[0:01] going to call this meeting to order at
[0:03] 202
[0:05] beginning with a territorial
[0:07] acknowledgement. We acknowledge this
[0:09] meeting is being held on the traditional
[0:12] territory of the Sanich nations.
[0:15] Moving on to adoption of the agenda.
[0:17] Could I get a motion meeting agenda
[0:21] today? June 2nd. Eric seconder Jamie.
[0:25] All in favor?
[0:27] Great. Thank you.
[0:29] Next, adoption of the minutes from April
[0:32] 7th. Can I get a motion to adopt? Kelly
[0:35] secondary Eric.
[0:38] All in favor?
[0:41] Um, next uh item on the agenda is
[0:44] development permit for 966
[0:47] Street. Before we get started, Councelor
[0:49] Duck, do you have any directions from
[0:52] council that you want to share?
[0:54] >> Um, no. This one was pretty
[0:55] » Um, no. This one was pretty
[0:55] straightforward. staff have done a good
[0:57] job on it and there's no real concerns
[1:00] or issues that council identified um
[1:05] a large on the block and post it. This
[1:10] came in conjunction with another
[1:11] development wasn't so unfortunate to get
[1:14] moved ahead but this one was
[1:17] there was any issues and I don't there's
[1:20] nothing that council said to this recall
[1:23] >> no I don't recall any any
[1:25] » no I don't recall any any
[1:26] >> n I did watch the council discussion
[1:29] » n I did watch the council discussion
[1:29] there was a few questions but nothing
[1:33] >> great Allison introduction
[1:35] » great Allison introduction
[1:35] >> okay so this is a development permit
[1:37] » okay so this is a development permit
[1:37] application for a 4unit residential
[1:39] development on this property on 6th
[1:42] Street, 96166.
[1:44] It's on the south block of 6 on the west
[1:47] side just north of Ocean Avenue down
[1:50] close to Iraq Park. There's an existing
[1:53] single family house on the property that
[1:54] would be removed to make way for this
[1:56] new development. As was just mentioned,
[1:58] no variances are being requested. It
[2:01] meets the zoning bylaw. So there'd be
[2:02] two units in the front that two stories
[2:05] that would look kind of like a
[2:06] conventional duplex and then in the back
[2:09] there would be a building with two
[2:11] singlecar garages on the main floor and
[2:13] two dwelling units above the garages. At
[2:15] the committee of the whole meeting the
[2:17] applicant indicated that the plan is to
[2:20] stratify the the development into two
[2:23] units per strat lot. Essentially half of
[2:26] the duplex building and half of the back
[2:27] building. Um they could do that. they
[2:30] could change their plan and stratify it
[2:31] into four units. It's the zoning bylaw
[2:33] permits either. So, it's can be any any
[2:36] strata layout that the property owner
[2:39] wants to do. Uh there's one protected
[2:41] oak tree in the front yard that is being
[2:44] retained through the design. The
[2:46] applicants made steps to push the
[2:48] building back from that corner and work
[2:49] with the project arborist and the town's
[2:51] parks department to try to protect that
[2:52] tree through the redevelopment. All the
[2:55] four required parking spaces would be
[2:57] accessed off the lane in the back.
[3:00] Selena did a review here in the report
[3:02] of the development against the design
[3:04] guidelines and you can see that it
[3:05] complies really well with the
[3:06] guidelines. There were none that we
[3:08] wanted to highlight for better um or for
[3:11] changes to the plans to better address
[3:13] those guidelines. So the recommendation
[3:15] is just to that it be approved with one
[3:18] condition uh that there be a landscape
[3:20] or yeah deposit taken to secure the hard
[3:25] and soft on-site landscaping before a
[3:27] building permit is issued.
[3:29] >> Yeah.
[3:30] » Yeah.
[3:30] >> Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over
[3:32] » Okay. Thank you. Going to turn it over
[3:32] to the applicant. It's all yours.
[3:35] >> It's all me.
[3:36] » It's all me.
[3:36] >> Your presentation is all you
[3:38] » Your presentation is all you
[3:38] >> I don't have much to to present to be
[3:40] » I don't have much to to present to be
[3:40] honest. Um, we stayed uh within the
[3:43] guidelines like like you guys uh
[3:45] mentioned to there's no variances. So,
[3:46] we just tried to make everything work
[3:48] within the guidelines that were given to
[3:51] make it easy on staff, make it on easy
[3:52] on every everybody around uh in the
[3:54] situation. So, the designer, Tara, was
[3:56] supposed to come here, but she's just
[3:58] running. I dropped the ball a little
[3:59] bit. She was supposed to last minute
[4:01] meeting, but she had one from 1 to two.
[4:03] She might run in here in a little bit,
[4:04] but uh other than that, we're uh yeah,
[4:07] it's [snorts] project that I'm kind of
[4:09] happy with and I think it's a good
[4:11] alternative to not against forplexes or
[4:14] anything like that, but I think it's a
[4:15] nice fitting design to complement the
[4:18] area and still give additional living
[4:20] space for um other other, you know,
[4:24] population. So,
[4:26] >> okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is
[4:29] » okay, thank you. And Terry shows up. Is
[4:29] that
[4:31] >> I don't think she wasn't bringing
[4:32] » I don't think she wasn't bringing
[4:32] anything. You're just going to talk and
[4:33] for say mine. So,
[4:35] >> all right. I'm going to turn it back to
[4:37] » all right. I'm going to turn it back to
[4:37] the commission then. Questions,
[4:40] comments.
[4:41] [clears throat]
[4:46] » Not clear why it's here. Pardon me. I'm
[4:49] not clear why that
[4:52] was. That was also
[4:53] >> forming character.
[4:54] » forming character.
[4:54] >> That's because it's a form of character
[4:56] » That's because it's a form of character
[4:56] that is that concern. It's because it's
[4:58] four units and it's a form and character
[5:01] development permit application and so
[5:03] those are usually by council council
[5:05] refers those to APC for review against
[5:07] the design guidelines. So they don't
[5:09] just come to APC when there's variances
[5:11] and sometimes a variance will come to
[5:12] council and it has nothing to do with
[5:14] form and character and doesn't come to
[5:16] APC at all. Okay. So it's because it's
[5:18] the development the major development
[5:19] permit application.
[5:20] >> Alison maybe I could just jump in and
[5:22] » Alison maybe I could just jump in and
[5:22] just for the other question members
[5:24] maybe just uh give them an overview.
[5:26] This is a smooth development. So
[5:29] >> yeah. So this
[5:29] » yeah. So this
[5:29] >> you want to talk about that just for a
[5:30] » you want to talk about that just for a
[5:30] sec?
[5:31] >> Yes. So this is a development that
[5:33] » Yes. So this is a development that
[5:33] wasn't like in the zoning bylaw. The
[5:36] zoning by was changed in 2024 to come in
[5:38] line with the provincial legislation for
[5:40] small-cale multi-unit housing. So this
[5:43] type of development wouldn't have been
[5:45] permitted before that. They would have
[5:46] had to subdivide the property to do two
[5:48] small houses each of which could have a
[5:50] secondary suite. But with that change in
[5:52] legislation and our change in the zoning
[5:54] bylaw, properties this size, like this
[5:56] one's 520 square meters, I think, um
[5:59] it's over 280 square meters, which is
[6:02] the threshold that the provincial
[6:03] government established for properties
[6:05] 280 mters and over can be developed with
[6:07] up to four residential units in BC if on
[6:10] that property you could only do a single
[6:12] family house or a duplex per four. So,
[6:14] this does fall under that small scale
[6:16] multi-unit housing type that the provinc
[6:18] has changed the legislation to allow
[6:20] everywhere. Um, yeah, the the number of
[6:24] units was permitted before, but they had
[6:27] to go through subdivision to get it and
[6:28] people don't have to do that anymore.
[6:30] So, we're starting to see more variety
[6:32] of housing types and sizes and forms.
[6:34] You probably all saw the one under
[6:36] construction around the corner just on
[6:38] Orchard,
[6:40] one block up and a little further west
[6:41] between 7th and 8th. That's a twostory
[6:45] four-unit building all attached. It kind
[6:46] of looks like a little townhouse.
[6:48] >> This is a different form of four units.
[6:53] » Yeah, I I would anticipate that there's
[6:56] not a lot of dialogue related. I think
[6:58] uh it it's
[7:00] a reasonable uh alternative to the site
[7:04] that's well done from the constraints
[7:05] that exist. Uh so for lack of anything
[7:09] too much to say, I'd throw in a couple
[7:11] of comments. One which is kind of a pet
[7:14] concern that I have is with respect to
[7:16] the location of the heat pumps and it's
[7:19] just that heat pumps tend to have a lot
[7:21] of vibration. They also have a lot of
[7:22] noise and it's right beside the bib.
[7:26] >> Now I know there's different levels,
[7:27] » Now I know there's different levels,
[7:27] different qualities of heat pumps. I've
[7:29] gone through that myself. So maybe some
[7:32] consideration for that.
[7:35] >> Yeah, the uh my brother actually works
[7:37] » Yeah, the uh my brother actually works
[7:37] in the heat pump industry. So he's
[7:39] >> he'sing it out for me. So the units that
[7:42] » he'sing it out for me. So the units that
[7:42] they have, the slim the slim units now,
[7:44] they're very very quiet and they have
[7:46] variable speeds, right?
[7:47] >> So you may hear them I mean at night
[7:49] » So you may hear them I mean at night
[7:49] it's
[7:50] >> our coolest temperature. [clears throat]
[7:51] » our coolest temperature. [clears throat]
[7:51] >> Um a heat pump working heavily in the
[7:53] » Um a heat pump working heavily in the
[7:53] daytime such as today.
[7:55] >> Uh would be kicking on a little bit
[7:56] » Uh would be kicking on a little bit
[7:56] louder, but I mean there's lots of noise
[7:59] pollution around there to you know
[8:01] >> damper that sound. So, uh, if it was
[8:04] » damper that sound. So, uh, if it was
[8:04] your basic, uh, you know, two foot x two
[8:06] foot, um, uh, vertical fan spinning, it
[8:10] would it would be much louder. So,
[8:14] >> yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it
[8:16] » yeah. So, it on on the plans, it's it
[8:16] does uh spec out these um these wall we
[8:20] have to wall mount them because of the
[8:22] FCL
[8:23] >> and
[8:25] » and
[8:25] given how small they are, we are able to
[8:27] do that. And because of how small they
[8:29] are, they have the option of the
[8:30] variable speed to keep the noise down.
[8:32] So they'll be way below the I'm not sure
[8:34] if city has a decibel rating for them.
[8:38] >> Yeah, they'd be way way below that
[8:41] » Yeah, they'd be way way below that
[8:41] >> for sure.
[8:42] » for sure.
[8:42] >> Uh the only other comment I guess I I
[8:44] » Uh the only other comment I guess I I
[8:44] think uh Alison I remember a comment
[8:46] about more
[8:48] uh cover over the uh
[8:52] upper level exit or entrance from the
[8:56] garage areas above. and and I would just
[9:00] in terms of the long run stair
[9:03] protect it's the emergency exit as well
[9:08] >> slippery conditions
[9:09] » slippery conditions
[9:09] >> I'm sorry where where are we where
[9:11] » I'm sorry where where are we where
[9:11] >> coming down from the the units above the
[9:12] » coming down from the the units above the
[9:12] garage you got straight run stair
[9:16] >> just cover over that to protect them a
[9:18] » just cover over that to protect them a
[9:18] little bit uh more I think there was a
[9:20] comment that
[9:22] >> staff had made
[9:24] » staff had made
[9:24] >> okay so over here
[9:26] » okay so over here
[9:26] >> ees uh projecting out a little farther.
[9:28] » ees uh projecting out a little farther.
[9:28] I mean, if the staircase is out that
[9:30] far,
[9:31] >> there's no reason the ees can, but we'll
[9:32] » there's no reason the ees can, but we'll
[9:32] we'll look at it that for sure.
[9:34] >> Yeah. Whether it's connected with the
[9:35] » Yeah. Whether it's connected with the
[9:35] eve or or something, maybe some
[9:38] consideration of that.
[9:39] >> Okay.
[9:40] » Okay.
[9:40] >> Thank you.
[9:42] » Thank you.
[9:42] >> And that's it.
[9:43] » And that's it.
[9:43] >> Anybody else could probably jump in?
[9:45] » Anybody else could probably jump in?
[9:45] >> Hey, Jamie.
[9:47] » Hey, Jamie.
[9:47] >> A couple things. Um I I agree with the
[9:50] » A couple things. Um I I agree with the
[9:50] awnings over the um carriage houses
[9:52] entrances. Uh the um other thing I was
[9:58] um I noticed with the lighting I don't
[10:00] know if you can bring the picture up but
[10:01] uh the lighting on the orchard side or
[10:04] sorry the sixth street side. Um
[10:06] >> you remember which planet it was on?
[10:07] » you remember which planet it was on?
[10:07] >> Uh not off the top. It's
[10:11] » Uh not off the top. It's
[10:11] >> lighting in the front yard.
[10:12] » lighting in the front yard.
[10:12] >> Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I
[10:14] » Yeah, it'll probably be higher up. I
[10:14] think earlier in the document
[10:18] >> elevation there.
[10:18] » elevation there.
[10:18] >> Yeah, the front elevation.
[10:22] » Yeah, the front elevation.
[10:22] Uh
[10:24] you see that um if you go down one that
[10:27] rendering there the top left I think is
[10:30] easiest to see it
[10:31] >> here.
[10:31] » here.
[10:31] >> Yeah. So it's got the there's two um
[10:35] » Yeah. So it's got the there's two um
[10:35] lights on the front which I think those
[10:36] will look nice but my concern was that
[10:38] the actual entrance way itself looks
[10:40] like the light would probably not reach
[10:42] around that corner.
[10:43] >> There'll be there'll be a light inside
[10:44] » There'll be there'll be a light inside
[10:44] the sopet
[10:46] that's required by the building code.
[10:48] Oh, is it okay?
[10:49] >> Have a porch light
[10:50] » Have a porch light
[10:50] >> and then that will also be like where
[10:51] » and then that will also be like where
[10:51] the uh address will be as well. They
[10:54] will be illuminated and roughly where
[10:56] that light is is somewhere where the
[10:57] address is going to be. Just
[10:58] >> perfect.
[10:59] » perfect.
[10:59] >> Yeah.
[10:59] » Yeah.
[10:59] >> Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the
[11:01] » Yeah. Okay, cool. And that goes into the
[11:01] main bedroom, right?
[11:02] >> That's the front of the house. So,
[11:04] » That's the front of the house. So,
[11:04] that's the living room at the very
[11:05] front. The bedrooms are actually Sorry.
[11:07] Yeah, the bedrooms are actually at the
[11:08] at the rear.
[11:09] >> Yeah.
[11:09] » Yeah.
[11:10] >> Um
[11:12] » Um
[11:12] way. Sorry.
[11:13] >> Sorry if I get up here.
[11:16] » Sorry if I get up here.
[11:16] >> The front down here.
[11:17] » The front down here.
[11:17] >> Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and
[11:18] » Yeah. Uh so this will be the entry and
[11:18] this is our the front sitting area,
[11:20] dining room, uh closet walk up the
[11:23] stairs. There's a little bar, kitchen,
[11:25] uh laundry, powder room, closet,
[11:28] >> and
[11:29] » and
[11:29] >> that's a door at the back.
[11:29] » that's a door at the back.
[11:30] >> Door at the back to the a patio of some
[11:32] » Door at the back to the a patio of some
[11:32] sort. Um
[11:33] >> that will be and right behind there will
[11:35] » that will be and right behind there will
[11:35] be the uh the garage starting up the
[11:37] garage. So
[11:39] um yeah, that's layout. So the upstairs
[11:42] uh there is bedroom up at the very top
[11:44] and at the rear and then a loft area as
[11:47] well. So
[11:48] >> sorry I know it's in here but just the
[11:49] » sorry I know it's in here but just the
[11:49] distance between the master bedroom's
[11:51] door and the start of the driveway for
[11:53] the carriage house
[11:55] >> start of the driveway or the patio
[11:57] » start of the driveway or the patio
[11:57] >> uh
[11:59] » uh
[12:00] go to
[12:01] >> site plan
[12:02] » site plan
[12:02] >> the site plan. So, [clears throat] this
[12:05] » the site plan. So, [clears throat] this
[12:05] would roughly be where that door is
[12:09] >> in here somewhere.
[12:10] » in here somewhere.
[12:10] >> Right here.
[12:11] » Right here.
[12:11] >> I see.
[12:12] » I see.
[12:12] >> And then this is the patio area. Their
[12:14] » And then this is the patio area. Their
[12:14] own private space. And then
[12:18] >> yeah, the garage the garage is that way.
[12:23] » The distance there is between those two
[12:26] is four meters I think it is. Or is it
[12:29] two or sorry one?
[12:30] >> It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So
[12:34] » It seems to show 1.2 two and 1.51. So
[12:34] 2.7.
[12:35] >> Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we
[12:37] » Yeah, it does meet the code. And then we
[12:37] had to
[12:38] >> we we were trying to get it
[12:41] » we we were trying to get it
[12:41] I would say closer but we had to play
[12:43] with really specific numbers because the
[12:44] fire rating that we had to do um and the
[12:46] glazing so with the windows. So in case
[12:50] because they are two separate dwellings.
[12:52] >> Oh yeah.
[12:52] » Oh yeah.
[12:52] >> So we have to
[12:53] » So we have to
[12:53] >> the numbers are tight but they work.
[12:58] » Few more just minor things. Um, uh, just
[13:01] along the same lines as what, um, David
[13:03] was saying about the, uh, heat pump
[13:04] positions. Um, I wasn't so concerned
[13:06] about the noise, but I was thinking the
[13:08] walkway like along the side of the
[13:10] house. Um, it's just the position of the
[13:12] heat pump looks like. It might be kind
[13:13] of awkward to walk around. I don't know
[13:15] how the width of the walkway compares
[13:17] with
[13:18] >> 2 m. 2 me.
[13:19] » 2 m. 2 me.
[13:20] >> It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude
[13:21] » It's 2 me. Yeah. And they would protrude
[13:21] any out farther than any of the eaves.
[13:23] >> Yeah. Okay.
[13:23] » Yeah. Okay.
[13:23] >> So, it's within that uh there. So,
[13:26] » So, it's within that uh there. So,
[13:26] >> okay.
[13:26] » okay.
[13:26] >> Yeah. 2 m. That's
[13:28] » Yeah. 2 m. That's
[13:28] >> Yeah.
[13:28] » Yeah.
[13:28] >> Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my
[13:30] » Six feet almost. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. In my
[13:30] head I was trying to picture like is it
[13:32] an wheelbarrow and
[13:35] do that.
[13:36] >> Okay. Then the other thing was just
[13:37] » Okay. Then the other thing was just
[13:37] super minor. Um I noticed on that block
[13:40] there's quite a few uh entrances where
[13:42] the doors are nice colors like there's
[13:43] reds and blues and stuff like that and I
[13:45] thought that could uh break up the gray
[13:47] scale of the front of the sixth street
[13:48] entrance
[13:50] >> to uh consider maybe a bit of color on
[13:51] » to uh consider maybe a bit of color on
[13:51] the doorway.
[13:52] >> We were considering um a wood stained
[13:54] » We were considering um a wood stained
[13:54] door.
[13:54] >> Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that
[13:56] » Oh yeah. Okay. Um, that's something that
[13:56] we can probably revise on on the
[13:58] submission to the building.
[14:00] >> Yeah.
[14:00] » Yeah.
[14:00] >> We go.
[14:01] » We go.
[14:01] >> I mean, that's a a good option as well.
[14:02] » I mean, that's a a good option as well.
[14:02] >> Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,
[14:04] » Yes. Just neutral colors. Yeah. Uh,
[14:04] we're not looking for like a red or a
[14:06] pink or a blue door. No offense.
[14:07] Anybody's got one of those ice down,
[14:09] >> but yeah, you're right. Just something
[14:10] » but yeah, you're right. Just something
[14:10] that just adds a little bit of,
[14:11] >> you know.
[14:12] » you know.
[14:12] >> Yeah. A little more interesting than
[14:13] » Yeah. A little more interesting than
[14:13] just a gray or white. Yeah.
[14:16] Um,
[14:22] and now I noticed there was um drainage
[14:25] for the driveways in front of the
[14:27] garage, but is there any consideration
[14:29] for like do they come up with permeable
[14:31] surfaces for those because I know a lot
[14:33] of developments we'd like to go with
[14:34] permeable driveways, right?
[14:36] >> Um, in the driveways in the front or
[14:39] » Um, in the driveways in the front or
[14:40] exterior sideyard, do you have a
[14:41] restriction on how much of those yards
[14:45] and that anything over 30% up to the
[14:47] maximum of 50 has to be permeable. Okay.
[14:50] >> These are in the rear yard off the lane.
[14:51] » These are in the rear yard off the lane.
[14:52] And so there's the two full parking
[14:53] spaces
[14:55] >> and then the two kind of short driveways
[14:57] » and then the two kind of short driveways
[14:57] leading to the garages.
[14:58] >> Yeah.
[14:59] » Yeah.
[14:59] >> Um
[15:00] » Um
[15:00] >> Okay. So they're under that threshold.
[15:02] » Okay. So they're under that threshold.
[15:02] >> I can't recall if they are permeable or
[15:07] » I can't recall if they are permeable or
[15:07] concrete.
[15:07] >> I believe it's a concrete. The driveway
[15:09] » I believe it's a concrete. The driveway
[15:09] is concrete with the drains and there's
[15:11] the the
[15:13] >> uh I don't know how you want to define
[15:15] » uh I don't know how you want to define
[15:15] permable surfaces right now. They're
[15:18] >> seem to be kind of changing on the fly.
[15:20] » seem to be kind of changing on the fly.
[15:20] So we have concrete pavers that will
[15:22] have permable sand in between them
[15:25] >> um within the patio area
[15:27] » um within the patio area
[15:27] >> there. So and that was all um
[15:30] » there. So and that was all um
[15:30] >> calculated and design in the design as
[15:33] » calculated and design in the design as
[15:33] well with the storm water management
[15:34] system they were doing [clears throat]
[15:36] that was all looked at as well.
[15:37] >> Okay. Yeah. as long as there's
[15:38] » Okay. Yeah. as long as there's
[15:38] consideration for that.
[15:39] >> Thank you.
[15:40] » Thank you.
[15:40] >> Yeah.
[15:41] » Yeah.
[15:41] >> Um
[15:43] » Um
[15:43] and then this is kind of a unique one to
[15:45] your site. Um not the building itself,
[15:48] but I noticed that uh there's been a um
[15:50] really nice wood carving out on the
[15:52] boulevard facing Sixth Street. Do you
[15:54] have any plans for that? Because it
[15:55] feels like it'd be a nice thing to keep
[15:56] or maybe to donate to the town for a
[15:58] park or something if you don't want it.
[15:59] >> Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being
[16:02] » Yeah, it's actually it's it's it's being
[16:02] >> it's being sawed down as we speak.
[16:04] » it's being sawed down as we speak.
[16:04] >> Is it okay?
[16:05] » Is it okay?
[16:05] >> Yeah. So, they were there I was there
[16:07] » Yeah. So, they were there I was there
[16:07] right before that. So, as soon as I kind
[16:08] of get out, I'll go see how they're
[16:10] doing. There's the holly that was
[16:12] removed. Okay.
[16:13] >> Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning
[16:15] » Um, and the guys are just kind of tuning
[16:15] that up. And, um, they they know Capital
[16:18] Tree Service is doing it. And there's
[16:19] three guys there and they're they are
[16:21] uh, hacking it down from there. I'm
[16:22] picking it up later today. Okay. We'll
[16:24] see what we can we can do with that. So,
[16:26] there's a Viking lady on the front and a
[16:27] Viking on the rear.
[16:29] >> Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and
[16:31] » Um, we've knocked on it a little bit and
[16:31] it is quite hollow, so they know to be
[16:34] careful. I'm hoping it can stay in one
[16:35] piece and we'll see what we can do with
[16:36] that. We did think about that as well.
[16:38] So,
[16:38] >> yeah, I just thought it was kind of one
[16:39] » yeah, I just thought it was kind of one
[16:39] of those things where you go down that
[16:40] street and it's like, "Oh, that's sort
[16:41] of neat."
[16:42] >> Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000
[16:44] » Yeah. Yeah. I also have about 2,000
[16:44] books if anyone's interested. Uh, that
[16:47] came with the house and a thousand
[16:49] another set of books. So, maybe I'll
[16:51] drop copies off for you guys.
[16:52] >> Yeah.
[16:53] » Yeah.
[16:53] >> The next meeting.
[16:54] » The next meeting.
[16:54] >> I'm not sure what to do with them to be
[16:55] » I'm not sure what to do with them to be
[16:56] honest with you. I might have to donate
[16:57] to a school and open ideas, but there's
[17:00] 50 boxes of brand new books.
[17:02] >> Well, that's it for me.
[17:05] » Well, that's it for me.
[17:05] >> Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I
[17:08] » Okay. I've got a few comments. Um, I
[17:08] usually try to stay away from commenting
[17:10] on interior layouts, but those carriage
[17:13] units are really really tight in my
[17:17] opinion
[17:17] >> in in uh retrospect to the bed.
[17:20] » in in uh retrospect to the bed.
[17:20] >> Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the
[17:22] » Yeah. Sort of this this the use of the
[17:22] space. Like for example, there's no, as
[17:25] far as I can tell, there's no storage
[17:27] room, right?
[17:30] They've got any anything they need to
[17:33] store. I'm not sure where they would
[17:34] store those.
[17:36] Um I I I guess what I'm getting at is
[17:40] that they're only 300.
[17:42] >> It's like a hotel room.
[17:43] » It's like a hotel room.
[17:44] >> Yeah, exactly.
[17:45] » Yeah, exactly.
[17:45] >> So from my perspective, when it's that
[17:48] » So from my perspective, when it's that
[17:48] tight,
[17:50] they you really have to put some extra
[17:53] effort into making them as livable as
[17:55] possible. Mhm. [clears throat]
[17:56] >> So, I don't know if there's a way that
[17:58] » So, I don't know if there's a way that
[17:58] you can incorporate storage cuz from
[18:00] looking at the floor plans, I don't know
[18:02] where you
[18:02] >> There there actually was I was pondering
[18:05] » There there actually was I was pondering
[18:05] this idea. Um
[18:08] there's this angled wall right here.
[18:10] >> Yeah.
[18:11] » Yeah.
[18:12] >> Um we were talking about having this go
[18:14] » Um we were talking about having this go
[18:14] out a little further and just because
[18:16] this furniture is laid out here, it's
[18:18] not necessarily going to be there. Um
[18:20] like we had designed there was going to
[18:22] be uppers and we thought maybe we do a
[18:23] kitchen island right there which would
[18:26] give just some more open space but then
[18:28] you don't have a round table that you
[18:30] know you don't need a table for four for
[18:32] living of one. Um so there was going to
[18:35] be an island there and but
[18:37] [clears throat] we can work on this and
[18:38] we thought that we would maybe bring
[18:39] this out to here which would give some
[18:41] optional space here or bring this out
[18:44] here have this out here. This could be
[18:46] the space and then you know you put your
[18:47] TV there mounted. So there is a little
[18:49] bit of area and room right here to uh to
[18:52] accommodate that.
[18:53] >> Whatever you could do builtins or or
[18:56] » Whatever you could do builtins or or
[18:56] something because people will have stuff
[18:59] >> garage
[19:01] » garage
[19:01] they don't have access.
[19:03] >> Well this area like yeah like this area
[19:05] » Well this area like yeah like this area
[19:05] here what is the measurement here? This
[19:06] is 3 foot six. So
[19:08] >> 3T by another three foot that can give
[19:10] » 3T by another three foot that can give
[19:10] you know at least a broom closet.
[19:11] >> Okay.
[19:12] » Okay.
[19:12] >> Um and then there was talks of
[19:13] » Um and then there was talks of
[19:14] incorporating an uh a pantry unit. We
[19:17] still have to figure out the appliance
[19:19] areas, but they're, you know, having a
[19:20] pantry unit that can accommodate maybe a
[19:21] little vacuum or a Dyson or a room or
[19:24] something. But I I understand what
[19:25] you're saying. Yeah.
[19:26] >> And then you've looked to the site plan
[19:29] » And then you've looked to the site plan
[19:29] for a minute.
[19:29] >> Yeah.
[19:30] » Yeah.
[19:30] >> So, if I read the site plan correctly,
[19:33] » So, if I read the site plan correctly,
[19:33] the private open space for the suit is
[19:36] mainly just an extension of the parking
[19:38] area. Mhm.
[19:41] >> And again, it goes back to my comment
[19:43] » And again, it goes back to my comment
[19:43] about because this is so tight, that
[19:47] private space for the suites, in my
[19:49] opinion, needs to be as livable as
[19:52] possible.
[19:54] Um,
[19:56] and I there's obviously different ways
[19:58] of doing that to separate it from the
[20:00] parking,
[20:02] landscaping, what whatever can be done
[20:05] to just sort of make that a little bit
[20:08] more enjoyable space.
[20:10] >> We we talked about having at the point
[20:11] » We we talked about having at the point
[20:11] of the front of the triangle here, we
[20:13] talked about having a fence line there,
[20:14] but my concern was accessibility. So
[20:17] when somebody's coming in uh not as
[20:20] able-bodied as the next person,
[20:22] wheelchair heavy not or walker, um it
[20:24] would get kind of congested in that
[20:26] area, like it does fit and work, but
[20:27] it's just I think it it would be
[20:32] um up to maybe the homeowners at that
[20:34] end, whoever is living or what they're
[20:36] doing with that space because they could
[20:37] be using as a studio as whatever they
[20:40] would choose to they want to rent it
[20:42] out. So, it does give a bunch of
[20:44] options, but that was my my concern is
[20:46] if having your car here, I mean, it
[20:48] works. You have your staircase, but just
[20:50] trying to move around there and then
[20:51] you'd have to open up a gate and
[20:53] maneuver around. I just don't see how
[20:54] that would function.
[20:55] >> Even don't want to start designing it.
[20:58] » Even don't want to start designing it.
[20:58] >> Not my business. But, even if it had
[21:00] » Not my business. But, even if it had
[21:00] different paving materials, just to
[21:01] dimote that that's
[21:03] >> okay to be a private space as opposed to
[21:06] » okay to be a private space as opposed to
[21:06] it's just I think it's blue in concrete
[21:08] right through. I mean some some and all
[21:10] I'm saying is something that makes that
[21:12] space more
[21:13] >> maybe carrying the bricks that are on
[21:15] » maybe carrying the bricks that are on
[21:15] the patio.
[21:16] >> That's another idea. Just something to
[21:17] » That's another idea. Just something to
[21:18] make that a little bit more enticing.
[21:20] >> Okay.
[21:20] » Okay.
[21:20] >> For anybody that's going to be there.
[21:22] » For anybody that's going to be there.
[21:22] >> Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got
[21:24] » Um I'll get you a second. I got a I got
[21:24] a few other ones. This one I might uh
[21:27] Alice might direct your way. So,
[21:31] I have a real big concern about access
[21:35] for first responders and
[21:39] all those guys is they're going to be
[21:41] coming up to the front of the building
[21:44] not knowing where to find those two
[21:46] units. So this is something that we work
[21:49] with when de when when designs come in
[21:51] like this through from the very start
[21:53] with our development review committee
[21:55] which is meeting with people from all
[21:56] departments about addressing how the
[21:59] addressing would go and where a sign
[22:01] would go on the property to show where
[22:02] the access is to the other units. So
[22:04] that yeah we work with the fire
[22:05] department on that. The same issue came
[22:07] up with the buildings. Do you remember
[22:08] at at fifth and ocean and fourth and
[22:11] ocean and right next door at 2436 ocean
[22:14] because two units face the street and
[22:15] there's one in the back. So, the same
[22:17] concern came up. How do we get first
[22:18] responders or even the pizza delivery
[22:21] person to find their right front door?
[22:22] So, yeah, definitely looking into that.
[22:26] >> Um, and then from walking around that
[22:30] » Um, and then from walking around that
[22:30] neighborhood, I know it's mentioned in
[22:32] the staff report, but I do have some
[22:35] concerns about the massing of this
[22:37] building comparison to the other
[22:39] buildings around it. It's a little one
[22:41] story. Well, there's three little one
[22:42] stories
[22:43] >> to the north of this. Other buildings on
[22:46] » to the north of this. Other buildings on
[22:46] that street are one and a half, two
[22:50] stories, but with uh
[22:52] >> uh the the house on
[22:53] » uh the the house on
[22:54] >> the house on the north side. Um uh
[22:56] » the house on the north side. Um uh
[22:56] Dorothy and Linda, I believe, who own
[22:59] the house.
[22:59] >> Yeah.
[23:00] » Yeah.
[23:00] >> I've been communicating with them and
[23:01] » I've been communicating with them and
[23:01] she has praised about what we're
[23:03] building because it's not something that
[23:06] is around the corner. So, she's actually
[23:09] really being our side neighbor, she is
[23:12] really appreciative of what we have
[23:15] built or are going to build.
[23:17] >> As well as the fella on the corner. Um,
[23:20] » As well as the fella on the corner. Um,
[23:20] >> he is you.
[23:21] » he is you.
[23:21] >> Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.
[23:23] » Yeah. Yeah. He's right on ocean there.
[23:23] So, he was wondering if maybe
[23:25] >> we could clean up some of the bush nuts
[23:27] » we could clean up some of the bush nuts
[23:28] dropped in his yard for the squirrels
[23:29] and stuff. So, so I told him we would
[23:30] help out as much as we can with the
[23:32] fence as well. My point is when you look
[23:33] at that streetscape, it's just
[23:35] >> it is quite a departure from that little
[23:38] » it is quite a departure from that little
[23:38] bungalow to the other side. And there's
[23:40] three like that down there. And then the
[23:41] other ones on the other side are more
[23:43] there's some of them are two stories,
[23:45] but with a different roof form that
[23:48] seems to be kind of repeated. So
[23:51] >> yeah, where the floors are built into
[23:53] » yeah, where the floors are built into
[23:53] the trusses. I mean we we I mean
[23:55] alternatively that we could I think
[23:57] we're in we were able Allison to go up
[23:59] another whole floor.
[24:00] >> Yeah, that's right. the provincial
[24:01] » Yeah, that's right. the provincial
[24:01] legislation for the small scale
[24:03] multi-unit does pretty much require
[24:05] municipalities to allow three stories.
[24:07] >> So, which which I thought I mean we had
[24:09] » So, which which I thought I mean we had
[24:09] the conversation. I just thought that
[24:10] would be a little too little too tall.
[24:13] Um, Linda and Dorothy also expressed
[24:16] they liked our window placements for
[24:18] privacy purposes on the side. So, Tara
[24:20] took that into consideration. Um, where
[24:22] we have our dining room, usually it's
[24:23] nice to have a nice big dining room
[24:25] window. This is a transom window that is
[24:28] six and a half ft off the ground that
[24:30] you can't peek in over and and take a
[24:32] look. So, there was thought put into it.
[24:34] Um the peaks of the roofs, I mean, align
[24:37] with the neighbors on the left, but um
[24:42] the neighbors on the right, but we've
[24:43] had uh appreciative consideration from
[24:46] them about the design, so I'm content
[24:49] with what's there. Um
[24:53] yeah.
[24:57] Yeah, the one on the on the left on that
[25:00] image, I'd say based on the streetscape
[25:03] is a bit of an anomaly. The other ones
[25:05] are
[25:07] certainly kind of a different
[25:10] housing styles, but okay.
[25:14] >> Um, David, you had something else you
[25:17] » Um, David, you had something else you
[25:17] want? Well, it was just in conjunction,
[25:18] Dennis, with what you were talking about
[25:20] the sideyard space
[25:24] units above and so through uh uh you
[25:28] Allison, I'm assuming for egress,
[25:32] emergency egress going through to the
[25:34] rear area out
[25:37] second means of egress emergency from
[25:41] front
[25:42] >> from the front unit.
[25:43] » from the front unit.
[25:43] >> Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty
[25:46] » Yeah. So the again that's a a pretty
[25:46] technical code question. I'm not a
[25:48] building inspector so I don't know all
[25:49] the code requirements but that would be
[25:51] looked at
[25:52] >> the case and it also lead you to an area
[25:55] » the case and it also lead you to an area
[25:55] that in conjunction with the only
[25:57] entrance and exit from up above is into
[26:00] the same area. So they need openness
[26:02] through the the garage parking areas
[26:06] unencumbered to be able to eress if in
[26:08] fact fire is towards front. Sorry,
[26:11] you're asking about windows in the the
[26:13] backyard building or the
[26:15] >> No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's
[26:17] » No, not windows at all. It was Dennis's
[26:17] comment about maybe putting some fencing
[26:19] and so forth. And I'm just wondering if
[26:24] >> that would un you know if it would limit
[26:27] » that would un you know if it would limit
[26:27] I suppose the exiting capabilities uh in
[26:30] an emergency situation plus the access
[26:32] to that area from emergency vehicles
[26:36] too much blocked off because there'll be
[26:38] probably sideyard fencing
[26:41] >> and um the only way of getting out if
[26:44] » and um the only way of getting out if
[26:44] the former building is on fire.
[26:49] Well, flipping that around too, the
[26:51] first responders have direct access from
[26:53] the lane if the car is at the back of
[26:57] >> That's right. So,
[26:59] » That's right. So,
[26:59] >> I think the fence open as possible.
[27:01] » I think the fence open as possible.
[27:01] >> I mean, there would be gates in the
[27:02] » I mean, there would be gates in the
[27:02] fence and I think the the first
[27:06] responders like with every every new
[27:07] building that gets built, uh, the fire
[27:10] department looks at the plans and
[27:11] develop a response plan and then that's
[27:13] saved on file when they and they review
[27:15] it as they're going to to the call if
[27:17] there is one. Um, and codewise that's
[27:20] part of the building officials review is
[27:22] they look at the distance between the
[27:24] buildings and you can see a line here as
[27:27] as was mentioned by by Brennan a few
[27:29] minutes ago. Um, this line down here
[27:32] shows kind of the code property line.
[27:36] It's not a property line, but that's the
[27:37] line that we're looking at for
[27:39] determining how many openings can we
[27:40] have between the buildings and how big
[27:42] they can be. the closer together they
[27:44] are, the smaller those openings can be
[27:46] to prevent fire spread between the two.
[27:49] But I think I mean first responders will
[27:50] work around fences and gates. And yeah,
[27:52] we don't we don't want to unnecessarily
[27:54] block things off, but it it wouldn't be
[27:56] an unsettling situation. Have a fence in
[27:59] the backyard separating a back lane
[28:01] access from the rear garden area. Yeah,
[28:04] my comment is more open is better as
[28:07] opposed to [clears throat] block.
[28:08] >> Yeah. The balance between not having
[28:11] » Yeah. The balance between not having
[28:11] that privacy space for the sweets.
[28:14] >> No, I understand.
[28:15] » No, I understand.
[28:15] >> The bunker of the car,
[28:16] » The bunker of the car,
[28:16] >> right? Is there any uh objection for a
[28:21] » right? Is there any uh objection for a
[28:21] future homeowner to do something like
[28:22] that on their own if they choose like or
[28:25] or would they be restricted to going
[28:27] back through like the town of Sydney to
[28:29] ask permission or if they would like to
[28:31] do that for their own privacy? Because I
[28:34] I could also see that if we have a fence
[28:35] that's going to the main area and they
[28:38] have if they're permitted to have a
[28:40] small business up there or a little
[28:42] hobby shop, you go through the gate as
[28:44] opposed to mistakenly go through another
[28:45] gate staircase there. So, I mean, the
[28:47] options there. I I would hate to put I'm
[28:50] not in favor of putting something there
[28:52] when something could be put there if
[28:54] necessary after. My main concern was
[28:56] more accessibility to the staircase and
[28:58] and the cars and not um it's it's it's
[29:02] tight. Everything works. I just would
[29:03] like to keep it as open as as possible.
[29:06] But I feel like there's a ton of options
[29:09] to create your own private space if
[29:11] needed down the road. And and someone
[29:13] might have a 20 foot long Cadillac,
[29:16] someone might have a 7 foot smart car,
[29:19] too, which would kind of determine how
[29:20] much space they're they're going to need
[29:22] as well.
[29:23] >> And it will be up to the property owners
[29:25] » And it will be up to the property owners
[29:25] to determine who gets which parking
[29:27] space, if they're going to rent that
[29:28] unit out, how it will all happen. What
[29:31] we've seen over the years in this small
[29:33] lot neighborhood here is that the
[29:35] landscaping does evolve over time. Like
[29:37] yes, there's a development permit for
[29:39] the general form and character and the
[29:41] general landscaping, but when there's no
[29:42] strata, when it's a single property
[29:44] owner involved, even in this case, when
[29:46] there it sounds like there will be a
[29:47] strata, um, properties change and evolve
[29:50] over time. And we don't require a permit
[29:52] for somebody to put a fence up in a
[29:54] property like this. We would require a
[29:56] permit for a fence if they're an
[29:57] environmentally sensitive area, but
[29:59] they're not here. So, I mean, we we'd
[30:01] like people to come in and talk to us
[30:03] about the changes they're thinking for
[30:04] their property when they're in a form
[30:06] and character development permit area
[30:07] like this one, but they don't need a
[30:09] permit from us to come in and change
[30:11] their patio or put in fencing and things
[30:13] like that,
[30:13] >> right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of
[30:15] » right? Which is why I guess I'm kind of
[30:15] belaboring this point of at making sure
[30:17] at least the the basic elements of that
[30:21] privacy space are sort of incorporated
[30:24] into the development permit, whether
[30:25] it's different paving materials
[30:27] >> or um planters or whatever it is. Just
[30:31] » or um planters or whatever it is. Just
[30:32] something to distinguish that area a
[30:34] little bit from the parking that's right
[30:37] up against it.
[30:41] Okay, I think I belvered that one
[30:43] enough.
[30:45] >> Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh
[30:48] » Just just one bill quick comment. Um uh
[30:48] just in regards to your concern about
[30:50] delivery access to the rear units. Um I
[30:52] I've done a lot of food delivery myself
[30:54] and uh my experience with those kind of
[30:56] buildings where there's a unit in the
[30:57] back side. Usually the customer will
[31:00] leave a note saying like go through the
[31:02] gate around the left side of the
[31:03] building, that kind of thing. Um, but
[31:06] newer buildings often will have like the
[31:08] unit numbers on the door itself and then
[31:10] they'll have another number at the front
[31:11] with like an arrow saying go around the
[31:13] corner.
[31:15] I'm not too concerned about it person
[31:17] but um it sounds like it'll be solved.
[31:19] >> I think Allison you were saying that
[31:21] » I think Allison you were saying that
[31:21] when you get to the building permit
[31:22] stage the
[31:25] addressing and the direction to the
[31:27] addresses will be sorted out then. Is
[31:29] that correct?
[31:30] >> That's right.
[31:31] » That's right.
[31:31] >> Yeah. So it'll be an address post
[31:33] » Yeah. So it'll be an address post
[31:33] >> staff we're already thinking about. I
[31:34] » staff we're already thinking about. I
[31:34] don't know what the details are for this
[31:35] one, but there would be some indication
[31:36] of how to get to those other units from
[31:39] the street.
[31:42] » Is there another um development on on
[31:46] sixth where it's already been cleared?
[31:50] >> There is six and more north, but it's
[31:54] » There is six and more north, but it's
[31:54] the house has been taken down staked
[31:55] out. Yeah,
[31:56] >> it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,
[31:58] » it's on the the east side of six. Yeah,
[31:58] north of Orchard. I know it's getting I
[32:00] just had
[32:01] >> relevant to this, but
[32:03] » relevant to this, but
[32:03] >> yeah,
[32:04] » yeah,
[32:04] >> I think it's I think it's kind of the
[32:05] » I think it's I think it's kind of the
[32:05] same same thing. Only single car
[32:08] garages. There's no um
[32:09] >> I don't think it's four units. I think
[32:11] » I don't think it's four units. I think
[32:11] it's two units.
[32:12] >> Yeah, sorry.
[32:13] » Yeah, sorry.
[32:13] >> That doesn't need a development permit
[32:14] » That doesn't need a development permit
[32:14] like this one.
[32:15] >> Well, thanks. I just get a sense of
[32:16] » Well, thanks. I just get a sense of
[32:16] what's going on.
[32:17] >> And I only needed the development permit
[32:18] » And I only needed the development permit
[32:18] because of those living outs above the
[32:20] garage.
[32:20] >> That's right. If you if this one had
[32:22] » That's right. If you if this one had
[32:22] been just two units, it would not need a
[32:23] development permit at all. Just be a
[32:25] building permit. If you hit three, then
[32:26] you need a uh then you need a
[32:29] development project.
[32:30] >> I do have one a comment. Do you think
[32:32] » I do have one a comment. Do you think
[32:32] that down the road, I don't know if this
[32:33] is the appropriate time to talk about
[32:34] this, but do you think down the road,
[32:36] given what this is, is this is different
[32:38] than your typical forplex that's going
[32:40] on right now. Um, do you think there
[32:43] will be a a change in the bylaw to
[32:47] conform to to a design like this where
[32:52] it would be labeled as like a secondary
[32:54] suite as opposed to a four like four
[32:58] units? Oh, it'll be it would be four
[33:00] units because the building code can't
[33:03] consider those units above the garages
[33:05] as secondary suites because the like
[33:07] secondary suite by the building code
[33:10] means you're building to a different
[33:11] standard of the code as opposed to a
[33:14] full-on separate dwelling unit. And this
[33:15] is like these are in a separate
[33:16] building. They can't be built to those
[33:18] lower standards of the building.
[33:20] >> Right. Okay.
[33:21] » Right. Okay.
[33:21] >> Um yeah,
[33:23] » Um yeah,
[33:24] >> two building permits, two buildings,
[33:26] » two building permits, two buildings,
[33:26] >> two two building permits, two
[33:27] » two two building permits, two
[33:27] structures.
[33:30] I can't see us changing the zoning bylaw
[33:32] to require certain layouts for the
[33:33] units. Like right now, Sydney zoning
[33:36] bylaw allows up to four units per
[33:38] property. It doesn't say they must be
[33:39] all in one building or they must be in
[33:41] two separate buildings. It's up to the
[33:43] owner's imagination for how to lay out
[33:44] these buildings in a way that conforms
[33:46] with bylaws and with the building code.
[33:48] Other municipalities have taken that
[33:50] small scale multi-unit legislation
[33:52] direction and developed bylaws that are
[33:55] more stringent in terms of how you can
[33:57] lay out those units. But Sydney is kind
[33:59] of wide open.
[34:00] >> And just to follow up on that, my
[34:01] » And just to follow up on that, my
[34:01] understanding from the staff report is
[34:03] that you will be bringing back some
[34:06] design guidelines and an amendment to
[34:08] the OCP.
[34:09] Is that correct?
[34:10] >> That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the
[34:12] » That right now. Yeah. Right now, the the
[34:12] design guidelines for this area, the
[34:14] intensive residential de DP area, they
[34:18] don't specifically speak to the the
[34:20] smooth type of development. Um, they
[34:22] talk about small lot and secondary
[34:24] suites within the small lot, but they
[34:25] don't talk about up to four units per
[34:29] Yeah, that would be a future amendment
[34:30] to the OCP.
[34:33] >> Okay. Anybody else have any other
[34:35] » Okay. Anybody else have any other
[34:35] comments, questions?
[34:38] Okay, I'm going to look for a motion
[34:41] regarding the staff recommendation
[34:44] that Eric secondary
[34:47] David
[35:08] 00859
[35:10] and the performing character of a 4-unit
[35:12] residential development for the property
[35:14] at 96166 Street be approved subject to
[35:18] the condition that the property owner
[35:19] shall prior to the issuance of the
[35:21] building permit a pay to the town of
[35:24] deposit the amount of 115% of the
[35:27] estimated cost to complete the hard and
[35:29] soft landscaping for the development.
[35:34] » Okay, so you moved and who seconded.
[35:36] David.
[35:38] So discussion
[35:43] I've got few things. Um I based on my
[35:48] comments I'd like to make some
[35:50] amendments to the recommendation. We can
[35:53] sever these and go one at a time
[35:56] if that's uh works better. The first one
[36:00] would be prior to the amend the
[36:03] recommendation to say prior to the
[36:04] issuance of a building permit address
[36:06] the following design guidelines
[36:09] 25.3.24
[36:11] too far regarding adjacent buildings.
[36:15] And that really goes back to my comment.
[36:18] I I hear what you're saying about your
[36:19] neighbor's fine with them, but I I think
[36:22] this could use some attention in terms
[36:24] of the building form perhaps responding
[36:28] to the uh streetscape a bit better than
[36:32] it does. So that's my motivation for
[36:35] that.
[36:37] So is there a secondary for that?
[36:44] motion fails.
[36:47] Uh the next one is uh regarding private
[36:51] outdoor space. I know we had a lot of
[36:52] discussion but I still think it needs
[36:55] something else in the recommendation
[36:58] which is that prior to the issuance of a
[37:00] building permit address design
[37:02] guidelines 25.4.4
[37:04] regarding private workspace. That really
[37:07] defers to the comments I made about
[37:10] landscaping and enhancing the liability.
[37:15] Second second that
[37:17] >> the number you referenced was 25.4.4
[37:23] » private outdoor space.
[37:25] >> Right.
[37:26] » Right.
[37:26] >> Robert seconded
[37:28] » Robert seconded
[37:28] rolls in any uh discussion.
[37:34] I guess just um uh is so the wording is
[37:38] to make it more private or sorry do you
[37:41] mind repeating it again? So my
[37:44] motivation here is to make that space um
[37:48] to use it better
[37:51] word I can think it more livable
[37:52] >> right
[37:53] » right
[37:53] >> leave it to the staff how that gets
[37:56] » leave it to the staff how that gets
[37:56] sorted out whether it's landscaping
[37:58] paving materials fence whatever that
[38:01] ends up being
[38:02] >> but to simply have it put it bluntly as
[38:05] » but to simply have it put it bluntly as
[38:05] an extension of the parking space and my
[38:07] view is some tension there seems to be
[38:11] some receptivity to that in order
[38:13] discussion already.
[38:14] >> Yeah.
[38:15] » Yeah.
[38:15] >> The
[38:17] » The
[38:17] question or simple point of order. Um
[38:22] it when when this uh process that we're
[38:28] in today finishes, uh we're going to be
[38:31] putting up a record decision and then
[38:38] this is uh this is not going to be going
[38:41] to be back to council. So then that
[38:45] record of decision
[38:48] that is being covered under that as
[38:51] opposed to changing the motion.
[38:54] >> Well the record of decision correct me
[38:56] » Well the record of decision correct me
[38:56] Allison is simply capturing the
[38:58] discussion about commission. I'm saying
[39:01] I would like to see it
[39:02] >> strengthen.
[39:06] » That's right.
[39:07] >> That's right. I agree with that. Um we
[39:09] » That's right. I agree with that. Um we
[39:09] al have also seen APC use the record of
[39:12] decision um for a situation where say
[39:14] one member has a strong view about
[39:15] something that nobody else has that same
[39:17] strong view. The record of decision
[39:19] could say one member felt the
[39:21] development should be changed by XY Z.
[39:23] >> So that that that lone thought is still
[39:26] » So that that that lone thought is still
[39:26] taken to council but it's not part of
[39:29] >> so that's an option too to think about
[39:32] » so that's an option too to think about
[39:32] >> case
[39:34] » case
[39:34] passes it becomes part of your
[39:35] information. It fails.
[39:41] » So, we had a mover and a seconder on
[39:43] that one. Discussion. All those in
[39:45] favor?
[39:47] >> Opposed?
[39:50] Thank you. Um, last one uh is 25.4.25
[39:58] which is regarding the sweet entry which
[40:00] we've discussed.
[40:02] Um,
[40:06] and it could just be extending the
[40:07] overhang for the for the entrance to the
[40:10] suite, but it need it needs
[40:13] some sort of attention
[40:16] for a couple reasons. And it's mentioned
[40:17] in the design guidelines. It's not only
[40:19] protection for the occupants of that
[40:21] building. It's also to identify for, for
[40:24] example, first responders that that's
[40:26] the entry to the unit. So, it does need
[40:29] something
[40:31] more than shown on the drawings.
[40:34] So, I'm looking for a secondary.
[40:38] >> So, you're looking for a
[40:39] » So, you're looking for a
[40:40] >> to extend the overhangs uh over the
[40:43] » to extend the overhangs uh over the
[40:43] stairs
[40:45] >> leading up to the
[40:47] » leading up to the
[40:47] units above the garages.
[40:51] >> I see.
[40:53] » I see.
[40:53] to it actually come out as far as the
[40:56] really at least
[40:57] >> it could be can levered. It could be
[41:00] » it could be can levered. It could be
[41:00] leave it up to staff.
[41:03] >> Yeah, David, you brought that up.
[41:05] » Yeah, David, you brought that up.
[41:05] >> Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,
[41:08] » Yeah. And and correct me if I'm wrong,
[41:08] Alison. Isn't that referred to in your
[41:10] recommendation though? So, in the staff
[41:13] report, page five, the top of the report
[41:16] does say um weather protection could be
[41:18] improved or the entrances of the two
[41:20] units at the rear. That's me
[41:22] paraphrasing the sentence. Um but the
[41:24] staff recommendation does not have
[41:26] wording to that effect in it. So, if you
[41:28] wanted to add that, I'd suggest you use
[41:29] the same wording that you just did for
[41:31] the other two motions, saying address
[41:33] this guideline 25.36
[41:38] and just refer to that so it's clear to
[41:40] council what what we're talking about
[41:41] there. And so, it's worded in the same
[41:43] way.
[41:44] >> He's thinking that's 2536.
[41:47] » He's thinking that's 2536.
[41:48] >> Yeah. Provide weather protection such as
[41:49] » Yeah. Provide weather protection such as
[41:49] awnings and canopies at primary building
[41:51] entries.
[41:53] That one if you if you want to.
[41:54] >> Yeah. No, that makes sense. Thank you.
[42:01] Okay. And
[42:03] >> did you want to vote on that or did you
[42:04] » did you want to vote on that or did you
[42:04] make a motion?
[42:06] >> I made the motion. I second it.
[42:08] » I made the motion. I second it.
[42:08] >> Did it get voted on?
[42:11] » Did it get voted on?
[42:11] >> All in favor?
[42:14] » All in favor?
[42:14] Great. Thank you. And then the last one,
[42:16] and Allison, and correct me if I'm
[42:18] wrong, I don't need to I don't think I
[42:20] need to incorporate this into the
[42:21] recommendation, but the the entry and
[42:24] the signage from the street to those
[42:26] carriage suites will be look after a
[42:29] building permit.
[42:29] >> That would be a great one for the record
[42:31] » That would be a great one for the record
[42:31] of decision if you wanted to mention
[42:33] that for that.
[42:33] >> Good point. Okay. So then back to the
[42:38] » Good point. Okay. So then back to the
[42:38] main motion as amended.
[42:43] Want to try that one?
[42:48] Um,
[42:52] » did you want Ruth to read it out or
[42:55] >> Well, we just need to vote on the main
[42:56] » Well, we just need to vote on the main
[42:56] motion of amended.
[42:59] [clears throat]
[43:01] » Did Did you want us to read it out or
[43:03] just you're going to vote on the main
[43:04] motion with those two additions?
[43:06] >> If that's fine, let's just do it that
[43:07] » If that's fine, let's just do it that
[43:07] way. Keep it simple. So, all those in
[43:09] favor of the main motion as amended
[43:13] carried. Thank you.
[43:16] All right. Um,
[43:19] moving on items disposition by council.
[43:22] Council
[43:26] » Third Street. What happened?
[43:28] >> It's still there.
[43:31] » It's still there.
[43:31] >> Actually looking for some clarification
[43:33] » Actually looking for some clarification
[43:33] because I watched that council
[43:35] discussion. I'm not entirely clear what
[43:37] council did.
[43:39] They moved the reszoning but not the
[43:41] development permit or did I not
[43:44] understand they of the high street? Um
[43:48] they vote um acceptance of demolition
[43:51] and they need to come back with on land
[43:55] I believe because it there was an
[43:57] acceptance of the setbacks for the
[44:00] cherry trees and um acceptance of the
[44:04] parking and yeah go ahead. You probably
[44:08] have a frame.
[44:09] >> Okay. I don't I was just going to pull
[44:11] » Okay. I don't I was just going to pull
[44:11] it up, but my recollection is council
[44:13] made a resolution to direct staff to
[44:15] prepare a bylaw to reszone the property.
[44:17] So, we're working on drafting that
[44:18] bylaw. And then they made a motion to
[44:22] bring forward the development variance
[44:23] permit for approval if the zoning by is
[44:25] adopted. And then they made a motion to
[44:28] bring forward the development permit for
[44:30] approval if the variance is approved.
[44:32] So, all of those will come back to
[44:33] council later. We'll start bringing back
[44:35] the bylaw.
[44:37] her first.
[44:39] >> I got the impression from the mayor's
[44:40] » I got the impression from the mayor's
[44:40] comments that he was comfortable with
[44:43] advancing the zoning the resoning bylaw
[44:47] but less comfortable with the
[44:48] development.
[44:49] >> So all three of them typically move
[44:51] » So all three of them typically move
[44:51] forward in this way that the res council
[44:54] made the resolutions that the
[44:56] development permit would be considered
[44:58] for approval if the zoning is approved.
[45:00] So council hasn't approved the
[45:01] development permit yet. are just saying
[45:03] we're going to put that we're going to
[45:04] consider that consider approving it um
[45:07] if we pass the zoning bylaw.
[45:10] >> So theoretically they could adopt the
[45:11] » So theoretically they could adopt the
[45:12] reszoning bylaw and not the development.
[45:14] >> Yeah, correct.
[45:15] » Yeah, correct.
[45:15] >> They could it's still council hasn't
[45:16] » They could it's still council hasn't
[45:16] made a final decision on that. Yeah.
[45:19] >> Yeah.
[45:24] » There was something in the in the
[45:26] resolution about shifting the driveway
[45:29] ramp to the underground on Third Street.
[45:31] shifting that slightly north. Yes.
[45:34] >> By half a meter to leave a little more
[45:35] » By half a meter to leave a little more
[45:35] unexavated space adjacent to those
[45:37] cherry trees. Correct.
[45:38] >> I think that was part of it.
[45:41] » I think that was part of it.
[45:41] >> Yeah.
[45:41] » Yeah.
[45:41] >> But they um so I don't want to de labor
[45:44] » But they um so I don't want to de labor
[45:44] this, but they have a based on the
[45:47] additional requirements the commission
[45:49] put in there. They got a lot of work to
[45:51] do.
[45:53] Yeah.
[45:54] They've got to address the
[45:58] forestry elevation
[46:00] between the ramp. Jamie's concerns
[46:03] bicycle.
[46:05] >> I had a comment if you don't mind.
[46:06] » I had a comment if you don't mind.
[46:06] >> There's a laundry list for them to do.
[46:08] » There's a laundry list for them to do.
[46:08] >> Yeah.
[46:09] » Yeah.
[46:09] >> That all comes after the result. So here
[46:14] » That all comes after the result. So here
[46:14] >> they think we'll end up back at
[46:17] » they think we'll end up back at
[46:17] >> um I would say likely
[46:21] » um I would say likely
[46:21] >> not not promising just
[46:22] » not not promising just
[46:22] >> No, no, it's fine. That was one one of
[46:25] » No, no, it's fine. That was one one of
[46:25] two options.
[46:26] >> Thank you.
[46:26] » Thank you.
[46:26] >> Thank you.
[46:27] » Thank you.
[46:27] >> Thank you.
[46:28] » Thank you.
[46:28] >> Thanks a lot.
[46:29] » Thanks a lot.
[46:29] >> I just wanted to mention that
[46:32] » I just wanted to mention that
[46:32] High Street actually had a um a little
[46:34] popup last week outside. Did you go to
[46:36] that?
[46:36] >> No, I heard about it.
[46:37] » No, I heard about it.
[46:37] >> Okay. because they had updated um
[46:39] » Okay. because they had updated um
[46:39] renderings and some of our feedback was
[46:41] already incorporated in that.
[46:46] » Sorry,
[46:46] >> I just realized the committee missed
[46:47] » I just realized the committee missed
[46:47] doing the record of decision after you
[46:49] voted which we normally do before we
[46:51] talk
[46:52] >> by council just while it's still fresh
[46:54] » by council just while it's still fresh
[46:54] in everybody's heads.
[47:01] » Yeah.
[47:03] Address the addressing
[47:07] Are we going to do this?
[47:09] >> Yeah.
[47:10] » Yeah.
[47:10] >> Live, Ruth.
[47:20] » Okay.
[47:26] So, um, yes, based on my comment and
[47:30] your suggestion, Alison, which was a
[47:32] good one, something to the effect of
[47:34] incorporate addressing
[47:37] for the carriage suites to assist first
[47:39] responders,
[47:50] deliveries.
[47:51] >> Yeah. And deliveries. Good point.
[48:00] Um if I can uh carry on folks are okay.
[48:04] I I would also just like to echo some of
[48:06] the comments I made during our
[48:07] discussion. The building form should be
[48:10] more sympathetic to
[48:15] » the building form should be more
[48:16] sympathetic to the neighborhood.
[48:24] Yeah, that's quite sympathetic to the
[48:26] >> we could say one member thought
[48:32] » to say yeah council that's not saying
[48:35] anything
[48:38] need to make more
[48:40] give council the direction okay I'll try
[48:44] not do that but okay [laughter]
[48:47] just
[48:49] Dennis maybe before you
[48:52] do that I thought
[48:55] this is the whole areas like this are
[48:57] under evolution and we can see examples
[49:00] of what's happening developments
[49:03] developments are going towards this kind
[49:05] of building which has already started in
[49:08] this area other areas similarly are
[49:11] further ahead doing that so I'm not sure
[49:14] in my own mind that what we're seeing
[49:16] here irrespective nuances of it doesn't
[49:20] isn't a precursor to what it's going to
[49:22] be. So as far as the streetscape now the
[49:25] smaller buildings are being replaced or
[49:27] being overtaken purchased and not
[49:31] replicated single family office
[49:34] buildings. So
[49:36] >> I I appreciate that. But if you walk the
[49:39] » I I appreciate that. But if you walk the
[49:39] street
[49:40] >> even the newer buildings they have a
[49:43] » even the newer buildings they have a
[49:43] pitch roof form and not the hip roof
[49:46] that they're proposing. this roof form
[49:48] on this building is
[49:51] um would be unusual on that street. So,
[49:56] it's really the roof form I'm after.
[49:59] >> We want to mention that
[50:00] » We want to mention that
[50:00] >> if you want if you want more guidance
[50:02] » if you want if you want more guidance
[50:02] for council
[50:03] >> more specific if you want your point to
[50:06] » more specific if you want your point to
[50:06] be heard here, it doesn't hurt to add
[50:08] that point. I I mean just from an
[50:11] objective perspective, there's many
[50:13] different styles of buildings in this
[50:15] neighborhood from like a very short
[50:16] onetory to a tall threetory.
[50:19] >> So,
[50:20] » So,
[50:20] >> but this is what the record of decision
[50:22] » but this is what the record of decision
[50:22] is for. If there's one one opinion that
[50:24] the rest of the committee didn't see
[50:25] merit in, you can put it in here.
[50:27] >> They all have the same roof form. One
[50:29] » They all have the same roof form. One
[50:29] story, two story, or one and a half
[50:31] story.
[50:35] » Not this hip roof, which is really the
[50:38] going to make it look
[50:40] Well, I could say one member fell victim
[50:44] for be more sympathetic.
[50:47] Would that help counsel more?
[50:50] >> Yeah.
[50:54] And then if I can get one last one in
[50:57] and then I'll
[50:59] see others that the uh and I can I'm up
[51:03] for words. So I found this one. The
[51:04] living environment needs to be enhanced
[51:06] to compensate strain space. It goes back
[51:09] to my comment about in the private open
[51:11] space in the carriage suites. Yeah. The
[51:14] living environment needs to be the
[51:16] living environment of the carriage
[51:17] suites needs to be enhanced.
[51:21] >> Did you want to put in there like maybe
[51:24] » Did you want to put in there like maybe
[51:24] about regarding storage?
[51:26] >> Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and
[51:31] » Yeah, storage landscaping or storage and
[51:31] privacy space.
[51:35] Okay, that's mine.
[51:39] » The committee
[51:40] >> a one member as well.
[51:46] » That's up to the committee.
[51:48] >> Look, these are my three. Are they one
[51:51] » Look, these are my three. Are they one
[51:51] member felt that things or I don't I
[51:55] um
[51:58] I think the uh I think the privacy space
[52:02] part is where I'm having difficulty with
[52:03] because the design of this one and I
[52:05] don't know what how that interpret but I
[52:07] do think there was a clear direction
[52:09] around storage this suite has not so I
[52:13] think that's a legitimate
[52:16] um observation I would support privacy
[52:20] face. I think it's it's conceited in
[52:23] this type of design. I I know you want I
[52:27] like to have it improved. I show how to
[52:29] I don't know what that would look like.
[52:31] >> I do. [laughter]
[52:34] » I do. [laughter]
[52:34] >> Okay.
[52:38] » It sounds like they can do some privacy
[52:39] space modifications after
[52:42] building.
[52:44] I'm not sure.
[52:46] My my point, Robert, is that I would
[52:49] like to see the commission
[52:51] >> put that or in the water sooner. So, at
[52:53] » put that or in the water sooner. So, at
[52:53] least
[52:54] >> whether it's just alternative
[52:56] » whether it's just alternative
[52:56] >> Oh, no. I think your recommendation's
[52:58] » Oh, no. I think your recommendation's
[52:58] well intentional.
[52:59] >> Hardcaping something and how they fiddle
[53:02] » Hardcaping something and how they fiddle
[53:02] with it afterwards. Is there a business?
[53:04] >> Yeah, I'm fine with intent.
[53:08] » Yeah, I'm fine with intent.
[53:08] >> Yes. One question is the mention of
[53:10] » Yes. One question is the mention of
[53:10] privacy space. Is that not similar to
[53:12] what we moved in the motion for the
[53:14] recommendation? Yeah, this is just
[53:18] >> sort of some nar.
[53:23] » Does the committee want to make any
[53:24] general comments about the development
[53:26] as a whole? Usually, it starts with kind
[53:28] of a more general comment than a
[53:30] specific, but again, that's up to APC
[53:32] members what you'd like to say.
[53:34] >> I I was going to say that uh overall it
[53:38] » I I was going to say that uh overall it
[53:38] was seems to be a good fit for the
[53:41] neighborhood.
[53:43] the applicant has done
[53:49] good job
[53:52] coming up with something for that.
[53:59] » I agree with that
[54:03] standpoint as a pencil, right?
[54:13] of
[54:15] responding to the site constraints.
[54:33] So no issues with the size of those
[54:35] cures. Yes, those are exceptionally
[54:37] small.
[54:41] Well,
[54:44] >> it's a motel room.
[54:45] » it's a motel room.
[54:45] >> When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in
[54:49] » When when I when I was uh 25, I lived in
[54:49] small space [laughter]
[54:52] >> that would uh you know, I wouldn't
[54:53] » that would uh you know, I wouldn't
[54:53] necessarily say that I'd want to live in
[54:55] something like that now with my two
[54:57] kids, but uh uh when I was 25, I think
[55:00] something like that would be perfectly
[55:02] acceptable
[55:03] >> for a single person. I think uh they
[55:05] » for a single person. I think uh they
[55:05] will be filled.
[55:07] Yeah.
[55:10] One other thing is do we want to add a
[55:12] little note about my comment about
[55:14] adding a bit of color to the six street?
[55:18] I don't know how we word that exactly,
[55:19] but uh
[55:23] I specifically was referencing the
[55:24] doors, but um but I don't know the best
[55:27] way to word it.
[55:28] >> Color color details be incorporated into
[55:30] » Color color details be incorporated into
[55:30] the front
[55:33] >> the front doors if that was your point.
[55:35] » the front doors if that was your point.
[55:35] >> Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be
[55:37] » Yeah. Could be window trim. It could be
[55:37] >> right.
[55:39] » right.
[55:39] >> You just want to do it outdoors.
[55:40] » You just want to do it outdoors.
[55:40] >> Just identity of the entrance.
[55:43] » Just identity of the entrance.
[55:43] >> Yeah, maybe entrance.
[55:45] » Yeah, maybe entrance.
[55:45] >> Mostly I was just I had a little look
[55:47] » Mostly I was just I had a little look
[55:47] down that block and it seemed like there
[55:48] was about half of the houses down there
[55:49] had some kind of color on the doors and
[55:51] might fit a bit better.
[55:52] >> Entrances instead of elevation.
[55:54] » Entrances instead of elevation.
[55:54] >> Does that do it, Jamie?
[55:55] » Does that do it, Jamie?
[55:55] >> Yeah, I think that's probably
[56:11] A couple of us talked about the heaping
[56:13] positioning. I don't know if that's
[56:14] something we want to mention. That might
[56:16] be a little out of scope, I guess. But
[56:18] >> sounds like the applicant address those
[56:20] » sounds like the applicant address those
[56:20] questions,
[56:20] >> I guess. So, yeah. Yeah,
[56:26] » I just read that and I'm gonna take some
[56:28] guidance from but it would help the
[56:31] commission if in the future we're
[56:33] dealing more smooth
[56:36] that we have some design guidelines that
[56:38] we can measure
[56:40] it's a little uncomfortable having sort
[56:42] of
[56:45] we use kind of a way our way through
[56:48] without really having to really measure
[56:51] Thanks.
[56:51] >> Well, I think the design guidelines that
[56:53] » Well, I think the design guidelines that
[56:53] we have in the OCP for the the small lot
[56:56] residential, I mean, a lot of those are
[56:58] just kind of basic good design
[57:00] principles for dwelling units that are
[57:02] close together on small properties,
[57:04] which is not going to change when
[57:05] there's four dwelling units or two
[57:07] dwelling units. Um, we can it is on our
[57:09] list to do. So, we are working on it.
[57:11] And the thing with these is not all of
[57:13] the small scale multi-unit projects will
[57:15] be coming through the development permit
[57:17] process. They only do when the
[57:19] properties are already in a form and
[57:20] character DP area. Like we're seeing
[57:23] some coming in in other neighborhoods
[57:25] that are not in a DP area and those just
[57:27] go through the building permit process
[57:28] and we have no control over the look of
[57:30] them. So they don't come to APC. Um but
[57:33] no, it is on our list. I'll take note of
[57:34] that for sure. And I'll mention that too
[57:37] to to Selena and to Romana to Cory the
[57:40] planners and as we're looking at these
[57:42] applications to think about that
[57:44] >> and that would be appreciated. That is a
[57:46] » and that would be appreciated. That is a
[57:46] good interesting comment you just made
[57:48] that there's some with more challenging
[57:52] form and function design don't come to
[57:54] APC.
[57:55] >> Ones that are making an effort do come
[57:57] » Ones that are making an effort do come
[57:57] here. We do they get tougher scrutiny
[57:59] here than they would
[58:00] >> definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones
[58:02] » definitely. Yeah. Because the the ones
[58:02] that that don't go through the
[58:03] development permit process. It's just a
[58:05] building permit
[58:06] >> and we we make them conform to the
[58:08] » and we we make them conform to the
[58:08] building code but there's no Yeah.
[58:10] There's no design control. So
[58:12] >> I like that one.
[58:19] » Yeah.
[58:19] >> Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh
[58:23] » Yeah. By bank and rest haven. Oh
[58:23] >> yeah, that one.
[58:25] » yeah, that one.
[58:25] >> Yeah, there's a few different ones that
[58:27] » Yeah, there's a few different ones that
[58:27] don't. Yeah, that's right.
[58:30] >> That one, too. That's in an
[58:31] » That one, too. That's in an
[58:31] environmentally sensitive DP area, but
[58:33] not a former character DP area. And the
[58:36] provincial legislation is pretty clear.
[58:38] They don't want municipalities creating
[58:40] DP DP areas for smooth development. They
[58:43] they're trying to minimize the steps. So
[58:45] I don't think we'd have any support in
[58:47] doing
[58:47] >> anything else director of decision
[58:49] » anything else director of decision
[58:49] before we
[58:56] » all right. We've done items just by
[58:59] council. So did you want to go back?
[59:02] >> Are you comfortable?
[59:03] » Are you comfortable?
[59:03] >> Is there any more questions about
[59:05] » Is there any more questions about
[59:05] >> ice?
[59:08] » ice?
[59:08] third [clears throat] street development
[59:09] and read third
[59:11] high street development.
[59:14] So as Alison's pointed out the driveway
[59:16] they've asked the driveway to be farther
[59:18] north to give more protection of the
[59:20] sherry trace of the adjacent property um
[59:24] and giant and they're addressing the
[59:26] design facade design on fourth street.
[59:29] Um I think at this point the middle
[59:33] cypress tree is on the chopping block.
[59:36] That'll be the ent way working around
[59:39] that. Um
[59:43] I think that's
[59:45] the meeting but still has to come back
[59:47] to council for the zoning and then those
[59:50] things we'll look at those things again
[59:52] to the development. They can't take the
[59:56] cyber street down until they get the
[59:58] zoning direct.
[59:59] >> They can't remove any trees till they
[1:00:01] » They can't remove any trees till they
[1:00:01] get a building permit.
[1:00:01] >> That was in what we saw in our report.
[1:00:03] » That was in what we saw in our report.
[1:00:03] >> Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as
[1:00:05] » Yeah. Even if council approves the DP as
[1:00:05] is and the variances as is, then um
[1:00:08] yeah, no trees can be removed. We don't
[1:00:10] issue the tree removal permit until the
[1:00:12] building permit is ready to go
[1:00:15] recognition report. I thought that was a
[1:00:16] good idea.
[1:00:16] >> The only times you would see protected
[1:00:18] » The only times you would see protected
[1:00:18] trees coming out earlier than that is if
[1:00:20] they're really close to a building being
[1:00:22] demolished and the tree will be damaged
[1:00:23] when it's being demolished. So in those
[1:00:25] cases we can we let them come out.
[1:00:27] >> Just a side comment on that looking at
[1:00:30] » Just a side comment on that looking at
[1:00:30] the three trees together and you take
[1:00:31] the center one out and bearing in mind
[1:00:34] that it's a access point for emergency
[1:00:37] vehicle. I'd suggest that by the time
[1:00:39] the big trucks get through between the
[1:00:41] two um those other those other two or at
[1:00:44] least one of them probably isn't going
[1:00:46] to survive it if it ever happens.
[1:00:48] >> They give all again the bones
[1:00:51] » They give all again the bones
[1:00:51] definitions that they looked into it. um
[1:00:54] that other locations that have supported
[1:00:57] that kind of floating drive, but you're
[1:00:59] absolutely correct. Nobody no promises
[1:01:01] here other than we can put some
[1:01:03] protection on on the trees. But
[1:01:06] >> yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that
[1:01:07] » yeah, I'm thinking of the overhead that
[1:01:07] the way it's allowed now to take the one
[1:01:10] out. It's very narrow.
[1:01:11] >> Actually, if you go take a look at it,
[1:01:12] » Actually, if you go take a look at it,
[1:01:12] you take the one out of there,
[1:01:14] >> there's not much left overhanging. Well,
[1:01:17] » there's not much left overhanging. Well,
[1:01:17] they'll have to clear out,
[1:01:19] >> right?
[1:01:20] » right?
[1:01:20] >> That's what I remember when I looked at
[1:01:21] » That's what I remember when I looked at
[1:01:21] it. Yeah, it's fairly
[1:01:23] >> I thought it was fairly slim one in the
[1:01:25] » I thought it was fairly slim one in the
[1:01:25] middle and the other two were
[1:01:27] >> it's once someone goes out there will be
[1:01:29] » it's once someone goes out there will be
[1:01:29] a natural almost natural.
[1:01:30] >> Oh, is that right? Okay.
[1:01:32] » Oh, is that right? Okay.
[1:01:32] >> All right.
[1:01:33] » All right.
[1:01:33] >> But we're still a ways from that as much
[1:01:36] » But we're still a ways from that as much
[1:01:36] as
[1:01:37] >> there's a number of steps to get through
[1:01:40] » there's a number of steps to get through
[1:01:40] to get to that. Right.
[1:01:44] >> Right. Because what we added was
[1:01:46] » Right. Because what we added was
[1:01:46] uh shading of the windows that was to
[1:01:49] the units to the north. Right. Uh the
[1:01:54] fourth street streetscape
[1:01:56] overlook
[1:01:58] incorporating play areas. Right.
[1:02:03] And then in relation to the floating
[1:02:07] driveway that there be supervision by a
[1:02:10] consulting record,
[1:02:11] >> right?
[1:02:13] » right?
[1:02:13] >> But as point out, we're
[1:02:17] » But as point out, we're
[1:02:17] a distance away from that. Yeah.
[1:02:21] Okay. Any other questions, comments
[1:02:23] about that one? like just what I saw at
[1:02:26] that popup session and just thought
[1:02:28] might be curious to hear that the play
[1:02:30] area looks like um they were planning on
[1:02:32] I don't know if you remember the little
[1:02:33] notch in the south side it's like right
[1:02:35] in the corner of that notch they were
[1:02:37] talking about probably going to put the
[1:02:38] play area there they hadn't established
[1:02:39] what exactly that'll be but it looks
[1:02:40] like that's their plan to put it down in
[1:02:43] that corner
[1:02:44] >> just I got a comment I saw that on
[1:02:46] » just I got a comment I saw that on
[1:02:46] social media that
[1:02:49] Allison have they talked to you at all
[1:02:51] because what are they doing what
[1:02:54] put some ideas around. They haven't even
[1:02:55] talked to staff.
[1:02:57] >> I haven't heard about that yet.
[1:02:59] » I haven't heard about that yet.
[1:02:59] >> Um
[1:03:00] » Um
[1:03:00] >> was like last Friday.
[1:03:01] » was like last Friday.
[1:03:01] >> Yeah, they did have an on-site open
[1:03:03] » Yeah, they did have an on-site open
[1:03:03] house for the for the community for
[1:03:06] neighbors.
[1:03:07] >> Um one of our staff went by and saw that
[1:03:09] » Um one of our staff went by and saw that
[1:03:09] it seemed to be pretty well attended
[1:03:10] even when it first started at 4 p.m. So
[1:03:13] >> interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going
[1:03:16] » interesting. Okay. All right. I'm going
[1:03:16] to ask for a motion to adjurnn.
[1:03:19] Amy seconded
[1:03:21] in favor. Thank you very