[0:07] It's 7701.
Um, this is the
[0:12] August 25th Newcastle Sledboard meeting
on to order. Um, how many amendments to
[0:19] the agenda?
>> No. Okay. Hearing none, moving to
[0:26] meeting minutes. Um this is from the
previous meeting August 11th
[0:31] and um I believe two uh well I wasn't
here. Um so um
[0:37] » I'll move that we approve the minutes as
presented.
[0:41] » I'll second that.
>> Okay. Um those that were here um all
[0:46] those in favor.
Okay. That's four. My abstension because
[0:51] I wasn't present and that motion passes.
Moving to um
[0:58] unfinished business um fee schedule.
[laughter]
[1:05] » Oh yeah, maybe that's uh interesting.
Okay, public comments not on the agenda.
[1:11] Anybody?
Okay, not seeing anybody raise their
[1:15] hand. Moving to unfinished business fee
schedule.
[1:19] Um
now we had um street vendor application.
[1:24] We
Do you think we move that to before this
[1:29] or
>> this is fast?
[1:32] » Yeah. Okay. We'll just stick with the
fee schedule. Um I think this is um this
[1:38] is an amendment to what we approved in
July which was a revised fee schedule.
[1:44] Um apparently there's been some further
consideration by the staff
[1:49] um for active permits and it's we're
talking very minor changes here. $30 to
[1:54] kind of reorganize it a little bit um
just to make their life um their
[1:59] organization a little bit better. So I
think it's pretty straightforward.
[2:04] » I'll move to amend the fee schedule to
reflect the amounts identified in the
[2:08] provided proposed planning fee schedule
dated 821 2025.
[2:13] » Second that
>> it look it looked to me like the total
[2:17] fees for each of those items will remain
unchanged. They're just moving. If I
[2:22] understand it correctly, they have the
consistent $30 application fee and then
[2:27] the others will reduce to compensate for
that. Is that correct?
[2:30] » That is correct.
>> Okay.
[2:36] » Um so, uh let's take a vote. All those
in favor
[2:41] motion by
um nothing.
[2:46] » Okay. So, um, new business, we have a
vendor permit. Um, and this is for, um,
[2:54] so I'm just trying to get to the real
name of the business here.
[2:58] » Backyard Butchers.
>> Backyard Butchers. And I believe Ivan,
[3:01] you're on, um,
on the line here. Um, do you want to
[3:05] just tell us a little bit about your
business? Have a chance
[3:09] » yourself?
>> Can everybody hear me? Okay.
[3:12] » Absolutely.
>> Okay. Sorry, I apologize. I'm actually
[3:14] in the middle of coaching my son's
four-year-old T-ball team, so that's why
[3:17] I'm outside. Uh but I but uh this is a
welcome break. I appreciate it. Um
[3:22] anyhow, um yes, Backyard Butchers. Uh we
are a company. We've got about 16 trucks
[3:28] right now nationwide. They are freezer
trucks and what we do, we work with one
[3:33] excellent distributor um out of the
Chicago, Illinois area, Amity Packing
[3:38] Company Incorporated. They work with a
lot of local farms there in the in the
[3:42] Midwest. um provide high quality uh meat
meat products. Uh they process the the
[3:49] cattle, they uh prepare it for us and uh
what we do is we will then uh set up at
[3:56] just different uh private businesses
across the country. We'll market uh
[4:01] extensively through Facebook and radio
ads. So once we're approved to be there,
[4:05] you'll start seeing us pop up on
Facebook. you hear us in some of the
[4:08] local radio stations and uh we will set
up uh at the location um I think it's
[4:14] Louis Doe um there um in Newcastle uh
for about a week or so and we will sell
[4:20] these frozen and prepackaged meat
products. Uh we're able to offer them
[4:24] these high quality meat products at uh
discounted rates. Um so you'll get um uh
[4:30] they're all prepackaged meat so you
don't get to like pick and choose your
[4:33] cuts of meats but we do have like
different bundles that we offer. Um, so
[4:38] you'll probably hear about it from your
neighbors or friends or um and
[4:42] hopefully, you know, if anybody
listening wants to stop by. Guess it's
[4:45] like a free advertising if we get
approved. So, um, come on out. We'll
[4:49] make sure y'all get um, you know, great
products at a great price. Um, you'll
[4:53] see the 20 ribe eyes for uh, $39. So,
that's a smaller cutter ribeye, but it's
[4:59] an excellent cut. and and you can um
that usually gets people out there and
[5:03] we can offer them the larger larger
cuts, larger meat products that we
[5:07] offer. Um but yes, uh that's what we do.
We travel the country and um we have uh
[5:12] some success doing this and hopefully um
so we had to work with Department of A
[5:16] there in Maine uh to get three trucks
licensed. Uh we have those trucks uh
[5:21] currently licensed and they're good
through the end of the year. Um, so the
[5:25] department of bag there in Maine knows
that we're there and we've just
[5:28] contacted every city that we wanting to
to visit to make sure that all of the
[5:33] local licenses and permits are also
taken care of. So that's what we're
[5:36] hoping to do here tonight.
[5:41] » So it's all frozen, not like you're not
selling anything hot. It's just frozen
[5:45] meat.
>> No, no, we don't do the cooking
[5:47] ourselves. Uh, it's all frozen,
prepackaged, just like a ice cream truck
[5:52] for men. [laughter]
[5:56] And women, you know, women like steak,
too. Women like steak, too.
[6:00] » So, my understanding this is a one time
uh this is one one time deal for
[6:07] » correct
>> Wednesday to Monday.
[6:10] » We would like So, that's the current uh
request that we're asking. Wednesday
[6:13] through Monday. I will say that Maine uh
the the other locations that we've been
[6:17] in Maine um we've had a lot of positive
feedback from the different cells. um
[6:22] different communities. So, um it's
possible. I don't know if we have to
[6:26] appear before another select board or if
we can talk about it now. Um if the
[6:30] property owner is okay with us being
there for another week, we'd like to
[6:34] discuss that option as well. And if I
need to amend the application dates or
[6:38] provide new written permission, whatever
you need for me or if it's just, hey,
[6:42] this meeting was only for Wednesday
through Monday, perfectly okay. I
[6:45] understand that. And next time we are in
a meeting, I'll I'll be more uh you
[6:50] know, I'll add those details of
potentially wanting to extend past that
[6:53] initial week.
>> Yeah. Ivan, this this is this
[6:57] application here is for these dates. So
you'll have to come back for another
[7:02] » No.
>> Okay.
[7:02] » No,
>> the street vendor ordinance specifically
[7:05] says that um it's good for one year.
>> Oh, just dates on here.
[7:09] » Yeah, doesn't matter. Our approval is
good for a year.
[7:12] » All right. There you go.
>> There you go.
[7:14] » My mistake. Well, hopefully the
community likes being there and then
[7:20] we'll be I'll just send a courtesy email
um saying, "Hey, I think we're going to
[7:24] be here another week if it goes well."
>> Okay.
[7:28] » Motion to
approve the permit.
[7:33] » Sure. I'll make a motion to approve the
permit.
[7:36] » I'll second you. Got it. Okay. Karen and
Tom second. And um all those in favor
[7:43] opposed.
>> Okay. So, five nothing and that pass.
[7:49] Thank you.
>> Good luck, Ivan.
[7:51] » Appreciate it.
>> Excellent. Thank you. Is it So, can I
[7:54] just uh for clarity purposes, is it okay
for us to open this Wednesday? Will I
[7:58] get something via email after this
meeting or is there another like
[8:01] approval process after this?
>> I think you're good to go. That's it. I
[8:05] » Okay, perfect. Thank you all. Have a
wonderful evening. You
[8:11] » should have told him not to stand too
close to the battle.
[8:14] » Those kids are brutal.
>> That's right.
[8:20] » That's where he was though. That was
nice and sunny.
[8:22] » That looked like Texas to me. The fences
and such.
[8:25] » He's based in Texas.
>> Yeah,
[8:27] » that looked like my son's backyard. But
>> um Okay, new business item 6B. This is
[8:33] the W road miner span. Um, so we have um
we have some bid openings to do tonight
[8:42] and we had five contractors provide bids
on this um on this project and we have
[8:52] Carl IRS from that right
>> Carls from uh VHB
[8:58] and uh so why don't we have Carl come up
and run us through the bids.
[9:05] » Yeah. Thank you. Um, so the bid
analysis, I know Kevin, you had emailed
[9:10] that to everyone. I've got a hard copy.
Would anyone like a hard copy to
[9:16] » right behind you?
[9:24] » It's a lot of little numbers.
>> It It is. It is. And And if you can read
[9:29] them all, that's that's impressive. Um,
yeah. Actually, you know what? If he's
[9:35] got extras. Yeah. It' be easier.
>> It'd be easier to look at the whole
[9:40] thing.
>> Yeah.
[9:41] » Yeah. And for some reason when I zoom in
it doesn't
[9:45] » Well, he printed them out.
>> I don't you might need glass.
[9:49] » So, yeah, I don't you know, there's
there's a lot of data here and so you
[9:53] know, if you need a
um magnifying glass or something, I I
[9:58] understand. Um
>> Okay. The mark is up. Oh yeah, that's
[10:03] that's yours to to keep and frame if you
want whatever you want to do with it. Um
[10:10] uh yeah, so um like has been mentioned,
we received five five bits fast. Um
[10:18] would it be obviously they're listed at
the bottom and of of this handout. Um,
[10:24] and we have not yet posted them online,
but but we we will uh put them up uh to
[10:31] ju just the uh just the bids themselves
would be posted online.
[10:38] » Carl, yeah. Um before we get into the
numbers, can you just um just help us
[10:43] understand um you know so also people
new to the project just really quickly
[10:48] what the project is and then in just
those three sentences and then also the
[10:54] bid requirements the sort of lowhanging
requirements um you know bond issues um
[11:00] so just make sure all the qualifications
are in place so we don't have to
[11:04] disqualify anybody before we start
looking at numbers. Uh yeah. So uh the
[11:09] project itself consists of replacing
this three-sided uh concrete frame. This
[11:16] is 14 foot span frame on Lynch Road um
with a 50-ft span bridge that consists
[11:24] of concrete abutments
uh with a steel girder uh concrete deck
[11:30] superructure
uh and that also involves a stream
[11:34] realignment.
That's that's the uh project in a
[11:38] nutshell for for enhanced uh hydraulics.
Um so the uh yeah the contractor is uh
[11:50] required in addition to submitting a bid
uh is is required to um also submit a
[11:57] bond to uh just ensuring that they can
they can bond the the money required.
[12:03] Um, we we did uh we did specify
uh that they submit proof of of um
[12:13] ability to to do the work based on past
projects. Um not not all not all
[12:19] contractors uh did that. Um uh I will
say that uh all the contractors who who
[12:28] submitted that's that's ultimately a
matter of protection for the town. Uh
[12:32] all the contractors that did submit on
this I would say are are certainly
[12:37] competent if not highly competent to do
the work. Um I if if the town feels that
[12:44] those contractors that did not submit
those those uh the proof of of the three
[12:50] projects of former projects um if if the
town feels that they would like to see
[12:56] that they could require it. Um but but I
I would I would assure you that
[13:02] personally uh VHB knows and I know I
know personally that that all the
[13:07] contractors are are certainly competent
to do the work. Um and so you could you
[13:12] could uh yeah please
>> Well, no, I just sorry to cut you off. I
[13:16] was just to make quick reference to the
the bid requirements. I think the town
[13:22] has the right to wait or um you know any
details or um take the higher a little
[13:29] bit. So we have discretion on
>> that that is correct. Yeah.
[13:34] » Or if there were any concerns you could
just uh you could observe a
[13:40] non-compliance and request
request the the compliance of of proof
[13:46] of of prior experience. Um
uh so so yeah in in my opinion uh that
[13:54] that would that would not be required
for for these contractors but again
[13:59] that's that's up up to you that's that's
just my opinion. Um so uh
[14:06] as you can see uh and the numbers here
so so on the on the left hand side is
[14:15] the engineers estimate um
uh are that that is I I will be quite
[14:21] frank and say in the in the last few
years given the market volatility that
[14:28] is not an easy exercise and we have seen
plenty of cases is where uh bids come in
[14:35] wildly different from from our estimate.
Um and uh
[14:42] a number of humbling experiences in our
in our industry lately. However, um what
[14:48] so I just a couple of observations and I
I I I can would it be helpful for for
[14:54] the record for me to list off these five
bids or just talk generic? No, I think
[14:59] um I think audibly we should
>> Okay.
[15:01] » At least the bottom number and the firm
is.
[15:05] » Yeah. So, so CPM is the low bidder. Uh
their bid was uh 1,246,49624.
[15:15] Uh Wyman and Simpson was the next bidder
uh with $1,464,690.
[15:26] T-Buck
uh was next with $1,583,822
[15:34] and 0 cents. Reed and Reed next at
$1,980,1990.
[15:42] And then last, Scott Construction with
$2,224,530.
[15:49] Um
the uh the the range is uh is is a
[15:58] little striking.
Uh [laughter] it it it could be
[16:02] considered very striking. I have I have
seen uh a number of project I live in
[16:07] Kennybunk. There was a recent project
down there that that had a considerable
[16:12] range. So there there are a number of of
factors here. uh one of which includes
[16:18] that this is winter work. Uh there there
are various other factors that can play
[16:23] into that range. So that isn't
necessarily concerning
[16:27] um to me. Um what what is striking I I
was surprised to see that the average of
[16:35] the bids is almost spot on what our
estimate was. So yeah, take that or
[16:41] leave it. I was just surprised. So um
and pleased um
[16:48] and uh and and so um yeah I I I can I
can speak more about it but I but I
[16:56] think as a summary that that's a um none
of these bids are are concerning there
[17:04] the spread is relatively consistent.
Um and um uh the obviously the the low
[17:13] bid is is a little bit striking. Um but
uh yeah, there are a number of factors
[17:20] uh again including winter work, full
closure, various other things that um
[17:26] that who who knows. It's anybody's
guess, but that's it is what it is. So,
[17:31] so is there is there anything in your um
analysis of all these numbers that you
[17:38] want to draw our attention to or you
think stands out or have any particular
[17:42] importance or not?
>> Yeah, honestly um nothing in particular
[17:50] stands out very much um except that
perhaps the um the steel
[17:57] um
[18:02] What line item?
>> My apologies. Bear with bear with me
[18:07] here.
>> Yeah, there's um
[18:13] yeah, so um
you know the the uh the structural steel
[18:20] cost that's item 50471.
um you know that that um
[18:28] uh that is likely the fact that it came
in under our cost um is uh would
[18:34] probably be a seasonal factor here. Um
often times steel will will take a dip
[18:40] in the winter time and then you'll start
to see it pick up a bit in the spring.
[18:46] Um
and uh
[18:51] um yeah um
honestly other than that you know it's
[18:58] it's um
you know the the the uh the concrete
[19:04] prices were uh were were fairly
reasonable. Um
[19:10] uh that's that's one that's one item
that we like to take a look at is is
[19:16] what you know that that cost is an in in
place cost essentially. Um not just it's
[19:22] the material and the labor. Um
uh so
[19:29] yeah I
there there really isn't anything I mean
[19:33] if you have a question on any particular
item I I yeah sure yeah that's fine.
[19:39] » So just looking at the low bid they have
one two three four five six seven eight
[19:44] line items that to me don't make any
sense
[19:49] » have nothing in
>> they have 20 cents.
[19:51] » Yeah. So, um I I'm glad you asked about
that. So, um so those those items so so
[19:59] we put this out in accordance with I
would say um standard main DOT practice.
[20:07] um those particular items
um are are a way of covering contractors
[20:14] under under
any number of situations that they that
[20:18] that it it's a way to protect the the
contractor. Um CPM apparently chose to
[20:26] put that labor into other items.
>> Okay.
[20:29] » Um and so that that's just how they
chose their payment mechanism
[20:35] essentially.
>> Okay. Um, so yes, I I think it's
[20:38] reasonable to to to scratch your head at
that and wonder that's really a
[20:42] contractor choice.
>> Okay. And then the other thing and and
[20:46] you may not have any idea why it varies
so much, but the price of um the coffer
[20:51] dams varied wildly between contractors.
And is that
[20:55] » Yeah.
>> because they're um some of them are are
[21:00] putting other other parts of the project
into that copper dam price or is that
[21:04] just a different way of constructing the
copper dam or what's
[21:08] » Yeah.
>> Any thoughts? a little, you know, I I
[21:11] would I I would really not want to be
too dogmatic as to how what exactly is
[21:17] going on, but yes, it is possible that
the contractor
[21:22] um put put their money. You know,
sometimes because of where a a task
[21:30] occurs in a project can can drive
um where the contractor puts puts their
[21:37] money. So like the stream movement might
be factored into the coffer dam or
[21:42] something like that.
>> Um perhaps um perhaps it's means and
[21:46] methods as well. Um often times it's you
know and that's not something we can
[21:51] dictate.
>> Sure.
[21:52] » Um and so different contractors have
different means and methods and ways of
[21:56] getting it done.
>> So as long as they do so in accordance
[21:59] with,
>> you know, permitting and standards and
[22:02] everything, then that's acceptable. So
yeah,
[22:10] » you had uh drawn our attention to the
structural concrete line item
[22:16] 502.219.
>> That's right.
[22:21] You put a number of 375, but we range
from 275, 325, 375,
[22:29] 625,
and 4
[22:34] 37.
>> Yeah.
[22:35] » 500. Is that another case where other
numbers are being sort of absorbed into
[22:41] that line item? You think it's not like
we're getting more or less concrete?
[22:46] » It's possible. It's possible that uh
labor prices for particular contractors
[22:54] are dictating that. I again it's it's um
it's ultimately it is a question mark.
[23:01] » Okay.
>> Ultimately it is. Yeah. Yeah. I I I
[23:04] would say that um that for all of these
contractors, given both my personal
[23:12] experience and also the experience of my
colleagues, that that none of those
[23:18] numbers are are cause for suspicion or
anything like that. That they are that
[23:23] they are are reliable and competent
contractors.
[23:36] Yeah. any
>> can you um just um comment a little bit
[23:41] about the firms your familiarity with
the firms just in general like CPM
[23:48] is this firm um you know uh I did I did
a quick um review on you know the
[23:56] websites
>> kind of got an idea some are out of
[23:59] state some are regional some are main
local um just just want to get your sort
[24:04] of idea
>> yeah Um will will CPM uh will CPM Wyman
[24:11] and Simpson Tabach and Reed and Reed
have have a long history of uh you know
[24:17] respectively and in their different ways
have a long history of of doing of doing
[24:22] work of this kind. Scott Construction is
a bit newer. I have a colleague who has
[24:27] more a more intimate understanding of of
them than I can speak to. Um I I I
[24:34] personally have uh worked with CPM and
Reed Reed uh excuse me, Tbuk on uh on a
[24:40] few projects. Uh yeah, they do they just
they do a lot of work for main DOT.
[24:45] Wyman and Simpson. Reed and Reed has
done work in the state for 100 years. Um
[24:49] so they're they are uh all of these
contractors are well known to the DOT
[24:56] DOT folk and and have done yeah they've
done a lot of work in this state over
[25:01] the years and and this sort of a project
would be bread you know the standard
[25:06] like bread and butter for them. So
>> yeah um did that did that answer your
[25:11] question?
>> Yeah that was it.
[25:15] » Yeah.
I mean projects that like people have
[25:19] seen in the area for various you know
companies like Reed and Reed did the
[25:23] route one
bridge uh debuck did the route 90 in
[25:29] Warren
>> um I don't know if you guys go up route
[25:33] 90 that that bridge replacement
>> um Wyman and Simpson right now I just
[25:38] saw a 95 they're doing some overpass
work there
[25:42] » they're doing some overpass work CPM was
recently awarded Um, exit 15 uh over
[25:49] 295.
>> Yeah.
[25:50] » Um, so
>> Scott, I feel like I've seen them
[25:53] somewhere, but I can't
>> I I am not Yeah, again they're they're
[25:58] they're a bit newer, but but they they
have they have been around a little bit.
[26:03] Um, so yeah, I again I have a colleague
who has a more um more intimate
[26:10] awareness of all the comingings and
goings of of the contracting community.
[26:14] Um and uh and and he he trusts uh Scott
as well. So yeah, know stuff. So
[26:27] » I'm kind of curious if Seth if you have
any thoughts or any questions. I know
[26:32] you just got the information.
>> Yeah, I mean I can um I can tell you
[26:37] that there's a lot to be, you know,
looked at with this. I wasn't involved
[26:41] in any project. Never saw any of the
plans. never asked anything. Board never
[26:45] asked any opinions. So, I mean, I can't,
but I can tell you that this bin numbers
[26:50] here, I realize he has his take, but if
you're going to use these bid numbers
[26:54] here, I would analyze the bid numbers
where you're going to get caught.
[26:58] » What do you mean?
>> All these bid numbers are used to charge
[27:01] you any actors that come as change
orders as well.
[27:07] » Okay. So when you use your when you use
your unit items, if there's a change
[27:11] order halfway through, these are the
items that you're g these are the prices
[27:15] that you're going to pay.
These are also the prices you're going
[27:18] to pay when you ask for additional. So
Rufus, to your point, if I'm going to
[27:22] here and I have a contractor that bids a
penny, then I guess I'd be having him
[27:26] ditch all the lintro, [laughter]
>> right?
[27:29] » I'm dead serious.
>> Yeah.
[27:32] » Because these these are the formal
within the scope. You know what I'm
[27:34] saying? So, if you're going to have them
come back or if you see something
[27:37] [clears throat] that develops in the
project that needs to go or they're
[27:40] going to charge you a change order
associated with it, those are the unit
[27:43] prices that you should be paying
associated with that. Now, I I
[27:47] personally would draw I mean there there
are some things in here that that I
[27:51] would I would personally be like, well,
wait a minute a second. I know that from
[27:56] our review of doing this internally,
there was a lot of discrepancy in the
[28:00] conference
>> because there are some people here that
[28:03] don't understand or did not review the
geotech report in full
[28:08] » and there is going to be some serious
questions that come as a result of that
[28:11] geotech because the geotech was very
very specific to the soil conditions on
[28:15] where they were and if they don't
acknowledge that and they come back and
[28:19] hit you with a change order, you could
be looking at some substantial changes.
[28:22] So these guys need to really do some due
diligence that they understand that
[28:26] because it was very very very clear that
some sort of reinforced
[28:33] um sheep pile or something for your
geotech especially in the footings was
[28:37] required as a result of the soil
conditions there and I know that we got
[28:42] a lot of questions about that particular
question. So I would draw some some
[28:47] severe consideration to those particular
line items there. I think there's line
[28:52] items in here that we could do much
cheaper. Um, quite frankly, under your
[28:57] maintenance stuff. I mean, I I wouldn't
pay I wouldn't pay um $1,200 to get rid
[29:03] of a Drew.
So, you know, there are some things in
[29:07] here that I think that we can prep for
that would save you some money overall
[29:11] before you get there. Um, that would
kind of help.
[29:15] CPM currently is doing a bridge down in
Bristol. They're just they're the ones
[29:19] on the lower round pond road. Okay.
They're very very reputable company.
[29:23] They do a good job. Wyman Simpsons
top-notch. Tbeck Scott out of um stock
[29:28] constructions out of loose in the Auburn
area. So we don't see them a lot down
[29:30] here, but they've done some pretty
considerable size projects. They're kind
[29:34] of new to the bridge construction world,
but I don't think any of these guys are
[29:38] going to get hurt by any of them as far
as their ability to pull off the work. I
[29:42] know there was a lot of concern about
the timing of the year. To Ben's point
[29:46] about the concrete, I would be very very
cautious to make sure that they have
[29:51] definitely included all of the heating
and that they're not going to come back
[29:54] at you because there's a fair amount of
work associated with keeping that
[29:58] concrete right um through the winter
through the winter months and that's
[30:02] that's a large part of it.
>> The other thing is I don't do you have
[30:07] oversight bid in this?
It's part of
[30:11] » we are we are under contract freight.
>> So that's an addition to this.
[30:17] » Do you know what that what's the cost
for that or or what's the scope
[30:21] associated with it? Do you know?
>> I'm estimating that um we probably have
[30:26] close to $400,000 of additional expenses
tied to all the design work that's been
[30:31] done to date as well as the as well as
that. So if you let's
[30:38] for conversation's sake just take the
1.2 and tack on another 400,000.
[30:45] » That's I think what this project is
ultimately going to tell us and we will
[30:50] assuming mitigation comes in through
FEMA. That'll put us up to uh 90% of
[30:56] that. So we would be on the hook for
140,000
[31:01] I'm sorry 160,000.
[31:05] It's my
today's estimate.
[31:11] Now if there are change orders that come
in related to this drives up part of the
[31:16] project costs but if the
approved
[31:20] replacing kind plus mitigation from FEMA
is what I think it will be at the 1.8 a
[31:27] be okay.
[31:31] Anything above that that becomes a risk.
>> So the other consideration that you have
[31:38] is this going to be over the winter.
We're going to close the road down. I'm
[31:41] assuming
what are we going to do about plowing
[31:46] » where you can turn around?
>> How are we going to Yeah. How are we
[31:49] going to forecast that where that
interfaces comes through? The other
[31:54] issue is rather we we can come back
through Edgecom obviously. Um but
[32:02] it's different for sure. Um for those
people that are living on that side. Um
[32:09] » so the roads closed down for how long?
[32:14] » It's got to be at least
>> length of the project
[32:16] » at least.
>> Yeah. It's um pretty much October. I
[32:21] mean essentially when the contractor
gets started presumably will be October
[32:26] time frame or late September. Um and
then uh due to the paving operations we
[32:34] said July is when they needed to reopen.
So
[32:41] » yeah. So that's that's a good question.
>> Yes. Yeah. are.
[32:45] » Yeah,
[32:50] » there's no way around it, too. There's
no way to get a temporary bypass for
[32:53] there. You have to close this road.
There's no way about it,
[32:56] » right? Yeah.
>> The um and your cost would be
[33:00] substantially more if you did something
like that. So, it's it's in your best
[33:03] interest to keep it that way and just
make it make it work around it for those
[33:07] that live there. You know, it's it's the
only way to do it.
[33:12] Um Carl, is it fair to ask that in um
your experience with say the two lower
[33:19] bits on this that um they're typically
on the low end of the competitive scale
[33:25] or is that
>> um
[33:29] » that that's a hard so um there are a lot
of factors that that go into that that
[33:38] are
known best among the contracting
[33:41] community. Um, how how bad do they want
the project? Um, and there are there are
[33:48] just there are a number of factors that
go into that. Um,
[33:53] so sometime Yeah. Um,
>> you see them all over.
[33:58] » They're all over. Yeah. I I don't Yeah.
Yep. So, so that'll that'll come in
[34:04] cycles as to what and there there are
any number of factors that come into
[34:09] come into that. Yes. Yeah.
>> One of the problems that we're facing
[34:13] with making the decision is the fact
that this will be the third time we're
[34:17] replacing this in less than 20 years.
And to reduce the decision to a bottom
[34:27] dollar figure
uh has not worked in the past.
[34:35] » Twice it hasn't worked in the past.
So I'm
[34:41] uh I mean I'm struggling to find
something else to latch on to not being
[34:46] in the trade myself that would give me
the confidence to make the decision such
[34:50] that it's not going to we're not going
to be doing this again another five 10
[34:55] years
>> that's important
[34:59] those two projects
>> we well yeah
[35:03] I get that but both times we were
assured that
[35:09] both times we were assured that
everything had been taken to into
[35:12] account. This was the permanent fix.
We'd never have to do it again.
[35:15] » Yeah.
>> Um so, you know, all things being equal,
[35:19] what I'm looking for is some bit of
insight other than a number that would
[35:25] tell us this is the way to go. And
I don't really um take the view that you
[35:33] know the old sort of conventional wisdom
which I don't agree with anymore of you
[35:36] know throw out the low and the high bid
choose someone in the middle that that
[35:40] doesn't work for me.
>> I want to base it something on on
[35:43] something more rational than that.
>> So um I guess put you on the spot but
[35:49] like you know what I'm looking for.
>> I mean I I can I can appreciate that.
[35:53] » Yeah. Um that is quite frankly why we
were hired to do all of the uh
[36:01] preliminary analysis that we did to say
to to find the right solution. And part
[36:08] of it is a um part of it is a change in
conditions, right? That uh there used to
[36:15] be a lake just just downstream of this
with a certain set of hydraulic
[36:21] conditions, right? that feature changes
and now that changes the the situation
[36:29] at at at this site here. And so um and
so yeah, we we had um our
[36:38] best hydraulic engineer uh looking at
this. He's widely recognized uh across
[36:44] the state and across New England for for
his work in this field to ensure that
[36:49] that we have the right solution here. Um
and so uh and so I I will say when we
[36:57] when we entered into this whole process
that very point had us pretty much in
[37:04] the same situation. This has happened
twice. This shouldn't happen again. And
[37:08] so and so the entire design was based on
that.
[37:13] » Uh at the end of the day, it comes uh it
comes down to to the contractor's
[37:19] ability to execute the work as we have
laid out in the contract. Um and and I
[37:25] would say uh I I would say that we have
a good uh I mean we've pretty much have
[37:32] a wealth of contractors here um to who
are competent to do the work. And I
[37:37] would say, you know, I mean, just just
as I would agree exactly as as Seth laid
[37:43] out, uh, all these contractors are
highly competent to do so. Um, and and
[37:50] so so yeah,
>> two questions about that. Yeah. The the
[37:53] first one is, you know, the first time
the bridge, and unfortunately I've been
[37:57] on this board long enough to have
survived through all of this.
[38:01] Um the first one when it went in um they
hadn't accounted for the proper amount
[38:06] of hydraology like you spoke about uh
and it washed out because of flooding
[38:11] from the lake or pond or whatever you
call it. No, this time it washed out
[38:16] from the other side, the upland side.
And um so what I hear you saying is your
[38:25] hydraology expert has taken all of that
into account.
[38:29] That that report was done for this board
prior to you you coming back on.
[38:33] » There is a full report that shows this
board met with BHB staff and reviewed it
[38:39] to make the decision that the bridge was
the next best option to solve this
[38:43] problem.
>> So not worried about the design. It's
[38:46] more about just picking a firm to
>> um and so that that takes me to my next
[38:51] question which is sorry
>> I guess so frame your mind in a little
[38:55] bit different viewpoint. Okay. the
engineers. We've all heard this, right?
[39:01] And nobody has seen the water come over
that bridge like we've seen it. We've
[39:04] I've seen the water come up over the top
of that bridge. There's no hydrarology
[39:08] report that shows that that is really
going to be possible. But when we get 6
[39:12] and 12 ines in 45 minutes,
>> right, which was supposed to be 100year,
[39:16] never going to happen, right? And we saw
it.
[39:19] » So I completely get you. But nobody has
designed this at all to be 7 and 1/2 ft
[39:25] below the elevation of the existing
stream bed with your footer.
[39:31] And that's where this is going.
>> Okay. So, we're we're we're pinning this
[39:36] all the way down underneath that. So, no
matter how much flushing you're going to
[39:39] go, the only reason that this box call
failed was just because it got
[39:43] underneath the footer, which in part was
because we didn't have a lot of
[39:46] oversight over there when that was put
in. because if it was installed a little
[39:50] bit differently, that shouldn't have
happened. This time you got oversight
[39:54] and you got a different spec. And on top
of that, the biggest difference between
[39:58] this and anything else that we've done
is that the different the stream widths
[40:02] have changed. He's designed this one to
1.2. So before where they were able to
[40:07] get away with something that's a little
bit tighter, now we've taken that span
[40:10] and not only are are we widening up, but
the volume of that is increased
[40:15] dramatically. So we shouldn't get that
flush. Well, the elevation increase
[40:19] substantially as well.
>> Correct. If we get something that washes
[40:22] out and undermines the footer on this,
then we've got a much bigger problems
[40:26] because we're going substantially
greater than what we're going to block.
[40:29] The other side is if you look at the
footings that they have proposed for
[40:32] this compared to what we have for
existing footing.
[40:35] » Mhm.
>> Uh I mean night and day difference. I
[40:39] mean you've got feet worth of backside
on your footings coming back that the
[40:43] walls are resting on. Your wing walls
are holding this in. So, we're looking
[40:47] at a design that we've never seen before
over there that would I mean, I have no
[40:52] doubt that this will take some some
water. You should feel very comfortable
[40:55] that where we're going with this is
something that we don't have anything
[40:59] like this. The bridge out on on um
Saltron Neck Road is is even a different
[41:04] design cuz that's microl beams that are
driven in pile that are driven in and
[41:08] they're capped and put on the top. So,
this design is of a completely different
[41:12] design than even that one out there. And
you see what that one takes from
[41:16] movement with the tides in and out every
day. And we've had very little problems
[41:20] with the settling on that outside. This
this will take it all day long without a
[41:24] doubt. No problem.
>> Cool.
[41:27] [clears throat] Wrong side. So, um,
do you have a recommendation?
[41:33] I
>> mean, uh, again, like like I've said,
[41:37] um, I I trust I trust all these
contractors. Um, I I I do I do recommend
[41:43] the low CPM.
Um,
[41:47] so um I I think I think you'll get uh
just as good of a quality of product
[41:55] with with any of the contractors.
So, um I mean I got um we got to keep in
[42:03] mind too we hired a reputable
>> well respected firm and they spend a lot
[42:09] of money on their contract documents. So
um you know at the end of the day it's
[42:15] like any other contract
it's you know all the geological
[42:20] information is in the is in the bid
documents. It's all there. Um, if
[42:24] there's any unforeseen, I don't know. I
mean,
[42:29] Carl, what would be like what would be
an unforeseen in this situation? Is
[42:34] there any way to stop it?
>> Oh, um,
[42:39] so there's always risk when you're
dealing with bedrock.
[42:44] Um,
you you you take borings, you do your
[42:49] best, you know. Um, you you hire a good
geotechnical engineer who knows the lay
[42:55] of the land in general, who's seen it
before. Um, but there's always risk when
[43:01] when you're when you're on bedrock.
That's just the way it is. Um, and you
[43:05] got two points, right? Two little holes
in the ground. Well, you know what?
[43:10] What's it doing, right? So, we do our
best to
[43:16] reasonably and conservatively estimate
what what are you what are you getting
[43:21] into there? Um, and sometimes it works
out for the better. Sometimes it's
[43:27] sometimes it's kind of painful. Um, in
this case
[43:31] uh because of the bedrock outcroppings
uh that that were that are visible,
[43:38] there's less I dare say. And of course,
I I even hate to say say this, but
[43:43] there's less risk because you can
actually you can go out there and just
[43:47] kind of see where it is. Now, does that
mean that in the middle of it in some
[43:52] special place it doesn't dip way down 20
ft? I nobody nobody knows. But but but
[43:59] it it's it's um
yeah, so so that that I would say is one
[44:06] of the biggest risks. Um
um
[44:16] think think through the uh elements of
the project here because
[44:21] um
you know what one of the uh
[44:28] so
[44:32] one of the questions that came up at the
pre-bid meeting was tariffs.
[44:39] Um
so
[44:43] technically that is a risk
um
[44:49] uh that you know that the contractor can
only go off of
[44:54] within reason uh today's steel prices.
Um,
[45:01] so yeah, that that is
and I won't venture
[45:08] I wouldn't dare venture to tell how
large or small a risk that is, but it is
[45:12] a risk. Um,
so
[45:20] » but there was vendors that bid from the
country in country on every item on
[45:23] this. I can tell you that 100%.
>> Yes, that's right. So if somebody comes
[45:27] to you and says that they want more
money because of a tariff, it's because
[45:32] they took their risk at that price and
then rolling that cost over to you
[45:36] » because there was a steadfast number
given to them from in country first.
[45:40] Um, so one of my I guess one of my
concerns with CPM a little bit to Seth's
[45:46] previous point about change orders and
such. We don't know what their
[45:52] um what their pricing is like for
straight excavator time or labor or that
[45:58] sort of thing. You know, everybody else
we know Wyman and Simpson it's going to
[46:02] be $150 an hour for allpurpose
excavation or it's going to be$130 or
[46:06] 230 or you know there's that's all
listed. I don't believe that if we had a
[46:15] change order they would keep their one
cent per hour pricing on excavation.
[46:23] Well, so the the specification is based
on that the basis of payment is on the
[46:32] work performed.
>> Okay.
[46:34] » Not how do you perform it?
>> Okay.
[46:38] » So it's on them.
>> Correct. That that's that's how they
[46:45] that that's how they put that in there.
So,
[46:49] » but if we do end up with a change order,
how do we know
[46:55] what that price is? I guess I just I'm
I'm confused as to how if
[47:02] I mean I know we have a we have a a
great RP like we know what we want, but
[47:07] if something changes, say the bedrock is
20 ft lower than expected, how do we
[47:12] know what that
>> So, because so so that's a good example.
[47:18] Um, so because that's a cubic yard item,
right? Someone can go out into
[47:26] the real world on on site
and estimate
[47:31] how much material have you removed, how
much bedrock,
[47:35] » right?
>> And the contractor could say, "Well, I
[47:39] pick a number. I did I I actually pulled
out a thousand yards." But Seth can go
[47:43] over there and be like, "I'm going to
take this measurement and this
[47:46] measurement." It's not 1,000 yards. It's
250 yards. That that's like that's the
[47:53] basis of basis of payment.
>> Okay.
[47:56] » Is that is that someone is able to in
the units where there are where there
[48:03] are not lump sum items that that someone
is able that someone physically
[48:09] measures that quantity.
Um and however they however they got
[48:16] that quantity out is is uh is is up to
them. means and methods in the lump sum
[48:23] items that is that the LS that is purely
has the work been performed
[48:32] and they get paid uh on on that basis of
either has it been done again it depends
[48:39] on the item but it's all it's all in the
main DOT spec book um has has that work
[48:45] been performed or has this work been 50%
performed
[48:50] or And so we'll pay 50% at this time. Uh
again, that that is all in the nuances
[48:58] of of the specbook, but it it is it is
observable
[49:03] based on has been done, not not how is
it done.
[49:07] » It's 110% bid.
>> Yeah.
[49:11] » Yeah. 110%. That That's right.
>> Fair enough.
[49:14] » That's right.
>> Yeah. That's all it is. Because they
[49:17] could get burned on other things. 100%.
the resident says, "Hey, I really want
[49:21] you to go over there and move that rock.
It's not in the bid and whatever. I'll
[49:25] pay you an hour worth of excavator time,
they're going to get paid a penny,
[49:29] » right?"
>> So, you know, we have we done this
[49:33] before? We have absolutely done this
before because when you look at all this
[49:36] and they put in here and they have
cones, drums, and type three barricades,
[49:40] right? Those are all penny because how
many cones are you really going to use
[49:43] on a road closure?
>> Right.
[49:45] » Two.
>> It's It's a way to get your It's Right.
[49:48] Exactly. It's a way to get your number
down. That's all that it is to compare
[49:52] it. Whereas, if a resident goes and then
goes to Wyman Simpson says, "Hey, so and
[49:56] so is complaining up the street. I want
you to put out 15 cones to help slow
[50:00] traffic down by their driveway because
we got to compete. It's going to cost
[50:04] you $20 times 15."
>> Except it doesn't just go from owner to
[50:12] contractor, right?
>> Yeah. Right. Exactly. That's right. It
[50:15] goes to goes to you. Yeah.
>> And then it goes to town manager and
[50:19] then they get a a proposal request from
the HP to the contractor. How much is
[50:25] going to cost the deal's work?
>> The project resident really should have
[50:29] control over that budget and be correct
in that under the guidance of whatever
[50:32] you guys would give for a contingency.
That's the other thing that you should
[50:35] have in here. I don't know what you're
planning on for a contingency, but I'm
[50:39] sure Kevin probably has a number in
mind, but what do you guys have roughly
[50:42] for a contingency for this? But I don't
think we've gotten there yet.
[50:48] » 15%. Is that what we
>> That's That's what we were That's what
[50:51] we were talking about.
>> 15%.
[50:53] » 15. That's right.
>> So about in this case, 1200 200. Okay.
[50:58] » No,
>> that seems
[51:01] generous.
Is that
[51:03] » No, I don't I don't do roads, but this
>> we'll say no.
[51:06] » I I would say that's all all
>> Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
[51:13] So to address what Seth said earlier,
who's
[51:18] I didn't read the bid specs. I don't
know anything about construction, but is
[51:23] does somebody check to see or is it
written out somewhere like how they're
[51:28] supposed to keep the concrete warm in
the middle of winter if it's going to be
[51:32] a high of five degrees that
>> that is all that is all in
[51:36] specification. It is okay. It it is.
Yes, it is. DHB will have an on-site
[51:42] person.
>> Okay.
[51:43] » We'll have a person who visits and make
sure that things are being performed. We
[51:49] we p we work with the contractor to
understand their schedule whi when
[51:55] they're going to be doing things and and
um yeah we're we we were not uh given
[52:03] the nature of this project we were not
intending to have someone permanently on
[52:09] site for the entire duration of the
project. I don't think that would be the
[52:12] best best use of time and money but uh
we work with the contractor to see okay
[52:18] when are you doing what and then we will
plan accordingly to to ensure the
[52:24] quality of the of the work.
>> Generally that comes down to kind of
[52:29] what once a week once every other
>> yeah I think I think we budgeted on once
[52:33] a week.
>> Okay.
[52:34] » Yeah.
Yep.
[52:39] it would not be it would not be
any more infrequent than once every
[52:46] other week.
Um but but again that that also that's
[52:52] not necessarily going to be a consistent
some some tasks will require more time
[52:58] and some will some will require less to
ensure quality control. Yeah. Yeah. How
[53:05] when this when you bid this out is that
all testing on the owner the compaction
[53:13] » QAQC testing is it all based on is the
owner?
[53:17] » That's a great that's a great question.
I I I'd have to get back on on that.
[53:24] No. So you build a contingency, you have
that little bit of money. So it's not
[53:28] the end of the world either way. But
just know, so typically, I say
[53:32] typically, but most DOT work, they come
out and they'll do all your gradation
[53:36] testing, all your compaction testing,
all your slum concrete testing. They'll
[53:40] come out, certify your steel. They'll
come out and look at all your uh um um
[53:47] elastic
for your uh bridge joints and all that
[53:51] stuff.
>> DOT
[53:52] » DOT will, but that's all there cost. So
a lot of times these jobs are typically
[53:56] the owner bornes the cost of the QAQC
testing when they come there to make
[54:01] sure because it's there to protect you.
Therefore if you get a failing result
[54:06] you can then go back on the contractor
and say hey look this is the deal. So if
[54:10] you have I don't know if your
contingency covers
[54:14] what portion of that covers your testing
or not but just know that some of that
[54:18] may pull away from that so that it may
lower your contingency overall. But I
[54:23] would highly highly recommend that you
have which I'm sure these guys these
[54:26] guys do a pretty good job of that that
they have built in there. But the more
[54:30] that you pull that it's going to give
you some good information to have
[54:34] » which just comes into coordination with
timing on everything to make sure that
[54:37] somebody's there to do that.
>> Carl, your your contract BHP doesn't do
[54:43] on site testing. Is that third?
>> We we do not. That would be third party
[54:48] testing.
It's like a SW pole or somebody like
[54:52] that comes out does all that stuff.
>> That's right. So um what what are we
[54:58] like what would be prudent like what's a
good what would you want to do for
[55:02] testing this I mean concrete I think is
obvious right
[55:07] test
>> all all of these materials to a certain
[55:10] degree will have some degree of testing
so something less than one is like
[55:14] you're not going to probably test your
mulch it all depends on how picky you're
[55:16] going to get but in general scope your
hot tops your gravels your concrete your
[55:21] metal your concrete Um,
uh, I'm just trying to think of what
[55:27] else you'll have. Those are your
probably your biggest ticket items that
[55:31] you'll have. Um, you're going to want to
see, quite frankly, you're going to want
[55:35] to see some reports on your your sheet
piling because they're going to want to
[55:40] put a submitting that's got a stamp PE
in case somebody gets killed behind
[55:44] sheep pile that's there that you know
that they've got to stamp because you're
[55:47] deep in the ground. There's some
portions of this that are
[55:52] legit. like you got to really be kind of
squared away. So, um you're going to
[55:56] want to kind of see that. Um all these
submitts will come back and get approved
[56:00] by VHP anyways. So, every single line
item that you have down through here, we
[56:05] have a submitt that would go there.
They're going to review it and approve
[56:08] it and send it back to the contractor
for use. If they see something that they
[56:12] don't like, they'll reject it and
they'll say, "Hey, you got to do XYZ in
[56:16] order to comply with the specification."
To your point, every single one of these
[56:20] line items has at least a paragraph. if
not more that specifically outlines
[56:25] exactly what it is and every technical
aspect associated with it. So that
[56:29] submitt has to address all that. These
guys are paid to review that and then
[56:33] give a ruling back. You'll never see it,
but it's either approved or not approved
[56:37] or approved with comments.
>> That's right.
[56:41] » Good.
>> So that's a process. the real problem is
[56:46] comes and he's here for a week that I
see the biggest gap is that and not that
[56:51] anybody is going to do that. We're no
different, right?
[56:54] But
the over the reason that the DOT pricing
[56:59] is what DOT pricing is is because
there's a resident or an inspector 247
[57:04] there associated with that job. This
case we're not going to have quite so
[57:09] much that flexibility. So it's really
important wherever you decide to go that
[57:15] you really feel comfortable with because
they need to do that. You guys see me on
[57:19] your projects. Every single project I am
there. I am hounding the guides. You got
[57:24] to have compaction. You got to do this.
I want to see my mix design. Whatever it
[57:27] is, right? So whoever you pick, you just
need to make sure that you're as
[57:32] comfortable with them doing that when
they're not here
[57:36] » as possible. That's really where it
comes down to where you're going to get
[57:39] your quality because
>> how do we judge that?
[57:44] » You go by reputation. And to his point,
you know, you're going to be fine with
[57:47] any of the three lowest biders. I'm not
going to just speak to the top ones just
[57:51] because of budget. They would do just as
well, I'm sure, but you're going to be
[57:54] fine with any of the three lowest
biders. Those guys are going to do those
[57:58] guys are going to do good work. Um, you
know, that they're they're pretty
[58:02] reputable. They're they've been around
for a long time. They're all local. you
[58:06] know, W Simpsons just up in Richmond.
They're not very far away. CPM again is
[58:10] not very far and tuck is at Turner.
>> I think that's right. Yeah. Yep.
[58:16] » Um and they used to do a lot of utility
stuff and they recently kind of got into
[58:19] bridges and stuff. They're they're
around. You know, you're not going to be
[58:22] you're not going to be um out in left
field with any of them. I from my
[58:29] perspective to help you in this decision
a little bit. We have supplied numbers
[58:34] to all five of them for all of the earth
work and all the paving and stuff. I
[58:40] don't know who carried us. I can use I
can see the unit pricing here. Um they
[58:44] all seem to have carried our numbers. I
don't I can't speak to that 100%. But
[58:49] for any numbers that we will be there in
any you know I'll be there on site as
[58:54] well. We go you know wearing both hats
to try to help in both. So, you'll
[58:58] actually give them some work on
>> hopefully. I mean, we'll we'll see. You
[59:02] know, it depends. They they can choose
not to use us as well, but
[59:06] » um if that's the case, then that helps.
But we're doing all the earth work right
[59:09] now for CPM in Bristol and all the
pavement.
[59:15] » So, it um and I don't know if they again
I don't know for sure, but Wyman is
[59:19] something is very is very similar in
that nature as well that a lot of those
[59:23] guys do that. So when you have do this
cost evaluation and you've determined
[59:28] who that's really what you want to get
who you want to get in bed with who you
[59:31] want to partner with is who you're going
to feel comfortable with doing that you
[59:34] know when somebody is not there and I
think you'll be fine with any of them. I
[59:39] just my only concern for you guys is to
worry about the things that
[59:45] everything does have a spec. We had a
full-blown spec like this. We got into a
[59:48] box culvert that was very similar on 32.
with the geotech report was not quite as
[59:53] tight. And then $480,000
later, we're driving sheet piling.
[1:00:01] » Okay. So, even though there is spec, I
just want you to be aware that there are
[1:00:05] things that just because it says this,
if there's field conditions dictate
[1:00:09] otherwise, it might shift something
somewhere somehow. That contingency goes
[1:00:14] very, very quick. So, just be prepared.
And the these unit cost numbers are
[1:00:19] where these guys are going to base a lot
of their stuff off of. That's like their
[1:00:23] their base kind of like where we want to
go.
[1:00:27] » Of course, change orders after the fact
are going to cost you money all the way.
[1:00:30] It's just the way it is.
[1:00:34] » Hate spending money.
>> I don't mind spending money.
[1:00:38] » I hate it.
>> No, I don't mind spending money at all.
[1:00:41] It's it's
>> We have
[1:00:44] » Yeah. uh in recent years adopted the
attitude that um we're going to spend
[1:00:51] money smartly
>> that we're going to seek the best
[1:00:55] quality and that's a consideration
before cost.
[1:00:59] Um and I don't want to,
you know, I don't want to throw that all
[1:01:04] away, but what I'm hearing from sort of
everybody is
[1:01:10] since I don't know what I'm talking
about, it's just I got to trust you
[1:01:13] guys.
But that's what we're, you know, you
[1:01:18] only know so much. That's why everybody
always hires a consultant, no matter
[1:01:22] what it is.
[1:01:30] » What do we need?
>> Well, we need to pick somebody.
[1:01:34] » That's what our
>> electric contractor. If you're not ready
[1:01:36] to do that tonight,
>> potentially
[1:01:40] » we need to get on this because
>> yesing
[1:01:44] » what I I mean I'll just I think what we
should do is pick somebody on this sheet
[1:01:50] and then the next meeting I think as you
propose we figure out the money
[1:01:58] on this thing
that's the that's the next step in this
[1:02:03] but we don't have we don't have a lot of
I think if we push this out to the next
[1:02:08] meeting and we'll come back and we're
looking at numbers then that meeting not
[1:02:12] only picking somebody then we're talking
about funding it as well
[1:02:17] » but that's already September if they're
looking at getting started.
[1:02:19] » Yeah. And we've got we've got
limitations on on funding too. So this
[1:02:25] has got to get going.
>> Well, as we've learned, waiting does not
[1:02:29] make it cheap,
>> right? Yeah,
[1:02:31] » in all fairness to everybody when we
were looking at ordinance this bigger
[1:02:34] your metal your steel he's he's right
tariffs there are companies outside of
[1:02:38] the US that bid this but the stuff
inside they need a little bit of lead
[1:02:42] time so the more you do push it back
that's the biggest
[1:02:46] » that's right
>> all right well I'm prepared to make a
[1:02:51] motion if there's
>> well let's let's before I mean so you're
[1:02:58] going to need to make a motion for a
select
[1:03:00] But um is there any way we can have a
discussion on straw pole or some way to
[1:03:09] » Well, I mean
>> the motion
[1:03:12] » the official the official way to do it
is make a motion about a contract. If it
[1:03:15] doesn't get seconded, somebody else
um if we if I make a motion for a
[1:03:21] contractor and somebody second it, we
discuss it, we vote on it, could still
[1:03:25] go down and then we have to make a
motion for another contractor.
[1:03:29] I mean,
>> that would be the way to approach it.
[1:03:31] » Thank you.
>> I mean, I I I get what you're saying,
[1:03:35] but I think we just kind of
>> Okay,
[1:03:39] » buckle up.
>> Go for it.
[1:03:40] » I will make a motion to select CPM as a
contractor for the mill bridge
[1:03:46] replacement and authorize the town
manager manager to sign a contract.
[1:03:54] further discussion.
[1:03:59] I mean, they're the obvious little bit
like
[1:04:04] » I'm usually not comfortable with little
bit. That's that's my holdback is and
[1:04:09] you know again it's like the the
question about
[1:04:12] um did they actually take into account
what is needed for the copper as they
[1:04:18] are considerably lower you know they are
the lowest on that that line item um and
[1:04:27] I don't you know
>> but they're in line with what the
[1:04:30] » they are in line with what the engineers
so
[1:04:34] » are we comfortable with that are they
going to is there going to be some
[1:04:37] unforeseen?
>> I mean I'm comfortable with CPM. Um I
[1:04:44] resort
I take confidence in you have a tight
[1:04:49] set of compound documents that this
project
[1:04:53] unforeseen. So that could happen with
any of these guys. I mean not everybody
[1:04:58] knows exactly what what alleges some you
know. So, you know, everybody's
[1:05:04] reputable. I think you'll consult who
who's got an opinion on this, too.
[1:05:11] » Well, we've got two endorsements, right?
People who know what they're talking
[1:05:14] about,
>> right?
[1:05:15] » More than we do.
>> Yeah.
[1:05:16] » Oh, certainly.
>> That's the only reason that I would I
[1:05:19] made the motion that I normally would
just throw out the vote.
[1:05:22] » Yeah.
[1:05:29] » Yeah. I think right if the people that
we're paying to tell us
[1:05:36] » gotta trust someone right
>> you gota trust someone
[1:05:42] » he doesn't look
>> no he [laughter]
[1:05:47] » all right any else comments discussion
points
[1:05:55] » manager do you have an opinion or you
just
[1:05:58] » I think everything that needs to be said
has been said about this.
[1:06:01] » Okay.
>> I I think the the recommended motion is
[1:06:06] decent one to go with.
>> Okay. All right. Let's take a vote. All
[1:06:09] those in favor of CDM.
>> Okay. That motion passes by.
[1:06:17] » Um I'm going to follow that up by making
another motion to schedule a special
[1:06:20] town meeting for October 13th at the
request of the town.
[1:06:24] » May I have request that you move it to
the 14th? Is the 13th one? I'll amend my
[1:06:29] motion to the 14th of [clears throat]
October. I'll second that.
[1:06:34] » Those in favor.
[1:06:39] Okay. Um
>> so that will be on the special town. Uh
[1:06:44] » I'll look to bring some solutions to you
next meeting for how we paper this and
[1:06:50] then you'll have a warrant to vote on at
second meeting in September so that on
[1:06:55] October 14th we can special town meeting
to do that thing so we can have access
[1:07:01] to resources.
>> So our select board meeting is also
[1:07:04] moving to the 14th.
>> Yes. Yeah. which would have been done
[1:07:09] already as part of what your bylaw said
when a holiday falls on a Monday.
[1:07:14] » Right. Right.
>> Okay. Um no, thank you.
[1:07:21] » Thank you very much.
>> Thank you guys.
[1:07:24] » The next item is item 68 community
grant.
[1:07:29] » Thank you, sir.
>> Thank you, guys. Thank you, sir.
[1:07:32] » Thanks, Carl. Drive safe.
So, I'll just I'll summarize this
[1:07:39] and Kevin did a
comment maybe after we do the um the
[1:07:46] Here's the deal. Um this is a grant um
with this partnership with town of Alna.
[1:07:53] And what this is going to allow us to do
is have some money to trim trees um
[1:08:00] clear clear potential hazard trees or um
you know um power outages. Seems that
[1:08:08] might compromise the power lines on town
home roads. So, um, this is total of
[1:08:16] $175,000.
So, we're seeing some benefit by
[1:08:21] partnering with ALMA. I think it's about
six miles of roads in two towns that we
[1:08:28] be looking at um to spread this money
over. So, I think it comes down to
[1:08:34] um, you know, best use where priority
use probably doesn't address every
[1:08:41] single
hazard. I'm not sure, but
[1:08:45] guess we'll see. Anyway, it's a sound
like a good deal. Um,
[1:08:51] and that's basically it in a nutshell.
So, yeah, I think the um big plus
[1:08:58] advantage is um the $75,000 for town,
you know, getting basically another 12
[1:09:06] 15% buying power by
[1:09:15] Can I make a motion to support the
manager's letter for the community
[1:09:18] action grant to address electrical grid
resilience and vegetative management?
[1:09:23] » Second, but who came up with the name
leaf the lights on? I knew you did. I
[1:09:27] knew you did.
I had a couple other good ones, but the
[1:09:32] Lincoln County Regional Planning
Commission staff
[1:09:35] uh decided that this was
>> Did they
[1:09:38] » Well, they had other better ones, but um
some of them wouldn't necessarily uh win
[1:09:45] over the grant reviewers. I had uh um
[1:09:53] uh
uh branches uh branches out.
[1:09:59] Oh man, I'm sorry. I I can't recall what
it was.
[1:10:02] » I read this. Leave the lights on. Hold
vegetative management for a more
[1:10:08] resilient grid. And I probably spent two
minutes trying to find the hidden
[1:10:12] acronym [laughter]
[1:10:16] » because I was convinced you did it to
me.
[1:10:20] » No, wasn't the case.
>> I looked at it. First thing came to mind
[1:10:26] was typo.
[laughter]
[1:10:29] » Yeah,
>> I had uh I had one lots up
[1:10:35] [laughter]
>> that didn't go over well. I had m sweetm
[1:10:39] » Oh,
>> yeah. See, growner. She's a growner.
[1:10:43] » That's all I was getting from them.
>> You've been reading a lot of those
[1:10:46] legislative bulletins. She's She's been
doing a great job with making those
[1:10:50] funny fun.
>> The only way to get through them
[1:10:52] sometimes,
>> right?
[1:10:53] » Yeah.
>> Um, sorry. So, Rufus, you made the
[1:10:56] motion. Was there a second?
>> Yeah.
[1:10:58] » Sorry, Dad. Okay.
So
[1:11:02] further discussion
>> just a question of when this would be
[1:11:06] awarded when if we get it.
>> Um we know
[1:11:10] » the timeline is sometime in January we
would be award we would be awarded it.
[1:11:15] This is a long this is like a 2year
thing. First year is about communication
[1:11:21] building and understanding what we're
trying to do. Uh the second part of it
[1:11:25] is find and finding then finding um
residents who are willing to
[1:11:29] participate. We don't want to make this
a force thing. We want to make it a
[1:11:32] voluntary thing. We want to make sure we
we're working with CMP to identify the
[1:11:36] areas that go down a lot, but are low
priority for them because they affect
[1:11:40] the smallest number of residents. It's
like their priority is oh the stretch of
[1:11:45] 4,000 people got hit. We got to fix
that. Not necessarily the stretch of 10
[1:11:50] people.
>> I know that there's a stretch of about
[1:11:52] 95 residents that get hit pretty often.
and and so that that's what we want to
[1:11:58] try to those areas that get hit
frequently but are small number we want
[1:12:02] to try to address those and work with
those residents to see if they willing
[1:12:06] to participate first.
>> So I think it's about it'll end up being
[1:12:10] about three to three and a half miles of
road in Newcastle.
[1:12:14] Yeah, that's a great
>> great a great one to start.
[1:12:18] » Great one to start.
>> Was a particularly appropriate timing
[1:12:21] considering the report that came out um
analyzing how many
[1:12:26] power outages per average power outages
per customer CMP customers suffer
[1:12:33] » and it's 4 something per year.
>> Wow.
[1:12:36] » Yeah.
>> Far above the national average.
[1:12:39] » Yeah. Crazy.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:12:41] » Wow.
>> Like 4.67.
[1:12:43] We are the pine tree state.
>> Yes, we are.
[1:12:47] » Um, okay. Any other discussion? Take a
vote.
[1:12:51] » All those in favor?
>> Motion passes.
[1:12:55] Five zero. And
>> thank you all.
[1:12:59] » I look forward to your acronyms or or
I'm sorry uh funds [laughter]
[1:13:06] » uh for the marketing material.
>> Oh, okay. Literally.
[1:13:10] » Okay. Item 7A, the um FY26
third AP warrant. And this one is for
[1:13:18] $955,000
841
[1:13:22] and 75. So
>> that's a big one.
[1:13:25] » It is [clears throat] a big one. County
and the um school
[1:13:31] » and ambulance
>> numbers.
[1:13:33] » I'll move it.
>> Okay. Ben,
[1:13:37] » I'll second it. Taran seconds that
discussion.
[1:13:41] » Um
just it's of note that this is the first
[1:13:46] year that our county tax assessment has
ever broached breached half a million.
[1:13:51] » Wow.
>> I think when I started it was in the
[1:13:55] neighborhood of likeund
>> something you know like low 109.
[1:14:00] » Yeah.
>> I'm I'm curious about the vortex
[1:14:04] binoculars.
>> I saw that as well. Don't know what
[1:14:07] » what is. Is that some sort of a heat
sensing thing? What's that's
[1:14:11] » fire company?
>> Fire company.
[1:14:13] » I think there was multiples.
>> There were two.
[1:14:17] » Yeah, they're
>> What are they?
[1:14:19] » They're binoculars
>> to look at things far away. They're like
[1:14:23] » I know they got put on the
>> $500.
[1:14:27] » Couple of the trucks needed binoculars.
They're really expensive.
[1:14:31] » They have superpowers.
I always buy mine at a pawn shop for
[1:14:35] like
>> 30 bucks.
[1:14:37] » Right. Right.
>> They they're just going to fall in the
[1:14:40] water anyhow. Oh jeez.
[1:14:44] » Or not to look through scratch lens and
stuff.
[1:14:46] » You can do pretty well at pawn shops.
>> Because they stole them off the back of
[1:14:51] the fire truck.
>> Yes, [laughter] exactly.
[1:14:56] » All right. Um
but all in favor of the if you want
[1:15:04] passes by zero
I guess. So um that
[1:15:12] is uh leads us to town manager report.
So Kevin
[1:15:17] » oh of course I'm not even ready.
>> Didn't see it coming.
[1:15:22] » I did not. Apparently I'm supposed to
Well, the Dammer's got a fish ladder.
[1:15:28] » Oh, yeah. You want to talk about that
one while I pull it up?
[1:15:31] » They got their replant their plans for
2025 out.
[1:15:35] » That's right. And you have a link to
their repair plans. And they're like
[1:15:39] part of the reason it's in front of you
now is just wanting you to be aware of
[1:15:42] it. They are in the ground, I think,
next week. Um last four days of August.
[1:15:49] So,
>> yeah. So, this week and ended next week.
[1:15:53] » Generally repairing
Some of the pools, the little whatever
[1:15:59] you call it, stone that the fish go over
to get to the next pool, they need to
[1:16:03] replace most all of those eventually.
>> Yeah, the the pieces of stone make it
[1:16:09] harder for them to get up. So, it's a
nice
[1:16:12] » slab is actually the better solution.
So, they are working place.
[1:16:16] » I know the bottom bottom two pole pools
are their focus, one of their big
[1:16:20] focuses this time.
So the plan for this year is still
[1:16:25] masonry work. I know there was other
things quoted out there
[1:16:29] equipment and stuff like that, but it's
just the written.
[1:16:32] » Yeah,
>> that's still part of the conversation,
[1:16:35] but it wouldn't be a be done till next
year anyway. It's not enough time to
[1:16:38] have engineering work done and per
>> I hope to have that for you guys to
[1:16:44] discuss for next
>> for next. Yeah. Next.
[1:16:51] Sometime in the wintertime before we
have to find contractors to do the work.
[1:16:57] Another item we received. I had a
submitted a request to receive some
[1:17:01] equipment through the main broadband.
We have a coastal main regional
[1:17:07] broadband organization um that had some
funding through the state for additional
[1:17:13] um resources. Uh we received an owl uh
along not just I don't not housing a
[1:17:20] bird in the office or anything. It's a
it's a um meeting device that can look
[1:17:26] at has a camera multiple cameras can
look around 360. Uh my intent was to say
[1:17:32] how do I make sure I record some of the
committee meetings that are happening.
[1:17:36] We were using it a bunchcotta received
two copy two of those. We used it for
[1:17:41] our public works working group. It's a
pretty great little product. Has uh like
[1:17:47] eight megap eight microphones pointed so
it collects everything around the room.
[1:17:52] » No, not a megaphone. A microphone.
>> Uh
[1:17:56] » eight megapones would be fun, but
>> it would be. But um I think it'll be
[1:18:00] useful for meetings off site, other even
staff meetings we want to record. So
[1:18:07] » what's it record to right onto the
laptop?
[1:18:09] » I can record to the lap. It can record
to I can make YouTube. We have a YouTube
[1:18:14] channel. Put them to our YouTube
channel. Um, and make those accessible
[1:18:17] through our website.
>> Great.
[1:18:19] » Is that would it go to the YouTube
channel?
[1:18:24] Is it after the meeting concludes like
as a recording or is it like as as it
[1:18:29] happens live?
>> Either way, I'm I'd prefer to record it
[1:18:33] and then put it up later. Um, just given
the complexity of some of that stuff.
[1:18:38] But
>> well, the mouth ban, you know, you might
[1:18:40] want to watch. You really do.
links.
[1:18:45] » Does it automatically be?
>> No, that's why I have why I wouldn't
[1:18:48] want to record it, post it later.
>> Challenge.
[1:18:51] » I do not
>> do not need FCC bringing down my name.
[1:18:56] » All right, cool.
>> Um, so that's an exciting thing. Um, we
[1:18:58] are they do have some additional funds,
so I'm approaching uh some additional
[1:19:03] equipment for the office.
>> Uh, I'll take free equipment if I can
[1:19:08] get it.
uh housing infrastructure project. I a
[1:19:13] couple weeks ago or last month I asked
or I asked you for support for that
[1:19:17] letter of intent. Our town has been
chosen for part of that project. So
[1:19:20] great Lincoln County Regional Planning
Commission will be moving forward with
[1:19:23] their RFP process to fire an hire an
engineer, not fire one, hire an engineer
[1:19:28] um to look at some expansions of sewer
and water in part of Newcastle
[1:19:33] potentially at least the costs and and
trying to figure out how to finance it.
[1:19:38] Do they have great salt bay sanctuary
district looped into
[1:19:42] » they're involved? Yes. Yep.
And then our working group for the
[1:19:47] public works met last Thursday. Uh we
have uh another meeting coming up on
[1:19:53] September 15th. Uh we hope to have then
a more formal conversation with the full
[1:19:59] board at your following meeting. So, in
addition to setting a warrant, we also
[1:20:04] be talking about uh what we've what
we've come up with for your
[1:20:08] consideration. Uh from there, we'll do
some more public outreach efforts. But
[1:20:12] we have been recording these meetings.
The agendas, the minutes, the documents
[1:20:17] we've been creating are all available on
the website through the links on here if
[1:20:21] you're interested in starting to dig
into it a little bit, but the meat of it
[1:20:25] will come to you at that second meeting
in September. And then uh finally, the
[1:20:29] town logo art contest is still going on.
Still looking for uh additional um
[1:20:35] suggestions. We've got a couple. I'm not
going to delve into those right now, but
[1:20:38] there if anybody's interested, still the
deadline is Thursday this week.
[1:20:43] » That's what I have.
[1:20:47] Um
[1:21:03] Okay. Um,
that's all folks. So, uh, without, um,
[1:21:09] exception, uh, select work meeting and
earned at 8:22 p.m.
[1:21:16] Great. Thank you.