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It is 7 o'clock and I'd like to make a
motion to open the meeting.

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All
>> in favor?

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» I
>> um and the notice is uh that we're going

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to break it up in two parts. The Tuxedo
Club continuation of the public hearing

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for the Tuxedo Club one West Lake Road,
Tuxedo Park, New York. Tax Map 107-1-3-2

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regarding sound levels and seeking
relief from the following sections of

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the the village of Tuxedo Park zoning
code. Zoning code 100-18A

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fences no fence shall be over 2'6 in in
height and shall be erected without the

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building permit and the approval of the
board of architecture review in

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accordance with article 8 of this
chapter. Any fence erected in the front

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yard shall not exceed 4 feet in height.
Any fence erected in the rear or sidey

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yards may not exceed 6 feet in height.
No fence shall be located closer than 5t

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to any roadway or closer than 2 feet to
any property line. Notwithstanding the

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foregoing, no fence shall be erected,
maintained which shall interfere or

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interferes with the light or air of an
adjoining lot or building thereof. where

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in this application the maximum
permitted fence height in the rear and

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side yard is six feet. Pre-existing
fence was 10 feet and four 13 ft high

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fence sections have been constructed. Um
I'd like to um reopen the public hearing

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and uh and I would then have the uh
applicant um present.

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» Good evening.
for not being present with you for your

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last meeting. Thank you for indulgence
in continum.

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I'm Michael Susman. I represent the club
and I have made a written submission

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through your council which I believe was
circulated.

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Both sides have made I don't want to be
redundant. I want to share a few basic

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points.
Maybe you should use the mic. Sure.

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» Yes. Is that better?
>> That's better.

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» Thank you.
>> The experienced building inspector made

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an informed decision to permit the pedal
court knowing the mentions and

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[clears throat] qualities.
The courts were built in broad daylight.

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No one timely challenged his allowance
which of course was the required remedy

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for anyone offended by his use of
discretion afforded him. Any such

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challenge in my view is now unfinly
before its existence.

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The building specs decision moreover was
rational

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given as you just read that provision.
The lack of any adverse externalities

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associated with the size of the fence.
We know where this is located. We know

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it's located distant from any roadway.
You know it's located this many property

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owners probably
>> and the the issues which are implicated

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by the provision you read relate to such
externalities. They don't relate to a

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situation like this.
Moreover,

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there is no evidence or there's been a
lot of discussion about it of a noise

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disturbance. The noise study we
presented this confirms the conclusion.

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However,
in consideration of the concerns you

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raised and the light of my client's
history of fitting in and advancing

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community values,
we are prepared to add sound dead

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batting and fencing to the existing
tennis court fence next to the podel

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court as well as additional tree
planting at a cost of approximately

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$24,000.
We believe this should resolve any

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perceived issue and offer further
aesthetic consideration to those

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concerned.
Mrs. St. John momentarily will provide

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you some more detail as to that. So you
have it.

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In my view, in light of the statutory
purpose as we discussed a few moments

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ago, the varying slot is minor. It poses
no aesthetic harm or otherwise. It is

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required because a fence of the height
saw is an essential element or component

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of a pedel court which now does exist
and creates no issue for anyone.

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I believe those who oppose this facet on
to the magnitude of the variance but in

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my view understood holistically
it is minor and functionally

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appropriate.
Replacing a tennis court on the same

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profile with a bell court does not find
an expansion of use in my view. My

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esteemed colleague who I've known for
many years, Mr. Lynch, suggests

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otherwise, but I believe cites
distinguishable case law. There is no

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intensification of any non-conforming
use here, and the minimal differences

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between the racket sports makes any such
conclusion unsustainable

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and strain. If one looks at cases cited,
you'll see expansions of use which are

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meant to functionally expand whatever
the productive activity then going on

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was not a replacement of one byl like
activity.

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The statutory factors which apply to
area not use varies supply as I've

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explained in my submission which I won't
repeat favor this application.

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I want to say only one final word and I
don't mean it to be preachy but I do

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believe that it should inform
conversation.

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I recognize from my career it's been 15
years of advocacy

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and we live in a culture which is
characterized at this point by

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oppositionality and cooperation.
Perturbance rather than consiliation is

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pervasive.
Respectfully,

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this board, I believe, should accept the
mitigation we're proposing tonight and a

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spirit of cooperation to assist those
who have raised issue. The club has long

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been a good neighbor in this community,
as evidenced by the withdrawal of the

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request for lighting of courts so as to
minimize any new impact might be

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experienced by its warer here tonight.
Thank you for your opportunity to

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present. I would, as I mentioned, like
to have Mr. St. Sean come up for a

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moment and [clears throat] explain the
mitigation efforts since he's much more

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familiar with mine.

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» So uh we've identified a product called
acousta block and it is basically from a

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distance looks like a tennis screen or a
wind screen which are currently on all

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the carts that have courts that happen.
Uh it's a much denser heavier material

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used specifically for uh racket sports
pickle ball.

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It is the entire length of the fence the
height of the fence reaches

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approximately 10 ft. It will go in four
sections. a 15 ft section, a 53 ft

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section, a 60 ft section, and a 15 ft
section that are currently on what we

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call our temp score
three, two, and three. Um, we think that

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this will be as inobtrusive as possible
visually and match the current look of

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the courts as closely as we can, but
provide significant uh dampening for any

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sound that may be escaping from the
courts.

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Do
>> you have a cut sheet of it?

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» Uh, I do. I don't have it with me. J, I
have to mail it to you.

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» Would you spell that? I couldn't
understand. What's it called?

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» A K O U S E I C E L O.

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» Well, that's a good name. It's what
we'll see though.

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Looks a little more.

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» So, this would be the product that you
intend to use. And this drawing here is

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is is how you No, I think we should make
a copy of this and enter this into the

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record.
>> Absolutely. You might want to give

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everybody a copy,
>> right? Yeah. Could you make copy of

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that?
>> It says in there. The other thing I

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should say is that it attaches to the
existing pens and hangs off it. So

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there's no other structure that needs to
be added to support it.

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» Can we ask questions?
Can we ask questions?

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» What
>> can we ask?

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» Yeah, sure.
as your acitician studied this with

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regards to the proximity of the Michans
and other people who have complained

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about noise
to to determine whether this does indeed

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mitigate noise coming from the pedel
court.

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» Studies on this product have shown it
mitigates noise coming from Padell and

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pickle ball courts.
>> But the acistician that you had hired

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that they folded it into their review.
No,

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» we did not have the sound study p

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Thank you.

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» Attorney speak.
>> Does anyone else want to be heard?

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» Well, I'm sure there are other people
want to be heard, but if you raised if

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you raised your hand first, then you
could speak.

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chairperson and members of the board.
Thank you very much. Dennis Lynch for my

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clients who are present here tonight. Um
I always take to heart what Mr. Susman

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says because he's a fantastic attorney
and what he said tonight about

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collaboration and not being
oppositional.

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That's the first time I've heard that
and we welcome that. And if there is

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going to be some type of mitigation
uh whether it's trees or some type of uh

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material there uh I think it behooves
the board to find out what that is. One

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of the me members of the board raised
the question about you know the studies

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or impact and come back uh between now
and the next planning next BCA meeting

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with a plan. what's the plan on the
shrubbery? What's the plan on this?

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What's the plan on that? You know, we
welcome uh mitigating efforts, but to

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come tonight at the last minute and
present something which I would say is

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somewhat amorphous and especially
because a letter was just handed up

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which we don't have a copy yet, but even
if we get a copy tonight, we need time

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to take a look at it. Uh so I'm not
suggesting that you know we just

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postpone things for the sake of but I
think it there are going to be

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mitigation measures.
We should see those in black and white.

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We should see them in drawing. They
should be submitted and certainly uh I

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think that might go a long way to try to
resolve this. I assume everybody here on

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the board has gotten a copy of the order
from last week.

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» I made sure that we got it early because
no one board members was concerned

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before. So, I'm not going to repeat
everything in there. The night is long,

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but just a few points that Mr. Susman
made. Number one, uh, we have never seen

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a cloak decision by John Ledwick. We
foiled the papers. We looked at the

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documents. We never saw a quote
decision. And, um, and certainly if we

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saw that, we could take action, but we
haven't seen that. Now, if there's some

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decision somewhere that we haven't seen,
I would ask that be produced. We can

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take a look at it. The other points that
Mr. Susman raised, um I I think I've

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addressed them in my letter to the to
the board. Um you know,

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no permit application for the PEL court,
no decision on the permit application

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for the PEL court. Um you know, we
raising other issues about the ARB not

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being involved, the construction that is
construction, the disturbance of the

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soil. I mean, I know this board and this
village is very concerned about

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environmental issues and I think that
the construction has brought about

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issues that have to be looked at. So,
not to delay the time, we respect you as

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volunteers being here. Uh, but I
certainly think that um my my letter

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sets forth our position and again, if
there's something that's going to be new

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that's going to make a difference that
may actually resolve it, I think it's

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00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:35,519
comment upon the board to adjourn the
meeting tonight, give us a chance to

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review it. I'm happy to speak with Mr.
Susman. He's always a pleasure to speak

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00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:44,680
with and um we can try to resolve it if
we can. So, thank you for your time.

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00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,680
Appreciate it.

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00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:57,560
» Uh are there any other members of the
public that wish to speak at this time?

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00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:13,760
Thank you. My name is Stephanie Brenna.
I speak as a private resident, not as

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00:14:10,959 --> 00:14:20,079
not in relation to the B
where I work sometimes. Um, I would urge

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people
if something could be found to please

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consider the wildlife. I've been on the
board of New York City's Wild Bird Fund

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00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:38,480
for nine years and I know what glass
does to birds. Every broken neck of

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every daddy cardinal will cause all the
nestlings to starve to death. Um would

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00:14:41,839 --> 00:14:50,560
would anyone like to enjoy paddle cord?
With that in mind, I already know that

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dead birds are found within these glass
walls that no bird can possibly see. And

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00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:01,440
it's I think it's just so cruel, you
know. It's paddle board is or whatever

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00:14:59,279 --> 00:15:08,000
you call it. Paddle board is is to do
with enjoying yourself in nature, a

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sporting activity with your friends and
having fun. I think you can have fun in

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nature without glass walls and without
crucifying your neighbors with this

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00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:24,639
sound. I if it was me, I would just take
the thing down and play tennis.

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it, you know, it's like like everyone
does. It's it's fun. We don't need

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00:15:26,639 --> 00:15:37,519
another fad. We don't need to kill
wildlife for a fad. America used to have

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a parrot. It's now extinct because women
in the 19th century thought it would

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they looked prettier with a green
feather on their head.

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00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:52,240
That's what we're doing here. We're
destroying these birds for a for a fed.

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00:15:49,839 --> 00:15:56,720
In one region in Spain where paddle
courts have been introduced,

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00:15:54,560 --> 00:16:03,199
75,000
birds were counted dead in one season.

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00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:08,079
So there are many more than you think.
And um I'd really like you I'd beg you

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00:16:05,839 --> 00:16:12,639
to consider it because many of the
residents that are paying taxes here

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00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:19,199
come here because of the beauty of the
nature that people love listening to the

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00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:22,600
birds and the silence. So thank you so
much for listening.

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00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:33,000
» Any other comments?

188
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:41,920
So unwind.
>> I'd like I'd like to comment.

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00:16:38,639 --> 00:16:46,399
» Hi Chrissy Corridor 81 Lauraard
and um we've been members of the club

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00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:52,160
for eight years. We've been across the
street for eight years. Um we're not big

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00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:58,639
brackets people. We're recently
introduced to tennis and to pedal. But I

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00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:03,680
will say that in the summer there's no
more joyous sound to us than sitting

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00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:09,199
outside on our patio and listening to
tennis balls and listening to bell balls

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00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:14,319
and listening to children and listening
to people having fun. We actually sit

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00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:19,600
outside at night and we listen to it and
we set up our dinner out there and we

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00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:24,559
just love it and it's part of summer for
us and part of the noise of summer and

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00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:29,440
also one of the reasons we chose to live
across the street from a tennis club and

198
00:17:27,679 --> 00:17:34,400
from a pool. There are a lot of
different places to live in Tuxedo Park.

199
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:40,880
And if you choose to live across from a
club and a tennis club and a pool, those

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00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:46,080
are the noises. We find it joyous. That
was our choice. And you know, we're in

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00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:52,480
huge support. Again, we're not big
rackets players, but it's just a fun

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00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:58,919
sound. It's just it's it's it's summer
for us, and so we're in complete favor

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00:17:55,120 --> 00:17:58,919
and complete support.

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00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:10,280
there else?

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00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:25,919
» Uh, Robert Lopez. Uh, my wife and I are
residents at 75 Summit Road uh just

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00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:32,320
above uh the club. Uh residents for 5
years now. um and members also for 5

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00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:37,360
years. I couldn't agree more uh with
Miss Crawford and um those residents

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00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:41,760
that the PEL courts since they've been
installed have like increased the fabric

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00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:47,200
of the community uh the members of the
club. It's been uh an incredible

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experience uh a great time uh in the
summer uh and a great experience overall

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and bringing more of the residents in
the club. And I couldn't agree more that

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if you do live near the club like you
should expect there to be a little bit

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more traffic there should you should
expect there to be a little bit more

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00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:06,880
noise. If you live near a pool uh that's
kind of one of the the the aspects of it

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happening. And so I think that you know
we drive by it every single day. Um, and

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it's been a great addition to the
overall community, uh, to the club and,

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uh, I couldn't I couldn't agree more
with, uh, Miss Crawford and and her

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statement. So, uh, thank you very much
and appreciate it.

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» I guess I have a question for for Randy.
this the the the proposal and the

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estimate for acousta block is is this
what you intend to do everything that's

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in this and and the drawing that shows
where you're going to be placing it that

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that is the intent
>> that's the intent and then that's the

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existing fence for the current port two
and three and terms of the tree plan

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question right along we've had all every
plan to replace I think it was five

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trees been took down, a couple were
dead, a couple were drainage issues,

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whatever it might have been. But we've
always had that plan and we're actually

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working on the species plan right now to
do probably late September because

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obviously we're not
>> planting trees right now, but the plan

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would be to do those in late September.
>> Now the this material is this material

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available?
>> Yes.

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00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:34,880
» How how soon could something like this
be installed? If if this is process

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approved, I'll place the order tomorrow.
So, I don't know exactly how long it

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will take, but I can place the order
tomorrow.

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00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,159
» I have a question. Oh, sorry.
>> Yeah, you want everybody to finish

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00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:45,840
first, I guess.
>> Oh, sorry.

236
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» Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> Oh, no. I'm just like, it sounds like a

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good idea, but what if it doesn't
prevent the sound that we're getting? We

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don't get a lovely, you know, little
tennis sound. We get a gunshot sound

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around the clock.
[snorts and clears throat] So, what if

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it doesn't prevent the sound? material
does take the decibb down. I mean, I'm

241
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familiar with this material. It does
take the decibb down. To say how much it

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00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:11,840
comes down, I can't tell. And until you
put it up, you're really not going to be

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00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:15,120
able to. But it does lessen the noise.
>> Well, no, I'm familiar with the

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material, too.
>> Um, and it is a matter of how it's

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00:21:17,039 --> 00:21:25,840
placed. It's a matter of contours of the
land, trees,

246
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:30,480
wind, exposure, lots of things that I'm
not an expert to just to make a

247
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:37,440
determination and certainly not on the
spot. It requires an acoustician or

248
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:41,520
you're not taking this seriously enough.
>> That's just a fact.

249
00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:45,520
» You mean to install it and
>> just throw it out on the table and ask

250
00:21:43,679 --> 00:21:51,440
us to look at it right here and now.
>> Oh yeah. and believe what the applicant

251
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:57,600
is saying without hearing an independent
scientist at Hustision say yes this will

252
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work under these conditions to mitigate
the Marshon's sound issue the uh the

253
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:06,960
other person who came last time who said
she can hear it

254
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:12,720
» guath
>> she's way up a valley

255
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:19,600
» it just doesn't seem fair
>> we can we can also profess From the

256
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:25,120
beginning I have said
>> from the beginning I have

257
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:30,000
» quiet from the beginning I have said
that if we can properly mitigate this

258
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that is the way to make everyone happy.
I have asked practically beg

259
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:41,520
» that we do a study. Let the experts
decide this and you're not. It doesn't

260
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:45,240
sound like anybody wants to if they want
to install this tomorrow.

261
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:56,039
» Their hands raised on the on the zoom.
Somebody else wants to talk.

262
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,039
» Mr. singing quarter.

263
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:04,960
» Who else was
>> can you guys hear me?

264
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:11,120
» Okay.
>> Hi everyone. Drew Singh, uh 37 Fox Hill.

265
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:16,720
Um you know, I just just want to say
that I myself uh been a tennis player

266
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:23,360
for
35 years. Uh, and you know, I've

267
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:28,640
certainly played Padell a few times, uh,
but I've probably played tennis 10 times

268
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:33,919
for every time I play Pedell. And just
want to add, uh, to some of the

269
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:38,320
sentiments here where, uh, having the
life, the energy, watching kids learn to

270
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:42,080
play racket sports. It's so much easier
to pick it up. uh bringing so many

271
00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,919
members of the community that I mean
tennis is just it's it's a it's a pretty

272
00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:50,000
challenging game and it's something
where it doesn't it makes it difficult

273
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:53,440
to get started
>> and you know from [clears throat] my

274
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:59,440
perspective I think this just really
rounds out our rackage program and uh

275
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:05,600
sports and offerings and you know having
such life and such vibrance brought into

276
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:13,440
the community. Um, I thought, uh, Miss
Crawford said it so well, uh, that it

277
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:20,960
really brings energy and energy handful
of months a year. Uh, and I'm a huge

278
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:26,640
proponent um, of the
Padell courts, which by the way, as as

279
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:30,320
described by council, really are a near
identical use, right? You're taking one

280
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:36,240
racket sport and putting in another
racket sport. Uh and uh uh but I do

281
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:42,799
think at the same time it adds so much
to the community uh beyond uh just

282
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:46,320
having yet another tennis court there.
And this is just coming from someone who

283
00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:53,440
again plays much more tennis than
Podell, but I'm a big fan of it.

284
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:57,200
» Can I respond to that? I would like it
across from your house, too. Okay. Then

285
00:24:56,159 --> 00:25:00,720
I wouldn't have to
>> What I would say is that there there was

286
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:05,360
a tennis court already across from your
house. is my point, right? So, the

287
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:09,120
reality is that there there were already
but this gives you an opportunity to but

288
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:11,520
the reality is that if you could have
the other tennis courts replaced, right?

289
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:16,240
Because
>> we can't have back and forth going

290
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,000
you can't you can't you can't have back
and forth please.

291
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:21,039
» Nothing like
>> entitled to his opinion.

292
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:25,440
» Yeah, you're entitled to
>> years we've never complained about

293
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:32,080
tennis. It's a different sound. It's a
gunshot loud popping sound that goes

294
00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:34,720
into December round the clock.
>> Come hear it.

295
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:37,200
» I'm gonna have to call for order.
Really?

296
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:40,799
» I'm going to have to call for order.
>> Oh, you said no. Back and forth. Okay.

297
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:45,000
You had your opportunity to speak before
>> and someone is waiting to speak.

298
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:52,000
» Hi, Shander Mesler. I live at 15
Clubhouse Road Extension, which puts me

299
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:55,679
almost backtoback with Bisquoffne who I
understand spoke at the last meeting.

300
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,039
So, I I would just like to add a
slightly different angle to this

301
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:03,120
conversation. So, I I'm sympathetic to
the neighbors and the noise. I mean, I

302
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,320
sit in my Yeah, spend Sundays and I can
hear the music in the pool for sure.

303
00:26:04,799 --> 00:26:11,279
It's not my favorite music, so I often
turn on other music. Um, but what I

304
00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:14,880
would add to this conversation in
support of the club putting in the

305
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:21,360
chords or having maintaining the chords
is that we all benefit as neighbors to

306
00:26:17,919 --> 00:26:25,919
the club from having a healthy club. And
my understanding is that membership has

307
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:30,880
been on a downtrend and I do see when I
tell my friends in New York City that we

308
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,720
have Padell there, you know, they're
very peaked. I understand that it's it's

309
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:38,159
a fattish trend and it's kind of trendy
right now, but I do think it's it's

310
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,440
definitely a sport that's here to stay
and I think it will attract new members

311
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,440
to the club and I think we all benefit
from having a healthy, robust club

312
00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:49,679
membership. So, I just wanted to add
that sentiment, but I I also appreciate

313
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:54,240
the sound concerns because I am
neighbors of Miss Guapne and I can hear

314
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:57,840
it, but I there's trade-offs as with
everything.

315
00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:04,559
» Thank you.
>> May I ask Randy something?

316
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:10,159
» Uh Randy, we got a lot of emails the
board uh from Lindseay Maxwell about

317
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:16,480
trees. Is that part of your plan or was
that his own plan? I didn't quite get

318
00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:21,120
it. Uh Mr. Maxwell is on our landscaping
committee. He has taken it upon himself.

319
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,080
I received those late this afternoon
right before this meeting. I haven't

320
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,919
looked at
>> um we will look at those within the

321
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,679
landscape committee as well as our
superintendent. There's responsibility

322
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,960
for all plantings, but we're still
developing the plan at this point. We

323
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:42,559
have a list of species obviously
that'll, you know, be within the

324
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:46,480
code of the park, but we have don't we
don't have a finalized plan yet. He's

325
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:50,880
just adding and supporting it.
>> That's right. And and about um with with

326
00:27:48,799 --> 00:27:56,320
that corner in particular near that that
intersection, you could reduce in theory

327
00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:00,240
uh 5 to seven dB with a careful set of
plantings. And so there's an idea that

328
00:27:58,159 --> 00:28:04,679
could combine, you know, the the
official buffer plus some plantings to

329
00:28:02,559 --> 00:28:06,699
achieve a goal.
[clears throat]

330
00:28:09,679 --> 00:28:18,720
» May I also say we've been at this for
two years almost. And why two years

331
00:28:16,159 --> 00:28:24,640
later are we getting these suggestions
at the last minute?

332
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:29,919
» I can't speak to his timing. I received
it today. Okay. But um we have always

333
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:33,520
contended that we would wait till the
project was done in the destruction as

334
00:28:31,919 --> 00:28:37,279
well as we were doing some other work on
the exterior of the tennis building last

335
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:41,919
year, repairs to the roof and so on. So
that's why we didn't do them last year.

336
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:46,799
Those are now substantially complete and
the plan is to do them at the end of

337
00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:51,200
this September. The treatment,
>> but I guess the problem we have is we

338
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:56,080
really don't know specifically. All we
can really have is a commit from you to

339
00:28:53,840 --> 00:29:00,159
provide additional landscaping at this
point with but it would be undefined.

340
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:04,720
I
>> think Mr. Porter has his hand up.

341
00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:06,559
» Great. Thank you. Uh can you guys hear
me? Okay.

342
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,760
» Yes.
>> Great. Well, first of all to the members

343
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:13,360
of the BZA, thank you for for your
service, right? Uh I know you're acting

344
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:17,840
in the best interest of our community.
So so thank you for that. Um my wife

345
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:23,600
Chrissy spoke. I just want to say one
quick thing. You know, it's um padell.

346
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:28,799
It's wildly wildly popular in our
community, right? Wildly popular. And

347
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:33,919
it's a gentle sport. It's underhand.
People of all ages can play. My my my

348
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:39,360
daughter who's 8 years old plays. Her
grandparents play. It's a very gentle

349
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:43,120
sport and it's been around since 1969.
So, I agree with Chandra. It's not going

350
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:47,200
anywhere, right? I know for a fact that
it's attracting new families to our to

351
00:29:44,799 --> 00:29:51,200
our community. So, I would just urge um
and and and respectfully request the

352
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:54,320
board to take all this into
consideration, right? And again, I want

353
00:29:52,960 --> 00:30:00,520
to thank you guys for your service and
and um anyway, we're here to to help out

354
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,520
in any way we can.

355
00:30:05,919 --> 00:30:15,200
» Any other comments from the public?
I just I'm hearing that there's uh been

356
00:30:12,159 --> 00:30:20,240
communications by the club members or
someone from the club about trees to

357
00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:24,080
board members. Um those communications
have never been um [clears throat]

358
00:30:22,399 --> 00:30:27,200
revealed, never been, as of my
knowledge, made part of the official

359
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:31,520
record.
>> They they they have not been they're

360
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:35,360
only they're only letters that have come
in. Okay. But they will be part of

361
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,919
» they'll be part of the of the official
record

362
00:30:35,679 --> 00:30:41,840
» and they just came in and so obviously
they'll be part of the record and you

363
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,679
would have access to them. They're just
we just got

364
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:48,720
» made that what what I'm trying to find
out is that you know you've heard many

365
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,799
things and what I heard from the
chairman kind of concerns me about well

366
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:56,480
we'll build it and then let them build
it and see what the impacts are. I don't

367
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,000
think the chairman actually said we'll
let them build it and then

368
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:04,240
» there was a discussion about by the
chairman about only if it's built will

369
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:09,039
we know the impact in words of that
substance. So I'm saying that's the

370
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:14,480
» well that that's the the match.
>> It's the antithesis of to me proper land

371
00:31:11,919 --> 00:31:18,559
use. You know you get all the facts of
you know even things like the trees not

372
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,000
just the trees and bushes but what's
going to be the maintenance plan? I mean

373
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:24,960
that's one of the critical things. How
are they going to maintain it? What if

374
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:28,799
it's planted and dies within a couple
years? Alls I'm saying is that with all

375
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:34,480
this new information, there's no reason
to to rush into it and see.

376
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:37,919
» We've been at this for two years.
>> Okay. We've been at this for two years.

377
00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:40,399
We're going to move We're going to move
forward. We're going to move forward.

378
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,240
We're going to move forward. We've been
at this for two years. We're going to

379
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,559
move forward.
>> You may have, but I think it's unfair. I

380
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:49,760
think it's improper. I think it's
illegal.

381
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:52,320
» And what if it doesn't do the mitigation
that it's supposed to?

382
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,880
» We can't have this back and forth. All
right. You had your opportunity to

383
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:59,960
speak. All right.
>> Well, this is new to us, too. So

384
00:32:04,159 --> 00:32:12,720
» I respect what everybody has said here
tonight

385
00:32:08,159 --> 00:32:19,679
and they're obviously two opposing camps
but the solution

386
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:25,840
I mean the problem is not that people
want to destroy Padell in this

387
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:31,519
community. That is not the problem.
Everybody supports Padell in this

388
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:36,559
community. Everybody wants a Padell
court, but it the problem is where it's

389
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:41,200
placed.
And it's placed in a neighborhood where

390
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:47,919
there are at least six immediate
neighbors who have hired lawyers who've

391
00:32:44,399 --> 00:32:52,799
come before this board again and again
to object to the noise. It's not just

392
00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:56,480
the Marshalss. It's the Chungs across
the street. They hired a lawyer. This

393
00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:04,559
was a year ago. This has been going on
for a long time. The problem is either

394
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:09,200
it gets mitigated or you move it. And
the club has plenty of places they can

395
00:33:07,039 --> 00:33:14,159
put it. They could put it down near the
golf club and people could play pedal

396
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:19,279
before breakfast and then go in the club
and have breakfast. They could play

397
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:24,720
Fidel in the morning and go in and have
lunch. They could have drinks. They

398
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:30,000
could do whatever they want. years ago,
the club put a paddle court over here

399
00:33:27,679 --> 00:33:35,279
with these other tennis courts. There
was strong objection from the neighbors.

400
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:39,840
Objection to the point where a lawsuit
was threatened. The club moved the

401
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:44,159
paddle courts down to where the golf
course is now and where the paddle

402
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:49,440
courts are now. That's a perfectly
appropriate place to put it. It would be

403
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:53,960
out of the jurisdiction of this board
and you could do whatever you wanted.

404
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:11,538
Karen, do you want to say something or
you're just joining the meeting?

405
00:34:09,518 --> 00:34:11,538
[laughter]

406
00:34:12,399 --> 00:34:20,159
» Uh, I'd like to make a motion to close
the public hearing. So move

407
00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:27,280
in favor. I
>> All right. board discussion.

408
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:32,960
Um, so I
was very curious about the sound study

409
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:39,760
that showed in effect um, no difference
in noise level between tennis and pedel

410
00:34:37,359 --> 00:34:45,200
uh, which seemed very at odds with what
um, some of folks have said. Uh between

411
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:52,399
the last BZA and this one, I've been
over 15 times uh standing at uh where

412
00:34:48,720 --> 00:34:57,839
Antio West Lake Stable and West Lake
Road basically right below the Marchons.

413
00:34:54,879 --> 00:35:01,040
Uh and tried to listen for myself to see
what I could hear. Uh on on eight of

414
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,480
those occasions, no one was playing
Pedell, so it was a very uh so I could

415
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:08,400
hear people playing tennis, but I
couldn't hear anyone playing Pedell when

416
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:12,800
I when people were playing both pedal
and tennis. And this would be on courts

417
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:16,240
one, two, or three. Uh uh again, it's
not scientific, but I you could tell the

418
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:21,440
difference between the two shots, but
there seemed to be no difference in

419
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:26,000
terms of actual decibb. Uh cars were
much louder, airplanes were much louder,

420
00:35:23,839 --> 00:35:28,960
wind was louder. When I was there, when
the music was coming from the pool, the

421
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:38,720
music from the coming from the pool was
much louder. Um, and uh, to me it it

422
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:43,200
uh, it made it that the switch to Patel
seemed to be much less impactful from a

423
00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:48,720
noise perspective than what some folks
have claimed. Now, uh, if you had very

424
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:52,720
aggressive tennis players playing, the
sound is louder. Uh, if you have

425
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:58,640
aggressive padell players, the sound is
louder, but I did not see an meaningful

426
00:35:55,599 --> 00:36:05,359
difference. Um I also wanted to
understand um based on comments around

427
00:36:01,359 --> 00:36:11,280
dust to dawn um what the actual usage of
uh I think u one or both courts were

428
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:16,040
used in the month of June uh slightly
less than average than 3 hours a day.

429
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:22,160
» Are you saying that they were both in
use

430
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:27,320
» one or both? In other words, a sound
would have been coming from them. Okay.

431
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:27,320
Uh,

432
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:34,275
all right. Well, first off, number one,
>> I would like to say something about the

433
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:39,520
noise.
[clears throat] This is from Bath,

434
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:45,119
England. Uh, the Padella courts were
dropped from Bath Sports Ground Plan

435
00:36:42,079 --> 00:36:51,200
after Chinese water torture warning.
There is still nowhere to play the sport

436
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:55,839
in Bath. Um, the BA and Northeast
Somerset Council turned down its own

437
00:36:53,680 --> 00:37:00,880
planning committee over concern about
the noise of the four planned pedel

438
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:05,119
courts, which one counselor said would
be like Chinese water torture for

439
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:10,480
neighbors.
And they also said uh the planning

440
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:15,599
committee said the gunfire like noise of
the game would harm neighbors mental

441
00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:19,520
health and turn the plan down. One
counselor warned that the noise would be

442
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:25,440
close to meeting the World Health
Organization definition

443
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:28,400
of seriously annoying.
That's sort of British. Seriously

444
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:32,000
annoying.
>> Well, first off, I'd like to say that um

445
00:37:30,720 --> 00:37:37,599
I'm glad we're not talking about the
lights anymore. All right. Um, and we're

446
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:43,920
talking about a zoning issue and we're
talking about character of the court

447
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:47,359
itself and the noise that the and the
noise and that goes to the character

448
00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:51,520
court and we're also talking about the
fences which obviously it seems no one

449
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:59,760
really has a big concern about the
fences themselves. Uh I as uh Campbell I

450
00:37:57,040 --> 00:38:05,440
I've observed
multiple times I put myself in the

451
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:11,839
position up on the where where that dirt
road comes in by the marons and when

452
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:17,599
tennis is being played at the court
which is a closer proximity to the

453
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:22,560
marons and pedell is being played the
tennis is noisier than the pedell. All

454
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:29,920
right. And and I've witnessed this three
times. Um, another thing is is that if

455
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:34,160
you go you go online, you put in how far
should a pedel court be from a

456
00:38:32,079 --> 00:38:41,200
residential property. Kind of the
criteria is 100 meters. Okay. If you go

457
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:48,079
online, it's 100 meters and the uh
Marons property is 157 m away.

458
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:52,560
» Where's that information from? Um well
they you go online and there it was I

459
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:57,440
» it's from the Podell magazine
>> podell magazine but go on go online go

460
00:38:54,880 --> 00:39:03,599
open open my thing open my thing and put
in put in that there it's it's from the

461
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:07,599
United from the Dutch from UK and it's
the 100 meters is is the goal

462
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:12,560
» I'd like to rely more on professionals
who do this for a living that have done

463
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:17,280
research and made models
>> and are advising people with science

464
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:22,079
than all of this conjecture But the one
sound study we have which

465
00:39:19,599 --> 00:39:26,480
» did have a monitoring location that was
below the marsh but not that far away

466
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,800
» had
>> had had uh uh that there was no

467
00:39:29,359 --> 00:39:35,839
difference between tennis and the
>> well decel sound

468
00:39:33,119 --> 00:39:44,720
» says that that
interpretation of the data was flawed

469
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:50,000
and constrained to put a different
inclusion together that was in favor.

470
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:55,520
That's what if you read this, you could
easily make that determination.

471
00:39:53,440 --> 00:40:00,400
And I would have liked for the two
aciticians. Well, initially

472
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:04,480
I thought it was my understanding and
maybe I'm wrong and I'm glad you're here

473
00:40:01,839 --> 00:40:09,440
so we can read what was said before, but
I thought we decided when you were going

474
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,599
to go for a vote, Jake, and then you
said, "No, it sounds like everyone is

475
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:18,800
very concerned with the sound. Let's do
a study." Did we not say the the club

476
00:40:17,119 --> 00:40:25,040
offered right then and there to do the
study and I think you Elise was like no

477
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:31,440
I think we should perform the study. We
all agreed that we as the independent

478
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:37,839
body here would be performing the study.
I asked if we could be involved in what

479
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:41,839
kind of criter criteria is set to make a
study. All of that was completely

480
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:47,200
ignored. The next thing we see is a
study that was made by the club. Tell me

481
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:51,680
if I'm wrong, but that's how I saw that
meeting go down and the subsequent

482
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:57,200
action. So, you know, I'm glad the
Marons or, you know, their lawyer,

483
00:40:54,480 --> 00:41:02,480
whoever advised them to get another and
then now this isn't even being talked

484
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:06,960
about. It's as if there's no other sound
study. It's a critique of a sound study.

485
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:11,680
But that is that is useful information
here

486
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:17,520
» that the sound study made by the club
it looks flawed to another expert in the

487
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:22,240
field. What what am I supposed to think
about that if I've got to make a

488
00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:29,440
determination cuz I was gung-ho about a
sound study saying you can mitigate the

489
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:36,400
sound by doing X Y and Z. I was happy to
vote and let everybody be happy about

490
00:41:31,599 --> 00:41:40,240
it. That's my goal here still.
But I'm again, you don't have a comment.

491
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:45,403
There's no comment you're going to give
me that's going to satisfy me enough

492
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,480
» to feel like this was done
[laughter]

493
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:55,440
completely.
Gosh, I I'm I'm grateful that I didn't

494
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:59,119
hear that. I guess I'll read that later.
Um,

495
00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:03,280
» another thing I want to say, having been
on the board of trustees and the BAR and

496
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:10,560
the planning board and spent 20 years
here trying to do my civic duty,

497
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:16,560
I know that the club, despite being an
entity of many people,

498
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:23,200
is an entity of one with regards to how
they are treated on boards.

499
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:29,040
So is a single family residence. It's an
entity of one and it's great that there

500
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:35,280
are supporters of this coming here and
expressing their opinion. It's it's

501
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:39,599
great to hear it. Um
but

502
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:46,480
coming in masses doesn't change the fact
that you are an entity of one

503
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:51,200
and I'm not a member of the club. I've
enjoyed the fact that the club is here

504
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:57,839
and may or may not add vibrancy to the
community. I think nature and peace and

505
00:42:54,480 --> 00:43:03,200
quiet adds a value and a vibrancy to the
community.

506
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:06,960
But when members stand up and say
that we're all happy, you're ignoring

507
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,560
people that live here that aren't
members of the club. And that's some

508
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:14,720
kind of discrimination. I don't know if
it's civil rights or not, but it's some

509
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:19,920
kind of consideration. I'm not finished,
but I'll remember you raised your hand.

510
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:24,880
Um,
so I'm trying very hard to make the

511
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:29,200
right kind of decision that makes
everybody happy. And I'm not there yet

512
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:35,119
because we don't have all the facts yet.
That's my opinion. And I think if we

513
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:40,079
make and force a vote right now that it
it just doesn't feel like we've turned

514
00:43:37,599 --> 00:43:46,000
over every stone to do right by not just
the Marchons, but any neighbor that has

515
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:49,760
a valid complaint. And I believe they do
because it's not been proven that they

516
00:43:47,599 --> 00:43:54,800
don't. And I'm not going to gaslight any
resident of Tuxedo Park to say I've

517
00:43:53,200 --> 00:44:00,359
stood there and heard it and I don't
think it's noisy. That I don't think

518
00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:00,359
that's fair.

519
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:08,400
And may I point out that there are five
immediate neighbors who have complained.

520
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:15,920
In case you've probably heard of these
people, the Hennessies, the Chungs, who

521
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:22,400
came here uh to meetings, the Holams,
Pat Goi, and Guthme, and Chris Hansen

522
00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:28,720
even complained about the noise of the
parties at the padel.

523
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:33,760
Now, these are
direct neighbors complaining.

524
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:38,560
» Those complaints were when the lights
were going in. Not. They all complained

525
00:44:36,240 --> 00:44:44,480
about they all talked about the noise.
Jay, I'm sorry. They did. I have these

526
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:48,560
letters from them.
>> And yes, they made reference to the

527
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:53,920
fence height. And please someone here
tell me if this is not a correct

528
00:44:51,440 --> 00:45:00,800
assumption to make but the variance if
we're only talking about the fence which

529
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:05,760
is a stretch because it is a wall but
the height of it without a variance on

530
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:12,960
the height the pedel court can't exist
and you can't play

531
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:18,880
like so that doesn't that bring into
play the idea that it's undesirable

532
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:22,400
because of the noise, the nuisance of
noise.

533
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:26,960
» Well, is that what we're talking about?
>> Yes. So, your comment about everyone's

534
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:31,160
talking about noise but not talking
about the fence. I they're intertwined.

535
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:37,599
» Well, the two go I mean the variances on
the fence,

536
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:44,760
» but you can't make a decision about the
>> because the character of the court goes

537
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:44,760
to to noise, right? Okay,

538
00:45:45,839 --> 00:45:48,400
Mark.

539
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:58,640
Well, for starters, uh, and I read all
the submissions from both parties, uh,

540
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:05,920
and I've lived in the park for 5 years
now, I do not find that the tuxedo club

541
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:11,440
is a nonconforming use. Uh, and even if
it was considered a pre-existing

542
00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:17,119
non-conforming use, I don't believe the
replacement of the lawn tennis with

543
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:21,760
Pedell is a material change in the use.
They're both racket sports. Pedell

544
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:26,079
courts were not placed in a different
location on the lot.

545
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:32,640
Uh,
I've had the opportunity on numerous

546
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:40,079
occasions to walk my dogs uh uh by the
Pedell Courts.

547
00:46:34,720 --> 00:46:45,920
uh and I did not find uh any difference
uh between the any any noise from uh you

548
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:55,119
know hitting tennis balls versus the
pedel. Um no competing noise study was

549
00:46:50,640 --> 00:47:01,280
uh submitted uh other than uh you know
uh to counter the clubs study. I did

550
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:05,920
listen to the video. It was placed on
such a high volume that the bird

551
00:47:03,359 --> 00:47:12,720
chirping was hurting my eyes when
hurting my ears when we were listening

552
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:19,040
to it in the room. Uh uh so uh uh I
couldn't give much weight to that uh

553
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:25,520
based on the volume uh that was uh
played uh before the board. Uh we're

554
00:47:22,240 --> 00:47:29,839
really here um the BCA has the authority
to consider the height variance. uh and

555
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:35,280
I don't think it's substantial and I
haven't heard anything really uh uh an

556
00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:42,480
objection. I think it's it's it's a
standard variance and and I don't uh

557
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:48,240
believe any material changes made. Um, I
did have the opportunity to research

558
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:55,440
uh the different
um case law that was cited. Uh, and I I

559
00:47:52,000 --> 00:48:01,359
don't believe um
um that they're pertinent to this

560
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:05,520
situation. Um nonconforming us is the
cases that were cited. uh they're

561
00:48:03,599 --> 00:48:09,920
seeking if it's non-conforming and you
make a change to it, they're seeking to

562
00:48:07,359 --> 00:48:13,359
get rid of the use and put them back uh
to the original approved use. And I

563
00:48:11,839 --> 00:48:18,400
don't think anyone is going to be
sitting here tonight stating that

564
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:22,559
because there is I don't find that there
is a material change. But even if there

565
00:48:20,319 --> 00:48:26,079
was a finding of material change, I
don't think that anyone is going to say

566
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:31,119
that the tennis pavilion or the tennis
courts or pedel court should be turned

567
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:35,680
into a residential home. So, um, you
know, if you read the cases that were

568
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:41,520
cited, uh, that was the goal, uh, in
mind and challenging the non-conforming

569
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:46,400
uses. So, I think I I made it pretty
clear,

570
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:53,000
um, you know, my evaluation of the
application

571
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:53,000
uh, before BCA tonight.

572
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,920
» Yeah, there's another person in the
audience, Jake, if you want to.

573
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,200
» The meeting has been closed. Public
hearing has been closed.

574
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:04,720
» Public hearing has been closed.
>> No, you can't speak.

575
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,359
» You can speak, but it will not be
considered part of the record. It's

576
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:11,920
completely up to the chief.
>> No, at this point. Okay.

577
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:16,240
» No, at least they're moving on. Um, you
know, and as I look at it, you know, I

578
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:21,599
know that that Charlotte disagrees, but
you know, the acousta block is a

579
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:26,319
material that will cut decibb down. All
right. Being placed where it's placed.

580
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:34,480
Now, I don't want to get into like let's
put it up. Let's then do a sound study

581
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:38,240
afterwards. Um, you know, I I I I
would like to move forward with this.

582
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:40,960
All right. And I think the I think the
board is is ready to vote.

583
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,240
» You would like to what?
>> Move forward. And I think the board is

584
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,480
ready to vote.
>> So, not ready to vote, but you are the

585
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,079
chairman.
>> Chairman, you need to go through the

586
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:54,319
five factors. Okay. I know a lot of it
has already been discussed, but perhaps

587
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,680
for the record, you could
>> Well, that's what we're going to do

588
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,680
here.

589
00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:07,200
» By the way, um
>> I think you Yeah.

590
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:13,119
» I mean, you know, there have been um
statements that the club was not

591
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:17,520
pre-existing nonconforming because it
wasn't deemed pre-existing

592
00:50:15,119 --> 00:50:26,240
non-conforming. That's not an accurate
statement. This probably existed before

593
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:29,240
zoning and there's specific uh code um
100-24

594
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:39,280
that basically says it's grandfathered,
right? Um

595
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:46,000
» the the only way it would not be
grandfathered is if the courts were put

596
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:53,200
somewhere else. And I think I haven't
heard anybody say the courts that the

597
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:58,640
Padel courts were put somewhere else
other than where the tennis court was.

598
00:50:56,240 --> 00:51:04,559
Um I think the board needs to also
because there have been comments uh that

599
00:51:01,839 --> 00:51:10,880
uh Padell is a change of use. I think
the court needs to decide whether they

600
00:51:07,839 --> 00:51:14,400
believe that Padell is a change of use
from tennis. You might want to discuss

601
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:20,240
that.
um as well uh when you're going through

602
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:24,720
this the five factors. Okay.
>> Well, should we move on those

603
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:31,520
beforehand?
>> Um I think that's not a bad idea. So,

604
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:36,720
just to limit the the initial uh
questions, we don't have to talk about

605
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:42,800
pre-existing non-conforming because it's
it's as a matter of law. Uh but there

606
00:51:40,079 --> 00:51:48,480
have been allegations that this is a new
use and not a grandfathered use. Uh and

607
00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:52,319
I think the board might want to discuss
that and vote on that because that's a

608
00:51:50,319 --> 00:51:57,200
threshold issue
in terms of expansion of a

609
00:51:54,240 --> 00:52:00,200
non-conforming use.
>> Um

610
00:52:01,839 --> 00:52:06,480
I'd like to how you want to move
forward. How is it best to move forward

611
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:11,680
with that as a
>> I would discuss that as right now as an

612
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:18,319
interpretation of the code.
>> I mean clearly a racket sport it you

613
00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:23,760
know we have squash, we have tennis, we
have rackets. All right. Um

614
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:31,280
to me it's a it's another racket sport.
So there's not to me there's there's

615
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:36,400
certainly not um a change in use.
>> I I would agree. It's uh in my opinion

616
00:52:34,720 --> 00:52:40,720
the replacement of lawn tennis with a
pedal is not a material change in use.

617
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:45,040
Both are racket sports and based on the
fact that pidel courts were not placed

618
00:52:42,319 --> 00:52:50,960
in a different location uh I don't think
it should

619
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:53,280
um be an issue.
>> Okay.

620
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:58,480
» I agree.
>> I agree.

621
00:52:55,680 --> 00:53:02,640
» Okay. So why don't we take a quick vote
on that? Something we can kind of all

622
00:53:00,079 --> 00:53:08,720
agree on. might be a good start. So,
you'll call for a motion that it's not

623
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:13,119
» uh call for a motion that the FedEl is
not a change of abuse. All

624
00:53:11,119 --> 00:53:15,040
» in favor move. I
>> I

625
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:17,760
» did. Someone second.
>> Second.

626
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:23,359
» Okay.
>> All right. Great. Now you [laughter] Now

627
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:27,119
you can get into the lowhanging fruit.
>> Exactly.

628
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:30,800
» Now, we should get into the actual
variance itself.

629
00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:36,160
» Okay. uh whether an undesirable change
will be reduced in the character of the

630
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:44,640
neighborhood or
a detriment to nearby properties will be

631
00:53:39,359 --> 00:53:51,640
created by granting of an area variance.
Now we obviously have a lot of different

632
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:51,640
opinions about this. Um

633
00:53:52,960 --> 00:54:04,559
the uh the noise is a character, but you
know like I as I said before you know

634
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:14,559
the the the distance from the bedel
court to the to the marons is 157 m. Uh

635
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:20,480
there are there there are no other homes
that are less than 100 mters. Even the

636
00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:27,359
Teddy Wings is is less than slightly
less than 100 meters. Um [clears throat]

637
00:54:24,319 --> 00:54:34,640
Delortch are in the same area. Uh the
lights were withdrawn. Um

638
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:41,480
uh the the the height variance on the
fence is not really a significant issue.

639
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:41,480
Um

640
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:55,920
and it and personally observation of the
sound um by myself personally and I know

641
00:54:53,520 --> 00:55:03,599
Mark has that same feeling and and so
does Campbell. Uh now I'm sure there uh

642
00:55:00,319 --> 00:55:08,640
others that want to chime in on this.
Just the other part of the noise that I

643
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:11,680
was, you know, do the courts cause there
to be more noise other than just the

644
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:16,720
hitting of the racket, right? Is there
more crowd noise? And I think um again,

645
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:20,640
based on my observations, that was not
the case. I think the first month the

646
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:25,520
courts were put up, there was a lot of
buzz and there was a lot more

647
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:32,480
spectating. I think over the past year
uh there uh I believe there's been no

648
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:37,559
more spectator noise or player noise
from Pedell than there is from Long

649
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,559
Tennis.

650
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:52,559
Is that character? Who else has
something to say about detriment to the

651
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:59,520
neighborhood?
Um well we've not established to my

652
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:05,040
satisfaction that there is not a noise
issue and so made that clear.

653
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:11,200
Um
there may also be um an issue with

654
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:16,160
regards to a surface. Is the surface of
Pedel different than the tennis court

655
00:56:12,799 --> 00:56:21,280
that was there before? The wall is
certainly different than the fence that

656
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:30,559
was there before. I've also already
stated that the height of it is tied to

657
00:56:25,359 --> 00:56:34,799
the function of the game. Um, so therein
lies the my objection to the height

658
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:40,880
because we've not gotten to the bottom
of whether this will be acceptable

659
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:45,839
for a sound in the neighborhood. Now,
the the distances that you're talking

660
00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:51,599
about, I I wish an someone that was more
expert or that you could cite more

661
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:58,160
expertise behind those um distances, but
distance if you knew enough about

662
00:56:54,559 --> 00:57:02,160
acoustical science that has is a factor
but not the only one.

663
00:57:00,640 --> 00:57:06,480
Um
so it is a detriment to the

664
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:12,480
neighborhood. So the one entity, the
club, is creating a detriment to six

665
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:15,640
entities that are nearby that object to
the noise.

666
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:26,480
Yes, I agree with that. As I I told you
the names of the people who complained,

667
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:31,280
direct neighbors and some very important
people in the olden days like the

668
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:39,040
Hennessies and the Chungs who came
twice, the whole slams, Pat Gabby and

669
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:43,200
Guth and Chris Hansen. He complained
about the noise of the party. I think

670
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:48,000
mainly parties
at Padel, but that's a lot of people

671
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:51,920
and just because
>> Well, I disagree with you. I think most

672
00:57:49,599 --> 00:57:55,040
of those were not on the basis of noise.
They were on the basis of the lights.

673
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,040
» No, I don't agree with you.
>> Well, then we we have a different

674
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,160
opinion.
>> Oh, okay.

675
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:05,040
» Yeah. I mean, you could go back into the
records and look, but most of them are

676
00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:10,079
on the pages that
>> the noise is also

677
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:14,640
something that is of a concern, I would
think, and this is only my personal

678
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:20,880
opinion on the matter, but if there
really is truly a noise nuisance that

679
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:27,520
neighbors feel that have lived here
before Pedell was put in, so those who

680
00:58:24,319 --> 00:58:31,280
said that, you know, you you have to
accept that you're going does hear noise

681
00:58:29,119 --> 00:58:37,680
from a tennis court
and it's established in lots of

682
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:42,559
conjectural online information but also
an acquisition is saying so that it's

683
00:58:40,160 --> 00:58:48,160
different the Marons and these other
complaintants had no idea that their

684
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:51,760
government would let Padell be built so
close to their house and create

685
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:57,000
potentially
material damage to the value of their

686
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:57,000
thousands.

687
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:04,880
» The the only noise study that was
submitted in the application was

688
00:59:02,400 --> 00:59:09,920
submitted by the club. Uh I do live
diagonally across the street from the

689
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:15,920
club. Uh, and I did make personal
observations and yes, I I hear the pool

690
00:59:13,839 --> 00:59:20,559
and and actually Sunday night when I
come home, uh, I like listening to the,

691
00:59:18,079 --> 00:59:24,480
uh, band uh, or the guitarist uh,
playing, but I I purchased a house

692
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:29,680
across the street diagonally from the
club uh, and and the pool and the and

693
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:34,240
the tennis courts. But the only uh,
study that was submitted uh, in this

694
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:40,799
application uh, was submitted by the
club. I do think it's very disrespectful

695
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:47,680
to not read it and understand what the
Marons have presented because they paid

696
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:53,680
for an assessment of the study. The data
is not necessarily wrong. It's lacking,

697
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:58,319
but there's no reason to throw out data
that the the acquistician that the club

698
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,520
hired perfectly respectable outfit. I
know them. I know Trinity. I know

699
00:59:59,839 --> 01:00:08,280
Sarammy.
um it's just not sufficient to get to

700
01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:08,280
the root of the problem.

701
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:18,240
» All right, moving on. Whether the
benefits sought by the applicant could

702
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:22,720
be achieved by some other feasible was
other feasible fragment for the purpose

703
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:26,799
other than the area variance. I mean
only if they had put the court someplace

704
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:29,520
else. Okay, that would be
>> well they have the luxury of that

705
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:33,200
option.
Well, that would be after the fact after

706
01:00:31,200 --> 01:00:39,440
it was already built. So,
>> we don't know that that matters, does

707
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:42,799
it? How does how much does that matter?
>> And it was sort of built in the dark of

708
01:00:41,839 --> 01:00:46,400
the night.
>> Not really. [laughter] That That's That

709
01:00:45,599 --> 01:00:49,839
is That is
>> in the middle of the winter with no

710
01:00:49,359 --> 01:00:54,000
» Come on.
>> With no neighbor,

711
01:00:51,599 --> 01:00:59,359
» no neighbors were
>> told about this, were they? No,

712
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:06,240
» there was no
No notice of neighbors.

713
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:10,960
» I mean, no permit, no nothing.
>> That all happened before this came to

714
01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:17,839
us. Okay. All right. What went on
beforehand really? You know, yet it was

715
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:21,040
it was but it it it didn't come to us
until it was already built.

716
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:24,000
» Oh, that's true.
>> Okay. Didn't come to us until it was

717
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:30,079
already built.
But is that a is that an appropriate

718
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:33,839
statement to make that we can't move it
because it's already here?

719
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,280
» No, of course not.
>> No, it's not.

720
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:40,160
» Could not grant the height variance,
>> right? We could not you have that

721
01:01:39,599 --> 01:01:43,680
authority.
>> We could not grant varian

722
01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:47,839
closer to
>> right

723
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:53,280
» at least being illustrative to the
problem here. uh whether the requested

724
01:01:50,640 --> 01:02:00,240
area variance are substantial. The
perimeter fence is 6 ft. The old tennis

725
01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:07,680
fence was 10 ft. The stealth fence at
the high points is 13 ft. So there was a

726
01:02:03,839 --> 01:02:13,520
7 foot variance. [snorts] Um but the
there really is only a 30% variance from

727
01:02:10,559 --> 01:02:19,760
what the height of the old
uh fences were. So I don't you know yes

728
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:24,480
it's substantial but I don't think it's
overly substantial where we could not

729
01:02:23,119 --> 01:02:27,920
grant it.
>> Also the area of the fence around the

730
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:31,760
pedel is smaller than the area of the
fence around a tennis court.

731
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:36,240
» Right. And just for the just for the
record when they mentioned uh the

732
01:02:34,079 --> 01:02:40,079
location whether the location of the
court could be placed in a different

733
01:02:37,839 --> 01:02:46,960
location just for the record I would say
uh it obviously makes sense to have the

734
01:02:43,359 --> 01:02:50,880
pedel court with the tennis and uh in
the vicinity of the tennis pavilion

735
01:02:48,559 --> 01:02:57,359
especially since it's placed in the
exact location of a pre-existing court.

736
01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:07,599
Uh and as far as the height of the
fence, uh as was just stated, it's it's

737
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:11,359
it's uh it's a uh minuscule uh you know,
lesser uh you know, there's there's a

738
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:15,359
you know, that's what variances are for.
And I don't think the variance is is

739
01:03:13,119 --> 01:03:18,839
very substantial that is being requested
on this application.

740
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:27,680
whether the proposed variance will have
an adverse effect or impact on the

741
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:33,440
physical and or environmental conditions
in the neighborhood or district. Um,

742
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:39,119
» excuse me. Yes. the the you know the
combined area of the paddle courts is

743
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:44,480
smaller than the tennis court and it you
know is it's less on a physical um and

744
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:48,480
obviously
uh there you know have been noise

745
01:03:46,799 --> 01:03:51,480
concerns
um

746
01:03:51,520 --> 01:04:01,599
excuse me yeah Stephanie Ren mentioned
the bird kills

747
01:03:57,039 --> 01:04:06,720
the she worries a lot about birds and So
I think that's un an adverse

748
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:11,680
environmental effect. And the second one
is uh that whatever the surface and I

749
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:17,920
don't know what it is of the pedell
court

750
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:24,960
has water running off it much more than
a lawn tennis court and apparently it's

751
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:29,520
going into pond three and then the weewa
and it's because of the composition of

752
01:04:26,799 --> 01:04:31,599
the court floor.
>> Is there evidence of that? Thought I

753
01:04:30,799 --> 01:04:35,280
would just ask.
>> I' I've not heard any evidence of that.

754
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:41,359
» Evidence of that.
>> We was one one of these wonderful pieces

755
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:47,119
of paper we got.
>> No one remembers reading that. It's in

756
01:04:44,319 --> 01:04:53,960
here.
>> Yeah. It was mentioned. I don't know if

757
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,960
it was by Susman

758
01:04:54,640 --> 01:05:02,599
about the excess water. I don't doubt if
it would by suspect

759
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:08,000
because
>> supplied that information based upon

760
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,839
experts and we
>> well guess that

761
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:15,839
» how thorough is
>> I mean I've never I've never I've never

762
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:19,920
seen
>> it's a height variance and whether

763
01:05:17,839 --> 01:05:23,119
» you know no matter how you
>> but he's going on beyond the height

764
01:05:21,839 --> 01:05:29,039
variance
>> well the board is rightly considering

765
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:32,400
noise impact As far as character
>> using sorry

766
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:36,319
» as far as character of the neighborhood
that's perfectly within your purview to

767
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:43,280
do that and you should do that and you
did do that right.

768
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:47,520
The allegations that there's going to be
storm water runoff and it's going to be

769
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:53,760
greater. That has nothing to do with the
the fence height and that is something I

770
01:05:51,359 --> 01:05:57,440
this goes to the bar right to the bar. I
think that goes to the bar and and and

771
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:04,880
you know the bar can deal with that
issue as they should. Um and it's also a

772
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:10,880
type two action under seekers. So that's
uh by its very nature considered at for

773
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:16,559
this board a height variance is a type
two action. So that under seeker is

774
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:20,359
considered not to have a significant
impact on the environment.

775
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:29,920
And then
last is is whether the alleged

776
01:06:27,440 --> 01:06:33,680
difficulty is self-created which
consideration shall be revalent to the

777
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:39,280
decision of the board of appeals but
should not necessarily

778
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:45,599
uh preclude the granting of the area of
every every one basically is

779
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:45,599
self-created. All right.

780
01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:54,359
Um, I would like like to make a motion
to

781
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:01,359
» the final factor here. I just did I
don't mean to interrupt, Mr. chairman,

782
01:06:59,839 --> 01:07:07,039
but
>> it's clearly self-created

783
01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:12,720
» and without
consideration even and and how this has

784
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:17,359
been presented in this past year I've
been on this board um without a lot of

785
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:20,359
respect to the neighbors and I find that
shameful.

786
01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:36,440
I would like to make a motion
to

787
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,440
» Do you wish to

788
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:42,400
Okay.
>> Yeah.

789
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:47,119
» I would like to make a motion to approve
the approve the variance.

790
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:50,319
» Motion to approve as discuss mitigation
because he's

791
01:07:47,839 --> 01:07:56,640
» right. Well, that that is part of it too
and and and with the mitigation

792
01:07:55,200 --> 01:08:05,680
acoustical [snorts]
uh attenuation that is provided in this

793
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:14,240
proposal from acousta block uh which
will be installed on the fence uh

794
01:08:10,559 --> 01:08:20,400
laterally to the pedel court um and will
make this part of law record.

795
01:08:18,799 --> 01:08:24,960
» Have you made that motion?
>> I would like to make that motion.

796
01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:28,480
Second. Second.
>> All approved.

797
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:31,040
» I
What about the trees? While you're at

798
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:35,359
it, the
>> the trees

799
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:40,080
there. There isn't anything substantive
that they're presenting right now with

800
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:46,000
the trees. All we have is we have a
commitment from them to review the trees

801
01:08:43,279 --> 01:08:51,520
and to plant trees in the fall. And will
that will be part of the record that

802
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:56,560
there will be tree planting in the
>> condition and have the trees water

803
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:59,520
» right that's the most amorphous
condition I've ever heard I don't

804
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:03,199
believe it's amorphous at all was made
very clear the number of trees would

805
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:06,080
been very clear the number where they
would be very

806
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:10,000
» recommended by whom
>> this came tonight

807
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:13,679
» without a drawing without any indication
how are you going to make sure that you

808
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:15,600
may just finish please without a drawing
without any indication how it's

809
01:09:15,367 --> 01:09:18,319
» [clears throat]
>> Yeah.

810
01:09:16,480 --> 01:09:21,279
» Speaker. No, you're done. You're done.
Okay. No, you're done.

811
01:09:19,759 --> 01:09:25,040
» I have the right to speak also.
>> No. No.

812
01:09:22,640 --> 01:09:27,839
» Well, Mr. Sesman should not have Nobody
should have spoken.

813
01:09:27,120 --> 01:09:30,480
» Nobody should have spoken.
>> The meeting isn't closed. The public

814
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:33,600
meeting isn't closed. Okay.
>> What kind of

815
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:38,319
» We asked him in the regard on the trees.
That's it was it was a specific question

816
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:42,159
in regard to the approval.
>> So, there's a second condition as to the

817
01:09:40,719 --> 01:09:45,920
trees,
>> right? So,

818
01:09:43,520 --> 01:09:50,960
» well, we we really we don't have a
definitive on the trees. So, we we we

819
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:57,360
just really would put in there that that
tree planting will occur in the fall.

820
01:09:55,199 --> 01:10:01,760
» We we we we could be if we say they
would replace the equivalent number of

821
01:09:59,440 --> 01:10:04,080
trees that were taken down to to
construct [clears throat] the court. We

822
01:10:02,800 --> 01:10:08,239
could we could probably
>> No, it has to be many more.

823
01:10:07,113 --> 01:10:13,360
[laughter]
>> Does not have to be in touch.

824
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:18,560
» Yes. to stop the sound. Isn't the idea
>> that that is up to the board if the

825
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:22,880
board feels that more trees of a certain
caliber should be planted in addition to

826
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:28,560
the ones that were replaced. It's
completely up to the board

827
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:30,719
as long as you just don't go overboard.
You know what I'm saying,

828
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,719
» right?
>> So,

829
01:10:31,120 --> 01:10:37,440
» to me, it would be reasonable to ask the
club to replace the trees that they took

830
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:41,199
down in the construction of the court.
Can that be deferred to the bar who's

831
01:10:39,440 --> 01:10:43,199
very concerned about trees and tree
placement?

832
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:48,800
» Absolutely.
>> Defer it or you could

833
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:53,040
» Yes, you could you could defer it or you
could make sure they replace what they

834
01:10:50,880 --> 01:10:56,800
took down and then the bar has every
right to

835
01:10:54,960 --> 01:11:00,640
set their own conditions,
>> right? But would they be going to the

836
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:03,040
bar?
>> They're going to the bar, right?

837
01:11:01,679 --> 01:11:07,280
» Yeah, they would have to go to the bar.
They would have to go to the bar because

838
01:11:05,360 --> 01:11:10,239
of the physical change to the property
regarding the fence at a minimum.

839
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,400
» Right.
>> Okay.

840
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:16,400
» Excuse me.
>> You you may grant a variance for the

841
01:11:14,239 --> 01:11:20,960
height of the fence. In doing that,
>> the bar would still have the power to

842
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:26,080
review that. If you don't grant a
variance for the fence, then the bar

843
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:30,800
really has nothing to review. So we can
include the acousta block in the

844
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:34,239
proposal and let the bar decide on any
additional landscaping that may be

845
01:11:32,480 --> 01:11:38,320
required. Yes.
>> And what enforcement mechanism should be

846
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:41,280
discussed here?
>> What would be a condition of the

847
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:47,120
approval?
>> Right. If they So are you asking if they

848
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:50,719
don't put the sound attenuation up
>> if they let the trees die again? Well,

849
01:11:49,280 --> 01:11:55,120
if you're not going to if you're not
going to make them plant trees, if you

850
01:11:53,440 --> 01:11:59,520
did, then you would also require
maintenance bond for the trees, right?

851
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:03,280
If you don't and allow that to go to the
bar, then the bar can set the conditions

852
01:12:02,000 --> 01:12:05,760
or the conditions,
>> right? And

853
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:09,520
» I would I would let it go to the bar and
let the bar because then they could give

854
01:12:07,920 --> 01:12:12,960
a drawing to the bar where they're
putting the treats. But excuse me, this

855
01:12:11,520 --> 01:12:21,199
isn't going to help people like the
Chungs who don't live who live directly

856
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:25,440
across from the club, the club itself. I
mean, there are other people who are

857
01:12:23,440 --> 01:12:29,600
complaining about the noise. You don't
seem to understand that.

858
01:12:28,080 --> 01:12:34,000
» Well, that should have been here then.
Uh so so we would just have the

859
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:38,960
condition of the of the fence
>> of the of the of the

860
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:46,800
» I would I would recommend to have uh
evergreen trees uh the number that were

861
01:12:42,719 --> 01:12:54,080
removed be be placed as a border uh to
be um uh the plan of which would be

862
01:12:51,199 --> 01:12:56,159
subject you know to bar approval.
>> Okay.

863
01:12:54,480 --> 01:13:00,800
» All right. So this way at least we're
actually referencing what needs to be

864
01:12:58,560 --> 01:13:05,679
done that we're saying they need to
replace evergreen trees, the number uh

865
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:10,480
along the border that they removed, the
specifics and obviously uh the specifics

866
01:13:08,640 --> 01:13:14,159
as far as maintaining them and whether a
bond would be required for the

867
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,320
maintenance we'd leave up to the bar.
>> I wouldn't just I wouldn't specify

868
01:13:15,600 --> 01:13:18,960
evergreen,
>> right? I would say whatever

869
01:13:17,679 --> 01:13:21,920
» whatever trees were removed.
>> Yeah.

870
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:26,320
» Okay. So
the the tree the second condition would

871
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:30,400
be replace the trees that were removed
with evergreen trees.

872
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:32,880
» I would not specify evergreen.
>> Okay. With

873
01:13:31,040 --> 01:13:37,679
» with comparable trees
>> I mean

874
01:13:34,239 --> 01:13:42,400
» but with an intention of mitigating
>> noise. Yeah.

875
01:13:40,400 --> 01:13:45,280
» Okay. Replace the trees that were
removed.

876
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:51,600
Intend
>> to mitigate.

877
01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:58,719
» Intention is mitigation. found
>> and um

878
01:13:54,480 --> 01:14:03,920
uh at progression of BA
>> or maintaining or

879
01:14:01,440 --> 01:14:07,440
» with a maintenance bond with
>> well that would be the B

880
01:14:06,719 --> 01:14:13,280
I would
>> as as approved by the B approved by

881
01:14:10,159 --> 01:14:17,679
» you couldn't require them to seek
acoustical

882
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:20,239
acousticians advice to do so or is that
their process? That's

883
01:14:19,199 --> 01:14:23,679
» that would be their process.
>> That would be their process. Yeah, they

884
01:14:22,880 --> 01:14:26,080
they would
>> but they so they could if they wanted

885
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:32,040
to.
>> Well, I'm not their attorney, but I

886
01:14:27,679 --> 01:14:32,040
assume that they could. Yep.

887
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:37,840
» Okay. So, we had a motion. We had a
second. We had Did we have a vote?

888
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:41,640
» Yeah, we did.
>> 32.

889
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:41,640
» 32.

890
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:49,920
All right. It'll take me a while. a
little while to to to draft this which I

891
01:14:48,239 --> 01:14:55,640
will then circulate for the board to
review and if I've left anything out

892
01:14:56,159 --> 01:15:04,080
» okay
we vote on the height

893
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:09,840
» yeah granted at a 7 foot variance
correct

894
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:13,719
» well a seven foot variance was granted
if that's what you were voting

895
01:15:14,400 --> 01:15:19,880
» you'd
We did.

896
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,880
» Yeah.

897
01:15:26,480 --> 01:15:30,440
» Okay. Oh, okay.

898
01:15:38,080 --> 01:15:45,120
» I um No, he I was he was here in the
last conversation with Farley.

899
01:15:43,360 --> 01:15:47,120
» No, he has Right. You were here for the
last conversation with the for?

900
01:15:46,719 --> 01:15:48,719
» Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay.

901
01:15:47,679 --> 01:15:51,760
» You don't want me here?
>> No. Okay.

902
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:53,360
» I don't want to step in if I'm I'm the
alter.

903
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:56,000
» I mean, whatever you think.
>> Here the alternate.

904
01:15:54,960 --> 01:15:57,600
» Of course, you can stay as the
alternate.

905
01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:02,080
» Okay.
>> In case I don't know, somebody decides

906
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:05,600
I've had enough and quits before they
>> Okay.

907
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:08,640
» Which may happen.
>> I can't stand.

908
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:11,760
» Are we still on this case or a new case?
>> No, we're on a new case.

909
01:16:10,719 --> 01:16:17,280
» We're on a new case.
>> Okay. I didn't hear it.

910
01:16:14,560 --> 01:16:21,800
Okay. Thank you. Give my reporter a
second. She'll wrap up and get out.

911
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:39,440
» Yes. To the right hand side.
>> We're not necessarily going to hear.

912
01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:44,199
» Well, it's all recorded.
>> I understand. But I just don't mind

913
01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:44,199
taking

914
01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:52,640
You can you can request a copy.
You can request a copy.

915
01:16:49,760 --> 01:17:00,560
» Okay, perfect. I'll do that
>> because the minutes are not

916
01:16:57,679 --> 01:17:05,239
detail.
>> Oh my gosh, I'm dying. Okay.

917
01:17:09,120 --> 01:17:15,280
» Yeah, we we we had opened and closed the
public meeting on part of the

918
01:17:14,800 --> 01:17:18,320
recollection.
>> I don't think we closed the public

919
01:17:16,719 --> 01:17:20,239
hearing because they were submitting new
plans.

920
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:24,960
» Correct.
>> We adjourned

921
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,600
recalculate because we submitting new
plans.

922
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:32,080
» Yeah. The uh the area the variance
regarding the

923
01:17:29,280 --> 01:17:39,000
» right they're probably with new
and they no longer require a vantage

924
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:39,000
proper fashion.

925
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:49,120
Um,
okay. Number two, Farley Richard and

926
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:53,560
Shelley for Bridge Road, Tuxedo Park,
tax map number 106-1-44,

927
01:17:54,239 --> 01:18:02,960
seeking relief from the following
sections of the village tuxedo park

928
01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:11,679
zoning code. Village code 100-8
lot area where lot size is 66 acre. The

929
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:20,400
minimum lot village laws 1 acre village
code 100-8 front yard setback for road

930
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:26,400
where 19 foot setback is proposed and 75
is required. Village code

931
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:33,920
sideyard setback
where 34 is proposed 50 is required.

932
01:18:29,679 --> 01:18:41,360
Village code 108.8 sideyard school
43 is proposed fixing required

933
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:48,320
11 box
25% is maximum permitting and 30%

934
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:52,000
proposed I think I think that this was
part of the right

935
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:57,040
» of what was put in the papers original
and that's based on the original thing

936
01:18:53,840 --> 01:19:00,400
and that a couple of these have changed.
>> Yes. Did you change them again this

937
01:18:59,840 --> 01:19:04,719
week?
>> We changed them and we resubmitted, but

938
01:19:02,560 --> 01:19:09,199
it's for the better
>> as as a result of the um

939
01:19:06,719 --> 01:19:13,920
» the the the last documents you sent us
though, it has not changed since those.

940
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:19,280
» It's changed slightly because while um
was reflexing the plans for the

941
01:19:16,080 --> 01:19:25,280
architectural plans for the VA, the side
porch became reduced in size. So, we're

942
01:19:22,480 --> 01:19:28,960
requiring less of a sideyard variance
and that's the only change from the

943
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:33,760
previous
set of plans. What are you requesting?

944
01:19:32,080 --> 01:19:36,159
» 14 ft 6 in.
>> 14 ft 6 in.

945
01:19:35,120 --> 01:19:40,640
» Correct.
>> So, do you have a new letter or

946
01:19:38,320 --> 01:19:44,640
» I had a new letter um and we submitted
it to John and also as yet

947
01:19:44,239 --> 01:19:48,880
» and I
>> Yeah, the one I have is June 19th.

948
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:53,199
» This is a full new packet. Oh, a full
new packet. Okay. I got three packets. I

949
01:19:51,520 --> 01:19:55,120
know it's just really it's just that
simple change.

950
01:19:54,480 --> 01:20:01,280
» Okay.
>> Um but and here's here's that the latest

951
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:06,320
letter.
>> Okay.

952
01:20:03,199 --> 01:20:14,400
So, and the as a result of refining the
drawings for the barbs, we decided to

953
01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:20,080
make do a few ch adjustments. Um we um
changed the pool to a more narrow pool.

954
01:20:17,199 --> 01:20:26,080
Instead of um 16x32,
it's now at 12x30. We added a circular

955
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:32,480
hot tub here. Um it's pulled in from the
sideyard u a bit, so we require less of

956
01:20:29,679 --> 01:20:38,400
variance. It's only um about three or
four feet over the the sideyard um

957
01:20:35,199 --> 01:20:40,880
setback line. Um we also reduced the
side parking court back here and just

958
01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:42,480
made
>> Yeah. No, actually that made a lot of

959
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:47,120
sense.
>> Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it

960
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:53,679
and and um and
it still serves the the right per

961
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:58,400
what she wants to accomplish. Um we also
did uh we submitted the planting plan in

962
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:04,080
this latest package that we submitted to
the bar. Um it's everything was more

963
01:21:01,360 --> 01:21:12,400
refined in the last few weeks um to get
ready for the bar and uh

964
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:16,960
this plan. This is all
for the

965
01:21:14,800 --> 01:21:23,040
» for the house below. This is all an
existing wooden area. We are just taking

966
01:21:19,760 --> 01:21:29,199
out a few trees for construction. Um
saving most of the um other trees there.

967
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:33,840
This is an extensive um maxi rodendren
um row but and it's all eaten up by the

968
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:37,840
deer. But the fence we're putting in is
a six foot high that invisible fence

969
01:21:36,159 --> 01:21:42,560
that helps keep the deer out. So maybe
that's going to go down lower, but for

970
01:21:40,800 --> 01:21:45,679
screening purposes, it's great because
they don't need screening down below.

971
01:21:44,239 --> 01:21:52,560
They need it up a little higher. And it
does provide a bit of screening. Um,

972
01:21:49,679 --> 01:21:57,600
so the big change in in the side um
porch, we used to have the side porch go

973
01:21:54,719 --> 01:22:02,320
like this, but um Kevin went out and
measured all the windows and found that

974
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:09,199
um instead of high uh covering over a
window, we he shortened the uh the porch

975
01:22:06,480 --> 01:22:11,199
and um it's only 146.
And then we just moved the steps a

976
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:14,320
little.
>> You don't mind? We should have covered

977
01:22:12,639 --> 01:22:18,480
two of the speakers. Um
>> Oh, I'm sorry.

978
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:21,480
» Thank you.
Okay.

979
01:22:22,159 --> 01:22:35,040
» Gotcha.
So, um Oh, both of them worked

980
01:22:29,679 --> 01:22:40,159
and uh we I think that's about it on the
changes, but like I said, we got more

981
01:22:37,360 --> 01:22:44,800
refined um on the on the planting and
and everything and the pool became much

982
01:22:42,960 --> 01:22:49,199
much more elegant. Just out of
curiosity, why are these two trees

983
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:51,760
coming down? I can see this because
there's a fence. Why would these come

984
01:22:50,880 --> 01:22:54,239
down?
>> Um, Shell doesn't like them.

985
01:22:53,840 --> 01:22:57,199
» What?
>> Shell doesn't like them. They're a

986
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:59,840
little scraw very scrawny.
>> They're scrawny.

987
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:03,360
» They're scrawny white pines.
>> Okay.

988
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:07,280
» So, they are really like like Charlie
Brown trees. I would use one for my

989
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:12,080
Christmas tree because I like that kind
of tree. But, um, but she, you know, she

990
01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:18,400
likes it more more perfect. Like these
are all emerald green. um our vetes more

991
01:23:15,760 --> 01:23:22,800
formal landscape using native plants
which I know that barley

992
01:23:20,719 --> 01:23:27,440
» yeah know the only my only you know
somewhat a concern is is that you know

993
01:23:24,639 --> 01:23:30,639
there are trees being cut down from your
the closest neighbor whoever that

994
01:23:29,440 --> 01:23:34,082
closest neighbor is
>> makes you know

995
01:23:31,840 --> 01:23:36,159
» oh then I don't care
[laughter]

996
01:23:34,719 --> 01:23:40,239
» there are still some trees that we
didn't show in here sap a lot of

997
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:44,719
saplings this is more of a wooded area I
know this is more of a wooded area than

998
01:23:42,480 --> 01:23:48,480
uh It's a pretty wooded area. Yeah, it
is pretty quite steep.

999
01:23:46,719 --> 01:23:52,880
» It's very steep. Right. Correct. So,
they basically see this slope. Actually,

1000
01:23:50,719 --> 01:23:55,679
some of it they have their horn on it a
little bit about right here.

1001
01:23:54,719 --> 01:23:58,719
» But, um,
>> what's the bump out on a porticochet in

1002
01:23:58,239 --> 01:24:00,320
the top?
>> Right here.

1003
01:23:59,199 --> 01:24:04,199
» Yeah.
>> So, that

1004
01:24:09,120 --> 01:24:13,080
that's a that's a circular

1005
01:24:13,199 --> 01:24:16,600
the half turret

1006
01:24:17,760 --> 01:24:24,880
half turret that's on the study and that
projects up two stories. This would be

1007
01:24:22,480 --> 01:24:31,199
one story. Um let me show you what that
looks like on the ocean.

1008
01:24:28,320 --> 01:24:37,120
» So from the side view it's it's
basically just a conical um roof to

1009
01:24:35,040 --> 01:24:42,639
complement the conical roof. Oh, so it's
kind of reverse perpendicular to the

1010
01:24:39,440 --> 01:24:46,719
house and this one
chair just to kind of when you're coming

1011
01:24:44,159 --> 01:24:48,080
around the corner here softness and
>> what's that?

1012
01:24:47,120 --> 01:24:53,760
» Are you going to see it?
>> I can see it from my property, but

1013
01:24:50,639 --> 01:24:57,280
» this gives it a lot of interest.
>> We talked about removing it, but it just

1014
01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:00,320
doesn't
>> I agree.

1015
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:05,920
» And then on the on the front of the
house front, if you're

1016
01:25:02,719 --> 01:25:08,800
» Yeah. No, I mean the the front is, you
know, right currently it's a front

1017
01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:12,080
that's kind of that's nothing.
>> Yeah, it's

1018
01:25:09,520 --> 01:25:16,239
» Well, there is there was a porch here
that was ripped off the house. I think a

1019
01:25:14,320 --> 01:25:20,480
lot of, you know, just in in the course
of measuring, there was a lot of windows

1020
01:25:17,920 --> 01:25:24,639
were replaced with, you know, um,
especially the rear here, the kitchen.

1021
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:28,800
» But you walk into that house, the
outside does not match the inside. It's

1022
01:25:26,639 --> 01:25:35,480
gorgeous.
at the end. This this helps make the

1023
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:35,480
outside complicated

1024
01:25:38,639 --> 01:25:45,520
stuff through architecture. I think we
saw this last week. There's a new um

1025
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:52,400
covered porch there. Right now there's a
a 4ft 4 inch by um 11 foot overhang

1026
01:25:50,800 --> 01:25:55,400
that's just can't delivered out into
space.

1027
01:26:05,840 --> 01:26:11,280
here. So, it's this this just can't
believe is out over nothing, which

1028
01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:15,040
really from an architectural standpoint,
it's not really proper, right? I mean,

1029
01:26:12,719 --> 01:26:21,040
it should be anchored. So, I put a
couple of um square um chamfered

1030
01:26:17,679 --> 01:26:27,840
columns, which would be just 8 by8 wood
post painted the same as the 8 8 in half

1031
01:26:24,480 --> 01:26:34,960
timbering on the house. Um and then that
would go down to a um a wooden porch

1032
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:39,440
lattice underneath, but it's there.
Yeah. Backyard.

1033
01:26:37,120 --> 01:26:44,239
» Jetty bays like that are very common to
this style of architecture.

1034
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:47,760
That would then mean you wouldn't need a
column. You

1035
01:26:45,760 --> 01:26:52,400
» That's not our purview. You may hear
that at the BART.

1036
01:26:49,520 --> 01:26:55,760
» Well, I mean, you could obviously can't
deliver out. That's a big can deliver

1037
01:26:54,480 --> 01:26:59,679
with no support underneath for a
traditional house, right? Modern houses,

1038
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:03,920
you see it a lot.
>> I mean, maybe in tuxedo park, you do see

1039
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:08,719
it. I'm not saying it's I'm not saying
that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I

1040
01:27:06,480 --> 01:27:12,159
think the, you know, architecture that
the anchoring of the column helps going

1041
01:27:11,360 --> 01:27:16,080
to tell you that
>> notes for your next review. [laughter]

1042
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:19,679
» Well, fortunately we don't we don't have
to apply enough

1043
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:23,440
» trying to be
>> Thank you though.

1044
01:27:20,560 --> 01:27:30,719
» You're welcome.
Um, also speaking of the BAR, I did ask

1045
01:27:26,639 --> 01:27:35,760
John to send me the some the audio of a
meeting and then spoke to another bar

1046
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:42,880
meet um member Christopher Gal this
afternoon about what was already said

1047
01:27:39,040 --> 01:27:49,520
about this property. They were specific
in their second um review of this that

1048
01:27:47,120 --> 01:27:56,960
they were concerned about the size of
the porcare and were willing to consider

1049
01:27:53,440 --> 01:28:01,360
it in with the understanding of the
owner's

1050
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:06,480
requirements that aren't necessarily
something they're obliged to accommodate

1051
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:10,719
but that they wanted the port kosher to
be minimal. So that's another thing

1052
01:28:08,560 --> 01:28:15,360
coming your way that may or may not be
applicable to how we review this. I

1053
01:28:12,719 --> 01:28:19,080
don't know. But it is something that
they're looking at.

1054
01:28:19,199 --> 01:28:27,840
And I, you know, as much as this helps
architecturally, aesthetically, this

1055
01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:33,440
might be challenged there, it might be
challenged here, too. If we're looking

1056
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:39,120
at it and thinking we would want to um
offer a minimal variance on that

1057
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:44,320
» setback. Yeah.
>> Then in reference to the two cars versus

1058
01:28:40,960 --> 01:28:48,639
one car or
>> um I think they were happy to

1059
01:28:46,560 --> 01:28:54,239
accommodate the two cars.
>> Um I personally as an architect I would

1060
01:28:52,159 --> 01:28:58,960
be pressing back that it could be a
different shape to accommodate two cars,

1061
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:04,639
but again that's not my board. Um but
they did talk about this and I thought

1062
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:07,040
in the tape that she might have been
willing to give that up. I could be

1063
01:29:06,080 --> 01:29:11,040
misremembering it.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think visually without

1064
01:29:08,960 --> 01:29:16,400
it, it's just going to look like a big
um you know, square box like you would

1065
01:29:13,760 --> 01:29:19,440
see at a catering hall uh entry, which I
think you know that that

1066
01:29:18,000 --> 01:29:24,000
» I mean, in my opinion,
>> square box,

1067
01:29:20,960 --> 01:29:28,480
» train station has a square box,
but this a lot of time. She really likes

1068
01:29:26,400 --> 01:29:33,840
this, but that would
>> I mean that there's not a variance

1069
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:38,639
required for for us. It just makes the
set back a little bit more. It's not

1070
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:42,400
much more, but it's four or five feet
more

1071
01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:48,320
» cuz the setback goes, you know, the
other drawing the other.

1072
01:29:45,360 --> 01:29:53,600
» Yes. Yes, that's you're right. You know,
your drawing better than I do.

1073
01:29:52,480 --> 01:29:58,320
» Yes. So, we're talking here.
>> Oh, that's correct. You are.

1074
01:29:55,440 --> 01:30:03,080
» So, it doesn't This does not really make
>> change the doesn't change doesn't make

1075
01:30:05,679 --> 01:30:11,320
but as an overall area and

1076
01:30:11,440 --> 01:30:14,920
define minimal

1077
01:30:16,639 --> 01:30:23,840
» minimal to make it look good.
>> Um that's subjective though. It is

1078
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:28,080
subjective but
>> but if we grant that variance they

1079
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:31,360
certainly could go under that
>> if

1080
01:30:28,639 --> 01:30:36,800
» right
>> yes thank you

1081
01:30:34,639 --> 01:30:40,320
» yeah I think yeah the the problem really
is the depth from the house and the

1082
01:30:38,239 --> 01:30:45,679
clearance for two vehicles between the
columns and being able to exit the

1083
01:30:42,400 --> 01:30:48,480
vehicles um right now they're going to
look like

1084
01:30:46,639 --> 01:30:57,040
» bar number two
>> exit and get out of it 19 19 ft column

1085
01:30:54,159 --> 01:31:01,360
to column inside.
>> It'll work, you know. Anyhow, I think

1086
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:04,880
what if they position the door with the
doors would be positioned between the

1087
01:31:02,719 --> 01:31:06,560
columns. So, I don't see any reason why
that would be

1088
01:31:05,520 --> 01:31:09,280
» Yeah. parking spot
>> difficult. They're going to have to be

1089
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:13,040
very careful even negotiating that,
right? Because of the the clearance to

1090
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:15,360
the columns that have two cars next to
two large vehicles next to each other.

1091
01:31:15,208 --> 01:31:18,960
[clears throat]
>> They have they both have large. I think

1092
01:31:17,199 --> 01:31:23,280
maybe in this direction it could be, you
know, maybe squeezed in a little bit,

1093
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:27,440
but then it starts to affect the
architecture front as well.

1094
01:31:25,840 --> 01:31:32,719
» And there are limitations. We couldn't
go any closer to the house because this

1095
01:31:29,360 --> 01:31:37,360
is an old coal she coal cellar. So we
make as part of the project, we're going

1096
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:40,800
to make a green roof um
but this is a roof right now with a coal

1097
01:31:40,320 --> 01:31:45,600
storage
>> something under there. It's a coal

1098
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:48,239
storage room. That's what used to be.
>> Okay.

1099
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:51,199
» Good. eliminate that.
>> I They don't want to change the history

1100
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:55,440
of the house.
>> It's underground.

1101
01:31:52,480 --> 01:31:58,560
» Yeah. It's just it's a nice history. Why
Why wreck it?

1102
01:31:57,120 --> 01:32:01,440
» What What is What's the issue with that?
You can't see it.

1103
01:31:59,840 --> 01:32:04,480
» You can't share.
>> Yeah. What's the thumb with that? Oh,

1104
01:32:02,719 --> 01:32:07,199
you mean to tuck a Chipole in closer to
the house

1105
01:32:05,360 --> 01:32:12,480
» and then that tree would have to
>> That tree would have to

1106
01:32:09,840 --> 01:32:15,480
move here, right? No joker. Go back to
>> driver.

1107
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:25,360
So these are very subjective comments
and um I don't

1108
01:32:22,480 --> 01:32:28,480
» I don't think that
>> I I don't I don't know. I

1109
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:34,159
» Yeah, I'm not sure that's our
>> to just to something a couple feet

1110
01:32:31,440 --> 01:32:39,040
doesn't make to me doesn't make sense to
>> I mean as far Yes. As far as for this

1111
01:32:36,239 --> 01:32:45,280
board goes, if we approve the variances
and and you and it and you shrink that

1112
01:32:41,440 --> 01:32:50,080
fine doesn't difference. Okay.
>> And we did we worked hard to minimize

1113
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:52,880
everything. We took patio out here. We
like totally

1114
01:32:51,440 --> 01:32:56,159
» right. Well, I like this too instead of
this.

1115
01:32:54,639 --> 01:33:00,480
But even though that wasn't part of your
purview either because we weren't we

1116
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:04,719
were within setbacks, it just made a lot
more sense

1117
01:33:01,760 --> 01:33:12,159
» and it made it more cost effective.
Um so the variances are at the full

1118
01:33:08,639 --> 01:33:16,000
bunch of small active sideyard varants
and then this front yard variance.

1119
01:33:14,800 --> 01:33:19,120
» Yes.
>> And then there's a lot of

1120
01:33:16,960 --> 01:33:23,600
non-conforming.
>> Yeah.

1121
01:33:20,239 --> 01:33:27,679
» So in the past we it was required to ask
for variances for all the

1122
01:33:25,040 --> 01:33:32,960
non-conforming. The whole house is now
>> is that typical?

1123
01:33:30,480 --> 01:33:35,760
Um I think our own council has advised
us to at least acknowledge the

1124
01:33:34,639 --> 01:33:38,080
nonformance.
>> Right.

1125
01:33:36,719 --> 01:33:41,679
» Even though it's not being any
>> but we're not approving the existing.

1126
01:33:40,080 --> 01:33:45,679
» No, you're just acknowledging there is
some existing non-conformance. It's not

1127
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:50,719
being made any more non.
>> Right. Right. Okay.

1128
01:33:49,120 --> 01:33:54,374
» And that should be evidence in the site
plan table.

1129
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:56,394
» It is.
[clears throat]

1130
01:33:56,639 --> 01:34:05,920
» What about the imperous surfaces? We
>> we took out the gravel and um we also

1131
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:10,560
reduced the number the surfaces. We
>> came under it's not it's not a bar

1132
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:15,040
request anymore.
>> Even though the house is so big on the

1133
01:34:12,080 --> 01:34:18,719
lot, we're still under.
>> So you're down to three variances,

1134
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:22,880
right? Just three.
>> Let me just double check. I believe it

1135
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:26,000
is
front yard set. the front yard set step

1136
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:31,000
set step set step set step set step set

1137
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:32,159
step set step set step set step set step
setback the side yard side yard set back

1138
01:34:30,639 --> 01:34:36,320
» which is
>> oh no we also have I think I believe oh

1139
01:34:34,639 --> 01:34:42,000
that's non-conforming
okay lock coverage no not lock coverage

1140
01:34:39,120 --> 01:34:46,679
that was changed I'm sorry and um the
sideyard side be

1141
01:34:50,800 --> 01:35:01,080
» not covered just Let's review something.
>> Yeah, it's we have it. We have it um

1142
01:34:56,880 --> 01:35:01,080
cloud that was changing

1143
01:35:04,239 --> 01:35:10,560
well in the last one that I'm citing um
regarding building on a lot under a

1144
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,760
certain size.
>> Yes.

1145
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:15,120
» Right.
>> But this is under

1146
01:35:13,920 --> 01:35:18,320
everything about this property
>> because it's a less than a oneacre lot.

1147
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:22,960
» Yeah.
Apparently the allowance in this area is

1148
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:27,520
75 of an acre and our existing condition
is 65 66

1149
01:35:26,560 --> 01:35:30,400
» is not being made any more
non-conformant. I just cited it because

1150
01:35:29,600 --> 01:35:36,960
it's in the code.
>> It's an existing condition.

1151
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:41,040
» No, I mean I visited the site and it's a
problematic site now. I think this will

1152
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:45,840
improve
the entire area substantially.

1153
01:35:43,679 --> 01:35:51,280
» Thank you.
That's her object objective.

1154
01:35:48,800 --> 01:35:55,440
» Um, we still we are still meeting is
open to the public right now. Still

1155
01:35:53,840 --> 01:35:59,280
» um,
>> are you done?

1156
01:35:58,400 --> 01:36:04,080
» Yes.
>> Is there anyone from the public who

1157
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:07,040
would like to speak at this point?
I think people are just hanging on from

1158
01:36:05,760 --> 01:36:10,960
the old meeting.
>> Christopher G probably listen to the

1159
01:36:09,120 --> 01:36:13,520
» Chris. Do you have anything?
>> Maybe not.

1160
01:36:11,679 --> 01:36:18,000
» No one has their hands up,
>> right? Peter lives across the street to

1161
01:36:16,320 --> 01:36:23,800
sleep
>> watching the uh soccer game. [laughter]

1162
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:23,800
All right.

1163
01:36:24,639 --> 01:36:29,679
» Nothing. Nothing.
>> Yeah. No. No public interest.

1164
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:31,840
» All right. Uh there's no public hearing.
I'd like to make a motion to close the

1165
01:36:31,120 --> 01:36:36,600
public hearing.
>> So moved. All in

1166
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,600
» favor? I

1167
01:36:39,840 --> 01:36:47,400
Okay. um
board discussion

1168
01:36:47,920 --> 01:36:54,560
actors.
>> As I say, I I applaud I think it's a

1169
01:36:51,760 --> 01:36:57,679
it's a problematic site. Obviously, we
want to do anything to it. They're going

1170
01:36:55,920 --> 01:37:03,679
to have to ask for some kind of a
variance and what they proposed is very

1171
01:36:59,840 --> 01:37:06,239
reasonable. Proves the character.
>> Are we going to vote variance by

1172
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:09,040
variance?
>> No.

1173
01:37:06,719 --> 01:37:13,600
» No. We'll vote. We'll vote. We'll vote
the the best print dated

1174
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:17,080
» this date. What's the revision on that
plan?

1175
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,080
» 62526.

1176
01:37:18,159 --> 01:37:24,800
» Should we support
the bars

1177
01:37:22,880 --> 01:37:30,880
coming and already expressed opinion
about port being minimal or this just

1178
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:34,600
the facts, ma'am, and it's the number?
>> That's the bars provided.

1179
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:43,360
So it doesn't add anything that we said
>> deferring to the bar.

1180
01:37:40,480 --> 01:37:48,080
» I'm sure you would. Well, no. I would
not suggest doing that. They're an

1181
01:37:45,440 --> 01:37:52,119
independent board just like you are.
>> Yeah. So far anyway,

1182
01:37:56,159 --> 01:38:02,000
» um
the board ready to vote. Do you want to

1183
01:38:00,239 --> 01:38:05,639
just real quick go through the five
factors here?

1184
01:38:06,719 --> 01:38:13,600
I've heard character of the neighborhood
so far problematic site will need a

1185
01:38:10,719 --> 01:38:18,560
variance to do anything which kind of
goes to all of the factors really

1186
01:38:15,760 --> 01:38:22,800
substantiality etc
>> right but it certainly does not change

1187
01:38:20,480 --> 01:38:26,639
it's not an undesirable
>> not produce an undesirable

1188
01:38:24,480 --> 01:38:30,000
» narrowing the cochair that's a
non-starter it's

1189
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:33,199
» not our purview really to get that
specific we're either going to let them

1190
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:38,480
have that distance or not
>> narrowing the port share

1191
01:38:35,679 --> 01:38:43,920
» to one car is going to be able to opine
on how the how it is designed. We're

1192
01:38:40,880 --> 01:38:48,080
just going to allow it to allow a
variance if the bar

1193
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:51,920
» but if and [clears throat] narrowing it
does not reduce the variance based on

1194
01:38:50,880 --> 01:38:56,480
the drawings,
>> right?

1195
01:38:53,520 --> 01:39:01,119
» Potentially could but that's for the bar
as well because they have a right to go

1196
01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:04,159
more strict than the variance we're
granting them.

1197
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:07,360
science standpoint,
>> right? They they can't go past the

1198
01:39:05,679 --> 01:39:10,560
variance. They can they can go less than
the variance obviously.

1199
01:39:08,560 --> 01:39:13,960
» So they've got a lot of room to
>> do their job.

1200
01:39:16,400 --> 01:39:27,360
» Um and um
could it be achieved by another method

1201
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:29,760
other than the variance? Um
of course. Okay.

1202
01:39:28,639 --> 01:39:33,040
» It would probably just require a
different variant. It would just require

1203
01:39:31,199 --> 01:39:40,719
a different variant because it's not
there or not. Um,

1204
01:39:35,199 --> 01:39:46,159
» is the requested variant substantial?
>> Uh, I would not consider it substantial

1205
01:39:43,440 --> 01:39:53,119
on a percentage basis.
>> Yeah. Anyone else? Great.

1206
01:39:50,400 --> 01:39:57,840
» Um, whether proposed variance will have
an adverse effect or impact on the

1207
01:39:55,119 --> 01:40:03,679
physical or environmental conditions in
the neighborhood of the district. um

1208
01:40:01,679 --> 01:40:08,400
you know, cutting down a few more trees,
but you know, I would have to say that

1209
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:10,960
it it's minimal. All right. And you're
putting a lot of trees back in.

1210
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:12,719
» You're going to plant more.
>> You're going to plant more than it's

1211
01:40:12,159 --> 01:40:15,920
coming out,
>> particularly down towards

1212
01:40:14,080 --> 01:40:19,840
» Well, that's cuz Karen likes to put
plants.

1213
01:40:17,679 --> 01:40:24,480
» She likes plants.
>> Um and whether the ledge difficulty is

1214
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:29,040
self-created. All right. which
considerations shall be relevant to the

1215
01:40:27,119 --> 01:40:34,159
decision of this board but that shall
not necessarily preclude the granting of

1216
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:37,840
the area variance.
Um

1217
01:40:36,159 --> 01:40:43,040
I personally am comfortable with
anything and I'd like to make a motion

1218
01:40:39,760 --> 01:40:49,880
to approve the application per that
dated print. Um what's the date?

1219
01:40:45,760 --> 01:40:49,880
» 625 2026.

1220
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:58,280
» So move second. All in favor?
>> I

1221
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:58,280
» Thank you very

1222
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:24,159
» We don't have minutes.
But Desire, you sent us the minutes.

1223
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:28,320
» Yep. I sent them
>> that we already approved.

1224
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:30,800
» Uh the June 3rd one.
>> Not

1225
01:41:29,119 --> 01:41:34,560
» the June 3rd. Can you hear me?
>> No, that's what we didn't get. We didn't

1226
01:41:32,480 --> 01:41:38,239
get the June 3rd meeting. We got We got
an older one. We got one that was

1227
01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:41,119
lethitises.
>> Oh, cuz I sent

1228
01:41:40,639 --> 01:41:45,760
» what
>> it was. What we got was Lepitis and we

1229
01:41:44,400 --> 01:41:49,199
already had approved that.
>> Oh, okay. Gee, I thought I sent

1230
01:41:47,679 --> 01:41:52,400
» No problem. We had enough things to do
today.

1231
01:41:51,040 --> 01:41:55,280
» All right.
>> I know I sent it to John.

1232
01:41:53,600 --> 01:41:56,960
» Thank you very much everyone. We'll pick
it up.

1233
01:41:55,840 --> 01:42:01,440
» Good to see you again.
>> You too.

1234
01:41:58,719 --> 01:42:10,760
» We're
doing the HVAC engineer cooler outside

1235
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:10,760
day [clears throat] people.