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Guys ready. Alright. I'd like to call

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to order this, uh, regular meeting over the upper providence board of supervisors

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monday, september 15th, 2025. And, uh, if

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everyone would rise as they're able and join me in the pledge of allegiance,

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pledge allegiance to flag of the united states of america,

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and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under god,

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invisible with liberty and justice for all.

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alright, we have an agenda and uh,

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I need a motion to approve. I'll make a motion to

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approve the september 15th, 2025 board of supervisors regular meeting

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agenda. I'll second. Alright, I'm a motion to second. All those in

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favor say aye. A aye. Anyone opposed? Thank you.

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alright. And now we have a special presentation

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and a recognition of our township solicitor for many years.

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sure. I'll turn it over to tim deperman.

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I don't think I get down here very much, but, um, joe, on behalf

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of the staff and behalf of the board members, um, just wanted

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to set the stage on, uh, going back to 2015 when I first

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started shortly after you, um, uh, took over from ed cappel.

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um, you've been, uh, a valuable solicitor. I've been in the profession

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for 35 years, and you by far are the best solicitor I've

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had. And one of the nice things, uh, that I, I would like to, well,

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everybody knows that you're one of the best, uh, one of the best tributes

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is your ability to protect us from ourselves and say things that we

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don't always agree with. But, um, I want to, uh, thank you,

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uh, for all your years of service. Thank you, tim. I appreciate it. Thank you.

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just wanna say thank you. Always appreciate working with you and the advice you provided over the years.

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uh, glad to have you, uh, as a resident during your tenure with the township, uh, and in the future.

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and we'd love to have you in the planning commissioner zoning, hearing board . We, if the board will, we'll agree

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to that in that capacity. But thank you very much .

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we, we didn't say we're gonna punish him. Recognize joe. I want to thank you for

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your, your years of service, faithful service, loyal service to this township.

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I don't know, people maybe don't understand if you, if you don't, not from pennsylvania, but

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so much responsibility is driven down to the local municipalities and the

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role of municipal, uh, law. The practice of it is critical in

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the state. Maybe we would grind to a halt without municipal attorneys and good ones to

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represent us. So thank you so much, joe. Appreciate it. Appreciate it.

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alright. My turn. Bill, I, I could say a lot about joe. I know joe, I knew joe

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way before he was even a solicitor here. Um, our boys played, uh, sports

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together at spring court, so I've known him for years before. So it was comforting when

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I won supervisor that joe was here and I go to joe and be like, what do you

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think as a resident? Take off your lawyer hat like on a sunday when I was calm and

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not working my other job. So, always appreciated that. And not only

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do planning commission, I think I signed up his wife kim, for something too. You're not getting out it

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either. . Thank you, ma. Yeah, you're welcome.

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we good joe. As a part of, as a part of course of all, you're not

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going anywhere 'cause you're still resident, joe, and we already have you slate for planning commission.

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so, um, it seems to be a theme. Um, helene and I put

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our heads together trying to see what we, we would, um, like to give you, and we know that you're a traveler, even

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kim are travelers. So we got together, it's called a travel book, and it's,

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um, uh, authored from various people. I think every single country is in here. There's

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some countries I don't think I'd want to visit , but, um,

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this is for, for you. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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fantastic. Thank you so much, brian. Thank you. Thank you everybody.

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now you can leave. Well, you know, there's one thing I've never been able to say in 40 years of doing

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this, but now I can say I won't be staying for the rest of the meeting. ,

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thank you very much. I you shall I get a photo with you, everybody? Sure. Yeah.

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thank you. Thank you. Thanks everybody. Enjoy.

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now, uh, we're gonna have a presentation from our township manager on the

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upcoming open space referendum, which will be on the ballot on november 4th. And,

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uh, this is an informational session, so tim's gonna give a little presentation,

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and then afterwards we're gonna have a short q and a please, informational

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questions only. We just want to get out to the public what this is

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and give you a chance to think about it before you cast your vote on november 4th.

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thank you, mr. Chairman. Um, this, uh, presentation is,

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uh, we we're trying to time this at the september meeting because, um, we know that

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mail-in ballots are gonna be going out and we have a much more thorough

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public information session that we're gonna do on october 15th.

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purpose of tonight is to get this on the public record and, um,

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um, relax the rules a little bit on public comment. Um, well and certainly

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entertain any questions from the audience because there's a lot of, um, questions

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that we've received on, you know, what is open, open space is a, a very,

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uh, um, um, term that can mean many things. And so I want

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to go over very briefly on some of the, um, common, uh,

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things that we've, uh, some of the questions we received and wanted to

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start out. Um, first, uh, just to, um, just say that this ballot initiative

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is, um, uh, on november 4th, 2025. Um,

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and it will be, uh, part of the, uh, general election

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this year. So jeff, if you go through, uh, so the agenda tonight,

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I'm going to try to keep it brief. Uh, we talk a little bit about the referendum purpose,

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the, um, the engagement of natural lands. Uh, that's

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the professional organization that we contracted with public,

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uh, comment opportunities, talk a little bit about the tax impact on

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residents if once the refer, if the referendum is approved, um, the

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use of the tax funds, uh, the frequently asked questions, and then we'll have

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some concluding remarks. So, um, first of all is,

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uh, the referendum purpose. And the question is why now? Uh, a couple of main reasons

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is to engage the community in decision making, pro processes,

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uh, to promote transparency and accountability and govern and,

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and governance, uh, to engage voters to elicit their feedback,

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um, to help mitigate the strain on township infrastructure. And,

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uh, to help bend the cost curve on the impacts of municipal and school district

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services.

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um, the, the upper providence township board enlisted the

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natural lands organization for expertise on the

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open, uh, open space ballot question. Natural lands is a

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5 0 1 c3 nonprofit organization focusing on land

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conservation in eastern pennsylvania and southern new jersey.

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they manage, uh, 43 nature preserves, covering nearly 24,000

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acres and hold about 494 conservation easements

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on another 20 thou 28,000 acres. Uh, natural lands

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also provides open space financing, acquisition services and updates

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to the township's open space opportunities map. And that is viewable

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on the township's, uh, website. We do have a slide later tonight.

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um, how this new levy, uh, how

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this new levy affects the average resident, uh, depends

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on a combination of earned income tax and or their

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home assessed valuation. Uh, natural lands recommended

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and the board of supervisors adopted what we call a blended tax formula, uh,

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which would raise the township's earned income tax from 1% to 1.06%,

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and the real estate tax from 2.75 to 3.25

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mills. This ensures both property owners and workers contribute

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fairly to the open space tax

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for perspective. And this is, uh, we, we tried to find

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a very simple calculator, uh, to, for people to use, uh, because

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everybody's property tax, uh, assessments on their homes differ.

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but, uh, for, for a perspective, the the average assessed

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home in upper providence is around $500,000. Um,

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and to ca to calculate the open space tax, one would need to

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apply the following calculator. You, you have $500,000 if

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a proposed tax increase of 0.50 mills, um, not that's

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been spelled in my o list calculation would be 500,000

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divided by a thousand. Um, that gives you the millage number

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times 0.50, and that would be an estimated tax increase of

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annual tax increase of $250, $250. That's for a home

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that has an assessed valuation of 500,000. As you know, some homes

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are less than that, some homes are more than that. So if it, um, if

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you want to know what, how it will impact you, you would need to use this tax calculator.

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any questions we would encourage people to call the township, uh, offices. We'd be happy to

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help you. The next one would be on the, um, earned income tax.

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uh, calculate earned income tax, uh, calculator

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for perspective, the average earned income in upper providence around 141,771.

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to calculate the open space tax, one would need to apply the following calculator,

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1 41 7 7 6 times 0.06

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of 1%. That's a calculation of around $85,

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uh, annually. Uh, for the eit,

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um, how can the tax be used? Uh, um, is often thought

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that an open space levee can only be used to buy land, but that is

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incorrect. The natural lands trust and the township legal counsel

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have ensured that the ballot question allows flexible use of the funds within

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state law. Funds may be used for any of the following categories.

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uh, land acquisition park and trail development, uh, habitat

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restoration, maintenance and stewardship and planning administration.

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I'm gonna go a little bit more detail on each of those items as far as land acquisition.

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land acquisition refers to the acquiring land, or conservation is

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easements from willing sellers to preserve natural areas, agricultural

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lands, and woodlands. Local funding is frequently supplemented,

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uh, with state and federal grants to, uh, maximize the amount of protected

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open space per dollar expended

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some of the frequently, uh, asked questions. Um, uh,

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go on to the next one. Um,

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parks and trail, uh, parks and trail development also refers to the planning of new parts,

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um, extending trails and improving access to, to natural areas.

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that's one of the areas. Habitat restoration,

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um, refers to the restoring of wetlands streams and,

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uh, crucial habitats. Um, planning administration,

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did I skip under maintenance and stewardship. Maintenance and stewardship,

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uh, refers to the long-term care and management of the

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preserved lands, um, including invasive species control and trail upkeep.

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up to 25% of the funds accumulated balance from

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the referendum authorized tax may be used to develop

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improved design engineer and maintain open space property.

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talk a little bit about the planning and administration. This would cover the cost

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associating with identifying priority preservation areas, uh, conducting

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appraisals and managing the open space program.

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um, I'm gonna move in now to some of the frequently asked questions that

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we received. Uh, can the funds be used for, uh, road repairs

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or other township expenses? The answer to that is no. State law

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mandates that funds be used only for open space preservation

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and related projects, uh, not for services like road maintenance police

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or general administration. Another

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question that we receive is, will the township seize private property with this money?

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um, in other words, we found a nice piece of open space, but we don't have a willing

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seller. Could we use eminent domain to purchase that? The answer to that

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is no. All and acquisitions will be conducted with willing sellers.

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uh, the township will not employ eminent domain to acquire properties for open

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space. This program state law prohibits municipalities

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from involuntarily condemning land for open space purposes.

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another faq that we get is what kind of open space are we talking about?

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this can include various, um, spaces such as farmland,

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woodlands, wetlands, stream corridor, stream corridors,

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uh, historical landscapes and areas for passive,

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passive recreation such as walking trails, natural parks,

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and community gardens. It also focuses on preserving ecological value

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and providing community benefits. What will the funding

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be used for

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purchasing flood, uh, purchasing flood prone properties, uh,

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with the help of federal funds, especially along the chuco river.

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uh, it, it would, uh, prevent further flood damage, restore the floodplain

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and increase rec, increase recreational access to the river,

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uh, purchasing conservation easements, often referred

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to as development rights or conservation easements on private

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lands to, uh, prevent development on working farms, uh,

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wildlife habitats and other ity of the natural recreation areas.

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um, could be used for also the purchasing trail rights

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away to link and or expand the townships publicly accessible trail

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system. And finally, the purchasing open land

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were appropriate for active, uh, recreation, such as, such

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as . Another faq

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is what will the project be selected? How will the project be

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selected in a transparent and fair manner? Project selection

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will adhere to the open space recreation

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and environmental resources plan, and this would be, they would receive

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it, uh, receiving approval from the board of supervisors

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and the montgomery county, uh, plan, commission, and appointed committee

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will evaluate, rank and recommend projects emphasizing lands

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with ecological significance, links to preserved areas,

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public accessibility, or those under development pressure.

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um, and any case, if we find an, uh, a valid

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piece of parcel parcel, the township must conduct a public hearing before acquiring

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any property. Providing an opportunity for residents to present

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their testimonies on acquisitions financed by the open space tax transparency

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and public engagement are critical.

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uh, can these open space funds be combined with other funding sources? Yes,

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then that's a resounding yes. Open space tax funds can be combined

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and are almost always combined with county, state, and federal

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grants for the acquisition of development of new open spaces. Very

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seldom do we not move forward with any type of project

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without some grant, um, assistance. Um, many of

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these grants, particularly from the pennsylvania's, uh, department of conservation

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and natural resources, require matching funds where the grant covers

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part of the cost and the municipality provides the remaining amount.

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another question that we received is, why does the township need a special open space

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tax when we already have money from developers for parks?

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um, and, you know, the park impact fee that we've had for many years from developers

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is a one time charge, um, on new residential subdivisions. Um,

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as our township is now over 95% developed, uh, this fee will yield

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minimum returns in future years. Uh, and open space techs

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will provide a dedicated ongoing funding source to preserve remaining

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undeveloped parcels and maintain our community's character,

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uh, for future generations. Just to drill down, uh, on that for

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a little bit, um, we currently have, um, putting our, putting

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our finance director little bit on the spot. I think we have plus or minus about $2 million

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in the parks and open space fund, give or take a few dollars. People

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say that's a lot of money, but you've gotta keep this in context. Um,

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can you move under the demand? You gotta keep this in context. This

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is kind of the open space priorities map, um, by count,

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and you can correct me, jeff, 'cause I asked you this earlier today, by count we have about

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1,390 acres left of undeveloped property.

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and when you apply that based on the assessed value with common level, with a common level

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ratio, if we, if money was no object, and we could just write a check for

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anything that, that estimated value is around a hundred, uh, probably 150 million,

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$150.5 million is the assessed. It's

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probably the value of a lot of that money. And that's based on that formula.

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some property may be more valuable than that, but I think that's the number

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that we want to keep in perspective. Um, and that is a, uh,

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for a sea fee simple purchase. Um, another one, um, if you can move

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on to the next slide. This is an area of all of our floodplains,

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as you know. Uh, hurricane ida, um, opened all

250
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of our eyes and some of the dangers to some of the structures down in our, down

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in the floodplain. Brian, you can correct me on this statistic, but I think

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of a hundred, 100 of the 103 s and

253
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the floodplain are in montclair and poor providence. And this is a

254
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attached is an arrow image showing the area in which the hundred, uh, properties

255
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are located. Uh, again, if we apply the, the formula as far

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as what those properties are valued, that comes to close to 38 to $40 million.

257
00:19:51,185 --> 00:19:54,885
am I correct? So, so that's 38 million in addition to the 150 million

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00:19:55,905 --> 00:19:58,365
of valuation of open property that we have.

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um, so when you think of $2 million, that's really, that $2 million is a

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finite resource. What we're looking at is creating a, a small steady annual

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income where we as if once properties become available or

262
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we find some other willing sellers, we'll have some avenues to, um,

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kind of react proactively to some of that. Um, one last,

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uh, one other, uh, o uh, frequently asked question is, what will prevent the open space

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revenue from being used for other purposes? And

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mr. Solicitor, you can chime in on some of this, but I think pennsylvania act 1 53 mandates

267
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that open space funds must be only used for preserving open spaces.

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a portion of the funds can maintain properties bought with these funds

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and the funds will be recorded in a separate audible open space account

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in the township's financial records. That concludes

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my faq. Um, there may be some others, but, um,

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I also wanna tell everybody to save this date. It's october 15th.

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that will be our next open space public information. You, this one will

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be facilitated by our consultant, the natural land trust. I think we're gonna have

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some speakers that meeting, um, to go into more depth

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that will also be advertised. Tonight's purpose is just to try to set the

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record straight on what, uh, funds can be used for and

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try to answer some of the faqs that we've gotten. Cheryl, I think we

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have, um, some, some handouts, that we put in the back. So

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if the people would like to leave, they could welcome them to get a copy. And,

281
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um, mr. Chairman, the last slide is, uh,

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questions from the floor. That's questions from the supervisors or anybody from the

283
00:21:41,075 --> 00:21:44,955
audience. I would like to ask questions. I'll ask the first question. ,

284
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my understanding is the township would not be able to purchase property

285
00:21:51,095 --> 00:21:54,875
in excess of the assessed value of that property, right. Appraised value.

286
00:21:55,115 --> 00:21:57,145
am I right? Appraised value. Appraised value, correct.

287
00:22:00,225 --> 00:22:03,995
exactly. We talked about this before. We wanted to fill in

288
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anything that was missing. Is there anything missing? Any information you want?

289
00:22:08,735 --> 00:22:12,595
um, I, I, I think that I would just add to kind of follow up on

290
00:22:12,755 --> 00:22:16,735
what tim has been talking about is that, um, you know, if

291
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you're seeing a lot of development going on in the township, one of the ways that you

292
00:22:20,975 --> 00:22:24,955
can maybe get some more open space or keep some of those larger developments

293
00:22:25,555 --> 00:22:28,595
from building up density is by purchasing conservation

294
00:22:29,595 --> 00:22:33,595
easements or purchasing property. You can purchase property and then put an easement

295
00:22:33,715 --> 00:22:37,495
on it and then sell the property for some of the purposes can be continue to be farmed

296
00:22:37,975 --> 00:22:41,765
or, you know, it can be just a single family home, but maybe

297
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preserve the other acreage. Um, so I, I think that that's, uh, an important

298
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aspect of the proposal that that should

299
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be remembered. And was it even as

300
00:22:54,945 --> 00:22:58,385
development does happen that you could purchase some of the unit

301
00:22:59,135 --> 00:23:02,645
with the money? Could you do that? Like say, okay, instead of 155

302
00:23:03,825 --> 00:23:07,705
units, let's do whatever we would purchase that? Absolutely. If

303
00:23:07,905 --> 00:23:11,625
you, if you have a, a, a willing seller, if you have a developer that has a project

304
00:23:11,925 --> 00:23:15,545
and you say, look, we're willing to buy a conservation

305
00:23:16,385 --> 00:23:20,055
easement on from you. We'll buy some good development rights off of the project and part,

306
00:23:20,405 --> 00:23:24,385
you know, we, we'll buy x number of units and it will reduce the density and create

307
00:23:24,865 --> 00:23:28,865
a, a park and an open space area next to the development that, um, you know,

308
00:23:28,965 --> 00:23:29,965
the, the whole town should be.

309
00:23:34,785 --> 00:23:38,205
the only other thing I'd like to see maybe at the october meeting is the actual

310
00:23:38,805 --> 00:23:42,685
verbiage. It's gonna be on the ballot. What does that, unless we have it, I

311
00:23:42,925 --> 00:23:44,525
actually have it. I don't have it on the screen, but I can,

312
00:23:47,225 --> 00:23:51,045
and I'll just weigh that the verbiage that we have on the ballot is dictated by

313
00:23:51,245 --> 00:23:55,065
statute. So the statute is very precise in how they say

314
00:23:55,285 --> 00:23:59,105
you have to load the ballot initiative. You have to say, you know, do you favor the

315
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imposition of increase in and then the type of tax, what the percentage

316
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is gonna be. Um, and then for what purposes?

317
00:24:08,105 --> 00:24:12,045
so the, the draft of the referendum as we have it in the

318
00:24:12,165 --> 00:24:16,125
ordinance that the board adopted specifically is written so that

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the purposes are as broad as is permitted under the law. So that if, if this were

320
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to be adopted, it wouldn't be, um, he wouldn't really be hemmed

321
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in, in terms of what you could do. So that's the way, the reason it's written, the way it's written

322
00:24:29,265 --> 00:24:33,165
in, in legal, unfortunately. I'll let, uh, jeff is putting it up on the

323
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screen from the,

324
00:24:39,005 --> 00:24:42,705
if anyone else from the republic has a question, you can come forward to the, to the

325
00:24:43,025 --> 00:24:46,785
lectern and uh, state your name and ask it. This is not in place of, we're

326
00:24:47,105 --> 00:24:51,065
still gonna do regular public comment after this, so I'll be up twice. . There

327
00:24:51,385 --> 00:24:55,065
you go. Hi, kristen troutman 1320 blackrock road.

328
00:24:55,925 --> 00:24:58,655
um, my first question is, if this does pass

329
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when people vote in november, is there gonna be verbiage in

330
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the resolution or ordinance stating that monies

331
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used to purchase open space means it will be open space in perpetuity

332
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that the township can never sell it to, say, generate revenue for

333
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something? Because I saw on the agenda tonight, number nine, I think

334
00:25:21,825 --> 00:25:25,825
it is, is there's some township open space that's potentially gonna be

335
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sold. So it's, I'm questioning if we're gonna be taxed to

336
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pay for open space, will it stay open space forever

337
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or will it, if the township comes upon hard times when developers are no longer

338
00:25:38,385 --> 00:25:41,895
developing, um, will that then get sold

339
00:25:42,935 --> 00:25:46,725
like parkhouse? So there are restrictions in,

340
00:25:47,165 --> 00:25:51,065
in terms of how the township can dispose of any property that it requires and how

341
00:25:51,225 --> 00:25:54,785
it goes about doing that as wade in into that fact. Um, you know,

342
00:25:55,685 --> 00:25:59,145
an easement would be something if a development easement

343
00:25:59,875 --> 00:26:03,665
would be something that a, you know, the township could only

344
00:26:04,665 --> 00:26:08,665
dispose of if they went to court and convinced the, the orphans court that they could do

345
00:26:08,865 --> 00:26:12,655
it and it would still serve the purpose that it was intended. So it would be very,

346
00:26:13,055 --> 00:26:16,625
very difficult to ever convey. I I, I can't say that

347
00:26:17,285 --> 00:26:21,225
in perpetuity forever. It would never be disposed of or

348
00:26:21,425 --> 00:26:25,285
sold or anything. 'cause there are a lot of different variables that go into it. But if

349
00:26:25,505 --> 00:26:29,425
that's the purpose that it's being bought for, that's the purpose. It needs to be useful. Okay. 'cause I know what

350
00:26:29,585 --> 00:26:33,485
the county ag preservation program that's in perpetuity, so

351
00:26:34,225 --> 00:26:38,125
I don't understand why the township couldn't also have something like that. So,

352
00:26:38,565 --> 00:26:42,535
um, even the, even the ag program, there are ways to do

353
00:26:42,695 --> 00:26:46,605
it with the agreement of the program. There are ways to do

354
00:26:46,805 --> 00:26:49,675
it. It's just, it's it's not forever.

355
00:26:50,955 --> 00:26:54,885
okay. My next question is, how many parcels of

356
00:26:55,045 --> 00:26:58,805
open space does the township own? Does anybody know?

357
00:26:59,145 --> 00:27:03,125
we own around 500 acres. I, I'm sorry, I don't know the exact number of parcels off the top of my head, but

358
00:27:03,245 --> 00:27:06,645
it's around 500 acres. Okay. Because I want people to know that for every parcel

359
00:27:07,755 --> 00:27:11,615
that gets acquired for open space, it comes off the tax rolls, which

360
00:27:11,965 --> 00:27:15,885
then means that the school taxes go up because that's less property owners paying

361
00:27:16,395 --> 00:27:20,175
into school tax. And when you show the tax for the open space,

362
00:27:21,225 --> 00:27:25,145
$250 or $85, that's

363
00:27:25,565 --> 00:27:29,405
just for open space. We all know our taxes go up every year for the school district

364
00:27:29,745 --> 00:27:33,065
for emergency services, for everything. So, um,

365
00:27:34,045 --> 00:27:38,045
I want people to know that if this does pass and they get their tax bill next year,

366
00:27:38,235 --> 00:27:42,225
it's not just gonna be $250 more. 'cause everything does go

367
00:27:42,445 --> 00:27:46,375
up. So thank you. Thank

368
00:27:46,725 --> 00:27:50,665
you. Can I just add, if

369
00:27:50,885 --> 00:27:54,845
we develop and more people move in, we could also have increase because people

370
00:27:55,165 --> 00:27:58,865
are moving in and we need more emergency service and

371
00:27:59,305 --> 00:28:02,705
we could have two or three more powerpoints. So both of those things could be,

372
00:28:03,425 --> 00:28:07,165
you know, true. Right? Yeah, we could add more, uh, powerpoint

373
00:28:07,725 --> 00:28:11,565
slides on the cost of services. But I'll, maybe I'll use the school district as an example.

374
00:28:11,945 --> 00:28:15,445
for every residential unit, I think we have an average

375
00:28:16,045 --> 00:28:19,225
multiplier of what, 2.5 and maybe off of this 2.5

376
00:28:20,245 --> 00:28:23,945
students. And if, you know, the, uh, per pupil expenditure, uh, in,

377
00:28:24,265 --> 00:28:28,165
in spring forward, I think is around nine or 10, nine or $10,000. I can

378
00:28:28,285 --> 00:28:32,165
guarantee you that we don't one, the average, uh, residential unit does not

379
00:28:32,525 --> 00:28:35,885
generate that amount of, uh, tax to cover,

380
00:28:36,545 --> 00:28:40,525
um, to cover the cost of educating a child. So there

381
00:28:40,685 --> 00:28:44,525
is a net loss, uh, when you have, when, when you do a residential

382
00:28:45,085 --> 00:28:49,075
unit. That's why we try to, when we do planning, we try to have a nice, uh, diverse

383
00:28:50,315 --> 00:28:54,035
base of commercial, industrial and industrial. So you kind

384
00:28:54,325 --> 00:28:58,045
of factors and balances that. Thank you.

385
00:29:04,795 --> 00:29:08,495
victoria schwartz, 2 48 baxter drive, phoenixville. Um,

386
00:29:08,915 --> 00:29:12,415
I actually have kind of two questions, but to tag along on, um,

387
00:29:13,335 --> 00:29:17,315
the, the taxes and the increases in taxes, you're saying that essentially

388
00:29:17,975 --> 00:29:21,675
we can have a 250 and then on top of that 850, which equates to $350,

389
00:29:23,535 --> 00:29:27,395
is that per household? Is that per person? What's it's based on the average,

390
00:29:27,815 --> 00:29:30,745
uh, that those, you wanna go back to those, um, two calculators.

391
00:29:32,745 --> 00:29:36,615
it's based on what the average assessed valuation is. You have to take your own

392
00:29:37,115 --> 00:29:41,065
personal situation and apply it to the calculator to come up with your own tax

393
00:29:41,285 --> 00:29:45,185
bill. 'cause everybody has their own assessment. Sure. Um, everybody, uh,

394
00:29:45,755 --> 00:29:49,725
some people may not have a, uh, an earned income through a job in the

395
00:29:49,845 --> 00:29:53,645
township. You may mm-hmm . You may have un income under unearned income

396
00:29:53,925 --> 00:29:56,965
is not taxed. What about we're, we're trying to look at that. We're trying to,

397
00:29:57,985 --> 00:30:01,965
the best way to explain this is looking at the average of what the average,

398
00:30:02,305 --> 00:30:06,235
uh, assessment valuation for a home and the average income. So people make

399
00:30:06,525 --> 00:30:10,365
more or less than that. Now, is that based on the new assessment meaning a, a newer assessment

400
00:30:10,825 --> 00:30:14,435
or are we gonna have our homes reassessed or the existing assessments? Existing assessments. Okay.

401
00:30:15,105 --> 00:30:18,795
so then second of all, what about people with fixed incomes or even single incomes

402
00:30:19,835 --> 00:30:23,565
that maybe don't make 140? I know, I know that's kind of just a range based

403
00:30:23,915 --> 00:30:27,505
upon income. So how does that equate to people? So for instance, myself,

404
00:30:28,545 --> 00:30:32,445
um, so would I be looking at, you know, even if my existing, would

405
00:30:32,605 --> 00:30:36,355
I be looking at, you know, an additional 350 on top of my existing taxes already,

406
00:30:37,595 --> 00:30:41,595
just to kind of get an, depends what your earned income is and what your assessment. Okay.

407
00:30:41,885 --> 00:30:45,765
so it is based upon earned income as well. You take that into consideration. 'cause right now the earned income

408
00:30:46,125 --> 00:30:50,085
formula. That's correct. Okay. So 'cause right now it's 1% that were being taxed.

409
00:30:50,405 --> 00:30:54,405
am I correct in that? Okay. So based upon that there's a lot of people

410
00:30:54,605 --> 00:30:58,605
with fixed incomes. So I just guess, um, I guess my asking question

411
00:30:58,745 --> 00:31:02,705
is, do we need to flush that out a little bit more? Have that, I mean, I know you guys tried to do a good job in,

412
00:31:02,985 --> 00:31:06,425
in showcasing this. Um, if I could clarify that. I think fixed income,

413
00:31:07,705 --> 00:31:11,025
if you, if you're implying social security, yes, people

414
00:31:11,755 --> 00:31:15,685
retired social security, anybody on fixed income would not be, would not

415
00:31:15,885 --> 00:31:19,155
be, uh, subjected to the it tax because that's not her account. Okay.

416
00:31:20,345 --> 00:31:23,925
all right. So I just think that if we can flush that out a little bit more, especially on property taxes.

417
00:31:24,485 --> 00:31:28,105
'cause as we know, everything does go up and, you know, um, sewers

418
00:31:28,525 --> 00:31:32,485
gone up. Definitely school taxes have gone up and I used to be able

419
00:31:32,605 --> 00:31:36,465
to, you know, I still can't afford my house for right now, but how much longer, you know, I'm, again, I'm

420
00:31:36,685 --> 00:31:40,685
single. So, and I've worked really hard to own a home and not just myself, but there's a

421
00:31:40,765 --> 00:31:44,665
lot of other people who are older who've worked really hard their whole entire lives and

422
00:31:44,885 --> 00:31:48,865
their taxes are being taxed out. Um, so again, I I understand the

423
00:31:49,085 --> 00:31:52,765
purpose of, of the tax. Um, it's just that it is concerning

424
00:31:53,505 --> 00:31:57,485
in terms of that. And then also, um, trying to have, find the breakdown in what exactly

425
00:31:57,805 --> 00:32:01,645
it could be used for. Um, the next question is, um, this is kind of like

426
00:32:02,025 --> 00:32:05,965
why, why now? Why are we looking at this now? Why was this not looked at before? And

427
00:32:06,125 --> 00:32:10,005
why did not we create a fund before, um, to actually have open

428
00:32:10,215 --> 00:32:13,845
space, you know, five, 10 years ago? Why is it now?

429
00:32:14,325 --> 00:32:18,165
I think that was one of the faqs that we addressed. Did I, do you wanna go back

430
00:32:18,365 --> 00:32:22,225
to that? Forgive me if you could just kind of clarify that and I, again, I apologize for

431
00:32:22,445 --> 00:32:26,205
asking a question that maybe already covered. I can't,

432
00:32:26,525 --> 00:32:30,225
um, speak for prior boards. I mean, I mean, in a perfect world, should

433
00:32:30,645 --> 00:32:34,365
we have had enough space tax 20? I mean, you can be the judge of that. I've only been here for

434
00:32:34,785 --> 00:32:38,745
10 years. I'm not here to five. The

435
00:32:39,045 --> 00:32:42,685
point is, I think there's a perception that you bring in a lot of money from developers

436
00:32:43,395 --> 00:32:47,205
that those, those funds that we get are one time resources. Once

437
00:32:47,445 --> 00:32:51,445
they're spent for done. Well then I guess here's my question then. If we anticipate that, maybe

438
00:32:51,725 --> 00:32:55,565
this might be a tag on that question, why are developers not charged a little bit of a higher percent

439
00:32:56,325 --> 00:33:00,125
anticipating? Because once they come in, they develop, they're making lots of money, millions

440
00:33:00,605 --> 00:33:03,945
and millions and millions of dollars. And then also businesses. So

441
00:33:04,745 --> 00:33:08,685
why are they not held a little bit more accountable to this pretty, help me here,

442
00:33:08,805 --> 00:33:12,695
but I think the development the highest per, per home units.

443
00:33:14,705 --> 00:33:18,445
but it's a, if you look at it, it might be like, is it one time fee or is it something that we could,

444
00:33:18,785 --> 00:33:22,005
and again, I'm not, you know, I'm just trying to understand how all this works

445
00:33:24,305 --> 00:33:27,715
and it's, it's ultimately, you know, we're, we're getting taxed continually, continually,

446
00:33:28,405 --> 00:33:32,185
which is understandable. That's the way of life. Everything's taxed. Um, so what's

447
00:33:32,625 --> 00:33:36,425
to say once they come in, they make their money, they go out. Yes, they pay heavy fee. But

448
00:33:36,665 --> 00:33:40,505
it almost seems like every time a new development's built, everything goes up.

449
00:33:40,785 --> 00:33:44,765
and again, the taxes shared amongst the, amongst the rest of

450
00:33:44,965 --> 00:33:48,925
us, obviously school taxes and so forth. I mean, people are literally starting to get tax out of their

451
00:33:49,005 --> 00:33:52,685
homes, especially if retired. Um, that's a concern moving forward.

452
00:33:53,625 --> 00:33:57,605
not that we don't have some great ideas about trying to, you know, figure out a way

453
00:33:57,685 --> 00:34:01,625
that we have to live as a community and work as a community and grow as a community. But

454
00:34:01,885 --> 00:34:05,775
I think that's a big concern. People are looking to have to sell their homes now because every

455
00:34:06,125 --> 00:34:10,125
time taxes go up, people start, you know, they cannot afford it. And so that's a big concern

456
00:34:11,155 --> 00:34:15,045
just in general. So I just wanna say, so, um, I was

457
00:34:15,225 --> 00:34:19,165
on the supervisors and ko to have this referendum because since joining

458
00:34:19,465 --> 00:34:23,445
the board, I've heard like a lot of residents come and discuss, you know,

459
00:34:23,865 --> 00:34:27,365
how the development is impacting them. And since we don't have a lot of reserves

460
00:34:27,925 --> 00:34:30,965
to buy open space, this is one of the only ways that we can

461
00:34:32,135 --> 00:34:36,125
fight the development and get, get those rights. And so it's the choice to the

462
00:34:36,245 --> 00:34:40,045
township, right? You can vote yes or no, but yes, you pay more taxes,

463
00:34:40,465 --> 00:34:44,305
but you get the option to buy a hand and hopefully minimize the development impact. So

464
00:34:44,525 --> 00:34:48,505
I think, and I understand, I get the whole understanding and the, the

465
00:34:49,245 --> 00:34:53,205
resolution of trying to come up with a solution, right? That makes sense. That we're trying to, as a township, trying

466
00:34:53,445 --> 00:34:57,285
to figure out a, an option that we have to preserve that. 'cause yes, everyone is

467
00:34:57,645 --> 00:35:01,645
complaining about not having open space. So I appreciate that. I think it's just

468
00:35:01,805 --> 00:35:05,525
still, you know, again, there's a lot of questions and, and we definitely appreciate you guys trying to bring this.

469
00:35:05,825 --> 00:35:09,805
so maybe by the time october comes around, we can flush out, you know, maybe a little bit

470
00:35:09,925 --> 00:35:13,845
further some of these other questions because a lot of people that are looking for that

471
00:35:14,025 --> 00:35:17,845
is, you know, again, it's gonna be, what is it for how much taxes?

472
00:35:18,225 --> 00:35:22,205
and then that's a state that those taxes can go up at any point in time. I mean that,

473
00:35:22,405 --> 00:35:25,925
again, taxes go up, we get that that's life, but what percentage

474
00:35:26,485 --> 00:35:30,485
do they continually go up? And that's, I think the thing that, you know, there is a concern generally

475
00:35:31,005 --> 00:35:34,525
in that public, especially with people in fixed incomes. And I know that you said that they'll be mostly

476
00:35:35,075 --> 00:35:38,905
okay, but also people who, you know, newer families or the

477
00:35:39,125 --> 00:35:42,925
single, you know, people who have been fortunate enough to buy a house. I think it kind of just comes into

478
00:35:43,205 --> 00:35:47,195
play and maybe that's something we can flush out a little bit more in october and, and those are all fair, fair

479
00:35:47,485 --> 00:35:51,365
points. And I think it's mostly just the choice of the residents if they want this or not. And so that's

480
00:35:52,465 --> 00:35:56,265
the best thing we can do. Like you, you tell us do you want to go to by land or not? You

481
00:35:56,485 --> 00:36:00,445
know, it's, it's up, up to everyone. Well, I think the more that we can flush out the questions and give a little

482
00:36:00,525 --> 00:36:04,365
bit more, you know, just kind of going in, I think that's the whole purpose is just being able to really flush

483
00:36:04,605 --> 00:36:08,055
that out, really have all the information. And again, the questions and appreciate

484
00:36:08,745 --> 00:36:12,725
the transparency here. I think it's just a matter of really maybe adding a couple

485
00:36:12,845 --> 00:36:16,645
things or whatever that may come up. This is why we want to do it in september because

486
00:36:17,125 --> 00:36:21,085
we'll have another one on october and then, then by that time we can have add a couple

487
00:36:21,165 --> 00:36:24,365
more q and as and stuff like that. So thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you.

488
00:36:31,625 --> 00:36:35,125
by the way, this property we're selling in item number nine. It's all used equipment.

489
00:36:35,995 --> 00:36:39,855
there's nice, there's a nice 2018 dodge ranch,

490
00:36:40,575 --> 00:36:44,545
40,000 miles on there. Morning . Hi, my

491
00:36:44,765 --> 00:36:48,625
name is jean corde. I live at 6 36 old state road in

492
00:36:49,295 --> 00:36:52,965
upper providence township. My husband and I, we've lived up in this

493
00:36:53,485 --> 00:36:57,225
township for over 30 years, and I agree with the

494
00:36:57,555 --> 00:37:01,125
past lady is isn't this a good 20 years too late?

495
00:37:01,685 --> 00:37:05,555
I agree with why now. And I also wanna comment that

496
00:37:05,845 --> 00:37:09,405
I think this open space meeting and question, it's kind of

497
00:37:09,905 --> 00:37:13,605
ironic since you have developers sitting right here in the same meeting.

498
00:37:14,705 --> 00:37:18,665
but my question is, I saw you saw, um, put up on the map,

499
00:37:19,145 --> 00:37:22,925
the open the, um, houses down in montclair

500
00:37:24,075 --> 00:37:27,505
that are flooded that you could possibly buy. But

501
00:37:28,185 --> 00:37:32,145
my question is, I don't think any developers are gonna wanna buy this anyhow

502
00:37:32,665 --> 00:37:36,605
as prime land because it's in a flood war, you know, flood area.

503
00:37:37,145 --> 00:37:40,875
so I couldn't see this being developed in some big beautiful community.

504
00:37:41,985 --> 00:37:45,725
but the land and you said is still available. How many

505
00:37:46,055 --> 00:37:49,965
acres are prime land now? All of a sudden, 20 to 30

506
00:37:50,165 --> 00:37:54,125
years later, we're gonna try and save. So how many acres is it? Do you know?

507
00:37:55,105 --> 00:37:59,085
it was 1300 acres. That's not very much. Really? The township is

508
00:37:59,405 --> 00:38:03,285
17,000. Right? Uh, I but in time again, I I I can't speak to

509
00:38:03,445 --> 00:38:07,365
why we didn't do this. 20. Yeah, I mean 1300 acres ist a

510
00:38:07,485 --> 00:38:11,195
lot of land. And I know where I live on old state road,

511
00:38:11,775 --> 00:38:15,125
every single field or orchard has been sold

512
00:38:15,825 --> 00:38:19,765
and now all of a sudden you're concerned about the wildlife. I have a parade

513
00:38:20,105 --> 00:38:23,665
of deer going through my backyard every single day

514
00:38:24,425 --> 00:38:28,365
all the time because the township did try and save the wildlife

515
00:38:28,605 --> 00:38:32,605
20 to 30 years ago. So you say you're concerned about the

516
00:38:33,045 --> 00:38:36,725
wildlife, but it doesn't really seem like you are, I mean I'm very concerned about

517
00:38:37,445 --> 00:38:41,305
wildlife and plants and trees and all that. Um,

518
00:38:42,345 --> 00:38:46,125
and the other comment is, if we didn't have all this,

519
00:38:46,385 --> 00:38:50,185
we wouldn't need all this revenue for roads and schools and you

520
00:38:50,405 --> 00:38:54,325
know, the trails, the trails are beautiful, but somebody's paying for it now.

521
00:38:54,585 --> 00:38:58,205
how much more beautiful can they be? I don't know where the money's coming from,

522
00:38:58,665 --> 00:39:02,565
I'm sure from my taxes, but I'm just I

523
00:39:02,855 --> 00:39:06,725
agree with the last lady is why now? I mean, I I just don't understand it.

524
00:39:06,905 --> 00:39:10,685
and actually I'm just alexis of the board every two years and you have the new board.

525
00:39:11,275 --> 00:39:14,785
yeah. And that is why it's now. Yeah, but I I just can't believe in

526
00:39:15,345 --> 00:39:19,285
at least 20 years. Nobody else thought that you can't control what anyone else. Yeah. Or

527
00:39:19,485 --> 00:39:23,425
the board. Okay, well I'm, I'm voting now. I don't want this and I'm

528
00:39:23,645 --> 00:39:26,485
disappointed in our, my leaders.

529
00:39:28,635 --> 00:39:32,585
alright, any more informational questions? That's what we're looking for.

530
00:39:40,955 --> 00:39:44,285
marlene laska 1142 egypt yard.

531
00:39:46,065 --> 00:39:48,485
I'm just curious why I,

532
00:39:50,705 --> 00:39:53,465
the, the zoning, um,

533
00:39:54,865 --> 00:39:57,985
has, it has already been open space. So zoning,

534
00:39:59,185 --> 00:40:03,025
so why, why now? Uh,

535
00:40:03,825 --> 00:40:06,205
why, why are we,

536
00:40:09,595 --> 00:40:13,065
how, how is is the zoning handled today

537
00:40:14,355 --> 00:40:17,735
for open space? Right now we have a, um, a

538
00:40:18,375 --> 00:40:22,055
a zoning district called open space preservation. That is all of the township

539
00:40:22,895 --> 00:40:26,655
property and a select few other properties. Some of the,

540
00:40:26,995 --> 00:40:30,945
excuse me, some of the county owned properties, some of the state owned property, those are all zoned

541
00:40:31,295 --> 00:40:34,335
open space preservation. Those are already open space properties.

542
00:40:35,315 --> 00:40:39,195
if for some reason, like the parkhouse situation, something was to

543
00:40:39,415 --> 00:40:43,015
sell, the zoning is very limiting on that. Um, the properties

544
00:40:43,655 --> 00:40:47,235
that we are talking about that are represented on this map are

545
00:40:48,495 --> 00:40:52,475
probably mostly zoned r one. Um, I can see some that are zoned io

546
00:40:52,715 --> 00:40:56,615
two io io one. Um, there's a

547
00:40:56,735 --> 00:41:00,335
variety of different zoning. The open space parcels, the undeveloped parcels

548
00:41:00,835 --> 00:41:04,205
are not in the open space preservation district. That

549
00:41:04,855 --> 00:41:08,495
district is really solely township and municipally

550
00:41:09,095 --> 00:41:12,945
owned property. So, so you are saying

551
00:41:13,415 --> 00:41:16,605
that potentially, uh,

552
00:41:17,525 --> 00:41:21,055
the, you can have a residential community.

553
00:41:23,245 --> 00:41:27,115
our, our residential property already, uh, zoned

554
00:41:28,695 --> 00:41:32,545
residential. If it's not, if something's not zoned

555
00:41:32,825 --> 00:41:36,465
open space preservation, it is probably zoned r one.

556
00:41:36,995 --> 00:41:40,595
okay. Maybe r two. That's the current zoning. I mean, there's

557
00:41:41,085 --> 00:41:44,945
a debate to be held that if I zone something open space preservation, I'm taking away the

558
00:41:45,365 --> 00:41:49,285
property rights of that, of that property. And if I do that, then you as a landowner

559
00:41:49,765 --> 00:41:53,765
could come to me and say, you've taken my property rights, you owe me x amount of money for

560
00:41:53,965 --> 00:41:57,965
those property rights as an r one property, as an open space

561
00:41:58,245 --> 00:42:02,125
preservation property. I don't have the map. I can't get to it real quickly. For the open space

562
00:42:02,405 --> 00:42:06,285
preservation zoning district, that is again, township owned and

563
00:42:06,485 --> 00:42:10,045
municipally owned property that we put into that open space

564
00:42:10,645 --> 00:42:14,525
category. If we are to acquire additional property in the future,

565
00:42:14,875 --> 00:42:18,645
whether that's through this ordinance or through another method, we will be putting that

566
00:42:19,165 --> 00:42:23,155
property also into the open space preservation. It's a little bit more of an administrative task

567
00:42:23,475 --> 00:42:27,145
than a pure zoning task, but that's how we sort of track what is

568
00:42:27,935 --> 00:42:31,285
owned as the township. If you look at everything up there, that is a dark green

569
00:42:32,425 --> 00:42:36,365
on that map. Okay. I guarantee if you pull up the zoning map, it's gonna

570
00:42:36,485 --> 00:42:40,085
show up as, as open space preservation zoning district. And so the township

571
00:42:40,725 --> 00:42:44,625
property, the other existed, uh, some other municipal owned property is all

572
00:42:44,845 --> 00:42:48,805
in the open space preservation zoning district. And again, these two things are somewhat,

573
00:42:49,965 --> 00:42:53,565
somewhat related but really not related. Open space preservation is an act by this board,

574
00:42:54,505 --> 00:42:58,205
by the municipal government to open to preserve open space

575
00:42:59,145 --> 00:43:02,125
and zoning is just an administrative designation for the property.

576
00:43:04,345 --> 00:43:07,895
but, but there are properties that are zoned open space

577
00:43:09,035 --> 00:43:12,765
that are owned by the township. That are owned by the township already. Yes. Already.

578
00:43:13,555 --> 00:43:17,205
okay. Okay. Yeah, I I think I know what you're talking about.

579
00:43:18,155 --> 00:43:21,985
park house was zoned open space. That was a mistake made by the board at

580
00:43:22,205 --> 00:43:26,165
the time that was sold by the county. Open space on privately

581
00:43:26,645 --> 00:43:30,555
held land has no meaning as far as preservation goes, only

582
00:43:31,025 --> 00:43:34,845
on publicly held land. And you can see on the map what

583
00:43:35,085 --> 00:43:35,865
we hold. So

584
00:43:44,985 --> 00:43:48,405
tim 1 4 1 7 4 7 morgan lane in collegeville.

585
00:43:49,625 --> 00:43:53,405
um, so what you're talking about there is the green, the dark green that's

586
00:43:53,685 --> 00:43:57,445
already owned. Uh, first off I'd like to say thank you for the informational meetings

587
00:43:57,805 --> 00:44:00,805
because, you know, since we moved here in 2016,

588
00:44:02,225 --> 00:44:05,815
um, open space has been continually declining. Right?

589
00:44:06,345 --> 00:44:10,265
and I think everybody here would agree that if

590
00:44:10,485 --> 00:44:14,445
you just asked do you want more open space in upper providence township, most people are

591
00:44:14,645 --> 00:44:17,705
gonna say yes. I would say that the signs that we see around

592
00:44:18,875 --> 00:44:22,665
vote yes for open space, they're a little bit deceitful because not

593
00:44:22,885 --> 00:44:26,705
all of the information is out there. So thank you for to the board for, for

594
00:44:26,925 --> 00:44:30,635
holding informational sessions so that we can actually educate

595
00:44:31,245 --> 00:44:35,015
the public to get to where we need to go. Chapter two 70

596
00:44:35,835 --> 00:44:39,815
of the zoning. Um, so division land, but yes. Right. So the conservation

597
00:44:40,335 --> 00:44:43,735
program, so chapter two 70 already restricts,

598
00:44:44,465 --> 00:44:48,335
right? How much open space can be when we zone something or we

599
00:44:48,495 --> 00:44:52,415
develop on certain land. The question is, isn't there already a restriction

600
00:44:53,485 --> 00:44:57,255
that will prevent the entire land from being developed

601
00:44:57,795 --> 00:45:01,525
for whatever purpose? There needs to be some open space conservation within that

602
00:45:01,845 --> 00:45:05,555
development. The way zoning works, which is chapter 300 zoning,

603
00:45:06,605 --> 00:45:10,085
when you come in for a development, when when most residential development comes in, there's

604
00:45:10,735 --> 00:45:14,615
anywhere between a 10% to sometimes 50% set aside

605
00:45:14,895 --> 00:45:18,895
for open space depending on the district it's in. So there's different districts from r

606
00:45:19,075 --> 00:45:22,895
one to r four, right? Village preservation. So there's osr one o

607
00:45:23,135 --> 00:45:27,075
sr two, right? R one, r two oh, r three, r four o sr two and osr one

608
00:45:27,315 --> 00:45:30,725
are, are, um, they are districts that you can apply. They're

609
00:45:31,585 --> 00:45:35,295
still zoned or one, but you can apply osr one to it,

610
00:45:36,195 --> 00:45:38,935
osr one, in this case, let's use that. There's like a 75

611
00:45:40,245 --> 00:45:43,495
acre minimum that you have to set aside for when you've use that development

612
00:45:44,295 --> 00:45:48,135
district, that development option. Um, with, with an

613
00:45:48,375 --> 00:45:52,135
r one piece, with just a basic r one piece, there's a 10% set aside of open space.

614
00:45:53,285 --> 00:45:56,895
what this program is aiming to do is to purchase

615
00:45:57,315 --> 00:46:01,145
all of that. So instead of saying if you have a hundred acre piece and you set aside

616
00:46:01,495 --> 00:46:05,415
75 for open space and you've 25 houses on there

617
00:46:05,535 --> 00:46:09,535
for the one acre development, well actually you get the full development. So you, you have

618
00:46:09,615 --> 00:46:12,575
the houses on the 25%, you save 75%.

619
00:46:14,225 --> 00:46:18,035
we're looking to save through this, the whole thing, all of, so

620
00:46:18,255 --> 00:46:22,255
we would be buying the entire parcel. Yes. Turning it back

621
00:46:22,495 --> 00:46:26,495
to, to dark green on your map. It, it would become, it would

622
00:46:26,575 --> 00:46:30,575
become township owned at that point. And we would not, we can't develop it. We would not be developing

623
00:46:31,015 --> 00:46:34,555
it. So we're basically competing to buy

624
00:46:35,215 --> 00:46:39,055
property instead of developers buying property. Or that is, that

625
00:46:39,335 --> 00:46:43,215
is one drawback to it is yes, we are competing with the developers of the world to buy property. So this

626
00:46:43,375 --> 00:46:46,855
is just gonna up the cost between, uh, citizens versus the developers,

627
00:46:47,425 --> 00:46:51,095
which it seems like has been the age old battle in this district. I,

628
00:46:51,465 --> 00:46:55,415
again, it's the free market. We have to go out as the township in the free market. Now you hope

629
00:46:55,655 --> 00:46:59,615
that you have a benevolent farmer, as I call 'em, that

630
00:46:59,895 --> 00:47:03,855
someone that wants to say, hey, I don't wanna see my property developed. Let's find a way to make this

631
00:47:04,055 --> 00:47:07,655
work. But you as a property owner or or a benevolent

632
00:47:08,095 --> 00:47:12,095
farmer as a property owner, have the right to sell their property for whatever they wanna sell it for. We're just

633
00:47:12,215 --> 00:47:16,125
out there competing with them at that same, at that same rate. Okay.

634
00:47:16,635 --> 00:47:20,515
I'm not saying it's the best option and just say that's the reality of it. Right? So

635
00:47:21,325 --> 00:47:25,015
just to clarify, it also wouldn't always have to necessarily be fee simple ownership,

636
00:47:25,585 --> 00:47:29,485
which means that you own the entire property and you know, you, you own it outright.

637
00:47:29,825 --> 00:47:33,525
you can buy it and essentially go to the benevolent farmer and say, hey,

638
00:47:34,105 --> 00:47:37,885
you can stay on your property, you can continue to farm it, you can continue to live on it,

639
00:47:38,265 --> 00:47:42,105
but we're gonna buy those development rates. So next time a developer might come and say

640
00:47:42,325 --> 00:47:45,485
that they want to put up the townhouse community or something like that and you're in your

641
00:47:46,685 --> 00:47:49,985
property, they would say, well, I already sold the development rights to the township. So

642
00:47:50,875 --> 00:47:54,485
it's not necessarily always a fee ownership, a fee simple ownership situation.

643
00:47:55,065 --> 00:47:58,895
and I wanted to ask a question because what a good topic. We can't

644
00:47:59,505 --> 00:48:03,325
go above the assessed value, right? So we're not really in competition with the

645
00:48:03,785 --> 00:48:07,685
selves. So. Correct. Can I ask another

646
00:48:08,085 --> 00:48:12,045
question? What the assessment would be? I mean, you can pay under, but you

647
00:48:12,165 --> 00:48:16,095
can't go over what the assessed value is and the assessed value is gonna be based on what comparable

648
00:48:16,765 --> 00:48:20,685
sales have made for comparable land. So did you

649
00:48:20,805 --> 00:48:24,765
say before it was the assessed or the appraised value? I may have misspoke. I

650
00:48:25,085 --> 00:48:29,085
I do mean the assessed value. The assessed value. No, it's the appraised value. The app app

651
00:48:29,205 --> 00:48:33,125
value. Sorry, I used the wrong word. So, so with the appraised value, who is the person

652
00:48:33,285 --> 00:48:37,265
that is gonna do the appraisal and is that also open for public? We

653
00:48:37,485 --> 00:48:41,005
have public information that shared to the citizens. Because

654
00:48:42,745 --> 00:48:45,925
that's a, right, like

655
00:48:46,795 --> 00:48:50,625
that should be public information. Correct. Can

656
00:48:50,845 --> 00:48:54,385
you guarantee, is it written in the referendum that it will be

657
00:48:55,145 --> 00:48:59,125
public information as to who is actually doing the appraisal? It will eventually be

658
00:48:59,245 --> 00:49:02,925
public information in the midst of a negotiation for property. Wouldn't

659
00:49:03,445 --> 00:49:07,445
have to make it public, but it would eventually be public document that,

660
00:49:07,725 --> 00:49:10,955
that they could, that could be released. We do hire an appraisal firm,

661
00:49:12,025 --> 00:49:16,005
an independent appraisal firm to do the appraisal. How that's negotiated is

662
00:49:16,205 --> 00:49:20,045
up to the develop to the property owner. Our attorney negotiations,

663
00:49:21,185 --> 00:49:25,105
I'm being not involved with sale, so right. I just as

664
00:49:25,365 --> 00:49:28,755
a concerned citizen, you can see how my concern

665
00:49:29,535 --> 00:49:33,275
would be, depending on who's doing the appraisal, they

666
00:49:33,565 --> 00:49:37,185
could appraise it for whatever they want. And then the willing seller

667
00:49:37,775 --> 00:49:41,125
could be someone else, whoever they want. And then

668
00:49:41,905 --> 00:49:45,745
the person that is selling the property is just getting tax

669
00:49:46,085 --> 00:49:50,005
diverted citizens taxes to enrich themselves at,

670
00:49:50,345 --> 00:49:54,285
at the end of the, you have, you have a valid point, but all we can do is trust in the real estate

671
00:49:54,445 --> 00:49:58,265
and the appraisal professionals that we hire. You've done it for years and,

672
00:49:58,485 --> 00:50:02,365
and I, I get where you're going and what your point is, but all we can

673
00:50:02,525 --> 00:50:06,505
do from a municipal standpoint is trust the appraiser that we use. Now

674
00:50:06,865 --> 00:50:10,595
we, is there a petition for appraisal or is it a closed competition

675
00:50:11,355 --> 00:50:15,245
that is not open to the public? Is the question and I,

676
00:50:15,585 --> 00:50:19,525
an appraisal is done by the appraiser. They, they don't have a public

677
00:50:19,775 --> 00:50:23,045
forum to right, but you appoint the appraising company

678
00:50:24,065 --> 00:50:28,025
or is there appraisal companies that can compete for

679
00:50:28,655 --> 00:50:32,565
who's going to be hired? Um, I do the appraisal generally through

680
00:50:32,765 --> 00:50:36,645
the board. The appraisal wouldn't be a bidding process. It's a, it's professional services,

681
00:50:36,825 --> 00:50:40,445
so there's no requirement to go out to bid. But I mean, all appraisers are certified.

682
00:50:40,925 --> 00:50:44,685
they have state licenses, they are required to, they have ethics

683
00:50:44,965 --> 00:50:48,485
requirements, things like that. I mean, any of the appraisers I know would,

684
00:50:49,185 --> 00:50:53,125
you know, they it, they would never do anything like that. I

685
00:50:53,245 --> 00:50:56,705
mean it's, it's like an engineer falsifying a document to

686
00:50:57,845 --> 00:51:01,165
contrary to engineering principles. I mean it's, it's, you have to trust your professionals.

687
00:51:03,795 --> 00:51:07,605
okay. You see what I'm, you see what I'm asking? I mean, we've all gotten appraisals

688
00:51:08,205 --> 00:51:11,305
done before. What you're asking is basically criminal corruption. So

689
00:51:12,565 --> 00:51:16,565
I mean I, we we can't, but that's why I'm asking. It should be. That's why my state first statement

690
00:51:16,925 --> 00:51:20,375
was it should be public knowledge. Yes. Because an appraisal would eventually

691
00:51:21,185 --> 00:51:24,125
become available to the public in the midst of negotiating

692
00:51:25,285 --> 00:51:29,005
a price and doing that. That's not a public document, that's not subject to rights.

693
00:51:29,325 --> 00:51:33,305
no law. But when the, when the board would actually move to, uh,

694
00:51:33,665 --> 00:51:37,045
to take official action, the appraisal would be publicly available.

695
00:51:38,755 --> 00:51:42,425
okay. So after the fact it, it would be subject to

696
00:51:44,665 --> 00:51:48,035
rights to know and it would be publicly available information. Correct.

697
00:51:48,915 --> 00:51:52,605
okay. Um, so I just wanna make one comment. So you mentioned

698
00:51:53,105 --> 00:51:56,985
the sign that you see as they vote. Yes. Those are not township signs. We, we

699
00:51:57,205 --> 00:52:01,205
are. No, I agree. I just wanna make sure, because you mention that the signs you guys had out yes. I understand

700
00:52:01,565 --> 00:52:05,525
that it's, it's not, this isn't a board project. This is, I just wanted to make sure that everyone's aware that the

701
00:52:05,725 --> 00:52:09,625
natasha was not telling anyone how to vote. It is your choice. Okay. Thank you. Correct. Yes.

702
00:52:10,745 --> 00:52:14,545
um, you mentioned that, that the funds that were

703
00:52:14,765 --> 00:52:18,605
in the, that were in the program, um,

704
00:52:20,045 --> 00:52:23,825
so they stay in that program in perpetuity or would they eventually revert

705
00:52:24,065 --> 00:52:26,785
to a possible general fund after a certain timeframe?

706
00:52:28,355 --> 00:52:32,105
under state law, they cannot go to the general fund. It has to be a special correct. They

707
00:52:32,385 --> 00:52:36,245
have to be put in a segregated fund. Certain percentage of them, I think 25% can

708
00:52:36,545 --> 00:52:40,505
be used for like maintenance and, uh, development of the

709
00:52:40,625 --> 00:52:43,905
properties. But the rest, it has to stay within that segregated fund.

710
00:52:44,655 --> 00:52:45,915
okay. Um,

711
00:52:49,275 --> 00:52:53,155
and is there any, or was there any consideration to a possible sunset

712
00:52:53,755 --> 00:52:57,115
clause of this program? Um,

713
00:52:59,215 --> 00:53:03,165
if, if we get to a point that, you know, we, we've

714
00:53:03,515 --> 00:53:06,675
raised enough funds that we don't see that it's necessary anymore.

715
00:53:07,625 --> 00:53:11,615
like, or hey, if the citizens no longer, like, uh,

716
00:53:12,145 --> 00:53:15,175
what, how this is going, uh, that the

717
00:53:16,215 --> 00:53:20,155
tax increase will ever go away. Or like most

718
00:53:20,395 --> 00:53:23,785
taxes, once you raise the taxes, the taxes are raised forever.

719
00:53:25,465 --> 00:53:29,405
so there is no sunset clause in the ordinance that was adopted by the

720
00:53:29,525 --> 00:53:33,525
board. If you adopt a referendum, if it passes, it has to be around

721
00:53:33,825 --> 00:53:37,825
for a certain number of years before it can be repeal. I think it's five or six years. I'm

722
00:53:38,045 --> 00:53:41,885
trying to check the statute, but that's as soon ast that it could be repealed.

723
00:53:42,165 --> 00:53:45,765
otherwise it has to be in place for that number of years. Right. But then afterwards

724
00:53:46,205 --> 00:53:49,775
it could be repealed. There was no discussion going

725
00:53:50,235 --> 00:53:54,045
into this about a sunset clause that would, the ordinance

726
00:53:54,475 --> 00:53:58,385
that would put it back up for a vote, the ordinance that was adopted does not have a sunset set.

727
00:54:01,555 --> 00:54:05,525
um, okay.

728
00:54:05,815 --> 00:54:07,375
that's it. Thank you for talking. Thank you.

729
00:54:10,125 --> 00:54:13,855
alright. There's anyone else with an informational question,

730
00:54:14,485 --> 00:54:18,435
otherwise we're gonna move on to regular public comments at this time. And,

731
00:54:18,875 --> 00:54:22,855
uh, so if you have regular comments, I'd ask you to come forward again to elect her and state your

732
00:54:23,055 --> 00:54:26,175
name and, uh, please try to hold your comment to three minutes.

733
00:54:30,045 --> 00:54:33,795
okay. Trying to talk best. Um, I know the

734
00:54:34,135 --> 00:54:37,995
quest project is on the agenda tonight and I know there's been a lot of, uh,

735
00:54:38,885 --> 00:54:42,855
chatter about the historic farmhouse, just like mr.

736
00:54:42,935 --> 00:54:46,285
timer's not working. So I'm timing you. I will buzz you. Okay.

737
00:54:47,035 --> 00:54:50,995
um, I just wanted to know if anybody here or

738
00:54:51,215 --> 00:54:55,115
the developers know anything about the historic farmhouse. Um,

739
00:54:56,215 --> 00:55:00,195
'cause I did some digging, um, handed

740
00:55:00,635 --> 00:55:03,175
the pajama in the blue shirt right there. I could

741
00:55:04,655 --> 00:55:07,985
. Um, the house,

742
00:55:08,875 --> 00:55:11,655
my parents owned the house from 1978 to 1988.

743
00:55:12,955 --> 00:55:15,495
um, they bought it from, uh, the griffiths.

744
00:55:17,075 --> 00:55:20,675
bob griffith had been a long time township supervisor. Um,

745
00:55:22,355 --> 00:55:25,935
and my mother researched it as far back as she could,

746
00:55:26,715 --> 00:55:30,695
uh, within the county records. And it dates back

747
00:55:30,995 --> 00:55:34,425
to at least 1747, um, which

748
00:55:35,035 --> 00:55:38,995
is 58 years before the township was the township. Um,

749
00:55:40,655 --> 00:55:43,115
I gave you some pictures. One is of the house, um,

750
00:55:44,715 --> 00:55:48,615
the barn. It was a, a large barn. It had two sections that kind of met

751
00:55:48,815 --> 00:55:52,815
in the center. And when my parents bought it, uh, there was

752
00:55:52,975 --> 00:55:56,945
a lot of rock there. So they had to tear the one, the rear section off, which

753
00:55:57,395 --> 00:55:59,875
was towards blackrock park. Um,

754
00:56:01,995 --> 00:56:05,815
uh, let's see. Yeah, they sold it in 88 to reland, who then turned it into the quest

755
00:56:06,335 --> 00:56:10,315
property. Um, let's see. Um,

756
00:56:12,635 --> 00:56:16,535
so considering that it was built sometime probably

757
00:56:16,655 --> 00:56:20,395
before 1747, but like I said, we didn't go to philadelphia to,

758
00:56:20,675 --> 00:56:24,665
we didn't want to go to philadelphia to look at any more property records. So that makes the

759
00:56:24,985 --> 00:56:28,565
center section, which we determined by studying

760
00:56:29,025 --> 00:56:32,365
how it was built architecturally, that, that's the oldest section in the house.

761
00:56:33,265 --> 00:56:36,925
and then the end section that goes, uh, back towards the skate park

762
00:56:37,385 --> 00:56:41,325
was probably the second section built. And the stone park, I mean,

763
00:56:41,445 --> 00:56:44,325
it's all stone, but the part closest to the road was probably the third section.

764
00:56:45,585 --> 00:56:48,965
um, on the last page I made a copy of and they're not great.

765
00:56:49,785 --> 00:56:53,725
um, we metal detected there like around the house and we found

766
00:56:54,045 --> 00:56:57,725
a button or what we believe is a button because it's got an edge, it's hollowed

767
00:56:58,165 --> 00:57:02,045
out. Um, metal, the metal decayed to

768
00:57:02,325 --> 00:57:06,285
a certain extent, but we did a rubbing, which is on there, but the button, uh, dates back

769
00:57:06,565 --> 00:57:10,485
to 1780 and it's got like a double-headed eagle,

770
00:57:10,705 --> 00:57:14,615
so it looks like a prussian type thing. Um, and we also, while

771
00:57:14,965 --> 00:57:18,885
we lived there, found a letter in the attic of the middle section, which is the

772
00:57:19,005 --> 00:57:22,625
oldest, um, from the civil war. So

773
00:57:23,195 --> 00:57:27,165
it's not in the best of shape either, and I accidentally chopped the bottom of it off, but you can see

774
00:57:27,285 --> 00:57:31,005
the date on there. So I just want to share some of the

775
00:57:31,405 --> 00:57:34,065
historic farmhouse significance with the township. So, um,

776
00:57:35,505 --> 00:57:39,215
so that's about it. Thank you. Thank

777
00:57:39,565 --> 00:57:41,085
you, thank you. I'm glad. Don't be preserved.

778
00:57:52,445 --> 00:57:56,365
victoria schitz, 2 48 baxter. And this is open form, correct? Just for anything that's

779
00:57:56,645 --> 00:58:00,565
on the, the ballot. Okay. Um, I just have a question and, and more of also

780
00:58:00,805 --> 00:58:04,765
a statement as well. The sewer bill, I know that's up for discussion and regardless

781
00:58:04,965 --> 00:58:08,845
of putting it into real estate taxes, um, I, for one absolutely would prefer

782
00:58:09,205 --> 00:58:12,845
to keep it separate as it is. Um, when I started, I've lived here for about,

783
00:58:13,775 --> 00:58:17,625
since I've moved back to the area for about 17 years. Um, we

784
00:58:17,845 --> 00:58:21,395
used to have it, obviously it was a quarterly, it was $200, now it's

785
00:58:22,335 --> 00:58:25,365
352. Well, it, it raised up to about $152

786
00:58:26,425 --> 00:58:30,365
in excess. Um, what's very helpful, especially for people trying to

787
00:58:30,485 --> 00:58:34,385
pay their bills and understanding what their usage is, is by rolling it

788
00:58:34,605 --> 00:58:38,205
into a real estate tax, we will kind of lose the transparency of it, even though

789
00:58:38,615 --> 00:58:42,605
quote unquote have a, a semi, um, itemized, I guess billing statement

790
00:58:43,005 --> 00:58:47,005
or however that's supposed to look. Uh, I for one, prefer to keep it separate. This way I understand

791
00:58:47,545 --> 00:58:51,445
the, the, um, rules and regulations, if you will, the sewer bill. I can see when

792
00:58:51,685 --> 00:58:55,675
it goes up, why it goes up. Again, coming from different households, I know different

793
00:58:56,285 --> 00:59:00,205
townships do different things. Phoenixville has it by usage. It might be a flat

794
00:59:00,405 --> 00:59:04,305
rate. Um, I went from $50 or you know, if you will, uh,

795
00:59:04,575 --> 00:59:08,525
again, 200 bucks. Now it's to a month where, where it is now, it's $88 a

796
00:59:08,645 --> 00:59:12,565
month on one person person. Now, that's not to equate that, of course we have

797
00:59:12,845 --> 00:59:16,795
families, but, um, it's nice to be able to know exactly what you're paying for when

798
00:59:17,085 --> 00:59:20,165
it comes to sewer. So I really would like to see that stay separate.

799
00:59:21,145 --> 00:59:24,945
um, and if, and if not, I would like to also have an explanation maybe of why

800
00:59:25,265 --> 00:59:29,205
you guys were thinking about rolling it in. 'cause that's one thing I do not know, like what is the purpose

801
00:59:29,385 --> 00:59:33,365
of wanting to roll the sewer bill into real estate taxes? So maybe you can enlighten,

802
00:59:33,905 --> 00:59:37,745
uh, enlighten me on that and, and what that's about. Um, the second thing, um,

803
00:59:37,965 --> 00:59:41,505
that I would like to know about, and again, you can share this, is, um,

804
00:59:42,315 --> 00:59:46,205
someone had already asked the questions, but what is, uh, what are the

805
00:59:46,325 --> 00:59:50,065
properties that the township are looking to sell? And that's

806
00:59:50,485 --> 00:59:54,445
something I'd like to know. Okay. . And then, um, another

807
00:59:54,845 --> 00:59:58,805
thing is also township pension plans. I was a little

808
00:59:58,885 --> 01:00:02,565
curious as to why that's kind of on the, on the agenda. I mean,

809
01:00:02,905 --> 01:00:06,585
you know, just curiosity on the that. Um, and then the last one is,

810
01:00:07,465 --> 01:00:11,405
um, where's the new public works facility located and where's the old one?

811
01:00:11,705 --> 01:00:15,295
and why do we need to have that kind of transparency in, in order to understand

812
01:00:15,965 --> 01:00:19,885
where the new one is going and the cost and all that. So those are just a couple of my questions was on the agenda.

813
01:00:20,545 --> 01:00:24,445
the first one is because we would save money, and so for the township, if we rolled,

814
01:00:25,425 --> 01:00:28,925
um, if julie took over the, the budget. Okay. So

815
01:00:29,685 --> 01:00:33,485
I, I don't anything else money because we did that before. Think was important.

816
01:00:33,875 --> 01:00:37,725
yeah, we, we did that before it was $200, it was $50 a quarter. Now, brenda,

817
01:00:38,025 --> 01:00:42,005
thanks. Yeah, I don't know anymore. I just put that that's okay. But I, I appreciate that. So if anybody

818
01:00:42,325 --> 01:00:46,285
else can share within that, or if they have any idea or what that looks like

819
01:00:46,665 --> 01:00:50,615
and what's the price, how, how will we know the differentiation, all that stuff. We we're

820
01:00:50,965 --> 01:00:54,805
not gonna vote on it tonight. We tabled it because we need more time to answer all those

821
01:00:55,165 --> 01:00:59,125
questions. Okay. So at least then you'll, at least you'll have some questions exactly. To know what to answer. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate

822
01:00:59,485 --> 01:01:02,285
that. Thank you. Thank you. Mm-hmm .

823
01:01:14,275 --> 01:01:17,935
15. The phillies are on late tonight. Al zi, 1 28 patriot drive.

824
01:01:18,665 --> 01:01:21,485
um, comment about quest, then I'll make a comment about

825
01:01:22,705 --> 01:01:26,565
the open space thing first with quest, um, like everybody else, about two years

826
01:01:26,745 --> 01:01:30,425
ago, we were shocked to find out that the quest building was sold. And,

827
01:01:30,905 --> 01:01:34,825
um, initially the reaction of developing it was not

828
01:01:35,405 --> 01:01:39,355
pleasant. But I can say that over the past couple years, seeing what

829
01:01:39,945 --> 01:01:43,635
is planned here, it's a unique type of property that

830
01:01:44,045 --> 01:01:47,845
I think only upper providence can pull off. This isn't being built in limerick. It's

831
01:01:48,125 --> 01:01:52,085
not being built in lower providence for a reason. Can't handle it. This is still

832
01:01:52,245 --> 01:01:55,825
the jewel of the, of the montgomery county. So, um,

833
01:01:56,785 --> 01:02:00,585
it combines, um, commercial, residential tax

834
01:02:00,835 --> 01:02:04,565
base, um, support. And it's a, it's a well planned

835
01:02:05,115 --> 01:02:08,365
community. And I told you before, your job's getting harder,

836
01:02:09,145 --> 01:02:12,705
not easier than when we had it. 'cause you have, you know, ground

837
01:02:13,235 --> 01:02:16,905
pegs and square holes. So, uh, I know you have other things

838
01:02:17,345 --> 01:02:20,905
on this agenda, uh, over at, um, across the street at, um,

839
01:02:21,385 --> 01:02:25,165
the pfizer property. And, um, they're gonna ask you to do other things

840
01:02:25,765 --> 01:02:29,405
probably. So look at, instead of changing zoning, look at

841
01:02:29,905 --> 01:02:33,705
little pieces and make your opinion known what you

842
01:02:33,925 --> 01:02:37,805
want developed and help ms. , you know how many times I said when a developer

843
01:02:38,245 --> 01:02:42,175
came in with a crummy project, I said, go build it in limerick, right? Where

844
01:02:42,525 --> 01:02:45,865
they have the social security building. Sorry, sorry, limerick people. But,

845
01:02:46,545 --> 01:02:50,265
um, but it's true. Um, so, um,

846
01:02:50,905 --> 01:02:54,605
the, uh, old house that's on the, uh, on the property at quest,

847
01:02:55,095 --> 01:02:59,085
think you have to look at what can actually happen. We can't have a coffee shop there

848
01:02:59,325 --> 01:03:02,805
that's not gonna support it. Low providence did a nice job with the cvs

849
01:03:03,405 --> 01:03:07,405
building. It's a law office. It's a, it's a high end law office. So it's just, just

850
01:03:07,645 --> 01:03:11,605
think about that. I think you're gonna prove this tonight. Just you can turn

851
01:03:11,765 --> 01:03:15,485
that building into something. If think it's going to be a bite stop with a coffee

852
01:03:15,795 --> 01:03:19,795
shop. Not happening. Not realistic. It really, really isn't. So just

853
01:03:20,085 --> 01:03:23,525
stick out of the box. There was a lot of talk about the school buses last time.

854
01:03:24,745 --> 01:03:28,645
we had a battle with the school district in 2015 because they wouldn't go into

855
01:03:28,765 --> 01:03:32,365
the neighborhoods. They're in the neighborhoods in river crest because of the battle

856
01:03:32,785 --> 01:03:36,325
we had back then. Um, jo and tom deo were very good

857
01:03:36,945 --> 01:03:40,655
to, um, help the transportation department realize that a school bus won't

858
01:03:41,005 --> 01:03:44,965
ruin the roads inside the development. So I think, um, the developer

859
01:03:45,445 --> 01:03:49,405
here probably has a, a decent, um, plan. There's not a chance in the world. The bus

860
01:03:49,585 --> 01:03:53,545
is gonna go into this development though. But the school district has done a better job

861
01:03:54,725 --> 01:03:58,645
bringing the buses where they need to be. Um, as far

862
01:03:58,845 --> 01:04:02,805
as the open space piece, um, we bought a

863
01:04:02,925 --> 01:04:06,885
lot of property, a lot of property, and we took a lot of heat for

864
01:04:07,085 --> 01:04:10,565
it. How ironic. Now people are saying,

865
01:04:11,145 --> 01:04:15,085
why don't you buy more? We did lewis road next to the, uh, seventh grade

866
01:04:15,365 --> 01:04:19,325
center, bought a lot of property there. Uh, there's a, an old house from 1753

867
01:04:20,065 --> 01:04:23,915
at the town . And when we did it, there were people in the room behind me here that

868
01:04:24,925 --> 01:04:28,545
complained. So it's just how things happened. Um,

869
01:04:29,545 --> 01:04:32,335
my only thought with having a referendum

870
01:04:33,585 --> 01:04:37,415
is you box yourself in five

871
01:04:37,705 --> 01:04:41,425
of you can do anything you want, just create something. You don't need a referendum.

872
01:04:42,005 --> 01:04:45,425
that's why you're elected. 'cause if you, you rely on the public, sometimes

873
01:04:46,445 --> 01:04:49,815
you're not gonna make 'em happy. So, um, referendums

874
01:04:50,505 --> 01:04:54,465
box yourself, you box yourself in and you just did. Um, I respect

875
01:04:54,785 --> 01:04:58,765
what you do and here to support you. Um, but you're

876
01:04:59,185 --> 01:05:03,185
boxed in now. Um, and one last thing you should notice,

877
01:05:03,485 --> 01:05:06,235
but we still have the lowest, um, wastewater,

878
01:05:07,935 --> 01:05:11,835
um, fee. One of lowest of any community around

879
01:05:12,075 --> 01:05:15,395
here. So you were asking about that back there.

880
01:05:16,255 --> 01:05:18,165
that's all I have. Thank you very much. Thank you.

881
01:05:29,345 --> 01:05:32,205
is there anyone else would like to make anyone else like to make public comment?

882
01:05:34,335 --> 01:05:35,345
alright, we'll move on.

883
01:05:41,205 --> 01:05:45,185
uh, tonight, we had an executive session just prior to this

884
01:05:45,425 --> 01:05:49,105
meeting, and we discussed, uh, legal negotiations,

885
01:05:50,715 --> 01:05:54,145
prior matters, tax selection and pending litigation matters.

886
01:05:55,685 --> 01:05:59,385
we have a bill list in our packet, uh, for august period. August 1st

887
01:06:00,105 --> 01:06:02,665
through august 30th. I'll entertain a motion on that.

888
01:06:07,385 --> 01:06:09,465
I make a motion to approve the august 1st through august 31st, 2025

889
01:06:11,855 --> 01:06:13,145
bill list in the amount of $1,367,549

890
01:06:16,285 --> 01:06:19,105
and 40 cents. I second.

891
01:06:20,305 --> 01:06:24,125
I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. A aye. Any,

892
01:06:25,245 --> 01:06:28,485
any opposed? Thank you. Alright. Uh,

893
01:06:29,685 --> 01:06:32,045
we also had, uh, minutes from our august,

894
01:06:34,125 --> 01:06:37,865
uh, oh, excuse me, minutes from our august 18th meeting in our packet.

895
01:06:38,525 --> 01:06:42,455
and, uh, if there are no corrections, I'll entertain a motion to approve those. I'll

896
01:06:42,745 --> 01:06:46,705
make a motion to approve the august 18th, 2025 meeting. Supervisor's, regular meeting

897
01:06:47,185 --> 01:06:51,005
minutes. I'll second. I have a motion to second. All

898
01:06:51,225 --> 01:06:55,065
those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Thank you.

899
01:07:00,285 --> 01:07:04,125
we have no public hearings tonight. Uh, first item on

900
01:07:04,885 --> 01:07:07,885
all business is consider adopting resolution 2025

901
01:07:09,015 --> 01:07:12,805
dash 28 granting preliminary land development approval for

902
01:07:13,025 --> 01:07:16,465
the quest redevelopment at, uh, 1201 south collegeville

903
01:07:17,145 --> 01:07:19,215
road. Okay.

904
01:07:30,335 --> 01:07:34,225
good evening everyone. Allison zaro on behalf of ht 1201 collegeville,

905
01:07:34,945 --> 01:07:38,935
llc. Um, this tonight I'm prepared. I got the, the laser pointer

906
01:07:39,425 --> 01:07:43,425
before I started waving my hands around. Um, I know that the board is very familiar

907
01:07:43,975 --> 01:07:47,415
with the site. This is our third time here about the preliminary plan.

908
01:07:48,125 --> 01:07:51,535
um, and we received some good comments from you at the last meeting, primarily

909
01:07:52,145 --> 01:07:56,145
focused on the residential portion of this project. Um, we've talked about the

910
01:07:56,345 --> 01:08:00,225
commercial portion, um, on numerous occasions, so I'm not going to go over that again. But

911
01:08:00,425 --> 01:08:04,265
I do want to highlight some things that we, we changed as a result of your

912
01:08:04,625 --> 01:08:08,585
comments from the last two meetings. Um, on the residential portion of the

913
01:08:08,705 --> 01:08:11,405
site, which is the upper portion of this plan, um,

914
01:08:13,055 --> 01:08:16,385
primarily we were focused on, if you remember the, um,

915
01:08:17,145 --> 01:08:20,685
the area that was is next to the stone house that, uh, ms. Troutman

916
01:08:21,205 --> 01:08:25,145
was just talking about. Um, we are retaining that, uh, building on

917
01:08:25,365 --> 01:08:29,195
the property. And there was concern about eight stacked townhouse

918
01:08:29,805 --> 01:08:33,705
dwelling units that were in close proximity to that building on

919
01:08:33,925 --> 01:08:37,885
the prior versions of the plan that we showed you. Um, the, the version you're seeing

920
01:08:38,005 --> 01:08:41,865
on the screen tonight removes those, um, eight units in proximity to

921
01:08:42,085 --> 01:08:46,025
the house. It relocates six of those units elsewhere within the

922
01:08:46,245 --> 01:08:50,075
road network. Oops, I think I just said the wrong thing. No, that was me. Oh, that was you. Okay.

923
01:08:51,265 --> 01:08:55,265
within the, um, the, the road network that we already have, um,

924
01:08:55,625 --> 01:08:58,965
and it would drops the total dwelling unit count by two units.

925
01:08:59,825 --> 01:09:03,665
we also relocated the top lot. If you remember, it was over here on

926
01:09:03,885 --> 01:09:07,505
the right side of the plan. We've now relocated that to, um, be

927
01:09:07,945 --> 01:09:11,515
in proximity with the stone house. We feel that that could be a nice amenity

928
01:09:12,005 --> 01:09:16,005
space overall and put it all together. Um, we've also added a little

929
01:09:16,195 --> 01:09:19,885
outdoor area, um, which you'll see in the renderings that we have with us tonight,

930
01:09:20,625 --> 01:09:24,245
um, to create an amenity for the community. The other

931
01:09:24,765 --> 01:09:28,725
positive that came out of relocating and reconfiguring this is that

932
01:09:29,045 --> 01:09:33,005
the road connection between the commercial and residential portions had a

933
01:09:33,125 --> 01:09:36,985
little bit of a funky curve to it originally. We were able to straighten that out on

934
01:09:37,205 --> 01:09:41,185
this plan, um, and make for a better movement between the two, uh,

935
01:09:41,405 --> 01:09:45,325
portions of the site. If you recall, there is a stream that runs through the site. And so that's sort of

936
01:09:45,465 --> 01:09:49,045
our natural break in the property. And then finally, because

937
01:09:49,585 --> 01:09:53,405
we were able to move these, um, various aspects of the plan

938
01:09:53,645 --> 01:09:57,145
around, we were able to eliminate retaining walls both in height and

939
01:09:57,745 --> 01:10:01,075
and length, uh, within proximate proximate proximity,

940
01:10:01,845 --> 01:10:05,785
I should say, to this a an existing sewer easement on the property. So

941
01:10:06,085 --> 01:10:10,005
this all resulted in what we think is a positive improvement for this

942
01:10:10,315 --> 01:10:14,245
plan. The other thing I wanted to mention, and I know it was brought up in

943
01:10:14,405 --> 01:10:18,245
the comments earlier, is last time we were here, mr. Yeager had raised a concern

944
01:10:18,485 --> 01:10:22,445
about school buses coming onto the site. We have coordinated with the director of

945
01:10:22,565 --> 01:10:26,315
transportation for spring ford, um, since we were last here.

946
01:10:27,145 --> 01:10:30,965
and she said that the school district would be willing to come into this property,

947
01:10:31,445 --> 01:10:35,285
provided that the hoa signs, a hold harmless agreement, which is how it's

948
01:10:35,525 --> 01:10:39,445
been handled in river crest and some of the other developments in the area. So that is something that we can

949
01:10:39,605 --> 01:10:43,425
promulgate upfront as part of this community because we know about it going in.

950
01:10:43,905 --> 01:10:47,865
so we're willing to do that if for some reason that changes in the future. Um,

951
01:10:48,085 --> 01:10:51,985
we do believe we have an appropriate area here on the site. Um, if

952
01:10:52,205 --> 01:10:56,035
you recall the separate entrance to, um, the residential property also

953
01:10:56,345 --> 01:11:00,075
has, uh, that parking lot right there that would serve as over foot parking, community

954
01:11:00,685 --> 01:11:04,645
space, et cetera, next to the stone house. And so we do believe there's an appropriate

955
01:11:05,325 --> 01:11:09,165
location, um, for both the, uh, children and their parents

956
01:11:09,505 --> 01:11:13,365
to be waiting for the bus if that should be needed. So, um, so those are the

957
01:11:13,525 --> 01:11:17,245
main, uh, changes that we need to the plan. Um, we do have updated

958
01:11:17,685 --> 01:11:21,205
renderings. You've seen the commercial renderings before they're in this presentation.

959
01:11:22,185 --> 01:11:26,145
so, and herb is not with us tonight, so I will not run through them specifically unless

960
01:11:26,565 --> 01:11:30,505
you have questions. But at the end, we do have a couple of renderings of,

961
01:11:31,355 --> 01:11:35,325
this is the new, um, view from blackrock at the stone house.

962
01:11:35,745 --> 01:11:39,665
so you can see what it looks like with the elimination of those units. Um,

963
01:11:39,905 --> 01:11:43,725
and then I think we have a second slide. Yes. That showed to you, um, the expanded

964
01:11:44,075 --> 01:11:46,765
amenity area and top lot in proximity to the stone house

965
01:11:49,465 --> 01:11:53,245
to happen to answer any questions. I do have dave lance groner, um, and our civil

966
01:11:53,765 --> 01:11:57,425
engineer dennis kirk here with me tonight. Do you think you can make that top

967
01:11:58,115 --> 01:12:01,825
wall a little bit higher? The top wall wall? Um,

968
01:12:02,985 --> 01:12:05,265
is there a gray change there already, dennis? Or,

969
01:12:08,075 --> 01:12:11,965
okay. Yep. We can raise it. Yeah, I, I, it's a good

970
01:12:12,085 --> 01:12:16,085
point. You wanna make sure that there's like either a protected barrier or something. Yeah. But no, I think this

971
01:12:16,245 --> 01:12:20,225
is great. I thank you for taking our comments and just consideration. We

972
01:12:20,445 --> 01:12:24,385
would appreciate it. Um, also, I don't wanna see the sml farmhouse. Do

973
01:12:24,605 --> 01:12:28,465
you think it'd be good prevent anything like that from happening? Um,

974
01:12:28,825 --> 01:12:32,065
the loss of the farmhouse, we are proposing to retain it on the plan. Um,

975
01:12:32,865 --> 01:12:36,445
and you know, I think the ultimate use is a little

976
01:12:36,895 --> 01:12:40,885
fluid still at this point. Um, I understand people have different opinions about what it

977
01:12:41,005 --> 01:12:44,915
should be, but I think our, our thought here is that it will serve as some

978
01:12:45,205 --> 01:12:48,525
sort of community space with that ta log right next door as well as the parking.

979
01:12:49,355 --> 01:12:53,185
yeah. So would you dedicate money to

980
01:12:53,405 --> 01:12:57,265
rehabbing? You'd have to, right? Yes. I mean, that was the intent from the beginning, um,

981
01:12:57,675 --> 01:13:01,485
dave, correct? Yeah. And that is still the intent. Yes, absolutely.

982
01:13:01,685 --> 01:13:03,665
we, we know it needs some work. So

983
01:13:05,775 --> 01:13:09,085
thank you for working with us on that. And, um, did you did the

984
01:13:10,045 --> 01:13:13,915
question, do we have any answers on that? Well, we did look

985
01:13:14,265 --> 01:13:18,045
at, um, other stacked town home communities in the area. We talked about it originally

986
01:13:18,405 --> 01:13:22,405
in the context of, um, my client having done development work in the city. But he has talked to

987
01:13:22,685 --> 01:13:26,405
other developers in the suburbs and none of them have a community dumpster,

988
01:13:27,285 --> 01:13:31,245
although they're stacked towns still would operate the same way as a traditional

989
01:13:31,805 --> 01:13:35,685
townhouse community in the sense that you're required to store. And that would

990
01:13:35,845 --> 01:13:39,605
be part of the hoa docks, your particular, um, trash containers,

991
01:13:40,275 --> 01:13:44,125
recycling containers within your house, within the garage, pull them out

992
01:13:44,465 --> 01:13:47,955
on, you know, collection day, take them back in there, wouldn't be sort of scattered,

993
01:13:48,945 --> 01:13:52,785
um, trash containers all over the community. And certainly we can either do

994
01:13:53,005 --> 01:13:56,845
that in, you know, one round, two rounds, whatever the township thinks

995
01:13:57,125 --> 01:14:00,945
is best from that perspective. And ultimately there would be, um,

996
01:14:01,505 --> 01:14:04,865
the hoa, the board would be responsible for,

997
01:14:05,785 --> 01:14:09,765
uh, making sure that there's one collector coming into the community, not this sort

998
01:14:09,965 --> 01:14:13,065
of willy nilly, hey, I picked my own, um,

999
01:14:14,005 --> 01:14:16,645
provider. Would we be responsible for this?

1000
01:14:18,065 --> 01:14:21,725
no, that would be retained by the hoa board. Yes. The h oa board. The oa board,

1001
01:14:23,745 --> 01:14:27,205
yes. We would not, we would not, we wouldn't wish that on you. .

1002
01:14:28,485 --> 01:14:32,225
I have one more question. So right now, I know the township uses that parking lot for

1003
01:14:32,865 --> 01:14:36,745
our big events. Is there some way we, we had to use like a portion of the

1004
01:14:36,965 --> 01:14:40,925
parking lot for any future communities or anything like that?

1005
01:14:41,665 --> 01:14:45,485
so, um, on the date, I know there's an event coming up. I, I think it's,

1006
01:14:46,145 --> 01:14:49,845
is it this month? I think it's this month. It's this month. So we've agreed

1007
01:14:50,205 --> 01:14:54,205
for that. Um, as far as in the future, it's gonna be dependent on the

1008
01:14:54,605 --> 01:14:58,325
retailers and really what their lease says. Um, if there is flexibility,

1009
01:14:58,885 --> 01:15:02,845
we'll obviously work with the township, but I can't guarantee it. 'cause some retailers want to protect

1010
01:15:03,085 --> 01:15:06,845
their parking so that they cannot people there and shop for the store.

1011
01:15:07,425 --> 01:15:11,195
so each retailer gets a certain number of spaces? Some, yes. Typically.

1012
01:15:11,985 --> 01:15:15,805
are there any extra spaces that are just around that we could, it's again,

1013
01:15:16,125 --> 01:15:19,845
it's just a function of who's gonna be there and who we, you know, is gonna be the end user

1014
01:15:20,225 --> 01:15:24,045
and the space. Everyone has different requirements from a zoning standpoint. They are a little over

1015
01:15:24,285 --> 01:15:28,085
parked. We're definitely over parked. I I mean, I can tell you that we're definitely

1016
01:15:28,325 --> 01:15:31,995
over parked. So if we, again, if we can, we will absolutely help

1017
01:15:33,025 --> 01:15:34,035
for sure. Thank you. Sure.

1018
01:15:43,255 --> 01:15:47,185
there's no other questions. I'll make a

1019
01:15:47,265 --> 01:15:51,185
motion without resolution. 2025 dash 28 granting preliminary land

1020
01:15:51,465 --> 01:15:55,465
development approval for quest redevelopment. 12 0 1 south collegeville

1021
01:15:56,065 --> 01:15:59,745
road. I second. Alright, I have a motion and a second

1022
01:16:00,445 --> 01:16:03,895
to adopt resolution 2025 dash 28 granting preliminary

1023
01:16:04,585 --> 01:16:08,145
land development approval for quest three development 1201 south coto road.

1024
01:16:08,805 --> 01:16:11,625
all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed?

1025
01:16:12,875 --> 01:16:15,365
thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thanks.

1026
01:16:21,445 --> 01:16:25,225
number six was, uh, we were gonna consider enacting ordinance

1027
01:16:25,925 --> 01:16:29,445
six 15 on e-bikes, but we missed an

1028
01:16:29,985 --> 01:16:32,855
advertising deadline. So we're going to table that item

1029
01:16:33,995 --> 01:16:37,865
until, uh, next month. We don't need a motion

1030
01:16:38,045 --> 01:16:41,055
for that, do we? Okay. Alright.

1031
01:16:42,285 --> 01:16:46,205
and now under new business, uh, item number seven, discussion of bridge on

1032
01:16:46,425 --> 01:16:50,105
this is a informational presentation, uh, for potential

1033
01:16:50,665 --> 01:16:53,825
development of 400 r colebrook. Good evening.

1034
01:16:55,325 --> 01:16:59,245
I'm kristen pcio with hamburg rubin mall and maxwell lupin. Uh,

1035
01:16:59,605 --> 01:17:03,385
I'm here tonight, uh, with my team that is sitting here in the two

1036
01:17:03,695 --> 01:17:07,265
rows, uh, to the right over there

1037
01:17:07,805 --> 01:17:11,805
we have, uh, the owners of the property are here, at least part of them. Uh, from

1038
01:17:12,085 --> 01:17:15,915
green barn investment group. The two gentlemen over there, it is chris richter

1039
01:17:16,745 --> 01:17:20,715
and matt lavell. The other owner is david warner real estate. He's

1040
01:17:21,005 --> 01:17:24,845
not present this evening. Uh, will jagger is here from buller engineering sitting

1041
01:17:25,145 --> 01:17:28,985
on the yen. Uh, matt hammond from traffic planning and design is

1042
01:17:29,205 --> 01:17:33,125
here. And eric hetzel from eh, creative services,

1043
01:17:33,865 --> 01:17:37,815
who did some financial analysis is here as well. Um, we're

1044
01:17:38,165 --> 01:17:42,065
here to talk about, uh, the, the green, the, uh,

1045
01:17:42,285 --> 01:17:46,245
pfizer dow property, as we all call it. Uh, this property was acquired

1046
01:17:46,465 --> 01:17:50,405
by my clients two years ago. Uh, a year ago. They met with staff

1047
01:17:50,745 --> 01:17:54,045
to talk about the trouble that they were having with this property and its decline

1048
01:17:55,185 --> 01:17:58,855
in may of this year. We met with staff to talk further about

1049
01:17:59,205 --> 01:18:02,905
the vacancy and the downward spiral spiral of the office, uh,

1050
01:18:03,705 --> 01:18:07,505
use on the property. We discussed some proposals on our end

1051
01:18:07,725 --> 01:18:11,645
and staff said, come in with the sketch, discuss it, uh, with the board. And

1052
01:18:11,845 --> 01:18:15,785
that is why we are here. So, um, we have some proposals to

1053
01:18:16,005 --> 01:18:19,485
discuss with you or a proposal to revitalize the property.

1054
01:18:20,065 --> 01:18:23,445
um, it is, uh, a suffering piece of property, 335

1055
01:18:24,495 --> 01:18:28,465
acres. It is terribly underperforming. And, uh, we

1056
01:18:28,685 --> 01:18:32,645
have a proposal to fix that. And I'd like to suggest that

1057
01:18:32,885 --> 01:18:36,825
there are three benefits, uh, that we will share with you. And in

1058
01:18:37,045 --> 01:18:40,765
10 minutes, I can go through our slide projection, go through that with you,

1059
01:18:41,185 --> 01:18:44,625
and then we are here to answer questions. We do have slides

1060
01:18:45,275 --> 01:18:49,245
that jeff can click through, but I have hard copies here in case

1061
01:18:49,405 --> 01:18:53,305
you want to go back and look at things. I know you have screens in front of you, but

1062
01:18:53,525 --> 01:18:57,525
I like hard copies and thought you might like them too. So just gimme a second. They're all

1063
01:18:57,645 --> 01:18:57,825
hands up.

1064
01:19:02,575 --> 01:19:05,965
there should be one for everybody, including the police. 'cause I know you're interested.

1065
01:19:26,065 --> 01:19:28,405
is there enough, jeff? Uh, you one short?

1066
01:19:30,645 --> 01:19:32,485
I have. Oh, this is different,

1067
01:19:37,195 --> 01:19:37,485
your honor.

1068
01:19:43,905 --> 01:19:47,565
you want hear me? I can hear. Oh, we're fine. We have plenty. Thank you.

1069
01:19:48,705 --> 01:19:51,925
um, so this is just the cover page. That's everybody who's here. So you have our names.

1070
01:19:52,825 --> 01:19:56,565
uh, next slide please, jeff. Uh, so this is the property

1071
01:19:57,085 --> 01:20:00,595
identified here. I think you're all, uh, familiar with it. Arcola road

1072
01:20:01,185 --> 01:20:04,805
is down here on the bottom. We have route 29 here to the top.

1073
01:20:05,475 --> 01:20:09,325
this is, uh, 4 22. This is route 29. We call

1074
01:20:09,525 --> 01:20:13,525
this the quadrant, uh, in reference to other, uh, exhibits

1075
01:20:14,085 --> 01:20:16,005
that I will share with you. Next slide please.

1076
01:20:19,425 --> 01:20:23,345
so, uh, the office, uh,

1077
01:20:23,585 --> 01:20:27,475
square footage consists of 1.9 million square feet.

1078
01:20:28,475 --> 01:20:32,305
currently, dow is occupying 800 square

1079
01:20:32,725 --> 01:20:36,665
feet on your copies. You should see those in color. And for

1080
01:20:36,885 --> 01:20:40,865
those people watching, it's, this area right here is occupied by

1081
01:20:41,385 --> 01:20:45,205
dow. They are, uh, they have a 10 year lease. So they

1082
01:20:45,405 --> 01:20:49,065
are staying and they occupy 800,000. Pfizer

1083
01:20:49,945 --> 01:20:53,715
is occupying 675,000 square feet. They

1084
01:20:54,005 --> 01:20:57,965
are here, we're not sure how long they'll be there. And keller williams

1085
01:20:58,365 --> 01:21:02,045
occupies these two little buildings right here on the property.

1086
01:21:02,705 --> 01:21:05,605
the rest of the property is vacant. Next slide please.

1087
01:21:07,385 --> 01:21:11,385
so, uh, there's been a major reduction in the assessed value of

1088
01:21:11,605 --> 01:21:15,605
this property. Uh, you had a lot of conversations tonight about tax revenue

1089
01:21:16,625 --> 01:21:20,605
and if this, the court has, uh, approved

1090
01:21:21,025 --> 01:21:24,845
the tax reductions since we were here in front of the planning commission

1091
01:21:25,365 --> 01:21:29,325
a couple of weeks ago. And tonight, you can see from this exhibit

1092
01:21:30,155 --> 01:21:33,645
there's three columns. Here we have the current occupancy, the previous

1093
01:21:34,245 --> 01:21:37,855
assessed value for the property. And this is the assessed value, not the market value.

1094
01:21:38,595 --> 01:21:42,345
it's about $144 million that had

1095
01:21:42,645 --> 01:21:44,795
a market value of about 468 million.

1096
01:21:47,225 --> 01:21:51,025
uh, the current reduced, uh, assessed value has

1097
01:21:51,245 --> 01:21:55,125
dropped to 45 million. So we've lost, uh, a significant

1098
01:21:55,855 --> 01:21:59,565
about $101 million in assessed value on this property.

1099
01:22:00,065 --> 01:22:03,875
and that's based on the current occupancy of employees of 550.

1100
01:22:05,425 --> 01:22:09,225
the last column shows that there's a current, this current trend is

1101
01:22:09,485 --> 01:22:13,045
a reduction in occupants on the property. If that continues and drops to 250

1102
01:22:14,125 --> 01:22:18,025
employees, there's a further reduction, not in the property values, but

1103
01:22:18,245 --> 01:22:21,625
in the tax revenue. All the columns are there. So

1104
01:22:22,265 --> 01:22:25,765
at the bottom of this exhibit, you'll see we've done the tax revenue

1105
01:22:26,385 --> 01:22:30,345
for the township and the these column, these, um, rows here in

1106
01:22:30,565 --> 01:22:34,405
each of the columns. We've done the revenue for the school district here because we

1107
01:22:34,605 --> 01:22:38,525
think your residents care about both. And in the bottom, we have the total

1108
01:22:39,345 --> 01:22:43,285
tax revenue for each of the taxing districts. We did not do the counting,

1109
01:22:43,435 --> 01:22:47,385
just the township and the school district. So prior to the, to

1110
01:22:47,665 --> 01:22:51,365
the reduction, we had almost $6 million in tax revenue

1111
01:22:51,785 --> 01:22:55,145
to the township and the school district. Now it is about $2 million.

1112
01:22:56,745 --> 01:23:00,705
so, um, it is not only a problem for the property owners, um, we

1113
01:23:00,925 --> 01:23:04,505
think it's a significant issue for the taxing authority. So

1114
01:23:05,385 --> 01:23:08,725
we have a proposal to try to fix that. Next slide, please.

1115
01:23:10,465 --> 01:23:14,445
so in order to revitalize this office campus, and we

1116
01:23:14,605 --> 01:23:18,445
have a unique situation because dow is staying, those office

1117
01:23:19,085 --> 01:23:22,735
structures are in the middle of this property, and we'd like to revitalize

1118
01:23:23,745 --> 01:23:27,125
the use of the office, which is in the middle of the property.

1119
01:23:27,905 --> 01:23:31,195
and to do that, we are suggesting a townhouse development

1120
01:23:32,135 --> 01:23:35,745
along the right side of the property. It's on the side where the per

1121
01:23:36,295 --> 01:23:40,045
trail is located. The trail does traverse our property via an easement.

1122
01:23:41,105 --> 01:23:44,965
and, uh, we have proposed, uh, a

1123
01:23:45,325 --> 01:23:48,715
hospital or gmp use here along arcola road

1124
01:23:49,635 --> 01:23:53,285
that is about 290,000 square feet with surface

1125
01:23:53,985 --> 01:23:57,335
and a parking garage. The townhouses consist of 349.

1126
01:23:59,425 --> 01:24:02,825
and then we propose four pad sites down here, uh,

1127
01:24:03,445 --> 01:24:07,405
possibly a convenience store and three qsrs. They're quick service

1128
01:24:08,165 --> 01:24:11,945
restaurants. So the idea is to get people on this campus to

1129
01:24:12,365 --> 01:24:16,245
entice office users to come back to this property. We don't believe we

1130
01:24:16,405 --> 01:24:19,725
would have big hitters that would take a significant amount of square footage.

1131
01:24:20,585 --> 01:24:24,165
we think that we would have large, you know, smaller chunks of square footage to be

1132
01:24:25,005 --> 01:24:28,725
occupied by office users. Those people on the property would also

1133
01:24:29,285 --> 01:24:33,145
entice, you know, a hospital use on the property, which then would revitalize the

1134
01:24:33,365 --> 01:24:36,655
office use again for their, um, office needs.

1135
01:24:37,465 --> 01:24:41,405
and then the retail and or service restaurant use would

1136
01:24:41,755 --> 01:24:45,685
also serve these people. Next slide

1137
01:24:45,965 --> 01:24:49,885
please. So the next page in your packet and on the

1138
01:24:50,085 --> 01:24:53,605
screen, we've done analysis of what this development would

1139
01:24:54,205 --> 01:24:57,925
generate from a tax perspective. So just this development that

1140
01:24:58,285 --> 01:25:02,145
I just described. We have the residential in the first column, the

1141
01:25:02,365 --> 01:25:06,365
life science or hospital facility in this section here, and then the

1142
01:25:06,625 --> 01:25:10,505
retail or qsr in this section here. And grand total on

1143
01:25:10,725 --> 01:25:14,405
the end. We've done this for township revenue across the board.

1144
01:25:14,975 --> 01:25:18,845
we've taken into account the expenditures, uh, necessary for each of

1145
01:25:19,045 --> 01:25:22,685
those uses. Uh, school district along here, just like the

1146
01:25:23,085 --> 01:25:26,945
previous analysis, grand totals along the bottom. So in

1147
01:25:27,165 --> 01:25:31,045
total tax revenue for both the township and the school district, if all of

1148
01:25:31,205 --> 01:25:35,095
what I propose is constructed would be, uh, $3.15 million

1149
01:25:37,585 --> 01:25:41,565
in additional tax revenue. Next slide please.

1150
01:25:46,945 --> 01:25:50,885
so if we can just pause for a moment. If we have that additional revenue of 3.15 million

1151
01:25:53,385 --> 01:25:57,205
and we revitalized the office, we could get this property

1152
01:25:57,395 --> 01:26:00,885
back in total to a tax revenue for the school

1153
01:26:01,405 --> 01:26:03,635
district and the township to $9.15 million

1154
01:26:05,745 --> 01:26:08,925
of taxes for the both the township and the school district combined.

1155
01:26:10,905 --> 01:26:14,905
so the benefits, number one, that, that tax revenue, that's

1156
01:26:15,325 --> 01:26:19,105
the big one. Number two, we have, um, if we got

1157
01:26:19,355 --> 01:26:23,235
into land development, we would discuss some pedestrian connectivity that

1158
01:26:23,545 --> 01:26:27,245
we could continue through this property. Uh, on this plan

1159
01:26:27,585 --> 01:26:31,445
in purple is the existing public trail system. We have

1160
01:26:31,605 --> 01:26:34,885
this through campus drive across our cola. This is in purple.

1161
01:26:35,625 --> 01:26:39,545
we have the per trail, which traverses part of our property up

1162
01:26:39,965 --> 01:26:43,655
in this area in yellow, there is a significant trail

1163
01:26:44,005 --> 01:26:47,925
system through the campus of my client's property. There is

1164
01:26:48,125 --> 01:26:52,085
an internal road system, but also a trail system that is highlighted in yellow.

1165
01:26:52,955 --> 01:26:56,745
what you see in brown is what we could do. And as far as future

1166
01:26:57,165 --> 01:27:00,905
connectivity through that land development process, we could add

1167
01:27:01,455 --> 01:27:05,405
additional trail along our frontage, along our cola. We could

1168
01:27:05,525 --> 01:27:09,485
bring it around down, I mean, I'm sorry, on route 29. Then bring it

1169
01:27:09,605 --> 01:27:13,245
around on our cola, add some connections interior to the campus

1170
01:27:14,035 --> 01:27:17,945
down here. We have a gap back in this area. I'm

1171
01:27:18,165 --> 01:27:21,805
sorry, this area here where our existing trail doesn't quite

1172
01:27:22,275 --> 01:27:25,805
meet, uh, the perch trail. We could make that connection

1173
01:27:26,745 --> 01:27:30,545
and maybe another connection down on this lower end. Um, so

1174
01:27:31,025 --> 01:27:34,435
add to the trail system. We do have your, uh, interactive

1175
01:27:35,215 --> 01:27:39,085
trail map and we think that the, the pedestrian connectivity,

1176
01:27:40,185 --> 01:27:43,945
uh, would be another huge benefit for the township. And

1177
01:27:44,265 --> 01:27:48,065
lastly, as far as the third benefit, we would do our share of

1178
01:27:48,285 --> 01:27:52,215
improvements along route 29. Obviously we have a lot of frontage on route

1179
01:27:52,565 --> 01:27:56,405
29, and we understand there are other improvements being done

1180
01:27:56,815 --> 01:28:00,285
north of us on route 29. And there's a gap, uh, between

1181
01:28:00,865 --> 01:28:04,725
us and those improvements. We would obviously have an

1182
01:28:04,885 --> 01:28:08,455
impact on the all of route 29 and we could do our share,

1183
01:28:09,145 --> 01:28:12,685
uh, to complete that. And, um, add to those improvements

1184
01:28:13,225 --> 01:28:16,965
on the route 29, all of which we would obviously discuss, uh, during

1185
01:28:17,285 --> 01:28:20,185
the land development process. So

1186
01:28:21,345 --> 01:28:25,325
we know that you have, um, development fatigue. So I look

1187
01:28:25,605 --> 01:28:29,125
through your, uh, planning documents at the county and the township

1188
01:28:29,935 --> 01:28:33,885
level to see why from a planning perspective, does this make

1189
01:28:34,125 --> 01:28:37,925
sense? Next slide please. So starting with the monko 2040

1190
01:28:38,685 --> 01:28:41,875
vision, that's the montgomery county planning commission comprehensive plan.

1191
01:28:42,875 --> 01:28:46,765
next slide please. They've identified this area, what I call the quadrant,

1192
01:28:47,325 --> 01:28:51,105
which includes our property as a, uh,

1193
01:28:52,085 --> 01:28:55,525
regional retail. I wanna get it right,

1194
01:28:59,565 --> 01:29:03,565
regional mixed use center. I've circled that on the

1195
01:29:03,685 --> 01:29:07,325
plan. Next slide please. And they've identified and defined

1196
01:29:07,965 --> 01:29:11,765
a regional mixed use center as an intensely developed suburban

1197
01:29:12,155 --> 01:29:15,925
core with significant retail, lots of traffic, lots of jobs

1198
01:29:16,395 --> 01:29:20,235
overall, a lot of activity. It includes specifically high

1199
01:29:20,525 --> 01:29:22,765
density, multifamily, and town homes.

1200
01:29:25,155 --> 01:29:29,125
next slide please. Then I went to your comprehensive plan, which was just

1201
01:29:29,365 --> 01:29:33,325
adopted last year, and on page 66 of your

1202
01:29:33,555 --> 01:29:37,325
plan under the future land use plan, it talks about

1203
01:29:38,095 --> 01:29:41,815
given the ever shifting real estate development market and township needs,

1204
01:29:42,785 --> 01:29:46,685
the township needs to be cognizant of the trends and the underused ie

1205
01:29:47,005 --> 01:29:50,885
vacant office buildings, vacant industrial properties within its boundary

1206
01:29:51,065 --> 01:29:54,895
and the effect on the financial viability to adequately serve

1207
01:29:55,345 --> 01:29:58,885
the remaining township at large. So unlike other comprehensive

1208
01:29:59,575 --> 01:30:03,565
plans that have dozens of goals and objectives with respect to

1209
01:30:03,765 --> 01:30:06,625
the future land use plan, this comprehensive update

1210
01:30:07,915 --> 01:30:11,755
plan pairs that down to one guiding principle for the life of this plan.

1211
01:30:12,345 --> 01:30:15,995
and in bold, they put preserve those under undeveloped

1212
01:30:16,685 --> 01:30:20,015
areas and channel redevelopment into those areas

1213
01:30:20,915 --> 01:30:23,025
that the in infrastructure exists.

1214
01:30:24,995 --> 01:30:28,725
next slide, please. So clearly the infrastructure is here

1215
01:30:29,025 --> 01:30:32,865
on this property. Um, we have stormwater management, we

1216
01:30:33,085 --> 01:30:36,885
have road systems, we have, um, water, we have

1217
01:30:37,135 --> 01:30:41,085
sewer, we have intersections. And specifically on the next

1218
01:30:41,395 --> 01:30:45,095
page, they identify this route 29 interchange, campus drive.

1219
01:30:45,945 --> 01:30:49,765
um, identifying it is giving its proximity to the existing and long

1220
01:30:50,045 --> 01:30:52,765
term office campus, campus environments,

1221
01:30:54,065 --> 01:30:57,885
uh, proximity to the interchange of route 4 22, a

1222
01:30:58,165 --> 01:31:02,025
thriving commercial shopping area. Redevelopment of this area is

1223
01:31:02,245 --> 01:31:05,925
paramount to the future of the township. With the individual office market

1224
01:31:06,325 --> 01:31:10,205
floundering at this time, the township cannot wait for the individual office users

1225
01:31:10,865 --> 01:31:14,595
to return. Zoning should be reviewed to ensure flexibility with

1226
01:31:14,925 --> 01:31:18,885
a broad range of permitted uses. So we think

1227
01:31:19,005 --> 01:31:22,405
we've done our homework. We think that we've come up with something that will help revitalize

1228
01:31:23,075 --> 01:31:26,805
this property to create tax revenue for the township, add the connectivity

1229
01:31:27,345 --> 01:31:31,245
that's missing in pieces on this property, and do our part,

1230
01:31:31,985 --> 01:31:35,845
uh, along route 29. And we think that we followed your planning guidelines

1231
01:31:36,555 --> 01:31:40,365
both from the county and the township. And we'd like to work with your staff

1232
01:31:40,915 --> 01:31:44,345
with your permission to achieve some legislative, um,

1233
01:31:45,185 --> 01:31:48,605
result that could achieve this plan and go through

1234
01:31:49,505 --> 01:31:51,285
the details during the land development process.

1235
01:31:55,065 --> 01:31:58,125
can you talk a little bit more about the hospital there in the top left corner?

1236
01:31:59,625 --> 01:32:03,205
I'm going to ask for my clients to come up and talk about the details of those users.

1237
01:32:03,635 --> 01:32:06,485
this is, this is chris richter and matt labelle.

1238
01:32:09,655 --> 01:32:13,485
good evening. And, and, and thanks for hearing our, uh, presentation tonight. Uh,

1239
01:32:13,725 --> 01:32:17,655
we do not have a, a formal application. Our process

1240
01:32:18,565 --> 01:32:22,545
of, of the end result being with you tonight is we were approached by,

1241
01:32:22,965 --> 01:32:26,165
uh, a regional, uh, call it a national bank, uh,

1242
01:32:27,365 --> 01:32:31,345
to, uh, sign a location at the intersection. And we've had a full leasing team

1243
01:32:31,505 --> 01:32:35,425
in place, uh, at the campus right now to try to solicit additional office

1244
01:32:35,915 --> 01:32:39,065
users. And we were approached by, uh, one of the hospital groups.

1245
01:32:40,005 --> 01:32:43,945
uh, we've done nothing to progress those deals, uh, because

1246
01:32:44,435 --> 01:32:48,265
we're so far off with, with zoning right now and timing and understanding

1247
01:32:48,765 --> 01:32:52,475
the viability of, of we're building right now. So this is a process we're

1248
01:32:52,825 --> 01:32:56,745
trying to get comfortable that there is a process, um, for us

1249
01:32:57,185 --> 01:33:01,155
al to get to the end game. Um, I do want to bring up one other point,

1250
01:33:01,755 --> 01:33:05,525
which is, you know, I enjoyed the presentation in your open space, but

1251
01:33:06,045 --> 01:33:09,765
you know, we look at all these projects as, you know, sort of a, a public private, uh,

1252
01:33:10,095 --> 01:33:13,305
partnership. And you know, we have this

1253
01:33:14,635 --> 01:33:18,035
large chunk of land that you can see between the brook trail

1254
01:33:18,805 --> 01:33:22,785
and the river. Um, that the only uses for us right now

1255
01:33:23,005 --> 01:33:26,835
is that we have a 10% building coverage ratios. The land has value

1256
01:33:27,155 --> 01:33:31,075
based on the percentages, but we would certainly work with the township on understanding whether,

1257
01:33:31,975 --> 01:33:35,555
um, that parcel is something that, um, could be,

1258
01:33:36,615 --> 01:33:40,555
you know, part of the open space program. So we're here as we, we, we look

1259
01:33:40,675 --> 01:33:44,275
at all these partners we have to, um, as, as a partner with the municipality,

1260
01:33:45,415 --> 01:33:48,515
and we would gladly, you know, sit down with your staff and start looking at those opportunities.

1261
01:33:52,435 --> 01:33:56,435
see, I'm sorry, which part are you talking about? The open space? Is it where the residential is? So

1262
01:33:56,735 --> 01:34:00,725
I let see the, so this, if you, you know, just because we, this

1263
01:34:01,015 --> 01:34:04,485
parcel, this is the ingham trail, this is the river.

1264
01:34:05,155 --> 01:34:08,845
this was actually noted on one of your exhibits

1265
01:34:09,245 --> 01:34:13,125
that you had, um, pop as as potential, uh, open

1266
01:34:13,405 --> 01:34:17,375
space acquisitions. And I

1267
01:34:17,495 --> 01:34:21,115
don't have an acreage on it, but it's, I don't know, I'm looking at

1268
01:34:21,515 --> 01:34:25,295
my engineer here to say 20, 25 acres. Probably shy of that.

1269
01:34:27,475 --> 01:34:31,375
but you know, we, we would just want to get, have the opportunity to sit down with you

1270
01:34:32,075 --> 01:34:35,875
and understand your priorities. And I think we can do a lot. This is to

1271
01:34:36,095 --> 01:34:40,045
us, this is a campus that has a ton of infrastructure that will, will

1272
01:34:40,335 --> 01:34:44,015
benefit the townhouse community and we can integrate this project into the infrastructure

1273
01:34:44,375 --> 01:34:48,335
that exists. Uh, not just the townhouses, but the retail and potentially

1274
01:34:48,815 --> 01:34:51,095
the hospital site. I it crazy. Good place.

1275
01:34:53,635 --> 01:34:57,205
that'd be great. If it was mixed use instead all town rooms, would you have 349

1276
01:34:58,415 --> 01:35:02,325
townhouses? I'm sorry, I have a hard time hearing

1277
01:35:02,565 --> 01:35:06,545
you. Uh, just like a mixed use movement instead of all those town homes, you

1278
01:35:06,765 --> 01:35:10,595
have like what, 349 all town homes? 349? Yeah,

1279
01:35:11,005 --> 01:35:14,725
I, we, I mean honestly, we would talk about

1280
01:35:16,165 --> 01:35:20,165
anything. We, we, we, we did evaluate the opportunity of knocking down some of the

1281
01:35:20,245 --> 01:35:24,105
office buildings and creating, you know, I'll call it a, an

1282
01:35:24,325 --> 01:35:28,205
apartment true mixed use. If you've been through the campus and looked

1283
01:35:28,365 --> 01:35:32,185
at the dow building, it is just not that attractive. Um, and

1284
01:35:32,445 --> 01:35:36,145
I, I think, you know, we, we looked at this 10 different ways. Um,

1285
01:35:36,985 --> 01:35:40,785
and we've done mixed use projects, you know, throughout the country. Um,

1286
01:35:41,145 --> 01:35:44,765
and we just can't get comfortable with, with integrating residential into the

1287
01:35:45,155 --> 01:35:48,565
surface parking areas and not have it, uh, being adversely

1288
01:35:49,205 --> 01:35:52,895
impacted by the existing buildings that are there. Um, sites

1289
01:35:53,275 --> 01:35:56,845
open police take a ride through there anytime you want. You can take a look at the existing architecture

1290
01:35:57,485 --> 01:36:00,445
and realize it's just not compatible with integrating residential

1291
01:36:01,685 --> 01:36:05,545
adjacent to it. But

1292
01:36:05,765 --> 01:36:08,495
even the, you know, even the numbers, we're not married to 340

1293
01:36:09,935 --> 01:36:13,785
units. We'd love the opportunity to talk about what the appropriate buffer is

1294
01:36:14,005 --> 01:36:17,545
to the trail. You know, talk about the details that, um,

1295
01:36:18,475 --> 01:36:22,105
make a difference, um, and get to, uh,

1296
01:36:22,565 --> 01:36:26,445
a townhouse count that, uh, that makes sense to, uh, you know,

1297
01:36:27,675 --> 01:36:31,485
what, what's valuable to the township and still gives us a project that's worth pursuing.

1298
01:36:32,185 --> 01:36:36,125
um, we're not married to townhouses, but we think that's the right product. I think you've got a lot of apartments

1299
01:36:36,605 --> 01:36:40,405
coming online in town. Um, we think this particular location,

1300
01:36:41,255 --> 01:36:45,165
given its its open space, um, and we think

1301
01:36:45,325 --> 01:36:48,845
the townhouse is the right market as if compared to building more apartments.

1302
01:36:52,945 --> 01:36:56,655
you mentioned a $9 million number earlier. I was following your math until

1303
01:36:57,005 --> 01:37:00,485
you threw 9 million out. Yeah, I think what she missed is that if we can fill

1304
01:37:01,185 --> 01:37:04,445
the 500,000 square foot of vacancy, we would then have that

1305
01:37:05,725 --> 01:37:09,145
vacancy back in the tax roll, adding to

1306
01:37:10,145 --> 01:37:13,915
the, the 2 million plus the three, the 2 million under the existing scenario, plus

1307
01:37:14,205 --> 01:37:17,975
the 3 million to add value, plus getting that office space

1308
01:37:18,325 --> 01:37:20,525
filled up so it gets back into a higher suspect.

1309
01:37:22,575 --> 01:37:22,925
thank you.

1310
01:37:30,365 --> 01:37:34,335
yeah, you mentioned the fatigue. I mean, I think the fatigue is that it's just, I mean,

1311
01:37:36,195 --> 01:37:38,185
it's, it's constant, um,

1312
01:37:41,235 --> 01:37:44,785
multifamily high density housing that's coming at us all the time. And

1313
01:37:45,525 --> 01:37:49,325
providence, and that's, lene just mentioned it, it's, I, I, we

1314
01:37:49,545 --> 01:37:53,455
knew this was gonna come eventually. So first off, thank you very

1315
01:37:53,745 --> 01:37:57,625
much for coming in and starting here and not starting at,

1316
01:37:58,545 --> 01:38:02,445
hey, we got, we got preliminary plans and we're trying to get down them

1317
01:38:02,565 --> 01:38:06,445
track. It's always better to start here. So I really appreciate that. It's helpful because

1318
01:38:06,875 --> 01:38:10,645
it's, now we can start wrapping our heads around where you're thinking and kind of what we want to do.

1319
01:38:11,225 --> 01:38:14,965
you're right, the high density, we said in the, in the, uh, 10 year comprehensive

1320
01:38:15,445 --> 01:38:19,445
plan, we wanted it up around the 4 22 corridor. So this is kind of where we want it.

1321
01:38:20,865 --> 01:38:24,585
we just had a big development, um, a year ago and

1322
01:38:25,155 --> 01:38:28,075
schools were a giant issue. So 350 homes becomes,

1323
01:38:29,985 --> 01:38:33,925
we already have a community that believes we've outgrown our

1324
01:38:34,125 --> 01:38:37,735
school district. So what does this cause from us from a school standpoint?

1325
01:38:38,585 --> 01:38:42,285
um, do we need to redistrict schools? I think they're already talking about redistricting schools,

1326
01:38:42,665 --> 01:38:46,265
so there's a, so there's things come into play a lot too when we start talking about the,

1327
01:38:46,945 --> 01:38:50,725
the fatigue of the development. But, um, I'm intrigued by the

1328
01:38:51,045 --> 01:38:52,425
hospital actually. Is there, um,

1329
01:38:55,165 --> 01:38:58,985
I didn't see that one coming. Is there a, is there a need? Is there are, are

1330
01:38:59,205 --> 01:39:03,165
the current phoenix bill, so I've been responsible for wasting up the

1331
01:39:03,485 --> 01:39:07,475
property for the last two years. Um, minimally haven't done a that

1332
01:39:07,765 --> 01:39:11,585
great of a job, unfortunately. Um, but that's more of a response to

1333
01:39:11,865 --> 01:39:15,685
market, uh, kind of inquiries. We've had three different hospitals come

1334
01:39:15,925 --> 01:39:19,725
to us and say, hey, you've got this parcel over there, like, we want to be in this

1335
01:39:20,155 --> 01:39:23,605
area. We think that this area doesn't have, you know, isn't served,

1336
01:39:24,345 --> 01:39:27,775
um, by a hospital adequately. Um, so after,

1337
01:39:28,385 --> 01:39:32,125
you know, the first call I was like, okay, whatever. Second call came in, third ca

1338
01:39:32,495 --> 01:39:36,285
third call came in. I was like, there has to be something here. And that's really why we wanted

1339
01:39:36,525 --> 01:39:40,365
to put it on there. We also had gmp, which is, you know, drug, uh, manufacturing,

1340
01:39:41,585 --> 01:39:45,485
um, companies that have reached out to us as well. So we're just, we want to keep that

1341
01:39:45,685 --> 01:39:49,515
parcel as you know, flexible right now. Okay. Um, but there, there's

1342
01:39:50,005 --> 01:39:53,465
one particular hospital that has been more engaged than the other two.

1343
01:39:54,305 --> 01:39:58,285
um, and in response to your high density, we see

1344
01:39:58,485 --> 01:40:02,345
it, I, I'm here, you know, once a week, um, love the area. Um,

1345
01:40:03,035 --> 01:40:06,885
grew up in pennsylvania and uh, I, you know, we could

1346
01:40:07,045 --> 01:40:10,815
have come in here with, you know, four over one 3000

1347
01:40:11,535 --> 01:40:15,405
units and we, we just, I think, you know, from a commercial standpoint,

1348
01:40:16,045 --> 01:40:19,845
we, we kind of think that market's kind of maxed out. So we just, I don't wanna build something that

1349
01:40:20,055 --> 01:40:23,765
isn't saleable right. And that'll stay vacant. I have already got vacant space

1350
01:40:24,085 --> 01:40:28,005
that I need to deal with. So that's kind of what we came in with, uh, different

1351
01:40:28,365 --> 01:40:32,245
products I to, to serve a different demographic. Um, I like that you

1352
01:40:32,405 --> 01:40:36,305
started a townhouse and not stacked up. Yeah, it's, it's not stacked. It, they're regular old

1353
01:40:36,535 --> 01:40:38,935
townhouses. I think the 24 by 52

1354
01:40:40,835 --> 01:40:44,805
it'd be, uh, you know, three bedroom, you know, two and a half, three story, three bedroom.

1355
01:40:46,025 --> 01:40:49,925
um, they'd be nice units. Um, and, you know, you can't see it

1356
01:40:50,045 --> 01:40:53,875
very well on the plan, but, you know, it shows a full amenity area, full

1357
01:40:54,165 --> 01:40:58,005
pickleball courts. And we can, we, we can get into

1358
01:40:58,245 --> 01:41:01,955
the details on that. I mean, we, we are very fortunate that

1359
01:41:02,355 --> 01:41:06,145
land is not our issue on this property. Um, we

1360
01:41:06,365 --> 01:41:09,895
have a lot of flexibility. Uh, this was really just a starting point

1361
01:41:11,585 --> 01:41:15,355
to really look at, you know, from a zoning perspective, that

1362
01:41:15,645 --> 01:41:19,605
if we proceed forward, what we'd love to say is okay, you know,

1363
01:41:20,935 --> 01:41:24,125
mixed use makes sense on the property. A residential component,

1364
01:41:25,005 --> 01:41:28,075
a hospital component, uh, maybe manufacturing.

1365
01:41:29,625 --> 01:41:33,565
we don't see this as a great retail site. Um, it's just,

1366
01:41:33,875 --> 01:41:37,745
it's just too big. That's why I was curious how married you are to the fast food the

1367
01:41:37,965 --> 01:41:41,725
corner. We're, we're, we have, the only real interest we have

1368
01:41:42,025 --> 01:41:45,995
is, is the bank. I think it's a great little bank pad site. We think that some,

1369
01:41:46,385 --> 01:41:49,705
you know, quick serve restaurants or sit down restaurants makes a lot of sense for

1370
01:41:50,465 --> 01:41:54,165
the, uh, existing office tenants and the future tenants. We couldn't

1371
01:41:54,485 --> 01:41:58,405
care about the convenience store. I mean, it's just a placeholder. Anything that's objectional

1372
01:41:59,515 --> 01:42:03,445
what we don't want, and we will not proceed with, you know, a fight on this.

1373
01:42:03,545 --> 01:42:07,445
you know, we're here with a fight on this project, right? We want to,

1374
01:42:07,625 --> 01:42:11,325
we want to work with it. We wanna work with you guys, bring a project that, that

1375
01:42:11,725 --> 01:42:15,565
everyone's proud of. Um, and that's why, to your point,

1376
01:42:15,805 --> 01:42:19,445
we're taking this baby step to make sure that we're at least

1377
01:42:20,105 --> 01:42:24,065
in the ballpark and that we can, you know, not spend our money, not waste your time, not

1378
01:42:24,285 --> 01:42:27,285
waste our time, but proceed forward with the project. That makes sense for everybody.

1379
01:42:28,445 --> 01:42:32,325
I appreciate your privilege. The retail's interesting. I,

1380
01:42:32,725 --> 01:42:36,725
I almost wanna spend time and kind of take an assessment of what is all the things going here?

1381
01:42:37,435 --> 01:42:41,025
what do we actually, because there's a lot going in at quest now,

1382
01:42:41,445 --> 01:42:45,005
I have potential to put something additional in here that we don't have

1383
01:42:45,545 --> 01:42:49,515
in the township, right? So what, how can we be creative with what

1384
01:42:49,805 --> 01:42:53,205
yeah, what, what don't we have that, maybe we can go into this.

1385
01:42:53,985 --> 01:42:57,815
can you show the, the buildings that are currently being used again

1386
01:42:58,265 --> 01:43:01,165
in the, can you yep. We'll get,

1387
01:43:05,065 --> 01:43:09,005
so just the ones, so dow is all of the blue. Dow has this

1388
01:43:09,245 --> 01:43:13,205
portion right here, right on the hard copy. You can see it

1389
01:43:13,365 --> 01:43:17,345
highlighted easier. So the, are they all occupied or not? No,

1390
01:43:17,785 --> 01:43:21,625
we have, dow has about, um, a 1.9 million square feet. Dow

1391
01:43:21,845 --> 01:43:25,745
has, uh, about 800,000 square feet. Pfizer has about 6 75,

1392
01:43:26,945 --> 01:43:30,845
and then keller williams has a four building a and that's about it.

1393
01:43:30,965 --> 01:43:34,185
everything else is, is currently vacant. What's the plan for,

1394
01:43:35,465 --> 01:43:39,365
for those cases now? Are you, we're hoping that, that by creating

1395
01:43:39,755 --> 01:43:43,645
more of a destination, a little more activity, um, and that's really

1396
01:43:44,305 --> 01:43:47,945
the retail. I, I, I hear you. Um, if we had some quick service retail,

1397
01:43:48,385 --> 01:43:52,285
we think it's a little bit easier than people getting in their cars and coming over to wegman's

1398
01:43:52,725 --> 01:43:56,105
across the way, which I do every time I come for lunch. Um,

1399
01:43:57,145 --> 01:44:00,845
and, uh, you know, that'll drive some more leasing activity at, at the buildings.

1400
01:44:01,495 --> 01:44:05,265
right now we're just an office park in the middle of kind of a fields

1401
01:44:05,685 --> 01:44:08,585
around us, but we,

1402
01:44:09,765 --> 01:44:13,685
you know, just, just chime in, you know, the town better than we do. If

1403
01:44:13,905 --> 01:44:17,715
there's a use that you feel could benefit the community, we're

1404
01:44:18,065 --> 01:44:21,585
all ears. I mean, it's, uh, we, we have the real estate, it's just,

1405
01:44:22,805 --> 01:44:26,745
we don't yeah, that's kind of where my head was at. I appreciate your

1406
01:44:27,105 --> 01:44:30,865
openness with that. I think we have to step back a little bit about that.

1407
01:44:31,285 --> 01:44:35,255
we, we also have an old farmhouse that, uh, is currently vacant. Uh, it's

1408
01:44:35,545 --> 01:44:39,525
in really good, it's really good shape. Um, but we don't, we don't use it. We

1409
01:44:39,745 --> 01:44:43,625
don't know what to do with it. So we're open. Where, where is it on? Where is it on? Oh, is it, so our, our old

1410
01:44:43,785 --> 01:44:47,585
barn, which is the conference center is right here. And then the farmhouse is, uh,

1411
01:44:47,805 --> 01:44:51,605
is right there. It was converted to a three, uh, person hotel, um,

1412
01:44:52,095 --> 01:44:56,085
with three suites, but nobody uses it anymore. Um, so,

1413
01:44:56,525 --> 01:45:00,295
and we don't know with that open suggestions. Yeah.

1414
01:45:00,975 --> 01:45:04,685
article in like was it the philadelphia enquire like couple

1415
01:45:05,785 --> 01:45:09,785
a year ago? It could have been two years ago at this point about, um, this like life science campus that

1416
01:45:10,065 --> 01:45:13,985
was interview with you. Is this we, yeah. Shortly after we closed, that was our

1417
01:45:14,105 --> 01:45:17,865
idea is, uh, life sciences. Um, uh, that market

1418
01:45:18,155 --> 01:45:22,005
dried up signifi significantly. Uh, unfortunately after we closed. Um,

1419
01:45:22,835 --> 01:45:26,585
we've been trying to draw people out there. Um, it's tough to get,

1420
01:45:27,045 --> 01:45:30,805
uh, past, get them past kind of king of prussia area. Um,

1421
01:45:31,285 --> 01:45:35,095
and all the tenants that work, the life science tenants that are looking, they're

1422
01:45:35,585 --> 01:45:39,005
not just looking in philadelphia. They're really comparing philadelphia versus boston

1423
01:45:40,045 --> 01:45:43,945
and all the way down to like research triangle in north carolina center. You all the, like, the

1424
01:45:44,105 --> 01:45:48,065
push to move manufacturing here. Like, I hope that comes, I

1425
01:45:48,185 --> 01:45:51,465
hope that comes, we haven't seen it yet, but I hope it comes.

1426
01:45:52,765 --> 01:45:56,405
that's why the gmp facility up there, that would be perfect. Um,

1427
01:45:56,925 --> 01:45:59,985
you know, there's been a lot of talk, we just haven't seen anyone actually do it yet.

1428
01:46:02,175 --> 01:46:05,785
yeah. And we're not adverse to tearing down some of our vacancy

1429
01:46:06,965 --> 01:46:10,345
for the right tenant. Um, you know, we don't know

1430
01:46:11,525 --> 01:46:15,475
how much vacancy we have, but right now I think, you know, the, we have at close

1431
01:46:15,825 --> 01:46:19,785
to half a million square feet. So, um, we're looking at

1432
01:46:19,985 --> 01:46:21,945
any opportunities that, that, uh, present itself.

1433
01:46:25,515 --> 01:46:28,295
brainstorm board. Jeff.

1434
01:46:30,295 --> 01:46:33,885
well, I appreciate him starting the conversation. Yeah. We'll, we'll, we'll figure out what our next steps are.

1435
01:46:34,425 --> 01:46:38,145
I appreciate you coming and presenting this. This would requires a zoning change, right.

1436
01:46:38,965 --> 01:46:42,805
do this. So yeah, my thoughts on it, just initial thoughts is

1437
01:46:43,145 --> 01:46:46,525
a completely huge zoning district. I don't want to add this in as, as io

1438
01:46:48,085 --> 01:46:51,965
you know, residential diss residential that we have, we other subgroups. It would be something

1439
01:46:52,205 --> 01:46:55,545
I think that we, we look at just a complete new zoning district of

1440
01:46:56,815 --> 01:47:00,395
mixed f and something else that, that encapsulated all of what we concluded

1441
01:47:01,305 --> 01:47:04,985
for it. And, uh, you're

1442
01:47:05,405 --> 01:47:09,405
still gonna leave though all the existing buildings and an existing part. You're not talking about

1443
01:47:09,685 --> 01:47:12,915
your just, you don't wanna knock them down. You don't want that with mind.

1444
01:47:13,795 --> 01:47:17,185
well, we'd love to have the flexibility built in. We, we,

1445
01:47:18,825 --> 01:47:22,725
we misjudged the life science, you know, cycle. Um, so

1446
01:47:24,245 --> 01:47:27,665
it would, I think it would benefit the project and, and the property

1447
01:47:28,605 --> 01:47:32,505
to, to work with you guys and, and put everything that may or may not happen

1448
01:47:33,335 --> 01:47:36,985
that that works for you guys into the zoning as permitted uses or conditional

1449
01:47:37,455 --> 01:47:41,415
uses, depending upon how you want to structure it. Um, life

1450
01:47:41,705 --> 01:47:45,705
sciences may come back the next cycle. Um, so it's, it is

1451
01:47:45,785 --> 01:47:49,705
really, um, we don't plan on that right now 'cause the

1452
01:47:49,825 --> 01:47:53,825
market doesn't exist. But it doesn't mean that five years from now it doesn't. Well, what would work me a

1453
01:47:53,945 --> 01:47:57,905
little, a little bit is, um, you're gonna be redeveloping all around

1454
01:47:58,105 --> 01:48:02,025
the edges of this and you've still got this core of building as a parking

1455
01:48:02,245 --> 01:48:06,185
lot in the middle that may or may not make a comeback based on what you do around

1456
01:48:06,465 --> 01:48:10,265
it. So then what? It's just this dead core of industrial loadings.

1457
01:48:10,935 --> 01:48:14,825
yeah, I I, I, I wish I had an answer for you on that. Uh, it is our

1458
01:48:14,985 --> 01:48:17,785
hope, and it's actually our business plan, is that through,

1459
01:48:19,125 --> 01:48:22,945
um, adding these ultimate uses, as an example, if we do get a

1460
01:48:23,225 --> 01:48:26,785
hospital, there's those peripheral medical offices that follow hospitals.

1461
01:48:27,805 --> 01:48:31,405
and that could be an opportunity for us to fill some of the vacancy. Um,

1462
01:48:32,325 --> 01:48:36,225
you know, if you, if you give this, this, this, I'll call it a

1463
01:48:36,345 --> 01:48:39,985
live work environment, uh, there may be additional officers

1464
01:48:40,505 --> 01:48:44,255
that would come here 'cause their employees have, um, good

1465
01:48:44,545 --> 01:48:48,385
housing in close proximity. I think they're gonna have other opportunities in town as

1466
01:48:48,585 --> 01:48:52,485
well. But, um, you know, we don't want to tear 'em down yet. Um,

1467
01:48:52,875 --> 01:48:56,685
could we be back here in, in, in five years and 10 years and talking about, you

1468
01:48:56,905 --> 01:49:00,645
know, knocking down that core pfizer and

1469
01:49:01,085 --> 01:49:04,785
dow will be there. I'm not sure if they're gonna be in the same square footages,

1470
01:49:05,265 --> 01:49:09,225
but they will be there and they kind of book in that, that property to a point where

1471
01:49:09,885 --> 01:49:13,675
you have those, uh, four buildings in sort of the semicircle

1472
01:49:15,145 --> 01:49:19,105
configuration. Those are the ones that may be five years from now. If our business

1473
01:49:19,225 --> 01:49:22,185
plan doesn't work out, uh, we're gonna have to start thinking about

1474
01:49:23,295 --> 01:49:27,085
what we do with that core area. I'm

1475
01:49:27,305 --> 01:49:31,305
sorry, go ahead. I think this is also an opportunity to look at the zoning

1476
01:49:31,465 --> 01:49:35,345
for, this was originally written in 1970. I mean, this is obviously

1477
01:49:36,055 --> 01:49:39,945
that type of industrial or that type of business campus that really doesn't exist anymore.

1478
01:49:40,365 --> 01:49:44,105
you can see campuses up and down the, the corridor that, that have

1479
01:49:44,695 --> 01:49:48,625
gone a different way and, and, and been completely, you

1480
01:49:48,845 --> 01:49:52,805
know, remodeled or re redeveloped. I, you know, the parking standard

1481
01:49:52,905 --> 01:49:56,805
for this is probably much higher than it needs to be. I mean, I think at the planning commission

1482
01:49:57,165 --> 01:50:00,805
they mentioned people are there three days a week, so obviously you don't need to see a parking.

1483
01:50:01,585 --> 01:50:05,485
um, maybe that, you know, some of the development can go on

1484
01:50:05,605 --> 01:50:09,485
to where the existing parking is, not to the level maybe that the planning commission was hoping.

1485
01:50:09,985 --> 01:50:13,845
but, but you know, those are the ideas that we can take with us and, and sort of move

1486
01:50:14,045 --> 01:50:17,845
forward to see how we can adapt this from the 1970s

1487
01:50:18,365 --> 01:50:21,685
zoning and the 1970s development patterns to something that reflects more of the way

1488
01:50:22,425 --> 01:50:26,245
the society is now. And the more, as I said, a live work environment that that

1489
01:50:26,665 --> 01:50:29,645
is much more beneficial for the township if we are to move this forward.

1490
01:50:34,225 --> 01:50:38,115
thank you. Yeah, thank you so much. So,

1491
01:50:38,435 --> 01:50:42,425
um, we'll leave you with our materials and we'll

1492
01:50:42,775 --> 01:50:46,245
look to hear back. We'll work through your staff with your comments and hopefully

1493
01:50:46,925 --> 01:50:50,815
have some dialogue. But thanks for your time tonight. We really appreciate it. Thank you.

1494
01:50:50,975 --> 01:50:54,545
hopefully we'll hear from you soon. Good night. Kristen. Chris,

1495
01:50:55,535 --> 01:50:56,855
I have a thousand of these. Please take it.

1496
01:51:02,075 --> 01:51:04,655
um, our next item.

1497
01:51:06,155 --> 01:51:09,575
our next item was to discuss adding sewer building to the real estate

1498
01:51:10,595 --> 01:51:14,255
tax bill. But, uh, in our executive session we found that we

1499
01:51:14,625 --> 01:51:18,525
quite didn't have things lined up. So we're going to table that item

1500
01:51:18,815 --> 01:51:21,995
number eight. We need to make a motion to table, or

1501
01:51:24,365 --> 01:51:28,325
I'll make a motion to table agenda number eight this

1502
01:51:28,615 --> 01:51:32,335
evening relative to adding suitability into the real estate

1503
01:51:32,635 --> 01:51:36,595
tax base. I'll second that. Alright, I have a motion. And second, all those in

1504
01:51:36,815 --> 01:51:40,735
favor say aye. Aye. Anyone opposed? Thank you very much.

1505
01:51:42,205 --> 01:51:45,735
okay. Um, next we're gonna

1506
01:51:46,615 --> 01:51:50,415
consider authorizing the advertisement and sale of township owned property.

1507
01:51:51,675 --> 01:51:55,495
it is not real estate. It is to reiterate, this is personal property of

1508
01:51:55,695 --> 01:51:58,615
the township recommendation to equipment.

1509
01:51:59,845 --> 01:52:03,355
it's not open space. Now, generally twice a year staff, uh,

1510
01:52:04,195 --> 01:52:08,035
uh, puts together a list of, uh, surplus equipment that is at the end of it for

1511
01:52:08,255 --> 01:52:12,205
life. Most of it is, um, uh, I think most of, most

1512
01:52:12,495 --> 01:52:15,975
all of us has been replaced through the township's, uh, capital budget.

1513
01:52:16,875 --> 01:52:20,575
uh, so we're seeking boards authorization to advertise and sell a 2004

1514
01:52:21,485 --> 01:52:25,135
caterpillar skidsteer, a three point auger salt spreaders,

1515
01:52:26,015 --> 01:52:29,215
a 2018 dodge charger with 88,000 miles, a 2018

1516
01:52:30,105 --> 01:52:34,015
dodge ram 1500 with 112,000 miles, a

1517
01:52:34,135 --> 01:52:37,495
2005 load wright boat trailer without the boat.

1518
01:52:38,705 --> 01:52:42,555
44 sections of fire hose, multiple boxes, uh, high vein radios,

1519
01:52:43,025 --> 01:52:46,925
other various equipment, uh, of minimal value as we get

1520
01:52:47,085 --> 01:52:51,035
down the list. We'll be back to you again in january, february with the similar list.

1521
01:52:51,625 --> 01:52:54,925
are we gonna, it was on municipal bid. It would go on municipal bid.

1522
01:52:55,645 --> 01:52:59,605
publicly bid. That dodge charger is that got the, is that a police, a foreign

1523
01:52:59,725 --> 01:53:01,765
police car? Yes, it was intercept identity.

1524
01:53:10,055 --> 01:53:11,845
we're gonna put a gps on it. ,

1525
01:53:14,625 --> 01:53:18,605
um, auto tickets. I'll entertain a motion. I'll make

1526
01:53:18,725 --> 01:53:22,405
a motion to authorize the advertisement of the sale of township owned property as the student.

1527
01:53:23,195 --> 01:53:26,905
I'll second. Alright, I have a motion to second. All those in favor say aye.

1528
01:53:27,545 --> 01:53:30,005
aye. Anyone opposed? Thank you.

1529
01:53:32,015 --> 01:53:35,925
alright. And uh, next is motion to

1530
01:53:36,145 --> 01:53:39,505
enact ordinance 6 1 6 regarding the purpose of duties

1531
01:53:40,285 --> 01:53:42,895
of the uniform construction of fire board code appeals.

1532
01:53:45,365 --> 01:53:49,225
go ahead. The township, uh, has had a uniform construction

1533
01:53:49,465 --> 01:53:53,225
code board of appeals in place since 2004. Uh, when the pennsylvania

1534
01:53:53,625 --> 01:53:56,505
uniform construction code was, uh, enacted statewide

1535
01:53:58,445 --> 01:54:02,065
in my 10 years of the township, I think we've had three meetings

1536
01:54:02,465 --> 01:54:06,425
of that board where they, uh, sought a variance or, or appealed the, the building

1537
01:54:06,545 --> 01:54:10,305
code officials interpretation of the code. Uh, and the uniform

1538
01:54:10,865 --> 01:54:14,745
construction code establishes a very, very rough framework for what that board is supposed to do and

1539
01:54:14,945 --> 01:54:18,365
how they're supposed to act. Ordinance six 16, it was repaired by,

1540
01:54:19,005 --> 01:54:22,965
uh, the solicitor, uh, developed some procedures and

1541
01:54:23,355 --> 01:54:27,185
rules that they're to follow as they conduct meetings or hearings that's been

1542
01:54:27,465 --> 01:54:30,505
properly advertised or asked to the board to consider enacting the ordinance tonight.

1543
01:54:33,605 --> 01:54:37,565
we have any questions? If

1544
01:54:37,785 --> 01:54:41,465
not, I'll entertain a motion. I'll make a motion to enact ordinance six 16

1545
01:54:41,865 --> 01:54:45,865
regarding the purpose and duties of the uniform construction fire code board of appeals.

1546
01:54:48,295 --> 01:54:52,165
I'll second. I have a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye.

1547
01:54:52,925 --> 01:54:54,945
anyone opposed? Thank you.

1548
01:54:56,955 --> 01:55:00,855
and the next one's related. I see. Yeah, the, the

1549
01:55:01,055 --> 01:55:04,575
next resolution on your agenda is related to the uniform construction code board of appeals.

1550
01:55:05,395 --> 01:55:09,015
it amends the township's fee scheduled to establish a fee for of a $500

1551
01:55:09,755 --> 01:55:13,395
for a meeting or $1,000 for a hearing before

1552
01:55:13,895 --> 01:55:17,615
the board of appeals. Okay. Alright. I'll entertain

1553
01:55:17,975 --> 01:55:21,975
a motion. I'll make a motion to adopt resolution 2025

1554
01:55:23,285 --> 01:55:27,075
dash 29 amending the fee schedule to include fees for

1555
01:55:27,295 --> 01:55:31,245
the uniform construction and fire code board of appeals. I'll

1556
01:55:31,535 --> 01:55:35,515
second I motion a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye.

1557
01:55:35,995 --> 01:55:37,735
anyone opposed? Thank you.

1558
01:55:44,715 --> 01:55:48,055
okay. And now we're gonna talk about pension funds, right?

1559
01:55:49,265 --> 01:55:53,045
am I right mr. Chairman? This is something we do every september.

1560
01:55:53,465 --> 01:55:57,435
uh, we get the actuarial numbers from our, uh, two actuaries

1561
01:55:58,045 --> 01:56:01,525
from mock and hopin and joe do them for all of our defined contribution

1562
01:56:02,145 --> 01:56:05,965
and defined benefit plans. So the required

1563
01:56:06,545 --> 01:56:09,905
by september 30th, november year to provide with the actual

1564
01:56:10,565 --> 01:56:14,445
mmo, that's the required minimum, minimum municipal obligation

1565
01:56:14,925 --> 01:56:18,685
that we're supposed to, um, provide to bring, make pitch

1566
01:56:19,015 --> 01:56:21,765
funds whole. And these numbers will be reflected the 2026

1567
01:56:23,505 --> 01:56:27,485
budget. Did they go up a little from last year? The percentage? Joe, can you answer

1568
01:56:27,685 --> 01:56:30,605
that? They were here a few months ago, but I had forgotten.

1569
01:56:32,175 --> 01:56:33,635
we're just about the same. Yeah,

1570
01:56:41,395 --> 01:56:43,125
I'll entertain a motion this obligatory.

1571
01:56:47,185 --> 01:56:50,705
okay. I'll make a motions without resolution. 2025 dash 30 outlining

1572
01:56:51,495 --> 01:56:55,025
the 2026 minimum municipal obligations nmos

1573
01:56:55,815 --> 01:56:59,795
for the township pension plans. I second. I

1574
01:56:59,915 --> 01:57:03,775
have a motion a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Anyone

1575
01:57:04,195 --> 01:57:07,455
opposed? Thank you. And

1576
01:57:09,735 --> 01:57:13,595
motion to adopt resolution 2025 or consider adopting,

1577
01:57:13,975 --> 01:57:17,595
uh, resolution 2025 dash three one authorizing

1578
01:57:18,375 --> 01:57:21,915
the submission of an application for a rapc grant, uh, program

1579
01:57:22,615 --> 01:57:26,215
for the new public works facility. Mr.

1580
01:57:26,675 --> 01:57:30,595
chairman, this is our ongoing, uh, grant stacking strategy that we're trying to

1581
01:57:30,935 --> 01:57:33,715
get monies for the new facility. It's a long term project

1582
01:57:35,825 --> 01:57:39,425
wrap. The, uh, grant round just was announced, um, very

1583
01:57:39,955 --> 01:57:43,715
recently and there's a very short turnaround time. So, um, delta's put this

1584
01:57:44,115 --> 01:57:47,715
together for our consideration. This will be discussed at our budget workshop.

1585
01:57:48,265 --> 01:57:52,075
yeah, I we've got like 10 days, right? Yeah. Okay. So this is just to help us

1586
01:57:52,455 --> 01:57:54,905
pay for the new building. That's correct. Okay.

1587
01:57:57,845 --> 01:58:01,785
all right. I'll make a motion to do resolution 2025 dash 31 authorizing

1588
01:58:02,145 --> 01:58:06,065
the submission of an application to the racp grant program

1589
01:58:06,605 --> 01:58:10,585
for the new public works facility. I'll second that. I have a motion

1590
01:58:10,965 --> 01:58:14,645
and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Anyone

1591
01:58:15,065 --> 01:58:18,925
opposed? Thank you. Alright. Manager and

1592
01:58:19,145 --> 01:58:22,865
department head reports. Sue has a, she's here

1593
01:58:25,365 --> 01:58:29,305
an actual video. I'm sorry. Is that an actual video? No, it doesn't look like one

1594
01:58:29,425 --> 01:58:33,085
though. . I didn't know if I had to press plug. I'm not that much fun.

1595
01:58:34,005 --> 01:58:37,785
um, well we talked a lot about parks today, so I'm gonna show

1596
01:58:38,025 --> 01:58:41,785
the other side of my department and show a little bit of recreation. Um,

1597
01:58:42,855 --> 01:58:46,395
thank you jeff. So I wanted to give you a little bit of our past.

1598
01:58:47,145 --> 01:58:51,005
um, we ran through summer camps this year. I just wanted to give you some of

1599
01:58:51,165 --> 01:58:54,925
the stats. We had 15 camps overall this summer, 10 half

1600
01:58:55,185 --> 01:58:58,685
day, the rest full day. Um, with the hard work from bob, our recreation

1601
01:58:59,405 --> 01:59:03,215
and camp coordinator, as well as melissa, our program coordinator in our new canva

1602
01:59:03,565 --> 01:59:07,485
pro. Um, all their efforts paid off 'cause 95% of our camps were

1603
01:59:07,685 --> 01:59:11,565
full or at max capacity. Many of them also had a wait list, which

1604
01:59:11,885 --> 01:59:15,855
was very encouraging for our upcoming season. I'm sorry. Thank

1605
01:59:16,205 --> 01:59:19,805
you. And goodnight. Thank you, sir. Thank you all.

1606
01:59:23,665 --> 01:59:27,565
um, so we started our summer camp off with our camp blackrock and a couple of our

1607
01:59:27,965 --> 01:59:31,285
specialty camps and then ended our season out with our emergency service academy.

1608
01:59:35,775 --> 01:59:39,775
summer also didn't end here. We had our broad belt classic. This was our car

1609
01:59:39,995 --> 01:59:43,515
show. Um, the rain really hit us hard this spring and summer.

1610
01:59:44,255 --> 01:59:48,135
um, majority of our things were rained. Um, we

1611
01:59:48,535 --> 01:59:52,455
so came out hard that day. We had 50 plus cars, over 150 to

1612
01:59:52,675 --> 01:59:56,235
200 spectators, our food trucks, and we had some raffle baskets.

1613
01:59:56,995 --> 02:00:00,785
everyone that was there had a great time and hopefully next year we can have some sunny days.

1614
02:00:03,295 --> 02:00:06,635
summer concerts also took a pretty hard hit with the rain.

1615
02:00:07,375 --> 02:00:11,155
um, it seemed every other wednesday when we had a concert, it rained or thunder stormed.

1616
02:00:12,415 --> 02:00:16,355
um, but luckily with the use of the gymnasium over at the

1617
02:00:16,435 --> 02:00:20,355
community center, we had majority of our concerts inside. We still had

1618
02:00:20,555 --> 02:00:24,515
a good turnout between 75 and a hundred people. Given that we made that decision in the

1619
02:00:24,635 --> 02:00:28,395
afternoon of the concert. Um, we did have a couple of our concerts outside.

1620
02:00:28,855 --> 02:00:32,155
we did get lucky. Um, we had swifty in the midnights that ended

1621
02:00:32,935 --> 02:00:36,895
our summer concert series and we had over a couple hundred people there that night. Um,

1622
02:00:37,135 --> 02:00:40,835
we filled up the entire parking area over at anderson. We canceled all activities

1623
02:00:41,315 --> 02:00:44,915
that night. Um, so we had a very nice turnout to end out the season.

1624
02:00:46,785 --> 02:00:50,315
another rained out event. Um, we were supposed to have music

1625
02:00:50,835 --> 02:00:54,295
fest in may and we canceled that and moved it to august.

1626
02:00:55,375 --> 02:00:59,165
um, august proved to be a much better date. Um, we had eight bands

1627
02:00:59,515 --> 02:01:03,355
that lasted the entire day. We prepared for the heat. We had a water slide

1628
02:01:03,675 --> 02:01:07,475
there that day with the share of complications, but it worked out very nicely

1629
02:01:07,975 --> 02:01:11,875
and kids were super excited and the parents actually, we noticed more people staying

1630
02:01:12,235 --> 02:01:15,735
longer at this music fest than they have before. So, um,

1631
02:01:16,625 --> 02:01:20,625
very good success. I have to thank tim williams. He's a local resident that helps gain

1632
02:01:21,135 --> 02:01:25,025
all the bands and they're all local. So we're excited to have

1633
02:01:25,445 --> 02:01:29,255
music fest in june next year. We're trying to push away from the

1634
02:01:29,475 --> 02:01:33,015
spring months. April may tend not to be that great for us, so

1635
02:01:33,705 --> 02:01:37,675
move to june. Um, I

1636
02:01:37,795 --> 02:01:41,685
don't know why that logo looks so funny, but, um, we're gonna go into

1637
02:01:41,885 --> 02:01:45,045
the present. So this weekend is fall fest annual fall festival.

1638
02:01:45,945 --> 02:01:49,345
um, last year we had approximately 6,500

1639
02:01:50,445 --> 02:01:54,365
people attend our fall fest. That is from 12 to noon. So over the five hour

1640
02:01:54,715 --> 02:01:58,205
span, we had a lot of people here, a lot of action. We anticipate

1641
02:01:58,805 --> 02:02:02,765
the same thing for this year's fall fest. Um, given that this

1642
02:02:02,965 --> 02:02:06,185
is our last year with the use of the large parking lot, um,

1643
02:02:07,185 --> 02:02:10,845
we are trying to trend at this location of how we're going to

1644
02:02:11,365 --> 02:02:15,305
improvise parking moving forward. We are partnered with valley forge baptist church,

1645
02:02:16,045 --> 02:02:19,765
a raider farm for this year to provide parking and shuttles. There will be bus shuttles

1646
02:02:20,205 --> 02:02:23,925
available, um, but we are going to continue using quest

1647
02:02:24,235 --> 02:02:28,125
this year with golf cart shuttles to get people over to location. But we

1648
02:02:28,325 --> 02:02:31,925
are opening some parking on site. We're gonna see how this works this year as a new layout.

1649
02:02:32,385 --> 02:02:36,325
so we're gonna see how it goes. Um, but we are going to have to start

1650
02:02:36,565 --> 02:02:40,245
thinking outside the box to get 6,000 people on this property that day.

1651
02:02:40,945 --> 02:02:44,565
um, but we are very excited. So if anybody is around, we are here, um, this

1652
02:02:45,045 --> 02:02:49,005
saturday from 12 to five. And then moving into our future,

1653
02:02:49,345 --> 02:02:52,725
we have some things coming up in the fall. We have our dance program.

1654
02:02:53,395 --> 02:02:57,355
it's our fifth season. We have over a hundred children that take this program. It's

1655
02:02:57,645 --> 02:03:01,445
11 weeks. Um, and we do actually have a full on dance recital

1656
02:03:01,925 --> 02:03:05,525
for 'em at the end. They all get costumes. Um, it's a very cute program.

1657
02:03:06,035 --> 02:03:10,035
it's come a very long way. Um, we are going forward with a community center open

1658
02:03:10,325 --> 02:03:13,865
house on october 3rd that is going to be halloween themed.

1659
02:03:14,745 --> 02:03:18,355
um, so if you're interested in coming, we have a lot of activities centralized

1660
02:03:19,045 --> 02:03:22,285
around halloween. So if you have a costume, I encourage you to wear it.

1661
02:03:23,145 --> 02:03:26,845
um, given our successive summer camp this year, we are going to start doing a schools

1662
02:03:27,185 --> 02:03:30,965
out camp. Um, we are going to start with skyhawks

1663
02:03:31,705 --> 02:03:35,525
in september, and then we're going to move to our normal staff running

1664
02:03:35,915 --> 02:03:39,245
some of the camps in october. And then

1665
02:03:40,185 --> 02:03:44,145
moving forward, we have, um, our busy winter as well. So

1666
02:03:44,365 --> 02:03:47,975
we have our eds trip in december, our winter wonderland.

1667
02:03:49,065 --> 02:03:52,445
um, our light show starts, um, the day after, after thanksgiving.

1668
02:03:53,745 --> 02:03:57,705
um, we have swooped the eagle coming to a raider farm that night. Um, so

1669
02:03:57,935 --> 02:04:01,525
we're very excited about that. And then we have santa visiting the firehouse

1670
02:04:02,225 --> 02:04:05,725
in december and that perhaps up our year so far.

1671
02:04:07,095 --> 02:04:09,505
thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you sir.

1672
02:04:18,505 --> 02:04:22,105
um, consultant reports, anything from, uh, any

1673
02:04:22,645 --> 02:04:26,565
engineering capital group? Um, if you were down in montclair in the

1674
02:04:26,685 --> 02:04:30,405
past couple days, they're doing some more stabilization down there on the fema properties,

1675
02:04:31,145 --> 02:04:33,575
so trying to bring those to the end. Okay, great.

1676
02:04:36,025 --> 02:04:39,945
um, okay, now

1677
02:04:40,165 --> 02:04:43,965
we need to, uh, approve the monthly developer improvement guarantee

1678
02:04:44,805 --> 02:04:46,885
reduction list. We just have one item, I'll make the motion.

1679
02:04:50,315 --> 02:04:54,075
I make a motion to approve the monthly developer improvement guarantee reduction

1680
02:04:54,355 --> 02:04:57,675
list as follows. Item a harfield

1681
02:04:58,665 --> 02:05:01,195
release number two in the amount of $3,345,069

1682
02:05:05,535 --> 02:05:09,475
and 67 cents. Alright, I have

1683
02:05:09,555 --> 02:05:12,975
a motion and a second. All those in favor say aye. Aye. Aye.

1684
02:05:14,155 --> 02:05:16,955
alright, thank you very much. Anyone opposed? Alright.

1685
02:05:18,625 --> 02:05:22,605
uh, solicitor report, anything mr. Sch? Solicitor? I have no report this evening.

1686
02:05:23,155 --> 02:05:26,285
okay. Supervisor comments? Anybody want make to comment?

1687
02:05:28,115 --> 02:05:31,915
alright, slow down. Don't pass the school buses. That's my comment. Alright,

1688
02:05:32,705 --> 02:05:36,205
uh, I'll go over this upcoming schedule board supervisors

1689
02:05:36,845 --> 02:05:40,765
meeting schedule. September 25th at seven o'clock. We have a budget

1690
02:05:41,365 --> 02:05:45,185
workshop, september 30th, another budget workshop. And

1691
02:05:45,405 --> 02:05:48,725
october 7th, our third and final budget workshop.

1692
02:05:49,585 --> 02:05:52,445
our next regular meeting will be october 20th at 7:00 pm

1693
02:05:53,665 --> 02:05:56,125
and then again november 17th at 7:00 pm

1694
02:05:58,425 --> 02:06:01,885
uh, planning commission will meet september 17th at 7:00 pm

1695
02:06:02,635 --> 02:06:06,245
this wednesday. Agenda items will be comprehensive plan action

1696
02:06:06,645 --> 02:06:09,915
items, traffic safety, uh, october 1st

1697
02:06:10,845 --> 02:06:14,845
they meet at 7:00 pm the agenda item will be 5 92 south mennonite

1698
02:06:15,515 --> 02:06:18,355
road. Uh, spotless car wash

1699
02:06:19,985 --> 02:06:23,505
1 8 18 51 east ridge pike. The hassan

1700
02:06:24,115 --> 02:06:26,755
road subdivision october 15th,

1701
02:06:28,265 --> 02:06:29,565
uh, meeting is canceled.

1702
02:06:33,105 --> 02:06:36,885
the reason that's canceled is because of the open space discussion that's

1703
02:06:37,275 --> 02:06:41,125
scheduled for that night. Okay, so it says canceled here, but there's

1704
02:06:41,445 --> 02:06:45,005
still a meeting that night. Okay. Um, the environmental

1705
02:06:45,595 --> 02:06:49,245
environmental advisory or advisory

1706
02:06:49,635 --> 02:06:53,605
council, uh, meeting on the 17th is also canceled for the

1707
02:06:53,725 --> 02:06:57,485
same reason I assume, to have the open meeting, the open space, uh, referendum

1708
02:06:58,045 --> 02:07:02,005
discussion. Yeah. We're gonna move the eac to that night because they're involved with

1709
02:07:02,165 --> 02:07:06,005
this process. Okay. Parks and rec committee meets, uh, october 8th

1710
02:07:06,725 --> 02:07:09,845
and 6:00 pm municipal authority meets, uh, october 2nd

1711
02:07:10,825 --> 02:07:14,605
at 7:00 pm zoning hearing board, uh, has no pending

1712
02:07:14,845 --> 02:07:18,805
applications and no upcoming meetings scheduled. We did just get one today just for

1713
02:07:18,925 --> 02:07:22,685
full disclosure. Okay. So we have, they no, we have nothing.

1714
02:07:23,425 --> 02:07:27,045
so we, we did get an application today. If you're interested, keep your eyes

1715
02:07:27,665 --> 02:07:31,575
on, on the, uh, website open space render refer

1716
02:07:32,735 --> 02:07:36,005
referendum information session october 15th at 7:00 pm

1717
02:07:37,345 --> 02:07:40,165
and this weekend, saturday community fall fest. September 20th.

1718
02:07:41,675 --> 02:07:45,585
five. Uh, 12 to five right here on this campus. It's a lot of fun. Uh,

1719
02:07:46,025 --> 02:07:49,995
so everybody come out for that and, uh, we're done. And I'll

1720
02:07:50,285 --> 02:07:53,525
entertain a motion to adjourn. I make a motion to adjourn.

1721
02:07:54,465 --> 02:07:56,565
second, do we have a motion to second for adjourn?