[0:05] It is 7 o'clock and I'd like to make a
motion to open the meeting.
[0:09] All
>> in favor?
[0:10] » I
>> um and the notice is uh that we're going
[0:15] to break it up in two parts. The Tuxedo
Club continuation of the public hearing
[0:20] for the Tuxedo Club one West Lake Road,
Tuxedo Park, New York. Tax Map 107-1-3-2
[0:29] regarding sound levels and seeking
relief from the following sections of
[0:32] the the village of Tuxedo Park zoning
code. Zoning code 100-18A
[0:38] fences no fence shall be over 2'6 in in
height and shall be erected without the
[0:45] building permit and the approval of the
board of architecture review in
[0:49] accordance with article 8 of this
chapter. Any fence erected in the front
[0:54] yard shall not exceed 4 feet in height.
Any fence erected in the rear or sidey
[0:58] yards may not exceed 6 feet in height.
No fence shall be located closer than 5t
[1:04] to any roadway or closer than 2 feet to
any property line. Notwithstanding the
[1:10] foregoing, no fence shall be erected,
maintained which shall interfere or
[1:14] interferes with the light or air of an
adjoining lot or building thereof. where
[1:20] in this application the maximum
permitted fence height in the rear and
[1:23] side yard is six feet. Pre-existing
fence was 10 feet and four 13 ft high
[1:30] fence sections have been constructed. Um
I'd like to um reopen the public hearing
[1:38] and uh and I would then have the uh
applicant um present.
[1:47] » Good evening.
for not being present with you for your
[1:51] last meeting. Thank you for indulgence
in continum.
[1:55] I'm Michael Susman. I represent the club
and I have made a written submission
[2:00] through your council which I believe was
circulated.
[2:04] Both sides have made I don't want to be
redundant. I want to share a few basic
[2:09] points.
Maybe you should use the mic. Sure.
[2:18] » Yes. Is that better?
>> That's better.
[2:20] » Thank you.
>> The experienced building inspector made
[2:23] an informed decision to permit the pedal
court knowing the mentions and
[2:29] [clears throat] qualities.
The courts were built in broad daylight.
[2:34] No one timely challenged his allowance
which of course was the required remedy
[2:39] for anyone offended by his use of
discretion afforded him. Any such
[2:45] challenge in my view is now unfinly
before its existence.
[2:50] The building specs decision moreover was
rational
[2:54] given as you just read that provision.
The lack of any adverse externalities
[3:02] associated with the size of the fence.
We know where this is located. We know
[3:09] it's located distant from any roadway.
You know it's located this many property
[3:15] owners probably
>> and the the issues which are implicated
[3:20] by the provision you read relate to such
externalities. They don't relate to a
[3:25] situation like this.
Moreover,
[3:30] there is no evidence or there's been a
lot of discussion about it of a noise
[3:34] disturbance. The noise study we
presented this confirms the conclusion.
[3:39] However,
in consideration of the concerns you
[3:44] raised and the light of my client's
history of fitting in and advancing
[3:49] community values,
we are prepared to add sound dead
[3:55] batting and fencing to the existing
tennis court fence next to the podel
[4:01] court as well as additional tree
planting at a cost of approximately
[4:05] $24,000.
We believe this should resolve any
[4:10] perceived issue and offer further
aesthetic consideration to those
[4:15] concerned.
Mrs. St. John momentarily will provide
[4:19] you some more detail as to that. So you
have it.
[4:24] In my view, in light of the statutory
purpose as we discussed a few moments
[4:28] ago, the varying slot is minor. It poses
no aesthetic harm or otherwise. It is
[4:36] required because a fence of the height
saw is an essential element or component
[4:42] of a pedel court which now does exist
and creates no issue for anyone.
[4:49] I believe those who oppose this facet on
to the magnitude of the variance but in
[4:54] my view understood holistically
it is minor and functionally
[4:59] appropriate.
Replacing a tennis court on the same
[5:04] profile with a bell court does not find
an expansion of use in my view. My
[5:10] esteemed colleague who I've known for
many years, Mr. Lynch, suggests
[5:14] otherwise, but I believe cites
distinguishable case law. There is no
[5:19] intensification of any non-conforming
use here, and the minimal differences
[5:24] between the racket sports makes any such
conclusion unsustainable
[5:29] and strain. If one looks at cases cited,
you'll see expansions of use which are
[5:35] meant to functionally expand whatever
the productive activity then going on
[5:40] was not a replacement of one byl like
activity.
[5:45] The statutory factors which apply to
area not use varies supply as I've
[5:51] explained in my submission which I won't
repeat favor this application.
[5:57] I want to say only one final word and I
don't mean it to be preachy but I do
[6:03] believe that it should inform
conversation.
[6:07] I recognize from my career it's been 15
years of advocacy
[6:13] and we live in a culture which is
characterized at this point by
[6:17] oppositionality and cooperation.
Perturbance rather than consiliation is
[6:22] pervasive.
Respectfully,
[6:25] this board, I believe, should accept the
mitigation we're proposing tonight and a
[6:30] spirit of cooperation to assist those
who have raised issue. The club has long
[6:36] been a good neighbor in this community,
as evidenced by the withdrawal of the
[6:41] request for lighting of courts so as to
minimize any new impact might be
[6:47] experienced by its warer here tonight.
Thank you for your opportunity to
[6:52] present. I would, as I mentioned, like
to have Mr. St. Sean come up for a
[6:57] moment and [clears throat] explain the
mitigation efforts since he's much more
[7:01] familiar with mine.
[7:07] » So uh we've identified a product called
acousta block and it is basically from a
[7:15] distance looks like a tennis screen or a
wind screen which are currently on all
[7:19] the carts that have courts that happen.
Uh it's a much denser heavier material
[7:24] used specifically for uh racket sports
pickle ball.
[7:31] It is the entire length of the fence the
height of the fence reaches
[7:35] approximately 10 ft. It will go in four
sections. a 15 ft section, a 53 ft
[7:43] section, a 60 ft section, and a 15 ft
section that are currently on what we
[7:48] call our temp score
three, two, and three. Um, we think that
[7:54] this will be as inobtrusive as possible
visually and match the current look of
[7:59] the courts as closely as we can, but
provide significant uh dampening for any
[8:05] sound that may be escaping from the
courts.
[8:08] Do
>> you have a cut sheet of it?
[8:10] » Uh, I do. I don't have it with me. J, I
have to mail it to you.
[8:15] » Would you spell that? I couldn't
understand. What's it called?
[8:18] » A K O U S E I C E L O.
[8:35] » Well, that's a good name. It's what
we'll see though.
[8:40] Looks a little more.
[8:44] » So, this would be the product that you
intend to use. And this drawing here is
[8:52] is is how you No, I think we should make
a copy of this and enter this into the
[8:57] record.
>> Absolutely. You might want to give
[9:01] everybody a copy,
>> right? Yeah. Could you make copy of
[9:03] that?
>> It says in there. The other thing I
[9:04] should say is that it attaches to the
existing pens and hangs off it. So
[9:08] there's no other structure that needs to
be added to support it.
[9:17] » Can we ask questions?
Can we ask questions?
[9:21] » What
>> can we ask?
[9:22] » Yeah, sure.
as your acitician studied this with
[9:26] regards to the proximity of the Michans
and other people who have complained
[9:31] about noise
to to determine whether this does indeed
[9:35] mitigate noise coming from the pedel
court.
[9:39] » Studies on this product have shown it
mitigates noise coming from Padell and
[9:42] pickle ball courts.
>> But the acistician that you had hired
[9:46] that they folded it into their review.
No,
[9:49] » we did not have the sound study p
[10:01] Thank you.
[10:10] » Attorney speak.
>> Does anyone else want to be heard?
[10:15] » Well, I'm sure there are other people
want to be heard, but if you raised if
[10:18] you raised your hand first, then you
could speak.
[10:32] chairperson and members of the board.
Thank you very much. Dennis Lynch for my
[10:36] clients who are present here tonight. Um
I always take to heart what Mr. Susman
[10:40] says because he's a fantastic attorney
and what he said tonight about
[10:45] collaboration and not being
oppositional.
[10:49] That's the first time I've heard that
and we welcome that. And if there is
[10:53] going to be some type of mitigation
uh whether it's trees or some type of uh
[11:01] material there uh I think it behooves
the board to find out what that is. One
[11:08] of the me members of the board raised
the question about you know the studies
[11:11] or impact and come back uh between now
and the next planning next BCA meeting
[11:16] with a plan. what's the plan on the
shrubbery? What's the plan on this?
[11:21] What's the plan on that? You know, we
welcome uh mitigating efforts, but to
[11:26] come tonight at the last minute and
present something which I would say is
[11:31] somewhat amorphous and especially
because a letter was just handed up
[11:35] which we don't have a copy yet, but even
if we get a copy tonight, we need time
[11:39] to take a look at it. Uh so I'm not
suggesting that you know we just
[11:43] postpone things for the sake of but I
think it there are going to be
[11:48] mitigation measures.
We should see those in black and white.
[11:52] We should see them in drawing. They
should be submitted and certainly uh I
[11:57] think that might go a long way to try to
resolve this. I assume everybody here on
[12:01] the board has gotten a copy of the order
from last week.
[12:05] » I made sure that we got it early because
no one board members was concerned
[12:09] before. So, I'm not going to repeat
everything in there. The night is long,
[12:13] but just a few points that Mr. Susman
made. Number one, uh, we have never seen
[12:18] a cloak decision by John Ledwick. We
foiled the papers. We looked at the
[12:24] documents. We never saw a quote
decision. And, um, and certainly if we
[12:29] saw that, we could take action, but we
haven't seen that. Now, if there's some
[12:33] decision somewhere that we haven't seen,
I would ask that be produced. We can
[12:37] take a look at it. The other points that
Mr. Susman raised, um I I think I've
[12:42] addressed them in my letter to the to
the board. Um you know,
[12:47] no permit application for the PEL court,
no decision on the permit application
[12:54] for the PEL court. Um you know, we
raising other issues about the ARB not
[12:59] being involved, the construction that is
construction, the disturbance of the
[13:04] soil. I mean, I know this board and this
village is very concerned about
[13:08] environmental issues and I think that
the construction has brought about
[13:12] issues that have to be looked at. So,
not to delay the time, we respect you as
[13:16] volunteers being here. Uh, but I
certainly think that um my my letter
[13:22] sets forth our position and again, if
there's something that's going to be new
[13:25] that's going to make a difference that
may actually resolve it, I think it's
[13:29] comment upon the board to adjourn the
meeting tonight, give us a chance to
[13:33] review it. I'm happy to speak with Mr.
Susman. He's always a pleasure to speak
[13:37] with and um we can try to resolve it if
we can. So, thank you for your time.
[13:41] Appreciate it.
[13:50] » Uh are there any other members of the
public that wish to speak at this time?
[14:06] Thank you. My name is Stephanie Brenna.
I speak as a private resident, not as
[14:10] not in relation to the B
where I work sometimes. Um, I would urge
[14:18] people
if something could be found to please
[14:23] consider the wildlife. I've been on the
board of New York City's Wild Bird Fund
[14:29] for nine years and I know what glass
does to birds. Every broken neck of
[14:35] every daddy cardinal will cause all the
nestlings to starve to death. Um would
[14:41] would anyone like to enjoy paddle cord?
With that in mind, I already know that
[14:47] dead birds are found within these glass
walls that no bird can possibly see. And
[14:54] it's I think it's just so cruel, you
know. It's paddle board is or whatever
[14:59] you call it. Paddle board is is to do
with enjoying yourself in nature, a
[15:05] sporting activity with your friends and
having fun. I think you can have fun in
[15:10] nature without glass walls and without
crucifying your neighbors with this
[15:15] sound. I if it was me, I would just take
the thing down and play tennis.
[15:22] it, you know, it's like like everyone
does. It's it's fun. We don't need
[15:26] another fad. We don't need to kill
wildlife for a fad. America used to have
[15:32] a parrot. It's now extinct because women
in the 19th century thought it would
[15:39] they looked prettier with a green
feather on their head.
[15:43] That's what we're doing here. We're
destroying these birds for a for a fed.
[15:49] In one region in Spain where paddle
courts have been introduced,
[15:54] 75,000
birds were counted dead in one season.
[16:00] So there are many more than you think.
And um I'd really like you I'd beg you
[16:05] to consider it because many of the
residents that are paying taxes here
[16:10] come here because of the beauty of the
nature that people love listening to the
[16:15] birds and the silence. So thank you so
much for listening.
[16:29] » Any other comments?
[16:33] So unwind.
>> I'd like I'd like to comment.
[16:38] » Hi Chrissy Corridor 81 Lauraard
and um we've been members of the club
[16:44] for eight years. We've been across the
street for eight years. Um we're not big
[16:50] brackets people. We're recently
introduced to tennis and to pedal. But I
[16:55] will say that in the summer there's no
more joyous sound to us than sitting
[17:01] outside on our patio and listening to
tennis balls and listening to bell balls
[17:06] and listening to children and listening
to people having fun. We actually sit
[17:11] outside at night and we listen to it and
we set up our dinner out there and we
[17:16] just love it and it's part of summer for
us and part of the noise of summer and
[17:22] also one of the reasons we chose to live
across the street from a tennis club and
[17:27] from a pool. There are a lot of
different places to live in Tuxedo Park.
[17:32] And if you choose to live across from a
club and a tennis club and a pool, those
[17:38] are the noises. We find it joyous. That
was our choice. And you know, we're in
[17:43] huge support. Again, we're not big
rackets players, but it's just a fun
[17:49] sound. It's just it's it's it's summer
for us, and so we're in complete favor
[17:55] and complete support.
[18:07] there else?
[18:15] » Uh, Robert Lopez. Uh, my wife and I are
residents at 75 Summit Road uh just
[18:22] above uh the club. Uh residents for 5
years now. um and members also for 5
[18:28] years. I couldn't agree more uh with
Miss Crawford and um those residents
[18:34] that the PEL courts since they've been
installed have like increased the fabric
[18:39] of the community uh the members of the
club. It's been uh an incredible
[18:44] experience uh a great time uh in the
summer uh and a great experience overall
[18:49] and bringing more of the residents in
the club. And I couldn't agree more that
[18:53] if you do live near the club like you
should expect there to be a little bit
[18:57] more traffic there should you should
expect there to be a little bit more
[19:00] noise. If you live near a pool uh that's
kind of one of the the the aspects of it
[19:05] happening. And so I think that you know
we drive by it every single day. Um, and
[19:09] it's been a great addition to the
overall community, uh, to the club and,
[19:14] uh, I couldn't I couldn't agree more
with, uh, Miss Crawford and and her
[19:18] statement. So, uh, thank you very much
and appreciate it.
[19:30] » I guess I have a question for for Randy.
this the the the proposal and the
[19:35] estimate for acousta block is is this
what you intend to do everything that's
[19:42] in this and and the drawing that shows
where you're going to be placing it that
[19:48] that is the intent
>> that's the intent and then that's the
[19:51] existing fence for the current port two
and three and terms of the tree plan
[19:57] question right along we've had all every
plan to replace I think it was five
[20:03] trees been took down, a couple were
dead, a couple were drainage issues,
[20:06] whatever it might have been. But we've
always had that plan and we're actually
[20:10] working on the species plan right now to
do probably late September because
[20:14] obviously we're not
>> planting trees right now, but the plan
[20:19] would be to do those in late September.
>> Now the this material is this material
[20:24] available?
>> Yes.
[20:26] » How how soon could something like this
be installed? If if this is process
[20:32] approved, I'll place the order tomorrow.
So, I don't know exactly how long it
[20:36] will take, but I can place the order
tomorrow.
[20:39] » I have a question. Oh, sorry.
>> Yeah, you want everybody to finish
[20:43] first, I guess.
>> Oh, sorry.
[20:44] » Okay. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
>> Oh, no. I'm just like, it sounds like a
[20:48] good idea, but what if it doesn't
prevent the sound that we're getting? We
[20:51] don't get a lovely, you know, little
tennis sound. We get a gunshot sound
[20:55] around the clock.
[snorts and clears throat] So, what if
[20:57] it doesn't prevent the sound? material
does take the decibb down. I mean, I'm
[21:01] familiar with this material. It does
take the decibb down. To say how much it
[21:05] comes down, I can't tell. And until you
put it up, you're really not going to be
[21:09] able to. But it does lessen the noise.
>> Well, no, I'm familiar with the
[21:13] material, too.
>> Um, and it is a matter of how it's
[21:17] placed. It's a matter of contours of the
land, trees,
[21:21] wind, exposure, lots of things that I'm
not an expert to just to make a
[21:28] determination and certainly not on the
spot. It requires an acoustician or
[21:33] you're not taking this seriously enough.
>> That's just a fact.
[21:39] » You mean to install it and
>> just throw it out on the table and ask
[21:43] us to look at it right here and now.
>> Oh yeah. and believe what the applicant
[21:48] is saying without hearing an independent
scientist at Hustision say yes this will
[21:55] work under these conditions to mitigate
the Marshon's sound issue the uh the
[22:01] other person who came last time who said
she can hear it
[22:04] » guath
>> she's way up a valley
[22:09] » it just doesn't seem fair
>> we can we can also profess From the
[22:16] beginning I have said
>> from the beginning I have
[22:22] » quiet from the beginning I have said
that if we can properly mitigate this
[22:27] that is the way to make everyone happy.
I have asked practically beg
[22:33] » that we do a study. Let the experts
decide this and you're not. It doesn't
[22:39] sound like anybody wants to if they want
to install this tomorrow.
[22:46] » Their hands raised on the on the zoom.
Somebody else wants to talk.
[22:52] » Mr. singing quarter.
[23:00] » Who else was
>> can you guys hear me?
[23:02] » Okay.
>> Hi everyone. Drew Singh, uh 37 Fox Hill.
[23:08] Um you know, I just just want to say
that I myself uh been a tennis player
[23:14] for
35 years. Uh, and you know, I've
[23:20] certainly played Padell a few times, uh,
but I've probably played tennis 10 times
[23:25] for every time I play Pedell. And just
want to add, uh, to some of the
[23:30] sentiments here where, uh, having the
life, the energy, watching kids learn to
[23:36] play racket sports. It's so much easier
to pick it up. uh bringing so many
[23:40] members of the community that I mean
tennis is just it's it's a it's a pretty
[23:44] challenging game and it's something
where it doesn't it makes it difficult
[23:48] to get started
>> and you know from [clears throat] my
[23:51] perspective I think this just really
rounds out our rackage program and uh
[23:56] sports and offerings and you know having
such life and such vibrance brought into
[24:01] the community. Um, I thought, uh, Miss
Crawford said it so well, uh, that it
[24:08] really brings energy and energy handful
of months a year. Uh, and I'm a huge
[24:16] proponent um, of the
Padell courts, which by the way, as as
[24:23] described by council, really are a near
identical use, right? You're taking one
[24:28] racket sport and putting in another
racket sport. Uh and uh uh but I do
[24:34] think at the same time it adds so much
to the community uh beyond uh just
[24:40] having yet another tennis court there.
And this is just coming from someone who
[24:44] again plays much more tennis than
Podell, but I'm a big fan of it.
[24:51] » Can I respond to that? I would like it
across from your house, too. Okay. Then
[24:56] I wouldn't have to
>> What I would say is that there there was
[24:59] a tennis court already across from your
house. is my point, right? So, the
[25:02] reality is that there there were already
but this gives you an opportunity to but
[25:07] the reality is that if you could have
the other tennis courts replaced, right?
[25:10] Because
>> we can't have back and forth going
[25:14] you can't you can't you can't have back
and forth please.
[25:17] » Nothing like
>> entitled to his opinion.
[25:19] » Yeah, you're entitled to
>> years we've never complained about
[25:22] tennis. It's a different sound. It's a
gunshot loud popping sound that goes
[25:29] into December round the clock.
>> Come hear it.
[25:32] » I'm gonna have to call for order.
Really?
[25:35] » I'm going to have to call for order.
>> Oh, you said no. Back and forth. Okay.
[25:38] You had your opportunity to speak before
>> and someone is waiting to speak.
[25:45] » Hi, Shander Mesler. I live at 15
Clubhouse Road Extension, which puts me
[25:49] almost backtoback with Bisquoffne who I
understand spoke at the last meeting.
[25:54] So, I I would just like to add a
slightly different angle to this
[25:57] conversation. So, I I'm sympathetic to
the neighbors and the noise. I mean, I
[26:00] sit in my Yeah, spend Sundays and I can
hear the music in the pool for sure.
[26:04] It's not my favorite music, so I often
turn on other music. Um, but what I
[26:08] would add to this conversation in
support of the club putting in the
[26:13] chords or having maintaining the chords
is that we all benefit as neighbors to
[26:17] the club from having a healthy club. And
my understanding is that membership has
[26:22] been on a downtrend and I do see when I
tell my friends in New York City that we
[26:28] have Padell there, you know, they're
very peaked. I understand that it's it's
[26:32] a fattish trend and it's kind of trendy
right now, but I do think it's it's
[26:36] definitely a sport that's here to stay
and I think it will attract new members
[26:40] to the club and I think we all benefit
from having a healthy, robust club
[26:43] membership. So, I just wanted to add
that sentiment, but I I also appreciate
[26:48] the sound concerns because I am
neighbors of Miss Guapne and I can hear
[26:52] it, but I there's trade-offs as with
everything.
[26:55] » Thank you.
>> May I ask Randy something?
[27:01] » Uh Randy, we got a lot of emails the
board uh from Lindseay Maxwell about
[27:07] trees. Is that part of your plan or was
that his own plan? I didn't quite get
[27:12] it. Uh Mr. Maxwell is on our landscaping
committee. He has taken it upon himself.
[27:19] I received those late this afternoon
right before this meeting. I haven't
[27:22] looked at
>> um we will look at those within the
[27:26] landscape committee as well as our
superintendent. There's responsibility
[27:30] for all plantings, but we're still
developing the plan at this point. We
[27:33] have a list of species obviously
that'll, you know, be within the
[27:39] code of the park, but we have don't we
don't have a finalized plan yet. He's
[27:44] just adding and supporting it.
>> That's right. And and about um with with
[27:48] that corner in particular near that that
intersection, you could reduce in theory
[27:53] uh 5 to seven dB with a careful set of
plantings. And so there's an idea that
[27:58] could combine, you know, the the
official buffer plus some plantings to
[28:02] achieve a goal.
[clears throat]
[28:09] » May I also say we've been at this for
two years almost. And why two years
[28:16] later are we getting these suggestions
at the last minute?
[28:22] » I can't speak to his timing. I received
it today. Okay. But um we have always
[28:28] contended that we would wait till the
project was done in the destruction as
[28:31] well as we were doing some other work on
the exterior of the tennis building last
[28:35] year, repairs to the roof and so on. So
that's why we didn't do them last year.
[28:39] Those are now substantially complete and
the plan is to do them at the end of
[28:43] this September. The treatment,
>> but I guess the problem we have is we
[28:48] really don't know specifically. All we
can really have is a commit from you to
[28:53] provide additional landscaping at this
point with but it would be undefined.
[29:00] I
>> think Mr. Porter has his hand up.
[29:03] » Great. Thank you. Uh can you guys hear
me? Okay.
[29:05] » Yes.
>> Great. Well, first of all to the members
[29:07] of the BZA, thank you for for your
service, right? Uh I know you're acting
[29:12] in the best interest of our community.
So so thank you for that. Um my wife
[29:16] Chrissy spoke. I just want to say one
quick thing. You know, it's um padell.
[29:20] It's wildly wildly popular in our
community, right? Wildly popular. And
[29:26] it's a gentle sport. It's underhand.
People of all ages can play. My my my
[29:32] daughter who's 8 years old plays. Her
grandparents play. It's a very gentle
[29:36] sport and it's been around since 1969.
So, I agree with Chandra. It's not going
[29:40] anywhere, right? I know for a fact that
it's attracting new families to our to
[29:44] our community. So, I would just urge um
and and and respectfully request the
[29:49] board to take all this into
consideration, right? And again, I want
[29:52] to thank you guys for your service and
and um anyway, we're here to to help out
[29:56] in any way we can.
[30:05] » Any other comments from the public?
I just I'm hearing that there's uh been
[30:12] communications by the club members or
someone from the club about trees to
[30:17] board members. Um those communications
have never been um [clears throat]
[30:22] revealed, never been, as of my
knowledge, made part of the official
[30:26] record.
>> They they they have not been they're
[30:29] only they're only letters that have come
in. Okay. But they will be part of
[30:33] » they'll be part of the of the official
record
[30:35] » and they just came in and so obviously
they'll be part of the record and you
[30:39] would have access to them. They're just
we just got
[30:42] » made that what what I'm trying to find
out is that you know you've heard many
[30:47] things and what I heard from the
chairman kind of concerns me about well
[30:51] we'll build it and then let them build
it and see what the impacts are. I don't
[30:54] think the chairman actually said we'll
let them build it and then
[30:58] » there was a discussion about by the
chairman about only if it's built will
[31:02] we know the impact in words of that
substance. So I'm saying that's the
[31:06] » well that that's the the match.
>> It's the antithesis of to me proper land
[31:11] use. You know you get all the facts of
you know even things like the trees not
[31:16] just the trees and bushes but what's
going to be the maintenance plan? I mean
[31:20] that's one of the critical things. How
are they going to maintain it? What if
[31:23] it's planted and dies within a couple
years? Alls I'm saying is that with all
[31:27] this new information, there's no reason
to to rush into it and see.
[31:32] » We've been at this for two years.
>> Okay. We've been at this for two years.
[31:36] We're going to move We're going to move
forward. We're going to move forward.
[31:38] We're going to move forward. We've been
at this for two years. We're going to
[31:41] move forward.
>> You may have, but I think it's unfair. I
[31:45] think it's improper. I think it's
illegal.
[31:47] » And what if it doesn't do the mitigation
that it's supposed to?
[31:50] » We can't have this back and forth. All
right. You had your opportunity to
[31:53] speak. All right.
>> Well, this is new to us, too. So
[32:04] » I respect what everybody has said here
tonight
[32:08] and they're obviously two opposing camps
but the solution
[32:15] I mean the problem is not that people
want to destroy Padell in this
[32:22] community. That is not the problem.
Everybody supports Padell in this
[32:28] community. Everybody wants a Padell
court, but it the problem is where it's
[32:34] placed.
And it's placed in a neighborhood where
[32:38] there are at least six immediate
neighbors who have hired lawyers who've
[32:44] come before this board again and again
to object to the noise. It's not just
[32:50] the Marshalss. It's the Chungs across
the street. They hired a lawyer. This
[32:54] was a year ago. This has been going on
for a long time. The problem is either
[32:59] it gets mitigated or you move it. And
the club has plenty of places they can
[33:07] put it. They could put it down near the
golf club and people could play pedal
[33:12] before breakfast and then go in the club
and have breakfast. They could play
[33:16] Fidel in the morning and go in and have
lunch. They could have drinks. They
[33:21] could do whatever they want. years ago,
the club put a paddle court over here
[33:27] with these other tennis courts. There
was strong objection from the neighbors.
[33:32] Objection to the point where a lawsuit
was threatened. The club moved the
[33:37] paddle courts down to where the golf
course is now and where the paddle
[33:41] courts are now. That's a perfectly
appropriate place to put it. It would be
[33:46] out of the jurisdiction of this board
and you could do whatever you wanted.
[34:05] Karen, do you want to say something or
you're just joining the meeting?
[34:09] [laughter]
[34:12] » Uh, I'd like to make a motion to close
the public hearing. So move
[34:17] in favor. I
>> All right. board discussion.
[34:23] Um, so I
was very curious about the sound study
[34:29] that showed in effect um, no difference
in noise level between tennis and pedel
[34:37] uh, which seemed very at odds with what
um, some of folks have said. Uh between
[34:43] the last BZA and this one, I've been
over 15 times uh standing at uh where
[34:48] Antio West Lake Stable and West Lake
Road basically right below the Marchons.
[34:54] Uh and tried to listen for myself to see
what I could hear. Uh on on eight of
[34:59] those occasions, no one was playing
Pedell, so it was a very uh so I could
[35:03] hear people playing tennis, but I
couldn't hear anyone playing Pedell when
[35:06] I when people were playing both pedal
and tennis. And this would be on courts
[35:09] one, two, or three. Uh uh again, it's
not scientific, but I you could tell the
[35:14] difference between the two shots, but
there seemed to be no difference in
[35:17] terms of actual decibb. Uh cars were
much louder, airplanes were much louder,
[35:23] wind was louder. When I was there, when
the music was coming from the pool, the
[35:27] music from the coming from the pool was
much louder. Um, and uh, to me it it
[35:34] uh, it made it that the switch to Patel
seemed to be much less impactful from a
[35:40] noise perspective than what some folks
have claimed. Now, uh, if you had very
[35:46] aggressive tennis players playing, the
sound is louder. Uh, if you have
[35:50] aggressive padell players, the sound is
louder, but I did not see an meaningful
[35:55] difference. Um I also wanted to
understand um based on comments around
[36:01] dust to dawn um what the actual usage of
uh I think u one or both courts were
[36:07] used in the month of June uh slightly
less than average than 3 hours a day.
[36:17] » Are you saying that they were both in
use
[36:19] » one or both? In other words, a sound
would have been coming from them. Okay.
[36:24] Uh,
[36:27] all right. Well, first off, number one,
>> I would like to say something about the
[36:32] noise.
[clears throat] This is from Bath,
[36:36] England. Uh, the Padella courts were
dropped from Bath Sports Ground Plan
[36:42] after Chinese water torture warning.
There is still nowhere to play the sport
[36:47] in Bath. Um, the BA and Northeast
Somerset Council turned down its own
[36:53] planning committee over concern about
the noise of the four planned pedel
[36:58] courts, which one counselor said would
be like Chinese water torture for
[37:02] neighbors.
And they also said uh the planning
[37:08] committee said the gunfire like noise of
the game would harm neighbors mental
[37:12] health and turn the plan down. One
counselor warned that the noise would be
[37:17] close to meeting the World Health
Organization definition
[37:22] of seriously annoying.
That's sort of British. Seriously
[37:27] annoying.
>> Well, first off, I'd like to say that um
[37:30] I'm glad we're not talking about the
lights anymore. All right. Um, and we're
[37:35] talking about a zoning issue and we're
talking about character of the court
[37:40] itself and the noise that the and the
noise and that goes to the character
[37:45] court and we're also talking about the
fences which obviously it seems no one
[37:49] really has a big concern about the
fences themselves. Uh I as uh Campbell I
[37:57] I've observed
multiple times I put myself in the
[38:02] position up on the where where that dirt
road comes in by the marons and when
[38:08] tennis is being played at the court
which is a closer proximity to the
[38:14] marons and pedell is being played the
tennis is noisier than the pedell. All
[38:20] right. And and I've witnessed this three
times. Um, another thing is is that if
[38:26] you go you go online, you put in how far
should a pedel court be from a
[38:32] residential property. Kind of the
criteria is 100 meters. Okay. If you go
[38:37] online, it's 100 meters and the uh
Marons property is 157 m away.
[38:45] » Where's that information from? Um well
they you go online and there it was I
[38:50] » it's from the Podell magazine
>> podell magazine but go on go online go
[38:54] open open my thing open my thing and put
in put in that there it's it's from the
[39:00] United from the Dutch from UK and it's
the 100 meters is is the goal
[39:05] » I'd like to rely more on professionals
who do this for a living that have done
[39:10] research and made models
>> and are advising people with science
[39:14] than all of this conjecture But the one
sound study we have which
[39:19] » did have a monitoring location that was
below the marsh but not that far away
[39:25] » had
>> had had uh uh that there was no
[39:29] difference between tennis and the
>> well decel sound
[39:33] » says that that
interpretation of the data was flawed
[39:40] and constrained to put a different
inclusion together that was in favor.
[39:47] That's what if you read this, you could
easily make that determination.
[39:53] And I would have liked for the two
aciticians. Well, initially
[39:58] I thought it was my understanding and
maybe I'm wrong and I'm glad you're here
[40:01] so we can read what was said before, but
I thought we decided when you were going
[40:07] to go for a vote, Jake, and then you
said, "No, it sounds like everyone is
[40:11] very concerned with the sound. Let's do
a study." Did we not say the the club
[40:17] offered right then and there to do the
study and I think you Elise was like no
[40:22] I think we should perform the study. We
all agreed that we as the independent
[40:28] body here would be performing the study.
I asked if we could be involved in what
[40:34] kind of criter criteria is set to make a
study. All of that was completely
[40:39] ignored. The next thing we see is a
study that was made by the club. Tell me
[40:44] if I'm wrong, but that's how I saw that
meeting go down and the subsequent
[40:49] action. So, you know, I'm glad the
Marons or, you know, their lawyer,
[40:54] whoever advised them to get another and
then now this isn't even being talked
[40:59] about. It's as if there's no other sound
study. It's a critique of a sound study.
[41:04] But that is that is useful information
here
[41:07] » that the sound study made by the club
it looks flawed to another expert in the
[41:14] field. What what am I supposed to think
about that if I've got to make a
[41:19] determination cuz I was gung-ho about a
sound study saying you can mitigate the
[41:24] sound by doing X Y and Z. I was happy to
vote and let everybody be happy about
[41:31] it. That's my goal here still.
But I'm again, you don't have a comment.
[41:38] There's no comment you're going to give
me that's going to satisfy me enough
[41:42] » to feel like this was done
[laughter]
[41:46] completely.
Gosh, I I'm I'm grateful that I didn't
[41:51] hear that. I guess I'll read that later.
Um,
[41:56] » another thing I want to say, having been
on the board of trustees and the BAR and
[42:01] the planning board and spent 20 years
here trying to do my civic duty,
[42:06] I know that the club, despite being an
entity of many people,
[42:13] is an entity of one with regards to how
they are treated on boards.
[42:20] So is a single family residence. It's an
entity of one and it's great that there
[42:26] are supporters of this coming here and
expressing their opinion. It's it's
[42:31] great to hear it. Um
but
[42:36] coming in masses doesn't change the fact
that you are an entity of one
[42:42] and I'm not a member of the club. I've
enjoyed the fact that the club is here
[42:48] and may or may not add vibrancy to the
community. I think nature and peace and
[42:54] quiet adds a value and a vibrancy to the
community.
[42:59] But when members stand up and say
that we're all happy, you're ignoring
[43:05] people that live here that aren't
members of the club. And that's some
[43:09] kind of discrimination. I don't know if
it's civil rights or not, but it's some
[43:12] kind of consideration. I'm not finished,
but I'll remember you raised your hand.
[43:18] Um,
so I'm trying very hard to make the
[43:23] right kind of decision that makes
everybody happy. And I'm not there yet
[43:26] because we don't have all the facts yet.
That's my opinion. And I think if we
[43:31] make and force a vote right now that it
it just doesn't feel like we've turned
[43:37] over every stone to do right by not just
the Marchons, but any neighbor that has
[43:43] a valid complaint. And I believe they do
because it's not been proven that they
[43:47] don't. And I'm not going to gaslight any
resident of Tuxedo Park to say I've
[43:53] stood there and heard it and I don't
think it's noisy. That I don't think
[43:57] that's fair.
[44:00] And may I point out that there are five
immediate neighbors who have complained.
[44:06] In case you've probably heard of these
people, the Hennessies, the Chungs, who
[44:11] came here uh to meetings, the Holams,
Pat Goi, and Guthme, and Chris Hansen
[44:20] even complained about the noise of the
parties at the padel.
[44:26] Now, these are
direct neighbors complaining.
[44:31] » Those complaints were when the lights
were going in. Not. They all complained
[44:36] about they all talked about the noise.
Jay, I'm sorry. They did. I have these
[44:41] letters from them.
>> And yes, they made reference to the
[44:46] fence height. And please someone here
tell me if this is not a correct
[44:51] assumption to make but the variance if
we're only talking about the fence which
[44:56] is a stretch because it is a wall but
the height of it without a variance on
[45:03] the height the pedel court can't exist
and you can't play
[45:08] like so that doesn't that bring into
play the idea that it's undesirable
[45:16] because of the noise, the nuisance of
noise.
[45:20] » Well, is that what we're talking about?
>> Yes. So, your comment about everyone's
[45:25] talking about noise but not talking
about the fence. I they're intertwined.
[45:31] » Well, the two go I mean the variances on
the fence,
[45:35] » but you can't make a decision about the
>> because the character of the court goes
[45:39] to to noise, right? Okay,
[45:45] Mark.
[45:49] Well, for starters, uh, and I read all
the submissions from both parties, uh,
[45:55] and I've lived in the park for 5 years
now, I do not find that the tuxedo club
[46:02] is a nonconforming use. Uh, and even if
it was considered a pre-existing
[46:08] non-conforming use, I don't believe the
replacement of the lawn tennis with
[46:13] Pedell is a material change in the use.
They're both racket sports. Pedell
[46:19] courts were not placed in a different
location on the lot.
[46:24] Uh,
I've had the opportunity on numerous
[46:28] occasions to walk my dogs uh uh by the
Pedell Courts.
[46:34] uh and I did not find uh any difference
uh between the any any noise from uh you
[46:43] know hitting tennis balls versus the
pedel. Um no competing noise study was
[46:50] uh submitted uh other than uh you know
uh to counter the clubs study. I did
[46:58] listen to the video. It was placed on
such a high volume that the bird
[47:03] chirping was hurting my eyes when
hurting my ears when we were listening
[47:07] to it in the room. Uh uh so uh uh I
couldn't give much weight to that uh
[47:14] based on the volume uh that was uh
played uh before the board. Uh we're
[47:22] really here um the BCA has the authority
to consider the height variance. uh and
[47:28] I don't think it's substantial and I
haven't heard anything really uh uh an
[47:33] objection. I think it's it's it's a
standard variance and and I don't uh
[47:38] believe any material changes made. Um, I
did have the opportunity to research
[47:46] uh the different
um case law that was cited. Uh, and I I
[47:52] don't believe um
um that they're pertinent to this
[47:57] situation. Um nonconforming us is the
cases that were cited. uh they're
[48:03] seeking if it's non-conforming and you
make a change to it, they're seeking to
[48:07] get rid of the use and put them back uh
to the original approved use. And I
[48:11] don't think anyone is going to be
sitting here tonight stating that
[48:15] because there is I don't find that there
is a material change. But even if there
[48:20] was a finding of material change, I
don't think that anyone is going to say
[48:24] that the tennis pavilion or the tennis
courts or pedel court should be turned
[48:27] into a residential home. So, um, you
know, if you read the cases that were
[48:32] cited, uh, that was the goal, uh, in
mind and challenging the non-conforming
[48:38] uses. So, I think I I made it pretty
clear,
[48:43] um, you know, my evaluation of the
application
[48:48] uh, before BCA tonight.
[48:53] » Yeah, there's another person in the
audience, Jake, if you want to.
[48:56] » The meeting has been closed. Public
hearing has been closed.
[48:58] » Public hearing has been closed.
>> No, you can't speak.
[49:03] » You can speak, but it will not be
considered part of the record. It's
[49:06] completely up to the chief.
>> No, at this point. Okay.
[49:08] » No, at least they're moving on. Um, you
know, and as I look at it, you know, I
[49:13] know that that Charlotte disagrees, but
you know, the acousta block is a
[49:18] material that will cut decibb down. All
right. Being placed where it's placed.
[49:24] Now, I don't want to get into like let's
put it up. Let's then do a sound study
[49:28] afterwards. Um, you know, I I I I
would like to move forward with this.
[49:36] All right. And I think the I think the
board is is ready to vote.
[49:39] » You would like to what?
>> Move forward. And I think the board is
[49:42] ready to vote.
>> So, not ready to vote, but you are the
[49:46] chairman.
>> Chairman, you need to go through the
[49:47] five factors. Okay. I know a lot of it
has already been discussed, but perhaps
[49:53] for the record, you could
>> Well, that's what we're going to do
[49:55] here.
[49:59] » By the way, um
>> I think you Yeah.
[50:04] » I mean, you know, there have been um
statements that the club was not
[50:10] pre-existing nonconforming because it
wasn't deemed pre-existing
[50:15] non-conforming. That's not an accurate
statement. This probably existed before
[50:20] zoning and there's specific uh code um
100-24
[50:31] that basically says it's grandfathered,
right? Um
[50:37] » the the only way it would not be
grandfathered is if the courts were put
[50:42] somewhere else. And I think I haven't
heard anybody say the courts that the
[50:50] Padel courts were put somewhere else
other than where the tennis court was.
[50:56] Um I think the board needs to also
because there have been comments uh that
[51:01] uh Padell is a change of use. I think
the court needs to decide whether they
[51:07] believe that Padell is a change of use
from tennis. You might want to discuss
[51:12] that.
um as well uh when you're going through
[51:17] this the five factors. Okay.
>> Well, should we move on those
[51:22] beforehand?
>> Um I think that's not a bad idea. So,
[51:27] just to limit the the initial uh
questions, we don't have to talk about
[51:34] pre-existing non-conforming because it's
it's as a matter of law. Uh but there
[51:40] have been allegations that this is a new
use and not a grandfathered use. Uh and
[51:46] I think the board might want to discuss
that and vote on that because that's a
[51:50] threshold issue
in terms of expansion of a
[51:54] non-conforming use.
>> Um
[52:01] I'd like to how you want to move
forward. How is it best to move forward
[52:05] with that as a
>> I would discuss that as right now as an
[52:08] interpretation of the code.
>> I mean clearly a racket sport it you
[52:14] know we have squash, we have tennis, we
have rackets. All right. Um
[52:21] to me it's a it's another racket sport.
So there's not to me there's there's
[52:25] certainly not um a change in use.
>> I I would agree. It's uh in my opinion
[52:34] the replacement of lawn tennis with a
pedal is not a material change in use.
[52:38] Both are racket sports and based on the
fact that pidel courts were not placed
[52:42] in a different location uh I don't think
it should
[52:47] um be an issue.
>> Okay.
[52:52] » I agree.
>> I agree.
[52:55] » Okay. So why don't we take a quick vote
on that? Something we can kind of all
[53:00] agree on. might be a good start. So,
you'll call for a motion that it's not
[53:05] » uh call for a motion that the FedEl is
not a change of abuse. All
[53:11] » in favor move. I
>> I
[53:13] » did. Someone second.
>> Second.
[53:16] » Okay.
>> All right. Great. Now you [laughter] Now
[53:20] you can get into the lowhanging fruit.
>> Exactly.
[53:24] » Now, we should get into the actual
variance itself.
[53:28] » Okay. uh whether an undesirable change
will be reduced in the character of the
[53:33] neighborhood or
a detriment to nearby properties will be
[53:39] created by granting of an area variance.
Now we obviously have a lot of different
[53:46] opinions about this. Um
[53:52] the uh the noise is a character, but you
know like I as I said before you know
[53:59] the the the distance from the bedel
court to the to the marons is 157 m. Uh
[54:11] there are there there are no other homes
that are less than 100 mters. Even the
[54:18] Teddy Wings is is less than slightly
less than 100 meters. Um [clears throat]
[54:24] Delortch are in the same area. Uh the
lights were withdrawn. Um
[54:30] uh the the the height variance on the
fence is not really a significant issue.
[54:38] Um
[54:44] and it and personally observation of the
sound um by myself personally and I know
[54:53] Mark has that same feeling and and so
does Campbell. Uh now I'm sure there uh
[55:00] others that want to chime in on this.
Just the other part of the noise that I
[55:06] was, you know, do the courts cause there
to be more noise other than just the
[55:10] hitting of the racket, right? Is there
more crowd noise? And I think um again,
[55:14] based on my observations, that was not
the case. I think the first month the
[55:19] courts were put up, there was a lot of
buzz and there was a lot more
[55:21] spectating. I think over the past year
uh there uh I believe there's been no
[55:29] more spectator noise or player noise
from Pedell than there is from Long
[55:34] Tennis.
[55:44] Is that character? Who else has
something to say about detriment to the
[55:50] neighborhood?
Um well we've not established to my
[55:56] satisfaction that there is not a noise
issue and so made that clear.
[56:03] Um
there may also be um an issue with
[56:08] regards to a surface. Is the surface of
Pedel different than the tennis court
[56:12] that was there before? The wall is
certainly different than the fence that
[56:18] was there before. I've also already
stated that the height of it is tied to
[56:25] the function of the game. Um, so therein
lies the my objection to the height
[56:32] because we've not gotten to the bottom
of whether this will be acceptable
[56:38] for a sound in the neighborhood. Now,
the the distances that you're talking
[56:42] about, I I wish an someone that was more
expert or that you could cite more
[56:48] expertise behind those um distances, but
distance if you knew enough about
[56:54] acoustical science that has is a factor
but not the only one.
[57:00] Um
so it is a detriment to the
[57:03] neighborhood. So the one entity, the
club, is creating a detriment to six
[57:09] entities that are nearby that object to
the noise.
[57:17] Yes, I agree with that. As I I told you
the names of the people who complained,
[57:22] direct neighbors and some very important
people in the olden days like the
[57:28] Hennessies and the Chungs who came
twice, the whole slams, Pat Gabby and
[57:35] Guth and Chris Hansen. He complained
about the noise of the party. I think
[57:40] mainly parties
at Padel, but that's a lot of people
[57:47] and just because
>> Well, I disagree with you. I think most
[57:49] of those were not on the basis of noise.
They were on the basis of the lights.
[57:53] » No, I don't agree with you.
>> Well, then we we have a different
[57:56] opinion.
>> Oh, okay.
[57:58] » Yeah. I mean, you could go back into the
records and look, but most of them are
[58:01] on the pages that
>> the noise is also
[58:07] something that is of a concern, I would
think, and this is only my personal
[58:12] opinion on the matter, but if there
really is truly a noise nuisance that
[58:18] neighbors feel that have lived here
before Pedell was put in, so those who
[58:24] said that, you know, you you have to
accept that you're going does hear noise
[58:29] from a tennis court
and it's established in lots of
[58:33] conjectural online information but also
an acquisition is saying so that it's
[58:40] different the Marons and these other
complaintants had no idea that their
[58:46] government would let Padell be built so
close to their house and create
[58:50] potentially
material damage to the value of their
[58:54] thousands.
[58:58] » The the only noise study that was
submitted in the application was
[59:02] submitted by the club. Uh I do live
diagonally across the street from the
[59:06] club. Uh, and I did make personal
observations and yes, I I hear the pool
[59:13] and and actually Sunday night when I
come home, uh, I like listening to the,
[59:18] uh, band uh, or the guitarist uh,
playing, but I I purchased a house
[59:22] across the street diagonally from the
club uh, and and the pool and the and
[59:26] the tennis courts. But the only uh,
study that was submitted uh, in this
[59:31] application uh, was submitted by the
club. I do think it's very disrespectful
[59:37] to not read it and understand what the
Marons have presented because they paid
[59:43] for an assessment of the study. The data
is not necessarily wrong. It's lacking,
[59:51] but there's no reason to throw out data
that the the acquistician that the club
[59:56] hired perfectly respectable outfit. I
know them. I know Trinity. I know
[59:59] Sarammy.
um it's just not sufficient to get to
[1:00:04] the root of the problem.
[1:00:10] » All right, moving on. Whether the
benefits sought by the applicant could
[1:00:14] be achieved by some other feasible was
other feasible fragment for the purpose
[1:00:20] other than the area variance. I mean
only if they had put the court someplace
[1:00:25] else. Okay, that would be
>> well they have the luxury of that
[1:00:28] option.
Well, that would be after the fact after
[1:00:31] it was already built. So,
>> we don't know that that matters, does
[1:00:34] it? How does how much does that matter?
>> And it was sort of built in the dark of
[1:00:41] the night.
>> Not really. [laughter] That That's That
[1:00:45] is That is
>> in the middle of the winter with no
[1:00:49] » Come on.
>> With no neighbor,
[1:00:51] » no neighbors were
>> told about this, were they? No,
[1:00:56] » there was no
No notice of neighbors.
[1:01:02] » I mean, no permit, no nothing.
>> That all happened before this came to
[1:01:08] us. Okay. All right. What went on
beforehand really? You know, yet it was
[1:01:14] it was but it it it didn't come to us
until it was already built.
[1:01:20] » Oh, that's true.
>> Okay. Didn't come to us until it was
[1:01:22] already built.
But is that a is that an appropriate
[1:01:27] statement to make that we can't move it
because it's already here?
[1:01:32] » No, of course not.
>> No, it's not.
[1:01:35] » Could not grant the height variance,
>> right? We could not you have that
[1:01:39] authority.
>> We could not grant varian
[1:01:42] closer to
>> right
[1:01:44] » at least being illustrative to the
problem here. uh whether the requested
[1:01:50] area variance are substantial. The
perimeter fence is 6 ft. The old tennis
[1:01:57] fence was 10 ft. The stealth fence at
the high points is 13 ft. So there was a
[1:02:03] 7 foot variance. [snorts] Um but the
there really is only a 30% variance from
[1:02:10] what the height of the old
uh fences were. So I don't you know yes
[1:02:17] it's substantial but I don't think it's
overly substantial where we could not
[1:02:23] grant it.
>> Also the area of the fence around the
[1:02:26] pedel is smaller than the area of the
fence around a tennis court.
[1:02:29] » Right. And just for the just for the
record when they mentioned uh the
[1:02:34] location whether the location of the
court could be placed in a different
[1:02:37] location just for the record I would say
uh it obviously makes sense to have the
[1:02:43] pedel court with the tennis and uh in
the vicinity of the tennis pavilion
[1:02:48] especially since it's placed in the
exact location of a pre-existing court.
[1:02:55] Uh and as far as the height of the
fence, uh as was just stated, it's it's
[1:03:01] it's uh it's a uh minuscule uh you know,
lesser uh you know, there's there's a
[1:03:09] you know, that's what variances are for.
And I don't think the variance is is
[1:03:13] very substantial that is being requested
on this application.
[1:03:20] whether the proposed variance will have
an adverse effect or impact on the
[1:03:24] physical and or environmental conditions
in the neighborhood or district. Um,
[1:03:31] » excuse me. Yes. the the you know the
combined area of the paddle courts is
[1:03:35] smaller than the tennis court and it you
know is it's less on a physical um and
[1:03:42] obviously
uh there you know have been noise
[1:03:46] concerns
um
[1:03:51] excuse me yeah Stephanie Ren mentioned
the bird kills
[1:03:57] the she worries a lot about birds and So
I think that's un an adverse
[1:04:03] environmental effect. And the second one
is uh that whatever the surface and I
[1:04:09] don't know what it is of the pedell
court
[1:04:14] has water running off it much more than
a lawn tennis court and apparently it's
[1:04:20] going into pond three and then the weewa
and it's because of the composition of
[1:04:26] the court floor.
>> Is there evidence of that? Thought I
[1:04:30] would just ask.
>> I' I've not heard any evidence of that.
[1:04:34] » Evidence of that.
>> We was one one of these wonderful pieces
[1:04:38] of paper we got.
>> No one remembers reading that. It's in
[1:04:44] here.
>> Yeah. It was mentioned. I don't know if
[1:04:50] it was by Susman
[1:04:54] about the excess water. I don't doubt if
it would by suspect
[1:05:02] because
>> supplied that information based upon
[1:05:06] experts and we
>> well guess that
[1:05:10] » how thorough is
>> I mean I've never I've never I've never
[1:05:14] seen
>> it's a height variance and whether
[1:05:17] » you know no matter how you
>> but he's going on beyond the height
[1:05:21] variance
>> well the board is rightly considering
[1:05:26] noise impact As far as character
>> using sorry
[1:05:30] » as far as character of the neighborhood
that's perfectly within your purview to
[1:05:34] do that and you should do that and you
did do that right.
[1:05:38] The allegations that there's going to be
storm water runoff and it's going to be
[1:05:45] greater. That has nothing to do with the
the fence height and that is something I
[1:05:51] this goes to the bar right to the bar. I
think that goes to the bar and and and
[1:05:55] you know the bar can deal with that
issue as they should. Um and it's also a
[1:06:00] type two action under seekers. So that's
uh by its very nature considered at for
[1:06:08] this board a height variance is a type
two action. So that under seeker is
[1:06:13] considered not to have a significant
impact on the environment.
[1:06:23] And then
last is is whether the alleged
[1:06:27] difficulty is self-created which
consideration shall be revalent to the
[1:06:31] decision of the board of appeals but
should not necessarily
[1:06:36] uh preclude the granting of the area of
every every one basically is
[1:06:42] self-created. All right.
[1:06:47] Um, I would like like to make a motion
to
[1:06:55] » the final factor here. I just did I
don't mean to interrupt, Mr. chairman,
[1:06:59] but
>> it's clearly self-created
[1:07:04] » and without
consideration even and and how this has
[1:07:10] been presented in this past year I've
been on this board um without a lot of
[1:07:15] respect to the neighbors and I find that
shameful.
[1:07:27] I would like to make a motion
to
[1:07:32] » Do you wish to
[1:07:36] Okay.
>> Yeah.
[1:07:39] » I would like to make a motion to approve
the approve the variance.
[1:07:44] » Motion to approve as discuss mitigation
because he's
[1:07:47] » right. Well, that that is part of it too
and and and with the mitigation
[1:07:55] acoustical [snorts]
uh attenuation that is provided in this
[1:08:00] proposal from acousta block uh which
will be installed on the fence uh
[1:08:10] laterally to the pedel court um and will
make this part of law record.
[1:08:18] » Have you made that motion?
>> I would like to make that motion.
[1:08:22] Second. Second.
>> All approved.
[1:08:26] » I
What about the trees? While you're at
[1:08:30] it, the
>> the trees
[1:08:32] there. There isn't anything substantive
that they're presenting right now with
[1:08:37] the trees. All we have is we have a
commitment from them to review the trees
[1:08:43] and to plant trees in the fall. And will
that will be part of the record that
[1:08:47] there will be tree planting in the
>> condition and have the trees water
[1:08:54] » right that's the most amorphous
condition I've ever heard I don't
[1:08:57] believe it's amorphous at all was made
very clear the number of trees would
[1:09:01] been very clear the number where they
would be very
[1:09:04] » recommended by whom
>> this came tonight
[1:09:07] » without a drawing without any indication
how are you going to make sure that you
[1:09:11] may just finish please without a drawing
without any indication how it's
[1:09:15] » [clears throat]
>> Yeah.
[1:09:16] » Speaker. No, you're done. You're done.
Okay. No, you're done.
[1:09:19] » I have the right to speak also.
>> No. No.
[1:09:22] » Well, Mr. Sesman should not have Nobody
should have spoken.
[1:09:27] » Nobody should have spoken.
>> The meeting isn't closed. The public
[1:09:28] meeting isn't closed. Okay.
>> What kind of
[1:09:31] » We asked him in the regard on the trees.
That's it was it was a specific question
[1:09:36] in regard to the approval.
>> So, there's a second condition as to the
[1:09:40] trees,
>> right? So,
[1:09:43] » well, we we really we don't have a
definitive on the trees. So, we we we
[1:09:48] just really would put in there that that
tree planting will occur in the fall.
[1:09:55] » We we we we could be if we say they
would replace the equivalent number of
[1:09:59] trees that were taken down to to
construct [clears throat] the court. We
[1:10:02] could we could probably
>> No, it has to be many more.
[1:10:07] [laughter]
>> Does not have to be in touch.
[1:10:10] » Yes. to stop the sound. Isn't the idea
>> that that is up to the board if the
[1:10:15] board feels that more trees of a certain
caliber should be planted in addition to
[1:10:21] the ones that were replaced. It's
completely up to the board
[1:10:26] as long as you just don't go overboard.
You know what I'm saying,
[1:10:29] » right?
>> So,
[1:10:31] » to me, it would be reasonable to ask the
club to replace the trees that they took
[1:10:35] down in the construction of the court.
Can that be deferred to the bar who's
[1:10:39] very concerned about trees and tree
placement?
[1:10:41] » Absolutely.
>> Defer it or you could
[1:10:46] » Yes, you could you could defer it or you
could make sure they replace what they
[1:10:50] took down and then the bar has every
right to
[1:10:54] set their own conditions,
>> right? But would they be going to the
[1:10:58] bar?
>> They're going to the bar, right?
[1:11:01] » Yeah, they would have to go to the bar.
They would have to go to the bar because
[1:11:05] of the physical change to the property
regarding the fence at a minimum.
[1:11:08] » Right.
>> Okay.
[1:11:11] » Excuse me.
>> You you may grant a variance for the
[1:11:14] height of the fence. In doing that,
>> the bar would still have the power to
[1:11:18] review that. If you don't grant a
variance for the fence, then the bar
[1:11:23] really has nothing to review. So we can
include the acousta block in the
[1:11:27] proposal and let the bar decide on any
additional landscaping that may be
[1:11:32] required. Yes.
>> And what enforcement mechanism should be
[1:11:36] discussed here?
>> What would be a condition of the
[1:11:39] approval?
>> Right. If they So are you asking if they
[1:11:44] don't put the sound attenuation up
>> if they let the trees die again? Well,
[1:11:49] if you're not going to if you're not
going to make them plant trees, if you
[1:11:53] did, then you would also require
maintenance bond for the trees, right?
[1:11:57] If you don't and allow that to go to the
bar, then the bar can set the conditions
[1:12:02] or the conditions,
>> right? And
[1:12:04] » I would I would let it go to the bar and
let the bar because then they could give
[1:12:07] a drawing to the bar where they're
putting the treats. But excuse me, this
[1:12:11] isn't going to help people like the
Chungs who don't live who live directly
[1:12:17] across from the club, the club itself. I
mean, there are other people who are
[1:12:23] complaining about the noise. You don't
seem to understand that.
[1:12:28] » Well, that should have been here then.
Uh so so we would just have the
[1:12:31] condition of the of the fence
>> of the of the of the
[1:12:35] » I would I would recommend to have uh
evergreen trees uh the number that were
[1:12:42] removed be be placed as a border uh to
be um uh the plan of which would be
[1:12:51] subject you know to bar approval.
>> Okay.
[1:12:54] » All right. So this way at least we're
actually referencing what needs to be
[1:12:58] done that we're saying they need to
replace evergreen trees, the number uh
[1:13:03] along the border that they removed, the
specifics and obviously uh the specifics
[1:13:08] as far as maintaining them and whether a
bond would be required for the
[1:13:12] maintenance we'd leave up to the bar.
>> I wouldn't just I wouldn't specify
[1:13:15] evergreen,
>> right? I would say whatever
[1:13:17] » whatever trees were removed.
>> Yeah.
[1:13:19] » Okay. So
the the tree the second condition would
[1:13:24] be replace the trees that were removed
with evergreen trees.
[1:13:28] » I would not specify evergreen.
>> Okay. With
[1:13:31] » with comparable trees
>> I mean
[1:13:34] » but with an intention of mitigating
>> noise. Yeah.
[1:13:40] » Okay. Replace the trees that were
removed.
[1:13:44] Intend
>> to mitigate.
[1:13:46] » Intention is mitigation. found
>> and um
[1:13:54] uh at progression of BA
>> or maintaining or
[1:14:01] » with a maintenance bond with
>> well that would be the B
[1:14:06] I would
>> as as approved by the B approved by
[1:14:10] » you couldn't require them to seek
acoustical
[1:14:15] acousticians advice to do so or is that
their process? That's
[1:14:19] » that would be their process.
>> That would be their process. Yeah, they
[1:14:22] they would
>> but they so they could if they wanted
[1:14:25] to.
>> Well, I'm not their attorney, but I
[1:14:27] assume that they could. Yep.
[1:14:32] » Okay. So, we had a motion. We had a
second. We had Did we have a vote?
[1:14:37] » Yeah, we did.
>> 32.
[1:14:38] » 32.
[1:14:43] All right. It'll take me a while. a
little while to to to draft this which I
[1:14:48] will then circulate for the board to
review and if I've left anything out
[1:14:56] » okay
we vote on the height
[1:15:01] » yeah granted at a 7 foot variance
correct
[1:15:06] » well a seven foot variance was granted
if that's what you were voting
[1:15:14] » you'd
We did.
[1:15:16] » Yeah.
[1:15:26] » Okay. Oh, okay.
[1:15:38] » I um No, he I was he was here in the
last conversation with Farley.
[1:15:43] » No, he has Right. You were here for the
last conversation with the for?
[1:15:46] » Yeah.
>> Okay. Okay.
[1:15:47] » You don't want me here?
>> No. Okay.
[1:15:50] » I don't want to step in if I'm I'm the
alter.
[1:15:52] » I mean, whatever you think.
>> Here the alternate.
[1:15:54] » Of course, you can stay as the
alternate.
[1:15:56] » Okay.
>> In case I don't know, somebody decides
[1:16:00] I've had enough and quits before they
>> Okay.
[1:16:02] » Which may happen.
>> I can't stand.
[1:16:06] » Are we still on this case or a new case?
>> No, we're on a new case.
[1:16:10] » We're on a new case.
>> Okay. I didn't hear it.
[1:16:14] Okay. Thank you. Give my reporter a
second. She'll wrap up and get out.
[1:16:34] » Yes. To the right hand side.
>> We're not necessarily going to hear.
[1:16:37] » Well, it's all recorded.
>> I understand. But I just don't mind
[1:16:41] taking
[1:16:45] You can you can request a copy.
You can request a copy.
[1:16:49] » Okay, perfect. I'll do that
>> because the minutes are not
[1:16:57] detail.
>> Oh my gosh, I'm dying. Okay.
[1:17:09] » Yeah, we we we had opened and closed the
public meeting on part of the
[1:17:14] recollection.
>> I don't think we closed the public
[1:17:16] hearing because they were submitting new
plans.
[1:17:19] » Correct.
>> We adjourned
[1:17:22] recalculate because we submitting new
plans.
[1:17:25] » Yeah. The uh the area the variance
regarding the
[1:17:29] » right they're probably with new
and they no longer require a vantage
[1:17:35] proper fashion.
[1:17:39] Um,
okay. Number two, Farley Richard and
[1:17:45] Shelley for Bridge Road, Tuxedo Park,
tax map number 106-1-44,
[1:17:54] seeking relief from the following
sections of the village tuxedo park
[1:17:58] zoning code. Village code 100-8
lot area where lot size is 66 acre. The
[1:18:07] minimum lot village laws 1 acre village
code 100-8 front yard setback for road
[1:18:16] where 19 foot setback is proposed and 75
is required. Village code
[1:18:23] sideyard setback
where 34 is proposed 50 is required.
[1:18:29] Village code 108.8 sideyard school
43 is proposed fixing required
[1:18:38] 11 box
25% is maximum permitting and 30%
[1:18:45] proposed I think I think that this was
part of the right
[1:18:49] » of what was put in the papers original
and that's based on the original thing
[1:18:53] and that a couple of these have changed.
>> Yes. Did you change them again this
[1:18:59] week?
>> We changed them and we resubmitted, but
[1:19:02] it's for the better
>> as as a result of the um
[1:19:06] » the the the last documents you sent us
though, it has not changed since those.
[1:19:10] » It's changed slightly because while um
was reflexing the plans for the
[1:19:16] architectural plans for the VA, the side
porch became reduced in size. So, we're
[1:19:22] requiring less of a sideyard variance
and that's the only change from the
[1:19:27] previous
set of plans. What are you requesting?
[1:19:32] » 14 ft 6 in.
>> 14 ft 6 in.
[1:19:35] » Correct.
>> So, do you have a new letter or
[1:19:38] » I had a new letter um and we submitted
it to John and also as yet
[1:19:44] » and I
>> Yeah, the one I have is June 19th.
[1:19:46] » This is a full new packet. Oh, a full
new packet. Okay. I got three packets. I
[1:19:51] know it's just really it's just that
simple change.
[1:19:54] » Okay.
>> Um but and here's here's that the latest
[1:19:58] letter.
>> Okay.
[1:20:03] So, and the as a result of refining the
drawings for the barbs, we decided to
[1:20:09] make do a few ch adjustments. Um we um
changed the pool to a more narrow pool.
[1:20:17] Instead of um 16x32,
it's now at 12x30. We added a circular
[1:20:23] hot tub here. Um it's pulled in from the
sideyard u a bit, so we require less of
[1:20:29] variance. It's only um about three or
four feet over the the sideyard um
[1:20:35] setback line. Um we also reduced the
side parking court back here and just
[1:20:40] made
>> Yeah. No, actually that made a lot of
[1:20:42] sense.
>> Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And it
[1:20:43] and and um and
it still serves the the right per
[1:20:50] what she wants to accomplish. Um we also
did uh we submitted the planting plan in
[1:20:56] this latest package that we submitted to
the bar. Um it's everything was more
[1:21:01] refined in the last few weeks um to get
ready for the bar and uh
[1:21:08] this plan. This is all
for the
[1:21:14] » for the house below. This is all an
existing wooden area. We are just taking
[1:21:19] out a few trees for construction. Um
saving most of the um other trees there.
[1:21:25] This is an extensive um maxi rodendren
um row but and it's all eaten up by the
[1:21:31] deer. But the fence we're putting in is
a six foot high that invisible fence
[1:21:36] that helps keep the deer out. So maybe
that's going to go down lower, but for
[1:21:40] screening purposes, it's great because
they don't need screening down below.
[1:21:44] They need it up a little higher. And it
does provide a bit of screening. Um,
[1:21:49] so the big change in in the side um
porch, we used to have the side porch go
[1:21:54] like this, but um Kevin went out and
measured all the windows and found that
[1:21:59] um instead of high uh covering over a
window, we he shortened the uh the porch
[1:22:06] and um it's only 146.
And then we just moved the steps a
[1:22:10] little.
>> You don't mind? We should have covered
[1:22:12] two of the speakers. Um
>> Oh, I'm sorry.
[1:22:16] » Thank you.
Okay.
[1:22:22] » Gotcha.
So, um Oh, both of them worked
[1:22:29] and uh we I think that's about it on the
changes, but like I said, we got more
[1:22:37] refined um on the on the planting and
and everything and the pool became much
[1:22:42] much more elegant. Just out of
curiosity, why are these two trees
[1:22:47] coming down? I can see this because
there's a fence. Why would these come
[1:22:50] down?
>> Um, Shell doesn't like them.
[1:22:53] » What?
>> Shell doesn't like them. They're a
[1:22:55] little scraw very scrawny.
>> They're scrawny.
[1:22:57] » They're scrawny white pines.
>> Okay.
[1:23:00] » So, they are really like like Charlie
Brown trees. I would use one for my
[1:23:05] Christmas tree because I like that kind
of tree. But, um, but she, you know, she
[1:23:10] likes it more more perfect. Like these
are all emerald green. um our vetes more
[1:23:15] formal landscape using native plants
which I know that barley
[1:23:20] » yeah know the only my only you know
somewhat a concern is is that you know
[1:23:24] there are trees being cut down from your
the closest neighbor whoever that
[1:23:29] closest neighbor is
>> makes you know
[1:23:31] » oh then I don't care
[laughter]
[1:23:34] » there are still some trees that we
didn't show in here sap a lot of
[1:23:37] saplings this is more of a wooded area I
know this is more of a wooded area than
[1:23:42] uh It's a pretty wooded area. Yeah, it
is pretty quite steep.
[1:23:46] » It's very steep. Right. Correct. So,
they basically see this slope. Actually,
[1:23:50] some of it they have their horn on it a
little bit about right here.
[1:23:54] » But, um,
>> what's the bump out on a porticochet in
[1:23:58] the top?
>> Right here.
[1:23:59] » Yeah.
>> So, that
[1:24:09] that's a that's a circular
[1:24:13] the half turret
[1:24:17] half turret that's on the study and that
projects up two stories. This would be
[1:24:22] one story. Um let me show you what that
looks like on the ocean.
[1:24:28] » So from the side view it's it's
basically just a conical um roof to
[1:24:35] complement the conical roof. Oh, so it's
kind of reverse perpendicular to the
[1:24:39] house and this one
chair just to kind of when you're coming
[1:24:44] around the corner here softness and
>> what's that?
[1:24:47] » Are you going to see it?
>> I can see it from my property, but
[1:24:50] » this gives it a lot of interest.
>> We talked about removing it, but it just
[1:24:56] doesn't
>> I agree.
[1:24:59] » And then on the on the front of the
house front, if you're
[1:25:02] » Yeah. No, I mean the the front is, you
know, right currently it's a front
[1:25:07] that's kind of that's nothing.
>> Yeah, it's
[1:25:09] » Well, there is there was a porch here
that was ripped off the house. I think a
[1:25:14] lot of, you know, just in in the course
of measuring, there was a lot of windows
[1:25:17] were replaced with, you know, um,
especially the rear here, the kitchen.
[1:25:22] » But you walk into that house, the
outside does not match the inside. It's
[1:25:26] gorgeous.
at the end. This this helps make the
[1:25:31] outside complicated
[1:25:38] stuff through architecture. I think we
saw this last week. There's a new um
[1:25:43] covered porch there. Right now there's a
a 4ft 4 inch by um 11 foot overhang
[1:25:50] that's just can't delivered out into
space.
[1:26:05] here. So, it's this this just can't
believe is out over nothing, which
[1:26:09] really from an architectural standpoint,
it's not really proper, right? I mean,
[1:26:12] it should be anchored. So, I put a
couple of um square um chamfered
[1:26:17] columns, which would be just 8 by8 wood
post painted the same as the 8 8 in half
[1:26:24] timbering on the house. Um and then that
would go down to a um a wooden porch
[1:26:32] lattice underneath, but it's there.
Yeah. Backyard.
[1:26:37] » Jetty bays like that are very common to
this style of architecture.
[1:26:41] That would then mean you wouldn't need a
column. You
[1:26:45] » That's not our purview. You may hear
that at the BART.
[1:26:49] » Well, I mean, you could obviously can't
deliver out. That's a big can deliver
[1:26:54] with no support underneath for a
traditional house, right? Modern houses,
[1:26:57] you see it a lot.
>> I mean, maybe in tuxedo park, you do see
[1:27:02] it. I'm not saying it's I'm not saying
that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I
[1:27:06] think the, you know, architecture that
the anchoring of the column helps going
[1:27:11] to tell you that
>> notes for your next review. [laughter]
[1:27:14] » Well, fortunately we don't we don't have
to apply enough
[1:27:18] » trying to be
>> Thank you though.
[1:27:20] » You're welcome.
Um, also speaking of the BAR, I did ask
[1:27:26] John to send me the some the audio of a
meeting and then spoke to another bar
[1:27:32] meet um member Christopher Gal this
afternoon about what was already said
[1:27:39] about this property. They were specific
in their second um review of this that
[1:27:47] they were concerned about the size of
the porcare and were willing to consider
[1:27:53] it in with the understanding of the
owner's
[1:27:59] requirements that aren't necessarily
something they're obliged to accommodate
[1:28:04] but that they wanted the port kosher to
be minimal. So that's another thing
[1:28:08] coming your way that may or may not be
applicable to how we review this. I
[1:28:12] don't know. But it is something that
they're looking at.
[1:28:19] And I, you know, as much as this helps
architecturally, aesthetically, this
[1:28:25] might be challenged there, it might be
challenged here, too. If we're looking
[1:28:29] at it and thinking we would want to um
offer a minimal variance on that
[1:28:35] » setback. Yeah.
>> Then in reference to the two cars versus
[1:28:40] one car or
>> um I think they were happy to
[1:28:46] accommodate the two cars.
>> Um I personally as an architect I would
[1:28:52] be pressing back that it could be a
different shape to accommodate two cars,
[1:28:55] but again that's not my board. Um but
they did talk about this and I thought
[1:29:01] in the tape that she might have been
willing to give that up. I could be
[1:29:06] misremembering it.
>> Yeah. I mean, I think visually without
[1:29:08] it, it's just going to look like a big
um you know, square box like you would
[1:29:13] see at a catering hall uh entry, which I
think you know that that
[1:29:18] » I mean, in my opinion,
>> square box,
[1:29:20] » train station has a square box,
but this a lot of time. She really likes
[1:29:26] this, but that would
>> I mean that there's not a variance
[1:29:30] required for for us. It just makes the
set back a little bit more. It's not
[1:29:36] much more, but it's four or five feet
more
[1:29:39] » cuz the setback goes, you know, the
other drawing the other.
[1:29:45] » Yes. Yes, that's you're right. You know,
your drawing better than I do.
[1:29:52] » Yes. So, we're talking here.
>> Oh, that's correct. You are.
[1:29:55] » So, it doesn't This does not really make
>> change the doesn't change doesn't make
[1:30:05] but as an overall area and
[1:30:11] define minimal
[1:30:16] » minimal to make it look good.
>> Um that's subjective though. It is
[1:30:22] subjective but
>> but if we grant that variance they
[1:30:25] certainly could go under that
>> if
[1:30:28] » right
>> yes thank you
[1:30:34] » yeah I think yeah the the problem really
is the depth from the house and the
[1:30:38] clearance for two vehicles between the
columns and being able to exit the
[1:30:42] vehicles um right now they're going to
look like
[1:30:46] » bar number two
>> exit and get out of it 19 19 ft column
[1:30:54] to column inside.
>> It'll work, you know. Anyhow, I think
[1:30:59] what if they position the door with the
doors would be positioned between the
[1:31:02] columns. So, I don't see any reason why
that would be
[1:31:05] » Yeah. parking spot
>> difficult. They're going to have to be
[1:31:07] very careful even negotiating that,
right? Because of the the clearance to
[1:31:11] the columns that have two cars next to
two large vehicles next to each other.
[1:31:15] [clears throat]
>> They have they both have large. I think
[1:31:17] maybe in this direction it could be, you
know, maybe squeezed in a little bit,
[1:31:20] but then it starts to affect the
architecture front as well.
[1:31:25] » And there are limitations. We couldn't
go any closer to the house because this
[1:31:29] is an old coal she coal cellar. So we
make as part of the project, we're going
[1:31:34] to make a green roof um
but this is a roof right now with a coal
[1:31:40] storage
>> something under there. It's a coal
[1:31:42] storage room. That's what used to be.
>> Okay.
[1:31:46] » Good. eliminate that.
>> I They don't want to change the history
[1:31:49] of the house.
>> It's underground.
[1:31:52] » Yeah. It's just it's a nice history. Why
Why wreck it?
[1:31:57] » What What is What's the issue with that?
You can't see it.
[1:31:59] » You can't share.
>> Yeah. What's the thumb with that? Oh,
[1:32:02] you mean to tuck a Chipole in closer to
the house
[1:32:05] » and then that tree would have to
>> That tree would have to
[1:32:09] move here, right? No joker. Go back to
>> driver.
[1:32:16] So these are very subjective comments
and um I don't
[1:32:22] » I don't think that
>> I I don't I don't know. I
[1:32:27] » Yeah, I'm not sure that's our
>> to just to something a couple feet
[1:32:31] doesn't make to me doesn't make sense to
>> I mean as far Yes. As far as for this
[1:32:36] board goes, if we approve the variances
and and you and it and you shrink that
[1:32:41] fine doesn't difference. Okay.
>> And we did we worked hard to minimize
[1:32:47] everything. We took patio out here. We
like totally
[1:32:51] » right. Well, I like this too instead of
this.
[1:32:54] But even though that wasn't part of your
purview either because we weren't we
[1:32:58] were within setbacks, it just made a lot
more sense
[1:33:01] » and it made it more cost effective.
Um so the variances are at the full
[1:33:08] bunch of small active sideyard varants
and then this front yard variance.
[1:33:14] » Yes.
>> And then there's a lot of
[1:33:16] non-conforming.
>> Yeah.
[1:33:20] » So in the past we it was required to ask
for variances for all the
[1:33:25] non-conforming. The whole house is now
>> is that typical?
[1:33:30] Um I think our own council has advised
us to at least acknowledge the
[1:33:34] nonformance.
>> Right.
[1:33:36] » Even though it's not being any
>> but we're not approving the existing.
[1:33:40] » No, you're just acknowledging there is
some existing non-conformance. It's not
[1:33:43] being made any more non.
>> Right. Right. Okay.
[1:33:49] » And that should be evidence in the site
plan table.
[1:33:51] » It is.
[clears throat]
[1:33:56] » What about the imperous surfaces? We
>> we took out the gravel and um we also
[1:34:01] reduced the number the surfaces. We
>> came under it's not it's not a bar
[1:34:09] request anymore.
>> Even though the house is so big on the
[1:34:12] lot, we're still under.
>> So you're down to three variances,
[1:34:16] right? Just three.
>> Let me just double check. I believe it
[1:34:21] is
front yard set. the front yard set step
[1:34:26] set step set step set step set step set
[1:34:26] step set step set step set step set step
setback the side yard side yard set back
[1:34:30] » which is
>> oh no we also have I think I believe oh
[1:34:34] that's non-conforming
okay lock coverage no not lock coverage
[1:34:39] that was changed I'm sorry and um the
sideyard side be
[1:34:50] » not covered just Let's review something.
>> Yeah, it's we have it. We have it um
[1:34:56] cloud that was changing
[1:35:04] well in the last one that I'm citing um
regarding building on a lot under a
[1:35:09] certain size.
>> Yes.
[1:35:10] » Right.
>> But this is under
[1:35:13] everything about this property
>> because it's a less than a oneacre lot.
[1:35:17] » Yeah.
Apparently the allowance in this area is
[1:35:20] 75 of an acre and our existing condition
is 65 66
[1:35:26] » is not being made any more
non-conformant. I just cited it because
[1:35:29] it's in the code.
>> It's an existing condition.
[1:35:34] » No, I mean I visited the site and it's a
problematic site now. I think this will
[1:35:39] improve
the entire area substantially.
[1:35:43] » Thank you.
That's her object objective.
[1:35:48] » Um, we still we are still meeting is
open to the public right now. Still
[1:35:53] » um,
>> are you done?
[1:35:58] » Yes.
>> Is there anyone from the public who
[1:36:00] would like to speak at this point?
I think people are just hanging on from
[1:36:05] the old meeting.
>> Christopher G probably listen to the
[1:36:09] » Chris. Do you have anything?
>> Maybe not.
[1:36:11] » No one has their hands up,
>> right? Peter lives across the street to
[1:36:16] sleep
>> watching the uh soccer game. [laughter]
[1:36:20] All right.
[1:36:24] » Nothing. Nothing.
>> Yeah. No. No public interest.
[1:36:27] » All right. Uh there's no public hearing.
I'd like to make a motion to close the
[1:36:31] public hearing.
>> So moved. All in
[1:36:32] » favor? I
[1:36:39] Okay. um
board discussion
[1:36:47] actors.
>> As I say, I I applaud I think it's a
[1:36:51] it's a problematic site. Obviously, we
want to do anything to it. They're going
[1:36:55] to have to ask for some kind of a
variance and what they proposed is very
[1:36:59] reasonable. Proves the character.
>> Are we going to vote variance by
[1:37:05] variance?
>> No.
[1:37:06] » No. We'll vote. We'll vote. We'll vote
the the best print dated
[1:37:11] » this date. What's the revision on that
plan?
[1:37:14] » 62526.
[1:37:18] » Should we support
the bars
[1:37:22] coming and already expressed opinion
about port being minimal or this just
[1:37:28] the facts, ma'am, and it's the number?
>> That's the bars provided.
[1:37:34] So it doesn't add anything that we said
>> deferring to the bar.
[1:37:40] » I'm sure you would. Well, no. I would
not suggest doing that. They're an
[1:37:45] independent board just like you are.
>> Yeah. So far anyway,
[1:37:56] » um
the board ready to vote. Do you want to
[1:38:00] just real quick go through the five
factors here?
[1:38:06] I've heard character of the neighborhood
so far problematic site will need a
[1:38:10] variance to do anything which kind of
goes to all of the factors really
[1:38:15] substantiality etc
>> right but it certainly does not change
[1:38:20] it's not an undesirable
>> not produce an undesirable
[1:38:24] » narrowing the cochair that's a
non-starter it's
[1:38:28] » not our purview really to get that
specific we're either going to let them
[1:38:31] have that distance or not
>> narrowing the port share
[1:38:35] » to one car is going to be able to opine
on how the how it is designed. We're
[1:38:40] just going to allow it to allow a
variance if the bar
[1:38:45] » but if and [clears throat] narrowing it
does not reduce the variance based on
[1:38:50] the drawings,
>> right?
[1:38:53] » Potentially could but that's for the bar
as well because they have a right to go
[1:38:58] more strict than the variance we're
granting them.
[1:39:03] science standpoint,
>> right? They they can't go past the
[1:39:05] variance. They can they can go less than
the variance obviously.
[1:39:08] » So they've got a lot of room to
>> do their job.
[1:39:16] » Um and um
could it be achieved by another method
[1:39:22] other than the variance? Um
of course. Okay.
[1:39:28] » It would probably just require a
different variant. It would just require
[1:39:31] a different variant because it's not
there or not. Um,
[1:39:35] » is the requested variant substantial?
>> Uh, I would not consider it substantial
[1:39:43] on a percentage basis.
>> Yeah. Anyone else? Great.
[1:39:50] » Um, whether proposed variance will have
an adverse effect or impact on the
[1:39:55] physical or environmental conditions in
the neighborhood of the district. um
[1:40:01] you know, cutting down a few more trees,
but you know, I would have to say that
[1:40:05] it it's minimal. All right. And you're
putting a lot of trees back in.
[1:40:09] » You're going to plant more.
>> You're going to plant more than it's
[1:40:12] coming out,
>> particularly down towards
[1:40:14] » Well, that's cuz Karen likes to put
plants.
[1:40:17] » She likes plants.
>> Um and whether the ledge difficulty is
[1:40:22] self-created. All right. which
considerations shall be relevant to the
[1:40:27] decision of this board but that shall
not necessarily preclude the granting of
[1:40:32] the area variance.
Um
[1:40:36] I personally am comfortable with
anything and I'd like to make a motion
[1:40:39] to approve the application per that
dated print. Um what's the date?
[1:40:45] » 625 2026.
[1:40:50] » So move second. All in favor?
>> I
[1:40:54] » Thank you very
[1:41:16] » We don't have minutes.
But Desire, you sent us the minutes.
[1:41:22] » Yep. I sent them
>> that we already approved.
[1:41:26] » Uh the June 3rd one.
>> Not
[1:41:29] » the June 3rd. Can you hear me?
>> No, that's what we didn't get. We didn't
[1:41:32] get the June 3rd meeting. We got We got
an older one. We got one that was
[1:41:36] lethitises.
>> Oh, cuz I sent
[1:41:40] » what
>> it was. What we got was Lepitis and we
[1:41:44] already had approved that.
>> Oh, okay. Gee, I thought I sent
[1:41:47] » No problem. We had enough things to do
today.
[1:41:51] » All right.
>> I know I sent it to John.
[1:41:53] » Thank you very much everyone. We'll pick
it up.
[1:41:55] » Good to see you again.
>> You too.
[1:41:58] » We're
doing the HVAC engineer cooler outside
[1:42:06] day [clears throat] people.