1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,640
Could all stand and

2
00:00:01,640 --> 00:00:03,920
recite the pledge of allegiance.

3
00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:06,520
>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the

4
00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:08,840
United States of America and to the

5
00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,040
republic for which it stands, one nation

6
00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:15,040
under God, indivisible, with liberty and

7
00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,150
justice for all.

8
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:20,520
» Katie Glenn.

9
00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,840
>> Present.

10
00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:24,480
>> Amanda Miller.

11
00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:25,360
Josh Fador.

12
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,160
>> Present.

13
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:27,040
>> Jim Hurst.

14
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:27,840
>> Present.

15
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:28,680
>> Josh Martin.

16
00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:29,360
>> Present.

17
00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,440
>> Four present, we have a quorum.

18
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,520
Okay, and before I jump into the

19
00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,200
agenda, I see a number of people in the

20
00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,440
audience.

21
00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,480
Uh if you wish to speak tonight, we ask

22
00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:41,360
that you sign up. If you haven't signed

23
00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:43,200
up, I can make these papers available to

24
00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,040
you again, but if you would please do so

25
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,600
here in the next few moments.

26
00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:58,990
Um

27
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,920
Uh next item on the agenda is the

28
00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,040
approval of the April 6th uh

29
00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,120
meeting minutes.

30
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,040
Any changes to the minutes or can I have

31
00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,480
a motion to approve it?

32
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:11,800
>> So moved.

33
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:12,920
>> A second?

34
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,240
>> I'll second.

35
00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:15,440
>> All in favor?

36
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,910
>> I.

37
00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:21,600
» Uh there are no continuances or

38
00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:23,520
withdrawal requests. There is no new

39
00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,160
Excuse me, no continued business.

40
00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,200
So we are on to new business. I will

41
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,480
call

42
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:30,120
uh

43
00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,360
docket 202604

44
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,320
uh DSV

45
00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:36,840
uh development standards variance

46
00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,640
pursuant to exhibit five development

47
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,280
standards matrix to encroach into the

48
00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,320
rear yard setback for the construction

49
00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:46,560
of a patio on lot V4 in section nine of

50
00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:49,160
the Holiday Farms PUD.

51
00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,480
Uh Mr. Smith, are you taking this?

52
00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:52,840
>> Yes, sir.

53
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:53,760
Uh

54
00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:55,320
so yeah, you summarized the project.

55
00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,720
This is in the Holiday Farms PUD.

56
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,640
Uh the petitioner

57
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:02,760
uh on this particular lot there is a

58
00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,000
50-ft rear yard uh platted building

59
00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:07,600
line.

60
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,679
Um which is unique.

61
00:02:10,679 --> 00:02:12,320
The petitioner is requesting, if you

62
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,800
look at the site plan,

63
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,240
uh he is requesting to encroach 3 ft

64
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,720
um into the 50-ft building setback line.

65
00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,040
Uh it's 3 ft by 22 ft, which is a total

66
00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,400
of 66 sq ft. If the petitioner which

67
00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,040
wishes to move forward with his project,

68
00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:32,959
um the variance either needs to be

69
00:02:32,959 --> 00:02:35,880
granted or he'll have to remove that

70
00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,360
portion of his patio.

71
00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,480
Um and I've provided on page four

72
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280
of the staff report, you can see um two

73
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,320
pictures. One is the recorded plat. I've

74
00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:50,880
highlighted, you'll see the 50-ft

75
00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:52,720
building setback line.

76
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,880
Um and you'll note the second picture is

77
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,600
the site plan that was submitted, and

78
00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,200
you'll see the patio as it relates to

79
00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,680
that 50-ft setback line, the 3-ft

80
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,560
encroachment, uh the 22 ft in width.

81
00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,310
The

82
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,040
standards for unnecessary hard or for uh

83
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:14,440
the granting of a development standard

84
00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:15,880
variance, there's three standards. One,

85
00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,000
the grant will not be injurious to

86
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,560
public health and safety.

87
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,840
Two, the granting of this request will

88
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,640
not have an adverse impact in the use or

89
00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:26,120
value of adjacent properties. And three,

90
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:27,600
uh strict application of the zoning

91
00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:28,920
ordinance will result in unnecessary

92
00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:30,840
hardship. Uh just to read staff's

93
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,920
position for the record, um item one,

94
00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:35,080
the grant will not be injurious to

95
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,440
public health and safety. Staff, uh we

96
00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,239
agree with the petitioner, uh except for

97
00:03:39,239 --> 00:03:41,440
the rear yard setback, the proposal

98
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,120
meets all other applicable development

99
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,720
standards, uh and it still provides a 47

100
00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,560
rear yard setback, which is

101
00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:49,320
significantly larger than all other

102
00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,080
residential rear yard setback

103
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,120
requirements in our zoning ordinance.

104
00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:55,840
Uh it does not encroach into the 30-ft

105
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,880
or 35-ft drainage easement or the 15-ft

106
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,440
green belt. Um and you can see that on

107
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,600
the uh again on page four of the

108
00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,120
recorded plat. Additionally, as part of

109
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,640
the approval process, the petitioner is

110
00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,760
required to receive approval of uh what

111
00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:12,640
we call an IOP, an improvement location

112
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,240
permit, from the town um and approval

113
00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,519
from their HOA prior to construction,

114
00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:19,359
both of which are intended to ensure the

115
00:04:19,359 --> 00:04:21,200
project is not injurious to public

116
00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,480
health and safety.

117
00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,440
Uh public noticing was also completed

118
00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,160
and at the time of this writing, we were

119
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,160
not aware and did not receive any

120
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,600
concerns or complaints from the public.

121
00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:33,160
Uh so for this reason or for these

122
00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:34,960
reasons, we believe this criteria was

123
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:36,400
met.

124
00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,760
Item number two, uh the use or value of

125
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,080
the area adjacent uh to the property

126
00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:42,360
included in this variance will not be

127
00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:43,919
affected in a substantially adverse

128
00:04:43,919 --> 00:04:46,240
manner. Uh once again, staff agrees with

129
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,040
the petitioner. Uh if the request is

130
00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:49,960
granted, the petitioner is still

131
00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,120
maintaining a 47-ft rear yard setback.

132
00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,600
Uh again, significantly larger than all

133
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,280
other residential zoning classifications

134
00:04:56,280 --> 00:04:57,800
in our zoning ordinance.

135
00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,840
Uh we believe this patio adds value to

136
00:04:59,840 --> 00:05:01,880
the site. Uh adjoining properties are

137
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:03,240
not anticipated to be adversely

138
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,560
impacted. Uh additional Additionally,

139
00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:06,840
surrounding properties again were

140
00:05:06,840 --> 00:05:08,600
notified. Um

141
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:09,880
staff as of this writing has not

142
00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,520
received any concerns from neighbors or

143
00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:13,560
the public. So barring objections being

144
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:15,600
raised during the public hearing, uh we

145
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,240
believe this criterion was met as well.

146
00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,680
The final one, uh strict application

147
00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,200
Item number three, strict application of

148
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:24,040
the zoning ordinance would result in

149
00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,240
unnecessary hardship in the use of the

150
00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,480
property. As staff, we disagree with the

151
00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,480
petitioner on this criteria.

152
00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:30,360
Um

153
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,280
we define unnecessary hardship as the

154
00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:34,600
following: All relevant factors, when

155
00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:36,200
taken together, indicate that the land

156
00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,720
involved cannot yield a reasonable

157
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,280
return because of unique circumstances.

158
00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:42,840
A claim of unnecessary hardship

159
00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:45,200
justifying the grant of a variance

160
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,919
cannot be based on self-created

161
00:05:46,919 --> 00:05:49,120
conditions. A mere showing of economic

162
00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,040
loss is not sufficient.

163
00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,480
Summarizing, in this case, we believe

164
00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:55,120
the subject property already yields a

165
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,160
reasonable return supporting a 5,444

166
00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,760
square foot residence. Uh in staff's

167
00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,320
opinion, the desire for additional

168
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,160
outdoor space does not rise to

169
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,600
unnecessary hardship. Uh we could not

170
00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:09,280
identify unique circumstances or

171
00:06:09,280 --> 00:06:11,640
conditions on this site such as an

172
00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,800
easement or the topography of the land

173
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,240
uh that would support granting a

174
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,040
variance. Um additionally, the secondary

175
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:19,919
plat for section 9 of Holiday Farms was

176
00:06:19,919 --> 00:06:23,160
recorded in September 2023. Um the owner

177
00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:24,760
did have access to this information

178
00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,000
prior to purchasing the property and

179
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,400
designing their home. Despite having

180
00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,080
access to this information, they moved

181
00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:32,880
forward with the current proposal

182
00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:34,520
ultimately building the patio without a

183
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,520
permit and encroaching 3 ft over the

184
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:39,000
building line. Um in staff's opinion,

185
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,080
this is a self-created hardship. For

186
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,960
these reasons, uh we believe this

187
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,000
criterion was not met.

188
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,480
Um summarizing, you have to answer in

189
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,480
the affirmative all three. Uh

190
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,440
we could not get there on item number

191
00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,440
three. So, based on that, we have an

192
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,040
unfavorable staff recommendation uh of

193
00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,200
the requested variance to encroach 3 ft

194
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,680
into the 50-ft rear yard setback for the

195
00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:03,400
patio.

196
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,880
We've provided a sample motion

197
00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:06,520
um

198
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,840
at the last page of the staff report.

199
00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:10,360
I'm happy to answer any questions you

200
00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:11,800
have. Otherwise, I'll turn it back to

201
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:12,680
you.

202
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,040
>> Thank you, Mr. Smith. Um members of the

203
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,240
BZA, do you have any questions for

204
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,520
staff?

205
00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,960
>> Not at this time, I don't know.

206
00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,720
>> Okay, I would invite the petitioner to

207
00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,120
approach the uh

208
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:25,480
podium, state your name and your

209
00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:33,909
address.

210
00:07:33,919 --> 00:07:36,280
» I yeah, I'm Pete Gray. Um uh owner of

211
00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:37,800
Executive Homes.

212
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,400
Uh 1010 Third Avenue Southwest in Carmel

213
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,040
is our address.

214
00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,000
Um appreciate your time today. Um

215
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:47,360
I'm kind of new at this. The last time I

216
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,040
did a one of these things was for a barn

217
00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,560
I was building in Carmel and that's been

218
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,240
25 years ago. So, um I I spent a little

219
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:55,480
bit of time. I understood that there was

220
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,000
a a similar request for an encroachment

221
00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,120
that was presented to this board in

222
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,120
January.

223
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:03,720
Um

224
00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:05,200
so, I kind of followed the you know,

225
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,200
kind of the the guideline and criteria

226
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,000
that they went through and first of all,

227
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,160
the gentleman was very complimentary of

228
00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:12,880
Jonathan and his help and I will

229
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:14,560
continue to I'll go along with that as

230
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,919
well, very helpful. I appreciate the um

231
00:08:16,919 --> 00:08:19,480
all the assistance, but um I guess from

232
00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,840
the from the standpoint um the best I

233
00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:23,640
can do is kind of compare what was

234
00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,600
approved in January with what I'm hoping

235
00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,560
to get approved this evening and see if

236
00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,640
uh see if we can go along with that, but

237
00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,480
um

238
00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,280
so, I've I as Jonathan mentioned, we

239
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,039
have a 50-ft rear building setback line

240
00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,440
on that property, which

241
00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,039
uh that that setback isn't even listed

242
00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:44,440
in the in the document with the PUD. The biggest setback line they even

243
00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,520
reference is a 30-ft building setback

244
00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:47,560
line. So, it's it's a pretty

245
00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:49,640
extraordinary setback line to begin

246
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,600
with. Um

247
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,360
and uh I'm requesting a 3-ft

248
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:57,120
encroachment into that that 50-ft uh

249
00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:58,520
BSL.

250
00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,240
Um the uh and as a kind of a comparison,

251
00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,040
the one that was approved back in

252
00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,720
January, uh they were were requesting a

253
00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,160
10-ft

254
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:07,800
um

255
00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,640
encroachment um that would take that

256
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,600
really all the way back to the 20-ft

257
00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,920
building setback line. So,

258
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,560
relatively insignificant amount in

259
00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:18,480
comparison anyway.

260
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:19,200
Um

261
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,440
Both properties are unique in that

262
00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:23,600
neither one of them back up to any uh

263
00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,120
home sites. So, they were had back up to

264
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,400
a uh property to the north that's not

265
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,880
developed and this backed up to uh

266
00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:32,960
commercial space. So,

267
00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:33,640
uh

268
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,440
one of the considerations at that at

269
00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,200
that approval was that it did not back

270
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,160
up to another home.

271
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,520
Um I'm requesting a 3-ft encroachment

272
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,880
with 66 sq ft of patio.

273
00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:46,800
Um

274
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:47,920
Uh

275
00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,680
encroaching, the one that was approved

276
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:54,280
back in January was a 295 sq ft patio

277
00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,880
with 10-ft encroachment. So, again,

278
00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,320
significantly less of of an encroachment

279
00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,760
than than was was previously approved.

280
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,520
Um and the you know, I still I'll I'll

281
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,320
retain another 12 ft between

282
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:10,600
even this with this 3-ft encroachment,

283
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,040
I'm still 12 ft away from a 35-ft

284
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,720
drainage easement. Um and the other one

285
00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:18,920
that was approved uh was adjacent to and

286
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,880
on top of a 20-ft drainage and utility

287
00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,480
easement. So, again, a little bit more

288
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,000
space.

289
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,680
Um and I thought it was interesting. Um

290
00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:28,320
both both requests, my client's

291
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:30,880
Brazilian. They have some pretty unique

292
00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:32,440
cooking requirements and the gentleman

293
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,480
that got approved um also had some

294
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,520
cultural requirements that they they do

295
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,160
a lot of outdoor outdoor cooking to uh

296
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:41,080
in their

297
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,800
at least they prefer doing it that way,

298
00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:43,720
but

299
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,240
uh and then as Jonathan mentioned, that

300
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,520
both of those pro you know, projects had

301
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,400
building setback lines that exceed

302
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,440
Zionsville's typical requirement. Um I

303
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,600
think that's 20 ft.

304
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,400
The one that was approved in January had

305
00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,040
a 30-ft BSL and mine's a 50-ft BSL. So,

306
00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,680
we're we're well within what Zionsville

307
00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:06,280
typically looks for. Um and then I was

308
00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:11,400
going to make a comment um

309
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:12,960
that house the footprint of that house

310
00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,520
is is 2,841 sq ft. It's a It's a

311
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,720
relatively small three-bedroom ranch

312
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,480
with a fin with you know, a partially

313
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,320
finished basement. Um and the footprint

314
00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:24,960
of that house is literally within an

315
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,160
inch and a half of the maximum width I

316
00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,520
could build on that lot and an inch and

317
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,800
a half of the maximum depth I could

318
00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,040
build on that lot. And so, the the what

319
00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,400
was what's remaining is a small I'm

320
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,480
going to call it offset in the in that

321
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:42,480
building that's on the north

322
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:44,320
northeast corner.

323
00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:45,560
Um which, you know, obviously when

324
00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:46,880
you're that close to all those property

325
00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:53,840
lines, there's not a whole lot left to work with. So, um they you know, the grilling area is kind of tucked into

326
00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,200
a a corner of the home that's created on

327
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,480
the northeast uh northeast side. So,

328
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,800
um but again, we're you know, I'm border

329
00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,680
to border. I'm within an inch and a half

330
00:12:03,680 --> 00:12:06,560
each direction of the maximum um

331
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:08,240
footprint I could build on that both

332
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,120
front to back and side to side.

333
00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:12,760
Um

334
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,600
And then, as as Jonathan mentioned,

335
00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,560
building you know, the the the standard

336
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,440
one and two are are fairly easy to meet.

337
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:21,280
Um it's you know,

338
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:22,520
standard number three, you know, the

339
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,040
unnecessary hardship standard. Um I

340
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,120
think it's kind of hard to argue that

341
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:28,760
anyone who lives in Holiday Farms has

342
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,760
very many unnecessary hardships. That's

343
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,560
a beautiful community and and uh

344
00:12:33,560 --> 00:12:35,080
there's not a whole lot of unnecessary

345
00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,240
hardship uh you you you see as you go

346
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,480
through there.

347
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,480
Um but anyway, um it's it's one of those

348
00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,160
things uh I have a letter I think

349
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,240
Jonathan I sent a copy to him. I have a

350
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,360
letter from uh Hanky Development uh

351
00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,920
encouraging you to approve the 3-ft

352
00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:54,680
encroachment. Um

353
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:56,480
and uh I guess that's what I'm asking

354
00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,670
for this evening.

355
00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:01,960
» Thank you. Uh before I invite uh

356
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,880
questions from my fellow commission

357
00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,920
members, I'll just note that each zoning

358
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,520
appeal stands on its own.

359
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,240
>> Of course, I understand that.

360
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:12,880
>> And uh so, just want to put that on the

361
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:13,240
record.

362
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,960
>> I get I've just I'm kind of new at this,

363
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,320
so I just I knew that one was approved,

364
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:18,839
so I just kind of followed the template

365
00:13:18,839 --> 00:13:19,160
that was there.

366
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,320
>> I understand your thinking, but just so that you and everyone know,

367
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:23,200
>> Fully understand.

368
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,600
>> each one of these individually.

369
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:25,560
>> Fully understood.

370
00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:27,520
>> Uh do we have any

371
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,080
questions for the petitioner at this

372
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:30,720
time?

373
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,320
>> Has the patio already been built or

374
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,280
>> Yeah, my my client worked directly with

375
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,280
Indy Grills on the design. So, yeah, it

376
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,440
that it and I take responsibility for

377
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:42,240
it. It got beyond behind, you know, kind

378
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,800
of in front of us on it. But, yeah, it's

379
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,080
built.

380
00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:49,360
>> Like my other question was to the north

381
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,440
of the setback, is that residential area

382
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:52,640
or is that

383
00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:55,760
>> Um, it's I think it's I think it's R2.

384
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,720
It's a huge huge lot with a big house on

385
00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,400
it. It's probably a 10 or 12 and it's a

386
00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:02,880
huge parcel. Jonathan, you can probably

387
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,440
pull that up, Jonathan, but

388
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:05,480
>> It's R2.

389
00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,030
>> Yeah.

390
00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,600
» They've had a driveway.

391
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:11,160
>> Yeah, but

392
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,710
>> Okay.

393
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,320
» Are you pulling that up, Jonathan? So

394
00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,360
>> I I'm pulling it up right now. Um,

395
00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,680
if you could switch to the mouse mouse

396
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:22,120
There you go. It just takes a second for

397
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:23,400
all my

398
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,870
I have too many layers turned on my GIS.

399
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:31,080
» Well, Jonathan, even it might be helpful

400
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:33,200
to the commission as a whole to

401
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:34,360
um

402
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,040
uh even if you went to Google Maps, it

403
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,320
might show us uh

404
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,280
>> Here Here's the Here's the parcel. It is

405
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,720
a large parcel. It's zoned R2.

406
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,400
Um, residential use.

407
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,920
A a relatively larger home with

408
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,080
associated accessory structures.

409
00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:50,560
Looks like a barn or a pole barn or

410
00:14:50,560 --> 00:15:02,829
something like that.

411
00:15:02,839 --> 00:15:04,640
» Would anybody have any further questions

412
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:05,839
for the petitioner?

413
00:15:05,839 --> 00:15:07,160
>> Just a clarification. You said this

414
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,720
house is 2,800 square feet.

415
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:10,880
>> 20

416
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,120
8 Let me check my math here. 2,841

417
00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,480
I think is what Yeah, 2,841 square foot

418
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:18,040
uh

419
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,080
living space on the It's a ranch style

420
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:21,880
plan. So, it's only got one story.

421
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:23,600
>> It's a three-bedroom

422
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,150
standard three-bedroom,

423
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,880
It's got part of the basement's finished

424
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,240
off with some additional living space,

425
00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,160
but that's that the footprint of the

426
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:39,270
main floor is 2841.

427
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:40,000
Uh

428
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,280
I could have stretched it an inch and a

429
00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:42,920
half each direction, but it didn't pick

430
00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,990
me up very much. So

431
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,680
Yeah, it's and it it is interesting. I

432
00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,160
mean, when I sit down with my design

433
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:52,360
team, you know, we're you know, the you

434
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,760
want you want to utilize everything you

435
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:56,480
can on those lots and uh

436
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,480
um so I you know, when when we designed

437
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:00,680
it was very intentional that we were we

438
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,160
were tight to both front building

439
00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:03,800
setback, you know, with the home and

440
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:08,430
side building setback. So, yep.

441
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,790
Yes.

442
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,950
That's all I got so far.

443
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,840
Jonathan, I don't know if anyone signed

444
00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,440
up to speak

445
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:21,720
for this one or if there's anyone

446
00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,800
online. It looks like there may be

447
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,360
someone. Did you sign up, sir? Okay. Um

448
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:28,680
sir, if you'd take a seat for a moment,

449
00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:29,920
we're going to invite this gentleman.

450
00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:34,870
>> Sure.

451
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,350
Thank you.

452
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,800
» Mr. Colepepper, I presume?

453
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:41,400
>> That's correct.

454
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,800
>> Okay. If you'd state your name and your

455
00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:43,440
address.

456
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:44,960
>> Uh yes, my name is William Colepepper

457
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,120
and and I own the the property that you

458
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:50,160
were just now referencing at 3402 South

459
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:51,920
US 421.

460
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,960
Uh my first time in a meeting like this,

461
00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,400
so I just received a certified letter.

462
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:57,839
Um I don't know if it's possible for you

463
00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:00,680
to pull up a more recent Google uh just

464
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,360
the Google Map image of the property,

465
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,760
but it it is a completed home. There are

466
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,680
two structures on it. Uh there's a

467
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,880
10,000 square foot main house and a

468
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,280
10,000 square foot hospitality house. Uh

469
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,040
it's a significant property. We've made

470
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,240
a significant investment in

471
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,120
and I know that um

472
00:17:18,120 --> 00:17:19,600
the builder

473
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,000
worked with Hanky and Holiday Farms, you

474
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,160
know, intentionally to create that 50-ft

475
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,079
setback in order to protect the value of

476
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,000
our property. I understand that

477
00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,920
something has already been built. My

478
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,680
concern is there about 12 or 14

479
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,400
properties in Holiday Farms that their

480
00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,920
backyard goes into our property and the

481
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:42,440
one that's being discussed today

482
00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:44,920
requesting the setback as you can see is

483
00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,560
right in the middle of my front yard.

484
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,720
And I'm not sure how these things work,

485
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560
but I don't understand if if if a

486
00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,160
an exception is created for this

487
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,720
property, is that just one domino in the

488
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,800
middle that falls for the rest of all

489
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:00,440
the other properties or will other

490
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,520
individuals ask for 3 ft plus another 10

491
00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,920
ft or want to build a pool and and I'm

492
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:10,480
trying to to understand. So, I guess as I stand here today, I'm I'm not in

493
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,680
favor of the request. I'd like to ask

494
00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,280
for a continuance to just to have time

495
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,800
to consult professionals to understand

496
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,600
what this means to the entirety of my

497
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,160
property. And and perhaps one question

498
00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,560
you guys can answer is if a variance was allowed for for this

499
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,360
property could that be the end of it?

500
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,360
And and you know, with this 3 ft because

501
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,000
I understand it's only 66 or whatever

502
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,640
however many feet that was described,

503
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:37,520
but

504
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,440
there's 14 other homes there that likely

505
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,400
will want the exact same thing or more

506
00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,000
and I'm I'm trying to understand that.

507
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,440
So, I'm not in favor and and would like

508
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:49,240
to request a continuance to learn more.

509
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,560
>> Thank you, Mr. Colepepper. I think I can

510
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,440
answer your narrow question the same way

511
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,200
I addressed the other gentleman. We take

512
00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,040
each petition on its own merits.

513
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,320
And so, whether there was an approval or

514
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,920
a denial tonight does not dictate what

515
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,960
might happen next time if a variance

516
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,600
request were to come in front of us. And

517
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,320
that that's really all the visibility I

518
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,280
can get at give to that.

519
00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,480
>> Okay, well that that um thank you.

520
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:16,240
Appreciate that.

521
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:23,950
>> No, thank you.

522
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:24,960
» Missioners?

523
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,200
>> Yeah, did you have somebody online?

524
00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:27,760
>> Oh, I'm so did we have anybody online?

525
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:29,200
Thank you. Sorry. Okay.

526
00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,920
>> I thought you said you did.

527
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:33,640
>> Okay, well that Mr. Colepepper is the

528
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:34,960
only one that signed up. No one is

529
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,960
online, so I will close the public

530
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,480
comment at 6:53

531
00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:43,000
uh and invite commissioner discussion.

532
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,160
Or excuse me, forgive me. I should give

533
00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:45,760
uh

534
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,320
the petitioner a chance to

535
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,280
answer anything that was raised during

536
00:19:50,280 --> 00:20:02,550
the remonstration if he wishes.

537
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:04,720
» I get I guess my my only comment would

538
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:06,560
be and um

539
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:08,480
it is apparently some a different

540
00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:10,800
procedure not right wrong or indifferent

541
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,400
but different. Um I've built 15 or 16

542
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,080
homes in Holiday Farms. I've never had a

543
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:19,120
request to get a permit for a patio.

544
00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:22,840
I've built for at least 15 in Pemberton.

545
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:25,240
Never had to request to get a permit for

546
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,520
a patio. So I at at some point there I think there's been perhaps a

547
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,560
change in procedure or requirements or

548
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:34,680
something.

549
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,600
Um and so again I I guess that my only

550
00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:37,840
point being doesn't make it right or

551
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,000
wrong but I just you know it's it's from

552
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,360
the standpoint of you know I'm not a

553
00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:44,320
you know I'm not riding riding the range

554
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:45,440
wild out there. It's something that

555
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,200
we've never we've never

556
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:53,440
been ever asked for you know a perm an ILP permit for for a patio.

557
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,120
And I've been in both of those

558
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,320
communities I was in the 99 Home A Rama

559
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,000
at Pemberton and the two the excuse me

560
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,320
the 2019 Home A Rama in Pemberton and

561
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,000
the 2020 Home A Rama in Holiday Farms.

562
00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:06,880
So I I've been at both communities since

563
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,200
the inception and and have never been

564
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,440
even requested to get an ILP for a

565
00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,880
patio. So, but again, it's we we really do try

566
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,320
to follow the rules. I just it's just

567
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,840
kind of a new one for me anyway.

568
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:22,880
>> Thank you.

569
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:24,200
I would respond at least partially to

570
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,040
that and that is you may still not be

571
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,160
required to get a permit for a patio,

572
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:29,360
but that there is still a setback

573
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:30,320
requirement.

574
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,040
>> Oh, I understand No, I I'm not I'm not

575
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:32,640
trying to

576
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:33,000
>> Okay.

577
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,280
>> I'm not trying to blend the two.

578
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:34,880
>> Okay. Okay.

579
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,000
>> It's something that you know, it's you

580
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,080
know, it the the the permit part of it's

581
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,680
just unique or something we're going to

582
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:43,960
have to get used to I think.

583
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:44,360
>> Okay.

584
00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:45,760
>> And the and the the part that's

585
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,480
interesting is and so many times when

586
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,240
you're when you're at the design stage

587
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,320
with the client, you know, I they don't

588
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:52,680
know what they want. They know they want

589
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,160
something, but you know, they want to

590
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,520
stand in their house and look out the

591
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,480
backyard and go, "Gosh, I think my patio

592
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,720
would work here or here or here." So, um

593
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:02,440
sometimes it's a little premature to try

594
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,080
to identify on a piece of paper a plot a

595
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,880
plan where the best place for a patio is

596
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,920
until the client has a chance to to see

597
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,480
it from the you know, from the house.

598
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:12,400
>> Looks like there's another porch at

599
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:13,520
least probably built.

600
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,040
>> I'm sorry.

601
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:16,040
>> There's another porch or first porch

602
00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:17,960
perhaps already built as well.

603
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,280
>> It has a lanai.

604
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,080
>> Okay. Okay.

605
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,360
Um so, then that's built at grade?

606
00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:23,800
>> I'm sorry.

607
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:25,520
>> The porch is built at grade. It's not

608
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:26,520
elevated or is it?

609
00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,280
>> The the lanai is probably

610
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,640
4 ft or so above grade and then there's

611
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:33,000
a

612
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:33,280
>> Okay.

613
00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,120
>> Yeah, that that lot has quite a

614
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:35,920
>> Okay.

615
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,560
>> it from the back which kind of creates

616
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,400
another bit of a challenge as well.

617
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:41,040
>> Okay. And then the new porch or the the

618
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,760
smaller one that's the subject tonight,

619
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,120
is that also built at grade or is that

620
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:44,960
also elevated?

621
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:45,640
>> That's a

622
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:46,040
>> Okay.

623
00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,520
>> it's it's just Yeah, it's

624
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,200
There's some differentiation there that

625
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,280
again, the lanai is probably 4 ft above

626
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,320
grade and then has steps going down to

627
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,360
meet grade for the for the patio.

628
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:57,640
>> Okay.

629
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,760
>> Or really it's a grilling station.

630
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:04,670
>> All right. Thank you.

631
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,480
Mhm. Thank you, Mr. Dale.

632
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,000
I should note, and Mr. Dale and Mr.

633
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:12,520
Smith, correct me, but since we are

634
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,120
short a commissioner tonight,

635
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:17,040
it still would take three votes for an

636
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,200
approval.

637
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,120
So, a tie is actually a denial. Is that

638
00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:20,600
correct?

639
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,480
>> A tie is a continuance. It's no It's no

640
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:23,600
>> Okay, it's no action.

641
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:24,320
>> Yeah, no action.

642
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,680
>> Okay. All right. Okay. Thank you for

643
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,680
that clarification, just so that

644
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,040
everyone in the room understands that.

645
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,120
Um

646
00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:36,960
I invite any discussion.

647
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Oh, forgive me.

648
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,080
Jonathan,

649
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:42,680
Amanda texted that she has tried to join

650
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,320
remotely, wasn't able to get in. So, I

651
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,840
don't know if somebody could watch out.

652
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,680
It probably is a little situational for

653
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,840
her, but if somebody could watch out

654
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,990
as she's trying to join.

655
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,320
» I would

656
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,080
point to IT in the back. Do you have

657
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,520
access to the the Zoom link?

658
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:04,320
>> I'm sorry, what was the question?

659
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:05,800
>> Uh we have a board member who's trying

660
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,440
to join remotely.

661
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,240
Um and somebody needs to allow her into

662
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,680
the Zoom link.

663
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,840
I believe that link was created by IT.

664
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,280
>> Yes, I will work on that.

665
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:18,360
>> Okay, thank you.

666
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:19,320
>> And I

667
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:20,800
um

668
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:22,600
she may have moved on, and I'll text her

669
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,480
that you're on the lookout for her uh in a moment here.

670
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:27,720
Uh all right, sorry for the

671
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,160
interruptions, please.

672
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,160
>> I'm curious how many other homes are

673
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,440
built

674
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,680
adjacent to this house that that may

675
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,080
want to build outdoor, or are they

676
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,200
already completed? Was this the last

677
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,120
house on the road to be built?

678
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,080
>> I don't know the answer to that.

679
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,040
Jonathan, do you know?

680
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,800
>> Um I don't know the exact I

681
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,400
>> I don't know the exact answer. No, there

682
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,600
are there are more vacant lots along

683
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,280
that the north side of Dartmoor. Um

684
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,350
there's

685
00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,320
four or five built maybe. I got one,

686
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:05,040
two, three, four. I I can see four in my

687
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:06,840
head, so there's four or five anyway

688
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:08,360
that are built along the north side of

689
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,440
Dartmoor there.

690
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,000
But maybe more, but I can remember that

691
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,710
many.

692
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,280
» So, Mr. Culpepper reference you want to

693
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,000
continuance on this to consult with

694
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,080
someone. Is that something you would

695
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:22,320
oppose?

696
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,870
>> No, that's fine. I

697
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,320
» Question, is this holding up the C of O?

698
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:32,720
>> I don't believe so.

699
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,640
>> Okay.

700
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,760
>> Um

701
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,320
We We We got a conditional C of O for

702
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,120
landscaping cuz they closed when it was

703
00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,120
not landscaped. It's It is now

704
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,160
landscaped and I believe we had a an

705
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:49,360
inspection maybe even today.

706
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:52,120
Um landscaping is complete, but um

707
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,120
you know, so I I needed I think I had a

708
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,360
May 15th deadline to get um

709
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:59,000
you know, for that for the final C of O

710
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,520
for landscaping, so we're

711
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,280
We got it done and it's inspected. I

712
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:05,480
don't know if there's any comments or

713
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,800
not.

714
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,720
>> Um okay. I I just don't want to create a

715
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,440
situation where you get past the May the

716
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,560
May uh your deadline in May. And if this

717
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,200
is continued, it'll be continued past

718
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:19,560
that May deadline.

719
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:20,640
And so

720
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:21,520
>> for what?

721
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:23,240
>> You said landscaping, I believe.

722
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,160
>> Yeah, it's landscaped.

723
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,120
>> This will be continued to June 3rd. So,

724
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,600
if you have a deadline that you have to

725
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,800
meet by May and this plays a role

726
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:32,560
in that

727
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,880
>> I That's beyond me, Jonathan. I I don't

728
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,160
know how that how all that's related to

729
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,320
be candid with you. I know that on the inspection report, the only thing

730
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,720
that was noted was, you know,

731
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,600
landscaping, but I don't know the internal

732
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:46,760
>> Is the family living there?

733
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,280
>> Oh, yeah.

734
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,680
>> Okay, that's all I care about. I don't

735
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:50,000
want to keep a family from moving into

736
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:50,400
their home

737
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,040
>> no, no, no, no. I got conditional. See, the house was

738
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:55,920
>> Yeah. was approved fully except for

739
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:57,560
landscaping and that was simply because

740
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,400
it was just a mud pile out there. So,

741
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,280
yeah, the they moved in with mud, now they've

742
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:04,120
got grass. So, they're all they're all

743
00:27:04,120 --> 00:27:05,760
good to go.

744
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:07,440
>> And this is an an open patio. It won't

745
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,480
be enclosed or covered. Is that correct?

746
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:15,390
>> Okay.

747
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:17,200
In the petitioner's narrative, they

748
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,080
mentioned that they could not find

749
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:24,040
anywhere in the Holiday Farms PUD

750
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,480
where this 50-ft setback was mentioned.

751
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,240
I went back to look myself. I didn't see

752
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,200
anywhere as well where I think most I

753
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,600
saw was maybe a 35-ft setback.

754
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,600
So, can you explain to me the evolution

755
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,080
of this setback? Did this occur during

756
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,880
the platting?

757
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,120
>> That's correct. So, the the previous

758
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:45,960
gentleman who lives behind this parcel

759
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,360
that just spoke kind of shed light as to

760
00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,280
the creation of this. So,

761
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,480
um when the PUD is drafted and adopted,

762
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,480
approved, um there was development

763
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:56,720
standards.

764
00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:58,600
Um the one in question is the rear yard

765
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,280
setback, correct?

766
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:01,360
Um

767
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,440
the minimum for the Holiday Farms PUD is

768
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,240
35-ft, right? And historically,

769
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:07,800
developers

770
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,840
reflect the minimum, right? You want to

771
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,640
have the most buildable area, the least

772
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,200
impact, right? And so, they'll they'll

773
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,640
reflect that. Um prior to this meeting,

774
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,240
I tried to find the research as to why

775
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:22,960
this developer

776
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,360
would knowing that it's a 35-ft, go

777
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:27,840
above and beyond and be like, "I don't

778
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,240
want to do 35-ft. I want to make it 50."

779
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:31,400
And I was trying to find that

780
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,200
conversation that it occurred. I

781
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,920
couldn't find it until this gentleman

782
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,080
just spoke and his

783
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,600
testimony, his his his speech provided

784
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,360
light as to why that was done. It was

785
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,720
done so that this gentleman's land in

786
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,760
the back between him and the developer,

787
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,320
he has that additional buffer. Um there

788
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,560
is nothing in

789
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,360
our zoning standards that prohibits

790
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:57,880
developers

791
00:28:57,880 --> 00:28:59,800
from going and doing above and beyond

792
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,240
the minimum, right? What we say is if

793
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:04,800
you're going to do that, you have to

794
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:06,000
plat it.

795
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:07,680
And the number that's on the plat that's

796
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,280
recorded, that's what we're going to

797
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,520
hold you to. So you don't have to put

798
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,960
50,

799
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,240
but if you put 50, you understand

800
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:15,640
>> Mhm.

801
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:16,960
>> that that's what we're holding you to,

802
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,910
not 35. That's what occurred.

803
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:23,520
» Without digging completely through the

804
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,560
Holiday Farms uh subdivision, this is

805
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,400
the only 50-ft setback in the for the

806
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:31,760
most part in the entire project. So

807
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,920
there's clearly what's concerned

808
00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,120
for the joining landowner

809
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:38,120
is why this 50-ft building setback. Cuz

810
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,200
like I said, I I read that letter and

811
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,480
then I went back and read through the

812
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,440
PUD and there was the minimums and

813
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:45,240
traditionally developers are going to

814
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,960
build where we let them build. So

815
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,040
that helps me shed some light onto what

816
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,000
where that building setback line came

817
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:53,240
from.

818
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:54,600
>> I guess the only thing I would add to

819
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,080
that, and Jonathan, you you'd sent this

820
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,000
to me and I happen to bring it with me.

821
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,480
Um the actual matrix that they have, um

822
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,840
minimum rear setback lines

823
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,760
range from 10 ft in section H, I, J, and

824
00:30:06,760 --> 00:30:08,120
G

825
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,000
uh going to 25 ft in E and F and 30 ft

826
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,880
in A through ABCD. So it's that, you

827
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:17,680
know, and again, the the the 50 ft is

828
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,840
not even mentioned on this on this

829
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,440
matrix, but but they apparently they the

830
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,280
rear building setback line can be as

831
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,880
little as 10 ft. I don't know if they

832
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,880
ever did that or not, but

833
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,320
Yeah, but you you provided me that

834
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,200
matrix back

835
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:32,680
>> But so it But it was done during the

836
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,600
platting process.

837
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,000
>> Yeah, yeah, so

838
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:37,760
>> Well, well, the planning commission

839
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,440
approved the plat, primary plat. It was

840
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,160
on that primary plat that we approved.

841
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:46,120
>> Yeah, um that's exactly right. So, the concern

842
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:47,200
there there's two things. One, the

843
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:48,480
concern should have been raised at the

844
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,440
platting plan commission stage about why

845
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,520
are you platting such a large

846
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,640
in excess of the minimum

847
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,480
line. Um

848
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:00,800
I'm I'm not not sure if that question

849
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,720
was asked or not, but

850
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,320
um

851
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:04,640
it was clearly okay because it was

852
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,080
approved, right? Um

853
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,160
so so here we are. And the other thing

854
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,840
would be you can always amend the plat.

855
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,640
Um and despite

856
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:17,400
several, you know, not to jump off into

857
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,000
the weeds on that, but um despite

858
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000
numerous petitions, we've we've elected

859
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,800
not to amend the plat.

860
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,430
So.

861
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,640
» And just when when folks buy these lots,

862
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,760
they get a copy of the plat. They know

863
00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:36,520
this was I mean, they're not I guess

864
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,080
they're not buying the lots prior to the

865
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,640
platting being done. They're aware of

866
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,960
this primary this 50-ft building setback

867
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,000
line when they purchase lots. Just It's

868
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:45,240
the same question I bring up every time.

869
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,240
>> Yeah, the the recording of the plat at

870
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,200
the county is what actually creates the

871
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,200
square you'll see on my GIS map. So, um

872
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,760
there's nothing to buy until it's

873
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,670
recorded.

874
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,920
» So, the homeowner and the home builder

875
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:06,360
were aware of the 50-ft setback.

876
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,520
>> I don't want to speak to what they're

877
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,840
aware to. I just can speak to what was

878
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:11,960
available to them.

879
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,640
Um I don't know if they I I don't want

880
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,120
to speak to the research or the the

881
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,160
level of of research they did. So, I

882
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:19,400
don't want to say that they were or were

883
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,680
not aware, but um

884
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,640
it was available. It was recorded.

885
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:25,640
Um

886
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:28,120
uh they had access to it if they wished

887
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,080
to look at it.

888
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:30,640
>> It is customary during I think the the

889
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,160
closing for the the buyer to get a copy

890
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,520
of the survey.

891
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:35,560
Um which would show these building

892
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,960
lines. Now, as to whether they read them

893
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:38,920
or not, you know, at the closings,

894
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:40,600
um that that's another thing, but that

895
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,440
is standard practice to include that

896
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:43,240
information.

897
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:44,760
>> And you would agree that they would not

898
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,320
have needed to get a permit to build a

899
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:48,280
patio.

900
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:49,480
>> I'm not sure what our process is in this

901
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,760
case, too.

902
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,680
For a patio.

903
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,720
>> So, there there's a a multi-pointed conversation,

904
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,800
right? And I'll I'll I'm going to do my

905
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,960
best to summarize it. Um

906
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,840
you've always needed a permit to get a

907
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,160
pad or a yeah, a permit for patios. That

908
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,000
That's That's been a policy that's not

909
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:08,560
changed, right?

910
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:09,120
Um

911
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,880
Holiday Farms is unique in that

912
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,200
most of the people that you see that

913
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,400
have existing patios and things of that

914
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,400
nature,

915
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,400
the approvals were uh

916
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,120
I'm going to say two-phased, right?

917
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,600
Phase one, they came through and got a

918
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,200
building permit for the house and only

919
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:29,520
the house. And if you look at the

920
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,960
permits for these houses, you'll notice

921
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,440
that the exterior features. Think of

922
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,640
landscaping, think of patios, things of

923
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,920
that nature. The exterior features are

924
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,800
not included in the submittal for the

925
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,120
construction of the house. So, the house

926
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:47,800
typically comes through as one permit,

927
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,560
phase one. Once the house is built or is

928
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,840
in the process of being built, the

929
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,560
owners are consulting with

930
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,600
Indy Grills or some other other

931
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,000
contractor to essentially put the

932
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,320
external components to the house, right?

933
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,000
So, now we have phase two. Um and

934
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,280
typically these types of issues are only

935
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,120
caught

936
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,040
um if the external features of the house

937
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,000
are under construction at the time of

938
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,679
final inspection.

939
00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:18,800
So,

940
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,760
our inspectors are going out there and

941
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,360
they're only looking at the plans that

942
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:25,720
were submitted as part of the house.

943
00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:27,040
And if it goes through the entire

944
00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:29,800
process and our inspectors look at the

945
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,960
house plans, look at the house, that's

946
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600
what was built, they will issue the CFO,

947
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,120
they'll give the final inspection,

948
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,440
and then as staff, we're done at that

949
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,919
site.

950
00:34:40,919 --> 00:34:43,360
Now, transition to the second component.

951
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:45,480
Things that are built without permits,

952
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,200
things that are built after the final

953
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,080
inspection, right? Things that may or

954
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,919
may not have been

955
00:34:52,919 --> 00:34:54,840
issued permits.

956
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,280
We as a office are a complaint-driven

957
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,960
code enforcement.

958
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,280
What that means is we try to be lenient,

959
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:06,440
we try to give grace, we understand that

960
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,560
regular Joes don't know all the building

961
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,160
codes or all the zoning regulations.

962
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:12,920
So, what's happened

963
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,000
is historically

964
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,280
most people haven't asked. They build

965
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,920
their house, they get their final CFO,

966
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,840
the family moves in,

967
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,320
suddenly they want a nice outdoor lawn

968
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,160
or patio, and they do it with a

969
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,880
contractor that's not included on the

970
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,760
permit, right? So, as staff, we have no

971
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,480
idea this is even occurring until

972
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,040
somebody comes in and asks permission to

973
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:40,720
do something,

974
00:35:40,720 --> 00:35:42,520
at which point we discover that there's

975
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:44,680
17 other people in Holiday Farms that

976
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,520
have things that were probably not

977
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:47,840
permitted.

978
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,680
But again, we're a complaint-driven

979
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,320
office as far as that's concerned. So,

980
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,600
that's how

981
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:56,520
you can end up in a situation where you

982
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,920
have homes being built

983
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,480
with external features.

984
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,360
Pick a feature, whether it's a patio or

985
00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:05,760
an outdoor kitchen, whatever, and these

986
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,680
items are encroaching into setbacks or

987
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,560
possibly drainage easements, things of

988
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:13,880
that nature.

989
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,800
Um and they're there, and they're

990
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,400
existing, and you have petitioners who

991
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:17,680
are seeing these things, and they're

992
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:18,640
like, "Well, I just want what my

993
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,320
neighbor has."

994
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:21,480
Well, there's a chance your neighbor

995
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,360
didn't ask permission. There's a chance

996
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,880
your neighbor probably built in a

997
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,520
setback or an easement. And the reason

998
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,120
that it's not been an issue is because

999
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,800
we have not received a code enforcement

1000
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,160
complaint. People in Holiday Farms tend

1001
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:34,200
to

1002
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,280
not turn their neighbors in, right?

1003
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:37,520
Which is

1004
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:42,480
their right to do. So, the only time we

1005
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,000
enforce these things

1006
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,920
is when we get a complaint.

1007
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,200
I hope all of that said, that's how we

1008
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,360
end up with these situations.

1009
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,120
>> So, technically they should have gotten

1010
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,000
a permit.

1011
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:56,520
>> Yes.

1012
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:57,280
>> Everyone should have.

1013
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,080
>> Our department has never had a policy

1014
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,520
where patios did not require permits.

1015
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,040
It's just often times when they get

1016
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,520
permits, they don't include the patios

1017
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,240
on the plans that are submitted.

1018
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:11,760
And we go through the entire process, we

1019
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,040
issue the CFO, we do the final

1020
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,520
inspection, the house matches the plans

1021
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,920
we have, and then staff leaves. And we

1022
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,480
have no reason to go back to that site.

1023
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,280
And then after that point is when all

1024
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,520
the landscaping and external features

1025
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,000
tend to appear on houses, and um staff

1026
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:30,600
has no involvement in it.

1027
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,720
>> I guess my my comment to that though,

1028
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:34,800
Jonathan, if if someone's adding

1029
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,200
something after they take occupancy of

1030
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,520
the home, that that could be very true.

1031
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,440
Um I we we don't close houses without

1032
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:44,560
patios. I mean, I

1033
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,280
you know, it's you know, so you know, I

1034
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,800
mean, I I guess that to to differentiate

1035
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:50,000
between what you're what you're

1036
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,560
describing and and what I'm describing,

1037
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,120
you know, every house I've built in

1038
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:55,520
Pemberton and every house I've built in

1039
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:57,840
Holiday Farm, the the patio's been there

1040
00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,520
when we you know, cuz you know, we we

1041
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,080
know we don't want to be trucking across

1042
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,440
a you know, trying to get through a 5-ft

1043
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,360
side yard to pour a concrete patio after

1044
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:07,560
the house is built. So, we're we're

1045
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,360
pouring patios

1046
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:12,320
when we're doing driveways. So, I I'm

1047
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:13,720
not going to say that people aren't

1048
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,040
after the fact adding elements to their

1049
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,680
property, but but I can say that the the

1050
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,080
15 I've built in Pemberton and 15 I've

1051
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,960
built in Holiday Farms.

1052
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,360
Every patio that that we've installed

1053
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,440
has been installed when that you know,

1054
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,200
when the inspection's been done.

1055
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:30,360
>> As part of the original permit for the

1056
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,400
house?

1057
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,160
>> I I assuming I I just I'd always assume

1058
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:36,760
that because of those 30 jobs I've never

1059
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,520
been asked for a separate permit. So,

1060
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,320
again, I'm you know, again, I you know,

1061
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:42,920
I've been I've owned the company 30

1062
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:44,240
years. I don't want to claim ignorance

1063
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:46,240
because that would be ignorant, but but

1064
00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:49,000
I I but I guess my point my point is

1065
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,040
that um

1066
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,160
we you know, if if that's if that's been

1067
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,720
the procedure that that the 30 or so

1068
00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,600
I've built since, you know, 2019 just in

1069
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,320
those two communities

1070
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,360
that we've we've always had the patio

1071
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,640
in. We we won't we can't

1072
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:07,160
>> I I I don't think the petitioner is

1073
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,200
self-reporting anything we need to do

1074
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:10,760
code enforcement on.

1075
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,320
You know, no, what I what I can say

1076
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,440
we'll we'll bring it back to this

1077
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:14,880
petition. What I can say is this

1078
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,760
petition um you know

1079
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,680
the the patio was not included

1080
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,640
in the permit paperwork. It just wasn't.

1081
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,600
So, that's what triggered the inspector

1082
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,200
to notice it.

1083
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,640
Um

1084
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,560
you know

1085
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,920
>> What's in front of us isn't a lack of

1086
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,600
permit. What's in front of us is a

1087
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,640
request for a variance setback on a

1088
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,280
patio that is already built.

1089
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:39,680
>> Yeah.

1090
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:41,600
>> However it got there.

1091
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,920
Um

1092
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,760
and I'm just con- this has gone on for a

1093
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:45,920
bit. So, I'm confirming my

1094
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,480
understanding.

1095
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,280
The setback as recorded on the plat is

1096
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:51,760
>> Yes, sir.

1097
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,320
>> And we have testimony tonight

1098
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,560
uh is to perhaps the reason why is the

1099
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,840
adjacent property owner had negotiated

1100
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,480
that with the developer.

1101
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:01,880
>> Yes, sir.

1102
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,000
>> Okay. So, I view the state of affairs as

1103
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,040
the remonstrator is said he's against

1104
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:09,920
it, but he's willing to con-

1105
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,320
uh consider he has asked us to consider

1106
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:14,200
a continuance so he can think about it

1107
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:16,520
more and its ramifications.

1108
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,160
Um as I am on

1109
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,400
darn near every setback variance, this

1110
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,520
is something I would

1111
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,160
be disinclined to allow.

1112
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,680
Uh, having said that, um,

1113
00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,200
I invite a motion and the remonstrator

1114
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,840
has even asked for a continuance and not

1115
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,560
an actual vote tonight.

1116
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,040
>> I'll I'm ready to make a motion.

1117
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:38,200
Um,

1118
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,680
uh, for a continuance actually.

1119
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,040
Um, let me get to terminology so I sound

1120
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,080
right.

1121
00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:49,640
I move the docket 202604-DSV

1122
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,280
Development Centers variance to encroach

1123
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:56,920
3 ft into the 50-ft rear yard setback for construction of a

1124
00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,760
patio at 10850

1125
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,560
Dartmouth Court be continued to our June

1126
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,040
3rd, 2026 BZA meeting.

1127
00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:07,400
>> I'll second it.

1128
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,000
>> Thank you, Mr. Martin.

1129
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,440
All in favor, say I.

1130
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,800
>> I.

1131
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,520
>> Any opposed, same sign.

1132
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:18,110
Thank you, Mr. Curdale.

1133
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:19,720
Okay. Thank you. It's

1134
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:21,400
Sorry, it has been continued to the next

1135
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:21,920
meeting.

1136
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:28,630
>> Okay. Thanks.

1137
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,360
» Okay.

1138
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:32,160
We will now move on to our next

1139
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,240
petition, which is 202605

1140
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:36,520
SE,

1141
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,760
a special exception pursuant to section

1142
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,710
194.07B2A

1143
00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:44,840
to provide for the use of manufacturing

1144
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,280
soaps and detergents in the urban

1145
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:52,880
heavy industrial I3 zoning district. Um,

1146
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,640
Mr. Smith, I assume you're taking the

1147
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:55,800
staff presentation.

1148
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:56,400
>> Yes, sir.

1149
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,560
>> Uh,

1150
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,040
yeah, so this this property, 1073

1151
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:04,000
Bennett Parkway, zoned I3, and what's

1152
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,280
unique about this, uh, petition, um, or

1153
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,960
actually really our zoning ordinance, is

1154
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:12,920
even though what the petitioner is doing

1155
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,520
would fall in the parameters of I2,

1156
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,600
the language in our zoning ordinance

1157
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:23,240
explicitly requires any I1 or I2 that

1158
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:26,560
wants to operate in I3, it requires

1159
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:28,440
those operations to receive special

1160
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:29,920
exceptions

1161
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:31,080
approval from the Board of Zoning

1162
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,840
Appeals in order to operate.

1163
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,880
That's a little unique, but that's

1164
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,160
exactly what we're here to discuss.

1165
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,800
Um

1166
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,040
Again,

1167
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,520
from a zoning standpoint, if you look at

1168
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,400
our zoning ordinance, these

1169
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,000
this operation would would classify as

1170
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:48,760
manufacturing soaps and

1171
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,360
detergents,

1172
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,240
which is not explicitly permitted by

1173
00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,240
right in I3.

1174
00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,120
This is a multi-tenant building that was

1175
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,720
built

1176
00:42:57,720 --> 00:43:01,600
in 2004. It's a 30,000 sq ft facility.

1177
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,040
Um the petitioner has provided um if you

1178
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,600
look at the exhibits, they've provided

1179
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,440
exhibit nine specifically a business

1180
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,480
description. Um they've provided a site

1181
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,160
plan and surveys. If you look at these

1182
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,920
exhibits,

1183
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,880
to skip to

1184
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,440
the staff analysis as far as the

1185
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:22,440
comprehensive plan,

1186
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,200
the comp plan supports office research

1187
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,960
and technology in this area.

1188
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,560
This designation is established to

1189
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:30,840
promote the development of research

1190
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,200
facilities, testing laboratories,

1191
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:37,200
admin facilities, and other uses, which

1192
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:38,920
is important in this case. Other uses

1193
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,360
such as distribution and warehouse,

1194
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,280
flex centers and light manufacturing

1195
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,360
is generally free from ejectable

1196
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:47,920
elements such as odor, dust, smoke, and

1197
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:48,960
glare

1198
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,360
um are also encouraged. So, in this

1199
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,120
case, staff, when we see that, we see

1200
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:55,680
what the petitioner is proposing and it

1201
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:57,680
aligns with the comprehensive plan's

1202
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,200
recommendation of light manufacturing or

1203
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:01,880
assembly.

1204
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,120
Um jumping to the second part

1205
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,560
of our analysis, which is the zoning. Um

1206
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,120
again, this is I3. It's a heavy

1207
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,560
industrial zoning classification, uh

1208
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:14,720
designed to accommodate heavy

1209
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:16,920
manufacturing and processing facilities

1210
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,280
that require substantial amount of

1211
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,360
outdoor storage. Uh they require

1212
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,600
extensive community facilities,

1213
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,440
um access to what we call arterial

1214
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,640
streets, which are our our main streets.

1215
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,680
Permitted uses in this district have

1216
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,480
excessive outdoor storage and service

1217
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,800
areas. They generate heavy traffic. Um

1218
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:35,720
the petitioner proposal is unlike the

1219
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:37,520
heavy industrial land uses intended for

1220
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:38,760
I3.

1221
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,200
Uh the proposed use is not a heavy

1222
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,920
manufacturing operation operation. Uh

1223
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,920
it's more closely aligned with general

1224
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520
industrial land uses. Um the zoning

1225
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,640
ordinance identifies the requested use

1226
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,480
as I2, as previously stated. Uh the

1227
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:54,920
proposal aligns more closely with I2

1228
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,000
zoning districts uses. Um the request

1229
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,360
for the special exception will allow

1230
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:01,720
this to operate in I3.

1231
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:03,640
Um

1232
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,120
skipping through the other um

1233
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,560
the other criteria as far as driveway

1234
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,600
location, parking, um external features

1235
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,720
such as the building character,

1236
00:45:13,720 --> 00:45:16,040
landscaping. Uh unless the petitioner

1237
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:17,680
has changed their mind, I'm not aware of

1238
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,360
any external features that will be

1239
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,360
changing to the site um with the

1240
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:23,600
exception of possible signage, right,

1241
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,000
for their business.

1242
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,000
Um

1243
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:28,600
to the questions that we have to answer

1244
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,280
the findings of fact um related to a

1245
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:34,480
special exception, there are three that

1246
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,560
we have to answer. Number one, the

1247
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,400
proposed use will not be injurious to

1248
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:39,920
public health and safety. Number two,

1249
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,680
the proposed use will not injure or

1250
00:45:41,680 --> 00:45:43,400
adversely affect adjacent areas or

1251
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,640
property values. And three, the proposed

1252
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:46,800
use will be consistent with the

1253
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:48,280
character of the district, land uses

1254
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:49,640
authorized therein, and the town's comp

1255
00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:52,040
plan. Number one, staff agrees with the

1256
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,000
petitioner on this criteria. Granting

1257
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:55,360
this request will not be injurious to

1258
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,120
public health and safety. From a use

1259
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,640
standpoint, their proposal is less

1260
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:00,520
impactful than other permitted more

1261
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,840
intense uses, such as the manufacturing

1262
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:08,480
of railroad equipment, farm machinery, or boiler tankers.

1263
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:09,480
This building was designed with

1264
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:11,200
manufacturing in mind,

1265
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:12,600
uh meeting applicable building and fire

1266
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,600
codes, and supporting adequate parking

1267
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,560
and loading berths for truck deliveries.

1268
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,200
Uh the petitioner also completed public

1269
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,440
noticing. Uh as of this writing, we did

1270
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:21,800
not receive any complaints or concerns

1271
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,920
from the public. For these reason For

1272
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:25,520
these reasons, we believe this criteria

1273
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,480
number one was met. Uh criteria number

1274
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,440
two, the proposed use will not injure or

1275
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,200
adversely affect the adjacent area or

1276
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,360
property values therein. Uh we agree

1277
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,720
with the petitioner on this criteria.

1278
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:37,920
If approved, the use would be confined

1279
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,240
inside the existing building, utilizing

1280
00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:41,960
infrastructure already on site, such as

1281
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:43,840
the loading berths and employee parking.

1282
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,840
Uh the building was designed in 2004 to

1283
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,240
meet development standards of an I3

1284
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,920
heavy industrial use. Uh their proposal

1285
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,480
is more consistent with permitted uses

1286
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:54,640
in I2, which are less intense

1287
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,240
uh than those allowed in I3.

1288
00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:58,480
Additionally, the property is surrounded

1289
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,200
by other light distribution and medium

1290
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,200
industrial businesses.

1291
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,320
Given the existing buffer and the

1292
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:05,960
landscaping already on site, adjoining

1293
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:07,560
properties are not anticipated to be

1294
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:09,200
adversely affected.

1295
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:10,240
The petitioner completed public

1296
00:47:10,240 --> 00:47:11,800
noticing, and as again, as of this

1297
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,160
writing, we did not receive any concerns

1298
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,280
from the public. So, once again, barring

1299
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:17,320
objections from the public being raised

1300
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,600
tonight, uh we believe this criterion

1301
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,200
was met.

1302
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,760
Item number three, the proposed use will

1303
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,920
be consistent with the character of the

1304
00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:26,040
district, land uses authorized therein,

1305
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:27,720
and the town's comp plan.

1306
00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,080
Uh again, we agree with the petitioner.

1307
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,040
The proposed use will be consistent with

1308
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:33,600
the character of this district, land

1309
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,160
uses authorized therein, and the comp

1310
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,800
plan. Uh the character of I3 zoning

1311
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,120
district encourages manufacturing, which

1312
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,400
is exactly what the petitioner is

1313
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:42,640
proposing.

1314
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:44,080
Their proposed operation is similar to

1315
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,080
the other manufacturings manufacturing

1316
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,240
operations in the area, such as

1317
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:50,880
Tri-Phase Technologies and Fanimation

1318
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,520
Fan, which is located north and east of this site.

1319
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,440
Uh the comprehensive plan

1320
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,360
designates this area as an office,

1321
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,320
research, and technology industrial,

1322
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,800
which is allowed which allows for

1323
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:05,920
manufacturing and distribution, again,

1324
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:06,880
which is what the petitioner is

1325
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,360
proposing. For this reason, staff

1326
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,200
believes the the requested use is

1327
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:12,960
consistent with the character of the

1328
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,400
nearby land uses and also aligns with

1329
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,000
the intent of the comprehensive plan.

1330
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,200
Um for those reasons, summarizing, we

1331
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,600
believe that criterion was met uh

1332
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,640
because we found in the affirmative all

1333
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:26,880
three findings

1334
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:27,840
um

1335
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,880
based on that report, staff staff's

1336
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:31,680
position is favorable regarding the

1337
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,000
requested entitlement. Um a sample

1338
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,400
motion again has been provided on the

1339
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:36,840
last page.

1340
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:39,080
Happy to answer any questions you have,

1341
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,600
otherwise, I'll turn it back to you.

1342
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,760
>> Thank you, Mr. Smith. Any questions for

1343
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,920
staff?

1344
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:47,600
Uh seeing none, I would invite the

1345
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,560
petitioner up, if they're here, to

1346
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,590
speak.

1347
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:55,680
If you would state your name and

1348
00:48:55,680 --> 00:49:03,030
address.

1349
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,880
» My name's Ken Woodcox, address 3188

1350
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,800
Bluewater Court, Newburgh, Indiana

1351
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:11,680
47630.

1352
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:14,640
I'm here representing Edward Ivey, the

1353
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,120
petitioner, and also representing Auto

1354
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,520
Course System.

1355
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:20,400
So,

1356
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,440
um first, to kind of give some context

1357
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,400
here, uh want to thank the staff uh with

1358
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:28,320
the town and the planning department,

1359
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:30,720
kind of everybody that was involved in

1360
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:32,800
reviewing this petition

1361
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:33,880
um

1362
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:35,760
from like I said, the the town planning

1363
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,880
department from the beginning, the

1364
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,600
professionalism that was exhibited, the

1365
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,600
responsiveness, the thoughtful analysis

1366
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:45,480
as we really went through this with the city of Zionsville to learn a little

1367
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,120
bit as well. We've been in

1368
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:49,840
We've uh we've looked for property in

1369
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:51,720
multiple different areas around the

1370
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:53,800
Indianapolis area,

1371
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:55,040
um and we

1372
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,640
each place you go it's a little bit

1373
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:58,480
different and you learn a little bit and

1374
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:01,120
I I believe the process was actually

1375
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:03,360
helpful in the end to help us make a

1376
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,800
better determination of what we want to

1377
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:05,760
do.

1378
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,520
To give you some context of who we are

1379
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:10,120
and what we do, Auto-Chlor System is a

1380
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,400
nationwide company and we specialize in

1381
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,600
leasing, manufacturing, and servicing

1382
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,520
commercial dish equipment dish dish

1383
00:50:17,520 --> 00:50:19,840
machines and providing cleaning prod-

1384
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,600
products to restaurants, hotels, health

1385
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,920
care facilities, schools,

1386
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:27,440
and other hospitality institution.

1387
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:29,120
For the last couple of decades, we've

1388
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,240
operated our business in the

1389
00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:31,920
Indianapolis area,

1390
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,880
uh most recently on 79th Street in

1391
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:36,760
Marion County.

1392
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,160
Our proposed operation in this location

1393
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,920
it would be about 12,000 square feet

1394
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:44,000
in a 30,000 foot square foot uh

1395
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,560
multi-tenant uh building.

1396
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:49,360
Uh the facility for us would primarily

1397
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,600
uh serve as a regional hub for service,

1398
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,440
distribution, warehousing, and

1399
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,960
administrative operations uh with light

1400
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,000
manufacturing activities related to the

1401
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,080
blending of soaps and detergents. That's

1402
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,840
what outlines us in the I2 parameter.

1403
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,080
Um importantly, our operation is as as

1404
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:11,320
Jonathan said is more consistent with I2

1405
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,080
light industrial general industrial use

1406
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,400
rather than the traditional um heavy

1407
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,920
industrial operations. As noted in the

1408
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,440
staff report, our operation does not

1409
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:23,480
involve heavy outdoor machinery or

1410
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,000
equipment, um substantial outdoor

1411
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,360
storage, or any type of unusual high

1412
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,240
traffic generation, or any type of

1413
00:51:31,240 --> 00:51:34,400
nuances that generally are common with

1414
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,000
uh I3 uh heavy industrial buildings and

1415
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,480
operations. So, think noise, odors,

1416
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,600
trash. Uh we're not going to bring those

1417
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,720
to your community here.

1418
00:51:43,720 --> 00:51:45,520
Um

1419
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,720
and and and as Jonathan stated, our

1420
00:51:47,720 --> 00:51:51,440
operation is is is is less than

1421
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,280
intensive than the the uses already

1422
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,200
outlined in that I-3 zoning area.

1423
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,400
Our operations, uh, one of the concerns

1424
00:51:58,400 --> 00:51:59,880
sometimes is

1425
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:02,480
our operation is completely enclosed

1426
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,040
within the building.

1427
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,760
In in that building, there's no outdoor

1428
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:07,800
storage. We're not proposing any

1429
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,760
exterior modifications. We're not trying

1430
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,760
to change any traffic flow traffic flow.

1431
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,880
We're not trying to modify parking, and

1432
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:17,760
we need no additional outdoor storage.

1433
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,400
The site already contains the

1434
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:21,920
infrastructure necessary to support our

1435
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,240
use, including the parking, loading

1436
00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:26,320
areas, utilities, and appropriate

1437
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,120
building systems are already there for what we need.

1438
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,400
Now, from a community standpoint, um,

1439
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:34,320
this is a relatively low-impact

1440
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:37,040
facility. We employ approximately 14

1441
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,440
people in these locations on average

1442
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:40,880
nationwide.

1443
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,720
Uh, we operate primarily during standard

1444
00:52:42,720 --> 00:52:45,240
business hours. We utilize medium

1445
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:47,240
cargo-size vans, like your Ford Transit

1446
00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:49,640
vans you see on the roads today. This is

1447
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,720
not a large-scale industrial trucking

1448
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:54,920
company uh, that's going in there.

1449
00:52:54,920 --> 00:52:56,200
Our service employees come into the

1450
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,320
locations in the morning. They go out

1451
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,400
into the into the community and service the customers and come back at

1452
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,400
the end of the day. Our facility is not

1453
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:05,960
open to the public. We do not have any

1454
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:07,800
type of retail sales, and we have zero

1455
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,120
customer traffic.

1456
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:12,880
We all AutoChlor, we we also believe

1457
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:13,800
that

1458
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:15,800
we're we would be a strong long-term

1459
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,160
addition to the Zionsville business

1460
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,320
community. We take pride in operating

1461
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,760
professional,

1462
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:22,560
well-maintained facilities, investing in

1463
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:24,560
our employees, and being responsible

1464
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,520
neighbors in the communities we serve

1465
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,360
nationwide.

1466
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:30,480
Personally, as an Indiana resident, I'm

1467
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,720
excited for AutoChlor to integrate into

1468
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:35,080
this community.

1469
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,560
Most importantly, the request is already

1470
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,200
specifically outlined within the zoning

1471
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:39,600
ordinance

1472
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,360
through the special exception process

1473
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:44,200
for I-2 uses within the I3 district. We

1474
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:46,920
believe our proposed use aligns close

1475
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,040
closely with both the intent of the

1476
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:50,960
original ordinance

1477
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:52,240
and

1478
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:53,800
the character of the surrounding area as

1479
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:55,120
it is today.

1480
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,280
We appreciate the opportunity

1481
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:02,790
to consider this tonight.

1482
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:04,840
If there's any questions regarding this

1483
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,320
or regarding our business business

1484
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:10,040
operation, I'll be glad to answer.

1485
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:11,480
>> Commissioner, are there any questions

1486
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:12,720
for the petitioner?

1487
00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:14,080
>> One question, you said blending of

1488
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,400
soaps. Um

1489
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:19,120
does that does that require any exhaust?

1490
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:20,080
>> Excuse me?

1491
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,320
>> The blending of soaps, is there any

1492
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:23,760
requirements of

1493
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:25,640
like exhaust fumes or anything coming

1494
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:26,640
off of that?

1495
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:27,720
>> No.

1496
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:28,520
nothing of that nature.

1497
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,680
>> No, it's essentially a

1498
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,200
These are concentrated products that are

1499
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:33,920
blended in stainless steel tanks with

1500
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,080
water that they come into. So, you're

1501
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:37,640
looking at an electric motor that's

1502
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:39,120
spinning a little propeller that's about

1503
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:40,360
like this.

1504
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:43,440
Um there's no exhaust fumes that we're pumping out of the building or

1505
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,760
anything like that.

1506
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,960
Great question.

1507
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,920
>> Um I'm

1508
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,320
going to note and I've had to remind

1509
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:53,120
myself in reading this petition a couple

1510
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,960
of times.

1511
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:58,200
I3 is heavier industrial than I2. I2

1512
00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:00,280
would permit this use, correct? There

1513
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,120
would not be any need to apply for a

1514
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:02,920
zoning or

1515
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:04,680
>> Yes, yes, yes, sir.

1516
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:05,080
>> Okay.

1517
00:55:05,080 --> 00:55:06,720
>> It's a permitted use in I2.

1518
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:07,680
>> So, I

1519
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,120
I've been trying to wrap my brain around

1520
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,160
why it got written that way.

1521
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,160
I haven't figured it out yet, but it has

1522
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,520
been. So, you're here and and thank you

1523
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:18,400
for your good nature.

1524
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:20,080
Uh but since you're here having to do

1525
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,400
this, um

1526
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,120
you've mentioned your organization has

1527
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:25,360
operated in Indiana.

1528
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:26,440
Um

1529
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,680
I'm not able to name whatever Indiana

1530
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:30,760
department would be concerned about you

1531
00:55:30,760 --> 00:55:33,360
guys pouring things into the wastewater

1532
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:35,680
treatment that you shouldn't be, but are

1533
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:37,120
uh

1534
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,720
are there any uh open

1535
00:55:39,720 --> 00:55:42,040
uh or recent investigations by the

1536
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:43,320
environmental authorities here in

1537
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:44,160
Indiana?

1538
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:45,080
>> So, one of the thing we've been in

1539
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:47,360
business almost 90 years. So, one of the

1540
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:48,560
thing we're based out of Mountain View,

1541
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,240
California. If you could imagine the

1542
00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:52,880
regulations in California are uh

1543
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,680
a little different. Um we've So, we've

1544
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:57,080
learned a lot along the way. Um and so,

1545
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,320
what I what I would share with you is is

1546
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:00,800
this would be our first manufacturing

1547
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,240
facility in the state of a production

1548
00:56:02,240 --> 00:56:04,240
facility in the state of Indiana.

1549
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:07,800
Um however, we we operate

1550
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:10,040
about 14 or 15 of these across the

1551
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,120
country in different locations. And one

1552
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:13,800
of the studies that we

1553
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,200
put a lot of work into working with the

1554
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,440
fire department. We've already been in

1555
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:18,320
contact with Ron Lips, the fire marshal

1556
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:21,360
here about MAQs and things such as that.

1557
00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,840
Um but we put the same practices that we

1558
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,840
put into our California manufacturing

1559
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:27,360
facilities, production facilities,

1560
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,800
whether it's secondary containment. We

1561
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:32,120
We're monitored by the EPA because it's

1562
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:34,600
a sanita- We have sanitizers that are in

1563
00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:36,440
every restaurant and kitchen that you go

1564
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,000
eat at today. Um we work with all those

1565
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,160
in every jurisdiction uh because number

1566
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:42,880
one, it's the right thing to do. Number

1567
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,280
two, it's required in their jurisdiction

1568
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,200
and what they actually oversee. So, as

1569
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:51,280
far as open cases or anything like that, is not the case. We haven't had

1570
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:52,760
anything on this side of the country at

1571
00:56:52,760 --> 00:56:55,040
all. Anything that we have had exposure

1572
00:56:55,040 --> 00:56:57,760
to would be California based. Um we

1573
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,600
treat all of our waste water before we before we dispose of it back into the

1574
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:03,680
system. Uh that's regulated and

1575
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:05,200
monitored where we have to turn it in

1576
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,160
every every month. Um and any any

1577
00:57:08,160 --> 00:57:10,320
situations where you're actually having

1578
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,440
to do more than that, you hire a waste

1579
00:57:12,440 --> 00:57:14,200
haul facility a waste haul company and

1580
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:15,600
they would pull that out. But the type

1581
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:18,440
of uh chemicals that you're producing or

1582
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,280
blending in these locations is the same

1583
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:22,480
chemicals you have in your house. So,

1584
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,080
when it spills on the floor and things

1585
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:26,240
like that, it's the same exact chemicals

1586
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,720
that they're using to clean L Maison or

1587
00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:30,800
Sweetgreen or wherever right here in

1588
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,640
this community. So, it's when we're

1589
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:34,040
talking about chemicals, these aren't

1590
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:36,320
we're not manufacturing new raw

1591
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:37,840
materials and extruding them out and

1592
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:39,320
things like that. It's really just your

1593
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,680
common commodities, soaps

1594
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,000
that you're having today. So, for us,

1595
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:46,520
the majority of our wastewater you're

1596
00:57:46,520 --> 00:57:50,480
testing anywhere between 7, 7.5, 8

1597
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,400
on the pH scale.

1598
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,720
>> Thank you. That's all I have for now.

1599
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:57,640
Will there be any outdoor storage?

1600
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:58,960
>> There will not.

1601
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,560
Completely contained within the current

1602
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:01,040
building.

1603
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:03,430
>> Okay.

1604
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:05,400
» I I was Jim, I don't know why we have

1605
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,160
right I guess I know why we have this

1606
00:58:09,160 --> 00:58:11,600
requirement for my three if it's a

1607
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,040
compliant in I2, they start to come in

1608
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,160
front of us. I understand

1609
00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,800
the thinking behind the the standard,

1610
00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,320
but yeah, this is this is pretty simple

1611
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,600
one for me. I think staff got it right.

1612
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:24,080
>> If it was

1613
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,360
this is

1614
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,000
entirely no bearing on him, but and I

1615
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:29,680
stumbled into this even frankly in the

1616
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:31,000
pre-meeting.

1617
00:58:31,000 --> 00:58:33,080
If this was I2 needing a special

1618
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:34,480
exception for something that was by

1619
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:36,160
right and I3,

1620
00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:37,520
I'd have a long list of things I'd

1621
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:38,840
require.

1622
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,080
But, that is this is the more intense

1623
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:43,760
industrial use.

1624
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:45,400
Um

1625
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,120
it's um

1626
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,600
you know, the EPA is is going to get

1627
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:51,640
involved if something's going going awry

1628
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,480
and I don't think anybody wants wants to

1629
00:58:54,480 --> 00:58:56,000
sign up for that.

1630
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,440
Um

1631
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,160
so, now that I've

1632
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,640
corrected my earlier comments to to

1633
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,720
before the meeting to staff, I'll I'll

1634
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,960
invite uh nobody's signed up to speak,

1635
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:13,030
but is there anyone online?

1636
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:14,960
IT?

1637
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,800
>> I'm sorry, one more time. I'm dealing

1638
00:59:16,800 --> 00:59:17,520
with other issues.

1639
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:19,800
>> Oh, I'm I'm uh is there anybody online

1640
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:21,360
wishing to speak on this petition?

1641
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:22,200
>> Um

1642
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,240
I do not believe so.

1643
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:25,240
There is no one.

1644
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:26,600
>> Okay.

1645
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,280
Um

1646
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:30,320
looks like I am closing, opening, and

1647
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:34,040
closing uh public comment at 7:33 p.m.

1648
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:38,510
Uh any further discussion?

1649
00:59:38,520 --> 00:59:40,120
» I'm in agreement.

1650
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,080
>> Uh it s- sounds like we're ready for a

1651
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,280
motion. Thank you all.

1652
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:45,560
Well, we'll see.

1653
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,360
>> I'll make a motion. I move that docket

1654
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,920
2026-05-SE,

1655
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,880
special exception to allow manufacturing

1656
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:56,600
of soaps and detergents at 10730

1657
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:58,720
Bennett Parkway, Zionsville, Indiana

1658
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:00,480
46077

1659
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:02,080
be approved as presented and described

1660
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:04,120
based on the findings in the staff

1661
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,000
report and staff recommendations,

1662
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:07,760
submitted findings of fact, and evidence

1663
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,400
submitted during the hearing.

1664
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:11,800
>> Do we have a second?

1665
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:12,520
>> Second.

1666
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:15,440
>> Thank you, Mr. Fedor. All in favor, I.

1667
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:16,600
>> I.

1668
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:17,280
>> Uh

1669
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,830
any opposed, same sign.

1670
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,000
Thank you all. Congratulations. Welcome

1671
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:26,070
to the neighborhood.

1672
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:30,040
Okay. On to the third petition and final

1673
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,000
petition of the evening.

1674
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:34,800
2026-06

1675
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,480
DSV, a development standards variance

1676
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,880
pursuant to section 194.082

1677
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:43,440
table 3 to reduce the 45-ft road

1678
01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:45,120
frontage requirement for property in the

1679
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,000
single-family residential R1 zoning

1680
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:51,840
district at 6724 West Stonegate Drive,

1681
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:53,200
Zionsville.

1682
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,600
Uh Jonathan, would you kick it off?

1683
01:00:56,600 --> 01:00:57,920
>> Yes, sir.

1684
01:00:57,920 --> 01:00:59,680
Um

1685
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,320
IT, if you can uh switch the TV to my

1686
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,400
screen, I think it'll be helpful in

1687
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:08,840
explaining the request.

1688
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,200
Um okay, so yeah, so the the petitioner

1689
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:13,360
is actually requesting a development

1690
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:16,240
standard variance um to reduce a

1691
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,840
standard um in 194.082.

1692
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,640
The The requires all of our rural zoning

1693
01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:26,600
properties to have a minimum road

1694
01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:29,400
frontage of 45 ft. The petitioner's

1695
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,840
request is to reduce that 45-ft

1696
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,680
road frontage requirement to reduce that

1697
01:01:35,680 --> 01:01:38,600
requirement down to 20 ft.

1698
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,280
Um and if approved,

1699
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:44,360
that would allow this parcel uh I

1700
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,360
apologize, I just zoomed in. That would

1701
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:48,160
allow this parcel

1702
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,640
um as part of his proposal

1703
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:53,840
to utilize

1704
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,080
what you see um

1705
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,720
which is this access easement. So, the

1706
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,560
20 ft, that's where that number comes

1707
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:00,920
from.

1708
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,000
This property is otherwise landlocked

1709
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,960
and as you can see on the screen, cannot

1710
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:09,080
produce 45 ft of road frontage in its

1711
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,600
current configuration.

1712
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,240
Um going through the staff report,

1713
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:14,720
you'll see

1714
01:02:14,720 --> 01:02:15,600
um

1715
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:18,640
you'll see two things that I'll I'll focus on. The secondary plat for

1716
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,240
Stonegate, um as well as the findings.

1717
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:23,960
Um the the petitioner's narrative does a

1718
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:25,880
good job of also summarizing this

1719
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:29,120
request. Um but to speak to the creation

1720
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,920
of the lot, um which I think is

1721
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:33,760
important in this case, um

1722
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:37,400
this lot was created in 2004

1723
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:38,960
utilizing

1724
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:40,480
um

1725
01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:41,960
what we call it an exemption in the

1726
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:43,720
zoning language,

1727
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:44,320
um

1728
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:46,360
which essentially says if your if your

1729
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,320
parcel your parent parcel existed in its

1730
01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:50,080
current configuration

1731
01:02:50,080 --> 01:02:52,440
as of January 1st, 1999, you're entitled

1732
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:55,640
to one lot split um without being

1733
01:02:55,640 --> 01:02:57,080
subject to the requirements of the

1734
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:58,920
subdivision control ordinance, right?

1735
01:02:58,920 --> 01:03:01,360
So, that's important. January 1st, 1999.

1736
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:03,320
And you'll see on the screen this

1737
01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:05,960
parcel, which was the leftover piece of

1738
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,000
the parent parcel.

1739
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:09,640
And this parcel, they used to be one.

1740
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:11,680
And in 2004, the owner at that time took

1741
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:13,760
advantage of that exemption

1742
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:15,680
and um

1743
01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:18,480
split essentially this parcel from the

1744
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:21,280
parent parcel, um thus creating what you

1745
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:22,720
see today.

1746
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,880
Um although it was done legally and

1747
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:27,320
recorded at the county through that

1748
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:30,560
exemption process, it's clear that they

1749
01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:32,000
did not take into account the

1750
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,400
development standards. And because they

1751
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,320
didn't have to go through the SEO review

1752
01:03:38,320 --> 01:03:41,400
and approval process that most

1753
01:03:41,400 --> 01:03:43,440
subdivisions have to do, right? Which is

1754
01:03:43,440 --> 01:03:45,000
through plan commission.

1755
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,320
Um and because the county doesn't have a

1756
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,120
mechanism to prohibit people from

1757
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:50,720
recording

1758
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,640
these types of lots, right? What occurs

1759
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:55,480
is people take this exemption, they they

1760
01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,000
think, "I'm exempt from the SEO." So

1761
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,040
they just go and they record an um

1762
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:01,400
an updated legal description at the

1763
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:03,800
county, which is how the lot is created.

1764
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:06,200
So it's legally created, however, it is

1765
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,360
non-conforming, right?

1766
01:04:08,360 --> 01:04:11,120
Um and so that's what occurred here. And

1767
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:12,800
over time, I guess ownership changes

1768
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:15,240
hands, um and the petitioner is now the

1769
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,000
owner of this property, um although he

1770
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:19,400
did not create the situation.

1771
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:23,080
So, jumping uh to the again, to the

1772
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:24,800
proposal,

1773
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:26,000
um

1774
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:27,160
he wants

1775
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:29,640
a variance to reduce the 45-ft road

1776
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,720
frontage requirement to 20 ft. And if

1777
01:04:31,720 --> 01:04:33,280
you read through the documents, the

1778
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,720
intent, um again, is to utilize this

1779
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:40,320
access easement that is owned

1780
01:04:40,320 --> 01:04:43,400
by the Stonegate HOA.

1781
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,200
Um and on the recorded plat, it's

1782
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:51,480
clearly marked for use for 117 and 116.

1783
01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,280
But the petitioner has provided

1784
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,440
documentation that shows, um

1785
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:58,000
in his opinion,

1786
01:04:58,000 --> 01:04:59,560
that he has the right to utilize this

1787
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:00,960
access easement.

1788
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:02,440
And so that's the request. The request

1789
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:04,360
before you is to reduce it from 45 ft to

1790
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,720
20 ft. It's ultimately the petitioner's

1791
01:05:06,720 --> 01:05:08,600
responsibility if the request is

1792
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:10,720
granted, right? It's the petitioner's

1793
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,920
responsibility to identify where that 20

1794
01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,440
ft comes from, right?

1795
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:18,640
Um so the request before you is only

1796
01:05:18,640 --> 01:05:22,080
focusing on the reduction of 45 ft down

1797
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:25,880
to 20 ft. Um approval of this variance

1798
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:28,960
request does not grant the permission

1799
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:31,800
the petitioner the right to utilize this

1800
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:33,680
access easement, all right? It's going

1801
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:35,280
to be a separate conversation that will

1802
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,440
have to occur between the petitioner and

1803
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:39,960
Stonegate HOA, okay? So we're only

1804
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:43,120
focusing on reducing the 45 ft from 45

1805
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,000
ft down to 20 ft.

1806
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:46,240
Um and then it's the petitioner's

1807
01:05:46,240 --> 01:05:47,920
responsibility to identify where that 20

1808
01:05:47,920 --> 01:05:50,320
ft comes from, okay?

1809
01:05:50,320 --> 01:05:51,680
Jumping to

1810
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,800
the um if you look on page four, you'll

1811
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:55,240
see the development standards again,

1812
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:58,920
table three, 45 ft uh in all districts

1813
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,000
including this one, um the petitioner

1814
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:02,400
provided a

1815
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:04,760
um a good exhibit uh you'll see on page

1816
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:05,760
four

1817
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:08,560
essentially that shows his parcel and uh

1818
01:06:08,560 --> 01:06:11,120
the block A, which is the utility and

1819
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,880
access easement. Um a good exhibit that

1820
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:15,120
shows

1821
01:06:15,120 --> 01:06:17,560
how it relates to this parcel.

1822
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:21,000
Page five is a uh is a screenshot, a

1823
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:22,960
snippet of the recorded plat, and you'll

1824
01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:26,000
note on the recorded plat um

1825
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,120
that it clearly states block A, common

1826
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,000
access and utility easement for lots 116

1827
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:33,040
and 117. There is no mention of this

1828
01:06:33,040 --> 01:06:36,440
parcel. Um however, there there's other

1829
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:38,320
conversations to be had as as to whether

1830
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,480
or not this parcel can actually utilize

1831
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:42,840
the access easement.

1832
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:45,360
Skipping to

1833
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:47,240
the findings.

1834
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:48,440
With a development standard variance, we

1835
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:50,320
have to answer three findings.

1836
01:06:50,320 --> 01:06:52,520
The grant will or will not be injurious

1837
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:54,120
to public health and safety, morals and

1838
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:55,400
general welfare welfare of the

1839
01:06:55,400 --> 01:06:57,600
community. Uh number two the use or

1840
01:06:57,600 --> 01:06:59,280
value of the adjacent of the area

1841
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:01,360
adjacent to the property uh included in

1842
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:02,720
the variance will not be affected in a

1843
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,400
substantially adverse manner. And number

1844
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:05,800
three, strict application of terms of

1845
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:07,640
the zoning ordinance would or would not

1846
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:08,880
result in unnecessary hardship in the

1847
01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:10,640
use of property.

1848
01:07:10,640 --> 01:07:13,240
Staff's position on item number one, uh

1849
01:07:13,240 --> 01:07:15,320
we agree with the petitioner. Uh if the

1850
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,240
request is granted, they're still

1851
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,280
required to receive approval of an uh

1852
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:20,560
what we call an IOP, an improvement

1853
01:07:20,560 --> 01:07:22,720
location permit. Um this ensures the

1854
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:24,240
development of this site will comply

1855
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:26,200
with water, sewer, building code, fire

1856
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,160
requirements, etc. prior to issuing the

1857
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:30,760
certificate of occupancy.

1858
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:33,240
All these standards are set in place,

1859
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,040
uh intended to protect public health,

1860
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,800
safety, and the general welfare of the

1861
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,440
community. Um additionally, which this

1862
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:41,320
has since changed, but at the time of

1863
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:45,560
this writing, I had not heard from um

1864
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:47,280
any of the members of the public. We

1865
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:48,760
have since obviously heard from members

1866
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,920
of the public today.

1867
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:52,520
Uh but at this time we had not, and so

1868
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:54,760
for the reasons listed uh in our staff

1869
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:57,040
report, we believe this criterion was

1870
01:07:57,040 --> 01:07:59,800
met. Um and I want to take this time, uh

1871
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:01,400
before I forget, I just want to point

1872
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,200
out um

1873
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,120
I received several letters. Um some of

1874
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:06,800
them are attached to the agenda. I had

1875
01:08:06,800 --> 01:08:08,360
time to put them digitally on the

1876
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:09,400
agenda.

1877
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:10,400
Um

1878
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:11,600
some of them I did not have the

1879
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:13,360
opportunity to put on on the digital

1880
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,040
agenda. However, all of them you all

1881
01:08:16,040 --> 01:08:18,520
were provided copies with. Um

1882
01:08:18,520 --> 01:08:19,799
so they're in front of you if you want

1883
01:08:19,799 --> 01:08:21,359
to take a look at those.

1884
01:08:21,359 --> 01:08:24,080
Um jumping to item number two,

1885
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:25,839
the use or value of the area adjacent to

1886
01:08:25,839 --> 01:08:28,160
the property included in the variance

1887
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:29,160
will not be affected in any

1888
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,080
substantially adverse manner. Uh once

1889
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,799
again, staff agrees with the petitioner.

1890
01:08:33,799 --> 01:08:35,400
Uh the property will be developed with a

1891
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:37,680
single-family residence, uh which from a

1892
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:39,480
use standpoint is the same as all the

1893
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:41,240
surrounding land uses.

1894
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,440
Um developing the site would actually

1895
01:08:43,440 --> 01:08:46,000
add value to the property.

1896
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:47,720
For these reasons, we don't anticipate

1897
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,240
adjoining properties being adversely

1898
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:50,680
impacted.

1899
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,520
Additionally, again, um this is dated

1900
01:08:53,520 --> 01:08:56,080
because we have heard uh we heard from

1901
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:57,680
neighbors on Monday and and neighbors

1902
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,000
today, but at the time of this writing

1903
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:00,799
we had not heard from neighbors.

1904
01:09:00,799 --> 01:09:03,319
Um and so for those reasons, we believe

1905
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:05,720
that criterion was met.

1906
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:07,160
Item number three,

1907
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,520
uh strict application of the zoning

1908
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:10,160
ordinance would or would not result in

1909
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:11,400
unnecessary hardship in the use of the

1910
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:12,480
property.

1911
01:09:12,480 --> 01:09:14,799
Uh staff, we agree with the petitioner.

1912
01:09:14,799 --> 01:09:16,120
Strict application of the zoning

1913
01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:17,759
ordinance will result in unnecessary

1914
01:09:17,759 --> 01:09:19,839
hardship in the use of this property. Uh

1915
01:09:19,839 --> 01:09:22,160
again, unnecessary hardship defined as

1916
01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:24,920
all relevant factors when taken together

1917
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:27,600
indicate the land involved cannot yield

1918
01:09:27,600 --> 01:09:29,560
a reasonable return because of unique

1919
01:09:29,560 --> 01:09:31,359
set of circumstances.

1920
01:09:31,359 --> 01:09:32,920
A claim of unnecessary hardship

1921
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:34,400
justifying the grant of a variance

1922
01:09:34,400 --> 01:09:35,839
cannot be based on a self-created

1923
01:09:35,839 --> 01:09:37,040
condition.

1924
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:38,680
Mere showing of economic loss is not

1925
01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:39,920
sufficient.

1926
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,319
In this case, the zoning ordinance

1927
01:09:41,319 --> 01:09:43,799
allows rural properties to be split and

1928
01:09:43,799 --> 01:09:45,560
recorded without a zoning review to

1929
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:47,240
confirm the resulting properties meet

1930
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,359
development standards.

1931
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:50,880
This is the case

1932
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:52,520
uh for this petitioner. Again, it was

1933
01:09:52,520 --> 01:09:55,440
done prior to um

1934
01:09:55,440 --> 01:09:57,040
in 2004.

1935
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,280
And again, based on the above analysis,

1936
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:01,160
we believe this is not This is not

1937
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:02,520
believed to be a self-created condition,

1938
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:03,920
and the owner is facing an actual

1939
01:10:03,920 --> 01:10:05,920
hardship in the use of the property.

1940
01:10:05,920 --> 01:10:07,640
Without the requested variance to reduce

1941
01:10:07,640 --> 01:10:10,120
the 45-ft road frontage, this subject

1942
01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:11,680
parcel cannot be developed in its

1943
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,560
current configuration.

1944
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:15,000
For these reasons, staff believes this

1945
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:18,000
is This criterion was met.

1946
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:19,520
Because we found in the affirmative for

1947
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:21,080
all three criteria,

1948
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:23,040
uh staff's position is favorable of the

1949
01:10:23,040 --> 01:10:24,800
requested variance reducing road

1950
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:27,680
frontage from 45 ft to 20 ft um as

1951
01:10:27,680 --> 01:10:30,520
depicted um on the recorded plat for the

1952
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,560
Stonegate subdivision.

1953
01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:34,800
Uh again, a sample motion is provided.

1954
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:36,120
Um happy to answer any questions you

1955
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:38,960
have. Um I will note that

1956
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:40,880
we have provided a condition of

1957
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:42,120
approval.

1958
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:43,600
Um

1959
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,000
the condition being part as part of

1960
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,520
their submittal for the IOP,

1961
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,760
uh the petitioner is required to provide

1962
01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,360
documentation that clearly

1963
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,600
shows they have approval from the

1964
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:57,240
easement owner

1965
01:10:57,240 --> 01:10:59,240
to utilize block A as access for the

1966
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:00,960
parcel. That's the one condition we've

1967
01:11:00,960 --> 01:11:02,120
attached

1968
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:03,240
um

1969
01:11:03,240 --> 01:11:05,920
to be submitted alongside their building

1970
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:08,760
permit when that time comes if that is

1971
01:11:08,760 --> 01:11:10,600
uh if the variance is approved. Happy to

1972
01:11:10,600 --> 01:11:13,870
answer any questions you have.

1973
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:15,400
» I'm sure there's any questions for

1974
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,110
staff.

1975
01:11:19,120 --> 01:11:20,760
Well, I'm I'm going to jump in with one

1976
01:11:20,760 --> 01:11:23,520
but it may be more for our legal team.

1977
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:25,720
It feels like I'm being asked to

1978
01:11:25,720 --> 01:11:28,480
consider a hypothetical.

1979
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:30,400
If this person has legal access to the

1980
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:34,320
property, would I allow a road frontage

1981
01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:36,240
uh reduction?

1982
01:11:36,240 --> 01:11:38,440
Is it proper that we consider this

1983
01:11:38,440 --> 01:11:39,800
variance request before that's

1984
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:44,870
established?

1985
01:11:44,880 --> 01:11:48,520
» Yeah, I believe that's a uh

1986
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,240
separate legal matter. The

1987
01:11:51,240 --> 01:11:52,040
uh

1988
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,960
public and owners have a right to

1989
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,040
request a variance and the board's job

1990
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:58,240
is to just consider the

1991
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:00,280
uh with consider the evidence within the

1992
01:12:00,280 --> 01:12:03,800
confines of of the variance request.

1993
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:06,600
>> Uh then I will proceed contemplating a

1994
01:12:06,600 --> 01:12:09,520
hypothetical. Thank you.

1995
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:12,600
Uh I would invite the petitioner to uh

1996
01:12:12,600 --> 01:12:14,040
come up and uh

1997
01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:16,160
speak. If you would state your name and

1998
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:17,200
address

1999
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:18,800
and if both of you speaking, name and

2000
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:24,270
address for both.

2001
01:12:24,280 --> 01:12:25,960
» Um my name is Morgan Reese. I'm with

2002
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:27,800
Innovative Engineering and Consulting

2003
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:29,600
and I'm here with the petitioner Eric

2004
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:30,560
Meary.

2005
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:31,240
>> Um

2006
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:33,720
my my name is Eric Meary. I'm 441 North

2007
01:12:33,720 --> 01:12:36,400
Park, um Indianapolis, Indiana. Used to

2008
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:38,120
live in Zionsville since I was two,

2009
01:12:38,120 --> 01:12:52,670
however. So, just recently moved.

2010
01:12:52,680 --> 01:12:54,040
» Uh so, first I want to thank you all

2011
01:12:54,040 --> 01:12:56,400
this evening for allowing us to uh

2012
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,120
present our petition for the property

2013
01:12:58,120 --> 01:13:02,960
located at 6724 West Stonegate Drive. Um

2014
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,080
and then so starting just with a

2015
01:13:05,080 --> 01:13:07,120
property overview this larger picture is

2016
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:09,400
just showing where and Zionsville this

2017
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:11,120
property is located obviously within the

2018
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:13,560
Stonegate subdivision to the north is

2019
01:13:13,560 --> 01:13:15,800
the Stonegate Elementary School and then

2020
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,120
the Zionsville West Middle School.

2021
01:13:18,120 --> 01:13:20,200
And you can see from the aerial view

2022
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:22,360
that this lot as Jonathan said is

2023
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:24,280
essentially landlocked aside from the

2024
01:13:24,280 --> 01:13:27,160
20-ft access and utility easement. This

2025
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,880
was indicated as block A in the section

2026
01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:31,960
five

2027
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:36,800
Stonegate section five uh plat and we

2028
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:39,600
have historically he the petitioner has

2029
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:42,840
historically used this block A as the

2030
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,440
ingress and egress for the site.

2031
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:48,720
Um again as Jonathan said the variance

2032
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:50,840
of development standards request we have

2033
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,040
is in

2034
01:13:52,040 --> 01:13:56,120
relation to section 194.082

2035
01:13:56,120 --> 01:13:58,960
specifically table three which requires

2036
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,560
45-ft of road frontage for our site but

2037
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:04,400
given the circumstances where on we can

2038
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:07,200
only get 20 ft and that's what we're

2039
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:10,750
requesting tonight.

2040
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:12,960
The practical difficulty here arises

2041
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,640
primarily from the platting of Stonegate

2042
01:14:15,640 --> 01:14:18,880
section five. Um I have a document which

2043
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,920
was also in the submittal for the

2044
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:23,560
supplement to an amendment and in

2045
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:26,280
article X I'm just going to read part of

2046
01:14:26,280 --> 01:14:29,080
it. Um and this was given to the

2047
01:14:29,080 --> 01:14:31,680
petitioner from the president of the

2048
01:14:31,680 --> 01:14:32,560
Stonegate HOA.

2049
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:35,480
>> developer of the Stonegate HOA

2050
01:14:35,480 --> 01:14:37,600
um and so it says as a condition to a

2051
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:39,640
willingness on the part of developer to

2052
01:14:39,640 --> 01:14:42,160
permit the added parcel and I will note

2053
01:14:42,160 --> 01:14:44,960
added parcel is this site and it's

2054
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:46,800
indicated by there is a legal

2055
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:49,000
description at the end, um which clearly

2056
01:14:49,000 --> 01:14:52,600
defines added parcel is this site.

2057
01:14:52,600 --> 01:14:54,640
So, to permit added parcel to enjoy the

2058
01:14:54,640 --> 01:14:58,160
use and benefit of block A drive as an

2059
01:14:58,160 --> 01:15:00,800
exclusive means of vehicular ingress and

2060
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:03,120
egress through the development, the

2061
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:05,320
owners of the added parcel hereby agree

2062
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:07,720
to subject the use and development of

2063
01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:10,040
the added parcel to limiting ingress and

2064
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:12,320
egress to and from the added parcels to

2065
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:14,760
block A drive, restricting development

2066
01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:16,760
of the added parcel to no more than one

2067
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:19,040
single-family dwelling and related

2068
01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:21,560
outbuildings and improvements, and the

2069
01:15:21,560 --> 01:15:23,120
powers and authorities reserved to the

2070
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:24,760
developer

2071
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:27,680
in article five, um

2072
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:30,800
as if the added parcel constituted a lot

2073
01:15:30,800 --> 01:15:33,440
within the development. And so, from

2074
01:15:33,440 --> 01:15:37,800
this document, we feel that this It was

2075
01:15:37,800 --> 01:15:40,160
the intent the entire time to have this

2076
01:15:40,160 --> 01:15:43,640
lot part of Stonegate section five. Um

2077
01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:46,160
however, in the recorded plat, it got

2078
01:15:46,160 --> 01:15:49,160
left off for whatever reason.

2079
01:15:49,160 --> 01:15:50,840
Um and so,

2080
01:15:50,840 --> 01:15:54,360
this block A is the only way for Eric to

2081
01:15:54,360 --> 01:15:56,320
be able to get onto his site. There's no

2082
01:15:56,320 --> 01:15:59,400
other alternative access. And so, as

2083
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:01,400
Jonathan said, that's why we're in this

2084
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:04,120
situation, and the hardship was created

2085
01:16:04,120 --> 01:16:09,870
not by the petitioner, but by Stonegate.

2086
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:12,600
So, in conclusion, um we are requesting

2087
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,560
this to be able to build a single-family

2088
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:17,560
home consistent with the character of

2089
01:16:17,560 --> 01:16:19,440
the Stonegate subdivision.

2090
01:16:19,440 --> 01:16:22,040
Um and we

2091
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:23,480
will have

2092
01:16:23,480 --> 01:16:26,760
be having strict adherence to the 45-ft

2093
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,600
um severely limits the available usage

2094
01:16:29,600 --> 01:16:32,640
of this lot. Uh it's 1 acre, and so it's

2095
01:16:32,640 --> 01:16:35,200
larger than the other surrounding lots

2096
01:16:35,200 --> 01:16:37,400
in Stonegate that

2097
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,680
are nearby. Um and so, and the Finally,

2098
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:43,880
the hardship was created outside the

2099
01:16:43,880 --> 01:16:45,880
petitioner's control.

2100
01:16:45,880 --> 01:16:47,600
Uh with that, I'll open it to any

2101
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,480
questions.

2102
01:16:50,480 --> 01:16:52,040
>> Thank you, Commissioner. Do you have any

2103
01:16:52,040 --> 01:16:54,320
questions for the petitioner?

2104
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,750
>> At this time, no.

2105
01:16:57,760 --> 01:16:59,800
» Okay. I would invite you all to take a

2106
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:02,040
seat. I think we have several or three

2107
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:04,440
folks that are signed up to speak.

2108
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:07,480
Um I'll note again, as Jonathan did, we

2109
01:17:07,480 --> 01:17:08,800
have uh

2110
01:17:08,800 --> 01:17:11,120
some letters of remonstrance in before

2111
01:17:11,120 --> 01:17:13,960
us. Some of those people also appear on

2112
01:17:13,960 --> 01:17:15,960
the list to speak, which is their right,

2113
01:17:15,960 --> 01:17:18,000
but not all of them. So, um if you

2114
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,200
haven't had a chance to read those

2115
01:17:19,200 --> 01:17:21,680
letters, uh please take a moment.

2116
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:24,760
Um I'll invite Maureen Murphy uh to

2117
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:32,070
speak.

2118
01:17:32,080 --> 01:17:33,200
» If you'd state your name and address for

2119
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:33,800
the record, please.

2120
01:17:33,800 --> 01:17:35,760
>> Yeah, sure. Maureen Murphy, and I live

2121
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:37,600
at 6722

2122
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,800
West Stonegate Drive, Zionsville,

2123
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,720
Indiana 46077.

2124
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,400
Would it be possible, Jonathan, um

2125
01:17:45,400 --> 01:17:48,040
just to pull up where I live

2126
01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,920
relative to um

2127
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:52,400
Eric's

2128
01:17:52,400 --> 01:17:54,120
Eric Murray's lot? Cuz it's a different

2129
01:17:54,120 --> 01:18:00,470
Eric.

2130
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:02,040
» Um IT, if you could switch to my

2131
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:03,760
computer.

2132
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:05,600
Thank you.

2133
01:18:05,600 --> 01:18:07,790
Here.

2134
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:08,640
So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I

2135
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:10,680
believe the parcel highlighted is your

2136
01:18:10,680 --> 01:18:11,080
parcel.

2137
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:14,280
>> That That's 6722, um

2138
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:17,000
and then my neighbor, Eric Pollen, is

2139
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:20,120
the other neighbor in Stonegate who

2140
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:22,240
shares that um

2141
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:24,200
that Stonegate-owned uh

2142
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:26,960
driveway. We use that, too, uh enter and

2143
01:18:26,960 --> 01:18:28,680
exit our

2144
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:29,520
um

2145
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,200
driveways and garages.

2146
01:18:31,200 --> 01:18:33,560
Um and I and I

2147
01:18:33,560 --> 01:18:36,240
just on the the hardship factor, I mean,

2148
01:18:36,240 --> 01:18:37,400
I think it's

2149
01:18:37,400 --> 01:18:39,040
fairly clear. You take a look at

2150
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:41,320
Stonegate, it's a master plan community.

2151
01:18:41,320 --> 01:18:44,200
Those are our the lines of Stonegate

2152
01:18:44,200 --> 01:18:45,520
and, you know, they don't have these

2153
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,880
kind of random lots in and out. Um

2154
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:54,840
and uh when when we purchased our lot

2155
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:58,720
um I believe Mr. Murray's lot was zoned

2156
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,000
R3.

2157
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:01,960
Um so, we were

2158
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:03,360
fairly sure that there wasn't going to

2159
01:19:03,360 --> 01:19:05,240
be a house built behind us.

2160
01:19:05,240 --> 01:19:07,080
Um so,

2161
01:19:07,080 --> 01:19:09,760
yeah, just to summarize, um

2162
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,960
I'm opposing the variance request uh 45

2163
01:19:12,960 --> 01:19:15,080
ft of frontage um

2164
01:19:15,080 --> 01:19:16,600
which is uh

2165
01:19:16,600 --> 01:19:18,120
you know, standard

2166
01:19:18,120 --> 01:19:21,000
uh is for um

2167
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:21,680
uh

2168
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,400
safety and independent access of of

2169
01:19:24,400 --> 01:19:25,800
residences.

2170
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:29,240
The application is asking for a 20-ft um

2171
01:19:29,240 --> 01:19:31,840
access easement. Um I do want to note

2172
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:34,440
that the actual usable drive, and again,

2173
01:19:34,440 --> 01:19:36,120
I know this goes to the hypothetical,

2174
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:38,000
actual usable drive, I measured it

2175
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:40,600
several times last week, it's 11 ft is

2176
01:19:40,600 --> 01:19:44,000
the driveway that between my lot and um

2177
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:47,080
the Pollans' lot. Um you know, it does

2178
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,040
kind of fan out as you get to the curb

2179
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:50,800
just to have that nice kind of curved

2180
01:19:50,800 --> 01:19:53,560
curb thing, but it's an 11-ft driveway.

2181
01:19:53,560 --> 01:19:54,160
Um

2182
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:56,320
Stonegate designed that for two

2183
01:19:56,320 --> 01:19:58,240
residences to share.

2184
01:19:58,240 --> 01:19:59,520
Um

2185
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,080
and

2186
01:20:01,080 --> 01:20:02,440
uh you know, we're talking about adding

2187
01:20:02,440 --> 01:20:04,560
a third one.

2188
01:20:04,560 --> 01:20:06,320
Um

2189
01:20:06,320 --> 01:20:08,840
that shared access is

2190
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:11,280
not designed for that. I'm not really

2191
01:20:11,280 --> 01:20:13,520
sure how a um

2192
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:15,400
you know, fire truck gets in there or

2193
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:16,880
all the sorts of things you guys worry

2194
01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:18,440
about with with zoning and why there are

2195
01:20:18,440 --> 01:20:20,080
those laws.

2196
01:20:20,080 --> 01:20:21,400
Um

2197
01:20:21,400 --> 01:20:23,840
there has also not been any clear

2198
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:25,880
explanation of how

2199
01:20:25,880 --> 01:20:27,800
trash service would work, deliveries,

2200
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:30,160
utility work. Um you know, I'm thinking

2201
01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,000
about where's the mailbox and just all

2202
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:34,600
the things that are already uh

2203
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,000
going on in that 11-ft drive.

2204
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:39,800
Um obviously, construction will be very

2205
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:44,120
disruptive uh to our existing homes, not

2206
01:20:44,120 --> 01:20:46,000
entering our garage. As you can see,

2207
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:47,680
we're on kind of we call this little

2208
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:49,520
eyebrow cul-de-sac. It's one-way for

2209
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:52,200
two-way traffic, a lot of street parking

2210
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:54,600
there or any um

2211
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,240
you know, there's not much room to

2212
01:20:56,240 --> 01:20:57,680
maneuver there.

2213
01:20:57,680 --> 01:20:59,400
Um

2214
01:20:59,400 --> 01:21:01,080
already narrow.

2215
01:21:01,080 --> 01:21:02,560
And yeah, this is not a small

2216
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:05,320
adjustment. It's a request to uh develop

2217
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:06,840
which is what is a fundamentally a

2218
01:21:06,840 --> 01:21:09,840
non-conforming landlocked lot um that

2219
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:12,240
lacks any proper frontage uh

2220
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:16,600
depends entirely on shared access and um

2221
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:17,600
uh

2222
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:20,080
doesn't meet the basic uh standards. So,

2223
01:21:20,080 --> 01:21:23,160
I respectfully ask that the board um

2224
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,600
uh decline the variance. Thanks.

2225
01:21:25,600 --> 01:21:27,400
>> Thank you.

2226
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:41,270
Um Mr. Jeff Horton.

2227
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:42,320
» Thank you.

2228
01:21:42,320 --> 01:21:44,320
I'm here representing my wife and I, and

2229
01:21:44,320 --> 01:21:47,480
we reside at 6101 Morton Road, and

2230
01:21:47,480 --> 01:21:47,800
that's

2231
01:21:47,800 --> 01:21:48,720
>> Full name, please.

2232
01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:50,080
>> Uh Jeffrey Horton.

2233
01:21:50,080 --> 01:21:50,600
>> Thank you.

2234
01:21:50,600 --> 01:21:52,440
>> Did I not say that? Sorry. Jeff and

2235
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:55,840
Joyce Horton uh residing at 6101 Morton

2236
01:21:55,840 --> 01:21:59,280
Road in Zionsville. We're uh

2237
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,520
two spots uh spots down uh from the uh

2238
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:04,160
space there.

2239
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:06,480
And do me one favor, Jonathan. Just zoom

2240
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:08,960
out one touch.

2241
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,320
So, we can see.

2242
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:13,440
Yeah, that that's okay. So,

2243
01:22:13,440 --> 01:22:15,240
are you Okay, so you're on my property

2244
01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:17,560
there. And And for the minutes, uh we

2245
01:22:17,560 --> 01:22:19,440
weren't included in the digital, but I

2246
01:22:19,440 --> 01:22:22,680
did turn in a uh letter against it uh

2247
01:22:22,680 --> 01:22:24,480
from Joan Brown this afternoon. She

2248
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:27,080
chose uh didn't have the ability to come

2249
01:22:27,080 --> 01:22:29,760
with us tonight, but uh, it is included

2250
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,520
in the packet as Jonathan explained to

2251
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:33,360
us, so.

2252
01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,040
Um, our biggest complaint is that it's

2253
01:22:36,040 --> 01:22:37,160
the

2254
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:39,080
uh, putting a house there becomes

2255
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:41,400
inconsistent with the property lines as

2256
01:22:41,400 --> 01:22:43,000
you can see and Marine mentioned the

2257
01:22:43,000 --> 01:22:45,720
Stonegate subdivision has a very clear

2258
01:22:45,720 --> 01:22:49,440
uh, outline and predetermined shape. And

2259
01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:51,720
by putting a house at that position at

2260
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,360
the back of our property, so we all face

2261
01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:56,680
Morton Road, which is you're looking to

2262
01:22:56,680 --> 01:22:58,880
the map is to the left. Putting a house

2263
01:22:58,880 --> 01:23:01,640
there could potentially disrupt our use

2264
01:23:01,640 --> 01:23:04,440
of our rule uh,

2265
01:23:04,440 --> 01:23:07,120
property there that is very few left in

2266
01:23:07,120 --> 01:23:08,440
Zion's build. What we're going to take

2267
01:23:08,440 --> 01:23:11,000
use of it as long as we have it, so.

2268
01:23:11,000 --> 01:23:12,240
Uh, that's

2269
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:15,360
uh, a part of our biggest uh, complaint.

2270
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:17,200
Uh, I do feel the comment on the

2271
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:20,160
property value was self-inflicted. If

2272
01:23:20,160 --> 01:23:22,480
you look at the boundaries of Stonegate,

2273
01:23:22,480 --> 01:23:25,640
this is clearly outside of it. It's it's

2274
01:23:25,640 --> 01:23:27,760
an attempt to be part of Stonegate

2275
01:23:27,760 --> 01:23:30,200
without paying the dues and the fees to

2276
01:23:30,200 --> 01:23:32,040
be in the property values to be in

2277
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:34,200
Stonegate, so it's the old saying

2278
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:35,600
sometimes if it looks too good to be

2279
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:38,520
true, it probably is. Uh, it's too good

2280
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,120
to be true to try to get Stonegate

2281
01:23:41,120 --> 01:23:43,480
address and access with a lump like

2282
01:23:43,480 --> 01:23:44,640
that.

2283
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:46,760
Um,

2284
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:51,840
the only other comment uh,

2285
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:53,560
to to reiterate

2286
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,960
the use of our properties could be

2287
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,280
affected by a house back there. Uh, I

2288
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:58,520
know the neighbors to us have some

2289
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:00,760
animals and stuff and

2290
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:01,720
uh,

2291
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:03,840
we all use our property in varying ways,

2292
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:05,440
so it a house doesn't fit there

2293
01:24:05,440 --> 01:24:08,840
according to our opinion.

2294
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,480
>> Thank you, Mr. Orton.

2295
01:24:11,480 --> 01:24:13,720
It looks like I've got one more signed

2296
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,480
up to speak in person and forgive me if

2297
01:24:16,480 --> 01:24:19,000
I get your last name wrong, but Mr. Bob

2298
01:24:19,000 --> 01:24:20,800
Einters.

2299
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:22,680
If Would state your name and address,

2300
01:24:22,680 --> 01:24:24,960
please?

2301
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:29,640
>> Bob Winters, 6001 Morton Road.

2302
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:31,560
I first like to thank all of you for

2303
01:24:31,560 --> 01:24:33,400
taking the time

2304
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:35,880
and the multiple hours and God knows

2305
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:37,960
through the year how much time you spent

2306
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,480
here, but I appreciate it.

2307
01:24:40,480 --> 01:24:44,880
I have lived at my home, my wife and I

2308
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:47,200
and our then six children

2309
01:24:47,200 --> 01:24:51,040
since 1987. So, we predated Stonegate.

2310
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:53,720
We of course predated the Early Learning

2311
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:54,840
Center.

2312
01:24:54,840 --> 01:24:57,040
We predated the apartments that stand in

2313
01:24:57,040 --> 01:25:01,680
front of us. And I and I will say that

2314
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:03,480
we actually supported

2315
01:25:03,480 --> 01:25:05,720
Stonegate with some reservations, but

2316
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:09,280
did not object to it and supported uh

2317
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:12,760
Dr. Wright's and his attempts there.

2318
01:25:12,760 --> 01:25:16,520
We in fact supported the building of the

2319
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:18,520
Early Learning Center. A little bit

2320
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:21,000
chagrined that the tunnel of trees that

2321
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,200
I took care of for more than 20 years

2322
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:25,680
disappeared despite the

2323
01:25:25,680 --> 01:25:27,960
promises of the school board, but that's

2324
01:25:27,960 --> 01:25:30,760
for another topic for another time.

2325
01:25:30,760 --> 01:25:33,320
And I have some mixed feelings about

2326
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,320
this particular

2327
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:36,600
property

2328
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:39,760
that has been proposed.

2329
01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:42,560
First, I actually disagree that

2330
01:25:42,560 --> 01:25:45,800
it's going to help my property value. I

2331
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:47,880
will say I dearly appreciate having

2332
01:25:47,880 --> 01:25:49,960
million-dollar homes in my back three

2333
01:25:49,960 --> 01:25:53,760
acres, right? Abutting mine, but having

2334
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:55,960
a home right there, it's just

2335
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:58,720
incongruous. It's anomalous

2336
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:00,280
and I don't see how it's going to help

2337
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:02,360
my property value and if anything, I

2338
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,440
think when it comes to selling our

2339
01:26:04,440 --> 01:26:07,040
property, it may in fact hurt our

2340
01:26:07,040 --> 01:26:10,080
property value. So, I'm concerned there.

2341
01:26:10,080 --> 01:26:14,600
I'm concerned as well that they never came and talked to me

2342
01:26:14,600 --> 01:26:17,120
about putting the property

2343
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:19,400
uh The school board talked to me about

2344
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:21,320
putting the property. Uh Stonegate came

2345
01:26:21,320 --> 01:26:22,960
to me and talked to me before they put

2346
01:26:22,960 --> 01:26:24,200
the property.

2347
01:26:24,200 --> 01:26:24,800
Uh

2348
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:28,400
I have no idea uh what uh will happen. I

2349
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,920
have sheep and goats uh on those back a

2350
01:26:30,920 --> 01:26:34,040
couple of acres and have for years and years.

2351
01:26:34,040 --> 01:26:35,120
Um

2352
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:36,640
but um

2353
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:39,200
but but that Yeah, I just I just not so

2354
01:26:39,200 --> 01:26:42,560
sure that it fits as uh

2355
01:26:42,560 --> 01:26:45,440
the former speaker was uh saying um that

2356
01:26:45,440 --> 01:26:47,640
not sure it really fits with

2357
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:50,240
the um intended use of the land or at

2358
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:52,760
least as it's being used currently. I

2359
01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:54,040
will say I'm pretty laissez-faire when

2360
01:26:54,040 --> 01:26:56,560
it comes to uh a property owners uh

2361
01:26:56,560 --> 01:27:00,360
owners rights. I'm usually um

2362
01:27:00,360 --> 01:27:02,440
feel that you do what you You do what

2363
01:27:02,440 --> 01:27:04,320
you want with your property. I perhaps

2364
01:27:04,320 --> 01:27:06,240
don't feel as strongly as my colleagues

2365
01:27:06,240 --> 01:27:08,640
uh being against this, but uh for the

2366
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:10,480
reasons I've just mentioned, it just

2367
01:27:10,480 --> 01:27:12,720
doesn't fit. Uh I will not help our

2368
01:27:12,720 --> 01:27:14,600
property values. It probably will hurt a

2369
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,800
little bit. And um

2370
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:20,080
at the very least um I would ask that uh

2371
01:27:20,080 --> 01:27:23,200
you have a continuance so that the um

2372
01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:25,800
Mr. Murray uh and I knew his father uh

2373
01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:27,400
and worked with his father

2374
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:29,640
um could at least talk to us about what

2375
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:31,480
he's planning to do. Uh

2376
01:27:31,480 --> 01:27:34,240
and but right now I stand not in favor.

2377
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:36,240
Thank you.

2378
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:37,040
>> Thank you.

2379
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:44,430
Uh is there anyone online? Um

2380
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:45,720
Okay.

2381
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:48,680
Uh I will close public comment at 8:01

2382
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:51,520
and invite the petitioner uh

2383
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:55,950
to address any of the concerns.

2384
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:57,200
» Um

2385
01:27:57,200 --> 01:28:01,360
I used to pay HOA dues. And since 2004

2386
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:02,600
till

2387
01:28:02,600 --> 01:28:04,200
I can't remember what year I was paying

2388
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:07,280
HOA dues. I was also paying undeveloped

2389
01:28:07,280 --> 01:28:10,600
lot maintenance fees. And the Stonegate

2390
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:12,040
HOA never

2391
01:28:12,040 --> 01:28:14,160
did anything related to

2392
01:28:14,160 --> 01:28:15,080
um

2393
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:16,760
you know, maintaining the property like

2394
01:28:16,760 --> 01:28:18,640
they do on some of the other other

2395
01:28:18,640 --> 01:28:19,920
undeveloped properties. So, I used to

2396
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:21,280
bushwhack that property. I'm not sure

2397
01:28:21,280 --> 01:28:22,520
when you bought

2398
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:24,160
your your lots if you were one of the

2399
01:28:24,160 --> 01:28:26,680
original owners. Um but when I bought

2400
01:28:26,680 --> 01:28:27,960
there was no

2401
01:28:27,960 --> 01:28:29,600
um

2402
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:31,240
there was it was called the Chamberlain

2403
01:28:31,240 --> 01:28:33,520
parcel. That's how it was positioned cuz

2404
01:28:33,520 --> 01:28:35,280
of the people that owned

2405
01:28:35,280 --> 01:28:37,160
that other parcel or that other that

2406
01:28:37,160 --> 01:28:39,000
first house was the Chamberlain and I

2407
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:40,040
imagine they were friends

2408
01:28:40,040 --> 01:28:41,640
>> Just real quick, you are addressing us.

2409
01:28:41,640 --> 01:28:42,160
>> Yeah, right.

2410
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:43,320
>> It's difficult cuz you're answering the

2411
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:43,440
question.

2412
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:45,000
>> I just want to make sure I want to put

2413
01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:45,880
that out there.

2414
01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,240
>> I'm trying to be respectful, right. Um

2415
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:50,320
that they were um I think they were

2416
01:28:50,320 --> 01:28:51,840
friends with with the Wrights's and I

2417
01:28:51,840 --> 01:28:55,480
think that they um

2418
01:28:55,480 --> 01:28:56,840
supported the development. I think

2419
01:28:56,840 --> 01:28:59,240
that's how that got into um put in

2420
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:00,240
place.

2421
01:29:00,240 --> 01:29:03,480
Stonegate is full of multiple properties

2422
01:29:03,480 --> 01:29:04,920
that the only way to get into the

2423
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:06,280
property

2424
01:29:06,280 --> 01:29:08,760
to the garage is through

2425
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,760
the easement. It's through that the the

2426
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:13,000
shared drive. Um if you look at the

2427
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:16,640
other properties along there they were

2428
01:29:16,640 --> 01:29:18,200
all developed

2429
01:29:18,200 --> 01:29:21,360
with their own driveway other than these

2430
01:29:21,360 --> 01:29:24,560
two properties. So, my you know, you can

2431
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,560
assume that well, why is why does that

2432
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:29,320
other property have

2433
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:30,880
why do those two properties have that

2434
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:32,240
shared drive?

2435
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:33,760
And it's the only reason those two

2436
01:29:33,760 --> 01:29:36,080
properties have that shared drive is to

2437
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:37,400
access

2438
01:29:37,400 --> 01:29:39,440
my property as well, too.

2439
01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:40,680
Um

2440
01:29:40,680 --> 01:29:42,080
I think there's some conversation about

2441
01:29:42,080 --> 01:29:44,680
the the 20 ft and that comes with the

2442
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:46,760
utility easement that's part of block A

2443
01:29:46,760 --> 01:29:49,280
as well. And so, that's where the 20 ft

2444
01:29:49,280 --> 01:29:51,000
is coming from rather than just the

2445
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:53,080
11-ft driveway cuz there's also an

2446
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:54,360
easement

2447
01:29:54,360 --> 01:29:57,760
on those two shared properties for

2448
01:29:57,760 --> 01:30:00,280
utilities in block A.

2449
01:30:00,280 --> 01:30:01,880
So, that's where the 20 ft is coming

2450
01:30:01,880 --> 01:30:04,440
from. Um as far as

2451
01:30:04,440 --> 01:30:06,600
properties being landlocked and less

2452
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:08,480
than 20 ft

2453
01:30:08,480 --> 01:30:10,760
I know we're not supposed to talk about

2454
01:30:10,760 --> 01:30:12,760
other variances, but there are two other

2455
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:15,680
properties in Stonegate proper that and

2456
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:18,720
one is being built right now that are in

2457
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:20,320
that same situation where they don't

2458
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,840
have the 45-ft uh road frontage, 6155

2459
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:27,760
and I think 6120. Um and 6120 is being

2460
01:30:27,760 --> 01:30:29,040
built right now.

2461
01:30:29,040 --> 01:30:30,760
So, it was an old house that got torn

2462
01:30:30,760 --> 01:30:32,280
down and I don't think they're using the

2463
01:30:32,280 --> 01:30:34,160
same

2464
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,720
um foundation. I think there's a whole

2465
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:40,280
new foundation that was poured, too. So,

2466
01:30:40,280 --> 01:30:40,960
>> Do you have anything?

2467
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:41,240
>> Um

2468
01:30:41,240 --> 01:30:44,030
>> Yeah.

2469
01:30:44,040 --> 01:30:45,760
» I was just going to say regarding the

2470
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:48,120
utilities, we have This isn't what it's

2471
01:30:48,120 --> 01:30:49,560
for, but I just wanted to let you know

2472
01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,480
that we have talked to the utilities and

2473
01:30:51,480 --> 01:30:54,640
they don't see any issues with extending

2474
01:30:54,640 --> 01:30:56,360
through the easement because it is a

2475
01:30:56,360 --> 01:30:58,440
utility as well as an access easement,

2476
01:30:58,440 --> 01:31:00,480
so they don't see any issues as far as

2477
01:31:00,480 --> 01:31:03,080
that goes. Um and then also since this

2478
01:31:03,080 --> 01:31:05,800
is zoned as R1, it is zoned to have a

2479
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:08,560
single-family residential property on it

2480
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:11,640
and every other property in this green

2481
01:31:11,640 --> 01:31:14,240
area has a single-family residence

2482
01:31:14,240 --> 01:31:16,720
except for this 1-acre property.

2483
01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:18,840
Um and so, yeah, that was all I wanted

2484
01:31:18,840 --> 01:31:21,310
to add.

2485
01:31:21,320 --> 01:31:23,000
» Why was this property not included as

2486
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:26,120
part of the plat for Stonegate?

2487
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,760
>> My my opinion after going through all

2488
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:30,920
the stuff is that I don't think Larry

2489
01:31:30,920 --> 01:31:33,120
wanted to spend the money on replatting,

2490
01:31:33,120 --> 01:31:34,960
to tell you the truth, cuz everything I

2491
01:31:34,960 --> 01:31:37,240
mean, it's called added parcel and in

2492
01:31:37,240 --> 01:31:39,680
the the verbiage it says a lot in

2493
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:42,080
Stonegate rather than just If it wasn't

2494
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:43,400
going to be

2495
01:31:43,400 --> 01:31:45,560
a lot in Stonegate, they would have said

2496
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:48,440
separate lot with access through

2497
01:31:48,440 --> 01:31:51,560
Stonegate. And you know, and in all of

2498
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:52,720
this,

2499
01:31:52,720 --> 01:31:54,400
you know, all of these documentations

2500
01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:56,440
that I have, when I got the property,

2501
01:31:56,440 --> 01:31:57,520
I'm supposed to follow all the

2502
01:31:57,520 --> 01:32:00,200
architectural guidelines. Um there is

2503
01:32:00,200 --> 01:32:02,800
some conversation of um you know,

2504
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:07,320
whether I'm using Stonegate and um,

2505
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:10,440
not paying dues. I've I wrote to the uh

2506
01:32:10,440 --> 01:32:12,720
president of the board and I said, "I'm

2507
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:14,240
I'm fully

2508
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:17,920
um, would love to make it where this lot

2509
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:20,600
is required to pay HOA dues cuz right

2510
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,280
now it's this gray area that never

2511
01:32:24,280 --> 01:32:26,480
got resolved when Larry did all the

2512
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:30,000
paperwork for the development. So, um,

2513
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:32,440
so I'm I'm in favor of

2514
01:32:32,440 --> 01:32:34,640
having it officially part of Stonegate,

2515
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:36,720
required to pay the dues. I paid the

2516
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,160
dues for years.

2517
01:32:38,160 --> 01:32:40,320
I don't know what happened, um,

2518
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:41,680
you know, when my dad t- kind of took

2519
01:32:41,680 --> 01:32:43,280
charge of the property.

2520
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,920
Um, and um,

2521
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:47,080
whether

2522
01:32:47,080 --> 01:32:48,920
I think he paid the dues, but I couldn't

2523
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:50,880
find records of them, but I paid the

2524
01:32:50,880 --> 01:32:52,200
dues for years.

2525
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:53,680
>> As the owner of this parcel, are you

2526
01:32:53,680 --> 01:32:55,640
entitled to use the amenities of

2527
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:56,560
Stonegate?

2528
01:32:56,560 --> 01:32:58,200
>> Uh, if I pay the dues, yes. It's in the

2529
01:32:58,200 --> 01:33:00,440
documents, yes. Yeah.

2530
01:33:00,440 --> 01:33:03,510
As long as I pay the dues.

2531
01:33:03,520 --> 01:33:05,800
» This Eric, this is never a farm field or

2532
01:33:05,800 --> 01:33:08,680
this is like a the the access wasn't

2533
01:33:08,680 --> 01:33:10,720
designed to be for for farmers to be

2534
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,520
able to gain access in there to harvest

2535
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:12,920
crops.

2536
01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:14,760
>> Not in any Not in any of the documents,

2537
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:15,040
no.

2538
01:33:15,040 --> 01:33:15,520
>> Okay.

2539
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:21,670
>> Yeah.

2540
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:23,120
And And it does have a Stonegate

2541
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:24,200
address.

2542
01:33:24,200 --> 01:33:26,160
It doesn't have a Morton Road address.

2543
01:33:26,160 --> 01:33:28,360
It's got a Stonegate address.

2544
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:30,870
So,

2545
01:33:30,880 --> 01:33:32,040
» Now, as as a lot owner in my

2546
01:33:32,040 --> 01:33:34,720
neighborhood, and as part of my the HOA

2547
01:33:34,720 --> 01:33:36,480
rules in my neighborhood where I live,

2548
01:33:36,480 --> 01:33:37,920
if I stop paying dues, then I get in

2549
01:33:37,920 --> 01:33:39,440
trouble.

2550
01:33:39,440 --> 01:33:41,000
Do you Do you have Is there a similar

2551
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:41,720
repercussion?

2552
01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,240
>> I I think that be-

2553
01:33:44,240 --> 01:33:45,760
And I don't know if I This is just

2554
01:33:45,760 --> 01:33:47,720
speculation, but

2555
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:49,720
I know that when a HOA when the

2556
01:33:49,720 --> 01:33:52,120
developer hands over the HOA

2557
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:54,480
to the to the community,

2558
01:33:54,480 --> 01:33:56,840
the HOA community inherits

2559
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:58,960
all of the deficiencies that the

2560
01:33:58,960 --> 01:34:01,360
developer created. And I don't know if

2561
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:03,760
they're worried about that. I'm not, you

2562
01:34:03,760 --> 01:34:06,840
know, I I just want to get this approved

2563
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:09,640
and um be able to either build a house

2564
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:11,480
there or sell the property to somebody

2565
01:34:11,480 --> 01:34:14,760
else. Um I want to be respectful to uh

2566
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:16,840
to the Stone- the other neighbors. I

2567
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,000
wanted part of Stonegate. I know that

2568
01:34:19,000 --> 01:34:20,600
there are

2569
01:34:20,600 --> 01:34:23,000
um already some setbacks

2570
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:25,920
that are required uh in in the property

2571
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:28,440
since that's a big topic lately today.

2572
01:34:28,440 --> 01:34:30,360
Um I know there are some setbacks. I'm

2573
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:31,800
willing to,

2574
01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:34,680
you know, accommodate those setbacks and

2575
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,680
um make sure that they're respectful to

2576
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:41,400
the other owners on the property. So.

2577
01:34:41,400 --> 01:34:48,790
Or the other owners of the next to me.

2578
01:34:48,800 --> 01:34:56,870
» Commissioners?

2579
01:34:56,880 --> 01:34:59,320
I I

2580
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:01,440
This This is a strange one.

2581
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:01,880
>> Yeah.

2582
01:35:01,880 --> 01:35:04,400
>> Um

2583
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:09,200
the uh uh it has an R1 zoning and unless

2584
01:35:09,200 --> 01:35:11,480
legal's going to correct me,

2585
01:35:11,480 --> 01:35:14,040
they have a right to build a house there

2586
01:35:14,040 --> 01:35:15,800
but for

2587
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:18,910
road frontage.

2588
01:35:18,920 --> 01:35:20,480
He's not corrected me, so I'm going to

2589
01:35:20,480 --> 01:35:22,360
assume that stands. So,

2590
01:35:22,360 --> 01:35:24,920
>> Yeah. I I I bought this property during

2591
01:35:24,920 --> 01:35:26,240
the Homearama

2592
01:35:26,240 --> 01:35:28,120
when the Homearama was in Stonegate and

2593
01:35:28,120 --> 01:35:30,040
there was a big sign, you know, I was

2594
01:35:30,040 --> 01:35:32,160
looking at another parcel in Stonegate

2595
01:35:32,160 --> 01:35:35,280
and it was a postage stamp, right? And

2596
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:36,840
there was a big sign that says, you

2597
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:38,880
know, Stonegate, a part of Stonegate, 1

2598
01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:41,480
acre. And Larry walked the property with

2599
01:35:41,480 --> 01:35:42,440
me.

2600
01:35:42,440 --> 01:35:43,000
So,

2601
01:35:43,000 --> 01:35:43,560
>> Sure. I

2602
01:35:43,560 --> 01:35:44,120
>> Yeah.

2603
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:46,600
I appreciate that and we may have

2604
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:48,520
more questions for you, but right now

2605
01:35:48,520 --> 01:35:49,320
we're

2606
01:35:49,320 --> 01:35:51,520
addressing each other. So, to me, the

2607
01:35:51,520 --> 01:35:53,720
only thing in front of us is

2608
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:55,840
that as complicated as some things on

2609
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:59,510
this are

2610
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:01,920
you know, we've heard legal say that

2611
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:03,600
whether or not there's clear

2612
01:36:03,600 --> 01:36:06,400
establishment of their right to the

2613
01:36:06,400 --> 01:36:08,440
shared access, we're supposed to decide

2614
01:36:08,440 --> 01:36:09,520
on

2615
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,950
if we're

2616
01:36:12,960 --> 01:36:15,720
if the three factors are met

2617
01:36:15,720 --> 01:36:17,800
to allow them the variance on the road

2618
01:36:17,800 --> 01:36:21,590
frontage.

2619
01:36:21,600 --> 01:36:22,360
» I would

2620
01:36:22,360 --> 01:36:23,240
say yes.

2621
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:30,830
>> Well, but at any further conversation to

2622
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:33,160
Usually, when I get variances in front

2623
01:36:33,160 --> 01:36:35,480
of me, the one that is hard to get over

2624
01:36:35,480 --> 01:36:39,310
is the hardship one.

2625
01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:41,480
You can't build anything on this.

2626
01:36:41,480 --> 01:36:46,190
You can't use the R1 residential

2627
01:36:46,200 --> 01:36:47,880
without a variance on the

2628
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:49,280
45-ft

2629
01:36:49,280 --> 01:36:51,200
setback.

2630
01:36:51,200 --> 01:36:54,240
I I understand why the neighbors

2631
01:36:54,240 --> 01:36:57,840
are concerned about the shared use and

2632
01:36:57,840 --> 01:37:00,040
in their view the expansion of of the

2633
01:37:00,040 --> 01:37:02,840
use of of this easement they share.

2634
01:37:02,840 --> 01:37:04,640
I

2635
01:37:04,640 --> 01:37:08,430
don't know that that's our thing.

2636
01:37:08,440 --> 01:37:11,080
» Because it has a Stone Gate address

2637
01:37:11,080 --> 01:37:13,120
and it was sold to be part of Stone

2638
01:37:13,120 --> 01:37:14,760
Gate.

2639
01:37:14,760 --> 01:37:16,400
I don't know what else

2640
01:37:16,400 --> 01:37:18,280
What would be the options for this piece

2641
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,200
of land?

2642
01:37:20,200 --> 01:37:22,240
What else could you do with it?

2643
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:24,160
>> Which is why I would argue it meets the

2644
01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:25,280
hardship exception.

2645
01:37:25,280 --> 01:37:27,080
>> If if if it was ag zone ground, I could

2646
01:37:27,080 --> 01:37:28,480
say hey, you could farm it. It's not

2647
01:37:28,480 --> 01:37:31,520
even zoned ag. It's in zone R1.

2648
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,320
Um

2649
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:37,120
as much as I I I

2650
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:40,240
would say I don't I don't like it, but

2651
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:42,560
it seems like we've had several type of

2652
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:44,480
issues like this in the Stone Gate

2653
01:37:44,480 --> 01:37:47,080
development.

2654
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:50,280
This seems to be another one that

2655
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:53,040
like Eric said, it sounds like it was

2656
01:37:53,040 --> 01:37:54,960
a deal done that just didn't get

2657
01:37:54,960 --> 01:37:56,800
recorded properly somewhere along the

2658
01:37:56,800 --> 01:37:59,560
way. But, someone who buys a lot has the

2659
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:01,600
right to have access to their lot,

2660
01:38:01,600 --> 01:38:02,920
particularly if there's already an

2661
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:06,920
access and utility easement already for that

2662
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:08,520
lot.

2663
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:11,000
I don't like it, but it does it fulfills

2664
01:38:11,000 --> 01:38:13,040
the three requirements of our of our

2665
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:15,200
standards. I think staff did a wonderful

2666
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:17,360
job of preparing, and I agree with all

2667
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:18,360
three

2668
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:20,720
their analysis on this. I don't like it,

2669
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:27,630
but I agree with it.

2670
01:38:27,640 --> 01:38:30,000
» Well, if no further discussion, I would

2671
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:35,230
certainly entertain a motion.

2672
01:38:35,240 --> 01:38:37,320
» I'm saying that

2673
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:41,280
I'll move that docket 2026-06-DSV

2674
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:42,960
development standards variance to reduce

2675
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,000
the 45-ft road frontage requirement

2676
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:48,920
to 20 ft in the area of

2677
01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:51,480
block A depicted on the recorded plat

2678
01:38:51,480 --> 01:38:53,880
for the Stonegate subdivision for the

2679
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:55,160
construction of a single-family

2680
01:38:55,160 --> 01:38:58,640
residence at 6724 West Stonegate Drive

2681
01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:01,160
be conditionally approved as presented

2682
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:02,800
and described based on the findings of

2683
01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:05,440
the staff report, staff recommendations,

2684
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:07,280
submitted findings of facts, substantial

2685
01:39:07,280 --> 01:39:08,960
compliance with the submitted site

2686
01:39:08,960 --> 01:39:10,520
plans, and

2687
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:13,160
the following condition of approval.

2688
01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:15,400
As part of the submittal for an approved

2689
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,320
location permit, the petitioner shall

2690
01:39:17,320 --> 01:39:19,320
provide documentation showing clear

2691
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:22,040
approval from the owners of the easement

2692
01:39:22,040 --> 01:39:25,240
to utilize block A as access point for

2693
01:39:25,240 --> 01:39:28,550
the parcel.

2694
01:39:28,560 --> 01:39:32,990
>> I'll second.

2695
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:36,190
» Okay. Um

2696
01:39:36,200 --> 01:39:37,760
I think we'll do a roll call vote on

2697
01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:39,440
this one, Mr. Dale, if you don't mind.

2698
01:39:39,440 --> 01:39:40,440
>> Josh Fedor.

2699
01:39:40,440 --> 01:39:41,360
>> Aye.

2700
01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:42,480
>> Josh Martin.

2701
01:39:42,480 --> 01:39:43,680
>> Hi.

2702
01:39:43,680 --> 01:39:44,600
>> Jim Hurst.

2703
01:39:44,600 --> 01:39:46,840
>> Hi.

2704
01:39:46,840 --> 01:39:47,760
>> Katie Glenn.

2705
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:48,960
>> Hi.

2706
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:51,440
>> Four approved.

2707
01:39:51,440 --> 01:39:56,070
>> Thank you very much.

2708
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,630
» Okay.

2709
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:03,400
We are on to other matters to be

2710
01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:05,000
considered.

2711
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:05,640
Uh

2712
01:40:05,640 --> 01:40:08,160
a discussion on unnecessary hardship and

2713
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:10,160
practical difficulty.

2714
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:11,440
Um

2715
01:40:11,440 --> 01:40:15,840
I raised this at our last BZA meeting.

2716
01:40:15,840 --> 01:40:17,720
Um

2717
01:40:17,720 --> 01:40:19,120
I love that you guys are catching up.

2718
01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:20,440
We'll let you get out of the room. Thank

2719
01:40:20,440 --> 01:40:24,830
you.

2720
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:26,960
I raised this at the last BZA meeting

2721
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:28,280
because I

2722
01:40:28,280 --> 01:40:32,160
in my opinion at times we get boxed in

2723
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:35,760
on things that are probably

2724
01:40:35,760 --> 01:40:37,760
good for the community but don't meet

2725
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,560
the technical definition of hardship.

2726
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:47,120
Um this came up before I was on BZA.

2727
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:49,720
Plan Commission forwarded it to Town

2728
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:52,040
Council without talking to anyone on

2729
01:40:52,040 --> 01:40:55,280
BZA, which was a faux pas.

2730
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:58,160
Um and BZA raised their hand and said

2731
01:40:58,160 --> 01:41:00,040
we're we're not sure

2732
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:02,720
that we think this is necessary. So Town

2733
01:41:02,720 --> 01:41:04,560
Council reasonably

2734
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:07,560
but declined to move forward with it.

2735
01:41:07,560 --> 01:41:10,960
Now having lived with this uh hardship

2736
01:41:10,960 --> 01:41:13,360
for a year and a half uh

2737
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:15,400
or so that I've been on the the BZA, I

2738
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:18,240
would ask that we reconsider this again.

2739
01:41:18,240 --> 01:41:20,440
And if we have um

2740
01:41:20,440 --> 01:41:23,160
I will say philosophical agreement uh

2741
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:25,000
that it's something that the Plan

2742
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:28,440
Commission should consider again

2743
01:41:28,440 --> 01:41:30,040
forwarding to Town Council that they

2744
01:41:30,040 --> 01:41:31,440
would at least know that they had the

2745
01:41:31,440 --> 01:41:33,440
support or not

2746
01:41:33,440 --> 01:41:35,120
of the BZA.

2747
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:36,280
Uh

2748
01:41:36,280 --> 01:41:38,560
and so in a moment I'll invite Mike or

2749
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:42,070
Jonathan whoever might be

2750
01:41:42,080 --> 01:41:43,640
taking us through the document to go

2751
01:41:43,640 --> 01:41:45,760
through it but

2752
01:41:45,760 --> 01:41:47,920
I would be hesitant to try to reach any

2753
01:41:47,920 --> 01:41:49,960
resolution tonight especially missing

2754
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:52,360
our chair.

2755
01:41:52,360 --> 01:41:53,840
>> Just a little background it was about a

2756
01:41:53,840 --> 01:41:55,280
year and a half ago

2757
01:41:55,280 --> 01:41:56,960
when the plan commission forwarded a

2758
01:41:56,960 --> 01:41:59,480
favorable recommendation

2759
01:41:59,480 --> 01:42:02,480
five in favor zero opposed

2760
01:42:02,480 --> 01:42:05,320
to the town council to replace

2761
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:06,880
unnecessary hardship which is the

2762
01:42:06,880 --> 01:42:08,680
current standard with practical

2763
01:42:08,680 --> 01:42:11,160
difficulty.

2764
01:42:11,160 --> 01:42:12,400
With regard to development standards

2765
01:42:12,400 --> 01:42:14,160
variances

2766
01:42:14,160 --> 01:42:17,440
in addition to that replacing

2767
01:42:17,440 --> 01:42:19,120
unnecessary hardship with practical

2768
01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:20,640
difficulty

2769
01:42:20,640 --> 01:42:22,480
the proposed ordinance also added

2770
01:42:22,480 --> 01:42:25,040
definitions for practical difficulty and

2771
01:42:25,040 --> 01:42:28,280
unnecessary hardship.

2772
01:42:28,280 --> 01:42:29,960
Few months later

2773
01:42:29,960 --> 01:42:33,960
the town council voted to reject. That

2774
01:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,480
ordinance amendment stating that the

2775
01:42:36,480 --> 01:42:38,320
ordinance was overly broad when

2776
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:40,440
considering both the rural and urban

2777
01:42:40,440 --> 01:42:42,720
zoning districts. So I think that's a

2778
01:42:42,720 --> 01:42:43,880
help for

2779
01:42:43,880 --> 01:42:47,320
us if we want to you know

2780
01:42:47,320 --> 01:42:49,560
revisit this topic the town council

2781
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:50,760
seemed to sense that there ought to be a

2782
01:42:50,760 --> 01:42:52,200
distinction

2783
01:42:52,200 --> 01:42:54,280
perhaps between the rural and urban

2784
01:42:54,280 --> 01:42:57,480
areas or in other words maybe

2785
01:42:57,480 --> 01:42:59,200
unnecessary hardship would apply to the

2786
01:42:59,200 --> 01:43:00,440
urban

2787
01:43:00,440 --> 01:43:02,040
areas and practical difficulty to the

2788
01:43:02,040 --> 01:43:03,640
rural just as an example not sure if

2789
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:05,480
that's where you want to go.

2790
01:43:05,480 --> 01:43:09,040
And then so the council rejected it and

2791
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:10,640
the plan commission took no further

2792
01:43:10,640 --> 01:43:12,960
action. So the council's decisions you

2793
01:43:12,960 --> 01:43:14,640
know stayed

2794
01:43:14,640 --> 01:43:16,960
with that decision. So

2795
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:17,960
that's where we are. I think that you

2796
01:43:17,960 --> 01:43:19,240
may have I'm not sure Jonathan if we

2797
01:43:19,240 --> 01:43:21,560
handed out you know definitions for

2798
01:43:21,560 --> 01:43:23,240
practical difficulty and hardship or if

2799
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:25,400
you want to put that on the screen

2800
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:26,720
that might be helpful too depending on

2801
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:35,390
how you want to carry this conversation.

2802
01:43:35,400 --> 01:43:37,040
» My team will switch to my computer. We

2803
01:43:37,040 --> 01:43:39,960
can put it on the screen.

2804
01:43:39,960 --> 01:43:40,400
Thank you.

2805
01:43:40,400 --> 01:43:43,680
>> Let Jonathan go here and then

2806
01:43:43,680 --> 01:43:45,520
>> If you can zoom in on that, Jonathan.

2807
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,280
Make it larger for us.

2808
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:51,270
There you go. That's much better.

2809
01:43:51,280 --> 01:43:53,120
There you go.

2810
01:43:53,120 --> 01:44:01,110
Yeah.

2811
01:44:01,120 --> 01:44:02,400
Understanding too that, you know,

2812
01:44:02,400 --> 01:44:04,040
depending on what the conversation this

2813
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:05,400
evening, you may want to direct staff to

2814
01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:07,160
do some research.

2815
01:44:07,160 --> 01:44:09,400
Um you know, whatever whatever you need

2816
01:44:09,400 --> 01:44:11,360
uh to to move this forward if you decide

2817
01:44:11,360 --> 01:44:16,030
to move forward on this topic.

2818
01:44:16,040 --> 01:44:18,760
» So, I've been involved with this since

2819
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:22,000
it first came and then we we decided

2820
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:24,480
we we got a little wishy-washy on it.

2821
01:44:24,480 --> 01:44:27,400
And I I'd said at the time at Planning

2822
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:29,000
Commission

2823
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:30,880
um after we were rejected by Town

2824
01:44:30,880 --> 01:44:33,280
Council not to pursue any further

2825
01:44:33,280 --> 01:44:35,760
at that time

2826
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:37,720
I said, "Let's give it a year or let's

2827
01:44:37,720 --> 01:44:39,440
let me get some some time under my

2828
01:44:39,440 --> 01:44:41,160
eyes." Fairly new to the BZA as well as

2829
01:44:41,160 --> 01:44:44,320
Jim Jim came on not too far after I did.

2830
01:44:44,320 --> 01:44:46,320
Uh we've both sat on this thing now for

2831
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:47,760
over a year, seen some stuff come in

2832
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:49,000
front of us.

2833
01:44:49,000 --> 01:44:51,870
Um

2834
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:54,800
unnecessary hardship was the default

2835
01:44:54,800 --> 01:44:56,520
that I felt like we need to be at at

2836
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:58,440
that time. However, going through it

2837
01:44:58,440 --> 01:44:59,960
throughout the year, I definitely think

2838
01:44:59,960 --> 01:45:01,520
that

2839
01:45:01,520 --> 01:45:02,920
uh practical difficulty needs to be

2840
01:45:02,920 --> 01:45:04,200
applied in certain areas of our

2841
01:45:04,200 --> 01:45:07,040
community for and and that's

2842
01:45:07,040 --> 01:45:08,600
something I'd like for staff to kind of

2843
01:45:08,600 --> 01:45:10,760
delve a little bit further into.

2844
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,120
Um as well as, you know, a a special

2845
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:14,920
exemption may be something we would want

2846
01:45:14,920 --> 01:45:17,680
to keep unnecessary hardship levels on.

2847
01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:19,560
Uh where we would not want to for a

2848
01:45:19,560 --> 01:45:21,640
development standard variance. We may

2849
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:24,040
want to keep practical difficult So,

2850
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:25,600
may maybe if you guys can do a little

2851
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:27,280
homework on that end and tell it kind of

2852
01:45:27,280 --> 01:45:29,280
give us some guidance on how to go that

2853
01:45:29,280 --> 01:45:31,440
direction with it. That's kind of where

2854
01:45:31,440 --> 01:45:33,440
I'm at with it. But, I definitely think

2855
01:45:33,440 --> 01:45:36,160
we need to to re- revisit this subject

2856
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:37,560
after going through what I have in the

2857
01:45:37,560 --> 01:45:39,200
last year and

2858
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:41,160
saying no to some people who I really

2859
01:45:41,160 --> 01:45:43,640
wish I could have said yes to. But, our

2860
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:45,920
standards are pretty clear.

2861
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:48,320
>> Also, I should mention that that I think

2862
01:45:48,320 --> 01:45:49,720
the statute

2863
01:45:49,720 --> 01:45:52,480
or at least most communities use the um

2864
01:45:52,480 --> 01:45:55,320
the uh practical difficulty

2865
01:45:55,320 --> 01:45:57,360
uh finding. But, with the And look,

2866
01:45:57,360 --> 01:45:58,560
correct me if I'm wrong, but I think

2867
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:00,480
that the uh you know, Zionsville chose

2868
01:46:00,480 --> 01:46:02,400
the the higher, more rigorous standard

2869
01:46:02,400 --> 01:46:03,960
of unnecessary hardship.

2870
01:46:03,960 --> 01:46:04,800
>> Yeah,

2871
01:46:04,800 --> 01:46:06,760
local jurisdictions have the authority

2872
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:08,840
to be more restrictive

2873
01:46:08,840 --> 01:46:11,320
um in adopting

2874
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:15,720
uh unnecessary hardship is a use

2875
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:17,720
variance standard. It's easy to

2876
01:46:17,720 --> 01:46:19,200
understand

2877
01:46:19,200 --> 01:46:21,400
the property can't re- it you're That's

2878
01:46:21,400 --> 01:46:23,120
where somebody comes in and wants to put

2879
01:46:23,120 --> 01:46:24,520
a business

2880
01:46:24,520 --> 01:46:26,440
y- have a business use in a

2881
01:46:26,440 --> 01:46:29,400
residentially owned residentially zoned

2882
01:46:29,400 --> 01:46:31,000
area.

2883
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:33,480
You can wrap your head around

2884
01:46:33,480 --> 01:46:37,200
um in that in the use context, it's all

2885
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:39,680
of the case law in Indiana

2886
01:46:39,680 --> 01:46:41,800
is interpreting what unnecessary

2887
01:46:41,800 --> 01:46:43,600
hardship means. And when cases get

2888
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:45,120
appealed to court, then it goes up to

2889
01:46:45,120 --> 01:46:46,840
the court of appeals after a board of

2890
01:46:46,840 --> 01:46:48,320
zoning appeals hearing,

2891
01:46:48,320 --> 01:46:50,560
those are all in the context of use

2892
01:46:50,560 --> 01:46:52,520
variances, not development standard

2893
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:53,880
variances.

2894
01:46:53,880 --> 01:46:55,640
So, it it makes

2895
01:46:55,640 --> 01:46:57,080
difficult.

2896
01:46:57,080 --> 01:46:58,920
Ultimately, the board of zoning appeals

2897
01:46:58,920 --> 01:47:00,880
is quasi-judicial.

2898
01:47:00,880 --> 01:47:02,640
And

2899
01:47:02,640 --> 01:47:06,880
you c- you call it uh you as as long as

2900
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:11,120
you make the findings appropriately,

2901
01:47:11,120 --> 01:47:14,040
uh you you call whether it's a a ball or

2902
01:47:14,040 --> 01:47:17,200
a strike. So, you can get there

2903
01:47:17,200 --> 01:47:20,840
through unnecessary hardship. It's just

2904
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:23,800
um it's just it's difficult. And And

2905
01:47:23,800 --> 01:47:28,120
really, in explaining the differences between

2906
01:47:28,120 --> 01:47:29,840
unnecessary hardship and practical diff-

2907
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:32,800
difficulties, it's a matter of degree.

2908
01:47:32,800 --> 01:47:34,760
Um,

2909
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:36,600
but

2910
01:47:36,600 --> 01:47:39,760
it's um it's it's

2911
01:47:39,760 --> 01:47:41,720
in the time that we've been helping and

2912
01:47:41,720 --> 01:47:43,480
representing um

2913
01:47:43,480 --> 01:47:45,280
this board and and the planning

2914
01:47:45,280 --> 01:47:48,000
department, um

2915
01:47:48,000 --> 01:47:50,360
it it's not unusual in

2916
01:47:50,360 --> 01:47:51,920
most jurisdictions, it's even a good

2917
01:47:51,920 --> 01:47:53,640
practice to

2918
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,160
annually review the types of cases that

2919
01:47:56,160 --> 01:47:58,160
are coming through

2920
01:47:58,160 --> 01:47:59,840
and

2921
01:47:59,840 --> 01:48:01,400
what are the

2922
01:48:01,400 --> 01:48:04,080
issues that are are hanging up the board

2923
01:48:04,080 --> 01:48:06,000
and then doing exactly what you're doing

2924
01:48:06,000 --> 01:48:07,600
and revisiting

2925
01:48:07,600 --> 01:48:10,120
I mean, judges have judic- they have

2926
01:48:10,120 --> 01:48:12,080
judicial conferences and and bodies

2927
01:48:12,080 --> 01:48:13,200
where they

2928
01:48:13,200 --> 01:48:14,480
you know, judges are charged by the

2929
01:48:14,480 --> 01:48:19,240
Indiana legislature with statutes without sometimes without

2930
01:48:19,240 --> 01:48:22,920
guidelines or or explanatory um

2931
01:48:22,920 --> 01:48:24,200
other than

2932
01:48:24,200 --> 01:48:26,960
judges discussions in other cases.

2933
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:28,560
And you know, they can make

2934
01:48:28,560 --> 01:48:31,120
recommendations to the legislature for

2935
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:32,440
you know, requested changes to make

2936
01:48:32,440 --> 01:48:34,280
their jobs easier.

2937
01:48:34,280 --> 01:48:36,200
So, it's it's a

2938
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:37,840
um

2939
01:48:37,840 --> 01:48:39,840
in my mind, and this is just my personal

2940
01:48:39,840 --> 01:48:44,080
opinion, the use variance definition

2941
01:48:44,080 --> 01:48:45,400
that the

2942
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:46,240
are

2943
01:48:46,240 --> 01:48:49,520
well stated in in the staff reports and

2944
01:48:49,520 --> 01:48:51,840
that come up

2945
01:48:51,840 --> 01:48:54,640
at that standard, I don't

2946
01:48:54,640 --> 01:48:57,240
know how a development standard can ever

2947
01:48:57,240 --> 01:48:59,840
be granted because

2948
01:48:59,840 --> 01:49:01,240
it's a just

2949
01:49:01,240 --> 01:49:03,320
they they want to change a a setback for

2950
01:49:03,320 --> 01:49:05,120
a patio.

2951
01:49:05,120 --> 01:49:06,800
Well, the house can obviously still be

2952
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:09,240
used for residential purposes because

2953
01:49:09,240 --> 01:49:11,600
it's for a house, there's a house there.

2954
01:49:11,600 --> 01:49:13,480
It's just those

2955
01:49:13,480 --> 01:49:15,480
So, it's um

2956
01:49:15,480 --> 01:49:16,840
it but

2957
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:18,880
that that's a legislative decision that

2958
01:49:18,880 --> 01:49:21,400
the the town council under its authority

2959
01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:22,960
has they

2960
01:49:22,960 --> 01:49:25,560
So, what Mr. Frodo mentioned

2961
01:49:25,560 --> 01:49:28,120
it might make sense to

2962
01:49:28,120 --> 01:49:31,280
um have you can the

2963
01:49:31,280 --> 01:49:32,800
under its legislative authority the town

2964
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:34,680
council could approve

2965
01:49:34,680 --> 01:49:37,120
uh a different standard depending on uh

2966
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:39,040
for development standard variances in

2967
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:42,040
different parts of of the town.

2968
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:43,760
And that would probably make you still

2969
01:49:43,760 --> 01:49:45,320
have the uh

2970
01:49:45,320 --> 01:49:48,750
you know, there are

2971
01:49:48,760 --> 01:49:51,360
good examples.

2972
01:49:51,360 --> 01:49:53,440
I mean, one way I think of practical

2973
01:49:53,440 --> 01:49:55,600
difficulties in the jurisdictions that

2974
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:58,760
we represent on development standards is

2975
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:00,720
it's almost more of a

2976
01:50:00,720 --> 01:50:01,920
uh

2977
01:50:01,920 --> 01:50:03,680
there's still a healthy dose of was it

2978
01:50:03,680 --> 01:50:05,520
self-created

2979
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:06,440
um

2980
01:50:06,440 --> 01:50:09,000
and is it purely economic?

2981
01:50:09,000 --> 01:50:11,480
But it it's practical difficulties is

2982
01:50:11,480 --> 01:50:14,640
more of a reasonableness standard and it

2983
01:50:14,640 --> 01:50:16,760
and really in the cases that

2984
01:50:16,760 --> 01:50:20,000
um I've sat in on where you've granted

2985
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:22,400
that and gotten there through the the

2986
01:50:22,400 --> 01:50:24,120
stricter um

2987
01:50:24,120 --> 01:50:26,120
unnecessary hardship

2988
01:50:26,120 --> 01:50:27,800
the board discussion and the findings

2989
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:29,480
are

2990
01:50:29,480 --> 01:50:35,320
the peculiarities to the topography or the presence of utility easements

2991
01:50:35,320 --> 01:50:37,520
that prevent the the development and the

2992
01:50:37,520 --> 01:50:39,680
use of the property, but

2993
01:50:39,680 --> 01:50:41,080
um

2994
01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:42,400
yeah, it's

2995
01:50:42,400 --> 01:50:43,400
I've

2996
01:50:43,400 --> 01:50:45,080
come to meetings I'll go back and joke

2997
01:50:45,080 --> 01:50:47,080
with Dan and I'm like

2998
01:50:47,080 --> 01:50:49,360
unnecessary hardship is

2999
01:50:49,360 --> 01:50:51,200
really tough for development standards

3000
01:50:51,200 --> 01:50:52,400
that it makes it really hard for you

3001
01:50:52,400 --> 01:50:55,630
guys as the judges.

3002
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:57,160
» When I said let's revisit, I didn't

3003
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:58,560
realize I was making it a lot harder on

3004
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:03,120
myself. I went last year, but it it

3005
01:51:03,120 --> 01:51:04,840
you know

3006
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:07,120
to the point uh that I

3007
01:51:07,120 --> 01:51:09,200
think was made

3008
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:11,600
you you can navigate

3009
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:13,320
if you really want to, you can find a

3010
01:51:13,320 --> 01:51:15,000
way to navigate around that necessary

3011
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:16,920
hardship, but you have to really want

3012
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:18,000
to.

3013
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:20,640
And I'm missing a big data point, and

3014
01:51:20,640 --> 01:51:22,480
I'm not I don't want to speak for staff,

3015
01:51:22,480 --> 01:51:25,080
and I certainly don't

3016
01:51:25,080 --> 01:51:26,920
I'm not seating the responsibility for

3017
01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:29,120
me to understand what's in front of me

3018
01:51:29,120 --> 01:51:31,040
or my authority,

3019
01:51:31,040 --> 01:51:33,960
but the unnecessary hardship standard,

3020
01:51:33,960 --> 01:51:35,480
I think

3021
01:51:35,480 --> 01:51:38,440
at times, and maybe often times, has

3022
01:51:38,440 --> 01:51:40,480
town staff

3023
01:51:40,480 --> 01:51:44,160
recommending that we disallow something

3024
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:46,560
that they were really kind of okay with,

3025
01:51:46,560 --> 01:51:48,240
but they weren't willing to do the hoop

3026
01:51:48,240 --> 01:51:50,600
jump and the stretches necessary to make

3027
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:52,880
the unnecessary hardship argument.

3028
01:51:52,880 --> 01:51:55,160
And so I I don't know that we always get

3029
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:56,840
a clear view

3030
01:51:56,840 --> 01:51:58,840
from staff as to whether or not they

3031
01:51:58,840 --> 01:52:00,920
think this is appropriate for the

3032
01:52:00,920 --> 01:52:02,040
community

3033
01:52:02,040 --> 01:52:04,840
or and fair to the the the neighbors and

3034
01:52:04,840 --> 01:52:06,880
the the landowner

3035
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:08,800
on the unnecessary hardship standard.

3036
01:52:08,800 --> 01:52:10,960
And so I'm missing a data data point.

3037
01:52:10,960 --> 01:52:12,400
>> But it is also the petitioner's

3038
01:52:12,400 --> 01:52:14,680
responsibility to prove their hardship

3039
01:52:14,680 --> 01:52:15,840
to us. Staff has given us their

3040
01:52:15,840 --> 01:52:17,360
recommendations,

3041
01:52:17,360 --> 01:52:18,760
but I also don't think it needs to go to

3042
01:52:18,760 --> 01:52:19,880
the level where someone needs to hire a

3043
01:52:19,880 --> 01:52:23,560
counsel to try to prove to us something.

3044
01:52:23,560 --> 01:52:25,280
Um so like I said, I think it's

3045
01:52:25,280 --> 01:52:27,120
something we do need to revisit. I would

3046
01:52:27,120 --> 01:52:28,720
look forward to seeing what staff comes

3047
01:52:28,720 --> 01:52:30,640
up with for us.

3048
01:52:30,640 --> 01:52:32,840
Um so and then I would assume the next

3049
01:52:32,840 --> 01:52:34,320
step in this is this something that the

3050
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:36,600
planning commission does,

3051
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:38,280
or is this something we recommend to

3052
01:52:38,280 --> 01:52:40,080
town I I I can't remember the steps in

3053
01:52:40,080 --> 01:52:42,120
the process. So we

3054
01:52:42,120 --> 01:52:43,720
going to recommend a change to the

3055
01:52:43,720 --> 01:52:45,080
planning commission, planning commission

3056
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:46,720
then recommends it to town council? Is

3057
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:47,720
that how this works?

3058
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:48,640
>> I think it'd be helpful to have a

3059
01:52:48,640 --> 01:52:49,600
proposal.

3060
01:52:49,600 --> 01:52:51,240
>> Or is it Yeah, from our end?

3061
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:51,640
>> Yes.

3062
01:52:51,640 --> 01:52:52,120
>> Okay.

3063
01:52:52,120 --> 01:52:53,880
>> Uh to the planning commission.

3064
01:52:53,880 --> 01:52:56,080
Um for them to to weigh.

3065
01:52:56,080 --> 01:52:57,160
>> technically it's the planning commission

3066
01:52:57,160 --> 01:52:59,080
that would be making the changes for us

3067
01:52:59,080 --> 01:53:00,400
and then referring it on to town

3068
01:53:00,400 --> 01:53:03,670
council.

3069
01:53:03,680 --> 01:53:04,800
Well,

3070
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:07,160
>> if you could uh kind of reiterate what

3071
01:53:07,160 --> 01:53:08,880
you would like staff to deliver to you.

3072
01:53:08,880 --> 01:53:11,200
>> Uh some you know, something that breaks

3073
01:53:11,200 --> 01:53:12,600
down

3074
01:53:12,600 --> 01:53:14,200
where staff feels that we would want to

3075
01:53:14,200 --> 01:53:17,120
put not

3076
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:18,760
I don't want to put staff in that

3077
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:20,920
position too much, but

3078
01:53:20,920 --> 01:53:25,960
some sort of breakdown between rural and urban with practical difficulty and

3079
01:53:25,960 --> 01:53:29,200
unnecessary hardship in all of our case

3080
01:53:29,200 --> 01:53:31,960
types where we are currently using

3081
01:53:31,960 --> 01:53:34,360
unnecessary hardship.

3082
01:53:34,360 --> 01:53:35,480
So,

3083
01:53:35,480 --> 01:53:37,680
uh for example, I think we had it's it's

3084
01:53:37,680 --> 01:53:39,280
part of a special exemption. It's part

3085
01:53:39,280 --> 01:53:43,480
of a development standard variance, but

3086
01:53:43,480 --> 01:53:46,750
I guess

3087
01:53:46,760 --> 01:53:47,840
Well, realistically, I just need to go

3088
01:53:47,840 --> 01:53:48,920
home and do my homework and think

3089
01:53:48,920 --> 01:53:51,240
through this. To be you know,

3090
01:53:51,240 --> 01:53:57,990
but some some sort of guidance on

3091
01:53:58,000 --> 01:54:00,440
here's how this would apply in a rural

3092
01:54:00,440 --> 01:54:02,360
setting, here's how it would apply in a

3093
01:54:02,360 --> 01:54:04,640
urban setting.

3094
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:07,880
Or am I asking just kind of my brain's

3095
01:54:07,880 --> 01:54:09,280
thinking and I need to get like I said,

3096
01:54:09,280 --> 01:54:10,240
go home and think through this?

3097
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:12,000
>> development standard variances

3098
01:54:12,000 --> 01:54:12,560
>> Yeah.

3099
01:54:12,560 --> 01:54:14,480
>> those really feel like practical

3100
01:54:14,480 --> 01:54:15,520
difficulty.

3101
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:18,120
>> Yes, they do. Yes.

3102
01:54:18,120 --> 01:54:23,230
>> I'll just get to examples. Lot coverage.

3103
01:54:23,240 --> 01:54:25,680
But where where do you put lot coverage?

3104
01:54:25,680 --> 01:54:27,760
>> yeah, in the urban off the off the cuff,

3105
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:30,080
I'd say urban we'd want to stay

3106
01:54:30,080 --> 01:54:32,040
unnecessary hardship.

3107
01:54:32,040 --> 01:54:33,720
>> Well, can you imagine a lot coverage

3108
01:54:33,720 --> 01:54:37,030
issue in rural?

3109
01:54:37,040 --> 01:54:38,760
That you wouldn't want hardship to be

3110
01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:40,280
at.

3111
01:54:40,280 --> 01:54:43,270
>> You're right.

3112
01:54:43,280 --> 01:54:45,000
» I guess let me ask this question of

3113
01:54:45,000 --> 01:54:46,600
legal. If

3114
01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:47,360
>> I got to think

3115
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:49,800
>> No, it's If we if we lower it to

3116
01:54:49,800 --> 01:54:51,960
practical difficulty

3117
01:54:51,960 --> 01:54:54,080
for development standard variances

3118
01:54:54,080 --> 01:54:56,080
I'm going to argue with the lower.

3119
01:54:56,080 --> 01:54:57,680
>> Or or yeah, if we change it. Yeah.

3120
01:54:57,680 --> 01:55:00,600
>> If if we allow a little more discretion

3121
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:02,080
>> in how we reach our decision.

3122
01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:03,240
>> That's what I'm trying to get to. So,

3123
01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:06,080
with practical difficulty, a petition

3124
01:55:06,080 --> 01:55:09,680
could meet all criteria,

3125
01:55:09,680 --> 01:55:12,400
but the BZA still has the discretion to

3126
01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:13,640
deny.

3127
01:55:13,640 --> 01:55:14,360
>> Correct.

3128
01:55:14,360 --> 01:55:16,360
>> All right. And And so, in that context,

3129
01:55:16,360 --> 01:55:18,880
this is my opinion. In that context,

3130
01:55:18,880 --> 01:55:21,600
that discretion gives you the ability to

3131
01:55:21,600 --> 01:55:24,360
look at everything on a case-by-case

3132
01:55:24,360 --> 01:55:28,400
basis. We don't necessarily need to

3133
01:55:28,400 --> 01:55:31,120
change it urban versus rural. What we

3134
01:55:31,120 --> 01:55:32,680
need to do is change it based off the

3135
01:55:32,680 --> 01:55:35,360
category. Development standard variances

3136
01:55:35,360 --> 01:55:37,040
across the board

3137
01:55:37,040 --> 01:55:39,240
should be practical difficulty,

3138
01:55:39,240 --> 01:55:40,760
which gives y'all afforded y'all the

3139
01:55:40,760 --> 01:55:42,040
right to have discretion on a

3140
01:55:42,040 --> 01:55:44,360
case-by-case-by-case-by-case basis. Some

3141
01:55:44,360 --> 01:55:46,160
will be urban, some will be rural, but

3142
01:55:46,160 --> 01:55:47,640
y'all have that discretion. Y'all retain

3143
01:55:47,640 --> 01:55:48,680
that discretion.

3144
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:50,280
>> And I appreciate you making that point.

3145
01:55:50,280 --> 01:55:52,360
We're not actually giving away the

3146
01:55:52,360 --> 01:55:54,440
ability to say meets all three

3147
01:55:54,440 --> 01:55:55,840
standards, think it's wrong for

3148
01:55:55,840 --> 01:55:57,080
Zionsville, no.

3149
01:55:57,080 --> 01:55:57,920
>> I don't think we need to have the

3150
01:55:57,920 --> 01:56:00,680
conversation or dive that deep

3151
01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:02,800
>> into urban versus rural and and this one

3152
01:56:02,800 --> 01:56:04,360
has this standard and that one has that.

3153
01:56:04,360 --> 01:56:05,680
I think that we just set the standard.

3154
01:56:05,680 --> 01:56:06,560
It's practical difficulty.

3155
01:56:06,560 --> 01:56:11,270
>> us for with that with that

3156
01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:11,640
» Yeah.

3157
01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:12,840
>> caveat, I guess.

3158
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:14,640
>> I I was not at the Town Council meeting.

3159
01:56:14,640 --> 01:56:15,960
I don't know the discussion that

3160
01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:17,080
occurred, but that would That would be

3161
01:56:17,080 --> 01:56:18,720
my argument is,

3162
01:56:18,720 --> 01:56:20,840
you know, the BZA members are the ones

3163
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:22,320
that are, you know, making the

3164
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:23,800
decisions. They're the ones that are in

3165
01:56:23,800 --> 01:56:25,440
the weeds of this thing.

3166
01:56:25,440 --> 01:56:28,520
Um what y'all need is discretion and

3167
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:30,400
y'all need flexibility to look at each

3168
01:56:30,400 --> 01:56:32,760
case on a case-by-case basis and make

3169
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:34,800
the decision that y'all feels right in

3170
01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:37,040
that moment for that petition. That's

3171
01:56:37,040 --> 01:56:38,480
often going to be urban, that's often

3172
01:56:38,480 --> 01:56:40,080
going to be rural, but we shouldn't

3173
01:56:40,080 --> 01:56:41,480
break it down that way. We should just

3174
01:56:41,480 --> 01:56:43,280
allow y'all to have that discretion.

3175
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:44,680
Make it practical difficulty for

3176
01:56:44,680 --> 01:56:47,240
development standard variances only,

3177
01:56:47,240 --> 01:56:48,800
and that gives you the discretion every

3178
01:56:48,800 --> 01:56:50,160
petition,

3179
01:56:50,160 --> 01:56:51,680
understanding that if you don't like it,

3180
01:56:51,680 --> 01:56:53,200
you can still deny it.

3181
01:56:53,200 --> 01:56:54,240
>> Yes.

3182
01:56:54,240 --> 01:56:56,640
Uh the Does this amount of discretion

3183
01:56:56,640 --> 01:56:58,160
change

3184
01:56:58,160 --> 01:57:00,680
whether the BZA is using unnecessary

3185
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:04,000
hardship or practical difficulty?

3186
01:57:04,000 --> 01:57:08,360
>> No, it it is still the collective decision of the board as

3187
01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:10,480
long as they make the findings

3188
01:57:10,480 --> 01:57:11,280
uh

3189
01:57:11,280 --> 01:57:12,720
appropriately.

3190
01:57:12,720 --> 01:57:14,280
And that there's evidence in the record

3191
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:17,160
to support the judgment.

3192
01:57:17,160 --> 01:57:18,720
>> As it sounded like we were saying that

3193
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:22,120
under the practical difficulty standard

3194
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:23,680
the project may actually meet those

3195
01:57:23,680 --> 01:57:26,720
criteria, but the BZA can still vote no.

3196
01:57:26,720 --> 01:57:28,440
Is that a Is that an incorrect

3197
01:57:28,440 --> 01:57:31,040
>> Yes, uh absolutely. Yeah,

3198
01:57:31,040 --> 01:57:33,200
the development standard variances are

3199
01:57:33,200 --> 01:57:36,160
under practical difficulties are

3200
01:57:36,160 --> 01:57:38,160
denied all the time.

3201
01:57:38,160 --> 01:57:41,160
>> Okay, but but not so as under

3202
01:57:41,160 --> 01:57:45,550
unnecessary hardship.

3203
01:57:45,560 --> 01:57:49,920
» No, it's still I mean, the

3204
01:57:49,920 --> 01:57:51,920
as as

3205
01:57:51,920 --> 01:57:54,960
and I'm I'm just to explain

3206
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:56,160
the way

3207
01:57:56,160 --> 01:57:58,400
we look at our job is to

3208
01:57:58,400 --> 01:58:00,000
protect the board

3209
01:58:00,000 --> 01:58:03,320
um from appeals to to courts.

3210
01:58:03,320 --> 01:58:05,320
So, that's why I keep saying as long as

3211
01:58:05,320 --> 01:58:06,680
you

3212
01:58:06,680 --> 01:58:09,400
deliberate properly and make your

3213
01:58:09,400 --> 01:58:11,400
findings and that the that the decision

3214
01:58:11,400 --> 01:58:13,280
is made appropriately

3215
01:58:13,280 --> 01:58:14,880
when I

3216
01:58:14,880 --> 01:58:16,360
it is

3217
01:58:16,360 --> 01:58:18,120
that's the best way to to prevent

3218
01:58:18,120 --> 01:58:20,720
yourself from being overturned if a if a

3219
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:23,080
decision from here gets appealed to the

3220
01:58:23,080 --> 01:58:25,280
to circuit court.

3221
01:58:25,280 --> 01:58:27,120
>> So, the decision of the BZA should be

3222
01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:28,480
supported by the findings.

3223
01:58:28,480 --> 01:58:29,040
>> Yes.

3224
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:30,160
>> And and whether it's practical

3225
01:58:30,160 --> 01:58:32,400
difficulty or unnecessary unnecessary

3226
01:58:32,400 --> 01:58:33,080
>> right?

3227
01:58:33,080 --> 01:58:34,920
But

3228
01:58:34,920 --> 01:58:36,240
>> It's but the findings for practical

3229
01:58:36,240 --> 01:58:37,720
>> Right, but it it yes.

3230
01:58:37,720 --> 01:58:39,920
Yeah, practical diffi- practical

3231
01:58:39,920 --> 01:58:42,560
difficulties is a

3232
01:58:42,560 --> 01:58:43,480
Well,

3233
01:58:43,480 --> 01:58:44,880
that goes back to my original point.

3234
01:58:44,880 --> 01:58:46,360
It's it's

3235
01:58:46,360 --> 01:58:48,720
development standards are different than

3236
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:49,840
use.

3237
01:58:49,840 --> 01:58:51,400
So, it's

3238
01:58:51,400 --> 01:58:53,560
practical diff- and by statute, it's

3239
01:58:53,560 --> 01:58:55,160
practical difficulties for development

3240
01:58:55,160 --> 01:58:57,000
standards. It's not unnecessary

3241
01:58:57,000 --> 01:59:01,150
hardship.

3242
01:59:01,160 --> 01:59:04,120
» Just to clarify, changing the standard

3243
01:59:04,120 --> 01:59:05,320
practical difficulty and unnecessary

3244
01:59:05,320 --> 01:59:06,240
hardship,

3245
01:59:06,240 --> 01:59:08,080
one or the other doesn't take away or

3246
01:59:08,080 --> 01:59:10,560
add to the discretion that they have on

3247
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:12,440
a case-by-case basis. You still have the

3248
01:59:12,440 --> 01:59:14,840
same level of discretion. What it does

3249
01:59:14,840 --> 01:59:15,960
change

3250
01:59:15,960 --> 01:59:17,720
is the I'm going to use the word

3251
01:59:17,720 --> 01:59:20,520
easiness, the ease in which a petitioner

3252
01:59:20,520 --> 01:59:23,160
can meet the standard. Right? So, right

3253
01:59:23,160 --> 01:59:24,120
now it's very challenging for a

3254
01:59:24,120 --> 01:59:25,280
petitioner to meet the unnecessary

3255
01:59:25,280 --> 01:59:26,880
hardship standard,

3256
01:59:26,880 --> 01:59:28,840
but if they by some miracle do meet that

3257
01:59:28,840 --> 01:59:30,560
standard, y'all still have the

3258
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:32,680
discretion to deny.

3259
01:59:32,680 --> 01:59:34,760
With practical difficulty,

3260
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:36,760
it's easier to meet that standard,

3261
01:59:36,760 --> 01:59:38,560
right? For the petitioner, which gives

3262
01:59:38,560 --> 01:59:39,920
y'all the ability to approve something

3263
01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:41,880
if y'all choose so choose to do so.

3264
01:59:41,880 --> 01:59:43,800
Um whereas historically,

3265
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:46,120
it was very challenging to reach the

3266
01:59:46,120 --> 01:59:47,320
unnecessary hardship standard. So, if

3267
01:59:47,320 --> 01:59:48,560
y'all wanted to approve something, y'all

3268
01:59:48,560 --> 01:59:49,760
couldn't because they couldn't get there

3269
01:59:49,760 --> 01:59:52,510
anyway.

3270
01:59:52,520 --> 01:59:53,960
Does that make sense? It's easier for

3271
01:59:53,960 --> 01:59:55,960
the petitioner to get to the standard,

3272
01:59:55,960 --> 01:59:57,880
and then once they're at the standard,

3273
01:59:57,880 --> 01:59:59,400
then it's up to y'all to approve or deny

3274
01:59:59,400 --> 02:00:01,080
it. Y'all don't Y'all aren't giving or

3275
02:00:01,080 --> 02:00:02,880
taking away any more levels of

3276
02:00:02,880 --> 02:00:04,400
discretion.

3277
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:06,280
It's just easier for y'all to be able to

3278
02:00:06,280 --> 02:00:08,080
approve something if you choose to do so

3279
02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:10,200
because the petitioner can get to the

3280
02:00:10,200 --> 02:00:11,720
standard easier.

3281
02:00:11,720 --> 02:00:12,640
>> Well, it

3282
02:00:12,640 --> 02:00:14,760
But I agree

3283
02:00:14,760 --> 02:00:16,440
with what you're saying conceptually. I

3284
02:00:16,440 --> 02:00:20,040
think legal counsel Mr. Dale's point is

3285
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:21,800
if we want to not get overturned in

3286
02:00:21,800 --> 02:00:23,600
court, we still need to fail something

3287
02:00:23,600 --> 02:00:25,240
on one of the factors

3288
02:00:25,240 --> 02:00:25,640
>> Oh, yeah.

3289
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:26,680
>> before we pass it.

3290
02:00:26,680 --> 02:00:27,640
>> Or approve it on the factors.

3291
02:00:27,640 --> 02:00:29,600
>> So, it Well, earlier I had said I could

3292
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:31,040
not meet all three factors, just think

3293
02:00:31,040 --> 02:00:33,080
it's wrong for Zionsville, and off I go.

3294
02:00:33,080 --> 02:00:34,120
That would be

3295
02:00:34,120 --> 02:00:38,430
a bad idea, so I won't do that.

3296
02:00:38,440 --> 02:00:40,160
Not until it's my last meeting.

3297
02:00:40,160 --> 02:00:41,960
>> I got a I got a question on the

3298
02:00:41,960 --> 02:00:42,760
>> Party shot.

3299
02:00:42,760 --> 02:00:44,640
>> on the process we go through with this.

3300
02:00:44,640 --> 02:00:46,120
So, like I said, we're going to

3301
02:00:46,120 --> 02:00:47,760
recommend this planning commission. Will

3302
02:00:47,760 --> 02:00:49,280
there be public comment at the planning

3303
02:00:49,280 --> 02:00:50,600
commission

3304
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:52,080
level? So, if there's people from the

3305
02:00:52,080 --> 02:00:53,480
community who have concerns

3306
02:00:53,480 --> 02:00:54,800
>> an advertised hearing item.

3307
02:00:54,800 --> 02:00:55,280
>> Okay.

3308
02:00:55,280 --> 02:00:56,880
>> Yeah. It's a public hearing.

3309
02:00:56,880 --> 02:00:58,280
>> Yeah, I just want to make sure we do

3310
02:00:58,280 --> 02:01:00,280
have allow the public a chance to to

3311
02:01:00,280 --> 02:01:01,560
provide some input on this.

3312
02:01:01,560 --> 02:01:04,200
>> Do you want us to visit use variances

3313
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,440
and as well as DSVs?

3314
02:01:06,440 --> 02:01:08,040
Or if this focus on DSVs?

3315
02:01:08,040 --> 02:01:10,040
>> Let's focus on DSVs right now. I think

3316
02:01:10,040 --> 02:01:11,480
we got our hands full with that.

3317
02:01:11,480 --> 02:01:12,520
>> Yeah, let's get the elephant in the

3318
02:01:12,520 --> 02:01:12,600
room.

3319
02:01:12,600 --> 02:01:15,160
>> one bite at a time. Let's see if we can

3320
02:01:15,160 --> 02:01:15,480
>> Okay.

3321
02:01:15,480 --> 02:01:17,480
>> build the trust with the with the that

3322
02:01:17,480 --> 02:01:19,480
folks will give us that additional

3323
02:01:19,480 --> 02:01:21,840
flexibility and our discretion.

3324
02:01:21,840 --> 02:01:23,120
Uh

3325
02:01:23,120 --> 02:01:26,120
and then we'll we'll see if that

3326
02:01:26,120 --> 02:01:27,760
solves our concern concerns. And I say

3327
02:01:27,760 --> 02:01:29,760
this like we've already decided to make

3328
02:01:29,760 --> 02:01:31,840
this ask of the planning commission. I I

3329
02:01:31,840 --> 02:01:34,200
don't mean to present it that way cuz

3330
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:36,400
um I want everyone to have a chance to

3331
02:01:36,400 --> 02:01:38,240
sit with it and and Amanda hasn't had a

3332
02:01:38,240 --> 02:01:42,190
chance to weigh in.

3333
02:01:42,200 --> 02:01:43,360
» We have a research a research

3334
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:44,080
assignment.

3335
02:01:44,080 --> 02:01:44,520
>> Yes.

3336
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:45,080
>> Thank you.

3337
02:01:45,080 --> 02:01:49,160
>> Uh it looks like there's one more

3338
02:01:49,160 --> 02:01:53,920
findings of fact for docket 202603 DSV.

3339
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:55,120
Is that just something you need us to

3340
02:01:55,120 --> 02:01:56,000
sign or

3341
02:01:56,000 --> 02:01:57,720
>> Yeah, so this was approved last meeting

3342
02:01:57,720 --> 02:01:59,600
and so a question for legal. The

3343
02:01:59,600 --> 02:02:02,080
findings the the petition overall was

3344
02:02:02,080 --> 02:02:04,960
approved. Um everything's okay. For

3345
02:02:04,960 --> 02:02:06,600
whatever reason, the findings that we

3346
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:07,840
sign

3347
02:02:07,840 --> 02:02:09,520
disappeared, never made their way back

3348
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:13,600
to my desk. So, this is now just to

3349
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:15,760
correct that

3350
02:02:15,760 --> 02:02:17,760
error. Um

3351
02:02:17,760 --> 02:02:20,280
do I mark it as the date it was approved

3352
02:02:20,280 --> 02:02:23,200
or as today the they're signing it?

3353
02:02:23,200 --> 02:02:27,150
>> Um

3354
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:30,000
I would I either way's fine. I would recommend

3355
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:32,320
marking it today's date. You the board

3356
02:02:32,320 --> 02:02:34,040
as long as it happens in an in an open

3357
02:02:34,040 --> 02:02:36,160
meeting, they can they can approve

3358
02:02:36,160 --> 02:02:37,720
findings at a subsequent hearing.

3359
02:02:37,720 --> 02:02:38,680
>> Okay. So, that's what I'm going to do.

3360
02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:40,160
I'm going to mark it as today's date,

3361
02:02:40,160 --> 02:02:42,400
but we all understand this was approved

3362
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:45,600
last month um and we just

3363
02:02:45,600 --> 02:02:48,240
the paperwork disappeared. Okay.

3364
02:02:48,240 --> 02:02:50,000
>> Was it approved unanimously cuz I wasn't

3365
02:02:50,000 --> 02:02:51,120
here so I don't know if I need to sign

3366
02:02:51,120 --> 02:02:51,160
it.

3367
02:02:51,160 --> 02:02:53,840
>> I believe it was.

3368
02:02:53,840 --> 02:02:56,960
But just to be

3369
02:02:56,960 --> 02:02:59,320
cautious

3370
02:02:59,320 --> 02:03:02,840
I only need three to sign it. So

3371
02:03:02,840 --> 02:03:04,760
Josh, Katie, and Jim

3372
02:03:04,760 --> 02:03:06,760
you all sign this.

3373
02:03:06,760 --> 02:03:08,480
>> I remember it enough that I know I was

3374
02:03:08,480 --> 02:03:10,000
supportive of it so I'm happy to

3375
02:03:10,000 --> 02:03:11,600
>> replacement of the two-story garage?

3376
02:03:11,600 --> 02:03:12,480
>> Yes.

3377
02:03:12,480 --> 02:03:13,520
>> Yeah.

3378
02:03:13,520 --> 02:03:14,720
>> I think it was unanimous.

3379
02:03:14,720 --> 02:03:17,080
too but we we

3380
02:03:17,080 --> 02:03:18,640
don't need to put Josh Martin in that

3381
02:03:18,640 --> 02:03:20,400
position. We can the three of us can

3382
02:03:20,400 --> 02:03:20,960
sign it.

3383
02:03:20,960 --> 02:03:22,160
>> Signing for me is more senior for you

3384
02:03:22,160 --> 02:03:23,280
guys.

3385
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:24,080
Bad move.

3386
02:03:24,080 --> 02:03:25,360
>> I already tried to make him counsel for

3387
02:03:25,360 --> 02:03:28,750
the night's meeting.

3388
02:03:28,760 --> 02:03:30,120
» 40 bucks from us just doesn't cover

3389
02:03:30,120 --> 02:03:32,240
that, does it?

3390
02:03:32,240 --> 02:03:33,760
>> Not that you're easily replaced.

3391
02:03:33,760 --> 02:03:35,400
>> Well

3392
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:37,440
on that note, I sincerely apologize. I

3393
02:03:37,440 --> 02:03:39,680
had a scheduling area. I was

3394
02:03:39,680 --> 02:03:41,720
a scheduling error.

3395
02:03:41,720 --> 02:03:42,920
Um

3396
02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:44,880
and I was at the Crawfordsville Western

3397
02:03:44,880 --> 02:03:46,800
Boone baseball game at Western Boone

3398
02:03:46,800 --> 02:03:48,760
High School which is why I'm

3399
02:03:48,760 --> 02:03:49,480
uh

3400
02:03:49,480 --> 02:03:50,960
not in my

3401
02:03:50,960 --> 02:03:52,720
uh regular attire but I sincerely

3402
02:03:52,720 --> 02:03:54,920
apologize for for being late.

3403
02:03:54,920 --> 02:03:56,040
>> And sound it out of breath when you

3404
02:03:56,040 --> 02:03:57,200
walk. You look a lot out of breath

3405
02:03:57,200 --> 02:03:57,840
walking in the door.

3406
02:03:57,840 --> 02:03:59,840
>> I didn't get a speeding ticket driving

3407
02:03:59,840 --> 02:04:01,440
so that was fortunate.

3408
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:02,880
>> Did you have to leave the game early?

3409
02:04:02,880 --> 02:04:05,640
>> Oh yeah. Yeah. I

3410
02:04:05,640 --> 02:04:06,640
>> Do you coach?

3411
02:04:06,640 --> 02:04:09,760
>> No, I was just just watching.

3412
02:04:09,760 --> 02:04:12,080
>> Oh, I I I guess I'm supposed to motion

3413
02:04:12,080 --> 02:04:13,640
to adjourn.

3414
02:04:13,640 --> 02:04:15,080
>> So moved.

3415
02:04:15,080 --> 02:04:15,760
>> Second.

3416
02:04:15,760 --> 02:04:16,840
>> All right. Thank you everyone.

3417
02:04:16,840 --> 02:04:18,040
Goodnight.

3418
02:04:18,040 --> 02:04:19,080
>> Thank you everybody.

3419
02:04:19,080 --> 02:04:21,680
>> Thank you. Thank you.