1
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:39,120
I will now call the role. It's a short
group tonight. Um, Commissioner Stump

2
00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,360
» here.
>> Commissioner Sordy

3
00:00:40,160 --> 00:00:43,280
» here.
>> Commissioner Bernett

4
00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:45,440
» here.
>> Commissioner Mayor

5
00:00:44,239 --> 00:00:49,440
» here.
>> I'm here as well. and Vice Chair Barnett

6
00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:53,680
and Commissioner Thomas are absent this
evening. Please stand if you can and

7
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:56,840
join as Commissioner Stump leads us in
the pledge.

8
00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:06,479
» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

9
00:01:03,039 --> 00:01:13,560
republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

10
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,560
justice for all.

11
00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:22,960
As the planning commission conducts the
meeting this evening, we encourage

12
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:26,400
active participation by the public,
which is essential to democracy and the

13
00:01:25,119 --> 00:01:30,000
important work of the planning
commission.

14
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:35,040
Public input is very much welcomed and
always considered. The public can

15
00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:39,520
participate in a couple ways. Prior to a
meeting, written comments about agenda

16
00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:42,479
items may be submitted to staff. And
during the meeting, there are two

17
00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:47,600
opportunities for members of the public
to participate. First, during the verbal

18
00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:52,000
communications period, an individual may
speak on a topic that is not on

19
00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:55,759
tonight's agenda. Second, during the
public hearing portion of tonight's

20
00:01:53,680 --> 00:02:00,560
meeting, any member of the public may
speak about an agenda item. If you wish

21
00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:06,000
to address the commission tonight during
verbal communications or on a public

22
00:02:03,119 --> 00:02:08,640
hearing item, uh if you are on Zoom,
please raise your hand. But if you are

23
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:14,080
here, could you please fill out one of
these cards and get them to staff? That

24
00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:17,840
way, I can call your name out properly.
When you are called to speak, please

25
00:02:15,920 --> 00:02:23,280
come up to the podium, speak directly
into the microphone, and you will have

26
00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:27,120
three minutes. We now will begin with
the verbal communications portion of the

27
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:31,760
meeting during which members of the
public are invited to address the

28
00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:35,440
commission on any issue not on tonight's
agenda.

29
00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:39,599
Uh, I would like to add that we take no
action on items discussed during the

30
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:45,560
verbal communications portion. And I
have I have one card, George of the

31
00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,560
Jungle.

32
00:02:54,959 --> 00:02:58,519
Door to the jungle.

33
00:02:58,879 --> 00:03:07,120
Birch tree.
Okay. Um

34
00:03:04,159 --> 00:03:14,480
the uh two two things that I want to
kind of bring up. Um one is the what's

35
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:19,920
going on with uh Farley and WV VMA. It's
in the town and everybody's talking

36
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:27,120
about the um um the fire, you know, the
the difference between over 1,200 going

37
00:03:24,239 --> 00:03:32,400
in under, you know, 600. And it's, you
know, it's really not good news for the

38
00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:36,319
town. And I just want you guys to plan
for just in case they're planning on

39
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:40,560
something like a lot of people showing
up and stuff like that. We we need to

40
00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:45,840
plan for that stuff. Other thing is I I
I gave you this soccer I mean uh the the

41
00:03:43,599 --> 00:03:53,040
field. I don't know you do you guys got
this? It's a the GMAX test and it's you

42
00:03:50,319 --> 00:03:57,360
know I I just received this. I'm doing
trying to do a real thorough job of

43
00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:03,920
what's going on and I just want to point
this out that 259 is incredibly high and

44
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:08,959
it it's just, you know, I'm I'm going to
still look at it, but it's it's just

45
00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:13,920
something that I want to point that out
and uh you know, that's another thing

46
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:18,560
that might come back to haunt us if
certain things are, you know, going

47
00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:25,280
sideways on us. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Are there any questions for

48
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:30,440
the speaker? No, thank you. Um, it looks
like I do have a second one. Linda

49
00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,440
Swinberg.

50
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:47,280
Hi, I'm Linda Swenberg. Um, I guess this
is somewhat related to the last speaker.

51
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:54,320
Um, I wanted to talk about trust between
the town and the residents. I do trust

52
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:58,479
this town and I trust your process, but
I'll be honest, my trust is wearing

53
00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:03,600
quite thin. We've been through five
planning commission hearings on a multih

54
00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:07,919
hall assembly item. As public, we get
three minutes and then you deliberate

55
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:13,120
and if we hear something that sounds
kind of odd or that we have experience

56
00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:18,639
on, obviously we don't have an
opportunity to interject at that time

57
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:26,320
and that's just how the process works.
But um it's really too bad when I heard

58
00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:31,759
the numbers come up um at a previous
meeting. It just didn't jive because I

59
00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:37,039
had previous experience as a volunteer
in the community as a house manager for

60
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:41,919
school plays. And when we have when we
run those plays and set up the house,

61
00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:45,360
you have to lock the chairs together,
the folding chairs into groups of three.

62
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:49,520
I don't know if any of you have done
that before, but that's in order to

63
00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:53,840
ensure that there's an orderly exit
process should an emergency happen. You

64
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:58,560
can't just have people out on the floor.
You wouldn't be allowed to put as many

65
00:05:55,919 --> 00:06:04,960
people in the room if you did not lock
those chairs together. Um, so

66
00:06:03,039 --> 00:06:09,440
unfortunately,
you got the wrong information. That's

67
00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:13,840
what it turns out. And it's not that the
numbers changed. You got numbers from

68
00:06:11,919 --> 00:06:20,720
earlier in the process. I do have a
handout if you want. It might help you

69
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:27,039
understand. But the thing is that um
basically you got information from the

70
00:06:24,319 --> 00:06:32,319
beginning of a process that was supposed
to happen uh and the beginning of

71
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:36,880
numbers that the building department was
supposed to really have and to be able

72
00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:43,039
to verify. I don't know where that
disconnect happened, but it did. Um

73
00:06:41,039 --> 00:06:48,319
anyway,
My last concern of my my concern is

74
00:06:45,759 --> 00:06:54,880
these probably people have been in an
unsafe overpacked uh situation for quite

75
00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:59,520
a while now. Um but my last concern is
forward thinking forward looking

76
00:06:57,280 --> 00:07:05,680
assuming this were a theater or any
other assembly project. If seating has

77
00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:11,599
changed from fixed or strapped chairs or
anything like that to standing in which

78
00:07:09,039 --> 00:07:15,440
is what happened. How will we know that
in the future it will be handled

79
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:20,000
properly? We shouldn't have to wait for
complaints.

80
00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:23,199
If an inspector sees a situation that is
not like it was before, they should be

81
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:30,000
asking questions. They should be
entitled to do that. So, what I ask you

82
00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:35,039
is um I respectfully ask you that you
direct staff to create a simple

83
00:07:31,919 --> 00:07:40,560
checklist for any assembly use change
fixed to floor or to standing or sitting

84
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:44,560
on the floor. um requiring seating plans
and all of that. Um like a simple

85
00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,599
checklist.
Okay.

86
00:07:45,039 --> 00:07:48,720
» Yeah.
>> Would you like

87
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,720
» Don't leave questions. Are there
questions for the speaker?

88
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:56,560
» Okay. I do. You you've said different
numbers a couple times, but I would like

89
00:07:54,319 --> 00:08:00,240
you to clarify for our notes exactly
which numbers you're referencing.

90
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:04,400
» Well, it's in the planning department's
file for the particular project. I don't

91
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:10,479
have the numbers right here, but there
are actually letters on um record now.

92
00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:12,080
Are you referencing allowable occupancy
of the space?

93
00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:14,879
» Yes.
>> Okay.

94
00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:21,199
» Yeah. So, the different numbers, one of
them is how many fish can you fit in a

95
00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:24,000
can and the the final number is how many
can actually get out in time,

96
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,879
» right?
>> Okay.

97
00:08:24,479 --> 00:08:29,919
» Yes. And feel free if you want to give
the handouts to staff, they will share

98
00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:34,240
them with us if you'd like.
>> Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. Any other

99
00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:39,200
questions? All right.
Are there any hands raised on Zoom?

100
00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:46,279
I'm going to assume no.

101
00:08:48,399 --> 00:08:53,440
» There are no hands raised.
>> Okay. Thanks. I wasn't really sure which

102
00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:58,959
one of you I should be looking at for
that question right now. So, all right.

103
00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:03,519
We will move on to the consent calendar
tonight. We have five items on our

104
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:09,200
consent calendar. Approving the draft
minutes of the May 21st, 2026 planning

105
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,800
commission meeting. Special meeting.
Approving the draft minutes of the June

106
00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:18,880
11th planning commission special
meeting. Approve the draft minutes of

107
00:09:15,519 --> 00:09:22,240
the June 24th, 2026 planning commission
meeting.

108
00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:27,519
Approve the draft minutes of the August
12th, 2026 planning commission meeting.

109
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:33,279
and forward a recommendation to the town
council on an ordinance amending chapter

110
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:39,360
29, the zoning regulations of the town
code for Senate Bill 9 SB9 regarding

111
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:43,760
urban lot splits and two-unit housing
developments in response to changes in

112
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:48,560
state laws. The proposed amendment to
the town code are not considered a

113
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:52,320
project under section 15378
of the California Environmental Quality

114
00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:56,760
Act and in accordance with the
government code section 66411.7N

115
00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:03,839
and 66452.21G
21G

116
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:08,080
Senate Bill 9 ordinance are not a
project subject to California

117
00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:12,200
Environmental Quality Act. Town Code
amendment application A-26-00004.

118
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,760
Are there any speaker cards from the
members of the public that may wish to

119
00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:22,560
pull or is there anyone on Zoom with
their hand raised?

120
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:26,959
» You do have a card for verbal.
>> That's it. Okay.

121
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:33,600
» Or sorry for for the minutes.
>> Oh, that's sorry. Yeah, you're right.

122
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:38,560
Okay. So, I do have a a card.
Is this just to speak or to

123
00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:43,240
» to speak on the consent calendar?
>> Just to speak. Okay. Um Brown,

124
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:56,800
this is where the Brown Act started. I
think you guys all know the minutes are

125
00:10:54,640 --> 00:11:03,440
I think very important to at least
document uh just a little little uh

126
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:11,279
phrases and stuff like that and you know
at one point all all but Rob Stump uh

127
00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:19,600
you know redid it. So, I'm I'm just
saying, hey, uh the like the the May

128
00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:26,160
21st one is is, you know, I I basically
uh uh put it in the email and I, you

129
00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:32,000
know, transcript it, you know, so it's
it's it's part of what the last speaker

130
00:11:30,079 --> 00:11:38,399
is, you know, I I'm just trying to put
out the truth and it should, you know, I

131
00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:43,600
I kind of filed the class action. I'd
hope that maybe we get a I'm I'm to

132
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:50,160
suggest that we all sign a document.
Hey, get one uh US district court judge

133
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:55,839
that's a senior that I've talked before.
She actually let me speak. I'm I'm not

134
00:11:52,720 --> 00:12:00,560
terrible speaker and I had a lawyer and
but I was having problems with lawyer.

135
00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:07,519
So, it's one of those things where, you
know, if somebody that's that knows law

136
00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:14,160
because my my this Brown Act was
between, you know, town attorney and me

137
00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:17,920
and uh it's it just ballooned. Okay.
Thank you. Any questions? No.

138
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:23,120
» Any questions?
>> Thank you.

139
00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:27,600
Um do any commissioners wish to pull any
item from the consent calendar?

140
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:33,279
Commissioner stop. It's not pull, but I
was not present at the uh June 11th

141
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:38,959
special meeting, but I did watch every
moment of it on YouTube.

142
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:45,560
» All right, Commissioner Bernett.
>> Yes, I as well was not uh present for

143
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:45,560
the August 2026

144
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:53,519
planning commission meeting. Um I did
watch it, however, so I feel good about

145
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:56,639
item number five and item one through
three.

146
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,760
» All right. Thank you. Any further
discussion or does anyone want to make a

147
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:03,519
motion? Commissioner Stomp.
>> I move to approve the consent calendar.

148
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,600
» Second.
>> Second.

149
00:13:04,079 --> 00:13:10,480
» Commissioner Sordy. Is there any
discussion? All right. Uh call the

150
00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:13,480
question. All in favor? Passes
unanimously.

151
00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:21,880
All right. We will now move on to our
public hearings starting with item

152
00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:21,880
number six.

153
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:29,839
Okay,
hold on. I want to make sure I just did

154
00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:33,360
this right on my notes. I did. Okay.
Consider a request for approval to

155
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:38,079
construct a new second story addition to
an existing single family reference

156
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:45,959
residence on a non-conforming property
zoned R18 located at 1 193 House Drive,

157
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,959
APN527-43-021,

158
00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:52,120
architecture and site application
S-26-007.

159
00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:58,959
categorically exempt pursuant to the
California Environmental Quality Act

160
00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:04,959
section 15301
existing facilities property owner Nira

161
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:09,600
Goyell and applicant is Laura Cuda the
project planner is Siri Nathan before

162
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,720
the staff report may I have a show of
hands of those that have seen the

163
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,720
property I think we did this previously
so all right and Mr. Nathan, you'll be

164
00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:19,040
presenting the staff report this
evening.

165
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,320
» I will. Thank you, chair. Um, good
evening, commissioners. Before is an

166
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:27,839
architectural site application for a
project located at 193 House Drive,

167
00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:31,680
zoned R18 on June 10th of this year. The
planning commission continued the item

168
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:36,079
to today's hearing with specific
direction for applicant to scale down

169
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:40,000
the overall building mashing and
increase the setback of the second floor

170
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,760
great room wall to break up the rear
twotory vertical plane. The applicant

171
00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:47,680
states in the letter of justification
that they have met the commission's

172
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:52,480
directions by removing the second floor
open space above the great room and

173
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:58,079
thereby reducing the structures overall
massing by 22% and eliminating the need

174
00:14:55,519 --> 00:15:02,000
for the second story wall setback.
Additionally, the applicant revised the

175
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:06,639
plans to feature frosted glass garage
door. While the town consulting I has

176
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:10,560
not evaluated the specific material
change, staff notes that the town's

177
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:14,800
residential design guideline encourages
this encourages the use of wood garage

178
00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:18,240
doors. This concludes staff's
presentation and staff will be happy to

179
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:24,440
answer any questions you might have.
>> Thank you, Mr. Nathan. Are there any

180
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,440
questions for staff? Commissioner Stump,

181
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:33,279
» can I um
ask about this garage door because it's

182
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:38,320
a little bit unique. Our residential
guidelines call for wood or is it

183
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:43,600
woodlike wood simulated or is it truly
they call for wood garage doors?

184
00:15:40,959 --> 00:15:49,360
» Uh the res design guideline just states
that it encourages the use of wood. It

185
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:54,320
also says it encourages the use of
windows in the garage. Um that's it

186
00:15:52,880 --> 00:16:00,560
doesn't go any further than that.
>> Do we have experience with this type of

187
00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:04,160
garage door in the neighborhood or um
what's been the reaction or the response

188
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:08,160
to these kinds of garage doors in other
locations?

189
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:12,160
» Um there have been doors of similar
material that has been approved in the

190
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:16,160
past. uh usually in the building permit
stage. Uh I'm not sure about this type

191
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,839
of garage within the immediate
neighborhood or in the neighborhood.

192
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:26,480
» And through the chair, I can add also
that um we see these types of garage

193
00:16:22,639 --> 00:16:31,040
doors come up fairly regularly. Um often
the consulting architect may express

194
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:35,040
some concern with it. Um when we are
outside of a discretionary application,

195
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:38,399
we often work with applicants to ensure
that one of the concerns that the

196
00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:43,759
architect typically brings up, which is
uh light bleed through um is that they

197
00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:47,199
can put solid panels behind the glass.
So from the exterior, it still looks

198
00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:51,040
like you still get that look of that
contemporary garage door, but it

199
00:16:48,959 --> 00:16:54,480
eliminates the light bleed. That's one
of the characteristics of these doors

200
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:58,639
that can be challenging. The other is
that um whether the contemporary look of

201
00:16:56,959 --> 00:17:01,120
that door is compatible with the
neighborhood

202
00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:05,760
» and other than it still doesn't comply
with our residential guidelines, has

203
00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:10,400
that been an acceptable fix for light
bleed that we're at least aware of?

204
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:12,319
» Yes, we haven't I to my knowledge we
don't get a whole lot of complaints

205
00:17:11,439 --> 00:17:17,199
about these.
>> Thank you.

206
00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:22,319
» Right. Any further questions to staff?
All right. And I will call up the

207
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:26,319
applicant to speak. I believe James
Woodard or Oh, no. You okay? Sorry. Just

208
00:17:25,199 --> 00:17:30,160
please state your name when you come up
and if you get a chance later, just fill

209
00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:33,840
out a card.
>> Oh, there's two. Did I just grab the

210
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:39,600
wrong one? I did. Just go ahead. Sorry.
Go ahead and state your name.

211
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:43,679
» Uh hello everyone. My name is Tika Ger.
Uh and thank you for your time today. So

212
00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,000
today I'll talk a little bit about our
project. uh why it's important to us and

213
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,679
the changes in the design we've made to
meet the recommendations and we're

214
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:56,320
looking forward to get an approval
today. So why this project is important

215
00:17:54,160 --> 00:18:00,799
to us. If you go to the next slide uh
one more uh a little bit context

216
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:05,120
actually one less a little bit first
context about our family. We are a

217
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:10,640
family of four me my husband and two
kids. Uh one just started sixth grade uh

218
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:15,039
and the other one is in kindergarten. Uh
going to the next slide.

219
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,120
The reason we live here is we love this
neighborhood. We have been living here

220
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:22,480
since 2018. Our kids attend public
school here. They have their closest

221
00:18:20,799 --> 00:18:28,240
friends. We have built our strong
relationships with neighbors. It's just

222
00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:32,400
simply home for us. This the next one
that's a picture of my daughter with her

223
00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:37,600
friends in the neighborhood. And then
the next one slide is the picture of our

224
00:18:34,799 --> 00:18:43,440
little one. Uh if you go to the next
slide that's them in the play lot next

225
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:47,840
to our house. And then the next slide
has a picture of me with our community

226
00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:52,160
in our backyard. And then the next one
is a picture of needed with his friends

227
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:56,240
and family in our backyard.
Going to the next slide. We believe in

228
00:18:54,400 --> 00:19:01,840
peaceful neighborly living and community
service. We both currently serve and

229
00:18:58,799 --> 00:19:06,320
have served on several nonprofit boards.
This is going to the next slide. This is

230
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:10,080
the list of those nonprofit boards. And
today I'm not mentioning this to just

231
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:14,799
gain any advantage but just to share our
principles that we believe in giving

232
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,240
back to this community. Now going to the
next slide. What has prompted this

233
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:22,720
remodel?
The context has changed a lot since we

234
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:27,600
bought the house in 2018. When we
bought, we were a family of three and

235
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:32,320
now we are four. And then since Nero's
dad passed away last year, his mom comes

236
00:19:29,919 --> 00:19:37,679
to stay with us more often. So, we just
simply need more space. Now going to the

237
00:19:35,360 --> 00:19:40,160
next slide. We have I want to walk
through the changes in the design we

238
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:43,600
have made to address the
recommendations.

239
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:48,640
We believe we have addressed the massing
and sizing concern raised by staff and

240
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:52,880
planning commission. Going to the next
slide, the recommendation was to scale

241
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:57,440
down the overall massing to better match
the neighborhood context. In the first

242
00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:03,440
iteration itself, we reduce the overall
size from 2600 ft² to 2,300 ft² to meet

243
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:08,480
the objective guideline. And today in
our latest uh redesign uh it was uh

244
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:13,280
established in the last hearing that
it's not a problem of twotory or floor

245
00:20:10,559 --> 00:20:17,600
area ratio but the massing and as staff
mentioned in this new redesign we have

246
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:22,960
removed the open space on top of great
room reducing the massing by 22%.

247
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:26,880
Going to the new uh next slide you can
see this was the old design and if you

248
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:31,919
go to the next slide you'll see the
reduction in the mass is coming from the

249
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:35,679
illumination of that space.
uh you going to the next slide you'll be

250
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:39,280
able to see also this was the old design
from the front and then if you go to the

251
00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:43,039
next slide you'll see the reduction
significant reduction in massing from

252
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:46,799
the front as well
we believe we have also met all the

253
00:20:44,559 --> 00:20:51,760
consulting architects recommendations so
uh the first recommendation if you go to

254
00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:55,520
the next slide what uh one more please
uh the first recommendation was to

255
00:20:53,200 --> 00:21:00,400
extend the first floor eve and roof
across the twotory wall and to set the

256
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:04,240
second floor uh great room wall back so
in the first iteration itself we had

257
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:08,559
extended the eve and now that since we
have eliminated the space above great

258
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:12,559
room so that a setback condition is met
and if you go to the slides you can see

259
00:21:10,159 --> 00:21:18,000
the old design and the new design uh
where the eve and uh the set uh space is

260
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:23,039
that wall itself is gone. The second
recommendation if you go uh was to get

261
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:26,320
more uniformity in the windows. Now in
the first iteration itself we had done

262
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,159
that actually for all the windows except
for one which was in the stairways and

263
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:34,320
that two we had left just for additional
light light in the stairways. But now in

264
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:38,720
the second iteration we have addressed
that window itself. So if you go to the

265
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:43,039
next slide this was the old design and
going to the next slide you see a new

266
00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:46,960
design with much uniformity across all
the windows.

267
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:50,000
Quick uh uh quickly going to the next uh
there were two more recommendations from

268
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:52,559
the consulting architect which were
actually addressed in the first

269
00:21:51,039 --> 00:21:58,000
iteration itself. So we can skip over
the next two slides in interest of time

270
00:21:54,880 --> 00:22:01,280
and get to the neighborhood context. Uh
going to one more slide actually. So we

271
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:04,799
believe we are being a responsible
neighbor. We have been constantly

272
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,720
communicating with all our neighbors on
the design. We have shared design

273
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:13,919
printouts and today we have letter of
supports from seven of our neighbors who

274
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:18,640
support this design and remodel for us.
Some other quick uh points uh to

275
00:22:15,919 --> 00:22:24,880
consider the house. Uh if you go a few
more slides uh we can skip over the

276
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:29,360
letters I think. Um and one more slide.
The house behind us with which we share

277
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:34,080
a fence is twotory. So we can go to the
next slide and there are many more such

278
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:39,039
two-story houses just few uh houses down
from us on our street. So, we have

279
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:45,520
attached all of those pictures
and uh quickly with I know two seconds,

280
00:22:41,919 --> 00:22:49,520
but if you go to the last slide uh
or I can skip it because I know I'm out

281
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:53,799
of time.
>> Does anyone have a question for this?

282
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,120
» I have a question.
>> Well, Commissioner Bernett just raised

283
00:22:57,039 --> 00:23:04,000
faster than you, so now you got to wait.
>> Thank you. So would you have any

284
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:08,480
problems actually not putting uh keeping
with the same kind of garage door that

285
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:13,120
is prominent in the neighborhood?
>> Yes. So did you want to address the

286
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:16,080
garage door question
>> to the question for the immediate

287
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,880
neighborhood in the neighborhood the
glass door that we've put in the garage

288
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:26,480
it's like quite prominent and I think in
our uh submission we have shared the

289
00:23:24,159 --> 00:23:31,200
many houses sh having the same garage
door but if it becomes uh a pertinent

290
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:35,440
question or the blocker we would be open
to considering it but we have already

291
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:41,200
submitted few houses which have similar
in the uh neighborhood. So, you're

292
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:44,960
saying you would not be interested in
keeping it in the same look that it is

293
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:49,600
now?
>> So, to rephrase what he just said, uh we

294
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:53,280
would uh respectfully ask for permission
to keep the glass door design we have

295
00:23:51,679 --> 00:23:56,480
offered, but if that's becoming a
condition for approval, we'd be happy to

296
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,840
reconsider it.
>> Thank you,

297
00:23:58,159 --> 00:24:04,960
Commissioner Sordy.
>> I was just going to ask the applicant to

298
00:24:01,919 --> 00:24:09,760
go ahead and explain that last slide.
>> Uh thank you. I really appreciate it. I

299
00:24:08,159 --> 00:24:14,640
believe this was also a point brought up
by Commissioner Saudi last time. So, um

300
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:20,640
we our house has a lot of natural
shading. So, uh if Oh, I are you

301
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:26,880
referring to this slide or the slide
after this? Sorry.

302
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,240
» I think it was that slide. It's your
last slide. The one you didn't get to

303
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:35,279
present.
>> Oh, yes. The one we didn't get. So, it's

304
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:40,400
one more slide down actually.
Yes. Uh so going one more down.

305
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:47,440
Okay. Yes. So the house has a lot of
natural shade and uh as you can see uh

306
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:51,039
this one we have the story poles up but
you can hardly see them from the play

307
00:24:49,039 --> 00:24:56,000
lot and actually there's one more slide
where you can see even from the front

308
00:24:52,799 --> 00:24:59,679
view. Uh going to one more slide the and
there also the story poles are up but

309
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:04,679
they're hardly visible from the street.
So the natural shade protects that view.

310
00:25:05,360 --> 00:25:13,360
Any further questions for the speaker?
No. All right. Thank you.

311
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:16,919
» Okay. So, I do then have a second card
from James Woodard.

312
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:24,400
» So, James Woodard with Sego Designs. I'm
the principal designer of the project

313
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,080
and I have a um comment card there just
for answering any questions that may

314
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:32,720
come.
>> Ah, okay. Thank you very much. Um I

315
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:36,480
don't have any other cards. normally you
get, you know, time to come back and

316
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:43,440
make a closing statement. If you would
like to, please go right ahead.

317
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:48,000
» I do appreciate that time. So, yes. Um,
I just want to really summarize what I

318
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:53,360
already walked through. We love this
neighborhood. We have built our home

319
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:56,960
here and our requirements and context
have changed. We believe we have

320
00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,559
followed all the recommendations of the
staff, the consulting architect and the

321
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:04,480
planning commission. So, we're
respectfully uh asking for an approval

322
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,559
today so we can continue to be a part of
this community.

323
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:12,640
» Okay.
>> Thank you. Are there any final

324
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:16,320
questions? No. And as I always do, I
forgot to ask if there was anybody with

325
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:19,200
their hand raised on Zoom. I'm so sorry.
>> No, there were no raised no hands raised

326
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:23,679
on Zoom.
>> Okay. I will like put it bold and red.

327
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:28,400
Um, all right. We will close the public
portion for this um particular item and

328
00:26:26,159 --> 00:26:32,000
I will then ask my fellow commissioners,
do you have any questions of staff or

329
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:35,960
would anyone like to make a motion
before we can begin discussion?

330
00:26:37,279 --> 00:26:43,039
» Sorty.
>> Uh, I'll go ahead and make a motion to

331
00:26:40,159 --> 00:26:47,200
approve the project. Um, I think the
applicants made some considerable

332
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:51,600
changes. Uh most significantly, I think
they have they um specifically requested

333
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:55,440
what we asked them to, which was to
quote scale down the massing to improve

334
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,880
neighborhood compatibility and increase
the setback of the second floor great

335
00:26:57,360 --> 00:27:04,080
room wall to break up the two-story
vertical plane. Um I think they've done

336
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:10,640
a significant amount of reduction in
that massing. So I'll just um recommend

337
00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:14,960
uh make a motion um to approve the
project subject to the findings that the

338
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:18,480
project is categorically exempt.
uh subject to the finding that the

339
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:22,799
objective standards of chapter 29 of
town code have been met.

340
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,559
Um number three that the finding that
the project is in compliance with the

341
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:31,440
residential design guidelines. Number
four um considerations as required under

342
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:35,600
29.20.150
of the town code relating to

343
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:39,760
architecture and site application. And
finally to approve the architecture and

344
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:43,120
site application S260007
with the conditions contained in exhibit

345
00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:47,840
3 and revised development plans in
exhibit 11.

346
00:27:45,919 --> 00:27:49,840
» Thank you. Is there a second?
Commissioner Mayor

347
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,880
» I'll second.
>> All right. Thank you. Is there any

348
00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:55,919
discussion?
Commissioner Stump.

349
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:59,360
» And I I don't know if this question is
really appropriate. I guess it's to the

350
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:04,480
fellow commissioners. Um, obviously with
our residential design guidelines, it

351
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:08,080
talks about this frosted glass garage
door and that it really is not a fit

352
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:14,000
with our residential design guidelines.
I realize they're just guidelines. Uh,

353
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:17,039
but at the same time, uh, the the owners
actually indicated a willingness to

354
00:28:15,679 --> 00:28:22,799
consider something other than the
frosted glass door if that would allow

355
00:28:19,919 --> 00:28:25,639
for obviously approval. Um, and so I'm
just trying to get a sense from other

356
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,200
commissioners, you know, and how
[clears throat] they kind of feel about

357
00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:32,720
the whole garage door issue because I'm
not set on it. It's just something that

358
00:28:31,039 --> 00:28:36,480
when you we look at our residential
design guidelines and try and take them

359
00:28:34,399 --> 00:28:42,880
seriously.
>> I I will actually speak up on this um

360
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:48,799
because I will say um a few years ago I
remodeled my home. My home has lights in

361
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:53,039
the garage and we worked with staff to
make sure that they are frosted to a

362
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:58,159
point with shades that there is no light
bleed. So I would trust

363
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:02,960
staff to work with them on a solution
because they did with us. That would be

364
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:07,520
my personal opinion. Yes. Does anyone
else have any Commissioner Bernett?

365
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:12,480
» Yes, I tend to agree with Commissioner
Stump. Um, I think going through the

366
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:19,520
neighborhood, I think it was uh
predominantly a a more of a condition a

367
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:24,000
traditional garage door. And I think
that they I congratulate them for making

368
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:28,960
the changes. And I think it'd be a small
request to keep with the uh the keeping

369
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:36,000
of the neighborhood and the keeping of
our residential design guidelines which

370
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:42,320
is uh clearly outlined that uh is we
encourage to use wood garage doors and I

371
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:48,640
think this um would have a much better
uh effect with overall look of the home

372
00:29:46,159 --> 00:29:54,799
and the neighborhood. So, I would
support a friendly amendment to uh the

373
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:59,320
maker of the motion, but um that that
would be my suggestion.

374
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:05,039
» To the maker of the motion, is that an
amendment you wish to make?

375
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:09,039
» Well, not quite ready to make it. I
guess I want to understand what design

376
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:14,120
guideline we're
um addressing because maybe I missed it

377
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,120
in the staff report.

378
00:30:16,399 --> 00:30:24,559
The residency design guideline is 3.4.3.
It states that uh to integrate garage

379
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:30,240
door into the design with appropriate
details, wood doors are encouraged and

380
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:34,240
windows in garage doors are encouraged
and it doesn't really go beyond that in

381
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:38,720
terms of describing.
>> So the second part was specifically wood

382
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,640
door.
>> Wood doors.

383
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,320
» It calls out the material.
>> Yeah.

384
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:46,399
» Okay.
Um, well, I think the applicant

385
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,600
expressed
uh a willingness to do that and since

386
00:30:47,919 --> 00:30:53,279
it's a residential design guideline, I
guess I'm happy to make the friendly

387
00:30:50,799 --> 00:30:56,240
amendment.
>> Does the seconder agree?

388
00:30:55,840 --> 00:31:00,000
» Yes.
>> Yes.

389
00:30:57,919 --> 00:31:06,159
» Second. [laughter]
>> All right. Um, quite honestly, for

390
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:09,600
discussion, I I don't agree. Um, I also
think that that is one of our guidelines

391
00:31:07,679 --> 00:31:14,720
that needs to be updated. I think that
there are a lot of situations where wood

392
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:19,840
is not appropriate. Um, and more modern
styles are coming out, but it's just one

393
00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:23,120
part of the motion. So, I will be
supporting the motion. Is there any

394
00:31:21,919 --> 00:31:26,559
further discussion? Sure.
>> Commissioner Mayor?

395
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:33,200
» Yeah. On that uh design guideline, did
you say that uh it's encouraged to use

396
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:37,200
wood garage doors with
uh windows in the in the door itself or

397
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:41,279
in the garage? What's what is it
specifically?

398
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:44,799
» Right. Thank you. Yes, it says u windows
in garage doors are encouraged. It's

399
00:31:43,919 --> 00:31:49,279
another bullet point.
>> So, can that be part of the motion uh to

400
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:54,880
the maker of the motion that is wood
door with windows in in the door f?

401
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:58,720
» Yes, I would definitely want a wood door
with windows. Okay. [laughter] So, I

402
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:03,440
kind of think of that as coming standard
these days, but uh let's clarify it for

403
00:32:01,279 --> 00:32:07,679
that. Sure.
>> Through the chair. I mean, I think so.

404
00:32:05,519 --> 00:32:13,120
The wood is encouraged.
we other rather or other than in

405
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:18,559
historic districts hardly ever see wood.
They're typically metal rollups that

406
00:32:15,039 --> 00:32:23,519
have um windows in them. Um but just
just for the commission's information.

407
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:27,519
Um obviously wood's encouraged, so you
can feel free to do that, but just want

408
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:30,519
to make sure that you understand that as
well.

409
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:38,399
» That's a good point.
Um,

410
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:43,760
I mean, as we talk through this, I do
acknowledge the fact that

411
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:47,360
very often nowadays, um, garage doors
have a wood appearance, but they're

412
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:51,120
metal, right? And so, that just kind of
leave it open-ended as to the material.

413
00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:57,760
And I do feel now a little bit like I'm
being a little too ownorous by requiring

414
00:32:52,960 --> 00:33:02,720
wood. So, um, is it too late to
I'll go back to my original motion. I

415
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:04,880
think that I I I do now that we discuss
it and we kind of work through it, I

416
00:33:03,919 --> 00:33:09,600
think it's important to give the
applicant the opportunity to have design

417
00:33:07,279 --> 00:33:13,919
freedom and be able to um do what they
want with the garage door. So, I'll

418
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:19,082
stick with my original motion.
>> Is this acceptable to the seconder?

419
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:21,039
» Uh no, I you are not the seconder.
[laughter]

420
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:25,519
» I want to be the second.
>> I know, but you're not. So,

421
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:31,679
» uh yeah, I'm okay with that. as long as
uh there's language uh in the motion to

422
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:34,399
um you know implement a design to
prevent the light bleed from through

423
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,919
through the through the glass.
>> Yeah. Yes.

424
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,600
» Okay. And then that I think they can
work with staff on that the light bleed,

425
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,120
right?
>> Yes.

426
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,880
» Okay.
>> Is there any Okay.

427
00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:50,799
» Okay. Thank you. Is there any further
discussion?

428
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:56,399
» So my issue is that it's a frosted glass
garage door. Now, it can it doesn't need

429
00:33:53,840 --> 00:34:00,159
to be wood, but it needs to be similar
to the other garage doors in the

430
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:07,279
neighborhood and with windows at the
top. My issue is that of a a frosted

431
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:11,520
glass garage door and with our design
guidelines are is not appropriate. And

432
00:34:09,919 --> 00:34:16,720
right now, that's what we're following
is our design guidelines. They haven't

433
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:24,159
been updated yet. So that I would
continue to want to uh you know further

434
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:29,040
explain what my issue would be and I
don't know if the maker of the motion

435
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:37,200
and the second maker of the motion uh
would go along with that or not. Um

436
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:40,879
» no I don't agree. Sorry.
Commissioner Sto.

437
00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:44,399
» And I I certainly don't see this as a
black and white issue, unfortunately,

438
00:34:42,879 --> 00:34:49,280
because even as I saw that our
recommendation is for a wood garage

439
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:54,159
door. My reaction was, "Wow, that's so
yesterday." Uh because wood garage doors

440
00:34:51,839 --> 00:35:00,400
are very heavy. Uh you typically never
see them in a rollup door any longer.

441
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:05,119
But there are garage doors that are made
to look woodlike. I'll put it that way.

442
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:09,520
They certainly can't replace Well, some
of them do. Some of them are really

443
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:14,880
really good and have windows etc in
them. And so um I'm just going to go

444
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:18,800
with the technicality kind of nothing
personal but I'm going to stick with you

445
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:22,240
know the idea that it should be woodlike
even though it's not wood you know and

446
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:27,280
they certainly have the right to put
windows in it but I I won't vote for the

447
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,880
motion as it is.
>> All right.

448
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:34,160
» But I understand.
>> Okay. Okay. Any further discussion?

449
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:38,480
» All right. I will call the question. All
in favor?

450
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:44,000
Right. Opposed?
Motion passes two to three. Are there

451
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:46,720
any appeal rights on this item?
>> Yes. The decision of the planning

452
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:52,560
commission can be appealed to the town
council by any interested person as

453
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:57,920
defined by town code section 29.10.020
within 10 days on forms available online

454
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:04,240
with fees paid. The appeal is due by 100
p.m. on the final day if it is a Friday.

455
00:36:01,359 --> 00:36:08,000
» All right. Thank you. We will move on to
item number seven. Consider an appeal of

456
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,320
the community development director
decision to approve a request to

457
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:17,920
construct a second story addition
exceeding 100 square feet to an existing

458
00:36:15,119 --> 00:36:28,200
single family resident on property zoned
R-120

459
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:28,200
PD located at 695 Bnel Road APN 40703006

460
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,960
minor residential application MR-26-001

461
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:41,760
categorically exempt pursuant to the
California Environmental Quality Act

462
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:47,599
guidelines section 15301
existing facilities. Property owners

463
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:53,599
Ronald C. Eddington Jr. and Marjgery
Eddington. The applicant is James Hec.

464
00:36:50,320 --> 00:37:01,880
The appellant is is Dale Drum and the
project planner is Sean Mullen.

465
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,880
Can I get a show of hands of who have

466
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:09,040
Okay, sorry. It's getting instructions.
All who have visited the property. There

467
00:37:07,599 --> 00:37:14,920
we go. Is there any are there any
disclosures? All right. Seeing none,

468
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,880
you like threw me for a curve by handing
me cards in the roll that um Mr. Mullen,

469
00:37:19,359 --> 00:37:23,359
will you be giving us a staff report on
this?

470
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:27,040
» Yes, and thank you. Uh before you this
evening is an appeal of the community

471
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:31,119
development director's decision um
approving the second story addition on

472
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:34,480
the Biknel residence. The minor
residential development application was

473
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:38,240
reviewed by the town, including the
town's consulting architect. The

474
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:42,320
applicant responded to all the
consulting architect's recommendations.

475
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,079
In the course of the application review,
the neighbor also expressed some privacy

476
00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:50,800
and massing concerns to which the
applicant responded by revising the

477
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:54,960
project um including eliminating the
exterior staircase, incorporating a

478
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:59,839
privacy wall on the balcony, and
incorporating trelluses to break up the

479
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:04,720
two-story mass on the side elevation. Uh
the application was deemed complete and

480
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:07,920
given uh the applicant's response to the
recommendations and the neighbor

481
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:12,160
feedback, the director approved the
minor residential development

482
00:38:09,119 --> 00:38:16,000
application on June 26th. Um that
decision was appealed to the planning

483
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:20,079
commission by the neighbor on July 1st.
In their documentation, the appellant

484
00:38:18,079 --> 00:38:25,200
contends that the proposed second story
addition would adversely affect the

485
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:29,920
privacy of their rear yard and pool area
and result in visual impacts to their

486
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:33,040
property. Uh following the filing of the
appeal, the applicant submitted a

487
00:38:31,359 --> 00:38:37,760
written response addressing the issues
which is included um with your staff

488
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:41,680
report and to that an additional letter
from the appellant uh responding to the

489
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:46,320
applicant's letter is also included with
your staff report. Um this was a brief

490
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,079
discussion but the complete discussion
of the appeal is also included in your

491
00:38:48,079 --> 00:38:52,880
staff report. So based on the reasons
provided in your report, it is

492
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,760
recommended that the planning commission
deny the appeal of the community

493
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,680
development director's decision
approving uh the minor residential

494
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:03,040
development application. Uh this
concludes staff's presentation and we

495
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:07,359
are available to answer any questions.
>> Thank you, Mr. Mullen. Are there any

496
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:12,079
questions of staff?
Right. None. Commissioner Sordy,

497
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:17,520
» I just had a couple questions about
setbacks. I think this is an R120 zoning

498
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:22,880
district, right? Which is larger lots
and um I didn't see it in the staff

499
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:29,200
report. Um what is the minimum sideyard
setback in R120?

500
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:31,440
» But believe that's 15 ft. I'd have to
double check, but if you give me one

501
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:37,119
second, I'll check for you.
>> Okay. Um

502
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:40,079
does it apply to pools and decks?
>> Um that's a good question. No, it

503
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:44,079
doesn't apply to pools. Pools have their
own um setbacks and pool equipment have

504
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:49,760
their own setbacks. Those can definitely
project into a 15t setback on the rear

505
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:55,200
and and then decks. It really depends on
the height. Um it's I won't it gets a

506
00:39:52,960 --> 00:40:00,000
little bit complicated. Um but typically
decks can project a certain distance

507
00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:03,440
into required side and rear setbacks
depending on the height. So a deck

508
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:08,480
that's close to the ground can go
anywhere. Um once you get above I think

509
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:12,240
two feet it starts to pull back from the
side setbacks and above the above six

510
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,040
feet it's it pulls back more from the
setback

511
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:21,359
» and so the uh there's no setback that
pertains to the pool itself the the

512
00:40:18,079 --> 00:40:26,720
water line it's the same in other words
>> yeah there is a setback for pools um I

513
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:31,280
can look that up as well I believe it's
well I won't quote it um but and it's

514
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:37,359
measured from the coping line
>> okay but it's not the pool water line.

515
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:40,240
The pool itself wouldn't be need to be
outside the 15t setback. It could be it

516
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:45,839
could extend into it.
>> It could extend into it. It has um and

517
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:51,520
it's not zone specific. Uh it's just a
static distance from a property line.

518
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:54,560
» Right. Okay. Thank you.
>> Are there any further questions to

519
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:58,160
staff?
>> I'm going to ask a clarifying question

520
00:40:56,079 --> 00:41:04,960
because I feel like this goes back and
forth. Appellant then applicant.

521
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:08,880
Correct. Okay. and then closing with a
applicant then appellant.

522
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:13,079
» Thank you. All right. So then I will
call um Dale Drum.

523
00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:30,160
» Uh good evening. My address is 697 Bnell
Road. Um I know you've seen all the

524
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:37,760
documentation. Hopefully you've read it
there. Um, my biggest concern is the

525
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:42,880
second story. Um, although it's 15 feet,
maybe a little bit more back with a

526
00:41:40,319 --> 00:41:49,599
setback, it's still towering over our
backyard. And I've met with them and I

527
00:41:46,240 --> 00:41:55,040
thought the best thing to be um would
have the second story set back a minimum

528
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:59,359
of five feet. I was a real estate
developer. I've built homes in Lascatus,

529
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:04,560
Saratoga,
um Campbell. Um it was very typical even

530
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:10,000
here in Lascatus and it's even your
design guidelines when you're building

531
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:14,960
next to a residential neighbor. The best
thing on a second story uh addition to

532
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:20,400
break up the mass would be to set it
back 5 ft. So that's what I'm

533
00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:25,280
requesting. I'm not having any hassles
with how large their building is or

534
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:30,240
anything um that they are building
there. Um but my biggest concern is that

535
00:42:28,079 --> 00:42:35,839
when we come out of our backyard is
going to be towering over everything we

536
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:40,480
have. It doesn't just affect me down
from me because the road curves. My

537
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:45,359
other neighbors are affected. And I
believe you got a letter also from my

538
00:42:42,319 --> 00:42:51,680
adjacent neighbor at 100 Smith Creek
that also was concerned about looking

539
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:57,760
over and see the big flat stuckle wall.
So what I'd like to see the commission

540
00:42:53,760 --> 00:43:02,480
do was follow the guidelines and see if
you can't have the second story set back

541
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:06,800
5T. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Are there any questions for

542
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:12,000
the speaker? Commissioner Stump.
So then it's no longer a privacy issue

543
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:17,599
for you. It's more of a sight issue.
>> It's both. Um it's privacy in that it

544
00:43:15,520 --> 00:43:21,599
would be towering over the top of us.
When we're in our pool, we're going to

545
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:28,160
be looking up, if you can imagine, 22
feet in the air to their structure. Um

546
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:33,280
there's a photo that I brought you. If
you look at that where you see the red

547
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:38,800
line right now, that's where the setback
is. So that's where the current single

548
00:43:35,359 --> 00:43:45,760
story is. That whole entire second story
portion is going to move forward to that

549
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:50,520
red line and go up straight up.
So, it's going to be towering over my

550
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,520
property.

551
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:57,800
» Commissioners had a chance to take a
look at what we were given.

552
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:05,119
» Okay. Mr. Stump, you had a follow-up.
>> Yeah. on the privacy aspect as I recall

553
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:09,040
in here that they were proposing to put
up a trellis that would

554
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:12,400
» they have a large deck across the back
and they were proposing to put a trellis

555
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:16,640
on the front of it so that we couldn't
see people walking on the deck. That was

556
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:20,800
nothing I asked for, something that they
decided to do.

557
00:44:18,240 --> 00:44:25,839
» Originally, originally they had the deck
all the way to the setback line and the

558
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:31,440
stairs going down in the setback. So
after some discussions, they removed the

559
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:35,520
stairs, they pushed the uh deck back a
little bit, and then now they've added

560
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:39,920
the trellis. There is a trellis on the
structure. We'll never see it because of

561
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,560
the neighbor fence that's between us.
It's too low.

562
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:45,680
» So then the trellis from your
perspective provides no benefit to you.

563
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:51,280
Privacy,
>> nothing at all.

564
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:56,079
» Any other questions,
Mr. Sordy? So in that handout that you

565
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:59,760
gave us, I think there's a red line.
>> That red line shows where the current

566
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:04,880
single story comes down. That's at the
setback line. And then if you envision

567
00:45:02,319 --> 00:45:10,160
that back section of the twotory is all
going to move forward to that red line.

568
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:17,280
» Well, when you say move forward to the
red line, it's not really in plan view.

569
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:21,040
It's move. Yeah,
>> I'm still confused about what it's

570
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:25,839
showing us. Well, if you envision that
picture, just take that back portion and

571
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,640
bring it all the way forward. I'm not an
architect, so I can draw that up.

572
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,359
» I guess I see what you're saying now.
Just

573
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:33,280
» But that's where it's going to be.
>> Yeah.

574
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:37,040
» And then it's going to look like the
pages attached.

575
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:42,720
So, there's my version of what it would
look like. I drew up a design uh what I

576
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:47,200
would love to see it look like,
>> and then they have their design. Another

577
00:45:45,359 --> 00:45:51,440
question in my notes. I I thought I had
written down that you had asked in pre u

578
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:54,880
prior correspondence with the applicant
that it be moved back three feet and

579
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:59,599
then now you're asking for five foot.
>> Well, that's what you're the if we go by

580
00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:04,160
the town's guideline it's five. In my
past everything has been five and then

581
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:10,440
originally I talked to them I said it
could be two to three but the farther

582
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,440
back it is the better.

583
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:18,400
» Okay. Thanks.
Any further questions? Um, so I would

584
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:22,880
like to ask you a little bit about the
engagement.

585
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:27,839
Were you notified earlier on? Were you
at any meeting or did somebody come and

586
00:46:25,839 --> 00:46:30,240
speak to you about the project or in
reading your letters, I was just trying

587
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,640
to come up with that sort of the
timeline?

588
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,800
» Yes. When they put the sign up on their
property, that was the first time I knew

589
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:40,960
that they were going to build this
addition. So then I went online and was

590
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:44,560
able to look at the drawings that the
city had online.

591
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,560
And following that, were you able to
have

592
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:50,400
» Following that, we got together and
talked to them and that's when we got

593
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:56,319
the first email that I sent to them
after looking at the plans asking them,

594
00:46:52,880 --> 00:47:00,480
these are the things that I don't like.
>> Were there any follow-ups after that or?

595
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:04,720
» Yeah, we've talked several times about
what changes we could make and that's

596
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,640
how it came into uh the deck being
pushed back and the stairs and a few

597
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:12,800
things, but nothing on the massing of
the structure. So they have have they

598
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:17,200
seen this proposed?
>> I sent that to them as an email. So I

599
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:21,599
attached the email on one of my letters.
It's exactly what I sent him was a quick

600
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:23,680
sketch I did in five minutes and said
this is what I'd like to see it look

601
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:28,079
like.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you. That helps.

602
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:32,880
Any further questions? All right. Thank
you.

603
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:39,040
So I will now call the applicant
Marjorie Eddington

604
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:42,000
or Mr. Edington.
Oh,

605
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:46,960
» I'm the Hi, good evening. I'm the
designer of the project. I've been

606
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:51,119
working with the homeowners and with all
of the the decisions to make all of the

607
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:55,920
support changes possible to supply
anything we can do to supply for the

608
00:47:53,520 --> 00:48:00,640
neighbors. Worked extensively with Sean.
I'm in my 21st year of doing

609
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:05,520
architectural designs. I've had several
council meetings as well. In my 21 years

610
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:11,599
of doing this in service, I have never
had a client so apt to try to please

611
00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:15,359
their neighborhood ever. So, I just
really want you to understand that we

612
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:19,680
have been trying. We've had five
different design changes. We've uh one

613
00:48:18,319 --> 00:48:25,200
of the things that they have, as you
mentioned, being a 20 lot um zone, it is

614
00:48:23,359 --> 00:48:28,319
a very large lot. The rear yard does
have a tennis court. They do have a

615
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:34,240
swimming pool on the opposite side of
Dale. They do have a trampoline. It is a

616
00:48:31,359 --> 00:48:39,760
sloped hill. To be accurate, the
addition is 17 1/2 ft away from the

617
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:43,440
property line. In addition, we did a
light study. We showed that in two

618
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:47,520
different seasons of time and two
different times, the shade from this

619
00:48:45,359 --> 00:48:51,680
addition will not encroach on the
neighborhood and the neighbor for Dale.

620
00:48:49,839 --> 00:48:57,119
We have then immediately tried to
accommodate by having trees put in. We

621
00:48:54,400 --> 00:49:01,839
hired an arborist to rely to look into a
possible tree to give more shade and

622
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:05,839
more support for privacy. In doing so,
we found that there's a tremendous

623
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:09,599
amount of aqueduct and drainage that
goes right down the middle of that side

624
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:14,400
and the fence for the hillside and water
drainage. So, no trees are really

625
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:18,720
applicable. However, we also then moved
windows higher. That bedroom that's

626
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:23,440
going to be moved is a bedroom. It is
not a playroom or an an access room.

627
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:27,280
that would be something that would be
looking down during the day of the play.

628
00:49:25,119 --> 00:49:31,200
It is a bedroom. So in in in helping
them, we also raised and minimized the

629
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,000
windows so we could have light and
ventilation in the bedroom, but we made

630
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:38,400
them so that they were higher than
height level so view in from that room

631
00:49:36,319 --> 00:49:43,680
would not encroach on the neighbor as
well. We then looked into moving the

632
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:49,119
addition further back. What happens is
is due to the construction of making

633
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:53,760
that addition, we need to extensively
spend more money to reassure the house

634
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:57,280
because because there is already a
second addition already. There's already

635
00:49:55,440 --> 00:50:02,559
a second story there, but making it all
the way to the perimeter helps cost for

636
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:07,680
the down to the foundation. So, we're
we're looking at trying to tell the

637
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:11,440
neighborhood as well as you that we have
done almost everything possible. We do

638
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:15,520
meet the guidelines. One of the things
that Dale talks about not meeting the

639
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:18,960
guidelines is regarding to the front and
our front elevation meets all the

640
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:24,559
guidelines. We meet all of your
architectural reviews. We meet all of

641
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:28,720
the FRA zonings and limitations and
square footage maximums for this

642
00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:31,839
project. We kindly hope that you'll
decide to let this do this project.

643
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:36,520
Thank you.
>> Thank you. Are there any questions for

644
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:36,520
the speaker?

645
00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:45,280
» Did you have a question? Sorry. Okay.
Okay. Um, I don't think they do. I I do.

646
00:50:42,240 --> 00:50:50,079
So, I want to clarify. Um, just so I'm
clear, I'm looking on sheet A4

647
00:50:48,319 --> 00:50:54,000
» where it has the second story,
>> the floor plan.

648
00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:58,800
» Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um, so if I was
measuring off the edge of the addition

649
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:02,240
off the bedroom to your property line,
you I think you said 17 and 1/2 ft, but

650
00:51:01,119 --> 00:51:05,119
I want to make sure I got that right.
>> Yeah, you could look on sheet A1, the

651
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:11,559
site plan. It'll have the actual
dimension.

652
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:11,559
» I just have to make it really big. Yeah.

653
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:24,079
» Okay.
Thank you. That actually answers what I

654
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:26,800
needed. There any further questions?
>> Okay,

655
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:31,040
Commissioner Shorty.
>> 17 foot 7 in.

656
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:37,359
» I had a question. may end up being for
staff. But um so what was the impetus

657
00:51:34,079 --> 00:51:41,520
behind engaging Jeremy Khan
um who I think is listed as the town

658
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:45,680
arborist, but then at in the email it
says

659
00:51:43,119 --> 00:51:48,800
um fire department planner 5, something
like that. I was just curious to know

660
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:51,040
who engaged that person and was that
part of town review or is it the

661
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:56,240
applicant or
>> So I can answer part of that question.

662
00:51:52,800 --> 00:52:00,559
Um the town arborist, the acting town
arborist is a consultant firm um that

663
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:05,839
has a number of arborists and different
professionals on staff. Um Jeremy is I

664
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:10,079
think I got his name right. Um that's
his title, but he's a certified arborist

665
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:13,599
is my understanding. And the applicant
or yeah the applicant may be able to

666
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:17,359
answer why they engaged them, why they
initiated that.

667
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:22,400
» You want do you want to hear
>> this is so wait just to clarify from

668
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:24,880
staff. So that that is an employee of a
consulting firm that serves as a town

669
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,040
arborist.
>> Currently they serve as the town

670
00:52:26,079 --> 00:52:30,559
arborist. Yes.
>> Okay. Got it.

671
00:52:29,359 --> 00:52:34,000
Okay. Thanks.
>> So we called the town arborist because

672
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:39,599
we wanted to because of the privacy
issue and to try to break up a flat

673
00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:44,240
wall. We wanted to put the um trees
there and they wanted us to put it

674
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:49,440
closer to our property to the new
addition but we have a drainage system

675
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:53,119
there. So, we contacted Jeremy and he
said, "Oh, well, you can't put it

676
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:55,920
there." And he said, "Because of the
other trees and there's no room." So,

677
00:52:54,720 --> 00:53:00,960
then I said, "Well, we could go ahead
and put vines. I'm happy to do whatever

678
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:04,880
we can in that 4ft planter." I suggested
tall trees and they said, "Well, we

679
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:08,960
don't want the trees to be too tall."
So, I don't know how then to break that

680
00:53:07,119 --> 00:53:15,200
up. So, then we there was a thing. There
was trelluses. We have a trellis that

681
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:19,599
provides um privacy on the balcony and
then we have trelluses on the first

682
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:24,960
story above the sliding glass door in
the window to break up the flat wall

683
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:28,319
which was in the town guideline. So I
asked if they would be able to see them

684
00:53:26,559 --> 00:53:31,760
and he said yes we would be able to see
them because they have a raised living

685
00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:36,960
room. Otherwise we would not have put in
the trelluses on the lower story. I

686
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:40,880
would have been happy to put in um some
of those ornamental like Juliet

687
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:47,920
balconies or whatever they might be up
there as well. Um so I'd be happy to put

688
00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:52,400
in those, but we did ask Jeremy for
advice because we wanted to do what was

689
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:57,359
appropriate for the town and to try to
help the neighbor and we don't want

690
00:53:54,079 --> 00:54:02,559
anything that will fall into his pool.
>> Okay. Do you have any further questions?

691
00:53:59,839 --> 00:54:06,079
I do. Um Oh, sorry. Do you have one,
Commissioner Mayor? Yeah, I just sorry a

692
00:54:04,559 --> 00:54:10,880
clarifying question uh for the applicant
and the designer. Um can you uh repeat

693
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:14,400
again how far is the second story wall
away from the property line?

694
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:19,119
» 17' 7 in.
>> 17 foot 7 in. Thank you.

695
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:22,880
» So, um I I just want to clarify some of
the conversations then that you've had

696
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:26,880
to sort of understand, you know, there's
a concern about privacy. Sounds like

697
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:30,400
you've guys have been, you know, making
concessions where you have. Sounds like

698
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:36,960
you spoke to an arborist about potential
trees or vines. Have you been able to

699
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:41,920
land on a solution that you you think
will help provide that screening on his

700
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:45,359
side while you are able to maintain your
design?

701
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:49,839
I would have to take one more step with
the arborist because he said there were

702
00:54:47,359 --> 00:54:55,200
no trees. He just thought vines could go
in the forefoot. I was so no because he

703
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:59,440
said the flat the drum said the the
trees were not a concern. It was the

704
00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:05,359
flat wall. So, I'm not I'm at a I'm
stuck as to I'm happy to do trees that

705
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:08,880
we can plant in a 4 foot raised bed next
to the fence. I'm happy to do that. I

706
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:16,240
don't know if there's trees that will
run into the drainage system. I'm happy

707
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:19,359
to put in vines that can climb as tall
as possible.

708
00:55:17,200 --> 00:55:26,119
» Okay. All right. Great. Thank you very
much. Any further questions? All right.

709
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,119
Thank you.

710
00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:32,839
So at this time, do we have any speakers
on Zoom?

711
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:42,000
» There are no hands raised on Zoom.
>> Okay. I don't have any further cards,

712
00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:46,880
which usually means now
the appellent can No. God knew I was

713
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:51,680
going to do that. You get an opportunity
to say anything further if you would

714
00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:55,720
like.
I know. I tried. I'm sorry.

715
00:55:57,599 --> 00:56:03,119
We have wanted to do this project since
we first bought the house and life

716
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:07,520
happens and now we have the funds and so
asking us to pull it back another 5T

717
00:56:05,520 --> 00:56:13,040
would be difficult to do because of the
structural concerns. Um I did just as

718
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:16,240
far as talking with them as soon as the
town said that we needed to talk to them

719
00:56:14,799 --> 00:56:20,559
we went out of our way to talk with
them. Um I did not know that in a

720
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:24,960
backyard edition I would have to do
that. So, please forgive my naivity, but

721
00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:28,720
I have done everything, my husband and I
have done everything that we can short

722
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:34,559
of
bringing that wall back. We also had

723
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:39,200
another option that we tried, which was,
well, what if we attach, you know, make

724
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:44,799
it look Dale suggested we could keep the
first story roof line coming down and we

725
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:48,880
talked to our architect and our
contractor and they said that would be

726
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:54,640
cost prohibitive as well. So, we tried
both designs to do that. Um, I don't

727
00:56:52,640 --> 00:57:00,160
want to look over their yard, which is
why we have their privacy trellis up

728
00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:04,640
there. I I don't want to do that at all.
Um,

729
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:09,440
and the neighbor next to them, we can't
see them from our yard, so I'm not quite

730
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:17,680
sure how they can see us, but that's
okay. um the one on 100 Smith Creek who

731
00:57:13,599 --> 00:57:22,319
also has a flat wall and a lot of people
have flat walls. So we really would love

732
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:27,520
to go forward with the project. We have
our contractor been waiting for a long

733
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:31,920
time. We have been waiting for a long
time and we feel we have gone out of our

734
00:57:29,359 --> 00:57:38,079
way to do almost everything while still
maintaining the integrity of what we

735
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:42,480
would like for our home and our family.
>> Thank you. Any final questions? All

736
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:47,040
right. Thank you. Oh, sorry,
Commissioner Sordy did. Sorry.

737
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:50,319
» Um, so just in reading the
correspondence, I think I I ended up in

738
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:53,040
my notes listing five things I think
that you've done, and I just want to

739
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,400
make sure they're still part of the
project. It says, number one, remove the

740
00:57:54,559 --> 00:57:58,799
entire set of exterior stairs from the
balcony to the ground.

741
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,960
» Yep.
>> Number two, shortened the rear balcony

742
00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:06,000
by 4T on both sides of the house to
decreasing the overall length and moving

743
00:58:04,559 --> 00:58:11,359
it away from their yard.
>> Yes. Um the third one was put in a

744
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:14,559
privacy lattice on the end side of the
balcony facing their property so we

745
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:16,799
cannot look down on their yard.
>> Yes.

746
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:22,400
» Fourth is we reduced the width of the
rear facing window closest to them um

747
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:27,040
which does not look toward them by 2
feet. So it is now on our side of the

748
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:30,480
privacy lattice. And then finally, um,
the fifth one made the windows on the

749
00:58:28,559 --> 00:58:35,920
southside facing them smaller, raising
them to be above head and eye level so

750
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:40,160
that they would not overlook their
property, but still have light and cross

751
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:42,720
breeze. Those are all still. I just want
to make sure those are all

752
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:46,480
» and we put in the those lower lower
trelluses. We don't need the lower

753
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:51,359
trelluses if they're not going to affect
them. Um, but we did put them in to help

754
00:58:49,200 --> 00:58:56,079
break up that look.
>> Okay. Thank you.

755
00:58:53,440 --> 00:59:02,839
Right. Any further questions? No. Thank
you very much. And now the appellant can

756
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,839
come back up.

757
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:18,480
Uh just want to say that one of the
reasons we're pushing for the second

758
00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:23,520
story setback is also because you just
heard from them. They cannot ever plant

759
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:28,240
a tree next to this thing. So, it's
going to always be one big flat stuckle

760
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:32,480
wall that I look at in planting
anything. Since we have a pool next to

761
00:59:30,079 --> 00:59:37,599
the fence, I really don't want something
someone planting a tree in that little

762
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:43,040
4ft area because all the roots are going
to end up damaging our pool. So, that's

763
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:47,920
one of the things the easiest way is to
set the building back resolves the

764
00:59:45,359 --> 00:59:53,200
massing makes it look better. You see a
little bit of roof line. It's always

765
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:58,160
been done in the past by me and by a lot
of the projects even in this city that

766
00:59:55,040 --> 01:00:02,480
we did in the past and I'm not sure why
it doesn't happen here. This is my wife.

767
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:08,000
She wants to add a few comments.
>> Hi Monique Drum. I just wanted to I

768
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:10,480
don't know if anybody realizes that um
Could you move a little bit closer to

769
01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:13,359
the microphone so we know they pick you
up? Thank you.

770
01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:19,200
» Sorry I'm not used to public speaking.
Um that the property in question is

771
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:25,040
relatively flat. it does raise up a
little bit. Our property, however, has a

772
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:30,799
very large hill that begins um I don't
know what is it like 20 ft 20 ft from

773
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:34,960
our um back door. And so we don't have
as much usable property. I mean that's

774
01:00:33,280 --> 01:00:38,079
why our pools on the side of the house.
We didn't put it there, but we bought it

775
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:44,000
that way and that's where the only place
it could really be. So, our gathering

776
01:00:40,240 --> 01:00:49,920
area is directly outside our back door
and it's about 15 feet to the where the

777
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:53,520
hill starts and then, you know, not even
the width of the property. I just want

778
01:00:51,839 --> 01:00:58,720
to point that out because it's it's
though the properties look really large,

779
01:00:55,119 --> 01:01:04,640
we don't have um as much accessibility
um to entertain or or use because of the

780
01:01:02,559 --> 01:01:09,920
giant hill in the backyard.
>> Our property is also 24,000

781
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:15,040
» be closer. Yeah, our property is also
24,000 square feet. It's just most of

782
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:19,040
our property is not usable. Halfway up
our property, we have a fence so our dog

783
01:01:17,119 --> 01:01:22,960
can be in there. The rest of it, just
like all of our neighbors, they're all

784
01:01:20,480 --> 01:01:28,000
halfacre lots. They're all open so the
deer and everything can roam through and

785
01:01:25,440 --> 01:01:33,359
not be hindered. Um, theirs is one of
the few properties that's flat and

786
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:36,720
theirs is fully fenced.
>> Thank you.

787
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:40,760
» Are there any questions?
>> No. Thank you very much.

788
01:01:42,799 --> 01:01:49,520
All right. I will now close the public
portion of the hearing for this item um

789
01:01:47,839 --> 01:01:56,359
and invite my fellow commissioners to
ask questions of staff or make a motion

790
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:56,359
so we can begin discussion.

791
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:13,599
Okay, Commissioner,
>> I'll make a motion. Uh, I'll make a

792
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:17,119
motion to uh deny the appeal of the
community development director's

793
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:21,920
decision to approve a request for
approval uh to construct a second story

794
01:02:19,440 --> 01:02:30,520
addition exceeding 100 square ft uh to
an existing single family residence on

795
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:30,520
property zoned R-120 PD APN 40703006

796
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:38,160
categorically exempt pursuant to the
California Environmental Quality Act

797
01:02:35,760 --> 01:02:42,480
section 15301
existing facilities ities. Uh, property

798
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:47,520
owners Ronald Eddington Jr. and
Marjgerie Eddington, applicant James

799
01:02:44,799 --> 01:02:52,720
Hec, appellent Dale Drum, project
planner Sean Mullen. I can make the

800
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:56,640
findings required finding for SQA. The
project is categorically exempt pursuant

801
01:02:54,720 --> 01:03:01,119
to the adopted guidelines for the
implementation of the California

802
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:05,839
Environmental Quality Act section 15301
existing facilities. Uh, required

803
01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:10,319
compliance with the zoning regulations.
The project meets the objective

804
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:13,440
standards of chapter 29 of the town code
and I can make the finding required

805
01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:17,520
compliance with the residential design
guidelines. The project is in compliance

806
01:03:15,359 --> 01:03:22,799
with the residential design guidelines
for single family residences not located

807
01:03:19,760 --> 01:03:27,200
in hillside areas.
>> Thank you commissioner. Is there a

808
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:29,760
second? Commissioner Bernett
second that.

809
01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:35,559
» All right. Thank you. Is there any
discussion or does anyone want to make

810
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:35,559
an alternative motion?

811
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:43,200
I'll begin discussion. I'm going to
support the motion. I do think that the

812
01:03:41,039 --> 01:03:49,039
applicants have done a lot of work to
address issues um that have come up

813
01:03:47,039 --> 01:03:53,680
particularly around privacy. Sounds like
there's been a number of changes made.

814
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:59,359
Um I'm sure that they could work on
something like Ivy to break up a a wall

815
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:03,200
or something like that, but um I feel
ultimately it's a nice design. um lines

816
01:04:02,079 --> 01:04:09,280
up well with interest of the
neighborhood. Any other comments or

817
01:04:08,240 --> 01:04:13,920
Mr. Sorty?
>> I'll just make a quick comment. I do

818
01:04:11,119 --> 01:04:17,599
think that the um the applicant has made
considerable effort. Um one of the

819
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:22,640
things that's compelling to me is that
there's the difference in grade and I

820
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:27,280
think the subject property is above um
and I understand that. But given the

821
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:31,599
proximity of the addition and um the
addition of privacy lattice, I do see

822
01:04:29,039 --> 01:04:36,000
that as potentially screening the view
um it certainly isn't going to remove

823
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:40,640
visibility of the whole addition in the
entire bulk and mass. But I think it it

824
01:04:37,839 --> 01:04:44,640
definitely given the lower grade to
upper grade and the proximity of the

825
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:49,760
pool area to the addition. I think it is
going to go part of the way toward

826
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:52,640
screening the view. So I think that um
that helps a lot and I'm going to

827
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:56,160
support the motion.
>> All right. Thank you. There are no

828
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,960
further commissioner Mayor.
>> Yeah, I'll just make a couple comments.

829
01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:05,599
I agree it's a I think it's a tasteful
addition. Uh well executed. Um it's

830
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:10,640
beyond the setback by a couple feet. Uh
you did everything right with regard to

831
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:16,880
being considerate about privacy with the
clear story windows and the lattice on

832
01:05:12,559 --> 01:05:20,000
the deck. So um usually when there are
privacy issues, those are the sort of

833
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:25,280
strategies that we recommend and you've
already implemented them. So, thank you.

834
01:05:23,440 --> 01:05:30,000
» Right. There's no further discussion. I
will call the question. All in favor?

835
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,799
Passes unanimously.
Are there any appeal rights for this

836
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:35,440
item?
>> Yes. Thank you. The decision of the

837
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:41,920
planning commission can be appealed to
the town council by any interested

838
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:47,039
person as defined by section 29.10.020
within 10 days on forms available online

839
01:05:44,559 --> 01:05:52,480
with fees paid. The appeal is due by 100
p.m. on the final day if it is a Friday.

840
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:55,680
All right. Thank you. Um, if it's okay
with you guys, can we take a three

841
01:05:53,839 --> 01:06:00,760
minute break?
All right. We're going to take a very

842
01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,760
quick break. Thank you.

843
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:24,960
Step

844
01:10:50,719 --> 01:10:58,719
All right. Thank you everybody. Call the
uh meeting back to order. So we are now

845
01:10:56,159 --> 01:11:02,239
going to move on to other business.
Discuss the town council's direction on

846
01:11:00,719 --> 01:11:06,480
the work plan for the historic
preservation committee and the

847
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:12,560
evaluation process used to determine the
significance of pre-1941 residences. The

848
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:16,800
planning commission's discussion is not
considered a project under the adopted

849
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:22,159
guidelines for the implementation of the
California Environmental Quality Act.

850
01:11:19,440 --> 01:11:28,640
And Mr. Mullen, will you be giving us
the report on this?

851
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:33,199
Yes, thank you. On December 2nd, 2025,
the uh town council provided direction

852
01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:37,440
to staff to evaluate the level of effort
and feasibility of the following items

853
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:41,760
related to historic preservation in the
town. preserving small homes, reviewing

854
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:46,400
the boundaries of the historic
districts, refreshing the Bloomfield

855
01:11:44,239 --> 01:11:51,679
survey, considering replacement
structures, um historically relevant,

856
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:56,880
adopting pre41,
uh to 70-year rolling, uh dates, and

857
01:11:54,960 --> 01:12:01,840
updating and clarifying definitions and
required findings for determining

858
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:06,640
historic status. The council asked staff
to return after the objective design

859
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:11,520
standards update for multifamily and
mixeduse residential projects was sub

860
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:15,520
substantially completed. Um this process
is still going on and going to the

861
01:12:13,199 --> 01:12:19,679
council on September 1st um for
consideration.

862
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:24,080
As such, staff has not begun to evaluate
council's direction regarding historic

863
01:12:21,440 --> 01:12:26,960
preservation. On February 25th of this
year, the planning commission chair

864
01:12:25,199 --> 01:12:31,280
requested that an item be added to an
agenda for a discussion of the council's

865
01:12:28,719 --> 01:12:35,440
direction and evaluation process used to
determine the historic significance of

866
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:39,360
pre-41 structures. For the benefit of
the public, I'll remind folks that this

867
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:42,719
is a discussion and uh item only and no
action will be taken this evening, nor

868
01:12:40,960 --> 01:12:45,679
direction provided to staff as we're
waiting for council's direction. But

869
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:49,760
your discussion this evening, the
minutes of this uh and the video will be

870
01:12:47,440 --> 01:12:55,760
ava made available to the council when
staff returns to council um with our

871
01:12:52,159 --> 01:12:59,840
evaluation of these uh the the work
needs for these items. Um staff's

872
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:03,679
available to support your discussion and
we'll try and have some uh visual

873
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:08,239
presentations to help guide that.
>> All right. Thank you. Are there any

874
01:13:05,679 --> 01:13:13,040
questions of staff at this time? All
right.

875
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:18,960
And I have two cards. David Zikovich.
Did I say that right? I didn't think I

876
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:22,159
would. I'm sorry. I know. You know, by
now you should know to put the phonetic

877
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:25,280
for me every time.
>> By now you should know me.

878
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:27,920
» It's good. That was a great comeback.
Thank you.

879
01:13:26,239 --> 01:13:31,440
» Okay. I I'm just here to hear what you
guys have to say tonight and kind of

880
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:36,320
curious why you guys don't sit down here
with a whole bunch of architects and

881
01:13:32,960 --> 01:13:39,520
builders and review the feasibility of
the things that you're trying to come up

882
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:42,560
with.
Any questions?

883
01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:52,239
I don't Anyone have any questions? No.
Okay. Sorry. Commissioner Sto.

884
01:13:50,080 --> 01:13:55,760
» Well, I think you anticipated one of the
things I was going to be talking about

885
01:13:53,679 --> 01:14:01,120
tonight, which is including that group
of people. And you know, I we do include

886
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:07,040
um people in those conversations. But in
my from my standpoint, it is critically

887
01:14:04,159 --> 01:14:13,679
important that we include voices like we
got something from um Bess Weisma uh

888
01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:17,360
back in June. And I thought what was
written was, you know, incredibly

889
01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:22,000
important and things that we need to
make sure we're taking into account. And

890
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:26,480
so I believe that, you know, that is
absolutely got to be a part of the

891
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:28,640
process.
>> A majority [clears throat]

892
01:14:27,360 --> 01:14:33,360
» there wasn't a question in there, but
you can just say hooray. Yay. Well done.

893
01:14:31,600 --> 01:14:39,280
Uh, the majority of the work,
architecture and construction, is done

894
01:14:36,000 --> 01:14:44,800
by maybe 10 builders and 10 architects
that work in town all the time. Probably

895
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:47,520
check in with Sean on that one. Um, so I
just don't know why you wouldn't get

896
01:14:45,760 --> 01:14:50,920
their input on on what it is you guys
are trying to achieve.

897
01:14:51,040 --> 01:14:55,120
» Right. Any further questions of the
speaker? No.

898
01:14:54,480 --> 01:15:00,520
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

899
01:14:56,000 --> 01:15:00,520
» And the next card is Vesma.

900
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:15,840
Um, good evening, commissioners. I know
I know several of you from many years of

901
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:20,560
doing houses um, in town and I
appreciate the opportunity to kind of

902
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:24,880
just speak on this subject. Um, again,
as a local residential architect that

903
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:29,840
does a lot of projects in historical
districts and immediately adjacent

904
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:34,560
historical districts, um, this is a
really passionate topic for me and, uh,

905
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:40,159
I know that some of you know how
passionate I am about it. Um, part of it

906
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:45,440
is a personal passion. Um, I love what I
do and I love working in this town and

907
01:15:42,239 --> 01:15:49,679
part of it is my job as an architect to
advocate for my clients. And sometimes

908
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:55,520
that means I have to get passionate
about what I present and do. Um, I

909
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:59,199
wanted to just reiterate some of the
things that I said in the letter and I'm

910
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:06,640
not going to kind of go into it, but I I
do really want uh there to be very

911
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:12,159
specific um guidelines for you guys to
tell the town on how to incorporate um

912
01:16:09,679 --> 01:16:16,480
local architects and builders. I think
we all talk about that we want to be

913
01:16:14,159 --> 01:16:20,080
included. I think that often we hear,
"Hey, we reached out or you should be

914
01:16:18,159 --> 01:16:25,360
included or we said we would include
you, but the way in which we're included

915
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:31,120
or participate is not always um creating
anything that facilitates positive uh

916
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:35,760
conversation nor results. Um it's very
hard for us when we are noticed at a

917
01:16:33,440 --> 01:16:39,760
last minute. We all run businesses, um,
small businesses, um, and so we'd like a

918
01:16:38,719 --> 01:16:42,640
little more notice and we'd like a
little more time and we'd like some,

919
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:47,440
we'd like some opportunity to maybe talk
about it in several different, uh,

920
01:16:44,719 --> 01:16:51,440
meeting times, maybe not just one. Um
the recent thing that a lot of us

921
01:16:48,880 --> 01:16:56,320
participated in related to uh some of
the new housing mandates where there was

922
01:16:53,280 --> 01:17:01,280
a a company that was hired to facilitate
these uh Zoombased things was um frankly

923
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:05,920
very impersonal and a lot of the
questions uh were not really appropriate

924
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:10,480
necessarily for single family residents
compared to uh multif family. However,

925
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:14,880
there's been a lot of chatter about uh
infiltrating of some design guidelines

926
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:19,520
kind of getting cherrypicked and put in
maybe new or future design guidelines. I

927
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:24,800
think you even heard tonight um there
are design guidelines that uh

928
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:30,080
frankly aren't great or updated design
guidelines, not just uh aesthetically um

929
01:17:27,360 --> 01:17:35,679
but also neighbor neighborhood specific.
Um and and then most recently uh we now

930
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:39,280
have fire uh that is weighing in with
new rules. Half of what you guys talked

931
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:42,400
about tonight I couldn't get set I
couldn't get through on a set of plans

932
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:46,239
and that's a code that's not a
guideline. So we can talk about things

933
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:50,080
that are aesthetic and pretty and nice
to haves but if they don't work with how

934
01:17:48,239 --> 01:17:54,320
we actually have to build things today
either with materials or distances and

935
01:17:52,560 --> 01:17:58,560
I'm not just talking fire. I'm talking
about best practices in building then

936
01:17:56,480 --> 01:18:03,199
the guidelines are impossible and we're
we're we're mincing words. Um, I would

937
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:06,159
like to say there are some resources
that I would like you guys to ask me

938
01:18:04,800 --> 01:18:09,600
about that I think the town could take
advantage of and I'm happy to help with

939
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:14,439
any grants to make those resources
available to the town

940
01:18:12,960 --> 01:18:16,880
because I didn't get to say everything.
[laughter]

941
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:21,920
» I Well, I I have a question. I would
like for you to talk about some of those

942
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:26,400
resources that you referenced in your
>> Okay. Um I think when we go about uh

943
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,520
making new guidelines and new standards
especially for historical things some of

944
01:18:28,080 --> 01:18:36,080
the things that I put in my letter
referencing um both national and state

945
01:18:32,880 --> 01:18:40,320
standards are uh are certainly guide are
certainly guidelines and yes indeed some

946
01:18:37,920 --> 01:18:46,960
of that language that we have built into
our own uh historic um code uh or or um

947
01:18:44,960 --> 01:18:50,800
definitions. What we haven't built into
them and what we haven't done is we have

948
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:55,840
not educated our historic committee that
makes decisions on how to interpret

949
01:18:53,520 --> 01:19:00,640
those and we have a bunch of laymen
doing it. So things become subjective.

950
01:18:58,480 --> 01:19:06,400
Uh there are training programs out
there, seminars, workshops etc. Um there

951
01:19:03,760 --> 01:19:10,320
is a uh company called the or an
organization called the California

952
01:19:08,159 --> 01:19:15,840
Preservation Foundation which
specifically deals with educating towns,

953
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:22,640
people, foundations, etc.
um with um opportunities around how to

954
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:27,600
uh write guidelines, how to um set up uh
best practices in their town. In fact,

955
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:31,600
um, some of their workshops that they
just have going on, uh, are things like

956
01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:35,840
historic review ordinance and districts,
a three-part public practitioner and

957
01:19:33,440 --> 01:19:39,520
local government training, historic
districts explained, understanding

958
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:44,719
designations, diversity in current
challenging times, preservation boot

959
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:49,600
camp, objective design standards in
historic context, balancing housing and

960
01:19:47,679 --> 01:19:54,640
preservation, policies, case studies,
and strategies. These are just some of

961
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:58,480
the simple workshops that are out there
that are that are taught by people who

962
01:19:56,640 --> 01:20:04,239
are professionals that might help to
create a platform for less subjective

963
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:10,480
understanding and interpretation of of
our um of our our guidelines. Um there

964
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:15,280
is so that's California Preservation
Foundation. There's also the um

965
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:20,400
California State Office of Historic
Preservation or OP

966
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:25,760
whose entire program is to offer
assistance in grant-based education

967
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:29,679
to integrate historic preservation into
the broader context of overall community

968
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:33,840
planning and development activities by
adopting a comprehensive approach to

969
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:37,520
preservation planning which combines
identification, evaluation, and

970
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:42,159
registration of true historical
resources with strong local planning

971
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:47,360
powers, economic incentive ives and
informed policy. These are things that

972
01:20:45,120 --> 01:20:51,360
are just available in our own state.
Available in our own town is an entire

973
01:20:49,440 --> 01:20:57,679
collection of architects and builders
who know about all this, who want to

974
01:20:53,440 --> 01:21:03,040
help these kinds of things. And having
guidelines and interpretations and

975
01:21:00,239 --> 01:21:07,600
definitions that are consistent
and and actually have integrity in how

976
01:21:05,440 --> 01:21:13,520
they are made actually makes my job
better. a large part of and makes better

977
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:17,760
projects. I mean, I
I think you you can see the difference

978
01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:23,360
in projects that we saw tonight that
might actually check the box on they've

979
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:27,600
met a design guideline.
In my opinion, they're not good design,

980
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:33,280
but they've checked a box on it because
we've decided that we've interpreted

981
01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:39,360
literally a guideline. We haven't
actually made an educated

982
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:43,520
um understanding of the intent of it.
>> Okay. I need to see if anyone else has

983
01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:47,040
any questions. Commissioner Shorty,
>> I was just going to ask if you could

984
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:50,960
submit that list of resources to staff
and they could disseminate it to us.

985
01:21:48,480 --> 01:21:56,000
That would be great. Thank you.
>> And I I mean I would like to say I'm

986
01:21:52,800 --> 01:21:59,520
happy to help get this integrated into
how we do it. I I mean and I know there

987
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:01,280
are several other architects that would
too. I'm really

988
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:03,199
» I have to let everybody ask their
questions. Don't go anywhere. There's

989
01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:04,239
more.
>> Yes, sir.

990
01:22:03,600 --> 01:22:08,080
» Bernett.
>> So, just to put your mind at ease, I've

991
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:14,480
been on the historic preservation
committee for 13 years and I've attended

992
01:22:10,719 --> 01:22:18,719
many, many uh seminars down in Pasadena
and all over. I've been very involved

993
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:22,239
with it. So, just to put your mind at
ease that there are probably some people

994
01:22:20,239 --> 01:22:28,080
on the historic preservation committee
that aren't just layman. I think the

995
01:22:25,199 --> 01:22:33,199
biggest issue with our uh what we're
having now the issues we're having is

996
01:22:30,480 --> 01:22:37,520
with our findings and I think the reason
and we do follow chapter 15 of the

997
01:22:36,000 --> 01:22:42,800
national
uh you know the preservation it we just

998
01:22:41,120 --> 01:22:48,239
have gone about it in a different way.
Our issue and I think either Joel or

999
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:54,000
Sean can speak to it is that it's not in
code and that is where we get into

1000
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:58,960
trouble because I think we actually do
follow what you want us to follow but

1001
01:22:56,480 --> 01:23:03,520
Lascatus does it in a different way and
what has hindered us is that it's not in

1002
01:23:01,120 --> 01:23:08,400
a code form and I think that's what
we're probably working on. I've

1003
01:23:05,679 --> 01:23:14,320
discussed it with Sean and Joel. So,
that might put your mind at ease that we

1004
01:23:10,639 --> 01:23:19,840
are um addressing what your concerns
are. And there's just um you know, I

1005
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:26,080
think that's what this whole thing is
about. And as far as you've mentioned

1006
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:32,320
many times, the windshield drivebys,
well, that was actually done by

1007
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:36,239
historians was an initial look and then
just tonight at the historic

1008
01:23:34,159 --> 01:23:42,560
preservation committee, there was a home
on Magnus Loop that had driveby

1009
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:48,000
initially, but it was given a double
plus rating by Bloomfield herself. And

1010
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:53,679
then you followed through then with a
much more indepth

1011
01:23:50,159 --> 01:23:58,560
uh survey of the home, ratings of the
home, and and how it eventually ended up

1012
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:04,320
that it would appear it was for the
National Register. So, we just didn't do

1013
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:09,280
drivebys, though that was in general.
And then we went into more depth if it

1014
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:17,199
looked like that home did have qualities
that should be looked into more deeply.

1015
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:22,320
So my question is I hope that that might
give you some uh

1016
01:24:20,719 --> 01:24:28,080
uh
strength or some uh feeling that you

1017
01:24:25,440 --> 01:24:33,920
that the historic preservation committee
has some history and knowledge of what I

1018
01:24:31,600 --> 01:24:38,960
think I find offense when you always say
layman but I don't think you do your

1019
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:43,120
your due diligence into looking into who
really is on the historic preservation

1020
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:49,600
committee and the years of experience
they've had and assuming that. Um, so I

1021
01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:56,239
just needed to put that out there. All
right. Are there any other questions? I

1022
01:24:52,960 --> 01:25:00,560
I actually do have one. Um, I know other
communities, particularly the smaller

1023
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:04,480
ones, also deal with some of this. Have
you been involved in any other

1024
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:09,199
communities and maybe how they did maybe
workshop this with architects or

1025
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:14,000
something? Is there a
brief description that you could give me

1026
01:25:11,040 --> 01:25:19,199
of what perhaps you have seen because
council is going to hear all of this and

1027
01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:24,800
it might be nice to hear hey this has
been successful in another community.

1028
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:31,120
Um I think what is successful in other
communities um Campbell, Carmemell, uh

1029
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:35,440
even San Jose and Santa Clara County and
their historical or their heritage uh

1030
01:25:33,840 --> 01:25:40,239
commission is what the county calls
theirs, not historical.

1031
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:45,040
um is
there are people who are um and I I

1032
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:50,880
Commissioner Bernett, I use the term
layman because I mean people who do not

1033
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:56,320
have a degree or certification as I do
or as the people who wrote the Pasadena

1034
01:25:53,280 --> 01:25:59,440
first 30 pages of their 280 page
guideline document. doesn't relate to my

1035
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:05,520
question
>> but okay but I think what it is is you

1036
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:12,400
you have to have a round table with
people who understand how the guidelines

1037
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:17,440
and regulations are written and can help
people make the best interpretation of

1038
01:26:15,520 --> 01:26:21,679
those for the specific project
>> and in those communities did that

1039
01:26:19,440 --> 01:26:25,120
opportunity get to happen that's kind of
what I'm trying to understand right like

1040
01:26:23,360 --> 01:26:27,920
seems like we're moving down a process
>> so there's often a historian that is on

1041
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:31,760
the
um or on the committee.

1042
01:26:29,440 --> 01:26:38,719
» Uh I would say that that's just like the
way we have Canon uh do um design

1043
01:26:35,199 --> 01:26:41,360
guideline uh looks. There are um but
there's someone who's actually on the

1044
01:26:39,920 --> 01:26:44,480
committee. It's not just another sendout
because typically we all will get our

1045
01:26:42,719 --> 01:26:49,679
own historian if it's a project of
significance or something like that.

1046
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:56,480
Anyway, um I would say that uh there's
also there's also a conversation about

1047
01:26:52,400 --> 01:27:00,080
if it is not meeting different um it the
same way the national register looks at

1048
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:04,239
it. If if things are not slotted in
different uh categories, if they're not

1049
01:27:02,239 --> 01:27:09,520
meeting all of these different pieces,
it's no longer open for discussion.

1050
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:14,719
these other parts and we as a community
have everything wide open for discussion

1051
01:27:12,159 --> 01:27:18,080
whether it checks a box has has two
pluses or narrows it down.

1052
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:23,520
» Correct. So you start getting on to
tracks that then if you want to contest

1053
01:27:20,159 --> 01:27:26,520
the track um for instance Santa Clara
County

1054
01:27:29,679 --> 01:27:36,239
» you have to talk into the microphone.
>> Sorry if you want to contest the track.

1055
01:27:33,199 --> 01:27:42,719
they have a twopart
application that is separate that gets

1056
01:27:38,960 --> 01:27:46,960
looked at then by um by historians. One
is identification of properties for

1057
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:51,040
potential historical significance. So if
it's an inquest or questionable thing,

1058
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:56,159
it goes through a different process.
After it passes that, it goes through a

1059
01:27:53,280 --> 01:28:01,440
deeper part two application that's also
looked at not just by planners but by

1060
01:27:58,719 --> 01:28:06,239
someone like Canon etc. and requires a
significant body of work to be presented

1061
01:28:03,600 --> 01:28:08,320
for that. And that's that's okay.
>> Yeah. So,

1062
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,719
» that's helpful. That's very very
helpful. Thank you,

1063
01:28:09,760 --> 01:28:13,360
» Commissioner. Mayor,
>> sorry I missed that. Did you What

1064
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:15,760
jurisdiction was that? Santa CL County.
>> That's Santa CL County.

1065
01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:19,520
» Santa Clair County. Okay. I think San
Francisco, the city of San Francisco has

1066
01:28:17,199 --> 01:28:22,159
something similar to that process. Yeah,
>> I think that would be nice to

1067
01:28:20,560 --> 01:28:23,760
understand. Commissioner, mayor, if we
talk about that later.

1068
01:28:23,440 --> 01:28:26,800
» Okay.
>> I think if you want to look at a a

1069
01:28:25,199 --> 01:28:30,080
keynote one in California, it would be
Pasadena.

1070
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:31,760
» Okay. Thank you. Um, hold on.
Commissioner Bernett, then Commissioner

1071
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:35,440
stop.
>> I just want to I want to ask one

1072
01:28:33,440 --> 01:28:39,360
question. Were you here when uh
Bloomfield did the survey? Were you

1073
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:47,120
familiar with all her like the survey
methodology and all the all the issues

1074
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:52,960
that were gone through at that time and
how Lascat has arrived at

1075
01:28:50,159 --> 01:28:57,280
what we have now. Are you aware? Have
you ever looked at her? I mean, if you

1076
01:28:55,360 --> 01:29:01,840
go to our historic section in the
library and even in our planning

1077
01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:07,199
department, there's a whole history of
everything that she presented and

1078
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:11,679
followed through on. And that's Have you
looked at that? I mean, can you're

1079
01:29:08,880 --> 01:29:16,639
talking about your side now. Why I think
you should also, and again, my question

1080
01:29:14,639 --> 01:29:20,639
is, have you done that? Have you looked
at the Bloomfield study and what that

1081
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:26,159
really means and how we really do our
survey and what it was based on our

1082
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:30,800
criteria, the four major criteria and
the breakdown of that and how we arrive

1083
01:29:28,159 --> 01:29:35,360
at our findings. Have you done that?
>> Yes.

1084
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:38,880
» Oh, good. Thank you,
Commissioner Stump.

1085
01:29:37,199 --> 01:29:44,320
» This is just a followup. You know, you
were talking about communities that you

1086
01:29:40,719 --> 01:29:49,679
were saying Carmemell, Campbell, maybe
Santa Clara County, Pasadena. Um, as you

1087
01:29:47,520 --> 01:29:54,560
think about our town, the character of
our town, who would you say you'd really

1088
01:29:52,320 --> 01:30:00,360
chase after from best practices to go
take a look at what they are doing and

1089
01:29:56,400 --> 01:30:00,360
learn from what they're doing?

1090
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:12,400
» Um, I'd probably put us uh in a in
actually an outofstate town. Um, and I I

1091
01:30:10,159 --> 01:30:17,040
think if we were to look out of state at
how historicals handled, I would I would

1092
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:24,239
probably pick something like um Park
City, Utah. Uh, and I say that because

1093
01:30:20,000 --> 01:30:30,080
they have a small core downtown. They
have an expanded uh urban element that

1094
01:30:27,679 --> 01:30:34,880
is not designated truly historical, but
clearly um is integrated into the fabric

1095
01:30:32,480 --> 01:30:40,320
of what we all know. Then they have
random

1096
01:30:36,560 --> 01:30:45,360
uh more p more planned developments like
the way we have the manor etc. And so

1097
01:30:43,120 --> 01:30:50,960
the way that their designations are
written and done um they really are

1098
01:30:47,760 --> 01:30:56,000
reflective by neighborhood and typology.
We don't have as big a core as Pasadena

1099
01:30:53,120 --> 01:31:01,600
does. We don't have famous architects
yet like Pasadena does did. We don't you

1100
01:30:59,360 --> 01:31:05,440
know there's we don't have that that
type of core. we have a little bit more

1101
01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:09,440
of a hodge podge around a very tight
core in in my opinion.

1102
01:31:07,840 --> 01:31:12,639
» Thank you for that. And chair, I will
volunteer to sacrifice to go to Park

1103
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,880
City on behalf of the planning
commission.

1104
01:31:12,880 --> 01:31:19,600
» No, no, I'm the chair. I already took
that spot, so sorry. All right. Do we

1105
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:25,639
have any further questions? No. Thank
you very much. Um, and Lee, I did get

1106
01:31:22,400 --> 01:31:25,639
another card.

1107
01:31:31,120 --> 01:31:38,000
» Again, speaking as a 31-year resident of
Losatis, I am very encouraged by the

1108
01:31:36,320 --> 01:31:42,239
conversation that I hear, the the
dialogue back and forth in a sense of

1109
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:48,320
trying to find ways to learn from each
other and work together. Um, clearly

1110
01:31:44,800 --> 01:31:53,679
it's needed. Um my wife and I moved here
with our family because of the sense of

1111
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:59,120
character in this town. Um, we've lived
in seven other, my wife and I lived in

1112
01:31:55,600 --> 01:32:05,280
seven other cities in four countries.
And when we came here to to to look, we

1113
01:32:03,440 --> 01:32:11,040
fell in love. And we want to preserve
the character, preserve the character

1114
01:32:08,639 --> 01:32:18,800
that's here so that the next generation
can also see this uh this sense of

1115
01:32:15,760 --> 01:32:26,080
welcoming community but still preserving
the the values and and that sense of of

1116
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:32,880
history. Um, and
the uh the priority I think that this

1117
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:40,639
community needs to be doing is to work
to preserve that sense of history and

1118
01:32:37,280 --> 01:32:47,120
and relevance while still welcoming new
residents in into our town. Um, and I

1119
01:32:45,440 --> 01:32:51,840
also think it's interesting to think of,
you know, not just pre-1941 housing to

1120
01:32:49,760 --> 01:32:56,239
be preserved. Maybe now we ought to look
at pre-1961

1121
01:32:54,080 --> 01:33:01,280
because there's a lot of that type of
character that that defines certain

1122
01:32:58,480 --> 01:33:07,520
neighborhoods. Uh where I live, the 25
houses on the street that I live on, um

1123
01:33:04,560 --> 01:33:10,639
they they they are being preserved. U we
had one neighbor who wanted to build a

1124
01:33:09,120 --> 01:33:15,440
second story and the neighbors came
together and said absolutely not. So,

1125
01:33:12,320 --> 01:33:22,239
they moved a couple of blocks away and
uh they're in the uh the unincorporated

1126
01:33:18,800 --> 01:33:28,480
area called Blossom Hill. And uh that's
fine. Um, and the other thing that I'm

1127
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:33,679
concerned with, um, well, before I get
to that, I I think the suggestion that

1128
01:33:30,639 --> 01:33:39,760
was made by the the previous, uh, uh,
guest up here, um, she made some very

1129
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:45,760
good points about looking at other areas
that have found very good ways of

1130
01:33:42,239 --> 01:33:51,679
putting that sense of preservation into
the municipal code. And that's what I

1131
01:33:48,560 --> 01:33:56,880
think is missing here is uh we need to
put some of this into the code. So I I

1132
01:33:54,880 --> 01:34:01,600
think that should be the mission that is
undertaken uh as quickly as possible.

1133
01:33:59,920 --> 01:34:07,600
And I like the workshop that's going to
be done uh the next couple of weeks to

1134
01:34:04,080 --> 01:34:11,440
to deal with a lot of this. And um the
last thing is we need to find ways to

1135
01:34:09,600 --> 01:34:15,440
protect ourselves from the threats
coming from Ringling Brothers up in

1136
01:34:13,280 --> 01:34:20,080
Sacramento with a legislation that
they're passing down about their new

1137
01:34:17,679 --> 01:34:23,920
mandates, ignoring local sense of
community, but rather they want to

1138
01:34:21,760 --> 01:34:29,120
standardize everything, make it less
expensive, allegedly less expensive, so

1139
01:34:26,719 --> 01:34:34,639
that developers can put in all kinds of
things that have no bearing on the

1140
01:34:31,040 --> 01:34:38,480
quality of life here. Uh,
and I'll end with that. It's

1141
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:42,000
» a good spot to end. Hold on.
Commissioner Bernett.

1142
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:45,440
» Yes. So, thank you for speaking tonight.
Do you think we've done a pretty good

1143
01:34:43,360 --> 01:34:52,000
job at preserving and maintaining the
character of our town?

1144
01:34:47,679 --> 01:34:57,280
» I believe so. I uh I I'm encouraged to
see the commitment from a lot of people

1145
01:34:54,159 --> 01:35:05,280
who are not just in the audience, but up
at the DAS and and that is is good.

1146
01:35:02,239 --> 01:35:10,000
The thing is now keep it up and and find
ways to be even more engaging with the

1147
01:35:08,159 --> 01:35:13,440
rest of the community and other
legislators because that's where the

1148
01:35:12,159 --> 01:35:16,880
changes have to occur.
>> Thank you. It sounds like we are doing

1149
01:35:15,040 --> 01:35:20,480
something right.
>> Passing grade.

1150
01:35:19,120 --> 01:35:25,920
» All right. Are there any other questions
for the speaker?

1151
01:35:22,480 --> 01:35:29,600
» Right. No. Thank you.
So, Mr. Mullen, like we talked a little

1152
01:35:27,679 --> 01:35:36,480
bit before we started this, there were
some objectives from council for this

1153
01:35:33,760 --> 01:35:40,239
discussion. Could you pull that up?
>> Let me get those on the screen for you.

1154
01:35:38,400 --> 01:35:44,000
» So to my fellow commissioners, in
anticipation of this, I thought to keep

1155
01:35:41,679 --> 01:35:48,480
this organized, we will simply go
through those.

1156
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:51,280
» Yeah. Can I finish? What does it say?
>> Just wanted to ask kind of a process

1157
01:35:49,840 --> 01:35:56,239
question. and one of my fellow
commissioners handed out something to us

1158
01:35:53,520 --> 01:36:00,960
at the deis that's an eight-page um it's
entitled survey methodology and um I

1159
01:35:59,760 --> 01:36:04,480
think she was a little concerned that I
didn't want to accept it in advance of

1160
01:36:02,400 --> 01:36:08,239
the meeting. She did tell me that it was
it was disseminated to director Pollson

1161
01:36:06,639 --> 01:36:11,040
and that it would be handed out to
everybody equally. I just wanted to make

1162
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:14,960
sure everybody got it.
>> Yeah, it's not this evening. We're just

1163
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:18,639
having a discussion. There's no action.
We still have to get direction from

1164
01:36:16,800 --> 01:36:22,400
council on these items as to what we're
actually going to work on. Um, but you

1165
01:36:21,199 --> 01:36:25,520
know, that's something that we can
definitely make sure that the other two

1166
01:36:23,679 --> 01:36:29,040
commissioners that aren't here.
>> Yeah, just to clarify my question, I

1167
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:33,440
it's actually a historical document.
It's entitled survey methodology. I

1168
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:37,600
think it was done by somebody, some
Bloomfield and um back in the '9s and

1169
01:36:36,239 --> 01:36:41,040
it's eight pages long. I just didn't
have a chance to read it and it's really

1170
01:36:39,520 --> 01:36:44,000
more of a procedural question. Should a
planning commissioner be handing out

1171
01:36:42,239 --> 01:36:47,679
information right before the hearing
that the public doesn't have access to?

1172
01:36:45,679 --> 01:36:53,440
It should come to staff and then staff
will disseminate it to the um officials

1173
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:57,040
and to the public. And so if you give it
to me, I can run some copies because we

1174
01:36:55,440 --> 01:37:00,159
should have it available for the public
as well.

1175
01:36:58,480 --> 01:37:03,040
» Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.
>> No, that's fine because I I actually

1176
01:37:01,600 --> 01:37:06,400
don't I don't have a copy of it either.
So that'd be fine.

1177
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:09,360
» But that's okay.
>> Can I just

1178
01:37:08,239 --> 01:37:14,480
» Commissioner Bernett?
>> Yes. Actually, it was I I gave it to uh

1179
01:37:12,239 --> 01:37:21,679
Commissioner Sordy because there were
questions in the past on the the drive

1180
01:37:18,800 --> 01:37:27,520
by uh windshield thing and I thought
this would be a nice little summary for

1181
01:37:23,440 --> 01:37:32,320
him. I wasn't like meant to
it was more like a reading something. It

1182
01:37:30,320 --> 01:37:35,199
it wasn't coming up tonight, but it was
just

1183
01:37:32,560 --> 01:37:39,280
» So, was it only for Commissioner Sordy?
>> I gave it to Commissioner. Okay, then I

1184
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:43,040
I'll make copies because it should go to
the public as well.

1185
01:37:40,239 --> 01:37:47,600
» Okay. Thank you.
>> All right.

1186
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:52,000
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mullins. So, there
were a few key things that you can

1187
01:37:50,320 --> 01:37:55,760
obviously fill in since I wasn't at that
meeting that came up that were more

1188
01:37:54,320 --> 01:38:00,000
specific and how that they would like to
maybe guide this conversation. So, I

1189
01:37:58,400 --> 01:38:04,000
would like as much as possible to stick
to these bullet points. Obviously,

1190
01:38:01,760 --> 01:38:07,920
there's some other um supplemental
information that was in our packet that

1191
01:38:05,760 --> 01:38:13,199
has a little bit more of a deep dive on
some things if we need to reference

1192
01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:16,000
that. Um so I but I would try to like to
try to stick to this just for the sake

1193
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:20,719
of people that are going to listen to
this video later and take in that

1194
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:25,040
information. So the first one is
preserving smaller homes.

1195
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:28,800
Are there any thoughts that you guys
would like to share around preserving

1196
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:32,800
obviously historic homes I think is what
we're trying to say or in a historic

1197
01:38:30,239 --> 01:38:36,480
neighborhood specifically Commissioner
Stump.

1198
01:38:33,760 --> 01:38:41,920
» Yeah, I I attended a um [clears throat]
housing boot camp in San Jose this past

1199
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:46,960
weekend and um I don't know that it's
new. In fact, either Mr. Mullen or Mr.

1200
01:38:44,639 --> 01:38:52,560
Pollson can correct me, but there's more
discussion going about trying to

1201
01:38:48,560 --> 01:38:57,440
preserve affordable housing. Um, which
means ideally finding funding that, for

1202
01:38:55,679 --> 01:39:02,320
example, if a a place is going to sell,
and it's going to get turned into market

1203
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:07,920
rate housing that a group steps up, buys
it, it gets refurbished, and the same

1204
01:39:04,159 --> 01:39:13,520
people live there. This idea of having
smaller homes in Loscatos, again, what's

1205
01:39:10,639 --> 01:39:19,040
affordable? Even a smaller historic home
in Los Gatos is going to be beyond the

1206
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:24,880
reach of a family of four, $150,000 a
year. But I do think it's a good thought

1207
01:39:22,159 --> 01:39:31,679
because I don't know that a historic
home because there may be more value to

1208
01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:38,400
that home is considered a starter home.
But if you've got a 1,200 foot home

1209
01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:44,400
versus a 4,000 ft home, it might give
people an opportunity. Like I said,

1210
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:48,880
historic homes is not my area of
expertise and what the overall value is.

1211
01:39:46,800 --> 01:39:54,719
We just know that uh property values in
Los are really really difficult and how

1212
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:59,119
do we give young families when we came
back to this area we ended up in a

1213
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:03,600
12,200 ft² home with a family of four
that's what we could afford at that

1214
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:09,199
point in time um and and yet we could
afford it 1,200 foot home so I do think

1215
01:40:07,440 --> 01:40:15,760
there is something to this idea of
trying to preserve smaller homes um

1216
01:40:12,560 --> 01:40:20,239
potentially for the benefit of allowing
somebody an entry point into the

1217
01:40:17,440 --> 01:40:23,520
community potentially uninformed
opinion.

1218
01:40:21,600 --> 01:40:26,719
» Yeah, the potentially lies with the
historic part. Are there any other

1219
01:40:25,199 --> 01:40:30,159
comments anybody wants to make?
Commissioner Mayor?

1220
01:40:28,400 --> 01:40:36,480
» Yeah, I think Commissioner Stump uh
touches on something interesting about

1221
01:40:33,679 --> 01:40:41,840
um you know, smaller homes traditionally
being starter homes, more affordable

1222
01:40:38,400 --> 01:40:45,119
homes. Um, that's sort of a housing
affordability

1223
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:49,280
conversation,
preserving smaller homes. I, so when I

1224
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:52,880
see that bullet point,
uh, we're talking about affordability,

1225
01:40:51,280 --> 01:40:58,800
but
this is about historic preservation. So,

1226
01:40:56,320 --> 01:41:02,400
I don't necessarily think that just
because something is small, it's it's

1227
01:41:00,960 --> 01:41:07,280
historic. There's probably historic
homes that are very large as well. So,

1228
01:41:05,360 --> 01:41:12,400
I'm just trying to understand what that
bullet point

1229
01:41:09,119 --> 01:41:18,320
means exactly and maybe maybe Sean Mr.
And you can uh is is it about housing

1230
01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:22,159
affordability an entry point? Uh is that
what it's is that the primary objective?

1231
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:25,600
» I think partially I think it has a foot
in both worlds. I think it has a far uh

1232
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:30,560
the foot in the affordability world in
that um a smaller home is and I'll use

1233
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:34,239
the term naturally affordable with
commissioner Stump's point taken that

1234
01:41:32,159 --> 01:41:39,360
affordability even a small home in
Lascatus is out of reach for most folks.

1235
01:41:36,960 --> 01:41:46,320
Um so I think that's the affordability
component. The other component is that

1236
01:41:42,400 --> 01:41:52,480
older homes tend to be smaller and from
a historic preservation perspective,

1237
01:41:50,320 --> 01:41:56,719
there's some value in preserving that
context in the town.

1238
01:41:54,719 --> 01:42:01,840
» And I'll just add, I mean, I think that
most of these come from a list that was

1239
01:41:58,880 --> 01:42:05,360
prepared and I think reviewed by HPC.
And so they see these smaller homes come

1240
01:42:03,679 --> 01:42:10,000
and being requested to be removed from
the inventory. Um, I think the

1241
01:42:07,679 --> 01:42:14,239
affordability component, I'm not sure
how much weight there is in that. Um,

1242
01:42:12,480 --> 01:42:19,199
because people, whether it's a historic
home or a non-historic home, you're

1243
01:42:17,600 --> 01:42:24,560
paying for what you potentially could
build there. Um, so unless someone's

1244
01:42:21,760 --> 01:42:27,840
going to uh talk to all the real
litterers and say you got to sell these

1245
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:32,480
homes for cheaper than, you know, you
normally would, which I don't think is

1246
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:36,719
reality. Um, I think it's a it's kind
of, as Mr. Mullen said it's in both

1247
01:42:34,480 --> 01:42:40,480
sides, but the affordability component,
you know, that that's really market

1248
01:42:38,080 --> 01:42:45,199
driven. So, I'm not sure how we're going
to effectively affect that component of

1249
01:42:43,440 --> 01:42:47,199
it.
>> Yeah. Because [clears throat] correct me

1250
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:53,360
if I'm wrong, but, you know, I've seen
homes in Loscatoos in historic districts

1251
01:42:50,320 --> 01:42:57,920
that, you know, go through HPC and go
through the the commission and go

1252
01:42:55,440 --> 01:43:03,040
through the whole process and they add a
lot of square footage, but they still

1253
01:42:59,600 --> 01:43:06,719
are considered historic homes. So the
smaller homes point and and I mean I

1254
01:43:05,600 --> 01:43:12,239
understand the point of wanting to
preserve opportunity for affordable

1255
01:43:09,440 --> 01:43:18,719
housing, but in the conversation of
historic preservation, I just don't want

1256
01:43:15,199 --> 01:43:24,560
uh that conversation to sort of uh
sideline and or make us lose focus on on

1257
01:43:21,679 --> 01:43:29,040
the historic preservation part.
>> Understood. It's because my take on that

1258
01:43:26,960 --> 01:43:33,440
having sat on the historic preservation
for a long time and then the commission

1259
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:39,440
for a long time is um we have seen a
number of historic homes whether it's

1260
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:43,600
the historic neighborhood or designated
um where someone has bought it their

1261
01:43:41,840 --> 01:43:48,080
family has grown or whatever and they
they want to expand that house and I

1262
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:53,199
think we have been fortunate and seen a
number of really sensitive ones that are

1263
01:43:50,080 --> 01:43:56,239
done that maintain the character of it
you know but allow you know a larger

1264
01:43:55,040 --> 01:44:02,239
their family to live there. And I think
we've seen examples where it wasn't done

1265
01:43:59,440 --> 01:44:08,719
quite so well. Um, and to me, I think
that might be a little bit more of this,

1266
01:44:04,239 --> 01:44:14,560
you know, what language is in
guidelines or whatever right now around,

1267
01:44:11,920 --> 01:44:18,320
you know, where do we draw the line on
no, you have to preserve the smaller

1268
01:44:16,239 --> 01:44:22,000
house versus it is very acceptable to
add on to this house, but with these

1269
01:44:20,239 --> 01:44:25,360
very specific criteria. And that's what
I would assume because I've had a lot of

1270
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:29,119
meetings where we have argued about is
it acceptable and what's that criteria?

1271
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:33,040
I don't know that I think we're supposed
to solve that tonight, but to me that's

1272
01:44:31,040 --> 01:44:36,880
the issue. If somebody else sees
something more to that idea of either

1273
01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:40,119
preserving or expanding homes, I would
like to know.

1274
01:44:40,400 --> 01:44:45,920
» Yeah. And by the way, I don't disagree
with the discussion about affordable. In

1275
01:44:44,400 --> 01:44:51,119
fact, I was not trying. Unfortunately,
affordable is a loaded word. Um, and I

1276
01:44:49,520 --> 01:44:55,119
really wasn't using it in the sense that
these homes are certified affordable,

1277
01:44:53,440 --> 01:45:01,600
right? So that they're going to have,
you know, 55 years of restriction and

1278
01:44:58,800 --> 01:45:08,320
sale. Um, but just the fact, like I say,
for us when we moved back to Los Gatos,

1279
01:45:04,560 --> 01:45:13,520
you know, 1,200 ft house was was there
and it afforded us an entry point. So

1280
01:45:11,199 --> 01:45:19,080
there is value in in smaller square
footage homes whether they're historic

1281
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:19,080
or not in Los.

1282
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:25,360
» Mr. Mullen, do you by any chance have in
front of you there there is some

1283
01:45:22,719 --> 01:45:29,199
language about the amount of the home
that must be preserved when you're

1284
01:45:26,960 --> 01:45:34,719
adding on to a historic home to maintain
that designation. So I well there's a

1285
01:45:32,639 --> 01:45:39,679
technical demolition
um definition that we look at um that

1286
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:44,960
has to do with the exterior wall
covering of the outside walls of of

1287
01:45:42,400 --> 01:45:50,719
historic houses. Um street facing
facades you're only allowed up to 25% of

1288
01:45:48,480 --> 01:45:57,040
demolition. Um so you could only remove
the siding um if it's original um of 25%

1289
01:45:54,800 --> 01:46:01,520
of the street facing facads and then 50%
of the building cumulative. Um, and we

1290
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:06,159
don't look at the roof.
Projects that

1291
01:46:04,159 --> 01:46:12,320
it gets a little murky admittedly, but
projects in districts um can experience

1292
01:46:09,360 --> 01:46:18,320
a technical demolition and there's not
any language that says you didn't tear

1293
01:46:15,199 --> 01:46:23,280
the whole house down and the HPC and the
town approved it and you did an addition

1294
01:46:20,159 --> 01:46:27,440
to it. It's still historic, but it's
still treated as such. Um but with

1295
01:46:26,080 --> 01:46:31,679
recognition that it experienced a
technical demolition. U there's holes in

1296
01:46:29,760 --> 01:46:34,960
our code for sure and right things that
can be improved.

1297
01:46:32,719 --> 01:46:39,920
» Okay. I because I do think that's
probably one spot. Um I I have actually

1298
01:46:38,400 --> 01:46:46,880
always felt like the language around
what the addition

1299
01:46:42,000 --> 01:46:50,560
to a pre um a historic home how that
addition should be. Actually I always

1300
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:54,960
thought that wasn't too bad. I'm not an
architect. So perhaps that's also

1301
01:46:52,560 --> 01:47:00,239
something that people want to advise
council perhaps to get guidance on um

1302
01:46:57,920 --> 01:47:04,719
from professionals on how that language
could be tightened to avoid

1303
01:47:02,719 --> 01:47:09,040
maybe more people misconstring what the
meaning is behind that.

1304
01:47:07,440 --> 01:47:13,920
There any other conversation around
preserving smaller homes?

1305
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:20,960
All right. Reviewing the boundaries of
the historic districts.

1306
01:47:16,639 --> 01:47:20,960
Um any thoughts on this?

1307
01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:26,239
Okay, good. Commissioner, mayor,
>> uh,

1308
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:31,760
» I think our current historic districts
work pretty well. Most of the issues I

1309
01:47:28,480 --> 01:47:37,360
see with the, uh, historic review seem
to be these 19 pre-1941

1310
01:47:34,880 --> 01:47:43,920
properties that are not in one of the
well-defined historic districts. So,

1311
01:47:41,199 --> 01:47:49,280
I wouldn't advise council to make any
changes to the current boundaries, but

1312
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:53,520
if they wanted to consider
adding another neighborhood or two, I

1313
01:47:51,440 --> 01:47:58,800
mean, I'd be curious to hear if any
other commissioners have thoughts on if

1314
01:47:55,920 --> 01:48:03,040
there are areas currently not that are
designated historic districts that

1315
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:06,400
should be.
Okay, that's an interesting thought

1316
01:48:04,639 --> 01:48:10,480
because I do think our current historic
districts are pretty good, but I think

1317
01:48:08,239 --> 01:48:15,920
some of this is going to also land on do
we change the years to where a whole

1318
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:18,159
district then falls under like a 70-year
ruling.

1319
01:48:16,639 --> 01:48:21,280
» I'll make a comment when we get to that.
>> Okay. So, to me, those tie a little bit,

1320
01:48:19,520 --> 01:48:26,320
but I could be looking at that wrong.
Any other thoughts, Commissioner Shorty?

1321
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:30,719
I was just going to mention um one of my
colleagues mentioned Magnazon Loop

1322
01:48:27,920 --> 01:48:35,920
earlier and which has a I don't know the
age of all those homes but I don't think

1323
01:48:32,159 --> 01:48:38,880
that's a historic district and I mean I
think it's just noteworthy.

1324
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:42,639
So
>> I can add through the chair that

1325
01:48:40,159 --> 01:48:46,000
Magnuson Loop um I can't remember the
age of the homes they're all most of

1326
01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:50,480
them are provincial and architectural
style. Um they were rated most of them

1327
01:48:48,639 --> 01:48:53,679
rated pretty high especially as you get
closer to Loscatus Boulevard in the

1328
01:48:52,080 --> 01:48:57,600
Bloomfield survey and there was
recognition that that could as it was

1329
01:48:56,239 --> 01:49:00,880
kind of identified as a potential
district there through that survey

1330
01:48:59,360 --> 01:49:05,360
process and I'm sure Commissioner
Bernett will add to this um through that

1331
01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:11,760
survey process that was conducted in the
late 80s and 90s um there were a number

1332
01:49:08,880 --> 01:49:15,840
of areas of town LMA Alta Glenidge
Johnson and the Cottage District that

1333
01:49:14,159 --> 01:49:21,760
were identified as potential districts.
they just were not adopted um for one

1334
01:49:18,639 --> 01:49:26,080
reason or another. I wasn't there um
quite old enough yet, but I'll leave it

1335
01:49:23,199 --> 01:49:30,159
at that.
>> Commissioner Fernette.

1336
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:36,639
» Yeah, I just want to mention
five areas in town and one of the most

1337
01:49:34,880 --> 01:49:42,400
one of the most important one was the
Glen Ridge district which I wrote the

1338
01:49:39,119 --> 01:49:47,440
ordinance on 1998. I did the whole 12
blocks with all the photos of every

1339
01:49:44,639 --> 01:49:51,600
house, the Bloomfield study, and last
during COVID, I actually walked the

1340
01:49:49,440 --> 01:49:58,960
whole neighborhood again and updated all
the homes. I mean, it is just a a source

1341
01:49:56,400 --> 01:50:04,880
of wonderful, wonderful homes. And it
really should be a historic district and

1342
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:10,159
if any district should be sort of
started to follow up on because I have

1343
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:15,119
done all the the base work. I mean, it
wouldn't it would take some work, but

1344
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:20,400
with the ordinance written and with the
photos of all the homes in the 12b block

1345
01:50:17,360 --> 01:50:27,199
area and the description, which I have
read now upgraded, I think it would be

1346
01:50:24,159 --> 01:50:32,800
wise to do that because coming down from
Sacramento now with SB9

1347
01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:37,360
and the increase in density and
intensity of our neighborhoods and

1348
01:50:35,360 --> 01:50:42,880
actually
going also into historic districts which

1349
01:50:40,159 --> 01:50:49,440
would not be protected. I think if the
town could at least maybe get Glen Ridge

1350
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:55,360
in. Um it would be helpful to give some
protection for the density that is

1351
01:50:52,639 --> 01:51:01,679
coming down from Sacramento. And like I
say, I mean most of the

1352
01:50:58,719 --> 01:51:07,360
the hard work is done. I mean, we need a
historian to follow up on it, but it's

1353
01:51:05,119 --> 01:51:10,400
every street in the neighborhood 12
blocks.

1354
01:51:08,480 --> 01:51:13,520
» So, it sounds like the perhaps the
response to council is we do think

1355
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:18,159
that's worth looking into that that
there were other recommendations. There

1356
01:51:15,199 --> 01:51:22,239
may be other areas and probably somebody
above my pay grade makes that decision.

1357
01:51:20,719 --> 01:51:26,719
But
I Yeah, Commissioner S.

1358
01:51:24,159 --> 01:51:30,320
» Um, just a question in general interest,
how would we go about doing that? I

1359
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:34,800
mean, we certainly heard tonight, you
know, about

1360
01:51:32,239 --> 01:51:38,800
Johnson, potentially Glen Ridge,
>> um, and how would we go about

1361
01:51:36,880 --> 01:51:43,760
identifying potential historic districts
in 2026?

1362
01:51:42,239 --> 01:51:47,440
I I can start with a little bit of
feedback, but I'm sure that it would

1363
01:51:45,199 --> 01:51:51,760
involve if council provided the
direction and and any funding uh

1364
01:51:49,760 --> 01:51:58,480
allocation that would be necessary. It
would involve um likely someone with

1365
01:51:55,840 --> 01:52:03,840
much more experience to look at the
archive files and make a recommendation

1366
01:52:01,599 --> 01:52:07,760
as to, you know, any potential updates
and then go from there about

1367
01:52:05,599 --> 01:52:11,199
recommendations on potential districts.
And then ultimately a a historic

1368
01:52:09,760 --> 01:52:15,119
district needs to be approved by the
council. It's it's a council designation

1369
01:52:13,280 --> 01:52:18,239
for an overlay.
>> And I just add through the chair, I

1370
01:52:16,480 --> 01:52:23,679
mean, I think should the council provide
that direction, um, you know, there are

1371
01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:28,159
potential implications for, you know,
assigning new districts. So, we probably

1372
01:52:26,159 --> 01:52:32,159
would need to do pretty significant
outreach to the properties that would be

1373
01:52:30,400 --> 01:52:37,599
affected by that so that their voices
could be heard as well. um because that

1374
01:52:34,000 --> 01:52:41,360
may or may not have bearing uh should it
move forward.

1375
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:46,560
» All right, that's good to know. Thank
you. Um

1376
01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:51,920
what about the next one then? Let's talk
about refreshing the Bloomfield survey.

1377
01:52:49,199 --> 01:52:56,239
Um yes, I think this should be done. I
do not think it should be somebody in a

1378
01:52:53,520 --> 01:53:01,199
car just driving by houses.
Um, I I I think if we are going to do

1379
01:52:59,199 --> 01:53:06,880
this,
it would be great if it was a more

1380
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:10,840
thorough review of the homes. But
anybody else have thoughts?

1381
01:53:12,080 --> 01:53:19,440
we just
a more thorough review of the homes

1382
01:53:16,159 --> 01:53:24,080
against a updated set of criteria or
evaluation criteria because one of the

1383
01:53:21,440 --> 01:53:29,440
things we run into here I want to hide
under the deis when we have an appeal

1384
01:53:26,400 --> 01:53:32,719
come to us um because I just sometimes
feel things are squishy and

1385
01:53:31,423 --> 01:53:38,159
[clears throat]
um we we don't necessarily have all of

1386
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:44,159
the facts and we it doesn't feel solid
and so I really desire for us to be far

1387
01:53:41,760 --> 01:53:47,599
more factual and and you know criteria
and evaluation driven but I think that

1388
01:53:45,840 --> 01:53:51,440
maybe comes through an update like we're
talking about.

1389
01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:55,920
» Do you mean so normally we follow like
what is it the four or five criteria

1390
01:53:53,760 --> 01:54:00,639
that gets put in front of us. Are you
actually meeting potentially more like

1391
01:53:58,080 --> 01:54:03,280
architecturally specific criteria?
>> I guess what I'm even thinking about is

1392
01:54:02,080 --> 01:54:07,679
when you take a look at the old
Bloomfield checklist that they used it

1393
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:11,040
would be first of all look at something
like that or other things other tools

1394
01:54:09,440 --> 01:54:16,320
that are out there. In fact, you were
weren't you putting up a couple for us

1395
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:18,159
earlier or was Yeah. And so we need to
update that, I guess, is what I was

1396
01:54:17,920 --> 01:54:19,599
saying.
>> That's what I was asking.

1397
01:54:18,719 --> 01:54:24,000
» We need to update that.
>> Yeah. Okay. Any other thoughts on this

1398
01:54:22,639 --> 01:54:26,320
item?
>> Yeah. Commissioner,

1399
01:54:24,960 --> 01:54:31,920
» so that when we talk about refreshing
the Bloomfield survey, is that I know

1400
01:54:29,280 --> 01:54:35,280
that it was done so long ago that I
guess my question is what homes are we

1401
01:54:33,199 --> 01:54:39,920
targeting and is it feasible? So is it
is it to refresh the evaluation of

1402
01:54:37,840 --> 01:54:44,400
everything that's 1941
and older or

1403
01:54:42,239 --> 01:54:49,599
» to me this all ties together. So let's
say council says for example we're going

1404
01:54:47,280 --> 01:54:52,880
to add the Glen Ridge historic district
right? So if we're going to do a refresh

1405
01:54:51,360 --> 01:54:57,199
Bloomville survey it should include
that. If we decide that there's actually

1406
01:54:55,440 --> 01:55:01,840
like a rolling something that's an
evaluation probably it should include

1407
01:54:59,920 --> 01:55:04,880
those too if we're designating all of
these places as historic. Gotcha. I

1408
01:55:04,639 --> 01:55:08,560
think
>> that's my opinion. Council can ignore

1409
01:55:07,679 --> 01:55:12,400
that completely.
>> Follow by asking

1410
01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:16,639
» I feel like they all tie together. Yes.
>> Sorry to be the dunce in the room, but

1411
01:55:13,840 --> 01:55:21,679
what does that mean? Adopting pre-1941
to 70year ruling

1412
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:24,480
» down. Well, okay. You just made
reference to us. I maybe when we get

1413
01:55:23,199 --> 01:55:32,440
there, we can define what that is
because I'm I'm just picturing like a

1414
01:55:27,679 --> 01:55:32,440
1936 house being pushed down a hill.

1415
01:55:34,719 --> 01:55:39,360
Commissioner Bernett.
>> Yeah, I just want to mention um I mean

1416
01:55:37,520 --> 01:55:46,239
that's what Saratoga does. I mean they
add to their inventory all the time and

1417
01:55:42,000 --> 01:55:51,440
so rolling is 50 years
one. So I mean that's

1418
01:55:49,360 --> 01:55:54,080
» and we're going to get there. That's two
bullet points down. So let me get to the

1419
01:55:52,960 --> 01:55:56,159
next one and then I want to have a
thorough discussion.

1420
01:55:54,800 --> 01:55:58,080
» Oh I thought we were talking about the
>> not yet. He's just jumping ahead.

1421
01:55:57,599 --> 01:56:02,960
» Okay.
>> Yeah. Ignore him.

1422
01:56:00,000 --> 01:56:07,280
» Okay. So um considering replacement
structure historically

1423
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:12,800
relevant
um

1424
01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:19,040
is was the conversation and council or
has the conversation been I for example

1425
01:56:15,840 --> 01:56:25,119
have a historic that was a historically
nice house and it burned down and I

1426
01:56:22,159 --> 01:56:29,520
build the structure back exactly like it
but obviously it won't be exactly like

1427
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:34,320
it. Is that this discussion or what does
this mean?

1428
01:56:30,560 --> 01:56:38,719
» The starting off point of this goes back
to a lot of the requests that the HPC

1429
01:56:36,960 --> 01:56:42,800
reviews and make makes recommendations
on for removal from the inventory. Um,

1430
01:56:41,280 --> 01:56:48,960
and when something's removed from the
inventory, um, it's no longer subject to

1431
01:56:46,400 --> 01:56:52,800
review as a historic home because it
could be demolished, it could be added

1432
01:56:51,360 --> 01:56:58,560
on to, it could be technically
demolished. I think the desire of the

1433
01:56:55,760 --> 01:57:03,440
HPC in their letter to the council that
council grabbed on to here was there

1434
01:57:00,960 --> 01:57:08,080
would there's a desire to maintain some
control over the design of the new

1435
01:57:06,239 --> 01:57:12,159
structure to ensure that it's
historically relevant to honor what was

1436
01:57:10,239 --> 01:57:15,599
there previously.
And I'm seeing a head nod from

1437
01:57:13,760 --> 01:57:22,480
Commissioner Bernett who serves on the
HPC and was part of writing that letter.

1438
01:57:19,920 --> 01:57:27,520
Yes, just to clarify that uh it could
still be considered a contributor even

1439
01:57:24,719 --> 01:57:33,119
though if if it was rebuilt redone in
the same likeness and followed the

1440
01:57:29,599 --> 01:57:38,320
guidelines then it should not be just um
it should al still reflect uh time and

1441
01:57:36,719 --> 01:57:44,719
place even though it would be a new
build. If you look at the, you know, all

1442
01:57:41,520 --> 01:57:51,360
the documents, this is this is
considered an okay thing to do. And so I

1443
01:57:48,400 --> 01:57:57,760
think that that would be um something
where we addressed that it still would

1444
01:57:53,760 --> 01:58:02,080
be historically re reent relevant even
though it was a new build. It would

1445
01:57:59,440 --> 01:58:08,400
still fit into the neighborhood like it
had before burned down or something. So,

1446
01:58:06,960 --> 01:58:12,960
that was the point we were trying to
make.

1447
01:58:08,880 --> 01:58:16,719
» Okay. If So, if there's a new home being
built in a historic district, doesn't it

1448
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:19,679
already go?
>> And I'll make a clarification there

1449
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:23,440
because Commissioner Bernett touched on
a loaded word of contributor. Um,

1450
01:58:21,440 --> 01:58:27,599
contributors are only located and not
negatively, it actually is a really

1451
01:58:25,199 --> 01:58:31,679
salient point. Um, contributors are only
located in districts. So, within the

1452
01:58:29,360 --> 01:58:36,400
district, we have a group of homes.
within the that group of homes, they are

1453
01:58:33,920 --> 01:58:39,920
designated as contributors or
non-contributors. That is listed in the

1454
01:58:38,400 --> 01:58:44,880
back of the residential design
guidelines. There's a thorough address

1455
01:58:41,360 --> 01:58:50,239
by address list of the contributors. Um
to Vice Chair Burch's uh or Chair

1456
01:58:47,440 --> 01:58:55,440
Burch's excuse me uh point within a
district if there is some

1457
01:58:53,280 --> 01:59:02,560
project where the approval is to
demolish a home um the HPC maintains

1458
01:59:00,080 --> 01:59:07,040
control from a design standpoint within
the district because the district itself

1459
01:59:05,040 --> 01:59:12,080
is overlaid with the landmark and
historic preservation overlay zone. What

1460
01:59:10,080 --> 01:59:16,159
I'm speaking about is outside of a
district, these pre-41 homes where there

1461
01:59:14,400 --> 01:59:19,840
are no such things as contributors, and
this is also something that can be

1462
01:59:17,199 --> 01:59:24,400
tightened up in the code. Those homes
once they are demolished, we just remove

1463
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:28,920
them from the inventory, they're no
longer subject to review by the HPC.

1464
01:59:29,679 --> 01:59:36,880
And just to add on, so so the I think
the ask is that similar to the historic

1465
01:59:34,480 --> 01:59:42,080
districts that the HPC there's some
desire to retain similar control for

1466
01:59:40,239 --> 01:59:47,840
homes that may be removed from the
inventory andor demolished uh for future

1467
01:59:45,599 --> 01:59:55,119
uh construction.
>> But if we took it off the registry,

1468
01:59:51,280 --> 01:59:59,119
then that structure was already deemed
not relevant for whatever reasons. I

1469
01:59:57,679 --> 02:00:05,280
mean, we've seen some lately that fell
under historic, but it was a box that

1470
02:00:01,920 --> 02:00:10,560
was falling down, for example. Um, would
this I guess this would wind up being

1471
02:00:07,280 --> 02:00:14,880
blanket. So, if if it was decided here
that, you know, it has been added on, it

1472
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:20,800
has been Frankenstein forever. You
cannot see the original relevance of it

1473
02:00:17,040 --> 02:00:25,199
other than the fact that it's pre-1941.
every one of those would then still go

1474
02:00:22,400 --> 02:00:29,199
to HBC even
or is it Yeah, I guess it would have to

1475
02:00:27,920 --> 02:00:32,480
be blanket statement. Yes.
>> Yeah. I mean I think there's multiple

1476
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:35,440
options, right? So there's there's
varying degrees of how it could be

1477
02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:41,199
implemented should that be the direction
that it goes. Um because I think I also

1478
02:00:37,840 --> 02:00:45,599
hear a lot in HPC and it comes up when
these things rise to planning commission

1479
02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:49,440
of a desire. I'll just I'm going to make
something up just for fun. house is

1480
02:00:47,920 --> 02:00:52,800
totally Frankenstein, but we know what
the original house looked like. So, now

1481
02:00:51,760 --> 02:00:59,119
we're getting back to this
rehabilitation or preservation. So, we

1482
02:00:55,520 --> 02:01:05,000
may go back towards that angle, but uh
Commissioner Bernett could probably add

1483
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:05,000
some additional flavor on that.

1484
02:01:05,760 --> 02:01:15,599
All I know is that during the so-called
windshield driveby, uh, it was a if it

1485
02:01:13,199 --> 02:01:21,280
was given a plus and it was not in a
historic district at the time, it could

1486
02:01:18,800 --> 02:01:27,199
be considered a contributor if it were
in a historic district. So, it did give

1487
02:01:23,840 --> 02:01:32,719
it some qualities that yes, this house
if it were in a district, it would be

1488
02:01:29,599 --> 02:01:36,800
considered a contributor. So that was a
further definition

1489
02:01:35,440 --> 02:01:40,639
that part.
>> Okay.

1490
02:01:39,199 --> 02:01:46,080
I'm going to speak up and then you guys
can say what you think. Um I think if it

1491
02:01:43,840 --> 02:01:51,040
is not in a historic district and we
have already gone through the steps to

1492
02:01:47,679 --> 02:01:56,880
remove it from the registry, then it's
just off the registry. I think that this

1493
02:01:53,280 --> 02:02:01,920
could get excessively messy. If a house
has been Frankensteined, but we know

1494
02:01:58,639 --> 02:02:05,280
that the house from 80 years ago was
relevant, but it's not there anymore, I

1495
02:02:03,520 --> 02:02:12,239
don't see how we impose that on a
homeowner in both style, cost, and size,

1496
02:02:10,480 --> 02:02:15,719
but that is that is my thought. That
feels a little overstep.

1497
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:23,280
» I I agree with that completely. I don't
have a lot to elaborate on it, but I do

1498
02:02:19,920 --> 02:02:27,520
see it becoming very messy.
And so the the way I've been thinking

1499
02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:33,199
about it is just that let's take a house
that you know an appeal was successful.

1500
02:02:30,719 --> 02:02:36,800
It's off the registry and and you look
in that neighborhood and you see the

1501
02:02:34,719 --> 02:02:40,480
character of the neighborhood, right?
And you would say

1502
02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:46,239
maybe [clears throat] there is a desire
to really say we're going to maintain,

1503
02:02:44,400 --> 02:02:49,520
you know, you got to maintain just the
character of that neighborhood and

1504
02:02:47,599 --> 02:02:54,239
what's surrounding it. And I hate to
pick up this example because but let's

1505
02:02:52,159 --> 02:03:01,199
go build an Icler, you know, in the
middle of what was maybe um a period

1506
02:02:58,400 --> 02:03:05,599
representative neighborhood. And again,
like I say, that's the way I'm I'm not

1507
02:03:04,000 --> 02:03:09,440
suggesting that, but it's sort of one
way to look at it that you would say,

1508
02:03:07,760 --> 02:03:16,960
you know, you're taking down something
that did have at one point some value,

1509
02:03:14,239 --> 02:03:20,159
some blah blah blah, and now we, you
know, we can you replace it with

1510
02:03:18,719 --> 02:03:24,080
something that would be somewhat
historically

1511
02:03:21,679 --> 02:03:26,320
relevant, not to the box,
>> you know, not to the box, right? So

1512
02:03:25,920 --> 02:03:32,639
anyway,
>> but but we already do that. So if it if

1513
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:36,880
the idea is we then you know that house
maybe before it was Frankenstein aligned

1514
02:03:34,719 --> 02:03:41,199
with this neighborhood, we already do
that. That doesn't have to be a historic

1515
02:03:38,880 --> 02:03:45,760
thing. That's a you know neighborhood
compatibility and you look at that

1516
02:03:43,119 --> 02:03:50,960
neighborhood and say, "Okay, what makes
sense?" We try. I I think we do pretty

1517
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:54,639
good most of the time, but I mean I'd
like to know, Commissioner Mayor, what

1518
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:57,520
do you think? I mean, I think this
conversation we're having now gets to

1519
02:03:55,920 --> 02:04:02,639
the heart of sort of where the
challenges are and where the breakdown

1520
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:06,320
is in this whole entire process. And
again, I don't I don't think it it's the

1521
02:04:04,880 --> 02:04:10,000
historic districts. I think those are
well defined and I think that works

1522
02:04:07,599 --> 02:04:16,800
well. It's the pre-1941 outside the
districts. Um, you know, I know there's

1523
02:04:13,520 --> 02:04:20,639
a desire by the town and by the HPC and,
um, you know, all of us, I think, here

1524
02:04:19,280 --> 02:04:25,440
in the room tonight, you know, care
about the town and, uh, want to preserve

1525
02:04:23,360 --> 02:04:32,400
its character and we have quite a nice,
uh, architectural legacy here. Um, but

1526
02:04:30,080 --> 02:04:36,000
I think so, so there's there's a desire
to want to preserve the character,

1527
02:04:33,679 --> 02:04:41,280
right? So that lens is being used to
evaluate pre-1941 properties that come

1528
02:04:38,400 --> 02:04:46,239
before HPC to go off the registry. But
often times those uh properties that

1529
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:51,360
come are, you know, beyond repair. Uh
they're completely uh decrepit and

1530
02:04:49,280 --> 02:04:55,599
structurally unsound.
Um, so and I touched upon this in my

1531
02:04:53,920 --> 02:05:00,639
letter that was distributed as a desk
item, but I think part of the problem is

1532
02:04:58,480 --> 02:05:04,480
that when someone comes to the HPC
asking to remove it from the registry,

1533
02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:08,800
we don't know what they want to do with
it, but we know we know that they want

1534
02:05:06,560 --> 02:05:15,040
to make it easier to do something with
it, right? But there's no standard

1535
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:20,320
really aside from our residential design
guidelines to evaluate what will come

1536
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:26,480
next after it. So I think there's this
desire to want to hold on to to to the

1537
02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:32,880
character of the town and sometimes that
manifests itself in perhaps, you know,

1538
02:05:31,199 --> 02:05:37,679
unnecessarily preserving something that
is unsafe and structurally unsound. Um,

1539
02:05:35,840 --> 02:05:41,760
so I I I don't know what the answer is
to this. I'm just thinking out loud, but

1540
02:05:39,520 --> 02:05:47,440
there seems to be a breakdown at w with
this. And I think part of it is the

1541
02:05:44,800 --> 02:05:50,239
process.
>> No, agree. rather than the rather than

1542
02:05:49,199 --> 02:05:55,920
the intent.
>> Yeah. Exactly. And I mean, I can just

1543
02:05:52,000 --> 02:06:02,320
say all the years I was on HPC, you
know, it was you don't get to evaluate

1544
02:05:59,119 --> 02:06:06,639
this home based on the next home. This
home stands on its own merit, its own

1545
02:06:04,719 --> 02:06:11,520
architectural value, its own
significance. You don't get to decide

1546
02:06:09,840 --> 02:06:15,920
about this house based on the next. And
I guess I have always kind of held that

1547
02:06:13,040 --> 02:06:19,760
in mind. And I don't know if that would
be my thought, but

1548
02:06:17,119 --> 02:06:26,320
» through the chair, if I could offer to
kind of piggy back off of Commissioner

1549
02:06:22,080 --> 02:06:33,040
Mayor's statement, um I mean outside of
state laws that get around our rules and

1550
02:06:30,800 --> 02:06:35,920
guidelines, if a home's removed from the
inventory and they go through the

1551
02:06:34,400 --> 02:06:40,639
traditional process to redevelop the
property outside of a district, um we

1552
02:06:39,199 --> 02:06:46,000
obviously use the residential design
guidelines and we have a professional

1553
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:49,840
architect peer view um specifically for
neighborhood compatibility is one of the

1554
02:06:47,520 --> 02:06:55,199
components that they look at. So um I
know that the HBC loses their their

1555
02:06:51,760 --> 02:06:58,159
their lens on it. Um and I do understand
the concern there, but I just wanted to

1556
02:06:56,880 --> 02:07:02,079
make sure it's on the record that there
is not it's not a free-for-all um

1557
02:07:00,079 --> 02:07:06,400
outside of of course state laws. And I
do want to um and secondly um I was

1558
02:07:04,560 --> 02:07:10,480
handed a note from a member of the
audience that didn't get a chance to

1559
02:07:07,840 --> 02:07:15,040
speak um during the public hearing and
um would request the public hearing be

1560
02:07:13,199 --> 02:07:20,560
reopened for them to have an opportunity
to speak on the matter. That's at the

1561
02:07:17,599 --> 02:07:26,440
discretion of the chair.
>> Yeah, of course. I think we want to hear

1562
02:07:22,719 --> 02:07:26,440
what people have to say.

1563
02:07:27,679 --> 02:07:32,199
You
Lee

1564
02:07:34,800 --> 02:07:39,079
I appreciate the note on the frontly.

1565
02:07:58,079 --> 02:08:05,520
I apologize, but I caught got caught in
traffic from Jazz in the plaz and it

1566
02:08:02,960 --> 02:08:10,320
took me over 20 minutes to get here. Uh,
it wasn't the cars, it was all the pe

1567
02:08:07,679 --> 02:08:16,560
people that I had to keep stopping for.
Um, but

1568
02:08:13,440 --> 02:08:20,239
I had originally intended to come and uh
during the historic preservation

1569
02:08:18,639 --> 02:08:25,040
committee meeting, I wasn't feeling
well, so I decided not to come. I'm

1570
02:08:23,040 --> 02:08:32,639
feeling a little bit better now. And I
think I really would like to uh discuss

1571
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:36,079
a couple of things. And
it's going to be hard for me to know

1572
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:43,599
where to start, but what I've passed out
to you is the uh table of contents of a

1573
02:08:40,960 --> 02:08:49,040
report that was done by uh Anne
Bloomfield and

1574
02:08:46,480 --> 02:08:54,639
I have looked at some sections of that
report. I have put a check on the

1575
02:08:51,360 --> 02:09:01,040
sections that I have been able to read.
Uh and I have to say it was a a big

1576
02:08:58,320 --> 02:09:07,920
education. I understand a hell of a lot
more now about how the survey was

1577
02:09:04,639 --> 02:09:12,239
developed, how it was implemented and uh
the people who did it, they were not

1578
02:09:10,560 --> 02:09:17,920
nonprofessionals.
There were historians on the committee.

1579
02:09:14,800 --> 02:09:22,079
There was uh
forget her name, but she was the one who

1580
02:09:20,239 --> 02:09:27,599
started the history museum and she was
very involved in history. uh and there

1581
02:09:24,960 --> 02:09:31,119
was a member of the staff as well as
members of the historic preservation

1582
02:09:29,280 --> 02:09:39,199
committee.
What I want to start with is that once I

1583
02:09:35,920 --> 02:09:45,360
got a hold of this and was able to read
the degree of detail that went into

1584
02:09:42,079 --> 02:09:50,800
developing the survey and educating
those who were doing it that I felt it

1585
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:58,000
was really important to talk about how
the survey was rated and how it differed

1586
02:09:54,880 --> 02:10:06,159
from the way uh National Park Service
rates The things that were rated or that

1587
02:10:02,719 --> 02:10:12,000
were used to determine findings were
basically the same in both. The

1588
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:18,480
difference is that in the National Park
Service, they evaluated

1589
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:25,360
each of those four categories that we
look at individually

1590
02:10:22,159 --> 02:10:32,320
and then uh related it to the fifth
category was which was um integrity. The

1591
02:10:29,920 --> 02:10:37,840
way this was developed, it was developed
specifically because of the fact that

1592
02:10:35,360 --> 02:10:45,520
and all of that relates to going back to
that all of the National Park Service

1593
02:10:40,960 --> 02:10:51,040
criteria relate to uh structures that
are eligible for listing on the National

1594
02:10:48,400 --> 02:10:58,239
Historic Register or on the state
register. Not they're not at the level

1595
02:10:54,239 --> 02:11:05,040
of uh a small town and small town
feeling preserving that neighborhood

1596
02:11:01,440 --> 02:11:14,400
feel. Can I go on?
Two more minutes. Okay. Okay. Um and

1597
02:11:09,040 --> 02:11:19,840
what I found was that the uh process for
the survey when they actually did it,

1598
02:11:17,280 --> 02:11:24,719
the driveby was only the first phase.
Then there was quite another number of

1599
02:11:21,840 --> 02:11:32,400
phases. But looking at the criteria that
they used, she developed a criteria that

1600
02:11:28,159 --> 02:11:39,040
was based on another uh historian uh and
it rather than evaluating things

1601
02:11:34,880 --> 02:11:45,360
individually, it uh did it as a package.
They were all integrated. They were the

1602
02:11:41,280 --> 02:11:51,920
same four five basic categories. Uh and
they had 14 different things below them.

1603
02:11:47,760 --> 02:11:59,199
Each one was given a a a
rating based on a excellent, good, ve,

1604
02:11:56,079 --> 02:12:05,920
very good, good, etc. And then that was
totaled and if it was above a certain

1605
02:12:01,840 --> 02:12:12,560
number of points, uh, it was considered
as eligible for the inventory. The

1606
02:12:09,040 --> 02:12:21,199
important thing is though is that that
survey and the final rating system

1607
02:12:16,079 --> 02:12:25,440
included ratings for integrity and in
fact

1608
02:12:22,719 --> 02:12:30,719
the integrity ratings were a negative
rating. So they had a real impact on

1609
02:12:27,760 --> 02:12:36,800
whether something qualified or not. It's
not that integrity was not considered at

1610
02:12:33,760 --> 02:12:42,400
all. It's it was a totally different way
of looking at things and frankly uh

1611
02:12:40,079 --> 02:12:47,040
looking at what I've been able to read.
Uh I've really become educated. I have

1612
02:12:44,880 --> 02:12:51,280
so many more questions. I've always had
questions. That's why you you have this

1613
02:12:49,679 --> 02:12:57,920
before you in the first place. Although
I'm not speaking as a as a member of the

1614
02:12:53,599 --> 02:13:02,800
committee. Uh I was I excuse me. I'm not
representing the committee, but I was

1615
02:12:59,840 --> 02:13:11,119
the chair who requested that this all be
developed and I I would say that um God,

1616
02:13:08,159 --> 02:13:15,119
I have so much more to say. Uh
yeah, unfortunately, we we've got to get

1617
02:13:12,880 --> 02:13:19,360
to this now. So, thank you. But
>> no questions. [snorts]

1618
02:13:16,320 --> 02:13:23,560
Yeah. Any questions for the speaker?
>> Oh, thank you very much, Lee.

1619
02:13:25,840 --> 02:13:31,440
I assume I don't have to reclose this,
do I? Because Oh, I do. Okay. We're

1620
02:13:29,440 --> 02:13:37,880
reclosing the public portion of the of
this item. Okay.

1621
02:13:34,880 --> 02:13:37,880
Sure.

1622
02:13:38,719 --> 02:13:48,719
» I'd like a question to
>> Joel or Sean. Um, is there a way I mean

1623
02:13:45,920 --> 02:13:54,480
what brought up
>> I'm sorry. Is there a way that we can

1624
02:13:51,360 --> 02:13:59,440
put this into a code? I mean I I think
that's that's where we're having issues

1625
02:13:56,639 --> 02:14:05,040
here and where things get so as you were
saying squishy is we don't it's more

1626
02:14:02,639 --> 02:14:09,760
just standards or
is there a way to I mean we've talked

1627
02:14:07,199 --> 02:14:14,880
about this uh I've talked about it with
you and with Joel so and I I think there

1628
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:18,960
was a suggestion about how we could
maybe

1629
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:23,040
do that so it's a little easier to
understand and clearer for for

1630
02:14:20,880 --> 02:14:28,719
everybody.
I think the ultimate goal, should the

1631
02:14:26,000 --> 02:14:31,760
council provide us that direction, is to
see where it should live. What's the

1632
02:14:30,480 --> 02:14:37,760
appropriate place for it to live,
whether that's in the uh the town code

1633
02:14:34,639 --> 02:14:43,360
or in some other document. We again, we
don't have direction to do anything at

1634
02:14:39,520 --> 02:14:46,639
this point. Um, so we're waiting for our
opportunity to go back to council,

1635
02:14:44,800 --> 02:14:50,639
provide them some feedback, provide them
the feedback that you are giving us

1636
02:14:48,719 --> 02:14:53,199
tonight and uh, receive direction from
the council

1637
02:14:51,360 --> 02:14:56,480
» and through the chair. I think that you
know whether it's the findings,

1638
02:14:55,040 --> 02:14:59,040
definitions, whatever it is, that's
really the last bullet of discussion up

1639
02:14:58,719 --> 02:15:01,679
there.
>> Yeah, exactly.

1640
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:05,199
» And whether it belongs in the guidelines
and the code, some of it might belong in

1641
02:15:03,760 --> 02:15:08,400
both, some of it might belong in one
rather than the other, right?

1642
02:15:06,400 --> 02:15:11,520
» Um, so should we get that direction then
we would look into

1643
02:15:10,239 --> 02:15:16,079
going through that process.
>> Okay. Thank you. Commissioner Sordy,

1644
02:15:14,320 --> 02:15:19,199
» add kind of a followup on that because
um hopefully this isn't outside the

1645
02:15:18,159 --> 02:15:25,119
bounds of what we're sort of talking
about, but we have these pre-1941 houses

1646
02:15:21,280 --> 02:15:29,440
come up. The findings that we use are um
I think in a couple different places.

1647
02:15:26,639 --> 02:15:32,480
They're mostly um they mostly live in
the residential design guidelines, but I

1648
02:15:31,440 --> 02:15:36,000
don't think a single one of those
findings is actually an ordinance. And

1649
02:15:34,639 --> 02:15:41,040
almost every single time we make a
decision as a commission, we do so based

1650
02:15:38,239 --> 02:15:44,880
on findings that make direct reference
to ordinances. And so it's really a

1651
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:48,960
legal question. I guess I'm first of
all, I'm wondering if we've ever been

1652
02:15:46,239 --> 02:15:54,880
challenged in court on a determination
related to a pre-1941 house. And if not,

1653
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:59,119
maybe the town attorney can vent your
guess about how difficult it would be to

1654
02:15:57,040 --> 02:16:03,199
win such a case if somebody challenged
the decision. Um it's probably not

1655
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:07,199
appropriate to answer your second
question in this setting, but um what

1656
02:16:05,520 --> 02:16:10,480
we're doing right now is the code
references the residential design

1657
02:16:08,719 --> 02:16:16,000
guidelines and then the residential
design guidelines in turn reference the

1658
02:16:13,199 --> 02:16:21,440
other standards that the town uses. Um
so it is more tenuous than is ideal and

1659
02:16:18,639 --> 02:16:25,239
so ideally the town code would include
it codified.

1660
02:16:26,480 --> 02:16:38,359
» Okay. Um all right. So then I the
adopting pre1941 to a seven-year rolling

1661
02:16:34,960 --> 02:16:38,359
commissioner sorty.

1662
02:16:38,880 --> 02:16:48,000
» What does that mean?
>> I can jump in on that. So when um the

1663
02:16:45,760 --> 02:16:52,800
decisions were being made as to what the
historic inventory was going to include,

1664
02:16:50,800 --> 02:17:00,000
there was a conversation at that time
about what the um appropriate sort of

1665
02:16:55,840 --> 02:17:04,479
benchmark was. Um for example, SQA uses
50 years as something that needs to be

1666
02:17:02,559 --> 02:17:10,639
looked at for potential impacts to a
historic resource and its environmental

1667
02:17:06,240 --> 02:17:16,880
implications. Um, so obviously, um, in
1980 that would have been a 1930 home.

1668
02:17:12,800 --> 02:17:20,719
Um, but now that's a 1976 home. Um, so
that conversation was had. I found some

1669
02:17:18,559 --> 02:17:26,319
record of that in the minutes. And what
they decided was that the pre 1941 was

1670
02:17:24,719 --> 02:17:33,519
the date. It was a hard date rather than
a rolling date, which in changes every

1671
02:17:28,559 --> 02:17:37,840
year. And that was based on the um year
that the town had the first

1672
02:17:35,200 --> 02:17:43,120
comprehensive set of assessment tax
assessment records for the town.

1673
02:17:40,240 --> 02:17:47,359
» Okay. So if we applied to it to today,
it would be like 1956 if I'm doing my

1674
02:17:45,359 --> 02:17:51,040
math right.
>> I mean at the time it's just sort of

1675
02:17:49,120 --> 02:17:58,080
circumstantial that
>> when they adopted pre-41 it was about 50

1676
02:17:53,760 --> 02:18:02,240
years ahead. Um but the they had a
specific discussion about that in the

1677
02:18:00,080 --> 02:18:04,399
minutes. Um and that it wasn't about the
fifth years, it was about the tax

1678
02:18:03,359 --> 02:18:07,840
assessment records.
>> Right. I'm just saying if we instituted

1679
02:18:06,160 --> 02:18:11,200
it today, that's essentially what it
means. We would take today's date minus

1680
02:18:09,840 --> 02:18:13,120
70 and we would
>> that would be the threshold.

1681
02:18:12,240 --> 02:18:16,599
» 1956.
>> Yeah. Okay.

1682
02:18:17,280 --> 02:18:22,559
» Okay. Commissioner stop.
>> So how did the council arrive at 70

1683
02:18:20,800 --> 02:18:26,960
years?
This was just a number that was thrown

1684
02:18:24,800 --> 02:18:32,439
out. I'm, you know, sure it's open to
significant discussion should they

1685
02:18:28,800 --> 02:18:32,439
should they get there.

1686
02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:43,040
» I agree it should be updated. I'm trying
to wrap my head around because a lot of

1687
02:18:40,399 --> 02:18:49,519
the houses in this town were built in
like what the 50s 60s that there's a

1688
02:18:47,200 --> 02:18:53,200
point where damn near sorry every house
in town would have to go to the historic

1689
02:18:51,760 --> 02:18:58,399
preservation committee and that is
overwhelming.

1690
02:18:55,920 --> 02:19:03,760
It is. That's a lot of houses. Every
single one of them should not go to the

1691
02:19:00,319 --> 02:19:08,639
historic preservation committee.
So I don't know if the idea is while we

1692
02:19:06,080 --> 02:19:08,639
may

1693
02:19:10,000 --> 02:19:14,240
maybe [clears throat]
change the date or something. Then

1694
02:19:12,880 --> 02:19:22,080
there'd have to be some tightening
around what would those still be

1695
02:19:18,160 --> 02:19:25,920
considered historically relevant because
I I live next to a lot of houses that

1696
02:19:24,160 --> 02:19:31,439
were built in the 60s and I promise you
they're not historically relevant.

1697
02:19:28,960 --> 02:19:36,960
So I like they're just Yeah. How would
we do this? Well, I think um like

1698
02:19:34,559 --> 02:19:41,280
there's a group right off of Lascas
Boulevard. It's the Ikler homes. I mean,

1699
02:19:39,280 --> 02:19:46,160
there's a whole little street full of
Ikler homes and that could be captured.

1700
02:19:44,240 --> 02:19:48,960
I doubt that we would look at every
house in the near in the town, but I

1701
02:19:48,720 --> 02:19:54,399
mean,
>> but who if we go to a rolling program,

1702
02:19:51,680 --> 02:19:59,680
somebody has to get paid to assess that.
>> Yeah. Well, Saratoga does. I mean, you

1703
02:19:56,479 --> 02:20:02,560
you would have members that you would
have certain standards, certain

1704
02:20:01,040 --> 02:20:06,800
guidelines, certain kinds of
construction. Like I say, the Icler

1705
02:20:04,720 --> 02:20:09,280
homes, there's I think eight or nine of
them there.

1706
02:20:07,359 --> 02:20:12,080
» Well, wouldn't it almost be easier to
say if we're going to say we should do a

1707
02:20:10,800 --> 02:20:14,960
better survey, like we're going to
update this and we're going to do

1708
02:20:13,040 --> 02:20:16,160
survey, we just roll some of those into
it.

1709
02:20:15,439 --> 02:20:22,000
» Yeah.
>> Instead of saying

1710
02:20:19,040 --> 02:20:26,640
every track house that was built in the
60s is historic because that's what this

1711
02:20:24,560 --> 02:20:31,439
means. No, that wouldn't
>> Yeah, I would rather we take and spend

1712
02:20:30,000 --> 02:20:35,359
some good money on somebody just going
through and reevaluating houses and

1713
02:20:32,880 --> 02:20:40,319
adding houses to the registry than
>> this. This does not feel appropriate,

1714
02:20:38,399 --> 02:20:43,359
but I will take arguments if you guys
have any, but

1715
02:20:42,000 --> 02:20:46,000
» no, it would be definitely
>> Commissioner Mayor is going to volunteer

1716
02:20:44,720 --> 02:20:49,120
to be the person that evaluates every
one of them. I just

1717
02:20:46,960 --> 02:20:52,720
» I agree with the chair on your
assessment. I don't think changing the

1718
02:20:50,960 --> 02:20:56,640
year or implementing a rolling clock is
going to solve the problems that we're

1719
02:20:55,040 --> 02:21:03,359
trying to solve here. It could
potentially make it worse. Um, so I

1720
02:21:00,720 --> 02:21:07,920
don't think changing the year is is the
issue and I I know there was probably is

1721
02:21:06,399 --> 02:21:12,319
going to be some action by the council
and it's going to have to be very well

1722
02:21:10,720 --> 02:21:16,720
considered because the resources are
limited, right? So I I think we should

1723
02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:20,399
keep that in mind as well that the
town's resources are limited and where

1724
02:21:18,399 --> 02:21:25,200
do we want to
take that I I

1725
02:21:22,960 --> 02:21:29,280
you know there's been I'm sorry to go
back up to the bullet point about the

1726
02:21:26,399 --> 02:21:35,040
Bloom Bloomfield survey but that also
feels like it could be cost prohibitive.

1727
02:21:30,880 --> 02:21:42,800
I'd rather the town's resources be spent
more specifically on when something does

1728
02:21:38,000 --> 02:21:46,720
come to uh HPC and there's, you know,
questions about, you know, should this

1729
02:21:45,280 --> 02:21:53,280
stay on the registry or should it be
taken off, you know, I'd rather town's

1730
02:21:48,880 --> 02:21:58,000
resources be utilized to consult an
expert on that sort of thing because

1731
02:21:56,399 --> 02:22:01,680
instead, you know, because they're not
all all the pre-1941s outside of

1732
02:22:00,160 --> 02:22:08,880
historic districts are not coming all at
the same time, right? They kind of come

1733
02:22:03,680 --> 02:22:11,760
one by one. So, uh I think that I I I
personally would rather the town's

1734
02:22:10,240 --> 02:22:15,840
resources be spent on that. But I do
think the second bullet point, the

1735
02:22:13,439 --> 02:22:21,120
historic district, I think perhaps
looking at expanding uh that looking

1736
02:22:19,280 --> 02:22:25,760
back at what was previously assessed
might be also a good use of resources.

1737
02:22:23,600 --> 02:22:30,640
» Yeah, I agree with you completely. That
makes a lot more sense.

1738
02:22:28,560 --> 02:22:35,359
» Any other comments?
commissioners. All right.

1739
02:22:33,520 --> 02:22:40,479
So then updating and clarifying
definitions and required findings for

1740
02:22:37,359 --> 02:22:44,800
determining a historic status.
So I'm going to be candid. There's only

1741
02:22:42,720 --> 02:22:49,840
one person that sits up here that I feel
is qualified,

1742
02:22:47,200 --> 02:22:54,160
you know, professionally to probably
talk about some of the,

1743
02:22:52,640 --> 02:23:00,720
you know, the nuances at least
architecturally of this. I do think all

1744
02:22:58,479 --> 02:23:03,359
of us agree they need to be updated and
I know that you've got some comments I

1745
02:23:02,319 --> 02:23:08,560
think you've thought about you should
make

1746
02:23:06,080 --> 02:23:12,240
but I actually like the idea of maybe
getting other other people that are I

1747
02:23:11,040 --> 02:23:18,640
could talk to you about the structural
components of it and everything all day

1748
02:23:14,479 --> 02:23:23,120
but I don't know this just feels like
only thing I'd be comfortable saying is

1749
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:25,040
yes we should but commissioner sorty did
you have anything you wanted to add

1750
02:23:24,080 --> 02:23:27,280
because you were talking about this
earlier

1751
02:23:28,720 --> 02:23:37,600
today earlier or at a different area.
>> Oh, just related to the five findings.

1752
02:23:35,439 --> 02:23:42,120
The typical use of the five findings.
Yeah, I mean only that um

1753
02:23:42,479 --> 02:23:50,399
yeah I well part of it is just process.
Um, I think that

1754
02:23:48,080 --> 02:23:54,080
all it says, our direction generally is
all it says is that you shall consider

1755
02:23:52,000 --> 02:23:59,920
these five things and there's no
specific direction that says you shall

1756
02:23:56,080 --> 02:24:05,040
make a positive determination regarding
all five. And so I just find it

1757
02:24:02,720 --> 02:24:09,120
generally inconsistent or I don't know,
maybe just difficult to wrap my brain

1758
02:24:06,399 --> 02:24:13,600
around. Sometimes the determination that
a house should not be taken off the

1759
02:24:10,640 --> 02:24:19,280
register revolves around the opinion of
the HPC that one particular finding

1760
02:24:17,680 --> 02:24:25,120
can't be met but the other four clearly
are. And so just the logic of it I find

1761
02:24:22,640 --> 02:24:30,160
challenging. And then more than that I
think other commissioners have shared

1762
02:24:27,200 --> 02:24:33,760
this opinion that it's it does feel a
little biased. it does feel a little bit

1763
02:24:31,760 --> 02:24:37,359
like the opinions coming from an
advocacy point of view and not

1764
02:24:35,040 --> 02:24:42,960
necessarily an objective party
evaluating those findings and

1765
02:24:40,640 --> 02:24:47,120
um and weighing in and having that
objective party of course be qualified

1766
02:24:44,720 --> 02:24:52,080
to make the determination. So that's
been my feeling in almost every case

1767
02:24:48,560 --> 02:24:57,680
when we're faced with um removing a a
house from the 1941, you know, pre-1941

1768
02:24:54,960 --> 02:25:01,359
list. So
those are my comments.

1769
02:24:58,880 --> 02:25:04,000
» Yeah. Anything to add, Commissioner
Mayor?

1770
02:25:02,319 --> 02:25:08,080
» Yeah, I mean I do think the comment
earlier about, you know, getting a round

1771
02:25:06,160 --> 02:25:12,160
table of local architects to give their
input is a really important part of

1772
02:25:09,520 --> 02:25:16,479
this, but even beyond architects,
there's a a special discipline called

1773
02:25:14,880 --> 02:25:20,240
historic preservation, and there are
professionals trained specifically in

1774
02:25:17,920 --> 02:25:25,600
historic preservation. So, I definitely
think, you know, there should be some

1775
02:25:22,160 --> 02:25:30,800
resources allocated to consulting with
those folks.

1776
02:25:26,880 --> 02:25:34,560
» I I agree. Any other comments? Anything
else? I mean, we touched on everything.

1777
02:25:33,280 --> 02:25:40,560
Is there anything else that you guys
want to fall back and talk about before

1778
02:25:37,120 --> 02:25:46,319
we close this topic?
No.

1779
02:25:42,319 --> 02:25:49,280
Then I'm going to ask staff, did that,
at least as far as this getting passed

1780
02:25:47,760 --> 02:25:53,280
on, did that give you what you need or
is there anything that you maybe still

1781
02:25:51,200 --> 02:25:58,080
had in your mind that needed to perhaps
our thoughts be clarified?

1782
02:25:55,520 --> 02:26:03,120
» Uh, no. I think you know the aim was to
have a discussion. So a discussion's

1783
02:25:59,680 --> 02:26:09,120
been had. Um I will daylight that any
guidance provided from the council is

1784
02:26:05,760 --> 02:26:13,600
very likely once we start getting
work together um to make its way through

1785
02:26:11,920 --> 02:26:17,040
the historic preservation committee and
the planning commission before it goes

1786
02:26:14,960 --> 02:26:20,960
to the the council. Um that's what I
envision. Obviously it depends on the

1787
02:26:18,479 --> 02:26:24,560
the direction of the council. Um so this
is a a discussion that again this

1788
02:26:22,880 --> 02:26:28,880
information will be provided to the
council. um as we move forward and uh we

1789
02:26:27,600 --> 02:26:33,200
look forward to receiving their
direction.

1790
02:26:30,000 --> 02:26:37,280
» Thank you, Mr. Mullen. All right, we
will now Is there a report from the

1791
02:26:35,120 --> 02:26:41,040
director of community development?
>> No report this evening.

1792
02:26:38,560 --> 02:26:44,319
» All right. Any any subcommittee reports?
I know you do.

1793
02:26:42,479 --> 02:26:50,479
» Yes, we had a historic preservation
committee meeting this afternoon. There

1794
02:26:47,120 --> 02:26:56,000
were uh three items and one business
other business. Um, two of the items we

1795
02:26:53,920 --> 02:26:59,520
would we were not able to hear because
we didn't have a quorum. So, we ended up

1796
02:26:57,840 --> 02:27:05,760
with one which was to remove the
property from the historic inventory and

1797
02:27:02,399 --> 02:27:12,080
it was uni unanimously voted to remove
it. It did not have it did not meet the

1798
02:27:09,120 --> 02:27:19,200
five criteria. So, it was removed and
then another business it was just a

1799
02:27:15,200 --> 02:27:25,840
preliminary review uh to uh for exterior
modifications. this person had come back

1800
02:27:22,000 --> 02:27:31,280
three times and so we arrived at a good
solution for him. So that that was all

1801
02:27:29,520 --> 02:27:34,800
» good. Great.
>> Yeah. Please go ahead.

1802
02:27:32,640 --> 02:27:37,920
» Can I ask the director to just give us a
little update on some of the

1803
02:27:36,479 --> 02:27:43,200
applications we saw recently that have
made it to council. I think Oka Road

1804
02:27:40,240 --> 02:27:47,200
went last week and Twin Oaks
just where they stand. And

1805
02:27:44,560 --> 02:27:53,439
» yeah, I think we discussed Twin Oaks and
Oka at the last meeting. Um but uh so

1806
02:27:50,720 --> 02:27:58,720
just for further information because I
can't we've had so many meetings this

1807
02:27:55,040 --> 02:28:05,840
month. Um Ochre Road was approved by the
the council. Um Twin Oaks was continued

1808
02:28:04,479 --> 02:28:10,080
and requested some additional
information, not too date certain. Um so

1809
02:28:08,399 --> 02:28:14,880
we will be working with the applicant
and consultants to get some additional

1810
02:28:11,680 --> 02:28:20,560
information. And then last week uh also
the West Valley Muslim Association was

1811
02:28:17,120 --> 02:28:25,520
open just for the matter to discuss
requested continuences. So ultimately

1812
02:28:22,960 --> 02:28:30,399
that was continued to a date uncertain I
believe as well. Um so those will still

1813
02:28:27,760 --> 02:28:34,800
Twin Oaks and the West Valley Muslim
Association are to be continued.

1814
02:28:33,520 --> 02:28:37,600
» Thank you.
>> All right. Any other commission matters?

1815
02:28:36,560 --> 02:28:42,080
Commissioner Stump.
>> This would just be a followup. U Mr.

1816
02:28:39,920 --> 02:28:47,600
Pollson,
do you see any possibility of the West

1817
02:28:45,280 --> 02:28:51,760
Valley Muslim Association being remanded
back to the commission? [clears throat]

1818
02:28:49,920 --> 02:28:55,800
I'd never venture a guess, but that is
one of the options on the table.

1819
02:28:57,280 --> 02:29:05,399
» Okay. Um, if there's no other
commissioner matters, the meeting is

1820
02:29:01,600 --> 02:29:05,399
adjourned. Thank you.