and then Ross.
>> Thank you.
PowerPoint.
>> I don't know if uh
it doesn't work.
No, I have to like log in.
>> Sign in. Just sign into your account.
>> Yes, it'll work. Put in your You want me
to put in mine?
>> Am I not
a ton of raw?
» Thank you for listening.
You're going to have to do
» Wait, what? Password.
» Hi everyone.
Wait a few minutes.
» Yes.
You want to try your just be Zach?
>> Yeah.
>> Damn.
Uh Zoom and undo the video. Is it
Well, give us a second.
>> Our power point isn't working.
>> Okay.
>> Well, that's just because of us. It's
>> It's not you guys.
>> Okay.
>> So, you're on you're in the meeting, but
you don't see anything.
>> Doesn't work.
» Okay. So, you're going to have to PDF
it.
>> You're going to have to turn those into
PDFs.
>> Okay. Can I do that? Or what do you
need, Mary?
>> Or I can do this while you do that.
>> Do
>> um Can you put the video on?
» Okay. Now, do you see
» I can do this.
>> Do the
power.
» Oh, that's right. I'll be right back.
>> You're not going to be able to open
He said,
"Huh?
But do participants do participants
>> is there count? Yeah. Can you activate
the video? Is the video on?
>> Yes. Yeah, the video is on and council.
» They're just getting black on.
» Oh. Um,
there now. Do you see this?
» Okay. So, you see it. So, You need to
get rid of Alex. You get rid of Alex
has do the participants again
>> so that there's not a double screen up
there.
add the back.
» Otherwise, you'll see us.
How long does he get
any
Stephen, we're going to start.
>> Um, we have we um we have we're having a
little bit of technical difficulty. So,
we have
>> Do you have the PDF?
>> Yeah.
>> I don't know if this is going to
connect.
>> Okay.
>> No,
you're just gonna have to do it or right
click it and then try to open it.
>> But I'm not in the right. Will he let me
into the right?
>> I was just going to open all of them
real quick.
>> No, I know. But instead of opening it
online
» and then
» Yeah, me too.
» So, do you want that video? All Scott is
seeing is Alice. He's not seeing the
council.
>> So I don't know what why.
» Can you see the participant go to
participants and raise Scott to a
panelist?
>> Oh wait, you know what? Is the Zoom on?
>> I don't know. I'm
go to where the participants
I already have.
>> Okay. And then Scott, is Scott board
raise him to a panelist?
>> Okay, you're there.
>> Yes.
» So, we need to get rid of your video,
but we need to see the council. Take
that off. You can turn that off. It's
just that they're not seeing that now.
You see council chamber.
>> Oh, good.
>> Okay. Mute the council chambers left. Uh
mute mute this.
>> Yeah.
Mary, the second one isn't coming up.
Only the first one.
Yes, now I see you.
» Okay, so we're good.
>> All right.
Good evening and welcome to
our ADR meeting.
>> I have it on.
>> Did Can you hear me?
>> Okay.
>> Uh, welcome to our ADR meeting. It's
This is our call to order and uh we will
introduce ourselves. I'm Joey
Buckingham.
» Hi, Laura Der.
>> And Mark Fritz. Thanks for coming
tonight everybody. Uh we now have an
open time for public comments.
Three minutes per speaker. Who's up?
>> No. Joey,
>> anyone out there. Okay. The next thing
is approval of minutes from our last uh
meeting on March 17th and I move to
approve them.
>> I can second that.
>> Okay. So approved. We'll go to our first
project which is 101 Upper Road and we
will uh hear from
Roberta or from Alex regarding this
project.
» Okay. Good evening ADR members. Uh
tonight the applicant at 101 Upper Road
is uh request a recommendation to the
town council for design review a
hillside law permit and a variance.
forgot that this is not a powerpoint.
So this is the existing site here.
Okay, so the applicant is proposing to
construct new landscape improvements in
a northern portion of the property.
Proposed features include a pool and
spa, pool equipment, a patio, fire pit,
outdoor kitchen, retaining walls over
six feet in height, and an outdoor
shower.
This is a closer Oh.
a closer up of the project. In addition,
the project also includes installation
of a new 6ft tall grape stake fence
along the existing driveway. The
variance is required to allow the
proposed improvements within the side
and rear yard setbacks and to construct
retaining walls over 6 ft in height.
And then staff request that the ADR
group discuss the merits of the project
and propose a recommendation to the town
council. Thank you.
Thanks, Alex. Uh, would the applicant or
their designer like to propose the
project? Describe it.
» Hello.
>> Uh, thanks for having us. I'm Lexi
Verif. um the owner. Um this first off,
thank you guys uh for all the time you
guys uh spend on ADR. We really
appreciate it. Uh this is a resubmitt of
a project that we had approved through
town council with a building permit in
2023. Um uh there's no real changes
except for the roof uh has gone from a
living roof to a crushed uh gravel roof.
Um so appreciate your consideration.
Hi everybody, Brad XT Imprint Landscape
Architecture. Uh, as Alexi said, we had
this project approved in 2023 all the
way through ADR and to town council and
for a building permit and um some things
happened during COVID and we had to put
the project on hold and so all of our
approval processes became void and we
started over. So leading up to this plan
that you see here, we had made a couple,
you know, significant changes with
neighbor input regarding bulk and mass
and reducing the patio that was in front
of the building. And we changed the
building configuration to reduce patios
that jutted out towards the road. And so
we did go through some significant um
design changes at the time. And um the
last ADR we we received approval from
the members. I don't I think Mark was
here. I don't remember if Joey you were
here too. I believe
>> I was the first round but I was sick the
second round.
>> Okay.
>> But I think we have a notes.
>> And Laura, I don't remember if you were
here or not.
>> I I was. Yeah.
>> You were. Okay. Um, so we got the ADR
approval and we got town council
approval and we took these drawings all
the way through building permit and all
we had to do was pay the permit fees and then the project just some things
happened COVID life upended and so the
project got put on hold. So, um, last
year I was contacted to bring the
project back and we start first started
with going to take the ADU out, try to
save some money and just do a bathroom
up in this location and that proved to
be overly complicated because the
bathroom didn't meet setbacks and there
was a lot of back and forth with that.
So we just decided with staff
recommendations as well and trying to
work out the financial aspect of it just
to submit the exact same project that we
had submitted before. So we submitted it
and it went back to fire and in that
time fire said we couldn't put a living
roof on anymore. So the code had
changed. So now the roof is a gravel
roof which is unfortunate but there's
nothing I can do about it. So, the goal
was always to have this really tuck into
the hillside and not be visible from any
other property. Um,
I think that's it for me. I'm I'm happy
to answer any questions that you might
have uh moving forward.
» So, is the ad the ADU is just maybe a
down the line thing?
>> No, the ADU is happening for this
project.
>> Okay.
>> Um, no, it's the project is unchanged.
>> Okay. Yeah.
>> Is the does it exactly match the
rendering? There was some question about
a deep overhang on the rendering. Yeah.
>> It doesn't appear on the plans.
>> Yeah, we we had the rendering adjusted
today. Um
the bulk the majority of that rendering
was to show the fence because there was
an initial fence proposed that was kind
of heavy and really felt too um
too too visible from the road. So we
changed that fence to a really
transparent wire type of a fence with
planting around it. And somehow the the
roof overhang didn't get picked up in
that rendering change. But all the
changes that are correct are on the
drawings. So that rendering, yeah, we
got it updated today in case you wanted
to see it, but that roofer overhang is
gone.
I actually have a question about the
removal of the green roof that obviously
was forced on you, but
>> that was a pretty attractive thing for
the people above you to look down on.
Yeah.
>> And so now are they looking down on
white gravel or what is this going to
look like? because maybe a pitched roof
would be more attractive there.
>> Well, the building's so tucked into the
hillside that the the hillside's going
to kind of come down over part of it.
And there's, if you look on the
rendering, that's their driveway above
>> that cuts over like that's the property
line of 101 upper, cutting through the
middle of their driveway, and their
house is way far away from that. And
there's oak trees and there's a hedge.
See the hedge along the driveway?
This cannot be seen from anywhere. That
living roof was really a more of a
feature for the pool area. Like you'd
see the grasses up on top of the roof
and the roof would feel like the
building's like really like tucked into
the hill.
>> Got it. How about do you have
>> I was just going to clarify something.
We don't really have any purview for
this ADU though, right?
>> Like we have no I mean we don't
>> has a living roof or slanted roof. We
really don't.
>> Yeah, exactly. But that was that was our
only comment on our resubmitt.
>> So there's there's actually zero change
to the part that the ADR has any
>> that's what I was
>> zero anything to mention.
>> One one other question and this is
actually
>> it is attached to the the
>> ADU but this there's a staircase that
dumps down onto the driveway like a
spiral staircase. Is that still there?
And was that there before? That was
there before and that's just like timber
steps into the hillside and that's
there's an entrance to the house that's
staying but the fire department wanted a
secondary access. Got it.
>> And they said it could just be like put
railroad ties into the hill and so they
could drag a hose up
>> from a fire truck.
>> It was it's not meant to be a functional
access to this space. We're going to try
to hide it as much as anything.
>> Okay, great.
>> Yeah. There won't be an address to it or
anything like that.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah.
>> Does anyone have any other questions of
Brad?
>> Does anyone in the audience have any
comments or online? Yes.
» Um I'm curious. I live um down I I live
on um Sierra Circle which is there and
there are a lot of it's down below Toyon
Drive and so my my question is um were there and I don't and I've never
had done something like this so I don't
know if I'm out of line with my question
so excuse me if I am but um was were
there any studies done excuse me
>> um as to the
>> Is this for 101 upper
>> it's for 101 one and and 313. Yeah.
>> Because they're both doing extensions.
And so my concern is the stability of
the hillside because there have been
slides coming down that have come down
that hillside before. I mean pretty bad
>> on onto Sierra Circle. Um and so I'm
just concerned about the and there's a
lot of um underground water in the
winter time there streams um even during
like now there's there's water that
comes down.
>> Are you referring to 313 upper toyon
>> both?
>> Okay. Okay. I get it. I get it. Just
it's a general commentary on drainage
and
>> right. Yeah. I just well and I just want
to make sure that the stability for the place houses below have been taken
into consideration on you know extensive
buildouts up above
>> the ADR this design review that we run
on these nights is really more about the
design and if it meets the criteria of
the town's code any project that would
be approved by the town and go through
building planning
>> they have to submit all sorts of soil
soils engineers, structural engineers,
civil engineers, drainage, you know,
they are very well vetted before they
can build something like this.
>> And they take into consideration.
>> Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay.
>> Yes. It's it's pretty hard to get the
permit to build such a thing.
>> Okay.
>> Because a lot of agencies and
consultants are required.
>> Okay.
>> But our job here tonight is much more of
a design.
>> Okay. Okay. Thank you. But thank you for
coming.
>> My question. It's good to
>> No, thank you for coming. It's a valid
worry.
>> Thank you.
» Yes.
» So to your question, um uh we did have a
full uh structural engineer and mockup
and when we went through approval uh
previously, uh we've submitted all that.
Um and so yes, we've gone through all
the necessary steps even though it's not
at this stage. Uh we did it previously.
>> Thanks.
>> So I'm going to bring it back to ADR if
we have any questions or if we are ready
to make our commentary.
>> No questions for me.
>> Any questions? Do you want to start?
>> Um sure. I I think based on the fact
that the project hasn't changed from
when we approved it before, I feel
comfortable going ahead and approving it
again. Thanks.
>> Yeah, same here. No additional comments.
Still a good project. Hope you're able
to build it.
>> Same three.
>> Okay, good luck.
The next project is 313 Upper Toyan
and Alex or Robera, would you guys like
to
>> Yeah. Yeah. Good evening. Uh ADR members
to us.
>> Tonight, the applicant at 313 upper
Toyan is requesting a recommendation to
the town council for design review and a
hillside lot permit. The project is
proposing I'll give you a sec. All
right. This is the existing site right
now and the um they're proposing to
build a new swimming pool where the
existing lawn is at. You can here is the
let me zoom in.
Okay. Uh this indoor this new outdoor
pool will replace the indoor pool and
the project will also include
approximately 280 ft of new heartscape
between the main residence and the
proposed pool. Uh, the pool equipment
will be located beneath a future parking
pad approved back in 2025 and staff
request that the EDR group provide a
recommendation to the town council.
Thank you.
>> Thanks, Alex. Is there a applicant here?
Architect,
designer.
» Good afternoon. Uh, Bob Dwire, Element
Outdoor Pool Construction. It's a pretty
simple project. There's an existing pool
that was removed. We're moving the pool
to the outside. It is all supported on
peers, so there's no influence on the
wall itself. We won't introduce any
additional water to the soils,
obviously, because the pool's designed
not to leak. So, I'm not sure any other
input I could have for you, but uh
rather simple, I think.
>> Thank you. Do you have any questions,
Adr of
Gentlemen,
>> could could you guys pull up the section
that shows the pool equipment?
>> Um,
do you have that on there, Alex?
>> Yeah. Give me a sec.
>> It's going to be down below the wall.
Okay. So, the pool will be up top and
the equipment will be lower than the pool.
>> It is it enclosed?
>> No, it's an open. It's the existing
equipment is open now and this would be
open also. Oh, so that's where the
equipment for the indoor pool is.
>> Yeah, there's an existing equipment
location for the indoor pool. Now, I'm
not sure if that moved because of a
setback, but it would be behind the same
wall.
>> My understanding is that the pool
equipment is going under the previously
approved.
>> I don't I don't know anything about the
deck or the the carport.
>> The pool equipment is going Remember
this is the project that has the parking
deck that we approved. They're tucking
the pool equipment under that,
>> right?
>> That's what I thought. And then is it
>> I understood from the presentation.
>> And then is that in an enclosed?
>> It's not. I mean,
>> no, there's no fencing around it or
anything like that. It's an open pad
with there's air conditioning there.
There's all different equipment
>> existing.
>> Okay.
>> The parking pad. Oh, my mouse is kind of
>> Do you have that, Alex? Do you have that
in the in the drawings? Is the parking
pad there?
>> It it it's going to be here, but it it's
not showing on the drawings, but it's
going to be like this is where the
parking pad is going to be. And this is
where the pool equipment
is going to be located. And this is the
elevation of the pool equipment down
there.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> But this is where ex Yeah, this is where
the pool equipment I mean the parking
pad's going to be.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> I don't have any further questions. You
guys have any further questions?
>> You have any further questions?
Um,
I guess not. Are there any public
comments on this project?
>> Thank you, sir.
>> Oh, you're welcome.
>> There's no one online.
» No, no, no one online.
>> Okay, back to us for discussion.
I'll go first. Yeah, go ahead. I don't
have any problem with the project, the
pool, where it's it's being moved from
inside to outside. It seems like a
perfect place for it. I do have a
problem with the uh pool equipment not
being better screened or covered just
from a track, you know, just from a
aesthetic point of view and a noise
point of view. I think it can be
enclosed in some kind of a noise proof
uh enclosure. We basically make
everybody else do that. It's
>> you enclosed building
>> and it there there's all sorts of pool
pardon me pool equipment enclosures that
meet the decibel requirement for
there. We use them all the time in these
various projects, but basically enclose
it so it's soundproof
and people don't see it also.
>> Yeah, I don't know where anybody would
see this.
» I'm not sure where anybody would see
this equipment, but as far as
soundproofing it, um, we've done sound
walls around it, screening, but, uh, if
we start putting a roof on it, then we
have to vent the heater. Um,
but we'd al definitely entertain looking
at, you know, limiting the sound.
>> What do you, that's basically our
requirement.
>> Yeah, I think I think it's location
based on the the topography. It's
sitting up above, you know, projecting
down the canyon. I would think that
there should be some soundation around
the pool. We we generally
>> apply that rule across the board. Um,
regardless of how close it is to a
proper line. When it's closer to a
proper line, we like to to really be
enclosed with a roof and whatnot.
>> I think in this particular case, I could
see recommending
>> surrounding it on three sides because
the back side is already the the
retaining wall,
>> right?
>> So, I could see something that's sound
uh mitigating this so it doesn't project
down the canyon. Um that would be
something I'd recom I strongly
recommend.
>> And you have u parameters for that for
us to look at to establish a design for
that. We do have some decibel parameters
that uh are in our in our you guys can
share those.
>> Yes, we also have Alex online. Uh can
you hear us?
>> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay, great. Um thank you all for
reviewing this. I am the owner of the
property. I have just a few sick kids at
home, so I wasn't able to attend today.
Um, so I did want to clarify that with
the parking deck that you guys approved
for us, there was a design to have
screening done where the equipment was
for aesthetic purposes for the neighbor
as well as for sound purposes. And so we
will be uh carrying through that. The
pool equipment where it sits currently
um is in the setback um which is where
it was existing uh when the home was
built I believe. And so we will be
moving it to the left side of where the
generator is um further from the
neighbor uh so that it is not in the
setback anymore and closer to where the
pool is. And so the screening should uh
follow the concrete pad essentially that
is at the lower part of the retaining
wall and um should include this along
with the uh the AC condenser units and
the um the generator that's there.
>> Perfect. I appreciate that
clarification.
>> Sure. Not a problem.
>> Yeah, that's great.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Uh I my comments are really the
same as
um Mark and Joey. So the main concern is
just the noise from that equipment
because it is you know sound travels
down and um the neighbor's house is also
kind of right there. So if that's
addressed I think the location of the
pool looks great. So thanks. So just to
wrap it up, we move to approve 30 pool
location's fine, equipment location is
fine, but please provide sound
attenuation
on basically three sides and then the
fourth side is the retaining wall.
>> Yep, sounds right.
>> Thank you.
>> Oh, thank you.
» Just in time. Next project is 111
Bolinus Avenue. And Alex, could you
>> uh Good evening. Uh the applicant at 111
Bolinas Avenue is requesting a
recommendation to the count council for
uh design review, an ADU permit, and a
non-conformity permit.
Okay. So, this is the existing site
plan. Um
you can see here and this is the
proposed site plan with the additions.
Uh the project proposes to convert the
existing 492T cottage into a detach ADU
and transfer 338 square feet of floor
area to the existing residence. The
scope of work includes an interior
remodel with additions no changes to the
exterior materials. The project also
proposes to expand the rear deck to
align with the addition seen here.
A non-conformity permit is required to
allow extending the house which is
currently non-conforming with respect to
the setbacks. An ADU permit is required
to allow the existing cottage to be
converted to a new ADU and transfer
square footage to the primary residence.
And staff request that the ADR group
discuss the merits of the project and
provide a formal recommendation to the
town council. And these are some of the
elev elevations of the uh proposed
additions.
East elevation, north elevation,
west elevation, south elevation, uh the
deck expansion here. That's it.
>> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant
like to uh present?
>> Yeah, I believe the applicants online.
Let me um
>> No, it's actually they're right they're
right here behind.
>> Sorry.
>> Yes. Yes. Thanks.
hear me? Yep. Good. Hi, I'm Dave Jookum,
the architect, and I just want to
clarify a couple things. Uh, it's
partially my fault. It is my fault. Uh,
the the square footage of the ADU is or
cottage now turned into an ADU is
actually 421.
And the amount of square footage we're
transferring is 208. and that shows on
uh the first page, the cover page with
the uh project data. That is all
accurate. What's inaccurate is is the
little uh project description down at
the bottom corner of that page, but it's
that it's all accurate.
And so I uh just a couple of things to
clarify. Uh the reason that the uh the
two additions, not the front one, but
the two rear editions at the back um are
non-conforming is because like every
project on that or every house on that
street, it they were built before the
current zoning. So, um we've got 5'4 on
one side, 8 feet on the other side. And
um if if we were if the house were
actually built in the um within all the
setbacks, it would be 30 ft wide, 90 ft
long. Um which we'd have to build 30 ft
wide, 80 ft long just to get the square
footage in there that we were talking
about. So that's basically a San
Francisco rowhouse, you know, which is
usually 25 ft wide and that would be 30
ft wide. So, we're we're like all the
other houses on the uh on the block, and
we're just filling out little mouse
bites that are in the in the house.
Um, and then the other thing that I
wanted to clarify was about the deck
extension on the back. It's basically
just a a deep uh landing outside the
doors. It's 5t deep um and it's um um a
foot off the ground. So it's it's not a
gargantuan duck that's looking over
neighbors or anything like that. So
that's all it is.
>> Hold on just a sec. Could you put the
plans back? I love looking at Dave, but
I would like to see the plans on the
screen.
>> Yeah,
>> it we just had had them up for a sec.
>> Uh do you want the elevations or the
>> just we can wherever what you're
whatever you're talking about. It would
be nice to see it on the screen.
>> Yeah, but it's not working.
» I can use my mouse. That's I can I can
go point. It's not working.
>> No.
>> Yeah.
» See it?
>> We're We're having techn technological
difficulties in this room tonight.
» So, the little mouse bites we're filling
in is this one and this one. This deck
goes along and wraps into where that
this extension is now.
So, we're replacing that deck with with
a new building to fill out that mouse
bite. And then this deck is just
extending over to the edge. And that's
basically just a a 5-ft landing a foot
off the ground to get you down to the
backyard. Um, that's all it is. And this
just fills out this little corner. Uh
making that that's that is the existing
master bath. And so we're, you know,
adding 40% area to the master bath.
>> Okay. Thank you. Do any of you have any
questions of Dave or the
>> No.
>> Robera or Alex? Is there anyone in the
audience who has any questions or
online?
Uh, and there's no one online.
>> Okay, we'll bring it back to the ADR.
Uh, who wants to go first with this one?
>> Um, I can go first. I I think that the
project looks like a nice project. Um,
appreciate the, you know, small scale of
the renovation materials that match
existing. Um,
and the
change from the square footage to turn
the shed in the back or the little guest
room in the back to a ADU.
I mean, that's all Roberta, that's all
correct, right? Like, we don't have to
Okay. Um,
and I mean I think the main thing is the
deck, but it's 12 in off the ground, so
it's not like it's 3 ft out looking into
the neighbor's backyard. So because of
that, I could see the exception for that
um to get a variance.
Um,
yeah. And the one the one thing
that in elevation from the uh east side
I didn't love was the roof line of the
new addition at the rear, but no one's
ever going to really see that, I don't
think. Um it's really well screened
between the neighbors and so um I'm okay
with it as designed.
Thanks.
>> I'll go next. I have no problem with the
design. I think it's a really good use
of the extra square footage that they
gained from the ADU conversion. And I
the findings I would make are that on
that street, I mean, if they were to put
that extra square footage anywhere else
in the house, it would either be in the
front of the house, in the middle, or in
the back, in the middle. there's kind of
that it's in the logical place and it
doesn't really I mean we talk a lot
about exacerbating a nonconformity but
everything on that street is
non-conforming and pretty much anywhere
you put that square footage is
non-conforming so bottom line I can
support it as drawn
» yeah 100% I don't have any additional
comments it's perfectly in keeping with
the types of houses that are along
bolinus and I think that deck uh to the
earlier points
barely will register um because it's so
close to the ground. I don't think it's
an impediment to the neighbors in any
way, shape, or form. So, I could support
that variance. Yeah.
>> Great. So, 30 approved. Thanks.
» Okay, we have one last one. Can everyone
hear me? We have three Willow Hill Road.
And Alex, take it away.
>> Yeah. The uh the applicant at three
Willowhood Road is requesting a
recommendation to the town council for
design review, non-conformity permit, a
hillside lot permit, and a variance. So,
this is the existing site here.
And they are proposing an interior
remodel with a Juliet balcony off the
sun sunroom and an exterior spiral
staircase connecting to the deck. The
project also proposes reconstruction of
the existing non-conforming two-level
rear deck which will be reduced in size
and include a barbecue area, a steel
trellis, sun shade at the upper level.
Uh
here
uh new terraces with stacked stone walls
and a hot tub are also proposed in the
rear yard and a new parking deck is
proposed adjacent to the existing
garage. A non-conformative permit is
required to allow the reconstruction of
the existing deck and a variance is
required to construct the terraces walls
in the rear yard setback, a hot tub and
a and the trellis in the rear and
sideyard setback and the parking deck in
the front yard setback and staff
requires that the ADR group provide a
recommendation to the town council.
Thank you.
>> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant
like to propose the project?
Good evening.
>> Hi
>> everybody. Steven, is he here or he's
just in the ether out there somewhere?
Or maybe not.
>> He is not with us this evening.
>> Well, anyway, we were here I think a lot
much like the first project that was
presented three years ago or more uh
with a very kind of similar proposal. uh
previous proposal that was approved uh
included the rebuild of the deck, uh a
lot of the kind of restoration of the
hillside, but it also included a
swimming pool. Um
so, uh anyway, uh here we are now. And I
think that there's a lot of similarities
between what we previously presented and
what's here now, but there's much more
emphasis on the deck, I think, in the
living experience of
um
being in on the hillside there. And if
you've visited, I think you all have
maybe visited the property and
um everything that's being done here or
proposed is voluntary. So, there's
already an existing deck there, right?
You can put furniture on and live
outside, but it just is really
unsightly.
Uh there's a strong emphasis, I think,
for the homeowner who we've done many
projects with to uh really make it a
home and make it make sense. And uh so
the idea of replacing that deck um for a
more uh uh kind of enjoyable outdoor
experience, but also to make something
that fits, I think, on the hillside in
this very challenging site
uh uh more appropriate, I'll just say.
And I think that um you know, a lot of
the experience of the house is viewed
through this deck, too, from the
bedrooms below.
And I think the idea of lightening that
structure and making it a structure of
interest will help those spaces as well.
Um and and then another kind of
motivation is to I think bring
the experience down to the garden which
currently is just a benched off flat
area. Um and you know the again another
voluntary kind of experiential exercise
is to bring the hillside back restore
the hillside and bring it back to the
house. And we're proposing a series of
these circular uh terraces that aren't
the hillside but they mimic the hillside
and are also uh areas of which you could
occupy and have access to the rest of
the site. So, uh, it helps ground the
building. Um, and you know, I think
again makes this such a val, you know,
otherwise unused portion of the
property, makes it inviting and like an
experience that you would want to
participate in. Um
the uh other aspect of this project I
think Alex that you pointed out is the
uh parking deck which is um
adjacent to the existing garage
structure. And one of the initial like
uh head scratchers uh if you've been up
that road is like you know visitors
coming and kind of taking your life into
your hands like backing out of the
driveway and or driving way up the to
the top of the hill to turn around in
somebody else's driveway. So, uh,
there's a real need, I think, for the
ability for a car to kind of maneuver,
park safely or visitor to come and back,
you know, pull in and then back safely
back out onto Willow Hill. And I also
think that a number of the
few neighbors that are on this hill
would appreciate it, I think, as well,
just having that,
I think, access to a turnaround up
there. Um,
so, um, I think that, you know, pretty
much, uh, other than the details, I
think that kind of describes what we're
looking to do here. So, I'm happy to
answer any questions that
any
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah.
>> Do Do any of you either of you have
questions
>> of the designer?
>> Sure. I I have two questions. Uh first,
I guess what was the thought process
when locating the spa, the hot tub?
>> Uh well, there's an area down uh at the
lower level. Uh it's also for privacy I
think too from viewing from the upper
part of the deck. There's also an area
that is on the lower part of the site
that is below the bedroom level that has
access to kind of a changing room or
like potentially you know a bathroom
down there. So putting it, I think, at
that edge is also another kind of
element, a built element that helps with
restoring the hillside down there, too,
because we're taking that long asphalt
driveway out. So
>> Oh, it is. Okay, that was my second
question was going to be about that
driveway because that Yeah,
>> I pulled into that. I'm sorry. I pulled
into that today and then I had to
>> back up, go up the hill.
>> Yeah. uh and it's right at the edge of
the property. So there's it's on a
cliff, you know. So there's like we
looked and looked and looked at the
possibility of creating a kind of a
parking pad there or turnaround and it
just became a monumental kind of
engineering exercise. So
>> okay,
>> so the idea is that we we're bringing
the hills that beautiful hillside and
the um natives up to the building edge
and just you know getting rid of the
kind of carved in scars that have just
whatever been a practical necessity I
think over the years. But
um yeah,
>> are any of those little terraces the
lower level walls do they reach anything
above 3 ft?
>> No, we terrace them all up to 30 in. So
we don't need any handrails or
>> that was intentional. Yeah.
>> And no real tree loss for those as well,
right?
>> No, not for those. are sort of uh being
built on top of what's now a kind of a
flat
>> grass area. Um there are yeah there's
the beauty of those trees that are
around there. We're not proposing to
take out any of those. If anything,
we're kind of pulling those trees with
new specimens or new plants up the
hillside, you know, big big box trees
that will kind of I think get as close
to a instant environment there as you
can, you know, like in terms of Yeah.
practically. So,
>> question at this point, has this gone
through fire department? Because
>> yeah,
>> there's a very good chance a lot of
trees will be leaving you. I yeah I
think it went through some scrutiny.
Yeah. So head shaking over there. Thanks
Savannah. But uh yeah so
if you want to come
» the fire the fire department did see all
of the plans and they didn't have any
comments about the trees. They were okay
with the trees that we were taking
because we were adding so many more. And
the trees that we were taking were are
um fire prone I guess. Um they did have
other issues but with something else
that we removed from the project. So
they have seen the project and we've
discussed with them. Um great all of
these aspects.
>> I'm just kind of curious actually. Thank
you. Thank you.
>> Any other questions of
>> um Sure. just questions now focusing on
the
steel mesh railings um at the deck and
then also the volume at the spiral
staircase. Um sorry if you could explain
that a little bit.
>> Yeah, expand on that. Well, I think that
the um mesh is a you know it's a
transparent I think there's some images
up there of the mesh that we've used
successfully
uh in the past. Um, I think that
there's, you know, there's a maybe a
initial thought that when you do a deck
or minimal deck, you do some linear
cable railing or make it look like a
deck. I think our idea here was not so
much to make it a deck, but make it a
extension of the house
that's open to the air, right? So it has
some volume and some mass to it that is
needed I think to ground that structure.
And the mesh is you know like a very
sort of image there in the upper right
hand corner where we use a variation of
different uh openings in the mesh or
orientation of the mesh to allow that
air and light to go through but also to
create a kind of a formal
aspect and proportion to it that uh is
you know uh goes outside I think of what
maybe is typically seen the spiral stair
is actually a really efficient way to
make a stair from a volume standpoint
too is in terms of like its perceived
mass on a site first of all it's round
you know I think if you square those
edges off it becomes a much more robust
looking stair and two the idea of a
round element too the way it kind of
light
>> moves around it I think it would
actually have a really light
>> almost arboritum type feel to it as you
move the experience as you move from
that upper deck
uh down below into the garden. So I
think that's the the reason for it.
Yeah. So
>> Okay. And so it's like a design element
rather than just having the railing kind
of going up as the staircase spirals up
you or
>> you want it as that whole solid volume.
>> I'm not understanding the question.
that uh
>> I I think what she's describing is in if
you the metal mesh is completely
>> encasing the spiral stair from base to
top on all three sides you got there
panels that go down. Yep.
>> Having it follow the actual
>> the elevation
and and railings.
>> Correct. Yeah. You would see the
silhouette of the stair. Thank you. they
would see the silhouette of the
structure of the stair behind the mesh
paneling as opposed to uh like an open
railing where maybe you would see
pickets or like you know some kind of
more um
>> Okay. I'm just thinking about it in a
like a bulk and mass perspective from
down the view from down the hill looking
up.
>> Yeah.
Uh well, I think we're also
concerned about that. You know,
obviously I I just want I think it's the
uh again the concept of making this a
structure that
>> takes it out of the deck language,
right? But it's I don't think that that
that's not going to be a
>> I mean, even if they can see it, I hope
they can see it. It's going to look
great, you know? So, uh, you know, I I I
don't know how visible it is down there,
but I I think it's going to be quite a
lovely and kind of magical
piece of the architecture that you're
going to be able to see the trees
through. And again, as you kind of move
through that space, I feel like it
>> gives it some
>> the out
>> substance as opposed to, you know, you
maybe see
>> anywhere, you know. So, but that's the
idea. I don't think it's maybe presented
as such a massive element maybe as the
drawings depict. Um but um but it is
part of the idea. So
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Can I ask another question uh about the
parking pad? The geometry of the parking
pad specifically. It uh just the it's
sort of a triangular shape. I wasn't
sure where the the right hand side is
spled, but I was trying to think if
you're coming from below the hill,
you're coming up backing out of that angle doesn't really facilitate
easy pull in pull out. So, I wasn't sure
where that angle came from.
>> Yeah. Well, I think that the other idea
there is that what you would do is like
if it wasn't maybe a a more traditional
twocar parking pad is that that you
would just make that a rectangle, right?
you know, so I think just cut cutting
out the edge of that makes it just known
that it's like a kind of not permanent
parking space. It's a onecar parking
space. You could pull out the usually
people come up from below. They pull in
there and then when they leave there's
no reason to go back up the hill. So you
kind of pull out in that direction of
that angle onto Willow Hill and then
down Willow Hill. Um, so I think the
idea here is really just to kind of keep
the space functional as a turnaround,
but not make some massive parking deck
that kind of competes with the garage
itself. I think there's a lot of
sensitivity
to this side of the house for that very
reason for the neighbors. I think that
they experience this valley that kind of
goes down. There's a walk path that goes
down from Willow Hill to Madrron and you
know so you would be walking near this
structure. So again it needs to have
some
lightness and I think beauty to it and
uh take it out of maybe the typical
language of
>> deck. Do you have an elevation of that
parking deck?
>> Yeah.
>> What it looks like? Yeah, I think it's
>> you find it.
>> There it is. Bottom right.
» I think too if you look at the site
plan, you can kind of see the shape of
the road too. It kind of makes a little
maybe more sense looking at that too.
But that's the those are the elevations
of the Yep.
>> Do you have any more questions on that
particular thing? No. I I was going to
ask you to talk a little bit about the
um trellis at the upper level. Yeah,
>> you provided a number of different
images that what the trellis could feel
like. Uh, but they're they're kind of
pretty different. So, I was hoping you
could zero in on what you visualize that
trellis up above to be because you have
some that are solid with glass, you have
some with canopy, you have some with
solid canopy as far as inspirational
photos. So, what do you think that's
looking like?
>> Yeah. And there's nothing, you know, I
don't think exactly like it, but it's
kind of an open structure. there's no
hard surface to the top to it. Um that
the idea there is that there is a much
like this image a very uh wavy something
that moves in the breeze that looks
light that can provide shade for that
deck without having the
uh mass I guess of a solid structure up
there. Like those are all just images I
think of an open structure. Granted,
that is one that you know just has I
think that the sun shade part of it is
permanent, right? They just have lattice
there, but we're not proposing lattice.
I think the emphasis there is it's an
open structure that you see and then
that there is this canopy
either fabric or uh that reed grass that
um can be retractable that acts as a
shade that you can manipulate to like on
a cooler day or warmer day. um as
opposed to having something that's more
permanent up there. Um so,
>> okay.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah, that's the idea.
>> Thanks. I will I'll give you a little
personal experience. If as soon as the
fire department has anything to do with
any structure attached to your house
that has any foliage on it, it will be
taken away from you.
>> So, just just so you know,
>> there's no foliage on this structure.
Like we're not we asked even more
emphasis on why it needs to have its own
beauty, right? You know,
>> yeah. Any natural woven anything
attached to your house,
>> make it out of unnatural things.
>> Going through that right now. But
anyway, uh any more questions?
>> No, I think that covers off mine.
>> Who wants to go first?
>> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Forgot. Went out of
order there. I told you I would. Uh, are
there any comments from the audience or
online?
>> There's no one online.
>> Any of you have anything to say over
there?
>> There's nobody out in the bushes.
>> Want to vote for it?
Um, okay. We'll bring it back to the
ADR. Uh, Mark, would you like to go
first?
>> Sure. Yeah. So, we've seen this one
before. Um, I think this is a a pretty
substantial upgrade. I do appreciate I
want to make sure you hear it loud and
clear. the the pool was a bit of a
unnerving approval last time. I know we
went through many rounds of its location
and its the neighbors down below and
earthquakes, whatnot. So, I think this
is a really nice um uh middle solve for
that. And I think the terraces down at
grade will actually be quite wonderful
spaces. So, I I really appreciate that.
Uh I think the the home upgrades are are
fine. Uh the little Juliet balcony,
great. Um, I think where I start to get
a little concerned. I'll talk I'll start
at the top. The the trellis I I think I
would just go with something that was
flat in lie of having the peak. Um, I
don't think that I I see from a flat
elevation standpoint that that starts to
mirror the gable on the right hand side
of the rear elevation, but let's admit
it, you will never see that except when
you're on the street below and that's
pretty much impossible. So, I would I
would prefer to see just a a horizontal
uh trellis out there that you could just
minimize the amount of volume that
you've got on the hillside. So, that would be step one. Um I think along
those same lines, I think the the the
spiral stair and the fully enclosed mesh
should while I I appreciate the sort of
delicate nature of it might be too much
mass when you look at this thing from
below. I think when you look at mesh at
an angle, you start to collapse that
mesh into a solid form just by the
nature of its weave and the the
perspective of it. So, it's going to
appear relatively massive. I think that spiral stair is, which I don't
think is really the look that you might
want to go for. So, I I don't have the
problem with the mesh, but I think I
might look at that in a little different
way that it's a sculptural element on
the edge of your building where maybe
the mesh starts to follow the tread, the
stringer up along with railings and just
allows it to be a lighter element on the
facade and on the hill.
>> So, that would be I think it's a it
would improve the overall massing from
below, which is really the only place
you see this thing from.
Uh, third, I think on the parking deck,
the reason why I asked you about that
angle, the way I I envision, I want it
to be as practical as possible, because
that's really why you want to have it up
there. I think you might want to make
the 8 foot dimension a little bit longer
uh at the top where the where the front
of the car is. It's about eight and
change now. And I think about pulling
into that and then pulling back out,
the front of the car is going to want to
swing to the house, to the garage. And I
think you need a little more leeway
between the car and the existing garage
to make that turn so that you're not
hitting the front of your car into the
garage. I just think it'll be more
effective if it's got a little more give
it a little more um
>> air, a little more width.
>> Okay.
>> Because I think it'll just be more
useful. You know what I'm I don't know
if Alex wants to pull it back out, but
as you pull back out and you're the rear
of the car goes up the hill, the front
swings to the to the garage facade, and
I think you're just not going to have
the room. It's going to be a pain in the
ass to pull out,
>> right? So, so I I would just give that
another two feet at the head of it.
Maybe maybe that angle isn't so steep,
so your square footage is about the
same, but I would just give your left
hand side of that car a little more.
>> Sure. I mean, I think they could I'm not
sure what drove exactly the
>> dimension at the end, but you know, if
that increases a couple of feet or
whatever,
>> you're talking about like an 8 foot
standard, you know, 8 by 20 is the car
parking space, but given the road
geometry, I think you want to make this
as useful as possible.
>> Um,
>> I think that the uh everything up there
is gravy, like, you know, so it's like
this is luxury.
>> It's like, but I hear what you're
saying. I hear what you're saying. I do
really want to say that from a from a
lot of the projects we've seen around
the town, having this extra space to
pull off, whether it's for, you know,
service personnel or whoever it might
be, visitors, this is pretty valuable.
So, I think I I could easily support
that being the variance in the front.
But that's that's a big uh plus in my
mind.
>> I think those are my only comments, but
if I reserve the right to come back and
say something.
>> Um, okay. Mark did an excellent job. Uh,
like kind of took all the comments I
had. Um, I agree on this parking space
because I was thinking turning into it,
like making that left turn, your front
end could end up kind of close to that
angled wall. So, I also support, um, at
the front of the car, making that
portion a little bit wider. Um, I, you
know, and then I think the grading down
to the hot tub is a wonderful design.
Um, working with the topography, I like
that.
Um,
I agree. I I think it'd be worth
revisiting the spiral staircase and just
exploring the option of lightening it up
instead of making that massive volume
all the way down to the ground. Like, c
could it be reduced um in scale by just
having it go up along the stairs like
railing height or whatever?
Um,
and I think the the last thing is coming
back to the trellis that's on top of the
roof deck. Um,
I don't know if there's a lot of
precedent for trelluses on like a
threetory roof deck, but it is pretty
tucked in there. So, I think just
thinking about keeping that as light as
possible. Um,
I agree. I don't I'm not fully
understanding the um angled roof for it.
I think it could look
It could make sense just with like a
flat trellis. Um
» I don't know. There's a cable there
that's there now that sticks out on the
dining room. Yep. But
>> I could you pull up that elevation?
» Yeah. There's a big gable on the right
hand side there that kind of projects
out the same as the uh
>> as the trellis element.
>> I would consider just looking at a flat
design and lowering it to the
>> like line the bottom of the roof line
like where the gutter is. Spring height.
>> Um
>> Alex, if you go to
a 1.7, I don't know if you have that,
>> the side elevation, which would be the
>> east elevation, you can start to see
>> just as far as it would project out,
right? Like so that's the that's the
peak that he's describing, but this
comes another
>> 10 to 12 feet out out to that direction.
So it's really the trellus is from here
all the way out to there
>> in relationship to the plan just to just
to kind of keep
>> what what's drawn.
>> So
>> can I is there possible to talk about
that a little bit more?
>> Sure.
>> I don't what's the protocol? Do we need
to wait or
>> uh
>> Well, it's really up to the chairman.
>> What was the sheet again?
>> Uh 1.7
>> 1.7. Okay. Thank you.
>> You know what? Since you're the last
applicant, we can relax the rules a
little bit. and I'm I'm the I'm the vice
chair and I never know exactly how to
run these meetings, but I would like to
hear from you.
>> Well, if it's assists the conversation,
that's that's all. Um, so presently
there's a deck up there now, as I think
you all know. Um, it's
difficult to use because it's either
blazing hot in the summer, it's totally
exposed, or in the winter because it's
on the north side, it's not very
comfortable because it doesn't get any
sun. So, the purpose of the overhead
element in this trellis is to provide
the opportunity for Scott and his family
to use it throughout the year. So they
can on the cold days if it is sunny they
can go out there but in the summertime
when it's practically unusable they can
cover it with a we were looking at a
motorized fabric shade that they could
retract so that that could come down on
the sun you know for for a portion of it
so that closer to the house they could
eat outside or whatever in the um when
the sun's out. I think it is so high up
there that from below you're never going
to perceive what that roof shape is on
the trellis unless you're on the
trellis. And given the cottage nature of
the house, it's a 1914 former hunting
cottage um it's it's a cabin and to put
a flat roof element out there um even if
it is open and trellis-like feels in
congruous with the architecture. I think
that the pitched form is really
important for uh in uh reverence to the
existing architecture. So I think you're
really going to feel that when you're
out on that deck, you're going to feel
the experience of that pitched form.
>> Thank you.
>> Yeah,
>> I'm going to say to my colleagues on
relationship to that, so the spiral
stair, the metal mesh, I wouldn't look
at this as a as a hunting cottage at
this point anymore. like as far as
something that goes from a aesthetic
standpoint, it's a metal trellis with
metal railings all over the place. So, I
don't think it's an I don't think it's a
bad element. I just think it should be
because you can see this from below,
right? As the the home can be seen from
down at the street below,
>> right?
>> That's that was my point.
>> Yeah.
>> So, and I agree if you look at the
elevation from the side, that's the
existing. Can you scroll to the
proposed?
>> Nope.
3.1 is the proposed. It's quite a ways
down.
>> 3.1. Okay.
>> Sorry.
» Yeah.
>> Mhm. Right. So,
um it so it goes all the way to the
front edge. So, you actually will see
that from the street. Right. if it was
stepped back from that railing, maybe
you wouldn't see it as much, but um so
that is an element that is up for
discussion. Um
and it looks like it continues all the
way back to the peak of the roof. Is
that what I'm seeing?
>> It's supported on the roof. Yeah. Mhm. I
still stand with my comments of lowering
it to the line of the gutter or just
below uh and having it a flat element
and or stepping it back away from that
front edge.
>> So if we were to step it back from the
front edge, the gabled form wouldn't be
as big of a concern.
>> I think that's what she's saying. Yeah.
>> So that's that's her comments. So So
each of us weigh in. I was going to
actually just put put out there it could
be a gable I mean sorry a hip form too
at that edge so that the horizontal line
is it's red from below would remain in
that there would be a hip shape much
like over the kitchen form that would
>> that would help
>> go back
I think to my colleagues once the
material is put up on it right then it
becomes more solid then it becomes a
mass versus if as we're looking at it
here it's transparent it wouldn't matter. To some degree, it doesn't
matter very much because it's almost
like story poles. But if you're starting
to add lighting and a canvas or some
bamboo piece or something, it's going to
start to be pretty large and
substantial.
>> That's that was my comment. It it has to
be seen in that light versus a super
light and airy,
>> you know, bunch of sticks.
>> True. I will say I Well, are you have
you finished your comments? Yeah. Sorry.
Are are you do you have a
>> um that's yeah that's all I have to
share.
>> So I will say I actually lived right
above this house for 16 years at four
Willow Hill Road and I know the heat on
the deck. We did it one of those
automatic awnings that comes in and out
with the wind and the sun and
everything. So I I know exactly what
Scott is dealing with. And um I actually
well just I'll give my comments about
the whole project. I think the project's
excellent. Uh my husband and I used to
walk and try to figure out what we would
do to fix that house. Like what how
would we change that deck? And I always
wanted him to buy it so I could fix it.
And you guys are doing exactly what I
wanted to do. Clean up that deck, push
it back, just clean the whole thing up
and make it uh just make it better in
that way. So I I really appreciate that.
And the parking up there is a nightmare.
I would actually encourage you to do a
twocar deck and just shroud it from
below and get as much parking off the
street as you possibly could because
that canyon, nobody I mean, we walked up
and down it, but nobody's hanging out in
that canyon. And to that point, the only
time you're looking up at their house is
when you're driving up the road or when
the residents are walking up the road
when you you really have to crane your
neck to look up there and see what's
going on on their house. So, this this
concept of
that trellis bothering anyone is I I
just can't see that. I do understand why
you're doing the the gable on the
trellis. I think it's a charming
counterpoint to the other gable, but I
do agree that we should pull that back.
If you're going to do that shape, it
should be half of the deck. And if
you're going to do the whole deck, it
should just be at the spring point. That those would be my comments. And I I
love what you're doing um down below at
the at grade. Another wait, one more
reason to have two cars. If you're
getting rid of that long driveway,
that's that's where your guests are
going to park. So, I would I would max
that out, whatever the town would let
you do. Um, and then the stairway, I the
spiral stair, I also agree that's too
big of a volume and I would like to see
it just the railing just follow the
spiral. So, those are my comments.
So if we bring it back, we're basically
30 approving.
We are two
not approving of the um gabled trellis.
Three of us.
>> I could be convinced of the gabled
trellis if it goes back another 10 to 15
ft. 10 feet
>> like to line with the other structure.
>> Sure.
>> You do the gabled trellis half of the
deck, push it back or if you want to
keep the trellis
That first
>> would you go back to the other?
>> Yeah. Matching the
>> Yeah. Where the first vertical is. I
think that would be then you could keep
the
>> No. Where to the line of the existing
building behind it?
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Right there.
>> Yes. That's what I'm referring.
>> I could support that change.
>> I could support that.
>> Okay.
>> Um could you support that?
>> Sure.
>> So, we're all in favor of keeping the
gable trellis but cutting, you know,
pushing it back. I think all three of us
thought that you should not have that uh
enclosed mesh spiral staircase. As cool
as it could be, I think
>> you guys are missing out. You're going
to want to walk down that thing like
what are you doing? It's still mesh.
It's still spiral of you. I wanted to
>> just not a big mess.
>> We just We're just not digging it.
>> All right. You're not invited to the
party then.
>> Okay. Well, I've been to many parties in
that house. Um, I know Scott will invite
me. Uh, but then
>> and I would also go with you if on the
parking pad.
>> If it was two spaces, I think I could I
could support that absolutely as well.
>> Same.
>> Yeah, it's a fire danger. It's that
there people I teenage drivers up there.
One of my kids almost drove off. I mean,
it's we need to get cars off that road.
So, uh, I would support that. I think
we're all in favor of the project. It's
just these little tweaks, right?
>> Agreed.
>> Is everybody Did you get the notes for
that? Okay. Thank you guys.
>> Sure.
>> Staff question. So for um process,
>> I mean, sorry, a process question. Do we
need now to can we work out these
changes directly with staff and get your
approval or do we need to factor in
another design review hearing before we
can go to council?
>> Okay.
>> No, you'll do it with them. Okay, great.
>> These are small enough where you'll and
they sometimes will run it by us like is
this okay?
>> Okay, great. We're just trying to move
it along. So, great.
>> Yes.
>> Beautiful. Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you. Thank you guys.
Whoops. All right. We are moving right
along.
>> Uh
>> boom. Uh
>> five information, discussion, and new
agenda items.
>> Thank you all very much.
>> Thank you guys. Byebye.
Um, so we just wanted to follow up on
the
setback exception or the pool exception,
landscape features exception. If there
was anything else that we didn't capture
in that draft,
um, let us know. I I think Alex sent the
word file to the ADR.
>> Yeah. Um, if it looks okay, then we'll
go ahead and work on it and send it to
the town attorney um and draft it so
that it would be codified into the
municipal code.
>> Um,
>> I had a question, but you you go first.
you
>> um just I was looking at this kind of
last minute while right before I ran out
to do my site visits so it's possible I
missed it but um I thought that we had
discussed there being like if a deck or
patio space is in up to that 10 foot
that new 10-ft setback um it was
described as it couldn't exceed 18 in in
height. Is that in that code anywhere?
>> Can you open that? We do have
>> Yeah. definition
>> the
not the definitions the um
>> exception thing. Yeah.
>> And what it applies to
>> this one.
>> Yeah.
>> Let me share my screen.
>> Maybe.
>> I know we have decks on there, but I
don't know if we said the height.
>> There was the 4 foot limitation. But
there's something about the deck. I
think there's something on the deck
that's
>> pool decks not exceeding 18 in in
height. Yeah. So, it can't be higher
than 18 in.
>> But, but any feature such as a fireplace
or anything like that could go up to
four feet.
>> Four feet. Yeah, that's in there, too.
>> Okay.
>> I had a question on that. I I had a
general question maybe for all of us.
Um, in this situation where there's a
sloping lot and someone wants to build a
pool and the pool stays within that 10,
you see meets that 10-ft setback but now
has a retaining wall, you know, a sixoot
retaining wall, let's say, or 7 foot,
would that get administerial review or
would that fall outside of that because
it's a higher retaining like how does
that work?
>> Yes. So if it's a higher retaining wall,
if it's six feet and it needs a
variance, it would still they would
still need to get design review.
>> Okay. But it would be 6 foot would be
the height that
>> 48 in over 48 inches would trigger
designer.
>> 48 in.
>> Yes. So 4T.
Does that feel good with you guys? That
feels good, right?
>> Yeah. If it's over if you're starting to
have a huge retaining wall that's in 10
feet away from the set. That's why I was
wondering like is someone going to be
doing that and they're going to be like
this this site that we just looked at if
they had gone out and dropped a 6 to 8t
wall we would have been like oh okay I
guess we didn't really mean that
>> so this 48 in that sounds pretty good
okay
>> that's the max
>> and then I think we
>> Hold on just a second if you if you
imagine a 48 inch retaining wall for a
pool and then a a railing on top
>> railing on top of that right it starts
to be 8 ft of stuff
>> I think. Which aren't you not allowed to
do that now?
>> What part of our
>> I don't know with our project we had
some
>> which part like the railing or the
>> Yeah, it was like like if you have a
pool deck and you're holding it back
with a 48 inch retaining wall, you're
going to have to have a 42 inch railing
on top of that,
>> right? And I think we couldn't do it as
a concrete wall, we had to like open
it up and have it be like a open
structure underneath.
>> Oh,
>> because with the railing on top, then it
would be too tall
>> like
>> so it was on peers in lie of
>> Yeah. So, and like at my project, it's
not fully
>> enclosed underneath it.
>> Well, no, it it is. Sorry, I'm
describing it poorly. Um, the pool is
partially above ground because the site
slopes down and so we have a wall at the
end of the decking that
it was described to me that with the
three foot wall there, we couldn't then
add the railing
on top. But maybe maybe that's not the
case.
>> I just I'm trying to trying to think
through the scenarios that we've seen
pools go in. It's nice in a flat space.
You wouldn't be able to I think it's
worse if it's a 10 foot setback and then
someone's
>> right
>> going up to 80 something inches.
>> That's what worried me a little bit.
>> If you had say someone did a retaining
wall that's 4T and then they wanted to
do a railing that was solid,
>> right?
>> Then we would count that as part of the
height, right? Like if they said, "Well,
we just want to make that wall add
another
>> 42 in."
>> Exactly.
But it could be an open railing,
>> right? But if it was an open railing, I
don't think we would count it towards
the height of the retaining wall.
>> We wouldn't. But how do we feel about
that
>> as would we?
>> Yeah. I'm I'm
>> I'm just trying to think through those.
>> I'm trying to think of I mean, you
almost wonder if anything that is in the
hillside lot
doesn't get this.
>> That's where I was wondering like in a
hillside scenario, this doesn't this 10-
foot thing doesn't apply. But I don't
know. I haven't I haven't thought it
through. I just am envisioning a lot of
these projects that are that end up
having pools that are partially
>> on grade and then jut out
>> that they we end up having these
retaining wall conversations.
>> Well, look at this one that just came in
with their old pool design. They could
have pushed that right up to the
>> That's why it's it's literally the
project that made me think like, boy,
>> what happened?
>> That's a weird road though because
>> Yeah, I know. Our lot was such a funky
whoever set that road up.
>> Yeah, it's
>> our lot had an ease like everybody else
had an easement over our lot which was
like a Z. So they all traveled over our
lot. It was bizarre.
>> But anyway, they even that that one, you
know, take 10 feet from their property
line and they're doing a a retaining
wall for pool and then a railing on top
of it and you're looking up at it.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you want us to look at that? Do you
want us to look at think about it
whether or not this is a a problem. Now
another question I had was if something
comes in and meets these requirements
it's you know 10 feet four feet blah blah can you still say I think we
need to go through design review or you
can't because like if there are like
whoa that's not what I thought this
would turn out to be we should have
design review look at this is that up to
you guys but I think I read in this that
you have the
>> the say you have the jurisdiction to say
you don't need to go through design
review or you do need to
I think so. I think there's um language
there that would give Alex and I an out
that they still need to go through
design review. I guess it just makes it
harder cuz it's subjective. Like what would be those things?
>> I don't want that
>> be real hard on them.
>> I only wonder of the things we haven't
thought about and something slides in
and it's like oh they did make that a
solid 4 foot and then another solid
railing. Well, it's not really a
retaining wall up there but now it's an
8ft wall. Like
>> how about this? Does sorry guys how
about this doesn't apply
>> I think you still need to be on so that
yeah
>> how about that this doesn't apply to
anything with a slope over x
>> so the hillside lot is 30% so if it's
30% than your hillside lot this doesn't
apply
>> well it would trigger
>> what about
trigger designer view
>> yeah trigger varian I mean actually that
lot we saw today with the pool
>> the lot might be hillside lot right but
the pool was on a flat area,
>> right?
>> But did have a big retaining wall, but
it exists. I don't know. I just brought
it up. It may not be a thing. This may
not as long as that 4 foot is the max.
>> Mhm.
>> Maybe it's okay.
>> Look at the pool that was came through
for the reissuing of the permit. You
know, the the one um
>> Yes. On upper
>> 101. Yeah.
>> Okay. So,
>> they could actually have that pool a lot
closer to the property lineup. And that
could be I mean I you know
>> the the neighbors should be very happy
that they
>> took what they got because now they
could come back and push that way out to
the road and then it would have you know
retaining walls and
>> Yeah.
>> railings. So
>> and that's a hillside line.
>> Same for the ADU too.
>> Yeah. We got to be careful about that.
>> Yeah.
>> So maybe just think about that. Another
area I just thought we want to add um
and I'll send you just a couple quick
notes, but trellis wasn't I mean it's
not specifically called out anywhere and
oftentimes we see these sort of poolside
trelluses and in
uh yeah this one.
Oh, so the pool just I'll pause the
trails for a second in this one right
here that you have up. So pool equipment
is still required to be in the building
setbacks.
>> Yes,
>> that's what this reads to me.
>> That is what that reads, but um the town
already has a minor exception,
>> right? Yeah.
>> So we probably want to align this to
that, right? Exactly. Okay. So So pool
equipment will be available to be within
this landscape setback.
>> The 10 ft.
Yeah. Not with
>> it has to be out. Yeah. Yeah. up to the
10 ft. Okay,
>> great. Um,
and yeah, I just thought there were a
couple spots we could clarify trelluses
as an example of a structure that does
not meet the
um available availability for this
expedited review. Like I don't want to
have trelluses in this zone unless
because we have this 4ft height thing,
right? So I think trelluses should be
bring them to design review or something
like that
>> or stick to the old setbacks for
trellis.
>> Yes, that's right. Stick to the old
setbacks or you have to come to design
review.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. These trelluses are getting big.
>> They're getting big and they're getting
>> a couple of my projects that are lit up.
They've got
>> that's you know this that other thing is
going to be heat lamps and lit up and a
canopy and it's going to be like
>> they're really cool. I mean, you can buy
them prefab and they're they they're all
electrified and you know, it's basically
a building.
>> And that's why I don't want I want to
explicitly like get those things out of
that space cuz that that
>> they put speakers in them.
>> Yeah. They're really they can be like a
little building.
>> Yeah. I think that's all Yeah. So,
trelluses are not part of the landscape
features definition. So, something like
that would come.
>> Yeah. I thought there there are some uh
let's see. Yeah. 18.12.1
94 I think.
>> Oh yeah, we listed.
>> So that means it would be considered a
structure which
>> right uh
>> which they would have to meet the
setbacks.
>> Yeah.
What I was afraid of is the idea
of
uh something. Oh, thank you.
>> It's still small.
>> Yeah. Uh anyway, there there was
pretty pool spots. Yeah, I see. You mean
decks, patios, fireplaces, seat, walls?
Yeah. Okay.
Are there um
1847020?
So, go down a little further.
>> Is it the definition stuff?
>> I don't know. Keep going. It's 1847.
>> No.
>> Oh, that's a different uh Let me see.
this next page. I think
>> it's to
let me see.
>> Go to your next tab.
>> Oh.
>> yeah.
>> I can send you these. It's just trellis
stuff. It's not a It's not anything we
need to hold everybody up.
>> Um I I do have one more question. Um did I read it correctly that ADR is not
it won't trigger design review um for
pools based on the 50 cubic yards of
grade and fill. So that's getting taken
out.
>> Yeah. Otherwise, so 50 cubic yards is
like three by three.
>> So every pool is more than, you know, if
you dig 3 feet
>> and then 3 ft down, that's 50 cubic
yards. So
>> Okay. Yeah,
>> there's no pool that's less than that.
>> Yeah, we have that here uh under
designer view requirements.
Um, but you can either send us what you
have or we can come back. We can look at
like what um, hillside pools have been
approved and maybe see um, if folks are
trying to do this thing where they're
pushing it to the edges of the property
line versus uh, keeping it close to the
house.
>> Yeah. It's interesting because the
hillside lots have larger setbacks.
>> Yes.
Larger set the bigger lots larger
setbacks. Yeah. It depends on the square
footage of the house.
>> Oh, that's when it triggers.
>> Take I would take a look at it and what
I mean I I would love to get this thing
done so that we I know
>> have,
>> you know, so whatever helps get it done
so you can bring it to council and get
it approved would be great.
>> I don't know what we
>> do. We bring it back one more time or
can you just run with
>> Depends on what? Yeah, I mean
>> can we is it are
>> I don't need to see it again. So you
guys could also um we can draft it and
you could look at it
>> just send us your email.
>> I think that would be good so that we
can give it to you and go to council.
Maybe we just specifically call out
Stephen and Mark who haven't been
haven't looked at it in a
>> long right.
>> Yeah.
>> Because other than these little nitpicky
things, I think I was totally fine with
it and think it's great. I think it's a benefit to the town.
>> Okay.
>> Thank you.
>> Sounds good. So I move to adjourn the
meeting.
>> Second it.
>> Thanks guys.