[0:04] Good evening everyone, We will call this evenings easy a meeting.
[0:08] To order.
[0:10] First off, may we have the roll call please?
[0:12] Banner is passing.
[0:15] Phillips here.
[0:17] Holt here, Brady here, Lundy here.
[0:21] And we have Homer Taft with us this evening, our Council representative, Anthony Valerius, our service director.
[0:27] Good evening.
[0:30] All right, Has the board had an opportunity to review the?
[0:33] Meeting minutes as of August 25th, 2026.
[0:39] Are there any?
[0:41] Points of discussion, additions, or correction to.
[0:44] The meeting minutes.
[0:46] That being the case, I would like to make a motion to.
[0:50] Approve the.
[0:51] Meeting minutes.
[0:52] As of August 20.
[0:54] 5th, 2026.
[0:56] I'll 2nd and any further discussion.
[1:01] Volt, Phillips.
[1:04] Brady Epstein.
[1:05] One day, yes. Motion carried.
[1:09] Thank you much.
[1:11] And onto correspondence for this evening.
[1:15] OK, we have multiple pieces of correspondence this evening to read, so just bear with me as I read them all.
[1:23] The first says good evening, Mr. Chair, person and members of the Board.
[1:28] Please accept this e-mail for inclusion in the official record.
[1:31] Regarding the variance request associated with the codified ordinance.
[1:34] 1272.09 H.
[1:37] Unfortunately, I'm unable to attend the meeting in person. However, I respectfully submit the following comments for the board's.
[1:43] Consideration prior to its decision on this matter.
[1:47] My name is Timothy Goble. I reside at 624 Guilford Rd. in Vermilion. I'm writing to respectfully oppose the requested variance
[1:52] which would permit the unfinished side of a fence to face my property.
[1:57] Contrary to the requirements of the city's ordinance.
[2:00] The applicant is seeking permission to install a fence with the unfinished side.
[2:04] Including the posts and rails facing my property rather than the finished side required by the codified ordinance 1272.098.
[2:12] As the Board is aware, variants should only be granted when there is a practical difficulty or hardship arising from the unique
[2:16] characteristics of the property itself.
[2:19] Such circumstances typically involve the physical conditions of the land, such as unusual lot dimensions, topographical
[2:23] challenges.
[2:26] Or other site specific constraints.
[2:28] Based on the information presented, the property appears fully capable of accommodating a fence that complies with the ordinance.
[2:34] The request does not appear to result from a physical limitation of the land, but rather from the applicants preferred fence
[2:38] orientation.
[2:41] In additional reasonable code compliant alternatives are available.
[2:45] The applicant may install the fence with the finished side facing outward as required by the ordinance, or select a fence design
[2:49] that presents a finished appearance on both sides.
[2:54] The city fence ordinance serves as an important.
[2:56] Purpose by promoting A consistent neighborhood appearance and ensuring that adjacent property owners are not required to view the
[3:00] structural framing of a fence.
[3:04] Granting a variance in the absence of a property related hardship would undermine the intent of that work.
[3:10] For these reasons, I respect the.
[3:11] Respectfully request that the Board uphold the requirements of the Codified Ordinance 1272.098.
[3:17] And deny the variance request.
[3:19] Thank you for your time, consideration, and service to the community. I respectfully request that this correspondence be included
[3:24] in the official record and considered during the Board's deliberations. Respectfully. Timothy Copeland.
[3:32] OK, the next one says. Dear members of the board, I'm writing as the owner and resident of 3512 Edgewater Dr. to enter my formal
[3:37] objection into the public record regarding the rear.
[3:42] Yard set back variance application submitted by Matthew Miller.
[3:46] For 3500 Aswater Drive.
[3:49] The applicant requests permission to construct an elevated second story screen porch that encroaches 14 feet 10 inches into the
[3:53] required 30 foot rear yard setback.
[3:58] Under Ohio law governing area variances.
[4:01] Inverse Middlefield.
[4:02] The board must determine whether the variance is substantial, whether it harms neighboring properties and whether granting it
[4:07] comprises public health, safety or established zoning standards.
[4:12] The application fails to meet those statutory thresholds on several distinct points.
[4:17] #1 the variance is substantial, nearly 50% encroachment.
[4:20] The zoning code requires a 30 foot rear yard set back to maintain uniform structure alignment.
[4:26] Neighborhood density.
[4:27] And shoreline separation permitting a 14 foot 10 inch encroachment reduces the buffer to roughly 15 feet 2 inches.
[4:34] This is an extreme departure from the code, not an incidental or.
[4:39] Diminish the deviation.
[4:42] #2 severe structure and suffers.
[4:45] Subsurface Foundation concerns a 25 foot rock.
[4:49] Slash.
[4:51] The proposed elevated porch would sit over ground that is not undisturbed native soil, but approximately 20 feet of rock and stone
[4:54] backfill.
[4:58] Place during historical breakwater construction.
[5:01] I have direct, visual and documented proof establishing this back pill death.
[5:05] Constructing an elevated structural second story addition over.
[5:09] Roughly 25 feet of unconsolidated rock.
[5:12] And RIP rap.
[5:14] Present several structure and engineering challenges.
[5:17] Standard foundation footers cannot be properly poured or seated in loose Rockville.
[5:22] Without risking differential setting.
[5:24] Structural shifting or failure unless prior systems are engineered to penetrate the entire 25 foot rock depths to sound bedrock.
[5:33] Approving a massive set back encroachment over.
[5:36] Unverified heavy rock fill directly compromises structural safety.
[5:40] #3 substantial.
[5:42] Obstruction of shared lakefront views and like.
[5:45] Because the structure is an elevated second story addition rather than ground level deck, extending it nearly 15 feet past the
[5:50] established set back line creates an artificial visual wall.
[5:55] Recruiting into the shoreline corridor.
[5:58] This projection severely encroaches upon the long standing lake views, open air and natural sight lines shared by adjacent and
[6:02] nearby properties along Edgewater Dr.
[6:07] #4 self create a difficulty.
[6:09] With read.
[6:10] Are with readily available alternatives.
[6:13] The applicant enjoys full reasonable residential use of the existing dwelling.
[6:17] The desire to push an elevated screen porch 15 feet beyond the set back line is a personal architectural.
[6:23] Preference.
[6:24] Not an unavoidable physical hardship caused by the law itself.
[6:28] The property has ample space to accommodate an outdoor living area entirely within the conforming 30 foot setback.
[6:34] Envelope on the ground level.
[6:37] Granting an extraordinary 50.
[6:39] Percent setback variance to construct an elevated living area over 25 feet of rock backfill sets an unsound precedent.
[6:47] Compromises shoreline safety and directly harms neighboring properties.
[6:50] Matthew Miller never contacted me or the neighbors as far as I know, as to what he proposed.
[6:55] He said he did by putting my name on the variance application, which is a false statement.
[7:00] He also left out the neighbor, Jeff Kasler at 3524 Edgewater.
[7:04] Who is within the 100 foot notification area?
[7:07] I respectfully urge the Board to deny this rear yard set back variance application.
[7:12] Respectfully submitted by Dan.
[7:14] There we go.
[7:16] At 3512 Edgewater Dr.
[7:21] The next one. Dear members of the Board, I am the owner and resident of Three Nine or Three 492 Edgewater Dr. immediately
[7:26] adjoining 3500 Edgewater Drive to the east.
[7:32] I previously submitted concerns regarding the proposed addition and I'm waiting.
[7:36] Or writing to formally state my objection to the requested.
[7:39] My concern is straightforward.
[7:41] I oppose allowing any new addition at 3500 Edgewater Dr. to extend the existing structure farther towards the lake and into the
[7:45] required setup.
[7:50] The submitted plans show a new elevated addition extending to approximately 15 feet, 2 inches from the lakeward.
[7:56] Property line.
[7:58] Where the rear or where the required set back is 30 feet.
[8:01] This requires approximately 14 feet 10 inches of relief, nearly half of the required set back.
[8:07] This is a significant encroachment for new construction rather than the remodeling or maintenance of the home's existing
[8:10] footprint.
[8:14] I'm concerned not only what the size of this particular request, but with.
[8:17] Allow a reconstruction to advance the existing lakeward footprint at all.
[8:22] The current Lakewood line of the home is established, allowing additional structure to move beyond that line with further approach
[8:26] into the set back.
[8:30] Directly.
[8:31] Affects the existing openness.
[8:33] Sightlines and relationship between the neighboring properties and the lakefront.
[8:37] I also have concerns about the potential safety and structural risks.
[8:41] Associated with advancing a new elevated structure for their Lakewood.
[8:45] The proposed construction would be in close proximity to the existing retaining wall, which drops to a lower level.
[8:51] An area consisting of substantial rock and back, though.
[8:54] Given the retaining wall, elevation change, shoreline conditions, and underlying Garrettville, I believe these conditions deserve
[8:59] careful consideration before allowing additional structure to advance into the required.
[9:05] The property already has a reasonable residential use and improvements or modifications can be considered without advancing the
[9:09] existing structure further towards the lake.
[9:13] I do not believe a variance should be granted to allow new construction beyond the homes existing Lakewood Prep.
[9:19] For these reasons, I respectfully ask the board to deny the requested variance.
[9:22] And not permit new construction to extend beyond the homes existing Lakewood.
[9:27] I plan to attend the September 22nd hearing to voice my objections and address any questions the Board may have. Please include
[9:32] this letter with the materials provided to the Board as part of the recording and the hearing.
[9:38] Thank you for your time and consideration Which?
[9:40] Effectively, Zach Flip.
[9:42] 3492 Edgewater Dr.
[9:46] We have one more.
[9:47] Dear Vermont Building Department, we are writing respect.
[9:50] She respectfully opposed the requested year rear yard set back experience.
[9:55] 1270.09 E 2B.
[9:58] For the property at 3500 at Warner Blvd. we understand the applicant's request is a 14 foot 10 inch rear yard variance to
[10:03] accommodate the proposed 2 story addition and screen porch.
[10:09] Our concern is that the proposed addition extends beyond the natural rear yard building line.
[10:14] And would obstruct our existing view to the West and the lake.
[10:17] While we understand that previous construction does not establish precedent, we would like to share that our home is located to
[10:21] houses away from this property.
[10:25] When we built our home in 2025, we followed the required front.
[10:29] Side and where your suspects and also.
[10:31] Voluntarily modified our plans to move our home.
[10:34] Are there from the rear set back?
[10:36] We did this specifically to help preserve the northern and western lake view shared by the homes in this area.
[10:43] You have spoken with the new owner and pointed out the property boundaries and the angle of the existing Lakeviews.
[10:48] Should he wish to consider a similar approach.
[10:51] Unfortunately, it appears that current plans do not follow that rear building line.
[10:56] Which we believe would negatively affect the views enjoyed by neighboring homeowners.
[11:01] To clarify, we are not opposed to the requested minimum side yard variance. 1270.0982 C.
[11:07] Are concerned specifically with the minimum rear yard variance 1270.09 each because of its impact on our property and life use.
[11:15] Due to work obligations, we are unable to attend the Board of Zoning Appeals meeting on September 22nd.
[11:20] We respectfully ask that this letter be included in the record and that our opposition to the requested rear yard variance be
[11:24] considered. Thank you for your time and consideration.
[11:28] Sincerely, Bill and Christy.
[11:31] I'm sorry if I say this wrong.
[11:34] Lamanquits.
[11:35] 3484 Edgewater Blvd.
[11:40] And that's what I have.
[11:41] OK. Thank you very much.
[11:46] Onto administering the.
[11:48] Oath.
[11:52] We were going to administer the oath to all attendings who wish to speak, either presenting a proposal.
[11:58] Tonight or would like to comment.
[12:00] On a proposal.
[12:02] Being submitted before we do, I'd like to.
[12:05] Offer a brief statement from the chair that each request presented to this board.
[12:09] Is reviewed on.
[12:11] Each request's own merit judgments rendered are not based on similar or previous decisions.
[12:17] And when unsatisfied with any decision reached by this Board.
[12:21] An applicant may either reapply to this board with a modified proposal.
[12:26] Or appeal the decision.
[12:28] Up to the county.
[12:29] Court of Common Pleas.
[12:31] This board strives who are comfortable.
[12:33] Informal atmosphere while conducting its business.
[12:37] And I would ask that everyone who intends to speak during this evening's meeting, please stand up now.
[12:43] Raise your right hand and repeat the following oath after me.
[12:49] We do solemnly swear to speak truthfully.
[12:54] During the proceeding of this evening's meeting.
[12:58] So help us God.
[13:01] Thank you very much.
[13:03] And as a reminder to all, when you do approach the podium, we'll call the applicants up first, give them an opportunity to present
[13:07] their proposal the board.
[13:11] To ask any questions or seek clarification from the applicant.
[13:15] When you do approach the podium, please state your name.
[13:18] And address for the record.
[13:19] Into the microphone.
[13:23] Additionally, as we've seen, we do have.
[13:26] A unusually high amount of correspondence and quite a full docket this evening.
[13:31] So we're going to ask that each person speaking either applicant or comment or on an application.
[13:38] Please limit their.
[13:39] As speaking time to 5 minutes or less, excluding any.
[13:43] Questions or clarifications?
[13:46] Prompted by the board, but any.
[13:48] Proposals or comments?
[13:49] To 5 minutes or less please.
[13:52] Thank you very much.
[13:55] OK, you have a.
[13:56] No old business. So on to our new business.
[14:01] Michael Poet.
[14:09] Michael Coat, 362 Heaven Shire Rd.
[14:13] Good evening.
[14:14] How you doing today? Good. Thank you.
[14:16] And would you explain to us your application please?
[14:20] Design.
[14:23] Garage Foundation.
[14:26] Previous owners.
[14:28] Which is a 25 by 30.
[14:31] Foundation that sits right at the backside.
[14:34] Property. At this point it's 5 feet.
[14:37] Set back I'm looking to do.
[14:40] 6 foot sat there.
[14:42] Keep it inside the foundation a little bit more.
[14:45] Put a note.
[14:46] On the existing slab.
[14:48] And foundation in that.
[14:52] So the slab will remain new structures going on the slab.
[14:55] Yes, correct.
[14:59] And the backyard is bounced.
[15:00] So.
[15:04] We can't see anybody behind us.
[15:10] Good. And all the existing neighbors.
[15:16] Nobody has any issues with it.
[15:18] You're probably pleased with Wave Network.
[15:20] Clean enough is probably the same.
[15:23] So you've talked to all these people.
[15:26] That's how this works.
[15:34] Is this a prefabricated structure or kit structure or prefabricated metal structure?
[15:40] Hardboard.
[15:42] Pretty much comes in.
[15:43] Takes 4 hours to put it up there.
[15:46] I'll take my room.
[15:50] We're keeping it inside the foundation.
[15:52] Because the concrete is smoother area.
[15:55] We would have taken her all the ports and stuff stuck up from the.
[16:00] Old garage Antonio, you have no problems with the construction or anything that he's talking about?
[16:06] They'll be reviewed by the.
[16:08] All right here code.
[16:14] Sounds pretty straightforward.
[16:16] More questions for me. Any questions or comment from the board?
[16:20] I'll make a motion.
[16:25] Is there any comment or question on this proposal from members of the audience?
[16:30] OK, seeing as there is none, please.
[16:32] Please proceed.
[16:34] I'll make a motion in regarding the zoning district.
[16:38] Code section 1272.08.
[16:40] B Minimum you ought to set that 10 foot.
[16:44] Proposed means.
[16:46] 6 feet variance requested 4.
[16:49] I'll second.
[16:53] Any further discussion?
[16:56] Brady.
[16:57] Aye, Phillips.
[16:59] Yes.
[17:03] Thank you.
[17:08] A representative of Trinity Contracting Group for 476 Ash St.
[17:19] 1274 Adams St.
[17:23] Thanks for being here this evening and happy 1st day of both.
[17:26] Here we go.
[17:27] Which takes us to the subject matter.
[17:33] There is this Berlin with.
[17:36] Which one?
[17:38] Surfers though this is for.
[17:41] 476.
[17:48] The.
[17:51] Proposed addition of the.
[17:55] Northeast corner of the property.
[17:57] In the conforming guidelines of the existing structure for the outside parameters of it.
[18:05] The North Hotline and the East Hotline.
[18:09] Which is all against the Ash St.
[18:11] And it's, uh.
[18:18] But I mean.
[18:24] I believe it has their own Rs going.
[18:27] Well, the ash side is OK. I think it's against the neighborhood that is the.
[18:32] But you're asking for the.
[18:35] Yes, which is which is the side here, right?
[18:41] Yeah, and it's going to come straight where the building already is. It's going to just come further towards Ash.
[18:47] Because this is just going to come through the transaction.
[18:50] Feeling that little square, that's all.
[18:53] Yeah, they'll still be set back from the porch.
[18:57] And we don't still.
[18:58] I can't remember what was up there 6.
[19:05] 600 feet up there.
[19:07] Which I believe you know I begin.
[19:10] Actually, it's 900 minimum toys ask in this room.
[19:13] 5 foot up there which you know this is.
[19:17] This will be in front of their board here.
[19:20] Is it this week or next week? It'll.
[19:22] They'll run across their.
[19:24] But since it's the same as the back of the house, it's kind of none.
[19:29] So does he have to have firewalls?
[19:32] Is it? Is it?
[19:34] It's closer than 5 feet to the property line.
[19:36] Firewalls are required.
[19:38] So that's not on the variance, shouldn't that?
[19:42] OK, yes.
[19:44] You're going to build them.
[19:51] And all neighbors and those in proximity contacted no opposition.
[20:02] Other questions for me?
[20:04] Are there any comments?
[20:06] From members of the audience on the proposal for 476 Ash St.
[20:12] OK, seeing as there are none, I will make a motion.
[20:16] Or zoning district Rs.
[20:18] Section twelve. 7009 E 2C.
[20:21] A side yard set back.
[20:23] Requirement of seven feet with a proposal of four feet for a requested variance.
[20:28] Of three feet.
[20:30] 2nd and any further discussion.
[20:36] Phillips, Yes.
[20:38] Aye, Brady. Yes, Wendy, Yes.
[20:42] Very much, I suspect you will.
[20:46] Be the representative for the next one of.
[20:49] 439 Linden. All right, tell us about that one, please.
[20:56] With the parameters of the whole home sitting.
[21:00] In its existing appointment, except for the.
[21:05] Eastern end of this.
[21:08] There's a small structure on the southeast corner of this.
[21:12] That will be removed.
[21:15] But that same quadrant will.
[21:18] Be added to the entire back, the east, entire east side of the.
[21:23] The structure.
[21:25] But not to.
[21:28] Exceed the dimensions.
[21:32] Going east of that existing structure, that will come on.
[21:36] So it's basically the footprint.
[21:39] Of the back home, he's in the structure.
[21:42] Is is where we're we're at this.
[21:45] He's just pushing out the whole back, taking off that little water. Yeah, yeah.
[21:51] So I have a question.
[21:53] So this one it says a non conforming structure shall not be enlarged in a way.
[21:57] That increases its amount of conformity.
[22:00] Why did this not?
[22:01] Save that same comment.
[22:03] Applied to the one before.
[22:05] This one is the whole backside of the.
[22:09] And maybe that one.
[22:11] Could. Could.
[22:12] Maybe that would have been in that one as well.
[22:15] OK, I just want to. I just didn't understand why one would have it and one didn't have.
[22:20] No, I understand what you're saying.
[22:22] OK, this one takes literally the entire house.
[22:25] Adds 4 foot or put something to it, yes.
[22:30] Increasing the size of.
[22:32] First boards I quoted, so it's a relative thing which you decide.
[22:37] Nothing matters but I guess.
[22:39] Wonderful.
[22:43] You know what you're seeing. It obviously is.
[22:45] But I don't know, we always get.
[22:48] It seems like I always get back to that, you know?
[22:52] The limit thing.
[22:53] Dealing with with.
[22:54] You know, they're required to set backs per their rates, which again, I mean the city, of course.
[23:00] Jurisdiction on all.
[23:04] Well, there's nothing behind this one. It's an empty lot.
[23:08] So really, isn't it?
[23:09] I was kind of going back to the comment and the other one.
[23:13] And the other the.
[23:16] Non conformity did not increase.
[23:20] Correct, because the wall stayed.
[23:23] In line with the existing wall so.
[23:26] It's exactly the same nonconformity as it was before. This is adding 443 inches of nonconformity that didn't exist.
[23:36] So.
[23:47] OK. And as far as?
[23:49] Correspondence. I see there's.
[23:52] Several documented several pieces of documentation here.
[23:56] Any notable support or?
[23:59] Objections to.
[24:01] No, there was, I think it was.
[24:04] One thoughtful person was just.
[24:06] Brought up a question of.
[24:07] Drainage.
[24:09] Which is.
[24:10] Always addressed them.
[24:12] The final building.
[24:15] Well, also the sandstone walk.
[24:17] So I want to ask that you not disturb this.
[24:22] It'll be OK.
[24:26] You better not or this guy.
[24:37] It looks looks that way.
[24:40] The one letter that they were, they're not.
[24:42] Right next door or anything, it's a ways away.
[24:45] Yeah, that's that's the only thing I.
[24:47] I was confused.
[24:48] I was too, but but looking at this, yeah, they're not.
[24:51] It doesn't look like they're an adjoining property.
[24:55] I was worried about the electrical.
[25:00] Or is it really hard these?
[25:03] And there's that we have.
[25:06] He said wo.
[25:08] He's a woman, so it was a.
[25:11] The person they wrote just like well, the notes they're back lot line of what's this property so they're adjacent but they.
[25:21] Hope so, although it appeared in a.
[25:25] Although it appears that there's no.
[25:28] Nothing behind the house.
[25:30] This lot of bucks in that direction.
[25:41] No further questions for me.
[25:45] Are there any comments or questions from audience members regarding?
[25:49] 439.
[25:50] Linden St.
[25:51] I don't know St.
[25:57] Seeing as there are none.
[25:59] I will make a.
[26:02] A motion for zoning district Rs.
[26:05] 1280.072.
[26:08] A non conforming structure shall not be enlarged in a way.
[26:11] Which increases its nonconformity and.
[26:15] To allow.
[26:17] A variance for that.
[26:19] Also section twelve, 7009.
[26:22] E2B.
[26:24] Minimum rear yard of 30 feet with a proposal of 6 feet for a variance of 24 feet.
[26:32] One second. Any further discussion from the board?
[26:38] Folks, Phillips.
[26:40] Yes, Brady.
[26:43] Motion carried.
[26:47] Enjoy the rest of you as well.
[26:55] Louis Duso.
[26:59] I get that right.
[27:00] Do those? Yes Sir.
[27:02] I'm actually George Douglas, 36344 Mills Rd. Avon, OH.
[27:08] Amen. We're requesting 2 variances. The first one is to increase the fence from the standard 7 foot tall to a.
[27:16] Talk. And that's for two reasons.
[27:21] The fence is located on the West side of the property development of Eagle View Homes.
[27:25] We're looking to obstruct the view of Napa and the automotive company that is there now.
[27:32] The extra.
[27:33] At the Anglo example definitely cut down on most of the views that we have there.
[27:38] Cutting down the views of the building and the cards that are there. The 4th John dumpster title.
[27:44] The other reason for the hike that we feel can also help on sound deadening.
[27:48] Being an automotive company and repair shop that run the vehicles, testing engines and all that kind of stuff.
[27:55] That's the reason behind our push request.
[27:58] The second request we have is we're requesting to put the finished side of the fence.
[28:02] Facing the development rather than.
[28:05] The automotive company.
[28:07] And that's just simply for the aesthetics.
[28:11] So in a nutshell, very simple, those are two variances that we're requesting this evening.
[28:15] Where is the gentleman's house that is opposing?
[28:18] The I was not aware of.
[28:21] Anybody posing? But I did get stuck by the train so I got here a few minutes late.
[28:25] Do we know where the stones houses?
[28:31] So he's on.
[28:35] 624.
[28:38] 624 Gilford, Yeah. So that's on the east side of the property.
[28:44] And that's your word relevance that would have on the list.
[28:47] And there'll be no sense on that.
[28:49] There'll be no friends on the East side.
[28:51] No, you have most of the fences on the east side were already in place.
[28:55] Either by homeowners or us.
[28:58] So a lot of that Eastside property has a fence on it, everybody.
[29:07] And you've talked to?
[29:08] Your neighbors talk to Napa, They don't have a problem.
[29:24] So it's the correspondence.
[29:27] From the individual they maybe perhaps just read the the application request.
[29:34] Just, you know, it's on the fence, I guess.
[29:38] I mean, is it?
[29:40] I guess we're supposed to base things on hardship for the most part.
[29:43] It's not really hardship that you're asking for the extra foot. It's just a convenience. I mean, it's just a nice sense of not
[29:48] seeing what's over there and seeing.
[29:54] You know, trying to do some sound ending. We have already planted the trees along there and obviously the trees are 16 foot. They
[29:57] take time to fill in.
[30:03] So putting in the fence just kind of gets a really jump on there.
[30:07] OK. Yeah, the Napa property is the only property that would see the unfinished side.
[30:11] Yes, and understandable about the additional height.
[30:19] You know no further questions from.
[30:21] For me, any of the board.
[30:22] I guess I my I would look at them both separately and I do kind of question the.
[30:28] Necessity of.
[30:30] Reversing the face of the fence when?
[30:35] On your side.
[30:37] Is going to be.
[30:38] Covered virtually entirely by the landscaping.
[30:43] And you have the ponds and stuff there, so there's really nobody.
[30:47] You know, looking directly at that.
[30:50] So I could I just.
[30:53] Question that I guess what the necessity of that is?
[30:56] Well, if I could responded there on our side, you're going to have a lot of people looking at the fence.
[31:02] Rather than the move.
[31:05] The pure shock.
[31:07] Anything we put there and that was going to look better from their view because.
[31:11] This is where property is being.
[31:15] That's that's the reason behind it, I mean.
[31:18] Various.
[31:21] There is no residential on that side, is there?
[31:24] It's and you've got Napa.
[31:27] So technically an 8 foot fence could be.
[31:32] Erected on an episode.
[31:35] And then beyond that, you've got the church. The church.
[31:39] And it is.
[31:46] I assume standard posts.
[31:48] Yeah, just a solid.
[31:50] You know, solid fence.
[31:53] One my sixth daughter.
[31:55] Biggest. We saw it all the way across.
[31:59] Rank Woods.
[32:05] I mean it would in the in the future assuming.
[32:07] Maintenance or replacement of pickets needed to occur.
[32:10] I mean like you can.
[32:11] Stay on the.
[32:12] On the residential side.
[32:14] You don't have to cross that an appheside it's true to fix it.
[32:17] It makes sense.
[32:18] Yes, Sir. I'm just curious whether an opposing coordinate board sentence on each side.
[32:26] Might have satisfied the objections and still satisfy the needs of the government.
[32:33] Possibly I'd be.
[32:35] The objections seem to be.
[32:37] Misunderstood.
[32:38] From at least the correspondence, the house that.
[32:40] Made the objection is.
[32:42] Not even.
[32:44] Adjoining the property with the fence. He's going to be on the right side of the fence.
[32:50] Right.
[32:52] He's going to see the right side of us.
[32:55] That really doesn't affect him at all.
[33:02] Yeah, no further questions for me.
[33:06] Any question or comment?
[33:08] From members of the audience on proposal.
[33:13] OK, seeing as there is none I will make.
[33:16] A motion for.
[33:19] But the board prefer to do these.
[33:20] Separately, as you suggested, or.
[33:23] As as one.
[33:27] I'll make a motion. Zoning district R5.
[33:30] 127820982 Maximum fence height of seven feet with a proposal of eight feet.
[33:36] What they requested variance of 1 foot height.
[33:39] Also 127209 H.
[33:41] The finished side of defense.
[33:44] Shall face the adjoining property.
[33:46] With the variance request of the finished side to face.
[33:50] The applicant's property.
[33:54] A second.
[33:55] Any further discussion?
[33:59] Brady.
[34:00] Folks, aye.
[34:02] Phillips Yes. Condi yes. Motion carried.
[34:06] Thank you very much.
[34:07] Thank you.
[34:14] Matthew Miller.
[34:24] Good evening.
[34:29] Could you give us a brief explanation of your proposal this evening?
[34:33] I think you understand what I'm trying to get. I guess I didn't.
[34:37] From the second story.
[34:39] On the top of.
[34:41] And obviously the very set back.
[34:44] In the last there was such a conflict of interest.
[34:47] Just briefly talked to the neighbors on this side.
[34:51] Did not mention.
[34:55] Pork chop back but obviously seem to be really bad and.
[34:59] I thought it would be nice to have a.
[35:01] Screened in porch.
[35:04] As far as that's concerned.
[35:06] I don't want to upset neighbors at the same time.
[35:08] All the neighbors along.
[35:11] Obviously in the house like I had at one point in time.
[35:13] The Lord second story on top of it.
[35:16] You know it's as simple as keeping the same program we have.
[35:19] Maybe extending toward the street more.
[35:23] I'm.
[35:25] Suggestion.
[35:27] That does seem to be the.
[35:28] Principal complaint is extending it farther. Lake Worth.
[35:32] If the.
[35:35] Proposal is both an additional second story and a addition.
[35:39] Lake word. It seems like that was.
[35:42] Aside, I'm not aware of that.
[35:46] We're technically going towards the street more than.
[35:49] Anything outside you, are you already?
[35:51] Encroach and you're going on the 2nd floor, so that's why to mention that.
[36:02] Is out of code.
[36:05] It's along the same line.
[36:09] Suggestions. Things everybody else has.
[36:12] I was going to sit back. My house sits close to the lake and everybody else.
[36:16] There's obviously people that have screening courses, that type of thing.
[36:22] Probably no other way so.
[36:28] Yeah, yeah, it seems to.
[36:29] The main complaint seems to be the.
[36:32] Encroachment lakeward I don't recall seeing a complaint of.
[36:36] Anything of the.
[36:37] The garage addition.
[36:38] I don't know why you couldn't move the garage over and not have the.
[36:42] Variance. You know you've got that little.
[36:47] You know, you drive along the East and then you're not on cold.
[36:52] Not a crisis, you know, but.
[36:54] I'd like to keep that in mind.
[36:56] But you you keep him in line on the other side.
[36:59] Yeah.
[37:00] But I think the porch is a problem.
[37:08] I like to have happy neighbors on both sides.
[37:11] And if it's a symbol of keeping the porch off?
[37:15] I never gave any thought that it would be a problem to build Lakewood, you know.
[37:21] It's not just a portion. I'm sorry. It's not just the Portuguese. The first floor with the porch on top.
[37:27] Right. Yeah, the 4th would be on the second level. It's not.
[37:32] The original structure on the 1st floor just in the elevated porch, correct?
[37:45] There are no walls on the 1st floor under that porch, correct? Or.
[37:50] That's that's or the proposed just an elevated.
[37:53] I didn't, I didn't understand. There is nothing in that space, just a post out in the corner, just.
[38:02] Be clear. My personal suggestion, as you said, and to eliminate it would be.
[38:08] You could just incorporate an enclosed structure on that north.
[38:12] Side of your.
[38:16] I guess rather than the extension, and then you'd still be looking in your existing way on top of the existing.
[38:23] Footprint keeping the same.
[38:25] For the revenue or yeah or over your.
[38:29] A lot of players Garage edition to extend that second floor to the to the South without having.
[38:37] But I would go further, you know.
[38:41] It's the north it's problem.
[38:44] You're already sticking out.
[38:47] Yeah.
[38:49] Yeah.
[38:52] Then I looked at line of sight too and.
[38:57] You lose there.
[39:02] So seeing I'm sorry, I was going to ask Tony. There's no problem with him going taking that a little bit further.
[39:08] South.
[39:10] And taking that house for yourself.
[39:13] Which would move the garage.
[39:15] No, I don't believe so. You know, in the Rs.
[39:20] Front yard setback.
[39:22] 30 feet or.
[39:23] Right.
[39:27] Yeah.
[39:28] Yeah, I mean like everybody's else.
[39:29] Houses and rod and way farther.
[39:39] Yeah, keeping the same.
[39:41] Footprint and justice incorporating a.
[39:44] Let's say.
[39:51] So with that in mind, in the.
[39:54] Discussion of a modified and resubmitted proposals, that's something that we would need to.
[40:00] Vote on and vote.
[40:01] Down tonight, Is that something that could be withdrawn? Is that what's the?
[40:04] What you could do?
[40:06] The words of Jesus.
[40:08] Is you could just fail the 1st.
[40:12] Request or, I'm sorry, the second.
[40:15] Which is the rear yard set back?
[40:17] But you could.
[40:18] So approve the sidelight set back and that would give his.
[40:22] Garages, OK.
[40:25] And then you could resubmit a proposal for the.
[40:28] Addition on the.
[40:29] The home itself, I don't know. I don't know that I would need a variance at that point.
[40:36] Is the.
[40:37] House already non conforming.
[40:39] Just outside you're not yard.
[40:42] OK. What building is it wouldn't increase that.
[40:46] Oh wait, OK, so building upward does not count as increasing and on conformal structure.
[40:56] Like if I just remove the screen in a porch off the back.
[40:59] I guess that would be my request at this point.
[41:02] Just remove the screen and porch off the rear yard.
[41:06] Yeah, I guess that would be my request at this point, you know, and if we can get one of our setback, it may not be.
[41:12] It would require an instrumental or building permit portion.
[41:15] But it may not require new variance.
[41:18] If you would approve the footprint that I'm proposing now.
[41:21] Minus the porch off the back.
[41:22] So if we approve the the side yard set back.
[41:26] And he decides to go forward with that.
[41:29] Cover that.
[41:30] Would cover in addition.
[41:33] Technically, you probably need to come back.
[41:37] For enlargement.
[41:40] Because what the code says is.
[41:43] You can't add on or enlarge.
[41:46] A non conforming structure. The non conforming. It's a non conforming structure because it sits.
[41:51] Too close to.
[41:56] So you're enlarging that, you're adding to that.
[41:59] Technically, he should probably come back.
[42:01] For the board, zone appeals just to be.
[42:07] You might, in your motion be able to.
[42:10] Conflict. That is the.
[42:13] Side yard.
[42:14] Variance would extend to any lawful structure on promise of.
[42:20] And there is a possibility, I don't know if you're building a garage.
[42:25] Punch 15 feet towards the garage but.
[42:29] That is the thing I would ask is can I, can I move that?
[42:33] Can I move that?
[42:35] Structure packaging. Let's see in the 10 feet.
[42:37] The ground southward and extend the garage here the 10 feet southward.
[42:41] Well, I think Tony said you already.
[42:43] You know, he's he's good as far as set back in the front yard.
[42:47] OK, Yeah.
[42:52] But I'm thinking that I moved a whole new garage.
[42:56] 10 feet toward the street side of the facility. He's got six, Yeah.
[42:59] My yeah, close it it it seems as though that wouldn't require variance. I I would air with Tony that it.
[43:07] Probably the question or the proposal that I would make right now is.
[43:12] If I choose to move back that screen report during the existing program area.
[43:17] And move the garage 10 feet to the South.
[43:19] If that falls in the.
[43:22] Parameters of.
[43:24] OK, penis. You know, I think just the location of the house itself being at one side is.
[43:32] Non conforming as far as the side yard set back I think.
[43:37] Almost any construction would fall under that whatnot.
[43:39] I think as Councilman tested, I think you can make the approval.
[43:43] For the side yard set back.
[43:45] Up to and up to the legal front yard back.
[43:49] OK.
[43:52] OK. And allowing that enlargement of the known nonconformity?
[43:57] Correct. OK.
[43:59] So that the.
[44:00] The first one.
[44:02] Side yard I put.
[44:03] Be what that?
[44:04] Caveat applies to.
[44:06] Allowing it to go to the store.
[44:08] To the selfless as legal eliminating this one.
[44:11] And then rear yard would be.
[44:13] Poker down, yes.
[44:14] OK, or or remove? Yeah, he said. But I may, I may look at.
[44:21] Drawing the print of it and seeing if I can incorporate into the existing footprint.
[44:27] Well, I would have to go through building anyway, OK.
[44:32] OK, OK.
[44:33] So with that the.
[44:35] What is still?
[44:36] Before us is.
[44:38] Twelve, 7009 E 2.
[44:40] Twelve, 7009 E 2B is being.
[44:44] Voluntarily withdrawn.
[44:47] OK.
[44:50] I think so.
[44:52] Are there any members of the audience that would like to speak on this proposal this evening?
[44:58] Support.
[45:00] Hi, I'm Dan Derrick. I live at 352 Edgewater.
[45:06] Tom, I want to give this a few pending documents.
[45:10] The share?
[45:15] I spent the time on this and.
[45:18] Talk about it.
[45:19] So I don't have a problem with bumping up but the porch again.
[45:23] If you look a page number.
[45:26] The second page it shows.
[45:27] You know, the deck falling off the house.
[45:30] And according to law and the page #3 shows.
[45:33] That he's literally got 6 feet of property in the back of his house that's been eroded and we're left 6 feet over the property.
[45:40] So according to law, his backyard line is set at six feet approximately from the house at ODR.
[45:46] Is under control of that land right now.
[45:49] So technically.
[45:50] The rear set back that he's got drawn and he probably just pulled from the county maps and just did a measure on that. So
[45:53] technically his rear set back rears.
[45:58] Lines about 6 to 8 feet off the property. We've got visual of that with Dan Barnes, the neighbor.
[46:03] Who actually went in with these people to build that brake wall? They did get permits from owning our to build that brake wall.
[46:09] So again.
[46:10] Once you lose your land, it's a road it away, you don't get it back.
[46:13] The law It's now under control of ODNR.
[46:16] Even when you fill it back in.
[46:18] So.
[46:19] Again, this this drawing is wrong with the rear yard.
[46:21] So but now that he's pulling back on the on the property.
[46:25] You know, I'm fine with that. I just want to let people know that.
[46:28] Where they really are set back probably is.
[46:30] So the very property line is.
[46:32] And the other thing I'm a little upset about too, that.
[46:35] You falsely put on there that you contact me. I've never met you before.
[46:42] The application stated that.
[46:45] Is to mention neighbors.
[46:46] To bomb or what did it say? It said to notify, notify.
[46:52] But it says write down the ones that you have notified and shared these documents.
[46:59] And I just let the neighbors on there.
[47:03] You know, if you want to just.
[47:05] Right. And I've done multiple projects in the area besides my house, three other projects, I've always gone to the neighbors and
[47:07] talk to them.
[47:11] Because it just makes for I guess I was more concerned about the neighbors on both sides. I didn't mention them that were building
[47:15] up but did not mention the screen.
[47:25] Thank you here to try to be me.
[47:29] Thank you.
[47:30] Thanks. Thank you.
[47:33] All right. Are there any?
[47:39] Comments or questions from members of the audience on this proposal tonight?
[47:46] OK, so seeing as there are none.
[47:50] And in light of the voluntary withdrawing second proposal or rear yard set back.
[47:58] I will make a proposal for.
[48:00] Zoning district RS127V.
[48:03] .09 E 2C.
[48:06] A minimum side yard set back of 6 feet with a proposal of.
[48:10] 4 feet 1 inches for a requested variance of.
[48:13] 1 foot 11 inches.
[48:16] With the understanding that that applies to the.
[48:19] Future structures, future lawful.
[48:21] Structures.
[48:24] And in enlarging the structure up to the legal limit.
[48:29] Of the.
[48:30] Southern.
[48:34] I'll second.
[48:36] Is there any further discussion?
[48:41] Brady.
[48:43] Phillips, Yes.
[48:45] Aye, Wendy, Yes. Motion carried.
[48:48] Thank you very much.
[48:55] And a representative of Frontier Land Group.
[49:20] Good evening everybody, and this Mark Holtz.
[49:23] With Country Land Group addresses 25700 Science Park Dr. Cleveland, OH.
[49:29] It's going to be with God. I just want to give a little background.
[49:32] About uh.
[49:33] There we go who we are, we we presented the other night in planning so.
[49:39] From the audience, I apologize for the but.
[49:41] Just want to give a little background. This is the first time we're working in Vermilion, but we are a full service residential
[49:44] land development company.
[49:48] We specialize in single family residential developments.
[49:51] We do all the entitlement work with all the infrastructure in the ground, the roads.
[49:57] Curbs, gutters, common areas, sidewalks, etcetera and partner with national builders that come in and build houses on the on the
[50:00] subdivision.
[50:05] I've been doing this. I'm owner of the company. I've been doing this since my 25th year.
[50:09] Developed thousands of lots. We currently have over 500 lots in development in Northeast Ohio.
[50:14] In five different columns right now.
[50:17] They're two announcement one Karma 1 and Shard 1 Green 28 Township.
[50:23] So does that mean you?
[50:24] Sell the lots to the builders. We partner with the builders. But yeah, we.
[50:29] I would like to say the highest we go is the curves.
[50:31] And then the builder.
[50:33] Goes viral. So we do all the horizontal construction and the builder does it and usually go with one builder. We go with one
[50:35] builder.
[50:41] And we, we primarily work with national builders.
[50:44] That would be like.
[50:46] Dr. Wharton, Ryan Holmes, Kobe and Pulte Drees.
[50:50] We do not have a builder tied to this subdivision right now. There's been a lot of interest, but we don't have a builder type.
[50:59] So if I little overview the subject property, I'm not going to read off the parcel number but.
[51:04] It's up here on the screen. It's 53 acres.
[51:06] The property is currently zoned R4 and R4A.
[51:10] And our plan is to develop under cluster subdivisions chapter 1278, which is a conditional.
[51:17] Permitted use in both districts.
[51:19] And the reason that I'm here before you tonight?
[51:21] We're not seeking any other variances, it's just the application of the cluster subdivision chapter 1278 to the parcels.
[51:28] So we're not looking for anything above and beyond that.
[51:31] And as I mentioned, we're proposing a single family detached neighborhood similar and characteristic to the surrounding
[51:34] neighborhood.
[51:38] So the project aligns with the intent of the cluster subdivision district.
[51:43] The bold.
[51:45] Look the bold words that are taken almost verbatim from what the.
[51:48] The cluster subdivision.
[51:50] Intent is.
[51:51] So we are going to maintain natural elements. Our plant preserves nearly all of the elements that exist on the site, which is the
[51:55] wetlands and the floodplain.
[51:59] It's to maintain population density. We're actually designed 44% below the maximum density that's allowed.
[52:06] Under R4 and R4A.
[52:09] The one of the main drivers of the cluster subdivision is to lessen development costs and thereby.
[52:15] Providing more affordable house to the future homeowner.
[52:18] And so.
[52:19] By going to the cluster subdivision, we're able to.
[52:22] Modestly reduce the lot sizes that are allowable under this district.
[52:26] Which drives down the construction costs, which ultimately drives down price a lot, which ultimately drives down the prices of
[52:29] house.
[52:33] And then less lighter in.
[52:35] Means less associated costs from the homers, what we're finding.
[52:39] Because affordability has become such a big issue with.
[52:42] With homeownership, what we're finding everywhere we go is.
[52:44] Homeowners want smaller loss because they want less to maintain.
[52:47] They're looking for any way they can't do to make their.
[52:51] Home more affordable time.
[52:53] And then finally is to provide common area open space.
[52:56] And our plan preserves nearly 45% of the site as common area in open state. So we're not.
[53:03] We're not packing in every single house that we possibly can. We're still.
[53:06] Preserving about 24 acres of the site.
[53:09] Is that depicted on the Earth?
[53:11] Layout And there's the layout.
[53:14] So it's 119 lot subdivision and this this got approval planning.
[53:20] I think it was 2 weeks ago for a second.
[53:21] September 7th.
[53:23] So 119 lots. Typical plot size is 56 by 1:30, which is.
[53:28] Means the 20% reduction that's allowed under the.
[53:32] Cluster subdivision language.
[53:34] We anticipate the homes being in the 12120.
[53:37] 400 square foot range.
[53:39] Selling in the mid three hundreds.
[53:41] Potential for both single family and.
[53:44] I'm sorry for a single story then two-story houses.
[53:47] We're finding that.
[53:49] About what we're seeing.
[53:51] The last few years in our subdivisions is about 1/3.
[53:54] Of the people that buy are will have.
[53:58] Children that are school aged.
[54:00] And then 2/3 do not and of those 2/3 what happened in one?
[54:04] Single story living.
[54:05] So they want like a first floor primary or master of the first floor.
[54:09] Substantial retention. Positive stormwater. Stormwater management control systems.
[54:14] There will be public roads, there will be an HOA that is responsible for maintaining all of the common area.
[54:20] And the stormwater management system.
[54:22] And as I mentioned, 20 of the 53 acre parcel, we're leaving 24 acres of open space, which is about 45%.
[54:29] Of the site, almost all of the wetlands.
[54:31] Are preserved.
[54:33] We this current plan called less for less than 1/2 acre impacts.
[54:38] But you can see that the shaded Gray area there's, there's a considerable amount of wetlands that we're avoiding and floodplain
[54:41] that we're also with.
[54:46] And with that, I wouldn't worry about any questions.
[54:50] So that's how you get the density though.
[54:52] You, you, you do smaller lots and you can get away with that because you.
[54:58] And wetlands and stuff, you can't. You can't build them and grow, so you're taking land you can't build on in.
[55:05] Using that to.
[55:07] Any more density than we would have gotten to the R 48?
[55:12] But because because of the wetlands, because the wetlands and because of the affordability, because you're.
[55:18] Yeah.
[55:22] And if we the smaller lot size means less development cost.
[55:25] Unless development cost needs a less expensive lot.
[55:28] Which then leads to less expensive house for the end user.
[55:30] So in the area that you're actually developing your rhythm, increased density.
[55:35] It's just over the whole parcel. There is not.
[55:38] It's it's an increased density because of the 20% reduction they're permitted on that size.
[55:46] But that's that's already within.
[55:49] Allowable with our approval.
[55:52] Correct. And if there weren't to that point, if they're worth the wetlands, we could fit 44% more homes there. We're not doing.
[56:04] The roads going in here to.
[56:06] To the north, is that also one thing to connect to an established Rd. there on the east, or is that the only Rd. in and out of?
[56:12] This proposal.
[56:13] As of right now, that's the only Rd. in and out of the proposed because that's the only Rd. that.
[56:18] Is connected to this 53 acre parcel.
[56:21] It's one of the things I talked about in planning.
[56:23] A couple weeks ago is that.
[56:25] The previous.
[56:26] You know, whenever this was done, I think.
[56:29] 60 years ago.
[56:31] They should have had better city planning. Had two sub streets going into a 53 acre parcel. They only had one sub St.
[56:37] So we have the stubs going out east and West and we are.
[56:42] Working to try and expand that but.
[56:44] As of right now, that's all that's there we are.
[56:48] Per planning request, we are doing traffic study to show the impact of.
[56:52] These 119 homes on the arteries around the.
[56:54] Surrounding neighborhood.
[56:56] And that's one of my.
[56:57] Primary concern is just.
[56:59] State in of the roads is.
[57:02] They may be the same.
[57:03] Roads that were there 60 years ago, that just the increased traffic that.
[57:07] Is there any?
[57:09] Plan or or even advocacy for improvement of the existing roads that lead into this. We've had, we've had extensive conversations
[57:13] with the mayor about that and we're working on it.
[57:18] Parallel with the subject again it affects 2 things we have.
[57:21] It's not just the condition of the roads for the residents that are there in the city. It's also the entryway to a new
[57:25] subdivision. So it's important to us because.
[57:28] From a marketability standpoint, we want people to.
[57:31] You know, you know, would be driving into a nice station. So we're we're we.
[57:36] We met with the mayor, we've had conversations and those conversations around.
[57:40] Valley Deuce had storm water in.
[57:43] Sewer problems.
[57:45] Are you going to are your service going to add to their problems or are you going to bypass or under retention basins will take
[57:49] some will take this.
[57:54] Yeah, I mean, so.
[57:56] I spoke piece of planning we.
[57:58] When that's something when that subdivision was designed to stormwater regulations that are currently in place or.
[58:03] Either non existent or much more relaxed in the arts and in fact there is no retention on in that entire neighborhood.
[58:09] So Ohio's stormwater regulations.
[58:11] Are very stringent. We have to collect all of.
[58:15] The rainwater all runoff.
[58:17] Off of roofs and Purvis area, we have to collect all that we have to run into the right way.
[58:21] We.
[58:22] We're not in engineering yet because we're just in the preliminary approval stages, but.
[58:26] We made a commitment that we're going to wrap the water elsewhere.
[58:31] Basically that creep down the side and avoid sending water to the.
[58:35] It doesn't tell me OK.
[58:37] We, one of them is numbers in our business is that people say, well, I'm already flooding and I already add more houses, it's
[58:42] going to get worse. It's actually the opposite because right now the water goes wherever it wants to go.
[58:46] We're going to the state of Ohio. The Ohio he did.
[58:49] Requires us to collect all that water and then.
[58:51] Robert down in 100 year storm.
[58:54] Calculation and.
[58:55] Let it triple out and.
[58:57] We we find that.
[58:59] I can almost guarantee that.
[59:02] Flooding gets better with a new subdivision it doesn't get.
[59:06] If it's engineered properly and I'm confident of an engineer.
[59:09] And what about the sanitary food? About the?
[59:12] That's, I mean there's capacity and that's managed by the county and.
[59:17] It's not. That's not an issue.
[59:19] You mentioned that you guys can build to the brown level curve, whatever.
[59:25] And it's making a question both for you and.
[59:30] For the actual design, size etcetera of the homes, is that just?
[59:34] Go through.
[59:36] Building permit request process to ensure it now meets.
[59:40] The requirements of.
[59:42] The sizes and such.
[59:44] OK. Or whoever was going to do the home design or?
[59:50] Yeah, but that's why so we're not requesting any other variances. The builder will meet all rear yard, side yard, so.
[1:00:00] OK, I mean, I.
[1:00:01] And what I guess maybe he's.
[1:00:03] It's more the.
[1:00:05] Building department and.
[1:00:07] Learning to police that than you, but I presume when you're entering an agreement you would.
[1:00:13] Taking an active role one year. German.
[1:00:16] Yeah, I mean there's, there's many layers of checks and balances in place.
[1:00:20] No one better than the cities building department.
[1:00:22] But you have to remember until the last lot sells.
[1:00:25] My names on it and I make sure that the builders are.
[1:00:29] When we just dealt with an issue today, part about noise.
[1:00:32] Noise ordinance and we.
[1:00:33] Handle it and it's.
[1:00:35] It's my reputation alone, so.
[1:00:38] So our only job is to allow them to.
[1:00:41] Fill smaller lots.
[1:00:43] In the art form.
[1:00:45] Yes, it's not even a small, it's just the conditional use that's.
[1:00:49] Outline.
[1:00:51] Here, aligns with the intent of the district.
[1:00:56] The 20% reduction have you approved by Council?
[1:00:59] So you're not even looking at that. What you're looking at is the condition.
[1:01:04] Approval, OK.
[1:01:06] I I'm just a little confused why? Why is it a conditional use if it's in the R4 and it's not?
[1:01:11] The densities not changed.
[1:01:14] Is it the lot size has? Yeah. What's making it a conditional use?
[1:01:19] I prefer to be a cluster subdivision which does reduce the size of a lot.
[1:01:24] That's why the condition.
[1:01:27] And if it wasn't a.
[1:01:32] And the cluster subdivision allows for a 20% reduction which takes it down to 5060.
[1:01:38] Ironically, the house size will be pretty close to the same.
[1:01:42] Because, you know, like I said, the end user wants the smaller the smaller lot. They want less grass to cut, less to maintain.
[1:01:49] But the house is going to be very similar.
[1:01:52] To what they would blend, they'd just be building that same size house in a much larger lot with more resident.
[1:01:57] And there would be closer to probably the.
[1:02:00] Set maps required by code then.
[1:02:03] Is this wetlands going to be usable land?
[1:02:06] For the homeowners.
[1:02:09] No, it's not, however.
[1:02:12] We're exploring walking trails.
[1:02:14] Park benches, things like that. But no.
[1:02:16] They're wet, they're protected. They're finally protected.
[1:02:20] So they're not. They're not.
[1:02:21] Usable, but.
[1:02:22] People can walk.
[1:02:23] Around it almost becomes like.
[1:02:27] But what we, what we do is we work with our builders, you know, once the, once we select the builder, the builder has an idea of
[1:02:31] the demographic they're trying to attract there.
[1:02:35] If it's younger, if it's older, if there's kids, there's no kids, it's 55, whatever it is. And then they're going to design
[1:02:38] something, they're not going to put a.
[1:02:41] You know a.
[1:02:43] Skate park in if they're going after a 55 and over Democrats.
[1:02:48] So they we work with the building.
[1:02:51] Basically what the board is approving is the cluster subdivision use.
[1:02:55] Council will have to approve the 20% reduction.
[1:02:58] OK, so 2 steps in in that process.
[1:03:03] But.
[1:03:04] To in order to approve the 20% reduction, Council approve the 20% reduction.
[1:03:08] VCA has to approve.
[1:03:12] OK, it's actually three steps as we went to planning, already got approval of the sentence here and then we'll go to Council.
[1:03:20] Yes, Sir.
[1:03:21] Theoretically, as I understand it.
[1:03:24] Subject to the wetlands.
[1:03:26] They could. The 53 acres filled up to about 200.
[1:03:32] In doing the cluster, they're making smaller lots, but they're actually reducing the number of units down the line.
[1:03:40] So it's actually less intense than the.
[1:03:45] But they they're doing it by using.
[1:03:49] That's great. And you said the traffic study is?
[1:03:52] In Palestine process.
[1:03:55] And that if I'm, if I'm completely candid, that's that's my primary concern is just not seeing what the impact would be.
[1:04:00] Be one way and one way, one way out.
[1:04:03] That's why, that's why.
[1:04:04] Planning approved it.
[1:04:05] Well recommended we got PCA but knowing that.
[1:04:09] The traffic study was submitted by the time the final approval position.
[1:04:12] Yeah, what in one out is kind of scary.
[1:04:14] Yeah.
[1:04:16] I went there. We can only work with what we have. Yeah, we actually explored buying a house and seeing if we can knock it, you
[1:04:19] know, but.
[1:04:22] It's just not.
[1:04:23] We, like I said, we are working on both East and West to try and make.
[1:04:27] Connector roads.
[1:04:30] The city planners that predate.
[1:04:32] All of us the.
[1:04:34] 53 acre parcel should have had.
[1:04:36] Two, if not 3.
[1:04:38] Stop streets leading into it.
[1:04:39] Yeah, yeah.
[1:04:41] I don't know why it didn't happen, but we can only we can only play the handler development. You're in a challenging spot, no?
[1:04:47] No doubt, but nonetheless I.
[1:04:50] I would feel comfortable seeing the traffic study before.
[1:04:53] And before any density of lot size, just knowing that one way and one way out.
[1:04:58] One way streets can get.
[1:04:59] Nicole Granola, The State of the streets as the art.
[1:05:04] I maybe I missed a a timeline assuming everything is approved.
[1:05:09] What would the timeline be of this?
[1:05:11] Development occurring.
[1:05:12] Play Construction probably won't take place in the summer next year.
[1:05:16] There's not even a place for an emergency entrance and exit like for fire trucks or something like that as a second infamous.
[1:05:26] I mean that would be.
[1:05:28] I guess in my little world, in my world, I just having one St. out of, you know.
[1:05:35] Just makes me.
[1:05:36] I'm not, I'm not trying to be combative, I'm asking a question because of process but.
[1:05:41] Planning there, they reviewed it and.
[1:05:45] I was there for two hours.
[1:05:47] This is strictly.
[1:05:49] To apply the cluster.
[1:05:52] I'm just making that statement for me personally.
[1:05:55] I just want to make sure I understand that.
[1:05:57] Comfortable.
[1:05:59] Yeah, and that's right. The Fire Chief spoke on every half at the planning meeting saying great to have, but we don't have any
[1:06:03] issue with the one form of receipts and he stood right here and said that.
[1:06:09] Any ETN when the traffic study? I know they're probably not an overnight deal.
[1:06:14] They said four weeks.
[1:06:17] Yeah, it is in process.
[1:06:20] And, umm.
[1:06:21] They, they, we have stressed to them the urgency of it.
[1:06:25] So the original said six weeks. We stressed urgency. They said OK, we'll do it for four weeks.
[1:06:41] Any further questions or comment from the board before we open up to the audience? Are there any members of the audience who would
[1:06:44] like to speak on this proposal this evening?
[1:06:48] Yes Sir, please support.
[1:06:53] Sir, I'm going to.
[1:06:57] Appreciate it very much.
[1:07:00] Sir, I'm going to read you the the oath that we give the audience at the beginning if you just raise your right hand and repeat
[1:07:03] after me before.
[1:07:07] You proceed.
[1:07:10] I do solemnly swear to speak truthfully.
[1:07:13] If you repeat the word yeah.
[1:07:18] Of course we do solemnly swear to speak truthfully.
[1:07:22] I solemnly swear to speak truthfully.
[1:07:24] During the proceeding of this evenings meeting.
[1:07:29] So help me God.
[1:07:31] Thank you very much. And could you state your name and address for the record?
[1:07:35] I live at 4917 Hollywood Drive.
[1:07:40] You're making me do my government work.
[1:07:44] So I want to go to a few things so we can discuss and then for three items.
[1:07:53] That I came across.
[1:07:55] One it says when it's going board meeting in the small city.
[1:07:59] The 4th acts as a body for disputes.
[1:08:02] Over decisions made by the city zoning administration.
[1:08:06] Such as contested maps.
[1:08:08] Or interception.
[1:08:10] Well, I'll struggle with that.
[1:08:13] OK, yeah, call your work.
[1:08:16] Yeah, of course.
[1:08:17] This is Marshmallow, which you see on the screen up here.
[1:08:20] OK, He's going to have about 150 homes.
[1:08:23] Plus in there.
[1:08:25] And this was all forced to drive going into the field.
[1:08:28] There used to be Novantis property.
[1:08:30] I'm sure it used to be slowest property.
[1:08:32] And the body created through.
[1:08:35] Vendors property.
[1:08:36] All the water from the highway.
[1:08:39] Route 2 all came down to the district behind.
[1:08:42] Value enrolled on how they can drive, How to do drive.
[1:08:45] For shooting right.
[1:08:47] And that calls for 20 flooding problems slow.
[1:08:50] Oliver down and it became just a fuel out there.
[1:08:54] OK, but a question I have here is.
[1:08:57] Drawing right here. This is the company that I had back in 19.
[1:09:04] Poor It was 2007.
[1:09:08] And this is proposal.
[1:09:09] 200 songs.
[1:09:11] That were built back in error.
[1:09:12] Not, not ours. OK, this is not good.
[1:09:15] Somebody else This was turned down by the Township because there was no.
[1:09:19] Egress and ingress coming in out of that property.
[1:09:23] All right, the problem on this property right here is.
[1:09:26] And my question is.
[1:09:28] All these properties along how they can drive.
[1:09:30] I'm sure what they're what that's.
[1:09:33] Probably because of the ditch.
[1:09:35] And Marsh.
[1:09:37] Drawing in here.
[1:09:38] There's no wetlands or woman that Halloween gifts at all.
[1:09:42] And I guess is that the Planning Board Commission, you know, how can you just say the wetlands today and they're not wetlands?
[1:09:48] The wetlands judiciary, not wetlands today.
[1:09:51] And the gentleman from the city whose name I don't even know what it was.
[1:09:57] No idea, I said this was made by KS.
[1:10:00] Engineering Institute for.
[1:10:02] He said I don't work.
[1:10:04] And so kind of, you know.
[1:10:07] And he says, well, he says.
[1:10:09] The land is now part of the city.
[1:10:12] But the ditch behind all of you?
[1:10:14] I love you and force you.
[1:10:16] All becomes the property owners decision to do what they want to do.
[1:10:20] And I don't think that's right because the city has maintained that ditch.
[1:10:24] Since 74 when I moved into that house.
[1:10:27] They came and cleaned it out the first three years because of.
[1:10:31] I told the Planning Commission you could take a.
[1:10:35] On the corner of Stanford and Hollywood actually floated the new down there, which some kids did.
[1:10:40] Just to kind of show off in here, but how deep the water it was.
[1:10:45] Now the city claims that it's not their dish. They said it was.
[1:10:48] Of the town through the Township.
[1:10:50] I called the service. I called the Township.
[1:10:54] Township says the county.
[1:10:56] I call the county. The county seat was the city.
[1:10:59] So we are concerned about the footing problem on this ditch.
[1:11:02] Back in there, we're concerned about the wetlands.
[1:11:05] When I say we, I'm speaking for the people on the street to ask me to come St. tonight.
[1:11:09] OK now not all my opinions but.
[1:11:12] Most of them across the board.
[1:11:15] It says on #2 the governor public hearing.
[1:11:20] Please provide a first for community members.
[1:11:23] Develop.
[1:11:24] And the stakeholders present.
[1:11:26] Opinions concerned with support for proposed project.
[1:11:29] Of change well.
[1:11:31] We're concerned about egress and egress and all that property.
[1:11:34] Because if he's got 150 plus homes back there.
[1:11:38] With the average form and pressuring that he's in having two carbs.
[1:11:41] That's almost 300 plus carbs coming out of horse you drive.
[1:11:45] On the Hollywood Drive.
[1:11:48] And the Planning Commission tried to tell me everybody was going to feel right.
[1:11:52] Which is how do we go to the right along Westbrook Rd.
[1:11:55] And I said you're wrong, it's all going to go left.
[1:11:58] Down towards Chandler St.
[1:12:00] Sample St. to the schools and drop their kids off.
[1:12:03] Several streets to talk on Route 16 on Route 2I90.
[1:12:07] Or downtown.
[1:12:09] There's going to be tons and tons of traffic coming down that street.
[1:12:13] We probably got some of the nicest roads.
[1:12:15] On how you do and remind.
[1:12:18] I mean better than probably most roads in the city of.
[1:12:21] We don't want them disrupted.
[1:12:23] Which means, what do you build?
[1:12:26] We talked about this a group.
[1:12:28] That we're talking about trucks.
[1:12:30] What about concrete trucks?
[1:12:32] Lumber trucks.
[1:12:34] City trucks involving utility trucks.
[1:12:36] Everybody coming down there for.
[1:12:39] So we're concerned about the road.
[1:12:41] We're concerned about the instance before you drive, which was every time the range.
[1:12:46] We're concerned about the Dirich behind the house.
[1:12:48] We're concerned about the number of.
[1:12:51] Being built highest.
[1:12:53] It also says by applying zoning rules, the board helps balance individual property rights.
[1:12:59] And it's really interesting talking.
[1:13:01] Healthy and mortgage growth.
[1:13:04] Well, I'm concerned about the judge.
[1:13:06] I'm concerned about the roads.
[1:13:08] I'm concerned about the homes being built.
[1:13:10] I think.
[1:13:12] I'm asking. I think the zoning Commission should take one step at a time.
[1:13:17] The biggest concern on the street is the dish.
[1:13:20] And Sir, if I could.
[1:13:22] If I could just notify we.
[1:13:24] Have asked the audience to keep it to 5 minutes. You're after 5 minutes. I'm happy to give you another moment or two, but just
[1:13:27] just to let you know that you're at that time.
[1:13:33] The wetlands, second of all.
[1:13:37] The world interests in and out of it the development.
[1:13:40] And the roads on politics.
[1:13:43] Thank you.
[1:13:45] Can I respond or you want to please?
[1:13:49] OK, so first it's.
[1:13:51] 119 homes, not 150.
[1:13:54] Wetlands. Wetlands grow, wetlands shrink, wetlands dye, wetlands get worse. We hired ATW that are very wetland consultant. We did
[1:13:59] a wetland walk. It's been submitted to the.
[1:14:05] I don't know why.
[1:14:07] There were weapons on that map in 2004 and they're not today. But.
[1:14:11] We use a certified wetland consultant to.
[1:14:13] Work with the Army Corps of Engineers to get the weapons verified.
[1:14:18] I discussed the flooding already.
[1:14:21] I committed to Ross at the planning meeting that we are going to deal with that.
[1:14:25] I don't know what it's like. It's like a.
[1:14:29] Box culverts. There's a giant culvert that's in his rear yard that.
[1:14:33] We said that we would look at as part of our engineering.
[1:14:35] That's something that happens.
[1:14:37] Once we get approval, it's an engineering related item. It's not something that we could even begin to tackle right now because of
[1:14:40] Storm.
[1:14:43] Water calculations and things like that.
[1:14:47] We the road conditions. I spoke to this planning too. What we always do is a practice for our company as we videotape the.
[1:14:55] The existing road conditions.
[1:14:57] We also, depending on the stage requirements, we typically post a depositor bond.
[1:15:02] For for the road, we work with the.
[1:15:05] Police and fire for a haul route for construction vehicles.
[1:15:09] Once the subdivision is done, we then review the road and fix anything that needs to be fixed that is above and beyond.
[1:15:15] That's what that our initial video did is for.
[1:15:17] We do that through bonding, we do it through deposits, we do it through inspections. So it's nothing that we.
[1:15:22] We're used to it. We do another city that we work in and I don't see why everyone.
[1:15:26] Would be any different?
[1:15:27] And then finally, I just my partner Jerry, remind me that we we have to go as a procedural thing. We have to go back to planning.
[1:15:35] For final.
[1:15:36] And that was subject to the traffic review.
[1:15:39] The traffic study.
[1:15:40] So, umm.
[1:15:41] But we can't go to council without.
[1:15:43] Easy eggs, so they're not happening in parallel. I misspoke when I.
[1:15:46] I thought they were in peril of this. It's it's a procedure. So we will go from here to council and then council back to planning
[1:15:50] for final. But the traffic study would be.
[1:15:55] Part of that final decision, right?
[1:15:57] And then planning.
[1:15:58] Would come back to us or does the buck stop with?
[1:16:00] Planning the second time.
[1:16:04] And you said the the construction vehicles?
[1:16:07] There would be a.
[1:16:09] They would not be using the established public roads or they would, but not what I was saying was we typically work with the city
[1:16:13] service department to create a route.
[1:16:17] Where they want those trucks to go.
[1:16:21] So a designated route.
[1:16:22] Yeah, I mean, most likely. Usually what they do is they look at the condition of existing streets and they tell us to go into
[1:16:25] worst ones.
[1:16:28] You know we're not going to newly paved streets.
[1:16:30] But as I mentioned, we're having conversations about.
[1:16:34] Resurfacing streets in the surrounding areas, so.
[1:16:36] That would happen after the construction. Obviously would be would make sense to do that before we serve construction, but.
[1:16:42] No, we work the service department.
[1:16:44] To create a construction model.
[1:16:46] They're not just driving wherever they want.
[1:16:49] On the streets.
[1:16:50] What we what we would require the reconstruction video.
[1:16:54] And then a post construction video.
[1:17:00] So I guess it confused me a little bit about. I mean, I know.
[1:17:04] We have to approve the conditional use.
[1:17:07] But you know.
[1:17:12] And and and by by approving the conditional uses out of final approval. We still have to go. I know you have to. I know you've
[1:17:17] been planning council.
[1:17:24] Without the conditional use that doesn't necessarily.
[1:17:28] Stop them or someone else from developing the property.
[1:17:32] Some of these same conditions still being an issue.
[1:17:36] Right, but they'd have to do it at R4.
[1:17:40] They they just they just wouldn't do it as a cluster.
[1:17:45] So it could be done with.
[1:17:47] Without us even being involved.
[1:17:49] And circumstance that you know.
[1:17:51] And just in the interest of time, just to give.
[1:17:54] Opportunity for.
[1:17:56] Briefly, Sir.
[1:17:59] I just want to say to you that according to the Planning Commission and the children that work for the City of Examples.
[1:18:06] You again for me that ditch is now all part of.
[1:18:10] The oldest properties that sit on you.
[1:18:14] So I don't know how he comes across the board. I'm not sure. I don't know how he can come across the board and compare.
[1:18:19] Complete the ditch and straighten it all up.
[1:18:22] If you don't know.
[1:18:24] The other thing on the map I showed you from that 2007.
[1:18:30] It was rejected because there was not enough interest in.
[1:18:33] Gross coming in and off the property.
[1:18:35] Thank you.
[1:18:39] On the private property, on the parcel that.
[1:18:42] Looking at.
[1:18:43] It's not a city ditch. We do not take care of it.
[1:18:48] It's on the property that we have under, correct?
[1:18:51] So we can we can make it part of our stormwater system.
[1:18:55] OK. And and just in the interest. Yes, Sir.
[1:18:58] For clarity.
[1:19:00] As I understand it.
[1:19:02] You applied for what's called the delineation.
[1:19:05] With the federal government.
[1:19:07] And then the federal.
[1:19:09] They made a determination of what is what monument.
[1:19:12] What is not? And that's a legal decision.
[1:19:15] Correct that we have not. To be clear, we haven't received our jurisdictional termination letter, but the wetlands have been
[1:19:18] verified.
[1:19:22] So it's in the queue.
[1:19:23] I don't care thought what's going on, but our.
[1:19:26] The Army Corps of Engineers is changing everything in our jurisdiction was going through the Buffalo office.
[1:19:31] Effective October 1st, everything in Ohio is going to be going to the Huntington, WV office.
[1:19:36] And there's a lot of confusion right now as to.
[1:19:39] When it gets handed off, how it gets handed off? Where it gets picked up but.
[1:19:43] It is MQ.
[1:19:46] Very good. Thank you. And in the interest of timing I see by show of hands.
[1:19:51] More audience members that are wishing to speak on this.
[1:19:53] Proposal this evening.
[1:19:57] OK. I just want to make sure that you're going to have.
[1:19:59] That was waiting on us.
[1:20:05] Further thoughts or comment from the board?
[1:20:08] The proposal has enough further discussion.
[1:20:12] OK.
[1:20:17] OK.
[1:20:18] Close. We're getting Sony districts, our floor and our forays.
[1:20:22] Code section 1270.05.
[1:20:25] B2A.
[1:20:27] Slash 1270.06 B 2A.
[1:20:31] Cluster subdivisions are a conditional use.
[1:20:34] Permitted only through an approval by the.
[1:20:37] Board of Zoning Appeals.
[1:20:39] The variance requested is to.
[1:20:42] Make that approval.
[1:20:46] 2nd And is there any further discussion?
[1:20:52] And and just a comment from myself, just in the absence of seeing.
[1:20:56] The traffic study wanting to have the most accurate information, I intend to abstain.
[1:21:00] From this vote.
[1:21:01] Just until that information would be available.
[1:21:06] Just to.
[1:21:07] To make the most informed decision possible, so I intend on abstaining from this board's vote.
[1:21:13] On this matter.
[1:21:22] Yes. Freely yes.
[1:21:24] Lundy and abstain.
[1:21:25] Motion carried.
[1:21:26] Thank you very much. Thank you.
[1:21:30] But I don't know how to.
[1:21:39] And with that, we have the announcement of the meeting dates for the October meeting that will be October 27th.
[1:21:46] 20/26, 6:00 PM at this Municipal Court complex.
[1:21:56] Then I got it where I was out of town, so I didn't respond.
[1:22:00] But because you know with the one issue on Edgewater.
[1:22:04] He sent us that list of names, but he hadn't contacted them.
[1:22:08] It it does seem like contacting.
[1:22:11] Having the building department.
[1:22:13] Tap the neighbors.
[1:22:16] You know, we're, we're trusting that the person's telling the person is telling us.
[1:22:20] He told us, he told us.
[1:22:23] There's a sign, right? Well, I know.
[1:22:25] But you don't know that the person live there just because they own the.
[1:22:29] It could be done again. How's the building? The ordinance is already.
[1:22:33] Been voted on.
[1:22:35] No, I'm not objecting to that one. I'm just saying no, I'm talking about.
[1:22:39] Did you order the government's account? Yeah, it failed.
[1:22:43] Oh, it did. OK. I didn't know. I didn't know. OK, Never mind what I said. OK.
[1:22:48] All right. Thank you very much.
[1:22:56] All right. And with that.