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All right. We will go ahead and call community the hold order and first move to approve the minutes of the October 13th meeting without some

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Saturday of a reading. Okay. Motions been made and seconded. Any discussion? Hearing none. All those in favor? Aye. And that motion passes. Okay. So our main item on the docket tonight. Welcome. Is the communication for me about updating about the city hall, space,

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And just to give us a little refresher on that, so this has been a sort of ongoing discussion.

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We know at the sort of around this time, December, last year, the Maronite did a communication

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about the space study and acknowledging the challenges of the space issues.

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Here at City Hall, particularly as it relates to the police department and particularly the

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female police locker rooms but generally the police department and then we've

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been through a few different explorations where we are now is since we had the

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recommendation from the administration to purchase the one-road building as we

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were considering that potential possibility we also wanted to do all the due

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diligence on the various possible options as well as the potential costs and

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in benefits of doing that worn road purchase and rehabilitation.

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So since that time, Vice President Baker,

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Councilman Evans and myself have formed a working group working with the planning department

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and the administration to go through some of the questions that council members had been asking

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in terms of what are the possible options to solve the space issues,

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use, how much would each option potentially cost?

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What are the operational and customer service pros and cons of each?

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So as we've worked through that, I sort of narrowed those down into essentially three options,

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of course, there are many more options than that, but just to have a digestible conversation

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and kind of get our heads around this issue, we sort of centered around three specific options.

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So, how could an addition be built onto the current city hall of sufficient size to

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address the space issues and how much would that cost?

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How much would it cost to fully get and renovate the Warren Road Building in retrofit the

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current city hall into a justice center?

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And then some of the other questions, we also had the option of doing the small addition

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which was originally presented as an option as well that would just specifically address

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some of the police issues but not a lot of the other issues.

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And then some of the other questions we had were how do the city hall improvements previously

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laid out in the five year capital plan, for example, the window replacements fit into

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the overall budget and timing of the proposed project options and what are the ongoing operational

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costs and the customer service and efficiency pros and cons of each.

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So, since that time, we've been working with our consultants from Webber Murphy Fox.

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We're joined by David Thal from Webber Murphy Fox tonight, as well as our PMC consultants.

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So, we have Chris Penicci, thank you, and Ken Collins-Juck.

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We've wrote familiar with Ken, of course, from PMC.

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Here to kind of help us through some of those explorations.

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They've prepared a presentation to walk us through each of those.

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So before I jump over to them, Vice President Baker or Councilman Evans, do you have anything

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to add that I've left out there?

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Thank you, President Keppell.

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The only thing I'd add is that, you know, as we talked about earlier when, you know, the

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share priorities of space, the all-finding, extra space for the police department to meet

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the modern 21st century policing, but these, I want to caution folks as we go through

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these and I'm sure our consultants will help reiterate this point.

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This is not like, this is what a detailed cost would be.

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These are scale costs so that we understand kind of like orders of magnitude if we pick

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one route what it likely might be, but there's not a lot of detail on the bone to then provide

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that estimate.

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So it's very conceptual.

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I'm sure they will say that, but I just want to share with my colleagues in the public that

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But it is very conceptual.

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Thank you.

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That's a good point.

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We're just trying to get to the point where we had sort of Apple

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Staples comparisons of the three options.

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So all kind of at the same high-level conceptual.

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And we'll probably say those words repeatedly tonight.

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Okay.

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Any other comments?

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No for colleagues?

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All right.

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So I'll turn it over to Chris and David.

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You push the button, it should turn red, and then we should hear you. Okay, there we go. Perfect. It's a faint red. So good evening, everyone. My name is Chris Peneke. I am with PMC. I just wanted to do a quick introduction and then kind of give a little background on myself. I've been with PMC of almost a year and a half now, a little more part of that. I ran the cap work at Case Western Reserve University for about 10 years. So I have a lot of capital work experience from brand new buildings to a lot of existing buildings on campus. And then part of that I

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I was in practice for 20.

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So, worked on a lot of higher education as well as K-12 and government work.

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So, the first thing we want to do is go through the plans.

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Dave is going to take us through those tonight.

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Then we're going to talk a little bit about these conceptual project estimates and how we

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develop them.

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Karen's going to work us through some of the finance, the key tax pieces and then we're going

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to wrap it all up.

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So, that's kind of our agenda tonight.

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And with that, David, right.

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Great. Thank you. Thanks for having us tonight. Should we switch to the next slide? Okay, great.

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So I'm going to, yes, Chris mentioned just doing an overview of the three options are being

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presented today. And option one is where we started was we looked at every department in the

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building. In fact, it was called a space utilization study. We walked all 70,000 square feet

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of the city, documented it, to then be able to provide digital plans to then work from.

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Worked with all the department heads to look at the needs, the desires, and

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to see where we might be able to be more effective within the space of the building.

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And so that's where this came about.

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And while it has all the departments in their associated color blocking forms,

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There are some limitations in terms of growth.

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We did add a very small addition that would be to the east and that's on the rear side

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there that you use that little rectangle that comes out it basically fills what's existing

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parking along the east side there.

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And that then helped with some of the police departments locker room reconfigurations and allowing

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for a little bit more expansive on one of the floors for more office space and then possible

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more meeting room space up here.

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And that's where we landed here.

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We were asked to look at another scheme, which if we go to the next slide.

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This option begins to look at a much larger addition, an addition that would bring the police

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department to a square footage that made sense for expansion and growth, and I believe

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there's one other slide for option, there we go.

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And then all the other departments, this plan is showing the second floor where planning

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and development and building and housing which are down on the lower level would come up

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to the second floor, and then the police would then grow into the addition on the other

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two floors. So that's this was option two with the large addition that this is towards

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the east but it's on the front of the building and it's not quite a zero lot line. It pretty

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much terminated just before the tree line.

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This option three to do the what was mentioned

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in apples to apples comparison was also to look at the departments of that would be relocated

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as proposed to go into the Warnrobe building, doing a blocking diagram similar to some of the other schemes here in this building.

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And this is just, again, high level.

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The departments might go here, they might be in other areas, but really it was about looking at the floor plates,

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what exists, what might work within the existing building renovation.

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and where a possible new addition might need to be added in order to really fit all the

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program and the modern needs of accessibility. So, elevator, scare, and some other programs.

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And I believe the next slide, this shows the areas that are not in color are the areas of the departments that are proposed to move to

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And then these are the areas in which the police department would grow into.

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And in one of our former studies where we showed how the police department would

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would grow into this, was one of the schemes.

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It's not this, but it basically takes the area that aren't not covered.

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So what you're seeing in front of you are three conceptual project estimates. So it's a project estimate includes construction cost as well as all the soft cost. So anything that would involve from that project, soup to nuts, but they are very high level. This is a parametric at best so it could swing 10 to 15% depending on scope, as well as market conditions. So we're really going to keep saying that tonight.

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So people are reiterating that.

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So the first, and they're also based on a mixture of three things.

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Webber Murphy Fox, and they have in house structure management group.

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So they provided the construction cost estimate.

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Then we layered in PMC, we layered in soft cost of pieces.

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And then there's this third bucket, including city projects that were ongoing or ones that were planned.

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So that's what you're going to see here.

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And I'll go through the first option one and then you'll see how it works with option two and three so option one

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Renovating city hall with a small annex addition or small addition in an annex renovation about 12.8 million for hard construction costs

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Any services if they are around 10% would be about 1.2 million

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FF any one you describe what any services mean forever. Oh, sorry. Sorry. Yes. The public's you're right. You're right

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Sorry, Councilor Smith, thank you.

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So any sort of architectural engineering surfaces,

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those are at so with anything that would be required to facilitate the design for the building.

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So all your mechanical, your electrical, your plumbing, your technology.

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Those are in close-up structure, so that's what David works on.

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So that's what any service is.

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So FFNE is your furniture, fixtures in your equipment.

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If you're taking the building, drop, shake it down and everything that falls out of it, that's a good way to say

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what FF&E is, depending if you get new furniture, you some of the existing that number could change a bit, but it was estimated at

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1.4 million by your team. And then the next one is really, it's one of those ones that people don't want to admit. It's needed, it's a construction, owner construction

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contingency. And what are these four? These are for the unknowns. Sometimes there's the only of the own unknowns, but these are

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It's truly the unknowns.

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It's not behind the walls.

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You can't see the stuff that the contractor's not going to be responsible for that hits projects.

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And having worked on so many projects and in old buildings, you're always going to find something.

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So really, you want to preserve money in your budget for when those things happen.

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And of course, there's always those things you forget about.

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As you're going through the course of design, you might find out after when you're construction.

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I really like to do this, and we're in here right now, or someone changes in administration.

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Things always happen, it always happens, it comes up.

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So that's what the owner's contingencies for.

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There are other contingencies that are baked into the construction cost.

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There's design and bidding contingencies, there's escalation contingencies.

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Those are all lumped up right now in the $12.8 million, which David's firm has accounted for.

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Again, very high level.

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And then the next item would be additional soft costs, things that, again, people don't think about moving, utilities, legal work, technology.

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You can see there's a lot of robust technology in here to have this stuff either transferred or bought new, would be a lot of money.

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Testing, you have to test if it's a new building, you're testing all your structure, you're testing your foundations.

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Insurance, you're going to carry your own insurance builders risk, or you're going to put it on the contractor.

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sector, all those things you have to think through. That could be a lot of money. Sometimes

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you'll have, in this case, you're a city group, maybe you have to pay for permits, maybe

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you won't, maybe you'll, if there's no networks. You want to charge yourself? I've seen, I've

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seen cities do that. So, I mean, that's all part of the project cost, right? Then it gets

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down to there's three, we identify that we know about, there's probably a fourth one that

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I'm not sure the boilers were that sets,

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but one is the elevator project.

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That was estimated at a million dollars.

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The wayfinding project was 170,000.

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And then the window replacement,

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which we bumped up a little bit,

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it was less than, it was like 2.5.

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I think we put it at 2.7 million

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because I think it was a few years ago.

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So your window replacement for the whole facility

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amies our original windows.

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So we came up with a grand total for this option one

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at 21.4 million, and that does not include renovation to the existing jail or supports

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bases. That wasn't part of this, so I just want to make sure that that's known when

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you're putting your net still out there that hasn't was not put in this cost figure. Any

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questions on one, or are you going to go through all three of them, and then are there any

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questions?

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I just had a question on the the owner's contingency.

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Did you use us?

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Is it a similar percentage for each of these? How does that question? It's a great question. In a renovation of this nature, old buildings, we like to carry at least 10%. It could even get greater. It may sound like it's inverse, but the less you're doing, the more unknown you're getting into. So if I were taking a building down, and I would do a gut renovation, and it bound the structure, you still would need some, but it's like, you can pry back that down a little bit.

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because you're removing all your, all your unknowns,

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depending on how, at what point in time

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you, you put that into the, let's say it,

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you had to gut it before you entered the contract,

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but 10% is usually what we hold for these type of things.

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I mean, again, I don't want to get into in-depth on it,

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but you could definitely spend it.

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Dave, sorry.

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That's a little number, Stephen.

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Thank you. I'm just I'm a little confused at the numbers here because it's not quite matching up. So I see the construction cost and that's 12.8.

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The A and E service is 1.2.

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F F E is 1.4. The owner can tangency and then it goes on with that next phrase in parentheses is that the 1.2 and then the other soft cost or is that all part of one thing there?

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and then does the legal technology testing match up with 642?

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Can you explain which?

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These are all separate numbers.

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I think the math would be correct.

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Oh, you're not seeing the line.

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There should be a line between owner's contingency and other soft cost.

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Okay, so other soft cost is where that's 642.

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Is that right?

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Yes, correct.

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Correct.

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Other soft costs, moving utilities, legal technology, testing insurance, AV and art,

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end of parenthesis, maybe there, should be to explain that phrase, thank you.

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So then that is the 642.

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Correct.

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Thank you very much.

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Other Council members, questions before we go on?

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Members of the administration?

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No.

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Okay.

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Take it away.

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Okay.

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Okay, so option number two is a renovation of City Hall with a larger addition.

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So you're renovating 53.9,000 square feet with light to moderate renovation.

216
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I think as David alluded to that would be you're not completely gutting it.

217
00:17:41,150 --> 00:17:45,350
You're doing finishes in certain areas, maybe ceilings, maybe lighting, some rooms would

218
00:17:45,350 --> 00:17:51,050
might get just paint that when they were figuring out it was kind of a blend, a blend.

219
00:17:51,050 --> 00:17:57,150
a blend. So this is it we're starting in the middle point and so the cost for

220
00:17:57,150 --> 00:18:04,630
that was a 20 million 20.5 million to do that work the renovation plus also

221
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:13,630
renovating the annex any services again 10% of that work FF&E 1.4 million we

222
00:18:13,630 --> 00:18:16,870
just carried the number again this is high-level you could debate and whether

223
00:18:16,870 --> 00:18:20,390
or not it should be a little higher because it's a little greater space but we

224
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:25,210
carried the number. The owners continued to see, again, 10% so that would be $2 million.

225
00:18:26,210 --> 00:18:32,770
Soft costs would be a little larger because it's a figure space, so even though it's, well, she's the, so that's one point.

226
00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:39,610
Yeah, one million. And then the three projects, the elevator, the wayfinding in the window.

227
00:18:40,250 --> 00:18:46,430
The one project, like I said, I mentioned before, that's not in here, are the boilers. When I walk through the building, I know you're doing the boiler project,

228
00:18:46,430 --> 00:18:50,410
better know what's that's worth and when that's going to be done that might be

229
00:18:50,410 --> 00:18:56,770
done even before I don't know what the timeline that is. Does anybody know? No idea.

230
00:18:58,690 --> 00:19:01,370
We've got a great old boiler. Those things are work horses they made. It's the

231
00:19:01,370 --> 00:19:04,870
original one but they're not efficient and it's behind this useful life but it

232
00:19:04,870 --> 00:19:09,950
definitely by the way this building is extremely well maintained so hats off to

233
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:14,370
the person who does it just walking around in it just a great job. I've walked a

234
00:19:14,370 --> 00:19:17,990
A lot of buildings this one is really well maintained, so I want to state that.

235
00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:20,010
That's my book.

236
00:19:20,970 --> 00:19:25,550
Thank you for the presentation and just a quick terminology clarification.

237
00:19:26,130 --> 00:19:30,170
So the top of option two, first of all, GSF, what's the G part?

238
00:19:30,750 --> 00:19:30,930
Gross.

239
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:32,490
Gross square feet.

240
00:19:32,870 --> 00:19:34,010
How's that different than square feet?

241
00:19:34,250 --> 00:19:36,090
It's just same deal.

242
00:19:36,410 --> 00:19:37,210
Okay, net and gross.

243
00:19:38,050 --> 00:19:42,010
Gross is a viewer to draw a line throughout the whole building, around the whole building.

244
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:48,670
It was because we didn't have all the specific numbers and net would be net spaces less the walls

245
00:19:48,670 --> 00:19:53,810
Okay, right. So this is rough cut and not walking around with a

246
00:19:55,030 --> 00:19:57,190
Measuring tape. Secondly

247
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:29,920
I'd like to moderate, means what? A blend. So because it's very high level, I'm talking to David, we were going through various spaces, I go, what about this one? Well, that one probably a little bit more because we're removing walls. So then now you're removing walls, you're not your touch and ceiling, as you're touching all the floors, you're basically that one's a little heavier. This room, this one room might be just used as is, so it might be just paint and carpet. Yeah, so there are areas that we had investigated that obviously

248
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,020
would need maybe more minor renovation, maybe modern and more major.

249
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:41,320
More major, I would say, in some of the police area where the locker rooms and showers,

250
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:45,760
you have plumbing fixtures, you have mechanical, you have a lot of it, that would be more

251
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,220
major.

252
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:54,620
In the, say, the lower level where we're housing and planning and development are maybe it's

253
00:20:54,620 --> 00:20:58,680
okay to kind of slip in and grow into it as is.

254
00:20:59,120 --> 00:21:02,320
Maybe refresh the lighting, maybe refresh the finishes,

255
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,480
but in terms of, there's a balance of private offices

256
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,400
in open space and maybe that would be perfect

257
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,420
for some of the expansion that would be needed.

258
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:11,160
That would be more minor.

259
00:21:11,460 --> 00:21:15,720
So when we were looking at these high level numbers,

260
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,360
you know, we were looking at about $100 a square foot

261
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:24,580
for more minor, 150 for moderate and 200 for major.

262
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:30,380
Okay, so you're classing your establishing broad buckets

263
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,880
and making broad estimates, and then it seems the cost driver

264
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,820
is the total square, gross square footage in each between

265
00:21:38,820 --> 00:21:40,760
at least one and two, option one and two, right?

266
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:42,360
That's the driver here is.

267
00:21:42,460 --> 00:21:46,820
Right, and with two, there's a larger new addition.

268
00:21:46,820 --> 00:21:56,840
So it's an addition that you is going to, part of its underground, there's some earth

269
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,960
work that needs to be moved, you know, so it's all of that was figured in.

270
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,840
Well, and if I'm following correctly, there should be little to no owner's contingency

271
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:13,240
for the new, unless we think of the Lakewood Hospital site where we did find underground

272
00:22:16,140 --> 00:22:19,420
So hold my fire now and okay, thank you.

273
00:22:27,230 --> 00:22:29,190
All right, I'll continue then.

274
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:36,690
So option three is probably is the largest of the three options at 33,000 square foot

275
00:22:36,690 --> 00:22:42,630
worn road sites, the existing board of education building or the old board of education building,

276
00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:43,810
renovating that building.

277
00:22:45,050 --> 00:22:50,410
So what we thought in that building, it's a complete got renovation, it's 100-year-old

278
00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:52,570
structure, there's a lot of work to be done on it.

279
00:22:53,150 --> 00:22:56,490
We're looking at 17.5 million in construction costs.

280
00:22:57,310 --> 00:23:03,530
The property costs which we did put in here were less the sale of the annex building, so

281
00:23:03,530 --> 00:23:04,430
it was a guesstimate.

282
00:23:05,270 --> 00:23:09,850
We understood it was about 1.5 to purchase, and maybe you'd get a half a million to sell

283
00:23:09,850 --> 00:23:10,310
the annex.

284
00:23:10,310 --> 00:23:14,090
those numbers could be off, but we put a placeholder and there's some people

285
00:23:14,090 --> 00:23:20,290
understand that it's part of the equation, A&E services, again at 10%, 1.7 million,

286
00:23:21,050 --> 00:23:26,470
FF&E, back that down a little bit, at 1.2 million, because we still have the

287
00:23:26,470 --> 00:23:31,610
City Hall renovation below, as you'll see, and then owners contingency still

288
00:23:31,610 --> 00:23:34,910
keeping it high even though they're doing a gut renovation for several reasons.

289
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:38,250
We still don't know what's going on with the foundation, there's water leaking in

290
00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:43,990
building. Once we take all the stuff, take the plaster and drywall off, we want to see

291
00:23:43,990 --> 00:23:48,230
what the structure looks like as their water mitigated through there as their structure

292
00:23:48,230 --> 00:23:56,260
we have to replace. There's just a lot of unknowns in a hundred-year-old building so we'd like

293
00:23:56,260 --> 00:24:02,640
to keep that contingency high for that reason. And then soft cost, adding the same soft cost

294
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,760
applied in this project as well for a total of 24.1 million for the one road.

295
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:14,800
Moving the city hall, so in this case, the city hall would not get an addition,

296
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:21,760
use the building as the square footage to 53.9,000 gross square feet,

297
00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:27,920
renovating it on a lighter scale because we're not going to be doing as much when I have any

298
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,120
addition so that was around $8.1 million.

299
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,200
A&E services for that portion of work would be about $800,000.

300
00:24:35,860 --> 00:24:40,100
FF&E, we still kept high because we didn't know if you'd still be buying all new furniture

301
00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:44,600
because this is one of those ones there's equity, if you renovated a portion of it and

302
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,680
only, no, I don't everybody gets new furniture, how would you want to approach it?

303
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:48,760
Again, that can go up and down.

304
00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:53,220
This is parametric so we're trying to, we're just shooting in dark here, you're trying

305
00:24:53,220 --> 00:24:59,420
to hit it in the middle and it could be lower, it could be higher by 10%.

306
00:25:02,130 --> 00:25:11,530
And then owners contingency at around 800,000 and then soft cost, 400,000, and then the three

307
00:25:11,530 --> 00:25:19,270
respective projects that we've talked about before, with a total of 15.5 million, taking

308
00:25:19,270 --> 00:25:25,990
both of those projects in the consideration, adding them up at 39.7 million. So I went

309
00:25:25,990 --> 00:25:32,890
through that quickly. Are there any questions on option three? Well, how we drive the numbers?

310
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,240
That's my understanding. Thank you.

311
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,020
I know you were talking about owner contingency here and I'm

312
00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:56,720
just curious about comparisons with options two and three and why there's such a difference there

313
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,700
it would seem like if you're doing light-to-moderate building renovations in both of these places that

314
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:08,440
But what you would discover in one situation would be the same thing that you would discover in the other situation.

315
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:17,420
So you're saying option two from region correctly, option two and the second part of option three in comparison?

316
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,420
Yes. Or the aggregate of three.

317
00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:21,460
The second part of three.

318
00:26:21,820 --> 00:26:26,540
Right, so the difference of 1 million versus 816.

319
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,240
Well, I think it's two, right, in option number two.

320
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:36,560
I'm sorry to right to because it's right and then half of that because we did a that's a great

321
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,520
That's a great question. So that was 10 percent maybe actually that should be a little higher

322
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:43,680
Um on option three should be lower

323
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:51,920
Option two maybe I'm not sure how you came up to your number. I'm just 10 percent that's 10 percent of the construction

324
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,740
Okay, that's quite a difference. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. And again, it was

325
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,160
Option two was a little more aggressive

326
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,320
of because you would be moving more walls.

327
00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:06,280
Option three, you have a lot of room so that the thought was,

328
00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:08,160
they would be utilizing the rooms as is.

329
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,760
Probably not the most efficient, but you can keep the walls

330
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:13,680
in place, so you're not opening the walls,

331
00:27:13,820 --> 00:27:15,280
you're not experiencing a lot of unknowns.

332
00:27:16,060 --> 00:27:17,860
So it was, it's a guess to the minute at this point,

333
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,500
because you're at this parametric level.

334
00:27:20,260 --> 00:27:20,700
Thank you.

335
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,280
That's my bullet.

336
00:27:24,140 --> 00:27:26,140
To follow on the councilman's briefing,

337
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,280
I think also the difference between option two and three

338
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:37,980
is that option two proposes a new addition of square footed in annex renovation, and I think option three does not do either of those things.

339
00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:45,560
So more is going on for option two that's driving the present city hall cost.

340
00:27:46,220 --> 00:27:47,220
That's some it's higher.

341
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:48,420
Thank you.

342
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:53,680
If I may add to that briefly, the total contingency for option three is around two and a half million.

343
00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:03,800
That's probably the better comparison between option two and option three is the two and a half to two.

344
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:04,380
Thank you.

345
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:09,560
Other questions from council members?

346
00:28:10,220 --> 00:28:10,900
Where we are so far?

347
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:12,620
Dr. Brankton?

348
00:28:13,980 --> 00:28:15,160
Thank you, President Keppel.

349
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,000
Just a couple quick questions as I'm trying to take notes on everything here.

350
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:25,840
I was wondering what number per square foot was used for new construction to start with?

351
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:26,840
That's for

352
00:28:30,620 --> 00:28:31,420
option one.

353
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:39,120
If they're different throughout, I assumed maybe it was the same number used for new construction

354
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,480
on all three, but if they're different, I think the front addition would be more expensive

355
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:47,740
because of the amount of soil that would need to be removed.

356
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,360
But do you have any of those numbers?

357
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:54,240
So maybe I'll just say my questions and then you can look into it.

358
00:28:54,700 --> 00:28:55,380
So that was one.

359
00:28:55,380 --> 00:29:02,540
And then the second was, what did you use for the, so there was low mod high, 100,

360
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:03,600
150, 200.

361
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,220
So looking for the new construction.

362
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:10,760
And then what number did you use for a square foot for the renovation of Warn Road?

363
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:18,580
And then the last question was comparing the raw construction numbers that were originally

364
00:29:18,580 --> 00:29:24,640
provided from your firm on these options, the raw construction number on these are higher.

365
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:30,980
So I wondered if there was a reason that you could explain that it's higher.

366
00:29:33,210 --> 00:29:42,410
So I could, yes, I can speak to where we came up with the existing building renovation

367
00:29:42,410 --> 00:29:45,930
for Warren Road and how that's different from this building.

368
00:29:46,510 --> 00:29:47,870
Was that one of the questions?

369
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:48,750
No.

370
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:50,970
No, I'm sorry that wasn't one of the questions.

371
00:29:50,970 --> 00:29:59,110
Okay, so the first one was just what so worn road what what number did you use for renovation for square foot for worn road?

372
00:30:00,050 --> 00:30:29,910
And then second was what number did you use for new construction for the additions on city hall, existing city hall. And then third, comparing the estimates from your firm for these options. The hard hard costs, the hard construction costs were less on the first estimates that you provided than this. So I wondered what the difference was, why they're higher now. And that's just for the hard cost. I understand.

373
00:30:29,910 --> 00:30:31,890
and that we included, you included,

374
00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:33,410
and this one, the elevator project,

375
00:30:33,770 --> 00:30:35,970
well, the elevator wasn't, but the windows weren't in,

376
00:30:36,150 --> 00:30:37,690
so that ain't the total cost,

377
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:40,530
but I'm just looking at that base construction cost

378
00:30:40,530 --> 00:30:41,970
and why that's higher now.

379
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,900
Okay, so I can speak to option one,

380
00:30:51,740 --> 00:30:55,180
the addition, we were looking at around 440,

381
00:30:55,540 --> 00:30:56,120
this word, but,

382
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:58,960
or 3767,

383
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:09,640
renovations were for City Hallward around at 150, which is what we thought would be a

384
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:16,680
debt-blended cost between minor and moderate and major, 150, and the NX ended up being

385
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:24,080
around 167, so still within that range, so that was option 1.

386
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,660
option 2.

387
00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:45,580
This is the new front edition. We had that at around 500 or foot 4.95 and

388
00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:48,230
the

389
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:56,510
same numbers for the renovation that blended rate of around 150 or so that was option

390
00:31:56,510 --> 00:32:08,090
and one in option two, the new construction for three was rated around 500, and that's

391
00:32:08,710 --> 00:32:16,610
where we proposed, and again, that was our look at the blocking diagram and felt that

392
00:32:17,510 --> 00:32:25,470
you needed a small new addition even on the Warn Road to have the lobby, the security

393
00:32:25,470 --> 00:32:32,490
elevator, new fires there, and so that was around that 500 square foot. So those

394
00:32:32,490 --> 00:32:38,290
are the new renovation costs, the new building renovation costs, and then the

395
00:32:39,230 --> 00:32:44,910
building renovation costs were options one and two. For option three, the

396
00:32:44,910 --> 00:32:52,190
Warren Road, we had that, which I don't think that was one of your questions.

397
00:32:52,190 --> 00:32:57,650
that was at that more major renovation cost and we had that as a range but the

398
00:32:57,650 --> 00:33:01,690
last one of the other questions I think they hit is option two the

399
00:33:01,690 --> 00:33:06,090
construction cost at 20.5 million it's 17 million for higher plus the

400
00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:09,690
contingencies and escalation that we have built in their number which comes up to

401
00:33:09,690 --> 00:33:21,650
20 million 500 so it's 17 0 8 4 0 2 5 plus 3 4 1 6 8 0 5 that's how we developed

402
00:33:21,650 --> 00:33:22,270
That's $20 million.

403
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:26,460
So we...

404
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:26,720
Thank you.

405
00:33:26,940 --> 00:33:27,600
Through President Hubbard.

406
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:28,480
Maybe this...

407
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:29,440
We could just sit down and...

408
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,220
This is not for tonight.

409
00:33:30,220 --> 00:33:31,340
Yeah, we can go through it.

410
00:33:31,460 --> 00:33:33,520
But I'd still have just a couple of questions.

411
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:33,860
Sure.

412
00:33:34,060 --> 00:33:34,740
Sure, absolutely.

413
00:33:35,140 --> 00:33:36,220
Not tonight on the floor.

414
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:36,800
Thank you.

415
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:39,080
Thank you.

416
00:33:39,500 --> 00:33:44,600
And again, not to keep driving home the high-level conceptual nature of these numbers.

417
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:52,140
But, you know, as we're trying to imagine an addition that's a blank box and placing things

418
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:56,600
However, but just trying to get a sense of the scale of each of these projects and what

419
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,340
we might be looking at.

420
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,340
And I think maybe you did mention it before, I'm not going to sit on it.

421
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,820
We tried to, one of the goals of this thing is exercise was to make an equal look at all

422
00:34:05,820 --> 00:34:06,340
three options.

423
00:34:06,340 --> 00:34:10,500
So one wasn't way to heavy the other or had more investigated the other because then it's

424
00:34:10,500 --> 00:34:11,860
not a fair comparison.

425
00:34:12,460 --> 00:34:15,260
I think one of the charges you gave us is that we really want to understand these things,

426
00:34:15,780 --> 00:34:19,480
the three apples here, you know, what we have to deal with, even though they are different

427
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:20,000
and cost.

428
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:30,640
So one's more expensive, you know, one's an apple, honey crisp, and the other ones, or whatever, or Fuji, but, you know, using those food analogies, that's what the goal of this was.

429
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:34,660
I just want to make sure that people understand it. It was kind of an even approach to all of them.

430
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:44,040
The option three part of the construction cost was also the need for the additional driveway

431
00:34:44,900 --> 00:34:49,460
and those kinds of things, or is that part of that per square foot cost?

432
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,300
You mean as far as Warren goes?

433
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:52,200
As far as Warren goes.

434
00:34:52,460 --> 00:34:56,220
Yeah, we took a, when we sat down and looked at it, it wasn't just the building, it was site

435
00:34:56,220 --> 00:34:57,060
development cost.

436
00:34:57,420 --> 00:34:59,460
How are we going to have a new approach to City Hall?

437
00:35:00,050 --> 00:35:28,710
What we're going to do with parking, everything from mechanicals, where the mechanicals would probably go, is going to initial structure needed for that, and go up top on the side, is there going to be a generator, where would that be located. You start to get into start thinking, sexually, how all these costs can really add up. Right now, you have a generator for this building that does everything but the elevators and the chillers. But it handles all the rest. You're going to do that same thing there, or do you want to have a full generation.

438
00:35:28,710 --> 00:35:30,390
that's just a question on the road.

439
00:35:30,710 --> 00:35:33,270
That's how prices can go up and down, right?

440
00:35:33,470 --> 00:35:34,430
It's you keep asking questions

441
00:35:34,430 --> 00:35:36,790
and you keep saying, how do you, what do you want to design?

442
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,780
But a couple more clarifying questions.

443
00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:48,380
So the, it needs that you just named,

444
00:35:49,060 --> 00:35:52,020
that the chair just named, they're found where,

445
00:35:52,700 --> 00:35:56,380
where do you group the driveway and paving

446
00:35:56,380 --> 00:35:58,500
and parking costs in which category?

447
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:14,220
So, in our budget we included, we had identified, or it was identified together that there needed to be a new drive and parking from Warren Road and that got included in the new dollar.

448
00:36:14,220 --> 00:36:24,200
So that's just in construction, that's part of the new construction of the new addition,

449
00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:29,540
but it's part of the, what we're calling the Warn Road existing building representation.

450
00:36:29,660 --> 00:36:29,880
Wonderful.

451
00:36:30,340 --> 00:36:38,780
And then the methodology question, these are $20, $25, presumably.

452
00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:42,840
So we included through 2026.

453
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:51,500
tax. We accounted for escalation through 2026. So kind of cost-aliving increased

454
00:36:51,500 --> 00:37:00,860
equivalency in expenses. Calculate your best guess at inflation and bake that

455
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:08,840
into these numbers through vital core. 5%. So historically, historically, before we

456
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,520
We had this big last few years when it went crazy.

457
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:13,960
You could have always assumed 4%.

458
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:16,200
Some years it was two, some years it was three.

459
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,520
But over the time, historically you could say 4%.

460
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,880
Now the last few years when we had crazy eight or nine percent,

461
00:37:24,260 --> 00:37:26,160
it changed the whole game, it changed the whole model.

462
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,820
Worth seeing construction prices still in that four or five.

463
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:31,640
For next quarter they're still going up.

464
00:37:32,140 --> 00:37:34,400
Steel's going up, copper's going up,

465
00:37:34,820 --> 00:37:36,320
aluminum's following that parity

466
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,440
because they figure if copper goes higher

467
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,000
silicon aluminum, so that changes all your wiring.

468
00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:47,000
You want to go from copper to aluminum, all those things add, and then, of course, the

469
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:47,600
tariff world.

470
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:48,640
That's another whole.

471
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:58,520
Now, any option, one, two, or three, is not expected to be permitted, contracted,

472
00:37:59,180 --> 00:38:04,640
developed, installed, you know, commenced, and then we're not cutting the ribbon by 12 months

473
00:38:04,640 --> 00:38:06,500
from now on any of these options, right?

474
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:13,420
So, how does any of us estimate this a two-year project,

475
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:14,360
a three-year project?

476
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:16,060
How do you control for that?

477
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:18,300
Or is that, am I still on show?

478
00:38:19,180 --> 00:38:20,520
We'll have the estimation slide.

479
00:38:20,780 --> 00:38:21,460
And it's our best guess.

480
00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:22,900
That's a very good question.

481
00:38:23,220 --> 00:38:24,860
And we're going to get into this.

482
00:38:24,940 --> 00:38:26,020
It's an aggressive, best guess.

483
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,800
Well, that's our last slide.

484
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:29,600
So, yeah.

485
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:30,920
Any more questions on these?

486
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:31,340
Or we can,

487
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:37,760
again, I think you're on the next slide.

488
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,960
Next slide, please, Council, good to see you.

489
00:38:40,980 --> 00:38:41,920
Thanks for having us tonight.

490
00:38:43,340 --> 00:38:46,160
In the grand magnitude of the project, scenarios,

491
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,200
the economic impacts estimated are not very large,

492
00:38:49,740 --> 00:38:52,380
but I'll talk to you through two scenarios

493
00:38:52,380 --> 00:38:56,140
where the war and road building remains a private use

494
00:38:56,140 --> 00:38:59,280
and happens to get developed as a private end use.

495
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,740
Could be residential, could be commercial, could be mixed use.

496
00:39:02,300 --> 00:39:03,720
We'll probably require incentives.

497
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,440
And I was informed tonight that there may be an incentive

498
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:13,790
of request pending for that property or the legislation was approved so these numbers

499
00:39:13,790 --> 00:39:18,390
need to be updated so I'll talk about the updated numbers and we'll send them to after

500
00:39:18,390 --> 00:39:18,770
the meeting.

501
00:39:19,850 --> 00:39:25,490
But from an income tax standpoint that doesn't change based on the property taxes so for

502
00:39:25,490 --> 00:39:30,110
the one road property made some assumptions on commercial and residential use and blended

503
00:39:30,110 --> 00:39:34,410
the two scenarios to make things as equal as possible.

504
00:39:34,410 --> 00:39:38,550
the one year income tax estimate would be around 21,000 per year.

505
00:39:38,930 --> 00:39:42,490
Multiply that by 30, that's 640,000 over 30 year period.

506
00:39:43,070 --> 00:39:50,450
For the annex building, it's much smaller, it's a smaller site, smaller building, doesn't assume high rise going in.

507
00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:58,570
So the average impact on income taxes, we have a 5,500 a year, and 166,000 over 30 years.

508
00:39:58,570 --> 00:39:59,970
the property.

509
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:29,640
30 taxes is where things have changed tonight. The annex building, we estimate around 3,000 in city taxes per year if that's a private use. At 96,000 over 30 years in new taxes for the schools 10,000 per year and 300,000 over 30 years. Now, it could be a project that gets abated potentially. So that could affect things too. On the Board of Education building on Warn Road,

510
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:37,260
So given the tax incentives that were passed, there would be no new city taxes over the

511
00:40:37,260 --> 00:40:41,740
30 years because there's a tax statement for 15 years and a non-school tiff for the

512
00:40:41,740 --> 00:40:47,780
last 15 years of the 30 year period for the school taxes take that 1.4 million divided

513
00:40:47,780 --> 00:40:52,800
in half, so that would be a 700,000 over 30 years as the school's taxes.

514
00:40:53,600 --> 00:41:00,140
So, you're looking at a swing on the income tax front of half a million more per year

515
00:41:00,140 --> 00:41:04,640
from the Warren site being redeveloped as a private use on the property tax side.

516
00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:11,400
It's double the impacts for the schools but within 100 grand either way for city taxes.

517
00:41:15,460 --> 00:41:20,240
Again, these are small impacts compared to the overall maybe if Director Bianton has any

518
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:26,500
questions or comments to add. Okay. Happy to answer your questions. Or anyone else in the

519
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:26,940
administration?

520
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:34,380
No. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And you'll send us an updated side of

521
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:35,000
this. Thank you.

522
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,700
Okay. So the last slide is really a summary and then there's this cash

523
00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:48,460
flows which you were talking about before. So the again, it's to summarize the first option

524
00:41:48,460 --> 00:41:56,920
Then estimated project cost at $21.4 million, $62,000 plus, of course, where a fee to renovate in a new space.

525
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:02,400
No change to tax revenue, program fits, but there's no room for growth.

526
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:10,840
It makes a fair statement, city functions stay in one location, and there's no renovation at the exit to the existing jail or sparse spaces.

527
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:23,780
options. Option 2, you're at $30,984,985, $74,872 gross-grift fee to renovate in a new

528
00:42:23,780 --> 00:42:31,500
space. No change to tax revenue. Program fits with room for growth. City functions

529
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:37,020
stay in one location. And again, no renovation to the existing jail and support spaces.

530
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:47,900
options. Option three is at $39.7 million. $90,459 grocery to renovate in a new space.

531
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:54,880
Tax revenue, as Ken mentioned, there are some changes, so these numbers might get tweaked

532
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:03,440
a bit, but it was based on the earlier projections and his spreadsheet. There would be a $15,800

533
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,280
lost every year of average income tax because it would now be a city on

534
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:14,980
property and the property tax would be less $60,000. That's with the assumption that

535
00:43:14,980 --> 00:43:21,680
the annex would be sold. And occupied and redeveloped. Yeah. And occupied and redeveloped.

536
00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,380
Yeah. All those assumptions. A program fits with plenty of room for growth. City

537
00:43:27,380 --> 00:43:31,220
functions are in two locations and again no renovation to the existing jail and

538
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:37,200
support spaces. From a cash flow perspective. Now this is aggressive, and we don't know

539
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,260
what the delivery method is and how you're going to do it. There's different ways you're

540
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:44,440
going to do it. I know one thought was going, um, design bill with the criteria architect.

541
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,560
But really we think, and maybe it shouldn't be fiscal year, it should be calendar year,

542
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:56,020
apologies on that. Um, that next year, 26, we'd be spent in design. And then in tail end,

543
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,180
you might be able to pull it off. If you're aggressive with design and you know what you

544
00:43:59,180 --> 00:44:04,520
want, you can bid by the end of the year and be ready for construction in year 27.

545
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,920
So the first one is probably a two-year project plus a little bit.

546
00:44:09,660 --> 00:44:16,600
The second one is definitely a three-year project, and the third one is definitely, well,

547
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,240
it's probably four years' duration.

548
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:22,360
So actually the second one is probably four years, I'm sorry, because you have your design.

549
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,920
So it's really a four-year project, the second one, and a four-year project on the third

550
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,740
one as well, but you're really spending a lot more money on the last end, because you're

551
00:44:30,740 --> 00:44:37,320
renovating that last building after you build, after you renovate the property on Foreign

552
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:37,560
Road.

553
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:41,860
You want to renovate that first, move everybody in, and then renovate the other space.

554
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,700
At least that would be the...

555
00:44:44,700 --> 00:44:47,600
Seen the logical way to do it, but you can do it otherwise too.

556
00:44:51,260 --> 00:44:55,100
And these are high-level, but this kind of gives you a sense of what your cash flows would

557
00:44:55,100 --> 00:44:55,300
be.

558
00:44:58,690 --> 00:44:59,290
Thank you.

559
00:44:59,290 --> 00:44:59,930
I'm gonna go

560
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:07,500
Councilman Hamilton Steiner, first. Thank you, President Kepel. Okay, so just to clarify the project

561
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:13,080
of cash flow and the planning. So either way, either option one, two, or three, that first

562
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,480
year would be like the planning, the bidding, all of that stuff, right? Essentially, okay,

563
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:25,060
so that's like essentially year zero. And then the subsequent years would be year one,

564
00:45:25,060 --> 00:45:29,600
year two, year three. So when you're saying option two and three are going to be three

565
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,020
year projects. That's what you mean. And option one would be two years.

566
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:38,880
Correct. Okay. Great. And then thank you for clarifying the fiscal year. We were just having

567
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,380
a little discussion before that. How confusing that is our fiscal year goes January

568
00:45:43,380 --> 00:45:50,240
wanted December 30th. So you could replace it with calendar year. So it's clear to people. But

569
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,880
So yeah, we'll make that change in the revised copies.

570
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:56,080
Yeah, yeah.

571
00:45:56,380 --> 00:45:57,400
Just not because yeah.

572
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:57,860
Yeah, yeah.

573
00:45:57,860 --> 00:45:59,800
Who was a yearly thing, but I should have put fiscal.

574
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:00,780
I should have put calendar year.

575
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:01,280
Yeah.

576
00:46:01,460 --> 00:46:02,100
No, it's fine.

577
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,580
So we'd be looking at potentially either option.

578
00:46:05,580 --> 00:46:10,140
If we were to move forward at some point next year, 1.2, 1.5

579
00:46:10,140 --> 00:46:13,640
or 1.6, approximately coming out of next year's budget.

580
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:15,120
Correct.

581
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:16,100
Thank you.

582
00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:17,500
High level.

583
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:17,900
Correct.

584
00:46:17,900 --> 00:46:18,100
Correct.

585
00:46:18,340 --> 00:46:18,780
Okay.

586
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:21,160
Okay.

587
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,560
Other council member, do you have something else?

588
00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:26,540
I'm just more clarifying questions.

589
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:27,820
So this is all very helpful.

590
00:46:30,820 --> 00:46:32,460
Back to the dollars question.

591
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:40,560
So at the bottom of this slide, again, these are shall we call them $26 across the schedule

592
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:42,180
just for uniformity.

593
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:44,040
Okay.

594
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:54,500
Right, so we may find that it creeps up, but it'd be, yeah, all of them would be plus 5% ish, we correct.

595
00:46:54,900 --> 00:47:01,560
For open design, you're probably the least risk as far as the cost escalation part goes, because you're not building something.

596
00:47:01,780 --> 00:47:09,380
It's professional fees and those are about, that's probably in that range, you're not going to pay all the professional fees because they have construction administrations.

597
00:47:09,380 --> 00:47:14,040
And so if you take the A&E fees, you know, the architectural engineering fees, two-thirds

598
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:20,080
of it will be spent during the Semitech design, design development, and contract documents

599
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,760
in a traditional method, right?

600
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,420
So that's about two-thirds, a little more than two-thirds of their fee.

601
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:26,160
The rest will be spent during construction.

602
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:28,720
A portion, but a sizeable portion.

603
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:32,640
Yeah, but you'll have some other testing, you'll have other consultants upon that.

604
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,360
So these are range costs.

605
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:34,940
Okay.

606
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:36,180
That answered my question.

607
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:36,500
Thanks.

608
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:44,840
And then the room for growth statements, actually before I ask that, do the annexes assume

609
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,620
to be sold and redeveloped in option 3 only and retain for ownership in option 1 and

610
00:47:49,620 --> 00:47:49,880
2?

611
00:47:50,460 --> 00:47:51,100
At this point, yes.

612
00:47:51,460 --> 00:47:51,640
Okay.

613
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:53,320
Just to understand what we're looking at.

614
00:47:53,820 --> 00:47:57,960
And then the room for growth statement, those are insightful and important.

615
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:05,480
So, how do we know that option 1's no room for growth, but option 2 and 3 have room for

616
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:05,780
growth?

617
00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:06,860
with your patient out on?

618
00:48:08,540 --> 00:48:14,420
Yes, so at the end of option one, we looked at it

619
00:48:14,420 --> 00:48:18,340
and that's when it was discussed that the police

620
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,760
in courts, mostly the police, they needed room to grow

621
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,400
in order to get the correct, if you will,

622
00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:32,800
square foot per person, and comparable

623
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,360
to other municipalities.

624
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:40,240
So, that's where really the growth needed to happen the most.

625
00:48:40,940 --> 00:48:48,280
With regards to all the other departments, we were able to reconfigure and find spaces

626
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:53,860
throughout the building, but there wasn't really a three-year growth, a five-year growth

627
00:48:53,860 --> 00:48:55,580
in terms of...

628
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:57,160
Okay.

629
00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:59,420
I think I followed, but let me make sure, though.

630
00:48:59,420 --> 00:49:11,580
So, option one does propose a small addition, would that small addition meet the needs of the police department?

631
00:49:11,740 --> 00:49:15,420
It did not, and that's why it went on policy and so on.

632
00:49:15,660 --> 00:49:22,580
Option, that the needs get more fully met in option two and three, that's the point.

633
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:33,040
Okay, and let's say we do one of those, and we're done at the end of the project, now the police are in an expanded space.

634
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:48,700
We have no more room for growth, right? Is that what we're saying? In other words, is behind your statement that there's room for growth that a future phase beyond the needs understood today about the need for police expansion.

635
00:49:48,700 --> 00:49:54,580
Let's say we take care of those, are you saying we're baking in additional growth potential

636
00:49:54,580 --> 00:49:59,760
beyond that at the end of option two or three, or that's not what the phrase means?

637
00:50:00,240 --> 00:50:29,320
So, we were able to work together with the police department, so look at the programs that needed to happen, not only currently, but in the future within that, within that expanded square footage for, for police, within option two, and then subsequently. Okay, so that's really the room for growth. Well, it's there are really a statement about the ability of those options to meet the expanded space needs for the police department, is that right?

638
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,180
I don't achieve a few seem like you have some day interjecting.

639
00:50:35,330 --> 00:50:38,750
Not being fully aware of option two at all.

640
00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:49,050
I think what Mr. Big Dave over there was trying to say was this option three that we had discussed

641
00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:58,210
or that I was a part of meets the needs now, as it for future growth, I think it's just

642
00:50:58,210 --> 00:51:05,230
What we discussed was meeting the needs of today, okay, is that what you mean by what you're presenting here?

643
00:51:05,570 --> 00:51:12,170
So it's what may be a little bit confusing as well is that we did five options and the options have been renumbered okay

644
00:51:12,970 --> 00:51:16,470
That's where they're not

645
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:25,410
Let me maybe where we can clarify here is when we talk about room for growth are we talking about personnel growth or

646
00:51:25,410 --> 00:51:28,010
for the usage of the space.

647
00:51:28,430 --> 00:51:34,030
Personnel growth was my understanding, I mean, there's not any anticipation of growing

648
00:51:34,030 --> 00:51:35,870
more space after one of these.

649
00:51:37,130 --> 00:51:37,410
Okay.

650
00:51:37,710 --> 00:51:45,210
So, in terms of, I guess, the question then is, if we're saying option one would get

651
00:51:45,210 --> 00:51:52,690
us a female locker room, maybe some things, but it doesn't give us any wiggle room for

652
00:51:52,690 --> 00:51:59,850
the future in terms of police, but I guess my question is when we're talking about

653
00:51:59,850 --> 00:52:03,690
room for growth, well, I have two. One is probably more of an architectural question,

654
00:52:03,830 --> 00:52:09,330
and one is more of a staffing question. So the architectural question being, so option

655
00:52:09,330 --> 00:52:16,130
one was one specific solution of the small addition on the side. But of course, that's just

656
00:52:16,130 --> 00:52:28,570
one possible design solution that just for the sake of getting our heads around this issue that we have a small addition, a large addition, the two building solution.

657
00:52:29,910 --> 00:52:40,330
So the large addition accomplishes a great deal of square footage and so if we're talking about personnel growth versus the use of space growth.

658
00:52:41,550 --> 00:52:45,670
I guess that's what I'm trying to get my head around too is option one is a small addition

659
00:52:45,670 --> 00:52:48,710
but could that be phased?

660
00:52:48,990 --> 00:52:55,970
So if you did option one and you solve the worst immediate stress and then in a couple

661
00:52:55,970 --> 00:53:00,690
years you go up or you go out or something like that, you know.

662
00:53:00,830 --> 00:53:05,110
So that's kind of when we're talking about room for growth, we're talking about the project

663
00:53:05,490 --> 00:53:08,270
I'm going to state this and you can tell me if I'm right or wrong architects.

664
00:53:08,270 --> 00:53:18,170
So, room for growth meaning that if we get with any of these options that there's in the

665
00:53:18,170 --> 00:53:25,410
structure as laid out at the high level conceptual, there's room for additional personnel or use

666
00:53:25,410 --> 00:53:28,130
of space that isn't currently contemplated.

667
00:53:28,430 --> 00:53:29,790
Does that make sense?

668
00:53:30,570 --> 00:53:36,990
So, regardless of option that we're saying, if there's room for growth, it means that more

669
00:53:36,990 --> 00:53:41,050
more people could be in this space than are squeezed in the design?

670
00:53:41,830 --> 00:53:49,550
So in option one with that very small addition to the east, it really only solves a few

671
00:53:49,550 --> 00:53:49,990
things.

672
00:53:50,350 --> 00:54:01,430
It may have moved like training and the roll call room and to be able to squeeze in with

673
00:54:01,430 --> 00:54:06,290
the locker room would go for men's and then find a spot that would then take over a

674
00:54:06,290 --> 00:54:09,510
bobby space for the women's locker room. So it really,

675
00:54:11,890 --> 00:54:13,890
it doesn't give the

676
00:54:13,890 --> 00:54:17,730
amount of square footage that the police department needs.

677
00:54:18,710 --> 00:54:25,410
Yeah, no, I, I get that. I'm just trying to define the term because it's also, it's a

678
00:54:25,410 --> 00:54:29,110
design term in terms of we're trying to accomplish X number of square feet per

679
00:54:29,110 --> 00:54:33,050
person, and that doesn't happen here, but it does happen this one.

680
00:54:33,570 --> 00:54:41,610
And then the other question is that's making assumptions to about the other use of

681
00:54:41,610 --> 00:54:42,210
city halls.

682
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:46,530
So if you bump out into planning, and then more planning department personnel work from

683
00:54:46,530 --> 00:54:51,050
home, and so then you have more flexibility in space, but that's not necessarily contemplated

684
00:54:51,050 --> 00:54:51,590
in that design.

685
00:54:51,590 --> 00:54:52,810
I'm just trying to get ahead around it.

686
00:54:52,930 --> 00:54:54,110
But I'm going to go to Vice President Baker.

687
00:54:54,250 --> 00:54:56,890
He knows more about this and can probably say it more articulately than I think.

688
00:54:56,890 --> 00:54:59,930
I think at this stage, I think what we're bumping up against.

689
00:55:02,420 --> 00:55:29,980
And so we're not at that program stage as I understand it. David maybe has a little bit more in-depth knowledge of that through his space study analysis that he and his firm did. But I think basically as a council and as a city and as a public we think about is, no bill does we have about 59 or 58,000 square feet of municipal police office space. Option 1, you get 63, option 2, you get 75, option 3, you get 90. I think that's where the term is.

690
00:55:29,980 --> 00:55:32,400
room for growth comes from, you just have more square footage, right?

691
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,480
How you program that is a totally different detailed design question that kind of meets

692
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,700
with the program, right?

693
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:45,620
And each job classification probably has like a standard square foot per employee, and

694
00:55:45,620 --> 00:55:50,860
yeah, I'm getting a little bit over my skis, but so I think that in these particular sides

695
00:55:50,860 --> 00:55:53,380
what room for growth means is just you just have more square footage, right?

696
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:58,240
Dedicated to that function, and you can figure out what to do with it because we don't have

697
00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:07,960
We have super detailed designs, we have conceptual counsel, what do we help work with the administration to say this is what we're willing to fund, this is what we think is the right option.

698
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:13,000
In the immediate time we have a building that's for sale and we need to start making decisions and thinking about it critically.

699
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:14,900
So I think that's what this does.

700
00:56:15,180 --> 00:56:21,340
It doesn't, we're getting into programming and that's very important, incredibly important, but we're just not there with this exercise.

701
00:56:21,580 --> 00:56:21,940
Is that correct?

702
00:56:21,940 --> 00:56:32,920
I mean, that is correct in order, I mean, in order to, so what was Conceptual

703
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:42,900
Estimate 3 of 5 is now what 3 is, got it, and with the addition of renovating

704
00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:48,980
Warren Road. And that's the scheme where we did really

705
00:56:48,980 --> 00:56:54,700
look a little bit more at programming for the police department and for courts to know

706
00:56:54,700 --> 00:57:04,800
that they would have the appropriate amount of square foot needed per person for the functions.

707
00:57:05,940 --> 00:57:12,520
So there were certain concepts that had more detailed program than that.

708
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:19,180
And I think what Chris's arm did is, you know, they just, you know, in looking at the

709
00:57:20,020 --> 00:57:26,420
amount of money, the amount of square footage, they just went by the totals and gave that

710
00:57:26,420 --> 00:57:32,640
square footage with regards to who gets what, you know, that's still, you know, it's still

711
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:32,980
blocks.

712
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:35,420
Yeah, I mean, we took a stab at it.

713
00:57:36,900 --> 00:57:41,520
Yeah, and that's part of, and I'm sorry, and I think one of the last things I'll mention

714
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,540
is, you know, the blob out front, right?

715
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,560
It doesn't have to go out the way it did.

716
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:47,960
It could more hug the building.

717
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:50,120
It's just, I think, conceptually speaking,

718
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:51,880
what would happen if we added, you know,

719
00:57:51,940 --> 00:57:53,280
that amount of square footage of the building?

720
00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,520
In my eyes, you know, a fine employer in the city of Lakewood,

721
00:57:57,820 --> 00:57:59,780
but a school I don't like for sports reason,

722
00:57:59,980 --> 00:58:02,220
St. Ed's kind of did the same thing that came out on the front.

723
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:02,380
Right.

724
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:03,360
Yeah.

725
00:58:05,420 --> 00:58:07,920
I think the other part of my question that is,

726
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:09,360
isn't regards to the person,

727
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:11,200
and I think that's a bigger picture question,

728
00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:27,980
That isn't part of this exercise, but is important to think about, you know, is Councilman Bullock points out to us this we've been the city has had difficult financial times before at one point losing staff and I think every department except police and fire.

729
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:39,120
And so just thinking operationally, if there is a plan to expand staffing and what those long range operation costs are, not just in police but in any department.

730
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:48,620
that goes to ongoing operational costs and, you know, what size, how much space do we need for what size staff doing what?

731
00:58:49,060 --> 00:58:56,240
So those are kind of bigger picture questions that are outside of the sexer size, but it is part of this whole thought process for me.

732
00:58:56,940 --> 00:58:58,920
Council member Hamilton Steiner.

733
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:05,000
Yeah, so going back to the whole room for growth and maybe this is more

734
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:10,920
directed at Chief Fisher, you know, I think I don't know if it would be the

735
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:14,800
appropriate. I know you said, you know, bigger picture personnel, but I think as

736
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:20,580
far as the police, it would be nice to know what the future five-year, ten-year

737
00:59:20,580 --> 00:59:24,700
plan for the police force is in terms of recruitment, who we're going to be

738
00:59:24,700 --> 00:59:39,660
bringing in because then I think we can make a better decision, I think going back to your question about the physical sort of footprint of option one in the room for growth.

739
00:59:39,660 --> 00:59:49,580
If that were the option, would there be additional space to come back and add on?

740
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:56,220
So if we're able to fit the police needs right now, would we be able to come back and do

741
00:59:56,220 --> 00:59:57,000
additional work?

742
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,020
let's say in, you know, five years.

743
01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:29,440
We boom again, right? So could we come back? So I guess those are my questions, and I don't know if Chief Fisher, you want it to respond. So your question is staffing level. I see us maintaining the same level of staff. It's the, obviously, the demographics, the females, unfortunately, right now, in the male locker room or the dr. Br. locker room. Not only that, and not to get, again, this is high level conceptual, but the,

744
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:38,940
I think Mr. Falken can also speak to is that the rooms right now as they're configured are an adequate, like the effective real evolve walk through.

745
01:00:39,080 --> 01:00:41,420
I mean, the desks and stuff like that.

746
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,960
So, it's a hard question to answer, staff wise, I anticipate having maintained the staff, but

747
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:51,740
obviously probably hiring more females still and specializing units and

748
01:00:51,740 --> 01:00:55,200
getting people that work spaces they need, they just don't have it right now.

749
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:55,700
Thank

750
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:27,220
you. And I would be interested to hear not necessarily tonight. This is again bigger conversation, but I know that there were that there was a lot of conversation that happened with the different departments about the types of spaces that they need because it is also in this concept of what type of spaces needed for what type of work and as well as the broader conversations to about in modern work area, you know, we all lived through COVID here at City Hall,

751
01:01:27,220 --> 01:01:32,140
And, you know, are we, do we need as much in-person workspace?

752
01:01:32,400 --> 01:01:39,680
And so, like, some of these conversations I'd be interested to, if that information has been gathered by the administration, I'd be interested to have some of that.

753
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:40,440
That's my block.

754
01:01:41,540 --> 01:01:47,780
Thanks. Since maybe I partly opened the can of worms, but thank you to everybody for the discussion of room for growth.

755
01:01:47,780 --> 01:01:57,200
I got the answer. So I think what we're talking about is, does each alternative option how well or not well does it meet the known needs of today?

756
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,600
day, and so I understand what we're talking about here.

757
01:02:01,020 --> 01:02:10,600
In terms of future expansion, I guess I'll put my cards in the table and say, I think

758
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:14,760
we should hold that for a future phase not bacon into this because there's costs.

759
01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:21,740
If we over-engineer or over-expand, we're for sure committing extra square footage costs,

760
01:02:21,940 --> 01:02:26,580
I think what's driving these different estimate costs for the total square footage, at least

761
01:02:26,580 --> 01:02:34,140
at this conceptual stage right and we probably can't afford that you know to have an annex

762
01:02:34,140 --> 01:02:42,360
that's vacant for indeterminate future needs today when we could reasonably do it and probably

763
01:02:42,360 --> 01:02:49,440
really do what the council president just said you know redesign flexible use of people are in

764
01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:54,980
the office three days they're working from home two days we could probably find the new space

765
01:02:55,780 --> 01:02:57,020
within the existing footprint.

766
01:02:57,020 --> 01:02:59,700
I think that's the very approach by analogy

767
01:02:59,700 --> 01:03:02,680
that our new parking garage at the ASTO,

768
01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:05,000
now CASTO, property is going to do.

769
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:07,140
We're going to have more functional spaces

770
01:03:07,140 --> 01:03:11,520
than physical spaces because of the smart coordination

771
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:12,020
of that.

772
01:03:12,420 --> 01:03:14,760
The other thing just, I mean, historically,

773
01:03:16,740 --> 01:03:20,080
first of all, drives operational costs.

774
01:03:20,240 --> 01:03:22,200
This is a city budgeting, not this project budgeting,

775
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:29,540
but every year we want to try to pay appropriate cost of living increases to the wages and then of course

776
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:33,800
benefits keep going up and up and up and up and up and I was actually

777
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:40,760
we offer good benefits in this in the city but that's not a zero cost so that kind of the

778
01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:45,380
rule of thumb or the policy is probably in our budget binders somewhere right in one of the policy

779
01:03:45,380 --> 01:03:52,160
and procedures is we are careful about adding new FTEs to the overall city.

780
01:03:52,540 --> 01:03:55,840
First I'm glad to hear the chief agree with your stateless maintain.

781
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:04,580
And the challenge with probably all public safety is there's a cycling of people retiring,

782
01:04:04,780 --> 01:04:09,800
people graduating up in seniority, maybe they find a new position somewhere else and

783
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:15,980
we've got to retrain them and we don't want to be the developmental league for other

784
01:04:16,620 --> 01:04:21,400
departments because there's a cost to us and that in all kinds of ways.

785
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:24,600
It's a compliment but it's a compliment we don't really want.

786
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:25,800
We want to retain our talent.

787
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:35,120
So just maintaining a skilled quality workforce with the 99 sworn officers and then there's

788
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:42,360
another 15, 20 leadership and administrative support in the police department is a lot.

789
01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:49,880
Probably director bindings department you guys are doing 250% of the work for each

790
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,740
FTE you have you know I mean there's an argument you made that some departments do need

791
01:04:54,740 --> 01:04:59,960
more headcount but I think it's a good policy in general for us to do that call.

792
01:05:06,460 --> 01:05:27,040
The last little tidbit is, I think, traditionally, what we tried to do was use six sigma and other very business wonky improvements to improve our throughput. It wasn't that long ago that we were using triplicate carbons for building permits and so forth.

793
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:29,220
that well we move to iPads and so on and so forth.

794
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:30,620
So we're doing better and better,

795
01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:32,040
but I'm sure there's more productivity

796
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,980
improvements that we can keep achieving

797
01:05:34,980 --> 01:05:36,660
so that our head count doesn't go up,

798
01:05:36,660 --> 01:05:38,660
but we're still doing a good job for the public

799
01:05:38,660 --> 01:05:40,060
and our customer service.

800
01:05:40,220 --> 01:05:42,680
So all of that aside, that's the programming thing,

801
01:05:42,920 --> 01:05:46,720
but that rushes up against the architecture

802
01:05:47,220 --> 01:05:49,300
and square footage questions.

803
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:49,680
Thanks.

804
01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:51,240
I suppose I'm Baker.

805
01:05:52,220 --> 01:05:52,800
Thank you.

806
01:05:52,860 --> 01:05:54,620
And I kind of, as I see these,

807
01:05:54,620 --> 01:06:00,800
And by the way, you know, President Keppel, Councilman Evans and myself worked with Chris

808
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:05,800
and David and Ken on this and, you know, we kind of, this was coalescing last week.

809
01:06:05,940 --> 01:06:07,680
So this is all new data for us, too.

810
01:06:08,500 --> 01:06:13,620
But as I think about it laid out this way, it's almost like us as a city and a public

811
01:06:13,620 --> 01:06:15,720
have, you know, if this is a continuum.

812
01:06:16,060 --> 01:06:19,940
And what I mean here is that what do you want to do, right?

813
01:06:20,060 --> 01:06:24,180
How much square footage do you want and you want it to be renovated space, existing space

814
01:06:24,180 --> 01:06:25,500
Do you want to have it in two different sites?

815
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:27,060
Does that just the center model?

816
01:06:27,540 --> 01:06:29,100
So you can go all the way from on the left,

817
01:06:29,640 --> 01:06:31,080
even further than option one,

818
01:06:31,200 --> 01:06:33,600
to just renovate existing space, make it work, right?

819
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:34,780
That's technically an option.

820
01:06:35,260 --> 01:06:38,380
All the way to option three, which is 90,000 square feet,

821
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:42,300
but really within option one and two,

822
01:06:42,420 --> 01:06:43,480
that's where the float is, right?

823
01:06:43,580 --> 01:06:46,400
Like the addition could be 20,000 square feet.

824
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,460
It could be 10,000, right?

825
01:06:48,620 --> 01:06:52,240
So it's, it's, and that's where I think

826
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,720
We need to figure out what we need or is you know the warm row building the right route

827
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:05,000
And so I think those are the things where now that we're seeing this really laid out those are the decisions

828
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:07,100
We have to make and hopefully relatively soon

829
01:07:10,430 --> 01:07:13,070
Thank you, and I think that's part of why normally

830
01:07:14,430 --> 01:07:17,490
This point in the year when we're getting the budget

831
01:07:18,830 --> 01:07:21,830
Ordinance is presented at the full council meeting

832
01:07:21,830 --> 01:07:28,870
tonight, we would begin with budget hearings, but we're squeezing this in because it is very important.

833
01:07:29,410 --> 01:07:35,710
We all, this body, the administration, we've all recognized we need to address particularly

834
01:07:35,710 --> 01:07:37,130
the police space issues.

835
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:42,550
So that's the priority, I think for everyone, I don't think that's a wild thing to say that

836
01:07:42,550 --> 01:07:47,130
we all want to make sure we address that, we want to make sure that we address it as we're

837
01:07:47,130 --> 01:08:01,770
going into budget season that has huge ramifications for the capital budget, whichever solution we also want to be respectful of the current owner of the Warren Road building and make sure we get them a decision in a relatively timely manner.

838
01:08:01,770 --> 01:08:17,370
So, hence why we have been working as diligently as possible as expeditiously as possible to get this high level conceptual apple stapples pulled together as quickly as we could to have this conversation tonight.

839
01:08:19,070 --> 01:08:27,670
Other questions from council members? Any questions or comments from administration? Director Mahoney?

840
01:08:29,030 --> 01:08:38,710
I know if there was at one point some analysis of how much more square footage the police department does need do you remember what that number was?

841
01:08:44,540 --> 01:08:49,000
I don't know exactly what that number is but I have it here and I can get that chair.

842
01:08:49,180 --> 01:08:56,600
Okay. And then my other question is option two there is no chance to move the annex over to City Hall in that option.

843
01:08:56,600 --> 01:09:04,200
So it does not provide enough room to move the annex operations over to City Hall.

844
01:09:06,270 --> 01:09:14,130
As the option to stands right now, it still needed the function of having the annex.

845
01:09:15,170 --> 01:09:25,330
But, you know, just like options do and discussions provoke ideas, it could be something depending

846
01:09:25,330 --> 01:09:35,290
depending on the direction, whether they could fit or not, but right now it was too much

847
01:09:35,290 --> 01:09:41,830
of a square footage to be able to move into City Hall knowing that there were all these

848
01:09:41,830 --> 01:09:47,530
other departments that needed to be worked out and to fit.

849
01:09:48,090 --> 01:09:53,410
So it almost seems to suggest that the police needed at least 16,000 square feet then.

850
01:09:53,410 --> 01:09:59,530
Yeah, I can look at the numbers. I think in total I had some total square footage of what the ideal

851
01:10:00,050 --> 01:10:06,930
Where footage would be, but that's okay. I think it may have been around that a little bit more in total.

852
01:10:09,050 --> 01:10:27,530
Mr. Director, so yeah, I had just a quick question. Do either option one or two include any additional space for the traditional administrative staff or the court? Or is that only contemplating expansion to accommodate the police department and what they currently need or might need in the future?

853
01:10:27,530 --> 01:10:32,350
So, option one that was done a couple of years ago, it really looked at every single department

854
01:10:32,350 --> 01:10:41,050
and had involved interviews with police, courts, finance, law, every department.

855
01:10:41,870 --> 01:10:48,290
And we looked at what the needs were, spaces and so really one was sort of, you know, looking

856
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:54,510
at where the space, where there are spaces within this building that weren't being used

857
01:10:54,510 --> 01:11:03,650
is efficiently and so really it it about every and so we took that same idea into option

858
01:11:03,650 --> 01:11:10,390
two to be able to get the square footage needs that we found needed to happen for the

859
01:11:10,390 --> 01:11:11,090
police department.

860
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:15,700
I hope that answered your question.

861
01:11:15,760 --> 01:11:15,940
Thank you.

862
01:11:16,100 --> 01:11:16,200
Yes.

863
01:11:16,380 --> 01:11:16,600
You're welcome.

864
01:11:17,060 --> 01:11:21,720
I think one of those things too is and it's a little hard to see in this but it is we do

865
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:27,980
You have the renderings from Webber Murphy Fox or in that shared folder, which should

866
01:11:27,980 --> 01:11:33,420
have access to where you can blow them up more easily to see the detail, but one of

867
01:11:33,420 --> 01:11:42,060
those, I think it should be in there has the sort of hatch marks of that show where current

868
01:11:42,060 --> 01:11:48,380
space on option two, where it says which things are assigned and which are sort of unassigned

869
01:11:48,380 --> 01:11:50,720
and the existing departments and those sorts of things.

870
01:11:51,040 --> 01:11:56,480
So with the idea of that isn't necessarily all police space

871
01:11:56,480 --> 01:11:59,660
or things could be reconfigured and in again,

872
01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:02,000
to say high level conceptual again,

873
01:12:02,380 --> 01:12:05,320
but also that just for the purposes

874
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:07,880
of trying to get our heads around this,

875
01:12:08,620 --> 01:12:11,340
we're talking about these sort of three options,

876
01:12:11,660 --> 01:12:13,720
but there are more than three options

877
01:12:13,720 --> 01:12:14,600
that exist in the world.

878
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:15,720
Vice President Baker.

879
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:20,860
Yeah, and to director Mahoney's point, I mean, you'd run the numbers if you the annexes

880
01:12:20,860 --> 01:12:24,540
4,000 square feet right now and you need 4,000 square feet here, you just take 4,000 square

881
01:12:24,540 --> 01:12:28,980
feet times 500 bucks square foot for new building and that would be the additional 4,000 square

882
01:12:28,980 --> 01:12:29,160
feet.

883
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:35,240
So I think it's, I don't want to oversimplify what David and Chris would do, but that's a rough,

884
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:38,580
you know, so it's in the continuum, right? It's just what we want to do.

885
01:12:43,060 --> 01:12:49,740
I would just say quickly to just again looking at that option to the addition is just kind

886
01:12:49,740 --> 01:12:51,380
of a nebulous blob right now.

887
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:55,820
And so when you're working from something that's pretty much a blank box, you have a lot

888
01:12:55,820 --> 01:12:59,060
more efficiency in design and the way things are laid out and how to get people in there.

889
01:12:59,140 --> 01:13:01,880
You do if you're working with an existing building where our constraints are going to run up

890
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:02,040
again.

891
01:13:02,260 --> 01:13:05,340
So, I mean, I certainly think there's going to be ways you're going to find efficiencies

892
01:13:05,340 --> 01:13:12,220
in that addition to be able to build there in a better, smarter way than we're looking

893
01:13:12,220 --> 01:13:14,300
I think it's some of the renovations and areas.

894
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,320
Other questions or comments?

895
01:13:24,300 --> 01:13:26,640
You want to have public comment on this topic?

896
01:13:28,500 --> 01:13:28,760
No?

897
01:13:29,980 --> 01:13:30,180
Okay.

898
01:13:31,380 --> 01:13:34,420
Last chance for questions or comments on this topic,

899
01:13:34,580 --> 01:13:36,140
because we do have another item on our agenda

900
01:13:36,140 --> 01:13:38,480
that I will move to if we do not have further.

901
01:13:38,900 --> 01:13:39,420
Once at this time.

902
01:13:40,820 --> 01:13:41,300
Yep, okay.

903
01:13:41,580 --> 01:13:42,500
Well, thank you very much.

904
01:13:43,080 --> 01:13:44,860
Gentlemen, if you want to go on with your evening,

905
01:13:45,020 --> 01:13:45,900
you're welcome to do so.

906
01:13:46,180 --> 01:13:46,800
Thank you.

907
01:13:46,940 --> 01:13:47,340
Thank you.

908
01:13:47,340 --> 01:13:54,760
Thank you very much. All right, so we do have another item on the agenda for committee of the whole

909
01:13:55,580 --> 01:13:59,300
which is our appointment to the tree education and advisory board

910
01:14:00,040 --> 01:14:07,140
task force and I'm looking at council member Evans who did some work on our behalf on this topic.

911
01:14:09,500 --> 01:14:11,340
Yeah, do um,

912
01:14:13,650 --> 01:14:19,190
executive session. Uh, it doesn't have to be, but it can be. We notice that

913
01:14:19,970 --> 01:14:21,950
We notice executive session, Marine,

914
01:14:24,810 --> 01:14:25,030
we did,

915
01:14:30,090 --> 01:14:34,030
we did, okay all right so I will make a motion

916
01:14:34,030 --> 01:14:42,270
to enter executive session for the purpose of considering a city, what is the language

917
01:14:42,270 --> 01:14:42,650
of that?

918
01:14:44,130 --> 01:14:51,310
Assistant director, the appointment of a public official, thank you very much, so that

919
01:14:51,310 --> 01:14:53,610
is my motion to enter executive session for that purpose.

920
01:14:54,850 --> 01:14:59,970
Thank you, and we do need a roll call. Yes, all right.

921
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:13,840
Okay, Evans, Marks, couple, yes, Baker, Bullock, StreetBug, Hamilton Stanner. All right, and I will include in that council staff and any relevant members of the administration.

922
01:24:16,140 --> 01:24:16,760
You and Shaker,

923
01:24:45,750 --> 01:24:49,570
suit a first. Something like. You can join me and Ryan in the same boat.

924
01:25:16,470 --> 01:25:17,690
So

925
01:25:20,990 --> 01:25:29,790
we'll exited executive session to committee of the whole and make

926
01:25:36,380 --> 01:25:38,740
a motion to enter the name

927
01:25:38,740 --> 01:25:45,240
Katie Kelliger into Resolution 2025-41.

928
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:45,800
Second.

929
01:25:46,260 --> 01:25:48,820
Motion's been made and seconded. Any discussion?

930
01:25:49,940 --> 01:25:54,860
I'd like to thank Councilmember Evans for working to interview the candidates.

931
01:25:55,820 --> 01:26:03,720
And we have incredible candidates, so really impressive, as always, the pool of candidates we have in here in liquid.

932
01:26:03,720 --> 01:26:09,100
All right, on the motion to enter the name, any further discussion?

933
01:26:09,960 --> 01:26:10,740
All those in favour?

934
01:26:11,220 --> 01:26:11,540
Aye.

935
01:26:12,320 --> 01:26:17,340
And I'll move to refer that resolution as amended favorably back to full council.

936
01:26:17,620 --> 01:26:17,780
Second.

937
01:26:18,200 --> 01:26:19,460
Motion's been made and seconded.

938
01:26:19,580 --> 01:26:20,220
Any discussion?

939
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:21,580
Hearing none.

940
01:26:21,940 --> 01:26:22,640
All those in favour?

941
01:26:22,980 --> 01:26:23,300
Aye.

942
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:24,460
And that motion passes.

943
01:26:25,140 --> 01:26:29,260
We'll take just a, with no further business, without objection, clear the hold as adjourned.

944
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:31,240
We'll take just a couple minutes to reset.

945
01:26:31,240 --> 01:26:33,060
You