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to the zoning board appeals for the town
of Webster for September 8th, 2026.

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Uh we have three tabled matters for
tonight and we have two three four five

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uh scheduled matters uh for tonight.
Here's a proof of publication for all

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items. Uh call for attendance.
>> Mr. Short

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» here.
>> Mrs. Vololo

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» here. Mr. Spanado
>> here.

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» Mr. Senola
>> here.

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» Mr. Porso
>> here.

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» Miss Mr. Artuso
>> here.

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» Miss Corsy
>> present.

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» Mr. Dearco
>> present.

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» If we could all stand for the pledge of
allegiance.

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» I pledge allegiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all.

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So, we do have uh quite a bit of items
on the uh on the agenda for tonight. Um

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if we need um we we the board has the
right to at 10:00 uh table any remaining

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items. I'm hoping we don't have to do
that. Um but if we do um we'll give fair

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warning.
Uh let's see.

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So I guess first first item
>> so just to let

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» audience know we are because the tabled
matters

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um are a longer discussion we're going
to start with the scheduled matters this

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evening and then we'll go back up to the
tabled matters. So we are changing the

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agenda around just a little bit. Um so
that [cough and clears throat] being

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said, um the first matter tonight is
1725 State Road.

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» So if uh Robert uh Bingham
and if you can make sure you speak into

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the mic.
>> So if you can uh kind of uh explain your

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project to us and um go through what
you're doing.

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» Sure. Uh, I'm Robert Bingham Jr. I live
at 1725 State Road. Uh, basically my

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project consists of I took down my old
dilapactated garage. Uh, was falling

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apart. Had a bunch of holes in the
foundation. Um, it would be more to

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repair to than it was to replace it. So,
uh, I'm coming here today to seek a

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variance to go, uh, 2 ft closer
or 3 ft closer to my property line, uh,

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making so that I can make my pull barn
attached to the house of 40x40, which is

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a more conventional size. Um, it was
easier to order that way. Uh, more room

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for the stuff that I have. And uh yeah,
it's basically what I'm here for today.

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Seeking that variance to go closer to my
property line.

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» Do you know what the distance will be
off the property line?

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» Uh 12 ft, sir.
>> It will be 12 ft off the property line.

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» Yes, sir.
>> Okay. Thank you.

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» Other questions from the board?
>> Is this one story or two stories? one

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story.

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» How tall will it be at the peak?
>> The ceiling height on the inside is 11

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ft and the rafters are
they're 412 pitch, I think. So,

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» okay.

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» Other questions from the board?
>> Any utilities inside the garage?

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» Yes, sir. Utilities will be all brought
in through the basement and then into

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the garage. So, just the electric. I'm
going to put a couple outlets out there.

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» And are you What's the pole barn going
to look like as far as an elevation? Is

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it just going to be the metal pole barn?
Are you going to side it similar to the

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house or? Uh, it's going to be like a
gray metal uh exterior and then my hope

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is to match the siding to it in the
coming years, next year or two. The

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siding in my house now is not the best.
So, I figured I'd get the barn where I

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wanted it and then attach the siding up
to that.

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» Thank you.
>> Yes, sir.

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» And this is all for personal use, the
size of it, not for any commercial use.

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Yes, ma'am. It out.
>> I have uh I have an old truck that I

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don't drive in the winter. Two trucks I
don't drive in the winter and a plow

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truck that I just like to keep inside.
So,

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» Okay.
>> Thank you.

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» and four-wheelers and stuff like that.
So, run out of room at my old place.

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» Other questions?
No. I'd like to open it up to the public

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if anybody wants to speak for or against
this project. Please come on up.

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No. I'll bring it back to the board. Any
other questions for the board?

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» No. I'm going to ask the question one
more time. What's the distance off the

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property line? I didn't write it down.
>> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. It's uh 12 ft.

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It's going to be 12 ft off the property
line.

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» Thank you.
>> Okay.

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[clears throat]
Uh

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like to make a motion for a type two
action under seeker pursuant to NYCRR

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section 617.5 of the environmental code.
>> Second.

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» Second.
>> All those in favor?

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» I
>> I

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um

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see
findings

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Chris.
Sure.

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» [clears throat]
>> The uh

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proposed uh action, if approved, will
not result in a uh change in the

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essential character of the neighborhood.
Uh I don't think it will create a

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detriment to nearby properties. Uh they
you're replacing a existing garage in at

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best fair condition with a new pole
barn. and he has stated that he will try

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and match the siding uh with the house
when he resides the house. Uh

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the
based on the applicants uh propose

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these choosing the size based on
commercial availability and the need to

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store additional personal items. So
there's not any real addition alternates

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considered for this because there was a
available one and it needs to go where

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the garage is currently.
Uh the variance isn't uh substantial in

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in any way, shape or form. It's similar
to other garages in the general area as

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far as setback 12 ft off the side.
Uh there aren't any potential impacts on

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physical or environmental conditions
uh based on the

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provided material. And while the uh
the the

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project is self-created, there's no
really other place to put a pole bar the

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size he needs to to meet his
requirements

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uh any other way.
I'm just going to add that um it's not

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out of character for the neighborhood.
Uh

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the property is
um in a more agricultural area of the

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town of Webster.
>> I um I would also excuse me add that um

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it there was an existing garage there so
it's just replacing the existing

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attached garage to the house. It's just
larger.

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» Okay.
Anybody else want anything else? No.

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Okay. Uh, I'd like to make a motion for
an area variance to allow a side setback

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of 12 ft where 15 ft is required in
association with the construction of a

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new garage on a 0.68 acre parcel having
SPL 081.03-1-21 03-1-21

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located in a uh LL large lot single
family residential district under

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section 350-13 of the code of the town
of Webster.

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» Second
>> Mr. Short

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» I
>> Mrs. Volo

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» I
>> Mr. Stampinado

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» I
>> Mr. Senola

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» I
>> Mr. Of course, sir.

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» All right. You have your variance. Uh
you have one year uh to make meaningful

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progress on the project. Uh you still
need all your build building permits and

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everything else.
>> Thank you all very much. Appreciate it.

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Have a good night.
>> Uh next up we have uh 539 Countryside

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Lane. If applicant uh Dominique Zakara
can come on up.

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» Good evening. My name is Dominic
Zakaryi. I own 539 Countryside Lane. I'm

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looking for an area variance of 49 ft 2
in where 60 ft is required. I'm on a

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corner lot, so I have two fronts for all
practical purposes. I'm trying to put a

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uh an addition on my existing garage of
30x 48. Um, it's going to blend in with

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the neighborhood and I'm going to use
the existing vinyl siding and match the

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metal roof that I already have on my on
my house.

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» Questions from the board?

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I'm going to ask the same question I
asked the other gentleman. Is what's the

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height of this building? It's one story
or two stories.

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» I'm sorry. He can't hear you. He's
hearing impaired. So, your question, I

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will go ask him or tell him. He wants to
know the height of the garage.

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» Uh, it's going to be a single story.
Total to the peak will be uh 21 ft, 16

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ft walls.
>> Will there be any screening on the uh

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Bay Road side of the building?
>> Um, this is on the corner side on the

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corner of Bay and Countryside. So, it'll
be facing well, the siding will be on

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base road. Uh there's a five- foot burm
with mature pine trees uh on the back

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corner and then other pine trees lining
up on bay road. So that's why I figured

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the best place to put it is it it will
be shielded pretty well. Um so it looks

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like it'll blend right in with the rest
of the house and the rest of the

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neighborhood. And having those those
mature pine trees, the neighbor behind

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me won't be able to see it. My other
neighbor uh on the opposite side won't

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be able to see it. So, it'll just be
well, the people across the street

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really won't be able to see it out there
cuz it's covered by pine. So, it'll only

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be coming from the lake down Bay Road
and on the countryside.

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» Thank you.
>> Other questions from the board?

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» This is just to be for your personal
use, not a commercial use.

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» Correct.

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» Any other questions?

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I'd like to open it up to the public. If
anybody wants to speak for or against

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this project, please come on up.
>> No. Bring it back to the board. Any

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other questions from the board?
>> No, sir.

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» I I want to uh thank you for uh getting
support from your neighbors. It's uh

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greatly appreciated having these letters
in here. So, thank you for that. Um

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there's no other questions from the
board. I'd like to make a motion for a

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type two action under seeker pursuant to
NYCRR section 617.5 of the environmental

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code.
>> Second.

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» All those in favor?
>> I.

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» Jim, you want to do the findings?
Um

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the essential character
of the neighborhood um will actually um

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look good with that size of the building
going up um being hidden by Bay Road. Um

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there's not many alternatives where that
I would say building can go

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due to uh the location in the corner
lot.

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Um there's not much of a significant
setback from 60 ft. You're going down to

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49. Correct.
>> Correct. 49.2.

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» Okay.
Um

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there's no uh potential impact uh for
any physical environmental conditions

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and although it is self-created um
it does uh improve

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his home and make sense what he need
needs it for for extra storage.

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» Anybody else want to add anything
further to it?

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I I would just add that if it were not a
quarter lot, a corner lot, um the

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variance would not be required. It's
only required because bay the side

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what's traditionally the side setback is
also considered a front setback because

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it's on Bay Road
and it meets the front and the rear

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setback. So that's the only impact.
>> Perfect. Anything else?

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No. Um, okay. Then I'd like to make a
motion for an area variance to allow a

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front setback of 49.2 ft where 60 ft is
required on a corner lot in association

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with the construction of a garage
edition on a 0.84 acre parcel having SPL

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063.14-2-30
[cough]

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located in R2 single family residential
district under section 350-11

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of the code of the town of Webster.
>> Second.

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Mr. Shore.
>> Hi.

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» Mr. Senola.
>> Hi.

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» Mr. Corso.
>> Hi.

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» Mr. Spanado.
>> I

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» Mrs. Wa.
>> I.

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» You have your variance. Uh, you still
need to get all your other building

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permits uh required. You have uh one
year to uh have meaningful movement on

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the project.
>> Good luck.

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» Very good. Thank you.
>> Yep.

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Uh, next up, 522 uh, Hackberry Way. Uh,
uh, Mike Richie uh, could please come on

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up here.

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» Where is Tom Thomas?
>> Tom Thomas

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» audience.
>> Is anybody here representing 522

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Hackberry way?
>> I can speak.

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» Okay.
[clears throat]

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I was under the impression that the
builders or the engineers were going to

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be here to present. I am the the father
of the owner. He's on his way here from

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work. Should be here momentarily.
>> Um

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» if you want to state your name for the
record and then um

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» Yes. My name is Dean Sagio.
>> Hold on one second.

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» Do we want to table this until the
applicant arrives?

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» Yeah. I um being that you are not the
applicant or one of the representatives,

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we'll table it until he gets here.
>> Does Does someone need to be here?

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» They somebody needs to be here to
present. Yes.

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» Okay.
>> Um

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» I wasn't sure if just based on the
information you had, you could approve

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or not.
>> We're we're just putting it further down

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the schedule for tonight.
>> Oh, I understand.

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» Yeah. Um
>> so it's required for him to come here as

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opposed to going home to his three kids
right now.

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» Correct. Okay.
>> Yep. Unless unless one of his

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representatives would would be here,
which obviously they're not here right

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now.
>> I will I will make sure he gets here.

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» Okay.
>> All right.

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» Appreciate it.
>> Thank you.

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» Uh so with that, we're going to move on
to uh 1054 Clem Road. Um if applicants

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uh Angel and Sandy uh want to come on
up.

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Good evening.
>> Good evening.

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» Um, I'm Angel. This is Sandy. We're just
>> Can you please make sure you speak into

215
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,159
the mic?
>> Sorry. I'm Angel. This is Sandy

216
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:02,360
Margaras. Uh, we're just applying for a
uh permit to have some chickens.

217
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:23,600
So, um you're asking for seven chickens.
>> Yes.

218
00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:26,080
» Um why
>> why [snorts]

219
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,080
um
>> for eggs?

220
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,400
» For for eggs to eat.
>> Why seven?

221
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:38,960
» Oh, why seven?
>> Yes. Um we we had uh bought six and my

222
00:24:37,039 --> 00:24:43,600
mom gave me one. Okay.
>> So that's how I got seven.

223
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:46,400
» So So you have the seven?
>> Yes. I

224
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:50,960
» mean I've been to the property. I I'm
asking the questions so I can

225
00:24:49,279 --> 00:24:56,000
» bring it out to the public is what it
is. But yes, I Okay.

226
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:59,600
» Um so the coupe is a pre-existing coupe.
It's it's there currently.

227
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:05,320
» Yes. Okay.
Um,

228
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,320
questions from the board.

229
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:14,039
» How long have you had the chickens?
>> Um, to be honest, about 5 years.

230
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:19,679
» Do we know of any complaints about the
chickens?

231
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:24,000
» Erica, any complaints that we know of?
>> We did not receive any complaints for

232
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:28,320
the chickens for this property.
>> Okay.

233
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:33,279
Okay.
Other questions from the board?

234
00:25:31,679 --> 00:25:37,279
» You going to top it off at seven or do
you think you might want more?

235
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,480
» I'm sorry.
>> You going to keep it at seven or do you

236
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:44,960
think you might want more?
>> I think we we probably keep it at seven.

237
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,080
» And it would just be chickens, no
roosters.

238
00:25:45,679 --> 00:25:52,159
» No roosters. No.
>> Okay.

239
00:25:50,159 --> 00:25:59,360
Other questions?
>> The um I know the coupe has been there

240
00:25:55,520 --> 00:26:05,600
for years. Um just I'm familiar with the
area and with one of the neighbors and

241
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:08,799
there's um
like a tarp on the front of it or are

242
00:26:07,919 --> 00:26:12,559
you going to
>> redo that and clean it up so it looks

243
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,080
more tidy?
>> I wanted to go through this to get the

244
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,679
permit so I can put probably a metal
roof on top of that.

245
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:20,559
» Okay. Okay.
>> And make it look cleaner

246
00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:26,159
» just cuz I know when I was at the
property um it is visible from the

247
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:28,400
neighbor on either side of you. So, just
cleaning it up. Um,

248
00:26:27,679 --> 00:26:33,633
» okay.
>> And and they were they were making I'll

249
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:36,320
say chicken noises when I was there, but
[clears throat] it was not

250
00:26:34,559 --> 00:26:39,600
» they laid an egg and they sung that
chicken song.

251
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:43,840
» It was not loud whatsoever because I
know we've had neighbors of previous

252
00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:47,440
applicants mention
>> the the noise and it was I wasn't that

253
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,200
far away. I don't think [clears throat]
I'd have heard it if I were in the

254
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,938
driveway.
>> So, so the record is complete. Could you

255
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:57,640
demonstrate the chicken noise?
[laughter]

256
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:57,640
Why not?

257
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,198
» Not a dare. [laughter]

258
00:27:02,559 --> 00:27:07,440
» Okay.
Uh, any other questions or comments from

259
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,880
the board right now?
>> No, we're good.

260
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:15,279
» Uh, I'd like to open it up to the public
if anybody wants to speak for or against

261
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:19,279
this project.
>> Nope. Back to the board. Any other

262
00:27:17,919 --> 00:27:22,640
questions?
>> No.

263
00:27:19,679 --> 00:27:29,760
» No other questions. We did get one um
letter from the adjacent neighbor

264
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:34,400
and I believe that they were in support
of the chickens.

265
00:27:31,919 --> 00:27:38,880
Um but I think there was one cleanup
item from the the barn. I think once

266
00:27:37,039 --> 00:27:41,200
your accessory building was complete,
you were going to eliminate the old

267
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,440
building in the
>> back. I'm in the process of doing that.

268
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:51,279
» Okay. All right.
So,

269
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:54,240
I believe what is circled in red is the
building that's going to be eliminated

270
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,760
and the chicken coop is in front of it.
Correct?

271
00:27:55,279 --> 00:28:01,679
» Okay.
>> Okay. Other questions, comments from the

272
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:05,120
board?
>> Nope.

273
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,520
» All right. I'd like to make a motion for
a type two seeker uh type two action

274
00:28:07,039 --> 00:28:13,360
under seeker pursuant to NYCRR section
617.5 of the environmental code.

275
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,520
» Second.
>> Second. All those in favor

276
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:20,240
» I
>> I

277
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:25,039
» um
findings.

278
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:28,559
» I need a special use permit. Findings
>> findings are on your screen.

279
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:32,799
» Thank you.
>> Um

280
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:37,760
the use will not prevent an orderly and
reasonable use of adjacent properties or

281
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:42,399
the properties in adjacent use
districts. Um the chickens have been

282
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,840
there for a long time. I'm I'm sure the
previous some previous owner had

283
00:28:44,399 --> 00:28:51,520
chickens because that coupe has been
there for at least 30 years. Um the

284
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:56,480
public health safety and general welfare
and order of the town will not be

285
00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:03,039
adversely affected by the proposed use
or its proposed location. Um it's a over

286
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:07,039
2 acre parcel. All of the parcels on
that section of town are larger and

287
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:14,000
deeper for the most part and it does
back up to a working farm at this point.

288
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:18,000
So, um, it's certainly not going to
change the character of that. The use

289
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,039
will be in general harmony with and
promote the general purposes and intent

290
00:29:20,005 --> 00:29:25,520
[clears throat] of the most recent
comprehensive plan. Um, the use will not

291
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:29,840
interfere with the preservation of
general character of the neighborhood.

292
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:35,440
Again, the neighborhood is larger lots,
um,

293
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:39,440
large gardens, large farms.
uh physical characteristics and

294
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,279
topography of the proposed site make it
suitable for the proposed use. I would

295
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,760
say yes since it is existing as a
current use right now and the use

296
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:52,799
provides appropriate landscaping and or
forms of buffering. There is actually a

297
00:29:49,760 --> 00:30:00,320
hedge row between the chicken coupe and
the neighbor that's immediately to the

298
00:29:54,559 --> 00:30:04,559
east and um it's p partially sh um
shielded by the accessory structure from

299
00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:12,240
the neighbor to the west who's in
support of this. So

300
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:18,159
with that, I can make a motion to
grant a special use permit at 1054 Clem

301
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:25,039
Road for the applicants Angel and Sandy
Lagaris to allow a 6x9 foot chicken

302
00:30:22,159 --> 00:30:32,200
coupe to exist and to have no more than
eight hens on a 2.2 2acre parcel having

303
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,200
SPL number 06416-3

304
00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:41,200
I'm sorry-1-3
located in R2 single family residential

305
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:44,960
district. Um I would note that the
applicant at no time will have any

306
00:30:42,799 --> 00:30:50,320
roosters. It will just be chickens on
the property and that the um the roof

307
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:54,080
will be reconstructed and cleaned up so
that it just blends a little bit better.

308
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:57,760
» And a maximum flock of seven.
>> Okay.

309
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:01,679
a maximum of seven hens. I'll amend
that.

310
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,720
» Second um
one year

311
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:10,960
is what we'll do.
>> So we have historically we put a control

312
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:16,240
on it. Not that we have to but we have
>> I would I would recommend that it's the

313
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:22,159
permit would be good for one year
initially. The applicant will come back

314
00:31:18,399 --> 00:31:27,760
to this board after that one year and if
um if the use works with the neighbors

315
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:32,640
and there are no complaints then the
board at that time you can apply to have

316
00:31:29,679 --> 00:31:36,480
it extended. The maximum the permit can
go for is 5 years before you would have

317
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,279
to re reapply for it.
>> Okay.

318
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:43,360
» So if this is approved tonight then a
year from now you have to come back.

319
00:31:40,799 --> 00:31:46,159
» Okay.
>> Second.

320
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,240
» No there was a second. Um,
>> hello there. Okay.

321
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,840
» Mrs. Vololo,
>> I

322
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,679
» Mr. Senola,
>> hi.

323
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,120
» Mr. Corso,
>> hi.

324
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,919
» Mr. Short,
>> I

325
00:31:56,399 --> 00:32:02,080
» and Mr. Spanado.
>> I,

326
00:31:58,799 --> 00:32:05,840
» you have your permit. Um, it's a
one-year permit, so the town will reach

327
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:10,960
out to you. You will have to come back
next year for a renewal. Um, again,

328
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:16,399
without having any complaints in the
past. Um, if you don't have any

329
00:32:13,519 --> 00:32:20,159
complaints, uh, come back and go through
this process again and, uh, give you a

330
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,480
renewal.
>> Okay. Thank you so much.

331
00:32:21,679 --> 00:32:25,640
» Have a great night.
>> Thank you.

332
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:35,240
» Um, next up, 400 Lake Road if applicant
uh, Mark Loenth.

333
00:32:37,279 --> 00:32:45,279
» Hello, I'm Mark Lowenth. I live at 400
Lake Road. Um, and we are asking for a

334
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:49,919
variance to put an addition on a
pre-existing non-conforming single

335
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:52,919
family home which we constructed in
2011.

336
00:32:58,559 --> 00:33:07,919
The um we've taken uh considerable pains
to blend the addition into the the rest

337
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:12,080
of the house. We've set done setbacks
that are further from the property line.

338
00:33:10,399 --> 00:33:17,760
There was non-conforming on the south
side as well as on the lakeside.

339
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:22,000
And um the finishes with the designer
and the architect will match the roof

340
00:33:19,679 --> 00:33:28,559
line as well as the materials with
stuckco stone uh and wood. So it does

341
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:33,360
not look like an addition. The lower
floor would be a screened in porch and a

342
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:38,799
storage room. And the upper floor, which
is contiguous with the rest of the

343
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:43,399
house, would be a laundry room, kind of
a flex room, and some closet space.

344
00:33:58,559 --> 00:34:05,519
Questions from the board?
There there'll be no access to the

345
00:34:03,679 --> 00:34:10,800
second floor one except as part of the
main bedroom suite. Then

346
00:34:07,919 --> 00:34:15,159
» uh this yes there would the only access
to second floor is the main bedroom

347
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,159
suite.

348
00:34:28,879 --> 00:34:34,560
Have you had any any discussions with
your neighbors? Any issues?

349
00:34:32,399 --> 00:34:40,639
» Well, the closest neighbor is my my
brother um who was supposed to be here,

350
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:44,399
but unfortunately he um had a fire in
his cabin last night which was destroyed

351
00:34:42,720 --> 00:34:50,879
which he just built and so he is not
here. Um the next neighbor is my other

352
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:58,079
brother. Um and on the other side
there's a a home um which nobody has

353
00:34:53,679 --> 00:35:01,119
lived in in over 15 years.
assuming you get get along with your

354
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,560
siblings. I don't know if my siblings
would approve.

355
00:35:02,720 --> 00:35:10,560
» Most of the time most of the time most
of the time the the home now um where

356
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,720
the addition is going to be positioned
you can't see it would not be able to

357
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:18,560
see it from the west side. You won't be
able to see it the south side. Really

358
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,400
the only area you'll be able to see it
from is from the lake and my brother's

359
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,040
home would be able to see a portion of
the roof when the leaves are off.

360
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:31,119
» Okay.
>> Okay. Other questions from the board?

361
00:35:29,429 --> 00:35:34,560
[clears throat]
>> No, not at this time.

362
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:38,119
» Okay. Uh, anybody want to speak for or
against this project?

363
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:50,320
» Good evening. Philip Miglarati, 382 Lake
Road. I'm about um five houses to the

364
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:56,079
west of the Loen Goose residence going
on Oklahoma Beach. Um, I've lived there

365
00:35:53,520 --> 00:36:01,280
about 10 years. Uh Lo and Gool Goose are
uh good neighbors. They have a lovely

366
00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:04,240
property. I have no concerns over what
they're doing. It's not going to affect

367
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:08,560
anybody. Not going to affect anybody's
lake views, which everyone is always

368
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:13,280
concerned with down there. And uh
lastly, if there is any um while the

369
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:18,240
work is being done, construction work,
if there is they are on a we are on a

370
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,720
common driveway there, if the truck has
to get in there and is going to be

371
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,320
blocking for any more than a few
minutes, I'm more than happy to open the

372
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,920
gate on my I have a private driveway
that goes out to Lake Road, I'm more

373
00:36:25,839 --> 00:36:31,200
than happy to open the gate so other
residents have access or for emergency

374
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,480
access.
>> Thank you.

375
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,880
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

376
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,880
» Anybody else wanted to speak for or
against?

377
00:36:49,839 --> 00:36:56,880
My name is, excuse [clears throat] me,
my name is Frank Shenko and I've

378
00:36:54,320 --> 00:37:01,160
submitted a letter. I don't know if you
had an opportunity to read it.

379
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,680
» Can you pull that up, Erica, or

380
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:19,400
I submitted a response online and I
dropped another item off this morning at

381
00:37:15,359 --> 00:37:19,400
the main desk.

382
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:36,079
» Erica, is that in your file there? This
is what

383
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:40,320
» it's not in the on the drive. It was
sent to all the board members this

384
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:44,480
morning uh via email, but it's right
here on the screen.

385
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:49,119
» I have it right here. I'll uh I'll read
what I have in front of me.

386
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:52,480
» This is what he submitted online.
>> Okay.

387
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:55,839
» So,
he can summarize it.

388
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:59,359
» Do you want to summarize what you wrote,
sir?

389
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:04,320
» I'm sorry. I I've got hearing aids. Do
>> Do you want to summarize what you wrote?

390
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:09,520
I'm sorry.
>> Do you want to summarize what you wrote?

391
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:14,320
» Kind of give a brief summary.
>> Yes. I have been arrested

392
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:18,680
» in into
>> the mic. Sorry.

393
00:38:22,351 --> 00:38:28,800
[clears throat]
The property that I have at 390 Lake

394
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:37,440
Road has been in the family about 100
years. I have owned it for 40 years. Uh

395
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:44,560
over my time there, I worked a number of
years ago with Katherine Thomas to help

396
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:50,320
in the sewer project. Uh the initial
request was not approved. So, I was part

397
00:38:47,359 --> 00:38:56,560
of a small group to go out in campus
homeowners in the Oklahoma Beach area in

398
00:38:53,280 --> 00:39:03,280
the uh Sandbar area to get additional
votes to get the sewers approved.

399
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:09,200
I was involved in getting Senator
Schumer

400
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:16,640
down to Oklahoma Beach because we are
suffering severe erosion problems.

401
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:21,520
I started in 19
92 to try to work with the Department of

402
00:39:19,839 --> 00:39:27,920
Transportation
so the Oklahoma Beach property owners

403
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:33,680
could acquire the abandoned railroad.
And when those options were made, that

404
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:40,240
opportunity was made
by the Department of Transportation,

405
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:46,720
four of us and the addresses from 390 to
390 whatever. Uh those offers were

406
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:51,320
rescended because two property owners
refused to sign a release document.

407
00:39:56,240 --> 00:40:04,960
So we're we're in a situation and I hope
to I guess

408
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:08,000
create a condition as
uh

409
00:40:07,152 --> 00:40:15,680
[clears throat]
as their grandfather wanted to do and

410
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:20,480
that is to get access to the uh railroad
property because for me in the years

411
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:24,800
that I've been there it's been a very
very difficult situation.

412
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:30,960
If you read the letter or look at the
pictures, we got flooding in the yard.

413
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:35,760
Uh [clears throat] when I
when I came here with a request to

414
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:42,320
expand the property,
and I have a picture to show you. When I

415
00:40:39,359 --> 00:40:48,640
came here to with a request to uh expand
the property,

416
00:40:44,720 --> 00:40:55,839
the uh board suggested or they told me
that I couldn't get closer than 15 1/2

417
00:40:52,240 --> 00:41:00,960
ft to the access road because I would
block the view of my neighbor looking

418
00:40:58,319 --> 00:41:07,119
out her kitchen window.
So for me, it's been a very very

419
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:13,200
difficult and long tenure.
at uh 390 Lake Road

420
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:21,040
and I feel I deserve the same
opportunity that other people along the

421
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:25,880
uh Sandbar and those at Oklahoma Beach
and that is to acquire the railroad

422
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,880
property.

423
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:38,560
» All right, Mr. She just what
>> can you get close to the mic

424
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:44,000
» the relevance of your concerns tonight
as related to the applicant's request.

425
00:41:41,839 --> 00:41:47,720
Can you tie those together?
>> I'm sorry. My

426
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:53,839
» Sure.
>> Given the comments that you've made

427
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:58,240
tonight.
>> Yes. How do those relate to the

428
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:00,720
applicant's
uh request for the variance this

429
00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:06,480
evening?
>> The two, one of the two applicants, both

430
00:42:03,839 --> 00:42:12,640
of them refused to sign a release
document so we could so we could acquire

431
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:15,839
the railroad property.
>> Okay. And and

432
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:18,720
» the railroad property offer was extended
from

433
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:23,119
» Okay. Just so that I understand. So the
fact that the applicant refused to sign

434
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:28,400
that are you asking us to deny the
application?

435
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:33,680
» There were the two the two brothers
refused to sign a release document

436
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:37,520
allowing four of us to acquire the
railroad company. That's correct.

437
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:43,040
» Okay. And that's the basis upon which
you're asking the board to deny the

438
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:48,720
applicants uh request this evening.
>> That is part of it. The other thing that

439
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:54,000
I would like and that is at my age uh I
had no idea whether or not Sarah is

440
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:58,720
going to remain in the property but I
would like to eliminate some of the

441
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:03,920
issues that we've been dealing with. If
you take a look at the pictures we get

442
00:43:01,599 --> 00:43:09,920
our driveway and parking area flooded
2/3 coming up. So basically I don't have

443
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:15,280
a good place to park in storms.
>> Okay. They acquired the railroad

444
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:22,240
property would give me an option
to park on the south side of the road.

445
00:43:18,079 --> 00:43:26,880
» And and is that opportunity still exist?
>> Pardon?

446
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:31,839
» Does that opportunity still exist?
>> I I don't know. I first of all, what I

447
00:43:29,359 --> 00:43:36,960
would have to get and that is a release
signature by the two brothers that said

448
00:43:35,119 --> 00:43:39,960
in fact we can acquire the railroad
property.

449
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:44,839
Okay. Very well. Thank you.

450
00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:54,800
» Uh, does anybody else want to speak for
against this property?

451
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:58,319
» Give the applicant opportunity
is

452
00:43:55,760 --> 00:44:06,000
» um I don't know if there's anything else
you want to add after uh both the both

453
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:12,000
the uh residents made comments. Uh I'm
not really very familiar with much of

454
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:16,720
what he said. Um
the whole railroad property has been

455
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:21,359
very nebulous. I think um my grandfather
actually spearheaded much of that more

456
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:27,200
than I believe he did. But I don't want
to argue about that. With regard to the

457
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:33,599
the the neighborhood itself, I would say
that is certainly anything we're going

458
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:39,040
to do is only going to enhance the
overall quality of the neighborhood. The

459
00:44:36,079 --> 00:44:43,920
landscaping will be as as appropriate as
the rest of the house is. You were there

460
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:49,280
yourself. You know, it's it's a nice
home and we tend to keep it in and keep

461
00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:53,280
we intend to keep it consistent with the
the rest of the house.

462
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:56,880
» Just out of curiosity, Mr. long ago. Did
you refuse to sign?

463
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,119
» I don't know anything about it. What
he's talking about is

464
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:02,640
» the first time you've heard of it?
>> No. No, I haven't. My

465
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:06,079
» No, I I said, "Is this the first time
that you've heard of this situation?"

466
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,599
» I've heard that of my brother not
wanting to sign it. Nobody really

467
00:45:08,240 --> 00:45:11,440
approached us about signing it.
>> Do you know what the basis was for that?

468
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:17,280
» Pardon me.
>> Do you know what the basis was for that?

469
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:22,480
» No. No, I don't.
>> He's 408. If if you look at he's up even

470
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,640
further. Did you see the pictures of his
property flooding?

471
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:27,440
» Pardon me.
>> Have you seen the pictures of his

472
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,280
property flooding?
>> Our property flooded as well.

473
00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:34,800
» My my my question was did you see the
pictures of No. Okay.

474
00:45:33,119 --> 00:45:38,720
» But we all flooded.
>> I guess my question is do you know

475
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:42,480
whether that's causally related to this
issue with the uh railroad?

476
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,319
» No. I would say that it was flood the
flooding is caused by the high lake

477
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,800
levels.
>> So the railroad has no impact on it.

478
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:52,000
» No. In my opinion, no. And I would say
that the engineers would say so as well.

479
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:56,560
» Very good.
>> All right. Clarify though. Um

480
00:45:54,079 --> 00:46:00,400
» the railroad property, the park to stay
out of the flooded areas is what I think

481
00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:03,520
he was looking for.
>> Yes. [clears throat] Everyone else along

482
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:09,040
Lake Road has had the opportunity to
purchase the property that's across from

483
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:13,839
the lane that goes to the houses along
Oklahoma Beach, which has allowed some

484
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:19,119
of them to actually do a driveway
through to get them to Lake Road or

485
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:23,200
extend this the building of their house
or give them additional spaces to park

486
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:29,200
when the lake does come up because the
lake does come up and and that shoreline

487
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:35,520
gets a little bit smaller every year.
So, um, my concern when I visited the

488
00:46:31,839 --> 00:46:39,599
property, um, when
the the construction is actually going

489
00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:45,040
to be on the side of your house that's
away from the access to the remaining 13

490
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:50,960
addresses on Oklahoma Beach.
>> Um,

491
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:54,640
is is there a means for the construction
crew to make sure that they don't block

492
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:59,839
that bridge and that access?
>> Yeah. What? There is a twocar parking

493
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:05,359
spot down next to the home. Yes. On the
garage. And then on the entrance road to

494
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:11,200
the property, which is about 300 ft.
It's mowed on both sides. And when we

495
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:15,599
constructed the home, when um Phil
constructed his home, when the there's

496
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,760
been three other homes constructed there
in recent years, that's where people

497
00:47:17,119 --> 00:47:22,160
park.
>> Okay. you know, so it's if somebody we

498
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:26,960
do have a good construction manager as
well as a good constru contractor who

499
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:29,839
make sure if I mean they're very
attentive to people's needs. If a

500
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:35,920
truck's going to be there more than 5
minutes, they'll move it. Uh Phil said

501
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:39,680
if this there was an emergency, they
would um he he would open his driveway

502
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:44,400
as well
>> because that was that was one of the

503
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:49,520
concerns I had just from even just an
emergency response point of view was

504
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:53,119
» the fire department comes down routinely
to make sure that they can get around

505
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:57,440
that corner. And even when we had
construction that we had a dumpster

506
00:47:55,119 --> 00:48:00,480
there, they came down to make sure that
they could get underneath the underpass

507
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,640
and around the corner. They're bringing
a small truck down there. They're not

508
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:03,920
bringing [clears throat] one of the big
trucks.

509
00:48:03,119 --> 00:48:07,160
» No, but
>> who maint

510
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,319
who maintains that?
>> It's

511
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,839
» It just
>> the walls are the engineers told us to

512
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:20,560
not take down the walls. They didn't
know what would happen to the bank and

513
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:23,920
the top is blocked off. But but the top
I was a little concerned walking under

514
00:48:22,319 --> 00:48:29,200
it when I was around the property just
because it is is

515
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:32,400
a little
it's old. It's old and it just there

516
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:35,599
would look like there were pieces of it
that could fall.

517
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:41,440
» There have been and
the um the ties could be removed but the

518
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:47,319
risk with that is um you have to
maintain the metal the walls

519
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,319
» could collapse.

520
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:52,480
But no one maintains that. That's
>> No, no, it's it's posted not to walk

521
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:58,160
across it. And
>> let me ask you this. If if it if the

522
00:48:54,640 --> 00:49:03,440
opportunity came up again where the
railroad property became

523
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:11,040
um available,
would would you sign off on those

524
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:13,200
properties being able to purchase that?
>> I I

525
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,800
» Again, it's all hypothetical at this
point.

526
00:49:13,520 --> 00:49:20,559
» I don't know much about it. I would have
to look at it. I I mean I don't I don't

527
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:24,640
frankly know why they couldn't before.
Um so I don't want to speak to something

528
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,000
I don't know. I don't know really know
anything about that.

529
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:31,440
» Okay.
>> As I said um when I talked to Josh, my

530
00:49:29,119 --> 00:49:37,839
grandfather acquired their property in
bits and pieces over the years. So it

531
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:42,240
was one the original house was where our
home is and then he acquired and one

532
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:47,520
piece and then another piece and then
another piece over the course of 50

533
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:53,240
years.
Okay.

534
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:53,240
Other questions from the board?

535
00:49:53,680 --> 00:50:04,319
No. Okay. Um, I'd like to make a motion
for a type two action under secret

536
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:07,040
pursuant to NYCRR section 617.5 of the
environmental code.

537
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:09,359
» Second.
>> Second.

538
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,359
» All those in favor?
>> I.

539
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,880
» Karin, you want to do the
>> No.

540
00:50:15,839 --> 00:50:19,359
» No. Okay.
>> Someone else's turn.

541
00:50:18,079 --> 00:50:24,800
» Okay. Chris.
>> Sure. Uh

542
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:29,119
the uh
addition uh will not impact the

543
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:35,520
essential character of the neighborhood
or be a detriment to nearby properties.

544
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:42,319
It uh mostly won't be visible to the
general public at all and will not block

545
00:50:38,720 --> 00:50:47,040
any lake views if if approved.
uh based on the uh the applicant's

546
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:51,599
needs, there were no other real
alternates because it needed to go uh as

547
00:50:49,599 --> 00:50:57,920
an expansion of the master bedroom suite
and then using the space underneath it

548
00:50:53,359 --> 00:51:05,119
as a uh covered porch area. So there
really no were no other uh alternatives

549
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:12,960
considered. Uh the request is not
substantial or contextually significant

550
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:18,640
uh from from the zoning required.
Uh

551
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:22,319
it uh will not increase uh any type of
adverse effect or impact the physical

552
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:26,880
environmental conditions in the
neighborhood or the district and more

553
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:31,440
importantly to the uh immediate
neighbors.

554
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:36,880
And although the the difficulty is
self-created, it is the minimum relief

555
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:42,880
necessary to allow the applicant to do
what he needs to do with his property.

556
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:48,559
» And I'll just add um the views views of
the lake are not going to be affected uh

557
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:55,040
with this uh variance being provided. Uh
the addition is not going to be uh

558
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:59,040
visible from uh basically from from uh
any of the properties surrounding

559
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:05,599
properties. I'll be at the property to
the I guess it be the souththeast. Uh

560
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:12,640
we'll be able to see the roof of the uh
of the addition uh that the variance is

561
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:17,599
being required for. Um
the location of the addition is limited

562
00:52:15,119 --> 00:52:23,760
to the location that it's at just due to
the uh unique shape of the property as

563
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:28,720
well and how close uh it is to the to
the water's edge. um not not being able

564
00:52:26,559 --> 00:52:33,440
to provide get any closer to the water's
edge um as well. So, uh this is a

565
00:52:31,839 --> 00:52:38,640
non-conforming
building. Um

566
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,721
so, yeah. Anybody want to add anything
else to it?

567
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:45,359
» Um I just have a question. Do you have
[clears throat] approval from the DEEC

568
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:48,800
for this or the Army Corps of Engineers
yet?

569
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:52,720
» Um we contacted them and as long as
we're not going closer to the lake,

570
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:58,400
that's why we deliberately set back six
feet.

571
00:52:53,200 --> 00:53:02,720
» Okay. from um the existing north
north wall of the existing house which

572
00:53:00,559 --> 00:53:07,119
was where the exact two inches inside of
where the existing

573
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,599
» the original house were two inches
inside of that and now we're 6 feet back

574
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:15,119
from that.
>> Okay. All right. So they don't need

575
00:53:11,359 --> 00:53:18,160
right any further permits for this
>> from the DEC.

576
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:21,839
» You' still need building permits.
>> Anybody else want to add anything

577
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:28,960
further?
>> Okay. Um only condition I'm I'm going to

578
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:35,200
add to it is uh during construction
um the construction manager and the

579
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:39,920
owner are responsible for maintaining uh
drive access through uh through the

580
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:45,119
property.
Um let's see. So, I'd like to make a

581
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:48,480
motion uh for an area variance to allow
uh the alteration,

582
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:53,280
sorry, the extension of a pre-existing
non-conforming single family home in

583
00:53:50,880 --> 00:54:01,280
association with the construction of a
460 square ft addition on a 0.45 acre

584
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:04,280
parcel having SPL063.06-1-19.1
06-1-19.1

585
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:12,240
located in R1 single family district
under section 350-10

586
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:15,599
and 350-
95 the code of the town of Webster.

587
00:54:15,119 --> 00:54:19,040
» Second
>> second

588
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:20,559
» Mr. Short
>> I

589
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,240
» Mr. Sola
>> I

590
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,319
» Mr. Corso
>> I

591
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,160
» Mr.
I

592
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:31,040
» Mr. Bola
>> I

593
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:34,720
» you have uh the area variance for the
addition you still have to get all uh

594
00:54:33,119 --> 00:54:39,599
all required building permits.
>> Okay.

595
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:41,839
» Uh one year to to start uh meaningful um
action.

596
00:54:40,319 --> 00:54:50,102
» It'll be started soon. Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you.

597
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:52,122
Uh going back to 50 to Hackberry way.
[clears throat]

598
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:01,200
How's it going?
>> Good. How are you?

599
00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:06,160
» Good.
>> Um, so if you could tell us a little uh

600
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:09,119
name, address, tell us a little bit
about the uh the project that you have

601
00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:15,839
uh going forward.
>> Uh name is Austin Sagio. Just purchased

602
00:55:12,079 --> 00:55:19,359
the home. Uh builders had told us it'd
be no problem to put an addition onto

603
00:55:17,280 --> 00:55:21,920
the property. Obviously finding out that
there's a variance for everything.

604
00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:28,160
Thankfully, my dad knows a little bit
about this, but we got young kids just

605
00:55:25,839 --> 00:55:31,359
want more space in the house. It's more
important to us than having outside

606
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:36,160
space cuz we don't get to use it all the
time. So,

607
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:40,040
okay,
questions from the board.

608
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:51,440
That's a brand new house already doing
addition, huh? That's what they sold us

609
00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:55,599
on. We knew it was too small and they're
like, "Hey, yeah, we can put this

610
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:58,079
edition on. No problem." So, fun news.
>> And here you are.

611
00:55:56,559 --> 00:56:01,839
» Yep.
>> Got it.

612
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:04,960
» With no builders to show up. I love
that.

613
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,559
» Got to love salespeople, right?
>> Mhm.

614
00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:13,119
» Oh, that was tonight. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Right.

615
00:56:10,559 --> 00:56:18,640
Questions from the board. Um, Erica, is
this a cluster subdivision

616
00:56:15,839 --> 00:56:26,160
or is this
>> the lot seem to cluster?

617
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:28,720
» Um, I would have to double check.
>> Looks like they're tied,

618
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:29,760
» but I believe it is.
>> Okay.

619
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:33,359
» 281.
>> Just cuz they seem

620
00:56:31,839 --> 00:56:38,640
condensed.
>> Yes, this is an LMR inside of a single

621
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:44,520
family residential.
>> Okay. So

622
00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:44,520
spots are going to be

623
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:10,799
uh threeseason. So covered porch. What
is is it three seasons screened in? What

624
00:57:10,240 --> 00:57:14,079
is the
>> We plan to screen it in eventually.

625
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:15,760
They're just going to cover it though.
>> So just the roof.

626
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:19,400
» Yes.
>> Got it. Okay.

627
00:57:23,599 --> 00:57:30,880
» I think on the on the plans.
>> So you mentioned you were just you were

628
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:34,799
looking for more space
>> for the house

629
00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:38,240
» being outside.
Can you elaborate a little bit more on

630
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:42,480
that since it's not
>> I mean the house is it's I I don't want

631
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:45,599
to sound like that but it's 1500 square
feet. We moved from a house that was

632
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:47,839
1500 ft.
>> It's the same exact size. It's split

633
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,799
differently.
>> But this is outdoor space. This is not

634
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:55,400
indoor space, right?
>> Yeah. Exactly.

635
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:55,400
» Okay.

636
00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:01,920
You said the intention eventually is to
potent is to screen it in. Again, that's

637
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,119
not what you're doing now, but that's
>> Yes. Maybe finish it. I don't know.

638
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:08,760
Whatever.
>> Okay.

639
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,760
» Yeah.

640
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:13,920
» Other questions from the board?
>> Yeah.

641
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:19,520
» Yeah.
>> John.

642
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:25,520
» No. Uh, anybody from the uh public want
to speak for or against this project?

643
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:30,079
» No. Have you had any discussion with any
of your neighbors? Uh, I drove through

644
00:58:27,359 --> 00:58:32,720
the neighborhood. It um it's definitely
very visible

645
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:35,440
» where it is. Mhm.
>> So, any any dialogue with any of your

646
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:39,839
neighbors?
>> Haven't really. I mean, we just moved in

647
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:47,440
and we have one neighbor to our side at
the moment. That seems nice, but

648
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:52,960
» Okay, fair enough. Um Okay. Um
any other comments from the board?

649
00:58:49,520 --> 00:58:58,079
» I just say the the odd shape of the lot
really if he had a normal rectangular

650
00:58:55,839 --> 00:59:02,319
lot, I don't think he'd even be here.
>> Agreed.

651
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:08,079
» Okay. Well, and that's a feature and
perhaps maybe the builder excluded it on

652
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:13,280
this particular home, but um when we get
this type of subdivision, typically that

653
00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:21,280
little covered porch is part of the back
of the home on I'll say 80% of them. And

654
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:24,720
I imagine this won't be the last one
that we see within this subdivision.

655
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:28,640
Even if you look down Arowwood, there's
there's a couple of them already that

656
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:34,799
they already exist. Um, but because it's
a corner lot, which makes the backyard

657
00:59:31,359 --> 00:59:39,760
smaller than normal, there's there's
nothing that this applicant could add

658
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:44,000
here without without a variance.
>> Yeah. Which I had no idea about to be

659
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,400
completely honest with you. That's
that's all dad. That's he knows what

660
00:59:45,839 --> 00:59:51,119
he's doing.
>> About that.

661
00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:55,920
» Other comments?
>> No. I'd like to make a motion for a type

662
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:59,280
two action under secret pursuant to NYCR
section 617.5 of the environmental code.

663
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:02,720
» Second.
>> All those in favor? I

664
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:04,559
» uh
>> I'll run through the findings if you

665
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:07,680
like.
>> Okay.

666
01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:09,280
» I was going to ask John if you want to
do them.

667
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:12,480
» Oh, I No, John can do it.
>> No, be my guest. [laughter]

668
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,760
» I was going to scare you.
>> Well, since you told I told you no

669
01:00:13,920 --> 01:00:19,760
before because I just didn't have my
papers ready. Um, I'll I'm going to say

670
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:23,040
the request is not out of character in
the neighborhood and that some of the

671
01:00:21,280 --> 01:00:28,240
homes already on Arowwood have that
feature built in, an external covered

672
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:32,319
porch. Um, the det there will not be a
detriment created to nearby properties.

673
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:38,400
Right now, that side of the street is
fairly unbuilt. It looks like they're

674
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:41,440
working on developing it, but um it's
it's it's not going to impact anybody.

675
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:46,640
It's certainly not going to hurt
anybody's line of sight. Um, it's not

676
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:52,400
too close to anybody's house.
achievable by any other method? No, not

677
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:56,880
in this instance. In that the um the
back of the house is the logical

678
01:00:54,000 --> 01:01:01,119
location and it's a very short backyard.
Um

679
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:05,359
no adverse physical or environmental
impacts to the site or to the

680
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:08,359
neighborhood. That's as stated. Um the
difficulty

681
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:17,839
is or is not self-created. I'm going to
say it's really not self-created in that

682
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:20,960
it's the size of the lot. Um and and the
builder obviously didn't include it

683
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:24,400
because he didn't want to come here and
get a variance before he built the

684
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:28,559
house. So um certainly not an
undesirable change. We get such a short

685
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:32,799
season that you want to be able to have
a covered area to be able to enjoy a

686
01:01:31,119 --> 01:01:37,520
little bit more of the non- snow weather
without rain or excessive not that we

687
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:42,079
get excessive sun but um
>> sometimes

688
01:01:38,079 --> 01:01:46,742
» it it it it does make sense. So, um,
anything else anyone would like to add

689
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:46,742
to that? [cough and clears throat]

690
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:56,240
» No.
>> All right. I will make a motion to grant

691
01:01:52,319 --> 01:02:05,920
an area variance at 522 Hackberry Way.
And um it is to allow a covered porch

692
01:02:02,160 --> 01:02:14,839
area that has a rear setback of 43 feet
where 50 ft is required and it's on a.34

693
01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:14,839
acre parcel with SPL number 065.02-5-10.

694
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:24,240
And this is in a an LMR district in the
town of Webster.

695
01:02:21,359 --> 01:02:29,200
» Second.
>> Second.

696
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:31,680
» Okay. I heard everybody.
>> Mrs. Volo.

697
01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,040
» I
>> Mr. Short.

698
01:02:32,559 --> 01:02:34,880
» Hi,
>> Mr. Spanado.

699
01:02:34,319 --> 01:02:36,559
» I
>> Mr. Sola.

700
01:02:36,079 --> 01:02:38,880
» Hi.
>> Mr. Corso.

701
01:02:37,599 --> 01:02:42,559
» Hi.
>> You have your uh variance. You still

702
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:46,400
have to go uh through and get your
building permits before you can start

703
01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:50,559
any work. Uh you have one year for
meaningful um progress.

704
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:53,720
» Awesome. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

705
01:02:55,680 --> 01:03:04,240
» All right. Uh next up, uh Waterview
Apartments phase three. If uh the

706
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:07,559
applicant from Legacy Development can
come on up.

707
01:03:16,799 --> 01:03:24,720
Good evening. I'm Chris Nadler, general
counsel for MarkV Enterprises. I'm here

708
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:29,760
tonight with Ed Martin from Paso, our
design engineer team. Uh our goal

709
01:03:27,359 --> 01:03:36,240
tonight is a renewal of the two
variances that were granted by this

710
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:43,359
zoning board uh in November of 2024. An
18.7 front setback where 75 ft is

711
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:47,599
required and a 38.5
district buffer where 100 ft is

712
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:53,680
required.
Um as as you know this project has gone

713
01:03:51,680 --> 01:04:02,640
through a lot of uh change a lot of
reduction. Uh in early 2024

714
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:08,400
uh late 23 24 early 24 mark started
meeting with the town and presented

715
01:04:05,119 --> 01:04:16,400
applications uh originally for two
threestory buildings with 90 units.

716
01:04:12,559 --> 01:04:20,799
Um after uh four or five meetings with
this board and five or six meetings with

717
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:28,480
the planning board, the project was
reduced in scale uh and now features uh

718
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:34,880
twotory townhouse buildings with 56
units, a single driveway to Mchuan and

719
01:04:31,839 --> 01:04:40,400
uh significant landscape buffers. Um
this board actually required um the

720
01:04:37,599 --> 01:04:45,039
landscape buffers at its meeting. I just
was looking at the findings um to

721
01:04:43,039 --> 01:04:50,480
increase total vegetation and buffer
zone and work with the town to provide

722
01:04:47,520 --> 01:04:54,720
buffering in Mchuan Road right ofway.
And Ed will tell you a little bit about

723
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:59,920
the the difference or the uh the
distances involved and I mentioned them

724
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:06,079
when I was here last. Um but the
district buffer

725
01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:12,400
uh of 38.5 ft doesn't really reflect the
actual distances involved. the the

726
01:05:10,319 --> 01:05:19,680
building to the border between the
districts is 38.5 ft. But then there's

727
01:05:15,920 --> 01:05:27,920
another 25 22 ft between the district
buffer and the edge of Mchuan, making

728
01:05:22,559 --> 01:05:34,079
the total distance to Mchuan 58.5 ft and
the total distance to the closest house

729
01:05:31,599 --> 01:05:40,240
152 ft.
Uh the currently the town houses that we

730
01:05:36,799 --> 01:05:49,039
have uh in existence in phase two are as
close as 66 ft to the houses on Mchuan.

731
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:54,799
Um so this is again the same just a
renewal of variances that were granted

732
01:05:51,599 --> 01:06:00,880
by the board in December 2024.
No conditions have changed. This board

733
01:05:58,079 --> 01:06:05,200
has received significant
correspondence from our neighbors along

734
01:06:02,799 --> 01:06:11,200
Mchuan Road. I don't think that changes
any of the conditions that were in place

735
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:15,920
or uh the situation that was in place
when this board considered uh the

736
01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:21,119
variance factors and granted this these
variances in December 2024. So, what

737
01:06:19,119 --> 01:06:25,440
we're asking for tonight is that this
board confirm that no conditions have

738
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:30,559
changed
uh and renew our two variances.

739
01:06:28,559 --> 01:06:37,039
Uh I'm going to turn it over to Ed to
explain one why uh some of this time has

740
01:06:34,240 --> 01:06:41,441
passed and two some of the uh reductions
that were made in conjunction with this

741
01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:44,116
board and with the planning board.
[cough]

742
01:06:42,096 --> 01:06:44,116
[clears throat]

743
01:06:44,559 --> 01:06:50,960
» Thank you, Chris. For the record, my
name is Ed Martin. I'm a licensed

744
01:06:48,160 --> 01:06:54,480
engineer with Passerro Associates. Um,
as Chris mentioned, there's quite a

745
01:06:52,480 --> 01:07:00,400
history to this project and most
recently, uh, dating back to 2024.

746
01:06:57,599 --> 01:07:05,280
The the buildings were changed, reduced
in size to go from the two 45 unit

747
01:07:02,799 --> 01:07:09,119
buildings to these generally 10 unit, we
have one six unit off to the west, but

748
01:07:07,599 --> 01:07:13,280
to be more consistent with the units
that you see to the east and to the

749
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:19,680
south. And our initial layout included
individual driveways for the the

750
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:23,200
building accessing uh MUN, but uh the
feedback from the town was they wanted

751
01:07:21,200 --> 01:07:28,000
it to be more single family in nature.
And so we reduced it to that single

752
01:07:25,039 --> 01:07:33,039
access point um and pushed the building
further to the south to to increase that

753
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:37,599
that space and added significant
plantings. Uh there it's north of 80

754
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:42,480
plantings along that that rightway to
create a nice buffer. Um, there's

755
01:07:39,839 --> 01:07:49,200
another critical part to this whole
story that I think this board needs to

756
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:54,559
realize. In in January of 2025, the DEEC
initiated some changes in the storm

757
01:07:51,119 --> 01:08:00,319
water uh or I'm sorry, the wetland regs
and they were challenged by developers

758
01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:04,160
across the state. Uh, the DEC
subsequently

759
01:08:02,079 --> 01:08:10,079
filed an appeal and they were going to
fight that to keep them in place. They

760
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:15,520
they have since revoked the they revoked
their appeal and so we are literally

761
01:08:12,400 --> 01:08:19,759
operating under preJanuary 2025
regulations for wetlands. Why is that

762
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:24,480
important? Because if that had never
been in place in the first place, they

763
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:28,960
would have they would have uh pursued
construction. We would have avoided this

764
01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:34,080
whole situation. So literally nothing
has changed. There was this delay caused

765
01:08:30,719 --> 01:08:36,719
by the DEEC. We complied with the town
and said we'll wait for their

766
01:08:35,279 --> 01:08:41,040
jurisdiction to come back. And by the
way, it was for a pocket wetland offsite

767
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:46,480
to the west. Was not impacted
whatsoever. But because of this lawsuit

768
01:08:43,759 --> 01:08:53,199
that got filed, an appeal that was filed
by the DEEC and subsequently revoked, we

769
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:58,239
are under pre January 2025 DEC wetland
rags. And so, as Chris said, the

770
01:08:56,159 --> 01:09:02,400
conditions truly have not changed
whatsoever. So, we're just simply asking

771
01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:05,520
you to to more or less reinstate the
variances that have already been

772
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:09,440
granted. And so, I guess at this point,
we'd be happy to answer questions that

773
01:09:07,679 --> 01:09:15,279
you might have.
>> So, uh,

774
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:18,480
does staff know is the board that's
voting tonight, is it the same board?

775
01:09:17,839 --> 01:09:23,600
» It is not.
>> It is not.

776
01:09:20,719 --> 01:09:28,560
» Okay.
And who's who is not?

777
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:32,400
» I wasn't here. I think John Jim I don't
know if you were an alternate at that

778
01:09:30,880 --> 01:09:34,640
point but I don't
>> an alternate back then.

779
01:09:33,440 --> 01:09:40,319
» Yeah.
>> It's s safe to say that the two two

780
01:09:37,279 --> 01:09:48,440
board members who were not here did not
by any chance review the original

781
01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:48,440
application. No. No. Okay.

782
01:09:48,799 --> 01:09:58,159
All right. So
the board and I and I don't frankly

783
01:09:55,440 --> 01:10:03,920
remember how
comprehensive the first presentation was

784
01:10:01,199 --> 01:10:09,520
of course was versus tonight which
appears to be more

785
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:12,640
summary in in content. That's my my
sense.

786
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:17,719
I'm open to be challenged on that. But
the board should be treating this as a

787
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:17,719
new application.

788
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:26,719
But it is
uh generally bound

789
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:34,960
by its administrative precedent
uh which granted these

790
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:40,199
uh variances. However, if
the board was to find some change of

791
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:40,199
circumstance,

792
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:46,800
you know, we arguably it would need to
be substantial

793
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:51,840
so that it wasn't your decision if you
changed it wasn't or is not arbitrary or

794
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:56,640
capriccious. The change could be in the
zoning law, could be in neighborhood

795
01:10:53,760 --> 01:11:02,480
density, it could be environmental, it
could be traffic. Uh those are all

796
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:08,400
options. Or
if the board found that they had to

797
01:11:05,679 --> 01:11:14,239
correct an error
that had previously made in terms of an

798
01:11:11,280 --> 01:11:19,040
abuse of discretion or they or the board
thinks it misinterpreted the law. So, I

799
01:11:16,320 --> 01:11:23,440
just set that out there to give you
some general guidelines in in terms of

800
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:27,360
how to treat this in so much as it was
previously approved and the applicant

801
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:32,640
just
ex uh

802
01:11:29,440 --> 01:11:38,640
approval expired and essentially
it's the same application.

803
01:11:35,679 --> 01:11:44,640
So,
and I I I'll I'll um defer to council. I

804
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:48,560
just want what I want to be certain is
that

805
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:54,880
u
I I don't remember the specifics of the

806
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:59,120
last application and I could be
conflating it [clears throat] to some

807
01:11:56,400 --> 01:12:04,560
degree with your last visit here but my
sense is it was in greater detail. Maybe

808
01:12:02,880 --> 01:12:10,000
staff says we have the same materials
but the presentation was more brief.

809
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:15,120
» You know I think that could be true. I
I'm certain that's true as of today. uh

810
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:19,840
we appeared in front of this board at
least for I think five times on the

811
01:12:18,320 --> 01:12:25,840
original
um so I've presented on a 90 unit uh

812
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:30,960
project I've presented on an 88 unit
project um and then several meetings

813
01:12:28,239 --> 01:12:36,320
where it was this design but wiggling
stuff around and and coming to uh you

814
01:12:33,199 --> 01:12:41,360
know agreements on what would be uh
appropriate and what would pass uh the

815
01:12:39,040 --> 01:12:46,320
variance tests and what this board was
comfortable able with that would that

816
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:50,800
would uh satisfy those tests. Uh our
application materials that Pasro

817
01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:58,880
submitted I know probably about 3 months
ago are uh identical. Um this board has

818
01:12:55,679 --> 01:13:06,159
uh those in front of them. I am happy to
uh uh go further into depth. Uh Ed and I

819
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:08,960
are happy to go further into depth. Um I
think you have pretty much what I would

820
01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:13,920
present.
>> Yeah. So let's let's be clear on that.

821
01:13:10,480 --> 01:13:19,440
So, in terms of what the board has
tonight

822
01:13:16,480 --> 01:13:24,640
or has been directed to access wise, is
that the

823
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:27,840
is it the entirety of the application?
Because I I'm not saying council that

824
01:13:26,159 --> 01:13:30,320
you need to do a full-blown
presentation. I

825
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,800
» I can go about an hour and a half if you
want.

826
01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:38,800
» Well, I Right. Uh, but I just want to
make sure that since

827
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:44,159
there was some brevity tonight that
particularly those two board members

828
01:13:41,120 --> 01:13:49,120
that were not here for that that they
were provided

829
01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:53,760
uh the information
that was within the prior application.

830
01:13:51,280 --> 01:14:00,560
Not not not the application that was
changed but the one that was approved.

831
01:13:57,440 --> 01:14:02,800
Look at you.
>> That's

832
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:07,280
» one of the pieces of information that
was missing with this particular

833
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:12,239
application. Um, and I think it was one
of the questions that we had last time,

834
01:14:10,400 --> 01:14:18,239
this was before this board two months
ago was um in trying to determine how

835
01:14:16,239 --> 01:14:22,560
these buildings fit within the character
of the existing neighborhood. And we

836
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:28,000
didn't have any front elevations of the
buildings. So, can we pull the Thank

837
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:31,360
you, Erica. Um because that that was one
of the big questions especially for the

838
01:14:29,679 --> 01:14:37,120
two members that were not present for
this was

839
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:40,159
the footprint is quite different than
what the neighbors across the street

840
01:14:38,560 --> 01:14:45,040
have to look at every day.
>> Understood. And here this is what it's

841
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:48,480
going to look like. This is uh
>> this would be the building across from

842
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:52,080
Muan. That would be exactly uh the
building across from Mchuan where

843
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:59,440
» well not exactly
>> except that except that there will be uh

844
01:14:55,360 --> 01:15:06,320
significant landscape buffering and
uh not individual driveways so or not

845
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:10,480
individual driveways to Mchuan.
>> You'd have an internal road with a

846
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:13,480
single drive out onto Mu.
>> Exactly.

847
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:21,440
So 10 trees is substantial in your
opinion.

848
01:15:18,640 --> 01:15:26,560
» Uh I believe it's 88
>> across Mchuan

849
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:30,080
» in front of the the the 10 units across
that face [clears throat] Mchuan. There

850
01:15:27,679 --> 01:15:33,920
are 10 trees.
I'm not talking about sitewise. I'm just

851
01:15:31,679 --> 01:15:39,360
talking about in front of Mchuan.
>> Erica, can you go back to the uh the

852
01:15:36,159 --> 01:15:44,880
graphic plan again? So
you mentioned 80 plantings. I'm assuming

853
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:47,679
you're talking about the entire site. I
guess the question

854
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:52,000
» No, the 80 is just along the the
frontage of the road there

855
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:56,320
» of just Mchuan. So this graphic is not
representative of the plantings, I

856
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:58,400
guess, is is the question
>> or comment.

857
01:15:57,040 --> 01:16:02,320
» Well, you can look on the screen and
count.

858
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:07,440
» No, that's that's a a rendering. Our the
site plan that was submitted with the

859
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:12,239
variance application shows is a separate
landscape

860
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:17,960
plan. Yes.
This is

861
01:16:14,960 --> 01:16:17,960
» Chris.

862
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:28,080
» So just the applicant right there. Let's
just Can you identify the map that

863
01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:36,159
you're referencing with the 80 plans?
>> Sure. It's sheet C106 drawing set

864
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:41,360
» dated uh May of 2026.
>> Yeah. and and this board uh when it

865
01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:47,480
granted the variances
directed as a as a condition

866
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:47,480
uh

867
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:55,520
that uh to increase total vegetation in
buffer zone to work I think that means

868
01:16:52,960 --> 01:17:01,840
and work with town to provide buffering
in Mchuan Road right away and so that

869
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:06,239
increase was made up to the 80 plantings
um and as we get closer to building

870
01:17:04,320 --> 01:17:09,920
permits we'll work with the town
uh add plantings in the in the Mchu and

871
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:16,400
right ofway.
>> So I just want to chime in. Um so we did

872
01:17:14,080 --> 01:17:21,520
share that with the various departments
at our project review committee meeting

873
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:28,000
and the sewer department particularly
expressed some concerns with planting of

874
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:32,719
vegetation in the town's rightway
especially in close proximity to

875
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:37,920
underground utilities such as sewer
pipes. So it's while it was an initial

876
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:44,159
condition of this board to encourage
more buffering, the town really doesn't

877
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:48,040
want to encourage vegetation in the
highway right ofway.

878
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,199
So I just want to state that for the
board's consideration.

879
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:58,000
» And [clears throat] we've we've worked
in a lot of towns where that there's the

880
01:17:55,120 --> 01:18:01,920
exact same concern. There's things we
can do. We're happy to sit down with the

881
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:06,000
sewer department and say, you know, we
can map the the exact location of things

882
01:18:04,159 --> 01:18:09,360
and exact location of where they're
going to put their equipment if they

883
01:18:07,679 --> 01:18:14,800
have to dig something up and there's
plants that can be uh planted. We're

884
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:19,159
happy to still have that condition um to
work with them and figure something out.

885
01:18:21,120 --> 01:18:32,159
So, um,
if you can just

886
01:18:27,920 --> 01:18:37,840
for this board, the unit in the middle,
what is the offset from the property

887
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:41,199
line, not from the road, but from the
property line? And then if you can also

888
01:18:39,199 --> 01:18:45,920
give it to me from the uh from the road
edge

889
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:50,960
» as well as the property to the uh to the
uh west as well. Ed, ask which unit

890
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:54,800
because you said the unit in the middle.
>> Yeah. So, I'm talking the middle one and

891
01:18:53,600 --> 01:19:00,080
this one and this one, right? Because
the these two are the closest and then

892
01:18:57,440 --> 01:19:04,199
this one's a little further away. So,
why don't you give me all three of them?

893
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:19,760
So, working from west to east
to Mchuan, uh, it's 38.5 ft.

894
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:21,280
» That's to the road or to the property
line.

895
01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:29,320
» Uh, to that's to the rightway, I'm
sorry. Which is the property line?

896
01:19:25,280 --> 01:19:29,320
» This is the rightway right here.

897
01:19:32,239 --> 01:19:37,920
» Then it is 44.8 for the middle one.

898
01:19:39,920 --> 01:19:46,800
and 54.7 for the eastern one. And those
are all to the right away.

899
01:19:45,360 --> 01:19:52,600
» And do you know what it is to the road
edge?

900
01:19:48,719 --> 01:19:52,600
» It is another

901
01:19:53,600 --> 01:19:59,719
» 22.
>> That's what I got. That's what I read on

902
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:08,480
» about 21 ft to the pavement edge.
>> Okay. That That's the same for all of

903
01:20:08,159 --> 01:20:10,400
them.
>> I'm sorry.

904
01:20:09,040 --> 01:20:13,400
» That's the same for all of them.
>> Yep.

905
01:20:13,440 --> 01:20:19,280
This is
I'm getting confused by what you're

906
01:20:17,440 --> 01:20:23,280
saying on the setbacks are because last
time we were here

907
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:29,040
two months ago, whatever it was, it
seemed to me that the uh setback you

908
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:32,800
were request or the easement you were
requesting was a lot more significant

909
01:20:31,199 --> 01:20:39,040
than that.
>> Well, uh the setback for this because

910
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:46,880
it's on a residential is 100 ft. Um so
it they're asking for 50

911
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:51,840
you know, at the at the most uh where is
it? 50

912
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:56,640
60 5 ft.
>> So, they have a 35 ft

913
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:59,640
set back as opposed to 100 ft.
>> Correct.

914
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:11,960
» Okay.
>> Yeah.

915
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:11,960
Other questions from the board?

916
01:21:16,400 --> 01:21:26,400
Is there I'm trying to think a a road or
another I know there were stop signs

917
01:21:22,640 --> 01:21:27,360
right in this area that we requested.
Correct.

918
01:21:27,040 --> 01:21:30,800
» Yeah.
>> Now, wasn't there

919
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:35,040
» right?
>> Yeah.

920
01:21:31,199 --> 01:21:40,560
» And then another like
an area to get out other than use

921
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:43,679
Mchuan. it.
Yeah, you could go Willow or Willow

922
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:51,480
Point.
>> But now for the middle building.

923
01:21:47,520 --> 01:21:51,480
» Oh yeah, that's true.

924
01:21:57,280 --> 01:22:07,440
» Is the middle building able to
have an exit to the east? No, I believe

925
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:10,159
that was considered and uh the site
>> the grade is

926
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:11,760
» the grade is significant there. I mean,
we can push

927
01:22:11,360 --> 01:22:16,880
» Sure.
>> Uh there's not wetlands on that 22 acres

928
01:22:14,719 --> 01:22:21,679
that we own going down to the lake. We
can just expand the footprint, but I

929
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:27,760
don't think anybody wants that that you
know eats up a a steep slope.

930
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:31,840
We have room, but this is the better
design that this board

931
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:34,840
» wanted.
Yep.

932
01:22:36,480 --> 01:22:45,679
Other questions from the board?
Not. I'll open it up to the public for

933
01:22:41,840 --> 01:22:50,159
now and bring it back.
All right. Um like to hear if anybody

934
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:53,639
wants to speak for against the project.
Please come on up.

935
01:22:56,320 --> 01:23:03,360
» How you folks doing? I'm uh Charlie
Johnson. I'm at 440 Muan Drive. Um, I

936
01:23:01,360 --> 01:23:08,560
sent you guys a letter. I just wanted to
clarify or at least summarize a couple

937
01:23:04,960 --> 01:23:13,120
of things. Um,
when the applicant claims that this new

938
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:18,159
uh
a different decision would be arbitrary

939
01:23:14,880 --> 01:23:22,000
and capriccious. Uh, New York State law
is clear. If the material facts have

940
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:26,960
changed, this board is obviously legal
is uh legally

941
01:23:24,480 --> 01:23:33,120
able to make a new decision. um they
haven't much uh we had a formal request

942
01:23:30,639 --> 01:23:40,080
a response back on August 28th about a
positive jurisdictional determination

943
01:23:34,719 --> 01:23:44,800
for the wetlands for this area. Um they
came back and said this was a class one

944
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:50,239
wetland which is the highest protective
classification we have in New York

945
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:56,719
State. Um,
looking at the hang on, let me go to my

946
01:23:53,199 --> 01:24:00,639
notes I have here.
We just look at the five st the five

947
01:23:58,719 --> 01:24:05,920
statutory standards that we have when
you guys grant variances. Uh, the first

948
01:24:04,239 --> 01:24:12,320
one is the undesirable change to the
neighborhood. Uh, squeezing these

949
01:24:07,920 --> 01:24:19,199
buildings into such a small area. uh
specifically cutting down or the single

950
01:24:16,159 --> 01:24:25,120
61% directly robs neighboring homeowners
of their privacy uh quiet enjoyment and

951
01:24:22,960 --> 01:24:30,080
property values.
Uh the second part is number two

952
01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:34,480
feasible alternatives. A developer uh
desires to build 56 units is a financial

953
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:41,520
goal. It's not necessarily a physical
necessity. Uh the obvious solution is to

954
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:46,639
scale back the project.
Uh number three, the request is

955
01:24:44,960 --> 01:24:53,360
obviously substantial. You're talking
about a 75% reduction

956
01:24:49,679 --> 01:24:57,440
uh for the buffer and a 61%
reduction for the other section there.

957
01:24:55,920 --> 01:25:04,000
Um
and about the adverse environmental

958
01:24:59,280 --> 01:25:08,800
impacts the project has. Uh the DEEC's
positive jurisdictional determination

959
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:15,600
proves that the regulated wetlands and
state protected 100 ft adjacent areas

960
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:20,400
exist on this site. Okay. Uh which I
believe requires that automatically trig

961
01:25:17,679 --> 01:25:26,080
I believe triggers a special use permit.
uh I'm asking you to dig more or at

962
01:25:23,920 --> 01:25:30,719
least get more information from the
developers on the status of their

963
01:25:28,000 --> 01:25:36,000
current wetland determination and or if
they have a special use permit

964
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:42,400
application in process. Um and then
lastly, I'll just say that uh

965
01:25:39,440 --> 01:25:46,719
the application pretty much fails all
five of the balloting criteria that you

966
01:25:44,400 --> 01:25:51,520
guys use to make area variances uh
decisions. Uh, one, it dramatically

967
01:25:49,440 --> 01:25:55,440
alters the neighborhood character. Two,
uh, the requests are massively uh,

968
01:25:53,920 --> 01:26:00,960
substantial.
Uh, the environmental risk is validated

969
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:06,000
by a positive DEC determination
and there's obviously feasible uh,

970
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:11,440
alternatives that exist
and that is all that I have.

971
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:16,000
» Mr. Justin, you you mentioned the
environmental risk and then the

972
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:20,880
applicant said there was a a pocket
wetland that was nowhere near the

973
01:26:18,719 --> 01:26:25,520
project. Do you recall that?
>> They they they did, but because they're

974
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:29,920
using the entire property to obviously
meet the density requirements, they have

975
01:26:27,679 --> 01:26:35,920
to consider the wetland that's down by
the bay there. Um that is the again the

976
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:40,719
the I don't know if you guys have a
copy. I have a copy of this I can

977
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:46,400
provide to you. Um
the the date on the notice is incorrect.

978
01:26:43,679 --> 01:26:50,719
Um they had they said this determination
shall remain valid for five years from

979
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:57,440
the date of this letter which is through
222 2031.

980
01:26:53,520 --> 01:27:03,080
Um so I I think what they're talking
about is the area closer to the bay

981
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:03,080
there.

982
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:11,120
Okay.
>> Okay.

983
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:14,560
» Thank you very much.
>> No problem.

984
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:19,920
» Any anybody else from the public want to
speak for against the project?

985
01:27:17,679 --> 01:27:27,960
» No additional comments.
Okay. Back to the board. Other questions

986
01:27:24,480 --> 01:27:27,960
from the board.

987
01:27:28,159 --> 01:27:36,480
I was not on the board in 26 or 24. I
mean,

988
01:27:34,159 --> 01:27:39,920
um,
had I been on the board in 24, I don't

989
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:45,040
think I would have approved it at that
time. And I'm I understand what Mr.

990
01:27:42,239 --> 01:27:50,080
DeMarco was saying about it being we
might be under some obligation, but as

991
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:53,639
someone that wasn't here, is that whole
for me also?

992
01:27:54,000 --> 01:28:02,239
» Oh, I'm sorry. There was a question. um
under our general law and

993
01:27:59,840 --> 01:28:05,840
juristprudence.
I guess the analogy would be, you know,

994
01:28:04,239 --> 01:28:10,639
someone sitting on the Supreme Court
that says or a lower court that says, I

995
01:28:08,080 --> 01:28:15,120
don't, you know, I wasn't on the bench
when this higher court made this

996
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:20,960
president. Do I need to follow it?
And short answer is yes. You don't have

997
01:28:18,639 --> 01:28:25,600
to.
What I said at the beginning was we

998
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:32,159
recognize the administrative precedence
of the board. So that if there's going

999
01:28:28,880 --> 01:28:35,159
to be a change of this board's
determination,

1000
01:28:35,199 --> 01:28:41,120
if the applicant was to challenge it,
right, let's not mince words. If this

1001
01:28:39,199 --> 01:28:46,560
board was to deny the application
tonight

1002
01:28:42,639 --> 01:28:51,199
and the applicant was to challenge it,
they would challenge the uh

1003
01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:56,880
administrative precedence and say,
"Look, you previously ruled on this. Now

1004
01:28:54,159 --> 01:29:02,800
you're the board, not individuals, but
the board is now changing its ruling."

1005
01:28:59,440 --> 01:29:09,920
So the question then becomes is there
change of circumstances present in the

1006
01:29:06,400 --> 01:29:15,040
site in the application
that this board can hang their hat on

1007
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:20,639
and say we have now new facts new
circumstances and based upon those the

1008
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:27,520
board can give specific reasons of our
criteria that we always look at and hang

1009
01:29:22,960 --> 01:29:33,679
its hat on those factual changes.
So

1010
01:29:29,440 --> 01:29:37,600
that's what we're faced with. If we want
to change, if the board changes its

1011
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:44,000
position, I'm not saying it can't it
can. I'm not saying it shouldn't. But if

1012
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:48,639
it chooses to, it needs to articulate
the change in circumstances

1013
01:29:46,639 --> 01:29:54,560
at the site.
How is it today changed from how it was

1014
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:59,600
immediately prior to your last approval?
>> Does that make sense? I understand what

1015
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:04,480
you're saying. I'm just I guess I'm
wondering what obligation I'm under. I

1016
01:30:01,600 --> 01:30:08,560
mean, if the board as a whole approves
it, can it still have a negative vote in

1017
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:11,199
there?
>> Of course.

1018
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:16,480
» Thank you.
>> Of course.

1019
01:30:14,080 --> 01:30:24,000
» That's a good question.
Other questions from the board?

1020
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:30,320
I find myself in a difficult situation
because when we first when I first saw

1021
01:30:26,560 --> 01:30:35,679
it, it uh let me commend the applicant
for changing it to our request

1022
01:30:33,120 --> 01:30:40,159
originally and because it I think it
does look much better and I apologize

1023
01:30:38,080 --> 01:30:45,440
for questioning number trees. I was
going simply by the presentation drawing

1024
01:30:42,480 --> 01:30:50,800
which was different from the application
drawing and that's my fault. I apologize

1025
01:30:47,600 --> 01:30:56,639
for that. But and like I said, I think
it's much better than it was before you

1026
01:30:53,440 --> 01:31:00,960
made those revisions. But having a lot
more time to look at it again,

1027
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:05,920
I try to look at it fresh again and
thinking like, well, it's better, but

1028
01:31:04,159 --> 01:31:12,400
it's not something that I still feel
comfortable with. But, uh, if I I feel

1029
01:31:09,280 --> 01:31:15,920
that, uh, I just want to make make it
known that it'll be yes, but it's a

1030
01:31:14,000 --> 01:31:20,560
reluctant yes, but I guess it doesn't
matter whether it's reluctant or not.

1031
01:31:18,320 --> 01:31:24,080
since I did vote it originally because
it was an improvement and I still think

1032
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:28,960
it is an improvement over what was
originally presented to this board. But

1033
01:31:27,199 --> 01:31:35,280
the more I look at it, the more I start
thinking maybe I didn't vote properly

1034
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:39,840
last time and that's my error, not
yours.

1035
01:31:37,120 --> 01:31:45,679
And we certainly I don't want to put the
board in any predicament by me having

1036
01:31:44,159 --> 01:31:49,440
more time to look at it and potentially
changing my mind.

1037
01:31:47,760 --> 01:31:52,719
that that's more of a statement than a
question to you.

1038
01:31:50,159 --> 01:31:58,320
» That's understood. I have a response uh
a two-part response. One

1039
01:31:55,520 --> 01:32:03,120
uh and it ties into something that uh
John said earlier. This board had a lot

1040
01:32:01,280 --> 01:32:07,520
more time to look at this application
and and took a lot of time. You looked

1041
01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:12,639
at it a ton. You looked at every single
page of the application. you look you

1042
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:17,760
poured over this before and made made
that decision after five four or five

1043
01:32:15,280 --> 01:32:21,760
different meetings and I mean and I
wasn't up here I've been up here for 15

1044
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:28,080
minutes I was up here for an hour and a
half every time um with you drilling me

1045
01:32:25,199 --> 01:32:32,400
with questions and everybody so you know
maybe your your first instinct was

1046
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:37,600
correct because you it did have you did
uh go deeper second um and this is

1047
01:32:35,679 --> 01:32:42,159
something Mark Fort does with all our
projects But, uh, we're going to prove

1048
01:32:40,239 --> 01:32:45,840
you wrong. If you're hesitant about it,
we will prove you wrong. This is going

1049
01:32:44,159 --> 01:32:50,320
to be a great project. It's going to be
buffered adequately. The neighbors on

1050
01:32:48,080 --> 01:32:54,480
Mchuan, I get it. They don't like it.
They They're not even going to notice it

1051
01:32:52,639 --> 01:32:59,040
three years from now. That's what
happens with every single one of our

1052
01:32:56,159 --> 01:33:02,880
projects. Um, I talked to board, we go
back into towns, you know, this is not

1053
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:05,360
our only uh development in the town of
Webster. I'm going to see you in three

1054
01:33:04,320 --> 01:33:09,840
years. And you're going to say, "Oh,
yeah. Yes, that's a great a great

1055
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:11,760
project. We will prove you wrong on
that.

1056
01:33:10,480 --> 01:33:20,320
» I look forward to that.
>> Can can you help me understand how?

1057
01:33:15,280 --> 01:33:26,080
Right. So, I heard Josh just say
uh the town does not want the um

1058
01:33:22,560 --> 01:33:33,199
vegetation in the right away. Um I like
hearing it, but I've I've had salesmen

1059
01:33:30,159 --> 01:33:36,480
sell me on things before and it doesn't
come true, right? second slam on sale.

1060
01:33:35,379 --> 01:33:42,719
[laughter]
>> So, so help me understand how help me

1061
01:33:40,159 --> 01:33:47,199
understand and help help the residents
of Mchuan understand how they're not

1062
01:33:44,800 --> 01:33:51,280
going to notice this. And and you're
right. I mean, we poured over this and

1063
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:56,000
and I I remember us talking about can we
pull the pull that road in even more so

1064
01:33:53,199 --> 01:33:59,840
we can get more vegetation, right? So
there there was a lot of discussion

1065
01:33:58,000 --> 01:34:09,679
because
asking for the the setback of 35 ft 55

1066
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:17,520
ft from 100 ft it it's not insignificant
right I mean it's you know so how do we

1067
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:24,080
how do you how do we get an asurances in
a comfort level um because [cough]

1068
01:34:22,480 --> 01:34:29,920
I think the board that was here
previously there reluctances, but we

1069
01:34:26,880 --> 01:34:35,840
felt comfortable enough after the last
time. Uh, hearing that the town does not

1070
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:39,360
want the vegetation in there leaves me a
little concerned. Um, because at the end

1071
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:43,360
of the day, the town does have to
maintain, you know, any of those

1072
01:34:41,440 --> 01:34:48,560
utilities in there and everything else.
So, I I would hate to leave here with

1073
01:34:46,159 --> 01:34:54,960
those conditions. The town doesn't want
it. And now all of a sudden I have three

1074
01:34:52,080 --> 01:34:59,280
buildings on Mchuan that are are visible
and whatnot. So

1075
01:34:57,600 --> 01:35:05,920
help me understand how we're going to
get over that. Um so Josh uh is is I

1076
01:35:04,239 --> 01:35:10,239
believe correct. You know that sewer
department from an initial standpoint

1077
01:35:08,400 --> 01:35:12,320
and they always all sewer departments
say we don't want it anywhere near our

1078
01:35:12,000 --> 01:35:15,040
easement.
>> Sure.

1079
01:35:13,120 --> 01:35:20,560
» Um you know some easements they're very
familiar with. this one down closer to

1080
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:23,600
the lake, they, you know, they can map
it out, you know, off the top of their

1081
01:35:22,159 --> 01:35:26,480
head. They're so familiar with it. This
one, you know, it's a standard side of

1082
01:35:25,199 --> 01:35:30,400
the road easement. They don't know
exactly where the pipe is. They'd have

1083
01:35:28,159 --> 01:35:34,960
to go in the file and look for it. Um,
we can work with them, our engineers,

1084
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:41,840
our design team will work with the town
um and find places where, you know,

1085
01:35:38,320 --> 01:35:47,600
shallow rooted plants can can thrive.
um the the the answer to and I I want to

1086
01:35:45,199 --> 01:35:52,480
be clear, we're not going to hide this,
but the neighbors on MUN won't notice it

1087
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:55,760
as, you know, uh the threat to their way
of life that they think it's going to be

1088
01:35:53,920 --> 01:36:00,400
right now. Um it's not going to be
hidden. It's going to blend. It's going

1089
01:35:58,159 --> 01:36:06,800
to become a part of this neighborhood.
And uh the real answer to it is we rent

1090
01:36:04,320 --> 01:36:11,360
these things. We have to sell them. And
it sounds like a salesman, but you can't

1091
01:36:08,880 --> 01:36:16,320
sell junk. You can't sell stuff that
doesn't have uh you can't sell stuff on

1092
01:36:13,920 --> 01:36:22,000
Mchuan Road that looks like an apartment
complex. We're gonna make it look like

1093
01:36:19,120 --> 01:36:26,400
Mchuan Road. That's the way to rent it
and rent it for the you know quite

1094
01:36:23,600 --> 01:36:32,480
frankly the prices that uh a great
neighborhood like this deserves.

1095
01:36:29,120 --> 01:36:37,520
» And these are you said two things in in
your last statement. Rent and sell. So

1096
01:36:35,440 --> 01:36:41,840
» no I'm being a the salesman.
>> Salesman. Okay. Lease leasemen. I guess

1097
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:45,199
we have to sell them to tenants. None of
these will ever be sold. This will

1098
01:36:43,679 --> 01:36:51,600
operate as one functional property
>> as an apartment complex. Yep. Okay.

1099
01:36:48,960 --> 01:36:58,800
» Um
the the resident had talked about uh in

1100
01:36:55,280 --> 01:37:06,800
in his letter storm water soil erosion.
Um can you talk about the storm water

1101
01:37:02,159 --> 01:37:12,639
for the uh for this complex? Is all
storm water going to be handled on site?

1102
01:37:10,159 --> 01:37:18,880
» It it will be and this is subject to the
DEEC storm water permit GP0-25-00001

1103
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:22,719
that is not impacted by the regulation
changes that I referred to earlier. Uh

1104
01:37:21,199 --> 01:37:26,320
prior to the start of construction,
perimeter erosion control will be put in

1105
01:37:24,719 --> 01:37:30,000
place. A stabilized construction
entrance will be put in. storm water

1106
01:37:28,480 --> 01:37:34,560
management facilities installed,
including sedimentation basins, so that

1107
01:37:32,480 --> 01:37:38,560
that when storm water leaves the site,
it does it never occurs at a rate higher

1108
01:37:36,639 --> 01:37:41,679
than it occurs today for various storms
up to and including the 100red-year

1109
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:46,320
event, which is significant. That's
flooding. Um, and sediment will be

1110
01:37:44,719 --> 01:37:50,719
contained on site. So, downstream
receiving waters, offsite properties

1111
01:37:48,159 --> 01:37:54,800
will not be be impacted by that. And
that it's subject to a weekly uh

1112
01:37:53,840 --> 01:37:57,119
inspection
>> during construction.

1113
01:37:56,000 --> 01:38:01,679
» Correct.
Um when you say sediment is going to be

1114
01:37:59,360 --> 01:38:05,199
maintained on site again during
construction

1115
01:38:03,040 --> 01:38:11,440
» both during construction and in in in
the uh in the completed state also

1116
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:19,199
» um who is maintaining
uh the storm system after it's complete?

1117
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:22,080
I mean I hate to say it it's you know
>> patients can get filled up and no longer

1118
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:25,840
function.
>> We operate we own and operate our own

1119
01:38:24,239 --> 01:38:30,320
properties. That's us. We we will
operate it in perpetuity. Um this this

1120
01:38:28,719 --> 01:38:35,679
is an interesting one. I forget there's
big giant storm chambers on this one. Um

1121
01:38:33,440 --> 01:38:40,480
it's new for us. So we'll get a tech,
you know, the the you know the techni

1122
01:38:38,239 --> 01:38:44,560
technicians out and they'll train our
on-site maintenance personnel. We have

1123
01:38:42,480 --> 01:38:48,239
on-site maintenance p personnel on site
at all of our properties. They'll learn

1124
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:53,520
how to do what they have to do. And then
I'm assuming it has an annual or bianual

1125
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:58,159
bigger maintenance that we have to hire
somebody to do. Okay.

1126
01:38:55,119 --> 01:39:02,320
» So once construction's completed, this
is subject to an annual inspection that

1127
01:39:00,400 --> 01:39:07,280
gets provided to the town and so any
kind of of repairs are noted in that and

1128
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:14,159
so they would make them.
>> Okay. Um can you talk to soil erosion

1129
01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:17,119
both during construction and post
construction as well?

1130
01:39:15,440 --> 01:39:20,880
» Yeah. So we're going to employ pretty
standard measures between uh what's

1131
01:39:19,360 --> 01:39:25,520
called silt fence. You've seen this at
any construction site. Uh and that gets

1132
01:39:23,199 --> 01:39:28,400
again inspected weekly. Um
>> and again this is we're talking during

1133
01:39:27,199 --> 01:39:32,719
construction right now.
>> Correct. And those that that fencing has

1134
01:39:30,800 --> 01:39:37,280
to be removed before the permit can be
closed out the construction portion of

1135
01:39:34,800 --> 01:39:41,920
it. And that can only come out once all
the surfaces have stabilized either

1136
01:39:39,119 --> 01:39:46,960
through a minimum of 80% uh density
growth or by a construction service put

1137
01:39:44,639 --> 01:39:52,440
down like a asphalt or concrete
sidewalk.

1138
01:39:49,440 --> 01:39:52,440
Okay.

1139
01:39:52,719 --> 01:40:02,800
Uh each one of those driveways,
if you will, is a single family

1140
01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:05,040
resident. If you I guess best way for me
to put it right. Is that

1141
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:09,119
» exactly?
>> Okay.

1142
01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:15,199
So on Mchuan, I'm looking at one, two,
three, four, five, six, seven, eight

1143
01:40:12,480 --> 01:40:17,119
uh apartment apartments. If I'm counting
that correctly,

1144
01:40:16,080 --> 01:40:19,679
» up to 10.
>> Is that up to 10?

1145
01:40:18,560 --> 01:40:24,760
» The ends are doubles.
>> Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Erica.

1146
01:40:24,880 --> 01:40:30,280
Okay. Other questions from the board

1147
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:40,560
comment? Um
I

1148
01:40:36,880 --> 01:40:44,320
I understand we came from years ago an
eight-story building and then two

1149
01:40:42,320 --> 01:40:50,719
three-story buildings that were
ridiculously long to the town houses

1150
01:40:47,119 --> 01:40:56,719
which are probably the least impactful
other than just building single family

1151
01:40:52,960 --> 01:41:00,719
homes that we can come to. Um,
and I also know it's really not the

1152
01:40:58,880 --> 01:41:08,320
privy of this board, but I don't like
all the extra traffic that this is

1153
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:15,199
potentially dumping onto Mchuan. Um,
putting the traffic in inboard onto

1154
01:41:10,480 --> 01:41:18,639
Willow Point makes it I won't say
at least less impactful to Mchuan. It's

1155
01:41:17,199 --> 01:41:23,119
not ever going to be unimpactful to
them. Um,

1156
01:41:21,520 --> 01:41:28,719
I understand we have only the one
driveway coming out of the building

1157
01:41:24,639 --> 01:41:33,360
that's closest to Mchuan. Um, but it
seems like this whole end of the complex

1158
01:41:30,320 --> 01:41:38,159
is going to dart out there and and be a
lot of extra traffic on a street that

1159
01:41:35,760 --> 01:41:43,199
right now has five houses on it, so
maybe 10 cars.

1160
01:41:40,080 --> 01:41:47,199
» So, so the site plan included a seeker
review for potential impacts like that.

1161
01:41:45,199 --> 01:41:51,360
It was deemed to be to not have a
significant impact whatsoever.

1162
01:41:49,199 --> 01:41:53,440
» 90 addition or I'm sorry.
>> So that

1163
01:41:52,000 --> 01:41:57,600
» 56 additional
>> is negligible. Yes. So it was considered

1164
01:41:56,239 --> 01:42:04,719
at the planning board level.
>> I I understand that but I question it.

1165
01:42:01,440 --> 01:42:08,880
So, and I I'm going from memory here,
but I believe that the traffic study

1166
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:14,159
that this board and uh the planning
board and staff and the town's engineers

1167
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:20,400
reviewed and agreed with, I believe it
said that this project will dump one car

1168
01:42:17,199 --> 01:42:23,600
every either 8 minutes or 12 minutes.
And I don't remember which it is, and I

1169
01:42:21,920 --> 01:42:28,080
apologize for that, but it's not one car
every minute, every two minutes. It's

1170
01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:30,639
one or one car every like 8 to 10
minutes.

1171
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:33,679
» Oh, I understand that. But I have and
it's not going to be one every 8 to 10

1172
01:42:32,320 --> 01:42:39,199
minutes because there's going to be a
dump between say seven and eight o'clock

1173
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:45,600
and then a dump coming in between four
and six o'clock. But but right now I've

1174
01:42:41,600 --> 01:42:49,679
got five houses, six houses on Mchuan
with maybe two houses and grandma and

1175
01:42:48,239 --> 01:42:54,719
grandpa coming over on the weekends or
two cars per house. So it is going to be

1176
01:42:52,800 --> 01:42:58,960
an impact regardless of what the traffic
study says. that's not going to be, you

1177
01:42:56,320 --> 01:43:04,800
know, high volume traffic, but it's
additional traffic. And I just

1178
01:43:01,520 --> 01:43:08,480
» I'm struggling of how do we
how do we make it attractive for people

1179
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:13,440
to want to go out the Willowpoint
entrance and not out the Mchuan? That's

1180
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:17,440
that's what I struggle with. And I know
I voted for this project the last time

1181
01:43:15,760 --> 01:43:23,440
just because it's so much better than
where we started. But but it is a

1182
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:30,159
significant impact to the people that
live there now and don't see the other

1183
01:43:26,719 --> 01:43:35,280
56 residences worth of cars or even half
of them. Say half of them go in half

1184
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:41,199
them. So, what [clears throat] I just be
cognizant of that when you're doing

1185
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:46,880
this, if you get the approval to
to make it

1186
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:51,760
least impactful traffic-wise for the the
kids that right now probably play in the

1187
01:43:49,119 --> 01:43:58,320
street and
>> well and and absolutely and understood.

1188
01:43:55,119 --> 01:44:02,880
Um, one of the nice things, uh, that
I've seen happen, um, sometimes through

1189
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:07,760
planning board meetings, um, but we have
on-site property management. We also

1190
01:44:05,679 --> 01:44:12,080
have our tenants have children playing
in the streets. If somebody can wants to

1191
01:44:10,480 --> 01:44:16,159
lodge a complaint with our property
on-site property manager, and say it's a

1192
01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:19,840
red car, she'll figure out which one it
is, and we'll we'll we'll violate them.

1193
01:44:18,480 --> 01:44:23,440
We'll we'll we'll tell them they got to
knock it off or they can find somewhere

1194
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:28,560
else to live. Um, so if there's a
traffic problem, uh, you know, if people

1195
01:44:25,679 --> 01:44:32,880
are driving their through, uh, too fast
through through Mchuan, uh, we hope our

1196
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:37,600
neighbors contact us and and let us
know. You know, they're going to know if

1197
01:44:34,080 --> 01:44:44,199
it's turning into our, uh, complex or,
you know, onto Maritime Drive. And we

1198
01:44:39,920 --> 01:44:44,199
hope they they reach out and tell us.

1199
01:44:53,119 --> 01:44:56,600
other questions.

1200
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:03,800
No

1201
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:11,119
Erica, Chris, Jim. So you guys all
thinking

1202
01:45:09,199 --> 01:45:15,840
» I No other questions.
>> No.

1203
01:45:11,679 --> 01:45:19,760
» And uh Webster's was sanitation or what
was it? the

1204
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:25,440
» the highway and sewer department.
>> They've worked with other

1205
01:45:22,159 --> 01:45:32,560
builders prior to this.
>> I'm not aware of an specific example

1206
01:45:28,320 --> 01:45:36,440
where a project has spilled out into the
right away, if you will.

1207
01:45:41,840 --> 01:45:50,719
Erica, do you have the um the
engineering plans, not the rendering?

1208
01:45:48,639 --> 01:45:55,280
» Because I believe the rendering shows
the roadway a little closer to the

1209
01:45:52,719 --> 01:45:57,760
» rendering isn't the most accurate set of
plans.

1210
01:45:55,920 --> 01:46:02,199
» So, here we go. The issue
>> that I had. Sorry.

1211
01:45:59,199 --> 01:46:02,199
» Yep.

1212
01:46:03,199 --> 01:46:13,119
The um the rightway is the the rightway
is those two lighter triple dash or

1213
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:16,000
quadruple dash lines. Is that correct?
>> The rightway is the darker one in the

1214
01:46:14,719 --> 01:46:17,920
middle of those two.
>> Okay.

1215
01:46:16,400 --> 01:46:21,040
» The other the other two lighter ones are
easements.

1216
01:46:18,639 --> 01:46:27,440
» Easements. Okay.
Um,

1217
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:34,400
so we do have they do have space
for vegetation on the property before

1218
01:46:30,159 --> 01:46:38,000
the easement based on this plan.
Am I reading that correctly?

1219
01:46:36,080 --> 01:46:44,080
» Yes.
>> Okay. Uh, do we have an understanding of

1220
01:46:40,800 --> 01:46:47,760
how much space that is?
Looks like

1221
01:46:46,159 --> 01:46:51,920
16 ft.
>> Yeah. Well,

1222
01:46:49,920 --> 01:46:54,080
it gets worse as you get closer in Eric
or

1223
01:46:52,239 --> 01:47:03,199
» it's probably around 154.
>> 15.4. Okay. Uh and then take off five or

1224
01:46:59,520 --> 01:47:06,800
six feet for the for the easement. Um
because if I remember correctly, we

1225
01:47:04,639 --> 01:47:11,520
asked to shorten those driveways so that
they could have more space inside the on

1226
01:47:09,760 --> 01:47:17,840
the property instead and stay outside
the the easement if I remember

1227
01:47:14,400 --> 01:47:25,639
correctly. Uh back to 2024. So there is
space on the property proper to do that.

1228
01:47:27,679 --> 01:47:30,679
Uh

1229
01:47:31,440 --> 01:47:40,880
is this a 12 in sanitary sewer main that
would run through that 22 ft? The other

1230
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:46,400
thing is this is a 12 or 18 in sewer man
running through a 22 foot rightway.

1231
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:50,080
» There's room. There's room. And if they
really don't want it, we'll put the

1232
01:47:47,600 --> 01:47:55,280
we'll find some other way to to buffer
um that's suit that's acceptable to the

1233
01:47:51,920 --> 01:48:00,480
town. Um but you know, we can do uh
planting boxes. We've seen um that don't

1234
01:47:58,639 --> 01:48:06,239
you know, dig down that don't you don't
plant in the

1235
01:48:01,920 --> 01:48:09,520
» uh soil. You put a a box and then uh uh
plant the tree in that.

1236
01:48:08,080 --> 01:48:13,600
» What are the driveway lengths right now?
>> We can do that.

1237
01:48:11,119 --> 01:48:18,320
» What are the driveway links right now?
So to the interior drive, it's 20 ft

1238
01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:21,600
» from the from the
>> front of the garage to the close edge of

1239
01:48:20,560 --> 01:48:26,400
the interior road.
>> It's 22 feet.

1240
01:48:22,880 --> 01:48:29,520
» 20 ft. Really a bare minim.
>> Yeah. Anybody with a pickup truck is

1241
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:33,360
that that's basically it.
>> Y

1242
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:36,360
» gotcha. Okay.
Okay.

1243
01:48:38,080 --> 01:48:42,199
» Other questions from the board?

1244
01:48:43,119 --> 01:48:46,119
No.

1245
01:48:47,360 --> 01:48:54,719
Uh, one last question I have for you.
Uh, special use wetlands permits, uh,

1246
01:48:53,040 --> 01:48:58,000
not required, I think is what you were
saying,

1247
01:48:55,119 --> 01:49:07,119
» correct? Um you are looking at the
entire parcel uh for so the uh the

1248
01:49:03,440 --> 01:49:14,560
resident was talking about um the
density factor of this uh using one

1249
01:49:10,560 --> 01:49:19,440
portion versus the wetlands portion
as I was trying to listen to it. Can you

1250
01:49:17,199 --> 01:49:24,639
speak to any of that by any chance?
Honestly, I don't know if we use that

1251
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:29,199
area to to determine density, but it's a
small isolated pocket wetland that is

1252
01:49:27,360 --> 01:49:36,320
outside that we're not touching
whatsoever. So, I'm not sure

1253
01:49:33,199 --> 01:49:37,920
cuz cuz passive space is often used for
density. I'm not sure what the concern

1254
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,600
is.
>> We took out We knew that was a wetland.

1255
01:49:40,000 --> 01:49:46,080
We knew that was a wetland when we did
the D or Pasro knew when they did the

1256
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:49,840
density calculation. So, I'm sure that
wasn't included.

1257
01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:53,840
» Okay.
All right. If there's more comments from

1258
01:49:51,760 --> 01:49:57,440
uh from the board, I'm going to make a
motion for type two. Is there any any

1259
01:49:56,560 --> 01:50:01,520
further comments?
>> Um I just I want to make sure I

1260
01:49:59,280 --> 01:50:04,000
understand this is the last development
that's planned for the Willow Point

1261
01:50:03,119 --> 01:50:07,920
complex, right?
>> Yes, absolutely.

1262
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:11,280
» Okay.
I'm going to make a motion for a type

1263
01:50:09,679 --> 01:50:16,560
two action under seeker pursuant to
NYCRR section 617.5 of the environmental

1264
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:18,880
code.
>> Second.

1265
01:50:17,040 --> 01:50:22,280
» Second. All those in favor
>> I

1266
01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:22,280
» I

1267
01:50:26,400 --> 01:50:37,440
All right. Um
area variance uh request is not out of

1268
01:50:32,639 --> 01:50:44,239
character uh in the neighborhood. So, uh
over the course of several years, the uh

1269
01:50:40,480 --> 01:50:51,040
the applicant uh has looked to reduce
the um the

1270
01:50:47,920 --> 01:50:59,920
imposition of the uh highdensity housing
on this uh property to a more um

1271
01:50:55,520 --> 01:51:05,840
scalable residential um feel so that
would fit within the neighborhood

1272
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:12,080
itself. uh eliminating uh maintaining
the character of the neighborhood. Uh

1273
01:51:08,080 --> 01:51:18,719
albeit the property itself is a uh
wooded lot with housing on the uh north

1274
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:24,800
side of it. So, the neighborhood itself
will change, but the applicant has

1275
01:51:21,119 --> 01:51:32,000
modified um over the course of years to
come up with a a design that will mimic

1276
01:51:28,639 --> 01:51:40,072
uh a a single family residential uh type
look um not not imposing um a difference

1277
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:46,080
in character for the neighborhood.
[clears throat]

1278
01:51:41,520 --> 01:51:55,920
um detriment to created by uh to nearby
properties. Um this this project does uh

1279
01:51:51,280 --> 01:52:04,080
include additional uh drive and vehicle
access uh to nearby properties. Uh

1280
01:51:59,520 --> 01:52:08,719
again, the the roadways themselves um
able to handle it based on traffic

1281
01:52:06,480 --> 01:52:16,719
reports that uh were provided by the
applicant previously.

1282
01:52:11,440 --> 01:52:21,599
Uh so limiting uh limiting uh any uh
detriment to nearby properties

1283
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:27,679
um
achievable by other other means. The

1284
01:52:25,440 --> 01:52:34,960
property is uniquely
uh

1285
01:52:29,360 --> 01:52:39,520
uniquely uh graded. So relocating moving
some of the facilities elsewhere is

1286
01:52:38,159 --> 01:52:47,119
difficult.
um the applicant would have the

1287
01:52:42,800 --> 01:52:56,280
opportunity to eliminate uh some of the
structures to

1288
01:52:49,520 --> 01:52:56,280
um to achieve said goals. Um

1289
01:52:56,480 --> 01:53:07,360
but due to
uh again due to grading property um and

1290
01:53:03,760 --> 01:53:11,440
uh it ends up being difficult uh to to
achieve the the goals of the project any

1291
01:53:09,520 --> 01:53:14,440
other way.
Um

1292
01:53:14,480 --> 01:53:21,920
there are no adverse physical or
environmental impacts uh to the site um

1293
01:53:19,679 --> 01:53:30,113
or the neighborhood
um based on

1294
01:53:24,719 --> 01:53:37,119
uh wetland um current wetland codes um
[clears throat] and all the uh SWIP

1295
01:53:33,119 --> 01:53:42,560
storm water uh practices that are being
put into place for this site. Uh there

1296
01:53:40,159 --> 01:53:47,320
are no environmental impacts to the
site.

1297
01:53:44,320 --> 01:53:47,320
Uh

1298
01:53:50,400 --> 01:54:00,800
the request um not being substantial.
Um, if you look at our code, any of you

1299
01:53:58,400 --> 01:54:07,599
are looking at a
um single uh single family

1300
01:54:04,080 --> 01:54:13,760
uh home on the same property as well as
um looking at uh duplexes, multi

1301
01:54:11,679 --> 01:54:22,800
multifamily dwellings on the same
property. offsets would be uh 35 feet

1302
01:54:18,400 --> 01:54:30,239
versus um the current required
um 50 feet or 100 ft next to a

1303
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:40,000
residential area. Um so
again, the the applicant is is making

1304
01:54:33,760 --> 01:54:46,880
these units look and feel like a um
single family type unit. Um, so the the

1305
01:54:44,239 --> 01:54:52,320
desire the request is is not
substantial.

1306
01:54:48,719 --> 01:54:57,239
Uh, I think I covered
all of them. Anybody else want to add

1307
01:54:54,239 --> 01:54:57,239
anything?

1308
01:54:58,880 --> 01:55:04,440
Nope.
Okay.

1309
01:55:07,599 --> 01:55:18,719
I'd like to make a motion for an area
variance to allow a front setback of

1310
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:27,040
18.7 ft where 75 ft is required and to
allow a single family district buffer of

1311
01:55:21,440 --> 01:55:32,719
38.5 ft where 100 ft is oh sorry uh
conditions. The applicant is going to

1312
01:55:29,679 --> 01:55:40,560
work with the town uh highway and sewer
department to maintain the requested uh

1313
01:55:37,840 --> 01:55:46,639
vegetation that was previously
identified in the 2024 application

1314
01:55:45,040 --> 01:55:53,440
um
and provide a a significant buffer to

1315
01:55:50,639 --> 01:55:58,719
the residents on Mchuan Drive. Is there
any other um

1316
01:55:56,000 --> 01:56:02,400
conditions from this board
>> that this will be the end of

1317
01:56:00,560 --> 01:56:08,000
construction for this
>> and no further construction on on this

1318
01:56:05,520 --> 01:56:12,000
uh on this this parcel or the adjoining
I guess adjoining parcels of of this

1319
01:56:09,920 --> 01:56:14,320
property right is that
>> further development

1320
01:56:12,800 --> 01:56:18,560
» no further development
>> okay

1321
01:56:16,159 --> 01:56:23,520
all right now area variance is to allow
a front step back of 18.7 uh 7 ft where

1322
01:56:21,599 --> 01:56:28,719
75 ft is required ired and to allow a
single family district buffer of 38.5 ft

1323
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:33,440
where 100 ft is required in association
with the construction of six buildings

1324
01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:39,199
plus a community center total of 56
units each two stories in height on a

1325
01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:44,119
proposed 13.15 acre parcel having
SPL093.06-3-64.11

1326
01:56:41,119 --> 01:56:44,119
06-3-64.11

1327
01:56:44,480 --> 01:56:50,000
located in an MHR medium high
residential district under section

1328
01:56:48,239 --> 01:56:54,599
350-14
the code of the town of Webster.

1329
01:57:03,199 --> 01:57:08,719
» No second
>> second.

1330
01:57:06,960 --> 01:57:13,520
» Okay,
Mr. Short. Uh I

1331
01:57:12,080 --> 01:57:16,159
» Mr. Spania
>> I

1332
01:57:14,800 --> 01:57:20,239
» Miss Volo
>> I

1333
01:57:17,360 --> 01:57:23,199
» Mr. Senola
>> I

1334
01:57:22,000 --> 01:57:25,199
» Mr. before so
>> nay.

1335
01:57:24,239 --> 01:57:31,520
» Okay,
>> that is a 4-1 vote. Uh you have your

1336
01:57:28,800 --> 01:57:38,719
area variance. Um obviously you have to
get all your meaningful uh permits uh

1337
01:57:34,880 --> 01:57:45,599
etc. uh to commence. You have one year
for meaningful um movement forward.

1338
01:57:44,000 --> 01:57:50,080
» I'd like to thank all of you for your
thoughtful consideration. And I know

1339
01:57:47,040 --> 01:57:53,599
this wasn't easy. Um, but I appreciate
you're doing the right thing. And like I

1340
01:57:51,840 --> 01:57:58,639
said, we we will do our best to prove
you wrong or prove your reservations

1341
01:57:56,320 --> 01:58:03,679
wrong. Uh, we look to do a really good
project here and uh keep our neighbors

1342
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:08,560
as happy as we can. Thank you again.
>> And for the residents that uh did speak

1343
01:58:06,480 --> 01:58:12,639
uh about the project, as you heard him
say, any issues,

1344
01:58:10,639 --> 01:58:18,320
» call call the uh the property
management.

1345
01:58:14,239 --> 01:58:25,920
» So, thank you. Thank you.
>> Uh next up, Verizon Cell Tower. Uh we're

1346
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:32,480
going to start with uh Lake Road. Um for
for this, we are going to have um

1347
01:58:28,639 --> 01:58:39,599
Verizon speak. Um give us uh your
thoughts uh describe um I'm going to

1348
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:45,440
have honestly both projects. Uh and then
I believe we have um the town consultant

1349
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:49,199
here. Uh and then we'll hear from the
town consultant uh before we go any

1350
01:58:48,000 --> 01:58:52,560
further.
>> Okay.

1351
01:58:49,760 --> 01:58:56,560
» Excellent. Thank you.
>> Hello. My name is Laura Smith. I'm with

1352
01:58:54,480 --> 01:59:00,080
Nixon Peabody and I'm here representing
this application, both the Lake Road

1353
01:58:58,480 --> 01:59:06,000
application as well as the Webster
North. As uh we discussed, I'll start

1354
01:59:03,199 --> 01:59:09,440
with the Lake Road application. Uh there
are similarities between this and

1355
01:59:07,360 --> 01:59:14,400
Webster North, but I'll focus on an
overview of the applications in in their

1356
01:59:12,239 --> 01:59:19,760
entirety and then go into some specifics
about the Lake Road application.

1357
01:59:17,119 --> 01:59:23,599
I first want to note we have been before
the planning board several times with

1358
01:59:21,679 --> 01:59:29,920
this application, but I believe it's our
first uh meeting with the zoning board

1359
01:59:26,080 --> 01:59:34,480
of appeals on this matter. I'll note
that wireless telecommunications are

1360
01:59:32,239 --> 01:59:38,960
treated as public utilities for land use
and zoning purposes in New York State,

1361
01:59:36,719 --> 01:59:42,800
which entitles them to a diminished
standard of review rather than the

1362
01:59:40,800 --> 01:59:47,360
standard criteria applicable to area
variances. Under this public necessity

1363
01:59:45,520 --> 01:59:51,520
standard, a wireless carrier must
demonstrate these only these three

1364
01:59:49,360 --> 01:59:55,920
elements. First, that there is a gap in
wireless service. Second, that the

1365
01:59:54,000 --> 02:00:01,440
location in the proposed facility will
remedy those gaps. and that the facility

1366
01:59:58,800 --> 02:00:06,000
pre presents a minimal intrusion on the
community and is more feasible than

1367
02:00:03,280 --> 02:00:11,920
other options. I'll also note that
wireless facilities are highly regulated

1368
02:00:09,199 --> 02:00:18,080
by the FCC and the Telecommunications
Act of 1996, which sets out a separate

1369
02:00:14,880 --> 02:00:22,560
standard for the concept of uh effective
prohibition and not permitting a

1370
02:00:19,920 --> 02:00:27,280
wireless communication services to fill
a coverage gap.

1371
02:00:25,599 --> 02:00:32,639
I'll note for this Lake Road
application, there is a significant gap

1372
02:00:29,760 --> 02:00:38,480
in coverage. We have a pretty sizable
application, but in demonstrated in

1373
02:00:34,719 --> 02:00:42,800
exhibits F and Q, and as demonstrated by
Professor Johnson, the town's

1374
02:00:40,159 --> 02:00:47,440
independent RF consultant, there is a
significant gap in wireless coverage in

1375
02:00:44,800 --> 02:00:52,320
this lake road south. This area is
currently served by three distinct

1376
02:00:49,599 --> 02:00:57,199
overburden sites. The first is four mile
creek. Second is East Webster and the

1377
02:00:54,960 --> 02:01:01,599
third is Gana.
All three of these sites are terrain and

1378
02:00:59,440 --> 02:01:06,880
foliage challenge which results in a
significant gap in both lowband and

1379
02:01:03,840 --> 02:01:11,599
mid-band coverage. Moreover, actual
utilization data for the past year shows

1380
02:01:09,199 --> 02:01:16,639
that several key performance indicators
for these three sites have already

1381
02:01:13,599 --> 02:01:21,360
exceeded 100% utilization. It is the
goal of RF and it is the goal of a

1382
02:01:19,280 --> 02:01:26,480
network to ensure that we're providing
coverage in looking for land use

1383
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:30,880
approvals before those KPIs are met.
Here for those three sites, we are

1384
02:01:28,320 --> 02:01:35,679
already showing overage and capacity
exceeding 100% utilization at these

1385
02:01:33,119 --> 02:01:40,719
three sites. That means the existing
network cannot meet current demand. Uh

1386
02:01:38,320 --> 02:01:44,480
this is on Josh. I I know we're going to
go quickly, but seven and eight of

1387
02:01:42,320 --> 02:01:49,199
exhibit off. I'm sorry, 7 through nine
on exhibit F.

1388
02:01:46,960 --> 02:01:53,440
The goals of this project is to increase
network capacity, provide reliable

1389
02:01:51,520 --> 02:01:59,280
coverage to the Lake Road service area
in northeastern Webster, and offload

1390
02:01:56,080 --> 02:02:02,400
traffic from those overloaded sites. And
here the mid-band coverage is

1391
02:02:00,719 --> 02:02:06,719
particularly significant. We'll see in
the other site it's it's more of the low

1392
02:02:04,560 --> 02:02:12,080
band, but here the mid-band coverage is
very weak in the lake cell. What's shown

1393
02:02:09,599 --> 02:02:18,159
in your application is that the existing
mid-band coverage shows that there is no

1394
02:02:14,960 --> 02:02:23,760
reliable mid-band coverage in this area
instead and it also shows the low band

1395
02:02:21,119 --> 02:02:29,599
coverage is akin to a rural or suburban
and incar applications. However, because

1396
02:02:26,560 --> 02:02:34,080
that mid-band coverage has no coverage,
it those users then have to switch to

1397
02:02:31,599 --> 02:02:40,320
low band showing and that results in a
very low capacity in our low band

1398
02:02:37,599 --> 02:02:45,920
coverage. So it is although there is low
band coverage here the lack of mid-band

1399
02:02:43,040 --> 02:02:51,199
coverage in this area is what's over
taxing and putting these sites at over

1400
02:02:48,080 --> 02:02:55,280
capacity for that low band coverage.
You'll hear from your independent

1401
02:02:53,199 --> 02:02:59,360
consultants since we had the pleasure of
uh also meeting at the planning board

1402
02:02:56,880 --> 02:03:05,920
last Tuesday that here there is a
capacity in it a capacity issue more so

1403
02:03:02,960 --> 02:03:10,960
than necessarily a coverage issue. But
from both the FCC's standpoint and from

1404
02:03:08,560 --> 02:03:16,400
case law, those two items are treated
the same when looking at is there a

1405
02:03:13,040 --> 02:03:20,239
significant gap in coverage.
Next, I'll note that the proposed height

1406
02:03:18,480 --> 02:03:24,560
is the minimum necessary to provide
effective coverage. That's the item

1407
02:03:22,080 --> 02:03:29,280
that's before the ZBA with this
application. It is an area variance to

1408
02:03:26,639 --> 02:03:35,599
seek going from the 100 foot height
that's permitted under the code to go to

1409
02:03:32,320 --> 02:03:41,040
125 ft for this location.
This is shown in exhibit R and V in our

1410
02:03:38,639 --> 02:03:46,159
application and again confirmed by the
town's RF consultant that supplemental

1411
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:52,320
propagation plots compare coverage at
the proposed 120 ft center line against

1412
02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:56,400
a reduced height of 95 ft. I'm going to
pause and explain that concept a little

1413
02:03:54,080 --> 02:04:00,639
bit. So the height of the tower will be
at 125 ft. That's at the very top. And

1414
02:03:59,199 --> 02:04:05,599
then there'll be a lightning rod
attached that's 4t high. However, when

1415
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:11,280
we're looking at cell phone coverage,
the measurement that is used is the the

1416
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:16,080
ant the antenna center line, the ACL.
So, when we're talking about how high up

1417
02:04:13,599 --> 02:04:20,719
the antennas need to be, the concept is
an ACL line rather than necessarily the

1418
02:04:18,560 --> 02:04:28,480
height of the towers.
So, our 120ft tower would have a I'm

1419
02:04:24,639 --> 02:04:34,000
sorry, our 125 ft tower would then have
a 120 foot antenna setter line. then

1420
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:38,560
comparing in order to have an 100 ft
tower that center line that ACL would

1421
02:04:36,560 --> 02:04:44,320
then be at 95 ft. So that's the
reasoning between those comparisons of

1422
02:04:40,400 --> 02:04:50,159
why although seeking 125 ft tower we
compare the 120 ACL

1423
02:04:47,520 --> 02:04:55,840
and then as confirmed in those exhibits
and as also confirmed by the town's

1424
02:04:52,400 --> 02:04:59,840
consultant the 90 foot ACL tower is too
low to overcome the terrain and foliage

1425
02:04:58,080 --> 02:05:05,076
and does not allow for the necessary
coverage improvements capacity overload

1426
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:11,119
and network densification. Again, that's
[clears throat] shown in exhibits R and

1427
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:15,360
B of the Lake Road application.
I'll also note that we've conducted an

1428
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:19,760
exhaustive alternative site analysis and
no viable alternatives exist. This is an

1429
02:05:18,000 --> 02:05:24,400
item that we have worked extensively
with the planning board to review

1430
02:05:21,440 --> 02:05:28,639
potential viable alternative sites that
could still offer that improved uh

1431
02:05:26,960 --> 02:05:34,000
coverage that we need to fill the
coverage gap and then also have the

1432
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:39,280
ability to provide that an an improved
visual impact.

1433
02:05:36,880 --> 02:05:43,520
First, Verizon undertook a comprehensive
site analysis evaluating a total of

1434
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:48,880
seven candidate parcels within and
immediately outside the search area.

1435
02:05:46,080 --> 02:05:53,119
That's shown on page nine of exhibit G.
And I'll note the search area is

1436
02:05:50,400 --> 02:05:59,040
primarily comprised of one owner. It's a
farm owned by Windmill Farms.

1437
02:05:56,080 --> 02:06:03,599
As documented in our March 31st, 2026
supplemental application, Verizon

1438
02:06:01,440 --> 02:06:07,840
engaged in extensive negotiations with
the landlord for permission to be on any

1439
02:06:06,159 --> 02:06:12,159
other location on the landlord's
property, including two sites that were

1440
02:06:10,320 --> 02:06:15,599
identified by the planning board. in the
planning board requested Verizon to go

1441
02:06:14,239 --> 02:06:22,560
back and have discussions with the
landlord. Specifically, one was towards

1442
02:06:18,239 --> 02:06:26,960
the uh south western portion of the
property so that it would be along the

1443
02:06:24,320 --> 02:06:34,000
tree line and less visible uh as cars
are going past on Lake Road. The other

1444
02:06:29,599 --> 02:06:38,320
was um on the
souththeastern side also along the tree

1445
02:06:36,639 --> 02:06:43,119
line essentially trying to move back
from that that corner parcel.

1446
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:48,560
From Verizon's perspective, we need to
be in an area with the within the search

1447
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:53,520
area that will meet the coverage the
coverage needs and the coverage gaps

1448
02:06:50,239 --> 02:06:57,119
we're trying to solve. But beyond that
where within the search area as long as

1449
02:06:55,360 --> 02:07:01,040
it works for RF needs it's not
unreasonable cost or unreasonable very

1450
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:05,840
clear that there are no other locations
our tenno would interrupt. There's also

1451
02:07:03,119 --> 02:07:12,239
some subterrain in infrastructure that
they use that is not possible to put us

1452
02:07:08,400 --> 02:07:16,560
on another place on the farm. Candidly
they provided a letter to the town that

1453
02:07:14,719 --> 02:07:22,239
is more than we typically get from
landlords really. we just need to um

1454
02:07:20,320 --> 02:07:26,639
they we can't force them to lease to us.
So, typically once they say no, uh

1455
02:07:24,880 --> 02:07:30,560
they're not required to explain to the
town what their logic or reasoning is.

1456
02:07:28,639 --> 02:07:35,040
But I I'll note our landlord did go
above and beyond, provided a letter to

1457
02:07:32,639 --> 02:07:38,800
the town explaining all the restrictions
on his property and the reasons that he

1458
02:07:37,040 --> 02:07:44,320
will not lease other locations and
cannot lease other locations to Verizon.

1459
02:07:42,639 --> 02:07:49,760
We also reviewed two additional
candidates. Those are shown on exhibit

1460
02:07:46,400 --> 02:07:54,000
S. They're noted as H and I uh also
identified by the planning board, but

1461
02:07:51,440 --> 02:07:59,119
those failed from an RF perspective. We
also re-evaluated the search area as

1462
02:07:56,480 --> 02:08:04,800
directed by the planning board. Uh that
re that re-evaluation is set forth in

1463
02:08:01,760 --> 02:08:07,840
exhibit U and that was to determine
whether or not there were any other

1464
02:08:06,239 --> 02:08:13,440
places that the search area could be
expanded or moved to try to bring in new

1465
02:08:10,960 --> 02:08:18,719
properties to review.
As shown though in the ex in exhibit U,

1466
02:08:16,639 --> 02:08:24,320
the re the search area cannot be
expanded and it was properly sized in

1467
02:08:22,079 --> 02:08:28,000
the initial analysis.
The remaining property owners within the

1468
02:08:26,159 --> 02:08:32,400
search area declined to participate in
lease negotiations with Verizon. And

1469
02:08:30,480 --> 02:08:36,639
again, these decisions are solely within
the landlord's discretions. We have no

1470
02:08:34,560 --> 02:08:41,360
authority to compel any property owner
to enter into a lease agreement. So to

1471
02:08:39,040 --> 02:08:44,800
the extent there are uh where there were
other opportunities to engage with the

1472
02:08:43,199 --> 02:08:48,880
town or I'm sorry engage with the
landlord, we did so at the town's

1473
02:08:46,400 --> 02:08:53,360
request. Um I'll also note the landlord
came in for a conversation with the town

1474
02:08:51,040 --> 02:08:58,159
and the planning board chair and really
hammered through are there other places

1475
02:08:55,280 --> 02:09:02,960
on that windmill farms complex that this
site can be located and that answer and

1476
02:09:00,639 --> 02:09:07,840
the conclusion uh both the landlord and
Verizon came to was no.

1477
02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:11,119
That leaves the selected site which is
the only candidate that's both

1478
02:09:09,119 --> 02:09:15,840
technically viable and available for
lease for this particular project. We'll

1479
02:09:14,079 --> 02:09:20,239
also note that the project will have no
adverse environmental or community

1480
02:09:17,679 --> 02:09:25,920
impacts. This is a key part of that
telecommunications act of 1996.

1481
02:09:23,920 --> 02:09:31,360
The perceived health effects for this
project and we'll say the same for

1482
02:09:27,760 --> 02:09:35,040
Webster North and we've heard very uh
passionate testimony at the planning

1483
02:09:32,960 --> 02:09:40,159
board. You may hear the similar concerns
tonight, but the science and the law are

1484
02:09:38,000 --> 02:09:45,040
both very clear on perceived health
effects for telecommunications towers.

1485
02:09:42,800 --> 02:09:50,000
Local boards are expressly preempted
from denying or conditioning approvals

1486
02:09:47,199 --> 02:09:54,880
of wireless facilities based on health
or environmental effects of RF emissions

1487
02:09:52,719 --> 02:10:00,079
where the facility complies with the FCC
standards. Here we provided that

1488
02:09:57,440 --> 02:10:04,719
evidence to the town. It is exhibit P to
the application that the proposed

1489
02:10:02,239 --> 02:10:09,679
facility will operate in full compliance
with all applicable FCC regulations. The

1490
02:10:07,920 --> 02:10:14,239
ZBA as well as the planning board and
the town board is therefore without

1491
02:10:11,440 --> 02:10:19,040
authority to consider RF related health
or environmental concerns when reviewing

1492
02:10:16,480 --> 02:10:22,560
this application.
Moreover, we'll note that this project

1493
02:10:20,880 --> 02:10:27,599
will not pollute. It does not create
noise. It does not incre increase

1494
02:10:24,560 --> 02:10:31,599
traffic. It does not create or demand
additional needs on governmental

1495
02:10:29,119 --> 02:10:38,239
services. It's an inert facility that
will enhance emergency communications

1496
02:10:33,679 --> 02:10:41,760
for police, fire, and other responders.
Last, I'll note that the application

1497
02:10:40,079 --> 02:10:45,760
does meet the requirements of state and
federal law. Again, going back to the

1498
02:10:43,440 --> 02:10:50,320
opening uh comment about this being a
public utility and a wireless facility

1499
02:10:48,560 --> 02:10:55,920
that's regulated by the FCC and the
Telecommunications Act of 1996.

1500
02:10:53,760 --> 02:11:02,480
This is a public utility and this site
is important to fill the coverage gap.

1501
02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:06,400
As noted most recently by the FCC in a
uh order that was put out, it's the

1502
02:11:04,480 --> 02:11:10,480
matter of reducing barriers to network
improvements and service changes,

1503
02:11:08,159 --> 02:11:16,880
accelerating network modernization,
which was released on March 27th. The

1504
02:11:13,520 --> 02:11:21,760
FCC noted that as of December 2024,
there's approximately 390.9

1505
02:11:19,920 --> 02:11:25,760
million mobile voice subscriptions in
the United States. And according to

1506
02:11:23,920 --> 02:11:31,920
preliminary data from the Center for
Disease Control and Prevention as of 20

1507
02:11:28,320 --> 02:11:37,040
December 2023, approximately 76% of
adults were living in and relying on a

1508
02:11:34,639 --> 02:11:42,639
wirelessly household with adults in
lower age groups more likely to live in

1509
02:11:39,440 --> 02:11:47,199
wirelessly households. To me, even
Wednesday's storm speaks to the

1510
02:11:44,719 --> 02:11:51,520
importance of having wireless facilities
and wireless facilities in these

1511
02:11:48,960 --> 02:11:55,599
coverage gaps. When electricity is out,
when internet is down, people are

1512
02:11:53,440 --> 02:11:59,679
relying on their cell phones during an
emergency. And even candidly, people are

1513
02:11:57,760 --> 02:12:04,239
relying on cell phones because they
don't have landlines in their home.

1514
02:12:01,520 --> 02:12:10,560
Landlines in their homes. So again, the
importance of this is a public utility.

1515
02:12:07,760 --> 02:12:15,280
It has to be located where the need is.
Verizon did work very extensively with

1516
02:12:13,040 --> 02:12:20,560
the planning board and the town and the
landlord to try to determine another

1517
02:12:17,440 --> 02:12:24,960
location for this to be located and are
now coming with this application fully

1518
02:12:22,719 --> 02:12:30,639
vetted by the town, fully vetted by the
town's independent RF consultant that

1519
02:12:28,079 --> 02:12:35,040
there is a coverage gap. This solves the
coverage gap and there is no other

1520
02:12:32,480 --> 02:12:39,719
feasible location it can be located.
With that, I'll pause to take questions.

1521
02:12:40,239 --> 02:12:46,159
Uh, [cough]
excuse me.

1522
02:12:42,880 --> 02:12:50,880
» You you brought up uh last week's
storms.

1523
02:12:48,079 --> 02:12:54,719
Does the cell towers have generators?
>> They do.

1524
02:12:51,840 --> 02:12:58,719
» Okay. Um,
internal or external because you also

1525
02:12:56,400 --> 02:13:03,280
said the site does not create any
additional noise.

1526
02:13:00,320 --> 02:13:10,480
» It is an external uh generator. The site
plan is located in the application

1527
02:13:05,440 --> 02:13:14,400
materials. It is under exhibit Q and
there is a 50 kilowatt generator shown

1528
02:13:12,960 --> 02:13:19,440
on the site plan.
>> How frequently does that generator run?

1529
02:13:16,719 --> 02:13:24,079
» It runs for testing purposes. It's my
understanding it's tested about once

1530
02:13:22,000 --> 02:13:29,119
every other week. I think the typical
time is Tuesdays at 9:00 a.m. It's meant

1531
02:13:26,880 --> 02:13:33,280
to be identified at a time that uh would
be the least impactful to the

1532
02:13:30,880 --> 02:13:38,159
neighborhood. It is tested twice a week.
It's about tested for I'm sorry. It's

1533
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:43,679
tested about every other week. It's
tested for 15 minutes and then it goes

1534
02:13:40,719 --> 02:13:48,159
off. Certainly during a time of of an
emergency that generator is going, but

1535
02:13:46,320 --> 02:13:51,119
several other generators are going at
that time as well.

1536
02:13:49,119 --> 02:13:54,320
» So very similar to a automatic generator
at somebody's house.

1537
02:13:52,159 --> 02:13:57,679
» Exactly. Right.
>> You said that they would have no

1538
02:13:55,679 --> 02:14:01,280
utilities to it, but you do have you
will be powered. Are you planning on

1539
02:13:59,520 --> 02:14:03,920
» There will be. Yes, there are utilities
going to the site. It's both fiber and

1540
02:14:03,040 --> 02:14:08,880
electricity.
>> Okay.

1541
02:14:06,800 --> 02:14:12,560
» Generators. Not that I guess not that it
matters. I don't know why I'm asking the

1542
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:15,960
question. Is diesel operated then? Not
>> Yes.

1543
02:14:12,960 --> 02:14:15,960
» Okay.

1544
02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:25,040
» The tower actually will it serve others
besides Verizon?

1545
02:14:22,320 --> 02:14:30,000
This is being constructed for Verizon,
but pursuant to the town's collocation

1546
02:14:27,280 --> 02:14:35,360
policy up to it will be designed and
constructed for up to two additional

1547
02:14:32,000 --> 02:14:39,520
carriers to be located on the tower.
>> Has any inquired about it? Any other

1548
02:14:37,920 --> 02:14:43,119
carriers yet or is too early?
>> Candidly, I don't know. I believe it's

1549
02:14:40,880 --> 02:14:48,480
too early to for for inquiries, but
certainly Verizon um Verizon has a need.

1550
02:14:46,719 --> 02:14:52,079
Verizon's building it for its need and
it's required under the town code to

1551
02:14:50,639 --> 02:14:56,960
allow two other users.
>> So there might be another carrier that

1552
02:14:53,840 --> 02:15:02,079
would be perfectly okay with a 100 foot
um ASL but so their antennas are better

1553
02:15:00,320 --> 02:15:05,840
than Verizon's because they don't need
the additional height.

1554
02:15:03,520 --> 02:15:10,320
» So each you know candidly each carrier
is different. I can't speak to their

1555
02:15:07,679 --> 02:15:15,920
network. we need to be at this location
and at this height because it is the

1556
02:15:13,599 --> 02:15:20,320
correct location between those three
sites. Um, you know, think of cell phone

1557
02:15:18,560 --> 02:15:24,639
coverage. It's almost like a flashlight
going up and down. It can't be too close

1558
02:15:22,880 --> 02:15:28,960
to the other towers that are already
existing or else there'll be

1559
02:15:26,000 --> 02:15:32,960
interference. Um, it also can't be too
high up or else the signal um won't go

1560
02:15:31,679 --> 02:15:38,560
where it's needed and it can't be too
low down because the the signal won't go

1561
02:15:35,840 --> 02:15:45,599
as wide as needed. um which is how we
get to the 120 foot site. Um I'll also

1562
02:15:42,320 --> 02:15:50,800
note that Verizon has 60% of the market
here in the town of Webster. So what

1563
02:15:48,159 --> 02:15:55,599
other cell phone carriers need is
difficult. You know, I certainly can't

1564
02:15:52,320 --> 02:16:02,159
speak to that.
>> So um

1565
02:15:58,800 --> 02:16:06,079
other I almost I'd like to maybe hear
about the other site because I do want

1566
02:16:03,599 --> 02:16:08,079
to hear from the expert. This way we can
ask questions

1567
02:16:07,440 --> 02:16:10,880
» once
>> once to

1568
02:16:09,760 --> 02:16:16,400
» No, makes sense.
>> So yeah, Mark, can I ask you one

1569
02:16:14,880 --> 02:16:21,199
» question real quick?
>> So

1570
02:16:18,000 --> 02:16:27,760
this um
the cap the capacity issue, right? You

1571
02:16:24,800 --> 02:16:33,840
said in the end the the gap and the
capacity issue, my words I guess not

1572
02:16:30,960 --> 02:16:39,840
yours, um
are interchangeable now in terms of what

1573
02:16:37,280 --> 02:16:45,840
the courts have ruled
that that that triggers u this lower

1574
02:16:44,160 --> 02:16:49,200
standard if you will in terms of what
what you have to demonstrate.

1575
02:16:47,439 --> 02:16:53,120
» Correct. It is both coverage and
capacity.

1576
02:16:49,840 --> 02:16:59,519
» Right. And when you talk about capacity
earlier you were talking about um

1577
02:16:57,679 --> 02:17:02,519
the these different zones.
>> Mhm.

1578
02:17:04,399 --> 02:17:12,639
» What what happens
when when the capacity breaks down like

1579
02:17:09,519 --> 02:17:20,639
what's the net effect of that?
>> So those are shown it's in exhibit half

1580
02:17:16,399 --> 02:17:24,639
of the of the application. um section
it's it's pages seven, eight, and nine.

1581
02:17:22,639 --> 02:17:28,080
They're essentially graphs showing that
the capacity utilization

1582
02:17:26,479 --> 02:17:32,399
» much rather listen to you than try to
figure out those graphs.

1583
02:17:29,920 --> 02:17:38,240
» So there's there's there's three items
those those charts are showing. The

1584
02:17:34,479 --> 02:17:42,960
first is if there is too many too many
devices trying to download from the cell

1585
02:17:40,319 --> 02:17:49,120
phone tower then the download capacity
goes much very slow. So if you

1586
02:17:46,080 --> 02:17:55,000
» let me just stop right there. So, is it
fair to say at the Lake Road location

1587
02:17:55,760 --> 02:18:07,200
if capacity was not an issue
the um the coverage is sufficient?

1588
02:18:05,040 --> 02:18:13,120
In other words, do you do you need
capacity in your [clears throat] opinion

1589
02:18:10,800 --> 02:18:18,160
» to to to to to get where you want to go?
>> Correct. and and from our perspective

1590
02:18:15,359 --> 02:18:23,519
those are a symbiotic relationship. So
although the low band is showing some

1591
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:29,280
coverage on the map you'll see that it's
uh rural and suburban uh for incar

1592
02:18:26,399 --> 02:18:34,160
coverage. So it's showing if you go from
yellow or I'm sorry white being no

1593
02:18:31,040 --> 02:18:38,559
coverage to yellow being adequate
coverage orange being a little bit

1594
02:18:35,439 --> 02:18:43,120
better green being the best. I'm sorry
no cover no coverage is white orange

1595
02:18:40,960 --> 02:18:47,120
yellow green is the very best. Let's say
it's level of five, one being the worst,

1596
02:18:45,920 --> 02:18:51,040
five being the best.
>> Yeah. So, so we're right about a three

1597
02:18:49,679 --> 02:18:56,519
for low band coverage.
>> Okay. So, if there capacity issue,

1598
02:18:56,800 --> 02:19:04,080
would that be sufficient
in as a standalone?

1599
02:19:02,319 --> 02:19:08,800
» That would not be sufficient for a
standalone. You would still have dropped

1600
02:19:06,240 --> 02:19:13,920
calls. you would still have slowed down
coverage because there's only so many

1601
02:19:11,599 --> 02:19:21,920
users that can be on that low band
coverage. So by having essentially

1602
02:19:17,840 --> 02:19:28,559
because there is limited capacity on the
low band the result of that it once it

1603
02:19:25,120 --> 02:19:33,679
becomes overutilized is no coverage. So
whether you don't have coverage because

1604
02:19:30,319 --> 02:19:37,439
there's too many users, uh I'm sorry,
regardless of if you cannot connect to a

1605
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:39,760
cell phone, so you're dialing up and it
says, you know, no service,

1606
02:19:38,800 --> 02:19:44,319
» right?
Whether that is due to the fact that

1607
02:19:41,679 --> 02:19:50,080
there's too many users currently on that
lowband coverage or that there's zero

1608
02:19:47,280 --> 02:19:56,880
coverage whatsoever, the impact to you
is the same that you can when when that

1609
02:19:53,439 --> 02:20:02,160
low band is is overutilized and and
taxed out, it will either slow down so

1610
02:20:00,000 --> 02:20:04,960
much that you can't download materials,
you know, you're driving down Lake Road

1611
02:20:03,439 --> 02:20:08,720
and you're trying to find an address and
it it won't be able to connect or you

1612
02:20:07,280 --> 02:20:13,280
will be dropped. your call will be
dropped. There will not be sufficient

1613
02:20:10,160 --> 02:20:17,120
coverage for your call to go from this
cell phone to the other cell phone. So,

1614
02:20:15,040 --> 02:20:21,439
as you're driving, right, you go from
cell phone tower to cell phone tower to

1615
02:20:18,720 --> 02:20:28,160
cell phone tower. You're passed along as
you're you're driving down Lake Road.

1616
02:20:23,600 --> 02:20:32,800
You would come from Webster speaking to
someone on low band and then if you hit

1617
02:20:30,720 --> 02:20:38,000
this area and there is not sufficient
coverage or not sufficient capacity,

1618
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:42,399
that call will be dropped.
because there won't have

1619
02:20:39,439 --> 02:20:47,760
» and then so then is there a frequency
upon which the dropping has to occur or

1620
02:20:45,760 --> 02:20:52,399
just the fact that it occurs at all
>> those are shown in the KPI from a

1621
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:57,680
network perspective
the goal is to have no dropped calls

1622
02:20:55,680 --> 02:21:02,640
right and the goal is to identify no
dropped calls before the the tower is

1623
02:20:59,840 --> 02:21:06,560
built here we are already at
overutilization

1624
02:21:04,560 --> 02:21:12,000
» right and I guess that's my point is
look on the one end

1625
02:21:09,200 --> 02:21:15,760
Verizon wants to provide a superior
service,

1626
02:21:14,160 --> 02:21:19,920
right?
>> It want Yes. It wants to be able to fill

1627
02:21:17,760 --> 02:21:23,280
this coverage gap that that exists in
>> Webster and there's a gap and there's a

1628
02:21:21,760 --> 02:21:27,280
capacity issue.
>> Correct.

1629
02:21:24,479 --> 02:21:32,200
» At some point we get to a minimum level,
right? And then over that level

1630
02:21:32,479 --> 02:21:38,640
is is is a fivestar rating for Verizon.
So I I was just trying to understand on

1631
02:21:36,479 --> 02:21:44,000
the capacity level is is that a
quantitative

1632
02:21:40,720 --> 02:21:49,760
uh failure point
>> I it is in perhaps your question is you

1633
02:21:47,040 --> 02:21:53,600
know is five drop calls okay or is it
six drop calls right and that's that's

1634
02:21:51,520 --> 02:21:59,600
something the the courts haven't spoken
to it is con it is known as a coverage

1635
02:21:56,640 --> 02:22:05,760
gap this is a coverage gap
>> and it is the health and safety of the

1636
02:22:03,600 --> 02:22:08,800
network to ensure that there are no
coverage gaps.

1637
02:22:06,720 --> 02:22:13,520
» And then you you got to my last point
which

1638
02:22:10,800 --> 02:22:18,800
I I guess as I understand like the the
third circuit court of appeals has made

1639
02:22:16,479 --> 02:22:24,319
this standard and I don't know if the
second has or not where we sit

1640
02:22:22,399 --> 02:22:28,800
» but that they they don't they don't
quantify that bar.

1641
02:22:26,399 --> 02:22:32,399
» So we we in the second circuit we have
what's known as the will standard. We

1642
02:22:30,479 --> 02:22:36,880
have to show that there is a sign
significant gap in coverage and this is

1643
02:22:34,960 --> 02:22:40,960
the least intrusive means to fill that
coverage gap. That's the standard that's

1644
02:22:38,880 --> 02:22:44,720
» so it's significant in terms of capacity
as well interchangeable.

1645
02:22:42,560 --> 02:22:48,720
» Correct. capacity and coverage the FCC
has identified as being th this is the

1646
02:22:47,439 --> 02:22:53,040
items and
>> that are a coverage gap

1647
02:22:49,760 --> 02:22:58,160
» and the significant significancy
I don't know if that's a word at 920

1648
02:22:55,600 --> 02:23:03,840
» at 920 it sure is
>> uh on the capacity side there there's

1649
02:23:00,319 --> 02:23:04,960
not a a a a quantitative formula for
that

1650
02:23:04,319 --> 02:23:08,240
» correct
>> okay

1651
02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:12,000
» there there are standards that we can
show and I I want to make sure I'm being

1652
02:23:09,920 --> 02:23:18,000
clear there are standards that we can
show through those KPIs that these three

1653
02:23:14,960 --> 02:23:24,319
existing towers are at capacity and
reaching exhaustion. There is not a

1654
02:23:20,960 --> 02:23:28,960
court case that says it's okay if four
calls are dropped.

1655
02:23:26,479 --> 02:23:33,200
» Understood.
Key performance indicators KPI.

1656
02:23:31,040 --> 02:23:38,160
» Correct. Well, our the three sites that
are currently serving this area are at

1657
02:23:36,240 --> 02:23:44,160
exhaustion. They are at capacity and
those are that is what's shown on on the

1658
02:23:40,399 --> 02:23:48,240
graphs. um within our RF justification
that that those three sites

1659
02:23:47,120 --> 02:23:52,880
» cannot handle traffic
>> at exhaustion

1660
02:23:50,319 --> 02:23:57,920
» as a professional in the industry I mean
I don't know if that's a term of art but

1661
02:23:54,560 --> 02:24:00,560
you think by any reasonable measure
people would say they're exhausted

1662
02:23:59,520 --> 02:24:03,439
» correct
>> similar experts

1663
02:24:01,760 --> 02:24:07,680
» correct and and and that point of
exhaustion is when you see slowed

1664
02:24:05,920 --> 02:24:12,000
coverage or dropped calls
>> okay

1665
02:24:08,080 --> 02:24:15,439
» or inability to access the work.
>> Thank you.

1666
02:24:13,280 --> 02:24:19,840
» Thank you.
I did not bring up my other materials.

1667
02:24:17,200 --> 02:24:24,840
So, if you'll excuse me, I'll go get our
Webster North material.

1668
02:24:20,960 --> 02:24:24,840
» Sure. Thank you.

1669
02:24:25,439 --> 02:24:28,439
» GBS

1670
02:24:28,800 --> 02:24:33,640
GB
questions.

1671
02:24:37,280 --> 02:24:45,479
I'm trying to follow the uh
attachments is very difficult since

1672
02:24:42,080 --> 02:24:45,479
they're not labeled.

1673
02:24:48,880 --> 02:24:54,880
» Sorry about that.
>> Y

1674
02:24:51,040 --> 02:25:00,479
» um so for Webster North,
this is a slightly different history and

1675
02:24:58,560 --> 02:25:04,319
also slightly different coverage and
capacity gap that I'll go into in more

1676
02:25:02,560 --> 02:25:09,600
detail
for this Webster North site. I first

1677
02:25:06,880 --> 02:25:14,080
want to acknowledge that this has been
before the town and we have been working

1678
02:25:11,680 --> 02:25:19,120
with the town for many years to try to
solve a a real coverage gap in the

1679
02:25:17,200 --> 02:25:24,399
Webster North cell and in this
neighborhood. It started about two years

1680
02:25:21,920 --> 02:25:30,160
ago, maybe by now three years ago, uh
working with the town to try to identify

1681
02:25:26,880 --> 02:25:34,880
sites that could be uh for locations for
a telecommunications tower that could

1682
02:25:32,319 --> 02:25:39,760
serve and solve the coverage gap in this
neighborhood.

1683
02:25:36,479 --> 02:25:45,280
There is a townowned property that is
well suited. It's in this neighborhood.

1684
02:25:42,800 --> 02:25:50,479
Verizon entered into lease negotiations
with the town to lease the property from

1685
02:25:47,840 --> 02:25:56,160
the town. Last summer, we were before
the town board to approve that lease.

1686
02:25:53,359 --> 02:26:01,040
The town board ultimately decided not to
lease to Verizon, but that is a

1687
02:25:58,800 --> 02:26:05,359
legislative act that is fully within the
town board's discretion. Just as we were

1688
02:26:03,359 --> 02:26:11,439
talking about the landlord for wind
windmill farms uh having full discretion

1689
02:26:08,960 --> 02:26:16,720
whether or not to lease to us, the town
of Webster as a landlord likewise has

1690
02:26:14,399 --> 02:26:23,520
full discrepancy whether or not to lease
to us. The town board decided voted no

1691
02:26:21,200 --> 02:26:27,200
again complete within their right. But I
do want to make that distinguish between

1692
02:26:25,520 --> 02:26:32,319
distinguishment between what the town
board decided in a legislative act

1693
02:26:30,080 --> 02:26:36,399
whether or not to lease to Verizon
versus what is before the zoning board

1694
02:26:34,080 --> 02:26:39,399
of appeals tonight for a zoning
decision.

1695
02:26:44,000 --> 02:26:52,439
» Just out of curiosity and maybe it's an
inappropriate question. If it is,

1696
02:26:48,720 --> 02:26:52,439
» you don't have to answer.

1697
02:26:54,960 --> 02:27:04,720
The the sense is that at the end of the
day, if this new tower is more than

1698
02:27:01,760 --> 02:27:10,640
likely to go up somewhere to to address
this coverage area

1699
02:27:07,280 --> 02:27:15,359
and and by the town previously [snorts]
determining legislatively

1700
02:27:13,600 --> 02:27:20,160
it
for those not aware the first time the

1701
02:27:18,240 --> 02:27:24,479
town had the ability to say no because
it was a question threshold question of

1702
02:27:22,080 --> 02:27:31,600
ownership just like you said about the
uh u the the wind windmill farm

1703
02:27:30,240 --> 02:27:33,840
somebody doesn't want to lease it you
can't force them

1704
02:27:32,479 --> 02:27:37,520
» exactly right
>> but the inevitable fact though it seems

1705
02:27:36,000 --> 02:27:41,280
that this tower is going to go up
covering the same area that the town

1706
02:27:39,439 --> 02:27:46,319
previously legislated and says no we
don't want to lease it the reality of

1707
02:27:43,680 --> 02:27:52,000
that occurring and what I suspect will
be residents at the new proposed

1708
02:27:48,960 --> 02:27:56,399
location being as equally opposed
as to the prior location that the town

1709
02:27:54,000 --> 02:28:02,000
owned.
Has Verizon

1710
02:27:59,200 --> 02:28:07,040
considered approaching the town again or
renewing the application

1711
02:28:04,240 --> 02:28:11,120
in light of the town's and I I'm not
saying that it's a good idea, bad idea,

1712
02:28:09,200 --> 02:28:16,640
or I have any inside baseball
information,

1713
02:28:13,359 --> 02:28:21,120
but but was that part I guess I guess
the town recognizing that this is going

1714
02:28:18,479 --> 02:28:26,640
to go somewhere, would they reconsider
it given the fact that Verizon hasn't

1715
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:30,640
given up, if you will, of putting this
within the same coverage area. It's it's

1716
02:28:28,399 --> 02:28:34,800
it's another bad question at 920, but
you you understand?

1717
02:28:32,399 --> 02:28:39,920
» No, I I I do understand.
>> Um, candidly, that was part of the

1718
02:28:37,200 --> 02:28:45,760
discussion with the town board last year
of that there is a coverage gap in this

1719
02:28:42,960 --> 02:28:52,000
neighborhood. There is a real need for a
cell phone tower. If it is not here, it

1720
02:28:49,120 --> 02:28:59,120
will be somewhere in this search area.
and the

1721
02:28:53,920 --> 02:29:05,359
ability for the town board to put in um
restrictions or or concepts is available

1722
02:29:02,960 --> 02:29:10,319
to them as a landlord that is not
available to them as a zoning authority.

1723
02:29:07,439 --> 02:29:15,760
So that was very clearly stated to the
town board. It was very clearly stated

1724
02:29:13,040 --> 02:29:22,800
during all of the discussions and in
going over the lease. So to us this is

1725
02:29:19,760 --> 02:29:26,640
» was very well
>> explained to it was very transparent. We

1726
02:29:25,200 --> 02:29:29,200
were very clear with the town board of
it it will go somewhere in this

1727
02:29:28,479 --> 02:29:37,040
neighborhood
>> and ultimately is from Verizon's

1728
02:29:32,319 --> 02:29:40,640
standpoint is that proposal still today
given all the criteria at least from

1729
02:29:38,640 --> 02:29:47,920
your side of the ledger preferable to
what you're proposing at um what's the

1730
02:29:44,560 --> 02:29:53,280
second? Yeah, the the 1222 wildflower I
you know I think candidly no we've where

1731
02:29:50,720 --> 02:29:58,640
we started our initial conversation with
the town was the town offered and again

1732
02:29:56,640 --> 02:30:03,439
I you know I it was very collaborative
relationship and it was um over a course

1733
02:30:02,160 --> 02:30:08,319
of several years that these
conversations were happening

1734
02:30:05,439 --> 02:30:13,359
» when the town and Verizon first started
the discussions the question has was

1735
02:30:11,120 --> 02:30:18,240
only about that parcel so there was no
site selection there was no comparison

1736
02:30:15,439 --> 02:30:22,960
of other locations. There were no um you
know going through the analysis of is

1737
02:30:20,319 --> 02:30:29,040
there an alternative site because the
town had offered that as a as an option.

1738
02:30:27,120 --> 02:30:34,319
Now doing the comparison between the
other sites. Uh after last summer when

1739
02:30:31,600 --> 02:30:40,960
the town declined to enter into a lease,
Verizon looked at 11 other sites within

1740
02:30:37,439 --> 02:30:44,560
that area and found a location that is I
I think preferable to Verizon to be so

1741
02:30:43,520 --> 02:30:48,319
certainly
>> including the town site.

1742
02:30:46,080 --> 02:30:53,040
» Correct. Yes. Because we after having
the ability to go through the selection

1743
02:30:50,399 --> 02:30:58,240
process, this was you know deemed to be
a more preferable site.

1744
02:30:54,560 --> 02:30:58,240
» Great. That's helpful. Thank you.

1745
02:30:58,720 --> 02:31:06,640
So here I'll go you know I again won't
go over that public utility standard but

1746
02:31:04,000 --> 02:31:10,560
the same criteria apply here that is a
diminished standard of review rather

1747
02:31:08,720 --> 02:31:15,520
than the standard criteria set forth for
an area variance

1748
02:31:12,720 --> 02:31:20,640
here the significant gap in coverage and
also in our application it's exhibit F

1749
02:31:17,760 --> 02:31:25,600
and Q and again independently confirmed
by the times RF consultant there is a

1750
02:31:23,680 --> 02:31:30,720
significant gap in wireless coverage in
in the Webster North cell. This area is

1751
02:31:28,560 --> 02:31:35,760
currently s served by three distant
overburden sites. The two are the same

1752
02:31:33,520 --> 02:31:41,840
serving that lake road. It is Webster
and four mile creek. And here the third

1753
02:31:38,720 --> 02:31:46,319
tower is Webster Park. All three sites
have terrain and foliage challenges

1754
02:31:44,080 --> 02:31:51,359
resulting in significant gaps in both
mid lowband and mid-band coverage here.

1755
02:31:49,439 --> 02:31:56,640
Moreover, again, as we discussed on the
lake road site, actual utilization data

1756
02:31:54,319 --> 02:32:01,439
for the past year shows that several key
performance indicators have already

1757
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:05,840
exceeded that 100% utilization, which
means the existing network cannot meet

1758
02:32:03,600 --> 02:32:09,680
current demand.
The goal of this project is to increase

1759
02:32:07,760 --> 02:32:13,760
network capacity, provide reliable
coverage to North Central Webster, and

1760
02:32:12,000 --> 02:32:17,920
offload the traffic from those
overloaded sites.

1761
02:32:16,000 --> 02:32:22,319
Interestingly, we had one member of the
public testify at a planning board

1762
02:32:20,000 --> 02:32:27,760
meeting that she has no cell coverage in
her home and must leave her neighborhood

1763
02:32:24,240 --> 02:32:30,800
to make a phone call. And her testimony
illustrates the exact problem that we're

1764
02:32:29,359 --> 02:32:36,080
trying to solve with these coverage
charts. In exhibits F and Q

1765
02:32:33,920 --> 02:32:41,600
specifically, this is page 14. It's
showing that Webster North cell the

1766
02:32:39,120 --> 02:32:45,920
existing lowband coverage is akin to the
type of coverage one would have on a

1767
02:32:43,600 --> 02:32:50,000
rural highway subject to variable
conditions such as fading and

1768
02:32:47,520 --> 02:32:55,359
seasonality gaps. That means you know
items such as inhome use is very

1769
02:32:52,880 --> 02:33:00,000
difficult if not non-existent in this
area.

1770
02:32:57,439 --> 02:33:05,920
Likewise, there is little to no reliable
mid-band coverage in this area. And with

1771
02:33:03,840 --> 02:33:10,240
this project, again, as demonstrated in
our application, the area would have

1772
02:33:08,160 --> 02:33:15,600
wireless service that's appropriate for
suburban single family residential. So,

1773
02:33:12,560 --> 02:33:23,359
this unlike the Lake Road site, uh that
the midband coverage was lower here in

1774
02:33:19,200 --> 02:33:29,520
the in the north Webster North cell, uh
the the low band coverage is weaker.

1775
02:33:27,359 --> 02:33:34,240
Like the lake road site, we did review
if this is the uh the if the proposed

1776
02:33:32,399 --> 02:33:39,439
height is the minimum necessary to
provide effective coverage. Here again

1777
02:33:36,560 --> 02:33:44,560
demonstrated on page 23 and 24 of
exhibit Q and again confirmed by the

1778
02:33:41,760 --> 02:33:51,600
town's RF consultant. The supplemental
propagation plots compared coverage at

1779
02:33:46,800 --> 02:33:57,200
the proposed 13 foot 130 foot antenna
center line. So again, as we discussed,

1780
02:33:53,520 --> 02:34:04,880
it's 134 foot tower. That ACL then would
be at 130. We compared the 130 center

1781
02:34:01,200 --> 02:34:10,640
line against a reduced height of a 111
ft antenna center line and a 91 ft

1782
02:34:07,600 --> 02:34:14,720
antenna center line. In each scenario,
both low band and mid-band coverage are

1783
02:34:12,640 --> 02:34:20,160
materially compromised due to area
clutter from the dense old growth

1784
02:34:16,640 --> 02:34:24,399
forests in these neighborhoods. also
uh confirmed by the town's independent

1785
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:30,000
RF consultant that the reduced height
operations would create or expand even a

1786
02:34:27,439 --> 02:34:33,680
weak signal area north of the site along
Schlego Road to the east, Schumacher

1787
02:34:32,000 --> 02:34:38,000
Road to the west, and within the
surrounding residential neighborhoods.

1788
02:34:36,160 --> 02:34:42,240
This is because in that neighborhood
there is significant tree coverage. Um,

1789
02:34:41,457 --> 02:34:47,040
[clears throat]
and we demonstrated in our application.

1790
02:34:44,800 --> 02:34:51,920
We had a drone go up to measure actually
where the tree canopy is. And the

1791
02:34:49,359 --> 02:34:58,880
surrounding tree canopy and area clutter
reaches as high as 110 to 115 ft in this

1792
02:34:55,600 --> 02:35:01,920
neighborhood. The proposed 130 foot
antenna [clears throat] then is

1793
02:34:59,840 --> 02:35:06,479
necessary to get above that foliage so
that we can get across the clutter and

1794
02:35:04,160 --> 02:35:11,120
provide uh sufficient coverage to this
area. It is the minimum clearance that's

1795
02:35:09,280 --> 02:35:16,000
needed to maintain the effective RF
performance under these sight specific

1796
02:35:14,240 --> 02:35:21,280
conditions.
As we just discussed, uh the Verizon did

1797
02:35:19,280 --> 02:35:25,120
conduct an exhaustive alternative site
analysis after the town board declined

1798
02:35:24,000 --> 02:35:31,280
entering into a [clears throat] lease
with Verizon last summer. Um we went

1799
02:35:28,800 --> 02:35:36,399
through a site selection analysis
evaluating 11 candidates uh 11 parcels

1800
02:35:34,720 --> 02:35:39,760
within and immediately outside the
search area.

1801
02:35:38,240 --> 02:35:44,720
Interestingly, I'm sure you're familiar
with these area. These parcels are

1802
02:35:42,720 --> 02:35:52,240
usually residential parcels. They're
quite small. Um there are wetland

1803
02:35:47,120 --> 02:35:56,240
considerations back in along the um
the creek that's going up through the

1804
02:35:54,000 --> 02:36:00,560
neighborhood. So there are a lot of
sight constraints when looking at how to

1805
02:35:58,399 --> 02:36:05,680
serve and how to best serve coverage in
this neighborhood.

1806
02:36:03,200 --> 02:36:08,720
As and this is all shown again in
exhibit G that the search area is

1807
02:36:07,359 --> 02:36:12,160
heavily wooded and consists
predominantly of those smaller

1808
02:36:10,000 --> 02:36:16,640
residential lots and wetlands which
again uh severely limit the available

1809
02:36:14,399 --> 02:36:22,479
options in order for a site to be placed
to meet the setbacks.

1810
02:36:18,640 --> 02:36:26,160
The selected site at uh 1222 Wildflower
Drive is the only candidate that's both

1811
02:36:24,319 --> 02:36:30,240
technically viable from an RF
perspective and was available for lease.

1812
02:36:28,640 --> 02:36:34,560
This parcel also meets all the
applicable setback requirements.

1813
02:36:32,720 --> 02:36:39,439
The remaining candidates, so those other
T those other 10 candidates were

1814
02:36:37,200 --> 02:36:43,920
eliminated due to parkland or wetland
constraints. the landlorder land owners

1815
02:36:42,560 --> 02:36:48,960
were unwilling to enter into
negotiations or they weren't able to

1816
02:36:46,479 --> 02:36:52,800
satisfy the RF coverage objections from
the locations and those candidly are

1817
02:36:51,040 --> 02:36:57,600
predominantly the areas located outside
the search area. They were not

1818
02:36:54,479 --> 02:37:01,680
sufficient to meet the RF needs.
We've collaborated with municipal staff

1819
02:36:59,520 --> 02:37:06,080
and stakeholders over several years. We
conducted an exhaustive search that

1820
02:37:03,439 --> 02:37:10,080
extended beyond the defined search area
and identified and evaluated every

1821
02:37:08,160 --> 02:37:13,920
technically feasible site that we could
locate in the vicinity. The record

1822
02:37:12,160 --> 02:37:18,080
contains no evidence of alternative
sites that have not already been

1823
02:37:15,439 --> 02:37:22,160
thoroughly reviewed and considered.
As we discussed for the Lake Road site,

1824
02:37:20,640 --> 02:37:27,040
the project will have no adverse
environmental or community impacts.

1825
02:37:24,479 --> 02:37:31,439
Again, here local boards are expressly
preempted from denying or conditioning

1826
02:37:29,120 --> 02:37:35,280
approvals of wireless facilities based
on health or environmental effects of RF

1827
02:37:33,760 --> 02:37:40,160
emissions where facilities comply with
the FCC standards. Here those standards

1828
02:37:38,240 --> 02:37:44,160
um similar to the other application are
evidenced in exhibit O to the

1829
02:37:41,920 --> 02:37:49,439
application.
We'll also note that that tree height uh

1830
02:37:46,640 --> 02:37:55,200
that mature tree cover that is
necessitating needing this area variance

1831
02:37:51,520 --> 02:37:59,040
to go up to the 135 ft tower that also
provides coverage though and screening

1832
02:37:57,359 --> 02:38:05,600
of the tower from residents. If you
think when you're in a densely forested

1833
02:38:01,359 --> 02:38:10,000
area or or a a a an area that has a lot
of tall tree growth, when you are in the

1834
02:38:08,240 --> 02:38:14,800
neighborhood itself, you will be looking
up through the trees, which will

1835
02:38:12,640 --> 02:38:19,760
certainly screen the effect of looking
at the ant looking at the antenna. Oh my

1836
02:38:18,080 --> 02:38:23,200
goodness. Looking at the antenna when
you're actually located in the

1837
02:38:21,040 --> 02:38:27,120
neighborhood. As shown in those photo
simulations, you will be able to see the

1838
02:38:25,280 --> 02:38:31,439
tower from a distance, but from the
neighbor neighborhood itself, that tree

1839
02:38:29,600 --> 02:38:35,840
coverage should provide uh some
substantial natural screening of the

1840
02:38:33,200 --> 02:38:39,359
tower from the area residents. Again,
like the lake road site, the project

1841
02:38:37,840 --> 02:38:43,040
will not pollute. It does not create
noise. It does not increase traffic. It

1842
02:38:41,200 --> 02:38:48,960
does not create a demand on governmental
services. It is an alert facility that

1843
02:38:45,760 --> 02:38:54,720
enhances envir enhances emergency
communications and allows the residents

1844
02:38:51,840 --> 02:38:58,960
to make a call from their house and
really solve a coverage gap that that is

1845
02:38:57,120 --> 02:39:04,640
real and existing in this neighborhood
and has been um an area we've been

1846
02:39:01,600 --> 02:39:08,000
working on for many years.
>> Do you have any questions on this

1847
02:39:06,160 --> 02:39:15,200
particular application?
Um, so as I'm looking at the

1848
02:39:12,319 --> 02:39:19,760
the simulations,
um, and Erica, do you mind going to the

1849
02:39:17,520 --> 02:39:23,760
simulations,
the image simulations?

1850
02:39:22,880 --> 02:39:31,160
» What exhibit?
>> It is exhibit J K. Exhibit K of the

1851
02:39:27,840 --> 02:39:31,160
original application.

1852
02:39:46,720 --> 02:39:50,600
Yes. Yep, that's it.

1853
02:39:54,080 --> 02:40:00,800
» So, where in this photo is the cell
tower?

1854
02:39:59,200 --> 02:40:04,000
» There's two red balloons.
>> Yeah, the balloons.

1855
02:40:03,120 --> 02:40:05,600
between the two trees.
>> Right in the middle.

1856
02:40:04,640 --> 02:40:09,040
» Yep. Right in the middle.
>> Yeah. Okay.

1857
02:40:06,160 --> 02:40:12,880
» Yeah. So, the you'll see the orange
balloons, there's a leader balloon, and

1858
02:40:10,800 --> 02:40:17,680
then the second balloon is actually
where the tower height will be. So, it's

1859
02:40:14,960 --> 02:40:22,479
the the top balloon is just holding up
this the second balloon, but the second

1860
02:40:19,280 --> 02:40:25,600
balloon is where the
>> is up there first.

1861
02:40:23,280 --> 02:40:30,399
» Top is just helped from a distance.
>> Gotcha. Thank you.

1862
02:40:27,760 --> 02:40:33,920
» So then, yeah. So this first page in the
photo simulation showing the balloon

1863
02:40:32,479 --> 02:40:37,920
that's simulating the height of the
tower. Again, it's that second second

1864
02:40:36,240 --> 02:40:43,600
balloon down that showing that tower
height. And then the following page is a

1865
02:40:41,760 --> 02:40:49,560
a photo simulation of what the cell
phone tower would look like shown at

1866
02:40:45,680 --> 02:40:49,560
that height from that distance.

1867
02:40:51,439 --> 02:40:56,160
» And then that's repeated from different
>> angles.

1868
02:40:54,800 --> 02:41:02,720
» Angles. Thank you. Yeah, different
angles. Um, and where the locations of

1869
02:41:00,319 --> 02:41:06,680
the photos are taken is on the first
page of exhibit K.

1870
02:41:09,840 --> 02:41:18,000
» Okay.
Um, one of the neighbors uh in a letter

1871
02:41:14,800 --> 02:41:22,240
to the town raised a question about the
height

1872
02:41:19,600 --> 02:41:28,520
given the uh the tree the canopy the
tree canopy and what happens if the tree

1873
02:41:24,880 --> 02:41:28,520
canopy gets higher

1874
02:41:28,720 --> 02:41:37,840
» that is that so we we are here because
the tree canopy is higher than 100 ft.

1875
02:41:34,720 --> 02:41:42,880
So your code is reflective of tree
heights that that are are no longer

1876
02:41:40,080 --> 02:41:49,040
prevalent. I am not an arborist. I don't
know what the extent of the tree height

1877
02:41:44,880 --> 02:41:54,000
would be. There's only so much higher we
can go and demonstrate that need. Um,

1878
02:41:52,160 --> 02:41:58,160
I'm certainly I'm certain we would
welcome a taller tower at this time, but

1879
02:41:56,640 --> 02:42:03,439
you know, we are trying to be respectful
and mindful of only ask for the height

1880
02:42:00,720 --> 02:42:09,200
that is needed to meet the RF needs and
the coverage gap that exists today. So

1881
02:42:05,760 --> 02:42:16,319
that 135 ft is demonstrating what is
needed to meet the RF coverage today. I

1882
02:42:13,520 --> 02:42:21,920
don't know what the the future is 20
years from now if it it will need to be

1883
02:42:18,479 --> 02:42:28,000
extended, but certainly from today's RF
needs. Being below that tree line is is

1884
02:42:26,080 --> 02:42:33,520
not meeting the RF coverage. Being at
100 ft is not meeting the RF coverage.

1885
02:42:30,560 --> 02:42:38,960
Being at that 135, that's what is going
to provide

1886
02:42:35,280 --> 02:42:42,760
a meaningful RF coverage solution for
many years to come.

1887
02:42:56,640 --> 02:43:06,080
So I I have a
guess I guess it's a question. Um

1888
02:43:03,760 --> 02:43:14,240
what
all the data now is showing this is

1889
02:43:09,200 --> 02:43:19,040
needed. um firsthand experience. Used to
live in this neighborhood, don't live in

1890
02:43:15,680 --> 02:43:23,040
this neighborhood anymore. Um used to
call Verizon on a regular basis. No cell

1891
02:43:21,760 --> 02:43:27,760
phone service.
>> Um their response was, "You have perfect

1892
02:43:25,680 --> 02:43:32,479
cell phone service. You shouldn't have
an issue. I had to go and I had to leave

1893
02:43:30,240 --> 02:43:37,120
my house, go down to the end of the
street to get cell phone service."

1894
02:43:34,800 --> 02:43:41,760
So
what

1895
02:43:39,520 --> 02:43:45,439
you are now telling me they don't have
cell phone ser you know they don't have

1896
02:43:43,279 --> 02:43:49,920
coverage they were telling me they did
have coverage

1897
02:43:47,439 --> 02:43:57,279
what which is it right I mean I guess is
is where my struggle is to have a

1898
02:43:53,359 --> 02:44:01,279
corporation tell me which you should be
fine there shouldn't be any issues well

1899
02:43:59,600 --> 02:44:06,479
now they want something now they're here
saying well we don't have coverage So

1900
02:44:04,640 --> 02:44:09,760
again, year years have passed.
>> Mhm.

1901
02:44:06,960 --> 02:44:15,520
» Right. So I understand that there's more
cell phone usage now. The technology has

1902
02:44:12,399 --> 02:44:22,640
changed. I I get all that. But
help me understand how they go from

1903
02:44:19,600 --> 02:44:28,399
it's no problem, which I could I can
tell you completely different from drop

1904
02:44:24,560 --> 02:44:33,359
calls and everything else to now now
they want something and now they need

1905
02:44:30,240 --> 02:44:38,399
it. No, I I you know, you're exactly
right. Years have gone by. Capacity and

1906
02:44:36,000 --> 02:44:43,680
usage is very different even where we
were five years from now. Um, you know,

1907
02:44:41,120 --> 02:44:47,200
I don't want to speak to what the answer
was when when you called the

1908
02:44:45,439 --> 02:44:48,800
salesperson, right? That's our villain
today,

1909
02:44:47,760 --> 02:44:54,080
» right? [laughter]
>> But here, you know, we do have an RF

1910
02:44:51,439 --> 02:44:59,279
need. We have an RF coverage gap. We
have that evidence before the the ZBA.

1911
02:44:57,200 --> 02:45:02,960
We have the evidence that it was then
supported by the RF consultant. But

1912
02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:06,880
you're exactly right to ask those
questions. Those are very typical of a

1913
02:45:05,200 --> 02:45:11,520
municipality to ask. It is what the
planning board asked of why should we

1914
02:45:09,359 --> 02:45:15,600
believe you? We're just looking at your
data. Um and that's exactly why the

1915
02:45:13,920 --> 02:45:19,520
planning board and then the planning
board asked the town board and the town

1916
02:45:17,040 --> 02:45:24,640
board engaged an independent RF
consultant for for that exact question.

1917
02:45:21,840 --> 02:45:29,120
It is typical of municipalities to ask.
It's certainly a fair question to ask,

1918
02:45:26,640 --> 02:45:33,600
but that has resulted in the RF
consultant being engaged by the town.

1919
02:45:31,680 --> 02:45:38,560
Why you were told there was coverage
years ago? You know, I I don't know, but

1920
02:45:35,840 --> 02:45:41,680
I can very confidently say, as you
experience,

1921
02:45:39,680 --> 02:45:45,200
» you're not being gaslight gas lit. There
is a coverage problem in this

1922
02:45:43,040 --> 02:45:49,120
neighborhood. You are correct.
>> And they're trying to upgrade.

1923
02:45:47,840 --> 02:45:52,080
» Yes.
>> Okay.

1924
02:45:49,600 --> 02:45:58,720
» What a good segue to bring in the town.
>> Yes. I I think uh unless anybody has any

1925
02:45:54,800 --> 02:46:05,000
any questions for this site, um let's
bring out the

1926
02:46:00,640 --> 02:46:05,000
uh the town expert.

1927
02:46:05,520 --> 02:46:08,920
Come on up.

1928
02:46:10,800 --> 02:46:18,399
» Uh good evening. I'm William Johnson,
hired as the uh technical expert on

1929
02:46:15,040 --> 02:46:24,240
these uh two sites. uh my colleague,
Professor Stephen Chikarelli and I uh we

1930
02:46:21,200 --> 02:46:28,880
don't advocate for towers. We also don't
uh uh lobby against them. Uh we try to

1931
02:46:27,120 --> 02:46:34,000
make sure that the planning boards and
zoning boards have the information in a

1932
02:46:30,880 --> 02:46:41,359
factual uh manner that allows them to
then do a even-handed uh analysis of the

1933
02:46:37,840 --> 02:46:44,720
uh situation. Uh I wanted to go back to
uh attorney to Marco's question. I I

1934
02:46:43,439 --> 02:46:49,359
just want to be sure that was answered.
You asked the question about the lake

1935
02:46:46,319 --> 02:46:54,800
road site that if capacity had not been
the issue uh would there be a need for a

1936
02:46:52,880 --> 02:46:58,960
tower at this site. The answer to that
is no. Uh but that's not the situation.

1937
02:46:57,200 --> 02:47:04,960
The situation is there is a capacity
issue and uh the number of users in that

1938
02:47:02,399 --> 02:47:10,240
area are overusing
the existing adjacent sites. So in order

1939
02:47:07,520 --> 02:47:14,240
to fix that problem, it isn't adding
radio frequency coverage. That's a

1940
02:47:12,000 --> 02:47:19,520
solution. it's drawing traffic from
those sites to a more uh localized tower

1941
02:47:17,520 --> 02:47:24,880
which will then support those particular
users. So I hope that perhaps you had

1942
02:47:22,800 --> 02:47:27,439
your question answered but I wasn't sure
that uh it was put in those sort of

1943
02:47:27,040 --> 02:47:31,840
terms.
>> No, I I appreciate that and and it was

1944
02:47:29,439 --> 02:47:34,319
it was it was that coupled with the
quantitative

1945
02:47:33,520 --> 02:47:39,840
» right
>> u measurement if there is one or it's

1946
02:47:38,000 --> 02:47:43,200
kind of you know it when you see it type
of thing.

1947
02:47:40,479 --> 02:47:49,680
» Yeah. on that particular point. So in in
wireless communications terms, uh it's

1948
02:47:47,040 --> 02:47:54,160
it's sort of a soft failure. Okay, it
isn't like all of a sudden you have no

1949
02:47:51,920 --> 02:47:58,240
service at all, but when you start
hitting capacity at a site, everybody

1950
02:47:56,560 --> 02:48:03,920
has to share the same bandwidth, which
means everybody gets less time on that

1951
02:48:01,040 --> 02:48:08,800
particular uh uh base station. And when
that gets to be too reduced, that's when

1952
02:48:06,960 --> 02:48:14,160
this saturation problem starts to
happen. So it's possible in both of

1953
02:48:11,760 --> 02:48:20,640
these locations that at times during the
day uh particularly talking about north

1954
02:48:17,120 --> 02:48:25,040
uh wipes north site uh there is no
strong server in that area either at low

1955
02:48:22,880 --> 02:48:29,680
band or mid-band but that doesn't mean
that somebody might on occasion be able

1956
02:48:27,520 --> 02:48:33,840
to get a call. Uh they they may be
holding their their phone to the right

1957
02:48:31,840 --> 02:48:38,640
ear and [snorts] the base station's over
here whereas if they spin around they're

1958
02:48:37,200 --> 02:48:42,880
going to be facing the base station. So,
so the cranium does absorb some of the

1959
02:48:40,640 --> 02:48:46,160
electromagnetic energy and can make the
difference between a call that goes

1960
02:48:44,160 --> 02:48:49,520
through or doesn't go through. If you're
sitting in an automobile trying to make

1961
02:48:47,840 --> 02:48:54,319
a call, of course, with your hands-free
device, a truck or another vehicle pulls

1962
02:48:52,479 --> 02:48:57,920
up alongside you waiting at a
intersection, uh that may be the

1963
02:48:56,560 --> 02:49:02,960
difference between a call that it goes
through or doesn't go through. So, it's

1964
02:48:59,520 --> 02:49:07,840
a it's a soft failure that occurs. So
it's there's no hard and fast rule, but

1965
02:49:05,200 --> 02:49:12,880
the the metrics that come out of those
soft failures are what are documented on

1966
02:49:10,560 --> 02:49:16,880
those plots, right? You're see you're
seeing times that it it spikes and

1967
02:49:14,880 --> 02:49:22,399
you're seeing times that it drops down
again below the 100% level. So it it you

1968
02:49:20,000 --> 02:49:26,560
know doesn't mean it's always impossible
to make a call. It's just that it

1969
02:49:24,319 --> 02:49:30,000
becomes less and less likely to get that
kind of reliability.

1970
02:49:27,840 --> 02:49:32,160
» So if I have less in my cranium, that's
a reason why I've never missed a call.

1971
02:49:31,612 --> 02:49:36,560
[laughter]
And that's why you and I can make phone

1972
02:49:33,840 --> 02:49:42,240
calls very well. Some of our colleagues
staff u the u uh yeah so so I guess we I

1973
02:49:41,120 --> 02:49:48,800
guess we'll just leave it at that. We
won't go too deep into that.

1974
02:49:43,840 --> 02:49:53,040
» U so um u attorney uh Smith has made a
very good presentation. I was hearing a

1975
02:49:50,399 --> 02:49:59,279
lot of the jargon that was in my report
and you know of course it's a common uh

1976
02:49:57,439 --> 02:50:02,800
you know wireless is something that that
they work in every day and something

1977
02:50:01,040 --> 02:50:07,200
that professor Chikarelli and I work on
every day too. So not surprising that

1978
02:50:04,960 --> 02:50:13,840
there's some uh connection between these
two. Uh it probably would be easiest if

1979
02:50:10,880 --> 02:50:18,319
you had questions for me uh that I can
try to answer. I I have no disagreement

1980
02:50:16,240 --> 02:50:24,000
with anything that Attorney Smith told
you. Uh, Professor Chikarelli and I have

1981
02:50:21,279 --> 02:50:28,880
looked at the uh, changes in height for
the proposed tower. Uh, we have met

1982
02:50:26,399 --> 02:50:33,439
twice online with Verizon's radio
frequency engineers and we talked

1983
02:50:30,960 --> 02:50:37,520
engineering, right? Is is what can be
done? What's going on? Where's the

1984
02:50:34,960 --> 02:50:42,880
really important non-negotiable areas?
And, you know, some of that is actually

1985
02:50:39,040 --> 02:50:47,040
on the shore of the lake. Uh, if I had a
flashlight and I was trying to shine it

1986
02:50:44,800 --> 02:50:50,080
over a piece of furniture, if I was
close to that piece of furniture, I

1987
02:50:48,319 --> 02:50:54,800
really don't have to go very high. But
if I get back away from that escarment

1988
02:50:52,000 --> 02:51:00,240
and I and I try to reach over the top of
that sofa, I I have to get higher in

1989
02:50:57,200 --> 02:51:06,080
order to do that. Terrain is certainly
an issue. Uh, loss of signal inside

1990
02:51:03,840 --> 02:51:10,399
foliage that's around where the tower is
located, that's an issue. Uh, all those

1991
02:51:08,880 --> 02:51:15,200
things are called clutter. So terrain
and obstacles are clutter to the radio

1992
02:51:13,359 --> 02:51:20,160
frequency signal. It has to get up above
those in order to be very effective in

1993
02:51:17,840 --> 02:51:23,760
terms of collocation. Uh the site's
being built to have two colloccators.

1994
02:51:22,000 --> 02:51:27,760
Very perceptive question and I forget
who asked that uh question. That means

1995
02:51:25,920 --> 02:51:31,200
that if someone comes in to colllocate,
they're going to have to go lower. And

1996
02:51:29,520 --> 02:51:36,080
you will see the effect in the
propagation plots of what that looks

1997
02:51:33,439 --> 02:51:41,200
like. It reduces the footprint, the area
that the uh base station can uh service

1998
02:51:39,200 --> 02:51:45,279
and they would have to deal with that or
they would have to propose another tower

1999
02:51:43,359 --> 02:51:49,120
uh or put an extension on the existing
tower uh to get it up above so that they

2000
02:51:47,279 --> 02:51:53,200
get a bigger footprint and that would be
a question for the planning board. It

2001
02:51:50,399 --> 02:51:58,240
would be a question for you uh to go and
look through this again to try to figure

2002
02:51:54,880 --> 02:52:02,640
out what's what's appropriate to do. Are
there other ways that these could be

2003
02:52:00,080 --> 02:52:07,200
solved? Uh if you if you you know were
in an airplane and you were looking at

2004
02:52:04,399 --> 02:52:12,160
you know from 20,000 ft up you would see
a bunch of base stations that are you

2005
02:52:09,920 --> 02:52:15,200
know scattered throughout the area.
There's nothing that says you couldn't

2006
02:52:13,680 --> 02:52:23,760
put
7 10 15 100 foot towers 90 foot towers

2007
02:52:20,399 --> 02:52:27,120
in an area. Uh it would be essentially
the same cost per tower to put that in.

2008
02:52:25,760 --> 02:52:31,200
So I'm not going to get into the
finances of it. Okay. But you're

2009
02:52:29,520 --> 02:52:35,040
putting, you know, you're not you're not
putting something just on a pole that's

2010
02:52:32,960 --> 02:52:39,359
10 or 15 feet up in the air. You're
putting a tower that's probably going to

2011
02:52:36,640 --> 02:52:43,680
be up in the 80 to 90 foot range uh to
cover a parochially small area because

2012
02:52:41,520 --> 02:52:47,520
of the trees and because of the radio
frequency obstacles. And every single

2013
02:52:45,840 --> 02:52:51,359
one of those sites, you're going to be
having a hearing like this and you're

2014
02:52:48,880 --> 02:52:57,359
going to have opposition from residents
uh for those. So, you know, minimum

2015
02:52:54,160 --> 02:53:01,840
impact on the community, uh, and
possibly the feasibility of doing

2016
02:52:59,760 --> 02:53:05,200
something like I just described, those
have to be balanced and they have to

2017
02:53:03,200 --> 02:53:10,800
weigh in. Okay, this this site is a
single site. U, it will provide the

2018
02:53:08,399 --> 02:53:15,920
coverage that Verizon needs to have.
There is a gap whether it's capacity or

2019
02:53:13,279 --> 02:53:20,640
coverage in both of those locations. And
the heights that Verizon is proposing

2020
02:53:18,720 --> 02:53:25,040
from a engineering point of view looking
at the propagation plots uh seems to be

2021
02:53:23,359 --> 02:53:30,000
that those are the minimum heights that
they actually need to get those kind of

2022
02:53:27,760 --> 02:53:36,240
that kind of service. And one last
comment before I uh stand by uh

2023
02:53:34,560 --> 02:53:39,120
the question is is there really a gap
here or is because we're looking at

2024
02:53:37,600 --> 02:53:42,560
Verizon's information, right? We're
looking at propagation plots. We're

2025
02:53:40,640 --> 02:53:46,080
looking at uh information that comes
from about the key performance

2026
02:53:44,160 --> 02:53:51,600
indicators. There's a lot of that
information that you or I can't

2027
02:53:49,359 --> 02:53:55,680
independently generate. Okay, I don't
have access to get inside their switch.

2028
02:53:53,279 --> 02:53:59,439
I wish I did, but I'm not a hacker. Uh,
but if I could get in there and look at

2029
02:53:57,359 --> 02:54:03,439
those key performance indicators myself,
then my guess is I would probably see

2030
02:54:01,439 --> 02:54:08,319
what they have presented to us uh
tonight. There is a website that's

2031
02:54:05,920 --> 02:54:13,680
called opensignal.com.
All one word, open signal. and uh you

2032
02:54:11,279 --> 02:54:18,640
can load that onto your smartphone and
then there are features on that where

2033
02:54:15,600 --> 02:54:23,200
you can actually look at a map and see
what the coverage is for the various

2034
02:54:20,720 --> 02:54:27,760
carriers. So, Professor Cheryl and I did
that uh because we just do that as a

2035
02:54:25,760 --> 02:54:31,359
matter of course trying to look to see,
you know, is there an independent

2036
02:54:28,960 --> 02:54:38,000
confirmation? Uh it matches pretty well
to what's happening in uh Webster North.

2037
02:54:34,800 --> 02:54:43,040
Now we don't have that information uh at
uh uh Lake Road and County Line Road and

2038
02:54:41,279 --> 02:54:47,520
that's because there already are some
existing sites that are there. Uh so

2039
02:54:45,279 --> 02:54:50,720
there are some calls that are actually
going through there is radio frequency

2040
02:54:49,200 --> 02:54:56,880
coverage but what I can tell you is the
Webster North site uh shows I I actually

2041
02:54:53,520 --> 02:55:01,760
put their propagation plot and the uh
information from open signal.com uh over

2042
02:54:59,760 --> 02:55:06,080
the top of each other and it almost
predicted uh what Verizon has has

2043
02:55:04,080 --> 02:55:09,840
produced. So, Professor Chikarelli and
I, even though he's not here tonight,

2044
02:55:07,840 --> 02:55:13,439
I'm going to speak for him that that uh
we're we're very convinced that the

2045
02:55:11,760 --> 02:55:17,439
information you're looking at is valid
information and uh it could be

2046
02:55:15,840 --> 02:55:22,479
independently confirmed, but I don't
think you need to do that. Uh I I've

2047
02:55:20,479 --> 02:55:27,600
been involved with doing this type of
work probably for the last 30 uh years

2048
02:55:25,120 --> 02:55:32,240
or so, and early on in that the
propagation tools were not very

2049
02:55:29,279 --> 02:55:35,920
accurate. Uh, currently the propagation
tools compared to an actual drive test

2050
02:55:34,479 --> 02:55:40,000
where you put an antenna on the roof of
a car and run it around the roads. We

2051
02:55:38,240 --> 02:55:43,920
can't get into people's backyards, but
we can be on the on the main roads. If

2052
02:55:42,399 --> 02:55:49,040
you put those things over the top of
each other, like the open signal.com uh

2053
02:55:46,800 --> 02:55:54,319
exercise that I described, uh, you see a
very good correlation in present day

2054
02:55:52,080 --> 02:55:57,840
between what is being uh, shown in the
simulation and what's actually real

2055
02:55:56,080 --> 02:56:01,439
world uh, measurements. If we were
having this conversation 30 years ago, I

2056
02:56:00,080 --> 02:56:05,359
wouldn't be able to be quite that
authoritative about it. Uh there was big

2057
02:56:03,680 --> 02:56:09,600
discrepancies between the propagation
tools and the actual performance. Uh but

2058
02:56:07,840 --> 02:56:14,720
these days, the reliability of that
information is pretty pretty good. So I

2059
02:56:11,760 --> 02:56:18,880
hope that helps you. Uh and I be happy
to answer questions if you have them.

2060
02:56:17,760 --> 02:56:21,680
» Thank you for that because that was
actually going to be one of my questions

2061
02:56:20,000 --> 02:56:25,200
is where where did you get the data
from? Okay.

2062
02:56:22,560 --> 02:56:29,520
» Came from Verizon. Um, but you were able
to at least one of the sites do an

2063
02:56:27,600 --> 02:56:36,800
independent confirmation.
>> Um, and that lined up pretty well. Um,

2064
02:56:33,920 --> 02:56:45,439
over the course of your career doing
this, how well does Verizon's data play

2065
02:56:41,840 --> 02:56:47,680
nicely or line up?
You know, [clears throat] follow what

2066
02:56:47,040 --> 02:56:53,040
I'm asking?
>> I I I I follow what you're asking. So uh

2067
02:56:51,200 --> 02:56:58,080
when you when you do this type of work
and you engage with the technical folks

2068
02:56:56,000 --> 02:57:02,399
at on the other side of the fence uh
with Verizon you do develop uh some

2069
02:57:00,800 --> 02:57:07,680
familiarity with who the people are that
you're dealing with. Uh so we do have

2070
02:57:04,479 --> 02:57:11,520
some very honest conversations uh about
these sort of things about how accurate

2071
02:57:09,439 --> 02:57:18,640
is this and and where where are things
settling uh settling in. Uh Verizon has

2072
02:57:14,960 --> 02:57:21,680
been very good uh you know at least at
least talking to their technical folks

2073
02:57:20,319 --> 02:57:26,319
which is you know where professor
Chikarelli and I spend our time is

2074
02:57:23,359 --> 02:57:30,319
talking to their engineers. Uh there has
always been a collaborative you know

2075
02:57:28,880 --> 02:57:34,000
pretty much they're not scared to show
us what they can show us. Uh, you know,

2076
02:57:32,720 --> 02:57:38,240
sometimes they show us some good stuff
that that uh, you know, perhaps wasn't

2077
02:57:36,800 --> 02:57:42,399
actually entered into the record. Like
we've seen the video for the for the

2078
02:57:40,399 --> 02:57:47,120
drone flight, right? It was wasn't just
still photographs, but it was actually a

2079
02:57:44,240 --> 02:57:51,120
rotating drone video uh, that showed us
what the tree heights were, which is why

2080
02:57:48,640 --> 02:57:55,520
we're fairly convinced that to go lower
than the proposed height would now start

2081
02:57:53,680 --> 02:57:59,520
to put those antennas down into the tree
line. Uh, you've got four photographs.

2082
02:57:57,760 --> 02:58:03,920
We've got a north north south east and
west uh photograph but those are very

2083
02:58:01,439 --> 02:58:07,920
representative of what the actual video
shows but I don't think they can easily

2084
02:58:05,600 --> 02:58:11,439
put that video into record to do that
but professor chigarella and I did look

2085
02:58:09,600 --> 02:58:14,720
at those at those things and there's
other things like that that we try to

2086
02:58:12,960 --> 02:58:17,920
just cross check
>> uh so I I have a very high confidence

2087
02:58:16,479 --> 02:58:23,359
that the material that you've been
provided is is good not that not just

2088
02:58:20,319 --> 02:58:29,439
for this particular case but uh for the
last couple of decades they've been very

2089
02:58:25,279 --> 02:58:33,680
straightforward. Thank you. Um,
I think this has already been answered,

2090
02:58:30,880 --> 02:58:39,359
but I'm going to ask it anyway. Uh,
tower height and the lease. Ultimately,

2091
02:58:36,880 --> 02:58:44,160
take the lease aside,
regardless of if Verizon decides to

2092
02:58:42,000 --> 02:58:48,800
lease out or not, the height that is
proposed is the height that is necessary

2093
02:58:46,319 --> 02:58:54,720
for the coverage that has been
identified to be able to um to increase

2094
02:58:52,479 --> 02:58:59,359
coverage, to increase capacity. Correct.
Anything lower really isn't going to

2095
02:58:57,359 --> 02:59:02,479
meet the needs of of the area.
>> Yeah, that that's our opinion and we

2096
02:59:01,040 --> 02:59:06,240
actually asked for that material to be
put in the record uh so that you had it

2097
02:59:04,800 --> 02:59:08,800
so that you could also see the
comparison, but that's the same

2098
02:59:07,520 --> 02:59:10,560
materials we looked at. We didn't look
at anything different than what you're

2099
02:59:10,080 --> 02:59:13,279
seeing.
>> Perfect.

2100
02:59:11,439 --> 02:59:16,560
» So what what they're asking for is the
absolute minimum to pro what they're

2101
02:59:15,120 --> 02:59:20,880
asking for is the absolute minimum to
provide coverage, not necessarily for

2102
02:59:18,399 --> 02:59:25,439
the densification of the network.
Yeah, this is yeah, those those heights

2103
02:59:22,560 --> 02:59:29,520
that are being proposed are at or near,
you know, I try to fudge that just a

2104
02:59:27,040 --> 02:59:32,640
little bit, right? It if it was two feet
lower or two feet higher, it's not going

2105
02:59:31,200 --> 02:59:37,040
to make a huge difference, right? That
that that antenna center line is what

2106
02:59:34,319 --> 02:59:42,000
they need to offload the adjacent sites
for capacity issues, but particularly in

2107
02:59:39,200 --> 02:59:45,200
Webster North to provide new coverage
because there's areas there that just

2108
02:59:43,439 --> 02:59:51,520
don't have any coverage at all.
>> Okay. Thank you. does um you know you

2109
02:59:50,160 --> 02:59:58,399
drive through the aderondex the
Catskills um there are cell towers that

2110
02:59:55,760 --> 03:00:03,200
have um
provided

2111
03:00:00,960 --> 03:00:09,040
awful aesthetic but aesthetic uh
enhancements [snorts] to try and hide

2112
03:00:04,880 --> 03:00:14,240
them. Um do those enhancements affect
the coverage area?

2113
03:00:11,920 --> 03:00:18,479
» If if we're talking low band, it doesn't
affect it so much. uh it's it's feasible

2114
03:00:17,040 --> 03:00:22,560
to do that. There are a lot of stealth
sites that are in the area uh at low

2115
03:00:20,720 --> 03:00:27,520
band. Uh now when you go to the
mid-band, it's higher frequency. So

2116
03:00:25,200 --> 03:00:31,279
putting the artificial limbs on on the
trees and putting leaves out in front of

2117
03:00:29,120 --> 03:00:36,720
the antennas. So you know these are
plastic, right? So that they don't

2118
03:00:33,359 --> 03:00:40,399
actually absorb the uh uh energy. Uh but
it turns out that those do enough things

2119
03:00:38,560 --> 03:00:45,279
with defraction of the radio waves to
disrupt how the antenna was designed to

2120
03:00:42,880 --> 03:00:52,560
perform. So there is some degradation
and we have Verizon I say we Verizon put

2121
03:00:49,840 --> 03:00:58,319
a site in in Pittsver. It's a stealth
site that's in a bell tower in uh the

2122
03:00:55,279 --> 03:01:04,000
the town of Pittsver and uh was a very
nice uh site. It works pretty well for

2123
03:01:00,880 --> 03:01:07,600
for low band, but uh for the midband uh
there are some problems. And there's

2124
03:01:05,600 --> 03:01:11,520
problems when you have a a dialectric
material, plastic material, and you try

2125
03:01:09,600 --> 03:01:15,359
to shoot a signal sideways through that
material. If you're shooting straight

2126
03:01:13,040 --> 03:01:19,200
on, it's way radar uh systems, you see
those rotating, you know, radar beams or

2127
03:01:17,359 --> 03:01:23,040
the big domes that are the weather
radar, that signal is shooting straight

2128
03:01:21,120 --> 03:01:26,160
through that plastic material, but when
it shoots through at an angle, uh

2129
03:01:24,800 --> 03:01:29,920
there's there's very bad things that
happen to the radio signal. But that's

2130
03:01:27,840 --> 03:01:34,720
that's part of the RF engineering, and
that's one of the reasons stealth sites

2131
03:01:31,520 --> 03:01:38,399
are uh not preferred. But if they're
necessary, there's some degradation in

2132
03:01:36,399 --> 03:01:45,439
technical performance for the advantage
of an aesthetic improvement. A 135 ft

2133
03:01:42,479 --> 03:01:49,520
artificial tree, okay, may may be a
little bit questionable. Okay. Or 125

2134
03:01:48,080 --> 03:01:53,840
foot artificial tree might be a little
bit question standing by itself, but

2135
03:01:51,520 --> 03:01:57,520
that's a m matter for the planning board
and for you folks to consider.

2136
03:01:55,680 --> 03:02:02,399
» Understood. Other questions from the
board before I open up to the public? I

2137
03:01:59,520 --> 03:02:08,479
would say that any type of at that
height, if you're going to create a fake

2138
03:02:05,200 --> 03:02:12,399
tree, it's going to stick out as fake
tree anyhow. In my opinion, worse than a

2139
03:02:10,640 --> 03:02:16,720
monopole would be,
>> but that's an opinion, not a question.

2140
03:02:15,760 --> 03:02:19,840
» Other questions before I [clears throat]
open up to the public? Not

2141
03:02:18,640 --> 03:02:24,000
» yet.
>> So, I'd like to open up to the public

2142
03:02:21,840 --> 03:02:29,680
who whoever may want to speak for or
against this project.

2143
03:02:26,560 --> 03:02:35,920
» Which one? [snorts] Um
when you when you come up if

2144
03:02:33,680 --> 03:02:40,000
» can can I have them come up for either
site and just specify which site John?

2145
03:02:39,200 --> 03:02:43,359
» Yeah that's fine.
>> Okay. So just specify what site you are

2146
03:02:42,000 --> 03:02:46,136
speaking for or against?
>> Webster North.

2147
03:02:44,160 --> 03:02:46,640
» Webster North. Thank you.
[clears throat]

2148
03:02:46,319 --> 03:02:52,960
» Hi.
>> Can we before the public starts? We just

2149
03:02:50,720 --> 03:02:56,000
for the minutes I think it's cleaner if
we keep them separate for the public

2150
03:02:55,040 --> 03:02:59,840
hearings.
>> Okay. Then let's do Webster North then

2151
03:02:58,160 --> 03:03:01,200
first since you're the first one up.
>> Okay. Thank you.

2152
03:03:00,640 --> 03:03:06,960
» Yep.
>> Uh my name is Jared Pashard. I [cough]

2153
03:03:03,279 --> 03:03:12,560
live at 632 Pine Lakes Trail and I'm
here tonight to speak on behalf of

2154
03:03:09,279 --> 03:03:17,600
Webster Presbyterian Church. They have
heard of the opposition to this cell

2155
03:03:14,880 --> 03:03:21,920
phone tower. No one really wants it in
their backyard. They understand that and

2156
03:03:20,160 --> 03:03:28,640
they are very sympathetic to the
community and they would like to make

2157
03:03:24,160 --> 03:03:34,800
this offer to both the town, the zoning,
the planning board and Verizon that the

2158
03:03:31,600 --> 03:03:40,240
Webster Presbyterian Church located at
550 Webster Road would be very open to

2159
03:03:38,319 --> 03:03:45,840
the cell phone tower being put on their
property.

2160
03:03:42,080 --> 03:03:51,680
That I hope you consider. They have a a
a decentsized piece of property and it

2161
03:03:48,399 --> 03:03:56,960
would really virtually affect very
limited amount of houses. I think only

2162
03:03:53,600 --> 03:04:02,800
one home and even that's questionable.
So, I hope this board takes that to

2163
03:03:59,279 --> 03:04:09,840
consideration and Verizon does as well
because this is a very generous offer

2164
03:04:05,279 --> 03:04:16,160
from this comm my church and um it might
help alleviate some of the anxiety that

2165
03:04:12,880 --> 03:04:17,840
that homeowners are having.
>> Thank you for your time.

2166
03:04:17,279 --> 03:04:21,120
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

2167
03:04:18,560 --> 03:04:29,800
» Others who want to speak for or against
uh Webster North,

2168
03:04:24,240 --> 03:04:29,800
» come on up. Speak your name and address.

2169
03:04:32,880 --> 03:04:43,439
» My name is Barbara Robbins and I live at
1205 Wildflower Drive in Webster and I

2170
03:04:40,000 --> 03:04:50,399
had submitted a petition with 95
signatures to the town planning board.

2171
03:04:47,040 --> 03:04:55,920
And I actually was the only person who
walked around the neighborhood and spoke

2172
03:04:52,960 --> 03:05:00,319
to all of the residents and obtained
signatures from people. And the

2173
03:04:58,720 --> 03:05:07,439
individuals
that had problems with their cell phone

2174
03:05:03,520 --> 03:05:13,680
coverage were all Verizon customers.
There were no other carriers that

2175
03:05:10,560 --> 03:05:21,200
expressed individuals that expressed
issues with their coverage other than

2176
03:05:16,160 --> 03:05:28,080
Verizon. I know a few people um after
talking with um Verizon, they offered

2177
03:05:24,560 --> 03:05:33,359
them the additional uh boosters to put
into their homes so that it would help

2178
03:05:30,479 --> 03:05:37,439
them. There were other individuals that
said no matter if they had something in

2179
03:05:35,439 --> 03:05:41,920
their house or not, if they stood in a
corner, they couldn't get coverage

2180
03:05:39,200 --> 03:05:45,920
unless they walked out their front door.
It's not that we don't want people in

2181
03:05:44,240 --> 03:05:51,040
our neighborhood to have coverage
because I feel that's important for

2182
03:05:47,840 --> 03:05:58,399
anybody who wants to have a cell phone,
but our neighborhood is made up of very

2183
03:05:55,040 --> 03:06:04,479
large trees. And that is part of why we
purchased the home that we did 24 years

2184
03:06:01,359 --> 03:06:09,600
ago. My husband, when we were looking to
move from the Maplewood neighborhood to

2185
03:06:06,880 --> 03:06:15,120
out here to Webster, he didn't want to
look for a new development because we

2186
03:06:12,319 --> 03:06:20,479
didn't want a six-foot tree in our yard.
We wanted a tree that was taller than

2187
03:06:18,399 --> 03:06:28,319
our home.
And we don't want to see, you know, the

2188
03:06:24,000 --> 03:06:36,720
trees be cut down or in a few years if
this tower that's 139 ft, you know, 39

2189
03:06:32,800 --> 03:06:43,120
ft above what the town has right now as
the height for towers and things. Um,

2190
03:06:41,040 --> 03:06:50,240
are they going to have to go in and cut
down trees? The gentleman over here,

2191
03:06:46,160 --> 03:06:56,479
John, he asked attorney Smith a question
about what happens when the trees

2192
03:06:52,399 --> 03:07:01,920
continue to grow. It really that Verizon
didn't need to come back and ask for

2193
03:06:59,120 --> 03:07:07,200
additional approval if the height of the
tower or the pole was increased. It

2194
03:07:05,439 --> 03:07:15,840
would just be that they could just
increase it at random. When I walk out

2195
03:07:10,720 --> 03:07:22,720
my front door at 1205 Wildflower Drive,
I'm going to see that tower across the

2196
03:07:19,120 --> 03:07:26,479
street. We thought that having it
camouflage [clears throat] was going to

2197
03:07:24,560 --> 03:07:30,880
be an option.
We had not heard nor have I read

2198
03:07:28,720 --> 03:07:37,439
anything where it ever stated, you know,
that it impeded the um the radio

2199
03:07:34,160 --> 03:07:42,160
frequency. So, that in and of itself is
another concern. I know people that live

2200
03:07:40,080 --> 03:07:48,479
up the street from us, they have a pool
in their backyard. Um,

2201
03:07:45,600 --> 03:07:55,359
this tower is going to be right off the
side of their yard. They own about three

2202
03:07:51,920 --> 03:08:00,560
and a half or 4 acres
and it's just not something that's

2203
03:07:57,520 --> 03:08:05,760
really conducive. We don't even realize
if where this tower is looking to be

2204
03:08:04,160 --> 03:08:10,960
built.
Are they going to be clearing out a lot

2205
03:08:08,080 --> 03:08:14,560
of the um trees that are in that
property in order to get this back in

2206
03:08:14,000 --> 03:08:22,080
there?
>> So, uh one thing I want to address, if

2207
03:08:17,680 --> 03:08:25,760
Verizon has to go taller,
they do have to come back to the zoning

2208
03:08:24,080 --> 03:08:31,600
board to go taller.
>> They do.

2209
03:08:26,560 --> 03:08:38,720
» Yep. because the motion will be for us
uh for this particular tower will be for

2210
03:08:34,319 --> 03:08:45,040
a height of it was I think it's 139 ft.
Um so if they want to go another 10 ft

2211
03:08:42,479 --> 03:08:49,200
taller because the trees have grown they
will have to come back to the zoning

2212
03:08:46,640 --> 03:08:52,560
board for that. I they probably don't
have to go to the planning board, but

2213
03:08:51,279 --> 03:08:57,359
they will have to come back to the
zoning board because the the height

2214
03:08:55,840 --> 03:08:59,040
the zoning board is restricting it to
that height.

2215
03:08:58,319 --> 03:09:04,319
» Okay. So,
>> and because they're leasing the land

2216
03:09:01,680 --> 03:09:08,240
from the owner, I doubt whether their
lease gives them approval to trim down

2217
03:09:06,160 --> 03:09:11,920
the trees to whatever height they want,
but that would be between Verizon and

2218
03:09:10,399 --> 03:09:15,920
the land owner,
>> but it's unlikely that they would. I

2219
03:09:14,080 --> 03:09:21,200
would very much encourage though for
them to look at the Presbyterian site. I

2220
03:09:18,399 --> 03:09:26,319
mean, we do walk around the block. It is
probably something that still could be

2221
03:09:23,279 --> 03:09:33,040
seen, but it wouldn't be in the direct
area and it wouldn't have all kinds of

2222
03:09:29,680 --> 03:09:36,399
forest that's going to affect it.
>> Y understood.

2223
03:09:35,600 --> 03:09:37,520
» Thank you.
>> Thank you.

2224
03:09:36,880 --> 03:09:44,520
» Thank you.
>> Does anybody else want to speak for or

2225
03:09:39,439 --> 03:09:44,520
against uh the North site?

2226
03:09:47,200 --> 03:09:53,040
Hi folks, Kevin Lockard, [clears throat]
town of Webster Street.

2227
03:09:51,359 --> 03:09:57,840
Why don't we just make a local law that
says that the town boards can do

2228
03:09:54,640 --> 03:10:02,720
whatever they want around here?
I've haven't seen this much theatrics

2229
03:09:59,920 --> 03:10:07,920
around a town board in
well, probably a few weeks.

2230
03:10:05,600 --> 03:10:11,840
But you guys are doing this big
theatrical performance tonight, I guess,

2231
03:10:10,080 --> 03:10:17,200
about
whether to approve a 39 ft variance or

2232
03:10:14,880 --> 03:10:22,240
an area variance.
You guys know what you have to do

2233
03:10:18,479 --> 03:10:26,479
because the town code dictates what your
decisions have to be. So, I knew the

2234
03:10:23,920 --> 03:10:30,160
outcome of this meeting prior to coming
into this meeting, and you guys know the

2235
03:10:28,240 --> 03:10:36,080
outcome of this meeting prior to coming
into this meeting. So, why the

2236
03:10:32,560 --> 03:10:40,361
three-hour long theatrical performance,
I suppose, is my question. It's not

2237
03:10:37,920 --> 03:10:43,359
really being fair to folks. Now, we do
[clears throat] have to make sure that

2238
03:10:41,840 --> 03:10:49,760
we supplement the record and that it's
diligently pursued, for lack of a better

2239
03:10:45,920 --> 03:10:55,520
term. So, I think that you guys
are required to go and inspect the

2240
03:10:52,640 --> 03:11:01,359
Presbyterian Church on Webster Road to
determine whether it's less intrusive.

2241
03:10:59,279 --> 03:11:07,359
There's a real hardship here regarding
the residents over on Wildflower.

2242
03:11:04,640 --> 03:11:10,960
All the neighboring houses are going to
have their property values diminished

2243
03:11:09,279 --> 03:11:17,760
because of the aesthetics and because of
the the perception of the cell phone

2244
03:11:13,920 --> 03:11:21,920
tower. So
the least that you could that you folks

2245
03:11:19,600 --> 03:11:27,520
can do and I know there's a lot of
talking from Verizon. There's we have an

2246
03:11:25,120 --> 03:11:34,800
independent contractor with lots of
information. But what you guys need to

2247
03:11:29,359 --> 03:11:40,000
do is actually very simple, which is
deny the deny the height variance for

2248
03:11:37,439 --> 03:11:46,880
these folks because I'm look I'm looking
at you guys and I'm thinking these guys

2249
03:11:44,240 --> 03:11:51,600
work for the developers.
That's what that's what I think when I

2250
03:11:49,680 --> 03:11:55,840
see you guys here and I look at you
guys. I think these folks work for the

2251
03:11:54,319 --> 03:12:03,520
developers
because it's so clear in our town code

2252
03:12:00,080 --> 03:12:10,000
that there is a maximum height allowance
of developments in the town of Webster

2253
03:12:06,240 --> 03:12:16,319
for 100 ft. But somehow the town code
doesn't apply to Verizon Wireless.

2254
03:12:13,920 --> 03:12:20,880
And there's a discussion, will more
micro towers

2255
03:12:18,479 --> 03:12:25,439
produce more hardship if they build
micro towers to fulfill the to fill in

2256
03:12:22,880 --> 03:12:28,800
the coverage gap. I don't think that's
the point that the residents are trying

2257
03:12:27,279 --> 03:12:32,880
to make. I think they're saying first of
all, follow the town code as it's

2258
03:12:31,200 --> 03:12:38,160
written, which is really like your
number one job description. Follow the

2259
03:12:35,120 --> 03:12:44,399
town code. Second, fulfill make sure to
diligently fulfill the record, which

2260
03:12:41,040 --> 03:12:49,120
yeah, i.e. go and inspect the press. I
think you're actually required to go and

2261
03:12:45,840 --> 03:12:55,520
inspect the Webster Road Presbyterian
Church site at this point.

2262
03:12:51,680 --> 03:12:59,520
So when you know go and do that, please.
Because if that if that results in less

2263
03:12:57,520 --> 03:13:04,560
hardship,
that's what you

2264
03:13:02,319 --> 03:13:09,840
need to be doing.
The third issue, and I'm just going to

2265
03:13:06,080 --> 03:13:17,439
restate it before closing, is as far as
the 39 foot height variance, we should

2266
03:13:15,200 --> 03:13:22,720
we should
end that argument, end that whole

2267
03:13:19,680 --> 03:13:30,880
discussion right now. Absolutely not.
Because again, our town code says

2268
03:13:26,960 --> 03:13:36,720
100 foot max. So what's the deal? Why
are you having this argument saying the

2269
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:42,960
developers and you guys shouldn't have
to follow our town code? It is so it

2270
03:13:40,479 --> 03:13:47,600
could not be clearer. Follow our town
code.

2271
03:13:45,279 --> 03:13:53,200
And guess what? We're going to have to
change our town code so that cell towers

2272
03:13:51,200 --> 03:13:59,600
cannot be built on residential
properties because that's what caused

2273
03:13:55,520 --> 03:14:06,000
this whole dilemma for these residents
to begin with. For some reason,

2274
03:14:03,840 --> 03:14:11,279
the town code says that the cell towers
can be built on residential properties.

2275
03:14:09,359 --> 03:14:15,439
» Can can you limit your comments to the
application?

2276
03:14:13,439 --> 03:14:18,640
» Sure, John. What's what what what
comment is not relative to the

2277
03:14:18,160 --> 03:14:21,520
application?
>> I'm not answering your questions. I'm

2278
03:14:19,920 --> 03:14:26,560
asking you to limit yours because it's
10 10:10. We can call the meeting rather

2279
03:14:24,640 --> 03:14:29,520
have the public be heard. So just keep
your comments limited to the

2280
03:14:28,160 --> 03:14:32,160
application. It would be helpful.
>> What what comment was not limited to the

2281
03:14:31,600 --> 03:14:35,279
application?
>> Unfortunately, I don't have to answer

2282
03:14:33,680 --> 03:14:37,520
your questions, but I'm just asking if
you would

2283
03:14:35,760 --> 03:14:40,479
» You're answering John. You're answering
a question right now. I didn't ask

2284
03:14:39,120 --> 03:14:44,239
Kevin. Do you have any more comments?
>> Call the next speaker. Did did you guys

2285
03:14:42,720 --> 03:14:46,800
understand what is expected of you
tonight?

2286
03:14:45,279 --> 03:14:48,239
» Kevin, we understand what's expected of
us. Do you have any more comments for

2287
03:14:48,000 --> 03:14:50,880
us?
>> I'll trust that you guys will do the

2288
03:14:49,439 --> 03:14:56,680
right thing. Thank you guys.
>> Um, any any additional comments for

2289
03:14:53,200 --> 03:14:56,680
Webster North?

2290
03:15:01,120 --> 03:15:09,920
» Yeah. My name is Mark Robbins. I'm uh
Barb's husband. I live at 1205

2291
03:15:06,319 --> 03:15:16,479
Wildflower. And I just wanted to uh
clarify something for John. He he uh you

2292
03:15:12,960 --> 03:15:22,960
asked a question earlier about the the
town's um location on Wildflower Drive.

2293
03:15:21,279 --> 03:15:29,680
Um I guess there's a water treatment
plant that was originally considered. Um

2294
03:15:26,880 --> 03:15:35,439
that's only about 250 or so feet away
from what's being proposed now. And it's

2295
03:15:33,200 --> 03:15:40,479
not clear to me and I I would like an
answer specifically why why

2296
03:15:37,735 --> 03:15:44,160
[clears throat] the town rejected that.
I mean, it's their right, you know,

2297
03:15:42,479 --> 03:15:48,800
it's, you know, as was stated
legislatively, but we didn't get an

2298
03:15:46,640 --> 03:15:51,680
answer technically why that was turned
down from that particular site

2299
03:15:50,399 --> 03:15:55,359
initially.
>> So, I just wanted to clarify that it's

2300
03:15:53,279 --> 03:15:58,720
only a few hundred feet away from what's
being proposed.

2301
03:15:56,399 --> 03:16:01,720
» Yeah.
>> So,

2302
03:16:02,000 --> 03:16:08,160
you know, when the town board voted,
they didn't each board member didn't

2303
03:16:06,479 --> 03:16:11,840
have to give his or her reasons,
>> right? My guess is if you went back and

2304
03:16:10,239 --> 03:16:17,439
you looked at the tape, you could
probably surmise, if not individually,

2305
03:16:15,200 --> 03:16:22,000
collectively what what the stated
reasons were. And it and it may very

2306
03:16:20,319 --> 03:16:29,279
well be if you were to call the
individual town board members, at least

2307
03:16:25,920 --> 03:16:34,319
two of which are new, I believe, I don't
believe voted on that. So, three of

2308
03:16:33,040 --> 03:16:37,279
them, if you were to call them and ask
them, they they may tell you. I don't

2309
03:16:35,520 --> 03:16:42,479
know whether they will or not. But the
the reason why I had asked the question

2310
03:16:38,640 --> 03:16:47,359
was if the town considered to revisit
it. And I'm not saying that they're

2311
03:16:44,720 --> 03:16:51,760
interested or not interested, how it
compares with the proposed site. And I

2312
03:16:50,640 --> 03:16:56,239
guess for whatever reason, I was
surprised to learn that apparently the

2313
03:16:53,520 --> 03:17:01,279
proposed site from Verizon standpoint
and coverage and capacity apparently is

2314
03:16:58,960 --> 03:17:05,359
superior. I don't know by how much, if
it's just slight or it's significant to

2315
03:17:03,680 --> 03:17:11,120
what they're uh proposing now,
>> but it is a high

2316
03:17:08,399 --> 03:17:15,359
at this wild flower site. I think there
was a difference of 10 ft, wasn't there?

2317
03:17:13,680 --> 03:17:20,960
» Well, we're going to we're going to
allow we're going to allow the uh

2318
03:17:18,880 --> 03:17:25,520
applicant to come back and answer any of
the questions that that they choose to.

2319
03:17:23,279 --> 03:17:28,520
» Any additional comments for Webster
North?

2320
03:17:29,520 --> 03:17:37,520
So, we'll stick with Webster North. Um
let's see. That's true.

2321
03:17:36,239 --> 03:17:39,840
» Cool.
>> Public on the other.

2322
03:17:38,880 --> 03:17:44,080
» Public on the other.
>> Yeah.

2323
03:17:42,239 --> 03:17:46,319
We can answer.
>> Okay.

2324
03:17:44,960 --> 03:17:51,439
» What are we going to do with Webster
North though? If if you go to Lake Road,

2325
03:17:49,120 --> 03:17:54,319
what you going to make that you're going
to go back and make a determination?

2326
03:17:53,680 --> 03:17:59,680
Then
>> let me ask the board. Does the board

2327
03:17:56,160 --> 03:18:07,520
want to hear comments for
um hear comments for um

2328
03:18:03,840 --> 03:18:08,720
the other uh was it uh Lake Road? Again,
I'm trying to

2329
03:18:08,239 --> 03:18:12,560
» Yeah,
>> get get all all the comments in so we

2330
03:18:10,800 --> 03:18:17,760
can move this along. Is there
>> Let let me make a suggestion.

2331
03:18:15,680 --> 03:18:23,600
» It's 10:15,
I think, out of courteousness to the

2332
03:18:21,359 --> 03:18:29,600
public. Why don't we switch gears and
let the public speak on the other site?

2333
03:18:27,359 --> 03:18:33,760
So, at least if we have to close the
public hearing because of the lateness

2334
03:18:31,120 --> 03:18:38,560
of the hour, we can do that. And
hopefully the applicant will have enough

2335
03:18:35,359 --> 03:18:43,040
time this evening or if not at the next
date to to answer any concerns. But I

2336
03:18:41,520 --> 03:18:49,200
think I don't know if the public wants
to come back again. Um to me it would

2337
03:18:45,920 --> 03:18:53,040
make more sense to let them speak now.
>> I would agree with John.

2338
03:18:51,760 --> 03:18:55,200
I'm good.
>> Okay.

2339
03:18:54,800 --> 03:19:01,200
Hi.
>> Are we okay with that, Josh and Erica?

2340
03:18:57,600 --> 03:19:06,000
» I think in the interest of clarity for
the minutes moving forward, you should

2341
03:19:03,600 --> 03:19:10,560
make a determination to close the public
hearing for the Wildflower Drive and

2342
03:19:08,720 --> 03:19:13,200
then go into the Lake Road.
>> Yeah. To close. Yeah, absolutely.

2343
03:19:12,640 --> 03:19:17,439
» Great.
>> So, um, with that, we're going to close

2344
03:19:15,040 --> 03:19:24,880
the public hearing or public, uh,
session for Webster North. will open up

2345
03:19:21,279 --> 03:19:29,279
uh public comments for Lake Road. So,
does anybody want to speak for or

2346
03:19:26,399 --> 03:19:33,439
against Lake Road? Come on up.
>> Yep.

2347
03:19:32,000 --> 03:19:38,239
» Show of hands of how many people are
going to speak on Lake Road.

2348
03:19:36,239 --> 03:19:39,680
» So, one more one more.
>> Okay.

2349
03:19:38,560 --> 03:19:44,239
» I'm it.
>> Hi, I'm David Rasmmanson. I'm an

2350
03:19:41,200 --> 03:19:48,960
attorney. I'm representing my
daughter-in-law and son, Kelly and

2351
03:19:46,239 --> 03:19:54,000
Daniel Rasmuson. They live at 1890 Lake
Road. Kelly's here in the audience. Um,

2352
03:19:51,840 --> 03:19:58,800
they live at 1890 Lake Road which is
directly across the Lake Road proposed

2353
03:19:56,880 --> 03:20:04,978
facility.
Um, couple comments and I'll I I'll

2354
03:20:02,880 --> 03:20:07,840
recognize the lateness of the hour. Um,
[clears throat]

2355
03:20:05,520 --> 03:20:13,520
the planning board is still deliberating
on this. Council made a comment that has

2356
03:20:09,920 --> 03:20:17,600
been fully vetted and I I don't know
that she intended it, but I think that

2357
03:20:15,120 --> 03:20:22,000
the the insinuation was that it's all
done before the planning board. It is

2358
03:20:19,600 --> 03:20:27,200
not. It is being vetted. It is being
argued. It is still being presented and

2359
03:20:24,319 --> 03:20:31,600
there has been no decision made. So I
would suggest to you that any decision

2360
03:20:29,680 --> 03:20:36,319
by this board at this point would be
premature and unless and until the

2361
03:20:33,279 --> 03:20:41,600
planning board makes some makes some uh
deliberation or some decision on it or

2362
03:20:38,960 --> 03:20:45,920
if you were to make a decision that you
would do so conditioned upon what the

2363
03:20:43,680 --> 03:20:49,680
planning port may or may not do. I
certainly wouldn't want anything

2364
03:20:47,680 --> 03:20:54,960
prejuditial to happen here with respect
to the planning board's uh deliberate

2365
03:20:52,000 --> 03:21:00,160
deliberative process. [clears throat]
Now, one of the tests that council and I

2366
03:20:58,000 --> 03:21:06,000
agree with her that they have to meet is
that the project as proposed must have a

2367
03:21:03,279 --> 03:21:08,960
minimal intrusion intrusion on the
community.

2368
03:21:07,520 --> 03:21:14,080
They haven't they haven't even addressed
that. They are so far from being being

2369
03:21:11,680 --> 03:21:19,439
able to establish minimal intrusion on
this site. This site has the maximum

2370
03:21:16,640 --> 03:21:23,359
intrusion. It's out in the open. It's
out there for the whole neighborhood to

2371
03:21:21,040 --> 03:21:29,359
see. There are no trees, no buffering,
no nothing on it. Plus, it's situated

2372
03:21:26,800 --> 03:21:34,800
right on the corner of the on the
National Scenic Byway, the Great Wake Se

2373
03:21:31,840 --> 03:21:40,479
Scenic Trail. It is a National Scenic
Highway, and this is going to be built

2374
03:21:36,800 --> 03:21:44,160
right on it. Now, the scenic byway is
administered by the New York State

2375
03:21:42,080 --> 03:21:48,080
Department of Transportation. I've
spoken to them. I've given the

2376
03:21:45,840 --> 03:21:52,479
information to Mr. Artus and I and I
believe he has reached out to DOT.

2377
03:21:50,239 --> 03:21:56,479
They're concerned about it. They have
concerns about this being on the

2378
03:21:54,080 --> 03:22:02,080
National Scenic Byway.
Also, when there's an intrusion on an

2379
03:21:59,040 --> 03:22:08,160
aesthetic resource such as this, the
National Scenic Byway is defined as an

2380
03:22:04,160 --> 03:22:13,279
aesthetic resource. The DEEC strongly
recommends that any the deliberative

2381
03:22:10,080 --> 03:22:17,920
process include a visual impact study
that's very detailed to minimize the

2382
03:22:15,439 --> 03:22:21,760
visual impact of the project. That
hasn't been done as far as I know. The

2383
03:22:19,920 --> 03:22:26,080
lead agency in the secret process would
take responsibility for that and I think

2384
03:22:23,600 --> 03:22:31,920
it should be done here.
Finally, I think windmill farms controls

2385
03:22:29,200 --> 03:22:37,040
this search area. I think more inquiry
needs needs to be made in into what

2386
03:22:34,160 --> 03:22:40,800
availability they have. They've cited a
conservation easement. I've researched

2387
03:22:39,040 --> 03:22:46,160
the conservation easement. It doesn't
preclude this use. It could be taken out

2388
03:22:44,000 --> 03:22:50,560
of the conservation easement and and
this use could be put farther back on

2389
03:22:48,000 --> 03:22:55,200
the property. So, I think a lot more due
diligence needs to be done on this

2390
03:22:52,399 --> 03:23:00,040
search area. So, with that, I'll close
my comments for tonight. Thank you.

2391
03:22:56,800 --> 03:23:00,040
» Thank you.

2392
03:23:08,960 --> 03:23:16,160
My name is Bob Jansen. I live on County
Line Road directly across from where

2393
03:23:13,120 --> 03:23:23,120
this is going to be. If you could find
the picture, I think it's either 140 or

2394
03:23:19,760 --> 03:23:31,160
125 in the pages. Um, give you a sense
of what I'll be looking at. Um, it is a

2395
03:23:26,560 --> 03:23:31,160
visual intrusion. Um,

2396
03:23:32,479 --> 03:23:38,520
» keep going. Oops.
>> This says Webster North.

2397
03:23:39,439 --> 03:23:50,479
» Is that Oh, yeah. I need a Lake Road.
Anyway, um

2398
03:23:46,720 --> 03:23:54,960
in 1996, 30 years ago, um the Federal
Communications Commission um had

2399
03:23:53,120 --> 03:23:59,520
hearings and came up with
recommendations

2400
03:23:56,560 --> 03:24:06,000
um on cell phone cell tower uh
placement. Um their recommendation 30

2401
03:24:02,160 --> 03:24:12,399
years ago was 1,600 ft from a residence.
My house will be about 300 325. Uh the

2402
03:24:09,920 --> 03:24:17,600
Rasmusen's probably about the same um
given where they're going to locate this

2403
03:24:13,760 --> 03:24:22,720
thing right at the corner. Um the issue
of coverage, um I have the exact

2404
03:24:20,640 --> 03:24:27,359
difference from what your coverage is.
I've got Verizon telling me I don't have

2405
03:24:24,720 --> 03:24:31,520
coverage and I have coverage every day.
I use my phone all day long. I was out

2406
03:24:29,600 --> 03:24:36,560
on my mower all afternoon, got
headphones on, Wi-Fi, and I'm listening

2407
03:24:33,760 --> 03:24:42,239
to music off Verizon. I'm a Verizon
customer. So I I I don't understand and

2408
03:24:40,560 --> 03:24:46,080
my neighbors tell me they use their
phones, they work from home, they're

2409
03:24:43,920 --> 03:24:50,560
getting coverage all day long. So the
idea that there's no coverage is kind of

2410
03:24:48,239 --> 03:24:56,160
specious. More importantly, if you look
at the maps they've got, um

2411
03:24:54,000 --> 03:25:01,040
you look at their marketing map, they
tell everybody that wants to buy

2412
03:24:57,680 --> 03:25:08,239
Verizon, we got great coverage. 5G, I'm
sitting in Vi 5G and 4G is all the area

2413
03:25:05,200 --> 03:25:13,040
south and east of me. all of in Ontario,
the other side of County Line Road from

2414
03:25:10,640 --> 03:25:17,600
where this tower is going to be. And if
we look around, we've got a tower on

2415
03:25:15,040 --> 03:25:22,239
Dean's Parkway. Milk Plants's got a
tower. Bolter's got a tower. There's

2416
03:25:19,760 --> 03:25:26,479
four Mile Creek's got a tower. Gana's
got a tower.

2417
03:25:24,399 --> 03:25:32,319
If they build a tower at the corner of
Lake Road, 50% of the coverage for that

2418
03:25:29,120 --> 03:25:35,520
tower is Lake Ontario. Not many people
out there. there. I realized it from

2419
03:25:33,600 --> 03:25:42,399
Boers probably needed maybe an
emergency, but the reality is 60 maybe

2420
03:25:39,279 --> 03:25:48,800
more percent is south and east of where
the maps show that that what they want

2421
03:25:46,000 --> 03:25:53,359
to call a dead zone. But it can't have
it both ways. You either have coverage

2422
03:25:50,960 --> 03:25:59,600
and the maps they market with and sell
with say fine, we got all the coverage

2423
03:25:56,160 --> 03:26:04,800
you need to buy the coverage and it's oh
well you don't have coverage there. And

2424
03:26:02,160 --> 03:26:11,439
I think it's time to get that straight.
I I'm not quite untechical, but I don't

2425
03:26:08,880 --> 03:26:16,399
know low m low band, mid-band, and I
doubt that any of you do really

2426
03:26:12,880 --> 03:26:21,120
understand it either. Um, I was out in
my yard. I have five acres. I'm

2427
03:26:19,279 --> 03:26:26,399
surrounded by trees, a lot of them dead
ash, but I've got a lot of huge

2428
03:26:23,680 --> 03:26:32,080
cottonwood trees, big ones, tall ones.
And I never lost coverage once. I can

2429
03:26:29,840 --> 03:26:36,399
drive around in my car all the time out
there and I can have all the coverage I

2430
03:26:34,080 --> 03:26:40,399
want. I think the argument that there's
no coverage and it's maxed out and it's

2431
03:26:38,560 --> 03:26:45,439
not available
just and I understand there's been a

2432
03:26:42,640 --> 03:26:50,399
study done looked at Verizon's data.
Well, if you're looking at their data,

2433
03:26:48,239 --> 03:26:56,160
what do you expect to find? You're going
to find them saying this is the problem.

2434
03:26:53,680 --> 03:27:01,760
And I'm not saying they're lying, but
I'm not saying either that it's true. I

2435
03:26:58,720 --> 03:27:07,680
think there needs to be an actual
coverage done and check it. Take their

2436
03:27:05,040 --> 03:27:12,880
word for it. That's fine. But I think
they did it by having all the equipment.

2437
03:27:10,640 --> 03:27:17,760
Let's get someone to do it and show with
real equipment. Yes, they're absolutely

2438
03:27:14,960 --> 03:27:22,960
right. But I can tell you I use my phone
all the time. My neighbors do. They all

2439
03:27:20,239 --> 03:27:28,319
tell me they use good coverage. And
something's wrong. I don't know who to

2440
03:27:25,359 --> 03:27:34,960
believe, but it's not Verizon.
Thank you. Does anybody want to speak

2441
03:27:31,040 --> 03:27:41,840
for or against uh Lake Road?
And with that, we're going to uh close

2442
03:27:36,880 --> 03:27:47,120
the public um public portion of of this.
Um

2443
03:27:44,720 --> 03:27:49,040
do have a question, Steve. Right. Is
that

2444
03:27:48,319 --> 03:27:52,479
» Mr. Jensen?
>> Mr. J. Mr. Jensen. John, it's Johnson.

2445
03:27:52,000 --> 03:27:57,279
Sorry.
>> Johnson.

2446
03:27:54,800 --> 03:28:01,760
Um
you mentioned earlier when you were just

2447
03:27:59,120 --> 03:28:06,640
when you were talking that you know
Verizon if Verizon kept with the 100

2448
03:28:04,239 --> 03:28:12,479
foot towers uh they'd have to put more
in basically to hit the same coverage.

2449
03:28:10,399 --> 03:28:17,279
I know I'm pretty sure we weren't you
weren't asked to study how many more

2450
03:28:14,239 --> 03:28:22,000
towers but you've done this a long time.
If you were to throw a dart at at a

2451
03:28:19,680 --> 03:28:29,040
wall, how many more towers would be
necessary to to make the same coverage?

2452
03:28:26,800 --> 03:28:36,399
Again, it it's a guess and I understand
that, but how many more towers?

2453
03:28:32,000 --> 03:28:39,680
» Yeah. So, so uh one of the u things that
has been done when they have to densify

2454
03:28:38,239 --> 03:28:42,399
and this is for any of the carriers,
right? If they have one particular

2455
03:28:40,960 --> 03:28:46,880
tower, what they would do is lower the
height of that tower and put six more

2456
03:28:44,960 --> 03:28:50,319
around the periphery.
>> Okay.

2457
03:28:47,279 --> 03:28:53,760
» So, you know, lack lacking
>> specifics

2458
03:28:50,960 --> 03:28:57,840
» information, right, that that probably
we would take one tower and make it into

2459
03:28:55,920 --> 03:29:06,399
uh seven.
>> Gotcha. So, so with that right from a

2460
03:29:00,399 --> 03:29:15,760
from an impact um h one could argue
one tower at 139 ft is less impactful

2461
03:29:10,479 --> 03:29:20,239
than seven towers at 100 ft. So okay
>> and there would be also I mean keep keep

2462
03:29:17,840 --> 03:29:24,319
in mind there's a cost uh implication
here too which you know something you

2463
03:29:22,479 --> 03:29:27,840
need to consider because there there
they are a public utility and there is

2464
03:29:26,560 --> 03:29:32,160
case law from the New York court of
appeals that uh speaks to those kind of

2465
03:29:30,239 --> 03:29:37,040
issues. It was it was about a nuclear
power station that was never built uh

2466
03:29:34,239 --> 03:29:41,760
but a municipality wanted to do some
improvements uh to that particular uh

2467
03:29:39,600 --> 03:29:45,840
power station. It increased the cost to
I think 20% more than what it was being

2468
03:29:44,479 --> 03:29:50,479
proposed. New York Court of Appeals
struck that down. Uh the site was never

2469
03:29:48,080 --> 03:29:55,680
built. Okay. But that's probably the
closest we have to uh you know something

2470
03:29:53,439 --> 03:30:00,720
dealing with a public utility and the
increased cost. Would a 5% increase be

2471
03:29:59,200 --> 03:30:03,120
reasonable? I don't really know the
answer to that question. That's all

2472
03:30:01,840 --> 03:30:06,560
speculation.
>> Okay.

2473
03:30:04,160 --> 03:30:11,279
» Mr. Johnson, the I want to go back to
the Verizon data for a minute.

2474
03:30:08,319 --> 03:30:18,720
» Sure. Have you ever
I think you may have spoke in your first

2475
03:30:14,000 --> 03:30:23,040
presentation about that that there's
a trust factor.

2476
03:30:20,880 --> 03:30:27,439
Have you ever had occasion to request
the data

2477
03:30:24,960 --> 03:30:32,160
that would
address the figures that they're showing

2478
03:30:29,600 --> 03:30:36,560
in the exhibits?
>> Uh I in this particular case you mean

2479
03:30:34,640 --> 03:30:40,160
» no ever in your 30 years that you've
been doing this?

2480
03:30:37,040 --> 03:30:45,439
» Well Oh yeah. So, so the present
individuals were not involved in a case

2481
03:30:42,000 --> 03:30:49,279
that goes back probably 20 years ago. Uh
there was a site that was being proposed

2482
03:30:47,120 --> 03:30:55,680
in the town of Lockport out to the west
of here. Uh was a huge uh tower. If I

2483
03:30:53,200 --> 03:31:04,000
remember right, it was about 150 ft 180
ft uh tall. and uh the propagation plots

2484
03:30:59,520 --> 03:31:08,960
that were supplied were not uh uh
convincing me that actually that was

2485
03:31:06,319 --> 03:31:13,680
what was was needed. And I pushed back
on that quite a bit and it was an

2486
03:31:12,080 --> 03:31:18,000
attorney who was representing the site
from from out of the area and a

2487
03:31:16,239 --> 03:31:24,319
different RF engineer than who was
involved here. And um I got a phone call

2488
03:31:21,040 --> 03:31:28,160
one day from uh one of the other RF
engineers that said he was taking over

2489
03:31:25,840 --> 03:31:32,160
that site. And I asked him, you know,
what what had happened? Why why are you,

2490
03:31:30,239 --> 03:31:36,000
you know, swapping in and uh things? He
said, "Let's let's just leave it at the

2491
03:31:33,520 --> 03:31:39,840
fact that I'm I I'm on the case now."
And he sent me some propagation plots.

2492
03:31:37,920 --> 03:31:44,560
And I, if I'm going to remember, it was
like 120 ft, maybe 110 ft, uh, was what

2493
03:31:43,120 --> 03:31:47,920
they were going to propose because that
would actually accomplish the

2494
03:31:46,399 --> 03:31:52,000
» Well, my my question is,
>> yeah,

2495
03:31:49,520 --> 03:31:56,160
» have you made that request in other
cases that you Okay.

2496
03:31:54,000 --> 03:32:00,479
» Yes. Yes. And have the carriers readily
provided them to you?

2497
03:31:59,120 --> 03:32:04,399
» Forget about the word readily for a
minute. Have they been provided to you?

2498
03:32:02,560 --> 03:32:07,760
» Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so particularly
Verizon.

2499
03:32:05,200 --> 03:32:12,160
» Okay. But but in this case, you did not
request them.

2500
03:32:10,239 --> 03:32:16,720
» I I I'm trying to understand what data
you're referring to. You you're you're

2501
03:32:13,520 --> 03:32:20,720
talking about for lower height analysis.
No, the data that

2502
03:32:19,600 --> 03:32:25,520
uh
>> capacity

2503
03:32:21,439 --> 03:32:29,600
» the capacity and the coverage data
>> that that was the information that was

2504
03:32:27,040 --> 03:32:35,040
provided in the application materials.
>> So I I'm trying to address the the last

2505
03:32:33,120 --> 03:32:36,560
gentleman that was opposed.
>> Oh, okay.

2506
03:32:36,160 --> 03:32:39,439
» Okay.
>> Okay.

2507
03:32:37,520 --> 03:32:42,880
» And we talked earlier about data that
you were relying on that you didn't have

2508
03:32:41,520 --> 03:32:44,080
visibility to.
>> Okay.

2509
03:32:43,439 --> 03:32:47,200
» Right.
>> Yeah.

2510
03:32:44,479 --> 03:32:51,279
» Which data is that?
Okay, that that would be the coverage.

2511
03:32:49,600 --> 03:32:58,160
So, we're talking about Lake Road with
that particular comment. Uh my report uh

2512
03:32:54,479 --> 03:33:04,880
said that there is ubiquitous coverage
of 700 megahertz. That's low band. Uh

2513
03:33:01,520 --> 03:33:08,880
but at times capacity for the number of
users that are trying to use that

2514
03:33:06,479 --> 03:33:12,960
particular spectrum is being exceeded.
And he so he so right now he'd be

2515
03:33:10,880 --> 03:33:17,840
drawing signal off of one of the
adjacent towers. when you're listening

2516
03:33:15,200 --> 03:33:23,279
to music, uh there's a buffering that
occurs, right? Is that when the system

2517
03:33:19,920 --> 03:33:27,680
is available to do it, it will download,
you know, ahead of where you're actually

2518
03:33:25,040 --> 03:33:31,439
listening. And then when there's a drop,
the buffering actually starts to catch

2519
03:33:29,840 --> 03:33:36,160
up with the point where the phone has
stopped downloading that information,

2520
03:33:33,359 --> 03:33:40,960
but the music keeps playing. But during
that period of time, it can re-buffer

2521
03:33:38,479 --> 03:33:45,279
when the system becomes available, and
it'll buffer some more a little bit

2522
03:33:43,040 --> 03:33:49,200
further out. So from a user's point of
view, it may not be at all apparent that

2523
03:33:47,760 --> 03:33:52,479
the connection was dropped for a
substantial period of time.

2524
03:33:50,640 --> 03:33:56,399
» Was there any data that you needed from
Verizon that you would have liked to

2525
03:33:53,920 --> 03:33:59,200
have had but didn't receive or has not
have that asked for?

2526
03:33:57,359 --> 03:34:02,399
» No, that no, the information that was
provided in the application is what we

2527
03:34:00,800 --> 03:34:06,319
typically asked for. We asked for
cleaner plots because we wanted to be

2528
03:34:04,720 --> 03:34:10,800
able to read the captioning. We wanted
to actually see what the uh numerical

2529
03:34:08,720 --> 03:34:15,680
information was and they provided
cleaner plots of those of those data but

2530
03:34:13,279 --> 03:34:22,640
it wasn't different data.
>> Substantive data that Verizon relied

2531
03:34:19,200 --> 03:34:26,880
upon for their conclusions that you
verified

2532
03:34:24,239 --> 03:34:29,840
you were not without any of the
underpinning data if you will the native

2533
03:34:29,200 --> 03:34:31,760
data
>> correct

2534
03:34:30,319 --> 03:34:34,479
» upon which the conclusions were.
>> Yeah. We don't we don't have the raw

2535
03:34:32,960 --> 03:34:37,359
data because that's what comes from the
switch. But that raw data is plotted on

2536
03:34:36,560 --> 03:34:43,359
those plots.
>> But but also that data that was provided

2537
03:34:40,560 --> 03:34:49,760
to you, there was no red flags that you
saw in that data as you did 20 years ago

2538
03:34:47,200 --> 03:34:52,080
with that other other project.
>> That's correct.

2539
03:34:50,560 --> 03:34:56,160
» I think that's what you were you were
asking, right? So, so you didn't need to

2540
03:34:53,920 --> 03:35:00,560
ask Verizon for any additional
information because the information that

2541
03:34:57,840 --> 03:35:05,600
you had, you were able to verify at
least the one site which gave you a

2542
03:35:02,560 --> 03:35:11,120
comfort level for both sites.
>> Uh, correct, correct, correct. Although,

2543
03:35:08,399 --> 03:35:15,200
you know, I I have to add this that uh
we didn't try to generate that empirical

2544
03:35:14,000 --> 03:35:20,000
data to compare it to,
>> right? We're looking at the information.

2545
03:35:17,040 --> 03:35:25,120
When you have saturated sites, and this
is a very typical scenario on a lot of

2546
03:35:23,040 --> 03:35:29,279
locations, when you have saturated
sites, you start to see those key

2547
03:35:26,880 --> 03:35:35,600
performance indicators start to ramp up
and start to either go over or or

2548
03:35:32,720 --> 03:35:40,399
substantially go over the 100% mark.
>> Yeah. And you were able to verify that

2549
03:35:37,600 --> 03:35:44,720
against the opensignal.com, which is a
open

2550
03:35:42,399 --> 03:35:47,439
readily available data as well. That's
that that's right.

2551
03:35:45,600 --> 03:35:49,680
» At least for the one site. I think the
other site you weren't able to is what

2552
03:35:48,720 --> 03:35:53,279
you mentioned,
>> right? Because because again that those

2553
03:35:51,520 --> 03:35:59,200
are sample points. I mean when you do
crowdsource data uh you're calling a lot

2554
03:35:56,319 --> 03:36:03,279
of information from a lot of users uh to
try to establish okay what's the typical

2555
03:36:01,279 --> 03:36:08,640
statistical performance of the system in
that area. Uh we couldn't see the type

2556
03:36:07,040 --> 03:36:14,160
of information we'd have liked to see
for for lake road from open signal.

2557
03:36:11,600 --> 03:36:19,840
However, when I looked at open signals
information for uh Webster North, uh

2558
03:36:17,840 --> 03:36:25,040
there was almost a match.
>> Understood. When you uh one of the

2559
03:36:22,720 --> 03:36:32,720
criteria that [clears throat] uh one of
the neighbors spoke about as well as um

2560
03:36:27,840 --> 03:36:37,920
Miss Smith, this um minimal intrusion
does is that part of your expertise or

2561
03:36:35,840 --> 03:36:42,080
is it not?
That's an aesthetic uh judgment that has

2562
03:36:40,399 --> 03:36:46,960
to be made by the planning board.
>> That's why I'm asking that question. So,

2563
03:36:43,439 --> 03:36:51,760
it's it's it's a lay person's Well,
>> it's not necessarily your Bailey Wick.

2564
03:36:49,920 --> 03:36:55,120
» Correct. Correct. Because my my my
perception of minimal intrusion might be

2565
03:36:53,600 --> 03:36:58,239
I want to have really great cell
service.

2566
03:36:55,600 --> 03:37:02,239
» Well, I think minimal intrusion it's
two-tiered. there's minimal intrusion in

2567
03:37:00,880 --> 03:37:07,120
the area where that's lacking the
capacity and the coverage and then

2568
03:37:04,000 --> 03:37:11,359
there's a second tier at the actual site
that was determined to be minimally

2569
03:37:08,560 --> 03:37:13,520
intrusive how minimally intrusive it is
what they're putting up.

2570
03:37:12,479 --> 03:37:18,160
» Sure.
>> And but on on the first tier that is in

2571
03:37:15,760 --> 03:37:22,560
your wheelhouse, right?
>> Yeah. If if if there is a need for

2572
03:37:20,399 --> 03:37:27,840
actually wireless services, so that
would be the establishment of a

2573
03:37:24,800 --> 03:37:30,319
significant uh coverage or service gap
in the area. That's that's what

2574
03:37:29,279 --> 03:37:37,920
Professor Cheryl
>> did you opine that out of and I I forget

2575
03:37:34,399 --> 03:37:44,000
what Miss Smith said for um for each
location how many there were to choose

2576
03:37:40,239 --> 03:37:48,960
from, but you're opining that the sites
that were here for tonight were the most

2577
03:37:46,640 --> 03:37:53,040
minimally intrusive of
>> Oh, you're not. No, [clears throat]

2578
03:37:51,359 --> 03:37:57,120
no. That this according to the
application materials of all the sites

2579
03:37:55,279 --> 03:38:04,479
that Verizon looked at, there was only
one that was viable either technically

2580
03:38:00,560 --> 03:38:08,000
uh or landowner uh agreement. Right? So,
we pushed them on that particular point.

2581
03:38:06,080 --> 03:38:13,279
In fact, in our first report, we noted
that uh the boards were being presented

2582
03:38:10,640 --> 03:38:15,760
with only one option that there were no
other options. And when you're talking

2583
03:38:14,720 --> 03:38:18,880
about something being [clears throat]
minimally intrusive, I mean, the

2584
03:38:17,359 --> 03:38:21,520
implication is you're comparing it to
something

2585
03:38:21,600 --> 03:38:27,840
Right? And there's nothing else to be
comparing it to because that was the

2586
03:38:25,279 --> 03:38:31,840
only site that was available. Now it
comes the question is the minimally

2587
03:38:29,600 --> 03:38:35,920
intrusive height
is that the minimum height for

2588
03:38:33,680 --> 03:38:39,800
performance? So we looked at that and we
gave you a finding on that.

2589
03:38:40,720 --> 03:38:43,720
Okay.

2590
03:38:45,359 --> 03:38:50,399
» I have a followup question but I'll ask
Miss Smith. Okay.

2591
03:38:49,680 --> 03:38:53,960
Thank you.
>> Okay. You're welcome.

2592
03:39:01,359 --> 03:39:06,720
» So, could could I just follow up on this
minimally truth? You probably have a

2593
03:39:04,560 --> 03:39:09,040
list that you want to go and respond to,
I'm assuming.

2594
03:39:07,359 --> 03:39:12,479
» I'll I'll I'm happy to start with your
questions.

2595
03:39:09,600 --> 03:39:16,239
» Okay.
And I could be easily the densest one in

2596
03:39:14,560 --> 03:39:21,040
the room here, so forgive me.
>> I'm sure that's not true.

2597
03:39:18,239 --> 03:39:24,720
We did find out that cell phone service
>> I've never I've never dropped a call. It

2598
03:39:22,640 --> 03:39:29,880
goes right through my my ears.
>> The on the minimally intrusive

2599
03:39:31,200 --> 03:39:40,120
following up on what Mr. Johnson just
said, if there was a site

2600
03:39:36,160 --> 03:39:40,120
where you couldn't get a lease,

2601
03:39:41,040 --> 03:39:46,520
maybe you didn't want to pay what the
land owner wanted.

2602
03:39:47,680 --> 03:39:55,840
Is it is a takeaway possibly that that
site

2603
03:39:52,640 --> 03:40:00,600
could have been less intrusive but for
Verizon's unwillingness to pay a price?

2604
03:40:01,520 --> 03:40:05,840
» I don't know if I did a good job with
that question.

2605
03:40:04,000 --> 03:40:11,920
» No. And I, you know, I I think I'll
note, you know, we [clears throat]

2606
03:40:09,120 --> 03:40:16,080
we have gone through that exercise and
and maybe I'll say it differently,

2607
03:40:13,279 --> 03:40:22,720
right? I I think there's no disagreement
that being on the tree line in the back

2608
03:40:19,040 --> 03:40:28,000
of the farm would be less intrusive than
the site that's being proposed. Right.

2609
03:40:24,800 --> 03:40:32,000
So there there is, you know, I I don't
believe that we take issue with that of

2610
03:40:29,439 --> 03:40:38,560
of having the tower so that it abuts the
tree line um would be a better position

2611
03:40:35,760 --> 03:40:42,399
for it to be in. And and candidly, we
don't want a controversial site, right?

2612
03:40:40,640 --> 03:40:46,000
we would love to go where it is easier
to build.

2613
03:40:43,520 --> 03:40:49,439
» Um, but the landlord declined and said
we couldn't go there for farming

2614
03:40:47,760 --> 03:40:54,000
operations or conservation easement
operations. So, you know, from Verizon's

2615
03:40:51,680 --> 03:40:58,560
perspective, we want to be in easy
sites. We want to be in sites that are

2616
03:40:56,399 --> 03:41:03,120
easy for a planning board to say yes to
or easy for a ZBAH to say yes to. You're

2617
03:41:01,680 --> 03:41:09,120
you're indicating though that on the
Windmill farm site

2618
03:41:06,560 --> 03:41:15,200
the undesirable
piece of it or or or the it was blocked

2619
03:41:12,640 --> 03:41:18,720
because of other reasons not dollars and
cents. It was a conservation easement or

2620
03:41:17,120 --> 03:41:24,880
some other reason
>> correct and and candidly what the reason

2621
03:41:21,600 --> 03:41:29,439
is we have to defer to the landlord. So
I'm using right we we have more

2622
03:41:26,960 --> 03:41:33,520
reasoning on the windmill farms. Let me
ask you the question this way.

2623
03:41:31,040 --> 03:41:38,080
» Were there other sites where you you
weren't deferring to the landlord, but

2624
03:41:35,439 --> 03:41:42,319
Verizon was making a business decision.
I don't want to we don't want to pay X.

2625
03:41:40,160 --> 03:41:47,040
The land owner wants too much.
>> So, there is in in the record there is a

2626
03:41:45,200 --> 03:41:54,640
site selection analysis that goes
through the re the reason why those

2627
03:41:51,279 --> 03:41:58,319
choices declined to lease with us. Often
they don't want to engage in lease

2628
03:41:56,479 --> 03:42:02,479
negotiations. There are there are
instances where they never respond when

2629
03:42:00,399 --> 03:42:09,920
you knock on the door and and leave a
card and send a certified mail. So it's

2630
03:42:05,439 --> 03:42:14,239
they are for a variety of reasons that
are not just

2631
03:42:11,200 --> 03:42:19,920
» and were there reasons in this selection
process where

2632
03:42:16,399 --> 03:42:24,399
Verizon chose not to negotiate based
upon

2633
03:42:21,760 --> 03:42:29,600
terms.
I would I don't want to misspeak.

2634
03:42:27,439 --> 03:42:34,160
It is set forth in the record. My my
understanding is no. There were only

2635
03:42:31,600 --> 03:42:39,760
instances that either I'm I'm saying
that in a negative way.

2636
03:42:37,120 --> 03:42:45,120
Either the landlords did not respond or
did not engage in negotiations with

2637
03:42:42,080 --> 03:42:48,479
Verizon. They said no in this particular
instance.

2638
03:42:45,600 --> 03:42:54,520
» Last question on this issue.
when when you talk in terms of

2639
03:42:55,920 --> 03:43:06,319
of case law,
Verizon or a utility reserves the right

2640
03:43:04,399 --> 03:43:12,479
that even though a location might be
less intrusive,

2641
03:43:09,040 --> 03:43:16,880
they reserve the ability to not be
required at that location based upon the

2642
03:43:14,479 --> 03:43:19,520
three criteria that you gave us if they
feel they're paying

2643
03:43:20,880 --> 03:43:32,160
a price they don't want to pay.
>> There is very strong case law that a a

2644
03:43:29,520 --> 03:43:37,439
telecommunications provider
does not have to pay above market rates

2645
03:43:35,439 --> 03:43:42,479
or something that does not make the
business case work. Whether it's a lease

2646
03:43:40,160 --> 03:43:47,760
a a length of lease term that's not
acceptable. Um if it's a rent that's

2647
03:43:45,359 --> 03:43:53,199
above market. So yes, there is strong
case law that says and and

2648
03:43:51,120 --> 03:43:57,040
I'm saying this to be transparent, not
not in a negative way, but a

2649
03:43:55,515 --> 03:44:00,720
[clears throat] a zoning board can't
dictate business terms that a

2650
03:43:58,560 --> 03:44:03,279
telecomunications provider goes with.
>> You're representing to the best of your

2651
03:44:02,399 --> 03:44:07,439
knowledge in this case.
>> Correct. Yes.

2652
03:44:04,160 --> 03:44:13,120
» There wasn't a le a more minimally
intrusive location

2653
03:44:10,000 --> 03:44:14,399
» that Verizon turned away from. Cor
>> because

2654
03:44:13,920 --> 03:44:19,199
» correct
>> it was greater than market rate.

2655
03:44:16,640 --> 03:44:23,120
» Correct. But I do have our site
selection specialist that can talk about

2656
03:44:22,000 --> 03:44:26,160
the site selection.
>> Yeah. I and again I'm not trying to

2657
03:44:24,560 --> 03:44:32,399
invite more information than we need.
It's late. I I just as I understand this

2658
03:44:30,479 --> 03:44:37,435
more refined. I just wanted to see
whether

2659
03:44:33,760 --> 03:44:42,080
» Yes. I Nico Facy for the record. Um
[clears throat] I have the unfortunate

2660
03:44:38,960 --> 03:44:45,520
job of trying to find sites. I think
what you're trying to ask was there

2661
03:44:43,600 --> 03:44:49,760
another, you know, landlord interested
but wasn't able to get a deal because of

2662
03:44:47,840 --> 03:44:56,080
a because of finances. The short answer
is no. The farm is the only interested

2663
03:44:53,359 --> 03:45:01,600
party. Um, and we we contact people the
same way. Everyone is the same. Knock on

2664
03:44:59,359 --> 03:45:06,399
the doors. We leave letters in their
mailboxes. We send certified mail. Um,

2665
03:45:04,239 --> 03:45:09,840
people who aren't interested, they just
most times they don't contact you.

2666
03:45:08,399 --> 03:45:13,760
People who have some interest, they'll
call you. they'll try to solicit more

2667
03:45:11,760 --> 03:45:17,920
information. Um, and then the ones that
are interested, they'll call you right

2668
03:45:15,520 --> 03:45:23,199
back and say, "Hey, let's talk about
this." But in this case, the only

2669
03:45:20,479 --> 03:45:26,960
interested party was the windmill farms.
So, the short answer is no. There was no

2670
03:45:25,040 --> 03:45:30,080
one else that was interested and we
couldn't get a deal done because of

2671
03:45:28,239 --> 03:45:37,199
finances.
What happens in an area? Say you have 10

2672
03:45:34,399 --> 03:45:42,800
lots or land that you want to go look
at. Everybody turns Verizon down. How do

2673
03:45:40,720 --> 03:45:47,120
you start back at square one?
>> We just don't stop. The problem doesn't

2674
03:45:45,279 --> 03:45:51,439
go away because we don't find a location
right away. And you know, case in point,

2675
03:45:49,359 --> 03:45:55,040
Webster North has been around for we've
been trying to solve it for we've been

2676
03:45:53,279 --> 03:45:58,399
working with the town for three years.
So because the problem exists, it's not

2677
03:45:57,279 --> 03:46:02,640
going to go away. Okay. So Verizon kind
of has to fix it. So

2678
03:46:00,800 --> 03:46:07,359
short answer is we we have to stay you
know we go back we try again know maybe

2679
03:46:05,840 --> 03:46:12,399
you know somebody sells their property
you have a new owner someone you know

2680
03:46:09,840 --> 03:46:17,120
may be interested at a later time. So
some sites take longer but we it just

2681
03:46:15,359 --> 03:46:21,120
don't problem doesn't go away doesn't
solve itself. So we have to kind of stay

2682
03:46:18,640 --> 03:46:27,600
on the case until we can find something.
>> Quick so quick question. Um, looking at

2683
03:46:23,600 --> 03:46:33,120
the graphic up on the uh screen, the
circle represents the ideal location.

2684
03:46:30,880 --> 03:46:38,160
Somewhere inside that red circle
represents the ideal location for the

2685
03:46:36,720 --> 03:46:43,520
cell tower. Is that correct?
>> Correct.

2686
03:46:38,960 --> 03:46:47,680
» Okay. So, to um one of the residents
that came up uh speaking about the

2687
03:46:45,439 --> 03:46:52,720
Presbyterian Church, the Presbyterian
Church site was outside of that red

2688
03:46:50,080 --> 03:46:55,600
circle. So it was not in an ideal
location for the Verizon tower.

2689
03:46:55,199 --> 03:47:00,640
» Um,
>> correct. So the church is outside and we

2690
03:46:59,279 --> 03:47:04,640
actually, like I said, because we've
been working on the site for so long for

2691
03:47:02,720 --> 03:47:09,520
Webster specifically, we looked at
multiple locations outside of the search

2692
03:47:07,040 --> 03:47:13,600
area, which we typically do not do. But
that church was vetted by our RF

2693
03:47:11,600 --> 03:47:18,960
engineer and it simply doesn't work.
It's it's way too far outside the area.

2694
03:47:16,880 --> 03:47:22,399
» Okay.
>> This does not represent

2695
03:47:20,720 --> 03:47:26,479
No, this one does not. No, I understand
that. But when the graphic was up here,

2696
03:47:24,560 --> 03:47:32,319
I took a look to see where the
Presbyterian Church was in relation to

2697
03:47:28,560 --> 03:47:39,199
that circle and it didn't that circle
didn't cross 250. So,

2698
03:47:36,399 --> 03:47:45,040
I have a question regarding uh the
conservation area. Did you [sighs] I

2699
03:47:42,640 --> 03:47:50,239
don't know if this gentleman that spoke
a while ago said that you can build a a

2700
03:47:47,840 --> 03:47:54,319
a cell tower in a conservation area. I
don't know whether that's true or not.

2701
03:47:51,760 --> 03:48:00,487
I'm basing it on what he just said and I
don't know if you know if that's true or

2702
03:47:55,680 --> 03:48:03,880
not. But if I'm thinking that if
[clears throat] the farmer

2703
03:48:03,920 --> 03:48:10,960
is of the opinion that he can't do
anything with that because it's a

2704
03:48:07,520 --> 03:48:14,960
conservation area. I'm wondering
if if he's cor if this gentleman over

2705
03:48:12,960 --> 03:48:18,239
here is correct.
Could we have a discussion? Is it

2706
03:48:16,560 --> 03:48:21,680
possible to have a discussion because it
everybody seems to have admitted that

2707
03:48:20,000 --> 03:48:27,120
the conservation area would be a better
location for the tower.

2708
03:48:24,239 --> 03:48:33,760
Uh what I can say is the the landlord
has come in and actually met with the

2709
03:48:29,600 --> 03:48:39,199
board um regarding his entire property.
So I mean Verizon can't force him to put

2710
03:48:36,319 --> 03:48:45,439
us in a location, right? We're leasing a
small area of his property and where we

2711
03:48:42,800 --> 03:48:48,800
are is the only area that he has
available for lease.

2712
03:48:47,439 --> 03:48:53,359
» But I'm not I don't think I'm making
myself clear. I I think if I'm

2713
03:48:51,840 --> 03:48:58,560
understanding this correct, he may not
think that he can lease

2714
03:48:56,479 --> 03:49:02,720
the uh lease a piece of that
conservation area to because it is in

2715
03:49:00,560 --> 03:49:08,080
fact a conservation area.
>> So that he has told us no based on and

2716
03:49:06,000 --> 03:49:11,760
we have a supplemental lettering
>> as well. So we've already asked him

2717
03:49:10,160 --> 03:49:15,560
multiple times about that area and he
said [clears throat] no.

2718
03:49:18,560 --> 03:49:28,000
» Okay. If I can also speak to the minimal
intrus intrusion

2719
03:49:24,319 --> 03:49:35,520
um exhibit K of the lake I know we're
like bouncing around. Exhibit K of the

2720
03:49:30,239 --> 03:49:41,680
Lake Road um application
in in no way do I want to to minimize

2721
03:49:38,319 --> 03:49:46,239
the testimony that you heard. Um but I I
do want to note that the area that this

2722
03:49:43,840 --> 03:49:50,960
is located does have a significant
amount of electrical utilities. um

2723
03:49:48,640 --> 03:49:54,399
transversing the area. So this is not
you know I I guess I also don't want to

2724
03:49:52,560 --> 03:49:58,399
give the impression of there is nothing
on this parcel but for the cell phone

2725
03:49:56,319 --> 03:50:05,359
tower that's about to be there. There
are other utilities that are located on

2726
03:50:00,640 --> 03:50:12,399
this site and that is part of the
the the the viewshed when one is driving

2727
03:50:08,239 --> 03:50:17,439
down Lake Road. So it's it's not um it's
not uncluttered. It is a cluttered area

2728
03:50:14,640 --> 03:50:23,120
that a cell phone tower will also go in
to the extent of you know landscaping

2729
03:50:20,399 --> 03:50:30,000
around the base to hide the equipment
that is done routinely. Um but you know

2730
03:50:26,720 --> 03:50:34,479
when looking at these various sites I do
just want to raise that note of it's

2731
03:50:32,319 --> 03:50:38,800
it's not a completely empty field and
the cell phone tower is the only thing

2732
03:50:36,000 --> 03:50:43,680
that will be in it. There are other
utilities and electrical lines that that

2733
03:50:41,520 --> 03:50:49,760
are in that viewshed. it it will be the
only thing that is over 100 ft taller.

2734
03:50:47,439 --> 03:50:53,920
» Very no. Very very true. Right. I I just
don't to to have the impression of

2735
03:50:52,160 --> 03:50:56,720
there's nothing there and there will be
something there.

2736
03:50:55,120 --> 03:50:59,840
» I mean it's typical telephone poles that
are are there currently right. Yes.

2737
03:50:58,399 --> 03:51:03,680
Yeah. No certain transformers and things
of that nature. It's not

2738
03:51:02,239 --> 03:51:08,399
» Yeah.
>> 125 ft but it is

2739
03:51:06,880 --> 03:51:11,199
» there are other there is other
infrastructure that's located on this

2740
03:51:10,000 --> 03:51:14,880
parcel.
>> Okay.

2741
03:51:12,560 --> 03:51:21,760
Um,
>> it's a 7.8 acre plot. It's at the very

2742
03:51:19,439 --> 03:51:28,479
end of the farm. It's leased out every
year to another farmer for planting.

2743
03:51:25,840 --> 03:51:32,160
Worst comes to worst. And I didn't get a
chance to show you the picture that I'll

2744
03:51:30,160 --> 03:51:38,000
be looking at.
Talk about intrusion.

2745
03:51:34,720 --> 03:51:43,840
This tower could easily be moved south
100 150 200 feet more where it doesn't

2746
03:51:41,600 --> 03:51:50,000
sit right next to the road doesn't
intrude exactly in our

2747
03:51:47,279 --> 03:51:53,760
125 ft it's going to be an ice
>> how friendly are you with the farmer can

2748
03:51:51,600 --> 03:51:59,565
you convince them? Uh, no. [laughter]
And I can tell you, well, I won't

2749
03:51:56,800 --> 03:52:03,520
because I can't back it up with that.
[laughter] There's there's a desire by

2750
03:52:01,279 --> 03:52:08,080
members of the farm to not have to look
at that tower. Well, that's they dumped

2751
03:52:06,239 --> 03:52:12,479
it off to us.
>> And from the minimal intrusion issue,

2752
03:52:10,800 --> 03:52:17,279
the real estate hit to the people who
live right next to that tower is

2753
03:52:14,399 --> 03:52:22,560
estimated to run from 10 to 30% of the
value of their property. In my case,

2754
03:52:19,920 --> 03:52:28,000
that's 50 to $150,000
when I go to sell my home. So, there is

2755
03:52:25,680 --> 03:52:35,199
a maximum intrusion. It's going to
affect all the values. One developer has

2756
03:52:31,199 --> 03:52:40,720
already lost one sale of the development
that's trying to do on Lake Brook right

2757
03:52:37,600 --> 03:52:44,239
across the street. Um there's a lot of
impact here. isn't just that we don't

2758
03:52:42,800 --> 03:52:49,600
want to tell
>> and and it's that's what we're trying to

2759
03:52:47,199 --> 03:52:54,960
we're trying to weigh and I I appreciate
the comments.

2760
03:52:51,199 --> 03:52:58,160
» Um other questions from the board. I
don't mean to cut you off but obviously

2761
03:52:57,199 --> 03:53:01,040
I mean it
>> it's late.

2762
03:52:58,720 --> 03:53:05,279
» It's late right? Um
>> can I just say something? My name is

2763
03:53:03,120 --> 03:53:09,279
Kathy Pomponio and I'm the project
manager.

2764
03:53:07,600 --> 03:53:15,920
We've been through this conservation
easement issue with the planning board.

2765
03:53:12,880 --> 03:53:20,239
We have taken the planning board's
comments about the conservation easement

2766
03:53:18,399 --> 03:53:27,040
which was
very extensively explained in a letter

2767
03:53:22,640 --> 03:53:34,160
to that board. Um we have taken that and
met again with the property owner on

2768
03:53:30,399 --> 03:53:40,960
site to try to see if there was any way
that we could move that tower.

2769
03:53:36,640 --> 03:53:45,600
We have gone above and beyond. We have
taken the property owner to meet in a

2770
03:53:43,760 --> 03:53:52,560
work session with the chairman of the
planning board, the town supervisor

2771
03:53:49,439 --> 03:53:58,960
um in Verizon, and he has extensively
explained why he cannot put this tower

2772
03:53:56,160 --> 03:54:04,960
on any other portion of his property. We
have tried. We have tried multiple

2773
03:54:01,600 --> 03:54:09,760
times. It is not a financial issue.
There are things that you cannot see

2774
03:54:07,040 --> 03:54:14,800
that are in the ground related to
irrigation

2775
03:54:11,279 --> 03:54:20,880
that prevent this from going anywhere
else. We have extensively exhausted that

2776
03:54:18,720 --> 03:54:25,680
conservation easement.
Um, our attorneys have looked at it. We

2777
03:54:23,359 --> 03:54:30,960
have spoken extensively with all of the
parties about it. Um, and obviously we

2778
03:54:28,880 --> 03:54:36,880
wouldn't be here for either one of these
facilities if it wasn't necessary.

2779
03:54:34,720 --> 03:54:40,640
Verizon doesn't expend the capital on
something that isn't necessary.

2780
03:54:39,760 --> 03:54:42,319
» Appreciate that.
>> You recognize we have a job to do,

2781
03:54:42,080 --> 03:54:45,680
right?
>> I I I completely understand and I

2782
03:54:44,319 --> 03:54:50,399
understand your questions, but I wanted
you to understand that we have already

2783
03:54:48,319 --> 03:54:55,359
met with the town,
>> right? But it it it sounds as though

2784
03:54:53,840 --> 03:54:59,120
» I don't know if you appreciate we have a
job to do. I I do understand your job.

2785
03:54:57,359 --> 03:55:02,720
» We're an independent board from the town
board and the planning board. So, we're

2786
03:55:00,960 --> 03:55:06,319
performing our due diligence.
>> And I just wanted to add to that. I

2787
03:55:04,399 --> 03:55:12,399
wanted you to know that's I wanted you
to know how extensively we have

2788
03:55:09,199 --> 03:55:16,560
researched that conservation easement.
>> Do you mind? I mean,

2789
03:55:14,319 --> 03:55:22,960
» can you summarize
the reasons why the conservation

2790
03:55:20,560 --> 03:55:26,800
easement area is not
>> It's all explained in that letter.

2791
03:55:24,800 --> 03:55:33,399
There's a letter. I don't have it in
front of me.

2792
03:55:29,199 --> 03:55:33,399
» It's all explained in the letter.

2793
03:55:35,040 --> 03:55:40,960
» Was that supplied to this board? Was
that letter supplied to this board?

2794
03:55:38,399 --> 03:55:46,720
» Yeah, I don't believe so.
>> Yes, it's exhibit T of the application,

2795
03:55:43,680 --> 03:55:53,520
the supplemental materials that was
>> um dated March 31st.

2796
03:55:49,279 --> 03:55:56,000
» So, that's the letter from the landlord.
>> It's

2797
03:55:56,160 --> 03:56:03,040
And even after that letter came out, we
went and met with him.

2798
03:56:00,720 --> 03:56:05,680
» We brought him to the work session so
that he could explain

2799
03:56:04,000 --> 03:56:11,840
» for this board. Can you summarize just
quickly summarize?

2800
03:56:06,880 --> 03:56:15,120
» Oh, go ahead. I have it.
>> I'm I'm wary of I'm wary of doing so

2801
03:56:13,920 --> 03:56:20,319
because I don't want to misspeak what
the conservation ement says, but the the

2802
03:56:18,000 --> 03:56:26,000
crux of the letter is
>> there's infrastructure in the ground.

2803
03:56:22,239 --> 03:56:30,000
There are farm operations that they
renting right leasing to us. They will

2804
03:56:28,479 --> 03:56:33,279
never lease to us in an area that will
impede their farming operations. That's

2805
03:56:31,760 --> 03:56:38,960
their going concern.
>> They also have um conservation easements

2806
03:56:36,560 --> 03:56:44,080
I believe both with the USDA and then
also with private companies that they

2807
03:56:42,319 --> 03:56:48,319
contract with. I think they mentioned
KURG Dr. Pepper is one of the entities

2808
03:56:46,399 --> 03:56:51,840
that they contract with and they have to
abide by

2809
03:56:50,479 --> 03:56:57,439
certain standards and certain
procedures. So by them allowing the

2810
03:56:53,760 --> 03:57:01,439
tower on their their contract with that
entity essentially is broken and then

2811
03:56:59,680 --> 03:57:03,600
they would lose that
>> what whatever the correct benefit of

2812
03:57:03,120 --> 03:57:10,080
that is
>> and and to the extent of could that be

2813
03:57:07,040 --> 03:57:16,000
amended is there ways around it you know
I I don't want to speak to that but I I

2814
03:57:12,239 --> 03:57:20,880
can't imagine leasing to Verizon
they would make that business decision

2815
03:57:18,000 --> 03:57:26,239
versus Kirk Dr. pepper or you know a 100
by 100 foot lease area versus Kur Dr.

2816
03:57:24,000 --> 03:57:30,720
Pepper or the conservation easement. So
I I guess I I wouldn't want the

2817
03:57:28,479 --> 03:57:35,680
impression of
>> they can't break the conservation

2818
03:57:33,199 --> 03:57:39,040
easement or it is in such a way that it
can't be interpreted one way or the

2819
03:57:38,080 --> 03:57:41,199
other but
>> they're not willing to.

2820
03:57:40,000 --> 03:57:44,239
» I couldn't imagine a business right
there's no business case for that. So

2821
03:57:43,040 --> 03:57:47,920
» regardless they're not willing to.
>> Yeah, exactly.

2822
03:57:44,960 --> 03:57:52,720
» Okay. Thank you. I yeah, we don't have
to get any further into it unless

2823
03:57:49,279 --> 03:57:56,319
anybody on the board wants to. Okay.
>> Um

2824
03:57:53,520 --> 03:58:01,040
» I think Miss Smith had something she
wanted to address.

2825
03:57:58,640 --> 03:58:05,279
» I think candidly the one I had was the
550 Webster, but I believe that Nico

2826
03:58:04,080 --> 03:58:10,720
tied that up nicely.
>> Okay. I do have a question regarding uh

2827
03:58:08,000 --> 03:58:15,600
Webster North. The trees. Uh there was a
question of how many trees are

2828
03:58:13,760 --> 03:58:21,600
potentially going to be cut down to
accommodate the cell cell site.

2829
03:58:18,560 --> 03:58:26,640
» So where is located and it's on the site
plan which I think is Q to the big

2830
03:58:25,120 --> 03:58:29,640
application.
Um

2831
03:58:30,604 --> 03:58:36,319
[clears throat] there it it was chosen
on the site there's a clearing on the

2832
03:58:34,640 --> 03:58:39,359
site. So it was chosen on the site to
really minimize the tree clearing. It

2833
03:58:38,479 --> 03:58:42,399
was uh
>> there's only a handful

2834
03:58:40,560 --> 03:58:47,680
» site. Yes, thank you. Cited in such a
way and the goal is not to cut down

2835
03:58:44,880 --> 03:58:53,199
trees. That is uh the goal is to to
preserve the trees. It's an candidly an

2836
03:58:50,560 --> 03:58:56,640
additional expense to to remove trees.
So the goal of the construction is

2837
03:58:54,800 --> 03:58:58,720
always to make as little impact as
possible.

2838
03:58:57,359 --> 03:59:00,239
» That was that was it. Right.
>> Back up.

2839
03:58:59,120 --> 03:59:04,160
» Back up. Right there.
>> Thank you.

2840
03:59:01,840 --> 03:59:05,840
» Okay. Yeah. And looking at the aerial
that that area is

2841
03:59:05,439 --> 03:59:11,199
» Yeah.
>> Fairly open. We did meet out on site

2842
03:59:08,560 --> 03:59:14,239
with your environmental specialists,
>> the con the conservation board.

2843
03:59:12,800 --> 03:59:17,680
» Conservation board. We did meet with
Okay.

2844
03:59:14,880 --> 03:59:22,560
» in the rain that day. Um and we did mark
the trees that there's just minimal

2845
03:59:21,040 --> 03:59:25,680
» Can you speak into the mic? Sorry.
>> I'm sorry.

2846
03:59:22,960 --> 03:59:29,359
» It wasn't being picked up.
>> So, we did meet out with your

2847
03:59:27,040 --> 03:59:35,600
conservation board on a very rainy
evening in the spring. Um and we marked

2848
03:59:33,760 --> 03:59:41,640
the trees that were to be removed. There
were a handful. Not very many at all.

2849
03:59:38,640 --> 03:59:41,640
» Okay.

2850
03:59:43,760 --> 03:59:54,080
Um, other question I have is the scenic
byway. Um, I don't know what kind of

2851
03:59:50,640 --> 03:59:58,560
impact that has with New York State. Um,
I'm assuming,

2852
03:59:56,560 --> 04:00:04,000
uh, some due diligence has happened by
Verizon. Uh, can you explain that?

2853
04:00:01,600 --> 04:00:09,279
» Yes. And we actually we do provide the
visual addendum that's put out by the

2854
04:00:06,319 --> 04:00:13,359
DEEC. Um
trying to see my tile straight.

2855
04:00:11,680 --> 04:00:16,560
» Yeah. Sorry bouncing bouncing all over
on you on on the two sites.

2856
04:00:14,960 --> 04:00:21,520
» Oh, it feels like it's a pop quiz. It's
like oh yeah, I have the answer to that

2857
04:00:17,760 --> 04:00:27,920
one. Um so in the seeker form, which is
exhibit H to the environmental

2858
04:00:23,439 --> 04:00:31,040
assessment form, we do supply a visual
addendum,

2859
04:00:28,720 --> 04:00:34,160
» different site. Erica, you're on uh
Webster North. You got to go to Lake

2860
04:00:33,040 --> 04:00:38,399
Road.
>> The Lake Road application, the one that

2861
04:00:36,560 --> 04:00:40,319
we have on the drive is not the full
drive, so I can't pull that up right

2862
04:00:40,000 --> 04:00:43,199
now.
>> Okay.

2863
04:00:41,199 --> 04:00:48,080
» All right.
So, it is so the visual addendum that

2864
04:00:45,199 --> 04:00:53,760
that was referenced that is provided. It
is noted as being near the the byway,

2865
04:00:51,840 --> 04:00:59,040
but there is other infrastructure that's
in the byway um and would be part of the

2866
04:00:56,880 --> 04:01:03,120
secret determination, which is is there
potential for significant adverse

2867
04:01:00,800 --> 04:01:09,680
environmental impact on a protected
viewshed and for the small portion and

2868
04:01:07,520 --> 04:01:14,319
and again I'm not minimizing the impact
felt by the neighbors but to the small

2869
04:01:11,359 --> 04:01:18,479
portion of the national byway of having
one of very many cell phone towers. The

2870
04:01:16,399 --> 04:01:22,800
Gana Tower is also visible from there
are many towers that are visible from

2871
04:01:20,560 --> 04:01:27,520
» the byway. It is the byway that it is
one of the areas we're trying to serve.

2872
04:01:24,800 --> 04:01:32,399
Um you know from from the visual
addendum to me the only logical

2873
04:01:30,399 --> 04:01:36,960
conclusion would be there is not the
potential for significant adverse

2874
04:01:34,319 --> 04:01:39,359
environmental impact to that shed. But
that is something that would be

2875
04:01:37,920 --> 04:01:44,399
considered as part of the secret
determination. Well, also when you're

2876
04:01:41,279 --> 04:01:52,000
considering a byway, it's because it's a
sequential thing. It's not a site.

2877
04:01:48,319 --> 04:01:55,199
» It's generally a roadway, Route 66. Yep.
>> Or the Seaway Trail where it's

2878
04:01:54,000 --> 04:02:00,560
sequential.
>> And if you're traveling at it at 55

2879
04:01:58,000 --> 04:02:03,840
miles an hour, there's a lot different
visual impact than if you're living

2880
04:02:02,479 --> 04:02:07,439
across the street from it.
>> For sure. So that's that's the um

2881
04:02:06,757 --> 04:02:13,279
[snorts]
the basis for when you determine

2882
04:02:09,920 --> 04:02:16,720
something in a byway, not necessarily if
you stop and look at it. It's what's the

2883
04:02:15,520 --> 04:02:23,760
impact as you're going with the speed
limit up and down the road.

2884
04:02:19,760 --> 04:02:28,800
» So um I asked uh
I think uh doc is it Dr. Johnson um

2885
04:02:27,279 --> 04:02:35,840
regarding
um aesthetic improvements. Um, right.

2886
04:02:32,640 --> 04:02:39,920
So, being out in an open field, uh, is
there

2887
04:02:38,080 --> 04:02:46,319
screening, whether it be vegetative
screening or other types of screening

2888
04:02:41,920 --> 04:02:53,439
that would be utilized to help improve
uh, visual impacts, uh, specifically for

2889
04:02:51,439 --> 04:02:58,000
Lake Road because Web North is going to
be [clears throat]

2890
04:02:54,800 --> 04:03:07,680
» surrounded by by vegetation. Um but is
there anything being provided for visual

2891
04:03:03,120 --> 04:03:11,760
impact support for uh Lake Road?
>> Certainly having vegetative screening

2892
04:03:10,000 --> 04:03:16,479
around the equipment base as you
correctly pointed out we we can't screen

2893
04:03:14,319 --> 04:03:22,080
right the the entire tower but it is
very common to put landscaping around

2894
04:03:19,120 --> 04:03:26,319
the equipment location. um there it will
be screened by a fence but then

2895
04:03:24,000 --> 04:03:31,359
additional vegetation arborites can be
planted on the exterior of the fence to

2896
04:03:29,040 --> 04:03:34,640
help even further mitigate that that
visual impact. So certainly that's

2897
04:03:32,960 --> 04:03:41,199
something that is is done with
regularity. Um I'm I don't I can't point

2898
04:03:38,640 --> 04:03:46,080
you exactly whether it is proposed here,
but could be a condition of an approval

2899
04:03:43,840 --> 04:03:51,199
uh to have that screening put in as a
vegetative um vegetative screening

2900
04:03:49,760 --> 04:03:58,720
around the equipment.
>> Thank you. Um,

2901
04:03:54,720 --> 04:04:05,279
I heard that having the uh uh this the
stealth tower, if you will, which you

2902
04:04:00,880 --> 04:04:13,680
know, you see 120 foot tower with uh
sparsely uh placed branches uh sticks

2903
04:04:10,560 --> 04:04:20,160
out like a saw thumb, but so does a uh
gray tower. Um,

2904
04:04:17,279 --> 04:04:27,760
I don't know the answer to this other
than So, I'm going to ask it. Do does

2905
04:04:23,920 --> 04:04:33,680
color help with
um cell tower

2906
04:04:30,640 --> 04:04:38,160
um aesthetics, if you will, as you're
driving by on a byway.

2907
04:04:35,920 --> 04:04:44,239
» Better question is, is there a way to
camouflage the tower itself via paint?

2908
04:04:42,000 --> 04:04:50,000
» Thank you. So, as a Rochester native,
I'm sad to say this, but the gray sky

2909
04:04:46,479 --> 04:04:55,120
actually is is the camouflage. It is it
it does typically um blend into our our

2910
04:04:53,040 --> 04:04:59,439
gray sky. So, the galvanized that color
is chosen to to blend in with the with

2911
04:04:58,399 --> 04:05:03,279
the gray sky.
>> Okay.

2912
04:04:59,840 --> 04:05:06,880
» Um I I don't I can't think of a color
that would be less

2913
04:05:05,359 --> 04:05:10,000
» intrusive than that. And of course, at
night time it

2914
04:05:07,840 --> 04:05:14,319
» you wouldn't see it. It's not lit. It's
not over 200 ft. Um, I think from and I

2915
04:05:12,800 --> 04:05:18,319
I think Kathy's going to speak to this.
You know, from a from a stealthing

2916
04:05:16,080 --> 04:05:24,160
perspective, I think I think I know
Kathy's heard every choice or question

2917
04:05:21,439 --> 04:05:30,479
under the sun. It is difficult to
identify a structure that is actually

2918
04:05:26,880 --> 04:05:35,520
stealththed and then the added weight of
a of the tree

2919
04:05:32,960 --> 04:05:41,199
infrastructure makes it bulkier.
>> Okay. Well, you have to understand too

2920
04:05:37,840 --> 04:05:44,399
that if you're talking about a tree, you
can't you're actually going to put 10

2921
04:05:42,960 --> 04:05:49,359
feet more onto [clears throat] the
height of the tower because you have to

2922
04:05:46,720 --> 04:05:54,160
make the tree look realistic with a cone
above the antennas. So, you're adding 10

2923
04:05:52,319 --> 04:06:00,800
feet to the top of the structure
automatically. And that's a pretty tall

2924
04:05:56,960 --> 04:06:05,760
tree to begin with. Um, so that's it
doesn't really, I don't think, jive with

2925
04:06:03,279 --> 04:06:09,760
with what you're trying to accomplish.
Stealththing is very specific to the

2926
04:06:07,600 --> 04:06:14,640
situation. It only works in certain
instances.

2927
04:06:11,520 --> 04:06:21,040
» Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. It's now 11:00
p.m. So, I'm

2928
04:06:19,040 --> 04:06:25,359
requesting that the board, if the board
doesn't feel comfortable making a

2929
04:06:22,640 --> 04:06:33,680
decision tonight that we table this
until the next meeting, um, at this

2930
04:06:28,880 --> 04:06:38,960
point, the questions are
repeating. So

2931
04:06:37,279 --> 04:06:44,399
if no decision, if the board's not
comfortable, I request that we table

2932
04:06:42,399 --> 04:06:48,080
until next month's meeting.
>> So I I guess um

2933
04:06:47,520 --> 04:06:54,000
» so let
>> Thank you.

2934
04:06:49,760 --> 04:07:00,560
» I'll ask the board if they have um any
additional questions first. Um at this

2935
04:06:57,520 --> 04:07:05,040
point, the public public session is
closed. Um,

2936
04:07:03,439 --> 04:07:13,120
does the board have any additional
questions that they want to ask tonight?

2937
04:07:09,120 --> 04:07:17,760
» I'm good for tonight, but I I I there's
a lot more that needs to be discussed.

2938
04:07:15,600 --> 04:07:21,439
» Okay. So, you have more more discussion
that you want to go through then, Chris?

2939
04:07:19,199 --> 04:07:24,960
» There there might be more to help me
make a better decision. Okay. I for one

2940
04:07:23,760 --> 04:07:29,760
would like to know what the planning
board is, what planning board changes

2941
04:07:27,680 --> 04:07:34,000
might be occurring to the site which
might impact any decision we make

2942
04:07:32,239 --> 04:07:39,600
tonight if we were to vote on it.
>> Okay.

2943
04:07:35,840 --> 04:07:44,560
Does anybody else have other um may I
guess ultimately

2944
04:07:41,760 --> 04:07:47,920
most of my questions have been answered.
Um

2945
04:07:46,080 --> 04:07:53,760
are there does the board have other
questions that they want to ask? If so,

2946
04:07:50,640 --> 04:08:00,760
then I would agree that we should table
the the remaining portion of this till

2947
04:07:56,960 --> 04:08:00,760
uh till the next meeting.

2948
04:08:01,680 --> 04:08:06,239
» I'd like it tabled only because of what
Chris just said. I'd like to hear what

2949
04:08:05,040 --> 04:08:08,000
the planning board
>> Okay.

2950
04:08:06,640 --> 04:08:13,680
» has to say about it.
>> So, if I haven't closed I think I've

2951
04:08:11,120 --> 04:08:20,000
closed both. I have closed both. So,
public hearing uh public uh comment has

2952
04:08:16,319 --> 04:08:27,920
been closed on both. Um we are going to
table this until uh next month's uh so

2953
04:08:25,359 --> 04:08:36,640
se October's meeting.
>> Um so can I uh I make a motion to table

2954
04:08:33,439 --> 04:08:41,359
» the Verizon cell tower uh Lake Road and
Verizon Cell Tower Webster North until

2955
04:08:39,840 --> 04:08:42,479
October 14th.
>> Second.

2956
04:08:41,680 --> 04:08:47,920
» Second.
>> All those in favor? Hi.

2957
04:08:44,560 --> 04:08:51,920
» This so-called shot clock is it was it
150 days?

2958
04:08:49,120 --> 04:08:57,760
» It is 150 days. We have extended if
you'll note our application. One of them

2959
04:08:53,760 --> 04:09:03,840
is January. Uh we we have extended until
I believe after the town board meeting

2960
04:09:00,160 --> 04:09:07,680
in October with the expectation of
returning to the planning board meeting

2961
04:09:05,439 --> 04:09:12,800
and then perhaps the ZBA meeting for
this. Um we also need a a special permit

2962
04:09:10,319 --> 04:09:18,479
from the town board. So you've been
tracking.

2963
04:09:13,520 --> 04:09:22,399
» So zoning board is October 14th.
>> The town board is likely

2964
04:09:20,880 --> 04:09:26,880
» October 6th
>> in the the second I'm sorry. The second

2965
04:09:24,640 --> 04:09:30,319
town board meeting of the month is what
we

2966
04:09:28,399 --> 04:09:32,399
» September
>> second.

2967
04:09:30,720 --> 04:09:36,080
» I'm sorry. You're right. You're speaking
of the planning board. Yes. The planning

2968
04:09:33,840 --> 04:09:42,880
board would be the Tuesday before the
ZBA meeting. We have agreed to extend

2969
04:09:39,120 --> 04:09:49,840
the shot clock to after the second town
board meeting of the month in October.

2970
04:09:45,760 --> 04:09:53,600
But but do request and and we'll note um
we expressed this at the planning board

2971
04:09:51,600 --> 04:09:58,560
of
the the FCC and the the

2972
04:09:55,760 --> 04:10:02,720
Telecommunications Act of 1996 is put
into place because this is a difficult

2973
04:10:00,960 --> 04:10:09,600
choice, right? It's put into place
because this is a controversial topic.

2974
04:10:06,000 --> 04:10:13,600
But Congress and the and and through the
rules promulgated by the FCC, the goal

2975
04:10:11,760 --> 04:10:17,760
of the Telecommunications Act was to
encourage rapid deployment of

2976
04:10:15,120 --> 04:10:23,439
telecommunications facilities across the
country. So it we have things like

2977
04:10:20,080 --> 04:10:29,359
preeemption for um RF effects of health
or perceived effects perceived health

2978
04:10:26,720 --> 04:10:33,680
effects of RF on health. um that's been
fully preempted because that is an area

2979
04:10:31,199 --> 04:10:37,359
that the telecommunic that Congress and
the FCC have identified as this is

2980
04:10:35,680 --> 04:10:40,960
something that is universal across the
country and something that cannot

2981
04:10:39,439 --> 04:10:44,479
» be addressed. So the shot clock is one
of those items of

2982
04:10:42,880 --> 04:10:50,319
» you have the authority as the applicant
to um stay extended.

2983
04:10:47,920 --> 04:10:55,520
We we do have the authority and we have
done so. But the note being we are

2984
04:10:53,439 --> 04:11:01,199
appreciative of the town continuing to
move through this process and and

2985
04:10:58,000 --> 04:11:03,359
request it continues at a a good clip as
this has been.

2986
04:11:01,840 --> 04:11:06,880
» The the applicant believes the town's
acting in good faith at this point.

2987
04:11:04,640 --> 04:11:10,560
» Yes. Of course. Yes. Yes.
>> Okay.

2988
04:11:08,960 --> 04:11:13,760
» Thank you. We'll see you next time.
>> I appreciate your time. Thank you for

2989
04:11:11,920 --> 04:11:17,840
letting me go past 10.
>> Okay. Yep.

2990
04:11:16,080 --> 04:11:24,080
Um,
do we need to look at the minutes?

2991
04:11:22,319 --> 04:11:26,720
» So, this is being tabled
>> till October 14th.

2992
04:11:25,680 --> 04:11:29,520
» Okay. Everybody
>> and we voted on that.

2993
04:11:28,319 --> 04:11:31,920
» Yes, that's been voted on.
>> All right.

2994
04:11:31,373 --> 04:11:35,120
[cough and clears throat]
>> Minutes.

2995
04:11:33,040 --> 04:11:39,279
» All right. I have minutes for the August
11th zoning board meeting.

2996
04:11:37,600 --> 04:11:40,800
» Has everyone had an opportunity to
review those?

2997
04:11:40,399 --> 04:11:43,199
» Yes.
>> Then I'll make a motion to approve them.

2998
04:11:42,800 --> 04:11:45,359
» Second.
>> Second.

2999
04:11:43,600 --> 04:11:47,520
» All those in favor? I
>> have a good motion there.

3000
04:11:46,720 --> 04:11:52,080
» Thanks for sticking around.
>> Okay, with that I make a motion to

3001
04:11:50,479 --> 04:11:56,479
uh end our meeting.
>> Second.

3002
04:11:54,560 --> 04:12:00,359
» Thank you.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it.