[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[0:00] So
[0:17] that's my goal in
[0:45] life recording in progress.
[0:58] I'm in
[1:03] Harper.
[1:07] Someone's volume.
[1:09] David, do you want to turn off your volume?
[1:16] Commissioner Vaughan.
[1:18] Here. Commissioner Whitty.
[1:21] Here. Commissioner Barnes.
[1:24] Here. Commissioner Gordon.
[1:28] Commissioner Modo.
[1:30] Here. Commissioner Gross.
[1:33] Commissioner Shanahan.
[1:38] We have a forum.
[1:39] Next
[1:43] item is public comment, is there any member of the public comments or something that's not
[1:49] possible to become a person to apply it up to
[1:54] this.
[1:55] You have to comment on that.
[1:57] You might not.
[2:00] Just out of curiosity, are you here because you'd like to comment on the public on the
[2:05] plan update,
[2:09] just to hear you, sir, if you'd like to comment,
[2:15] okay, fair enough,
[2:18] in that
[2:18] The next item on the agenda is a approval of the minutes of our last meeting.
[2:25] Would somebody like to make it a motion to approve them?
[2:31] I'll make a motion for the minutes.
[2:33] Second?
[2:33] All second.
[2:34] Thank you.
[2:36] Do we need a roll call for that time?
[2:40] Chairman Harper?
[2:41] Yes.
[2:43] Commissioner.
[2:44] Bon?
[2:46] Yes.
[2:48] Commissioner Whitty?
[2:49] Yes.
[2:51] Yes.
[2:52] Commissioner Modo?
[2:54] Yes.
[3:01] I'm that brings us to the comprehensive plan update.
[3:04] Renee, are you going to introduce this?
[3:07] Yeah.
[3:09] We have Nora from Cushing Terrell here this evening.
[3:14] She's going to go through the presentation.
[3:16] We can ask questions talk about it.
[3:19] I'll let her lead the conversation.
[3:33] Is this on?
[3:39] Is that okay online?
[3:42] I think so.
[3:44] Is this on?
[3:48] It should automatically be on.
[3:52] Hmm.
[3:53] Can you hear me?
[3:55] Don't you seem very cute?
[3:56] No.
[3:57] Okay.
[3:58] Maybe I was just whispering.
[4:03] Wow.
[4:03] I think you have to speak quite closely to it for it to be effective.
[4:07] Got it.
[4:09] It's my screen sharing, though, on the Zoom and everything.
[4:13] Yeah, okay, great. All right.
[4:15] Oh.
[4:16] Well, that's not there nowadays.
[4:18] Okay, great.
[4:20] Thank you so much commissioners for having us tonight.
[4:22] This is a really exciting milestone in the comprehensive plan update,
[4:27] and we're thrilled to share where we've been so far with you.
[4:32] By way of agenda, we're going to talk a little bit about how the engagement process has been
[4:36] to date and then really just jump into the draft plan and all of its elements and then we'll
[4:45] open it up for questions and discussion. So the outreach process in summer 2024 we kicked this
[4:53] We had a project website, survey, and then from that community survey.
[5:00] We found that we had a couple of gaps in terms of folks that we weren't reaching as well, so then we did a business survey and a renter survey.
[5:09] And then moving into fall and winter of last year, we had stakeholder group meetings and then committee meetings and updates to those committees and then updates to you all and council.
[5:23] And then the spring we did our speaker series, a pop up event really mostly to advertise our open house, our first open house event and then did another community survey that was really basically just a reflection of the open house event for folks who couldn't attend.
[5:42] Moving into this summer and fall, we did a kind of a priority survey at the Chile fest event which led into our next open house and then again an online activity to mirror the open house event and then here we are today updating you all.
[6:07] I want to highlight some changes that have been important as a part of this update to the 2012 Comprehensive Plan.
[6:19] It did have a concurrent development with the Transportation Plan that was adopted this year.
[6:24] So really carefully coordinating land use and transportation strategies.
[6:29] We have included an executive summary in this version that wasn't present before.
[6:33] We do have an implementation chapter with action items that are assigned a priority, a timeline, and then some strategic partners to help with that implementation that didn't exist in the previous plan.
[6:50] We have updated the opportunity areas, some were developed, others were not, new ones were added.
[6:59] And those are going to play a really important role in the town's economic future.
[7:04] And then there has been new state legislation since 2012.
[7:09] This document is digitally accessible.
[7:12] Water element is addressed throughout the plan and then sustainable growth is a part of the land use section of the plan.
[7:20] So, the vision, kind of, overall community vision is a community for all, so vibrant, inclusive community where all people are valued, diversity is celebrated and both residents and businesses are empowered to shape their shared future.
[7:37] And then we've kind of used this acronym throughout the plan to highlight the community values.
[7:45] So superior distinct town character, healthy and inaccessible environment, active and connected neighborhoods, prepared and resilient community, and then economic vibrancy.
[8:00] And I know this is a lot of words, so I'm happy to revisit this page.
[8:03] But I know there's some other priorities that we want to get to and we can come back to this one if we want to.
[8:10] So we've got these nine plan elements.
[8:13] Land use addresses the future land use map and designations, which we've discussed over time with you all.
[8:20] The opportunity areas and then character and built form.
[8:23] Community is really about the people population, cultural identity, engagement and town events.
[8:31] Economic development is about workforce, jobs, and the town's long-term fiscal sustainability.
[8:38] Housing, we talk about supply, affordability, and really what the need is.
[8:43] Sustainability addresses, greenhouse gases, water energy systems, and green building.
[8:49] Resiliency is more about that hazard mitigation and partnerships to be more prepared and resilient in the future.
[8:56] Parks recreation and open space talks about the existing network and amenities and how open space plays a role in the overall town.
[9:06] Town utilities and infrastructure.
[9:09] We talk about utilities, health and safety and ongoing maintenance and then transportation.
[9:15] Really a lot of high in the transportation plan.
[9:20] So we've got kind of three main elements of recommendations within each plan topic or plan
[9:28] element that make up really the meat of the comprehensive plan.
[9:32] Goals are more broad statements for achieving the vision.
[9:36] It's been represented really a set of guidelines that help you all and town council
[9:41] and town staff with decision-making.
[9:42] and then actions are a lot more detailed their steps taken by
[10:00] Departments or partner organizations to further implement the goals and policies.
[10:08] This is the future land use map with its land use designations. So we go from low density to medium density residential and then kind of move into mixed use, commercial and office, light industrial, civic and then we differentiate between open space, natural and open space recreation.
[10:31] And then parks in open space, which is kind of the more the most developed type of parks in open space.
[10:43] So the opportunity areas is probably where we're going to spend the most time to night.
[10:49] As you know, the town is almost entirely built out.
[10:54] And so these are areas of development or redevelopment that are truly critical to the town's future.
[11:00] And supporting diverse mix of land uses that helps with the town's bottom line and also supports the things that residents want to see in their community.
[11:13] So we're talking we're starting with 76 in Guardian as a background information.
[11:18] It's four parcels on 26 or to sorry 23 acres.
[11:23] It's mostly vacant right now, and in the 2012 comprehensive plan, the preferred land uses where
[11:32] light industrial or flecks or community-oriented uses or medium density residential.
[11:40] And, sorry, just as what you're expecting to see here, for each of these opportunity areas,
[11:45] we're going to talk about the background, what we heard from the community and then what
[11:51] Town staff and the consultants are recommending to include in the comprehensive plan for these areas.
[11:57] So what we heard from the community for preferred land uses was housing, low density,
[12:04] low density, multi-family, to medium density, multi-family units.
[12:08] Light industrial or neither scenario or no development.
[12:14] Our recommendation for primary land use is medium density to multi-family residential and
[12:26] light industrial uses, understanding that there are some approved expansion for the guardian storage that's there right now.
[12:34] And then supporting could be some kind of retail like a daycare facility.
[12:39] built form would be greater modified grid.
[12:44] The site kind of supports that type of block pattern.
[12:48] Partial sizes would be kind of medium size.
[12:52] And then building scale would be town homes to multi-family.
[12:56] And then up to two story for that light industrial.
[13:00] Their transit recommendations would be pedestrian connections
[13:04] to the park and ride.
[13:05] and then surface and or garage parking.
[13:13] Discovery office park is five parcels, 12.2 acres,
[13:18] existing land use is vacant and that commercial use.
[13:22] I just know that we've kind of approved some stuff for that lot already.
[13:29] Is that going to be shown in the plan or?
[13:32] It's not because it's still vacant but it is approved.
[13:36] So, but we don't have, what the zoning is approved for Guardian on that southern lot.
[13:43] But there's no development plan approved yet for it, so it's still included in this
[13:50] opportunity area.
[13:51] It is the annexed, so there's, we're not going to put anything in the, we are in the plan.
[13:59] We ensured that the buses built proposed, like the recommended uses include that
[14:06] light industrial and that it matches what was proposed as part of that approval. So it's
[14:14] not called out specifically as a developed parcel because it's not developed and the FDP's
[14:21] not approved yet, but the recommended uses support the uses and zoning that was during
[14:31] process when, yeah, it kind of pretends that nothing's been improved, but that's fine, I guess.
[14:38] Well, you know, some of the other lots also have approvals, but they're not developed yet.
[14:44] So the idea is that if it's not developed we're going to include it until it's developed or there's,
[14:50] you know, a clear development that's happening on there. I'm sure Guardian is moving forward.
[14:58] They have reached the end.
[15:00] And said when can, like, they're preparing documents to submit for the, they're final development plan.
[15:09] But can the recommended uses make sure that they call out the uses that were approved in that guardian PD?
[15:20] But it might be worth mentioning in the plan that this is something that a project is moving forward there.
[15:30] We couldn't, we couldn't.
[15:32] Even if it was just a comment that...
[15:35] Yeah, it got a story to occupy some of the spaces planning to expand.
[15:40] We couldn't take anything along the lines of the use that's been approved recently.
[15:47] that we believe to be moving forward. Maybe not call out specific ownership information because
[15:55] it feels weird in a comprehensive plan to do that. I mean it seems strange not to mention it.
[16:01] He does, yeah. Yes. Or you know like like something in the written portion.
[16:08] Oh yeah maybe just something that hey there is something that that goes along with these recommendations
[16:14] that's in the works. Because yeah, they can lose funding and then it won't be
[16:19] built. So, right. But according to this, it is an approved, like it does align with the
[16:26] comprehensive plan. Right. It's just not calling that one out in particular.
[16:33] Yeah,
[16:34] we should put something in the plan to state that we have these things in the works at
[16:39] this time or not. That we're anticipating the construction of a light industrial use on
[16:45] other portion. Maybe we could look at how we would write something, how we would include that
[16:53] in the written, like, outdate the plan immediately. Right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Correct. Right.
[16:59] Storm that. Okay.
[17:03] Discovery and vacant and a portion of this site is commercial,
[17:09] plan envisioned and makes abuses to complement town center, including but not limited to office
[17:15] and commercial community feedback preferred land uses were office and commercial housing in the form of town homes or multi family mixed use or neither scenario and no development and I I'll add a note here you're going to see neither scenario or no development on every single one of and I'm sure that's nothing new to you, but that was feedback that we got on the open house to survey was that we needed to include an option for
[17:45] for no development and obviously people,
[17:48] we'll select that option.
[17:52] Recommendations for and office,
[17:54] those office uses would be prioritized along discovery,
[17:58] Parkway, since there is no access off of McCaslin.
[18:04] Supporting uses being commercial,
[18:07] built form, the site is really only compatible
[18:10] with a curvilinear block pattern,
[18:13] our features and just the topography of the site.
[18:17] Partial size would be around medium, transit, pedestrian connection,
[18:23] prioritize to the main and gateway RTD stop, building scale could be town homes to
[18:30] multi-family, up to three stories, and then parking would be surface anger.
[18:37] Spirium Marketplace, 21 parcels, almost 90 acres, existing land uses business, the 2012
[18:46] Comprehensive Plan, Envision, Retail Services that help me the local and regional needs,
[18:54] high-density residential, may be considered where transit access and changing market conditions
[18:59] may present targeted infill or redevelopment opportunities.
[19:04] community feedback was for mixed use housing. I will say, I think this area got the most
[19:12] support for higher density housing from the community, retail and commercial, and then
[19:18] again, neither scenario or no development. Recommendation for the marketplace, primarily
[19:25] Burslor commercial and
[20:00] And residential above, with medium to high density residential. Supporting could be additional stand-alone
[20:08] commercial, understanding that this area is pretty overparked as of right now.
[20:16] Built form would be a grid, media, the RTD park and ride, multi-family building scale, looking
[20:24] at 25 to 35 dwelling units per acre.
[20:27] And then really a mix of structured and American ride
[20:31] is utilized and looked to a structured parking model
[20:35] if housing was introduced.
[20:38] Go ahead.
[20:40] I was just going to say, I'm surprised
[20:42] it doesn't say affordable housing.
[20:44] I mean, are we going to target saying
[20:47] because it's connected to RTD?
[20:48] I think it seems like a good spot
[20:51] for a affordable housing?
[20:54] I think we'll talk about the need for affordable housing
[20:57] in the housing chapter.
[20:59] We didn't call out affordable housing specifically in any of these
[21:03] land use recommendations.
[21:07] We do have the inclusionary housing ordinance that requires a certain
[21:12] percent of affordable housing no matter where residential
[21:15] development happens.
[21:17] So, and conceivable that affordable housing alone would go in one of these spots, but I don't
[21:26] specifically for this location.
[21:29] But I don't ask that question.
[21:33] We asked about the more about what it would look and feel like, unless about should affordable housing
[21:42] on another site, but I think that when you go to the housing section, it'll talk about
[21:49] where affordable housing proximity to what makes sense for affordable housing, and then
[21:56] you can parse together where that makes sense when it comes to residential uses.
[22:05] Presurably any housing development requirement for, is it 12 or 15% or affordable, anyways?
[22:14] So, asking for it to be all affordable, it's going to be there by definition.
[22:20] Yeah, I think that, I mean, we have the senior living all affordable housing.
[22:25] I would think that something similar could, especially since I think it's hard to get affordable housing into our more single family lots.
[22:40] I read through the plan last night as a shared email.
[22:46] How I interpreted us using the plan is seeing how the opportunity areas are addressed this way.
[22:53] And then when you get into the goals, priorities and actions, it actually talks about creating
[22:58] affordable housing opportunities within the things that we're overseeing in the future
[23:04] development.
[23:04] So it's almost saying, this is how the town sees this visually aesthetically design-wise
[23:11] and now we get to take the inner units of that and figure out how we make it sustainable
[23:16] for the town.
[23:17] So I hear what you're saying, but I almost think that the full 276 pages kind of helps
[23:23] you add A and B together to create C, just I had the same thought and that's kind of how I almost
[23:30] read it, just sharing.
[23:34] A practical question which is, how high does a building that's 25 to 35 dwelling units per
[23:40] acre have to be?
[23:42] It depends on the size of the parcel.
[23:45] Oh yes, but I mean, if you want to put 25 dwelling units on an acre, is that a three-story
[23:52] building or a full story building, it's probably more than a one story building.
[23:56] Yes.
[23:58] Uh, yeah.
[23:59] I would probably need to do some calculations and get back to you on that.
[24:04] Sorry.
[24:05] I didn't hear that.
[24:06] Oh, I just said I'd probably probably need to follow up with you on that and do some base
[24:11] level calculations.
[24:13] Just off the top of my head, structural engineer.
[24:16] Light framing only goes for stories.
[24:19] So typically, they'll either cap it at four stories
[24:23] because it gets much more expensive if you go out of light framing
[24:28] and then sometimes they'll...
[25:00] Public concrete podium at the bottom and then four stories on top. So I would think five stories would be, if it's mixed use of four stories, if it was.
[25:10] I think particularly in the marketplace, that's an area that ought to be, that's an issue. I mean, I think I haven't read the 272 pages yet, but I think one of the things that we ought to address in the strategic, in the comprehensive plan is what kind of height buildings we are going to permit there,
[25:29] because it's already, I mean, the existing FDP or PD1 of them has a height limit in it,
[25:37] which I think is 42 feet, actually. And that was when that was implemented back in 2001 or
[25:43] whatever they were doing, the market plan. That was designed to preserve views. And was one of
[25:50] the trade-offs that was made at the time. So I mean, after that, there was also quite a lot of work
[25:58] on the north, on this area, on the northwest development plan, which you will not, at least
[26:06] so far, haven't referred to, and some of that I think ought to be integrated into this.
[26:12] I mean, I think one of the things here is, if the goal is to, if one of the goals is to give developers
[26:20] As some idea of what we would like to see here, then I think we have to say things like,
[26:28] okay, we're going to allow 200 units here, or we're going to allow 600 units here.
[26:34] Because what happened, I think in 2020 is, we got two proposals at the same time.
[26:40] We got one from Boulder County Housing Authority for about 240 units, and another from the company called Confluent for 400 units.
[26:49] and they came in at the same time.
[26:52] I mean, this was just a start of a fire.
[26:56] So that right, it must be just a start of a fire.
[26:59] I don't think there was any enthusiasm for building 640 units
[27:03] on this site, but at least you say something about that up front.
[27:07] The time you have to address it is when the development proposal
[27:10] comes through.
[27:12] And I would much rather have some guidelines in place first
[27:15] so that we can point it and say,
[27:17] know, we thought about that in the comprehensive plan, you know, we're happy to have 200,
[27:22] we're happy to have 300, we're happy to have 400.
[27:24] Whatever the number is, just some idea of what you can build there because if you took all
[27:30] that parking area and turned it into a apartment buildings, that'd be a huge number there.
[27:37] Well, I do think that there would still need to be appropriate parking for the existing commercial
[27:42] uses, would it be helpful if we included up to blank story? Is that where the push point is
[27:51] or is it more of a carrying capacity? I think there will be two push points from people who live
[27:57] certainly from people who live in the area, because one will be the height and the other will be
[28:04] the number of units. Sure. So I think to elaborate on all this, I also came away that these
[28:12] particular pages would be a great spot to talk about what we think the preferred housing
[28:17] should be there.
[28:19] You know, I know also the other category, senior, missing middle.
[28:22] I mean, I think we really have to think that through a little bit if we're going to try to
[28:26] achieve all those goals.
[28:29] And it's like this one, for instance, this could even probably put senior housing there
[28:34] as well.
[28:35] But just as maybe under primary, listen, we think is the perhaps best solution for that area.
[28:43] And, and we could perhaps call this planning commission, thoughts or opinions.
[28:47] We've got the public's feedback in there.
[28:50] We could put a category in there for what, how the planning commission sees it kind of in the
[28:55] priority.
[28:55] Yeah, it gives, it would help, I think, as the council reviews this, but also the public
[29:00] reviewing this.
[29:01] They're probably not going to read the whole thing, but these are really nice summary pages
[29:04] that we can, you know, you can perhaps even put these in executive summary, be a long
[29:09] executive summary, but these are kind of the me to the compound in my view.
[29:13] So I think the big picture detail we could put in here, I think it would be just make it more valuable.
[29:21] Yep. Okay.
[29:31] Moving on to original town, just north of where we are, eight parcels,
[29:36] two and a half acres. It is currently vacant and commercial.
[29:39] 2012 envisioned a mix of medium density residential and office or a potential for community oriented uses.
[29:49] What we heard from the community was preference for housing in the form of town homes, small lot single family or medium density residential.
[30:00] Make use commercial office or neither scenario and no development recommended primary land use here would be mixed use with kind of a preference for neighborhood scale commercial with residential above, whether that be above like vertical mixed use or more of a horizontal mixed use.
[30:28] Prioritizing the commercial uses along the Kazzlin, supporting uses could be office,
[30:34] understanding that that's a hard market right now. Block pattern would be grid to
[30:42] connect to this greater neighborhood, small to small to medium personal size with three
[30:52] transit stops within a quarter mile, building scale, again, vertical or horizontal mixed use
[30:59] kind of town homes to multi-family for that residential up to three stories and then parking could look like
[31:07] surface tuck under or garages.
[31:12] Does the town own any of that space today? I'm thinking primarily
[31:18] of just the lots that are immediately opposite town hall.
[31:23] Yes, we own everything south of the
[31:26] Philip 66 on the, on that block side. North, North of Cole Creek and East of first.
[31:39] So yep, that whole air, that whole thing, southern portion is owned by the town.
[31:45] So basically it's up to the town to decide what it wants to do there.
[31:55] I think it might, I mean, I don't know how many people actually know that that is owned by the town,
[32:01] but I think it might be worth pointing that out because it clearly gives the town more flexibility in what it can do.
[32:12] Maybe we want to put civic on here if the town owns it.
[32:16] I think office is what that was, I think office fits into civic uses within that, because there's another, once we get to town 15, that's another consideration, is for town offices, right, like an expansion of town offices or what, what was, what did you envision for civic?
[32:41] I mean that would mean if we wanted to put a library there or we could put it.
[32:44] Yeah.
[32:45] Anything.
[32:47] I'm not saying we should build a library there.
[32:49] I'm just saying that it might not be offices, but I don't think we would want like
[32:55] a maintenance facility there either, so Civic sounds more building it.
[33:01] Well, I mean, it occurs to me that the town staff is spread out all over town.
[33:07] That's the perfect area to try to make an enlarged town hall for offices.
[33:14] Well, anyway, down around in here, I know it was kind of mentioned for town 15, maybe there, but I think this seems to be the next part.
[33:22] More concentrated, if it's going to be done.
[33:27] And I actually kind of go along.
[33:29] I think these are some issues, maybe we should perhaps raise and throw out in there for discussion.
[33:35] I mean,
[33:41] overall, I think the more direction you can give to this, the better from the point
[33:51] of view of the plant because it will help everybody to understand what the limits are, whereas
[33:59] if it just says things like mixed use, neighborhood, commercial, I mean, the kind of descriptions
[34:05] that you have out there at the moment, which are sort of fine for an executive summary,
[34:11] don't really give too much guidance about what we'd like to see there.
[34:16] I don't know how it's difficult to do, but I think the more guidance we can provide about the
[34:21] plan will be, actually.
[34:27] I really like the pictures though.
[34:32] Yeah, I think they'll go ahead.
[34:35] Oh, just one comment.
[34:36] Anne is trying to, I gave her the log-in.
[34:40] She was having trouble getting it.
[34:41] So she's listening on YouTube.
[34:43] Oh, I don't know if there she is.
[34:45] We just got out.
[34:46] We just got out.
[34:47] Oh, come on.
[34:48] Very good.
[34:49] Very good.
[34:54] Yeah.
[34:54] I would say, at this stage, the most...
[35:00] We're attempting to provide direction while providing a level and changing conditions and which developers
[35:11] are ready to purchase at what time so that it's almost immediately outdated and you feel like you
[35:17] have to amend it constantly or revisit it again at a sooner date. That said, I do think there's
[35:26] a lot more detail in the Witten document for each of these opportunity areas.
[35:32] So we can continue to refine that and provide more detail as the adoption process continues.
[35:44] Over to you.
[35:45] Okay.
[35:47] Town 15, everyone's favorite parcel.
[35:51] 15 acres.
[35:52] The 2012 Comprehensive Plan Envisioned Commercial and Office or Community Oriented
[35:59] uses, preferred land uses from the community are parks and open space, recreation or community
[36:08] amenities, town offices housing in the form of single family to town homes and neither
[36:15] scenario or no development.
[36:19] Recommendation here is the primary land use B recreation with supporting land uses potentially
[36:26] being housing open space, park space, or offices, prioritize for, for town office space.
[36:35] Block pattern would be a modified grid, which is what the parcel shape really supports.
[36:43] Parts will size, I'll clarify here, the idea would be a large parcel size for those recreation
[36:48] uses, but likely a much smaller size for any potential residential use.
[36:54] building scale for recreation facility up to two stories and then for residential would be from
[37:04] single family up to town homes between five to 15 dwelling units per acre. Not really any
[37:11] any transit connections present and then parking could look like surface parking or attached
[37:18] scratches.
[37:25] I have a feeling that enough has been said about town 15 over the last few months. Keep us going.
[37:31] Okay. All right. Sounds good.
[37:35] Zahari is?
[37:36] I mean, if you're ever coming to talk to me.
[37:39] Actually, I'm wondering what I was thinking is once Norris finished me, we go back and go through
[37:44] each of the opportunity areas and see what kind of thoughts we have.
[37:48] Just yeah, I think you'd be a good idea to put a category there.
[37:51] Sure.
[37:51] for planning commission feedback or thoughts.
[37:56] That sounds like a good idea.
[37:58] It's a good idea.
[37:59] All right.
[38:00] We'll see that.
[38:02] The area says one parcel, just over 23 acres.
[38:05] It is vacant.
[38:07] The 2012 comprehensive plan saw a mix of commercial office
[38:11] and moderate intensity residential,
[38:13] like patio homes and senior housing.
[38:17] A portion could be considered for open space.
[38:19] I will caveat that in 2012, I think the interchange at 88th and 36th was still a consideration.
[38:27] And so moving forward, we really don't see commercial or office being viable on this site.
[38:35] So, preferred land use is from the community where parks in open space, housing from low to medium density,
[38:42] commercial mixed use, or neither scenario nor development, recommendations for the primary
[38:49] used to be medium density residential, with supporting some lower density curvilinear block
[38:56] pattern, which is really the only option for the site, parcel size would be kind of small
[39:02] to medium, building scale from town home to multi family between 15 and 20 dwelling units per acre,
[39:11] and then making sure there's just good multi-modal connections to the rock creek and 88s,
[39:19] transit stop, parking could be surface and then attached to garages for a town home development.
[39:30] I think you should change out that multifamily residential picture.
[39:34] I don't think you should use one that's five stories I.
[39:37] Okay.
[39:38] Sorry what did you say?
[39:39] Five stories on that shirt below.
[39:43] I don't think anyone's going to show the people with a view right now.
[39:46] I'm not going to appreciate that picture.
[39:50] That's...
[39:51] I think, I mean, in the time...
[40:00] We have received a statement on the plan and commission. There have been three different
[40:06] development proposals for residential on that property, all of which have been turned down by the town,
[40:16] which brings me to a question, but really for a nay. Would the town consider resounding this,
[40:21] when else a development proposal, or would it just leave it the same?
[40:24] Well we won't reason it. The future developer will have to reason it. Part of why it's been
[40:40] harder to develop is because of the recommended uses from the previous comprehensive
[40:45] plan and I don't know the the desires of Council to go against that plan as well as community
[41:02] feedback related to the proposed developments that we had during the times that we had them.
[41:12] I also think that as a part of this comprehensive plan update in the engagement that we've been
[41:17] doing. It's been really important to discuss trade-offs with the community, so understanding
[41:25] where we're not going to get commercial on all of these properties. We're also not going
[41:30] to get no development on all of these properties, but the balance is what's really important
[41:34] for the fiscal sustainability of the town's future and for complete neighborhoods and for places
[41:42] where people do want to continue to live and work and play and so I think whereas before there
[41:49] might have been strong opposition to residential on this property, I think what I've heard
[41:55] throughout the process is that there's people are much more open to it, particularly considering
[42:00] that it's truly surrounded by that type of use and then making sure that we're accounting for
[42:07] or the drainage pond and wildlife corridors and things like that.
[42:18] Last one, Resilute.
[42:20] Five parcels, under six acres, it is vacant.
[42:25] The 2012 Comprehensive Plan saw commercial office
[42:29] or retail uses, including a hotel here.
[42:34] Community preferred hotel retail commercial housing
[42:38] from medium to high density, parks in open space, and neither scenario, no development.
[42:47] The recommendation here is for primary land use mixed use with hotel and commercial, with
[42:55] supporting medium to high density residential, modified grid block pattern, medium to large
[43:04] parcel size. It does have close proximity to several transit stops within a quarter mile
[43:12] building scale up to six stories and then a mix of surface and structured parking.
[43:20] We do think that this is if you're going to get a hotel in superior or this is the spot.
[43:28] just based on access and none of the other sites really lend themselves to well to hotel uses
[43:39] and or they've attempted that in the past and gotten no bites from hotel carriers.
[43:49] And we've had concept plans for that over the years.
[43:54] I mean, I've got how long ago it was, but there was a concept plan that was going to build a hotel
[43:59] with residential and retail part of it,
[44:02] but I think it went away and never came back, isn't it?
[44:05] Yeah, we've had several renditions of concept plans that included a hotel
[44:14] of some sort with residential,
[44:19] which is kind of what residents have said
[44:23] that they would like to see here.
[44:25] And the economic development manager agrees that it's a good site for it if we could make it happen.
[44:37] I don't know.
[44:40] But we'll see what happens.
[44:43] In your opinion, is it actually a good site for a hotel?
[44:46] I mean, it's right on the corner of Colson and West Plata Island or whatever the street there is that comes into the mall.
[44:54] Yeah, I do think it could work for a hotel. I think hotels these days are
[45:00] Being really strategic about where they locate and there is a concentration closer to the Flatiron's
[45:08] area area that you might just need the right, who doesn't have a presence here yet, and sees
[45:14] the benefit of the future development in Louisville and these things like that.
[45:20] These uses would also require a zoning change for this parcel as well.
[45:28] So any development will have to change the zoning.
[45:34] Yes.
[45:39] As I mentioned earlier, there is an implementation.
[45:43] So action items which were not included in the 2012 comprehensive plan are now included.
[45:49] And they are assigned a priority level.
[45:51] those are critical vital and desirable, a time frame on going, which is as needed, or it
[45:58] is just the nature of the action is ongoing. Short term is zero to three years, medium term
[46:04] three to five, and then long term is over five years. And then potential partners, they have,
[46:12] they all have their own acronyms in the plan with a kind of a cheat sheet for those, and
[46:20] disabled or county open space or C. dot. So an example just to kind of show you the framework
[46:26] is an action would be using projects.
[46:31] It's a critical priority level medium term time frame
[46:36] and then partners could be the housing authority or CHAPA.
[46:44] Talking about next steps so the staff
[46:47] draft review period is from today through January 2nd. We'll be online probably around that January 15th date.
[46:59] Potentially if we're going to stick with this schedule, come back to you all on January 20th.
[47:04] For a recommendation to town council and then we would have an updated town council on February 9th with potential adoption in later February.
[47:16] So I'll stop there and if we have comments on the next steps, we can talk about those and then we can cycle back through opportunity areas.
[47:26] I've got a couple questions from just what was said just a second ago.
[47:35] I don't know if I thought that Renee said that the last property that was not aligned with how it's zoned right now.
[47:42] And that seems like disjointed to me.
[47:46] If we're going to propose a different use for the property,
[47:51] are we going to also propose that we change the zoning?
[47:54] So it's easier for someone to do that.
[47:57] Instead of making them come in and request to have the zoning change,
[48:01] why wouldn't we change the zoning in advance
[48:04] if we think that's the right use of the property?
[48:07] The town doesn't initiate zoning changes.
[48:11] So, as a loop parcel is zoned commercial use right now.
[48:16] It's part of the raw creek plant development, and its zoning is a regional activity center.
[48:26] So, the uses that are permitted by right include mostly commercial uses.
[48:33] The uses that are recommended as part of this comprehensive plan include uses that are allowed
[48:41] by right there as well as additional uses.
[48:46] And then with a development, the developer will come and if they're not building commercial
[48:55] in accordance with the RAC, they would rezone the property to something else.
[49:00] That meets the needs of the development that they're proposing at the time.
[49:05] Okay, so we don't think this is a debtor.
[49:08] We don't, again, I don't know the development committee.
[49:10] This doesn't stop someone because it's not zone correctly telling it in the plan in our comprehensive plan.
[49:17] Tell them that we'd like them to do this, so that kind of gives them that that thought processor.
[49:22] The zoning of parcels isn't necessarily considered as part of the comprehensive planning process.
[49:31] Lots of these properties that are in opportunity areas are owned for other uses other than what.
[50:00] We're recommending as part of the comprehensive plan update, and part of the reason why they are still
[50:07] undeveloped. Sometimes, in some of the circumstances, is because of the way they are currently
[50:12] zoned, the plan recommended uses. So, for the areas like we were just talking about is also
[50:20] zone, Regional Activity Center, similar, it's a herrious and resolute, both have the same
[50:29] RAC zoning and their preferred uses in the comprehensive plan.
[50:40] Talk about uses that may or may not work on those properties today, and so the purpose of
[50:47] the comprehensive plan, future land use map, is not to look at how there's
[50:52] about how they potentially could be developed.
[50:56] Okay.
[50:57] Okay.
[50:57] So I should ignore the zoning basis.
[50:58] Ignore the zoning, yes.
[51:00] Okay.
[51:01] Got it.
[51:02] I do have questions about the beginning of the report.
[51:04] But I'll wait till we're done here.
[51:07] So that's those.
[51:11] So back on the schedule here.
[51:13] So basically, the January 20th planning commission meeting will be the best opportunity
[51:18] for the public to kind of comment on the complaint with the draft complaint.
[51:23] The public draft is going to be released for public comment in mid January, so right now you have the draft plan and staff has the draft plan.
[51:36] We haven't provided comments on the draft plan and our comments are going to be due that first week of January and then they'll be working really hard and really fast to revise the drafts in time to get it out for public review and public comment.
[51:55] And advance, I'm not sure we'll probably have the Planning Commission recommendation draft match pretty closely to that public draft that's out in mid January for feedback, and then we'll take all of the comments from the public draft that is available for feedback online and the one we bring to the Planning Commission to create.
[52:23] a final draft that we bring to the council in February if that makes sense.
[52:28] So you were only giving the public maybe a month to comment?
[52:34] Yes.
[52:37] They'll have a couple.
[52:39] They'll have like two to three weeks, two weeks in January.
[52:45] And then that's before.
[52:48] But Council will, during Council hearings, they can continue to, yes, exactly, so they'll have a chance to make comments in advance of Council hearings that we can incorporate into the Council final draft.
[53:02] And then they'll have continued opportunities to comment as we go through the council process.
[53:12] I mean, so I'm just sorry for clarification. The public will see this in mid-January.
[53:21] They can comment, we can make a recommendation on the 20th. They can keep commenting.
[53:28] At what point can they do they actually have to stop commenting every the 9th?
[53:35] No, that's, that's, I mean that's a public hearing on the 9th.
[53:40] So it's this is where we are now and we will report on what we've heard up until the
[53:46] ninth to town council and then after that I think we could I mean we can we haven't discussed
[53:53] like at the end of the public comment period and when at that point we close it out I think
[54:00] that's why it says late February for an actual adoption so that we can make sure that we hear
[54:06] from Town Council before we set that date,
[54:09] and we make sure that we've given the public enough time
[54:13] and that they feel comfortable with moving forward
[54:15] with the plan.
[54:18] Yes, that's not three public meetings to comment on it.
[54:22] So, I've got a little over a month, that's not too bad.
[54:26] The three public meetings seems pretty good.
[54:29] And how are you guys radicalized to the public
[54:32] that it's actually out there for them to look at?
[54:36] It'll be on shapes of hair year, and then we'll send out the notices both in the January
[54:47] Sentinel is at the monthly one
[54:50] The newsletters all all of the ways that we have
[55:10] We've had some discussions with Nora and her team on what the common weather is going to be open ended, or we'll ask, you know, for feedback on chapter by chapter, or how we want to solicit feedback,
[55:29] but it'll all be through the shape superior web page.
[55:36] Does this influence the newspapers, the superior Sentinel?
[55:41] Yes.
[55:42] Does that come out during that period?
[55:45] Is it the Sentinel, the monthly one?
[55:49] Yeah, that's the monthly deal.
[55:53] So that will have a notice in there.
[55:58] What's the people one called?
[56:01] Oh, hello, superior, and it comes out only three.
[56:05] Quarterly?
[56:08] That's quarterly.
[56:08] Like, I must admit, it's an age-related factor.
[56:11] I'm better at looking at things on paper,
[56:13] but looking at things online.
[56:16] Hello, I think hello, superior supposed to come out
[56:18] at the end of the year, so we might be able to get it in there.
[56:21] In the Hello Superior, for the end of the year, we have, like,
[56:25] We had, look at Shapes Superior for details when you can review the draft comprehensive plan
[56:36] because we weren't sure exactly when it was going to be available, but we do have a blurb
[56:42] in there telling people that the draft is coming. It may be here. You should go to Shapes Superior
[56:50] and look to see when the comment period is.
[56:57] Okay.
[56:58] I will say too that we've been collecting
[57:02] contact information for everybody that's been involved
[57:04] in the process so far and therefore we'll send out
[57:09] what's called a newsletter.
[57:11] It's just through the shape superior platform,
[57:14] but it sends an email to everybody that's signed up for updates
[57:18] that the draft plan is available and here's how you can
[57:21] participate, these are the public meetings, you can participate online and all of that.
[57:27] And I think at one point Renee said you'd be visiting the other town committees with chapters
[57:34] that have impacted them, would you have been getting, did you do that, if you've got comments
[57:38] back from that?
[57:39] We did that not with the actual draft plan draft chapters, but with the recommendations and
[57:47] actions for the those chapters.
[57:51] Okay.
[57:54] Did you get a lot of comments?
[57:57] Yes.
[58:02] Okay.
[58:03] What was it that you were...
[58:05] I thought it'd be good to go back to the opportunity areas
[58:08] and maybe just chat about those in a little bit more detail.
[58:11] Sure.
[58:11] I had some comments, but then really I thought it'd be best to hear in the world.
[58:15] Make the whole presentation.
[58:17] Do we want to go with this kind of recommendations for each one, because we have the background community input
[58:26] and then this is kind of the meat of what the plan is recommending, if we want to do that page.
[58:34] For this one, this is sort of like for here, if this is community feedback, maybe on the same page, you could be feedback,
[58:41] You have one part as community one part's planning commission. Oh, I see something like that
[58:46] It's just distinguishing
[58:48] Continue to capture the community feedback, but you know the planning commission perhaps use things from a different vantage point might have different thoughts or comments sure
[58:57] I'm sure we will actually
[58:59] Yeah, is somebody taking notes. I am suing. I'm taking note. Okay, great
[59:07] And it's recorded so we go back and listen also
[59:12] I mean, we are actually thinking within the report.
[59:16] It would be on its phones separately.
[59:18] It was covered in the most coming from, well, I mean, it is two sources of feedback.
[59:23] So if there's different ideas or thoughts, like, for instance, here, I would say, you know,
[59:30] this could be an area for, you know, west of Costco could be a multi-storey building that
[59:36] it could be for affordable housing or senior housing.
[59:40] You know, it's closed to RTD.
[59:45] I don't know, I don't, I think, I just kind of general thought.
[59:48] Nora, how do you, sorry.
[59:50] I'm thinking about what you're asking.
[59:53] And what I'm asking, the way I'm thinking.
[59:55] I mean, we're, let's see, affordable housing.
[59:57] We're like these spots for it to get.
[1:00:00] On you, you're like, oh, sorry, thanks, Steve. Back to where are the most likely spots for affordable housing to go? And it's probably close to RTD. So this is one of the opportunity areas. We have this, we have the marketplace, and we have the old the RTD site. Perhaps the, well, Shucks, the resolute property, possibly, but at least these three. So it seems like we should, if we all agree, or we probably want to all agree, but I'd say there'd be something to throw out there.
[1:00:30] consideration.
[1:00:33] Do you normally include affordable housing as a land use in
[1:00:39] comprehensive plans or do you talk about it as part of the housing chapter and
[1:00:44] then we relate that I don't I mean I don't know best practices for comprehensive
[1:00:48] plan. We've done both so a strategy that we could consider here and it sounds like
[1:00:55] That's an interest of the commission is that we, it's not necessarily in a signed land use.
[1:01:02] It's an identified opportunity of these are, these are priority sites for affordable housing, right?
[1:01:10] Because we're already, we're already recommending medium to multi-family residential on the site.
[1:01:17] So if we're, you know, affordable housing would be allowed in that.
[1:01:21] But if we're saying, this, the town's priority for affordable housing is on these
[1:01:27] excellent of number of sites based on their proximity to transit, the affordability, and
[1:01:34] that there's so many factors that go into that, like, is a developer going to be able to
[1:01:38] afford the land to develop it as affordable housing and can you get the density and is it
[1:01:43] supported by the community? And so I think that's definitely something that we can
[1:01:49] explore and I agree with you about the sites that you've identified.
[1:01:54] And along those options, like we've talked about the housing challenges, like the missing
[1:01:59] middle, senior housing. I mean, the same thing, this is kind of a good spot for that.
[1:02:05] That's
[1:02:05] that's really prime property. It's out near the open space. It's large enough to put a number
[1:02:10] of single family homes there. And the other thing, I'm mentioning all this is, of course,
[1:02:16] we've had a proposal, one developer, one to put apartments there.
[1:02:21] So I don't know, that raises the question, how many apartments should we have
[1:02:26] in superior?
[1:02:27] We've got a whole bunch coming on line down town.
[1:02:31] And again, Marketplace, RTD, we're probably also spending things built there.
[1:02:36] Those will also be apartments.
[1:02:38] So kind of like, OK, well, do we need more apartments here?
[1:02:41] We're taking away from basically single family, but
[1:02:46] for sale housing, which we've identified as a need for
[1:02:50] a superior in particular, as low as a lowest cost is possible,
[1:02:57] which will be a big challenge.
[1:03:00] May I ask, so the document itself, it does include a lot of those things,
[1:03:05] but they're in separate pieces, and I want this document to be evergreen,
[1:03:10] and took us two years to build it, and we're supposed to do it every 10 years,
[1:03:13] and 12 years since Veli did the last one,
[1:03:16] Does it make sense to have the document itself and then have the commission's position statements based on the document?
[1:03:23] And I don't mean to make another document, but that's how commissions often do like, you know,
[1:03:28] Well, they'll say, hey, there's the guiding document, and then this is our position on it, seeing kind of the things as they lay. Is that kind of what you're seeing in this?
[1:03:35] Well, that occurred to me. Another way to do this would be if we had a separate document.
[1:03:40] Here's here's the planning commissions view of this or thoughts and recommendations or why they supported something
[1:03:46] They're not supported something kind of tackling each of the opportunity areas that could be a separate document that of course
[1:03:52] We're nay would volunteer to draft
[1:03:55] No, I don't know the answer, but I mean, I think some place we should capture as David was saying before a little bit more detail
[1:04:02] Dropped down a little bit is what we think the sites might be
[1:04:06] That's the suited for it, and again, now the other thing in all this is we might think these are good ideas, but what's the market good to say?
[1:04:14] Right, and maybe another opportunity to avoid future amendments to the map would be to identify the highest priority properties for affordable housing in those strategies and actions in the in the actual
[1:04:32] land use section of the plan. So we have obviously goals and strategies and actions about
[1:04:38] creating diversity of housing and affordability and all of that. And so we could just
[1:04:43] tack on to one of our strategies that says provide the town should incentivize affordable housing
[1:04:51] particularly on x, y, and z sites. I don't think we were thinking about this. I'm doubtful about
[1:04:59] having...
[1:05:00] In a separate planning commission, because the comprehensive plan is supposed to be a planning commission plan, actually. So, to write a planning commission document, to write a comprehensive plan document, and then say the planning commission thinks something different.
[1:05:16] Is in some sense contradictory, because it's actually our plan.
[1:05:23] I think if you wanted to go, I think it was the way, if you wanted to say, okay, this is the primary use here as medium density to multi-family residential, and say that's what we're expecting a developer to provide and then say, as a sort of addition to that, we think that this would be a very useful because of its location.
[1:05:50] close to an RTD station, this would be a very good location for affordable housing or senior housing
[1:05:59] in particular. I think something like that, but I don't think you can lock the developer,
[1:06:05] I mean if it's a developer. Oh no, now we've already got a developer proposal on this site, actually.
[1:06:12] I don't think you can try and lock the developer, I guess we could. Well I think I'm not
[1:06:18] So I favor trying to lock developers into particular kinds of development through the comprehensive platform.
[1:06:26] Well, certainly the one thing there that kind of cries out for me is rental units versus for sale units.
[1:06:33] I mean, what's best for the town?
[1:06:37] And if for some reason we decide to, we've got enough apartments in any more, then when we want to make a recommendation for for sale housing, not apartments.
[1:06:48] Again, who knows what'll happen if I mean, no, I don't think I want to personally, I want to be in the business of making that decision.
[1:06:56] The market will dictate a lot of that.
[1:06:58] That's a market decision.
[1:07:00] Yeah, but I mean, for sale units would fit into this, right?
[1:07:04] If we're talking medium density, you could be talking about town homes, so that's not written out.
[1:07:09] the purpose of being vague in a sense, but providing direction, but not
[1:07:19] hamstringing anyone into anything in particular is too allow the market to adjust in
[1:07:26] react and then, but still providing what the town thinks is best, what makes sense for the parcel
[1:07:34] where it's situated, and how it's configured, and then explaining what the community has
[1:07:41] desired.
[1:07:42] That's really...
[1:07:42] I'm thinking steering, and again, we're just making a recommendation, and it's really
[1:07:49] town council, and then future developers, but if we can kind of steer things of a certain
[1:07:53] direction, that we think's the best for the town, I think we should try to do that.
[1:08:01] I'd like to jump in here.
[1:08:03] So, Nora, I actually like your idea, your suggestion of calling out
[1:08:08] these properties would be appropriate
[1:08:12] or affordable housing, or senior housing,
[1:08:16] or missing middle, that kind of stuff.
[1:08:19] And I really think resolute,
[1:08:22] while it would be lovely to have a hotel,
[1:08:25] and I'm not saying I would turn that down,
[1:08:27] but if we don't, but that would actually be a great location,
[1:08:32] I think, for affordable housing.
[1:08:34] Because it is on transportation.
[1:08:38] It is close to retail.
[1:08:42] It's close to other residential.
[1:08:46] It checks a lot of boxes.
[1:08:49] And I don't think we'd get a lot of pushback
[1:08:52] from residents about putting affordable housing
[1:08:57] on that, on that parcel.
[1:09:08] I guess I think if a developer comes forward with a plan to do that, we need to make sure
[1:09:17] that the comprehensive plan isn't hindrance in terms of what it's allowed, what's allowed
[1:09:24] to be built by.
[1:09:27] And I don't think it is.
[1:09:29] I mean, we're talking about a six acre, five parcels and six acres.
[1:09:34] So we're not saying the entire thing needs to be a hotel or commercial or residential, right?
[1:09:41] Like it's I think the primary use is mixed use and that could look like hotel and commercial
[1:09:48] and maybe something that we can add in here is commercial and residential as a part of that mixed use idea.
[1:09:55] I think the towns.
[1:10:00] Economic development goals really want a hotel in the community. And so this was the one that made
[1:10:09] the most sense. So we didn't want to we wanted to highlight it as as an opportunity for a hotel
[1:10:15] use, but I think I think this could be an opportunity for affordable housing. I agree.
[1:10:23] Could we potentially accomplish? I'm looking at page 124 housing goal to support and promote local
[1:10:29] regional affordable housing efforts. Could we simply just say under age 2.1, which is support
[1:10:34] existing and create new partnerships to address affordable housing needs or even 2.2, which
[1:10:39] is create an incentive program in parent with the 2020 inclusionary housing ordinance to promote
[1:10:43] the creation of affordable housing, put just a bullet point to on the seven opportunity areas
[1:10:49] addressed in the plan, consider affordable housing for each area as it like. I wanted to be as
[1:10:57] but I wanted to be applied to all of the opportunity areas if it's a main goal of the town.
[1:11:02] You know, is it just makes sense to put a bullet point under there?
[1:11:05] Does that achieve our same objective?
[1:11:08] Without scaring away developers?
[1:11:12] I think that we can call out the sites where it makes the most sense.
[1:11:16] Maybe not the ones further from transit or amenities and where we as planners see affordable housing
[1:11:25] that benefits the community and I think calling out to specific opportunity areas where it makes
[1:11:31] sense, I agree, I think that's good strategy.
[1:11:36] Like for instance, it's a hurry. It doesn't seem like a great spot for affordable housing
[1:11:40] because it's not near anything in terms of transportation. And town 15's kind of not
[1:11:46] since the town owns it. It's good from an economic standpoint because the town could subsidize it,
[1:11:51] but it's not really that close to anything. But because of the bullet point, there could be
[1:11:55] It could be at least a firmer consideration as we are either figuring out what happens to that a lot in a couple of years
[1:12:01] And we finally get budget and we're done with the pools or
[1:12:05] You know, considering I might come in town
[1:12:09] If we went back to the 76th street one a lot my concern here again would be try to solve I mean we're saying
[1:12:19] medium density to multi-family residential and
[1:12:22] I think this is another area like the marketplace where trying to come up with some idea of how many units would be here would be helpful for the town because the current concept plan has 376 units.
[1:12:45] It's, I mean, personally when I looked at it, I thought that's overwhelming, I mean, there's
[1:12:50] apartment, there's three story apartments and four story apartments, I mean, it's either
[1:12:56] buildings, roads or parking spaces, there are no, there are no small parks, there's no open
[1:13:02] areas in there.
[1:13:04] I mean, it's not something that I think would be, it's not something that I think would
[1:13:13] an attractive addition to the town. I mean, it's right next to, um, I'm drawing a black,
[1:13:22] what's the development down here?
[1:13:25] Garth, Garth, do you mean your Sagamore?
[1:13:27] Sagamore, it's right next to Sagamore, and Sagamore is also a very built, quite a built-up
[1:13:32] area, although a single family house, but it has things like pocket parks in it, so there are actually open spaces
[1:13:39] inside Sagamore, the benefit of the residents and somebody's going to come up with a medium
[1:13:48] density or multi, I mean medium density, to melt melt, I'm family residential. I personally
[1:13:57] think it would be helpful to have some guidelines as to what that actually means in terms
[1:14:03] numbers of units or numbers of units per acre,
[1:14:08] or anything that provides, because the
[1:14:14] developers some idea of what we're expecting before they come to us rather than after.
[1:14:21] I hear what you're saying. I think what we can provide at the Comprehensive Plan level is a range
[1:14:27] of dwelling units per acre. I think when it comes to open space and parks, that's going to come
[1:14:33] your development regulations, and so there are recommendations in the goals and strategies
[1:14:40] and actions about providing adequate or appropriate superior towns scale open space and park
[1:14:48] areas in new developments, but those would be a part of the development regulation.
[1:14:53] When we were doing the new downtown, there's a whole series of design guidelines for the new
[1:14:58] Ciao, Ciao, Ciao!
[1:15:00] How buildings have to look and what reforms the light is. It probably covers even open areas in the town and things like that.
[1:15:07] I mean, if we have something, I mean, can we incorporate something like that?
[1:15:13] About what we expect of elements to look like to be consistent with the rest of the towns guidelines.
[1:15:21] The comprehensive plan doesn't necessarily talk about that, but our code for development
[1:15:26] does to an extent.
[1:15:30] When we bring a PV to you, we often look at the comprehensive plan and other land use
[1:15:38] required like land uses in the town to make sure they are appropriate for their surroundings.
[1:15:44] There are sections of the municipal code that talk about adjacent uses and we don't have
[1:15:55] design guidelines in our code but to the extent that the code talks about required open
[1:16:03] spaces and then staff and planning commission and council all get an opportunity to look
[1:16:11] the proposal and determine whether or not those are sufficient in accordance with the code
[1:16:17] requirements. So the code just says it has to be x amount of open space and then you all get
[1:16:26] to determine whether that's appropriate for the site when they propose the development and what
[1:16:35] that open space should look like for each site individually.
[1:16:42] But that's not part of the comprehensive land.
[1:16:45] The comprehensive plan like Noris,
[1:16:47] that is kind of a bigger picture.
[1:16:50] And then in the parks and land use section,
[1:16:52] it talks about ensuring migration and habitat
[1:16:58] isn't disrupted with development
[1:17:00] and creating buffers and things like that.
[1:17:04] I mean, part part of my concern around this is that the developers for all, I mean, from very good commercial reasons.
[1:17:11] I usually try to get the maximum number of units that they can get into any given development.
[1:17:19] I mean, sometimes, I mean, that seems rather extreme.
[1:17:28] Well, that's also what keeps them cheap.
[1:17:30] We want affordable housing, we might need something that has less parks and, I mean, in an area that's not as nice and I mean, that's how we get things I don't want to like create substandard housing but at the same time like you have to make things not as nice to get
[1:17:55] If you go over and look at the senior housing in Lafayette, it's actually pretty nice because of the way it's being done.
[1:18:03] I mean, the casual, casual side and the huge, that's what I was doing.
[1:18:08] Okay, that's very nice.
[1:18:09] What's the one there's one?
[1:18:11] I'll see everyone.
[1:18:15] Anyway,
[1:18:18] there's another one, which is also, which has been a continuity developing site actually.
[1:18:23] They put out for the initial building and they go more, even though it's affordable housing.
[1:18:30] It's better, both of them were done by Boulder County Housing Authority.
[1:18:33] They actually, you can't tell that affordable housing just from looking at them at the outside.
[1:18:39] I think that's a goal to be aimed for, actually.
[1:18:44] Will it be corner? That's the other one.
[1:18:47] Okay, sorry. Sorry.
[1:18:48] Will it be corner as the other one in Lafayette?
[1:18:51] If you want to look at will it be corner?
[1:18:54] No, no, no.
[1:18:55] And Josephine comments is also, you know.
[1:18:58] Josephine comments is the one I was thinking of.
[1:19:02] Yeah, Lafayette has a number of affordable housing developments in different phases of development.
[1:19:10] I will say though the comprehensive plan provides direction and guidance.
[1:19:16] It's not build this building developer.
[1:19:20] or property owner, it's saying this is the guidance,
[1:19:25] the zoning is still what the zoning is right now.
[1:19:28] So it's not saying you can build the most stories,
[1:19:32] you can build the most number of units,
[1:19:35] a developer is still going to have to come to you
[1:19:37] when they want to develop their property.
[1:19:39] So it's not, this isn't the end of the process.
[1:19:41] I would say the majority of the opportunity
[1:19:45] is would require a rezoning.
[1:19:47] And so, there are opportunities in the future to shape what, how those properties develop.
[1:19:59] And this is,
[1:20:00] Really just land use and kind of built form guidance.
[1:20:05] But I guess just suggesting that we add in there, here's what we'd like, here's what we think will be a good idea for the town.
[1:20:11] What we'd like, but realizing it's just kind of a, it's a like, there's no requirement to do it that way.
[1:20:18] And it will be determined, as you say, when just they go through process and PD and zoning recommendations.
[1:20:24] So, but it's just kind of, again, thinking of steering things.
[1:20:28] Here's G, if you were to build this, it's, it's, you're probably not going to see much resistance.
[1:20:35] I think that's, that's kind of what this whole process has been, right?
[1:20:38] Because we've, we've gone through a couple of different scenarios on each of the opportunity areas
[1:20:43] and this is where after community input, after market study, after looking holistically at what the
[1:20:50] needs and what makes sense for each property and what we heard from the community.
[1:20:56] This is kind of the recommendation that the town staff and the consultants have come to.
[1:21:01] And so we're looking for you all to say,
[1:21:05] okay, we can support this or if we really need to revisit one of the sites we can do that.
[1:21:14] Before I forget, I keep on thinking the element hotel spot.
[1:21:20] Why is that not an opportunity area?
[1:21:26] Mostly because it's zoned for a hotel and we're trying to get a hotel to cover that spot.
[1:21:33] We weren't considering it as an opportunity area because we weren't considering it as a vacant parcel.
[1:21:42] It is now maybe in 10 years if it's not developed again.
[1:21:47] it'll be on that it'll be a new opportunity area or you're not wrong. Steve, do you have any questions?
[1:21:58] Yeah, I've got, I'm going to go first, Dan, and just if we can go back to page, I'm going to go back way back to beginning page 10.
[1:22:09] So, and I'm going to really get a little bit more kind of strategic on that, not page 10, I'm talking page 10 at the very beginning.
[1:22:20] At the dock, are you talking about the actual,
[1:22:23] the main circuit of sound rate in the executive sound rate?
[1:22:26] In the planet itself.
[1:22:28] I put the plan up if you exit out of here.
[1:22:33] Go down to the PDFs.
[1:22:36] There you go.
[1:22:40] Oh, let's stay here for just one sound in this one.
[1:22:43] Like, so when I opened this up,
[1:22:46] I was disappointed that this was the picture we chose
[1:22:48] for superior, because granted, if you, there's this monument, I guess, that we built.
[1:22:57] But I expected something else other than that to do it.
[1:23:02] Now, again, I am the last person from an artist in all of that, so I'm going to stop with
[1:23:07] that comment.
[1:23:08] I just, I expected to see like, you, one of our events with people all around or something,
[1:23:15] but again, so I'm going to just, that's just my two cents on that.
[1:23:18] If you want to go to page 10.
[1:23:22] I will say to those types of comments, we appreciate them and need them.
[1:23:27] I think those are probably best in the form of getting them during the staff comment period,
[1:23:33] because they are more editorial and this is more for wholesale changes and changes in direction
[1:23:40] and things like that.
[1:23:41] But again, I appreciate the comment.
[1:23:43] So that's fair.
[1:23:44] The page you were looking for.
[1:23:45] It's not showing anymore. There it is. Okay. Yeah, so first of all, there's a couple of grammatical errors on this page, so if someone can look through it and and pick those up and fix them that'd be great.
[1:23:59] When I think of an executive summary, I think it's telling me what are the key things in this document, the key conclusions.
[1:24:07] all we're doing on these pages are telling us what's in it, but we're never telling
[1:24:12] someone, here's the things that we decided in the executive, you know, this is the executive
[1:24:19] summary, here's what we decided, these are just telling us, okay, we did a transportation
[1:24:25] plan, we did this, we did that, and even the format is in there, not to me the format
[1:24:31] shouldn't be in the executive summary, the executive summary should be one page that talks
[1:24:36] about here's the, here's the decisions we made, you know, in the opportunity areas, here's
[1:24:41] the key things, here's the number one and two. I have to get, and this could be that I'm
[1:24:46] slightly ADD, reading a 260 page document, most people aren't going to do it. And I think if
[1:24:54] we lose them and we don't tell them what we decided in this plan here, we're going to lose.
[1:25:00] 50% of the people. So that's more of a structure, and you guys do this a lot. So I'm just giving
[1:25:07] in my two cents. The other thing is when I start reading the first paragraph, it says that we're
[1:25:14] going to regularly update this plan and stuff, but we haven't done it in 12 years. I think we should
[1:25:21] take the word regularly update out, because I think it's a periodic update. Unless we really are going
[1:25:28] change the way we behave as a town,
[1:25:30] because I think we're inferring that we're gonna do this
[1:25:32] a lot more regularly than what we're practically gonna do.
[1:25:39] So, that's kind of my thought process around here.
[1:25:45] I thought the executive summary should grab you
[1:25:48] and want you to read further in the doc and get things,
[1:25:51] and this doesn't really
[1:25:55] end.
[1:26:00] I have to agree about the executive summary.
[1:26:04] I think it should be as impactful
[1:26:05] and it's informative as possible. This is a tremendously long document.
[1:26:12] I personally have gone
[1:26:15] through and taken a quick prose of headers and whatnot. I haven't read this. It's hard to
[1:26:35] of our residents and how can we make that just make it really easily digestible? And if you've
[1:26:43] got something in an executive summary and say, see, you know, go to section XYZ to see more.
[1:26:53] Would be helpful.
[1:26:58] Yeah, and if we think there's opportunities, if we think like we should tell
[1:27:01] people what are number one opportunity areas and what we what we think we should be doing right
[1:27:06] And if we've decided that, if we believe that, that we have, we should come out and tell people that.
[1:27:11] If we think there's things that we feel strongly about, I think we should state it right here versus making people dig through the document and try to find it.
[1:27:23] Because most people aren't going to do it. I mean, we're not like we're the one group who's supposed to do it and granted we just got it last night.
[1:27:30] So I will look through the whole thing, but I'm surely not looking forward to 270 pages, I can tell you that.
[1:27:36] I think that's a very good comment, because even when we've
[1:27:40] before we started this process, Mark Laces, who was then on the town board,
[1:27:47] I made the comment that he didn't want another pile of paper that was going to
[1:27:52] sit on a shelf. And if you give people 270 pages, that's a pile of paper that's
[1:27:58] to sit on a shelf. I mean the best you can hope really is if you produce or I think the best
[1:28:04] you can hope for or the most you can expect for most people who aren't into it on a day-to-day
[1:28:10] basis is that they might read an executive summary and so having a good executive summary is actually
[1:28:18] really important to connecting with the people who are reading it. I also think since this is
[1:28:26] PDF format you should have links so that they say go to the section and you can just press it and you go there that's a great idea
[1:28:34] That will be a part of future
[1:28:36] future drafts we were under a bit of a time crunch on this one and yeah, the whole the whole PDF will be linked within
[1:28:44] chapters if there's a figure
[1:28:45] reference somewhere you could click on that and it'll it'll link you to to that section of the document
[1:28:52] But it would be great to learn, because we've gone through a couple of iterations of a word document version of the text of the draft with staff, and this was just a first stab at showing it to you all, but it would be great if you have a list of what you'd like included in the executive summary, we're happy to do that.
[1:29:17] Our first conversations with staff were not to include all the details within each opportunity area,
[1:29:24] which certainly couldn't all be on one page, but if you do want that within the executive summary,
[1:29:32] we could do kind of an expanded executive summary that's more comprehensive and touches on
[1:29:37] kind of everything. It's just hard to, we could do just the goals for each chapter instead of the goals and strategies or
[1:29:47] I mean, I've done a bad news to you, but I mean, I think if the executive set summary
[1:29:52] was on my like 10 pages long, that would be perfectly fine, and if it was 20 pages long,
[1:29:57] that wouldn't be terrible, I mean, it just has to be a link.
[1:30:00] But somebody that I felt that a resident will read, I think that's really the thing that is most
[1:30:08] determined. I'm sorry. Yeah, and I'll add one more thing there. As you go through the document in
[1:30:17] you lay out, like we put a lot of history in here, like there's background in there's things. Like
[1:30:23] I would have thought that right following the executive summary, we'd have opportunity areas and
[1:30:28] key things we really, but again, if we're going to use a one or page to one to two page
[1:30:34] objective summary, then having those things we want people to look at should be in the
[1:30:39] front. And I think it's really important all the work we did and you guys did building
[1:30:45] this and interviews and all that stuff is good. But we're going to lose people, we don't
[1:30:50] really expect them to read it. They're not going to give them what they came for. They want
[1:30:55] everyone wants to see the opportunity years, you know, what do they want to see? Let's put that at the front of the report and put the the background. I would typically like I put it all in appendix, you know, the when I do stuff like this. I don't because I don't expect people to read it. They can go there and the hyperlink to it and find it. But it's got to be it's the core of the report has got to be condensed if we expect people to read it.
[1:31:24] I will say I hear you and I understand your concern.
[1:31:28] I will say that 95% of people that interact with this document will be online and it being
[1:31:36] linked in a format of like look at page 11 where we're talking about chapter 3, touches
[1:31:42] on land use, chapter 5, economic development, the workforce, household jobs, income jobs,
[1:31:48] And things like that, you know, each of those chapters will be linked, so in a way, this is providing you the roadmap of where to get in the document.
[1:31:59] We can rearrange the order of those, however, however makes the most sense for people who are digesting the document.
[1:32:09] I think having the links is great and it should be, but I don't think it detracts well.
[1:32:17] maybe it's an age thing again. I mean I always read executive summaries whether I actually read
[1:32:23] what came after them, depending on what was in the executive summary.
[1:32:29] This actually goes back,
[1:32:31] I mean the previous, the 2012 plan has a whole bunch of appendices on economic data and things
[1:32:39] like that that you could look at if you were interested in, but didn't really materially affect
[1:32:45] recommendations on the opportunity areas, which for what I think, I mean, I looked at those
[1:32:53] a lot. A lot of the other things, I read once or twice, like there was a section on transport
[1:33:02] and things like that often because they'd become out of date. But I was Steve on this,
[1:33:09] I think having a good executive summary that tells people
[1:33:13] 60 or 70% of what they need to know so that they can go
[1:33:17] into the detail to find the other 30%
[1:33:21] it is really quite important.
[1:33:25] I think, and this will be my last comment.
[1:33:29] I think I read it and I don't know what to take away from it because
[1:33:33] there's so much, right?
[1:33:35] And so what are those and maybe we should talk about it as the
[1:33:38] I didn't commit shit, what are those three or four things
[1:33:40] we want people to take away from this document?
[1:33:43] And I don't know that I can tell you those right now
[1:33:46] off the top of my head, but I think it's someone said
[1:33:49] earlier, maybe David said this, it's our document, right?
[1:33:53] What do we want people to remember from this document and read?
[1:33:57] And I don't, I can't tell you that I know the answer
[1:33:59] got that right now.
[1:34:01] I can't.
[1:34:03] OK.
[1:34:04] I think we need a table in the beginning
[1:34:08] that has all the opportunity areas, it lists their names, it probably lists their parcel
[1:34:14] acres, and then just primary and secondary uses, and you just have like a ton of links in there.
[1:34:23] And I know me and my husband when we talk about articles and stuff, we say give me the TLDR,
[1:34:31] which is too long didn't read and we want to paragraph and maybe that happens on
[1:34:42] like the first page or something. I don't know that you should call it TLDR but
[1:34:46] that's what everyone of my age will call it and I think it should just do
[1:34:51] opportunity areas probably affordable housing and link it to affordable housing
[1:34:59] Recommendation.
[1:35:01] And, like, action items, like those three.
[1:35:07] Yeah, I've got to expand, I'd say. What are the things that the health, I mean, affordable housing
[1:35:15] is one of the town's principle goals, economic development is one of the town's principle goals.
[1:35:22] I mean, what you're really saying is that the opportunity areas of the core of this plan,
[1:35:29] that they're the important things, that's why you want to put them first.
[1:35:33] And I agree with that, actually.
[1:35:35] I think that, I mean, if anybody wants to put the first thing the people who they're
[1:35:40] down on Andrew's lane will do is they'll look to see what the plan says about development
[1:35:44] on town 15.
[1:35:46] The first thing the people who put down the market place will do is they'll look
[1:35:50] around, they'll look to see what it says about development in the marketplace.
[1:35:54] I think that's what makes those the most important things.
[1:35:57] But if you could, I think linking it to affordable housing or linking it to the section of economic development,
[1:36:07] if you can blend those together to have an executive summary, which is a summary, but has enough information in it,
[1:36:16] but if somebody who looks at it will feel they've got an idea of what the plan says is important.
[1:36:22] Can I make a suggestion? So, just in the effort of time and the fact that none of us have really read this yet.
[1:36:35] If you, like, the executive summary piece I have written down and we will first look at what that looks like.
[1:36:46] I'd love it if you all, when you're going through and, you know, providing comments, if you
[1:36:54] highlight, you know,
[1:36:58] where something is that should be in the executive summary. Like if you're
[1:37:03] if you're reading through the document,
[1:37:07] put a star or make a note that says, you know, this sentence or this
[1:37:14] section or something, just tell us where you all individually feel like things should, like
[1:37:22] this should be in the executive summary, this should be in the executive summary and then
[1:37:27] we'll take all of your comments and our comments and they'll try to figure out how to incorporate
[1:37:34] as much as we possibly can and then when we bring it back to you, well as part of our presentation
[1:37:41] And for your approval of the draft plan,
[1:37:44] we'll be the final draft draft plan.
[1:37:48] The one that we send out for public review,
[1:37:53] we'll talk about how the feedback that we received
[1:37:57] from you, the feedback they received from staff,
[1:38:03] and then we'll incorporate that,
[1:38:05] and how we've incorporated that into the next version
[1:38:08] that you see when we bring it back.
[1:38:10] I honestly think for the reasons Steve gave that you should have an executive summary before you sent it out to the public
[1:38:18] Because the public will read the except and must fall likely to read the executive summary that they ought to read the plan
[1:38:24] That's the plan. Yes, so we your comment period goes through January 2nd
[1:38:29] We will be modifying the plan based on your comments and then the public draft is January 15th
[1:38:34] I mean, I've got to read 276 pages between that comment.
[1:38:39] I'm not joking.
[1:38:42] We can adjust the timing.
[1:38:44] And that's not.
[1:38:46] It's not.
[1:38:46] It's not.
[1:38:46] It's not.
[1:38:47] Steve went first.
[1:38:49] So that means you can go second.
[1:38:52] Um, is there a share?
[1:38:55] Is there a way to share this document so we can all put our edits and comments?
[1:39:01] 100%.
[1:39:02] 100%.
[1:39:03] Or just let us do our own, save the document, so yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing, I'd love that.
[1:39:10] We can provide a link like we've done in the past.
[1:39:12] It's going to go be shared link where it's a shared PDF and everybody can see each other's comments and comment on comments and things like that.
[1:39:21] But I'll leave that up to you, Renee.
[1:39:24] Is that would that help be helpful for you all?
[1:39:26] to see comments from, see everyone's comments in a draft form, or do you want, like, it's
[1:39:38] not going to be a word document,
[1:39:42] right? You don't want to edit that word document, but if
[1:39:46] we want to highlight something, yeah, you've been about it, or that, I mean, I think some
[1:39:54] our comments, we'll relate to each other and, you know, how many copies.
[1:40:08] So we've done these a few different ways for internally, we will have like a, basically a comment, letter that we provide, and it'll just go, you know, chapter by chapter, and then you call out the page number and you make your comment.
[1:40:31] And that makes it easier to go through the comments that way.
[1:40:37] I would fade a something like that because I think if you set it up so that we can all edit it all at the same time.
[1:40:44] So essentially we're editing each other's edits as we go along.
[1:40:49] That's potentially rather confusing.
[1:40:52] Like it depends on what kind of editing capability we have.
[1:40:57] If we get a document like this in Adobe would it be?
[1:41:00] I'm just being commenting on that.
[1:41:02] No, I mean, but it's like the capability you would have with Adobe
[1:41:04] Acrobat would it be that good?
[1:41:08] So you could like insert text, a suggested text or is it just going to be
[1:41:11] comments with messages or things like that?
[1:41:15] I was thinking comments with messages without changing the actual text
[1:41:18] because we don't want to edit their document.
[1:41:21] They'll edit their document.
[1:41:23] OK.
[1:41:25] I mean, when we do it, we do it in blue bean.
[1:41:27] But it, like, you add, like, a little, you have a couple,
[1:41:33] like you can add a text box, or you can have, like, a little.
[1:41:35] Right, right, so I think that would be nice.
[1:41:37] Yeah.
[1:41:37] Kind of stuff.
[1:41:39] And then it knows what page you're putting that on and who the author is.
[1:41:44] And it's like, that's it.
[1:41:45] That would be great.
[1:41:48] Or if this was in a Google Doc even, I know some of you might not
[1:41:52] put a Google Doc would do this easily.
[1:41:54] I don't think you want to do something where you like track changes.
[1:41:57] I think you want, like a PDF with comments.
[1:42:01] Well, I mean, you just do comment, you don't have to necessarily track the changes, but you
[1:42:04] could see everyone's comments of where they are and, you know, so I'll live with whatever
[1:42:10] we decide.
[1:42:12] So, that's sure whatever's easy for you guys, you'll have to take those all the comments.
[1:42:15] You know, the people who have to cope with the comments, well, part of it is like, you
[1:42:20] know, we use blue beam and we, you can highlight and then add a comment, but like, you all
[1:42:26] don't necessarily have Adobe or blue beam or in design or what, you know, like, I don't
[1:42:33] expect that you have all of that. I don't have that on my home computer.
[1:42:37] Oh, yes, we have.
[1:42:38] I have, like, the tea perversion of PDF that doesn't cost anything. So, like, adding comments
[1:42:46] to PDF is a challenge on my home computer. So, I don't want to assume that you all have
[1:42:53] ability to make comments in a particular format, which is why like putting a word document
[1:43:02] out with like chapter one, chapter two, and then, you know, your name, and then your comments,
[1:43:09] and that can be a Google doc that you provide comments on.
[1:43:13] And then you could attach, you know, if you want to like highlight something in the PDF version,
[1:43:18] And you could just say, see PDF, red lines or something like that.
[1:43:24] Is there not a web-based thing?
[1:43:28] There is.
[1:43:30] Yes, so what we can do with our software is upload a PDF and it's an Adobe link.
[1:43:37] So you can go in and use the most basic Adobe tools, but insert text.
[1:43:43] replace selected text, highlight, things like that, and then everyone can do that, but it's all
[1:43:53] online so you have to be connected to Wi-Fi, but it doesn't require you to have that software.
[1:44:01] But again, we're going to be asking staff to consolidate, comments, and give us direction based on all of
[1:44:08] because there could potentially be some conflicting
[1:44:11] direction, and so we were going to need a pretty
[1:44:15] streamlined document.
[1:44:17] And so I guess it's kind of, you know, it's up to you all how
[1:44:21] you want to do this review process.
[1:44:23] If you think you need more time, if we need another meeting.
[1:44:29] I mean, I'm not opposed to providing a link for them to make
[1:44:32] their comments that way, and it might be easier.
[1:44:36] I don't want them to be commenting on the same one that we are commenting on that stuff.
[1:44:41] You can provide like different links. Yeah. Okay.
[1:44:44] So maybe we'll do it that way.
[1:44:46] We'll fill set up a link, I'll send it to you all, and you can choose.
[1:44:50] I mean, if you need to do it in a word document and write it out, that's fine.
[1:44:55] You all, but you'll have the ability to edit it in that in that same.
[1:45:00] For a minute.
[1:45:02] Yeah, sounds good?
[1:45:04] Cool.
[1:45:06] Do people think we need another meeting to kind of agree on our feedback?
[1:45:14] Well, when I was going to, we never did get through all the opportunity areas. We got through
[1:45:18] those and see if there's anything that kind of, that we all say,
[1:45:22] gee, you should change this, or I think that's what was.
[1:45:24] Nor is looking for feedback. What is anything, are we against any
[1:45:28] recommendations or I think they should be different.
[1:45:32] I'm trying to have me very good at summarizing this, but the two that I'm distinctly
[1:45:38] remembering, or one that I would like to try and provide something in the way of guidance
[1:45:43] about the actual sizes and the developments, and you would like to provide.
[1:45:47] I would like that, too, and then I take it one step further, if it's possible.
[1:45:50] You might be able to say that this is a good opportunity for the areas for affordable housing.
[1:45:55] Or any of the housing we've got goals for housing, what are the best
[1:46:00] opportunity areas to meet those goals?
[1:46:04] I think there are some opportunities that are better than others.
[1:46:08] I know that's really what I think is where I think Steve was going with.
[1:46:11] We should prioritize these areas for which ones do we think we should really focus them.
[1:46:17] I mean, Sahara this has been sitting there for years.
[1:46:20] If it sits there for more years, that's probably not going to do.
[1:46:24] They might have much of an impact on the town, developing development in the marketplace would have an immediate impact on the town.
[1:46:34] So do we think the marketplace is a more important, more important location than Zaharias.
[1:46:41] Is there actually a way of ranking them, but makes sense?
[1:46:45] I don't think you want to rank them as part of the comprehensive plan.
[1:46:49] And because we don't know what the developers are going to be looking for, they're all equally
[1:46:58] important to the town, what's important is that the land use has make sense for the location
[1:47:06] of each parcel.
[1:47:11] I guess we'll see it so for this one for housing, this could perhaps be middle, senior, even
[1:47:17] affordable.
[1:47:18] just kind of list that and I guess the question on housing in which I raised the council
[1:47:25] meeting is when we say housing to beneath rental or to mean for sale or I don't know
[1:47:31] it seems like we should distinguish if we have a preference. I'm kind of like David when I saw
[1:47:38] the all these rental units there. It didn't seem like that was a great use that's consistent
[1:47:44] with, like, sagabar, for instance, I mean, so I, that wouldn't, I don't know, I don't know.
[1:47:49] I mean, I'd love to see more starter homes that would be a good idea.
[1:47:53] I don't know.
[1:47:53] I mean, I don't know.
[1:47:54] And I mean, this was a great one for that.
[1:47:58] But again, this wouldn't, this doesn't regulate that out.
[1:48:02] I understand that.
[1:48:03] It's just, we think it'd be great, that's, that's all I'm saying.
[1:48:06] I wonder if the solution is more in the policies where we could, so, come to the,
[1:48:13] Well, the other thing getting back the day of it's talking about the density, so let's say we figure,
[1:48:19] I mean, I think medium density makes the most sense there, but then okay, if it's medium density,
[1:48:24] if we're 20 to 30 units per acre, then the next step is, okay, what kind of a population increase
[1:48:31] is that going to lead to? And I thought that would be valuable just to know what's our ultimate
[1:48:35] population going to be? And that kind of goes into one major thing is water, water availability.
[1:48:41] Yeah,
[1:48:49] I was trying to find our housing actions where we could say something like, you know, we're promoting affordable housing.
[1:48:59] Consider the 76th street, consider superior marketplace and, you know,
[1:49:04] Marketplace wouldn't be, it would only be for affordable housing or.
[1:49:09] Yeah, I think it fits under H1.3 which is from the development and missing middle housing.
[1:49:14] I think if you put in another, it's on page 123.
[1:49:18] I think if you put another bullet point in to specific points.
[1:49:21] Yeah, that's a good way to promote opportunities
[1:49:23] that we know that need this attention.
[1:49:26] You've solved it under age 1.3.
[1:49:30] Or that's a good way of kind of referencing the goal,
[1:49:32] this particular point.
[1:49:33] Well, that's why I'd mentioned position statements.
[1:49:35] So taking goal this and taking land use this
[1:49:38] and this opportunity, the commission takes this position
[1:49:41] on how this site should be developed.
[1:49:45] this document just can't do that here because it has to be evergreen but I mean
[1:49:50] you know like you could say like just for the 76 okay it this would be a good
[1:49:54] site for a company goals ab and c when the numbers are yeah yeah yeah I mean that'd be
[1:49:59] okay
[1:50:00] Okay. Yeah. I think it could be either way. Yeah.
[1:50:05] It would not be for affordable housing, just to have a location.
[1:50:08] Sure.
[1:50:08] Better for missing middle or starter homes or whatnot.
[1:50:12] I think it could, it could be accomplished either way. I think it's about preference.
[1:50:16] If you want it in the opportunity area section or you want it here, the idea is that when staff is reviewing proposals for
[1:50:24] development, they're looking at both the goals and the opportunity area in future
[1:50:29] landies map.
[1:50:31] But everyone said that the easiest thing to read in the report is the opportunity
[1:50:35] areas.
[1:50:36] Those pages.
[1:50:36] Those are great.
[1:50:38] That's so easy to read.
[1:50:40] I think the more we could put in there to kind of just capture everything we're doing.
[1:50:44] I think that'd be the way to do it.
[1:50:46] Maybe when you're going through an editing, I think that's what you're talking about as a good
[1:50:52] idea.
[1:50:52] is if you want to call out H, you know, 1.3 in the opportunity areas and just list the, like,
[1:51:04] we can tie those goals or actions or strategies or whatever it is that you point to within
[1:51:12] that opportunity area. I mean, that's kind of a, that's actually a great idea. It's like to
[1:51:21] see if we can tie some of tie the plan together so that, I mean, that's what we're supposed
[1:51:27] to be doing. You're using a plan to meet goals. Yeah. Yeah. So if you can, if you think that
[1:51:34] like these land uses and this built form and these housing type, this makes sense to meet such
[1:51:41] and such goal, then we could call out that goal within this section. And I think if you just
[1:51:48] Listed as like S1.1 and then you can link to S1.1 and yeah, yeah, I think it'd be good to keep the single page format for each of these like
[1:52:00] I mean, you're just gonna make the photos the smaller to add more text for the some of the photos are nice, but anyway, I think that's really easy to read and
[1:52:08] kind of I said, well, I thought you could even use those for the executive summary
[1:52:13] I mean there will be 16 or 18 pages, but they're real easy to read
[1:52:24] Yeah, I think so maybe what I'm hearing is adding just a section of these opportunity area
[1:52:32] sections that's basically priority goals for implementation or priority strategies
[1:52:38] and just list them and link them and then you can connect these two pieces of the plan.
[1:52:46] I think that improves the plan because it gives more focus to it actually.
[1:52:51] Sure.
[1:52:55] Sounds good.
[1:53:03] What thing on town 15? I can't resist that.
[1:53:07] I think you had listed a use of as town facilities and I really don't think that's just,
[1:53:16] I don't think that's a great, the best spot for our new town hall or a bigger town hall.
[1:53:20] I think town where it is now.
[1:53:22] So I wouldn't really even include that.
[1:53:25] I wouldn't include the photo of a rec center.
[1:53:27] I think I've heard town council say I kind of agree.
[1:53:30] I don't think there's any way superior is ever going to afford to build a wreck center.
[1:53:34] I think the idea of town offices was only if a wreck center were to happen, if there,
[1:53:40] if it's in the future the town needs to expand office space, that would be an opportunity to,
[1:53:45] to be a part of that building.
[1:53:47] I mean, I think that is something that towns actively looking at needs.
[1:53:51] I mean, they're all over town right now and how many buildings.
[1:53:54] But I don't think there's no way we can afford a rec center.
[1:54:01] We just had a taxi increase for night insidums.
[1:54:04] You'd probably have to partner with boys and girls club or something like that.
[1:54:09] But it would be a partner with someone.
[1:54:11] Yes, we're private firms.
[1:54:13] Yeah, not their own rec center.
[1:54:15] So I wouldn't even list that at all on town 15.
[1:54:18] I would.
[1:54:20] I would say we heard it pretty loud and clear from the community that it's a priority and we need to show space for it in the comprehensive plan, but.
[1:54:30] It's it's already there in the existing zoning.
[1:54:33] It's not.
[1:54:34] That's that's what the current town 15 allows for.
[1:54:38] Of it for town buildings.
[1:54:40] At the moment.
[1:54:42] But it allows for commercial.
[1:54:44] It's a neighborhood commercial.
[1:54:46] Zoning.
[1:54:47] If the town wanted to build a new town sensor on it, could it do that?
[1:54:54] I think that it would fall, and I'm not sure if it's an allowed user, if it's a used by special review.
[1:55:00] Or something like that. I mean, like, the zoning of it doesn't really matter. The what matters is that the uses that are supported by
[1:55:17] you all and residents and staff and council are these types of uses and the
[1:55:28] recreation uses a broad use it shows a recreation center it could be like
[1:55:34] use that a boys and girls club it could be a library it could be just like a
[1:55:39] a small, you know, storage facility for an adjacent field park space, it could be not
[1:55:50] not a building at all in just recreation and open space.
[1:55:55] Actually, I think there's, I mean, over time I've heard a lot of people say we don't need to build
[1:56:03] recreation center in Superior because there are lots of them in the adjacent area and we've
[1:56:09] certainly heard a lot of people say we don't need to build residential properties on town
[1:56:14] 15. So we've actually, I mean at the moment you have two photographs of things that
[1:56:20] It various times would have negative expressions about them.
[1:56:32] I mean, I think the one that will probably win most support will be the sports fields in the middle.
[1:56:39] I would be surprised if anything got built on this property in the next 10 years.
[1:56:47] But, I mean, it keeps the concept open.
[1:56:49] Well, and the current zoning is commercial, so regardless, I mean, nothing in here is really, I mean, potentially use by review or condition or use, but anything proposed would need to come to you anyway.
[1:57:08] I am the town owns it, so nothing's getting built there unless the town says so.
[1:57:17] I'll just make a comment.
[1:57:19] That's true.
[1:57:20] Can we flip through some of the others quickly, Nora?
[1:57:22] I can't remember if I had any others just struck me
[1:57:25] that I didn't think it was ever going to just
[1:57:28] didn't make sense.
[1:57:31] Oh, I know the one discovery.
[1:57:35] So that was kind of a change.
[1:57:38] We've got a recommendation for residential.
[1:57:47] Yeah, I guess I was a little surprised to see that,
[1:57:49] Although, clearly, no one's building office buildings there.
[1:57:54] It says on the document that it's hard to get commercial vehicles into that spot.
[1:58:00] But I thought that's most of that.
[1:58:02] It's not that.
[1:58:02] That's part of the background on that specific thing.
[1:58:06] It's one of the allies.
[1:58:07] I think it was.
[1:58:08] Is that why?
[1:58:09] Do you know why that's not been no one's been interested in building more office buildings there?
[1:58:14] I thought their office buildings were narrowly.
[1:58:15] Yeah, so the approved plan is for more office buildings and they're just not building
[1:58:26] offices any more right now and for the foreseeable future I would say and so we were
[1:58:37] looking at what else makes sense for this site you don't want to prevent additional office
[1:58:42] should it come back? And this would be, you know, the primary site for additional office space should
[1:58:49] offices be, you know, make it come back. But what else makes sense for this site other than that?
[1:58:59] I think someone said if we open that for residential, we'd have to develop our feet down
[1:59:03] our doors to build them there. And it depends on the type of residential that we recommend and then
[1:59:12] When we bring it to you, what it looks like and how it interacts with surrounding land uses and does it preserve anything for future office space or commercial or something else.
[1:59:27] Those are all questions that could come with an actual plan for development of the site.
[1:59:34] And this recommendation would allow for those.
[1:59:39] When that was planned as an office site, I don't think blocks two and five were available as office sites were they.
[1:59:49] I think that's discovered, I forget when the platform that was done, but I think it's before the marketplace isn't it?
[1:59:59] Before down it was
[2:00:00] Was it before the marketplace? I mean, I was going to say for sure before down town, like two and five came after discovery.
[2:00:10] Oh, yes, two and five were lunch and half of it.
[2:00:13] And I also think like key bank has a lot of vacancy.
[2:00:16] Do like current office buildings have a lot of vacancy.
[2:00:20] Yeah.
[2:00:21] The property owners of the discovery, the existing office there said that they've had struggles with fleecing
[2:00:29] spaces. Okay, I think the preference originally was to make it office space, but then the absence
[2:00:37] of it ever becoming office space. I mean, it's not obvious reason not to use it for residents.
[2:00:43] No, I agree. I mean, it's just, yeah, I think if we open up the residential from what I've gathered,
[2:00:48] it'll go be a high priority property, it will go that way quickly. I think any of your
[2:00:56] opportunity areas open to residential. I mean, I think it's happening.
[2:01:04] Yeah. And so then basically, if we did that there, then the only office for
[2:01:09] issues, the most office space is downtown, those two.
[2:01:15] Yeah. So when those, I mean, when and if we pass, you know, we'll approve this
[2:01:20] plan with these recommendations. If it says that housing is as a
[2:01:25] possibility when they, if, if a developer comes and bring something to you all, you'll be able to look to this to say that yes, that's an allowed, you know, that's that's recommended as something by the comprehensive plan. So it's not out of character. But what else are you looking to see with that development? That's when you look to the municipal code and our, you know,
[2:01:48] rezoning of property, what are the rezoning it to and doesn't make sense for the area
[2:01:53] and all the other things that you all want to talk about, what as it pertains to each of these sites
[2:01:59] come kind of, we just want to make sure that the recommendations allow for the developments
[2:02:07] to occur and to make sure that the use is makes sense for the site and economic
[2:02:18] I guess that they're economically viable also for both the town and those property owners.
[2:02:28] Okay, all right, I guess yeah, I mean I I was surprised to see that in no way we hadn't really we hadn't really talked about that, but
[2:02:36] Okay, I think during the two open houses turning this in the residential was quite a popular vote was it?
[2:02:46] Yeah, I mean, I think if office uses will be viable and I do think office is going to
[2:02:56] make a comeback, but I think really prioritizing it along Discovery Parkway because there's
[2:03:02] no viable access from McCaslin because of this access here and so really for access reasons
[2:03:10] you would want that office used to be here, and then you've got supporting residential behind it.
[2:03:16] And there are topography and drainage challenges that are going to make developing this
[2:03:22] site difficult. So the more flexibility you can provide, the more viable it is to be developed.
[2:03:34] Good.
[2:03:41] There's more questions, more consideration. No comments or questions. I know that
[2:03:45] be able to put specific considerations and questions on our comment document. So, I'll
[2:03:51] reserve those for there.
[2:03:54] Anne, we wouldn't want you to feel you're always last because you're online.
[2:04:00] No, I think I'm good at this point. Thanks.
[2:04:04] Remember?
[2:04:07] I'll get you more for a minute.
[2:04:09] Oh, okay.
[2:04:10] Great. Okay. Well, I think...
[2:04:14] Awesome.
[2:04:15] Well, thank you very much.
[2:04:16] We appreciate you putting this together and coming presenting it to us.
[2:04:21] Well, we'll see you soon, and I'll work with Renee on getting you a link and figuring out exactly what the best way of providing comment is, but we'll make sure to get that to you as soon as possible.
[2:04:32] Thank you again for your time tonight.
[2:04:34] Thank you.
[2:04:39] Okay.
[2:04:43] I don't think there's anything we have to take a vote.
[2:04:46] All right, good.
[2:04:51] Okay, the next slide, I'm just going to move on to the next slide,
[2:04:54] some on our agenda, a set of reasons.
[2:04:57] Oh, no, it's gone. So I think we have to, right?
[2:05:01] Okay.
[2:05:05] The 2020-26 draft plan, I can probably short this a little by saying, it's firstly identical to the 2025 draft plan with the addition of items. I think it's five, six and seven.
[2:05:20] Yes.
[2:05:21] Yeah, we tried to add, so I...
[2:05:24] Which I didn't actually quite understand.
[2:05:33] Hold on a second, let me get the thing.
[2:05:34] So,
[2:05:53] thank you.
[2:05:55] These are, um, so yeah, adopt the comprehensive plan obviously is, hopefully going to happen in the first quarter of next year.
[2:06:11] This is a carryover from last year and years prior.
[2:06:17] These will continue to bring to you and update you on as we can,
[2:06:27] updating on code and legislation.
[2:06:30] We do as much as we can.
[2:06:32] Whenever it's relevant, we for sure provide it in the update section at the end of each council meeting.
[2:06:42] I'm council planning commission meeting sorry.
[2:06:48] So five, six and seven are long range planning projects that we've been awarded grants for next year.
[2:07:03] So they're all projects that we're going to be working on over the course of the next year and into the future that would pertain to land use items.
[2:07:14] So we added them mostly to make sure that you are aware of them and also to make to see if you want to
[2:07:26] how you want to participate in them and if you want to participate in them. You don't typically
[2:07:33] participate in land use code updates, necessarily, unless they're zoning related. This one is landscaping.
[2:07:45] We got this, we got a grant to update our landscape code. Next year, it's from the Colorado
[2:07:56] water conservation board and it's specifically in order to help with water wisely and escaping,
[2:08:07] I guess, is the best word. So like it'll right now our landscape code doesn't match what our priorities
[2:08:22] are as a town. So over the course of time, our consultant who does our landscaping reviews,
[2:08:33] she knows what we're looking for and so she just provides comments and feedback in accordance
[2:08:38] to our priorities and what we need to see from landscaping perspective. But ideally, you have a code
[2:08:46] And that matches those that you provide to interested developers and then they draft a landscape plan based on that code.
[2:08:58] So right now we kind of have a mismatch in our code doesn't necessarily reflect what we want to see in a landscape plan.
[2:09:07] And since you all review planning development proposals, which include landscape plans, the landscape code is being updated, one of the main goals is so that we can get better landscape plans.
[2:09:26] We wanted to ensure that one, you know, we're doing it into welcome you to participate in the process as we go through.
[2:09:34] we're going to hire a consulting team and go through, you know, some public outreach and update
[2:09:41] the code to more accurately reflect town priorities for landscaping.
[2:09:49] Wildfire purposes, water, consumption purposes, all of the above.
[2:09:58] I think that's a good plan.
[2:10:00] Okay, the second one, number six is TBM Transportation Demand Management Ordnance. We were granted, we were awarded a grant to draft an ordinance, which is another code that will go in the land use code, and this will look at kind of multimodal opportunities around town.
[2:10:33] So I think you need to spell that out because no one's going to know what TDM is. Yes, you are right. Okay,
[2:10:45] it's type apparently.
[2:11:01] Do you need a TDM transportation?
[2:11:09] I really like all the animals.
[2:11:17] I don't know what we really mean.
[2:11:21] But that strikes me as something that there's the first we were Alex.
[2:11:31] Well,
[2:11:35] actually our planning department is leading this grant project because it's more based on how to get what land use is and what how to get people from one place to another, not using a vehicle and what
[2:11:56] What land use is makes sense next to each other as part of like like how do you integrate like the transportation network with adjacent land uses so the ordinances tied around how people can get to different types of uses without using a vehicle.
[2:12:22] It's not all about multimodal, so it includes cars, but the focus is going to more focus around a marketplace and developments around the marketplace and the RTDs Center and how to get people to and from those areas with ease.
[2:12:44] I mean, I'd be interested in it.
[2:12:48] Yeah, yeah.
[2:12:48] It's
[2:12:51] the ordinance that we're relaxing.
[2:12:53] The ordinance will actually come up with.
[2:12:55] Yeah, so we don't have an ordinance for this transportation demand management.
[2:13:02] So when we, so this would be another thing where if we got a development application that came in,
[2:13:08] we would look at, they would have to meet some portion of this ordinance,
[2:13:12] which would talk about how the development connects to adjacent uses from a transportation
[2:13:20] perspective, not necessarily from a land like not does the buildings match the neighboring
[2:13:27] buildings, but how do you how do people interact between the uses of each development?
[2:13:39] So it would be adding like bike lanes and yeah, sidewalk, I mean, it's not the transportation
[2:13:47] plan, so it doesn't talk about like not, you know, we need a sidewalk here and it should
[2:13:54] be five feet or eight feet or whatever the transportation plan says, it's really about, you
[2:14:01] know, the people and how they use the space and how the spaces integrate between each other
[2:14:08] and how you, how you, how you move from one, one development, one area to another.
[2:14:17] You know, I think this is really relevant when the residential development came up on 76th street.
[2:14:28] Just recently, I felt like that was a piece.
[2:14:32] That was just completely missing.
[2:14:35] If there was a little vision, as far as
[2:14:38] however people going to get out of this development
[2:14:44] and onto the bike path along 36 or onto right-of market place.
[2:14:52] Or like, yeah, so there's nothing in our code.
[2:14:55] you know, when they develop a parcel, they have to look at, there's, you know, there's
[2:15:00] We don't have anything in our code that talks about how people are going to connect. Like the parks department wants to make sure that parks are included and opens faces and is included and the public works department checks on utilities and, you know, transportation from the perspective of is there enough parking and how our car is going to get in and out of the site.
[2:15:23] We look at, you know, planners look at sidewalks and things like that, so to parks and recreation,
[2:15:32] but there's nothing in the code that says how that development should integrate to external uses that are adjacent and requirements for it to do that.
[2:15:50] I like what it should look like and how it should interact and we're hiring consultant again through this grant to help us draft the ordinance and help us better understand what it could look like.
[2:16:07] So I don't know that it's new, but we don't have it.
[2:16:12] And I've never worked in a municipality or done a project in a municipality that had transportation
[2:16:19] demand management ordinance,
[2:16:23] but it feels relevant, especially now, as we're looking
[2:16:27] at these developments sites, especially following the comprehensive plan, like these grants
[2:16:34] that we got for next year really helped in guiding the, you know, the next steps in the, in the comprehensive plan.
[2:16:41] We, we can adopt the comprehensive plan that says what goes where and then we adopt these to help direct to the actual developments that get proposed so that we not only know we're getting the uses that we want and that we're following, you know, our priorities as a town,
[2:16:59] but that the developments themselves
[2:17:03] are going to speak to the priorities of the town
[2:17:06] and that people will be able to use the developments
[2:17:11] and enjoy the, enjoy them, I guess.
[2:17:17] And all of them seems a bit far,
[2:17:20] bit strong actually.
[2:17:21] How about a transportation demand management plan?
[2:17:24] So there's there's
[2:17:30] there's portions of the transportation plan that talk about transportation
[2:17:35] demand management. I don't I don't know what a plan for TMD looks like. I don't I will be
[2:17:47] Honestly, I don't know like everything about this grant that we received, other than it was awarded and Jeffrey worked on it and he knows what transportation demand management means from the perspective of the grant that was written to draft the ordinance.
[2:18:12] I mean, all of you suggest you're going to set out rules and expect people.
[2:18:18] The ordinance is a municipal code, so all of these are code updates that we'll be adding
[2:18:23] to the land use section of the code so that when developments come in, they have to meet
[2:18:29] these requirements.
[2:18:30] So this TMD ordinance will talk about when you develop, when you develop a parcel, you
[2:18:37] have to consider these things that are around you and you have to consider how people are
[2:18:42] to access those things. And if you don't have access to them, then you need to provide access.
[2:18:49] So it creates, you know, a stronger tie for each development to adjacent uses.
[2:18:58] Okay, so I'd say it'd be really good to get it in place before somebody comes back from a plant in six degrees.
[2:19:07] Well, we're going to do it next year.
[2:19:10] And then number seven is encouraging ADU development and there's like a repeat of words.
[2:19:21] Thank you, Rob.
[2:19:22] I know.
[2:19:23] Yeah.
[2:19:24] I copy and paste it and then it didn't, yeah.
[2:19:30] This is what we called our application and our project is building together encouraging
[2:19:36] ADU development and superior.
[2:19:39] Thank you.
[2:19:40] You've got an extra space at the front as well.
[2:19:48] Yeah,
[2:19:55] that's actually that could be a little more complicated than it sounds because I've hurt
[2:20:00] Comments that some of the ADUs that have been built in original town are being used to short-term rentals. Do you know if that's true?
[2:20:08] There's nothing preventing that from being the case.
[2:20:15] The short-term rental order.
[2:20:17] I don't think that was how they were originally originally envisioned.
[2:20:22] So the ADUs can be used as short-term rentals or as long-term rentals either one.
[2:20:29] The only stipulation on short-term rentals is that the owner of the property of the short-term rental has to reside in town.
[2:20:43] There's other requirements as well. There's a whole list on our website of the requirements.
[2:20:50] But what you're talking about is that owners living either on the property or in the town and the code is written that they have to reside in town.
[2:21:01] But I think what you're getting at isn't the purpose that we're even encouraging it is to develop lower cost housing.
[2:21:08] And if it's being used for short-term rentals, that's just goes, exactly.
[2:21:12] They're not all being used as short-term rentals.
[2:21:14] I mean, we can't, you know, like the encouraging of A to use is to increase the number of units and A to use are typically smaller, so they're, they either do, they do, you know, they do lots of things, you can rent them for less expensive, let for less, you can use them as short-term rental to increase your, your ability to stay in your home longer.
[2:21:43] You can move into the ADU and rent out your primary house.
[2:21:50] It allows for all kinds of different scenarios that people may want or need over time.
[2:22:01] It's an additional housing type.
[2:22:06] scattered throughout town over time, so we're not going to have, you know,
[2:22:13] like, an entire
[2:22:14] neighborhood of ADUs built all at once.
[2:22:18] What do you want to mean in town?
[2:22:20] A original town is being rebuilt as a neighborhood where everybody has an ADU actually.
[2:22:25] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:26] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:27] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:28] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:28] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:31] There are a lot of them.
[2:22:36] rentals and not all of them are long-term rentals and not all of them are rentals at all.
[2:22:42] No, all of them are occupied.
[2:22:43] Correct.
[2:22:46] So, this is just the grand that we received is to encourage the development of ADUs,
[2:22:54] so to help people understand to help people build ADUs.
[2:23:00] So there's three different prongs to the grant that we received.
[2:23:06] One of them is to create pre-approved plans for ADUs.
[2:23:12] So that if someone wants to build an ADU, they can use a pre-approved plan
[2:23:19] so that their review fees are reduced.
[2:23:25] The grant will also look at incentives for building adios.
[2:23:36] Do we reduce fees for development like development fees?
[2:23:42] Do we reduce fees if they're accessible or visible or affordable in some way?
[2:23:52] Um,
[2:23:55] the grant can be like they'll look out all of these different options.
[2:23:59] It's like it will be like a best practices before we make any decisions, um, but it's
[2:24:04] kind of an information gathering and the grant provides funding, both for the looking
[2:24:12] into what makes sense for the town and providing those incentives over for a certain amount
[2:24:19] of time.
[2:24:20] And then the town can determine what makes sense to carry on into the future.
[2:24:30] But the hope is that it kind of spurs those ADU developments in places and also helps people
[2:24:39] who may have ADUs that are on permitted bring them into conformance with the codes so that
[2:24:46] we know where ADUs exist.
[2:24:52] It seems to be in keeping with the town's intentions.
[2:24:57] That's right.
[2:25:03] So, those are the three grants that we have been approved for next year that our planning department led that you'll likely find interesting and have comments and want to participate in in some way, shape or form.
[2:25:26] Once we're done with the comprehensive plan of course, and then all of these are carryovers
[2:25:35] from last year, I think.
[2:25:40] Yes.
[2:25:40] The only thing I have to wonder about putting those out of the way we did any often, did we?
[2:25:50] The more so far we've resumed some old town properties to help
[2:26:04] work with town staff
[2:26:05] to develop recommendations for the town council to act or revise criteria and land use
[2:26:11] code.
[2:26:13] I just do we need to do that anymore? I don't know if we need to do this anymore. I
[2:26:19] think we've done a lot of it. We can remove it. These were just left in because I
[2:26:34] think we
[2:26:34] can keep the first bullet on. I don't know if we need the second bullet. I think that makes sense.
[2:26:39] Yeah, I think
[2:26:43] it's one of that explore opportunity.
[2:26:45] Yeah, I'm not sure, but I'm not sure whether we're going much as far as we can do that.
[2:26:50] I think that one's still good.
[2:26:54] I think we, I'm right to it.
[2:26:56] It's like a regular panel.
[2:26:58] So we're going to make your subcommittee of one to explore.
[2:27:01] Also, we work like ACES provides, you know,
[2:27:06] ACES doesn't provide to comments specifically on development proposals,
[2:27:11] But when Alexis has the ability to, like in advance of a public hearing, she'll have them review projects.
[2:27:25] And if she can't have them review projects, then she reviews projects and provides them with the comments that she provided to...
[2:27:35] We looked at that guy, we've heard a couple times with his little micro network place.
[2:27:43] Right.
[2:27:44] I think that like, it's a micro grid.
[2:27:48] Micro grid.
[2:27:48] You all want to keep the priority of sustainable construction.
[2:27:53] Then it makes sense to keep it in the work plan so that you can, you know,
[2:27:57] Just remember, remind yourself that when you're doing a development review to keep the idea of sustainable sustainability in mind.
[2:28:11] I don't know. If there's other areas that you want to include, we can add something other than sustainable construction like you know.
[2:28:20] I'm kind of worried about.
[2:28:22] One thing I'm worried about is if we,
[2:28:26] with water, Colorado River Water is going to be,
[2:28:30] I think, cut at some points,
[2:28:32] because Lake Mead Lake Palor, so low,
[2:28:36] I want to make sure that we don't approve
[2:28:39] developments, and we might not have enough water.
[2:28:43] Without having to cut usage,
[2:28:46] or have some sort of, I know we've got water conservation plans
[2:28:49] and you met or dropped management plans.
[2:28:51] I think we have that.
[2:28:54] Well, that's a future, yeah, but I mean, I guess if we can't get enough water, I
[2:28:59] mean we'll have to stop landscape irrigation.
[2:29:02] I assume that's the first step in our water drop response plan.
[2:29:07] I would be, we should be, I think, what I was suggesting for the cop plans, keep
[2:29:12] in track of our population, or what we're recommending, how what populations that lead
[2:29:19] and does that actually start to exceed the amount of water we might get in a drought year?
[2:29:26] I think we are in danger that already.
[2:29:29] So I added the word development here and then I put including, and that would be all of these things.
[2:29:38] So incentivize, encourage, and or incentivize sustainable development and construction,
[2:29:43] including water conservation, electrification, energy efficiency.
[2:29:47] How about, instead of conservation, call it, water resource availability?
[2:29:52] That's what I'm really worried about.
[2:29:53] Water resources?
[2:29:55] Yeah, that we know that.
[2:29:56] We won't have enough water delivered.
[2:29:57] We have plenty of water rights or paper rights, but...
[2:30:00] In terms of wet water, that's what I'm worried about.
[2:30:03] You're really worried about water and things, ability.
[2:30:06] Water availability, resources.
[2:30:08] Yeah, and chimney hollow, if they can fill chimney hollow, we're probably okay.
[2:30:12] Well, I don't think we have control over availability.
[2:30:16] Jim, widener and public workforce, actually.
[2:30:19] But we want to ensure that our projects for development as a planning commission.
[2:30:24] Let's take into consideration water resources or water conservation or like something like that
[2:30:34] like we're not going to we we if Jim says we have water then we have water but we should
[2:30:44] consider how our developments that are being proposed help us conserve the water that we can't
[2:30:51] Right? So I think that saying water resources or water conservation or something along those
[2:31:01] mech lines makes more sense for planning commission.
[2:31:07] I'm just worried we're going to overextend
[2:31:10] ourselves and with the way things are going with the river. I lived through seven years of drought
[2:31:16] California, and we all got rock, rock,
[2:31:19] lawns. So I think the people will be fine. The lawns might be done.
[2:31:24] Well, I think that's important. I think that's important. Yeah, I was going to say.
[2:31:32] Well, number 0.5 and then including water resources.
[2:31:36] We're looking at developments. The great.
[2:31:40] Okay.
[2:31:42] And do you have any comments or questions?
[2:31:45] No, I don't, no, I don't, I don't, I don't think so.
[2:31:50] Okay.
[2:31:52] He's all look good.
[2:31:55] Yes, okay.
[2:31:56] Really, dude?
[2:31:58] It's saved.
[2:31:59] We, I saved.
[2:32:02] Except changes too, I don't do that.
[2:32:04] Yeah.
[2:32:05] I think you got track change.
[2:32:06] I think you got better.
[2:32:08] Oh, yeah.
[2:32:14] There we go.
[2:32:15] Save.
[2:32:16] Okay.
[2:32:18] Great.
[2:32:26] I didn't put this in. Do we have to adopt the work plan? Or do we have to recommend approval
[2:32:33] of the work plan? I think you all should. Yeah, I do too.
[2:32:42] I don't think we actually have to
[2:32:44] vote on it. I think we could just have a voice suit. Anybody object to it? I'm just hearing
[2:32:50] No objections.
[2:32:52] I hope you have here to get all lines.
[2:32:54] Yeah, hands-on line.
[2:32:55] Yes.
[2:32:56] All right.
[2:32:57] So we're going to, do you want to say,
[2:32:59] also do a first and first and second?
[2:33:04] All right.
[2:33:05] Amanda says first.
[2:33:07] Second.
[2:33:08] OK, make.
[2:33:10] OK.
[2:33:11] Chairman Harper?
[2:33:11] Yes.
[2:33:14] Commissioner Vaughan?
[2:33:15] Yes.
[2:33:18] Commissioner Barnes?
[2:33:19] Yes.
[2:33:21] Commissioner Mojo?
[2:33:22] Yes.
[2:33:22] Commissioner Shanahan. Yes, and I think Steve's gone, so that but we still have a quorum. So done.
[2:33:32] Woohoo!
[2:33:33] Five, close to it.
[2:33:35] Um, and then the last, oh yeah, go ahead. You're up.
[2:33:43] I'm, I'm, yes.
[2:33:45] Is this because Lonnie is leaving or we've usually done this.
[2:33:49] I don't mind doing it tonight, but I've usually done it in January.
[2:33:52] We can do it in January if you want to wait until after the new year.
[2:33:59] I know we usually wait Lonnie has gone, but as long as you're going to be here in January we can wait till January.
[2:34:07] And then hopefully we'll have more folks here.
[2:34:12] I think that makes sense.
[2:34:17] What if we just nominate the people who are not here?
[2:34:26] All right, so we'll postpone
[2:34:32] that.
[2:34:35] I did not create an updates slide because this was a very long meeting and I just
[2:34:40] gave you a lot of updates about grants that we have coming next year and the timeline
[2:34:48] for the comprehensive plan. Our next meeting is scheduled for January 20th. That will be the comprehensive plan.
[2:35:00] Kind of final draft draft that you'll be recommending approval for, or not, and asking more questions, we'll see where we get to at that time, but either way, we will be meeting on January 20th to talk about the comprehensive plan.
[2:35:19] And anything else that comes between now and then that I am not thinking of at this moment.
[2:35:24] Are there any developments coming?
[2:35:28] Are there any new developments for those?
[2:35:30] Um, we have a concept plan that I'll email you about going to council on the 12th January,
[2:35:43] for the hairius.
[2:35:45] For the hairius?
[2:35:47] Yes.
[2:35:49] So, I'll send that to you and you're welcome to come and listen when they come to do their concept discussion.
[2:35:58] So, there's no comment per se, it's more of a discussion.
[2:36:09] Is it being presented by a developer?
[2:36:13] And just out of curiosity, have you heard anything more about Bixby's folly?
[2:36:19] Um, not other than they're still working on financing, but they are still planning on coming.
[2:36:26] Okay.
[2:36:27] And is there any progress on the food wall in the marketplace?
[2:36:32] Yeah, oh, yes.
[2:36:33] We have an application.
[2:36:36] It is under review.
[2:36:37] We owe comments by the end of the month.
[2:36:40] So, that is moving forward, officially have development plans under review.
[2:36:48] Might that be an action item in January then?
[2:36:54] Probably, well, maybe January 20th, we'll see.
[2:36:59] It'll be close.
[2:36:59] If it's not January for sure, be February.
[2:37:03] I'd like to say it'll be January, but that makes it move really quickly, and I don't...
[2:37:10] The holidays.
[2:37:11] Yeah, the holidays.
[2:37:13] We are comments aren't due until the end of this month, that would leave them a short
[2:37:18] period of turnover to respond to comments before sending us back something and us making
[2:37:24] a determination and getting it out for all of the notices that are required.
[2:37:30] So my guess is we might have to have meeting the first, first meeting in February for
[2:37:39] depending on the timeline and what their turn around is on comments and all. There's a lot
[2:37:45] of depending on for that. But it is coming. So January, February, sometime.
[2:37:58] I hope Big Streets can get their financing results. I mean, you guys should see them get started.
[2:38:02] Wouldn't that be wonderful? It would be really great.
[2:38:09] Do we have any more updates?
[2:38:11] I don't think so.
[2:38:13] Oh good.
[2:38:14] We're a gentleman.
[2:38:16] Thanks, Maria.
[2:38:17] Thanks, Ian.
[2:38:19] Thanks.
[2:38:19] Bye.