place and from that a couple of key themes 112 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,599 emerged you'll see them there and i'll just 113 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:50,000 speak briefly to them and just say that on the first theme um our engagement 114 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:53,440 feedback we got during our engagement really 115 00:07:50,639 --> 00:07:57,520 does confirm that the demand on housing and the rising prices we're seeing 116 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:01,360 are not likely to change in the next five years 117 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:05,599 there's lots of topics about housing size and one aspect of that is that 118 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:10,160 seniors looking to downsize and they're looking for smaller and more 119 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:13,520 affordable affordable units the third no surprise to anybody the 120 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,160 calcium valley is home to an asian population 121 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:20,479 one of the aspects of that is that rising maintenance costs 122 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,800 and mobility needs are a concern for seniors 123 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:27,199 and they're really looking for options in which they can age in place 124 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:31,280 on the other end of the spectrum younger generations have housing challenges 125 00:08:29,199 --> 00:08:35,440 and they considered concerns about housing and stability 126 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:39,279 and unaffordability really for youth and for young families 127 00:08:37,279 --> 00:08:42,399 there is an acute shortage of rental housing we all know that 128 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:47,279 um this is especially true in the electoral areas and for young people 129 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:51,040 indigenous people and those with mental health challenges 130 00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:54,640 singles and seniors so a fairly broad section of the community is 131 00:08:52,560 --> 00:08:59,760 experiencing the impact of having that acute shortage of rental housing 132 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:04,160 uh the housing prices and the costs are really we're seeing those that they're 133 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:08,240 misaligned with regional wages and one of the outcomes of that we see is 134 00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:11,440 that people are locating where housing is available 135 00:09:09,519 --> 00:09:15,519 rather than where they would prefer to live and what that really does is it 136 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:18,800 just pushes their transportation costs up quite a bit higher 137 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,680 so that's one aspect that maybe gets missed sometimes but 138 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:26,640 when your wages don't match your housing costs you have to live in areas that 139 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:30,880 require long commutes to work into home the housing options again adequately 140 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:34,880 size for first nations family there's really a need for larger 141 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:38,800 multi-generational families as well as smaller units for elders and 142 00:09:36,959 --> 00:09:42,240 singles with communal space and these kind of housing projects 143 00:09:40,399 --> 00:09:45,920 should have access to criminal uh community services and cultural 144 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:50,160 amenities so they're not just housing there's a bit of a 145 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:54,480 another context that it fits within affordable housing is hard to find even 146 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:58,720 any rental housing that can attach to that is hard to find in this 147 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:01,279 community and so really it's low-income families 148 00:09:59,519 --> 00:10:04,000 lone parent families are really having a struggle to find the housing that's in 149 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:08,320 the price range for the size that they need for their 150 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:11,120 family and then really there is a need for more 151 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:15,839 non-market housing options and that's really a key around supportive housing 152 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:19,279 emergency housing options for those with mental health conditions or 153 00:10:17,519 --> 00:10:23,920 cognitive or physical disabilities that's uh that's uh evident to most 154 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:28,160 folks who spend time in the community so you'll see that the engagement yield 155 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:32,480 these broad themes which i'm sure george will flesh out with more data but 156 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:36,560 in terms of the findings we just wanted to cluster those by population and then 157 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:41,279 i'll turn this over to george uh one thing is i would say that youth 158 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:45,200 are at high risk of homelessness um but more to the point that when young 159 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,839 people are moving into their first home or 160 00:10:45,680 --> 00:10:51,760 leaving say the residential care system or the foster care system 161 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:55,360 that they have a fairly setting unique needs around housing and that's such 162 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:58,880 things as staff supervision and support there's a 163 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,880 need to take into account that educational needs for those who left 164 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,160 school early for example but also the developmental needs they 165 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,640 may be old enough to go rent an apartment but 166 00:11:06,959 --> 00:11:13,440 developmentally they still have needs that are unmet and we have to look 167 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:18,079 closer at that context in which youth are not finding housing and when they do 168 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:23,200 an additional level of support for them that's really not common for adult 169 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:27,120 renters etc i would say the housing for newcomers into the region 170 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:30,640 uh specifically they have a real need for multi-generational housing that's 171 00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:33,440 the demographics that come to our country and 172 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:36,320 they bring typically fairly large families with them 173 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:39,360 and so the kind of housing they need on the incomes they're able to access when 174 00:11:38,079 --> 00:11:42,880 they first arrive is really not available to them in the 175 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,920 way it should be and so there is a strong need for that 176 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:49,760 and there's also a need for them to have a pedestrian access because 177 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:54,000 typically in arrival they may not have a car or be a 178 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:56,720 licensed to drive in this country etc so their needs kind of 179 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:01,279 factor a little bit around their ability to cut out things by 180 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:04,160 by putting by public transit um for those with special needs 181 00:12:02,560 --> 00:12:08,240 um we've talked a lot with service providers and parents and 182 00:12:05,839 --> 00:12:11,200 recipients of service and one thing they do say is that 183 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:14,480 most of the services are centralized in the urban areas 184 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:19,360 what they would like to see in the perfect world would be that 185 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:23,680 more distributed model where people who grew up in a particular part of the 186 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:26,480 community can remain in that area they have their social supports their family 187 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,800 connections that their social ties and their um ways of 188 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,399 being in those communities and they have to disrupt themselves to move to a 189 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:37,200 different part of the cvrd in order to find housing 190 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:40,240 so we'd like to see more housing for special needs that's in the 191 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:43,760 neighborhoods in which people grow up in a race and they can maintain their 192 00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:47,760 natural supports without having to leave those for housing finally we would 193 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:50,880 talk about homelessness and those experiencing homelessness are at risk of 194 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:55,440 homelessness there is of course uh additional needs for emergency 195 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:59,680 sheltering and long-term options for those experiencing homelessness and 196 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,120 there's certainly a concentration of services uh 197 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:06,720 supporting that group in duncan and north carolina 198 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,839 and again when you take people out of their home communities it becomes harder 199 00:13:08,399 --> 00:13:12,399 for them to access their natural supports and 200 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:15,279 we'd like to see a more distributed model there as well so people are able 201 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:19,600 to maintain those social ties and those family ties 202 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:23,279 and the communities they were raised in so that's really just an overview of the 203 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:27,839 key findings by population and um a broad overview of a qualitative uh 204 00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:31,200 perspective of what we encountered when we undertook the the 205 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,000 process of uh discussing and dialoguing with the 206 00:13:32,639 --> 00:13:37,200 community and then analyzing the findings 207 00:13:34,959 --> 00:13:40,079 so i'll stop there and i'll turn it over to george to go through more of the 208 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:46,480 quantitative line so thank you for your attention 209 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:50,320 thanks john um so my name is george parker i'm from gp 210 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:55,279 rollo and associates and i was hired to 211 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,920 work on the quantitative components of this project 212 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:05,920 as part of the housing needs assessment we were required to process a great deal 213 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:11,040 of data from the 2006 2011 and 2016 censuses 214 00:14:08,959 --> 00:14:17,360 the government of bc provided a custom data set specifically for this purpose 215 00:14:14,079 --> 00:14:21,600 the data in this data set might differ from other census data you've seen 216 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:25,760 because it excludes individuals outside of private households 217 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:28,000 for example people living in care homes this data this government sanctioned 218 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,680 data set is used throughout this research in the 219 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:35,600 interest of consistency we don't have time to cover all of the 220 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,160 background research so this is a curated selection 221 00:14:39,519 --> 00:14:46,240 this graph shows the rate of population growth in each jurisdiction 222 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:49,920 in the last five years in teal and in the last 10 years 223 00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:54,399 in green and that's from the perspective of 2016. 224 00:14:51,279 --> 00:14:59,120 so between 2006 and 2016 bc grew in population from 4.1 million 225 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:05,360 to 4.6 million 12 percent growth whereas the cvrd 226 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:11,680 grew from 75 000 to 82 000 8 growth so as you can see the cvrd 227 00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:16,959 uh grew at about two-thirds the pace as the of the province within the cvrd 228 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:22,320 jurisdictions that grew particularly rapidly included ladysmith 229 00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:26,560 and electoral areas a b and d and duncan and electoral area f both 230 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:30,720 decreased in population by about seven percent during this 231 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:35,360 period although in both cases this decline took place 232 00:15:31,839 --> 00:15:42,880 entirely in the 2006 to 2011 period so the first half of that decade 233 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:48,720 this graph shows the share of households that rent in each jurisdiction 234 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:51,920 over time from 2006 to 2016 renters as a share of all households in 235 00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:56,240 bc increased slightly from about thirty percent to 236 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:59,519 about thirty two percent a smaller share of households in the 237 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,759 cvrd are renters but the same upward trend is present 238 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:09,199 from about twenty percent to about twenty two percent over the decade 239 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:13,199 the cvrd has a renter share of about 22 percent overall 240 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:16,240 uh lady smith exhibits about the same share 241 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:23,600 uh but north carolina and lake coaching have more renters about 25 242 00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:28,079 and duncan has far more renters about 46 the electoral areas exhibit a wide range 243 00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:31,600 of renter shares and trajectories but generally have a lower share of 244 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:34,000 renter households than the cvrd as a whole 245 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:39,199 although during this decade electoral areas f and i 246 00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:43,440 surpassed the region reaching 23 and 25 percent respectively 247 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:48,720 electoral area g bucked the trend with a continuously decreasing renter share 248 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:54,720 down from 12 percent to 10 percent making it the jurisdiction 249 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,720 with the lowest renter share in 2016. 250 00:16:55,600 --> 00:17:03,279 this graph shows median household income in each jurisdiction over time 251 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:08,799 the cvrd was slightly less affluent than bc throughout this decade 252 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:13,839 from 2006 to 2016 median household incomes increased 253 00:17:09,919 --> 00:17:20,640 in both bc from 62 000 to 70 000 and in the cvrd from 60 000 to 65 000 254 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:23,360 but the above figures and this graphic are nominal figures that include 255 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:27,439 inflation if you account if you account for 256 00:17:25,039 --> 00:17:33,039 inflation uh you get this graphic you can see here 257 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:39,360 that median household income in bc actually stagnated in real terms 258 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:44,640 uh and these are in 2019 dollars from 76 000 to 75 259 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:51,840 000 and the cvrd it declined from 73 000 to seventy thousand um and the same 260 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,840 is true in most jurisdictions 261 00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:01,120 that was median income if we look at household income distribution 262 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:06,720 this graph shows household income distribution in bc 263 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:12,320 on the left versus the cvrd on the right as it changes from 2006 to 2016. 264 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:17,200 this just gives you a sense of what income distribution tends to look like 265 00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:20,559 the main difference here is that the cvrd is slightly less affluent than the 266 00:18:19,679 --> 00:18:26,400 province but also has less income inequality 267 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:31,600 you can tell because bc has more people in its lowest income and 268 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,600 highest income groups 269 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:40,480 this is a similar comparison between owner households in the cvrd 270 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:44,480 shown on the left and renter households in the cvrd 271 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:50,000 shown on the right for sake of reference in 2016 owner households in the region 272 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:53,679 had a median income of 75 000 while renter households had a median 273 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:57,280 income of 38 000 that's literally half the income per 274 00:18:55,760 --> 00:19:02,400 household this would be the kind of distribution 275 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,400 that would produce that outcome 276 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:11,039 this slide explores that very statistic the solid teal bar shows owner household 277 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:16,559 income the hatched teal bar shows median 278 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:21,039 renter household income and the green bar shows their ratio 279 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:25,919 a higher green bar means owners and renters are more 280 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:29,360 unequal by this measure the cvrd exhibits slightly more inequality 281 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:34,880 between tenure groups than bc generally within the cvrd 282 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:38,320 the most equal jurisdictions are electoral areas a 283 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:44,240 b and h and the most unequal jurisdictions are duncan 284 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:44,240 and electoral areas f g and i 285 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:54,799 this slide compares bc to the cvrd with respect to bedroom counts 286 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:58,080 in bc there were about there was about an even split 287 00:19:55,919 --> 00:20:00,960 between two bedroom three bedroom and four bedroom units about twenty seven 288 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:08,960 percent each in 2016 with fewer one-bedroom units 289 00:20:04,159 --> 00:20:12,799 16 and even fewer studios one percent whereas in the cvrd three bedroom units 290 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,480 dominate at almost forty percent followed by two 291 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:20,240 and four bedroom units at about twenty six percent each and 292 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,799 very few 1 bedroom units less than 10 293 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:29,360 statistics canada defines three housing standards 294 00:20:29,679 --> 00:20:37,520 they are suitability meaning that the dwelling is not overcrowded 295 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:41,440 and has an adequate number of bedrooms in bc the share of all households 296 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:45,760 falling below the suitability standard decreased uh from 2006 to 2016. so 297 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:50,159 that's improvement and compared to bc households in the 298 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:56,720 cvod are less crowded and improvement was also observed 299 00:20:53,280 --> 00:21:00,880 the second housing standard is adequacy meaning that the dwelling does not 300 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:04,559 contain does not need major repairs the share of all households falling 301 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:08,720 below the adequacy standard in bc and the cvrd 302 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:13,760 remained fairly constant from 2006 to 2016 303 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:17,919 and bc and the cvrd performed similarly overall and the third housing standard 304 00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:23,280 is affordability uh defined as a household spending less 305 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,880 than 30 percent of its income on housing expenses 306 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:32,720 in bc the share of all households falling below the affordability standard 307 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:37,120 remain about roughly constant from 2006 to 2016. 308 00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:40,960 compared to bc the cvrd performs slightly more favorably overall 309 00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:49,679 this graph shows renter housing costs in 2016. 310 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:54,880 in 2016 the region had an average monthly rental housing cost 311 00:21:51,760 --> 00:22:00,400 of about 940 that number was somewhat higher at about 950 312 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:05,440 in north carolin and ladysmith and somewhat lower in duncan 313 00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:05,440 at 830. 314 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:15,679 this graph shows average assessed value per unit over time 315 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:19,360 by property type as you can see single family 316 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:24,000 are more valuable per unit and you have multi-family in that middle group there 317 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,200 three different kinds and manufactured homes 318 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:30,720 pulling up the rear with the lowest property values per unit 319 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:37,280 housing prices were stable from 2008 to 2016 320 00:22:34,559 --> 00:22:41,360 because land supply kept up with demand this was likely due to the global 321 00:22:38,799 --> 00:22:45,360 economic recession of 2008 sorry global economic crisis of 2008 and 322 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:48,720 the following recession since 2016 prices have increased in all 323 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:55,600 categories suggesting that demand has increased 324 00:22:50,799 --> 00:22:58,720 more than supply one purpose of a housing needs 325 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:02,960 assessment is to compare housing costs with household incomes 326 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:05,840 for owner households housing costs are a function of housing prices 327 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:10,320 which we had with the property assessment and for renter household 328 00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:12,159 housing costs are a function sorry owner households their function of housing 329 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:16,480 prices renter households they're a function of 330 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:20,320 rental rates uh housing prices we can infer from property assessment data 331 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:24,080 but the most recent government data on household incomes is from 2016 from the 332 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:28,640 census so we needed another source of more 333 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:32,320 current household income data we elected to use the socio-demographic 334 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,280 estimate produced by environics analytics 335 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:38,720 a research firm specializing in this kind of product 336 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,039 at the time of this analysis the most recent environics estimate 337 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:46,960 was from 2019. that's shown here and as you can see 338 00:23:43,919 --> 00:23:51,840 it's a very similar income distribution to what the census showed 339 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:59,520 this graph shows the distribution of housing values 340 00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:03,279 per unit in the cvrd in 2019 we also have this data by housing type 341 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:07,840 and by jurisdiction but uh this just shows you all of it in 342 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:13,039 a single distribution uh we combine these two sources of data 343 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:17,200 that is this slide and the previous one to produce an estimate of housing 344 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,840 affordability for owner households in each jurisdiction 345 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:26,640 on this graphic each line represents a jurisdiction 346 00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:30,720 the horizontal variable is household income and the vertical variable is 347 00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:36,159 housing expenses as income increases so do housing costs 348 00:24:33,679 --> 00:24:40,880 but typically not as quickly income groups falling above the black 349 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:45,039 line spend more than 30 percent of their income on housing and income groups 350 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:49,679 falling above the red line spend more than 50 percent of their 351 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,679 income on housing 352 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:58,640 this graphic gives us a table the middle column 353 00:24:55,679 --> 00:25:02,720 shows the income below which an owner household with a mortgage 354 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:07,360 would be likely to have trouble um falling above the 355 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:12,720 black line that is avoiding uh housing need in each jurisdiction 356 00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:16,559 the right column shows the share of owner households in this 357 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,200 group by this account the most affordable jurisdictions in which to own 358 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,600 property are electoral area b and lake cowagen 359 00:25:21,919 --> 00:25:27,520 probably due to these communities having more manufactured homes 360 00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:32,559 and the least affordable jurisdiction is electoral area i 361 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:36,480 these results indicate that the share of owner households that fall 362 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:40,480 fall below the 30 affordability threshold 363 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:44,720 ranges from 10 percent to 36 percent depending on jurisdiction and has an 364 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:48,640 overall average of 17 which is mostly in line with historical 365 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,000 trends reported in the census uh using different data sources we can 366 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:58,320 provide uh do a similar exercise for renters 367 00:25:56,559 --> 00:26:03,440 so this graph is similar to the last graph but for renters rather than owners 368 00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:05,840 each line represents a jurisdiction you'll notice there's fewer lines 369 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:11,279 because we didn't have as much data so we've 370 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:15,039 grouped together certain jurisdictions as and once again as income increases so 371 00:26:13,919 --> 00:26:19,279 do housing costs but typically not as quickly income 372 00:26:17,679 --> 00:26:23,520 groups falling above the black line spend more than 30 percent of their 373 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:27,760 income on housing and falling above the red line spend more than 50 percent on 374 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,760 house 375 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,760 this table uh for each jurisdiction in the cvrd 376 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:38,320 uh shows the share of renters spending more than 30 percent of their income on 377 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:42,240 housing and the share spending more than fifty 378 00:26:39,919 --> 00:26:44,799 percent about forty percent of the region 379 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:52,880 region's renters are in core housing need and about fourteen percent are in 380 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:56,320 extreme housing and finally this table shows the overall 381 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,200 totals which include owner and renter households 382 00:26:58,799 --> 00:27:05,200 about 22 percent of all households in the region are in core housing need 383 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,840 and about four percent are in extreme core housing 384 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,400 moving on to projections 385 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:22,880 we were asked in this process to use the population and housing projections 386 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:27,039 produced by reni intelligence in 2019 however rennie produced four projections 387 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,880 which differ chiefly in terms of how closely the urban 388 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:37,440 containment boundary is respected starting in 2017. for our 2019 estimate 389 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:41,360 we therefore elected to uh sorry these scenarios 390 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:45,200 diverge starting in 2017. therefore running not only provides four versions 391 00:27:43,279 --> 00:27:48,640 of the future but four versions of the present 392 00:27:46,399 --> 00:27:52,880 for our 2019 estimate the we therefore elected to stick with environics 393 00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:58,720 with the exception of lake cowagen where renny's scenario 3 is used in both 2019 394 00:27:55,679 --> 00:28:01,039 and 2025 which we'll get to later as this more closely matches the growth 395 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,559 trajectory that lake cowage and staff anticipate of 396 00:28:03,919 --> 00:28:11,120 the four ready scenarios available to us which is the most appropriate well the 397 00:28:09,039 --> 00:28:14,880 four scenarios differ only with respect to how closely the urban containment 398 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:18,880 boundary is observed they therefore differ with respect to 399 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:23,440 housing supply factors that is development approval rather than 400 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:29,520 housing demand factors uh with a given level of demand uh which 401 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:34,399 our research indicates is very high in the cowachin valley the more land supply 402 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:39,039 is available for development the more affordable housing will tend to 403 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,039 become in the region 404 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,559 therefore in the interest of maximizing affordability we elected to use 405 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,600 whichever ready scenario anticipates the most growth in each 406 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:51,120 jurisdiction as this would tend to produce the most 407 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,279 affordable housing outcomes there are two exceptions to this lake 408 00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:59,039 cowichan and electoral area i in both cases a lower growth scenario 409 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:04,880 scenario three is applied as the more extreme scenarios 410 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:04,880 were deemed implausible 411 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:13,520 this methodology uh produced the projection 412 00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:17,919 scene here we project that the region will grow in household count from about 413 00:29:15,679 --> 00:29:22,640 35 000 in 2019 to about 40 000 in 2025 414 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,480 which would be growth of about 14 percent in six years 415 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,760 this would be somewhat more rapid growth than observed in the past 416 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:35,360 the number of households in the region grew by 13 417 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:39,600 in the decade between 2006 and 2016. under this scenario the slowest growing 418 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:43,440 jurisdiction in terms of household count will be lake kochen at three percent and 419 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:48,080 the fastest growing will be electoral area f 420 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:55,840 at 54 and here's the population projection 421 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:55,840 which is very similar 422 00:29:56,159 --> 00:30:03,200 statistics canada defines housing suitability as follows 423 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:06,720 no less than one bedroom per household member except for couples 424 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,720 and except for children depending on their age and sex 425 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:14,880 it may not be evident but this definition is extremely austere 426 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:19,520 merely meeting this requirement throughout a community would produce 427 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:24,640 extremely cramped housing both environics and reni provide 428 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:28,240 estimates of population per household but we lack the information on age and 429 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,159 sex distribution within households therefore to generate an estimate of 430 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,520 housing need by bedroom count we simply we simplify the statistics 431 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:39,679 canada standard to the following no less than one 432 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:43,520 bedroom per household member but couples may share a room this is 433 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,120 both practical and produces more generous housing needs 434 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:50,640 estimates the stipulation that couples may share 435 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:53,840 bedrooms is very important because a huge number of households 436 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,279 contain couples in the cvrd in 2016 according to the 437 00:30:56,399 --> 00:31:00,960 census 89 of two-bedroom households consisted 438 00:30:59,679 --> 00:31:04,399 of a couple 73 percent of three-bedroom households 439 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:08,080 contained a couple eighty-four percent of four bedroom uh 440 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:13,120 four-person households contained a couple and so on 441 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:16,880 uh so defining housing need in this way which is only slightly more generous 442 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:21,679 than statistics canada produces the counter-intuitive outcome 443 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:25,200 shown here the majority of housing need shown in 444 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:29,279 green is for one-bedroom units because most 445 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:35,120 most households consist of one person or a couple 446 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:39,039 but the majority of household of housing in the region shown in teal 447 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:44,559 has three or more bedrooms in other words most households in the cvrd 448 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:48,480 have more bedrooms than they need in fact 449 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:53,600 existing supply in 2016 already exceeded housing need in 2025 450 00:31:50,799 --> 00:31:56,399 for units with two or more bedrooms however 451 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,360 it would be an error to interpret this as suggesting 452 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:03,360 that only one bedroom unit should be constructed from now on 453 00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:08,000 uh that's because this represents the minimum number of bedrooms 454 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:12,480 not the ideal number of bedrooms need is different than preference 455 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:17,519 different than demand different than market desire uh in other news 456 00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:20,000 in other words rather because most households in the cvrd have more than 457 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,080 one have more than enough housing housing 458 00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,159 need by bedroom count is not a very useful or informative 459 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:34,240 statistic i'm sorry my phone is ringing here 460 00:32:29,279 --> 00:32:34,240 maybe not sure how to mute 461 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:41,519 i guess i'll just carry on uh because most households in the cvrd have 462 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,919 more than enough house bedrooms housing need by bedroom count 463 00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:49,840 is not a very useful or informative statistic for planning 464 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,159 although it is still worth noting that the region could use more than 465 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,880 uh could use more one-bedroom units because this was always 466 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:03,120 also a finding of the community engagement research 467 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:03,120 as presented by mr horn 468 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:11,840 one other thing gpra has modified the household income projection provided by 469 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:16,559 environics to produce two income projections for 470 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:23,679 each jurisdiction in the cvrd a rapid recovery scenario which has 471 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:27,200 the household incomes in the region recovering rapidly from the covet 19 472 00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:31,440 pandemic this is based directly on environments 473 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:36,159 and a slow recovery scenario this projection assumes a slower a 474 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:40,880 slower economic recovery from the kovid 19 pandemic which reduces 475 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:44,720 household incomes overall the reality is likely to fall somewhere 476 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:48,559 between these two scenarios so on this graphic 477 00:33:45,679 --> 00:33:52,720 teal is the present distribution of income 478 00:33:49,519 --> 00:33:58,159 uh light green is the slow recovery scenario and dark green is the 479 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:01,440 rapid recovery scenario uh at present household incomes are about 480 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:05,840 75 000 per household uh and we have those 481 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:09,760 rising to 89 000 in the rapid recovery scenario or 482 00:34:08,879 --> 00:34:14,720 84 000 in the slow recovery scenario 483 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,919 but again these are nominal income figures if you remove inflation from the 484 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:24,320 question and you use constant 2016 485 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:27,839 in 2019 incomes are about 70 000 per household 486 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:33,119 and that will rise to about 75 000 in the rapid recovery scenario 487 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:37,599 or stay roughly where it is at 70 000 in the slow recovery scenario we use 488 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:43,280 this income projection to produce a projection of tenure so 489 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:48,159 renters or owners in the region and in each jurisdiction 490 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:52,560 and similar just as you'd expect in the rapid recovery scenario 491 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:57,359 we have the 10-year mix shifting somewhat towards owner households 492 00:34:54,720 --> 00:35:05,040 whereas in the slow recovery scenario it stays basically where it is now 493 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:10,000 uh i'm not seeing any text here uh but this slide is asking for 494 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:13,520 discussion and questions oh there it is uh discussion and questions thank you 495 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,560 very much we'll open the floor if we can uh get 496 00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:21,359 folks who aren't speaking to turn off their 497 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:23,839 microphones please uh mr horn yours has given us a lot of feedback it looks like 498 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,359 thank you um so if we can lower the presentation 499 00:35:26,079 --> 00:35:31,839 so that we can see the directors we can open the description 500 00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:42,720 thank you all right so i'll go uh i'll take my speakers list i have director 501 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,160 keep your hand up until you hear your name called director sebring 502 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:55,440 uh oh sorry duncan who else smith 503 00:35:56,839 --> 00:36:03,760 mcgonagall i can't see when uh hands go over faces 504 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:03,760 out director morrison 505 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:10,839 and marsh and then i'll come back when we've got some 506 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:16,560 some of those out of the way i've got nicholson 507 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:20,800 okay go ahead uh director sebring thank you mr chair 508 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:24,960 and thank you to mr parker mr horn uh a long awaited and excellent 509 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:28,480 presentation a ton of good information here i've already reviewed 510 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:32,000 the north couching piece as well and some interesting things there too 511 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:36,160 mr parker you said something that intrigued me and i'd like you to expand 512 00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:43,040 on it with respect to uh how stringently we 513 00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:46,079 live within our policy objectives as expressed in urban containment 514 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:51,280 boundaries and the impact that that 515 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:56,560 those decisions have on affordability did i hear you say 516 00:36:53,280 --> 00:37:01,119 that if we um build more and and create less 517 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:05,760 restrictive urban containment boundaries and and 518 00:37:03,839 --> 00:37:09,680 make more land available for development than it has a positive impact on 519 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:15,040 affordability that is generally true yes uh i would 520 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:20,480 say though as a planner which i am uh there are plenty of other very good 521 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:27,040 reasons from environmental uh to uh transportation based 522 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:30,960 to um uh you know uh creating vibrant urban centers and so on why that 523 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:34,079 might not be a good idea but extremely speaking but strictly 524 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:38,160 speaking if you increase the availability of 525 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:43,200 housing here's here's a here's a thought 526 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:47,359 experiment in a market context if you build 50 homes in a location 527 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:52,240 they'll tend to go to the 50 highest bidders whereas if you build 528 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:55,760 a hundred homes in the same location they will tend to go to the 100 highest 529 00:37:54,400 --> 00:38:00,160 bidders and that's just how markets work 530 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:05,359 therefore as you increase supply the average price tends to go down 531 00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:09,119 simply as a function of mathematics now it can't go down past a certain point 532 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:13,760 which is the cost the cost to build you can't sell a new 533 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,520 unit for more than for less than it costs to build it but 534 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,240 generally the more supply uh the lower the place 535 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:25,280 the lower the prices you know this is the dilemma we were 536 00:38:23,839 --> 00:38:28,400 talking about it last night in the committee of the whole meeting at 537 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:32,640 north couch and we're in the middle of rewriting our ocp 538 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:36,960 and one of the pieces there is the the growth management strategy 539 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:40,400 and i mean i i get both sides of the equation we want to promote compact 540 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,040 communities in the sense that you know not only is it good for the environment 541 00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:46,720 and all those other things it's also good for us municipally 542 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,800 because it costs a hell of a lot less to to service 543 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:53,599 those 50 homes if they're clustered than if we have to run 544 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,680 water and sewer lines either and all over the place because we're not 545 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,400 clustering so there's good reasons to to do the 546 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,000 compact development but you know equally i can take you to 547 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:08,480 places in north carolina we're fairly strict about our ucb 548 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:12,480 where properties that are relatively compatible 549 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:16,079 and and you know side by each by like there's major price differences because 550 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:18,480 one is inside the ucb it can be developed and the other one's sitting 551 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,520 out there and you can't do anything with it so 552 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,880 do you have any advice in terms of finding that balance i know it's a 553 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:30,880 political question but damn it it's a political question 554 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:35,200 um i i don't feel that when i'm speaking to a 555 00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:42,000 group of people who are um really the decision makers you know and 556 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:45,920 uh all i know is that um is that there does tend to be that 557 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:52,560 trade-off and that um there are perhaps uh 558 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:57,280 side strategies right strategies that allow you to 559 00:39:53,760 --> 00:40:00,560 have your cake and eat it for example making it easier to live in multi-family 560 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:06,319 homes will tend to increase the desirability 561 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:09,599 of multi-family homes now multi-family homes are 562 00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:13,440 this would tend to increase the price of your multi-family homes 563 00:40:11,599 --> 00:40:17,280 but it would tend because multi-family homes are 564 00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:22,000 by by that i mean townhomes apartments because those units are cheaper 565 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:26,800 on average than single-family homes if you have more of them 566 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:31,200 your average housing price will go down so planning strategies to make 567 00:40:29,359 --> 00:40:37,040 multi-family living more attractive can include things like 568 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:40,000 having a good public transportation system uh having complete neighborhoods 569 00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:44,319 where uh you can live uh in an apartment and 570 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,319 the appeal of that is you can walk to the grocery store 571 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:51,680 uh walk to uh walk to your kids can walk to school 572 00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:55,680 so that you can live that more urban format of living but i will say 573 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:58,800 it is absolutely an intractable planning problem and there's just simply a 574 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,960 trade-off at some point however there are policies that can be 575 00:41:01,119 --> 00:41:05,119 introduced and have to some extent been introduced 576 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:08,960 and i'm sure john could speak to these more than me for making sure 577 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:14,800 that those at the bottom end of the housing spectrum have what they need 578 00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:20,160 to avoid the direst consequences of unaffordability 579 00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:24,319 these this uh this effect that we're described that we're discussing 580 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:28,480 about supply constraints leading to more expensive housing 581 00:41:26,079 --> 00:41:32,000 is really on the market side of things you know it's not 582 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:35,119 that bottom 10 of the population bottom only in the sense of 583 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:39,599 bottom of the income distribution let's say uh it's more the people 584 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:44,800 who can afford to purchase homes in the first place 585 00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:48,319 as for the renter side uh dedicating zoning to um you know you 586 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,079 there the municipalities are now empowered by 587 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:55,520 the province to make a rental zoning and that's 588 00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:59,119 something that can help increase the supply of rental 589 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:03,119 which is a particularly important tenure of course for 590 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:06,560 lower income households um so that's a variety of ways of thinking about this 591 00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:10,880 but i don't deny that there's a trade-off and 592 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:16,079 it's not really my place to say which community what communities should do 593 00:42:13,119 --> 00:42:20,640 to strike that balance because the ideal balance 594 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:26,160 varies by geography varies by community sure thank you very much thank you 595 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,839 thank you and i am mindful that we have a long speakers list 596 00:42:27,839 --> 00:42:34,000 so if we can keep our questions and our responses as concise as possible 597 00:42:32,319 --> 00:42:37,760 and to our municipal partners i understand that this will be presented 598 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:42,000 to the municipal councils as well so maybe for us municipal directors we 599 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:45,359 can save most of our our specific questions around our 600 00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:49,200 municipalities for that uh next i have directors duncan and 601 00:42:47,359 --> 00:42:52,800 smith and mcgonagall uh thank you uh mr chair uh just a quick 602 00:42:51,839 --> 00:42:58,079 question on the household incomes uh what how is that 603 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:00,960 based i know i know it must be from stat scan is it based on 604 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:04,720 one person working on the house in the household two people 605 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:06,800 uh is it just by address did they come from stats council just some background 606 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:10,160 on how they they come up with that that 607 00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:15,680 household income level sure um so 608 00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:19,520 well there's different there's different data sources and there's different data 609 00:43:17,839 --> 00:43:23,119 components here so i'll just go through them briefly 610 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:29,920 uh the first part of the presentation covered census data so that was from 611 00:43:25,359 --> 00:43:35,839 2006 the 2006 2011 and 2016 censuses and they define households as um 612 00:43:33,359 --> 00:43:38,480 any two people well any one person really uh 613 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:42,400 people living together it's private households it's just about everybody 614 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:46,800 exceptions to private households would be people living in care homes 615 00:43:45,359 --> 00:43:53,200 other kinds of institutional arrangements that kind of thing 616 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:56,400 so it's their income their annual income you add together all the incomes in the 617 00:43:54,800 --> 00:44:03,200 household and that's it um presumably uh stats canada 618 00:43:59,839 --> 00:44:07,760 gets that information directly from uh from people uh i believe it's short form 619 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:13,680 sense or long-form census which means they uh they pull 25 of the population 620 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:17,200 and then they apply some basic data analysis 621 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:21,599 tools to generalize that to the to the other 75 622 00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:25,839 of the population then there was our 2019 and 2025 623 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:29,839 income projections and those are produced by a company called 624 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:35,920 environics analytics with a little bit of processing from yours truly 625 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:39,520 they have proprietary methodology but essentially 626 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:43,359 i believe they do uh they use census data 627 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:48,560 they use things like surveys uh they use economic modeling and so on uh 628 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:53,200 to make an estimate of income distribution and as as i showed there 629 00:44:51,119 --> 00:44:58,880 it's fairly compatible and tells a very similar story 630 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,880 uh to the census data 631 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,880 thank you that's my answer okay thank you director duncan 632 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:10,240 i have director smith and mcgonagall dan morrison go ahead director smith 633 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:13,599 thank you that was extremely fascinating presentation 634 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:18,240 it's always nice to have those presentations with the 635 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:22,560 commentary going with it because it gives us an opportunity to actually hear 636 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:27,680 a little more detail i noticed that 637 00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:31,200 there was an indication that area g is going to population is going to grow and 638 00:45:29,839 --> 00:45:35,599 yet the last presentation that we saw there was some 639 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:40,079 of our communities that were going in the other direction so i'll split it 640 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:44,160 down the middle and say we're going to grow a little 641 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,640 and that one of the things that i'm out in the communities a lot and i listen to 642 00:45:46,079 --> 00:45:50,720 what people are up to and a lot of people are 643 00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:54,079 buying a second home and those homes are for their personal 644 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:57,599 use so we have people that are from say the 645 00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:02,560 lower mainland or from elsewhere they they come to our 646 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:06,720 areas and they own a second home that home 647 00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:10,160 isn't available for rental and i don't know if you have any details on how many 648 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:14,400 of those are actually sitting there or we have situations 649 00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:22,079 where they own a little rv 650 00:46:17,839 --> 00:46:25,599 lot situation so those aren't available for rental they're not part of the 651 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,599 rental pool so there's some gaps in some of the 652 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:34,160 material that we we just don't have any stats on as to 653 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:39,520 what's going on there and i think that you know a lot of 654 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:43,520 people in their areas have illegal rentals going on so the rental situation 655 00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:47,040 is not necessarily people aren't going to fill in a form 656 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:49,680 yes i have an illegal rental on my property 657 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:55,359 and then we have the other situation where we have the airbnbs that are 658 00:46:52,400 --> 00:47:00,640 removing rental possibilities out of our pool 659 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:04,240 so we have a lot of areas that we don't have those stats and and as 660 00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:08,000 much as we do have those rentals actually in our 661 00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:12,960 areas they're just not part of these stats sometimes but i really appreciated 662 00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:17,359 the presentation and i'm going to definitely re-watch the video thank you 663 00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:21,040 very much for your time thank you thank you thank you thank you 664 00:47:19,359 --> 00:47:24,800 director smith and we'll go into director mcgonagall then morrison then 665 00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:28,559 marsh director mcgonagall thank you very much first of all 666 00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:34,640 uh mr horn and mr parker thank you very much for that very informative 667 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:38,960 report and presentation i think if nothing else it shows the diversity of 668 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:44,000 the couch valley regional district in not only affordability but in 669 00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:47,440 availability as was stated when you look to the south as opposed to 670 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:51,119 the east and the west there are so many 671 00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:55,119 discrepancies within those areas and needs within those areas i was 672 00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,480 pleased that a planner had mentioned a topic 673 00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:02,480 that i have brought up many times within the 674 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:07,119 municipalities forte of of rental zoning within our 675 00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:10,160 municipalities to accommodate the affordability within 676 00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:13,760 that and i would encourage everyone within 677 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:17,359 the municipal uh forte to investigate that to the 678 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:21,440 fullest capacity whether it's percentages within that 679 00:48:19,359 --> 00:48:24,559 zoning or or whatever consider that as an option for 680 00:48:23,359 --> 00:48:28,400 affordability when you look at some of those numbers 681 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:38,000 and the projections that are needed i think that's imperative you director 682 00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:44,880 mcgonagall any comment on that mr parker no i um i i suppose as a 683 00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:48,480 planner it's exciting to me to hear uh whenever municipalities are empowered 684 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:54,000 by the municipal uh government act to 685 00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:58,160 uh introduce new kinds of zoning especially when it 686 00:48:55,119 --> 00:49:04,079 has the power to really ensure that a a kind of housing that is in dire need 687 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:08,000 um might be more present and available um so i 688 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:11,520 echo the director's comments thank you director morrison then 689 00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:16,000 marshland nicholson go ahead director morrison 690 00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:20,319 uh thank you i'll try and be brief i i have to say i i kind of love the 691 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:23,839 optimism in your housing projections and population 692 00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:28,480 growth for electoral area f uh gosh if we could 693 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:34,480 reach them that'd be great um my questions are around um 694 00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:38,319 so you made some mention of manufactured homes and and 695 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:43,440 technically we really don't have any in my electoral area which 696 00:49:40,319 --> 00:49:46,960 it kind of leads me to a question around and this is 697 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:50,359 both around the rental and and owning is the 698 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:55,599 the uh push to broaden use of non-traditional housing types to 699 00:49:53,040 --> 00:50:00,319 uh to accommodate some of the pressures that we're facing and 700 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:04,000 and you know i've got a lot of pressure to look at the tiny home question i've 701 00:50:02,319 --> 00:50:07,359 got a lot of pressure to look at well we're starting to get more pressure 702 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,440 on on a desire for people to be able to 703 00:50:09,359 --> 00:50:16,720 have a pad beside their house and and rent it out as an rv space and and 704 00:50:14,319 --> 00:50:23,280 then it's already been mentioned the uh the uh issue around airbnb 705 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:27,760 taking you know rental housing out of uh out of that pool 706 00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:31,440 so it's around that i wouldn't call it necessarily lower end but that 707 00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:37,760 alternative housing do you do you have any predictions as to 708 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:40,400 how that's going to impact uh you know some of the 709 00:50:38,319 --> 00:50:43,760 more rural areas and i just want to make this one point 710 00:50:41,599 --> 00:50:47,599 uh three or four years ago all of our planners were saying that there wasn't 711 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,760 really a need for additional residential housing lots to be created 712 00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:56,720 in my electoral area and now you can't find one for sale but 713 00:50:54,720 --> 00:51:01,520 your projections take into account the fact that we've actually gone ahead 714 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:05,119 and created more potential building lots in our area so that 715 00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:08,240 we now have that room for the growth but my specific point is around those 716 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:12,640 alternative housing types rvs is a type of housing 717 00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:16,880 which you know a lot of areas are trying to discourage 718 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:20,160 any thoughts in that area well um first of all i'd like to say that don't thank 719 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:24,960 me for the projection uh we were instructed by 720 00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:28,960 the cvrd staff to make use of reni's projections which were produced in early 721 00:51:27,599 --> 00:51:32,640 2019 uh we did make use of those projections 722 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:35,200 and let me tell you regarding electoral area f 723 00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,880 i in particular is this what i'm thinking of i'm thinking of a different 724 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:44,079 electoral area anyway um renny seems to present the case 725 00:51:42,319 --> 00:51:48,160 that assuming that the urban containment boundary is not 726 00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:51,680 respected i'm not commenting on the wisdom of that 727 00:51:49,599 --> 00:51:56,640 but renny seems to take the perspective that assuming that's the case 728 00:51:54,160 --> 00:52:00,079 this kind of really quite rapid growth in electoral area f 729 00:51:58,079 --> 00:52:05,359 and other electoral areas to a lesser extent is possible 730 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:08,480 um he did a land analysis he looked at the 731 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:12,640 land that was available uh and he simply made that projection 732 00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:15,839 um all the indicators of the market that i've ran into during this process have 733 00:52:14,559 --> 00:52:19,200 suggested that uh german the demand is tremendous it's 734 00:52:18,319 --> 00:52:24,079 growing uh and it will only continue to grow uh 735 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:28,559 for the next few years at least um now touching on the comment uh 736 00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:35,839 regarding manufactured homes um uh coach coach homes 737 00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:39,920 um basement suites um i will say any increase in the diversity of housing 738 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,359 will tend to have positive effects for affordability take 739 00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:48,079 from that way you will but as you increase the number of the 740 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:51,599 variety of options available more households that may not have been 741 00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:54,480 served by the previous more constrained market 742 00:52:52,559 --> 00:52:58,319 will find that they can afford a place to live now 743 00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:03,680 manufactured homes i recognize aren't everyone's favorite uh they're not 744 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:08,400 exactly popular um from from neighbors and also manufactured homes uh tend to 745 00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:12,319 not be what in economics terms we call the highest and best use of land 746 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:15,599 and by that i mean if you could build anything 747 00:53:13,599 --> 00:53:19,680 manufactured homes would probably not be the most lucrative thing 748 00:53:17,359 --> 00:53:24,000 to create on a lot but that doesn't mean they're the worst for affordability 749 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,640 uh so i think it's certainly worth thinking about 750 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:33,520 so just a little just a follow-up quick clarification on on the concept of tiny 751 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:36,720 homes you say you're a planner and we're getting a lot of buzz on on 752 00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:40,000 tiny homes and and they obviously have to fit into a 753 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:44,880 zone of some sort but uh your your 754 00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:49,200 anticipation of where that's going to fit in not just my area 755 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:53,440 but you know there's a demand for it within urban areas as well yeah i'm 756 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,960 talking about those tiny ones on trailers that can be picked 757 00:53:56,079 --> 00:54:02,480 up and moved if need be there's a market 758 00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:05,520 um the depth of that market isn't something that i've investigated 759 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:10,640 specifically um but i would say that just like 760 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:14,400 there's this word for these little homes that you put on the side of a house 761 00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:16,720 maybe in the like facing onto the back alley i can't remember the name off the 762 00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,960 top of my head um 763 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:27,359 exactly laneway that's it so just like laneway homes 764 00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:33,280 what these do is they essentially are a sneaky way to increase density 765 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:36,720 so they create two units out of one uh and they provide a source of income 766 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:41,520 for the owner household so what that means is um it's a win-win 767 00:54:39,839 --> 00:54:45,440 from an affordability perspective and i imagine that tiny homes would have 768 00:54:43,839 --> 00:54:49,119 the same dynamic in that they would create something from 769 00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:52,640 nothing they would allow you to put a home where 770 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:56,240 previously a home didn't exist but it's not really something for 771 00:54:54,319 --> 00:54:59,680 nothing because there are knock-on effects when you increase 772 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:04,400 density increase traffic increase municipal costs of a variety of kinds 773 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:08,640 increased need for amenities in the neighborhood and so on and 774 00:55:06,240 --> 00:55:11,599 managing that through a variety of mechanisms 775 00:55:09,839 --> 00:55:14,559 is really the art of municipal governance right she has that trade-off 776 00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:21,280 between growth which is good for affordability 777 00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:24,640 but bad for municipal costs and i don't know what the right approach 778 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:28,079 is but i will say that tiny homes and other things of a similar 779 00:55:26,960 --> 00:55:31,359 nature will be good for affordability 780 00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,799 thank you very much i have director marsh then nicholson then uh the 781 00:55:36,799 --> 00:55:42,079 full list i have myself director martin and back to director smith 782 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:46,960 so that's my full list right now but next i have director marsh 783 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:52,240 nicholson and thank you very much i i hope i'm going to be able to word this 784 00:55:49,839 --> 00:55:59,599 in a way that you understand what i'm what i'm getting at um i'm looking um 785 00:55:55,760 --> 00:56:04,640 at your chart income distribution and i you know i'm not 786 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:10,000 a planner and i'm not an expert in housing but 787 00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:14,720 i see that in the couch and valley the inca the there's a large number of 788 00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:17,839 people i'm not saying a lot the largest number 789 00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,240 but um if you if you i don't know how to say 790 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:29,040 this that our be whose income is between 791 00:56:26,060 --> 00:56:34,000 [Music] thousand uh a hundred and nineteen 792 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:39,280 thousand dollars and that's that i just got that from 793 00:56:36,079 --> 00:56:43,760 sticking my pencil across your graph and so if the average price of the 794 00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:51,280 single family home which it seems like most um 795 00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:56,640 districts are more inclined to build is five hundred thousand dollars 796 00:56:54,480 --> 00:57:02,079 how do you how do you relate that to be affordable even to someone 797 00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:05,599 who whose household income is a hundred and nineteen thousand dollars 798 00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:13,119 well i actually have some statistics here so i'm gonna pull those up 799 00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:17,920 great you can't see them you can't see them but i can 800 00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:20,960 so can you send them to us at some point uh you have them uh i have submitted 801 00:57:20,079 --> 00:57:27,680 them to uh the to folder uh modis 802 00:57:24,559 --> 00:57:31,359 and corley breen of the cvid staff have access to this and i can 803 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:36,160 direct i can direct you to that it's 804 00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:36,160 essentially what i'm looking at here is 805 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:42,799 is summaries that i've made of assessment data 806 00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:46,319 so what we see here is that the average assessed value of a single family home 807 00:57:44,799 --> 00:57:49,839 in the whole cbrd is like you said just north of half a 808 00:57:49,359 --> 00:57:57,599 million so about about 546 thousand 809 00:57:54,319 --> 00:58:02,640 and the that varies by jurisdiction some places higher some places lower 810 00:57:59,839 --> 00:58:04,799 um so i don't know off the top of my head 811 00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:09,200 the income that would make that affordable uh 812 00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:12,240 but there is definitely an income grew below 813 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:16,559 that level it's absolutely true and it will always be true 814 00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:20,400 because um the cost of building a single family home 815 00:58:17,839 --> 00:58:24,799 uh is in the hundreds of thousands the cost to build one even for a developer 816 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:29,599 just to build it um and so it is impossible to 817 00:58:25,599 --> 00:58:32,880 generate new housing below that price now of course there's always the 818 00:58:30,720 --> 00:58:36,000 existing supply of housing and there's no rule that that can't 819 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:39,680 be lower and indeed in some jurisdictions the average price of 820 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:44,960 housing is well below uh the cost to build a new house 821 00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:48,799 and yet you would never expect the market to satisfy all housing needs it 822 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:53,839 simply can't be done because there are cost to construction 823 00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:57,920 uh rental housing helps in that it allows people to get housed without a 824 00:58:56,559 --> 00:59:03,280 down payment um multi-family housing helps in that 825 00:59:01,119 --> 00:59:07,040 it's cheaper to build a smaller unit and it's easier to make money if you build 826 00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:11,040 more of them and yet at the end of the day it was 827 00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:16,400 impossible for the market to satisfy all the housing needs of any community 828 00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:20,480 and that's why policies and and strategies are needed to provide 829 00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:23,760 non-market housing and subsidies of various kinds 830 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:28,960 that meet people's personal needs whether those are low-income 831 00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:32,240 seniors uh people with disabilities and so on 832 00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:35,599 um i'm not sure exactly how to better answer your question than that no 833 00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:38,640 no i appreciate that may i have a follow-up mr chair 834 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:48,319 yes okay so it sounded like you were saying 835 00:59:45,119 --> 00:59:51,839 that your your research showed that if we made our urban containment 836 00:59:50,319 --> 01:00:00,079 boundaries larger it would make housing more 837 00:59:55,599 --> 01:00:03,599 affordable to more people and i wondered if in that is that 838 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:08,000 correct what the what you said that will tend to be the 839 01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:15,599 case okay so did you factor in the cost 840 01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:20,079 of uh traveling having to own a vehicle the cost of not just putting in the 841 01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:25,280 pipes initially but the asset management of all the 842 01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:29,200 things that would be required in order to do that 843 01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:34,319 is that factored in uh factored in in what sense 844 01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:41,280 well okay so it's cheaper we a house is cheaper to buy 845 01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:44,559 but when you think of the taxpayers that are helping 846 01:00:42,559 --> 01:00:47,440 to allow that house to be cheaper for that purchaser 847 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:57,119 is it indeed a wise mew for us a muni or an area direct air 848 01:00:53,839 --> 01:01:02,160 electoral area to build out because in the long term 849 01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:05,920 it's everybody else that's going to be paying for the replacement 850 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:11,520 and the maintenance of the infrastructure and the assets 851 01:01:08,079 --> 01:01:14,960 so to me i i i don't want to challenge you because 852 01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:20,319 you're a lot more intelligent than i am about this but 853 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:26,400 i'm feeling a bit like um hearing that is kind of a false economy 854 01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:29,920 i agree with you uh i actually think that 855 01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:32,559 um the ideal situation is for development to be forced to pay for 856 01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:39,440 itself so i agree measures uh measures such as 857 01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:42,480 dcc's cacs land uh you know phase development agreements 858 01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:45,680 measures put in place to ensure that new 859 01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:49,599 development pays for as many of the costs it 860 01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:53,119 generates as possible but i'd also go i'd also i also want to 861 01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:57,039 look back to what you said and say you you disagree well i don't actually think 862 01:01:54,720 --> 01:02:01,039 it's necessarily the right approach to expand the urban containment boundary 863 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:04,640 that's what i wanted because it's just it's just that it's a 864 01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:10,400 political choice there are trade-offs to be made between 865 01:02:08,319 --> 01:02:14,480 using the market mechanisms to increase affordability 866 01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:20,079 on the one hand and on the other hand pursuing all these perfectly valid 867 01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:24,160 planning objectives such as reduced pollution 868 01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:27,520 complete communities um and so on uh i i don't have a particular stake uh 869 01:02:27,119 --> 01:02:34,559 on in which which choice the municipalities 870 01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:37,520 and uh the dicks the district go with that right 871 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:40,960 um right but since it's an affordability study since it's a housing needs 872 01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:45,839 assessment study uh that mechanic was our focus 873 01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:48,000 okay thank you i'm going to lead the floor knowing that you're going to come 874 01:02:47,039 --> 01:02:52,079 to north carolina but i'm glad to hear that you don't 875 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:55,760 think that making urban containment boundaries for 876 01:02:54,240 --> 01:03:01,760 many reasons larger is is necessarily wise 877 01:02:58,799 --> 01:03:05,520 so thanks very much thank you uh director nicholson then kuhn and myself 878 01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:09,520 then martin and then smith and i'm noticing we are an hour into our 879 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,880 meeting so once that's done um we do have this item coming up under 880 01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:16,079 our reports as well so uh we will have more opportunity for 881 01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:20,079 discussion then go ahead director nicholson then 882 01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:23,119 them myself thank you chair this is so interesting 883 01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:29,440 um and a great presentation so i am 884 01:03:26,720 --> 01:03:32,960 i am wondering about we have this needs assessment study done and we're going to 885 01:03:31,119 --> 01:03:37,359 take this information and use it in our planning 886 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:41,039 but i also know in my area which is area e 887 01:03:37,839 --> 01:03:45,680 the sort of the electoral area that cups duncan the urban 888 01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:53,680 the urban area i know that there are a lot of 889 01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:56,720 not legal uh people living out in the bush behind the 890 01:03:56,160 --> 01:04:00,720 trees that we don't see and i'm wondering how 891 01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:07,440 much confidence can we put on this study 892 01:04:04,559 --> 01:04:07,440 for our planning 893 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:17,359 well in the sense that the reliability of the uh projections 894 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:27,039 yeah yep well it really depends on whether you 895 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:31,680 uh the extent to which you trust uh the the reni the bob brenny projection 896 01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:39,200 methodology that we were instructed to uh to to use um 897 01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:44,400 basically what what renny did was he uh he basically projected regional growth 898 01:04:42,960 --> 01:04:49,200 as an extension of historical trends and then how that 899 01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:54,559 growth is distributed varies by varies by scenario 900 01:04:53,119 --> 01:05:00,079 and we cherry pick from among those scenarios to show the 901 01:04:56,799 --> 01:05:05,359 maximum scenario in each jurisdiction so essentially what we're saying is as 902 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:12,240 aggressive as rooney is willing to go that is what we will model um 903 01:05:09,599 --> 01:05:17,200 in terms of reliability i believe it's mostly based on census data 904 01:05:14,960 --> 01:05:21,599 so in terms of the actual counts the actual numbers 905 01:05:18,319 --> 01:05:26,079 so only as reliable as the census it's not a hundred percent um and i 906 01:05:24,319 --> 01:05:30,400 assume they miss some people um but i also assume statistics canada 907 01:05:28,160 --> 01:05:34,160 has a variety of mechanisms for making sure that everyone is captured 908 01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:41,280 so i'm not exactly sure how to go further with my answer 909 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:49,200 okay if i could add to that maybe the unhoused population usually doesn't 910 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:53,039 get captured by the formal census methodologies and 911 01:05:51,359 --> 01:05:56,640 you know that we do our own homeless counts typically in communities 912 01:05:54,960 --> 01:05:59,680 to assess but more on an ongoing basis we would 913 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:03,520 look at shelter take up and connections with 914 01:06:01,839 --> 01:06:07,599 outreach workers and be hot mental health and substance use so 915 01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:11,440 the case loads of the social agencies that respond to the 916 01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:14,240 needs of those without any place to live at all 917 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:18,319 is probably the most accurate way on a day-to-day basis to track 918 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:21,039 what is the population that's unhoused in your community and 919 01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:24,240 and sort of as we move forward it's likely that those are the kind of data 920 01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:27,520 sets we'll be drawing up and we won't rely much on 921 01:06:25,680 --> 01:06:31,760 bigger formal data sets like census can because they don't capture that 922 01:06:29,039 --> 01:06:33,760 population very much at all so we'd rely on 923 01:06:32,079 --> 01:06:37,200 connections with our local social agencies to determine 924 01:06:35,359 --> 01:06:40,880 ongoing you know how many people are there that really are unhoused 925 01:06:38,799 --> 01:06:44,240 absolutely on house and need some form of redress in that regard so 926 01:06:43,119 --> 01:06:48,880 that's probably how we continue on that way yeah can i just 927 01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:52,640 follow up i i just i guess i think that we ought 928 01:06:51,599 --> 01:06:56,160 to be focusing as well on all the people that are 929 01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:04,319 living in in rvs and little tiny 930 01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:09,920 cabins in the woods that have you know not proper whatever 931 01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:15,599 i know that there's a lot of them and now we're getting fancier 932 01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:19,119 tiny homes on mobile tiny homes but there are a lot of people that live that 933 01:07:18,319 --> 01:07:22,559 way and i think that we shouldn't overlook 934 01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:25,839 that in our planning that's all 935 01:07:27,520 --> 01:07:33,280 so i i was that a rhetorical question it's just a statement 936 01:07:34,559 --> 01:07:38,319 i don't make rhetorical statements 937 01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:45,200 a position not not a query i thought but it was a position 938 01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,880 i i just don't want to i just think when we're using this kind of study for 939 01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:53,440 planning we can't forget the the the data that we don't have that's 940 01:07:53,839 --> 01:07:59,200 yeah well i think that's important and john i think you've addressed that about 941 01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:02,720 talking about the qualitative piece and bringing in those other 942 01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:07,119 metrics and analysis that couch and housing has done as well right 943 01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:11,200 but again we do the heavy lifting at local government when we 944 01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:14,079 amend our policies uh to support the types of housing that are needed right 945 01:08:13,039 --> 01:08:19,600 so um any other comments before i move on 946 01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:22,560 my speakers list sorry i'm not sure the background noises 947 01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:27,199 but again if i could remind the directors if you're not speaking to 948 01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:27,199 please meet your microphones 949 01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:32,719 uh director i believe you're next 950 01:08:32,799 --> 01:08:38,319 you're fine okay uh just a quick comment from myself 951 01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:41,359 in the speakers list here i just want to say that i love 952 01:08:39,679 --> 01:08:45,279 the data and the statistical interpretations i know that there's a 953 01:08:43,440 --> 01:08:49,440 lot of specific questions that i may have but i'll save those for my council 954 01:08:47,520 --> 01:08:52,480 just those those little parts that seem to stick out as like almost like a blip 955 01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:56,560 in the radar like the statistics sort of seem to carry a a 956 01:08:54,719 --> 01:08:59,359 methodology throughout but then there's something that sticks out maybe as a bit 957 01:08:58,159 --> 01:09:02,719 of a sore thumb so i really just want to say i 958 01:09:00,719 --> 01:09:06,319 appreciate the the data and the interpretations because it does 959 01:09:04,480 --> 01:09:09,520 i think confirm and line up with some of the anecdotal 960 01:09:07,359 --> 01:09:12,960 uh observations and stories we hear i know john in your work you probably see 961 01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:18,159 quite a bit of that so uh i'm thank you for all of the work and 962 01:09:16,319 --> 01:09:22,319 i know that many of us are embarking on ocp and zoning 963 01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:24,799 bylaw discussions and and this kind of information is so informative and 964 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:29,440 helpful in us being able to use facts to help 965 01:09:26,799 --> 01:09:33,679 support some of the more controversial housing or ocp type decisions we may 966 01:09:31,839 --> 01:09:36,560 make in terms of increasing density and affordability and 967 01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:42,480 some of those things that in typically suburban rural communities can sometimes 968 01:09:39,440 --> 01:09:47,199 create a public uh fervor around around those desires to to support those 969 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:50,799 types of housing so moving on to director martman and then 970 01:09:48,880 --> 01:09:55,280 i'll go back to director smith if i've missed anyone just feel free to 971 01:09:52,640 --> 01:10:00,320 put your hands up hi um i'm director martman from area h 972 01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:04,400 and thank you very much for the report i echo many others and that i really 973 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:09,199 appreciate having something like this to share with my um constituents i i 974 01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:12,960 always look at these from a data research perspective and i'd 975 01:10:12,159 --> 01:10:16,000 like to know i have a couple of comments but where do 976 01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:22,239 you think are the most vulnerable assumptions that 977 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:22,239 you're making in presenting this data 978 01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:30,080 very good question um well we were instructed to use reni's 979 01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:36,320 projections and they rely upon two basic streams of data 980 01:10:34,239 --> 01:10:39,760 one is the overall amount of growth in the region 981 01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:43,040 and that's based on historical trends and the other 982 01:10:40,800 --> 01:10:47,199 is the scenarios themselves which divvy that growth up between re 983 01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:50,159 between uh jurisdictions in the region i believe his methodology was principally 984 01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:53,760 based on uh basically the amount of undeveloped 985 01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:59,360 land um and it may be 986 01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:03,199 that there's there are many places in the uh 987 01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:07,600 region where that approach was uh simply incorrect 988 01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:12,800 uh because uh well it's you know for example if you look at electoral area i 989 01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:16,880 or electoral area f or lake cowa-chin there are places where rene projected at 990 01:11:15,199 --> 01:11:19,920 least in some scenarios or even most scenarios 991 01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:23,199 a huge amount of growth completely out of line with 992 01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:29,520 um historical trends which are constrained by policy forces 993 01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:33,600 and it seems in my in my opinion it seems to me like a lot of those might 994 01:11:31,280 --> 01:11:37,520 be implausible um so that's certainly a methodological 995 01:11:35,440 --> 01:11:41,199 weakness in terms of another methodological 996 01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:45,600 weakness is that because we were doing this project in 997 01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:50,719 2019 and 2020 but the most recent official data from 998 01:11:47,760 --> 01:11:54,239 the government was from 2016. when we make the jump from 2016 to 2019 999 01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:58,159 we need to start switching our data sources whenever you 1000 01:11:56,560 --> 01:12:00,880 switch your data sources you introduce 1001 01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:07,840 sources of error and sources of conflict in the data 1002 01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:12,000 where for example you show trends that might not actually exist they just 1003 01:12:09,679 --> 01:12:17,360 different different data projections and different sources of data 1004 01:12:13,679 --> 01:12:23,679 count things in slightly different ways one particular area is that we have 1005 01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:26,640 a estimate of household uh household size 1006 01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:31,600 so number of people per household in 2019 which comes from environics 1007 01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:35,920 and in 2025 which comes from reni and these often show 1008 01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:38,560 very different uh very different average uh 1009 01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:41,760 number of people per unit and there's two interpretations there 1010 01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:46,000 one interpretation is that that's real and we're projecting a change of 1011 01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:49,440 household size the other interpretation is well they use different methodologies 1012 01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:53,360 and they come up with different answers and consequently that change in 1013 01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:58,800 household size may be somewhat spurious uh and so 1014 01:12:56,159 --> 01:13:03,199 that's another methodological weakness um here's another methodological 1015 01:13:01,520 --> 01:13:08,560 weakness we don't have data 1016 01:13:06,239 --> 01:13:12,719 connecting the incomes of particular households 1017 01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:17,520 with the with the um price of a particular home so uh 1018 01:13:15,840 --> 01:13:23,920 we don't we know the distribution of income and we know the distribution of 1019 01:13:20,560 --> 01:13:27,679 uh housing prices but we don't know how they match up 1020 01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:29,920 so our methodology required us to make a best guess 1021 01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:34,080 and what we basically did was we basically applied uh the top one percent 1022 01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,360 of the population will live in the top one percent of 1023 01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:41,520 expensive housing the top ten percent in the top ten percent and so on 1024 01:13:39,040 --> 01:13:45,360 now that should approximate something accurate 1025 01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:48,080 but there's no way to be entirely sure uh 1026 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:51,440 until the next census which would be in 2021 1027 01:13:49,760 --> 01:13:56,400 um and so that's just a source of methodological weakness 1028 01:13:53,440 --> 01:14:00,560 um but since the most recent data we had was 2016 there wasn't really much we 1029 01:13:58,159 --> 01:14:04,159 could do about it um i could probably keep going about 1030 01:14:01,679 --> 01:14:10,239 methodologically i'll stop it i'll stop it in the interest of time 1031 01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:13,280 just a follow-up to that then because to me that whenever i look at a report i 1032 01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:17,040 love to see that in part of the report somewhere because 1033 01:14:15,760 --> 01:14:20,560 to me that has intrinsic value to know where potential 1034 01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:23,679 weaknesses are i don't necessarily see it in here or 1035 01:14:22,159 --> 01:14:27,199 was it meant to be included that's just a follow-up to that but a 1036 01:14:25,360 --> 01:14:30,719 question and then then sort of another assumption that i 1037 01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:33,520 saw on this was around the 30 and 50 rules 1038 01:14:31,679 --> 01:14:38,960 and i'm wondering how applicable they are if you don't take into account 1039 01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:42,080 household debt um and so do you look at household debt at any 1040 01:14:40,800 --> 01:14:46,239 point in this yes uh we we do look at household debt 1041 01:14:45,199 --> 01:14:52,080 in fact we ran that same analysis that you saw 1042 01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:56,560 on um households owner that is owner households 1043 01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:59,199 with um uh with mortgages and without mortgages 1044 01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:05,679 and what we which is the biggest source of household debt um and what we found 1045 01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:08,480 is that um that graphic we showed you was for people with mortgages households 1046 01:15:07,440 --> 01:15:11,679 with mortgages for households without mortgages uh it 1047 01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:15,360 is much more favorable of housing is much more 1048 01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:19,440 affordable in the sense that their monthly 1049 01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:23,520 household costs uh without a mortgage expense are easily in all cases for 1050 01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:29,120 owner households easily below that 30 mark um 1051 01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:31,120 and if you somebody actually uh one of the comments we got on one of these 1052 01:15:30,239 --> 01:15:35,199 reports was somebody had crunched the numbers 1053 01:15:33,199 --> 01:15:40,159 and said this doesn't seem to look right if let's say the cutoff is 55 000 1054 01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:43,679 anyone below this would be expected to be in household uh in household need 1055 01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:47,120 housing need and they said well but that's not uh and 1056 01:15:46,080 --> 01:15:51,120 you've said that's 20 of the population but it's actually much 1057 01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:55,199 more well the reason for that disconnect is because we've taken the households 1058 01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:59,840 without mortgages out of that factor we've said this 1059 01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:04,640 really only applies to households owner households with mortgages so yeah 1060 01:16:02,719 --> 01:16:07,679 we have we have incorporated debt to some extent into the analysis and 1061 01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:11,760 last lastly if you can't if i may um do you 1062 01:16:10,239 --> 01:16:15,600 take an accountant the generational wealth transfer 1063 01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:23,520 um not directly okay however one of the things we do look at 1064 01:16:22,239 --> 01:16:29,040 is how how the value of how 1065 01:16:26,719 --> 01:16:34,000 value of homes has escalated over the years 1066 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:39,520 so that um people who live in existing homes they're actually paying a mortgage 1067 01:16:36,719 --> 01:16:43,600 based on let's say 10 years ago whereas there's a section of the report 1068 01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:46,320 that looks at the affordability of new housing 1069 01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:51,040 so if you were to buy a home that was just billed and that of course 1070 01:16:48,159 --> 01:16:54,000 looks at housing costs today the cost to construct 1071 01:16:51,679 --> 01:16:57,120 a home today and so those produce very different results 1072 01:16:55,120 --> 01:16:59,760 in part because there's these factors and of course that would 1073 01:16:58,159 --> 01:17:03,920 impact intergenerate there will be intergenerational aspects there 1074 01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:08,000 but that's very indirect okay thank you thanks thanks 1075 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:11,199 i'm chair thank you uh i think i have director smith to close 1076 01:17:09,520 --> 01:17:14,800 and then we'll probably just take a a quick break uh before we resume our 1077 01:17:13,199 --> 01:17:18,800 agenda we're almost uh just about an hour and a half and go 1078 01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:23,120 ahead uh director smith uh thank you uh once again i i love the 1079 01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:26,159 report and i'm gonna definitely have to look look look a lot 1080 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:30,000 more and one of the things that i think is 1081 01:17:28,719 --> 01:17:35,440 electoral areas are very different than municipalities and 1082 01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:38,400 right now we're currently working at doing a harmonized official community 1083 01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:42,000 plan some of the things that we have to take 1084 01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:47,760 into consideration are the water sustainability uh 1085 01:17:45,199 --> 01:17:50,800 as we have areas that definitely have water issues 1086 01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:55,199 and we also have to look at the waste water uh 1087 01:17:52,159 --> 01:17:59,760 without specific um infrastructure in place then we're we're looking at a 1088 01:17:58,239 --> 01:18:06,080 really different area and most of our electoral areas are a 1089 01:18:02,800 --> 01:18:13,600 mixture of all those combinations of water sustainability wastewater systems 1090 01:18:09,440 --> 01:18:18,880 septic systems septic systems on us on soil types that don't work so 1091 01:18:17,280 --> 01:18:23,120 all of those things have to go into our ocp one of the other things is electoral 1092 01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:27,280 areas are not able to collect the dcc that 1093 01:18:26,120 --> 01:18:31,920 municipalities are able to do use and that sort of puts 1094 01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:35,920 us in a different category for some of the things that 1095 01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:42,640 would be attainable if we were a municipality also 1096 01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:47,760 none of the figures really reflect that a lot of those people 1097 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:54,480 in the income bracket for 2020 went from one family member uh with 1098 01:18:51,600 --> 01:19:00,159 two people with a paycheck to one person with a paycheck so it's really hard to 1099 01:18:56,719 --> 01:19:03,520 look at these numbers and see what the the 2020 actually is we won't know that 1100 01:19:03,199 --> 01:19:09,840 for maybe a year of the household income has 1101 01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:13,360 drastically changed for many people in 2020 1102 01:19:11,280 --> 01:19:17,520 and i think that one of the other things that we're looking at is 1103 01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:21,840 the step code coming in that's going to increase the cost of 1104 01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:26,159 housing so we have so many things on our plate that we have to consider 1105 01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:29,600 along with your report that's definitely a benefit for us to have this report at 1106 01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:34,560 this time thank you thank you very much 1107 01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:37,120 i believe we're at the end of our speakers list i just want to say thank 1108 01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:40,719 you so much for all of your work and uh 1109 01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:45,199 great information get the virtual clap sorry if you can't 1110 01:19:43,199 --> 01:19:50,080 hear the roar of the applause but you can see it on your screen 1111 01:19:46,719 --> 01:19:53,920 uh and uh mr horn and mr parker thank you for all your work and support 1112 01:19:51,920 --> 01:19:57,600 um as most of the directors have indicated i think we're almost all 1113 01:19:55,760 --> 01:20:00,640 redoing our ocps so this is really important information 1114 01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:07,280 to uh to to utilize as we go on those processes 1115 01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:10,800 so um i will say thank you and uh hopefully we'll see you again 1116 01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:15,600 and ms lego is there anything we need to cover before we take a brief break 1117 01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:19,040 okay thank you very much we'll adjourn for 10 minutes be back 1118 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:33,840 at 3 p.m thank you both very much have a great thanks for having us 1119 01:20:21,280 --> 01:20:33,840 thank you both 1120 01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:48,400 the camera's live great thank you so we are back and 1121 01:20:46,239 --> 01:20:53,040 i would say that we will uh our delegates have remained behind 1122 01:20:51,199 --> 01:20:56,320 um and i don't want to make them wait till we get through all our committee 1123 01:20:54,400 --> 01:21:01,600 reports and correspondence to uh let them move on with their day 1124 01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:05,040 so we'll move sr1 up uh to the next item on the agenda quickly 1125 01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:10,080 um ms lego should i get a motion for that or is that within my prerogative 1126 01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:15,040 it's it's within the chair's purview thank you so we'll move on to sr1 just 1127 01:21:12,560 --> 01:21:18,960 under number 11 staff reports and ms lego if you want to read out the 1128 01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:23,600 recommendation while everyone scrolls down the agenda to that location 1129 01:21:21,360 --> 01:21:26,719 uh we'll go ahead sure mr chair this is staff report from community planning and 1130 01:21:25,199 --> 01:21:30,719 the proposed recommendation is that the couch and valley regional district 1131 01:21:28,159 --> 01:21:33,440 housing needs assessment reports 2021 be received 1132 01:21:31,920 --> 01:21:39,120 thank you moved by director sebring seconded by director yanni dinardo 1133 01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:42,960 any discussion on the motion seeing none all those sorry we do have discussion on 1134 01:21:41,520 --> 01:21:48,080 a motion to receive director sebring then marsh just just a 1135 01:21:45,760 --> 01:21:51,760 question what happens to this report now i mean we put a lot of energy and time 1136 01:21:50,000 --> 01:21:56,639 into this and a lot of money uh the province had insisted that all 1137 01:21:54,560 --> 01:22:00,560 the regions and municipalities do this now what just a very practical thing 1138 01:21:58,880 --> 01:22:04,800 going forward i know it'll be incorporated into our 1139 01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:07,360 municipal and regional ocp work but i will 1140 01:22:05,120 --> 01:22:12,480 turn it over to staff for more clarity on next steps 1141 01:22:10,400 --> 01:22:17,280 and just a reminder again to directors please mute your microphone if you're 1142 01:22:14,320 --> 01:22:20,560 not speaking thank you um good after good afternoon everyone 1143 01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:24,000 and through the chair uh we have a requirement first of all 1144 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:30,239 with the province after uh easc and each municipal 1145 01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:35,199 uh council receives the report to then file 1146 01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:39,199 um all of the reports with the province the municipal planning managers and 1147 01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:44,159 directors have it uh each respective um 1148 01:22:42,480 --> 01:22:48,080 local government will then consider it in conjunction with updating their ocp 1149 01:22:48,639 --> 01:22:54,159 thank you director sebring follow-up i just want to make sure it doesn't sit on 1150 01:22:52,480 --> 01:22:58,320 the shelf and collect best pencil thank you thank you i know we're ant 1151 01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:04,719 eagerly anticipating this data to inform our osvp process so 1152 01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:08,400 um i will go through to director murph thank you very much mr chair i i just 1153 01:23:06,880 --> 01:23:14,080 wanted to um acknowledge that um 1154 01:23:11,440 --> 01:23:18,719 mr parker said that there were some spurious 1155 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:24,239 um data in here and he did mention uh rini and company and i can tell you 1156 01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:28,960 that north korean got a report on housing and employment and 1157 01:23:26,000 --> 01:23:34,320 affordability predictions last night so i'm sure that it was in a public 1158 01:23:31,360 --> 01:23:40,080 meeting i'm sure that um if uh north cbrd staff don't have it yet 1159 01:23:38,239 --> 01:23:44,400 they could certainly get it sent by north north couch and it was 1160 01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:48,960 as a part of a modus report and there was a link in this 1161 01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:52,880 report and because i the feeling i got from this was like 1162 01:23:50,080 --> 01:23:57,040 this isn't like the bible this is like they were given certain parameter and 1163 01:23:54,480 --> 01:24:01,120 that's the answer to that parameter so thank you thank you any further 1164 01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,239 discussion seeing none i'll call the question all 1165 01:24:02,560 --> 01:24:08,400 those in favor and opposed not opposed motion carries 1166 01:24:07,280 --> 01:24:11,280 thank you again i know our delegates are probably in the 1167 01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:14,400 background because i don't see them on camera 1168 01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:17,520 but thank you both again and uh i'm sure we'll have further discussions in the 1169 01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:21,760 future thanks for having us thank you uh ms 1170 01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:28,159 lego back to our regularly scheduled agenda 1171 01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:31,120 i think wrong correspondence uh so there if there's no report from the chair then 1172 01:24:29,679 --> 01:24:35,600 yes we're on to correspondence item c1 uh brian thacker pacific 1173 01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:39,280 industrial and marine with a request for a letter of support for bc coast clean 1174 01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:43,840 waters funding project and should the board be willing to provide that letter 1175 01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:45,920 of support the proposed recommendation is that a letter of support be provided 1176 01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:49,440 to pacific industrial and marine for their 1177 01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,840 application to the bc coast clean waters initiative 1178 01:24:50,480 --> 01:24:56,080 thank you i believe that's moved by director yanni dinardo is that a second 1179 01:24:53,600 --> 01:25:00,239 by director wilson yes mr chair and i'd also like to speak 1180 01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:02,239 on it if possible yeah i'll always go to the mover first if you'd like to speak 1181 01:25:01,840 --> 01:25:06,080 to director yanni dinardo and then director 1182 01:25:04,159 --> 01:25:09,679 wilson um yeah this is just um something that 1183 01:25:08,560 --> 01:25:13,840 this uh organization has been doing for a long 1184 01:25:11,600 --> 01:25:16,239 time on their own dime a lot of the time so this is something that's really 1185 01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:22,480 needed in our on our waters so as simple as that 1186 01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:26,639 thank you director wilson thank you mr chair exactly as 1187 01:25:23,520 --> 01:25:29,280 uh director yanni dinardo said uh this is a no-brainer so i said uh let's uh 1188 01:25:28,960 --> 01:25:32,560 just give them the support they need 1189 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:35,600 absolutely and i know that many of the local industries 1190 01:25:33,679 --> 01:25:38,719 have taken it on themselves to be that sort of helper 1191 01:25:36,880 --> 01:25:41,760 in our areas that was solitaire marine here does much the same so i know we're 1192 01:25:40,560 --> 01:25:44,800 all grateful for that so it has been moved in seconded seeing 1193 01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:50,800 no more discussion i'll call the question all those in favor 1194 01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:54,639 any opposed non-opposed motion carries thank you very much ms lego onto 1195 01:25:53,120 --> 01:25:58,159 committee and commission reports item cr1 is the report and recommendations of 1196 01:25:56,639 --> 01:26:03,040 the kerry park recreation commission meeting of november 24th 2020. 1197 01:26:01,199 --> 01:26:05,840 over to you director wilson for those recommendations 1198 01:26:07,199 --> 01:26:13,760 thank you mr chair uh and uh i have uh great pleasure 1199 01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:16,880 in um in saying great stuff good stuff uh let's uh go forward with 1200 01:26:16,159 --> 01:26:20,880 these and uh do i have to pro do i have to move 1201 01:26:19,280 --> 01:26:23,440 the motion it's just a recommendation as far as i could see i move those 1202 01:26:22,080 --> 01:26:26,000 recommendations thank you typically the chair that's 1203 01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,639 presenting them will read the recommendations and say and i move those 1204 01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:32,080 items but uh we can all see them in front of us if 1205 01:26:30,880 --> 01:26:34,560 the board's okay with that i believe it's been seconded by director yanni 1206 01:26:33,679 --> 01:26:38,320 dinardo and discussion director acton 1207 01:26:39,040 --> 01:26:45,920 it's just a quick comment i just wanted to 1208 01:26:42,800 --> 01:26:51,679 point out that the kerry park budget is is on here and i spoke to 1209 01:26:49,280 --> 01:26:55,679 the manager where we had been some question it was a little bit unclear i 1210 01:26:53,840 --> 01:27:02,560 think at our budget meeting but we will be going above uh 1211 01:26:59,040 --> 01:27:05,760 our zero mandate in order to this to take out a loan for the 1212 01:27:04,880 --> 01:27:09,280 pickleball courts i am in favor of the pickleball 1213 01:27:07,840 --> 01:27:13,840 courts but just as a note we are not sticking with the 1214 01:27:11,199 --> 01:27:19,520 zero budget and we will have to uh borrow that money and and come out of 1215 01:27:17,199 --> 01:27:27,520 requisition as well for the first year's payment thank you thank you thank you 1216 01:27:23,360 --> 01:27:31,280 any further discussion director marsh yeah it was a long day yesterday but i 1217 01:27:30,080 --> 01:27:35,040 thought that on this item that director atkins 1218 01:27:33,600 --> 01:27:40,480 mentioned that the board approval was conditional on uh 1219 01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:42,719 the receipt of a grant did i get that wrong 1220 01:27:44,639 --> 01:27:52,400 direct i can i can answer i guess for staff really um 1221 01:27:52,800 --> 01:27:58,880 it will come back to the to the commission to see if we will 1222 01:27:56,800 --> 01:28:03,520 go forward with the pickleball courts if we don't get the grant but 1223 01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:08,320 the okay the loan is in in process and the loan will 1224 01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:12,400 uh or the the requisition will increase to cover the first year of the law okay 1225 01:28:11,679 --> 01:28:17,120 thank you thank you any further discussion it's 1226 01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:21,920 been moved and seconded call the question all those in favor any 1227 01:28:20,000 --> 01:28:26,159 opposed none opposed motion carries moving on to 1228 01:28:24,560 --> 01:28:29,040 cr2 ms lego the report and recommendation of the 1229 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:33,760 couch and lake recreation commission meeting of november 26th 1230 01:28:32,400 --> 01:28:37,600 director kuhn do you want to read that one out i see it there he's moving that 1231 01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:42,320 the draft 2021 draft budget for function 405 couch and 1232 01:28:39,679 --> 01:28:47,120 lake recreation be approved seconded by director morrison any discussion 1233 01:28:44,480 --> 01:28:50,400 seeing none all those in favor and opposed 1234 01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:53,679 none opposed motion carries moving on to cr3 ms lago 1235 01:28:52,159 --> 01:28:57,760 the report and recommendations of the special corporate services committee 1236 01:28:55,040 --> 01:29:00,880 meeting of january 13th i'll go i'll cover those because 1237 01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:03,840 director mcgonagall's i don't believe he's back yet he's just 1238 01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:07,520 going to be a few minutes before he rejoins us 1239 01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:10,880 the recommendations are that one the supplemental request for function 238 1240 01:29:09,600 --> 01:29:15,199 community parks area h fern gully trail bridge hiking in 1241 01:29:12,960 --> 01:29:18,800 equestrian bridge west trail be referred to the january 25th 1242 01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:22,960 special corporate services meeting which just happened the other day 1243 01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:26,000 number two the 2021 draft budget as amended for function 106 commuter 1244 01:29:24,719 --> 01:29:30,159 transit be approved number three that 2021 draft budget as 1245 01:29:28,239 --> 01:29:33,679 amended for function 107 conventional and custom transit services 1246 01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:37,199 be approved number four one that the supplemental request for 1247 01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:40,880 function 100 general government regional recreation 1248 01:29:38,159 --> 01:29:43,920 referendum and analysis be approved for two that the supplemental request for 1249 01:29:42,560 --> 01:29:47,920 function one two one economic development regional connectivity 1250 01:29:45,440 --> 01:29:51,199 strategy be approved number three that the supplemental 1251 01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:54,320 request for function 280 regional parks calcium valley 1252 01:29:52,239 --> 01:29:56,800 trail replacement of major culverts be approved number four that the 1253 01:29:55,520 --> 01:30:00,239 supplemental request for function 280 regional parks 1254 01:29:58,639 --> 01:30:04,159 recreation or sorry regional parks regional active 1255 01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:06,560 transportation plan be approved number five 1256 01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:10,239 that supplemental request for function 280 regional parks vehicle replacement 1257 01:30:08,719 --> 01:30:14,159 be approved number six that the supplemental request for 1258 01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:18,639 function 285 regional park lan power plant acquisition master plan be 1259 01:30:16,719 --> 01:30:22,560 approved number seven that supplemental request for function 520 1260 01:30:20,560 --> 01:30:26,639 solid waste management complex transfer station scale replacement be approved 1261 01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:30,400 number eight the supplemental request for function 520 solid state management 1262 01:30:28,719 --> 01:30:33,679 complex peerless road skid steer replacement 1263 01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:38,239 be approved number five that the draft 2021 budget for function 235 1264 01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:41,280 area e community parks be amended by number one 1265 01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:44,159 increasing minor capital by ten thousand number two increasing invasive species 1266 01:30:43,360 --> 01:30:48,000 management by five thousand number three increasing 1267 01:30:47,199 --> 01:30:53,440 requisition by 15 000. number six that the draft 1268 01:30:50,719 --> 01:30:56,880 2021 budget for function 237 area g community parks 1269 01:30:54,480 --> 01:31:00,639 be amended by one increasing minor capital by 15 000 number two 1270 01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:03,120 increasing major capital land improvements by twenty one thousand 1271 01:31:02,239 --> 01:31:06,400 number three increasing transfer from capital 1272 01:31:04,639 --> 01:31:08,880 reserves by twenty one thousand number four 1273 01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:13,440 increasing transfer from operating reserves by fifteen thousand 1274 01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:16,080 and number seven that 2021 draft budget for function two three eight community 1275 01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:20,480 parks area age be referred to the special corporate 1276 01:31:17,760 --> 01:31:25,840 community services meeting committee meeting of january 25th 2021 1277 01:31:23,440 --> 01:31:30,080 and i'll move those items second by director smith does anybody 1278 01:31:27,679 --> 01:31:35,040 want one pulled okay great question like director 1279 01:31:32,080 --> 01:31:38,239 mcgonagall isn't here i i feel like i was set up but we'll 1280 01:31:36,960 --> 01:31:42,400 move on uh we'll him and i will talk about that 1281 01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:47,520 offline uh but i seeing no further questions i'll call the question 1282 01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:50,960 all those in favor and any opposed non-opposed motion carries i'm moving on 1283 01:31:50,560 --> 01:31:55,520 to cr5 ms lago cr4 1284 01:31:54,159 --> 01:31:58,719 report and recommendations of the community services committee meeting of 1285 01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:03,840 january 13th and staff would request 1286 01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:06,639 the opportunity to speak to item three so perhaps one and two could go forward 1287 01:32:05,679 --> 01:32:10,000 first thank you go ahead and director 1288 01:32:08,480 --> 01:32:13,600 nicholson all right your community services 1289 01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:16,880 committee reports and recommends that number one staff continue the planning 1290 01:32:15,520 --> 01:32:20,400 and analysis work to support implementation of 1291 01:32:18,480 --> 01:32:23,679 inter-regional transit service between the cvrd 1292 01:32:21,280 --> 01:32:26,560 and the regional district of nanaimo as described in 1293 01:32:24,400 --> 01:32:29,760 option one of the staff report to the january 13th community services 1294 01:32:28,400 --> 01:32:33,040 committee and number two that the annual operating 1295 01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:37,679 agreement with bc transit for the period of april 1st 2020 1296 01:32:35,679 --> 01:32:42,560 to march 31st 2021 be approved thank you and 1297 01:32:40,960 --> 01:32:47,199 that's been moved second by director yanni dinardo questions 1298 01:32:45,520 --> 01:32:51,520 seeing none call the question all those in favor 1299 01:32:48,800 --> 01:32:55,840 and any opposed an opposed motion carries miss lego on number three 1300 01:32:54,080 --> 01:32:59,120 thank you and i'm going to pass it over to april diver 1301 01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:04,159 from our emergency management division to speak to item three 1302 01:33:02,239 --> 01:33:08,000 thank you thank you thank you miss lego and to the chair uh 1303 01:33:05,679 --> 01:33:12,080 we have just learned that cowhitchin tribes would like to be a part of this 1304 01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:15,679 grant application originally the grant application was 1305 01:33:13,679 --> 01:33:20,400 going forward with our four municipal partners on the cvrd and 1306 01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:25,040 cowichan tribes has requested to join that application and 1307 01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:29,280 therefore um we are recommending a revised motion 1308 01:33:27,440 --> 01:33:32,400 um which is as follows that a grant application in the amount of 1309 01:33:30,719 --> 01:33:35,760 one hundred and sixty one thousand one hundred and fifty dollars be submitted 1310 01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:39,280 to the union of british columbia municipalities community emergency 1311 01:33:37,360 --> 01:33:42,960 preparedness fund initiative for the purchase of emergency support 1312 01:33:41,040 --> 01:33:46,000 services electronic equipment storage units a second mobile unit and delivery 1313 01:33:44,960 --> 01:33:50,639 of training thank you thank you so i believe that's 1314 01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:55,840 been moved by director yanni leonardo and seconded by director marsh 1315 01:33:52,719 --> 01:33:59,600 any discussion okay so i've got some points myself i have director smith and 1316 01:34:02,840 --> 01:34:10,560 morrison i do we have any details on the the 1317 01:34:07,520 --> 01:34:14,080 couch and tribe's inclusion and what the document looks like for their 1318 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:18,560 inclusion uh this sounds like a great opportunity 1319 01:34:16,560 --> 01:34:22,159 and i'd just like to have a further understanding as there is no 1320 01:34:20,800 --> 01:34:26,000 document to support it thank you i'll put that 1321 01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:30,880 through to mr carruthers or ms driver miss diver 1322 01:34:29,360 --> 01:34:37,040 sorry uh thank you chair uh so there is a 1323 01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:40,320 revised budget um essentially with the addition of the sixth 1324 01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:44,080 partner into this grant application we're just increasing the number of 1325 01:34:42,480 --> 01:34:50,080 um pieces of equipment that we're purchasing so some additional 1326 01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:56,080 mobile laptops as well as supporting the purchase of a storage unit 1327 01:34:53,679 --> 01:35:00,880 and a concrete pad so that they can place some of these supplies 1328 01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:04,400 for emergency support services on the south side of the river so that's 1329 01:35:03,920 --> 01:35:08,320 the there's a revised budget that can be 1330 01:35:06,159 --> 01:35:12,880 submitted if required thank you that answer the question 1331 01:35:11,119 --> 01:35:16,080 director smith okay thank you director morrison and 1332 01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:19,199 then marsh questions been answered thank you thank 1333 01:35:18,239 --> 01:35:26,000 you director marsh yeah i just wanted to 1334 01:35:22,880 --> 01:35:31,600 acknowledge that this is really to me quite a seminal moment 1335 01:35:28,080 --> 01:35:38,080 that in terms of our efforts at reconciliation um 1336 01:35:34,719 --> 01:35:41,440 starting to show in um practical ways and i'm really thrilled 1337 01:35:40,880 --> 01:35:45,760 that staff brought this to us and i and i'm 1338 01:35:44,159 --> 01:35:50,800 really thrilled that um tribes brought it to the cvrd it's very 1339 01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:50,800 exciting 1340 01:35:50,960 --> 01:35:56,400 thank you that leads to my question through to staff i appreciate that we've 1341 01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:59,840 brought couch and tribes into this application but what was there 1342 01:35:58,159 --> 01:36:03,040 what other engagement was there with the other nations in our region 1343 01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:08,320 so we have reached out to all of the areas and didn't hear back from any of 1344 01:36:07,600 --> 01:36:11,119 the others and it just could be that couch and 1345 01:36:09,760 --> 01:36:13,440 tribes is a little further along in their process with the emergency support 1346 01:36:12,719 --> 01:36:16,800 services program thank you and i appreciate very 1347 01:36:15,679 --> 01:36:20,560 much that that our staff reached out to our other 1348 01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:25,199 neighboring nations that's important thank you very much um so with any 1349 01:36:23,440 --> 01:36:30,000 further discussion i'm seeing none i'll call the question on the motion as 1350 01:36:27,199 --> 01:36:33,280 uh moved and seconded all those in favor any opposed 1351 01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:38,000 none opposed motion carries thank you for that um 1352 01:36:34,880 --> 01:36:43,040 ms lego now i think we're on cr5 i was excited to get there uh ms lego thank 1353 01:36:41,040 --> 01:36:47,760 you cr5 report and recommendations of the electoral area services committee 1354 01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:47,760 meeting of january 20th 1355 01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:54,560 directory annie dinardo take it away thank you mr chair 1356 01:36:51,440 --> 01:36:57,199 i would like to move um one through ten please 1357 01:36:55,280 --> 01:36:59,520 and i just have a correction on number nine 1358 01:36:59,679 --> 01:37:06,000 first of all so these are grants and eight so one through ten 1359 01:37:03,840 --> 01:37:09,679 thank you uh so i i thought you were going to read them out so i was running 1360 01:37:07,440 --> 01:37:12,880 over to grab something and come back but i'm not i'm not reading them out they're 1361 01:37:11,520 --> 01:37:16,960 all in front of us i hope okay everybody's okay with that it's one 1362 01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:19,840 through ten and i have a correction on number nine if that's 1363 01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:24,639 okay go ahead and make the correction in number nine and then we i did 1364 01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:30,679 have um the 2 500 for the nature center it's actually 450 1365 01:37:27,199 --> 01:37:34,719 dollars for the sea squirt program and 2050 dollars for an outdoor interpretive 1366 01:37:33,760 --> 01:37:40,320 signage so the total amount wasn't just for the um 1367 01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:45,280 preschool program it was divided up i just wanted to make that correction 1368 01:37:42,000 --> 01:37:48,800 okay thank you that staff got that all right and then the block is being 1369 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:52,080 moved as amended by director yanni dinardo 1370 01:37:49,760 --> 01:37:56,000 do we have a seconder seconded by director wilson 1371 01:37:53,280 --> 01:38:00,639 any discussion on those seeing none all those in favor 1372 01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:05,520 any opposed and unopposed motion carries back to your directory 1373 01:38:02,159 --> 01:38:11,840 chair i'd like to move 11 through 13 please that's been moved seconded by 1374 01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:15,600 director smith any discussion on those seeing none all those in favor and 1375 01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:20,080 opposed non-opposed motion carries directory 1376 01:38:17,760 --> 01:38:23,679 annie dinardo thank you mr chair this is area directors only and it's 14 through 1377 01:38:22,960 --> 01:38:28,880 21 i move those items thank you second 1378 01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:33,600 by director wilson discussion on any of those 1379 01:38:30,480 --> 01:38:41,280 seeing none all those in favor any opposed non-opposed motion carries 1380 01:38:38,159 --> 01:38:48,080 that is my report mr chair thank you uh director marsh a question 1381 01:38:45,440 --> 01:38:53,040 i just wanted to congratulate uh director 1382 01:38:48,719 --> 01:38:53,040 yanni darnito for the shortest 1383 01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:58,719 going through of one of the longest committee agendas i've ever participated 1384 01:38:58,480 --> 01:39:04,560 in well done thank you 1385 01:39:02,159 --> 01:39:08,239 uh moving on to sr2 because we've already dealt with sr1 ms lego 1386 01:39:06,800 --> 01:39:11,679 thank you mr chair report from the legislative services division 1387 01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:14,880 on setting a date for the parcel tax world review panel and the 1388 01:39:12,880 --> 01:39:18,159 recommendation is that the reparcel tax rule review panel sitting be scheduled 1389 01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:25,199 for wednesday february 17 2021 at 12 30 p.m to be held virtually 1390 01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:25,199 via the cvrd ingram street office 1391 01:39:25,679 --> 01:39:30,560 moved by director smith seconded by director 1392 01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:41,280 duncan and discussion seeing none all those in favor any opposed 1393 01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:44,639 unopposed motion carries missed the goal another staff report from legislative 1394 01:39:42,880 --> 01:39:48,159 services on virtual meetings and live public participation 1395 01:39:46,000 --> 01:39:50,880 and the recommendation proposed is one that virtual board 1396 01:39:49,360 --> 01:39:54,000 select and standing committee meetings be continued and two that live public 1397 01:39:53,199 --> 01:39:57,199 participation in public input period and question 1398 01:39:55,520 --> 01:40:00,880 period for virtual board select and standing committee meetings 1399 01:39:58,880 --> 01:40:04,639 be implemented as outlined in option one of the staff report 1400 01:40:03,199 --> 01:40:08,880 thank you is that moved by director acton 1401 01:40:06,960 --> 01:40:12,719 okay and seconded by director wilson and discussion 1402 01:40:10,960 --> 01:40:16,159 um i just want to make some comment based on some of the feedback from the 1403 01:40:14,239 --> 01:40:19,440 public uh and i'll go around the directors 1404 01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:24,000 i think i saw directors nicholson salmon marsh 1405 01:40:20,639 --> 01:40:28,000 did i miss anyone i didn't uh just uh i think we're trying to find a balance 1406 01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:31,679 um so those are some good comments at the beginning 1407 01:40:28,800 --> 01:40:36,400 um but i will say that there has to be some limits 1408 01:40:32,560 --> 01:40:36,400 i think it's always sorry 1409 01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:45,280 i couldn't figure out who was cut me off uh was there a point of order did i do 1410 01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:51,119 something wrong no okay i'll continue uh the um 1411 01:40:49,440 --> 01:40:55,040 you know it's always about balance i think that there's uh limits to 1412 01:40:53,280 --> 01:40:58,960 public input just like there would be an in-person board meeting 1413 01:40:56,400 --> 01:41:04,000 i respect that people have uh challenges possibly with technology 1414 01:41:00,719 --> 01:41:08,639 um so i think that there's some good um the committee and the board chair can 1415 01:41:06,800 --> 01:41:11,280 make some decisions during that public input 1416 01:41:09,199 --> 01:41:14,560 but unfortunately if somebody sends an email in 1417 01:41:12,480 --> 01:41:19,600 but we have more than the allotted time of live in person public 1418 01:41:17,119 --> 01:41:22,560 input um you know i think it's really up to the committee or the board to decide 1419 01:41:21,199 --> 01:41:26,719 how they handle that if they either extend the public input period to allow 1420 01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:32,400 additional submissions to be read or those are forwarded on to the board 1421 01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:36,239 again my my personal comments i've always maintained that last minute input 1422 01:41:34,800 --> 01:41:40,080 on items on an agenda is not the way to influence decision 1423 01:41:38,000 --> 01:41:45,119 makers that the best way to do that is to send an email well in advance 1424 01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:49,440 if possible to help them give give them the opportunity to 1425 01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:54,000 think through it so i would always recommend get as much input as you can 1426 01:41:51,360 --> 01:41:57,280 as far in advance as possible to your board members so that they can really 1427 01:41:55,679 --> 01:42:00,960 consider that in the decision-making process 1428 01:41:58,639 --> 01:42:05,199 and i know that i will as chair and i believe that community chairs will do 1429 01:42:02,800 --> 01:42:09,040 whatever we think is reasonable to help support good engagement and 1430 01:42:06,960 --> 01:42:12,800 community input and question period uh but i'll turn it over i have directors 1431 01:42:10,639 --> 01:42:17,440 nicholson salmon and then marsha i believe on my speakers list 1432 01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:21,840 and then act and sorry if i missed you so i guess i um i'd like to speak to 1433 01:42:21,199 --> 01:42:28,560 that i i would like clarification on whether 1434 01:42:25,440 --> 01:42:32,560 in our policy which allows us to extend the um period is is still going to be 1435 01:42:31,600 --> 01:42:38,320 possible and um that people 1436 01:42:36,639 --> 01:42:42,159 if they i don't know will they be advised if they were they've made it 1437 01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:45,440 they're the first five or the first ten or whatever 1438 01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:50,480 so that they can write in their submission if they if they can't 1439 01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:53,040 because i really appreciate getting um a cross-section of what the community is 1440 01:42:52,239 --> 01:42:58,719 thinking on topics i don't wanna miss anything 1441 01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:03,280 uh i could put that through to staff i believe that policy allows the board 1442 01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:07,360 or the committee to extend or public input or question period 1443 01:43:04,880 --> 01:43:10,239 by resolution um so i think that would remain 1444 01:43:08,000 --> 01:43:12,800 um i seen staff nodding but if you can just uh 1445 01:43:11,199 --> 01:43:15,679 provide us further clarity on those questions 1446 01:43:14,239 --> 01:43:18,080 well again it will depend on how the board chooses to proceed in this way but 1447 01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:21,679 if if we are limiting the number of 1448 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:24,560 submissions to five for live public participation 1449 01:43:24,960 --> 01:43:30,400 in theory each of those participants would have three minutes 1450 01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:35,040 which would be the full 15 minute submission so if you wanted to allow one 1451 01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:38,880 of those speakers to speak for longer but it wasn't anticipated to you know if 1452 01:43:38,159 --> 01:43:46,560 we received 10 requests for public input period 1453 01:43:43,199 --> 01:43:50,560 to facilitate meeting management putting some parameters around the 1454 01:43:49,040 --> 01:43:54,800 number of participants would be helpful for staff to manage the 1455 01:43:52,480 --> 01:43:54,800 meeting 1456 01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:59,920 good point thank you go ahead director nicholson follow up 1457 01:43:58,239 --> 01:44:04,239 yeah i i think that we have to think this one through because i think 1458 01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:08,880 um people the the people who would like to participate need to know in advance 1459 01:44:06,159 --> 01:44:11,710 if they will be able to because you know otherwise they may 1460 01:44:10,239 --> 01:44:17,840 choose to watch this later [Laughter] 1461 01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:21,679 so i think we have to make it you know reasonable for everyone 1462 01:44:19,679 --> 01:44:23,840 yeah i think the challenge is it's just like people who show up for a meeting 1463 01:44:23,360 --> 01:44:27,119 right there's no guarantee that if they're 10 1464 01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:30,960 deep in the speaker's list for community for public input 1465 01:44:28,320 --> 01:44:35,520 that they'll be allowed to speak so i don't know 1466 01:44:32,239 --> 01:44:39,600 suggestions are welcome go ahead i i i know and that's the challenge but it 1467 01:44:37,840 --> 01:44:44,400 also there are sometimes we could get a very contentious issue 1468 01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:47,520 um you know like the estuary thing or or something or a motorsport thing or 1469 01:44:46,400 --> 01:44:51,520 whatever it is something as contentious as that and it 1470 01:44:49,440 --> 01:44:56,880 would be a real shame to limit um because we weren't able to 1471 01:44:54,880 --> 01:45:00,960 accommodate so i just think we need to to be flexible and figure out ways of 1472 01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:03,840 managing this ahead of time um 1473 01:45:04,320 --> 01:45:11,119 okay so i'll take that as a good comment we can think on it 1474 01:45:08,320 --> 01:45:14,639 but i would suggest that a recommend a a solution to that issue 1475 01:45:12,560 --> 01:45:17,520 might be a way for us to help shape the discussion and i do recognize that we've 1476 01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:20,800 moved and seconded the option so an amendment 1477 01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:24,239 would be necessary but i'll keep my eyes open for that 1478 01:45:22,480 --> 01:45:31,119 amendment to be forthcoming i think i have director salmon and then 1479 01:45:26,000 --> 01:45:34,400 marsha and then acton yeah thank you so yeah just a question about question 1480 01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:38,080 period i was thinking about this particularly 1481 01:45:35,679 --> 01:45:43,280 with my chairing debut earlier today but um i believe our 1482 01:45:40,880 --> 01:45:47,600 policy says that only the chair can respond to questions but i'm 1483 01:45:45,360 --> 01:45:52,000 thinking that um you know in the case or i was thinking 1484 01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:55,600 today if i got a question about the uh the climate adaptation plan drinking 1485 01:45:54,159 --> 01:46:00,080 water policy i i'm sure that staff would know 1486 01:45:58,080 --> 01:46:03,280 and i might not so i'm wondering if it's uh 1487 01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:06,800 within the chair's latitude if if he sees a staff 1488 01:46:04,159 --> 01:46:10,560 staffer wanting to you know volunteering to answer if that's uh 1489 01:46:08,639 --> 01:46:13,280 find it i think it would improve our public service and responsiveness if we 1490 01:46:12,400 --> 01:46:18,080 could just uh make that decision on on the spot 1491 01:46:20,480 --> 01:46:25,840 i i'm taking that as input or is that a question for someone in particular i'm 1492 01:46:24,880 --> 01:46:28,960 just making sure that's okay if the chair 1493 01:46:27,280 --> 01:46:32,320 decides to do that that's i i would put that through the staff i 1494 01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:36,159 know in the past they felt put on the spot by unexpected questions kind of 1495 01:46:34,400 --> 01:46:42,159 tossed over to them but i would put that over to staff 1496 01:46:40,000 --> 01:46:45,520 yeah thank you mr chair i'm i you know i i have mixed feelings about that i 1497 01:46:44,080 --> 01:46:48,400 you know clearly there are the odd questions that come up that staff can 1498 01:46:47,119 --> 01:46:52,239 very easily answer uh we have the you know we have the 1499 01:46:50,239 --> 01:46:57,040 answer but often that has been the experience that there's been some fairly 1500 01:46:55,119 --> 01:47:01,280 controversial questions or questions that staff haven't been prepared for and 1501 01:46:58,800 --> 01:47:05,840 are expected to answer on the on the fly and that's not a good practice so i 1502 01:47:04,239 --> 01:47:08,719 wouldn't mind chatting with the board chairs about 1503 01:47:07,040 --> 01:47:11,840 about a process to deal with that because i appreciate what director 1504 01:47:10,080 --> 01:47:16,400 salmon's saying is that you know if we can simply answer a question 1505 01:47:13,679 --> 01:47:19,040 uh for the public it it makes it easy so it would have to 1506 01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:22,719 allow staff to have some discretion on whether they feel comfortable answering 1507 01:47:20,480 --> 01:47:25,840 that question at the time in a brief way um or whether more research would be 1508 01:47:24,719 --> 01:47:29,440 required and i think we we shifted the pendulum to just the 1509 01:47:27,520 --> 01:47:32,560 chair answering the questions so that that staff weren't put on the spot in 1510 01:47:31,280 --> 01:47:37,440 those occasions okay okay thank you sorry and just an 1511 01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:40,960 observation was uh municipally we had this issue where staff were 1512 01:47:38,880 --> 01:47:44,400 accounting for significant overtime waiting for question period 1513 01:47:42,639 --> 01:47:47,840 so for example their item would come up at the beginning of a council meeting 1514 01:47:45,840 --> 01:47:51,920 and then four and a half hours later question period comes and there was some 1515 01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:56,320 expectation that they would remain for another four hours past their item 1516 01:47:54,480 --> 01:47:59,600 meanwhile the municipality was being charged for that staff time where they 1517 01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:02,880 couldn't be doing either other duties or going home for the evening 1518 01:48:01,360 --> 01:48:07,040 and that was putting a significant burden on the resources of the 1519 01:48:04,719 --> 01:48:09,679 municipality just to pay staff just in case 1520 01:48:07,679 --> 01:48:12,239 a question came forward on their item that came up at the beginning of the 1521 01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:15,600 agenda so it's just another consideration 1522 01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:18,159 when we look at those those bigger issues and i've always said if the goal 1523 01:48:17,199 --> 01:48:22,719 is really to get an answer the fullest answer they could 1524 01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:26,880 possibly get isn't necessarily from anyone at question period is 1525 01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:29,520 actually to have them get a fulsome response 1526 01:48:27,760 --> 01:48:33,600 via email so it just becomes the question is it about answering the 1527 01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:36,320 question and getting an answer or is it about 1528 01:48:34,239 --> 01:48:41,520 an opportunity to to express some feelings in a public meeting right 1529 01:48:38,400 --> 01:48:47,840 so um that being said um all good information i have director marsh then 1530 01:48:43,360 --> 01:48:47,840 act and then wilson 1531 01:48:51,600 --> 01:49:00,800 thank you mr chair i don't know why i'm challenged about muting and unmuting 1532 01:48:58,080 --> 01:49:06,080 i agree with what mr carruthers said i'm sure that the chairs and the staff 1533 01:49:02,880 --> 01:49:12,239 can come up with a a smooth way that uh the chair can answer a question 1534 01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:14,719 even if they don't know the answer and that the public can get a fulsome answer 1535 01:49:14,239 --> 01:49:18,480 i i'm very appreciative that this report 1536 01:49:17,840 --> 01:49:24,639 allows for video coming in 1537 01:49:21,679 --> 01:49:29,760 as well as phone calls and i wondered what it meant 1538 01:49:25,679 --> 01:49:35,840 by real time back and forth okay i'm trying to find that place real 1539 01:49:32,480 --> 01:49:35,840 time question and answer 1540 01:49:38,800 --> 01:49:45,599 i guess that's um i don't know who would answer that but i guess that's 1541 01:49:42,560 --> 01:49:49,360 at question period it's live on the phone or it's live 1542 01:49:47,280 --> 01:49:52,080 they get the answer just like if they were in the room 1543 01:49:50,560 --> 01:49:56,880 yeah i would put that through the staff but that was my interpretation 1544 01:49:54,400 --> 01:50:00,000 okay so the the last thing i would say is just 1545 01:49:57,679 --> 01:50:03,760 um i have a different view than chairstone about 1546 01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:07,840 the public giving information at the last minute not being the best time to 1547 01:50:05,920 --> 01:50:12,719 do it because i have this thing that i learned from 1548 01:50:10,960 --> 01:50:15,840 the former executive director of wormland 1549 01:50:14,239 --> 01:50:20,800 that there's pockets of brilliance everywhere and when we come here 1550 01:50:18,480 --> 01:50:24,800 hopefully we haven't been talking beforehand about how we're going to vote 1551 01:50:22,960 --> 01:50:29,199 and we listen to each other's viewpoints and sometimes it changes 1552 01:50:26,639 --> 01:50:33,760 what we're thinking and i think that our public deserves that same 1553 01:50:30,719 --> 01:50:38,560 respect because any one of them in any election could end up 1554 01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:43,119 being at this table so if they at the input period have an idea that is 1555 01:50:42,480 --> 01:50:46,639 like a brilliant pocket of brilliance i would 1556 01:50:45,119 --> 01:50:52,000 think that we would um you know be swayed by that if it 1557 01:50:50,080 --> 01:50:54,719 if it made sense to us as individuals thank you 1558 01:50:53,360 --> 01:50:58,960 thank you and i'm always loathed to respond to others comments but i said 1559 01:50:56,480 --> 01:51:02,800 always the more time we have to consider it the better i've never 1560 01:51:00,159 --> 01:51:05,040 been against question period nor public input 1561 01:51:03,360 --> 01:51:09,119 just the more time we have to consider points of view the more time we can 1562 01:51:06,639 --> 01:51:12,639 incorporate it in our decision king all right moving on to director 1563 01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:17,119 can i reply to that mr chair sorry director marsh i know that that that 1564 01:51:14,719 --> 01:51:20,239 that again you you made a statement about my statement but you 1565 01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:25,440 mischaracterized my intentions and i was just clarifying that 1566 01:51:21,840 --> 01:51:32,840 thanks well i wanted to clarify my did i okay that's okay 1567 01:51:29,040 --> 01:51:37,679 thank you director acton thank you mr chair 1568 01:51:34,320 --> 01:51:45,280 i'm asking myself some questions um with the perception that 1569 01:51:41,599 --> 01:51:48,800 i understand that you know i respect that we have people who want to come to 1570 01:51:47,199 --> 01:51:53,119 our meetings and but then i'm asking what is our goal 1571 01:51:51,760 --> 01:52:00,239 here and i'm also asking are we just creating 1572 01:51:56,719 --> 01:52:05,199 more ways for the same input so that is a question i have 1573 01:52:01,280 --> 01:52:09,440 but what's our goal here is it to create more diverse public input i that's what 1574 01:52:08,320 --> 01:52:13,040 i hope it is and that's not real i don't think this 1575 01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:16,880 is going to accomplish it if we really want to try and get more 1576 01:52:14,960 --> 01:52:22,639 input from people i think we could have a thorough uh discussion on that 1577 01:52:20,480 --> 01:52:26,719 and figure out ways of how to get people interested 1578 01:52:23,599 --> 01:52:30,000 in and i can actually think of a couple different ways right now but i won't 1579 01:52:28,880 --> 01:52:35,599 share them because it's not exactly on par with the discussion 1580 01:52:33,599 --> 01:52:39,199 but i also i don't know if it was in the public comment or that you know some 1581 01:52:37,280 --> 01:52:45,199 people don't have email but that is pretty much the only way 1582 01:52:42,960 --> 01:52:49,840 people are getting agendas right now i i would 1583 01:52:46,560 --> 01:52:52,800 i highly doubt there's very many people who show up at the cbrd to look at the 1584 01:52:51,840 --> 01:52:58,960 printed agenda so that people already have 1585 01:52:56,159 --> 01:53:02,800 email i just don't see it in here too where 1586 01:52:59,840 --> 01:53:07,119 we don't want to like i don't think it's good 1587 01:53:03,679 --> 01:53:12,880 for us to be receiving an email then the public input and then the question 1588 01:53:09,440 --> 01:53:17,040 and it's just a constant because i in my opinion we've already made some 1589 01:53:14,800 --> 01:53:22,320 bad decisions around all of this by pressure uh to make certain decisions 1590 01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:30,719 on the fly so again my overall 1591 01:53:26,080 --> 01:53:30,719 is what is the true goal here and 1592 01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:37,199 are we accomplishing it and i think what our true 1593 01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:42,000 intentions are is to create more public input 1594 01:53:37,920 --> 01:53:47,360 but this is not necessarily the way in my opinion thank you 1595 01:53:45,520 --> 01:53:51,199 um i will note that it feels like we've had this groundhog day discussion on 1596 01:53:49,199 --> 01:53:54,560 public input for a long time and i would always appreciate that if people 1597 01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:57,199 have other thoughts about how we can more 1598 01:53:55,040 --> 01:53:59,440 get more meaningful and varied public input that we need to bring them forward 1599 01:53:58,719 --> 01:54:05,360 not just allude to an ethereal idea of how do we 1600 01:54:03,280 --> 01:54:08,880 support better public input so if you have recommendations 1601 01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:13,599 you can put it forward as an amendment to the resolution or whatever whatever 1602 01:54:10,719 --> 01:54:16,960 way you think might work better well so are you saying that our goal is 1603 01:54:15,280 --> 01:54:26,800 to create more public input or is it just to facilitate 1604 01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:31,760 the digital forum for the same uh input that we're already 1605 01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:34,960 getting well i don't know i think i think from 1606 01:54:33,440 --> 01:54:38,320 my perspective and we all may have different 1607 01:54:35,520 --> 01:54:42,159 perspectives was to try and simulate the live experience as best as possible 1608 01:54:40,639 --> 01:54:46,560 and i thought that's what what was delivered here but if there is 1609 01:54:44,159 --> 01:54:49,760 ideas that can better support you know uh 1610 01:54:47,679 --> 01:54:51,679 more meaningful public input that the directors could always put that forward 1611 01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:57,920 as either an additional motion or a an 1612 01:54:54,719 --> 01:55:00,880 amendment to the existing motion so that's all i was saying 1613 01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:05,840 thank you i do have ideas but i don't feel comfortable sharing them right now 1614 01:55:05,119 --> 01:55:09,760 because we're not in the process of brainstorming uh ideas 1615 01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:15,840 on how to conduct business at the moment in a more 1616 01:55:13,040 --> 01:55:20,320 uh interactive and and way for the community 1617 01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:24,159 to engage further community members but when i'm happy to have that discussion 1618 01:55:22,880 --> 01:55:29,520 with everyone when they're when we're all on that page okay 1619 01:55:27,280 --> 01:55:32,239 well um we can have further discussion about maybe if we try this out for a 1620 01:55:31,119 --> 01:55:36,080 couple meetings and we reflect on how it works we can look 1621 01:55:34,719 --> 01:55:42,080 at amending it further i'm not sure but uh i have 1622 01:55:38,080 --> 01:55:42,080 director wilson i think next 1623 01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:47,280 thank you mr chair i almost lost my train of thought with all the 1624 01:55:45,599 --> 01:55:51,199 meanderings and wanderings that's going on here with the 1625 01:55:48,480 --> 01:55:54,320 various bits and pieces um i'd like to respond 1626 01:55:51,920 --> 01:55:57,599 first of all to mr carruthers there is no intention here at all on question 1627 01:55:56,719 --> 01:56:02,400 period to put anyone on the spot the intention is 1628 01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:05,599 that if and and i for if i'm the chair and i ask the staff 1629 01:56:05,199 --> 01:56:08,719 if they're anybody here who feels 1630 01:56:07,920 --> 01:56:13,119 comfortable with answering that question sure let them go 1631 01:56:11,599 --> 01:56:15,599 why not i'm not going to put you on the spot and if they don't feel comfortable 1632 01:56:14,480 --> 01:56:19,040 they will say so this is not a question of putting 1633 01:56:16,960 --> 01:56:22,560 anybody on the spot public input is an integral part of this whole 1634 01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:26,000 process and any chance we get to give the public 1635 01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:30,639 an answer straight away i will take and i'm not 1636 01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:34,880 going to put anyone on the spot it's not the intention i i'm looking just 1637 01:56:33,840 --> 01:56:39,360 purely for somebody with the expertise and with the 1638 01:56:37,679 --> 01:56:44,560 knowledge who feels comfortable with answering a question which is put 1639 01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:49,840 by the public thank you okay thank you uh director yanni dinardo 1640 01:56:48,159 --> 01:56:54,880 thank you mr chair i i have learned through experience if you are a chair 1641 01:56:52,000 --> 01:56:57,679 that it is best to direct them to the staff 1642 01:56:56,000 --> 01:57:01,440 that they need to speak to that they could speak to one-on-one 1643 01:56:59,599 --> 01:57:06,800 because it makes it it makes it much easier and much clearer 1644 01:57:03,440 --> 01:57:10,080 to do that so it's not about not um like putting people on the spot or it's 1645 01:57:08,800 --> 01:57:14,800 not insulting anyone it's it's it's clearer if you're a chair 1646 01:57:12,800 --> 01:57:18,000 that if i could direct that person's question to the 1647 01:57:15,760 --> 01:57:22,880 because i can't answer it if it goes to the staff person that they can contact 1648 01:57:20,880 --> 01:57:26,560 so i don't see a problem we're not trying to 1649 01:57:24,400 --> 01:57:30,880 not answer it it just makes it much easier than you get the exact answer 1650 01:57:28,719 --> 01:57:33,520 from the person who has the knowledge of that question 1651 01:57:34,080 --> 01:57:46,400 thank you um director mcgonagall and as a chair of a very long 1652 01:57:42,639 --> 01:57:50,400 committee and very pointed questions i find it difficult to to answer some of 1653 01:57:48,880 --> 01:57:54,880 those on the fly if i do not have the appropriate answer 1654 01:57:53,199 --> 01:57:58,960 i don't want to give an answer that is untrue 1655 01:57:55,760 --> 01:58:03,360 or unsubstantiated if i don't feel comfortable answering the question 1656 01:58:00,800 --> 01:58:09,760 i would encourage that person to contact the appropriate staff person 1657 01:58:05,520 --> 01:58:12,880 for a affirmative answer through email i believe that would be the best policy 1658 01:58:12,000 --> 01:58:17,280 moving forward instead of giving the wrong answer no i 1659 01:58:15,599 --> 01:58:19,679 think that is the policy at present if the chair doesn't feel comfortable with 1660 01:58:18,800 --> 01:58:23,440 the answer they can refer that to staff and staff 1661 01:58:22,239 --> 01:58:27,280 can follow up with the the question i believe but mr crothers 1662 01:58:25,440 --> 01:58:31,119 is that not the case it's more about making like calling on a 1663 01:58:29,599 --> 01:58:35,520 staff member in the moment that may not be ready but is go ahead 1664 01:58:34,000 --> 01:58:40,080 you're correct mr chair and my my comments earlier were 1665 01:58:36,719 --> 01:58:43,520 were span a number of years of of doing this and and having various issues come 1666 01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:46,960 forward to the board and there's many times that questions are 1667 01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:52,000 straightforward but there's often times where the questions are designed in such 1668 01:58:50,159 --> 01:58:56,400 a way to create a certain amount of debate back 1669 01:58:54,880 --> 01:59:00,239 and forth and that's really where it gets awkward for 1670 01:58:57,360 --> 01:59:04,000 for staff so if the if the person asking the question is truly interested in 1671 01:59:01,840 --> 01:59:07,199 getting a good answer to the question referring them to staff so that we can 1672 01:59:05,760 --> 01:59:09,280 answer them like we would for anybody else 1673 01:59:07,760 --> 01:59:14,320 in a controlled environment would be great with that said there are lots of 1674 01:59:11,520 --> 01:59:17,599 questions that come up that uh myself or any of the senior managers would be more 1675 01:59:16,080 --> 01:59:21,599 than happy to put our hand up and answer the question very briefly and 1676 01:59:19,119 --> 01:59:24,960 and succinctly um but it has caused problems in the past and i've i've 1677 01:59:23,199 --> 01:59:28,800 watched meetings where staff may not and i didn't mean that any chair 1678 01:59:27,280 --> 01:59:32,320 or somebody was putting staff on the spot but 1679 01:59:29,599 --> 01:59:35,520 it happens and and staff naturally want to respond 1680 01:59:33,679 --> 01:59:39,360 but they're they're awkward situations sometimes and so we just need to be 1681 01:59:37,280 --> 01:59:42,080 cognizant of that and find a balance between 1682 01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:45,119 those questions that are better answered when they have time to research and give 1683 01:59:43,920 --> 01:59:48,800 a thoughtful answer versus those that i could put my hand up 1684 01:59:46,880 --> 01:59:51,920 as a cio and very simply ask to answer a question for the public okay 1685 01:59:51,280 --> 01:59:57,119 thank you director yanni dinardo thank you mr 1686 01:59:55,440 --> 02:00:02,560 chair and also when you've sat through five hours or four hours 1687 01:59:59,119 --> 02:00:06,880 and you're not thinking clearly yourself because i know we did have a comment i'm 1688 02:00:04,239 --> 02:00:10,960 not sure if it was email from a public from a member a resident that said that 1689 02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:14,880 the chairs are not knowledgeable enough that they need to 1690 02:00:12,320 --> 02:00:18,880 you know it's really difficult in these in these positions so 1691 02:00:16,239 --> 02:00:22,000 it's much better to give a clearer i don't know 1692 02:00:19,679 --> 02:00:25,920 can i direct you to someone else because you're now exhausted so 1693 02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:29,679 you know there has to be leeway both ways and um 1694 02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:36,480 i just wanted to make that comment thank you any further discussion on this 1695 02:00:33,599 --> 02:00:36,480 director nicholson 1696 02:00:37,360 --> 02:00:43,119 well i'd like to come back to my problem that i'm having about the 1697 02:00:41,040 --> 02:00:48,159 length of time if we have a contentious issue so i i'm assuming if we have a 1698 02:00:45,679 --> 02:00:50,960 just a regular the people that are paying attention to our meetings who 1699 02:00:49,520 --> 02:00:54,320 like to provide input at the beginning that we can easily 1700 02:00:53,040 --> 02:01:00,080 accommodate them with five people in the 15 minutes and 1701 02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:02,800 if um we have any extra time there i suggest that if we get 1702 02:01:01,199 --> 02:01:05,520 written submissions because it's nice that people have the option to either 1703 02:01:04,320 --> 02:01:10,320 write in or to request to to come in person um i i 1704 02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:14,000 suggest that we try and cover those in that period as well 1705 02:01:12,239 --> 02:01:20,800 because i agree with um the comment of miss kaufman it is 1706 02:01:17,280 --> 02:01:24,960 this is this is more about a community a community dialogue really than than 1707 02:01:23,199 --> 02:01:31,760 just a cbrd uh board thing um so 1708 02:01:28,639 --> 02:01:35,040 that said it i i guess i need clarity on whether the the board is 1709 02:01:34,320 --> 02:01:41,520 willing to if ms lego receives 1710 02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:47,199 many requests if she if we're willing to automatically move to uh 1711 02:01:43,760 --> 02:01:53,520 10 people as opposed to five people extend it without or do we ask people to 1712 02:01:50,320 --> 02:01:53,520 put them on hold or 1713 02:01:54,320 --> 02:01:59,599 while we while we debate it at the time i'm not quite sure how that could 1714 02:01:58,159 --> 02:02:03,199 that can be handled but i think we need to be clear so people understand and if 1715 02:02:01,520 --> 02:02:06,480 we're changing our policy be very clear about that 1716 02:02:04,880 --> 02:02:09,520 thank you i would put that through the staff i wonder if there's a way that we 1717 02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:14,080 could say you know that we up the limit from five to ten or 1718 02:02:12,320 --> 02:02:18,480 whatever the number is but let people know that the 1719 02:02:15,280 --> 02:02:22,320 you know again i i'm loath to start 30-minute start every meeting with a 1720 02:02:20,320 --> 02:02:24,880 30-minute public input period like i know 1721 02:02:23,280 --> 02:02:29,280 hearing the feedback about how long the meetings are already 1722 02:02:26,400 --> 02:02:32,639 um but i wonder if we could say 10 people can register but keep in mind 1723 02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:36,719 that it's up to the board or the committee to pass a motion to 1724 02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:39,280 extend it director martin i do have you on the list 1725 02:02:37,520 --> 02:02:42,320 i was just trying to clarify the question through to staff 1726 02:02:45,119 --> 02:02:52,000 so as the person who facilitates the meetings 1727 02:02:48,639 --> 02:02:56,000 um and knowing that the number of sound checks 1728 02:02:55,119 --> 02:03:00,719 that we go through for applicants at electoral area 1729 02:02:58,000 --> 02:03:04,800 services at the beginning of the meeting i would not have the opportunity to do 1730 02:03:02,560 --> 02:03:07,760 that with submissions for public input period so anyone who had technical 1731 02:03:06,800 --> 02:03:11,760 issues we wouldn't be able to address them like 1732 02:03:10,080 --> 02:03:16,239 the greater the volume the greater the challenges for managing 1733 02:03:13,599 --> 02:03:18,719 those sorts of issues 1734 02:03:22,400 --> 02:03:29,840 okay follow-up director nicholson 1735 02:03:30,000 --> 02:03:37,760 so i i understand that you ms lego could manage five but not necessarily ten 1736 02:03:36,159 --> 02:03:43,840 easily so um maybe we need to change our policy if 1737 02:03:40,560 --> 02:03:43,840 it will not work for 10 people 1738 02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:48,320 i think our policy that's recommended is five 1739 02:03:48,639 --> 02:03:59,280 well the uh the actual policy on the on the uh about public input period 1740 02:03:56,159 --> 02:04:04,960 has it that the board can uh decide to extend it right yeah i was thinking more 1741 02:04:02,000 --> 02:04:09,520 about time periods but um ms lego i feel like this might be a 1742 02:04:07,599 --> 02:04:13,199 referral back to staff again by the way the discussion is forming or we could 1743 02:04:11,199 --> 02:04:17,360 possibly adopt these motions and continue to discuss other 1744 02:04:15,440 --> 02:04:22,239 alternatives because i feel like i like i said we do we have had long 1745 02:04:20,239 --> 02:04:26,239 discussions about this before but i i appreciate that we're trying to 1746 02:04:23,679 --> 02:04:31,679 balance technical challenges um i don't know if staff ms lego if you 1747 02:04:29,360 --> 02:04:34,960 have any ideas around what we might be able to do so i also 1748 02:04:34,239 --> 02:04:38,159 see this as an interim step this isn't necessarily a 1749 02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:42,239 long-term policy this is something we're doing well um 1750 02:04:40,560 --> 02:04:45,520 you know we're in this current situation with kovid where we're not even allowed 1751 02:04:44,079 --> 02:04:50,639 to bring public into the into the boardroom for a meeting to 1752 02:04:48,719 --> 02:04:54,400 you know help those folks who don't have internet access and might have something 1753 02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:58,000 to say so i see this as an interim step and 1754 02:04:56,719 --> 02:05:04,719 perhaps it's an option to test the waters and reevaluate 1755 02:05:01,599 --> 02:05:04,719 after we try this 1756 02:05:04,960 --> 02:05:12,800 thank you um go ahead director nicholson you still have the floor 1757 02:05:11,119 --> 02:05:17,920 no i don't think i have anything to add thank you okay i'll go to director 1758 02:05:15,040 --> 02:05:17,920 martman next 1759 02:05:19,360 --> 02:05:26,159 and thank you chair and just to follow up on this discussion then 1760 02:05:23,760 --> 02:05:30,719 um if you go to the guidance document that was provided 1761 02:05:27,520 --> 02:05:33,440 under best efforts bullet 5 it talks about adjusting agenda and 1762 02:05:32,079 --> 02:05:37,199 meeting schedules so that matters that are likely to be controversial 1763 02:05:35,199 --> 02:05:40,000 or attract high public interest or the subject of a separate meeting 1764 02:05:38,800 --> 02:05:42,880 so i'm wondering if we're trying to make everything fit into one standard type of 1765 02:05:42,079 --> 02:05:46,400 meeting rather than taking the ones that are of 1766 02:05:45,040 --> 02:05:50,000 controversial issue and make them separate have a separate 1767 02:05:48,079 --> 02:05:53,760 set of rules maybe 10 people just so that you know then staff can 1768 02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:57,440 know okay this is the parameters and let's manage it that way 1769 02:05:55,920 --> 02:06:00,880 yeah that's a good point like a special regional services committee on parkland 1770 02:05:59,280 --> 02:06:04,159 acquisition it came from your mouth you're brilliant 1771 02:06:03,840 --> 02:06:08,960 so i i that's that's a good solution uh 1772 02:06:06,800 --> 02:06:12,480 keep coming to the table with good ideas um but i wonder if that's you know 1773 02:06:10,880 --> 02:06:17,119 something we can definitely consider about um specific heavy items or that if 1774 02:06:15,280 --> 02:06:20,560 we kind of flag an item as an important item that would be scheduled 1775 02:06:19,040 --> 02:06:23,760 as a separate meeting and and maybe we can talk about a policy for 1776 02:06:22,560 --> 02:06:27,520 those special uh occasion meetings where we have a 1777 02:06:26,320 --> 02:06:33,280 little bit more uh broader rules for public input 1778 02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:36,320 um so we'll take that as under advisement and we'll go back through the 1779 02:06:34,880 --> 02:06:39,840 speakers list and then uh maybe we'll come with a subsequent 1780 02:06:38,400 --> 02:06:43,760 resolution to recommend that staff come up with 1781 02:06:41,360 --> 02:06:48,000 another uh specific policy around special meeting agendas 1782 02:06:45,520 --> 02:06:59,840 um which might be a good idea i i like feeling like we're closer to a solution 1783 02:06:50,320 --> 02:06:59,840 director martian and smith 1784 02:07:00,320 --> 02:07:02,639 um 1785 02:07:04,480 --> 02:07:11,280 well it's it's challenging for me to uh say what i'd 1786 02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:16,079 i'd like to see because i hear miss lego say it will be a problem for her 1787 02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:19,760 and i certainly don't want to make that happen 1788 02:07:17,440 --> 02:07:23,840 but i expect from the number of phone calls 1789 02:07:20,639 --> 02:07:27,760 and emails i've been getting the way the board's been jumping all over the place 1790 02:07:25,679 --> 02:07:32,239 on parkland acquisition fund that when it comes to that board meaning 1791 02:07:30,320 --> 02:07:37,440 either there's going to be we didn't have this at that time 1792 02:07:35,280 --> 02:07:44,159 but with word gets out that we have this i would suspect there's going to be 1793 02:07:40,000 --> 02:07:48,000 people calling and and trying to zoom in however you do that as well as 1794 02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:53,360 perhaps writing and um you know given that that 1795 02:07:51,280 --> 02:07:58,400 was a people's uh choice by 82 percent i really do 1796 02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:02,159 think we need to hear um how they're feeling about it now of 1797 02:08:01,440 --> 02:08:06,159 course that wouldn't necessarily be a select 1798 02:08:04,079 --> 02:08:09,920 sample so i'm not sure if i really have anything constructive 1799 02:08:08,079 --> 02:08:16,159 to um to add at this time so i think i'll just 1800 02:08:13,360 --> 02:08:16,159 stop thank you 1801 02:08:16,880 --> 02:08:23,360 uh thank you i'll go back next to director smith 1802 02:08:20,800 --> 02:08:27,599 uh thank you one of the things that i think about 1803 02:08:24,079 --> 02:08:33,440 is on our agendas we have many items and if uh people 1804 02:08:30,960 --> 02:08:37,280 can sort of jump in because they only have 1805 02:08:34,000 --> 02:08:40,639 they're very focused on uh specific and then we have time slots like how do 1806 02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:45,040 we decide is is it one if it's one item on the 1807 02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:48,159 agenda and then there's something else on the 1808 02:08:46,719 --> 02:08:52,880 agenda is it read one for one item on the agenda one 1809 02:08:50,880 --> 02:08:57,040 for the next item on the agenda and the next and the 1810 02:08:54,000 --> 02:08:59,920 agenda or do we just pack all of it to the front for just one item on the 1811 02:08:58,960 --> 02:09:04,800 agenda so then we're not actually hearing from 1812 02:09:02,639 --> 02:09:08,560 the community we're hearing just about one item 1813 02:09:06,000 --> 02:09:12,719 within a time frame so i think there's some logistics need to be 1814 02:09:10,239 --> 02:09:17,040 sort of worked out on how how we work through that 1815 02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:21,040 and and that's just something i think about is something that might be really 1816 02:09:19,360 --> 02:09:26,880 small on the agenda may have a very important 1817 02:09:24,079 --> 02:09:30,159 input from someone in the community that we 1818 02:09:27,520 --> 02:09:34,880 need to hear and i think that's important 1819 02:09:31,679 --> 02:09:39,040 thank you thank you very much and i do recall a situation that we 1820 02:09:36,560 --> 02:09:42,719 ran into that recently where we had a significant amount of input but it was 1821 02:09:40,639 --> 02:09:46,719 on varied items and some of the items input was harder to get to i think in 1822 02:09:45,040 --> 02:09:49,520 that case we extended it so that we could hear it all but that is a good 1823 02:09:48,320 --> 02:09:54,159 point that uh that we may miss items on other or miss 1824 02:09:52,239 --> 02:09:59,440 input on other items if we don't get through it all um so i don't know if 1825 02:09:57,119 --> 02:10:02,480 staff maybe think on that for a moment other other suggestions other than 1826 02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:06,960 extending the time period uh i think i saw 1827 02:10:04,159 --> 02:10:06,960 director duncan 1828 02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:12,840 thank you mr chair just because i haven't been here all the time 1829 02:10:11,040 --> 02:10:19,440 and i'm curious in the last three meetings how many requests did you get 1830 02:10:15,599 --> 02:10:23,280 like like today's it was one one request i'm just curious as to like are you 1831 02:10:21,280 --> 02:10:26,400 getting 20 every meeting if you're not getting 20 then maybe you 1832 02:10:25,440 --> 02:10:32,079 should pass this and try it for six months 1833 02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:35,920 thank you director duncan i'll go to director morrison next 1834 02:10:33,840 --> 02:10:38,960 um and then director wilson and then maybe we can call the question on this 1835 02:10:37,360 --> 02:10:44,159 one or an amendment will be coming forward 1836 02:10:41,119 --> 02:10:48,239 so i i don't want to um you know get into a lengthy discussion 1837 02:10:46,079 --> 02:10:51,040 and debate about this but you know i'm harkening back to some of the first 1838 02:10:49,679 --> 02:10:53,760 comments that were made around this discussion is 1839 02:10:52,079 --> 02:10:58,880 what is our purpose what are we trying to achieve and i too 1840 02:10:55,679 --> 02:11:02,880 like the chairs mentioned uh i generally read my agendas on the weekend 1841 02:11:01,360 --> 02:11:07,119 i i see clarification from staff on monday 1842 02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:10,159 and tuesday if there's been emails that have been sent 1843 02:11:08,159 --> 02:11:13,520 around by people that want to provide input to uh 1844 02:11:11,440 --> 02:11:18,719 to myself and the the other committee members or board members i 1845 02:11:15,280 --> 02:11:24,000 read those over i review the the agendas and and that's my my way of preparing so 1846 02:11:23,440 --> 02:11:28,960 that i can i can give thoughtful consideration of 1847 02:11:26,960 --> 02:11:34,159 the input that's provided what i'm not understanding is this idea 1848 02:11:32,159 --> 02:11:39,599 that we're we're now getting requests or we have been getting requests 1849 02:11:35,840 --> 02:11:44,800 where the email is being sent forward to to committee or board members and the 1850 02:11:42,560 --> 02:11:49,520 person is requesting that it be read out at the meeting as well 1851 02:11:46,639 --> 02:11:53,040 so are are we going to be begin to get people 1852 02:11:50,239 --> 02:11:57,199 sending us an email so that we can consider it in advance 1853 02:11:54,400 --> 02:12:01,840 and then be in addition asking that they be able to 1854 02:11:58,400 --> 02:12:08,000 avail themselves of of the ability to live live address us as well 1855 02:12:05,360 --> 02:12:11,920 and and you know i just i just go back to the thought that 1856 02:12:09,360 --> 02:12:15,840 we're in the middle of a pandemic and the province has said 1857 02:12:13,440 --> 02:12:18,239 do the best you can to accommodate people keep open and transparent 1858 02:12:17,440 --> 02:12:21,520 meetings and and i think what director martin 1859 02:12:20,480 --> 02:12:25,760 brought up about you got something contentious go to a 1860 02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:30,719 whole other separate meeting but we're you know i'll i'll i'll say again 1861 02:12:28,560 --> 02:12:35,840 the best question that i ever had was as chair at the end of a meeting was 1862 02:12:33,119 --> 02:12:38,880 someone who had an application before us and this woman got up at the end of the 1863 02:12:37,760 --> 02:12:42,639 meeting and she says well i understand you're moving this 1864 02:12:40,880 --> 02:12:46,320 forward what happens next it was a brilliant question she 1865 02:12:45,040 --> 02:12:48,560 didn't know what was going to happen next 1866 02:12:47,040 --> 02:12:54,079 and that was the type of question i think that was initially envisioned 1867 02:12:50,639 --> 02:12:57,760 when question period came up so i i put that out there 1868 02:12:54,960 --> 02:13:00,239 do we really need you know the input provided from us two and three different 1869 02:12:59,760 --> 02:13:03,840 ways for us to get it 1870 02:13:05,599 --> 02:13:11,360 thank you that's a good point was that rhetorical or should i go to staff for 1871 02:13:09,280 --> 02:13:16,000 an answer i think i think you know we are running 1872 02:13:13,679 --> 02:13:19,679 into these covid related issues and like you said 1873 02:13:16,800 --> 02:13:22,960 usually it wouldn't be uh um you know someone would attend the meeting and 1874 02:13:21,280 --> 02:13:26,320 stand up to the podium and ask the question 1875 02:13:23,440 --> 02:13:28,560 right so um i i can put that through for anybody who wants to comment i just feel 1876 02:13:28,000 --> 02:13:32,320 like i'm in the spin cycle here going around the 1877 02:13:30,480 --> 02:13:35,599 horn again and again i have directors wilson and then acton i 1878 02:13:34,719 --> 02:13:39,760 believe and anybody else i've missed and marsh 1879 02:13:40,159 --> 02:13:45,599 sorry i i may have to uh just seed the chair for a moment i really have to go 1880 02:13:44,480 --> 02:13:49,280 to the washroom but i'll try and get through this item 1881 02:13:47,520 --> 02:13:51,920 director wilson and then acton and then marsh 1882 02:13:50,480 --> 02:13:54,320 i thought i was going to be able to close on that one but no not to be never 1883 02:13:53,840 --> 02:13:59,679 mind um regarding what um alternate director 1884 02:13:58,079 --> 02:14:02,639 duncan said just now it's a good point that he's brought up there 1885 02:14:00,880 --> 02:14:05,599 the number of things that we've had and and really it depends on how contentious 1886 02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:08,800 the uh the the problems seem to be i mean we 1887 02:14:07,599 --> 02:14:13,920 know that we've seen people queuing up outside the uh the boardroom 1888 02:14:11,920 --> 02:14:17,599 doors to uh to have their chance at public input and other times it's the 1889 02:14:15,679 --> 02:14:22,159 same people over and over again so really there's there's no real answer to 1890 02:14:20,159 --> 02:14:25,040 the question of do we have three or four or 20 kind of thing 1891 02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:32,079 it's it purely depends on the circumstances and i hope that 1892 02:14:27,599 --> 02:14:37,679 and i'm sure he appreciates that as well thank you director acton thank you 1893 02:14:35,280 --> 02:14:40,480 um i'm going to vote against this or i would like to see it deferred back to 1894 02:14:39,440 --> 02:14:46,480 staff because the the the um 1895 02:14:44,239 --> 02:14:50,000 technology side of it for staff is a real issue like we 1896 02:14:47,679 --> 02:14:53,520 we talk about being fiscally responsible and we don't even know what kind of 1897 02:14:51,440 --> 02:15:00,000 workload we're adding here uh and it's we 1898 02:14:57,199 --> 02:15:03,119 it's so so challenging when we have guests 1899 02:15:00,800 --> 02:15:06,079 actually like during electoral area services 1900 02:15:04,159 --> 02:15:11,119 and we're already staring at this screen so screen so much 1901 02:15:07,599 --> 02:15:15,199 i added up 10 minutes every meeting uh for the next year at the for question 1902 02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:20,880 period just that delay is a whole is 24 hours of our lives so 1903 02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:23,760 for an electoral area director so it's kind of like 1904 02:15:22,320 --> 02:15:27,199 i would like to see some of this electronic stuff reduced 1905 02:15:25,440 --> 02:15:29,760 it would improve our mood it would improve all kinds of things our decision 1906 02:15:29,119 --> 02:15:33,119 making but because when we start the meeting 1907 02:15:31,360 --> 02:15:37,599 off and it's and we're already completely drained 1908 02:15:34,560 --> 02:15:42,880 by staring at the screen and and and just listening i think if if people 1909 02:15:40,719 --> 02:15:48,000 have access to electronic to be uh here and and 1910 02:15:46,079 --> 02:15:50,880 that's assuming there's no struggles with it 1911 02:15:49,520 --> 02:15:54,480 then what if they didn't get to give their input because they couldn't get on 1912 02:15:52,560 --> 02:15:57,679 et cetera et cetera but if they have that technology they easily have an 1913 02:15:56,320 --> 02:16:01,760 email and it would i would feel so much more comfortable 1914 02:15:59,360 --> 02:16:05,440 getting an email we can i can verify some of the facts because sometimes it's 1915 02:16:04,000 --> 02:16:11,520 not always factual not to to to disrespect input but 1916 02:16:09,040 --> 02:16:14,560 sometimes they're they're not everything has been considered so 1917 02:16:12,719 --> 02:16:18,400 at least we can see their point of view and have it ahead of time 1918 02:16:16,159 --> 02:16:21,360 and so i would like to just leave it as email we're allowing the public to give 1919 02:16:20,400 --> 02:16:25,040 their input and and they can watch the videos it's 1920 02:16:23,360 --> 02:16:28,000 very transparent we're all very accessible 1921 02:16:25,920 --> 02:16:32,000 any one of us can pick up our phone they can call us or 1922 02:16:28,960 --> 02:16:36,000 or whatever so anyway that's my thing i hope i didn't repeat myself too 1923 02:16:33,920 --> 02:16:39,679 many times chair stone and thank you nope that was that was 1924 02:16:38,800 --> 02:16:42,639 good uh director marsh 1925 02:16:44,160 --> 02:16:50,960 yeah i i kind of liked uh mr carruther's idea 1926 02:16:47,760 --> 02:16:56,479 that the chairs uh speak about it um i think that 1927 02:16:54,160 --> 02:17:02,000 i've made my preference known over the years but just to reiterate quickly 1928 02:16:59,359 --> 02:17:04,880 i think that if people want to take time out of their lives 1929 02:17:05,439 --> 02:17:13,280 to give input to their local government or any level of 1930 02:17:11,040 --> 02:17:17,519 government that there should be a way for them to do it 1931 02:17:14,319 --> 02:17:23,519 and um if if it's impossible to if it's too 1932 02:17:20,880 --> 02:17:28,800 onerous to do it this way maybe we do need to go back to emails 1933 02:17:25,760 --> 02:17:33,120 but i would remind you that there are municipal directors who may have 1934 02:17:30,479 --> 02:17:37,519 meetings the night before a meeting here or meetings a whole day 1935 02:17:35,359 --> 02:17:41,120 before a meeting here so i think if you're going to do it that 1936 02:17:38,880 --> 02:17:45,519 way by email in order for i want to read the input i'd like to 1937 02:17:43,280 --> 02:17:50,800 have it a little bit even earlier then because i can't always 1938 02:17:49,040 --> 02:17:55,760 read all the agendas for everything i have to do that week and 1939 02:17:52,160 --> 02:17:59,519 a bunch of public input but i don't understand technology 1940 02:17:57,120 --> 02:18:02,080 and i agree with uh director acton that if it's going to be onerous and 1941 02:18:01,120 --> 02:18:09,280 time-consuming and stressful uh there is that piece 1942 02:18:05,599 --> 02:18:13,679 too so it i think i trust that staff and the chairs can come up with 1943 02:18:12,399 --> 02:18:19,120 something that will give the public the message 1944 02:18:16,240 --> 02:18:26,319 that we care about what they have to say and i understand people get irritated 1945 02:18:22,880 --> 02:18:29,920 with the same people over and over again but if we stopped doing this as i said 1946 02:18:29,200 --> 02:18:35,040 earlier um we might miss something really really 1947 02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:39,200 important so i don't think you it's kind of like when you're in school 1948 02:18:36,960 --> 02:18:42,880 and the two people who are disrupting everything 1949 02:18:40,719 --> 02:18:47,439 change all the rules and and it just doesn't seem just to me 1950 02:18:44,719 --> 02:18:51,280 so i but i don't right now having heard everything 1951 02:18:48,319 --> 02:18:53,599 particularly from the staff i don't i feel like 1952 02:18:51,840 --> 02:18:58,639 i agree with director act and i think we should have a look at it 1953 02:18:55,679 --> 02:19:00,880 after they've had a thought about it and um 1954 02:19:01,120 --> 02:19:04,080 that's all i have to say 1955 02:19:04,319 --> 02:19:08,880 thank you um did staff want to maybe just comment i i recognize that what's 1956 02:19:08,240 --> 02:19:12,800 on the floor is the staff recommendation i just want 1957 02:19:11,040 --> 02:19:16,880 to get clarity from staff if you're comfortable with this level 1958 02:19:14,479 --> 02:19:21,840 at this point um or if you're more speaking towards the you know 1959 02:19:18,479 --> 02:19:21,840 expanding it further 1960 02:19:24,000 --> 02:19:29,200 sorry i'm not sure i understand your question sorry there was 1961 02:19:27,599 --> 02:19:31,760 i i was just the the staff recommendations come forward it's been 1962 02:19:30,639 --> 02:19:35,920 moved and seconded but there was some desire based on 1963 02:19:33,760 --> 02:19:39,599 staff's comments that we wouldn't adopt this 1964 02:19:36,479 --> 02:19:42,800 but we would re go i guess discuss this further 1965 02:19:40,319 --> 02:19:46,719 are you are you okay with this baseline of five people to start out with 1966 02:19:44,639 --> 02:19:52,319 it from the technology perspective or is it an untenable administrative burden 1967 02:19:52,640 --> 02:19:57,920 i think i wouldn't have recommended it if i didn't think i could manage it 1968 02:19:56,000 --> 02:20:01,520 i mean clearly electoral area services is the more difficult meeting to manage 1969 02:19:59,520 --> 02:20:04,240 because of the number of applicants and and such but 1970 02:20:04,560 --> 02:20:12,000 thank you okay any further discussion seeing none i'll call the question this 1971 02:20:10,080 --> 02:20:14,880 is on the motion that's on the floor oh director nicholson 1972 02:20:15,680 --> 02:20:21,120 well could i um amend the emotion so that we do 1973 02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:23,600 a we do review how well things are going in three months 1974 02:20:22,240 --> 02:20:27,200 i i was going to suggest you could either i come right back to you for a 1975 02:20:25,200 --> 02:20:30,800 subsequent motion on the review piece or you could 1976 02:20:28,080 --> 02:20:33,760 okay i'll do that any further discussion or amendments on the motion that's on 1977 02:20:32,399 --> 02:20:37,520 the floor seeing none i'll call the question all 1978 02:20:35,359 --> 02:20:42,840 those in favor and those opposed directors morrison 1979 02:20:41,660 --> 02:20:46,880 [Music] acton 1980 02:20:45,600 --> 02:20:50,560 and i'll come back to you director nicholson for a follow-up motion 1981 02:20:52,160 --> 02:20:58,560 i move that we review [Music] 1982 02:20:55,439 --> 02:21:04,560 whatever this is called um the public input and question period uh 1983 02:21:01,600 --> 02:21:07,200 virtual changes that we've made um in three months 1984 02:21:05,760 --> 02:21:13,840 thank you is there a secondary i'm seconded by director marsh 1985 02:21:08,800 --> 02:21:13,840 discussion on that motion director mark 1986 02:21:17,200 --> 02:21:24,240 so it's been a bit uh confusing day so i just want to clarify that what we 1987 02:21:23,200 --> 02:21:30,960 are we are limited limiting things to five 1988 02:21:28,319 --> 02:21:34,640 unless it's a contentious issue and then we're going to 1989 02:21:32,479 --> 02:21:38,640 either have a special meeting or do something special 1990 02:21:35,600 --> 02:21:42,240 am i correct about that or not that was part of the discussion not part 1991 02:21:40,479 --> 02:21:47,120 of the motion i'd put that through to staff but 1992 02:21:42,960 --> 02:21:50,800 uh i i think go ahead mr crothers yeah that's that's that wasn't part of 1993 02:21:49,359 --> 02:21:57,680 the motion um okay okay majority of our meetings 1994 02:21:54,399 --> 02:22:00,000 are are manageable and uh i think we will 1995 02:21:58,080 --> 02:22:03,600 move forward with this if we appear that we have a highly contentious issue 1996 02:22:01,840 --> 02:22:06,800 uh i would imagine that we'll be having a chat with the chairs 1997 02:22:05,040 --> 02:22:10,560 and discussing a strategy for moving forward in those 1998 02:22:08,319 --> 02:22:13,439 rare occasions thank you that was going to be my add-on that i think the chairs 1999 02:22:12,560 --> 02:22:17,600 heard that uh pretty clearly and we can uh discuss 2000 02:22:16,000 --> 02:22:20,080 at a gender review if we feel there's an item that should be separated out and we 2001 02:22:19,600 --> 02:22:23,760 could put that on a special meeting agenda 2002 02:22:21,760 --> 02:22:27,920 perhaps mr chair any chance of a break please 2003 02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:30,800 yeah as soon as we get through this item i have uh 2004 02:22:28,960 --> 02:22:34,319 i believe unless director marsh has a follow-up for now i'll go to director 2005 02:22:34,840 --> 02:22:39,359 morris thank you mr chair you know i arbitrary 2006 02:22:38,640 --> 02:22:43,760 deadlines drive me crazy can't we make a review 2007 02:22:42,240 --> 02:22:46,080 upon the change of the public health orders 2008 02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:53,600 makes more sense to me i appreciate that i believe we have a motion that's been 2009 02:22:51,680 --> 02:22:58,720 moved and seconded is that an amendment that you're proposing 2010 02:22:55,520 --> 02:23:02,479 okay yes all right so the amendment would be to not be three months but when 2011 02:23:00,560 --> 02:23:07,920 the public health orders are amended okay so do we have a second 2012 02:23:05,439 --> 02:23:12,000 order on that looking for a seconder on the amendment 2013 02:23:09,920 --> 02:23:16,160 oh director yanni dinardo seconding on the amendment on discussion on the 2014 02:23:13,520 --> 02:23:19,680 amendment director sebring yeah i've been fairly quiet on this but 2015 02:23:18,880 --> 02:23:22,800 um um i i wouldn't support the amendment 2016 02:23:22,080 --> 02:23:27,040 because i think the the object of the motion 2017 02:23:24,640 --> 02:23:32,000 here is to review how it's going and to say well we're just going to 2018 02:23:30,080 --> 02:23:34,560 review this one when the pandemic is done well then we don't need to review 2019 02:23:33,760 --> 02:23:37,520 it because we're back to our face-to-face meeting so 2020 02:23:36,080 --> 02:23:41,439 this amendment makes no sense to me let's have a look at this 2021 02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:45,280 sorry for clarity i believe the motion was when public horse orders are amended 2022 02:23:43,520 --> 02:23:49,920 which could be next week by the sounds of it but my my 2023 02:23:48,160 --> 02:23:53,760 argument was actually the opposite way was that we could have the 2024 02:23:51,359 --> 02:23:58,479 public health orders be amended five times between now and summer depending 2025 02:23:55,920 --> 02:24:01,600 on how things go so i think that's the intention of the 2026 02:23:59,920 --> 02:24:04,800 motion though is when public health orders are amended 2027 02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:10,080 okay so that is the intention of the amendment to the amendment 2028 02:24:06,240 --> 02:24:15,920 any other speakers seeing none i'll call the question on the amendment 2029 02:24:11,359 --> 02:24:19,439 all those in favor any opposed uh director sebring nicholson martman 2030 02:24:18,720 --> 02:24:25,840 salmon marsh smith mcgonagall 2031 02:24:22,800 --> 02:24:29,920 duncan opposed i'll make sure ms lagos got those names 2032 02:24:28,479 --> 02:24:34,000 before we move on motions defeated our amendment is 2033 02:24:32,479 --> 02:24:38,640 defeated so we're back to the main motion which is the three-month 2034 02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:43,040 review of the policy change any further discussion on the emotion 2035 02:24:41,520 --> 02:24:50,720 seeing none i'll call the question all those in favor and those opposed 2036 02:24:46,560 --> 02:24:56,080 directors martin kuhn opposed seeing no others the motion carries you 2037 02:24:53,760 --> 02:24:59,840 got those ms lego all right so we will take a 10 minute 2038 02:24:57,840 --> 02:25:02,960 break and we'll be back at 4 15 p.m miss lagos sorry i was just 2039 02:25:02,000 --> 02:25:07,359 wondering if you'll be taking another recess after the bylaws 2040 02:25:05,120 --> 02:25:13,840 before question period uh i believe we will uh as per 2041 02:25:10,960 --> 02:25:20,160 our policy up until the end of this meeting 2042 02:25:16,160 --> 02:25:20,160 thank you yeah so maybe we should wait 2043 02:25:20,640 --> 02:25:27,680 no sorry i definitely need to go to the washroom so i'm taking a break 2044 02:25:25,280 --> 02:25:31,120 um if you all get back quickly turn your cameras on if you're back within five 2045 02:25:29,600 --> 02:25:34,240 minutes i'll start the meeting again sorry i i need to start 2046 02:25:32,319 --> 02:25:40,479 or mr chair couldn't the vice chair just chair while you go to the washroom 2047 02:25:38,800 --> 02:25:53,840 by the time you ask the question most people had already left already yeah 2048 02:25:58,640 --> 02:26:05,280 camera's live thank you apologies for the uh 2049 02:26:02,720 --> 02:26:09,120 the break before uh pending break i believe we are 2050 02:26:06,080 --> 02:26:13,359 on uh item r sr4 ms lago that's correct staff report 2051 02:26:12,399 --> 02:26:17,040 from finance on spring security issuing bylaw for 2052 02:26:14,960 --> 02:26:22,800 information thank you pretty uh standard issue any questions 2053 02:26:19,920 --> 02:26:22,800 from the directors 2054 02:26:23,600 --> 02:26:29,520 thank you miss soldera for waiting for this moment and i do not see any 2055 02:26:27,439 --> 02:26:34,240 questions from the directors so uh we will then move on and thank you 2056 02:26:31,439 --> 02:26:41,200 for attending is lego onto bylaws item b1 cvrd bylaw 2057 02:26:38,800 --> 02:26:47,120 4344 saltier water system service amendment bylaw 2020 for adoption 2058 02:26:44,479 --> 02:26:50,960 thank you moved by director smith seconded by director mcgonagall 2059 02:26:48,800 --> 02:26:55,600 any discussion seeing none all those in favor 2060 02:26:52,160 --> 02:27:01,520 any opposed not opposed motion carries big step uh moving on ms lego 2061 02:26:58,720 --> 02:27:03,600 cbrd bylaw 4351 couch and base sewer system 2062 02:27:02,000 --> 02:27:08,479 service amendment requisition limit increase bylaw 2020 for adoption 2063 02:27:06,160 --> 02:27:12,800 moved by director yanni dinardo seconded by 2064 02:27:09,760 --> 02:27:19,520 director wilson any discussion seen none all those in favor 2065 02:27:14,880 --> 02:27:24,800 and opposed an unopposed motion carries item b3 cvrd bylaw 4354 cobble hill 2066 02:27:23,359 --> 02:27:28,080 village sewer system management amendment bylaw for first second and 2067 02:27:26,399 --> 02:27:32,240 third readings moved by director wilson seconded by 2068 02:27:30,240 --> 02:27:35,359 director smith any discussion seeing none all those in 2069 02:27:34,319 --> 02:27:42,319 favor any opposed unopposed motion carries 2070 02:27:39,359 --> 02:27:44,000 this will go and bylaw 4354 cobble hill village sewer system management 2071 02:27:43,600 --> 02:27:49,120 amendment by law 2021 for adoption moved by 2072 02:27:47,120 --> 02:27:53,920 director wilson seconded by director yanni dinardo any discussions seeing 2073 02:27:51,840 --> 02:28:00,160 none all those in favor any opposed unopposed motion carries 2074 02:27:56,720 --> 02:28:04,160 miss lego cvrd bylaw 4361 regional district delegation bylaw 2021 2075 02:28:02,319 --> 02:28:07,920 for adoption moved by director acton seconded by 2076 02:28:05,920 --> 02:28:12,399 director martin oh sorry moved by director martin seconded 2077 02:28:10,000 --> 02:28:16,960 by director we have a sector on that we don't okay 2078 02:28:14,960 --> 02:28:22,160 oh sorry seconded by director wilson i think we have speakers to this 2079 02:28:18,399 --> 02:28:22,160 director acton and then salmon 2080 02:28:23,520 --> 02:28:31,120 yeah i i would like some clarity on this i this is um pretty interesting bylaw 2081 02:28:30,640 --> 02:28:37,359 that somehow i do not remember 2082 02:28:35,040 --> 02:28:41,120 all of the details around this the report 2083 02:28:38,160 --> 02:28:47,200 or what exactly what what are we delegated what power 2084 02:28:42,640 --> 02:28:47,200 to who and what some examples please 2085 02:28:47,439 --> 02:28:52,319 uh ms lego or mr carruthers do you want to speak to it i believe we had a report 2086 02:28:51,280 --> 02:28:58,479 not that long ago but maybe you can remind us 2087 02:28:55,680 --> 02:29:02,240 there's also a report mr chair attached to the item 2088 02:29:00,640 --> 02:29:05,439 so this originally went to the corporate services meeting 2089 02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:09,600 and received three readings at the last board meeting it's 2090 02:29:07,359 --> 02:29:12,720 formalizing our delegation of authority for expenditures that are currently 2091 02:29:11,439 --> 02:29:18,960 contained in our procurement policy uh it itemizes some 2092 02:29:16,479 --> 02:29:22,000 areas around signing authority i'm not sure if there's specific 2093 02:29:20,319 --> 02:29:24,880 questions that would be better to address that way 2094 02:29:23,280 --> 02:29:27,920 thank you and i believe there was some issues with us having a policy not an 2095 02:29:26,720 --> 02:29:32,800 appropriate bylaw and this is why the bylaw was brought 2096 02:29:29,520 --> 02:29:36,080 forward follow-up director acton yeah so i guess i'd like some examples 2097 02:29:34,800 --> 02:29:40,240 if there's anything that would have normally come to the board but now it's 2098 02:29:38,160 --> 02:29:44,000 not uh go ahead through to staff 2099 02:29:45,520 --> 02:29:52,160 yeah i don't i don't believe there's anything that has changed 2100 02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:55,680 the the if you're referring to land use type decisions those fall under 2101 02:29:53,920 --> 02:30:04,560 a different bylaw these are more administrative uh delegations around 2102 02:29:58,319 --> 02:30:07,840 signing and purchasing also you a lot of purchases do come through 2103 02:30:06,800 --> 02:30:14,479 us so i guess give me an example of of 2104 02:30:11,840 --> 02:30:14,479 some of 2105 02:30:15,439 --> 02:30:21,439 has without this agreement has it prevented 2106 02:30:19,359 --> 02:30:25,600 is it for yourself to have delegation and for the procurement officer to have 2107 02:30:23,280 --> 02:30:29,920 the delegation um through the chair we've always had 2108 02:30:27,200 --> 02:30:34,000 that delegation uh our purchasing policy has always delegated authority very few 2109 02:30:32,080 --> 02:30:37,920 of our purchases come to the board uh once the budget is approved we have a 2110 02:30:36,080 --> 02:30:41,359 procedure and process in place for for approving and signing off on 2111 02:30:39,600 --> 02:30:47,200 expenditures i don't know if you have anything else to add to 2112 02:30:43,359 --> 02:30:53,280 ms lago this is a very procedural uh bylaw um and it basically 2113 02:30:50,240 --> 02:30:56,960 addresses it updates uh our existing bylaw 2114 02:30:54,240 --> 02:31:00,160 and and takes some things out of policy and puts them in 2115 02:30:57,760 --> 02:31:05,680 in bylaw that were previously in policy but go ahead mrs loco 2116 02:31:02,560 --> 02:31:11,359 yeah i agree with the cio and and it is a requirement that these um 2117 02:31:09,280 --> 02:31:16,000 delegation of authority for expenditures be contained in a bylaw 2118 02:31:14,399 --> 02:31:20,160 thank you that was my recollection was that we were doing it by policy and it 2119 02:31:17,920 --> 02:31:24,000 rightly needed to be done by bylaw under the that it wasn't a change in the 2120 02:31:21,600 --> 02:31:28,160 policy but actually just putting it into an appropriate bylaw but that would be 2121 02:31:26,800 --> 02:31:31,439 my recollection of the the report that came forward previously 2122 02:31:31,040 --> 02:31:35,520 uh any further questions for ms lego from 2123 02:31:34,000 --> 02:31:40,800 director acton and then director salmon's next 2124 02:31:37,280 --> 02:31:44,640 director salmon thank you yeah i was sort of in the same vein i 2125 02:31:42,319 --> 02:31:46,720 was just uh i wasn't sure how big a change this really was although it does 2126 02:31:46,160 --> 02:31:50,160 seem like something that could come back to haunt 2127 02:31:48,880 --> 02:31:53,760 us in future if we didn't really go over and i i remember 2128 02:31:53,040 --> 02:31:57,600 from i believe that uh director sieben said 2129 02:31:55,600 --> 02:32:01,920 they had one north couch i'm surprised we did not so 2130 02:31:59,280 --> 02:32:06,960 um but for example signing authority i see uh 2131 02:32:04,319 --> 02:32:11,920 now we're delegating the say collective agreements and severance agreements 2132 02:32:09,359 --> 02:32:15,680 although i don't remember those coming specifically to the board 2133 02:32:13,520 --> 02:32:20,080 anyway for example severance agreement i don't think i've ever seen one so no 2134 02:32:17,600 --> 02:32:24,000 no because they were part of the policy it's just that now they're included in 2135 02:32:21,520 --> 02:32:29,040 the bylaw as legislative appropriate legislatively appropriate so i think 2136 02:32:27,200 --> 02:32:34,000 that was why it wasn't in there before but 2137 02:32:30,560 --> 02:32:37,840 and then let's go ahead mr well mr chair yeah we went through this 2138 02:32:36,160 --> 02:32:40,880 bylaw in quite a bit of detail when we when we brought it forward for the for 2139 02:32:39,359 --> 02:32:44,080 the committee to consider um when you're talking about things like 2140 02:32:42,960 --> 02:32:47,439 collective agreements obviously the board approves the 2141 02:32:45,840 --> 02:32:53,680 ratification of a of a negotiation with our union the 2142 02:32:50,960 --> 02:32:56,640 delegation bylaw simply authorizes staff to sign 2143 02:32:54,720 --> 02:33:00,000 the finished agreement on behalf of the cvrd 2144 02:32:58,240 --> 02:33:04,000 those are the types of matters that we're talking about here 2145 02:33:01,280 --> 02:33:08,800 so there is nothing new uh it is it is basically an updating of our delegation 2146 02:33:06,080 --> 02:33:13,920 bylaw which we're required to have we've simply reviewed it it's been many 2147 02:33:11,520 --> 02:33:17,040 years we've updated the numbers we've moved some items from policy into the 2148 02:33:15,840 --> 02:33:20,720 bylaw but i can assure you that there's 2149 02:33:18,399 --> 02:33:23,920 nothing new or anything that's going to come back to 2150 02:33:21,920 --> 02:33:31,359 bite the board as a result of this uh bylaw okay just one follow-up 2151 02:33:28,479 --> 02:33:34,720 go ahead so from that i understand so for example we take 2152 02:33:32,399 --> 02:33:37,680 expenditure limits for goods and services so 2153 02:33:36,399 --> 02:33:40,479 what you're saying is we already had a policy that said anything over a hundred 2154 02:33:39,760 --> 02:33:44,960 thousand i had to come to the board because 2155 02:33:43,200 --> 02:33:52,640 that's what it's gonna be after after this bylaw no 2156 02:33:49,200 --> 02:33:57,439 ms lego i think you can i don't have a specific sorry to interrupt that 2157 02:33:55,600 --> 02:34:04,160 anything over a hundred thousand dollars rests with the cao yes yeah 2158 02:34:01,760 --> 02:34:07,840 so i i would recommend that if the the committee 2159 02:34:04,880 --> 02:34:11,840 would or the board wants to look at this i know we're here on adoption 2160 02:34:09,520 --> 02:34:14,640 um we did have a staff report i can't remember 2161 02:34:12,800 --> 02:34:18,640 how many meetings ago but i believe it was only maybe 2162 02:34:16,080 --> 02:34:22,880 three meetings ago that staff could bring it back 2163 02:34:19,600 --> 02:34:27,040 um but having gone through it in detail at that time i don't feel the need but 2164 02:34:24,560 --> 02:34:32,080 if directors do they can make a referral back and we could bring that report back 2165 02:34:29,200 --> 02:34:32,080 again to the board 2166 02:34:32,640 --> 02:34:35,760 uh director marsh 2167 02:34:35,840 --> 02:34:44,560 yeah i recalled it that anything up to a hundred thousand dollars 2168 02:34:40,240 --> 02:34:47,280 was um signal by the cio if it is anything 2169 02:34:45,200 --> 02:34:49,760 over a hundred thousand dollars is there a limit 2170 02:34:51,760 --> 02:34:56,560 through to staff there's not currently a limit 2171 02:34:57,040 --> 02:35:03,520 no i think that it would probably be wise to have another look then because 2172 02:35:00,560 --> 02:35:07,280 i mean could it be two million or three million dollars i mean i doubt 2173 02:35:05,200 --> 02:35:12,080 that i know brian would never do that without bringing to the board but 2174 02:35:09,120 --> 02:35:16,560 we're making a bylaw that his successor will be 2175 02:35:13,520 --> 02:35:20,720 um able to utilize so i think it deserves 2176 02:35:18,160 --> 02:35:24,160 uh deeper thought certainly on my part because i misunderstood it and i 2177 02:35:22,240 --> 02:35:27,840 apologize for that i thought it was up to 2178 02:35:29,840 --> 02:35:36,080 sorry director or mr carruthers you're muted so i think you're trying to 2179 02:35:33,920 --> 02:35:40,160 respond but yeah sorry mr chair thank you um this 2180 02:35:38,960 --> 02:35:43,760 delegation bylaw is consistent with what any other local 2181 02:35:42,560 --> 02:35:48,000 government would do in terms of expenditures 2182 02:35:44,880 --> 02:35:51,840 um the board's power essentially is in prescribing the budget and once that 2183 02:35:50,080 --> 02:35:55,840 budget is prescribed we have checks and balances throughout our 2184 02:35:53,359 --> 02:35:59,520 financial system to ensure uh appropriate expenditures through our 2185 02:35:57,840 --> 02:36:04,640 chief financial officer uh signed off by the cao you know 2186 02:36:03,120 --> 02:36:07,920 you're welcome to bring this back for further review i'm i'm just gonna 2187 02:36:06,399 --> 02:36:11,200 suggest to the committee that there's nothing 2188 02:36:08,720 --> 02:36:15,120 unusual about this delegation bylaw it is it is 2189 02:36:12,000 --> 02:36:18,960 fairly standard and uh but by all means if you're 2190 02:36:15,840 --> 02:36:22,000 uncomfortable or want more information you're welcome to bring it back for 2191 02:36:20,080 --> 02:36:26,399 further consideration just a quick follow-up mr chair yeah yeah so 2192 02:36:24,399 --> 02:36:29,680 i think i heard you say mr cruthers you wouldn't be signing anything that 2193 02:36:28,000 --> 02:36:33,600 you hadn't already gotten direction from the board 2194 02:36:30,800 --> 02:36:36,560 to pursue there's nothing that would come from my signature 2195 02:36:34,880 --> 02:36:41,760 that wouldn't have been approved and the chief financial officer ensures that so 2196 02:36:39,280 --> 02:36:44,640 so i've twice misunderstood and i'm fine with it the way it is and i will support 2197 02:36:43,280 --> 02:36:48,319 it thank you i saw mr kieber's hand up and 2198 02:36:46,800 --> 02:36:53,600 i think i have director morrison and director sebring 2199 02:36:50,880 --> 02:36:57,760 thank you mr chair so i just wanted to give the board a little bit of um 2200 02:36:55,359 --> 02:37:01,280 comfort letting you know that no expenditures are incurred 2201 02:36:59,280 --> 02:37:04,240 without the that's not included in the budget already that the board has not 2202 02:37:02,880 --> 02:37:08,479 already improved so as mr crothers mentioned there's 2203 02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:11,760 there's checks and balances in the finance department that prevents 2204 02:37:11,200 --> 02:37:16,160 anything that's not already um approved and the 2205 02:37:14,399 --> 02:37:19,280 ones that do come back to the board are items that have not been included in 2206 02:37:18,399 --> 02:37:23,120 the budget sometimes it's prior to budgets adoption 2207 02:37:21,680 --> 02:37:25,680 or something's happened throughout the year 2208 02:37:23,520 --> 02:37:29,200 and there's been grant funding and there's new expenditures 2209 02:37:26,960 --> 02:37:32,160 those items coming for the board but other than that 2210 02:37:30,000 --> 02:37:36,720 um as long as it's in the budget mr crothers and the staff have authority up 2211 02:37:34,080 --> 02:37:36,720 to their limits 2212 02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:50,960 sorry wrong button director morrison and then director sebring 2213 02:37:47,840 --> 02:37:54,479 so um a quick question given that we've been 2214 02:37:51,439 --> 02:37:58,960 operating under uh policy and the likes to this point is is there is there 2215 02:37:57,040 --> 02:38:03,520 anything that requires that this need to be you know accomplished in 2216 02:38:02,479 --> 02:38:14,000 the next two to four weeks or or is it well let 2217 02:38:06,240 --> 02:38:18,800 me ask that question first we lose director morrison 2218 02:38:17,040 --> 02:38:24,160 sorry i think he cut off at the end i couldn't hear you at the end there 2219 02:38:21,359 --> 02:38:27,840 can you hear me now yeah so mike my question was 2220 02:38:24,960 --> 02:38:33,280 is is this time sensitive i realize it's got for second and third 2221 02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:37,280 um but is could we continue to operate at relatively low risk for a period of 2222 02:38:36,000 --> 02:38:41,840 time where this could be uh reviewed after we've adopted the 2223 02:38:39,520 --> 02:38:45,600 budget 10th through to staff 2224 02:38:46,080 --> 02:38:51,040 i'll answer that um there's nothing urgent no you can't we've been going on 2225 02:38:49,520 --> 02:38:54,399 so long as it is um but it is something that we do need 2226 02:38:52,960 --> 02:38:58,080 to become compliant with and should do eventually um we can wait 2227 02:38:56,560 --> 02:39:01,359 to the adoption of the budget thank you director morrison so i'd be 2228 02:39:00,319 --> 02:39:07,040 i'd move that this item be referred to the next board 2229 02:39:04,960 --> 02:39:11,439 meeting with uh bring back the report following the adoption of the 2021 2230 02:39:09,840 --> 02:39:14,800 budget so we have a second or for that director 2231 02:39:13,200 --> 02:39:18,240 salmon uh direct uh discussion on the motion i 2232 02:39:17,040 --> 02:39:20,479 have dropped do you have a motion on the floor 2233 02:39:21,040 --> 02:39:25,760 it's a referral motion though i believe okay yeah so a referral motion is in 2234 02:39:24,960 --> 02:39:29,680 order um so this is a referral back to staff 2235 02:39:28,319 --> 02:39:34,080 and it'll be brought back uh after the timeline which is after the 2236 02:39:32,399 --> 02:39:37,840 adoption of the budget um so again i had a speaker's list of 2237 02:39:36,560 --> 02:39:40,880 director sebring did you want to speak to this referral 2238 02:39:40,399 --> 02:39:45,520 nope okay and to the referral any director 2239 02:39:43,520 --> 02:39:49,040 marsh yeah i won't be supporting the referral 2240 02:39:47,200 --> 02:39:53,600 because now i have it clear and i'm remembering 2241 02:39:50,399 --> 02:39:58,319 back and i think that it's it's gonna we're gonna do it anyway so 2242 02:39:55,439 --> 02:40:03,200 i'd rather not rehash it again thank you okay so on the referral motion 2243 02:40:01,359 --> 02:40:09,040 seeing no further discussion i'll call the question all those in favor 2244 02:40:05,680 --> 02:40:16,319 and opposed uh directors nicholson sebring 2245 02:40:12,720 --> 02:40:23,520 yanni dinardo marsh smith mcgonagall and duncan and stone opposed 2246 02:40:20,560 --> 02:40:26,800 i believe the referral fails but miss lego if you've got that 2247 02:40:28,479 --> 02:40:35,520 so can i go back to moving into the community wait for miss 2248 02:40:31,920 --> 02:40:40,240 miss lego to respond i believe i recorded eight names uh 2249 02:40:37,520 --> 02:40:46,960 nicholson c rinpoon jani dinardo uh marsh smith mcgonagall and duncan 2250 02:40:43,359 --> 02:40:50,640 and stone stone so that's nine so the motion fails um i'll go back to 2251 02:40:49,200 --> 02:40:54,960 the previous speaker's list i had director sebring and then director marsh 2252 02:40:52,560 --> 02:40:54,960 i believe 2253 02:40:55,200 --> 02:40:58,640 thank you mr chair you don't but 2254 02:40:58,720 --> 02:41:06,960 it's interesting i'm a bit surprised that that 2255 02:41:03,680 --> 02:41:09,279 there's no limit on the ciao signing authority 2256 02:41:07,600 --> 02:41:12,080 and maybe i wasn't paying attention because i know in the north carolina 2257 02:41:10,960 --> 02:41:16,560 context there are limits some stuff does come to 2258 02:41:14,479 --> 02:41:19,840 council big tenders for example come to council 2259 02:41:17,279 --> 02:41:24,800 for awarding i mean mr kieber said uh you know mr carruthers and his staff 2260 02:41:22,399 --> 02:41:28,080 uh have authority up to their limits what is 2261 02:41:25,520 --> 02:41:31,439 mr carruther's limit and and this has nothing to do with trust i'm just trying 2262 02:41:29,439 --> 02:41:35,600 to figure out process here so i can maybe turn that over to staff 2263 02:41:33,680 --> 02:41:38,399 but when a budget is set for a project if the tender comes in within budget 2264 02:41:37,279 --> 02:41:42,800 it's up to them to be able to sign it but i don't know 2265 02:41:40,880 --> 02:41:46,399 if staff can provide more detail well then that's correct i believe what 2266 02:41:44,160 --> 02:41:49,120 mr kieber was referring to is staff below me have limits i 2267 02:41:47,600 --> 02:41:51,920 am the ultimate signing authority for the organization and and provided that 2268 02:41:51,120 --> 02:41:56,960 the budget is is approved by the by the board i have 2269 02:41:55,040 --> 02:42:01,120 the signing authority on behalf of the organization to sign 2270 02:41:58,080 --> 02:42:04,479 off on any of our invoices um uh other staff below me have limits 2271 02:42:04,160 --> 02:42:08,319 which which is what requires things to come to 2272 02:42:06,479 --> 02:42:12,479 me for final signature so to be clear your limit is what is set 2273 02:42:10,880 --> 02:42:18,800 by the board in the budget correct yeah not not like the parkade 2274 02:42:16,399 --> 02:42:22,640 and prince george sorry that's what i keep thinking about 2275 02:42:20,720 --> 02:42:29,359 but i think i have director marsh and then director salmon 2276 02:42:26,240 --> 02:42:31,680 yeah i'm nothing new i i think that we should support this now because we're 2277 02:42:30,720 --> 02:42:35,520 going to support it next time after an another long 2278 02:42:33,520 --> 02:42:39,520 conversation thank you i believe i have director 2279 02:42:37,359 --> 02:42:43,040 salmon next yeah thank you so just for for comfort 2280 02:42:42,000 --> 02:42:46,399 so is this why is this based on a template from uh 2281 02:42:46,000 --> 02:42:50,960 other local government or how did we come up 2282 02:42:48,000 --> 02:42:56,560 with these three pages of legalese through to staff thank you mr chair i 2283 02:42:54,800 --> 02:43:01,279 did review delegation bylaws from another 2284 02:42:57,359 --> 02:43:01,279 a number of other organizations 2285 02:43:02,479 --> 02:43:08,640 and discussed it thoroughly on several occasions with the senior management 2286 02:43:06,840 --> 02:43:13,760 team okay thank you thank you any further 2287 02:43:11,359 --> 02:43:22,479 discussion on the motion seeing none all those in favor 2288 02:43:16,960 --> 02:43:30,560 and opposed none opposed motion carries miss lego 2289 02:43:26,399 --> 02:43:34,560 uh next item is b5 cvrd bylaw 4364 thetas island wharf service amendment 2290 02:43:32,319 --> 02:43:38,800 requisition limit increase bylaw 2021 for adoption move by director smith 2291 02:43:36,880 --> 02:43:42,560 seconded by director yanni dinardo any discussion seeing none all those in 2292 02:43:41,279 --> 02:43:47,680 favor and any opposed non-opposed motion 2293 02:43:46,000 --> 02:43:53,840 carries miss lego item b6 excuse me cbrd bylaw 4368 2294 02:43:51,200 --> 02:43:58,479 security issuing bylaw spring 2021 for first second and third readings 2295 02:43:56,800 --> 02:44:01,840 moved by director wilson seconded by director morrison 2296 02:43:59,439 --> 02:44:06,080 any discussion seeing none all those in favor 2297 02:44:03,040 --> 02:44:09,920 and opposed an opposed motion carries miss lego 2298 02:44:07,040 --> 02:44:14,960 and cvrd bylaw 4368 security issuing by last spring 2021 for adoption 2299 02:44:13,120 --> 02:44:18,640 moved by director yanni dinardo seconded by director nicholson 2300 02:44:16,479 --> 02:44:22,720 any discussion seeing none all those in favor 2301 02:44:19,680 --> 02:44:26,479 and opposed none opposed motion carries miss 2302 02:44:23,120 --> 02:44:30,160 mr chair oh sorry yes i don't maybe i missed it but when we went 2303 02:44:28,399 --> 02:44:33,760 through b3 i think we only voted on the readings i 2304 02:44:32,319 --> 02:44:38,960 don't know if we voted on the adoption day mister 2305 02:44:34,800 --> 02:44:43,439 we did we did vote on the adoption yeah okay uh sorry where are we at ms lego 2306 02:44:43,680 --> 02:44:50,080 is this the adoption of b6 i think we've um i think you've called the result of 2307 02:44:49,200 --> 02:44:53,279 that one okay and so that means we're moving on 2308 02:44:52,160 --> 02:44:59,120 to question period correct thank you uh 2309 02:44:56,319 --> 02:45:01,520 10 minute recess please make sure you send your emails into legislative 2310 02:45:00,800 --> 02:45:06,640 services at cvrd.bc.ca and we 2311 02:45:04,800 --> 02:45:10,240 will be back or i definitely will be back at 443 2312 02:45:08,720 --> 02:45:15,840 on the button to go through those questions thank you 2313 02:45:25,200 --> 02:45:32,399 we're live okay so our question period is lego 2314 02:45:29,920 --> 02:45:34,960 the first submission is from devin de grute 2315 02:45:33,439 --> 02:45:37,920 i believe it would be a good idea to require that all questions submitted to 2316 02:45:36,640 --> 02:45:41,600 be responded to completely and fully but not necessarily 2317 02:45:39,840 --> 02:45:44,240 in the meeting for example if a question is not easily answered it can be put off 2318 02:45:43,279 --> 02:45:50,319 for a day or two but both the quest but 2319 02:45:48,240 --> 02:45:53,520 both could both the questions and the answers be posted to the minutes or 2320 02:45:52,080 --> 02:45:56,800 another forum when a community member asks a question 2321 02:45:55,279 --> 02:46:00,240 to your board it's not just the member who needs to hear the answer it is often 2322 02:45:58,560 --> 02:46:05,120 the whole community who is interested in the answer 2323 02:46:02,720 --> 02:46:09,840 thank you i i think that i can't make any commitments from 2324 02:46:06,319 --> 02:46:13,920 this chair but i know we will review the progress of this new system 2325 02:46:12,319 --> 02:46:17,120 and i guess we can take that under advisement and directors can bring 2326 02:46:16,000 --> 02:46:20,720 forward ideas such as that in the future 2327 02:46:22,479 --> 02:46:27,359 the next submission is from cliff evans and it's uh 2328 02:46:25,520 --> 02:46:31,520 kind of a series of questions all about the same thing but 2329 02:46:29,040 --> 02:46:35,520 uh so i'll read them as a group do you not have a great amount of knowledge 2330 02:46:33,439 --> 02:46:38,960 in front of you that is not being used isn't the sum of the knowledge of the 2331 02:46:36,880 --> 02:46:41,760 group always more than any one person in the group 2332 02:46:39,840 --> 02:46:45,279 why not use all the directors and staff if they happen to be present to help 2333 02:46:43,359 --> 02:46:48,960 answer the questions and if they can't just say so and get the answer for the 2334 02:46:46,880 --> 02:46:52,080 public for the next meeting didn't the board ask us to send 2335 02:46:50,479 --> 02:46:57,439 questions in advance at the meeting and then a director complains about it 2336 02:46:54,640 --> 02:46:57,439 what do you want 2337 02:46:57,840 --> 02:47:02,000 i can't represent all the varying viewpoints of the different directors 2338 02:47:01,120 --> 02:47:05,359 around the table i can only speak to the policies that 2339 02:47:03,680 --> 02:47:09,359 we've adopted the policy we have now is as as it's 2340 02:47:07,760 --> 02:47:13,120 been adopted and we hope that will support 2341 02:47:10,160 --> 02:47:17,040 better public input and i appreciate mr evans point of view but 2342 02:47:14,640 --> 02:47:21,120 i can't speak to individuals directors opinions once we've made a decision as a 2343 02:47:19,120 --> 02:47:24,399 board we all work together as a board and support those decisions 2344 02:47:25,680 --> 02:47:30,960 there are no further submissions for question period 2345 02:47:28,800 --> 02:47:34,160 okay thank you very much and we'll see how the 2346 02:47:32,000 --> 02:47:36,800 new system goes and we're always looking for input so you can always email the 2347 02:47:36,080 --> 02:47:42,399 board at board.cvrd.bc.ca i believe 2348 02:47:40,720 --> 02:47:45,680 on any items of concern within the region and we'll all see those and be 2349 02:47:44,080 --> 02:47:50,000 able to take that advice and input or questions accordingly thank 2350 02:47:48,399 --> 02:47:54,800 you very much for that and i believe ms lego that takes us to adjournment 2351 02:47:51,920 --> 02:47:58,000 motion to close the meeting uh sorry a motion to close the meeting moved by 2352 02:47:56,479 --> 02:48:03,439 director mark seconded by director wilson all those in favor 2353 02:48:00,240 --> 02:48:05,680 and opposed not opposed we are adjourned i believe