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I call this special meeting of the Board
of Trustees to order.

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I'll have a roll call.

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Tony Beltran Roger Mosley
Ronald Sherman John Marble Dennis Stern

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Beth Harris Mike Beeson

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We're still in public, so you can
Erica, would you lead us in the pledge?

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I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic

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Um we're going to convene to executive
session pursuant to color CRS

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24-6-402-4F

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for the purpose of discussing personal
matter personnel matters related to the

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recruitment process and qualifications
for the position of town administrator

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and to meet with the recruitment firm
SGR assisting the town in that process.

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Did you have anything to add to that or
once we get into executive session, Ken?

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No, I don't have anything to add. It
does need to be recorded. All right.

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Yeah.

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Motion to go into executive session. I
need a motion to go into executive

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session.
I move we go into executive session.

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I'll second. All in favor? I I I
>> passes.

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I have to read
It's the royal weekend.

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» [laughter]

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» Um
normally

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uh
Scott used to get us out of executive

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session. I don't have the script just
saying it was attorney-client privilege.

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» Typically, a trustee would make that
motion to go out of executive session.

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» Okay.
Um I thought we we need a motion to go

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out?
Okay.

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I
>> I move we exit executive session.

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I'll second. All in favor? I. Motion
passes.

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And that's it? So now we
>> We don't read anything else? Um I never

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have in the past. I'm not
Okay.

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Uh it's a little bit little bit
different than what

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I call to order this regular Board of
Trustees meeting for Thursday, April

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23rd, 2026. It is now 6:00 p.m.
Uh roll call.

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Jody Beltran, present. Roger Mosley.
Audrey Shirga. John Marvel. Dennis

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Stern. Beth Harris. Mike Beeson.
We also have our town attorney Kent

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Whitmer, our town clerk Erica Romero,
Grant,

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our deputy clerk, and Chief Smith, our
interim administrator present.

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Um if you'll join me in a invocation,

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um

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and
obviously the purpose of the invocation

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is to humble ourselves to
um realize that we don't have all the

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answers and that we need as much help as
we can get from every quarter.

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And so
I am looking to the divine

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for that help and therefore, heavenly
father,

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as I just said,
we confess our limitations

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and we ask you to
guide us in all of our decisions

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and considering our position,
guide us in all our position all of our

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decisions
regarding the governance of the town of

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Palmer Lake. We ask this in your name.
Amen.

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Um Matt Stefan, would you lead us in the
Pledge of Allegiance, please?

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Erica, do we have any presentations
or introductions?

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No, we We that as a place where we
get to that on the next time. All right.

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Uh next up is our consent agenda. Items
under the consent agenda may be acted

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upon by one motion.
If in the judgment of a board member

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[snorts]
a consent agenda item requires

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discussion, the item can be placed on
the regular agenda for discussion or

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action.
Uh

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the only thing on the congent consent
agenda tonight is are the minutes from

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April 9th, 2026.
Any questions or discussion about the

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minutes? I do, Mayor.
At the last board meeting, without

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declaring a recess or emergency
the mayor left his chair and walked over

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to the town attorney for lengthy,
private, secret conversation.

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No mention of the reason was needed
provided to the board, no agenda item

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reference, no tabletop document provided
to board members.

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It indicates a clear lack of
transparency, which is part of the BOT

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mission.
To foster trust through effective

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communication and transparency.
I'm concerned that this is a clear

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violation of the OML and board member
ground rules.

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Therefore, the minutes from the April
9th BOT meeting are incomplete and

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possibly missing an important section.
I have two requests.

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Town attorney provide a legal meeting
code, resolution or ordinance that gives

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the mayor and or the town attorney the
right to ignore the above.

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Two, include in public record the
conversation, the agenda item, and the

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discussion. Thank you.
Uh I'll be the first to uh

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um
respond.

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I
uh

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humbly apologize. It was not the best
interest of transparency for me to do

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that.
Um

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it was just a
question about

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uh process or procedure, but I'll let um
Mr. Whitmore fill in the blanks.

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» [snorts]
>> Yes, so uh Trustee Yurka

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uh I did address this with uh the mayor
after the meeting, and

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um
optically it was not good. It's not how

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you should um conduct things in a public
meeting.

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Um legally speaking, I don't believe it
was a violation of open meeting law. It

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was a minor procedural question. The
question involved uh whether or not the

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three candidates for planning commission
that came in late

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um had to be uh considered or not.
And my response was it's there's no

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authority one way or the other, so it's
a judgment call.

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Um but I did um admonish the mayor
afterwards that um this is something

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that should be done in a public meeting.
Um if it was more of a substantive

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question, then it probably would have
been a violation of open meeting law.

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I I guess what I said, you know,
for me it would be appropriate to call

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for a recess to confirm.
Well, that's just my opinion.

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Thank you.
>> Yeah, it and I apologize. It was my

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first meeting. Um
I was caught a little bit off guard.

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Uh in the future, I probably would
recommend that course of action.

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Does that um
Uh I want to make sure it was in the

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minutes. Okay. in your discussion. All
right. And since this was related to the

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agenda item, I
I you know, I I defer to the attorney.

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Will it be sufficient that it's in these
minutes? Yeah. Responding to those

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minutes. Yeah, I think so.
He said

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so.
I would just need the attorney's advice.

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I would just need to look to Kent
um

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because I wasn't I wasn't able to
transcribe that conversation of how I

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would appropriately document that in the
minutes.

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I think you can document it just as I
stated in this meeting. Okay.

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Thank you.
Excuse me, uh I think there are some

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audience members who are having a hard
time hearing. So, either maybe need to

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move closer to the mic or jack up the
audio.

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You can't turn it up. Okay, but all of
us I think you have to kind of

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practically stuff your face in the mic.
Or you can Can you hear me?

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All right.
So.

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Thanks.

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Um having resolved Audis's question, do
I have a motion to um

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approve the consent agenda?

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Yeah, I'll make the motion to approve
the consent agenda.

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I second. All in favor? I. I.
No opposed, so um

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consent agenda is approved.
We'll move on to the staff and

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department reports.
Uh we'll start with our interim town

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administrator and police chief, Glenn
Smith.

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Turn this on.

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So, on the police department we're
moving towards the 4th of July planning.

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So, we're starting to get ready for some
of that. And also you will notice around

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town some increased parking enforcement.
Um the weather's nice, it's getting

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warmer, and a lot of people are starting
to park in places they don't really

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shouldn't park, so
pay attention to where you park, please.

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Look to see if there's signs, use the
kiosk, because they will be out doing

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parking enforcement. Um and for admin I
have nothing today.

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Glenn, can I ask a question? Yep. What
what's your policy on people who park

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out there in front of them alleys and
hang their back bumpers over the state

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highway?
You know, and it's only a foot

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sometimes, but there's pedestrians and
uh all kinds of stuff.

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My direction to the officers has been
cuz I've seen it on the weekends when it

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gets busy,
um that if it intrudes into the roadway,

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they they need a citation.
Um and that we've talked also to um

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CDOT about some of that area because
where they're parking is not a parking

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lot. It's um it's right away.
So, it's not really a parking area

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either side of the road, it's right
away. And some of that will be solved

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eventually with the sidewalk project
downtown and some of that landscape will

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change and some of those things will
change, but I've been by there when

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things stick out in the road and had to
ask people to move them. So, yeah, there

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there's they should be enforcing them
when they stick out that far. Yeah.

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Uh
Dennis, didn't we have a idea that we're

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going to change that to parallel parking
at one point?

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Parallel parking is included in the
design that the planning commission has

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been looking at. So, we're not going to
move to that until we get to the

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downtown.
Well, there's no real way to do it at

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this point.
>> Okay. I mean, I you know, during the 4th

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of July, you'll notice that I put cones
there and occupy that area cuz I don't

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want people park there. So, we park
emergency vehicles there. Um I know it's

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been convenient for years, but if you
just park in the parking lot, it's like

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the 20-ft walk
to where you would have been parked on

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the roadway and much safer or so.
>> Right. Yeah. Okay, thanks.

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Um
under the town clerk.

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Mayor, Board of Trustees, um to quickly
highlight the memo included in your

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packet, I stand for any questions or um
pertaining to any of the information.

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Uh Planning Commission as noted was
canceled last week due to lack of

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quorum.
We'll continue to plan. We were looking

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at a special
some dates. I've I've been pulling

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availability for all of the commissions.
Unfortunately,

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we haven't come up with an alternate
date

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yet. So we'll continue to work with that
or work

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work to see if we can set a special
meeting. If not,

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work to establish a quorum for our next
regularly scheduled meeting for the

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Planning Commission.
We do still have two vacant positions

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for Planning Commission.
At this time,

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we're no longer accepting the
applications until directed by the

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Planning Commission and Board of
Trustees. The I know there was some

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questions about the last applications.
We had received some applications

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after the recommendation from the
Planning Commission. We have those

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applications ready to go to the Planning
Commission in hopes that the Planning

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Commission again will make a
recommendation to the board. At that

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time, if the board wants us to reopen or
reestablish or how they want us to do

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that moving forward, I look to you all
for direction pertaining to that.

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Any questions on that?
Just to be clear on the Planning

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Commission Commission. So for them to
move ahead with those three applicants

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that they have, they need to call a
special meeting in order to make a

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decision on those three applicants. Is
that right?

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» Not necessarily a special meeting, but
they need to go in front of the Planning

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Commission first. And right now we're
trying to schedule a meeting whether it

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be a regular meeting or a special
meeting. Thank you. You're welcome.

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Board of Adjustments also has a position
available and

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we'll work with them to get that
scheduled as well or

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we don't have any applicants right now
for Board of Adjustments.

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That is posted though. It is posted.
We're continuing to work on proposals

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for planning
uh services.

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As stated in the last meeting, uh DOLA
has provided us a list. We have received

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communication from two companies that
have submitted us submitted proposals.

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Um some are willing to service us on an
interim basis. Um

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and if we want to go for RFP
uh for full-time, we're before I get

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ahead of myself, we're trying to
evaluate those proposals um hopefully

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next week and come to the board at the
next meeting with identifying a path

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forward.

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Any questions or directions pertaining
to that? Um

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Nope. Okay.
The fee schedule is forthcoming.

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Um we have met with uh legal to work on
establishing the priority list. I know

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Kent will speak to it in his report and
the fee schedule is on that list. Um

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so
A board workshop um we're looking at a

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date in May uh to hold a board workshop
with the following items. We did secure

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May 29th for the Pikes Peak Office of
Emer- with the Pikes Peak Office of

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Emergency Management and our fire
department. Um

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they're going to provide a presentation
uh pertaining to all of the above um

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with emergency management, fire,
evacuation

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um
emergency preparedness, um evacuation

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00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:59,720
planning, hazard mitigation
um updating our EOP. And so we really

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00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:03,680
look forward to that. They will be here
um

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00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:07,280
on May 29th.
Um

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00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:12,120
some code enforcement updates. We're
continuing uh

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00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:16,439
to enforce code at Elephant Rock Trailer
Park. Again, we have been in contact

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00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,839
with some state agencies pertaining to
some issues

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00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:25,439
um at Elephant Rock. We're continuing to
work on that. Um

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00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:29,240
and move forward with
hopefully getting them compliant.

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Um
CML, we have a board member who was

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00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:37,720
interested in the CML training. I have
uh

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00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:43,400
registered that board member. And just a
reminder, if you did if you do want to

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00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:46,800
attend the CML conference in June, I
will need to know, I believe.

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00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:50,680
Um
I don't know the deadline specifically,

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00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:55,760
but I want to say it's pretty quick.
Um so, check your emails. And if not,

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00:17:53,960 --> 00:18:01,920
reach out to me and if you're interested
in attending.

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Um Lastly, I received an update. I have
been working with CIRSA, one of the

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board's um
requirements with me um

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taking on the treasurer role was to uh
get a bond of a thousand dollars per per

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00:18:14,120 --> 00:18:22,040
our code. Speaking with Jessica, our
CIRSA uh representative, she was able to

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educate me on why the why the town of
Palmer Lake um hadn't really

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00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:32,680
um enforced that. We We didn't know She
couldn't tell me how long they hadn't

227
00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:36,480
required that, but the reason they
hadn't required that bond is our current

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policy provides
um

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it already
it provides coverage for any type of um

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criminal Let me see if I have the
correct

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00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,600
um

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00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:58,840
criminal coverage. Um
You all have a memo on your tabletop

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00:18:54,520 --> 00:19:02,240
speaking specifically to that. Um
We reviewed the requirement in

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00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:05,920
coordination with the town's insurance
provider, CIRSA. Through this review, it

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00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:11,240
was determined that the current
insurance practices have evolved and the

236
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:15,560
town's existing policy includes a kind
crime coverage provision that provides

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00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:21,960
protection comparable to and broader
than an individual bond.

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00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:26,120
So, how I understood it is if I were to
get a bond as the treasurer, that bond

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would only protect me. The current
coverage we have protects me, the town,

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00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:39,120
um the town staff, any board or
commissioners. Um

241
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:43,160
in it so basically everybody.
Um the town's crime policy provides

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00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:47,080
coverage to the organization as a whole
in the event of fraudulent criminal acts

243
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:50,680
including situations involving multiple
employees. So, not just a single

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00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:55,240
employee.
Um in contrast, uh traditional bond

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00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:58,760
applies only to a single individual.
Um the town of Palmer Lake already

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00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,520
already maintains this coverage as part
of its existing insurance policy. This

247
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:06,320
approach not only provides broader
protection, but it also is more

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00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:10,600
cost-effective.
Um so at this time, the way she

249
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explained it to me and based off of her
advice,

250
00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:17,880
um it wouldn't be cost-effective for me
to get a bond. I'm already protected

251
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:24,400
under that crime policy. So, it would
save the town money with having to

252
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:28,200
um spend that money. So, um with you
know, I support Sirso's recommendation

253
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,880
and look to the board to see if they
would consider that which would require

254
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,240
us to update the code to better reflect
what our current policy and protections

255
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:39,000
are in place.
Um another pro to that, you know, in the

256
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:42,400
event
obviously when we hire a town town

257
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:45,800
administrator, it protects me, it
protects

258
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:49,880
everybody involved in finance along with
the town administrator where if we had a

259
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:53,880
thousand-dollar bond for me now and we
need one for the town administrator,

260
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:57,640
again the cost will just go up.
Um she did provide uh

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00:20:56,240 --> 00:21:01,440
a little bit more of a detailed
spreadsheet of what that coverage looks

262
00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:06,200
like in the event the board doesn't feel
that's enough coverage,

263
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:10,960
we have the option to up the coverage.
So, um she felt it was sufficient right

264
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:15,600
now based off of the size of town and
and our budget and liabilities. However,

265
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,480
I look to the board for direction moving
forward with that.

266
00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:24,800
Uh Erica, comment on that.
Uh you know, I'm interested in chapter

267
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:28,560
two and and that is in chapter two. Now,
that's just one of the five or six

268
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:32,520
things that need to get fixed in there.
I'm sure that we all agree with what

269
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,720
you've just uh proposed.
Uh

270
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:39,240
we're covered. We have no need for that.
But, unfortunately, that's also in the

271
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:44,560
CRS, I think. Isn't that Attorney
Whitmer? There's a

272
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:48,120
there's a bond requirement in the CRS.
Yep. Go ahead.

273
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,680
Yes, I believe that's correct.
>> we just need to somehow

274
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:57,080
get [clears throat] rid of that or
accept this other

275
00:21:53,480 --> 00:22:00,480
uh input as the solution to the problem.
But, it's not the only thing in chapter

276
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:05,600
two. So, trust me, when we get to that
workshop, there'll be a number of things

277
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:05,600
that we'll need to fix. Thanks.

278
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:12,280
Do we need to make a motion, by the way,
to

279
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:17,600
approve that? Yes. Yes.
Yes.

280
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:22,240
Well, I'll make a motion to approve the
coverage that we currently have

281
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:25,880
in replacement for the bond that's
required in

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00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:31,320
town code chapter two.
I'll second.

283
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:34,400
All in favor? I. I. I. No opposed.
Motion passes.

284
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,440
I All I have. I have a question for you.
Yep. Oh, sorry. Go ahead and finish your

285
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:43,320
report. I'll come back to the question.
Okay. Second, um

286
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:48,000
we had received some questions from
Trustee Harris pertaining to our

287
00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:51,800
website. Uh Christie, who is the project
one of the project managers for the

288
00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:56,720
website redesign, provided a memo
outlining some information and where

289
00:22:53,600 --> 00:23:01,440
we're at in that in that project along
with the answers to uh Trustee Harris's

290
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:05,880
question.
Questions, in the event um you have

291
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,280
further questions or clarifications,
we're

292
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:12,120
kind of just starting off in the
process, but we'll continue to provide

293
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:16,000
updates um and answer any questions as
we move forward. But we're super excited

294
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:21,480
about it. We have a great team.
Um we've already, you know, received

295
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:25,040
some content from departments um
you know, again, our our website is

296
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,160
something that has been neglected and
and our mission to be transparent and

297
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:33,160
more
um visible, I guess, to our residents.

298
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:36,240
So, we're we're excited um
and

299
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,960
that's where we're at.
Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that

300
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:39,560
update.
Um

301
00:23:39,401 --> 00:23:43,080
» [clears throat]
>> I have a question.

302
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:47,160
Um at what
is it at the next board meeting we're

303
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:53,320
going to have a swearing-in ceremony for
the town attorney with this appointment?

304
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:57,640
Is usually every It is a oath of office.
Yeah. Do you want to speak to that or do

305
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,640
you want me to?

306
00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:04,800
It was supposed to happen before I
actually start acting on your behalf, so

307
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:08,200
Eric and I did it in her office. So, I
have taken the oath.

308
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:13,160
I swore.
It's kind of traditional to do it in

309
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:16,600
I'm fine with doing it again in a
ceremonial sense, if you want. Oh,

310
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,440
that's
Yeah.

311
00:24:17,391 --> 00:24:21,240
» [snorts]
>> Yeah, and just I'm I'm glad It was a

312
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:25,280
great question. So, normally when we do
do it in front of the board,

313
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:29,120
a lot of the times it's ceremonial
because once, like he said, you know,

314
00:24:27,360 --> 00:24:32,800
when I stepped in as deputy clerk, I
took it that day in John's office and

315
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:37,760
then obviously took it in front of you,
so.

316
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:45,960
Um can you s- uh would you be able to
summarize the website project um

317
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:50,400
and where where we're going with that?
Cuz the way I read it is going to cost

318
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:55,200
us $26,000 and we're looking at a total
rebuild. Is that Is that the summary? Is

319
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:59,120
that the conclusion?
Yeah, I mean, that's what was budgeted.

320
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:03,840
This was a project that we were actually
supposed to start, I believe, last

321
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:09,400
October that we haven't, you know,
there's some compliance issues that um

322
00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:15,880
we need to meet. It encompasses pretty
much a complete redesign, relaunch of

323
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:21,360
our of our website. Um CivicPlus or
yeah, CivicPlus, who um hosts our

324
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:26,440
website, no longer supports the version
that we have. So, we really have no

325
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:31,520
choice um
it you know, they did allow us

326
00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:35,080
um they were very patient with us moving
forward because we're already we've

327
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:39,360
already exceeded their
their deadline of how long they can

328
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:43,400
continue to to keep us active and live.
So, um I think there's three left and

329
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:49,640
we're one of the three.
And uh so, when will this

330
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:54,400
uh project be completed? What's the
What's the end date that we'll have a

331
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:58,000
new website? Yeah, so I believe there's
a there's a certain timeline.

332
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,400
I think it's June.

333
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:10,560
Um
Yeah, so in the memo Oh, there it is.

334
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,560
Yeah, June 24th.

335
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:20,280
So, we've changed the date twice in the
last week. Um June of 20 So, the upgrade

336
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,440
is expected to launch in June of 2026.
Okay. Yeah.

337
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,680
We were trying we were shooting for May,
but

338
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,040
» is there will there be a lot of bugs to
work out or is it going to be pretty

339
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:34,600
much
>> No, I think ours is so outdated, we have

340
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:39,760
to manually update it and kind of rig it
to get what we need to be done. I don't

341
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:44,640
know how else to say that, but um the
new website is more user-friendly for

342
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:50,320
not only the people utilizing it, but
the people maintaining it. Um

343
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:54,160
it all the way, you know, it's just it's
a lot more simplified and and

344
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:58,040
accessible, I would say.
>> Hopefully it's it's not too many bugs

345
00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,520
that have to be worked out. Yeah, I mean
with everything there's probably going

346
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:04,720
to be bugs, but we'll be prepared to
tackle them as they come. We have a good

347
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,560
committee working on it and I feel we're
going to be able to

348
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:12,720
bring the board in the town a good
product moving forward. All right. Just

349
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:15,040
reading between the lines of the memo,
uh

350
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:20,520
that was very thoroughly responded to
firstly, so thank you for that. Um they

351
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:25,800
they they bought bought a content
management system, which basically lets

352
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:30,040
you do very simple uh updates, very
easy, very straightforward. Uh very

353
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:34,080
user-friendly.
So it'll be it'll be a lot easier and

354
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,480
also uh the
the uh accessibility standards that we

355
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:41,360
were talking about that I was asking
about, so

356
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:45,360
there's a a standard called WCAG and
this is a standard industry standard

357
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:49,720
standard for compliant or for um
accessibility.

358
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:53,080
And the US government even will set a
standard as well as of course

359
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,960
international
uh the international community.

360
00:27:55,120 --> 00:28:02,840
So this this content management system
will allow this town to remain in

361
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:07,160
compliance with the most uh the most
recently required standard for

362
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,640
accessibility. So it gets it takes away
some risk for the town for us to use

363
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,480
this system.
>> That's always good. Right.

364
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:16,680
» Yeah.
And I believe the migration there's no

365
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:22,240
cost, you know, obviously in in 2024 is
when we budgeted and paid for

366
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:25,680
the product. So there's a little bit of
it it In another branch of that also,

367
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,560
this is the part where we're going to
move to the agenda meeting management

368
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:33,640
portion, like what I develop your
meetings and your um

369
00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:38,680
agendas. Again, that's a complete
dinosaur, you know, some of the

370
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:43,200
issues and and hiccups that we have now
on the website HTML and and things like

371
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:48,440
that, it's because we're so obsolete and
behind. So we're moving um we're in

372
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:54,120
training right now on that new product,
which will tie into the website and

373
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:58,000
and all the other fun stuff. So, I think
once it all comes together, you'll

374
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:03,360
you'll really see a a good return on
your investment. Is there any aspect of

375
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:07,440
this new website that um
uh

376
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:11,920
helps or or moves towards our ability to
stream better or do [clears throat]

377
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,560
uh
you know Not at this time, completely

378
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,560
two separate.
>> Two separate Yeah. Okay.

379
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:23,000
I have a
a comment and a follow-up question on

380
00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:27,240
your report. So, first comment, thank
you and the rest of the staff uh

381
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,640
including police for the continued
efforts on

382
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,040
uh helping those properties at the
Elephant Rock uh

383
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,560
trailer park come into compliance. I
know it it can be a

384
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:42,000
uh a process to get that done. And like
you said, you've been

385
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:45,800
uh doing a lot of due diligence on
trying to find different resources to

386
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,520
help folks. So, that is very much
appreciated. I know it's uh not an easy

387
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:52,440
task.
The question I had the on the workshop

388
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,760
updates,
so [clears throat] we had talked last

389
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:02,480
time about actually having a workshop to
help schedule workshops. Are we doing

390
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:08,040
that or is this meant to Is that first
workshop listed there meant to be that?

391
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:12,720
Yeah, so the first workshop is the one
that um

392
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:16,360
once we got our attorney retained, as
mentioned in the last meeting, I think

393
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:20,600
my best advice was taking kind of a
holistic approach because a lot of the

394
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:26,040
items kind of overlapped with estab-
establishing or reviewing um board board

395
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:32,200
basics, board roles and
responsibilities, um board conduct um

396
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:36,280
the agenda requests, public comment, you
know, redesigning kind of our our

397
00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:41,000
agenda. Those kind of fall
all all in one area. I think we would

398
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:46,360
m- and again, my suggestion would be to
start there, and then we can identify um

399
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:50,920
I know Kent and I have talked of an idea
moving forward with how to accommodate

400
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:55,800
workshops and our business or our
regular meetings where I think we can be

401
00:30:53,400 --> 00:31:00,640
a little bit more cognizant of the cost
of our

402
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:04,320
attorney and his fees and
and the meetings you know just for full

403
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:08,960
transparency one of the ideas is having
two meetings a month although they're

404
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:14,360
very important the demand on on staff
and and the turnaround of of work is is

405
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:18,080
hard to keep up with I mean we can do it
but

406
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:22,920
an idea would be to maybe have a regular
business meeting a month and then

407
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:27,720
identify in the second Thursday as like
a workshop working meeting where we can

408
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:31,120
really plan and and work on
you know priorities and strategies and

409
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,480
our issues at hand and then prepare the
business items moving forward to kind of

410
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,200
move business along a little bit
quicker.

411
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:43,400
So there's a lot of ideas again that's
not some I mean you know that we have

412
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:46,200
but I think that conversation or that
again that workshop

413
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:51,640
would be where we would have the
conversation pertaining to the workshops

414
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:51,640
so Thank you.

415
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:57,640
Thank you Erica
um

416
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,640
Mr. Attorney

417
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,520
Thank you Mr. Mayor
um

418
00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:14,960
So
Erica and Chief Smith kind of

419
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:19,880
gave me an overview of how
attorney Cropp used to give his report

420
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:24,720
and so I'm going to try to
generally stay along the same outline as

421
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:29,520
what he would do and
it sounds like he would update the board

422
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:34,720
initially on any pending litigation
matters.

423
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:39,920
This past week Erica connected me with
DJ Goldfarb who is

424
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:44,840
CERSA retained counsel
that is handling

425
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,680
two of the CERSA
covered claims that the town is involved

426
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:54,600
in right now.
One claim

427
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:59,560
involves Trustee
Mosley versus the Town of Palmer Lake

428
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:02,800
and it and I as I understand it it
involves the

429
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:09,600
a question of whether or not the mayor
was properly installed.

430
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:13,440
The status according to DJ on that
case right now is that

431
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:17,120
there was a preliminary injunction
injunction hearing which was apparently

432
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:22,720
not granted
and there's been no movement on that

433
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:26,200
case since that action by the court.
The other um

434
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:31,240
case
also involves um

435
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:35,000
Trustee Mosley and
um

436
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:40,400
I hope I pronounced this correctly Roger
Miss Brod Brodzik? Okay. Versus the Town

437
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:44,240
of Palmer Lake and I understand that
that is essentially

438
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:49,160
um
some form of a fraud case

439
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:52,880
and it's been litigated
and now it's on appeal

440
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,200
and I understand it's in the briefing
stage right now so there's no decision

441
00:33:54,800 --> 00:34:01,840
on that.
So that's the update from DJ Goldfarb

442
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:04,280
on those two matters.
um

443
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:13,040
So since you guys
installed me as your town attorney

444
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:17,760
not complaining but I really haven't
taken a day off since then.

445
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:24,159
It's been crazy.
I asked

446
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:27,480
Erica to put together a spreadsheet of
all the outstanding

447
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:35,280
legal issues that are pending business.
And so that's what she's handing out to

448
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:40,760
you right now. You can see there's 33 uh
potential matters on there.

449
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:46,159
Many of these I've worked on or been
briefed on. Um many more I haven't even

450
00:34:44,399 --> 00:34:49,639
touched yet.
Uh

451
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:54,760
I asked because there's such a
a volume of matters to deal with

452
00:34:52,440 --> 00:35:00,080
that we've got to do some triage here
and figure out, you know, where where is

453
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:04,920
my efforts going to be directed?
What's what's most important? And so,

454
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:07,840
uh Chief Glenn and Erica went through
them

455
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:12,000
and over on the left-hand side, you'll
see where they put a

456
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:15,440
a one, two, or a three.
So, that's how they

457
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:19,440
they grouped them, one of course being
highest priority,

458
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:23,720
three being the lowest priority.
You can see that

459
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:27,760
about 80% of them are one.
So, I uh

460
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:32,320
you know, without um
talking about each one tonight,

461
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:36,600
I asked if Erica couldn't hand this
spreadsheet out to you folks to

462
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,720
take home with you,
give some thought to, and then in the

463
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,960
coming
meeting,

464
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:48,800
give us some direction on where do you
want us to focus your our attention. I

465
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:54,440
mean, I think they have a pretty good
idea and they're focusing me right now,

466
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:57,840
but we need input from the board as
well.

467
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:57,840
So.

468
00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:06,640
Uh Quick Sure. Absolutely. When would
you like that feedback from the board?

469
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,240
And would you like it in the context of
a public meeting?

470
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:13,520
I think it would be best.
Yeah.

471
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:17,680
There's there's no reason to have an
executive session on prioritization.

472
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:22,640
Yeah.
Versus just um making our priorities and

473
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:26,120
emailing them to
uh

474
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:31,640
Erica to pass on to you? Well, I think
it's a policy discussion, Mr. Mayor. You

475
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:35,480
know, what is giving what is given
priority here.

476
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:41,200
So, it's probably something that should
be a collective decision by this board.

477
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:44,360
Okay, understood. Yeah. If I may, Kent.
Um

478
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:47,360
Mayor, Board of Trustees, on this
spreadsheet as well, some of these

479
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:51,320
priorities, although they're identified
as a one, you know, in the in the

480
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:55,080
status, we tried to
best kind of, you know, some of them are

481
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,720
routine and when they come in, you know,
we have to get them to Kent. Some of

482
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,160
them we really don't have the
flexibility due to um dates or

483
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:08,200
requirements that we've already
exceeded. So, just understand or at

484
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:11,640
least um be willing to hear feedback
from staff of why at that time, if

485
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:16,880
you're like, why is this a number one
priority, you know, it it's not

486
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:21,400
there's probably reason behind it is how
we've determined and and it's we tried

487
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:24,520
to best describe that under the status,
but Actually, that's that actually

488
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:29,320
speaks to exactly what my next question
was going to be, which is, can I can we

489
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:32,560
get a sense for like, are some of these
are we out of compliance or something on

490
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:36,120
some of these? Like, to me, like a
regulatory or compliance thing is

491
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:39,920
usually top of the top of the list, the
top of the top.

492
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,880
» Mhm. Uh and or um
you know, uh

493
00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:46,800
it's maybe a revenue generating thing
that's pending. That to me seems like

494
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:53,600
second, but, you know, of course, the
board can So, I will say and and

495
00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:59,440
probably about 95% of the ones that are
determined one priority, there's some

496
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:06,240
type of compliance issue. I would have a
hard time probably removing any of them

497
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:11,440
um from a priority one unless Kent
legally was able to provide us some type

498
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:15,640
of extension. You know, some of them are
contracts that are already have exceeded

499
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:19,560
the due due dates.
Um

500
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,920
you know, land use issues, obviously,
those are

501
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:25,000
um
you know, they've been super patient and

502
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:29,080
we're past
again, um, ADUs, the state's already

503
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:32,840
adopted the laws there. We've got to
implement and and bring our code up to

504
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:37,600
standards,
you know, pertaining to that. So,

505
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:42,040
um, our fee schedule, we're way behind
on on state fees that have increased, so

506
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:46,120
we're losing revenue there, um, until we
get that that updated. So, yeah, um,

507
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:50,320
we've taken all that into consideration,
obviously,

508
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,680
um, when we go more in more detail with
this, well, I'd be happy to provide more

509
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:58,240
information, but just so you're aware,
we we spent some time really developing

510
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:02,640
this list and this is just the list of
ones, twos, and threes. The fours and

511
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:07,480
fives are not we don't need we didn't
feel we needed to triage them, as Kent

512
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,480
said, right now.

513
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,600
The other element I'm curious about, uh,
whether it was taken into consideration

514
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:18,360
was the
scale of the work. So, is it a,

515
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:22,800
you know, uh, in my world, we call work
like extra small to like a t-shirt size,

516
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:25,520
like extra small to extra large. And,
uh, is it an extra small that we're

517
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,840
dealing with or is it extra bunch of
extra larges, you know? That's that's

518
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:33,680
what I'm kind of curious about and how
you triage that based on the size, if at

519
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,880
all. Semantics, I get, you know, so
extra small, extra large, we,

520
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:41,760
um,
identified some as routine, um,

521
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:47,880
and that's kind of how we identified
like ongoing or routine contracts, MOUs,

522
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:51,240
yeah.
Yeah, and just to add to what Erica

523
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,880
said,
it's

524
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:57,200
uh, the focus has just been reactive so
far.

525
00:39:55,920 --> 00:40:00,000
It's been
whatever,

526
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:05,520
um, you know, is the most emergent at
the moment. Okay. And there's been a lot

527
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,520
of emergencies.

528
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:10,840
Okay, ask can we be mindful,
um,

529
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:14,880
some of these have constraints that will
expire if we don't address them

530
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:21,360
immediately and I think we'll talk more
about that later. Majority of them have.

531
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,680
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.
Okay.

532
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:28,000
Yeah, just just reminder on there's one
item

533
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:32,000
uh before you came on board where the
board

534
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:35,400
gave direction to revoke the concealed
carry gun option to carry in the town

535
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,560
hall.
That's under what? So, the way we frame

536
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:43,760
those, those are ongoing routine
resolutions based off of board direction

537
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:47,400
that local staff can kind of
do the legwork and then he'll help

538
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,200
review it and bring it back. All right.
forward. I'll I'll send an email

539
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:54,040
reminder.
Yeah.

540
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:59,200
Okay.
Um I'm going to

541
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:02,800
talk more in the business item that's in
the next agenda item about

542
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:06,400
uh what was discussed at the last
meeting with regard to the hearing that

543
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:10,120
was voted on.
Couple of items just in my general

544
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:13,520
attorney report though that I'd like to
touch on before we get there.

545
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:17,560
Uh
a couple or

546
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:22,200
several of the trustees have
reached out to me directly outside of

547
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:27,320
general meetings and
you know, I appreciate um that they want

548
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:32,440
to have access to me.
Um I've tried to communicate though and

549
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:37,440
I just want to restate it to the board
in total that that's probably not an

550
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:42,360
appropriate um
way to utilize me and the reason is that

551
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:49,600
uh
I represent the board collectively

552
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:53,720
and when one trustee reaches out to me,
that's not really the board giving

553
00:41:51,640 --> 00:42:01,000
direction. That's one trustee giving
direction and the collective board may

554
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:05,760
not agree with um me utilizing or
using that resource in that way.

555
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:11,120
That and uh
if there's a question uh by one trustee

556
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:16,080
and
it may be something that is uh

557
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:19,640
in the minds of other trustees and it
should probably be brought up at a

558
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:23,920
general meeting and discussed in the
open so that everybody is on the same

559
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:27,560
page and knows what the questions and
the answers are

560
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:30,440
to the town trip to the town attorney.
So I would just respectfully request

561
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:35,120
that
um communications [snorts] towards me be

562
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:41,120
channeled
um at public meetings like this

563
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:45,600
or through the mayor
or through the town administrator

564
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,600
through me.

565
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:51,800
Um
that's

566
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:57,400
really all I had as far as my general
report. Mr. Mayor, I can move to the

567
00:42:54,520 --> 00:43:01,000
next agenda item if you'd like.
Uh

568
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:04,720
unless there's any further questions on
your report so far and I think we have

569
00:43:03,240 --> 00:43:08,800
one. Yeah, attorney Whitner, before you
move, I have two items I'd like guidance

570
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:15,360
on.
Uh the first one is mayor pro tem.

571
00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:20,320
The CRS in title 31 says that at first
meeting the board will select and in our

572
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:23,880
code it says within 30 days the board
will select the mayor will nominate and

573
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:28,400
the board will select.
Uh we lost our mayor pro tem on the 4th

574
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:33,400
of October. That was in another week
that'll be 7 months ago.

575
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:37,720
So I would like direction or legal
advice

576
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:45,120
for the town to get on with that and
uh select or um adopt a mayor pro tem.

577
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:50,520
In the same light uh the CRS in that
same paragraph which is 31-4-303

578
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:56,360
paragraph 3
it says the board may select a clerk pro

579
00:43:53,440 --> 00:44:02,840
tem to perform the duties of the clerk.
Uh 3 weeks ago on Wednesday night we had

580
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:09,600
a a one-time uh
allowed uh grant uh supported one of our

581
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:13,840
uh meetings and which is perfectly fine.
But, we had asked, two of us had asked

582
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:18,560
for a meeting last December, and Grant
couldn't support that meeting.

583
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:26,160
So, I would just like to make it clear
that the CRS does not have any guidance

584
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:29,680
for a one-time ad hoc clerk. Now, there
may I may be wrong about that, Eric.

585
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:34,480
There may be a provision that you know
about that I don't. But, what I would

586
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:39,400
prefer is that we
move forward with a clerk pro tem so

587
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:42,960
that we've got a deputy who can actually
support the board. And

588
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:48,480
I know there's some training and
certifications required, but we had a

589
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:53,200
program established by Don Collins,
which consists of five files attached to

590
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:56,880
a an email, which I know that our clerk
has.

591
00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:01,360
And so, if we can't appoint the deputy
clerk with the right authority tonight

592
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:05,280
or in the next meeting,
I would like to understand the training

593
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:10,320
program, when we're going to get to that
point, and what your direction would be.

594
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:13,440
So, those two items, I would appreciate
uh

595
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:18,480
your input. And doesn't have to be
tonight, but I would certainly like to

596
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,480
address this by the next board meeting.

597
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:23,640
Did you want to
You can't

598
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:27,520
Either way. Okay.
Um

599
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:32,480
Well, I can I can speak to the mayor pro
tem issue cuz I've looked at the state

600
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:35,640
statutes and the town code on that
issue.

601
00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:39,680
Um I have not looked into your question
about town clerk

602
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:44,720
pro tem.
So, with respect to mayor pro tem,

603
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:48,080
um I agree with your reading of the town
code that at the first meeting of each

604
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,920
year,
uh the mayor is to

605
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:55,360
uh
choose somebody with the direction of

606
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:59,320
the board or the consent of the board.
And then, at the state statute level,

607
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:02,600
which is um
a little bit more

608
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,120
uh
uh

609
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:10,960
gives a little more more latitude for
choosing that individual.

610
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:14,600
It says that the uh town board actually
has the authority to choose a mayor pro

611
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:16,320
tem.
So,

612
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:22,160
uh
my recommendation would be that a mayor

613
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,160
pro tem be chosen.

614
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,760
And do you mean immediately or could we
do that in the next board meeting?

615
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:29,800
» You could do it at the next board
meeting. Okay. And so,

616
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:35,280
Erica, could you make sure that that
agenda item gets on the next meeting?

617
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:39,200
And with respect to the clerk, I I can
look into that by the next meeting.

618
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:44,520
» needs a little bit more look. I agree.
Okay. Cuz there's a training program,

619
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,520
obviously, that's required for that.

620
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,200
And I don't want to really speak to it
right now until I consult with Kent.

621
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:53,480
However,
um

622
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:56,920
I would like to remind the board of the
maybe

623
00:46:55,040 --> 00:47:01,080
to review the roles and responsibilities
as trustee members and

624
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:06,640
identify the administrative functions
and some functions that in person that

625
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:11,720
are pertaining to personnel um and how
those are designated and delegated um

626
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:16,560
and that's within my authority
um to do so. And and there's guidelines

627
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:21,320
that walks me through that. So, it's a
little bit of a bigger conversation. Um

628
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:25,560
and I'm happy to discuss that with Kent
and he can probably sum it up and and

629
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:30,360
word it a little bit clearer for you
all, but um I'm definitely aware of of

630
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:35,000
the process of having a deputy clerk and
what my requirements are in fulfilling

631
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:40,120
the role as a clerk um with performing
meetings. I would like the board I

632
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:43,760
respectfully uh request the board
um

633
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:46,280
to understand I make all best efforts
when

634
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:52,160
um
requirements such as special meetings uh

635
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:55,920
are requested to make sure I fulfill it
um

636
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:59,000
best I can. Um
and I really am not going to speak any

637
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:02,200
more to that.
Um,

638
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:06,200
but I will work with Kent um on better
explaining that process to the board.

639
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:15,440
Thank you.
Seeing no other questions, uh

640
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:20,320
our first business item is discussion
and possible action regarding

641
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:28,200
establishment and codification of Town
of Palmer Lake hearing procedure

642
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:34,360
pursuant to CRS 31 4-307.
Mr. Whitmer.

643
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,360
Uh, can I make a point of order?

644
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:39,960
At the last BLT meeting, a vote was
taken pursue a hearing regarding a

645
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:44,120
trustee.
And I brought to the board's attention

646
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:47,720
several serious legal concerns of mine
that I didn't feel were addressed in

647
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:51,400
written legal opinion by our town
attorney who advises on a mission stated

648
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:55,720
the following.
Well, we're having open session now, and

649
00:48:53,840 --> 00:49:01,320
so yeah, it was probably a mistake to do
an executive session on this issue

650
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:05,640
previously. That's being remedied.
Myself and two other trustees were not

651
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:09,600
privy to this executive session, have
not been provided an opportunity to

652
00:49:07,120 --> 00:49:13,280
review the video recording.
In addition, the agenda item indicated

653
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,240
directions to staff would be given,
which should have been discussed and

654
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:19,720
given board [clears throat] concurrence
after the BLT reconvened meeting in open

655
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,960
session.
So, are there

656
00:49:21,240 --> 00:49:27,400
And the attorney since then has come out
with a confidential memo that's not

657
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:33,160
available to the public yet.
However, it talks more about the process

658
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:36,720
of the hearing rather than whether or
not

659
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:40,480
the investigation was properly
authorized,

660
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:44,760
whether public funds were expended
absent a board vote, what process is

661
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,920
required when allegations involve an
elected official rather than employee,

662
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:53,320
and what disclosure process safeguards.
So, I

663
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,960
I'm kind of asking is, you know, my
fellow board members, do you really feel

664
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,960
comfortable moving forward with
discussing how the hearing's going to be

665
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:06,600
held, [clears throat]
rather than whether or not the hearing

666
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,600
or you or even at that point yet?

667
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:14,080
So, you know, my most obvious way to
make I will make

668
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:19,080
is to direct the town attorney to review
and provide written legal opinion of the

669
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:22,160
circumstances regarding this to ensure
legal compliance with statutory

670
00:50:20,720 --> 00:50:26,840
references
and to temporarily dismiss agenda item

671
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,840
number five.

672
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,040
Any discussion?

673
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:37,840
Otis, I I think these are two distinct
items.

674
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:41,520
Tonight is to talk about procedurally
codifying

675
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:45,240
a hearing
and what you're talking about, and I

676
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:48,640
agree with you, is once we get to that
point, should we proceed with the

677
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:52,440
hearing, but I don't think that's what
tonight's agenda item is about.

678
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:04,040
Anybody else?
Beth, did you have something?

679
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:06,800
Um
I kind of need more more time to think

680
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:12,160
about the things that Otis has brought
up. Uh

681
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:15,440
but uh I mean, I'm
yeah, I need I need more Understood.

682
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,800
» Yeah, I need more time to think about
that.

683
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:24,200
» So, I agree with um
Mike, Otis, and and regards to that uh

684
00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:29,760
this agenda item is not necessarily
specific to Roger, although Roger's um

685
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:34,920
issues
are the catalyst.

686
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:38,400
But, tonight's agenda item is about
anytime this might happen to any one of

687
00:51:37,240 --> 00:51:43,560
us
in the future.

688
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:49,000
So, I I agree with Mr. Beason that it
there are two distinct things.

689
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:54,080
Uh so, I think we can actually move
forward on both. That Mr. Whitmer, and

690
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:56,480
he's got something to say about this.
Uh,

691
00:51:54,960 --> 00:52:01,240
can
do as you ask in regards to creating a

692
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,760
legal opinion.
But, we can also go forward with

693
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:10,360
uh,
having this in our town policy so that

694
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:14,440
in the unfortunate event that it ever
happens to anybody in the future,

695
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,880
that we've already got a process in
place.

696
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:22,520
Mr. Whitmer.
Uh, Mr. Mayor, you said it very well.

697
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:27,360
That's what I was going to say. Is they
are really two distinct things. And but

698
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:33,240
they were uh, tonight's agenda item was
brought about by last week's or 2 weeks

699
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:38,480
ago the vote to go move forward.
Um,

700
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:44,880
so, we could uh, look into the questions
that Trustee Eureka raises, and I could

701
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:49,120
give an opinion on that. Um, I obviously
wasn't around when those things

702
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:53,760
occurred. So, it would take some
investigation. Yeah, that was my concern

703
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:58,520
cuz you were when this came up 2 weeks
ago, you were only 4 or 3 days that

704
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:02,680
and I kind of wanted to give you more
time to look into it before we move

705
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:08,600
forward.
Yeah. So, I mean, this could take two

706
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:13,800
paths. Um, and they they could both
happen simultaneously.

707
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:21,240
Um, I think it would be a good thing to
have a procedure in place for the future

708
00:53:17,240 --> 00:53:25,560
because um, it you can see what kind of
chaos and turmoil it causes when you

709
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:30,440
don't have a procedure in place.
And I could do um,

710
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:36,480
investigation and a legal opinion and
conclude that maybe the process was done

711
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:40,080
incorrectly or I could conclude that it
was done correctly.

712
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:44,760
Um, I'm not sure
I'm really the proper person. I need to

713
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:49,760
give that some thought. It may
be better suited towards an independent

714
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:54,520
third party, but
I'll give that some thought.

715
00:53:51,720 --> 00:53:59,400
Um so, I think we could go ahead with
the agenda item

716
00:53:56,080 --> 00:54:05,200
um on that basis that it's more general
in scope and not specific to Trustee

717
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:05,200
Mosley's situation.

718
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:12,120
I I defer to my fellow board members.
If they feel that way,

719
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:16,720
so be it.
Okay.

720
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:21,040
Um so, we'll do a a little bit of a roll
call, thumbs up, thumbs down, Tony. I

721
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:25,680
Excuse me, what are we voting on? We're
not voting. We're We're just giving our

722
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:30,960
opinions. About what?
>> About

723
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:37,600
proceeding with creating process for the
unfortunate situation of a of a

724
00:54:34,320 --> 00:54:41,200
trustee having a hearing and all those
issues.

725
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:43,600
Not necessarily specific to you.
>> No, I just want to know which one we

726
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:47,600
were talking about.
>> Okay.

727
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:53,000
Tony Beltran, I concur with Attorney
Whitmer's recommendation. Uh I concur.

728
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:57,600
Um same.
Yeah, I I don't see a problem if it's

729
00:54:54,920 --> 00:55:02,320
just talking about procedure. I agree.
I agree. Okay. I agree. As long as we

730
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:07,120
Yeah, the discussion and possi- possible
action. Let's not jump to making a

731
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:10,400
process until we've discussed it. That's
all.

732
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:10,400
Yeah.

733
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:18,320
Okay.
Um and if I can interject, um the way I

734
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:22,920
understand it, this is uh to codify
requires an ordinance.

735
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:27,880
And ordinances require 30 days of public
comment and stuff like that once we

736
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:30,640
establish what that ordinance would be.
So, this is not anything that's going to

737
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:36,160
happen
uh to tomorrow, you know? I mean, it's

738
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:40,600
it's going to take time. So, let's get
with it as far as I'm concerned.

739
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,600
Correct. Yeah.

740
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:47,360
So, maybe a little background for the
folks in the audience.

741
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,360
Um

742
00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:52,760
Uh
at last meeting,

743
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:59,560
uh my first meeting,
the board took a vote to have a hearing

744
00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:04,120
pursuant to state statute
to evaluate whether or not to retain

745
00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:09,400
Trustee Mosley for
um Summit Land charges that um were

746
00:56:06,840 --> 00:56:12,880
handed to him at that meeting.
Uh

747
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,720
after the meeting, um
I

748
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:20,160
looked at
uh if there was any

749
00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:25,920
uh guidance, legal guidance, for how to
conduct that hearing,

750
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:31,160
and ran into multiple brick walls.
I found a

751
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:34,560
uh person, an attorney in my firm,
uh

752
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:39,760
a litigator that has had some experience
representing a trustee in another

753
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:47,240
jurisdiction on this exact issue.
And so, I tasked him with looking into

754
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:50,600
this and analyzing it and coming up with
recommendations.

755
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:58,040
So,
you received um a memorandum that uh

756
00:56:54,920 --> 00:57:03,400
breaks this down step by step, uh what
the authority is that he found,

757
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:09,160
and what his recommendations were.
You saw in the memo um

758
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:15,200
uh that there
uh is scant history of this ever being

759
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:18,560
done in the state. It's happened like
less than a handful of times.

760
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:23,120
Uh
the one Supreme Court case is from the

761
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:29,960
1800s on this.
Uh there was a US Magistrate case in

762
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:35,000
2012 that um that Magistrate opined on
how it should be conducted.

763
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:39,000
There's been a few small jurisdictions
that have codified the procedure for how

764
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:42,440
they should
run in the if it's ever

765
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:47,609
um
to be done in their jurisdiction, but

766
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:53,160
very few have codified it.
>> [clears throat]

767
00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:55,880
» So, the conclusion of that memo is that
if you

768
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:59,560
there are
there are multiple competing interests

769
00:57:57,520 --> 00:58:03,640
that need to be addressed.
And there's multiple constitutional

770
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:09,560
considerations that need to be
addressed.

771
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:11,960
And rights protected both on the accused
or

772
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,360
the person who's
potentially losing their position with

773
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:21,000
the town
and the rights of the town to

774
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:27,480
uh prosecute that action.
So, reading the scant authority that we

775
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:32,160
have uh together along with other
general legal principles for this type

776
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:37,560
of a situation
the conclusion was that you

777
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:42,560
you need to do more than less. And what
that means is you need to have a

778
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:48,560
judicial like proceeding.
Like it like you're in uh say District

779
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:52,720
Court in El Paso County, for example.
Now, that doesn't mean

780
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:58,560
you have a judge come in, you know, you
can hire a hearing officer.

781
00:58:55,680 --> 00:59:03,800
But, it does mean that people
uh on both sides of the action need to

782
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:07,280
be represented or have the right to be
represented.

783
00:59:05,640 --> 00:59:12,280
They have the right to
uh defend themselves. Uh they have the

784
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:17,280
right to question witnesses. They have
the right to cross-examine witnesses.

785
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:24,240
You have an impartial person there to
make decisions on evidentiary issues.

786
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:26,960
It needs to be like a court hearing.
So,

787
00:59:25,480 --> 00:59:29,360
to do that,
um

788
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:35,320
you've kind of got to lay out the ground
rules. And the way you do that is by

789
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:41,680
codifying them. And so, my
recommendation is that it if you want to

790
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:45,520
still move forward with this process as
a board

791
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:50,440
to give me direction
to come up with

792
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:55,680
a codified procedure which
will be open to public scrutiny and

793
00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:59,600
comment and your
blessing

794
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:03,080
and have everybody, including Trustee
Mosley

795
01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:07,160
vote for or against it
and and put it in place.

796
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:14,920
As simple as that. Yeah.
And then once it's in place, at that

797
01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:19,720
point, then we could move forward with
scheduling the actual hearing and we

798
01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,720
would have a roadmap for how it's going
to be conducted.

799
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:29,400
Um
So, we don't have the specifics in front

800
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:35,720
of us. We have in front that that
memorandum was basically an overview

801
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:42,480
with with the pros and cons, if you
will. Yep.

802
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:48,880
» And to get a get a uh a document with
specifics we need as a board to give you

803
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:54,120
direction, which doesn't require a
motion, I believe, just direction to go

804
01:00:51,880 --> 01:01:01,600
» Correct. forward and furnish us with
that document. Right. The vote will be

805
01:00:56,960 --> 01:01:04,920
on the ordinance. Yeah. Yeah. So, um,
time wise,

806
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:09,760
is that something that we could look
forward to in the next meeting or is it

807
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:13,640
going to take longer than that or what's
your feeling on that? Um

808
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:21,840
Well, I have resources at the firm, in
particular the person that helped me

809
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:26,960
with this memo that probably has
availability. I don't know if he can get

810
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:29,840
it done by next meeting, but certainly
by the meeting after that, I would

811
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:33,040
think.
Yeah.

812
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:37,760
Um and and one other thing I'd like to
speak to um

813
01:01:35,120 --> 01:01:40,920
uh Trustee Mosley reached out to me
um

814
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:46,920
and asked about whether or not the
memorandum that I produced for you

815
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:50,640
could become a public document and
I wanted to speak to that so that

816
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:54,440
everybody's clear on that.
So, I had marked that that document was

817
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:58,880
attorney-client privileged and
confidential and

818
01:01:56,040 --> 01:02:03,360
every document that I send you from me
will be marked that way

819
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:08,600
because it's my job to preserve the
privilege for you. However,

820
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:14,160
you as a board can waive that privilege.
So, if you so desire

821
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:17,960
you hold the privilege, you can waive
it, you can make it a public document if

822
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:21,120
you like.
And I believe that that would require a

823
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,520
motion, is that correct?
>> Yes.

824
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:32,360
But, I can't do that.
And the reason I put that on there is to

825
01:02:29,640 --> 01:02:38,800
emphasize and underscore to individual
trustees, don't disseminate this because

826
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:42,680
it's a board decision to disseminate it.
Very good.

827
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:46,840
Um it is my personal opinion that
let is more

828
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:53,080
more rather than less like you suggested
that um it would be

829
01:02:50,560 --> 01:02:56,800
uh incumbent upon us to have something
in place

830
01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:02,160
uh in the event that we do move forward
with uh

831
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:07,160
the issues with Trustee Mosley and or in
the event that there is some other

832
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:11,280
unfortunate issue that we have to
address in the in the future. So, I'm a

833
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:14,520
thumbs up on
moving forward.

834
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:17,080
And we'll take
we'll take a a

835
01:03:15,760 --> 01:03:18,000
roll call
uh

836
01:03:17,680 --> 01:03:22,920
Can we
>> all Can we ask questions first? Sure.

837
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:27,400
Okay. Thank you.
Can I ask you about select parts of

838
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:32,080
this? Sure. Okay. I just didn't know if
I was free to do that. So, in this

839
01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,080
letter,

840
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:38,000
and I mean I'm just asking for
clarification because I have no legal

841
01:03:36,160 --> 01:03:42,000
training, so I don't I just want to make
sure I understand this correctly. Is it

842
01:03:40,040 --> 01:03:47,240
true that there are two
CRSs that talk about removing trustees?

843
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:52,200
It's the 31-4-307
and the 31-4-501,

844
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:56,560
which would be the recall.
So, I believe there are two

845
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,280
Yeah, that is
that's correct.

846
01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:04,760
» Okay. So, and you're advocating we go
with 31-4-307.

847
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:08,520
Um I'm not advocating one way or the
other.

848
01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:11,840
» Um I'm just I That was the direction
from the board at the last meeting. And

849
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:15,680
And that was the thing I was hoping we
could read read back that motion because

850
01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:20,840
I don't recall
the the motion as

851
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:24,160
I thought it was let's have a hearing,
not let's have a hearing to determine

852
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:28,200
removal,
because that's that's deeper in the

853
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:31,560
CRSs.
So, I don't think that that was totally

854
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:36,080
accurate that we
made a motion to remove.

855
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:41,440
I think the Just a hearing. that was
discussed was the removal statute, and

856
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:47,080
then based on that discussion
that referenced the removal statute, the

857
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:50,600
the motion was approved.
Okay.

858
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:56,320
I'll get back to that then. So, So, then
there are two statutes that

859
01:04:52,560 --> 01:05:00,640
remove a trustee. Mhm. So, um
I don't think that we've codified

860
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:04,960
31-4-501,
which is the recall.

861
01:05:02,920 --> 01:05:08,240
I looked in I looked and we hadn't
codified that.

862
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:13,160
So, I'm just trying to understand why we
would codify one but not the other.

863
01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:18,600
You know, I Trustee Beeson, I haven't
looked into the procedure for recall,

864
01:05:16,120 --> 01:05:23,360
but my guess is that's a pretty
established procedure, so you're not

865
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:26,600
guessing. Whereas with the removal
statute, there's no guidance.

866
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:30,320
» Because I think you put in here it's
very

867
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:32,280
it's not used very often at all. So,
okay.

868
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:35,080
Um
that leads into my next question. I

869
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:39,320
think you just answered it. Well, why
can't we just Why do we have to codify?

870
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:43,880
Why can't we just rely on the CRS? But
you you put it how complex it is. So,

871
01:05:41,720 --> 01:05:47,560
thank you for So, okay. So, that answers
that one.

872
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:51,440
So, do you know if
307

873
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:57,080
which is the removal
versus 501, which is the recall

874
01:05:54,680 --> 01:06:00,480
in the recall in the 501
it allows trustees

875
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:06,160
to censure
remove committee or liaison assignments,

876
01:06:03,640 --> 01:06:10,480
restrict staff contact, require
communication protocols, refer criminal

877
01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:16,800
conduct. That's in the
the 501. Do you know if the 307 allows

878
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:21,120
for the same corrective actions?
Because then it would seem like Why why

879
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,520
why do we need two if they do the same
thing?

880
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:31,120
Um
I need to find the language and

881
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:35,040
» And I can send this to Erica or to
Glennon I happen to have it open. Do

882
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:39,840
you? I can read it out.
>> read it, please?

883
01:06:36,560 --> 01:06:44,880
So, this is from page 54 of 623 of the
Colorado Revised Statutes 2025, so

884
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:50,400
hopefully I'm referencing the right one.
31-4-307 removal of officers, causes,

885
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:53,800
notice. By a majority vote of all
members of the board of trustees, the

886
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:59,400
mayor, the clerk, the treasurer, any
member of the board, or any other

887
01:06:56,360 --> 01:07:04,320
officer of the town may be removed from
office. No such removal shall be made

888
01:07:02,440 --> 01:07:08,640
without a charge in writing and an
opportunity of hearing being given

889
01:07:06,760 --> 01:07:12,320
unless the officer against whom the
charge is made has moved out of the

890
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:16,600
limits of the town.
When any officer ceases to reside within

891
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:20,880
the limits of the town, he may be
removed from removed from office

892
01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:25,800
pursuant to the section. A municipal
judge may be removed removed during his

893
01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:30,040
term of office only for cause
as set forth in section 13-10-105-2

894
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:34,360
CRS.
And on the next page there's some source

895
01:07:32,160 --> 01:07:39,800
citations. Uh do you want me to read the
source citations? No, I think No, I

896
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:43,360
think No, I think that um
confirms my suspicion without looking at

897
01:07:42,160 --> 01:07:47,520
it again.
Um it's either removal or no no removal

898
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:53,560
under that statute.
>> Thank you. Um you know, at the last

899
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:59,960
meeting what I did uh offer as options
was anything along a spectrum from do

900
01:07:56,880 --> 01:08:05,520
nothing to this removal statute. Okay.
And just for clarification of the 307

901
01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:08,880
that she just read, it's it's a it's
binary. It's either you're removed or

902
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:13,720
you're not. So, I don't see how that's
fair if

903
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:13,720
if the

904
01:08:14,360 --> 01:08:23,240
if the behavior lies in the middle where
a censure or

905
01:08:21,040 --> 01:08:27,080
restricting staff contact would would
serve the purpose. And I don't know I

906
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:34,080
don't have the evidence, so I don't know
where it is. So, for us to say binary

907
01:08:30,480 --> 01:08:38,319
you stay or you go seems
I just I don't understand how why we

908
01:08:35,759 --> 01:08:42,560
would do that. Right. And and that's the
board decision. I mean Cuz I'd like the

909
01:08:40,720 --> 01:08:46,240
full spectrum. I'd like nothing to
removal, but it seems like it crosses

910
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:50,600
307
and 501. Right. Okay. So, at at at

911
01:08:49,319 --> 01:08:54,920
present
the decision that's been made is to

912
01:08:52,560 --> 01:08:58,520
proceed with 307.
But

913
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:01,000
you're a board. Yeah, what if it You can
do

914
01:09:06,520 --> 01:09:11,640
» So, I guess my question is without
knowing the evidence of a given hearing,

915
01:09:09,759 --> 01:09:15,160
how do we know which CRS to use between
307 and 501?

916
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:20,759
And I'm just asking for clarification
cuz I really don't I don't know.

917
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:22,040
Well, I think the recall is is more of a
citizen

918
01:09:21,918 --> 01:09:24,000
» [clears throat]
>> initiative.

919
01:09:22,759 --> 01:09:26,880
» Correct.
And

920
01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:30,880
» But that gives us so much more latitude.
Well, so the recall is a citizen

921
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:35,160
initiative and maybe the distinction
here is

922
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:42,000
the the 307
remedy is a board remedy

923
01:09:38,000 --> 01:09:47,080
and the accusations right now involve
potential violations or harassment

924
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:52,880
against town employees who you are
responsible to oversee and protect. And

925
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:56,960
so, that's why that removal statute is
probably more applicable for this

926
01:09:54,360 --> 01:10:00,520
situation.
Great. Okay, thank you.

927
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:05,720
Attorney Whitman Attorney, can I ask you
a question? Yes. So, I remember we got

928
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:09,200
ready to take that vote and of course
things were a little bit in turmoil. You

929
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:14,200
were brand new.
Um

930
01:10:10,960 --> 01:10:18,560
and I think I asked you a question, what
are the options? And you said you can do

931
01:10:16,480 --> 01:10:21,760
anything. You You didn't You didn't
provide any options.

932
01:10:20,480 --> 01:10:27,680
Um
I expected that you would have said

933
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:31,040
nothing, letter of reprimand, censure,
removal, you know,

934
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:33,280
you know, give us the the normal list
and you did not do that.

935
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:37,400
So
>> I think I did. Well, I don't I Thank you

936
01:10:36,200 --> 01:10:42,200
and I would like to look at the video,
but I don't recall that.

937
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:47,920
Maybe it's irrelevant. The The The point
is is that I don't think we all agreed

938
01:10:45,360 --> 01:10:54,040
that it was a vote for either removal or
nothing. I think that the vote really

939
01:10:50,480 --> 01:10:59,240
was for a hearing sort of undefined.
And

940
01:10:56,200 --> 01:11:04,200
at least that's my recollection.
And and I would be happy to go back and

941
01:11:01,440 --> 01:11:08,880
and get a transcript of the of the
BOT and see if that's correct or not

942
01:11:06,440 --> 01:11:16,520
correct if we captured everything, but
but I I do think that it's not just uh

943
01:11:13,480 --> 01:11:19,760
dismissal or nothing.
Now, what whether you agree with that or

944
01:11:18,320 --> 01:11:22,800
not, I would like some guidance on that.
Maybe we can talk about that the next

945
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:27,360
meeting.
Well, I think if it's

946
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:31,320
I I mean your 307, those are really the
two options at the conclusion of a

947
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:35,400
hearing. Okay. It's either
yes or no.

948
01:11:33,400 --> 01:11:38,720
Okay. So, does a I'll go back and look
at the video and see if I get the same

949
01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:42,560
thing out of it. Thank you. So, does a
new ordinance

950
01:11:40,480 --> 01:11:48,880
uh of the town of Palmer Lake have to be
tied to a specific state statute or is

951
01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:54,600
do we have the latitude to
uh expand the consequences, for

952
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:56,880
instance, and make it non-binary, if you
will?

953
01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:00,440
Um

954
01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:07,000
I think I'd have to know the specifics
of what you're thinking, Mr. Mayor. Like

955
01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:10,720
» Well, I'm thinking what's been stated
that, you know,

956
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:14,480
it can be nothing
uh which you know, not removing is

957
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:18,640
nothing
or it can be anything from censure to uh

958
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:21,040
removal.
>> Yeah.

959
01:12:19,160 --> 01:12:26,840
Yeah, so a town code can be more
restrictive than a state statute.

960
01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:30,000
So, that could be part of your
um

961
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:33,080
recommended
document to us.

962
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:36,120
» Yes. And that would be like a a our
direction to you, right, to

963
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:40,960
» Yes.
uh formulate something that would give

964
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:44,280
us some options. Yes. Right. Yeah, I I
would like to just make a comment on

965
01:12:42,160 --> 01:12:48,520
that. Can I quote just one little half
of a sentence from your

966
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:55,520
privileged document?
Um if it's okay with the board.

967
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:59,560
Yeah, the the the sentence was was very
I think it was an excellent sentence. It

968
01:12:56,880 --> 01:13:04,960
said, "This procedure should be built in
a way that any trustee in the future

969
01:13:02,480 --> 01:13:09,440
would allow themselves to be subject to
it because it's fair." And I think I

970
01:13:07,520 --> 01:13:13,120
think that's the perfect sentence, but I
do think that that means it can't be

971
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:18,720
just
one or zero. It has to have a range of

972
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:23,320
outcomes. And I think that's entirely
possible. Okay. Okay.

973
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:28,000
And then Mr. Mayor, I've got two more
quick ones if I could.

974
01:13:25,960 --> 01:13:31,160
Thank you. This This helps a lot.
Um on page two,

975
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,720
this is just
um

976
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:44,120
So, it says um and I think you alluded
to this

977
01:13:42,120 --> 01:13:49,320
the decision is by a majority vote of
all members of the Board of Trustees. Do

978
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:51,560
we have to be all seven or a quorum? All
seven.

979
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:54,800
» All seven. Okay. And Yeah, it's not good
enough to just have a quorum.

980
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:58,120
» Thank you. Perfect. Okay.
And then on page

981
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:01,520
eight,
um

982
01:13:59,440 --> 01:14:05,920
would the town be required to pay for
reasonable attorney fees

983
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:08,800
for the trustee
in the future who has been accused of

984
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:12,080
wrongdoing?
And you went into that quite lengthy and

985
01:14:10,480 --> 01:14:15,520
I appreciate that.
But I don't have a good feeling that

986
01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:18,320
It'd be my recommendation that they do.
That we do pay for an attorney. Okay,

987
01:14:17,360 --> 01:14:21,000
thank you.
And then my last question Well, I have

988
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:25,040
two more.
On page 11, it says the power to

989
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:30,120
subpoena witnesses.
Can you describe that? Who subpoenas

990
01:14:27,880 --> 01:14:33,680
the witnesses? So, it needs to be a
judicial-like proceeding.

991
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:41,000
Um
I didn't land firmly on every single

992
01:14:38,080 --> 01:14:45,400
judicial-like uh procedure that I think
should go into an ordinance. Um I was

993
01:14:43,680 --> 01:14:49,520
kind of waiting to get direction from
the board whether they wanted me to

994
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:53,920
really dive into this.
And if at that point I would come up

995
01:14:52,080 --> 01:14:59,520
with what I think,
you know, based on further research

996
01:14:55,960 --> 01:15:05,880
would be an appropriate laundry list of
available litigation

997
01:15:03,200 --> 01:15:10,920
devices that are available. Okay.
And my my final question is, the

998
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:16,000
decision is subject to judicial review.
Is that you were talking about we would

999
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:20,080
hire a hearing officer or is it a judge?
>> No, that means that

1000
01:15:18,360 --> 01:15:25,360
definitely one part of the procedure
needs to be that the proceedings are

1001
01:15:22,480 --> 01:15:28,920
transcribed or recorded in some respect
so that if

1002
01:15:27,040 --> 01:15:33,680
either party doesn't like the outcome,
there's an ability to appeal. And the

1003
01:15:31,240 --> 01:15:39,080
ability to appeal would probably be to a
regular court. Okay. And could a court

1004
01:15:36,560 --> 01:15:43,840
confirm or overturn?
Yes. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr.

1005
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:43,840
Mayor. Sure.

1006
01:15:45,120 --> 01:15:53,680
Any other questions for Mr. Whitmer
before we take our

1007
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:53,680
our poll?

1008
01:15:54,040 --> 01:15:59,200
Dennis, I would just like to say I would
have no objections to opening up the

1009
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:03,680
JVAM
memoranda.

1010
01:16:01,120 --> 01:16:07,880
Maybe one caution is that is it half of
it is sort of about the process and the

1011
01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:13,200
307 stuff.
And the last four pages are specifically

1012
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:17,760
about me, which is is fine with me. But
the the problem is is that we can't

1013
01:16:15,280 --> 01:16:22,600
write a code for a specific case. The
code needs to be written for a general

1014
01:16:19,400 --> 01:16:27,480
case. And so, if we do open it up, I
would not want anybody to be confused

1015
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:31,200
that we either agree or disagree with
all of those points.

1016
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:34,880
But I'd be perfectly happy with it to be
open.

1017
01:16:32,600 --> 01:16:38,560
Okay. Well, let's address
um

1018
01:16:35,960 --> 01:16:43,960
the question on the table first and then
we'll address the question on

1019
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:49,040
uh publishing the memorandum second.
So, the question on the table is if we

1020
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:51,920
wanted to direct Mr. Whitmer to provide
us with

1021
01:16:52,160 --> 01:16:59,840
a document that
details the

1022
01:16:57,160 --> 01:17:02,720
proposed ordinance.
I think

1023
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:06,720
there should be public comment before
taking a vote.

1024
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:11,080
We're not taking a vote. We're giving
We're giving direction. So, we're not

1025
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,080
taking a vote.

1026
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:17,480
The only question I have is
that is are we going to be able to

1027
01:17:14,480 --> 01:17:22,120
provide some feedback to the town
attorney on Absolutely.

1028
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:25,440
before you finalize the document.
Absolutely.

1029
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:28,360
Yeah, I would
um

1030
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:31,360
Mr. Mayor, you said, "Well, how long's
this process going to take?"

1031
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:36,760
Um
realistically, it's going to take months

1032
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:40,760
because there's going to be a draft.
You folks will review it.

1033
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:43,640
We'll talk about it at a meeting, maybe
two meetings. You'll give me comments

1034
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:47,360
back.
It'll be revised.

1035
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:51,560
It'll take several meetings to get to a
point where you're comfortable.

1036
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:56,880
Understood. Yeah.
So, Mr. Mayor, are you talking about

1037
01:17:53,840 --> 01:18:02,640
giving direction um with the baseline
such that the full spectrum of actions

1038
01:18:00,280 --> 01:18:06,520
are available to us? Yes. Okay, thank
you.

1039
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:09,240
And your
I'm sorry.

1040
01:18:07,480 --> 01:18:15,040
The other question I had was this
pertains to trustees only.

1041
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:21,000
In my In my thoughts or my opinion, this
could apply to appointed officials as

1042
01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:23,400
well. The same process. So, the
the statute

1043
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:27,080
um
applies to

1044
01:18:25,040 --> 01:18:31,200
which I think the code
I mean, it will also be applicable to

1045
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:34,840
um
the removal of the mayor, the clerk, the

1046
01:18:33,120 --> 01:18:39,200
treasurer, any member of the board, or
any other officer of the town.

1047
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:41,320
So, it'll apply to all those folks.
Yeah.

1048
01:18:41,640 --> 01:18:47,360
I just noticed that you said trustee.
That's that's why I asked. Oh, well.

1049
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:52,200
Yeah.
That wasn't the intent.

1050
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:59,040
So, before we
give direction, [clears throat] do we

1051
01:18:56,920 --> 01:19:02,440
want to give some guidance also on the
specific things we would like to see as

1052
01:19:01,200 --> 01:19:04,400
the
the

1053
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:08,920
um
you know, options for

1054
01:19:06,640 --> 01:19:08,920
uh

1055
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:13,480
you know, options for um I don't know if
you I hate to use the word punishment,

1056
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:17,280
but
uh actions that the board could take in

1057
01:19:15,720 --> 01:19:21,960
the event a
uh

1058
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:25,240
you know, a trustee is is found in a
found to guilty of a

1059
01:19:23,640 --> 01:19:31,120
um
in a in that hearing or in a hearing. Do

1060
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:34,120
we want to provide him a list of options
that we would like to add to our

1061
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:38,400
ordinance?
So, he can draft those. I think that

1062
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:42,080
that's perfectly fine.
So, I think uh I think one of the

1063
01:19:40,320 --> 01:19:46,640
options of course was nothing, right?
Which is already in the state statute.

1064
01:19:44,080 --> 01:19:51,240
Then uh I think a letter of reprimand
seems reasonable.

1065
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:54,240
Uh and then censure.
The other thing I would like to see Can

1066
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:58,840
you um
excuse me for interrupting, but when you

1067
01:19:56,080 --> 01:20:04,760
say censure, exactly what does that do?
>> It's a formal

1068
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:07,760
at least verbal uh warning, if you will,
to the trustee

1069
01:20:06,760 --> 01:20:10,375
that
you know, they

1070
01:20:09,200 --> 01:20:11,920
don't do that again.
>> [laughter]

1071
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:15,120
» So.
I mean, it's it's kind of it's

1072
01:20:13,120 --> 01:20:18,760
relatively light, but it's it's an
option, right? So.

1073
01:20:17,240 --> 01:20:20,840
Uh we're try I mean, I think I think
what I'm hearing is people are trying to

1074
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:23,880
give ourselves We're trying to give
ourselves more options rather than

1075
01:20:22,160 --> 01:20:29,160
fewer, right? Understood.
The other thing I would like to see is

1076
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:33,880
um let's say
we issue do something, like some form of

1077
01:20:31,920 --> 01:20:36,920
reprimand or whatever the thing is the
board decides.

1078
01:20:35,240 --> 01:20:40,400
Uh and then
what happens if it happens like there's

1079
01:20:38,440 --> 01:20:45,600
a repeat offense? Like what then? Like
in in increasing like is there an

1080
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:48,800
automatic trigger to ever increasing
uh punishment or you know, something

1081
01:20:47,560 --> 01:20:54,720
like that?
Um and then of course removal is an

1082
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:54,720
option. What are other folks' thoughts?

1083
01:20:54,880 --> 01:21:01,480
Well, in in 501 it it lists it pretty
clearly censure, remove from committees,

1084
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:06,520
restrict staff contact, require
communication protocols. I think if we

1085
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:10,560
stay in line with 314501
and then add to that, maybe that's a

1086
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:15,720
good baseline.
I would agree.

1087
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:19,120
Yeah, that would make it less uh
less complicated. We could

1088
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:23,440
reuse that.
I do I still would like to see some sort

1089
01:21:22,120 --> 01:21:26,920
of like
trigger like progressive

1090
01:21:25,560 --> 01:21:29,000
you know,
uh

1091
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:35,160
I don't know how to phrase it. Like some
sort of progressive punishment or

1092
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:36,760
progressive progression of uh
You can't really do a trigger unless you

1093
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:41,640
know
>> Sorry. you know what the allegations or

1094
01:21:38,520 --> 01:21:44,760
the charges are. What? I can't hear you.
What I'm saying is you can't really

1095
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:47,320
trigger something unless you know what
the offense is.

1096
01:21:45,560 --> 01:21:50,520
» Well, Yeah, but if you find somebody
guilty of something

1097
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:54,960
Yeah.
It's not tailored toward any specific

1098
01:21:52,720 --> 01:22:00,160
» we're giving the attorney direction and
he'll have to be the one to come up with

1099
01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:05,960
the wording and the appropriate
>> ness of that particular device. So, I

1100
01:22:04,000 --> 01:22:10,600
think we don't need to get too far into
the weeds in this at the moment. We'll

1101
01:22:08,720 --> 01:22:16,120
have the opportunity We'll have the
opportunity to parse everything that he

1102
01:22:13,320 --> 01:22:16,120
brings back to us.

1103
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:22,240
Did you have something to say, Tony? No,
sir. Okay.

1104
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:25,160
Um we have
other comment.

1105
01:22:28,280 --> 01:22:32,640
Can we read the
>> read

1106
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:32,640
» Thanks, Dennis. Sorry.

1107
01:22:36,840 --> 01:22:42,520
» The Board of Trustees values public
comment on issues relevant to town

1108
01:22:40,800 --> 01:22:46,240
government. To permit the fair and
orderly expression of such comments, the

1109
01:22:44,440 --> 01:22:50,440
Board will adhere to the following rules
for public comment. Whether for an

1110
01:22:48,200 --> 01:22:55,240
agenda item or during public comment for
non-agenda items brought by the public.

1111
01:22:53,360 --> 01:22:59,360
A speaker must be recognized by the
mayor to step to the podium, sign in,

1112
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:04,960
use the microphone,
state name and um

1113
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:08,120
place of residence for the record, and
address comments solely to the Board as

1114
01:23:07,040 --> 01:23:12,600
a whole.
Each speaker is limited to 3 minutes,

1115
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:16,680
cannot pool time with another,
and each speaker may

1116
01:23:14,320 --> 01:23:20,400
only speak once per topic. Civility and
respect is required. Comments should not

1117
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:25,480
be directed to town staff, individual
Board members, or to public members.

1118
01:23:22,800 --> 01:23:29,560
Comments or disruption for from audience
members not recognized by the mayor are

1119
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:34,400
prohibited. Points already made should
not be duplicated. Only written comments

1120
01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:37,840
limited to one page will be permitted.
Public members are also invited to

1121
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:41,640
submit comments by email to be
distributed to the Board separately.

1122
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:45,320
Note that comments submitted to the
Board are public record, and please

1123
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:50,280
understand that the Board will listen
and consider public comments. However,

1124
01:23:47,640 --> 01:23:56,040
members are not required to discuss or
take action on your comment, but may

1125
01:23:52,320 --> 01:24:01,360
refer it to staff or a future and/or a
future meeting for discussion.

1126
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:06,480
Amy Hudson, Palmer Lake resident. Couple
uh co- questions. Um if this is going to

1127
01:24:03,600 --> 01:24:11,000
take several months, how much money is
that going to be? Is that going to be

1128
01:24:07,600 --> 01:24:14,240
more than the 25,000, 30,000 that a
recall takes?

1129
01:24:12,600 --> 01:24:20,520
And um
hiring a special judicial person, that's

1130
01:24:18,320 --> 01:24:23,360
going to cost money.
Each

1131
01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:28,400
the defendant, if we're providing the
defendant a lawyer, how much is that

1132
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:34,160
going to cost? And then in the meantime,
depending on your scale of of censure or

1133
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:37,520
whatever, how do you make your uh
employees feel safe

1134
01:24:36,040 --> 01:24:42,560
in the meantime?
Thank you. Good questions, and Mr.

1135
01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:47,120
Whitmer, can you Do you have any way to
address the money issues that she

1136
01:24:44,480 --> 01:24:47,120
raised?

1137
01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:57,520
Uh I don't know if I can quantify it off
the cuff, Mr. Mayor. Um

1138
01:24:55,280 --> 01:25:02,920
I have done a lot of litigation over the
years, and it's very expensive. So

1139
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:08,000
I I mean, I know that's not helpful.
Um but it it will be I mean, I can give

1140
01:25:05,440 --> 01:25:11,960
it some thought and give you a
guestimate on a range at the next

1141
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:17,400
meeting, but I don't have a number for
you right now. I believe that's the best

1142
01:25:14,400 --> 01:25:21,680
we can uh expect. So thank you, and and
I'll look forward to hearing that next

1143
01:25:19,320 --> 01:25:25,960
meeting. Or may I make a comment? Sure.
So the specifics

1144
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:30,080
are not about
We don't know the allegations. I think I

1145
01:25:27,600 --> 01:25:34,760
thought what we're doing here was making
a code for all future

1146
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:37,320
aberrations of behavior.
>> though, that

1147
01:25:36,480 --> 01:25:40,600
um
that

1148
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:44,560
this will um
very likely apply to the current

1149
01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:48,720
allegations. So
um

1150
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:53,640
I think that this is relevant
information. And yes, sir. However,

1151
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:59,120
our attorney's opinion on page four
indicates that this ordinance that we're

1152
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:06,080
talking about should be based not on any
particular removal proceeding. We can't

1153
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:09,800
talk about any Understood. I I So Do we
want a policy or not?

1154
01:26:08,200 --> 01:26:16,440
Well, I do,
but I would also be interested to know

1155
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:16,440
what kind of money it's going to cost.

1156
01:26:18,440 --> 01:26:25,400
Okay, but but bringing it into context
of a recall is not germane to this

1157
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:28,640
discussion.
Because we're not talking about a recall

1158
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:31,280
right now. We're talking about
So

1159
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:34,480
So it's apples and oranges. Do we want
to have

1160
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:38,520
Do we want to codify this?
Then we have to incur the expense at one

1161
01:26:36,160 --> 01:26:44,120
time because it's for future.
And if we're worried about recall, that

1162
01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:44,120
that's not germane. I'm sorry.

1163
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:50,800
Well, to say that we're worried about
it, I think is is um

1164
01:26:51,080 --> 01:26:56,800
is not necessarily the right term, but
you know, obviously we have a citizen

1165
01:26:54,760 --> 01:27:00,520
that's concerned about it. And I respect
that very much and we need to protect

1166
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:05,120
town staff. However, in the future, what
if an aberration

1167
01:27:02,520 --> 01:27:10,280
by one of us doesn't raise to level of
recall. It's you know, we can't look at

1168
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:13,600
every eventuality, but we can do a
blanket

1169
01:27:11,800 --> 01:27:16,840
code. And that's That's what I thought
we were doing here. Well, we are doing

1170
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:20,440
that. So,
um

1171
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:24,280
So
how would you like us to proceed?

1172
01:27:22,880 --> 01:27:28,560
» I think we're I think we should proceed
as exactly what we're doing.

1173
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:32,960
And yeah, it's going to cost money if we
want to do this, but I think it's money

1174
01:27:30,320 --> 01:27:37,400
well spent for the future. That's all. I
just I I just think that it goes against

1175
01:27:35,480 --> 01:27:41,320
» been nothing said that depending on the
cost of the money that we won't do it.

1176
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:46,120
But the the But
But the reference to a recall is

1177
01:27:43,240 --> 01:27:49,360
specific to Roger Mosley. Yeah, but
Mike, just separate the two things.

1178
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:53,520
That's what I'm trying to do.
>> Attorney Whitner said that we would do

1179
01:27:51,560 --> 01:27:57,560
the code or he was going to do the code.
Give us a

1180
01:27:54,600 --> 01:28:02,320
And that's some nominal cost.
It's the judicial proceeding against me

1181
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:06,400
that costs the ton of money, okay? And
we're not approving that right now. That

1182
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:10,440
we're setting that aside sort of until
we get this document and adopt

1183
01:28:08,531 --> 01:28:14,240
[clears throat] it. And so when we get
that, we can make a better decision. I

1184
01:28:12,200 --> 01:28:20,160
don't think we have to compare
dollars and dollars tonight. Okay?

1185
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:26,480
And I and I appreciate the attorney's
input on that. I think he's absolutely

1186
01:28:21,760 --> 01:28:30,960
right. And having a code is useful even
if it's never used. At least you've got

1187
01:28:28,680 --> 01:28:33,520
something to fill a hole that obviously
we have.

1188
01:28:36,720 --> 01:28:42,200
My turn?
Yes, ma'am. Trina Shook.

1189
01:28:45,640 --> 01:28:48,880
Good evening.
I want to focus

1190
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:53,160
» State your
uh name and address again, please.

1191
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:56,920
Trina Shook. I don't feel comfortable
stating my address for the record.

1192
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:03,040
I'm a Tri Lakes resident.
Um

1193
01:29:00,880 --> 01:29:09,280
So, good evening. Um I want to focus on
one question.

1194
01:29:04,960 --> 01:29:14,640
What is the standard being applied here?
The allegations against Trustee Roger

1195
01:29:11,760 --> 01:29:20,320
Mosley describe
a raised voice.

1196
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:25,520
Okay, so this is not uh
open for discussion. We're not talking

1197
01:29:22,120 --> 01:29:31,760
about the specific allegations to Roger
Mosley. We're talking about creating an

1198
01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:38,160
ordinance for removal of any officer or
trustee, not him specifically. I have

1199
01:29:35,160 --> 01:29:39,440
the right to make a comment on whether
or not

1200
01:29:39,280 --> 01:29:45,080
we
>> this hold a hearing

1201
01:29:42,840 --> 01:29:48,920
» this comment at the end of the meeting.
You can make the comment at the end of

1202
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:55,040
the meeting. This comment period is
specific to this business item, not

1203
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:59,200
public comment in general. It's specific
to this business item. This has to do

1204
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:03,800
with
Roger Mosley specifically.

1205
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:10,800
» Yeah, yes, it does. Your comment does.
But, this discussion is about the code

1206
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:14,760
that creates the process.
>> Well, my comment is before you vote on

1207
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:19,320
whether or not
to do a

1208
01:30:16,480 --> 01:30:20,880
trial on Mr. Mosley, I would like to
speak.

1209
01:30:19,720 --> 01:30:24,640
» that.
There is no vote for that right now or

1210
01:30:23,480 --> 01:30:27,240
tonight.
Thank you.

1211
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:53,800
Good evening. I'm Katherine Gale, chief
legal counsel for integrity matters.

1212
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:57,000
And Mr. Mayor, you did bring up that
this code would be applied to Mr.

1213
01:30:55,480 --> 01:31:01,960
Mosley, so therefore the previous
comment was valid based on the door that

1214
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:07,680
you opened. I've made I brought up the
fact that it would possibly be

1215
01:31:04,880 --> 01:31:11,840
applied to Mr. Mosley because there are
legal questions that were raised by

1216
01:31:10,960 --> 01:31:19,520
um
Trustee Yurka, and but I also made very

1217
01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:25,840
clear that this is about any trustee and
any officer in the future, not just

1218
01:31:23,360 --> 01:31:31,880
specifically about Trustee Mosley. And
the discussion right now is about this

1219
01:31:28,960 --> 01:31:36,680
ordinance, not about Trustees Mosley's
allegations and possible hearing in the

1220
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,960
future. I understand that.
>> Thank you.

1221
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:43,160
» I also find it fascinating that when I
said that we should have public comment,

1222
01:31:41,080 --> 01:31:44,600
you said no, and the next thing former
Trustee Hudson got up and made a

1223
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:48,080
comment.
>> What I said no to was that we were going

1224
01:31:46,360 --> 01:31:51,600
to have a vote. We were just getting a
consensus for direction.

1225
01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:55,840
Okay.
There are legal defects requiring the

1226
01:31:53,840 --> 01:32:01,520
termination of the current removal
process, and also the ordinance that you

1227
01:31:58,560 --> 01:32:07,120
propose to draft. Under
CRS 31-43-07,

1228
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:13,120
it only governs removal. This is a
statutory town. This is not a home rule

1229
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:18,360
town. You cannot change the parameters
of 307. My suggestion would be

1230
01:32:16,640 --> 01:32:22,480
a code of ethics
with a continuum

1231
01:32:20,040 --> 01:32:26,320
of censure, apology, whatever, and then
at the end of that say, "And should

1232
01:32:24,560 --> 01:32:32,400
these things fail,
we will resort to state law 307."

1233
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:32,400
However,

1234
01:32:32,499 --> 01:32:36,680
» [clears throat]
>> the governing statute requires a charge

1235
01:32:35,080 --> 01:32:41,520
in writing
and an opportunity for a hearing.

1236
01:32:39,600 --> 01:32:44,320
We have not seen publicly a charge in
writing,

1237
01:32:42,480 --> 01:32:47,880
nor is there a hearing.
The materials provided consist of

1238
01:32:45,840 --> 01:32:51,840
generalized summaries and conclusions,
not specific factual allegations

1239
01:32:49,920 --> 01:32:56,640
supported by evidence.
Without disclosure of the underlying

1240
01:32:53,240 --> 01:33:01,240
facts, no meaningful hearing can occur.
This is a quasi-judicial proceeding

1241
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:07,080
implicating constitutional protections
under Article 2 of the Colorado

1242
01:33:03,160 --> 01:33:10,560
Constitution, including due process.
As [clears throat] recognized in the

1243
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:14,400
town's own legal analysis, additional
procedural safeguards must be codified

1244
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:18,440
prior to proceeding,
and the statute alone is insufficient to

1245
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:23,080
ensure constitutional compliance. Those
safeguards do not currently exist. There

1246
01:33:21,480 --> 01:33:27,120
are also serious concerns regarding the
authority under which this process was

1247
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:31,560
initiated. Municipal powers must be
exercised in accordance with statutory

1248
01:33:29,080 --> 01:33:34,880
authority under Title 31. The engagement
of outside entities, including

1249
01:33:33,080 --> 01:33:40,640
employer's counsel, appears to have
occurred without clear authorization

1250
01:33:37,120 --> 01:33:45,040
from the board or a codified municipal
municipal authority, which to this date

1251
01:33:42,480 --> 01:33:49,000
doesn't exist. Actions taken without
lawful authority cannot form the basis

1252
01:33:47,360 --> 01:33:52,680
of a valid proceeding.
The integrity of the investigative

1253
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:55,720
process is also in question. Efforts
were made to provide relevant

1254
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:59,400
information to the investigation and to
request clarification regarding its

1255
01:33:57,440 --> 01:34:04,200
statutory basis. The efforts were
acknowledged but not followed,

1256
01:34:02,320 --> 01:34:07,920
raising concerns about completeness and
neutrality. These issues have been

1257
01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:12,640
previously brought up by Integrity
Matters to the board April 1st and April

1258
01:34:10,520 --> 01:34:17,280
14th, placing these concerns before the
board prior to this proceeding. Taken

1259
01:34:14,920 --> 01:34:20,920
together, lack of specific charges,
absence of codified procedures,

1260
01:34:19,120 --> 01:34:25,920
questions regarding statutory authority,
and an incomplete investigative process

1261
01:34:23,160 --> 01:34:31,120
are fundamental defects in this process.
The only lawful course is to terminate

1262
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:35,920
the current removal process.
You cannot make a law and then

1263
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:39,560
retroactively apply it.
And move forward once

1264
01:34:38,040 --> 01:34:42,920
the ordinance is codified for the town
of Palmer Lake.

1265
01:34:40,760 --> 01:34:47,000
You've all sworn an oath
to the Constitution of Colorado and to

1266
01:34:45,120 --> 01:34:52,015
the United States.
It's important to be in compliance. Due

1267
01:34:49,000 --> 01:34:54,035
process matters. Thank you.
>> [applause]

1268
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,360
» THANK YOU.

1269
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:08,640
SEEING NO OTHER

1270
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:13,200
I AM CARA MCVAY, Tri-Lakes resident.
Have one question.

1271
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:20,520
Um
does this process apply to only the

1272
01:35:16,440 --> 01:35:25,000
trustees or does it apply to um
other town staff that have

1273
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:30,520
been involved?
>> we just answered that question a minute

1274
01:35:26,720 --> 01:35:37,200
ago uh per uh Trustee
Yurkus's uh question, it applies to

1275
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:43,000
trustees, the mayor, and any town
um

1276
01:35:38,800 --> 01:35:49,800
officers, which would include um
the attorney, the administrator, and the

1277
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:53,320
clerk. And the judge. And the judge. And
the And the judge? And the treasurer,

1278
01:35:51,880 --> 01:35:56,600
but no
town employees. Okay, so not the same

1279
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,600
thing.
>> animal. Okay.

1280
01:36:00,120 --> 01:36:04,480
Karen, if you're asking a question like
the

1281
01:36:02,560 --> 01:36:09,160
uh chairman of the planning commission
as an as an example, no, they have

1282
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:13,080
protections other where other places in
the code. Okay. Thank you.

1283
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:33,360
Hello, Kathy Keeler, 605 Academy Road. I
just wanted to bring forth um on Beth's

1284
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:36,880
suggestion
of having progressive steps of

1285
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:41,680
consequences,
I think with

1286
01:36:38,440 --> 01:36:46,040
the nature of the units we have working
together here,

1287
01:36:43,200 --> 01:36:50,400
that the more defined you make these
consequences

1288
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:54,520
and stipulations, the better off we're
all going to be, so it can't be looked

1289
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:59,800
at as being subjective. If this person
does this, they get a a censure. If this

1290
01:36:57,240 --> 01:37:05,600
person does it, they get something else.
So, I think it has to be

1291
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:09,960
very defined and have very
drawn out or not doesn't have to be

1292
01:37:07,480 --> 01:37:12,760
drawn out, but very defined steps of
progression.

1293
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:15,440
Thank you.

1294
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:33,802
Seeing no other public comment, um
does the board have any further

1295
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:36,600
questions?
>> [snorts]

1296
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:41,000
» I wonder if the attorney can give an
opinion based upon the uh

1297
01:37:39,440 --> 01:37:43,480
comment from the attorney from Integrity
Matters.

1298
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:50,200
Uh
probably not at this time, Trustee

1299
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:55,880
Harris. That That was a lot to unpack.
Um but if it's the board's Well, the

1300
01:37:52,480 --> 01:38:04,760
board has already given uh Mr. Whitmer
uh direction to follow up on the

1301
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:10,120
legal issues that were raised by Trustee
Yurka. So, I don't know that there's

1302
01:38:07,320 --> 01:38:14,720
um any question here.
Uh Trustee Yurka, were the issues that

1303
01:38:12,120 --> 01:38:18,080
you raised the same as the ones that uh
the attorney just brought up? Yeah, I

1304
01:38:16,280 --> 01:38:21,000
think most of them are. They might have
some additional ones.

1305
01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:24,440
But
I I know they've sent to all the board

1306
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:31,040
members
uh an email outlining their concerns.

1307
01:38:28,680 --> 01:38:35,120
But I think the attorney probably should
have.

1308
01:38:32,200 --> 01:38:39,320
I believe that he is in in possession of
those emails.

1309
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:44,440
I am. Um I guess
to be clear, is that the direction of

1310
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:48,440
the board that simultaneously with the
creation of

1311
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:54,000
this new code section to handle
procedure and hearing, you want me to

1312
01:38:50,680 --> 01:38:58,040
look into the issues raised by
uh the speaker and Trustee Yurka? I was

1313
01:38:56,560 --> 01:39:01,840
under the impression that we had already
given you that direction, but if not

1314
01:39:00,320 --> 01:39:07,200
» Okay.
Yeah, I thought I thought we had cuz

1315
01:39:05,240 --> 01:39:09,640
There's separate There's two separate
issues. Right.

1316
01:39:08,320 --> 01:39:14,440
» Okay. Right, that's true. wanted to be
clear. The main concern I have is that

1317
01:39:12,600 --> 01:39:18,160
all the things that you brought up and
all the things that she brought up are

1318
01:39:15,960 --> 01:39:20,760
all addressed. Oh. So, I don't know if
there's like any

1319
01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:25,680
Yeah, I don't know. I don't disagree. I
I just kind of read the code and the

1320
01:39:23,360 --> 01:39:29,960
ordinances and whatnot and I Okay. do my
best guess and that's why I say in my

1321
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:34,560
opinion. Okay.
All right, then. Okay. I'm fine. I

1322
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:38,720
understand the direction. Thank you.
Can I make sure I understand it?

1323
01:39:36,720 --> 01:39:44,600
We have two things.
Go write the code. That's one thing.

1324
01:39:41,440 --> 01:39:49,360
The second thing is go investigate
whether the hearing that was voted on on

1325
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:56,120
me if was legally done
and should require more uh uh motions

1326
01:39:53,240 --> 01:40:00,640
and votes or not and and how that will
proceed after we get the code. Is that

1327
01:39:58,120 --> 01:40:00,640
correct?

1328
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:09,720
Yes, I understand that to be the
direction.

1329
01:40:13,920 --> 01:40:19,240
Uh therefore,
um

1330
01:40:16,360 --> 01:40:25,320
just to clarify, we are giving him
direction to give us a document with all

1331
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:28,480
the details of a proposed ordinance in
regards to the process

1332
01:40:27,440 --> 01:40:32,680
of
uh

1333
01:40:29,760 --> 01:40:37,440
uh hearing of whether it's the
uh member of the Board of Trustees or uh

1334
01:40:35,240 --> 01:40:40,520
any town officer. Right.
Correct. Yep, that's the first thing.

1335
01:40:39,240 --> 01:40:45,360
All right. Yep.
Mr. Mayor,

1336
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,360
can I add something? Yes.

1337
01:40:45,560 --> 01:40:50,440
While I understand and everybody
understands the need to move very

1338
01:40:48,960 --> 01:40:53,320
cautiously,
I would also

1339
01:40:52,000 --> 01:40:57,280
request
that the board, while moving cautiously,

1340
01:40:55,480 --> 01:41:01,160
move swiftly.
Okay, this has been ongoing for a while.

1341
01:41:01,680 --> 01:41:10,560
Well, I understand, but there
Excuse me, there is no public comment at

1342
01:41:07,080 --> 01:41:15,520
this point. But there are staff involved
with the issue as well as trustees.

1343
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:18,920
So, I would ask you to consider the fact
that drawing this out for an extensive

1344
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:23,680
amount of time
incurs cost and it also incurs stress on

1345
01:41:21,640 --> 01:41:27,160
town employees. And that's all I'm going
to say about that. And the other Well,

1346
01:41:25,480 --> 01:41:32,320
the other thing I will say is that this
board has a a town attorney.

1347
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,320
So,

1348
01:41:32,600 --> 01:41:38,000
we have a town attorney now.
So, those

1349
01:41:35,840 --> 01:41:42,440
folks that come to the podium who are
attorneys are not representative of the

1350
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:46,200
board. And we should pay attention to
our town attorney and leave them to

1351
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:48,680
integrity matters as that's what they
want to do.

1352
01:42:08,440 --> 01:42:13,520
I
believe that all of the board agrees

1353
01:42:11,360 --> 01:42:17,360
with you that we don't need to drag our
feet.

1354
01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:22,280
Um unfortunately
uh we are somewhat at the mercy of

1355
01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:27,040
how things
move in the legal world.

1356
01:42:25,400 --> 01:42:31,360
And so
um

1357
01:42:28,320 --> 01:42:35,040
and perhaps there is the possibility of
a special meeting once we get the

1358
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:40,840
ordinance draft [snorts] or however it
might work. So, we can address that uh

1359
01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:45,960
once we see the draft and or you know,
are informed that the draft is available

1360
01:42:43,280 --> 01:42:52,280
to us. And um
but again, that takes board consensus in

1361
01:42:49,160 --> 01:42:54,760
terms of scheduling etc.
Yes.

1362
01:43:05,840 --> 01:43:12,160
Yeah,
I don't know that it was an attack other

1363
01:43:08,400 --> 01:43:15,320
than just an opinion. So,
Mr. Mayor, Board of Trustees

1364
01:43:15,880 --> 01:43:24,000
Mr. Mayor, Board of Trustees
Um if I could just ask a question uh

1365
01:43:21,400 --> 01:43:29,560
pertaining to the document. I believe
that Trustee Mosley I think that and I

1366
01:43:27,920 --> 01:43:34,680
could be completely wrong. Last meeting
Trustee Mosley handed me a document and

1367
01:43:31,520 --> 01:43:37,600
said the board was emailed this document
that you wanted in the public record. Is

1368
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:39,600
that the same document that you were
having

1369
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:42,480
uh
Kent

1370
01:43:41,040 --> 01:43:49,280
that that you guys are discussing for
Kent to review and respond to?

1371
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:52,280
Is was it dealing with personnel?
Well, I

1372
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:55,800
No, I don't believe that that's what
we're talking about.

1373
01:43:54,160 --> 01:44:00,040
I don't think so. Cuz that's the only
document I've received from Integrity

1374
01:43:57,600 --> 01:44:03,000
Matters since the last
Oh, I I know what you're talking about.

1375
01:44:01,520 --> 01:44:05,800
The one that we thought was not entered
into the record previously.

1376
01:44:04,360 --> 01:44:10,400
» It wasn't entered into the record.
>> Yeah, that's that's what Kat was talking

1377
01:44:08,480 --> 01:44:15,560
about was the April 1st and April 14th
emails that we all received and I think

1378
01:44:13,120 --> 01:44:19,000
that I handed to you to enter in the
record. Yeah.

1379
01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:22,240
So, procedure won't allow me to I mean
that that's not something to enter into

1380
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:27,000
the record cuz we did not discuss it at
the meetings. Right? But obviously she

1381
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:33,000
has emailed you guys all individually.
Right. Um I would like Kent to give

1382
01:44:29,280 --> 01:44:39,360
advice on how what is the appropriate
way for trustees to receive information

1383
01:44:37,480 --> 01:44:43,800
uh pertaining to personnel or personnel
complaints to ensure that we are

1384
01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:48,120
handling it correctly from the
employment standpoint and then the

1385
01:44:45,440 --> 01:44:52,640
trustees standpoint moving forward
because if it becomes a public record,

1386
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:58,320
there's several things in there that are
that are personnel and I'm not HR and

1387
01:44:55,040 --> 01:45:02,160
I'm not in that area, but I'm not quite
confident on how I

1388
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:04,360
handle that. Maybe
Erica, just wait just a second.

1389
01:45:03,360 --> 01:45:07,960
» Before we entertain it.
>> That's another item.

1390
01:45:06,120 --> 01:45:13,120
We've already approved the document. Is
that correct? I believe that we've given

1391
01:45:10,440 --> 01:45:17,800
attorney Whitmer So, I don't have that
document. Excuse me. And number two,

1392
01:45:16,160 --> 01:45:24,200
we've approved
him looking into legitimacy of the vote

1393
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:27,960
we took in the hearing on me per
um

1394
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:34,360
trustee Erica's Correct. Correct. Yes.
The number three is I had made an

1395
01:45:30,120 --> 01:45:38,320
opinion that I didn't mind having the
privilege document made public.

1396
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:41,040
» And we haven't decided on that.
>> Right. That's the third thing. And then

1397
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:44,720
the fourth thing is what Erica is
talking about. They're all different

1398
01:45:42,360 --> 01:45:49,680
items. Yeah, so if I'm hearing it
correctly and is you handed me a

1399
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:53,400
document last meeting
that had concerns pertaining to

1400
01:45:51,600 --> 01:45:57,840
personnel.
Is that accurate? Okay. It sounds like

1401
01:45:56,280 --> 01:46:02,480
the rest of the board, whether they have
received that document altogether or

1402
01:46:00,600 --> 01:46:07,480
individually, have received that
document. That's my understanding, yes.

1403
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:11,200
You are now discussing that document in
a public forum

1404
01:46:09,840 --> 01:46:16,160
pertaining to personnel or giving
direction to the attorney

1405
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:20,160
to investigate that. Is that the proper
protocol when we I don't know that we've

1406
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:24,200
been discussing that. I don't think so.
I think Well, that's what Kat

1407
01:46:21,840 --> 01:46:27,760
Erica raises a good question. How do we
get that document into the record?

1408
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:31,480
That's all. That's what the question is.
And how do we appropriately accept a

1409
01:46:29,360 --> 01:46:36,120
document because there's certain things
That's a fair question. Yep. Is it And

1410
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:39,600
what's that process when it's on a topic
that

1411
01:46:38,360 --> 01:46:43,440
I mean, if I thought that was a
reasonable document and I got up to the

1412
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:46,400
podium and I read it or said, "Hey,
here's the document. The title is,

1413
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:50,040
please put it in public record." Would
that be sufficient or do I have to go

1414
01:46:48,520 --> 01:46:52,840
through the whole document in order to
get it entered?

1415
01:46:56,760 --> 01:47:01,720
It wasn't an item at the Like, I can't
just take a document and put it in the

1416
01:46:59,960 --> 01:47:05,120
record.
Yeah, I I agree.

1417
01:47:02,960 --> 01:47:05,120
» Yep.

1418
01:47:11,680 --> 01:47:19,120
I think that if um
it's presented in a public meeting

1419
01:47:16,440 --> 01:47:23,440
and offered to the board
uh to become a part of the record

1420
01:47:21,760 --> 01:47:26,880
the board can choose to accept it and
place it at the public record.

1421
01:47:33,080 --> 01:47:38,720
I'd like to make a comment I
I've been It has

1422
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:43,560
been alluding to. I've gotten
emails from citizens and

1423
01:47:41,560 --> 01:47:47,920
concerning allegations and complaints
about town staff.

1424
01:47:46,240 --> 01:47:53,000
And I was going to bring it up in doing
board reports to

1425
01:47:50,320 --> 01:47:55,680
set aside an agenda item to discuss how
do we handle these?

1426
01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:59,400
Mhm.
And we just kind of urge them to wait to

1427
01:47:58,480 --> 01:48:04,160
Please.
You know, I get it, but you know, I'm

1428
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:07,800
not the appropriate person to act on it.
And I know some of the other board

1429
01:48:05,440 --> 01:48:12,080
members have gotten them as well. So,
the question is what do we do with that?

1430
01:48:10,200 --> 01:48:17,600
Yeah.
I don't believe it's in our purview to

1431
01:48:13,920 --> 01:48:21,600
be discussing town employees and and uh
Yeah. And uh

1432
01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:26,160
Well, it's not always town employees. It
could be town officers. Well, we have to

1433
01:48:24,040 --> 01:48:29,240
separate the two. We can't We can't
include the town employees in any of our

1434
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:32,640
discussions, in my opinion.
>> been

1435
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:37,120
primarily against town officers. If the
document involves town employees

1436
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:40,480
and
then I think it needs to go to the town

1437
01:48:39,080 --> 01:48:44,480
administrator first.
>> and I do that, but if it's a town

1438
01:48:42,000 --> 01:48:47,840
officer, I've held held on to it until I
had a chance to bring it up in

1439
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:52,960
discussion tonight.
>> And if what I said previously

1440
01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:57,440
you interpret it as meaning complaints
against uh town employees,

1441
01:48:55,600 --> 01:49:00,800
that's not my intent. I I thought the
complaints would be

1442
01:48:59,440 --> 01:49:06,360
what we're talking about is complaints
against town officials. Right. Yeah.

1443
01:49:04,520 --> 01:49:10,240
Personnel is a different matter. Yeah,
not not personnel. I

1444
01:49:08,440 --> 01:49:12,720
cuz I tell town administrator it's his
responsibility.

1445
01:49:16,880 --> 01:49:24,640
Well, the third um
before we address number four of Mr.

1446
01:49:21,560 --> 01:49:26,680
Mosley's list, the third was whether to
um

1447
01:49:26,720 --> 01:49:34,400
cuz we've addressed one and two.
The third was whether to make the

1448
01:49:30,760 --> 01:49:39,920
confidential memorandum in regards to uh
his summary of the codification of the

1449
01:49:37,160 --> 01:49:44,120
process procedure
for a hearing

1450
01:49:41,720 --> 01:49:48,160
whether to make that public or not.
Is there any discussion?

1451
01:49:46,400 --> 01:49:52,120
Mr. Mayor,
I don't believe that we should release

1452
01:49:49,440 --> 01:49:57,280
page nine because it identifies
a possible

1453
01:49:54,560 --> 01:50:02,280
accuser and I don't think that's right
to put them in the public.

1454
01:49:59,160 --> 01:50:06,720
So, page nine at the bottom. Okay.
I don't believe we should release that.

1455
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:11,880
For this
the town's staff's protection.

1456
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:16,160
Understood. Thank you.
Mike, I think it's a good point.

1457
01:50:14,480 --> 01:50:20,960
I wouldn't want to shred the document. I
don't think it's that important anymore

1458
01:50:17,680 --> 01:50:23,840
because we've now separated
my case from the

1459
01:50:22,800 --> 01:50:28,760
the
code stuff and you're going to go off

1460
01:50:27,040 --> 01:50:33,560
and do that and so we probably don't
even need to refer to that privileged

1461
01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:38,320
document now because it's a
it's it's multi

1462
01:50:35,200 --> 01:50:42,880
faceted. It's not just on the code, so.
I would agree with you. Yeah, probably

1463
01:50:40,120 --> 01:50:45,840
okay not to release it. All right.
Any other discussion?

1464
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:52,080
I said I agree with him that it's not
that it doesn't need to be released.

1465
01:50:57,120 --> 01:51:04,360
I guess at what point do you
whatever you ordinance working on

1466
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:08,800
working on be released to the public
prior to it being official ordinance for

1467
01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:12,280
hearing?
So, there's a procedure for adoption of

1468
01:51:10,720 --> 01:51:16,120
ordinances and they need to be
published.

1469
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:20,240
Okay, and everything that But that's the
final product. Everything that he's

1470
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:25,160
going to suggest has been covered in
general in this memorandum. So, it will

1471
01:51:23,240 --> 01:51:29,960
be made public
and effect at that point in time. I'm

1472
01:51:27,560 --> 01:51:35,160
just wondering about are you going to
are they public going to have

1473
01:51:31,120 --> 01:51:40,960
opportunity comment on the proposed
final product of the ordinance or not?

1474
01:51:38,560 --> 01:51:46,800
Is is my question. Yes, prior to
adoption it'll be part of the agenda and

1475
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:49,880
packet. Okay. Yeah, I think it has to be
made available to the public for 30 days

1476
01:51:48,400 --> 01:51:54,360
anyway.
Well, that's I think So, like I think 30

1477
01:51:52,000 --> 01:51:59,120
days after we approve it and then
No. No, it's like 30 days before we can

1478
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:59,120
approve it, right?

1479
01:51:59,560 --> 01:52:05,240
After. Oh, my bad.
Okay. So, I mean I think you have a good

1480
01:52:03,360 --> 01:52:09,800
question, which is, you know, how much
time will we have to review it? You like

1481
01:52:07,120 --> 01:52:14,520
the drafts and I mean we can always if
you if we get a draft and the board

1482
01:52:12,920 --> 01:52:17,280
says, "Oh,
this isn't quite what we want." And you

1483
01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:21,440
can always tweak it and then send it
back for revision and until we get what

1484
01:52:19,280 --> 01:52:26,640
we want. That's that's the public. I
don't think that the public is

1485
01:52:23,640 --> 01:52:30,200
pretty interested in this. Yeah.
I don't disagree with you. So, is your

1486
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:34,480
question then
does the public have

1487
01:52:32,640 --> 01:52:38,000
opportunity to remark on the draft?
before it becomes

1488
01:52:36,160 --> 01:52:41,680
final. So, your question is does the
opportunity does the public have an

1489
01:52:39,360 --> 01:52:44,920
opportunity to remark on the draft? Yes.
Okay.

1490
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:49,720
And we just told by the attorney that
yes, they do.

1491
01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:55,040
Yes. Is that correct? Yes.
So, could we can we redact

1492
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:58,000
the references to the
the alleged There won't be any

1493
01:52:55,880 --> 01:53:01,680
references in there
If So, we're not going to for the

1494
01:52:59,480 --> 01:53:05,040
ordinance. Okay. And we're not going to
release this. No. Okay.

1495
01:53:07,680 --> 01:53:14,160
So, that's number three.
>> Three and uh uh

1496
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:18,560
And then number four in regards to the
email or memo or document about

1497
01:53:16,640 --> 01:53:22,000
personnel, I
I don't believe that if it has to do

1498
01:53:20,680 --> 01:53:25,320
with personnel, that it should be
>> I I've got a few but I I passed them on

1499
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:30,240
to
uh Mr. Blunt. We're concerned about town

1500
01:53:27,760 --> 01:53:33,920
officials. Okay. Uh and I wanted to
bring it up at the board reports that we

1501
01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:37,800
need to have a discussion on how to
handle those.

1502
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:41,680
Which I think is kind of a moot point
because

1503
01:53:38,880 --> 01:53:42,840
this ordinance will cover that.
Correct.

1504
01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:47,960
» Okay.
So, if it's a moot point, then we can

1505
01:53:45,280 --> 01:53:47,960
move on.

1506
01:53:48,560 --> 01:53:53,720
Correct?
Correct.

1507
01:53:52,280 --> 01:53:55,600
Business item
um

1508
01:53:54,560 --> 01:53:59,520
number six.
>> Just staff direction. No. Okay.

1509
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:06,520
Business item number six, ordinance
number 02-2026

1510
01:54:04,120 --> 01:54:11,400
prohibiting use of graywater and
installation of graywater systems.

1511
01:54:09,680 --> 01:54:15,400
Um
do we need to

1512
01:54:13,440 --> 01:54:19,880
uh give any background in regards to
this or is it is the floor belong to

1513
01:54:18,000 --> 01:54:23,760
Chaz?
All right. And Chaz can come up. You can

1514
01:54:22,080 --> 01:54:27,720
either come up to the podium, Chaz, or
over whatever is easiest.

1515
01:54:31,840 --> 01:54:39,040
And I just want to before Chaz gets
going, um

1516
01:54:36,520 --> 01:54:43,160
Chaz is going to speak on on graywater
and he has another item that he just

1517
01:54:40,960 --> 01:54:46,760
wants to speak on that that is related
to water as well. Okay.

1518
01:54:44,680 --> 01:54:51,120
» If the board would allow. Um and he'll
get to that at the end. I don't have

1519
01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:54,520
much in the in the way of graywater
outside of what I covered in the last

1520
01:54:53,240 --> 01:54:58,640
meeting.
Would you like me to go over that again

1521
01:54:56,240 --> 01:55:02,880
or Yeah, Chaz, I have I have I'm sorry,
go ahead. Briefly, I think so. Yeah,

1522
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:06,520
just one comment. In the paragraph that
ends with is prohibited, you know, where

1523
01:55:05,280 --> 01:55:11,920
it says
new construction blah blah blah is

1524
01:55:08,240 --> 01:55:17,000
prohibited. It's not real clear that a
new residence on a well would be able to

1525
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:20,160
do gray water. I mean, that implies it,
but I don't think so. I don't think it's

1526
01:55:18,600 --> 01:55:23,560
stated
as clearly as

1527
01:55:22,280 --> 01:55:27,760
» I mean, I got the gist cuz I know what
you're talking about, but I I just would

1528
01:55:25,200 --> 01:55:32,960
like to have that slightly better to say
that if that new house is on a well,

1529
01:55:30,440 --> 01:55:37,320
then they you can opt in to the gray
water system.

1530
01:55:34,520 --> 01:55:39,480
Okay. Um I don't think I have the right
um

1531
01:55:38,240 --> 01:55:44,000
paper here
or the right memo.

1532
01:55:41,680 --> 01:55:47,800
But I thought we put in a uh
wording

1533
01:55:45,120 --> 01:55:52,120
uh that was very specific to Palmer Lake
water, public water systems was. It's

1534
01:55:49,960 --> 01:55:55,080
just that the the wording is sort of
like a double negative, and so I would

1535
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:57,600
like it to be more clear. I'll get you
the later.

1536
01:55:55,640 --> 01:56:01,080
» Okay. Okay. But with that one caveat,
you you did good. Okay.

1537
01:56:05,000 --> 01:56:13,040
Trustee Mosley, I I helped with this. I
I drafted this ordinance, and so we

1538
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:17,880
uh
tweaked it so that a person on a well

1539
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:19,280
would not be encumbered by this
ordinance.

1540
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:23,840
» Right.
And the language that I put in there was

1541
01:56:22,240 --> 01:56:29,440
that uh
basically um it pertains to

1542
01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:33,760
uh any system that has the potential for
intermingling with the public water

1543
01:56:31,200 --> 01:56:36,440
system, and a well can't intermingle
with a public water system.

1544
01:56:35,280 --> 01:56:42,360
» Right. And that's as soon as it ends
with is prohibited, right? Right. Yeah.

1545
01:56:39,960 --> 01:56:46,040
Yeah, the the previous part of that
I would like it to say, but if you're on

1546
01:56:44,160 --> 01:56:51,910
a well, just clearly, if you're on a
well, this doesn't apply. That's all.

1547
01:56:49,890 --> 01:56:51,910
» [snorts]

1548
01:56:57,760 --> 01:57:04,080
» No question? I've got nothing further as
far as gray water is concerned.

1549
01:57:02,120 --> 01:57:11,480
Okay, so this is going to require a
vote.

1550
01:57:05,200 --> 01:57:11,480
So, let me read this proposed ordinance.

1551
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:15,240
You may.

1552
01:57:21,640 --> 01:57:27,320
Matt Steffin Circle Drive.
Um

1553
01:57:31,640 --> 01:57:38,280
The way that most of the permits for
wells in the town are written,

1554
01:57:37,080 --> 01:57:43,280
um
if the town expands its water district

1555
01:57:40,960 --> 01:57:48,320
to within a certain distance of an
existing well, they are required to cap

1556
01:57:45,680 --> 01:57:53,960
their well and join
the water district of the town.

1557
01:57:51,240 --> 01:58:00,920
So, how do we address somebody who is on
a gray water system from on a well

1558
01:57:57,560 --> 01:58:04,560
and then is required
upon expansion of the town's water

1559
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:07,760
system
to become part of it?

1560
01:58:08,200 --> 01:58:15,320
If they're exempted and allowed to build
a gray water system.

1561
01:58:13,080 --> 01:58:17,480
Hm. Thought it's worth discussion.
>> Thank you.

1562
01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:20,936
» Can you state how many times this has
happened in the past?

1563
01:58:19,280 --> 01:58:24,440
I'm just teasing.
>> [laughter]

1564
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:30,360
» No, there are no past examples.
Just thought it was worth mentioning. It

1565
01:58:26,280 --> 01:58:35,680
seems like a valid point, Mr. Whitman.
Yeah, was not aware of that.

1566
01:58:32,720 --> 01:58:40,520
Probably need to address it. All right.
Um we'd need direction on how to address

1567
01:58:38,000 --> 01:58:40,520
it, though.

1568
01:58:44,360 --> 01:58:50,160
Yeah, Attorney Whitman, part of that
problem is the investment a homeowner

1569
01:58:47,640 --> 01:58:54,520
might wait might make in a system like
that and then to be directed to cap it

1570
01:58:52,560 --> 01:58:57,920
or something, uh that's an issue that
ought to be

1571
01:58:56,040 --> 01:59:02,120
uh covered. And you know, right now I
think our well permits, as well as our

1572
01:59:00,000 --> 01:59:06,560
taps, are about $20,000.
And so, it's probably something in the

1573
01:59:03,920 --> 01:59:09,000
range of double that.
I don't know.

1574
01:59:09,840 --> 01:59:17,920
Well, my my initial opinion is that it
would behoove us to

1575
01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:23,400
um prohibit it altogether with that
being possible.

1576
01:59:20,360 --> 01:59:27,800
So, that we don't uh
so that we don't force a consumer to

1577
01:59:25,520 --> 01:59:33,120
spend money that we're going to then
therefore force him to unspend it

1578
01:59:30,800 --> 01:59:37,960
at great expense. So,
anyway, that's just

1579
01:59:35,120 --> 01:59:37,960
first impression.

1580
01:59:38,800 --> 01:59:45,400
Marty?
Martha Brotzik, 551 Highway 105. Just a

1581
01:59:42,320 --> 01:59:49,240
word of caution. Just like STRs and
before they were legal and people had

1582
01:59:47,880 --> 01:59:54,760
them,
talked to PPD

1583
01:59:51,440 --> 01:59:58,600
in 2010
about gray water.

1584
01:59:56,680 --> 02:00:00,400
And they said, "Ooh, please don't do
that."

1585
01:59:59,843 --> 02:00:05,480
» [clears throat]
>> I said, "Show me the code."

1586
02:00:03,160 --> 02:00:10,040
"We don't have code."
It's been what, 15 years?

1587
02:00:08,000 --> 02:00:14,440
There are people out there that have
gray water systems. I'm just cautioning,

1588
02:00:12,800 --> 02:00:18,440
okay? It's just
there's nothing that says you can't do

1589
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:22,800
it. So,
that's another twist to the problem.

1590
02:00:20,360 --> 02:00:22,800
Thank you.

1591
02:00:30,200 --> 02:00:37,440
Didn't this come about by some sort of a
state statute that gives us the right to

1592
02:00:35,360 --> 02:00:40,360
opt in or opt out of a gray water
>> Yes.

1593
02:00:37,640 --> 02:00:44,480
» Yes. situation? Yep. So, there is
something out there.

1594
02:00:42,040 --> 02:00:44,480
Well,

1595
02:00:46,080 --> 02:00:52,960
Well, but it only came in January.
>> require us It doesn't require us I

1596
02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:58,400
understand. All I'm trying to do is make
a point just like Mr. Steffin did that

1597
02:00:55,360 --> 02:01:01,400
there are idiosyncrasies with this that
nuances that you kind of have to pay

1598
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:08,560
attention to.
I'm talking to the county policy that's

1599
02:01:05,000 --> 02:01:09,920
over 15 years old. The state statute is
much more recent.

1600
02:01:09,600 --> 02:01:14,560
» I understand.
>> And and it's not all or not It's either

1601
02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:19,880
you opt in or opt out. I'm just saying
there's a lot of scenarios you got to

1602
02:01:17,120 --> 02:01:19,880
think about.

1603
02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:28,480
Mr. Mayor, Board of Trustees, I believe
there in our code there is something

1604
02:01:24,600 --> 02:01:33,840
speaking specifically to um
the water system, not a water district,

1605
02:01:31,040 --> 02:01:38,840
and also the sewer, but I don't have it
up in front of me, but um

1606
02:01:37,000 --> 02:01:42,640
in our research there at that time there
there was something. And I don't know if

1607
02:01:40,720 --> 02:01:46,240
it's in the new code. I can't even think
under Well, it sounds to me like we

1608
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:51,960
don't necessarily have enough
information to go forward on voting on

1609
02:01:49,040 --> 02:01:59,680
this ordinance until we get some more
research done. So, I would move to

1610
02:01:56,000 --> 02:02:03,800
table this until that is done or next
meeting or something of that sort. I'll

1611
02:02:01,560 --> 02:02:06,880
second.
I think

1612
02:02:04,840 --> 02:02:10,480
Sorry. Just a point of clarification. I
think it's a a continuation, not a

1613
02:02:08,680 --> 02:02:13,400
tabling. Is that correct? I believe
you're right. Sorry.

1614
02:02:12,809 --> 02:02:18,400
» [laughter]
>> Can I make one comment? Yeah, for Chaz,

1615
02:02:16,760 --> 02:02:24,040
can we confirm that
Palmer Lake Sanitation District has

1616
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:24,040
banned gray water?

1617
02:02:24,600 --> 02:02:31,680
I'm sorry, I can't hear you. Talking
about Palmer Lake Sanitation. They're

1618
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:34,840
still involved in gray water. They are.
Have they

1619
02:02:32,920 --> 02:02:39,840
Do we have confirmation they banned gray
water?

1620
02:02:36,800 --> 02:02:44,640
Um not from Becky. I've talked to Jeff
and he said Becky said it was banned.

1621
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:49,000
But regardless of their stance, I would
still like to opt out of greywater.

1622
02:02:46,760 --> 02:02:54,240
Um
So, I could go through my reasons.

1623
02:02:51,440 --> 02:02:58,560
I again, if you want me to. I
I don't disagree with your reasons. I

1624
02:02:56,760 --> 02:03:02,520
I agree with your reasons.
My only concern is

1625
02:03:00,160 --> 02:03:06,480
greywater affects not only the water,
but also sanitation.

1626
02:03:04,840 --> 02:03:10,080
And
if

1627
02:03:07,480 --> 02:03:15,240
I I looked at the Homolka sanitation
meetings, but I didn't see where they

1628
02:03:12,320 --> 02:03:19,760
passed a motion banning greywater usage.
Okay. So, that's one of my concerns is

1629
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:22,800
we need to be in
in a kind of in sync.

1630
02:03:21,520 --> 02:03:28,720
You know, if we're going not going to do
it, they shouldn't do it either.

1631
02:03:25,280 --> 02:03:28,720
I agree. I agree.

1632
02:03:30,520 --> 02:03:36,360
And for
the citizens that aren't familiar with

1633
02:03:33,800 --> 02:03:41,360
this, I wasn't any familiar with
greywater at all except for my camping

1634
02:03:38,440 --> 02:03:44,520
and going on the Colorado trip, but
in the past week I've done a lot of

1635
02:03:42,880 --> 02:03:49,240
research. You certainly helped enlighten
us, Chad. I think the key reasons to opt

1636
02:03:47,240 --> 02:03:52,640
out you pointed really well. If anyone
else didn't see it, I think the

1637
02:03:51,120 --> 02:04:00,040
increased cost to the town, the
increased regulation, just a a litany of

1638
02:03:55,920 --> 02:04:04,680
things that would arise if we opted in.
So, I concur so far with what we've

1639
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:10,480
learned that opting out would be in the
best interest of the town both

1640
02:04:06,040 --> 02:04:10,480
financially and otherwise. Thank you.

1641
02:04:11,920 --> 02:04:17,520
Um
I think it is actually the consensus of

1642
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:20,680
the board to opt out in terms of our
water system, but the question on the

1643
02:04:19,520 --> 02:04:25,760
table
seems to be about those that have wells.

1644
02:04:24,120 --> 02:04:29,160
Yeah, I think the two the two questions
I heard,

1645
02:04:26,920 --> 02:04:32,760
uh if I may paraphrase them.
So, couple of questions. What happens

1646
02:04:30,800 --> 02:04:37,000
when people have to join the town water
system who have existing greywater

1647
02:04:34,600 --> 02:04:41,040
systems who are on wells today? And then
the other question was what happens if

1648
02:04:39,040 --> 02:04:46,840
they already have a greywater system and
we decide to opt out? Right? So like do

1649
02:04:44,520 --> 02:04:50,960
they then have to terminate their
greywater system or they you know what

1650
02:04:48,800 --> 02:04:55,400
what is the what is the direction for
dealing with that situation?

1651
02:04:53,240 --> 02:04:59,360
Do you know if there's anyone on the
town water system that has a greywater

1652
02:04:57,360 --> 02:05:02,120
system?
Not that I'm aware of.

1653
02:05:00,840 --> 02:05:05,880
Yeah, but I think that was pertaining to
wells also that latter point. Both

1654
02:05:04,080 --> 02:05:10,680
points were pertaining to people who had
wells and greywater systems alongside

1655
02:05:08,400 --> 02:05:16,040
their wells. Yeah.
Susan Minor

1656
02:05:12,520 --> 02:05:21,080
um Highway 105 Palmer Lake
um

1657
02:05:18,240 --> 02:05:25,680
we have a greywater system that
was probably established in the early

1658
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:30,040
50s just after water was brought into
the house.

1659
02:05:27,440 --> 02:05:35,880
Um before that water wasn't in the
house. It was outside.

1660
02:05:32,600 --> 02:05:40,880
And if the water ever were to come down
105

1661
02:05:38,000 --> 02:05:44,400
which it almost did with the Mission
Training International

1662
02:05:43,160 --> 02:05:49,480
um
Bob and I don't have the financial

1663
02:05:46,160 --> 02:05:52,680
ability to join into it at this point.
We have a perfectly

1664
02:05:51,040 --> 02:05:56,800
working well
we're confined to our space. We are

1665
02:05:54,880 --> 02:05:59,160
self-sufficient
in that

1666
02:05:57,840 --> 02:06:03,960
realm
and to ask us to come up with 20 or 30

1667
02:06:02,120 --> 02:06:09,480
thousand dollars
to trench out to the 105

1668
02:06:06,640 --> 02:06:13,560
to hook in to city water
is not a financial thing that is is

1669
02:06:11,600 --> 02:06:19,640
viable for us.
So it might be just easier to say

1670
02:06:17,127 --> 02:06:24,520
[clears throat] if you're on a well
you have the choice to join city water

1671
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:31,240
or not
instead of making it you must and then

1672
02:06:28,240 --> 02:06:37,720
we'll back into your greywater issue.
So you might just consider that because

1673
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:39,120
» Well, in in response to that, if I may,
uh

1674
02:06:38,360 --> 02:06:44,920
um
Matt, did you state that it was in code

1675
02:06:42,440 --> 02:06:44,920
that

1676
02:06:44,960 --> 02:06:49,520
And there's something about distance.
It's in the well agreement

1677
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:58,160
Okay, so it seems like that's what would
need to be addressed in regards to your

1678
02:06:55,600 --> 02:07:03,800
situation. Yeah, somewhere in there. So,
not necessarily and and the gray water

1679
02:07:00,360 --> 02:07:07,720
is kind of an aside. So, I don't know
what you need to do to

1680
02:07:05,720 --> 02:07:11,640
research and address that initial
question,

1681
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:16,320
but you make a good point. Yeah. Su- Su-
I waited till the water had gone down

1682
02:07:13,240 --> 02:07:22,640
105. It's going to be a long time. Yeah.
Susan, you and I were probably in the

1683
02:07:18,280 --> 02:07:27,720
same boat. Our We have pre-1985 wells.
And the well permits that the folks in

1684
02:07:25,120 --> 02:07:32,240
the East End, I think, step Matt, aren't
they later than '85?

1685
02:07:30,400 --> 02:07:37,320
That's why you have that in your well
permit. See, so

1686
02:07:34,600 --> 02:07:40,440
Our well was back in 1904. Yeah,
exactly.

1687
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:44,160
Yeah. But
we were forced

1688
02:07:41,720 --> 02:07:47,000
to join the town water and financially
it's not so

1689
02:07:45,200 --> 02:07:50,040
We can't
I understand. Sorry.

1690
02:07:51,680 --> 02:08:00,480
Yeah, so um
I encourage you to to pursue,

1691
02:07:56,760 --> 02:08:05,360
you know, whatever might be necessary to
clarify what which well permits have

1692
02:08:03,320 --> 02:08:09,640
this attached to them. Maybe yours
doesn't, I don't know.

1693
02:08:07,320 --> 02:08:15,120
Um but it's this kind of a separate
issue from the gray water stuff, okay?

1694
02:08:13,120 --> 02:08:17,680
In my opinion.
Uh again,

1695
02:08:16,720 --> 02:08:22,360
uh
my motion is to continue this until we

1696
02:08:20,480 --> 02:08:24,880
have further
answers.

1697
02:08:23,800 --> 02:08:27,000
Um
and do I have a second? Yeah, he seconds

1698
02:08:26,920 --> 02:08:32,560
it.
>> Yeah, I do have a second. So, all in

1699
02:08:28,920 --> 02:08:37,120
favor? Aye. Aye. Opposed?
Hearing no opposition, this is continued

1700
02:08:34,920 --> 02:08:42,240
until we have more answers. Hopefully,
next meeting.

1701
02:08:39,800 --> 02:08:42,240
Okay?

1702
02:08:42,560 --> 02:08:48,000
All right, you may have to come back
again

1703
02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:52,320
in regards to this subject. So.
>> That's fine. All right. And I I

1704
02:08:52,800 --> 02:09:00,200
I understand that, but just before that,
you know, I don't know what Kent may

1705
02:08:57,440 --> 02:09:04,160
come up with, but you guys can talk,
you know, before next meeting if

1706
02:09:01,480 --> 02:09:07,800
necessary, etc. Yeah, we need to read
from the same sheet of music, yeah.

1707
02:09:06,400 --> 02:09:12,880
All right. And then you had something
else?

1708
02:09:09,320 --> 02:09:17,320
I do. I have a uh
a request. I would like to uh it's a

1709
02:09:14,960 --> 02:09:20,960
request concerning water restrictions.
Um

1710
02:09:18,600 --> 02:09:25,080
so, I would like to respectfully request
that the Board of Trustees consider

1711
02:09:22,840 --> 02:09:31,080
delegating limited administrative
authority to implement and adjust water

1712
02:09:27,920 --> 02:09:35,440
use restrictions as conditions warrant.
Um currently, the town code provides for

1713
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:41,520
water restrictions, primarily under
emergency uh emergency declaration.

1714
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:45,440
However, uh changing conditions such as
seasonal demand, drought indicators,

1715
02:09:43,520 --> 02:09:49,040
system capacity,
supply levels, and and things like

1716
02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:53,920
administrative calls on the creek by the
Department of Natural Resources,

1717
02:09:51,120 --> 02:09:59,120
um require potentially more flexible
responses that may not

1718
02:09:56,280 --> 02:10:04,720
rise to the level of a formal emergency.
Um

1719
02:10:01,280 --> 02:10:07,840
so, um this week, today actually, we we
got a call on the creek for senior

1720
02:10:06,160 --> 02:10:10,520
users. So,
we've had to

1721
02:10:08,840 --> 02:10:13,600
basically shut down on surface water
production.

1722
02:10:11,920 --> 02:10:17,120
Um
and we're going to have to use our wells

1723
02:10:15,680 --> 02:10:20,200
a lot more now.
Um

1724
02:10:18,520 --> 02:10:24,560
that came today, that started at noon,
and there was a call yesterday on the

1725
02:10:21,600 --> 02:10:30,160
creek that wasn't as senior as us, so we
were okay, but

1726
02:10:26,640 --> 02:10:33,520
the one today trumps us, so
we have to we can't we can't use water

1727
02:10:32,200 --> 02:10:39,680
out of the creek as long as they have
that call. Now, it's indefinite, but uh

1728
02:10:37,640 --> 02:10:44,040
it's indefinite. It should be until they
satisfy their

1729
02:10:41,360 --> 02:10:47,960
their uh allotment, but
I don't know when that's going to be

1730
02:10:46,000 --> 02:10:53,960
for right now, so
um I would like to implement further

1731
02:10:50,440 --> 02:10:57,920
outdoor water restrictions for now, and
it may come to further reductions in the

1732
02:10:56,360 --> 02:11:01,280
future.
But,

1733
02:10:59,320 --> 02:11:04,720
I want to be able to make that decision
quickly

1734
02:11:02,760 --> 02:11:08,240
because the situation can change like it
did today. I

1735
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:13,840
Glenn, how do you communicate that to
the residents quick quick quickly?

1736
02:11:12,680 --> 02:11:18,920
You can put it out You can put it
online.

1737
02:11:15,080 --> 02:11:18,920
Online and water bills.

1738
02:11:19,800 --> 02:11:26,840
Yeah, we have a
uh process. We put it online. Uh we let

1739
02:11:23,400 --> 02:11:32,040
our local uh outlets know about it. We
do our water billing. We'll use our

1740
02:11:29,160 --> 02:11:37,200
marquee on Main Street. Um every
resource we can. Um

1741
02:11:34,440 --> 02:11:42,520
Chaz and I also discussed if he felt uh
more information was needed, we would

1742
02:11:39,160 --> 02:11:46,240
send out individual flyers to residents.
Um

1743
02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:50,360
in the event we have to go into it
quicker than than when the bills cut or

1744
02:11:48,640 --> 02:11:53,800
something to that effect.
So, yeah, we'll use all those um

1745
02:11:52,400 --> 02:11:58,800
PR strategies.
>> an emergency declaration. I mean, in my

1746
02:11:56,360 --> 02:12:00,640
head an emergency is like a fire in the
canyon and it burns our plant down or

1747
02:12:00,520 --> 02:12:04,840
something.
>> Yeah, the issue we came upon is, you

1748
02:12:03,000 --> 02:12:09,680
know, under water conservation, which
we're under right now, it um so

1749
02:12:07,280 --> 02:12:13,120
specifically defines what those
restrictions are. And those have been in

1750
02:12:11,960 --> 02:12:17,120
code
forever. And what it really doesn't do,

1751
02:12:14,880 --> 02:12:19,880
it doesn't allow Chaz, you know, like
for instance, right now it says Monday,

1752
02:12:18,520 --> 02:12:22,880
Wednesday, Friday and I'm just saying
hypothetically Monday, Wednesday, Friday

1753
02:12:21,480 --> 02:12:28,440
you can water from this time to this
time. Well, right now um

1754
02:12:25,560 --> 02:12:34,840
Chaz fills value in kind of a different
schedule. Um where it won't really um

1755
02:12:33,080 --> 02:12:38,000
I mean it'll still impact the citizen,
but um

1756
02:12:37,400 --> 02:12:41,680
I guess
>> I had considered maybe a a 2-day a week

1757
02:12:40,400 --> 02:12:45,160
restriction, but
>> different times.

1758
02:12:42,680 --> 02:12:49,720
» Um I think maybe leaving the days that
are in place for odd and even addresses,

1759
02:12:47,080 --> 02:12:53,600
but cutting out one of the time blocks.
It's currently 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. and

1760
02:12:51,640 --> 02:12:57,160
6:00 to 9:00 p.m. Yeah, but if we wanted
to go 5:00 to 9:00 or something, you

1761
02:12:55,600 --> 02:13:01,120
know, it's in res we have to bring you
know, in the evening Right.

1762
02:12:59,080 --> 02:13:06,480
» days. So, if you designated authority to
Chaz as the SME of the water or the or

1763
02:13:05,000 --> 02:13:10,880
the water as the water supervisor, you'd
allow him to direct that a little bit

1764
02:13:08,280 --> 02:13:15,000
more so we could get it going quicker.
Um that's really all your intent was

1765
02:13:13,680 --> 02:13:18,800
when you and I discussed it.
>> and I wanted to say that, you know,

1766
02:13:16,920 --> 02:13:23,360
should you delegate that, it would still
remain subject to clearly defined

1767
02:13:20,640 --> 02:13:28,560
parameters within town code or policy,
oversight by the administrator and the

1768
02:13:25,640 --> 02:13:32,360
Board of Trustees, uh regular reporting
to the board regarding actions taken.

1769
02:13:31,040 --> 02:13:34,920
Um
anyway, I think this approach would

1770
02:13:33,680 --> 02:13:39,480
allow the town to respond more
efficiently to changing conditions um

1771
02:13:37,720 --> 02:13:43,520
while still maintaining transparency and
accountability. Chaz, if we delegated

1772
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:47,400
this to you, could we just say next 6
months and then it's reverts back?

1773
02:13:45,760 --> 02:13:51,120
That's kind of what I my thought is at
least the way things look now through

1774
02:13:49,320 --> 02:13:56,680
the summer or at least, you know, if we
start getting regular precipitation, we

1775
02:13:53,040 --> 02:13:59,360
can go ahead and rescind it.
>> Yeah, that was my question. Does this a

1776
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:02,080
code change or is this a
>> the purpose because in the event, you

1777
02:14:01,080 --> 02:14:05,360
know, then you'll just have to change
the code again.

1778
02:14:02,920 --> 02:14:09,040
» Right. Delegating authority is allowing
him to make the recommendation of or

1779
02:14:07,480 --> 02:14:12,480
keep the board informed, but it gives
him the flexibility

1780
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:16,880
to change you know, again, that's just a
different restriction. Right. I I

1781
02:14:14,880 --> 02:14:20,560
» Without having to change code or write
new code, right?

1782
02:14:18,200 --> 02:14:24,840
» Right. So, if it says 6 months, I mean,
I don't just my opinion, but can't I

1783
02:14:22,360 --> 02:14:24,840
don't know.

1784
02:14:28,160 --> 02:14:33,880
Well, I think you could do it either
way. It's at the board's discretion. You

1785
02:14:31,960 --> 02:14:37,840
could limit the time period that you
delegate that authority or make it a

1786
02:14:35,560 --> 02:14:42,440
permanent arrangement. If you made it a
permanent arrangement, but there was

1787
02:14:39,560 --> 02:14:46,560
checks and balances where Jazz was or
whoever was the operator was required to

1788
02:14:44,760 --> 02:14:51,680
check in and keep you apprised, it
probably had the necessary safeguards in

1789
02:14:49,160 --> 02:14:51,680
place.

1790
02:14:54,960 --> 02:15:00,960
Yeah, that that actually answered my
questions, which is, you know, yeah, I I

1791
02:14:59,360 --> 02:15:05,880
don't disagree with your request. I
think it's a a suitable request. And

1792
02:15:04,320 --> 02:15:08,880
you know, as you you already touched on
those elements that I was concerned

1793
02:15:07,280 --> 02:15:12,360
about, which is reporting to the board,
making of course the public aware and

1794
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:15,040
um
you know, keeping us abreast of what's

1795
02:15:13,600 --> 02:15:18,600
happening and what decisions you've
taken. Uh I think those that's

1796
02:15:17,440 --> 02:15:23,840
reasonable.
Uh and this is a staff staff direction,

1797
02:15:20,880 --> 02:15:27,920
right? So, not not a code change, if I'm
understanding correctly. No. Is that

1798
02:15:25,960 --> 02:15:33,160
» Well, it would be because there's
actually code provisions on

1799
02:15:30,240 --> 02:15:37,160
water conservation and when to declare
an emergency and when restrictions go

1800
02:15:35,400 --> 02:15:41,360
into place, what they are.
So, yeah, it would be an amendment.

1801
02:15:39,000 --> 02:15:41,360
Okay.

1802
02:15:41,840 --> 02:15:47,760
Also, quick question. So,
there was discussion that got into very

1803
02:15:46,080 --> 02:15:51,280
specific
particular

1804
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:54,560
provisions around water restrictions
right now. [clears throat] Are you also

1805
02:15:52,640 --> 02:15:57,560
asking for some guidance on that or was
that just an example?

1806
02:15:58,200 --> 02:16:02,720
Could you repeat that one more time? So,
there was some discussion back and forth

1807
02:16:01,160 --> 02:16:07,200
a minute ago, I think between you and
Erica, about particular, you know,

1808
02:16:05,560 --> 02:16:11,800
watering times and restrictions as well.
So, my question is, are you also asking

1809
02:16:09,160 --> 02:16:15,880
us for help or guidance on that or was
that just an example? Not necessarily,

1810
02:16:13,840 --> 02:16:19,960
but I'm I'm open to
recommendations or suggestions.

1811
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:24,440
» Right. I I I don't want to
have too large of an impact on Right. on

1812
02:16:22,680 --> 02:16:29,920
people in town. I Something I hate to
do, but it's it's become necessary, so.

1813
02:16:28,360 --> 02:16:34,639
So, it's probably a
you know,

1814
02:16:30,920 --> 02:16:39,000
an obvious answer to this question, but
uh

1815
02:16:36,480 --> 02:16:45,400
bottom line is that our wells can't
handle the increased demand.

1816
02:16:42,480 --> 02:16:50,040
They can handle it, but
when there's a call on the creek like

1817
02:16:46,679 --> 02:16:53,679
this, I've I'm effectively limited to
just the wells.

1818
02:16:51,480 --> 02:16:57,040
So, I've lost an entire source of of
water.

1819
02:16:55,120 --> 02:17:01,960
So, the wells can handle it. They're
designed to. They're designed to run. Um

1820
02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:06,320
but now all the
demand burden is placed strictly on the

1821
02:17:04,480 --> 02:17:09,760
wells and we really use them as a
supplement now.

1822
02:17:07,840 --> 02:17:14,120
I mean, most of our water in the town
for demand comes out of the creek.

1823
02:17:12,280 --> 02:17:18,080
So, it will require running that
equipment quite a bit more than we

1824
02:17:16,400 --> 02:17:22,519
usually do. And And it'll be fine, but
it's just it's a big change.

1825
02:17:20,440 --> 02:17:24,800
It's a big change to rely solely on that
now.

1826
02:17:22,840 --> 02:17:30,440
» You're being proactive, in other words,
in regards [snorts] to

1827
02:17:26,800 --> 02:17:32,840
just being moderate in our use of just
wells.

1828
02:17:31,880 --> 02:17:38,719
If I'm hearing you right.
>> I think what he said was the the You

1829
02:17:35,559 --> 02:17:44,160
said the creek source has been cut off.
Therefore, we have to use the wells as

1830
02:17:41,800 --> 02:17:48,320
our only source, right?
It will be essentially a sole source.

1831
02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:52,440
Yeah. While especially while this call
is on the creek. Okay. Um since they

1832
02:17:50,760 --> 02:17:54,080
trump us, they get to fill they get to
use whatever water's there to fulfill

1833
02:17:53,920 --> 02:17:58,280
their
>> ask who it is? So, I have to take a

1834
02:17:55,960 --> 02:18:04,480
backseat to that. May I ask who is the
senior senior uh

1835
02:18:02,000 --> 02:18:06,920
Who has senior rights us that's asking
for this?

1836
02:18:07,040 --> 02:18:14,120
Who has senior rights?
Oh, the call is

1837
02:18:12,760 --> 02:18:18,679
I think it's ultimately Springs
Utilities, but it's uh the name of it.

1838
02:18:19,240 --> 02:18:26,719
The name of the call is it's from the uh
Banister song.

1839
02:18:23,679 --> 02:18:31,080
And uh they
they have 160 days seniority on about

1840
02:18:29,599 --> 02:18:33,559
this. All of our infrastructure is
theirs.

1841
02:18:32,440 --> 02:18:36,000
They just do. That's all the case.
That's all the case for them. I

1842
02:18:34,519 --> 02:18:40,400
understand that I understand the
legality of it. Yeah.

1843
02:18:38,080 --> 02:18:45,719
All right. So, but I think that Banister
song right along Springs Utilities.

1844
02:18:43,320 --> 02:18:45,719
Okay.

1845
02:18:47,639 --> 02:18:56,400
Okay. So, I think the
the board needs to direct staff on

1846
02:18:53,719 --> 02:18:59,559
changing the code to allow him to be
able to take administrative like

1847
02:18:57,800 --> 02:19:04,360
administrative actions.
Is that right? I think it's it's a

1848
02:19:01,480 --> 02:19:08,679
motion rather than a direction. Well,
it's a direction to prepare the changes

1849
02:19:07,120 --> 02:19:13,240
and then it will be a motion for us to
adopt the resolution, right? I think

1850
02:19:11,280 --> 02:19:19,880
it's direction to create a code
amendment for the next meeting. So, will

1851
02:19:16,200 --> 02:19:25,440
he or will he not be able to implement
uh before or after

1852
02:19:22,400 --> 02:19:27,840
we approve what you bring back to us?
Well, in the interim

1853
02:19:27,160 --> 02:19:31,559
um
you can declare a

1854
02:19:29,679 --> 02:19:36,360
an emergency.
And you have you don't have to implement

1855
02:19:34,400 --> 02:19:40,440
all of those restrictions. You have that
whole laundry list of restrictions that

1856
02:19:38,080 --> 02:19:44,840
are listed in the code for conservation
measures. Okay. Um so, that that'd be an

1857
02:19:43,280 --> 02:19:48,440
option.
Tonight. That was in

1858
02:19:48,760 --> 02:19:54,640
You might want to speak to that. Right
now, I don't feel Chaz was hesitant to

1859
02:19:52,840 --> 02:19:58,640
call an emergency. Could we get a little
more volume potentially?

1860
02:19:59,120 --> 02:20:04,800
Sorry. Do you want to speak You had
shared with me about you weren't in a

1861
02:20:03,080 --> 02:20:09,120
position where he really wanted to We're
not like in an emergency level, right?

1862
02:20:07,400 --> 02:20:13,760
» Understood. And so that's part of why
our hands were tied when we were

1863
02:20:11,040 --> 02:20:18,440
evaluating the code. He wants to be able
to restrict it, but he does not want to

1864
02:20:16,600 --> 02:20:20,760
want it to call it an emergency and I
That's where

1865
02:20:18,880 --> 02:20:25,120
» to implement further
restrictions if necessary without

1866
02:20:23,280 --> 02:20:30,000
rising to the level of calling it an
emergency. Right. So do you feel because

1867
02:20:27,880 --> 02:20:34,560
in order to make this change, you know,
they have to do it via resolution, which

1868
02:20:32,040 --> 02:20:37,640
would be the next meeting.
Are you okay with having, you know,

1869
02:20:35,880 --> 02:20:41,280
that's 2 weeks till our next meeting
before you can go in and change it from

1870
02:20:39,360 --> 02:20:44,320
what it currently is under conservation
right now. That's basically, I think,

1871
02:20:42,840 --> 02:20:49,600
what they need to understand.
>> okay operating in the short term

1872
02:20:46,720 --> 02:20:53,960
the way things are. Yes. Okay.
I guess and in the event an emergency,

1873
02:20:52,600 --> 02:20:57,000
you know, we go to
different levels and an emergency needs

1874
02:20:55,560 --> 02:21:01,680
to be called, then we would come back to
the board with that.

1875
02:20:59,240 --> 02:21:05,680
And that's all we can really do because
that code is so restrictive.

1876
02:21:06,080 --> 02:21:15,560
Another question I have is do you have
a chart of what changes you want to make

1877
02:21:12,560 --> 02:21:15,560
on the restrictions?

1878
02:21:15,600 --> 02:21:22,200
Well, I haven't
really decided and then like I said, I

1879
02:21:19,880 --> 02:21:25,400
could I'd use input from you from the
board. Um

1880
02:21:23,640 --> 02:21:30,560
if we wanted to go to a 2-day a week
restriction from the current 3-day

1881
02:21:28,000 --> 02:21:33,920
and leave the watering times in place,
my thought was to leave the days in

1882
02:21:32,480 --> 02:21:38,120
place because that's what people are
used to. So if we went to 2 days, I'd

1883
02:21:36,480 --> 02:21:42,000
want to implement
2 days for everybody to water on and

1884
02:21:40,360 --> 02:21:44,680
that's probably going to throw everybody
off.

1885
02:21:43,000 --> 02:21:47,720
Like if we did Tuesday and Saturday or
something, well,

1886
02:21:46,440 --> 02:21:53,400
now people are going to have to get used
to doing a new routine. So my thought

1887
02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:57,840
was keeping the days in place and maybe
changing it to one watering period like

1888
02:21:55,120 --> 02:22:02,240
5:00 p.m. to 9:00 or a a 6:00 to 10:00
p.m. but taking away the morning

1889
02:21:59,800 --> 02:22:08,360
watering time block.
And so that effectively cuts our outdoor

1890
02:22:04,880 --> 02:22:08,360
usage in half, right? So.

1891
02:22:09,640 --> 02:22:18,320
But I'm I'm open to suggestions.
>> I agree with leaving the days and and

1892
02:22:14,560 --> 02:22:18,320
and shortening the hours.

1893
02:22:19,760 --> 02:22:25,400
So we're just going to one one time
block rather than two time blocks.

1894
02:22:24,240 --> 02:22:28,880
That's what I that's what I thought.
>> One time block instead of two. I and the

1895
02:22:27,360 --> 02:22:33,640
same days that you have now for
watering. I think it makes it easier for

1896
02:22:30,880 --> 02:22:33,640
everybody that way.

1897
02:22:34,360 --> 02:22:39,440
» Um
So again, we need a motion. Is that

1898
02:22:38,000 --> 02:22:42,800
correct?
No, just direction.

1899
02:22:42,880 --> 02:22:47,160
Just direction to create an ordinance
along those lines.

1900
02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:51,040
» Okay.
All in favor of creating an ordinance

1901
02:22:49,040 --> 02:22:55,520
along those lines. Aye.
>> Aye. Opposed?

1902
02:22:53,200 --> 02:22:58,840
Hearing no opposed, the direction has
been given.

1903
02:22:57,640 --> 02:23:01,080
So I'm still a little bit unclear. I
understand, of course, we're going to

1904
02:22:59,840 --> 02:23:03,680
have the ordinance change, but I'm still
a little bit unclear as to whether or

1905
02:23:02,200 --> 02:23:08,480
not we actually gave you proper
direction on changing the

1906
02:23:06,320 --> 02:23:12,000
watering restriction time.
>> it until we pass the law. And it would

1907
02:23:10,120 --> 02:23:16,640
be at his direction as the water
supervisor ORC. He would come to the

1908
02:23:14,240 --> 02:23:20,000
board based off of his evaluation of
water levels. I mean, they measure them

1909
02:23:18,320 --> 02:23:23,920
all day long. That's what, you know,
he's our water expert for the town. He

1910
02:23:22,320 --> 02:23:29,440
will come and make recommendations to
the board in the event he needs to

1911
02:23:26,240 --> 02:23:34,240
restrict those water restrict
the water usage. Um and I would think

1912
02:23:32,840 --> 02:23:38,240
you would come with, you know, an
explanation as to why we're doing that

1913
02:23:36,320 --> 02:23:41,280
based off of levels.
I mean, that's really what it is. It's

1914
02:23:39,520 --> 02:23:45,920
allowing him to bring that
recommendation to the board and from

1915
02:23:43,160 --> 02:23:49,520
there if the board decides, you know,
no, those are too restrictive or no, we

1916
02:23:48,200 --> 02:23:51,800
don't want to do that, then that would
be the time to say so.

1917
02:23:50,200 --> 02:23:54,800
» where we're at right now with the call
on the creek, and again, this won't be

1918
02:23:53,440 --> 02:23:58,800
permanent.
It's in It's indefinite when they'll

1919
02:23:56,640 --> 02:24:04,840
stop the call, but it's effectively like
having a dry creek right now. That water

1920
02:24:00,880 --> 02:24:08,240
doesn't It doesn't belong to us now. So,
I I'm ready to, you know, implement some

1921
02:24:06,720 --> 02:24:11,040
restrictions
as soon as we can.

1922
02:24:12,840 --> 02:24:16,360
I believe you've been given direction.

1923
02:24:17,360 --> 02:24:23,640
Um that's the end of our uh business
items. Uh

1924
02:24:24,240 --> 02:24:26,800
Yes, sir.

1925
02:24:29,480 --> 02:24:33,920
Um so
>> State your name and I'm sorry. Matt

1926
02:24:32,280 --> 02:24:37,520
Steffen, Circle Drive.
Um

1927
02:24:34,920 --> 02:24:41,200
two things in relation to this.
One,

1928
02:24:39,440 --> 02:24:46,160
we're hesitating
to declare a water emergency,

1929
02:24:44,240 --> 02:24:50,040
but it sounds like he's requesting
restrictions be placed immediately,

1930
02:24:48,360 --> 02:24:54,920
which I'm not hearing direction being
given from the board to implement.

1931
02:24:52,840 --> 02:24:58,640
Secondly,
if the ordinance is written and

1932
02:24:56,480 --> 02:25:03,760
presented to you next time, if it's not
in an emergency status, it'll be 30 days

1933
02:25:01,600 --> 02:25:07,000
before it can be implemented. So, you
would be It's not an ordinance. It's a

1934
02:25:05,640 --> 02:25:09,840
resolution. I'm sorry. It's a
resolution.

1935
02:25:07,520 --> 02:25:12,800
» And so, the 30 days doesn't apply. But
you would be changing town code, would

1936
02:25:11,200 --> 02:25:15,280
that not require 30 days notice for the
public?

1937
02:25:15,440 --> 02:25:22,360
Well, even with an ordinance, if it is
to protect the health and safety

1938
02:25:20,640 --> 02:25:26,120
and welfare of the town, it can go into
effect immediately.

1939
02:25:23,400 --> 02:25:29,720
» Okay. And your first point is exactly my
question, which is he sounds like he's

1940
02:25:27,760 --> 02:25:30,800
asking for help. He's asking for help
now.

1941
02:25:30,000 --> 02:25:32,560
» to get
trying to get it to him in an expedient

1942
02:25:32,040 --> 02:25:38,520
fashion.
>> Right. So, so

1943
02:25:35,800 --> 02:25:43,640
uh town clerk just said he will come
with recommendations and requests for

1944
02:25:41,160 --> 02:25:46,960
implementing restrictions.
You gave direction to the attorney to

1945
02:25:45,560 --> 02:25:50,560
write the ordinance but or the
resolution but not necessarily to

1946
02:25:48,800 --> 02:25:53,840
implement immediately water
restrictions, which it sounds like is

1947
02:25:52,120 --> 02:26:00,960
what he's asking for. And if we're
looking at potential for 150 days of a

1948
02:25:56,320 --> 02:26:04,720
dry creek or an essentially dry creek,
it sounds like the restrictions are

1949
02:26:02,800 --> 02:26:09,520
being requested now. And I wasn't
hearing action being given on that.

1950
02:26:06,480 --> 02:26:12,080
» What I heard recommended to us from this
side of the

1951
02:26:10,800 --> 02:26:16,880
uh uh ordinance
>> He can't come to you now with He doesn't

1952
02:26:14,280 --> 02:26:21,160
have that power. Correct. Without going
into the

1953
02:26:18,000 --> 02:26:25,360
You could declare an emergency and
with

1954
02:26:22,840 --> 02:26:28,880
Jazz, you know, working with the board,
you could implement specific

1955
02:26:26,920 --> 02:26:33,600
restrictions now.
Okay.

1956
02:26:30,280 --> 02:26:39,000
I hadn't heard that before. Okay. Um I'm
willing to do that.

1957
02:26:35,640 --> 02:26:42,880
Um it's one of our precious resources,
so

1958
02:26:40,480 --> 02:26:42,880
um

1959
02:26:42,920 --> 02:26:49,080
So, that would require
direction or a motion?

1960
02:26:51,160 --> 02:26:56,920
Do you want to do an emergency? Like
that's what they're asking. Yes. Yes.

1961
02:26:55,520 --> 02:27:02,000
Yeah, I as I thought you said
>> I get I mean, we can if if Yeah, if you

1962
02:26:59,800 --> 02:27:05,760
want to, that's That's also fine. It
gets the intended result. I mean, in my

1963
02:27:04,240 --> 02:27:09,120
head, I'm just thinking emergency is
like

1964
02:27:06,880 --> 02:27:14,480
a plant goes down and I physically have
I don't have it anymore, right? But

1965
02:27:11,960 --> 02:27:17,840
That's an extreme emergency. This is
This is

1966
02:27:15,040 --> 02:27:21,040
» Right, you know, Yeah.
I guess I ultimately I'm fine either

1967
02:27:19,440 --> 02:27:25,080
way. The The declaration
>> like to get some some

1968
02:27:22,800 --> 02:27:29,000
» The
>> Does it require you to do all the

1969
02:27:26,960 --> 02:27:34,040
restrictions listed in the code? You can
do one of the restrictions.

1970
02:27:30,520 --> 02:27:39,400
» Whatever. Okay. And that that discretion
would be his or still ours?

1971
02:27:37,760 --> 02:27:45,400
You would ask his what? I think you
could delegate that as part of the

1972
02:27:41,800 --> 02:27:53,440
resolution declaring an emergency.
Okay. So, that requires a motion? Yes.

1973
02:27:50,440 --> 02:27:58,480
I move that we declare an emergency and
delegate the

1974
02:27:55,240 --> 02:28:03,840
um response to said emergency to our
water operator.

1975
02:28:00,800 --> 02:28:07,160
Do I have a second? I'll second that.
All in favor? I.

1976
02:28:05,640 --> 02:28:11,200
» I. I.
There are none opposed. Consider

1977
02:28:09,440 --> 02:28:14,840
yourself delegated.
Good. Thank you. You're welcome.

1978
02:28:17,000 --> 02:28:24,240
One last question. So, am I bringing in
Are we bringing a resolution back on the

1979
02:28:21,400 --> 02:28:28,880
verbage for the conservation delegating
him aside from the emergencies?

1980
02:28:26,440 --> 02:28:30,000
» Ask ask our town attorney. What what is
the

1981
02:28:28,960 --> 02:28:32,840
» Well, what I need to know what the
board's direction is.

1982
02:28:31,000 --> 02:28:35,280
» the answer is still yes.
>> Thank you.

1983
02:28:36,200 --> 02:28:38,840
All right.

1984
02:28:38,960 --> 02:28:44,680
Um now we're done with the business
items.

1985
02:28:43,160 --> 02:28:52,680
Okay.
Um and so, we'll open it up to public

1986
02:28:47,080 --> 02:28:52,680
comment. And we have uh Ms. Minor.

1987
02:28:54,320 --> 02:28:59,400
Susan Minor,
um 105 Palmer Lake.

1988
02:28:58,320 --> 02:29:04,720
Um
Following [clears throat]

1989
02:29:00,760 --> 02:29:09,280
uh Trustee Yurkus' point about all the
board members should be working from the

1990
02:29:06,760 --> 02:29:13,560
same knowledge base,
before you go into executive session to

1991
02:29:12,200 --> 02:29:20,960
discuss
the Elephant Rock property, I'd like to

1992
02:29:16,680 --> 02:29:27,120
refer you back to resolution 25 of 2024,
where the board desires to involve town

1993
02:29:24,400 --> 02:29:32,160
organizations and members of the public
in providing input into the vision of

1994
02:29:29,680 --> 02:29:37,120
the land use plan for the Elephant Rock
property by providing a recommendation

1995
02:29:34,680 --> 02:29:41,360
to the Board of Trustees to better
enable the Board of Trustees to make a

1996
02:29:39,720 --> 02:29:46,720
determination on the use of the
property. The purpose, and that's

1997
02:29:43,720 --> 02:29:50,240
paragraph number three, item number two,
the purpose of the advisory committee is

1998
02:29:48,840 --> 02:29:56,440
to provide
the Board of Trustees a recommendation

1999
02:29:53,880 --> 02:30:01,920
of the vision of the Palmer the Elephant
Rock property in the form of possible

2000
02:29:59,240 --> 02:30:05,760
land use plan within 90 days of the
resolution. We met all of those

2001
02:30:04,240 --> 02:30:09,520
requirements.
I was appointed by the Board when I was

2002
02:30:08,040 --> 02:30:14,240
on the Board
to work with Planning Commission to do

2003
02:30:12,440 --> 02:30:19,280
the master plan.
At that point, we determined that the

2004
02:30:16,240 --> 02:30:25,720
Elephant Rock property was a unique
enough element that it should have its

2005
02:30:21,880 --> 02:30:30,520
own master plan approved by the Planning
Commission and the Board of Trustees to

2006
02:30:28,760 --> 02:30:39,200
take that approach.
This resolution was charging me with

2007
02:30:35,280 --> 02:30:44,000
setting up an organization involving
all the committees that we had outlined,

2008
02:30:42,480 --> 02:30:47,840
which is all the
different groups in town that were

2009
02:30:46,160 --> 02:30:52,720
stakeholders
to develop the master plan for the

2010
02:30:50,560 --> 02:30:59,200
Elephant Rock property.
In that master plan, we went back to all

2011
02:30:55,840 --> 02:31:04,600
of the input from the citizens. There
were 60 ideas for that property. They

2012
02:31:02,400 --> 02:31:10,800
were ranked. They were ranked by
plausibility, by use of the property,

2013
02:31:08,240 --> 02:31:13,680
and by use of the structures that were
there.

2014
02:31:12,000 --> 02:31:19,440
Of the 60,
47

2015
02:31:15,240 --> 02:31:24,480
had fee income attached to them, and 16
had the a proper

2016
02:31:21,280 --> 02:31:28,640
um sales tax opportunities.
We presented 146

2017
02:31:27,240 --> 02:31:33,040
pages
of documentation

2018
02:31:30,560 --> 02:31:37,760
of all of those ideas, of their
financial viability, of the resources

2019
02:31:36,200 --> 02:31:44,200
that could fill those financial
viability, and of all of the sources of

2020
02:31:41,120 --> 02:31:49,480
income that could come from that.
I would request that because most of

2021
02:31:47,560 --> 02:31:56,480
you, I would think, have not read this
document, it is an addendum to the

2022
02:31:52,920 --> 02:32:01,160
master plan, which you have proven
dependency on,

2023
02:31:59,000 --> 02:32:06,480
and that the planning commission uses as
a document. Before you talk about the

2024
02:32:04,280 --> 02:32:11,200
property, you should know what the
citizens wanted done with the town

2025
02:32:09,880 --> 02:32:16,440
property.
I would respectfully ask you to not have

2026
02:32:13,880 --> 02:32:20,800
that executive session and discuss the
fate until you all know what you're

2027
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:24,200
talking about.
On the same page. Thank you.

2028
02:32:22,360 --> 02:32:29,880
» Susan, what was the resolution number,
please? 25

2029
02:32:26,680 --> 02:32:36,840
of 2024. Thank you.
And with paragraph three is what I read,

2030
02:32:32,640 --> 02:32:36,840
and then item number two. Thank you.

2031
02:32:44,680 --> 02:32:51,560
Martha Brodzik, 551 Highway 105. Really
quick, the process that we've been

2032
02:32:49,880 --> 02:32:56,280
following in the town for the monthly
financials is

2033
02:32:53,880 --> 02:32:59,120
that they're brought before the board
uh

2034
02:32:57,280 --> 02:33:01,480
two board meetings after the close of
the month.

2035
02:33:00,320 --> 02:33:04,200
Um
in the last few months, we've been

2036
02:33:02,880 --> 02:33:09,840
getting them
three board meetings after, which is

2037
02:33:06,480 --> 02:33:14,800
five to six weeks. And just two weeks
ago in the

2038
02:33:11,800 --> 02:33:20,480
workshop with our new accountant, your
part-time controller, they even said

2039
02:33:17,920 --> 02:33:24,720
with one of their flags to avoid CORAs,
it's best to provide the monthly

2040
02:33:22,080 --> 02:33:29,440
financials within two two weeks of the
month closing out. Please consider that.

2041
02:33:27,000 --> 02:33:29,440
Thank you.

2042
02:33:34,080 --> 02:33:40,200
Before I was pushed aside, I was going
to come up

2043
02:33:37,640 --> 02:33:44,320
and talk about the water issue.
Uh I'm Paul Olivier, 301 Sterling

2044
02:33:43,200 --> 02:33:48,200
Avenue,
Palmer Lake.

2045
02:33:46,040 --> 02:33:53,160
While I was mayor,
uh Colorado Springs also cut off our use

2046
02:33:51,920 --> 02:33:57,840
of the
water from the lake uh from the

2047
02:33:55,640 --> 02:34:03,320
reservoirs and from the
creek.

2048
02:33:59,800 --> 02:34:06,400
Uh I got to know the Colorado Springs
mayor

2049
02:34:04,640 --> 02:34:10,320
fairly well.
I gave him a call.

2050
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:14,560
I said,
"Could you

2051
02:34:12,280 --> 02:34:18,280
shut off your call
because you have water from a lot of

2052
02:34:16,600 --> 02:34:21,480
other sources
other than

2053
02:34:19,680 --> 02:34:25,840
the creek here?"
He said, "I'm perfectly willing to do

2054
02:34:23,880 --> 02:34:31,600
that." And we were
able to continue using water from the

2055
02:34:28,160 --> 02:34:37,680
reservoir and from the creek. So, that's
something that took place about 39 years

2056
02:34:34,960 --> 02:34:40,960
ago, but it was possible to do that
then.

2057
02:34:38,720 --> 02:34:47,160
Maybe it's possible to do that now,
although a lot of change has taken place

2058
02:34:44,280 --> 02:34:49,440
in Colorado Springs. Thank you. Thank
you.

2059
02:34:56,040 --> 02:35:00,960
Uh hello. Name's Eric Sept, live on
Woodmoor Acres [clears throat] Drive in

2060
02:34:59,120 --> 02:35:03,880
Monument, Colorado. Can you speak up,
Eric?

2061
02:35:01,240 --> 02:35:06,360
» up, please? Oh, can you hear me now?
Speak a little louder, please. Can you

2062
02:35:05,600 --> 02:35:10,040
hear me now?
>> In the microphone. Oh, hello.

2063
02:35:09,622 --> 02:35:13,480
» [laughter]
>> Um Eric Sept, uh

2064
02:35:11,840 --> 02:35:18,200
live on Woodmoor Acres Drive, Monument,
Colorado. Uh I appreciate that uh the

2065
02:35:16,320 --> 02:35:23,560
town has sounds like a lot of overdue
business. You have a list of items.

2066
02:35:20,920 --> 02:35:27,920
Uh really my only question is is when
are all of those people that have

2067
02:35:25,080 --> 02:35:32,440
effective item affected items going to
be met with?

2068
02:35:30,800 --> 02:35:35,360
Like what is the schedule for meeting
with all of us?

2069
02:35:39,480 --> 02:35:43,160
If I might If I might ask a question,
Mr. Sepp.

2070
02:35:42,080 --> 02:35:47,920
Um
just for the public consumption once

2071
02:35:44,880 --> 02:35:54,720
again, Mr. Sepp owns um
at least 30, maybe 35 acres

2072
02:35:50,920 --> 02:35:58,560
just below Ben Loman on the 105 side.
He has been trying [snorts] now for how

2073
02:35:56,160 --> 02:36:02,600
many months, Mr. Sepp? 6, 8 months? It's
actually I looked it up. Um I first

2074
02:36:00,680 --> 02:36:08,800
contact I was first contacted by Tim
Caves uh April 1st of 2025 to start a

2075
02:36:06,040 --> 02:36:14,400
conservation easement. Okay, and so the
problem we're facing here is he's he's

2076
02:36:11,160 --> 02:36:20,040
willing to donate the land to our town.
We just need to get him together

2077
02:36:16,800 --> 02:36:26,080
with legal counsel because
the problem is if I'm if I'm out of if

2078
02:36:23,400 --> 02:36:30,160
I'm out of turn, I'll stop. I'm sorry.
I just want to remind the board and Mr.

2079
02:36:27,640 --> 02:36:34,680
Sepp a lot of this discussion has been
uh discussed in executive session and

2080
02:36:32,080 --> 02:36:39,280
not for the public uh to a certain
certain level. So, to keep the

2081
02:36:36,760 --> 02:36:43,560
negotiations secure, I would look to
Kent on how to advise us when speaking

2082
02:36:41,160 --> 02:36:47,440
on this topic. But I think I can save us
some time here, hopefully, because I'm

2083
02:36:45,600 --> 02:36:52,200
always long-winded. But as you guys all
noticed earlier, we discussed this

2084
02:36:49,080 --> 02:36:56,480
priority list, which prime example is
Mr. Sepp's project. Staff is

2085
02:36:54,520 --> 02:37:00,680
continuously
um approached or contacted by residents

2086
02:36:59,600 --> 02:37:06,440
um
requesting updates and status and

2087
02:37:03,880 --> 02:37:10,040
meetings and everything pertaining to
this

2088
02:37:07,640 --> 02:37:15,280
um information on the list due to lack
of legal counsel and now, you know lack

2089
02:37:12,680 --> 02:37:19,560
of planners, we're not able to give them
an answer. We are working forward and

2090
02:37:17,560 --> 02:37:23,240
and I feel in a better position now with
Kent and and this list we have a path

2091
02:37:21,880 --> 02:37:25,960
forward.
But again, that's that's where the

2092
02:37:24,800 --> 02:37:31,080
board's going to have to help us
prioritize, you know, speaking earlier

2093
02:37:28,680 --> 02:37:35,080
with the hearing and the investigation
as Kent said, that's consuming majority

2094
02:37:33,000 --> 02:37:39,240
of his time right now. He has received
information from this list, but he has

2095
02:37:37,520 --> 02:37:43,040
to get up to speed if I'm and I don't
want to speak for you. I'll let you

2096
02:37:40,880 --> 02:37:48,320
speak for yourself. Some of these will
take some time.

2097
02:37:45,720 --> 02:37:53,880
Yeah, just to add to that and and
hopefully address Mr. Sepp's question.

2098
02:37:51,560 --> 02:37:58,800
There's a lot on the list and that's why
we need guidance from the board where

2099
02:37:57,240 --> 02:38:03,480
you want me to
uh you know, focus my time because

2100
02:38:02,120 --> 02:38:08,800
um
there's a year's worth of stuff or more

2101
02:38:05,520 --> 02:38:13,080
on here. So, I need direction on where
you want me to focus. And just for maybe

2102
02:38:11,040 --> 02:38:17,520
more amplification and and tell me to
stop if I because I I I didn't attend

2103
02:38:15,000 --> 02:38:25,160
that executive session. The practical
consequences of stalling this particular

2104
02:38:21,120 --> 02:38:28,080
request is that he's relying on tax
credits.

2105
02:38:26,400 --> 02:38:32,400
And when those are gone,
he's going to build and that's his

2106
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:37,000
right. So, we can either put him very
very high and potentially get land given

2107
02:38:35,560 --> 02:38:41,440
to us
or we can continue to stall

2108
02:38:39,360 --> 02:38:45,600
and then according to our master plan,
105, we want to keep that as an open

2109
02:38:43,160 --> 02:38:48,160
space. He's allowed he he wants to do
that.

2110
02:38:46,720 --> 02:38:51,000
Let's let him do that, please. Let's
move him up to the very top. That's all

2111
02:38:50,480 --> 02:38:54,480
I'm asking.
>> that we're stalling

2112
02:38:52,600 --> 02:38:56,280
» stalling. So, I think that's the wrong
word.

2113
02:38:54,840 --> 02:38:58,720
» Okay, he's been trying for 6 to 8
months. He was never

2114
02:38:57,480 --> 02:39:03,200
» a It's not a matter of stalling. We
haven't had a an attorney. He We had an

2115
02:39:01,120 --> 02:39:07,120
attorney for several months. Our
attorney didn't meet with him. That's a

2116
02:39:05,600 --> 02:39:11,400
fact.
Let's be very clear. Well, I believe

2117
02:39:09,080 --> 02:39:15,120
that the word stall is incorrect.
>> Yeah, okay, I retract.

2118
02:39:12,840 --> 02:39:17,560
I retract stall. We've been unable to
meet with him.

2119
02:39:15,880 --> 02:39:21,000
» Yes, that's true. We have.
>> Yes, and

2120
02:39:18,800 --> 02:39:27,440
No, that's not true. I have attorney
bills from my attorney, Chris Cummins. I

2121
02:39:23,800 --> 02:39:33,120
was billed as we were trying to get Mr.
Crab to meet with us. He was

2122
02:39:29,680 --> 02:39:39,080
unresponsive uh for months
before he met. Yes, we had meetings, but

2123
02:39:35,480 --> 02:39:43,240
it should not take 6 to 8 weeks
to get a meeting and have me get

2124
02:39:40,960 --> 02:39:47,080
invoiced by my attorney to hunt down the
town attorney. I would I'm not I'm not

2125
02:39:45,760 --> 02:39:49,240
going to make this contentious, but we
did have meetings.

2126
02:39:48,000 --> 02:39:51,040
» Yeah. And I'm not going to have this
back and forth, but

2127
02:39:50,520 --> 02:39:54,800
» No, I just want
>> this this project is far more

2128
02:39:52,880 --> 02:39:59,320
complicated than some people like to
make it seem. Just so you know, this is

2129
02:39:57,440 --> 02:40:03,000
not just a land donation. Here it is,
have a nice day, take the keys and go.

2130
02:40:01,560 --> 02:40:06,240
Okay, there are a lot to do there.
There's easements there that have to be

2131
02:40:04,400 --> 02:40:10,280
dealt with. There are other lots that
Mr. Septs does not own in that in that

2132
02:40:08,680 --> 02:40:14,040
area that have to be dealt with. It
isn't as simple as everybody thinks it

2133
02:40:12,040 --> 02:40:17,280
is. So, yes, I understand we didn't have
an attorney. I understand it's taken a

2134
02:40:15,760 --> 02:40:21,280
long time, and I understand everybody's
frustrated. But and I understand if the

2135
02:40:19,760 --> 02:40:27,880
board chooses to accelerate it to the
top, so be it. But nobody's stalling

2136
02:40:25,920 --> 02:40:32,440
with this project. I'm not I'm not
asking for I'm nobody special. What I'm

2137
02:40:30,640 --> 02:40:36,880
asking for is just
am I meeting tomorrow, next week, next

2138
02:40:35,640 --> 02:40:43,360
year,
in 2035? When When can all of us

2139
02:40:41,040 --> 02:40:47,440
business owners or just citizens at
large that have things to do with Palmer

2140
02:40:45,840 --> 02:40:51,200
Lake, when when can we start to get
answers? Well,

2141
02:40:48,960 --> 02:40:55,600
and again, um
if I may, because you're looking at me

2142
02:40:53,400 --> 02:41:02,400
and I know you you contact me and ask
for updates. And I know Mr. Sept knows

2143
02:40:58,320 --> 02:41:07,040
this. He is one of 33 of almost
identical issues were delayed on

2144
02:41:04,840 --> 02:41:11,000
contract deadlines where people, you
know, we have other residents. And so,

2145
02:41:08,680 --> 02:41:15,560
I'm not trying to minimize his concern,
but what I'm really trying to bring the

2146
02:41:12,480 --> 02:41:20,240
attention to of the board is we really
have to get down to business. We have a

2147
02:41:17,720 --> 02:41:26,360
lot of these pending issues despite
where they're at in the process, but out

2148
02:41:22,560 --> 02:41:31,080
of the 33, we have 26 of them flagged as
ones, which is high priority. As And

2149
02:41:29,040 --> 02:41:37,080
yours is on there, Mr. Sip as number
one. I mean, the Eco Spa, Highbrook, 21

2150
02:41:35,040 --> 02:41:42,160
and five,
fire code that's delayed, the ADU. So,

2151
02:41:40,000 --> 02:41:47,400
we have all all of these. The issues
with the land use is we've provided Kent

2152
02:41:45,080 --> 02:41:51,680
with all of the information that we have
on behalf of the town.

2153
02:41:49,520 --> 02:41:55,040
And he needs time to review and get
updated, in which you haven't been able

2154
02:41:53,960 --> 02:41:59,120
to do
due to the investigation

2155
02:41:57,480 --> 02:42:03,800
that he was working on. So, I just want
to be transparent and clear. We are

2156
02:42:01,240 --> 02:42:08,760
doing everything staff can do. We need
board's direction on how to

2157
02:42:06,800 --> 02:42:13,240
prioritize or change. How How are you
going to, you know, And ma'am, to to

2158
02:42:10,800 --> 02:42:17,040
your credit, you you and Chief Smith
have been overly patient with me.

2159
02:42:15,800 --> 02:42:22,400
I think we've been overly patient with
each other. And it would just help if

2160
02:42:19,920 --> 02:42:26,160
there's just a general schedule that
like, you know, whoever, Jim Bob, you're

2161
02:42:24,520 --> 02:42:30,080
going to get met with in 3 weeks,
whatever. Eric, you're going to get met

2162
02:42:27,960 --> 02:42:32,640
with in 4 weeks. Like, can we just have
some generic

2163
02:42:32,040 --> 02:42:37,440
plan?
>> I believe that your concern has been

2164
02:42:34,360 --> 02:42:41,520
heard, and we as
Yeah,

2165
02:42:38,400 --> 02:42:46,680
regardless, but as stated, we have been
tasked The board has been tasked with

2166
02:42:43,280 --> 02:42:51,480
prioritizing this list. And again, we've
heard your concerns. We're very well

2167
02:42:48,480 --> 02:42:57,800
aware of it. Um I believe that as a
board, the board as a whole will do its

2168
02:42:53,720 --> 02:43:00,920
best to keep you at the top.
Thank you for your time.

2169
02:43:11,280 --> 02:43:14,400
Hi, I'm Grace Foy in unincorporated
County.

2170
02:43:13,520 --> 02:43:17,920
» You're going to have to speak up,
please. Can you hear me now?

2171
02:43:16,280 --> 02:43:22,080
Better. Okay.
Um I just wanted to address the

2172
02:43:19,560 --> 02:43:27,440
harassment complaint and subsequent
investigation and potential hearing

2173
02:43:24,600 --> 02:43:32,480
involving Trustee Mosley. Anyone who has
attended or watched any of these

2174
02:43:29,640 --> 02:43:38,520
meetings knows that Mr. Mosley speaks to
everyone in the same way. He challenges

2175
02:43:35,560 --> 02:43:43,480
people across the board, men and women
alike, when he sees issues or

2176
02:43:40,960 --> 02:43:47,480
incompetence. That's not harassment,
that's accountability.

2177
02:43:45,440 --> 02:43:53,000
However, what is truly concerning here
is the inconsistency in how these types

2178
02:43:49,960 --> 02:43:58,080
of matters are handled. In just the past
18 months, this community has witnessed

2179
02:43:55,640 --> 02:44:04,160
multiple allegations involving other
officials, ranging from inappropriate

2180
02:44:00,880 --> 02:44:09,960
gestures to serious misconduct that were
never investigated. Requests from both

2181
02:44:07,240 --> 02:44:15,400
trustees and citizens for investigations
into collusion and inappropriate

2182
02:44:12,320 --> 02:44:19,800
behavior were never investigated. There
have been public instances where the

2183
02:44:17,720 --> 02:44:25,000
former mayor appeared to coordinate with
a lobbyist during a land use discussion.

2184
02:44:22,920 --> 02:44:30,440
Members of the public have been called
degrading names, including sex workers,

2185
02:44:27,640 --> 02:44:35,440
fat cows, and terrorists. Trustees have
been made have made obscene gestures,

2186
02:44:33,280 --> 02:44:40,040
raised their voices, and even faced
accusations of physically intimidating a

2187
02:44:38,560 --> 02:44:45,400
constituent.
The interim town administrator made an

2188
02:44:42,400 --> 02:44:50,080
aggressive and unprofessional slashing
throat motion towards the audience and

2189
02:44:48,120 --> 02:44:55,200
the planning commission chair told the
public to shut their mouths.

2190
02:44:52,640 --> 02:45:00,520
People reported feeling threatened as
they were followed to their cars and

2191
02:44:57,400 --> 02:45:06,720
there are extensive documents, concerns
about dishonesty and misrepresentation

2192
02:45:03,880 --> 02:45:11,760
by former officials. These are not minor
issues. These are behaviors many would

2193
02:45:09,080 --> 02:45:16,840
consider aggressive, intimidating, and
harassing, yet none were investigated.

2194
02:45:15,040 --> 02:45:22,320
There are also serious concerns about
process. Multiple reports of harassment

2195
02:45:20,200 --> 02:45:27,960
from other citizens do not result in
police reports or investigations, which

2196
02:45:25,360 --> 02:45:32,920
raises legitimate concerns about
fairness and impartiality. At the same

2197
02:45:31,080 --> 02:45:36,320
time, serious
At the same time, serious written

2198
02:45:34,640 --> 02:45:41,520
complaints about conduct within the
administration, issues that directly

2199
02:45:39,000 --> 02:45:47,400
impact public trust, have not been
addressed with this level of urgency or

2200
02:45:44,320 --> 02:45:53,320
even any urgency at all. So, what has
changed? Why is this being pursued now

2201
02:45:50,840 --> 02:45:57,560
under a different standard? From the
outside, this doesn't look like

2202
02:45:55,080 --> 02:46:03,160
accountability. It looks like selective
enforcement or worse, retaliation. So,

2203
02:46:00,880 --> 02:46:08,680
the question is simple. Are standards
being applied fairly or are individuals

2204
02:46:06,040 --> 02:46:13,360
being targeted? Because Because of these
inconsistencies in enforcement, these

2205
02:46:11,200 --> 02:46:19,280
unanswered concerns, and the clear
questions about fairness and process, a

2206
02:46:16,480 --> 02:46:24,360
hearing for Trustee Mosley cannot move
forward in an incredible or impartial

2207
02:46:21,960 --> 02:46:24,360
way.

2208
02:46:30,680 --> 02:46:33,480
Trina Shuck.

2209
02:46:37,000 --> 02:46:44,760
So, back to the question, um what is the
standard being applied here?

2210
02:46:42,760 --> 02:46:48,680
And I'm saying this for public so that
it's on record.

2211
02:46:46,640 --> 02:46:53,960
The allegations against Trustee Roger
Mosley describe a raised voice,

2212
02:46:51,800 --> 02:46:59,680
an intimidating tone,
and pointing of a pen.

2213
02:46:57,000 --> 02:47:03,880
Those are not legal standards. Those are
descriptions.

2214
02:47:02,280 --> 02:47:08,760
I'm going to demonstrate something
briefly.

2215
02:47:05,880 --> 02:47:08,760
This is a pen.

2216
02:47:11,960 --> 02:47:17,800
The This pen is being emphasized
emphasized pointing at something.

2217
02:47:16,560 --> 02:47:21,680
Um
I can use it.

2218
02:47:19,880 --> 02:47:25,200
So, the question is
when does it become aggressive?

2219
02:47:26,000 --> 02:47:36,280
Is it the motion? Is it the perception?
And more importantly, what makes it that

2220
02:47:33,400 --> 02:47:36,280
gender-based?

2221
02:47:36,880 --> 02:47:43,840
Now, let's talk about tone.
If I say,

2222
02:47:41,280 --> 02:47:50,640
"Where's my application?"
versus "Where is my application?"

2223
02:47:46,800 --> 02:47:50,640
versus "Where is my application?"

2224
02:47:52,080 --> 02:48:01,880
So again, what is the standard?
Is there a defined decibel level?

2225
02:47:58,760 --> 02:48:05,720
And if so, what is it?
And if volume is the issue, what about

2226
02:48:04,520 --> 02:48:08,320
the individuals that are hearing
impaired?

2227
02:48:08,440 --> 02:48:12,000
Is their threshold higher?

2228
02:48:14,280 --> 02:48:22,800
Now, I want to address conduct already
in record involving Mr. Glenn Smith.

2229
02:48:20,640 --> 02:48:27,160
There is documented conduct where
gestures are used with the, you know,

2230
02:48:25,320 --> 02:48:32,480
slitting of the throat.
Um

2231
02:48:29,520 --> 02:48:37,080
of him not returning my sign.
Uh still not getting my sign returned

2232
02:48:34,440 --> 02:48:40,960
because I can't get a hold of the people
at the Awake the Lake.

2233
02:48:41,880 --> 02:48:47,800
So, the question is
was that evaluated under the same

2234
02:48:46,160 --> 02:48:51,640
standard?
Because if similar or more forceful

2235
02:48:49,640 --> 02:48:59,040
conduct is treated differently depending
on the individual,

2236
02:48:54,480 --> 02:48:59,040
then the issue is not conduct.

2237
02:49:01,000 --> 02:49:08,280
Without a divine standard,
there is no reliable basis for

2238
02:49:05,640 --> 02:49:08,280
conclusion.

2239
02:49:08,320 --> 02:49:15,800
And I don't believe
that that hearing should be held.

2240
02:49:13,360 --> 02:49:15,800
Thank you.

2241
02:49:23,440 --> 02:49:31,480
Okay, you've just heard about the lack
of a defined standard.

2242
02:49:28,280 --> 02:49:37,000
I want to address the legal basis.
This is not an employment lawsuit.

2243
02:49:34,800 --> 02:49:41,600
This [snorts] is a proceeding involving
an elected official.

2244
02:49:39,440 --> 02:49:47,000
Public statements refer for reference to
what was described as the power act,

2245
02:49:44,640 --> 02:49:50,240
but the written charges do not identify
the statute.

2246
02:49:48,640 --> 02:49:55,160
They do not
not define a legal standard.

2247
02:49:53,280 --> 02:49:59,280
If the intent was to reference the
Protecting Opportunities and Workers

2248
02:49:57,080 --> 02:50:05,560
Rights Act or the Colorado
Anti-Discrimination Act,

2249
02:50:01,880 --> 02:50:10,120
those laws govern employ employment
uh relationships.

2250
02:50:07,720 --> 02:50:16,480
They do not establish a legal basis for
removing an elected official.

2251
02:50:13,880 --> 02:50:20,560
So the question is kind of simple.
What law is being applied?

2252
02:50:20,600 --> 02:50:28,200
Due process requires a notice of the
allegations

2253
02:50:24,960 --> 02:50:32,960
and notice of a legal basis.
Here the legal theory appears to have

2254
02:50:30,080 --> 02:50:38,600
been introduced during a public meeting,
not in written charges.

2255
02:50:35,880 --> 02:50:43,920
A hearing is not meaningful if the legal
standard is revealed during the hearing

2256
02:50:41,040 --> 02:50:43,920
itself.

2257
02:50:44,320 --> 02:50:53,200
Without a clearly identified legal
basis, the process itself is not

2258
02:50:50,320 --> 02:50:53,200
reliable.

2259
02:50:57,920 --> 02:51:04,400
Jean Colletti
Jean Colletti, Palmer Lake

2260
02:51:08,960 --> 02:51:17,080
You've heard about the lack of defined
standard and the lack of clearly

2261
02:51:14,480 --> 02:51:21,840
identified legal basis.
I want to address consistency and

2262
02:51:19,120 --> 02:51:26,720
completeness of the process.
Because process is not just about what

2263
02:51:24,480 --> 02:51:31,320
is investigated,
it is also about what is not

2264
02:51:29,120 --> 02:51:35,960
investigated.
There were documented communications

2265
02:51:33,600 --> 02:51:41,160
already in public record raising
concerns about statements and

2266
02:51:37,680 --> 02:51:46,200
coordination involving third parties.
Trustee Otis Yeurka requested

2267
02:51:43,520 --> 02:51:50,960
investigation into these matters. That
investigation did not occur.

2268
02:51:52,360 --> 02:51:56,920
Yet this matter
is proceeding.

2269
02:51:57,440 --> 02:52:04,520
So the question becomes what is the
standard for deciding what is

2270
02:52:01,640 --> 02:52:08,880
investigated and what is not.
There is also the issue of authority and

2271
02:52:06,800 --> 02:52:14,480
completeness.
Communications were sent directly to

2272
02:52:10,800 --> 02:52:20,520
outside investigator, Employers Council,
asking on what stat- statutory authority

2273
02:52:18,440 --> 02:52:27,080
they were acting to investigate a
sitting elected official.

2274
02:52:23,680 --> 02:52:33,040
Those communications also informed them
that relevant information existed that

2275
02:52:29,880 --> 02:52:37,240
should be considered as part of any fair
and complete

2276
02:52:34,640 --> 02:52:37,240
review.

2277
02:52:39,040 --> 02:52:45,440
We were told there would be a response.
There was no response.

2278
02:52:47,240 --> 02:52:53,920
Follow-up communication was then sent to
Chief Executive Officer of the Board of

2279
02:52:52,200 --> 02:53:01,760
Employers Council
raising the same concerns.

2280
02:52:56,720 --> 02:53:01,760
That also received no response.

2281
02:53:02,080 --> 02:53:11,400
So again, we are left with no clearly
identified legal authority, no response

2282
02:53:08,400 --> 02:53:18,080
to questions about the authority, and no
indication that all relevant information

2283
02:53:15,120 --> 02:53:23,040
was considered.
That matters

2284
02:53:19,640 --> 02:53:27,320
because due process requires not just
a conclusion, but it

2285
02:53:24,880 --> 02:53:32,680
but a process that is complete,
transparent, and accountable.

2286
02:53:30,280 --> 02:53:39,680
And when questions about authority go
unanswered and relevant information is

2287
02:53:35,560 --> 02:53:45,720
not acknowledged or incorporated,
the reliability of that outcome

2288
02:53:42,920 --> 02:53:50,960
is called into question.
This is not simply a disagreement about

2289
02:53:48,840 --> 02:53:55,280
facts.
It is a question of whether the process

2290
02:53:52,920 --> 02:53:58,040
itself meets the basic standard of
fairness.

2291
02:54:03,400 --> 02:54:09,680
Your time is going to be up. And so, if
you can wrap it up

2292
02:54:06,720 --> 02:54:14,680
» Without a defined standard, without a
clearly identified legal basis, and

2293
02:54:12,520 --> 02:54:19,400
without consistent
and complete application,

2294
02:54:17,000 --> 02:54:23,120
there is no reliable or lawful
foundation for this proceeding.

2295
02:54:24,200 --> 02:54:31,200
This hearing must be canceled.
And I ask that these communications I'm

2296
02:54:28,800 --> 02:54:35,680
about to hand
Erica and one copy for the rest of you

2297
02:54:33,000 --> 02:54:39,400
to share, I would like for it to be a
part of the record.

2298
02:54:54,160 --> 02:55:00,600
Hi, I'm Debbie Hall
and I live at 20343 Kenneth Laner Drive

2299
02:54:58,800 --> 02:55:04,920
in Monument.
Good evening and thank you for the

2300
02:55:02,280 --> 02:55:08,840
opportunity to speak. I'm here tonight
as someone who loves this community.

2301
02:55:07,040 --> 02:55:12,480
I've lived here, worked here, and built
relationships here.

2302
02:55:10,760 --> 02:55:15,680
And it matters to me how we treat each
other.

2303
02:55:13,560 --> 02:55:19,200
Right now, I'm seeing division. I'm
seeing people hurting, people

2304
02:55:17,600 --> 02:55:23,440
frustrated,
people forming strong opinions,

2305
02:55:21,640 --> 02:55:29,160
and while concern should absolutely be
taken seriously, I believe we also have

2306
02:55:25,920 --> 02:55:33,840
a responsibility be fair and not rush to
judgment

2307
02:55:31,200 --> 02:55:37,800
before all the facts are known.
We are talking about our neighbors, real

2308
02:55:35,680 --> 02:55:42,160
people with lives, reputations, and
families.

2309
02:55:39,200 --> 02:55:46,720
And one of those people is Roger Mosley.
This man who served our country as

2310
02:55:43,920 --> 02:55:50,600
retired Air Force Colonel and a test
pilot on highly advanced aircraft. Like

2311
02:55:49,280 --> 02:55:55,400
he was the first one that flew the
stealth bomber.

2312
02:55:52,600 --> 02:56:02,120
I don't know if you guys know that. I uh
To me, you're like an astronaut, you

2313
02:55:57,680 --> 02:56:02,120
know? So, anyways, um

2314
02:56:02,760 --> 02:56:08,120
and
that kind of role doesn't happen by

2315
02:56:05,760 --> 02:56:12,200
accident. It requires discipline, sound
judgment, and integrity.

2316
02:56:10,520 --> 02:56:15,960
That doesn't mean anyone is above
accountability, but it does mean we

2317
02:56:14,120 --> 02:56:20,080
should approach a situation thoughtfully
and carefully, not based on assumptions

2318
02:56:18,280 --> 02:56:24,360
or emotion alone.
In the Bible, we are told to love our

2319
02:56:21,880 --> 02:56:27,120
neighbors as ourselves. And to me, that
means something especially in moments

2320
02:56:25,880 --> 02:56:31,840
like this,
when it's easy to divide and harder to

2321
02:56:29,880 --> 02:56:35,520
extend grace.
Loving your neighbor doesn't mean

2322
02:56:33,280 --> 02:56:40,400
ignoring concerns. It means we handle
them with fairness, truth, and respect

2323
02:56:38,240 --> 02:56:44,760
for one another's dignity.
I don't believe any of us here tonight

2324
02:56:42,560 --> 02:56:48,960
has the full picture. That's why it's
important we allow proper process to

2325
02:56:46,800 --> 02:56:53,680
take place and that we don't let the
situation turn into something that

2326
02:56:50,680 --> 02:56:57,120
damages our community beyond repair.
Because when this is over, we're still

2327
02:56:55,640 --> 02:57:01,240
neighbors.
We're still neighbors, you guys.

2328
02:56:59,560 --> 02:57:06,800
And I want to live in a community that
chooses respect over assumptions, truth

2329
02:57:03,440 --> 02:57:11,760
over reaction, and unity over division.
We can disagree and still choose to

2330
02:57:10,080 --> 02:57:14,360
treat each other well.
Thank you.

2331
02:57:23,640 --> 02:57:30,400
My name is Steve Draper and I live
Colorado Springs.

2332
02:57:28,440 --> 02:57:34,680
And this is Beau.
B E A U

2333
02:57:32,960 --> 02:57:36,800
Uh and I'd like to start with Andy
Rooney.

2334
02:57:35,080 --> 02:57:39,647
» Beau does not get an an additional 3
minutes.

2335
02:57:37,628 --> 02:57:39,647
» [laughter]

2336
02:57:39,760 --> 02:57:46,400
» Thank you, Dennis.
Uh I'd like to start with Andy Rooney, a

2337
02:57:43,800 --> 02:57:50,400
satirist of 60 Minutes fame. Do you all
know Andy Rooney?

2338
02:57:48,160 --> 02:57:56,240
Um said
the average dog is nicer than an average

2339
02:57:54,040 --> 02:58:00,320
person.
I'd like all of us to take Rooney's

2340
02:57:58,040 --> 02:58:06,080
comment to heart.
And my Beau, I think, actually is better

2341
02:58:03,960 --> 02:58:10,378
than average.
But I'm biased.

2342
02:58:07,960 --> 02:58:15,280
But as it relates to Roger,
>> [clears throat]

2343
02:58:10,960 --> 02:58:21,840
» uh Roger may not be a Beau,
Beau is better than average.

2344
02:58:18,560 --> 02:58:27,960
But he also is not an attack Doberman
or a vicious junkyard dog

2345
02:58:24,720 --> 02:58:32,840
or a mistreated pit bull ready to attack
at a moment's notice.

2346
02:58:30,280 --> 02:58:35,960
I'd put him somewhere between a poodle
and a German Shepherd.

2347
02:58:36,120 --> 02:58:41,600
As people may know,
uh poodles are known for their

2348
02:58:40,040 --> 02:58:46,080
smartness.
Roger is one of the smartest people I've

2349
02:58:43,520 --> 02:58:49,280
ever known and I've been friends with
many, many smart people throughout my

2350
02:58:48,160 --> 02:58:53,600
life.
So some of my buds are Princeton people,

2351
02:58:51,320 --> 02:58:58,240
Harvard people, etc.
Um but Roger is up there.

2352
02:58:56,600 --> 02:59:03,840
And in Roger's case, just a quick
example, I was lucky enough to be

2353
02:58:59,840 --> 02:59:07,880
invited to uh Roger and Marty's house
uh for a dinner. And even before I went

2354
02:59:06,480 --> 02:59:12,000
to the house,
uh he he was out piddling in an

2355
02:59:10,480 --> 02:59:16,960
Airstream,
you know, the little campers.

2356
02:59:14,320 --> 02:59:23,040
And so I got to go see him out in the
Airstream and I looked at the Airstream

2357
02:59:19,800 --> 02:59:30,520
and there were like electronic wire
harnesses hanging down, little diode

2358
02:59:27,400 --> 02:59:35,120
lighting things everywhere. I I felt
like he was actually trying to make the

2359
02:59:32,360 --> 02:59:39,200
damn thing fly.
And Roger, you should know they need

2360
02:59:36,760 --> 02:59:45,320
wings, right? For that Airstream to I
think so. I may be wrong.

2361
02:59:42,200 --> 02:59:48,720
Uh their house design, unbelievable.
Almost 100% solar energy sustainable,

2362
02:59:48,629 --> 02:59:53,600
» [clears throat]
>> efficient heated floors that sensed

2363
02:59:51,640 --> 02:59:59,320
uh the temperature, beautiful
architecture, incredible lighting,

2364
02:59:55,880 --> 03:00:04,120
amazing amazing art, all designed by
Roger and Marty.

2365
03:00:02,200 --> 03:00:07,000
At the other end,
we have the German Shepherds, as I

2366
03:00:05,600 --> 03:00:11,480
mentioned.
Task

2367
03:00:08,080 --> 03:00:16,720
driven, hard working, high energy,
get things done.

2368
03:00:13,960 --> 03:00:20,760
And yes, they bark a bit.
And I know Roger can bark. I've seen him

2369
03:00:19,280 --> 03:00:25,640
bark at
ex-attorney Krob

2370
03:00:23,120 --> 03:00:29,760
at an important crossroads in the Bucky
saga.

2371
03:00:26,960 --> 03:00:34,120
But Krob literally literally admitted he
had made mistakes.

2372
03:00:31,880 --> 03:00:39,160
But most importantly,
Roger apologized for his attack.

2373
03:00:38,000 --> 03:00:43,320
You know,
2 minutes later.

2374
03:00:41,160 --> 03:00:48,920
But I can't say if Roger ever barked at
me, I likely would have deserved it and

2375
03:00:46,120 --> 03:00:53,680
would have learned from it.
So being the part-time German Shepherd

2376
03:00:50,480 --> 03:00:57,400
that he is, Roger gets things done and
through adversity.

2377
03:00:55,280 --> 03:01:03,720
Roger would never tell you
uh this, but he faced the ultimate

2378
03:01:00,440 --> 03:01:09,400
adverse event in the Vietnam War when
flying a mission to Cambodia,

2379
03:01:07,280 --> 03:01:15,360
he actually was shot. His
and and had had um

2380
03:01:12,160 --> 03:01:21,640
uh had actually had a wound as well.
And he almost didn't make it. He he

2381
03:01:18,040 --> 03:01:25,480
flew over uh this large lake uh
and he literally [clears throat] said

2382
03:01:22,680 --> 03:01:31,360
that he was about to pass out, but he
but he raised his he he raised his hands

2383
03:01:28,800 --> 03:01:35,240
up and was almost flying the plane
underneath his hands.

2384
03:01:33,320 --> 03:01:41,360
But he was about to faint. Long story
short, he made it back to the base.

2385
03:01:38,440 --> 03:01:45,880
Um you know, he's he's simply
uh uh

2386
03:01:42,360 --> 03:01:50,240
is a bonafide hero. So Roger is very
smart,

2387
03:01:47,080 --> 03:01:57,040
very energetic, he gets things done with
a little bark, but certainly no bite.

2388
03:01:53,880 --> 03:02:00,320
He's a hero, at least to me,
and to Bo.

2389
03:02:18,880 --> 03:02:27,960
» Laurel Skau, Woodmoor, Colorado, and um
I also want to talk about Roger, but I

2390
03:02:25,680 --> 03:02:34,200
also want to tell let you know that you
have a gem here in

2391
03:02:30,560 --> 03:02:40,920
Palmer Lake. Um my hiking group on March
30 31st, we hiked with the uh or walked

2392
03:02:38,560 --> 03:02:47,000
the town with the Palmer Lake uh
Historic Society and Vail Museum uh

2393
03:02:44,440 --> 03:02:52,360
cohorts. And I just want to encourage
you all to um

2394
03:02:49,400 --> 03:02:58,880
visit the beautiful little Vail Museum
that's under the library. And uh they

2395
03:02:55,680 --> 03:03:04,280
have walking tours in pamphlet form, and
you can also arrange to have one. And

2396
03:03:01,240 --> 03:03:10,240
now I have a huge appreciation for every
photograph, the Rockland Hotel sign that

2397
03:03:08,000 --> 03:03:17,080
is all around us. So, uh
Palmer Lake is a gem, and uh I love that

2398
03:03:13,720 --> 03:03:19,760
they're part of this whole community.
Uh

2399
03:03:18,240 --> 03:03:26,120
and then I want to add my thoughts on
moving forward with codifying of the

2400
03:03:23,280 --> 03:03:31,320
existing ordinance is a codifying of a
staff hearing ordinance that is

2401
03:03:28,560 --> 03:03:37,320
absolutely seldom used because of the
complexity of becoming a true hearing

2402
03:03:34,200 --> 03:03:42,880
with examination and cross-examination
and all the real-life drama and

2403
03:03:39,560 --> 03:03:49,040
exposure. We are now that would Are we
prepared for that? That is And then the

2404
03:03:46,080 --> 03:03:54,400
necessary time Oh, look at that. Uh
necessary time that is required of your

2405
03:03:51,720 --> 03:04:00,280
new attorney to be putting all of his
time in this for something that the

2406
03:03:56,520 --> 03:04:06,880
genesis of was retaliation specifically
directed towards Roger Mosley.

2407
03:04:03,320 --> 03:04:10,880
Roger began his life of service in 1964
when he took his oath on the on the

2408
03:04:08,840 --> 03:04:16,480
completion of his basic training. He
graduated from the Air Force Academy in

2409
03:04:12,920 --> 03:04:22,120
1968 having spent time even then in the
area he now calls home here. And and he

2410
03:04:20,000 --> 03:04:26,600
went on to serve in roles overseeing
both people and complex projects for

2411
03:04:24,720 --> 03:04:31,520
more than two decades in the Air Force
followed by another 25 years in

2412
03:04:29,040 --> 03:04:34,960
government service. At one point as a
lieutenant colonel

2413
03:04:33,160 --> 03:04:40,280
Roger was placed in a position
overseeing three colonels. That does not

2414
03:04:37,640 --> 03:04:44,880
happen by accident. It happens because
of demonstrated judgment, capability,

2415
03:04:43,040 --> 03:04:49,840
and an ability to work effectively with
people. That was the stated reason he

2416
03:04:47,480 --> 03:04:55,440
was put in that position. His knowledge
and his skill sets working with other

2417
03:04:52,360 --> 03:05:00,680
people. Of all the course over the
course of a 45-year career managing

2418
03:04:57,960 --> 03:05:04,680
people and complex programs Roger built
something that cannot be created

2419
03:05:02,080 --> 03:05:10,560
overnight. Long-standing professional
relationships and continued respect from

2420
03:05:07,920 --> 03:05:14,320
the people he worked alongside both men
and women.

2421
03:05:11,960 --> 03:05:19,720
People who create toxic environments do
not spend decades in leadership roles,

2422
03:05:17,600 --> 03:05:24,800
do not continue to be trusted with
responsibility, and do not maintain

2423
03:05:22,560 --> 03:05:29,942
their strong relationships long after
their careers are over. Thank you.

2424
03:05:27,923 --> 03:05:29,942
» [applause]

2425
03:05:35,960 --> 03:05:39,040
» Is there any others?

2426
03:05:39,720 --> 03:05:46,120
Is this public comment or we just
referencing Roger or we talking about

2427
03:05:44,840 --> 03:05:48,883
everything?
>> Pardon me? Anything.

2428
03:05:47,560 --> 03:05:51,400
» Anything. Okay.
>> [laughter]

2429
03:05:49,440 --> 03:05:56,640
» Because I would certainly elevate Roger.
Roger, I've been sent some articles

2430
03:05:54,360 --> 03:06:01,680
about you that I didn't know long before
I supported you and um you have my

2431
03:05:58,640 --> 03:06:06,568
utmost admiration. But I will say to all
of you, Mr. Kent, you are a breath of

2432
03:06:04,160 --> 03:06:10,520
fresh air. Mr. Beeson,
>> [applause]

2433
03:06:07,600 --> 03:06:16,040
» I was um very disappointed when you were
not appointed initially when you first

2434
03:06:13,000 --> 03:06:20,720
um attempted to be a board of trustee,
but um I realized why that didn't happen

2435
03:06:18,920 --> 03:06:23,960
because you were so effective on the
planning commission.

2436
03:06:22,200 --> 03:06:29,040
And um
you did an amazing job back when we had

2437
03:06:26,720 --> 03:06:34,280
Buckey's here and I so appreciate your
leadership, your questioning, and I saw

2438
03:06:32,960 --> 03:06:38,880
um
if we're going to talk about outburst, I

2439
03:06:36,240 --> 03:06:44,000
saw outburst that night.
Beth, thank you for stepping up when um

2440
03:06:42,560 --> 03:06:50,080
when it was tough.
And you have um been open to neighbors

2441
03:06:47,920 --> 03:06:53,480
adjacent to Palmer Lake and I appreciate
that.

2442
03:06:52,280 --> 03:06:58,640
John,
thank you. I was there when um we did

2443
03:06:55,760 --> 03:07:04,320
the forum and your dedication to Palmer
Lake, your love of this area, and um I'm

2444
03:07:02,280 --> 03:07:10,400
I'm glad that you're seated here.
Otis, you were a lone warrior

2445
03:07:07,480 --> 03:07:16,600
for a long time and we appreciate your
dedication and your integrity.

2446
03:07:13,600 --> 03:07:22,600
Uh Roger, of course, um thank you for
your service to the United States and um

2447
03:07:20,280 --> 03:07:27,800
continuing to Palmer Lake.
And uh Mr. Beltran, um welcome. I

2448
03:07:26,040 --> 03:07:33,000
appreciate your level-headedness, you
guys ability to work together, not being

2449
03:07:30,120 --> 03:07:38,920
a think group, and um voting
independently. And as a neighbor

2450
03:07:35,960 --> 03:07:41,840
watching intently on what is happening
here,

2451
03:07:40,280 --> 03:07:46,680
I appreciate that.
And anyway,

2452
03:07:44,040 --> 03:07:52,120
I do not think that a hearing is
necessary either. And if we are going to

2453
03:07:48,760 --> 03:07:58,280
have a hearing based on outburst, based
on intimidation, based on intimidation

2454
03:07:55,200 --> 03:08:03,080
not just of us, but like um Mr. Mayor,
respectfully, you treat me and a couple

2455
03:08:00,840 --> 03:08:08,200
people much differently than you treat
others. And um that is not appreciated

2456
03:08:06,520 --> 03:08:13,320
and it's intimidating. And it's
intimidating when the chief of police is

2457
03:08:10,040 --> 03:08:19,040
acting as interim administrator. And
there are many women in here that will

2458
03:08:15,560 --> 03:08:25,560
not come through this town because we do
not feel safe because we see the

2459
03:08:21,360 --> 03:08:31,600
outburst and the um
uh the unevenness of personality and all

2460
03:08:29,320 --> 03:08:35,760
of your chief of police that is acting
as interim administrator and that is in

2461
03:08:34,160 --> 03:08:41,080
a public forum.
And I would not be comfortable. I come

2462
03:08:38,240 --> 03:08:44,440
just inside the city limits just
for my hairdresser. Oh, and Trina.

2463
03:08:44,425 --> 03:08:48,560
» [laughter]
>> But you know, once in a while. And I

2464
03:08:46,880 --> 03:08:52,240
think that should be taken seriously.
And we if we're going to apply the same

2465
03:08:50,360 --> 03:08:56,920
standard, we need to take a look at the
outburst that occur in this meeting and

2466
03:08:54,720 --> 03:09:01,400
how it makes others feel uncomfortable
to come to the town and come to the

2467
03:08:58,880 --> 03:09:06,640
meeting. But again, I'd like to end
positively and you guys are doing a

2468
03:09:02,960 --> 03:09:11,640
great job and we appreciate you. And um
thank you for all the time that it takes

2469
03:09:09,280 --> 03:09:15,000
to do your due diligence and I know that
you all do. Thank you.

2470
03:09:17,830 --> 03:09:19,850
» [applause]

2471
03:09:24,240 --> 03:09:30,880
» Seeing no other public comment,
um

2472
03:09:27,840 --> 03:09:35,000
we'll go on to board reports.
Um Tony?

2473
03:09:32,920 --> 03:09:39,720
Uh thank you, Mr. Mayor. It's come to my
attention that the uh parking lot over

2474
03:09:37,480 --> 03:09:43,480
on the west uh correction, east side of
Palmer Lake here.

2475
03:09:41,600 --> 03:09:48,160
Um
they put in a lab over there that uh is

2476
03:09:46,120 --> 03:09:51,760
obstructing the loading access area and
creating long lines that actually extend

2477
03:09:50,160 --> 03:09:55,640
into the road.
Um when people are standing there to use

2478
03:09:53,960 --> 03:09:58,880
them, I think that is a safety hazard
and they probably could have done it

2479
03:09:56,880 --> 03:10:02,640
better. I know that we don't own the
land, El Paso County does,

2480
03:10:00,960 --> 03:10:06,480
but I'd like to see this addressed
possibly before the next meeting. I'm

2481
03:10:04,840 --> 03:10:10,880
sure we can communicate with El Paso
County and a resolution to maybe have

2482
03:10:08,400 --> 03:10:15,400
them move that single lab into a place
where people don't line up and and are

2483
03:10:13,280 --> 03:10:20,040
actually in the drive-thru area. Thank
you. What What is it that they placed? A

2484
03:10:18,720 --> 03:10:22,920
uh laboratory, one of those mobile
laboratories. I can

2485
03:10:21,760 --> 03:10:26,400
» toilet.
Is that what they call them?

2486
03:10:23,760 --> 03:10:30,960
» Yes. Okay, thank you. I stand corrected.
>> understand what you said, but I call

2487
03:10:29,160 --> 03:10:34,960
them laboratories because, well, you
know.

2488
03:10:32,560 --> 03:10:39,280
Um
just as far as long as he's brought that

2489
03:10:37,200 --> 03:10:46,160
up, Chief, do we have any kind of update
on our negotiations with El Paso County?

2490
03:10:44,520 --> 03:10:51,000
We do not, but it's on the list. It's on
the priority list. All right.

2491
03:10:49,320 --> 03:10:53,960
Thank you, Mr. Mayor. You're welcome.
Roger.

2492
03:10:52,280 --> 03:10:59,800
Well, that was kind of hard to take, but
thank you very much. Um

2493
03:10:56,200 --> 03:11:04,120
I just one item for our clerk, uh just
to push a little harder on getting the

2494
03:11:02,240 --> 03:11:08,280
financial review
uh workshop and uh

2495
03:11:06,680 --> 03:11:11,680
we can uh detail what's going to go in
that workshop. But she's aware of it and

2496
03:11:09,880 --> 03:11:15,080
we we're we've been pushing for this for
some time, but

2497
03:11:13,640 --> 03:11:18,760
I guess I need a little bit more
direction because we've had the auditor

2498
03:11:17,040 --> 03:11:22,600
and then we scheduled a workshop or a
meeting with the auditor after and then

2499
03:11:20,480 --> 03:11:28,360
last workshop,
um it sounds like that didn't meet your

2500
03:11:25,600 --> 03:11:31,720
expectations pertaining to fiscal
stewardship.

2501
03:11:29,880 --> 03:11:35,680
Um and so
again, I know you speak to the water

2502
03:11:33,600 --> 03:11:39,120
enterprise. I guess if you could really
line out your questions,

2503
03:11:37,280 --> 03:11:43,600
» let me tell you what they are.
They're the resolution that requires the

2504
03:11:41,200 --> 03:11:47,440
bank statements. We're not doing that.
The idea that we've been told for 3

2505
03:11:45,560 --> 03:11:51,800
years we had one checking account and we
don't. We have at least two.

2506
03:11:49,720 --> 03:11:56,240
That we had one savings account. You
waved a piece of paper in a couple

2507
03:11:53,600 --> 03:12:00,160
meetings ago that showed or maybe it was
Christie, but it showed three or four

2508
03:11:58,120 --> 03:12:04,400
savings account. I would just like to
understand how all that works together,

2509
03:12:02,640 --> 03:12:08,040
but the most important thing is because
we pay for all of our bills with a

2510
03:12:05,920 --> 03:12:13,800
single check and some of those checks
involve both water enterprise

2511
03:12:10,480 --> 03:12:18,160
money and uh general fund money is that
once we do that, what is the mechanism

2512
03:12:15,960 --> 03:12:22,440
for tracking that and getting that
resolved? And you know, these are just

2513
03:12:20,240 --> 03:12:27,280
general questions. They're not hard, but
I would like to have a financial

2514
03:12:24,040 --> 03:12:31,440
workshop that shows how that all works.
Mr. Mosley, with all due respect, can

2515
03:12:29,080 --> 03:12:35,080
you maybe formulate those into an email
and send them to me? I'm not sure that

2516
03:12:32,800 --> 03:12:38,640
will entail a workshop, but I think in a
public I can set it in an agenda item

2517
03:12:36,840 --> 03:12:41,960
and get those answered again. Yeah, I'd
be glad. Thank you. I will do that.

2518
03:12:43,560 --> 03:12:49,240
I just want to add an item.
Um

2519
03:12:46,560 --> 03:12:52,640
probably everybody knows that Buc-ee's
made the news recently.

2520
03:12:52,960 --> 03:12:59,560
And one of my concerns is, you know, the
citizens probably like voted

2521
03:12:57,080 --> 03:13:03,880
overwhelmingly against Buc-ee's.
And it looks like they're still moving

2522
03:13:01,160 --> 03:13:07,360
forward through El Paso County.
Uh the town of Monument has taken a look

2523
03:13:05,560 --> 03:13:10,840
at what the impact that's going to be on
their town.

2524
03:13:08,960 --> 03:13:15,960
Uh there are some considerations we need
to consider. Public safety,

2525
03:13:13,360 --> 03:13:21,600
water, economic, property values, loss
of our dark sky.

2526
03:13:17,840 --> 03:13:25,360
And at some point I'd like the our board
to get together and figure out and work

2527
03:13:23,600 --> 03:13:30,920
with this town staff and
make some assessments of if it does

2528
03:13:27,600 --> 03:13:35,440
come, which it appears it might happen,
what's the impact in Palmer Lake?

2529
03:13:33,360 --> 03:13:39,600
And it's not something immediate, but
it's something that we I think we should

2530
03:13:37,040 --> 03:13:39,600
work on.

2531
03:13:41,840 --> 03:13:47,040
I believe he's asking us to add that to
the list.

2532
03:13:45,400 --> 03:13:50,840
Um I will
again, I'll definitely add it to the

2533
03:13:49,120 --> 03:13:55,000
list just to bring it to the board's
attention. We have special counsel

2534
03:13:52,920 --> 03:13:59,560
advising us on that matter fully before
we can take any type of I mean, if if

2535
03:13:57,920 --> 03:14:04,360
Yeah, okay.
Please assist cuz I know that

2536
03:14:02,280 --> 03:14:05,960
the town staff have some some state
water

2537
03:14:05,360 --> 03:14:11,400
and
public works, particularly fire and

2538
03:14:08,480 --> 03:14:15,760
public safety is is concerned like
case of wildfire, how's that going to

2539
03:14:13,640 --> 03:14:21,560
impact our evacuation cuz there's
27,000 cars on

2540
03:14:18,040 --> 03:14:21,560
you know, county line road.

2541
03:14:21,880 --> 03:14:26,760
You're asking for a resource impact
study. Okay.

2542
03:14:27,560 --> 03:14:32,920
I have nothing for tonight. Good.
Um

2543
03:14:33,040 --> 03:14:41,840
Uh as I mentioned last meeting, I
uh attended the PPRBD meeting uh last

2544
03:14:39,480 --> 03:14:44,920
Wednesday, not yesterday, but a week
ago.

2545
03:14:42,920 --> 03:14:48,320
And uh
they have been

2546
03:14:46,960 --> 03:14:52,320
um
they're one of the best in the state. I

2547
03:14:50,320 --> 03:14:57,640
I I'm a general contractor. I work
around the state. I have had to deal

2548
03:14:54,800 --> 03:15:03,200
with building departments in
Loveland, Fort Collins, Aurora, Green

2549
03:15:00,880 --> 03:15:09,400
Mountain Village, Centennial, Douglas
County, and um

2550
03:15:06,560 --> 03:15:13,880
our El Paso County Regional Building
Department is one of the best in the

2551
03:15:11,160 --> 03:15:18,000
state. So, just wanted to
give them kudos publicly.

2552
03:15:18,040 --> 03:15:24,360
Uh just want to amplify the Palmer Lake
open house celebration tomorrow.

2553
03:15:22,280 --> 03:15:28,240
Uh Palmer Lake Library will have lawn
games and so on on the green tomorrow.

2554
03:15:27,480 --> 03:15:31,360
Um
you know, encourage everybody to attend

2555
03:15:29,680 --> 03:15:35,720
if you can. You could also have an
opportunity to win a $75 gift card to

2556
03:15:33,240 --> 03:15:35,720
Culver's.

2557
03:15:36,640 --> 03:15:45,040
Um just two things. Um I attended
uh the historical society, and I don't

2558
03:15:42,720 --> 03:15:49,880
want to get the title wrong, so um it
was an excellent

2559
03:15:47,640 --> 03:15:55,240
presentation on how the expeditions of
Pike, Long, and the Spanish put Colorado

2560
03:15:53,200 --> 03:15:58,760
on the map. It was riveting and was
given by Mr. Wesley Brown right here. I

2561
03:15:57,680 --> 03:16:03,360
encourage everyone to go to the
historical society meetings. Get there

2562
03:16:01,080 --> 03:16:06,280
early. This place was packed.
And now I have an agenda item that I'd

2563
03:16:04,960 --> 03:16:13,440
like to add
a discussion and possible direction

2564
03:16:09,720 --> 03:16:17,320
to uh set firm priority lists
uh given

2565
03:16:14,960 --> 03:16:21,800
uh with our attorney relative to this
priority list that was given to us

2566
03:16:18,800 --> 03:16:27,720
tonight. What I'm asking for is that we
sort this out during next meeting, and

2567
03:16:24,760 --> 03:16:32,480
we sort it out in a final final matter,
1 through

2568
03:16:30,440 --> 03:16:35,080
33, just so we can work together and get
it done next meeting, so it doesn't drag

2569
03:16:34,280 --> 03:16:38,640
on.
Do I have a second?

2570
03:16:37,520 --> 03:16:43,920
No second?
I don't know that it needs to be a

2571
03:16:39,680 --> 03:16:49,840
motion. So, uh it's we've given you
you've given uh staff uh direction to

2572
03:16:47,680 --> 03:16:52,680
put it on next month's job agenda. Okay,
I was just

2573
03:16:50,880 --> 03:16:57,200
I'm confused because
staff reports require a second, so I'm

2574
03:16:54,520 --> 03:17:00,160
just trying to keep up.
I don't know what you're talking about,

2575
03:16:58,960 --> 03:17:03,880
personally.
Dennis, if if we're going to accept that

2576
03:17:02,280 --> 03:17:06,880
task, you think maybe we could start the
meeting a little earlier?

2577
03:17:08,480 --> 03:17:18,000
» Well, I don't know um Up to you.
Yeah, uh do we have a workshop next uh

2578
03:17:16,320 --> 03:17:20,880
do we have a workshop before next
meeting? So, no.

2579
03:17:19,760 --> 03:17:25,360
Thank you.
I I will make a suggestion, if you'll

2580
03:17:23,240 --> 03:17:29,720
let me, Mayor. Sure. I I think that
staff could probably work with the

2581
03:17:27,280 --> 03:17:32,760
attorney and give you perhaps the top
five

2582
03:17:30,880 --> 03:17:36,640
critical things that need to be
addressed both from

2583
03:17:35,360 --> 03:17:41,240
the residents perspective and the
attorneys perspective and the towns

2584
03:17:38,200 --> 03:17:45,000
perspective. I think there are probably
that many

2585
03:17:42,840 --> 03:17:49,920
that we could put on the top
that need to be addressed more urgently

2586
03:17:47,080 --> 03:17:54,280
than perhaps the other number ones.
I think that helps the process.

2587
03:17:51,760 --> 03:17:58,440
» that that's a good start and I think
that trying to address all 33 or

2588
03:17:57,080 --> 03:18:02,320
whatever
um

2589
03:17:59,840 --> 03:18:08,360
will tie us into knots actually. If we
can identify the top five or six

2590
03:18:05,240 --> 03:18:12,840
and go with that um I think that that's
going to be a great start. I concur.

2591
03:18:10,200 --> 03:18:12,840
Thank you, Chief.

2592
03:18:13,280 --> 03:18:18,720
Would it would it make sense for the
board members to send in their top five

2593
03:18:17,280 --> 03:18:21,680
choices?
Would that help anything? You can do

2594
03:18:20,680 --> 03:18:25,960
more. Uh
yeah, and

2595
03:18:23,320 --> 03:18:27,880
just just as my first impression is that
they've got all the information we

2596
03:18:27,480 --> 03:18:31,320
don't.
>> And I'll I'll take whatever input you'd

2597
03:18:29,520 --> 03:18:34,720
like to provide, but
the complexity of some of the land use

2598
03:18:33,280 --> 03:18:40,240
issues you may not know about on the
back end, that's all. Just there some of

2599
03:18:37,080 --> 03:18:44,440
them are more critical than others.
Very good.

2600
03:18:41,840 --> 03:18:44,440
Um

2601
03:18:44,600 --> 03:18:54,360
our next meeting will be the
What is it the Is it the

2602
03:18:49,680 --> 03:18:54,360
15th of May? Is that correct?

2603
03:18:54,880 --> 03:18:58,920
14th May
Yeah.

2604
03:18:59,040 --> 03:19:02,360
So um

2605
03:19:03,160 --> 03:19:08,040
and we've already discussed future
items, so

2606
03:19:06,640 --> 03:19:13,520
uh we're going to convene to an
executive session for the purpose

2607
03:19:09,680 --> 03:19:13,520
pursuant to CRS

2608
03:19:14,240 --> 03:19:20,840
in order to discuss a private property
offer to purchase certain town owned

2609
03:19:19,200 --> 03:19:26,200
property known as the El Faroque
property. Actually, that's uh a little

2610
03:19:23,920 --> 03:19:29,880
bit of a misnomer. It's portion of the
Elephant Rock property.

2611
03:19:28,040 --> 03:19:34,120
And to receive legal advice on this
offer from the town attorney and other

2612
03:19:31,520 --> 03:19:40,200
advice from the from town engaged
realtor, Greg Kaufman.

2613
03:19:38,000 --> 03:19:44,640
Uh once we um
are done with that executive session, we

2614
03:19:42,200 --> 03:19:48,880
will reconvene to open session. In the
meantime, we have to ask the public to

2615
03:19:47,600 --> 03:19:52,480
leave.
Thank you for your participation.

2616
03:19:52,640 --> 03:19:59,520
We will recess for 10 minutes prior to
going into executive session. Executive

2617
03:19:57,760 --> 03:20:02,040
session, I have a second. You got a
second.

2618
03:20:17,760 --> 03:20:20,480
Okay, thanks.

2619
03:20:23,920 --> 03:20:30,400
May I have
May I have quiet, please?

2620
03:20:45,200 --> 03:20:53,600
So, um
I failed to make a motion to move into

2621
03:20:50,760 --> 03:20:57,360
executive session. Is that correct?
So, I so move. Do I have a second?

2622
03:20:55,920 --> 03:21:02,800
» Second.
So, I have a motion and a second to move

2623
03:20:59,920 --> 03:21:09,040
into executive session. All in favor
>> Mr. Mayor, I You need to read the script

2624
03:21:06,000 --> 03:21:10,840
and cite the CRS statute. I already did
that.

2625
03:21:09,400 --> 03:21:13,480
» Did you? Okay. Yes, I did.
>> Okay.

2626
03:21:11,800 --> 03:21:18,240
Yes, I did.
Uh

2627
03:21:14,640 --> 03:21:21,720
opposed? There's none, opposed, so it uh
motion passes. We're moving into

2628
03:21:19,840 --> 03:21:24,600
executive session. Okay, and it's my
opinion that this does not need to be

2629
03:21:23,320 --> 03:21:27,800
recorded because it'll be
attorney-client privileged. Very good.

2630
03:21:26,960 --> 03:21:31,160
» Okay.
Do we leave executive

2631
03:21:30,360 --> 03:21:34,400
Sorry.
That's fine.

2632
03:21:32,880 --> 03:21:36,920
I'll make a motion to come out of
executive session, return to regular

2633
03:21:35,760 --> 03:21:40,680
session.
Second.

2634
03:21:37,880 --> 03:21:45,320
All in favor? Aye.
No opposed. We're out of executive

2635
03:21:42,800 --> 03:21:49,800
session.
So, Mike, in response to your question,

2636
03:21:47,760 --> 03:21:52,920
Thank you. um
uh

2637
03:21:50,600 --> 03:21:55,040
Susan Miner did
uh

2638
03:21:56,200 --> 03:22:02,240
complete her task and present
uh

2639
03:22:00,080 --> 03:22:06,120
uh that 100 and what did she say?
140-page

2640
03:22:04,160 --> 03:22:10,000
um
set of proposals for the Elephant Rock

2641
03:22:08,640 --> 03:22:13,720
property,
uh but it was all rejected by the then

2642
03:22:13,160 --> 03:22:17,240
board
>> Oh. in terms of

2643
03:22:15,720 --> 03:22:20,040
uh
uh

2644
03:22:18,600 --> 03:22:25,000
you know, there was mostly about the
cabins at the time,

2645
03:22:22,160 --> 03:22:30,400
and uh it was mostly about
uh

2646
03:22:26,120 --> 03:22:33,120
getting grants uh for and again, this
was we were still going to be the

2647
03:22:31,680 --> 03:22:36,320
landlord
and not sell. We were going to be

2648
03:22:34,920 --> 03:22:42,760
leasing.
And so, there was it wasn't necessarily

2649
03:22:39,800 --> 03:22:46,320
solid ground on which to move forward.
And uh

2650
03:22:44,160 --> 03:22:51,640
if you recall, we voted
something like six times

2651
03:22:49,160 --> 03:22:55,880
to tear down those cabins, and it kept
coming back up and coming back up

2652
03:22:54,200 --> 03:23:00,920
that we shouldn't do it and shouldn't do
it, and we we were gracious and listened

2653
03:22:58,800 --> 03:23:04,840
to the objections,
but every time the vote happened,

2654
03:23:03,200 --> 03:23:07,680
uh and eventually
uh

2655
03:23:05,640 --> 03:23:13,280
was settled that those cabins came down,
and therefore, most of her presentation

2656
03:23:10,680 --> 03:23:16,520
is moot in regards to that.
Um

2657
03:23:14,960 --> 03:23:22,840
and um
but I heard that presentation did

2658
03:23:19,680 --> 03:23:29,960
did include the public safety
uh acreage set aside. It did include the

2659
03:23:26,120 --> 03:23:34,680
eco spa. It did include parks and
things of that sort. So,

2660
03:23:32,240 --> 03:23:34,680
um

2661
03:23:34,880 --> 03:23:42,680
and I just would remind all of us that
yes, there was uh we do have master

2662
03:23:40,640 --> 03:23:48,920
plans and there was that
specific master plan for Elephant Rock,

2663
03:23:45,680 --> 03:23:53,800
but master plans are a guide and we are
not obligated to

2664
03:23:51,640 --> 03:23:59,360
um I mean, we need to be
um circumspect about what is in them and

2665
03:23:57,120 --> 03:24:04,920
and take those things fully into
consideration, but it's not

2666
03:24:02,720 --> 03:24:10,080
code that we have to follow. You know,
we have the option of

2667
03:24:08,080 --> 03:24:14,600
going outside coloring outside the
lines, if you will. Thank you very much,

2668
03:24:11,960 --> 03:24:17,760
Peter. I was I was on the advisory
committee. I worked with Susan on that.

2669
03:24:16,800 --> 03:24:22,240
Yeah.
And it's kind of a odd it's new point

2670
03:24:20,600 --> 03:24:27,320
what Susan bringing up because like you
said, the cabins were torn down and made

2671
03:24:25,040 --> 03:24:32,160
into an open space.
Uh there's discussion about the ball

2672
03:24:29,520 --> 03:24:36,040
baseball field becoming a a soccer field
or something like that.

2673
03:24:33,480 --> 03:24:40,640
And that's been tabled and
and Reed Weeks got involved and the

2674
03:24:38,200 --> 03:24:45,720
parks came up with a scheme
of modifying the back buildings and

2675
03:24:43,840 --> 03:24:48,200
it first started out where
uh

2676
03:24:46,480 --> 03:24:53,400
there were two
potential buyers back in the day. One to

2677
03:24:51,640 --> 03:24:55,360
take over the whole Elephant Rock
property.

2678
03:24:53,800 --> 03:24:59,680
» Actually, that was still in the under a
lease situation.

2679
03:24:56,840 --> 03:25:04,200
» Yeah, lease for 15 years, but they ran
into financing problems cuz if you can't

2680
03:25:02,440 --> 03:25:08,760
own the properties, it's tough to get
financing.

2681
03:25:05,840 --> 03:25:13,600
And then Cabrillo, which is a restaurant
in Springs, was going to take over the

2682
03:25:11,080 --> 03:25:17,640
main main building and make it into a
restaurant wedding venue type of thing.

2683
03:25:16,680 --> 03:25:20,480
And
they went away.

2684
03:25:19,360 --> 03:25:24,360
And then
the advisory committee came in and we

2685
03:25:22,000 --> 03:25:31,120
tried to we came up with some ideas on
how to make use of all the buildings and

2686
03:25:28,560 --> 03:25:35,160
as as Dennis mentioned, you know, like
the cabins that were

2687
03:25:33,360 --> 03:25:40,400
back and forth between there was the
arts group that wanted to make them into

2688
03:25:37,800 --> 03:25:44,920
artist centers and
and then the Rollins offered to take

2689
03:25:42,520 --> 03:25:49,240
over the cabins and
but then we got into asbestos mitigation

2690
03:25:47,800 --> 03:25:54,240
battles.
And I think the main building has the

2691
03:25:50,680 --> 03:25:59,480
same issue of asbestos in there, so
I'm kind of curious on the buyers for

2692
03:25:57,320 --> 03:26:03,880
the main building, which is that lot,
too.

2693
03:26:00,680 --> 03:26:08,680
is what they plan to do with that. And
And I know when it was Tim and Amy got

2694
03:26:06,440 --> 03:26:13,960
involved, it became kind of
before Glenn took over and

2695
03:26:11,040 --> 03:26:16,600
they made some stipulations like I think
with KCRE they were

2696
03:26:16,367 --> 03:26:21,840
» [clears throat]
>> a $50,000 commission provided they meet

2697
03:26:19,280 --> 03:26:26,320
this criteria. Right. That the town gets
at least a half a million dollars in

2698
03:26:24,200 --> 03:26:30,760
money somehow.
And the goal was not to have a church or

2699
03:26:29,240 --> 03:26:35,280
whatnot because there's no property
taxes or

2700
03:26:32,360 --> 03:26:39,080
sales tax. It's it's kind of a
it's a downer if you put a church in

2701
03:26:36,920 --> 03:26:42,120
there or a non-profit.
So they want to make a

2702
03:26:40,920 --> 03:26:45,440
there's some talk about making a
boutique hotel,

2703
03:26:44,160 --> 03:26:49,760
but
I'm you know, my biggest concern is that

2704
03:26:47,600 --> 03:26:55,120
building is
how many years now? It's four or five

2705
03:26:51,960 --> 03:26:58,520
years now since since we got it and
Well, it was in disrepair when it was

2706
03:26:56,720 --> 03:27:01,120
gifted to the town in the first place,
so

2707
03:26:58,840 --> 03:27:06,080
» Yeah, the roof has holes went and Yeah.
I think when we toured it one time we

2708
03:27:03,600 --> 03:27:10,240
there's a I think a couple pheasants
running around in there.

2709
03:27:08,960 --> 03:27:13,400
There's also some things with that
property that we need to keep in mind

2710
03:27:11,960 --> 03:27:18,920
moving forward and that's the setback
off of 105. It's a very large It's a I

2711
03:27:16,520 --> 03:27:22,680
think it's a 200-ft setback off the off
of 105. So, when you talk about when you

2712
03:27:21,240 --> 03:27:27,320
go in the gate and off to the right
where you would put a public safety

2713
03:27:24,320 --> 03:27:31,693
building, if you can imagine that 200 ft
off the roadway. Now, we might have to

2714
03:27:29,680 --> 03:27:33,960
ask ourselves for a variance
[clears throat]

2715
03:27:32,280 --> 03:27:38,120
to to change that, but you're you're
pushing everything back so far off the

2716
03:27:35,720 --> 03:27:41,600
road that those parcels when they get We
need to be aware that we subdivide that.

2717
03:27:39,720 --> 03:27:45,960
» Whose whose setback is that? That's the
setback off of 105 in the code. In our

2718
03:27:44,280 --> 03:27:49,080
code or in the state's code?
>> our code.

2719
03:27:47,240 --> 03:27:51,880
Um personally, I think that that should
be

2720
03:27:50,360 --> 03:27:54,680
uh looked at very seriously.
>> I I don't disagree, but it's just

2721
03:27:53,440 --> 03:27:58,320
something we want to keep in mind as
we're moving forward. Ask somebody in

2722
03:27:56,080 --> 03:28:01,320
the code. It's in the master plan. Yeah,
uh but I'll I'll look and see. I thought

2723
03:28:00,000 --> 03:28:04,120
it was in code when I looked at it, but
maybe it wasn't. No, Glenn, you're

2724
03:28:02,800 --> 03:28:07,600
correct cuz when I was on planning we
voted I didn't want 200, but the

2725
03:28:06,400 --> 03:28:10,720
majority wanted 200.
>> Yeah, it's it's the scenic byway thing

2726
03:28:09,360 --> 03:28:14,240
in the master plan.
But, it's also Yeah, we just need to be

2727
03:28:12,560 --> 03:28:18,800
aware of that as long as we go. Okay.
And Glenn, it's going to take forever to

2728
03:28:16,200 --> 03:28:23,240
get 105 to have deceleration lanes,
traffic counts.

2729
03:28:19,720 --> 03:28:26,840
» It is. So, that's going to be huge.
It is. Yeah. Well, there

2730
03:28:25,480 --> 03:28:30,800
Well, there It's already in the meeting.
>> depending on how much traffic you see.

2731
03:28:28,600 --> 03:28:33,960
If it's over 100 cars
or something like that, then you

2732
03:28:31,960 --> 03:28:37,840
wouldn't have to make it It is, but I do
remember

2733
03:28:35,560 --> 03:28:42,000
the conversation where we are already in
a we're already in a place where there

2734
03:28:39,760 --> 03:28:44,400
should be a deceleration lane. So, any
development whatsoever is going to

2735
03:28:43,200 --> 03:28:47,160
require it.
Um

2736
03:28:45,600 --> 03:28:50,920
how what that looks like, who pays for
it in the long run, and all that's

2737
03:28:49,040 --> 03:28:54,760
you know, whether you could ask CDOT to
hold off on that while you're developing

2738
03:28:52,640 --> 03:28:56,920
it and then everybody I don't know. I
have no idea what's going to happen with

2739
03:28:55,880 --> 03:29:00,360
that.
But, it's we're already there.

2740
03:28:58,520 --> 03:29:03,440
I mean you could put a
phone booth in there you're going to

2741
03:29:01,480 --> 03:29:08,080
need a deceleration lane. Yes, cuz it's
also too kind of pretty close to mission

2742
03:29:05,440 --> 03:29:10,200
training. Yeah, it is. Yeah. They're
reluctant to have two deceleration

2743
03:29:09,760 --> 03:29:12,600
lanes.
>> they are.

2744
03:29:16,720 --> 03:29:22,960
I believe that we need a motion to
adjourn.

2745
03:29:20,400 --> 03:29:25,880
Unless there's any other
comments.

2746
03:29:24,320 --> 03:29:30,360
You mean so what?
So what?

2747
03:29:27,000 --> 03:29:34,360
Yes. Is it Is it possible for them for
Is it Kay

2748
03:29:31,280 --> 03:29:38,480
Casey? Casey O'Reilly. Yeah, Casey
O'Reilly I mean the gentleman's name.

2749
03:29:36,160 --> 03:29:42,560
Greg Kaufman. Oh, Greg Kaufman.
Give us some idea of who the potential

2750
03:29:40,400 --> 03:29:48,160
buyers are.
I know some some of them there was NDAs.

2751
03:29:45,680 --> 03:29:48,160
Oh, okay.

2752
03:29:48,440 --> 03:29:55,040
It's just kind of a curiosity you know.
We'll find out soon enough actually, I

2753
03:29:52,720 --> 03:29:55,040
think.

2754
03:30:06,040 --> 03:30:11,720
I think it would help
make it a selling point.

2755
03:30:10,000 --> 03:30:15,200
These people are
touchy about Elephant Rock.

2756
03:30:17,600 --> 03:30:23,720
Yeah, it's kind of sad now we're six
votes to turn down the cabins.

2757
03:30:25,200 --> 03:30:30,510
They were trying to make it an art an
art district. Yeah.

2758
03:30:28,760 --> 03:30:33,400
And then you have I was wondering
[clears throat] if we resolved things

2759
03:30:31,720 --> 03:30:37,160
with three degrees cuz he's upset
because

2760
03:30:34,600 --> 03:30:42,480
he throws this resolution says he's get
full control of these parks and trails

2761
03:30:39,560 --> 03:30:47,440
and Yeah, well.
Uh another issue for another day and I

2762
03:30:44,480 --> 03:30:51,840
move to adjourn this meeting. Second.
All in favor. I. Opposed.

2763
03:30:49,840 --> 03:30:51,840
» I.

2764
03:30:51,880 --> 03:30:56,240
No No opposition, we are adjourned.