going to call this meeting to order at
202
beginning with a territorial
acknowledgement. We acknowledge this
meeting is being held on the traditional
territory of the Sanich nations.
Moving on to adoption of the agenda.
Could I get a motion meeting agenda
today? June 2nd. Eric seconder Jamie.
All in favor?
Great. Thank you.
Next, adoption of the minutes from April
7th. Can I get a motion to adopt? Kelly
secondary Eric.
All in favor?
Um, next uh item on the agenda is
development permit for 966
Street. Before we get started, Councelor
Duck, do you have any directions from
council that you want to share?
>> Um, no. This one was pretty
» Um, no. This one was pretty
straightforward. staff have done a good
job on it and there's no real concerns
or issues that council identified um
a large on the block and post it. This
came in conjunction with another
development wasn't so unfortunate to get
moved ahead but this one was
there was any issues and I don't there's
nothing that council said to this recall
>> no I don't recall any any
» no I don't recall any any
>> n I did watch the council discussion
» n I did watch the council discussion
there was a few questions but nothing
>> great Allison introduction
» great Allison introduction
>> okay so this is a development permit
» okay so this is a development permit
application for a 4unit residential
development on this property on 6th
Street, 96166.
It's on the south block of 6 on the west
side just north of Ocean Avenue down
close to Iraq Park. There's an existing
single family house on the property that
would be removed to make way for this
new development. As was just mentioned,
no variances are being requested. It
meets the zoning bylaw. So there'd be
two units in the front that two stories
that would look kind of like a
conventional duplex and then in the back
there would be a building with two
singlecar garages on the main floor and
two dwelling units above the garages. At
the committee of the whole meeting the
applicant indicated that the plan is to
stratify the the development into two
units per strat lot. Essentially half of
the duplex building and half of the back
building. Um they could do that. they
could change their plan and stratify it
into four units. It's the zoning bylaw
permits either. So, it's can be any any
strata layout that the property owner
wants to do. Uh there's one protected
oak tree in the front yard that is being
retained through the design. The
applicants made steps to push the
building back from that corner and work
with the project arborist and the town's
parks department to try to protect that
tree through the redevelopment. All the
four required parking spaces would be
accessed off the lane in the back.
Selena did a review here in the report
of the development against the design
guidelines and you can see that it
complies really well with the
guidelines. There were none that we
wanted to highlight for better um or for
changes to the plans to better address
those guidelines. So the recommendation
is just to that it be approved with one
condition uh that there be a landscape
or yeah deposit taken to secure the hard
and soft on-site landscaping before a
building permit is issued.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over
» Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over
to the applicant. It's all yours.
>> It's all me.
» It's all me.
>> Your presentation is all you
» Your presentation is all you
>> I don't have much to to present to be
» I don't have much to to present to be
honest. Um, we stayed uh within the
guidelines like like you guys uh
mentioned to there's no variances. So,
we just tried to make everything work
within the guidelines that were given to
make it easy on staff, make it on easy
on every everybody around uh in the
situation. So, the designer, Tara, was
supposed to come here, but she's just
running. I dropped the ball a little
bit. She was supposed to last minute
meeting, but she had one from 1 to two.
She might run in here in a little bit,
but uh other than that, we're uh yeah,
it's [snorts] project that I'm kind of
happy with and I think it's a good
alternative to not against forplexes or
anything like that, but I think it's a
nice fitting design to complement the
area and still give additional living
space for um other other, you know,
population. So,
>> okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is
» okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is
that
>> I don't think she wasn't bringing
» I don't think she wasn't bringing
anything. You're just going to talk and
for say mine. So,
>> all right. I'm going to turn it back to
» all right. I'm going to turn it back to
the commission then. Questions,
comments.
[clears throat]
» Not clear why it's here. Pardon me. I'm
not clear why that
was. That was also
>> forming character.
» forming character.
>> That's because it's a form of character
» That's because it's a form of character
that is that concern. It's because it's
four units and it's a form and character
development permit application and so
those are usually by council council
refers those to APC for review against
the design guidelines. So they don't
just come to APC when there's variances
and sometimes a variance will come to
council and it has nothing to do with
form and character and doesn't come to
APC at all. Okay. So it's because it's
the development the major development
permit application.
>> Alison maybe I could just jump in and
» Alison maybe I could just jump in and
just for the other question members
maybe just uh give them an overview.
This is a smooth development. So
>> yeah. So this
» yeah. So this
>> you want to talk about that just for a
» you want to talk about that just for a
sec?
>> Yes. So this is a development that
» Yes. So this is a development that
wasn't like in the zoning bylaw. The
zoning by was changed in 2024 to come in
line with the provincial legislation for
small-cale multi-unit housing. So this
type of development wouldn't have been
permitted before that. They would have
had to subdivide the property to do two
small houses each of which could have a
secondary suite. But with that change in
legislation and our change in the zoning
bylaw, properties this size, like this
one's 520 square meters, I think, um
it's over 280 square meters, which is
the threshold that the provincial
government established for properties
280 mters and over can be developed with
up to four residential units in BC if on
that property you could only do a single
family house or a duplex per four. So,
this does fall under that small scale
multi-unit housing type that the provinc
has changed the legislation to allow
everywhere. Um, yeah, the the number of
units was permitted before, but they had
to go through subdivision to get it and
people don't have to do that anymore.
So, we're starting to see more variety
of housing types and sizes and forms.
You probably all saw the one under
construction around the corner just on
Orchard,
one block up and a little further west
between 7th and 8th. That's a twostory
four-unit building all attached. It kind
of looks like a little townhouse.
>> This is a different form of four units.
» Yeah, I I would anticipate that there's
not a lot of dialogue related. I think
uh it it's
a reasonable uh alternative to the site
that's well done from the constraints
that exist. Uh so for lack of anything
too much to say, I'd throw in a couple
of comments. One which is kind of a pet
concern that I have is with respect to
the location of the heat pumps and it's
just that heat pumps tend to have a lot
of vibration. They also have a lot of
noise and it's right beside the bib.
>> Now I know there's different levels,
» Now I know there's different levels,
different qualities of heat pumps. I've
gone through that myself. So maybe some
consideration for that.
>> Yeah, the uh my brother actually works
» Yeah, the uh my brother actually works
in the heat pump industry. So he's
>> he'sing it out for me. So the units that
» he'sing it out for me. So the units that
they have, the slim the slim units now,
they're very very quiet and they have
variable speeds, right?
>> So you may hear them I mean at night
» So you may hear them I mean at night
it's
>> our coolest temperature. [clears throat]
» our coolest temperature. [clears throat]
>> Um a heat pump working heavily in the
» Um a heat pump working heavily in the
daytime such as today.
>> Uh would be kicking on a little bit
» Uh would be kicking on a little bit
louder, but I mean there's lots of noise
pollution around there to you know
>> damper that sound. So, uh, if it was
» damper that sound. So, uh, if it was
your basic, uh, you know, two foot x two
foot, um, uh, vertical fan spinning, it
would it would be much louder. So,
>> yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it
» yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it
does uh spec out these um these wall we
have to wall mount them because of the
FCL
>> and
» and
given how small they are, we are able to
do that. And because of how small they
are, they have the option of the
variable speed to keep the noise down.
So they'll be way below the I'm not sure
if city has a decibel rating for them.
>> Yeah, they'd be way way below that
» Yeah, they'd be way way below that
>> for sure.
» for sure.
>> Uh the only other comment I guess I I
» Uh the only other comment I guess I I
think uh Alison I remember a comment
about more
uh cover over the uh
upper level exit or entrance from the
garage areas above. and and I would just
in terms of the long run stair
protect it's the emergency exit as well
>> slippery conditions
» slippery conditions
>> I'm sorry where where are we where
» I'm sorry where where are we where
>> coming down from the the units above the
» coming down from the the units above the
garage you got straight run stair
>> just cover over that to protect them a
» just cover over that to protect them a
little bit uh more I think there was a
comment that
>> staff had made
» staff had made
>> okay so over here
» okay so over here
>> ees uh projecting out a little farther.
» ees uh projecting out a little farther.
I mean, if the staircase is out that
far,
>> there's no reason the ees can, but we'll
» there's no reason the ees can, but we'll
we'll look at it that for sure.
>> Yeah. Whether it's connected with the
» Yeah. Whether it's connected with the
eve or or something, maybe some
consideration of that.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> And that's it.
» And that's it.
>> Anybody else could probably jump in?
» Anybody else could probably jump in?
>> Hey, Jamie.
» Hey, Jamie.
>> A couple things. Um I I agree with the
» A couple things. Um I I agree with the
awnings over the um carriage houses
entrances. Uh the um other thing I was
um I noticed with the lighting I don't
know if you can bring the picture up but
uh the lighting on the orchard side or
sorry the sixth street side. Um
>> you remember which planet it was on?
» you remember which planet it was on?
>> Uh not off the top. It's
» Uh not off the top. It's
>> lighting in the front yard.
» lighting in the front yard.
>> Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I
» Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I
think earlier in the document
>> elevation there.
» elevation there.
>> Yeah, the front elevation.
» Yeah, the front elevation.
Uh
you see that um if you go down one that
rendering there the top left I think is
easiest to see it
>> here.
» here.
>> Yeah. So it's got the there's two um
» Yeah. So it's got the there's two um
lights on the front which I think those
will look nice but my concern was that
the actual entrance way itself looks
like the light would probably not reach
around that corner.
>> There'll be there'll be a light inside
» There'll be there'll be a light inside
the sopet
that's required by the building code.
Oh, is it okay?
>> Have a porch light
» Have a porch light
>> and then that will also be like where
» and then that will also be like where
the uh address will be as well. They
will be illuminated and roughly where
that light is is somewhere where the
address is going to be. Just
>> perfect.
» perfect.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the
» Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the
main bedroom, right?
>> That's the front of the house. So,
» That's the front of the house. So,
that's the living room at the very
front. The bedrooms are actually Sorry.
Yeah, the bedrooms are actually at the
at the rear.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um
» Um
way. Sorry.
>> Sorry if I get up here.
» Sorry if I get up here.
>> The front down here.
» The front down here.
>> Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and
» Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and
this is our the front sitting area,
dining room, uh closet walk up the
stairs. There's a little bar, kitchen,
uh laundry, powder room, closet,
>> and
» and
>> that's a door at the back.
» that's a door at the back.
>> Door at the back to the a patio of some
» Door at the back to the a patio of some
sort. Um
>> that will be and right behind there will
» that will be and right behind there will
be the uh the garage starting up the
garage. So
um yeah, that's layout. So the upstairs
uh there is bedroom up at the very top
and at the rear and then a loft area as
well. So
>> sorry I know it's in here but just the
» sorry I know it's in here but just the
distance between the master bedroom's
door and the start of the driveway for
the carriage house
>> start of the driveway or the patio
» start of the driveway or the patio
>> uh
» uh
go to
>> site plan
» site plan
>> the site plan. So, [clears throat] this
» the site plan. So, [clears throat] this
would roughly be where that door is
>> in here somewhere.
» in here somewhere.
>> Right here.
» Right here.
>> I see.
» I see.
>> And then this is the patio area. Their
» And then this is the patio area. Their
own private space. And then
>> yeah, the garage the garage is that way.
» The distance there is between those two
is four meters I think it is. Or is it
two or sorry one?
>> It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So
» It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So
2.7.
>> Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we
» Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we
had to
>> we we were trying to get it
» we we were trying to get it
I would say closer but we had to play
with really specific numbers because the
fire rating that we had to do um and the
glazing so with the windows. So in case
because they are two separate dwellings.
>> Oh yeah.
» Oh yeah.
>> So we have to
» So we have to
>> the numbers are tight but they work.
» Few more just minor things. Um, uh, just
along the same lines as what, um, David
was saying about the, uh, heat pump
positions. Um, I wasn't so concerned
about the noise, but I was thinking the
walkway like along the side of the
house. Um, it's just the position of the
heat pump looks like. It might be kind
of awkward to walk around. I don't know
how the width of the walkway compares
with
>> 2 m. 2 me.
» 2 m. 2 me.
>> It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude
» It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude
any out farther than any of the eaves.
>> Yeah. Okay.
» Yeah. Okay.
>> So, it's within that uh there. So,
» So, it's within that uh there. So,
>> okay.
» okay.
>> Yeah. 2 m. That's
» Yeah. 2 m. That's
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my
» Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my
head I was trying to picture like is it
an wheelbarrow and
do that.
>> Okay. Then the other thing was just
» Okay. Then the other thing was just
super minor. Um I noticed on that block
there's quite a few uh entrances where
the doors are nice colors like there's
reds and blues and stuff like that and I
thought that could uh break up the gray
scale of the front of the sixth street
entrance
>> to uh consider maybe a bit of color on
» to uh consider maybe a bit of color on
the doorway.
>> We were considering um a wood stained
» We were considering um a wood stained
door.
>> Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that
» Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that
we can probably revise on on the
submission to the building.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> We go.
» We go.
>> I mean, that's a a good option as well.
» I mean, that's a a good option as well.
>> Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,
» Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,
we're not looking for like a red or a
pink or a blue door. No offense.
Anybody's got one of those ice down,
>> but yeah, you're right. Just something
» but yeah, you're right. Just something
that just adds a little bit of,
>> you know.
» you know.
>> Yeah. A little more interesting than
» Yeah. A little more interesting than
just a gray or white. Yeah.
Um,
and now I noticed there was um drainage
for the driveways in front of the
garage, but is there any consideration
for like do they come up with permeable
surfaces for those because I know a lot
of developments we'd like to go with
permeable driveways, right?
>> Um, in the driveways in the front or
» Um, in the driveways in the front or
exterior sideyard, do you have a
restriction on how much of those yards
and that anything over 30% up to the
maximum of 50 has to be permeable. Okay.
>> These are in the rear yard off the lane.
» These are in the rear yard off the lane.
And so there's the two full parking
spaces
>> and then the two kind of short driveways
» and then the two kind of short driveways
leading to the garages.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um
» Um
>> Okay. So they're under that threshold.
» Okay. So they're under that threshold.
>> I can't recall if they are permeable or
» I can't recall if they are permeable or
concrete.
>> I believe it's a concrete. The driveway
» I believe it's a concrete. The driveway
is concrete with the drains and there's
the the
>> uh I don't know how you want to define
» uh I don't know how you want to define
permable surfaces right now. They're
>> seem to be kind of changing on the fly.
» seem to be kind of changing on the fly.
So we have concrete pavers that will
have permable sand in between them
>> um within the patio area
» um within the patio area
>> there. So and that was all um
» there. So and that was all um
>> calculated and design in the design as
» calculated and design in the design as
well with the storm water management
system they were doing [clears throat]
that was all looked at as well.
>> Okay. Yeah. as long as there's
» Okay. Yeah. as long as there's
consideration for that.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um
» Um
and then this is kind of a unique one to
your site. Um not the building itself,
but I noticed that uh there's been a um
really nice wood carving out on the
boulevard facing Sixth Street. Do you
have any plans for that? Because it
feels like it'd be a nice thing to keep
or maybe to donate to the town for a
park or something if you don't want it.
>> Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being
» Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being
>> it's being sawed down as we speak.
» it's being sawed down as we speak.
>> Is it okay?
» Is it okay?
>> Yeah. So, they were there I was there
» Yeah. So, they were there I was there
right before that. So, as soon as I kind
of get out, I'll go see how they're
doing. There's the holly that was
removed. Okay.
>> Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning
» Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning
that up. And, um, they they know Capital
Tree Service is doing it. And there's
three guys there and they're they are
uh, hacking it down from there. I'm
picking it up later today. Okay. We'll
see what we can we can do with that. So,
there's a Viking lady on the front and a
Viking on the rear.
>> Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and
» Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and
it is quite hollow, so they know to be
careful. I'm hoping it can stay in one
piece and we'll see what we can do with
that. We did think about that as well.
So,
>> yeah, I just thought it was kind of one
» yeah, I just thought it was kind of one
of those things where you go down that
street and it's like, "Oh, that's sort
of neat."
>> Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000
» Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000
books if anyone's interested. Uh, that
came with the house and a thousand
another set of books. So, maybe I'll
drop copies off for you guys.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> The next meeting.
» The next meeting.
>> I'm not sure what to do with them to be
» I'm not sure what to do with them to be
honest with you. I might have to donate
to a school and open ideas, but there's
50 boxes of brand new books.
>> Well, that's it for me.
» Well, that's it for me.
>> Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I
» Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I
usually try to stay away from commenting
on interior layouts, but those carriage
units are really really tight in my
opinion
>> in in uh retrospect to the bed.
» in in uh retrospect to the bed.
>> Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the
» Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the
space. Like for example, there's no, as
far as I can tell, there's no storage
room, right?
They've got any anything they need to
store. I'm not sure where they would
store those.
Um I I I guess what I'm getting at is
that they're only 300.
>> It's like a hotel room.
» It's like a hotel room.
>> Yeah, exactly.
» Yeah, exactly.
>> So from my perspective, when it's that
» So from my perspective, when it's that
tight,
they you really have to put some extra
effort into making them as livable as
possible. Mhm. [clears throat]
>> So, I don't know if there's a way that
» So, I don't know if there's a way that
you can incorporate storage cuz from
looking at the floor plans, I don't know
where you
>> There there actually was I was pondering
» There there actually was I was pondering
this idea. Um
there's this angled wall right here.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Um we were talking about having this go
» Um we were talking about having this go
out a little further and just because
this furniture is laid out here, it's
not necessarily going to be there. Um
like we had designed there was going to
be uppers and we thought maybe we do a
kitchen island right there which would
give just some more open space but then
you don't have a round table that you
know you don't need a table for four for
living of one. Um so there was going to
be an island there and but
[clears throat] we can work on this and
we thought that we would maybe bring
this out to here which would give some
optional space here or bring this out
here have this out here. This could be
the space and then you know you put your
TV there mounted. So there is a little
bit of area and room right here to uh to
accommodate that.
>> Whatever you could do builtins or or
» Whatever you could do builtins or or
something because people will have stuff
>> garage
» garage
they don't have access.
>> Well this area like yeah like this area
» Well this area like yeah like this area
here what is the measurement here? This
is 3 foot six. So
>> 3T by another three foot that can give
» 3T by another three foot that can give
you know at least a broom closet.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> Um and then there was talks of
» Um and then there was talks of
incorporating an uh a pantry unit. We
still have to figure out the appliance
areas, but they're, you know, having a
pantry unit that can accommodate maybe a
little vacuum or a Dyson or a room or
something. But I I understand what
you're saying. Yeah.
>> And then you've looked to the site plan
» And then you've looked to the site plan
for a minute.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> So, if I read the site plan correctly,
» So, if I read the site plan correctly,
the private open space for the suit is
mainly just an extension of the parking
area. Mhm.
>> And again, it goes back to my comment
» And again, it goes back to my comment
about because this is so tight, that
private space for the suites, in my
opinion, needs to be as livable as
possible.
Um,
and I there's obviously different ways
of doing that to separate it from the
parking,
landscaping, what whatever can be done
to just sort of make that a little bit
more enjoyable space.
>> We we talked about having at the point
» We we talked about having at the point
of the front of the triangle here, we
talked about having a fence line there,
but my concern was accessibility. So
when somebody's coming in uh not as
able-bodied as the next person,
wheelchair heavy not or walker, um it
would get kind of congested in that
area, like it does fit and work, but
it's just I think it it would be
um up to maybe the homeowners at that
end, whoever is living or what they're
doing with that space because they could
be using as a studio as whatever they
would choose to they want to rent it
out. So, it does give a bunch of
options, but that was my my concern is
if having your car here, I mean, it
works. You have your staircase, but just
trying to move around there and then
you'd have to open up a gate and
maneuver around. I just don't see how
that would function.
>> Even don't want to start designing it.
» Even don't want to start designing it.
>> Not my business. But, even if it had
» Not my business. But, even if it had
different paving materials, just to
dimote that that's
>> okay to be a private space as opposed to
» okay to be a private space as opposed to
it's just I think it's blue in concrete
right through. I mean some some and all
I'm saying is something that makes that
space more
>> maybe carrying the bricks that are on
» maybe carrying the bricks that are on
the patio.
>> That's another idea. Just something to
» That's another idea. Just something to
make that a little bit more enticing.
>> Okay.
» Okay.
>> For anybody that's going to be there.
» For anybody that's going to be there.
>> Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got
» Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got
a few other ones. This one I might uh
Alice might direct your way. So,
I have a real big concern about access
for first responders and
all those guys is they're going to be
coming up to the front of the building
not knowing where to find those two
units. So this is something that we work
with when de when when designs come in
like this through from the very start
with our development review committee
which is meeting with people from all
departments about addressing how the
addressing would go and where a sign
would go on the property to show where
the access is to the other units. So
that yeah we work with the fire
department on that. The same issue came
up with the buildings. Do you remember
at at fifth and ocean and fourth and
ocean and right next door at 2436 ocean
because two units face the street and
there's one in the back. So, the same
concern came up. How do we get first
responders or even the pizza delivery
person to find their right front door?
So, yeah, definitely looking into that.
>> Um, and then from walking around that
» Um, and then from walking around that
neighborhood, I know it's mentioned in
the staff report, but I do have some
concerns about the massing of this
building comparison to the other
buildings around it. It's a little one
story. Well, there's three little one
stories
>> to the north of this. Other buildings on
» to the north of this. Other buildings on
that street are one and a half, two
stories, but with uh
>> uh the the house on
» uh the the house on
>> the house on the north side. Um uh
» the house on the north side. Um uh
Dorothy and Linda, I believe, who own
the house.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> I've been communicating with them and
» I've been communicating with them and
she has praised about what we're
building because it's not something that
is around the corner. So, she's actually
really being our side neighbor, she is
really appreciative of what we have
built or are going to build.
>> As well as the fella on the corner. Um,
» As well as the fella on the corner. Um,
>> he is you.
» he is you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.
» Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.
So, he was wondering if maybe
>> we could clean up some of the bush nuts
» we could clean up some of the bush nuts
dropped in his yard for the squirrels
and stuff. So, so I told him we would
help out as much as we can with the
fence as well. My point is when you look
at that streetscape, it's just
>> it is quite a departure from that little
» it is quite a departure from that little
bungalow to the other side. And there's
three like that down there. And then the
other ones on the other side are more
there's some of them are two stories,
but with a different roof form that
seems to be kind of repeated. So
>> yeah, where the floors are built into
» yeah, where the floors are built into
the trusses. I mean we we I mean
alternatively that we could I think
we're in we were able Allison to go up
another whole floor.
>> Yeah, that's right. the provincial
» Yeah, that's right. the provincial
legislation for the small scale
multi-unit does pretty much require
municipalities to allow three stories.
>> So, which which I thought I mean we had
» So, which which I thought I mean we had
the conversation. I just thought that
would be a little too little too tall.
Um, Linda and Dorothy also expressed
they liked our window placements for
privacy purposes on the side. So, Tara
took that into consideration. Um, where
we have our dining room, usually it's
nice to have a nice big dining room
window. This is a transom window that is
six and a half ft off the ground that
you can't peek in over and and take a
look. So, there was thought put into it.
Um the peaks of the roofs, I mean, align
with the neighbors on the left, but um
the neighbors on the right, but we've
had uh appreciative consideration from
them about the design, so I'm content
with what's there. Um
yeah.
Yeah, the one on the on the left on that
image, I'd say based on the streetscape
is a bit of an anomaly. The other ones
are
certainly kind of a different
housing styles, but okay.
>> Um, David, you had something else you
» Um, David, you had something else you
want? Well, it was just in conjunction,
Dennis, with what you were talking about
the sideyard space
units above and so through uh uh you
Allison, I'm assuming for egress,
emergency egress going through to the
rear area out
second means of egress emergency from
front
>> from the front unit.
» from the front unit.
>> Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty
» Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty
technical code question. I'm not a
building inspector so I don't know all
the code requirements but that would be
looked at
>> the case and it also lead you to an area
» the case and it also lead you to an area
that in conjunction with the only
entrance and exit from up above is into
the same area. So they need openness
through the the garage parking areas
unencumbered to be able to eress if in
fact fire is towards front. Sorry,
you're asking about windows in the the
backyard building or the
>> No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's
» No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's
comment about maybe putting some fencing
and so forth. And I'm just wondering if
>> that would un you know if it would limit
» that would un you know if it would limit
I suppose the exiting capabilities uh in
an emergency situation plus the access
to that area from emergency vehicles
too much blocked off because there'll be
probably sideyard fencing
>> and um the only way of getting out if
» and um the only way of getting out if
the former building is on fire.
Well, flipping that around too, the
first responders have direct access from
the lane if the car is at the back of
>> That's right. So,
» That's right. So,
>> I think the fence open as possible.
» I think the fence open as possible.
>> I mean, there would be gates in the
» I mean, there would be gates in the
fence and I think the the first
responders like with every every new
building that gets built, uh, the fire
department looks at the plans and
develop a response plan and then that's
saved on file when they and they review
it as they're going to to the call if
there is one. Um, and codewise that's
part of the building officials review is
they look at the distance between the
buildings and you can see a line here as
as was mentioned by by Brennan a few
minutes ago. Um, this line down here
shows kind of the code property line.
It's not a property line, but that's the
line that we're looking at for
determining how many openings can we
have between the buildings and how big
they can be. the closer together they
are, the smaller those openings can be
to prevent fire spread between the two.
But I think I mean first responders will
work around fences and gates. And yeah,
we don't we don't want to unnecessarily
block things off, but it it wouldn't be
an unsettling situation. Have a fence in
the backyard separating a back lane
access from the rear garden area. Yeah,
my comment is more open is better as
opposed to [clears throat] block.
>> Yeah. The balance between not having
» Yeah. The balance between not having
that privacy space for the sweets.
>> No, I understand.
» No, I understand.
>> The bunker of the car,
» The bunker of the car,
>> right? Is there any uh objection for a
» right? Is there any uh objection for a
future homeowner to do something like
that on their own if they choose like or
or would they be restricted to going
back through like the town of Sydney to
ask permission or if they would like to
do that for their own privacy? Because I
I could also see that if we have a fence
that's going to the main area and they
have if they're permitted to have a
small business up there or a little
hobby shop, you go through the gate as
opposed to mistakenly go through another
gate staircase there. So, I mean, the
options there. I I would hate to put I'm
not in favor of putting something there
when something could be put there if
necessary after. My main concern was
more accessibility to the staircase and
and the cars and not um it's it's it's
tight. Everything works. I just would
like to keep it as open as as possible.
But I feel like there's a ton of options
to create your own private space if
needed down the road. And and someone
might have a 20 foot long Cadillac,
someone might have a 7 foot smart car,
too, which would kind of determine how
much space they're they're going to need
as well.
>> And it will be up to the property owners
» And it will be up to the property owners
to determine who gets which parking
space, if they're going to rent that
unit out, how it will all happen. What
we've seen over the years in this small
lot neighborhood here is that the
landscaping does evolve over time. Like
yes, there's a development permit for
the general form and character and the
general landscaping, but when there's no
strata, when it's a single property
owner involved, even in this case, when
there it sounds like there will be a
strata, um, properties change and evolve
over time. And we don't require a permit
for somebody to put a fence up in a
property like this. We would require a
permit for a fence if they're an
environmentally sensitive area, but
they're not here. So, I mean, we we'd
like people to come in and talk to us
about the changes they're thinking for
their property when they're in a form
and character development permit area
like this one, but they don't need a
permit from us to come in and change
their patio or put in fencing and things
like that,
>> right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of
» right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of
belaboring this point of at making sure
at least the the basic elements of that
privacy space are sort of incorporated
into the development permit, whether
it's different paving materials
>> or um planters or whatever it is. Just
» or um planters or whatever it is. Just
something to distinguish that area a
little bit from the parking that's right
up against it.
Okay, I think I belvered that one
enough.
>> Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh
» Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh
just in regards to your concern about
delivery access to the rear units. Um I
I've done a lot of food delivery myself
and uh my experience with those kind of
buildings where there's a unit in the
back side. Usually the customer will
leave a note saying like go through the
gate around the left side of the
building, that kind of thing. Um, but
newer buildings often will have like the
unit numbers on the door itself and then
they'll have another number at the front
with like an arrow saying go around the
corner.
I'm not too concerned about it person
but um it sounds like it'll be solved.
>> I think Allison you were saying that
» I think Allison you were saying that
when you get to the building permit
stage the
addressing and the direction to the
addresses will be sorted out then. Is
that correct?
>> That's right.
» That's right.
>> Yeah. So it'll be an address post
» Yeah. So it'll be an address post
>> staff we're already thinking about. I
» staff we're already thinking about. I
don't know what the details are for this
one, but there would be some indication
of how to get to those other units from
the street.
» Is there another um development on on
sixth where it's already been cleared?
>> There is six and more north, but it's
» There is six and more north, but it's
the house has been taken down staked
out. Yeah,
>> it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,
» it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,
north of Orchard. I know it's getting I
just had
>> relevant to this, but
» relevant to this, but
>> yeah,
» yeah,
>> I think it's I think it's kind of the
» I think it's I think it's kind of the
same same thing. Only single car
garages. There's no um
>> I don't think it's four units. I think
» I don't think it's four units. I think
it's two units.
>> Yeah, sorry.
» Yeah, sorry.
>> That doesn't need a development permit
» That doesn't need a development permit
like this one.
>> Well, thanks. I just get a sense of
» Well, thanks. I just get a sense of
what's going on.
>> And I only needed the development permit
» And I only needed the development permit
because of those living outs above the
garage.
>> That's right. If you if this one had
» That's right. If you if this one had
been just two units, it would not need a
development permit at all. Just be a
building permit. If you hit three, then
you need a uh then you need a
development project.
>> I do have one a comment. Do you think
» I do have one a comment. Do you think
that down the road, I don't know if this
is the appropriate time to talk about
this, but do you think down the road,
given what this is, is this is different
than your typical forplex that's going
on right now. Um, do you think there
will be a a change in the bylaw to
conform to to a design like this where
it would be labeled as like a secondary
suite as opposed to a four like four
units? Oh, it'll be it would be four
units because the building code can't
consider those units above the garages
as secondary suites because the like
secondary suite by the building code
means you're building to a different
standard of the code as opposed to a
full-on separate dwelling unit. And this
is like these are in a separate
building. They can't be built to those
lower standards of the building.
>> Right. Okay.
» Right. Okay.
>> Um yeah,
» Um yeah,
>> two building permits, two buildings,
» two building permits, two buildings,
>> two two building permits, two
» two two building permits, two
structures.
I can't see us changing the zoning bylaw
to require certain layouts for the
units. Like right now, Sydney zoning
bylaw allows up to four units per
property. It doesn't say they must be
all in one building or they must be in
two separate buildings. It's up to the
owner's imagination for how to lay out
these buildings in a way that conforms
with bylaws and with the building code.
Other municipalities have taken that
small scale multi-unit legislation
direction and developed bylaws that are
more stringent in terms of how you can
lay out those units. But Sydney is kind
of wide open.
>> And just to follow up on that, my
» And just to follow up on that, my
understanding from the staff report is
that you will be bringing back some
design guidelines and an amendment to
the OCP.
Is that correct?
>> That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the
» That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the
design guidelines for this area, the
intensive residential de DP area, they
don't specifically speak to the the
smooth type of development. Um, they
talk about small lot and secondary
suites within the small lot, but they
don't talk about up to four units per
Yeah, that would be a future amendment
to the OCP.
>> Okay. Anybody else have any other
» Okay. Anybody else have any other
comments, questions?
Okay, I'm going to look for a motion
regarding the staff recommendation
that Eric secondary
David
00859
and the performing character of a 4-unit
residential development for the property
at 96166 Street be approved subject to
the condition that the property owner
shall prior to the issuance of the
building permit a pay to the town of
deposit the amount of 115% of the
estimated cost to complete the hard and
soft landscaping for the development.
» Okay, so you moved and who seconded.
David.
So discussion
I've got few things. Um I based on my
comments I'd like to make some
amendments to the recommendation. We can
sever these and go one at a time
if that's uh works better. The first one
would be prior to the amend the
recommendation to say prior to the
issuance of a building permit address
the following design guidelines
25.3.24
too far regarding adjacent buildings.
And that really goes back to my comment.
I I hear what you're saying about your
neighbor's fine with them, but I I think
this could use some attention in terms
of the building form perhaps responding
to the uh streetscape a bit better than
it does. So that's my motivation for
that.
So is there a secondary for that?
motion fails.
Uh the next one is uh regarding private
outdoor space. I know we had a lot of
discussion but I still think it needs
something else in the recommendation
which is that prior to the issuance of a
building permit address design
guidelines 25.4.4
regarding private workspace. That really
defers to the comments I made about
landscaping and enhancing the liability.
Second second that
>> the number you referenced was 25.4.4
» private outdoor space.
>> Right.
» Right.
>> Robert seconded
» Robert seconded
rolls in any uh discussion.
I guess just um uh is so the wording is
to make it more private or sorry do you
mind repeating it again? So my
motivation here is to make that space um
to use it better
word I can think it more livable
>> right
» right
>> leave it to the staff how that gets
» leave it to the staff how that gets
sorted out whether it's landscaping
paving materials fence whatever that
ends up being
>> but to simply have it put it bluntly as
» but to simply have it put it bluntly as
an extension of the parking space and my
view is some tension there seems to be
some receptivity to that in order
discussion already.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> The
» The
question or simple point of order. Um
it when when this uh process that we're
in today finishes, uh we're going to be
putting up a record decision and then
this is uh this is not going to be going
to be back to council. So then that
record of decision
that is being covered under that as
opposed to changing the motion.
>> Well the record of decision correct me
» Well the record of decision correct me
Allison is simply capturing the
discussion about commission. I'm saying
I would like to see it
>> strengthen.
» That's right.
>> That's right. I agree with that. Um we
» That's right. I agree with that. Um we
al have also seen APC use the record of
decision um for a situation where say
one member has a strong view about
something that nobody else has that same
strong view. The record of decision
could say one member felt the
development should be changed by XY Z.
>> So that that that lone thought is still
» So that that that lone thought is still
taken to council but it's not part of
>> so that's an option too to think about
» so that's an option too to think about
>> case
» case
passes it becomes part of your
information. It fails.
» So, we had a mover and a seconder on
that one. Discussion. All those in
favor?
>> Opposed?
Thank you. Um, last one uh is 25.4.25
which is regarding the sweet entry which
we've discussed.
Um,
and it could just be extending the
overhang for the for the entrance to the
suite, but it need it needs
some sort of attention
for a couple reasons. And it's mentioned
in the design guidelines. It's not only
protection for the occupants of that
building. It's also to identify for, for
example, first responders that that's
the entry to the unit. So, it does need
something
more than shown on the drawings.
So, I'm looking for a secondary.
>> So, you're looking for a
» So, you're looking for a
>> to extend the overhangs uh over the
» to extend the overhangs uh over the
stairs
>> leading up to the
» leading up to the
units above the garages.
>> I see.
» I see.
to it actually come out as far as the
really at least
>> it could be can levered. It could be
» it could be can levered. It could be
leave it up to staff.
>> Yeah, David, you brought that up.
» Yeah, David, you brought that up.
>> Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,
» Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,
Alison. Isn't that referred to in your
recommendation though? So, in the staff
report, page five, the top of the report
does say um weather protection could be
improved or the entrances of the two
units at the rear. That's me
paraphrasing the sentence. Um but the
staff recommendation does not have
wording to that effect in it. So, if you
wanted to add that, I'd suggest you use
the same wording that you just did for
the other two motions, saying address
this guideline 25.36
and just refer to that so it's clear to
council what what we're talking about
there. And so, it's worded in the same
way.
>> He's thinking that's 2536.
» He's thinking that's 2536.
>> Yeah. Provide weather protection such as
» Yeah. Provide weather protection such as
awnings and canopies at primary building
entries.
That one if you if you want to.
>> Yeah. No, that makes sense. Thank you.
Okay. And
>> did you want to vote on that or did you
» did you want to vote on that or did you
make a motion?
>> I made the motion. I second it.
» I made the motion. I second it.
>> Did it get voted on?
» Did it get voted on?
>> All in favor?
» All in favor?
Great. Thank you. And then the last one,
and Allison, and correct me if I'm
wrong, I don't need to I don't think I
need to incorporate this into the
recommendation, but the the entry and
the signage from the street to those
carriage suites will be look after a
building permit.
>> That would be a great one for the record
» That would be a great one for the record
of decision if you wanted to mention
that for that.
>> Good point. Okay. So then back to the
» Good point. Okay. So then back to the
main motion as amended.
Want to try that one?
Um,
» did you want Ruth to read it out or
>> Well, we just need to vote on the main
» Well, we just need to vote on the main
motion of amended.
[clears throat]
» Did Did you want us to read it out or
just you're going to vote on the main
motion with those two additions?
>> If that's fine, let's just do it that
» If that's fine, let's just do it that
way. Keep it simple. So, all those in
favor of the main motion as amended
carried. Thank you.
All right. Um,
moving on items disposition by council.
Council
» Third Street. What happened?
>> It's still there.
» It's still there.
>> Actually looking for some clarification
» Actually looking for some clarification
because I watched that council
discussion. I'm not entirely clear what
council did.
They moved the reszoning but not the
development permit or did I not
understand they of the high street? Um
they vote um acceptance of demolition
and they need to come back with on land
I believe because it there was an
acceptance of the setbacks for the
cherry trees and um acceptance of the
parking and yeah go ahead. You probably
have a frame.
>> Okay. I don't I was just going to pull
» Okay. I don't I was just going to pull
it up, but my recollection is council
made a resolution to direct staff to
prepare a bylaw to reszone the property.
So, we're working on drafting that
bylaw. And then they made a motion to
bring forward the development variance
permit for approval if the zoning by is
adopted. And then they made a motion to
bring forward the development permit for
approval if the variance is approved.
So, all of those will come back to
council later. We'll start bringing back
the bylaw.
her first.
>> I got the impression from the mayor's
» I got the impression from the mayor's
comments that he was comfortable with
advancing the zoning the resoning bylaw
but less comfortable with the
development.
>> So all three of them typically move
» So all three of them typically move
forward in this way that the res council
made the resolutions that the
development permit would be considered
for approval if the zoning is approved.
So council hasn't approved the
development permit yet. are just saying
we're going to put that we're going to
consider that consider approving it um
if we pass the zoning bylaw.
>> So theoretically they could adopt the
» So theoretically they could adopt the
reszoning bylaw and not the development.
>> Yeah, correct.
» Yeah, correct.
>> They could it's still council hasn't
» They could it's still council hasn't
made a final decision on that. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
» There was something in the in the
resolution about shifting the driveway
ramp to the underground on Third Street.
shifting that slightly north. Yes.
>> By half a meter to leave a little more
» By half a meter to leave a little more
unexavated space adjacent to those
cherry trees. Correct.
>> I think that was part of it.
» I think that was part of it.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> But they um so I don't want to de labor
» But they um so I don't want to de labor
this, but they have a based on the
additional requirements the commission
put in there. They got a lot of work to
do.
Yeah.
They've got to address the
forestry elevation
between the ramp. Jamie's concerns
bicycle.
>> I had a comment if you don't mind.
» I had a comment if you don't mind.
>> There's a laundry list for them to do.
» There's a laundry list for them to do.
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> That all comes after the result. So here
» That all comes after the result. So here
>> they think we'll end up back at
» they think we'll end up back at
>> um I would say likely
» um I would say likely
>> not not promising just
» not not promising just
>> No, no, it's fine. That was one one of
» No, no, it's fine. That was one one of
two options.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.
» Thank you.
>> Thanks a lot.
» Thanks a lot.
>> I just wanted to mention that
» I just wanted to mention that
High Street actually had a um a little
popup last week outside. Did you go to
that?
>> No, I heard about it.
» No, I heard about it.
>> Okay. because they had updated um
» Okay. because they had updated um
renderings and some of our feedback was
already incorporated in that.
» Sorry,
>> I just realized the committee missed
» I just realized the committee missed
doing the record of decision after you
voted which we normally do before we
talk
>> by council just while it's still fresh
» by council just while it's still fresh
in everybody's heads.
» Yeah.
Address the addressing
Are we going to do this?
>> Yeah.
» Yeah.
>> Live, Ruth.
» Okay.
So, um, yes, based on my comment and
your suggestion, Alison, which was a
good one, something to the effect of
incorporate addressing
for the carriage suites to assist first
responders,
deliveries.
>> Yeah. And deliveries. Good point.
Um if I can uh carry on folks are okay.
I I would also just like to echo some of
the comments I made during our
discussion. The building form should be
more sympathetic to
» the building form should be more
sympathetic to the neighborhood.
Yeah, that's quite sympathetic to the
>> we could say one member thought
» to say yeah council that's not saying
anything
need to make more
give council the direction okay I'll try
not do that but okay [laughter]
just
Dennis maybe before you
do that I thought
this is the whole areas like this are
under evolution and we can see examples
of what's happening developments
developments are going towards this kind
of building which has already started in
this area other areas similarly are
further ahead doing that so I'm not sure
in my own mind that what we're seeing
here irrespective nuances of it doesn't
isn't a precursor to what it's going to
be. So as far as the streetscape now the
smaller buildings are being replaced or
being overtaken purchased and not
replicated single family office
buildings. So
>> I I appreciate that. But if you walk the
» I I appreciate that. But if you walk the
street
>> even the newer buildings they have a
» even the newer buildings they have a
pitch roof form and not the hip roof
that they're proposing. this roof form
on this building is
um would be unusual on that street. So,
it's really the roof form I'm after.
>> We want to mention that
» We want to mention that
>> if you want if you want more guidance
» if you want if you want more guidance
for council
>> more specific if you want your point to
» more specific if you want your point to
be heard here, it doesn't hurt to add
that point. I I mean just from an
objective perspective, there's many
different styles of buildings in this
neighborhood from like a very short
onetory to a tall threetory.
>> So,
» So,
>> but this is what the record of decision
» but this is what the record of decision
is for. If there's one one opinion that
the rest of the committee didn't see
merit in, you can put it in here.
>> They all have the same roof form. One
» They all have the same roof form. One
story, two story, or one and a half
story.
» Not this hip roof, which is really the
going to make it look
Well, I could say one member fell victim
for be more sympathetic.
Would that help counsel more?
>> Yeah.
And then if I can get one last one in
and then I'll
see others that the uh and I can I'm up
for words. So I found this one. The
living environment needs to be enhanced
to compensate strain space. It goes back
to my comment about in the private open
space in the carriage suites. Yeah. The
living environment needs to be the
living environment of the carriage
suites needs to be enhanced.
>> Did you want to put in there like maybe
» Did you want to put in there like maybe
about regarding storage?
>> Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and
» Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and
privacy space.
Okay, that's mine.
» The committee
>> a one member as well.
» That's up to the committee.
>> Look, these are my three. Are they one
» Look, these are my three. Are they one
member felt that things or I don't I
um
I think the uh I think the privacy space
part is where I'm having difficulty with
because the design of this one and I
don't know what how that interpret but I
do think there was a clear direction
around storage this suite has not so I
think that's a legitimate
um observation I would support privacy
face. I think it's it's conceited in
this type of design. I I know you want I
like to have it improved. I show how to
I don't know what that would look like.
>> I do. [laughter]
» I do. [laughter]
>> Okay.
» It sounds like they can do some privacy
space modifications after
building.
I'm not sure.
My my point, Robert, is that I would
like to see the commission
>> put that or in the water sooner. So, at
» put that or in the water sooner. So, at
least
>> whether it's just alternative
» whether it's just alternative
>> Oh, no. I think your recommendation's
» Oh, no. I think your recommendation's
well intentional.
>> Hardcaping something and how they fiddle
» Hardcaping something and how they fiddle
with it afterwards. Is there a business?
>> Yeah, I'm fine with intent.
» Yeah, I'm fine with intent.
>> Yes. One question is the mention of
» Yes. One question is the mention of
privacy space. Is that not similar to
what we moved in the motion for the
recommendation? Yeah, this is just
>> sort of some nar.
» Does the committee want to make any
general comments about the development
as a whole? Usually, it starts with kind
of a more general comment than a
specific, but again, that's up to APC
members what you'd like to say.
>> I I was going to say that uh overall it
» I I was going to say that uh overall it
was seems to be a good fit for the
neighborhood.
the applicant has done
good job
coming up with something for that.
» I agree with that
standpoint as a pencil, right?
of
responding to the site constraints.
So no issues with the size of those
cures. Yes, those are exceptionally
small.
Well,
>> it's a motel room.
» it's a motel room.
>> When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in
» When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in
small space [laughter]
>> that would uh you know, I wouldn't
» that would uh you know, I wouldn't
necessarily say that I'd want to live in
something like that now with my two
kids, but uh uh when I was 25, I think
something like that would be perfectly
acceptable
>> for a single person. I think uh they
» for a single person. I think uh they
will be filled.
Yeah.
One other thing is do we want to add a
little note about my comment about
adding a bit of color to the six street?
I don't know how we word that exactly,
but uh
I specifically was referencing the
doors, but um but I don't know the best
way to word it.
>> Color color details be incorporated into
» Color color details be incorporated into
the front
>> the front doors if that was your point.
» the front doors if that was your point.
>> Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be
» Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be
>> right.
» right.
>> You just want to do it outdoors.
» You just want to do it outdoors.
>> Just identity of the entrance.
» Just identity of the entrance.
>> Yeah, maybe entrance.
» Yeah, maybe entrance.
>> Mostly I was just I had a little look
» Mostly I was just I had a little look
down that block and it seemed like there
was about half of the houses down there
had some kind of color on the doors and
might fit a bit better.
>> Entrances instead of elevation.
» Entrances instead of elevation.
>> Does that do it, Jamie?
» Does that do it, Jamie?
>> Yeah, I think that's probably
A couple of us talked about the heaping
positioning. I don't know if that's
something we want to mention. That might
be a little out of scope, I guess. But
>> sounds like the applicant address those
» sounds like the applicant address those
questions,
>> I guess. So, yeah. Yeah,
» I just read that and I'm gonna take some
guidance from but it would help the
commission if in the future we're
dealing more smooth
that we have some design guidelines that
we can measure
it's a little uncomfortable having sort
of
we use kind of a way our way through
without really having to really measure
Thanks.
>> Well, I think the design guidelines that
» Well, I think the design guidelines that
we have in the OCP for the the small lot
residential, I mean, a lot of those are
just kind of basic good design
principles for dwelling units that are
close together on small properties,
which is not going to change when
there's four dwelling units or two
dwelling units. Um, we can it is on our
list to do. So, we are working on it.
And the thing with these is not all of
the small scale multi-unit projects will
be coming through the development permit
process. They only do when the
properties are already in a form and
character DP area. Like we're seeing
some coming in in other neighborhoods
that are not in a DP area and those just
go through the building permit process
and we have no control over the look of
them. So they don't come to APC. Um but
no, it is on our list. I'll take note of
that for sure. And I'll mention that too
to to Selena and to Romana to Cory the
planners and as we're looking at these
applications to think about that
>> and that would be appreciated. That is a
» and that would be appreciated. That is a
good interesting comment you just made
that there's some with more challenging
form and function design don't come to
APC.
>> Ones that are making an effort do come
» Ones that are making an effort do come
here. We do they get tougher scrutiny
here than they would
>> definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones
» definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones
that that don't go through the
development permit process. It's just a
building permit
>> and we we make them conform to the
» and we we make them conform to the
building code but there's no Yeah.
There's no design control. So
>> I like that one.
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh
» Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh
>> yeah, that one.
» yeah, that one.
>> Yeah, there's a few different ones that
» Yeah, there's a few different ones that
don't. Yeah, that's right.
>> That one, too. That's in an
» That one, too. That's in an
environmentally sensitive DP area, but
not a former character DP area. And the
provincial legislation is pretty clear.
They don't want municipalities creating
DP DP areas for smooth development. They
they're trying to minimize the steps. So
I don't think we'd have any support in
doing
>> anything else director of decision
» anything else director of decision
before we
» all right. We've done items just by
council. So did you want to go back?
>> Are you comfortable?
» Are you comfortable?
>> Is there any more questions about
» Is there any more questions about
>> ice?
» ice?
third [clears throat] street development
and read third
high street development.
So as Alison's pointed out the driveway
they've asked the driveway to be farther
north to give more protection of the
sherry trace of the adjacent property um
and giant and they're addressing the
design facade design on fourth street.
Um I think at this point the middle
cypress tree is on the chopping block.
That'll be the ent way working around
that. Um
I think that's
the meeting but still has to come back
to council for the zoning and then those
things we'll look at those things again
to the development. They can't take the
cyber street down until they get the
zoning direct.
>> They can't remove any trees till they
» They can't remove any trees till they
get a building permit.
>> That was in what we saw in our report.
» That was in what we saw in our report.
>> Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as
» Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as
is and the variances as is, then um
yeah, no trees can be removed. We don't
issue the tree removal permit until the
building permit is ready to go
recognition report. I thought that was a
good idea.
>> The only times you would see protected
» The only times you would see protected
trees coming out earlier than that is if
they're really close to a building being
demolished and the tree will be damaged
when it's being demolished. So in those
cases we can we let them come out.
>> Just a side comment on that looking at
» Just a side comment on that looking at
the three trees together and you take
the center one out and bearing in mind
that it's a access point for emergency
vehicle. I'd suggest that by the time
the big trucks get through between the
two um those other those other two or at
least one of them probably isn't going
to survive it if it ever happens.
>> They give all again the bones
» They give all again the bones
definitions that they looked into it. um
that other locations that have supported
that kind of floating drive, but you're
absolutely correct. Nobody no promises
here other than we can put some
protection on on the trees. But
>> yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that
» yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that
the way it's allowed now to take the one
out. It's very narrow.
>> Actually, if you go take a look at it,
» Actually, if you go take a look at it,
you take the one out of there,
>> there's not much left overhanging. Well,
» there's not much left overhanging. Well,
they'll have to clear out,
>> right?
» right?
>> That's what I remember when I looked at
» That's what I remember when I looked at
it. Yeah, it's fairly
>> I thought it was fairly slim one in the
» I thought it was fairly slim one in the
middle and the other two were
>> it's once someone goes out there will be
» it's once someone goes out there will be
a natural almost natural.
>> Oh, is that right? Okay.
» Oh, is that right? Okay.
>> All right.
» All right.
>> But we're still a ways from that as much
» But we're still a ways from that as much
as
>> there's a number of steps to get through
» there's a number of steps to get through
to get to that. Right.
>> Right. Because what we added was
» Right. Because what we added was
uh shading of the windows that was to
the units to the north. Right. Uh the
fourth street streetscape
overlook
incorporating play areas. Right.
And then in relation to the floating
driveway that there be supervision by a
consulting record,
>> right?
» right?
>> But as point out, we're
» But as point out, we're
a distance away from that. Yeah.
Okay. Any other questions, comments
about that one? like just what I saw at
that popup session and just thought
might be curious to hear that the play
area looks like um they were planning on
I don't know if you remember the little
notch in the south side it's like right
in the corner of that notch they were
talking about probably going to put the
play area there they hadn't established
what exactly that'll be but it looks
like that's their plan to put it down in
that corner
>> just I got a comment I saw that on
» just I got a comment I saw that on
social media that
Allison have they talked to you at all
because what are they doing what
put some ideas around. They haven't even
talked to staff.
>> I haven't heard about that yet.
» I haven't heard about that yet.
>> Um
» Um
>> was like last Friday.
» was like last Friday.
>> Yeah, they did have an on-site open
» Yeah, they did have an on-site open
house for the for the community for
neighbors.
>> Um one of our staff went by and saw that
» Um one of our staff went by and saw that
it seemed to be pretty well attended
even when it first started at 4 p.m. So
>> interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going
» interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going
to ask for a motion to adjurnn.
Amy seconded
in favor. Thank you very