[0:18] and then Ross.
[0:21] >> Thank you.
[0:53] PowerPoint.
[0:55] >> I don't know if uh
[0:59] it doesn't work.
[1:01] No, I have to like log in.
[1:02] >> Sign in. Just sign into your account.
[1:04] >> Yes, it'll work. Put in your You want me
[1:07] to put in mine?
[1:08] >> Am I not
[1:22] a ton of raw?
[1:28] » Thank you for listening.
[1:35] You're going to have to do
[1:39] » Wait, what? Password.
[1:56] » Hi everyone.
[2:00] Wait a few minutes.
[2:04] » Yes.
[2:28] You want to try your just be Zach?
[2:31] >> Yeah.
[2:32] >> Damn.
[2:48] Uh Zoom and undo the video. Is it
[2:52] Well, give us a second.
[2:54] >> Our power point isn't working.
[2:57] >> Okay.
[2:59] >> Well, that's just because of us. It's
[3:01] >> It's not you guys.
[3:02] >> Okay.
[3:05] >> So, you're on you're in the meeting, but
[3:07] you don't see anything.
[3:09] >> Doesn't work.
[3:14] » Okay. So, you're going to have to PDF
[3:16] it.
[3:17] >> You're going to have to turn those into
[3:19] PDFs.
[3:20] >> Okay. Can I do that? Or what do you
[3:21] need, Mary?
[3:23] >> Or I can do this while you do that.
[3:26] >> Do
[3:27] >> um Can you put the video on?
[3:33] » Okay. Now, do you see
[3:38] » I can do this.
[3:39] >> Do the
[3:43] power.
[3:47] » Oh, that's right. I'll be right back.
[3:49] >> You're not going to be able to open
[4:21] He said,
[4:24] "Huh?
[4:35] But do participants do participants
[4:39] >> is there count? Yeah. Can you activate
[4:41] the video? Is the video on?
[4:43] >> Yes. Yeah, the video is on and council.
[4:50] » They're just getting black on.
[4:54] » Oh. Um,
[4:56] there now. Do you see this?
[5:01] » Okay. So, you see it. So, You need to
[5:03] get rid of Alex. You get rid of Alex
[5:07] has do the participants again
[5:09] >> so that there's not a double screen up
[5:12] there.
[5:15] add the back.
[5:19] » Otherwise, you'll see us.
[5:43] How long does he get
[5:48] any
[6:01] Stephen, we're going to start.
[6:05] >> Um, we have we um we have we're having a
[6:08] little bit of technical difficulty. So,
[6:09] we have
[6:12] >> Do you have the PDF?
[6:13] >> Yeah.
[6:14] >> I don't know if this is going to
[6:15] connect.
[6:16] >> Okay.
[6:18] >> No,
[6:23] you're just gonna have to do it or right
[6:26] click it and then try to open it.
[6:28] >> But I'm not in the right. Will he let me
[6:29] into the right?
[6:32] >> I was just going to open all of them
[6:33] real quick.
[6:34] >> No, I know. But instead of opening it
[6:36] online
[6:44] » and then
[6:49] » Yeah, me too.
[6:55] » So, do you want that video? All Scott is
[6:59] seeing is Alice. He's not seeing the
[7:00] council.
[7:02] >> So I don't know what why.
[7:12] » Can you see the participant go to
[7:13] participants and raise Scott to a
[7:15] panelist?
[7:18] >> Oh wait, you know what? Is the Zoom on?
[7:20] >> I don't know. I'm
[7:25] go to where the participants
[7:28] I already have.
[7:30] >> Okay. And then Scott, is Scott board
[7:32] raise him to a panelist?
[7:35] >> Okay, you're there.
[7:37] >> Yes.
[7:40] » So, we need to get rid of your video,
[7:43] but we need to see the council. Take
[7:46] that off. You can turn that off. It's
[7:47] just that they're not seeing that now.
[7:50] You see council chamber.
[7:52] >> Oh, good.
[7:55] >> Okay. Mute the council chambers left. Uh
[7:59] mute mute this.
[8:02] >> Yeah.
[20:58] Mary, the second one isn't coming up.
[20:59] Only the first one.
[21:16] Yes, now I see you.
[21:21] » Okay, so we're good.
[21:24] >> All right.
[21:36] Good evening and welcome to
[21:38] our ADR meeting.
[21:40] >> I have it on.
[21:41] >> Did Can you hear me?
[21:43] >> Okay.
[21:45] >> Uh, welcome to our ADR meeting. It's
[21:47] This is our call to order and uh we will
[21:51] introduce ourselves. I'm Joey
[21:52] Buckingham.
[21:55] » Hi, Laura Der.
[21:57] >> And Mark Fritz. Thanks for coming
[22:00] tonight everybody. Uh we now have an
[22:03] open time for public comments.
[22:06] Three minutes per speaker. Who's up?
[22:11] >> No. Joey,
[22:12] >> anyone out there. Okay. The next thing
[22:15] is approval of minutes from our last uh
[22:18] meeting on March 17th and I move to
[22:21] approve them.
[22:23] >> I can second that.
[22:26] >> Okay. So approved. We'll go to our first
[22:29] project which is 101 Upper Road and we
[22:32] will uh hear from
[22:36] Roberta or from Alex regarding this
[22:40] project.
[22:45] » Okay. Good evening ADR members. Uh
[22:48] tonight the applicant at 101 Upper Road
[22:50] is uh request a recommendation to the
[22:52] town council for design review a
[22:54] hillside law permit and a variance.
[22:58] forgot that this is not a powerpoint.
[23:00] So this is the existing site here.
[23:07] Okay, so the applicant is proposing to
[23:09] construct new landscape improvements in
[23:11] a northern portion of the property.
[23:13] Proposed features include a pool and
[23:15] spa, pool equipment, a patio, fire pit,
[23:18] outdoor kitchen, retaining walls over
[23:20] six feet in height, and an outdoor
[23:22] shower.
[23:24] This is a closer Oh.
[23:27] a closer up of the project. In addition,
[23:30] the project also includes installation
[23:31] of a new 6ft tall grape stake fence
[23:33] along the existing driveway. The
[23:36] variance is required to allow the
[23:38] proposed improvements within the side
[23:40] and rear yard setbacks and to construct
[23:42] retaining walls over 6 ft in height.
[23:46] And then staff request that the ADR
[23:48] group discuss the merits of the project
[23:50] and propose a recommendation to the town
[23:52] council. Thank you.
[23:55] Thanks, Alex. Uh, would the applicant or
[23:57] their designer like to propose the
[24:00] project? Describe it.
[24:19] » Hello.
[24:20] >> Uh, thanks for having us. I'm Lexi
[24:22] Verif. um the owner. Um this first off,
[24:26] thank you guys uh for all the time you
[24:28] guys uh spend on ADR. We really
[24:30] appreciate it. Uh this is a resubmitt of
[24:33] a project that we had approved through
[24:35] town council with a building permit in
[24:37] 2023. Um uh there's no real changes
[24:42] except for the roof uh has gone from a
[24:44] living roof to a crushed uh gravel roof.
[24:49] Um so appreciate your consideration.
[25:01] Hi everybody, Brad XT Imprint Landscape
[25:04] Architecture. Uh, as Alexi said, we had
[25:07] this project approved in 2023 all the
[25:10] way through ADR and to town council and
[25:12] for a building permit and um some things
[25:15] happened during COVID and we had to put
[25:17] the project on hold and so all of our
[25:20] approval processes became void and we
[25:23] started over. So leading up to this plan
[25:27] that you see here, we had made a couple,
[25:30] you know, significant changes with
[25:32] neighbor input regarding bulk and mass
[25:35] and reducing the patio that was in front
[25:38] of the building. And we changed the
[25:40] building configuration to reduce patios
[25:44] that jutted out towards the road. And so
[25:47] we did go through some significant um
[25:51] design changes at the time. And um the
[25:55] last ADR we we received approval from
[25:59] the members. I don't I think Mark was
[26:00] here. I don't remember if Joey you were
[26:02] here too. I believe
[26:04] >> I was the first round but I was sick the
[26:07] second round.
[26:08] >> Okay.
[26:08] >> But I think we have a notes.
[26:10] >> And Laura, I don't remember if you were
[26:12] here or not.
[26:14] >> I I was. Yeah.
[26:15] >> You were. Okay. Um, so we got the ADR
[26:19] approval and we got town council
[26:20] approval and we took these drawings all
[26:24] the way through building permit and all
[26:26] we had to do was pay the permit fees and then the project just some things
[26:33] happened COVID life upended and so the
[26:37] project got put on hold. So, um, last
[26:41] year I was contacted to bring the
[26:43] project back and we start first started
[26:46] with going to take the ADU out, try to
[26:49] save some money and just do a bathroom
[26:51] up in this location and that proved to
[26:53] be overly complicated because the
[26:57] bathroom didn't meet setbacks and there
[26:59] was a lot of back and forth with that.
[27:01] So we just decided with staff
[27:04] recommendations as well and trying to
[27:06] work out the financial aspect of it just
[27:09] to submit the exact same project that we
[27:11] had submitted before. So we submitted it
[27:15] and it went back to fire and in that
[27:17] time fire said we couldn't put a living
[27:19] roof on anymore. So the code had
[27:22] changed. So now the roof is a gravel
[27:26] roof which is unfortunate but there's
[27:29] nothing I can do about it. So, the goal
[27:32] was always to have this really tuck into
[27:34] the hillside and not be visible from any
[27:36] other property. Um,
[27:39] I think that's it for me. I'm I'm happy
[27:41] to answer any questions that you might
[27:42] have uh moving forward.
[27:48] » So, is the ad the ADU is just maybe a
[27:52] down the line thing?
[27:53] >> No, the ADU is happening for this
[27:55] project.
[27:56] >> Okay.
[27:56] >> Um, no, it's the project is unchanged.
[27:59] >> Okay. Yeah.
[28:02] >> Is the does it exactly match the
[28:05] rendering? There was some question about
[28:07] a deep overhang on the rendering. Yeah.
[28:10] >> It doesn't appear on the plans.
[28:12] >> Yeah, we we had the rendering adjusted
[28:15] today. Um
[28:18] the bulk the majority of that rendering
[28:20] was to show the fence because there was
[28:22] an initial fence proposed that was kind
[28:24] of heavy and really felt too um
[28:29] too too visible from the road. So we
[28:32] changed that fence to a really
[28:33] transparent wire type of a fence with
[28:36] planting around it. And somehow the the
[28:39] roof overhang didn't get picked up in
[28:41] that rendering change. But all the
[28:44] changes that are correct are on the
[28:46] drawings. So that rendering, yeah, we
[28:49] got it updated today in case you wanted
[28:51] to see it, but that roofer overhang is
[28:53] gone.
[28:55] I actually have a question about the
[28:57] removal of the green roof that obviously
[28:59] was forced on you, but
[29:02] >> that was a pretty attractive thing for
[29:04] the people above you to look down on.
[29:06] Yeah.
[29:06] >> And so now are they looking down on
[29:08] white gravel or what is this going to
[29:11] look like? because maybe a pitched roof
[29:14] would be more attractive there.
[29:16] >> Well, the building's so tucked into the
[29:17] hillside that the the hillside's going
[29:19] to kind of come down over part of it.
[29:21] And there's, if you look on the
[29:22] rendering, that's their driveway above
[29:25] >> that cuts over like that's the property
[29:27] line of 101 upper, cutting through the
[29:30] middle of their driveway, and their
[29:33] house is way far away from that. And
[29:35] there's oak trees and there's a hedge.
[29:36] See the hedge along the driveway?
[29:39] This cannot be seen from anywhere. That
[29:41] living roof was really a more of a
[29:44] feature for the pool area. Like you'd
[29:47] see the grasses up on top of the roof
[29:48] and the roof would feel like the
[29:50] building's like really like tucked into
[29:53] the hill.
[29:54] >> Got it. How about do you have
[29:56] >> I was just going to clarify something.
[29:58] We don't really have any purview for
[29:59] this ADU though, right?
[30:01] >> Like we have no I mean we don't
[30:03] >> has a living roof or slanted roof. We
[30:05] really don't.
[30:07] >> Yeah, exactly. But that was that was our
[30:09] only comment on our resubmitt.
[30:11] >> So there's there's actually zero change
[30:13] to the part that the ADR has any
[30:16] >> that's what I was
[30:17] >> zero anything to mention.
[30:19] >> One one other question and this is
[30:21] actually
[30:22] >> it is attached to the the
[30:25] >> ADU but this there's a staircase that
[30:27] dumps down onto the driveway like a
[30:30] spiral staircase. Is that still there?
[30:32] And was that there before? That was
[30:34] there before and that's just like timber
[30:36] steps into the hillside and that's
[30:38] there's an entrance to the house that's
[30:40] staying but the fire department wanted a
[30:42] secondary access. Got it.
[30:44] >> And they said it could just be like put
[30:46] railroad ties into the hill and so they
[30:49] could drag a hose up
[30:51] >> from a fire truck.
[30:52] >> It was it's not meant to be a functional
[30:56] access to this space. We're going to try
[30:57] to hide it as much as anything.
[31:00] >> Okay, great.
[31:01] >> Yeah. There won't be an address to it or
[31:02] anything like that.
[31:04] >> Okay. Thank you.
[31:05] >> Yeah.
[31:05] >> Does anyone have any other questions of
[31:08] Brad?
[31:10] >> Does anyone in the audience have any
[31:12] comments or online? Yes.
[31:25] » Um I'm curious. I live um down I I live
[31:28] on um Sierra Circle which is there and
[31:32] there are a lot of it's down below Toyon
[31:35] Drive and so my my question is um were there and I don't and I've never
[31:43] had done something like this so I don't
[31:45] know if I'm out of line with my question
[31:46] so excuse me if I am but um was were
[31:50] there any studies done excuse me
[31:52] >> um as to the
[31:53] >> Is this for 101 upper
[31:55] >> it's for 101 one and and 313. Yeah.
[31:59] >> Because they're both doing extensions.
[32:01] And so my concern is the stability of
[32:03] the hillside because there have been
[32:06] slides coming down that have come down
[32:08] that hillside before. I mean pretty bad
[32:13] >> on onto Sierra Circle. Um and so I'm
[32:18] just concerned about the and there's a
[32:20] lot of um underground water in the
[32:23] winter time there streams um even during
[32:27] like now there's there's water that
[32:29] comes down.
[32:30] >> Are you referring to 313 upper toyon
[32:33] >> both?
[32:33] >> Okay. Okay. I get it. I get it. Just
[32:36] it's a general commentary on drainage
[32:38] and
[32:38] >> right. Yeah. I just well and I just want
[32:40] to make sure that the stability for the place houses below have been taken
[32:45] into consideration on you know extensive
[32:49] buildouts up above
[32:50] >> the ADR this design review that we run
[32:55] on these nights is really more about the
[32:57] design and if it meets the criteria of
[32:59] the town's code any project that would
[33:03] be approved by the town and go through
[33:06] building planning
[33:08] >> they have to submit all sorts of soil
[33:11] soils engineers, structural engineers,
[33:13] civil engineers, drainage, you know,
[33:16] they are very well vetted before they
[33:19] can build something like this.
[33:20] >> And they take into consideration.
[33:22] >> Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay.
[33:23] >> Yes. It's it's pretty hard to get the
[33:26] permit to build such a thing.
[33:28] >> Okay.
[33:28] >> Because a lot of agencies and
[33:30] consultants are required.
[33:32] >> Okay.
[33:32] >> But our job here tonight is much more of
[33:35] a design.
[33:36] >> Okay. Okay. Thank you. But thank you for
[33:38] coming.
[33:39] >> My question. It's good to
[33:40] >> No, thank you for coming. It's a valid
[33:42] worry.
[33:43] >> Thank you.
[33:47] » Yes.
[33:51] » So to your question, um uh we did have a
[33:54] full uh structural engineer and mockup
[33:57] and when we went through approval uh
[33:59] previously, uh we've submitted all that.
[34:02] Um and so yes, we've gone through all
[34:04] the necessary steps even though it's not
[34:06] at this stage. Uh we did it previously.
[34:10] >> Thanks.
[34:12] >> So I'm going to bring it back to ADR if
[34:15] we have any questions or if we are ready
[34:18] to make our commentary.
[34:20] >> No questions for me.
[34:21] >> Any questions? Do you want to start?
[34:25] >> Um sure. I I think based on the fact
[34:28] that the project hasn't changed from
[34:31] when we approved it before, I feel
[34:33] comfortable going ahead and approving it
[34:36] again. Thanks.
[34:38] >> Yeah, same here. No additional comments.
[34:40] Still a good project. Hope you're able
[34:42] to build it.
[34:43] >> Same three.
[34:46] >> Okay, good luck.
[34:52] The next project is 313 Upper Toyan
[34:57] and Alex or Robera, would you guys like
[34:59] to
[35:01] >> Yeah. Yeah. Good evening. Uh ADR members
[35:03] to us.
[35:04] >> Tonight, the applicant at 313 upper
[35:05] Toyan is requesting a recommendation to
[35:08] the town council for design review and a
[35:09] hillside lot permit. The project is
[35:12] proposing I'll give you a sec. All
[35:14] right. This is the existing site right
[35:16] now and the um they're proposing to
[35:19] build a new swimming pool where the
[35:22] existing lawn is at. You can here is the
[35:28] let me zoom in.
[35:31] Okay. Uh this indoor this new outdoor
[35:34] pool will replace the indoor pool and
[35:36] the project will also include
[35:37] approximately 280 ft of new heartscape
[35:40] between the main residence and the
[35:42] proposed pool. Uh, the pool equipment
[35:44] will be located beneath a future parking
[35:46] pad approved back in 2025 and staff
[35:50] request that the EDR group provide a
[35:52] recommendation to the town council.
[35:53] Thank you.
[35:56] >> Thanks, Alex. Is there a applicant here?
[35:59] Architect,
[36:01] designer.
[36:06] » Good afternoon. Uh, Bob Dwire, Element
[36:09] Outdoor Pool Construction. It's a pretty
[36:12] simple project. There's an existing pool
[36:14] that was removed. We're moving the pool
[36:16] to the outside. It is all supported on
[36:18] peers, so there's no influence on the
[36:21] wall itself. We won't introduce any
[36:23] additional water to the soils,
[36:25] obviously, because the pool's designed
[36:26] not to leak. So, I'm not sure any other
[36:30] input I could have for you, but uh
[36:34] rather simple, I think.
[36:36] >> Thank you. Do you have any questions,
[36:39] Adr of
[36:41] Gentlemen,
[36:42] >> could could you guys pull up the section
[36:45] that shows the pool equipment?
[36:48] >> Um,
[36:50] do you have that on there, Alex?
[36:52] >> Yeah. Give me a sec.
[36:54] >> It's going to be down below the wall.
[36:56] Okay. So, the pool will be up top and
[36:58] the equipment will be lower than the pool.
[37:01] >> It is it enclosed?
[37:04] >> No, it's an open. It's the existing
[37:06] equipment is open now and this would be
[37:08] open also. Oh, so that's where the
[37:10] equipment for the indoor pool is.
[37:12] >> Yeah, there's an existing equipment
[37:13] location for the indoor pool. Now, I'm
[37:15] not sure if that moved because of a
[37:17] setback, but it would be behind the same
[37:19] wall.
[37:22] >> My understanding is that the pool
[37:23] equipment is going under the previously
[37:25] approved.
[37:26] >> I don't I don't know anything about the
[37:28] deck or the the carport.
[37:32] >> The pool equipment is going Remember
[37:34] this is the project that has the parking
[37:36] deck that we approved. They're tucking
[37:38] the pool equipment under that,
[37:40] >> right?
[37:41] >> That's what I thought. And then is it
[37:42] >> I understood from the presentation.
[37:44] >> And then is that in an enclosed?
[37:46] >> It's not. I mean,
[37:48] >> no, there's no fencing around it or
[37:50] anything like that. It's an open pad
[37:52] with there's air conditioning there.
[37:53] There's all different equipment
[37:56] >> existing.
[37:57] >> Okay.
[37:57] >> The parking pad. Oh, my mouse is kind of
[38:00] >> Do you have that, Alex? Do you have that
[38:02] in the in the drawings? Is the parking
[38:03] pad there?
[38:04] >> It it it's going to be here, but it it's
[38:06] not showing on the drawings, but it's
[38:08] going to be like this is where the
[38:10] parking pad is going to be. And this is
[38:12] where the pool equipment
[38:14] is going to be located. And this is the
[38:17] elevation of the pool equipment down
[38:20] there.
[38:20] >> Okay. Thank you.
[38:22] >> But this is where ex Yeah, this is where
[38:23] the pool equipment I mean the parking
[38:25] pad's going to be.
[38:26] >> Okay. Thank you.
[38:29] >> I don't have any further questions. You
[38:30] guys have any further questions?
[38:31] >> You have any further questions?
[38:34] Um,
[38:35] I guess not. Are there any public
[38:38] comments on this project?
[38:41] >> Thank you, sir.
[38:42] >> Oh, you're welcome.
[38:43] >> There's no one online.
[38:55] » No, no, no one online.
[38:58] >> Okay, back to us for discussion.
[39:05] I'll go first. Yeah, go ahead. I don't
[39:06] have any problem with the project, the
[39:08] pool, where it's it's being moved from
[39:10] inside to outside. It seems like a
[39:12] perfect place for it. I do have a
[39:14] problem with the uh pool equipment not
[39:17] being better screened or covered just
[39:21] from a track, you know, just from a
[39:23] aesthetic point of view and a noise
[39:26] point of view. I think it can be
[39:28] enclosed in some kind of a noise proof
[39:31] uh enclosure. We basically make
[39:33] everybody else do that. It's
[39:36] >> you enclosed building
[39:38] >> and it there there's all sorts of pool
[39:40] pardon me pool equipment enclosures that
[39:44] meet the decibel requirement for
[39:49] there. We use them all the time in these
[39:51] various projects, but basically enclose
[39:53] it so it's soundproof
[39:56] and people don't see it also.
[39:59] >> Yeah, I don't know where anybody would
[40:01] see this.
[40:05] » I'm not sure where anybody would see
[40:06] this equipment, but as far as
[40:08] soundproofing it, um, we've done sound
[40:12] walls around it, screening, but, uh, if
[40:15] we start putting a roof on it, then we
[40:17] have to vent the heater. Um,
[40:20] but we'd al definitely entertain looking
[40:23] at, you know, limiting the sound.
[40:26] >> What do you, that's basically our
[40:28] requirement.
[40:29] >> Yeah, I think I think it's location
[40:31] based on the the topography. It's
[40:33] sitting up above, you know, projecting
[40:35] down the canyon. I would think that
[40:37] there should be some soundation around
[40:39] the pool. We we generally
[40:42] >> apply that rule across the board. Um,
[40:44] regardless of how close it is to a
[40:46] proper line. When it's closer to a
[40:47] proper line, we like to to really be
[40:48] enclosed with a roof and whatnot.
[40:50] >> I think in this particular case, I could
[40:52] see recommending
[40:54] >> surrounding it on three sides because
[40:55] the back side is already the the
[40:57] retaining wall,
[40:58] >> right?
[40:58] >> So, I could see something that's sound
[41:00] uh mitigating this so it doesn't project
[41:02] down the canyon. Um that would be
[41:05] something I'd recom I strongly
[41:07] recommend.
[41:07] >> And you have u parameters for that for
[41:11] us to look at to establish a design for
[41:14] that. We do have some decibel parameters
[41:16] that uh are in our in our you guys can
[41:19] share those.
[41:20] >> Yes, we also have Alex online. Uh can
[41:22] you hear us?
[41:23] >> Yes. Can you hear me? Okay.
[41:25] >> Yeah.
[41:26] >> Okay, great. Um thank you all for
[41:28] reviewing this. I am the owner of the
[41:31] property. I have just a few sick kids at
[41:33] home, so I wasn't able to attend today.
[41:35] Um, so I did want to clarify that with
[41:38] the parking deck that you guys approved
[41:40] for us, there was a design to have
[41:44] screening done where the equipment was
[41:46] for aesthetic purposes for the neighbor
[41:50] as well as for sound purposes. And so we
[41:52] will be uh carrying through that. The
[41:56] pool equipment where it sits currently
[41:59] um is in the setback um which is where
[42:02] it was existing uh when the home was
[42:04] built I believe. And so we will be
[42:07] moving it to the left side of where the
[42:09] generator is um further from the
[42:12] neighbor uh so that it is not in the
[42:15] setback anymore and closer to where the
[42:17] pool is. And so the screening should uh
[42:21] follow the concrete pad essentially that
[42:25] is at the lower part of the retaining
[42:27] wall and um should include this along
[42:30] with the uh the AC condenser units and
[42:33] the um the generator that's there.
[42:38] >> Perfect. I appreciate that
[42:40] clarification.
[42:41] >> Sure. Not a problem.
[42:42] >> Yeah, that's great.
[42:43] >> Yeah.
[42:44] >> Okay. Uh I my comments are really the
[42:47] same as
[42:49] um Mark and Joey. So the main concern is
[42:52] just the noise from that equipment
[42:54] because it is you know sound travels
[42:58] down and um the neighbor's house is also
[43:02] kind of right there. So if that's
[43:04] addressed I think the location of the
[43:05] pool looks great. So thanks. So just to
[43:10] wrap it up, we move to approve 30 pool
[43:13] location's fine, equipment location is
[43:16] fine, but please provide sound
[43:18] attenuation
[43:20] on basically three sides and then the
[43:23] fourth side is the retaining wall.
[43:24] >> Yep, sounds right.
[43:26] >> Thank you.
[43:26] >> Oh, thank you.
[43:34] » Just in time. Next project is 111
[43:38] Bolinus Avenue. And Alex, could you
[43:42] >> uh Good evening. Uh the applicant at 111
[43:44] Bolinas Avenue is requesting a
[43:46] recommendation to the count council for
[43:49] uh design review, an ADU permit, and a
[43:51] non-conformity permit.
[43:54] Okay. So, this is the existing site
[43:57] plan. Um
[44:00] you can see here and this is the
[44:01] proposed site plan with the additions.
[44:04] Uh the project proposes to convert the
[44:06] existing 492T cottage into a detach ADU
[44:10] and transfer 338 square feet of floor
[44:13] area to the existing residence. The
[44:16] scope of work includes an interior
[44:17] remodel with additions no changes to the
[44:20] exterior materials. The project also
[44:22] proposes to expand the rear deck to
[44:24] align with the addition seen here.
[44:28] A non-conformity permit is required to
[44:30] allow extending the house which is
[44:31] currently non-conforming with respect to
[44:33] the setbacks. An ADU permit is required
[44:36] to allow the existing cottage to be
[44:38] converted to a new ADU and transfer
[44:41] square footage to the primary residence.
[44:44] And staff request that the ADR group
[44:47] discuss the merits of the project and
[44:48] provide a formal recommendation to the
[44:50] town council. And these are some of the
[44:52] elev elevations of the uh proposed
[44:55] additions.
[44:57] East elevation, north elevation,
[45:00] west elevation, south elevation, uh the
[45:03] deck expansion here. That's it.
[45:08] >> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant
[45:09] like to uh present?
[45:11] >> Yeah, I believe the applicants online.
[45:14] Let me um
[45:15] >> No, it's actually they're right they're
[45:17] right here behind.
[45:18] >> Sorry.
[45:19] >> Yes. Yes. Thanks.
[45:26] hear me? Yep. Good. Hi, I'm Dave Jookum,
[45:29] the architect, and I just want to
[45:31] clarify a couple things. Uh, it's
[45:33] partially my fault. It is my fault. Uh,
[45:36] the the square footage of the ADU is or
[45:40] cottage now turned into an ADU is
[45:42] actually 421.
[45:44] And the amount of square footage we're
[45:46] transferring is 208. and that shows on
[45:50] uh the first page, the cover page with
[45:52] the uh project data. That is all
[45:54] accurate. What's inaccurate is is the
[45:57] little uh project description down at
[45:59] the bottom corner of that page, but it's
[46:02] that it's all accurate.
[46:04] And so I uh just a couple of things to
[46:08] clarify. Uh the reason that the uh the
[46:12] two additions, not the front one, but
[46:14] the two rear editions at the back um are
[46:19] non-conforming is because like every
[46:22] project on that or every house on that
[46:24] street, it they were built before the
[46:26] current zoning. So, um we've got 5'4 on
[46:30] one side, 8 feet on the other side. And
[46:33] um if if we were if the house were
[46:37] actually built in the um within all the
[46:40] setbacks, it would be 30 ft wide, 90 ft
[46:44] long. Um which we'd have to build 30 ft
[46:48] wide, 80 ft long just to get the square
[46:50] footage in there that we were talking
[46:52] about. So that's basically a San
[46:54] Francisco rowhouse, you know, which is
[46:56] usually 25 ft wide and that would be 30
[46:59] ft wide. So, we're we're like all the
[47:02] other houses on the uh on the block, and
[47:05] we're just filling out little mouse
[47:06] bites that are in the in the house.
[47:10] Um, and then the other thing that I
[47:12] wanted to clarify was about the deck
[47:14] extension on the back. It's basically
[47:16] just a a deep uh landing outside the
[47:19] doors. It's 5t deep um and it's um um a
[47:25] foot off the ground. So it's it's not a
[47:27] gargantuan duck that's looking over
[47:29] neighbors or anything like that. So
[47:30] that's all it is.
[47:31] >> Hold on just a sec. Could you put the
[47:33] plans back? I love looking at Dave, but
[47:35] I would like to see the plans on the
[47:36] screen.
[47:37] >> Yeah,
[47:38] >> it we just had had them up for a sec.
[47:41] >> Uh do you want the elevations or the
[47:43] >> just we can wherever what you're
[47:45] whatever you're talking about. It would
[47:47] be nice to see it on the screen.
[47:49] >> Yeah, but it's not working.
[47:53] » I can use my mouse. That's I can I can
[47:56] go point. It's not working.
[47:58] >> No.
[48:01] >> Yeah.
[48:04] » See it?
[48:05] >> We're We're having techn technological
[48:08] difficulties in this room tonight.
[48:16] » So, the little mouse bites we're filling
[48:18] in is this one and this one. This deck
[48:22] goes along and wraps into where that
[48:26] this extension is now.
[48:29] So, we're replacing that deck with with
[48:33] a new building to fill out that mouse
[48:35] bite. And then this deck is just
[48:38] extending over to the edge. And that's
[48:41] basically just a a 5-ft landing a foot
[48:44] off the ground to get you down to the
[48:46] backyard. Um, that's all it is. And this
[48:49] just fills out this little corner. Uh
[48:52] making that that's that is the existing
[48:55] master bath. And so we're, you know,
[48:59] adding 40% area to the master bath.
[49:03] >> Okay. Thank you. Do any of you have any
[49:06] questions of Dave or the
[49:09] >> No.
[49:10] >> Robera or Alex? Is there anyone in the
[49:13] audience who has any questions or
[49:15] online?
[49:17] Uh, and there's no one online.
[49:19] >> Okay, we'll bring it back to the ADR.
[49:23] Uh, who wants to go first with this one?
[49:27] >> Um, I can go first. I I think that the
[49:31] project looks like a nice project. Um,
[49:33] appreciate the, you know, small scale of
[49:36] the renovation materials that match
[49:40] existing. Um,
[49:42] and the
[49:45] change from the square footage to turn
[49:48] the shed in the back or the little guest
[49:51] room in the back to a ADU.
[49:54] I mean, that's all Roberta, that's all
[49:58] correct, right? Like, we don't have to
[50:00] Okay. Um,
[50:03] and I mean I think the main thing is the
[50:06] deck, but it's 12 in off the ground, so
[50:09] it's not like it's 3 ft out looking into
[50:12] the neighbor's backyard. So because of
[50:14] that, I could see the exception for that
[50:18] um to get a variance.
[50:21] Um,
[50:24] yeah. And the one the one thing
[50:27] that in elevation from the uh east side
[50:31] I didn't love was the roof line of the
[50:33] new addition at the rear, but no one's
[50:36] ever going to really see that, I don't
[50:38] think. Um it's really well screened
[50:40] between the neighbors and so um I'm okay
[50:45] with it as designed.
[50:47] Thanks.
[50:49] >> I'll go next. I have no problem with the
[50:51] design. I think it's a really good use
[50:54] of the extra square footage that they
[50:56] gained from the ADU conversion. And I
[51:00] the findings I would make are that on
[51:03] that street, I mean, if they were to put
[51:05] that extra square footage anywhere else
[51:07] in the house, it would either be in the
[51:10] front of the house, in the middle, or in
[51:12] the back, in the middle. there's kind of
[51:14] that it's in the logical place and it
[51:17] doesn't really I mean we talk a lot
[51:20] about exacerbating a nonconformity but
[51:22] everything on that street is
[51:23] non-conforming and pretty much anywhere
[51:25] you put that square footage is
[51:26] non-conforming so bottom line I can
[51:29] support it as drawn
[51:33] » yeah 100% I don't have any additional
[51:35] comments it's perfectly in keeping with
[51:37] the types of houses that are along
[51:38] bolinus and I think that deck uh to the
[51:41] earlier points
[51:43] barely will register um because it's so
[51:46] close to the ground. I don't think it's
[51:47] an impediment to the neighbors in any
[51:49] way, shape, or form. So, I could support
[51:50] that variance. Yeah.
[51:52] >> Great. So, 30 approved. Thanks.
[52:00] » Okay, we have one last one. Can everyone
[52:03] hear me? We have three Willow Hill Road.
[52:07] And Alex, take it away.
[52:09] >> Yeah. The uh the applicant at three
[52:11] Willowhood Road is requesting a
[52:12] recommendation to the town council for
[52:14] design review, non-conformity permit, a
[52:16] hillside lot permit, and a variance. So,
[52:19] this is the existing site here.
[52:24] And they are proposing an interior
[52:26] remodel with a Juliet balcony off the
[52:28] sun sunroom and an exterior spiral
[52:31] staircase connecting to the deck. The
[52:33] project also proposes reconstruction of
[52:36] the existing non-conforming two-level
[52:38] rear deck which will be reduced in size
[52:40] and include a barbecue area, a steel
[52:43] trellis, sun shade at the upper level.
[52:47] Uh
[52:48] here
[52:51] uh new terraces with stacked stone walls
[52:53] and a hot tub are also proposed in the
[52:55] rear yard and a new parking deck is
[52:58] proposed adjacent to the existing
[53:01] garage. A non-conformative permit is
[53:03] required to allow the reconstruction of
[53:05] the existing deck and a variance is
[53:08] required to construct the terraces walls
[53:10] in the rear yard setback, a hot tub and
[53:12] a and the trellis in the rear and
[53:13] sideyard setback and the parking deck in
[53:16] the front yard setback and staff
[53:18] requires that the ADR group provide a
[53:20] recommendation to the town council.
[53:22] Thank you.
[53:23] >> Thanks, Alex. And would the applicant
[53:25] like to propose the project?
[53:39] Good evening.
[53:40] >> Hi
[53:40] >> everybody. Steven, is he here or he's
[53:43] just in the ether out there somewhere?
[53:44] Or maybe not.
[53:45] >> He is not with us this evening.
[53:47] >> Well, anyway, we were here I think a lot
[53:50] much like the first project that was
[53:52] presented three years ago or more uh
[53:55] with a very kind of similar proposal. uh
[53:58] previous proposal that was approved uh
[54:01] included the rebuild of the deck, uh a
[54:04] lot of the kind of restoration of the
[54:07] hillside, but it also included a
[54:10] swimming pool. Um
[54:12] so, uh anyway, uh here we are now. And I
[54:16] think that there's a lot of similarities
[54:18] between what we previously presented and
[54:21] what's here now, but there's much more
[54:24] emphasis on the deck, I think, in the
[54:26] living experience of
[54:29] um
[54:31] being in on the hillside there. And if
[54:34] you've visited, I think you all have
[54:36] maybe visited the property and
[54:39] um everything that's being done here or
[54:41] proposed is voluntary. So, there's
[54:44] already an existing deck there, right?
[54:45] You can put furniture on and live
[54:47] outside, but it just is really
[54:49] unsightly.
[54:50] Uh there's a strong emphasis, I think,
[54:52] for the homeowner who we've done many
[54:54] projects with to uh really make it a
[54:57] home and make it make sense. And uh so
[55:01] the idea of replacing that deck um for a
[55:05] more uh uh kind of enjoyable outdoor
[55:09] experience, but also to make something
[55:11] that fits, I think, on the hillside in
[55:13] this very challenging site
[55:16] uh uh more appropriate, I'll just say.
[55:19] And I think that um you know, a lot of
[55:22] the experience of the house is viewed
[55:24] through this deck, too, from the
[55:26] bedrooms below.
[55:28] And I think the idea of lightening that
[55:31] structure and making it a structure of
[55:33] interest will help those spaces as well.
[55:37] Um and and then another kind of
[55:40] motivation is to I think bring
[55:45] the experience down to the garden which
[55:48] currently is just a benched off flat
[55:51] area. Um and you know the again another
[55:55] voluntary kind of experiential exercise
[55:59] is to bring the hillside back restore
[56:02] the hillside and bring it back to the
[56:04] house. And we're proposing a series of
[56:07] these circular uh terraces that aren't
[56:11] the hillside but they mimic the hillside
[56:13] and are also uh areas of which you could
[56:16] occupy and have access to the rest of
[56:19] the site. So, uh, it helps ground the
[56:22] building. Um, and you know, I think
[56:25] again makes this such a val, you know,
[56:29] otherwise unused portion of the
[56:31] property, makes it inviting and like an
[56:35] experience that you would want to
[56:37] participate in. Um
[56:41] the uh other aspect of this project I
[56:45] think Alex that you pointed out is the
[56:47] uh parking deck which is um
[56:51] adjacent to the existing garage
[56:54] structure. And one of the initial like
[56:58] uh head scratchers uh if you've been up
[57:00] that road is like you know visitors
[57:02] coming and kind of taking your life into
[57:04] your hands like backing out of the
[57:06] driveway and or driving way up the to
[57:10] the top of the hill to turn around in
[57:12] somebody else's driveway. So, uh,
[57:14] there's a real need, I think, for the
[57:17] ability for a car to kind of maneuver,
[57:20] park safely or visitor to come and back,
[57:25] you know, pull in and then back safely
[57:27] back out onto Willow Hill. And I also
[57:31] think that a number of the
[57:34] few neighbors that are on this hill
[57:36] would appreciate it, I think, as well,
[57:37] just having that,
[57:40] I think, access to a turnaround up
[57:43] there. Um,
[57:45] so, um, I think that, you know, pretty
[57:49] much, uh, other than the details, I
[57:51] think that kind of describes what we're
[57:54] looking to do here. So, I'm happy to
[57:57] answer any questions that
[57:59] any
[58:00] >> Thank you.
[58:00] >> Yeah.
[58:01] >> Do Do any of you either of you have
[58:03] questions
[58:05] >> of the designer?
[58:06] >> Sure. I I have two questions. Uh first,
[58:09] I guess what was the thought process
[58:12] when locating the spa, the hot tub?
[58:16] >> Uh well, there's an area down uh at the
[58:19] lower level. Uh it's also for privacy I
[58:23] think too from viewing from the upper
[58:25] part of the deck. There's also an area
[58:27] that is on the lower part of the site
[58:29] that is below the bedroom level that has
[58:32] access to kind of a changing room or
[58:36] like potentially you know a bathroom
[58:39] down there. So putting it, I think, at
[58:41] that edge is also another kind of
[58:44] element, a built element that helps with
[58:47] restoring the hillside down there, too,
[58:49] because we're taking that long asphalt
[58:52] driveway out. So
[58:53] >> Oh, it is. Okay, that was my second
[58:55] question was going to be about that
[58:57] driveway because that Yeah,
[58:58] >> I pulled into that. I'm sorry. I pulled
[59:00] into that today and then I had to
[59:03] >> back up, go up the hill.
[59:06] >> Yeah. uh and it's right at the edge of
[59:07] the property. So there's it's on a
[59:09] cliff, you know. So there's like we
[59:11] looked and looked and looked at the
[59:12] possibility of creating a kind of a
[59:14] parking pad there or turnaround and it
[59:16] just became a monumental kind of
[59:18] engineering exercise. So
[59:20] >> okay,
[59:21] >> so the idea is that we we're bringing
[59:22] the hills that beautiful hillside and
[59:24] the um natives up to the building edge
[59:29] and just you know getting rid of the
[59:32] kind of carved in scars that have just
[59:35] whatever been a practical necessity I
[59:38] think over the years. But
[59:41] um yeah,
[59:44] >> are any of those little terraces the
[59:48] lower level walls do they reach anything
[59:50] above 3 ft?
[59:52] >> No, we terrace them all up to 30 in. So
[59:55] we don't need any handrails or
[59:57] >> that was intentional. Yeah.
[59:58] >> And no real tree loss for those as well,
[1:00:01] right?
[1:00:02] >> No, not for those. are sort of uh being
[1:00:04] built on top of what's now a kind of a
[1:00:06] flat
[1:00:08] >> grass area. Um there are yeah there's
[1:00:11] the beauty of those trees that are
[1:00:13] around there. We're not proposing to
[1:00:15] take out any of those. If anything,
[1:00:16] we're kind of pulling those trees with
[1:00:18] new specimens or new plants up the
[1:00:22] hillside, you know, big big box trees
[1:00:25] that will kind of I think get as close
[1:00:27] to a instant environment there as you
[1:00:30] can, you know, like in terms of Yeah.
[1:00:33] practically. So,
[1:00:35] >> question at this point, has this gone
[1:00:37] through fire department? Because
[1:00:39] >> yeah,
[1:00:39] >> there's a very good chance a lot of
[1:00:42] trees will be leaving you. I yeah I
[1:00:45] think it went through some scrutiny.
[1:00:47] Yeah. So head shaking over there. Thanks
[1:00:49] Savannah. But uh yeah so
[1:00:52] if you want to come
[1:01:01] » the fire the fire department did see all
[1:01:04] of the plans and they didn't have any
[1:01:06] comments about the trees. They were okay
[1:01:08] with the trees that we were taking
[1:01:09] because we were adding so many more. And
[1:01:11] the trees that we were taking were are
[1:01:13] um fire prone I guess. Um they did have
[1:01:18] other issues but with something else
[1:01:20] that we removed from the project. So
[1:01:23] they have seen the project and we've
[1:01:25] discussed with them. Um great all of
[1:01:27] these aspects.
[1:01:28] >> I'm just kind of curious actually. Thank
[1:01:30] you. Thank you.
[1:01:31] >> Any other questions of
[1:01:33] >> um Sure. just questions now focusing on
[1:01:37] the
[1:01:39] steel mesh railings um at the deck and
[1:01:43] then also the volume at the spiral
[1:01:46] staircase. Um sorry if you could explain
[1:01:50] that a little bit.
[1:01:50] >> Yeah, expand on that. Well, I think that
[1:01:52] the um mesh is a you know it's a
[1:01:56] transparent I think there's some images
[1:01:57] up there of the mesh that we've used
[1:01:59] successfully
[1:02:01] uh in the past. Um, I think that
[1:02:04] there's, you know, there's a maybe a
[1:02:06] initial thought that when you do a deck
[1:02:08] or minimal deck, you do some linear
[1:02:13] cable railing or make it look like a
[1:02:15] deck. I think our idea here was not so
[1:02:17] much to make it a deck, but make it a
[1:02:21] extension of the house
[1:02:23] that's open to the air, right? So it has
[1:02:27] some volume and some mass to it that is
[1:02:31] needed I think to ground that structure.
[1:02:35] And the mesh is you know like a very
[1:02:38] sort of image there in the upper right
[1:02:40] hand corner where we use a variation of
[1:02:43] different uh openings in the mesh or
[1:02:47] orientation of the mesh to allow that
[1:02:50] air and light to go through but also to
[1:02:53] create a kind of a formal
[1:02:56] aspect and proportion to it that uh is
[1:03:00] you know uh goes outside I think of what
[1:03:03] maybe is typically seen the spiral stair
[1:03:08] is actually a really efficient way to
[1:03:10] make a stair from a volume standpoint
[1:03:13] too is in terms of like its perceived
[1:03:16] mass on a site first of all it's round
[1:03:19] you know I think if you square those
[1:03:20] edges off it becomes a much more robust
[1:03:23] looking stair and two the idea of a
[1:03:25] round element too the way it kind of
[1:03:27] light
[1:03:29] >> moves around it I think it would
[1:03:30] actually have a really light
[1:03:33] >> almost arboritum type feel to it as you
[1:03:36] move the experience as you move from
[1:03:38] that upper deck
[1:03:40] uh down below into the garden. So I
[1:03:42] think that's the the reason for it.
[1:03:45] Yeah. So
[1:03:46] >> Okay. And so it's like a design element
[1:03:48] rather than just having the railing kind
[1:03:51] of going up as the staircase spirals up
[1:03:55] you or
[1:03:57] >> you want it as that whole solid volume.
[1:03:59] >> I'm not understanding the question.
[1:04:01] that uh
[1:04:02] >> I I think what she's describing is in if
[1:04:04] you the metal mesh is completely
[1:04:07] >> encasing the spiral stair from base to
[1:04:10] top on all three sides you got there
[1:04:15] panels that go down. Yep.
[1:04:17] >> Having it follow the actual
[1:04:18] >> the elevation
[1:04:20] and and railings.
[1:04:21] >> Correct. Yeah. You would see the
[1:04:23] silhouette of the stair. Thank you. they
[1:04:25] would see the silhouette of the
[1:04:26] structure of the stair behind the mesh
[1:04:30] paneling as opposed to uh like an open
[1:04:33] railing where maybe you would see
[1:04:35] pickets or like you know some kind of
[1:04:37] more um
[1:04:39] >> Okay. I'm just thinking about it in a
[1:04:41] like a bulk and mass perspective from
[1:04:43] down the view from down the hill looking
[1:04:46] up.
[1:04:46] >> Yeah.
[1:04:47] Uh well, I think we're also
[1:04:50] concerned about that. You know,
[1:04:51] obviously I I just want I think it's the
[1:04:54] uh again the concept of making this a
[1:04:58] structure that
[1:04:59] >> takes it out of the deck language,
[1:05:01] right? But it's I don't think that that
[1:05:03] that's not going to be a
[1:05:06] >> I mean, even if they can see it, I hope
[1:05:07] they can see it. It's going to look
[1:05:09] great, you know? So, uh, you know, I I I
[1:05:12] don't know how visible it is down there,
[1:05:15] but I I think it's going to be quite a
[1:05:17] lovely and kind of magical
[1:05:20] piece of the architecture that you're
[1:05:22] going to be able to see the trees
[1:05:24] through. And again, as you kind of move
[1:05:27] through that space, I feel like it
[1:05:30] >> gives it some
[1:05:31] >> the out
[1:05:32] >> substance as opposed to, you know, you
[1:05:34] maybe see
[1:05:36] >> anywhere, you know. So, but that's the
[1:05:39] idea. I don't think it's maybe presented
[1:05:41] as such a massive element maybe as the
[1:05:44] drawings depict. Um but um but it is
[1:05:48] part of the idea. So
[1:05:50] >> Okay. Thank you.
[1:05:52] >> Can I ask another question uh about the
[1:05:54] parking pad? The geometry of the parking
[1:05:56] pad specifically. It uh just the it's
[1:05:59] sort of a triangular shape. I wasn't
[1:06:02] sure where the the right hand side is
[1:06:04] spled, but I was trying to think if
[1:06:06] you're coming from below the hill,
[1:06:08] you're coming up backing out of that angle doesn't really facilitate
[1:06:13] easy pull in pull out. So, I wasn't sure
[1:06:14] where that angle came from.
[1:06:16] >> Yeah. Well, I think that the other idea
[1:06:18] there is that what you would do is like
[1:06:19] if it wasn't maybe a a more traditional
[1:06:21] twocar parking pad is that that you
[1:06:24] would just make that a rectangle, right?
[1:06:25] you know, so I think just cut cutting
[1:06:28] out the edge of that makes it just known
[1:06:30] that it's like a kind of not permanent
[1:06:33] parking space. It's a onecar parking
[1:06:35] space. You could pull out the usually
[1:06:37] people come up from below. They pull in
[1:06:39] there and then when they leave there's
[1:06:41] no reason to go back up the hill. So you
[1:06:44] kind of pull out in that direction of
[1:06:45] that angle onto Willow Hill and then
[1:06:48] down Willow Hill. Um, so I think the
[1:06:51] idea here is really just to kind of keep
[1:06:53] the space functional as a turnaround,
[1:06:55] but not make some massive parking deck
[1:06:58] that kind of competes with the garage
[1:07:01] itself. I think there's a lot of
[1:07:02] sensitivity
[1:07:04] to this side of the house for that very
[1:07:07] reason for the neighbors. I think that
[1:07:09] they experience this valley that kind of
[1:07:12] goes down. There's a walk path that goes
[1:07:14] down from Willow Hill to Madrron and you
[1:07:19] know so you would be walking near this
[1:07:21] structure. So again it needs to have
[1:07:25] some
[1:07:27] lightness and I think beauty to it and
[1:07:30] uh take it out of maybe the typical
[1:07:33] language of
[1:07:35] >> deck. Do you have an elevation of that
[1:07:38] parking deck?
[1:07:39] >> Yeah.
[1:07:39] >> What it looks like? Yeah, I think it's
[1:07:42] >> you find it.
[1:07:44] >> There it is. Bottom right.
[1:07:49] » I think too if you look at the site
[1:07:50] plan, you can kind of see the shape of
[1:07:52] the road too. It kind of makes a little
[1:07:54] maybe more sense looking at that too.
[1:07:56] But that's the those are the elevations
[1:07:58] of the Yep.
[1:08:01] >> Do you have any more questions on that
[1:08:02] particular thing? No. I I was going to
[1:08:04] ask you to talk a little bit about the
[1:08:06] um trellis at the upper level. Yeah,
[1:08:08] >> you provided a number of different
[1:08:10] images that what the trellis could feel
[1:08:13] like. Uh, but they're they're kind of
[1:08:15] pretty different. So, I was hoping you
[1:08:17] could zero in on what you visualize that
[1:08:20] trellis up above to be because you have
[1:08:23] some that are solid with glass, you have
[1:08:25] some with canopy, you have some with
[1:08:27] solid canopy as far as inspirational
[1:08:30] photos. So, what do you think that's
[1:08:31] looking like?
[1:08:32] >> Yeah. And there's nothing, you know, I
[1:08:33] don't think exactly like it, but it's
[1:08:35] kind of an open structure. there's no
[1:08:38] hard surface to the top to it. Um that
[1:08:42] the idea there is that there is a much
[1:08:45] like this image a very uh wavy something
[1:08:50] that moves in the breeze that looks
[1:08:52] light that can provide shade for that
[1:08:54] deck without having the
[1:08:57] uh mass I guess of a solid structure up
[1:09:00] there. Like those are all just images I
[1:09:03] think of an open structure. Granted,
[1:09:06] that is one that you know just has I
[1:09:08] think that the sun shade part of it is
[1:09:11] permanent, right? They just have lattice
[1:09:12] there, but we're not proposing lattice.
[1:09:15] I think the emphasis there is it's an
[1:09:17] open structure that you see and then
[1:09:19] that there is this canopy
[1:09:22] either fabric or uh that reed grass that
[1:09:26] um can be retractable that acts as a
[1:09:29] shade that you can manipulate to like on
[1:09:31] a cooler day or warmer day. um as
[1:09:35] opposed to having something that's more
[1:09:37] permanent up there. Um so,
[1:09:40] >> okay.
[1:09:40] >> Thank you.
[1:09:41] >> Yeah, that's the idea.
[1:09:45] >> Thanks. I will I'll give you a little
[1:09:47] personal experience. If as soon as the
[1:09:49] fire department has anything to do with
[1:09:51] any structure attached to your house
[1:09:53] that has any foliage on it, it will be
[1:09:56] taken away from you.
[1:09:58] >> So, just just so you know,
[1:10:01] >> there's no foliage on this structure.
[1:10:02] Like we're not we asked even more
[1:10:04] emphasis on why it needs to have its own
[1:10:06] beauty, right? You know,
[1:10:07] >> yeah. Any natural woven anything
[1:10:11] attached to your house,
[1:10:13] >> make it out of unnatural things.
[1:10:15] >> Going through that right now. But
[1:10:16] anyway, uh any more questions?
[1:10:21] >> No, I think that covers off mine.
[1:10:25] >> Who wants to go first?
[1:10:27] >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Forgot. Went out of
[1:10:29] order there. I told you I would. Uh, are
[1:10:32] there any comments from the audience or
[1:10:35] online?
[1:10:36] >> There's no one online.
[1:10:38] >> Any of you have anything to say over
[1:10:39] there?
[1:10:42] >> There's nobody out in the bushes.
[1:10:43] >> Want to vote for it?
[1:10:46] Um, okay. We'll bring it back to the
[1:10:48] ADR. Uh, Mark, would you like to go
[1:10:50] first?
[1:10:51] >> Sure. Yeah. So, we've seen this one
[1:10:52] before. Um, I think this is a a pretty
[1:10:54] substantial upgrade. I do appreciate I
[1:10:57] want to make sure you hear it loud and
[1:10:59] clear. the the pool was a bit of a
[1:11:01] unnerving approval last time. I know we
[1:11:03] went through many rounds of its location
[1:11:05] and its the neighbors down below and
[1:11:08] earthquakes, whatnot. So, I think this
[1:11:10] is a really nice um uh middle solve for
[1:11:14] that. And I think the terraces down at
[1:11:17] grade will actually be quite wonderful
[1:11:19] spaces. So, I I really appreciate that.
[1:11:21] Uh I think the the home upgrades are are
[1:11:25] fine. Uh the little Juliet balcony,
[1:11:28] great. Um, I think where I start to get
[1:11:30] a little concerned. I'll talk I'll start
[1:11:32] at the top. The the trellis I I think I
[1:11:35] would just go with something that was
[1:11:37] flat in lie of having the peak. Um, I
[1:11:40] don't think that I I see from a flat
[1:11:42] elevation standpoint that that starts to
[1:11:45] mirror the gable on the right hand side
[1:11:47] of the rear elevation, but let's admit
[1:11:50] it, you will never see that except when
[1:11:52] you're on the street below and that's
[1:11:53] pretty much impossible. So, I would I
[1:11:55] would prefer to see just a a horizontal
[1:11:58] uh trellis out there that you could just
[1:12:00] minimize the amount of volume that
[1:12:02] you've got on the hillside. So, that would be step one. Um I think along
[1:12:08] those same lines, I think the the the
[1:12:10] spiral stair and the fully enclosed mesh
[1:12:13] should while I I appreciate the sort of
[1:12:18] delicate nature of it might be too much
[1:12:21] mass when you look at this thing from
[1:12:22] below. I think when you look at mesh at
[1:12:24] an angle, you start to collapse that
[1:12:27] mesh into a solid form just by the
[1:12:29] nature of its weave and the the
[1:12:32] perspective of it. So, it's going to
[1:12:33] appear relatively massive. I think that spiral stair is, which I don't
[1:12:38] think is really the look that you might
[1:12:41] want to go for. So, I I don't have the
[1:12:42] problem with the mesh, but I think I
[1:12:44] might look at that in a little different
[1:12:46] way that it's a sculptural element on
[1:12:47] the edge of your building where maybe
[1:12:49] the mesh starts to follow the tread, the
[1:12:52] stringer up along with railings and just
[1:12:56] allows it to be a lighter element on the
[1:12:57] facade and on the hill.
[1:12:59] >> So, that would be I think it's a it
[1:13:01] would improve the overall massing from
[1:13:04] below, which is really the only place
[1:13:05] you see this thing from.
[1:13:08] Uh, third, I think on the parking deck,
[1:13:11] the reason why I asked you about that
[1:13:12] angle, the way I I envision, I want it
[1:13:15] to be as practical as possible, because
[1:13:17] that's really why you want to have it up
[1:13:18] there. I think you might want to make
[1:13:21] the 8 foot dimension a little bit longer
[1:13:24] uh at the top where the where the front
[1:13:26] of the car is. It's about eight and
[1:13:28] change now. And I think about pulling
[1:13:30] into that and then pulling back out,
[1:13:33] the front of the car is going to want to
[1:13:35] swing to the house, to the garage. And I
[1:13:38] think you need a little more leeway
[1:13:40] between the car and the existing garage
[1:13:42] to make that turn so that you're not
[1:13:45] hitting the front of your car into the
[1:13:47] garage. I just think it'll be more
[1:13:48] effective if it's got a little more give
[1:13:50] it a little more um
[1:13:53] >> air, a little more width.
[1:13:55] >> Okay.
[1:13:55] >> Because I think it'll just be more
[1:13:57] useful. You know what I'm I don't know
[1:13:58] if Alex wants to pull it back out, but
[1:14:00] as you pull back out and you're the rear
[1:14:02] of the car goes up the hill, the front
[1:14:05] swings to the to the garage facade, and
[1:14:08] I think you're just not going to have
[1:14:09] the room. It's going to be a pain in the
[1:14:11] ass to pull out,
[1:14:13] >> right? So, so I I would just give that
[1:14:16] another two feet at the head of it.
[1:14:18] Maybe maybe that angle isn't so steep,
[1:14:20] so your square footage is about the
[1:14:22] same, but I would just give your left
[1:14:23] hand side of that car a little more.
[1:14:25] >> Sure. I mean, I think they could I'm not
[1:14:27] sure what drove exactly the
[1:14:29] >> dimension at the end, but you know, if
[1:14:31] that increases a couple of feet or
[1:14:33] whatever,
[1:14:34] >> you're talking about like an 8 foot
[1:14:35] standard, you know, 8 by 20 is the car
[1:14:37] parking space, but given the road
[1:14:39] geometry, I think you want to make this
[1:14:41] as useful as possible.
[1:14:42] >> Um,
[1:14:43] >> I think that the uh everything up there
[1:14:45] is gravy, like, you know, so it's like
[1:14:49] this is luxury.
[1:14:51] >> It's like, but I hear what you're
[1:14:52] saying. I hear what you're saying. I do
[1:14:53] really want to say that from a from a
[1:14:55] lot of the projects we've seen around
[1:14:56] the town, having this extra space to
[1:14:59] pull off, whether it's for, you know,
[1:15:00] service personnel or whoever it might
[1:15:02] be, visitors, this is pretty valuable.
[1:15:04] So, I think I I could easily support
[1:15:06] that being the variance in the front.
[1:15:08] But that's that's a big uh plus in my
[1:15:11] mind.
[1:15:11] >> I think those are my only comments, but
[1:15:13] if I reserve the right to come back and
[1:15:14] say something.
[1:15:16] >> Um, okay. Mark did an excellent job. Uh,
[1:15:19] like kind of took all the comments I
[1:15:21] had. Um, I agree on this parking space
[1:15:25] because I was thinking turning into it,
[1:15:28] like making that left turn, your front
[1:15:30] end could end up kind of close to that
[1:15:32] angled wall. So, I also support, um, at
[1:15:35] the front of the car, making that
[1:15:37] portion a little bit wider. Um, I, you
[1:15:41] know, and then I think the grading down
[1:15:44] to the hot tub is a wonderful design.
[1:15:48] Um, working with the topography, I like
[1:15:50] that.
[1:15:51] Um,
[1:15:53] I agree. I I think it'd be worth
[1:15:56] revisiting the spiral staircase and just
[1:15:59] exploring the option of lightening it up
[1:16:01] instead of making that massive volume
[1:16:03] all the way down to the ground. Like, c
[1:16:06] could it be reduced um in scale by just
[1:16:09] having it go up along the stairs like
[1:16:12] railing height or whatever?
[1:16:14] Um,
[1:16:16] and I think the the last thing is coming
[1:16:19] back to the trellis that's on top of the
[1:16:21] roof deck. Um,
[1:16:24] I don't know if there's a lot of
[1:16:26] precedent for trelluses on like a
[1:16:29] threetory roof deck, but it is pretty
[1:16:31] tucked in there. So, I think just
[1:16:33] thinking about keeping that as light as
[1:16:35] possible. Um,
[1:16:38] I agree. I don't I'm not fully
[1:16:42] understanding the um angled roof for it.
[1:16:45] I think it could look
[1:16:48] It could make sense just with like a
[1:16:50] flat trellis. Um
[1:16:54] » I don't know. There's a cable there
[1:16:56] that's there now that sticks out on the
[1:16:58] dining room. Yep. But
[1:16:59] >> I could you pull up that elevation?
[1:17:05] » Yeah. There's a big gable on the right
[1:17:07] hand side there that kind of projects
[1:17:09] out the same as the uh
[1:17:12] >> as the trellis element.
[1:17:14] >> I would consider just looking at a flat
[1:17:17] design and lowering it to the
[1:17:21] >> like line the bottom of the roof line
[1:17:24] like where the gutter is. Spring height.
[1:17:27] >> Um
[1:17:28] >> Alex, if you go to
[1:17:30] a 1.7, I don't know if you have that,
[1:17:34] >> the side elevation, which would be the
[1:17:37] >> east elevation, you can start to see
[1:17:40] >> just as far as it would project out,
[1:17:42] right? Like so that's the that's the
[1:17:44] peak that he's describing, but this
[1:17:46] comes another
[1:17:48] >> 10 to 12 feet out out to that direction.
[1:17:51] So it's really the trellus is from here
[1:17:52] all the way out to there
[1:17:54] >> in relationship to the plan just to just
[1:17:56] to kind of keep
[1:17:58] >> what what's drawn.
[1:18:00] >> So
[1:18:01] >> can I is there possible to talk about
[1:18:03] that a little bit more?
[1:18:04] >> Sure.
[1:18:05] >> I don't what's the protocol? Do we need
[1:18:06] to wait or
[1:18:07] >> uh
[1:18:08] >> Well, it's really up to the chairman.
[1:18:11] >> What was the sheet again?
[1:18:12] >> Uh 1.7
[1:18:14] >> 1.7. Okay. Thank you.
[1:18:15] >> You know what? Since you're the last
[1:18:16] applicant, we can relax the rules a
[1:18:19] little bit. and I'm I'm the I'm the vice
[1:18:21] chair and I never know exactly how to
[1:18:23] run these meetings, but I would like to
[1:18:24] hear from you.
[1:18:25] >> Well, if it's assists the conversation,
[1:18:27] that's that's all. Um, so presently
[1:18:30] there's a deck up there now, as I think
[1:18:32] you all know. Um, it's
[1:18:35] difficult to use because it's either
[1:18:38] blazing hot in the summer, it's totally
[1:18:40] exposed, or in the winter because it's
[1:18:42] on the north side, it's not very
[1:18:44] comfortable because it doesn't get any
[1:18:46] sun. So, the purpose of the overhead
[1:18:49] element in this trellis is to provide
[1:18:52] the opportunity for Scott and his family
[1:18:54] to use it throughout the year. So they
[1:18:56] can on the cold days if it is sunny they
[1:18:58] can go out there but in the summertime
[1:19:01] when it's practically unusable they can
[1:19:04] cover it with a we were looking at a
[1:19:07] motorized fabric shade that they could
[1:19:09] retract so that that could come down on
[1:19:11] the sun you know for for a portion of it
[1:19:12] so that closer to the house they could
[1:19:14] eat outside or whatever in the um when
[1:19:16] the sun's out. I think it is so high up
[1:19:20] there that from below you're never going
[1:19:23] to perceive what that roof shape is on
[1:19:25] the trellis unless you're on the
[1:19:27] trellis. And given the cottage nature of
[1:19:30] the house, it's a 1914 former hunting
[1:19:32] cottage um it's it's a cabin and to put
[1:19:37] a flat roof element out there um even if
[1:19:40] it is open and trellis-like feels in
[1:19:43] congruous with the architecture. I think
[1:19:45] that the pitched form is really
[1:19:48] important for uh in uh reverence to the
[1:19:52] existing architecture. So I think you're
[1:19:54] really going to feel that when you're
[1:19:55] out on that deck, you're going to feel
[1:19:57] the experience of that pitched form.
[1:20:00] >> Thank you.
[1:20:01] >> Yeah,
[1:20:03] >> I'm going to say to my colleagues on
[1:20:05] relationship to that, so the spiral
[1:20:07] stair, the metal mesh, I wouldn't look
[1:20:09] at this as a as a hunting cottage at
[1:20:12] this point anymore. like as far as
[1:20:14] something that goes from a aesthetic
[1:20:16] standpoint, it's a metal trellis with
[1:20:18] metal railings all over the place. So, I
[1:20:21] don't think it's an I don't think it's a
[1:20:22] bad element. I just think it should be
[1:20:25] because you can see this from below,
[1:20:26] right? As the the home can be seen from
[1:20:28] down at the street below,
[1:20:30] >> right?
[1:20:30] >> That's that was my point.
[1:20:32] >> Yeah.
[1:20:33] >> So, and I agree if you look at the
[1:20:35] elevation from the side, that's the
[1:20:37] existing. Can you scroll to the
[1:20:39] proposed?
[1:20:40] >> Nope.
[1:20:44] 3.1 is the proposed. It's quite a ways
[1:20:46] down.
[1:20:46] >> 3.1. Okay.
[1:20:47] >> Sorry.
[1:20:57] » Yeah.
[1:20:58] >> Mhm. Right. So,
[1:21:03] um it so it goes all the way to the
[1:21:06] front edge. So, you actually will see
[1:21:07] that from the street. Right. if it was
[1:21:09] stepped back from that railing, maybe
[1:21:12] you wouldn't see it as much, but um so
[1:21:14] that is an element that is up for
[1:21:18] discussion. Um
[1:21:21] and it looks like it continues all the
[1:21:23] way back to the peak of the roof. Is
[1:21:26] that what I'm seeing?
[1:21:28] >> It's supported on the roof. Yeah. Mhm. I
[1:21:31] still stand with my comments of lowering
[1:21:33] it to the line of the gutter or just
[1:21:38] below uh and having it a flat element
[1:21:41] and or stepping it back away from that
[1:21:44] front edge.
[1:21:44] >> So if we were to step it back from the
[1:21:46] front edge, the gabled form wouldn't be
[1:21:49] as big of a concern.
[1:21:51] >> I think that's what she's saying. Yeah.
[1:21:54] >> So that's that's her comments. So So
[1:21:56] each of us weigh in. I was going to
[1:21:57] actually just put put out there it could
[1:21:59] be a gable I mean sorry a hip form too
[1:22:01] at that edge so that the horizontal line
[1:22:04] is it's red from below would remain in
[1:22:07] that there would be a hip shape much
[1:22:09] like over the kitchen form that would
[1:22:12] >> that would help
[1:22:13] >> go back
[1:22:15] I think to my colleagues once the
[1:22:18] material is put up on it right then it
[1:22:20] becomes more solid then it becomes a
[1:22:22] mass versus if as we're looking at it
[1:22:24] here it's transparent it wouldn't matter. To some degree, it doesn't
[1:22:28] matter very much because it's almost
[1:22:29] like story poles. But if you're starting
[1:22:31] to add lighting and a canvas or some
[1:22:35] bamboo piece or something, it's going to
[1:22:37] start to be pretty large and
[1:22:38] substantial.
[1:22:40] >> That's that was my comment. It it has to
[1:22:43] be seen in that light versus a super
[1:22:46] light and airy,
[1:22:48] >> you know, bunch of sticks.
[1:22:49] >> True. I will say I Well, are you have
[1:22:53] you finished your comments? Yeah. Sorry.
[1:22:55] Are are you do you have a
[1:22:57] >> um that's yeah that's all I have to
[1:22:59] share.
[1:22:59] >> So I will say I actually lived right
[1:23:03] above this house for 16 years at four
[1:23:06] Willow Hill Road and I know the heat on
[1:23:09] the deck. We did it one of those
[1:23:11] automatic awnings that comes in and out
[1:23:14] with the wind and the sun and
[1:23:15] everything. So I I know exactly what
[1:23:18] Scott is dealing with. And um I actually
[1:23:21] well just I'll give my comments about
[1:23:23] the whole project. I think the project's
[1:23:25] excellent. Uh my husband and I used to
[1:23:29] walk and try to figure out what we would
[1:23:31] do to fix that house. Like what how
[1:23:34] would we change that deck? And I always
[1:23:36] wanted him to buy it so I could fix it.
[1:23:39] And you guys are doing exactly what I
[1:23:41] wanted to do. Clean up that deck, push
[1:23:43] it back, just clean the whole thing up
[1:23:46] and make it uh just make it better in
[1:23:49] that way. So I I really appreciate that.
[1:23:52] And the parking up there is a nightmare.
[1:23:54] I would actually encourage you to do a
[1:23:57] twocar deck and just shroud it from
[1:23:59] below and get as much parking off the
[1:24:02] street as you possibly could because
[1:24:04] that canyon, nobody I mean, we walked up
[1:24:07] and down it, but nobody's hanging out in
[1:24:09] that canyon. And to that point, the only
[1:24:13] time you're looking up at their house is
[1:24:17] when you're driving up the road or when
[1:24:19] the residents are walking up the road
[1:24:21] when you you really have to crane your
[1:24:24] neck to look up there and see what's
[1:24:26] going on on their house. So, this this
[1:24:29] concept of
[1:24:31] that trellis bothering anyone is I I
[1:24:35] just can't see that. I do understand why
[1:24:38] you're doing the the gable on the
[1:24:40] trellis. I think it's a charming
[1:24:42] counterpoint to the other gable, but I
[1:24:45] do agree that we should pull that back.
[1:24:48] If you're going to do that shape, it
[1:24:49] should be half of the deck. And if
[1:24:51] you're going to do the whole deck, it
[1:24:53] should just be at the spring point. That those would be my comments. And I I
[1:24:58] love what you're doing um down below at
[1:25:01] the at grade. Another wait, one more
[1:25:04] reason to have two cars. If you're
[1:25:06] getting rid of that long driveway,
[1:25:08] that's that's where your guests are
[1:25:10] going to park. So, I would I would max
[1:25:12] that out, whatever the town would let
[1:25:14] you do. Um, and then the stairway, I the
[1:25:19] spiral stair, I also agree that's too
[1:25:22] big of a volume and I would like to see
[1:25:25] it just the railing just follow the
[1:25:27] spiral. So, those are my comments.
[1:25:33] So if we bring it back, we're basically
[1:25:37] 30 approving.
[1:25:39] We are two
[1:25:42] not approving of the um gabled trellis.
[1:25:46] Three of us.
[1:25:47] >> I could be convinced of the gabled
[1:25:48] trellis if it goes back another 10 to 15
[1:25:50] ft. 10 feet
[1:25:51] >> like to line with the other structure.
[1:25:54] >> Sure.
[1:25:54] >> You do the gabled trellis half of the
[1:25:56] deck, push it back or if you want to
[1:25:59] keep the trellis
[1:26:01] That first
[1:26:03] >> would you go back to the other?
[1:26:05] >> Yeah. Matching the
[1:26:06] >> Yeah. Where the first vertical is. I
[1:26:08] think that would be then you could keep
[1:26:10] the
[1:26:11] >> No. Where to the line of the existing
[1:26:13] building behind it?
[1:26:14] >> Yes.
[1:26:14] >> Yeah. Right there.
[1:26:15] >> Yes. That's what I'm referring.
[1:26:16] >> I could support that change.
[1:26:18] >> I could support that.
[1:26:19] >> Okay.
[1:26:19] >> Um could you support that?
[1:26:21] >> Sure.
[1:26:22] >> So, we're all in favor of keeping the
[1:26:24] gable trellis but cutting, you know,
[1:26:27] pushing it back. I think all three of us
[1:26:29] thought that you should not have that uh
[1:26:33] enclosed mesh spiral staircase. As cool
[1:26:37] as it could be, I think
[1:26:38] >> you guys are missing out. You're going
[1:26:39] to want to walk down that thing like
[1:26:41] what are you doing? It's still mesh.
[1:26:43] It's still spiral of you. I wanted to
[1:26:45] >> just not a big mess.
[1:26:47] >> We just We're just not digging it.
[1:26:50] >> All right. You're not invited to the
[1:26:51] party then.
[1:26:52] >> Okay. Well, I've been to many parties in
[1:26:54] that house. Um, I know Scott will invite
[1:26:57] me. Uh, but then
[1:27:00] >> and I would also go with you if on the
[1:27:03] parking pad.
[1:27:05] >> If it was two spaces, I think I could I
[1:27:08] could support that absolutely as well.
[1:27:10] >> Same.
[1:27:10] >> Yeah, it's a fire danger. It's that
[1:27:13] there people I teenage drivers up there.
[1:27:17] One of my kids almost drove off. I mean,
[1:27:19] it's we need to get cars off that road.
[1:27:22] So, uh, I would support that. I think
[1:27:24] we're all in favor of the project. It's
[1:27:26] just these little tweaks, right?
[1:27:28] >> Agreed.
[1:27:28] >> Is everybody Did you get the notes for
[1:27:31] that? Okay. Thank you guys.
[1:27:33] >> Sure.
[1:27:34] >> Staff question. So for um process,
[1:27:38] >> I mean, sorry, a process question. Do we
[1:27:41] need now to can we work out these
[1:27:43] changes directly with staff and get your
[1:27:45] approval or do we need to factor in
[1:27:47] another design review hearing before we
[1:27:50] can go to council?
[1:27:52] >> Okay.
[1:27:52] >> No, you'll do it with them. Okay, great.
[1:27:54] >> These are small enough where you'll and
[1:27:56] they sometimes will run it by us like is
[1:27:59] this okay?
[1:27:59] >> Okay, great. We're just trying to move
[1:28:01] it along. So, great.
[1:28:02] >> Yes.
[1:28:02] >> Beautiful. Thank you.
[1:28:03] >> All right. Thank you. Thank you guys.
[1:28:05] Whoops. All right. We are moving right
[1:28:08] along.
[1:28:11] >> Uh
[1:28:11] >> boom. Uh
[1:28:13] >> five information, discussion, and new
[1:28:15] agenda items.
[1:28:18] >> Thank you all very much.
[1:28:19] >> Thank you guys. Byebye.
[1:28:21] Um, so we just wanted to follow up on
[1:28:24] the
[1:28:25] setback exception or the pool exception,
[1:28:28] landscape features exception. If there
[1:28:31] was anything else that we didn't capture
[1:28:34] in that draft,
[1:28:36] um, let us know. I I think Alex sent the
[1:28:40] word file to the ADR.
[1:28:42] >> Yeah. Um, if it looks okay, then we'll
[1:28:45] go ahead and work on it and send it to
[1:28:47] the town attorney um and draft it so
[1:28:51] that it would be codified into the
[1:28:53] municipal code.
[1:28:55] >> Um,
[1:28:56] >> I had a question, but you you go first.
[1:28:58] you
[1:28:58] >> um just I was looking at this kind of
[1:29:01] last minute while right before I ran out
[1:29:04] to do my site visits so it's possible I
[1:29:06] missed it but um I thought that we had
[1:29:10] discussed there being like if a deck or
[1:29:13] patio space is in up to that 10 foot
[1:29:17] that new 10-ft setback um it was
[1:29:21] described as it couldn't exceed 18 in in
[1:29:24] height. Is that in that code anywhere?
[1:29:28] >> Can you open that? We do have
[1:29:31] >> Yeah. definition
[1:29:32] >> the
[1:29:34] not the definitions the um
[1:29:37] >> exception thing. Yeah.
[1:29:39] >> And what it applies to
[1:29:41] >> this one.
[1:29:42] >> Yeah.
[1:29:43] >> Let me share my screen.
[1:29:45] >> Maybe.
[1:29:46] >> I know we have decks on there, but I
[1:29:48] don't know if we said the height.
[1:29:49] >> There was the 4 foot limitation. But
[1:29:52] there's something about the deck. I
[1:29:54] think there's something on the deck
[1:29:55] that's
[1:29:55] >> pool decks not exceeding 18 in in
[1:29:59] height. Yeah. So, it can't be higher
[1:30:01] than 18 in.
[1:30:02] >> But, but any feature such as a fireplace
[1:30:06] or anything like that could go up to
[1:30:08] four feet.
[1:30:08] >> Four feet. Yeah, that's in there, too.
[1:30:10] >> Okay.
[1:30:10] >> I had a question on that. I I had a
[1:30:13] general question maybe for all of us.
[1:30:16] Um, in this situation where there's a
[1:30:18] sloping lot and someone wants to build a
[1:30:21] pool and the pool stays within that 10,
[1:30:25] you see meets that 10-ft setback but now
[1:30:28] has a retaining wall, you know, a sixoot
[1:30:31] retaining wall, let's say, or 7 foot,
[1:30:34] would that get administerial review or
[1:30:36] would that fall outside of that because
[1:30:38] it's a higher retaining like how does
[1:30:40] that work?
[1:30:41] >> Yes. So if it's a higher retaining wall,
[1:30:44] if it's six feet and it needs a
[1:30:46] variance, it would still they would
[1:30:48] still need to get design review.
[1:30:50] >> Okay. But it would be 6 foot would be
[1:30:52] the height that
[1:30:54] >> 48 in over 48 inches would trigger
[1:30:57] designer.
[1:30:57] >> 48 in.
[1:30:58] >> Yes. So 4T.
[1:31:00] Does that feel good with you guys? That
[1:31:02] feels good, right?
[1:31:02] >> Yeah. If it's over if you're starting to
[1:31:05] have a huge retaining wall that's in 10
[1:31:08] feet away from the set. That's why I was
[1:31:09] wondering like is someone going to be
[1:31:11] doing that and they're going to be like
[1:31:12] this this site that we just looked at if
[1:31:15] they had gone out and dropped a 6 to 8t
[1:31:17] wall we would have been like oh okay I
[1:31:20] guess we didn't really mean that
[1:31:22] >> so this 48 in that sounds pretty good
[1:31:25] okay
[1:31:26] >> that's the max
[1:31:27] >> and then I think we
[1:31:28] >> Hold on just a second if you if you
[1:31:30] imagine a 48 inch retaining wall for a
[1:31:34] pool and then a a railing on top
[1:31:36] >> railing on top of that right it starts
[1:31:38] to be 8 ft of stuff
[1:31:41] >> I think. Which aren't you not allowed to
[1:31:42] do that now?
[1:31:45] >> What part of our
[1:31:47] >> I don't know with our project we had
[1:31:49] some
[1:31:51] >> which part like the railing or the
[1:31:53] >> Yeah, it was like like if you have a
[1:31:56] pool deck and you're holding it back
[1:31:59] with a 48 inch retaining wall, you're
[1:32:01] going to have to have a 42 inch railing
[1:32:03] on top of that,
[1:32:04] >> right? And I think we couldn't do it as
[1:32:06] a concrete wall, we had to like open
[1:32:10] it up and have it be like a open
[1:32:13] structure underneath.
[1:32:16] >> Oh,
[1:32:16] >> because with the railing on top, then it
[1:32:19] would be too tall
[1:32:20] >> like
[1:32:21] >> so it was on peers in lie of
[1:32:24] >> Yeah. So, and like at my project, it's
[1:32:27] not fully
[1:32:29] >> enclosed underneath it.
[1:32:30] >> Well, no, it it is. Sorry, I'm
[1:32:32] describing it poorly. Um, the pool is
[1:32:35] partially above ground because the site
[1:32:37] slopes down and so we have a wall at the
[1:32:40] end of the decking that
[1:32:43] it was described to me that with the
[1:32:46] three foot wall there, we couldn't then
[1:32:49] add the railing
[1:32:51] on top. But maybe maybe that's not the
[1:32:54] case.
[1:32:55] >> I just I'm trying to trying to think
[1:32:56] through the scenarios that we've seen
[1:32:58] pools go in. It's nice in a flat space.
[1:33:00] You wouldn't be able to I think it's
[1:33:01] worse if it's a 10 foot setback and then
[1:33:04] someone's
[1:33:05] >> right
[1:33:05] >> going up to 80 something inches.
[1:33:08] >> That's what worried me a little bit.
[1:33:09] >> If you had say someone did a retaining
[1:33:11] wall that's 4T and then they wanted to
[1:33:14] do a railing that was solid,
[1:33:16] >> right?
[1:33:16] >> Then we would count that as part of the
[1:33:18] height, right? Like if they said, "Well,
[1:33:21] we just want to make that wall add
[1:33:24] another
[1:33:25] >> 42 in."
[1:33:26] >> Exactly.
[1:33:27] But it could be an open railing,
[1:33:30] >> right? But if it was an open railing, I
[1:33:32] don't think we would count it towards
[1:33:33] the height of the retaining wall.
[1:33:35] >> We wouldn't. But how do we feel about
[1:33:36] that
[1:33:38] >> as would we?
[1:33:40] >> Yeah. I'm I'm
[1:33:40] >> I'm just trying to think through those.
[1:33:42] >> I'm trying to think of I mean, you
[1:33:43] almost wonder if anything that is in the
[1:33:47] hillside lot
[1:33:49] doesn't get this.
[1:33:50] >> That's where I was wondering like in a
[1:33:52] hillside scenario, this doesn't this 10-
[1:33:55] foot thing doesn't apply. But I don't
[1:33:57] know. I haven't I haven't thought it
[1:33:59] through. I just am envisioning a lot of
[1:34:01] these projects that are that end up
[1:34:03] having pools that are partially
[1:34:06] >> on grade and then jut out
[1:34:08] >> that they we end up having these
[1:34:10] retaining wall conversations.
[1:34:11] >> Well, look at this one that just came in
[1:34:13] with their old pool design. They could
[1:34:15] have pushed that right up to the
[1:34:17] >> That's why it's it's literally the
[1:34:19] project that made me think like, boy,
[1:34:21] >> what happened?
[1:34:22] >> That's a weird road though because
[1:34:23] >> Yeah, I know. Our lot was such a funky
[1:34:27] whoever set that road up.
[1:34:29] >> Yeah, it's
[1:34:30] >> our lot had an ease like everybody else
[1:34:32] had an easement over our lot which was
[1:34:34] like a Z. So they all traveled over our
[1:34:37] lot. It was bizarre.
[1:34:38] >> But anyway, they even that that one, you
[1:34:43] know, take 10 feet from their property
[1:34:44] line and they're doing a a retaining
[1:34:46] wall for pool and then a railing on top
[1:34:49] of it and you're looking up at it.
[1:34:50] >> Yeah.
[1:34:51] >> Do you want us to look at that? Do you
[1:34:53] want us to look at think about it
[1:34:54] whether or not this is a a problem. Now
[1:34:58] another question I had was if something
[1:35:00] comes in and meets these requirements
[1:35:03] it's you know 10 feet four feet blah blah can you still say I think we
[1:35:08] need to go through design review or you
[1:35:10] can't because like if there are like
[1:35:14] whoa that's not what I thought this
[1:35:15] would turn out to be we should have
[1:35:17] design review look at this is that up to
[1:35:19] you guys but I think I read in this that
[1:35:21] you have the
[1:35:22] >> the say you have the jurisdiction to say
[1:35:25] you don't need to go through design
[1:35:26] review or you do need to
[1:35:27] I think so. I think there's um language
[1:35:31] there that would give Alex and I an out
[1:35:33] that they still need to go through
[1:35:35] design review. I guess it just makes it
[1:35:38] harder cuz it's subjective. Like what would be those things?
[1:35:41] >> I don't want that
[1:35:42] >> be real hard on them.
[1:35:43] >> I only wonder of the things we haven't
[1:35:45] thought about and something slides in
[1:35:47] and it's like oh they did make that a
[1:35:49] solid 4 foot and then another solid
[1:35:51] railing. Well, it's not really a
[1:35:52] retaining wall up there but now it's an
[1:35:54] 8ft wall. Like
[1:35:55] >> how about this? Does sorry guys how
[1:35:57] about this doesn't apply
[1:35:59] >> I think you still need to be on so that
[1:36:00] yeah
[1:36:01] >> how about that this doesn't apply to
[1:36:04] anything with a slope over x
[1:36:08] >> so the hillside lot is 30% so if it's
[1:36:10] 30% than your hillside lot this doesn't
[1:36:13] apply
[1:36:13] >> well it would trigger
[1:36:14] >> what about
[1:36:16] trigger designer view
[1:36:17] >> yeah trigger varian I mean actually that
[1:36:19] lot we saw today with the pool
[1:36:22] >> the lot might be hillside lot right but
[1:36:24] the pool was on a flat area,
[1:36:26] >> right?
[1:36:27] >> But did have a big retaining wall, but
[1:36:28] it exists. I don't know. I just brought
[1:36:30] it up. It may not be a thing. This may
[1:36:32] not as long as that 4 foot is the max.
[1:36:36] >> Mhm.
[1:36:37] >> Maybe it's okay.
[1:36:38] >> Look at the pool that was came through
[1:36:40] for the reissuing of the permit. You
[1:36:43] know, the the one um
[1:36:44] >> Yes. On upper
[1:36:45] >> 101. Yeah.
[1:36:46] >> Okay. So,
[1:36:48] >> they could actually have that pool a lot
[1:36:50] closer to the property lineup. And that
[1:36:52] could be I mean I you know
[1:36:55] >> the the neighbors should be very happy
[1:36:57] that they
[1:36:58] >> took what they got because now they
[1:37:00] could come back and push that way out to
[1:37:03] the road and then it would have you know
[1:37:05] retaining walls and
[1:37:07] >> Yeah.
[1:37:07] >> railings. So
[1:37:09] >> and that's a hillside line.
[1:37:10] >> Same for the ADU too.
[1:37:12] >> Yeah. We got to be careful about that.
[1:37:13] >> Yeah.
[1:37:15] >> So maybe just think about that. Another
[1:37:17] area I just thought we want to add um
[1:37:19] and I'll send you just a couple quick
[1:37:20] notes, but trellis wasn't I mean it's
[1:37:24] not specifically called out anywhere and
[1:37:26] oftentimes we see these sort of poolside
[1:37:28] trelluses and in
[1:37:32] uh yeah this one.
[1:37:36] Oh, so the pool just I'll pause the
[1:37:39] trails for a second in this one right
[1:37:40] here that you have up. So pool equipment
[1:37:43] is still required to be in the building
[1:37:45] setbacks.
[1:37:47] >> Yes,
[1:37:48] >> that's what this reads to me.
[1:37:50] >> That is what that reads, but um the town
[1:37:53] already has a minor exception,
[1:37:55] >> right? Yeah.
[1:37:56] >> So we probably want to align this to
[1:37:57] that, right? Exactly. Okay. So So pool
[1:38:00] equipment will be available to be within
[1:38:03] this landscape setback.
[1:38:05] >> The 10 ft.
[1:38:06] Yeah. Not with
[1:38:09] >> it has to be out. Yeah. Yeah. up to the
[1:38:11] 10 ft. Okay,
[1:38:12] >> great. Um,
[1:38:14] and yeah, I just thought there were a
[1:38:16] couple spots we could clarify trelluses
[1:38:18] as an example of a structure that does
[1:38:21] not meet the
[1:38:24] um available availability for this
[1:38:27] expedited review. Like I don't want to
[1:38:30] have trelluses in this zone unless
[1:38:34] because we have this 4ft height thing,
[1:38:36] right? So I think trelluses should be
[1:38:38] bring them to design review or something
[1:38:40] like that
[1:38:40] >> or stick to the old setbacks for
[1:38:43] trellis.
[1:38:43] >> Yes, that's right. Stick to the old
[1:38:45] setbacks or you have to come to design
[1:38:47] review.
[1:38:47] >> Yeah.
[1:38:49] >> Okay. These trelluses are getting big.
[1:38:50] >> They're getting big and they're getting
[1:38:51] >> a couple of my projects that are lit up.
[1:38:53] They've got
[1:38:54] >> that's you know this that other thing is
[1:38:56] going to be heat lamps and lit up and a
[1:38:58] canopy and it's going to be like
[1:39:00] >> they're really cool. I mean, you can buy
[1:39:01] them prefab and they're they they're all
[1:39:04] electrified and you know, it's basically
[1:39:06] a building.
[1:39:07] >> And that's why I don't want I want to
[1:39:08] explicitly like get those things out of
[1:39:10] that space cuz that that
[1:39:13] >> they put speakers in them.
[1:39:14] >> Yeah. They're really they can be like a
[1:39:16] little building.
[1:39:17] >> Yeah. I think that's all Yeah. So,
[1:39:19] trelluses are not part of the landscape
[1:39:22] features definition. So, something like
[1:39:23] that would come.
[1:39:25] >> Yeah. I thought there there are some uh
[1:39:28] let's see. Yeah. 18.12.1
[1:39:33] 94 I think.
[1:39:35] >> Oh yeah, we listed.
[1:39:38] >> So that means it would be considered a
[1:39:39] structure which
[1:39:41] >> right uh
[1:39:42] >> which they would have to meet the
[1:39:43] setbacks.
[1:39:44] >> Yeah.
[1:39:45] What I was afraid of is the idea
[1:39:48] of
[1:39:50] uh something. Oh, thank you.
[1:39:54] >> It's still small.
[1:39:56] >> Yeah. Uh anyway, there there was
[1:40:00] pretty pool spots. Yeah, I see. You mean
[1:40:04] decks, patios, fireplaces, seat, walls?
[1:40:07] Yeah. Okay.
[1:40:09] Are there um
[1:40:11] 1847020?
[1:40:15] So, go down a little further.
[1:40:19] >> Is it the definition stuff?
[1:40:20] >> I don't know. Keep going. It's 1847.
[1:40:23] >> No.
[1:40:23] >> Oh, that's a different uh Let me see.
[1:40:25] this next page. I think
[1:40:27] >> it's to
[1:40:29] let me see.
[1:40:30] >> Go to your next tab.
[1:40:32] >> Oh.
[1:40:33] >> yeah.
[1:40:34] >> I can send you these. It's just trellis
[1:40:35] stuff. It's not a It's not anything we
[1:40:37] need to hold everybody up.
[1:40:38] >> Um I I do have one more question. Um did I read it correctly that ADR is not
[1:40:47] it won't trigger design review um for
[1:40:50] pools based on the 50 cubic yards of
[1:40:54] grade and fill. So that's getting taken
[1:40:56] out.
[1:40:57] >> Yeah. Otherwise, so 50 cubic yards is
[1:40:59] like three by three.
[1:41:02] >> So every pool is more than, you know, if
[1:41:04] you dig 3 feet
[1:41:06] >> and then 3 ft down, that's 50 cubic
[1:41:09] yards. So
[1:41:10] >> Okay. Yeah,
[1:41:12] >> there's no pool that's less than that.
[1:41:15] >> Yeah, we have that here uh under
[1:41:18] designer view requirements.
[1:41:21] Um, but you can either send us what you
[1:41:24] have or we can come back. We can look at
[1:41:26] like what um, hillside pools have been
[1:41:30] approved and maybe see um, if folks are
[1:41:33] trying to do this thing where they're
[1:41:35] pushing it to the edges of the property
[1:41:37] line versus uh, keeping it close to the
[1:41:40] house.
[1:41:42] >> Yeah. It's interesting because the
[1:41:43] hillside lots have larger setbacks.
[1:41:46] >> Yes.
[1:41:46] Larger set the bigger lots larger
[1:41:48] setbacks. Yeah. It depends on the square
[1:41:50] footage of the house.
[1:41:51] >> Oh, that's when it triggers.
[1:41:53] >> Take I would take a look at it and what
[1:41:55] I mean I I would love to get this thing
[1:41:57] done so that we I know
[1:41:58] >> have,
[1:42:00] >> you know, so whatever helps get it done
[1:42:02] so you can bring it to council and get
[1:42:04] it approved would be great.
[1:42:06] >> I don't know what we
[1:42:07] >> do. We bring it back one more time or
[1:42:08] can you just run with
[1:42:10] >> Depends on what? Yeah, I mean
[1:42:12] >> can we is it are
[1:42:13] >> I don't need to see it again. So you
[1:42:14] guys could also um we can draft it and
[1:42:17] you could look at it
[1:42:19] >> just send us your email.
[1:42:20] >> I think that would be good so that we
[1:42:22] can give it to you and go to council.
[1:42:24] Maybe we just specifically call out
[1:42:25] Stephen and Mark who haven't been
[1:42:27] haven't looked at it in a
[1:42:27] >> long right.
[1:42:28] >> Yeah.
[1:42:30] >> Because other than these little nitpicky
[1:42:31] things, I think I was totally fine with
[1:42:33] it and think it's great. I think it's a benefit to the town.
[1:42:38] >> Okay.
[1:42:38] >> Thank you.
[1:42:39] >> Sounds good. So I move to adjourn the
[1:42:43] meeting.
[1:42:44] >> Second it.
[1:42:45] >> Thanks guys.