[This transcript was generated automatically from audio using AI and hasn't been reviewed by a person -- it can contain mistakes, including plausible-sounding sentences that were never actually said. Treat it as a starting point, not a verbatim record.]

[3:38] We want to grab a seat. There's some over here, some over here, some back there, for those of you that are interested.
[3:51] Can we please have a roll call?
[3:57] In the gallery,
[4:04] cozy, here, and Mayor Rueda. Thank you. Next on the agenda, we have a report on the posting of the agenda. Acting clerk, could you please let us know if the agenda was posted according to the state requirements?
[4:21] The agenda was posted in a point to state requirements.
[4:26] Thank you.
[4:27] Okay, moving on.
[4:28] We have a approval of the agenda.
[4:30] Do I have any comments on the agenda or a motion for approval?
[4:35] Let's see if the microphone works.
[4:37] Is there a second?
[4:40] Okay, all in favor?
[4:41] Aye.
[4:42] Opposed?
[4:44] Great.
[4:44] Well, we're off to the start here.
[4:46] Good evening and welcome to all of you who have come to join us for this
[4:50] important discussion. Can you all hear me okay? No? All right, I'll try and talk
[4:56] but board out. Okay, we appreciate your attendance.
[5:00] It's great to see so many engaged residents. And thank you to all of those who sent emails to us in advance. I try to respond to all of those that at least I received was they came in the last hour. So thank you for sharing your thoughts on this important matter. I'd also like to thank the school district for finding this site for us. We wanted to find something that was larger than council and this was the only room that was available.
[5:26] So, my kids went to elementary school here, so it's kind of nice to be back on the other
[5:31] side.
[5:31] They were usually on the stage.
[5:35] We are going to have a bit of a different month today because we're not in council chambers
[5:40] and so we're going to deal with the technology but we've got this figured out and if you'll
[5:46] just bear with us, that would be great too.
[5:47] Okay,
[5:51] so
[5:56] we're here tonight to talk about the cycle of our housing element and just as
[6:03] a refresher, housing elements are anything new.
[6:06] The fifth cycle ran from 2013 to 2021.
[6:11] This cycle runs from 2021 to 2009.
[6:16] What is different in which why this is more prevalent or visible to the community is the requirements placed on our city have changed.
[6:27] In the last cycle, we only needed to find 16 potential sites for housing units, so 16 was doable.
[6:38] Now we have to find 199 potential unit sites plus a 15% buffer, so it's a much bigger undertaking than what we've had to do in the past.
[6:51] We've got a big crowd here. We want to hear from all of you. If you want to talk, you're going to get a chance to talk.
[6:59] And so because we've got such a big crowd, as we, as you step up, we're going to ask that to the extent possible if you could try and keep your comments to three minutes or less.
[7:09] If somebody has stated something that you also want to talk about, if you could reference that or say, diddo, but anything just so that we can be respectful of your time and trying to keep moving here.
[7:27] We know that many of you are unhappy about specific locations that are under consideration.
[7:36] I get that, we get that.
[7:40] The challenge is there is a solution that's going to make everyone happy
[7:44] and so we're trying to do the best we can to meet the requirements placed on us by Sacramento
[7:49] while taking into account the various needs of our community.
[7:54] So, let's talk a little bit about how the meeting is going to go tonight.
[7:58] We're going to have a brief presentation by staff and our consultant regarding the
[8:03] requirements and the criteria that HDD, and I can't remember what the acronym means,
[8:09] but anyway, that's the organization that oversees the housing elements and is responsible
[8:15] for approving every city's housing element.
[8:17] So we'll get a brief presentation on the criteria and the sites that are under review.
[8:25] There's really a small solution set for our city.
[8:29] We've got a built-out city and we've got a lot of open space and we've got a lot of private
[8:35] land that has de-restrictions.
[8:38] And so Gina's going to talk to us about what's within that solution set.
[8:45] Following that council members will ask clarifying questions of staff and then when those questions
[8:51] are done we're going to open up for public comment.
[8:54] As I said, if you want to speak, we're here to hear it.
[9:00] We have a standing microphone here so we don't have to pass a microphone around.
[9:05] You all don't have to line up and rush the line.
[9:09] We're going to hear everyone.
[9:10] So, you know, enjoy your seat for a while and then as the line gets to a reasonable length
[9:16] or the length that you're willing to stand for, then go ahead and join in line.
[9:22] We are all passionate about our city.
[9:25] We are all passionate about the locations and character and the sights in our city.
[9:33] We get that.
[9:34] I do ask, though, that as each person speaks, that we are respectful of them.
[9:41] That we're not fooling, we're not sharing, we're not clapping.
[9:46] If you don't have the microphone, please don't speak.
[9:49] There will be an opportunity for you to speak.
[9:52] And then finally, you know, speakers get one bite at the apple, so we ask that there are no repeat speakers.
[9:58] we do
[10:00] We are, as I said, we've got a three-minute clock timer. It's really a guideline and to kind
[10:07] of give you a sense for what's going on. I know what you're stressed about it. You can
[10:11] even go over a little bit. That's fine, but we really do want to try and be respectful
[10:17] of each other and each other's time. Our intent tonight is to make a decision on which
[10:24] sites to include in our submission to HCD, even with sites selected, and for
[10:32] women area approved by HCD, the housing element will not be final until we have
[10:39] resumed the selected sites. That is a requirement placed on our city by HCD and
[10:46] other cities like us that are laid in submitting and getting approval of their
[10:51] housing element. Concerned with HDD review and rezoning, Council has directed staff to
[11:00] provide proposals for developing objective design standards which will help us retain
[11:07] some local control over the characteristics of future building. We're doing everything
[11:13] we can to comply with state mandates while maintaining the character of our city.
[11:22] So that's
[11:22] the layout of what's going on.
[11:26] Right now, we're going to turn to staff for a staff report.
[11:30] What's going to happen here is because the screen comes down so that we're not like the
[11:34] Wizard of Oz, hide behind the screen.
[11:36] We're going to come down and sit in these chairs here.
[11:39] And then when we come back up here, that means there's five more chairs up for grass for
[11:44] people who want to have a seat.
[11:47] But carefully.
[11:52] there are still some seats up here raise your hand
[12:09] so one more time, if there is a seat next to you raise your hand, I have a gentleman there, I have a woman there, I have a chair here, I have a chair here
[12:20] Anyone else? Got any seat available? We're all friends, we're all neighbors. We can get
[12:26] cozy. Okay, we're coming down.
[13:03] And
[13:15] members of the city council, before Gina gives the presentation on the housing element of what I like
[13:23] to do tonight is like to give you a brief background of what's going on throughout the process.
[13:29] at your number 14 meeting the City Council approved the
[13:36] seminal of a partial draft not related to the size of the
[13:39] left hand and site analysis for HCD informal review. Also the
[13:49] City Council directed staff to discuss with HCD as many sites
[13:54] as possible for consideration, including previous housing
[13:58] element sites including churches. Gina's going to go into further detail regarding those sites.
[14:06] The City Council did at your regular meeting of January 23rd of 2024 discuss viable sites that
[14:15] were discussed with HCD and staff also provided a brief description of three viable sites.
[14:23] Following the discussion, the Council directed staff to schedule a special City Council meeting
[14:31] which is tonight to further analyze and or select potential sites acceptable to HCD for
[14:40] inclusion into the City's six-cycle housing element.
[14:44] The presentation will go into further detail.
[14:48] Also, as part of the site, a mixed use overlay is proposed for the site with the
[14:57] The Jansettee range of 25 to 3rd place, the Jansettee range of 25 to 3rd place, the Jansettee range of 25 to 3rd place.
[15:01] And it's being used to calculate the den cities. Objectives that kind standards will also be created, which Mayor Murdoch mentioned once the resounding process occurs. The city's commercial zone does allow the residential uses.
[15:23] Any churches that are proposed as viable sites and are included in the housing.
[15:29] will require a resumption commercial, which allows for the resident's child.
[15:37] Also, I wanted to bring to your attention Todd Leishman with BBK is on Zoom, along with Trevor Russ and his in the audience.
[15:49] And we'll be available to answer any questions.
[15:52] At this point, I'd like to hand over to Gina, who will be giving a presentation.
[15:57] Good
[16:59] evening.
[17:06] All right.
[17:07] Good evening.
[17:08] We're not getting canceled members and members of the community.
[17:16] So again, I'm going to reiterate that some of the criteria for this site's inclusion.
[17:24] I'm going to write into it.
[17:26] And this is really a recap of the meeting that occurred on January 23rd of this year.
[17:34] So, among many of the criteria that HVD considers, of course, some of these are access to high
[17:44] performing student jobs, access to amenities, available infrastructure, proximity to transit,
[17:52] and that could just mean a bus stop, doesn't have to be a high-quality bus corridor, a site
[18:00] between the size of one-half acre and 10 acres and the ability to accommodate at least 16 units.
[18:12] Other criteria are sites with obsolete uses, sites with large vacancies such as open space,
[18:21] a lot of shrubbery, large open parking spaces, parking areas, older buildings with signs of
[18:31] different maintenance sites with one owner versus many owners and
[18:40] again as we
[18:42] reiterate at every meeting there are severe consequences for non-compliance
[18:48] and the state does monitor every city to determine whether they are in compliance
[18:55] those cities that are not are reported to the attorney general and the courts can
[19:03] and imposed fines of up to $100,000 per month.
[19:07] Also, there's a lot of potential funding.
[19:11] There are plenty of grants out there
[19:14] that could potentially fund infrastructure in the city.
[19:19] The city would be ineligible for those funds.
[19:24] And last, there is a possibility of the builder's remedy
[19:29] and to, I
[19:35] think that it was brought up at the last meeting, but basically what that means
[19:40] is that a developer with a viable affordable housing project that needs certain criteria
[19:48] can come in and bypass the zoning ordinance and the general plan as long as they meet
[19:56] the affordable housing criteria set before and by the state.
[20:00] So the city would not.
[20:04] Okay. Sorry about that. I appreciate it. Thank you. Just holler like that.
[20:17] Okay. So this is a recap of the sites inventory proposed at the last city council meeting. So there were three sites that were identified in addition to a huge
[20:30] So, accessory dwelling units, we were proposing 80 over the course of the next eight years,
[20:39] so 10 per year, and the 40 single or 41 single family detach lots throughout the city.
[20:48] And I want to emphasize that those single family lots are just being proposed as they are,
[20:56] single family.
[20:56] Those were not anticipated to be rezoned.
[21:01] I don't know if that was ever made clear in the past, but just for clarification those would just be as they are.
[21:09] It's an inventory of land that is available for housing for all income levels and above moderate is an income level.
[21:18] So, site one, the Malaga Cove site, site two, the Lunata Bay site, and three, the first
[21:26] church of Christ scientists, and we'll get into those three particular sites in the next
[21:33] slide.
[21:35] So the Malaga Cove site was proposed with the overlay, a mixed use overlay of 25 to 30D
[21:45] for acre, or two parcels, that roughly equal to 0.68 acres, and they would accommodate
[21:56] at 11 low and very low and 6 moderate units. So 70, a couple units, and I'm pointing
[22:03] that out because each site that is used in the housing element that accommodates low and
[22:11] very low income units,
[22:18] much you have to accommodate at least 16 units.
[22:21] I said that before when I'm reiterating it so that it makes a little bit more sense.
[22:28] So if we try to use any density less than 25 dwellings for acre, we would not meet the
[22:36] threshold to use that site.
[22:41] Moving on to the Linada Bay Cadios building.
[22:44] This was also proposed with an overlay zone.
[22:48] It's also pump 68 acres and has the same amount of units, 11 very low and low and 6 moderate.
[22:56] And I'll take the time now to emphasize what the mix use overlay zone means
[23:07] that would allow the existing uses to continue in a mixed use fashion. The current zone,
[23:17] the commercial zone that's in the, on the books now in the city, does allow for this condition,
[23:25] allows for up to 24.9 willingness for acre mixed with commercial.
[23:32] So, the proposal was in line at the minimum entity with the city.
[23:42] And the third site that was proposed at the January 23rd meeting was the first Church of Christ scientist.
[23:51] And this is two parcels that equate to 4.68 groups.
[23:56] Now, you'll see the slide has two density ranges listed.
[24:06] So there were some options for the site because it does not have current commercial uses.
[24:15] To save time, the city could propose just one overlay zone and overlay all are used the
[24:25] same overlay zone for all sites, which would have been a 25 to 30 d per acre zone, which
[24:33] would result in 75 low and very low and 41 moderate income units, or if the city chose
[24:41] to have a separate 100% residential zone, they could choose to go with a lower density starting
[24:52] that 20 deeper acres of a range of 20 to 25 deeper acres.
[25:00] That would result in 60 low and very low and 32 moderate in computer.
[25:07] Now moving on, before I continue, I want to emphasize that any site that you see in this slideshow is really just a representation of all of the sites that we have looked at. Doesn't mean that it's going to be included automatically. It doesn't mean that anything other than we've looked at the site.
[25:30] and it has potential to accommodate the city's re-innovation.
[25:38] So we want to make sure that that was the purpose of this meeting,
[25:42] is to let the community know that together, staff,
[25:51] meet the consultant and communication with the former ad hoc committee
[25:55] and the sanitaries we looked at several sites throughout the city so that we
[26:04] were making the best choice for the community. So you may remember that we did
[26:11] look at City Hall. There's one parcel, 1.72 acres. However this is zone open
[26:20] space. We won't go into the logistics of that, but it is. At the end, we can talk
[26:28] a little bit about the open-fraze designation. But this site would yield plenty
[26:34] of units, and would have been a viable site with some rezoning that we can
[26:44] discuss a little bit more later.
[26:47] Also, we looked at the Malaga Cope area and its
[26:51] So there are really two separate areas.
[26:56] So you get the site number one, Malagicoze Plaza 1.
[27:00] It's 14 total parcels, 1.62 acres.
[27:05] The Malagicoze 2 area is 7 parcels and 1.48 acres.
[27:12] So currently there are this little spot here
[27:17] is what you already saw in the second slide. But we've also looked at the rest of the sites.
[27:27] So, oops,
[27:30] previously, in your last two housing cycles, these sites were included.
[27:39] Moving on, we looked at the St. Francis Episcopal Church site. There's one total parcel,
[27:45] So, 2.84 acres,
[27:57] we are uncovering that.
[27:59] We've seen records that are zone R1.
[28:02] We've seen records that are zone open space.
[28:05] So, that is a fact-finding mission.
[28:08] There are lots of records.
[28:13] According to the LA counter assessor,
[28:17] it's zone commercial.
[28:19] We
[28:25] did look at a six acre portion of the Palisbury United School District site, just up the
[28:35] street.
[28:36] So the entirety of that parcel is 14.87 acres, and we notice that there's six acres,
[28:44] you know, looks like roughly half, but it's a little less than half that would, there's just
[28:52] a lot of open space in symbolic fields and that would have allowed the existing buildings
[28:58] to remain. That is an open space. We also looked at a six-acre portion of PV Middle School
[29:07] and in the same condition that it would have had allowed for the school and sports field
[29:15] to remain that total size is a whopping 45.92 acres. So you see that entire site we saw this
[29:26] little tiny spot here.
[29:31] Again it's open space. We also looked at Georgia on the park. It's a 10-acre park
[29:37] And we looked at potentially just 6-8 acres.
[29:44] Don't open space.
[29:47] Again, we looked at the existing multi-family sites.
[29:52] So, there are multi-family zone RM in the Malaga Cova area.
[30:00] And in the Lunata Bay area. So, I actually, it's easy. I'm kind of pointing at it. So, there are four
[30:08] total sites in Malagico. These are the only four sites in the Malagico Reset of RN District that could
[30:20] accommodate additional units beyond what's already, so it's already built out. All these other
[30:27] parcels are built up beyond the allowable 24.9
[30:37] dwellings per acre. I think the average is about 35
[30:41] dwellings per acre for the entire,
[30:47] calculated among all the existing residential.
[30:51] And then there's only one site in the Lunata Bay area
[30:55] that would accommodate additional units.
[30:57] So, in that show, there are 11 existing units
[31:01] you would net seven new units in Malaga code.
[31:05] In Lunata Bay, there are two existing units.
[31:08] You can net two more.
[31:15] We did look at vacant parcels throughout the city
[31:21] to determine if there was any feasibility
[31:23] and rezoning to the RM zone
[31:27] because you have some large vague and property.
[31:32] So these are just examples.
[31:35] So we've got the, this particular site is 1.17 acre.
[31:43] If you rezone that to the RM zone,
[31:48] you could even, we were considering a lesser density,
[31:53] you know, instead of having 24.9,
[31:56] you could have gone to 20, and still accommodated the requirements of the state, saying it with the site.
[32:08] These are just, we're showing you examples that they're income again, reiterating these are just some of the parts are for the vacant lots,
[32:18] We're not going to show you all the vacant lots, but these are typical of many of the existing vacant single family residential lots within the city that had potential to be up zone to multi family.
[32:39] And now we're getting to the open space.
[32:40] We wanted to spend just a minute describing the process to rezone open space.
[32:51] So if we were the city made the decision to rezone an open space parcel to accommodate
[33:00] residential, it would require rezoning.
[33:04] So this would require a simple majority of voters voting, yes, on a ballot measure.
[33:15] And that would change the zone, and it would require a special election.
[33:22] However, during the October 10th meeting, it was brought up and considered.
[33:28] and due to the tardiness of the housing element and the pressure to get this done and the
[33:41] compliance schedule being almost two years behind, it was decided to table any consideration
[33:49] of re-zoning open space. And lastly, just a little bit on what these re-zoned overlay zones mean.
[34:04] Again, so there are two potential overlay zones that could accommodate the arena.
[34:14] one would be the mixed use at 25 to 30 views per acre.
[34:19] Again, the current non-residential uses could continue.
[34:25] And any other non-residential use could come in.
[34:30] It's not 100% housing.
[34:33] With a housing opportunity overlay zone,
[34:36] we would propose a lower density at a minimum of 20.
[34:41] and it doesn't even have to go up to 30 to 20 to 25 feet per acre and that would
[34:48] also allow the existing use. It's an overlay zone and that would be a hundred
[34:54] percent commercial or a hundred percent residential no commercial. So permitted
[34:58] the uses for bold.
[35:00] All of the overlay zones, in addition to what this would already be in the base zone, would be multi-family housing, supportive housing,
[35:08] single-room occupancy units, emergency shelters, and transitional housing. And the last four uses that I mentioned have already been approved in the zoning ordinance, those are required by the state.
[35:24] Again, any rezone property will be subject to objective design standards that are forthcoming
[35:33] and those we know we all have a limit of three stories, a limit of 35, high and other design
[35:45] standards to be determined. They will help shape any future development that comes in.
[35:52] The city has the authority to create these standards that are in line with the zoning
[36:05] ordinance. They just have to be able to accommodate the density that is prescribed.
[36:10] And again, the current zoning ordinance, as is infomercial, allows residential uses with
[36:19] the CUP, up to 24-point knowing, so just re-emphasizing that it's very, what we're proposing
[36:29] is very much in line with what is already existing, and that concludes the presentation.
[36:36] housing
[37:58] and community development.
[38:02] Okay, we're going to move on now to first off thank you Gina and Cheryl for the information
[38:07] that you shared with everyone and we're going to move on to council asking and clarifying
[38:13] the questions so do you want to start off Jim can everyone hear me or yes yes I'll try
[38:23] to talk really loudly so I wouldn't think Gina again for this presentation I want to
[38:27] I did before ask any questions, I just wanted to give a little background in case folks didn't understand Gina is a consultant that the city is hired council member camps at the other end and I were an ad hoc committee that worked with Gina for almost a year as we were working on towards this and she's been really a great partner.
[38:51] It's important to understand that everything she was presenting, she presented an exhaustive list of everything that is possible, and that's exactly the direction we gave her, we said.
[39:00] The state has this mandate to us. The state requires us to re-zone to support a certain amount of new housing, and our direction to her was can you go and identify all the possible sites that the state would accept.
[39:15] And so that list that she showed you, she was really showing you that exhaustive list that is exactly what we were looking for.
[39:22] In our city, that's a very short number of properties.
[39:26] If you exclude, I mean, she showed a couple of single-family lots that were large, but I think most folks would agree that that's probably not the kind of direction we would go.
[39:34] We wouldn't want to re-zone a single-family lot to support multifamily housing.
[39:40] And so we're limited to, in addition to that, we also have deed restrictions that restrict
[39:46] a number of things, and maybe there's a property throughout the city, and so that creates
[39:50] challenges also.
[39:51] We're really ultimately limited to a couple of places, and it's mostly churches and the
[39:57] a couple of commercial areas that we have.
[40:00] And so that's really what we, at this point, the city council's had many meetings about this. We've discussed this at length, and we're trying to figure out what the community wants us to do in that regard. The state requires us to submit this housing element. The state will, the State Department of Housing Community Development approves the housing element. And as long as we do not have a compliant housing element,
[40:28] and the city remains at risk to development
[40:31] that we wouldn't otherwise want.
[40:34] And I want to put that into context.
[40:37] Gina led her presentation with a slide
[40:40] where she talked about some of the risks.
[40:41] She talked about $100,000 a month fine
[40:44] that the city could have.
[40:45] And a lot of that sounds kind of abstract,
[40:47] but I want to put in to give you a very concrete example
[40:51] of the kind of thing that can happen if we don't make progress.
[40:55] We don't go to the same again
[40:56] to get a compliant housing element.
[40:58] So, two weeks ago, in Rancho Palace Verde's, they had an application under what is called
[41:04] Builders Remedy for a multi-family housing development in the vicinity of Silver Spur Elementary.
[41:16] In the middle of a single-family neighborhood, there happens to be a flat lot that happens
[41:24] to be about five acres, most of it, unbuildable because it's in a ravine, surrounded by single
[41:29] family houses on all sides. The current zoning in Rancho Palsbury's allows a single family house on that lot,
[41:39] but because they do not have a compliant housing element, the developer who purchased that for about $300,000,
[41:46] they bought the lot for next to nothing because it's not even really a great lot for a single family home,
[41:50] has submitted an application to develop four, seven story buildings on top of four story parking garages,
[42:02] which will block the views for about ten houses if it's built, and obviously it's way out of character for the neighborhood.
[42:12] And the reason I bring this up is that this is the state's, you know, we do not comply.
[42:18] We really have to comply.
[42:21] Compliance, if we don't comply, the alternative is that developers could buy, you know, a
[42:27] nice two-acre lot that, you know, on the sale of the mar and put up, you know, five stories
[42:33] or whatever they want there.
[42:35] And so I want to urge people to, as we look at, we're going to be talking about all the various
[42:41] sites that we can submit for this. Keep that in mind because our goal here is to submit
[42:47] a compliant housing element to get the state to say yep, you have complied and to follow
[42:52] the law in the state of California so that we can avoid some of these penalties that you
[42:56] have outlined and that one is one of the more submitted ones.
[43:03] The was one other point I wanted to beg I.
[43:06] It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, this gave me, but, in any event.
[43:13] Yeah, so, you know, on the, the, for those of you who don't know, just to add a little color to the comment
[43:20] that you made about areas that are zoned to O.S. or open space.
[43:24] Those are anything that was owned by the city from about sometime in the mid 80s, their
[43:29] zone to OS, it requires a ballot initiative in order to rezone them.
[43:38] Our housing element will not be deemed compliant until the zoning is complete.
[43:43] So among the reasons that we haven't considered those, besides the fact that I think most folks
[43:48] here, probably treasure their open space, is that the complexity of rezoning that is so
[43:54] high, it's unlikely that we could get that done in a reasonable amount of time.
[43:58] And you'd have to go and educate 50 plus percent of folks in convincing that this was
[44:04] the right location, and it's very hard to do.
[44:07] So with that, I'm trying to think about any questions, most of the stuff I've seen before
[44:13] I think it's really fantastic.
[44:17] I'll defer to my colleagues on questions.
[44:20] I'll probably come back with questions in a moment.
[44:23] Thank you.
[44:24] I'm going to make one more plug for anyone who wants to sit down.
[44:28] We do have these risers at the front.
[44:30] They're not the most comfortable.
[44:33] But at least the little kids might like them.
[44:36] I just want to give options.
[44:37] I apologize that there's not enough space.
[44:39] is just the largest room that the school district had available to us for this evening.
[44:44] I do have two questions, because what I liked about Gina's presentation was we asked
[44:50] her, scour the city, and tell us what possible signs there are, just do an exhaustive search.
[45:00] And I actually think there are probably a couple of areas that were in your presentation, and so I just want to clarify that. My recollection is that some of the other sites that you looked at were the city concessions, and that you found that those are also open space. And so is that correct then, another area that you did look at? Because I know residents have said, well, what about the stables, or what about some of the other areas?
[45:28] You're talking about the stable sites and yeah, it's all open space, right?
[45:36] Okay, thank you.
[45:37] And then the other thing that I've heard residents talk about is we have, particularly
[45:42] in La Nave, we currently have a couple of sections of apartment buildings, or condos, or you
[45:50] know, basically, you know, multi-family units.
[45:53] And one of the ideas that I've heard put forth is, well, why don't we just extend those?
[45:59] Right?
[45:59] We've already got apartment buildings there.
[46:01] Why don't we just extend them down the road?
[46:04] And I believe that staff looked at those and found that the adjacent sites were too small
[46:10] to fit or to meet that half acre.
[46:13] And so then you'd have to consolidate too many sites and too many owners.
[46:17] But I think you talked about that at that last meeting and that correct as well
[46:22] Right, so they would the more
[46:25] Lock consolidation comes into play and then with the small size
[46:29] And they're just invisible
[46:33] So so the point I'm trying to make is
[46:38] Council staff residents we really have tried to look under every rock we can and as Jim said
[46:44] that there's just a limited number of questions?
[46:50] I think I might be heard on this microphone yet.
[46:54] For staff, I think two terrifying questions.
[46:57] One, I've received a lot of questions around objective standards.
[47:02] And in the development of those objective standards, could you help us all understand exactly what those
[47:08] In addition to the overlay sites that they also covered, ADUs, that they involved in existing residents, what exactly do those standards cover and what do they relate to?
[47:23] So you could, well, we'll leave the ADUs out for now, but you could apply them to have a special section for existing residents if you so choose.
[47:36] But ultimately, you want to be able to design for the future.
[47:49] And you want to be able to, if somebody comes in with an SB 35 application, SB 35 is another
[47:57] bill that allows fine-right affordable housing.
[48:03] If somebody comes in and meets the criteria,
[48:05] you want to be able to say yes, I have objective design standards and here's the criterion that you need to meet.
[48:17] Let me take it one step further. We presently in our city have a process that runs through our planning commission which is not a ministerial approval.
[48:25] It involves neighborhood compatibility so that when someone's going to build a home, it involves consulting the neighbors going through a process.
[48:31] Today, I have to do that for my single family residents.
[48:36] 80 youths of specific sizes can be installed
[48:39] with ministerial approval.
[48:42] Would the objective standards allow us
[48:45] to place standards on those 80 youths so that, for example,
[48:50] if someone was building a single family residence
[48:52] that complied with all those requirements and was approved?
[48:56] Someone couldn't come in and just build a three-story
[48:58] A.D.U. and their backyard and block my view that's in front of
[49:03] me.
[49:05] A.D.U. there are new laws with A.D.U.s that we probably don't want to get into right now.
[49:14] But...
[49:15] So the singular question is, can objective design standards be applied on A.D.U.?
[49:22] With limitations. Yes.
[49:36] I just wanted to make one more come because I remembered what I was thinking earlier.
[49:42] I want to make sure that folks understand that the exercise that we're going through
[49:45] is up to planning and zoning exercise only which means that for example if we are
[49:55] commercial building for an overlay zone that would confer additional
[50:00] No right on the private property owner. It does not mean that the private property owner is obligated
[50:29] We have to speak to how many units can be built at various income levels, ranging from very low income all the way to market rate.
[50:42] But the actual zoning that happens does not specify anything related to income monetization.
[50:51] So, for example, if we were rezoning, if we put an overlay that was, as part of our housing
[50:59] on, it was intended to provide low-income housing in one area, the private property owner
[51:05] would actually be able to use that to build market rate apartments if they wanted to.
[51:10] So, to understand these things, because it may inform your opinion of what the downstream
[51:16] extreme effects of the overlay would be.
[51:20] Are that church representative here at the same time?
[51:23] We're still in the council questions.
[51:25] He'll just hold you.
[51:26] You'll get an opportunity to speak.
[51:29] Any other council questions?
[51:34] It seems like a missing piece is the zoning of the St. Francis
[51:40] Episcopal Church.
[51:41] Where are we with resolving that?
[51:50] No, the current zone.
[51:52] The unofficial map will the official map shows it as residential R1.
[52:01] There's another map that says it's open space, and there's the CUNY assessor that says it's commercial.
[52:18] I assume it was not over at the O.B. OS designation was created in whatever 1984-1985.
[52:27] It was created by a city where it was passed in the 80s and it specifically said it would
[52:34] to me to apply to properties that were owned at the time, so it wasn't
[52:38] that it was owned by the city, it wasn't owned by the city at the time.
[52:41] No, it did.
[52:41] Probably not in a way.
[52:43] It is residential.
[52:44] Yeah.
[52:45] It is residential.
[52:45] It's like open space.
[52:48] Well, and there is a small portion as you saw the properties not not
[52:53] regular.
[52:54] There is definitely an indentation of something that is open space, okay?
[53:00] So does it have, so if it's R1, then does it have a CUB on it?
[53:08] I don't know when it was built. It may have been built before the city was incorporated in which kids, yeah, I mean, you know.
[53:14] Speaking of the playgrounds.
[53:19] Well, the playgrounds.
[53:21] It is open to the big playgrounds, let's see.
[53:25] The playgrounds.
[53:28] The playground is actually a parkland's encouragement, but that's not the subject.
[53:37] Yes, yes, I'm not going to remind people. David, did you have any questions you wanted to ask?
[53:44] Okay, so David says Jim covered all his questions.
[53:52] One of the things that you also have to understand, picking up on what Jim was talking about earlier about,
[53:58] An owner has to have a desire to re-develop or sell or somehow take an action.
[54:07] And they still have the opportunity to use market rate rent rent rent rentals if that's what they choose to do.
[54:16] With the cost of land in our city, the return on investment for a developer or a person that's interested in investment property
[54:25] makes it extremely, extremely difficult to make the numbers work on a lot of these projects.
[54:33] And I think we have to keep that also in the back of our mind.
[54:38] Okay, we're going to move to the next portion of the agenda which is public comment.
[54:43] So I know a lot of you have questions.
[54:46] We need to keep this orderly so that everyone can hear.
[54:50] So we've got a microphone here at a podium.
[54:53] and if whoever wants to ask a question, you can go ahead.
[55:00] Form a short line, and then we'll just keep listening to people's comments as the answer I did mean questions. It was comments. It's public comment.
[55:30] Thanks.
[55:31] Hello, my name is Sharon McCandless.
[55:33] I'm the Director of Town and Country Nurses School,
[55:36] which is located on the St. Francis Church property here.
[55:41] Town and Country Nurses School has been in business for the last 65 years,
[55:45] in the Palisbury's community.
[55:48] For the last 40 years, we've been in Palisbury's states,
[55:50] serving mostly in Palisbury's state's residence.
[55:54] Last spring, when the 2023 April housing element draft was released,
[55:58] It refers to the St. Francis Church site as an underutilized church property.
[56:03] But not only is this church site run by St. Francis Church, but it's also utilized by
[56:10] Town and Country Nursery School five days a week, seven hours a day.
[56:14] Between the St. Francis Church property and Town and Country, this site is utilized seven
[56:19] days a week.
[56:20] Sites included in the housing element must mean specific criteria established by the HCD.
[56:26] One being, sites with obsolete uses and or vacancies, large open parking areas and underutilized areas.
[56:35] The St. Francis Church site obviously does not meet this criteria.
[56:39] Town and Country has leased the educational building at St. Francis Church for the last 22 years.
[56:45] Our lease is up in 2020 and we're currently working on a lease that would extend over the next 15 years.
[56:52] This shows the great relationship that we have with the church.
[56:55] Also, our school employs 40 staff members,
[56:59] which makes it one of the larger employers in California to the states.
[57:02] We educate 190 children there each year.
[57:06] I have done my research on the history of the housing element document,
[57:10] and current Californian bills that have passed.
[57:12] And I've talked to other city attorneys about how California has made
[57:16] a very difficult for cities to get the housing element document approved.
[57:19] So I do want to say to the council, I do empathize with what you're all going through.
[57:25] But we all have our job and my job is to and my priority is to make sure this is
[57:32] beloved preschool town and country continues to exist on the St. Francis Church side
[57:37] for many more years to come and is able to carry on the town and country philosophy,
[57:41] educating children and parents to make the world a better place.
[57:45] As
[57:53] a result, we can please, sorry, just not clap and not have outbursts, it'll just keep things moving.
[57:58] I agree, I agree with my commitments.
[58:01] Putting St. Francis Church on the list of sites that will be re-zoned from the
[58:05] Slays Overlay zoning will make St. Francis Church a target in the future.
[58:10] The state may decide in the future that these sites may have to sell or redevelop,
[58:14] or maybe even worse, imminent domain.
[58:17] So we do not want to run that risk.
[58:19] This unique special preschool is generational.
[58:23] Many of the parents that enroll their children there have attended there as well.
[58:27] We have been around for the last 65 years,
[58:29] and I want to make sure that we are still in existence 65 more years to come.
[58:33] Please do consider not putting St. Francis Church property on the list of sites of the housing element.
[58:38] Thank you.
[58:40] Thank you.
[58:41] next. Before I begin I would like to know if there's a representative from the
[58:47] first Church of Christ's Scientistia. Is there anyone here from the first
[58:53] Church so there on your list that they're not here? Okay great wonderful.
[59:01] Somebody here? Okay great I'd like to speak to you afterwards. Thank you. Hi my name
[59:09] Lisa Turing, and I live on Ponderous Selain, which is across the street from the
[59:15] first Church of Christ scientist. We just learned about this three days ago
[59:21] through a friend of mine who lives on Rolling Ridge Road, which is Raine Rancho
[59:25] Palsfordes. Now why aren't ends? Then there's also Rolling Meadows Road. We have
[59:32] spoken with residents also in Palsfordes' States next to this proposed project.
[59:38] none of us were informed by the city at all about your intentions. This has
[59:44] tremendous ramifications for the value of our property. I have heard that our
[59:48] property could decrease in value by about a third depending on the size of
[59:54] building that goes up. The people that can be transitional.
[1:00:00] This means that there could be criminals and drug addicts. This is not a corner that is even for multi-unit housing. It's a small residential section, mostly in our side of the street. We have 15 feet between our homes for the most part. We have larger spaces and rolling those the states. This thing, this is a monstrosity at a corner that has horrific traffic problems to begin with.
[1:00:28] I do not understand why it was all of a sudden put on the table in January and none of us were
[1:00:33] even notified by you. Were cities notified? Did you notify Roland L. States? Did you notice
[1:00:39] the five Rancho Palace forties? I did, this is an embarrassed mature city that you best
[1:00:45] to let us know that you're even considering this. And I'd like to know out from this church,
[1:00:52] whether or not they intend to sell. Now, first church of Christ scientists sold after telling
[1:00:57] residents up in Volvedere, which is a suburb of San Rafael, they said that they
[1:01:03] were going to sell and then they turn around and they sell sold. And so I'm
[1:01:09] very concerned the state is allowed to put up to 250 units on some of these
[1:01:14] larger sites. They only can have to put in much parking. This is unreal that you
[1:01:20] You guys are accepting this, and we need to sue the state.
[1:01:24] There's no reason for it to say that it's absolutely absurd for the palace for the
[1:01:30] peninsula for goodness' sake.
[1:01:32] We have residents here who have lived here for 50 plus years like myself.
[1:01:38] I don't know why you're bending over and how telling just Sacramento of all places.
[1:01:44] But I wish that you guys would show some function and do something about this.
[1:01:48] Gina, I'm sure you're a lovely consultant, but it would have been nice if you got around to the neighborhoods and asked the neighbors what they thought.
[1:01:55] There are three houses on the corner.
[1:01:57] We're not going to keep this personal place.
[1:01:59] Okay, I guess that.
[1:02:01] But if you guys did not go around and consult us, and if you think that we're going to take this lying down, think again.
[1:02:13] We're going to come church, town and country, and sacred sites.
[1:02:16] Thank you.
[1:02:17] I'm real.
[1:02:18] Thank you.
[1:02:18] That's a struggle landmark.
[1:02:27] I'm kind of glad that I'm getting to go up front a little bit, because I think that
[1:02:32] people should be reminded that you all live here in palace verties, you're all volunteers,
[1:02:37] you're all unpaid, you all care what happens to the community because many of you are
[1:02:43] going to be living near these sites.
[1:02:45] So I want to thank you, you can be with your family, you can be having dinner, you can be
[1:02:50] relaxing, which most nights you're working. I'm at home relaxing with my family. So I want
[1:02:56] you all to know that you're very appreciated. So thank you for that. And I hope that the
[1:03:02] people after me will remember that you're part of our community, that you live here, that
[1:03:06] you do care. With that being said, I don't see our city manager here. Does anybody know?
[1:03:13] She is paid, correct? So I'm not sure why she's not present. I would have liked to hear
[1:03:18] from her, you know, part of her comments.
[1:03:23] The next thing that I'd like to say is that I have had a little experience in construction
[1:03:28] and I realized that the smaller the lot is, and the fewer, excuse me, the fewer units
[1:03:37] that you can put on a lot, the more expensive it will be for a builder, so I would think
[1:03:42] that maybe we could focus on smaller lots with less doors that can be built to make it more
[1:03:47] more expensive for builders so that they won't have that incentive to go in and build
[1:03:54] a huge complex which they could make more money on.
[1:03:57] Thank you very much.
[1:04:01] Thanks.
[1:04:05] Hello.
[1:04:05] My name is Julie Heiden and I am the Assistant Director for Town and Country Nursery School.
[1:04:09] I would like to thank the Honorable Mayor Murdoch and City Council members for this opportunity
[1:04:15] to offer my opinion and insight in this very important issue.
[1:04:18] As you know, Town and Country Nursery School is located on the St. Francis Church property and St. Francis has been identified as an underutilized church site.
[1:04:29] The term underutilized, confused me when the minute I heard it, the term underutilized is defined as to utilize less than fully or below the potential use.
[1:04:42] This property certainly does not fit that definition.
[1:04:45] I assure you that this property is, in fact, highly utilized.
[1:04:51] I invite all of you to show up any weekday morning to see for yourself just how utilized this property is.
[1:04:58] my question
[1:05:00] You is exactly when was this property assessed and who deemed it to be underutilized? If any of you have spent any amount of time on the St. Francis and town and country, nursery school campus, you would know that the property is filled with families coming and going throughout the day, dropping their children off, picking their children up, the property is consistently buzzing with the sounds of our children laughing and playing. If anything, this property is overutilized.
[1:05:29] I think the 190 children that are currently in attendance at Town of
[1:05:34] Country as well as the thousands of alumni would agree. I would also like to add
[1:05:40] that our current location of the St. Francis Church property is in very close
[1:05:44] proximity to the Palis Verdes Police Department. Having them close by for the safety
[1:05:49] of our children and the nature surrounding us provides a campus for childhood
[1:05:55] of learning that is unmatched anywhere in South Bay.
[1:05:59] Lastly, I keenly aware that the church,
[1:06:03] along with town and country, utilize the property
[1:06:05] for the following activities.
[1:06:07] Regular church services, Sunday school sessions,
[1:06:11] various community support meetings,
[1:06:14] antique fairs, weddings, funerals, family events,
[1:06:18] parenting classes, weekend family days.
[1:06:21] is I can go on and on, but I think you get the idea.
[1:06:25] It's difficult to put a value on the services provided
[1:06:28] by St. Francis Church and Town and Country Nursery School.
[1:06:31] Our request is that if you truly believe
[1:06:34] that this property is underutilized,
[1:06:36] please provide the data that supports that conclusion.
[1:06:40] And if you still believe the property is underutilized,
[1:06:43] I will plan on seeing you tomorrow
[1:06:44] during morning preschool drop off.
[1:06:47] Thank you for your time and your consideration.
[1:06:49] Thank you.
[1:06:53] Thank you for your time. My name is Chincham Reddison. My husband, Chris, was raised in
[1:06:58] Pellarsbury, the States. He and I also raised our family here. Although our children attended
[1:07:04] new horizons, many of our friends were lucky enough to sit on the Aristotelian country.
[1:07:09] It had and it still has a wonderful reputation by both its look, by both parents and the children.
[1:07:16] We are so pleased our grandson will be going to school there soon.
[1:07:20] My in-laws were very instrumental in building and growing a St. Francis Church.
[1:07:26] My husband and his brother attended church and Sunday school there as did our children.
[1:07:31] St. Francis has met so much to so many generations.
[1:07:35] It hosted many events and it does good work in the community as an example which I happen
[1:07:41] to help with as the blue bin.
[1:07:43] We accept donations from the community and we distribute them to places like Beacon House,
[1:07:48] St. Luke's, Salvation Army, St. Francis, etc.
[1:07:52] We get so many wonderful children's clothing from the generous parents of town and country
[1:07:57] and we send it to the varying eating and deserving families at Camp Pelton.
[1:08:04] I implore you to take San Francis off your list and let both these fine institutions continue
[1:08:10] to serve the community for years to come.
[1:08:11] Thank you. Thank you. Before I next speaker, I want to introduce that our city manager, Elaine
[1:08:18] Jayne, has joined us. So for those of you that haven't met her or haven't seen her,
[1:08:24] that's who's joined us next to the city attorney. He's going. Good evening Madam Mayor, members
[1:08:30] of the city council and staff. My name is Clara Duramm Reid. I am a resident of Paulus
[1:08:37] Verdes and a former planning commissioner and run to Paulus Verdes. I understand that
[1:08:41] And at this evening we're talking about summoning and I understand the difficult task
[1:08:45] you all have here and the concern, the very valid concern about the businesses and the
[1:08:52] residents of Palisburg as the states.
[1:08:54] But I want to share with you that I'm very sure that the rest of the California cities
[1:08:58] have those same concerns.
[1:09:00] I have been hearing from many people and I understand that there is a lot of construction going
[1:09:04] on specifically because of the builder's remedies and while I don't want to see that, I would
[1:09:09] I would like to find out if I'm sure you all know about the League of California cities whose mission it is to maintain a local control over the zoning, which Sacramento has now seen to try to demolish that and build a lot of units here.
[1:09:28] So my question is, has the city attorney and the city contacted other cities in California
[1:09:35] to come together and to bring a claim or a lawsuit against the state of California for this forced resounding?
[1:09:44] And well, okay, so I
[1:09:49] understand that Huntington Beach has dug its heels in and rightfully so
[1:09:55] they have decided not to move forward with any ADUs and
[1:10:00] The state sued them, but they fought back three days later than while their own lawsuit. Now, I understand that we may not have enough money here in the city to bring our own claim, but I think that if we join in with other California cities, other city attorneys, it can be much more feasible financially to go against Sacramento and return that zoning back to the local people to the city here and to all the good people right here. So thank you very much.
[1:10:31] Hello,
[1:10:36] good evening. My name is Mike Spaldingen. I grew up right here in PV. I've
[1:10:43] teacher peninsula high school like each physics. I run the advent program there. My wife
[1:10:48] also works in the PV district. She's assistant principal at PVIS. We have three incredible
[1:10:54] kids and I'm here to speak tonight on behalf of St. Francis Church and how it's being
[1:10:59] it was labeled as an underutilized space.
[1:11:02] I just want to share with you that St. Francis Church is a very, very vibrant community.
[1:11:09] It's a very active community.
[1:11:11] My wife and I started attending there about 15 years ago and simply put, we chose St.
[1:11:17] Francis specifically because of the incredible community that it is.
[1:11:22] In my years of St. Francis, I've been on the vestry, on the board.
[1:11:27] I served as junior warden kind of oversight facilities there work with town and country an incredible group
[1:11:34] I've enjoyed helping to cook many meals for all our church events
[1:11:39] I've organized build days with Habitat for Humanity where our church members go out and help build homes for
[1:11:45] those in need
[1:11:47] And just attended so many of the events that our church put on puts on each year so to keep this brief
[1:11:53] St. Francis were an enormously vibrant community, it's a place, it's my
[1:11:59] consider, my spiritual home, and I love I love going there, and I know many
[1:12:04] people in the church community feel the same. Thank you so much. Thank you,
[1:12:12] yep
[1:12:14] I'm Julian Salinas. My name's Julian Salinas and I'm gonna let the kids do the
[1:12:20] talking who will prove very much so that Saint Francis Church is utilized.
[1:12:25] Yes.
[1:12:26] Go ahead, Stella.
[1:12:28] I don't like to attend because I like to love it.
[1:12:33] She doesn't want to town in the country to change because she loves it, and it's her
[1:12:36] school.
[1:12:41] I do not want to town in the country to change, change, change for my little sister.
[1:12:52] Well, thank you for joining us this evening.
[1:12:55] My
[1:13:01] name is Devin O'Toole and my son, Dylan O'Toole, went to town and country two years ago and my daughter, Maya O'Toole, will be attending town and country next fall.
[1:13:13] And town and country is an amazing school. It really is truly a magical, beautiful experience for the children.
[1:13:21] And by no means is St. Francis Church underutilized because there are hundreds of people going in and out of that property on a daily basis, and it provides some substantial impacts to the whole community.
[1:13:35] I don't know what our life would be like without it, and I hope that's not an option going forward. I think that the committee should focus on other properties, open spaces and other underutilized properties that are truly underutilized instead of focusing on this at all.
[1:13:49] I think it shouldn't even be an issue right now, so thank you.
[1:13:52] Thank you.
[1:13:56] Peterson, when I thank you for including in your high priorities the design, the objective
[1:14:06] criteria, and I think that has an urgency, you've told us about that new proposal that
[1:14:15] Rancho Palas Verdes is having to contend with,
[1:14:19] and it's simply horrifying to think
[1:14:22] of seven story buildings in a ravine.
[1:14:28] So it brings to mind the importance of safety
[1:14:33] in those objective criteria.
[1:14:36] We know that we have fire safety concerns,
[1:14:41] we have flood safety concerns
[1:14:43] that we're all aware of right now.
[1:14:46] So I have a question for our city attorneys, is there anything legally that prevents us
[1:14:53] from including safety criteria in the objective criteria?
[1:15:01] He's shaking his head, no. Okay. So, I urge you again, hoping that as you work on the objective criteria that you also include safety along with those important design criteria that we all want to see happen. Thank you. Thank you.
[1:15:26] I'm Joan Davidson. I've been active in this community for a long time, and I'm a school board, et cetera. I just so want everyone to understand
[1:15:34] that the city is the messenger.
[1:15:37] Please don't kill the messenger.
[1:15:39] These all these state laws started during COVID
[1:15:42] and they'll round the mayor down to each community.
[1:15:45] This was coming, he started our neighborhood voices
[1:15:49] at the ballot initiative.
[1:15:51] If you want the city to be able to save in the state,
[1:15:54] no thanks, then you have to pass this initiative
[1:15:58] and gave out a flyer to everyone in this room for a reason.
[1:16:02] because if the city doesn't submit their application then they can be just as
[1:16:08] horrified as they are in our PV because builders remedy takes effect. Builders
[1:16:14] remedy is what's allowing the developer to put in that project and silver spurt
[1:16:20] can in. We don't want that in the city and then on deep valley drive they're
[1:16:25] trying to build I'm calling it the New York City apartment complex on deep
[1:16:30] Valley Drive, where it was a prior landslide.
[1:16:34] I'm hoping it cost them $100 million to try to even think about this, because we always
[1:16:39] use the library.
[1:16:40] So Dawn told us to come and sit down because we're all neighbors.
[1:16:43] We are all neighbors.
[1:16:44] We've lived here a very long time, most of us, and we get it, but I don't think everyone
[1:16:49] understood that for three years, I have been working on this with others.
[1:16:54] My Griffith has California Studies for Local Control and he started that two years ago
[1:17:01] I've been working with him and I've been in the catalyst group in Northern California.
[1:17:05] We're all together on this.
[1:17:06] Every city is having the same horrifying problem.
[1:17:10] Our city is small, we're trying to find a place for everything.
[1:17:13] So they're doing their best in my opinion, but my kids went to town in the country, my great
[1:17:20] kids have gone there.
[1:17:21] I love it there.
[1:17:23] I know you're struggling, and I'm sorry that you have to struggle for this, but our city
[1:17:28] was built out in 1923 and planned out.
[1:17:31] I don't know what we could do.
[1:17:32] And someone said, why don't we do Sacramento?
[1:17:34] RPD tried.
[1:17:35] They joined other cities.
[1:17:37] They lost.
[1:17:37] They lost their money.
[1:17:38] It's gone.
[1:17:39] And we're waiting for the ruling from Judge Curtis Kim on the Senate Bill 910 hearing for
[1:17:44] charter cities which have more rights than we do as a general law city.
[1:17:49] So that would suit that Judge Kim's foster and give his judgment within the next week or two.
[1:17:56] We'll see if they prevail.
[1:17:58] Senate Bill 9's lit every single family law in the state of California so you can bill two or more.
[1:18:03] Think about your dream.
[1:18:05] It's disgusting, it's horrible, Sacramento is a problem, not to counsel.
[1:18:09] Join our neighborhood voices, get it on the balance, we can all say no.
[1:18:14] Thank you.
[1:18:14] Hi
[1:18:18] there, my name is Katie Callahan, I've lived in Palsbury's States and moved to
[1:18:24] Rancho Palsbury's to get a larger view. I am one of those neighbors that are
[1:18:29] being affected by Builders Remedy. Literally behind my house, that is the view
[1:18:36] I wanted and the city view. Jacques Elise, who's the developer, has utilized Builders
[1:18:42] remedy in order to submit this application, which is an
[1:18:47] preliminary process at our PV, and it's affecting not 10
[1:18:51] homes. We have about 48 around the canyon and 244 in total in
[1:18:58] my neighborhood. He is building four or proposing a build at
[1:19:01] 482 units. So almost twice the size of my neighborhood is
[1:19:06] what he wants to build in a canyon. So my, what I needed to
[1:19:11] do is to understand the process and what was explained to me is that the housing element
[1:19:17] which the city is trying to get passed is basically a report card that we as a city have
[1:19:23] to get to this data California saying oh you want how many affordable pieces of housing
[1:19:30] 647 which is what they want from our PV. Well this is how we're going to do it. You submit
[1:19:35] it. If they don't like it they give it back to the city and you have to revise it.
[1:19:41] This housing element happens every six years.
[1:19:45] It's not you, it happens every six years.
[1:19:48] Our PV is two years behind a six-year cycle.
[1:19:51] You guys are behind two years in a six-year cycle.
[1:19:55] So this is going to continue to happen.
[1:19:57] And the scary thing is...
[1:20:00] The housing element doesn't get passed. We're not passed on our PV. You guys are not passed in PVE. We are susceptible to these predatory developers who are coming in and doing Wajjah Ikej wants to do in our canyon. And it doesn't have to be a vacant land. What he has done in the past and what he is doing now is building on one small little parcel like your own home, 32 units. And it was passed.
[1:20:30] He actually sued that just like you guys, the neighborhood was appalled because it's in the middle of single family homes
[1:20:37] He bought this parcel, submitted this application, the neighborhood sued him. He turned around
[1:20:43] sued them back because he's backed by Yimbi. Yes, in your backyard, this organization is strong, and they backed him up and he won.
[1:20:53] So what I'm saying is that you have to work with the city to get the housing element passed.
[1:20:58] They are not your enemies, they are only doing what the state is mandating them to do.
[1:21:05] Their hands are tied, you guys need to work with the city to pass your housing element.
[1:21:11] So you keep these predatory developers away from your precious PDE as I'm trying to do with
[1:21:17] our PDE.
[1:21:18] So we created a chapter from neighborhood voices, which is neighborhood voices of Silver Spur.
[1:21:24] And I would encourage you guys to do the same.
[1:21:26] Thank you.
[1:21:28] I'm
[1:21:31] going to take it down to be a little bit more specific.
[1:21:37] If that's the consultant repeatedly stated at the last city council meeting, the palace
[1:21:43] rate of stays was already 90% developed, then not a Bay is at 100%.
[1:21:49] I want to talk about the patio building.
[1:21:52] The patio building serves as an emergency hub and communication tower for all of lower
[1:21:59] and we cannot afford to lose it.
[1:22:03] The patio building accommodates parking for its current customers
[1:22:07] and we cannot afford to lose it.
[1:22:11] The patio building generates jobs and services critical to
[1:22:15] not a bay and we cannot afford to lose them, especially
[1:22:19] the hardware store.
[1:22:21] The patio building sits in a tight, tiny horseshoe
[1:22:26] that cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, handle more density.
[1:22:33] That consultant presented some erroneous information into the staff report about the
[1:22:41] constraints of the decaying infrastructure and the minimal leases, etc. of our situation.
[1:22:50] That's it's untrue and as Diana so brilliantly pointed out and all the speakers of the last meeting were I thought wonderful and really presented the truth about the patio building and what great shape it's in.
[1:23:05] As I recall, one air stated that the last meeting there are 19 partners in the family.
[1:23:11] So, it's not one-hour owner to remove the patio building from and so that should remove
[1:23:21] it from density consideration because I understand that's a constraint not to have more than
[1:23:25] one owner.
[1:23:27] The recent Maui fire, fires, highlights our own severe fire zone safety dilemma and we cannot
[1:23:35] handle additional density as you all know.
[1:23:39] Thank you very much.
[1:23:45] Good evening. My name is Tony Graber. I was actually born in this community and raised my three children
[1:23:51] and I personally found my way in my first childhood out in country nursery school.
[1:23:55] Hey, is Tony, could you please get closer to my phone for the people in the back?
[1:23:59] Yes, thank you.
[1:24:01] My name is Tony Graber and I have raised my three children here and followed my first one to
[1:24:08] town in country nursery school. Where I worked, I am the retired director and I worked there
[1:24:14] for 35 years. I understand what a difficult task you have in front of you. But I also support
[1:24:23] town and country and airfee school and believe along the St. Francis. These are two of the
[1:24:28] most important community institutions that we have in our community.
[1:24:35] I want to make
[1:24:36] you wear three important reasons why I believe that you need to find a different site
[1:24:40] and St. Francis Church. First, the site is fully utilized as you have heard, and we do have
[1:24:48] 190 children every year coming through our school. Secondly, young families in
[1:24:55] Alice Verde's need excellent preschool education for their children.
[1:25:00] And where would that take place if we lose our beloved town and country? TNC has provided this
[1:25:07] essential service for the last 65 years, graduating 7,000 young students. That total is more than half
[1:25:17] of the current population of Palisbury's estates by the 2022 count. Town and country is an indispensable
[1:25:27] multigenerational educational community of current families and alumni, many of
[1:25:32] whom are here tonight to remind you of the impact of your decision and what it
[1:25:37] could do to them and importantly for the future children of Palis Verdes. By a
[1:25:42] show of hands can I so ask people who are related to talent country to raise
[1:25:46] their hands.
[1:25:49] Thank you very much. Finally, there is no other romantic lighting.
[1:26:04] Finally, there is no alternate site, which could house town and country within this geographical
[1:26:11] area. Since 1958, town and country has been located in five different sites, Portuguese
[1:26:18] Bend, the LA Presbytería before that site became St. Peter's by the sea, Chadwick School,
[1:26:25] Marguerite School and now St. Francis. Our previous moves have been
[1:26:30] necessitated because our space was needed by the property owners much like
[1:26:33] what is currently feels like it's happening here. We have been pilgrims since
[1:26:39] our beginning but we and our families have believed so strongly in our school and
[1:26:43] the values it provides that we have worked together tirelessly to find each new
[1:26:49] site. We clearly understand the risks of losing our home. When the school
[1:26:54] Districts reclaimed Margate for their use in 2000. Town and country did an exhaustive
[1:27:00] search for a new site. Within PDE, Rolling Hills of States, RPV and even adjoining Redondo
[1:27:08] Beach and Torrance. St. Francis was the only place that was willing or had the space to
[1:27:14] accommodate a school of our size. Our educational philosophy is beautifully matched with
[1:27:21] our location and environment. Safe Francis is both the perfect and the only site available.
[1:27:27] It provides adequate indoor and outdoor space and supports our active, confident and capable
[1:27:33] young learners. This is personal for our children, our families, our staff, and our alumni.
[1:27:40] Please understand the value that Town and Country Nursery School brings and wants to continue
[1:27:45] providing to the children and families of Carlos Verdes for generations to come and ensure
[1:27:51] our future by removing St. Francis from your list and choosing an alternate site for
[1:27:57] your low-income housing.
[1:27:59] Thank you very much.
[1:28:17] So the audience, the council,
[1:28:23] my name is Deborah Poll and for 25 years I lived on Roning
[1:28:28] Ridge Road, which is directly adjacent to the Christian Science Church, located at Via
[1:28:37] Campusina near Palisburg's Drive, North. The city had cited this property for the
[1:28:44] erection of a 116-unit apartment building, which is if that's done, would exponentially
[1:28:53] devide my single family home as well as the residents of other residents of
[1:29:03] Rolling Ridge Road is that you remove the property that site from your list
[1:29:18] especially since it is directly adjacent to me. My
[1:29:31] cursory review of the House
[1:29:33] development plan shows that it requires the building of 199 housing units in PDE.
[1:29:41] PDE sites the Christian Science Church property adjacent to me as appropriate for the erection
[1:29:51] of this apartment unit, apparently in response to the development of housing and community
[1:29:58] other.
[1:30:19] And I know that I, and at least one other resident of Rolling Ridge Road, were the victims
[1:30:27] of residential burglaries in the very recent past.
[1:30:32] The city can comply with the state's mandate as ridiculous as it is even if it removes
[1:30:39] the church property from the site while adhering to its long-held general plan and zoning
[1:30:47] laws.
[1:30:48] The general plan is designed to preserve the quality of life and it sets guidelines for
[1:30:56] are the areas among others of open spaces, housing,
[1:31:03] scenic highways, safety, noise,
[1:31:07] and most importantly, neighborhood compatibility.
[1:31:12] A 116 unit apartment building directly adjacent to me
[1:31:18] and the other residents of Rolling Ridge Road
[1:31:21] is not consistent or compatible with the policies written in the city's general plan,
[1:31:29] especially as they relate to neighborhood compatibility.
[1:31:35] Indeed, deep restrictions can hold by the city of Palisburg and
[1:31:40] the states prevents PVE from development of these multi-family housing on this property
[1:31:47] that's directly adjacent to me.
[1:31:50] This would be offensive and probably actionable to which the residents of a rolling bridge rose and the Church object.
[1:32:02] I know my time is running out but just give me one more minute.
[1:32:06] Another goal of the city's general plan is to maintain low density with a predominantly single family residential pattern.
[1:32:14] building a 116 unit apartment across the street from me is inconsistent with
[1:32:23] that goal. A primary focus of the housing element plan is also to protect
[1:32:30] existing residential neighbors and to preserve the quality of the existing
[1:32:35] living environment.
[1:32:41] So where
[1:32:54] any of you live and I don't need to know it for my
[1:32:59] last point that
[1:33:03] none of you would want to live next door to a 116 unit apartment
[1:33:11] building that would destroy the neighborhood compatibility of your home.
[1:33:19] Thank you.
[1:33:20] All comments, all we ask is that you give us the same consideration.
[1:33:27] Thank you for listening to me.
[1:33:29] Thank you.
[1:33:40] I'm Debbie Jones, I live on Pulse Verde's Drive West,
[1:33:43] and I moved to this community for all the reasons
[1:33:46] that people are here so emphatically describing.
[1:33:51] Most of us are here because we don't like the proposed sites.
[1:33:56] What we need to understand is that the draconian state legislator
[1:34:02] eat us.
[1:34:04] They need to be changed.
[1:34:06] If they're not changed, we will be continuously
[1:34:09] this week fighting this battle.
[1:34:12] The council was just talking about new aid,
[1:34:15] I won't repeat many of the things that have already been said,
[1:34:17] and I want to thank the council for an excellent summary
[1:34:21] of what's been going on.
[1:34:24] You know, one of the other things is the council brought up
[1:34:27] were the new aid you laws,
[1:34:29] which we certainly don't want to get into this evening,
[1:34:32] because that's once again,
[1:34:33] another state legislature heated.
[1:34:36] Mr. McGowan did emphasize that none of this building would be happening unless landowners
[1:34:43] sell their land, but you can imagine how the developers can incentivize for people to
[1:34:52] sell their land.
[1:34:55] We cannot allow the state legislature to send down
[1:35:02] We must
[1:35:08] approach the ballot initiative with this same furver. Please, donate, support our neighborhood voices.
[1:35:20] Our neighborhood voices.com, you can get all the information. We must approach the ballot initiative with the same furver. Our council is doing the best they can.
[1:35:32] But we are dealing with draconian edicts that are being dropped down from the state, and we have to address it as a community and as people that live in this city and this state.
[1:35:45] So please, please support the ballot initiative and get involved however you can.
[1:36:03] He might not you. He might not you.
[1:36:05] I'm just too tall, I'm sorry. In the last time I was here, I was actually dressed up and
[1:36:11] dragged for the one out of a talent show circa 1996. Mr. Herman, and then before that,
[1:36:17] we were the Beatles and then the YMCA. I still remember him doing the YMCA. Sarah remembers.
[1:36:24] And her son, Andrew, was at Sullivan, and I was George Harrison.
[1:36:31] Anyway, you know, looking around, I don't have anything prepared to say, but I do want to say that we're all in this together.
[1:36:41] The sense I get from looking around people tonight is that we're all angry, we're all in a fight. That's all I feel.
[1:36:47] So we
[1:36:53] have to look, we have to be strategic about how we fight issues,
[1:37:01] or that's one
[1:37:04] prong of attack.
[1:37:05] Getting the housing element passed so a builder can't exercise the builder's remedy and
[1:37:12] build them on stress beyond the sale del mar.
[1:37:14] That's another one.
[1:37:16] And the third one, which I haven't heard discussed much tonight, are the de-restrictions.
[1:37:24] And I think we all just assume automatically, we don't have any money, PBHA's broke.
[1:37:30] We don't really have a voice when we vote anyway, they don't open the ballots, what's
[1:37:35] the point?
[1:37:36] They're going to do what they're going to do and we're S-O-L.
[1:37:40] Not really true, if you read the by-laws, there actually is a mechanism to require a special
[1:37:48] meeting when a certain number of signatures are obtained.
[1:37:52] I mean, at a special meeting, we can then be in another vote.
[1:37:57] There's also not a requirement in the bylaws that the ballot's not be opened unless the
[1:38:05] quarantine is met.
[1:38:06] That was opposed maybe 10 years ago, although I wanted to previous directors.
[1:38:11] That's not a requirement.
[1:38:14] My suggestion is that we hold another vote, we get somebody in there, that's accountable
[1:38:22] the residents and that's going to pass assessments so that we can actually fight
[1:38:28] back when the time comes, fight back through the courts. What better city, what
[1:38:36] other cities are there like ours that are similar situated that have
[1:38:41] deep restrictions that have the kind of rich history that we have in
[1:38:45] California very very few and I think I think we would have a decent shot at
[1:38:51] and taking a case all the way up.
[1:38:54] And so what I'd like to see is the community band together
[1:39:01] and require that our HOA board pass assessments
[1:39:06] so we can build up the workshops
[1:39:08] and fight back to protect our leader restrictions.
[1:39:11] That's all I have, thank you.
[1:39:24] Good evening everyone, I'm Aziz Saleh
[1:39:26] and my both kids are going to town on campus.
[1:39:29] I feel so lucky because my kids they have the same opportunity that I had 40 years ago in my school.
[1:39:39] I grew up in nature, so I'm so happy for them.
[1:39:43] They go to town and have the other cousins, other uncles, etc.
[1:39:47] So they are kind of second or third generation there.
[1:39:51] I wish I could share with you my thoughts in the next story about this matter.
[1:39:56] So you could see more houses are filling up.
[1:40:05] So, I want to invite you to come over at the peak of old drop-off time and see how hard it is to get in the rear of the road or get out of the PV drive. It's a huge traffic. So, how you can add over 600 or whatever amount of the buildings there and I don't know how you want to handle it.
[1:40:28] you want to add at least 1,500 won't cost to this simple no no. I think it's
[1:40:35] better to invite Sacramento people to this area and show them the situation of
[1:40:40] the PVE and tell them that this is what we cannot do it here.
[1:41:01] You're not
[1:41:02] and other council members. My name is Richard Breaks. I live in Nevada Bay. I've been a member
[1:41:10] of St. Francis Church for over 40 years. I have served the Church in a variety of leadership
[1:41:16] capacities and as a practicing attorney I have performed legal work for pro bono for the Church
[1:41:24] for over 25 years. Last July the City Council removed the church from its list of
[1:41:33] potential sites for affordable housing for very valid reasons. The reasons for
[1:41:41] that decision have not changed, have not changed so there is no basis for the
[1:41:49] the City Council to reconsider that decision
[1:41:54] as has been intonated at the last City Council meeting
[1:41:58] and also tonight.
[1:42:00] I would like to review some of the reasons,
[1:42:03] reiterate some of the reasons to you,
[1:42:06] both to you and to other members of the community
[1:42:09] who are with us tonight.
[1:42:12] First, the church has no desire whatsoever
[1:42:15] to sell its property.
[1:42:16] That is a criticism. This is critical because the housing element, as you yourself have said, is not
[1:42:23] imminent domain. An owner must wish to sell his, her, or its property. Further, while the
[1:42:34] rector, wardens, investor member of St. Francis Church hold legal title of the property, the
[1:42:42] The beneficial owner is the Episcopal Diocese of Los Angeles.
[1:42:46] We are an integral part of the diocese and we have consulted with Bishop John Taylor
[1:42:57] and he supports our decision not to sell the property.
[1:43:03] Now one may ask why we are concerned about being included in the city's list of potential
[1:43:09] affordable housing sites if we have no desire to sell our property. The answer is that such
[1:43:17] listing would distract the church from its mission, would cause internal and community
[1:43:24] divisions, and cause increased pressures from the state.
[1:43:30] Second, we are a vibrant, active
[1:43:33] church, members of St. Francis as well as town and country of testify to that tonight and
[1:43:40] and I'm sure others will speak as well.
[1:43:43] Therefore, there is no chance of realistic development capacity
[1:43:47] or high likelihood of turnover within the planning period,
[1:43:52] which are the requirements for being included by HCD
[1:43:56] in the inventory for affordable housing.
[1:43:59] In conclusion, I wish to note that both our chapel
[1:44:03] and our church are architecturally significant
[1:44:06] in their design.
[1:44:07] noted architect Walter Swindle Davis who designed Leventy in with his
[1:44:13] brother in the building in Malikov that houses the ranch market, designed our
[1:44:18] chapel which was completed in 1952 and George Vernon Russell who prepared the
[1:44:24] master architectural plan for the LA County Museum was the architect for our
[1:44:30] church which was completed in 1965. Because of their architectural significance we
[1:44:37] We consulted with noted expert Robert Chattell about having these buildings listed on the
[1:44:42] National Register of Historic Places.
[1:44:45] He was involved in such effort with respective buildings in Malibu, Kova Plaza.
[1:44:50] Thank you very much for your attention to this matter, and thank you for your service to
[1:44:54] the city.
[1:44:55] Thank you.
[1:45:01] My name is Jeff Hayden. I have lived on the Hill my entire life. I was at Valmer.
[1:45:08] I was at Kalmani Elementary, Mallorca, the Intermediate at Royal Hills High School. I raised my kids here.
[1:45:15] My house is on the picture that you showed at the Craig Science Church. This is going to have a huge impact to the generation of my family.
[1:45:27] not to mention the traffic that's already there, the turn signals that'll probably have to be put in.
[1:45:34] I'm not sure what happened.
[1:45:39] This is kind of what goes on when we're having to have outsiders decide how we want to have
[1:45:45] to live and put our culture is.
[1:45:47] But I would encourage you to get with the other cities.
[1:45:50] What can we do as all the cities on that hill to connect this?
[1:45:55] We probably have a brief little attorneys here that might work pro bono on the thing.
[1:46:00] We have to have something else to do rather than to do that.
[1:46:06] I know that representatives from the Church of Christ science will probably come up and
[1:46:11] talk at some point here as well.
[1:46:13] They've already indicated that they're not interested in selling, and that's encouraging.
[1:46:18] However, the zoning's are changed.
[1:46:25] Thank you.
[1:46:27] My
[1:46:32] name is E. G. O'Bernier.
[1:46:34] I have a fund of E. La Selva.
[1:46:36] Very different than a lot of people who have come up and talked about how long we've been
[1:46:39] here.
[1:46:40] We've only been here for about a year and a half and the biggest thing for us is the sense of
[1:46:45] community right.
[1:46:46] And Andrew goes to town and country and it's something people have, the kids thrive there and
[1:46:52] they're very purposeful of how the school is set up in the activities.
[1:46:55] in that place is very, very special.
[1:47:00] I said you guys are very long to email, so I apologize for that, but it's really important
[1:47:05] to a lot of the families, I think you saw how many people raised their hands, how important
[1:47:09] that school is, we're walking this is the way, the other piece on the utilization that I
[1:47:15] think was really talked about is I almost feel sometimes that I'm at that school more times
[1:47:19] than Andrew is, and I think they don't want me to be there anymore, but you know, we're there
[1:47:23] for parenting classes. We go there for advice. I mean it's it's an unbelievable
[1:47:28] community so I want to keep a break but really great support for the school.
[1:47:32] Thank you. I
[1:47:43] have a summer resident down here in Manana Bay. First of all I want to say
[1:47:45] thanks to you all for dealing with this for I don't know how long it's been a very
[1:47:48] long time and it's literally a rock and a hard place. What I want to say is as
[1:47:52] much of everyone in this room and everyone that's not in this room as much as for you
[1:47:56] guys which has been brought up a couple times but I think it's been lost a little
[1:48:00] a little bit in the forest or in the forest for the trees or whatever the saying goes.
[1:48:04] Which is we are one community and no matter where these end up someone is going to be super
[1:48:10] mad.
[1:48:11] But if you get out of your area it's going to someone else's and then they're going to
[1:48:15] be super mad.
[1:48:17] So there is no world in which just nothing happens unless we want 500 unit developments next
[1:48:22] door to our single family homes that's just not a realistic scenario for us.
[1:48:26] I agree with our neighborhood voices, push, I agree with any every legal means we possibly can to push back.
[1:48:34] But if we do not pass a housing element, the number one enemy we have is building a remedy.
[1:48:40] It will be a nightmare beyond any of you can imagine.
[1:48:42] You're talking about 115 units in a place.
[1:48:46] Think about 500 and not in one spot.
[1:48:48] Think of every open lot we have where to fetch a price.
[1:48:52] So I empathize with everyone, no one wants the pain of the traffic and the
[1:48:57] constructions and all the pain that will come if one of these ends up in your
[1:49:01] backyard. But keep in mind that if it's not in your backyard it's in
[1:49:05] someone's and they're getting that pain. But I would recommend to the impossible task
[1:49:10] of the council is to do it based on equity as much as possible. Have everyone bear
[1:49:15] the pain equally as much as is possible. How to calculate that in a way that
[1:49:19] it doesn't anger a lot of people, I have no idea.
[1:49:23] But there is some way to think about traffic impact,
[1:49:26] congestion impact, property value impact,
[1:49:29] and try to at least from a principle perspective,
[1:49:32] spread the pain as much as we possibly can
[1:49:35] so that no one bears it inordinately more than others
[1:49:38] as much as we can.
[1:49:40] Recognizing there is no perfect solution
[1:49:42] where everyone's gonna get 3% of the pain.
[1:49:45] With that, I'll yield my last 54 seconds.
[1:49:47] Thank you my
[1:49:57] name is Catherine Hayden. I was born and raised.
[1:50:00] I'm Karen Palsberties. I went to high school or the view of your case. And I'm currently a graduate student at the University of California. So today, I've heard a lot about traffic impacts. I've heard a lot about the home values that are going to go down by the way. I live right next to the Christian Science Church, but I'm much better there. But for me, I want to talk about something that I'm more familiar with. My thesis is on air pollution exposure and adverse spread outcomes. Something that hasn't been talked about today is the air pollution
[1:50:29] that is going to come from the construction at this church,
[1:50:33] if it is approved for this site.
[1:50:35] There are houses on every single side.
[1:50:38] And as you know, construction is not fast.
[1:50:40] It's going to take years and years and years.
[1:50:42] And everyone that lives around that church
[1:50:46] is going to have to breathe in all of that lucid.
[1:50:49] We know that it has adverse health effects
[1:50:51] no matter what you feel about, private change,
[1:50:53] and air pollution, this is an issue
[1:50:55] and we're only beginning to understand the effects.
[1:50:58] So, and also if anyone has a membership of the golf course, you will also be exposed to all of that construction pollution.
[1:51:05] I understand that you have to find a spot, and I understand that the state is putting all of these regulations on you.
[1:51:12] But I would ask you find a site that is not going to impact so many neighbors and not going to cause health effects not only today, but in the long term as well.
[1:51:22] Thank you.
[1:51:23] Thank you.
[1:51:23] And my name
[1:51:32] is Jason Shelby.
[1:51:33] I'm a priest at St. Francis' fiscal church.
[1:51:37] And before I begin, I've been asked by one of my many bosses
[1:51:41] for the people that are here from St. Francis
[1:51:44] to stand up for at least a raise your hand.
[1:51:51] Thank you very much.
[1:51:54] This is,
[1:51:58] I saw many of you at the funeral for my looting.
[1:52:03] You came in the chapel for the funeral.
[1:52:04] And I'm glad that you were in attendance to honor his life and legacy of the work that he did for
[1:52:11] the Palace Verde's Estates.
[1:52:13] I'm a new resident.
[1:52:14] My family and I moved to PVD in February of last year.
[1:52:18] We live in the Belmonti neighborhood on a street with several young families, like
[1:52:24] why the teachers of Montmelagia Elementary feel at home.
[1:52:31] Throughout the week at church, we receive phone calls and visits from people meeting financial
[1:52:35] assistance, a place to stay, or food to eat, is not unusual to find a non-house person sitting
[1:52:43] in our front office waiting to talk to me. We are a place of refuge for many. People know that
[1:52:51] they can come here and at the very least be warmly greeted and welcomed. We are not obsolete. We are not
[1:53:01] under utilized. We are not for sale for any price. Thank you.
[1:53:15] Good evening. My name is
[1:53:17] Aileen Taver. I'm an attorney and I represent concerns that is since of
[1:53:22] Alice Ferries. I think we've heard a lot from you about the fact that HDD is
[1:53:27] making you do this. Yeah, there's a state law that says that you need to have the
[1:53:32] housing element, but what is in that housing element is your discretion.
[1:53:38] So HCD telling you you have to include specific lots is absolutely false.
[1:53:45] You can meet the standards, for example, by having ADUs.
[1:53:50] There are alternatives.
[1:53:53] This city will be making the findings that say this is what we're going to be doing.
[1:53:58] it gets submitted to HCD. HCD does not approve your housing element. HCD's role is to look at it
[1:54:07] and say, is it in substantial compliance with luck? That's all. You can disagree. HCD can
[1:54:14] disagree. As long as you've approved that housing element, there is no filters. Remedy, whether
[1:54:19] or not HCD likes what you have in that particular housing element. So I think it's a little bit misleading
[1:54:27] meeting to say that you have to have certain properties in that housing element, it really
[1:54:32] is up to the city as to what specific lots you want to have in there.
[1:54:39] And so I think that I would urge you to look at what those alternatives are and to particularly
[1:54:45] look at accessory dwelling units as part of your package.
[1:54:50] Thank you.
[1:54:50] Just
[1:54:53] to clarify, in the table that Gina shared, we do.
[1:55:00] We have 80, 80 use as part of our 199 plus 15% by here. So we have no limit. It's got to be based off of the calculation of how many units realistically we will build based on past and current practices. I'm sorry. Next. Hi.
[1:55:27] I was intending to speak, but I have two doubts in this fight, so I feel compelled to.
[1:55:35] The first, and I'm so happy to see there's so much support for Town and Country.
[1:55:39] I feel like I don't know, ma'am, if you live in Palsbury, the States, but to characterize
[1:55:45] the site, the town of countries on St. Francis, the physical church as underutilized or obsolete is
[1:55:51] completely misinformed, frankly, sorry. So that's the first one. Second is I see all this because I
[1:56:00] have three children, one of which has gone through a town of country. My daughter is currently
[1:56:04] at town of country. I have a baby at home who will attend town of country next year. I have many
[1:56:10] friends here, whose children, I mean, I don't have to keep going on. I think all of you
[1:56:15] who live here know that it's a highly utilized location. My second point, my second issue
[1:56:23] with some of the areas is next to my home. I'm not as close as the lady on a rolling ridge
[1:56:31] road, but I am on the corner of Via Campusina and Via Pima, which is kind of
[1:56:38] kind of corner to that site, and as you know it's smacked out in the middle of
[1:56:45] a four-way stop at PV Drive in Via Campusina and a four-way stop at Silver
[1:56:49] Square PV Drive, and if we think it's bottleneck now, I can't imagine adding what
[1:56:57] 160 times 2, I don't know, 320 extra cars, not to mention that is where I'm pretty sure
[1:57:05] the crime is coming into the increased robberies and burglaries and things that have been happening
[1:57:09] in Palsford and the States.
[1:57:11] We're pretty close to Crenshaw and Hawthorne in that area.
[1:57:14] I'm pretty sure they're not coming from PV dry.
[1:57:16] That seems like a much more reasonable route to take if you want a burglaries someone over
[1:57:20] here.
[1:57:21] So, increasing the traffic through that area, I mean, I think we can be a little more
[1:57:28] creative in terms of where we're trying to place, which parcels are trying to use.
[1:57:34] Someone mentioned that it's much tougher for a developer to build and smaller parcels
[1:57:39] of land.
[1:57:40] It's less desirable.
[1:57:41] I think handing them five acres and saying have at it, they're probably going to build to
[1:57:47] the max.
[1:57:47] So, that would be my argument against Christian science, I don't care.
[1:57:51] And also, in terms of traffic, town and country, it's just be reasonable, that's one of
[1:57:56] the most dangerous left hand turns, and I've remained in my life, so let's reconsider
[1:58:00] that one, too, sure.
[1:58:01] Okay.
[1:58:02] Thank you.
[1:58:11] Joshua Gottheim, Land Use Attorney, representing St. Francis Church, you know me from a couple
[1:58:18] of letters, so one recently.
[1:58:21] This is a political issue for you, but it's also a legal issue, and I don't think that's
[1:58:25] received sufficient attention through this process.
[1:58:30] Specifically, government code section 65583,
[1:58:35] specifically requires that the sites included in the inventory
[1:58:40] are suitable and available for residential development
[1:58:43] and have realistic and demonstrated potential
[1:58:46] for redevelopment during the planning period.
[1:58:49] I would like to see or recommend that you
[1:58:52] from your staff and consultant team into your city attorney and analysis looking at the
[1:58:59] statutory criteria and applying them to the various sites.
[1:59:03] Now I represent the St. Francis Church property, is that available, is it likely to turn
[1:59:09] over?
[1:59:10] No.
[1:59:10] In fact, it's legally prohibited from being developed with housing.
[1:59:14] It would be a fraud to represent to HCD that this church property could be developed
[1:59:21] housing or is this suitable and available for housing? Why isn't there a city
[1:59:26] attorney's memo shared publicly that sets forth these criteria and these legal
[1:59:32] standards? I don't think the council is being well-served or at least it's not a
[1:59:36] transparent process. Another legal consideration, the state trans property is
[1:59:42] subject to a restrictive covenant that prevents it from being developed with
[1:59:47] multi-family housing. That covenant can be enforced by the association of my
[1:59:52] neighbors by hundreds of property owners surrounding. It's part of a cohesive
[1:59:57] plan for the city and cannot be.
[2:00:00] Cannot be dispensed with by the church, even if it wanted to, which it doesn't. Another source
[2:00:07] of legal authority or advisory authority is HCD. It's been variously represented. Well, some
[2:00:15] of these sites are acceptable to HCD, and some are not acceptable to HCD. Where is that
[2:00:31] I would hate to be on the City Council and not have these resources available
[2:00:35] a clear legal analysis that should be shared with the public.
[2:00:40] A written response to analysis from HCD of the effect of restrictive
[2:00:46] governance which absolutely prevent this property from being included in the
[2:00:51] site's inventory. This is not a popularity contest or should not be, this should
[2:00:56] be an orderly process where you are well advised by your council and your
[2:01:00] consultant and make appropriate judgments within the discretion that's allowed by the law.
[2:01:06] For non-vacant sites, properties according to the HCD guidebook, properties much they have
[2:01:15] made certain criteria if they're non-vacant to be included.
[2:01:19] Is there a lease that would expire early within the planning period?
[2:01:23] No.
[2:01:24] For St. Francis, is the building dilapidated?
[2:01:27] Is the structure likely to be removed?
[2:01:29] No. Not for St. Francis. Is there a development agreement to develop the site with housing? No.
[2:01:36] Has the entity operating the use agreed to move to another location? No.
[2:01:41] And the fifth of the five criteria that are cited in the in the HCD guidebook for non vacant sites.
[2:01:48] Has a property owner provided a letter stating its attention to develop the property during the mining period? No.
[2:01:56] So it's simply
[2:01:59] confusing, it's not a no-pick, it is a no-pick process and I don't think you're
[2:02:03] being well served by the analysis. I don't think you're in a position to make a
[2:02:07] decision tonight. Thank you.
[2:02:16] Good evening and many of you know me as your neighbor to City Hall. My name is
[2:02:22] Darcelle Ramirez-Hamson. And truly, I, well, I'm really here to speak to our
[2:02:29] community because I'm
[2:02:36] really here to speak to our community because there's so
[2:02:40] many instances here and some of you are just coming along with a neighbor here.
[2:02:46] Another neighbor behind the library just heard about this today. I've heard
[2:02:52] about many activities as the City Council that do not represent us or our
[2:03:00] benefit when the street expansion with the Metro Authority was trying to be passed.
[2:03:06] Let me tell you, our city council was well aware that that bus line would have brought
[2:03:14] in SB 10 and building and builders remedy within a half mile radius of a bus.
[2:03:22] They can build 10 units.
[2:03:25] Our city council knew this and did not protect us.
[2:03:28] We were very fortunate. We have so many intelligent people in our community and
[2:03:33] engineers that push back at the time of all the liability of the exon right
[2:03:39] below the five-way or via campus. You know that they wanted to dig up and take
[2:03:44] down our community. It doesn't make sense because they are truly not representing
[2:03:50] us. Our city attorney is not our city attorney. It is their city attorney.
[2:03:57] I believe there are residents when they're not here, but it's shameful.
[2:04:04] You know that St. Francis is all that you're hearing.
[2:04:08] You know that.
[2:04:10] Mr. McGowan, you sit there sheepishly not looking up at other times, but you know this.
[2:04:17] Let me just give you a short experience.
[2:04:19] When that street expansion project came on, their city attorney told everyone that
[2:04:27] the open space lot between what happens to be my home, 360 PB Drive West, and the city
[2:04:36] hall was not open space, was commercial. I had to go through so much next door, every
[2:04:46] city council truly looking feverishly to get some attention and notice to our people.
[2:04:55] He never corrected the record, not even today.
[2:05:00] So, you are not getting accurate information. Let me give you some data on telling country. I did have two children that went there, your fabulous. In every way, and all the teachers and volunteers. My daughter's class, she is a junior, forgive me for sounding as different from being for my, that I'm saying, accolades for my daughter. But she's phenomenal. And she came up to me.
[2:05:29] out of towning country with 10 other girls. I had a very big girl scout, a true
[2:05:36] fat Montmelaga. Out of this class, 10 girls, those girls and young men are at
[2:05:47] higher universities, Berkeley, Stanford, Northeastern. I could give you data on
[2:05:56] just my daughter's graduating class.
[2:05:59] That is a contribution to our community and our world.
[2:06:04] When your time is up.
[2:06:07] Oh, thank you.
[2:06:09] Congratulations for your daughter for becoming the mayor.
[2:06:13] My sentiments are the same.
[2:06:15] It is shameful.
[2:06:16] Thank you.
[2:06:17] What you guys do not tell us.
[2:06:20] And it's no notice.
[2:06:21] We have other people waiting.
[2:06:22] Thank you.
[2:06:25] No mistake, there's no notice, that is their technique.
[2:06:33] Hello, my name is Elizabeth Peterson.
[2:06:36] I'm also, can you hear me?
[2:06:40] Hi, I'm Elizabeth Peterson.
[2:06:42] I'm also a town and country parent.
[2:06:44] My two kids are in high school.
[2:06:45] I see most of their teachers over here.
[2:06:46] Thanks for everything you did.
[2:06:48] I owe a lot to you.
[2:06:50] And I'm here to speak in support of not targeting
[2:06:56] the property in St. Francis, which we're talking about in countries located.
[2:07:02] One of the things
[2:07:03] I really want to raise, though, is this map I have here that shows Native American,
[2:07:10] archaeological sites and palace forties. One, I point to here, number 55, is literally
[2:07:15] rate at the site of St. Francis. In the 1920s and 1930s, the USC did a big excavation on
[2:07:25] that white condo building just over from the St. Francis property and found massive amounts
[2:07:31] of artifacts, the stratification going back a great deal of time.
[2:07:37] And then in the 1960s they found burial sites, another archaeology at 2109 was it a place
[2:07:47] closer to the property. I show up, everybody here, a burial site. These are the Tongva,
[2:07:56] Gabyelina Tongva tribe, which shows, you know, burial position, specific position with artifacts
[2:08:04] around them. So having spoken archaeologists is every reason to believe that that entire area is filled
[2:08:11] with Native American artifacts and burial sites.
[2:08:15] And I think considering all that has been done
[2:08:19] to the Native Americans in this country,
[2:08:21] including sending them out of palisaries,
[2:08:24] and basically attaining them internally in California,
[2:08:28] that should be a protected site.
[2:08:31] These Native American tribes recognized.
[2:08:35] So I want to just put the weight of that out here.
[2:08:37] And then the next thing is the Elsa Gundot Blue Butterfly, I don't know if anybody is familiar with that,
[2:08:43] it's a great rare butterfly species.
[2:08:46] It's really only found between roughly Santa Monica and Pallas Verde's
[2:08:49] and it has been found just adjacent for sure.
[2:08:54] It's very hard to find them.
[2:08:56] Right over there on just at the end of Torrent's Beach and also in Monacofe area
[2:09:02] and then also the Pallas Verde's Blue Butterfly.
[2:09:04] So both of these species of butterflies are very rare.
[2:09:08] Some of the most rare butterflies in the world and their members are federally endangered species
[2:09:13] and they're protected by the federal and major species sect.
[2:09:18] I bring this especially to your attention because back in the 1980s,
[2:09:22] Ranch of Pelas race tore up the only really known site for the PV blue butterfly
[2:09:27] and the federal government tried to prosecute.
[2:09:31] They were unsuccessful because it doesn't really matter because the lives have been changed
[2:09:36] and now you can't go after municipalities.
[2:09:39] So I would just, I would, out of concern for protecting Palisbury's estates, I would
[2:09:44] just warn you of that situation and really encourage you to look elsewhere and to just leave
[2:09:52] the same Francis site out of this.
[2:09:55] Thank you very much.
[2:09:56] Thank you.
[2:10:12] I am Jerry Nelson. I was at the end of the line and people are behind me. I am in agreement with
[2:10:22] the man in the crutch, who spoke earlier, and I just would like to make an observation
[2:10:27] about the Christian science side. I'm not a member of the church. I don't live right next
[2:10:32] to an effect mild, but it's nearly 75% that is proposed to go on that land of what is required of the 199.
[2:10:48] So you're shoving 75% of your crop of your responsibility into that one corner of the city.
[2:10:58] I know you're between a rock and a hard place that I agree with the younger the other man let's print the pain a little bit.
[2:11:07] Thank you.
[2:11:08] Thank you.
[2:11:14] Good evening, Council.
[2:11:16] Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
[2:11:18] My name is Craig Quinn, a 20-year resident here in Palisperty, the States in Lennon, a Bay.
[2:11:25] From a cash perspective, that's a little over $400,000 in property tax that we paid into the system.
[2:11:32] So my first comment is if you're looking for affordable housing, I'd like you to
[2:11:37] not profit taxes by half. That would help a lot. For those that are
[2:11:45] underserved that come into our community, let them start off at 25% of the
[2:11:49] tax rate help along rather than build these shuddy buildings that we're talking
[2:11:53] about. I did not vote for anyone in Sacramento that is shoving this down to
[2:11:59] art for adults. It's a second age.
[2:12:05] I'm not all my friends. I continue to some of you are,
[2:12:08] my friends here, but a lot of people are leaving California as you know. A lot of people are leaving
[2:12:12] Palisperies of states. And I'm looking for reasons to stay in California. I brought my kids back to
[2:12:18] California from Texas and they went to great schools down there. So we're looking for reasons.
[2:12:24] This is horrific what's going on. So we all know that and I think we all agree with that.
[2:12:30] We're also members of St. John Fisher Church, although I'm thinking of switching to St.
[2:12:35] Grant itself.
[2:12:38] Maybe just for a month or two.
[2:12:41] But part of a great community.
[2:12:45] Let me get into the weeds here real quick.
[2:12:48] And it has, if we have to do this, which sounds like, you know, unless we get lawsuits
[2:12:52] and some other things, we're going to have to go forward, less is more from my perspective
[2:12:57] and from everybody's perspective, it's my understanding that there is a number on your report
[2:13:03] that has 271 low income housing units. It's extra sites that were added to the proposition
[2:13:12] or the proposal, but the RHNA only requires that we submit 199 units from what I understand.
[2:13:21] So let's stick with under 200 to start. Don't give them anything else that we don't have to do.
[2:13:27] If it's a recommendation, it's not a law on their part from what I understand.
[2:13:33] And eight use would be a great way for us to do this.
[2:13:38] It's my understanding that rolling hills saw the majority of their issue with about 95%
[2:13:44] of ADUs.
[2:13:45] They'll be where they're going to put them, but if that is in fact correct, it's what I understand.
[2:13:51] If they're willing to put them in their backyard, there's got to be good reasons for that.
[2:13:55] so we should strongly consider that. We can parcel up the rhetoric community, hopefully behind
[2:14:00] other residences, they won't be being constructed, start from buildings and that type of thing.
[2:14:05] Malagic code, banana-based plaza, et cetera, don't necessarily need to be on the list. So,
[2:14:13] I'll leave it with this, 199, and 80 use. Thank you.
[2:14:27] My name is Stanton Huntson. I am a 24-year resident
[2:14:36] I'm not saying that to Bragg, but I've moved four times in California since 19, since 2001.
[2:14:47] Every year that I've done it, I've done it for the betterment of my family and my children
[2:14:51] of two amazing daughters, ten and twelve years old.
[2:14:54] I don't envy anyone, any nine of you, up there.
[2:14:58] by comments and words.
[2:15:01] I have been sitting in the back listening. I got here a little late, so I'm just a little bit of the presentation, but I don't think as angry as we are. My anger, personally, is not against any of you because I don't envy your position. My anger is Sacramento. So what we need to do as citizens of a lot of things, the one gentleman said that we are one, and we are one, right?
[2:15:29] Because if someone build that unit across the street for me and blocks my view, I'm going
[2:15:37] to be furious.
[2:15:38] But if they don't build it where I don't want it, they're going to build where somebody
[2:15:42] else doesn't want to let the woman to keep talking about the rich, the rich, the rich,
[2:15:44] the rich, the rich, the rich.
[2:15:45] You were listening to sort of laughing at the same time you laughed to keep them crying,
[2:15:49] did you feel bad for this person?
[2:15:51] She spent all this time, money, raised her kids like I'm trying to do and I'm thinking
[2:15:55] that my property guys are going to diminish.
[2:15:58] and the element, I think, that is going to come into Palsbury's if we talk about low income.
[2:16:04] I'm not trying to be stereotypical, but if someone is going to be living in a apartment
[2:16:10] for $1200 where I'm spending a lot of money to live where I'm living,
[2:16:15] I don't think you're just going to get one family in that apartment, right?
[2:16:20] I think you're going to get a number of people in that apartment and you're going to get an
[2:16:24] elements in Palsbury's that is going to diminish, just not our property values,
[2:16:29] police, gentlemen, our way of life.
[2:16:31] I moved here in Palsbury's because I love what Palsbury's represents.
[2:16:35] I love the community.
[2:16:37] That is going to be threatened if this passes.
[2:16:41] So we can be as upset as these nine peoples you want.
[2:16:44] And I think our anger is displaced.
[2:16:46] This needs to be Sacramento.
[2:16:47] So the one moment that was handy, that was holding that flag up, whatever it was.
[2:16:51] I talked about the voices of the neighborhood.
[2:16:55] That's the project number one which we need to do.
[2:16:58] And as I was sitting back here since 20 minutes after quarter after six,
[2:17:04] I saw nine people in this room that were my clients,
[2:17:09] four of which are attorneys.
[2:17:11] One of them just left.
[2:17:13] So I think if it's a funding that we can't,
[2:17:17] if the city can't afford it,
[2:17:19] You tell one of those attorney clients of mine that they possibly could have a building
[2:17:25] to obstruct their view and diminish their property values and change policies will not
[2:17:31] obey the way of life.
[2:17:32] I don't think you're going to have a hard time getting a band of attorneys together to help
[2:17:38] fund whatever initiative we're trying to do.
[2:17:40] So it starts a Sacramento.
[2:17:43] Not necessarily.
[2:17:44] It's people going to be angry.
[2:17:44] You don't want to don't displace your anger Sacramento.
[2:17:47] Thank you.
[2:17:47] Thank you.
[2:17:56] Thank you for the opportunity to address you tonight.
[2:18:00] I would tell you, I am a grandmother of Pound Country.
[2:18:05] My grandchild was there.
[2:18:07] It was a wonderful experience.
[2:18:10] I have lived in Palisparadees, America co-pactually, for 39 years.
[2:18:16] I worked for St. Francis for 30 meters.
[2:18:19] It feels like yesterday.
[2:18:20] day. St. Francis, it's an amazing, amazing place. Truly, come see. Truly, you will see
[2:18:31] what a resource it is to paddle through, and especially Malibu Coast. And yes, it
[2:18:38] has been Mr. Representative. It is very, very active. I only have three minutes, so I can't
[2:18:48] tell you everything and I can tell you a little. In 1952 you heard the PVE community
[2:18:58] there were some ladies here that said, Palis Verde needs a church. They banded together,
[2:19:07] the brothers were part of that,
[2:19:11] and they built the very first church built in Palis Verde
[2:19:18] it was active then and it is still very active. It served the community then and it still
[2:19:27] serves community. It serves the members and it serves the residents. We are truly there
[2:19:35] through every one.
[2:19:39] I moved here and drove by. St. Francis, you're five years before I
[2:19:45] knew it was there. My tennis partner insisted I apply for a job there. And I wasn't
[2:19:53] very good at tennis obviously. I applied and I'm still there.
[2:20:00] I could go on and on and tell you more and more, but I do want to know how many organizations
[2:20:09] we serve. A-A, L-N-N, they meet there every week, three times a week actually, Sunday nights
[2:20:19] and Thursday. I think that's important to know. Our clergy's busy performing baptisms.
[2:20:27] we actually had just this past week of two babies baptized. Marriages still, their families
[2:20:37] are getting married in churches and need a church. Yes, we do end a lot of services.
[2:20:45] We're all going to die some time and churches are very important for that as well.
[2:20:54] I'm not
[2:20:55] public speaker. I've only come to visit you in 39 years, three times, and two of them have been
[2:21:02] about the housing elements, about St. Francis. I hope you never have to come back, you know.
[2:21:07] I hope you never have to talk to you about them. It really is a challenge. It took me a while to
[2:21:15] even try to write down what I could tell you.
[2:21:20] Thank you, you're a timeless. Thank you. Well, let's
[2:21:24] You just say, okay, come and see.
[2:21:26] We do so much more and there's more time.
[2:21:28] I'd like you to come see us.
[2:21:30] Come check us out before you even think about
[2:21:33] putting St. Francis.
[2:21:35] Thank you.
[2:21:42] I am Tom.
[2:21:44] I am Dan Gimellan.
[2:21:46] I wasn't planning to come up and make any comments
[2:21:48] or anything tonight but I felt compelled
[2:21:49] and some of the things I'm going to say are actually repeat.
[2:21:52] I think that you're in a really hard position.
[2:21:55] The state has put this on you
[2:21:56] And the first thing this is a comment section, it's all a comment.
[2:22:00] If a politician says they're going to pass this law, and you vote for them, and then they
[2:22:03] pass that law, and you go, oh my gosh, that's terrible law.
[2:22:06] Maybe it's time to start thinking when you go to the ballot box, who the heck you're voting
[2:22:10] for, and what they say they're going to do.
[2:22:12] Because people are all surprised, like, oh, we're done with each other, oh, really?
[2:22:16] Oh, wow.
[2:22:17] You said he was going to do it, and they did it.
[2:22:18] So that's my first comment, is our council, our city, is being forced to do this because
[2:22:25] of sacramentum.
[2:22:26] So be careful who you vote for, maybe there's other reasons you're thinking you're voting for this person, but when it gets down to the bottom line, you're voting for somebody that's going to affect your life, your house, your property.
[2:22:36] We work hard, we play by the rules, we pay our taxes, we move into our houses, we build our houses, we remodel our houses, whatever it may be.
[2:22:44] We'd say, oh, great. This is it. They come and say, we're going to diminish your property
[2:22:48] vibes. You're going to force you to do these things. Even though you play by all the rules,
[2:22:51] too bad, we're going to make new rules. We're going to move those goal posts. And I think
[2:22:55] that's a terrible thing to do. On the other hand, for the comments, maybe one of the best
[2:22:59] things we can do is 80 use. It's the most, maybe every bonus room, pool house, guest house,
[2:23:06] we can say, hey, that could be an 80 you. That isn't 80 you. Maybe we can get a lot of that.
[2:23:09] There's a lot of those houses in the PVE. So maybe we can knock off some of those
[2:23:13] numbers quickly and easily with that. We have to also put in our objective standards,
[2:23:18] make them as tough as possible so that anybody that is going to build anything has to
[2:23:22] follow up so many rules, so many new infrastructure, they had to put it so we don't even have
[2:23:26] storm grade on our street, you know, so our house is the storm grade for the entire block.
[2:23:31] You're going to put more houses and none of these plans are in my particular neighborhood,
[2:23:36] but everything that happens to PVE affects everybody in PVE, so even if it's not your house,
[2:23:41] your school, your church, when it goes up, when it goes tight back, it's affecting all of us.
[2:23:47] So let's look at any alternative we can to make it as tough as possible to build anything
[2:23:52] in the future and to make it squeak by with whatever minimum we have to do to make a state
[2:23:57] get off our backs right now. Thank you. It's
[2:24:12] a work for you. I'd like to introduce myself. I'm
[2:24:16] Stuart Kriley and I grew up here. I went into the school and if I'm going to be a devil's advocate
[2:24:23] it is because I've worked for the devil. I was a planning commissioner for five years,
[2:24:28] so I served with you and by you on the days of the self, and if you think this meeting
[2:24:35] is running late, some of our meetings ran until 1.30 in the morning, so this is actually
[2:24:38] your just hidden third name at this point.
[2:24:43] I've also been a part of St. Francis since
[2:24:46] I was six months old.
[2:24:49] I was a senior athlete when our church was consecrated.
[2:24:55] My children
[2:24:56] and also service our collides. My wife serves an inquire.
[2:25:01] I never thought I would be here today to explain my connection to St. Francis to you, but here we are. I
[2:25:12] know the dilemma you're in. I want to sympathize. I know what it's like to make difficult choices involving people's homes and their pieces of business. In this present manner, there's very little that you can do. I know that Sacramento has taught your hands, but there are two very important things
[2:25:33] important things that you should do and I will argue that you have failed to do.
[2:25:40] One, you have failed to be timely. This freight train was long incoming. You have used
[2:25:48] up so much time that you have now have days, not months, to get this housing element in.
[2:25:55] You had an ad hoc committee that was trying to do this work. It was started and then abandoned.
[2:26:00] The best solutions are no longer in the table because you've run out of time.
[2:26:06] Now you have a messy series of public meetings where the people you rely on have not done
[2:26:11] their homework, leaving you unprepared, and the public horrified.
[2:26:18] Your consultants are unreliable.
[2:26:20] They're creating staff reports that cut and paste from other work they're doing for other cities.
[2:26:27] In your last meeting, someone prepared the staff report for you.
[2:26:31] This is agenda 11.
[2:26:33] Look on page two.
[2:26:36] They're talking about the two sites, shirt sites that are under consideration.
[2:26:41] The United Methodist Church and the First Church of Christ Scientist.
[2:26:46] Last I checked, the United Methodist Church is enrolling hills.
[2:26:53] Why do you tolerate this?
[2:26:54] these people are working for you and if they're not as a planning commissioner,
[2:26:58] I needed staff to help me understand the applications are before me.
[2:27:03] But if they're just cutting and pasting and letting you hang out to drive,
[2:27:07] you suffer and we do too with you.
[2:27:12] Two, I would argue you've been failed to be honest dealers.
[2:27:17] You have made churches a target.
[2:27:19] I know a fall, well, why? They're easy targets.
[2:27:23] They probably won't sell.
[2:27:25] What's the harm?
[2:27:27] It will appease the housing gods of Sacramento.
[2:27:30] The neighbors won't object easy, right?
[2:27:34] Instead of your manager and staff engaging with these churches, my church,
[2:27:39] in your deliberations, honestly,
[2:27:41] you have invited them to dinner only for us to find out where the main course.
[2:27:49] It might actually make financial sense to slap an overlay zoning for these churches.
[2:27:53] Hey, they will be coming out ahead if you might aren't you.
[2:27:55] If it's such a good idea, why not do it in every church in the city?
[2:28:00] As a child, I play some city.
[2:28:03] What again?
[2:28:04] Do you create power stations and airports and roads?
[2:28:08] And then every once in a while, the big fat church would spawn right on a piece of
[2:28:12] prime real estate, the city you were trying to build.
[2:28:15] Do you know how annoying that was?
[2:28:18] Well, you actually do.
[2:28:21] Churches house no people.
[2:28:23] They generate no business. They pay no taxes.
[2:28:29] The difference is I'm not playing
[2:28:30] soon city, but you are.
[2:28:44] Do it out a question for you. You had stated that the best solutions aren't on the table.
[2:28:50] What do you think we are overlooking?
[2:29:00] It can be running for city council right now.
[2:29:04] I'm sure all of us have an opinion what it is, and it's not my backyard, correct?
[2:29:09] And so, they're just saying, hey, we try.
[2:29:11] A really good idea, I would think,
[2:29:15] is to take the commercial areas that we have.
[2:29:18] We're on the ground floor, all the businesses are presently
[2:29:22] and generate more traffic for them
[2:29:23] by building housing above them.
[2:29:26] Try and keep them whole so that the people
[2:29:28] who own the leases don't go out of business
[2:29:29] while you're doing the construction.
[2:29:31] Try to do that three corner, build your shot
[2:29:33] with the multi-owners and the landlords
[2:29:35] that our absentee just collect collecting rent and set it by us then by saying look we'll buy you
[2:29:40] out but we're going to have some sort of a bond to help them build those things so that we actually
[2:29:45] have better businesses for the businesses that are there to increase density when we work it out that
[2:29:50] way but I don't you're not going to get that done by February 11th and you'd have to really really
[2:29:55] engage the neighborhood and get them engaged and saying yeah you know it would be nice
[2:30:00] Let's have a couple more restaurants and make sure that there's not this revolving door. I share links also, very easy. I just hope it's still there. Is it going to be a business like the other five ones, like tallow shades and everything else? But that's going to take hard work. And I don't know if that's going to happen. And it's certainly not this point. We have looked at the other commercial areas. So just just to clarify that. But thank you. Thank
[2:30:33] you.
[2:30:33] Good evening. My name is Robin Panneau. I've been a member of St. Francis Episcopal Church since 1992, and I've lived in
[2:30:41] Palsbury's estate since 1990, first in Almaty, and now in Mount Bay. At St. Francis, I served in many capacities over the years.
[2:30:50] I currently have at the St. Francis, St. Teresa's Guild. I'm a long-time member of the St. Francis Outreach Scholarship Committee, and a regular helper for
[2:30:59] We're St. Francis by monthly, homeless feeding activity in St. Louis and Long Beach.
[2:31:04] Our St. Francis outreach scholarship fund health students of limited means with our unmet
[2:31:09] college expenses and with mentoring.
[2:31:11] We are celebrating 26 years.
[2:31:14] In 2023, we dispersed over 18,000 to health students with tuition, laptops, and books.
[2:31:23] We do a lot at St. Francis, we're very active.
[2:31:25] Our St. Teresa's Guild is a group of women whose mission is to help women and children.
[2:31:30] We support Mama Gills' Health, which is a watch-based after-school program and House of
[2:31:35] Hope in San Pedro.
[2:31:37] Our research of the community is an important mission in San Francisco.
[2:31:41] In addition to what's done through our Guilds and Scholarship Committee, we are active partners
[2:31:46] with St. Luke's Episcopal Church in Long Beach, Harbor Interfaith Services in Beacon House
[2:31:51] San Pedro and Rotary's program to help the military families in Camp Pendleton.
[2:31:57] We prepare food for the homeless, we collect food donations, we sort and distribute clothing
[2:32:03] for vegan house, and we engage in a variety of the bond-going projects.
[2:32:07] We use the facilities regularly in St. Francis in carrying out all these activities.
[2:32:14] St. Francis is my spiritual home and my social home.
[2:32:16] It's a very vibrant community, very active, and a great group of do-coters, if you will.
[2:32:23] And I appreciate your time.
[2:32:25] Thank you.
[2:32:32] Hi.
[2:32:32] Good evening.
[2:32:33] My name is Jennifer Sam's.
[2:32:34] Thank you very much for letting us speak here tonight.
[2:32:37] It's a nice place to be able to come and speak and listen and share in a peaceful environment.
[2:32:43] One of the places, of course, that you've heard about that's come up for a possible site
[2:32:47] is St. Francis of this culture.
[2:32:48] My family and I we live in Torrance, but St. Francis has become our spiritual home for over 25 years.
[2:32:56] In fact, when we first started, I wasn't even a Piscopillian, it was just a very comfortable, friendly place, and I felt welcome in with them.
[2:33:07] So our church is a very prominent piece of the South Bay community, I want to share a little bit of that.
[2:33:13] Our church is being used every day and night.
[2:33:15] our church hosts town and country preschool during the day. At night we hold a
[2:33:20] meetings church services and other community meetings such as quilting
[2:33:24] gills, pavilion dances, and fundraisers. As a church our members are very involved
[2:33:30] in not only raising funds for our keep and our programs but also for outreach
[2:33:35] within our church and community. The physical church women's group raises over
[2:33:40] $25,000 a year and the majority of the money goes back into the community for
[2:33:45] such things as Camp Stevens Scholarships for kids that can't afford camp, feeding the
[2:33:50] homeless at St. Louis and scholarships for students outside of Palo Suri, shooting money
[2:33:55] or other needs to be able to attend college. You might wonder where this money comes from.
[2:34:02] Three of our huge fundraisers are an antique show, a rubbish sale, and an art and wine auction.
[2:34:08] These events are visited by all walks of life here in the South Bay community. Some of you
[2:34:13] might have even attended some of these things.
[2:34:16] People come for the entertainment,
[2:34:18] some come for meal, others might come for fellowship,
[2:34:21] some might come for the need to buy clothes, furniture,
[2:34:24] or housewares that they wouldn't normally be able to afford.
[2:34:28] Not only are we providing this, but the money raised,
[2:34:31] then leads to the huge amount of outreach
[2:34:33] that we do through our women's groups.
[2:34:36] May this church and the grounds continue to be here
[2:34:39] for our spiritual needs as well as the needs
[2:34:41] for everybody in our community.
[2:34:42] thank you. Thank you.
[2:34:51] Good evening. My name is Rocky Weber and first I want to thank you all for having a special meeting.
[2:35:00] It's really cool. And thank everyone for coming. I mean, I couldn't get a parking spot. It was so crowded. And we're in the third hour. So, and it's raining. And it's raining. And I think it's, it's very cool that you're letting absolutely everyone express their opinions. So, my opinion. I, for 41 years, I've lived on Camp Seanna. It's a Christian.
[2:35:30] science churches there. And earlier a woman who was tall, I lived on the other side, like
[2:35:37] one street down, one street down. So I've seen that Camusine Road, it's cute, it's small,
[2:35:45] the golf course traffic gets heavy there. And I know that's what you're looking at. There's a
[2:35:52] really only about the anchor you're going to be able to get to the side of that church. And if you
[2:35:57] If you stuff a lot of housing in here, that's just going to be a nightmare for that area.
[2:36:03] And it's actually going to be unsafe.
[2:36:06] I mean, they've put up, they used to have a stop sign here, that they put up, this has been taken there.
[2:36:16] Now, so the safety issue there, I think, is more than you want to get into.
[2:36:21] And it's just out of place.
[2:36:23] I mean, there are only single family homes here.
[2:36:27] So it really does, it will change the value.
[2:36:30] Someone else is talking about the value of its housing.
[2:36:33] They're all really expensive.
[2:36:34] It definitely will change the value.
[2:36:37] So that's my wish is that you take that area off your sites.
[2:36:44] Now the second part is if the obvious place is the open space.
[2:36:50] I mean, that's the, I mean, that's the elephant in the room.
[2:36:54] That's the obvious place.
[2:36:55] So if the zoning wasn't a problem, who would you guys,
[2:37:01] like that spot, would you use that spot, send that spot in?
[2:37:04] I'm thinking yes, right?
[2:37:07] No.
[2:37:08] If the zoning was okay, you wouldn't use those paint,
[2:37:11] all those acres down by Malachiko where people play sports and all.
[2:37:16] Okay.
[2:37:17] That's a district property.
[2:37:19] Well, it's in the city.
[2:37:21] What I heard was, it was the open space we couldn't use because it was too hard to do.
[2:37:30] And now, so what earlier said, you've been just taking two years, how we've kind of behind me,
[2:37:37] but that didn't sound too right, too hard to do.
[2:37:44] So maybe we should, I think maybe the gentleman behind me is going to know one of us.
[2:37:51] I mean, we should open that up and see that is it really too hard to do.
[2:37:59] I mean, it's possible, right?
[2:38:00] You said you can change the open space and zoning can be changed.
[2:38:04] So that would be my only recommendation.
[2:38:08] If that was really, you should look into that before you start
[2:38:12] We're going and getting all the other spots in your city.
[2:38:16] Okay? Thank you.
[2:38:23] Good evening. I think it's kind of ironic. It's a dark and stormy night.
[2:38:27] As we're trying to tackle what is a very difficult tickle that you all have been put in.
[2:38:33] I echo the statement of the gentleman that big crutches and that we are all in this together.
[2:38:37] I also echo what the very tall woman said.
[2:38:41] And I think we're adding this to the phrasing of an MV is not next to me.
[2:38:46] You're going to be your players who didn't want it next to me.
[2:38:49] But my name is Todd Salasca.
[2:38:51] I've got four children that I'm raising here in Palsbury's estates, all four attended
[2:38:57] the town and country preschool, under the stewardship of Miss Sharon and Miss Tony.
[2:39:01] My wife attended some four years ago, though I would tell you as she looks 25.
[2:39:07] We are here in support of St. Francis in Town and Country School.
[2:39:13] You know, and I have the pleasure of serving on the Town and Country Board
[2:39:15] with Ms. Sharon, Ms. Julie, overseeing day-to-day operations.
[2:39:19] And as I said before, you all are really in a pickle.
[2:39:22] And with respect to St. Francis and the Christian Science Church,
[2:39:26] sites, you know, Josh presented legal reasons, Elizabeth presented environmental
[2:39:29] and historic significance.
[2:39:31] I think you've received an overall abundance of emotional reasons
[2:39:35] why that is such a critical component of this community and Dick presented a reminder
[2:39:40] for why St. Francis was removed in the first place. All of this tends to focus on not
[2:39:45] next to me. And in my opinion, my limited experience, a compromise is leaving both sides equally
[2:39:54] unhappy or equally pleased depending on which side of the coin you're looking at it from.
[2:39:59] What are you doing?
[2:40:00] I think has been missing in this pursuit has been clarifications around timing. What is the actual timing that we need to get a conforming housing element in? I would appreciate a direct answer.
[2:40:14] Exactly. And here we are catching up for lost time. The gentleman that was just up here saying we're trying to make up for lost time. Second element, collaboration. We have a committee of ready willing and able, very intelligent
[2:40:29] and people working within our community
[2:40:31] that I think have been underutilized.
[2:40:34] You, City Council are volunteering your time.
[2:40:36] I know you're not developers by background,
[2:40:38] real estate experts by background.
[2:40:40] We have a lot of those in the community
[2:40:42] that I think have been underutilized.
[2:40:44] Finally, a plan, a plan going forward.
[2:40:47] To me, we have a vision of, we wanna conforming plan,
[2:40:51] but a vision without a step-by-step plan is just a dream.
[2:40:54] And thus far, I don't think we've been able
[2:40:56] to achieve that dream
[2:40:57] And because we haven't had open communication with the community for many in the community
[2:41:02] it's been a kind of gotcha as different sites were put onto the housing element as potential
[2:41:08] candidates.
[2:41:09] I would strongly encourage you tonight, knowing that we're two years behind someone's
[2:41:14] at February 11th as a deadline, how can we engage this community, create a committee which
[2:41:19] was discussed at the PV Country Club, getting a committee of ready willing and able people
[2:41:24] in our community to help provide professional advice because I agree that the consultation
[2:41:30] that the committee has been provided thus far is insufficient and is not going to allow us to
[2:41:35] address the housing element in a timely manner with sites that would actually work. There are land
[2:41:42] mines, there are things we can do with how we present it to the city or to the state that provide us
[2:41:47] the ability to essentially protect ourselves, getting an approved housing element without putting
[2:41:52] properties at risk like town and country, like the Christian Sciences Church. So please leverage
[2:41:58] the community and thank you for your service. Thank you.
[2:42:05] I do want to address one of the comments.
[2:42:08] We've submitted and talked to HCD over the last two years and received comments back and they just
[2:42:13] have an approach. So it's not that staff or council has been, you know, to relate our fingers, you know,
[2:42:21] we've been actively working on this and we've had a number of public meetings over the last two
[2:42:25] plus years to try to try and do this I do more than two years. So, sir.
[2:42:32] Good evening. My name is James Dawes and I don't want to be able to sell that.
[2:42:37] You know, I'm continually struck when I come to these meetings about the fact that
[2:42:43] you know, people here in my opinion understand the problem, they understand this
[2:42:48] getting crammed on everybody's throat. They understand it's a tremendous problem.
[2:42:53] In fact, I'd say you can probably be the biggest problem that exists for most of the
[2:42:57] residents here in Baltimore today.
[2:43:00] But I think they also sorely lack information, and I don't know why there is not some
[2:43:08] place that they can go look on some website somewhere that says, hey, look, here's why we
[2:43:14] have 80 ADUs in our submission, here's why it's not 100, here's why it's not 50, here's
[2:43:21] is 80, okay? Here's what design element really means. We can really hold people's feet
[2:43:28] to the fire, or maybe we can't, but we'd like to try. You know, let people understand
[2:43:35] exactly where things stand, what is builders' revenue? You know, even though somebody
[2:43:41] talked about it here, you ask people out here, if they can explain what that really means,
[2:43:46] I mean, people, you think, no, that, you know, I did very few and the same with, you know,
[2:43:53] almost everything is discussed is, okay, you started out with this big funnel, here's
[2:44:00] the possible response, you narrowed it down, why did you narrow it down the way you did?
[2:44:05] Just write it down, let people know so if they disagree, they can come and say, hey, I disagree
[2:44:11] agree with you, I want you to hear my opinion and consider their opinion.
[2:44:17] At the end of the day, we might go with what you just selected, but let people understand.
[2:44:23] This is why we're doing things.
[2:44:24] This is our plan.
[2:44:26] This is our strategy moving forward.
[2:44:28] All these other legal processes that were people who supposedly took on the state and lost,
[2:44:34] put it down and right, it's people who understand.
[2:44:35] These can be fought the state on these issues. They all lost. It was all unanimous or it wasn't
[2:44:43] Give people information so they know. Okay, we have to where we're doing everything we possibly can
[2:44:49] Even as far as assessments let people know hey, we can assess everybody a thousand bucks two thousand bucks
[2:44:56] If you're in let us know you're in we'll put that
[2:45:00] That on the table. You know, I think that people just want to understand what is going on, why it's going on, what the plan is going forward, so they have that information, so they at least get some peace of mind. I may not like this, but I understand why it is happening. And I really, I really think a lot of people would benefit greatly from that. And I also think that when you run these meetings, these need to be informational, informative, and not sort of a meeting where
[2:45:29] you guys don't even know the answers to things. Michael asked a question earlier
[2:45:34] at the very beginning and he probably heard me shout back there about what you
[2:45:39] know it's because to me these should be like an attorney. An attorney asks questions
[2:45:45] that he knows what the answer is going to be if he's a good attorney. He is prepared
[2:45:50] the witnesses prepared that's how you educate people and I think that's why people
[2:45:55] come here is to get educated, get informed and not leave here with a bunch of
[2:46:00] questions like, I don't know what's going on, I don't know what they're doing, I don't
[2:46:03] know why they're doing it, it doesn't make sense. Thank you.
[2:46:18] Good evening. I've seen you before. I'm Deborah Goplin. I've lived here since 1962
[2:46:25] so I've seen a lot of changes over the years. I'm also a company manager for
[2:46:32] several commercial buildings in the United States, including the Paddy and Field.
[2:46:37] I know most of the testimony are questions. Tonight have been about St. Francis Church.
[2:46:45] I'm a member of the G.A. Garden. They have their meetings at St. Francis Church.
[2:46:50] That's how I got to know the campus and it's a beautiful campus and work pretty serving me.
[2:46:58] My question is, I have more questions than anything.
[2:47:03] It seems like the common thread of the choices that they have been
[2:47:08] are up for on list are buildings that you know are not going to sell.
[2:47:19] They've all said that you know what that is.
[2:47:22] And this is the same thing with the patio building.
[2:47:24] The owners don't mind itself.
[2:47:26] So I'm wondering if these buildings are like the sacrificial land, you know, this is what
[2:47:34] you can come up with to satisfy the requirement and that's how it is.
[2:47:44] My question is, if you submit these buildings now, can we have a better measure to perhaps
[2:47:55] on a open space that we qualify for this housing.
[2:48:02] And our work is this list locked again.
[2:48:06] And then you can't change your maybe come back later
[2:48:10] and say, well, we have open spaces.
[2:48:11] It's been voted into, you know, to meet these requirements.
[2:48:16] Can that be changed?
[2:48:18] So that's simply my question.
[2:48:20] Or can something be annexed, you know,
[2:48:23] like Woodford Hill. I don't know if that seems to be staying for a while. Maybe there's some kind of
[2:48:30] arrangement between Torrance and PDE that you can satisfy the requirement that you need but that was some kind of change.
[2:48:39] I'm not a lawyer so I can't answer any of this but there are just questions. Thank you. Thank you.
[2:48:49] My name is Ed Whitmore, I'm a 30-year-plus president of the House of the United States, and I wanted to address the issue of the ADUs as our option to solve this problem.
[2:49:02] We've come to a number of ADUs. How do we arrive at that number? Is that the maximum number that we can have as a part of this process?
[2:49:13] So, I guess I'll put that question in terms of its whole.
[2:49:22] Okay. So, the state has cities looked back at the last eight years, and of course,
[2:49:34] eight years haven't been around for the last eight years. So, starting from 2018 through 2021,
[2:49:41] the city provides the yearly permits and approvals for ADUs and that sets the
[2:49:50] precedent for how many ADUs the city is expected to approve and permit.
[2:50:00] And the following eight years. So we were able to demonstrate that was an average of 10 per year by counting up all the
[2:50:11] have been permitted so far because we had to negotiate and say instead of stopping at 2021 can we
[2:50:21] go through now and HCP said yes and then we also projected for the remaining year because this
[2:50:29] was preliminarily approved in mid 2023 so we projected forward for the remaining of 2023 and we
[2:50:40] We also made a statement that said the city just adopted a new ADU ordinance that came
[2:50:49] into compliance and made more information readily available.
[2:50:55] Therefore, we project that more ADUs will be permitted in the next eight-year cycle.
[2:51:02] So therefore, it's one of the things you're probably going to do.
[2:51:06] The City of Rolling Hills solved this problem.
[2:51:09] It's absolutely true.
[2:51:11] It's written record.
[2:51:12] It's solved with this problem through ADU's only.
[2:51:16] I'll guarantee you, there wasn't one ADU built
[2:51:18] in Rolling Hills.
[2:51:19] So they were all on the school houses and everything else.
[2:51:24] So why are we so beholden to this when the City
[2:51:29] were next door, solved their entire problem through ADU's.
[2:51:35] This is basically saying existing barns, existing pool houses will be recategorized as 80 years.
[2:51:45] And here we are, saying we're only allowed to have any age use because we actually hold so many permits for a year.
[2:51:54] Thank you for your patience for being here.
[2:51:56] I really appreciate that.
[2:51:59] In Rolling Hill.
[2:52:07] I will try. Can you hear me now? Okay. In Rolling Hills, we did two cycles of housing
[2:52:16] element, and I think that Syria referring to the most recent cycles, which is what
[2:52:21] we're on. But I think what's not really shared in the general public is that in order to
[2:52:29] He was a probably housing stock rolling hills.
[2:52:33] Rolling hills had to rezone a property in Rolling Hills.
[2:52:37] For I want to say, I forget, I think 18 units.
[2:52:43] Everyone's rene as different, so it's relative.
[2:52:46] So Rancho del Mar High School, or the site,
[2:52:51] or the next to John Fisher, some people
[2:52:53] mentioned that that's their church.
[2:52:55] It's that site in which it was rezone.
[2:52:57] And following that, ACD was then able to recognize with that reason of that copy that the rest of the housing stock can be filled with ACD.
[2:53:09] Okay. So, okay, very much.
[2:53:13] Rancho del Mar has been identified as some sort of a site.
[2:53:18] So, you know, a lot of people here are upset about their Christian signs to church site,
[2:53:23] and rightly so, it's going to be, you know, 100 plus units on that one specific site.
[2:53:29] Thank God I don't live next to that site.
[2:53:32] But is there a way still to increase the number of aid units so that we can do something
[2:53:41] similar in that one kind of identify smaller sites where the impact would be far less significant
[2:53:47] both traffic, potential crime, whatever the other issues may be and minimize having a site
[2:53:57] I've been Christian and science church with well over 100 units and then we have one side of the man on a baby 17 one side of the 17 and
[2:54:06] Potentially we have two smaller sites like that with a hundred and twenty five eighty-two. So they were to justify that
[2:54:14] It was hard enough
[2:54:17] For us to convince HCD to accept 80 we're saying ten eighty here. They're zero and
[2:54:25] and 2018, that there is very minimal in the city but in recent months.
[2:54:32] So, if you went back to what I believe to be the Royne Hills stop process, which is bring
[2:54:38] us your farms, bring us your pool houses, any other secondary structure, and we will give
[2:54:44] you a permit for an ADU. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the previous days with
[2:54:50] of the secondary structure at Grant Brothers Unit at Koolhouse.
[2:54:53] Bring them in, we'll give you a permit as an ADU, we can count those.
[2:55:00] Is there any way to do that?
[2:55:03] I'll take that one. Yes, it's possible. What HCDs are relying on historical data to demonstrate to them that EDU is the right way to go in adding housing stock, you know, community, but based on historical data. So I think at the onset of rolling houses were sued. We didn't have much data, but we did tell them the number of applications that were in the works. And so they took that as real good data to say,
[2:55:31] Okay, well, we believe you, but you got to remember that the rena number is significantly smaller than the rena numbers here
[2:55:38] And so there is a possible way in which if the community demonstrates that we have data to back it up
[2:55:45] That somehow mid cycle
[2:55:48] Following the end of the cycle the beginning of the next
[2:55:52] Housing element because isn't going to go away
[2:55:54] That we can convince ACD that a use is the housing stock that's most suitable for the need
[2:56:00] That is possible, but don't you think if you educated the community that is one potential avenue you would have a lot of you to get the microprime?
[2:56:09] Yeah, okay, thank you.
[2:56:21] Good evening, my name is Daniel Income. I've been here about close to 70 years. I'm a artist on a good day.
[2:56:32] I'm not so good day, I'm not, but I wanted to speak, I wasn't planning to speak, but
[2:56:39] I wanted to say a few things about both churches and the school.
[2:56:45] Years ago I had, in my studio, I had a collector combined.
[2:56:49] He was Vice President of UNI Count, and he came up the steps and he said, hi, Dan, it's
[2:56:57] great to meet you.
[2:56:58] I heard you were a great investment.
[2:57:00] and I thought, wait a minute, you know, he didn't strike me favorably right from the
[2:57:08] window. And so he came in and he looked at the artwork and he looked at the paintings
[2:57:13] and I waited for a response and he looked at me, you know, was favorable and I said, you
[2:57:20] know, we'll say Bob, I said, Bob, you know, you're a great businessman and a leader. I said,
[2:57:29] And he said, let me ask you, what do you think of great investments in life?
[2:57:37] And he said, oh, well, let me think of property, goal, stocks, he gave me all the answers.
[2:57:49] And I said, boy, those are great.
[2:57:51] But, you know, I really think the greatest investment in any of us here in Maine, in the community, is in our soul.
[2:58:01] And so I said, I think our soul is the greatest investment because we have it forever.
[2:58:09] And so I'm concerned when we talk about closing the churches, closing the schools.
[2:58:16] We are shooting ourselves in the foot as a community because if our community doesn't retain its soul and it's spirit, it'll be a debt community.
[2:58:26] And so I'm sorry you have to go through this with Sacramento.
[2:58:30] I know none of us want to deal with it, but at some point we probably have to take a stand.
[2:58:36] Thank you.
[2:58:38] Thank you.
[2:58:38] I
[2:58:42] promise I will be really quick, really quick.
[2:58:44] Four kids went to town in country, Olympic graduates,
[2:58:47] excellent school, excellent staff, excellent teachers.
[2:58:50] Excellent location.
[2:58:53] We asked you to take us off your list,
[2:58:56] but I know that you are in a hard place.
[2:58:59] It's a you problem, it's a me problem, it's a us problem.
[2:59:02] What you need to do is give us more information.
[2:59:06] The community is in the dark.
[2:59:08] please, as a, as, you know, PBS states, give us as much information as you can.
[2:59:15] It's not going to wait, like the manager said, every eight years is a cycle.
[2:59:19] Let's break that cycle, give us the information so we can vote properly, get
[2:59:25] some of these guys out, get someone in who's gonna, that's so it's not this eight
[2:59:29] years six-year cycle. We need to break this cycle, give us the information, give us
[2:59:35] candidates who are going to vote against us. Give us anything. Let's move forward, but
[2:59:39] tackle it now so we can get rid of it and tackle Sacramento. Thank you.
[2:59:47] Thank you.
[2:59:58] Council.
[3:00:00] Staff. My name is John Connelly. I am one of the owners, one of the partners of the round of
[3:00:07] a building and I also have an interest in the melodic over building. So when the gentleman spoke
[3:00:14] earlier about being fair and equitable about naming the properties, I'm all for that.
[3:00:21] This would be fair and equitable because I have interest in two of the three properties
[3:00:25] that were named.
[3:00:29] And I feel that, you know, like the gentleman went down the list and said,
[3:00:34] you know, this is required, this is required, this is required. And the shot down each one,
[3:00:40] we could do the same thing for both buildings that we had, that were blue, not a bay and the
[3:00:46] malaga coat. The choices were made on the information that isn't true. And I want to invite you all
[3:00:55] to come over and try our new elevator to live on a bay building. Look at the patio, we've
[3:01:02] built a lot of money into both buildings over the last couple of years, a lot. Come on by,
[3:01:07] check them out. And the owners have provided space for work and community services for years,
[3:01:15] years. And we want to keep doing that. You know, we're the heirs of the original builders and they
[3:01:22] I had a dream to provide these buildings and this space for this community to have.
[3:01:28] We'd like to keep it that way.
[3:01:38] I ask you to give us a break, take us off the list, everybody wants to say that.
[3:01:45] But we believe that we're trying to be a good part of this community.
[3:01:49] And I also want to say I've never been to St. Francis before, but I want to go to school there now.
[3:01:57] I would like to support St. Francis and people who are really putting it out there for them and that's a great thing, but as long as we're talking about community, you know, we are part of this community too, we want to stay that way.
[3:02:13] And also I spent a lot of time over the last two days in the HCD website, and they do an awful lot of talking about supporting local governments and all these programs and all these things are going to happen.
[3:02:26] to do for local governments. I don't know where it is or what it is, but I hope I hope they
[3:02:32] can help you out or we're mining all the resources that they're saying they have. Thank you.
[3:02:39] Thank you. I
[3:02:46] live at the corner of Via Camposina and the San Diego Campo, which means directly across
[3:02:51] the driveway to the Christian scientist church. I wasn't planning on saying anything I can say
[3:02:56] that comes nice just to listen because the reason I'm up here is because I just found out about this
[3:03:01] five days ago because someone put a letter in my mailbox informing me in this meeting.
[3:03:07] I went to two my neighbors next door to tell them they had not heard about it either.
[3:03:11] So my complaint is the lack of information that's coming out to the community.
[3:03:15] I think for something this important, it would have been nice to have gotten, you know,
[3:03:20] mailings, paper mailings, not emails, because I was not connected to the email system.
[3:03:25] So, you know, I think it would have been nice and appropriate for all members of the community to be informed of what was going on, you know, for months, years.
[3:03:35] This is the first I've heard of it several days ago.
[3:03:38] I brought this property three years ago.
[3:03:40] We have plans to renovate and remodel.
[3:03:44] And at this point, I'm honestly thinking, is that really how I want to spend my money or should we be selling?
[3:03:48] Because I don't know what the future holds.
[3:03:50] So I just wanted to say that I appreciate, you know, some better communication if that's possible in the future, so thank you.
[3:03:58] Thank you.
[3:04:00] Good
[3:04:05] evening.
[3:04:06] My name is Tim Schaefer and I'm the representative of the Christian Science Church.
[3:04:11] Our church previously expressed opposition to the housing element because we're not going anywhere.
[3:04:17] They're
[3:04:20] firmly committed to staying in our current location.
[3:04:22] We love this city, we love our neighbors, and we love our property.
[3:04:28] That being said, we were concerned about whether there was going to be an eminent domain situation.
[3:04:36] And so we consulted a land use attorney who advised us that resounding the property
[3:04:41] would not negatively impact our church's ability to continue our property.
[3:04:48] So knowing that the city is in a tight spot, we are not as strongly opposed to being on the list as we were before.
[3:04:55] We have no plans of selling, no plans of going anywhere. We want to be helpful.
[3:05:00] We are going to move to our community and if we're zoning our property is a way to protect the city from the builder's remedy and it allows our church to continue as we are. We can look at that. Thank you.
[3:05:35] isn't this wonderful two and a half hours we've been hearing all of the accolades and
[3:05:40] great obscenities and now fantastic guys are you guys are in the dilemma oh my gosh
[3:05:45] Secretary no who needs this well we did we have to come together and figure out a way
[3:05:53] to resolve this issue is going to affect all of us I'm a resident of pve for 50 years
[3:06:03] plus. 39 of those years, my lovely bride, Ms. Harriet, has been a teacher at a
[3:06:11] town and country school. She's educated many of the folks around here. I said
[3:06:17] let's use a short hand. How many folks either went to school or educating their
[3:06:24] children there? The majority of the folks in the house raise their hands. You guys
[3:06:31] have a challenge in front of you. I'm here to advocate to take St. Francis Church and
[3:06:40] tell him country school off to list. I mean come on. You want to go against the
[3:06:47] church and the school? Good luck with that. Thank you very much okay so I'm gonna
[3:06:56] go ahead and close the public comment and I'm gonna take a five minute break so
[3:07:02] We'll be back here at 10 minutes, right?
[3:07:06] We'll be back at 9.15.
[3:22:04] Thank you for listening to each other and being respectful. There are a couple before we launch into council deliberations, and we're just a couple of things that were brought up by the various speakers that I wanted to touch upon. I think we answered the question around. Have we really maxed out the potential around ADUs, at least in terms of, to the extent that staff has worked with HCD.
[3:22:29] trying to get that number as high as they can to date. The other thing I wanted to touch
[3:22:36] upon, we also talked about the comments around lost time when you guys have been doing for
[3:22:42] the last couple of years.
[3:22:46] One of the things that we talked about at our January 23rd meeting
[3:22:50] and it didn't dawn on me until Mr. Criley made the comment and that it wasn't in today's
[3:22:58] presentation was, when we talk about all the sites that staff and council has
[3:23:05] looked at, one of the areas that we didn't touch upon tonight was a number of
[3:23:11] the commercial areas in La Nota Bay as well as Malaga, COVID, what we found was
[3:23:19] that they were so fragmented in terms of the number of owners and the size of the
[3:23:26] lots that they didn't represent reasonable options.
[3:23:35] And that's how the discussion had to be somewhat not
[3:23:38] to be shifted over to the patio building site.
[3:23:41] I did want to make sure people realized
[3:23:43] that we did in deep look at those sites,
[3:23:46] especially from a mixed use overlay standpoint.
[3:23:49] The other comment I just wanted to make was around
[3:23:54] what low income means.
[3:23:57] and it carries, for some, a connotation.
[3:24:01] Low income housing can be senior housing.
[3:24:06] It can be disabled and adult housing.
[3:24:09] It can be teacher, new teacher housing,
[3:24:11] new police officer housing.
[3:24:13] All of those professions or life situations
[3:24:19] that seniors aren't a profession,
[3:24:22] they all qualify under the income requirements.
[3:24:27] So I just want to keep that out there, that there is an opportunity to better serve our own residents, our own residents that are seniors, our own residents that might be disabled, the teachers that want to teach in our schools, the officers that we want more department.
[3:24:44] So, I just want to put some additional context around what type of people might move into.
[3:24:53] if low or very low income, how do you do that?
[3:25:00] I mean, if it were to be built, what that potential occupant might be. So those were the things I wanted to touch upon from what I've heard in the comments. Is anybody else want to touch upon anything?
[3:25:19] What is the discussion about ADU's and calculating and thinking about time periods?
[3:25:26] PDE is unique and that we, when I say we, residents, not the communities of power.
[3:25:33] If we have an arms-length relationship between PEHA and CC&Rs,
[3:25:38] and we all talk about our CC&Rs, our CC&Rs are not governed by this municipality.
[3:25:44] We are elected to represent.
[3:25:49] Up until a few years ago, the CCNRs, which again are subject to part of the city, restricted
[3:25:56] the ability to have, and if you think of ways that one, the designers of the city went
[3:26:02] about this, you were not allowed to have a second kitchen, and that's how with their intent
[3:26:10] they went about saying, well, people are going to want to have a cool house.
[3:26:14] But we don't want it to turn into a second residence.
[3:26:17] So in CCNR, we're going to restrict a second kitchen.
[3:26:22] The architect got created, and it was like, you know, a plug-in stove, but it didn't work anyway.
[3:26:26] So they didn't get more creative.
[3:26:27] Well, all that was pushed out by legislation where the legislature passed the law
[3:26:36] that specifically targeted CCNRs and online associations and relatively used blue completely through that.
[3:26:47] I'll skip my political opinions on that, you can figure out by my tone and my voice how I feel.
[3:26:53] The reality is when you come back and look at this situation and you look at the ADU calculations,
[3:26:58] you heard the story about having to go back to HDD and have a conversation about it in the average.
[3:27:04] Thank God they agreed to do it because part of the reason that we couldn't get the average
[3:27:08] job was because of CCNR restrictions here in the PPE, there were no any use allowed up
[3:27:16] until that point.
[3:27:17] So then when you have to turn around and go backwards and take an average, you're in a real
[3:27:21] pinhole.
[3:27:22] So that was that.
[3:27:25] The other one.
[3:27:27] Let's talk about the third rail on this town, open space.
[3:27:32] I don't want to get too into this because this is recorded video and it goes all over the place, but I'm just going to say
[3:27:38] The minute that you start seeding and letting go of that, that's the beginning of the end
[3:27:43] Everyone here this evening was all upset about sites and wanted to protect sites, and we are of course in the difficult
[3:27:50] I'm going to use the word everybody used to make a tickle of having to make balanced challenging choices
[3:27:57] 28% of our cities is parkline slash open space
[3:28:02] You know, you can argue that there are some other sites that go beyond that 28 percent.
[3:28:08] Every one of us tonight, and I'll argue that those of us around here have similar feelings,
[3:28:13] want to protect and preserve what is this place that we also live with you in as residents.
[3:28:22] And I'll speak only for myself.
[3:28:23] If we deed one inch of the parkland of open space out, whether by a vote or not, that will
[3:28:33] be the beginning of the end of allowing the rest to continue.
[3:28:42] One other comment, there was a discussion about assessments.
[3:28:47] The city, as an entity, does not have the ability to assess owners.
[3:28:53] Assessments can only occur under the CCNR by the Pebbles for Insum's Association.
[3:28:59] So that effort, I'm not going to get into the forum, but it's not anything else that's
[3:29:04] on the table right in here because of an election that just sort of happened.
[3:29:10] That would have to refer under that organization and the efforts that we could all be involved
[3:29:18] in his home owners and I'm your elected city representative.
[3:29:22] I like to call it Pest of the League.
[3:29:25] So while there's the Our Neighborhood Voices effort,
[3:29:27] there's also the defendant protect the CCNR's effort.
[3:29:30] Our decision to have here relative to the housing element
[3:29:33] has absolutely nothing to do with the CCNR's minus the fact
[3:29:39] that we and Jim and I when we had the I talk forum,
[3:29:42] that everything we could in looking at all these sites
[3:29:44] very early on in Gina can attest to this.
[3:29:46] The first PowerPoint that she showed us, fortunately, we were on Zoom, so I could turn off my video, I told her.
[3:29:58] because it was it was not.
[3:30:03] The first slide that was in front of my face. Let me also say thank you for coming, thank you for speaking, thank you for all your contributions, and I went to time at your preschool. So those are my non-publicities.
[3:30:26] There you go. I just, I actually had one quick question. I was talking to some folks down there, and we were talking about the open space question that Michael referred to.
[3:30:35] And all of the property that is owned in the OS is owned by the city.
[3:30:41] Is it reasonable to assume that HCD would require us to sell anything that we will re-zomb
[3:30:48] that purpose?
[3:30:51] Yes.
[3:30:51] Okay.
[3:30:52] By the way, I figured it's much so.
[3:30:54] I mean, you know, it's not enough just to re-zomb the OS parts hall you'd have to sell
[3:30:58] it.
[3:30:59] So keep that in mind.
[3:31:05] Okay.
[3:31:05] I do have one question and it came from the speakers.
[3:31:09] When we met January 23rd, we heard what at least was news to me was that HCD requires
[3:31:21] the 199 plus the 15% buffer. Is the buffer preferred? Is it required? What is it that
[3:31:30] that we have to come up with here.
[3:31:36] So it's part of the Millnet Laws Law,
[3:31:44] and it is in statute,
[3:31:46] but it's the best way to explain it is
[3:31:50] that if there's ever a site in your inventory
[3:31:53] and somebody comes in with a lesser density,
[3:31:57] so they don't build out to the max.
[3:32:00] that site hasn't. You still have loved oversight and you can't go back and find
[3:32:07] other sites. You already have the buffer in another site. That's basically what
[3:32:14] that means and so there are the 15% is in the guidelines as or it says
[3:32:22] is recommended, they don't have a precise number of offer but it is built into the actual
[3:32:34] No, no, no.
[3:32:35] It's not illegal.
[3:32:36] No, it is illegal requirement.
[3:32:39] The law firm's.
[3:32:40] Yes.
[3:32:40] I don't believe so.
[3:32:42] Is anybody that's in the office?
[3:32:43] No.
[3:32:44] Yes.
[3:32:46] Is it a guidelines?
[3:32:48] No.
[3:32:49] Do we have the statute for no net loss?
[3:33:02] It's in the guidance.
[3:33:33] I think there's two different questions here. One is no net loss and one is whether there
[3:33:41] is a miracle requirement for the buffer.
[3:34:00] Just get the answer and tell us what he says.
[3:34:18] No net laws as government code 658-631.
[3:34:36] Okay, the question is the numerical buffer required for the site inventory.
[3:34:46] I'm talking to the attorney.
[3:34:48] Wait, I'm talking to a lawyer.
[3:35:16] So
[3:35:25] what he's telling us is it may not be codified, but he believes that HDD does require a 15 to 30 percent, but for when they're reviewing housing elements for
[3:35:40] for the certification.
[3:35:45] It's in their official guidance document.
[3:35:48] It's like this.
[3:35:49] This is long, I'm sorry.
[3:35:52] Okay, where are you?
[3:35:53] You have to know.
[3:35:56] It's in their official guidance and so
[3:36:00] if we wanted to go and challenge the bunker,
[3:36:03] we would probably have to end up getting it forward to a breach.
[3:36:06] We wouldn't have to have the bunker.
[3:36:07] and we'll be at, you know, a difficult argument
[3:36:10] that problems are more important.
[3:36:12] Did everyone hear that?
[3:36:14] No.
[3:36:14] He said that if you didn't want to,
[3:36:17] if we didn't want to comply with a 15 to 30 percent buffer,
[3:36:21] we would have to get a court to agree
[3:36:24] that we don't need to do that.
[3:36:27] And we don't have time to do that.
[3:36:29] But that's not correct.
[3:36:32] You can submit it as an HCD doesn't like it
[3:36:36] and don't come back.
[3:36:36] But you don't have to get it toward order.
[3:36:40] OK, this isn't open mic.
[3:36:42] So this is.
[3:36:43] That's a landing system, can you tell it out?
[3:36:45] Yes.
[3:36:46] The real landing system is already together.
[3:36:49] So how do you, for example, on the ADU line, we have 80 units.
[3:36:57] How does that get allocated?
[3:36:59] What's the methodology to allocate between low-very, low-moderate
[3:37:02] and then above-moderate?
[3:37:03] So the Southern California Association of Governments created a study that looked at patterns
[3:37:13] of affordability with ADs and basically was a based on historical precedent on how they
[3:37:21] are typically rented out.
[3:37:23] So it's based on a study that HCB accepts.
[3:37:27] So,
[3:37:30] it's a good thing that's there because in some counties there is no historical precedent
[3:37:38] or their cogs or association of governments doesn't have any kind of evidence to support
[3:37:47] income brackets and they can't assign any of their ADUs for affordability.
[3:37:54] like the central valley, they can't do it.
[3:38:00] So could we, what could we try to put our 80, 80, 80 years
[3:38:05] in the very low and moderate category,
[3:38:07] divided between those two categories?
[3:38:12] We would have to provide substantial evidence
[3:38:16] based on another city that has shown a track record
[3:38:20] of all of their ADUs being rented and documented
[3:38:28] at those levels?
[3:38:32] So where I was headed, you guys probably don't remember the chart, but
[3:38:35] where I was headed, for example, on above moderate, our Reno requirement is 25 units,
[3:38:42] our vacant single family lots at 41 meets the 25 plus the buffer, so they don't want
[3:38:48] anything else in that category. I want to move the other stuff to the other end. I'm willing
[3:38:52] to put the buffer somewhere else, but I don't want to pull over the buffer.
[3:39:00] There's a lot of bills you should say for citizens.
[3:39:03] I'm sorry, we're not.
[3:39:04] We're not.
[3:39:09] Sorry, I don't think you're getting on the aid of use in the bank.
[3:39:13] I don't think you get the opportunity to move those from above the water.
[3:39:16] They're kind of dictated.
[3:39:17] Please Michael.
[3:39:20] This question I think is for Gina.
[3:39:23] So let me ask this.
[3:39:24] With the analysis you've done, assuming that the income categories are not modified.
[3:39:30] If we use the combination of vacant single-family locks, we include the Malangal Code of Site 1.
[3:39:39] We, please don't react, because it's going to cost money.
[3:39:42] We remove the same Francis Episcopal Church, and we don't change the first Church of Christ scientist.
[3:39:50] And we leave, sorry, with residential housing opportunity overlaid, not the commercial
[3:40:00] All over, like, combined with the ADU count that has been accepted in 80, will those numbers
[3:40:08] combined be to the requirements, including, I'll call it the low end of the required
[3:40:15] buffer? Can you clarify what numbers you're talking about? The ADU's are 80, same
[3:40:22] Family Laws is 41, so that's 121 there.
[3:40:26] All right, what are the others that you're talking about?
[3:40:29] So the big and single family law is 41.
[3:40:32] Malorie closed site one with a mixed-used overlay
[3:40:35] because it's existing commercial, 17.
[3:40:40] St. Francis, the physical plan of removing Francis,
[3:40:43] first church of Christ's scientists in the table I'm looking at
[3:40:46] with the residential opportunity overlay at the lower density
[3:40:51] is listed at 71.
[3:40:54] The 80 you've been talking about is listed at 80.
[3:41:02] What is that total
[3:41:02] up is that call?
[3:41:09] The answer is going to turn on whether or not the buffer has to be applied
[3:41:14] to each income category. Because when I do math, you have those sites up. You don't get to...
[3:41:25] That was the question I had at January 23rd. Me was whether the buffer was an aggregate or if it
[3:41:30] was by an income category and I was told it was an aggregate. So can we clarify if that's true?
[3:41:39] I was told it was an aggregate and I would like the, it
[3:41:49] could be aggregate because when you use
[3:41:51] another site you can always change it. So yes. So when you $199 by category? Yes.
[3:42:03] So $229.
[3:42:05] Right? The other 30 doesn't matter what category the other is. Correct?
[3:42:10] It's going to make it lots. In fact, all is making lots of good news.
[3:42:14] Exactly. That kind of goes back to where it was.
[3:42:17] That's our bottom.
[3:42:19] That's the bottom.
[3:42:20] Okay, so let's get to 190.
[3:42:26] Why don't we, let me ask this.
[3:42:29] We heard from a representative first church of Christ scientists.
[3:42:31] This is one of the last speakers he said.
[3:42:36] Resonance.
[3:42:37] Is there anyone with them?
[3:42:38] It's not fair that the president's rolling out the streets.
[3:42:42] This is close discussion now.
[3:42:47] It's like a late-night meeting.
[3:42:49] Mike, I'm in the lower-down.
[3:42:50] He's going to be doing that at the lower-downs.
[3:42:52] It's just too old now.
[3:42:53] Yeah, that's a good question.
[3:42:54] Can we get away with that at the lower-downs?
[3:42:57] Yes.
[3:43:03] So I just quickly did.
[3:43:05] And the lowest density we can go for the first church of Christ scientists would be 23
[3:43:15] do you per acre?
[3:43:19] We cannot.
[3:43:21] Why is that?
[3:43:22] Because we do not have enough land.
[3:43:29] It doesn't reach even if we love the 199.
[3:43:33] 29. So how many units is that at 23? So again, it's 23 on the 5, 4, 4, 6, 3. Can we
[3:43:40] break that apart? It's two parcels over there.
[3:43:46] The
[3:43:50] way you're having a drawing doesn't show where the parcel is. Right. It's right through
[3:43:54] the middle of the building. You know, I don't know that there, if we could have, I don't
[3:44:01] think that there's any reason why we couldn't have two different overlay zones on each
[3:44:06] the parcels so if you really get the creative it'd be more work for you to
[3:44:11] re-zone but so
[3:44:16] help us understand what that would look like and what the
[3:44:19] application is.
[3:44:22] I think it might be difficult for you to have two different
[3:44:27] zoning overlays for one site with two parcels because you didn't know about
[3:44:40] 25. So in the 25-view raker on Malaga and 25 on the first church of Christ for the
[3:44:50] 325-6 acre site.
[3:44:55] And what side of the...
[3:45:01] Which parcel is the three-and-a-half acre parcel, the one that fronts PV drug north? Because that's the only one. Yes.
[3:45:09] Okay. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to have, to even have the sun and the scene of that would be.
[3:45:18] When we spoke earlier, I thought you would tell me that that three and a half acre lot could have it to one tube.
[3:45:25] If it was residential lonely, I never say that it has to be 23.
[3:45:32] If it was combined with the
[3:45:43] math here,
[3:45:57] maybe that was when I was looking at it with another site.
[3:46:00] But now, with my mouth, hold on, I've got lots of tabs here with just, so, yeah, I would have to be twenty-fucked.
[3:46:13] Could hold on, I just...
[3:46:36] Here's the map. The bigger car solace, like, it's really mostly a campus scene now.
[3:46:43] I think you've got to do them together.
[3:46:46] I don't know, Dave, just hold it on its head.
[3:46:48] We do.
[3:46:49] Jessica.
[3:46:52] Okay.
[3:46:55] Okay.
[3:46:58] Thank you.
[3:47:00] That's it.
[3:47:00] That's it.
[3:47:01] Okay.
[3:47:02] Okay.
[3:47:03] So.
[3:47:04] Okay.
[3:47:05] So we do.
[3:47:08] If we do on the first first church, press scientist, and we do
[3:47:13] the residential only, and we want the lowest, density possible,
[3:47:17] possible. Tell me again why that can't be 20 units per acre? Because that's what you have here.
[3:47:25] 20 votes is 20 to 25, but why can't they do 20?
[3:47:55] I'm going to say it here instead. There
[3:47:59] was an email from staffed us that had the Mallory Coast site one, the St. Francis
[3:48:04] the principal church, the first church Christ scientist at the 20th to 25th
[3:48:12] D.U. such as in N.A.D.U.'s, if I were to...
[3:48:18] That's the key to success in the tool.
[3:48:21] Here's the thing, if you...
[3:48:24] Okay, so in her alternative here at the 20th to 25th D.U.s. per acre, that's 92 units.
[3:48:34] we need 87 anyway. So we need 87 after you subtract everything else. Like if
[3:48:43] after you account for A to use, assuming that we're, I don't know what direction
[3:48:48] we're headed here, I'm assuming I'm, I'm parroting what, what Michael was
[3:48:51] suggesting which was, you know,
[3:49:03] the rocks out there, right? So I do think we have
[3:49:06] to spread this around though, and that tips, so to me the comments of all the
[3:49:10] speakers, which again, I mean a lot of left, but thank you. Is that, is the spreading
[3:49:18] around? And we have to spread around. And so that's why I'm trying to get to residential
[3:49:24] only small, that 20 units per acre number, and spread it across the two church sites and
[3:49:41] It can be pretty loud in the view, but it's good to know when it's going to get it all.
[3:49:47] Hi, the problem is, I think in the view, for example if you wanted to split it up the
[3:49:53] way right now, then you just put a handful of units on the patio building and I don't think
[3:49:57] it except that because...
[3:50:00] We have 17-17 of the- those are 17, I'm sorry. I was being so funny. My husband and my children would say I screamed constant.
[3:50:18] We were saying that the 17 didn't work for HD on the Malaga Code site and the Lenape Bay site, but 16s a minimum and those are 17. Those were working.
[3:50:31] Last week, when we talked about the
[3:50:32] talked about this, we actually talked about taking both of those off and spreading
[3:50:36] in between the two church churches.
[3:50:40] But I think we either have to do that and spread it across the two churches
[3:50:45] or across all four.
[3:50:51] I agree with the spreading.
[3:50:54] What gives me pause about a couple of things.
[3:51:00] When I first saw the Church of Christ scientist
[3:51:03] and solve 116 number I choked.
[3:51:10] We have to think about the safety of our
[3:51:13] residents and neighbors and egress and that's part of why the churches are
[3:51:20] appealing because they have better access to egress. So for me that's where
[3:51:29] a little bit tricky because there aren't a lot of ways to get out of La Nota Bay.
[3:51:38] But it's on a Bay Street.
[3:51:44] Going through the Accord.
[3:51:50] If there's a higher or an emergency, I'm worried about egress and egress for evacuation.
[3:51:56] Are you talking about, you said La Nota Bay?
[3:51:58] But then you said to be a current-
[3:51:59] Still not a baby, but I think you've known.
[3:52:01] But if you're in, but not a baby, the only way out
[3:52:04] is to go in the e-drome or to go to the accordor.
[3:52:07] The intersection, right?
[3:52:09] Where else are you going to get out of the area?
[3:52:11] I'm just interested, sir.
[3:52:12] What does that mean,
[3:52:16] awkward, awkward, awkward?
[3:52:23] Let me say this.
[3:52:25] I'm just thinking out loud here with what Michael said.
[3:52:29] So I think that I continue to think the Church of Christ
[3:52:33] scientists just definitely on the table. I think of the two other sites that are on this table,
[3:52:41] and there's other sites that we can consider, but of the smaller code for the patio building,
[3:52:47] the small area and malloc code we're talking about is clearly underutilized relative. I mean,
[3:52:53] it's certainly underutilized relative to the patio building.
[3:53:04] One thing that gives me
[3:53:06] cause about that is that there are six homes that may have views over the time
[3:53:11] these existing buildings.
[3:53:20] Yes, they're taking lots of ideas. No, you don't understand.
[3:53:28] Thank you.
[3:53:38] We don't have the numbers. We're short a little bit.
[3:53:46] I'm sorry, sir. Could you please stop yelling out at us? We're trying to solve
[3:53:51] problem here. This is an opportunity to talk. Please let us know the problem. You're interrupting the problem, the discussion we ask you to reframe, please.
[3:54:03] What I'm coming up with is we have the 41 of the vacant lots. We have 80, 80 use the church at 71.
[3:54:15] one. And if we include it, we'll not obey any malle code that both of the 17 that gets
[3:54:23] us to 226 and my calculation is we need to 29 if we're going to have a 15% profit.
[3:54:32] Is that
[3:54:32] correct? What's your first thing and what's your
[3:54:36] church number? Sorry, what's your church number?
[3:54:40] 71 for the. That's not right. 71 is only for the 356. So do it with the whole protocol
[3:54:46] That's all I think we're there.
[3:54:47] Right.
[3:54:47] Oh, if I did it.
[3:54:48] Okay.
[3:54:49] Yeah.
[3:54:49] I was looking for it.
[3:54:49] I was working off on our schedule.
[3:54:51] Yeah.
[3:54:51] I mean, I need so many.
[3:54:52] I need two.
[3:54:53] That's my original question.
[3:55:00] So, so I'm sorry, but where are we? When we say we're there 81 plus 80 plus 41 80 use and vacant lots, right? That's a 121 that's set still. We're adding 92. 92 was the lower dead city for the Church of Christ scientist. That brings us to 13. So we need another 16. Did you claim the malignant dose? No, I didn't do that. So it's you need one of those two.
[3:55:30] two sides.
[3:55:56] You can see if there's another way to deviate out between the two terms.
[3:56:09] Okay.
[3:56:10] So the St. Francis is one parcel at 2.84 acres and 20 units per acre is 57.
[3:56:20] Well, because we don't really know how that mine's cattle.
[3:56:24] Victoria, I just, you know, before we go too far down this, I mean, I hear what you're saying
[3:56:29] about wanting it to be balanced, I don't disagree with the point you're making.
[3:56:35] I think that the problem with St. Francis' two things.
[3:56:40] Number one is, I actually agree with the folks who are saying that the argument that I like the most
[3:56:47] is that I think the building is architecturally significant.
[3:56:53] And that clearly there's a strong argument that has been made that it is not underutilized
[3:57:03] since it's both bringing us preschool and as a church and as a bunch of programs going on.
[3:57:11] So, you know, I'm not super inclined to split the baby's inner.
[3:57:37] David, why don't you have a perspective on this?
[3:57:40] Let's see if I can move this meaning along.
[3:57:41] I'm out on St. Francis. I will vote now.
[3:57:52] David, where are you wearing any on this?
[3:58:03] I agree with the concerns about the architectural aspects of St. Francis.
[3:58:08] And if we can do it without St. Francis, I think that makes more sense.
[3:58:13] And is this for this government?
[3:58:15] For this government, yes.
[3:58:17] Okay, so that leaves us with the ADUs.
[3:58:21] AD and they get mod of 41.
[3:58:24] First Church of Christ in 92.
[3:58:28] We need to add another 16 so is it not going to come, is it not a bay, is it boat, any proposals on the table?
[3:58:37] I mean it really has to only be one but it can't split it.
[3:58:39] It only needs one, yeah you can't split it because when you're below the 16th threshold.
[3:58:46] I think the reality is when you go and look back at the challenges that we have of the important intersection,
[3:58:51] It's bad either way, but funneling traffic in and out of a lot of things, and by the way,
[3:58:58] anybody that thinks that council members make choices for their own benefit.
[3:59:02] This is about to smash my own stuff.
[3:59:05] So we don't.
[3:59:08] Moving traffic to that intersection, because we have not been able to expand it by whatever method
[3:59:13] and forget what it was or wasn't going to be, it's the challenge of adding more housing
[3:59:20] and moving through that intersection will make that untenable.
[3:59:25] So I think between the two sites and considering the business use,
[3:59:30] even though I understand it could continue at the patio building.
[3:59:33] Well, something was going on.
[3:59:35] It probably for this round makes most sense to put that in a gallery co-location.
[3:59:41] I'll agree with that.
[3:59:42] I'm going to.
[3:59:44] Is there a way that we could increase the density of the first church Christ and just pick it up and move that up the 16 or 17 units that we need?
[4:00:00] The density? I'm not comfortable doing that. I think we've already burned the nibs. The short answer to your question is absolutely yes. In fact, it's one of the options you have 116, when the sufficient of what we're proposing is to is to limit the impact to neighbors in the vicinity of there to use the lower density and only prevent 92 units.
[4:00:35] I'm sorry, ma'am, ma'am, if you're going to keep talking, I'm going to need to ask you to be removed. So please, I understand you're frustrated. We're doing the best we can with what we have. Thank you.
[4:00:52] Yeah,
[4:00:57] I don't love the 902 there, I prefer the 71, but there's no other way for us to get to our numbers, even if we threw in the oligarcho, unless we threw in St. Francis,
[4:01:13] and I think at this point...
[4:01:19] So what I'm hearing, just to repeat, actually, is there a motion on the table?
[4:01:28] Let's put it that way.
[4:01:32] Does somebody want to make a motion?
[4:01:38] Let me try and do it in my motion.
[4:01:42] We are not.
[4:01:42] Or are we sensitive to the allocation of the lower common-moderate and common-manence as a practical matter?
[4:01:49] It doesn't really have any effect.
[4:01:56] She's just checking the math on the various categories for income or categories for the sites.
[4:02:03] Yeah, that doesn't work.
[4:02:05] But I mean, Gina, the point, I guess it's the question that's, what's the method to,
[4:02:10] what's the method to splitting between very low and moderate?
[4:02:14] The sites are split 65% all the way.
[4:02:18] Okay, so it doesn't, okay.
[4:02:22] But at the end of the day, if someone comes in and they build a whole market rate, we
[4:02:27] just got to reallocate those to another site.
[4:02:28] Anyway, it doesn't make any difference.
[4:02:31] Okay.
[4:02:31] So I think that then maybe we have a submission where the issue here is we're going to submit
[4:02:40] to HCD, right?
[4:02:42] A proposed housing element?
[4:02:44] Yes.
[4:02:44] Okay, I'm sorry for any more questions because I don't think I understood your answer. I'm so sorry.
[4:02:50] So on the Reno line, I don't know what Pedro meant, but on the Reno line that it breaks down the 199
[4:02:58] by category.
[4:03:00] Don't we have to read those numbers?
[4:03:02] Yes, so we're not meeting those numbers with what we're proposing here. Yeah, we do.
[4:03:07] We get it's 80 use, 41 vacant single-fendent.
[4:03:11] I don't know. It has to be by Cat the one that she doesn't have any. No.
[4:03:18] Oh, we were talking about the individual site. How? Because for example,
[4:03:23] the Malgo Code is satisfying both the low, very low and the moderate. So within that site,
[4:03:29] we're splitting the entire area 65 percent in the cloud.
[4:03:38] What, where do you think the problem is?
[4:03:40] I said another way, the one ninety nine, do I have to have a hundred and twenty six
[4:03:47] a very low low?
[4:03:48] Yes.
[4:03:48] Okay, guys, we don't.
[4:03:50] If you're at which scenario are you looking for?
[4:03:54] We have forty eight EVUs, I see what you're looking for.
[4:03:58] We have eleven from the Malaga Coast site, and we have sixty for the church, it's one
[4:04:03] nineteen.
[4:04:04] Okay.
[4:04:04] We don't have twenty six.
[4:04:06] Are you are you looking at 20 do you for acre? Yes. Yes. We were talking about 90.
[4:04:12] Okay. Yeah. And the minimum we would need would be 23. Okay. So. And that ends up with how many units?
[4:04:21] Because what was in your presentation? Your presentation, the numbers in your presentation are 20.
[4:04:26] Well, no, that was if it was with the other church. She's taking it back. No, it wasn't.
[4:04:32] No, no. You can slide this up and down. It's just a matter of whether you get the units somewhere
[4:04:38] out. So this alternative was with the other church. If we eliminate St. Francis, we can't go
[4:04:44] that alone.
[4:04:52] So how many units does that end up? We were just saying we were comfortable going from
[4:04:56] from 116 to 92 at the church.
[4:04:58] Yeah, we think we-
[4:05:00] You're going to have to kick about 20. We got it, we got to talk through it more. What is how many units does that end of being? That would be of exactly 128, low, very low, 48 moderate, 68 above moderate. So your buffer would be, certainly, any above one. What's the total? If you're lined for the church. If you're at 23, do you purge?
[4:05:30] 106.
[4:05:31] 106.
[4:05:32] For low?
[4:05:33] It's 16.
[4:05:34] No.
[4:05:35] Low.
[4:05:35] Very low.
[4:05:36] Yeah.
[4:05:37] 37 moderns.
[4:05:40] So it's not the 92 we've been talking about.
[4:05:43] It's 106 right now.
[4:05:46] We only cut 10 units.
[4:05:53] 106 were two units short without any other site.
[4:06:02] But 88 use, the buffer.
[4:06:09] So my point is if you go to, if you get into 108 units on that site, then you're done.
[4:06:17] It's the one site, 88 use, 41 vacant single family lots plus 108.
[4:06:49] Okay.
[4:06:50] Gina, one more time.
[4:06:52] Slowly.
[4:06:52] for me. We can only do 20 units per acre on the first church of Christ scientist.
[4:07:02] We only were getting to 20 if we alluded to church properties, but if you have one church property it goes to 23.
[4:07:10] It goes to, yes, so 20 with bold, 23 only in this scenario with only Malaga.
[4:07:22] So,
[4:07:25] yes, you could only do 20 a per acre in bold church sites are included.
[4:07:32] Which has nothing to do with the Malaga COVID-19 database sites.
[4:07:37] Correct.
[4:07:38] So if I put a lot of it back, can I get to 20 on the church?
[4:07:43] Let's take a look here.
[4:07:46] I'm
[4:08:05] going to double check this man.
[4:08:08] So, yeah, if you have Malaco,
[4:08:10] Leonardo Bay at 25,
[4:08:14] first church of Christ at 20,
[4:08:19] you do meet the Reno.
[4:08:22] Yeah,
[4:08:28] you would have 130 low, very low, 49 moderate, 68 above moderate.
[4:08:37] This is a strategy question here about future housing on this.
[4:08:41] That's all I can say.
[4:09:09] Going down on the very low, low column.
[4:09:13] You have 48 for 80 use, 11 for Malacca code, 11 for LaNoda Bay, and 60 for the church, correct?
[4:09:21] Correct.
[4:09:21] Okay, going down the moderate column, you have five, five, eight years, six
[4:09:30] formalical, six-relinato-bay, thirty-two for the church. Correct, correct, and then
[4:09:36] twenty-seven and forty-one for the above. Correct.
[4:09:44] So, at these density ratings, this
[4:09:49] This is all predicated on a limit of three stories, right?
[4:09:56] Correct.
[4:09:56] So okay.
[4:09:58] I'm just...
[4:09:59] I'm thinking...
[4:10:00] I'm thinking about, I'm trying to evaluate the impact to the neighbors there. I mean, a three-story apartment building is, for a fine neighbor's side is not completely outrageous. It's not terribly in character, but it's not life.
[4:10:21] Well, it depends on the footprint and how many units are in it. Well, it would be, yeah, of course. So we're talking about 92 versus 16. What's the impact of the additional 24 units?
[4:10:33] units. I mean, that's true.
[4:10:39] A lot of cars. Yeah.
[4:10:46] I'm with Victoria. I think we can't, we can't
[4:10:52] put all the onus on the church that's being helpful and I think the way out of this is excuse
[4:11:03] Excuse me, it is to do the Malaga code,
[4:11:06] Lennata Bay, and the 92 at the first church of Christ.
[4:11:10] I just,
[4:11:12] as much as I don't love the egress issue
[4:11:14] at Lennata Bay, I think we need to spread, spread the pain
[4:11:19] as the guy with the crutch said.
[4:11:22] As I've said before, we should have a place
[4:11:24] in Lennata Bay not to add, but we don't.
[4:11:27] So, here we are.
[4:11:29] Could that put us over a budget?
[4:11:31] That's more units than we need.
[4:11:34] Well, the thing is, this puts us at 130 for very low low and we need 126. There's only
[4:11:41] a 4-buffer there and on the moderate we're only a over by 1. So it's all about moderate.
[4:11:48] It's the vacant lots that are doing that unless somebody wants to reason those as multi-family
[4:11:55] housing.
[4:11:55] I mean, I can't imagine the people on the Elivato or the Affernandes want to do.
[4:12:07] You're talking about the vacant lots right now that are above moderate.
[4:12:11] That's basically just...
[4:12:14] No, I'm just saying the only way to ship those out of above moderate is if we resound them
[4:12:19] into multi-family, which is not going to happen, so I think we're there.
[4:12:33] Reluctively I agree.
[4:12:34] Does
[4:12:47] someone have the matrix of how this works out with the proposal on the table?
[4:12:52] Is that something we can't prevent here, I don't believe.
[4:12:59] I think if we're going to make a motion, we need to have a document that read into the record.
[4:13:10] Do you want to see it?
[4:13:12] I just want to make sure we're clear on force.
[4:13:16] Mayor, maybe you should make the motion since you're going to announce.
[4:13:20] Okay, here we go.
[4:13:21] So I move that for our site selection for the very low slash low category, we do 48 ADUs,
[4:13:36] 11th at the mile of the cove site, 11th at the La Nota Bay site, 60th at the first church
[4:13:42] of Christ's scientist site for a total of 130, which means our 126 Reno requirement.
[4:13:49] For the moderate, I move that we have five ADUs, six at the Malaga Coast site, six at the Lennonada Bay site, 32 at the first
[4:14:00] Church of Christ scientists for a total of 49, which means our rena requirement of 48. For the above moderate, we have 27 ADUs, 41 vacant
[4:14:12] single family lots for a total of 68. That gives us a total going across the
[4:14:19] rows of 88 use. 41 make it single family lots. 17 sites at Nalagaco, 17 in La
[4:14:29] Nata Bay, 92 at the first church of Christ scientists for a total of 247 which
[4:14:37] which is 18 above R-229 with the buffer.
[4:14:56] Okay, that's assisting the city card.
[4:15:00] Please do a roll call vote on this.
[4:15:06] Councilman Kempz. Councilman McIntyre.
[4:15:15] Councilman Ross. Rose. Rose.
[4:15:35] Thank you all for your patience, also the council will you allow staff to submit the other
[4:15:47] a half of the draft to HCD for preliminary review at this time.
[4:15:54] Are we able to do that? Was that only agenda?
[4:16:10] Those sections already been conscious and I always needed fresh tonight to add on to
[4:16:14] that the actual sites. And on here, we've decided to propose to HCD for inclusions so
[4:16:21] that would all be part of what we're going to submit here to HCD for review.
[4:16:26] You'll have planning commission and then the City Council of the problem approval and adoption of the housing element.
[4:16:32] This is just a bit of an authority part of it.
[4:16:35] So would you please repeat what you want the motion to be?
[4:16:39] No, you're not.
[4:16:40] We don't need a motion.
[4:16:41] And I'm just going to give the council's authorization to allow us to submit the second part to HCB for informal review.
[4:16:52] All in favor?
[4:16:53] I opposed. You've done it. Thank you. Thank you all for your patience for this unpleasant undertaking. Meeting adjourned.