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Okay. Hello everyone. Um, I'm calling

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the regular meeting of the Rosstown

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Council Thursday, August 13, 2026

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to order.

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Town Manager Johnson, has the agenda

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been posted?

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>> Yes, Mayor, it has. And we uh staff is

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requesting a um slight change to the

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agenda. We'd like to move the third

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design review item which is number 17

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regarding 18 Sir Francis Drake. We'd

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like to move it uh to the um up to after

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9B.

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So it would be the third design review

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item in a row. Some things have been

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worked out so we think it can be go

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through pretty quickly.

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>> Great. Does anyone have any objection to

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that?

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>> Okay. Thank you. Disclosure of exparte

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communications on items where the town

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council acts in an adjudicatory or quas

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judicial capacity. Anything to disclose?

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>> Hi, Bill.

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>> Yes. Hi, Julie.

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>> Number four, open time for public

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expression. This is limited to three

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minutes per speaker on Wait, do I need

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to ask Bill where he is and why he's not

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here?

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>> No. Okay, great. Yes, I'm Should I make

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a statement? I'm in Seattle. That's why

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I'm not attending. I am at 441

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University Street, Seattle, which is a

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Fairmont Olympic Hotel. And there is I

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am in room 358. And there is no one here

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with me.

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>> Thank you, Belle. So, we'll be um

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calling um roll call for the votes. All

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right. Number four, open time for public

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expression. This is limited to three

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minutes per speaker on item items not on

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the agenda. Anyone in the chamber for

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public comment?

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Dear Mayor and M Mc McMillan and Ross

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town council members, first of all,

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please agendaize FOR's restitution to

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the town of Ross over its failed,

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flawed, and ultimately withdrawn ballot

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initiative.

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I am speaking tonight to address a grave

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concern regarding the integrity of our

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upcoming town elections. The friends of

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Ross Firehouse for originally

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established a as a ballot measure

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committee has transitioned into a

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political machine that is leveraging its

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resources to provide an unfair advantage

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to two specific candidates, Bob Herz and

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Paul Rosler. The toothpaste is out of

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the tube, so to speak. Forth has

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utilized its mass mailing list, a list

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compiled from residents who signed a

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petition or donated to save our local

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fire station to now and for the next 80

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plus days broadcasting endorsements from

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Mr. Herps and Mr. Rosler. This email

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list was not obtained through legitimate

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campaign purchase. It was harvested

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under the guise of a single issue civic

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initiative. As a donor myself, I can

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state clearly that my contribution was

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intended to support public safety, not

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for political engineering.

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Because Mr. Herp serves as president of

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FORF, he and Mr. Rossler have exclusive

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access to this database of engaged

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voters. Other candidates in the race do

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not have the same access, creating a

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fundamentally unlevel playing field.

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This with pardon me, creating a

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fundamentally unlevel playing field.

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This use of specialized voter data

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without the explicit consent of our

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citizens on the list and without parody

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for other candidates undermines the

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democratic process in Ross. I ask the

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council to consider the following points

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regarding the situation. First,

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potential campaign finance violations.

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The council should con inquire whether

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the mass communications constitute a

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coordinated campaign contribution to the

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Herps and Rosler campaigns rather than

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an independent expenditure.

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transparency and data acquisition. There

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must be a full public disclosure

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regarding how force email list was

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acquired and compiled and whether its

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use for candidate advocacy complies with

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the FPPC mass electronic and disclosure

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rules. Finally, restoration of fairness.

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We need to understand who authorized,

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wrote, and distributed these endorsement

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emails and whether these two candidates

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participated in those decisions as this

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changes the legal characterization of

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the organizational organization

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spending. The residents of Ross deserve

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an election this November that is

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transparent and fair. As Ross citizens,

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we did not provide our contact

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information to a ballot measure

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committee so they can be weaponized by

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force officers for their own political

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gain. I urge the council and town

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attorney to investigate these

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discrepancy to ensure our local

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governments remains unc accountable to

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the facts and its citizenry and

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therefore allow the other two candidates

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similar access to townwide email list.

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Michael Rosenbound, 14 Avenue.

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>> Thank you. Anyone else?

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>> Hello.

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» We'll see if I'm doing it right. Did I

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do good this time? I'll even introduce

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myself.

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I'm Diane Redden, 39 Willow Avenue. Good

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evening, everyone. And I just want to

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say that we had an age friendly meeting

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here

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this afternoon or this morning really

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and we talked about the intercom system

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and we're all for it and um you know

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here here and uh we have a couple things

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planned

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going forward for age friendly but what

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we're trying to do is get the word out

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to Kentfield

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and invite them into our age friendly

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group and If anybody has any brilliant

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ideas on how to do that, I would love to

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hear because the post office there is

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only is not open until 10:00 in the

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morning. So, and not very many people

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use that post office. It's not like

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ours. So, besides Woodland Market, I do

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not have

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any way to get a hold of those people.

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» Thank you. Anyone else in the chamber?

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Anyone online, Zach?

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>> No one online. Mayor,

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>> thank you. So, the mayor's report, um,

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we had a special council meeting on

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August 4 to first retain Gendzer

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Architects who prepared the citizens

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advisory committee's gorgeous conceptual

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concept presented April 29. Earlier this

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week, staff had a kickoff meeting with

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Gensler to begin the process of amending

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the facilities master plan and

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developing other information, including

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costs. The goal is to complete this by

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late October to allow for a general

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obligation bond election in 2027. We

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will be holding frequent council

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meetings to inform the public, gather

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public comment, and make decisions. At

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that meeting, we also accepted the

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withdrawal of the fourth initiative from

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the November 3rd, 2026 ballot that would

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have compelled the town to have an

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operating fire station within town

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limits with no associated funding.

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Finally, we approved and signed the

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ballot argument to renew the Ross Valley

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Paramedic Authority parcel tax, which

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will be called Measure U, starting in

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fiscal year 2728 at $107.50

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per year, adjusted up to $4 per year for

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four years.

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On July 27, there was a small vegetation

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fire in Mil Valley between Hillside

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Avenue and the Bleedale Ridge called the

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Hillside Fire. It was contained quickly

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at 1.5 acres due to fast emergency

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responses and effective vegetation

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management in the area. There were

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robust responses from 11 fire engines

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including from Southern Marin fire,

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Marin County Fire, two Tamilas Tamas

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fire crews and Calire along with mutual

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aid from Tibberon and Central Marin

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fire. Three battalion chiefs, four

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aircraft, one CalFire air attack plane

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from Santa Rosa serving as the air

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traffic controller, two CalFire air

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tankers, one from Santa Rosa and one

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from Mendescino, making one drop a fire

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retardant. The PG& funded firefighting

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Blackhawk helicopter stationed at

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Nosfield in Neado, arriving seven

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minutes after dispatch and making seven

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water drops sourced from Cord Madera and

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Phoenix Lake. a transport dozer carrying

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a bulldozer, two water tenders, each

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carrying 2,00 to 2500 gallons of water,

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Mil Valley Police, and one paramedic

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ambulance. The fire moved at a slow rate

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of spread through vegetation that had

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been treated by Southern Marin Fire and

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the Marin Wildfire Prevention Authority.

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Southern Marin Fire believes the

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firereak work and other preventative

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measures in the area over the past

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several years help limit the fire

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spread. And then I have a link to um a

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note from Southern Marine Fire about

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other preparation that they did back to

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school. It's hard to believe that summer

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is ending and school is already

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starting. Ross school begins next week

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on August 19 and Branson classes begin

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on August 24. Finally, live on the

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comments thanks to RPOA and the town

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will be next Friday, August 21st with

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Super Diamond, a Neil Diamond tribute

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band, Come Here, Sweet Caroline, and

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other classic Neil Diamond hits,

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council committee, and liaison reports.

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Anybody?

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>> Uh, just a report from the post office

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today. Um the most the main concern that

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I heard was um a concern about the

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number of vehicles uh in the street when

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there are building projects. And

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specifically there were two building

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projects in this one neighborhood um as

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the neighborhood of Ames and um a

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request that when we um uh issue permits

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that we pay attention to conditions for

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parking.

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I think that still doesn't help if you

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have three cement trucks at one time,

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but uh but we can do our best trying to

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make sure there's a parking and and

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construction plan.

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» Anybody else? Bill, do you have

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anything?

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>> No, I don't.

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>> Okay. Staff and community reports. Um

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Ross Property Owners Association.

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Okay,

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good evening. My name is Peter Solar. I

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live at uh 15 West Road here in Moss and

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I'm representing the RPOA tonight. This

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is just to give an update for the month.

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Uh first and foremost, want to thank you

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for the uh contribution of uh 25,500

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from the town. That's that's uh that's

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been that was submitted in July and it's

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already been cashed. We appreciate it.

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Obviously, uh as you mentioned though,

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we are uh uh hosting a live on the

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commons event on the 21st of August. The

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entertainment will be Super Diamond uh

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which is a Neil Diamond um cover band.

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There will be uh uh food trucks and

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activities for kids and also the

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obviously all the restaurants that are

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in the area benefit from this. So,

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they're super excited.

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We are uh we're hosting a a candidates

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night coming up. We're in the process of

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00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,640
trying to find a venue and a uh a Zoom

277
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,079
coordinator. This will happen sometime

278
00:11:54,079 --> 00:11:57,360
in October.

279
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,720
So, more more to come on that. Uh you

280
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:02,399
may notice when you go to the Ross prop

281
00:12:02,399 --> 00:12:05,040
uh post office, we have new lights and

282
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:07,760
um we think that's been a we get a lot

283
00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,519
of compliments so far and and we we're

284
00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:11,839
really appreciative of that. Uh we're

285
00:12:11,839 --> 00:12:14,480
looking at potentially uh either fixing

286
00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,639
up the lights in the back or potentially

287
00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:18,800
replacing those. So we're in the process

288
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:21,040
of of figuring out what's the best uh

289
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,360
solution there. We'll get back to you on

290
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:28,160
that. Uh there's also an age friendly um

291
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,120
uh tour of Bucks Institute on September

292
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,399
22nd coming up.

293
00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:36,880
And then um

294
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,200
the last couple things we did um uh Ross

295
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,440
Auxiliary just announced two new

296
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,560
co-presidents, Gabrielle Gantis and

297
00:12:46,560 --> 00:12:48,800
Taylor Porter.

298
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:50,480
And then the last thing is obviously the

299
00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,600
flowers that are on um near the common.

300
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,200
They're doing great and we're continuing

301
00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,560
to watering those and maintaining all

302
00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:57,920
that all the plants that are in that

303
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,480
area. So that's it. Thank you.

304
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,160
>> Great. Thank you. And I understand you

305
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:04,560
had a meeting Monday. I'm sorry I missed

306
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:07,120
it. I did not receive an email or or the

307
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:08,800
agenda, so I'm sorry I wasn't there.

308
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,160
>> There was a meeting today,

309
00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,000
>> Monday night, our POA. Yeah. Thank you.

310
00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:18,160
>> Um, town manager Johnson. Uh, thank you.

311
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:19,760
Um, good evening, Mayor and Council

312
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,519
members. I'd like to welcome back our

313
00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:23,440
recreation manager, Moren Borthwick,

314
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,839
from Family Leave. She is zooming into

315
00:13:25,839 --> 00:13:28,240
the meeting tonight from her home. And

316
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,160
I'd also like to give a big thank you to

317
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,200
our two other wreck employees who really

318
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,000
gave them gave it their all and um held

319
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,920
down the fort. So that would include um

320
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,959
recreation clerk u Mallerie Baron who um

321
00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:44,320
doubled her hours in order to assist the

322
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,000
recreation department in the town

323
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,839
continue to provide um excellent

324
00:13:47,839 --> 00:13:50,639
customer service to residents. And I'd

325
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:52,000
like to give a big thank you to Wyatt

326
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,720
Man who so abley served as interim wreck

327
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:57,600
manager since last April and through a

328
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,800
very busy um time of the year for

329
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,480
programming and events for the

330
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,399
department. Wyatt is here this evening

331
00:14:04,399 --> 00:14:06,399
and I hope we can all congratulate him

332
00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:15,670
and thank him for a job well done.

333
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:17,920
Uh, in other staffing news, yes, the

334
00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:20,720
dreaded day arrived and our esteemed

335
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:22,800
public works director, Rich Simonich,

336
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,480
left us for retirement. On day 10, we

337
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,519
are surviving, but definitely feel his

338
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:32,639
absence. Thankfully, our civic center

339
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,040
project manager, David Kelly, agreed to

340
00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,600
fill in as interim director, and we were

341
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,920
able to hire a knowledgeable consultant,

342
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,199
John Mo, to handle the town engineer

343
00:14:43,199 --> 00:14:46,240
functions, that portion of um the

344
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:48,880
director position. This week, our town

345
00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,199
clerk, Zach, and I started a robust

346
00:14:51,199 --> 00:14:54,079
recruitment process with a professional

347
00:14:54,079 --> 00:14:56,880
HR firm, which will hopefully, fingers

348
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,600
crossed, result in interviews in mid

349
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,680
October. So, we are going to have this

350
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,160
interim period where we're just all

351
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,079
doing our best to work together as a

352
00:15:06,079 --> 00:15:10,320
team to address resident um issues and

353
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,279
also prepare for what is uh projected to

354
00:15:13,279 --> 00:15:16,560
be a very wet winter. Um, and that also

355
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,959
includes Anthony and Zach, our other

356
00:15:18,959 --> 00:15:21,920
Zach in the um public works department

357
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,000
to prepare for the the rainy season.

358
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,000
Uh, from the police department, as the

359
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,600
mayor mentioned, RAW school starts on

360
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,079
Tuesday with Branson School soon after,

361
00:15:32,079 --> 00:15:33,440
and we would like to remind the

362
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,360
community to remember to share the road

363
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,720
with bicyclists and children walking to

364
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:41,279
school. Ross PD officers will be

365
00:15:41,279 --> 00:15:43,680
enforcing traffic laws. Please plan

366
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:46,399
ahead and give yourself plenty of time.

367
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,639
If your child rides a bike to school,

368
00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:50,720
please have a conversation about

369
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,759
following the rules of the road.

370
00:15:53,759 --> 00:15:56,160
The filing period closed yesterday for

371
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,320
residents wishing to run for election to

372
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,040
the town council. There are four four

373
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,600
candidates.

374
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,800
The um advisory design review um group

375
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,600
meeting this month will be held on

376
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,040
Tuesday, August 25th at 6 p.m. in the

377
00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,199
council chambers. That's a change of

378
00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:17,600
their usual time and it's to allow for a

379
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,399
quorum so they can meet. Um, and

380
00:16:20,399 --> 00:16:23,839
speaking of quorum, um, due to a, uh, we

381
00:16:23,839 --> 00:16:26,079
will we will have an absence on a

382
00:16:26,079 --> 00:16:29,360
vacancy on the ADR and, uh, the Ross

383
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,680
Council is seeking a volunteer to fill

384
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,959
one opening on ADR for a three-year

385
00:16:34,959 --> 00:16:38,160
term. Serving on the ADR is a unique

386
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,720
experience to make a positive

387
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,959
contribution to the design and

388
00:16:42,959 --> 00:16:45,279
appearance of the community and help

389
00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:48,000
neighbors come together on development

390
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,639
issues. The application is available

391
00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:53,600
online and the due date to apply has

392
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,480
been extended to August 24th. We would

393
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,040
like to thank the current ADR members

394
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,600
that have worked to make the ADR group a

395
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,480
helpful forum for providing staff

396
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:06,640
applicants and the town council with

397
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,959
feedback during the development review

398
00:17:08,959 --> 00:17:11,280
process. Mark Krishnet, the chair, he's

399
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:14,240
the outgoing member. Um Joey Buckingham,

400
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,360
Mark Fritz, Steven Sutro, and Laura Der.

401
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:19,280
We give them big thanks for all their

402
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,679
work they do throughout the year. And um

403
00:17:21,679 --> 00:17:23,439
just finally,

404
00:17:23,439 --> 00:17:25,360
I'm going to be going uh back and forth

405
00:17:25,360 --> 00:17:27,600
between my office and zooming in. I have

406
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,600
a a cough and I don't want to be any

407
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,679
more distracting to the council. So

408
00:17:31,679 --> 00:17:34,160
that's what Don't be alarmed. I'll be

409
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,720
coming back in. Um and that's it. Thank

410
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:40,080
you for the opportunity to report.

411
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,120
>> Thank you. Consent agenda. Does any

412
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:45,360
member of the public wish to remove any

413
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,320
item from the consent agenda?

414
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,320
Anybody online?

415
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,360
>> No one online. Mayor,

416
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:53,440
>> any council member want to remove

417
00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:55,679
something? Okay. Could we please have a

418
00:17:55,679 --> 00:17:58,799
motion to approve the consent agenda?

419
00:17:58,799 --> 00:18:00,799
>> I'll move that we con uh approve the

420
00:18:00,799 --> 00:18:02,160
consent calendar.

421
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:05,830
>> Second.

422
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,760
» Motion by council member Dalling. Second

423
00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,679
by Mayor Prom Robbins.

424
00:18:09,679 --> 00:18:10,000
>> Yes.

425
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,120
>> Mayor McMillan.

426
00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,039
>> Yes. Mayor Potm Robbins,

427
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:13,760
>> yes.

428
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,000
>> Council member Kercher,

429
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:16,559
>> yes.

430
00:18:16,559 --> 00:18:17,679
>> Council member Dalling,

431
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:18,000
>> yes.

432
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,200
>> Council member Salter,

433
00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:19,600
>> yes.

434
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,320
>> Motion passes unanimously.

435
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,080
>> Thank you.

436
00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:26,960
We are moving on to the public hearing

437
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:31,039
on planning projects 92 Glenwood Avenue,

438
00:18:31,039 --> 00:18:33,360
design review, nonconformity permit, and

439
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,280
demolition permit, and town council

440
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,919
consideration of adoption of resolution

441
00:18:37,919 --> 00:18:40,960
number 2645 approving the project.

442
00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,559
subject to conditions. Roberta,

443
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:45,200
>> Alex.

444
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,440
>> Good evening, mayor and council members.

445
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,919
Uh, tonight the applicant at 92 Glenwood

446
00:18:49,919 --> 00:18:51,840
Avenue is requesting town council's

447
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,000
consideration for designer view and a

448
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,160
demolition permit. Uh, the project is

449
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,760
proposing to replace the existing

450
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:00,559
stuckle with cedar shingles throughout

451
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:02,720
the exterior of the house. Uh during the

452
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,720
meeting at the uh at the ADR meeting

453
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,679
July 21st, all the 80 members were in

454
00:19:07,679 --> 00:19:09,840
support of the project and staff request

455
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:11,679
that the town council consider adopting

456
00:19:11,679 --> 00:19:14,559
resolution 2645 approving design review

457
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:18,789
and a demolition permits

458
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:21,120
» questions from council.

459
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:23,039
>> No.

460
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:34,070
>> Um went away. Bill, are you still there?

461
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,520
He's still online. Mayor,

462
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,080
>> he is.

463
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,520
>> Yeah, his camera's just off.

464
00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:40,720
>> Okay, great. All right. Um,

465
00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,360
does anyone um from the public wish to

466
00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,400
make a statement?

467
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,640
Anyone online?

468
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,160
Does the applicant wish to make any

469
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,190
statement?

470
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,400
Okay, then we'll bring it back for um

471
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:58,320
discussion and a motion, please.

472
00:19:58,320 --> 00:19:59,840
>> So, I just add a comment. We got a

473
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:03,280
letter about the shingles. Um but the um

474
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,120
the owner showed me the shingles. They

475
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,440
have they're they're CalFire approved

476
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,760
and they have some special backing. So I

477
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:11,280
think that it's fine to go ahead with

478
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:12,000
this.

479
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,360
>> Yeah. Robera, did you want to add

480
00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:14,640
anything to that?

481
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,440
>> That's correct. It's CalFire and WOOI

482
00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,320
approved. So in terms of if you see the

483
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,160
shingles, what you're really want to

484
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,120
look at is the assembly. Um there should

485
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,679
be other

486
00:20:27,679 --> 00:20:32,000
uh fire resistant backings

487
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,559
connected to that siding. That way if

488
00:20:34,559 --> 00:20:36,480
the shingles burn off there is something

489
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:40,950
that stops burning.

490
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:44,799
» Great. Um any further discussion?

491
00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,400
>> I move we approve a resolution

492
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,039
uh 2645.

493
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:53,600
>> A second.

494
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:55,840
Motion by Mayor Prom Robbins, second by

495
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,840
council member Dalling. Mayor McMillan,

496
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:58,240
>> yes.

497
00:20:58,240 --> 00:20:59,440
>> Mayor Prom Robbins,

498
00:20:59,440 --> 00:20:59,919
>> yes.

499
00:20:59,919 --> 00:21:01,520
>> Council member Kercher,

500
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:02,159
>> yes.

501
00:21:02,159 --> 00:21:03,280
>> Council member Dalling,

502
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:03,679
>> yes.

503
00:21:03,679 --> 00:21:04,880
>> Council member Salter,

504
00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:05,280
>> yes.

505
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,480
>> Motion passes unanimously.

506
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,799
>> And we're moving on to 98 Laurel Grove

507
00:21:10,799 --> 00:21:12,880
Avenue. Design review and nonconformity

508
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:14,880
permit and town council consideration of

509
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,760
adoption of resolution number 2646

510
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:20,080
approving the project subject to

511
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,240
conditions. Uh good evening, mayor,

512
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,760
council members. Uh tonight, the

513
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,400
applicant at 98 L Grove is requesting

514
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,320
town council's consideration for design

515
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,120
review and a nonconformity permit. The

516
00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:33,120
project is proposing to expand the

517
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,120
existing guest house by 396 ft. Uh

518
00:21:37,120 --> 00:21:38,880
increasing the total floor area for that

519
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:45,280
guest house from 38 385 ft to 781 ft.

520
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,440
The project also includes a new trellis,

521
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,640
a patio, and retaining walls. At the ADR

522
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,840
meeting on July 21st, all the AD ADR

523
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,919
members were in support of the project

524
00:21:55,919 --> 00:21:58,480
since the project is not exacerbating

525
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,880
the existing nonconformity.

526
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:02,480
Staff request that the town council will

527
00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,039
consider adopting resolution 2646

528
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:06,720
approving design review and a

529
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,840
non-conformity permit. Thank you.

530
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,559
>> Council member questions?

531
00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:14,080
No.

532
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,559
Um, any comment from the public on this

533
00:22:16,559 --> 00:22:19,520
item?

534
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,520
Um, does the applicant wish to make a

535
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,640
statement? You certainly don't have to.

536
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,799
>> Thank you.

537
00:22:26,799 --> 00:22:29,600
We like that.

538
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,159
Okay. Um, we'll bring it back for any

539
00:22:32,159 --> 00:22:34,960
further discussion or a motion.

540
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,360
>> I move that we adopt resolution number

541
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,280
2646.

542
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,840
Second.

543
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,760
>> Motion by council member Ding. Second by

544
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,320
Mayor Prom Robbins. Mayor McMillan.

545
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:46,720
>> Yes.

546
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:48,000
>> Mayor Prom Robbins.

547
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:48,480
>> Yes.

548
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:50,000
>> Council member Kercher.

549
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:50,559
>> Yes.

550
00:22:50,559 --> 00:22:51,679
>> Council member Dowling.

551
00:22:51,679 --> 00:22:52,080
>> Yes.

552
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,280
>> Council member Salter.

553
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:53,679
>> Yes.

554
00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:56,880
>> Motion passes unanimously.

555
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,480
>> Thank you. Now we're moving on to 17A,

556
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,320
which we're taking a little bit out of

557
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:06,630
order. um

558
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,840
which is 18 Sir Francis Drake Boulevard

559
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,320
design review nonconformity permit

560
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,720
demolition permit and a variance and

561
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,799
town council consideration of adoption

562
00:23:16,799 --> 00:23:20,240
of resolution number 2644 approving the

563
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:23,360
project subject to conditions

564
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:26,400
mayor council members uh tonight the uh

565
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,000
applicant and homeowner at 18 sir

566
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,159
Francis Drake is requesting town

567
00:23:30,159 --> 00:23:32,000
council's consideration for designer

568
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,880
view demolition permit, a nonconformity

569
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,200
permit, and a variance. The project is

570
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:38,799
proposing to renovate the existing

571
00:23:38,799 --> 00:23:40,640
residence by replacing the existing

572
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,120
sighting with horizontal cedar sighting

573
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,240
with also stone veneer base. Additional

574
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,240
site improvements include reconfiguring

575
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,240
and reduction of a swimming pool, the

576
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,559
relocation of a equipment, construction

577
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:54,640
of a new patio, and a new gravel

578
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,440
driveway. Uh at the ADR meeting on June

579
00:23:57,440 --> 00:23:59,679
16th, the ADR members were in support of

580
00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:02,240
the project with minor modifications. Uh

581
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,320
the members recommended that the patio

582
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,320
be located 5 ft from the side property

583
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,440
line uh to use dark a darker base

584
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,840
material and also more of a natural

585
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,400
color palette. The applicant revised the

586
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,559
plans accordingly and also the members

587
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:18,960
also supported the pool equipment's lo

588
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,200
relocation because of the proximity to

589
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,840
Sir Francis Drake. Uh staff request that

590
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,279
the town council consider adopting

591
00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,600
resolution 2644 approving designer

592
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,679
review a non-conformity permit

593
00:24:29,679 --> 00:24:33,120
demolition permit and a variance.

594
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,320
>> Questions council members?

595
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:43,430
>> Um any public comment on this item?

596
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,200
» My name is Mark Converse. I'm a neighbor

597
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,640
at 18 franch. I just want to clarify I

598
00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,279
talked to Alex that was that was the

599
00:24:51,279 --> 00:24:53,279
item on the the design review was a

600
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:55,520
three-unit building and that's been

601
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,880
rescended to a two-un building. I just

602
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,320
want to confirm that's the case for

603
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,320
public record, right?

604
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,279
>> Uh that's correct.

605
00:25:01,279 --> 00:25:03,760
>> Okay. And then the the other

606
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:05,120
improvements like there's going to be

607
00:25:05,120 --> 00:25:07,679
other stuff done as we discussed that'll

608
00:25:07,679 --> 00:25:10,240
be further permits, right? For instance,

609
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:11,840
excavation permits and those kind of

610
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,320
things, right? Because there's some

611
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,440
other like for instance there's a

612
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,760
there's not not been a geotech survey

613
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:18,799
done and that would be part of the

614
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:20,080
building permits. That's is that

615
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:21,760
correct?

616
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,799
>> That would be submitted during the

617
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:23,360
building permits.

618
00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:25,120
>> During the Okay. All right. That's it.

619
00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:26,880
We support the project. It's it's well

620
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:27,520
overdue.

621
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:28,720
>> Thank you. Do you want to state your

622
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:29,760
name?

623
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:32,559
>> Um Mark Converse and I live at 16. Thank

624
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:34,880
you very much. Next door. Thank you. Any

625
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,279
other public comment?

626
00:25:37,279 --> 00:25:39,760
Um does the applicant wish to make a

627
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,710
statement? Are they online?

628
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,039
Ross. It's Ross McKenna.

629
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:48,720
>> Yes. Um,

630
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:49,279
>> you don't have

631
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:52,400
>> Ross or Studio J.

632
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:58,070
I love both of you to talk.

633
00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,080
» Hi. Can anyone hear me? This is Richard

634
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,760
from Studio J Architecture.

635
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:03,279
>> Yeah. Hi, we hear you.

636
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:06,080
>> Okay, great. Hi. Um, nothing really to

637
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,320
add other than uh confirming the

638
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,840
conditions of approval for the flat roof

639
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,559
um for the neighbor on the other side.

640
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:18,880
Um, otherwise I think if everyone's

641
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,880
uh approves the project, we'd like to

642
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:25,120
move forward and uh that's all.

643
00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:27,679
>> Thank you.

644
00:26:27,679 --> 00:26:30,720
>> Okay. Well, we'll move it back to

645
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,240
council for any discussion or a motion.

646
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,400
Well, I move that we adopt resolution

647
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,390
number 2644.

648
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,799
Second

649
00:26:42,799 --> 00:26:44,559
>> motion by council member Dowling, second

650
00:26:44,559 --> 00:26:46,799
by Mayor Prom Robbins. Mayor McMillan,

651
00:26:46,799 --> 00:26:47,279
>> yes.

652
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:48,640
>> Mayor Prom Robbins,

653
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:49,200
>> yes.

654
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,720
>> Council member Kercher,

655
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:51,279
>> yes.

656
00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:52,480
>> Council member Dowling,

657
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:52,960
>> yes.

658
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,320
>> Council member Salter,

659
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:54,960
>> yes.

660
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,360
>> Motion passes unanimously.

661
00:26:57,360 --> 00:26:59,840
>> Thank you. Now we're moving to the

662
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:09,269
administrative agenda item number 10.

663
00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,440
town council to receive a presentation

664
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,799
from team civex regarding the planning,

665
00:27:14,799 --> 00:27:17,440
evaluation, public information, and

666
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:19,919
community engagement process associated

667
00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:22,400
with potential local revenue measures

668
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,159
and discuss how these services may

669
00:27:24,159 --> 00:27:26,000
assist the town as it continues

670
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,880
evaluating potential financing options

671
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,880
for implementation of the Ross Civic

672
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,279
Center facilities master plan and

673
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:37,039
related municipal capital improvements.

674
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:39,120
Christa,

675
00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:41,679
>> thank you. Thank you, mayor. Um the item

676
00:27:41,679 --> 00:27:44,320
before you this evening is um uh we are

677
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,279
continuing our council education series

678
00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:49,120
related to the town's civic center

679
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:52,000
redevelopment project. You may recall

680
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,399
that on April 2nd, the council received

681
00:27:54,399 --> 00:27:57,039
a presentation from Fieldman Rolap, the

682
00:27:57,039 --> 00:27:59,760
town's municipal financial adviser,

683
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,279
regarding the town's financial

684
00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:04,080
condition, budget outlook, and capacity

685
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,039
to support debt service associated with

686
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:08,880
implementation of the facility's master

687
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,919
plan. And then on July 9th, the council

688
00:28:11,919 --> 00:28:14,240
received a presentation regarding

689
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,080
alternative project delivery and

690
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:18,159
procurement methods for implementation

691
00:28:18,159 --> 00:28:20,559
of the Ross Civic Center project and

692
00:28:20,559 --> 00:28:22,480
also discussed the town's priorities

693
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,360
regarding project delivery, procurement,

694
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,279
schedule, cost certainty, and risk

695
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,120
allocation.

696
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:31,200
In the third part of this educational

697
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,240
series, Joy Kumer

698
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,919
partner with a firm called Team Civics

699
00:28:37,919 --> 00:28:39,760
will give the council a presentation

700
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,760
providing an initial overview of the

701
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,720
feasibility and process for a potential

702
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,960
local funding measure, including the

703
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,320
available election timing, key strategic

704
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,720
considerations, and recommended next

705
00:28:52,720 --> 00:29:07,750
steps and decision points. Thank you.

706
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,679
Oh, there we go. I'm so sorry.

707
00:29:09,679 --> 00:29:11,440
>> Oh, excuse me, Joy. Let's just give us

708
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:12,880
Could you just give us a second to make

709
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:13,919
sure we get your

710
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:20,549
>> Oh, yes.

711
00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:23,200
» No, no.

712
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,750
>> It'll take a moment.

713
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:59,430
Pardon me.

714
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,799
The challenge is always getting the Zoom

715
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:04,799
to

716
00:30:04,799 --> 00:30:06,880
combine with the PowerPoint. So, thank

717
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:16,549
you for your patience.

718
00:30:16,559 --> 00:30:20,630
Okay.

719
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,760
We'll try this again.

720
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,880
There we go.

721
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:28,799
Uh again, Joykum. I'm one of the

722
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:32,000
partners at Team Civics. We are a

723
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,320
communication and election strategy

724
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,909
firm.

725
00:30:37,919 --> 00:30:41,279
» Oh, thank you. Thank you. Oh, perfect.

726
00:30:41,279 --> 00:30:45,520
Uh and we now have a presentation. Um, I

727
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,679
work with cities, school districts,

728
00:30:47,679 --> 00:30:50,559
counties, um, and other public entities

729
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:52,880
as they review the process to place a

730
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:54,960
potential measure on the ballot. Um, we

731
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,200
look at exploring feasibility. So,

732
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,520
tonight I'm just here to talk a little

733
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,159
bit about uh, past election trends in

734
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:04,240
the town of Ross, as well as looking

735
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:06,320
forward at potential opportunities that

736
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,399
might be available and some things to be

737
00:31:08,399 --> 00:31:13,190
thinking about as you consider that.

738
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:14,480
work.

739
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:16,000
>> So, just a little bit about the

740
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,159
facilities master planning timing. Uh,

741
00:31:18,159 --> 00:31:19,919
we know that you're in the process of

742
00:31:19,919 --> 00:31:22,240
completing the facilities master plan

743
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,960
amendment. Uh, looking at that project

744
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,120
scope and the costs that are being uh,

745
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,039
determined and associated with that, I

746
00:31:29,039 --> 00:31:30,480
had an opportunity to take a look at

747
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,279
some of the previous materials. Um,

748
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:35,360
potential funding options that are

749
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,279
available to uh, help with that project.

750
00:31:39,279 --> 00:31:41,519
And then tonight again I'm just here to

751
00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:43,600
talk about the planning and process and

752
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,000
election timing.

753
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,240
So a little bit about our firm. Uh we

754
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,000
are one of the leaders in helping

755
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,799
prepare and uh help cities pass

756
00:31:52,799 --> 00:31:56,399
potential um tax revenue measures. We

757
00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:00,240
have an over 90% success rate um on all

758
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,760
sorts of measures all around the state

759
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:03,840
of California. We're often known as good

760
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,559
team players. uh we sort of work well

761
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,799
with the other existing people on your

762
00:32:08,799 --> 00:32:11,760
team as you're moving forward. Um uh we

763
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,000
work with Fieldman quite often in cities

764
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,000
around the state as they're doing the

765
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,880
financial advisor part of it and we're

766
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,360
helping with the communications. Um our

767
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:23,840
emphasis is really on customer service

768
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,640
and responsiveness. I come to meetings.

769
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:28,960
I actually live in Oakland so it's not a

770
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,760
bad drive for me. Uh we really try to

771
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,679
pay attention. I know how ballot

772
00:32:33,679 --> 00:32:35,440
measures work. I know about election

773
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,919
timing, but you know your community. So,

774
00:32:37,919 --> 00:32:40,159
it is always a team effort and that's

775
00:32:40,159 --> 00:32:42,480
important that we're working together.

776
00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,880
And of course, we always have individual

777
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:46,720
attention from each of our partners. So,

778
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,399
I would always be the point person

779
00:32:48,399 --> 00:32:53,029
working with your town.

780
00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:56,640
So, I have many slides on your past

781
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:57,840
elections

782
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,000
>> and they're just looking at the data in

783
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,120
different ways so that we can glean some

784
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,960
information about how elections have

785
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,360
gone in the past. This is just meant to

786
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,440
be a big picture historical. Um, your

787
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,760
general overall passage rate for items

788
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,200
in the town are at about 78%.

789
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,200
uh in the general elections. So those

790
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,080
are your November elections in even

791
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,880
numbered years that passage rate uh is

792
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,600
at 100%. Primary elections 75%.

793
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,240
You can see five of your um elections

794
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,240
were in November, two in June, two in

795
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,720
March. They've most frequently been on

796
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,960
the November elections.

797
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:40,640
That's why we see such a higher

798
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,080
percentage of passage rate. Um,

799
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,960
overall, the other thing to consider in

800
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,399
each of these different types of

801
00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:51,200
elections is your turnout. So, you'll

802
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:53,120
notice the first line down, we start

803
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,919
talking about turnout in those primary

804
00:33:55,919 --> 00:33:58,240
elections. So, those are typically March

805
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,919
or June elections. Turnout is lower. And

806
00:34:01,919 --> 00:34:03,519
this is a trend we see all across

807
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:05,840
California. Uh, voters turn out in lower

808
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,960
numbers in primary elections. In your

809
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,599
general election turnout, uh we see it

810
00:34:11,599 --> 00:34:16,159
around 76%. Again, that's an average. Um

811
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,040
your next two bars down, we're just

812
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,839
talking about passage rate. So again,

813
00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:24,240
kind of looking at general picture over

814
00:34:24,240 --> 00:34:27,359
all the times. Uh in the 2022 primary,

815
00:34:27,359 --> 00:34:30,399
there was a high passage rate of 87%.

816
00:34:30,399 --> 00:34:32,720
Uh the lowest percent of a yes vote was

817
00:34:32,720 --> 00:34:36,639
at 60% in the 2020 primary. That of

818
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,040
course was the beginning of uh the COVID

819
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,599
pandemic. Lots of ballot measures

820
00:34:41,599 --> 00:34:44,800
struggled in that election. We saw um

821
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,399
you know people just very uncertain

822
00:34:46,399 --> 00:34:48,720
about the future. So it's not surprising

823
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:50,320
that that would be the lowest yes

824
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:51,440
percent turnout.

825
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,960
>> Excuse me. Was that one of our ballot

826
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,200
measures that had a 60% yes?

827
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,240
>> Yes. Correct.

828
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:57,119
>> Which one was that?

829
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:00,160
>> I'll be going through these next. Yes.

830
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,560
So, um, and again, just thinking about

831
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,800
that being the beginning of COVID, it's

832
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,359
not surprising to see a lower yes

833
00:35:07,359 --> 00:35:09,359
percent.

834
00:35:09,359 --> 00:35:12,160
So, here are all of those elections as I

835
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,440
promised. Uh, it was, uh, probably, you

836
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,000
can see that one was measure F. It was a

837
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:20,079
student enrollment increase. It did

838
00:35:20,079 --> 00:35:22,240
actually pass. It wasn't requiring a

839
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,960
twothirds vote. Um, but it was the

840
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,839
lowest yes percentage. Again, not

841
00:35:27,839 --> 00:35:30,160
surprising for a ballot measure on the

842
00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,040
ballot in March of 2020.

843
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,240
Um, as we look down this list, uh, you

844
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:37,760
can see many of them are the public

845
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,480
safety parcel tax, uh, the paramedic

846
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:44,240
services tax. Um, all of those renewals

847
00:35:44,240 --> 00:35:49,040
and, um, except for, uh, the 2012, it

848
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,320
was to lower the tax. Um, and you can

849
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,800
see here again as we're looking at this

850
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,200
those November elections, the turnout

851
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,560
percent, then you see the yes percent.

852
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,680
Um, and then whether or not it passed.

853
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,960
So, the only time there was uh the no

854
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:11,200
vote that was in June 5th of 2012.

855
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:14,960
Um, and that one failed to pass. But

856
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,480
each time otherwise they have passed.

857
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:20,960
How far back in time did you go?

858
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,480
>> Uh, so we went back to 2010. Um, because

859
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,359
we we did have a major fail for Ross

860
00:36:27,359 --> 00:36:32,240
School in what's that Elizabeth? 20

861
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:36,079
thou 2006. No, 2005. It was before the

862
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:36,880
flood.

863
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,079
>> Ah, yes.

864
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:41,680
>> May um excuse me Joy. These are just the

865
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,240
um town measures, right? It's not the

866
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:45,440
school district,

867
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,119
>> correct? There is there is actually

868
00:36:47,119 --> 00:36:48,800
another uh there are some other

869
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:50,560
elections in here that are the school

870
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:52,400
district's parcel tax and we didn't

871
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:53,280
include all of those.

872
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,400
>> I think the school enrollment is

873
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:55,359
Branson, right?

874
00:36:55,359 --> 00:36:56,240
>> Yep, it is.

875
00:36:56,240 --> 00:36:59,760
>> Yeah, but the the 2060%

876
00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:01,680
that wasn't a town measure. That was a

877
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:03,760
private school measure. So,

878
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,599
>> but it's considered the town's

879
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:07,200
>> right. No, of course. But I mean, as far

880
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,880
as like did the town put something

881
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,599
forward that didn't pass? Um it wasn't

882
00:37:11,599 --> 00:37:13,359
the town that put that forward,

883
00:37:13,359 --> 00:37:15,680
>> right? So the 2012 is the only measure

884
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,960
that we have that um so again we're kind

885
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,440
of looking at those turnout trends and

886
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,920
the yes percent. Um you know the

887
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,400
takeaway here is I I think one of the

888
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,520
takeaways anyway is that the town values

889
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,359
both public safety and paramedic

890
00:37:33,359 --> 00:37:37,280
services and we can see that that is uh

891
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,680
true because it often is renewed except

892
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,520
for that uh 2012 measure. So, as we look

893
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,320
at each one of these just a little bit,

894
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,920
you know, in different ways, we're

895
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:49,359
looking at the yes vote, we're looking

896
00:37:49,359 --> 00:37:52,000
at the no vote, and again, what type of

897
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,560
measure it was. Um, you know, you can

898
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,359
kind of see the data here. I'll just

899
00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:59,599
kind of lightly gloss over these because

900
00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:01,839
it's just each way of looking at that

901
00:38:01,839 --> 00:38:04,240
summary chart that we just did, but it's

902
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,800
just a another opportunity to see all

903
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,800
the numbers because now you can see the

904
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,440
total number of voters plus the total

905
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,960
turnout each time. Um, so right when

906
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:19,280
we're looking at 2010, we can see 1677

907
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:24,000
total voters, the turnout was 1133, 68%

908
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,480
turnout. If we look then at the primary

909
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,839
measure on March 5th, 2024, you can see

910
00:38:29,839 --> 00:38:32,400
total voters 1743.

911
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,200
Uh turnout was 874,

912
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,480
a 50% turnout. So just kind of comparing

913
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,839
here a November election to a March

914
00:38:41,839 --> 00:38:44,640
election. Um so even though one is a

915
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:46,400
paramedic and the other is public

916
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,400
safety, we're still just looking at two

917
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,240
different election dates to see how the

918
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:53,599
turnout changes.

919
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:55,920
And on the next slide, we're looking at

920
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:58,960
a November election versus a June

921
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,440
election. So again, just taking a look

922
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,079
at the turnout. Um, you know, you can

923
00:39:04,079 --> 00:39:06,400
see your yes vote, your no votes are,

924
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,200
you know, fairly similar. The June saw a

925
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,400
slightly higher yes vote. But, uh, as we

926
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,160
look down at the turnout, we can see

927
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,920
total number of voters voting in the

928
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,560
election, pretty similar at about 1,600

929
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,839
voters. Um but the November election a

930
00:39:21,839 --> 00:39:24,320
slightly higher turnout as it reached

931
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,160
over a thousand voters turning out at

932
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:33,910
65% again June 892 53%.

933
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,280
And then finally here just another you

934
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:39,359
know public safety public safety both of

935
00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:42,960
these are no uh November elections. Um

936
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,680
the 2016 election was a presidential.

937
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,480
The 2012 election um also a

938
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,240
presidential. And again, you can see

939
00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:52,000
this is where you enjoy your highest

940
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,400
turnouts. So each time we're just kind

941
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,720
of looking how do these elections

942
00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,400
compare to each other and how does

943
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,720
turnout compare? Because when we're

944
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,400
thinking about putting a potential

945
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:04,560
measure on the ballot, one of the things

946
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:08,160
that you want to understand is um is it

947
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,560
doing better when it's on a ballot with

948
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,960
lots of other things as these November

949
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,520
ballots are, right? Every time we have a

950
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,720
presidential year, just um even a

951
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:21,280
gubanatorial year like this year, we see

952
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,440
win many more things on the ballot. Many

953
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,200
state measures, many county measures,

954
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,760
many school measures, but we still enjoy

955
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,079
a large turnout. So although we may not

956
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:32,640
control the conversation, voters are

957
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,800
turning out to vote on the measures and

958
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,880
we're seeing that it's not impacting at

959
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,520
least these public safety measures. Um

960
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:41,520
you're still able to have a conversation

961
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,359
and be heard and these measures are

962
00:40:43,359 --> 00:40:46,320
doing well in those November elections.

963
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,880
But if I go back one slide, you can see

964
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,440
again like the primary measures were

965
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,440
just seeing lower turnout. So, you might

966
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,480
be not there might not be as many things

967
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,720
on the ballot in that primary election,

968
00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:01,440
but voters just aren't being compelled

969
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,560
to turn out even though it's still a

970
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:09,839
issue that is important to the town. So,

971
00:41:09,839 --> 00:41:13,280
okay. So, uh h here we go. Just turnout

972
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,599
over time. Again, just another way to

973
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:18,079
look at it all and be able to kind of

974
00:41:18,079 --> 00:41:20,720
see that turnout trend. So, we've put

975
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:24,720
the measures in there from 2010 to 2024.

976
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,200
You can see your high measure turnout

977
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,480
was measure K in 2016. That's when the

978
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,200
highest number of voters turned out.

979
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:34,960
These later election years, we just

980
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,200
haven't seen the same turnout. So,

981
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,520
again, those are primary elections,

982
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:41,520
those last three that we're seeing, the

983
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,319
F, the I, and the E. And you can see how

984
00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:46,800
much lower the turnout is in those

985
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,040
primary elections.

986
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,599
So then we take a look at also the

987
00:41:51,599 --> 00:41:54,079
passage rate for each of those elections

988
00:41:54,079 --> 00:41:55,760
and you can see it's actually pretty

989
00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,240
consistent. Um you know we have a a

990
00:41:58,240 --> 00:41:59,920
little bit of a low drop there in that

991
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:02,480
June 5th of 2012. We have a little bit

992
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,079
of a a low drop in March of 2020. Both

993
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:08,319
of those you know that's the pandemic.

994
00:42:08,319 --> 00:42:11,520
So you would expect that. Um but

995
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,200
otherwise you've enjoyed a pretty

996
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,160
consistent yes vote except for those

997
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,079
dips.

998
00:42:18,079 --> 00:42:20,640
And so finally one last way to look at

999
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,680
it. Uh many people see different data

1000
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,160
differently. So I'm trying to provide an

1001
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,319
overall view so that you can you know

1002
00:42:28,319 --> 00:42:30,160
just see different ways of looking at

1003
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:32,560
this. So again the yellow dots are the

1004
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,920
primary elections. The blue dots are the

1005
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,680
general elections. Those being the

1006
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,359
November elections. And again, except

1007
00:42:41,359 --> 00:42:43,760
for those two elections where we saw a

1008
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,680
dip in both voter turnout, uh we're also

1009
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,760
seeing, you know, those measures kind of

1010
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,240
down there in the lower end of

1011
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:55,440
percentage passage or percentage yes,

1012
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:57,520
not passage because again, the one

1013
00:42:57,520 --> 00:42:59,680
measure did pass the student enrollment.

1014
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:00,960
It's just that it didn't require

1015
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,270
twothirds.

1016
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,720
So, one of the takeaways that again I

1017
00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:12,079
have about this is that when we're

1018
00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:14,800
looking at these elections, one

1019
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,640
consideration you have when you're

1020
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,839
looking at all of the um data

1021
00:43:19,839 --> 00:43:23,440
aggregately is, you know, mostly these

1022
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:25,680
public safety measures, both of them,

1023
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:27,680
the paramedic services and the public

1024
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:30,560
safety one have enjoyed success

1025
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,720
regardless of voter turnout. So it

1026
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:34,240
didn't matter whether we had high voter

1027
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,160
turnout or low voter turnout. It's just

1028
00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,400
a service that people care about and so

1029
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,720
we were able to have a good conversation

1030
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,160
and people understood the need of it. I

1031
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,160
think as you're switching gears and

1032
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:48,160
looking at a different subject, there

1033
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:50,160
are a lot of things to think about. And

1034
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,920
so the rest of the slides, I just kind

1035
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,520
of want to go through that and pull that

1036
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,440
apart because we're no longer talking

1037
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,359
about public safety. We're talking about

1038
00:43:57,359 --> 00:43:59,280
public buildings and people have

1039
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,280
different emotional attachments to each

1040
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,680
of those items and it's worthwhile to

1041
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,000
consider that as you're looking at what

1042
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,640
you know what to do next and what type

1043
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,760
of measure to put on the ballot. So when

1044
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:13,839
you're looking at election timing and

1045
00:44:13,839 --> 00:44:15,359
you're considering that as part of the

1046
00:44:15,359 --> 00:44:19,520
process, the factors beside a primary

1047
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,880
election or a general election are the

1048
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:24,880
measure type, which is what I just

1049
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:28,000
explained. Um, public trust. That's

1050
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,560
always important when a a public entity

1051
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:32,160
is looking to put a ballot measure on

1052
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,000
the ballot. We see the more trust people

1053
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,079
have in that public entity, the more

1054
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:38,960
likely they are to be successful. Um,

1055
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,920
tax amount. It's no surprise that here

1056
00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,480
in California, we're seeing a lot of tax

1057
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,200
sensitivity recently, regardless of what

1058
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,280
type of measure it is. Uh we've been

1059
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:51,520
doing surveys all over the state and I

1060
00:44:51,520 --> 00:44:53,440
will say it is the number one issue I

1061
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,280
have seen this past year that has come

1062
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,160
up in the minds of California voters is

1063
00:44:58,160 --> 00:45:01,359
this tax sensitivity. Um a lot of that

1064
00:45:01,359 --> 00:45:04,560
is because of the economy. Uh people are

1065
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,720
feeling inflation in a way that they

1066
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,200
just haven't felt it before. Um and I

1067
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:10,960
work in a lot of communities that are

1068
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,760
similar small um and uh you know similar

1069
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:17,760
demographics as the town of Ross. And it

1070
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:19,200
doesn't matter where you are in

1071
00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,119
California, everyone is sort of feeling

1072
00:45:21,119 --> 00:45:23,599
this uh when you're thinking about it.

1073
00:45:23,599 --> 00:45:26,560
Also, another thing to consider is will

1074
00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:28,319
there be potential opposition? Do we

1075
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:29,920
have everybody around the table? Is

1076
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,400
everybody having a good conversation or

1077
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,720
will there be opposition? Uh for a

1078
00:45:34,720 --> 00:45:37,119
potential geo bond on the b uh on the

1079
00:45:37,119 --> 00:45:40,000
ballot, it would be a twothirds measure.

1080
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,560
Um so right in order to be successful

1081
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,720
those measures require a lot of

1082
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,400
consensus. Um they often fail when they

1083
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,760
have a minimal amount of opposition

1084
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,560
and then the ability to form and have an

1085
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,640
independent campaign committee. Uh the

1086
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,480
town can always provide public

1087
00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,520
information and talk about the process

1088
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,440
uh just as you're planning to be doing

1089
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,480
as you're moving forward. However, once

1090
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,079
uh the town makes a decision to move

1091
00:46:10,079 --> 00:46:12,240
forward to put something on the ballot,

1092
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:13,839
that has to be supported by an

1093
00:46:13,839 --> 00:46:16,319
independent campaign committee. And uh I

1094
00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:18,000
believe all of your previous measures

1095
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,359
have had some level of that uh before,

1096
00:46:21,359 --> 00:46:23,040
which is part of the reason they were

1097
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,190
successful.

1098
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,680
So, what potential election dates are

1099
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,800
available in 2027? There are four

1100
00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:37,040
potential election dates. 2027 will be

1101
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,599
an off-year election. So just that alone

1102
00:46:41,599 --> 00:46:43,920
will likely make it a lower turnout

1103
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,800
election because people are used to

1104
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:48,960
voting in even numbered years and

1105
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:50,960
they're used to voting in November of

1106
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,680
those even numbered years.

1107
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:55,440
There are pros and cons to each one of

1108
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,359
these elections. We'll go through those

1109
00:46:57,359 --> 00:47:00,079
one by one. Um, but just on a high

1110
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:04,240
level, uh, March 2nd, May 4th, the

1111
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:07,040
county lists August 31st. That's very

1112
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:09,280
odd to me, but their dates and their

1113
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,119
calendar all line up with that August

1114
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:14,560
31st. Uh, typically, uh, elections are

1115
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:16,800
the first Tuesday after the first

1116
00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,040
Monday. So, we would confirm that with

1117
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:21,440
the county, but it does appear that they

1118
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,920
have an August 31st votebymail special

1119
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,000
election. And then of course there is

1120
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:29,839
the November 2nd 2027 special election.

1121
00:47:29,839 --> 00:47:32,160
So for each one of these elections there

1122
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,040
are some pros and cons. Um one of the

1123
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,440
big ones is the cost consideration.

1124
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:38,880
You'll notice that some of these are

1125
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,040
labeled vote by mail special election

1126
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,880
and some are just labeled special

1127
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,920
election. Um with the um with the

1128
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,880
requirement now of vote centers, uh that

1129
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,359
can often increase the costs for an

1130
00:47:53,359 --> 00:47:55,599
election, a standalone election

1131
00:47:55,599 --> 00:47:58,800
especially because you're required to

1132
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:01,440
have a vote center open 10 days before

1133
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,000
election day and that has to be staffed

1134
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,760
by someone from the county during the

1135
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,640
open hours and that can increase costs.

1136
00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,119
I recently did a ballot measure and I

1137
00:48:11,119 --> 00:48:14,560
just give this as an example for the uh

1138
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,359
San Marino Unified School District. So

1139
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:19,760
very small insular community, a little

1140
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:21,839
bigger than the town of Ross, but also

1141
00:48:21,839 --> 00:48:24,240
small. Uh they were renewing a parcel

1142
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:26,960
tax on the ballot. Uh because they were

1143
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:29,520
required to have vote centers open. Uh

1144
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:33,200
the uh county build them. Normally they

1145
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:36,480
had paid somewhere around 20 to $30,000

1146
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:38,720
to renew their measure. They were

1147
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:42,160
charged over $800,000 for that election

1148
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,079
and it took many many uh back and forth

1149
00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:48,160
for them for the county to come down

1150
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,400
from that. So it's just I think really

1151
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:53,920
important in the planning um to

1152
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,079
understand what the county would charge

1153
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:58,160
for a vote by mail versus a special

1154
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,040
election. Uh I am very cautious about

1155
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:04,079
that since since the district had been

1156
00:49:04,079 --> 00:49:07,599
built that the other things to consider

1157
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,960
is just this November uh this November

1158
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:14,160
because these are all 2027 uh election

1159
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:16,640
dates. You're coming on the heels of

1160
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,440
this November's election. Everyone will

1161
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:21,599
have heard everything about this

1162
00:49:21,599 --> 00:49:24,079
November by the time you vote to move to

1163
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,480
place something on the ballot in 2027

1164
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,119
should you decide to do that.

1165
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:31,520
This ballot will be crowded. There is a

1166
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,839
contested gubanatorial election for the

1167
00:49:33,839 --> 00:49:36,079
first time in a long time in California.

1168
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:37,599
Means we're going to have a lot of TV

1169
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:39,760
ads, a lot of text messaging, a lot of

1170
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,920
mail. There's also um some very uh

1171
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,640
interesting statewide propositions that

1172
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,160
include uh provisions about uh tax

1173
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:52,079
measures that will get a lot of

1174
00:49:52,079 --> 00:49:55,200
attention this November as well. And uh

1175
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:56,720
you know, as I mentioned on a previous

1176
00:49:56,720 --> 00:49:59,920
slide, the tax sensitivity is high. So

1177
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:01,599
that will be interesting as that

1178
00:50:01,599 --> 00:50:04,319
conversation happens this November. Um

1179
00:50:04,319 --> 00:50:06,400
it's hard to get voters attention for

1180
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,720
education when they're focused on

1181
00:50:08,720 --> 00:50:11,040
November. So they're focused on this

1182
00:50:11,040 --> 00:50:12,960
November's election. It's hard to get

1183
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,680
them to think about the future when this

1184
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,319
is what they're hearing all the time. Um

1185
00:50:18,319 --> 00:50:20,480
and then that voter, you know, tax

1186
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:23,599
fatigue. Um and then lastly, you know,

1187
00:50:23,599 --> 00:50:26,079
Proposition 43, which is what I just

1188
00:50:26,079 --> 00:50:28,559
mentioned, uh that is on the ballot

1189
00:50:28,559 --> 00:50:31,520
talking about restricting, um the

1190
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,040
potential for citizens initiatives and

1191
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,680
uh tax measures going forward. So,

1192
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:39,119
that's going to have a lot of

1193
00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:41,200
conversation around it and it'll just be

1194
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,000
interesting as we move it forward based

1195
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,720
on how California voters decide on that.

1196
00:50:46,720 --> 00:50:48,559
So, I think it's something to watch as

1197
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:50,319
you're considering future ballot

1198
00:50:50,319 --> 00:50:54,630
measures.

1199
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,520
So, I just again I promised that I would

1200
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,119
go through each one of those as a pros

1201
00:50:59,119 --> 00:51:02,400
and con, but here I'm taking a moment to

1202
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:04,240
just show what March would look like

1203
00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:06,319
because I think in order to understand

1204
00:51:06,319 --> 00:51:08,000
the pros and cons of each of these

1205
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:10,160
elections, it's helpful to be thinking

1206
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,880
of the uh process and kind of the

1207
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:15,359
timeline that you'd be working under in

1208
00:51:15,359 --> 00:51:18,240
order to meet a particular deadline.

1209
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:21,359
So, I like this graphic because

1210
00:51:21,359 --> 00:51:23,200
oftentimes when I'm thinking about a

1211
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:25,200
ballot measure, I think about the

1212
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,760
election date I'm targeting. So, in this

1213
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:30,000
particular example, we are looking at

1214
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,839
the March 2027 election. So, from there,

1215
00:51:33,839 --> 00:51:36,079
you have to work backwards and think,

1216
00:51:36,079 --> 00:51:38,400
okay, this is our ultimate target. What

1217
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,240
does it look like when we work backwards

1218
00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:42,880
from that date? The important thing here

1219
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,359
when you're looking at this is we have

1220
00:51:45,359 --> 00:51:47,359
purposely uh you'll notice there are

1221
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:50,160
four steps but purposely we have colored

1222
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,359
the first three arrows blue. Those are

1223
00:51:53,359 --> 00:51:56,160
items that a public entity can do as

1224
00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:58,400
part of their planning process. So

1225
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:01,359
they're blue on purpose before that blue

1226
00:52:01,359 --> 00:52:04,880
line. Uh then the arrow changes uh color

1227
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:07,599
to yellow because that is a separate

1228
00:52:07,599 --> 00:52:09,599
process done by the independent campaign

1229
00:52:09,599 --> 00:52:12,960
committee. So these first three arrows

1230
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:15,119
are the things that the town can do as

1231
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:17,599
part of your planning process.

1232
00:52:17,599 --> 00:52:20,960
So again, as we're kind of working

1233
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,359
backwards, that date right under that

1234
00:52:23,359 --> 00:52:25,680
November 2026,

1235
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,839
in order to place a measure on the

1236
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:31,839
ballot, uh the council uh would have to

1237
00:52:31,839 --> 00:52:35,920
vote 88 days before election day at your

1238
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,119
current elect uh cycle of meetings. That

1239
00:52:39,119 --> 00:52:42,559
likely means a November vote. So, voting

1240
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:47,040
right after the general election in

1241
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,200
order to meet that deadline to get on

1242
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,160
the ballot for March. Uh it would enable

1243
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,319
you to place that ballot measure on the

1244
00:52:54,319 --> 00:52:56,559
March ballot. So, everything we would be

1245
00:52:56,559 --> 00:52:59,359
doing between now um this middle of

1246
00:52:59,359 --> 00:53:02,240
August through that November date is

1247
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:04,559
covered by those three arrows. So the

1248
00:53:04,559 --> 00:53:06,319
first thing you know kind of considering

1249
00:53:06,319 --> 00:53:08,960
is uh the voters whether or not you

1250
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:10,480
would be interested in some sort of

1251
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,800
voter survey to understand the interests

1252
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,920
of your voters. Um the election timing,

1253
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:19,040
what date is best suited? Uh the

1254
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:21,359
political landscape and the tax rate.

1255
00:53:21,359 --> 00:53:23,359
Those are all part of the feasibility

1256
00:53:23,359 --> 00:53:25,680
question. Is this feasible to put on a

1257
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,680
future ballot?

1258
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:29,839
then you're kind of looking at that

1259
00:53:29,839 --> 00:53:33,040
September through November time frame uh

1260
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,920
to do that awareness building. Those are

1261
00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:38,160
those non-advocacy communications. It's

1262
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:39,839
part of the process that you're already

1263
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:41,839
building. Um you know, having regular

1264
00:53:41,839 --> 00:53:43,920
meetings about the master plan

1265
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,559
amendments, um talking about how you

1266
00:53:46,559 --> 00:53:48,480
would fund that, talking about potential

1267
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:51,280
solutions. Um all of that awareness

1268
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,680
building can be done using your existing

1269
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,240
communications. Um, it's making sure

1270
00:53:56,240 --> 00:53:58,480
that everybody internally understands

1271
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,119
the process and then also expanding that

1272
00:54:01,119 --> 00:54:03,920
to your external audiences. Again,

1273
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,640
building on the transparency and trust

1274
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:08,720
as you're moving through this process

1275
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:10,480
and determining whether or not the

1276
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,559
community is ready to move forward

1277
00:54:12,559 --> 00:54:15,040
because ultimately elections do cost

1278
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:16,720
money. And if you're putting something

1279
00:54:16,720 --> 00:54:18,880
on the ballot, you want to hope that it

1280
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,839
has a chance of success. Then the final

1281
00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:23,839
thing just before you vote is that

1282
00:54:23,839 --> 00:54:25,599
ballot measure development. So it is

1283
00:54:25,599 --> 00:54:27,599
that ballot question that important

1284
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,400
75word statement that appears on the

1285
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,319
everyone's ballots that they ultimately

1286
00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:36,160
vote on. Uh the tax rate which will be

1287
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,559
part of the ballot book and then you

1288
00:54:38,559 --> 00:54:41,280
know also ballot arguments and signers.

1289
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,720
So it's a it's a fairly compressed but

1290
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:47,200
not impossible timeline in order to

1291
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,599
prepare for a March election. And so you

1292
00:54:49,599 --> 00:54:51,839
can imagine as we go through each of the

1293
00:54:51,839 --> 00:54:54,400
other election dates, you're still doing

1294
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,880
these same things. It's just changing

1295
00:54:56,880 --> 00:55:03,829
the time that we have in order to do it.

1296
00:55:03,839 --> 00:55:06,400
So here are some considerations for each

1297
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,960
of those potential election dates. So

1298
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,280
again, I have that March date, the May

1299
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:13,359
date, the August date, and the November

1300
00:55:13,359 --> 00:55:14,480
date.

1301
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:18,880
um each one of these it's very likely

1302
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,520
that it will be a single issue ballot.

1303
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,680
Uh right, there's just not much

1304
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:25,440
likelihood that anything else would be

1305
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,000
on the ballot. So again, we're probably

1306
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,280
dealing with lower turnout. Um but some

1307
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,000
advantages of each uh these elections,

1308
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,880
obviously the March and May elections,

1309
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,880
uh earlier funding for the potential

1310
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,280
project, if it were to pass, uh it would

1311
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,520
allow you to do that. Um, some

1312
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:45,920
disadvantages for both of those is that

1313
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,680
compressed, you know, faster time

1314
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,119
schedule that we just saw on the

1315
00:55:49,119 --> 00:55:52,240
previous slide. Um, you know, potential

1316
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:54,880
costs of a vote center in March because

1317
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:56,960
you might remember that one just said

1318
00:55:56,960 --> 00:55:58,880
special election. It didn't say mail

1319
00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,839
ballot was available. Um, and less

1320
00:56:01,839 --> 00:56:04,559
project maturity, less time to, you

1321
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:06,000
know, have the conversation with the

1322
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,480
community, less time to make planning.

1323
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,280
Um, same with May. Uh again, May is not

1324
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,920
a time when people uh typically vote. So

1325
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,960
you may see even lower voter turnout in

1326
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,760
May because people just aren't expecting

1327
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,319
and as school years are and graduations

1328
00:56:26,319 --> 00:56:28,400
and all those things are happening. Uh

1329
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,280
we just don't see a lot of people um

1330
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,680
participating in May elections. So it's

1331
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:35,200
just important to kind of think about

1332
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,119
that. Um August again single issue uh

1333
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:42,400
earlier funding. Um the hard thing about

1334
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,640
August elections I we have tried these

1335
00:56:44,640 --> 00:56:46,480
many many times in different

1336
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:48,880
communities. I have rarely seen an

1337
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,760
August measure pass. I'll be quite frank

1338
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,000
because people are doing their last

1339
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,839
minute traveling before their kids go

1340
00:56:55,839 --> 00:56:58,480
back to school or you know before the

1341
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,599
end of the summer. it would be in my

1342
00:57:01,599 --> 00:57:04,559
mind the the one that I would least

1343
00:57:04,559 --> 00:57:07,280
likely recommend. Um it is just very

1344
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,319
hard to capture voters in August uh

1345
00:57:10,319 --> 00:57:13,680
November of 2027. Um you know obviously

1346
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:17,920
it is a longer runway. Um we won't know

1347
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:19,920
again if there would be additional costs

1348
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:21,920
if that would be required for a vote

1349
00:57:21,920 --> 00:57:23,359
center. That would be something we'd

1350
00:57:23,359 --> 00:57:25,760
have to figure out with the county. Um

1351
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,520
but you'd have time for more public

1352
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:29,760
outreach. you'd have more time for pro

1353
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:32,720
uh project definition. Um it's possible

1354
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:34,960
that if anyone else was targeting a

1355
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,640
election, they'd probably be targeting

1356
00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,720
that. There could be other things on

1357
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,799
that ballot, but again, I would expect

1358
00:57:40,799 --> 00:57:43,359
it would still be a single issue. Uh

1359
00:57:43,359 --> 00:57:46,240
very likely, it's just if if someone

1360
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,680
else was looking at a ballot, they

1361
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:52,870
probably would look at that.

1362
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:54,640
So, the other thing I wanted to talk

1363
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:57,119
about, and I know that uh the town has

1364
00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:00,960
perhaps uh not done a voter survey in

1365
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,440
the past, but I wanted to sort of talk a

1366
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,119
little bit about advantages and

1367
00:58:05,119 --> 00:58:08,720
disadvantages. Um I have worked with uh

1368
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:10,880
towns that are even smaller than the

1369
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,480
town of Ross who have done voter

1370
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,799
surveys, so I know they can be done.

1371
00:58:14,799 --> 00:58:16,799
I've done jurisdictions that are even

1372
00:58:16,799 --> 00:58:20,160
smaller. um you know some that have had

1373
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,160
50 to 150 voters. Uh you do voter

1374
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:25,680
surveys differently in those

1375
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,920
communities. Um so is it helpful? Yes.

1376
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:32,480
But there are some considerations. Uh I

1377
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,720
think uh what are some of those

1378
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:37,359
advantages? A voter survey is a

1379
00:58:37,359 --> 00:58:39,920
scientific way to look at registered

1380
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:42,160
voters who are likely to vote in a

1381
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:45,920
particular election. So, it really is

1382
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,480
meant to give you a clear idea of where

1383
00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,280
people are today on the issues and it

1384
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:54,559
doesn't even just have to be about

1385
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:57,760
uh the you know master plan project. You

1386
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,599
could actually ask questions about other

1387
00:58:59,599 --> 00:59:00,960
things that are important in the

1388
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,760
community. So, there are opportunities

1389
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,960
to ask about other town priorities. So,

1390
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,359
it could help you inform the process and

1391
00:59:09,359 --> 00:59:10,880
understand what some of the cost

1392
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,079
tolerances are. Um, one town I worked

1393
00:59:14,079 --> 00:59:16,720
with, uh, they looked at two different

1394
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:19,119
types of ballot measures. Uh, this was

1395
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:21,680
way up north in, um, one of the northern

1396
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:26,480
counties, uh, a sea or an oceanside

1397
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,799
town. Um, and right, they were

1398
00:59:28,799 --> 00:59:30,880
considering both a fire measure and

1399
00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:33,760
another, uh, general sales tax measure.

1400
00:59:33,760 --> 00:59:35,920
Um, in order, you know, by going through

1401
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:38,559
the survey process, they were able to

1402
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:40,799
figure out what was best for their town.

1403
00:59:40,799 --> 00:59:43,040
and it actually helped them uh be

1404
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:46,319
successful after uh previous failures.

1405
00:59:46,319 --> 00:59:48,880
So again, sometimes it can help give you

1406
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,200
some information that you may not have.

1407
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,760
The disadvantages are, you know, a

1408
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,319
professional survey firm that is not me.

1409
00:59:56,319 --> 00:59:58,400
Uh we don't do surveys, but I work with

1410
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,440
survey firms. Um depending on the type

1411
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,920
of survey, you know, the cost can be

1412
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:07,040
between 25 and 30,000. I think if you

1413
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,200
are asking other questions about other

1414
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,280
town priorities, it probably helps

1415
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,920
add value. Uh if it's a single issue

1416
01:00:15,920 --> 01:00:17,839
survey though, it may not be as

1417
01:00:17,839 --> 01:00:20,319
valuable. That could be a disadvantage.

1418
01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:22,400
The other disadvantage is that it would

1419
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,280
require some time to build that survey,

1420
01:00:25,280 --> 01:00:27,520
right? You'd want to hire a firm. You'd

1421
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:28,799
want to talk to them about the

1422
01:00:28,799 --> 01:00:31,520
questions. You want um you know, in our

1423
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:33,040
firm, I would work with you on that

1424
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,000
process. uh if we were you know moving

1425
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,960
forward um but it would add some time

1426
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:40,799
right if we were targeting something in

1427
01:00:40,799 --> 01:00:43,040
March uh you obviously wouldn't want to

1428
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,599
field a survey in October of this year

1429
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:47,760
for example right it would mean you'd

1430
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,079
have to do a survey in September and

1431
01:00:50,079 --> 01:00:52,400
then I'd have some questions about you

1432
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,799
know how

1433
01:00:54,799 --> 01:00:57,440
since it was done before the election in

1434
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,160
November like you know voter perceptions

1435
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:02,720
could change so you wouldn't actually

1436
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:04,240
want to do a survey day before the

1437
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:06,640
November election and that's an

1438
01:01:06,640 --> 01:01:09,040
incredibly tight timeline between then

1439
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:12,079
and March. So, you know, just concept.

1440
01:01:12,079 --> 01:01:14,079
Again, I'm not trying to tell you which

1441
01:01:14,079 --> 01:01:15,680
one is better. I'm just trying to

1442
01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,599
provide you with information to help you

1443
01:01:17,599 --> 01:01:18,880
make a good decision as you're

1444
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:24,309
considering all these options.

1445
01:01:24,319 --> 01:01:26,640
So, uh next steps, I promise I think I'm

1446
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:31,280
down to two slides. So, uh, next steps,

1447
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,359
part of the next steps would be to bring

1448
01:01:33,359 --> 01:01:35,680
the team together to help, uh, put

1449
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:37,920
together this plan. Uh, and that would

1450
01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:39,280
be including, you know, your bond

1451
01:01:39,280 --> 01:01:41,839
council, uh, the municipal financial

1452
01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:44,799
advisor. Uh, we would be part of that

1453
01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:47,200
communications and planning consultant,

1454
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:49,359
um, your architect, your cost estimator,

1455
01:01:49,359 --> 01:01:51,440
and then, of course, town staff. That

1456
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,280
really is your full team as you're

1457
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,240
considering this project. Um the types

1458
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,640
of things that we specifically work on

1459
01:01:58,640 --> 01:02:00,640
uh we work with the team on feasibility.

1460
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:02,960
So is a survey right? What type of

1461
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:04,960
survey is right? How should we go about

1462
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,559
that? Um strategic communications. Uh in

1463
01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:10,720
many cities I've worked on you know town

1464
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:13,200
halls or worked on presentations as you

1465
01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:15,440
go out. Sometimes instead of bringing

1466
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:17,040
people to you it's better to go where

1467
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,839
people are. So how do we work those uh

1468
01:02:19,839 --> 01:02:21,680
communications into those existing

1469
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:24,720
meetings? um you know working on that

1470
01:02:24,720 --> 01:02:27,520
communication engagement uh election

1471
01:02:27,520 --> 01:02:29,680
timing and then coordination with all

1472
01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,240
the other adviserss oftentimes uh we

1473
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,720
work to help um run the timeline and

1474
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,359
just make sure because we do have a date

1475
01:02:37,359 --> 01:02:39,200
that we have in mind as I showed with

1476
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:41,440
the timeline uh and we want to make sure

1477
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:43,440
that we've accomplished all the things

1478
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,000
we want to accomplish before the council

1479
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:47,920
makes a decision about which direction

1480
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,920
to go and and ultimately placing a

1481
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,990
measure on the ballot.

1482
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:56,079
So here it is. I promised the last

1483
01:02:56,079 --> 01:02:58,960
slide. Uh so happy to answer any

1484
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:01,119
questions. But I think some of the

1485
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:03,920
things that we were hoping this would uh

1486
01:03:03,920 --> 01:03:07,200
lead to discussion on is you know is the

1487
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,520
town interested in continuing evaluing

1488
01:03:09,520 --> 01:03:13,040
future uh future funding options? Um do

1489
01:03:13,040 --> 01:03:15,200
we feel that uh public outreach is

1490
01:03:15,200 --> 01:03:17,920
appropriate? um is there any other

1491
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:21,119
analysis on the election timing and you

1492
01:03:21,119 --> 01:03:23,200
know whether we should uh our firm

1493
01:03:23,200 --> 01:03:26,000
should be a part of that process. So

1494
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,319
these are our questions and I don't know

1495
01:03:28,319 --> 01:03:31,599
David if you had anything else or

1496
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:35,680
>> just add a quick uh as as Joy mentions

1497
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:37,760
one of the partners

1498
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,680
that the town would engage with respect

1499
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:43,839
to a bond measure would be your

1500
01:03:43,839 --> 01:03:46,559
financial or municipal advisor and we

1501
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:49,119
are working with Philman Rolap on a on a

1502
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:51,599
scope of work. Uh should council decide

1503
01:03:51,599 --> 01:03:53,839
to move forward, we will um be working

1504
01:03:53,839 --> 01:03:57,359
with them to uh help assist with

1505
01:03:57,359 --> 01:04:00,079
determining appropriate tax rates that

1506
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:03,119
would fund the proposed uh geo bond

1507
01:04:03,119 --> 01:04:07,670
measure.

1508
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:09,520
» Questions?

1509
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:11,200
>> Will there be questions and then public

1510
01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:13,280
comment and then we will discuss that.

1511
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,079
Okay. So um one question, what is the

1512
01:04:16,079 --> 01:04:18,400
date of the May election?

1513
01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:21,119
>> Uh yes. So I believe it was May 4th.

1514
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:23,440
Yes. I'm happy to go back to

1515
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,440
>> So that actually wouldn't I mean it

1516
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:28,079
might not affect you mentioned college

1517
01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:30,079
and things like that, but people vote a

1518
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:32,480
month ahead. So I mean it may not it may

1519
01:04:32,480 --> 01:04:35,839
not be as late as it sounded if it's May

1520
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:36,559
4.

1521
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,440
>> Yes, this is true. It's just a not a

1522
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,440
normal time that people would vote. So

1523
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,359
you're dealing with an election that

1524
01:04:43,359 --> 01:04:47,920
almost no one votes in. And then um what

1525
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:50,000
uh you said there could be a cost for

1526
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,520
voter uh centers in March. What do you

1527
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:55,760
estimate the county would charge uh our

1528
01:04:55,760 --> 01:04:59,119
town if we have that in on on the ballot

1529
01:04:59,119 --> 01:05:01,359
for a voter center?

1530
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:03,760
>> We don't I don't know at this time. Uh

1531
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:06,799
again, the cost where I find the cost

1532
01:05:06,799 --> 01:05:09,520
exists is the fact that they have to

1533
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,640
fund a paid position for all 10 days

1534
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:14,480
that someone is there while the vote

1535
01:05:14,480 --> 01:05:16,880
center is open. So that's that's what

1536
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:18,880
happened in our small community in San

1537
01:05:18,880 --> 01:05:21,039
Marino. They actually had to pay for the

1538
01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:24,000
cost of the vote center and that I mean

1539
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,200
it was

1540
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:27,280
>> But you said you said 10 days was

1541
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:29,599
$800,000.

1542
01:05:29,599 --> 01:05:31,680
>> Remarkably, it was six. Well, they when

1543
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,160
they gave us a breakdown, it was 600,000

1544
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:37,200
for that piece of it. Yes. It it just

1545
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,920
can be we just don't know. We would have

1546
01:05:39,920 --> 01:05:41,839
>> a way to get closer to that as we're

1547
01:05:41,839 --> 01:05:43,520
trying to decide. I mean, to me, that's

1548
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,599
a deal breaker. Like, I I don't I can't

1549
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:46,000
imagine.

1550
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,240
>> And again, the county here may deal with

1551
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,400
it differently. I don't want to I I just

1552
01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:53,599
was providing an illustrative example.

1553
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:55,119
>> You know, we would communicate with the

1554
01:05:55,119 --> 01:05:57,599
county to determine what that might

1555
01:05:57,599 --> 01:05:59,359
actually look like to give you a better

1556
01:05:59,359 --> 01:06:01,200
idea. And I'm sorry, Chris.

1557
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,200
>> That's okay. Um, thank you, Mayor Prom

1558
01:06:03,200 --> 01:06:05,119
Robbins, for the question. I I asked

1559
01:06:05,119 --> 01:06:07,599
this of our county election office. What

1560
01:06:07,599 --> 01:06:09,200
would be And they they usually provide

1561
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:12,799
us a range and um, if I recall, the high

1562
01:06:12,799 --> 01:06:18,000
end of the range would would be about $25,000

1563
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:21,359
total. But this is a good cautionary

1564
01:06:21,359 --> 01:06:24,400
tale that Joy provides that we would

1565
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:27,680
want to make sure that the county is we

1566
01:06:27,680 --> 01:06:30,480
don't want a surprise like that. So, um,

1567
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:32,559
>> 25 could would include the voter

1568
01:06:32,559 --> 01:06:33,599
station.

1569
01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:37,680
>> I I asked him, "Our council is looking

1570
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,760
into doing a an item on a special

1571
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:43,039
election in 2027. Can you give me a an

1572
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:44,720
estimate of how much it would cost the

1573
01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,280
town of Ross to do this?" And he said,

1574
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:49,119
he gave me a low end and he gave me a

1575
01:06:49,119 --> 01:06:52,079
high-end. um he didn't particularly say

1576
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:55,599
voter um vote centers, but he said the

1577
01:06:55,599 --> 01:06:58,160
high end based on our registered voters

1578
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:00,160
was about 25 thou. And so I said, "Wow,

1579
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:02,160
so the worst case scenario is 25,000."

1580
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,319
And he said he said yes.

1581
01:07:04,319 --> 01:07:04,799
>> Okay.

1582
01:07:04,799 --> 01:07:07,920
>> But I would very much like to and that

1583
01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:10,319
was I have an email to that effect, but

1584
01:07:10,319 --> 01:07:12,160
I would very much would would want to

1585
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:14,160
confirm that now that we have this

1586
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:16,400
cautionary tale. And I think a lot too

1587
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,200
depends on what other jurisdictions

1588
01:07:19,200 --> 01:07:20,960
ha if somebody else you know we get to

1589
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,200
split the cost if somebody else another

1590
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,520
jurisdiction has a um a measure on the

1591
01:07:25,520 --> 01:07:26,640
ballot.

1592
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:28,559
>> Wasn't there something some other town

1593
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:29,839
or someone putting something on the

1594
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:31,359
March ballot already?

1595
01:07:31,359 --> 01:07:34,400
>> Did you I thought I read something about

1596
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,039
something go on the March ballot

1597
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:38,480
but no one's heard. Okay.

1598
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:42,079
>> No. And again, I my concern is that they

1599
01:07:42,079 --> 01:07:44,400
specifically designate special election

1600
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:46,720
versus vote by mail special election on

1601
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,280
the county website. So, it's just it's

1602
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,839
just worth verifying because you

1603
01:07:51,839 --> 01:07:53,280
wouldn't want to be surprised.

1604
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,480
>> Of course. Okay. Thank you.

1605
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:58,640
>> Um could you just briefly talk a little

1606
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:02,000
bit about ballot measure 43?

1607
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:03,760
>> Uh Proposition 43.

1608
01:08:03,760 --> 01:08:09,039
>> Proposition. Um so this is um this is

1609
01:08:09,039 --> 01:08:13,359
the business roundts uh measure. Uh they

1610
01:08:13,359 --> 01:08:18,560
are um for years there has been uh much

1611
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,679
discussion about the upland decision

1612
01:08:21,679 --> 01:08:24,480
which allowed uh citizens initiative

1613
01:08:24,480 --> 01:08:28,400
measures to go on the ballot and pass by

1614
01:08:28,400 --> 01:08:33,359
50% plus one. Um and many of the

1615
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:36,719
taxpayer groups have felt uh thwarted by

1616
01:08:36,719 --> 01:08:39,440
this and so they have been trying to

1617
01:08:39,440 --> 01:08:42,319
unwind it many different ways over

1618
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:46,080
several election cycles. Uh and in this

1619
01:08:46,080 --> 01:08:48,880
last election cycle, they did uh collect

1620
01:08:48,880 --> 01:08:51,520
enough signatures to get their measure

1621
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,000
on the ballot, which essentially would

1622
01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:57,839
undo the ability to uh do this citizens

1623
01:08:57,839 --> 01:08:59,440
initiative and get something on the

1624
01:08:59,440 --> 01:09:01,839
ballot and get it passed by 50% plus

1625
01:09:01,839 --> 01:09:06,000
one. Uh it would then require that 2/3.

1626
01:09:06,000 --> 01:09:11,199
Yes. Um and when you read it, it reads

1627
01:09:11,199 --> 01:09:14,480
very much like you know

1628
01:09:14,480 --> 01:09:20,000
um protecting taxpayers and uh so there

1629
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:22,640
is uh there have been a lot of polling

1630
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:24,560
about it. Uh the governor's office at

1631
01:09:24,560 --> 01:09:26,719
one point tried to negotiate to get it

1632
01:09:26,719 --> 01:09:29,440
off the ballot. That did not work. It

1633
01:09:29,440 --> 01:09:31,440
will be on the ballot and there will be

1634
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:33,679
a lot of discussion about taxes this

1635
01:09:33,679 --> 01:09:35,759
November or October.

1636
01:09:35,759 --> 01:09:38,080
>> Yeah. Thank you.

1637
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:39,920
>> So, I had a question about the

1638
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:43,520
surveying. Does the the survey exercise

1639
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:46,960
inform how the ballot measure would be

1640
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:48,159
structured?

1641
01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:51,040
>> It does. Yes. So, you put the uh you

1642
01:09:51,040 --> 01:09:54,080
actually would test the 75word language.

1643
01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,960
Uh you can also test uh different tax

1644
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:59,440
rates to help understand whether there

1645
01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:01,440
is sensitivity to a particular dollar

1646
01:10:01,440 --> 01:10:04,880
amount. Um you can you can ask about

1647
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:09,040
different town priorities uh right um

1648
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,840
you know lighting streets other things

1649
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:13,679
that are important. It doesn't have to

1650
01:10:13,679 --> 01:10:17,280
be this single issue. Um but you

1651
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,520
ultimately are trying to understand how

1652
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:22,320
voters feel about the particular issue.

1653
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:24,800
>> And how broad of a survey would it be if

1654
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,640
we have 1600 voters like 200 people?

1655
01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:31,360
>> Uh it probably would be 200. Yes. And

1656
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,520
that affects the margin of error. A

1657
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,400
standard survey um for most

1658
01:10:36,400 --> 01:10:39,440
jurisdictions like no matter how big is

1659
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:42,400
400. That gives you a 5% margin of

1660
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:45,679
error. It's like 4.7 uh with a 95%

1661
01:10:45,679 --> 01:10:48,880
confidence level. At 200, it tends to be

1662
01:10:48,880 --> 01:10:52,480
like an 8% margin of error. At a 95%

1663
01:10:52,480 --> 01:10:55,760
confidence level, but um we do that

1664
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:59,920
quite a bit actually. Um it I I often

1665
01:10:59,920 --> 01:11:03,040
have surveys that come back with 200 uh

1666
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:07,760
or so sample size and it's still

1667
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,440
very valid. Um I I still get very strong

1668
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:14,159
results that help with the planning of a

1669
01:11:14,159 --> 01:11:16,960
particular measure. Could you go back to

1670
01:11:16,960 --> 01:11:19,520
your slide where you had the the three

1671
01:11:19,520 --> 01:11:22,159
blue arrows and then the the yellow

1672
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:25,920
arrow mark? I'm just wondering, Christa,

1673
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,600
if you could give some feedback about

1674
01:11:29,600 --> 01:11:31,920
all the stuff that would need to happen

1675
01:11:31,920 --> 01:11:36,480
between now under those blue arrows um

1676
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:39,520
leading up to when we would decide on

1677
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,830
putting something on the ballot,

1678
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,719
» uh the the phrase that pops out at me

1679
01:11:46,719 --> 01:11:49,760
and immediately is tax rate. So under

1680
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:51,920
item number one

1681
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:56,000
um you know we have to have a project to

1682
01:11:56,000 --> 01:12:00,400
have the most accurate cost estimate and

1683
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,400
um right now we're going through an

1684
01:12:02,400 --> 01:12:05,120
amendment process to do that. So and

1685
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,159
there's um some elements there of the

1686
01:12:08,159 --> 01:12:10,560
CAC plan that are you know we need it's

1687
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:11,920
we need to know what the project is

1688
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,400
going to be to describe the process. So

1689
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:16,960
um that's an important part of number

1690
01:12:16,960 --> 01:12:20,159
one. Um and then it looks like we can

1691
01:12:20,159 --> 01:12:22,640
refine it in step number three. So it

1692
01:12:22,640 --> 01:12:26,960
can be refined but um that's my question

1693
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,880
is how can we start with feasibility

1694
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:33,199
without knowing

1695
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:36,880
what the project is?

1696
01:12:36,880 --> 01:12:40,159
Um maybe uh Joy has some other comments

1697
01:12:40,159 --> 01:12:42,800
of your experience with other uh

1698
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:44,800
communities.

1699
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:47,600
Yeah, I I mean obviously as you're going

1700
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:49,920
through it

1701
01:12:49,920 --> 01:12:51,360
when I think about your previous

1702
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:53,520
measures that have enjoyed a lot of

1703
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:56,719
success again I think they are centered

1704
01:12:56,719 --> 01:12:59,760
on priorities that are important to

1705
01:12:59,760 --> 01:13:02,719
Californians, right? Public safety,

1706
01:13:02,719 --> 01:13:06,400
paramedic services, uh many other

1707
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:10,239
jurisdictions anchor their public

1708
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:13,679
finance measures on those things, right?

1709
01:13:13,679 --> 01:13:16,400
Um, and

1710
01:13:16,400 --> 01:13:18,480
public entity bond measures are

1711
01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:20,320
different because they're focused on

1712
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,520
buildings, not services.

1713
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:26,320
And it's just a different emotional

1714
01:13:26,320 --> 01:13:27,840
conversation.

1715
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:31,679
Uh, and so it requires a lot of

1716
01:13:31,679 --> 01:13:34,480
community engagement. It requires it's

1717
01:13:34,480 --> 01:13:36,320
it and again not that these things never

1718
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:38,320
pass. Many buil you know, libraries have

1719
01:13:38,320 --> 01:13:40,880
been built. uh many things have been

1720
01:13:40,880 --> 01:13:43,760
done through these measures but it is

1721
01:13:43,760 --> 01:13:46,719
because a community had a transparent

1722
01:13:46,719 --> 01:13:49,120
open process where there was a lot of

1723
01:13:49,120 --> 01:13:52,560
conversation and there was time to plan.

1724
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,560
So I think that is critical. Um and not

1725
01:13:56,560 --> 01:13:57,840
saying that you haven't already done

1726
01:13:57,840 --> 01:13:59,920
that but that would be my word of

1727
01:13:59,920 --> 01:14:02,719
caution as you're moving forward is just

1728
01:14:02,719 --> 01:14:04,880
think about

1729
01:14:04,880 --> 01:14:06,800
because it's always hard to recover from

1730
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:10,640
a loss. It's not impossible, but you

1731
01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:12,719
know, it is hard to recover from a loss

1732
01:14:12,719 --> 01:14:14,719
and then come back and be right back on

1733
01:14:14,719 --> 01:14:16,560
a ballot again.

1734
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,719
>> But aren't aren't we mischaracterizing

1735
01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:21,840
this election? You're saying it's public

1736
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,000
buildings, but it has a very strong

1737
01:14:24,000 --> 01:14:26,480
public safety component. The Gensler

1738
01:14:26,480 --> 01:14:29,199
plan included the option for a fire

1739
01:14:29,199 --> 01:14:32,239
station and I think that it's that

1740
01:14:32,239 --> 01:14:35,840
option that that will generate support

1741
01:14:35,840 --> 01:14:38,480
widespread support and it is seen as a

1742
01:14:38,480 --> 01:14:40,239
public by many people it is seen as a

1743
01:14:40,239 --> 01:14:43,280
public safety election and that should

1744
01:14:43,280 --> 01:14:46,000
be benefit us. I would think

1745
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,880
>> it can um again I've seen ballot

1746
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:51,199
measures sometimes people identifi and

1747
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:53,440
again I I recognize that there is a

1748
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:56,159
great interest in a fire station here in

1749
01:14:56,159 --> 01:14:58,960
the town um and that alone could

1750
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,679
generate interest so I'm not uh

1751
01:15:01,679 --> 01:15:04,320
disregarding that but buildings are

1752
01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:06,320
still buildings and services are still

1753
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:09,679
services and I just you know see it time

1754
01:15:09,679 --> 01:15:12,640
and time again

1755
01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:15,760
the more time you have for an open and

1756
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:17,360
transparent discussion with the

1757
01:15:17,360 --> 01:15:20,320
community about it, the better your

1758
01:15:20,320 --> 01:15:22,640
project is and the better the project

1759
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,360
is, the more willing people are because

1760
01:15:25,360 --> 01:15:27,760
ultimately you're asking them to reach

1761
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,480
into their pockets and help pay for it.

1762
01:15:30,480 --> 01:15:32,880
And so, right, they're just it's just

1763
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:35,440
part of the process to get their

1764
01:15:35,440 --> 01:15:39,280
engagement and buy in.

1765
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,480
So in in our town we have a contested

1766
01:15:42,480 --> 01:15:45,520
council election in November and very

1767
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:48,480
much this project is the core of the

1768
01:15:48,480 --> 01:15:51,760
contested election. What you know your

1769
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,800
timeline is that in November right after

1770
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:56,159
that election we're supposed to be

1771
01:15:56,159 --> 01:15:59,440
filing for this bond measure.

1772
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:03,040
Any thoughts about that?

1773
01:16:03,040 --> 01:16:06,000
Well, it's a very compressed and tight

1774
01:16:06,000 --> 01:16:08,400
timeline, and I think you'd be trying to

1775
01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:11,679
put for a March election, you'd be

1776
01:16:11,679 --> 01:16:13,520
trying to put something on the ballot

1777
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:16,400
after, again, I worry a bit about voter

1778
01:16:16,400 --> 01:16:18,880
fatigue. I worry a bit about u the

1779
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:20,719
uncertainty. You don't know what the

1780
01:16:20,719 --> 01:16:23,920
makeup of your council will be like. Um,

1781
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:28,719
those are all questions that

1782
01:16:28,719 --> 01:16:30,880
in my mind you would be better served

1783
01:16:30,880 --> 01:16:33,199
getting past this November election.

1784
01:16:33,199 --> 01:16:36,239
Ultimately, again, you know, your town.

1785
01:16:36,239 --> 01:16:39,760
I, you know, I'm trying to bring ways to

1786
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:42,400
think about this, but it seems like a

1787
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,400
very difficult time to put something on

1788
01:16:44,400 --> 01:16:48,000
the ballot after this November election.

1789
01:16:48,000 --> 01:16:50,080
>> Okay. You know, I agree completely. I I

1790
01:16:50,080 --> 01:16:51,440
mean I don't know if you know that we

1791
01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:54,239
have saved like $20 million, you know,

1792
01:16:54,239 --> 01:16:56,719
so it's not that we need the funds

1793
01:16:56,719 --> 01:16:58,320
immediately. There's not an immediate

1794
01:16:58,320 --> 01:16:59,760
rush for the funding.

1795
01:16:59,760 --> 01:17:01,520
>> It's 13.7.

1796
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:04,880
>> Okay. But we have in reserves. The town

1797
01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:06,800
is sitting on $20 million.

1798
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:09,920
>> Well, no, 13.7 is reserved for the

1799
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:13,120
facility project. Um,

1800
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:19,920
also I think to get the new people, the people who win the council election,

1801
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:22,960
to get them seated at the council, I

1802
01:17:22,960 --> 01:17:25,120
think it requires at least 30 days to

1803
01:17:25,120 --> 01:17:28,400
verify the voter count. So, they

1804
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,640
probably wouldn't even be seated until

1805
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:33,679
after the time that we would need to

1806
01:17:33,679 --> 01:17:34,960
approve,

1807
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,719
>> right?

1808
01:17:36,719 --> 01:17:39,040
30 days from election day that the

1809
01:17:39,040 --> 01:17:40,400
>> But why would that why would that

1810
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,719
matter? because this council unanimously

1811
01:17:42,719 --> 01:17:44,080
approved moving forward with the

1812
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:46,159
building and every candidate that I'm

1813
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:48,480
aware of who's running is absolutely

1814
01:17:48,480 --> 01:17:50,080
committed to getting this building

1815
01:17:50,080 --> 01:17:52,080
built. So I feel like if there's a

1816
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,560
transition on the council, the goal of

1817
01:17:54,560 --> 01:17:56,159
the building should just move forward.

1818
01:17:56,159 --> 01:17:58,159
So I don't I don't see that November is

1819
01:17:58,159 --> 01:18:00,880
a makeorb breakak date. Um I mean if

1820
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,199
there are issues needing more definition

1821
01:18:03,199 --> 01:18:05,840
of the project then my question would be

1822
01:18:05,840 --> 01:18:08,080
well can we ask Gendler to speed up some

1823
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:10,800
of their designs so we so we have the

1824
01:18:10,800 --> 01:18:13,040
def as much project you know as much

1825
01:18:13,040 --> 01:18:16,320
information as we need. Um but but I

1826
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:20,320
don't I I don't see November as as a

1827
01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:21,920
make or break time because I feel like

1828
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,600
there's there's widespread interest in

1829
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:28,239
this. this council has approved it and

1830
01:18:28,239 --> 01:18:29,840
everyone who's running wants to do it.

1831
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,760
So I don't I don't think I understand

1832
01:18:31,760 --> 01:18:34,159
why November matters.

1833
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:35,520
You know if to me it sounds seems like

1834
01:18:35,520 --> 01:18:37,280
it only matters because we need a better

1835
01:18:37,280 --> 01:18:38,960
well- definfined project. But why not

1836
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:41,679
ask Enler to move you know move forward?

1837
01:18:41,679 --> 01:18:44,719
Don't we need the money fast? I mean I I

1838
01:18:44,719 --> 01:18:46,080
thought we needed the money sooner

1839
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:46,880
rather than later.

1840
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:48,560
>> I mean there's economies of scale of

1841
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:50,560
doing everything all at once but as Matt

1842
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:52,640
points out we have all this money. So

1843
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:54,480
there could be a potential to phase

1844
01:18:54,480 --> 01:18:58,719
things and slow things down if if we if

1845
01:18:58,719 --> 01:19:02,080
we want to do that. Um,

1846
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,120
and I also think, you know, it it

1847
01:19:05,120 --> 01:19:07,440
depends the lens is going to be

1848
01:19:07,440 --> 01:19:09,280
different depending upon who is sitting

1849
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,199
here and they're going to have, you

1850
01:19:11,199 --> 01:19:12,800
know, different group edits on the

1851
01:19:12,800 --> 01:19:14,719
ballot language and there's going to be

1852
01:19:14,719 --> 01:19:17,199
I agree that every candidate supports

1853
01:19:17,199 --> 01:19:19,920
the building, but I think there each

1854
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,400
person sitting here will bring different

1855
01:19:22,400 --> 01:19:28,960
perspectives to what we're doing. So, I don't know about the timing. It's I

1856
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:30,239
think it's challenging,

1857
01:19:30,239 --> 01:19:31,760
>> but if we could have group edits.

1858
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,000
>> I don't Are we still in questions?

1859
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:34,880
>> We're in questions. Point of

1860
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:36,640
>> order. Thank you.

1861
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:39,440
>> Um

1862
01:19:39,440 --> 01:19:40,719
Christa,

1863
01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:43,040
>> may I ask a question of the consultant?

1864
01:19:43,040 --> 01:19:45,360
Um Joy, you've commented that the

1865
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:47,840
November uh date is usually a better

1866
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,400
turnout. Is there do you differentiate

1867
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:52,400
between November of an off year and

1868
01:19:52,400 --> 01:19:54,880
November of a

1869
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:55,840
>> an even year

1870
01:19:55,840 --> 01:19:56,880
>> of an even year?

1871
01:19:56,880 --> 01:19:59,920
>> Exactly. So the your your best voter

1872
01:19:59,920 --> 01:20:03,679
turnout will always be in an even year.

1873
01:20:03,679 --> 01:20:07,520
Um always uh it's just when people are

1874
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:10,800
used to voting. It doesn't mean that and

1875
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:12,560
again

1876
01:20:12,560 --> 01:20:17,920
if I just you know scatter back here

1877
01:20:17,920 --> 01:20:20,320
you know and we just look at turnout

1878
01:20:20,320 --> 01:20:23,360
right so you can you can see these

1879
01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:27,120
turnouts in different elections and you

1880
01:20:27,120 --> 01:20:30,560
can see you know in March and June the

1881
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:33,520
turnout is so much lower even in an even

1882
01:20:33,520 --> 01:20:36,320
numbered year and you'll notice that you

1883
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:39,600
don't have an odd year election

1884
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:43,360
because we just are not trained to vote

1885
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:46,320
in off years. So, it's hard for me to

1886
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,800
believe that you would It's not

1887
01:20:48,800 --> 01:20:51,360
impossible. Again, sometimes we exceed

1888
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:55,440
voter expectations through a tremendous

1889
01:20:55,440 --> 01:20:57,840
advocacy campaign. I'm talking, you

1890
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,120
know, knocking on doors, getting out,

1891
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:03,520
but you know, even your primary

1892
01:21:03,520 --> 01:21:05,760
elections here are barely getting over

1893
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:07,280
50%.

1894
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:09,600
and that's in an even numbered year. So,

1895
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:11,600
I understand the need to want to be on

1896
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:13,520
the ballot sooner because it would help

1897
01:21:13,520 --> 01:21:16,239
bring project funds earlier, but I do

1898
01:21:16,239 --> 01:21:18,560
think your turnout

1899
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:21,040
in an odd year is always going to be a

1900
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,199
challenge. So, no matter which date you

1901
01:21:23,199 --> 01:21:26,719
choose, turnout will be a piece of that.

1902
01:21:26,719 --> 01:21:28,320
>> But why would we worry about turnout?

1903
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:30,880
When we look at this, it looks like

1904
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:33,280
regardless of the time, regardless of

1905
01:21:33,280 --> 01:21:34,960
the turnout, we have very generous

1906
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:37,440
passing margins. So why are why

1907
01:21:37,440 --> 01:21:39,120
shouldn't we just be looking at what

1908
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:41,120
percentage approves of the ballot

1909
01:21:41,120 --> 01:21:43,440
measure and if we have not a very low

1910
01:21:43,440 --> 01:21:45,600
big turnout but we have a very generous

1911
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:48,080
passing margin isn't that all that

1912
01:21:48,080 --> 01:21:49,760
matters why why do we care about turnout

1913
01:21:49,760 --> 01:21:51,520
I I'm not sure that I agree with that

1914
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,520
we're supposed to be focusing on turnout

1915
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:55,920
because it seems like you know is isn't

1916
01:21:55,920 --> 01:21:58,480
that correct that even with low turnouts

1917
01:21:58,480 --> 01:22:00,800
uh and forget the 20 you know 2012 and

1918
01:22:00,800 --> 01:22:04,239
2020 with low turnouts uh the ballot

1919
01:22:04,239 --> 01:22:06,320
measures passed handily Isn't that what

1920
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:07,760
that shows?

1921
01:22:07,760 --> 01:22:10,080
>> Um, to me it shows that people care

1922
01:22:10,080 --> 01:22:12,239
deeply about public safety and paramedic

1923
01:22:12,239 --> 01:22:15,600
services. So, I I think the correlation

1924
01:22:15,600 --> 01:22:18,639
is tougher between uh the yes vote and

1925
01:22:18,639 --> 01:22:22,080
the turnout. So, I I don't disagree that

1926
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:24,320
you might have low turnout in a March

1927
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:27,280
election and be successful, but we just

1928
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,120
don't have data that shows that right

1929
01:22:29,120 --> 01:22:31,440
now. We have data that shows that voters

1930
01:22:31,440 --> 01:22:34,880
turn out lower in in the ele that are

1931
01:22:34,880 --> 01:22:38,800
not November. And we also see that

1932
01:22:38,800 --> 01:22:42,000
voters greatly value public safety and

1933
01:22:42,000 --> 01:22:44,000
paramedic services.

1934
01:22:44,000 --> 01:22:47,520
>> And and those um elections are for like

1935
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:49,280
a$1,000

1936
01:22:49,280 --> 01:22:51,679
parcel tax for public safety or they're

1937
01:22:51,679 --> 01:22:54,639
for a renewal of our paramedic

1938
01:22:54,639 --> 01:22:59,520
um tax, which is like 90 to $100. So

1939
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:01,360
this is going to be a really different

1940
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:05,440
magnitude of impact for the residents.

1941
01:23:05,440 --> 01:23:08,159
And I'm wondering if you have any data

1942
01:23:08,159 --> 01:23:11,840
where other similarly situated

1943
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:14,080
jurisdictions put something on a ballot

1944
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:17,679
on an odd year for a general obligation

1945
01:23:17,679 --> 01:23:20,000
bond and

1946
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,000
similarly situated and what was their

1947
01:23:22,000 --> 01:23:23,760
experience and maybe we can glean

1948
01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:25,360
something from that.

1949
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:27,760
>> I'm happy to look back. It's a very rare

1950
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,159
case that we see that and I I will do

1951
01:23:30,159 --> 01:23:32,560
some more research to see if I see that.

1952
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:37,199
Um it's it's because oftent times when

1953
01:23:37,199 --> 01:23:39,280
people are doing their toughest measures

1954
01:23:39,280 --> 01:23:42,159
they looked for better voter turnout. Uh

1955
01:23:42,159 --> 01:23:45,520
when you're turnout is lower

1956
01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,199
um you know you don't enjoy some of the

1957
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:51,679
benefits of a higher turnout election.

1958
01:23:51,679 --> 01:23:56,000
So, we we have been um criticized in the

1959
01:23:56,000 --> 01:24:00,000
past for putting a measure on a special

1960
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,120
ballot um by a taxpayer group and we had

1961
01:24:03,120 --> 01:24:04,880
to resend

1962
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:08,239
um the uh parcel tax renewal and move it

1963
01:24:08,239 --> 01:24:14,400
to a regular election. And they're um on their website they say

1964
01:24:14,400 --> 01:24:18,560
they oppose any special election period.

1965
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:20,560
>> Yeah. So that's something that we need

1966
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:26,550
to be aware of. Any other Christa?

1967
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:29,840
» Um I think Joy, is it correct that um

1968
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:32,080
parcel taxes and sales tax measures need

1969
01:24:32,080 --> 01:24:34,880
to be in the general election?

1970
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,159
>> Uh so uh yes, general sales tax measures

1971
01:24:38,159 --> 01:24:41,040
have to be uh on the ballot when council

1972
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:43,199
members are on the ballot. They

1973
01:24:43,199 --> 01:24:44,639
>> but not parcel taxes.

1974
01:24:44,639 --> 01:24:48,159
>> Um parcel taxes. So geo bond measures

1975
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:50,719
are very particular. Those can go on an

1976
01:24:50,719 --> 01:24:55,120
odd year election. Um I believe parcel

1977
01:24:55,120 --> 01:24:57,840
taxes are also required to be on a

1978
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,440
regularly scheduled election. Mhm. Um,

1979
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:03,280
>> so that that could explain some of the

1980
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:05,520
history here that these are all partial

1981
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:09,760
taxes, not and and um and I was also

1982
01:25:09,760 --> 01:25:13,120
curious about that issue of of um well,

1983
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,040
the fact that the town hasn't had the

1984
01:25:15,040 --> 01:25:18,320
experience of the bond of a of a geo

1985
01:25:18,320 --> 01:25:21,600
bond. Yeah, I think it's it is an

1986
01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,040
interesting question because you're

1987
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:24,960
talking about a P parcel tax which is a

1988
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:28,000
flat rate tax versus a geo bond which is

1989
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:31,360
of course a rate assessed on a 100,000

1990
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:34,480
uh per or excuse me it's a flat rate b

1991
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:37,199
or it's it's a dollar amount based on

1992
01:25:37,199 --> 01:25:40,320
per 100,000 of assessed valuation. So,

1993
01:25:40,320 --> 01:25:43,760
for example, $25 per 100 of assessed

1994
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,480
valuation. And if a home is assessed at

1995
01:25:46,480 --> 01:25:49,280
a million dollars, then right, they're

1996
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:54,400
paying 10 times the $25. So, it does

1997
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,639
have an a different emotional appeal uh

1998
01:25:56,639 --> 01:25:59,760
feel to people. Again, a project can

1999
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,880
also be very emotional. To the mayor

2000
01:26:02,880 --> 01:26:05,520
prom's point, um many people care about

2001
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:07,280
this. It is an issue that people are

2002
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,000
passionate about. I don't deny that. I'm

2003
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,159
just saying people also feel very

2004
01:26:12,159 --> 01:26:16,960
passionately about taxes right now, too.

2005
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:17,600
>> Go ahead, Matt.

2006
01:26:17,600 --> 01:26:19,679
>> So, just to to distill it down, this has

2007
01:26:19,679 --> 01:26:21,600
been a really interesting discussion.

2008
01:26:21,600 --> 01:26:23,040
So, thank you and thank you, Christa,

2009
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:25,520
for putting this on the agenda. Your

2010
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,560
best advice for pretty much generic

2011
01:26:28,560 --> 01:26:30,960
advice is being on a November election

2012
01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:33,360
during an even year is the best chance

2013
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:36,000
to get things done because the voter

2014
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:38,320
turnout is the best. And then it just

2015
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,400
goes down from there if if you don't if

2016
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,840
you can't be on an even year November.

2017
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:48,000
>> I mean actually I would say my advice is

2018
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,080
uh give yourself time to do a

2019
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:52,400
feasibility study to have an open and

2020
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,120
transparent process with your voters. I

2021
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:56,719
think that is your best chance of

2022
01:26:56,719 --> 01:26:59,920
success. I think it's possible to pass a

2023
01:26:59,920 --> 01:27:02,480
measure in an odd election year. It's

2024
01:27:02,480 --> 01:27:06,000
not impossible to do that. But voters

2025
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:09,510
will

2026
01:27:09,520 --> 01:27:11,840
struggle to support a measure that they

2027
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:14,400
feel is not well thought out. And

2028
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:16,800
>> yeah, I'm just asking about timing.

2029
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,000
That's it.

2030
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:20,239
>> Your your biggest voter participation

2031
01:27:20,239 --> 01:27:24,000
will be in November of 2028.

2032
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:26,960
It doesn't mean that single issues

2033
01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:27,600
ballot measures.

2034
01:27:27,600 --> 01:27:32,070
>> That's all my question is. Thank you.

2035
01:27:32,080 --> 01:27:33,840
» Hey, Bill, do you have any questions?

2036
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:38,790
Hearing

2037
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:40,080
none, we will

2038
01:27:40,080 --> 01:27:42,560
>> Sorry, I'm I had my audio off so I

2039
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:44,159
wouldn't disturb anyone.

2040
01:27:44,159 --> 01:27:47,040
>> No, I don't. I I I appreciate all the

2041
01:27:47,040 --> 01:27:48,960
questions I would have asked have been

2042
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:50,560
asked by the council members. So, thank

2043
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:51,679
you.

2044
01:27:51,679 --> 01:27:55,840
>> Okay. Public comment, Mr. Kuwan.

2045
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:58,400
>> Thank you, Joy. My name is Jeff Keon.

2046
01:27:58,400 --> 01:28:00,880
I'm the town treasurer.

2047
01:28:00,880 --> 01:28:04,639
So, I'm the guy who owns this problem.

2048
01:28:04,639 --> 01:28:05,600
Nice to meet you.

2049
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:09,120
>> You too. Thank you for coming.

2050
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:11,840
>> Basically, all the data you've related

2051
01:28:11,840 --> 01:28:14,320
and dealt with has been a partial tax.

2052
01:28:14,320 --> 01:28:16,480
And of course, that's not how general

2053
01:28:16,480 --> 01:28:19,199
obligation bonds work.

2054
01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:28,800
Um, nor do we have the ability or the opportunity to delay this past 2027.

2055
01:28:28,800 --> 01:28:32,080
>> It's going to happen in 2027.

2056
01:28:32,080 --> 01:28:35,679
>> Yes. So, um, as you pointed out just a

2057
01:28:35,679 --> 01:28:38,960
few minutes ago, the tax is based on the

2058
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:41,199
assessed value of the homes. There are

2059
01:28:41,199 --> 01:28:43,360
some extremely valuable homes here in

2060
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:47,280
Ross. So, the spread between high and

2061
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:51,440
low is a huge difference. High and low

2062
01:28:51,440 --> 01:28:54,800
tax. That's what I meant. So, with all,

2063
01:28:54,800 --> 01:28:57,440
pardon me, with all of that in mind,

2064
01:28:57,440 --> 01:29:01,760
does any of that change? How would you

2065
01:29:01,760 --> 01:29:03,199
would your presentation have been

2066
01:29:03,199 --> 01:29:05,199
different if you knew that this is the

2067
01:29:05,199 --> 01:29:07,600
only option we have a general obligation

2068
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:08,800
bond?

2069
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:12,080
>> Uh so so I presented the data knowing

2070
01:29:12,080 --> 01:29:14,159
that and presented the data knowing that

2071
01:29:14,159 --> 01:29:16,880
the 2027 elections were the options that

2072
01:29:16,880 --> 01:29:22,719
you were exploring. So, um, yes, and my

2073
01:29:22,719 --> 01:29:25,199
I guess if I were to fall on an ultimate

2074
01:29:25,199 --> 01:29:27,920
recommendation, I would say planning for

2075
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:30,639
enough time for community engagement is

2076
01:29:30,639 --> 01:29:32,960
what's going to increase your chances of

2077
01:29:32,960 --> 01:29:36,960
success and help you define the project.

2078
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:38,639
>> Yeah, no question about it. But we're

2079
01:29:38,639 --> 01:29:41,120
probably going to be the only issue on a

2080
01:29:41,120 --> 01:29:41,760
ballot

2081
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:44,719
>> in in 2027. Yes, that's right. I agree.

2082
01:29:44,719 --> 01:29:48,080
>> That's the point. Thank you. Anybody

2083
01:29:48,080 --> 01:29:49,760
questions from you folks about what I

2084
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:50,880
just said?

2085
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:52,800
>> Nope. Okay. Thanks, Julian.

2086
01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:54,880
>> Yeah. Let's see if there's any other

2087
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,000
public comment first. Anybody online,

2088
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:58,719
Zach?

2089
01:29:58,719 --> 01:29:59,840
>> No one online. Mayor.

2090
01:29:59,840 --> 01:30:03,120
>> Okay. Go ahead, Terry.

2091
01:30:03,120 --> 01:30:05,360
So, Joy,

2092
01:30:05,360 --> 01:30:07,679
in your opinion,

2093
01:30:07,679 --> 01:30:12,390
is March too soon?

2094
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:14,800
In your opinion, given that we need to

2095
01:30:14,800 --> 01:30:17,600
plan for community engagement, is March

2096
01:30:17,600 --> 01:30:21,760
too soon for a success?

2097
01:30:21,760 --> 01:30:24,880
If we didn't have this November and and

2098
01:30:24,880 --> 01:30:27,440
the propositions on the ballot, I would

2099
01:30:27,440 --> 01:30:31,280
say maybe there was a an opportunity to

2100
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:34,159
have good community engagement. But I am

2101
01:30:34,159 --> 01:30:37,360
concerned about the tone and tenor of

2102
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,000
this November's election and the ability

2103
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:42,480
to have a quality conversation with

2104
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:45,760
voters uh in that time period

2105
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:47,280
considering when you would have to vote

2106
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:50,000
to place this on the ballot. So it does

2107
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:52,480
feel compressed to me. I never say

2108
01:30:52,480 --> 01:30:54,080
anything's impossible. Yeah.

2109
01:30:54,080 --> 01:30:57,120
>> But it does feel compressed to me.

2110
01:30:57,120 --> 01:31:00,000
>> May a better option.

2111
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:02,159
Uh, I think it gives you more time

2112
01:31:02,159 --> 01:31:03,760
because if you're thinking about when

2113
01:31:03,760 --> 01:31:05,280
you would have to vote to put that on

2114
01:31:05,280 --> 01:31:09,679
the ballot, it actually is uh Oh, I had

2115
01:31:09,679 --> 01:31:12,000
it in the presentation, but it it

2116
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:13,920
actually is after that November

2117
01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:15,600
election. It does give you a little bit

2118
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:16,239
more time.

2119
01:31:16,239 --> 01:31:16,960
>> Okay.

2120
01:31:16,960 --> 01:31:19,920
>> So, I want to say it's in January,

2121
01:31:19,920 --> 01:31:23,510
but

2122
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:25,360
» um any further discussion? Yes,

2123
01:31:25,360 --> 01:31:27,040
Elizabeth.

2124
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:29,440
So, um, I think that it's really

2125
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:30,960
important that this go on the ballot

2126
01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:32,400
soon because I think there's a lot of

2127
01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,440
momentum with the April 29 presentation,

2128
01:31:35,440 --> 01:31:37,440
the reception of the Gensler project,

2129
01:31:37,440 --> 01:31:40,639
hiring Gensler. Um,

2130
01:31:40,639 --> 01:31:43,440
you know, March versus May isn't that

2131
01:31:43,440 --> 01:31:45,520
different. I think later than May would

2132
01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:48,639
be would be could torpedo the whole

2133
01:31:48,639 --> 01:31:50,239
project. I think we could lose interest.

2134
01:31:50,239 --> 01:31:55,199
I think people could say, you know, why aren't you moving forward? We

2135
01:31:55,199 --> 01:31:56,560
thought you had all this in line. We

2136
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,719
thought you had unanimous agreement. And

2137
01:31:58,719 --> 01:32:01,120
I think we could lose momentum and lose

2138
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:03,199
votes if we don't if we don't act

2139
01:32:03,199 --> 01:32:05,840
quickly. I mean, March or May, I think

2140
01:32:05,840 --> 01:32:08,880
they're both fine. Um, you're right

2141
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:10,880
about public engagement, though. We have

2142
01:32:10,880 --> 01:32:12,639
many meetings coming up right now and

2143
01:32:12,639 --> 01:32:14,480
the meetings are planning meetings about

2144
01:32:14,480 --> 01:32:17,920
the the um the building but they will

2145
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:20,080
serve as engaging the public so that

2146
01:32:20,080 --> 01:32:21,840
when we do talk about what the tax will

2147
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:24,719
be everyone will be will know already

2148
01:32:24,719 --> 01:32:26,159
what we're talking about. So I don't

2149
01:32:26,159 --> 01:32:28,159
think public engagement will be that

2150
01:32:28,159 --> 01:32:31,199
difficult. Um I do think you mentioned

2151
01:32:31,199 --> 01:32:33,520
public trust. Public trust is hugely

2152
01:32:33,520 --> 01:32:38,239
important. the um the 2012 uh um parcel

2153
01:32:38,239 --> 01:32:39,760
tax that failed. There were a lot of

2154
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:41,440
town politics and a lot of people were

2155
01:32:41,440 --> 01:32:44,080
unhappy and they basically said no and

2156
01:32:44,080 --> 01:32:46,560
we need and then four years later when

2157
01:32:46,560 --> 01:32:50,880
we did another tax um things had changed

2158
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:52,880
the the tone of the town had changed and

2159
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,199
that passed handily. So we do want to be

2160
01:32:55,199 --> 01:32:57,760
sure that we're moving carefully and

2161
01:32:57,760 --> 01:32:59,360
that that we're including people and

2162
01:32:59,360 --> 01:33:02,880
that there's trust. Um

2163
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:05,520
uh

2164
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,520
let's see. Um I do you know there there

2165
01:33:09,520 --> 01:33:10,880
was a mention that well we have some

2166
01:33:10,880 --> 01:33:12,719
money so we could phase this. I think

2167
01:33:12,719 --> 01:33:14,639
that we will lose ground if we phase

2168
01:33:14,639 --> 01:33:17,600
this. I think that if we start building

2169
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:19,679
uh I think we lose maybe we get a

2170
01:33:19,679 --> 01:33:21,040
paramedic station but we lose the rest

2171
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:22,320
of the building. People are going to say

2172
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:24,239
well why why vote for anything? We you

2173
01:33:24,239 --> 01:33:25,840
know we're partway there. I don't really

2174
01:33:25,840 --> 01:33:28,159
care. Whereas this is a package deal.

2175
01:33:28,159 --> 01:33:30,480
the whole the whole beautiful building

2176
01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:32,480
and it's gorgeous plus the possibility

2177
01:33:32,480 --> 01:33:34,400
of a fire station. I think that that

2178
01:33:34,400 --> 01:33:35,840
will generate a lot of votes and I think

2179
01:33:35,840 --> 01:33:37,760
if we split this up I don't quite know

2180
01:33:37,760 --> 01:33:39,840
who's going to vote for the you know the

2181
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:43,040
lower tax later on. I I I don't I think

2182
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,400
this it's better all at once. Um and I

2183
01:33:46,400 --> 01:33:47,760
don't think people want to drag out the

2184
01:33:47,760 --> 01:33:50,560
project. Um

2185
01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:54,800
see any other comments here? Um,

2186
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:57,840
oh, uh, well, we'll have to talk about

2187
01:33:57,840 --> 01:34:00,080
this. Um,

2188
01:34:00,080 --> 01:34:02,480
uh, Julia mentioned like will it be a

2189
01:34:02,480 --> 01:34:05,199
problem with cost if we have it, you

2190
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:07,280
know, at at a non-regular election. I

2191
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:09,280
think given our building needs, giving

2192
01:34:09,280 --> 01:34:12,000
given the um the interest in getting the

2193
01:34:12,000 --> 01:34:14,480
paramedic facility done on time, I I

2194
01:34:14,480 --> 01:34:16,080
don't think we have a lot of choice. I I

2195
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:17,600
don't think cost is going to say, "Oh,

2196
01:34:17,600 --> 01:34:19,600
no, you can't do it now because we have

2197
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:21,920
timelines that that tell us that we have

2198
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:24,000
to." So, I I don't think that that I

2199
01:34:24,000 --> 01:34:26,960
don't think that will be a problem. Um,

2200
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:30,159
and then you mentioned surveys. So, here

2201
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:32,639
I I really don't think that the town

2202
01:34:32,639 --> 01:34:34,719
should be doing surveys. I think that

2203
01:34:34,719 --> 01:34:36,400
especially I people are going to look at

2204
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:37,840
the cost and say, "Why are we spending

2205
01:34:37,840 --> 01:34:40,080
$30,000 for a survey?" People are going

2206
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:41,600
to look at it's kind of like the

2207
01:34:41,600 --> 01:34:43,040
slickness of it that, you know, we're

2208
01:34:43,040 --> 01:34:45,520
sort of polling people. And I think when

2209
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,280
you have a big district, so the the high

2210
01:34:47,280 --> 01:34:48,800
school district that includes Mil

2211
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:52,560
Valley, it includes um Sanelmo, Fairfax,

2212
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:55,840
the whole area, all of all of um

2213
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:57,840
southern Marin. I think that it's

2214
01:34:57,840 --> 01:34:59,120
reasonable for them to try to get a

2215
01:34:59,120 --> 01:35:00,719
sense of what do their voters think,

2216
01:35:00,719 --> 01:35:02,880
what will they approve. We've got not a

2217
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:04,560
lot of voters. Everybody goes to the

2218
01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:06,560
post office almost every day. I think we

2219
01:35:06,560 --> 01:35:07,920
have a very good feel for what people

2220
01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:09,520
are saying, what they're thinking, what

2221
01:35:09,520 --> 01:35:12,080
they will vote for. And I think it would

2222
01:35:12,080 --> 01:35:14,960
harm us more than help us to do a survey

2223
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:17,120
because I think it will be seen as, you

2224
01:35:17,120 --> 01:35:19,040
know, well, the town's hiring a

2225
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:20,800
consultant and they're spending a lot of

2226
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:22,400
money and should they really be spending

2227
01:35:22,400 --> 01:35:24,400
money on on yet another consultant

2228
01:35:24,400 --> 01:35:25,600
because we already have a lot of

2229
01:35:25,600 --> 01:35:27,679
consultants on this project and

2230
01:35:27,679 --> 01:35:30,159
certainly in the last I mean 30 years

2231
01:35:30,159 --> 01:35:32,239
that I know of there hasn't been a

2232
01:35:32,239 --> 01:35:34,159
political consultant doing a survey

2233
01:35:34,159 --> 01:35:36,400
there. We did one, you know, an in-house

2234
01:35:36,400 --> 01:35:38,239
one about the fire station, but there's

2235
01:35:38,239 --> 01:35:40,080
something about a political survey that

2236
01:35:40,080 --> 01:35:42,800
in my opinion doesn't feel right for

2237
01:35:42,800 --> 01:35:44,880
this town, and I don't think the cost

2238
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:47,840
will be well received. So, those are my

2239
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:50,719
thoughts.

2240
01:35:50,719 --> 01:35:53,760
>> Okay. Um, sort of piggybacking on you,

2241
01:35:53,760 --> 01:35:56,800
Elizabeth, I actually think trust is a

2242
01:35:56,800 --> 01:36:00,880
very important and a critical issue and

2243
01:36:00,880 --> 01:36:03,600
I think it's going to take time and I

2244
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:05,360
think we need to put the time into

2245
01:36:05,360 --> 01:36:07,679
working with the community.

2246
01:36:07,679 --> 01:36:11,280
Um, I think phase in is possible. I

2247
01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:14,320
think we have a big commitment to make

2248
01:36:14,320 --> 01:36:17,199
sure that we rebuild the build the

2249
01:36:17,199 --> 01:36:20,080
paramedic facility. Got to do it. And if

2250
01:36:20,080 --> 01:36:22,239
it meant we phased in so we got that

2251
01:36:22,239 --> 01:36:24,159
piece done in time to meet our

2252
01:36:24,159 --> 01:36:26,480
obligation, I think that's not a bad

2253
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:29,760
thing to do. So I wouldn't I wouldn't

2254
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:34,239
rule out phasing in this project. Um it

2255
01:36:34,239 --> 01:36:35,920
may end up costing us a little more

2256
01:36:35,920 --> 01:36:38,239
money to do it, but I think if it was

2257
01:36:38,239 --> 01:36:40,320
way for us to also honor our obligation

2258
01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:42,159
to the paramedics, I think it's worth

2259
01:36:42,159 --> 01:36:46,719
it. So, um, and as for a survey,

2260
01:36:46,719 --> 01:36:49,040
I was sort of on the fence, but I think

2261
01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:50,960
the survey would give us a little more

2262
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:53,920
information than we currently have now.

2263
01:36:53,920 --> 01:36:56,239
Um, and

2264
01:36:56,239 --> 01:36:59,040
uh, I I actually would be curious as to

2265
01:36:59,040 --> 01:37:01,440
the results of that survey about where

2266
01:37:01,440 --> 01:37:04,560
people are with the civic center and why

2267
01:37:04,560 --> 01:37:06,960
they want that civic center and why it

2268
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:10,320
would be important to them. So, I I

2269
01:37:10,320 --> 01:37:13,440
think it's worth the money, but I worry

2270
01:37:13,440 --> 01:37:19,109
about the time. So, there we go.

2271
01:37:19,119 --> 01:37:21,119
» Well, I I would say the first thing is

2272
01:37:21,119 --> 01:37:24,000
that we act as if the civic center is

2273
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:25,520
going to actually like we're going to

2274
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:26,719
design this plan and they're going to

2275
01:37:26,719 --> 01:37:29,679
start shoveling. We have so much time

2276
01:37:29,679 --> 01:37:33,840
because we don't even have a plan yet

2277
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:35,840
and I can't even imagine going to the

2278
01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,639
voters in March or May because we we you

2279
01:37:38,639 --> 01:37:40,400
know we we we're at the beginning stages

2280
01:37:40,400 --> 01:37:42,960
of this process and then there'll be an

2281
01:37:42,960 --> 01:37:44,480
environmental study and just seeing

2282
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:48,080
what's going on with our um Bolina storm

2283
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:49,920
drain where they discovered Indian

2284
01:37:49,920 --> 01:37:53,040
remains and it's slowing the project. So

2285
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:55,520
there's just a lot of time. I think

2286
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:57,520
we're excited which is great and we all

2287
01:37:57,520 --> 01:37:59,679
want to do this but but there is time

2288
01:37:59,679 --> 01:38:02,560
and we have thankfully saved 13 million

2289
01:38:02,560 --> 01:38:05,360
in the capital projects. We also have 7

2290
01:38:05,360 --> 01:38:07,280
million of extra reserves. We have a lot

2291
01:38:07,280 --> 01:38:09,679
of cash sitting on hand. So it's not

2292
01:38:09,679 --> 01:38:11,520
that we couldn't spend money on the

2293
01:38:11,520 --> 01:38:13,520
project and continue to move it forward.

2294
01:38:13,520 --> 01:38:15,600
We have the money. We're so fortunate to

2295
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:18,080
have the money. The bond is really going

2296
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:20,960
to the public to get their blessing that

2297
01:38:20,960 --> 01:38:23,040
this is the right course. We will know

2298
01:38:23,040 --> 01:38:25,119
that in November because we have an

2299
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:27,840
election for a new council. I'm I the

2300
01:38:27,840 --> 01:38:29,920
survey is fine. I I I love hearing from

2301
01:38:29,920 --> 01:38:31,679
the people, but we will hear from them

2302
01:38:31,679 --> 01:38:33,520
in November. There'll be a campaign and

2303
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:35,280
there's going to be four there's four

2304
01:38:35,280 --> 01:38:37,280
candidates for two positions. And so we

2305
01:38:37,280 --> 01:38:39,119
will actually hear what the candidates

2306
01:38:39,119 --> 01:38:41,199
say and what the people want. And I

2307
01:38:41,199 --> 01:38:42,480
think that's going to be telling for

2308
01:38:42,480 --> 01:38:44,080
what sort of project they really are

2309
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,360
supporting. And so once that is done,

2310
01:38:47,360 --> 01:38:49,440
then I think and you have a new council

2311
01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:53,920
seated, then you can start building the trust and the outreach for why this

2312
01:38:53,920 --> 01:38:55,360
project matters and what you want to

2313
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,360
build. So I don't think this needs to be

2314
01:38:57,360 --> 01:38:59,040
decided tonight. I don't I think the

2315
01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:01,280
presentation is very informative, but I

2316
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:03,920
don't see any hurry to rush to try to

2317
01:39:03,920 --> 01:39:05,520
pass a bond measure. I think a bond

2318
01:39:05,520 --> 01:39:08,239
measure is going to fail because there's

2319
01:39:08,239 --> 01:39:11,920
been so much um information out in the

2320
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:13,600
public on both sides and this issue has

2321
01:39:13,600 --> 01:39:15,520
been very contentious. It's almost

2322
01:39:15,520 --> 01:39:17,840
better to wait and hopefully let this

2323
01:39:17,840 --> 01:39:20,719
November pass and let the people speak

2324
01:39:20,719 --> 01:39:23,280
and let the town and the the sort of

2325
01:39:23,280 --> 01:39:25,840
opposition fade away because the

2326
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:28,000
opposition is there. We just we don't

2327
01:39:28,000 --> 01:39:30,159
have a set project even to even think

2328
01:39:30,159 --> 01:39:32,239
about at this point or vote on or send

2329
01:39:32,239 --> 01:39:34,159
to our voters and certainly we won't

2330
01:39:34,159 --> 01:39:38,000
have the clarity we need in November.

2331
01:39:38,000 --> 01:39:40,560
>> Bill comments.

2332
01:39:40,560 --> 01:39:43,119
>> Well, I

2333
01:39:43,119 --> 01:39:45,199
you know I I I've listened carefully to

2334
01:39:45,199 --> 01:39:47,040
the presentation. I think it's a lot of

2335
01:39:47,040 --> 01:39:50,239
interesting information.

2336
01:39:50,239 --> 01:39:52,719
Uh and it's a lot to think about and a

2337
01:39:52,719 --> 01:39:55,040
lot to process.

2338
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,679
But I will say overall

2339
01:39:57,679 --> 01:40:01,280
I think that um I'm beginning to think

2340
01:40:01,280 --> 01:40:03,119
getting something passed in March would

2341
01:40:03,119 --> 01:40:05,840
be very difficult to get to do all the

2342
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:09,600
things we need to do and let the let

2343
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:12,159
this project well I think the term was

2344
01:40:12,159 --> 01:40:15,520
mature a bit more. We're we're we're

2345
01:40:15,520 --> 01:40:19,600
moving ahead as quickly as we can but um

2346
01:40:19,600 --> 01:40:20,960
there's so much that would have to

2347
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:22,480
happen in that time frame. The other

2348
01:40:22,480 --> 01:40:24,239
thing that really impressed me about the

2349
01:40:24,239 --> 01:40:26,560
presentation was

2350
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:28,080
this the fact that there are a lot of

2351
01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,239
ballot measures on the November ballot

2352
01:40:30,239 --> 01:40:33,679
that do involve taxes and ancillary

2353
01:40:33,679 --> 01:40:35,360
considerations

2354
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:39,119
and there may be a bit of public u well

2355
01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:41,199
I don't know a residue from that that

2356
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:44,080
may complicate what we're trying to do.

2357
01:40:44,080 --> 01:40:46,560
On the other hand, uh this idea of just

2358
01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:50,560
mail-in only elections in May or August,

2359
01:40:50,560 --> 01:40:55,600
I I I'm not so sure about that one. Um

2360
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:58,239
that would be um that would be low

2361
01:40:58,239 --> 01:41:00,880
turnout, particularly August.

2362
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:04,880
So anyway, my thoughts again, I don't I I I would need some time to think

2363
01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:06,000
about this, but those are my

2364
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,400
impressions.

2365
01:41:08,400 --> 01:41:11,119
>> Yeah. And my Julie, can I ask you a

2366
01:41:11,119 --> 01:41:12,960
question first? after after everyone

2367
01:41:12,960 --> 01:41:15,440
speaks, can we share comments about

2368
01:41:15,440 --> 01:41:18,550
comments,

2369
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:20,719
let me just, you know, just offer a few

2370
01:41:20,719 --> 01:41:22,159
additional comments about what each of

2371
01:41:22,159 --> 01:41:24,080
us said because we're listening to each

2372
01:41:24,080 --> 01:41:27,280
other's comments and thinking about what we said.

2373
01:41:27,280 --> 01:41:28,400
>> As long as we don't have to have

2374
01:41:28,400 --> 01:41:28,880
comments.

2375
01:41:28,880 --> 01:41:30,239
>> Well, and I'm sorry, we don't need to

2376
01:41:30,239 --> 01:41:32,239
decide anything. This isn't this is a no

2377
01:41:32,239 --> 01:41:34,000
action item. I just want to make that

2378
01:41:34,000 --> 01:41:34,480
clear.

2379
01:41:34,480 --> 01:41:36,320
>> Yeah. And that was going to be my

2380
01:41:36,320 --> 01:41:38,960
question, Christa. When do we I mean

2381
01:41:38,960 --> 01:41:42,159
there's that chart with those three, you

2382
01:41:42,159 --> 01:41:44,480
know, blue arrows and then the yellow

2383
01:41:44,480 --> 01:41:47,040
arrow. That chart really kind of scared

2384
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:49,199
me because there's so much that has to

2385
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:55,920
happen between now and May, March. Um

2386
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:58,639
so what what are we doing here tonight?

2387
01:41:58,639 --> 01:42:00,960
So this item is on the agenda just as a

2388
01:42:00,960 --> 01:42:03,119
presentation and an education, an

2389
01:42:03,119 --> 01:42:04,560
opportunity for you to ask questions

2390
01:42:04,560 --> 01:42:07,760
which you have. Um,

2391
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:10,239
keeping in mind though that that chart

2392
01:42:10,239 --> 01:42:12,880
that you just described is, you know,

2393
01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:14,560
what I've heard from the council these

2394
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:17,520
past months of regular meetings and

2395
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:19,440
special meetings and late additions to

2396
01:42:19,440 --> 01:42:22,639
the meetings has been we got to do this

2397
01:42:22,639 --> 01:42:23,760
because it has to be on the March

2398
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:25,280
agenda. March agenda, March agenda. I

2399
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:27,199
mean, really, that's what the council

2400
01:42:27,199 --> 01:42:32,480
has been saying loud and clear over and over again. So when I look at

2401
01:42:32,480 --> 01:42:35,280
that that chart and it says, you know,

2402
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:37,840
we if we want to be doing if if the

2403
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:39,280
council wants to I didn't hear what

2404
01:42:39,280 --> 01:42:41,280
council member Kercher what his thoughts

2405
01:42:41,280 --> 01:42:44,480
are about um serving, but if the

2406
01:42:44,480 --> 01:42:46,400
consensus of the council is there's an

2407
01:42:46,400 --> 01:42:48,719
interest in serving, we need to be doing

2408
01:42:48,719 --> 01:42:50,880
that now. And it's I need to be bringing

2409
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:54,080
back to the council a proposal to do

2410
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,560
surveying. and having done it um with a

2411
01:42:56,560 --> 01:42:59,760
council subcommittee at a previous um in

2412
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:03,280
a previous employment. it putting

2413
01:43:03,280 --> 01:43:06,239
together the survey can be very it took

2414
01:43:06,239 --> 01:43:08,560
many subcommittee meetings and um part

2415
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:10,239
of it was because the council wanted to

2416
01:43:10,239 --> 01:43:12,320
utilize the survey instrument to ask

2417
01:43:12,320 --> 01:43:14,639
other questions like do people want to

2418
01:43:14,639 --> 01:43:17,600
have a no smoking ban so it could grow

2419
01:43:17,600 --> 01:43:20,320
right so it's it's doing a survey is a

2420
01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:23,440
project itself so doing the project

2421
01:43:23,440 --> 01:43:25,600
along with all the other things and then

2422
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:27,600
remember we are on we already in week

2423
01:43:27,600 --> 01:43:31,760
one of a 12week uh amendment process

2424
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:34,239
that I'm very concerned about our

2425
01:43:34,239 --> 01:43:36,000
ability to do all that and I would need

2426
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:39,199
to be working with Joy and our team on a

2427
01:43:39,199 --> 01:43:41,679
survey like like now to bring it back to

2428
01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:43,840
the council on September 10th. So that

2429
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:46,960
that's I I I'm interested in direction

2430
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,520
on that particular topic but again I'm

2431
01:43:49,520 --> 01:43:51,199
not sure how much direction you can give

2432
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:53,119
me tonight. Um I would have to look to

2433
01:43:53,119 --> 01:43:57,510
the turnon for that.

2434
01:43:57,520 --> 01:43:59,600
» Could I comment on the the survey? I

2435
01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,000
didn't, as town manager mentioned, I

2436
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:05,119
didn't didn't say anything about that.

2437
01:44:05,119 --> 01:44:08,080
>> Um,

2438
01:44:08,080 --> 01:44:09,280
can you hear me?

2439
01:44:09,280 --> 01:44:10,239
>> Yeah. Go ahead, Bill.

2440
01:44:10,239 --> 01:44:12,960
>> It's okay. All right. You know, we did a

2441
01:44:12,960 --> 01:44:15,119
survey with regard to the closing of the

2442
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:16,800
firehouse

2443
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:19,119
and there's been so much controversy

2444
01:44:19,119 --> 01:44:20,719
about that survey. Was it complete

2445
01:44:20,719 --> 01:44:22,560
enough? Did we have a big big enough

2446
01:44:22,560 --> 01:44:24,960
sample? And that was something just the

2447
01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:27,119
town manager put together as I recall.

2448
01:44:27,119 --> 01:44:28,880
But we we we're still talk we were

2449
01:44:28,880 --> 01:44:31,280
talking about it till fairly recently.

2450
01:44:31,280 --> 01:44:33,520
So as Christa said, I mean this is

2451
01:44:33,520 --> 01:44:36,159
something that takes some time to do and

2452
01:44:36,159 --> 01:44:38,159
it would take a time some time to get

2453
01:44:38,159 --> 01:44:39,760
agreement if there was agreement on how

2454
01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:42,159
it was phrased because you do want the

2455
01:44:42,159 --> 01:44:44,560
answers to be meaningful

2456
01:44:44,560 --> 01:44:47,600
and and so I I think you know

2457
01:44:47,600 --> 01:44:50,000
particularly in a compressed time frame

2458
01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:52,080
I don't see the survey as being that

2459
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:54,480
doable or that helpful. It might be a

2460
01:44:54,480 --> 01:44:56,560
distraction from other things. our focus

2461
01:44:56,560 --> 01:44:59,360
on making decisions as this goes along

2462
01:44:59,360 --> 01:45:02,480
about about the the what the the Gendler

2463
01:45:02,480 --> 01:45:09,830
firm is doing.

2464
01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:14,639
» Uh um yeah, I I agree with you, Bill. Um

2465
01:45:14,639 --> 01:45:16,800
I mean, I feel like all of this it's

2466
01:45:16,800 --> 01:45:20,159
helpful to have some information. What does March look like? What does May

2467
01:45:20,159 --> 01:45:22,639
look like? But I think I feel like we're

2468
01:45:22,639 --> 01:45:25,360
starting to stray away from, you know,

2469
01:45:25,360 --> 01:45:29,040
the the Gensler CAC plan that we heard

2470
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:31,199
about in April. That was, you know, a

2471
01:45:31,199 --> 01:45:32,960
really good plan that we all wanted to

2472
01:45:32,960 --> 01:45:35,040
move forward on. And I get that this is

2473
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:37,679
about uh the steps to move forward. But

2474
01:45:37,679 --> 01:45:39,280
I think we have to be careful we don't

2475
01:45:39,280 --> 01:45:41,360
make so many steps that we're losing the

2476
01:45:41,360 --> 01:45:44,400
momentum that we had on April 29. I I

2477
01:45:44,400 --> 01:45:46,239
have one question. Um I thought it

2478
01:45:46,239 --> 01:45:48,000
wasn't even possible to phase because

2479
01:45:48,000 --> 01:45:50,159
it's a, you know, a big building. So is

2480
01:45:50,159 --> 01:45:53,360
that can I ask Dan you know what how

2481
01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:55,760
would that work? Can this be phased and

2482
01:45:55,760 --> 01:45:57,280
still get the same building? I thought

2483
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:01,199
that the earlier concept E was phasable

2484
01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:03,360
but I thought that this one wasn't. So I

2485
01:46:03,360 --> 01:46:08,239
that's a question. Can can Dan answer? I

2486
01:46:08,239 --> 01:46:11,280
um I would like to take a stab at that.

2487
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:14,320
Okay. So the scope of work for our

2488
01:46:14,320 --> 01:46:17,920
consultant team Gendler includes um

2489
01:46:17,920 --> 01:46:21,600
evaluation of phasing.

2490
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:24,719
So this is going to be this is that that

2491
01:46:24,719 --> 01:46:28,320
issue is going to be evaluated during

2492
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:30,880
this plan amendment process.

2493
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:32,560
>> Can I ask Dan's opinion?

2494
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:34,560
>> But Dan is you well I'm saying Dan is

2495
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:37,679
not part of the Gendler project team. So

2496
01:46:37,679 --> 01:46:40,560
I can tell you that the Gendler project

2497
01:46:40,560 --> 01:46:43,199
team has assured me and it's in their

2498
01:46:43,199 --> 01:46:45,360
scope of work. It was in the request for

2499
01:46:45,360 --> 01:46:47,760
proposals and it is in their contract to

2500
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:50,480
perform that.

2501
01:46:50,480 --> 01:46:53,040
Okay. Um

2502
01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:54,800
then back to the just your comments

2503
01:46:54,800 --> 01:46:56,480
about November the election that

2504
01:46:56,480 --> 01:46:58,639
there'll be a you know we we need to see

2505
01:46:58,639 --> 01:47:01,440
where we're going. Again, I I maybe I'm

2506
01:47:01,440 --> 01:47:03,360
more optimistic, but I feel like there's

2507
01:47:03,360 --> 01:47:06,080
a great deal of support for this, for

2508
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:07,679
moving forward with this, whatever the

2509
01:47:07,679 --> 01:47:09,360
steps are, and that there's not any

2510
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:11,199
change in November, because there's not

2511
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:12,880
a single candidate who doesn't agree

2512
01:47:12,880 --> 01:47:14,239
that we should move forward with this.

2513
01:47:14,239 --> 01:47:17,360
So, I I don't see that this is uh I

2514
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:22,560
mean, there may be some issues about how um focused are you on building a

2515
01:47:22,560 --> 01:47:24,080
fire station, but that's not really the

2516
01:47:24,080 --> 01:47:25,920
building plan. The building plan is to

2517
01:47:25,920 --> 01:47:28,000
get this built. So I don't see that

2518
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:30,639
November is a is a turning point. I

2519
01:47:30,639 --> 01:47:32,159
think the turning point was April with

2520
01:47:32,159 --> 01:47:35,520
the very beautiful Gendler CAC plan and

2521
01:47:35,520 --> 01:47:37,520
that we should stay on track with that

2522
01:47:37,520 --> 01:47:39,600
and not take too many steps to get it

2523
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:42,709
going.

2524
01:47:42,719 --> 01:47:46,080
I I guess my I I think I would like to

2525
01:47:46,080 --> 01:47:50,080
have like a critical path schedule of

2526
01:47:50,080 --> 01:47:54,000
November November of 2027,

2527
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,760
August, May, and March and all the stuff

2528
01:47:57,760 --> 01:48:01,040
that needs to happen to lead up to each

2529
01:48:01,040 --> 01:48:04,159
of those dates to see, you know, this is

2530
01:48:04,159 --> 01:48:06,400
a huge component of all of that, but

2531
01:48:06,400 --> 01:48:10,159
there's so many other lines like, you

2532
01:48:10,159 --> 01:48:11,360
know, the environment enironmental

2533
01:48:11,360 --> 01:48:14,159
stuff, the the description of the

2534
01:48:14,159 --> 01:48:17,920
project, um the cost estimate, the bond

2535
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:20,080
council. I mean, it's just layers and

2536
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:23,119
layers of complexity. Um, and so I think

2537
01:48:23,119 --> 01:48:25,360
it would help me. I don't know if it

2538
01:48:25,360 --> 01:48:27,119
would help other people, but I think it

2539
01:48:27,119 --> 01:48:34,000
would help to what Richard Hanam said a few weeks ago, take the end date. And

2540
01:48:34,000 --> 01:48:36,080
now, unfortunately, there's like four

2541
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:39,440
end dates and move back and see, you

2542
01:48:39,440 --> 01:48:42,480
know, is is it feasible to get to a

2543
01:48:42,480 --> 01:48:44,400
March election date?

2544
01:48:44,400 --> 01:48:47,440
>> That chart scares me. Is it feasible to

2545
01:48:47,440 --> 01:48:49,760
get to a May 4th election date? You

2546
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:52,560
know, hopefully it is. Um, I don't think

2547
01:48:52,560 --> 01:48:54,880
we want to be in a position where we're,

2548
01:48:54,880 --> 01:48:57,040
you know, spending money that we may not

2549
01:48:57,040 --> 01:48:59,280
have. I think that we need to have

2550
01:48:59,280 --> 01:49:02,320
certainty with having a a bond passed if

2551
01:49:02,320 --> 01:49:03,600
we're going to do the whole project. If

2552
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:05,679
we're going to phase it, then we can dip

2553
01:49:05,679 --> 01:49:08,159
into that 13.9

2554
01:49:08,159 --> 01:49:11,280
or whatever it is. Um,

2555
01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:14,400
but it I think maybe start at the end

2556
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:16,480
and kind of move back in terms of the

2557
01:49:16,480 --> 01:49:18,800
election and and then there's the

2558
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:21,280
penultimate date of the, you know, the

2559
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:23,679
January 1st, 2029 delivery of the

2560
01:49:23,679 --> 01:49:28,320
paramedic facility. I mean, that's the key. That's the most

2561
01:49:28,320 --> 01:49:31,280
important thing. Um, and I don't know if

2562
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:34,480
we have capacity within if David could

2563
01:49:34,480 --> 01:49:38,000
help do that. Um, I think that would be

2564
01:49:38,000 --> 01:49:40,719
helpful. And then are we gonna bring

2565
01:49:40,719 --> 01:49:43,760
this matter back in a month or two to

2566
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:46,239
continue discussing or how how do we

2567
01:49:46,239 --> 01:49:48,960
move forward from here?

2568
01:49:48,960 --> 01:49:51,119
>> Well, I I there's I what I'm hearing

2569
01:49:51,119 --> 01:49:52,560
this evening, there's not consensus of

2570
01:49:52,560 --> 01:49:53,920
the council to go forward with the

2571
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:56,159
survey. So, that's good direction for

2572
01:49:56,159 --> 01:49:58,239
me, at least at this time. So, that's

2573
01:49:58,239 --> 01:50:03,520
good direction for me. Um, and we we've

2574
01:50:03,520 --> 01:50:06,080
I've engaged the services of Joyy's firm

2575
01:50:06,080 --> 01:50:08,560
to help us with this. And it's uh, you

2576
01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,800
know, it's a it's a monthly fee. So, we pay we use it where how much I could

2577
01:50:12,800 --> 01:50:14,880
call her every day.

2578
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:20,480
>> She could come to meetings here every day if we needed it, right? Um, so

2579
01:50:20,480 --> 01:50:22,320
we need to just we need to be moving

2580
01:50:22,320 --> 01:50:24,320
forward. I mean, we have a deadline

2581
01:50:24,320 --> 01:50:26,159
today. Our first deadline with Gendler,

2582
01:50:26,159 --> 01:50:27,679
our contract started a week ago. Our

2583
01:50:27,679 --> 01:50:29,679
first deadline, staff deadline was

2584
01:50:29,679 --> 01:50:32,560
today. And so, um, we need to be moving

2585
01:50:32,560 --> 01:50:36,080
this forward to to meet that 12week. And

2586
01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:39,119
for me, it's the most important thing

2587
01:50:39,119 --> 01:50:40,800
are the council decisions that are going

2588
01:50:40,800 --> 01:50:43,600
to have to take place. That is what is

2589
01:50:43,600 --> 01:50:45,840
driving is going to drive this this

2590
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:48,480
project. Are you going to be able to

2591
01:50:48,480 --> 01:50:52,239
make decisions to provide direction to

2592
01:50:52,239 --> 01:50:54,000
your staff team and your consultant

2593
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:56,719
team?

2594
01:50:56,719 --> 01:50:59,360
much. So, as as for this, we we have an

2595
01:50:59,360 --> 01:51:02,639
agreement with um Joy and her firm, and

2596
01:51:02,639 --> 01:51:04,960
we will continue. We uh David and I have

2597
01:51:04,960 --> 01:51:06,800
a meeting scheduled, and we'll probably

2598
01:51:06,800 --> 01:51:09,360
be including Joy with our U municipal

2599
01:51:09,360 --> 01:51:12,960
financial advisor. Um I'd like to have

2600
01:51:12,960 --> 01:51:14,480
it would be good to have more feedback.

2601
01:51:14,480 --> 01:51:18,159
I I I hadn't heard from council member

2602
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:21,119
that he was not as much of a um emphatic

2603
01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:23,520
about that march about doing a march

2604
01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:25,760
batlet. So, I think that alone was

2605
01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:28,000
really useful for me and our team to

2606
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,199
hear um that maybe there's some little

2607
01:51:31,199 --> 01:51:35,600
more flexibility in that March date. So,

2608
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:37,920
the good news is we have meetings with

2609
01:51:37,920 --> 01:51:41,119
the council every two weeks so we can

2610
01:51:41,119 --> 01:51:42,960
bring something back.

2611
01:51:42,960 --> 01:51:47,440
>> Yippee. That's good news for you.

2612
01:51:47,440 --> 01:51:50,239
>> Okay. Any Terry? I just wanted to say I

2613
01:51:50,239 --> 01:51:53,440
for me I don't want anything to derail

2614
01:51:53,440 --> 01:51:56,400
the staff over the next 12 weeks. The

2615
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:58,719
next 12 weeks are really important.

2616
01:51:58,719 --> 01:52:00,880
We've got a contract. We've got work we

2617
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:04,239
have to do. Uh Gendler is got work they

2618
01:52:04,239 --> 01:52:06,560
have to do. That should be our top

2619
01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:08,159
priority.

2620
01:52:08,159 --> 01:52:11,119
And fitting in the work with joy is

2621
01:52:11,119 --> 01:52:12,639
great,

2622
01:52:12,639 --> 01:52:15,360
but it can't derail those 12 weeks of

2623
01:52:15,360 --> 01:52:19,750
the work that has to be done.

2624
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:21,920
I think the the most important thing is

2625
01:52:21,920 --> 01:52:24,800
that we can pass the bond measure,

2626
01:52:24,800 --> 01:52:27,520
right? So that in order to pass the bond

2627
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:31,199
measure, we need a fully baked plan that

2628
01:52:31,199 --> 01:52:33,119
everyone is behind that the community

2629
01:52:33,119 --> 01:52:35,679
understands and supports and that we can

2630
01:52:35,679 --> 01:52:38,000
get the engagement with. We're nowhere

2631
01:52:38,000 --> 01:52:40,560
near that. We we it's impossible at this

2632
01:52:40,560 --> 01:52:42,880
moment even to contemplate that at this

2633
01:52:42,880 --> 01:52:45,119
moment at this juncture. So, I think we

2634
01:52:45,119 --> 01:52:47,440
just need to be realistic that trying to

2635
01:52:47,440 --> 01:52:49,440
push for something that doesn't exist is

2636
01:52:49,440 --> 01:52:50,960
not going to make it all of a sudden

2637
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:54,080
exist. I think we are all excited about

2638
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,480
the project and moving forward and it's

2639
01:52:56,480 --> 01:52:58,719
very the that there we're meeting every

2640
01:52:58,719 --> 01:53:00,480
week for 12 weeks. So, it's not that

2641
01:53:00,480 --> 01:53:02,480
we're not moving forward, but we the

2642
01:53:02,480 --> 01:53:04,639
idea of a political process is to get it

2643
01:53:04,639 --> 01:53:08,320
passed. We need to get 66%. How do we

2644
01:53:08,320 --> 01:53:10,320
get that? And I would that is what you

2645
01:53:10,320 --> 01:53:12,400
need to work on is we now have enough

2646
01:53:12,400 --> 01:53:14,320
information to sell the public that

2647
01:53:14,320 --> 01:53:16,000
we've the community we've all come

2648
01:53:16,000 --> 01:53:18,080
together and we have a great plan. We're

2649
01:53:18,080 --> 01:53:21,599
just not there yet.

2650
01:53:21,599 --> 01:53:24,480
>> And I'll just add and maybe I shouldn't

2651
01:53:24,480 --> 01:53:26,480
but I will. But I I think the public

2652
01:53:26,480 --> 01:53:30,320
trust component is huge and I think the

2653
01:53:30,320 --> 01:53:33,199
um there's aspects of the community that

2654
01:53:33,199 --> 01:53:35,760
are pretty divided right now. And I

2655
01:53:35,760 --> 01:53:38,719
think the um November 3rd election is

2656
01:53:38,719 --> 01:53:40,560
just going to divide the community even

2657
01:53:40,560 --> 01:53:43,679
more. So I think knowing that and having

2658
01:53:43,679 --> 01:53:45,760
something on the heels of a pretty

2659
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:48,880
divisive town council election is

2660
01:53:48,880 --> 01:53:52,320
probably not great timing. And Elizabeth

2661
01:53:52,320 --> 01:53:56,000
and I worked on a school bond measure um

2662
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:01,599
that failed um in I think it was 2004.

2663
01:54:01,599 --> 01:54:05,679
Um, and it just took a tiny tiny bit of

2664
01:54:05,679 --> 01:54:08,560
opponents to derail that. And it wasn't

2665
01:54:08,560 --> 01:54:10,960
many, and you know, we had drunk the

2666
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:13,440
Kool-Aid, but we really thought it was

2667
01:54:13,440 --> 01:54:16,000
going to pass and it didn't. Um, we got

2668
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:20,639
59%. Um, and it took a long time for the

2669
01:54:20,639 --> 01:54:25,440
community to heal and pivot and readress

2670
01:54:25,440 --> 01:54:28,800
those needs. Um, we had a silver lining

2671
01:54:28,800 --> 01:54:31,920
with a flood, so that helped. Um, but we

2672
01:54:31,920 --> 01:54:34,320
don't we we don't want to do this twice.

2673
01:54:34,320 --> 01:54:37,360
We have to do it well and successfully

2674
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:39,199
one time.

2675
01:54:39,199 --> 01:54:40,880
So,

2676
01:54:40,880 --> 01:54:43,440
yeah. Excuse me, mayor. I'm sorry. I

2677
01:54:43,440 --> 01:54:45,520
didn't catch Did you Were you interested

2678
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:47,119
in the survey now?

2679
01:54:47,119 --> 01:54:48,639
>> Oh, I didn't know pine about that. I

2680
01:54:48,639 --> 01:54:49,679
thought I was getting away with not

2681
01:54:49,679 --> 01:54:50,239
opining.

2682
01:54:50,239 --> 01:54:51,760
>> Well, I was looking at my notes here and

2683
01:54:51,760 --> 01:54:55,920
I I have two yeses and two nos. So I

2684
01:54:55,920 --> 01:55:01,840
>> um I think if the survey helps inform the

2685
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:03,520
ballot language for the general

2686
01:55:03,520 --> 01:55:06,159
obligation bond um then I would be more

2687
01:55:06,159 --> 01:55:09,920
inclined to do that. Um but I think the

2688
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:11,599
timing of the survey would be important.

2689
01:55:11,599 --> 01:55:13,679
I think there would need to be distance.

2690
01:55:13,679 --> 01:55:15,679
You know, I hadn't appreciated all these

2691
01:55:15,679 --> 01:55:17,280
other things that are going to be going

2692
01:55:17,280 --> 01:55:19,679
on the November ballot and the voter

2693
01:55:19,679 --> 01:55:22,320
fatigue and people are going to be sick

2694
01:55:22,320 --> 01:55:24,880
of dealing with elections for a while

2695
01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:28,080
and these issues. So, I think the timing

2696
01:55:28,080 --> 01:55:30,080
of the survey would be important.

2697
01:55:30,080 --> 01:55:32,080
>> Okay. So, we can bring we can something

2698
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:34,400
the council can continue to to discuss

2699
01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:36,480
as the we go further along on this

2700
01:55:36,480 --> 01:55:37,760
process.

2701
01:55:37,760 --> 01:55:39,679
>> Ballot ballot language not isn't that

2702
01:55:39,679 --> 01:55:40,880
hard. I mean, we'll want to work

2703
01:55:40,880 --> 01:55:42,719
together on ballot language and the

2704
01:55:42,719 --> 01:55:45,199
ballot argument, but I don't see that as

2705
01:55:45,199 --> 01:55:49,760
something that we need a survey for, but

2706
01:55:49,760 --> 01:55:51,119
>> well, I think I guess I don't know. I

2707
01:55:51,119 --> 01:55:52,800
guess I don't quite understand what how

2708
01:55:52,800 --> 01:55:55,440
a survey helps us pass the bond. I see

2709
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:58,159
where trust and information one-on-one

2710
01:55:58,159 --> 01:56:00,639
outreach helps us pass the bond measure.

2711
01:56:00,639 --> 01:56:03,119
I don't quite see how a survey does, but

2712
01:56:03,119 --> 01:56:05,760
I I already came out saying that's

2713
01:56:05,760 --> 01:56:08,800
>> we don't have to decide tonight. So um

2714
01:56:08,800 --> 01:56:11,440
and this was really really helpful. So

2715
01:56:11,440 --> 01:56:13,760
thank you very much for organizing and

2716
01:56:13,760 --> 01:56:16,239
for being here really illuminating.

2717
01:56:16,239 --> 01:56:21,669
Thank you.

2718
01:56:21,679 --> 01:56:24,639
» Okay. Now we are moving on to item

2719
01:56:24,639 --> 01:56:28,320
number 11. town council to receive a

2720
01:56:28,320 --> 01:56:30,320
presentation, provide direction to staff

2721
01:56:30,320 --> 01:56:32,080
on the scope and priorities for the

2722
01:56:32,080 --> 01:56:34,639
general plan update and consider

2723
01:56:34,639 --> 01:56:36,719
authorizing staff to initiate a request

2724
01:56:36,719 --> 01:56:40,480
for proposal RFP for consultant services

2725
01:56:40,480 --> 01:56:43,520
to assist with the general plan update.

2726
01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:44,960
Robera,

2727
01:56:44,960 --> 01:56:47,679
>> good evening mayor and council members.

2728
01:56:47,679 --> 01:56:51,760
So, if you recall in the August 2025

2729
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:55,040
meeting last year, I presented a similar

2730
01:56:55,040 --> 01:56:58,000
item. It's really just a presentation to

2731
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:01,360
let you know that the current general

2732
01:57:01,360 --> 01:57:03,520
plan has passed its horizon. It was

2733
01:57:03,520 --> 01:57:07,920
adopted in 2007 and it had an horizon to

2734
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:11,840
2025 which was last year. Um, but having

2735
01:57:11,840 --> 01:57:15,280
said that, you know, there really is no

2736
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:18,560
penalty per se for having an expired

2737
01:57:18,560 --> 01:57:21,840
general plan other than there could be

2738
01:57:21,840 --> 01:57:24,560
certain state grant funding that we

2739
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:28,800
might not be eligible for and um really

2740
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:30,719
a lot of that funding is related to the

2741
01:57:30,719 --> 01:57:32,960
housing element and a lot of housing

2742
01:57:32,960 --> 01:57:35,040
efforts. That was the last grant we

2743
01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:37,840
received which did go towards the

2744
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:41,280
housing element update. And so some of

2745
01:57:41,280 --> 01:57:44,159
the options as laid out last year is

2746
01:57:44,159 --> 01:57:46,159
just doing a technical update and

2747
01:57:46,159 --> 01:57:49,440
refresh of the general plan. Um the RFP

2748
01:57:49,440 --> 01:57:52,239
could outline that. It sounded like

2749
01:57:52,239 --> 01:57:54,880
during the housing element, uh,

2750
01:57:54,880 --> 01:57:56,880
community outreach, there was some

2751
01:57:56,880 --> 01:58:00,880
interest in possible historic resources

2752
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:04,639
and coming up with a, um, inventory and

2753
01:58:04,639 --> 01:58:07,040
historic context statement for some of

2754
01:58:07,040 --> 01:58:10,080
the historic properties in the town.

2755
01:58:10,080 --> 01:58:13,840
That's an option. Um, let's see. Another

2756
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:16,480
option that was important to the council

2757
01:58:16,480 --> 01:58:18,239
and the compete and the community

2758
01:58:18,239 --> 01:58:22,320
members is updating and analyzing a new

2759
01:58:22,320 --> 01:58:25,840
land use for smaller non-conforming lots

2760
01:58:25,840 --> 01:58:28,719
like the ones along Bolinus and Popppler

2761
01:58:28,719 --> 01:58:30,960
Avenue. That's something we could add to

2762
01:58:30,960 --> 01:58:33,440
the general plan update. And then of

2763
01:58:33,440 --> 01:58:36,080
course you can do a very extensive

2764
01:58:36,080 --> 01:58:38,480
general plan update which would include

2765
01:58:38,480 --> 01:58:41,119
additional elements um extensive

2766
01:58:41,119 --> 01:58:44,880
outreach. Uh the good news is that um

2767
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:48,880
the town has in the general plan fund

2768
01:58:48,880 --> 01:58:51,040
over $600,000.

2769
01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:53,920
So we do have the money for any of these

2770
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,480
options should the council decide that

2771
01:58:56,480 --> 01:58:58,239
you do want to go ahead and proceed with

2772
01:58:58,239 --> 01:59:01,920
the RFP and starting the general general

2773
01:59:01,920 --> 01:59:05,199
plan update process. And I'm happy to

2774
01:59:05,199 --> 01:59:07,040
answer any questions and also just get

2775
01:59:07,040 --> 01:59:09,920
your feedback and direction.

2776
01:59:09,920 --> 01:59:12,639
>> Questions Terry?

2777
01:59:12,639 --> 01:59:14,800
So, Robera, can this be put off until

2778
01:59:14,800 --> 01:59:17,280
2027? Do we have to do anything about it

2779
01:59:17,280 --> 01:59:19,280
right now? We've got a lot on our plate

2780
01:59:19,280 --> 01:59:21,440
for the next 12 weeks.

2781
01:59:21,440 --> 01:59:21,760
>> Yes.

2782
01:59:21,760 --> 01:59:26,480
>> Can we just say we'll get to it in 2027?

2783
01:59:26,480 --> 01:59:28,880
>> I would love nothing more. I mean, there

2784
01:59:28,880 --> 01:59:31,840
is a lot on all of our plate.

2785
01:59:31,840 --> 01:59:32,239
>> Yeah.

2786
01:59:32,239 --> 01:59:35,360
>> Uh it's Rich's first week gone. So,

2787
01:59:35,360 --> 01:59:38,159
right, people are going, "Who's going to

2788
01:59:38,159 --> 01:59:39,760
do this survey? and who's going to look

2789
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:43,119
at this drainage? And so I'm going John

2790
01:59:43,119 --> 01:59:46,080
Mo, right? I'm I'm call I'm also talking

2791
01:59:46,080 --> 01:59:49,679
to the interim town engineer. Um we did

2792
01:59:49,679 --> 01:59:51,840
have our first kickoff meeting with

2793
01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:53,760
Gendler and today we did have some

2794
01:59:53,760 --> 01:59:56,560
homework that was due. So yes, there are

2795
01:59:56,560 --> 01:59:59,679
certainly a lot of priorities that I

2796
01:59:59,679 --> 02:00:03,599
would say are probably above this.

2797
02:00:03,599 --> 02:00:05,760
>> I have had the same question. There are

2798
02:00:05,760 --> 02:00:08,560
no consequences if we put it off. You

2799
02:00:08,560 --> 02:00:10,800
know, I think we should. Okay. Thanks,

2800
02:00:10,800 --> 02:00:12,880
>> Robera. I'm wondering if you do you know

2801
02:00:12,880 --> 02:00:15,280
what the status is of the public works

2802
02:00:15,280 --> 02:00:17,920
director position as other people were

2803
02:00:17,920 --> 02:00:19,599
interviewing. I'm just curious what the

2804
02:00:19,599 --> 02:00:20,320
status is of that.

2805
02:00:20,320 --> 02:00:22,159
>> I believe Christa provided an update on

2806
02:00:22,159 --> 02:00:24,880
that. So, they did hire the town is

2807
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:28,000
getting a um recruitment firm and I

2808
02:00:28,000 --> 02:00:29,840
believe interviews would be in October.

2809
02:00:29,840 --> 02:00:32,159
So, hopefully sometime around there.

2810
02:00:32,159 --> 02:00:33,679
But, you know, for the next couple of

2811
02:00:33,679 --> 02:00:36,239
months, we do have David as our interim

2812
02:00:36,239 --> 02:00:38,560
public works director and then we do

2813
02:00:38,560 --> 02:00:40,639
have a consultant who's our interim town

2814
02:00:40,639 --> 02:00:43,760
engineer and that's how we've been um

2815
02:00:43,760 --> 02:00:45,840
working through or filling that vacancy

2816
02:00:45,840 --> 02:00:48,159
for the time being. That's not to say

2817
02:00:48,159 --> 02:00:50,639
that people still aren't coming in or

2818
02:00:50,639 --> 02:00:52,560
talking to me and taking up my time

2819
02:00:52,560 --> 02:00:54,560
because they know I'm there and they've

2820
02:00:54,560 --> 02:01:00,870
talked to me before. I'm familiar. Yeah.

2821
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:04,239
Bill, do you have any any questions?

2822
02:01:04,239 --> 02:01:05,199
>> No. Thank you.

2823
02:01:05,199 --> 02:01:09,360
>> Okay. Um, public comment on this item.

2824
02:01:09,360 --> 02:01:10,400
Anybody online?

2825
02:01:10,400 --> 02:01:11,440
>> No one online, Mayor.

2826
02:01:11,440 --> 02:01:13,920
>> Okay. I'll just I'll just start. I agree

2827
02:01:13,920 --> 02:01:16,320
that I don't think we should be doing

2828
02:01:16,320 --> 02:01:20,480
this now. Um, we can revisit in August

2829
02:01:20,480 --> 02:01:22,719
of 2027.

2830
02:01:22,719 --> 02:01:24,800
Um, that's probably not going to be a

2831
02:01:24,800 --> 02:01:32,719
great time either, frankly. Um, but the other thing I just noted was just to

2832
02:01:32,719 --> 02:01:35,840
do the technical update was $400,000 and

2833
02:01:35,840 --> 02:01:38,639
then these adders are like another

2834
02:01:38,639 --> 02:01:40,960
hundred. So you get to 500 and then to

2835
02:01:40,960 --> 02:01:43,360
do the comprehensive is 600. So it

2836
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:44,960
doesn't make sense to me not to do the

2837
02:01:44,960 --> 02:01:47,520
comprehensive once we're ready to do the

2838
02:01:47,520 --> 02:01:50,719
comprehensive. I remember from uh when

2839
02:01:50,719 --> 02:01:55,760
we did this um 20 25 years ago, it was

2840
02:01:55,760 --> 02:01:58,719
an extensive process that took about a

2841
02:01:58,719 --> 02:02:00,800
year and a half with tons of meetings

2842
02:02:00,800 --> 02:02:04,719
and workshops and building consensus and

2843
02:02:04,719 --> 02:02:08,480
um so it's it's a it's really involved

2844
02:02:08,480 --> 02:02:10,719
for the community as well as the

2845
02:02:10,719 --> 02:02:14,239
consultant. So I'm all for continuing

2846
02:02:14,239 --> 02:02:17,119
and doing this later.

2847
02:02:17,119 --> 02:02:19,840
>> Me too.

2848
02:02:19,840 --> 02:02:22,159
I mean, nobody ever wants to do these

2849
02:02:22,159 --> 02:02:24,320
things. So, I think whenever it comes

2850
02:02:24,320 --> 02:02:29,040
back, it's going to be a big project. I totally agree with that. The issue is

2851
02:02:29,040 --> 02:02:31,280
that I think the number one issue I get,

2852
02:02:31,280 --> 02:02:34,000
and I think a lot of people my age are

2853
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:37,679
building, is the red tape, is the the

2854
02:02:37,679 --> 02:02:40,560
variances, is the process to get stuff

2855
02:02:40,560 --> 02:02:42,880
built in town is very, very cumbersome

2856
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:47,360
and expensive. And um you know it's

2857
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:49,119
something we have to address and you

2858
02:02:49,119 --> 02:02:50,560
know all these projects it's so

2859
02:02:50,560 --> 02:02:52,800
interesting when it comes here we three

2860
02:02:52,800 --> 02:02:55,040
projects I don't think anyone asked a

2861
02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:57,679
single question and we all just voted

2862
02:02:57,679 --> 02:02:59,119
them through and I I actually really

2863
02:02:59,119 --> 02:03:00,880
appreciate that about this council is

2864
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:03,679
that we very rarely debate a lot of the

2865
02:03:03,679 --> 02:03:05,440
projects and and the ADR does a very

2866
02:03:05,440 --> 02:03:08,239
good job. But we we have to streamline

2867
02:03:08,239 --> 02:03:10,480
these processes for our residents. It is

2868
02:03:10,480 --> 02:03:15,520
the number one complaint I get over and they're like, I didn't I

2869
02:03:15,520 --> 02:03:18,480
thought the town was so great until I I

2870
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:20,639
decided to build something. And then I

2871
02:03:20,639 --> 02:03:22,800
think at the table today, Elizabeth

2872
02:03:22,800 --> 02:03:24,320
heard complaints about the trucks and

2873
02:03:24,320 --> 02:03:26,000
the parking. And there's just things

2874
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:27,760
about living in the town we need to

2875
02:03:27,760 --> 02:03:30,719
address. And uh this is the place to do

2876
02:03:30,719 --> 02:03:33,840
that. And and and so I I really feel

2877
02:03:33,840 --> 02:03:35,599
like at some point, maybe it's not

2878
02:03:35,599 --> 02:03:38,000
today, deciding this. So I'm okay. I

2879
02:03:38,000 --> 02:03:39,679
actually think I would wait till after

2880
02:03:39,679 --> 02:03:43,440
November so we the council is formed.

2881
02:03:43,440 --> 02:03:45,119
But it's something we can't just keep

2882
02:03:45,119 --> 02:03:47,040
kicking down the road because we're

2883
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:48,320
really doing a disservice to the

2884
02:03:48,320 --> 02:03:50,639
residents by not addressing how the town

2885
02:03:50,639 --> 02:03:53,679
functions and what our vision is.

2886
02:03:53,679 --> 02:03:57,040
>> Can I comment? I I do think this

2887
02:03:57,040 --> 02:03:59,520
upcoming year we'll be asking people to

2888
02:03:59,520 --> 02:04:01,199
weigh in on the building and on the bond

2889
02:04:01,199 --> 02:04:03,199
measure and so I hate I I think it's

2890
02:04:03,199 --> 02:04:04,480
confusing to have them weigh in on

2891
02:04:04,480 --> 02:04:08,800
something else. Um I do agree there are differences of opinion about

2892
02:04:08,800 --> 02:04:11,599
how about building um but at the same

2893
02:04:11,599 --> 02:04:13,520
time you hear about the building issues.

2894
02:04:13,520 --> 02:04:14,800
You hear about people who want to keep

2895
02:04:14,800 --> 02:04:17,119
this is a lovely charming small town. So

2896
02:04:17,119 --> 02:04:18,639
I think that'll be an interesting

2897
02:04:18,639 --> 02:04:20,719
discussion to kind of balance people who

2898
02:04:20,719 --> 02:04:23,199
want to build with balance with the

2899
02:04:23,199 --> 02:04:25,360
character of the town. But I don't think

2900
02:04:25,360 --> 02:04:27,119
that we're ready to have that discussion

2901
02:04:27,119 --> 02:04:29,040
right now. I I think it everything

2902
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:30,719
should be focused on the building and

2903
02:04:30,719 --> 02:04:32,800
the bond measure so that we try to get

2904
02:04:32,800 --> 02:04:35,840
unity around that and no not disunityity

2905
02:04:35,840 --> 02:04:39,199
around something else.

2906
02:04:39,199 --> 02:04:43,040
>> Bill, do you have any comments?

2907
02:04:43,040 --> 02:04:46,239
>> No, I I you know I'm I'm listening to

2908
02:04:46,239 --> 02:04:48,639
all of this other than that I think this

2909
02:04:48,639 --> 02:04:50,560
is is something that we could deal with

2910
02:04:50,560 --> 02:04:54,400
next year. U that that resonates. We we

2911
02:04:54,400 --> 02:04:56,080
really have our hands full right now.

2912
02:04:56,080 --> 02:04:59,520
>> Yeah. Okay. Um,

2913
02:04:59,520 --> 02:05:02,080
we don't need a vote on this, right?

2914
02:05:02,080 --> 02:05:04,560
>> Great. Okay.

2915
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:07,360
Moving on to

2916
02:05:07,360 --> 02:05:11,119
number 12. Thank you, Roberta.

2917
02:05:11,119 --> 02:05:13,520
Town council to consider introduction of

2918
02:05:13,520 --> 02:05:16,080
ordinance number 738 to amend the town

2919
02:05:16,080 --> 02:05:18,080
of Ross municipal code to allow for

2920
02:05:18,080 --> 02:05:21,520
different project delivery methods.

2921
02:05:21,520 --> 02:05:22,000
>> David.

2922
02:05:22,000 --> 02:05:23,599
>> Good. Good evening, Mayor McMillan,

2923
02:05:23,599 --> 02:05:25,360
Mayor Proen Robbins, honorable council

2924
02:05:25,360 --> 02:05:27,040
members. I'm I'm David Kelly. I'm your

2925
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:29,040
interim public works director and

2926
02:05:29,040 --> 02:05:31,440
project manager. Uh the item before you

2927
02:05:31,440 --> 02:05:33,679
this evening is first reading of

2928
02:05:33,679 --> 02:05:36,080
ordinance number 738.

2929
02:05:36,080 --> 02:05:39,679
would amend section

2930
02:05:39,679 --> 02:05:42,400
2.4 or excuse me, chapter 2.4 of the

2931
02:05:42,400 --> 02:05:46,400
municipal code. Uh this ordinance is a

2932
02:05:46,400 --> 02:05:49,440
reflection of the uh direction received

2933
02:05:49,440 --> 02:05:52,400
from council uh at your July 9th meeting

2934
02:05:52,400 --> 02:05:54,880
in which you received a presentation uh

2935
02:05:54,880 --> 02:05:57,280
by staff and Griffin structures

2936
02:05:57,280 --> 02:05:59,040
regarding alternative procurement

2937
02:05:59,040 --> 02:06:02,239
methods which included uh the

2938
02:06:02,239 --> 02:06:05,760
traditional uh design bid build but uh

2939
02:06:05,760 --> 02:06:07,920
additional procurement methods including

2940
02:06:07,920 --> 02:06:10,000
a design build and progressive design

2941
02:06:10,000 --> 02:06:12,320
build. And at that council meeting, we

2942
02:06:12,320 --> 02:06:17,920
shared staff shared with you that uh by a simple amendment of your ordinance,

2943
02:06:17,920 --> 02:06:21,520
it could enable uh council to authorize

2944
02:06:21,520 --> 02:06:23,440
the use of a design build and

2945
02:06:23,440 --> 02:06:26,080
progressive design build. So with the

2946
02:06:26,080 --> 02:06:28,800
town attorney's assistance, the uh an

2947
02:06:28,800 --> 02:06:31,679
ordinance was a drafted that would amend

2948
02:06:31,679 --> 02:06:34,159
the code to provide the council the

2949
02:06:34,159 --> 02:06:36,560
opportunity uh to utilize those

2950
02:06:36,560 --> 02:06:38,480
alternative procurement methods.

2951
02:06:38,480 --> 02:06:41,040
Included in your packet is a copy of the

2952
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:43,840
draft ordinance. Uh, and tonight, this

2953
02:06:43,840 --> 02:06:45,840
is a hearing to conduct the first

2954
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:48,000
reading of that ordinance. Uh, again,

2955
02:06:48,000 --> 02:06:50,079
the ordinance was drafted by your town

2956
02:06:50,079 --> 02:06:52,400
attorney's office. Uh, but staff is here

2957
02:06:52,400 --> 02:06:54,880
to entertain any questions as I'm sure

2958
02:06:54,880 --> 02:06:58,159
uh is your as your town attorney has

2959
02:06:58,159 --> 02:07:01,040
>> questions? Anybody?

2960
02:07:01,040 --> 02:07:03,760
>> Any public comment on this?

2961
02:07:03,760 --> 02:07:05,520
>> No one online, mayor.

2962
02:07:05,520 --> 02:07:07,679
>> Great. So, we'll bring it back for a

2963
02:07:07,679 --> 02:07:08,480
motion.

2964
02:07:08,480 --> 02:07:12,079
>> I move we adopt ordinance 738.

2965
02:07:12,079 --> 02:07:18,390
Oh, do I have to read it?

2966
02:07:18,400 --> 02:07:22,880
» Oh, I see. I So, I move that we

2967
02:07:22,880 --> 02:07:23,679
receive the inter

2968
02:07:23,679 --> 02:07:25,040
>> go to the first reading of ordinance

2969
02:07:25,040 --> 02:07:28,229
738.

2970
02:07:28,239 --> 02:07:31,830
» I'll second.

2971
02:07:31,840 --> 02:07:33,679
» Motion by Mayor Prom Robbins, second by

2972
02:07:33,679 --> 02:07:35,520
council member Dingley. Mayor McMillan.

2973
02:07:35,520 --> 02:07:36,239
Yes.

2974
02:07:36,239 --> 02:07:37,520
>> Mayor Potm Robbins.

2975
02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:38,079
>> Yes.

2976
02:07:38,079 --> 02:07:39,760
>> Council member Kercher.

2977
02:07:39,760 --> 02:07:40,400
>> Yes.

2978
02:07:40,400 --> 02:07:41,520
>> Council member Dowling.

2979
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:41,920
>> Yes.

2980
02:07:41,920 --> 02:07:43,040
>> Council member Salter.

2981
02:07:43,040 --> 02:07:43,520
>> Yes.

2982
02:07:43,520 --> 02:07:46,480
>> Motion passes unanimously.

2983
02:07:46,480 --> 02:07:50,950
>> Thank you.

2984
02:07:50,960 --> 02:07:54,960
» Item number 13. Thank you, David. Town

2985
02:07:54,960 --> 02:07:56,800
council to consider approving the town

2986
02:07:56,800 --> 02:07:58,880
of Ross response to the Marin County

2987
02:07:58,880 --> 02:08:01,520
civil grand jury report entitled Better

2988
02:08:01,520 --> 02:08:03,920
Service at Lower Cost. Optimizing

2989
02:08:03,920 --> 02:08:05,840
essential services for the future of

2990
02:08:05,840 --> 02:08:08,079
Marin.

2991
02:08:08,079 --> 02:08:10,639
Zach.

2992
02:08:10,639 --> 02:08:12,320
>> Good evening, mayor and council members.

2993
02:08:12,320 --> 02:08:14,159
For the record, my name is Zach Kob

2994
02:08:14,159 --> 02:08:15,760
DeLeon and I am the town clerk and

2995
02:08:15,760 --> 02:08:18,239
senior management analyst. Agenda item

2996
02:08:18,239 --> 02:08:20,400
number 13 is in regard to the town's

2997
02:08:20,400 --> 02:08:24,480
formal response to the 2025 2026

2998
02:08:24,480 --> 02:08:26,800
Marin civil grand jury report. Better

2999
02:08:26,800 --> 02:08:29,040
service at lower cost optimizing

3000
02:08:29,040 --> 02:08:30,719
essential services for the future of

3001
02:08:30,719 --> 02:08:33,920
Marin. The report looks at more than 50

3002
02:08:33,920 --> 02:08:36,079
special districts in Marin County that

3003
02:08:36,079 --> 02:08:38,159
provide services like fire, water,

3004
02:08:38,159 --> 02:08:40,560
sanitation, and refues. It concludes

3005
02:08:40,560 --> 02:08:42,400
that their fragmented structure creates

3006
02:08:42,400 --> 02:08:45,119
duplicated administration, uneven

3007
02:08:45,119 --> 02:08:47,199
service and fees, and limited capacity

3008
02:08:47,199 --> 02:08:49,599
for long-term investment. It calls on

3009
02:08:49,599 --> 02:08:51,280
district boards working with the county

3010
02:08:51,280 --> 02:08:53,119
to pursue collaboration, shared

3011
02:08:53,119 --> 02:08:54,560
services, and where appropriate,

3012
02:08:54,560 --> 02:08:56,079
consolidation.

3013
02:08:56,079 --> 02:08:58,000
The report includes seven findings and

3014
02:08:58,000 --> 02:09:00,560
nine recommendations. Under state law,

3015
02:09:00,560 --> 02:09:02,320
the town is required to respond to all

3016
02:09:02,320 --> 02:09:04,719
nine nine of them within 90 days, the

3017
02:09:04,719 --> 02:09:07,760
deadline for which is September 9, 2026.

3018
02:09:07,760 --> 02:09:09,920
The town's draft response is included in

3019
02:09:09,920 --> 02:09:12,320
your agenda packet. In the draft

3020
02:09:12,320 --> 02:09:14,639
responses, the town agrees with findings

3021
02:09:14,639 --> 02:09:17,040
F1 through F6 and partial partially

3022
02:09:17,040 --> 02:09:19,520
disagrees with F7. Our partial

3023
02:09:19,520 --> 02:09:22,079
disagreement is narrow. We agree that

3024
02:09:22,079 --> 02:09:24,400
proactive reform is preferable to

3025
02:09:24,400 --> 02:09:26,480
crisisdriven change, but we don't accept

3026
02:09:26,480 --> 02:09:28,239
that the crisis intervention is the

3027
02:09:28,239 --> 02:09:31,119
likely default outcome. Many districts,

3028
02:09:31,119 --> 02:09:33,199
including those in the Ross Valley,

3029
02:09:33,199 --> 02:09:35,119
continue to deliver reliable service and

3030
02:09:35,119 --> 02:09:37,679
can pursue collaboration on a measured

3031
02:09:37,679 --> 02:09:39,920
timeline. Pace and sequencing

3032
02:09:39,920 --> 02:09:41,599
appropriately remain matters of local

3033
02:09:41,599 --> 02:09:44,239
judgment. On the recommendations, all

3034
02:09:44,239 --> 02:09:45,840
nine are directed to either the board of

3035
02:09:45,840 --> 02:09:47,920
supervisors or to the governing boards

3036
02:09:47,920 --> 02:09:49,440
of independently governed special

3037
02:09:49,440 --> 02:09:52,320
districts. As a general law town, Ross

3038
02:09:52,320 --> 02:09:54,079
has no authority to implement any of

3039
02:09:54,079 --> 02:09:56,239
them. So, the town's draft responses to

3040
02:09:56,239 --> 02:09:59,679
R9, R1 through R9 are that they are not

3041
02:09:59,679 --> 02:10:01,840
applicable to the town while noting our

3042
02:10:01,840 --> 02:10:04,159
support for the report's goals. Staff

3043
02:10:04,159 --> 02:10:05,840
recommends that council approve the

3044
02:10:05,840 --> 02:10:08,239
responses and authorize the mayor to

3045
02:10:08,239 --> 02:10:10,320
sign the response form. I'm happy to

3046
02:10:10,320 --> 02:10:12,400
answer any questions.

3047
02:10:12,400 --> 02:10:15,280
>> Questions?

3048
02:10:15,280 --> 02:10:17,679
>> Um, public comment?

3049
02:10:17,679 --> 02:10:19,040
>> No one online. Mayor,

3050
02:10:19,040 --> 02:10:20,079
>> great.

3051
02:10:20,079 --> 02:10:22,400
um motion.

3052
02:10:22,400 --> 02:10:23,119
>> Yep.

3053
02:10:23,119 --> 02:10:25,520
>> So, I I think it's important. Thank you

3054
02:10:25,520 --> 02:10:28,800
for drafting this. In the report, there

3055
02:10:28,800 --> 02:10:31,760
was um language about the the debate

3056
02:10:31,760 --> 02:10:34,159
we're having about our fire station that

3057
02:10:34,159 --> 02:10:36,480
was sent out to the public. And I think

3058
02:10:36,480 --> 02:10:38,239
it's important we address that in our

3059
02:10:38,239 --> 02:10:42,400
response. Um, so I have um I have

3060
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:44,480
language that I'd like to suggest to add

3061
02:10:44,480 --> 02:10:48,560
to the document, which is that Ross is a

3062
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:50,320
member of the Ross Valley Fire

3063
02:10:50,320 --> 02:10:52,639
Department. Neither the town nor its

3064
02:10:52,639 --> 02:10:54,239
residents have advocated for a

3065
02:10:54,239 --> 02:10:57,119
standalone fire station. And number two,

3066
02:10:57,119 --> 02:10:58,880
the debate has centered on whether to

3067
02:10:58,880 --> 02:11:01,599
reopen the Ross Fire Station to restore

3068
02:11:01,599 --> 02:11:03,360
emergency medical and fire response

3069
02:11:03,360 --> 02:11:05,119
times that meet accepted industry

3070
02:11:05,119 --> 02:11:08,709
standards.

3071
02:11:08,719 --> 02:11:10,800
Are we allowed to do that if it's not a

3072
02:11:10,800 --> 02:11:12,880
question that the grand jury is asking

3073
02:11:12,880 --> 02:11:16,239
us to respond to?

3074
02:11:16,239 --> 02:11:17,760
>> I'm happy to answer that question. So,

3075
02:11:17,760 --> 02:11:19,760
the response to a grand jury is very uh

3076
02:11:19,760 --> 02:11:21,679
is prescribed by the penal code of the

3077
02:11:21,679 --> 02:11:24,079
format that's before you tonight. So you

3078
02:11:24,079 --> 02:11:26,159
can certainly look at these findings and

3079
02:11:26,159 --> 02:11:27,679
make if there's a finding in there

3080
02:11:27,679 --> 02:11:30,079
that's drafted that you want to address

3081
02:11:30,079 --> 02:11:31,679
some of those comments to it have to be

3082
02:11:31,679 --> 02:11:34,480
within that context of the findings uh

3083
02:11:34,480 --> 02:11:37,119
that the town clerk has provided as as

3084
02:11:37,119 --> 02:11:39,280
the draft. Um but there's not some sort

3085
02:11:39,280 --> 02:11:46,400
of introduction or other area where you you come up with a statement of

3086
02:11:46,400 --> 02:11:48,320
it's you you have to respond to the

3087
02:11:48,320 --> 02:11:49,679
findings and respond to the

3088
02:11:49,679 --> 02:11:50,719
recommendations.

3089
02:11:50,719 --> 02:11:52,159
>> Okay. Okay. Well, I'm sure we can attach

3090
02:11:52,159 --> 02:11:55,440
it to one of the findings because for

3091
02:11:55,440 --> 02:11:58,320
some it's about having a standalone um

3092
02:11:58,320 --> 02:12:02,800
entity versus being part of a larger um

3093
02:12:02,800 --> 02:12:06,079
service area. I mean that's basically

3094
02:12:06,079 --> 02:12:08,880
even finding one the current fragmented

3095
02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:10,400
structure of special districts results

3096
02:12:10,400 --> 02:12:12,159
in unnecessary duplication of

3097
02:12:12,159 --> 02:12:14,639
administrative services and operational

3098
02:12:14,639 --> 02:12:17,199
efficiencies. We totally agree which is

3099
02:12:17,199 --> 02:12:18,639
why we're members of the Ross Valley

3100
02:12:18,639 --> 02:12:21,760
Fire Department. So I I actually don't

3101
02:12:21,760 --> 02:12:23,360
know why there's any objection to this

3102
02:12:23,360 --> 02:12:26,000
because we're actually already a part of

3103
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:28,719
the fire district. Our fire is part of

3104
02:12:28,719 --> 02:12:31,760
the fire district.

3105
02:12:31,760 --> 02:12:34,159
>> Maybe if it's better for five. It says

3106
02:12:34,159 --> 02:12:36,000
service and pricing inequities currently

3107
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:38,159
exist across Marin and may increase if

3108
02:12:38,159 --> 02:12:39,360
consolidation and functional

3109
02:12:39,360 --> 02:12:41,760
collaboration do not accelerate. And

3110
02:12:41,760 --> 02:12:44,079
your point is that we're not opposing

3111
02:12:44,079 --> 02:12:46,000
collabor. We're not opposing

3112
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:48,320
consolidation. We're not moving towards

3113
02:12:48,320 --> 02:12:50,239
our own private station.

3114
02:12:50,239 --> 02:12:52,239
>> Correct. I mean, we can attach it to any

3115
02:12:52,239 --> 02:12:54,560
one of these, but because the grand jury

3116
02:12:54,560 --> 02:12:56,320
misstated

3117
02:12:56,320 --> 02:12:59,199
what what the town is doing and nobody

3118
02:12:59,199 --> 02:13:02,000
has advocated for that, um, we I want it

3119
02:13:02,000 --> 02:13:03,599
in the in our response. I mean, it needs

3120
02:13:03,599 --> 02:13:06,400
to be clarified, especially because it

3121
02:13:06,400 --> 02:13:08,800
was broadcast to the the community.

3122
02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:11,679
>> Actually, I did not broadcast erroneous

3123
02:13:11,679 --> 02:13:14,079
information to the community. I simply

3124
02:13:14,079 --> 02:13:16,639
quoted verbatim what the grand jury

3125
02:13:16,639 --> 02:13:19,520
report said and I happen to have the

3126
02:13:19,520 --> 02:13:23,040
quote right here which is the grand jury

3127
02:13:23,040 --> 02:13:26,480
said um the fourth rationale is a

3128
02:13:26,480 --> 02:13:28,639
textbook case of misguided civic

3129
02:13:28,639 --> 02:13:30,960
engagement at odds with effective

3130
02:13:30,960 --> 02:13:34,000
services today modern efficiency depends

3131
02:13:34,000 --> 02:13:36,719
on shared regional services not

3132
02:13:36,719 --> 02:13:39,760
maintaining standalone structures note

3133
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:41,599
it does not say department it says

3134
02:13:41,599 --> 02:13:44,159
standalone structure es for symbolic

3135
02:13:44,159 --> 02:13:47,040
reasons building for yesterday. The

3136
02:13:47,040 --> 02:13:49,199
grand jury characterizes FOR's arguments

3137
02:13:49,199 --> 02:13:51,840
as emotional resistance to modernization

3138
02:13:51,840 --> 02:13:54,320
driven by small groups of residents who

3139
02:13:54,320 --> 02:13:56,639
lobby for outdated solutions that are

3140
02:13:56,639 --> 02:14:00,000
not based on current and future needs.

3141
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:02,560
So I would oppose your characterization.

3142
02:14:02,560 --> 02:14:05,520
>> Okay. So the quote continues, Ross risk

3143
02:14:05,520 --> 02:14:07,599
profile has also changed stronger

3144
02:14:07,599 --> 02:14:10,000
building standards. Staffing a

3145
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:13,920
standalone station is easy to demand but

3146
02:14:13,920 --> 02:14:16,320
difficult to sustain according to local.

3147
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:18,320
So we're talking about a standalone

3148
02:14:18,320 --> 02:14:21,440
station versus being a part of we're

3149
02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:22,719
already part of the Ross Valley Fire

3150
02:14:22,719 --> 02:14:23,760
Department.

3151
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:25,840
>> So I don't I mean Julie if you really

3152
02:14:25,840 --> 02:14:27,360
want to go there we could talk about the

3153
02:14:27,360 --> 02:14:29,440
police. We have our own police force. Do

3154
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:31,840
you believe we should be getting closing

3155
02:14:31,840 --> 02:14:33,920
our police station as well and just

3156
02:14:33,920 --> 02:14:36,400
relying on you know centralized police

3157
02:14:36,400 --> 02:14:39,119
force? So th this is a we can take it

3158
02:14:39,119 --> 02:14:40,480
any direction you'd like. You brought

3159
02:14:40,480 --> 02:14:42,159
this into the public fold and I would

3160
02:14:42,159 --> 02:14:43,760
like it clarified.

3161
02:14:43,760 --> 02:14:45,599
>> All I did was quote what the grand jury

3162
02:14:45,599 --> 02:14:47,280
report said verbatim. That's all

3163
02:14:47,280 --> 02:14:49,760
>> I know. And and they misrepresented what

3164
02:14:49,760 --> 02:14:52,079
this argument is about. And so I think

3165
02:14:52,079 --> 02:14:54,079
we absolutely should clarify it for the

3166
02:14:54,079 --> 02:14:57,440
public because that is not been one one

3167
02:14:57,440 --> 02:14:59,920
piece of information. And the friends of

3168
02:14:59,920 --> 02:15:02,000
the Ross Firehouse have also clarified

3169
02:15:02,000 --> 02:15:03,520
that they were part of the Ross and they

3170
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:06,800
sent a an a correction to the town. So I

3171
02:15:06,800 --> 02:15:08,960
don't know why this

3172
02:15:08,960 --> 02:15:11,520
>> other than unless you want to let's

3173
02:15:11,520 --> 02:15:13,360
reopen the talk about police station and

3174
02:15:13,360 --> 02:15:14,480
what you what what

3175
02:15:14,480 --> 02:15:17,119
>> that's a nonsequ it's it's the same

3176
02:15:17,119 --> 02:15:19,440
>> we're not the we're not talking about

3177
02:15:19,440 --> 02:15:19,679
that.

3178
02:15:19,679 --> 02:15:21,679
>> I do think it's I mean if you if there's

3179
02:15:21,679 --> 02:15:28,000
a role for putting in uh you know that Ross isn't focusing on a standalone

3180
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:30,560
station in one of these findings. I'm

3181
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:32,719
not opposed to that because Ross isn't

3182
02:15:32,719 --> 02:15:35,920
focusing on a standalone station. But I

3183
02:15:35,920 --> 02:15:37,360
don't I'm not quite sure which finding

3184
02:15:37,360 --> 02:15:42,079
it goes to and I'm not sure there's a

3185
02:15:42,079 --> 02:15:44,079
>> you're not I'm sorry, Elizabeth.

3186
02:15:44,079 --> 02:15:45,599
>> No, no. I'm just saying I see can see

3187
02:15:45,599 --> 02:15:46,960
that you wouldn't want to put it in

3188
02:15:46,960 --> 02:15:47,440
anyway.

3189
02:15:47,440 --> 02:15:50,159
>> Yes. It doesn't answer. It's not it

3190
02:15:50,159 --> 02:15:53,040
doesn't fit into the I mean there's so

3191
02:15:53,040 --> 02:15:55,280
grand jury when you're asked to respond.

3192
02:15:55,280 --> 02:15:57,119
It's it's

3193
02:15:57,119 --> 02:15:59,280
>> it's sort of black and white and you

3194
02:15:59,280 --> 02:16:02,880
can't add your own sort of other agendas

3195
02:16:02,880 --> 02:16:05,440
to it. So, does anyone besides Matt want

3196
02:16:05,440 --> 02:16:07,599
to add this uh language?

3197
02:16:07,599 --> 02:16:10,000
>> She does. So,

3198
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:12,560
>> something about that Ross isn't focusing

3199
02:16:12,560 --> 02:16:15,760
on a standalone station under maybe F5,

3200
02:16:15,760 --> 02:16:16,560
but

3201
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:17,920
>> I don't know that we have three votes

3202
02:16:17,920 --> 02:16:18,880
for that, but that's

3203
02:16:18,880 --> 02:16:20,800
>> Well, that's what I would I would be

3204
02:16:20,800 --> 02:16:23,119
okay with that because it's it's it is

3205
02:16:23,119 --> 02:16:24,320
sort of relevant. They're talking about

3206
02:16:24,320 --> 02:16:26,400
consolidation and they kind of made it

3207
02:16:26,400 --> 02:16:28,400
sound like Ross is working on a

3208
02:16:28,400 --> 02:16:30,000
standalone station, which isn't the

3209
02:16:30,000 --> 02:16:32,240
goal. So, but let's see what people

3210
02:16:32,240 --> 02:16:35,439
think. Well, the language says

3211
02:16:35,439 --> 02:16:36,880
standalone structure.

3212
02:16:36,880 --> 02:16:39,040
>> It says standalone station staffing a

3213
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:40,160
standalone station

3214
02:16:40,160 --> 02:16:42,240
>> subsequent to the standalone structure.

3215
02:16:42,240 --> 02:16:44,319
Matt, it's focused on standalone

3216
02:16:44,319 --> 02:16:46,800
structure. So, I would be opposed to

3217
02:16:46,800 --> 02:16:50,160
adding anything to

3218
02:16:50,160 --> 02:16:52,080
that's not relevant to the responses

3219
02:16:52,080 --> 02:16:54,479
that Zach already drafted.

3220
02:16:54,479 --> 02:16:56,479
>> So, let's hear from Bill.

3221
02:16:56,479 --> 02:16:59,120
>> Poor Bill. Yeah, I I mean I hear your

3222
02:16:59,120 --> 02:17:02,000
point, Matt, but I I I I think, you

3223
02:17:02,000 --> 02:17:04,000
know, we we should just focus on a

3224
02:17:04,000 --> 02:17:08,399
specific findings uh and recommendations

3225
02:17:08,399 --> 02:17:10,000
as opposed to what else is in the

3226
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:12,000
report.

3227
02:17:12,000 --> 02:17:14,080
So, no, I I would not be in favor of

3228
02:17:14,080 --> 02:17:15,519
adding this, although I do take your

3229
02:17:15,519 --> 02:17:17,120
point.

3230
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:19,200
>> Okay. Well,

3231
02:17:19,200 --> 02:17:21,760
the council has spoken.

3232
02:17:21,760 --> 02:17:23,439
>> Do we need to make a motion to approve

3233
02:17:23,439 --> 02:17:24,319
this?

3234
02:17:24,319 --> 02:17:25,840
>> Yes.

3235
02:17:25,840 --> 02:17:30,629
Can someone make a motion, please?

3236
02:17:30,639 --> 02:17:35,200
» Um, I move that the council approve the

3237
02:17:35,200 --> 02:17:37,439
town of Ross's response to the Bane

3238
02:17:37,439 --> 02:17:40,639
County Grand Jury report and authorizes

3239
02:17:40,639 --> 02:17:44,880
the mayor to sign the response form.

3240
02:17:44,880 --> 02:17:46,960
>> Is there a second?

3241
02:17:46,960 --> 02:17:50,790
I'll second.

3242
02:17:50,800 --> 02:17:52,479
» Motion by council member Dalian, second

3243
02:17:52,479 --> 02:17:55,439
by Mayor McMillan. Mayor McMillan. I

3244
02:17:55,439 --> 02:17:56,719
>> mayor prom.

3245
02:17:56,719 --> 02:17:57,760
>> No.

3246
02:17:57,760 --> 02:17:59,359
>> Council member Kercher.

3247
02:17:59,359 --> 02:18:00,240
>> Hi.

3248
02:18:00,240 --> 02:18:01,439
>> Council member Dowling.

3249
02:18:01,439 --> 02:18:01,920
>> I.

3250
02:18:01,920 --> 02:18:03,120
>> Council member Salter.

3251
02:18:03,120 --> 02:18:03,679
>> No.

3252
02:18:03,679 --> 02:18:10,870
>> Motion passes. 32.

3253
02:18:10,880 --> 02:18:13,439
» Okay. Number 14.

3254
02:18:13,439 --> 02:18:15,599
town council to consider approving the

3255
02:18:15,599 --> 02:18:18,080
town of Ross response

3256
02:18:18,080 --> 02:18:20,880
to the Marin County Civil Grand Jury

3257
02:18:20,880 --> 02:18:24,080
report entitled MCE Marine Clean Energy.

3258
02:18:24,080 --> 02:18:26,559
A series of missteps highlight need for

3259
02:18:26,559 --> 02:18:28,719
governance changes.

3260
02:18:28,719 --> 02:18:32,389
Zack,

3261
02:18:32,399 --> 02:18:34,000
» good evening, mayor and council members.

3262
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:36,800
Again, agenda number 14 is in regard to

3263
02:18:36,800 --> 02:18:38,479
the town's formal response to the civil

3264
02:18:38,479 --> 02:18:41,280
grand jury report, MCE, Marine Clean

3265
02:18:41,280 --> 02:18:43,439
Energy. A series of missteps highlight

3266
02:18:43,439 --> 02:18:46,160
need for governance changes. MCE is a

3267
02:18:46,160 --> 02:18:48,000
joint powers authority of 38 member

3268
02:18:48,000 --> 02:18:50,160
agencies across four counties which

3269
02:18:50,160 --> 02:18:52,240
include the town of Ross. It's

3270
02:18:52,240 --> 02:18:54,080
California's first community choice

3271
02:18:54,080 --> 02:18:57,679
aggregator, CCA, and one of the largest

3272
02:18:57,679 --> 02:19:00,399
serving more than 1.5 million customers.

3273
02:19:00,399 --> 02:19:03,120
As a CCA, MCE handles electricity

3274
02:19:03,120 --> 02:19:05,439
generation while PG&E still handles

3275
02:19:05,439 --> 02:19:07,679
transmission, distribution, and billing.

3276
02:19:07,679 --> 02:19:09,599
The report is critical of the AY's

3277
02:19:09,599 --> 02:19:11,519
governance practices. The report

3278
02:19:11,519 --> 02:19:13,280
includes 14 findings and 13

3279
02:19:13,280 --> 02:19:15,519
recommendations.

3280
02:19:15,519 --> 02:19:17,920
MCE must respond to all of them. Marine

3281
02:19:17,920 --> 02:19:20,240
cities and towns, including Ross, are

3282
02:19:20,240 --> 02:19:21,840
required to respond to just two findings

3283
02:19:21,840 --> 02:19:25,280
and two recommendations, F4 and F5 and

3284
02:19:25,280 --> 02:19:28,319
R5 and R six, respectively. On the

3285
02:19:28,319 --> 02:19:32,080
findings, the town agrees with both. F4

3286
02:19:32,080 --> 02:19:34,160
recognizes that MCE is a large and

3287
02:19:34,160 --> 02:19:36,319
complex agency and that board members

3288
02:19:36,319 --> 02:19:38,160
who are local elected officials have

3289
02:19:38,160 --> 02:19:40,319
understandably limited expertise in

3290
02:19:40,319 --> 02:19:43,439
energy markets and utility finance. F5

3291
02:19:43,439 --> 02:19:44,960
recognizes that board members face

3292
02:19:44,960 --> 02:19:46,800
competing demands on their time which

3293
02:19:46,800 --> 02:19:49,280
has affected attendance. On that point,

3294
02:19:49,280 --> 02:19:50,720
I'll note that Ross has made a

3295
02:19:50,720 --> 02:19:52,560
consistent effort to be represented

3296
02:19:52,560 --> 02:19:54,560
including sending an alternate when our

3297
02:19:54,560 --> 02:19:56,960
primary representative is unavailable.

3298
02:19:56,960 --> 02:19:59,040
On the recommendations, the town agrees

3299
02:19:59,040 --> 02:20:02,000
with R5, which calls for a process

3300
02:20:02,000 --> 02:20:03,520
ensuring the board member or an

3301
02:20:03,520 --> 02:20:05,200
alternate commits to attending each

3302
02:20:05,200 --> 02:20:07,359
meeting. The town partially agrees with

3303
02:20:07,359 --> 02:20:09,600
R six, which calls for prioritizing

3304
02:20:09,600 --> 02:20:11,359
appointees with the most extensive

3305
02:20:11,359 --> 02:20:13,600
financial and energy expertise. We

3306
02:20:13,600 --> 02:20:15,520
support the goal, but for a small

3307
02:20:15,520 --> 02:20:17,200
jurisdiction like Ross with a five

3308
02:20:17,200 --> 02:20:18,880
member council, it isn't always

3309
02:20:18,880 --> 02:20:20,640
realistic to have a member with that

3310
02:20:20,640 --> 02:20:22,880
specialized background. Our position is

3311
02:20:22,880 --> 02:20:24,880
that expertise is important, but should

3312
02:20:24,880 --> 02:20:26,399
be weighed alongside attendance.

3313
02:20:26,399 --> 02:20:28,640
availability, institutional knowledge,

3314
02:20:28,640 --> 02:20:30,720
and the ability to serve consistently

3315
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:33,120
rather than being the overriding factor.

3316
02:20:33,120 --> 02:20:35,840
For context, MCE's executive committee

3317
02:20:35,840 --> 02:20:38,160
voted in July to form an ad hoc

3318
02:20:38,160 --> 02:20:40,000
committee to draft the agency's own

3319
02:20:40,000 --> 02:20:42,000
response, which goes to its full board

3320
02:20:42,000 --> 02:20:44,080
on August 20th. However, the town's

3321
02:20:44,080 --> 02:20:47,520
response deadline is September 14, 2026.

3322
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:49,359
Staff recommends the council approve the

3323
02:20:49,359 --> 02:20:51,120
response and authorize the mayor to

3324
02:20:51,120 --> 02:20:54,000
sign. I'm happy to answer any questions.

3325
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:57,190
>> Questions?

3326
02:20:57,200 --> 02:20:59,520
Um public comment.

3327
02:20:59,520 --> 02:21:00,960
>> No one online. Mayor,

3328
02:21:00,960 --> 02:21:02,960
>> thank you. Um bring it back for

3329
02:21:02,960 --> 02:21:05,920
discussion or a motion.

3330
02:21:05,920 --> 02:21:09,280
>> So um I have an issue with R six. I

3331
02:21:09,280 --> 02:21:12,399
think that we should be prioritizing um

3332
02:21:12,399 --> 02:21:14,160
you know financial and energy expertise

3333
02:21:14,160 --> 02:21:16,399
and it we do not have to appoint a

3334
02:21:16,399 --> 02:21:18,560
council member to serve on the board. It

3335
02:21:18,560 --> 02:21:21,200
could be a resident. It could be anyone.

3336
02:21:21,200 --> 02:21:24,800
And I do think that given that I am the

3337
02:21:24,800 --> 02:21:26,080
council member who has the most

3338
02:21:26,080 --> 02:21:28,319
financial expertise being a CFA charter

3339
02:21:28,319 --> 02:21:30,640
holder and I was removed from the

3340
02:21:30,640 --> 02:21:33,600
position for for talking about the

3341
02:21:33,600 --> 02:21:35,840
corruption that was basically coming out

3342
02:21:35,840 --> 02:21:37,439
in this report, we should say something

3343
02:21:37,439 --> 02:21:41,520
about that. Um because I don't I don't

3344
02:21:41,520 --> 02:21:43,040
understand why the person with the most

3345
02:21:43,040 --> 02:21:44,800
financial expertise that was asking all

3346
02:21:44,800 --> 02:21:46,240
the questions that ended up being

3347
02:21:46,240 --> 02:21:49,200
completely validated was removed.

3348
02:21:49,200 --> 02:21:51,200
I don't want to get into that, Matt. We

3349
02:21:51,200 --> 02:21:54,399
already discussed that when I removed

3350
02:21:54,399 --> 02:21:56,960
you, and I don't want to get into that,

3351
02:21:56,960 --> 02:21:59,280
but I will say very briefly that you

3352
02:21:59,280 --> 02:22:00,720
were not removed because of the

3353
02:22:00,720 --> 02:22:02,640
questions you were being you were

3354
02:22:02,640 --> 02:22:05,439
asking. You were removed because I

3355
02:22:05,439 --> 02:22:07,439
received complaints from four other

3356
02:22:07,439 --> 02:22:09,840
board members about your behavior,

3357
02:22:09,840 --> 02:22:11,680
>> which are which were never publicly

3358
02:22:11,680 --> 02:22:14,080
disclosed. And we had, I think, five

3359
02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:16,880
different board members uh submit public

3360
02:22:16,880 --> 02:22:18,800
letters of support. The mayor of

3361
02:22:18,800 --> 02:22:21,280
Belvadier, the mayor of Larks, who ended

3362
02:22:21,280 --> 02:22:24,080
up all the things that I talked about

3363
02:22:24,080 --> 02:22:26,640
were actually in this grand jury report.

3364
02:22:26,640 --> 02:22:28,319
Everything that I was working on that

3365
02:22:28,319 --> 02:22:32,000
you that you chose to hide the

3366
02:22:32,000 --> 02:22:34,800
corruption by removing me and silencing

3367
02:22:34,800 --> 02:22:37,200
me needs to be addressed in this R six

3368
02:22:37,200 --> 02:22:39,120
because why would you replace the person

3369
02:22:39,120 --> 02:22:41,120
who was actually advocating

3370
02:22:41,120 --> 02:22:41,439
>> then

3371
02:22:41,439 --> 02:22:42,640
>> for the reforms?

3372
02:22:42,640 --> 02:22:45,200
>> Ben, could we have a point of order

3373
02:22:45,200 --> 02:22:45,680
here, please?

3374
02:22:45,680 --> 02:22:46,640
>> Well, it's not a point of order. It's

3375
02:22:46,640 --> 02:22:48,319
the it's the agenda item. Yeah. We don't

3376
02:22:48,319 --> 02:22:50,479
address individual council members in a

3377
02:22:50,479 --> 02:22:52,080
finding to a grand jury.

3378
02:22:52,080 --> 02:22:54,319
>> Yeah. I understand you have a dispute

3379
02:22:54,319 --> 02:22:56,880
with the mayor about what led up to

3380
02:22:56,880 --> 02:23:00,080
your, you know, being uh taken off the

3381
02:23:00,080 --> 02:23:02,240
board, but we're focusing right now on

3382
02:23:02,240 --> 02:23:04,640
the language of R six and whether or not

3383
02:23:04,640 --> 02:23:06,880
we partially disagree or whether the

3384
02:23:06,880 --> 02:23:08,640
council thinks we should partially agree

3385
02:23:08,640 --> 02:23:12,080
or agree and the reasons for it. Um, but

3386
02:23:12,080 --> 02:23:14,160
again, it's not about you as a person

3387
02:23:14,160 --> 02:23:15,600
being taken off the board.

3388
02:23:15,600 --> 02:23:17,520
>> Yes, I hear you. So, I I think we should

3389
02:23:17,520 --> 02:23:20,000
prioritize people with financial and

3390
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:22,160
energy expertise on this board. And in

3391
02:23:22,160 --> 02:23:24,560
fact that is the entire findings is the

3392
02:23:24,560 --> 02:23:27,120
board was derelictked in its duty

3393
02:23:27,120 --> 02:23:30,479
because it was inept to handle these

3394
02:23:30,479 --> 02:23:32,160
very complicated questions about the

3395
02:23:32,160 --> 02:23:33,680
energy market. So why would we not

3396
02:23:33,680 --> 02:23:36,000
prioritize people who have expertise in

3397
02:23:36,000 --> 02:23:38,399
energy and financial matters that makes

3398
02:23:38,399 --> 02:23:39,200
no sense to me.

3399
02:23:39,200 --> 02:23:41,280
>> It's my understanding that in order to

3400
02:23:41,280 --> 02:23:44,960
be um the liaison to the MCE board you

3401
02:23:44,960 --> 02:23:47,760
have to be an elected official.

3402
02:23:47,760 --> 02:23:51,040
So I think that the finding recognizes

3403
02:23:51,040 --> 02:23:54,319
that limitation. I know that MCE is

3404
02:23:54,319 --> 02:23:56,319
going through a very large governance

3405
02:23:56,319 --> 02:23:58,800
workshop right now and there'll probably

3406
02:23:58,800 --> 02:24:01,280
be some consolidation of board pieces.

3407
02:24:01,280 --> 02:24:03,040
Maybe they'll change the rule that you

3408
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:05,439
have to be an elected official to get

3409
02:24:05,439 --> 02:24:07,280
people who are more qualified to serve

3410
02:24:07,280 --> 02:24:09,520
on the board. I don't know. But right

3411
02:24:09,520 --> 02:24:12,240
now, I think, you know, there's there's

3412
02:24:12,240 --> 02:24:15,920
a big limitation in the way the bylaws

3413
02:24:15,920 --> 02:24:18,319
work for that organization.

3414
02:24:18,319 --> 02:24:20,560
So, I think that's why we say it's a

3415
02:24:20,560 --> 02:24:23,040
worthwhile goal, but we're our hands are

3416
02:24:23,040 --> 02:24:25,120
tied. It has to be a council member.

3417
02:24:25,120 --> 02:24:27,359
>> But why wouldn't we prioritize

3418
02:24:27,359 --> 02:24:29,760
energy and financial expertise? That's

3419
02:24:29,760 --> 02:24:32,000
all the the language says. Prioritize.

3420
02:24:32,000 --> 02:24:33,920
It doesn't say you have to.

3421
02:24:33,920 --> 02:24:35,760
>> So, that would be my point. It says we

3422
02:24:35,760 --> 02:24:39,200
partially disagree. All this says is is

3423
02:24:39,200 --> 02:24:41,359
that we that people should reassess

3424
02:24:41,359 --> 02:24:43,680
appointments to prioritize those with

3425
02:24:43,680 --> 02:24:45,600
financial and energy expertise. That

3426
02:24:45,600 --> 02:24:47,200
seems fine. Yeah. So, I don't know why

3427
02:24:47,200 --> 02:24:48,960
we say partially disagree. I would say I

3428
02:24:48,960 --> 02:24:50,960
agree because it's only it's only

3429
02:24:50,960 --> 02:24:53,200
prioritize and we may well have other

3430
02:24:53,200 --> 02:24:55,760
reasons why our most financially expert

3431
02:24:55,760 --> 02:24:58,080
person shouldn't be on the board. Maybe

3432
02:24:58,080 --> 02:24:59,600
that, you know, maybe there's continuity

3433
02:24:59,600 --> 02:25:01,680
or something. But I I think R six should

3434
02:25:01,680 --> 02:25:05,040
be agree and not partially disagree.

3435
02:25:05,040 --> 02:25:06,720
>> It doesn't change anything for us. It's

3436
02:25:06,720 --> 02:25:08,560
just it's just a recommendation to

3437
02:25:08,560 --> 02:25:12,080
prioritize expertise and we can try. It

3438
02:25:12,080 --> 02:25:13,760
doesn't say you have to. So that's

3439
02:25:13,760 --> 02:25:15,760
because it says should reassess and

3440
02:25:15,760 --> 02:25:19,600
prioritize. So it's very um I think it

3441
02:25:19,600 --> 02:25:21,840
gives each council the the ability to

3442
02:25:21,840 --> 02:25:23,680
choose whoever they want but just with a

3443
02:25:23,680 --> 02:25:26,720
with an eye to keeping with an eye to

3444
02:25:26,720 --> 02:25:30,240
focusing on uh expert, you know,

3445
02:25:30,240 --> 02:25:32,319
expertise. So I would say my opinion is

3446
02:25:32,319 --> 02:25:34,080
this should be an agree just a straight

3447
02:25:34,080 --> 02:25:37,590
out agree

3448
02:25:37,600 --> 02:25:39,840
» clarify what you're saying. I mean the

3449
02:25:39,840 --> 02:25:41,920
other part of this is by December 31st

3450
02:25:41,920 --> 02:25:44,000
2026 you'll do all these steps. So I

3451
02:25:44,000 --> 02:25:45,680
think that's something

3452
02:25:45,680 --> 02:25:48,240
>> but it says should so we don't have to

3453
02:25:48,240 --> 02:25:49,760
>> if you're if you're agreeing you're

3454
02:25:49,760 --> 02:25:52,399
saying by this date you will reassess

3455
02:25:52,399 --> 02:25:54,000
you should reassess your appointments to

3456
02:25:54,000 --> 02:25:55,520
the chosen boards.

3457
02:25:55,520 --> 02:25:57,680
>> I thought but it will be because we have

3458
02:25:57,680 --> 02:26:00,000
a new council in November. So, of

3459
02:26:00,000 --> 02:26:01,040
course, it'll be reassessed.

3460
02:26:01,040 --> 02:26:03,200
>> I thought since it didn't say shall, we

3461
02:26:03,200 --> 02:26:04,800
didn't have to. I thought should was

3462
02:26:04,800 --> 02:26:08,240
sort of gave you some wiggle room. Um, I

3463
02:26:08,240 --> 02:26:10,399
mean, that's what the lawyers always say

3464
02:26:10,399 --> 02:26:13,200
like shall shall is required and should

3465
02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:15,680
is is room. So, I

3466
02:26:15,680 --> 02:26:18,319
>> I mean, if we do disagree, I think it

3467
02:26:18,319 --> 02:26:21,040
should be partially disagree. Uh, we

3468
02:26:21,040 --> 02:26:22,880
will focus on our appointments in the

3469
02:26:22,880 --> 02:26:24,880
future, but you know, so that we can get

3470
02:26:24,880 --> 02:26:28,160
away from that December 31, 2026 issue.

3471
02:26:28,160 --> 02:26:29,920
But otherwise, I think it's an agree.

3472
02:26:29,920 --> 02:26:31,520
So, do you think we can't say agree

3473
02:26:31,520 --> 02:26:34,240
because it says we should

3474
02:26:34,240 --> 02:26:36,000
>> partially disagree. You can say agree or

3475
02:26:36,000 --> 02:26:38,960
you can say partially uh you'd have to

3476
02:26:38,960 --> 02:26:40,240
say partially disagree. There's no

3477
02:26:40,240 --> 02:26:42,000
partially agree in the penal code.

3478
02:26:42,000 --> 02:26:42,479
>> Okay.

3479
02:26:42,479 --> 02:26:44,399
>> So, I think if you wanted to clarify

3480
02:26:44,399 --> 02:26:46,080
that you're going to do it

3481
02:26:46,080 --> 02:26:48,000
>> at our

3482
02:26:48,000 --> 02:26:49,920
time frame, then you could say partially

3483
02:26:49,920 --> 02:26:52,720
disagree. The criteria is something

3484
02:26:52,720 --> 02:26:54,800
we're interested in abiding by. the

3485
02:26:54,800 --> 02:26:56,960
timeline is going to be based on our

3486
02:26:56,960 --> 02:26:58,560
when we do our appointment process.

3487
02:26:58,560 --> 02:27:00,960
>> So we could say so partially disagree

3488
02:27:00,960 --> 02:27:05,840
and and the only comment is we we

3489
02:27:05,840 --> 02:27:07,359
don't we're not sure that we will be

3490
02:27:07,359 --> 02:27:09,520
getting to this by December 31 or just

3491
02:27:09,520 --> 02:27:11,359
>> we're going to have a new mayor and a

3492
02:27:11,359 --> 02:27:13,359
new council. I know but so it will

3493
02:27:13,359 --> 02:27:14,800
happen as a normal course of our

3494
02:27:14,800 --> 02:27:15,359
process.

3495
02:27:15,359 --> 02:27:16,640
>> I don't think we should be tied to a

3496
02:27:16,640 --> 02:27:17,439
timeline. I think

3497
02:27:17,439 --> 02:27:19,680
>> you're not tied. It says it literally

3498
02:27:19,680 --> 02:27:22,399
says should should reassess by December

3499
02:27:22,399 --> 02:27:24,640
31st. you should. It doesn't mean you

3500
02:27:24,640 --> 02:27:25,040
have to.

3501
02:27:25,040 --> 02:27:26,479
>> I think Ben is saying if we say agree,

3502
02:27:26,479 --> 02:27:28,240
it looks like we're agreeing to do this.

3503
02:27:28,240 --> 02:27:31,280
So why not say partially disagree? We

3504
02:27:31,280 --> 02:27:34,000
agree with uh reassessing, but we don't

3505
02:27:34,000 --> 02:27:35,280
agree with the timeline

3506
02:27:35,280 --> 02:27:37,840
>> or we agree with the prioritization. I

3507
02:27:37,840 --> 02:27:39,200
mean, you could say we agree with the

3508
02:27:39,200 --> 02:27:41,280
prioritization.

3509
02:27:41,280 --> 02:27:43,760
>> Sure. I mean, that's fine, too. We agree

3510
02:27:43,760 --> 02:27:45,680
with the prioritization, but we don't

3511
02:27:45,680 --> 02:27:49,280
agree with the timeline. And that's the extent of it. And that way,

3512
02:27:49,280 --> 02:27:51,760
we do agree overall with this with the

3513
02:27:51,760 --> 02:27:53,439
statement. we just don't want to be

3514
02:27:53,439 --> 02:27:58,240
committed to doing this, you know, come December.

3515
02:27:58,240 --> 02:27:59,760
I don't know. That that would be what I

3516
02:27:59,760 --> 02:28:04,710
would that would be my response.

3517
02:28:04,720 --> 02:28:06,240
» What do you all think? I

3518
02:28:06,240 --> 02:28:07,920
>> I'm actually fine with the wording as it

3519
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:09,040
is. So, you

3520
02:28:09,040 --> 02:28:10,960
>> I'm fine. I'm fine with the wording as

3521
02:28:10,960 --> 02:28:14,469
it is here.

3522
02:28:14,479 --> 02:28:17,520
» Okay, back to you, Bill again.

3523
02:28:17,520 --> 02:28:19,280
I'm okay with the wording as it is, but

3524
02:28:19,280 --> 02:28:21,040
I'm also okay with Elizabeth's

3525
02:28:21,040 --> 02:28:22,080
suggestion.

3526
02:28:22,080 --> 02:28:23,439
>> Well, you got to pick one.

3527
02:28:23,439 --> 02:28:25,200
>> You gotta pick Bill.

3528
02:28:25,200 --> 02:28:27,840
>> Okay. As as it is, but we all know what

3529
02:28:27,840 --> 02:28:30,160
we're really talking about is when the

3530
02:28:30,160 --> 02:28:32,560
new mayor and the council get around to

3531
02:28:32,560 --> 02:28:34,160
making the appointments for the next

3532
02:28:34,160 --> 02:28:36,880
term.

3533
02:28:36,880 --> 02:28:38,160
>> I'm sorry.

3534
02:28:38,160 --> 02:28:39,600
>> Was that clear enough? Probably not.

3535
02:28:39,600 --> 02:28:40,800
>> We didn't understand you.

3536
02:28:40,800 --> 02:28:44,080
>> I don't think What is What was your

3537
02:28:44,080 --> 02:28:46,399
>> uh recommendation? Let's just go with

3538
02:28:46,399 --> 02:28:48,399
what what's in there.

3539
02:28:48,399 --> 02:28:49,680
>> Let's just go with what's in there. I

3540
02:28:49,680 --> 02:28:50,399
don't think we're gonna have a

3541
02:28:50,399 --> 02:28:52,640
consensus, Elizabeth, for your

3542
02:28:52,640 --> 02:28:53,680
>> for your thing.

3543
02:28:53,680 --> 02:28:56,800
>> Well, you but not without you. We need

3544
02:28:56,800 --> 02:28:58,720
you, Bill. Um

3545
02:28:58,720 --> 02:29:01,120
>> Okay. Well, then you

3546
02:29:01,120 --> 02:29:03,760
>> Okay, let's say we have Do we have three

3547
02:29:03,760 --> 02:29:05,680
with what Elizabeth suggested?

3548
02:29:05,680 --> 02:29:07,200
>> Well, I agree with Elizabeth. I will

3549
02:29:07,200 --> 02:29:07,520
agree.

3550
02:29:07,520 --> 02:29:09,040
>> Okay, then we have three. Okay, that's

3551
02:29:09,040 --> 02:29:09,280
good.

3552
02:29:09,280 --> 02:29:10,640
>> You agree with us? Okay, great. Thank

3553
02:29:10,640 --> 02:29:12,399
you, Bill. So, we're changing the

3554
02:29:12,399 --> 02:29:15,359
language to partially disagree

3555
02:29:15,359 --> 02:29:17,439
>> with the time. Like, we don't know.

3556
02:29:17,439 --> 02:29:18,640
>> I was just say partially disagree with

3557
02:29:18,640 --> 02:29:19,840
the timeline. Leave it at that.

3558
02:29:19,840 --> 02:29:20,479
>> Yeah.

3559
02:29:20,479 --> 02:29:22,479
>> Partially with the timeline, but

3560
02:29:22,479 --> 02:29:23,600
>> leave it at that. Yeah.

3561
02:29:23,600 --> 02:29:25,680
>> With

3562
02:29:25,680 --> 02:29:27,359
Yeah. I have one other comment that you

3563
02:29:27,359 --> 02:29:30,000
know I do think financial experience is

3564
02:29:30,000 --> 02:29:32,640
important, but it also mentions legal.

3565
02:29:32,640 --> 02:29:34,240
So, Matt, between the two of us, I have

3566
02:29:34,240 --> 02:29:36,000
the legal, you have the financial, but I

3567
02:29:36,000 --> 02:29:38,240
also have financial, but not to the

3568
02:29:38,240 --> 02:29:39,120
depth you do.

3569
02:29:39,120 --> 02:29:40,319
>> Team Bill, I know that.

3570
02:29:40,319 --> 02:29:41,760
>> Yeah. Okay.

3571
02:29:41,760 --> 02:29:43,920
>> So, are we keeping in this is a

3572
02:29:43,920 --> 02:29:46,399
worthwhile goal when making a getting

3573
02:29:46,399 --> 02:29:47,040
rid of all of it?

3574
02:29:47,040 --> 02:29:48,240
>> All the language. So, our only new

3575
02:29:48,240 --> 02:29:50,640
language is partially disagree. We agree

3576
02:29:50,640 --> 02:29:54,319
with uh uh with the recommendation but

3577
02:29:54,319 --> 02:29:55,840
disagree with the timeline.

3578
02:29:55,840 --> 02:29:56,560
>> Yes.

3579
02:29:56,560 --> 02:29:58,479
>> Do you agree with that bill?

3580
02:29:58,479 --> 02:29:59,680
>> Yes, that's fine.

3581
02:29:59,680 --> 02:30:01,439
>> Okay,

3582
02:30:01,439 --> 02:30:02,880
great.

3583
02:30:02,880 --> 02:30:03,840
>> So, is that is

3584
02:30:03,840 --> 02:30:05,840
>> So, we need a we need a motion then.

3585
02:30:05,840 --> 02:30:10,240
Well, so I move that for R six we um we

3586
02:30:10,240 --> 02:30:12,160
change the wording that says partially

3587
02:30:12,160 --> 02:30:14,479
disagree and then the text we delete

3588
02:30:14,479 --> 02:30:16,160
what's there and we say we agree with

3589
02:30:16,160 --> 02:30:18,560
the recommendation but disagree with the

3590
02:30:18,560 --> 02:30:20,800
timeline

3591
02:30:20,800 --> 02:30:23,359
>> second

3592
02:30:23,359 --> 02:30:26,160
>> I guess I can't

3593
02:30:26,160 --> 02:30:28,479
>> so it's like we yeah we agree with the

3594
02:30:28,479 --> 02:30:31,200
recommendations with the amendment to R

3595
02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:33,520
six as stated

3596
02:30:33,520 --> 02:30:36,560
>> why don't you second it I I I I can

3597
02:30:36,560 --> 02:30:38,240
second. I was Do you want us to That

3598
02:30:38,240 --> 02:30:40,080
could be the motion. I'm happy to make

3599
02:30:40,080 --> 02:30:41,520
that motion.

3600
02:30:41,520 --> 02:30:42,240
>> I I

3601
02:30:42,240 --> 02:30:43,680
>> We don't need to make it again.

3602
02:30:43,680 --> 02:30:45,840
Elizabeth made it and Matt, you seconded

3603
02:30:45,840 --> 02:30:46,080
it.

3604
02:30:46,080 --> 02:30:46,720
>> Yes.

3605
02:30:46,720 --> 02:30:48,800
>> So, just call the role, please.

3606
02:30:48,800 --> 02:30:52,560
>> Motion by Mayor Prom Robbins, second by

3607
02:30:52,560 --> 02:30:54,160
Council Member Salter.

3608
02:30:54,160 --> 02:30:55,200
>> Uh Mayor McMillan,

3609
02:30:55,200 --> 02:30:55,840
>> yes.

3610
02:30:55,840 --> 02:30:57,200
>> Mayor Prom Robbins,

3611
02:30:57,200 --> 02:30:58,080
>> yes.

3612
02:30:58,080 --> 02:31:00,399
>> Council member Kercher,

3613
02:31:00,399 --> 02:31:00,880
>> yes.

3614
02:31:00,880 --> 02:31:01,920
>> Council member Dalling,

3615
02:31:01,920 --> 02:31:02,319
>> yes.

3616
02:31:02,319 --> 02:31:03,520
>> Council member Salter,

3617
02:31:03,520 --> 02:31:05,520
>> yes. Motion passes unanimously.

3618
02:31:05,520 --> 02:31:08,160
>> Did I? No, I meant no. I'm sorry.

3619
02:31:08,160 --> 02:31:09,680
>> Okay, Terry changes her vote.

3620
02:31:09,680 --> 02:31:12,720
>> Motion passes 4-1.

3621
02:31:12,720 --> 02:31:14,080
>> Okay.

3622
02:31:14,080 --> 02:31:18,479
Number 15, town council to receive

3623
02:31:18,479 --> 02:31:20,880
a report on options for town council pay

3624
02:31:20,880 --> 02:31:23,680
and the accompanying survey of council

3625
02:31:23,680 --> 02:31:25,680
member compensation in Marin County and

3626
02:31:25,680 --> 02:31:27,680
provide direction to staff on whether to

3627
02:31:27,680 --> 02:31:30,160
establish monthly compensation for

3628
02:31:30,160 --> 02:31:32,960
members of the town council and if so

3629
02:31:32,960 --> 02:31:34,960
the amount up to the applicable

3630
02:31:34,960 --> 02:31:38,800
statutory maximum. Town manager Johnson.

3631
02:31:38,800 --> 02:31:40,160
Oh,

3632
02:31:40,160 --> 02:31:40,560
>> Zack,

3633
02:31:40,560 --> 02:31:43,200
>> I'll be taking this one as well.

3634
02:31:43,200 --> 02:31:44,800
Hello again, Mayor McMillan and council

3635
02:31:44,800 --> 02:31:46,319
members. Thank you for the opportunity

3636
02:31:46,319 --> 02:31:47,920
to present to you this evening on the

3637
02:31:47,920 --> 02:31:50,240
subject of council member compensation.

3638
02:31:50,240 --> 02:31:52,960
Agenda item number 15 ask the council to

3639
02:31:52,960 --> 02:31:54,560
discuss and consider establishing

3640
02:31:54,560 --> 02:31:56,160
compensation for members of the town

3641
02:31:56,160 --> 02:31:57,840
council pursuant to government code

3642
02:31:57,840 --> 02:32:00,800
section 36516.

3643
02:32:00,800 --> 02:32:02,640
Ross council members currently serve as

3644
02:32:02,640 --> 02:32:04,960
volunteers and receive no pay or

3645
02:32:04,960 --> 02:32:07,120
benefits. This item would establish

3646
02:32:07,120 --> 02:32:09,040
compensation for the first time. It is

3647
02:32:09,040 --> 02:32:10,960
not a raise because there is no existing

3648
02:32:10,960 --> 02:32:12,240
salary.

3649
02:32:12,240 --> 02:32:14,560
As a general law town, Ross is subject

3650
02:32:14,560 --> 02:32:16,960
to the state tiered salary schedule in

3651
02:32:16,960 --> 02:32:19,200
section 36516.

3652
02:32:19,200 --> 02:32:21,520
For our tier, towns with populations of

3653
02:32:21,520 --> 02:32:24,640
up to three 35,000 residents, the

3654
02:32:24,640 --> 02:32:26,720
maximum compensation for council members

3655
02:32:26,720 --> 02:32:30,080
is $950 per month. That figure comes

3656
02:32:30,080 --> 02:32:32,479
from Senate Bill 329.

3657
02:32:32,479 --> 02:32:34,160
Setting compensation is done by

3658
02:32:34,160 --> 02:32:35,760
ordinance and is entirely within the

3659
02:32:35,760 --> 02:32:37,600
council's authority. No voter approval

3660
02:32:37,600 --> 02:32:39,680
is required as long as the amount stays

3661
02:32:39,680 --> 02:32:43,040
below the $950 cap, but council may

3662
02:32:43,040 --> 02:32:44,479
choose to bring this to the voters in a

3663
02:32:44,479 --> 02:32:47,120
future election. State law also controls

3664
02:32:47,120 --> 02:32:49,359
the timing. Compensation cannot apply to

3665
02:32:49,359 --> 02:32:50,880
a council member during their current

3666
02:32:50,880 --> 02:32:53,200
term. It takes effect for each member

3667
02:32:53,200 --> 02:32:55,840
only as they begin a new term, so it

3668
02:32:55,840 --> 02:32:57,439
would phase in as seats turn over

3669
02:32:57,439 --> 02:32:59,280
beginning with the November 2026

3670
02:32:59,280 --> 02:33:01,200
election should council choose to start

3671
02:33:01,200 --> 02:33:03,600
the program this year. For context,

3672
02:33:03,600 --> 02:33:05,600
staff surveyed council pay across cities

3673
02:33:05,600 --> 02:33:07,680
and towns of Min County. The smaller

3674
02:33:07,680 --> 02:33:09,280
towns, including Ross, Belvadier, and

3675
02:33:09,280 --> 02:33:11,040
Tibberon, have historically not

3676
02:33:11,040 --> 02:33:13,280
compensated council members. Several

3677
02:33:13,280 --> 02:33:15,120
jurisdictions have recently increase

3678
02:33:15,120 --> 02:33:16,960
council pay with Mil Valley going to

3679
02:33:16,960 --> 02:33:19,439
$650 a month. Other cities with a

3680
02:33:19,439 --> 02:33:21,120
similar size population to the town of

3681
02:33:21,120 --> 02:33:23,760
Ross have increased council compensation

3682
02:33:23,760 --> 02:33:26,560
to $950 a month. And Neato and

3683
02:33:26,560 --> 02:33:28,160
Centerfell have higher compensation

3684
02:33:28,160 --> 02:33:30,000
based on their population sizes

3685
02:33:30,000 --> 02:33:32,800
exceeding $1,500 a month. The town of

3686
02:33:32,800 --> 02:33:34,399
Fairfax has set their council pay at

3687
02:33:34,399 --> 02:33:36,960
$300 per month for several years.

3688
02:33:36,960 --> 02:33:39,120
Regarding the financial impact, the town

3689
02:33:39,120 --> 02:33:40,880
has not included council pay in the

3690
02:33:40,880 --> 02:33:43,280
fiscical year 2627 budget. Because

3691
02:33:43,280 --> 02:33:45,600
compensation is treated as wages, the

3692
02:33:45,600 --> 02:33:47,760
town also pays employer payroll cost of

3693
02:33:47,760 --> 02:33:50,560
roughly 10% on top of the base amount.

3694
02:33:50,560 --> 02:33:52,560
Fully loaded, the five member council

3695
02:33:52,560 --> 02:33:55,439
would cost about $33,000 per year at 500

3696
02:33:55,439 --> 02:33:59,520
a month, about $50,000 per year at $750

3697
02:33:59,520 --> 02:34:02,880
per month, and about $63,000 per year at

3698
02:34:02,880 --> 02:34:07,040
the 95 or $950 maximum per month. First

3699
02:34:07,040 --> 02:34:08,720
year cost would be lower, as I mentioned

3700
02:34:08,720 --> 02:34:10,800
before, because the pay phases in as

3701
02:34:10,800 --> 02:34:13,120
terms turn over. Staff recommends that

3702
02:34:13,120 --> 02:34:15,120
council receive this report, discuss the

3703
02:34:15,120 --> 02:34:17,600
topic, and provide direction on whether

3704
02:34:17,600 --> 02:34:20,880
to establish compensation, and if so, at

3705
02:34:20,880 --> 02:34:23,680
up to what amounts up to the statutory

3706
02:34:23,680 --> 02:34:25,840
maximum. If the council wishes to move

3707
02:34:25,840 --> 02:34:27,760
forward, staff will return with the

3708
02:34:27,760 --> 02:34:29,600
enabling ordinance and the necessary

3709
02:34:29,600 --> 02:34:31,680
budget amendment. I'm happy to answer

3710
02:34:31,680 --> 02:34:33,280
any questions.

3711
02:34:33,280 --> 02:34:36,000
>> Questions?

3712
02:34:36,000 --> 02:34:39,520
>> Um, any public comment?

3713
02:34:39,520 --> 02:34:41,600
I'm going to read the public comment

3714
02:34:41,600 --> 02:34:45,120
that Charlie Goodman made at the July

3715
02:34:45,120 --> 02:34:49,120
9th meeting um from the meeting minutes

3716
02:34:49,120 --> 02:34:52,640
on it's on page 29. Charlie Goodman

3717
02:34:52,640 --> 02:34:54,319
expressed concern about the possibility

3718
02:34:54,319 --> 02:34:56,319
of compensating council members. He

3719
02:34:56,319 --> 02:34:58,000
shared that during his 12 years on the

3720
02:34:58,000 --> 02:35:00,319
council, he personally incurred expenses

3721
02:35:00,319 --> 02:35:02,240
while serving because he viewed public

3722
02:35:02,240 --> 02:35:04,560
service as a privilege and a way to give

3723
02:35:04,560 --> 02:35:06,800
back to the community. Mr. Mr. Goodman

3724
02:35:06,800 --> 02:35:08,560
emphasized that council members

3725
02:35:08,560 --> 02:35:10,720
volunteer significant personal time and

3726
02:35:10,720 --> 02:35:12,720
effort and are not motivated by

3727
02:35:12,720 --> 02:35:15,040
financial compensation. He acknowledged

3728
02:35:15,040 --> 02:35:16,800
that some other communities provide

3729
02:35:16,800 --> 02:35:18,640
stipens, but stated that he believes

3730
02:35:18,640 --> 02:35:21,280
Ross' tradition of volunteer service is

3731
02:35:21,280 --> 02:35:23,200
unique and that compensation would

3732
02:35:23,200 --> 02:35:26,479
diminish the nature of the role.

3733
02:35:26,479 --> 02:35:28,479
Any other public comment?

3734
02:35:28,479 --> 02:35:30,000
>> No one online, Mayor.

3735
02:35:30,000 --> 02:35:31,760
>> Okay. So, we'll bring it back for a

3736
02:35:31,760 --> 02:35:35,520
discussion. This is yours, Matt. So,

3737
02:35:35,520 --> 02:35:37,520
it's interesting because I really think

3738
02:35:37,520 --> 02:35:39,359
that, you know, the people who serve on

3739
02:35:39,359 --> 02:35:41,920
the council tend to be a lot older,

3740
02:35:41,920 --> 02:35:44,720
retired, and maybe financially secure.

3741
02:35:44,720 --> 02:35:48,399
And I think that we do a disservice to

3742
02:35:48,399 --> 02:35:50,080
the people who may want to run for

3743
02:35:50,080 --> 02:35:51,680
office. Maybe they have children. Maybe

3744
02:35:51,680 --> 02:35:54,479
they're lower income. And we offer no

3745
02:35:54,479 --> 02:35:56,160
compensation for the amount of time and

3746
02:35:56,160 --> 02:35:58,800
effort it takes to to to to work on this

3747
02:35:58,800 --> 02:36:01,840
council. And while Charlie Goodman may

3748
02:36:01,840 --> 02:36:04,240
be very financially secure and feel and

3749
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:06,319
that he's entitled to his opinion, I

3750
02:36:06,319 --> 02:36:08,240
think that people should serve and run

3751
02:36:08,240 --> 02:36:10,319
for public office and not be worried

3752
02:36:10,319 --> 02:36:12,319
that they need to pay for someone to

3753
02:36:12,319 --> 02:36:14,319
watch their kids at night when they're

3754
02:36:14,319 --> 02:36:17,359
coming to to come to council. At RPOA,

3755
02:36:17,359 --> 02:36:19,840
we always struggled to get the auxiliary

3756
02:36:19,840 --> 02:36:21,439
members to come to the meetings because

3757
02:36:21,439 --> 02:36:22,720
they were at night and they could not

3758
02:36:22,720 --> 02:36:25,120
pay for or find people to watch their

3759
02:36:25,120 --> 02:36:27,439
kids. you need to think a little bit

3760
02:36:27,439 --> 02:36:29,520
beyond just being retired and wealthy in

3761
02:36:29,520 --> 02:36:32,479
Ross. It needs to be um we need to

3762
02:36:32,479 --> 02:36:36,080
promote all people of all income levels

3763
02:36:36,080 --> 02:36:38,720
to wanting to serve and run for office.

3764
02:36:38,720 --> 02:36:40,479
And I think that many of the problems

3765
02:36:40,479 --> 02:36:42,880
that come out of the council are myopic

3766
02:36:42,880 --> 02:36:44,560
because there's only one view expressed

3767
02:36:44,560 --> 02:36:46,640
on this council and it tends to be from

3768
02:36:46,640 --> 02:36:48,720
a certain demographic and we don't

3769
02:36:48,720 --> 02:36:51,280
represent the demographics of Ross and I

3770
02:36:51,280 --> 02:36:53,200
think that to encourage that this is one

3771
02:36:53,200 --> 02:36:57,990
step we can take to do that.

3772
02:36:58,000 --> 02:37:01,040
Um, I agree with Charlie. I I think it's

3773
02:37:01,040 --> 02:37:03,600
a privilege to serve and I think that

3774
02:37:03,600 --> 02:37:06,399
compensation, it's not a lot of money to

3775
02:37:06,399 --> 02:37:08,800
begin with. Um, but I think it somehow

3776
02:37:08,800 --> 02:37:11,280
cheapens the role. Um, so I would

3777
02:37:11,280 --> 02:37:13,920
absolutely not want to u start a

3778
02:37:13,920 --> 02:37:16,399
compensation for council members. Your

3779
02:37:16,399 --> 02:37:19,760
point about um expenses, I think that's

3780
02:37:19,760 --> 02:37:22,319
well taken. So, for example, uh I think

3781
02:37:22,319 --> 02:37:25,680
we already have provisions for um

3782
02:37:25,680 --> 02:37:27,600
reimbursement if there's if there's

3783
02:37:27,600 --> 02:37:29,520
travel or if you have to take someone

3784
02:37:29,520 --> 02:37:31,439
out for a meal. Not we don't take people

3785
02:37:31,439 --> 02:37:36,880
out for a meal as much, but if ever, but you know, maybe we should expand our

3786
02:37:36,880 --> 02:37:38,720
reimbursement policy to include a

3787
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:40,479
babysitter at night. I mean, I hadn't

3788
02:37:40,479 --> 02:37:41,760
really thought of it until you mentioned

3789
02:37:41,760 --> 02:37:44,479
that. But but you know that might be a

3790
02:37:44,479 --> 02:37:47,280
way of making it easier for pe for

3791
02:37:47,280 --> 02:37:48,960
families with younger for people with

3792
02:37:48,960 --> 02:37:52,399
young children to serve. But I wouldn't

3793
02:37:52,399 --> 02:37:56,880
I I I would not want us to um provide

3794
02:37:56,880 --> 02:38:00,800
compensation for council members.

3795
02:38:00,800 --> 02:38:02,960
Well, I agree with Elizabeth and I agree

3796
02:38:02,960 --> 02:38:06,319
with Charlie. I think uh volunteering to

3797
02:38:06,319 --> 02:38:09,040
be on the town council in Ross is a

3798
02:38:09,040 --> 02:38:11,840
privilege and an honor and volunteering

3799
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:17,510
is very noble to do that and uh

3800
02:38:17,520 --> 02:38:21,920
being reimbursed for the time. No.

3801
02:38:21,920 --> 02:38:24,640
>> Well, thoughts

3802
02:38:24,640 --> 02:38:26,399
question for Matt. Matt, how much do you

3803
02:38:26,399 --> 02:38:28,720
think the pay would have to be to for

3804
02:38:28,720 --> 02:38:31,680
example uh entice more younger people to

3805
02:38:31,680 --> 02:38:33,760
be on the council? I always my view

3806
02:38:33,760 --> 02:38:37,040
always was that that people were busy

3807
02:38:37,040 --> 02:38:39,120
not just with raising children but a lot

3808
02:38:39,120 --> 02:38:40,640
of other things when they were younger

3809
02:38:40,640 --> 02:38:43,840
later uh when when people are partially

3810
02:38:43,840 --> 02:38:46,240
retired or retired they have more time

3811
02:38:46,240 --> 02:38:47,920
but if we get back to the financial

3812
02:38:47,920 --> 02:38:50,000
thing what do you have some figure in

3813
02:38:50,000 --> 02:38:50,960
mind?

3814
02:38:50,960 --> 02:38:52,800
>> Oh I think a couple hundred dollars a

3815
02:38:52,800 --> 02:38:55,120
month is would be plenty. I think it's

3816
02:38:55,120 --> 02:38:58,000
also I mean from my experience you know

3817
02:38:58,000 --> 02:39:00,880
when you go out with a constituent and

3818
02:39:00,880 --> 02:39:02,960
you don't want to let them pay for your

3819
02:39:02,960 --> 02:39:04,960
coffee or whatever it is it's it just

3820
02:39:04,960 --> 02:39:06,640
gives you a little extra that you don't

3821
02:39:06,640 --> 02:39:08,640
feel uncomfortable paying for the

3822
02:39:08,640 --> 02:39:11,359
constituent. Um but I I think it would

3823
02:39:11,359 --> 02:39:13,600
help encourage people from different

3824
02:39:13,600 --> 02:39:15,840
demographics to know that there's some

3825
02:39:15,840 --> 02:39:18,399
level of compensation that they can rely

3826
02:39:18,399 --> 02:39:20,960
on. um because it takes it takes a lot

3827
02:39:20,960 --> 02:39:25,200
of time to do this job and and you you need to find coverage and I

3828
02:39:25,200 --> 02:39:26,960
think of single families, single

3829
02:39:26,960 --> 02:39:29,840
parents, I mean we can open this up.

3830
02:39:29,840 --> 02:39:31,840
It's it's not that it isn't a privilege

3831
02:39:31,840 --> 02:39:34,080
and an honor to serve. It's just

3832
02:39:34,080 --> 02:39:35,920
recognizing that we have lots of

3833
02:39:35,920 --> 02:39:38,080
different demographics and diversity and

3834
02:39:38,080 --> 02:39:42,800
the needs are different for people. So I think a couple hundred a month was not

3835
02:39:42,800 --> 02:39:44,800
going to break the bank of the town. And

3836
02:39:44,800 --> 02:39:46,640
by the way, any council member can

3837
02:39:46,640 --> 02:39:48,960
choose to opt out. You can say I don't

3838
02:39:48,960 --> 02:39:50,800
want the compensation. I think our

3839
02:39:50,800 --> 02:39:52,399
president does that and he doesn't take

3840
02:39:52,399 --> 02:39:55,120
compensation. So if you want to serve

3841
02:39:55,120 --> 02:39:56,399
and you don't say I don't want the

3842
02:39:56,399 --> 02:39:58,240
compensation, don't take it. But for the

3843
02:39:58,240 --> 02:40:00,479
people who need it or want it, it's

3844
02:40:00,479 --> 02:40:02,240
there for them. And it it's a little bit

3845
02:40:02,240 --> 02:40:04,960
extra to help them cover their expenses

3846
02:40:04,960 --> 02:40:09,680
because there's a lot of needs. Look at the time right now. It's 8:41.

3847
02:40:09,680 --> 02:40:11,600
And if you're a single parent, I don't

3848
02:40:11,600 --> 02:40:14,160
want you not to run for Rosstown Council

3849
02:40:14,160 --> 02:40:15,520
because you're like, I'm just going to

3850
02:40:15,520 --> 02:40:17,040
have to spend a lot of money on child

3851
02:40:17,040 --> 02:40:19,760
care or other issues. I just I really

3852
02:40:19,760 --> 02:40:21,920
see this as an issue that is a

3853
02:40:21,920 --> 02:40:23,520
non-issue. If you don't want the

3854
02:40:23,520 --> 02:40:25,600
compensation, don't take it. And for the

3855
02:40:25,600 --> 02:40:27,359
people who need it or want it, they it

3856
02:40:27,359 --> 02:40:31,830
should be available to them.

3857
02:40:31,840 --> 02:40:33,920
» Well, I mean, it's not just the council

3858
02:40:33,920 --> 02:40:35,200
meetings, you know, it's the other

3859
02:40:35,200 --> 02:40:36,960
meetings we all go to and the other

3860
02:40:36,960 --> 02:40:40,560
things we do. So, um,

3861
02:40:40,560 --> 02:40:42,560
I'd certainly like to see more younger

3862
02:40:42,560 --> 02:40:44,319
people on the council. I think that

3863
02:40:44,319 --> 02:40:46,640
would be very significant, but I I'm not

3864
02:40:46,640 --> 02:40:49,200
sure this would would make that much of

3865
02:40:49,200 --> 02:40:51,359
a difference, frankly, man.

3866
02:40:51,359 --> 02:40:53,439
>> But I would I would favor something like

3867
02:40:53,439 --> 02:40:56,240
compensation for child care and whatnot.

3868
02:40:56,240 --> 02:40:56,560
>> Yeah,

3869
02:40:56,560 --> 02:40:58,319
>> I I think that would be great. I just

3870
02:40:58,319 --> 02:40:59,600
don't know whe that's something we can

3871
02:40:59,600 --> 02:41:05,200
do. I suppose Ben, could we do it?

3872
02:41:05,200 --> 02:41:07,200
>> Ben, can we reimbursement? Can we

3873
02:41:07,200 --> 02:41:09,040
reimburse people for child care?

3874
02:41:09,040 --> 02:41:10,960
>> I'd have to look at that first under

3875
02:41:10,960 --> 02:41:12,640
existing reimbursement policy and then

3876
02:41:12,640 --> 02:41:14,240
under state law there's very strict

3877
02:41:14,240 --> 02:41:15,760
guidelines about what can and can't be

3878
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:18,640
reimbured under those guidelines.

3879
02:41:18,640 --> 02:41:24,560
>> Yeah, I I think um my view is I guess

3880
02:41:24,560 --> 02:41:26,560
I'm more of a traditionalist along with

3881
02:41:26,560 --> 02:41:29,439
Terry and Elizabeth and Charlie. And I

3882
02:41:29,439 --> 02:41:32,000
also feel like the ADR people work just

3883
02:41:32,000 --> 02:41:33,920
as hard as we do. And there's other

3884
02:41:33,920 --> 02:41:36,640
committees that also work just as hard

3885
02:41:36,640 --> 02:41:39,359
as we do. So it would kind of become a

3886
02:41:39,359 --> 02:41:41,359
slippery slope of, you know,

3887
02:41:41,359 --> 02:41:43,840
compensating. And you look at the other

3888
02:41:43,840 --> 02:41:46,479
demographics who do not compensate, and

3889
02:41:46,479 --> 02:41:49,680
they're very similar to our demographic.

3890
02:41:49,680 --> 02:41:53,120
Um, and I also don't think that $200 or

3891
02:41:53,120 --> 02:41:55,040
$300 is going to make any kind of

3892
02:41:55,040 --> 02:41:57,359
material difference in whether someone

3893
02:41:57,359 --> 02:41:59,840
is going to serve on the council or not.

3894
02:41:59,840 --> 02:42:03,120
So I'm I'm keeping with the status quo.

3895
02:42:03,120 --> 02:42:08,630
That's my opinion.

3896
02:42:08,640 --> 02:42:12,640
So it sounds like we have at we have

3897
02:42:12,640 --> 02:42:15,600
four who want to continue maybe explore

3898
02:42:15,600 --> 02:42:17,840
reimbursement and Matt would like

3899
02:42:17,840 --> 02:42:21,600
compensation. That that seems right. So

3900
02:42:21,600 --> 02:42:24,240
maybe Ben, you could look into

3901
02:42:24,240 --> 02:42:26,399
reimbursement if that's something that's

3902
02:42:26,399 --> 02:42:28,800
feasible

3903
02:42:28,800 --> 02:42:31,200
for child care.

3904
02:42:31,200 --> 02:42:32,319
>> Mayor, mayor.

3905
02:42:32,319 --> 02:42:34,560
>> Yeah. May I I just would like to just

3906
02:42:34,560 --> 02:42:37,120
add one part about the reimbursement is

3907
02:42:37,120 --> 02:42:40,560
going to be difficult for staff to um

3908
02:42:40,560 --> 02:42:43,920
administer because you get into how much

3909
02:42:43,920 --> 02:42:47,120
is I mean it's not for staff to decide

3910
02:42:47,120 --> 02:42:50,319
how much you should pay your caregiver

3911
02:42:50,319 --> 02:42:52,479
and to get receipts and most people that

3912
02:42:52,479 --> 02:42:58,080
I know of that hire babysitters aren't getting receipts themselves

3913
02:42:58,080 --> 02:43:00,080
and there's tax implications. It's

3914
02:43:00,080 --> 02:43:02,960
really it's it's very messy. I mean, I

3915
02:43:02,960 --> 02:43:04,800
think it would be you could do something

3916
02:43:04,800 --> 02:43:06,479
like

3917
02:43:06,479 --> 02:43:09,280
where you you you have the compensation,

3918
02:43:09,280 --> 02:43:13,280
try to um match it to let's say you have

3919
02:43:13,280 --> 02:43:16,479
one meeting a month um and how many you

3920
02:43:16,479 --> 02:43:18,479
know the average amount of hours per the

3921
02:43:18,479 --> 02:43:20,399
meeting and then try to get an idea of

3922
02:43:20,399 --> 02:43:23,120
how much a a caregiver would cost and

3923
02:43:23,120 --> 02:43:26,080
then and use that um because we also

3924
02:43:26,080 --> 02:43:28,880
have to do payroll taxes and I mean

3925
02:43:28,880 --> 02:43:31,040
there There's just a lot that goes into

3926
02:43:31,040 --> 02:43:33,840
this and I I really don't want staff to

3927
02:43:33,840 --> 02:43:37,439
have to be in the position of um

3928
02:43:37,439 --> 02:43:40,399
approving reimbursement requests for

3929
02:43:40,399 --> 02:43:42,479
caregivers. I I see that as being really

3930
02:43:42,479 --> 02:43:45,279
problematic. It already is problematic

3931
02:43:45,279 --> 02:43:50,960
with reimbursement for travel and and I'm glad that the council very

3932
02:43:50,960 --> 02:43:53,279
rarely ever asks for that because it it

3933
02:43:53,279 --> 02:43:56,960
puts staff in a in a difficult position.

3934
02:43:56,960 --> 02:43:58,560
Thank you for letting me give you my two

3935
02:43:58,560 --> 02:43:59,600
cents. So,

3936
02:43:59,600 --> 02:44:02,640
>> so I I'm convinced by Christa's

3937
02:44:02,640 --> 02:44:05,840
comments. Um, I also think I mean it

3938
02:44:05,840 --> 02:44:07,439
isn't going to come up that often if you

3939
02:44:07,439 --> 02:44:09,359
have young children. I mean, it's great

3940
02:44:09,359 --> 02:44:10,640
to have different viewpoints, but

3941
02:44:10,640 --> 02:44:12,080
typically people with young children

3942
02:44:12,080 --> 02:44:13,680
don't run for the council because you're

3943
02:44:13,680 --> 02:44:15,920
so busy. So, I don't know that not

3944
02:44:15,920 --> 02:44:18,080
reimbursing for child care limits the

3945
02:44:18,080 --> 02:44:20,479
pool of candidates. So, I I'm okay to

3946
02:44:20,479 --> 02:44:24,319
just forget pass on the reimbursement.

3947
02:44:24,319 --> 02:44:25,840
But I thought it was I thought it was a

3948
02:44:25,840 --> 02:44:27,920
good idea, Matt. But I hearing how it

3949
02:44:27,920 --> 02:44:30,080
would be implemented, I think that we

3950
02:44:30,080 --> 02:44:32,880
should pass on that.

3951
02:44:32,880 --> 02:44:35,040
>> Okay. It's always good to hear back from

3952
02:44:35,040 --> 02:44:37,920
what our ideas are and how they reflect

3953
02:44:37,920 --> 02:44:40,240
on staff work. So, thank you for your

3954
02:44:40,240 --> 02:44:43,990
comments. So,

3955
02:44:44,000 --> 02:44:45,920
okay.

3956
02:44:45,920 --> 02:44:50,240
So we're ready to move on to number 16,

3957
02:44:50,240 --> 02:44:51,840
which is discussion regarding

3958
02:44:51,840 --> 02:44:53,920
implementation of the executed

3959
02:44:53,920 --> 02:44:55,520
professional services agreement with

3960
02:44:55,520 --> 02:44:57,680
Gensler for facilities master plan

3961
02:44:57,680 --> 02:45:04,710
amendment services.

3962
02:45:04,720 --> 02:45:06,720
» Good evening again, Mayor McMillan,

3963
02:45:06,720 --> 02:45:08,800
Mayor Prom Robbins, honorable council

3964
02:45:08,800 --> 02:45:11,040
members. Uh the purpose of tonight's

3965
02:45:11,040 --> 02:45:13,120
agenda item is to discuss how the

3966
02:45:13,120 --> 02:45:15,279
recently approved professional services

3967
02:45:15,279 --> 02:45:17,920
agreement with Ginsor is and will be

3968
02:45:17,920 --> 02:45:20,319
implemented. Uh specifically regarding

3969
02:45:20,319 --> 02:45:22,880
opportunities for continued

3970
02:45:22,880 --> 02:45:25,120
participation by both the citizens

3971
02:45:25,120 --> 02:45:27,279
advisory committee as well as other

3972
02:45:27,279 --> 02:45:28,720
community stakeholders during

3973
02:45:28,720 --> 02:45:30,399
preparation of this facilities master

3974
02:45:30,399 --> 02:45:33,680
plan amendment. Uh, as council's very

3975
02:45:33,680 --> 02:45:35,600
aware, on August 4th, you approved an

3976
02:45:35,600 --> 02:45:37,600
agreement that included a scope of work

3977
02:45:37,600 --> 02:45:39,840
with Gendler to prepare an amendment to

3978
02:45:39,840 --> 02:45:43,200
the town's uh, facilities master plan.

3979
02:45:43,200 --> 02:45:46,000
And that uh, scope included a very

3980
02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:49,200
accelerated 12week schedule uh, with the

3981
02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:51,520
objective of completing the amendment

3982
02:45:51,520 --> 02:45:54,640
uh, this coming October.

3983
02:45:54,640 --> 02:45:57,520
So, why is this item before you? Um,

3984
02:45:57,520 --> 02:45:59,520
following approval of the agreement, I

3985
02:45:59,520 --> 02:46:01,920
think it was uh, Mayor Prom Robbins

3986
02:46:01,920 --> 02:46:04,080
requested council discuss whether

3987
02:46:04,080 --> 02:46:06,880
members of the CAC should participate in

3988
02:46:06,880 --> 02:46:09,920
the regular project management meetings

3989
02:46:09,920 --> 02:46:13,920
between uh, town staff and Gendler. Uh,

3990
02:46:13,920 --> 02:46:15,600
want to note that staff, you know,

3991
02:46:15,600 --> 02:46:17,040
really carefully considered and

3992
02:46:17,040 --> 02:46:19,200
evaluated that request and also

3993
02:46:19,200 --> 02:46:20,880
considered the correspondence that was

3994
02:46:20,880 --> 02:46:23,040
submitted uh, by a CAC member that's

3995
02:46:23,040 --> 02:46:25,840
here this evening, Mr. Weiny.

3996
02:46:25,840 --> 02:46:29,359
uh the staff report that that uh was

3997
02:46:29,359 --> 02:46:31,279
included with this item attempts really

3998
02:46:31,279 --> 02:46:34,240
to accomplish two objectives. It's it's

3999
02:46:34,240 --> 02:46:36,240
one to maintain and support

4000
02:46:36,240 --> 02:46:38,640
opportunities for meaningful stakeholder

4001
02:46:38,640 --> 02:46:41,439
participation in the process but also to

4002
02:46:41,439 --> 02:46:44,880
preserve an efficient project management

4003
02:46:44,880 --> 02:46:46,800
structure that allows Gendler to

4004
02:46:46,800 --> 02:46:49,120
complete the work on schedule. Uh we've

4005
02:46:49,120 --> 02:46:51,359
already found this week our schedules

4006
02:46:51,359 --> 02:46:54,800
are all very tight. uh it's it's even

4007
02:46:54,800 --> 02:46:56,399
difficult to schedule meetings when

4008
02:46:56,399 --> 02:46:58,560
we're all available, but we're working

4009
02:46:58,560 --> 02:47:01,840
very diligently uh within that timeline

4010
02:47:01,840 --> 02:47:04,240
to get all of the work completed and get

4011
02:47:04,240 --> 02:47:07,680
those meetings scheduled. Um, one of the

4012
02:47:07,680 --> 02:47:10,240
kind of the key uh distinctions that I

4013
02:47:10,240 --> 02:47:11,920
think council should make is the

4014
02:47:11,920 --> 02:47:14,399
difference between uh project management

4015
02:47:14,399 --> 02:47:16,720
meetings and and stakeholder engagement

4016
02:47:16,720 --> 02:47:19,359
meetings. Uh our kickoff meeting on

4017
02:47:19,359 --> 02:47:22,960
Monday uh was to discuss you know

4018
02:47:22,960 --> 02:47:26,160
communication protocols to discuss

4019
02:47:26,160 --> 02:47:29,040
scheduling to discuss how we're going to

4020
02:47:29,040 --> 02:47:31,120
get our subconsultants under contract

4021
02:47:31,120 --> 02:47:33,120
and the work completed how we're going

4022
02:47:33,120 --> 02:47:35,840
to get the site uh how the team is going

4023
02:47:35,840 --> 02:47:38,000
to come out and conduct their their

4024
02:47:38,000 --> 02:47:40,880
sitewalk. So it's a lot of detailed

4025
02:47:40,880 --> 02:47:42,479
project management work and I don't

4026
02:47:42,479 --> 02:47:46,880
think that that's the objective that uh the the CAC is seeking. and I think

4027
02:47:46,880 --> 02:47:48,399
they're looking at how can they be

4028
02:47:48,399 --> 02:47:50,800
involved in some of the other elements

4029
02:47:50,800 --> 02:47:53,359
of the project and give council uh good

4030
02:47:53,359 --> 02:47:55,680
and positive feedback on some of the

4031
02:47:55,680 --> 02:47:58,640
work that's being done. Um

4032
02:47:58,640 --> 02:48:03,040
so you really want to highlight that you

4033
02:48:03,040 --> 02:48:05,760
the town manager has already expanded

4034
02:48:05,760 --> 02:48:08,399
opportunities for council input by

4035
02:48:08,399 --> 02:48:11,520
scheduling four four spe four special

4036
02:48:11,520 --> 02:48:13,359
meetings. I think those have all been

4037
02:48:13,359 --> 02:48:17,279
placed on your calendar. uh those will

4038
02:48:17,279 --> 02:48:19,359
provide for you know additional

4039
02:48:19,359 --> 02:48:22,080
opportunities for staff to bring forward

4040
02:48:22,080 --> 02:48:23,920
you know critical policy decisions for

4041
02:48:23,920 --> 02:48:26,640
your consideration. Um and and as part

4042
02:48:26,640 --> 02:48:30,399
of that that's an an effort for us to uh

4043
02:48:30,399 --> 02:48:32,319
you know engage with the community and

4044
02:48:32,319 --> 02:48:34,160
discuss with the community or at least

4045
02:48:34,160 --> 02:48:36,880
allow enable the community to to hear

4046
02:48:36,880 --> 02:48:38,399
what some of those critical policy

4047
02:48:38,399 --> 02:48:42,160
issues are. So, uh, what what staff

4048
02:48:42,160 --> 02:48:44,319
recommends if if council wishes to

4049
02:48:44,319 --> 02:48:48,319
expand the CAC participation is to

4050
02:48:48,319 --> 02:48:51,040
establish, uh, three mile stain

4051
02:48:51,040 --> 02:48:52,720
milestonebased

4052
02:48:52,720 --> 02:48:55,120
meetings with the CAC during preparation

4053
02:48:55,120 --> 02:48:57,840
of the facility master plan. Uh these

4054
02:48:57,840 --> 02:49:00,080
meetings would allow Ginsler to provide,

4055
02:49:00,080 --> 02:49:02,080
you know, key project updates, present

4056
02:49:02,080 --> 02:49:04,479
work in progress, receive technical

4057
02:49:04,479 --> 02:49:07,120
observations and comments and and

4058
02:49:07,120 --> 02:49:09,279
ultimately help identify matters that

4059
02:49:09,279 --> 02:49:11,520
could come back to council uh for for

4060
02:49:11,520 --> 02:49:13,600
policy direction. Again, noting council

4061
02:49:13,600 --> 02:49:16,399
council's the policy direction here. Uh

4062
02:49:16,399 --> 02:49:18,160
direction to Gendler regarding scope,

4063
02:49:18,160 --> 02:49:20,080
schedule delivers, deliverables, and

4064
02:49:20,080 --> 02:49:22,080
advancement of alternatives would

4065
02:49:22,080 --> 02:49:24,800
otherwise continue to be uh directed

4066
02:49:24,800 --> 02:49:27,120
through the town manager. um uh under

4067
02:49:27,120 --> 02:49:29,520
the professional services agreement of

4068
02:49:29,520 --> 02:49:31,120
course ultimately through policy

4069
02:49:31,120 --> 02:49:34,160
direction uh provided by the council. Uh

4070
02:49:34,160 --> 02:49:36,240
one of the things that your agenda

4071
02:49:36,240 --> 02:49:38,880
report discusses is opportunities for

4072
02:49:38,880 --> 02:49:41,680
broader community outreach. Uh we want

4073
02:49:41,680 --> 02:49:44,080
to note that the citizens advisory

4074
02:49:44,080 --> 02:49:45,760
committee is really not the only

4075
02:49:45,760 --> 02:49:47,920
stakeholder here. Um you know

4076
02:49:47,920 --> 02:49:49,600
particularly with regards to the civic

4077
02:49:49,600 --> 02:49:51,040
center of course you have your internal

4078
02:49:51,040 --> 02:49:53,279
stakeholders. you think of your police

4079
02:49:53,279 --> 02:49:55,920
department, think of your paramedics, uh

4080
02:49:55,920 --> 02:49:58,319
and we're also engaging with uh you

4081
02:49:58,319 --> 02:50:00,319
know, had a had a lengthy conversation

4082
02:50:00,319 --> 02:50:03,120
with the with the fire chief today. Um

4083
02:50:03,120 --> 02:50:05,600
and and those are critical stakeholders

4084
02:50:05,600 --> 02:50:07,920
that need to be engaged in this process.

4085
02:50:07,920 --> 02:50:09,920
So, there's opportunities to engage with

4086
02:50:09,920 --> 02:50:11,840
property owners, you know, certainly

4087
02:50:11,840 --> 02:50:13,920
your neighbors, the downtown, the Marine

4088
02:50:13,920 --> 02:50:16,560
Art and Garden Center, um, and and and

4089
02:50:16,560 --> 02:50:18,240
other stakeholders that you might see as

4090
02:50:18,240 --> 02:50:20,479
appropriate while again continuing to

4091
02:50:20,479 --> 02:50:26,160
provide and receive public input through notice council meetings. So, as

4092
02:50:26,160 --> 02:50:27,520
part of the professional services

4093
02:50:27,520 --> 02:50:29,920
agreement, uh, Gender's basic services

4094
02:50:29,920 --> 02:50:32,560
already include a a series of uh,

4095
02:50:32,560 --> 02:50:35,359
project milestone and meetings. Uh

4096
02:50:35,359 --> 02:50:37,120
again, you know, looking at that 12-week

4097
02:50:37,120 --> 02:50:39,359
schedule, we've got about eight meetings

4098
02:50:39,359 --> 02:50:42,319
included uh in in their in their scope

4099
02:50:42,319 --> 02:50:45,279
of work and it's clearly identified. Of

4100
02:50:45,279 --> 02:50:48,800
those, two are specifically uh scheduled

4101
02:50:48,800 --> 02:50:52,640
to bring those to to council uh which is

4102
02:50:52,640 --> 02:50:55,359
the uh administrative draft facilities

4103
02:50:55,359 --> 02:50:57,439
master plan and ultimately the final

4104
02:50:57,439 --> 02:50:59,439
master plan. So I think there's

4105
02:50:59,439 --> 02:51:02,880
opportunities to um with their proposal

4106
02:51:02,880 --> 02:51:04,399
is have a total of six additional

4107
02:51:04,399 --> 02:51:06,319
meetings. Three of which would be

4108
02:51:06,319 --> 02:51:09,359
scheduled uh virtually with the citizens

4109
02:51:09,359 --> 02:51:16,080
advisory committee again to give them uh feedback and overview of uh current

4110
02:51:16,080 --> 02:51:19,920
uh uh work to date. uh along with uh

4111
02:51:19,920 --> 02:51:23,200
three additional council meetings that

4112
02:51:23,200 --> 02:51:25,840
uh would provide uh opportunities to

4113
02:51:25,840 --> 02:51:28,080
bring back some of the key policy issues

4114
02:51:28,080 --> 02:51:29,680
to council on some of those meeting

4115
02:51:29,680 --> 02:51:31,120
dates that council has already

4116
02:51:31,120 --> 02:51:33,359
scheduled. The estimated cost for those

4117
02:51:33,359 --> 02:51:37,359
six meetings is uh $17,400.

4118
02:51:37,359 --> 02:51:40,160
Um and Gendler has advised that these

4119
02:51:40,160 --> 02:51:42,479
meetings can be incorporated within the

4120
02:51:42,479 --> 02:51:44,080
current project schedule. So that that

4121
02:51:44,080 --> 02:51:45,840
was that was kind of good news to hear

4122
02:51:45,840 --> 02:51:48,319
that. uh you know of course want to

4123
02:51:48,319 --> 02:51:50,960
caveat that that if as part of this

4124
02:51:50,960 --> 02:51:55,120
process and often what can happen is uh

4125
02:51:55,120 --> 02:51:57,040
the council can provide pro policy

4126
02:51:57,040 --> 02:52:00,319
direction that may uh require

4127
02:52:00,319 --> 02:52:02,560
substantial or significant revisions and

4128
02:52:02,560 --> 02:52:04,720
that could change the timeline uh that's

4129
02:52:04,720 --> 02:52:06,640
not anticipated or expected necessarily

4130
02:52:06,640 --> 02:52:10,160
just you know that's a cautionary note

4131
02:52:10,160 --> 02:52:12,720
um also I think what's important is to

4132
02:52:12,720 --> 02:52:14,640
speak a little bit regarding you know

4133
02:52:14,640 --> 02:52:16,160
governance

4134
02:52:16,160 --> 02:52:18,720
uh you know the town council clearly

4135
02:52:18,720 --> 02:52:21,200
established this policy. It's the town

4136
02:52:21,200 --> 02:52:24,080
manager's responsibility uh to continue

4137
02:52:24,080 --> 02:52:26,319
to administer the professional services

4138
02:52:26,319 --> 02:52:28,399
agreement. Um ultimately Gendzer is

4139
02:52:28,399 --> 02:52:30,319
going to provide those those those

4140
02:52:30,319 --> 02:52:33,200
independent professional uh advice and

4141
02:52:33,200 --> 02:52:34,560
they're going to send us invoices which

4142
02:52:34,560 --> 02:52:37,120
we're going to review. Um but the the

4143
02:52:37,120 --> 02:52:40,080
CAC's role as well as stakeholders would

4144
02:52:40,080 --> 02:52:43,439
be to provide uh valuable advisory input

4145
02:52:43,439 --> 02:52:46,160
to the council. Uh this the structure

4146
02:52:46,160 --> 02:52:47,840
that was identified in your agenda

4147
02:52:47,840 --> 02:52:51,040
report preserves accountability,

4148
02:52:51,040 --> 02:52:53,920
preserves transparency uh at a at a

4149
02:52:53,920 --> 02:52:57,040
relatively minor cost addition uh while

4150
02:52:57,040 --> 02:52:59,439
also providing the council to give you

4151
02:52:59,439 --> 02:53:02,960
know additional feedback that was you

4152
02:53:02,960 --> 02:53:05,439
know not built into the accelerated

4153
02:53:05,439 --> 02:53:08,000
project schedule uh uh that that came

4154
02:53:08,000 --> 02:53:09,760
before council.

4155
02:53:09,760 --> 02:53:11,359
So, so staff is really requesting

4156
02:53:11,359 --> 02:53:14,160
council direction uh again tonight

4157
02:53:14,160 --> 02:53:16,319
whether the council wishes to, you know,

4158
02:53:16,319 --> 02:53:18,319
establish those proposed, you know,

4159
02:53:18,319 --> 02:53:19,680
three additional meetings with the

4160
02:53:19,680 --> 02:53:22,399
citizens advisory committee. Uh whether

4161
02:53:22,399 --> 02:53:25,040
you would like us to uh build in some

4162
02:53:25,040 --> 02:53:27,279
additional uh community outreach and,

4163
02:53:27,279 --> 02:53:28,720
you know, I want to kind of hearken back

4164
02:53:28,720 --> 02:53:30,560
to the presentation that you had earlier

4165
02:53:30,560 --> 02:53:37,120
tonight uh from from Joy at Team Civics uh in regards to the value of

4166
02:53:37,120 --> 02:53:38,640
that community engagement. So I think

4167
02:53:38,640 --> 02:53:40,319
it, you know, she kind of sheds light on

4168
02:53:40,319 --> 02:53:42,640
some of the value that that can have.

4169
02:53:42,640 --> 02:53:44,880
Um, and with that, you know, I just want

4170
02:53:44,880 --> 02:53:47,920
to address a couple questions in advance

4171
02:53:47,920 --> 02:53:49,279
that council may have. You see, you

4172
02:53:49,279 --> 02:53:52,240
might ask, well, why can't CAC members

4173
02:53:52,240 --> 02:53:54,880
simply participate in in every weekly

4174
02:53:54,880 --> 02:53:56,880
meeting? Um, you know, I think our

4175
02:53:56,880 --> 02:53:58,720
answer is is that th those meetings

4176
02:53:58,720 --> 02:54:00,960
really function as as project management

4177
02:54:00,960 --> 02:54:03,200
meetings. You know, we're we're busy.

4178
02:54:03,200 --> 02:54:05,600
Uh, we have an hour. It's it's it's get

4179
02:54:05,600 --> 02:54:07,920
the work done. It's not not to present

4180
02:54:07,920 --> 02:54:11,680
information uh and and and you know ask

4181
02:54:11,680 --> 02:54:16,800
feedback. It's we're we're working uh to implement this critical project in a

4182
02:54:16,800 --> 02:54:19,040
short timeline. Uh the proposed

4183
02:54:19,040 --> 02:54:20,560
stakeholder meetings however would be

4184
02:54:20,560 --> 02:54:22,160
intended to provide meaningful

4185
02:54:22,160 --> 02:54:25,040
opportunities for the CAC to really ask

4186
02:54:25,040 --> 02:54:26,800
questions and and give Ginsler an

4187
02:54:26,800 --> 02:54:28,479
opportunity to present some of the

4188
02:54:28,479 --> 02:54:31,040
material that's been uh prepared to

4189
02:54:31,040 --> 02:54:34,000
date. Um you might say, well, why only

4190
02:54:34,000 --> 02:54:36,080
three CAC meetings? Well, we're on a

4191
02:54:36,080 --> 02:54:37,680
12-week schedule. We're one week into

4192
02:54:37,680 --> 02:54:41,120
that. We we uh you know are again

4193
02:54:41,120 --> 02:54:44,240
working diligently to uh you know to to

4194
02:54:44,240 --> 02:54:46,880
complete the uh amendment in time and

4195
02:54:46,880 --> 02:54:48,960
really to kind of target what are the

4196
02:54:48,960 --> 02:54:50,880
key deliverables and where is that

4197
02:54:50,880 --> 02:54:52,880
feedback going to be mo of most value.

4198
02:54:52,880 --> 02:54:55,680
Uh some potential items might include

4199
02:54:55,680 --> 02:54:57,760
presentation of the blocking and stack

4200
02:54:57,760 --> 02:55:00,160
stacking program to kind of see how that

4201
02:55:00,160 --> 02:55:02,319
relates and does that fit and validate

4202
02:55:02,319 --> 02:55:05,520
the CAC concept. uh presentation of you

4203
02:55:05,520 --> 02:55:07,520
know the massing the site analysis and

4204
02:55:07,520 --> 02:55:09,520
technical narratives and and maybe

4205
02:55:09,520 --> 02:55:11,120
presentation of cost estimates. So

4206
02:55:11,120 --> 02:55:12,880
that's just my take on what might three

4207
02:55:12,880 --> 02:55:14,640
meetings might look like. There's a lot

4208
02:55:14,640 --> 02:55:17,680
in that. Uh and those of course are are

4209
02:55:17,680 --> 02:55:20,319
similarly are those items are the things

4210
02:55:20,319 --> 02:55:21,680
that could be part of those three

4211
02:55:21,680 --> 02:55:23,680
meetings that come come back to to

4212
02:55:23,680 --> 02:55:28,800
council. Um again you may ask well why include the neighbors? Uh why

4213
02:55:28,800 --> 02:55:30,160
include the marine and art and garden

4214
02:55:30,160 --> 02:55:33,040
center? Well, um you know, there there's

4215
02:55:33,040 --> 02:55:35,760
a whole number of issues uh that this

4216
02:55:35,760 --> 02:55:37,680
the master plan amendment is going to

4217
02:55:37,680 --> 02:55:40,399
address as as we've talked uh quite a

4218
02:55:40,399 --> 02:55:44,960
bit about. Um you know, the building we all love the design. I think the CAC

4219
02:55:44,960 --> 02:55:46,960
did a a fantastic job, but there were

4220
02:55:46,960 --> 02:55:48,560
some there was still some work to do

4221
02:55:48,560 --> 02:55:52,240
regarding uh circulation uh access. How

4222
02:55:52,240 --> 02:55:54,800
can we tie in potentially Laurel Grove?

4223
02:55:54,800 --> 02:55:57,120
Uh do we have an additional access point

4224
02:55:57,120 --> 02:56:00,319
on on Lagonas? Uh what about

4225
02:56:00,319 --> 02:56:02,080
construction impacts? What about

4226
02:56:02,080 --> 02:56:04,479
sequencing? And can we maybe use the the

4227
02:56:04,479 --> 02:56:06,080
parking lot at Marin and Art Garden

4228
02:56:06,080 --> 02:56:08,560
Center? Uh you know, those those are

4229
02:56:08,560 --> 02:56:11,920
some questions that we may want to uh uh

4230
02:56:11,920 --> 02:56:14,800
answer as we go through this process. Um

4231
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:16,560
so those are just some things for you

4232
02:56:16,560 --> 02:56:18,880
for to think about as part of this uh

4233
02:56:18,880 --> 02:56:20,399
agenda item tonight. That really

4234
02:56:20,399 --> 02:56:22,319
concludes my presentation overview.

4235
02:56:22,319 --> 02:56:23,520
There's quite a bit in the agenda

4236
02:56:23,520 --> 02:56:25,279
report, but happy to entertain any

4237
02:56:25,279 --> 02:56:27,439
questions that council uh may have about

4238
02:56:27,439 --> 02:56:29,279
this item.

4239
02:56:29,279 --> 02:56:31,040
questions.

4240
02:56:31,040 --> 02:56:34,720
>> Okay. Um I understand the three meetings

4241
02:56:34,720 --> 02:56:36,960
with the citizens advisory council,

4242
02:56:36,960 --> 02:56:40,399
those will be three one-hour um online

4243
02:56:40,399 --> 02:56:42,240
meetings.

4244
02:56:42,240 --> 02:56:44,479
Where is there an opportunity for Marin

4245
02:56:44,479 --> 02:56:47,439
Art and Gardens and um maybe the

4246
02:56:47,439 --> 02:56:50,880
neighbors and others to also hear what's

4247
02:56:50,880 --> 02:56:52,800
going on and to give feedback? Where

4248
02:56:52,800 --> 02:56:55,279
does that take place? in the town

4249
02:56:55,279 --> 02:56:57,439
council meetings

4250
02:56:57,439 --> 02:57:00,880
>> currently that is

4251
02:57:00,880 --> 02:57:03,680
that there is no specific uh community

4252
02:57:03,680 --> 02:57:06,800
workshops identified in the work that's

4253
02:57:06,800 --> 02:57:09,359
being performed by Gendler. Uh the

4254
02:57:09,359 --> 02:57:12,560
vision in part was to uh be able to

4255
02:57:12,560 --> 02:57:14,960
broadcast to that community as part of

4256
02:57:14,960 --> 02:57:16,960
uh the these additional uh council

4257
02:57:16,960 --> 02:57:19,520
meetings. Uh but if council desired,

4258
02:57:19,520 --> 02:57:21,120
that's certainly something we could, you

4259
02:57:21,120 --> 02:57:23,040
know, try to work with Gendler to

4260
02:57:23,040 --> 02:57:24,720
identify if we want to have, you know,

4261
02:57:24,720 --> 02:57:27,680
build in a community workshop uh as part

4262
02:57:27,680 --> 02:57:29,600
of as part of this effort and there's

4263
02:57:29,600 --> 02:57:31,279
value in that. But otherwise, we

4264
02:57:31,279 --> 02:57:33,439
certainly uh could do that as part of a

4265
02:57:33,439 --> 02:57:36,000
council meeting. Uh especially if it's a

4266
02:57:36,000 --> 02:57:38,479
special date where uh there's no other

4267
02:57:38,479 --> 02:57:43,680
agenda items, you know, uh through the town manager's office, uh

4268
02:57:43,680 --> 02:57:46,399
invite uh our stakeholders to attend and

4269
02:57:46,399 --> 02:57:48,800
participate uh you know, and and

4270
02:57:48,800 --> 02:57:51,279
specifically invite them to do that. So

4271
02:57:51,279 --> 02:57:52,640
there's there's some there's some

4272
02:57:52,640 --> 02:57:58,560
opportunities to try to uh engage with our our stakeholders as well.

4273
02:57:58,560 --> 02:58:00,880
>> Okay.

4274
02:58:00,880 --> 02:58:02,000
But, you know, again, given the

4275
02:58:02,000 --> 02:58:04,800
consolidated schedule and the desire to

4276
02:58:04,800 --> 02:58:07,279
that was something that was, you know,

4277
02:58:07,279 --> 02:58:09,120
kind of set aside because the the

4278
02:58:09,120 --> 02:58:11,760
schedule is just it's is just uh so

4279
02:58:11,760 --> 02:58:15,830
>> it's tight. Yeah.

4280
02:58:15,840 --> 02:58:18,560
» Do you want to

4281
02:58:18,560 --> 02:58:21,760
>> So, we hear a a lot of time um when

4282
02:58:21,760 --> 02:58:23,279
we're asking about items that, you know,

4283
02:58:23,279 --> 02:58:25,439
the staff, we don't have time for this.

4284
02:58:25,439 --> 02:58:27,920
We're we're small staff.

4285
02:58:27,920 --> 02:58:31,279
These are experts who've put together a

4286
02:58:31,279 --> 02:58:33,279
plan in four months that I think the

4287
02:58:33,279 --> 02:58:37,600
town took years to develop. Why not rely

4288
02:58:37,600 --> 02:58:41,359
and use these amazing resources

4289
02:58:41,359 --> 02:58:43,600
that you have at your disposal? Why why

4290
02:58:43,600 --> 02:58:45,200
not just include them in your working

4291
02:58:45,200 --> 02:58:46,399
group?

4292
02:58:46,399 --> 02:58:48,960
>> Well, uh I I I think council member

4293
02:58:48,960 --> 02:58:51,359
Salar, you know, tried to answer that

4294
02:58:51,359 --> 02:58:53,600
question. Um

4295
02:58:53,600 --> 02:58:55,279
you know, it gets to to project

4296
02:58:55,279 --> 02:58:58,000
management. Uh you know, it's it's it's

4297
02:58:58,000 --> 02:59:00,640
very um there there's a lot of work to

4298
02:59:00,640 --> 02:59:01,840
do and

4299
02:59:01,840 --> 02:59:03,040
>> No, no, but they're willing to raise

4300
02:59:03,040 --> 02:59:05,520
their hands and help. So, I I don't I

4301
02:59:05,520 --> 02:59:09,200
what I don't look at I look at this is group is you have at your

4302
02:59:09,200 --> 02:59:11,920
disposal incredible volunteer experts

4303
02:59:11,920 --> 02:59:14,000
that are highly motivated to get this

4304
02:59:14,000 --> 02:59:15,840
project done and know it better than

4305
02:59:15,840 --> 02:59:18,479
you. Why not just include if they're

4306
02:59:18,479 --> 02:59:20,000
willing to be a part of the meetings and

4307
02:59:20,000 --> 02:59:21,520
help move this project along, why

4308
02:59:21,520 --> 02:59:23,040
wouldn't you just want them to be a part

4309
02:59:23,040 --> 02:59:24,880
of the group? Well, I I'll give you an

4310
02:59:24,880 --> 02:59:27,120
example uh and maybe this will shed some

4311
02:59:27,120 --> 02:59:30,000
light um on your on your question. Uh

4312
02:59:30,000 --> 02:59:32,080
one of the requests of our meeting this

4313
02:59:32,080 --> 02:59:35,200
week was to validate the the space

4314
02:59:35,200 --> 02:59:37,439
program that was prepared previously

4315
02:59:37,439 --> 02:59:41,680
prepared by KPA. Um that is really an

4316
02:59:41,680 --> 02:59:44,160
internal engagement process with both

4317
02:59:44,160 --> 02:59:46,479
our police chief, our fire chief, the

4318
02:59:46,479 --> 02:59:49,840
paramedic authority, uh the planning

4319
02:59:49,840 --> 02:59:51,680
department, the town manager, the town

4320
02:59:51,680 --> 02:59:56,560
clerk, and um in in my view certainly uh

4321
02:59:56,560 --> 02:59:59,359
I think and I'm sure in Chris's view uh

4322
02:59:59,359 --> 03:00:02,319
that's that's best handled by by staff

4323
03:00:02,319 --> 03:00:04,640
uh you know to delegate that kind of you

4324
03:00:04,640 --> 03:00:07,200
know internal stakeholder work to a

4325
03:00:07,200 --> 03:00:09,120
group of outside I'm not saying to do

4326
03:00:09,120 --> 03:00:11,439
that. I So the whole thing is you you

4327
03:00:11,439 --> 03:00:13,359
want to have three extra meetings and we

4328
03:00:13,359 --> 03:00:14,720
we're supposed to pay extra money for

4329
03:00:14,720 --> 03:00:17,040
these extra meetings. Why not just have

4330
03:00:17,040 --> 03:00:18,720
them part of the working group? They sit

4331
03:00:18,720 --> 03:00:20,319
in the meeting there. I'm not asking you

4332
03:00:20,319 --> 03:00:22,160
to delegate anything that they wouldn't

4333
03:00:22,160 --> 03:00:24,479
do, but these people might be willing to

4334
03:00:24,479 --> 03:00:26,399
help out in other areas or have

4335
03:00:26,399 --> 03:00:28,240
expertise and be able to handle and help

4336
03:00:28,240 --> 03:00:30,560
with the project. I I think as we read

4337
03:00:30,560 --> 03:00:34,960
their their request um it was to ensure

4338
03:00:34,960 --> 03:00:36,960
that their professional input is

4339
03:00:36,960 --> 03:00:39,120
received in a timely manner before other

4340
03:00:39,120 --> 03:00:42,399
key decisions were made so that it you

4341
03:00:42,399 --> 03:00:45,200
you're uh avoided having to kind of

4342
03:00:45,200 --> 03:00:48,399
return back and you lose some time and

4343
03:00:48,399 --> 03:00:50,399
so uh that that's why I think the

4344
03:00:50,399 --> 03:00:53,840
structure was developed uh to to address

4345
03:00:53,840 --> 03:00:55,920
you know specifically their their

4346
03:00:55,920 --> 03:00:58,640
requests was to make sure they're prized

4347
03:00:58,640 --> 03:01:02,080
you not on a on a on a you know a month

4348
03:01:02,080 --> 03:01:04,640
a one month basis at council meetings.

4349
03:01:04,640 --> 03:01:07,600
It's their prize on some of the critical

4350
03:01:07,600 --> 03:01:12,160
uh updates that um uh are made by by

4351
03:01:12,160 --> 03:01:14,880
Gendler as part of their work. And this

4352
03:01:14,880 --> 03:01:16,800
is really about being strategic with

4353
03:01:16,800 --> 03:01:19,840
both their time, Gendler's time and and

4354
03:01:19,840 --> 03:01:23,760
our time uh and and and complete in

4355
03:01:23,760 --> 03:01:25,359
completing the work. I think that's

4356
03:01:25,359 --> 03:01:27,040
really the reflection. Um,

4357
03:01:27,040 --> 03:01:29,200
>> so you think they would slow you down?

4358
03:01:29,200 --> 03:01:30,880
>> I I think Well, I think there's an

4359
03:01:30,880 --> 03:01:34,720
element of when you have additional uh I

4360
03:01:34,720 --> 03:01:37,040
think as they they say uh too many cooks

4361
03:01:37,040 --> 03:01:40,240
ruin the stew. Uh and you know that

4362
03:01:40,240 --> 03:01:42,800
that's only an addage of course, but uh

4363
03:01:42,800 --> 03:01:47,680
you know we we we were we were work our kickoff meeting it was we went to

4364
03:01:47,680 --> 03:01:50,080
work very quickly. Uh I'm not sure

4365
03:01:50,080 --> 03:01:56,240
that's of value to the CAC members uh in doing this kind of working stuff. uh

4366
03:01:56,240 --> 03:01:58,960
that's really in my mind uh a staff's

4367
03:01:58,960 --> 03:02:01,439
role. Uh but where there's a lot of

4368
03:02:01,439 --> 03:02:05,760
value is on these kind of uh critical

4369
03:02:05,760 --> 03:02:09,520
uh bigger picture uh items that you know

4370
03:02:09,520 --> 03:02:11,760
like the blocking analysis, the massing,

4371
03:02:11,760 --> 03:02:14,080
the site analysis where there there's

4372
03:02:14,080 --> 03:02:16,000
going to be opportunities for some real

4373
03:02:16,000 --> 03:02:18,080
critical feedback and input before you

4374
03:02:18,080 --> 03:02:20,560
advance to that next stage. And I I I

4375
03:02:20,560 --> 03:02:25,760
guess we see real value in that. Um and you know it's respectful of their

4376
03:02:25,760 --> 03:02:27,600
time. It's respectful of Gendler's time.

4377
03:02:27,600 --> 03:02:29,680
It's respectful of of staff's time.

4378
03:02:29,680 --> 03:02:31,439
>> Okay. And one other question is just in

4379
03:02:31,439 --> 03:02:33,760
the scope. Why was schematic design

4380
03:02:33,760 --> 03:02:35,439
removed from the scope?

4381
03:02:35,439 --> 03:02:37,680
>> Well well schematic design I think uh

4382
03:02:37,680 --> 03:02:39,359
from my perspective I did not hear

4383
03:02:39,359 --> 03:02:42,000
council uh consensus that schematic

4384
03:02:42,000 --> 03:02:46,640
design was uh uh you know the direction

4385
03:02:46,640 --> 03:02:49,520
was to include the schematic design. I

4386
03:02:49,520 --> 03:02:51,920
know there was correspondence uh to that

4387
03:02:51,920 --> 03:02:55,520
effect that there was a view that it was

4388
03:02:55,520 --> 03:03:00,640
uh our intent was to um develop and

4389
03:03:00,640 --> 03:03:03,200
complete the master planning process to

4390
03:03:03,200 --> 03:03:07,200
provide a uh a a you know a complete

4391
03:03:07,200 --> 03:03:09,439
plan uh provide the project description

4392
03:03:09,439 --> 03:03:12,319
so we can begin SQUA and then uh very

4393
03:03:12,319 --> 03:03:16,319
importantly to have a cost estimate that

4394
03:03:16,319 --> 03:03:18,479
is going to support you know council's

4395
03:03:18,479 --> 03:03:24,800
's uh desire or or um inform council's

4396
03:03:24,800 --> 03:03:26,800
question is about whether to place a

4397
03:03:26,800 --> 03:03:28,080
measure on the ballot.

4398
03:03:28,080 --> 03:03:30,080
>> Yeah. So I just to be on the schematic

4399
03:03:30,080 --> 03:03:32,080
design point, the reason for it is to be

4400
03:03:32,080 --> 03:03:33,840
able to come up with a good cost

4401
03:03:33,840 --> 03:03:36,160
estimate. The schematic designs are very

4402
03:03:36,160 --> 03:03:37,520
helpful for that.

4403
03:03:37,520 --> 03:03:39,680
>> Um I just want to I just want to

4404
03:03:39,680 --> 03:03:42,720
interject here is that the schematic

4405
03:03:42,720 --> 03:03:44,960
design was not removed from the scope.

4406
03:03:44,960 --> 03:03:48,399
It was never in there. the council we

4407
03:03:48,399 --> 03:03:51,760
brought forward a request for proposals.

4408
03:03:51,760 --> 03:03:54,399
It did not include that the council at

4409
03:03:54,399 --> 03:03:56,319
length discussed this issue and there

4410
03:03:56,319 --> 03:03:58,960
was not con council consensus to put

4411
03:03:58,960 --> 03:04:02,319
schematic design um into the scope of

4412
03:04:02,319 --> 03:04:04,399
work. So it was never there. Therefore

4413
03:04:04,399 --> 03:04:06,080
it was not removed. So I just want to

4414
03:04:06,080 --> 03:04:07,279
make sure you you understand that

4415
03:04:07,279 --> 03:04:09,040
council member Salter. We did not remove

4416
03:04:09,040 --> 03:04:10,800
>> it was in the Gendler contract and it

4417
03:04:10,800 --> 03:04:12,319
was removed from the Gendler contract.

4418
03:04:12,319 --> 03:04:12,960
>> No sir

4419
03:04:12,960 --> 03:04:14,800
>> from the the original contract that they

4420
03:04:14,800 --> 03:04:15,680
proposed was never

4421
03:04:15,680 --> 03:04:19,200
>> No, sir. They responded to

4422
03:04:19,200 --> 03:04:21,520
the requests for proposals document that

4423
03:04:21,520 --> 03:04:23,439
the council

4424
03:04:23,439 --> 03:04:26,960
approved at a council meeting

4425
03:04:26,960 --> 03:04:30,960
>> and we when we um did bring the the uh

4426
03:04:30,960 --> 03:04:33,520
RFP forward, there's a presentation that

4427
03:04:33,520 --> 03:04:35,760
I remember outlined for council that

4428
03:04:35,760 --> 03:04:38,800
there was opportunities to go beyond you

4429
03:04:38,800 --> 03:04:41,920
know uh uh you know completing the

4430
03:04:41,920 --> 03:04:44,080
master plan which maybe included some

4431
03:04:44,080 --> 03:04:46,000
enhanced planning

4432
03:04:46,000 --> 03:04:48,800
doing some more uh uh you know more

4433
03:04:48,800 --> 03:04:51,359
detailed site work, not with the the

4434
03:04:51,359 --> 03:04:52,880
belief that it's necessarily going to

4435
03:04:52,880 --> 03:04:55,120
give us a better cost picture. It's

4436
03:04:55,120 --> 03:04:57,279
really just going to provide you know

4437
03:04:57,279 --> 03:05:02,800
more detailed site information uh for council's consideration. Uh but

4438
03:05:02,800 --> 03:05:07,040
council uh did not opt for that that option that was presented. So we

4439
03:05:07,040 --> 03:05:09,120
you know that that was not included. Um

4440
03:05:09,120 --> 03:05:11,120
I I kind of actually liked it just from

4441
03:05:11,120 --> 03:05:17,040
being a a planner. Uh but uh uh I again

4442
03:05:17,040 --> 03:05:18,640
we we just I'm just saying that because

4443
03:05:18,640 --> 03:05:20,240
we did provide council with that

4444
03:05:20,240 --> 03:05:22,960
opportunity and and council we didn't

4445
03:05:22,960 --> 03:05:24,720
get direction to include that in the in

4446
03:05:24,720 --> 03:05:25,760
the RP.

4447
03:05:25,760 --> 03:05:27,439
>> Okay. Thank you.

4448
03:05:27,439 --> 03:05:30,960
>> Is it is it helpful that

4449
03:05:30,960 --> 03:05:33,040
is it helpful to add some of that back

4450
03:05:33,040 --> 03:05:35,120
to get better cost estimates? My

4451
03:05:35,120 --> 03:05:37,200
understanding was that what we have now

4452
03:05:37,200 --> 03:05:39,520
is is is a master plan update that

4453
03:05:39,520 --> 03:05:41,680
doesn't move us closer to getting

4454
03:05:41,680 --> 03:05:43,120
something on the ballot because we don't

4455
03:05:43,120 --> 03:05:45,600
have a good enough cost estimate. So, is

4456
03:05:45,600 --> 03:05:47,359
it possible to add back some of that to

4457
03:05:47,359 --> 03:05:49,439
get a better cost estimate? Well, well,

4458
03:05:49,439 --> 03:05:51,520
Mayor Mayor Prom, I guess, um, I I would

4459
03:05:51,520 --> 03:05:54,080
just share with you, I think, in terms

4460
03:05:54,080 --> 03:05:57,200
of our analysis and in discussions with

4461
03:05:57,200 --> 03:05:59,760
Griffin Structures, uh, as well as

4462
03:05:59,760 --> 03:06:04,160
other, uh, municipal uh, staff, uh,

4463
03:06:04,160 --> 03:06:06,080
other city managers that we've had this

4464
03:06:06,080 --> 03:06:08,399
discussion with regarding uh, how

4465
03:06:08,399 --> 03:06:10,080
detailed do you get with your cost

4466
03:06:10,080 --> 03:06:16,800
estimates? Uh, you know, ultimately the gold standard is you go out to bid

4467
03:06:16,800 --> 03:06:18,720
and you know, sometimes if you don't

4468
03:06:18,720 --> 03:06:20,160
have money in hand, that's that's a

4469
03:06:20,160 --> 03:06:22,880
little that's a little late. Uh uh but

4470
03:06:22,880 --> 03:06:24,720
that that there are so many

4471
03:06:24,720 --> 03:06:27,680
uncertainties in the market regarding uh

4472
03:06:27,680 --> 03:06:29,200
tariffs

4473
03:06:29,200 --> 03:06:33,760
uh inflation rates uh you know material

4474
03:06:33,760 --> 03:06:37,600
unknowns and uncertainties that even

4475
03:06:37,600 --> 03:06:40,880
with schematic design. you're still

4476
03:06:40,880 --> 03:06:43,920
going to have contingencies that aren't

4477
03:06:43,920 --> 03:06:46,960
necessarily going to guarantee you a

4478
03:06:46,960 --> 03:06:48,880
better number at the end of the day

4479
03:06:48,880 --> 03:06:52,880
that's going to garner uh voter support.

4480
03:06:52,880 --> 03:06:55,439
uh you know a lot of when municipalities

4481
03:06:55,439 --> 03:06:58,560
bring forward measures for geo bonds for

4482
03:06:58,560 --> 03:07:01,760
projects and capital facilities

4483
03:07:01,760 --> 03:07:03,439
a big part of that is what does the

4484
03:07:03,439 --> 03:07:05,760
picture look like and what are the

4485
03:07:05,760 --> 03:07:07,840
services that is going to enable you

4486
03:07:07,840 --> 03:07:14,000
know kind of a lot of those things that Joy spoke to uh it it there's uh

4487
03:07:14,000 --> 03:07:16,560
it's not always necessarily

4488
03:07:16,560 --> 03:07:20,160
uh just exact confidence around the cost

4489
03:07:20,160 --> 03:07:22,240
of the project and of course council

4490
03:07:22,240 --> 03:07:25,439
still has to make a decision around, you

4491
03:07:25,439 --> 03:07:27,200
know, I think you mentioned it earlier

4492
03:07:27,200 --> 03:07:29,760
this evening, council member Salter, is

4493
03:07:29,760 --> 03:07:33,600
you the the the staff has this or the um

4494
03:07:33,600 --> 03:07:36,560
the the the the town has this budget

4495
03:07:36,560 --> 03:07:39,040
reserve and how do you want to factor

4496
03:07:39,040 --> 03:07:41,520
that in in terms of, you know, what you

4497
03:07:41,520 --> 03:07:44,000
ask the voters for? So there's there's

4498
03:07:44,000 --> 03:07:46,479
some complexities around, you know,

4499
03:07:46,479 --> 03:07:48,000
ultimately what your ask is of the

4500
03:07:48,000 --> 03:07:50,479
voters and it's it's not all going to

4501
03:07:50,479 --> 03:07:53,120
hinge on just how refined that cost

4502
03:07:53,120 --> 03:07:56,399
estimate is going to be uh in terms of

4503
03:07:56,399 --> 03:07:58,720
the uh you know delivering delivering

4504
03:07:58,720 --> 03:08:02,080
the project. There's there's so

4505
03:08:02,080 --> 03:08:03,840
what what we've been told based on

4506
03:08:03,840 --> 03:08:06,640
expert input is having a planning level

4507
03:08:06,640 --> 03:08:08,479
cost estimate building in appropriate

4508
03:08:08,479 --> 03:08:14,399
contingencies is more than sufficient to be able to go to the voters to get

4509
03:08:14,399 --> 03:08:18,560
their support uh for for a geo bond.

4510
03:08:18,560 --> 03:08:20,160
>> I also have something to add to that. I

4511
03:08:20,160 --> 03:08:22,080
think one thing we haven't talked about

4512
03:08:22,080 --> 03:08:25,120
but it was on an earlier agenda item the

4513
03:08:25,120 --> 03:08:27,840
alternative methods for contracting. The

4514
03:08:27,840 --> 03:08:30,080
more Gensler starts designing this and

4515
03:08:30,080 --> 03:08:31,840
doing more specific drawings, they are

4516
03:08:31,840 --> 03:08:33,600
going to disqualify themselves from if

4517
03:08:33,600 --> 03:08:35,439
the council later wants to do design

4518
03:08:35,439 --> 03:08:38,640
build. That's just a fact. So with the

4519
03:08:38,640 --> 03:08:40,720
more generic process that we're

4520
03:08:40,720 --> 03:08:43,040
following now to get a cost estimate,

4521
03:08:43,040 --> 03:08:45,200
they still will be able to build bid in

4522
03:08:45,200 --> 03:08:46,880
the future on a design build if the

4523
03:08:46,880 --> 03:08:48,880
council wants to go down that road. But

4524
03:08:48,880 --> 03:08:50,479
if Gensler starts getting very specific

4525
03:08:50,479 --> 03:08:52,399
about what this building looks like,

4526
03:08:52,399 --> 03:08:54,240
they they can no longer bid bid under

4527
03:08:54,240 --> 03:08:56,080
California state law on that design

4528
03:08:56,080 --> 03:08:58,319
build ultimate project. So that's one of

4529
03:08:58,319 --> 03:09:00,720
the other reasons why it's important to

4530
03:09:00,720 --> 03:09:03,040
make sure we don't have a contract now

4531
03:09:03,040 --> 03:09:05,439
that limits the council from using any

4532
03:09:05,439 --> 03:09:09,120
architects in the future.

4533
03:09:09,120 --> 03:09:13,279
So I have another question just

4534
03:09:13,279 --> 03:09:15,600
why do you think this has become so

4535
03:09:15,600 --> 03:09:17,359
controversial and such a big deal to

4536
03:09:17,359 --> 03:09:21,920
have one or two uh CAC members at the at

4537
03:09:21,920 --> 03:09:24,000
the what you call the project management

4538
03:09:24,000 --> 03:09:27,680
meetings. I mean I I see it as just uh

4539
03:09:27,680 --> 03:09:30,640
expertise, transparency, trust,

4540
03:09:30,640 --> 03:09:33,600
oversight. It's just it's not to derail

4541
03:09:33,600 --> 03:09:36,080
the process is not to take it longer,

4542
03:09:36,080 --> 03:09:38,000
not to have it take longer. I don't I

4543
03:09:38,000 --> 03:09:39,520
just don't understand. Why do you think

4544
03:09:39,520 --> 03:09:42,000
it's become such a big deal? It seems so

4545
03:09:42,000 --> 03:09:44,479
easy to me to say, "Great, let's all

4546
03:09:44,479 --> 03:09:46,640
work together."

4547
03:09:46,640 --> 03:09:48,960
>> Um, Mayor Prom, that is such a loaded

4548
03:09:48,960 --> 03:09:51,040
question and it's not fair to ask a

4549
03:09:51,040 --> 03:09:53,200
staff member. First of all, I'm not even

4550
03:09:53,200 --> 03:10:02,800
sure it really is a question. So, um, we have come to the council. You have

4551
03:10:02,800 --> 03:10:05,600
we brought you We have literally met

4552
03:10:05,600 --> 03:10:08,160
with you probably 10 times in the last

4553
03:10:08,160 --> 03:10:10,399
two and a half months with specific

4554
03:10:10,399 --> 03:10:13,200
agenda items gotten specific direction

4555
03:10:13,200 --> 03:10:16,080
from you attached the actual request

4556
03:10:16,080 --> 03:10:18,720
proposals attached to the contract. You

4557
03:10:18,720 --> 03:10:22,080
had the opportunity literally

4558
03:10:22,080 --> 03:10:25,840
nine days ago the council was here at a

4559
03:10:25,840 --> 03:10:28,080
special meeting. You had the contract

4560
03:10:28,080 --> 03:10:30,800
attached the complete every single page

4561
03:10:30,800 --> 03:10:32,560
of that contract was attached to the

4562
03:10:32,560 --> 03:10:36,160
staff report. You could have you you had

4563
03:10:36,160 --> 03:10:38,479
plenty of opportunity at that time, but

4564
03:10:38,479 --> 03:10:41,680
you directed me to execute that

4565
03:10:41,680 --> 03:10:44,319
agreement as is as it was attached,

4566
03:10:44,319 --> 03:10:46,479
which I literally did. I think I signed

4567
03:10:46,479 --> 03:10:48,479
it that night. It was executed

4568
03:10:48,479 --> 03:10:50,800
definitely by the next day. Gendler, our

4569
03:10:50,800 --> 03:10:52,720
project team, they immediately got to

4570
03:10:52,720 --> 03:10:55,600
work. We had our first meeting um with

4571
03:10:55,600 --> 03:10:58,399
us as staff on Monday. We had, as I

4572
03:10:58,399 --> 03:11:00,399
mentioned earlier this evening, we had

4573
03:11:00,399 --> 03:11:03,040
our fir we have we had homework. We had

4574
03:11:03,040 --> 03:11:05,120
we have deadlines today. The this is the

4575
03:11:05,120 --> 03:11:07,920
week that we're supposed to be um ve

4576
03:11:07,920 --> 03:11:11,200
verifying the programming. So, and we

4577
03:11:11,200 --> 03:11:12,960
are working very hard now that we have

4578
03:11:12,960 --> 03:11:14,399
set up these special meetings with the

4579
03:11:14,399 --> 03:11:16,800
council and you've set it aside on your

4580
03:11:16,800 --> 03:11:18,560
very busy schedule. We got to have

4581
03:11:18,560 --> 03:11:19,840
something we need to bring forward to

4582
03:11:19,840 --> 03:11:23,120
you. And as you recall, Mayor Prom, when

4583
03:11:23,120 --> 03:11:25,359
you and the mayor sat in with the

4584
03:11:25,359 --> 03:11:28,319
interviews for three the three top

4585
03:11:28,319 --> 03:11:31,200
architect engineering firms is that

4586
03:11:31,200 --> 03:11:33,200
every single one of those firms, their

4587
03:11:33,200 --> 03:11:35,760
project teams mentioned that it was

4588
03:11:35,760 --> 03:11:38,080
critical for them to be able to get this

4589
03:11:38,080 --> 03:11:39,920
project done in this aggressive time

4590
03:11:39,920 --> 03:11:42,720
frame. It was critical that they had

4591
03:11:42,720 --> 03:11:45,920
very fast decision making

4592
03:11:45,920 --> 03:11:48,160
decisions made by the decision makers.

4593
03:11:48,160 --> 03:11:50,000
And so one of the first questions this

4594
03:11:50,000 --> 03:11:52,160
past Monday that the Gendler project

4595
03:11:52,160 --> 03:11:56,319
team asked David and I was, "Okay, um,

4596
03:11:56,319 --> 03:11:58,640
David, are David and Christa the the

4597
03:11:58,640 --> 03:12:01,439
decision makers on this project?" And I

4598
03:12:01,439 --> 03:12:06,880
immediately said, "Well, no, the council is the decision makers, and

4599
03:12:06,880 --> 03:12:11,279
you have a lot of um, you have a lot of

4600
03:12:11,279 --> 03:12:12,880
complex

4601
03:12:12,880 --> 03:12:14,560
important decisions you're going to have

4602
03:12:14,560 --> 03:12:16,399
to make, and we are going to be bringing

4603
03:12:16,399 --> 03:12:20,880
them forward to you. We're doing it. You are the ones that put together this

4604
03:12:20,880 --> 03:12:24,479
12 12 week. It's I've been saying all

4605
03:12:24,479 --> 03:12:26,399
along it is very aggressive. So, we're

4606
03:12:26,399 --> 03:12:31,520
doing our best to meet it. Um

4607
03:12:31,520 --> 03:12:33,680
I'm just going to sidestep the other

4608
03:12:33,680 --> 03:12:35,680
issues, but you you do you do operate

4609
03:12:35,680 --> 03:12:37,279
under a council manager form of

4610
03:12:37,279 --> 03:12:38,319
government.

4611
03:12:38,319 --> 03:12:40,720
>> I guess one question when there are some

4612
03:12:40,720 --> 03:12:43,680
of the difficult tradeoffs um you know,

4613
03:12:43,680 --> 03:12:46,000
do does the road connect to Laurel

4614
03:12:46,000 --> 03:12:49,600
Grove? Do we do we have space for police

4615
03:12:49,600 --> 03:12:51,920
parking? Some of those uh how do we how

4616
03:12:51,920 --> 03:12:54,080
do we plan out the space? Will those be

4617
03:12:54,080 --> 03:12:55,760
things that come to the council so we

4618
03:12:55,760 --> 03:12:58,479
can share uh and the public can share

4619
03:12:58,479 --> 03:13:00,160
opinions one way or the other or will

4620
03:13:00,160 --> 03:13:02,080
those get decided in the project

4621
03:13:02,080 --> 03:13:06,230
management meetings?

4622
03:13:06,240 --> 03:13:10,080
» Um I Okay. Yes, absolutely. We have been

4623
03:13:10,080 --> 03:13:15,279
telling the council all along when you had your April 29th meeting and

4624
03:13:15,279 --> 03:13:18,800
again on May 6th and again on June 24th

4625
03:13:18,800 --> 03:13:21,279
and on June 13th,

4626
03:13:21,279 --> 03:13:23,439
these issues we have we have been the

4627
03:13:23,439 --> 03:13:25,040
ones that have been bringing forward

4628
03:13:25,040 --> 03:13:26,880
these highlighting these issues to the

4629
03:13:26,880 --> 03:13:29,200
council that are issues that need to be

4630
03:13:29,200 --> 03:13:32,160
addressed that are not in your preferred

4631
03:13:32,160 --> 03:13:36,319
concept which is now the CAC concept. So

4632
03:13:36,319 --> 03:13:38,080
absolutely, David and I are not going to

4633
03:13:38,080 --> 03:13:40,000
be the ones that are saying,"Oh, let's

4634
03:13:40,000 --> 03:13:41,760
get rid of that or let's do this." Those

4635
03:13:41,760 --> 03:13:43,439
are council decisions that you need to

4636
03:13:43,439 --> 03:13:45,520
make in a public setting so that you

4637
03:13:45,520 --> 03:13:47,040
have the opportunity from hear from the

4638
03:13:47,040 --> 03:13:49,760
public, not just from the CAC folks, but

4639
03:13:49,760 --> 03:13:51,840
the rest of your residents.

4640
03:13:51,840 --> 03:13:56,710
>> Thank you.

4641
03:13:56,720 --> 03:13:58,000
» You have any questions, Terry?

4642
03:13:58,000 --> 03:13:58,399
>> Questions?

4643
03:13:58,399 --> 03:14:02,790
>> Bill, do you have any questions?

4644
03:14:02,800 --> 03:14:06,880
» Okay. Um, any public comment, Dan?

4645
03:14:06,880 --> 03:14:11,750
>> Yeah.

4646
03:14:11,760 --> 03:14:15,279
» Do I introduce myself?

4647
03:14:15,279 --> 03:14:17,840
>> Um, first of all, David, I really

4648
03:14:17,840 --> 03:14:19,760
appreciate what you, you know, the

4649
03:14:19,760 --> 03:14:22,560
consideration that you've given um to

4650
03:14:22,560 --> 03:14:25,680
the letter that I wrote. The the intent

4651
03:14:25,680 --> 03:14:27,439
of the letter was not to make things

4652
03:14:27,439 --> 03:14:31,120
more complicated. actually um the design

4653
03:14:31,120 --> 03:14:33,760
process in a lot of ways can be a way to

4654
03:14:33,760 --> 03:14:36,160
bring people together and to build

4655
03:14:36,160 --> 03:14:40,160
consensus around ideas. And this project

4656
03:14:40,160 --> 03:14:42,080
as you guys know is a pretty contentious

4657
03:14:42,080 --> 03:14:44,640
project. And I think that

4658
03:14:44,640 --> 03:14:46,640
going through the first phase of work

4659
03:14:46,640 --> 03:14:49,920
that we did on the CAC committee, what

4660
03:14:49,920 --> 03:14:52,560
was apparent to me was the conversations

4661
03:14:52,560 --> 03:14:55,920
that we had, the transparency,

4662
03:14:55,920 --> 03:14:57,279
the expression of the different

4663
03:14:57,279 --> 03:14:59,920
viewpoints and considering all those

4664
03:14:59,920 --> 03:15:02,640
things and bringing them together

4665
03:15:02,640 --> 03:15:04,560
ultimately got us to where we wanted to

4666
03:15:04,560 --> 03:15:07,040
be. And I think the intent of of at

4667
03:15:07,040 --> 03:15:09,120
least my letter was to continue that

4668
03:15:09,120 --> 03:15:11,920
process. that design in itself is a way

4669
03:15:11,920 --> 03:15:14,239
to bring people together. It's a way to

4670
03:15:14,239 --> 03:15:15,920
consider different ideas. It's

4671
03:15:15,920 --> 03:15:18,239
ultimately a way to get to better

4672
03:15:18,239 --> 03:15:21,200
outcomes. It doesn't mean that we want

4673
03:15:21,200 --> 03:15:22,960
to do project management. We don't want

4674
03:15:22,960 --> 03:15:25,279
to do project management. But I think

4675
03:15:25,279 --> 03:15:28,160
given the time constraints, there are a

4676
03:15:28,160 --> 03:15:30,720
lot of very critical decisions that are

4677
03:15:30,720 --> 03:15:33,520
going to have to be made, I think, in

4678
03:15:33,520 --> 03:15:36,000
real time. There are certainly major

4679
03:15:36,000 --> 03:15:37,439
decisions that need to be brought to

4680
03:15:37,439 --> 03:15:38,880
town council, but there's going to be a

4681
03:15:38,880 --> 03:15:40,720
lot of other things that are going to

4682
03:15:40,720 --> 03:15:43,439
have to happen. And I think people who

4683
03:15:43,439 --> 03:15:45,359
understand the why behind those

4684
03:15:45,359 --> 03:15:47,760
decisions were made and participate in

4685
03:15:47,760 --> 03:15:49,840
those decisions will ultimately support

4686
03:15:49,840 --> 03:15:53,760
those decisions. And so I I think what

4687
03:15:53,760 --> 03:15:55,439
you've got on the table right now

4688
03:15:55,439 --> 03:15:58,560
actually is a good idea. I think it's a

4689
03:15:58,560 --> 03:16:00,479
really good idea. Add two or three or

4690
03:16:00,479 --> 03:16:02,560
whatever you think is appropriate.

4691
03:16:02,560 --> 03:16:04,399
meetings where you've got critical

4692
03:16:04,399 --> 03:16:06,319
issues, you want to talk it over, you

4693
03:16:06,319 --> 03:16:08,640
want to get input of two or three people

4694
03:16:08,640 --> 03:16:10,720
so that when we all walk away, we go to

4695
03:16:10,720 --> 03:16:12,399
the town, we're talking to all the other

4696
03:16:12,399 --> 03:16:14,640
residents. We're doing everything we can

4697
03:16:14,640 --> 03:16:17,040
to support what's going on and saying,

4698
03:16:17,040 --> 03:16:19,200
"Hey, yeah, look at this. Is it we we

4699
03:16:19,200 --> 03:16:20,960
had to do this, you know, make this

4700
03:16:20,960 --> 03:16:22,640
compromise, whatever it is, but

4701
03:16:22,640 --> 03:16:24,960
ultimately I think it'll get us to a

4702
03:16:24,960 --> 03:16:26,479
better place." And that's really what

4703
03:16:26,479 --> 03:16:30,319
the intent is. Um, on the on the drawing

4704
03:16:30,319 --> 03:16:32,640
side of the equation,

4705
03:16:32,640 --> 03:16:34,640
it is an update of the master plan.

4706
03:16:34,640 --> 03:16:36,319
That's exactly what Christa said. That's

4707
03:16:36,319 --> 03:16:39,600
what went out was a a proposal to update

4708
03:16:39,600 --> 03:16:43,359
the master plan. What what I think and

4709
03:16:43,359 --> 03:16:45,600
I'd like to take schematic design off

4710
03:16:45,600 --> 03:16:47,920
the table for a second because that's an

4711
03:16:47,920 --> 03:16:50,399
architectural term and it has got a lot

4712
03:16:50,399 --> 03:16:52,960
of, you know, content associated with

4713
03:16:52,960 --> 03:16:57,040
it. Really what we need is a set of

4714
03:16:57,040 --> 03:16:59,680
drawings that is going to get us closer

4715
03:16:59,680 --> 03:17:02,800
to a construction estimate that we can

4716
03:17:02,800 --> 03:17:06,080
hang our hat on. So I think it goes it

4717
03:17:06,080 --> 03:17:09,279
isn't necessarily a full set of what I

4718
03:17:09,279 --> 03:17:11,200
would call schematic drawings, but it

4719
03:17:11,200 --> 03:17:14,479
does mean doing some detailed plans to

4720
03:17:14,479 --> 03:17:16,000
make sure that the police department

4721
03:17:16,000 --> 03:17:18,399
actually lays out properly. Make sure

4722
03:17:18,399 --> 03:17:20,000
that the fire department, if we're going

4723
03:17:20,000 --> 03:17:24,399
to do it, lays out properly. Make sure that the offices for

4724
03:17:24,399 --> 03:17:25,680
the staff that we have the right number

4725
03:17:25,680 --> 03:17:27,200
of offices. Do we have the right number

4726
03:17:27,200 --> 03:17:30,000
of restrooms rather than just blocking

4727
03:17:30,000 --> 03:17:32,880
the space? Actually doing some layouts

4728
03:17:32,880 --> 03:17:35,120
which we would just call space planning

4729
03:17:35,120 --> 03:17:37,040
to make sure that functionally

4730
03:17:37,040 --> 03:17:40,479
everything works over and above that. We

4731
03:17:40,479 --> 03:17:43,920
do need site plans. We do need floor

4732
03:17:43,920 --> 03:17:46,319
plans. We need elevations of the

4733
03:17:46,319 --> 03:17:48,560
building, some sections through the

4734
03:17:48,560 --> 03:17:51,359
building and renderings and an outline

4735
03:17:51,359 --> 03:17:53,120
specification

4736
03:17:53,120 --> 03:17:54,880
that would get us to the point where

4737
03:17:54,880 --> 03:17:56,720
instead of carrying, as David knows, you

4738
03:17:56,720 --> 03:17:58,800
know, if we have a schematic block, you

4739
03:17:58,800 --> 03:18:01,359
know, a set of block diagrams, we might

4740
03:18:01,359 --> 03:18:04,239
carry a 20% contingency, maybe even a

4741
03:18:04,239 --> 03:18:07,600
25% contingency. But if we can get it a

4742
03:18:07,600 --> 03:18:09,920
step further and add just another layer

4743
03:18:09,920 --> 03:18:13,439
of detail, take that down to 10%. And I

4744
03:18:13,439 --> 03:18:15,680
think or maybe 15% or whatever it is,

4745
03:18:15,680 --> 03:18:17,439
whatever we agree based on the

4746
03:18:17,439 --> 03:18:19,840
information we have that makes sense. I

4747
03:18:19,840 --> 03:18:22,960
think from a town perspective, the other

4748
03:18:22,960 --> 03:18:25,359
our our the other residents of the town,

4749
03:18:25,359 --> 03:18:27,359
we want to be able to we don't want a

4750
03:18:27,359 --> 03:18:29,439
lot of fluff in this. We want to make

4751
03:18:29,439 --> 03:18:31,600
sure that this is as tight as we can so

4752
03:18:31,600 --> 03:18:34,319
that when we do bring it forward, we're

4753
03:18:34,319 --> 03:18:36,160
bringing forward the ideas. we make sure

4754
03:18:36,160 --> 03:18:38,160
that the ideas work and we have a really

4755
03:18:38,160 --> 03:18:40,239
good idea of what it's going to cost

4756
03:18:40,239 --> 03:18:42,000
knowing that there are variables that we

4757
03:18:42,000 --> 03:18:44,479
can't control. So I mean I would be an

4758
03:18:44,479 --> 03:18:46,800
advocate of doing a little bit more

4759
03:18:46,800 --> 03:18:48,800
work, not a full set of schematics. It

4760
03:18:48,800 --> 03:18:51,520
doesn't preclude doing design build

4761
03:18:51,520 --> 03:18:53,439
design assist whatever we want to do

4762
03:18:53,439 --> 03:18:56,080
downstream. That information can be used

4763
03:18:56,080 --> 03:18:57,840
any way that we want to use it moving

4764
03:18:57,840 --> 03:18:59,760
forward, but it gets us closer to where

4765
03:18:59,760 --> 03:19:02,319
we need to be in terms of getting the

4766
03:19:02,319 --> 03:19:04,720
right kind of financing package put

4767
03:19:04,720 --> 03:19:10,710
together for this project.

4768
03:19:10,720 --> 03:19:12,960
So that's it. And that letter was from

4769
03:19:12,960 --> 03:19:16,960
me, not the CAC, just so you know.

4770
03:19:16,960 --> 03:19:22,309
>> Thanks, Dan.

4771
03:19:22,319 --> 03:19:24,399
» Good evening. Mike Rosenbomb. Again, I

4772
03:19:24,399 --> 03:19:26,399
have a novel idea for the town and one

4773
03:19:26,399 --> 03:19:27,920
I'm very disappointed that our chartered

4774
03:19:27,920 --> 03:19:29,840
financial analyst didn't think of, and

4775
03:19:29,840 --> 03:19:32,239
that is asking for to pay for the

4776
03:19:32,239 --> 03:19:34,080
$17,400

4777
03:19:34,080 --> 03:19:35,920
and any ancillary costs they would like

4778
03:19:35,920 --> 03:19:37,840
for additional meetings. They claim to

4779
03:19:37,840 --> 03:19:40,560
have 2.1 million in pledges.

4780
03:19:40,560 --> 03:19:42,479
Seems like a great place to come up with

4781
03:19:42,479 --> 03:19:47,920
17,500 for the meetings. Thank you.

4782
03:19:47,920 --> 03:19:51,110
Any

4783
03:19:51,120 --> 03:19:53,200
online comments?

4784
03:19:53,200 --> 03:19:54,239
>> No one online mayor.

4785
03:19:54,239 --> 03:19:55,520
>> Okay.

4786
03:19:55,520 --> 03:19:58,239
>> So, we'll bring it back for further

4787
03:19:58,239 --> 03:20:02,560
discussion. Um, I I think what you and

4788
03:20:02,560 --> 03:20:04,640
Christa have outlined in terms of adding

4789
03:20:04,640 --> 03:20:06,960
more meetings and more public outreach

4790
03:20:06,960 --> 03:20:11,279
is really good and really helpful. Um,

4791
03:20:11,279 --> 03:20:13,439
so I think that that was a great way to

4792
03:20:13,439 --> 03:20:16,880
address the CAC's concerns. I'm also

4793
03:20:16,880 --> 03:20:19,359
concerned, you know, if you allow the

4794
03:20:19,359 --> 03:20:22,880
CAC to participate in project management

4795
03:20:22,880 --> 03:20:25,840
meetings, then it seems like it's kind

4796
03:20:25,840 --> 03:20:28,399
of a slippery slope. You need the the

4797
03:20:28,399 --> 03:20:30,080
police chief and the fire chief and the

4798
03:20:30,080 --> 03:20:32,399
paramedics and, you know, where do you

4799
03:20:32,399 --> 03:20:35,760
stop? So, I think that the public

4800
03:20:35,760 --> 03:20:38,399
meetings that count I I assume council

4801
03:20:38,399 --> 03:20:40,239
can participate in those meetings, too,

4802
03:20:40,239 --> 03:20:42,640
and we'll all learn a lot. I think

4803
03:20:42,640 --> 03:20:45,200
that's a really good way to get the

4804
03:20:45,200 --> 03:20:47,520
feedback on the big milestone issues

4805
03:20:47,520 --> 03:20:50,160
that are there's going to be lots of

4806
03:20:50,160 --> 03:20:52,000
tradeoffs and it's there's going to be

4807
03:20:52,000 --> 03:20:53,520
really hard decisions that are going to

4808
03:20:53,520 --> 03:20:56,720
have to be made and we want the public

4809
03:20:56,720 --> 03:21:01,040
to weigh in. We want the CAC to weigh in

4810
03:21:01,040 --> 03:21:03,600
um and help us figure out what the best

4811
03:21:03,600 --> 03:21:05,279
decision is for the long term of the

4812
03:21:05,279 --> 03:21:09,590
town. Um,

4813
03:21:09,600 --> 03:21:11,840
I I I want to make sure that everyone's

4814
03:21:11,840 --> 03:21:15,439
comfortable about the um planning that

4815
03:21:15,439 --> 03:21:17,680
we're doing to make sure that we have as

4816
03:21:17,680 --> 03:21:20,880
much confidence in the cost estimate as

4817
03:21:20,880 --> 03:21:24,080
possible. Um, and so I just want to be

4818
03:21:24,080 --> 03:21:26,880
sure that everyone's happy with the

4819
03:21:26,880 --> 03:21:30,080
level of detail in the contract. I don't

4820
03:21:30,080 --> 03:21:32,960
want to be sitting here in October, you

4821
03:21:32,960 --> 03:21:35,600
know, scratching my head saying, "Well,

4822
03:21:35,600 --> 03:21:40,960
we should have done more. This isn't enough." Um I think, you

4823
03:21:40,960 --> 03:21:42,800
know, we want to have as much

4824
03:21:42,800 --> 03:21:45,279
specificity as possible. We but we don't

4825
03:21:45,279 --> 03:21:48,720
want to preclude Gensler from being um

4826
03:21:48,720 --> 03:21:51,760
available to bid um in the long-term

4827
03:21:51,760 --> 03:21:53,680
project. And and there are going to be

4828
03:21:53,680 --> 03:21:56,000
tons of variables that are way beyond

4829
03:21:56,000 --> 03:21:59,120
our control. So like are we still in a

4830
03:21:59,120 --> 03:22:02,640
war, right? Gas, tariffs, etc. cost of

4831
03:22:02,640 --> 03:22:06,880
copper. Um so I just think we if to the

4832
03:22:06,880 --> 03:22:08,880
extent that we could have additional

4833
03:22:08,880 --> 03:22:12,640
assurance perhaps from Gendler that the

4834
03:22:12,640 --> 03:22:14,399
level of work that they're going to do

4835
03:22:14,399 --> 03:22:17,439
is adequate to have the best cost

4836
03:22:17,439 --> 03:22:20,960
estimate possible. Um that that would be

4837
03:22:20,960 --> 03:22:24,160
helpful to me. And and mayor uh to your

4838
03:22:24,160 --> 03:22:26,479
point on the cost estimation, we as part

4839
03:22:26,479 --> 03:22:30,000
of our review of Gendler's scope of work

4840
03:22:30,000 --> 03:22:32,560
and and certainly the other consultants,

4841
03:22:32,560 --> 03:22:35,359
we we did verify that they all have

4842
03:22:35,359 --> 03:22:37,760
professional cost estimators on their

4843
03:22:37,760 --> 03:22:40,239
team and Gendler's scope does include

4844
03:22:40,239 --> 03:22:44,080
that. And we we believe they that

4845
03:22:44,080 --> 03:22:45,840
they're you know they they meet their

4846
03:22:45,840 --> 03:22:49,200
professional requisites to uh you know

4847
03:22:49,200 --> 03:22:51,439
uh provide us with a cost estimate

4848
03:22:51,439 --> 03:22:54,239
that's going to uh be very meaningful

4849
03:22:54,239 --> 03:22:57,279
for you know council's you know review.

4850
03:22:57,279 --> 03:22:58,880
It's probably going to be you know a lot

4851
03:22:58,880 --> 03:23:01,040
more detailed than than what was

4852
03:23:01,040 --> 03:23:03,040
provided in the original facilities

4853
03:23:03,040 --> 03:23:06,640
master plan. uh you know given the the

4854
03:23:06,640 --> 03:23:09,680
um the type of of uh cost estimator

4855
03:23:09,680 --> 03:23:11,840
that's being that's you know Gensler has

4856
03:23:11,840 --> 03:23:14,800
included on their team.

4857
03:23:14,800 --> 03:23:16,960
>> So I I I agree about the meetings. I

4858
03:23:16,960 --> 03:23:19,279
think I think the more outreach uh the

4859
03:23:19,279 --> 03:23:22,640
more participation is uh it benefits

4860
03:23:22,640 --> 03:23:25,600
everyone. Um, it sounded like Dan was

4861
03:23:25,600 --> 03:23:28,399
suggesting that the this process include

4862
03:23:28,399 --> 03:23:30,479
a little bit more, not so much that we

4863
03:23:30,479 --> 03:23:32,640
don't have the option of, you know, the

4864
03:23:32,640 --> 03:23:35,200
progressive design bid, whatever, but

4865
03:23:35,200 --> 03:23:37,279
that that that GE will do a little bit

4866
03:23:37,279 --> 03:23:40,239
more to give us so that we would be in

4867
03:23:40,239 --> 03:23:42,880
the be able to do a cost with a like a

4868
03:23:42,880 --> 03:23:46,319
15% contingency and not 25. So, is that

4869
03:23:46,319 --> 03:23:48,720
something that's reasonable to to add on

4870
03:23:48,720 --> 03:23:51,840
what small amount additional he he was

4871
03:23:51,840 --> 03:23:54,560
mentioning? Um, I I'd like to answer

4872
03:23:54,560 --> 03:23:56,720
this question. Um,

4873
03:23:56,720 --> 03:23:59,040
if the council's priority is to have

4874
03:23:59,040 --> 03:24:02,319
this done in 12 weeks, you need to stick

4875
03:24:02,319 --> 03:24:05,760
to your scope of work that and the

4876
03:24:05,760 --> 03:24:07,359
agreement that has already been

4877
03:24:07,359 --> 03:24:09,760
executed.

4878
03:24:09,760 --> 03:24:14,560
If the consensus of the council is to

4879
03:24:14,560 --> 03:24:18,880
add a little bit more, and you know, I

4880
03:24:18,880 --> 03:24:21,279
have greatest respect for Mr. whiny, but

4881
03:24:21,279 --> 03:24:23,920
that's all a little vague. Okay,

4882
03:24:23,920 --> 03:24:26,560
detailed planning, like what exactly

4883
03:24:26,560 --> 03:24:29,600
does that mean? How does that translate

4884
03:24:29,600 --> 03:24:32,479
into a specific scope of work? Because

4885
03:24:32,479 --> 03:24:34,800
remember, part of the role of your

4886
03:24:34,800 --> 03:24:38,319
professional staff is we track the

4887
03:24:38,319 --> 03:24:42,399
money. We make sure that before we pay a

4888
03:24:42,399 --> 03:24:45,520
bill that the work has been done and it

4889
03:24:45,520 --> 03:24:47,359
has been done in accordance with your

4890
03:24:47,359 --> 03:24:50,239
contract. So our scope of work is not

4891
03:24:50,239 --> 03:24:54,160
vague. It's so if the consensus of the

4892
03:24:54,160 --> 03:24:56,319
council is this evening that you are

4893
03:24:56,319 --> 03:25:00,479
interested in doing a little bit more

4894
03:25:00,479 --> 03:25:04,080
then what we will need to do as staff is

4895
03:25:04,080 --> 03:25:06,319
we will need to go back. So work is

4896
03:25:06,319 --> 03:25:08,000
going to stop.

4897
03:25:08,000 --> 03:25:10,880
We're going to stop on this and then we

4898
03:25:10,880 --> 03:25:13,680
need to go back and we need to spend

4899
03:25:13,680 --> 03:25:17,040
time with the consultant team, come up,

4900
03:25:17,040 --> 03:25:19,520
go do go back and forth. And it, let me

4901
03:25:19,520 --> 03:25:21,840
tell you, doing getting this contract so

4902
03:25:21,840 --> 03:25:23,359
that I could bring it back to you on

4903
03:25:23,359 --> 03:25:27,359
August 4th was a huge lift. It's not

4904
03:25:27,359 --> 03:25:28,960
going to happen by your next meeting on

4905
03:25:28,960 --> 03:25:31,600
August. It's going to be maybe we could

4906
03:25:31,600 --> 03:25:35,760
do it by September 10th. Maybe. then there's no way that you're going to

4907
03:25:35,760 --> 03:25:38,319
get this done in the timeline. Now, if

4908
03:25:38,319 --> 03:25:40,399
the timeline no if it doesn't matter to

4909
03:25:40,399 --> 03:25:42,880
you anymore and the consensus of the

4910
03:25:42,880 --> 03:25:45,359
council is you want us to do a little

4911
03:25:45,359 --> 03:25:49,040
bit more then that's what we'll do and

4912
03:25:49,040 --> 03:25:51,040
we'll have to come back and we'll you

4913
03:25:51,040 --> 03:25:52,800
know it it'll just it'll just be a

4914
03:25:52,800 --> 03:25:56,479
delay. So then I think you you it would

4915
03:25:56,479 --> 03:26:00,239
behoove you to think is that delay

4916
03:26:00,239 --> 03:26:02,319
what's the value of that delay? What's

4917
03:26:02,319 --> 03:26:04,880
it going to get for you? But Christa, I

4918
03:26:04,880 --> 03:26:06,239
don't agree with that. I mean, if we

4919
03:26:06,239 --> 03:26:08,640
were working for 12 weeks and then we

4920
03:26:08,640 --> 03:26:10,880
decided to extend the contract

4921
03:26:10,880 --> 03:26:14,239
>> after the 12 weeks and add on layouts,

4922
03:26:14,239 --> 03:26:16,080
it would just be an amendment to the to

4923
03:26:16,080 --> 03:26:20,800
the contract to add more. So, I I don't know that we need to redo the

4924
03:26:20,800 --> 03:26:22,479
whole thing, stop all the work, stop all

4925
03:26:22,479 --> 03:26:24,319
the meetings. We're saying, you know,

4926
03:26:24,319 --> 03:26:25,920
there may be a possibility down the road

4927
03:26:25,920 --> 03:26:29,040
that we're expanding the scope as we go.

4928
03:26:29,040 --> 03:26:31,040
And I I don't I don't I actually think

4929
03:26:31,040 --> 03:26:32,960
it's a disservice not to have layouts

4930
03:26:32,960 --> 03:26:34,960
done given that there's a lot of

4931
03:26:34,960 --> 03:26:36,880
programming that needs to be for

4932
03:26:36,880 --> 03:26:38,880
complicated police, fire, etc.

4933
03:26:38,880 --> 03:26:42,000
>> So just today, David and I were in a

4934
03:26:42,000 --> 03:26:45,520
meeting almost two hours going through

4935
03:26:45,520 --> 03:26:47,120
the packet of information that the

4936
03:26:47,120 --> 03:26:49,359
Gendler Project team gave us and our

4937
03:26:49,359 --> 03:26:50,640
comments are due today because we know

4938
03:26:50,640 --> 03:26:52,080
what David's going to be doing before he

4939
03:26:52,080 --> 03:26:54,080
goes to bed tonight is making sure he

4940
03:26:54,080 --> 03:26:56,319
puts together the comments from all. So

4941
03:26:56,319 --> 03:26:58,560
David and I are going through all these

4942
03:26:58,560 --> 03:27:01,600
tables and when Mr. Weiny mentioned an

4943
03:27:01,600 --> 03:27:04,399
example of restrooms, we spent a

4944
03:27:04,399 --> 03:27:06,239
considerable amount of time because what

4945
03:27:06,239 --> 03:27:08,000
Gendler had put together only had one

4946
03:27:08,000 --> 03:27:09,359
restroom for this building and I was

4947
03:27:09,359 --> 03:27:11,760
like wait got to have more than one

4948
03:27:11,760 --> 03:27:13,279
restroom for this building because when

4949
03:27:13,279 --> 03:27:14,800
we have a break there's usually more

4950
03:27:14,800 --> 03:27:16,000
than one person that has to use the

4951
03:27:16,000 --> 03:27:19,600
restroom. I mean we are going through

4952
03:27:19,600 --> 03:27:23,040
lots of detail already because we need

4953
03:27:23,040 --> 03:27:24,800
to get this done. and Gendler gives us

4954
03:27:24,800 --> 03:27:27,040
assignments and we need to do our part.

4955
03:27:27,040 --> 03:27:29,520
So if it was a specific thing like at

4956
03:27:29,520 --> 03:27:31,279
towards the end if something else is

4957
03:27:31,279 --> 03:27:34,080
needed the contract that we have with

4958
03:27:34,080 --> 03:27:36,720
Gendzo right now would allow us on a

4959
03:27:36,720 --> 03:27:40,560
time and materials basis to do something

4960
03:27:40,560 --> 03:27:42,399
you know something as specific and if

4961
03:27:42,399 --> 03:27:46,640
it's something really specific I I feel more comfortable as a town

4962
03:27:46,640 --> 03:27:49,439
manager saying okay you know it's become

4963
03:27:49,439 --> 03:27:51,439
apparent in this process because

4964
03:27:51,439 --> 03:27:53,520
remember

4965
03:27:53,520 --> 03:27:56,800
this this this concept includes cludes

4966
03:27:56,800 --> 03:27:58,800
looking at reusing a building, right?

4967
03:27:58,800 --> 03:28:01,680
There's a lot of unknowns. So maybe

4968
03:28:01,680 --> 03:28:04,000
something does come up in this process

4969
03:28:04,000 --> 03:28:07,359
that I could just quickly under my

4970
03:28:07,359 --> 03:28:09,920
purchasing authority

4971
03:28:09,920 --> 03:28:12,399
um amend the scope of work and get done,

4972
03:28:12,399 --> 03:28:14,479
right? But that's specific. But this

4973
03:28:14,479 --> 03:28:18,239
whole thing about a little bit more, no,

4974
03:28:18,239 --> 03:28:22,479
I'm not comfortable adding on a that

4975
03:28:22,479 --> 03:28:24,399
such a vague scope of work. I'm going to

4976
03:28:24,399 --> 03:28:27,200
bring that back to the council. So, I

4977
03:28:27,200 --> 03:28:29,760
even if we can still do a little bit of

4978
03:28:29,760 --> 03:28:32,319
stuff now, it's not going to be like we

4979
03:28:32,319 --> 03:28:34,000
are charging forward right now because

4980
03:28:34,000 --> 03:28:41,910
the council told us 12 weeks.

4981
03:28:41,920 --> 03:28:45,429
» Oh. Um,

4982
03:28:45,439 --> 03:28:45,920
» for now

4983
03:28:45,920 --> 03:28:47,520
>> I did, but it's okay.

4984
03:28:47,520 --> 03:28:49,520
>> If I if I can add, mayor,

4985
03:28:49,520 --> 03:28:51,040
>> can we just let the council talk for a

4986
03:28:51,040 --> 03:28:52,319
minute? I just we're never going to get

4987
03:28:52,319 --> 03:28:54,160
out of here if if we can't all share our

4988
03:28:54,160 --> 03:29:01,429
thoughts.

4989
03:29:01,439 --> 03:29:03,920
» Um

4990
03:29:03,920 --> 03:29:06,080
I think it I I think it would be

4991
03:29:06,080 --> 03:29:08,960
advantageous to do I'm sorry about that.

4992
03:29:08,960 --> 03:29:11,439
Um

4993
03:29:11,439 --> 03:29:14,080
it would make sense. I mean doing space

4994
03:29:14,080 --> 03:29:16,720
plans is not that complicated. They're

4995
03:29:16,720 --> 03:29:18,720
going to do the team is already going to

4996
03:29:18,720 --> 03:29:21,600
be working on block plans. So, they're

4997
03:29:21,600 --> 03:29:23,439
going to have how much space we have for

4998
03:29:23,439 --> 03:29:26,399
the police department or office space or

4999
03:29:26,399 --> 03:29:29,120
whatever. taking that the next step to

5000
03:29:29,120 --> 03:29:32,080
do some sketches to show

5001
03:29:32,080 --> 03:29:34,000
conceptually where do the offices go?

5002
03:29:34,000 --> 03:29:36,000
How many offices do we have? How many

5003
03:29:36,000 --> 03:29:38,239
bathrooms do we have? Do we have locker

5004
03:29:38,239 --> 03:29:40,000
rooms? Do we have shared locker rooms?

5005
03:29:40,000 --> 03:29:42,560
Where you know all the sort of the the

5006
03:29:42,560 --> 03:29:45,439
next level of detail in terms of making

5007
03:29:45,439 --> 03:29:47,920
sure that that building works is not

5008
03:29:47,920 --> 03:29:50,399
that complicated. It isn't that

5009
03:29:50,399 --> 03:29:54,000
complicated, but it goes a long ways to

5010
03:29:54,000 --> 03:29:55,760
having the people who are looking at it,

5011
03:29:55,760 --> 03:29:58,479
who care about these things, really

5012
03:29:58,479 --> 03:30:01,120
understanding that it works other than

5013
03:30:01,120 --> 03:30:03,760
showing them a block of space for a

5014
03:30:03,760 --> 03:30:05,279
police department. Is interesting

5015
03:30:05,279 --> 03:30:07,200
because when we had the police chief

5016
03:30:07,200 --> 03:30:10,160
here, he was saying, "I need an evidence

5017
03:30:10,160 --> 03:30:13,040
room and I need a place for to for

5018
03:30:13,040 --> 03:30:14,880
weapons and I need, you know, this

5019
03:30:14,880 --> 03:30:17,040
storage and I have drug store." all

5020
03:30:17,040 --> 03:30:18,560
those kinds of things that he was

5021
03:30:18,560 --> 03:30:20,800
talking about. He's absolutely right. We

5022
03:30:20,800 --> 03:30:22,160
got to make sure that those things are

5023
03:30:22,160 --> 03:30:24,880
taken care of. So, so all I'm saying is

5024
03:30:24,880 --> 03:30:26,720
that and I'm speaking as an architect

5025
03:30:26,720 --> 03:30:29,040
now, not Gensler or any that doing the

5026
03:30:29,040 --> 03:30:31,680
space planning is not that complicated.

5027
03:30:31,680 --> 03:30:35,439
The from an architectural standpoint,

5028
03:30:35,439 --> 03:30:38,319
we already will have asbuilts of the

5029
03:30:38,319 --> 03:30:40,880
drawing of the buildings. So doing

5030
03:30:40,880 --> 03:30:42,880
elevations of the buildings to

5031
03:30:42,880 --> 03:30:45,680
understand how much window area do we

5032
03:30:45,680 --> 03:30:48,479
have, where are the windows located, you

5033
03:30:48,479 --> 03:30:50,160
know, are we going to have those outside

5034
03:30:50,160 --> 03:30:52,880
decks? Are, you know, what kind of roofs

5035
03:30:52,880 --> 03:30:56,080
do we have to repair versus, you know,

5036
03:30:56,080 --> 03:30:58,319
new roofs or whatever it may be. the

5037
03:30:58,319 --> 03:31:01,120
elevations of the building, just some

5038
03:31:01,120 --> 03:31:03,279
plans of the building, a section through

5039
03:31:03,279 --> 03:31:05,840
the building. So really structurally how

5040
03:31:05,840 --> 03:31:08,720
it works goes a long ways for a cost

5041
03:31:08,720 --> 03:31:11,600
estimator to be able to say, "Okay, I

5042
03:31:11,600 --> 03:31:13,520
get it right. I understand, you know,

5043
03:31:13,520 --> 03:31:15,840
what needs to be done versus doing block

5044
03:31:15,840 --> 03:31:17,279
plans." That's all I'm saying. Well, you

5045
03:31:17,279 --> 03:31:19,359
can we can do block, you know, we can do

5046
03:31:19,359 --> 03:31:20,880
block plans. We can do exactly what

5047
03:31:20,880 --> 03:31:22,640
we're saying, but we're going to have to

5048
03:31:22,640 --> 03:31:25,279
carry a bigger contingency, right? You

5049
03:31:25,279 --> 03:31:26,640
would have to say that. I know you got

5050
03:31:26,640 --> 03:31:27,840
to say you have to have a bigger

5051
03:31:27,840 --> 03:31:30,080
contingency. The more detail you have,

5052
03:31:30,080 --> 03:31:32,239
the better the cost estimate. I'm more

5053
03:31:32,239 --> 03:31:34,319
concerned about

5054
03:31:34,319 --> 03:31:37,040
the constituencies out there who need to

5055
03:31:37,040 --> 03:31:38,560
be assured that everything is working

5056
03:31:38,560 --> 03:31:40,640
the way that they want it to work in

5057
03:31:40,640 --> 03:31:42,720
order to support this and get the kind

5058
03:31:42,720 --> 03:31:45,120
of community behind this to get this

5059
03:31:45,120 --> 03:31:47,680
approved. And that's really what it's

5060
03:31:47,680 --> 03:31:50,239
like that next level of detail, whatever

5061
03:31:50,239 --> 03:31:51,520
you want to call it, but enough

5062
03:31:51,520 --> 03:31:53,680
information that they can go out there

5063
03:31:53,680 --> 03:31:55,279
and say, "Yeah, this is it. you know,

5064
03:31:55,279 --> 03:31:57,439
this works. This is didn't get exactly

5065
03:31:57,439 --> 03:31:59,279
what we wanted, but this looks like it's

5066
03:31:59,279 --> 03:32:01,359
going to work and let's move forward

5067
03:32:01,359 --> 03:32:04,800
with it. So, that's, you know, that's my

5068
03:32:04,800 --> 03:32:06,319
two cents on it. I just don't think

5069
03:32:06,319 --> 03:32:08,479
>> Can that be added on without a a project

5070
03:32:08,479 --> 03:32:09,279
delay?

5071
03:32:09,279 --> 03:32:10,000
>> Pardon me.

5072
03:32:10,000 --> 03:32:12,560
>> Can that be added on without a project

5073
03:32:12,560 --> 03:32:13,120
without

5074
03:32:13,120 --> 03:32:15,040
>> They'd have to talk to Gensler and ask

5075
03:32:15,040 --> 03:32:18,479
him. And I I think actually the the the

5076
03:32:18,479 --> 03:32:21,359
question for Gensler would be based on

5077
03:32:21,359 --> 03:32:23,120
what we've asked you to do in the scope

5078
03:32:23,120 --> 03:32:24,800
of work right now and what we've

5079
03:32:24,800 --> 03:32:27,439
outlined, do you think it's adequate to

5080
03:32:27,439 --> 03:32:29,680
get a construction estimate and a cost

5081
03:32:29,680 --> 03:32:32,880
estimate that we can hang our hat on to

5082
03:32:32,880 --> 03:32:35,279
go forward with the bond?

5083
03:32:35,279 --> 03:32:37,600
>> Okay. So that was already in the RFP.

5084
03:32:37,600 --> 03:32:38,000
Pardon?

5085
03:32:38,000 --> 03:32:40,720
>> That that was already in the RFP. That

5086
03:32:40,720 --> 03:32:43,520
was in the RFP. that that was that was a

5087
03:32:43,520 --> 03:32:47,120
goal of this of this exercise. We there

5088
03:32:47,120 --> 03:32:50,080
is there is no one that is more

5089
03:32:50,080 --> 03:32:53,840
concerned about making sure that this

5090
03:32:53,840 --> 03:32:56,560
project meets our operational needs.

5091
03:32:56,560 --> 03:32:59,040
I've said to many of you, it's not my

5092
03:32:59,040 --> 03:33:00,720
town. I don't I don't care what it looks

5093
03:33:00,720 --> 03:33:03,040
like. It I want it to meet our

5094
03:33:03,040 --> 03:33:06,399
operational needs and I want it to be

5095
03:33:06,399 --> 03:33:08,560
something that we can afford and is is

5096
03:33:08,560 --> 03:33:12,479
done in a fair legal manner. Um, and so

5097
03:33:12,479 --> 03:33:14,479
that's what I'm I you know, and and when

5098
03:33:14,479 --> 03:33:15,040
you

5099
03:33:15,040 --> 03:33:16,880
>> want to say, it's funny because I think

5100
03:33:16,880 --> 03:33:18,800
I feel like we're saying exactly the

5101
03:33:18,800 --> 03:33:19,120
same.

5102
03:33:19,120 --> 03:33:20,319
>> Exactly. But we already have this

5103
03:33:20,319 --> 03:33:21,840
information when you use when you use

5104
03:33:21,840 --> 03:33:24,640
the police chiefs. We already have I had

5105
03:33:24,640 --> 03:33:26,720
a conversation just this afternoon with

5106
03:33:26,720 --> 03:33:28,479
our police chief because he said he

5107
03:33:28,479 --> 03:33:29,680
wanted to make sure that the locker

5108
03:33:29,680 --> 03:33:33,120
rooms are for women and men. And I

5109
03:33:33,120 --> 03:33:35,600
diligently we looked back. Absolutely.

5110
03:33:35,600 --> 03:33:37,359
Because it's it's a law. We have to have

5111
03:33:37,359 --> 03:33:39,439
it. So we've already done so much of

5112
03:33:39,439 --> 03:33:40,560
that. And

5113
03:33:40,560 --> 03:33:42,319
>> sure. I think the difference is Kristen,

5114
03:33:42,319 --> 03:33:44,800
when you take that program to a block

5115
03:33:44,800 --> 03:33:46,640
plan, it's a block of space. When you

5116
03:33:46,640 --> 03:33:48,399
take it to the next level of space

5117
03:33:48,399 --> 03:33:50,560
planning, sometimes that block of space

5118
03:33:50,560 --> 03:33:52,720
works and sometimes it doesn't. And

5119
03:33:52,720 --> 03:33:54,399
sometimes you got to start modifying

5120
03:33:54,399 --> 03:33:56,239
your program to make it work, especially

5121
03:33:56,239 --> 03:33:57,680
in a building that's going to be an

5122
03:33:57,680 --> 03:34:00,239
adaptive reuse. It's not going to be

5123
03:34:00,239 --> 03:34:02,080
perfect. You know, block plan and space

5124
03:34:02,080 --> 03:34:03,920
plan is one level of detail. the next

5125
03:34:03,920 --> 03:34:06,239
level of detail just simply gives us

5126
03:34:06,239 --> 03:34:08,880
more information to get us a better a

5127
03:34:08,880 --> 03:34:11,200
better cost estimate and a better sense

5128
03:34:11,200 --> 03:34:13,200
of what the scope is. That's all the I'm

5129
03:34:13,200 --> 03:34:14,720
not saying we can't do it with a block

5130
03:34:14,720 --> 03:34:17,040
plan. It makes sense you could. All I'm

5131
03:34:17,040 --> 03:34:18,720
saying is that I guarantee you the cost

5132
03:34:18,720 --> 03:34:20,800
estimators are going to carry a larger

5133
03:34:20,800 --> 03:34:23,920
cons contingency based on a block plan

5134
03:34:23,920 --> 03:34:26,080
than they will detail space planning.

5135
03:34:26,080 --> 03:34:32,710
That's all. So,

5136
03:34:32,720 --> 03:34:38,710
» yep.

5137
03:34:38,720 --> 03:34:41,520
» Well, all of us all of us agreed to the

5138
03:34:41,520 --> 03:34:45,200
contract as it was written on August

5139
03:34:45,200 --> 03:34:47,200
4th. Correct.

5140
03:34:47,200 --> 03:34:49,680
We read it. We agreed to it. Well, I I

5141
03:34:49,680 --> 03:34:51,680
actually had several questions about it,

5142
03:34:51,680 --> 03:34:53,520
but was told that if we try to change

5143
03:34:53,520 --> 03:34:55,520
it, it'll be weeks to get it going back

5144
03:34:55,520 --> 03:34:57,520
and forth and then it's better to to

5145
03:34:57,520 --> 03:35:00,160
start with this and if there are

5146
03:35:00,160 --> 03:35:03,840
anything we want to adjust, we could possibly adjust moving

5147
03:35:03,840 --> 03:35:05,520
forward. So, that's where I kind of feel

5148
03:35:05,520 --> 03:35:08,080
like we are now with anyway, I didn't

5149
03:35:08,080 --> 03:35:08,880
want to interrupt you. Go ahead.

5150
03:35:08,880 --> 03:35:10,160
>> No, it's okay. No, it was a question

5151
03:35:10,160 --> 03:35:12,239
that I asked. I asked the question. So,

5152
03:35:12,239 --> 03:35:14,160
yeah, I didn't I did not get that

5153
03:35:14,160 --> 03:35:16,880
information. I read it. It made sense to

5154
03:35:16,880 --> 03:35:21,279
me. I supported it. So, um I would

5155
03:35:21,279 --> 03:35:23,520
really like us to move ahead. I keep

5156
03:35:23,520 --> 03:35:27,520
worrying about this delay, that delay. I

5157
03:35:27,520 --> 03:35:30,399
mean, this has been We've had delays for

5158
03:35:30,399 --> 03:35:33,680
how many years now with this uh Yes.

5159
03:35:33,680 --> 03:35:36,000
Right. Exactly. for a long time. Let's

5160
03:35:36,000 --> 03:35:39,680
move forward. Let's uh deal with the

5161
03:35:39,680 --> 03:35:42,239
contract as it's written.

5162
03:35:42,239 --> 03:35:45,600
Uh let's add the additional six meetings

5163
03:35:45,600 --> 03:35:48,239
that Gendler would have with the three

5164
03:35:48,239 --> 03:35:50,880
would be with the citizens advisory

5165
03:35:50,880 --> 03:35:53,279
group which I think is a great idea.

5166
03:35:53,279 --> 03:35:55,359
There's three more town council meetings

5167
03:35:55,359 --> 03:35:59,600
that's thrown in. My my caveat was I

5168
03:35:59,600 --> 03:36:02,160
would trust the staff to figure out a

5169
03:36:02,160 --> 03:36:03,920
way to make sure that those other

5170
03:36:03,920 --> 03:36:05,680
stakeholders,

5171
03:36:05,680 --> 03:36:08,960
not just the citizens advisory council,

5172
03:36:08,960 --> 03:36:10,720
but the other stakeholders have an

5173
03:36:10,720 --> 03:36:12,800
opportunity, whether that's at a council

5174
03:36:12,800 --> 03:36:15,439
meeting or one of those three meetings

5175
03:36:15,439 --> 03:36:17,760
is just for the council is set aside for

5176
03:36:17,760 --> 03:36:20,000
other stakeholders. I want to make sure

5177
03:36:20,000 --> 03:36:22,479
you've got the stakeholders

5178
03:36:22,479 --> 03:36:26,319
uh covered and not just CAC.

5179
03:36:26,319 --> 03:36:29,040
So, I I agree with all of that, but in

5180
03:36:29,040 --> 03:36:31,600
addition, you know, I'm swayed by Dan's

5181
03:36:31,600 --> 03:36:33,760
comments about space planning could be

5182
03:36:33,760 --> 03:36:36,399
useful and it isn't and it's not that

5183
03:36:36,399 --> 03:36:38,800
hard to add on and it will give us a

5184
03:36:38,800 --> 03:36:41,359
better sense of how well this design

5185
03:36:41,359 --> 03:36:44,319
functions and a cost estimate and it it

5186
03:36:44,319 --> 03:36:46,479
can be added on without a delay. We

5187
03:36:46,479 --> 03:36:48,800
don't have to stop the pro we don't have

5188
03:36:48,800 --> 03:36:51,520
to stop anything to add what it what's

5189
03:36:51,520 --> 03:36:53,520
he described as space planning towards

5190
03:36:53,520 --> 03:36:55,520
the end of this 12 weeks. What does that

5191
03:36:55,520 --> 03:36:57,840
mean? It won't be It's not a hard It

5192
03:36:57,840 --> 03:36:59,760
won't take a lot of time. What does that

5193
03:36:59,760 --> 03:37:02,080
mean? It won't take a lot of time. It's

5194
03:37:02,080 --> 03:37:04,080
not hard to do. What does that really

5195
03:37:04,080 --> 03:37:05,279
mean?

5196
03:37:05,279 --> 03:37:07,359
>> I mean, I'd ask Dan, but it sounded like

5197
03:37:07,359 --> 03:37:09,840
it wasn't, you know, a major addition.

5198
03:37:09,840 --> 03:37:22,389
We'd have to hire us.

5199
03:37:22,399 --> 03:37:26,000
» He needs to speak up there at the mic.

5200
03:37:26,000 --> 03:37:28,239
>> Well, he was saying to ask Gensler, do

5201
03:37:28,239 --> 03:37:29,279
we think what we're doing now is

5202
03:37:29,279 --> 03:37:30,640
adequate or should we add in space

5203
03:37:30,640 --> 03:37:34,160
planning? Maybe that's the way to go.

5204
03:37:34,160 --> 03:37:37,200
So I I would like to first start off

5205
03:37:37,200 --> 03:37:39,760
with the space planning is sort of not

5206
03:37:39,760 --> 03:37:41,920
on this item. It's not in the staff

5207
03:37:41,920 --> 03:37:45,040
report. I think we can address the space

5208
03:37:45,040 --> 03:37:47,680
planning later. Like it doesn't tonight

5209
03:37:47,680 --> 03:37:50,640
need to be determined while you're doing

5210
03:37:50,640 --> 03:37:52,640
a project. You can always add things and

5211
03:37:52,640 --> 03:37:57,520
amend them. And I think Christa, you you just said, "Hey, I want to come back

5212
03:37:57,520 --> 03:37:59,680
to you for a big thing." So let's do

5213
03:37:59,680 --> 03:38:01,760
that at another time. We have tons of

5214
03:38:01,760 --> 03:38:03,279
meetings coming up. we can decide

5215
03:38:03,279 --> 03:38:05,120
whether we want to add space planning or

5216
03:38:05,120 --> 03:38:06,880
not. I don't think it needs to be done

5217
03:38:06,880 --> 03:38:09,279
tonight. The question before us tonight

5218
03:38:09,279 --> 03:38:13,120
is how do we integrate the CAC into this

5219
03:38:13,120 --> 03:38:15,760
process? That's really what this item is

5220
03:38:15,760 --> 03:38:16,560
about.

5221
03:38:16,560 --> 03:38:18,960
>> I appreciate the offer for three

5222
03:38:18,960 --> 03:38:21,520
meetings. I think what is clear and the

5223
03:38:21,520 --> 03:38:23,840
fact that we keep asking Dan to go speak

5224
03:38:23,840 --> 03:38:25,760
at the mic because we care what he has

5225
03:38:25,760 --> 03:38:30,319
to say is the CAC isn't magic or some

5226
03:38:30,319 --> 03:38:32,640
constituent. They are the group that

5227
03:38:32,640 --> 03:38:34,800
created this plan that we all seem to

5228
03:38:34,800 --> 03:38:37,120
have adopted and we're sort of trying to

5229
03:38:37,120 --> 03:38:38,720
move forward without them seems

5230
03:38:38,720 --> 03:38:41,680
ridiculous. These people are experts.

5231
03:38:41,680 --> 03:38:43,200
They're willing. I mean, the fact that

5232
03:38:43,200 --> 03:38:45,840
they're just here tonight at 9:30 and

5233
03:38:45,840 --> 03:38:48,080
good to see you too, Mr. Cool. You know,

5234
03:38:48,080 --> 03:38:50,160
is showing a dedication to this town

5235
03:38:50,160 --> 03:38:52,399
that we need to really embrace. I think

5236
03:38:52,399 --> 03:38:53,920
they should be at every meeting. I think

5237
03:38:53,920 --> 03:38:56,000
that they this group has come together

5238
03:38:56,000 --> 03:38:57,840
with a great plan. Why would we exclude

5239
03:38:57,840 --> 03:38:59,920
them from any meeting? It just it makes

5240
03:38:59,920 --> 03:39:01,120
no sense to me. I don't think they're

5241
03:39:01,120 --> 03:39:02,239
going to slow you down. I think they're

5242
03:39:02,239 --> 03:39:04,080
going to add so much value. Why would we

5243
03:39:04,080 --> 03:39:05,920
not take it? You have literally some of

5244
03:39:05,920 --> 03:39:08,720
these the most experts that you have in

5245
03:39:08,720 --> 03:39:10,160
the world are sitting right in this

5246
03:39:10,160 --> 03:39:12,479
room. So, just include them in the

5247
03:39:12,479 --> 03:39:14,399
meetings. I don't think they're going to

5248
03:39:14,399 --> 03:39:15,680
ruin it. I actually think they're going

5249
03:39:15,680 --> 03:39:17,359
to help make the plan work better

5250
03:39:17,359 --> 03:39:19,600
because they've already come this far.

5251
03:39:19,600 --> 03:39:21,920
So, why would we just handcuff them?

5252
03:39:21,920 --> 03:39:23,920
Just bring them into the meetings and if

5253
03:39:23,920 --> 03:39:25,760
they're annoying or they're doing

5254
03:39:25,760 --> 03:39:27,520
things, you just say, "Hey, thank you."

5255
03:39:27,520 --> 03:39:29,520
Well, uh, I think you can manage a

5256
03:39:29,520 --> 03:39:31,520
meeting very well, town manager Johnson.

5257
03:39:31,520 --> 03:39:32,080
I'm not

5258
03:39:32,080 --> 03:39:34,000
>> two of them are running for council, and

5259
03:39:34,000 --> 03:39:35,920
you really expect that staff is going to

5260
03:39:35,920 --> 03:39:38,880
go, "Oh, council, council candidates,

5261
03:39:38,880 --> 03:39:40,000
you know, I don't like what you're

5262
03:39:40,000 --> 03:39:42,239
saying. I don't like what your tone is."

5263
03:39:42,239 --> 03:39:44,080
>> Okay, first of all, that's impossible.

5264
03:39:44,080 --> 03:39:45,920
>> First of all, there's ways, let me

5265
03:39:45,920 --> 03:39:49,279
speak. It is my turn. Is that you, you

5266
03:39:49,279 --> 03:39:50,880
know, we're not saying you have to have

5267
03:39:50,880 --> 03:39:53,040
all 10 members. Maybe it's two or three

5268
03:39:53,040 --> 03:39:55,200
of them attend. I don't know. is choose.

5269
03:39:55,200 --> 03:39:57,279
>> No, I I think it's worth a discussion

5270
03:39:57,279 --> 03:39:59,920
with them about, hey, I think obviously

5271
03:39:59,920 --> 03:40:03,200
Mr. Weiny is got everybody's support to

5272
03:40:03,200 --> 03:40:05,359
be there. Maybe it's two or three other

5273
03:40:05,359 --> 03:40:06,800
people from that committee that want to

5274
03:40:06,800 --> 03:40:08,479
come and meet. And guess what? They're

5275
03:40:08,479 --> 03:40:11,200
busy people. I mean, they maybe can't

5276
03:40:11,200 --> 03:40:12,560
even attend all the meetings. Maybe they

5277
03:40:12,560 --> 03:40:14,880
send one representative. I just don't

5278
03:40:14,880 --> 03:40:16,479
know why we wouldn't include them in

5279
03:40:16,479 --> 03:40:19,120
this process. It seems sort of foolish.

5280
03:40:19,120 --> 03:40:20,880
Like, they've gotten us to this point.

5281
03:40:20,880 --> 03:40:24,160
let's like use them and then uh move

5282
03:40:24,160 --> 03:40:26,560
forward. You just setting up three extra

5283
03:40:26,560 --> 03:40:28,560
meetings doesn't seem it seems like a

5284
03:40:28,560 --> 03:40:30,880
total waste of time and money not to

5285
03:40:30,880 --> 03:40:32,960
just have them at the meetings as an

5286
03:40:32,960 --> 03:40:35,920
optional attendee to provide input. I

5287
03:40:35,920 --> 03:40:37,439
just I don't get it.

5288
03:40:37,439 --> 03:40:39,680
>> I I think I think we're kind of beating

5289
03:40:39,680 --> 03:40:42,080
this horse dead. It seems like there's

5290
03:40:42,080 --> 03:40:44,000
consensus to embrace

5291
03:40:44,000 --> 03:40:45,840
>> haven't even heard from Bill. Well, I

5292
03:40:45,840 --> 03:40:48,399
just let me just summarize because I

5293
03:40:48,399 --> 03:40:50,640
think we heard from Dan that the

5294
03:40:50,640 --> 03:40:52,640
additional three meetings is a great

5295
03:40:52,640 --> 03:40:55,840
solution. I mean, Dan agrees with that.

5296
03:40:55,840 --> 03:40:57,840
So, I don't think we need to keep going

5297
03:40:57,840 --> 03:41:00,960
around and around about whether the CAC

5298
03:41:00,960 --> 03:41:02,880
or any other member should be part of

5299
03:41:02,880 --> 03:41:05,600
the project management staff meeting,

5300
03:41:05,600 --> 03:41:08,800
weekly meeting. Um, I think Christa came

5301
03:41:08,800 --> 03:41:11,840
up with a really good solution to um,

5302
03:41:11,840 --> 03:41:14,640
encompass the information and everyone's

5303
03:41:14,640 --> 03:41:15,920
going to hear the information at the

5304
03:41:15,920 --> 03:41:18,000
same time and be able to weigh in and

5305
03:41:18,000 --> 03:41:19,920
it's ultimately the council who needs to

5306
03:41:19,920 --> 03:41:22,560
decide. Um,

5307
03:41:22,560 --> 03:41:25,200
and I agree on the what with what you're

5308
03:41:25,200 --> 03:41:28,319
saying in terms of the um,

5309
03:41:28,319 --> 03:41:30,800
the schematics or you know more detail

5310
03:41:30,800 --> 03:41:35,279
or I I just I think from my standpoint I

5311
03:41:35,279 --> 03:41:38,880
think it Christa, it would be great. Or

5312
03:41:38,880 --> 03:41:41,279
David, if you could just say to the

5313
03:41:41,279 --> 03:41:44,640
Gensler people, hey, is this going to be

5314
03:41:44,640 --> 03:41:47,760
enough? I know what's in the contract,

5315
03:41:47,760 --> 03:41:50,000
but I we don't want to be sitting here

5316
03:41:50,000 --> 03:41:53,120
in October and having someone say, well,

5317
03:41:53,120 --> 03:41:54,880
you know, you didn't do enough work. The

5318
03:41:54,880 --> 03:41:56,640
contract was too limited. The

5319
03:41:56,640 --> 03:42:00,080
contingency is too big. And we have to

5320
03:42:00,080 --> 03:42:02,319
be flexible and nimble. and that this

5321
03:42:02,319 --> 03:42:05,840
issue I think it just is is a 15-minute

5322
03:42:05,840 --> 03:42:08,000
conversation with the Gensler people.

5323
03:42:08,000 --> 03:42:10,160
Yes, we have confidence in how this is

5324
03:42:10,160 --> 03:42:13,279
going to go down or maybe we need to add

5325
03:42:13,279 --> 03:42:16,160
a little bit a little amendment to the

5326
03:42:16,160 --> 03:42:19,359
contract to encompass a little more

5327
03:42:19,359 --> 03:42:21,600
detailed planning. As I mentioned, there

5328
03:42:21,600 --> 03:42:25,680
is already there's already language in

5329
03:42:25,680 --> 03:42:28,720
the existing contract which states that

5330
03:42:28,720 --> 03:42:32,560
if we need additional services, we have

5331
03:42:32,560 --> 03:42:34,399
that ability to do that.

5332
03:42:34,399 --> 03:42:36,640
>> That's great. I just don't want to be I

5333
03:42:36,640 --> 03:42:40,239
don't want to be in like October 1st

5334
03:42:40,239 --> 03:42:41,920
freaking out that we need this

5335
03:42:41,920 --> 03:42:43,760
additional information. And I think we

5336
03:42:43,760 --> 03:42:46,160
should ask right now and then if we

5337
03:42:46,160 --> 03:42:48,000
don't need a great if we do need it then

5338
03:42:48,000 --> 03:42:50,560
it can proceed in parallel with this

5339
03:42:50,560 --> 03:42:52,560
other work that's going on so that when

5340
03:42:52,560 --> 03:42:56,080
we come to October 22nd or whatever the

5341
03:42:56,080 --> 03:42:58,239
date is we're ready.

5342
03:42:58,239 --> 03:43:02,000
>> So the RFP clearly stated that was the

5343
03:43:02,000 --> 03:43:04,960
town council's goal. We asked the

5344
03:43:04,960 --> 03:43:08,160
consultants to tell us to give us a

5345
03:43:08,160 --> 03:43:10,479
proposal for what they thought that they

5346
03:43:10,479 --> 03:43:13,279
needed to do to get to that point.

5347
03:43:13,279 --> 03:43:16,720
So, um, it's not a good negotiating

5348
03:43:16,720 --> 03:43:21,120
strategy to go to a consultant and say,

5349
03:43:21,120 --> 03:43:23,040
"Are we paying you enough? Are we giving

5350
03:43:23,040 --> 03:43:25,279
you enough hours? How much more can we

5351
03:43:25,279 --> 03:43:28,399
pay you?" So, I absolutely I'm more than

5352
03:43:28,399 --> 03:43:30,319
happy to answer ask them that question.

5353
03:43:30,319 --> 03:43:32,399
But there's also I don't think you're

5354
03:43:32,399 --> 03:43:33,840
going to get the certainty that you're

5355
03:43:33,840 --> 03:43:34,720
looking for, mayor.

5356
03:43:34,720 --> 03:43:36,720
>> I think we're never we're never I agree.

5357
03:43:36,720 --> 03:43:37,760
We're never going to have perfect

5358
03:43:37,760 --> 03:43:38,880
certainty. there's going to be a

5359
03:43:38,880 --> 03:43:40,640
contingency for all the reasons that

5360
03:43:40,640 --> 03:43:43,359
David said in addition to, you know,

5361
03:43:43,359 --> 03:43:48,000
trying to rehab a very old building. Um,

5362
03:43:48,000 --> 03:43:49,600
but

5363
03:43:49,600 --> 03:43:53,040
and and Gendler is our architect and you

5364
03:43:53,040 --> 03:43:56,319
know, when I was a lawyer, if my client

5365
03:43:56,319 --> 03:43:58,960
asked me something, I had to be ethical

5366
03:43:58,960 --> 03:44:01,279
and I had to give an honest answer. And

5367
03:44:01,279 --> 03:44:04,160
so, I have confidence that if you ask

5368
03:44:04,160 --> 03:44:05,600
Gensler, they're not they're not going

5369
03:44:05,600 --> 03:44:07,600
to be like kaching kaching kaching.

5370
03:44:07,600 --> 03:44:10,239
they're going to be like, you know,

5371
03:44:10,239 --> 03:44:12,479
maybe we need to do a little bit more or

5372
03:44:12,479 --> 03:44:14,399
maybe we don't and we don't want to

5373
03:44:14,399 --> 03:44:16,479
disqual qualify ourselves by doing

5374
03:44:16,479 --> 03:44:18,239
schematics and not being able to, you

5375
03:44:18,239 --> 03:44:20,640
know, bid for the for the penultimate

5376
03:44:20,640 --> 03:44:22,640
project. This is just a small little

5377
03:44:22,640 --> 03:44:25,040
project. I just want us to be as

5378
03:44:25,040 --> 03:44:27,199
prepared as we possibly can. Maybe

5379
03:44:27,199 --> 03:44:28,880
they'll say, you know what, Christa,

5380
03:44:28,880 --> 03:44:30,800
this contract is perfect. We're going to

5381
03:44:30,800 --> 03:44:32,960
have so much information and our cost

5382
03:44:32,960 --> 03:44:35,040
estimators, our cost estimators are

5383
03:44:35,040 --> 03:44:37,840
going to be perfectly satisfied and the

5384
03:44:37,840 --> 03:44:39,760
contingency is going to be a reasonable

5385
03:44:39,760 --> 03:44:42,000
contingent contingency that every other

5386
03:44:42,000 --> 03:44:43,760
project is going to have. We're not

5387
03:44:43,760 --> 03:44:46,479
going to be an outlier. But, you know, I

5388
03:44:46,479 --> 03:44:48,800
think if people are telling us this now,

5389
03:44:48,800 --> 03:44:52,000
we we need to address this and and be

5390
03:44:52,000 --> 03:44:54,160
nimble and, you know, if we need a

5391
03:44:54,160 --> 03:44:56,720
little amendment to the contract, great.

5392
03:44:56,720 --> 03:44:58,720
I mean, this is the biggest project that

5393
03:44:58,720 --> 03:45:01,840
this town has done since 1927.

5394
03:45:01,840 --> 03:45:04,160
And you know, I don't want to shoot

5395
03:45:04,160 --> 03:45:05,680
ourselves in the foot, but I think the

5396
03:45:05,680 --> 03:45:09,680
council would be willing to pay more now

5397
03:45:09,680 --> 03:45:12,399
to have more certainty later to be

5398
03:45:12,399 --> 03:45:14,720
assured of passing a general obligation

5399
03:45:14,720 --> 03:45:16,800
bond and have our citizens have

5400
03:45:16,800 --> 03:45:18,800
confidence in what we're doing. So, I

5401
03:45:18,800 --> 03:45:20,080
don't think it hurts to ask the

5402
03:45:20,080 --> 03:45:22,319
question. I have full confidence that

5403
03:45:22,319 --> 03:45:24,000
you and David can ask the right

5404
03:45:24,000 --> 03:45:27,120
questions and you know come back with

5405
03:45:27,120 --> 03:45:29,359
whatever answer and maybe it's just

5406
03:45:29,359 --> 03:45:31,040
within your spending authority and you

5407
03:45:31,040 --> 03:45:32,880
can amend the contract.

5408
03:45:32,880 --> 03:45:34,640
>> It's space planning we're talking about.

5409
03:45:34,640 --> 03:45:35,680
Is that what what

5410
03:45:35,680 --> 03:45:36,720
>> Yeah.

5411
03:45:36,720 --> 03:45:37,040
>> Okay.

5412
03:45:37,040 --> 03:45:42,160
>> So, um I I'm absolutely David and I can

5413
03:45:42,160 --> 03:45:44,080
ask them more detailed questions about

5414
03:45:44,080 --> 03:45:47,120
their cost estimate. Um I I want to let

5415
03:45:47,120 --> 03:45:49,920
the council know though

5416
03:45:49,920 --> 03:45:53,040
we cannot maintain this schedule if we

5417
03:45:53,040 --> 03:45:55,199
continue to have these fire drills by

5418
03:45:55,199 --> 03:45:59,120
the council every week when you when we

5419
03:45:59,120 --> 03:46:02,160
are continuously faced with all of a

5420
03:46:02,160 --> 03:46:03,920
sudden oh my god right before the

5421
03:46:03,920 --> 03:46:07,439
meeting we have to sc you know it's we

5422
03:46:07,439 --> 03:46:09,600
cannot get our work done we cannot get

5423
03:46:09,600 --> 03:46:12,960
our work done so if what happens at the

5424
03:46:12,960 --> 03:46:14,960
next you know on the next meeting if I

5425
03:46:14,960 --> 03:46:17,279
have one or two council members are like

5426
03:46:17,279 --> 03:46:19,359
we because you have a certain member of

5427
03:46:19,359 --> 03:46:22,479
the public in your ear and you want us

5428
03:46:22,479 --> 03:46:25,680
to amend the contract and we have to

5429
03:46:25,680 --> 03:46:28,239
stop what we're doing and we have to

5430
03:46:28,239 --> 03:46:30,080
figure out okay what exactly are they

5431
03:46:30,080 --> 03:46:33,199
want us to do what does it mean how much

5432
03:46:33,199 --> 03:46:35,359
it will it cost can they do it and and

5433
03:46:35,359 --> 03:46:36,800
you have to keep in mind it's not just

5434
03:46:36,800 --> 03:46:40,319
us just this past Monday we spent an we

5435
03:46:40,319 --> 03:46:42,080
had an hour meeting with our Gendler

5436
03:46:42,080 --> 03:46:43,920
project team very important kickoff

5437
03:46:43,920 --> 03:46:47,040
team. We spent half the time talking

5438
03:46:47,040 --> 03:46:49,840
about how doing this doing these

5439
03:46:49,840 --> 03:46:53,199
additional um meetings. Half of the time

5440
03:46:53,199 --> 03:46:56,479
and then we're one of many clients they

5441
03:46:56,479 --> 03:46:58,720
have. So the meeting was done and we

5442
03:46:58,720 --> 03:47:00,399
couldn't even get through. We couldn't

5443
03:47:00,399 --> 03:47:02,239
get through it because all of a sudden

5444
03:47:02,239 --> 03:47:04,640
we're completely changed because you had

5445
03:47:04,640 --> 03:47:08,080
one community send you a letter at 7:45

5446
03:47:08,080 --> 03:47:11,840
on Monday morning and now we're all in a

5447
03:47:11,840 --> 03:47:17,199
roller coaster. So I really urge you to

5448
03:47:17,199 --> 03:47:19,840
let us get through this. Let us let

5449
03:47:19,840 --> 03:47:23,920
Gendler do their work. Let us do what we

5450
03:47:23,920 --> 03:47:26,720
need to do. We have assignments that we

5451
03:47:26,720 --> 03:47:29,760
have to do. We have that we had um a

5452
03:47:29,760 --> 03:47:36,720
consultant here today um doing laser scanning and we have to work on

5453
03:47:36,720 --> 03:47:38,800
getting you know we we are obligated to

5454
03:47:38,800 --> 03:47:41,920
do all these things. We can't do it if

5455
03:47:41,920 --> 03:47:45,120
we're continuously responding to council

5456
03:47:45,120 --> 03:47:47,600
member lastm minute

5457
03:47:47,600 --> 03:47:51,760
changing direction. So, you know, I I

5458
03:47:51,760 --> 03:47:54,000
just think that we all want the best

5459
03:47:54,000 --> 03:47:56,720
project possible and and we all want

5460
03:47:56,720 --> 03:47:59,520
this to succeed and if people are

5461
03:47:59,520 --> 03:48:02,000
telling us things, we we kind of have a

5462
03:48:02,000 --> 03:48:08,399
duty to raise it so that, you know, the project is successful and the bond

5463
03:48:08,399 --> 03:48:11,760
passes and and I I really understand and

5464
03:48:11,760 --> 03:48:14,720
appreciate, you know, the the scheduling

5465
03:48:14,720 --> 03:48:17,279
and the ball juggling, etc. Hopefully,

5466
03:48:17,279 --> 03:48:21,120
this won't keep happening, but our our

5467
03:48:21,120 --> 03:48:23,439
all of our goals is the same. We want

5468
03:48:23,439 --> 03:48:27,359
this building to be built to accommodate

5469
03:48:27,359 --> 03:48:29,760
all the functions that may or may not

5470
03:48:29,760 --> 03:48:32,960
happen and using the beautiful design

5471
03:48:32,960 --> 03:48:35,920
that Gendler and Dan Weiny has proposed.

5472
03:48:35,920 --> 03:48:40,560
So, there, you know, there's going to be bumps in the road

5473
03:48:40,560 --> 03:48:43,840
and we have we we all have to be

5474
03:48:43,840 --> 03:48:47,840
flexible. Um, and you know, I think you

5475
03:48:47,840 --> 03:48:49,920
just need to have a conversation with

5476
03:48:49,920 --> 03:48:53,040
Gendler and, you know, kick the tires a

5477
03:48:53,040 --> 03:48:54,720
little bit. And may maybe this isn't

5478
03:48:54,720 --> 03:48:55,920
necessary. Maybe it's already

5479
03:48:55,920 --> 03:48:58,800
encompassed, but maybe it needs to be.

5480
03:48:58,800 --> 03:49:00,640
That's that's all that we need to do. I

5481
03:49:00,640 --> 03:49:02,800
think I I I don't think anyone's trying

5482
03:49:02,800 --> 03:49:04,880
to make a mountain out of a molehill.

5483
03:49:04,880 --> 03:49:07,199
We're just trying to, you know, do the

5484
03:49:07,199 --> 03:49:11,120
best thing that we can. So, Bill, did

5485
03:49:11,120 --> 03:49:13,359
you want to say anything?

5486
03:49:13,359 --> 03:49:16,960
Well, I you know I I appreciate

5487
03:49:16,960 --> 03:49:20,319
everybody's concern, but sometimes, you

5488
03:49:20,319 --> 03:49:22,319
know, you can overthink things and

5489
03:49:22,319 --> 03:49:24,960
sometimes you can spend too much time

5490
03:49:24,960 --> 03:49:26,319
planning because everything's going to

5491
03:49:26,319 --> 03:49:29,199
change anyway. And I, as we've been

5492
03:49:29,199 --> 03:49:31,920
discussing this, I've had this sort of,

5493
03:49:31,920 --> 03:49:34,080
you know, reflection on when I led teams

5494
03:49:34,080 --> 03:49:36,640
of attorneys and everybody wanted to

5495
03:49:36,640 --> 03:49:38,720
have their two cents and the client

5496
03:49:38,720 --> 03:49:40,160
wanted me to meet with them every

5497
03:49:40,160 --> 03:49:42,640
morning and so forth. But, you know, as

5498
03:49:42,640 --> 03:49:44,880
the lead trial counsel, you've got to be

5499
03:49:44,880 --> 03:49:50,880
ready to go and put put witnesses on the the stand. And so, I I have some

5500
03:49:50,880 --> 03:49:52,880
sympathy for Kristen. She's got a huge

5501
03:49:52,880 --> 03:49:56,640
scheduling process and and uh I I do

5502
03:49:56,640 --> 03:49:58,239
think there's a there's a danger of too

5503
03:49:58,239 --> 03:50:00,000
many cooks in the kitchen here. I just

5504
03:50:00,000 --> 03:50:02,160
think we need to get going. I like I

5505
03:50:02,160 --> 03:50:04,399
like that plan of the you know the three

5506
03:50:04,399 --> 03:50:06,319
additional meetings and I think we

5507
03:50:06,319 --> 03:50:09,439
should get going and I I think that we

5508
03:50:09,439 --> 03:50:11,920
will we probably will change some of our

5509
03:50:11,920 --> 03:50:14,080
approach as we go along as we get more

5510
03:50:14,080 --> 03:50:16,080
feedback. But trying to plan it all in

5511
03:50:16,080 --> 03:50:18,960
advance and anticipate it. My experience

5512
03:50:18,960 --> 03:50:21,439
in real estate and in trial work is

5513
03:50:21,439 --> 03:50:23,520
plans are good. You should have a plan,

5514
03:50:23,520 --> 03:50:25,040
but you should realize that you will

5515
03:50:25,040 --> 03:50:26,239
have a different plan when you get to

5516
03:50:26,239 --> 03:50:27,840
the end of it. That's just the way it

5517
03:50:27,840 --> 03:50:30,319
goes. I don't mean to sound cynical, but

5518
03:50:30,319 --> 03:50:32,239
that's just my experience. And I do have

5519
03:50:32,239 --> 03:50:34,800
a lot of it.

5520
03:50:34,800 --> 03:50:37,840
>> And I just I mean I don't think we're

5521
03:50:37,840 --> 03:50:40,080
responding to just like a a community

5522
03:50:40,080 --> 03:50:42,560
member. I mean, we're responding to I

5523
03:50:42,560 --> 03:50:45,439
mean lit literally the architect of the

5524
03:50:45,439 --> 03:50:47,840
whole plan who has a lot of experience.

5525
03:50:47,840 --> 03:50:51,040
So I I think I think you know the more

5526
03:50:51,040 --> 03:50:54,080
we hear from everyone who's involved and

5527
03:50:54,080 --> 03:50:56,800
has experience from town staff, town

5528
03:50:56,800 --> 03:50:59,359
planner, architects, the better off

5529
03:50:59,359 --> 03:51:03,429
we'll be.

5530
03:51:03,439 --> 03:51:05,600
» Yeah. I mean I I'm just going to I like

5531
03:51:05,600 --> 03:51:07,199
it seems like everyone's on a consensus

5532
03:51:07,199 --> 03:51:10,239
for three meetings, but there's the

5533
03:51:10,239 --> 03:51:12,239
elephant in the room is we have

5534
03:51:12,239 --> 03:51:15,120
incredible talent led by Dan Weiny and

5535
03:51:15,120 --> 03:51:17,520
they just need to be incorporated. So

5536
03:51:17,520 --> 03:51:19,359
that when there when we have to hear

5537
03:51:19,359 --> 03:51:22,399
from very valid concerns that aren't

5538
03:51:22,399 --> 03:51:23,920
being incorporated in this process,

5539
03:51:23,920 --> 03:51:25,760
we're going to bring it up and I that's

5540
03:51:25,760 --> 03:51:26,960
our duty.

5541
03:51:26,960 --> 03:51:28,319
>> Well, probably the earlier things are

5542
03:51:28,319 --> 03:51:29,920
incorporated, the better. So if you know

5543
03:51:29,920 --> 03:51:32,000
if we'd heard a few days ago or maybe at

5544
03:51:32,000 --> 03:51:35,120
the day of the contract, you know, um

5545
03:51:35,120 --> 03:51:36,960
what is it called? Space planning should

5546
03:51:36,960 --> 03:51:38,319
be part of it, we could have thought

5547
03:51:38,319 --> 03:51:40,399
about it. I think again it it takes a

5548
03:51:40,399 --> 03:51:42,160
lot of conversation and a lot of

5549
03:51:42,160 --> 03:51:45,120
discussion to kind of adapt as we move

5550
03:51:45,120 --> 03:51:47,359
forward with what's a great contract and

5551
03:51:47,359 --> 03:51:49,040
a great architect firm, but I think

5552
03:51:49,040 --> 03:51:51,279
there will be some back and forth and

5553
03:51:51,279 --> 03:51:54,399
changes as things come up. Like Dan

5554
03:51:54,399 --> 03:51:56,160
saying, space planning is helpful. So,

5555
03:51:56,160 --> 03:51:59,920
we try to fit it in. I think

5556
03:51:59,920 --> 03:52:05,199
all I have to say is let's get going.

5557
03:52:05,199 --> 03:52:09,760
I agree with that. Okay.

5558
03:52:09,760 --> 03:52:12,560
Um,

5559
03:52:12,560 --> 03:52:14,239
>> do we need anything? Do we need a

5560
03:52:14,239 --> 03:52:15,120
motion? Do we need anything?

5561
03:52:15,120 --> 03:52:16,720
>> No, we don't need no motion. I think we

5562
03:52:16,720 --> 03:52:18,080
have enough direction.

5563
03:52:18,080 --> 03:52:19,199
>> You have enough direction.

5564
03:52:19,199 --> 03:52:20,319
>> We have enough direction to move

5565
03:52:20,319 --> 03:52:21,760
forward. Thank you.

5566
03:52:21,760 --> 03:52:23,600
>> Okay,

5567
03:52:23,600 --> 03:52:27,359
then we are moving to item number 18. No

5568
03:52:27,359 --> 03:52:29,359
action items. Um, council

5569
03:52:29,359 --> 03:52:32,000
correspondence,

5570
03:52:32,000 --> 03:52:37,429
future council items, anybody?

5571
03:52:37,439 --> 03:52:39,840
And lastly, council member participation

5572
03:52:39,840 --> 03:52:42,399
at the communication table at the post

5573
03:52:42,399 --> 03:52:50,950
office on September 10.

5574
03:52:50,960 --> 03:52:52,800
» Were you in no show today?

5575
03:52:52,800 --> 03:52:54,640
>> I forgot.

5576
03:52:54,640 --> 03:52:57,920
too. I didn't do a reminder.

5577
03:52:57,920 --> 03:52:59,199
>> Um well

5578
03:52:59,199 --> 03:53:01,120
>> I can't. So help me out.

5579
03:53:01,120 --> 03:53:04,000
>> You guys can tell me later um if you are

5580
03:53:04,000 --> 03:53:07,040
a available on September 10th. I I

5581
03:53:07,040 --> 03:53:08,960
should be able to do it. I'm just seeing

5582
03:53:08,960 --> 03:53:12,000
I should be able to do it number 10.

5583
03:53:12,000 --> 03:53:15,439
>> Okay. Um the last Oh, meeting evaluation

5584
03:53:15,439 --> 03:53:18,560
number 19

5585
03:53:18,560 --> 03:53:21,910
>> comments.

5586
03:53:21,920 --> 03:53:23,520
» Was what?

5587
03:53:23,520 --> 03:53:24,080
>> It was

5588
03:53:24,080 --> 03:53:27,120
>> a little heated. And I I think I would

5589
03:53:27,120 --> 03:53:29,279
just recommend that we be careful. Ben,

5590
03:53:29,279 --> 03:53:31,040
you're usually pretty good about

5591
03:53:31,040 --> 03:53:32,560
reminding us. Yes.

5592
03:53:32,560 --> 03:53:35,279
>> Don't talk over somebody else. If

5593
03:53:35,279 --> 03:53:37,359
somebody's talking, do not let them

5594
03:53:37,359 --> 03:53:40,479
finish. Do not talk over them. And I

5595
03:53:40,479 --> 03:53:42,960
think we should also be pretty

5596
03:53:42,960 --> 03:53:45,439
thoughtful about how long we each speak,

5597
03:53:45,439 --> 03:53:46,479
too.

5598
03:53:46,479 --> 03:53:48,479
>> So,

5599
03:53:48,479 --> 03:53:50,399
I did think it was helpful, Julie, when

5600
03:53:50,399 --> 03:53:52,080
you know, we we made comments and then

5601
03:53:52,080 --> 03:53:53,760
we commented after our comments because

5602
03:53:53,760 --> 03:53:55,760
I think for some of these controversial

5603
03:53:55,760 --> 03:53:57,520
issues, you want to hear what people

5604
03:53:57,520 --> 03:53:59,760
say. You might change what you say. You

5605
03:53:59,760 --> 03:54:02,239
might want to rebut what they say. And

5606
03:54:02,239 --> 03:54:04,880
that I think that that for these issues

5607
03:54:04,880 --> 03:54:06,720
I think that's helpful to have some back

5608
03:54:06,720 --> 03:54:08,560
and forth, you know, sort of a row of us

5609
03:54:08,560 --> 03:54:09,840
and then again. But I thought that was

5610
03:54:09,840 --> 03:54:12,479
very helpful.

5611
03:54:12,479 --> 03:54:15,840
>> Okay. Bill, do you have anything to add?

5612
03:54:15,840 --> 03:54:17,199
>> No, I don't.

5613
03:54:17,199 --> 03:54:17,840
>> Okay.

5614
03:54:17,840 --> 03:54:19,760
>> I'm sleepless in Seattle. That's why I'm

5615
03:54:19,760 --> 03:54:22,239
kind of drooping here.

5616
03:54:22,239 --> 03:54:23,279
>> Good night, everyone.

5617
03:54:23,279 --> 03:54:25,120
>> Thank you. Thank you for being online

5618
03:54:25,120 --> 03:54:27,439
with us. We Okay. All right. We're

5619
03:54:27,439 --> 03:54:28,080
ajourned. Thank you.

5620
03:54:28,080 --> 03:54:34,070
>> Thank you, everybody. Bye bye.

5621
03:54:34,080 --> 03:54:37,399
Oh god.