[0:26] We'll uh go ahead and get started uh
with the 2027
[0:31] Zansville budget workshop. Mr. Mayor,
floor is yours.
[0:35] » Good morning. Thank you.
>> Morning.
[0:36] » Uh good to see everybody here this
morning to talk through this. Um you
[0:40] have all received a copy of the 2027
proposed budget which breaks down
[0:44] spending by category and each town
department. Um and so everyone who may
[0:49] be watching online is aware of the
process so far. Uh the administration
[0:54] generated this budget with department
heads and our financial consultants at
[0:57] CRO. Then we took a deep dive into each
department's spending plan which
[1:02] included a liazison from the council and
I want to thank those of you on the
[1:06] council who helped in this process. It
was very uh productive and very
[1:10] meaningful. So thank you very much for
that. Um, this is not the final document
[1:15] that we're going to be presenting today,
but the process will help us stay on
[1:18] track to complete and file the 2027
budget by the state imposed deadline of
[1:24] November 1st. So, the goal here is
three-fold. U, what we're going to
[1:28] propose is a planned temporary deficit
funded by reserves that we built for
[1:33] exactly this purpose. targeted hires to
catch up after two years of a hiring
[1:38] freeze and a path back to positive cash
flow by 2030. So, let's begin with the
[1:44] big picture. Uh, we are on track to end
2026 with a reserve of about $40.4
[1:51] million, which would put our surplus at
about 85%.
[1:55] For 2026 alone, we anticipate a surplus
of about $3.2 $2 million dollars, but
[2:01] that is largely due to incumbrances that
were forwarded to next year and our
[2:06] supplemental lit payment coming in
higher than anticipated. And I want to
[2:10] point out and and state very clearly
that neither of those conditions will
[2:13] exist in 2027.
Therefore, uh the proposed budget that
[2:18] we have for you for 2027, we anticipate
total expenses of about $52.6 million
[2:25] against revenue of $51 million. So this
budget uses about 1.65 million in
[2:31] reserves again purposely and temporarily
to get us through this year as we work
[2:37] through the effects of sea 1, the 2025
state property tax law that limits our
[2:43] revenue growth. So at the end of 2027
um our reserves will fall to about 38.7
[2:50] million lowering our percentage from 85%
to 74%.
[2:55] And I want to point out that that is
still very comfortably above our minimum
[2:59] surplus goal of 15 to 20%. Now
therefore, um I I know a lot of you and
[3:06] I myself would not favor using reserve
funds for operating expenses because I
[3:09] think long term that is unsustainable to
do that. However, uh we do have a 5-year
[3:15] plan in place that shows that we can
spend this money now to sustain our
[3:19] operations and level of service that's
expected by our constituents. Once all
[3:24] current aspects of SEA1 are in place, we
should be able to achieve positive cash
[3:29] flow once again by 2030. Now, to get
into the details here, uh I want to
[3:35] start with employee pay. Now, due to the
way the calendar falls in 2027, all of
[3:40] our employees will get 27 paychecks this
year instead of 26. So, if we keep
[3:46] everyone at the same rate, they will
realize an increase in salary for the
[3:49] year of 3.85%.
This is not only a base salary increase
[3:55] for 2027, it will be the new base that
we can build upon in 2028. And if
[4:01] council agrees to this pay hike, we plan
to reach out through our HR department
[4:04] to all employees to explain in small
group settings how this will be carried
[4:08] out. But again, the proposal is for an
effective pay increase of 3.85%
[4:14] for all employees across the board. In
addition, we propose to increase our
[4:19] longevity pay for all employees who
qualify at every level. And notably
[4:23] [clears throat] what this does is this
raises the certified salary for our
[4:27] public service employees, public safety
employees, excuse me, which forms the
[4:31] basis for their retirement pay through
Indiana's public employee retirement
[4:35] fund. We should also note the state has
increased the employer contribution uh
[4:41] of PEF [gasps]
to 26.5%. That's an increase of 3% and
[4:47] the town will absorb that. We have had a
soft hiring freeze in place since the
[4:52] beginning of 2025 after the legislature
passed SEA1. And this budget proposal
[4:56] calls for adding several members to the
staff to support our current employees
[5:00] who I think have done a great job
providing services to the town while
[5:04] being a bit short-handed over the last
couple of years. So here is the proposed
[5:09] new hiring that we have. Uh it starts
with public safety and that would
[5:14] include six firefighters
also one IT professional who will devote
[5:20] the vast majority of their time to
serving police and fire IT needs. I
[5:24] consider this to be a public safety hire
as well. And as we get into the fire
[5:28] department and police department
budgets, we'll talk a little more about
[5:31] that, but this person would be working
under the IT department. Also, one
[5:35] person for the Department of Public
Works streets division to get us closer
[5:39] to matching our employee count to a
formula that includes population and
[5:43] lane miles of road that we maintain.
Also, a deputy director of planning and
[5:48] building to help handle the increased
volume of work that they have taken on
[5:53] and the reducing reduced staff levels
that they have uh experienced over the
[5:57] last couple years. Now again, we're
going to go into each department
[6:01] individually and uh talk about their
budget and personnel needs and plan to
[6:05] do that by providing an overview of each
and then then you can ask the pertinent
[6:09] department heads questions uh that you
may have. So I'm going to ask Chief Van
[6:13] Gorder uh and the fire crew to head over
to the uh desk over there as we begin
[6:18] with the fire department. This is our
biggest budget expense. Takes up about
[6:23] 41% of the overall budget. Now, I
mentioned hiring six new firefighters in
[6:28] 2027, and I do understand uh that the
department would like to have more,
[6:33] especially with a new station opening up
uh later this in 2027 in Western
[6:38] Zansville. But these new positions are a
first step, and they will cover both 27
[6:43] and 28. We have had several
conversations among myself, the chief,
[6:47] and council members. and we plan to
propose significant new firefighter
[6:52] hires in 29 and 30 to move the
department closer to its staffing goals.
[6:57] There is also the possibility of getting
more staff through a safer grant from
[7:01] the federal government as we did in
2022. I have asked the fire department
[7:05] to engage in that application process.
So with that, um, let me turn up go
[7:10] ahead here. You can see some of the
basic numbers for the fire department on
[7:13] your screen. I know you have more
in-depth information in your packets,
[7:17] but uh I'd like to direct you if you
have any questions or any concerns, if
[7:21] you'd like to share those with the chief
um and um Jason and
[7:26] um [clears throat]
>> Aaron
[7:29] » Aaron over there right now.
>> So maybe maybe it'd be good just real
[7:33] quick uh what format do you want here?
Do you are we going to hand it over to
[7:37] them to present to us or do you want us
to review? We've already reviewed this
[7:40] stuff. Do we ask questions now or
afterwards? Yes.
[7:42] » I think now's a good time to ask
questions to the to the department
[7:45] heads.
>> Okay.
[7:47] » So,
>> yeah, we didn't have a formal
[7:49] presentation. In addition, we're here to
answer questions.
[7:51] » That's great.
>> Do you want me to go ahead and lead it
[7:53] in?
>> Yeah, go ahead.
[7:53] » So, so as the budget leaison for the
fire department, work closely with the
[7:57] mayor and uh
>> Chief Van Gorder and his deputy chiefs.
[8:01] Thank you all for for your tireless work
and thank you the mayor too. Um this
[8:06] budget process was probably um this was
a much easier process than than past
[8:11] years. I will say that. Um I think that
a considerable impact on um the the fire
[8:18] department and the operations obviously
is personnel. We continue to talk about
[8:22] that at every safety board meeting. Um
when we talk about personnel issues and
[8:27] and staffing for the fire department. I
think that these uh six additional
[8:30] firefighters for this next year will
ensure that we can keep uh stations um
[8:36] 291, 292, and 293 open. Um as well as
adding to our firefighters next year uh
[8:43] at the new station 295 eventually when
it's completed. So um that that's the
[8:49] the biggest the biggest hurdle in this
whole process has been those six new new
[8:54] firefighters. Um and then of course
equipment and and ongoing things. So,
[8:59] um, happy to turn it over.
>> Yeah. The only thing else I would like
[9:04] to add is again was really appreciate
the mayor uh standing firm and helping
[9:09] support public safety. Not only is this
the six firefighters plan for 2027, but
[9:14] the mayor has developed a four-year plan
to address all of the fire department
[9:18] staffing needs. with us. I'd like to
thank uh our local 5195 union
[9:22] representative, our district trustee uh
Luke Miller for being here who's been
[9:27] instrumental in reviewing this material.
And I would say labor and management
[9:30] stand here in support of this four-year
plan to address the staffing needs in
[9:34] the fire department.
>> 23, right, in the four-year plan. Yeah,
[9:39] it's about 18 to 23 total individuals,
[clears throat]
[9:43] » which will be a a considerable step in
especially coming in 2029, 2030, right,
[9:49] is when we believe we'll be able to make
sub a lot of those those hires, which
[9:55] eventually as as systems be continue to
come online, this will probably work out
[9:59] pretty well.
>> Yeah. And the other important thing here
[10:01] is that uh the fire department working
with a safety board had been uh having
[10:05] discussions and prepared a plan if we
were not able to receive uh the minimum
[10:11] of six individual new hires. And if we
were not able to achieve the six that
[10:16] would change our service delivery in the
fact that fire station 293 in kind of
[10:22] west central area that protects
Stonegate and Royal Run, we would have
[10:25] seen a reduction in staffing and
services to the community there. Right
[10:28] now there's an engine and ambulance. we
would have to uh reduce one of those
[10:32] crews uh and reassign them. This plan
moving forward does not allow that to
[10:37] happen and fire station 293 remain
staffed as it is today.
[10:44] This isn't this is as expected fair like
because we knew when 295 was going to
[10:49] come online that when we took over Perry
Township um that this eventually was
[10:53] going to happen. Yeah, we we had hoped
for a little bit uh longer of a
[10:57] transition plan with Perry regarding
their dissolution. Uh but they had
[11:01] indicated to us that they're in a much
shorter timeline uh towards dissolving
[11:05] and going away. So we needed to act a
little sooner than what we had first
[11:08] anticipated
[11:11] » questions. Anyone [clears throat]
>> are you able to quantify? Let's I know
[11:16] zero is the low end, but let's assume
that the grant comes through. How many
[11:21] additional firefighters would that
potentially be able to bring on?
[11:28] » It depends what the application is. One
of the the questions always becomes the
[11:31] with a grain application is the town of
Zansville becomes responsible to ensure
[11:35] employment of those individuals. So it
may on the the front end seem like oh
[11:38] well let's put in for the balance of
those individuals right away but then
[11:42] we're also responsible to make sure that
we gainfully employ them. If not we're
[11:46] responsible to fund back those funds. So
it's going to be really a bit of a
[11:49] balancing act. Uh last time we did this,
we put in for six individuals. I would
[11:52] expect that number to be just a little
bit north of additional six individuals
[11:56] through a safer uh application. Again,
we worked successfully with a third
[12:01] party vendor uh to submit that grant and
we have not begun that process. The
[12:04] mayor has directed us to. Uh we're
working on uh with a director of finance
[12:09] and records and closing out our current
grant application. And as soon as we get
[12:12] that grant closed, then we'd be able to
begin to prepare for the submission
[12:16] process, which doesn't happen until mid
2027, mid next year. So the earliest we
[12:22] would receive funds would be 28 or
after.
[12:25] » Okay. So then we could potentially have
pressure on the budget in 28
[12:32] [clears throat and cough] because we
fund them, we get the grant, but then
[12:35] the grant ends and then we have six new
people that we have to fund.
[12:39] » Right? That wouldn't be till three years
later. So you start in 28, 29, 30, and
[12:43] then that would become our burden in 31.
>> Great.
[12:46] » Hopefully by that time we've everything
has starting to even out, right? And
[12:50] then those six we can just build that in
to existing budgets and then have that
[12:54] in to perpetuity. Right.
>> I didn't realize there was such a delay
[12:58] in the helps.
>> You get it for a couple years before
[13:00] they yank that money from you.
>> Yeah.
[13:03] » And I would point out too, the last time
we did the safer grant, there was no way
[13:07] that we could have anticipated SEA1,
right? you know, so when we had those
[13:11] six firefighters come into the budget
this year, that was a little bit of a of
[13:15] a hurdle that we had to overcome, but
now we're budgeting on a five-year plan.
[13:19] So, we know what our situation is going
to look like in 2031. Uh, and this seems
[13:23] like a like a very good solution for us
to pull those hires forward and and get
[13:28] up to fully staffed status sooner.
>> Sure. Thanks.
[13:32] » Just to clarify, if I can, um, and we
all knew that the we're all aware of the
[13:38] needs. We all see the
the the new fire station having to be
[13:42] fully staffed and and one coming even
further after that. So, we know we're
[13:45] going to have to add what another 15
firefighters in the next few years. Um
[13:50] the grant that you're talking about
would not be for the six that we're
[13:53] putting on now. It' be for the sixth the
following year.
[13:56] » That would be correct.
>> Just to clarify, um I guess it's really
[14:00] just a question as much for for the
mayor, especially for folks watching.
[14:04] So, all six of the new firefighters we
would hire this year, which would not be
[14:09] part of the grant, would be funded with
operational deficit spending
[14:14] uh for 2027, which I think we would
support. Um, but help the public
[14:19] understand watching why that changes
after 2027 and it no longer becomes
[14:25] operationally dependent on deficit.
>> Well, it does in 2027 and 2028. uh in
[14:32] 2029 we get closer to evening out in
2030 we will be able to control our own
[14:37] tax rate at that time and we can uh tax
at an appropriate level to fund the
[14:42] services that we need here in Zensville.
So SEA1 uh is a phased in product right
[14:50] now. Um so we're shifting I mean the big
picture is we're shifting from property
[14:55] taxes to income taxes to fund our
government. And as that shift occurs,
[15:01] you know, there's going to be a bit of a
deficit until we get to the point where
[15:05] we're less reliant on property taxes.
>> Yeah. I just want folks following along
[15:09] to realize that we this [clears throat]
is what we're suggesting now. Future
[15:13] council will have to vote for tax
increases on that shift to make sure
[15:18] that we're covering.
>> Well, it's not a tax increase
[15:20] necessarily. It's setting the tax rate.
Right now, we don't set the the uh local
[15:26] income tax rate
under the terms of SEA1. Right now, the
[15:31] all municipalities will be doing that uh
in 2028 uh for collection in 29. And we
[15:37] first receive those revenues in 2030,
but
[15:40] » you would have to have some increase in
order to cover these costs of
[15:43] firefighters more than what people are
paying currently. I
[15:46] » I don't know that that's necessarily
true. And and maybe Tim Barry is here
[15:49] with Crow. He can explain that a little
further. It's a shifting of of where the
[15:53] taxes
>> you're just coming out are levied
[15:55] whether from property taxes to local
income tax.
[15:58] » It'll be based on your
>> I understand that people are paying less
[16:01] in property taxes but action will have
to be taken to pass new lit revenue. It
[16:07] may be about depending on where your
taxes are in terms of income versus
[16:11] property. Some people are going to pay
more some people may pay less. Some
[16:13] people may come out flat. I'm just
explaining to people that they may hear
[16:17] that this council may have to pass a lit
increase to cover those dollars that are
[16:23] no longer coming in through property
taxes.
[16:26] » Well, I I think I think to be clear,
it's no secret that that a council for
[16:31] the town of Zansville will be required
to increase the tax.
[16:35] » That's what I'm just trying to have,
>> but I think everybody in the public
[16:37] knows that, too. There's no reason to to
>> We just went through this last meeting.
[16:41] » I mean, this is this is going to happen.
So I think I think it's just important
[16:46] to to have that.
>> That's my point, Jason, is that I for
[16:48] folks tracking and if I'm watching and
thinking, hey, there's gonna be a
[16:51] deficit. How why is that change? Why
does all of a sudden the deficit
[16:54] spending close the gap? It's going to
it's going to close through a lit. But
[16:58] no secret, but I don't know if everyone
knows that. I would venture to say if I
[17:01] pulled my neighbors, I don't know that
most people know that that's coming
[17:04] because they haven't always dialed in
every meeting that we have. In fact,
[17:07] some of our meetings haven't even been
been shown on television the way they
[17:10] should have. Go ahead,
>> Tim Barry with Crow. Um, I might add
[17:15] that the changes as a result of Senate
Enrolled Act One uh will change the
[17:21] local income tax
um from how it is allocated. Those taxes
[17:27] are allocated today based upon property
tax levy. As you recall, the town of
[17:33] Zansville is a loser in that scenario
because
[17:38] uh the town's property tax levy is not
as high as some neighboring communities.
[17:44] So, it is undetermined what that rate
that will be necessary to fund moving
[17:50] forward. But I will say that Zansville
will benefit in the fact that uh the
[17:56] incomes of Zansville uh the income tax
dollars of Zansville will stay in
[18:02] Zansville with the rate that is
established by the town council. And
[18:08] that may not be as uh high of a rate as
some other neighboring communities will
[18:14] need to adopt because of that levy in
balance that is taking place today and
[18:21] the income imbalance between the town of
Zansville and other communities in the
[18:26] county. I think that SCA1 has gotten a
lot of um negative undertones because
[18:33] it's easier for uh understanding that it
has changed what is status quo. But I do
[18:41] think there's positivity in SEA1 that
people overlook because they don't
[18:45] understand it. And I think um having
more control on our local dollars is the
[18:51] ultimate goal of SEA1. It's just
changing from property taxes that are
[18:58] divvied up not necessarily according to
where they came from. And Tim called us
[19:04] a loser. We're not losers. No. Um but we
are contributors to our county. So
[19:11] that's a that's a big point that I think
I believe is what they're angling to
[19:17] change with SEA1 that has the bad taste
in everyone's mouth. But I think this is
[19:22] the positive part of SEA1, the direction
that is the legislation. I think they
[19:28] get a lot of bad rap for this. And I
think this is the part that people don't
[19:34] understand that is
I guess angled to be better for
[19:38] Zansville. We can finally um pay for our
own. And
[19:44] the goal is for the balance of people
who don't have income and struggle with
[19:50] their property taxes to feel less of the
burden and the people who are making
[19:55] income to be able to have their money go
to their town. So that's my
[20:01] understanding of SEA1. I'm not an expert
on it, but I do read on it and watch um
[20:07] you know just different explanations of
it and I believe that is what is
[20:11] supposed to be happening per the
legislation.
[20:15] » Better for donors, not good for the
recipients, the net recipients. There
[20:20] are towns around us who got more money
because of their growth rate and um it
[20:28] will hurt them when it comes down to
what income level they are at.
[20:34] » Well, yeah. Well, Scienceville continues
to medium home values in the $750,000
[20:41] range, right? Strong income tax will
help support us.
[20:47] » Yeah, I think we're all comfortable
doing it. I just want to make sure folks
[20:49] at home are understanding why we would
purposely pass a budget that wasn't
[20:54] quote balanced on paper. That's how the
mayor opened the meeting. Right.
[20:57] » Well, I'm not comfortable with that. But
um I do know that sometimes when we are
[21:03] applying for grants and we have a large
percentage of reserves, uh we get look
[21:09] less favorably because it looks like
well you could cover it. So, this is not
[21:14] a complete negative either to spend down
your reserve a little bit because you do
[21:18] end up um looking more balanced. And
even the county where we just had the
[21:23] reallocation of the fire department u
requests,
[21:29] our fire department needs money too, but
we don't look as needy. So, it would be
[21:34] harder pressed to to go to the county
and and have them have just done
[21:39] [clears throat] a special distribution
for us. So that's that's another
[21:44] positive which sounds like a negative. S
spending down your reserves a little bit
[21:48] is not a bad thing. [clears throat]
>> Yeah. No, it's not. And and kudos to
[21:53] previous councils u many of them who we
owe the gratitude I think for having a
[22:00] $40 million deficit that we were to
having a $40 million
[22:05] » surplus. Surplus.
>> Uh yeah like that's the wrong word.
[22:09] » We're not losers and we don't have that
allows us to be able to do this. So, I
[22:14] think we've been fiscally uh responsible
in the last decade.
[22:19] » And I I would point out too that it
works both ways in addition to, you
[22:22] know, maybe some grants looking at us
less favorably because we have high
[22:26] reserves. Uh the rating agencies like to
see those high reserves and as we go to
[22:30] the market in bonding for the new fire
station, for the new DPW center, that
[22:35] works in our favor. having having those
high reserves
[22:38] » turns into that balance of that special
sweet spot.
[22:41] » So what would you say the sweet spot is?
That's what I was sitting here. Is it I
[22:45] know 20 15 to 20 is kind of our target,
>> right?
[22:48] » But when you've worked with the agencies
closely, I mean is 30% more of a sweet
[22:55] spot because then we're favorable to the
bonding agencies but then our ability
[23:01] maybe a question for Tim.
>> Worth of that.
[23:03] » It's high even higher than that. Okay. I
I think they'd like to see it as high as
[23:07] we can get it. Uh I think over 60% is
probably preferable to them. Um you
[23:11] know, we're not the only town that's
wrestling with the effects of SEA1.
[23:15] Every municipality in Indiana is going
through this right now. And I think the
[23:19] ra rating agencies are kind of looking
sideways at everybody in Indiana at the
[23:23] moment because of this unsettled period
that we're in. Uh but us coming in with
[23:28] a high uh reserve percentage is
something that has really worked in our
[23:32] favor and it's been been a positive. I
mean, the bonds for the fire station
[23:36] were 3.8%.
Uh, try getting a mortgage for 3.8%
[23:40] these days. You can't do it. I mean,
that's that's pretty good and that
[23:43] speaks well for what the market believes
about Zensville's economic future.
[23:48] » There are three things three things on
that point I want to add very quickly.
[23:52] Um, one is our ISO rating. Chief, can
you very quickly talk about how
[23:57] important the ISO rating is and why why
having new more firefighters for ISO
[24:02] matters?
Yeah. Uh the insurance service office,
[24:06] what you're referring to, uh has a
rating for the fire departments uh
[24:09] throughout the state of Indiana,
throughout the nation. Um and that
[24:12] insurance rating equates to what we as
individual property owners pay in our
[24:17] annual homeowners insurance premiums.
The lower the score like a golf score,
[24:21] the better off you are. We are on the
cusp uh of being a class one fire
[24:26] department. We are a class two uh fire
department. Uh we are evaluated for the
[24:31] number of fire stations, the proximity
of those fire stations to our residents,
[24:36] the response time, the staffing that is
there. Uh will the six firefighters
[24:41] ensure that we are a class one? It'll
help. It will not be 100% of it, but it
[24:45] is a big component of what goes on uh in
evaluating the insurance service office
[24:50] delivery of services to our community.
And then and then the other thing we
[24:54] didn't talk about um the the the the
increase across the board for for pay.
[25:01] How how is that going to go across with
the department?
[25:03] » Yeah, I think uh couple two two things
are very important in this budget to
[25:07] public safety, just not the
firefighters, and I won't speak for
[25:09] Chief Spears, but I know our uh law
enforcement brother and sisters in blue
[25:12] that are in the merit system uh is
recruitment and retention. Uh currently
[25:17] uh this year uh Zansville uh town of
Zansville ranks below the 60th
[25:22] organization in longevity pay. So we are
well below our neighboring areas. One of
[25:28] the things that the mayor has
implemented as part of this plan is to
[25:31] increase our longevity pay which will
move that up and help our base pay so
[25:36] that our incumbent firefighters as well
as recruitment efforts will be able to
[25:40] be competitive with neighboring areas.
We will not be the highest. will not be
[25:44] in the top three or so, but it'll at
least put us back up towards the top to
[25:48] be competitive for both police and fire
for recruitment and retention.
[25:52] » And what is that longevity years? How
does how do you end up getting the
[25:56] longevity pay?
>> Um, based upon state law, it says that a
[26:00] uh pension base is determined by base
pay plus 20 years of service unless you
[26:05] are a local unionized organization. The
fire department does have a recognized
[26:10] union. So therefore, we are able to
account for or accredit and add up to 25
[26:15] years worth of longevity. Some people
ask why is the police and fire
[26:19] different? Again, that's one of the uh
many benefits of having a union and the
[26:22] fire department is we're able to account
and add the 25th year of longevity pay.
[26:30] » Chief, I had a quick question about the
uh uh the budget that's in front of us.
[26:34] Looks like on 27 28 29 on personal ser
person personnel services there's a
[26:40] there's a I guess it goes down a million
dollars then back up. Can you explain?
[26:46] » Yeah, I would have to defer to Tim Barry
and financing records. I can tell you
[26:49] that we've been working on a five-year
budget with the mayor and stuff and I
[26:53] would say that 27's pretty rock solid
with all the numbers that we have and uh
[26:57] 28 and beyond are kind of some
projections right now and I'd say
[27:00] they're not quite finished.
>> Does that represent grant funding? uh
[27:04] that does not count take into account
any grant funding. I think it's more
[27:06] just some administrative administrative
cleaning up that needs to be done in 28
[27:10] 29 and 30 uh within the plan they have.
[27:17] » Can you speak to um the six firefighters
and the retirements? Um, are
[27:26] we able to continue to replace everyone
who's retiring then which would not be
[27:31] included as an additional person or do
we anticipate having some positions dip
[27:36] down as people retire? I'm I'm just
trying to follow when we have people go
[27:41] to training and how it's cyclical and
wondered if we would see
[27:50] I guess unplanned possible savings from
timing of retirements versus bringing
[27:56] new people on or is that anticipated
that we're going to bring extra people
[28:01] on early as people are rolling off? I
believe in the six months between
[28:06] January and July we might have a couple
of retirements.
[28:11] » Will we and will we bring an additional
two people on to be trained so that when
[28:16] the retirees roll off the numbers would
stay the same personnel wise but it
[28:22] would almost appear to be two over for a
few months or how does that work with
[28:26] timing of training?
>> You're exactly correct counselor. Um
[28:31] Zenzo Fire Department has been received
written notification from two
[28:34] individuals who are planning to retire
um at the end of Q1 2027. Um it is our
[28:41] intent to hire two individuals in in
addition to the six the so this is uh we
[28:48] talk about retirements. This is not part
of the plus six as we talk about it
[28:51] internally to our firefighters. Uh we
would look to hire two additional
[28:55] individuals. We would start them in
January. One may say, "Wait a second.
[28:59] You don't need them till April when they
retire." Keep in mind that when we hire
[29:03] individuals, they have to go off to a
22- week academy. And we actually won't
[29:06] see those individuals come to work for
us until June. So, they're actually
[29:09] going to be after where they are. We
will have a short two or three month
[29:13] period of time. We'll be paying both
salaries. How are we able to achieve
[29:16] that? Uh, a couple of things is one, we
have to just absorb those extra costs
[29:20] within our budget. It's not part of an
additional dollar amount or a bucket of
[29:23] money that we've put in there. But we're
also think about this way. We have uh
[29:27] individuals with 20 plus years of
service that have 20 years of longevity.
[29:31] Uh and we'll be replacing those with
individuals with one year. And then
[29:34] individuals with one I'm looking to HR
to confirm years one through three or
[29:37] one through four don't get any
longevity. So there'd be some cost
[29:40] savings there and going from a senior
employee to a more junior employee. Um
[29:45] you know from the safety board
discussions that the fire department uh
[29:48] has been challenged with staffing. We
have two current vacancies. We're super
[29:52] excited to share that through the
recruitment effort of Captain Campbell,
[29:56] our paramedic uh firefighter hiring has
gone excellent. We have two individuals
[30:00] that should be working as laterals,
meaning they were experienced
[30:04] firefighters somewhere else coming to
shift for us before November of this
[30:07] year. That's great. Uh we'll help fill
some voids. And then we also look to go
[30:11] back to that fair, excuse me,
firefighter paramedic hiring list. There
[30:14] are four more individuals on that list
and extend four of the six job offers
[30:18] that are coming to that. So that again,
we're adding paramedics to the fire
[30:22] department, which has also been
something we've talked about at the
[30:24] safety board level. And I'm sure as you
guys have traveled around and heard from
[30:27] our firefighters, we are short in the
paramedic field. Also want to give kudo
[30:31] to our incumbent firefighters that we
have three of our current firefighters
[30:34] that are off in paramedic school right
now and they will graduate in June or
[30:37] July of next year.
>> That sounds like great news.
[30:43] » Thank you.
>> Any other questions for Chief Van Gorder
[30:47] and his team?
[30:51] Okay. Well, the next uh department up,
thank you, gentlemen. The next
[30:54] department up is the police department.
Um, and we are not asking for new
[30:58] officers at this time. We believe the
department is currently uh well staffed.
[31:02] However, there are three areas that are
going to be transitioning from rural to
[31:06] urban. Wild Air, the courtyards of
Russell Lakes, and the courtyards of
[31:10] Heritage Trail. And obviously, very few
people live there now. Uh, but
[31:15] population in those areas will grow. We
know that for sure. So, uh we plan to
[31:20] propose adding three to five new police
officers by 2031. Uh but again, none of
[31:26] those new hires are uh in the pipeline
for 2027. And with that, I I put the
[31:32] numbers on the screen for you and uh
Chief and his team are sitting at the
[31:36] table to answer any questions.
>> Yeah, if there are any uh questions for
[31:42] Chief Spears and his team, I I don't
have any questions. Oh, I just let me
[31:46] I'll just open it up for real quick one
more time as a the budget leaison for
[31:50] police. I want to thank um Chief Spears,
Captain Samuelson for for their hard
[31:55] work. Um this this budget proposal adds
I believe the biggest biggest expense
[32:01] here is new vehicles, right? There
there's a few new vehicles uh that that
[32:05] we want to to add to the fleet.
>> Actually, there's a decrease in number
[32:09] of vehicles that we are purchasing this
year.
[32:11] » Right. Right. But we're still adding.
So, I mean, that's the biggest expense,
[32:15] right, for for the department this year.
And then we we talked adnauseium about
[32:19] about new hires, and it sounds like
again, as more neighborhoods come
[32:23] online, there will be a need in future
years, but but you're this budget
[32:27] proposal does not add any new police
officers to the force this year, right?
[32:34] And and you're fine with with that as as
we sit here right now?
[32:38] » Yes. Fortunately, we're fully staffed
right now. Uh although two of our
[32:42] officers just started the Indiana Law
Enforcement Training Academy today. So
[32:46] they're they're in uh some form of
training for the next several months,
[32:50] but once they're out, we'll be fully
staffed and uh and I feel like we're
[32:54] we're good for next year.
>> Very easy.
[32:59] » All right.
Any other questions for Chief and his
[33:03] team?
>> Thanks.
[33:07] » Thank you guys.
>> Thank you. Uh I'm kind of going in the
[33:10] order of size of the departments and and
uh impact on the budget. So the next one
[33:14] will be DPW and Lance is going to take
the table here obviously for streets,
[33:18] facilities, and storm water. We we'll
focus on streets first and you will
[33:23] notice uh in the request there there's a
request for one new employee um to get
[33:28] us closer closer to the staffing that is
commensurate with the formula that takes
[33:32] into account the number of people served
the number of lane miles of road that we
[33:36] service as well as I mentioned before
the anticipated movement of several
[33:40] areas from rural to urban. Uh another
notable item is Lance's move the Oak
[33:45] Street path construction to 2028.
uh we will work on obtaining rights of
[33:50] way in 2027. So the project is not
falling off the radar. It's just moving
[33:55] on a timeline that uh fits into our
budget a little better than uh
[34:00] previously announced. So um if anybody
is concerned about the Oak Street
[34:05] Pathway not going forward, it is going
forward uh albeit on a little different
[34:09] time schedule. So with that in mind, if
we could stick to the streets um
[34:14] category right now, any questions for
Lance on that? and he would be happy I'm
[34:19] sure to answer those
[34:28] inter lance intersection improvement
um there is there any big asks for next
[34:36] year in terms of you know where you want
to see
[34:41] I'm thinking of intersections like I'm
thinking of in front of St. house. I'm
[34:44] thinking of in front of here at town
hall. I'm thinking of 200 in in
[34:49] Michigan, which I know is in DOT's
territory. Is there anything in this
[34:52] budget for next year that that is a need
or a want that didn't make it in or
[35:00] » the needs and wants are many? [laughter]
>> Yes.
[35:02] » Um but at this point, there is no focus
project contemplated in the budget. um
[35:08] we don't have the funding in the
near-term horizon to fund the
[35:12] preliminary phases of any major road
construction even if we get a grant um
[35:16] or crossings or any types of those only
cover construction. Um Mr. Mayweather is
[35:21] putting together a list of the top dozen
or so um having merged the comprehensive
[35:27] plan which was recently completed along
with our most recent traffic impact
[35:31] study. So he is building sort of a
prioritized list of these areas to vet
[35:36] with the mayor and council as well so
that when funding opportunities do arise
[35:40] as far as grants we can be prepared to
do that and we kind of all agree on what
[35:44] the next you know one or two
transportation projects should be but
[35:47] the budget does not include any
significant intersection projects.
[35:51] » Could you could you speak real quickly
to the kind of the jump in capital
[35:54] outlays in 2028? What is that project or
what what are you looking at
[35:57] » in 2028? 2028.
>> Yeah, that's a little over. It's almost
[36:01] 1.9 million. That's phases three uh
phases four and five of the Oak Street
[36:05] pathway to connect. Originally, we had
broken this out into five phases to to
[36:10] make it a little more um by the bite of
the elephant type approach and
[36:14] affordable on an annual basis. Uh the
last two phases, phase three will be be
[36:19] under contract this year and probably
constructed next year. What we did is
[36:23] combine phases four and five because uh
they can include a bridge uh over the
[36:28] creek out west and then [clears throat]
a really small segment. So it it made
[36:32] more sense to spend a year getting
engineering completed so that we have
[36:37] more accurate cost. So when we're at
this point next year, uh instead of a a
[36:41] high level estimate, we could have
something more approaching a
[36:44] construction cost
>> and that would 2028 we would be able to
[36:46] finish the pathway at that point
>> in 2020 2028. We would at least get it
[36:51] under contract uh if not constructed.
>> Thank you.
[36:59] I think this is one of our big areas. We
get a lot of push back from our
[37:04] constituents that they would like to see
the infrastructure
[37:08] improvements um especially in the north
side where the c county roads are
[37:13] getting um crowded especially during
rush hour um or school hours.
[37:23] Do you work with the county to um pay
for those improvements or are we
[37:31] completely at the mercy of the county to
get something like 300?
[37:37] » We we work with the county and we're
always looking for opportunities to
[37:41] partner. There are some more some lesser
significant projects uh that could
[37:46] evolve um in the next year or two or
three that are partnerships with the
[37:51] county and INDOT, but those are still in
their infancy.
[37:57] » I'm interested in seeing the
intersection improvement uh the top
[38:02] dozen. Um
and I won't be afraid to say it. That's
[38:07] something I would consider midyear if we
come up with ways that um could help
[38:13] some of our traffic
uh congestion in specific areas as we
[38:19] look at that list.
>> Um I would I would love to announce that
[38:23] we're doing something major for everyone
that's frustrated.
[38:26] » Understood. And of course with the the
financial outlook, you know, we don't
[38:30] have money for these projects.
>> I understand that. Um, but we're looking
[38:33] forward to working with the mayor and
getting his concurrence and input. Um,
[38:37] and then he would engage the council
leadership to see what you wanted to do
[38:41] for rolling out our unfunded plan.
>> Right.
[38:46] It's just hard to explain that we can
use our reserves for some things. And if
[38:50] this is one of our people's biggest
complaints that we're hearing about, I
[38:56] think that this [clears throat] is not a
bad area to focus on.
[39:01] Thank you.
>> I I I would tend to agree. Thank you.
[39:06] » That's just since it came up the I think
I think a lot of people talk about 300
[39:11] which is a county project. I think I did
I not recently hear that maybe there's
[39:15] been some movement though from the
county to maybe move forward with doing
[39:19] something
>> on three. Is that an intersection
[39:21] project? Are you talking about the
intersection?
[39:23] » The the widening.
>> Oh, the widening. Uh no. I the
[39:28] intersection there are some intersection
projects under consideration but as far
[39:31] as overall widening throughout the
corridor I've not heard anything about
[39:34] that.
>> Thank you. Maybe wishful thinking.
[39:41] » Any other questions for Mr. Lance?
[39:45] » Thank you.
>> All right. He's going to stay in the
[39:47] seat to talk about facilities which I
think is pretty straightforward. I don't
[39:50] have any additional comments but uh the
numbers are on your screen right now. on
[39:54] Lance. I don't know if you have anything
more to say about facilities.
[39:59] » Uh, not really except there is one um
thing to recognize and that is that the
[40:04] mayor's restructuring of
responsibilities, the increase in
[40:08] services and charges. The facilities
maintenance division has taken over the
[40:13] billings for the security of all the
facilities and the cameras. That used to
[40:17] be an IT expense. Um, so we are taking
that over in facilities maintenance.
[40:21] That's the the really one and only major
change for this year, next year
[40:25] proposed.
[40:31] And if there are no further questions
there, we can move on to storm water.
[40:35] [clears throat]
[40:44] That one appears very straightforward
like you apply a percentage and it just
[40:49] goes up each year by a small amount.
[41:00] » Any questions?
>> I don't have any additional comments. If
[41:02] you have questions about storm
[clears throat] water,
[41:03] » I think we're good.
>> Okay.
[41:06] » Thank you.
>> Thank you.
[41:08] All right. The next department uh that
we would like to take a look at here is
[41:12] parks and recreation. Uh you will notice
uh and you have noticed taking a deep
[41:18] dive that it includes one new hire in
parks maintenance which would increase
[41:22] the headcount in the department. But I
want to be very clear it does not
[41:26] increase the cost because we're able to
move one of our naturalists out of the
[41:30] parks operating fund to the
non-reverting operating account. that is
[41:34] funded by programming fees which will be
sa self self- sustaining going forward.
[41:40] Uh and that is the first step in the
parks department's goal of having all of
[41:44] our naturalists uh funded by programming
fees eventually. But you know we're
[41:49] we're taking that step by step. I think
this is a very good step and it will
[41:53] certainly help uh in the maintenance of
our parks particularly this time of year
[41:57] when our seasonals are back at school or
back you know at uh other jobs that um
[42:03] they're not able to help us with
maintenance anymore at this time of year
[42:07] but the maintenance goes on for another
couple of months until the snow flies.
[42:10] So uh with that Jared is in the seat and
he can answer any questions that that
[42:15] you might have.
[42:19] I guess I would just say real quickly as
a leazison with the parks group, I I
[42:22] want to thank Jared and his staff. Um I
think there's there's no department that
[42:26] does more with less that probably than
this department and I think our
[42:30] community absolutely loves our parks.
They're incredibly important to them,
[42:33] but they're not they're not inexpensive
to maintain and to grow. And I
[42:37] [clears throat] think um if you look at
2027, there are some costs in there that
[42:41] are associated with the kind of the
growth of the parks in our in our town.
[42:46] Um but otherwise you've done a wonderful
job of managing the money and um
[42:50] hopefully we can continue to support all
that you aspire to do with our parks.
[42:54] Thanks Jared.
[42:59] » Any questions for Jared?
[43:04] » Thanks.
>> Okay. Thank you.
[43:04] » Appreciate it. Oh, is that we good?
I guess we're good. Okay. Uh let's move
[43:10] on to inter information technology. Um
again there is additional employee in
[43:15] the budget uh and this is the person who
will focus the vast vast majority of
[43:20] their time on public safety seeing to
the tech needs of our police and fire
[43:23] departments which represent 63% of our
employees and more than 60% of the
[43:28] budget and you know I will point out
that they do operate 24 hours a day 7
[43:33] days a week and the technical needs that
both police and fire have are only
[43:38] growing. Other municipalities have had
success in bringing in an employee in IT
[43:43] to focus specifically on those needs. Uh
and in addition, it will free up the
[43:48] current IT staff to handle more tickets
from other departments and plan for the
[43:52] future needs of the town. Uh the budget
reflects uh also increasing costs of
[43:58] hardware and software licenses and
supports our goal of maintaining
[44:02] security and increasing the transparency
for our constituents. So, all that being
[44:07] said, uh, John Emory is in the seat
right now and can answer any questions
[44:10] you might have.
[44:15] » Do we have someone overlooking um
consolidating licenses? Do we I know at
[44:21] some point when we're looking at the
claims that are coming across, we see
[44:25] subscriptions
for um a variety of things. Do we all
[44:30] run that through each other that we are
no department is paying for
[44:36] an additional license on its own or
>> say licenses what do you like anything
[44:42] » software supports or I don't know I've
just seen simple things like um the one
[44:48] that pops in mind is the simplest and
it's not necessarily it but like the IBJ
[44:53] I've seen it come through from different
aart or departments is there anyone that
[45:00] » so really the only software I guess that
comes out of it would be Microsoft
[45:04] office software ware um anything that's
um sometimes
[45:12] like secure access something that like
every department uses
[45:16] » uh each department has their own PC card
they everybody has their own
[45:23] whatever they want to get is up to them
and their department head and that's a
[45:27] finance policy it's not really me
>> okay
[45:29] » um but
>> it just made me think about it when I
[45:32] thought about costs that you have and
Um, it just hit me. I wondered if we
[45:37] ever
>> check that there isn't some sort of cost
[45:40] savings in um cross departmental
subscriptions or um
[45:47] » that's not
>> But you don't have anything other than
[45:50] » my stuff is mostly it's well my stuff is
all information technology related,
[45:56] infrastructure related and security
related.
[45:58] » Okay.
the new public safety it um where will
[46:03] that individual work out of well out of
town hall do you anticipate
[46:08] » uh probably out of town hall um
currently I don't have any more office
[46:12] space uh it's on the list to figure out
but uh the biggest hurdle I guess is
[46:20] getting it approved so we're kind of I
don't want to put the the cart before
[46:24] the horse so to say so I figured we
would get this through and then move
[46:30] forward Can you explain to us the
benefit of having this public safety IT
[46:34] individual um for you and your
department?
[46:38] » So currently I would say public safety
is 50 if not 60 or 75% of all the
[46:44] tickets we get all the on call support
uh public safety is 24/7. Currently all
[46:49] those responsibilities kind of fall to
me and I've been on call for five years.
[46:54] I'm not opposed to it. It just is what
it is. Um, but ideally we can get
[47:00] someone in. And and then the other
benefit to having a public safety is
[47:04] currently
all of or most of the knowledge I have
[47:09] from working here at this long is in my
head and I want to be able to get that
[47:13] out of my head and get that passed
around. So it it it's the the age-old if
[47:19] if the IT guy gets hit by a bus, uh, all
that knowledge is gone and we have to
[47:24] get that out and we have to spread that
around. So we don't have a single point
[47:28] of failure. And it single point of
failure is the worst. That's the worst
[47:32] you can be. And currently when it comes
to knowledge and help and things like
[47:35] that, I'm the single point of failure.
So we share that knowledge. We get that
[47:41] knowledge spread throughout our
department more. Uh we also have that
[47:45] help to focus on public safety. Uh then
then yes.
[47:50] » Does that sort of explain your
>> No, it's very very helpful. Just saying
[47:53] 50 to 60 to 75% of your tickets. Yeah,
>> are public safety related. That that
[47:58] helps me tremendously. So, thank you.
>> And I would throw in there, if we didn't
[48:03] have John, we would have a major
bandwidth issue. And I don't mean it
[48:07] related, I mean personnel related, but
he carries a huge load. Um, I think the
[48:12] addition of the safety officer is going
to let him recapture some bandwidth
[48:16] because as I sat through these meetings,
I just kept thinking about how difficult
[48:22] it is while managing the day-to-day to
be proactive and be thinking ahead for
[48:27] future issues. He's doing a great job
and and I think that the addition of the
[48:33] uh safety personnel or the IT safety
person is going to play out huge uh for
[48:39] the IT department. Would this person
work in that command center or just
[48:45] that's when you said where would they
work out of? Um would it be someone that
[48:49] would be needed? And do you know what
I'm saying? The RV or is that someone
[48:56] who stays here and works with them?
>> Person will probably
[49:01] » hopefully work out of my office. We're
just we'll just shift things around how
[49:05] we need to.
Uh, I would imagine there on between the
[49:11] will be four firehouses and police
department. I can't imagine they'll be
[49:15] in the office a whole lot.
>> Okay.
[49:18] » Um,
>> I was thinking that like is this kind of
[49:20] a remote help or would they end up
>> going from spot to spot?
[49:26] » We're pretty resourceful. Yeah,
>> we'll figure it out.
[49:28] » I I think it's a I think it's a needed
position.
[49:35] Just I guess this is a question towards
the mayor. So DPW mentioned the camera
[49:41] systems uh throughout the uh the town
that they would take over the
[49:46] maintenance on those. Was that at IT
before? Was that IT's programming before
[49:53] or and was that strategic to put it over
on DPW to give
[49:58] it more?
>> It is. and and you know when we had a
[50:01] change in our IT department a little
over a year ago um it looked to me like
[50:06] it was sort of becoming the catchall for
everything and I thought that if we
[50:11] allowed just because it plugs in doesn't
make it it so we allowed the the other
[50:15] departments to take more responsibility
for the things that more directly
[50:18] affected them
[50:22] [clears throat]
and I think I think it's been it's I
[50:26] think it's been helpful to John and I
think it's made us uh certainly more
[50:29] streamlined in in it and allow them to
focus on the things that are really
[50:33] important both internally and outward
facing.
[50:38] » Great.
[50:42] » Okay. Uh the next Thank you, John. The
next item is uh planning and building.
[50:47] Um the planning and building department
has been short-handed since the hiring
[50:52] freeze that we imposed two years ago
with the passage of SEA1.
[50:57] um I'll go ahead and take
responsibility. It wasn't we that
[51:00] imposed that. I imposed that. Um but at
the same time, the volume of work has
[51:04] only been increasing. So I think a
deputy director, adding a deputy
[51:08] director will help provide direction for
the department as well as help us build
[51:12] a succession plan in a department where
several key employees are either at or
[51:16] near retirement age. So this is uh we're
trying to be forward thinking here as
[51:21] well as uh give them some help in the
short term you know to to impose a
[51:25] little more organization a little more
efficiency um which I think is badly
[51:29] needed in planning and building. So with
that Mike Dale is in the seat uh ready
[51:34] to take your questions.
>> Good morning.
[51:40] [clears throat]
>> Questions for Mr. Dale.
[51:46] » All right. Okay, thanks.
>> Thank you.
[51:49] » All right, the next uh department is
communications. Um you may notice that
[51:53] the communications budget looks a little
bit different uh than it did last year.
[51:57] We've added a line for part-time help.
Uh but those funds have been moved from
[52:02] contractual services. So, it's really
not a budget impact. It's just a a
[52:06] change to the part-time line. Um and it
will give Alexa more support um
[52:10] especially as as more projects come in
line and and things that are, you know,
[52:15] specific needs. and and she's in the
seat right now to answer any any
[52:18] questions you might have.
[52:24] » Maybe you could share real quickly about
the contractual like what you're
[52:28] thinking about doing in terms of finding
some support.
[52:31] » Absolutely. So, um currently we actually
have somebody on staff part-time that
[52:35] can and has assisted me with several
projects um which includes photography,
[52:41] videography, and some drone work. and
having somebody that's already on staff
[52:46] but not having a part-time line to be
able to utilize that at a quick moment's
[52:50] notice um will be a huge benefit to the
continued success of the communications
[52:54] department. Um so that's kind of the
goal with moving so it's budget neutral.
[52:58] I already have a contract services line,
which most of these things do get
[53:02] contracted out, but having someone on
staff that's close by that already knows
[53:06] how Zansville operates is super helpful.
Um, and just makes us be able to get
[53:11] those items out quicker and more
effectively. Um, contract services is my
[53:15] biggest line just because I am a
department of one. So, a lot of those
[53:19] things, bigger projects for videos and
other photography projects still get
[53:24] outsourced. Um, as well as some graphic
design work. So, it does stay budget
[53:28] neutral, but it's going to be a huge
help to be able to utilize that option
[53:31] more.
[53:37] » Okay, great.
>> Uh for the rest of the departments we
[53:40] have, we'll go through a little more
quickly. They're pretty straightforward,
[53:43] but the the next one up is uh human
resources. Um and this budget uh is just
[53:49] showing normal increases from year to
year. But one thing that HR would like
[53:52] to do is a salary survey. uh that would
cost about $30,000 to assess how the
[53:58] town salaries compare with other
municipalities and in the marketplace.
[54:02] Uh and Joe and I have talked about this
and that's not an expense that I would
[54:06] like to incur in 2027. Uh something we
will reconsider in future years, but I
[54:11] don't think it's uh it fits into the
budget for 2027. But if uh anybody has
[54:16] any other questions uh for Joe, she is
available.
[54:21] » So my question is a pretty simple one.
So, you are looking to give everyone a
[54:27] 3.85% increase by giving them just an
additional paycheck. Is that correct?
[54:31] And
>> well, there are 27 pays because we're
[54:35] paid [cough and clears throat]
um bi-weekly, right?
[54:38] » So, there are 27 pays.
>> So, it's just going to happen naturally.
[54:41] » It's going to happen naturally and our
choice is
[54:44] how do you uh how do you not continue to
pay, you know, on that 27th pay? Um and
[54:52] different communities have have decided
to do it differently. Um one option
[54:57] would be to take my annual salary and
divide it by 27. But then every payday
[55:02] you are shorting me and I don't think
that's a legitimate
[55:07] » right
>> uh option.
[55:09] » So the the pay increase is associated
with just that additional correct pay.
[55:14] » But going into the next year that 3.85%
will not actually be factored in. So,
[55:20] I'm just wondering, are we looking at
pay increases on top of
[55:23] » Oh, it will. It will. It becomes part of
the new base salary. Okay. So, in 2028,
[55:28] any salary increases will be built upon
that. And and I will say that in our
[55:31] five-year budget plan, uh we have built
in uh a modest pay increase each year
[55:37] that we can adjust up or down based on
market conditions at the time.
[55:40] » Thank you. And what you will see on the
salary ordinance a couple months from
[55:44] now is an incre an increase of
everyone's salary for the 3.85%
[55:51] um to make sure that we're um
[clears throat] notifying and and making
[55:56] sure that the salary number is correct
for state board of accounts.
[56:00] » That's exactly why I was asking. I
didn't want us to have to then go back
[56:03] to go
>> correct.
[56:05] And Joe, just for the sake of the
council, can you explain the PEF and how
[56:10] it is scheduled to bump each of the next
couple years? I know
[56:14] » well there's a lot of confusion when
because lots of people say PEF. Um PEF
[56:20] is civilian.
>> So I I have uh PEF, you know, this whole
[56:26] group over here in in uh uniform, they
have fund 77, which is completely
[56:31] different fund. um the um fund 77
um committee or whoever the people are
[56:41] um they tell me they tell us there's a
schedule um for the increases for the
[56:48] employer portion and we have no choice.
We we are committed to that and so those
[56:54] are the increases that take place um for
every you know every employee in public
[57:00] safety
>> right but then we we do bump the PEF
[57:05] just to keep things kind of more in line
right and aren't there if I recall
[57:09] correctly there's some pretty chunky
bumps to the 77 that are already known
[57:16] » sure um and I don't have it's one or one
or two% % over the [clears throat] next
[57:23] couple of years is that have already
been notified. Um I don't have the same
[57:28] for civilian but civilian we're matching
um or we are doing the employer or
[57:34] employee portion too which is 3% it's 6%
for public safety.
[57:40] » The 77 is a huge chunk of the budget of
which we have zero control over other
[57:46] than hiring those firefighters, right?
Everyone pays into the 77. It's a huge
[57:51] chunk of our budget. So the the jumps
over the next two to three years are
[57:54] something that we have no control over.
Not that I'm, you know, it's a
[57:59] contribution. And I've I've I've learned
this too. It doesn't actually mean that
[58:02] the the public safety personnel are not
they're actually not getting more money
[58:06] out of this. We're just donating they're
just donating more money into the pot,
[58:10] which is unfortunate, but it does make
up a huge portion of um of the budget is
[58:17] paying into the 77. And that's in the
projections going forward. That was my
[58:22] point is just to let you guys know that
all those bumps are accounted for,
[58:26] » right?
>> Yes.
[58:27] » And will those people vest in it 20
years?
[58:31] » There's different schedules for whether
you're talking about civilian or public
[58:35] safety. And
>> minimum [clears throat] is 20 years. Um
[58:39] and then there are um if you stay
longer, you get a more larger percentage
[58:44] of your of the actual certified salary.
I have that correct.
[58:50] » And when someone does invest in it, it
just rolls
[58:54] » back into the fund.
>> Sure.
[58:57] » It it is it is the state fund, right?
>> And just like lots of retirements,
[59:02] you're paying into it, you're paying
into it, and you may or may not
[59:05] » reap the benefits of it
>> as as an individual.
[59:12] Joe, I just want to say [clears throat]
thank you for uh all your hard work on
[59:17] protecting that 3.85%. I think it's
important. I know the nuance and how it
[59:21] gets paid out. Uh which I appreciate
also that people don't have less in
[59:25] their kind of monthly budget. So, I
think that's a smart way to do it. But
[59:28] also, um, not we haven't talked a whole
lot about it, but, uh, in these dollars,
[59:33] it's we're seeing a flat, um,
maintenance of our health insurance
[59:38] costs, which most
>> we spent nine months, um, between last
[59:43] year and this year um, crafting a brand
new plan that, uh, we hope will um,
[59:51] result in quite a bit of savings. though
to kind of hedge our bets a little bit.
[59:55] We maintained a flat um expense for both
the staff and the town in the budget.
[1:00:01] » Yeah, I think that's important. I
appreciated hearing about that and
[1:00:03] really that it's protecting the same
quality that people need and expect. So
[1:00:09] just uh great job on overall.
>> Thank you. Also, just for the sake of
[1:00:14] the council, will you explain the
because I think it's a really good thing
[1:00:17] that you guys have done. Um, how the
benefits are being taken out because
[1:00:22] it's to the employees advantage is the
way that you guys
[1:00:24] » are you referring to the 27 pays?
>> So, in 2027, there will be 2020 there
[1:00:30] will be 27 pays. In January um of 27, we
will not uh deduct benefit expense,
[1:00:38] employee benefit expense. So for those
for different employees it's going to be
[1:00:42] a different impact whether it's
individual or family but it's one less
[1:00:47] you know deduction in January. So for
many it will feel a little better.
[1:00:57] » Any other questions for Joe?
>> Okay. The next department we have is
[1:01:02] finance. Um and you notice in here
there's there's money in the capital
[1:01:08] improvement fund. the CCI fund to
continue the digitization project that
[1:01:13] we have underway. We don't want to let
that fall off. Uh as well as moving the
[1:01:17] financial system to the cloud, which
will certainly make it more secure, much
[1:01:22] more efficient. Uh and this is something
that um you know, I I frankly think is a
[1:01:27] little bit overdue, but it's going to
protect us against, you know, a tornado
[1:01:30] coming through and taking out our
servers or something like that. Uh the
[1:01:34] information will be in a much better
place once it's in the cloud. So, that's
[1:01:37] that's the one uh difference in finance
this year, and Cindy is there to answer
[1:01:42] any further questions you might have.
[1:01:49] » I mean, it looks like Cindy's got
[clears throat] a handful of them here.
[1:01:52] If you just maybe just rattle through
them, go through them. Okay. Um, she
[1:01:56] also has Okay. The town court um
increased the budget about $3,900 this
[1:02:02] year to hire a Spanish- speaking
interpreter that the judge has asked
[1:02:05] for. Uh actually the judge has asked for
this the past couple years. So we uh you
[1:02:09] know kind of felt that the persistence
uh with which she's been asking uh means
[1:02:14] something. So we're going to put that in
the budget for this year. Uh there is no
[1:02:17] increase in salary for the judge. That's
$6,100. The prosecutor makes $2,700 a
[1:02:23] year and the court administrator is a
part-time employee uh in the finance
[1:02:27] department. and Cindy will also speak to
the public assistance administration,
[1:02:31] mayor, council, and non-dep departmental
uh budgets as well. So, um I can tick
[1:02:38] through them in order here or you know,
you can do it however you want. You can
[1:02:42] ask Cindy any question. She's she's
there and ready to answer.
[1:02:51] » Maybe just go through them, John, and
then maybe at the end if we have
[1:02:54] questions.
>> Okay. Well, there's we'll start with
[1:02:56] finance. Um, most of the money in here
is
[1:02:59] » salaries, right? And and that capital
outlay that I did mention for the
[1:03:04] digitization project.
>> Any questions about finance?
[1:03:09] » Okay. Town court.
>> The only question I have about town
[1:03:13] court is you mentioned uh the judge and
the prosecutor have the same salary. Is
[1:03:17] there any particular reason why we don't
tie that to cost of living like we do?
[1:03:23] The judge makes a little bit more than
than the prosecutor, but but yes, the
[1:03:26] the salaries have not changed,
>> but it doesn't go up, right? I mean,
[1:03:30] » right. The salaries have not changed uh
in the past several years, or at least
[1:03:34] as long as I've been doing this, their
salaries haven't changed.
[1:03:40] » That's a good question. We hadn't really
thought of that. Do they get paid uh
[1:03:44] bi-weekly like everybody else or they
get paid monthly?
[1:03:46] » Monthly.
>> They get paid monthly.
[1:03:54] Yeah, I mean they I I know it's uh
obviously it's an elected position and
[1:03:59] an appointed position. I know it's a lot
of work. I just wonder even though it's
[1:04:03] seems like a pretty minimal amount. I
just wonder if we don't
[1:04:07] seems like it wouldn't hurt to tie that
to the same cost of living increases
[1:04:10] that we get or anybody else gets.
>> Right. Okay. And I was going to Tim, I
[1:04:14] don't remember what um came up because
we were trying to decide whether or not
[1:04:19] their pay got compensated by the state.
It does not. Okay. Because we at the
[1:04:22] time we weren't sure if they got
compensated from the state as well, but
[1:04:26] I I guess he's saying no, they don't.
So, um
[1:04:30] » yeah, I mean I I guess um if it's
possible, I'd like to see maybe that
[1:04:34] tied to an increase. Um and then, you
know, Joe, I know you you mentioned a
[1:04:39] salary study earlier. I think AIM just
did one in 25 that'll roll out here at
[1:04:45] the end of 26. Maybe we can
>> you have that. So, does that also have
[1:04:49] judge and prosecutor salaries too or No,
>> I'm pretty sure it does.
[1:04:54] » I mean, it it might be good just to take
a look at that again. It's a lot of work
[1:04:57] and I know we're with all the
additional, you know, court work that's
[1:05:01] being done with the other municipalities
and us absorbing that, it might make
[1:05:04] sense to to revisit that at some point.
>> Yep.
[1:05:09] And in addition, starting from the base
where where we are right now, it
[1:05:12] wouldn't be a significant budget impact.
So certainly something that I'd be happy
[1:05:17] to consider. Um the next line is public
assistance
[1:05:21] and uh as the townships dissolved, uh we
became the township trustees. Uh and
[1:05:28] Cindy actually is the township trustee,
right? For
[1:05:30] » Yes.
>> Union and for Perry
[1:05:33] » and Eagle.
>> And Eagle.
[1:05:36] » Yeah. the uh this budget is is pretty
much flat um from uh the current year.
[1:05:42] Uh we've been able to stay within our
current budget right now. We did
[1:05:46] increase it significantly last year or
for 2026. So, um right now we're doing
[1:05:54] fine with the budget that we have. So, I
don't foresee any need to uh increase
[1:05:58] it.
>> Sandy, you're not seeing additional
[1:06:02] requests or folks coming forward?
Not not really. I mean, it's it's been
[1:06:08] pretty steady, but it's also been um
pretty level as far as whether they're
[1:06:12] asking for shelter, utility, etc. So,
we're we're well within our budget right
[1:06:17] now.
>> Yeah. [clears throat]
[1:06:22] » Okay. The next item is administration.
Um and you know, there you see the
[1:06:27] numbers. I don't have any additional
comments on this. Cindy, do you?
[1:06:30] » No. Okay.
>> Any questions?
[1:06:36] Okay. Uh the mayor's budget uh which
basically the same from year to year. Uh
[1:06:43] no increases for other services and
charges and uh you know then you just
[1:06:48] have the personnel cost.
That is is pretty straightforward too.
[1:06:54] The council budget.
Any questions about the council budget?
[1:06:59] Yeah, I think the um we we'll likely see
and we didn't get this to you guys uh
[1:07:04] Friday because we were going through a
lot of this on Friday, but with um
[1:07:08] changes to support to the council, um
we'll likely see some of those expenses
[1:07:15] being absorbed by uh Barnes and
Thornberg and then obviously others with
[1:07:20] um someone with within Cindy's
department and staff. So, we're still
[1:07:24] trying to work that out and we'll have
an engagement letter from Barnes that
[1:07:26] will detail that soon and then we'll get
that to you guys. But just for the
[1:07:31] public and for the council to know
though, there likely will be a change in
[1:07:34] this bottom line number of 306 because
we'll be um leveraging Barnes to help
[1:07:41] with a lot of our meeting prep. So,
>> okay,
[1:07:44] we'll look forward to that discussion.
And then the the final budget we have is
[1:07:48] the non-EP departmental. And this is
kind of a a catchall for expenses that
[1:07:52] affect every department like insurance
premiums, uh bank fees, ditch fees,
[1:07:57] bonding for the employees who are
bonded. Uh spending will be up about 2%
[1:08:02] and that's mostly due to higher property
and casualty insurance rates. So if
[1:08:07] there's any questions about that, u
Cindy is ready to answer them.
[1:08:14] So,
>> uh, within this budget is the food and
[1:08:17] beverage fund and and I don't know if
you want to talk about the food and
[1:08:20] beverage fund. Uh, currently we have
about $1.4 million in the bank. Uh, and
[1:08:26] the monthly gain that we've been getting
has been increasing a bit recently due
[1:08:31] to some new restaurants coming online
and and some new activity in that area.
[1:08:35] So, we're now averaging about $70,000 a
month. And, as you know, that can only
[1:08:40] be used for economic development
purposes. So we're proposing in 2027
[1:08:45] spending about 470,000
that would be 75,000 for the Booney DC,
[1:08:50] 30,000 for the Indie Chamber, 115,000
which is the payment on the town hall
[1:08:56] mortgage that comes from food and
beverage. Uh 100,000 for the new CBP
[1:09:01] office which will be a one-time expense
going forward. That would likely be
[1:09:04] about 50,000 a year. uh a h 100,000 for
the main street momentum business
[1:09:09] support project and then 50,000 for zark
the architectural review committee um so
[1:09:16] that is that is what we have in mind and
that's what we'd like to appropriate
[1:09:19] from the food and beverage fund and uh
you know if additional needs or desires
[1:09:24] uh emerge throughout the year we would
come back for an additional
[1:09:26] appropriation to the council
>> mayor what what's the what's the update
[1:09:30] on the CBP because a 100,000 are we not
doing the employee um
[1:09:36] » that that includes uh helping to fund
for that employee. So, uh the CBP office
[1:09:41] is currently being built out at the
airport uh as part of a larger project
[1:09:45] for Becks. They're they're building out
a new hanger and the CBP office as part
[1:09:48] of that building. Uh we are working in
partnership with Hamilton County, Boone
[1:09:53] County, Westfield, Lebanon, and Carmel
to fund operations there. Uh so the
[1:10:00] initial payment would be our share of
the um the construction buildout and and
[1:10:05] equipping that office appropriately and
then ongoing for probably the next two
[1:10:10] or three years it would be to help pay
for one of the employees there. The the
[1:10:14] plan right now is to have two employees
there. Uh and in addition to doing the
[1:10:18] customs duties, they'll be able to help
with um you know the the
[1:10:22] » global entry.
>> Global entry. Right.
[1:10:24] » Right. I was going to say clear pass,
but global entry, I think, is the is the
[1:10:28] exact term. So, um, you know, high
hopes. It's moving forward and, um, as
[1:10:33] far [clears throat] as I know, they're
on track to get that going in the first
[1:10:36] quarter of 2027.
>> Thank you.
[1:10:41] » Can you say those that list of breakdown
of expenses one more time? I wrote some
[1:10:45] of them down and I wanted to
>> Sure. uh 75 75,000 for Booney DC, 30,000
[1:10:52] for the Indie Chamber,
115,000 for the town hall payment,
[1:10:58] 100,000 for the CBP office, 100,000 for
the Main Street Momentum Business
[1:11:03] Support Project, and then 50,000 for
Zark.
[1:11:15] Total of 470,000.
[1:11:21] which gives us the opportunity to, you
know, leave some in that account for
[1:11:25] things to come up. [clears throat]
[1:11:31] So, [snorts]
um,
[1:11:34] the Zark 50,000 um, every year I feel
like the Zark I I I get comments from
[1:11:41] the people on Zark about 50,000 not
being enough or they they can't do
[1:11:45] anything with that money. is is 50,000
just kind of I think it's been that way
[1:11:49] for a few years. Correct.
>> It has been that way for a few years. Uh
[1:11:52] last this past year they haven't used it
or they haven't used it so far.
[1:11:55] » Okay.
>> In [clears throat] 2026, but it doesn't
[1:11:58] build up. You know, it is an
appropriation that's available to them
[1:12:01] to use as they see fit. If they need
more than 50,000, they can come back to
[1:12:05] the council and ask for an additional
appropriation. I I don't know that
[1:12:08] that's ever happened
>> in the history of Zark.
[1:12:10] » Okay.
>> They don't fund things at 100%. They
[1:12:13] they fund things at
>> right
[1:12:15] » a certain percent chunks.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
[1:12:22] [clears throat]
>> So in closing here, you know, I believe
[1:12:24] that this budget is presented protects
the level of service everyone in
[1:12:28] Zensville expects uh in the SEA1 world.
Uh and again, it will get us back to
[1:12:34] balance by 2030. Um, so just as a
timeline here, any concerns you have,
[1:12:40] uh, please share them with us by
September 4th, so we can be ready to
[1:12:44] post the budget to gateway, September
11th. That that's our deadline to do
[1:12:48] that. The first reading of the budget
and public hearing will occur at the
[1:12:51] regular town council meeting on
September 21st,
[1:12:55] and the second reading uh will be on
October 5th, and hopefully we would have
[1:13:00] final passage at that time.
[1:13:05] Uh, thank you, mayor. So, you want uh
any feedback from council by um the
[1:13:11] fourth,
>> please. That would be very helpful.
[1:13:15] » Yeah, I appreciate that. I think the uh
um appreciate your work and the work
[1:13:20] from the um you know, staff and
obviously council as well. And just you
[1:13:24] know, we've had couple of runs at this.
I know um you guys sent out the the
[1:13:30] 5-year plan and these budgets on the
12th and to everybody on the council. We
[1:13:34] all got it, reviewed it then again on
the 21st with final changes. So, um I
[1:13:40] don't know if there's been feedback from
there, but again, council, just as the
[1:13:43] mayor indicated, if there's any changes
you'd like to have, uh we need to have
[1:13:47] those submitted by 94 so we can have
everything updated again by 911 and then
[1:13:52] we'll hear that in the mid o or
midepptember and 1 October meeting. So,
[1:13:57] Heather, is there any anything you'd
like to add to that or any changes or N?
[1:14:04] » All right.
>> President Punky, can I ask a question to
[1:14:06] the mayor? Mayor, uh, we talked about
the food and beverage fund, uh, and all
[1:14:11] these. I know these aren't part of the
budget, but they're they're part I'm
[1:14:15] glad that councelor Samson asked you to
repeat them. Um, is you said this kind
[1:14:21] of has to go towards economic
development. Um, and I I I guess I'm
[1:14:25] just got a disconnect in my head. It
says town hall, the town hall payment of
[1:14:29] 115,000.
Can you help me understand the
[1:14:33] connection there between
economic development and
[1:14:39] uh how we're using that for those funds
for that payment.
[1:14:44] » Yeah. [clears throat]
>> And what your justification is on that.
[1:14:46] » I'm going to let Cindy answer that
because
[1:14:48] » she was decided. Yeah. that was decided
when uh we took the bond or actual lease
[1:14:54] out to build town hall. Uh so we we
actually get the payment dollars from
[1:15:01] about four different sources. And so at
the time it was decided that um uh the
[1:15:09] building of the town hall fell within
that category. And so um
[1:15:16] it was it was decided to use food and
beverage for a portion of the town hall
[1:15:23] payment.
>> And I think the the argument would be
[1:15:25] that building the town hall consolidated
public services made public services
[1:15:30] more efficient and that in itself is an
economic development tool. Having a town
[1:15:35] council having a town hall that is more
responsive and more efficient than than
[1:15:40] what we had before.
[1:15:43] You could also make the argument pretty
easily that all of the, you know, fire
[1:15:48] department uh meetings, you know, if you
drive out any any given, you know, week,
[1:15:54] there's a hundred police cars or fire,
you know, vehicles from other
[1:15:58] municipalities that come in here for
meetings and then they go out into the
[1:16:02] town, have lunch or lunch is brought in.
I mean, you know, there's certainly
[1:16:05] economic value to having a centralized
location for for public meetings like
[1:16:10] that.
just just to me it seems like a payment
[1:16:14] a payment [clears throat] structure for
a a facility like like the town hall
[1:16:18] should be coming from another uh another
fund as opposed to one that's funded by
[1:16:24] the the local businesses or that that
collect the food and beverage tax and I
[1:16:29] don't know as I look at the other boon
DC and the chamber and the CVP I can see
[1:16:34] that Main Street of course and then Zark
that goes straight back into the
[1:16:39] community and I understand
the use of the town hall. Um, but I just
[1:16:44] I struggled with that 115,000, but I'll
let that go. I just wanted to kind of
[1:16:48] understand and interpret your and uh how
long ago did that occur that
[1:16:54] » when we did the lease, which would have
been
[1:16:56] » so when it was first
>> 17
[1:16:59] » 17
something like that
[1:17:03] » and that will just go on into until the
payments paid off. Is that
[1:17:07] » Yeah, I believe it's 2037 is when the
town halls paid off.
[1:17:15] » Just wanted to have a little mini
conversation about that. Thank you.
[1:17:20] » You said there are four sources that are
paying into that though. What are the
[1:17:24] » the uh CCD fund, Oak Street, TIFF, food
and beverage, and then uh the general
[1:17:30] fund through lit dollars.
And initially for the first five years,
[1:17:35] the county actually contributed towards
the town hall as well, but that has
[1:17:40] since ended.
[1:17:47] [clears throat]
>> I would just thank the department heads.
[1:17:49] This is just another example of really
hard good work and appreciate being a
[1:17:54] part of it. Been through a lot of these
processes over the last seven years and
[1:17:58] they get better every year. So
appreciate everybody's hard work and
[1:18:02] diligence.
[1:18:07] » Okay. Thank you.
>> Thanks, John.
[1:18:10] I don't know that we necessarily need
like an official uh adjournment here, so
[1:18:14] you guys can just kill the feed in the
back whenever you're ready.
[1:18:21] » Thank you.
>> Thanks, everybody.