All right, welcome everyone.
Is that okay?
great. Um, I am calling the
regular meeting of the Rosstown Council
Wednesday, April 29th, 2026 to order.
Posting of the agenda and any changes to
the agenda. Town Manager Johnson.
>> Yes. Good evening, Mayor and Council
members. There is one change. I'm
requesting uh to pull agenda item 10C to
remove it from the agenda this evening,
and we'll be bringing it back to you at
your meeting on June 11th. This is the
uh contract with Marin IT for
information technology services.
Thank you. Item number three, disclosure
of expart communications on items where
the town council acts in an adjudicatory
or quasi judicial capacity. Any
disclosures?
Number four, open time for public
expression. This is limited to three
minutes per speaker for items that are
not on our agenda tonight. Is there
anyone in the chamber with public
comment? Yes. Step forward and use the
microphone and introduce yourself,
please.
Hi. Um Diane Rudden, I just wanted to
say
more.
>> Okay. Sorry. Um that today I went down
and went in Balloon Delights and was
once again delighted. Um I didn't
realize they started here in 1981
and then moved to their other location
for 40 years. So, I had heard some
negative things about them, but I think
it's wonderful to have a little
something in downtown Ross. So,
>> thank you.
>> Good evening. My name is Randy Dvodto.
I'm a longtime Kentfield resident and
member of St. Anselms Parish at 97 Shady
Lane in Ross. and I was asked to come
down tonight to simply inform the
council that our restoration of our bell
tower project construction has started.
Uh Cahill is our contractor. It will run
through the middle of November. It
involves replacement of the foundation,
the siding, the weather proofing, the
flashing and the roofing as well as
repairing leaking windows. and we've
made provisions for alternate parking,
noise compliance, and um and um
participation with all of the ROS
requirements for construction.
>> Thank you for sharing that.
>> You're welcome.
>> Anybody else in the chamber? Anyone
online for public comment?
No hands online. Mayor
Number five, presentation of
proclamation for retiring police chief
Rafllo Pada. Where are you, Chief Pota?
There you are.
I I want you up here.
>> Yes,
» Sid. If you want to come up too, you
may.
Okay.
So I am going to read a proclamation
honoring Chief Rafllo Pa upon his
retirement from the town of Ross,
California. Whereas Chief Rafllo Pa has
dedicated more than 42 years to public
safety, beginning his career as a fire
dispatcher and EMT in Marin County
before attending the police academy and
joining the Sanfell Police Department.
And whereas Chief Pota distinguished
himself over a remarkable career at the
Sanfell Police Department, rising from
patrol officer to lieutenant and serving
in roles including major crimes task
force detective, forensic artist,
hostage negotiation team commander, and
graduate of the FBI National Academy.
And whereas Chief Pada contributed to
landmark cases in Marin County,
including the first Marin County DNA
prosecution and assisted on the
investigation of
Exana Fairchild and Polyclass as a
forensic artist. And whereas following
his retirement from the San Rafale
Police Department in 2018, Chief Pota
continued serving the public as an
investigator for the Marin County
District Attorney's Office before being
appointed chief of the town of Ross
Police Department in 2021. Whereas, as
chief of police, Chief Pa provided
strong leadership to his team,
overseeing training and equipment
upgrades and hiring four officers to
ensure the long-term strength of the of
the department. And whereas Chief Pa
built meaningful connections with Ross
residents and the Ross school and was a
familiar and beloved presence at
community events including the Fourth of
July celebration, Halloween, Spring
Fling, and Live on the Common. And
whereas it is most fitting that the town
of Ross recognized Chief Pota's
extraordinary contributions and wish him
well in retirement. Now therefore, on
behalf of the town of Ross and the Ross
town council, I do by I do hereby honor
Chief Rafel Pota for his lifetime of
dedicated public service, his steadfast
leadership of the Ross Police
Department, and his genuine commitment
to making Ross a safe and welcoming
community for all who live here and
visit. Thank you.
>> Thank you.
if you'd like to say a few words. I know
we're having a party tomorrow from 9 to
10:30 at Marin Art and Garden, but if
you'd like to say a few words,
>> just just a couple things. First of all,
none of it possible without my wife Sid.
None of it possible without the team
here uh at the Ross Police Department,
the officers in the back of the room
here, and of course, absolutely none of
it possible without the town manager
support and your support. Um I didn't I
didn't do any of this stuff by myself.
You guys made it possible for me. So,
thank you so much. And then we'll talk
some more tomorrow.
Next is number six, the swearing in and
badge pinning of our new town of Ross
police chief, Raul Aguilar.
Chief Aguilar, where are you? There you
are. Come up, please.
Fantastic.
Good afternoon.
I Daryl Aguular
>> I Raul Aguar
>> do solemnly affirm that I will
>> do solemnly as affirm that I will
support
>> and defend the Constitution of the
United States
>> and defend the Constitution of the
United States
>> and the State of Cal
>> and the State of California
>> against all enemies foreign and domestic
that will that I will bear true faith
>> allegiance to the Constitution
>> and allegiance to the Constitution of
the United States
>> in the Constitution State of California
>> and the Constitution of the State of
California.
>> I take this obligation
>> that I take this obligation freely
>> without any mental reservation
>> or purpose of evasion
>> well and faithfully
>> that I will that I will well and
faithfully
>> discharge the duties upon which I am
about to enter.
>> discharge the duties upon which I'm
about to enter.
>> Thank you very much.
Welcome, Chief. We're so happy to have
you. If you want to say a few words, you
can.
>> Thank you very much. Um, I will keep it
brief. First of all, I want to thank um
the um town manager for um giving me uh
the trust to take on this endeavor. And
I also want to thank the members of the
council who have allowed me to uh you
know take this endeavor and follow in
the footsteps of Chief Pa who um I I'll
be honest, I think I'm definitely um you
know, it's a a big task, but I think I'm
ready to do it. Uh, and also I want to
thank especially Chief Pa for um, you
know, training me and guiding me along
the way. And there's also some other
mentors in the room that I definitely
want to mention. Um, Harry Barbier who
was one of my original training officers
back in 1999. Uh, and Chief Spieler who
was one of my mentors uh, on my final
years in San Rafale. So thank you very
much for uh, being here. Um I mean
there's so many of you here that I can't
really um thank everybody but if I may
just a couple more minutes uh I'm happy
to introduce uh excuse me I just want to
u recognize a couple people that are
here in the room with me. Uh my son uh
Captain Aguilar from the US Army. He can
he he had two deployments to the Middle
East uh a few years back. and also uh my
mom and my dad, Hovita and Raul. Uh and I also like to um you know, finally,
last but not least, my partner, the
person that I uh dream about all the
time, and I um you know, I'm getting a
little choked up, but uh Olivia, who is
my um my best friend,
Got it. Awesome. Thank you.
» Thank you very much.
» Item number seven is the mayor's report.
May is wildfire preparedness month. Fire
experts are concerned about March's
record-breaking heat that dried out fuel
months ahead of schedule in Marin and
across the western US. On March 20th,
Sanfell's temperature reached 92 degrees
Fahrenheit, shattering the previous
82°ree record in 1960. Thankfully, we
have received more rain in April, but
our extremely early and severe heat wave
means we need to continue to be prepared
for wildfires. Here are four easy steps.
Number one, Alert Marin. Is your
household signed up? Alert Marin
notifies residents during emergencies
like wildfires, flooding, or evacuations
with timely, clear, and accurate
information on what to do and where to
go. But more than more than 40% of Ross
households are not signed up for Alert
Marin. It only takes a couple of minutes. And
in my mayor's report, I have the website
to sign up. Number two, the Chipper Day
program for Marin Wildfire is now open
through November with free curbside
pickup and disposal of your yard's
excess vegetation. Take advantage of
this popular service by registering
online. Number three, Marin Community's
wildfire protection plan, C Community
Protection, Community Wildfire
Protection Plan, CWPP, will be presented
to the public at a free wildfire
preparedness forum this coming Saturday,
May 2nd, 9:30 a.m. to noon at the
Embassy Suites in San Rafale. Please
join Marin Wildfire, wildfire safety
leaders, local fire agencies, and
community partners to learn how Marin is
safer. And there's an online address
that you can go and learn more about.
Defensible space home inspections free
from marin wildfire are done every other
year in Ross. This year the inspections
will be done in Winship in the Winship
Park neighborhood. Dates will be coming
soon. Please walk with your inspector to
learn more and then open your report and
follow the recommended steps to prepare
your home and garden. If your home was
inspected last year, please continue to
address the issues that are identified
in your report.
Marin Master Gardener resources shared
with age friendly roughs. I became a
Marin Master Gardener in 2016 after 50
hours of training over a five-month
period and passing a final exam. This
year, Marin Master Gardener celebrates
its 40th anniversary, growing from eight
Marin Master Gardeners in 1986 to more
than 350 today. Each year, Marin Master
Gardeners provides more than $1.6
million in economic value to Marin
County through our voluntary services.
Earlier this month, I got to speak at
the age friendly Ross meeting, sharing
many of the free resources Marin Master
Gardeners offers to Marin Home
Gardeners. Please take advantage of
these by accessing them on the age
friendly Ross website. We've already
heard about the St. Anselm rebuild of
its bell tower. So, finally, the
citizens advisory committee presents
recommendations on town facilities.
Tonight, the council will receive the
committee's recommendations on our
nearly 100-year-old town facilities. We
thank the eight dedicated and talented
members for working nearly non-stop
since midFebruary to help address these
complex issues. Jeff Cune, Dan Weiny,
Bob Herps, Ed Dong, Bill Poland, Jeff
Kovick, Tom Gaffne, and Joey Buckingham.
And they're all here tonight. And thank
you so much for all your work.
I am hopeful that the committee's close
collaboration and stunning vision will
allow the town to turn the corner on
these issues and bring residents
together in support of our community,
town staff,
Ross police, and the Ross Valley
paramedics.
Thank you.
Next is council committee and liaison
reports. any reports?
>> So, the um the Ross Valley Paramedic
Board met and um as you know, the the
board has been looking into um making
writing up guidelines with the help of
their lawyer um Ben's wife uh to um
establish uh procedures for how the the
JPA works. The current guidelines date
from 40 years ago and consist of only
two pages and are very sketchy. Um the
proposed guidelines will be brought to
each council uh for consideration and
approval. uh one is since there are a
number of different uh elements um uh if
you I suppose the most important are the
process of amending the agreement and
the process of terminating the agreement
because this is a contract between eight
entities you know agencies um those have
to be unanimous decisions but the count
the board itself can decide whether a
vote to discuss an amendment with the
agencies can be a threequarters vote or
a twothirds vote of the board or a
unanimous vote. And when it comes to our
uh council to discuss um that's one of
the things that I'll suggest we take a
look at. Um for example, it should if if
a majority of the council wants to
consider an amen majority of the board
wants to consider an amendment, is that
enough for it to go out to the agency so
that each agency discusses it? Um so
that will be probably at our next
meeting because they're hoping to have
this done um uh fairly soon. Uh, one
thing that was not discussed was uh the
lease and just at you know an hour ago
there was um information in our uh
packet online that said that the Ross
Valley Paramedic Authority president is
either opposed or concerned about the plan that we are about to hear from
the um citizens advisory committee. Uh,
and in his email to Julie, he cited a
number of reasons why he thinks that
plan does not fit with the lease that
was agreed to. Again, this was not has
not been discussed at the paramedic
authority. And this letter is from a
single board member who may or may not
have discussed it with his agency,
Sleepy Hollow, but it hasn't been
discussed with the board or with the
board's agencies. So, I just wanted to
mention that that though there's that
letter in that was just added to the
packet that was not a topic at the most
recent paramedic authority meeting.
>> Anybody else?
>> Matt. So I serve as an alternate for
Marin Clean Energy MCE and I don't know
if Bill has any comments but I wanted to
share that there's been s you know
serious problems at MCE that have been
covered in the Marin J thankfully and
the latest is a misappropriation of
$60,000
of MCE's funds into the CEO's personal
salary from 2024 that was discovered.
So, I just wanted to make sure that the
council's aware of of the that the
problems continue at MCE. They they have
not been abated and um I think we should
all be, you know, we're part of this JPA
and all of our towns people are opted in
automatically. So, we should just keep
apprised of of the issues there and
hopefully uh obviously Bill's
representing us, but the the reforms
hopefully will be coming. and if he has
anything to add as well.
I This is an issue that um is one that
um
I I I'm sorry I I can't really I can't
really go into it because I can't
divulge certain information that at this
point is confidential but will probably
become public. But I think we can verify
that this amount of money went into
it was it was for a a pension
contribution, wasn't it? No, I'm sorry.
It wasn't the pension contribution. It
was it was something else and uh
something was not correctly calculated.
Exactly. Who was uh responsible for
that? I think it remains to be
determined.
I just wanted to share that on Sunday at
the Marin Civic Center, I attended the
youth town hall and participated as a
panel with the 10 other mayors from
Marin County. Um, and it was very
enlightening. um partly because the
students asked us lots of detailed,
thoughtful, forward-looking questions.
And it was also really illuminating to
hear from each of the other mayors their
background and their passion and why
they are serving um their towns. So, I'm
going to pass around a little thank you
note that they gave me. I also got a
brownie, but I ate it.
All right. Staff and community reports.
Um, anyone here from RPOA?
Mr. Cooblick.
» Yes. Uh, I'm Jeff Cooblick. I'm the
president of the Ross Property Owners
Association. And first of all, would
like to thank the town council and our
town manager, Christa, and all of you
who are members who have contributed to
the RPOA. Without your funding, we
wouldn't in support uh we wouldn't be
able to do the activities that we do. Uh
quick recap, we had a terrific uh spring
fling at the Ross School uh just a few
weeks ago. About 300 people attended.
They had an Easter egg hunt and they had
lots of jumpy toys and the kids all had
a lot of fun. So, we were happy to help
sponsor that through the Ross Auxiliary.
Uh some of you may have attended the
live on the commons which was uh very
well attended almost 2,000 people and we
want to thank the town for your support
on that project. It was a little bit
more than we expected. We're going to
try and tone it down in the future in
terms of our promotion so we don't have
quite as many people so it's not a issue
for the town. Um our biggest project
right now is we're replacing the
50-year-old fluorescent lights in the
post office and with some beautiful
hanging antique pendant lights uh to try
and match some of the other town
historic town properties and I think
you'll see a huge improvement in that.
We have the the pendant lights in. They
cost $1,200 each. Uh they're really
beautiful. And uh we've got the
electricians lined up with Richard's
help and Anony's help. And we uh we're
just waiting for some other parts. And
you should see some activity there in
the next certainly next few weeks, next
month. So that's about the update for
now.
>> Thank you, Jeff.
T Manager Johnson.
Yes. Thank you, Mayor. Um we are
starting to see uh the impact of the of
the war um with higher oil prices are um
negatively impacting bids on recent
paving projects. We're also spending
more on gas for police patrol cars and
the Ross Valley Fire Department is
spending more to fuel its engines. Um
but in more positive news, um staff
learned that after a few days related to
birds that the new pedestrian bridges in
Natalie Coffen Green Park should be
installed by summertime. So that'll be,
I'm sure, well received by folks that
use them and um a lot of our our um
recreation programs that that utilize
that area. The Sir Francis Drake paving
project between Bolinus Avenue and El
Camino Bueno is scheduled to start after
Ross School gets out for the summer and
it will require one lane traffic control
for approximately two weeks. So, please
mark your calendars and plan
accordingly,
maybe to be out of town.
Um, I'm happy to report that our new
building inspector 2, Matt Taya, starts
on May 18th. It's taken a full year to
recruit for that position. So, we're
really excited to uh welcome him um onto
the team. Uh the Marin County Flood
Control District is holding two upcoming
community meetings to discuss the future
of flood control efforts in Ross Valley
along the Cord Madera Creek. The first
will be held on Thursday, May 7th, 6:30
p.m. to 8:30 p p.m. at Marin Catholic.
And on Wednesday, May 20th, same time,
6:30 p.m. to 8:30 p.m., it will be held
here at Magic. And finally, I'd like to
say that it has been a pleasure to work
with our talented Chief Pota over these
past 4 and a half years. in behalf of
the entire town uh staff team, you will
be missed and we wish you the very best
in your well-deserved retirement.
Thank you. Number 10, consent agenda,
which is um we have removed item C from
the consent agenda. So, it's A, B, D, E,
F, G. Um does any member of the public
wish to remove an item from the consent
agenda?
Anybody online?
>> No one online. Mayor,
>> any council member? Matt,
>> I'd like to remove 10G.
>> 10G, which is the fiscal year 2526,
third quarter, 9month financial summary
report. Okay. Um, could I please have a
motion to approve consent agenda items
A, B, D, E, and F?
>> So moved.
>> Second.
Council member Dalling,
>> yes.
>> Council member Kercher,
>> I.
>> Council member Salter,
>> I.
>> Mayor Prom Robbins,
>> I.
>> Mayor McKelen,
>> yes. Thank you.
>> Motion passes unanimously.
>> Thank you. Um, Matt, you ped item 10g.
» Sorry. I don't know if you want to
present anything from the quarter. Um I for for me I I I I I just want to
point out that we have yet again almost
a million dollar positive variance. So I
believe last year we ended the year with
1.4 million surplus. Right now as of
nine months into this next fiscal year
it's almost a million dollar surplus. So
I I read the caveats. I know that those
variances are moved from time to time,
but I I just I think it's important we
let the town know number one that you're
doing an excellent job managing the
budget and that we consistently are in
surplus since I've been on this council
and I'm sure the longer tenur council
members can. But when we talk about
costs and and budgets, etc., It's nice
to see that the actual performance as we
review it is showing very positive
surpluses of substantial amounts.
» Christa, do you want to make any
comments or no?
>> No.
>> Thank you for your kind words.
>> Yeah.
>> Any discussion? Any public comment on
this item?
>> Just just one from from the the
discussion point of view for us. I think
what we should try to I know we we're
trying to meet as a finance committee
but review this in the audit just as a
normal part of before it has to get to
the council and I see a lot of times we
put these items on consent but they're
very important. I think they're one of
the most important things we review is
the financials. I think we're so
fortunate because we're always in
surplus and doing so well, but we should
try to for me I think it'd be nice not
to be on consent and spend a little time
talking about the financial picture
outside of just the budget workshop.
Thanks.
>> Any online public comment?
>> No raised hands, mayor.
>> Okay. So, we'll bring it back and any
further discussion.
Could we please have a motion to approve
item 10G?
So moved.
>> I'll second.
» Council member Dalling.
>> Yes.
>> Council member Kercher.
>> I.
>> Council member Salter.
>> I.
>> Mayor Prom Robbins.
>> I.
>> Mayor McKelen.
>> Yes.
>> Passes 50.
>> Thank you. That's the end of the consent
agenda. So now we're moving on to public
hearing on planning projects part one.
A is the town council to consider 12
Garden Road demolition permit and
adoption of resolution number 2621
approving the project subject to
conditions. Robera,
>> good evening mayor and council members.
So this item
» Oh, are you gonna
>> I have to recuse myself from this item
because I'm within the 500 ft of the
project.
Thank you, Council Member Selter.
Okay. Good evening, Mayor and Council
members. This item is a request for
approval of an afterthe-ffect demolition
permit at 12 Garden. On February 10th,
2026, town staff issued a stop work
order upon discovery that the existing
single family residence had been
demolished. This did happen because the
contractor found extensive uh wood rot
on the structure. Um on April 4th, 2024,
so about two years ago, the council did
approve a project for this residence. It
was a remodel and expansion of the
existing single family residence,
including a second story addition and an
attached rent restricted ADU. There are
no changes to the previously approved
project. Um, and this is before you
tonight because the demolition permit
wasn't requested or approved in 2024.
And based on the zoning code, um, a
demolition permit is required
to be approved by the Ross Town Council
for the demolition of any dwelling in
the town. So tonight, the action before
the council is to consider approval of
the demolition permit subject to
findings and conditions as outlined in
your resolution. staff is available to
answer any questions and the applicant
is also present as well for any
questions. Thank you.
>> Question
I move we approve resolution 2621.
>> Second.
» Council member Deli.
>> Yes.
>> Council member Kercher.
>> Hi.
>> Council member Robin or Mayor Sam
Robbins.
>> Yes.
>> Mayor McKillen.
Motion passes 401.
Mayor, should we wait for Council Member
Salter to return? You're welcome.
Okay, Matt, we almost started without
you, but our new town clerk reminded me
that we needed to get So, we're going on
to item 11B. Town council to consider
230 Wellington Avenue design review,
demolition permit, hillside lot permit,
nonconformity permit, variance, and
adoption of resolution number 2622
approving the project subject to
conditions. Robera, good evening, mayor
and council members. The item before you
this evening is the application for 230
Wellington Avenue, which requests town
council approval of several
discretionary planning entitlements
associated with a residential
development project. The applicant
proposes to demolish the existing single
family residence and construct a new
two-story single family home with an
ADU. The application includes requests
for design review, a demolition permit,
a nonconformity permit, a hillside lot
permit, and a variance. Each of these
approvals require specific findings
which are included in detail in your
resolution. The proposed residence
features materials including a standing
sea metal roof, light beige hardy laps
siding, vertical cedar accents, black
aluminum windows and exterior doors, and
a bronze metal fascia along the roof
line. The project also includes a
detached twocar garage and a parking pad
at the front of the lot, as well as a
trash enclosure located adjacent to the
garage. The outside living space
consists of a patio, trellis, and then a
swimming pool and landscaping. There's
also a second story deck off the primary
bedroom that wraps around the north and
west sides of the room and has uh glass
guard rails. So, the project was
reviewed by planning staff for zoning
consistency. And then the advisory
design review group reviewed the project
three times last year. And during their
last meeting last month in March for
consistency with the town's uh design
review guidelines, they considered um
key considerations included neighborhood
compatibility, building mass and scale,
and then privacy for adjacent
properties. And based on this, staff
drafted the required findings for all
requested entitlements subject to
conditional approval. The project
qualifies for a SQA exemption as
identified in the staff report. The
demolition and reconstruction of a
single family residence would not result
in any significant environmental
impacts. And so in conclusion, staff
recommends that the council consider the
approval of design review, the
demolition permit, nonconformity permit,
hillside lot permit, and variance, adopt
the resolution making the required
findings, and approve the project
subject to conditions. That concludes my
presentation, and I'm happy to answer
any questions, and the applicant is also
here for any questions the council might
have.
>> Questions?
Yes, Elizabeth. Um there was a similar
um elevated or you know parking pad
built on a hillside on Upper Toy. Um did
that one uh also uh request a variance
for additional F?
>> Um that one I don't think requested F
variance. They ex they requested a
variance for the location
because the parking pad was within the
setbacks.
In this case, the variance is for the
twocar garage.
Um and then the setbacks
and
the part the ele the the parking that's
on the that's elevated that's the pad or
that's the garage.
So the way the topography of the lot
sits, it would actually meet the front
of the road on Wellington, but the lot
slopes down.
>> So you will see um
see it elevated, I suppose, from the
home, not necessarily from the street.
>> And is the garage being rebuilt in the
same location or is that being is that
what's being built on the stilts?
It will be elevated. It's
>> okay.
>> Roughly in the same location, but what's
there now is a carport. And this would
be a twocar closed garage.
>> Okay.
» Motion.
>> No, no, no, not yet. I um Is there a
president to allow 520 extra square feet
per the hillside lot ordinance on a
project like this? Could Could you help
us defend that?
I'm trying to think of when F has been
granted. I know there was one I believe
on Allen and they had an entry
that um required
going upstairs and so they were allowed
F so that their entryway could be made
safer. I suppose in this case,
uh, they are looking for that variance
because the parking on Wellington is so
constrained. Um, also the way the
topography of the lot is sitting, um,
they're really wanting to absorb the
parking that they would need and not
have it on the street.
So the the the garage in essence, which
is the extra square feet, is helping to
move cars off the private road and
making the access safer for emergency
vehicles.
>> That's correct. And the ADR did discuss
this and reviewed it and came to the
conclusion that they would support the
garage for those reasons.
>> Okay. Thank you. Um any public comment
on this item,
>> Julie? Oh, sorry, Bill.
>> Just just so I understand, there there
is a carport there now, correct? And the
garage will replace essentially replace
the carport. Is the garage larger than
the carport was?
>> Yes.
>> By how much?
>> Um, the carport is a onecar garage, so
it might be maybe about 200 square feet.
And the garage would be for two cars and
some storage, so it's 520 square feet.
Okay.
>> Thank you.
Public comment on this item.
Anybody online?
>> No one online. Mayor,
>> thank you. Does the applicant wish to
make a statement or the applicant's
architect?
Thank you. All right, we'll bring it
back for discussion. Any discussion or a
motion? Matt,
>> I I just wanted to say we we looked at
the hillside lot or ordinance is very
tricky for us, but I think the other
ones we looked at whenever we were
trying to take parking off the street
and leave the access for for cars, we
seem to all agree that's a really worthy
goal and I support that for this reason.
And the as as we keep seeing like even
emails that we're getting about when
there's rain and the stuff that falls on
the roads like trying to keep the roads
clear should be a goal and if this
continues to come up I hope I know
you've been keeping a list of like
reforms but it might be one we think
about in terms of like trying to add
something to the hillside lot that if
it's a a parking situation that we sort
of want to try to keep the roads as
clear as possible and there's some
exception for that as opposed to it
always having to be a variance if that's
if we all agree on that. I just wanted
to throw that out there.
>> Any other discussion, Bill?
>> Yeah, just following up on what Matt
said. I'm I I have the same inclination
if it's a parking issue and keeping cars
off the street, which is a safety
measure really and particularly for a
very difficult street like Wellington. I
mean, that is challenging just to drive
up, let alone uh well, walk up or find a
place to park. So, um, I I think this is
okay. Most of the increase is a garage
that's in place of a structure that's
there, but doesn't count, as I
understand it, towards the square
footage, a carport. And I think there
are a few other things, some a deck and
so forth. But it's not as if the
resident is building some huge mansion
that we're concerned about in the hills.
That that is not happening here. So, I I
would support this project.
>> Mayor, I'm so sorry. We have a couple
hands up, but that could wait until
after your comments.
>> Yes.
>> Um, I think we already closed the public
comment period.
» I think I did, but I'll be nice. Go
ahead.
>> Uh, Charlie, you could go ahead.
» Charlie, you're on mute.
» Leo, can you hear me?
Yes, we can hear you.
>> Um, so my only comment would be that I
would want to make sure that the it is
used as a garage and that it's not at
some point converted to an exercise room
or every anything. So, if you could put
that stipulation in.
» Charlie, can we get your first and last
name, please?
>> Charles Goodman.
Thank you, Charlie. Anybody else online?
>> It's uh Carla Buchanan.
» Hi there.
Can you hear me?
>> Yeah. Hi, Carla.
>> Hi. Um, so I'm a neighbor uh at 210
Wellington. And I just wanted to add
that the other two neighbors, three
actually, are all very much in favor of
the garage that's planned and the
demolition of the um the garage that's
there that is quite rickety and pretty
much an eyesore that blocks the view.
And as you're all pointing out, the
parking situation and especially for
emergency vehicles is really really
difficult on this culde-sac. So the
garage that um the barriers are
proposing would be a huge improvement
and frankly a relief as well.
Thank you, Carla.
All right. Um I assume the applicant
still has nothing that they want to add.
Okay. Thank you. Um any further
discussion?
I is it possible to add a um restriction
or a provision that the garage be used
for um storing car vehicles?
>> Um
there would be no way to check up on
that or enforce that if someone say
wanted to use storage or maybe they just
used it for one car. Um what I will say
is included in what they're proposing is
a twocar garage and a parking pad. So,
there is always going to be a space for
a driveway for them to park there. And
um hopefully they'll use the two-car
garage. I think they will. There's no
reason why they wouldn't, but we
wouldn't be able to, you know, limit
that use for parking only. We can't uh
make them park there.
>> But we could have it as a provision even
though we can't realistically enforce
it. Is that correct?
Um, Ben, what would the provision say?
» Oh,
I think right now we have a condition of
approval that incorporates their design
which says it's a garage. So, the
condition of approval already requires
it to be a garage. So, if they violate
that condition, you can already bring an
enforcement action if they're not using
it for a garage purpose. The reason why
you can't have a direct uh condition of
approval saying you know you have to
park there all the time. There might be
instances where you um you know
different if in the future they want to
build an ADU or something similar to
that. There's certain state laws that
would not we would be unable to enforce
that condition of approval.
I'd like to make a motion uh that we
adopt resolution number 2622 approving
the project.
» Second.
» Council member Deli.
>> Yes.
>> Council member Kercher.
>> Hi.
>> Council member Salter.
>> I.
>> Mayor Prom Robbins.
>> I.
>> Mayor McKillan.
>> Yes. Motion passes 5-0.
>> Thank you.
» Item number We're moving to the
administrative agenda now. Item number
12, town council to receive a
presentation from the citizens advisory
committee regarding revising the
facility master plan and provide
direction to staff regarding information
council needs to proceed with
considering any amendments to the
facility master plan.
Christa, are you kicking this off?
» This is um a uh this is not coming from
staff. This is from our um citizens
group, a citizens advisory group.
>> Okay.
>> And um
>> okay, we're going to take a fivem minute
break then and we'll resume at 5 minutes
to 7. Thank you.
University.
Sounds very
It's amazing.
Yes.
Okay, we are ready to resume with item
number 12 on our administrative agenda.
Jeff and Dan
Um, so I will read it
um out loud and then uh you can ask
questions. I think all of you have hard
copies up there. Good.
So since we got approval to form this
committee in early February I think it
was so you know call it two plus months
ago. Um we've met at least a dozen times
and have worked on all kinds of stuff
here. Everything from finance to
architecture to I mean you name it. Um
and this group has been great. There are
eight names here. you should know. Um,
and they meet all kinds of uh, I don't
know, backgrounds and skills.
So, there are eight of us who in this
committee who have a combined um, 300
years of professional experience in
finance and real estate design,
construction and development.
Our project design is prepared for us by
Dan Weiny of worldrenowned architecture
firm Gendler Associates. This is Mr.
whiney.
The committee has been meeting twice
weekly for over two months to develop
and refine a plan and this has included
a deep dive into the town's existing
town center master plan in order to
ensure our plan meets all the
programmatic needs identified by the
town.
Additional areas of research and
analysis have included bond issuance,
ESA compliance,
historic preservation, emergency
services and procedures.
Should the town vote to accept our plan,
the ad hoc committee is prepared to
assist
town council and staff in a full
implementation of the plan all the way
from public advocacy of a bond finance
measure to final completion of project
construction.
The committee was purposely comprised of
community members both for and against
the closure of the Ross firehouse.
We have unanimously coalesed around the
Gendler plan which preserves our
historic town architecture in a
cost-effective and environmentally
sensitive manner while providing
sufficient space to t to house all town
administrative and public safety needs
including police, paramedic and fire.
Excuse me. The ad hoc committee strongly
recommends that the town council adopt
our plan as a new town center facilities
master plan and hires an architectural
engineering firm ASAP to start
implementing this plan with a goal of
placing the project finance bond measure
on the November 26 ballot.
We don't have much time.
So, I'm gonna turn it over now to to
Dan. And
>> so, Joey Joey and I are going to present
you
son. So, Joey and I are going to present
some ideas to you today. Um, but just
maybe a couple of opening comments. When
I was first asked to be on this
committee, I was a little bit reticent.
their passions were flying in the last
meeting and and I thought, boy, you
know, what am I going to get into here?
And all I can tell you is that this team
has really been extraordinary. I've
worked with a lot of people in my life,
a lot of really smart, talented people,
and this team is one of the best that
I've been part of. Um, I'm proud to be a
Ross resident, and it is not a Gensler
plan. I know it says Gensler on there.
It's our plan. This is something that we
worked on together. So, Uh, with that
said, I think the the last comment is
that,
you know, the the buildings that we have
here have been with us for over a
hundred years, close to a hundred years,
and they've served us well. And I think
that what we've got to keep in mind
moving forward, regardless of what we
do, is that, you know, these buildings,
whatever we do, has to stand the test of
time. It's got to be something that yes,
it meets all the needs that we have
right now, all the requirements, but it
also has the ability to change and and
that's a big task and that's a big
order. But, you know, I believe firmly
that's where, you know, we need to take
it.
» Thank you first of all for your time
tonight and for all of the time that
you've poured into this subject and this
issue. It's we're all here for the same
reason. We all love this town and as Dan
said, we worked very well together to
come up with this design that meets a
lot of needs and it preserves
optionality
for us going forward. Uh our goal was to
design and construct a facility that is
agile, adaptable, and will serve
changing needs over time. I think it's
really important to consider this a
legacy that we leave behind for the next
generation. We've certainly used these
facilities quite well over many decades
and it's time to renew and create
something for the next generation. Um,
and now I will hand it over to Dan
because obviously he did all the design.
>> Oh no, that's not true. All
>> right, he's the brains behind this.
>> All a good architect does is take great
ideas and put them together and
conceptualize them. And that's really
what this is all about. So everybody on
this committee had really unique
perspectives. We were all passionate
about what it was that we were trying to
advocate, but we really built consensus
around those ideas and ultimately really
developed a shared vision for this
project. And that's what you're going to
see today. The vision really needs to
express the the current, you know, the
expression of the current civic
buildings, the history of the town, town
hall, the police station, the fire
station, and the post office. They're
really a composition of buildings and
they can even though they are not
necessarily seen as one. They all relate
to one another in a very significant
way. So this is really going to be about
building something that does become a
landmark that is historic in nature but
ultimately serves the needs and
residents of the town and the staff. And
that I think is one of the most
important things is we want a place that
people want to come to work, want to be
with us and the kind of facilities that
we provide for them is critically
important. And then the last thing is
that it's got to be a timelessness that
is associated with what we're doing.
So the guiding principles that led us
through this journey uh what came out of
our discussions were principles that we
all agreed upon and would be used as a
roadmap for any of the ideas we
developed as a group. Our desire was to
design a facility that would serve the
different constituencies in our town and
become the primary community building
around which the town is organized.
We wanted a building that expressed our
history, was environmentally
sustainable, met the current operational
requirements of the town, and adaptable,
and was adaptable to future needs. We
wanted a building that remained
operational if there was a major
emergency event such as fire,
earthquake, flood, wind, etc. Most
importantly, we were seeking a building
that would utilize the town's resources
in a trustworthy manner.
» So, I'm going to let you drive, Joey.
Okay.
>> So, I want to emphasize before we look
at this that this is a conceptual idea.
This has not been developed in detail.
Um, we believe that based on the
analysis that we've all done that it
will work, but it's not meant to be
something that is to be approved right
now. It's not meant to be a pretty
picture. It's meant to be something that
I think we can all all rally around, but
there's a lot of work that needs to be
done. So, I think that keep that in
mind. This is not we didn't do detailed
planning. We didn't sit down with the
department heads. We didn't sit down
with staff and go through and that needs
to be done. That's a really important
part of the process moving forward. But
with that said, um we did look at a
number of variables in terms of trying
to figure out exactly what we needed to
do. One was the nature of the these
structures. This structure and the other
building is a registered historic
building. That's critically important.
The sensitivity of the site, the
proximity to cordier creek, the amount
of activity that these buildings get is
going to be critically important. the
programmatic and operational
requirements of the staff is number one
consideration and I think sometimes it
may be a little bit lost in conversation
but the housing next door has an is an
important part of this right so let's
say that the housing becomes a twostory
buildings and our building is a
one-story building then you have a
situation in terms of the composition of
the structures along so Francis Drake
where the housing could actually become
a more prominent infrastructure over the
town. So I think it's really important
to think about over the long run how do
we pull all of this together and I it's
also important to understand that the
variables sometimes are at odds with one
another right you think you check the
box over here and you think this is
going to work and then you realize
something over here doesn't work so
there inevitably are going to be
compromises involved and what we're
showing you does involve compromises and
I think any good design does because to
be able to solve every single problem is
in many cases virtually impossible. So
the what we came up with was what we're
calling an adaptive reuse strategy
and the building we actually came up
with a name and we're not sure you guys
like it but you can come up with
something else. It's a Ross community
and town center which will become this
has always been our primary civic
building. This building will become our
primary civic building. The design would
respect and enhance the original Spanish
clo uh colonial revival style which was
a very symmetrical design that was done
by John White in 1927.
It will retain as much of the building
as we can. It's going to retain the
original firetruck bays, the small ones
in the front that housed the fire trucks
many years ago, which will become a new
entry. and the existing fire and EMS
bays in the back of the building will
also be retained. And then we looked at
how would you expand the building. So
we're looking at in if you actually look
at the building has gone through a
number of expansions over the years.
Most of them in the back of the building
when you look at go around the building
and you can actually see how those
additions occurred. And then we also
looked at probably the most significant
change would be adding a second floor to
the building.
So the new building's going to preserve
the integrity and the original compens
uh composition of the existing town hall
and the posttop meaning that
architecturally is going to be in a
similar style. The town hall building is
going to be renovated and would continue
to play an important role as a community
meeting place. A single single two-story
building has significant advantages. One
is it greatly reduces site coverage. So
we have a lot less construction. It
minimizes disruption to environmentally
sensitive areas because we have less
work on the site. It provides more open
space in public access. It allows for
changes over time, right? Versus a
single when you do single use,
singlestory buildings that are specific
to a function, you automatically in many
ways constrain what those buildings can
do over the long run. And that's an
important consideration. And I think the
last thing is that uh we all know based
on all the residential work that we do
in town that going up is a lot less
expensive than going out. Adding
additional space above a garage or a
second floor to a home is a lot less
expensive than doing multiple buildings
because you're using essentially the
same structural systems, some of the
same mechanical electrical systems. So
it's much more efficient overall.
So the intent is that the building
becomes more open to the community and a
meeting place. The main facade and the
original truck bays, this is a very the
very original truck bays, will be
retained and renovated to become a main
entry. The floor level of the old bays,
as you know, it's a lower floor level
because it's that grade would have to be
raised to the same level of the existing
police station. Handicap access would be
accommodated within landscape design
with sloped walks, ramps as required. Uh
the landscaping would be sensitive,
lowmaintenance, natural landscaping in
keeping with the original architectural
intent.
It's interesting if you look at John
White's um original concept, probably I
don't think a lot of us necessarily paid
attention to it, but he actually does a
both in the vertical plane and the
horizontal plane. He has a beauty to his
buildings in that from a horizontal
standpoint they you they step back but
they also step back but they also have
different roof planes as well. So this
play between massing and height is a
very important part of what John has
done. So what we're trying to do is to
actually tie into that original design
and that original intent
the entire project. Oh, we're out of
sync here. We got another one.
Let's see.
>> Okay, that's that's okay. I think the
one thing we can we can go back, Joey.
That's fine. The the interesting thing
about doing the project in this manner
is that we can do it all at once, right?
Instead of phasing it and the cost
associated with phasing it and all the
disruption of all the town um you know,
all the facilities and functions and
everything else, we could potentially
move everybody off site and do this all
at one time. So, it's envisioned that
the existing building would be enhanced
to reflect details similar to town hall
potentially. Do you see here adding arch
windows with the same details? Uh the
town center would become a much more
prominent structure. I think it's
important to know that this is just
these are conceptual ideas and it's not
meant to be a final design. you know,
when we're looking at window openings or
locations and such, when we actually get
into the interior planning, the interior
planning is going to have an impact
ultimately on the exterior of the
building.
» Oh, now you got it. We did it again.
That's okay. No, you're good. That's
okay. Go to the next one.
>> So, uh, you may or may not be aware of
this, but White's original design had
two courtyards.
There was one for the police station.
There was one on the right and one on
the left and the offices actually
surrounded the courtyards. And I'm sure
what happened was, you know, this was
done in 1927 and the town's needs
changed and over time the staff got
bigger and the town got larger and so
those courtyards were filled in. So, our
intent is actually to take those
courtyards or exact same location where
White originally had them, move them to
the second floor so that we have outdoor
garden space and courtyard so that you
can see on the right hand side we have
the office space. The offices would
actually open out onto the garden and
the courtyard as well as a creek on the
other side. So you would have incredible
natural light for all of the uh all of
the staff and anybody who's actually
working in the building.
The EMS uh and fire bays in the back of
the building would be retained and
renovated to accommodate a fire truck.
Uh we still have one more bay left over.
So maybe we could use it for emergency
vehicles. We might be able to use it for
shop. We might be able to use it for
additional parking. There's no doubt
that we'll be able to use that space
overall. So, there is an option um that
we've been looking at uh and I think
it's actually included in the estimate
right now. We could actually raise the
grade in those buildings. We could
actually raise it up about a foot. It
wouldn't bring it above the flood plane,
but it would help mitigate to some
extent the the flood issue. What we
would be and again still the building is
still in the flood plane. There's no
question about that. But we believe that
there are other flood mitigation efforts
that we could take that would actually
solve that problem similar to what other
fire departments have done uh in Marin.
So I also think the other thing and this
is sort of a side comment. I I've been
here for almost well I've been here 40
years so I've seen 40 plus here. I've
seen a lot of floods and what's been
interesting to me is that with all the
work that we did downstream and the and
the bridge work that we did actually the flooding situation even though from
a weather standpoint may be more severe
seems to be a lot better than it ever
was. So I think a lot of the mitigation
work has really helped in a big way.
What's interesting about the the
building is that the original truck bays
are twostory
and so we need a two-story space to get
to the second floor. So we can use the
original truck bay areas as a lobby as
potentially a meeting space but also as
a way to put the elevators and the stair
to the to the second floor. One one
option that I think we should look at
would be to potentially frame the
building as a mass timber structure,
which means that the second floor office
space could be it could be very cool. We
could actually do exposed beams. We
could do slanted ceiling. The amount of
daylight. It would be a wonderful place
to work. And from a sustainability
standpoint would be a terrific way to
go. Uh we also, this is again sort of a a general thought, we should seriously
look at lead certification,
lead platinum possibly. Uh Joey sent me
a You guys should look at it.
Athetherton did their town hall uh town
center. It's quite a bit bigger than
ours, but it it's similar actually in
Spanish style. They did a net zero
building, you know. So we maybe we set
the bar high for ourselves and we do a
net a net zero building. Um but
nonetheless I think from a
sustainability standpoint you know
looking at these kinds of ideas would be
terrific.
So this is uh and we we did not have a
detailed site plan. That's one of the
things we're going to ask you for. So, a
lot of what we did was based on um
drawings that we had um information that
we had, the original building plans, but
we've retained both of the main entry
and exit points on the site. Uh given
the reduced site coverage, we have the
ability to actually So, one of the
question I think is going to come up and
Joey's going to talk a little bit about
it is going to be the program, right?
Does this meet the program or not? Um,
and we have to keep in mind that this is
not a final, again, a final idea. It's
an idea. It's not a final plan. We do
have the ability to add more space to
the building. We can go the back uh the
back bays that you can see the roof line
could be extended. We could actually
make this building extended on the side
if we needed to. I don't think we will.
I think we have more than enough space.
But we also have enough room on the site
now that if we wanted to add an
ancillary building, small building, we
could. And one of the things um that we
discussed because we don't have a a a
real deep understanding of the
programmatic requirements, but one area
public works has asked for a shop for
instance. Well, you know, a shop
probably shouldn't be in the main
building. So why not do a small
ancillary building that has a shop and
some of the other support facilities?
And that's actually what we've shown on
the right hand side is the ability not
necessarily in that location, but we can
add additional structures if we need to the to the site overall.
» So we are emphasizing again that this is
a conceptual plan. Um we did not have a
lot of existing information to go on to
help us with detailed planning. We
didn't have a survey of the site and we
didn't have drawings of the existing
buildings. We basically took the square
footage requirements from concept B and
added what would be needed for a fire
capacity and put those together and came
up with the the allotments for our block
plan. So just again emphasizing that
this is conceptual but that we have
determined that all of this square
footage can fit into the plan.
>> Okay. So you you've seen in the p in the
package what we showed as our initial um
oh sorry there you go
>> stand
>> okay this yeah here I can actually I
probably should use this laser pointer
since I've been sitting here on it um
this actually shows you where we have
added space so there's some infill areas
in the front but you can see the back of
the building how jagged it is so this
has gone through a number of additions
so by actually expanding the building in
the back in these two areas. We pick up
area on the first floor and then this
entire area right here is second floor
space. And as I mentioned, we have the
ability to push this roof line back if
we need to. And we could even
potentially push these little wings out
if we need to, but I don't think we
will. I think the the bottom line is
that from programmatic standpoint, what
we have blocked out right now is about
2,000 square feet more than what we
need. So the question is will can this
accommodate a fire operation and the
answer is yes we believe that it can.
Part of what we have to um really refine
is when you look at the program there
are spaces that have been defined in
various departments that are somewhat
redundant. Right? know whether we're
talking about toilet facilities or
lockers or we're talking about
potentially a kitchen area or a fitness
facility and such.
>> Just Yeah, there you go.
>> No, no, no. Keep going.
>> Okay. Um that these areas um so a lot of
these things potentially could be
combined. So rather than doing you know
toilet areas here, here and here, why
not do one space, right? Why not would
do one space for fitness and one space
for a kitchen and one space for a living
room that can be shared across the staff
and potentially the police and the and
the fire departments.
» So I we were we're kind of sharing this part of the presentation. Um if we
decide that a fire station can happen,
we definitely have room for it. If we
decide later on that that's not going to
work, we have space available for other
community needs or desires, uh it has
been discussed in our group that it
could be a wonderful gathering space
with or without a fire station. Uh it
could be a senior center. I think what's
really important for us going forward is
to use our imagination and think of all
that this could just to envision
everything that this could bring to town
people. They would have a place to
gather. You know, Dan mentioned the
Athetherton uh town center. I got an
email from my son saying that he lives
right near that and they redeveloped it
beautifully. He said, "You should tell
them about that tonight that I go study
there. There's a cafe and it's a place
where people gather." And you think if
we had the affordable housing right
there, maybe that's a place where those
folks would come and hang out and it
would bring more of the town together
than just the high and buy at the post
office. So, I think we should sort of
look at this as this grand gesture in
our town of making a community space
that has a lot of options.
Next,
>> I think that's enough of that.
>> Yep. Okay. So you you guys um have
actually this is in your package and
there are a lot of of different
advantages that we have to this plan
whether we're talking about satisfying
the master plan requirements or talking
about the historic aspect of it or the
environmental aspect of it. There's some
real significant advantages of doing one
building, an important building, a
building that basically becomes our our
town center. Um again it's been a
hundred years this you know the
buildings have served us well but I
think ultimately we all have a
responsibility of doing something for
the town. This is going to be part of
what we leave right there's been a lot
of generations that have been here and
when we're gone there going to be other
families here and I think it's really
important that we ultimately leave
something that we're proud of.
And on that same point, um, one of my
friends brought up the word stewardship
as a a real key word to think about with
this move that we might make and to
imagine that many of us have been
fortunate to raise our children here and
have these amenities that we all took
for granted. The beautiful school, the
post office, the Rosscom and the town
hall, the fire station. And it might be
time to pay that forward and to create
something beautiful for the next
generation.
>> Okay. So, now we have I think you guys
have actually seen the video, but I
think we're going to Jeff, you want to
play the
>> Yeah, why don't we go ahead and play it?
>> Um, maybe while Jeff's getting that
ready, I I maybe have another personal
comment. You guys, we, you know, we
looked at this building 25 years ago and
we did when we did that study, the
criteria was different, the program was
different. Um, one of the things that we
looked at was to get the entire building
out of the flood plane, which means
meant either demolishing or lifting that
entire building up. And when we did the
analysis of that building, we recognized
then way back then that it needed to be
gutted, right? it needed new electrical,
needed new mechanical, it didn't need
new seismic, that there was a complete
redo of that building that was required.
Um, my position then
um was that we should do a rehab and a
renovation of that building. That was our recommendation at the time.
This is 2000. Um, and I still feel
strongly in in that that that is the
right way to go. It it's essentially
what we're going to end up here with is
a new building. We're going to have a
facade that respects what John White
did. We're going to have a building that
ultimately is one that I believe could
become a center for the entire town. But
it will in every way be a new building.
And I think we have to keep that in mind
that that it isn't it's not just a
renovation of an existing structure and
that a lot of things are going to remain
as it that's not the case. This is going
to require a lot of work and ultimately
we're going to end up with a building
that in fact will last another hundred
years.
>> I'm gonna need that. Go.
>> Will you need this?
>> I will.
>> Oh, there you go.
>> Okay.
This is a uh
this is a YouTube video that uh the
Gendler team put together. Um we've seen
almost a 100red views of this thing
since we published it two days ago I
think it was. So,
I like it.
Okay,
mute this.
One second. So, our agenda tonight
is introduce you to the conceptual plan.
want to do a preliminary cost analysis,
pardon me, and review a timeline and
schedule. We'll get to that shortly.
Review permanent financing for this.
We've done a lot of homework on that.
Next steps, an RFP for an architectural
engineering and consulting services, all
of which are necessary.
Funding for a site survey as built and
selective investigations.
appoint a public private working group.
And if you all agree that this is
something, pardon me, you want to do,
the friends of the Ross Firehouse will
immediately withdraw their ballot
initiative
for this June.
Now, I'm going to introduce Mr. Ed Dong.
Take it away.
>> Thank you, Jeff. Uh, my name is Ed Dong.
I'd like to talk to you about costs.
What we have here is a is a uh a summary
of of our work and in comparison with
the KPA concept Budget.
Uh the slide is first project cost
estimate. We call it first project or
first cost estimate because it is a
concept budget and as we move through
we'll have progressive budgets to keep
real time uh updates on where we are in
design and cost. So right now this is
the concept first project uh cost. First
line is the KPA budget uh presented in
2023.
We've added an adjustment factor and uh
you know we see their 2026 cost at 24.7
million. At that time they were
proposing to build uh 11,700
square ft with a budget uh of 2,115
per square foot with no fire station
programmed in that plan. Uh the proposed
civic and community concept uh we
believe we can deliver at $22.7 million,
$2 million less than the KPA concept B
budget. Uh interestingly, we believe we
can deliver almost 2,000 ft extra of
program space for our budget of 1,680
square uh dollars per square foot,
including a firehouse.
Now the the drill down budget is very
detailed and very very tiny. You have it
in your package. We didn't see fit to
have it on the screen because no one no
one would be able to read it.
But uh uh let me emphasize and point out
how and why we think that this is the uh the favored direction to to to
move with the 2000 the two million
dollar savings. we believe uh we can
generate is first of all this is an
adaptive reuse property. We see this
using the the beauty of the design using
the existing building using the same
footprint and building as Dan indicated
building up. So, you know, we save cost
on on a on a new building. Uh we we're
saving the roof, we're saving the
facade. So we believe this is a very
economic uh way to go. In doing so we
are maintaining the site. So the KPA
plan envisioned demolishing raising the
entire building and all the site environ
including trees. We will have everything
maintained. So there should be minimal
site uh renovation improvements to to to
deliver this. Also we are keeping the uh
apparatus bays at the back so that in
the event the town moves for a fire
station we do not have to rebuild those
apparatus bays. Those are fun. They were
functional uh previously. They'll be
functional in the future.
in pricing I'm sorry in pricing this we
went to two uh local general contractors
uh both very very wellestablished uh
regional builders both building upwards
of a million to two to1 to2 billion
dollars volume a year sweet spots in
building are anywhere from 10 million to
75 million so this 23 24 million project
is right in their sweet spot uh both
these companies Swinton Builders and
Build Group. They specialize in historic
restoration, civic redevelopment,
adaptive reuse. And uh again, this is
right down the strike zone. We have
selected uh build group to highlight
here and it's in your package. Build
group tooured the building. They
understood the crawl space under uh
under the floorboards. They looked at
the potential foundation requirements.
They looked at the uh the envelope
framing. They looked at the roof framing
and uh they formed the basis of their
renovation rebuilding cost on on that
inspection.
The pricing that you see in little tiny
print in your package, it is a
prevailing wage union pricing for a risk
category for ESA design that is for an
essential
building design uh that this building
will be and therefore the price includes
the enhanced structural, seismic and
functional durability that's required
for for essential buildings.
build group
looked at every component of this of
this build. Uh they broke it down to 24
25 cost categories. Uh they estimated
this will take 15 months to to deliver.
So their price includes the the the
personnel, the management, the the site
requirements to sustain that that
building and delivery period. They
looked at the amount of concrete that
would be required for the new
foundations to build up. They looked at
all the framing, not only the the uh the
wall and ceiling framing, but also the
enhanced seismic and structural framing
needed uh you know for this ESA
requirement.
uh drywall, walls, ceilings, the windows
that you saw in uh in in Dan and Joey's
presentation, we've got that covered in
scope. Elevator, two-stop elevator. This
building is ADA ADA accessible. All the
finishes, all as as Dan said, a new
building. Yes. All the mechanical,
electrical, plumbing systems will be all
new up to uh you know, up to uh you
know, leading edge standards. full com
uh communications security low voltage
all taken into account.
You know, we have we have funds in there
also, as Dan indicated, to to raise the
apparatus bay floor if we decide to do
that in consideration of some flood
mitigation.
We have included uh design contingency,
construction contingency.
We have soft cost included architect,
mechanical, electrical, plumbing
engineer, structural engineer, uh
historic, you know, preservation
consultants, construction management,
permits, fees, testing and inspections.
So again, too tiny to present on the
board, but you know, in summary, we
believe we can deliver this building and
the and the uh uh and the maintained
site for $22.7 million.
Uh again, adaptive reuse building,
retaining the sitework apparatus bays.
We're going to reuse tie into the
existing facilities and infrastructure
and uh you know a lot of the programming
of the different departments will come
out during the schematic design. At that
point we can take a look at the
requirements for police yard uh you know
any uh any public works yards and we'll take that into account. So I'll be available for questions.
Any questions? Bob.
>> Yeah, I should have said this at the
outset. I think we wanted you to finish
your presentation and then we'll have
council questions
>> and then we'll ask staff questions. Then
we can take public comment and then we
can bring it back for discussion and
further further steps.
Wait, are we up to project timeline?
Yeah. Yeah.
Uh Bob Herpst uh ad hoc committee
member, president, friends of Ross
Firehouse. Welcome guys. Thank you.
Uh project timeline. So the primary
purpose of this is to demonstrate that
we can get this building done in time to
move the paramedics in in January 2029
pursuant to our existing RVPA paramedic
lease. Um there's really three
components in this timeline. Ed
mentioned the construction component.
That's 15 months. that's uh at the
bottom of the chart. Um, currently if we
hit all these timelines, which will
require uh require you guys to make a
pretty prompt decision that you like
this plan, but if if we uh get started
promptly, um we'll have several months
uh extra time to move our BPA paramedics
in. Uh the other two primary components
other than the construction timeline are
the SQA review and permitting timeline
and the architecture and engineering
timeline. In this uh chart we've got the
architecture and engineering broken into
two components. The first is schematic
design and costing and that's basically
a three-month time period. Um and then
the final component is four months which
is working drawing. So that's the, you
know, the 50 pages of of drawings of
exactly what the contractor needs to do
to uh execute the project. Um, what
we're recommending to town council if
they decide to pursue this plan is to
bring on that schematic architectural
designer as soon as possible. Go to RFP
in May if you can. Um, get them on board
to complete that three-month process.
The the design component is going to be
two months, then we'll cost it with
contractors. Three months. that could
potentially give you guys the
opportunity to go to the voters in
November with a fully costed plan. Um,
if you're not comfortable with that and
can't get there in time for November, it
can move to June. That doesn't affect
this timeline. We'll still be working on
the full design. We'll still be working
on the SQA permitting. That will be
done, as you can see on the plan, in
time for a June ballot measure as well.
So, that's really for you guys to
decide. And if you like this plan and
want to proceed with it, it is important
to get moving on hiring that schematic
designer. Thank you.
Okay.
Um,
financing a project. Turns out it's
complicated.
The only realistic and feasible source
of financing is a general obligation
bond.
The only permitted use of funds from a
general obligation bond are brick and
mortar construction. You cannot use it
for operations, salaries, and so on. And
it requires a twothirds vote by the
voters.
And it's important to understand this is
I'm sure familiar to you, but I want to
make sure everybody understands
the go tax, the general obligation. And
the go tax is based on a parcel's
assessed value,
not a parcel.
tax like the public safety
parcel tax we have in Ross. It's the
same amount for everybody.
Your next door neighbor has the same tax
that you have.
Assessed value is what you paid for your
house and what you've done to improve
it.
And therefore, everybody's assessed
value is unique.
Now, a $10 million bond, and I use this
the number 10 partly because it's an
easy number to get in your head and do
math with, but $10 million bond of 4%
interest over 30 years would require
annual payments of about $580,000 a
year.
And by the way, you had a presentation
last month, was it with um the field, how do I pronounce the name?
Fields Yeah, Fieldman. So, I've gone
through all of my arithmetic with the
Fieldman guy just to make sure that I
wasn't doing it wrong and I wasn't.
And we'll get into this more in the next
slide. in Ross,
you when you get do all the math,
the parcel, pardon me, the um assessed
value tax for the general obligation
bond is about $20 per $100,000 of
assessed value.
The town's assessed value increases
about 2 to 4% annually, and that happens
everywhere. And it is limited to that by
Prop 13.
And the people who make that decision to
increase it, of course, the Marin County
Assessor.
But when you do that,
the effective tax goes down because the um assessed value of the whole town
is going up.
So, for example, for a home that has 2
million of assessed value, that tax
works out to about $400 a year
declining with such value increases.
I want to spend some time talking about
this, but um
it's this button, right? Yep.
» Oh, there it is. The assessed value of
all the homes and Ross
as of November last comes to $2.95
billion.
That is a stunning number.
But that's just the assessed value. The
market value is probably three times
that.
A median home of assessed value in Ross
is 2 and a half million.
And this pie
divides it in all of the homes in Ross
into 10 into pardon me 10 segments. Each
segment is 83 homes.
And when you look at the top of the of
the pie, where's my little
There it is. That little teeny sliver of
red at the 12:00 point in the in the pie
has as many homes as the big blue pie
just to its left.
That red pie has a 23 million, pardon
me, that red slice has a $23 million
assessed value. The same number of homes
across to to the left has $978
million of assessed value.
20% of the homes in Ross account for
$1.5 billion of assessed value. And if
you go clockwise, starting at 12:00,
each of the pie slices gets a little bit
bigger.
It's a ton of money that's out there.
So,
I'm I think unless there's something
right away, I'm going to move on. So,
that is you.
» So, this one's mine, right? Okay. So,
just a number of requests that we have
to get this moving forward.
>> Yep. One would be to develop an amended
master plan based on this idea of
working with Kristen's staff and
actually amending what it is that we've
been working on. We need um we couldn't
find one. It may exist somewhere, but we
need a site survey done quickly.
Identifying the buildings, where they're
located, the structures, the topography,
um major landscaping, trees, that kind
of thing. That needs to be done. That
could be moved forward right away. We're
going to need it no matter what. So,
that should be done. Asbuilt drawings of
town hall. Um, it's not an expensive
process to get as built drawings of this
building and the other building. Um,
laser technology allows us to do it very
quickly. As far as the other building is
concerned, we'd also want to make sure
that we identify any structural walls in
the building and such to to make sure
that we're planning um, you know,
properly moving forward. We would like
to do a limited amount of exploration in
the existing building. Maybe opening up
ceiling here and there. We have to be
careful about it because the building's
occupied. Uh it would be very minimal
amount of work, but it would give us a
better understanding of maybe some of
the work that potentially needs to be
done. As we talked about it, the the
question would be why would we do
schematic design and break it into
pieces? I think that it would be ideal
if we selected one architect to do the
whole thing. However, any architect just
like any general contractor giving us
prices right now is going to put a big
contingency in their number because they
don't know exactly what it is that
they're going to do. So, there's a
couple of advantage of doing schematic
design. schematic design are going to
include floor plans, elevations, working
with the department heads and coming up
with detailed plans for the police
station, offices, public works,
everything. It'll also include outline
specifications and enough information to
be able to develop a budget that we can
hang our hat on. Right now, all
everything that everybody's been done is
a conceptual budget. And I guarantee you
that there is a lot of, you know, a lot
of contingency across the board.
Contingency, contingency on top of
contingency. So, and this is a pretty
typical process. Get it to the point.
And what it allows us to do, we have
plans, we have specifications,
we can get pricing, and if you want to
try to move forward with the bond this
year, we can do this in three months. So
have enough information but it's I'm not
sure we meaning the process that we need
to go through of selecting architects
can be done that quickly but the
schematic design work could actually be
done done in in three months. So, and
then you could you could ask an
architect for instance and or other
consultants, give us money, do schematic
design. This is what it looks like. They
can do an estimate for the entire
project. But once they have
clarification on what it is that they're
doing, contract documents, contract
administration, everything else is much
more manageable to them and their
numbers are going to ultimately be a lot
tighter. So, I think we can simplify the
process, move it forward quickly. it
does mean move spending money. Um the
schematic design normally is going to be
somewhere around 15% of the overall
fees. So it there's an investment that
would be made that you know hopefully
we'd be able to use downstream. I think
that the one other thing would be
getting a historic consultant on board.
We have registered historic structures.
So the the the question is and I think
we all believe that these buildings
would be given special consideration in
terms of environmental impact and SQA
and such. Um, not necessarily that we
would get a negative declaration, but we
potentially could, you know, work with
historic consultant, work with
environmental consultant and greatly
reduce the amount of time, effort, and
money that would go into some of the
environmental remediation work that
would need to be done.
This is
>> um yeah this one I'll just summarize in
sort of one comment and it was said at
the very beginning and that is that it's
I think we all believe that it would be
really helpful and important to have a a
public private working group uh to work
with Christa to move the project forward
uh quickly. I think having I mean what
we've all seen is having the kind of
resources that we all can draw on to be
able to to help in in a significant way
I think is really valuable to the town.
The fact that everybody here and there
are others around that are willing to
put their time and their money and the
talent of their people and their staffs
and themselves into an effort like this
is a big deal. And not to take advantage
of it I think would be unfortunate. And
I think quite frankly given the time we
have and all the other constraints that
if we can do this you know it's it means
doing it more like a project would be in
the private sector but at least
accelerate you know a typical process
that we would have to go through
and I think is that it
>> that's it you're up
>> oh
>> bill
your
well really Um,
I'm I'm going to have to
» really
We're want to talk about the financing
of the project. And here Jeff and and
really Tom, if you don't mind, I really
need to ask you to step in here. I'll do
the panime
and and we can talk about the financing
of this,
>> but you're you're going to be skilled at
talking about the geo bond and all that.
>> Yes, I am. This is out of my league. So
there.
» Thanks, bro. All right. So the uh as as
we have up here on the slide, the in
terms of the next stops
for uh the bond approval. I know some of
you on the town council have a lot of
experience in getting approval of parcel
tax and school bonds and everything
else. And I think we as a group feel
that uh we can help generate support and
get this bond passed. And uh I anybody
who's taken a look at the plan seems to
be supportive so far. uh we all came
together in 30 minutes over Dan's first
iteration of this plan and and uh we
think we can bring the whole town
together and we appreciate all the
efforts you guys have put and time
you've put into all this and uh we're
here to help and the the Ross property
owners the friends of the firehouse the
Ross auxiliary
even the age friendly I think everybody
can unify and I uh as one town, as one
community, and get this thing passed.
Don't forget the Ross Historical Society
is going to be on this. Um, madame mayor
and council members, I'm happy to be
here tonight. Um, we all know it's
difficult to pass a twothirds bond
election, but I think there's two key
elements in to it. One is to avoid
controversy as much as you can and two
is to have an active proactive uh bond
uh outreach committee and with those I
think we can do it. Now, I give you an
example of how easy something can go
Whoops. can go uh south. And about 20
years ago, the Ross School went out with
a bond issue somewhat under $20 million.
And two of our council members tonight
know a lot about that because they were
on the school board at the time. Um
everything was cruising along very well
with the election. and all of a sudden
one landowner sent out a letter to all
the homeowner well to all the residents
in the town and um questioned the need
for remodeling the school and that
started uh people asking questions and
Ros School had never really had any
problems authorizing
uh like the parcel taxes.
So, out of the blue came this person
challenging everything and I think the uh bond election committee wasn't
ready to answer the questions. And so,
um sure enough, let's let's uh figure
out an a uh citizens advisory committee
and they formed one of 24 people, which
is way too many, 12 on each side. And
that committee, unlike our committee
that that I've worked with on this one,
that committee, there was acrimony.
There was
uh contentious behavior in the first
three or four meetings. And we met over
about a fourmonth I I just can't
remember
period, but about every other week. And
um after a while we kept talking about
the questions and it was a committee of
people that you find in Ross. Everybody
loves the town. They were just
questioning you know they wanted
information and so um after we met uh we
eventually wound up with a 23 to nothing
vote. Uh one person quit the committee
and we brought that back to the town
council. I mean the uh school board and
of course they approved it and we went
ahead and the citizens committee one of
the advantages of a citizen committee is
they study the issue beforehand so they
know all about it and
uh the bond measure passed I believe it
got a 75% yes vote that you might you
one of you might remember I think it
went from 62 or 3 to 75% and I hold that
Was the bond what what
>> just going to say I think the first time
was 59%.
>> Was what?
>> 59%. Right, Elizabeth?
>> Yeah, I don't remember. It didn't pass.
It didn't get 66.
>> Anyway, it passed. And so the two the
two things to take from this is uh it
can well it's three there's it can
happen in Ross but um try to avoid
controversy
and uh have a good uh citizens committee
program of educated people and proactive
and that's what we've proposed by the
way meetings uh table at uh the town
council I mean at the Ross post office
um printed information. Uh the the uh
property owners are going to hold a
public meeting if we need maybe at the
so uh and no matter what project we
choose I think you need to proceed on
that method. So um sure enough now the
situation is it's difficult to decide on
the project and it's because there are
big groups on both sides and nobody's
going to get a twothirds vote the way it
works now. So
our eightp person committee which was is
comprised of people that were both on
both leaning both ways on this issue and
a lot of strong support from the friends
of the fire station. But um we were we
were formed to come up with a viable
plan and uh
we can argue elements of the plan, but
what we need is a plan acceptable to
these diverse groups no matter what. We
need to we need to get that twothirds
threshold. And so you've heard about our
plan tonight and all the things that
we're uh you know recommending. It's a
beautiful structure. It it it attracts
us. It uh whatever problems can I think
the um
uh architects that you select can work
out all of those kinks. But what we need
what we really need is um or what the
town needs to move forward is a a
unanimous vote by the council on our
plan.
And I believe that um with unanimous and
vote and approval by the town council
um with the exceptional design and uh I
think popular appeal of the civic center
design and a very active bond outreach
committee. um we have an excellent
chance to pass the bond issue and I've
done 14 bond issues on voted bond
measures in Marin and uh that's kind of
what I found is the key and if we do
that and and pass the bond issue then we
will build an excellent
civic center building just like Ross
school did and built their fabulous
school building.
So that's it.
Okay. So last slide to summarize.
The project minimizes operational
disruption and construction time by
allowing the whole project to move
forward at once as opposed to in
multiple phases.
Vertical space is less expensive than
singlestory space and adding a second
story to the building is much less
expensive
than additional ground area.
Allows for two means of financing, one
for the town center and optionality for
future firehouse operations should we
desire. It
requires less site coverage and
environmental disruption, minimizing
hardscape and prompting other mitigation
risk.
uh work, excuse me, and allows planning,
building, and public works to remain in
place until the new facilities are ready
for occupancy, which will minimize both
costs and operational disruptions.
And that is the end of our presentation.
» Wonderful. Thank you all. It was really
terrific. We and we really appreciate
all the time and effort and
collaboration and creativity.
And I think now we'll have questions
from the council to the committee and
then we will um have questions to staff
if people have questions to staff. Then
we'll take public comment and then we
will bring it back and figure out what
our next steps are.
Questions? Elizabeth?
>> Um thank you very much. I I think the
plan looks beautiful. Um I have a couple
of quick questions. One is you'd
mentioned if we can't make the bond
measure if we can't make it for a
November bond that it could go on a June
ballot. Is is is that possible to have a
general obligation bond in a year that
doesn't have a general election? It's
2027
or do we need a special election for
that?
>> Uh
what? Go ahead. No. Go ahead.
» I I checked with our uh attorney's
office on that that question today and
yes, we can uh the the town council can
place a measure on the ballot a a geo
bond in um 2027. Um I would like to
clarify um the Marin County Office of
Elections, they don't there's not a June
date next year. Let me tell you what the
dates are. I did get those.
So, the dates are um in 2027 the the
special election dates because they
would all be called a special election
March 2nd, May 4th, August 31st, and
November 2nd. The May meeting and the
August meeting are um only vote by mail.
And um just to give you an idea of the
deadline. So if the council was going
to, you know, target the March 2nd, 2027
date, you would have to have all the
information to the county elections
office by December 4th. So it's a good
four months. Um you have to get the
information, take your action as a
council and get your information to the
um county elections office.
>> Thank you. Okay. I mean, I I I think I'm
hoping that it's possible for November,
but it's helpful to know that that it's not a whole another year to wait.
And then um for the um uh for the bays
and where um the paramedic, ambulance,
or fire engines, if we have any exit, is
this driveway being kept, you know, this
driveway between town hall and the uh
the town building? I couldn't tell from
the drawing if there's a little park
there or if it's if there's still an
exit right here.
>> Okay.
>> So, you can now those curve cuts.
>> Excuse me, Mr. We'd love to hear what
you have to say. You have to speak the
microphone
so the folks at home can hear.
>> I thought I was speaking loud enough
that everybody could hear. Um, no, which
>> I think the site needs to be developed,
but there clearly needs to be an
entrance and exit on both sides like
there is right now.
>> Okay.
>> And that was the intent and actually I
think the original plans that were sent
out to all of you did not show that and
then we were modified to actually pick
that up and included the redwood trees
that we would want to save here as well.
So, um, so yes, the answer is yes.
>> Okay, thank you. And then my only other
question is on slide 28 there you talk
about how we move forward appoint public
private working group uh led by the town
manager and duties determined by the
town manager and one question is is is
that the right process and and the
reason I ask is because we have a
committee right now that seems to be
doing an amazing job and I'm not sure if
you know I know Jeff you're leading it
if the if David Kelly is also part of it
and you're accessing the town manager
when you need her. I I'm not sure, but
it seems like, you know, this committee
has transcended politics and
personalities and has come up with a
plan. And I I'd kind of hate to rock the
boat. I mean, I'm happy to keep whatever
committee or leadership you have right
now because it's working. So, my
question is, why would we change that?
Why couldn't we just keep going right
now with what we have, accessing our
staff as we need them, the town manager
and the um uh project manager?
>> Well, I can tell you that this group is
very cohesive.
We pardon me. We would be delighted to
do that.
I mean, this group works.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I think I think it's I
think at the I you know ideally it's working together here right because
there are things that we can do
resources people that we can bring to
the table. You know we were looking at
say scope of work or evaluating
consultant agreements or whatever it
might be um to assist Christa and the staff in terms of being able to
bring more people to the table when it's
needed. And I think that all of us all
of us are willing to do that. I mean, I wouldn't have said that necessarily
think that going in, but I think after
working together for almost three months
that, you know, we have a lot of value
that we could bring to the table.
>> Thank you.
» With respect to the the timeline, I
appreciate that that timeline. I I have
to tell you my impression is that's I I
wonder how re realistic that is just
based on my experience uh both in the
private real estate development area but
also as a homeowner in Ross we were once
told for a survey we're looking at six
months to a year just because there were
so few surveyors. So I I mean is I
wonder if anyone could comment on this
particularly Dan, you know, as an
architect. I mean, do you really think
we could have a site plan within this
period of time and that these other
things could come together?
>> You want to comment? Well, I I'll maybe
take a little bit of this. Uh you're
right in terms of you know resources and
availability but we all have large firms
and we all have large operations and we
have a lot of clout and we can push
people pretty hard to get things done.
>> And it's true. I mean look at we got two
really great really great construction
estimates really good people took their
time to do this because they're partners
of ours across you know many different
projects and such. I I that it is a
really aggressive it is an aggressive
timeline. I think that you know if you
were to look for it a June bond for
instance I think the question becomes
how do we break up the work because what
I would hate to and something we'd have
to talk about but if you hire an
architect that does all the drawings and
you pay for all the engineers and all
the architect and get everything done
and you can even go get it send it out
to bid and get numbers for the bond
potentially.
What if it doesn't pass? And then all of
a sudden we've got a lot of sunk cost
that potentially I think it will pass
and I'm certainly optimistic about that
and we would throw our weight and
everybody in the town behind it, but it
may not. And so maybe it still might
force us to break it up into pieces. I
also think that the other issue is is
EMS and the contract and they sort of
run concurrently here and you're you're
trying to get some things done because
in a way you're going to want to
renegotiate some other things
potentially, but you could tell a story
where you're going to pro provide them a
facility that's a you know wonderful
facility and access to things that they
wouldn't have if they did this
separately. So there's a lot of moving
parts, but it is it is a pretty
aggressive schedule overall. It is.
>> And then one other question in terms of
the list of things that that we were
told we should get going on. Uh has any
thought been given to whether we should
have some sort of geotechnical study or
analysis given that this is near a creek
that it's in a known liquefaction zone?
>> Yeah, I think it's a good question. we
probably would do a limited number of
soil borings. Um, however, and I think
it would be if we were doing more work
that was closer to the creek, I'd be
much more concerned about it. But I
think if we open up those buildings and
look at some of the foundations
underneath and see if there's been any
settling over a hundred years, that's
going to give us a pretty good idea what
this substrate looks like. But I would
still say yes, we're going to have to
get a geotech in here and and do some
investigative work just to see if there
is something that we're not aware of.
>> Is is that something the town should be handling or with the
>> architect? No matter what, we'll have to
do it. I think the only question is
depending upon the route that we go, the
location of the buildings are going to
have an impact on where we do the
borings. You're not going to want to do
a soil boring in a place where we're not
going to have a building. And so I think
we, you know, again, it's let's get some
planning done, get something, and then
decide to go in and start doing some of
the we could do some preliminary soils
testing, but not necessarily spend the
money on doing complete porings.
» I I really love the conceptual design
and plan. It's beautiful. Um, a couple
questions. I think you may have
addressed it, but I just want to be
sure. parking and circulation within the
space. Is it adequate?
the park um
>> parking is it adequate and will
>> well I guess my answer to that question
would be based on the plan that has been
approved
uh assuming that was adequate the plan
that we're bringing forward would have
the ability to have more parking
because there's less site work right
it's more open we're basically
condensing the building and going up and
so consequently there's less sight
coverage which would allow us to do and
I if we would have had a survey would
have been a lot I could start doing
layouts and stuff, but
>> it just didn't make a lot of sense
without having really adequate
information. But it also potentially
could take areas like this area right
now, which is sort of a dead area of
this building because the the question
is in terms of access, people coming in,
they're going to have to go up Sir
Francis Drake and come in the center. we
could actually develop it so that
there's a double entry that comes into
the site and potentially look at some of
the areas over here for open areas and
patio areas and other community kinds of
small group activities. And so I think
that site development piece of it I I
think again based on the you know master
plan that's approved I would say yes I
would say we probably can get more but I
think we still have to go through the
process of of detailed planning. Yeah, I
was thinking if if the those back bays,
if that area is for community um events
or you've got a community center, there
may be more people coming in than just
the staff that are working here or the
police and the and the paramedics.
>> Yeah. So,
>> yeah.
>> Um another question. Um, I know you
didn't uh talk to the police or the um
public works staff about the space that
they need. And I think about public
works, they they have a new is it a new
lawn mower or something that's coming,
new tractor? It's like where where are
we going to put these things? Have you
thought about that and what in the
design?
>> Um, the answer is yes and and no, right?
So the yes side of it is is certainly we
saw a number of things in the program
that in all likelihood should not be in
that larger structure and a lot of it
had to do with public works the shop
area equipment sort and some other
things. I think that the fact that again
we're condensing it into one building,
we have the ability to do a separate
small public works maintenance and shop
area because in all likelihood just
based on the function of those
particular areas, you probably wouldn't
want it in the building. But we didn't have the time and we didn't
really sit we really need to sit down
with everybody and Christa and the staff
have done that. The program looks really
good. There's a lot of clarification
work that needs to be done, but detailed
layouts are the next step to make sure
that everything works. And this building
is as, you know, as nice as it is
conceptually, it'll change from this.
It's got to change from this. This is an
idea that we need to, you know, start
building on potentially.
>> And if I could address the police
station issue,
>> um, I've had multiple conversations with
Chief Am
or ex-chief
um he knows it solid right now. The new
chief doesn't know the building nearly
as much as he does. Right. So I asked
our just departed chief if he'd be
willing to consult over the phone or in
meeting with us starting next week. And
he said anytime you want. Is he still
here?
>> Right.
>> Yeah. That was anytime you want while I
was employed by the city itself. So
>> might come with the cost, but we'll
talk.
>> I know you do. I know you do. And what's
the what's the book you said you were
going to give us?
>> Uh is this the proper the appropriate
time to speak? So there's so so there's
rules for police departments. I haven't
heard any of that in this conversation
tonight. There's the International
Association for Chiefs of Police has a
guideline of what your police department
needs to look like and have the peace
officer standards of training in
California tells you what you need to
have for a police station. So when I
hear about the site and things like
that, be prepared for this number to go
up because there are some very expensive
things. Police departments aren't cheap,
fire departments aren't cheap, paramedic
buildings aren't cheap, but we have some
really specific stuff and we can't share
some of those things. Uh, the Department
of Justice regulates who comes and goes
and where they come and where they go.
>> Uh, we've got computers with people's
personal information. I mean, I'm kind
of preaching to the choir. I know it's a
beautiful looking building. I just worry
that it's not going to function for the
stuff that we need to do our job.
>> Um, and most importantly,
>> especially if you're going to have a
housing element here, um, you can't have
an escaped prisoner running through your
housing element. You need a secure area
to get them in and out of your building.
Same with the police officers. You need
a secure way to get them in and out. And
you need a secure in a discrete place
for victims of of crimes to come in and
out of the lobby. Um, you know, we get
we believe it or not, we we get that
here in Ross. We don't advertise. Um,
but but we do get that here in Ross. So,
these are all things that I'm happy to
share with you guys. And and there's guys that are bigger experts
than I am, but I've lived in your
building for five years. Um, I've been
here when we we it's like it's like a
fire drill for us to get the one police
officer and me that comes in on my day
off to move cars from your parking lot
and try to find parking either at Marine
Art and Garden Center or up on Laurel
Grove just so that we can get to our
cars because we're worried about
flooding. You know, been lucky. Hasn't
really happened a lot. happened once
when I was here. But still, the idea of
doing that and that takes us away from
the things that we really should be
doing like maybe evacuating residents or
doing traffic control. Um, these are all
considerations. And while I've worked in
this building for five, I've lived
through a rehab at the Sanfell Police
Station. Um, Chief Aguilar has lived
through the rehab at the Sanfell Police
Station. Um, it's a lot of work and you guys just should be prepared for
your numbers to go up and for this the
size to change a little bit at least.
So, anyway, there's pros that do this.
I'm I'm just I'm an expert only because
I use the property.
So, I'm happy to help you with whatever
else you might need.
>> We'll fix it.
>> Yeah.
I think that um
first of all, I think probably many of
you know my wife was in law enforcement
for 45 years. So the last thing I would
ever want to do is to short change the
police department, right? But I think
right now what we did is we blocked out
3,000 square feet. And the 3,000 square
feet in terms of functional needs is
defined in the program. And it is a
secure 3,000 foot area. It doesn't mean
that we have all the answers yet. We
certainly don't, but that block of space
is based on the program. So, and that's
a very clean square block of space. So,
consequently, I would think that we can
um meet all your all your needs and and
ultimately I think that pertains to
everybody. It pertains to public works
and the office space and staff and that
sitting down and working through these
things and trying to understand
compromises that could be made or should
be made or other kinds of things,
opportunities we can look at.
>> Yeah. I I I think you guys are on the
right track. I don't I don't think it's
impossible. Um size-wise, I think just
making all the pieces fit. Um I've lived
through I've said this before. It's kind
of I've lived through architectural
Tetris. It didn't really work out. Uh we So I like that you're considering,
you know, more space. I think that's
good. But I really do think that the
access is going to be huge for us. And
um and thank you for for everything. I
appreciate it. Is there any Tom Andrew?
Is there anything you need from me or
anybody else?
>> Well, um, thank you, Chief. Well, the council could very well have
questions for you.
>> I'll stick around.
>> Yeah.
>> Is it I don't want to take everybody's
time. Okay. So,
when would we really have an idea of
what the pretty true costs would be for
a geo bond?
>> I'm sorry. When would we really have a
good idea of what the cost? I mean,
Chief P is saying it's gonna cost going
to cost a lot more than you think. And
when you take a look at a at closer to
the structure, we may find that there's
things that we didn't under under we
didn't know or understand that would be
a problem. When are we going to know
what the real cost is going to be?
Because that affects how much we are
asking for in the geo bond.
>> No, I get that. But if your question is, it more difficult to go above 10
million than 20 million? No, it's not
difficult at all.
>> I'm just thinking if we say, okay, it's
going to be 10 million and the geo bond.
We issue the geo bond, but it ends up
being it's going to cost us more than
that. It's going to end up so people
vote, they say yes, twothirds, and then
we say, well, it wasn't quite enough. We
need another three million.
Okay. So, the town has 12 point
something million squirrel away,
>> right? And we're talking about a project
that is it 22 23 maybe 25 million. And
so, we need another 125.
If you start with 10, an additional 125
is no big deal. It really isn't.
>> Yeah. Maybe I could answer that
potentially too from a different
perspective. So, and I'll look at all my
developer friends in the including Bill
back there. Um, you know, when we do
projects and they're going for
financing, they got a budget. We got to
stick to the budget and you got to
figure out how to do that. But in order
to do that, you have to have enough
information developed so that you can
get a number that you can really hang
your hat on. And so the answer to the
question I think is you know multiaceted
in the sense that if you were to get an
architect on board a good architect
could do the schematic design and run
concurrently with cost estimator within
three months and have a number that
would include I think pretty much every
aspect of the project that we'd be
concerned about. Everything from AV
equipment furniture fit out everything
right. Um, but that would mean if you're
trying to, you know, if you're trying
for a bond in the fall, that means that
you'd have to have an architect on board
by June. June, July, June, July, August,
three months, which means that you have
a month, Kristen staff has a month to
they got to conduct interviews. They got
RFQS and RFPs. And so I think
realistically,
you know, I think we could do it, but
realistically probably June. But then
the question is how much work do we do
between now and June and how much money
do we spend that to get us to because we
could do this in three months and maybe that's the first step get the
architects on board whatever that
three-month time frame is get a number
then and then really take a look at the
bond situation that we're developing in
June and then if we're comfortable that
we believe that we can get a pass then
continue with the drawings at that point
in time But don't commit to doing
everything until we have a much better
understanding of what the overall scope
looks like.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah, I noticed that in the um project
timeline that I think Bob was
presenting, it looks like in that
diagram, the costing isn't done until
September of 2026.
Um, and we would need to file that
information in early August for the
general obligation bond
to give give the the amount that we're
seeking from the voters. So, it it seems like maybe March of 2027
might be more realistic to do a thorough
job. we had to go back and ask the
voters for a supplement when we did the
school bond and that's not something
that we want to do. Um
so
Matt, do you want to ask questions or
should I go ahead? Um,
I know you've said that if the council
endorses this plan, um, that the friends
of the Ross Firehouse will withdraw
their initiative and but it seems like
there's a lot of moving parts. Um,
there's a lot of stuff that still needs
to get done. we're, you know, figuring
out where there's going to be secured
parking for the police, um the public
works yard, um the the detailed
programmatic issues, etc., etc. Um so,
I'm wondering how, you know, how firmly
um do we need to endorse this plan? It
seems like it's going to be iterative. I
think I think we're all very much in
favor of the concept, the conceptual
design. I think the building is
beautiful, but I'm wondering, you know,
what is that sweet spot where where
you're going to get endorsement and
commitment from us and you're going to
feel like, okay, we're going to we're
going to withdraw the initiative because
we have confidence that this is the
direction that the council's going.
>> I could take it. U August August 8th is
the deadline to withdraw the ballot
initiative. So really, town council just
needs to adopt our plan as a new master
plan by August 8th. So that gives you
what is that three months? May, June,
July. Gives you three months. Get your
schematics, get your costing.
You need to adopt the plan before August
8th or or we won't withdraw our ballot
initiative. That that's for certain. Um
so you guys got to come together and
make that decision by then.
>> Okay. Okay, I'm going to have a question
for the staff then about how realistic
that is. Um,
and and I'm wondering in your plan,
um, there's space for fire, but I'm
wondering, are you intending for us to
spend money to build out
facilities for fire? Or is this just
space that could be used later if
funding to operate the fire station is
somehow secured down the road?
The ladder.
So we would not be spending money to
build out a fire station. It's not build
it and they will come.
>> No, no, we wouldn't. No, we wouldn't
have to. I think I think when we go back
and take a look at the program, what we
need to understand is is how can we
bring together certain elements and is
it possible that some of those elements
could be shared, fitness facility,
locker, men and women's locker rooms,
toilet areas, other kinds of things that
show up in different aspects of the
program. So, I think that and and quite
frankly, everything that we've been
looking at in terms of fire side of it,
it's really primarily residential. It's
really primarily the bunks. There's not
a lot of other things that will really
push a very large square footage. So, I
think that um we would be doing the
planning for it, but we wouldn't be
spending I don't think we should be
spending any money until we know exactly
where we're going with it. But from a
planning standpoint, certainly you could
do it and you could do it, design it in
a way that if it didn't pass, then it
could become something else. So I think
where it's located, how it's organized
makes a big difference in terms of
giving us the ability to move forward in
a reasonable way so that we have the
flexibility using it for one thing
versus another.
» Matt, do you have questions?
>> First of all, I want to say thank you to
this committee for putting forth a
really just beautiful plan and really
showing that the impossible actually is
possible. So my first question is is
really for you uh Dan. I um you know
being on this council and going through
this whole what I would say Misha Goss
as a Jew uh is that I was told that you
know you got to trust the experts. You
really you're not listening. You I got
to trust the experts. And you were one
of those experts who um said that this
building could not was not a candidate
for adaptive reuse. And so I'm I'm just
curious if you could share your own um
experience kind of from the letter you
sent the council in July to this plan
today, how you got to this conclusion
that it could be uh an adaptive reuse
project. Yeah, I think it I think it's
part of what you know because I wrote
that letter and and I understand I went
back and read it and I could see how the
some of the misunderstanding might occur
when when we did that study back in
2000.
We were going to move the whole building
out of the flood plane, which meant the
whole including the front of the
building, the criteria was to raise that
up even higher at the time. when you
were looking at that, the cost
associated with putting a new building
up was cheaper than doing a renovation
at that point. So, I think that whenever
you're getting into a renovation project
and it's and I it I think I was
misunderstood because any building can
be renovated. Um I'm in the middle of I
just did one personally on the National
Historic Register up in Oregon. It took
us four my wife and I four and a half
years. should have been torn down and
rebuilt. I could have torn it down and
rebuilt it for less money than it cost
to do the renovation work, but it's on
the National Historic Register. It was a
really important building in town. There
are a lot of compelling reasons to do it
anyways. And I and as I said, I think
that this building is probably going to
cost same as a new building, but there's
a lot of other compelling reasons to
keep aspects of it, portions of it. And
I think that that so it wasn't it can't
be renovated. Of course it can be
renovated, but I think ultimately as I
said before, what we're going to end up
with essentially is a new building.
>> Yeah. No, no, I understand. I just want
to be very clear because part of the
letter said structural framing is
completely inadequate to meet seismic
codes. So there were there had been some
criticism that this building the
foundations it could not support the
essential services act. I I just I I
this is so important because we were
told repeatedly over and over through
this process this this area this
envelope had to be completely raised
because there was no cap there was no
capability under any circumstance that
it structurally could support a modern
firehouse police etc.
>> Um
well I'm not sure that's true. I don't
think that that isn't what I was it is
well it isn't true and there and there
are two things that are one is true is
that seismically it's not anywhere near
up to code so sheer walls all sorts of
potentially foundation reinforcement
work there's a lot of mitigation work
that we might have to do we won't know
until we actually get into the project
but there's also ways to circumvent that
we don't necessarily have to do grade
you know foundation walls we could do
columns and beams So there's always a
workaround, right? And I think that, you
know, again, going back to, you know,
when we look at it originally, it was a
pro bono kind of thing. We went in
there, we did it almost exactly what
we're doing now, but a much shorter time
frame. And and the question at that
point is, is it cheaper to build a new
one and take this one down or not? And
our answer was it's probably cheaper to
build a new one. But our position was at
that time reuse portion of this building
in a way that if you do something new,
it still has the integrity of what was
there before.
>> Okay. So just to be to clarify, there's
nothing structurally wrong
>> with with with what this plan in terms
of supporting an you know essential
services act, police, fire, paramedic.
in your view based on what you have seen
and
>> I'll clarify that because it's it's not
that we the existing structural system
no doubt does not meet code but we can
reinforce that structural system to meet
code
>> okay
>> shear wall steel whatever we need to do
we can we can certainly make that happen
>> okay so question two has to do with the
programming for uh a working modern fire
and paramedic facility
So, I know we just heard some questions
about the the ballot initiative. Your plan here says that you can
completely build a modern working fire
and paramedic facility here
>> and that you have the right square
footage to do that.
>> That's all we know. Yeah. At this point,
yes, the answer is yes. And if we don't
have enough area, there are
possibilities in adding additional area
to the building if we need to. But based
on our outlook, we have 2,000 square
feet more. It doesn't mean that it's
going to plan as efficiently as the
original master plan, the approved
master plan. But I believe that yes, we
can accommodate it. And this next step,
this next three-month effort of
schematic design will tell us that we'll
have much.
>> Sorry. And that schematic design is
basically to design a working modern
fire, paramedic, police
>> facility. and and working modern staff
offices and police department and
because this to me is is the the fire
piece of it is a critically important
piece, but this is a really important
building for everybody, right? So, we
got to talk about all the operations and really bring all of it all of it
together. But the answer is yes.
>> Yeah. So, because there's been a lot of
critical commentary that it cannot
support that. Yeah.
>> So that's why there was no fire because
it could not do everything that you're
saying it can do, which is there's not
enough room and the the building is too
small and the envelope was too small to
support all of these functions that
you've now said that we can. So I I just
again would love for you to confirm the
goal is to program this to support all
those functions and you believe that it
can do that.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> There you go. So, the last thing is I
brought my favorite flyer of all time,
which is the 2020 Town of Ross flyer
that went out to all residents about
what why we could not have a fire
station. And when it says, "What are the
choices on the back?" It says, "For 14.6
million, we can relocate our fire staff
to a neighboring station and not rebuild
the fire station. For 28.4 million, we
can rebuild the fire station." So like
double the cost.
>> The plan that you have brought forward
today is 23 million. It's even this 14.6
million according to the latest estimate
is now 25 million for this original
concept. And you're saying you can build
a fire station and do all of this for 23
which is even less than the town flyer
from 2020 said. How is that possible?
Well, I don't first of all I don't know
because I have no idea what you're
referring to. I think that in all the
conversations that we've had that I
think maybe and I think possibly Bob can
speak to this that the criteria that we
were looking at in terms of a fire
station, the number of people that we
were going to have, how it was going to
be staffed, how it was going to be
functioned, how it was going to function
is different than what I think we've
been talking about over the last two or
three months. It is a fire operation,
but it isn't a full-blown fire station.
That's Bob. I don't know whether
>> Yeah, it'd be helpful because this this is was the crux in the matter in
2020.
>> They said, well, we you know, for 14
million versus doubling the price, you
know what? We can't afford that. But
your plan you're coming forward with
today is even less than this original
even with all the inflation that we So
it and this is just to build it. This is
not operate it. This is just to build
it, which it said at the time was going
to be double. So, I I just I want to
make sure because so many people are
I've heard,
>> we can't afford to build it. We cannot
afford to build a fire station. We can't
afford to build it. But this plan you're
showing is actually very reasonable.
It's even less than that estimate back
then. So, I just want, you know,
sometimes people say things are too good
to to be true. So, I would love for you
to just say explain that because some
people will just be skeptical because
they've been told over.
>> I don't I mean I I'm not sure I can
answer your questions, but I think a lot
of people take a lot of things out of
context, right? And so I think the
answer to the question is let's do the
next stage of planning, spend, you know,
it's not a lot of money. Let's do all
the layouts and everything that needs to
be done to ensure that we meet the goals
that you've outlined. Right. Right now
it's space. It's blocks of space. It
isn't a detailed analysis of equipment
requirements and everything else. And
that does need to happen.
>> But the bids that you you talked about
that Ed Dong talked about are are those
like bonafideed? Are those I mean you
got these bids, what what how how
confident are you in those bids? Because
we we hear all the time that those these bids are are irrelevant. So well I the only answer I can give you is that
I'm confident based on the information
that we were given.
>> Right. That's
>> yeah I just just embellish that the
again the two contractors we work with
are two of the most renowned uh
regionally and you know billion dollar
plus plus uh annual volume. Uh you know
this is in their sweet spot. Uh, you
know, a build group just finished a
historic re uh restoration
uh was that it Huntington Hotel. I mean,
the list goes on. I mean, we did not
include for you the resume of all of all
the projects, the civic centers that each of these companies have done,
but we have great confidence, first of
all, in the selection of contractors we
talked to and the the drill down that
they did in, you know, 24 25 different
uh components of construction and the
fact that they walked through that
building. So, we're we're confident with
that conceptual number. Absolutely.
>> Thank you.
Yeah, Terry, go ahead. Um, so if the
town were to choose to vote for an
operating fire station, the staffing of
it, um, is flooding going to be an
issue?
>> Is what now?
>> Flooding.
>> Uh, the answer is potentially.
>> Yeah. um because the lower portion of
those bays would still be in the flood
zone. If we raise the elevation of those
pads in the bays by a foot, it helps to
some extent, but it needs to go up by
about 2 feet. Um so I think in a and I
would say certainly in a severe
situation, it would make sense to move
that equipment, that truck and the EMS
vehicle to higher ground. So, but it but
with that said, um there are other
mitigation that we're looking at, flood
mitigation techniques that would get us
that extra foot, but I'm I'm there's no
guarantees.
>> Yeah,
>> there's no guarantees. And I I think
that I mean, look at that's part of the
compromise that we're talking about here
is that are we willing to compromise
that or not? Are we willing to
compromise the fact that one of the
driveways doesn't, you know, hit Laurel
Grove head on or not? Right. I do think
there are risk mitigation efforts that
we can undertake to solve those
situations, but it isn't perfect.
>> Okay.
>> It isn't perfect. Right.
>> I notice that uh Chief Mahoney is here.
Chief, would
to be part of the Ross Valley Fire
District and we're talking about flood
control. How important is that for a
fire station, especially one that is
going to go through a renovation?
Yeah, I think um if you looked at the
addendum that u Manager Johnson sent out
earlier or uh this afternoon, um all of
our fire station um engine rooms are are
in the flood zone. Um yes, we do have a
plan to move the the fire engines and we
have specific areas to move them. Um
however, you know, it it is less than
ideal. you know, we deal with it because
that's that's what we were kind of given
through through the many many years. Uh
I think it's also important to recognize
that we've probably uh moved equipment
and uh personal vehicles I would say
maybe three to four times over the last
five years because we we move them also
when it when there's um anticipated
flooding, not just uh we take a
proactive approach to it and we don't
move them obviously when the when the
water's coming up to the to the engine
room doors, but um we have, you know,
there is a significant amount like the
uh gentleman spoke here, there is a
significant amount of um rehab that
needs to be done even even when an
engine room is flooded. But it's so it's something that's going to need to
kind of you know be at the hands of the
council to decide is is that what you
know is that what you're willing to
compromise with.
>> So sorry just because you're up there um
Sleepy Hollow is just completing its uh
re redo, right? The remodel.
>> Yes. And those bays were not raised.
>> No.
>> Why? Why not?
>> Um they weren't raised. I don't I think
because it functionally wasn't possible.
The the fire stations built over the
creek. So um there was a decision made
by the town that um those engine bays
would stay um in the flood zone and that
the remainder of the the building would be raised. And so, hey, so none of
the other uh our sister stations during
their I know Fairfax is doing a small
remodel of their housing essentially
part and the headquarters in Sano, all of them, their bays are within the
flood zone.
>> All of them are within the flood zone.
The the Fairfax remodel isn't really
comparable to be honest with you. It's
an it's an upstairs remodel of of the
second floor, so it's in an an existing
footprint. um there's no work being done
downstairs or in the engine room. And
then for the fire station and fire
station 19, which is the one in San
Ando, that one was a remodel and that
was was mainly funded through FEMA to um
to recuperate from the flooding that station actually incurred. So um
you know, unless we had other funds, we
weren't going to be able to to to raise
the entire fire station. So while not
ideal, basically we're similar to all
the other stations that would be in the
flood zone.
>> Yes. Yeah, you're correct. It it is
definitely not ideal, but all of the
other fire stations are within the flood
zone.
>> Thank you,
» Rich. Do you want to elaborate on the
flood issue?
Yes, Mayor and Council Rich Simmonage,
public works director.
Um, elaborate on the flood issue. Uh,
so just to correct uh Dan's last
statement that or that they're all the
same, all four stations are the the same
with regards to a flood zone. That's not
entirely correct. Um,
Sleepy Hollow, uh, Butterfield Road in
front of Sleepy Hollow is in a 100-year
flood plane. Um, Sanelmo Avenue in front
of the S downtown Sanelmo, it's a
actually in the regulatory floodway.
It's actually a high velocity river
during a flood.
And the fire station in Fairfax,
I think it's Park Road, is also a
100red-year flood plane. The difference
with Ross is Sir Francis Drake Boulevard
is out of the flood plane.
So,
you would
be compelled to
uh design your if you're going to be
designing a fire station in this site,
why wouldn't you have your flood your uh
equipment bays raised out of the flood
plane to access a roadway that's out of
the flood plane. That's the major
difference between Ross
and the other Ross Valley fire stations.
Um to evaluate the flood situation here
in Ross with our equipment base,
there's uh three things, three entities
you need to consider. There's FEMA,
there's our own building code and flood
plane ordinance,
and then there's the essential services
requirements for building a a fire
station. Uh FEMA
is more concerned with with public
safety and building integrity during a
flood. They don't want they don't want
damaged structures, whether it's a
equipment bay or a residence or a
garage.
Uh they want living spaces built out of
the one foot above the flood plane uh to
minimize insurance claims. That's the
NFIP is all about insurance claims.
the building code and the flood plane
ordinance,
they require that the they would require
that the flood that the equipment bays
be raised out of the flood plane the the
2T above the 100year or at the 500year
if there's no other alternative
available. That's that's the
consideration. uh Sleepy Hollow, they
didn't have to raise the base because
there's no other option. You can raise
them out of the flood plane mode.
Butterfield Road is in a 100red-year
flood plane. What's the point? Here in
Ross, that's what staff will be looking
at during the permit process.
We'll be looking for findings as to why
it's not feasible
to
build a new fire station or renovated
fire station where you have the
equipment bays uh out of the flood plane
accessing a major roadway that's also
out of the flood plane. So we want to
staff would want to see reasons why
it's not that's not feasible and we want
to leave the equipment bays where we
where they are. So that's that's kind of
the considerations.
» Thank you.
>> I have a question for Rich just while
he's up there.
>> So when these bays were built in 1995
>> and they were I think three and a half
million. Why was this not uh done back
then? Because we we obviously knew that
they were in the flood plane.
>> Yeah, that's a great question. Uh 1995
is what 13 years after the New Year's
Eve flood. Um
why we did that, I don't know. I I I've
asked myself several times. We had an
opportunity back then to do it right. We
didn't. We have an opportunity now to do
it right. What are we going to do?
And I have a question about when that
decision gets made when when the staff
would make the decision about whether we
would have to raise it two feet or not.
>> So again, it comes back to evaluating
the findings from the flood plane
administrator
uh the building official and it's it it
remains to some point a ministerial
decision. Um,
I think it would need to be and I'm not
fully familiar with a design review
process, ADR and all of that, but I
think the the findings need to be
evaluated at some point like during the
planning process. So, that's where
council would hear, well, we can't do it
because
XYZ.
um yeah, we could do this, but it
doesn't make sense or it's too expensive
because of ABC.
Then you evaluate that for the for the
planning permit, which comes before the
building permit process. I think that's
the process we would uh we would go
through.
I I have one more followup and I think
Dan I it sounded like you said that the
if there were to be fire services down
the road it wouldn't be a full
fire like the other three stations and
maybe I may have misheard you. You were
referring to Bob.
I'm not sure exactly what the question
is, but I
>> Well, I'm wondering if it's if it's
three people to an engine that's what's
being contemplated,
>> right? Yes, that's it.
>> Great.
>> Right. And I think what we had before
was something much more substantial than
that. I think I don't know.
>> Meaning planned before then or no?
>> I don't think so.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> I mean, it's possible. I mean, I you
know, it would be a cost issue. I still
think no matter what we do that is
single building makes the most sense
over the long run. Um
we could build it back end. We could
raise that roof. We could raise the
whole structure up if we have to. Those
things are feasible. It's not you know
it's it's a light frame construction.
It's not heavy, not steel, not I don't
think it's concrete. Is it Ed? Is I
think it's all light. It's all light
frame. So it's all light frame. So
there's you know it would be a cost
consideration. But if we all said we
want to be out of the flood plane, we
got to raise that elevation by 2 feet.
I think the biggest question would be
more on the environmental side of the
equation and bringing the fill in and
then how do we handle landscaping and
some of the other hardcape and that kind
of thing because it would create
potentially a situation where you got to
get the trucks out and they got to be at
elevation coming out of the drives, but
then you really have to raise the whole
parking lot potentially. I think you
really got to play with it and try to
figure out maybe there's ways to even
ramp the site so that parking areas
might be lower than some of the ramping
meaning just simply sloping the
driveways and such that you but you
could you could do it. We could build it
out of the flood plane. It's a I think
it essentially a cost issue more than
anything else.
Just one one more question on that that
as lead agency don't we um have the
ultimate decision authority on these
matters
and maybe it's for Roberta but I I mean
we're the lead agency of this project
and we grant variances all the time so
that's
>> right but you again it comes to back to
feasibility if it's if it's in
determined to be not feasible then
there's there's not so much of an issue
um as far as uh needing to raise it out
of the flood plane or do the the wet
flood proofing and that sort of thing.
So um and again that's that is going to
come I see that as being part of the
planning process the uh the planning
permitting
um
so yeah maybe it is the question for
planning but um it's really kind of
unknown I think at at this point I it it
depends on what
well I mean it's a town project so we
would have to come up with the findings
ourselves elves
to convince the council that this is
something we want to do. It's at at some
point the project gets handed over to
the town. It's a town project. It's a
town-owned
um building. Town's also lead agency in the SE SQA process.
How much do we want to be exposed during
the SUKA process? Do we want it really
tight? Do we want a EIR? Do we need an
EIR? I think we would at least need a
mitigated negative deck because you have
cultural resources. You have I mean look
what happened with the spotted alice
just to get our bridges done. That
delayed the project six months. Winship
bridge cultural resources three years.
Those things need to be all addressed by
the town. We're lead agency and it's our
project.
You know, when you mentioned town, I
mean, it's the council's I mean, we are
the town, the council, right? I mean, so
we delegate those decisions, but it's
the council ultimately that makes the
decisions.
>> That's correct.
» Bill, did you have something?
» I do. Let's see if I can figure out a
way to say this. Um, so I think
education for the bond measure is
important.
Education of the community
for the bond measure is important. And
one of the issues is that there's going
we're going to keep the bays in the back
for potentially a fire station.
Okay. So
there may or may not be a fire station,
right? Um and how do we make sure that
people understand that when they are
voting on this bond measure, it's for
the building, not the staffing. It's
just the building. And that space could
be used for many things.
How do we do that? How do we make sure
that we're transparent about that and
that there's no sort of miscommunication
that you built, you know, I I So anyway,
that's my question.
» You know, I find just telling the truth
usually works.
>> It does. So, you you bet there's going
to have to be an aggressive, persuasive,
>> serious education
um strategy
for the town. And we're going to have to
do it multiple times in multiple places.
» There's no elegant answer to that. It's
just hard work. You got to do it.
» Yes. But I'm saying we have to be honest
that if you build this facility, which
is going to be beautiful, there is room
for
staff and trucks, but that's a
completely separate financial issue.
>> You bet it is.
>> Okay. And I I would want to make sure
that when people vote on the geo bond
that they're voting on the building and
not they don't think that they're going
to be getting an a working fire station
because that's a whole separate issue.
in all kinds of ways, not
the least of which is financial,
>> right? And can we say to people at the
time if they say, "Oh, a fire station,
this is great." Um, what's it going to
cost us to staff it? Do we have that
information?
>> Sure.
>> And can we give that to people?
>> I'm sorry.
>> And can we give that to people when they
ask, they say, "What's it going to cost
me to have the staff?"
I think it would be important for people
to know the January council meeting,
the fire consultants for both sides came
up with almost identical numbers.
>> It was, you know, a million and a half
bucks for a used truck
plus equipment.
>> Mhm.
>> And then there were going to be three
guys per shift. So that's nine plus a
chief plus part-time
um clerical if I remember that correctly
and that would start at around three and
a half million a year.
>> Mhm.
>> And it would and I specifically remember
um somebody in fact I think both of them
saying that the cost of living increase
on that particular segment is twice what
it is for consumer products.
So it's going to be an expensive
process. On year one,
it would be five plus million
and then three and a half million from
that point going forward.
Right? So it's not trivial and there's
this is not like a building. This goes
on for what a decade, two decades, I
don't know how many. Right? So it's a
ton of money.
>> It is a ton of money. And I think people
will want to know how does it affect
them personally? Like what is it going
to cost me?
>> Well, it depends on it depends on how we
raise the money to do that. If there's a
giant sugar daddy that comes in and
writes a huge check, no problem.
>> Perfect.
>> Right. There's a different kind of bond
issue called a melo bond which can be
used for services namely salaries and
the truck, right? But there's no end in
sight to that.
And it's expensive.
>> Yes.
>> And of course, we could always raise the
public safety parcel tax. We would have
to raise it. We'd have to quintuple
that.
And so now you're telling people, by the
way, your parcel tax for the public
safety is now going to be approaching
$6,000 a year.
>> You think they're going to like that?
No. So it is a real puzzle about how to
finance this thing. I've thought about
it a lot.
There's no easy way.
>> Thank you.
>> So, I have one one more question. Um I
it sounds like we need to hire bond
council too to help us draft the legal
documents and the description and and
where would that be on the timeline? Uh
well, at some point before the the bond vote or maybe even slightly
after the actual timing um that I got
from Freriedman was once the um once the
vote has been taken and the twothirds
um threshold has been achieved, it's
going to take three months before the
bonds get issued. Right? There has to be
bond counsel. There has to be an
underwriter. There has to, you know, in
my term, an investment bank to do it. It
has to be rated by S&P standard and
force. And by the way, Freriedman thinks
that the town of Ross
um would get to double A plus possibly a
AAA rating.
And I also asked, by the way, uh this
was um to one of the Freriedman people.
I said, "How often is it that uh the a
wealthy town, so Ross, Piedmont, uh
Athetherton, etc., how often is it that
the wealthy members of the town gobble
up the the bond offering frequently is
the answer."
So,
>> I was actually thinking who's going to
draft all this language that we have to
submit to the register of voters to get
this on the ballot.
>> That's what that's what is all about.
>> Ben's office would do.
>> Okay, Ben. Good. Well, we already have
you.
>> Well, it isn't going to be us.
>> No, I know. I just wondered if we needed
separate bond counsel. So, that's that's
good news. Elizabeth, did you want to
say something?
>> Just one thing. How quickly, if the if
the council approves this plan, how
quickly can we hire an architect? I know
Christa set things in motion already
with the RF cues.
>> Um, anyway, how quickly do you think we
can get an architect hired?
» I I have many things to say and when appropriate and I'd be happy to
respond to that and some other things.
Yeah, I think we should um maybe
wrap the questions up for this esteemed
committee and maybe take a five minute
break and then come back and staff can
be asked questions or you know make
statements whatever and we can have
public comment and then we'll bring it
back for discussion and future actions.
>> Um mayor, may I just ask a quick
question clarifying question of the
team? Um
when in your cost estimates,
this is about the fire station. So I
understand that the cost estimates
include in this very conceptual design
include space for a fire station
and building. Is it correct to say it
includes costs related to the you know
the building out of the shell? Does it
include all the tenant requirements
that fire stations need such as you know
diesel exhaust systems etc etc. Is that
included in the cost estimate?
>> Yeah.
» Yes it is. Exhaust system ffony all it
uh communications. So yes it you
included the whole appliances the whole
fit out.
>> Thank you.
Okay. So, let's take a five minute break
and resume at 9:08.
Thank you.
I think we got out of
>> Let's get started.
Um, okay. We're gonna we're going to
start with um questions andor comments
that um staff has. Do people have
questions for staff?
» Yeah. Uh you know, I just want to make a
comment. We um obviously Christa, we saw
you sent an email at four four o'clock
with a lot of a lot of meaty staff
report and unfortunately it's just it's
not enough time I think for for me at
least to digest so much of um
information and I appreciate very much
that you were trying to get to us some
of your thoughts.
I I I don't know how you guys feel, but
I almost feel like this we all know this is a concept and there's a lot of
details to be worked out still and it
might be helpful to sort of get to that
next stage where they're working with
staff and then come back to us when
because there's so many things that
you've pointed out in your your your
assessment that are just un unanswered
yet because it sounds like staff and the committee haven't really worked
together yet. So, I don't know how
helpful it is really to go through all
the this I mean, welcome to hear it. I'm
just saying it it seems so premature
right now that I I would prefer that we
sort of move forward and see if we all
want this and then let you guys work it
out and then come back to us with
staff's comments because there's just so
much unknown right now and none of us
have really had a chance to go through
your your detailed staff report.
Maybe you could hit the the high the
high notes of what you sent us. And um
you know, my main question is what what
would be your recommended next steps
>> going forward to try to continue to
advance the ball, maybe try to appease
the fourth people with dropping the
initiative. I don't know if that's
possible given when we're going to get
actual cost information, which seems
like after the deadline for filing a
general obligation bond for a November
election. Um, but maybe Christa, you
know, you can give us some concrete
steps that we can take.
>> Sure. Um, thank you, Mayor and Council,
and and thank you to the um the
committee for all the substantial amount
of work that you've done. And I'm super
excited about what I saw tonight. And
you know, the idea of of of as Miss
Buckingham had described to me last week
of tightening up the site and and
building up and I just want to uh bring
it to the council's attention that, you
know, 3 to four years ago when the
council was working on this uh
facilities master plan, that was
actually one of the options that the
architectural firm KPA that was working
on this brought to the council along
with a cost estimate and the council's
feedback and the community feedback at
the time was that it was it was too
expensive. So, I just wanted to remind
you and a couple of you were not on the
council then that this idea was was
brought forward and absolutely let's evaluate it again if that's what
the council wants to do. Um,
and I'm, you know, I'm overjoyed at the
uh at the the interest and the passion
the committee has on being able to help
um to to be a to advocate for any
measure that goes to the community
because it I know Ben's going to like it
when I say this is that, you know, we
cannot we cannot advocate once this goes
on a ballot. This the town cannot
advocate for this. We can educate but we
cannot advocate. So the importance of
having a community group that has
already proven how skilled they are at
engaging the community and um it to be
behind this is just you know I'm super excited about that. Um I wanted
just to make a couple of um uh
clarifications for the council. Um, this
is just a little thing, but as you're
looking at timelines, the date by which
we have to have the council would have
to um take action on ballot measures for
November, and that's going to include
the RVPA ballot measure that'll be
coming forward to for you to discuss in
June. The date deadline is actually
August 7th, not August 8th. So, just
want to make sure you aware of that. And
I was wanted to also clarify and remind
the council when um when Jeff was um was
stating about answering council member
Dowling's questions about the costs of
staffing. This information was provided
to the council last January as part of
the election code report and that three
and a half figure million figure that
Jeff commented on that is in addition to
what we already pay. So on an ongoing
basis, we would have to pay that plus
what we have we've already committed to
pay to Ross Valley Fire Department. Now
I understand certain people believe that
we could perhaps negotiate that down,
but it's still in addition to what we
already pay to have fire service
provided to our community. Um so we you
know we didn't we as staff did not we
didn't have much time to um provide our
um just initial evaluations and kind of
similar to what happened last year when
um the fourth group provided us with
information to put into the agenda
packet. They provided it at 400 p.m. on
New Year's Eve and we had to get out the
agenda packet on January 2nd. this was
for your January 8th meeting. So,
especially over the holidays and because
we're we don't have many staff, we have
we really depend on the consultants that
we had hired to do that report. We
didn't have much time to put together
information for the council in advance.
We did put together information to
provide at the council meeting in a
PowerPoint, but we were um the council
and our town attorney did not allow me
to provide that information. So I
provided that information after the
meeting, a couple weeks after the
meeting if you recall and that
information is available on the website.
So this time I thought let's even though
we just got the information um last week
and it was it you know there were
differences between what's in the
packet, what went into your agenda
packet that you received on Friday and
what was shown today.
I did the best I can to just try to get
some information to the council, some
initial observations. And so I um sent
it to you, as council member Salter um
stated, it was sent very late this
afternoon. Did the best I can to get it
out. It's available on the website. And
what I did was just identify a series of
issues or concerns that the council
needs to take a look at before you
consider amending your facil's master
plan. And so, um, you know, this item is
not before you as an action item
tonight. So, absolutely take a look at
that. I'm you feel free to call me with
any questions you have. Um,
the other clarification I wanted to say,
so I'm again super excited about what
what's been put together, super excited
about the the passion of this group and
very willing as we go through this
design process to work with this
committee or um, and I've been speaking
with my colleagues around the state who
have gone through these processes for
major civic public buildings.
is um sometimes uh uh councils set up a
subcommittee of them of their own of
their own members um to help work on uh
you know the selection of an architect
and and working on a design and and
working on um you know during the
construction process because there's
always going to be changes made all that
kind of stuff. So sometimes councils
choose to do that. Sometimes councils
choose to um establish um committee um
committee groups such as the one that um
you know they established themselves.
This was not put together by the
council. Sometimes that community group
would be established for a specific
purpose. I was speaking with somebody
today where a city in Southern
California used a community group to
help them choose an architect. And then
that community group once that architect
was was chosen and a contract was put
into place then that community group
ended and it went back to a staff
working with those consultants and and
the council. Um and then of course the architectural firms usually have
extensive public out outreach components
of their contracts. So, um,
the other clarification,
so, so there are those different kinds
of options that that council could use
to still draw on the expertise of the citizens committee and expertise of other people in the community that
you you might wish to be uh involved in
this process as we go forward. But
another one of the clarifications I
wanted to make is um that Mayor Prom
Robbins asked of the committee members
is she asked earlier in the meeting
tonight why why would this need to go to
staff? Why, you know, the committee's
doing a great job. Why wouldn't they
just go forward? And um there there are quite a few reasons why. and
you operate under as 95% of the cities
in the in this nation operate under a
council town manager form of government
that is explicitly stated in your
municipal code and your council adopted
guidelines. So you cannot hand this off
to a community group to do and have them
just and have me and my team, right?
Town staff report to me, consultants
report to me and just have us serve as
resources. That's that's not allowed
under your council manager form of
government.
certain aspects of this are that also is
not allowed under state law. It's we
have there are procurement processes
especially when it comes to major public
works projects such as this that um our
town attorney and our public works
director would be more articulate to
describe if the council needs that. So,
and then in addition, I want to remind
you, you also have an I have an
employment agreement with the town. You
set policy. You I have to bring forward
I implement policy. I bring forward
contracts. I bring forward contracts and
I that are reviewed and oftentimes um uh
written by the town attorney. But that
that's how this works. And so I don't
want you to be under
I want you to understand and remind you
that absolutely this group welcome their expertise
in any way that the council wants that
to happen. But this is a town project
that would be run by staff. And we have
to go to the council in many ways. any
contract over $50,000 has to go to the
town council. Um,
so to answer your question, mayor, about
what I see the next steps being,
this is how so we re we um the council
approved our request for qualifications
for architectural and engineering firms
and an affordable housing partner to
work with. Those submitts were due on
April 3rd. We received 10 for the
architectural engineering and we
received two for the affordable housing
partners and I sent the names uh to the
council a few a few weeks ago. Um
we um
staff has been evaluating them as best
we can keeping in mind that we had your
annual budget meeting last week. We had
to put together this meeting in two
weeks before we originally thought this
meeting was going to be. And um so um
what I have done I am um so we received
the 10 submitts to the request for
qualifications. We've begun our
evaluation. Um I'm in the process of
hiring a firm that will serve as um an
owner's representative for this project.
This is something that just about every
city, large or small, ends up doing
because we don't have the staff that is
that um we don't have the staff
expertise to do uh what is needed to be
done. So, I'm going to start off because
remember I I have to take we do have a
budget in the current fiscal year to do
some some work, but I'm going to need uh
anything over $50,000 I need to come to
you. But I do have some money in the
budget to hire um this firm that is very
experienced that um I can hire them on a
t time and materials basis with the with
the uh the priority being to help us
evaluate these submitts and one of the
submitts was Gendler. Gendler was one of
the submitts. So to be able to um
evaluate this, they work with cities up
and down the state that can help us um
come up with some options. So, I could
bring forward to the council um we could
uh an option an evaluation option
because as I mentioned some cities might
want to have a couple of other people
from either maybe a subcommittee of the
council or a few people from the
community or perhaps Miss Buckingham,
she's on your ADR kind of look at these
architectural these submitts and help us
narrow it down to two or three or some
um manageable um number to bring forward
to the council for you to view. I want
to remind you this contract for an
architectural engineering firm is going
to be one and a half to $2 million and I
look to Mr. Weiny for confirmation that
that's kind of in the
>> That's correct.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you.
I think it's one of the reasons that it
might be beneficial to potentially break
it up and to at least get into
schematics and then
>> get some clarification because I think
that number
>> both from an architectural and
engineering standpoint standpoint could
be
>> tightened up. Right. The more
information the better.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um I will
so I'm you know the council meets once a
month. Um, I know that there are there
are several uh time constraints in the
month of May. I know of a council member
who has as a constraint and I know that
a couple members of this committee have
constraints in May, but um so this gives
us time through the month of May to work
on this evaluation.
Your next meeting is June 11th. come
forward at that meeting with, I don't
know, a short list or
recommendation or or a couple of options
on how to how to conduct this
evaluation, then we're going to need to
spend quite a bit of time coming up with
a scope of work because a $2 million
scope of work, we don't we don't want to
have uh a lot of these infamous change
orders, which don't just apply to
contractors. They apply to architects
and I'm going to look to Mr. Whiny.
» Yes.
>> But yes, the answer is do we need a
detailed scope of work?
>> Yes. And the more detailed the better,
right? And the more information the
better because then we're going to get
good numbers and we're going to have
close any gaps or any holes because many
architects will not ask questions
because they know that there's missing
aspects of the scope which allows them
and an engineer and other consultants
that come back later and say, "Oh, well
that's an additional service. Oh, you
didn't tell us that." So I think
spending the time to really go through
and hammer out a very detailed scope is
going to be really beneficial. It's good
for the consultants as well. Right.
>> Okay. Thank you. So um so that process
is going to take time and then
absolutely a $2 million contract. This
needs to come to the council. And one of
the things that I haven't heard much of
this evening,
public input. You you had a lot of
public input. you had a year's worth of
public input when you put together your
facility's master plan. You need to have
public input on amending your master
plan. And of course, this group has you
guys have been meeting um you have not
had public input at your meetings.
You I'm sure have a good feel for what a
lot of members of the public, but you
haven't you you have to ask you have to
give people the opportunity to come and
speak to the council and provide input.
So um and then so we need to get an
architect on board. We get an architect
on board the AR and the one of the first
things the architect could do okay
schematic designs but they could also
the council needs you're going to need
to amend your facilities master plan and
I identified in my memo this afternoon
some things that need to be worked out.
I'm very confident that we can spend
time working those things out and um and
then to get to and we absolutely agree
that you know in in order to get to kind
of that 30% schematic design drawings.
That's what we need in order to be able
to get that cost estimate that will then
help us you know a more specific cost
instead of a range. a more specific cost
estimate that then we can turn over to
our town attorney's office and to come
up with that language for a ballot
measure and be and and at the same time
concurrently we need to be working on
getting an environmental consultant on
board
and we need to be working with um with
political consultants
with um um bond council with our town
attorney's office, our town treasurer
working on um coming up with crafting a
measure that ultimately the council
needs to you need to take action to put
this on the on the ballot. So, um that
is not going to happen in time for you
to make the November agenda November
ballot. I was really happy to learn
today that you can do it. I know there's
some I know the c some council members
have talked about, you know, it's
probably better to do it a general
election, but you can do it a special
election. There's four special elections
next year. Um, and I think that there's
a lot there's a lot of work to be done
in this coming in this coming summer and
fall fall. And I know we can all roll up
our sleeves and get it done. And I'm
excited about this idea. I just want to
make sure that this plan, as Mr. Weine
said in the beginning of his comments of
this presentation is this plan needs to
meet the operational
objectives of our town departments
because you are going to be using I mean
whether it's 22 to 26 to you're going to
be using a ton of public funds
to build this project. It has to be done
well and it has to meet the needs of our
organization and we provide services to
the community. So I think that was was
that giving you an eye that's kind of
what I'm looking at as being a a
timeline. Um
>> that's helpful.
>> Okay.
Thank you.
>> Um
is does anyone have any questions other
questions for Christa or should we move
on to public comment?
Let's move on to public comment. Anybody
in the um chamber who would like to make
public comment?
» Good evening. Uh Michael Rosenb 14
Avenue Ross. Madame Mayor and fellow
council members, first of all, thank you
to the citizens advisory committee. I'm
here to express my profound concern over
the path for has forced upon our town,
especially now that the uh the citizens
advisory committee report makes it clear
that the end result was inevitable. This
ad hoc report serves as a formal
acknowledgement of FORF's own admission.
Staffing and maintaining a fully
functional fire department at the Ross
Civics complex is no longer a realistic
objective. For almost a year, FORF has
disseminated misinformation that has
fractured our community and compromised
the town of Ross's standing with various
Marin County agencies. As a result,
significant taxpayer resources and
administrative efforts have been
squandered on evaluated proposal and a
ballot initiative that were proven
untenable from the start.
In my view as a Ross resident,
accountability is essential and should
start with a formal written apology from
fourth. Furthermore, considering their
status as a 501c4,
I strongly encourage the town of Ross to
demand a full restitution of all
municipal expenses from fourth financial
reserves. The people of Ross are
entitled to a swift resolution to this
matter, beginning with a public apology
and complete financial reimbursement.
While it is my hope that Fourth can
persuade their supporters to endorse the
town's bond financing, such an outcome
may prove elusive. Once their community
realizes they have been misled and
realizes there's no new fire engine is
forthcoming, nor will the response time
lessen in the foreseeable future. Fourth
may find their support increasingly
untenable. Although council members are
restricted from responding during public
comments, I believe that council members
Salter and Robins should take this
opportunity to officially express regret
for enabling actions that disregarded
prior council mandates and for their
association with the dissemination of
unreliable information that needlessly
drew out this process.
» Thank you. Anyone else in the chamber
for public comment?
No one's online.
» Sorry. Um, two two things. Um, I think
we should, we don't have a resolution or
a vote, but I think we should each opine
about whether we like this concept or we
want to go with a different concept. And
then two, and we can break this up if if
we want. Um, two,
does the does the next steps that
Christa has outlined, do those make
sense?
Um, so I will I can go first. I love the
concept. I think it's beautiful. I I
think it, you know, it's the building is
gorgeous. It's a legacy building. I
think you you the committee nailed what
needed to happen. Um and I'm confident
that a lot of the issues that are
unresolved can be resolved um by staff
working collectively, collaboratively.
Um, in terms of next steps, um, I would
like to get an architect hired as soon
as possible. Maybe we could have a
special meeting if, um, if we're
prepared to have a special meeting in
early June to to get going. Um, I I
don't see how, unfortunately, we can
make the, um, the November ballot. I and
I don't want to be I don't want to have
missteps. I don't want to have to ask
the voters later um, for more money. I
don't want to have this blown in an
election. I think we want to do this
once and we want to do it really well.
Um, so I I I think that's Yeah. Next
steps. Okay.
Can I just say ditto?
>> No. Okay. Um, I actually love the
conceptual design. I love the one
building. I think that's I love it being
double story. I think it's going to be
beautiful in relationship to the housing
that's going to be close by. Um there's
so many advantages to the design that's
been set out and I I too agree that we can I think by having uh the staff
work with some of the the citizens to
come up to to work through some of the
problems, we'll get through them. I'm
confident we can do that. Um, and I
think we most likely I also think that
the steps that Christa outlined are
important. I think one of the other
steps might be that we need to have a
chat with paramedics.
Yeah. So that we can bring them along so
that they're part of this and see the
value and the beauty of this one
building. So yeah.
Yes, agree with these comments. Great, job. Thank you so much, everyone.
Uh, makes a lot of sense. I'm I'm fully
supportive of the concept
and, uh, like Julie and Terry, I think
that we have issues that can be worked
out. Skeptical about the time frame. I
hope we can have it on the November
ballot. Um,
that that would be more desirable uh,
for a couple of reasons. I think it has
a better chance actually of passing on
the November ballot. U but um if we
can't, we can. We'll we'll shoot for as
soon as we can next year. Uh but
otherwise, no, I'm I'm fully in favor of
moving it ahead and uh getting
architects on board and getting a
consultant to help us get the right
architects and the right proposal and
whatever else we need to do. Um, in the
meantime,
» so it's baseball season, everybody, and
my two boys play a lot of baseball. And
uh, this this whole situation reminds me
of the Kirk Gibson home run in 1988
where uh, Vince Scolley said, "In a year
that was so improbable,
the impossible has happened." So, first
I want to thank this committee for
coming together and making the
impossible possible.
Um, there's been a lot of discussion
about the fire station
and that I I there's all these issues
that get conflated, but the first and
foremost issue that had to be solved
piece by piece was is it possible to
rebuild? Okay, if you can't rebuild it,
there's really no point in anything
else. And the the answer before us today
is 100% we can rebuild a fire station
here. It can fit and it's cost-effective
to build it. And that uh was not really
uh answered up until before your
committee formed. It was told that this
was absolutely impossible. So, first of
all, thank you for coming together and and explaining that. I also want to
thank the friends of the Ross Firehouse
for their and the members on this
committee. uh Bob Herps and Ed Dong for
bringing forth to this community this
notion that this is possible, okay? That
it's possible, that you can build this
fire station and you could afford it
because again, this community was ready
to demolish everything around us and
move forward. And that um that
perseverance is so important in a
community that cares so deeply about
this issue. And so I really want to
thank the members of that that group for fighting all the way here.
The last uh point I want to make is it's
very nice because we we said there's a
shell of a building, but maybe it will
have a fire station, maybe it won't. I
don't know. And so everybody loves the
shell. Well, there's a talk about this this ballot initiative. I actually
think it's great we have it because you
guys keep working your your way through
it. We can have the the town vote and
decide what which plan they want. Do
they want the fire station or not in
November. It's not that far away to
really make that decision and put this
to bed. And it will be a Democratic
vote. Everybody will have their say.
Everybody would say, "I can't afford it.
We can't afford the operations."
Whatever your opinion may be, let the
people vote and then it will be done
because we will have said instead of us
five trying to read and understand what
everyone says, they get to vote and
inform us and then we move forward and
say that the democratic process happened
and nobody wanted it. So we we built a
senior center. But if they do want a
fire station, then I think we need to
accept that and use the programming and
the time to to come together to make
that a reality. So I view the uh ballot
initiative again. Thank you friends of
Ross Firehouse and thank you to all the
people that signed that petition because
I think it's a useful tool in this
process going forward to get what the
people really really want out of this.
So again, just to summarize, thank you
from, you know, as a citizen, thank you
so much. We are so lucky to have the
resources in this room and on this
committee. It's unbelievable. And it's
something I've said for a long time. We
need to stop uh just staying using our
staff and staff is so small on this
town, but the resources of the town's
people is so big. Let's tap those
resources. Let's continue to use them.
And you see the magic that can happen in
two months. I know it's a long way to
go, but if they can do this much in two
months, I can see this really coming
together in a very short time. So, thank
you and I appreciate all the work and I
hope you continue to be a part of this
process moving forward.
» So, for the first um question about the
proposal,
um I think it's wonderful. Um
I think it's hard to not
see that it has it has something for
everyone. It really meets everyone's
needs. It it it addresses the interest
in having the paramedics stay here. It
addresses the possibility of a fire
station. It addresses the desperate need
for new town offices and police um
facilities.
Uh and it's beautiful. So I I I think
that it will be very I'm hopeful that there will be widespread support. I it's hard to see that there wouldn't
be because the town needs this and it's
very beautiful and it leaves room for um
different programs that people are
interested in. Um I think that um you
know there was a comment about you know
that that it's hasty to just
approve this instead of our current
plan. You know again our current plan
hasn't gone anywhere. I don't think we
should be hasty, but I think that this
is so much better than concept B that uh
I think we should move forward fairly
quickly. We can have some some very good
outreach. So, for example, next week
there should be a very thorough article
about what this entails, what this
proposal is, and the article can be
taken almost directly from the uh slide
deck that the committee gave us. And I
think that that would be a very useful
way of of sharing with the community
what what this is. RPOA could also have
a a meeting focused on the new proposal
or could have as one of its agenda items
um this proposal uh andor uh by way of
education not uh advocating but uh send
out an email um about this proposal. The
town could also send out an email. So I
think that the outreach doesn't have to
take months of public meetings. I think
it can be done very quickly um online
and by email and with some uh and by the
with the Ross review.
Um as as far as the next steps um I I
think we should move very quickly to to
get this to make this happen. I I think
we should try for the November ballot,
but it's it's comforting to me to know
that March is an option. Um because that
doesn't delay us that much. And I think
that would keep the building program
pretty much on schedule to keep the
paramedic station um uh on on track. Um,
I think as far as how we do it, I mean,
I recognize we're a council town manager
um, structure, but I would hope that
this committee can remain front and
center uh, with all of the decisions
because they're just so um, uh,
experienced and also they're very
willing to work on this and based on
what's happened in the first two months,
their work is phenomenally successful. I
mean, as I said before, they've they've
transcended politics and personalities
and come up with a very beautiful plan.
Um, and I would hope that if our next
step, if our first step is to hire an
architect, I would hope that the
committee can um be part of that group
that's that's evaluating the proposals
because I think that the committee has
more experience than almost, you know,
any single person we might hire and
certainly any any, you know, any any
other group. I mean we have just an
amazing committee of of experienced
talented people. So I think it's really
important to keep them front and center
with all decisions. Um and you know you
know the the the town manager of course
implements the decisions and runs things
but the council you know is ultimately
responsible. So I I you know my my next
steps would be hire an architect uh and
then but keep the committee front and
center for all of these steps moving
forward.
I Matt, I have a follow-up question. Are
you proposing that there be on the
November ballot a parcel tax asking
residents to tax themselves to have fire
services in Ross? Is that what you're
saying?
>> No, no, the ballot initiative, sorry,
it's already the ballot initiative that
the fourth has that has been approved.
It's on the November ballot and all it
says is should there be should the town
have basically facilities to support a
fire station? Yeah. A working fire
station. So the what I'm saying is it's
already on the ballot. So in terms of
this moving forward then we would have
an answer of what we should be building
in this box because the people will have
answered that.
>> But but didn't didn't force say if we
commit to this they would rem remove it.
I mean, isn't that a decision for Fourth
to make?
>> Of course, it's a decision, but I think
the fourth people all are under the
impression that committing to this is
committing to a fire station, but that
doesn't sound like what we heard today.
So,
» everyone who signed the petition wants
to be able to vote for a fire station.
So, there I don't think anyone's pulling
that back if we're just committing to a concept that's a box, but we don't
know what's inside it. Yeah, I I agree
that they signed the petition. It just
seems like they don't really know what
it means to have a fire station and pay
for the operations of a fire station.
So, to me, the initiative is kind of a
hypothetical
because the town doesn't have the money
to pay for fire services. Um, and you
know, maybe we need to have an offline
conversation with Bob to see how how
committed he feels like we are. Um, I
think there's still an opportunity to
talk about BORF pulling its initiative.
I don't think that's ended. That would
be something that I would prefer because
otherwise it's it's I mean, who would
vote no? If you have no concept of how
much it's going to cost you, why would
you vote no? It's kind of like, why
wouldn't you sign the petition if you
don't know how much it's going to cost,
right? It's kind of just a feel-good
moment. So, I'm optimistic that maybe we
can have some offline conversations with
the four people and um explore that. Um
>> I really hope that that's not on the
ballot because that is going to be
completely at cross purposes to what
we're trying to do. We're trying to get
everybody to come together, but that
ballot initi initiative is it's
mandatory. We have to do it and we know
we don't have the money to do it. So,
there would have to be some opposition
pointing that out and that's just going
to cut against trying to all come
together and get this passed. I can't
imagine why that should be on the
ballot.
>> I think the best way to
>> this is on the ballot. So, it's not a
hypothetical. It was voted on by the
people. this they they they they put
this petition forward and it has the
support of the community. All the
initiative asks is for the community to
vote yes or no. And so I will say this
in a campaign all these issues that
you're bringing up that it's too
expensive, no one can pay for it, then
people will vote no. So I you know I
don't I don't know why everyone's so
worried about this this initiative. I
actually think it's it's it's going to
help us make our decision because all
the things you're pointing out you're going to say we can't we don't
have the money. We can't afford to
operate it.
>> I think if we
>> the point is it's on the ballot. There's
no you you're asking people to pull it,
but it's on the ballot.
>> The agenda item tonight. It's not about
pulling or not pulling the or trying to
get the proponents to pull or not pull
the ag the initiative. It's next steps
as far as moving forward with the
concept that's been brought before you.
So obviously it's implicated and you're
hoping some council members are hoping
that it would be pulled. We can't get it
back and forth about the merits of the
initiative.
>> And I think the best next step to bring
people together is to move as quickly as
we can with this plan which I think is going to be very wellreceived and we
have a wonderful committee working on it
for us.
>> Can I just make a comment?
Elizabeth, I agree with you. The the the
committee has been phenomenal. In two
months, they've come up with just a
beautiful conceptual design. I think if
we're moving forward, I think the um
it's the town manager
working with some of the citizens to
come up with to deal with some of the
issues, but it really is in the hands of
our staff now to move forward with the
help of the citizens.
>> I mean, with the help of the citizens
committee.
>> Oh, the help of the citizens committee
or other people that you may want to
pull in.
>> I just wouldn't want to. I mean, you
just have this amazing group. I mean, I
think the key is keep I mean, I I think
they will help sell this more than any
change in a committee, unless they need
to bring in some people.
>> I think Christa would I I would trust
Christa to to work with people to make
it happen.
I there I what I like about the working
especially with the committee is that
they've really gone beyond all of the
politics of it, all the personalities.
And I think that of course they'll be
working with Christa. Of course they'll
be working with a project manager. We
hired a project manager. That's the
whole point.
>> But you know I I don't think we can pull
this off without these guys. I think we
need them.
>> I think it's a staff and citizens
working together.
>> Okay. I think we have exhausted this
topic. Um,
thank you committee. You you guys are
tremendous and we really owe you a huge
debt of gratitude especially for doing
this so quickly and so beautifully. So,
thank you.
» Can I make one more comment? It's just
that if we want to move this forward,
it's it should not be seen as difficult
to have a special meeting from time to
time. It only takes a 24-hour notice.
Council members, at least one or two,
can zoom in. It's very easy to arrange,
especially if we have things to approve.
You know, not a lot to discuss, but
things to approve that we want to move
forward on. We should all be available
for special meetings.
>> I think I mentioned that in my remarks,
too. Special meeting. Um, okay. Now
we're moving on to number
13. Town council to consider approval of
the town of Ross annual financial report
for the year ended June 30, 2025 with no
findings.
Town manager Johnson.
>> Yes. Uh thank you mayor and council
members. Uh the item before you tonight
is just as the mayor just described it.
Um, you know, each year the town engages
the services of an independent auditor
to pre prepare an audit of the town's
financial statements. Mr. Nathan Edelman
was the partner in charge of this audit
and he will provide a brief presentation
via Zoom. Hopefully, he's still still
there. It's a little bit later than we
thought it was going to be. Um, do you
see Mr. Edelman?
>> I and I I'm here if you can hear me.
>> Oh, thank you. Thank you for hanging out
with us this through this evening,
Nathan.
>> I'm still here. Okay,
>> I'm gonna hand it over to you if that's
okay, mayor and council.
>> Yes.
>> Okay, take it away.
>> All right, thank you. Let me share my
screen.
Okay, I hope that is up.
Take a
excuse me, we'll take a quick turn and
talk about accounting for a few minutes.
My presentation is brief,
but good afternoon or I should say good
evening. My name is Nathan Edelman with
ID Bailey. I am the independent external
auditor and I'm going to just really
give you an overview of the audit. It is
intended to be concise and really just a
10,000 foot executive overview of
results of the audit and the the scope
of of the audit.
Yeah.
the bottom line results. So, this slide
is really the end result of of the audit
and it's it's I I'll call it good news,
but the bottom line is that the town
received an unmodified what we call a
clean opinion on the financial
statements on an internal controls over
financial reporting. We identified no
significant deficiencies or material
weaknesses
for the GAN appropriations limit. We
noted no exceptions. And really what all
that means in in practical terms is that
really the the financial statements that
were previously presented, I'll talk
about the scope in in a second, but it
means that the financial statements
previously presented are accurate, that
they are complete.
really we we identified no reportable
issues in in the areas that we that we
tested which is is the stuff here
>> what is it that we when I actually say
audit what is it that that we did the
audit covers the the scope covers the
town's fiscal year 2025 financial
statements and related disclosures and
really that means auditor goes in and verifies you know cash and payables
receivables
how much money is sitting in the bank as
of that cuto off period. That's what the
auditor is is looking to to verify.
We look at internal controls relevant to
financial reporting as as part of
planning the audit and where where
procedures are performed over that the GAN appropriations calculation focus
is not so much on the debits and credits
not about the accounting but really
about the accuracy of of the
calculation.
And I I always just say our our role as
auditors is to ask the questions. We
look at source documents, but really the
auditor is simply a reporter just
reporting back the results of of the
audit. You know, management of the town,
which I I guess is Christa in in this
case, and you know, really the folks in
the accounting department, which I
realize for you is is one person, but
they are responsible for, you know,
supporting the audit. They have to
compile the accounting records. They
have to send out confirmations. they
need to answer our our questions. All we do is report back, but the people
or the person in the in the accounting
department is really the one that has to
do what I'll call is is is the hard work
and then other other required
communications. Audit audit standards
say that we are required to communicate,
you know, several items to those charged
with governance. And really in in short,
there were no matters arising from the
audit that required additional
communications or additional attention
from the from the town council.
I'll just just close it with the the
audit is an after-the-act affirmation
that the financial information
previously presented to town council is
complete and accurate. Like I said, we rely on the accounting team to send
those confirmations. And in one of the bullets on here, audit difficulties,
and I'm pleased to report there were no
difficulties in in conducting the audit.
Everybody that we worked with is
supportive. Uh, excuse me, it's very
late. Everybody that we worked with is supportive of the audit and and they
get us what we need so that we can we
can get in and and and move on. So, with
that, I will let me stop sharing my
screen. Um, that that is my my
presentation and I'm happy to take any
questions from the from the council.
>> Thank you. And council members, any
questions?
Matt.
>> Um, so, uh, thank you. Did, did you look
at any of the internal controls? Was
that a part of this audit?
>> Yeah. So, in internal controls are
looked at as as part of the audit. And
if there are what we call control
deficiencies, significant deficiencies,
material weaknesses, those are things
that would be required to be reported as part of the results of the audit.
>> And sorry, so were any of those um
identified
>> there? And yes, there there were no
internal control deficiencies that we reported.
>> Great. Thank you.
>> There's no one in the chamber. Anybody
online for public comment?
>> No one online. Mayor,
>> do we need to have a motion?
» Yes, please. Just a comment. I mean,
it's great to have a clean audit,
especially as we're moving ahead
building, asking for money, you know, to
have to have a clean audit is fabulous.
So, thank you to the staff.
>> Yeah. And I have I have one comment to I
know it's late
>> at these financial things. We should
definitely bring him to the finance
committee, but again, this is such a a
gold star for our staff, especially when
we just hired a new accountant and we're
moving um from from the consultant to
just have a flawless audit come through
and no internal controls. These are
really, you know, these these are really
things to be proud of. and they don't
get all the the they don't get all the agilation, but it's it's really
impressive and I uh I wish we we gave it
the airtime it deserves. So that's why I
hope we sort of meet as a finance
committee a little more because these
are really really impressive and I'm
very thankful that that I know my town
has a clean audit, no no internal
controls issues and continues to show
surpluses and these these should be the
high, you know, I mean every other town
is struggling. They can't, you know,
Fairfax can't pave its roads. Like, it's
really, really, really impressive.
Really,
>> has big issues, too.
>> And it's not touted enough. I mean, of
course, the fire station and all the
fighting gets the news, but this is
really, really impressive.
>> But maybe that should be a Ross review
article. I mean, it's it's people should
know.
>> Yes,
>> absolutely. Yes, please.
>> So, I just want to say thank you to
Christa and your team.
>> Really good job. and I know it's ongoing
day in and day out throughout the year.
So,
>> thanks. I'll make sure to pass on your
comments, your kind words to our senior
accountant, Elena Carina, because she just started this past uh late June.
And um and we do appreciate the the the
ability also to be able to call on
Nathan, our auditor, to to ask some
questions from um time to time. So,
>> thank you.
>> We need a a motion to approve this.
>> Yes, please. So moved. Second.
» Council member Dalling.
>> Yes.
>> Council member Kercher.
>> Hi.
>> Council member Salter.
>> I.
>> Mayor Pro Tim Robbins.
>> I.
>> Mayor McMillan.
>> Yes.
>> Motion passes 5-0.
>> Thank you. The last item on our um
administrative agenda, item 14, is a
discussion regarding the wording of the
respectful dialogue section on town
council agendas.
>> Um thank you, mayor and council members.
I'd like to turn it over to our new town
clerk, Zach Koblick,
who uh prepared this agenda item and is
just going to give you a brief uh
presentation. So, thank you.
Christa. And good morning,
Mayor McMillan, or good evening, rather.
>> Mayor McMillan and members of the
council. My name is Zach Kobe, the town
clerk and senior management analyst. Uh
before the council tonight is a
discussion item regarding the language
in the respectful dialogue section of
the town council meeting agenda
template. Mayor Prom Robbins has
suggested that the council that the
section be revisited and the council
asked that it be brought back as a
discussion item. The purpose of the
these disclaimers, generally speaking,
is not punitive. They're meant to
they're not meant to shame anyone or to
respond to any specific past behavior.
Rather, they serve as a proactive
statement of expectations for everyone
participating in the meeting, council,
staff, and the public. The goal is to
encourage meaningful civic
participation,
uh protect the inclusion of diverse
perspectives, and minimize the kind of
disruption that can derail proceedings
or cause community members to hold back
from speaking. The town's current
language, which has been omitted from
tonight's agenda, but has been on the
past four or so agendas, is the same
language used by the Marin County Board
of Supervisors, and I'll read it in full
now. The Town Council of the Town of
Ross encourages a respectful dialogue
that supports freedom of speech and
values diversity of opinion. The town
council, staff, and members of the
public are expected to be civil and
courteous and to refrain from
questioning character or motives of
other participation of others
participating in the meeting. The town
expects that speakers will not use
threatening, profane, or abusive
language which which disrupts, disturbs,
or otherwise impedes the orderly conduct
of the town council meeting. Members of
the public may comment on any item on
the agenda during count town council
consideration of the item. The mayor
will invite public comments following
the staff presentation and prior to
final council deliberations. Each
speaker will be allotted time for for
comment as set by the mayor, generally
three minutes.
For reference, in tonight's discussion,
I reviewed how other jurisdictions in
Mering County approach this. The town of
Fairfax has a more detailed version that
addresses specific behaviors, applies
standards explicitly to all viewpoints,
and outlines a graduated response from a
warning to removal for disruptive
conduct. The city of Nevada similar
similarly has language establishing the
mayor's authority to remove disruptive
speakers and emphasizes a commit that
comments should be directed to the
council and address issues rather than
individuals. Several other marine cities
and towns including centerfell Sanelmo
larks corderea and salelo do not include
a section like this in their agendas at
all. All those comparisons are included
in the staff report for your reference.
The recommend the recommendation this
evening is simply for the council to
discuss the current language and provide
direction to the town manager on whether
it should be retained as is revised or
eliminated from the agenda template.
There are no financial impacts
associated with this item. And with
that, I'm happy to answer any questions
and we'll turn it over to council for
discussion.
>> Thank you, Zach. Um Elizabeth, why don't
you go first?
>> Okay. Have any questions?
>> No questions. Anybody have any
questions?
>> I'll just make comments. Um, let me get
public comment. Any public comment?
>> No public comment online.
>> Okay, great. So, now Elizabeth, why
don't you
>> So, I thought we should talk about this
because I thought it seemed kind of
insulting to members of the public, you
know, using words like please don't be
threatening and don't use profanity. And
I have to say there are certainly, you
know, and be respectful. I I think that
for the most part members of the public
who come to Ross Council meetings are
very respectful. I think there are times
when we as a council aren't respectful
and we should probably address that
amongst ourselves. But I don't think
that putting in, you know, a notice like
this into our um agendas
fixes that. And I think it it kind of
insults our members of the public
because they'll read it and they'll
think, "Oh, we we must be a bad group."
Um Belvadier as you mentioned um Zack
you know Belvadier Tibbrron and Cordera
Larks Sanble San Rafll none of those
towns have anything about respectful you
know anything like this it's Fairfax and
they're known to have kind of wild
meetings and then the county and I don't
really know about their meetings but I
don't I think it's not even I I think
it's not necessary and I think it's kind
of insulting. So that was why it kind of
feels like we don't trust our members of
the public. So I would just leave it
this very help these very helpful lines
about um how you you know when when uh
you can speak to an item you know it
mentions like you could that there will
be comment after uh after each item and
you get three minutes or something but
um yeah the mayor will invite public
comments following the staff
presentation uh I think that's very
helpful but I wouldn't put this in at
all and for those reasons
>> I I I feel very different I don't see it
is disrespectful. Um I I know it's uh
for a lot of commissions uh in the
county as well as for the board of
supervisors, this is in the agenda
always at the top and it really is it's
just a reminder. People most likely
don't read it after a while. It's a
reminder that when you're in a public
meeting to have respectful dialogue.
Well, maybe if if people think there
should be something, maybe it could be
paired down so that it's just the town
council and town of Ross encourage
respectful dialogue in comments at
council meetings and leave it at that
and not go into, you know, be civil, be
courteous, don't question the character,
don't use profanity, don't use abusive
language, don't threaten. I just feel
like really that's what we're telling
our town about. I mean, I don't feel
like we need it. So, I would do nothing
or I would make it you know you know
please be respectful
that would be my my position. I have a
suggestion since the two of you have
strong feelings about this and the two
of you are our procedures governance
gurus. Maybe the two of you can come up
with something that you both accept and
we can um discuss it.
>> Right now we we clearly have totally
opposite views.
Wouldn't it be helpful to hear the other
three of you
>> just I mean to direct us because you
know we're here and have we already know
what we each think and and why. So,
>> so my my opinion is um I think these
things got put on because of outbursts
like at the meetings where people, you
know, you had to they had to deal with
it. Like Fairfax and like like Elizabeth
said, I don't since I've been on the
council, I actually think it's been very
courteous and we haven't had outbursts.
We we did have that one guy member on
the call who was anti-Semitic, I
believe, and and we just shut it down
really quickly. So sometimes um
sometimes it's like like the the uh the
government that governs least is best.
You know, sometimes there's that
philosophy like are we searching for a
problem by putting it on? But but I
supported you in putting this here
because what I would say is I actually
agree with what was why don't we pair it
down a little bit. We could do that. you
know, like just just have the we we
encourage respectful dialogue and you
know what, if it gets bad and we really
have to sort of be more pedantic and say
like, you know, or prescri sorry,
prescriptive, yeah, no profanity and no
this and you'll have three minutes, you
know, because we have to we have a
problem. But just saying we support, I
actually think it'd be very elegant,
like a mission statement kind of because
actually it's so long. I actually don't
know if anyone's gonna read it, Terry,
because I I wanted people to read it and
actually be like, "Oh, you know, this
town respects respectful dialogue." I
like that. You know, something easy that
they'll just see every time. So,
>> I agree. I think we could pair it down.
U I I think it's important to have in
respectful dialogue because I think that
sort of fits into our tell goals. So,
yes, I'll do it. I'll work with
Elizabeth. Let's I'll take a draft. I'll
share it with you. You take a draft.
I'll share it with you.
>> Okay.
>> I agree. Just tone it down a bit. I I I
agree with it. Just
>> the first part of it is fine.
>> We really haven't had that kind of
problem. Thank goodness. And if we do,
we can be more specific. But, um, it's just nice. Like, we're all we're
all here to have a rational
conversation. Let's remember that to be
respectful. I'm I'm fine with that.
>> I think Bill, we've had some issues on
the council. We've had some
disrespectful issues on the council. Um,
and there have been a couple of meetings
where people have uh spoken, the public
has spoken and not always been
respectful. So, I think it's not that
we've never had any problems we have. I
think maybe they're in the past.
>> Let's hope they're in the past. and
we'll look forward to your revised yes
shorter language.
All right. Um, number 15.
>> Yes.
» With conclusions or come up with a
statement that they both agree on and
give it to the town manager. Yeah.
>> And not bring us back on the agenda. I
think that would be preferable. We trust
you to come up with something that's
great and so we don't have to discuss it
at the council again. Thank you, Ben.
>> Does everyone agree with that?
>> And if the council doesn't like it, it
can come back on the agenda.
» Number 15, no action items, council
correspondence.
Anything
future council items?
» I have a proposal
that we adopt a rule that's similar to
MCE's rule that we're going to adjourn
by 10:00 unless a majority of the
council agrees to go beyond 10:00.
We're not that far beyond 10:00, but I I
think we ought to have a goal. and out
of respect for the people who come
before us, but also out of respect for
ourselves.
We already have a rule on the books on
that, but it's a different hour. It's
midnight and we have to take a vote at
11. So, I think your proposal is to
bring it to 10:00 and, you know, take a
vote at 9:00. Would that be the
proposal?
Well, you know, the way it works at MCE
is the vote is there is either a vote at
10 o'clock or we're adjourned. And uh
the last time we simply adjourned it. We
didn't finish the
>> we didn't finish the calendar. Now, of
course, MC with 34 people, it can go
quite late, but still I I think we ought
to have a goal. Try to get out of here
at least by 10. And often we are, you
know, sometimes quite a bit earlier. I
mean, if there's a lot going on, we're
all going to vote to carry on another,
you know, I mean, it could be a
discussion and vote at 10. You know, I
don't think you can decide at 9ine if
you're going to close at 10:00. It's got
to be at the time if we do it at the
school had 11. Remember, we used to have
to take a vote at 11 if we wanted to go
past.
>> Yeah. and and council meetings that I
was attending in the you know mid2010s
they would go until or maybe it was 2008
they would go until 1:30 in the morning
>> that was before ADR so they did all
those planning projects at the meeting
>> y
>> well just I support bill I support in
bringing this forward and and and
discussing it and talking about a 10:00
uh meeting time and at that 10 o'clock
should we continue or should we Stop.
>> Is that
>> Yes, sir. Basically,
>> yes. I mean, if witnesses are here and
we're working on it.
>> Yeah, we would just continue.
>> We'll continue it.
>> So, he's saying move it to change the
rule to 10 and to um make the not nine
but at 10 discuss continuing or jouring,
>> right?
>> And so, we bring it back for discussion
or could we refer to the procedures
manual group or sorry to that government
committee? Either way, however you want
to handle it. Since you're meeting
anyway, you might as well do it. But but
it it I don't think let's just put it on
the calendar is my proposal.
>> Yeah, I think the agenda is better than um Terry and me because it's got to
be a consensus.
>> Okay. And see um the post office table.
The next meeting is Thursday, June 11th.
Does anyone want to do that?
» I could.
>> I'm sorry. Who could? Elizabeth.
>> I could.
>> Terry. Okay,
thank you.
So, it's Terry and Elizabeth. Is that
>> Sure.
>> Okay, great. Thank you. Meeting
evaluation
comments.
You know, I just have one suggestion,
Christa. You know, you said that was as
soon as you could get that information
out. And my suggestion would be um if
you know that there's going to be some
last minute stuff that you don't have
ready yet, just send it you know a few
days ahead say you know be expect new
information you know day of the meeting
so we'll know to look and leave time to re read it. That would have, you
know, just that was that one little
thing would have helped the meeting for
me. Just if id known that there was
something coming, I could have blocked
off the time. And it's okay if it's
late. If I if we knew or if I knew, then
I would have been in better shape to
read it.
>> Yeah.
>> I will um attempt to have my brilliant
ideas earlier than
9:00 a.m. on the morning of the agenda
meeting, which is when I had my
brilliant idea. So, but no, I I I hear
you and yeah, I will absolutely do my
best. the
I would like to note that the the
committee was not going to put anything
in your packet.
I I had to talk with them extensively so
that because I know that the council
it's beneficial for the council to have
information before the weekend um to be
able to start looking at it and thinking
about it and so thank you.
I just want to say to keep this meeting
going on even a little longer, I'm only
teasing, is that I thought that the flow
of the meeting went really well. I
thought the flow of the meeting went
really well today. I I thought um the
presentation was good, the questions
were thoughtful, the comments were good.
Um it felt like a very thoughtful
meeting. And Julie, you called breaks.
That which was really helpful. You
called breaks. We had a couple that that
really helped kind of focus people.
Otherwise, I think people just would
have been tired and wouldn't have been
as focused. That was really helpful.
>> I mean, my my comment is um I thought it
was really respectful and everyone went
through it. these the fire station is
the most controversial topic we deal
with and I thought everyone asked really
good questions and wanted answers and I thought it was handled really really
well and sometimes like this is what
progress looks like we are making
progress I know it doesn't feel that way
because we're always looking ahead and
the next battle but honestly the fact
that we all liked the concept and sort
of really this group coming together and
really doing a lot of hard work it's
progress and I just want to acknowledge
that because sometimes it doesn't feel
that way and we all sort of leave and
feel bad about something. I think we
should feel good that we've we've made
progress and I appreciated the
questions. I I thought everybody I know
I actually I look at Bill a lot and I
wonder he's like Natt stop talking stop
I see it in your face. Stop talking.
Stop asking questions.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But I I actually felt like
everyone didn't like dominate or ask too
many questions or I I thought everyone
was very fair in what they asked and
tried to move things along. And I
appreciate Ben you sort of saying like
let's not veer totally off on you know
on this issue of the ballot initiative
or we you know we always get into like
oh what may and um sometimes I think
it's really good to focus on what's
right in front of us right now. Let's
just try to solve that piece and we'll
deal with the next piece in the next
issue. The last thing I want to say is
we I think we all should be very open to
zooming for like a special meeting or
things as we start thinking through how
to process what's going to happen coming
up is these meetings end up being so
much because I think Chris is like you
only meet once a month and I've got to
get a lot covered. But if we're all
willing to say, hey, let's just zoom if
you need our guidance on something to
try to keep things moving quicker if
that's helpful. We can't you can't do
Zoom.
>> No.
or just but what I say is being open to
meeting more than um the once a month
sort of just to help process things
through. I'm totally willing to do it.
I'm just saying I I I want us to be able
to be responsive to the committee and to
Christa and try to process. So our
willingness to say, "Hey, we'll we'll be
there. We'll meet is very helpful." I
I'm totally committed to doing that
because I want us to move it this I
don't want us to be the roadblock. I
mean, if two can zoom in, that makes it
pretty easy for us as a group to have a
special meeting, you know, for
administrative things to approve, not if
we're trying to discuss something.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm sorry. You're talking about having a
special council meeting and have two
zoom in and the other three be here. Was
that what you just said?
>> If if there's something that needs to be
moved on quickly to approve something,
» yes, but you can't do that on a regular
basis. You can't you you have certain
reasons why you could participate
remotely. you
» you can only miss you can only do it for
certain reasons and
>> well no you can under the old Brown Act
rules which still apply if you publish
the agenda with their location and they
post the agenda at that location
>> you don't need to go for the just cause
reasons that the just cause kicks in
only if you want to do remote after the
uh agenda has been published so you
still can have two council members zoom
in if we know that ahead of time and we
publish the agenda with at their
locations.
>> And so could a council member do that
unlimitedly? So could a council member
do that all the time?
>> Yes, you can follow that process
that make their location part of the
public meeting and then the public would
be eligible to go to wherever that
address posted even if it's their homes.
>> Correct. You have to open up that
location to the public should the public
want to be there. because I've zoomed a
lot actually for for these meetings and
done that. I know you did one time. So,
I'm just saying because the summer
everyone's going to be traveling and I I
know how it is. So, I I just want and I
don't know if you guys will agree just
to be be available.
Yeah. So, let's all be open to that. And
Julie, you meet all the time and say
like let's call a special meeting to get
this processed.
Although I must say trying to set those
meetings sometimes can be tedious for
staff. So good luck.
» We done with any eval.