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>> All right today is Tuesday July 28th 7:09 p.m.

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Calling today's meeting into order madam clerk

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if you'll take the roll please.

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[Roll call]

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[Vice Mayor absent]

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>> Mayor you have a quorum.

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If you'll lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance please.

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>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States

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of America and to the Republic for which it stands,

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one nation under God, indivisible,

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with liberty and justice for all.

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>> Item two a presentation of fiscal year 2027 budget

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and proposed operating millage rate.

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Mr. Manager.

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>> Thank you mayor.

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If I can have our budget manager come up we've prepared a quick ,

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we've prepared a presentation on you on the budget but a quick

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summary or what the staff is requesting.

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Tonight is about setting the millage rate cap or ceiling,

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this is where the commission during your September budget

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hearings will not be able to go above.

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Staff is currently recommending keeping it

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flat at 3.883 for that ceiling.

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But we have the presentation for you if you can come up please.

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>> Okay I'm gonna start with a quick recap on the budget

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principles.

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So the principles are ensure compliance with policy statutes

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and contractual obligations of the town.

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It supports building and maintaining infrastructure,

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for the community in the long term.

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It establishes spending authorization,

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safeguards reserves to save financially sound,

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so when our audits are done we have a good financial basis

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and we come up with a clean opinion on our audits.

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And the budget should be transparent affordable

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and sustainable.

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The elements of the budget the financial document

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used to protect future revenues and expenses

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for fiscal year time period.

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It's a roadmap to carry out the Town Commission's objectives

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and strategies.

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Revenues are based on property appraiser

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values and the military and our state and local estimates

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for the General fund.

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Expenses expenditures are based on specific needs and services.

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We try to maintain reserves and funding for capital program

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and the fiscal year starts on October 1st of every year

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and that's on September 30th.

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On the budget calendar today is our meeting

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to discuss the military to advertise on the trim notice.

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That'll be a cap, that's today's meeting and on August 4th

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by August 4th we need to provide the information to the property

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appraiser so that can be advertised on the trim notice

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which goes out around mid-August to the 20 something of August.

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We have a first public hearing on the budget and the military

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for September 8th 5:01 p.m.

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And the second and final hearing on September 22nd at 501.

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The budget that the town's budget

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is based on several funds.

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The compliments of the General Fund which is General Government

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operations.

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We have special revenue funds which is recreation and culture.

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We have the building services and transportation.

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We have the Capital Projects fund.

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Enterprise funds which is our water sewage

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funds our stormwater funds solid waste and parking.

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And then we have an internal service fund just

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called Fleet Management Fund which

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we use to maintain and replace our vehicles.

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Tonight we'll be discussing basically the general fund.

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So revenues from the general fund

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are mainly protecting 27 million in revenues.

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Our revenues are mainly from ad valorem taxes.

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That's 78% and then we have franchise fees

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and some other intergovernmental revenues.

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Our budget is based on 24.8 million

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in projected expenditures.

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The majority of it goes to public safety, then

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general government and parks and recreation

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then physical environment and we have

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11% going to transfer to enterprise funds.

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The budget, the proposed budget that you

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have would return 2.4 million to general fund reserves.

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Operating expenditures are 21.5 and 3.1 million

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would go to transfer to the enterprise funds.

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These are components of our General Fund revenue.

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In dollar value.

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As you can see it's mainly 21 million

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would be from ad valorem revenues.

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We would not be using any fund balance to balance the budget

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and we would have an excess which

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we would return to reserves.

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This is the chart is the same as basically the first slide

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that we went through.

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78% of our revenues for the general fund

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are made up of ad valorem revenues.

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And our expenditures these are expenditures in dollar values.

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Between public safety and general government,

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that's the major portion of what our general fund

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expenditures are.

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We would be transferring out $3,065,000,

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2.5 million would be to provide funding for a Steward project

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or Steward projects I'm sorry stormwater projects that we need

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to work on.

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And then balance of 565, 565,000 would be to balance the water

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and sewer fund.

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Until we complete our rate studies.

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Okay so we have a funding policy base

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and based on the funding policy, the amount

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that we would need to fund, it's a target

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we're striving to fund a target for 2027.

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Would be approximately $12.6 million

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for committed reserves for operations and maintenance.

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Then we have a hurricane and disaster reserve.

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A budget stabilization reserve and a capital reserve.

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Those combined, for fiscal 2027 be it 12.6 million

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which means we would increase those reserves by $1.4 million.

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Balance is returning to unassigned fund balance would be

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$950,000.

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We've budgeted that we would have total return to reserves

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of two point 2,000,003 82111.

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And that's based on a millage rate of 3.8743.

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Just a little lower than the current millage rate.

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For property values and millage rates.

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So we have a small jump at 6.2% increase in our property values.

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That's mainly attributable to the existing properties.

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Not new construction.

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You'll see the same information.

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This is over what properties the increases are

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and you can see it's mainly driven by the condominium

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buildings.

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Any property that's in the condominium buildings.

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Okay the adjustable value on the,

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so the adjustable value is basically it's like market

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value.

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Then we have what's called the taxable value so that's

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after homesteaded properties and only the 10% increase

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on non homesteaded properties.

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So for the tax above, just values

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the condominiums are 59% of the value

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but when it comes to their taxable value

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they end up being 67% of our tax roll.

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And the single family section is 25%

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of the just value which is sort of like a market value.

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But when it comes to factoring in homesteads

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that percentage goes down to 19%.

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Taxable values and the millage rates

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so you see over ten years how the military has come down.

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Gone all the way from 4.8 we're currently at 3.8830.

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And the budget is based on 3.8743.

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And then the property a -- where do tax dollars go?

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So 21% goes to server side.

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36% goes to the school board and 40% of your property taxes

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go to state county 4% goes to state funding.

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So the majority of your taxes go to the school board

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and Dade County and only 21% ends up going to Surfside.

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Get to the millage rates and tax revenue.

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So we're currently in an adopted rate of 3.8830.

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We've prepared the budget based on a rate of 3.8743.

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And our rollback rate is 3.5221.

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And you'll see the revenues that are generated

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by those different rates are current rates would generate

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1.967 million, the proposed budget

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was prepared based on an increase of 1.919.

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Almost 1.92.

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And the rollback rate would mean no increase in taxes.

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The various rates depend on voting.

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The voting that's required.

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So if we were voting for the 3.8830 we would need a unanimous

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vote.

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The proposed rate of 3.8743 we would need four votes

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of the governing body.

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And the rollback rate would require three votes

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which is a majority vote.

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So today we're going to determine what the capital would

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be for the trim notice and once you've

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advertised on the trim notice, it's

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really setting the ceiling you can't go down

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so you could go down afterwards but you can't go up.

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Go above that rate.

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Based on the budget was prepared based on the 10% tax increase.

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Over the rollback rate.

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And then this is just how much each millage rate is worth.

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So every one millage is worth 5.4 or 5 $4 million of revenue.

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I think that's it.

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Okay tonight's staff is only seeking guidance

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on a millage cap.

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And recommended millage cap that exists,

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existing military at 3.8830 mills although we are building

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the budget on a military of 3.8743. --

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on a millage rate of 3.8743.

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>> All right thank you Andrea.

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Any questions?

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Can we get a motion on the table for reopen to public comment?

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>> Make a move for a motion for (Indistinct)

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>> Can we get a motion for the item to move proceed --

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>> Yeah.

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So moved.

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>> What's the motion?

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>> Motion to proceed with the rate I believe we could get this

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to 3.8743 as our cap.

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I just wanted feedback from town staff if that's something that

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we feel we could --

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>> Commissioner.

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Yeah you can set the cap at 38743 should you wish.

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We always recommend going a little bit above that

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simply because we're maintaining a flat millage

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rate so that you have flexibility and discussion.

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As you start getting into your meetings in September

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if you're talking about more projects or different levels

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of service or anything like that, if you do not

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have any wiggle room because you set the millage too low,

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then you're not going to be able to kind of move.

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So all staff is building the budget

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at a lower millage rate than what's existing,

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for the ceiling we recommend at least keeping it flat so

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that you have that buffer.

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You're talking about , how much is it?

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Is it about 50?

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Okay.

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So 50,000, if you want to set it at the 38743 that's what

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we're building the budget at anyways.

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You'll be fine with that.

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I would just recommend whatever cap you have,

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just realize that you will not be able to go above it.

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The good thing is that Surfside is in a really good

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financial position.

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In other places during the special hearings

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commissioners would ask well we want this

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and we want more of this and we want more of that

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and my response is do you want to raise the millage?

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Because there was no room but you

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guys are in a really good healthy position so setting it

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at the, and where we're building the budget is perfectly fine.

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>> Okay with that I'm comfortable pushing us to be

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fiscally responsible and to drive out that end cap there.

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I think it's a good start for a new commission

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and I make a motion to proceed with the 3.874.

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>> 3.8743 just for --

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>> 3.874.

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>> I'll second it we'll open it up to public comment

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and we'll come back to this.

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>> First speaker Commissioner Richard.

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>> Marianne Mashhad.

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9225 Collins Avenue.

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Surfside.

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So unless there's something I'm not aware of, I recommend

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keeping it at the 3.8830.

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Thank you.

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>> Thank you Commissioner.

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Michael Carrickun.

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>> Michael Carrick 9565 Abbott.

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So must be nice to be flush with all this cash.

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Just to put it in perspective, the first budget I worked on

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in 2010 for the fiscal year 2011,

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the total revenue from ad valorem taxes was 5 million.

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Now it's 20 million.

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There was a good graph over there

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so you saw the high millage rate actually brought

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in very little amount of money.

261
00:19:08,806 --> 00:19:09,567
Back then.

262
00:19:09,567 --> 00:19:16,167
The total amount of resort tax revenue in 2011 was a whopping

263
00:19:16,629 --> 00:19:17,612
250 000.

264
00:19:17,612 --> 00:19:21,409
Now it's I think 6 million something like that.

265
00:19:21,409 --> 00:19:24,457
So anyway my point is I sent everyone an email,

266
00:19:24,457 --> 00:19:27,895
I know that you're not going to go line by line tonight.

267
00:19:27,895 --> 00:19:31,111
So please take it if you have any questions about,

268
00:19:31,111 --> 00:19:34,887
the depth of information that I provided please don't hesitate

269
00:19:34,887 --> 00:19:36,549
to reach out to me.

270
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:41,949
A couple of points, I want to make sure

271
00:19:42,127 --> 00:19:45,127
that everyone understands that the,

272
00:19:45,487 --> 00:19:48,487
there's liabilities associated with increasing the headcount.

273
00:19:48,487 --> 00:19:50,640
I know this particular budget still

274
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:52,527
has the CEO or chief of staff position

275
00:19:52,527 --> 00:19:54,527
I think you guys eliminated that already.

276
00:19:54,527 --> 00:19:58,727
I don't know if you did or not but I think you should.

277
00:19:58,727 --> 00:20:02,935
There is also a lot of clarity that's

278
00:20:02,935 --> 00:20:04,237
needed around the new building.

279
00:20:04,237 --> 00:20:06,637
For the building department.

280
00:20:07,767 --> 00:20:12,847
I also wanted to point out that the building Services

281
00:20:12,847 --> 00:20:16,447
department might be right for outsourcing based

282
00:20:16,447 --> 00:20:22,327
on the fluctuating and variable workload over the next five

283
00:20:22,327 --> 00:20:23,290
years or so.

284
00:20:23,290 --> 00:20:26,833
I don't know if that's a smart to actually bring in full time

285
00:20:26,833 --> 00:20:30,300
people for all of that because when you bring in full time

286
00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:31,967
as everyone knows there's a lot more

287
00:20:31,967 --> 00:20:33,795
liabilities associated with that.

288
00:20:33,795 --> 00:20:37,940
So again I'm not going to get into too many details here

289
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:42,140
I support the 3.8743 thank you very much.

290
00:20:43,470 --> 00:20:44,247
>> Thank you.

291
00:20:44,247 --> 00:20:46,247
Mr..

292
00:20:51,806 --> 00:20:57,767
>> Jeff Somper 8827 Emerson the budget is bloated but that's not

293
00:20:57,767 --> 00:21:04,700
your fault. It's a situation that has developed over at least

294
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:05,527
ten years.

295
00:21:05,527 --> 00:21:09,727
It's not unusual when money comes in.

296
00:21:10,131 --> 00:21:14,331
Additional money comes in to spend it.

297
00:21:15,457 --> 00:21:18,731
What I recommend is because it's not

298
00:21:18,731 --> 00:21:21,793
going to be able to be done between now and September

299
00:21:21,793 --> 00:21:25,487
when you have to approve a budget.

300
00:21:25,487 --> 00:21:32,319
Is that a deep dive be done on the budget with each

301
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:36,940
of the departments I don't know whether you'd

302
00:21:36,940 --> 00:21:41,573
want to use the Budget committee or something like that

303
00:21:41,573 --> 00:21:46,940
or how you would like to hire an outside consultant to sit down

304
00:21:46,940 --> 00:21:50,870
and go through line item by line item

305
00:21:50,870 --> 00:21:56,870
find out what exactly is done in operations of each department.

306
00:21:56,870 --> 00:22:02,870
Because Surfside has not grown, we're still a mile square.

307
00:22:04,831 --> 00:22:07,740
We're still close to the same population.

308
00:22:07,740 --> 00:22:13,140
As it has been for the last ten years.

309
00:22:13,487 --> 00:22:17,447
There are many things that have increased in cost.

310
00:22:17,447 --> 00:22:19,447
Pension health care.

311
00:22:20,897 --> 00:22:24,393
Salaries have had to increase because of inflation.

312
00:22:24,393 --> 00:22:29,127
But not to the extent that if you look at the budget numbers

313
00:22:29,127 --> 00:22:35,389
from ten years ago and look at them now, that you can say that

314
00:22:35,389 --> 00:22:39,607
there is not bloat and excess in the budget.

315
00:22:39,607 --> 00:22:43,255
So I think you need to take a hard look at it.

316
00:22:43,255 --> 00:22:44,797
Have somebody take a hard look at it.

317
00:22:44,797 --> 00:22:50,197
Because you don't have the time to do so.

318
00:22:55,751 --> 00:22:57,687
>> Please double check on that thank you.

319
00:22:57,687 --> 00:22:59,687
>> Thank you.

320
00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,407
>> All right thank you everybody for your comments

321
00:23:04,407 --> 00:23:06,811
and your feedback Mr. Zumper when I hear you won't be

322
00:23:06,811 --> 00:23:08,228
on the Budget Committee in August.

323
00:23:08,228 --> 00:23:10,421
We don't have quorum yet we would

324
00:23:10,421 --> 00:23:13,847
love to have your eyes on it this month but.

325
00:23:13,847 --> 00:23:15,431
Thanks for your input.

326
00:23:15,431 --> 00:23:17,547
Tonight I'm just going to remind everybody tonight

327
00:23:17,547 --> 00:23:19,607
is just about setting the cap right?

328
00:23:19,607 --> 00:23:22,150
We are going to spend the next two months still going

329
00:23:22,150 --> 00:23:25,687
through this budget, there's still a lot to look at.

330
00:23:25,687 --> 00:23:27,743
But we want to set our cap tonight.

331
00:23:27,743 --> 00:23:29,527
That's the requirement that we have to do.

332
00:23:29,527 --> 00:23:32,170
We want to be responsible and not limit ourselves.

333
00:23:32,170 --> 00:23:34,290
That's all we're here to do tonight.

334
00:23:34,290 --> 00:23:35,700
So we have a motion unless there's

335
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,807
a need for further discussion we can call the roll?

336
00:23:39,807 --> 00:23:43,647
>> I very much share Commissioner Wingard's goal

337
00:23:43,647 --> 00:23:45,770
of getting to a number like 3.8743.

338
00:23:45,770 --> 00:23:51,170
But I do, I'm inclined to support the staff's

339
00:23:53,487 --> 00:23:57,591
recommendation which was also made by Commissioner Mic'd just

340
00:23:57,591 --> 00:24:00,743
having done this before you just never know,

341
00:24:00,743 --> 00:24:04,116
and voting tonight to lower the taxes versus voting in September

342
00:24:04,116 --> 00:24:06,241
makes absolutely no difference in what anybody ever

343
00:24:06,241 --> 00:24:08,127
pays I want to make sure that's clear.

344
00:24:08,127 --> 00:24:10,647
All of this is effective next year.

345
00:24:10,647 --> 00:24:13,423
So it's just a question of whether we leave ourselves

346
00:24:13,423 --> 00:24:15,471
that bit of wiggle room.

347
00:24:15,471 --> 00:24:18,913
But I would rather us say agree that we

348
00:24:18,913 --> 00:24:23,303
want to get to 3.8743 in September and make that a goal.

349
00:24:23,303 --> 00:24:26,360
The budget is in fact built on that goal

350
00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:28,153
so it shouldn't be too hard.

351
00:24:28,153 --> 00:24:31,559
But I think just out of prudence you never know,

352
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:33,967
nothing really is gained tonight by lowering

353
00:24:33,967 --> 00:24:36,967
the military e millage rate.

354
00:24:39,991 --> 00:24:43,956
It seems like a show to lower taxes I want to do it anyway

355
00:24:43,956 --> 00:24:45,331
but I want to do it in September.

356
00:24:45,331 --> 00:24:48,177
I think we should go with the manager's recommendation.

357
00:24:48,177 --> 00:24:51,871
And stick with the current rate for the trim notice.

358
00:24:51,871 --> 00:24:56,671
Again, I have every intention of getting to 3.8743

359
00:24:56,993 --> 00:25:02,993
at the next meeting it doesn't make a practical difference.

360
00:25:04,918 --> 00:25:09,718
>> Yeah just Segway to what Commissioner Valdosta was

361
00:25:11,247 --> 00:25:13,247
saying.

362
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:21,887
I mean I tend to sort of try to give myself the ability

363
00:25:25,870 --> 00:25:30,487
to decide what I want to do based on ,

364
00:25:34,831 --> 00:25:37,639
like what could be reasonable from a military standpoint which

365
00:25:37,639 --> 00:25:41,120
would be like keeping the same rate.

366
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:48,320
I don't know if we're going to get to a practical --

367
00:25:48,687 --> 00:25:51,633
I don't think actually, I we're not

368
00:25:51,633 --> 00:25:53,641
going to get a particular advantage

369
00:25:53,641 --> 00:25:57,235
if we're going to set a lower millage rate tonight.

370
00:25:57,235 --> 00:25:59,730
From now in September you know we'll

371
00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:02,869
be talking about many things during our budget workshop right

372
00:26:02,869 --> 00:26:06,492
like we want to do this, we want to do that.

373
00:26:06,492 --> 00:26:08,383
And things that ultimately are going

374
00:26:08,383 --> 00:26:10,180
to be vetted by the community.

375
00:26:10,180 --> 00:26:14,536
So I want to make sure that this is ,

376
00:26:14,536 --> 00:26:15,869
that everybody understands that.

377
00:26:15,869 --> 00:26:22,469
So that the idea is not to waste money absolutely not.

378
00:26:23,207 --> 00:26:26,967
We want to lower taxes as much as possible.

379
00:26:26,967 --> 00:26:30,997
But at the same time we want to listen to the community

380
00:26:30,997 --> 00:26:34,207
and give the services that the community think that we

381
00:26:34,207 --> 00:26:36,870
should have in Surfside.

382
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:39,864
So that's why if we want to do that,

383
00:26:39,864 --> 00:26:45,264
and we keep thinking about that, then maybe leaving 3.883

384
00:26:46,383 --> 00:26:51,604
would give us an extra 50 K which is not a lot.

385
00:26:51,604 --> 00:26:52,701
But still.

386
00:26:52,701 --> 00:26:56,301
A little bit of wiggle room.

387
00:26:57,870 --> 00:27:01,131
I don't feel strongly about it, I mean at the end of the day

388
00:27:01,131 --> 00:27:04,887
with this commission we're going to settle for 3.8743.

389
00:27:04,887 --> 00:27:10,127
Like I said it's just 50 K. It doesn't change it that much.

390
00:27:10,127 --> 00:27:12,127
However, you know.

391
00:27:12,671 --> 00:27:15,833
The final decision is going to be in September

392
00:27:15,833 --> 00:27:19,433
so it's just a limit now.

393
00:27:22,110 --> 00:27:24,553
Mayor Danzinger: I just want to say I've seen this commission

394
00:27:24,553 --> 00:27:27,770
spend almost $300,000 with less of a discussion

395
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:28,799
and we're talking about $50,000.

396
00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:31,247
So this is boggling my mind I don't know

397
00:27:31,247 --> 00:27:32,975
if there's another purpose.

398
00:27:32,975 --> 00:27:37,353
I just want to say two years ago we were at $15 million spending

399
00:27:37,353 --> 00:27:38,633
close to 16.

400
00:27:38,633 --> 00:27:41,518
We're at 21 now the town is asking for that's

401
00:27:41,518 --> 00:27:42,847
a lot of growth in two years.

402
00:27:42,847 --> 00:27:46,267
So I am not passing a 3.87 budget I

403
00:27:46,267 --> 00:27:48,820
expect us to bring a lot lower.

404
00:27:48,820 --> 00:27:51,330
Because yes there's a lot of revenue coming in

405
00:27:51,330 --> 00:27:53,103
but unless we can articulate during my time

406
00:27:53,103 --> 00:27:55,103
with that 15 million we built three parks,

407
00:27:55,103 --> 00:27:57,747
we did the Dune resiliency we did project after project

408
00:27:57,747 --> 00:27:58,807
after project.

409
00:27:58,807 --> 00:28:01,700
So I think there's a lot of room in again

410
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:04,660
we have two months to figure out where this money is going.

411
00:28:04,660 --> 00:28:06,309
And how a lot of these departments

412
00:28:06,309 --> 00:28:07,892
I don't know how many of you have gone

413
00:28:07,892 --> 00:28:09,807
live I know by a line item yet in the budget

414
00:28:09,807 --> 00:28:12,133
and how I don't want to use bloat is the wrong word

415
00:28:12,133 --> 00:28:16,243
but how those numbers have exceeded in the last two years.

416
00:28:16,243 --> 00:28:18,355
And I ran on fiscal responsibility

417
00:28:18,355 --> 00:28:20,397
and I'm going to be there so to say that I'm just

418
00:28:20,397 --> 00:28:22,543
going to adopt the same number as last year is completely

419
00:28:22,543 --> 00:28:23,430
wrong.

420
00:28:23,430 --> 00:28:25,373
And I don't know again why we're going

421
00:28:25,373 --> 00:28:27,967
in circles on less than a percentage of a point.

422
00:28:27,967 --> 00:28:30,367
>> It's just an opinion.

423
00:28:31,247 --> 00:28:35,140
>> I mean my suggestion was we informally agree among ourselves

424
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:37,107
that the goal is to get it down.

425
00:28:37,107 --> 00:28:39,681
Which we all agree we all want to be

426
00:28:39,681 --> 00:28:43,191
the politician who cuts taxes nobody's disagreeing about that.

427
00:28:43,191 --> 00:28:47,340
It's just, to the mayor's question he's asking

428
00:28:47,340 --> 00:28:51,599
what is the reason the reason is that our fundamental goal here

429
00:28:51,599 --> 00:28:54,895
should be prudence not sort of a soundbite.

430
00:28:54,895 --> 00:28:55,927
Tomorrow.

431
00:28:55,927 --> 00:28:58,231
And just in the interest of prudence nothing

432
00:28:58,231 --> 00:29:01,977
is lost by staying with the current tax rate.

433
00:29:01,977 --> 00:29:04,377
Some scenario is foreclosed.

434
00:29:05,471 --> 00:29:08,670
And I just think our obligation is

435
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:10,247
to be the most prudent tonight.

436
00:29:10,247 --> 00:29:12,180
Than in September we can all cut taxes

437
00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:13,887
and we can say we cut taxes.

438
00:29:13,887 --> 00:29:17,479
So I would opt for again, because I

439
00:29:17,479 --> 00:29:19,687
don't feel this proposal is really considered.

440
00:29:19,687 --> 00:29:22,407
We informally agree that that's what we're going to go.

441
00:29:22,407 --> 00:29:25,470
But then we still vote for the current rates

442
00:29:25,470 --> 00:29:27,927
just to give the staff and everybody wiggle room.

443
00:29:27,927 --> 00:29:30,273
Mayor Danzinger: So there's a great line

444
00:29:30,273 --> 00:29:31,751
item becomes a role when action is

445
00:29:31,751 --> 00:29:33,607
taken towards its achievement.

446
00:29:33,607 --> 00:29:36,882
>> And the best time to start doing something better is now

447
00:29:36,882 --> 00:29:39,900
so this isn't for a sound bite if I need a sound bite

448
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:40,231
I'll create one.

449
00:29:40,231 --> 00:29:42,435
Everyone's over on the record.

450
00:29:42,435 --> 00:29:44,327
And everyone can hear it.

451
00:29:44,327 --> 00:29:46,863
But this is about setting a precedent

452
00:29:46,863 --> 00:29:50,567
and if it's our first budget and we've heard from town staff

453
00:29:50,567 --> 00:29:53,578
that we're in a good place here.

454
00:29:53,578 --> 00:29:59,578
And my motion was to get into action right away.

455
00:30:00,383 --> 00:30:02,527
Being fiscally responsible and even

456
00:30:02,527 --> 00:30:05,470
though it's just a small amount but that's one step.

457
00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:06,667
And that's that the precedent and how

458
00:30:06,667 --> 00:30:08,470
we're going to move forward.

459
00:30:08,470 --> 00:30:10,447
>> Thank you Madam clerk.

460
00:30:10,807 --> 00:30:12,807
>> Commissioner Giovanni?

461
00:30:13,807 --> 00:30:19,470
>> We need four votes or three to pass on the three?

462
00:30:19,470 --> 00:30:22,867
>> That's entirely different that's when you --

463
00:30:22,867 --> 00:30:25,233
that's in December. --

464
00:30:25,233 --> 00:30:26,807
September.

465
00:30:26,807 --> 00:30:29,465
Tonight you need a majority to set the millage that's

466
00:30:29,465 --> 00:30:31,465
all you're doing.

467
00:30:41,402 --> 00:30:43,567
Commissioner Travani: It's 50 K. Yes.

468
00:30:43,567 --> 00:30:45,295
>> Commissioner.

469
00:30:45,295 --> 00:30:48,607
Again I share the goal of lowering

470
00:30:48,607 --> 00:30:51,727
the taxes per field tonight we need to be prudent so no.

471
00:30:51,727 --> 00:30:53,727
>> Commissioner Weingart.

472
00:30:54,527 --> 00:30:56,527
>> Yes.

473
00:30:56,927 --> 00:30:58,927
>> Vice mayor Birnberg?

474
00:31:01,527 --> 00:31:04,527
>> (Indistinct) yes it's a yes.

475
00:31:04,807 --> 00:31:06,807
>> Mayor Danzinger?

476
00:31:07,527 --> 00:31:09,527
>> Yes.

477
00:31:09,927 --> 00:31:11,927
>> The motion carries.

478
00:31:12,847 --> 00:31:15,680
>> I think it needs to be charged.

479
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:18,680
This is the new one.

480
00:31:18,807 --> 00:31:20,353
Don't worry.

481
00:31:20,353 --> 00:31:23,953
You guys want to be (Indistinct).

482
00:31:29,111 --> 00:31:31,220
>> All right moving on to item three a.

483
00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:33,397
Approval of revised drawing of the scope of the Champlain

484
00:31:33,397 --> 00:31:35,580
Towers CTS Memorial madam clerk if you

485
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:38,447
read the title of the resolution into the record please.

486
00:31:38,447 --> 00:31:41,382
>> A resolution of the Town Commission of the town

487
00:31:41,382 --> 00:31:43,715
of Surfside Florida approving revised drawings and scope

488
00:31:43,715 --> 00:31:45,717
of work for the Champlain Towers South Memorial authorizing

489
00:31:45,717 --> 00:31:47,872
the Town Manager to negotiate and finalize a contract

490
00:31:47,872 --> 00:31:50,247
for construction with Schiff Construction and Development

491
00:31:50,247 --> 00:31:53,407
Inc. For the project providing for implementation and provide

492
00:31:53,407 --> 00:31:57,327
for an effective date item three eight.

493
00:31:57,327 --> 00:32:00,407
>> Thank you Mr. Manager if you introduce this item please?

494
00:32:00,407 --> 00:32:03,607
>> Yes mayor thank you very much.

495
00:32:03,607 --> 00:32:06,700
>> Is there a motion?

496
00:32:06,447 --> 00:32:10,610
>> I was going to let him introduce it two minutes to make

497
00:32:10,610 --> 00:32:11,127
a motion --

498
00:32:11,127 --> 00:32:17,127
>> Mayor so in March or prior to March we received ,

499
00:32:19,372 --> 00:32:22,247
we put out a bid and we received a total project cost

500
00:32:22,247 --> 00:32:25,550
for the memorial of over $5 million.

501
00:32:25,550 --> 00:32:27,367
With regards to the voter referendums

502
00:32:27,367 --> 00:32:32,319
that would have required a voter referendum either now

503
00:32:32,319 --> 00:32:34,275
or in August or November.

504
00:32:34,275 --> 00:32:37,475
The Commission directed staff to look at the project

505
00:32:37,475 --> 00:32:39,747
and see if we can get it below the threshold

506
00:32:39,747 --> 00:32:43,926
and the total budgeted amount is 3.55 million.

507
00:32:43,926 --> 00:32:47,526
Staff and our consultant Keith Engineering

508
00:32:48,807 --> 00:32:50,647
which we have present here who will walk you

509
00:32:50,647 --> 00:32:53,127
through the presentation, was able to take a look

510
00:32:53,127 --> 00:32:56,753
at the project and identify certain aspects of the project

511
00:32:56,753 --> 00:33:01,143
that we can split up in construction phases.

512
00:33:01,143 --> 00:33:06,470
So what is before you tonight is for the substantial contracts

513
00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:08,255
and it's substantial form.

514
00:33:08,255 --> 00:33:12,487
For approval with shift we're going to give you the update

515
00:33:12,487 --> 00:33:16,567
and then staff does need direction may be separately

516
00:33:16,567 --> 00:33:20,527
from the contractor altogether however you want to handle it.

517
00:33:20,527 --> 00:33:21,239
Mayor.

518
00:33:21,239 --> 00:33:25,807
With regards to the image on the wall itself.

519
00:33:25,807 --> 00:33:31,807
During the memorial, I had the memorial event in June.

520
00:33:33,807 --> 00:33:38,589
There were, those attending who put me aside

521
00:33:38,589 --> 00:33:41,363
for at least a good 5 to 10 minutes.

522
00:33:41,363 --> 00:33:45,670
Talking about how the image was not appropriate.

523
00:33:45,670 --> 00:33:49,687
The families did discuss this during their designs,

524
00:33:49,687 --> 00:33:53,870
the image that is there is being,

525
00:33:53,870 --> 00:33:56,870
is what their recommendation is.

526
00:33:56,127 --> 00:33:58,351
And I believe several families are

527
00:33:58,351 --> 00:34:00,893
members of the community have also reached out to some of you

528
00:34:00,893 --> 00:34:02,287
on the commission as well.

529
00:34:02,287 --> 00:34:07,132
And so seeing and hearing a lot I just

530
00:34:07,132 --> 00:34:09,671
wanted to make sure that whatever we move forward with

531
00:34:09,671 --> 00:34:11,713
is what the Commission wishes to move forward

532
00:34:11,713 --> 00:34:14,887
with so I'm asking you for direction on that as well.

533
00:34:14,887 --> 00:34:18,887
With that if I can have correct from Keith

534
00:34:18,887 --> 00:34:22,551
to just kind of walk us through to show what

535
00:34:22,551 --> 00:34:25,767
the overall update on what we faced

536
00:34:25,767 --> 00:34:30,287
for this phase of the construction project is.

537
00:34:30,287 --> 00:34:33,387
>> I'm just going to get a motion on the table and then

538
00:34:33,387 --> 00:34:38,319
we'll proceed. (Indistinct) and also I just want to reiterate

539
00:34:38,319 --> 00:34:41,487
some of the history because I think June 24th some articles

540
00:34:41,487 --> 00:34:44,286
were put out with some misinformation which is that

541
00:34:44,286 --> 00:34:46,791
this commission value engineered this project delayed

542
00:34:46,791 --> 00:34:47,759
the project.

543
00:34:47,759 --> 00:34:49,927
I think there's a referendum item

544
00:34:49,927 --> 00:34:51,840
and I forget which month it was exactly

545
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:56,639
but it was last year which the residents voted

546
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,180
to restrict the commission from spending

547
00:34:59,180 --> 00:35:01,687
I believe it was 5% of the ad valorem revenue

548
00:35:01,687 --> 00:35:05,795
which equated to roughly 3.5 million I'm going to say?

549
00:35:05,795 --> 00:35:08,647
Of the proposed budget without a referendum.

550
00:35:08,647 --> 00:35:11,291
Comes the memorial at 7.5 million

551
00:35:11,291 --> 00:35:13,791
which exceeds that amount which would require the commission

552
00:35:13,791 --> 00:35:16,730
go to the referendum by the residents.

553
00:35:16,730 --> 00:35:18,140
Obviously that would a delay the project

554
00:35:18,140 --> 00:35:19,556
but you run the risk of the residents

555
00:35:19,556 --> 00:35:20,998
saying we don't want this project

556
00:35:20,998 --> 00:35:22,779
and there goes the entire memorial we've

557
00:35:22,779 --> 00:35:24,383
been building for five years.

558
00:35:24,383 --> 00:35:26,719
So the commission, the previous commission

559
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,640
went out and had Keith Valley engineer this down to an amount

560
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,807
that the commission can authorize

561
00:35:32,807 --> 00:35:35,593
without referendum so that's what we have here today.

562
00:35:35,593 --> 00:35:37,908
As manager stated the images yes I

563
00:35:37,908 --> 00:35:40,320
get it was pushed by 1 or 2 family members.

564
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:41,887
I've been hearing a lot about it it's

565
00:35:41,887 --> 00:35:45,780
extremely I mean as a resident come on it's traumatic.

566
00:35:45,780 --> 00:35:48,984
To see a site where so many people lie dead.

567
00:35:48,984 --> 00:35:52,863
A lot of the first responders a lot of the residents a lot

568
00:35:52,863 --> 00:35:55,487
of family members (Indistinct) so it

569
00:35:55,487 --> 00:35:58,307
was a proposal for an additional this image has become iconic

570
00:35:58,307 --> 00:36:00,307
for this event.

571
00:36:01,790 --> 00:36:03,887
It signifies multiple things including

572
00:36:03,887 --> 00:36:06,373
the continuation of life the infinity sign

573
00:36:06,373 --> 00:36:07,823
that is built in there.

574
00:36:07,823 --> 00:36:10,227
It was an entire different aspect

575
00:36:10,227 --> 00:36:13,247
and that became the vision so what we have here tonight

576
00:36:13,247 --> 00:36:15,647
is a revised plan.

577
00:36:15,647 --> 00:36:19,624
Conforming to hopefully a value engineered down to the price

578
00:36:19,624 --> 00:36:20,999
that we can improve here tonight.

579
00:36:20,999 --> 00:36:22,947
With a revised design so I would ask

580
00:36:22,947 --> 00:36:26,567
for a motion to approve this with the revised design.

581
00:36:26,567 --> 00:36:32,567
>> I'll make the motion to approve and proceed with this

582
00:36:33,870 --> 00:36:36,870
project that's so important and I committed to family members

583
00:36:36,870 --> 00:36:38,513
that I've talked with that were going to get that done.

584
00:36:38,513 --> 00:36:42,870
In our commission so I ask for fellow commissioners

585
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:42,919
support their.

586
00:36:42,919 --> 00:36:45,167
And moving this along.

587
00:36:45,167 --> 00:36:46,167
Expeditiously.

588
00:36:46,167 --> 00:36:52,167
Also motion to approve the revised image of love lives

589
00:36:54,384 --> 00:36:57,343
on, it's a beautiful message, it's

590
00:36:57,343 --> 00:37:00,667
a hand from below connecting to a hand from above.

591
00:37:00,667 --> 00:37:03,607
That's remembering the past showing the future.

592
00:37:03,607 --> 00:37:08,700
So I make a motion to approve this.

593
00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:10,700
>> I'll second it.

594
00:37:10,407 --> 00:37:12,167
All right.

595
00:37:12,167 --> 00:37:14,567
Let's hear the updates.

596
00:37:15,807 --> 00:37:19,967
>> Good evening Mayor and Commissioners my name is Greg

597
00:37:19,967 --> 00:37:22,190
Cheverie I'm vice president of Keith.

598
00:37:22,190 --> 00:37:27,567
Been a pleasure working on this project with the town

599
00:37:27,567 --> 00:37:28,627
and stakeholders.

600
00:37:28,627 --> 00:37:31,358
Just wanted to give you an update

601
00:37:31,358 --> 00:37:33,962
on what the manager mentioned.

602
00:37:33,962 --> 00:37:36,657
Also you described it very well mayor.

603
00:37:36,657 --> 00:37:42,570
All the different activities and events that took place

604
00:37:42,551 --> 00:37:48,503
and how everything just resulted in this version, this latest

605
00:37:48,503 --> 00:37:51,787
iteration of the design, some of the major modifications

606
00:37:51,787 --> 00:37:56,827
that were made were to fit the project into a budget

607
00:37:56,827 --> 00:37:58,963
that could be adopted by the commission

608
00:37:58,963 --> 00:38:04,707
and also that could fit efforts needed for the contractor to do.

609
00:38:04,707 --> 00:38:10,207
What was done was this area here on the eastern side

610
00:38:10,207 --> 00:38:13,807
of the proposed memorial was scaled

611
00:38:14,527 --> 00:38:19,987
down so that this area now becomes a more green space area.

612
00:38:19,987 --> 00:38:24,787
And also there were some scaled down areas

613
00:38:25,187 --> 00:38:30,655
as well as far as some of the attributes that were again,

614
00:38:30,655 --> 00:38:34,855
tailored so it could mean project budget.

615
00:38:35,927 --> 00:38:38,287
Nevertheless, what you see before you

616
00:38:38,287 --> 00:38:44,197
is a rendering of a, the wall where we would commemorate

617
00:38:44,197 --> 00:38:50,710
or memorialize the victims as well as a waterfall feature that

618
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:53,783
would show an image in the background.

619
00:38:53,783 --> 00:39:00,383
And also a lot of landscape that would provide the experience

620
00:39:03,113 --> 00:39:07,913
that was established by stakeholders of this design

621
00:39:08,349 --> 00:39:09,307
throughout the process.

622
00:39:09,307 --> 00:39:12,527
Nevertheless at the end of it shows

623
00:39:12,527 --> 00:39:15,807
how the entrance from the Western side

624
00:39:15,807 --> 00:39:17,391
towards the eastern side would look.

625
00:39:17,391 --> 00:39:23,871
With some of the remnants that came from the building itself.

626
00:39:23,871 --> 00:39:26,973
And those will remain as part of the design.

627
00:39:26,973 --> 00:39:31,820
This is now also an eastern look from Western side.

628
00:39:31,820 --> 00:39:36,584
As to how the memorial will look as you can see,

629
00:39:36,584 --> 00:39:39,293
the area that has been modified now

630
00:39:39,293 --> 00:39:43,587
shows a view and a perspective to the ocean.

631
00:39:43,587 --> 00:39:48,177
And right now we are in the final stages

632
00:39:48,177 --> 00:39:49,993
of obtaining all permits.

633
00:39:49,993 --> 00:39:53,452
And this has been our latest iteration update

634
00:39:53,452 --> 00:39:55,367
for the Surfside Memorial.

635
00:39:55,367 --> 00:39:58,687
>> Thank you Craig and for the commission because I know we

636
00:39:58,687 --> 00:40:01,943
received an email from residents I think today or yesterday,

637
00:40:01,943 --> 00:40:08,400
Keith and the team has walked the site with Miami Dade Fire

638
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,351
Miami Dade County to make sure that there sufficient room to go

639
00:40:12,351 --> 00:40:15,811
through and any other concerns that Miami-Dade fire may have

640
00:40:15,811 --> 00:40:17,764
and we are good to go.

641
00:40:17,764 --> 00:40:21,327
We're submitting the final response to their comments

642
00:40:21,327 --> 00:40:25,100
by the end of the week and once they have that,

643
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:27,427
we should get a pretty quick turnaround for approval

644
00:40:27,427 --> 00:40:32,827
as we've already addressed in the field with them.

645
00:40:33,871 --> 00:40:35,871
>> Thank you.

646
00:40:37,167 --> 00:40:41,915
>> (Indistinct) okay so I had a bit of a question.

647
00:40:41,915 --> 00:40:44,367
Because I was checking this over today.

648
00:40:44,367 --> 00:40:47,470
Item number, I can't even see.

649
00:40:47,470 --> 00:40:51,710
Item number six I think it >> Number six?

650
00:40:51,710 --> 00:40:52,167
This area?

651
00:40:52,167 --> 00:40:54,847
>> Or maybe it's number one.

652
00:40:54,847 --> 00:40:55,887
Can scroll down.

653
00:40:55,887 --> 00:41:00,255
>> So this is on the Western side there's a memorial signage.

654
00:41:00,255 --> 00:41:05,550
And then item number six, we will have,

655
00:41:05,167 --> 00:41:10,107
these are points where we will have certain degrees of, debris

656
00:41:10,107 --> 00:41:13,700
that comes from the site itself.

657
00:41:13,700 --> 00:41:16,667
>> Craig can you scroll down so they can see the column again

658
00:41:16,667 --> 00:41:17,667
of what that looks like?

659
00:41:17,667 --> 00:41:19,450
I think it's the, there.

660
00:41:19,450 --> 00:41:21,457
This one's a good one or even at nighttime

661
00:41:21,457 --> 00:41:23,700
if you want to show it.

662
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:26,166
>> Two separate things I have an item for a column and then you

663
00:41:26,166 --> 00:41:28,833
have an item for debris so what I saw when I read that is a pile

664
00:41:28,833 --> 00:41:32,127
of debris which we're seeing now on the --

665
00:41:32,127 --> 00:41:36,427
>> So these are all these are the columns that you see

666
00:41:36,427 --> 00:41:40,870
and then inside of the columns are the chunks of the various

667
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:44,487
debris that is currently across the street from the site.

668
00:41:44,487 --> 00:41:50,267
So it's meant to memorialize the actual pieces in the columns

669
00:41:50,267 --> 00:41:53,407
as a feature that will also have light in their.

670
00:41:53,407 --> 00:41:56,556
>> Okay but it's not a pile up like we're seeing

671
00:41:56,556 --> 00:41:58,127
in the entrance park right now.

672
00:41:58,127 --> 00:42:01,607
>> It would be broken down to fit the area.

673
00:42:01,607 --> 00:42:05,343
>> Because if you go to the map there's another item

674
00:42:05,343 --> 00:42:06,527
for the pillars.

675
00:42:06,527 --> 00:42:12,700
You have two as a pillar feature and then six as debris.

676
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:19,807
>> Yeah if I may -- so the six, this area here and here

677
00:42:20,573 --> 00:42:21,627
and here.

678
00:42:21,627 --> 00:42:23,627
And over here.

679
00:42:23,687 --> 00:42:24,807
And towards the end.

680
00:42:24,807 --> 00:42:29,103
These are small debris that we will blend in

681
00:42:29,103 --> 00:42:30,407
with the landscape.

682
00:42:30,407 --> 00:42:33,778
It's debris that was preserved from the site.

683
00:42:33,778 --> 00:42:37,870
And that was a feature that was requested

684
00:42:37,870 --> 00:42:38,487
throughout the process.

685
00:42:38,487 --> 00:42:40,825
>> Do we have a photo of what that looks like

686
00:42:40,825 --> 00:42:43,533
because we're looking at a photo of a pillar so you're telling me

687
00:42:43,533 --> 00:42:44,647
it's two separate things?

688
00:42:44,647 --> 00:42:48,522
>> I don't have that on the on --

689
00:42:48,522 --> 00:42:49,567
I don't have that here.

690
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:52,347
It's basically positioning a piece of debris

691
00:42:52,347 --> 00:42:54,527
in those areas with the landscape.

692
00:42:54,527 --> 00:42:59,170
>> So judging on the faces of the crowd and the feedback that

693
00:42:59,170 --> 00:43:02,727
we got from when they moved the debris to the tennis center.

694
00:43:02,727 --> 00:43:05,783
Was people can't drive up columns anymore.

695
00:43:05,783 --> 00:43:08,406
They can't look at this this is their home this is their life

696
00:43:08,406 --> 00:43:10,310
and what you're doing is you're putting

697
00:43:10,310 --> 00:43:13,860
a piece of someone's home in the grass in front of them.

698
00:43:13,860 --> 00:43:16,840
And so I mean again, I don't want to judge it yet

699
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,215
before I've seen what it looks like but I've seen nothing

700
00:43:19,215 --> 00:43:21,207
of what that is supposed to be.

701
00:43:21,207 --> 00:43:24,507
Is that a nice rock that has been put into the gardening,

702
00:43:24,507 --> 00:43:26,987
is it a giant, is what we're seeing now

703
00:43:26,987 --> 00:43:31,730
in the tennis center which is extremely disturbing to a lot?

704
00:43:31,730 --> 00:43:33,207
And again I want to thank you you've

705
00:43:33,207 --> 00:43:35,463
been on this for the last five years with us.

706
00:43:35,463 --> 00:43:37,447
Through a couple of commissions.

707
00:43:37,447 --> 00:43:39,989
And it's a very difficult position you guys were in

708
00:43:39,989 --> 00:43:41,895
and I think you did a great job of managing

709
00:43:41,895 --> 00:43:44,412
all the feedback and input so just

710
00:43:44,412 --> 00:43:46,707
bear with us a little longer and we're almost there.

711
00:43:46,707 --> 00:43:50,307
I just want to clarify something.

712
00:43:51,697 --> 00:43:56,547
>> So I can look for what that would look like.

713
00:43:56,547 --> 00:43:58,852
I just have to, I need some time or I

714
00:43:58,852 --> 00:44:00,367
can send that to the manager.

715
00:44:00,367 --> 00:44:01,407
Thereafter.

716
00:44:01,407 --> 00:44:06,687
>> Yeah that's not even a feature that I remember even

717
00:44:06,687 --> 00:44:09,167
seeing any of the plans or anything so we can definitely

718
00:44:09,167 --> 00:44:10,310
bring that back.

719
00:44:10,310 --> 00:44:12,167
To the commission and if the commission

720
00:44:12,167 --> 00:44:15,513
decides that's not a type of feature that's just debris

721
00:44:15,513 --> 00:44:17,753
that we wouldn't use or place because that's more

722
00:44:17,753 --> 00:44:19,767
of a gardening type of feature.

723
00:44:19,767 --> 00:44:22,167
It's a hardscape more than anything so.

724
00:44:22,167 --> 00:44:25,470
That wouldn't stop the whole project.

725
00:44:25,470 --> 00:44:29,727
It wouldn't cause like a complete redesign of anything.

726
00:44:29,727 --> 00:44:32,207
>> It's just positioning of debris.

727
00:44:32,207 --> 00:44:35,260
>> I would just ask again before it gets placed

728
00:44:35,260 --> 00:44:38,327
or if there's something we can see on that first.

729
00:44:38,327 --> 00:44:43,727
>> Are we requesting an amendment or a amended motion?

730
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:49,372
I mean we can approve -- can't approve something we can't see.

731
00:44:49,372 --> 00:44:51,583
But we want to move the project along.

732
00:44:51,583 --> 00:44:54,287
We don't have any photo of that?

733
00:44:54,287 --> 00:44:58,167
>> I just need a few minutes to see what I can find.

734
00:44:58,167 --> 00:45:02,887
>> In the meantime through the mayor may I ask him questions

735
00:45:02,887 --> 00:45:08,247
of the manager and attorney I'm confused about a few things.

736
00:45:08,247 --> 00:45:11,172
If we approve a design tonight does it

737
00:45:11,172 --> 00:45:17,127
still go to the PNC under the recently adopted law

738
00:45:17,127 --> 00:45:21,927
that major design elements go to the PNC?

739
00:45:22,881 --> 00:45:26,180
>> No sir again the design isn't changing and this was all done

740
00:45:26,180 --> 00:45:28,559
and approved prior to that occurring.

741
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:35,759
The only thing that we've done -- prior to the April ordinance.

742
00:45:36,407 --> 00:45:40,138
The only thing that we've done is taken a look

743
00:45:40,138 --> 00:45:41,663
at the phase construction project

744
00:45:41,663 --> 00:45:44,335
to get it under the budget we haven't changed the design we

745
00:45:44,335 --> 00:45:46,199
haven't done anything with regards

746
00:45:46,199 --> 00:45:49,127
to the overall design of the project.

747
00:45:49,127 --> 00:45:54,591
>> And is there any, my understanding and you can please

748
00:45:54,591 --> 00:45:56,367
correct me if I'm wrong.

749
00:45:56,367 --> 00:46:01,511
The Memorial committee hasn't weighed in on the project at all

750
00:46:01,511 --> 00:46:04,719
since, not since the April meeting or whichever meeting it

751
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,632
was that -- approved the scaled back project.

752
00:46:08,632 --> 00:46:09,757
Okay.

753
00:46:09,757 --> 00:46:11,757
Third question.

754
00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:13,879
Through the mayor for the attorney.

755
00:46:13,879 --> 00:46:18,617
What is the current status of those spending limits

756
00:46:18,617 --> 00:46:21,457
from the referendum because when we've talked recently

757
00:46:21,457 --> 00:46:24,655
about the Collins Water main, I've

758
00:46:24,655 --> 00:46:26,727
gotten the impression from the attorney

759
00:46:26,727 --> 00:46:33,327
that the intention is to hold that referendum to be illegal.

760
00:46:35,700 --> 00:46:37,744
I haven't been totally convinced by that

761
00:46:37,744 --> 00:46:40,327
but that's my understanding of where the attorney's advice has

762
00:46:40,327 --> 00:46:41,170
been leaning.

763
00:46:41,170 --> 00:46:43,111
So doesn't that create an opportunity then

764
00:46:43,111 --> 00:46:46,667
for us to discuss the project as originally designed including

765
00:46:46,667 --> 00:46:52,667
the canopy and the other feature that was taken out

766
00:46:53,113 --> 00:46:56,529
in March or April which I think was the concrete benches?

767
00:46:56,529 --> 00:46:59,220
I mean I think if we're going to be

768
00:46:59,220 --> 00:47:02,420
not hemmed in by the referendum, spending limits

769
00:47:02,420 --> 00:47:05,340
when it comes to the water main why are they hemming us

770
00:47:05,340 --> 00:47:07,401
in now in the memorial project I'm

771
00:47:07,401 --> 00:47:09,276
not quite sure what the different approaches.

772
00:47:09,276 --> 00:47:11,200
Why we have two different approaches

773
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,600
to do different projects.

774
00:47:14,247 --> 00:47:18,943
>> The answer is I don't know who you mean they.

775
00:47:18,943 --> 00:47:20,567
Who's hemming you in?

776
00:47:20,567 --> 00:47:25,831
>> I'm just saying we, the reason why this was,

777
00:47:25,831 --> 00:47:29,369
the project was scaled back was to fit underneath the spending

778
00:47:29,369 --> 00:47:29,869
cap.

779
00:47:29,869 --> 00:47:36,463
So if the spending cap is no longer in your opinion, law,

780
00:47:36,463 --> 00:47:41,263
then shouldn't we be considering the full project

781
00:47:41,487 --> 00:47:47,487
that was before us originally that went out to bid?

782
00:47:47,519 --> 00:47:51,237
>> You're going to the motivation as to why

783
00:47:51,237 --> 00:47:55,470
there's been a modification and whether you just want to --

784
00:47:55,470 --> 00:47:58,767
>> The should question is for the commission but the legal

785
00:47:58,767 --> 00:48:02,270
question is, is it your opinion that --

786
00:48:02,270 --> 00:48:04,607
that we're not bound by the referendum?

787
00:48:04,607 --> 00:48:05,847
Spending cap?

788
00:48:05,847 --> 00:48:09,312
>> That is where I'm heading that I haven't come to that

789
00:48:09,312 --> 00:48:11,895
final conclusion yet but that is the direction that I'm headed

790
00:48:11,895 --> 00:48:17,895
in which is that the unanimous vote provision as well

791
00:48:19,527 --> 00:48:23,740
as the 60% provision were not properly placed before

792
00:48:23,740 --> 00:48:25,167
the voters.

793
00:48:25,167 --> 00:48:27,167
>> Okay.

794
00:48:27,767 --> 00:48:32,423
>> But that's the direction that we're headed in.

795
00:48:32,423 --> 00:48:33,815
I haven't come to that conclusion

796
00:48:33,815 --> 00:48:37,790
so as of tonight, you're still, my advice

797
00:48:37,790 --> 00:48:40,647
is that you're still bound by that provision.

798
00:48:40,647 --> 00:48:42,559
>> We are okay.

799
00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:46,870
But right but we might not be a month from now or --

800
00:48:46,870 --> 00:48:49,687
>> Might not be if you want to put this off you can.

801
00:48:49,687 --> 00:48:53,301
>> Those are my questions I mean are we having discussion then I

802
00:48:53,301 --> 00:48:57,700
mean I would like to -- those answers are hopeful

803
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:59,887
for the point I wanted to make but.

804
00:48:59,887 --> 00:49:03,247
>> Before we get into discussion I'm going to bring up public

805
00:49:03,247 --> 00:49:06,247
comment is the presentation (Indistinct).

806
00:49:07,967 --> 00:49:10,387
No we can do public comment while you're checking

807
00:49:10,387 --> 00:49:12,467
if you have a few minutes.

808
00:49:12,467 --> 00:49:15,467
All right where's my speaker.

809
00:49:16,287 --> 00:49:17,743
Barbara Cohen.

810
00:49:17,743 --> 00:49:19,199
You sure?

811
00:49:19,199 --> 00:49:20,327
Okay.

812
00:49:20,327 --> 00:49:23,327
I'll come back to you.

813
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:27,960
George Cousillas.

814
00:49:32,776 --> 00:49:34,776
>> George 9225 Collins Avenue.

815
00:49:37,367 --> 00:49:40,367
First Mr. Mayor, your description

816
00:49:41,470 --> 00:49:44,527
of the timeline and culpability where we are

817
00:49:44,527 --> 00:49:45,775
is exactly accurate.

818
00:49:45,775 --> 00:49:49,127
That this commission didn't get us here.

819
00:49:49,127 --> 00:49:53,997
But I want to talk about probably something very

820
00:49:53,997 --> 00:49:55,780
dull to most people here.

821
00:49:55,780 --> 00:49:57,833
But the construction contract.

822
00:49:57,833 --> 00:50:00,967
I've gone through it come on I've go through construction

823
00:50:00,967 --> 00:50:02,287
contracts all the time.

824
00:50:02,287 --> 00:50:05,420
There's some weird things in here which,

825
00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:09,167
I mean if the contract is fine with it,

826
00:50:09,167 --> 00:50:12,847
but it looks like it things were trapped in many months ago not

827
00:50:12,847 --> 00:50:18,460
by our current attorneys -- drafted many months ago not

828
00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:21,735
by our current attorneys and there's things that strike me --

829
00:50:21,735 --> 00:50:25,367
you have liquidated damages that apply to the contractor.

830
00:50:25,367 --> 00:50:28,287
But you don't have a waiver of consequential damages.

831
00:50:28,287 --> 00:50:30,247
Typically when you have liquidated damages

832
00:50:30,247 --> 00:50:33,300
you also have a waiver of consequential damages.

833
00:50:33,300 --> 00:50:37,787
The difference between them is a consequential damages

834
00:50:37,787 --> 00:50:39,290
a direct cost.

835
00:50:39,290 --> 00:50:42,950
I wasn't able to open, I lost so many thousands

836
00:50:42,950 --> 00:50:45,537
of dollars of business a day, you owe me for that

837
00:50:45,537 --> 00:50:48,247
or I rented a tent for a big grand opening

838
00:50:48,247 --> 00:50:49,727
and I didn't get that.

839
00:50:49,727 --> 00:50:52,420
Liquidated you just apply a number.

840
00:50:52,420 --> 00:50:55,527
So that's not in there so the contract

841
00:50:55,527 --> 00:50:58,744
is kind of on the hook for both because you don't have it

842
00:50:58,744 --> 00:51:01,167
and when you go into nets and 2.3

843
00:51:01,167 --> 00:51:05,367
and when you go further down into 8.6,

844
00:51:05,807 --> 00:51:10,607
that's where the waiver of consequential damages portion.

845
00:51:11,727 --> 00:51:12,415
Paragraph is.

846
00:51:12,415 --> 00:51:17,870
And it's really only waiver of the contractors.

847
00:51:17,870 --> 00:51:19,420
Consequential damages so they can't

848
00:51:19,420 --> 00:51:21,418
go after the town for loss of profit or loss

849
00:51:21,418 --> 00:51:23,700
of this or loss of that.

850
00:51:23,700 --> 00:51:25,951
You usually have consequential damages for both parties.

851
00:51:25,951 --> 00:51:28,951
And that's not in there.

852
00:51:30,828 --> 00:51:34,560
Finally and this is an important part of any construction

853
00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:38,870
contract, you have this, what's usually

854
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:40,627
called a continuing performance clause in a contract.

855
00:51:40,627 --> 00:51:44,215
And what it does is the beauty of construction contracts

856
00:51:44,215 --> 00:51:48,157
as opposed to most contracts is everything goes to hell.

857
00:51:48,157 --> 00:51:49,487
During construction.

858
00:51:49,487 --> 00:51:53,127
And the contract is designed to manage that right?

859
00:51:53,127 --> 00:51:56,170
According to the terms for regular contract,

860
00:51:56,170 --> 00:51:58,237
people would be in default by the second day.

861
00:51:58,237 --> 00:51:58,897
Both parties.

862
00:51:58,897 --> 00:52:01,167
But not so in a construction contract

863
00:52:01,167 --> 00:52:04,174
there are changes and all these mechanisms in place.

864
00:52:04,174 --> 00:52:07,467
And if you let me run just a few seconds over.

865
00:52:07,467 --> 00:52:10,170
So typically what you say is if we

866
00:52:10,170 --> 00:52:13,110
have a dispute over the change order for the new bathroom that

867
00:52:13,110 --> 00:52:15,807
was added, the contractor is still

868
00:52:15,807 --> 00:52:17,687
obligated to perform the work.

869
00:52:17,687 --> 00:52:19,487
While the dispute goes on.

870
00:52:19,487 --> 00:52:22,355
And the owner is obligated to keep paying

871
00:52:22,355 --> 00:52:24,647
while the dispute is going on.

872
00:52:24,647 --> 00:52:27,417
Here you only have continuing to performance

873
00:52:27,417 --> 00:52:29,247
on the part of the contractor.

874
00:52:29,247 --> 00:52:31,296
Again it's kind of an uneven thing

875
00:52:31,296 --> 00:52:34,167
I'm surprised any contractor would agree to it.

876
00:52:34,167 --> 00:52:37,207
If they have that's fine but this was written by an earlier

877
00:52:37,207 --> 00:52:40,562
attorney I presume, and so I would

878
00:52:40,562 --> 00:52:43,426
recommend going through this very carefully

879
00:52:43,426 --> 00:52:46,527
and seeing, wringing out things like this.

880
00:52:46,527 --> 00:52:47,647
Thank you.

881
00:52:47,647 --> 00:52:49,647
>> Thank you George.

882
00:52:54,460 --> 00:52:56,460
Commissioner?

883
00:52:59,407 --> 00:53:01,807
>> Marianne Marcia 9225 Collins Avenue.

884
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:09,960
So this is a first view of the revised memorial

885
00:53:09,527 --> 00:53:14,207
and I see life through trees and fountain.

886
00:53:14,207 --> 00:53:21,407
But I just wish it would reflect more of the positive view

887
00:53:21,886 --> 00:53:23,487
of hope and life.

888
00:53:23,487 --> 00:53:24,983
For the future.

889
00:53:24,983 --> 00:53:29,303
Versus the sadness and tragedy of the past.

890
00:53:29,303 --> 00:53:30,607
Thank you.

891
00:53:30,607 --> 00:53:32,607
>> Thank you Commissioner.

892
00:53:33,727 --> 00:53:36,127
>> Robert Cohen last chance?

893
00:53:37,127 --> 00:53:37,999
Okay.

894
00:53:37,999 --> 00:53:41,599
All right let's close public comment

895
00:53:41,953 --> 00:53:45,553
and go back to the commission.

896
00:53:45,567 --> 00:53:51,567
Is Keith ready to do find anything or not yet?

897
00:53:59,184 --> 00:54:02,854
>> Do not have with me a rendering that would show

898
00:54:02,854 --> 00:54:04,127
or depict that.

899
00:54:04,127 --> 00:54:09,620
What I can say is, I believe in prior presentations

900
00:54:09,620 --> 00:54:14,415
that we submitted we did show how that would look

901
00:54:14,415 --> 00:54:17,267
and basically just to describe.

902
00:54:17,267 --> 00:54:22,627
It's pieces of debris that are similar to like manager

903
00:54:22,627 --> 00:54:25,967
mentioned art scape that would be positioned

904
00:54:25,967 --> 00:54:27,967
around some landscape.

905
00:54:28,847 --> 00:54:35,627
So that was something that was very well described in the past

906
00:54:35,627 --> 00:54:42,227
but apologies I don't have that rendering with me right now.

907
00:54:43,632 --> 00:54:45,567
>> (Indistinct) what?

908
00:54:45,567 --> 00:54:48,567
>> Yes would you have that?

909
00:55:06,952 --> 00:55:10,552
>> Sandra did the 60% go to PNC?

910
00:55:11,287 --> 00:55:13,287
>> Yes August 28th 2025.

911
00:55:15,150 --> 00:55:18,615
That's what I'm looking for actually.

912
00:55:34,247 --> 00:55:35,543
Here Greg.

913
00:55:35,543 --> 00:55:37,543
It's in here.

914
00:55:59,274 --> 00:56:03,474
>> (Indistinct) No this one doesn't have it.

915
00:56:39,847 --> 00:56:44,470
So this came on a different rendering.

916
00:56:49,762 --> 00:56:53,962
>> We can mayor Commissioner, again that's hardscape,

917
00:56:54,971 --> 00:56:59,919
we can go back and tomorrow email you all what the rendering

918
00:56:59,919 --> 00:57:01,327
would look like.

919
00:57:01,327 --> 00:57:04,287
And then that's something that during construction or prior

920
00:57:04,287 --> 00:57:07,227
to construction starting, if the commission

921
00:57:07,227 --> 00:57:10,150
wants to give certain direction on that we can adjust.

922
00:57:10,150 --> 00:57:12,687
That doesn't stop the project.

923
00:57:12,687 --> 00:57:17,487
>> Would you mind sorry Mr. Trevor can you leave that file

924
00:57:17,487 --> 00:57:20,847
open I want to make reference to it.

925
00:57:20,847 --> 00:57:22,847
>> Or this one?

926
00:57:23,189 --> 00:57:25,189
Oh the 60%?

927
00:57:46,226 --> 00:57:48,855
>> So just to clarify come on to the motion maker

928
00:57:48,855 --> 00:57:52,660
if you're willing to amend it to exclude I guess item six until

929
00:57:52,660 --> 00:57:57,460
such time it can be reviewed and added?

930
00:57:58,921 --> 00:58:01,747
>> I see a number of sixes throughout that's all the same

931
00:58:01,747 --> 00:58:02,430
item?

932
00:58:02,430 --> 00:58:03,797
Same future?

933
00:58:03,797 --> 00:58:07,397
I see six throughout the --

934
00:58:07,487 --> 00:58:13,487
>> These are the sections where that hardscape would be placed.

935
00:58:14,870 --> 00:58:17,437
>> Okay but if we're able to proceed with the overall project

936
00:58:17,437 --> 00:58:22,550
and isolate this component, for further direction then

937
00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:23,540
I'll amend my motion.

938
00:58:23,540 --> 00:58:24,967
As such.

939
00:58:24,967 --> 00:58:26,967
>> Second I agree.

940
00:58:27,767 --> 00:58:33,767
>> The pending motion is to move forward with the alternative

941
00:58:34,487 --> 00:58:39,287
design and to direct the attorneys and manager

942
00:58:43,790 --> 00:58:46,767
to negotiate the terms of a final contract.

943
00:58:46,767 --> 00:58:49,470
That's the pending motion that's there.

944
00:58:49,470 --> 00:58:52,295
>> And with that you can still review the contract given

945
00:58:52,295 --> 00:58:53,647
the concern that was --

946
00:58:53,647 --> 00:58:58,619
>> So this plan here, I'm not sure that this is in the revised

947
00:58:58,619 --> 00:58:59,119
drawings.

948
00:58:59,119 --> 00:59:04,647
Is this in the revised packet that's been approved by shift?

949
00:59:04,647 --> 00:59:06,870
Okay.

950
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:09,647
>> The position of the hardscape yes.

951
00:59:09,647 --> 00:59:15,427
>> And so within their contract, and within the scope of what

952
00:59:15,427 --> 00:59:20,827
you're awarding tonight, is the specification if you will,

953
00:59:23,543 --> 00:59:28,217
that at those locations there will be the placement of certain

954
00:59:28,217 --> 00:59:29,597
debris right?

955
00:59:29,597 --> 00:59:30,747
That's what.

956
00:59:30,747 --> 00:59:32,747
Okay.

957
00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:39,549
You can go ahead on the motion if you

958
00:59:39,549 --> 00:59:44,949
want to place a further directive, separate and apart

959
00:59:45,687 --> 00:59:50,487
from the contract, that the Council, the commission

960
00:59:51,727 --> 00:59:58,560
would like to have input in the materials that are being placed

961
00:59:58,560 --> 01:00:00,980
at each of these debris locations,

962
01:00:00,980 --> 01:00:04,727
and we can do that separate from the contract.

963
01:00:04,727 --> 01:00:08,455
You don't want to pull out this from the contract,

964
01:00:08,455 --> 01:00:11,404
it's part of the contract it's part of what's being bid.

965
01:00:11,404 --> 01:00:14,975
He's including these items as placing these things there.

966
01:00:14,975 --> 01:00:17,987
If you want to select the individual pieces that

967
01:00:17,987 --> 01:00:22,807
you'd like to do, do that separate from the follow up --

968
01:00:22,807 --> 01:00:26,387
>> We want to know what this is there's no image of what

969
01:00:26,387 --> 01:00:27,647
we're approving here tonight.

970
01:00:27,647 --> 01:00:29,159
It says debris.

971
01:00:29,159 --> 01:00:33,187
The feedback and again this is started a year ago when they

972
01:00:33,187 --> 01:00:35,187
moved on --

973
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,670
>> So then you can approve this project with a modification that

974
01:00:38,670 --> 01:00:42,870
removes the debris from the approved plans.

975
01:00:42,870 --> 01:00:48,687
>> Why don't we leave the debris analyze the alternative we can

976
01:00:48,718 --> 01:00:51,135
still do a change order if it's going to be a change order

977
01:00:51,135 --> 01:00:53,823
or just swap the materials at no cost.

978
01:00:53,823 --> 01:00:56,519
But right now, they have in the contract

979
01:00:56,519 --> 01:00:58,807
the cost of the placement if you take it out,

980
01:00:58,807 --> 01:01:01,957
and I did later it's going to cost more.

981
01:01:01,957 --> 01:01:03,487
For sure.

982
01:01:03,487 --> 01:01:06,767
>> We've asked to bring it back to the council.

983
01:01:06,767 --> 01:01:09,309
If we come back and we say we don't like this you take it off

984
01:01:09,309 --> 01:01:12,649
the contract right now the contract let's say whatever two

985
01:01:12,649 --> 01:01:15,490
point, $3.550 million is approved.

986
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:16,759
That's what's approved tonight.

987
01:01:16,759 --> 01:01:19,942
And if we decide we don't want to move forward with debris

988
01:01:19,942 --> 01:01:24,327
because it's traumatic -- then It's a change order --

989
01:01:24,327 --> 01:01:27,327
>> Yeah that's what I said yeah.

990
01:01:27,327 --> 01:01:31,527
>> But we're not approving the design it's --

991
01:01:31,527 --> 01:01:36,927
>> You're approving the plans that are in the --

992
01:01:37,470 --> 01:01:39,984
>> We're approving the contract with the plans with

993
01:01:39,984 --> 01:01:42,692
the stipulation that the artwork on the walls changes and the six

994
01:01:42,692 --> 01:01:44,647
comes back to the commission to see --

995
01:01:44,647 --> 01:01:46,183
>> No problem.

996
01:01:46,183 --> 01:01:47,727
Got it.

997
01:01:47,727 --> 01:01:50,727
>> So there's a motion --

998
01:01:51,470 --> 01:01:57,647
>> There's a pending motion you can call the question and --

999
01:01:57,748 --> 01:01:59,619
>> So we can call to vote.

1000
01:01:59,619 --> 01:02:00,847
To approve it.

1001
01:02:00,847 --> 01:02:05,127
>> Mayor do you want to go ahead and call the question?

1002
01:02:05,127 --> 01:02:09,327
>> Sorry my questions were preliminary to discussion.

1003
01:02:11,470 --> 01:02:17,780
I mean sorry I got -- there's a lot I have to say.

1004
01:02:17,780 --> 01:02:21,878
This represents a major departure from the memorial

1005
01:02:21,927 --> 01:02:23,327
as planned before.

1006
01:02:23,327 --> 01:02:26,807
>> Which her commission did by the way.

1007
01:02:26,807 --> 01:02:30,470
>> Please be clear about what you're saying.

1008
01:02:30,470 --> 01:02:31,967
You're just commission denied this right?

1009
01:02:31,967 --> 01:02:33,287
We're approving it tonight.

1010
01:02:33,287 --> 01:02:37,258
>> I know I know but I need to --

1011
01:02:37,258 --> 01:02:40,550
in the past two years plus the memorial committee,

1012
01:02:40,550 --> 01:02:42,180
they're the ones I want to put front and center not

1013
01:02:42,180 --> 01:02:42,805
the commission.

1014
01:02:42,805 --> 01:02:46,687
And I have the floor it's not appropriate for you --

1015
01:02:46,687 --> 01:02:49,527
>> Which you took without us.

1016
01:02:49,527 --> 01:02:51,760
>> I have the floor.

1017
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:54,121
I want to make a comment because I haven't

1018
01:02:54,121 --> 01:02:55,927
had a chance to make a comment.

1019
01:02:55,927 --> 01:02:59,940
>> Make your comment accurate please that's what I'm going

1020
01:02:59,940 --> 01:03:01,427
to ask you to do or we're going to move on to commission

1021
01:03:01,427 --> 01:03:02,967
we're going to vote --

1022
01:03:02,967 --> 01:03:06,527
>> I'm not saying anything inaccurate I'm saying this

1023
01:03:06,527 --> 01:03:09,267
design represents a major departure from the original

1024
01:03:09,267 --> 01:03:11,767
design and we need to be clear about this there's a two year

1025
01:03:11,767 --> 01:03:13,975
process not led by the commission but by the memorial

1026
01:03:13,975 --> 01:03:15,747
committee that resulted in this design.

1027
01:03:15,747 --> 01:03:18,607
I want to say for the benefit especially

1028
01:03:18,607 --> 01:03:20,350
the two commissioners who are new.

1029
01:03:20,350 --> 01:03:22,183
Because I know the Planning and Zoning Board

1030
01:03:22,183 --> 01:03:24,675
had something to do with this.

1031
01:03:24,675 --> 01:03:27,347
I think the members of the Memorial Committee

1032
01:03:27,347 --> 01:03:30,247
will be extremely upset with this decision.

1033
01:03:30,247 --> 01:03:31,153
Extremely.

1034
01:03:31,153 --> 01:03:36,827
The decision to, I mean there's a general esthetic principle

1035
01:03:36,827 --> 01:03:40,807
that came out of years of planning.

1036
01:03:40,807 --> 01:03:43,960
And it started with mood boards in this very room.

1037
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,220
Like over two years ago.

1038
01:03:46,220 --> 01:03:49,140
They wanted the memorial to be a little bit challenging.

1039
01:03:49,140 --> 01:03:51,919
They weren't looking for just hopeful.

1040
01:03:51,919 --> 01:03:55,427
They wanted it to be a sign that something horrible had

1041
01:03:55,427 --> 01:03:56,807
gone wrong here.

1042
01:03:56,807 --> 01:04:00,247
And that wasn't the commission's decision.

1043
01:04:00,247 --> 01:04:04,775
That came from the committee through many many open meetings

1044
01:04:04,775 --> 01:04:06,119
so the committee.

1045
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:07,991
I just want everyone to appreciate

1046
01:04:07,991 --> 01:04:10,199
this is why I feel the need to put this on the record

1047
01:04:10,199 --> 01:04:13,557
because this is a dramatic dramatic change of direction

1048
01:04:13,557 --> 01:04:16,100
from what the committee considered.

1049
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:18,847
The decision to have debris the decision even

1050
01:04:18,847 --> 01:04:22,892
to have that image, came from that vision which was not

1051
01:04:22,892 --> 01:04:25,343
a one off thing and certainly wasn't from the commission.

1052
01:04:25,343 --> 01:04:30,367
So in the interest of accuracy I need to make that clear.

1053
01:04:30,367 --> 01:04:35,760
I think this decision about the wall art in particular

1054
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,705
is really taking us, again not just in a direction

1055
01:04:39,705 --> 01:04:41,247
but here I'm making a different point

1056
01:04:41,247 --> 01:04:44,247
I'm in the wrong direction.

1057
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,799
I would ask the motion maker and the commission

1058
01:04:46,799 --> 01:04:48,621
I would think the wall art should go back

1059
01:04:48,621 --> 01:04:50,697
to the memorial committee and it should go back

1060
01:04:50,697 --> 01:04:52,113
to PNC for comment.

1061
01:04:52,113 --> 01:04:57,513
And I want to, I'm expressing my own opinion.

1062
01:04:57,527 --> 01:05:00,260
With all due respect to the manager

1063
01:05:00,260 --> 01:05:02,607
or to whoever came up with this image of the two

1064
01:05:02,607 --> 01:05:05,837
hands and the love lives on script.

1065
01:05:05,837 --> 01:05:07,837
It's schmaltz.

1066
01:05:07,897 --> 01:05:10,700
It looks like the kind of wall art

1067
01:05:10,700 --> 01:05:12,711
that you might buy at target.

1068
01:05:12,711 --> 01:05:16,135
The cursive script of love lasagna,

1069
01:05:16,135 --> 01:05:20,935
looks like those live laugh love designs that

1070
01:05:21,207 --> 01:05:24,807
are already kind of a joke.

1071
01:05:24,841 --> 01:05:28,707
It really, it really lowers the design quality of the memorial

1072
01:05:28,707 --> 01:05:30,407
and I'm just saying that.

1073
01:05:30,407 --> 01:05:34,780
Please before we approve this a design professional should look

1074
01:05:34,780 --> 01:05:36,739
at it the PNC board should look at it

1075
01:05:36,739 --> 01:05:38,447
and I think the memorial committee should

1076
01:05:38,447 --> 01:05:41,107
look at it because it really is a step in the wrong direction

1077
01:05:41,107 --> 01:05:45,751
these two hands touching it looks extremely cheesy.

1078
01:05:45,751 --> 01:05:49,640
And I think that's not, I mean it's not

1079
01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,230
an image worth engraving in stone.

1080
01:05:51,230 --> 01:05:52,287
It's not timeless.

1081
01:05:52,287 --> 01:05:53,767
It looks outdated.

1082
01:05:53,767 --> 01:05:55,447
It looks cheap.

1083
01:05:55,447 --> 01:05:57,783
And I don't say that lightly I really think

1084
01:05:57,783 --> 01:06:00,270
we're going in the wrong direction.

1085
01:06:00,270 --> 01:06:03,107
The reason why I asked Mr. Ashbury to bring back

1086
01:06:03,107 --> 01:06:05,437
the 60% design is because they actually had

1087
01:06:05,437 --> 01:06:08,437
a pretty elegant design there.

1088
01:06:08,647 --> 01:06:13,479
Of a kind of abstract that's it right there.

1089
01:06:13,479 --> 01:06:16,103
And abstract version of the building.

1090
01:06:16,103 --> 01:06:19,875
And the memorial committee thought they didn't want that.

1091
01:06:19,875 --> 01:06:24,960
But this is much much much better than the love lives on.

1092
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:25,927
Much better.

1093
01:06:25,927 --> 01:06:28,264
And that's just my opinion but I have

1094
01:06:28,264 --> 01:06:29,847
a feeling that if you took this to PNC

1095
01:06:29,847 --> 01:06:31,551
and you took this to Memorial committee

1096
01:06:31,551 --> 01:06:33,887
they would pick that over this.

1097
01:06:33,887 --> 01:06:37,578
So I really hope we still have time

1098
01:06:37,578 --> 01:06:40,947
and I think we should get an opinion from all those parties

1099
01:06:40,947 --> 01:06:42,119
that are interested.

1100
01:06:42,119 --> 01:06:44,940
I think the love lives on is terrible I'm not

1101
01:06:44,940 --> 01:06:48,763
going to belabor the point you might disagree but from,

1102
01:06:48,763 --> 01:06:50,896
I don't think any serious artist or designer

1103
01:06:50,896 --> 01:06:51,813
would approve of this.

1104
01:06:51,813 --> 01:06:56,167
And again it looks like something from target.

1105
01:06:56,167 --> 01:06:59,767
The other thing, I don't really understand

1106
01:06:59,767 --> 01:07:02,887
the logic of how we got here.

1107
01:07:02,887 --> 01:07:05,559
If we're expecting that we're going

1108
01:07:05,559 --> 01:07:11,415
to be no longer subject to the spending cap in a month's time,

1109
01:07:11,415 --> 01:07:14,295
then why not consider the entire project

1110
01:07:14,295 --> 01:07:17,310
with the canopy which was really the central design

1111
01:07:17,310 --> 01:07:19,580
feature of the whole thing that took years?

1112
01:07:19,580 --> 01:07:20,761
To come up with?

1113
01:07:20,761 --> 01:07:22,113
Why not have that?

1114
01:07:22,113 --> 01:07:25,327
So I think they should come back to us in August

1115
01:07:25,327 --> 01:07:26,799
after it goes to PNC and after it

1116
01:07:26,799 --> 01:07:28,105
goes to the Memorial committee.

1117
01:07:28,105 --> 01:07:31,209
May I make one other point I think

1118
01:07:31,209 --> 01:07:33,247
it's important to the process?

1119
01:07:33,247 --> 01:07:37,487
>> I need you to land the plane and hurry up already.

1120
01:07:37,487 --> 01:07:40,150
>> I understand that both the manager and the mayor have been

1121
01:07:40,150 --> 01:07:42,567
hearing from people who have strong views but the memorial

1122
01:07:42,567 --> 01:07:46,655
committee met in public and those people need to express

1123
01:07:46,655 --> 01:07:49,841
their views in public otherwise it's kind of like a sort

1124
01:07:49,841 --> 01:07:52,953
of hearsay and I am not comfortable with rejecting

1125
01:07:52,953 --> 01:07:56,617
the open deliberative decision of the committee in favor

1126
01:07:56,617 --> 01:07:59,170
of privately delivered remarks.

1127
01:07:59,127 --> 01:08:00,867
To the mayor and the manager.

1128
01:08:00,867 --> 01:08:01,575
That's not right.

1129
01:08:01,575 --> 01:08:03,658
This was always meant to be an open design process

1130
01:08:03,658 --> 01:08:06,390
and I don't know who's saying that they're traumatized

1131
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:08,640
but they need to say it in public.

1132
01:08:08,640 --> 01:08:11,470
This is too important to make a decision

1133
01:08:11,470 --> 01:08:12,600
in this kind of hearsay manner.

1134
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:15,975
And so again I think we're going in the wrong direction

1135
01:08:15,975 --> 01:08:18,247
and we're doing it through the wrong process.

1136
01:08:18,247 --> 01:08:21,867
>> So first of all I think you heard from your own residents

1137
01:08:21,867 --> 01:08:22,860
right here.

1138
01:08:22,860 --> 01:08:25,155
But I get it.

1139
01:08:25,155 --> 01:08:27,197
You're entitled to your opinion and we have ours.

1140
01:08:27,197 --> 01:08:28,927
And the memorial committee which I

1141
01:08:28,927 --> 01:08:31,807
put together five years ago, they were input

1142
01:08:31,807 --> 01:08:34,479
and we hear their input but we're building with resident

1143
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,415
money and item for the residents for the town of Surfside too

1144
01:08:37,415 --> 01:08:37,915
remember.

1145
01:08:37,915 --> 01:08:40,307
We are not building something for three family

1146
01:08:40,307 --> 01:08:41,567
members that provide input.

1147
01:08:41,567 --> 01:08:43,783
We hear it and we took it under consideration.

1148
01:08:43,783 --> 01:08:47,834
And I would say a large, this entire thing was pretty much

1149
01:08:47,834 --> 01:08:48,917
designed with their input.

1150
01:08:48,917 --> 01:08:51,307
But there's certain elements that offended others there

1151
01:08:51,307 --> 01:08:53,224
are certain elements that are just not what we

1152
01:08:53,224 --> 01:08:54,515
are looking for as a community.

1153
01:08:54,515 --> 01:08:56,187
And we are the ones that live here we're

1154
01:08:56,187 --> 01:08:58,200
the ones that have to see it every time I've

1155
01:08:58,200 --> 01:08:59,607
walked through the beach.

1156
01:08:59,607 --> 01:09:02,270
So you're entitled to your opinion we've heard it.

1157
01:09:02,270 --> 01:09:04,687
We're moving on we are not going to be the commission that

1158
01:09:04,687 --> 01:09:06,729
comes here tonight and continues to further delay

1159
01:09:06,729 --> 01:09:09,447
a process that's now been five years in the making.

1160
01:09:09,447 --> 01:09:12,647
>> I'm not interested in delaying we have consultation

1161
01:09:12,647 --> 01:09:15,303
on the wall art please I would ask Commissioner Weingart to get

1162
01:09:15,303 --> 01:09:17,961
that feedback this is going to be an embarrassment to the town

1163
01:09:17,961 --> 01:09:19,287
if we go ahead with this.

1164
01:09:19,287 --> 01:09:22,401
>> I've heard you and you've asked me a number of times

1165
01:09:22,401 --> 01:09:25,383
to change my motion and I've extended an olive branch

1166
01:09:25,383 --> 01:09:28,767
a number of times now and good grace but I haven't seen that

1167
01:09:28,767 --> 01:09:29,727
returned.

1168
01:09:29,727 --> 01:09:32,855
But you're definitely entitled to your opinion.

1169
01:09:32,855 --> 01:09:34,637
I find it very interesting you know

1170
01:09:34,637 --> 01:09:37,587
there's so much talk from the memorial committee

1171
01:09:37,587 --> 01:09:40,743
and from vocal family members that this hasn't gotten done.

1172
01:09:40,743 --> 01:09:43,200
Yet when we try to make movement,

1173
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,735
we get into this paralysis from analysis cycle

1174
01:09:45,735 --> 01:09:48,202
and just going in circles while it could

1175
01:09:48,202 --> 01:09:49,471
be better it could be better.

1176
01:09:49,471 --> 01:09:52,917
I mean a picture of the building collapsing is ridiculous

1177
01:09:52,917 --> 01:09:54,927
and that should absolutely not be up there.

1178
01:09:54,927 --> 01:09:58,503
And there's a proposed beautiful lovelies on message

1179
01:09:58,503 --> 01:09:59,967
as I shared earlier.

1180
01:09:59,967 --> 01:10:02,161
And my motion stands and I committed

1181
01:10:02,161 --> 01:10:03,661
to family members that came up to me

1182
01:10:03,661 --> 01:10:05,209
and said why don't we have this yet?

1183
01:10:05,209 --> 01:10:08,295
As if it's our fault but we're just elected in March.

1184
01:10:08,295 --> 01:10:09,267
For three months and.

1185
01:10:09,267 --> 01:10:10,757
And I said we're going to be the commission that's

1186
01:10:10,757 --> 01:10:12,167
going to move it forward.

1187
01:10:12,167 --> 01:10:15,700
I can't answer for what happened in the past.

1188
01:10:15,700 --> 01:10:17,407
So I'm moving forward.

1189
01:10:18,847 --> 01:10:23,727
>> We did find a rendering of those Hardscapes if you'd like

1190
01:10:23,727 --> 01:10:24,873
to look.

1191
01:10:24,873 --> 01:10:27,887
This again was a while ago.

1192
01:10:27,887 --> 01:10:30,247
But the idea is to have hardscape

1193
01:10:30,247 --> 01:10:31,593
throughout the landscape.

1194
01:10:31,593 --> 01:10:33,593
Throughout the project.

1195
01:10:34,870 --> 01:10:38,632
>> That looks like debris again this looks like Rebar sticking

1196
01:10:38,632 --> 01:10:41,700
this looks like exactly what we have in the tennis center

1197
01:10:41,700 --> 01:10:44,700
so I'm absolutely against that.

1198
01:10:44,407 --> 01:10:46,479
That is someone's home right there.

1199
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:48,500
Somebody died on that thing.

1200
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:50,799
I'm not putting that in the garden

1201
01:10:50,799 --> 01:10:52,863
for everybody to look at and walk past.

1202
01:10:52,863 --> 01:10:55,367
There's people that will not walk into the city that have

1203
01:10:55,367 --> 01:10:58,367
lived here hundreds of people.

1204
01:11:00,927 --> 01:11:03,773
So I would ask the motion maker to take out

1205
01:11:03,773 --> 01:11:05,207
number six from the design.

1206
01:11:05,207 --> 01:11:09,207
>> I did that previously I amended my motion.

1207
01:11:09,207 --> 01:11:13,119
>> So we can value it down further if required

1208
01:11:13,119 --> 01:11:17,919
but we're not looking to maintain that visual.

1209
01:11:18,607 --> 01:11:22,207
Madam clerk call the roll please.

1210
01:11:22,207 --> 01:11:26,640
>> I have a question -- so this design of the two hands is

1211
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:27,940
coming from where?

1212
01:11:27,940 --> 01:11:30,340
Like who did that?

1213
01:11:32,287 --> 01:11:35,247
>> Symbol of it for the last five years.

1214
01:11:35,247 --> 01:11:39,727
>> This is the image that is on the temporary banners that have

1215
01:11:39,727 --> 01:11:43,470
all the names that are, that have been on the site it's also

1216
01:11:43,470 --> 01:11:44,975
been used in the fliers and whatnot.

1217
01:11:44,975 --> 01:11:47,660
I don't know where the original image came from.

1218
01:11:47,660 --> 01:11:52,128
But the town's used it for many years.

1219
01:11:52,128 --> 01:11:56,187
>> Yeah but what I'm saying is like the complete thing like

1220
01:11:56,187 --> 01:11:59,400
with the, because I don't remember if the writing is

1221
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:00,321
on that image or not.

1222
01:12:00,321 --> 01:12:02,519
Is it on that image?

1223
01:12:02,519 --> 01:12:03,911
It is?

1224
01:12:03,911 --> 01:12:05,127
Okay.

1225
01:12:05,127 --> 01:12:07,127
>> Madam clerk.

1226
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:10,470
>> Call the roll?

1227
01:12:12,607 --> 01:12:14,607
>> No.

1228
01:12:15,167 --> 01:12:17,167
>> Commissioner Weingart.

1229
01:12:17,847 --> 01:12:19,847
>> Yes.

1230
01:12:20,207 --> 01:12:22,207
>> Commissioner Trevanny.

1231
01:12:22,967 --> 01:12:26,199
>> I'm going to make my comment before voting.

1232
01:12:26,199 --> 01:12:28,652
This we said this is not going to go back

1233
01:12:28,652 --> 01:12:33,847
in front of the PNC or the committee right?

1234
01:12:33,847 --> 01:12:35,687
>> They've already seen it.

1235
01:12:35,687 --> 01:12:39,284
This design has been approved and done in the last commission.

1236
01:12:39,284 --> 01:12:42,420
What we are doing now is just approving the contract.

1237
01:12:42,420 --> 01:12:45,420
You're talking about the image.

1238
01:12:45,327 --> 01:12:49,687
Did not see that image no but they saw this memorial --

1239
01:12:49,687 --> 01:12:54,487
>> I'm talking about the image and the debris.

1240
01:12:54,727 --> 01:12:58,735
Yeah I don't feel comfortable voting yes

1241
01:12:58,735 --> 01:13:02,935
just because this went through a process

1242
01:13:03,700 --> 01:13:09,607
and I'm okay with something that comes out of a process.

1243
01:13:10,287 --> 01:13:14,690
I'm less okay with us coming back at the end

1244
01:13:14,690 --> 01:13:16,338
and doing modification without the input of the people

1245
01:13:16,338 --> 01:13:17,927
so I'm going to vote no.

1246
01:13:17,927 --> 01:13:21,367
>> Remember you're now on the record for voting no

1247
01:13:21,367 --> 01:13:23,517
for a memorial that's all.

1248
01:13:23,517 --> 01:13:26,367
So whatever process is not fitting in your head properly

1249
01:13:26,367 --> 01:13:29,137
you will always be on record that you said no to a memorial.

1250
01:13:29,137 --> 01:13:31,169
Something that the families have waited

1251
01:13:31,169 --> 01:13:32,627
five years something this committee

1252
01:13:32,627 --> 01:13:34,993
is waiting to heal and move on to the next chapter

1253
01:13:34,993 --> 01:13:37,927
of our community you guys want to say no that's fine.

1254
01:13:37,927 --> 01:13:42,877
>> True but -- you made a comment to what I said so I can

1255
01:13:42,877 --> 01:13:44,877
--

1256
01:13:45,145 --> 01:13:47,858
>> (Indistinct) debate is over debate is over

1257
01:13:47,858 --> 01:13:48,983
the question's been called.

1258
01:13:48,983 --> 01:13:52,762
Madam clerk let's finish this up please.

1259
01:13:52,762 --> 01:13:56,500
>> Absolutely yes I'm very glad to vote yes for this it's been

1260
01:13:56,500 --> 01:13:58,500
five years.

1261
01:13:59,167 --> 01:14:01,607
And absolutely yes thank you.

1262
01:14:01,607 --> 01:14:03,607
>> Mayor Danzinger.

1263
01:14:04,207 --> 01:14:09,340
>> Yes and I there's not one family member here so.

1264
01:14:09,340 --> 01:14:10,687
We're going to say yes.

1265
01:14:10,687 --> 01:14:12,535
>> Motion carries.

1266
01:14:12,535 --> 01:14:14,535
Motion to adjourn?

1267
01:14:14,567 --> 01:14:16,567
>> For what?

1268
01:14:22,562 --> 01:14:25,700
>> The budget was already approved by the previous

1269
01:14:25,700 --> 01:14:30,127
commission back in, this is just the contract terms.

1270
01:14:30,127 --> 01:14:32,127
>> Motion to adjourn?

1271
01:14:34,576 --> 01:14:36,576
>> Second.