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this conference will now be recorded

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and uh and where did that voice come

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from

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that that was me john i'm just turning

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on the recording

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part of our uh um system is that we'll

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record these meetings and upload them

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because we're not streaming this live so

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we're recording the meeting and that was

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me

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don't you because we have had two

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meetings before

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without it being recorded don't you

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think it would be

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appropriate to ask this task force

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whether or not they want the meeting to

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be recorded

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i believe it was included in the agenda

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that

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because no one can physically show up as

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would normally be the ability people

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could show up to a meeting because it's

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published on our website

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in lieu of that what we do is we record

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the meetings and then

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upload them after the fact which is one

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step down from what we do with council

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where we live stream them

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and record them so this is kind of a

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compromise because it takes less uh

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staff to do this than it does to live

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stream

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nevertheless um i'll ask everybody

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whether or not they have any objection

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to having the meeting recorded

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at this particular point uh it's bob

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none

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no objections hearing none we'll proceed

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so welcome everyone for objection

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um i'm assuming then that everybody has

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a copy of the agenda so we can review

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the agenda

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anything that people would like to see

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added uh and if they don't have a copy

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of the agenda in front of them uh just

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pipe up now and i'll make sure it's on

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the

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uh agenda it's bob i have uh one one

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thing here

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you have uh near the bottom of the

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agenda draft final resolutions you have

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two of them

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uh tonight i'm going to propose a third

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so i i don't know um

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if i should just say give you notice now

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that i will

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propose a third uh uh final resolution

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at that point in time thank you very

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much

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i'll i'll record that and we'll get to

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that in order very good

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so uh approval of the minutes from the

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previous meeting

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any uh any changes additions deletions

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uh none in all moves that they be

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approved here oh that's very good

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uh second done

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uh

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so the general topics that have been

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originally assigned to the task force as

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if we need reminding of this

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at this point are the ranked ballot

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voting matter

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and the ward system voting matter

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in relation to the first of these

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uh i just note as everyone knows

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uh this was an option that has now been

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foreclosed

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by uh royal assent of bill uh

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218 nevertheless

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i have been advised uh verbally

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by the mayor that in a report

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which i'll speak to later which we will

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uh

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assemble up for tabling with council

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uh we will uh

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go through some of the pros and cons of

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that and perhaps

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uh as well uh reach a resolution

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of the task force to advise council on

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so it's uh although it's off the table

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it's still on our table uh

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does anybody have anything they'd like

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to uh

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in terms of procedural matters to uh

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to add on to these two major topics

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that we're uh still

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being asked to report on to cancel

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very good so uh item five on the agenda

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is

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i i wanted this on just to to

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give the task force members a chance

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just to

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recap given the interval of uh

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well perhaps half a global pandemic

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in time to recall that i think we've had

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um representations externally

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to date only by uh

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sharon martin who attended one of the

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meetings

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and ralph mantello who attended one of

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the meetings

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uh both of them expressed themselves

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quite clearly

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on the two topics um uh

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neither of them to my knowledge i was

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hoping peter

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king would be on board to confirm here

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uh none of them tabled uh

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written remarks uh

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so our our re recollections of those

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will have to stand at this particular

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point uh

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as we uh make reference to them

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in a draft report or we can we can firm

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those up

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if and when the opportunity arises to do

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so

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right but uh we've had uh

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i think some discussion about both of

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these topics

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but i think it's fair to say that the

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meetings in which the counselors

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attended

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were fairly general in nature and were

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really

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seeking the advice and opinions

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of the two counselors uh and i think

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those representations took up most of

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the meetings as

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in my own recollection of it

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so um are there any other

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comments that people would like to offer

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at this particular

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point uh stefan bob oh

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peter king has signed on

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if peter can hear us if you hit your

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speaker button that would be much

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appreciated

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or that using the new word that's been

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introduced to the english language

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unmute yourself very good peter how are

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you the evening

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peter can you hear me

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can anyone still hear me i i can hear

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you john

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yes joan

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[Music]

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well pierce if peter has the same delay

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involved in his uh uh connections

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uh then perhaps he will come live with

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us

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in a moment or two i think we all

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experienced a little bit of delay here

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right so that's john john

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um may i make a suggestion in the agenda

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we would talk first about ranked ballot

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and second about award system voting

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my suggestion is to reverse the sequence

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uh my suggestion is that we first make a

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decision

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whether we would go for a ward system or

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not

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because that will strongly influence um

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when we talk about the ranked ballot

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uh i'm i i will i will uh

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what do you think about that bob i don't

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care which order

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these are spoken about in particular and

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i must confess

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steph and you'll have to enlighten me

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later about how

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these are uh connected but uh yes

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i gladly do that and you yeah

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do you mind them being spoken of in in

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that order

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absolutely not no um

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it's possible though that my suggestion

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for a third resolution

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uh makes all of this uh mute

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but um you you've all received the

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the material that i prepared with some

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suggestions uh and some

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information my feelings about ward

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system so

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i i'm happy to talk about it whenever

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you want

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yeah and stuff and i would um

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i would um maybe interject

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here that uh

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i had a very enlightening conversation

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with the mayor

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who who uh let me know

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that uh in her opinion

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our uh forwarding to council

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for their uh perusal

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a uh a summary report

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on these two subject matters in addition

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to

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any resolutions we may want to take on

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these two items

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uh is what uh would be most useful to

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counsel

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and uh and with that in mind maybe i'll

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just

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skip ahead just to put that into context

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uh

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stefan i i would propose

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you know uh as one of the later action

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items that

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that i can at least um start

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a you know a first draft of some sort of

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report

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which you know briefly

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uh recapitulates the

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pros and cons of these around these two

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matters

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and then deals with the matter

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of resolutions that the task force may

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take on that

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now i'm getting a call here from peter

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king an email

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saying he can't connect

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and uh although it says

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he's connected here perhaps i'll get

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back to him and just ask him if he would

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try again

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[Music]

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please try again

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assistant has uh vacated the premises

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is is fred no gone still here

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oh very good thank you fred okay

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well maybe i should ask

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him as well whether peter is hearing me

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oh what

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perhaps i should just give up yeah

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uh now where am i

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do you want to take a minute and see if

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we can sort peter out john

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he would appreciate it i'm sure i don't

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quite

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i'm sure you have his email so

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so first of all peter if you can hear me

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i see that you've got your mic

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on uh but if

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we can't hear you or you hopefully you

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can hear us

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try logging out initially and then

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logging back in if you log in

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please be sure you're using the chrome

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browser

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and we'll try that as a first step that

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does

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isn't successful we'll we'll see what we

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can do from there

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so please try to log out peter and

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re-log in and ensure you're using chrome

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as your browser

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great and while he's doing that john i

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don't know if you want to carry on with

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the meeting or not

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and i will email

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so the reason i mentioned that uh stefan

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is that

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uh i think getting a report together

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and uh especially in peter's absence

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it wouldn't be appropriate for us to

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move to

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taking a resolution or a vote on a

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resolution

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on either of these matters uh with only

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three of us

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on board i mean we could do so but uh

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it would be i think uh

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impolite to peter when all that's

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standing between

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us and communication with peter is

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probably a telephone call

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so uh ah looks like peter is tuned out

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and may be tuning back in again

291
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,680
yeah yeah uh john um i

292
00:13:40,399 --> 00:13:45,360
wholeheartedly agree with you and maybe

293
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:47,440
we can use the time

294
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,279
for me to give you a reason why i was

295
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:52,560
asking for the reverse

296
00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:52,560
of the agenda

297
00:13:52,639 --> 00:13:59,199
first reason is that the

298
00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:02,240
ranked ballot is more or less an fyi

299
00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:03,600
for our council because as we are by now

300
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,720
aware

301
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:10,320
that voting system is now illegal

302
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:12,880
or not possible in ontario so

303
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:14,959
the real decision the meet and bone of

304
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,519
the meeting going forward in the short

305
00:14:14,959 --> 00:14:19,120
term

306
00:14:15,519 --> 00:14:22,399
will be award system yes or no

307
00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:25,519
if yes three or four wards

308
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:28,720
so once we get this behind us

309
00:14:25,519 --> 00:14:30,079
then it may have some influence on the

310
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,600
ranked ballot

311
00:14:30,079 --> 00:14:35,360
um because uh maybe

312
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,600
a ranked ballot system may be more

313
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:41,279
appropriate for a non-war

314
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:44,399
system or for award system depend

315
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:46,720
so my suggestion is let's uh

316
00:14:44,399 --> 00:14:47,519
move on first with the discussion

317
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,639
regarding

318
00:14:47,519 --> 00:14:53,680
ward system yes or no point two

319
00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:55,920
three or four awards and then

320
00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,720
go on to rank ballot that's just a

321
00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,320
suggestion

322
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:03,199
that seems to me logical and uh

323
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,240
and clear i'm also basing that on bob

324
00:15:03,199 --> 00:15:06,560
mcrae's

325
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,000
notes which he sent to us which i

326
00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:12,959
absolutely like

327
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:16,560
and that totally makes sense to me

328
00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:17,360
uh i hear yes stefan but i i i just say

329
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,279
once more

330
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:21,680
that uh i think we should have this

331
00:15:19,279 --> 00:15:24,800
discussion of the ward system voting

332
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:28,480
yeah when's when uh sharon

333
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:31,279
and ralph mantello were visiting

334
00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,920
and making their representations they

335
00:15:31,279 --> 00:15:35,519
spoke

336
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:38,720
uh very emphatically against

337
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:42,000
a award voting system and

338
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:45,360
has given us at least the rudimentary

339
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:48,720
rationale for why they thought so

340
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:53,600
to uh balance with that we've got

341
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:57,600
a very succinct uh uh description

342
00:15:53,600 --> 00:16:02,079
by bob mccray of what positive merits

343
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:05,759
are in in his uh viewpoint so

344
00:16:02,079 --> 00:16:09,440
um i i think

345
00:16:05,759 --> 00:16:12,480
we can frame up the pros and cons

346
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:13,440
in a kind of a report manner but we're

347
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,959
still

348
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,959
i think going to uh

349
00:16:18,639 --> 00:16:24,000
not be able to resolve the matter of

350
00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:26,800
reward system voting in terms of a

351
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,800
resolution from the task force

352
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:30,320
without peter on board i just don't

353
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:33,839
think when we're

354
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,920
down from five uh

355
00:16:33,839 --> 00:16:37,680
because someone stepped off the task

356
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:41,839
force to go down to

357
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:44,560
three uh just because of we're not using

358
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:45,920
a platform like zoom which seems to be

359
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:49,440
so much more efficient

360
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:52,639
so it's it's to penalize

361
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:55,920
uh peter john

362
00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:56,480
i totally agree i totally agree and i

363
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,120
even

364
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:02,000
would even suggest uh and you make a

365
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:04,720
good point if peter is unable to join

366
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:05,919
i suggest we close the meeting

367
00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,319
reschedule it

368
00:17:05,919 --> 00:17:09,360
and i have to chuckle right this is one

369
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,880
of the things

370
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:12,880
where i'm torn between being a

371
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:16,000
politician and

372
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:18,559
the president of a private corporation

373
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,000
i have not been in a go-to meeting for

374
00:17:18,559 --> 00:17:22,720
probably a year

375
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:24,400
so why is the public sector using a

376
00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:27,439
technology

377
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,160
so yes let's resume meetings and let's

378
00:17:27,439 --> 00:17:30,799
move on

379
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,679
you know i agree with these and this is

380
00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:33,520
kind of like

381
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:36,160
the most primitive of the primitive new

382
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,160
technologies

383
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:43,840
yes paul so it's it's uh

384
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:46,640
grillman here yes so no

385
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:48,240
john i'm not i'm not going to entertain

386
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,960
uh stefan's uh

387
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:52,400
idea about cutting off at this

388
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:56,000
particular point

389
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:59,280
i really appreciate the fact that you

390
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:02,320
john creelman and sharon martin have

391
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,919
have uh tuned in to this meeting again

392
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:09,039
and i would like uh to at least

393
00:18:05,919 --> 00:18:10,000
let us fulfill this item six on the

394
00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:13,600
agenda

395
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:16,799
which is to welcome uh

396
00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:19,200
john and sharon if she wants to uh

397
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:20,960
to make a representation on these two

398
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:24,000
subject matters

399
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,840
and to emphasize to both of you that

400
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,720
we would really appreciate those

401
00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:32,960
representations

402
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:35,760
if you could as well send them to us

403
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,960
in writing in abbreviated form and i

404
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,280
will make sure that those

405
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,360
representations are reflected

406
00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,640
in whatever draft report we bring

407
00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:45,600
forward to council

408
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,280
so i'll turn it over to you john i just

409
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,120
wanted to make sure you knew the chair

410
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:53,280
was not going to cut you off

411
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:55,360
uh mid meeting i appreciate that

412
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,520
uh first and foremost i don't think you

413
00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:59,280
should be feeling pressure to make

414
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:03,280
decisions tonight

415
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:05,600
on anything this is a process that may

416
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:08,720
take a few meetings to

417
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:11,760
to work itself out and

418
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,880
i am not of the view that you should

419
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:17,919
um be bigfooted by

420
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,240
the opinions of members of council on

421
00:19:17,919 --> 00:19:21,840
this

422
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:25,120
issue including myself

423
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,679
uh you were appointed as an independent

424
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:31,360
task force to look at the issue

425
00:19:27,679 --> 00:19:34,720
and to make recommendations to us uh

426
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:37,760
we can make submissions to you

427
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:42,000
and you are perfectly free in my opinion

428
00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:45,280
to ignore them so having said that

429
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,080
i'd like to speak to the two

430
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:50,320
issues that are are before you number

431
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:53,360
one the the rank ballot

432
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,320
and number two the ward system uh the

433
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:58,080
rank ballot

434
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,640
has been um unceremoniously taken off

435
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,480
the

436
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:03,120
the table by the provincial government

437
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,080
and i think some background is required

438
00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:06,960
here

439
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,440
uh it was originally provided for in the

440
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,760
municipal elections act by the former

441
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:14,080
liberal government uh the only

442
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:17,120
municipality to avail itself

443
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:19,919
of the opportunity to uh elect

444
00:20:17,120 --> 00:20:21,440
a council by way of rank ballot was the

445
00:20:19,919 --> 00:20:23,520
city of london

446
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,880
i think the consensus was

447
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:29,679
notwithstanding a little

448
00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:31,760
a few bumps in the road it was a success

449
00:20:29,679 --> 00:20:34,400
there were two other municipalities that

450
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:38,000
voted by way of referendum

451
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:41,440
to adopt a rank ballot

452
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:44,720
process in the next municipal election

453
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:48,080
city of kingston being one and i believe

454
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:49,440
cambridge being the other the actions of

455
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,480
the provincial government

456
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:55,520
and we have no idea uh who

457
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:59,039
prompted these they came from absolutely

458
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:01,280
out of the blue uh not only said that

459
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:03,200
ranked ballot was no longer an option

460
00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:06,240
for anyone considering it

461
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:08,159
but it was no longer an option for the

462
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:11,360
two municipalities

463
00:21:08,159 --> 00:21:14,840
that wanted to proceed by way of their

464
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:17,360
elector's will that being kingston and

465
00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,000
cambridge and the city of london was

466
00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:23,200
precluded from using the process

467
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,200
a second time

468
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:30,480
i'm a supporter of it i think that

469
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,559
it does a number of things and again i i

470
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,559
preface my comments by saying

471
00:21:32,559 --> 00:21:36,559
that you're an independent task force

472
00:21:34,559 --> 00:21:38,720
you can make whatever recommendations

473
00:21:36,559 --> 00:21:41,840
you wish to counsel

474
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:45,679
and i don't want to give you the

475
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:48,240
impression that you have to follow

476
00:21:45,679 --> 00:21:49,440
the submissions of individual members of

477
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,320
council here

478
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:54,400
but red ballot has not true because you

479
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:58,080
said that twice now john let me just

480
00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:01,520
tell you that you are not to mistake

481
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:04,960
my politeness with counselor

482
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:06,960
for any agreement with their positions

483
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,000
on my part

484
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,960
okay fair enough uh just back to rank

485
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,240
ballot

486
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,039
uh ranked ballot in one form or another

487
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:18,480
is used

488
00:22:15,039 --> 00:22:22,240
all over the world uh it has

489
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:25,840
several different approaches one is

490
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:28,240
the election runoff where a candidate

491
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:30,400
does not acquire 50 percent and there is

492
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,400
a second round of voting

493
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,720
we are witnessing that in the state of

494
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:38,840
georgia as we speak

495
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:42,320
uh ranked ballot is used in the state of

496
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:44,240
maine that's a two-round election

497
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,600
like they're running georgia right now

498
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,840
like they run in french

499
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,799
france for the presidential elections

500
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:54,880
that is not

501
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:58,240
talking about we're talking about uh

502
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,120
the principle is the same it is somebody

503
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,159
has to get

504
00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:05,760
more than 50 of the vote

505
00:23:02,159 --> 00:23:06,640
uh and the the mechanism to get there is

506
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,200
different

507
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,600
you can have a runoff election or you

508
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,640
can have a ranked ballot that allocates

509
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,880
votes

510
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,400
but the principle is the same and i say

511
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,640
this only because

512
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:19,440
this is not some kind of foreign or

513
00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:22,480
strange

514
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:25,280
alien process

515
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,720
it's used worldwide yes the goal is the

516
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,679
same i agree with you on that

517
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,559
the goal is the same exactly uh the

518
00:23:29,679 --> 00:23:32,960
other thing that

519
00:23:30,559 --> 00:23:34,159
rank ballot has demonstrated time and

520
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:38,159
time again

521
00:23:34,159 --> 00:23:41,840
is that it it uh encourages

522
00:23:38,159 --> 00:23:45,200
more people to run uh people

523
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,880
think uh maybe incorrectly that they

524
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,279
stand a better chance

525
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:50,159
of getting elected through a ranked

526
00:23:49,279 --> 00:23:53,760
ballot

527
00:23:50,159 --> 00:23:57,200
situation uh where

528
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:58,240
second choice is given credit uh as

529
00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,320
opposed to being

530
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:03,200
totally ignored then a first pass the

531
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,640
pro

532
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,600
first pass the pro opposed process

533
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:10,080
the other thing that rank ballot does is

534
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,360
that it

535
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:17,279
encourages a civilized election

536
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:20,400
and as much as everyone is trying to be

537
00:24:17,279 --> 00:24:24,080
everyone the second choice of

538
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:26,159
the electorate okay so you're not only

539
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,080
campaigning in your own right

540
00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:29,200
but you're trying to demonstrate to the

541
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,400
electorate

542
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:34,799
that if not you then

543
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,799
if not somebody else then you should be

544
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:40,400
getting everyone else's

545
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:43,600
second vote so i think it has many

546
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,960
uh advantages it doesn't always come

547
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,799
into play

548
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,120
in as much as if you've only got two

549
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:52,400
people running against each other

550
00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:54,320
the issue is mute if you have three

551
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,679
people or four people running for the

552
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,039
same position

553
00:24:55,679 --> 00:25:01,440
it may well engage in a circumstance

554
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:02,880
where somebody does not achieve fifty

555
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,240
percent of the vote

556
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:09,679
uh in the first instance so

557
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,640
uh and finally i'd say that the argument

558
00:25:09,679 --> 00:25:14,880
that we are too

559
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:19,279
small or we have too few electors

560
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:22,720
uh i don't think really frankly applies

561
00:25:19,279 --> 00:25:24,559
um i'm always concerned with our first

562
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:28,240
pass the post

563
00:25:24,559 --> 00:25:30,960
process when somebody can get

564
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:32,080
70 of the vote as i did in the last

565
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,440
election

566
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:38,559
with only 30 of the electorate

567
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:42,159
or somebody gets 50 of the

568
00:25:38,559 --> 00:25:45,520
vote with only 30 of the electorate

569
00:25:42,159 --> 00:25:48,640
or 45 of the vote with

570
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:52,320
30 percent of the electorate it is

571
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:55,600
it is not a system that is is sustained

572
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:58,159
is sustaining in my view so that's all

573
00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:01,679
i'm going to say about the rank ballot

574
00:25:58,159 --> 00:26:04,880
um it is we are precluded from doing it

575
00:26:01,679 --> 00:26:08,480
but we are not precluded from asking

576
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,279
our electors in the next election by way

577
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:12,320
of a

578
00:26:09,279 --> 00:26:15,120
referendum question whether we

579
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,120
should be able to do it and i would

580
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:20,720
point out that municipalities

581
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:22,840
across ontario took huge offense

582
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,159
at the fact of being told by the

583
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,640
province

584
00:26:24,159 --> 00:26:28,080
that this was notable to them not that

585
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,279
they were thinking about it not that

586
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,919
they would ever do it

587
00:26:29,279 --> 00:26:32,559
but the fact that the province took the

588
00:26:31,919 --> 00:26:36,799
option

589
00:26:32,559 --> 00:26:41,039
off the table second submission i'd make

590
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:44,480
on the ward system is that

591
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:48,640
i think the task force should look at it

592
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:51,039
it should not discard it outright

593
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,600
there is a concept in political science

594
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:56,640
known as communities of interest

595
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:59,760
and in mono we have at least

596
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:01,039
two separate distinct communities of

597
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,919
interest

598
00:27:01,039 --> 00:27:04,960
the rural portions of our town and the

599
00:27:03,919 --> 00:27:07,600
the

600
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:09,520
urbanized portions of our town the

601
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:11,279
settlement areas

602
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,559
and the question that i think needs to

603
00:27:11,279 --> 00:27:16,080
be answered

604
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:18,320
is whether or not the

605
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,679
those areas should somehow be

606
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:23,039
represented

607
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:26,880
by individual counselors

608
00:27:23,039 --> 00:27:30,399
who speak to those issues specifically

609
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:34,320
i've looked at bob's mapping

610
00:27:30,399 --> 00:27:36,640
and i would lean towards personally the

611
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,679
three-ward system because we have three

612
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,880
counselors

613
00:27:37,679 --> 00:27:45,120
at large and

614
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:47,360
i would not necessarily go with the

615
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,960
the way he's drawn it up but i think you

616
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:50,960
could look at the town from the

617
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:54,159
standpoint of the north end

618
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:56,159
the middle end and the south end so i'd

619
00:27:54,159 --> 00:27:59,200
simply leave it there but it is not

620
00:27:56,159 --> 00:28:00,880
an issue or a subject that should be

621
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:04,240
easily dismissed

622
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:07,600
because we are content with how we

623
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,640
are proceeding currently i think that

624
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,679
the south end

625
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,480
feels disenfranchised i certainly heard

626
00:28:11,679 --> 00:28:14,880
that

627
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,240
during the election and i hear it

628
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,279
virtually every week

629
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,799
as the deputy reeve deputy mayor i

630
00:28:19,279 --> 00:28:23,840
should say

631
00:28:20,799 --> 00:28:25,679
anyways i'm flashback you're dating

632
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,120
yourself yeah i'm going to leave it at

633
00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:29,520
that i don't want to

634
00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,799
say anything more because as i say i

635
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:33,520
think you people can

636
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,640
sort this out but i think that at a

637
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,279
minimum

638
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,120
the issue of the ranked ballot should be

639
00:28:37,279 --> 00:28:42,080
subject to a referendum question

640
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,080
in the next election if not the issue if

641
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,720
you cannot come to a conclusion about a

642
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,960
ward

643
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,720
system i think that that should be the

644
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,440
subject of a question as well at an

645
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,440
absolute minimum

646
00:28:52,159 --> 00:28:55,919
so i take it from your remarks uh john

647
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,360
that

648
00:28:55,919 --> 00:29:01,120
you seem to be in support of a

649
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,039
three-ward system

650
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:08,799
for mono i i would i

651
00:29:05,039 --> 00:29:10,840
would yeah i would i would say so at

652
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:12,000
this point i think it is worthy of

653
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,919
investigation

654
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,000
i mean there's pros and cons depending

655
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:18,000
on how the boundaries are drawn

656
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,919
and depending on whether you're of the

657
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:24,240
view that somebody

658
00:29:19,919 --> 00:29:26,960
elected at large is uh perfectly capable

659
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:29,679
of representing the entire town there

660
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:33,760
there are people who are of that view

661
00:29:29,679 --> 00:29:36,480
uh and uh it it is arguable that that

662
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,799
is the case but i think as we become

663
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,559
more

664
00:29:36,799 --> 00:29:43,679
urbanized in the south end the question

665
00:29:40,559 --> 00:29:45,679
of award system keeps coming up keeps

666
00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:47,360
coming up and i think we need to address

667
00:29:45,679 --> 00:29:49,919
it

668
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,120
could i ask a couple of questions john

669
00:29:49,919 --> 00:29:55,520
um

670
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:58,799
on the on the ward system you know um

671
00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:00,480
i kind of took from uh

672
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:02,880
some of our earlier discussions that

673
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:06,480
there was a bit of a feeling that

674
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:09,279
uh that expressed uh

675
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,240
a contrary to what you're saying that

676
00:30:09,279 --> 00:30:12,480
this was

677
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,799
getting getting towards a little bit of

678
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,559
identity politics and that

679
00:30:14,799 --> 00:30:17,840
it's it's there's settlement and there's

680
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:20,399
rural and

681
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:22,480
and uh while that would be the direction

682
00:30:20,399 --> 00:30:26,320
we're all going these days

683
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:29,360
i wondered do you not see any other

684
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,720
particular uh identities

685
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:35,760
in modal that similarly deserve

686
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:36,640
representation i i i think in particular

687
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,000
of

688
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:44,000
of lumping all of rural together

689
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:44,640
uh whereas within rural there is a farm

690
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,600
community

691
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,279
and there is a non-farm community i

692
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:53,120
think as well of

693
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:57,039
the the tricky matter of the of the ward

694
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:59,760
possible ward boundaries in as much as

695
00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,559
you know uh our camilla and mortal

696
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:04,080
center

697
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:07,600
settlement areas or or

698
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:11,200
they just get put in with rural uh so

699
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,919
uh uh i just asked if you might have

700
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,360
thought of these

701
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:19,360
two things john yeah um

702
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:21,840
i have and um i think that

703
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,480
you know any any ward system is

704
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,679
arbitrary by nature

705
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:31,279
um i think you have to avoid

706
00:31:27,679 --> 00:31:34,880
a situation where you're potentially

707
00:31:31,279 --> 00:31:37,519
gerrymandering um but you're

708
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:39,679
if you if you apply the concept of

709
00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:43,679
community of interest

710
00:31:39,679 --> 00:31:47,519
um my experience in nearly 30 years in

711
00:31:43,679 --> 00:31:48,720
in comic life and mono is that we have a

712
00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,080
very distinct

713
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,159
community of interest uh with regard to

714
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:57,760
the north end of the town

715
00:31:54,159 --> 00:31:58,559
with the center and now with the south

716
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,760
and given

717
00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:03,360
the way in which it's been built up i

718
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,799
think you could have a

719
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:09,840
functional ward system

720
00:32:06,799 --> 00:32:10,880
respecting those three communities of

721
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,600
interest

722
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,240
and of course we would capture very

723
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,279
small

724
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:18,960
settlement areas uh insofar as the north

725
00:32:17,279 --> 00:32:21,120
end would have rosemont

726
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:23,360
the center would have camilla and mono

727
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:26,480
center

728
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:29,679
but the the the

729
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,760
reality of counsel is that

730
00:32:29,679 --> 00:32:32,720
at the end of the day we all have to be

731
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,039
collaborative

732
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:40,320
and we all have to um respect

733
00:32:37,039 --> 00:32:42,960
where each other is coming from

734
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,519
so you're never going to get a situation

735
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:49,279
where the person who is representing

736
00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:52,240
the uh settlement area um

737
00:32:49,279 --> 00:32:52,880
is going to be simply a one-track

738
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,679
one-trick

739
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,120
pony they're going to have to recognize

740
00:32:55,679 --> 00:32:59,600
the interests and

741
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:00,799
concerns of the center of the town and

742
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,519
the north end

743
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:05,840
and likewise the person who is elected

744
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:09,200
in a northern

745
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,320
ward is going to have to be sensitive to

746
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:12,720
the issues

747
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,880
of the people in the seventh end of the

748
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,039
town in the subdivisions

749
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:19,519
so at the end of the day it all works

750
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:21,840
out i guess what i'm trying to say

751
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:22,880
good i thank you very much john can i

752
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,600
ask you

753
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,159
oh sorry just i was just going to ask

754
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,399
john

755
00:33:26,159 --> 00:33:29,919
one more question about the the ranked

756
00:33:28,399 --> 00:33:33,360
ballot matter

757
00:33:29,919 --> 00:33:34,799
so um i got quite interested in the

758
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:38,880
ranked ballot piece

759
00:33:34,799 --> 00:33:40,559
when uh doug ford's uh progressive

760
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,760
conservative party used it

761
00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:46,640
in their uh election rather than them

762
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:50,159
using the old-fashioned canadian

763
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:53,200
party leadership election style which

764
00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:56,640
uh does uh is one of those

765
00:33:53,200 --> 00:34:00,320
those other approaches that has to

766
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:02,559
yield eventually more than 50 percent so

767
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,320
i i wondered immediately after that

768
00:34:02,559 --> 00:34:07,360
particular election

769
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:10,720
why the candidate who

770
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:14,399
ended up last um

771
00:34:10,720 --> 00:34:17,599
was uh feted in the media uh

772
00:34:14,399 --> 00:34:17,919
having decided the the final outcome and

773
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:20,320
and

774
00:34:17,919 --> 00:34:21,200
of course when i when i then turned to

775
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,720
the guideline

776
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:28,560
on uh on ranked ballot voting

777
00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:31,839
i uh went with some particular

778
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:35,919
uh i don't know care through the

779
00:34:31,839 --> 00:34:39,280
the technical description of how

780
00:34:35,919 --> 00:34:40,639
all of the voting takes place what is

781
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,200
counted

782
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:45,520
who gets to vote whose second votes get

783
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,679
to be counted etc etc etc

784
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,200
and i reached i just i'm just not going

785
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:51,760
to get into the detail of this

786
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,520
john but and i could share this with you

787
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,560
i shared it with the other task force

788
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,760
members i

789
00:34:54,560 --> 00:35:00,839
i came to a particular conclusion

790
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:02,320
on the matters of both fairness and

791
00:35:00,839 --> 00:35:05,520
comprehensibility

792
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:09,040
and uh and i got some really healthy

793
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:11,920
and uh uh pushback from bob mcrae

794
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,800
uh telling me that no i was mistaken

795
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,079
that in fact

796
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:19,200
the voting took place in this particular

797
00:35:16,079 --> 00:35:19,839
manner rather than how i read it and we

798
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,200
went back

799
00:35:19,839 --> 00:35:27,520
several times back and forth on it and

800
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:32,079
my final conclusion really was that uh

801
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:34,880
how to uh over-educated individuals like

802
00:35:32,079 --> 00:35:35,680
bob mccray and myself could read the

803
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:40,000
same

804
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:42,079
you know pages four through eight

805
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,280
of this guideline on how to count the

806
00:35:42,079 --> 00:35:46,880
votes

807
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,839
and opposing views of what they actually

808
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:50,240
meant

809
00:35:47,839 --> 00:35:51,280
which sort of reconfirmed me and the

810
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:53,440
idea that

811
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,000
it might not be possible to actually

812
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:59,920
explain to mere mortals

813
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:02,480
how their votes are counted

814
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,760
in a ranked ballot voting i think

815
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:06,240
essentially

816
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:08,560
you know my question to you john is do

817
00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:13,359
you think you can explain it

818
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:17,119
to a voter uh say over the course of a

819
00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:20,480
of uh you know a uh a coffee

820
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:23,280
say because i

821
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:25,599
could not in all conscience without

822
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,400
having the guideline in front of me

823
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:31,520
going through it i could not explain how

824
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,520
the voting takes place

825
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:37,200
you make a valid valid point i'd say a

826
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,400
couple of things

827
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:43,160
if you think rank ballot is complicated

828
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,640
remember the concept of proportional

829
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:48,320
representation

830
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:51,359
which was floated almost 20 years ago

831
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,480
that was even more

832
00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:57,520
you know mind-numbing in terms of

833
00:36:54,480 --> 00:37:00,720
of explanation and that went down

834
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:03,040
that went down to defeat in a referendum

835
00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,480
uh poorly defended in ontario and i

836
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:07,680
think it went down

837
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,640
twice in british columbia uh the rank

838
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:11,280
ballot is

839
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,200
uh complicated but it's far at the end

840
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,280
of the day it's far more simple

841
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:17,920
um it essentially takes into

842
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,720
consideration people's second choices

843
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,599
well no no it does not take into

844
00:37:20,720 --> 00:37:24,720
consideration

845
00:37:21,599 --> 00:37:25,920
everyone's second voice the votes only

846
00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:28,560
those

847
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,520
of the only those who voted for

848
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,599
candidates

849
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,960
who progressively get dropped off the

850
00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:36,240
ballot

851
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:38,480
the the person who doesn't vote

852
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:39,280
who votes initially for the leading

853
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,200
candidate

854
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,200
does not get their second vote counted

855
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:50,480
okay i i i don't i don't want to get

856
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,640
too into the weeds on this but i'm

857
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,359
trying to simplify it

858
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,480
to the extent that people's second

859
00:37:55,359 --> 00:37:59,599
choices

860
00:37:56,480 --> 00:38:02,480
matter and

861
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:03,599
i i find it ironic that this has been

862
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:07,359
used in in

863
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:07,680
party leaderships but it is deemed not

864
00:38:07,359 --> 00:38:11,599
to

865
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:14,720
be usable in a municipal election

866
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:17,119
uh my theory here is

867
00:38:14,720 --> 00:38:18,480
that somebody woke up and said to rob

868
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:21,200
ford one day

869
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:23,119
that if ranked ballot took off and was a

870
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,280
success municipally

871
00:38:23,119 --> 00:38:27,359
uh people would start demanding that it

872
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:29,920
be used provincially and if if not

873
00:38:27,359 --> 00:38:33,520
provincially federally

874
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:36,960
and it certainly isn't to the advantage

875
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:40,079
of one particular party uh in as much

876
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,839
as were i a a green supporter my second

877
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:43,760
choice might be liberal

878
00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:45,760
and if i was a liberal supporter my

879
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,680
second choice might be green

880
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:49,920
and guess who comes out with the short

881
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:54,000
end of the straw

882
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:56,720
so it has it has been shut down okay

883
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,400
so the best we can do is either ask our

884
00:38:56,720 --> 00:38:59,680
electorate whether or not they want to

885
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:03,599
see it used

886
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:06,880
or not but can we use it the answer

887
00:39:03,599 --> 00:39:10,240
at the moment is no but i think

888
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:13,599
it can be explained i think it is

889
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:16,720
preferable to the first past the post

890
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:20,560
where somebody can get elected

891
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:23,839
in best of circumstances with 15 percent

892
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:27,119
of the total electorate

893
00:39:23,839 --> 00:39:30,240
votes that's no mandate i mean

894
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:33,520
nobody nobody can claim a leadership

895
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:34,320
role when at best they have ma managed

896
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,920
to convince

897
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:41,280
15 of the total electorate

898
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:44,640
uh to support them

899
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,200
uh i i i i agree with you on that john

900
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,599
um

901
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:52,800
so let me ask uh bob do you have any uh

902
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:54,800
questions of john to uh uh

903
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,960
take advantage of john krielman while

904
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,839
he's here with us

905
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,640
uh i i don't have uh questions uh of

906
00:39:59,839 --> 00:40:04,880
john

907
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:08,000
um but uh what i do want to say

908
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,920
uh and and it's interesting and you know

909
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,960
that doug ford's been criticized about

910
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,760
the fact that

911
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,480
leadership conventions or his leadership

912
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,359
convention

913
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,240
used this i've been a member and a

914
00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:20,720
participant

915
00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:21,680
in the provincial conservative party and

916
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:24,319
the federal

917
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,200
conservative party uh for quite some

918
00:40:24,319 --> 00:40:28,400
time now

919
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:31,280
and leaders have have been elected uh

920
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:33,040
uh uh to get uh insisting that they get

921
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,079
fifty percent of the vote

922
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:39,760
uh for decades now uh and

923
00:40:36,079 --> 00:40:42,960
the the ranked balloting uh was simply

924
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,920
done uh to make it simpler i remember uh

925
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:47,680
some leadership

926
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:50,880
conventions where we voted once

927
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:54,319
uh and then uh the the the person

928
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,800
who got the most uh votes did not get 50

929
00:40:54,319 --> 00:40:57,599
and we physically had to go back to the

930
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,240
uh

931
00:40:57,599 --> 00:41:01,200
to the election hall and and vote a

932
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,079
second time

933
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:06,640
and then so you know this is not new uh

934
00:41:04,079 --> 00:41:06,640
for those

935
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:11,760
sorry that's the more traditional

936
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,079
approach

937
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,680
is um you don't get it right second time

938
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:18,160
everybody vote the fact every

939
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,680
if the first time everyone again votes

940
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:23,119
the second time

941
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,000
exactly what i what i do want to uh to

942
00:41:23,119 --> 00:41:26,160
say and and

943
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,680
uh you you have the material that i put

944
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,720
together on this and

945
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:34,319
um uh you know john's thought

946
00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:37,599
uh you know i i did two two uh

947
00:41:34,319 --> 00:41:40,079
uh alternates uh uh so

948
00:41:37,599 --> 00:41:41,440
as a discussion point three-ward system

949
00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:44,800
four-word system

950
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:46,000
uh four-ward system uh i mean i'm not

951
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,560
proposing that we

952
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:49,680
increase the number of people on mono

953
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:52,960
council

954
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:56,000
and and the the whole thought of a mayor

955
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,440
appointing a deputy mayor i'm not sure

956
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,640
that's the right way to do it

957
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:03,520
i think john's idea about

958
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,000
a different three-ward system is a good

959
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:05,760
one

960
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,920
and after this meeting i'm going to sit

961
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:11,520
down and i'm going to color up another

962
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:14,880
map for a different three-ward system

963
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:16,000
for our consideration but one of the

964
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,760
things and when i said

965
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,160
at the beginning of the meeting that i

966
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,359
was going to propose a third

967
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:26,480
uh resolution uh in fact is

968
00:42:23,359 --> 00:42:29,599
uh similar to what john creelman

969
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:33,119
has suggested and and that is that

970
00:42:29,599 --> 00:42:36,560
um i i don't believe that this council

971
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:38,960
um we know uh uh

972
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:39,680
their feelings on it uh they are not

973
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,520
going to

974
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:42,960
uh i'll put money on it and i'm not a

975
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:44,880
betting man uh

976
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:47,040
but let's call a spade is paid they are

977
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,640
not going to vote to to to change the

978
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,280
system that we've got now

979
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,079
but what i would propose and what i was

980
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,920
going to suggest as a third resolution

981
00:42:54,079 --> 00:42:57,359
which i think we should discuss at a

982
00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:00,000
future meeting

983
00:42:57,359 --> 00:43:01,920
is that the town of mono have a

984
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:06,000
referendum question

985
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:10,079
on the uh 2022 election ballot

986
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:12,880
uh asking residents a preference between

987
00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:13,359
the current system award system or a

988
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:17,040
ranked

989
00:43:13,359 --> 00:43:19,119
ballot system so john

990
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,480
brought that up uh so i think it's

991
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:24,079
appropriate that i

992
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,440
i bring that up now um it would be a

993
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:28,079
non-binding

994
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,480
referendum of course but it would give

995
00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:31,920
the

996
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:35,440
the new 2022 council

997
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:36,319
uh some direction uh so that was going

998
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,960
to be my

999
00:43:36,319 --> 00:43:40,000
uh my suggestion for the third you know

1000
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:43,040
my feelings about

1001
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:43,520
award system i've run in two elections i

1002
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:46,720
will not

1003
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:48,319
run in a third one uh but in both of

1004
00:43:46,720 --> 00:43:51,520
them i was quite vocal and

1005
00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:53,119
insistent the award system uh and you've

1006
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:55,280
read my uh

1007
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:57,839
words there ward system for balance

1008
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:00,720
direct representation and mono

1009
00:43:57,839 --> 00:44:01,520
uh you know my passion uh that that that

1010
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:03,680
is my first

1011
00:44:01,520 --> 00:44:05,760
choice but second choice would be to

1012
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:09,359
have this as a referendum question in

1013
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,400
the next election i've written that down

1014
00:44:09,359 --> 00:44:15,200
a uh a possible resolution to add

1015
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,400
uh and for our uh later discussion when

1016
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:19,200
we come to

1017
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,880
to talking about uh resolutions thank

1018
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:22,079
you very much bob that's a very good

1019
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,400
suggestion

1020
00:44:22,079 --> 00:44:24,400
thank you

1021
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,520
um it's a little known fact that the

1022
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:33,520
town of orangeville used to have a word

1023
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:37,359
system

1024
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:41,200
100 years ago it had a word system

1025
00:44:37,359 --> 00:44:44,319
and i i'm sure the word boundaries made

1026
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:48,079
absolutely no sense whatsoever

1027
00:44:44,319 --> 00:44:50,800
and they they stopped using it

1028
00:44:48,079 --> 00:44:53,440
they never passed the necessary

1029
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:56,880
legislation to stop using it

1030
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,440
and a mischievous lawyer about 20 years

1031
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:00,480
ago

1032
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:04,079
no almost 25 30 years ago

1033
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:07,119
raised the fact that they had

1034
00:45:04,079 --> 00:45:10,960
illegally elected councils for

1035
00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:14,560
75 years without reference to the

1036
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:17,200
the award system and a private bill was

1037
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,480
had to be brought into the legislature

1038
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:22,560
to to make it all

1039
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:26,480
right um i found it amusing at the time

1040
00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:28,960
um but that's to say that that if you do

1041
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:31,280
go with the ward system you have to to

1042
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:35,119
draw your boundaries so as to

1043
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:38,160
represent communities of interest

1044
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:40,880
and the the boundaries have to be

1045
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,400
you know explainable and rational uh

1046
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,839
from that standpoint

1047
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:48,880
just back to the ranked ballot

1048
00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:52,560
canada is the only country in

1049
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:55,680
in the um uh

1050
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:57,440
organization of um i forget the the

1051
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,119
international organization

1052
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:04,640
of economic development i think that

1053
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:07,760
that clings to its first post

1054
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:12,480
process every other country

1055
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:16,079
has some form of either a second round

1056
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:19,359
to achieve 50 or a ranked ballot

1057
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:19,920
or a combination of both so we're we're

1058
00:46:19,359 --> 00:46:23,359
clinging

1059
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:26,400
tenaciously here to a dinosaur

1060
00:46:23,359 --> 00:46:28,400
uh whose time is is running out

1061
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:30,000
oedc i should say that's the

1062
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,280
organization

1063
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:36,960
um and uh in ideal world

1064
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,960
can can i get your world

1065
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:43,839
john i'm wondering if if i might uh

1066
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,240
interrupt just to give a stefan a chance

1067
00:46:43,839 --> 00:46:47,599
to

1068
00:46:44,240 --> 00:46:49,839
uh follow up with any additional uh

1069
00:46:47,599 --> 00:46:51,280
questions john and just to let you know

1070
00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:54,480
i am going to ask you

1071
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:58,480
to please uh

1072
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,480
even if it's half a page or a page

1073
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:05,760
because i would like to incorporate um

1074
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:09,119
what you're talking about into

1075
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:11,520
the draft perhaps not in exact

1076
00:47:09,119 --> 00:47:13,440
words but i will be able at least then

1077
00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:17,040
to be able to quote you on a number of

1078
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:20,400
items sure let me fact check you stefan

1079
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:23,280
is there anything you'd like to add well

1080
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,000
just almost a direct question to john's

1081
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:26,640
just recent

1082
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,359
comment i didn't quite understand it

1083
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:30,000
because

1084
00:47:27,359 --> 00:47:30,800
it depends obviously on the level of

1085
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,720
election

1086
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,599
but when you look at the highest level

1087
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:38,800
what we would call a federal election

1088
00:47:35,599 --> 00:47:41,920
actually most oecd

1089
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:44,319
countries use the first pastor post like

1090
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,359
the united states like france

1091
00:47:44,319 --> 00:47:49,680
like the united kingdom um that is a

1092
00:47:47,359 --> 00:47:51,599
traditional system it's more like the

1093
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:55,359
younger democracies

1094
00:47:51,599 --> 00:47:58,559
such as germany latin america

1095
00:47:55,359 --> 00:47:59,599
eastern europe they use a far advanced

1096
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:02,480
system

1097
00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:03,119
to properly elect their parliaments so

1098
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:06,079
um

1099
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:06,880
but it also makes a difference right a

1100
00:48:06,079 --> 00:48:09,839
system

1101
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,160
how to elect your federal parliament may

1102
00:48:09,839 --> 00:48:13,280
be

1103
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:16,000
different how to vote for a you know

1104
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:18,160
small municipal parliament which

1105
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,520
represents only let's say i don't know 5

1106
00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,079
000 people

1107
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,240
so i'm not sure whether a direct

1108
00:48:22,079 --> 00:48:26,240
comparison between the highest level and

1109
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:29,359
the lowest level of election

1110
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:32,880
makes sense in that context

1111
00:48:29,359 --> 00:48:36,079
that's very very serious

1112
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:39,119
stefan you're actually correct um and

1113
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:42,079
the oecd comparison uh

1114
00:48:39,119 --> 00:48:43,920
works to a point uh to take united

1115
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:46,839
states as an example

1116
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:48,000
uh the only exception is in the state of

1117
00:48:46,839 --> 00:48:51,359
maine

1118
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,920
where they do a rank ballot but

1119
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:55,359
that throws a spanner in the argument

1120
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:58,480
that

1121
00:48:55,359 --> 00:49:01,680
the united states is a pure first pass

1122
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:04,960
the post democracy uh

1123
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:08,240
in canada we are a pure first past

1124
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:10,480
opposed democracy and uh

1125
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:11,520
in in germany as you're aware there's

1126
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,359
there's uh

1127
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:19,280
uh allocation of uh of uh seats in the

1128
00:49:15,359 --> 00:49:19,839
bundestag um dependent on the percentage

1129
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,240
of uh

1130
00:49:19,839 --> 00:49:23,040
votes garnered by a particular party i

1131
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:25,920
think that

1132
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,800
the level is 20 if my memory serves me

1133
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:30,000
right

1134
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:33,040
um but you know my my

1135
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,359
only point here is that we've got to

1136
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,559
evolve and move on from from what we're

1137
00:49:35,359 --> 00:49:40,240
currently doing

1138
00:49:36,559 --> 00:49:40,880
uh because frankly it has no credibility

1139
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:44,559
and

1140
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:48,000
increasingly less credibility

1141
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:49,760
john thank you i i'll just

1142
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,280
chip in a couple comments one of which

1143
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:54,000
is that i

1144
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:55,119
quite agree with everyone's sentiment

1145
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:58,559
that

1146
00:49:55,119 --> 00:50:03,200
a leader getting more than 50

1147
00:49:58,559 --> 00:50:06,800
50 plus one of the votes cast

1148
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:10,559
would be a great world to live in and uh

1149
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:11,440
i i i personally am a fan of two round

1150
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:14,400
elections

1151
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:16,400
i'm a fan of the old fashioned canadian

1152
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:19,680
party leadership approach

1153
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:22,720
uh vote absolutely guaranteed 50

1154
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:26,400
plus one uh at any rate i

1155
00:50:22,720 --> 00:50:29,200
i will by exchange with you john

1156
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:30,000
and just for your own amusement i will

1157
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,559
uh

1158
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,359
when i get your your comments on uh

1159
00:50:32,559 --> 00:50:36,160
first

1160
00:50:33,359 --> 00:50:38,160
uh on the ranked ballot voting i will i

1161
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:41,520
will flip you a copy of my

1162
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:45,200
uh uh obscure

1163
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:47,920
uh calculations of unfairness but uh

1164
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:49,200
okay nevertheless i think what what what

1165
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:51,599
i perceive here

1166
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,280
is that with this discussion and with

1167
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:56,559
our previous discussions

1168
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:57,680
and with bob's a paper and with uh

1169
00:50:56,559 --> 00:51:00,720
perhaps

1170
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:01,760
with my notes as well on ranked ballot

1171
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:04,079
voting

1172
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:05,680
i'm beginning to see the shape of a

1173
00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:09,200
draft report

1174
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:13,040
that that is framed really around

1175
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:16,720
those two subject matters as a whole

1176
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:19,280
and can put forward uh positive

1177
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:20,720
uh arguments on both sides of each of

1178
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:24,400
those questions

1179
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:27,680
and then proceeds to distill

1180
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:31,040
through resolutions uh task towards

1181
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:32,640
uh resolutions on both matters uh and

1182
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:33,359
perhaps with the addition of the third

1183
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:36,400
matter

1184
00:51:33,359 --> 00:51:40,240
that bob uh ron raised

1185
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:42,240
about a uh referendum

1186
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:43,839
thanks and i'm gonna i'm gonna sign out

1187
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:47,520
now but one thing to

1188
00:51:43,839 --> 00:51:50,800
to consider as well is i think council

1189
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:54,480
council would be well welcoming a

1190
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:58,240
recommendation to um affirm the

1191
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,640
uh or not uh the process of election i.e

1192
00:51:58,240 --> 00:52:01,599
the

1193
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,319
internet that we used last time uh

1194
00:52:01,599 --> 00:52:07,280
coupled with

1195
00:52:02,319 --> 00:52:09,200
uh in-person voting at the town hall

1196
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,119
and certainly would welcome any

1197
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:13,119
recommendations that you would make with

1198
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:16,240
regard to

1199
00:52:13,119 --> 00:52:17,599
increasing vote voter turnout uh voter

1200
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:21,119
engagement uh

1201
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:22,960
from in in so in so far as the process

1202
00:52:21,119 --> 00:52:25,920
of voting is concerned

1203
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:28,720
uh any of those things i think are are

1204
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,359
within within your mandate

1205
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:33,839
personally i like the internet voting

1206
00:52:31,359 --> 00:52:37,359
but it has to have a backstop

1207
00:52:33,839 --> 00:52:39,599
uh in terms of in-person uh

1208
00:52:37,359 --> 00:52:40,640
opportunity as well but i'll just leave

1209
00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:43,440
that with you and

1210
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,720
and wish everybody a wonderful evening

1211
00:52:43,440 --> 00:52:46,880
thank you very much john

1212
00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:48,400
and i'll just finish by saying the

1213
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:52,319
voting cannot be done

1214
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,319
with go to meeting technology

1215
00:52:57,359 --> 00:53:01,119
they've changed the format of it and i

1216
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:04,160
cannot navigate this

1217
00:53:01,119 --> 00:53:06,079
new um interface there you go it's all

1218
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:09,280
there to help us

1219
00:53:06,079 --> 00:53:13,040
sharon as well

1220
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:15,040
uh i can i ask you whether or not

1221
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:17,200
you have anything additional to

1222
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:20,079
contribute to our discussion

1223
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,960
and secondly whether or not you might be

1224
00:53:20,079 --> 00:53:24,800
willing to

1225
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:29,040
uh jot down a few of

1226
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:32,480
your uh thoughts on these two topics

1227
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:35,119
uh for our consideration for inclusion

1228
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,839
in the uh in the report that we bring

1229
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:39,440
forward

1230
00:53:35,839 --> 00:53:40,800
to council sure i'll i'll be really

1231
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:44,319
quick

1232
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:47,920
and um i i'll just

1233
00:53:44,319 --> 00:53:51,440
hit the topic the ranked ballot i'm

1234
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:52,400
really uh i'm i'm waffling about the

1235
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,240
ranked ballot

1236
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,079
i'm starting to think that it might be a

1237
00:53:54,240 --> 00:53:59,839
good idea however

1238
00:53:56,079 --> 00:54:01,599
i don't it's fine to uh look into it

1239
00:53:59,839 --> 00:54:04,240
it's fine to study it

1240
00:54:01,599 --> 00:54:04,640
but right now it isn't going to happen

1241
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:06,880
so

1242
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,680
this can be background stuff that you're

1243
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:10,240
doing

1244
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,520
but don't spend a whole lot of time on

1245
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:12,720
it because you're not going to be able

1246
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:15,520
to do it

1247
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,880
um as far as the ward systems are

1248
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,319
concerned

1249
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:23,040
um uh i would

1250
00:54:20,319 --> 00:54:25,280
hope if it ends up happening that it

1251
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:28,079
would be like county council

1252
00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:29,920
where you come from different areas but

1253
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:33,760
you're not

1254
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:36,960
there particularly for your own

1255
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:39,119
um business for your own

1256
00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:41,119
things that are going on in yours in

1257
00:54:39,119 --> 00:54:43,920
your municipality

1258
00:54:41,119 --> 00:54:44,160
you are there for the whole county and

1259
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,160
it

1260
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:48,000
would have to be the same way i don't

1261
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:51,599
think you can do that

1262
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:55,359
um with the structure we have now

1263
00:54:51,599 --> 00:54:56,960
at our table at our council table

1264
00:54:55,359 --> 00:54:59,359
i don't think you could do that i don't

1265
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:02,559
think you can divide it up four ways

1266
00:54:59,359 --> 00:55:04,960
how do you how do you do that um

1267
00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:07,359
are the is the mayor running for one

1268
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,559
area and the deputy mayor for another

1269
00:55:07,359 --> 00:55:11,920
and the three

1270
00:55:08,559 --> 00:55:13,119
the three stooges um are they running

1271
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,480
for what

1272
00:55:13,119 --> 00:55:19,040
um i

1273
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,200
i think that there's more to be done for

1274
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:24,880
the southern area for

1275
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:27,839
our southeast area and

1276
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,880
more to be done in the sense that when i

1277
00:55:27,839 --> 00:55:32,079
was

1278
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:35,760
in that area i had to convince

1279
00:55:32,079 --> 00:55:39,119
someone that they lived in mono

1280
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:41,680
right absolutely i had to because

1281
00:55:39,119 --> 00:55:43,520
and they said oh no we're in orangeville

1282
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,079
but and i thought how could you not know

1283
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,720
that

1284
00:55:44,079 --> 00:55:49,119
but they pay their mo the way they pay

1285
00:55:46,720 --> 00:55:52,319
their mortgage through the bank

1286
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:54,799
the taxes go they don't have anything to

1287
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:58,480
do with it so they don't even know

1288
00:55:54,799 --> 00:55:59,520
anyway um that i ran into that a lot of

1289
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,119
times

1290
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:05,440
um and and i well okay a lot

1291
00:56:03,119 --> 00:56:07,440
so three definite times and a couple i

1292
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:09,200
was pretty suspicious of because they

1293
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,040
really didn't want to talk to me but

1294
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:14,240
anyway um that's

1295
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:17,520
neither here nor there uh i'm i just

1296
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:19,359
can't get excited about a ward system i

1297
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:21,040
i think that there are other things that

1298
00:56:19,359 --> 00:56:24,880
we can do

1299
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:25,680
um to make things it's too bad we don't

1300
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:29,760
have

1301
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:33,280
um one of our buildings right there

1302
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:36,799
in um one of the southeast

1303
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:37,839
um areas one of our buildings so that we

1304
00:56:36,799 --> 00:56:41,599
could have

1305
00:56:37,839 --> 00:56:44,319
meetings there so um a town hall meeting

1306
00:56:41,599 --> 00:56:46,400
could be there so there are are other

1307
00:56:44,319 --> 00:56:48,000
things that we can do besides doing the

1308
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:51,280
ward system

1309
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,920
um i the

1310
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:54,960
the last thing was something that john

1311
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:57,280
said and that

1312
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:58,000
was what i was going to say is don't

1313
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,799
limit yourself

1314
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,280
to these two things that we need to

1315
00:57:00,799 --> 00:57:03,680
discuss

1316
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,040
internet voting and i thought it was

1317
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,400
fabulous

1318
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,880
and um i thought it worked really well

1319
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,760
there are

1320
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,160
very few hiccups a few people who were a

1321
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,839
little

1322
00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:16,079
um boggled by it but really when you did

1323
00:57:15,839 --> 00:57:18,000
it

1324
00:57:16,079 --> 00:57:19,760
there was no problem at all and voting

1325
00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,280
in person at the town hall of course you

1326
00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:23,760
always have to have that bake up

1327
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:25,760
back up because there are always people

1328
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:28,000
who won't get it so

1329
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,880
i i agree you still your mandate is

1330
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:32,319
bigger

1331
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:37,280
than the award system and the and the

1332
00:57:32,319 --> 00:57:40,079
ranked ballot and that's what i think

1333
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,680
i appreciate that encouragement sharon i

1334
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:44,880
i must admit

1335
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:47,680
uh personally that i i i

1336
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,200
balk a little bit around the question of

1337
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:53,359
how to improve voter

1338
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:56,880
turnout yeah if if five

1339
00:57:53,359 --> 00:57:59,680
uh politicians working

1340
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:02,160
with the council of mono haven't figured

1341
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:05,119
out how to improve voter turnout

1342
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:07,119
not quite sure how our task force is

1343
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:10,400
going to come up with any silver bullets

1344
00:58:07,119 --> 00:58:10,960
but you know i i i will not shirk the

1345
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:13,440
question

1346
00:58:10,960 --> 00:58:14,240
i will include it in the report because

1347
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:16,559
uh

1348
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,599
you know what i'm hoping to do is draft

1349
00:58:16,559 --> 00:58:20,079
something

1350
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:21,200
and then and then have bob and stefan

1351
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:23,839
and peter

1352
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:24,799
you know have the time to to think it

1353
00:58:23,839 --> 00:58:28,000
through

1354
00:58:24,799 --> 00:58:28,640
add to it you know and uh and then i

1355
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:32,160
think

1356
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:33,839
we can have another uh once we have kind

1357
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:37,119
of a draft in hand

1358
00:58:33,839 --> 00:58:40,640
we can have a uh perhaps a uh

1359
00:58:37,119 --> 00:58:43,440
a more useful a task force meeting

1360
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,160
where we we go through and kind of and

1361
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:46,720
more

1362
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:47,920
purposefully get on the same page with

1363
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:51,040
each other about

1364
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:54,720
uh what we want to take forward

1365
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:57,359
that sounds that sounds really good

1366
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:58,240
uh john can i say something please yes

1367
00:58:57,359 --> 00:59:02,000
sir

1368
00:58:58,240 --> 00:59:05,280
uh i i think uh to help focus um

1369
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:07,839
our efforts here uh and i have put it on

1370
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,960
on my you know i kept the purposely to

1371
00:59:07,839 --> 00:59:12,079
one page

1372
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:14,880
uh there uh about the award system but

1373
00:59:12,079 --> 00:59:16,799
uh the the second main point there was

1374
00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:20,319
goals and benefits

1375
00:59:16,799 --> 00:59:21,760
so uh specifically in my case this was

1376
00:59:20,319 --> 00:59:26,000
of award system

1377
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:27,119
uh and uh it's uh i have been a goal

1378
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:30,319
oriented

1379
00:59:27,119 --> 00:59:33,680
a person for a very long time uh

1380
00:59:30,319 --> 00:59:36,799
and and um i've put down there some

1381
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:39,280
some goals uh and the benefits

1382
00:59:36,799 --> 00:59:41,280
that i think and and i think that uh

1383
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:45,599
whatever we're considering

1384
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:47,280
uh it it's good to start with goals

1385
00:59:45,599 --> 00:59:48,880
and one of them that's been mentioned

1386
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:53,440
here is is to increase

1387
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:56,319
a voter turnout i may naively believe

1388
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:59,520
this but but i do believe it is that a

1389
00:59:56,319 --> 01:00:01,680
award system could actually

1390
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,200
increase the voter turnout but that

1391
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:05,839
would only be borne out

1392
01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:07,200
uh if if we actually had that that

1393
01:00:05,839 --> 01:00:09,680
that's a personal uh

1394
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:11,440
opinion about that so i i really do

1395
01:00:09,680 --> 01:00:14,960
think that that you know we need to

1396
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:17,440
to look at at those goals um i

1397
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,000
i i have put down here my feelings on

1398
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,880
this

1399
01:00:18,000 --> 01:00:21,920
and some people may disagree uh that

1400
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:25,200
those are in fact

1401
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:25,760
valid goals here um the the ranked

1402
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:29,280
ballot

1403
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:31,680
system uh we're we're discussing it

1404
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,599
because it is one that is used or has

1405
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,319
been used in different countries and the

1406
01:00:33,599 --> 01:00:38,079
like

1407
01:00:34,319 --> 01:00:40,720
um as as i see it um

1408
01:00:38,079 --> 01:00:43,040
to for my way of thinking for mono uh

1409
01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:46,160
that's nothing more than tinkering

1410
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:48,799
and uh for my way of thinking in fact

1411
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,559
does not achieve the goals or the

1412
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:53,599
benefits that i think are

1413
01:00:50,559 --> 01:00:56,160
right i have said it in an email

1414
01:00:53,599 --> 01:00:58,640
to the the committee members i'll say it

1415
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:02,000
here now because this is being recorded

1416
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:06,000
that a ranked ballot uh voting system

1417
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:08,880
in the 2018 election would not have made

1418
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:11,359
one a bit of difference because the the

1419
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:14,640
three incumbents who were elected

1420
01:01:11,359 --> 01:01:18,000
uh got more than 50 percent of of

1421
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:20,160
the vote were cast yes no it would not

1422
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,839
have made any difference whatsoever

1423
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,359
there would not not have been a second

1424
01:01:21,839 --> 01:01:26,400
round of counting

1425
01:01:23,359 --> 01:01:27,760
that that that's interesting that you

1426
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:28,079
brought that up i didn't want to say

1427
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:31,760
that

1428
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:32,559
but but um you know fred and i tied with

1429
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:35,119
26

1430
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:36,839
point something percent and ralph was

1431
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:40,319
ahead of us

1432
01:01:36,839 --> 01:01:43,359
so you know it it just uh

1433
01:01:40,319 --> 01:01:44,720
i i can't see how you could get that how

1434
01:01:43,359 --> 01:01:48,400
it would change anything

1435
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:50,839
to have a ranked ballot in the church

1436
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:54,079
it would not have made any difference at

1437
01:01:50,839 --> 01:01:56,799
all the three of you got over 50 percent

1438
01:01:54,079 --> 01:02:00,000
of the votes that were cast

1439
01:01:56,799 --> 01:02:02,880
yeah could i just add there didn't um

1440
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:03,520
wasn't it fred simpson who did the math

1441
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:07,920
going back

1442
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:11,920
to all the elections since 1974

1443
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:14,160
and made the same point i

1444
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:15,200
i i remember something about that

1445
01:02:14,160 --> 01:02:17,839
memories getting

1446
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:18,960
you know yeah it's so smart but i do

1447
01:02:17,839 --> 01:02:21,520
remember

1448
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,160
yeah i it was something along those

1449
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:25,440
lines

1450
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:27,839
uh okay let let me let me

1451
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,720
say this and and and it's an interesting

1452
01:02:27,839 --> 01:02:32,079
thing

1453
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:34,720
i've lived up here for 25 or 26 years

1454
01:02:32,079 --> 01:02:35,839
uh it's an interesting fact in rural

1455
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,920
politics

1456
01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:38,880
that uh and it's a known fact that the

1457
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:42,240
incumbents

1458
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:45,280
uh have a a huge advantage

1459
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:46,480
over uh any challengers and that the

1460
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:49,119
only exception

1461
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:51,599
interestingly enough is the case that

1462
01:02:49,119 --> 01:02:54,960
happened in the town of orangeville

1463
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:56,559
two years ago and where they were all

1464
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:58,400
thrown out

1465
01:02:56,559 --> 01:02:59,920
all the incumbents were thrown out

1466
01:02:58,400 --> 01:03:02,880
because that

1467
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:03,920
council was so dysfunctional that it was

1468
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:07,359
uh

1469
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:09,440
uh no nobody could ignore that fact

1470
01:03:07,359 --> 01:03:11,200
so all of the incumbents whether they

1471
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:14,640
were good or not were thrown out

1472
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:16,000
and a whole new slate uh but uh it is a

1473
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:18,880
known fact uh

1474
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:20,000
general again to repeat that that uh in

1475
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,960
rural areas

1476
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:25,280
incumbents by far have a huger uh

1477
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:28,319
advantage over somebody new coming in

1478
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:29,280
and and what can you perceive is the

1479
01:03:28,319 --> 01:03:32,319
problem with that

1480
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:33,200
bob just so i get the point well uh the

1481
01:03:32,319 --> 01:03:36,559
problem with that

1482
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:39,680
is that it discourages uh new people

1483
01:03:36,559 --> 01:03:42,720
from getting involved

1484
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:46,400
and we had diane wansley uh

1485
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:48,960
yo who bless her uh got involved in

1486
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,079
in the last one but it it absolutely

1487
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:52,799
discourages

1488
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:54,000
uh new people and other people from

1489
01:03:52,799 --> 01:03:57,119
getting involved in it

1490
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:58,960
and and that to me is a problem well

1491
01:03:57,119 --> 01:04:00,559
over that the only way we'd be able to

1492
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:03,280
do it would be to have

1493
01:04:00,559 --> 01:04:03,680
we have to then have identity politics

1494
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:06,960
around

1495
01:04:03,680 --> 01:04:06,960
newcomers and old comers

1496
01:04:07,599 --> 01:04:11,760
now so that the that older votes count

1497
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,640
for older candidates or something like

1498
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,880
this i mean

1499
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,680
which i know you're joking so that won't

1500
01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:18,160
happen but

1501
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,720
well right of course i'm joking but yeah

1502
01:04:18,160 --> 01:04:21,520
but

1503
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:22,559
but it isn't it's a known fact well

1504
01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:25,599
that's right

1505
01:04:22,559 --> 01:04:28,880
i tell you uh from my point of view

1506
01:04:25,599 --> 01:04:31,280
who someone who lives on a farm

1507
01:04:28,880 --> 01:04:32,400
it's an operating farm we run our own

1508
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,640
farm books

1509
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,880
and i look around mono and i can and i

1510
01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:40,559
say to myself increasingly

1511
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:43,920
you know um the the

1512
01:04:40,559 --> 01:04:47,920
farm uh sector

1513
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:50,480
is very much different from what

1514
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,960
you're characterizing as the rural

1515
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:54,720
portion

1516
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:57,119
oh no and it's in my books entirely

1517
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,920
underrepresented these days but that's

1518
01:04:57,119 --> 01:05:01,119
again

1519
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,960
that's a particular identity uh point of

1520
01:05:01,119 --> 01:05:06,160
view

1521
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:09,359
john yes um

1522
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:11,680
just further to what bob is saying the

1523
01:05:09,359 --> 01:05:16,720
first time i ran

1524
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:20,079
um i've been here i've been here for

1525
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:23,280
in the area for uh 50 so

1526
01:05:20,079 --> 01:05:26,319
i'll uh over 50 years and

1527
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:29,520
uh i would say because

1528
01:05:26,319 --> 01:05:32,880
i was involved in other things

1529
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:36,319
in the community because i was on

1530
01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:39,839
uh committees of the town

1531
01:05:36,319 --> 01:05:39,839
because i attended

1532
01:05:41,920 --> 01:05:48,480
attended council meetings and

1533
01:05:45,839 --> 01:05:49,039
took notes and talked to counselors

1534
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:52,160
because

1535
01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:54,559
i was there that's what why i was

1536
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:56,799
elected the first time i've got no doubt

1537
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:59,680
name recognition she's part of the

1538
01:05:56,799 --> 01:06:01,200
community she did this she did that

1539
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:03,440
that those are all things that are

1540
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:06,799
important diane wansley is

1541
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:09,119
case in point she is a fabulous person

1542
01:06:06,799 --> 01:06:10,960
and i would love to see her on council

1543
01:06:09,119 --> 01:06:11,760
not going to happen she's got three kids

1544
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:14,799
now

1545
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:17,440
but and they're too young so

1546
01:06:14,799 --> 01:06:18,640
um but those are the things that people

1547
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:21,359
need to do

1548
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:23,280
if they want to be on council if they

1549
01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:24,160
want to be part of the community you got

1550
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,880
to be there

1551
01:06:24,160 --> 01:06:26,880
all the time

1552
01:06:27,599 --> 01:06:32,640
i hear you clear loud and clear sharon

1553
01:06:29,839 --> 01:06:34,319
and i really i'd really appreciate a

1554
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,799
page of

1555
01:06:34,319 --> 01:06:37,839
of your thoughts written down just so i

1556
01:06:36,799 --> 01:06:39,839
make sure

1557
01:06:37,839 --> 01:06:40,960
that that is covered in our our draft

1558
01:06:39,839 --> 01:06:47,119
report because i

1559
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:50,319
i really i uh i'm not sure that uh

1560
01:06:47,119 --> 01:06:51,039
incumbency uh is a matter that really

1561
01:06:50,319 --> 01:06:54,720
intersects

1562
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:58,000
too much with uh voter turnout and uh

1563
01:06:54,720 --> 01:07:01,039
but uh both of these are matters that

1564
01:06:58,000 --> 01:07:03,200
we can touch on in our report sure thank

1565
01:07:01,039 --> 01:07:03,200
you

1566
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:11,620
so um with that uh

1567
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:13,440
with that said i think

1568
01:07:11,620 --> 01:07:15,680
[Music]

1569
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,720
we've dealt with item six on the agenda

1570
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:19,520
which is

1571
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:21,440
and and five i think simultaneously

1572
01:07:19,520 --> 01:07:24,160
which is a pretty good discussion

1573
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,599
of both of these topics and i've added a

1574
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,880
few more

1575
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:32,960
uh the next piece on the agenda is tasks

1576
01:07:28,880 --> 01:07:36,000
outstanding and i just want to

1577
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:36,640
state again that i would take it upon

1578
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:40,400
myself

1579
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:43,520
if stefan and bob you're agreeable

1580
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:47,599
to putting together a first draft

1581
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:50,720
of uh at least you know a roughed out

1582
01:07:47,599 --> 01:07:51,599
uh table of contents and some items

1583
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,200
around these

1584
01:07:51,599 --> 01:07:55,359
topics some of the matters that have

1585
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:57,280
been raised and then i would get it to

1586
01:07:55,359 --> 01:08:00,799
the members of the task force

1587
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:05,039
and we would uh add detract

1588
01:08:00,799 --> 01:08:07,039
uh and fix to the point where

1589
01:08:05,039 --> 01:08:08,640
we think it's worthwhile to have another

1590
01:08:07,039 --> 01:08:10,810
meeting and talk

1591
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:12,000
about

1592
01:08:10,810 --> 01:08:16,000
[Music]

1593
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:17,600
how our thoughts and advice are coming

1594
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:20,880
together

1595
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:24,880
bob uh stefan do you think that's a

1596
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:28,239
reasonable way to take this forward

1597
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:30,960
don't screw it to me stefan

1598
01:08:28,239 --> 01:08:33,120
thank you stefan yeah it's it's bob uh

1599
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:36,640
yeah i i do agree yes

1600
01:08:33,120 --> 01:08:39,120
uh john uh i don't know what you're

1601
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:42,159
going to include in that uh your next

1602
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:45,520
point uh no tasks outstanding i will

1603
01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:49,279
well for example bob i would include

1604
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:53,120
your submission uh i think almost

1605
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:55,759
entirely and uh and identify it as as

1606
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,719
work that you've done and and if you

1607
01:08:55,759 --> 01:08:59,679
want to

1608
01:08:56,719 --> 01:09:00,400
uh as you suggested modify it a little

1609
01:08:59,679 --> 01:09:03,040
bit

1610
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:05,839
uh you could do that either now or when

1611
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:06,319
you see it show up in a draft report

1612
01:09:05,839 --> 01:09:10,480
yeah i

1613
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:10,880
i will draw up i i i like john's idea

1614
01:09:10,480 --> 01:09:14,239
about

1615
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:16,719
rejigging a three-ward system so i will

1616
01:09:14,239 --> 01:09:18,400
uh draw up a different one for that and

1617
01:09:16,719 --> 01:09:21,520
i'll i'll send it in

1618
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:24,319
to everybody and yes please include that

1619
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,719
uh but also please i don't know you know

1620
01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:29,600
again the the draft resolutions the

1621
01:09:26,719 --> 01:09:31,279
the two here i i would like to see the

1622
01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:35,040
the third suggestion

1623
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:38,319
about a referendum question on the 2022

1624
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:41,520
yes so i wrote that down

1625
01:09:38,319 --> 01:09:42,719
and so in this draft report i will i

1626
01:09:41,520 --> 01:09:46,159
will again you know

1627
01:09:42,719 --> 01:09:47,600
towards the end of it include some draft

1628
01:09:46,159 --> 01:09:50,799
final resolutions

1629
01:09:47,600 --> 01:09:54,159
and that will be one of them so uh uh

1630
01:09:50,799 --> 01:09:56,400
unless we get any objections you know uh

1631
01:09:54,159 --> 01:09:58,239
in the intervening time i mean that's

1632
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:03,840
that's what i would proceed

1633
01:09:58,239 --> 01:10:03,840
to include yeah perfect

1634
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:14,239
yup great thank you well

1635
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:16,640
with that uh having been uh

1636
01:10:14,239 --> 01:10:18,400
dealt with and um i don't think there's

1637
01:10:16,640 --> 01:10:21,920
any other business arising

1638
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:26,960
we've added the item that bob wished to

1639
01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:30,640
under item eight on the agenda um

1640
01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:33,760
in in peter's absence i will try to

1641
01:10:30,640 --> 01:10:34,960
um i think we're supposed to come up

1642
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,159
with some minutes

1643
01:10:34,960 --> 01:10:40,640
i'll put together something which i

1644
01:10:38,159 --> 01:10:41,920
hope is as brief as peter's were the

1645
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,920
last time

1646
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:49,440
and get that done uh and uh

1647
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:52,560
get on to the uh the more useful matter

1648
01:10:49,440 --> 01:10:54,960
of of drafting uh something for us to

1649
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:54,960
discuss

1650
01:10:55,440 --> 01:10:58,960
uh john if if it's okay with everybody

1651
01:10:57,679 --> 01:11:02,080
i'll i'll i'll

1652
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:04,080
um i wrote down some words about the the

1653
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:06,640
suggestion for a referendum

1654
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:07,679
uh let let me uh send you an email with

1655
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,480
a

1656
01:11:07,679 --> 01:11:12,719
a a suggestion of of how that that

1657
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:15,840
resolution could be uh

1658
01:11:12,719 --> 01:11:18,880
written up if that'll help you

1659
01:11:15,840 --> 01:11:20,560
yes i've got jotted down here

1660
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,719
something along the alliance of a

1661
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:26,400
resolution that the town

1662
01:11:22,719 --> 01:11:30,320
consider a non-binding referendum

1663
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:30,800
on uh what i heard to be a suggestion

1664
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,239
around

1665
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:38,320
almost all of these matters to do with

1666
01:11:34,239 --> 01:11:38,320
um ward

1667
01:11:39,040 --> 01:11:43,280
ward system voting or not or the current

1668
01:11:42,239 --> 01:11:46,800
system

1669
01:11:43,280 --> 01:11:48,159
and uh uh the current voting system or

1670
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:51,199
an electoral reform

1671
01:11:48,159 --> 01:11:54,400
uh sorry a uh

1672
01:11:51,199 --> 01:11:56,800
system so that it's framed around

1673
01:11:54,400 --> 01:11:58,320
all of this subject matter so that if

1674
01:11:56,800 --> 01:12:01,760
the council in fact

1675
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:02,080
doesn't wish to take any um decisions

1676
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,159
but

1677
01:12:02,080 --> 01:12:05,120
wants to kick it further down the can

1678
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:08,320
down the road

1679
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:10,800
and they can do so through a referendum

1680
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:12,719
yeah god i i think that that's good i i

1681
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,800
did yeah i wrote the three down

1682
01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:16,400
uh the question of current system ward

1683
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:18,400
system or ranked ballot you've said

1684
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:20,960
those i think that's perfect

1685
01:12:18,400 --> 01:12:23,840
good i'll draft up something along those

1686
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,840
lines

1687
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:31,120
with that said i wish you all

1688
01:12:28,159 --> 01:12:33,199
a safe december

1689
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:36,960
[Laughter]

1690
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:38,719
thank you may we stay in the same color

1691
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,840
whatever that color happens to be at the

1692
01:12:38,719 --> 01:12:43,199
present time

1693
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:43,920
uh i hate hate to be the bearer of bad

1694
01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:46,719
news but

1695
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:50,000
uh the word on the street is that uh

1696
01:12:46,719 --> 01:12:52,480
friday will probably go to red

1697
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:52,480
well yeah