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green. Okay. Wanted to make sure we were
all on mic. So, yeah.

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» Okay. Thank you. Uh, any presentations?
>> There are none this evening.

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» None. Okay. First order of business is a
public hearing number 1977 to receive

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public comment regarding the conditional
use application for 31 through 49 Eastn

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Road submitted by Building Blocks LLC to
use as a child care center and for

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educational purposes. Uh Mr. Kenny,
would you take this over? Sure.

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» Could you just do a motion to open the
public hearing?

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» Okay. Uh I'll make a motion. Do we have
a second to open the meeting? Second.

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Okay. All in favor?
>> I

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» Okay, I'm just going to go ahead and
mark some exhibits administratively

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first before we actually get to the
public hearing. Uh the public hearing uh

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has been advertised in our newspaper of
general general circulation and that

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will be T1 on the 19th of July and the
26th of July. Uh T2 will be a a picture

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00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:13,920
that's in your packet, a copy of the
posting of this public hearing. Uh T3

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will be a copy of the conditional and
the posting is actually of two uh two

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different pictures which will both fall
under T2. Uh T3 will be a copy of the

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00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:29,120
additional conditional use application
uh received by the township on March

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23rd uh 2026.
Uh and in that uh will be an application

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uh several exhibits and illustrations.
Uh T4,

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hold on.
T4 will be a the recommendation of the

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Montgomery County uh planning commission
dated July 2nd uh 2026.

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As well as any recommendations that uh
the APA uh made related to this. Uh as

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you're well aware in the conditional use
process, the board of commissioners sits

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like the zoning hearing board in a quasi
judicial fashion. Um so uh one of the

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things we have to ask is if anyone is
seeking party status in this uh in this

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hearing. Uh party status doesn't mean
that you can't comment at the end of the

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hearing. There's always an opportunity
for public comment uh at the end of the

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hearing itself. The party status means
that you would go ahead uh you would

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live uh within generally 500 feet of uh
of the property that you would um uh or

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be a community organization uh
recognized by the township. Then you

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would have the ability to cross-examine
witnesses uh call any witnesses

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yourself. Uh so I just want to see for
the record is anyone requesting party

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status.
Okay, seeing that no one is requesting

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party status, I was given a series of
exhibits before this hearing uh by the

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applicant's attorney uh marked as A1.
And I'm going to keep one copy for my

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myself and then pass it down to the
board of commissioners. Uh and uh at

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this time, I would invite the
applicant's attorney to come up. Uh do

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you have any witnesses you want to swear
in? Okay, maybe we can swear them in

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00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,160
first.

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00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:33,680
Good evening. John Penningham for the
applicant and with me is the applicant

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00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:41,600
uh representative of the uh blocking
building blocks LLC Kel and to her left

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00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:47,199
is the landlord representative Nina Lang
Langden who will testify about the site

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00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:53,880
conditions. Uh K will testify about the
daycare center and its operations. So

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I'd ask that both of them be sorted.

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00:04:56,639 --> 00:05:02,120
» Y a N l.

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00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000
» Yes.

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00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:16,759
Mina. N I N A L. L A N G D O N

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00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:33,520
» you gave to me which I handed a board of
commissioners series uh exhibit A1 it's

49
00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:42,880
one two three four
uh six pages correct

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00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:48,919
» there and I also what handmark is A2
which is a site plan

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00:05:45,919 --> 00:05:48,919
too

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00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:55,840
» and the site plan was submitted to Mr.
to tell in advance and I believe part of

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your package then perhaps in fact he
gave us additional

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00:05:59,919 --> 00:06:03,160
» thank you.

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00:06:13,919 --> 00:06:22,560
So, if you if it's okay, I'll refer to K
as K and Nina as Nita and uh just

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00:06:19,039 --> 00:06:27,600
explain uh in a brawer scenario and have
Kay affirm what I'm about to say about

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00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:31,919
the daycare center if that's okay.
Kay has already been an operator of a

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daycare center in Chelham Township. Very
familiar with the state licensing

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00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:42,080
requirements and township licensing
requirements. Um she's aware from her

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00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:46,479
experience that the number of attendees,
a term used in your ordinance, or

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00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:53,759
children, uh is dictated by the square
footage of the site of the lease space.

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00:06:50,319 --> 00:07:02,479
She'll be leasing 31 Eastern Road, uh a
unit that I believe is um 3,495

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00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:07,520
square feet. So that measurement will be
determining factor of what uh how many

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00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:13,599
children can be attendees within the
daycare center. Um

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00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:19,120
recognizing the uh township's limitation
of 40 square ft. Um, so that's an

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00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:23,680
entirely will comply
position that that we would accept as a

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00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:28,639
condition that both with regard to the
township ordinance and the state

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licensing requirements of measurement. K
will comply with those dictates. So she

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00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:38,400
doesn't have a target number of
attendees. It's going to be a derivative

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00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:42,240
of that analysis both with the state uh
department of public welfare

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00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:46,560
requirements and uh your ordinance
requirements. Um

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» if there was some kind of approval, you
would agree that that is a condition?

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00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:58,000
» Yes.
>> Okay. Um there is um a uh on the site

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plan there's a proposed ex exterior
playground area and uh in working with

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00:08:01,199 --> 00:08:08,319
Mr. Patel uh reviewing the requirements
there will be a proposed fence

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00:08:05,919 --> 00:08:12,960
surrounding the playground area 6 feet
in height. We originally proposed eight

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00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:18,240
realized that was not compliant. So,
we'll comply with the six ft enclosure.

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00:08:15,759 --> 00:08:23,520
Um, there's another issue. Is this all
right if I just go through the issues?

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00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:28,319
Okay. Thank you. There's a a dumpster in
loca near location to the playground

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00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:35,599
area that is already planned to be
moved. Um, the difficulty is um Nina

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00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:40,479
will tell you that she has gotten
conflicting advice from the township as

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00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:46,800
where they can move that dumpster. uh
she wanted to move it to the Davis Road

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00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:51,279
uh portion of the site and uh she was
told that you can't put that near Davis

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00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:55,920
Road. So where it's another will comply
wherever we can put the dumpster away

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00:08:53,519 --> 00:09:02,480
from the playground area. We'll work
with the township to do that.

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00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:06,480
» So you would agree uh to uh to a
condition that you would move to the

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00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:11,200
dumpster to the satisfaction of the
township's uh building code official?

88
00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,640
Yep. And that's fine. We'd accept that
condition.

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00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:16,959
» All right.
>> U third is the parking requirements.

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00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:23,360
Very very much aware of what the
township requires. Um if you if you look

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00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:29,519
at the site plan uh for a moment, what I
refer to as

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00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:35,839
» A2 E2. Yeah. A2. Uh to the right uh in
the strip center is not u this

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landlord's uh ownership. It's starting
with 31 Eastern Road least least unit to

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00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:47,839
the left. Is that correct?
>> You're standing on Eastn Road

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00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:51,600
» looking looking. Yeah. Okay. Um, so but
point I'm trying to orient that's what I

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00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:56,560
like about the photos to give you
pictures worth a thousand words give you

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00:09:53,279 --> 00:10:02,880
a sense of the local. Uh the landlord
has been waiting to uh see what develops

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00:09:59,839 --> 00:10:07,360
with this particular unit and then we'll
repave the parking and restripe the

99
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:13,120
parking in conformance and compliance
with the township requirements

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00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:17,360
and then uh we'll be able to if you look
at exhibit two there is a specified

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00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:23,760
number of parking spaces on there
already. uh they'll be restriped uh with

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with clear markings uh ground level
markings. In addition, there will be

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00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:35,200
clear markings for drop off and and
pickup areas. Uh and Nina explain

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00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:42,480
orienting to the photos where that drop
off and pickup area will be. Uh in this

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particular uh instance in this local
the configuration of the improvement the

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00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:53,920
structure has that indentation which
will allow uh parents, guardians and and

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people dropping off the children to come
in away from the that flow traffic flow

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area and drop off the children. So it
almost is a I don't want to say an ideal

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00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:09,040
location but it's a preferable location
for that. Um Nina will show you where

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00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:18,399
the main entrance will be and orienting
to the photographs you have. And um as

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00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:22,959
far as uh the uh Kay's aware of the
annual permit review with the township

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00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:27,519
anticipating to comply much like
Sheltonham Township, she's aware of that

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00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:32,000
condition and that requirement. uh she's
aware of the consent uh notice that is

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00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:36,480
to be provided to the township that
directs the department of public welfare

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00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:41,200
to provide township immediate notice of
any suspension, revocation or

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termination of the state license for the
daycare center. So again, that's another

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00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:52,040
condition that we readily accept. It's
in the ordinary course of business.

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00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,040
Um

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00:11:53,120 --> 00:12:03,760
there is an existing romper room uh in
the in Nenah's uh not in Nah's company's

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00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:10,480
ownership but again that romper room has
been in that local for a number of years

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00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:15,920
» since pre-COVID I don't
>> yeah so in the 1990s and so the point

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00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:20,560
I'm making there is there's no there has
been no

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00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:24,320
issues of traffic flow, interruption,
noise, or anything of that sort

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associated with the romper room, which
will be almost next door to where 31

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Eastern Road will be.
Um, checking off my checklist, your

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00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:39,120
ordinance has a provision that I
reviewed with Mr. Patel and the

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00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:43,600
solicitors uh with regard to tobacco
shops. So there's an existing tobacco

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00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:48,639
shop in the strip center in the non
nonrecord owners local except your

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00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:53,920
ordinance as I interpreted it and I
believe Mr. Kenny agrees I think so that

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00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:59,120
that ordinance is to prohibit a tobacco
shop from moving in on a daycare center

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not the opposite. A daycare center can
move into a local where there is a

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00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:09,120
tobacco shop. Um so I I was concerned at
the outset when Kay engaged me because I

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00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:12,959
was aware of that ordinance provision
and concerned with how that would be

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00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:18,079
construed. But my understanding is uh
that ordinance provision for

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00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:24,320
I'm going to say B
the B34 use uh that is doesn't require K

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00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:30,880
to go before your zoning hearing. That
was what my main concern was. So, uh,

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00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:36,440
subject to your review, uh, we there's
no need for variance relief is what I'm

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00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,440
saying. Um,

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00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:48,320
K will enter into a house into a a lease
property and with the landlord and that

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00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:54,079
is um, uh, long-term in sense of being
there to stay and operate this daycare

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00:13:50,320 --> 00:14:00,160
center. Um, I would mention that your uh
the county's planning commission uh

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00:13:56,320 --> 00:14:04,560
endorses this use within the uh in
compliance with your Montgomery County

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00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:09,440
comprehensive plan and in compliance
with um I'm not sure I know what this

144
00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:17,360
is, but my code 2040, a shared vision.
So both of those uh countywide documents

145
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:24,639
uh allow for this use uh for daycare uh
um center operation and educational

146
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:31,760
uses. U there is a number of um uh
recommendations to you that within that

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00:14:27,839 --> 00:14:37,920
uh planning commission July 2 letter uh
which I've reviewed with K and uh with

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00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:44,079
Mina. So, we're prepared to go through
them and and basically answer any

149
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:47,839
questions that you have regarding those.
Last item, if I could, is the buffer

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requirements in your ordinance. The
problem is this is a long standing strip

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00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:59,440
center and we own my client's landlord
owns a portion of the strip center. So,

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00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:06,240
there's little ability to create new
buffering. uh but subject to your review

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00:15:02,639 --> 00:15:09,920
and your uh recommendations, but it's a
it's as I said, it's a long-standing

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00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:17,680
existing shopping center that K is
simply moving into a vacant unit, unit

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00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:22,480
uh 31 Eastern, that unit. Um
the

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00:15:19,839 --> 00:15:27,199
solid waste removal, we'll address that.
Um that'll be because I recognize in

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00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:32,160
your ordinance that a daycare center is
in considered a facility much like a

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00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:36,880
hospital or a home that cares for
people. So whatever the will comply

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00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:43,079
whatever requirements relate to solid
waste disposal will be complied with. Um

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00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:54,880
there is a basement in the in the lease
space. No. Okay. wrong wrong case.

161
00:15:52,399 --> 00:16:01,120
Sorry, so we don't have exterior access
issues there. Um

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00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:06,160
just going through my my list
parking.

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00:16:02,639 --> 00:16:09,759
Um with that, I'll introduce Kay to you
and just ask her some questions and then

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00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:12,480
open the floor if you have questions for
K. K.

165
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:16,399
» Hello.
>> So you heard me give a summary to the

166
00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:20,399
board of commissioners.
>> Is there anything I said that you do not

167
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:22,720
agree with? I think it was perfect.
Perfect.

168
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,759
» That's nice. Is there anything you want
to add on?

169
00:16:24,639 --> 00:16:32,320
» No, I think it was perfect. Um
I I can't think of anything that was

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00:16:29,519 --> 00:16:37,920
missed. Um unless you guys had questions
for me that I can try to answer.

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00:16:35,839 --> 00:16:40,639
» So I think the whole thing's put might
generate a question might answer a

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00:16:39,199 --> 00:16:43,839
question. Sorry, the end.
>> So let me ask one more question. K. Is

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00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,639
there anything you want to add to what I
said?

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00:16:44,959 --> 00:16:51,440
» Um no.
>> Okay. There is one. Okay.

175
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:55,600
» Hours of operation. So this this
location is in a residential mixed

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00:16:53,440 --> 00:17:01,680
residential commercial area including
the Rog Grove Mall. So K application

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00:16:58,959 --> 00:17:10,079
that she prepared she has proposed 6:00
am 10 p.m. Um and her view is that that

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00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:15,120
spans the time frame that really will be
use usable if I can put it that way by

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00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:20,880
residents wanting to have their children
uh uh cared for at the daycare center.

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00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:28,079
Uh, I recognize that's a long period of
time, but your ordinance says um part of

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00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:31,360
a day doesn't have a precise limitation.
And I'm not arguing that. I'm just

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00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:35,919
saying that's what it says. And as far
as the attendees, it also says a a

183
00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:39,919
suitable number of attendees. So, I
already addressed that in terms of the

184
00:17:37,679 --> 00:17:45,120
compliance issue with the state and and
your local requirements. But those um

185
00:17:43,039 --> 00:17:50,919
those are the opening issues that I
have. And uh with that, I'll I'll ask

186
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,919
Nina to step up.

187
00:17:51,919 --> 00:17:58,559
» Nina, would you um what I'd like you to
do is if you could walk through exhibit

188
00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:01,679
B1, each of the colored photographs that
we have presented to the board and to

189
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,720
Michel
just explain what you see in that

190
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,200
photograph. And let me ask you this. Who
took these photographs?

191
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,240
» Pages.

192
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,640
And I'm not
>> Someone needs to speak into the

193
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,080
microphone.
>> Uh I'm not sure who took the photographs

194
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:24,559
to be honest.
>> I received them and I had an automatic

195
00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:28,320
question that were these taken without
any alteration of what was appearing in

196
00:18:26,559 --> 00:18:32,880
the lens of the camera. The answer to me
was no. This is an act. Each of these

197
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:38,799
photographs are accurate uh depictions
of what was in the camera lens. So there

198
00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:43,280
was no manipulation of what? Okay. So
Nina, I'll let you go and just explain

199
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:47,440
what what is in each what the vision is
in each photo.

200
00:18:45,039 --> 00:18:52,640
» Okay. So I'm looking at the photograph
that kind of in the middle you can see a

201
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:57,760
sign that says Paradise Halal Market
above there. Um the

202
00:18:55,919 --> 00:19:01,200
» that's the first page of the package I
gave.

203
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:07,760
» So the doorway there's two doors. The
door directly to the left of the green

204
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:10,880
dumpster, that's the Halal Market. uh
and career entrance.

205
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:16,480
» The door to the left of that, it has a
31 on it. That would be uh Kay's main

206
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:20,559
entrance where she would have uh drop
off and pick up of the children.

207
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,520
» Can I interrupt you just for a minute?
So, this is the what I call the

208
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:28,720
indentation
uh of the strip center. So, cars can

209
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:33,120
literally pull in. And is that where the
markings, the ground markings will be

210
00:19:31,039 --> 00:19:37,919
provided? So, the cars will come out of
the the traffic flow lane of the strip

211
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:45,160
center and be able to pull into this in
what I call the indentation area uh to

212
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:45,160
drop off children and pick them up.

213
00:19:49,919 --> 00:19:58,480
» So, the the second photo um is mostly of
the parking lot and there's like a looks

214
00:19:55,360 --> 00:20:03,679
like an office building in the rear uh
vision of the photo. Uh all the way to

215
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:08,000
the left side of that photo, you can see
the edge of the building and it looks

216
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:12,400
like there's like a line kind of painted
out. This is the area where the

217
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:18,960
playground is going to be built and
fenced in. And one of the things that

218
00:20:15,919 --> 00:20:22,880
the Montgomery County Commission had
mentioned that they wanted bowlers

219
00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:27,919
placed around the outside of the fence
and we've agreed to comply with that.

220
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:32,240
every five feet seems to be uh the
standard from what my research shows.

221
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:36,400
So, we will be installing those on the
outside to protect the fence as well.

222
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:40,080
» There's another photo that has a red
square that I'll point out further. And

223
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:42,880
is this uh
>> still on the second photo?

224
00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:48,159
» We're still on the second photo. So,
this ground area is to to the bottom of

225
00:20:45,919 --> 00:20:58,400
the photograph. is that parking area
that that um um 31 Eastern LLC controls.

226
00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:03,679
» No. So, basically the you could see
where I I mentioned this line comes out

227
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:09,520
that if that line extended straight out
to Davisville Road and deep into the

228
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:13,760
picture, that's what we control.
Anything from this line and behind is

229
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:17,280
the next property owner. It's not
something that we control.

230
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:20,240
» All right. So the vehicles in the
photograph in the middle of photograph

231
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:24,960
that's your
>> space area and that's where you will you

232
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:28,919
will repave that parking area and
restripe it correct.

233
00:21:32,159 --> 00:21:43,320
So, this next photo is the front of the
center uh taken from Eastn Road

234
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,320
and

235
00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:52,799
it it looked like you're actually st if
you're standing where the picture was

236
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:56,960
taken, the space 31 is directly to your
right. It's actually not in this

237
00:21:54,320 --> 00:22:02,240
picture. The rest of the center that we
own is in front of you in this picture.

238
00:21:59,679 --> 00:22:06,880
» And the reason for the photo, all the
space in front of that those shot is

239
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:11,240
your ground area. Will that also be
repaved and restriped?

240
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,240
» Correct.

241
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:23,360
Okay. So, this next photo
um shows again the rear. This is what

242
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:27,600
John was mentioning. The red line
uh around the back on the right side,

243
00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:33,280
that's where the playground area will
be. And you can kind of see that that

244
00:22:30,159 --> 00:22:38,840
part of the building that's ours. And
everything to the left of that is a

245
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,840
different property.

246
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:45,840
» And that the red box will be enclosed
with a six foot high fence and the

247
00:22:43,919 --> 00:22:49,840
ballards will be surrounding the
exterior of that fence.

248
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:54,960
» Correct.
And I'll just ask you, well, I I'll make

249
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:59,200
a representation that this work has to
be done before the state issues the

250
00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:03,360
license to allow the daycare center to
operate. So, not only would it be a

251
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,640
requirement and condition of the
township to be fulfilled, it's also a

252
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:09,640
requirement of Department of Public
Welfare.

253
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:19,679
Uh the next picture is taken from
Eastston Road and in the middle you can

254
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:26,000
see the
the first blue awning that's the Zulu

255
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:33,360
vape shop. To the left of that is a
beauty supply and the beauty supply and

256
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:39,280
all to the right is not our property.
the very just to the left of the beauty

257
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:43,600
shop. That is the 31 Eastern Road and
that's the space that Kay would be uh

258
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:48,080
leasing from us.
>> And and we took this photo and put it in

259
00:23:45,919 --> 00:23:52,159
the package when we weren't sure how
Zulu the tobacco shop would play into

260
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:58,720
this. So we wanted to orient you to
where the tobacco shop was in connection

261
00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:05,120
with the lease space.
Uh the next is a photo that

262
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:10,000
» aerial photo uh showing you the entire
property and it gives you a better

263
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:16,799
vision of what the current parking lot
striping is. So all of that it'll be uh

264
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:21,919
the parking lot will be resealed and all
those same parking spots will be painted

265
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:26,559
just as they are today. We're not
lowering or increasing the parking

266
00:24:23,679 --> 00:24:30,880
spaces. It'll all be the same.
Now, while you're on that subject, as

267
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:36,480
far as complying with the township
board's parking spaces for the daycare

268
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:42,720
center, is the landlord uh going to
provide uh the requisite parking spaces

269
00:24:40,159 --> 00:24:46,640
to comply with the um township
ordinance?

270
00:24:43,679 --> 00:24:50,559
» Yes.
>> And so I would I would propose that's

271
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,279
why I asked Nina to be here. And I would
propose that if there's a condition of

272
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:59,679
compliance as we restripe this, we have
the landlord committing to comply with

273
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,679
the condition in connection with the
property.

274
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:10,720
» And then
is the

275
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:15,679
the site plan
>> um which

276
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:22,880
» exhibit A2. Yeah, A2.
Uh, and this basically shows you uh the

277
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:27,039
center. Uh, it's the Shinghar beauty all
the way to the right from there all the

278
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:35,200
way to the right is not our property.
Um, but everything from 31 east and to

279
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:43,039
the left and this uh site plan is ours.
shows you uh we have the 17 parking

280
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:49,600
spots in the front and then in the back
we've got 63 parking spots. Uh and we

281
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:54,720
have the directional arrows
just showing how the traffic flow will

282
00:25:51,600 --> 00:26:01,679
go and where the drop off spot is at the
entrance that I had pointed out in the

283
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:04,960
previous photograph. Um, if we are, this
is this was our best guess of what you

284
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:08,720
guys would be looking for as far as the
directional arrows. So, if there's

285
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:14,919
something else that you want, we're
happy to comply with that to satisfy the

286
00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:14,919
township's requirements.

287
00:26:18,559 --> 00:26:25,279
» Related to that, you would condition be
acceptable subject to uh any

288
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:30,559
recommendations from the township's
traffic engineer. Correct.

289
00:26:26,559 --> 00:26:33,559
» Yes. and and acceptable. Yep.
Um

290
00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:41,840
I think that covers all my points and so
any if you have any questions of me or

291
00:26:39,679 --> 00:26:49,200
either witness
>> uh I'll start out uh quickly the front

292
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:52,080
door will that be used at all? Drop in,
drop off, in and out.

293
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,919
» Um
>> we need to come up to the microphone.

294
00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:01,440
We haven't quite decided yet, but we we
prefer it to be in the rear where the

295
00:26:59,919 --> 00:27:06,159
arrows are going to be to direct the
traffic and have a easier flow in and

296
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:14,640
out. Um we may use it for just
emergencies or if we put a classroom up

297
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:21,840
there, we may use that entrance. But um
as of right now, we're using the

298
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:27,279
» uh the fence in the back. Will there be
a gate to the parking lot?

299
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:31,520
» Mean an entrance in the gate or
>> an entrance for the inside of that

300
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:35,120
fenced area 20 by 25
>> playground area.

301
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:38,799
» Will there be a gate or a way to get out
of that without stop going through the

302
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:43,760
building?
>> Yes. In case of emergencies because it

303
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:50,320
it does back up to one of our rear ent
um entrances or exits. So, if we had to

304
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:56,240
get out of the back, we need to have a
way to eress from the play area.

305
00:27:54,559 --> 00:28:03,200
Uh,
let me see. As far as

306
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:08,000
the drop off
and not necessar particularly here,

307
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:15,039
maybe your other place.
How many drop offs during prime time do

308
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:19,120
you expect?
I know this is a guess, but you know,

309
00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:25,279
whatever your hours are, especially in
like the morning hours or whatever, uh,

310
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:31,279
in other words, are we expecting to see
four cars waiting to drop bids off, 10

311
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:34,559
cars? We don't know the operation that
you have,

312
00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:38,480
» right? So, it does vary on the the
schedules of the parents. Um, so

313
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:43,120
occasionally you may get two or three
people that show up at the same time.

314
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:49,520
Some days are running late or been a lot
of days are running late.

315
00:28:44,799 --> 00:28:54,240
But um they it varies. It it does vary.
Um most of the parents will try to get

316
00:28:52,320 --> 00:29:01,520
there by the drop off time which will be
9:00. We have a grace period of 9:15 to

317
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:05,200
arrive so we can get our day started. So
roughly

318
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,760
I guess between 8 and 9 is the busiest
time

319
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,600
» in the morning.
>> In the morning.

320
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:16,880
» That's all I have for you. You have a
little dimensional.

321
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:23,360
» Okay. As far as uh the dimensional on
your plan, you show the parking along

322
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:26,559
the front of the building.
>> You don't

323
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:29,200
get
>> Yes.

324
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:36,880
» You don't show the parking spaces that
are along the sidewalk on that plan, but

325
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:40,559
they are striped as parking spots next
to the sidewalk

326
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:47,600
as of now.
>> Yes. Uh we didn't include those because

327
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:53,440
we are looking in the next year or so to
actually uh put a pylon sign hopefully

328
00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:58,080
in the front and if we put a pylon sign
we have to eliminate those. I think it's

329
00:29:55,360 --> 00:30:04,640
two maybe three spots there. So I didn't
want to include them in the anticipation

330
00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:08,720
that they'll likely be eliminated.
>> Try to find your pictures to hear.

331
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:13,360
» Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I know what you're
talking about. And when we looked at

332
00:30:10,399 --> 00:30:17,760
we've engaged with a sign company and
we're waiting on drawings back, but in

333
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:21,919
our looking at it, the only place for us
to put a pylon sign is kind of in the

334
00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:31,279
middle of those spots and that just
basically eliminates them all. Uh,

335
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:38,880
do you feel there's enough
parking here as it sits as the land and

336
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:46,000
say manager of the property to add this
business in?

337
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:51,279
I do the and especially because
I've been at the center multiple

338
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:58,000
different times during the day, morning,
afternoon, late afternoon, and

339
00:30:54,960 --> 00:31:05,279
we have it. I've never seen the parking
lot even 3/4 full. it just the the uses

340
00:31:02,159 --> 00:31:11,440
that we have in there now. They're just
there's not a lot of

341
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:17,440
cars that park there. It's more uh in
and out type thing. Uh so I definitely

342
00:31:14,399 --> 00:31:23,039
think that it won't be an issue.
>> So now here's the question. Where your

343
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:30,799
drop off is inside of the little 90
degree area. Uh you have a it looks like

344
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:36,000
two parking spaces there. uh where the
drop off pickup is between the building

345
00:31:33,279 --> 00:31:41,519
bump and the entrance door.
>> Correct.

346
00:31:38,399 --> 00:31:47,840
» Are they essential parking spots? Are
they handicapped or anything? Because if

347
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:52,000
we're having cars pulling in, dropping
kids off there and stuff, you might have

348
00:31:50,159 --> 00:31:58,320
a car there backing up. You know, you're
trying to get in there. Uh are is that

349
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:05,440
spot I think you chose two of them
central to this to your shopping center?

350
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:09,360
» I don't believe so. And if you you would
like us to eliminate them or maybe make

351
00:32:07,679 --> 00:32:12,399
them only for drop off.
>> It's only coming from me. Everybody else

352
00:32:11,039 --> 00:32:15,440
might have other questions. But yes.
>> Yeah.

353
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:20,240
» I don't want kids with a movement where
a car could be moving in and out or

354
00:32:17,919 --> 00:32:23,919
break there when it's really enclosed
three sides.

355
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:26,399
» Yes. No, it's it's two spots. I don't
think it it's not going to make or break

356
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:32,320
anything.
>> My last question to you is you're going

357
00:32:28,799 --> 00:32:34,000
to pave the front well both front and
back,

358
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:38,320
» correct?
>> Are you going to do anything to the

359
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:43,919
sidewalks
in a little disrepair out front along

360
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:49,840
Easter road while you're paving?
>> Uh, honestly, we haven't looked at it.

361
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:55,200
If it's something that uh is required,
we will take care of it.

362
00:32:51,519 --> 00:33:00,480
» Okay. Just general question. That's all
>> with that.

363
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:05,360
» Anybody here? Sure. Yeah.
>> All right. In addition to the interior

364
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:11,360
space calculation perennsylvania law,
there's also a requirement for the

365
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:17,360
outdoor play space. How many kids can
you fit in that pro proposed play space?

366
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:21,919
In the outdoor play space, we're looking
maybe between 10 and 15 children.

367
00:33:20,159 --> 00:33:26,320
» And what would make it 10 and what would
make it 15?

368
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:29,679
» The ages of the children. So, um, every,
well, you have infants, young toddlers,

369
00:33:28,159 --> 00:33:36,039
older toddlers, and preschoolers. And
they require different spaces based on

370
00:33:31,679 --> 00:33:36,039
their age or square foot.

371
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,080
And

372
00:33:39,679 --> 00:33:44,279
getting back to the interior calculation

373
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:54,399
that is a we need something to go on to
understand the amount of traffic that's

374
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:59,519
coming in and out of this facility
and

375
00:33:56,080 --> 00:34:04,799
I are is there no estimate that you can
make based on knowing that you will have

376
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:09,679
an office you will have this sort of uh
equipment uh uh you know those items

377
00:34:07,679 --> 00:34:15,760
that are taken out of the calculation
for the amount of space you have. So do

378
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:21,280
you have any idea with with a good
degree of

379
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:25,679
uh confidence how many children you're
looking to serve?

380
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:32,240
» Um I will I will estimate maybe 40. I'm
not sure because

381
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:36,639
some spaces um they deduct space for
like bathrooms hallways and so the

382
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:42,240
depending on the configuration that we
decide to use to maximize the space will

383
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:49,040
depend on that.
>> I I can answer that a little bit more

384
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:56,240
fully if you will. Your section 35019C4F
of your ordinance does say you exclude

385
00:34:52,639 --> 00:35:01,119
uh hallways, kitchen areas, bath areas,
staff areas, and utility rooms. So I

386
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:05,599
believe that's consistent with the DVW
requirements. And so that is a will

387
00:35:03,119 --> 00:35:10,800
comply and that will whatever that
calculation is for this specific space

388
00:35:08,720 --> 00:35:15,200
will dictate
the number of children that will be

389
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:18,560
allowed to be on premises.
Well, that that's not leading to any

390
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:23,440
sort of compliance by telling you you'll
take those items out of the calculation.

391
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:29,760
» No, I'm saying it'll it'll reduce in
other words, it is a it is a limited

392
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:35,839
calculation but not on base not on total
floor area but on dedicated floor area.

393
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:40,480
So Kay already understands that what
that calculation what the product of

394
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:44,480
that calculation will dictate in terms
of the number of children that can be on

395
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:48,480
premises.
>> Right. So we all we all read that but

396
00:35:46,720 --> 00:35:52,000
that's that's not getting us any further
to complying. So

397
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:55,599
» it's it's vacant space. It's going to be
fitted out and that's part of

398
00:35:53,839 --> 00:36:01,920
» it's going to be Yeah. Yeah, we don't
have we don't have a plan to react to to

399
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:06,720
say uh okay I I I understand your plan
to have x number of children

400
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:12,640
um and
uh it it you know it could vary by a few

401
00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:18,000
here or there based on this or that I
don't have anything to go and without

402
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:25,119
that why it's important to me is that in
order to understand um and assess

403
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:29,440
parking safety egress and ingress
um you know the amount of of pedestrians

404
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:34,800
that are going to be there. We need we
need actual plans. We need something

405
00:36:31,839 --> 00:36:39,520
something concrete to go on. I
absolutely understand that. Um however,

406
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:44,640
until
K receives approval for a particular

407
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:48,880
site, the state won't get involved and
do the computations and do a site visit.

408
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:56,079
And so we're it's the chicken and the
egg situation. One of the things I would

409
00:36:51,680 --> 00:37:02,320
recommend or propose is that we have a
post approval condition of complying

410
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:06,119
with the oversight by Mr. Patel or or uh
or your your solicitor.

411
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:15,280
» Yeah. Yeah. So, I I'm not trying to
dodge your question. We just don't have

412
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:20,240
a definitive answer right now. Right.
They

413
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:24,560
» Yeah.
Um

414
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:31,520
I I want to confirm that you're saying
you cannot add any sort of landscaping

415
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:34,320
or streetscaping of any kind.
>> Are we adding it or

416
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:39,920
» No, there there's a requirement for
buffering. But you

417
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:47,200
» the the
98% or 99% of our property is currently

418
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:51,280
concrete parking lot or building.
There's a little strip along Davisfell

419
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:58,760
Road between the parking lot and the
road itself. There's

420
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,760
nowhere to be able to put anything

421
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,800
» and none of the surrounding properties
have anything either.

422
00:38:09,839 --> 00:38:12,839
Um,

423
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:19,359
and I think what we're looking at there
is the strip of ground you have on

424
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:24,800
Davisville Road in the back of it that
you could possibly put a tree or two

425
00:38:22,079 --> 00:38:30,320
along Davisville Road.
>> What's the width of that strip?

426
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:37,240
» I don't know the width of it.
>> I don't know, but

427
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,240
you'd be wrong.

428
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:44,640
It's
>> I mean part of our problem with if we've

429
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:48,640
planted something, we don't have the
ability to water it and make sure that

430
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:53,760
it stays alive.
Uh we just don't do not have the

431
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:59,920
capacity to
um and if we plant something and then it

432
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:04,240
dies then it's
I don't know how we maintain it to be

433
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:09,200
honest. I'm not
trying to be difficult with that piece

434
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:13,160
or anything, but it just seems very
difficult for us to maintain.

435
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:23,040
With regard to the ballards around the
play area, I

436
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:28,960
I would expect to see a plan. You expect
you to show up with a plan since we knew

437
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:34,800
that that is a requirement uh to to have
safety around that play area. So, it's

438
00:39:31,839 --> 00:39:40,320
also hard to assess if uh what you're
saying is adequate because it's not

439
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:44,240
really a plan that's been submitted to
us.

440
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:49,280
» But but we offered it as a condition
that we would comply with the the both

441
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:55,200
the uh planning commission's
recommendation and your requirements for

442
00:39:52,000 --> 00:40:00,119
ballards in a dimensional pattern around
the uh exterior fenced program.

443
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,040
I understand.

444
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:08,800
» But we're making an offer of of
commitment.

445
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:11,280
» Explain the offer again one more time to
the board. Explain the offer to the

446
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,839
board.
>> The offer is to comply with uh the

447
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,200
recommendation of a county planning
commission in terms of installing

448
00:40:17,359 --> 00:40:22,720
Ballards around the fence playground
area and whatever your director of

449
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:26,320
planning
>> official such as the building code

450
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:30,280
official and or the township engineer or
traffic engineer.

451
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,280
» Correct.

452
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:41,680
Um, with regard to traffic, uh, has any
engineering uh, staff member or K or or

453
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:46,880
um, council or anyone taken a look at at
these plans to determine

454
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:54,560
uh, the recommendations about whether
they think it's it's it's safe or not.

455
00:40:51,680 --> 00:41:00,720
» We have not uh, engaged traffic study
engineer. uh this is a that we're

456
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:02,240
replacing a tenant within this space and
uh

457
00:41:01,359 --> 00:41:05,680
» the use
>> this is a use application

458
00:41:03,359 --> 00:41:09,040
» permitted use and this
>> right

459
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:14,079
I would point out though just to step
back that the exhibit A does have a a

460
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:20,480
box legend about the ballards committing
to the ballards on this on this plan as

461
00:41:18,319 --> 00:41:23,480
» pretty vague I get commissioner saying
that

462
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:29,520
Well, what I'd see is a five foot
intervals on all three sides of the

463
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:35,760
exterior of the playground enclosure. If
that as an example, if if five feet is

464
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:39,680
not adequate in your view, we'll we'll
put them in whatever dimension.

465
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:43,119
» Obviously, the commissioner would talk
to our township professionals and

466
00:41:41,359 --> 00:41:48,240
consult with you and getting together
obviously a safe plan.

467
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:51,920
» Right. Right. If the board if the board,
you know, imposes that condition and

468
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,880
there's an approved
>> and we would work with the township

469
00:41:56,240 --> 00:42:02,400
» uh daycare centers are very much needed.
I'm trying to get enough information out

470
00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:05,920
of you to be able to make the
inappropriate decision.

471
00:42:04,319 --> 00:42:10,880
» And and commissioner, the only thing
I'll say is that there's seasonality to

472
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:16,000
this application. So we're we're not we
Kay filed it uh actually before I was

473
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:22,480
engaged and and in March and so we've
been trying to react. I think um uh the

474
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:27,280
perfectly understand the point of a
definitive plan, but what we're trying

475
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:34,079
to say is we'll commit to those definite
requirements as as we develop the the

476
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:38,079
lynch pin is we have to get the site use
approval, then deal with the Department

477
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:43,160
of Public Welfare and at the same time
deal with your

478
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:43,160
Yeah.

479
00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:55,200
I just have one about the dumpster. Uh I
know where it is now and where in the

480
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:58,640
site plan.
What was the reasoning behind where is

481
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:03,359
it being positioned and will will the
dump dump truck be able to sanitation

482
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:08,319
truck be able to adequately get in with
a full parking lot to empty the trash at

483
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:15,599
that location?
>> Uh yes. So the where we proposed to put

484
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:24,640
it uh was as far away from the entrance
as possible and because we

485
00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:30,960
as I had mentioned like
we we can't put it in the on the house

486
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:36,880
the edges of our property right because
the parking lot of the neighboring uh

487
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:41,599
strip center it absuts it. So along the
Davisville Road edge is the only spot

488
00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:47,440
that we can really put it. Uh I do
believe that there is sufficient

489
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:52,960
clearance uh to put it there and if it
would be preferred to put it uh on the

490
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:59,359
other side of that egress.
Uh we're open to moving it wherever

491
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:03,920
uh the township would prefer along that
Davis roadside. It's it's honestly it's

492
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:08,040
I don't know that we have an option to
put it anywhere else. Again

493
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:14,000
to reiterate, you'll agree to whatever
the building code official dictates

494
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:17,000
related to that.
>> Yes.

495
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:24,480
» Just a question. Is there any natural
light in this building other than the

496
00:44:21,839 --> 00:44:27,839
door?
>> I don't see windows.

497
00:44:25,839 --> 00:44:33,200
» There's windows in the front
>> and the side and a door is clear on the

498
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:36,880
in the rear. Would you go all the way
back and there are no no additional

499
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,920
natural light?
>> No, it's an enclosed rental unit on the

500
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:45,200
sides.
>> I see in line. Yes,

501
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:47,040
» I see that there were windows. I don't
know whether you were thinking about

502
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:55,000
removing
>> previously, but currently there in the

503
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:55,000
front I don't know if you guys

504
00:44:59,599 --> 00:45:08,800
with regard to the other tenants that
are in your property. Um like in the

505
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:14,400
picture it shows Paradise Pal and their
door is about 3 ft away from the

506
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:18,480
entrance to the daycare. Um, are they
upstairs? Is this the floor building?

507
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:23,040
Where are they located? Because in none
of the other schematics, we you talk a

508
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,319
lot about the store that you are on your
property, but I didn't see where that's

509
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:30,079
specifically located.
>> So, that the door that you see that's

510
00:45:28,319 --> 00:45:33,920
kind of next to the dumpster. That's
actually their rear entrance. It's not a

511
00:45:31,839 --> 00:45:37,599
customer entrance. It's something that
they use to exit to the rear because

512
00:45:35,839 --> 00:45:44,160
that dumpster is actually the dumpster
that they use. Uh, and if you came

513
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:51,000
around to the pictures that showed the
front, their entrance is on the front

514
00:45:47,599 --> 00:45:51,000
and it's

515
00:45:51,359 --> 00:45:54,599
you can

516
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:02,960
um
maybe the third photo.

517
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:06,960
» Third photo. Yeah. We're looking
>> Burger King at the end.

518
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:11,680
» Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So they're that very
first kind of space where you can see

519
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:17,280
that kind of green and beige column or
that next space right there.

520
00:46:14,319 --> 00:46:22,400
» You would only expect that rear door to
be used

521
00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:27,599
» by their day type low traffic.
>> Correct. Correct. Yeah. They don't they

522
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:34,240
don't allow to use that entrance. It's
really only a business rear entrance or

523
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:40,000
exit I guess. Could
I ask another just brief question? Sure.

524
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:45,920
» Do you have the um authority to ask the
market next door? I noticed things that

525
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:50,480
it looks perhaps like a a stepladder up
against the side. I'm looking at picture

526
00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:55,920
number one and the things that they have
there don't strike me as being things

527
00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:59,280
that you would want. They look like
attractive nuisances and maybe some

528
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:04,000
danger for children. you have the
ability to ask other

529
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:07,839
» businesses to not do that?
>> Yes, we can make sure that they clean

530
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:11,000
that up and that's removed from there.
>> Thank you.

531
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:23,520
» Closing anything?
>> No, just uh I think um one of the

532
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,920
commissioners said the daycare was
necessary. I asked Kay what she thought

533
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:32,560
and she said it's she has a lot of
response, a lot of reaction to her

534
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:37,520
community about opening up a daycare
center in Upper Morland. So people are

535
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:42,240
anxious to see if this gets approved.
You might closing remark we would ask

536
00:47:39,599 --> 00:47:45,760
you to approve this use application.
Thank you.

537
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:52,200
» Once that's done, see if there's any
followup.

538
00:47:48,319 --> 00:47:52,200
One more thing, I would still

539
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:59,440
along the road with some higher figures.
So, usually keep them alive long enough.

540
00:47:57,119 --> 00:48:06,319
Uh, and you don't have to water a tree
once it's actually working. Just a

541
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:12,400
comment. Uh, anybody from public would
like to speak on this?

542
00:48:09,839 --> 00:48:13,839
Sure. Did I come up the microphone?
>> This or something?

543
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,680
» About this?
>> No.

544
00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:20,560
» Oh, okay.
>> All right. With that, uh, I'll take a

545
00:48:17,839 --> 00:48:23,560
motion to close.
>> Nigel

546
00:48:23,599 --> 00:48:28,559
moved.
>> All in favor say I.

547
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:34,720
» I.
>> So, the public understands the board

548
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:39,119
then has 45 days to issue a decision. uh
we would anticipate that there would be

549
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:43,680
uh within those 45 days some kind of
action and if the board was grant some

550
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:47,200
kind of approval there would be a series
of conditions and then it would be up

551
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,640
that they were acceptable to the
applicant at a time just so everyone

552
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:57,119
understands what the process is going
forward because this is quadai judicial

553
00:48:53,920 --> 00:49:01,520
uh we can um the board can deliberate or
talk about these uh proposed conditions

554
00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:05,680
and if they want to move forward with
the approval behind closed doors just so

555
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,680
folks

556
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:12,319
I agree with that. Thank you for your
time. Appreciate it.

557
00:49:10,559 --> 00:49:14,800
» This is a general. We would be voting on
this next one.

558
00:49:13,359 --> 00:49:18,000
» Yes, we would.
>> It's not on the agenda.

559
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,599
» Of course, we would we would hope that
get some consensus of the board, get

560
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:26,000
proposed conditions. If there was some
kind of approval, get consensus of the

561
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:28,800
board looking at those and then vote on
something or not.

562
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:33,280
» This is closed.
>> This is closed. The hearing is closed.

563
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:40,640
» Thank you.
Thank you. Next, uh now we'll get to in

564
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:44,800
the regular meeting. Okay. Okay.
You won't bother us. Clean up and don't

565
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:50,800
worry about uh public comments not
agenda items only. Now, is anything that

566
00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:55,400
you want to address to the board that's
not on the agenda? You can come up to

567
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,400
the

568
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:12,319
new to hearing aids. So I got I've been
turned way up to hear what was going on.

569
00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:16,480
Now I got to
way down.

570
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:20,559
Sorry about that.
>> Please.

571
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:25,839
» My name is John Dunl. Most people know
me about Jack.

572
00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:31,200
I live at 2319 Fairway Road Valley up in
township. I'm here to represent my mom

573
00:50:27,839 --> 00:50:38,559
and dad who live at 183 Lookout lanes in
the township as well. Um

574
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:43,920
uh what what's going on there is um they
have like a problem with their their

575
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:47,839
curve on on their their house. Um hard
to describe. It's it's we all know that,

576
00:50:46,559 --> 00:50:51,119
you know, you have your sidewalk and
then you have like what I'll call the

577
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:56,400
apron that goes down and then you have
the curve, you know, that's about, you

578
00:50:53,520 --> 00:51:01,839
know, 6 in 8 in wide that that is
depressed at the part where the car

579
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:08,000
leaves and goes onto the road. Well, um
those is sever is uh deteriorating

580
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:11,760
severely and um you know it goes back
years. It's not something that just

581
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:17,040
happened like this year last year since
um and you know I we've been kind of

582
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:21,440
looking into it and
in 2019

583
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:25,680
um the summer of 2019
uh there was a large project on that

584
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:30,559
road where they replaced the water lines
uh involved from what I understand

585
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:34,640
obviously aqua um there was repairs to
the road the roads were paved so there I

586
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:41,680
guess there were many people in it at
the same time um And apparently during

587
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:45,599
the time there, you know,
one must assume some somehow that the

588
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:50,160
homeowner had some involvement somewhere
as to like what parts of the sidewalks

589
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:54,480
or what parts of the curbs could be
addressed at that time. I don't know if

590
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:59,119
there was cost sharing on or at that
time or what or you know something they

591
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:03,839
said like oh we're doing this project.
Uh we know that sidewalks and the curbs

592
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:07,760
are the homeowner's responsibility
as my parents recall it and maybe some

593
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:11,839
of the neighbors and no not maybe some
of the neighbors recall it something

594
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:15,520
happened that with respect to cost
sharing where they could say all right

595
00:52:14,079 --> 00:52:19,760
you know now you have the opportunity to
pick out these pieces of sidewalk that

596
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:29,000
you want to be replaced and that's
evident by fact even on my own parents

597
00:52:24,319 --> 00:52:29,000
I got the pictures that I I sent

598
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:37,040
I responded right now.
>> Okay. I I have some copies I took this

599
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:43,200
afternoon. I could pass around. It's uh
>> just so you know, we do not go back and

600
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:46,160
forth with you. So,
>> give us all your information.

601
00:52:44,240 --> 00:52:49,760
» There's no need for pictures then. So,
>> we don't want that.

602
00:52:48,079 --> 00:52:53,920
» So, there's no need for pictures then.
Good. So what has happened then is that

603
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:58,800
the curb in their area is so severely
deteriorated and if you compare it to

604
00:52:56,400 --> 00:53:02,800
the rest of the street, it is literally
on the entire street of Lookout Lane

605
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:07,440
where that whole project occurred, it is
literally the only one that has this

606
00:53:05,599 --> 00:53:12,559
severe deterioration to the point that
it's a safety hazard. Literally the only

607
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:17,359
one. I took a close look at it and I
initially sent a letter to um Susan who

608
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:20,720
represents our ward and I said, "Well,
you know, we really don't, you know, we

609
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:27,119
can't figure out what's going on here."
I thought um either um either during

610
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:31,760
that big project it was repaired um and
those repairs weren't done right and it

611
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:37,040
wore down prematurely or and this is
what probably this is what almost

612
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:42,880
certainly happened um when those repairs
were done and homeowners were given the

613
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:47,760
opportunity to say yes or no to portions
of their sidewalk and or curbs that need

614
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:53,520
to be replaced. This somehow got missed
and I'm convinced that that's what

615
00:53:49,520 --> 00:53:57,200
happened. Um so um um if indeed that is
what happened and I'm hoping that

616
00:53:54,880 --> 00:54:02,480
someone from the township or somewhere
maybe can help and I can do further

617
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:08,400
research you know to find out exactly
you know if um and when you know offers

618
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:11,839
were made to residents. Um I guess what
I'm getting at is if that was happened

619
00:54:10,240 --> 00:54:20,160
and my mom and dad missed that
opportunity. It's unfortunate for them.

620
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:24,400
Um I I I um know what Well, I'm trying
to see if there was some some way that

621
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:29,440
my mom and dad, you know, or or any
limited income at this point could, you

622
00:54:27,119 --> 00:54:33,119
know, is there a way that they can get
help? You know, if other projects, for

623
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:38,000
example, are happening in the region,
they're doing the same sort of work. you

624
00:54:35,599 --> 00:54:43,359
know, maybe, you know, homeowners like
my parents or or others that that might

625
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:47,119
have the same problem can kind of
piggy back onto another contract that's

626
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:51,599
in the adjacent street or a street
nearby or something and and you know,

627
00:54:49,839 --> 00:54:56,960
get this corrected with some help from
the townships. Um, if if not monetary

628
00:54:54,480 --> 00:55:00,079
help, certainly help from like a uh, you
know, a standpoint of uh, you know, how

629
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:06,720
to make it happen because it's not like
replacing or paving your driveway or or

630
00:55:04,319 --> 00:55:11,599
redoing sidewalk. This curve work is
very it's much more specific and it's

631
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:15,040
like a different level of detail when it
comes to that kind of construction. So,

632
00:55:13,599 --> 00:55:18,880
we're kind of like kind of stuck here
figuring out what to do and if there's

633
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:24,960
some way that they can get some, you
know, some monetary relief in the form

634
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:29,440
of like a reduced cost um you know to
like I said piggy back on similar work

635
00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:36,559
that's happening within the township or
or do or are are the you know are is the

636
00:55:34,559 --> 00:55:43,119
homeowner actually responsible for that
little piece that that curb part because

637
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:46,400
I had talked to um Paul took a couple
weeks and I happened to be in the

638
00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:50,799
building to pick up so many discounted
movie tickets and I went to say goodbye

639
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:54,720
to Paul brought us up and he said,
"Well, wait a minute. The curve, you

640
00:55:52,079 --> 00:56:00,799
know, he thought he didn't say he
thought maybe that that curb somehow the

641
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:04,559
township had a little bit more
responsibility as compared to the

642
00:56:02,079 --> 00:56:08,160
homeowner." wasn't sure at all and he
thought that it should be checked with

643
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:12,319
um he suggested that I thought the
decision about checking with the public

644
00:56:10,079 --> 00:56:16,799
works people to get a definitive answer
to that which I have not got until today

645
00:56:15,119 --> 00:56:21,760
when I went in I found out that
apparently the curbs are responsible I

646
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:25,839
don't have that problem I don't know
where it really falls we're just looking

647
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:30,400
some guidance and some possible you know
some possible monetary help in the

648
00:56:27,599 --> 00:56:33,760
future u maybe piggy back on doing some
inventive way to help homeowners outlet

649
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:37,680
my folks and others that might be in the
same situation. Not

650
00:56:35,599 --> 00:56:40,400
» would pardon me.
>> Can you give us those pictures?

651
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:44,319
» Yeah.
>> Okay. If you would just give us those

652
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:48,000
pictures, Miss Ps will look into it and
somebody will get back to you on what

653
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:54,000
the board has decided.
>> Okay. I actually I talked with um uh

654
00:56:50,319 --> 00:56:58,720
Tina, right? Uh and at her request, I
emailed uh pictures to her and she said

655
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:03,040
she would do everything she could to get
them to pass. So, so, so in essence, you

656
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:09,760
have them.
>> You have you have them. They were sent

657
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:15,440
about five hours from Okay.
>> I guess this No, we're not a dialogue,

658
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:19,359
but I'd like to know when there is a
meeting where dialogue could happen. I

659
00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:22,000
think the 21st of September.
>> Second, we get September because we

660
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:25,040
don't have a meeting in August.
>> Okay. So, I'll be at that.

661
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,240
» Did you receive my email from this
morning?

662
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:28,480
» No, I did not.
>> I sent you an email this morning about

663
00:57:27,599 --> 00:57:32,000
9:00.
>> Oh, okay. Check your

664
00:57:30,079 --> 00:57:36,440
» Okay. Okay.
>> Just want to look at it in mind.

665
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,440
» Thanks.

666
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:46,640
» Anybody else for public comments that
are not on the agenda?

667
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:50,559
» Okay. Uh treasures activity report. Uh
do I have a motion to approve it?

668
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:52,319
» Motion to approve. We have a motion. We
have a second.

669
00:57:51,359 --> 00:57:57,119
» Second.
>> Okay. Uh any questions from the board?

670
00:57:55,200 --> 00:58:01,599
Any questions from the public? All in
favor say I. I

671
00:57:59,119 --> 00:58:06,480
» against move there into the record.
Approval of the meeting minutes for July

672
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:09,599
6, 2026.
Motion.

673
00:58:07,359 --> 00:58:12,480
» Motion to approve. A second.
>> Second.

674
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:17,520
» Okay. Any discussion uh changes or
anything from the board, from the

675
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:22,400
public? All in favor say I.
>> I. I.

676
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:27,119
» Okay. We'll put that into the record.
Committee recommendations. Community

677
00:58:24,079 --> 00:58:32,400
Development Committee. Uh let me see. We
have no code enforcement lowland

678
00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:36,799
developments. The first item is a motion
to authorize township staff and the

679
00:58:34,799 --> 00:58:41,359
solicitor's office to work on proposed
amendments to the zoning code for the

680
00:58:38,799 --> 00:58:49,920
business center district uh which is
attached in our uh papers here.

681
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:56,400
We have any
this was presented to us prior to this.

682
00:58:53,760 --> 00:59:01,559
Uh, do we have questions or any
discussion from the board on this?

683
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:08,040
» Any questions?
>> Yeah. Um,

684
00:59:08,559 --> 00:59:13,839
» I agree. I agree.
>> We need a motion first

685
00:59:12,319 --> 00:59:16,400
since it's an agenda item. Motion
authorized or should there be discussion

686
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,119
first?
>> Up to I don't know if there going to be

687
00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,480
a motion.
>> Uh, yeah, it should be a motion if we're

688
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:25,040
going to move it forward.
>> Okay. because that's the way it was

689
00:59:23,839 --> 00:59:29,920
advertised. Okay.
>> So, uh I'll make the motion. I just need

690
00:59:28,720 --> 00:59:35,559
a second.
>> Second. Okay. Now, we've been discussed.

691
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,559
» Thank you.

692
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:48,319
» Yeah. Um I I reviewed the information
from the last meeting. I

693
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:56,319
am hesitant I am hesitant to move this
forward because it

694
00:59:51,920 --> 01:00:03,359
the zoning was in place. We've had uh
couple of years at least to talk about

695
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:10,160
it. The use is continuing. Um, and I
don't see

696
01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:16,319
uh I I am
not

697
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:24,000
in favor of changing our zoning to the
potential benefit of one business and

698
01:00:20,319 --> 01:00:29,599
for no other reason that I could
discern.

699
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:33,920
» Okay. Any other anybody else?
time.

700
01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:39,119
» I think the light industrial uses
proposed for this change are

701
01:00:36,079 --> 01:00:44,240
appropriate. Um I I think we need to
have a little flexibility here um and

702
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:48,280
and help support the people who own
businesses in our community.

703
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:54,960
Okay. Uh the only thing I will say I
think I was the one that actually

704
01:00:52,400 --> 01:01:01,040
brought it up to maybe look at this not
to change the zoning but add some uses

705
01:00:59,119 --> 01:01:05,760
but that's the way how I have put it
only because

706
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:11,200
but like Sandra said it's been in place
for three years and we did two years

707
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:18,880
prior to that. Uh the reason I wanted
it, we just the township gave them a

708
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:25,760
hardship to move on if they get somebody
uh because we changed the zoning after

709
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:32,559
they had been there for 30 years. Uh and
it would just uh since they were giving

710
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:38,240
them a hardship to get, let's say, uh a
new tenant in there under something. I

711
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:43,119
would not want all industrial like
industrial stuff but that's the only

712
01:01:40,079 --> 01:01:46,480
reason I had brought that up then
with that we don't take any other

713
01:01:44,799 --> 01:01:50,079
comments correct on tonight
>> could I make a comment

714
01:01:48,079 --> 01:01:55,280
» yeah
thank you thank you um I am more in

715
01:01:53,920 --> 01:02:00,960
alignment with the thinking of
commissioner Richmond in regard to the

716
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:07,920
fact that this was a um wellthoughtout
change in our zoning and Um, I feel very

717
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:16,079
strongly that unless we would have a
reason to want to revisit this, um,

718
01:02:12,319 --> 01:02:20,720
I would not support going forward with
changing our zoning.

719
01:02:18,319 --> 01:02:25,359
» Okay. Any other questions from the
board?

720
01:02:22,799 --> 01:02:32,160
With that, uh, we have a motion. We had
our discussion public. Yeah.

721
01:02:28,720 --> 01:02:35,359
» Do you want to say anything?
add anything there.

722
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:39,280
» Pretty quickly again, Julie von
Scrapersonson from the law firm of East

723
01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:44,000
Vern and Gray on behalf of Industrial
Investments, the owners of the property

724
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:49,440
for over 40 years. I just want to uh
reiterate again that um the zoning

725
01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:54,960
ordinance, the business center district
contemplates light industrial uses.

726
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:59,440
That's the intent and it's also in the
comprehensive plan. So you would be in

727
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:03,119
compliance with both the comprehensive
plan and the intent of the business

728
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:06,640
center if you just add a couple of the
industrial uses that we're suggesting.

729
01:03:05,119 --> 01:03:11,599
So we're not looking for a whole
resoning or anything like that. It would

730
01:03:08,720 --> 01:03:16,400
be a simple text amendment to allow very
light industrial uses uh within this

731
01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:20,960
district which would then be able to
allow the uh my client to continue to

732
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:26,400
operate businesses that he's operated
for over 30 years.

733
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:31,559
Anybody
else from the public? Anybody here to

734
01:03:28,079 --> 01:03:31,559
comment on this?

735
01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:42,799
Uh, with that, I'll call a vote. Uh,
all in favor of

736
01:03:40,319 --> 01:03:49,200
looking into this through the zoning
code uh to add some amendments to it.

737
01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:51,520
Uh, please signify saying I.
>> I.

738
01:03:49,839 --> 01:03:56,079
» I.
>> Okay. You want to look into yes

739
01:03:53,599 --> 01:04:00,880
something. Okay.
>> Uh

740
01:03:58,720 --> 01:04:02,079
out out loud. You're an I.
>> I.

741
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,079
» I.
>> I.

742
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:06,799
» You're not I. We have three.
>> Uh opposed.

743
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:14,960
» No.
>> We have two nays. Uh, in that case, what

744
01:04:10,799 --> 01:04:19,119
this is going to do is only have our
uh

745
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:27,520
I guess we'll send it to our planning
agency and our building department

746
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:33,839
and the county to see if they have some
uses. We will not change our zoning as

747
01:04:30,799 --> 01:04:38,480
far as uh the business district. We are
not going to give like industrial or

748
01:04:35,839 --> 01:04:44,880
anything. So we are just looking for
uses that can go there. Um okay with

749
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:49,920
that over.
>> Understood. Thank you very much.

750
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:54,400
Appreciate your time this evening.
>> Uh next motion to authorize

751
01:04:52,000 --> 01:05:00,559
advertisement of an ordinance amending
the zoning codes for data centers.

752
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:05,359
Uh the motion. We have a second.
>> Second.

753
01:05:01,359 --> 01:05:09,760
» A second. Any discussion from the board?
Just to be clear, uh, just so everyone

754
01:05:07,680 --> 01:05:14,799
understands, we don't have a fully
formed ordinance here yet. Uh, this is

755
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:18,160
going to be discussed more fully at CDC.
I know some commissioners had additional

756
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:23,520
comments. I was not at the meeting. I
heard from Mr. Malar of that. Those will

757
01:05:20,640 --> 01:05:29,039
all be addressed at I guess the CDC
meeting, but because of the timing uh

758
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:33,599
and the uh MPC requirements after the
CDC meeting when this is kind of all

759
01:05:31,200 --> 01:05:37,440
hopefully flushed out, then we would
move to advertise sensitive planning

760
01:05:35,599 --> 01:05:43,440
agencies so it could be adopted in
October before the moratorum six-month

761
01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:47,920
moratorum comes out. So what this is a
process to move forward this is a

762
01:05:45,599 --> 01:05:51,680
complete ordinance is not ready. a
complete or I mean ordinances have been

763
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:56,720
floated. Uh but obviously it needs more
revisions and commissioner input. Uh so

764
01:05:54,720 --> 01:06:01,280
before something is actually advertised
and sent to planning agencies that would

765
01:05:58,799 --> 01:06:05,520
happen after the CDC meeting uh next
month so everyone just understood but

766
01:06:03,839 --> 01:06:11,559
the reason to advertise is just to make
sure we keep it moving so we have

767
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,559
something in place by October.

768
01:06:12,240 --> 01:06:20,799
» It's not a discussion. It's only so we
can advertise it to the public.

769
01:06:18,319 --> 01:06:23,599
Okay. Any questions from the board? Any
questions from the public?

770
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:28,480
» All in favor say I.
>> I.

771
01:06:25,359 --> 01:06:35,119
Motion passes.
>> Next. Motion to approve R 2026-17

772
01:06:33,039 --> 01:06:40,880
granting approval of Walmart located at
21101 Blair Road for the placement of 29

773
01:06:38,799 --> 01:06:46,319
portable storage units for the storage
of their holiday inventory from October

774
01:06:43,039 --> 01:06:51,680
1st through December 31st. We have a
second motion. We have a second. Uh any

775
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:57,039
discussion? This is something they've
done every year. They need the room. Uh

776
01:06:54,559 --> 01:07:00,799
we want them to have the room. Uh
usually our almost always our fire chief

777
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:06,960
will go through to make sure the place
where they should uh there any questions

778
01:07:04,319 --> 01:07:12,240
from the board on this? Only questions
from the public? No. Okay. Uh all in

779
01:07:11,119 --> 01:07:17,039
favor say I.
>> I.

780
01:07:12,799 --> 01:07:22,920
» Against. Okay. Motion passes.
Uh next will be public health and safety

781
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,920
committee.

782
01:07:35,599 --> 01:07:43,680
Okay. The committee recommends the board
of commissioners take action on the

783
01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:51,200
following. First, a motion to approve
resolution R26 2026-14

784
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:55,280
granting police officer Brian Re and
honorable discharge from Upper Morland

785
01:07:53,200 --> 01:08:01,680
Township Police Department effective
June 12th, 2026.

786
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:06,799
» Okay. Uh we have a motion and a second.
>> And we have a second. Any discussion

787
01:08:03,359 --> 01:08:12,720
from the board? Any discussion from the
public? I would just like to uh offer uh

788
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:18,280
officer Brian Rams the best of of luck
and uh good good health and happiness in

789
01:08:15,119 --> 01:08:18,280
his future.

790
01:08:19,199 --> 01:08:26,600
» Thank you. All in favor say I.
>> I.

791
01:08:22,159 --> 01:08:26,600
» Against. Motion passes.

792
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:35,359
» Motion to authorize advertisement of an
ordinance amending the parking

793
01:08:31,600 --> 01:08:40,400
restrictions on Center Avenue. Please,
Commissioner, I'd like to uh ask that

794
01:08:37,440 --> 01:08:46,480
the board amend this motion. Uh we do
not need to have an ordinance change to

795
01:08:43,759 --> 01:08:52,080
amend the parking. Uh found out today or
I misunderstood previously that we can

796
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:55,040
do a temporary no parking along Center
Avenue for the section behind the

797
01:08:53,679 --> 01:08:58,640
Township building where construction
vehicles are entering. So, I'd like to

798
01:08:57,040 --> 01:09:04,319
change if the board is so interested,
someone can make a motion to um

799
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:11,040
authorize us to post that section of
Center Avenue from the library entrance

800
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:17,279
to um the shopping center at Route 611
as temporary no parking. It would have

801
01:09:13,839 --> 01:09:22,960
an uh expiration date of November 30th
of 2027.

802
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:26,560
» Make a motion to
change it to what Pat's description was.

803
01:09:25,359 --> 01:09:32,640
Do we have a second?
>> Second.

804
01:09:27,359 --> 01:09:36,799
» Okay. Uh, now any questions?
>> That legal the way I said it.

805
01:09:35,040 --> 01:09:40,560
» Okay.
Any anybody from the public? All in

806
01:09:39,679 --> 01:09:44,560
favor say I.
>> I.

807
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:50,000
» Against. Motion passes.
>> Motion to authorize advertisement of an

808
01:09:47,839 --> 01:09:53,520
ordinance restricting the use of break
retardosis.

809
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:58,480
» And this is on Blair Mill Road. And for
a little background, uh this uh use of

810
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:02,960
this is is done by trucks and it's
caused some noise and other concerns

811
01:10:00,480 --> 01:10:10,560
among the neighbors and uh study was
done uh to determine uh whether this

812
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:16,239
should be um this this uh should be
restricted and we are at the point of of

813
01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:20,800
u approving the restriction should this
go through.

814
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:25,760
» Okay. Uh we have a second.
Okay. Uh, any other questions from the

815
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:28,080
board? Any questions from the public?
All in favor say I.

816
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:33,199
» I.
>> Against. Motion passes.

817
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:40,560
» Motion to approve letter advocating for
district court venue change. Also for a

818
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:47,280
little background on this. Um since uh
the judge Mert has had his case load

819
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:52,960
redistributed to other courts, the
police department and others are needing

820
01:10:49,679 --> 01:10:57,280
to go to three different locations uh to
participate in the cases. This has

821
01:10:55,280 --> 01:11:02,400
caused some
um stress uh on the time and resources

822
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:11,120
of the department and we're requesting
that that be looked at um to uh

823
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:16,320
consolidate the location where we our
our staff would need to go to uh

824
01:11:14,480 --> 01:11:18,159
participate in those cases.
>> Think we have a second.

825
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:21,920
» Second.
>> We have a motion. We have a second. Any

826
01:11:19,679 --> 01:11:24,880
questions from any board members? Any
questions from the public? All in favor

827
01:11:24,159 --> 01:11:28,640
say I.
>> I.

828
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:33,120
» Motion passes.
>> Motion to approve letter in support of

829
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:38,000
Upper Morland swim club.
>> And again some background on this is

830
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:44,239
that Upper Morland Swim Club has um
identified some noise concerns. And uh

831
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:50,880
we are putting forth a uh should this
motion pass, a letter uh in support of

832
01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:56,560
the Pennsylvania Turnpike Commission um
to uh review putting some noise barriers

833
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:59,440
in a location along the turnpike where
there are none.

834
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:02,640
» Do we have a second?
>> Second.

835
01:12:00,320 --> 01:12:07,199
» Okay. Uh any questions from any board
members? Any questions from the public?

836
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:14,159
» Yes.
>> No. I bought for a long time.

837
01:12:11,600 --> 01:12:17,440
» We It has to be on the
speaker.

838
01:12:16,239 --> 01:12:22,320
» That's okay.
>> That's very interesting.

839
01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:27,440
» I My family or my I've been going for
years and none of my my daughters run

840
01:12:24,239 --> 01:12:32,000
out. But yeah, that's a real good idea.
Putting a noise barrier there. It's 25

841
01:12:29,440 --> 01:12:37,280
years overdue.
>> Thank you.

842
01:12:34,480 --> 01:12:41,120
» Any other questions? All in favor say I.
I

843
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:46,000
» against motion passes.
>> Motion to approve agreement transferring

844
01:12:43,360 --> 01:12:51,199
a fire truck to Abington Fire Company
number one. And this would be a firet

845
01:12:48,400 --> 01:12:55,679
truck that is pasted its uh useful life
uh for our township. And we would be

846
01:12:53,600 --> 01:13:02,560
allowing Abington to be using this
temporarily uh while waiting for fire

847
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:11,040
truck to arrive, a new one.
>> Okay. Uh question I'll have it chief. Is

848
01:13:07,040 --> 01:13:15,040
this temporary or this is permanent
>> will ultimately be permanent but when

849
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:19,199
the new truck comes in in Abington it
will be placed at the training academy

850
01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:22,199
so we jointly can use it for training
purposes.

851
01:13:22,239 --> 01:13:29,600
» Uh any other questions from the board?
Any questions from the public?

852
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:30,960
» I don't think we got a second.
Do

853
01:13:29,679 --> 01:13:34,000
» I have a second?
>> Susan.

854
01:13:32,000 --> 01:13:36,719
» Okay.
I'm sorry.

855
01:13:34,800 --> 01:13:41,120
» But uh Okay. All in favor say I.
>> I.

856
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:45,679
» Against. Motion passes.
>> Motion to authorize township manager to

857
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:49,840
seek grant funding for a crosswalk on
Turwood Road at Upper Morland High

858
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:56,719
School.
>> Do I second it before I ask for a table?

859
01:13:53,040 --> 01:14:04,800
No. Okay. Uh, I'll make a motion to
table this to get more information

860
01:14:00,080 --> 01:14:09,600
uh on this uh situation that what we're
looking at here for the crosswall. Uh,

861
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:10,960
so I made a motion to table it. Do I
have a second?

862
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:15,440
» Second.
>> We have a second. Any other discussion

863
01:14:13,679 --> 01:14:20,000
on this? We're just looking for more
information. Uh, anybody from the

864
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:27,840
public?
>> Okay. All in favor say I. I.

865
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:31,360
against motion passes on the table.
Okay. Next will be finance

866
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:35,840
administrative committee.
>> Yes. Uh the committee recommends the

867
01:14:33,679 --> 01:14:40,000
board commissioners to take action on
the following. Uh one, there being no um

868
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:45,120
recommendations for the board on
appointments or reappointments. Uh the

869
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:52,239
list of bills payable. Uh the committee
recommends the approval of the general

870
01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:59,679
funds checks. Uh check beginning 148175.
Ending check number 148 uh566

871
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:02,679
uh totaling $3,27,000
$27,399.76.

872
01:15:05,120 --> 01:15:15,679
Um the escro funds checks uh with check
beginning one46 and ending in one60

873
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:22,800
totaling $4,826.
And finally, the liquid fuel fund checks

874
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:30,280
uh check uh number beginning 3264,
ending in check number 3271 in the

875
01:15:25,280 --> 01:15:30,280
amount of totaling $19,69962.

876
01:15:31,679 --> 01:15:40,480
Do I have a second?
>> Second.

877
01:15:35,600 --> 01:15:46,239
» Second. Uh any questions on any of our
checks that we build? Okay. Uh anybody

878
01:15:43,600 --> 01:15:49,920
from the public? All in favor say I.
>> I.

879
01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:54,000
» Opposed. Motion passes.
>> Number three, there are no no other

880
01:15:51,679 --> 01:15:58,560
items. Uh number four, new business. Uh
there's a motion to approve township

881
01:15:56,080 --> 01:16:02,080
building change orders.
>> Okay. Uh we have a second.

882
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,800
» Second.
>> Okay. All right. Just give us a real

883
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:09,360
quick on these change orders.
>> Yes. Did Allan make the motion?

884
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:12,239
» Yes.
>> Second.

885
01:16:10,719 --> 01:16:16,080
» No, Susan did.
>> Okay. Sorry, I didn't catch you.

886
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:19,040
um [clears throat]
the curb work in front of the township

887
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,320
building and behind the township
building along Park Avenue and Center

888
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:28,560
Avenue. Curbs are in somewhat of a
disrepair. Uh some of them are 6 in,

889
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:32,000
some are 4 inch width of curbs. Uh some
are higher and some are lower. That was

890
01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:36,400
not part of the original project of the
township building renovation project. We

891
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:41,679
do have new sidewalks, new parking lots,
new building, new additions. Um the

892
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:46,000
recommendation was that we correct the
curb work at the same time that we're

893
01:16:43,520 --> 01:16:51,520
doing work out in the street. So this
would be ratifying that change order for

894
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:58,800
that work. We do have funds in our we
have contingency funds built into our um

895
01:16:54,480 --> 01:17:03,760
project. So uh no additional funding
would be required. However, you would be

896
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:09,360
borrowing down against our um u
contingency fund.

897
01:17:06,000 --> 01:17:13,840
» Okay. Uh any questions from the board?
The reason I he asked me about putting

898
01:17:11,679 --> 01:17:19,440
it on here and looking at it and I asked
him to see if anybody

899
01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:26,239
thought anything different other ways.
The reason is we are tearing the street

900
01:17:22,159 --> 01:17:31,360
up and the
if we don't got to tear the street or

901
01:17:28,480 --> 01:17:37,440
the sidewalks, everything will be new to
replace this at a later date. Since it's

902
01:17:34,000 --> 01:17:43,440
all being done now, I felt it would be
the a good time to do it. Make the whole

903
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:47,760
project, our whole property look good,
uh while they're there, and it's cheaper

904
01:17:45,440 --> 01:17:52,960
to do it while they're there. Any other
discussion from the board?

905
01:17:50,239 --> 01:17:54,800
Any discussion from the public? All in
favor say I.

906
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:57,840
» I.
>> Against.

907
01:17:56,080 --> 01:18:03,040
» Motion passes.
>> Uh B. A motion to approve a waiver for

908
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:06,640
electric permit fee for Upper Morland
Apparo Joint Sewer Authority. Do

909
01:18:05,520 --> 01:18:10,800
» you hear a second?
>> Second.

910
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:18,159
» Okay. Uh with this in the past that
basically they're a township entity. Uh

911
01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:22,960
it's township that is paying for it. Uh
why would we make them pay for it? Then

912
01:18:21,199 --> 01:18:26,880
the taxpayers going to pay us for it for
them to raise their taxes to pay for it.

913
01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:34,880
So, anything that's internal to the
township uh we usually have waved them

914
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:40,719
in the past with that. Anything else uh
from the board? Any questions?

915
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:44,080
» Okay. Any questions from the public? All
in favor say I.

916
01:18:42,159 --> 01:18:49,679
» I.
>> Motion passes. Uh let's see. Uh motion

917
01:18:47,679 --> 01:18:54,560
to approve tax assessment appeal between
the township school district of Upper

918
01:18:52,000 --> 01:19:01,040
Morland and the taxpayer.
um as as written uh on on 2300 Eastn

919
01:19:00,480 --> 01:19:03,920
Road.
>> Okay. Uh do we have a second?

920
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:09,440
» Second.
>> Okay. Uh usually with the school

921
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:13,760
district uh you just follow in line with
uh their assessments. Uh anything else

922
01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:16,800
from the board on this questions?
Anything from the public? All in favor

923
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:22,000
say I. I.
>> Against. Motion passes.

924
01:19:19,040 --> 01:19:24,640
» Next is Parks and Recreation Committee.
The committee has no business this

925
01:19:23,760 --> 01:19:30,719
evening.
>> Okay, with that uh this committee will

926
01:19:28,480 --> 01:19:36,880
or this board will be m meeting in
executive session after this meeting uh

927
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:41,040
directly and also
I am correct by all committee people

928
01:19:38,480 --> 01:19:45,600
that we will have no committees meetings
in August.

929
01:19:42,960 --> 01:19:54,280
» Any executive sessions about personnel?
Any other subjects? Uh it is about

930
01:19:48,719 --> 01:19:54,280
personnel and legal matters.

931
01:19:54,719 --> 01:20:01,520
» Okay. Uh any other commissioner
comments?

932
01:19:59,280 --> 01:20:01,520
Okay.