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welcome to our Q. the whole meeting of Thursday July

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the fifteenth now before we get begin this morning I'd

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like to begin with an acknowledgment of the Lekwungen homelands

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that we are on today ... and ... I had

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a meeting of the regional mayors we gather once a

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month ... and many of them we had all been

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at the ... by invitation of the chiefs on Friday

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at the Songhees wellness centre ... to stand with the

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chiefs as they reflected on ... the vandalism that's been

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taking place in our community and ... at our mayors

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meeting on Tuesday many of the mers indicated that as

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part of their territorially knowledge and at the beginning of

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their meetings that they had read the chief statement and

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so I'd like to do that ... this morning as

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well as our territorial acknowledgement

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so this is from all of the chiefs ... in

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the South Island and they've written hi dear South Island

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community members and beyond

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we are writing you in the United voice of nations

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to share our perspective on the recent events in the

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South Island and beyond and to spread hope that we

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can work together for change and a safer community

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these events are brought violence and vandalism to our region

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and communities the damaging of property including statues and totem

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poles is unacceptable we are all residents of this region

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and we need to respect each other

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we are leaders of the South Island indigenous communities and

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these acts are not ours we do not support them

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and we do not believe in dividing communities

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these acts are not medicine the fuel hate and inhibit

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the healing that is so deeply needed right now the

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disrespectful and damaging acts we have seen are not helping

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they're perpetuating hurt hate and divide

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these actions go against our teachings and are not reflective

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on how we have been taught to carry ourselves as

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a collective we feel the need to step in before

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things continue on a destructive path

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we are writing this letter because we need to work

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together towards the goals that strengthen our community and bonds

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with each other

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we ask all residents of southern Vancouver Island and beyond

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to join us on the road to healing

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we need to walk together supporting each other and demonstrate

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humanity

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we honor those that have stood with us those who

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are our allies and those who have listened and supported

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us

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all vandalism must stop immediately let us lock arms walk

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together and look out for one another

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please do not lose sight of the young ones that

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we are honoring and please listen to our elders and

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survivors in friendship Songhees nation Esquimalt nation Beecher bay first

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nation soak nation Malahat first nation say what First Nations

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starlet first nation pop which in first nation and say

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come first nation

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so that is our territorial acknowledgement today bringing the voices

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of the chiefs are right into our into our meeting

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... I need a motion to approve today's agenda thank

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you councillor Loveday seconded by councillor Thornton Joe does anyone

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wish to pull anything from the consent agenda

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okay seeing nothing pulled ... just to give council a

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heads up ... I will be leaving at the meeting

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from ten fifteen until eleven fifteen hopefully no longer ...

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to attend announcement today with the federal minister of transportation

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and I have a speaking role I I tried to

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say that I have a council meeting I can't come

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but ... that didn't fly so I will be going

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... councillor Dubow is acting mayor for July so he

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will be in the chair ... and ... and then

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I'll be back after that ... yes councillor Isitt regarding

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the the agenda ... I did research to see if

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some feedback in relation to U. one from some members

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of the citizens working group that was involved in the

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villages in corridors process ... I'm wondering if staff can

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just confirm when they notified members of that steering committee

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that this item was on the agenda

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through mayor helps I believe that email was sent out

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earlier this week to the working group

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thank you the feedback I've heard is that because of

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the very extensive work in the level of detail in

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the pandas appendices that some members felt they hadn't had

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sufficient time to properly review the materials in advance of

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this item coming to the committee so I'm wondering whether

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it might make sense to postpone consideration of U. one

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for one week ... it is a pretty ... important

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process for the for the neighborhoods involved ... I also

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reached out to the neighborhood where I serve as the

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liaison and ... the leads in that neighborhoods is away

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this week and have not had a chance reviewing the

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materials because I was hoping to get a temperature check

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on whether this initiative was ready to move forward or

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not the next stage and I would have more comfort

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so I think I'll try to be as an amendment

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to see where council lands I'd like to move the

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item you want to move to the July twenty second

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committee of the whole agenda

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it is K. seconded by councillor Dubow okay Levi largely

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motivated ... this is a multi year process and I

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think we do have to where it's already very expedited

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the some preliminary feedback I'm getting ... but I think

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given it's the summer months and my understanding is that

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check steering group members were notified on Tuesday they pointed

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out that many of them have ... employment outside of

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the volunteer duties on civic issues and they felt that

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they would have more comfort reviewing the materials and being

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able to provide ... comment to council a prior ...

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if there was a bit more time so ... it's

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council decide how to proceed okay thank you councillor Dubow

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as a seconder and I'd like to speak in the

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local councillor Loveday

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I I think is a war so in and the

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public most time to delve I don't have more understanding

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so that they feel trusted the process thank you ...

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I I'd I don't think that we should postpone this

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for two reasons one is we have a very

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... carefully organized the agendas between now and August fifth

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are there is a lot that is going to be

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coming to us and if we stock this ... up

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... we're we're going to have that as potentially unmanageable

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agendas but secondly ... this is just committee and I

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think the process that we have ... is this won't

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come to council until two weeks from today so that

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they'll be lots of time for members of the public

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to read the reports share their thoughts and for council

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to make any adjustments based on that feedback so the

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fact that this is a committee presentation and we've got

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staff here today ... and organize the agenda in order

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to hear from staff and and make some preliminary decisions

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that committee ... means that they're still two weeks more

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for people to give us feedback before you make a

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decision so for that reason I think we should proceed

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today ... and they'll be lots of time for public

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input before we make a decision that council councillor Loveday

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yeah I'm wondering about a

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sort of something in between those two where we would

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receive the presentation and ask any questions today and maybe

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after ... we for motions is I think the majority

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of the time will probably be on the questions I'd

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just a alternate proposal where we could maybe do some

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agenda management but also week to have the debate until

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after we've received the the input okay I that's a

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good suggestion ... so I then I would propose defeating

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the motion to postpone this until next week's meeting ...

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there is a lot of material just to digest today

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so we could and that actually would probably help the

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public because in in addition to just write reading the

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reports they can watch the staff presentations they can here

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are questions and then we can have the discussion about

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the motion next Thursday I think that's a good suggestion

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and that will probably help the public I just materials

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as well yes councillor Isitt

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it could be a procedurally it does require a bit

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of a leap of faith of council members who favor

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postponements to hope the majority will essentially vote to postpone

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after the staff presentation but I guess I'm prepared to

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take that leap of faith

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thank you very much also known as trust okay councillor

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Andrew

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just to give the mover systems ... comfort hi ...

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support tech councillor Loveday says suggestion as to why there

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we go okay perfect all right so all those in

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favor of postponing this until next week all those opposed

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okay very good thank you for raising that good good

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... resolution of that issue ... any further proposed changes

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to the agenda

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okay seeing none all those in favor any opposed none

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opposed that carries first order of business is to approve

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the consent agenda thanks counter although seconded by councillor Andrew

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up for members of the public when we put items

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on the consent agenda it means they will not be

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discussed at our committee today but forwarded either to today's

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council meeting of their time sensitive or to a two

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weeks hence if they are not all those in favor

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of the consent agenda any opposed okay so now we're

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going to move on to village and quarter planning phase

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one ... there are there's a lot of information here

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... and I think that this it would be great

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to ... go through and then spend time kind of

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neighborhood by neighborhood so I I don't know how the

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staff presentations organized but maybe we can here ... vote

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at the general presentation and then feels like water and

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then for and what in the north park and just

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stop and dive into each of those neighbourhoods as we

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go ... and then as you heard I think council's

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preferences to to gather information today to have the presentations

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but then to postpone consideration of the actual motions until

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next Thursday for reasons stated so I am going to

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welcome you both and turn it over to you

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thank you and good morning mayor and members of council

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my name is Marc Cittone senior planner and community planning

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within today's Lauren close also senior planner with the planning

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and I'll be providing a ... somewhat brief presentation on

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the local area planning process for hillside Quadra friend with

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the north park neighborhood so we appreciate the staff that

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there is a lot of material being brought forward and

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we will do that our best to summarize the key

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points and answer any questions we can

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but the purpose sorry

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okay

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the purpose of this report is to summarize engagement and

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analysis from the last second stage of it public engagement

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to summarize the proposed planning and design directions these are

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not finalized directions but rather ... what has been proposed

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for the next round of consultation with the public and

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to seek directions for that next phase of engagement

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we believe we're now at a point in the process

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we were ready to provide draft neighbourhood plans to the

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community for their review and comment this follows two rounds

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of public engagement involving over two thousand participants and thousands

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more who dropped into virtually or in person over the

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past two years

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50

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I'm going to provide a bit of a summary of

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the second phase of engagement from fall twenty twenty through

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March twenty twenty one this was one of our most

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substantial engagements the city held during covert in which we

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pioneered new approaches to at and learned a lot along

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the way it also incorporated a more robust approach to

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equity and representation consistent with the terms for this project

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as well as the emerging equity framework

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building on early engagement which started pre covert the city

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embarked on virtual planning workshops in lieu of a traditional

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in person workshop for sure at this gave us the

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chance to work with a diverse group of community members

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to develop concepts for broader engagement

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this was followed by in a primarily virtual engagement process

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spanning December to March of this year sixty four hundred

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people engaged with our online content of which two thousand

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people ... explored online resources watch videos and over six

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hundred took surveys this was paralleled with focus groups and

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virtual meetings which allowed us to reach a broad cross

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section of the community and included a focus on equity

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seeking populations

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a community led planning also occurred with for example in

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north park neighborhood association survey garnering almost two hundred responses

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and an equity study and public land study submitted by

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the hillside quarter community association

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in comparison to previous neighbourhood processes we reached a range

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of ages incomes and household types and housing ten years

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if not entirely representative of the community of the demographics

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we're confident that we reached a broad range that represented

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all members of our community surveys did well with the

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H. twenty four to forty five age range including families

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with children at home which are demographics that have typically

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been underrepresented in neighborhood planning process if not in city

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wide process and renters represented about one third of our

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respondents

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the process was also promoted by various means including a

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mailer to all households owners and businesses radio print and

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online media and thousands of fliers distributed real world opportunities

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were provided to interact with content and provide feedback

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I'll speak to what we heard what we learned and

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keep policy proposals in four areas housing urban villages sustainable

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mobility and public space

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for housing ... that some of the key thermal key

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themes we heard included a desire for varied housing opportunities

257
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in our neighborhoods there was widespread support for affordable housing

258
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options and general support for a range of choices including

259
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rental ownership and family sized housing some participants did want

260
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to focus on specific incomes household types or housing scales

261
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:48,580
and many supported at the density to support affordable options

262
00:22:48,580 --> 00:22:51,310
there was general support for housing your transit amenities in

263
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villages support very ... for different areas somewhat one of

264
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the most interesting themes that encourage emerged in our engagement

265
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was a desire to have multi family and rental options

266
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not just on busy arterial corridors but on quieter streets

267
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and for many this was seen as an equity issue

268
00:23:09,110 --> 00:23:12,880
providing renters and those who want to live in multi

269
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,560
family housing including families with a range of choices for

270
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,290
the types of environment they can live in and so

271
00:23:19,290 --> 00:23:22,720
there were some critique ... the the messaging of corridors

272
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based on that concern

273
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:28,740
there was also a concern to minimize displacement of existing

274
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rental buildings and renters

275
00:23:31,550 --> 00:23:34,120
as we grow and change as a city we heard

276
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:37,170
interesting car like living options but also need for mobility

277
00:23:37,170 --> 00:23:40,060
choices including that some need to drive for life Styler

278
00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:43,160
job ... there was an emphasis on design for it

279
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,750
neighborliness but also designed for liveability for residents and a

280
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desire for housing to be accompanied by investments in amenities

281
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and green space finally we did hear comments on the

282
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desire for equitable housing opportunities across the region and this

283
00:23:58,420 --> 00:24:01,530
was often expressed as a perception that some places were

284
00:24:01,530 --> 00:24:05,200
not accommodating their quote unquote fair share of multi family

285
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:14,040
affordable housing

286
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:15,970
it's

287
00:24:15,970 --> 00:24:18,520
so part of what we learned was presented in the

288
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,530
housing futures report as communicated their significant pent up demand

289
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:25,170
for housing scene in the lower house information rate a

290
00:24:25,170 --> 00:24:29,230
low vacancy rate households in unseasonably sized homes and to

291
00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:32,080
continue to exit of people from Victoria proper as a

292
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,360
form families and we also expect the region to continue

293
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to grow by about one percent per year as we

294
00:24:38,310 --> 00:24:42,380
indicated in the housing futures presentation the capacity of the

295
00:24:42,380 --> 00:24:45,270
current OCP is thought to be about fifteen to thirty

296
00:24:45,270 --> 00:24:48,000
percent short to meet the needs for the next twenty

297
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,700
years and I noting this is a someone updated figure

298
00:24:51,700 --> 00:24:56,090
we also conduct conducted economic analysis ... under financial viability

299
00:24:56,090 --> 00:24:58,510
of rental housing as some of the pre work for

300
00:24:58,510 --> 00:25:02,010
the rental housing strategy and we discovered that for rental

301
00:25:02,010 --> 00:25:06,080
housing to be viable ... absent financial incentives it often

302
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,960
needs a bit more density than our current urban residential

303
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:13,070
place designation allows ... this is not the case everywhere

304
00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:16,350
for example in desirable places where rent ... might be

305
00:25:16,350 --> 00:25:20,030
a bit higher or areas with lower land values or

306
00:25:20,030 --> 00:25:23,320
with reduced and ... surface or tuck under parking rather

307
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:27,210
than structured parking the current OCP densities may be sufficient

308
00:25:27,210 --> 00:25:30,810
to support rental we also found that parking ratios above

309
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,410
one space per about two units will be challenging for

310
00:25:34,730 --> 00:25:40,090
us to be financially viable

311
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:42,820
and we also conducted some urban design testing which will

312
00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:47,460
speak more to regarding design guidelines

313
00:25:47,460 --> 00:25:51,600
the key directions proposed for consultation includes several changes to

314
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:58,050
urban place designations to make room for diverse housing options

315
00:25:58,050 --> 00:26:01,860
first some areas near transit corridors and urban villages are

316
00:26:01,860 --> 00:26:05,800
proposed to be changed from traditional residential to urban residential

317
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,870
land use

318
00:26:09,870 --> 00:26:13,550
second within these areas some areas are recommended to consider

319
00:26:13,550 --> 00:26:15,940
a bit more density up to two point five to

320
00:26:15,940 --> 00:26:19,960
one floor space ratio where housing benefits or public amenities

321
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,380
can be provided this is a density that comfortably fits

322
00:26:23,380 --> 00:26:26,720
within five to six story buildings depending on lot size

323
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:33,000
and consistent with the proposed design guidelines

324
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,580
finally in some areas where people expressed wanting to live

325
00:26:36,580 --> 00:26:39,770
in wanting more housing options are recommended to consider a

326
00:26:39,770 --> 00:26:43,900
new mixed density designation which would allow buildings up to

327
00:26:43,900 --> 00:26:48,250
approximately four stories with proper transitions and this is reflected

328
00:26:48,250 --> 00:26:50,760
in the density of up to approximately one point six

329
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,740
to one floor space ratio and a smaller footprint building

330
00:26:55,740 --> 00:26:58,890
so putting it all together there are some changes recommended

331
00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:03,100
to for consultation

332
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:06,890
and during that process we would also consider areas within

333
00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:11,030
urban residential where the application of residential rental tenure rezoning

334
00:27:11,030 --> 00:27:18,000
might be appropriate to support rental housing

335
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,520
based on our consultation and urban design work the key

336
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,870
directions are also proposing some updates to design guidelines primarily

337
00:27:25,870 --> 00:27:30,730
for both livability and neighborliness this includes recommended setbacks and

338
00:27:30,730 --> 00:27:34,950
transitions I it supports green and leafy streets as the

339
00:27:34,950 --> 00:27:37,350
image we want on a residential streets as well as

340
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:42,670
corridors and some of the direction further prioritizes green space

341
00:27:42,670 --> 00:27:46,420
over parking we know tree canopy coverage has increased by

342
00:27:46,420 --> 00:27:49,500
about nine to thirteen percent in these neighborhoods and we'd

343
00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:52,890
like to see that continue in tandem with recent changes

344
00:27:52,890 --> 00:27:56,030
to the to the tree preservation bylaw and planting standards

345
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:59,960
D. directions also propose some building designs which would be

346
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:03,870
appropriate for busy streets are quieter streets to support livability

347
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:11,230
such as courtyard housing forms

348
00:28:11,230 --> 00:28:14,900
the second topic is urban villages our planning for fifteen

349
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:18,590
minutes neighborhoods and the objectives of these plans are to

350
00:28:18,590 --> 00:28:22,590
support daily needs close to home opportunities for local business

351
00:28:22,620 --> 00:28:29,480
and more joyful public spaces within our neighborhoods

352
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,550
we heard that there's a strong value for walkable villages

353
00:28:32,550 --> 00:28:36,280
for their diverse local and multicultural businesses and services and

354
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,250
culture we also heard that some parts of the neighborhoods

355
00:28:39,250 --> 00:28:42,150
are too far to walk easily to the south offerings

356
00:28:42,150 --> 00:28:46,100
and that so I consistent with analysis ... we know

357
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:49,460
there's a desire for public spaces in all villages particularly

358
00:28:49,460 --> 00:28:52,430
in north park and Quadra villages that are accessible to

359
00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:57,100
all residents and many supported additional densities where these amenities

360
00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:00,700
could be provided there's also a desire for better pedestrian

361
00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:04,750
connectivity for supporting our urban forest and for a good

362
00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:07,980
architectural interface with the public realm

363
00:29:07,980 --> 00:29:11,340
for businesses we heard that parking management public seating and

364
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:14,510
diverse commercial unit sizes are important and we heard a

365
00:29:14,510 --> 00:29:17,330
general concern that small business is not be priced out

366
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:26,430
whether it's by new developments or simply by rising rents

367
00:29:26,430 --> 00:29:29,200
as part of this process we conducted a retail study

368
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,350
to look at what ... the retailing and service needs

369
00:29:32,350 --> 00:29:35,120
of the community would be in twenty forty one and

370
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,140
we learned that Victorians will support about a fifteen to

371
00:29:38,140 --> 00:29:41,500
twenty six percent growth in retail and services over the

372
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:43,350
next twenty years

373
00:29:43,350 --> 00:29:45,130
we know that some areas are more than a fifteen

374
00:29:45,130 --> 00:29:47,430
minute walk from larger villages and that some of these

375
00:29:47,430 --> 00:29:52,140
areas show strong potential for village expansion

376
00:29:52,140 --> 00:29:55,850
we also learned through economic analysis that the OCP densities

377
00:29:55,850 --> 00:29:59,520
in large urban villages maybe marginally viable right now for

378
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,590
commercial and rental commercial buildings with rental residential included and

379
00:30:04,590 --> 00:30:07,970
that are densities in smaller villages at four stories are

380
00:30:07,970 --> 00:30:11,580
viable for commercial with strata residential but perhaps not for

381
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:15,390
rental we also learned the parking requirements may impede an

382
00:30:15,430 --> 00:30:19,910
incremental changes and that's because of parking requirements often drive

383
00:30:19,910 --> 00:30:23,040
the need for underground parking in villages which requires larger

384
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:31,260
floor plates intends to encourage assemblage

385
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:34,980
so based on what we heard we've proposed some changes

386
00:30:34,980 --> 00:30:39,090
to make room for thoughtful expansion enhancement and growth of

387
00:30:39,090 --> 00:30:43,510
our villages

388
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:46,430
and I'll run through just the key themes for each

389
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:49,300
of the three major villages here we know there's a

390
00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:52,050
lot of content and so will will keep it high

391
00:30:52,050 --> 00:30:55,480
level for quarter village one of the key themes is

392
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,400
to maintain the small foot print pattern where it exists

393
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:02,540
we noticed small store fronts small commercial spaces are valued

394
00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:05,800
and that there's ... on ownership pattern that's quite varied

395
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:08,880
and so ... speaking to one of the main ways

396
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,100
we can support this is a proposal to remove parking

397
00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:16,230
requirements from smaller mixed use buildings so that over time

398
00:31:16,230 --> 00:31:20,710
area decisions can lead to reinvestment in smaller lots rather

399
00:31:20,710 --> 00:31:24,780
than driving the consolidation for larger buildings with larger developments

400
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:27,650
we know there are also larger sites and the plans

401
00:31:27,650 --> 00:31:30,830
envision if re development should occur on the sites that

402
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:33,090
there are amenities that people would like to see in

403
00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:36,800
these neighborhoods as well as diverse housing we also recognize

404
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,730
that there's a strong desire for hillside Avenue to be

405
00:31:39,730 --> 00:31:42,310
a more pedestrian friendly spaces and that the village can

406
00:31:42,310 --> 00:31:44,300
better turn the corner

407
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:48,610
four what's it for quarter west UNC along kings road

408
00:31:48,610 --> 00:31:52,280
west the plans envision a future mixed income community with

409
00:31:52,310 --> 00:31:55,520
on site amenities for residents as well as new public

410
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:59,590
spaces and also support the evolution of a courtroom use

411
00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:02,120
where the lane way over time to transition into a

412
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,720
more pedestrian friendly public space with opportunities for additional housing

413
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,700
as well as businesses and makerspaces

414
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:16,130
with the north park village the key directions also proposed

415
00:32:16,130 --> 00:32:19,270
maintaining the small foot print ... pattern of ownership and

416
00:32:19,270 --> 00:32:22,840
buildings that's important but also it enabling some larger and

417
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,680
medium sized developments to support a public plaza public space

418
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,270
and diverse housing we know there's currently ... a lot

419
00:32:30,270 --> 00:32:32,760
of surface parking in the village and so there may

420
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,500
be evolution over the coming decades so it's up to

421
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:36,930
the market

422
00:32:36,930 --> 00:32:41,110
we also have developed directions to use place making to

423
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:43,350
of all of what could become a permanent closet to

424
00:32:43,350 --> 00:32:47,000
meet that desire people express for public gathering space and

425
00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,730
to enhance greenery and sidewalks which requires either new development

426
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:55,110
or re purposing of the roadway ... there's a desire

427
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:59,310
to turn the corner to better connect psychologically Franklin green

428
00:32:59,310 --> 00:33:02,690
park ... for people when you're visiting the village and

429
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,550
to encourage the retention and revitalization of the remaining light

430
00:33:06,550 --> 00:33:10,240
industrial and artisan spaces along north Park Street not just

431
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,910
as a reflection of the history of this neighborhood but

432
00:33:12,910 --> 00:33:15,520
for the future to provide good jobs to provide space

433
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,770
for the arts

434
00:33:18,770 --> 00:33:21,810
for for in wood village ... the key directions call

435
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:26,740
for enabling the village to incrementally expand over time with

436
00:33:26,770 --> 00:33:29,450
a small scale feel and buildings generally no more than

437
00:33:29,450 --> 00:33:33,620
four stories ... the the key directions propose a commercial

438
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:37,900
desired approach to some area which would seek new buildings

439
00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:41,930
that can accommodate commercial and services at the ground floor

440
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:45,370
but could also be flexible to accommodate residential so that

441
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,500
the the addition of housing is not stymied ... there

442
00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:52,360
is the directions call for better connecting for an would

443
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,630
square to Gladstone Avenue and to green spaces with ...

444
00:33:56,870 --> 00:34:01,140
better pedestrian connections public seating and amenities to allow the

445
00:34:01,140 --> 00:34:04,270
future expansion of the belfry theatre or or a cultural

446
00:34:04,270 --> 00:34:08,450
space and to update the guidelines the design guidelines with

447
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:13,360
an eye to heritage sensitivity

448
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,380
for other villages ... that are proposed there are several

449
00:34:17,380 --> 00:34:20,700
small villages income community corner is proposed to serve areas

450
00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:22,900
that are more than a fifteen minute walk from larger

451
00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:27,770
villages now ... baystreet is proposed accommodate some commercial nodes

452
00:34:27,770 --> 00:34:31,570
as well as diverse housing supporting frequent transit and enhancing

453
00:34:31,950 --> 00:34:35,420
the the feel and the the pedestrian and green the

454
00:34:35,420 --> 00:34:38,550
static of the street I'm a future High Street has

455
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:41,300
been envisioned a quadrant told me which is supported by

456
00:34:41,300 --> 00:34:44,890
the area population particularly to the north ... and in

457
00:34:44,890 --> 00:34:47,810
footprint would be somewhat smaller than Haultain corners if it

458
00:34:47,810 --> 00:34:51,510
were to fall that's envisioned and then ... an interesting

459
00:34:51,510 --> 00:34:55,280
idea that came from local residents was a community corners

460
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,210
in your friend list and hi if you to create

461
00:34:57,210 --> 00:35:00,340
a place for a community focal point in the space

462
00:35:00,340 --> 00:35:08,030
for local serving businesses for place making and so forth

463
00:35:08,030 --> 00:35:12,200
regarding sustainable mobility is the key directions ... look to

464
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,240
further and support the go Victoria sustainable mobility plan a

465
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:19,710
key implementation step is to conduct quarter studies to better

466
00:35:19,710 --> 00:35:23,340
lamb line land use and urban design to determine ...

467
00:35:23,340 --> 00:35:26,000
what sorts of right of way are needed to accommodate

468
00:35:26,060 --> 00:35:29,960
our sustainable mobility future an urban forest along those corridors

469
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:32,990
and what kind of setbacks could be accommodated and that

470
00:35:32,990 --> 00:35:35,650
would be done with existing local you're planning funds for

471
00:35:35,650 --> 00:35:40,510
transportation I streets as greener places for people and a

472
00:35:40,510 --> 00:35:43,580
couple of the directions that support go Victoria are to

473
00:35:43,580 --> 00:35:47,710
modernize our parking requirements again to support rental housing as

474
00:35:47,710 --> 00:35:51,620
well as smaller footprint commercial mixed use options end of

475
00:35:51,620 --> 00:35:54,550
managing on street parking to better balance the needs of

476
00:35:54,550 --> 00:35:57,760
businesses as well as residents and in four environment so

477
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:00,920
we can have more vibrant villages the plans also propose

478
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,990
additions to our green Waye system to better connect homes

479
00:36:03,990 --> 00:36:08,910
parks and other destinations within our neighborhoods

480
00:36:08,910 --> 00:36:12,800
regarding parks amenities and open spaces

481
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,940
what one of the important notice that local area planning

482
00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:19,260
is not the primary means by which the city plans

483
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:22,840
major parks investments but rather does are based on the

484
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,910
parks and open spaces master plan ... individual park improvement

485
00:36:26,910 --> 00:36:30,030
plans that are done periodically and the priorities set by

486
00:36:30,030 --> 00:36:34,020
council ... through strategic plan and through the financial plan

487
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,750
but local area planning does provide us the ability to

488
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:41,200
look for opportunities on larger sites for public space to

489
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,540
identify needs ... and to look for gaps in our

490
00:36:44,540 --> 00:36:48,580
system one of the proposals is to support ... the

491
00:36:48,580 --> 00:36:52,890
formalization of green space ... in hillside Quadra south hillside

492
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:56,390
Avenue where the population is most diverse and where multi

493
00:36:56,390 --> 00:36:59,590
family housing it is located on to expand or in

494
00:36:59,590 --> 00:37:02,830
your community center space is consistent with the strategic plan

495
00:37:03,250 --> 00:37:06,710
... an important point we heard through our consultation was

496
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:10,190
that there's a strong desire to locate spaces for indigenous

497
00:37:10,190 --> 00:37:13,430
gathering and cultural practice in the center of our region

498
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:17,300
... and the the ... not so much ... space

499
00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:21,690
in ... commotion Lansdowne campus with sometimes cited ... but

500
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:24,850
there's a feeling that there isn't a dedicated space ...

501
00:37:24,850 --> 00:37:29,550
for indigenous practice and celebration that there are indigenous people

502
00:37:29,550 --> 00:37:32,500
of many nations living in these neighborhoods and that the

503
00:37:32,500 --> 00:37:36,380
center region is very accessible ... for people and so

504
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:39,500
it's something we'd like to keep in mind there was

505
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:42,370
also a desire to consider location for small scale outdoor

506
00:37:42,370 --> 00:37:45,840
music events whether it's youth events or something its biggest

507
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:48,590
quarter village days and to make those easier happen and

508
00:37:48,590 --> 00:37:51,450
so that's something we can explore through our upcoming music

509
00:37:51,450 --> 00:37:55,910
strategy ... we know there's interest in looking for opportunities

510
00:37:55,940 --> 00:37:59,390
... ten corporate rock big creek or the historic rocky

511
00:37:59,390 --> 00:38:02,490
creek into public or private lands and to continue to

512
00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:08,240
support community gardening efforts through growing in the city

513
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:10,560
the next steps that are proposed are to bring these

514
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,540
key directions in the form of draft plans and design

515
00:38:13,540 --> 00:38:18,980
guidelines to the community for robust engagement phase ...

516
00:38:18,980 --> 00:38:23,570
this engagement phase would emphasize a variety of opportunities for

517
00:38:23,570 --> 00:38:27,460
input depending on one's interest with higher or more in

518
00:38:27,460 --> 00:38:32,290
depth levels of information and ability to provide feedback as

519
00:38:32,290 --> 00:38:35,640
well as shorter ... ways to to both get information

520
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:39,480
and provide feedback to use video and different promotional means

521
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,550
to appeal to different people and to focus on both

522
00:38:43,550 --> 00:38:47,690
virtual ... engagement which has been very successful in bridging

523
00:38:47,690 --> 00:38:50,550
the gap to some of our demographics and in person

524
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:54,270
opportunities

525
00:38:54,270 --> 00:38:57,390
the key to read the key recommendations are summarized here

526
00:38:57,390 --> 00:39:00,300
and ... that will conclude my presentation thank you very

527
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:03,700
much Mr Sisson thank you very much and as close

528
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:07,930
as well so council as noted will just have questions

529
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:11,330
but but also I think ... comments will be in

530
00:39:11,330 --> 00:39:13,630
order ... just because it would be odd to just

531
00:39:13,630 --> 00:39:16,120
have questions for a long time so if people want

532
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,310
to just give their general impressions or feelings or profits

533
00:39:19,310 --> 00:39:22,630
... question with a comment that's okay so again kind

534
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:24,400
of like we did with the strategic plan more of

535
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,340
a workshop feel especially since we will be debating motions

536
00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:29,930
today so there's a lot to dig into a and

537
00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:31,950
maybe I'll start I'll start with council rise it'll look

538
00:39:31,950 --> 00:39:34,640
for others and maybe just to keep some variety not

539
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,880
have one person holding the floor for awhile starts cancer

540
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:39,410
as a go to concerts or enjoy everyone will have

541
00:39:39,410 --> 00:39:42,210
ample opportunity so don't feel like your first time to

542
00:39:42,210 --> 00:39:44,510
speak is your only time to speak accounts are as

543
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:45,780
it go ahead

544
00:39:45,780 --> 00:39:48,290
thank you ... it's clear that in the a lot

545
00:39:48,290 --> 00:39:50,210
of work has gone into this so I wanna thank

546
00:39:50,210 --> 00:39:54,520
staff for ... the the very high quality ... work

547
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,390
both preparing these documents ... also the level of engagement

548
00:39:58,930 --> 00:40:05,120
... I heard ... some from some neighborhoods ... representatives

549
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,020
I've heard that they feel the the plan is ready

550
00:40:08,020 --> 00:40:12,630
to move forward and ... from others ... the to

551
00:40:12,860 --> 00:40:15,990
do feel that the experience for them has been something

552
00:40:16,210 --> 00:40:20,760
short of what ... the perceived Victoria west and print

553
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:25,150
site gorge and Fairfield is getting an

554
00:40:25,150 --> 00:40:28,460
reading those comments made me question the wisdom of council's

555
00:40:28,460 --> 00:40:31,180
decision to sort of combine these three neighborhoods into a

556
00:40:31,180 --> 00:40:36,060
single process ... something I've also heard from Fernwood is

557
00:40:36,060 --> 00:40:40,260
that the ... person from from some from what residents

558
00:40:40,530 --> 00:40:45,150
is that ... they think it's problematic that different park

559
00:40:45,260 --> 00:40:47,910
these busy different sides of their neighbourhood are hived off

560
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:52,110
into different processes so unlike north park in court hillside

561
00:40:52,110 --> 00:40:55,640
Quadra which this is sort of an integrated planning process

562
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:58,990
even though it's bundled with other neighborhoods for firmware they

563
00:40:58,990 --> 00:41:01,150
have to wait til the next phase to have the

564
00:41:01,150 --> 00:41:04,890
fourth street corridor ... discussed and then they have to

565
00:41:04,890 --> 00:41:07,270
wait for the fees after that I believe the new

566
00:41:07,270 --> 00:41:10,900
facing might involve Oaklands in the next phase but essentially

567
00:41:11,010 --> 00:41:14,140
the northern and southern limits of that affirm whether or

568
00:41:14,140 --> 00:41:17,380
not actually part of this process so for some for

569
00:41:17,380 --> 00:41:21,260
and what residents and community leaders it's felt like a

570
00:41:21,260 --> 00:41:26,390
disjointed process ... and they wonder about the viability of

571
00:41:26,390 --> 00:41:30,280
achieving an updated neighbourhood plan given that sort of just

572
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,120
jointed nature ... I guess an issue that's come up

573
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:37,080
previously to is ... with Covidien a lack of opportunity

574
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:41,110
for in person meetings ... I guess question has there

575
00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:44,200
been sufficient engagement to move to the stage of drafting

576
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,150
a plan so I guess if Mr Cittone could maybe

577
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:49,880
just to address those questions that I guess the disk

578
00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:53,560
jointed nature of the process and Fernwood

579
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,670
... the potential negative impacts of the bundling the freak

580
00:41:56,670 --> 00:42:00,410
three neighborhoods versus the more room robust and focus project

581
00:42:00,410 --> 00:42:04,320
that process of the other neighborhoods that previously ... and

582
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,200
then ... just because of it and and whether some

583
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:13,600
additional engagement prior to drafting the plan might be advisable

584
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:18,050
but thank you councillor in through mayor helps up regarding

585
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:20,450
the first question I try to keep all three questions

586
00:42:20,450 --> 00:42:23,430
in mind ... I believe it's about bundling a bundling

587
00:42:23,430 --> 00:42:26,960
the neighborhoods out there one of the key reasons we

588
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:32,090
proposed ... tackling these particular three neighborhoods together in the

589
00:42:32,090 --> 00:42:35,600
past we've always had two or three neighbourhood planning process

590
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,330
he's going on at once I believe we had ...

591
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:42,390
request and Fairfield in Gonzales and then that will consolidate

592
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:46,450
process he split off and the way our neighborhood boundaries

593
00:42:46,450 --> 00:42:48,560
and we know that it's been ... a subject of

594
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,540
discussion in the community ... but the way our neighborhood

595
00:42:51,540 --> 00:42:54,180
boundaries are drawn and the way we interact with people

596
00:42:54,180 --> 00:42:56,620
cross those boundaries whether it's to take their children to

597
00:42:56,620 --> 00:43:02,560
elementary school or to access ... cultural opportunities are businesses

598
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,190
in the next neighborhood ... on our working group alone

599
00:43:05,190 --> 00:43:07,870
we've had renters with moved from one neighborhood to another

600
00:43:08,180 --> 00:43:12,080
during the process ... simply because of ... their their

601
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,450
living situation assassinated that ... so we see a lot

602
00:43:17,450 --> 00:43:20,200
of inter twined between these neighborhoods and I think the

603
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,240
discussion for example that's going on in for an within

604
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:26,020
north park I mean it's been very beneficial for us

605
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:28,520
to talk about both of those neighbourhoods together so for

606
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,700
our process it's fairly in material where that boundary lies

607
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:35,970
because we're consulting on what kind of place people would

608
00:43:35,970 --> 00:43:38,790
like in north park village and what kind of opportunities

609
00:43:38,790 --> 00:43:41,820
people would like for living and for moving around on

610
00:43:41,820 --> 00:43:45,890
those neighbourhoods so we as staff feel like the bundling

611
00:43:45,890 --> 00:43:49,160
has been a very positive thing ... we understand there

612
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,480
are some concerns about the final product which will be

613
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:56,240
a neighbourhood plan and that ... in the in the

614
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,260
case of Fernwood up parts of that southern part of

615
00:43:59,260 --> 00:44:02,410
for an would south of Pandora Avenue are incorporated into

616
00:44:02,410 --> 00:44:06,490
a comprehensive planning process for fort St ... we've left

617
00:44:06,490 --> 00:44:10,750
Haultain corners ... to be consulted through the Oaklands process

618
00:44:11,060 --> 00:44:11,370
it's some

619
00:44:11,370 --> 00:44:12,870
I think that we've always had to do and I

620
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:15,350
think when we when we did the Gonzalez plan in

621
00:44:15,350 --> 00:44:18,580
fact we signaled that we weren't consulting on oak bay

622
00:44:18,580 --> 00:44:22,010
Avenue village during that process because that would be consulted

623
00:44:22,010 --> 00:44:24,520
on at the same time it's two billion so there's

624
00:44:24,790 --> 00:44:28,530
perhaps no ... no one answer to how to divide

625
00:44:28,530 --> 00:44:31,410
these these areas and then the last one was cold

626
00:44:31,410 --> 00:44:34,700
within the lack of opportunities for in person engagement and

627
00:44:34,700 --> 00:44:39,210
whether some additional engagement might be advisable before moving towards

628
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:41,280
drafting the plans

629
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,380
yeah as far as as in person engagement of course

630
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:47,210
during covert ... it was challenging to do in person

631
00:44:47,210 --> 00:44:50,600
engagement and we did ... some things like a a

632
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,550
socially distance walk shop as part of our workshops we

633
00:44:54,550 --> 00:44:58,850
were able to supplement ... that desire with a number

634
00:44:58,850 --> 00:45:02,580
of online focus groups which reached I believe for a

635
00:45:02,580 --> 00:45:05,830
total of over two hundred people both with focus groups

636
00:45:05,830 --> 00:45:09,900
same that at ... sometimes less engage groups like newcomers

637
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:15,170
like youth high school students ... renters as well as

638
00:45:15,170 --> 00:45:19,030
... you know just community residents and and business groups

639
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,600
... business owners and then our ... online engagement we've

640
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,790
certainly heard there are people who value

641
00:45:26,790 --> 00:45:30,100
the feel of in person engagement the the dialogue we've

642
00:45:30,100 --> 00:45:32,060
heard from some homeowners who want to hear more from

643
00:45:32,060 --> 00:45:35,800
renters they may not trust what we're hearing ... but

644
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,570
overall we also feel that the online engagement and it's

645
00:45:39,570 --> 00:45:42,690
also something we've heard has given demographics who didn't participate

646
00:45:42,690 --> 00:45:45,990
robustly in the past a chance to participate we've had

647
00:45:45,990 --> 00:45:49,500
meetings where ... there there is ... you parents of

648
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:53,200
young children who turn off their camera to ... do

649
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:54,540
what they need to do to take care of their

650
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:57,750
children and we're still able to participate and so we

651
00:45:57,750 --> 00:46:00,850
believe there have been positives as well that what we'd

652
00:46:00,850 --> 00:46:03,660
like to do in the next round because of being

653
00:46:03,660 --> 00:46:06,900
able to open up is to continue the positives of

654
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:11,640
virtual engagement while incorporating more of that in person touch

655
00:46:11,790 --> 00:46:14,570
... we also recognize that there are topics that people

656
00:46:14,990 --> 00:46:18,170
... because planning is an ongoing process these topics that

657
00:46:18,170 --> 00:46:22,190
people want through in person engagement to build community to

658
00:46:22,190 --> 00:46:24,860
work with our neighbourhoods team to talk about where community

659
00:46:24,860 --> 00:46:26,860
gardens might be or how they can use a growing

660
00:46:26,860 --> 00:46:29,660
in the city grant and so we know those conversations

661
00:46:29,660 --> 00:46:33,850
will continue to happen ... but that the the local

662
00:46:33,850 --> 00:46:37,890
area planning process will give us the ability to update

663
00:46:37,890 --> 00:46:40,420
our OCP in a timely manner to address some of

664
00:46:40,420 --> 00:46:44,340
the key issues were facing as a society around sustainability

665
00:46:44,340 --> 00:46:48,630
around our housing needs around public space while allowing all

666
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:53,180
of those conversations to continue ... through ongoing city support

667
00:46:53,180 --> 00:46:56,730
and programs thank you mayor helps how much did you

668
00:46:56,730 --> 00:46:59,380
wanna limit each so what are you ask one more

669
00:46:59,380 --> 00:47:03,800
question yeah so it's good ... sure very minor so

670
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,490
maybe I'll just ask them almost more technical and then

671
00:47:06,490 --> 00:47:09,700
maybe a little bit more substantial one in this it

672
00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:13,200
gives me a summary ... there's a map it's the

673
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,290
map of the greenways and parks

674
00:47:16,290 --> 00:47:18,590
... she knows what's not in there so the what

675
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,210
I think in the what's next so what's proposed

676
00:47:22,210 --> 00:47:25,240
... just confirming is the last page but maybe another

677
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,560
attachment yeah if you could give us ... the attachment

678
00:47:28,810 --> 00:47:33,440
letter and then the page number sure page eight of

679
00:47:33,690 --> 00:47:36,190
the back to see I usually don't use the software

680
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:39,100
attachment be

681
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:44,390
AJ to attach and be okay

682
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:48,720
... just looking at the ... I think it's very

683
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:51,230
positive the new green ways that have been identified and

684
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:54,140
I think they do reflect the pattern of people living

685
00:47:54,140 --> 00:47:56,230
in those neighborhoods ...

686
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:58,430
so I think knowledge ment of that is good to

687
00:47:58,430 --> 00:48:02,760
help to target future investment ... future planting of trees

688
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,310
and other ...

689
00:48:04,310 --> 00:48:09,490
amenities to transform those into kind of linear parks

690
00:48:09,490 --> 00:48:12,940
him broke street the city in the past has invested

691
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,630
quite a bit of money at the intersection of ...

692
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:19,930
Pembroke and big B. and the area that we call

693
00:48:19,930 --> 00:48:22,860
up big big green although maybe we re visit that

694
00:48:22,860 --> 00:48:25,830
naming choice based on some recent information from island health

695
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,260
with respect to their former big be building but it's

696
00:48:29,260 --> 00:48:32,490
a little tension toll but ... yeah just wondering why

697
00:48:32,490 --> 00:48:36,510
Pembroke isn't shown is extending ... essentially all the way

698
00:48:36,510 --> 00:48:40,330
into the jubilees because it does seem to function it

699
00:48:40,330 --> 00:48:42,300
is I think already a green way in terms of

700
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:43,510
there's a

701
00:48:43,510 --> 00:48:46,920
... I'm not sure if it's a fully signalized crosswalk

702
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,830
in terms of the district pedestrian control signal but there's

703
00:48:49,830 --> 00:48:56,490
a fairly substantial marked crosswalk at Pembroke and Shelburne then

704
00:48:56,490 --> 00:48:58,850
there's a park and then all of those side roads

705
00:48:58,850 --> 00:49:01,860
towards ... fort street and to the hospital kind of

706
00:49:01,860 --> 00:49:05,280
function is pretty calm so you're suggesting the green the

707
00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:07,590
green way should continue right into all the way to

708
00:49:07,590 --> 00:49:10,450
the probably even for came up a chunk going to

709
00:49:10,450 --> 00:49:14,470
the jubilee hospital sort of due east and then probably

710
00:49:14,470 --> 00:49:16,540
going down one of those roads chess not or the

711
00:49:16,540 --> 00:49:21,020
next one where that new seniors complexes going

712
00:49:21,020 --> 00:49:22,920
at that time is it just has that has not

713
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,100
been on staff's reader screen yeah it's a good question

714
00:49:26,130 --> 00:49:28,660
... and I think I may have to look to

715
00:49:28,660 --> 00:49:31,850
make transportation colleagues I believe they've been ... one or

716
00:49:31,850 --> 00:49:35,940
two different routes identified as ... the the most appropriate

717
00:49:35,940 --> 00:49:39,380
route to continue East West mobility through their ... and

718
00:49:39,380 --> 00:49:41,800
we know you know green ways and things like bicycle

719
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,050
routes don't always overlap ... but yeah that's exactly I

720
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:47,430
think in presenting this to the community the kind of

721
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:50,510
feedback we want to hear I know we've also recently

722
00:49:50,510 --> 00:49:53,510
done upgrades to Denman so that also has better East

723
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:57,970
West active transportation connectivity but I think also Shakespeare street

724
00:49:58,000 --> 00:49:59,860
the hill goes up quite a bit when you go

725
00:49:59,860 --> 00:50:00,000
to

726
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,540
so the Pembroke so I think most pedestrians would choose

727
00:50:03,540 --> 00:50:07,460
the fairly gentle grade of Pembroke ... I think also

728
00:50:07,460 --> 00:50:11,390
Pembroke going to the west towards downtown I think it's

729
00:50:11,390 --> 00:50:14,010
very supportable it so I have a friend who uses

730
00:50:14,010 --> 00:50:15,790
a wheelchair and it is one of the most gentle

731
00:50:15,790 --> 00:50:19,050
grades in the neighborhood so from the accessibility standpoint I

732
00:50:19,050 --> 00:50:22,390
think considering Pembroke all the way from rock bay from

733
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:25,150
just down here all the way to the jubilee hospital

734
00:50:25,150 --> 00:50:28,100
is in East West green way and eventually achieving some

735
00:50:28,100 --> 00:50:31,770
crossing across Blanchard I think is good policy ... my

736
00:50:31,770 --> 00:50:34,010
only other note on a green way there is in

737
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:37,730
the western end so we look this topaz park in

738
00:50:37,730 --> 00:50:40,880
the north and it runs through the topaz campus of

739
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:44,400
Victoria high school and then down through evergreen terrace and

740
00:50:44,630 --> 00:50:50,070
it shows a proposed greenway extending down ... dollar so

741
00:50:50,070 --> 00:50:53,790
it's a dotted line going south that ends at Pembroke

742
00:50:53,890 --> 00:50:56,450
um as someone who lives not too far from there

743
00:50:56,450 --> 00:50:58,660
that does function as a green way right into the

744
00:50:58,660 --> 00:51:03,120
downtown and then takes the the Hudson news between Chatham

745
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,660
street and Fitchburg and so I realize that's in the

746
00:51:06,660 --> 00:51:09,630
downtown but I think it's I think to showing that

747
00:51:09,630 --> 00:51:12,950
north south connection being the green week connection into the

748
00:51:12,950 --> 00:51:17,230
downtown even write to city hall would reflect existing patterns

749
00:51:17,230 --> 00:51:18,800
of mobility

750
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,760
so ... does I guess I'll save my next one

751
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,270
for the next round thank you thank you and ...

752
00:51:25,270 --> 00:51:27,900
just a question on process ... so councillor Isitt's made

753
00:51:27,900 --> 00:51:30,790
that suggestion how do councillors that the how to councillor

754
00:51:30,790 --> 00:51:33,360
suggestions get kind of taken as as feedback as well

755
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,830
or is it come is is kind of a workshop

756
00:51:35,830 --> 00:51:39,170
be kind of the opportunity for us to like for

757
00:51:39,210 --> 00:51:41,560
like that that suggestion and others that councillors may make

758
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:44,730
our staff noting down this is kind of quote unquote

759
00:51:44,730 --> 00:51:47,490
public consultation with council

760
00:51:47,490 --> 00:51:50,100
I I may differ to council for that I suppose

761
00:51:50,100 --> 00:51:53,220
this is one of two ways ... that could be

762
00:51:53,220 --> 00:51:55,880
on it could be two to bring if you these

763
00:51:55,880 --> 00:51:58,250
proposals to the public and see what else we here

764
00:51:58,250 --> 00:52:00,430
as well and then start adding things in or or

765
00:52:00,430 --> 00:52:05,870
modifying things or if council ... so chooses to ...

766
00:52:06,190 --> 00:52:10,740
proposed sent some refinement or a different approach to it

767
00:52:10,740 --> 00:52:13,630
before we bring something to the public ... I don't

768
00:52:13,630 --> 00:52:15,880
know if I these have anything more to to say

769
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,360
to that but I would defer to council yeah I

770
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,240
think what what what I what I don't want to

771
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:23,350
get into it is ... a motion to make the

772
00:52:23,350 --> 00:52:26,400
Green Line extend two more blocks ... that would just

773
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:27,980
be would be really getting into the weeds but I

774
00:52:27,980 --> 00:52:31,200
think ... in past neighbourhood planning process easier has been

775
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,900
and I'm kind of glad that that the state has

776
00:52:32,900 --> 00:52:34,860
shaken out as it has because this is like let's

777
00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:37,290
consider this a workshop with council and then decisions next

778
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:39,750
weekend so maybe just note down that kind of input

779
00:52:39,780 --> 00:52:41,610
I don't think anyone we don't need to change the

780
00:52:41,610 --> 00:52:44,080
plans before they go to council but ... before they

781
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,090
go to the public but this feedback from council today

782
00:52:46,090 --> 00:52:49,210
can can help inform the final plans just as the

783
00:52:49,210 --> 00:52:51,730
public input on the plans well okay thank you I

784
00:52:51,730 --> 00:52:54,060
councillor Thornton Joe counselor Loveday and then I'll look for

785
00:52:54,060 --> 00:52:58,160
others yeah yeah thank you ... for the presentation and

786
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,520
I agreed that ... there's tremendous amount of work that's

787
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,020
been obviously been put into it and engagement I was

788
00:53:05,020 --> 00:53:07,780
really happy to see some of the groups that perhaps

789
00:53:08,190 --> 00:53:13,490
... haven't often been ... engaged ... that that that

790
00:53:13,570 --> 00:53:17,100
percentage has gone up ... but I also am concerned

791
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:21,030
about term you know what through a cold it I

792
00:53:21,030 --> 00:53:24,330
have heard from folks that say I have no technical

793
00:53:24,330 --> 00:53:27,900
ability I captain zoom meeting or you know what do

794
00:53:27,900 --> 00:53:29,880
I do a phone call or can we meet the

795
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,190
park in the distance ... I've I've heard people say

796
00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:37,990
that they have not really left their house in the

797
00:53:37,990 --> 00:53:40,230
whole time because of

798
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:45,150
of some form of you know

799
00:53:45,150 --> 00:53:49,570
the concerns of of of being high at risk so

800
00:53:49,570 --> 00:53:52,370
I you know I think ... as as we're are

801
00:53:52,370 --> 00:53:56,150
are opening up I'd like to see an opportunity to

802
00:53:56,730 --> 00:54:00,980
do a little bit more in person ...

803
00:54:00,980 --> 00:54:05,290
and especially getting also not necessary from where we are

804
00:54:05,290 --> 00:54:07,320
right now but also being able to give a little

805
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,400
bit of background as well for those individuals that may

806
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:14,260
have felt left out so ... because of you know

807
00:54:14,260 --> 00:54:17,070
the some precedent time with all of that

808
00:54:17,070 --> 00:54:20,260
so that was so my my first comment ... or

809
00:54:20,510 --> 00:54:23,700
and this is the second comment ... I had I

810
00:54:23,700 --> 00:54:28,680
I was really pleased to see the discussion about ...

811
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:32,970
indoor and outdoor spaces for indigenous gatherings and cultural practices

812
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,160
Sam

813
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,010
and I I thought

814
00:54:37,010 --> 00:54:40,230
well firstly when I look at ... the hillside Quadra

815
00:54:40,730 --> 00:54:44,650
area I know ... a few folks that ... live

816
00:54:44,650 --> 00:54:47,390
in that area and they use the is of the

817
00:54:47,390 --> 00:54:50,350
estate will assign a lots was still called but the

818
00:54:50,350 --> 00:54:54,660
the fields as sort of their green area to kick

819
00:54:54,660 --> 00:54:58,040
a soccer ball or go for a Walker ... so

820
00:54:58,070 --> 00:55:00,570
you know I think in the future whether that some

821
00:55:00,610 --> 00:55:04,280
partnership or discussions with the school district on on some

822
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:07,040
of that land ... but

823
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,450
also I I don't know is from the staff for

824
00:55:11,450 --> 00:55:15,280
aware but across the street is the spot come house

825
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,930
which is ... and did you miss a housing for

826
00:55:18,930 --> 00:55:22,940
women and I know that ... they often go across

827
00:55:22,940 --> 00:55:26,690
the street to do some some you know whether it's

828
00:55:26,690 --> 00:55:29,420
... ...

829
00:55:29,420 --> 00:55:33,720
the talks whether it's some outdoor opportunities and so there

830
00:55:33,720 --> 00:55:37,040
that might be an opportunity to consider and partner with

831
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,430
some of some organizations ... for that but ... yeah

832
00:55:41,430 --> 00:55:44,910
I think they're the report covered a lot of areas

833
00:55:44,910 --> 00:55:46,510
of ...

834
00:55:46,510 --> 00:55:50,680
... that serve interested today roots and so that's all

835
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,400
I have to say for now I'll see what others

836
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,390
say thank you thanks councillor Thornton Joe councillor Loveday pots

837
00:55:56,390 --> 00:55:59,490
and then young

838
00:55:59,490 --> 00:56:02,290
thank you very much for all your work on this

839
00:56:02,290 --> 00:56:04,220
and and also to the

840
00:56:04,220 --> 00:56:06,670
... many members of the public that were involved in

841
00:56:06,670 --> 00:56:11,020
getting feedback and ideas so far I'm

842
00:56:11,020 --> 00:56:13,650
a couple of questions that are more broad strokes and

843
00:56:13,650 --> 00:56:15,200
then a couple more

844
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,750


845
00:56:16,750 --> 00:56:17,760


846
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,870
localized once I'm so one question that I think we

847
00:56:21,870 --> 00:56:25,170
will continue to come up is I. as we look

848
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:30,650
to see a redevelopment in uh village centers particularly I

849
00:56:30,790 --> 00:56:32,910
you know looking at this site I think of north

850
00:56:32,910 --> 00:56:38,110
park and Quadra village which are ... this is part

851
00:56:38,110 --> 00:56:42,470
of what makes them such great places is that they

852
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:46,010
have affordable rents and that ... that attracts diverse and

853
00:56:46,010 --> 00:56:48,330
interesting ...

854
00:56:48,330 --> 00:56:52,070
organizations and businesses to the ... to the store fronts

855
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:57,550
so as this plan ... could envision redevelopment of the

856
00:56:57,550 --> 00:57:01,770
sites how are there tools within ...

857
00:57:01,770 --> 00:57:07,530
the planning process that could allow us to protect the

858
00:57:07,530 --> 00:57:12,240
... you know against gentrification essentially adds as the development

859
00:57:12,330 --> 00:57:17,640
occurs

860
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,190
yes thank you councillor in through mayor helps it's it's

861
00:57:20,190 --> 00:57:23,950
certainly ... a critical question and it's one we've looked

862
00:57:23,950 --> 00:57:26,780
at and and wrestled with an looked at best practices

863
00:57:26,780 --> 00:57:29,480
that are are within the purview of of municipal government

864
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,640
in BC and some of the the strategies that we

865
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,070
would be explained further that are being proposed for for

866
00:57:36,070 --> 00:57:41,950
consultation include ... really valuing ... that that small footprint

867
00:57:41,950 --> 00:57:45,920
ownership pattern and so ... as happened in high streets

868
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:47,860
are main streets in the past you know if the

869
00:57:47,860 --> 00:57:51,930
building is aging or ... maybe a long term lease

870
00:57:51,930 --> 00:57:53,890
is up and the owner is looking to do something

871
00:57:53,890 --> 00:57:59,380
different ... right now contemporary parking standards tend to drive

872
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:03,600
a larger assemblage because there's certain economics and certain footprint

873
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:07,950
that's needed to build underground parking and so looking at

874
00:58:08,220 --> 00:58:10,510
more of the ways high streets involved in the past

875
00:58:10,510 --> 00:58:12,380
where you know what I don't or may choose to

876
00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:16,330
redevelop ... with a commercial storefront or two and perhaps

877
00:58:16,330 --> 00:58:18,850
two or three or four stories of of housing perhaps

878
00:58:18,850 --> 00:58:23,210
rental housing above ... and then to look at ...

879
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:27,310
within you development the policies call for looking at a

880
00:58:27,310 --> 00:58:30,990
diversity of commercial unit sizes up some of the things

881
00:58:30,990 --> 00:58:34,840
we've heard from businesses there are emerging businesses or sole

882
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:38,020
proprietor ... hair care for instance where they just really

883
00:58:38,020 --> 00:58:41,760
need a hundred fifty to three hundred square feet another

884
00:58:42,260 --> 00:58:45,960
idea that emerge from businesses was the value of public

885
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,020
seating that's not tied to one business but a quality

886
00:58:49,020 --> 00:58:52,690
public realm that welcomes all so that ... a food

887
00:58:52,690 --> 00:58:55,210
business doesn't have to lease enough space to have lots

888
00:58:55,210 --> 00:58:58,530
of indoor seating or an emerging business can be take

889
00:58:58,530 --> 00:59:00,730
out only and there's a place around the corner that's

890
00:59:00,730 --> 00:59:05,090
comfortable to set ... so it's certainly ... you know

891
00:59:05,090 --> 00:59:08,120
one of those questions ... a lot of vacant units

892
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:11,370
L. these grapple with this and ... there's opportunities to

893
00:59:11,370 --> 00:59:14,780
emphasize redevelopment around the village in the donut

894
00:59:14,780 --> 00:59:18,800
so to speak ... as well ... these plants look

895
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,190
to kind of take a balanced approach and so not

896
00:59:22,190 --> 00:59:25,990
to increase the density available through the OCP in villages

897
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:29,000
and to focus on ... some of the characteristics of

898
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,900
villages that can continue to provide diversity of spaces over

899
00:59:32,900 --> 00:59:35,840
time ... and maybe look to some of our surface

900
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:38,960
parking over the next two decades as opportunities to grow

901
00:59:39,060 --> 00:59:43,230
... what's happening in the villages

902
00:59:43,230 --> 00:59:47,090
thanks yeah I to me that some

903
00:59:47,090 --> 00:59:49,890
I look forward to how that engagement shakes out and

904
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,320
what tools get built into the plan I just ...

905
00:59:53,810 --> 00:59:55,730
that's one of my

906
00:59:55,730 --> 01:00:00,020
major concerns and priorities ... if we're looking at at

907
01:00:00,020 --> 01:00:04,630
north park village and ... I love the idea of

908
01:00:04,630 --> 01:00:08,920
a plaza and I'm wondering how ... the ball moral

909
01:00:09,120 --> 01:00:14,980
site was chosen rather than a different street

910
01:00:14,980 --> 01:00:17,370
check thank you for that question through the mayor ...

911
01:00:17,500 --> 01:00:20,120
see it the north park site was actually the first

912
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:23,800
site chosen and that was during our workshop service sort

913
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,010
of charrette process and it kind of came out through

914
01:00:26,010 --> 01:00:28,880
the community in conversations with the the planners and urban

915
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,750
designers were there and also as a a space that

916
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:33,720
was starting to evolve a little bit with that bill

917
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,590
back toria patios on the street already and so we

918
01:00:36,590 --> 01:00:38,830
kind of draft up that design and then as we

919
01:00:38,830 --> 01:00:40,940
took that idea out to the broader public and sort

920
01:00:40,940 --> 01:00:43,140
of the next up of engagement we heard some concerns

921
01:00:43,140 --> 01:00:46,230
from some of the businesses about access for deliveries and

922
01:00:46,230 --> 01:00:49,210
... limited parking in the area and so the suggestion

923
01:00:49,210 --> 01:00:52,740
of Balmoral is another good opportunity ... came up as

924
01:00:52,740 --> 01:00:55,430
well ... I I think it was largely because I

925
01:00:55,430 --> 01:00:57,610
had good space on the street and would still good

926
01:00:57,640 --> 01:01:01,530
... access and connectivity to the neighborhood ... and then

927
01:01:01,530 --> 01:01:04,860
beyond that there's also up the speaking ... being considered

928
01:01:04,860 --> 01:01:08,500
near a royal athletic park ... near the tiny home

929
01:01:08,500 --> 01:01:11,080
site and so that was sort of a third ideas

930
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,390
all of these ideas are are sort of out there

931
01:01:13,390 --> 01:01:15,280
now and we're trying to document them all through this

932
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:18,160
process and eventually in the plan as an opportunity for

933
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:20,640
businesses are community members to come through with something that's

934
01:01:20,640 --> 01:01:23,320
very community led and something that works for the neighborhood

935
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,780
itself but city supported ... through your place making another

936
01:01:26,780 --> 01:01:30,480
programs

937
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:35,030
great in looking at the

938
01:01:35,030 --> 01:01:37,030
all moral

939
01:01:37,030 --> 01:01:41,450
site I guess one of my questions is ... just

940
01:01:41,450 --> 01:01:43,030
with

941
01:01:43,030 --> 01:01:45,430
the

942
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:49,540
the developments there aren't as active ... on the street

943
01:01:49,540 --> 01:01:51,620
front is the other

944
01:01:51,620 --> 01:01:54,300
locations where you do have that in the fine green

945
01:01:54,330 --> 01:01:58,060
retail ends ...

946
01:01:58,060 --> 01:02:00,960
yep so off like I I think

947
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:05,000
you know I I'd always thought of the

948
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,820
the north north park site is ... it has potential

949
01:02:08,820 --> 01:02:10,960
plaza so surprised to see that but I'm I am

950
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,740
also very glad to that there's a plaza envisioned I

951
01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:18,740
think that that I'm high quality public space within north

952
01:02:18,740 --> 01:02:21,050
park will go a long way to building the village

953
01:02:21,670 --> 01:02:24,840
... one question on

954
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:31,050
looking at design of street scapes ... and pedestrian friendly

955
01:02:31,410 --> 01:02:37,120
yes ... of the idea of ball boats in say

956
01:02:37,260 --> 01:02:43,450
how would that ... interplay's with cycling in just wondering

957
01:02:43,480 --> 01:02:48,110
how that ... yeah overlays with ... cycle ability in

958
01:02:48,110 --> 01:02:55,160
design

959
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:56,870
okay

960
01:02:56,870 --> 01:02:58,330
I could

961
01:02:58,330 --> 01:03:01,080
the because of the the higher level nature of the

962
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,320
the local area plans we didn't wrestle specifically with those

963
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,110
we know it's something that can be considered ... through

964
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,440
more refined design or ... quarter studies I may look

965
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:16,360
to our transportation ... colleagues to elaborate if this is

966
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,680
more to say on that Mr Bellefontaine

967
01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:21,470
it can I guess eight thank you I would yeah

968
01:03:21,470 --> 01:03:25,950
I think you please and ... without looking at ...

969
01:03:25,950 --> 01:03:29,080
just the the longer term vision of cook street I

970
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:32,500
guess Pacific Lee

971
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:42,740
Cooksey through north park village yes exactly yeah

972
01:03:42,740 --> 01:03:44,710
Dylan Thomas can you test years do you have power

973
01:03:44,710 --> 01:03:46,670
either

974
01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:49,560
yes we have okay

975
01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:53,170
we

976
01:03:53,170 --> 01:03:55,050
okay and then out a break we'll see about power

977
01:03:55,050 --> 01:04:00,260
to planning and engineering all departments need power thank you

978
01:04:00,260 --> 01:04:02,060
if you could repeat the question about I think I

979
01:04:02,060 --> 01:04:05,570
understood I think the ... disk the question is about

980
01:04:05,570 --> 01:04:07,500
the ...

981
01:04:07,500 --> 01:04:10,770
... the ability to introduce curb bulges brought up the

982
01:04:10,770 --> 01:04:13,790
same time ensuring we turned to Saddam to cyclists is

983
01:04:13,790 --> 01:04:15,170
that the

984
01:04:15,170 --> 01:04:19,080
yes and so in the context of the longer term

985
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:24,650
vision for cook street specifically through the north park village

986
01:04:24,650 --> 01:04:27,970
right yes I mean that does this kind of two

987
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:32,140
layers to this there is the ... very rubber hits

988
01:04:32,140 --> 01:04:36,830
the roads detailed design component to that ... so that

989
01:04:36,860 --> 01:04:39,850
when we ought when if we're looking at pedestrian curb

990
01:04:39,850 --> 01:04:44,950
bulges ... ... to improve sightlines between parking for example

991
01:04:45,260 --> 01:04:49,050
and to reduce the distance the pedestrians have to cross

992
01:04:49,550 --> 01:04:53,660
... when there is ... when there are bicycle facilities

993
01:04:53,660 --> 01:04:56,540
that we do take that into account so that we

994
01:04:56,540 --> 01:05:02,640
don't squeeze for cyclists and force them to ... ...

995
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:07,530
have to compete with it ... vehicles unless of course

996
01:05:07,530 --> 01:05:11,600
we have designated that routes has already a shed cycling

997
01:05:11,920 --> 01:05:15,950
... the vehicle type ... corridor the cook street is

998
01:05:15,950 --> 01:05:19,840
an arterial road so you know the future that would

999
01:05:19,840 --> 01:05:25,850
likely be separated bicycle lanes with with through traffic ...

1000
01:05:25,850 --> 01:05:29,010
as as you heard already that that that the specific

1001
01:05:29,010 --> 01:05:33,040
designed sort of elements to that ... having pain sort

1002
01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,980
of looked at as part of this process but ...

1003
01:05:37,710 --> 01:05:42,340
we would always be very ... mindful that in whatever

1004
01:05:42,340 --> 01:05:46,300
was proposed that we would be protecting our ability to

1005
01:05:46,300 --> 01:05:50,240
introduce more ... high level by school facilities in the

1006
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,240
future that was a little bit of a roundabout response

1007
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,140
but it's something that would be very much top of

1008
01:05:55,140 --> 01:05:59,260
mind for us I think that that's some good enough

1009
01:05:59,340 --> 01:06:01,720
for now and when we get to the fine detailed

1010
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:03,920
design and

1011
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:06,150
that'll be great to learn more ... just wanted to

1012
01:06:06,150 --> 01:06:10,090
flag it I guess and ... on the

1013
01:06:10,090 --> 01:06:13,500
one more question ... handed off ... moving to Quadra

1014
01:06:13,500 --> 01:06:15,380
village ...

1015
01:06:15,380 --> 01:06:17,630
I thank you know I think one of the priorities

1016
01:06:17,660 --> 01:06:19,700
he's the

1017
01:06:19,700 --> 01:06:23,960
the maintenance of an arts site ... you know the

1018
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:28,610
rocks he plays a big role in ...

1019
01:06:28,610 --> 01:06:34,590
looking at the the plan calls for more ... heights

1020
01:06:34,590 --> 01:06:38,610
within the middle of the village I believe ... in

1021
01:06:38,750 --> 01:06:41,710
looking at if there were to be a a redevelopment

1022
01:06:41,870 --> 01:06:46,880
that would be able to ... have enough size to

1023
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:51,050
have a new theater ... for new artists facility ...

1024
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,940
it it may need to move towards that the corner

1025
01:06:53,940 --> 01:06:59,890
at hillside so I'm wondering if ... if that

1026
01:06:59,890 --> 01:07:04,350
I guess how the conversations about height and density ...

1027
01:07:04,380 --> 01:07:10,530
factor into the discussion of the Roxy sites specifically and

1028
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,760
... what is anticipated

1029
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,380
... what tools are anticipated to be able to allow

1030
01:07:18,380 --> 01:07:22,920
for the maintenance of something ... either the Roxy were

1031
01:07:23,140 --> 01:07:26,610
a site you know the rocks the site being continued

1032
01:07:26,610 --> 01:07:33,320
in its art arts use

1033
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,200
yeah thank you and through mayor helps some kind of

1034
01:07:36,200 --> 01:07:38,460
turning over in my mind this is that numerous aspects

1035
01:07:38,460 --> 01:07:41,730
it to how we support the arts in the local

1036
01:07:41,730 --> 01:07:44,570
area planning is is just one way to look for

1037
01:07:44,570 --> 01:07:48,350
opportunities in the case of the Roxy we saw two

1038
01:07:48,350 --> 01:07:51,690
things come together which was from the community side we

1039
01:07:51,690 --> 01:07:54,740
know that that theater while at the love card of

1040
01:07:54,910 --> 01:07:58,580
the neighborhood was not suiting the needs of the current

1041
01:07:58,580 --> 01:08:02,890
users and is at risk and so ... do it

1042
01:08:02,890 --> 01:08:05,970
there's already that the idea in the community for a

1043
01:08:05,970 --> 01:08:08,460
what could this look like as a more modern performance

1044
01:08:08,460 --> 01:08:12,840
space and that coincided with our ... arts and culture

1045
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:16,130
master planning which has identified the need for a two

1046
01:08:16,130 --> 01:08:18,860
hundred fifty to three hundred seat venue I believe ...

1047
01:08:18,860 --> 01:08:23,150
as part of our our cultural ecosystem and so we

1048
01:08:23,150 --> 01:08:26,900
looked at through the the the workshop process out what

1049
01:08:26,900 --> 01:08:29,750
would it mean to try to retain a theater use

1050
01:08:29,750 --> 01:08:32,230
into the future and is that something that could be

1051
01:08:32,230 --> 01:08:36,790
incorporated into a future development perhaps as an amenity space

1052
01:08:37,070 --> 01:08:40,510
... we know that's probably ... a pretty expensive amenity

1053
01:08:40,510 --> 01:08:43,360
we haven't you know run any financial figures on that

1054
01:08:43,360 --> 01:08:47,040
and so we consulted with the community ... you know

1055
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:49,500
would did the community be in favor of considering it

1056
01:08:49,500 --> 01:08:54,510
done additional density if a space ... that continued that

1057
01:08:54,510 --> 01:08:58,710
cultural function was included whether under current Roxy site or

1058
01:08:58,710 --> 01:09:01,440
perhaps and one of the other large sites and ...

1059
01:09:01,780 --> 01:09:03,480
you know there were there were a range of of

1060
01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:05,550
opinions on that I would say all all in all

1061
01:09:05,550 --> 01:09:09,650
of our survey participants were supportive ... there were you

1062
01:09:09,650 --> 01:09:12,560
know some who wanted to also see diverse housing opportunities

1063
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,520
and that some who felt their oxy should remain but

1064
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,400
they weren't comfortable with additional density to to deliver that

1065
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:23,110
amenity ... and then there are I take it all

1066
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:26,380
this possibilities for something like that to work in conjunction

1067
01:09:26,380 --> 01:09:30,190
with a non profit or possibly with the city throughout

1068
01:09:30,220 --> 01:09:31,060
an arts and culture

1069
01:09:31,060 --> 01:09:36,200
her role and so ... they did local area plan

1070
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:39,900
has identified that as a desired amenity ... but hasn't

1071
01:09:39,900 --> 01:09:44,000
gone too far beyond just sketching out some some rough

1072
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,810
ideas of maybe what something like that might look like

1073
01:09:46,810 --> 01:09:49,050
to help people envision it and not really get into

1074
01:09:49,050 --> 01:09:52,730
the site planning or nitty gritty of that this is

1075
01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:55,450
so with that in looking at this the feedback he

1076
01:09:55,450 --> 01:09:57,510
was ...

1077
01:09:57,510 --> 01:10:00,610
a positive to the idea of making so for sixty

1078
01:10:00,610 --> 01:10:06,140
percent with for six stories we're more which I think

1079
01:10:06,140 --> 01:10:07,720
is some

1080
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:10,870
I'm pretty strong feedback at an early stage so I'm

1081
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:14,290
I'm wondering I guess would do the corner site then

1082
01:10:14,350 --> 01:10:19,270
would put and I'm trying to ... understand ... the

1083
01:10:19,270 --> 01:10:22,110
two parts one that says the density closer to the

1084
01:10:22,140 --> 01:10:26,460
middle of the village and then also the strong support

1085
01:10:26,460 --> 01:10:30,300
for retaining and arts site and the are the rocks

1086
01:10:30,300 --> 01:10:33,260
is not on the corner but it's ... close to

1087
01:10:33,260 --> 01:10:36,010
the corner and so I think if you were having

1088
01:10:36,010 --> 01:10:40,490
a multi site development of some sort it would probably

1089
01:10:40,490 --> 01:10:42,780
move to the corner of and and so that's why

1090
01:10:42,780 --> 01:10:49,960
I'm just wondering if the current plan would allow that

1091
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,780
through mayor helps any apologies I didn't completely touched a

1092
01:10:52,780 --> 01:10:55,610
question the plan we would certainly allow that the plan

1093
01:10:55,610 --> 01:10:58,160
does look for a small public space at that corner

1094
01:10:58,160 --> 01:11:01,750
as well because it's a very well used ... transit

1095
01:11:01,780 --> 01:11:05,290
exchange as well as ... trying to anchor a little

1096
01:11:05,290 --> 01:11:09,290
bit ... that ... that intersection which feels like you're

1097
01:11:09,290 --> 01:11:11,480
sort of leaving the village right now when you get

1098
01:11:11,480 --> 01:11:15,550
there but ... yet the plan is fairly ... agnostic

1099
01:11:15,550 --> 01:11:18,880
to wear on the site something like the Roxy will

1100
01:11:18,910 --> 01:11:20,970
woodland and that would be something that I think would

1101
01:11:20,970 --> 01:11:25,250
be negotiated if it comes up through a development proposal

1102
01:11:25,250 --> 01:11:27,480
or or ... you know action of the city or

1103
01:11:27,480 --> 01:11:29,830
whatnot thank you very much I ended up for now

1104
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:32,530
thank you I've added you down later on ... on

1105
01:11:32,530 --> 01:11:37,380
the list councillor Potts is next and then counselor young

1106
01:11:37,380 --> 01:11:40,320
thanks a for a for all this work in and

1107
01:11:40,580 --> 01:11:42,840
certainly for what you've been able to accomplish and certainly

1108
01:11:42,840 --> 01:11:45,250
challenging time for engagement it's really exciting to look at

1109
01:11:45,250 --> 01:11:47,780
all these plans and see at what can be a

1110
01:11:47,780 --> 01:11:50,420
what is being envisioned for the next steps of of

1111
01:11:50,420 --> 01:11:53,590
building the city ... most of my comments will be

1112
01:11:53,620 --> 01:11:56,880
around north park in our in questions but just to

1113
01:11:56,880 --> 01:12:00,090
start off just for by my understanding and help framing

1114
01:12:00,090 --> 01:12:03,970
questions moving forward ... eat at the outset you said

1115
01:12:03,970 --> 01:12:07,860
there these are not ... finalize directions and you you're

1116
01:12:07,860 --> 01:12:11,540
seeking directions on next steps but ... is that really

1117
01:12:11,540 --> 01:12:14,350
looking at the particular options that are laid out within

1118
01:12:14,350 --> 01:12:17,100
each report or is their option so I think that

1119
01:12:17,130 --> 01:12:19,610
particular look looking at north park all of the themes

1120
01:12:19,610 --> 01:12:21,990
and the directions are exactly what what we've been hearing

1121
01:12:21,990 --> 01:12:25,820
but maybe just looking at particularly some of the road

1122
01:12:25,820 --> 01:12:28,690
closures there might be an option for another one is

1123
01:12:28,690 --> 01:12:31,560
it is it well within what what you're looking for

1124
01:12:31,560 --> 01:12:36,330
to suggest some of those other Roglic closure ideas

1125
01:12:36,330 --> 01:12:39,390
through the mayor yes and that's how it that kind

1126
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:42,810
of ... manifesto potentially next week when we come back

1127
01:12:42,810 --> 01:12:46,120
to council that would be through motion we could ...

1128
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:49,830
present that idea it's also good for engagement or just

1129
01:12:49,830 --> 01:12:53,220
a check in like how how would that SPS advanced

1130
01:12:53,250 --> 01:12:55,150
the process wise yeah so that's a bit different than

1131
01:12:55,150 --> 01:12:57,130
drawing green lines on a map or not and I

1132
01:12:57,130 --> 01:12:59,830
think those kinds of directions should come from council to

1133
01:12:59,830 --> 01:13:02,760
staff to consult with on you know X. block being

1134
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:04,960
closed as part of the next phase of engagement rather

1135
01:13:04,960 --> 01:13:07,140
than just hoping it comes up in the public so

1136
01:13:07,140 --> 01:13:09,170
what we'll do that by motion next week that's great

1137
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,450
okay thanks for that ... because yeah yes it was

1138
01:13:12,450 --> 01:13:15,450
really exciting to read at the north park plan and

1139
01:13:15,450 --> 01:13:17,460
and just really see you got a lot of the

1140
01:13:17,460 --> 01:13:20,270
themes that but I've been hearing to to be reflected

1141
01:13:20,270 --> 01:13:24,090
within it ... but then just thinking about some of

1142
01:13:24,090 --> 01:13:26,890
the other things that are happening north park right now

1143
01:13:26,890 --> 01:13:29,390
and some of the things actually that actually is we're

1144
01:13:29,390 --> 01:13:31,490
in the nineteen ninety six local area plan to that

1145
01:13:31,490 --> 01:13:35,560
still rain true like thinking about how I'm planning around

1146
01:13:35,560 --> 01:13:38,300
concentrations of social housing projects and we're seeing a lot

1147
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:41,330
more that and releasing a desire within the neighborhood to

1148
01:13:41,330 --> 01:13:45,920
really lean into that ... and in really creating an

1149
01:13:46,450 --> 01:13:50,930
out neighborly elements and really thinking about planning ... around

1150
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:55,680
these new sites to ensure that ... in community wellness

1151
01:13:55,680 --> 01:14:01,050
for all so thinking ... particularly about ... the potential

1152
01:14:01,050 --> 01:14:06,320
of a new ... a community center and thinking about

1153
01:14:06,590 --> 01:14:09,960
it you know BC housing will be on the developing

1154
01:14:09,960 --> 01:14:11,980
that but that would just be the building but what

1155
01:14:12,010 --> 01:14:14,460
could the city work at the city lean into around

1156
01:14:14,490 --> 01:14:17,510
that to ensure that that ... and I know part

1157
01:14:17,510 --> 01:14:20,530
of that is it's adjacent to north park but also

1158
01:14:20,530 --> 01:14:23,420
downtown but just thinking about how

1159
01:14:23,420 --> 01:14:29,360
how ... potentially a Mason street between ... Quadra and

1160
01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,240
Vancouver there is potential for some road closure park space

1161
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,950
there to build it thank you madam the space that

1162
01:14:36,140 --> 01:14:40,000
could ... extend from the community center and just really

1163
01:14:40,000 --> 01:14:42,770
thinking about how what a comprehensive up a plan for

1164
01:14:42,770 --> 01:14:45,240
that and also runs ... on Balmoral where there will

1165
01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:47,960
be some new I'm social housing there's been quite a

1166
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,350
bit a desire within the community to think about what

1167
01:14:50,350 --> 01:14:52,690
kind of park let's and spaces could be developed around

1168
01:14:52,690 --> 01:14:55,580
there to build bridges between the Mason street farm area

1169
01:14:55,580 --> 01:15:01,520
and and that developments really again encourage ... at

1170
01:15:01,520 --> 01:15:04,430
encouraged great ... additions to the neighborhood with the new

1171
01:15:04,430 --> 01:15:11,170
neighbors ... and then also thinking about ...

1172
01:15:11,170 --> 01:15:13,600
there you know what I last week I council we

1173
01:15:13,600 --> 01:15:16,650
discussed some of the the robotic park in and community

1174
01:15:16,650 --> 01:15:20,060
uses and ...

1175
01:15:20,060 --> 01:15:22,940
it's not that is reflected with within this work but

1176
01:15:22,980 --> 01:15:27,810
... just wondering ... on page fifty nine under the

1177
01:15:27,810 --> 01:15:31,650
plan city initiatives I think since since probably this was

1178
01:15:31,650 --> 01:15:34,330
written there's been some changes to the strategic plans there

1179
01:15:34,890 --> 01:15:37,780
would need to be some updates what you're up probably

1180
01:15:37,780 --> 01:15:41,000
definitely aware of but just wondering if on that list

1181
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,870
would be would there also be the inclusion of ...

1182
01:15:43,970 --> 01:15:49,030
investigating ... re envisioning that community use several athletic park

1183
01:15:49,030 --> 01:15:50,960
could that would that be added to the list as

1184
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:57,590
well

1185
01:15:57,590 --> 01:16:00,850
... so with respect to ... that type of initiative

1186
01:16:00,850 --> 01:16:03,490
I think the the level of detail that this plan

1187
01:16:03,490 --> 01:16:06,210
is that is probably ... the probably more appropriate to

1188
01:16:06,210 --> 01:16:09,900
focus on the future of long term use of rough

1189
01:16:09,900 --> 01:16:12,570
at a park in this sort of vision development for

1190
01:16:12,570 --> 01:16:15,710
that facility that has been discussed with council so ...

1191
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:18,600
as we look to the the financial plan ... in

1192
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,220
made opportunities for major initiatives in the coming years ...

1193
01:16:22,250 --> 01:16:24,860
you'll see that staff identified that given all the discussion

1194
01:16:24,860 --> 01:16:28,450
that we've had with council and in the last year

1195
01:16:28,450 --> 01:16:31,360
so ... but I think the the sort of the

1196
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:36,750
spirit of the increased use and particularly ... communities across

1197
01:16:36,750 --> 01:16:39,040
like park is is sort of woven into this but

1198
01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:41,890
... but as I say that this room larger initiative

1199
01:16:41,890 --> 01:16:47,300
is that the the long term plan for that facility

1200
01:16:47,300 --> 01:16:49,340
okay yeah I just I think there's I've just heard

1201
01:16:49,340 --> 01:16:51,620
some comments to make set from the community to wanna

1202
01:16:51,620 --> 01:16:54,030
see that really clearly reflected I will though it is

1203
01:16:54,030 --> 01:16:57,870
woven definitely through the document just some ... that if

1204
01:16:57,870 --> 01:16:59,810
it's free they feel it's really important to consider as

1205
01:16:59,810 --> 01:17:01,790
part of their green space and and and part of

1206
01:17:01,790 --> 01:17:04,440
the planning ... and then I just I really appreciated

1207
01:17:04,440 --> 01:17:09,020
the comments made about at the need to protect ...

1208
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,460
rental at or aging or or the older rental stock

1209
01:17:12,460 --> 01:17:15,410
as we're moving forward with this plan and and and

1210
01:17:15,410 --> 01:17:19,350
also the comments around you know needing more multi family

1211
01:17:19,550 --> 01:17:23,550
housing and and and rental residential areas and more potentially

1212
01:17:23,550 --> 01:17:27,860
more density for some rental ... and looking at north

1213
01:17:27,860 --> 01:17:32,190
park they have a lot of ... privately owned rental

1214
01:17:32,190 --> 01:17:35,440
housing in SROs that are aging and kind of really

1215
01:17:35,440 --> 01:17:39,340
represents a great deal of unprotected affordable housing in the

1216
01:17:39,340 --> 01:17:42,160
city and I think I just wanted to make a

1217
01:17:42,160 --> 01:17:44,800
point of saying how yeah it's gonna be really important

1218
01:17:44,800 --> 01:17:47,310
within these next steps to ensure that we are able

1219
01:17:47,310 --> 01:17:52,590
to protect those ... ... those building so I was

1220
01:17:52,590 --> 01:17:54,600
actually just I guess my question is to miss his

1221
01:17:54,600 --> 01:17:57,800
that if ... I'm just wondering where we're at at

1222
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:02,040
with ... market rental protection and revitalization project or policy

1223
01:18:02,040 --> 01:18:06,570
sorry or specifically that the rental property licensing bylaw and

1224
01:18:06,570 --> 01:18:10,600
just thinking ... thinking that as we're moving forward with

1225
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:15,760
that those those are going to be really key policies

1226
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:26,040


1227
01:18:30,210 --> 01:18:31,520
I'm

1228
01:18:31,520 --> 01:18:34,600
councillor Potts near your question about the ... the rental

1229
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,160
business licensing bylaw we were hoping to bring that to

1230
01:18:37,160 --> 01:18:39,430
you ... in the coming weeks but we've had a

1231
01:18:39,430 --> 01:18:42,200
staff departure and so we will now be bringing that

1232
01:18:42,200 --> 01:18:44,300
work to you in early September just to allow our

1233
01:18:44,300 --> 01:18:45,680
new staff to get up to speed on the new

1234
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:50,360
provincial legislation regarding the residential tenancy act ... so we

1235
01:18:50,360 --> 01:18:52,850
will have some advice ... on that in the coming

1236
01:18:52,850 --> 01:18:56,780
months ... and we will have some other work starting

1237
01:18:56,810 --> 01:18:59,040
... later in the year we had hoped that we

1238
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:00,880
would ...

1239
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:03,570
we would restart and I project that we did start

1240
01:19:03,570 --> 01:19:07,290
working on last year with respect to incentivizing ... new

1241
01:19:07,290 --> 01:19:10,140
purpose built rental and so we're hoping to resume that

1242
01:19:10,140 --> 01:19:13,170
work in the fall ... as well as the Mars

1243
01:19:13,170 --> 01:19:17,360
pilot project which is to consider ... size making energy

1244
01:19:17,390 --> 01:19:20,580
upgrades ... for rental buildings so yes all of the

1245
01:19:20,580 --> 01:19:22,410
things are on our radar we're hoping to start those

1246
01:19:22,410 --> 01:19:25,470
in the fall when we get stuffed up great great

1247
01:19:25,470 --> 01:19:27,720
that's really exciting I think that ... yeah as we

1248
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:31,040
move forward that particular that protects that protects protection of

1249
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:35,430
existing affordable rentals going to be really important ...

1250
01:19:35,430 --> 01:19:37,030
at the

1251
01:19:37,030 --> 01:19:40,640
I guess one final question before I see the floor

1252
01:19:40,640 --> 01:19:44,980
just wondering ... there's some elements within then but previous

1253
01:19:44,980 --> 01:19:48,030
local area plan and how some of those initiatives that

1254
01:19:48,030 --> 01:19:53,390
still ... cut ... might be carried forward and into

1255
01:19:53,390 --> 01:19:55,890
to the next into the next phase of plantings this

1256
01:19:55,890 --> 01:19:59,160
I just know that there was a strong comments around

1257
01:19:59,190 --> 01:20:01,220
... and maybe I'm not sure if this was hurt

1258
01:20:01,220 --> 01:20:04,520
at all but ... at a desire for coal opposing

1259
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:08,180
within north park and also ... I'd like I'd mentioned

1260
01:20:08,380 --> 01:20:12,220
... planning around concentrations of social housing projects and I'm

1261
01:20:12,220 --> 01:20:15,080
wondering is there ... I thought to house some of

1262
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:17,820
those might be carried through into the into the the

1263
01:20:17,820 --> 01:20:21,560
station fan of of planning or ... are those kind

1264
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:23,480
of

1265
01:20:23,480 --> 01:20:29,950
are they not ambition to cater

1266
01:20:29,950 --> 01:20:35,050
thank you and through the acting mayor ... a ...

1267
01:20:35,230 --> 01:20:37,190
I think you those are wonderful comments we've heard the

1268
01:20:37,190 --> 01:20:40,990
same comments around ... ... building community around the social

1269
01:20:40,990 --> 01:20:43,720
housing and embracing that we've heard that a lot in

1270
01:20:43,720 --> 01:20:45,220
a and I hope we get to explore that as

1271
01:20:45,220 --> 01:20:47,520
part of north park's identity in this next phase of

1272
01:20:47,520 --> 01:20:50,370
engagement and ensure that it comes through very clearly in

1273
01:20:50,370 --> 01:20:53,390
their plans so I think that element with

1274
01:20:53,390 --> 01:20:56,080
be carried forward or brought to its next iteration through

1275
01:20:56,080 --> 01:20:59,490
this planning process ... in terms of the coop housing

1276
01:20:59,520 --> 01:21:02,260
... I I would I would like to probably defer

1277
01:21:02,260 --> 01:21:04,220
to one of my housing colleagues but I believe that's

1278
01:21:04,220 --> 01:21:06,780
something that we would probably consider it a city wide

1279
01:21:06,780 --> 01:21:09,090
scale ... in in ways that we can support that

1280
01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:12,320
through broad housing policy rather than through neighbourhood plan specific

1281
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,830
to one area

1282
01:21:14,830 --> 01:21:18,140
that certainly makes a lot of sense okay ... I

1283
01:21:18,140 --> 01:21:21,320
think those are my questions ... for now but thanks

1284
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:24,640
again for the work on this

1285
01:21:24,640 --> 01:21:29,770
consideration your next

1286
01:21:29,770 --> 01:21:31,170
thank you

1287
01:21:31,170 --> 01:21:32,680


1288
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:36,100
just looking at them first of all I am sorry

1289
01:21:36,180 --> 01:21:38,790
I agree with them

1290
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:43,190
... one of the the broad changes that's proposed the

1291
01:21:43,790 --> 01:21:49,990
... the idea of increasing densities along arterials

1292
01:21:49,990 --> 01:21:55,630
but in terms of implementation

1293
01:21:55,630 --> 01:21:59,390
the following questions is looking at H.

1294
01:21:59,390 --> 01:22:02,720
3 of

1295
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:06,200
appendix

1296
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:11,340
which is in appendix B. I guess proposed changes

1297
01:22:11,340 --> 01:22:14,800
looking at the

1298
01:22:14,800 --> 01:22:20,730
basically the chart shows two sets of densities one showing

1299
01:22:20,730 --> 01:22:25,190
approximate density which is under the official community plan and

1300
01:22:25,190 --> 01:22:29,260
local area plans as human then a second things showing

1301
01:22:29,260 --> 01:22:31,940
approximate bonus density

1302
01:22:31,940 --> 01:22:36,820
... which is ... and and saying inclusionary zoning and

1303
01:22:36,820 --> 01:22:43,740
community amenity policy and those approximate bonus densities are basically

1304
01:22:43,740 --> 01:22:48,880
double the approximate density so I guess my question is

1305
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:54,070
is this really a plan that that says ...

1306
01:22:54,070 --> 01:22:59,910
we ... and this does two things inclusionary housing essentially

1307
01:22:59,950 --> 01:23:03,190
I think is going to mean ... these are all

1308
01:23:03,190 --> 01:23:08,380
rental buildings or and the community amenity policy A. I.

1309
01:23:08,500 --> 01:23:12,630
I guess means they are all gonna pay in order

1310
01:23:12,630 --> 01:23:18,670
to develop any other form of housing ... what is

1311
01:23:18,670 --> 01:23:23,370
is this really a plan that's basically implementing rental only

1312
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:28,580
only zoning or is it a plan that's ... saying

1313
01:23:29,070 --> 01:23:35,100
... you can densify in these areas provided ... you

1314
01:23:35,100 --> 01:23:38,350
make a contribution to cash in in effect a cash

1315
01:23:38,350 --> 01:23:41,230
contribution given the size of the site site I think

1316
01:23:41,230 --> 01:23:42,800
it's

1317
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:44,970
I think it's who were more likely to be talking

1318
01:23:44,970 --> 01:23:49,850
cash contributions rather than physical amenities ... except in a

1319
01:23:49,850 --> 01:23:54,380
few instances ... so so what is the plan really

1320
01:23:54,380 --> 01:24:00,050
intending and is there enough certainty ... about what is

1321
01:24:00,050 --> 01:24:02,780
intended that you're actually going to get development or will

1322
01:24:02,780 --> 01:24:08,440
you just get along and the gauche Yeading ... processes

1323
01:24:08,440 --> 01:24:11,660
as people try and figure out what we do what

1324
01:24:11,810 --> 01:24:15,580
what density we really mean doing mean the little density

1325
01:24:15,750 --> 01:24:17,700
under the plan or do we need I mean the

1326
01:24:17,700 --> 01:24:24,460
big density under the bonus density

1327
01:24:24,460 --> 01:24:28,670
thank you and directing their Dubow a D. the land

1328
01:24:28,670 --> 01:24:31,890
use structured that the land use proposals within the local

1329
01:24:31,890 --> 01:24:34,910
area plan are intended to work together with city wide

1330
01:24:34,910 --> 01:24:39,010
policies and what we want to do is ... because

1331
01:24:39,010 --> 01:24:42,030
if this is a ... looking for twenty years we

1332
01:24:42,030 --> 01:24:45,770
want to remain flexible to housing needs as they evolve

1333
01:24:45,770 --> 01:24:49,420
and city policies as they involve and so the ...

1334
01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:52,890
densities proposed for the base density and for the higher

1335
01:24:52,890 --> 01:24:57,820
density are meant to enable the application of the city's

1336
01:24:57,820 --> 01:25:01,640
broader policies such as the inclusionary housing and community amenity

1337
01:25:01,640 --> 01:25:05,150
policy ... which we know is updated from time to

1338
01:25:05,150 --> 01:25:07,880
time as far as what the targets that that council

1339
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,470
would like to see it in new development are these

1340
01:25:11,470 --> 01:25:15,880
two densities were chosen the ... the bonus density up

1341
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,020
to two to one floor space ratio is the current

1342
01:25:19,070 --> 01:25:24,080
... maximum density approximately that's in our official community plan

1343
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:28,090
and the two point five to one ... emerged in

1344
01:25:28,090 --> 01:25:32,270
part from our economic analysis and urban design testing as

1345
01:25:32,270 --> 01:25:35,160
a form that fits well within which usually wood frame

1346
01:25:35,160 --> 01:25:39,750
construction now and provides us at the potential to really

1347
01:25:39,750 --> 01:25:44,610
... um C. benefits gained through the application of that

1348
01:25:44,610 --> 01:25:48,740
inclusionary housing and community amenity policy ... but the we

1349
01:25:48,740 --> 01:25:54,420
don't anticipate through local area plans having specific ... inclusionary

1350
01:25:54,420 --> 01:25:59,110
housing or community amenity targets different than the city wide

1351
01:25:59,110 --> 01:26:03,110
policies a council has enacted as well as you know

1352
01:26:03,110 --> 01:26:05,760
policies that made him that that our plan to emerge

1353
01:26:05,760 --> 01:26:08,920
from the housing strategy such as the family housing policy

1354
01:26:09,410 --> 01:26:13,300
... but these plans don't ... don't speak to rental

1355
01:26:13,300 --> 01:26:16,800
only ... the to speak to looking perhaps of how

1356
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:20,720
we would apply rental residential rental ten years owning to

1357
01:26:20,980 --> 01:26:22,570
select areas perhaps

1358
01:26:22,570 --> 01:26:24,280
and

1359
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,680
you know that may not preclude the development of other

1360
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,830
housing types both at lower densities as we see sometimes

1361
01:26:30,830 --> 01:26:36,080
or Stratotankers

1362
01:26:36,080 --> 01:26:42,240
thank you I guess I would suggest that

1363
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:46,450
the the variety of objectives that we may be trying

1364
01:26:46,450 --> 01:26:52,880
to achieve ... that is a rental family housing

1365
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:58,850
... some some rental within a larger project is likely

1366
01:26:58,850 --> 01:27:05,390
to ... produce ... a situation where we we don't

1367
01:27:05,390 --> 01:27:07,310
get the response

1368
01:27:07,310 --> 01:27:10,990
we expected as because people are trying to figure out

1369
01:27:10,990 --> 01:27:14,540
what it is so we really want which may vary

1370
01:27:14,540 --> 01:27:18,600
between different council members and and ...

1371
01:27:18,600 --> 01:27:23,430
with one wanting family housing and one wanting low income

1372
01:27:23,460 --> 01:27:27,750
some within combined with condos and some wanting all rental

1373
01:27:27,750 --> 01:27:32,050
it's yeah I I I'm I'm concerned that ...

1374
01:27:32,050 --> 01:27:37,590
in fact what what would you wear them

1375
01:27:37,590 --> 01:27:40,580
we're defeating our objectives

1376
01:27:40,580 --> 01:27:42,880
anyway

1377
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:47,080
the second thing that I I also agree with in

1378
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:53,930
principle is the ... some of the suggestions about ...

1379
01:27:54,020 --> 01:27:55,670
the ...

1380
01:27:55,670 --> 01:27:58,110
just trying to find the reference so people can look

1381
01:27:58,110 --> 01:28:04,460
at it ... appendix CD ... age thirty one ...

1382
01:28:04,460 --> 01:28:09,540
the the concept of ... the kind of thing you

1383
01:28:09,690 --> 01:28:14,630
we want along arterials which is ...

1384
01:28:14,630 --> 01:28:16,780


1385
01:28:16,780 --> 01:28:19,300
basically

1386
01:28:19,300 --> 01:28:24,490
... who closely tighter front setbacks of fairly generous ...

1387
01:28:24,490 --> 01:28:30,030
rear setbacks and ... stepping back

1388
01:28:30,030 --> 01:28:35,410
... but again ... even even in the illustration we

1389
01:28:35,410 --> 01:28:38,810
see ... from over one and a half story house

1390
01:28:39,470 --> 01:28:45,970
... adjacent to ... five story apartment building and and

1391
01:28:46,190 --> 01:28:49,660
... hi ask whether

1392
01:28:49,660 --> 01:28:58,450
we shouldn't make some specific consideration for

1393
01:28:58,450 --> 01:29:03,280
greater densification in those adjacent lots of very much as

1394
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,490
we as this council approved to that I think within

1395
01:29:06,490 --> 01:29:08,340
the last two or three weeks when we had a

1396
01:29:08,340 --> 01:29:13,950
very similar situation I guess long Quadra where somebody in

1397
01:29:13,950 --> 01:29:17,930
the house behind came forward and said to we want

1398
01:29:17,930 --> 01:29:20,260
to build a third house on the on the lot

1399
01:29:20,290 --> 01:29:25,140
and we said okay that's an acceptable form of densification

1400
01:29:25,170 --> 01:29:28,620
in in a location such as this

1401
01:29:28,620 --> 01:29:34,030
and and I I I think that

1402
01:29:34,030 --> 01:29:40,030
that is something that we should probably encourage ... at

1403
01:29:40,030 --> 01:29:45,920
the same time hi I really have some of very

1404
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:51,520
deep concerns about one of the suggestions which is ...

1405
01:29:51,790 --> 01:30:00,400
random intensification in the traditional neighborhoods ... which ... is

1406
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:05,740
seen as for example suggested on corner lots which I

1407
01:30:05,740 --> 01:30:10,090
think is seen by this plan as being a way

1408
01:30:10,090 --> 01:30:15,530
of producing rental accommodation in in quieter neighborhoods that I

1409
01:30:15,530 --> 01:30:20,560
think would be seen by many people as as basically

1410
01:30:21,190 --> 01:30:25,730
... taking advantage of ... some of the amenities in

1411
01:30:25,730 --> 01:30:29,410
a way that's not reproducible that is you build a

1412
01:30:29,440 --> 01:30:33,910
high building ... within a traditional neighborhood where houses are

1413
01:30:33,910 --> 01:30:36,620
one and a half stories high and you build a

1414
01:30:36,620 --> 01:30:41,140
three story building you have great views great overlook into

1415
01:30:41,140 --> 01:30:44,710
green space ... but

1416
01:30:44,710 --> 01:30:47,810
if somebody else build another one adjacent you don't have

1417
01:30:47,810 --> 01:30:51,090
those views are those seven

1418
01:30:51,090 --> 01:30:57,080
... that ... pleasant overlook anymore and also you can

1419
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,500
have low parking because he can spread your cars all

1420
01:31:00,500 --> 01:31:06,680
along the street ... but again it's not reproducible and

1421
01:31:06,680 --> 01:31:11,960
so I guess the the argument will be made and

1422
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:14,880
I've been interested in your comments that when you're suggesting

1423
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:17,470
very high densities

1424
01:31:17,470 --> 01:31:25,800
a randomly spread through traditional neighborhoods you really allowing a

1425
01:31:25,860 --> 01:31:27,150
...

1426
01:31:27,150 --> 01:31:31,670
these new units to take advantage of the amenities that

1427
01:31:31,670 --> 01:31:37,100
are being provided by those ... traditional neighborhoods in a

1428
01:31:37,100 --> 01:31:43,180
way that ... reduces their level of amenity that is

1429
01:31:43,780 --> 01:31:46,980
you get the the nice overlook from the new buildings

1430
01:31:47,020 --> 01:31:52,250
but the older building is now overlooked and it's the

1431
01:31:52,250 --> 01:31:56,300
usefulness of its backyard is reduced

1432
01:31:56,300 --> 01:31:59,120
... I don't don't know if you'd like to comment

1433
01:31:59,120 --> 01:32:05,700
on that

1434
01:32:05,700 --> 01:32:09,790
thank you councillor in through the acting mayor of as

1435
01:32:09,790 --> 01:32:14,210
one consideration for what's been proposed in that that the

1436
01:32:14,210 --> 01:32:18,140
areas we've identified as mixed density areas and those are

1437
01:32:18,140 --> 01:32:22,410
areas we heard from many stakeholders as places where people

1438
01:32:22,410 --> 01:32:26,630
wanted to have opportunities to live in multi family housing

1439
01:32:26,630 --> 01:32:31,120
be that strata rental ... you know certainly there's interest

1440
01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:36,700
from from renters ... as well ... we looked carefully

1441
01:32:36,700 --> 01:32:41,020
at through some act through some urban design testing what

1442
01:32:41,020 --> 01:32:45,260
kind of densities can be achieved ... in these areas

1443
01:32:45,290 --> 01:32:49,210
in a way that still allows step downs ... that

1444
01:32:49,210 --> 01:32:52,550
allows the setbacks we're looking for not just on corridors

1445
01:32:52,550 --> 01:32:58,000
but on all sites ... and so ... studios are

1446
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,400
being incorporated into the design guidelines certainly ... it's a

1447
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:05,680
question we'll be asking ... when we go out for

1448
01:33:05,680 --> 01:33:07,740
the next round of engagement as far as the level

1449
01:33:07,740 --> 01:33:12,960
of support ... for those ideas but ... we're definitely

1450
01:33:13,200 --> 01:33:17,760
because of that that's where the density ... limit that

1451
01:33:17,790 --> 01:33:20,290
we've proposed came from and we know it's one that

1452
01:33:20,580 --> 01:33:24,640
maybe just on the cusp of viability for market rental

1453
01:33:24,640 --> 01:33:30,250
housing ... but certainly supports ... the ability to slowly

1454
01:33:30,250 --> 01:33:34,480
or perhaps I should say incrementally incorporate ...

1455
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:38,650
okay family housing in those areas

1456
01:33:38,650 --> 01:33:42,320
thank you just one more sort of narrow question height

1457
01:33:42,380 --> 01:33:45,500
he said I thought I saw somewhere in all this

1458
01:33:45,500 --> 01:33:49,530
material and I didn't know where some suggestion that the

1459
01:33:49,570 --> 01:33:56,030
... Fernwood square ... would now who would in in

1460
01:33:56,030 --> 01:34:00,670
... trying to ... sort of increase the vitality of

1461
01:34:00,670 --> 01:34:06,600
that square would now allow ... ... vehicles to transit

1462
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:11,820
either one way or the other along Gladstone west of

1463
01:34:12,210 --> 01:34:15,090
west confirmed would

1464
01:34:15,090 --> 01:34:18,270
is is that was that a suggestion ... was being

1465
01:34:18,270 --> 01:34:24,730
made or not

1466
01:34:24,730 --> 01:34:28,060
re ... re opening as you as you re opening

1467
01:34:28,060 --> 01:34:30,300
the square on the west side

1468
01:34:30,300 --> 01:34:33,530
oh no through the acting mayor sorry I

1469
01:34:33,530 --> 01:34:36,170
that may be because of the perspective of the drawing

1470
01:34:36,170 --> 01:34:39,360
that it is yeah I know that that

1471
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:43,470
no okay okay thank you

1472
01:34:43,470 --> 01:34:45,860
anyone else

1473
01:34:45,860 --> 01:34:51,630
okay mark oh yeah hi consuls and I'll tell thank

1474
01:34:51,630 --> 01:34:53,150
you very much

1475
01:34:53,150 --> 01:34:55,610
unlike the others all ... thank you for your of

1476
01:34:55,610 --> 01:34:58,700
remarkable working presentations ... so much information and many of

1477
01:34:58,700 --> 01:35:00,890
my questions have been asked and answered I just had

1478
01:35:00,890 --> 01:35:03,500
a couple of small ones ...

1479
01:35:03,500 --> 01:35:05,920
in the ... I think it's appendix B. the one

1480
01:35:05,920 --> 01:35:08,170
that looks at what's coming

1481
01:35:08,170 --> 01:35:12,070
... you make a reference and I think it's on

1482
01:35:12,470 --> 01:35:16,770
the second to last slide slide seven there's a reference

1483
01:35:16,770 --> 01:35:20,710
there to modernizing parking requirements he did speak a little

1484
01:35:20,710 --> 01:35:22,410
bit to this is your answer to council of this

1485
01:35:22,410 --> 01:35:25,660
question earlier but I wonder if you could just explain

1486
01:35:25,660 --> 01:35:27,820
a bit more about what you imagine that would look

1487
01:35:27,820 --> 01:35:32,400
like

1488
01:35:32,400 --> 01:35:34,620
thank you and through acting mayor I may start this

1489
01:35:34,620 --> 01:35:36,600
one off of the from the the look like a

1490
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:41,370
planning perspective and if our transportation colleagues have ... broader

1491
01:35:41,370 --> 01:35:44,120
at ways of addressing this but to two of the

1492
01:35:44,120 --> 01:35:48,980
things that emerge specifically ... towards local area planning we

1493
01:35:48,980 --> 01:35:52,870
talked about both parking management referring to the public ...

1494
01:35:52,870 --> 01:35:56,490
parking supply to seventy thousand on street spaces we have

1495
01:35:56,940 --> 01:36:01,790
and ... parking modernization of the requirements for new development

1496
01:36:02,210 --> 01:36:06,590
and one thing we saw in our economic testing and

1497
01:36:06,590 --> 01:36:10,440
in looking at urban design ... is that too two

1498
01:36:10,440 --> 01:36:13,320
of the objectives a few of the practice rather of

1499
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:17,280
of the local area plans ... there's some tension with

1500
01:36:17,320 --> 01:36:20,030
the way parking may or may not be treated ...

1501
01:36:20,030 --> 01:36:22,570
and two of the forms in particular we were looking

1502
01:36:22,570 --> 01:36:26,810
at is one supporting rental housing and to supporting ...

1503
01:36:26,810 --> 01:36:31,410
debility for incremental or small scale change within villages and

1504
01:36:31,440 --> 01:36:35,710
those both require a modernization of how we look at

1505
01:36:36,130 --> 01:36:39,880
parking requirements ... in rental in particular we found that

1506
01:36:40,620 --> 01:36:44,670
when you get really above one space per two units

1507
01:36:44,700 --> 01:36:49,620
... it becomes very financially difficult to achieve market rental

1508
01:36:49,620 --> 01:36:54,640
housing ... but interestingly through variance ... we tend not

1509
01:36:54,640 --> 01:36:57,610
to see much more parking than that if that much

1510
01:36:57,610 --> 01:37:00,720
so it's very in line with ... what we're actually

1511
01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:06,190
seeing recently the trend and so we look particularly at

1512
01:37:06,220 --> 01:37:10,320
those two aspects of modernization I think a third area

1513
01:37:10,660 --> 01:37:14,720
where this comes up and it speaks to compatibility with

1514
01:37:14,720 --> 01:37:19,040
the neighborhoods is that ... one thing we've been hearing

1515
01:37:19,040 --> 01:37:22,130
loud and clear in multiple engagements is that people value

1516
01:37:22,600 --> 01:37:24,650
because we don't have lane ways in particular and most

1517
01:37:24,650 --> 01:37:28,180
of the Tor yet that interior block pattern of green

1518
01:37:28,180 --> 01:37:29,770
spaces where the the so

1519
01:37:29,770 --> 01:37:33,220
... is more than that the parts and ... so

1520
01:37:33,220 --> 01:37:38,580
wanting to reiterate that without ... pushing a lot of

1521
01:37:38,580 --> 01:37:42,100
pavement and surface parking to the rear of buildings but

1522
01:37:42,130 --> 01:37:45,530
rather create a space that's both amenity for the residents

1523
01:37:45,810 --> 01:37:50,040
... that is a sensitive transition to what's around and

1524
01:37:50,040 --> 01:37:53,360
that supports our urban forest and said those three aspects

1525
01:37:53,360 --> 01:37:58,970
... we recognize requires a modernization ... of the way

1526
01:37:58,970 --> 01:38:01,250
we look at parking and I know that relates to

1527
01:38:01,250 --> 01:38:04,570
go Victoria which I'll defer to my transportation colleagues to

1528
01:38:04,570 --> 01:38:07,800
address

1529
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:09,240
with that

1530
01:38:09,240 --> 01:38:10,250
it

1531
01:38:10,250 --> 01:38:12,900
I was just curious because I wondered if when when

1532
01:38:12,930 --> 01:38:15,570
some council will have to start grappling with the whole

1533
01:38:15,570 --> 01:38:20,850
issue of on street parking and ... how that's used

1534
01:38:20,850 --> 01:38:23,510
essentially under what circumstances some wondered if that was sort

1535
01:38:23,510 --> 01:38:27,100
of part of your longer term analysis that sounds like

1536
01:38:27,100 --> 01:38:31,840
we're not quite there yet

1537
01:38:31,840 --> 01:38:39,190
okay

1538
01:38:39,190 --> 01:38:42,770
okay

1539
01:38:42,770 --> 01:38:44,770
through the mayor yes it is on thank you I

1540
01:38:44,770 --> 01:38:47,770
haven't used this one yet ... I was just going

1541
01:38:47,770 --> 01:38:49,650
to add a little bit ... you know we have

1542
01:38:49,650 --> 01:38:52,210
been in front of council a couple of times where

1543
01:38:52,210 --> 01:38:56,790
we have spoken about modernizing our our parking ... standards

1544
01:38:56,790 --> 01:39:00,110
... most recently ... we have ... applied for grant

1545
01:39:00,430 --> 01:39:03,790
... through UBCM to ... look at that we will

1546
01:39:03,790 --> 01:39:06,810
be hearing whether we have gotten the grant ... by

1547
01:39:06,810 --> 01:39:10,230
the end of August ... even if we don't get

1548
01:39:10,230 --> 01:39:12,740
the ground it is an item that is is on

1549
01:39:12,740 --> 01:39:15,890
our work program ... we're supposed to be reporting back

1550
01:39:15,890 --> 01:39:19,070
to council there was a five year report back I

1551
01:39:19,070 --> 01:39:21,480
think three and a half years ago so it is

1552
01:39:21,480 --> 01:39:23,860
something that we're we're we're looking at and it's really

1553
01:39:23,860 --> 01:39:27,900
about right sizing the parking that ... we have making

1554
01:39:27,900 --> 01:39:30,280
sure that we're providing the right type of parking but

1555
01:39:30,280 --> 01:39:34,560
also considering you know transportation demand measures and how we

1556
01:39:34,560 --> 01:39:38,320
can start ... shifting the use of the different modes

1557
01:39:38,320 --> 01:39:43,670
of transportation and ... changing attitudes towards transportation ... to

1558
01:39:43,670 --> 01:39:47,570
make sure that were ... you know addressing climate challenges

1559
01:39:47,570 --> 01:39:51,310
and all those very many things also recognizing that parking

1560
01:39:51,310 --> 01:39:54,590
is very expensive to put into to ... homes so

1561
01:39:54,590 --> 01:39:56,690
there's a lot of work it's going to be coming

1562
01:39:56,690 --> 01:40:00,000
up soon ... hopefully it's something

1563
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,290
that we can start talking about this here and if

1564
01:40:02,290 --> 01:40:04,640
not this year it'll be early next year right thank

1565
01:40:04,640 --> 01:40:06,660
you for that yeah that's that's ... it is I

1566
01:40:06,660 --> 01:40:10,230
think as councillor Thornton Joe once commented sometime ago parking

1567
01:40:10,230 --> 01:40:13,760
seems to be the most consistently repeated question and concern

1568
01:40:13,760 --> 01:40:16,120
is raised with virtually every issue I'm I just had

1569
01:40:16,120 --> 01:40:20,130
one other question it's actually ... in attachment G. ...

1570
01:40:20,130 --> 01:40:23,360
and it's on the the last page third page ...

1571
01:40:23,420 --> 01:40:25,850
I couldn't find very many references and all of this

1572
01:40:25,850 --> 01:40:30,220
material to services in consideration ... around people who have

1573
01:40:30,250 --> 01:40:33,880
mobility impairments and other disabilities but in this document there

1574
01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:36,180
is a reference ... this is the one that looks

1575
01:40:36,180 --> 01:40:39,640
at future engagement there is a reference to two organizations

1576
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,780
that is city resource center and the accessibility advisory committee

1577
01:40:43,300 --> 01:40:47,280
of both of which ... speak to the active transportation

1578
01:40:47,310 --> 01:40:50,790
issues but my question is more along the lines of

1579
01:40:50,790 --> 01:40:54,920
... what type of engagement to imagine or maybe have

1580
01:40:54,920 --> 01:40:56,730
you already done but mostly I think it's future looking

1581
01:40:57,310 --> 01:41:02,300
on issues beyond just transportation for people with disabilities and

1582
01:41:02,300 --> 01:41:08,550
does that consider accessibility for buildings structures open spaces green

1583
01:41:08,550 --> 01:41:10,570
green ways that sort of thing because I can only

1584
01:41:10,570 --> 01:41:13,540
find it the reference to transportation from just wondering if

1585
01:41:13,540 --> 01:41:25,070
there's a consideration because beyond the

1586
01:41:25,380 --> 01:41:28,810
thank you and through the acting mayor of

1587
01:41:28,810 --> 01:41:32,620
with local area planning we we recognize and we have

1588
01:41:32,620 --> 01:41:37,890
heard ... needs and desires and concerns around our housing

1589
01:41:37,890 --> 01:41:41,030
stock ... and particularly as we look to the future

1590
01:41:41,060 --> 01:41:44,610
and needs for accessibility and that's something that is one

1591
01:41:44,610 --> 01:41:49,280
of the key actions in the housing strategy and so

1592
01:41:49,380 --> 01:41:52,320
I think with with all local area plans you look

1593
01:41:52,320 --> 01:41:59,390
to the evolution of ... policies or regulations around accessibility

1594
01:41:59,390 --> 01:42:03,730
of housing of how we design public spaces of of

1595
01:42:03,730 --> 01:42:07,950
the parking question again ... rather than trying to develop

1596
01:42:07,950 --> 01:42:11,400
those at the neighborhood level but it's certainly something we

1597
01:42:11,400 --> 01:42:15,200
hear about and we we understand where by that is

1598
01:42:15,320 --> 01:42:18,110
differences on your radar for sure hello my questions I

1599
01:42:18,110 --> 01:42:21,500
just to tell someone specifically I really appreciate the fact

1600
01:42:21,500 --> 01:42:26,650
that you have a knowledge the all encompassing consideration of

1601
01:42:26,650 --> 01:42:31,000
where we can make room for indigenous recognition throughout the

1602
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:34,620
city ... I think that it is really speaks well

1603
01:42:34,620 --> 01:42:39,620
of staff's increasing of our priorities around that relationship building

1604
01:42:39,620 --> 01:42:41,170
with the nations and so thank you for that in

1605
01:42:41,170 --> 01:42:46,990
particular thanks for your work

1606
01:42:46,990 --> 01:42:51,050
the concern through

1607
01:42:51,050 --> 01:42:53,830
thank you very much ... like my colleague thank you

1608
01:42:53,830 --> 01:42:57,050
very much ... ...

1609
01:42:57,050 --> 01:43:00,400
really it could report and thank you work on this

1610
01:43:00,570 --> 01:43:03,270
to I spent a lot time going over it and

1611
01:43:03,270 --> 01:43:06,930
I'm fascinated by some of my comments ... the comments

1612
01:43:06,930 --> 01:43:11,350
sent by my colleague said very interesting ... I don't

1613
01:43:11,350 --> 01:43:14,940
talk to you but about the hell scientific corporate Dillinger

1614
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:19,660
if we if we may and ... it appeared to

1615
01:43:19,660 --> 01:43:23,890
me from reading report that there have been significant changes

1616
01:43:23,890 --> 01:43:27,250
in that area ... since some of the consultation was

1617
01:43:27,250 --> 01:43:30,310
done and that would be with the seniors housing placed

1618
01:43:30,860 --> 01:43:37,920
between Quadra and ... ... Blanchard is really significant and

1619
01:43:37,920 --> 01:43:42,160
I'm wondering how one what we we may consider on

1620
01:43:42,160 --> 01:43:46,780
consultation that area and M. two how this will impact

1621
01:43:47,370 --> 01:43:52,190
on the neighborhood planning quarter delayed because ... I think

1622
01:43:52,190 --> 01:43:56,370
it said clearly we we want that ... the scene

1623
01:43:56,370 --> 01:43:58,720
is living in that area to to be integrated in

1624
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:01,710
the community make sure it is accessible I wonder if

1625
01:44:01,710 --> 01:44:07,450
you could talk a little bit about that please

1626
01:44:07,450 --> 01:44:11,540
thank you councillor and through acting mayor

1627
01:44:11,540 --> 01:44:15,080
yes we we have heard a lot about the ...

1628
01:44:15,080 --> 01:44:19,710
the summit housing ... throughout the discussions on Quadra village

1629
01:44:19,710 --> 01:44:23,890
and it's certainly something that's important to an important consideration

1630
01:44:23,890 --> 01:44:29,150
for the neighborhood stakeholders of both in regards to how

1631
01:44:29,470 --> 01:44:33,730
the remaining ... sites around that site are viewed as

1632
01:44:33,730 --> 01:44:36,580
far as nine fifty kings as far as any potential

1633
01:44:36,580 --> 01:44:41,190
for ... changes at evergreen terrace R. Blanchard court but

1634
01:44:41,190 --> 01:44:45,310
also how that summit site can integrate into the broader

1635
01:44:45,310 --> 01:44:48,300
community and some of those ideas that have emerged I

1636
01:44:48,300 --> 01:44:51,350
think concern ... the use of the laneway has more

1637
01:44:51,350 --> 01:44:55,720
of a pedestrian friendly spaces ... as well as ...

1638
01:44:55,840 --> 01:44:59,120
you know green waste throughout ... what what could become

1639
01:44:59,120 --> 01:45:01,660
in some ways a super block if there's not permeability

1640
01:45:01,660 --> 01:45:03,850
because we have this three large sites of nine fifty

1641
01:45:03,850 --> 01:45:07,210
kings and the summit and BC housing so there has

1642
01:45:07,210 --> 01:45:10,850
been ... some discussion of that and we we can

1643
01:45:10,850 --> 01:45:15,080
certainly incorporate more specific discussion about how the summit itself

1644
01:45:15,550 --> 01:45:18,330
is integrated into the neighborhood because it's fair to say

1645
01:45:18,330 --> 01:45:21,100
we've probably heard more about how to sum it has

1646
01:45:21,100 --> 01:45:23,960
impacted or is perceived to be impacting the neighborhood and

1647
01:45:23,960 --> 01:45:26,910
a little bit about how the summit itself can integrate

1648
01:45:26,940 --> 01:45:29,310
I mean I know what we talk about buildings here

1649
01:45:29,310 --> 01:45:32,170
in and traditionally we do that but I think the

1650
01:45:32,170 --> 01:45:35,770
people that live inside these buildings ... the key that

1651
01:45:35,770 --> 01:45:38,830
we be looking and I'm I'm looking at accessibility moments

1652
01:45:38,830 --> 01:45:40,960
in those days and I was thinking about it the

1653
01:45:41,050 --> 01:45:45,690
temp it would be I think provide them

1654
01:45:45,690 --> 01:45:50,580
... a huge ... leadership role if we could start

1655
01:45:50,580 --> 01:45:54,350
looking at them accessibility so that we can look at

1656
01:45:54,350 --> 01:45:58,610
benches resting places within the area to ensure ... but

1657
01:45:58,610 --> 01:46:03,690
not just resting places some ... for able bodied individuals

1658
01:46:03,690 --> 01:46:07,140
I I saw a great term pick I think was

1659
01:46:07,140 --> 01:46:11,310
on councillor Thornton-Joe's site that that part ... a bench

1660
01:46:11,310 --> 01:46:15,090
that has them Hey bill T. for wheelchair to to

1661
01:46:15,090 --> 01:46:17,220
fit into it I mean these are the kinds of

1662
01:46:17,220 --> 01:46:22,950
things and and curbs and ... ... crosswalks and ...

1663
01:46:22,980 --> 01:46:26,840
if we go into the into the corner village definitely

1664
01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:28,820
the work that was done

1665
01:46:28,820 --> 01:46:31,450
many years ago when the ... when the when it

1666
01:46:31,450 --> 01:46:34,050
was re developed I think was about a million dollars

1667
01:46:34,050 --> 01:46:36,880
and lighting and and develop in the quarter village there

1668
01:46:37,290 --> 01:46:42,980
... south of hillside ... anyone who spends any time

1669
01:46:42,980 --> 01:46:46,800
in the quarter village will know that there is ...

1670
01:46:46,800 --> 01:46:53,760
heavy pedestrian traffic between king and ...

1671
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:57,840
sorry pal side again so come and even though there

1672
01:46:57,840 --> 01:47:01,450
is no crosswalk in the middle of that and that

1673
01:47:01,450 --> 01:47:05,450
block people using it as a crosswalk and ... I

1674
01:47:05,450 --> 01:47:08,890
wonder if we've we've we've looked at that ... ...

1675
01:47:08,920 --> 01:47:11,470
and ... because I think at times it does become

1676
01:47:11,470 --> 01:47:14,970
a little bit them in same with the frustration of

1677
01:47:14,970 --> 01:47:18,820
people going through them alleged comment on that I'll keep

1678
01:47:18,820 --> 01:47:21,970
going

1679
01:47:21,970 --> 01:47:26,170
thank you councillor yes it's certainly something ... eight I

1680
01:47:26,640 --> 01:47:28,580
may be guilty of being one of those people at

1681
01:47:28,580 --> 01:47:30,740
one time in my life first

1682
01:47:30,740 --> 01:47:34,080
there's certainly a desire line across hill side there and

1683
01:47:34,080 --> 01:47:39,140
... we've recognize that through the proposed greenway ... that

1684
01:47:39,140 --> 01:47:41,980
said at the at the planet proposal is that the

1685
01:47:41,980 --> 01:47:44,550
high level and so we haven't looked at you know

1686
01:47:45,150 --> 01:47:48,980
exactly where across what might land or how where that

1687
01:47:48,980 --> 01:47:52,220
fits in prioritize ation but have certainly looked at ...

1688
01:47:52,510 --> 01:47:55,630
how people get across from the area of the summit

1689
01:47:55,630 --> 01:47:58,900
in Blanchard courts to the north towards that green space

1690
01:47:58,900 --> 01:48:01,930
to the south towards the community center ... and if

1691
01:48:01,930 --> 01:48:04,530
... a large agreement can be established there is a

1692
01:48:04,530 --> 01:48:07,760
north south desire line for people

1693
01:48:07,760 --> 01:48:10,290
I'm definitely ... the other thing I think I would

1694
01:48:10,290 --> 01:48:14,080
like to to point out that since we have ...

1695
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:17,950
... a significant number of people living in the in

1696
01:48:17,950 --> 01:48:22,100
the summit it also gives the opportunity to look at

1697
01:48:22,210 --> 01:48:27,880
... creating accessible housing in that area as well since

1698
01:48:27,910 --> 01:48:29,810
if we were to do the work to provide leadership

1699
01:48:30,280 --> 01:48:32,920
I think you know like a leadership that ledge that

1700
01:48:33,320 --> 01:48:37,870
is accessible ... to maybe go over and above us

1701
01:48:37,870 --> 01:48:39,830
and we'd be talking about a little bit later today

1702
01:48:39,830 --> 01:48:43,070
and one of the one of the applications coming before

1703
01:48:43,070 --> 01:48:46,870
so that we can we can ... try to do

1704
01:48:46,870 --> 01:48:52,750
some catch up on the the missing accessible ... rental

1705
01:48:52,750 --> 01:48:55,290
spaces within the city of Victoria that I know this

1706
01:48:55,290 --> 01:48:58,170
is been an issue so if we could

1707
01:48:58,170 --> 01:49:01,080
consider that and go over about the PC billing correct

1708
01:49:01,080 --> 01:49:03,990
and that is important and as you know that that

1709
01:49:03,990 --> 01:49:09,290
includes widening door frames so that elevated them wheelchair accessible

1710
01:49:09,290 --> 01:49:13,770
to you think again ... I also like to follow

1711
01:49:13,770 --> 01:49:18,680
up on counselor Loveday sent comments ... and ... the

1712
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:24,900
Roxy theater and then the the comment about a cultural

1713
01:49:24,900 --> 01:49:29,910
center I mean it can route ... it can route

1714
01:49:29,940 --> 01:49:32,830
... at the legend and and really build around at

1715
01:49:32,830 --> 01:49:37,450
this age and I ... councillor Isaac will be familiar

1716
01:49:37,450 --> 01:49:41,080
with this the gas station theatre in Winnipeg ... up

1717
01:49:41,080 --> 01:49:44,390
there and in the villages ... with the took a

1718
01:49:44,390 --> 01:49:47,530
gas station and changed into a theater and it really

1719
01:49:47,530 --> 01:49:51,220
did make it a significant cultural center and really added

1720
01:49:51,220 --> 01:49:55,260
to the E. D. the idea of the village and

1721
01:49:55,660 --> 01:49:58,180
I would hope that we would then consider some of

1722
01:49:58,180 --> 01:50:01,430
the work that's being done now ... in some of

1723
01:50:01,430 --> 01:50:05,480
the new features that are ... arts spaces is going

1724
01:50:05,480 --> 01:50:09,360
in the day they've they've done it well actually and

1725
01:50:09,360 --> 01:50:12,410
... in London England but we never any kind of

1726
01:50:12,410 --> 01:50:17,210
code onto it that is they have place ... the

1727
01:50:17,210 --> 01:50:22,050
first of all they go down ... deeper into in

1728
01:50:22,080 --> 01:50:25,770
in in in in those situations I've done that and

1729
01:50:25,770 --> 01:50:30,250
that it definitely able to Sondheim in New York ...

1730
01:50:30,280 --> 01:50:33,630
because really ... you don't need lots of light into

1731
01:50:33,630 --> 01:50:36,040
in that the affect you wanna try to avoid that

1732
01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:39,220
and and also for sound that but they they tend

1733
01:50:39,220 --> 01:50:44,580
to build extensive either office space or ... housing puppets

1734
01:50:44,610 --> 01:50:48,180
that is something that could cook could be done and

1735
01:50:48,180 --> 01:50:52,080
again obviously making accessible and ... I would I would

1736
01:50:52,080 --> 01:50:55,000
hope that we would look at that as a ...

1737
01:50:55,130 --> 01:50:58,310
as a generator of ...

1738
01:50:58,310 --> 01:51:04,800
well revenue generators ... traffic foot traffic it to go

1739
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:06,510
in that area in that and that we would also

1740
01:51:06,510 --> 01:51:10,170
ensure that if we're gonna develop how ... how cycling

1741
01:51:10,170 --> 01:51:13,170
master plan in that area that we we we didn't

1742
01:51:13,170 --> 01:51:17,690
we would consider accommodating making sure we have significant ...

1743
01:51:17,760 --> 01:51:20,800
bicycle parking and and so on I think that's very

1744
01:51:21,170 --> 01:51:25,740
very important public parking that that safe and secure

1745
01:51:25,740 --> 01:51:30,350


1746
01:51:30,350 --> 01:51:34,830
and ... so now having a hard time reading my

1747
01:51:34,830 --> 01:51:40,090
own writing ...

1748
01:51:40,090 --> 01:51:43,410
yeah from what

1749
01:51:43,410 --> 01:51:46,690
if if you if you look at the hillside corridor

1750
01:51:47,030 --> 01:51:50,050
little bit more and I know that we have the

1751
01:51:50,050 --> 01:51:52,500
the the the quarter village and then we go up

1752
01:51:52,500 --> 01:51:55,090
we have some retail that we've been looking at on

1753
01:51:55,090 --> 01:51:59,660
the north side there do you see that actually maintaining

1754
01:51:59,660 --> 01:52:02,720
their in in you know ten twenty years or are

1755
01:52:02,720 --> 01:52:06,890
we can look to to redevelop that into more ...

1756
01:52:06,970 --> 01:52:11,770
suitable ... housing and ... you know that that was

1757
01:52:11,770 --> 01:52:15,620
a key thing there and then also as we get

1758
01:52:15,650 --> 01:52:20,180
into I know near north park as well there the

1759
01:52:20,210 --> 01:52:24,370
the church there on ...

1760
01:52:24,370 --> 01:52:27,320
snow Cloverdale that point was to come

1761
01:52:27,320 --> 01:52:30,070
sorry no call

1762
01:52:30,070 --> 01:52:32,960
right up to the police station

1763
01:52:32,960 --> 01:52:34,390
mmhm

1764
01:52:34,390 --> 01:52:38,050
yes count only started but that the just we've got

1765
01:52:38,180 --> 01:52:41,300
awful lot of home parking lots around that area we

1766
01:52:41,680 --> 01:52:46,070
is there anything any vision on ... on developing that

1767
01:52:46,100 --> 01:52:49,460
in it's really funny because one funny it's sad because

1768
01:52:49,460 --> 01:52:51,770
I I look at the I spent quite a lot

1769
01:52:51,770 --> 01:52:54,420
of time in that area and I look at the

1770
01:52:54,450 --> 01:52:59,060
... the amount of ... need for housing and I

1771
01:52:59,060 --> 01:53:01,230
and I look at the amount of

1772
01:53:01,230 --> 01:53:05,140
parking space that that's there that that really is only

1773
01:53:05,140 --> 01:53:10,150
utilized during special events or ... on Sundays what what

1774
01:53:10,570 --> 01:53:13,060
do we have planned we have any idea what we

1775
01:53:13,060 --> 01:53:17,170
want to encourage in that area

1776
01:53:17,170 --> 01:53:29,330
especially when we look into mixed use housing

1777
01:53:37,290 --> 01:53:40,040
sorry my colleague and I were just trying to think

1778
01:53:40,040 --> 01:53:42,420
of which parking lots where he were thinking of what

1779
01:53:42,700 --> 01:53:47,020
is parking although like ... from set this the church

1780
01:53:47,020 --> 01:53:50,250
parking and the paperwork in this room to see on

1781
01:53:50,250 --> 01:53:53,800
the corner then you've got to come

1782
01:53:53,800 --> 01:53:58,350
... there was a development there but ... that further

1783
01:53:58,350 --> 01:54:02,410
out this all that parking ... Robbins parking them when

1784
01:54:02,410 --> 01:54:04,850
you go around the corner on Carter street there is

1785
01:54:05,030 --> 01:54:13,170
more parking

1786
01:54:13,170 --> 01:54:15,170
sort of throwback thank you

1787
01:54:15,170 --> 01:54:18,300
no no thank you we were just conferring ... but

1788
01:54:18,300 --> 01:54:21,940
I I believe ... and and through the at the

1789
01:54:21,940 --> 01:54:24,990
acting mayor I believe ... those are but you know

1790
01:54:24,990 --> 01:54:27,760
as he pointed out there there there private parking lots

1791
01:54:27,760 --> 01:54:30,530
aside I know the city has one or well these

1792
01:54:30,530 --> 01:54:33,000
public parking at the arena as well as next to

1793
01:54:33,000 --> 01:54:37,170
the royal athletic park but with this private ...

1794
01:54:37,170 --> 01:54:40,620
yes with with extensive private parking lots ... certainly the

1795
01:54:40,620 --> 01:54:45,490
land use vision does allow for the addition of housing

1796
01:54:45,620 --> 01:54:48,040
in that area as part of the shoulder of our

1797
01:54:48,040 --> 01:54:52,590
downtown core area ... it did the current design guidelines

1798
01:54:52,590 --> 01:54:55,310
which we do you know what would anticipate continuing to

1799
01:54:55,310 --> 01:54:59,630
speak to sensitivity towards the landmark buildings at the landmark

1800
01:54:59,630 --> 01:55:03,220
historic churches in that area as far as the the

1801
01:55:03,220 --> 01:55:06,640
massing and and and design of those buildings but it

1802
01:55:06,640 --> 01:55:10,190
is an area that's looked at for housing opportunity subject

1803
01:55:10,190 --> 01:55:11,410
to the

1804
01:55:11,410 --> 01:55:15,110
policies of the city and so it's certainly something ...

1805
01:55:15,110 --> 01:55:18,140
and might make housing colleagues ... it could probably speak

1806
01:55:18,140 --> 01:55:20,370
better to this but I do believe there's an action

1807
01:55:20,370 --> 01:55:24,700
within the housing strategy to continue dialogue with non profits

1808
01:55:24,730 --> 01:55:28,790
... and faith based landowners who often find themselves with

1809
01:55:28,990 --> 01:55:31,920
large sites and ... may want to do something as

1810
01:55:31,920 --> 01:55:35,900
far as the mission of supporting ... housing for people

1811
01:55:36,170 --> 01:55:39,480
so that's certainly a possibility that's ... entertained in these

1812
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:41,130
plans

1813
01:55:41,130 --> 01:55:43,930
great to come thank you those are my comments for

1814
01:55:43,930 --> 01:55:47,230
now I am as we are on the table again

1815
01:55:47,230 --> 01:55:49,530
on the same me pick up a couple more thank

1816
01:55:49,530 --> 01:55:52,250
you for answering my questions I appreciate it

1817
01:55:52,250 --> 01:55:55,660
okay before I leave to cross so I said I

1818
01:55:55,700 --> 01:56:01,330
would I have some questions so I haven't spoken yet

1819
01:56:01,330 --> 01:56:02,870


1820
01:56:02,870 --> 01:56:04,200
a

1821
01:56:04,200 --> 01:56:07,180
a lot of questions that I have has been already

1822
01:56:07,180 --> 01:56:10,680
asking but I want to go back in terms of

1823
01:56:10,680 --> 01:56:16,540
some of the concerns ... gentrification in the neighborhood so

1824
01:56:16,570 --> 01:56:19,090
what impact it will have

1825
01:56:19,090 --> 01:56:23,030
and I'm wondering because some of the neighborhoods such as

1826
01:56:23,030 --> 01:56:28,260
part their village on Spain Rutan those neighbourhoods there are

1827
01:56:28,260 --> 01:56:31,810
a lot of the snow culture on businesses and base

1828
01:56:32,390 --> 01:56:38,050
and has there been any consideration and or engagements with

1829
01:56:38,050 --> 01:56:41,210
them ... because what I've

1830
01:56:41,210 --> 01:56:46,020
seen in other cities when big department happen and neighborhoods

1831
01:56:46,050 --> 01:56:52,070
change there's always a displacement of ethnocultural businesses so has

1832
01:56:52,070 --> 01:56:56,350
the ... wondering has the stuff put into consideration to

1833
01:56:56,350 --> 01:57:01,550
those businesses and X. and what was the perhaps if

1834
01:57:01,550 --> 01:57:04,830
you could speak more on the details

1835
01:57:04,830 --> 01:57:09,580
reports ... and because it indicated it would be required

1836
01:57:09,580 --> 01:57:12,760
more business because of the growth and how do you

1837
01:57:12,760 --> 01:57:19,240
retain the existing businesses as well

1838
01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:23,430
I think you acting mayor Dubow we did have

1839
01:57:23,430 --> 01:57:26,730
... I believe one or at least one or possibly

1840
01:57:26,730 --> 01:57:30,440
two if my memory serves me consultations with the business

1841
01:57:30,440 --> 01:57:34,470
owners at a quarter village ... we hosted a it

1842
01:57:34,470 --> 01:57:37,110
was in the first round of engagement we hosted a

1843
01:57:37,110 --> 01:57:41,930
business and service providers breakfast ... and we did have

1844
01:57:41,970 --> 01:57:45,610
you know probably ten or twelve ... business owners come

1845
01:57:45,650 --> 01:57:48,370
... I believe there was ... you don't wasn't all

1846
01:57:48,370 --> 01:57:51,280
of the businesses it wasn't all of the ethno cultural

1847
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:55,350
businesses ... we had I believe camas books there and

1848
01:57:55,350 --> 01:57:58,390
... you know some of that to the different small

1849
01:57:58,390 --> 01:58:02,270
businesses ... and it's certainly something we've kept in mind

1850
01:58:02,300 --> 01:58:06,040
we can continue that out rates ... often with businesses

1851
01:58:06,040 --> 01:58:08,460
and find ... it may require going door to door

1852
01:58:08,460 --> 01:58:11,280
at times or at the very least giving people breakfast

1853
01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:16,190
before the business opens ... but we are ... looking

1854
01:58:16,190 --> 01:58:21,400
at ... policies that we hope can allow for the

1855
01:58:21,400 --> 01:58:28,370
continuation of small business ... spaces and not to encouraging

1856
01:58:28,460 --> 01:58:30,030
...

1857
01:58:30,030 --> 01:58:32,640
large excuse me

1858
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:36,810
large scale redevelopment within those parts of quarter village that

1859
01:58:36,810 --> 01:58:41,560
already have ... find great fabric of building ownership so

1860
01:58:41,560 --> 01:58:44,990
that those spaces can continue to be there as well

1861
01:58:44,990 --> 01:58:48,120
as ... how we can provide some of the public

1862
01:58:48,120 --> 01:58:51,410
realm that can support what they do

1863
01:58:51,410 --> 01:58:55,170
and thank you very much for that ... thanks for

1864
01:58:55,170 --> 01:59:00,140
all the walk on the parts and concise it

1865
01:59:00,140 --> 01:59:02,220
thanks

1866
01:59:02,220 --> 01:59:05,720
just an aside Doug councillor Rangers correct I do recall

1867
01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:08,770
the gestation theater I had my tempers the party they're

1868
01:59:08,800 --> 01:59:13,240
watching a rendition of the headless horseman and my birthday's

1869
01:59:13,240 --> 01:59:16,290
in mid January and my mom actually reminded me a

1870
01:59:16,290 --> 01:59:19,000
few years ago that it was so cold that the

1871
01:59:19,000 --> 01:59:22,420
that to prevent the engine blocks from freezing solid they

1872
01:59:22,420 --> 01:59:25,540
all had to leave their vehicles idling in front of

1873
01:59:25,540 --> 01:59:29,290
the theater so that was my tenth birthday sort of

1874
01:59:29,290 --> 01:59:32,720
in the nineteen eighties so I guess climate action consciousness

1875
01:59:32,720 --> 01:59:35,060
was to look at what's today but I think you

1876
01:59:35,060 --> 01:59:37,320
councillor Andrew for that

1877
01:59:37,320 --> 01:59:40,540
allowing me to reminisce

1878
01:59:40,540 --> 01:59:43,330
question to staff ... similar to some of the questions

1879
01:59:43,330 --> 01:59:49,180
that other colleagues have asked specific to ... housing affordability

1880
01:59:49,180 --> 01:59:52,800
and looking at some policies that I believe ms whose

1881
01:59:52,800 --> 01:59:57,230
... has drawn our attention to previously ... in Vancouver

1882
01:59:57,520 --> 02:00:02,150
I guess what options would council have to mandate affordability

1883
02:00:02,200 --> 02:00:06,310
essentially say that for any property owners to access additional

1884
02:00:06,310 --> 02:00:10,940
densities it would have to be either non market or

1885
02:00:11,360 --> 02:00:14,710
a housing that had some affordability baked in and then

1886
02:00:14,710 --> 02:00:18,720
in the absence of those provisions ... the the previous

1887
02:00:18,790 --> 02:00:21,580
much lower densities would be all that would be available

1888
02:00:22,140 --> 02:00:24,240
because that would seem to be an approach that I

1889
02:00:24,240 --> 02:00:28,080
think Vancouver has followed ... that could be a way

1890
02:00:28,080 --> 02:00:30,560
to ensure that if we do have densification on any

1891
02:00:30,560 --> 02:00:36,030
of these corridors ... that it it achieves the city's

1892
02:00:36,030 --> 02:00:42,690
affordability objectives rather than ... potentially could contributing to gentrification

1893
02:00:42,690 --> 02:00:55,210
which can undermine affordability and inclusivity

1894
02:00:55,220 --> 02:00:57,660
thank you councillor and head through the acting mayor ...

1895
02:00:57,690 --> 02:01:00,790
... I will ... start the question and if there's

1896
02:01:00,790 --> 02:01:03,980
any other additions around policy or legal framework cell I

1897
02:01:03,980 --> 02:01:07,070
look to ... ms Hudson

1898
02:01:07,070 --> 02:01:11,930
there's different ways we can approach ... the policy framework

1899
02:01:11,930 --> 02:01:15,770
here and and do the way we have ... proposed

1900
02:01:15,770 --> 02:01:20,000
in these key directions is to continue to utilize ...

1901
02:01:20,000 --> 02:01:24,810
the city's approach to density quote unquote density bonus which

1902
02:01:24,810 --> 02:01:26,480
is to seek

1903
02:01:26,480 --> 02:01:30,400
either inclusion area housing or community amenity consistent with that

1904
02:01:30,400 --> 02:01:34,390
city wide policy ... there are a few other ...

1905
02:01:34,530 --> 02:01:38,780
draft policies put into these documents of for example ...

1906
02:01:38,810 --> 02:01:41,980
one of the proposed policies as an intern policy speaks

1907
02:01:41,980 --> 02:01:47,060
to where these plans are proposing additional densities ... considered

1908
02:01:47,190 --> 02:01:50,610
consideration of additional densities ... and not to really an

1909
02:01:50,610 --> 02:01:52,320
act that

1910
02:01:52,320 --> 02:01:55,040
until we have a chance to update that rental retention

1911
02:01:55,040 --> 02:01:58,730
and replacement policy in the OCP ... as far as

1912
02:01:58,730 --> 02:02:02,320
mandating ... we can certainly policies that speak to what

1913
02:02:02,320 --> 02:02:06,550
sorts of special needs or ... what sets of public

1914
02:02:06,550 --> 02:02:10,650
benefits are are desired with redevelopment ... but as far

1915
02:02:10,650 --> 02:02:14,440
as mandating it that ... you know perhaps through a

1916
02:02:14,440 --> 02:02:18,430
pres owning format ... would be one way of ...

1917
02:02:18,950 --> 02:02:21,960
you know having two different ... densities that are available

1918
02:02:21,960 --> 02:02:25,580
to an applicant ... but there are certain ... public

1919
02:02:25,580 --> 02:02:28,730
benefits that need to be provided for that and I

1920
02:02:28,730 --> 02:02:32,610
don't know if ms Hudson has additional legal considerations staff

1921
02:02:32,660 --> 02:02:36,120
to add to that

1922
02:02:36,120 --> 02:02:39,720
perhaps next week when council moves towards motions ... I

1923
02:02:39,720 --> 02:02:42,480
I think I would be contemplating some sort of a

1924
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:47,520
... an amendment or some direction to try to have

1925
02:02:47,520 --> 02:02:51,400
staff Britain incorporate those options into the draft plans of

1926
02:02:51,860 --> 02:02:55,870
yep please owning a differential density based on the ...

1927
02:02:55,870 --> 02:02:59,460
the type of tenure particularly the provision of affordability so

1928
02:03:00,020 --> 02:03:02,660
as staff have additional information today or perhaps they could

1929
02:03:02,660 --> 02:03:05,060
turn their mind to what that could look like with

1930
02:03:05,060 --> 02:03:07,930
council considers it next week

1931
02:03:07,930 --> 02:03:10,180
... through the acting mayor maybe I would just add

1932
02:03:10,180 --> 02:03:12,740
that as part of the next phase of local are

1933
02:03:12,740 --> 02:03:15,010
you planning we are going to turn our minds to

1934
02:03:15,350 --> 02:03:19,420
... zoning updates that would help implement these policies and

1935
02:03:19,420 --> 02:03:22,660
so we will be very much thinking about strategically what

1936
02:03:22,660 --> 02:03:26,720
areas of the neighborhood would make sense to ... perhaps

1937
02:03:26,920 --> 02:03:30,360
... update the zoning now to

1938
02:03:30,360 --> 02:03:35,140
... incentivize things like ... purpose built rental but which

1939
02:03:35,140 --> 02:03:37,550
parts of these villages do we want to maybe ...

1940
02:03:37,550 --> 02:03:41,640
still directed through rezoning process so that we can negotiate

1941
02:03:41,640 --> 02:03:45,590
for those other things like affordable affordable housing inclusionary housing

1942
02:03:45,590 --> 02:03:47,690
so so those are definitely the things that we're gonna

1943
02:03:47,690 --> 02:03:52,550
be thinking about as part of this next phase

1944
02:03:52,550 --> 02:04:00,690
okay ... Kingsley and secondly would require and to accept

1945
02:04:00,690 --> 02:04:03,380
the report because of the motions on other things we'd

1946
02:04:03,380 --> 02:04:05,900
be interested in next week so how do we move

1947
02:04:05,900 --> 02:04:08,290
forward

1948
02:04:08,290 --> 02:04:12,780
... actioner board that's just that's ... you're calling council's

1949
02:04:12,780 --> 02:04:16,870
if council wishes to adopting resolutions today

1950
02:04:16,870 --> 02:04:20,940
and it was a decided to adopt and next week

1951
02:04:20,980 --> 02:04:25,040
and my understanding so to end this part of the

1952
02:04:25,040 --> 02:04:30,320
agenda do we accept the report on point of order

1953
02:04:30,320 --> 02:04:32,940
I think I think with our staff for saying it's

1954
02:04:32,940 --> 02:04:35,070
council's decision they don't want to sway would take a

1955
02:04:35,070 --> 02:04:39,910
positive motion of council probably just to postpone consideration of

1956
02:04:39,910 --> 02:04:42,510
or will be delighted to postpone this item or to

1957
02:04:42,510 --> 02:04:45,420
refer it to next week

1958
02:04:45,420 --> 02:04:48,250
could we just accept item one

1959
02:04:48,250 --> 02:04:51,090
which is 6

1960
02:04:51,090 --> 02:04:54,630
because that is an option of the discussion during the

1961
02:04:54,630 --> 02:04:57,040
gender like so I said a point of order now

1962
02:04:57,040 --> 02:04:59,900
it throws the speakers list in limbo but ... just

1963
02:04:59,900 --> 02:05:02,710
to continue I could be added to the speakers list

1964
02:05:02,710 --> 02:05:07,780
whenever is appropriate councillor Dubow allowed to so going back

1965
02:05:07,780 --> 02:05:10,420
to to the question

1966
02:05:10,420 --> 02:05:13,600
would it be up to the councils either to move

1967
02:05:13,600 --> 02:05:20,310
the motion to refer the report to next week or

1968
02:05:20,340 --> 02:05:24,900
what would be the best procedurally two tied up this

1969
02:05:24,900 --> 02:05:28,220
so that the motion as could be and debated next

1970
02:05:28,220 --> 02:05:30,550
week

1971
02:05:30,550 --> 02:05:33,660
that's L. three routing merit I would suggest there's a

1972
02:05:33,660 --> 02:05:36,450
couple different ways councillor comes out so it really depends

1973
02:05:36,450 --> 02:05:40,790
on council's preference receiving the reports one option and that

1974
02:05:40,790 --> 02:05:43,460
would certainly not preclude council from discussing it again if

1975
02:05:43,460 --> 02:05:46,060
it wishes are passing any additional motions if it wishes

1976
02:05:46,280 --> 02:05:49,420
another option could be to a motion to refer as

1977
02:05:49,420 --> 02:05:51,260
you suggested

1978
02:05:51,260 --> 02:05:55,080
thank you I would it's up in the floor before

1979
02:05:55,080 --> 02:05:58,560
we move Animotion concise it

1980
02:05:58,560 --> 02:06:00,650
I guess I'd like to propose that this matter be

1981
02:06:00,650 --> 02:06:04,580
referred to next week's committee of the whole meeting second

1982
02:06:05,010 --> 02:06:08,480
and to motivate ... I I fully anticipate that I

1983
02:06:08,480 --> 02:06:10,830
will be in a position to receive but just because

1984
02:06:10,830 --> 02:06:13,490
there are a couple of key neighbourhood reps who served

1985
02:06:13,490 --> 02:06:16,040
on the working group and ... the haven't been able

1986
02:06:16,040 --> 02:06:18,370
to get back to me because of the tight timeline

1987
02:06:18,630 --> 02:06:21,140
I would have more comfort and just a complete referral

1988
02:06:21,380 --> 02:06:24,850
and then considering receipt as well as the other recommendations

1989
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:26,930
at next week's meeting

1990
02:06:26,930 --> 02:06:31,680
okay I think we ready to vote on that

1991
02:06:31,680 --> 02:06:35,130
in favor

1992
02:06:35,130 --> 02:06:37,180
a post

1993
02:06:37,180 --> 02:06:40,080
okay unanimous in the past so we will be right

1994
02:06:40,540 --> 02:06:51,900
I will have process for five minutes

1995
02:06:52,210 --> 02:06:53,870
I think we have

1996
02:06:53,870 --> 02:06:58,670
so we we had back to

1997
02:06:58,670 --> 02:07:03,000
the next P. 2 D. at the presentation

1998
02:07:03,000 --> 02:07:09,360
4 I've at plus to the stuff

1999
02:07:09,360 --> 02:07:12,990
thank you acting mad my name is Charlotte Wain ...

2000
02:07:13,170 --> 02:07:16,280
I'm a senior planner of design in the development services

2001
02:07:16,280 --> 02:07:18,180
division

2002
02:07:18,180 --> 02:07:20,810
this proposal is to rezone the one ha city blocks

2003
02:07:20,810 --> 02:07:23,520
to a site specific zoning in order to construct a

2004
02:07:23,520 --> 02:07:28,170
multi phased mixed use development including commercial daycare and office

2005
02:07:28,170 --> 02:07:32,540
use with purpose built residential went above the proposed densities

2006
02:07:32,540 --> 02:07:35,450
six point one floor space ratio for the nine hundred

2007
02:07:35,450 --> 02:07:37,830
block of the street six point two to one floor

2008
02:07:37,830 --> 02:07:40,960
space ratio for ten forty five days street

2009
02:07:40,960 --> 02:07:43,910
I do have quite a lengthy presentation so I may

2010
02:07:43,910 --> 02:07:46,630
poles on a few slides just to help you digest

2011
02:07:46,630 --> 02:07:49,600
what information is on the screen so just be aware

2012
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:54,550
that hi ... I will be doing this deliberately

2013
02:07:54,550 --> 02:07:56,870
so the subject property is located centrally in a hurry

2014
02:07:56,870 --> 02:08:02,980
screen neighbourhood outlined in green on this slide

2015
02:08:02,980 --> 02:08:06,610
the application fax number properties ninety three and nine eleven

2016
02:08:06,610 --> 02:08:09,460
young street nine ten view street and twelve and five

2017
02:08:09,460 --> 02:08:12,010
and twelve or nine quarter street and this is referred

2018
02:08:12,010 --> 02:08:13,770
to as the nine hundred block of H. street from

2019
02:08:13,770 --> 02:08:16,830
here on in under the other after the other side

2020
02:08:16,830 --> 02:08:18,710
to ten forty five yet street shown on the right

2021
02:08:18,710 --> 02:08:21,910
of the slide

2022
02:08:21,910 --> 02:08:24,130
this slide shows some of the surrounding buildings and how

2023
02:08:24,130 --> 02:08:28,860
was green and adjacent downtown neighborhoods and some visualisations ...

2024
02:08:28,960 --> 02:08:33,680
that I'm sure you're familiar with

2025
02:08:33,680 --> 02:08:36,070
on the nine hundred block the property contains two major

2026
02:08:36,070 --> 02:08:39,520
tenants including London drugs amok on Yates as well as

2027
02:08:39,520 --> 02:08:43,480
a number of smaller retailers residential building with fifteen rental

2028
02:08:43,480 --> 02:08:46,440
apartments is shown in photograph three

2029
02:08:46,440 --> 02:08:51,680
which is the bottom left hand for today

2030
02:08:51,680 --> 02:08:54,120
on ten forty five A. street this is currently occupied

2031
02:08:54,120 --> 02:08:56,630
by a car dealership which is not as hard storage

2032
02:08:57,070 --> 02:09:03,590
under a satiated surface parking

2033
02:09:03,590 --> 02:09:07,230
the official community plan or OCP identifies the property in

2034
02:09:07,230 --> 02:09:11,330
the core residential designation which supports diverse housing types including

2035
02:09:11,330 --> 02:09:14,660
live mid and high rise multi unit residential and mixed

2036
02:09:14,660 --> 02:09:18,120
use buildings up to approximately twenty stories

2037
02:09:18,120 --> 02:09:20,970
one of the strategic directions is to accommodate fifty percent

2038
02:09:20,970 --> 02:09:23,860
of Victoria's population growth within the urban core by twenty

2039
02:09:23,860 --> 02:09:26,770
forty one

2040
02:09:26,770 --> 02:09:30,170
the downtown core area plan or D. cap supports multi

2041
02:09:30,170 --> 02:09:33,070
residential development at the maximum density of five point five

2042
02:09:33,070 --> 02:09:35,700
to one floor space ratio and a maximum height of

2043
02:09:35,700 --> 02:09:38,460
forty five meters to ten forty five a street on

2044
02:09:38,460 --> 02:09:40,400
up to fifty meters of the nine hundred block of

2045
02:09:40,400 --> 02:09:44,090
H. street the application does exceed these height and density

2046
02:09:44,430 --> 02:09:46,980
however the proposal does exceed other aspects of the cap

2047
02:09:47,030 --> 02:09:50,070
through the provision of shorter more human scale podiums with

2048
02:09:50,070 --> 02:09:53,670
slender towers set back up of generous building separation distances

2049
02:09:53,670 --> 02:09:57,450
between the towers

2050
02:09:57,450 --> 02:10:00,400
the proposal was initiated prior to the pandemic so public

2051
02:10:00,400 --> 02:10:03,740
meeting was held in December twenty nineteen through the design

2052
02:10:03,740 --> 02:10:07,340
revision process the heightened density increased and so second coat

2053
02:10:07,340 --> 02:10:10,230
meeting was triggered and this went through the online process

2054
02:10:10,970 --> 02:10:13,340
in addition to these meetings the applicant how to more

2055
02:10:13,340 --> 02:10:16,560
consultation events and details are touching a package for council's

2056
02:10:16,560 --> 02:10:20,000
consideration

2057
02:10:20,000 --> 02:10:22,860
the following slides and explain the conceptual design design submitted

2058
02:10:22,890 --> 02:10:28,040
in association in association with the rezoning application

2059
02:10:28,040 --> 02:10:31,280
the applicant has included a rezoning booklet which is been

2060
02:10:31,280 --> 02:10:35,090
used to assess the general messing density streetscape views and

2061
02:10:35,090 --> 02:10:39,050
context of the proposal this seventies on design analysis helps

2062
02:10:39,050 --> 02:10:42,100
to demonstrate the relative merits associated with the proposed messing

2063
02:10:42,400 --> 02:10:48,390
as part of a comprehensively designed site

2064
02:10:48,390 --> 02:10:52,760
these benefits include improved building separation distances greatest street setback

2065
02:10:52,760 --> 02:10:56,700
distances humans go boating podium and the more consistent and

2066
02:10:56,700 --> 02:11:00,540
thoughtful distribution of density as demonstrated in this Mustang typology

2067
02:11:00,540 --> 02:11:03,510
study

2068
02:11:03,510 --> 02:11:05,580
this slide shows the urban design strategies that have been

2069
02:11:05,580 --> 02:11:08,500
used to inform the proposed messing and site layout and

2070
02:11:08,500 --> 02:11:14,260
further details including the reason booklet

2071
02:11:14,260 --> 02:11:16,910
this is an important slide to Shea as it demonstrates

2072
02:11:16,910 --> 02:11:19,130
how the proposed house have been thoughtfully place to be

2073
02:11:19,130 --> 02:11:22,600
offset from existing and proposed buildings as well as providing

2074
02:11:22,600 --> 02:11:26,420
generous spacing between the towers within the development the proposal

2075
02:11:26,420 --> 02:11:30,100
exceeds current and emerging D. cap standards with the distances

2076
02:11:30,100 --> 02:11:33,030
between towers ranging from twenty three meters to seventy six

2077
02:11:33,030 --> 02:11:36,450
meters

2078
02:11:36,450 --> 02:11:38,840
a design manual is included as part of the submission

2079
02:11:39,030 --> 02:11:41,740
which includes a series of site specific design guidelines to

2080
02:11:41,740 --> 02:11:44,890
provide assurances that the important design criteria listed on this

2081
02:11:44,890 --> 02:11:49,950
slide we'll be matching concurrent of future development applications

2082
02:11:49,950 --> 02:11:52,520
an official community plan amendment is required to reference these

2083
02:11:52,520 --> 02:11:56,600
guidelines and develop planetary which covers a site as well

2084
02:11:56,600 --> 02:12:00,740
as to allow the proposed increase in height heightened density

2085
02:12:00,740 --> 02:12:04,350
this design manual is comprehensive and well developed although if

2086
02:12:04,350 --> 02:12:07,970
you don't a specs do require further clarification and refinement

2087
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:11,170
and this is listed in the staff recommendation the version

2088
02:12:11,170 --> 02:12:13,880
presented today is the result of a Catholic considered to

2089
02:12:13,880 --> 02:12:17,900
be processed by staff

2090
02:12:17,900 --> 02:12:20,330
the proposal is comprised of two size they're intended to

2091
02:12:20,330 --> 02:12:23,420
be delivered in two or three phases ten forty five

2092
02:12:23,420 --> 02:12:26,030
eighth street is proposed as a first phase we seek

2093
02:12:26,030 --> 02:12:28,390
to increase the density to six point two twelve floor

2094
02:12:28,390 --> 02:12:31,320
space ratio and increase the committee tied to twenty one

2095
02:12:31,320 --> 02:12:34,350
stories further details of this we discussed later in the

2096
02:12:34,350 --> 02:12:36,200
presentation

2097
02:12:36,200 --> 02:12:38,440
for the nine hundred block of a street the proposed

2098
02:12:38,440 --> 02:12:41,510
increase density to six point one floor space ratio and

2099
02:12:41,510 --> 02:12:44,630
increase the committee height to thirty two stories

2100
02:12:44,630 --> 02:12:46,790
central to the nine hundred block would be high quality

2101
02:12:46,790 --> 02:12:51,900
public plaza linking ace in the streets

2102
02:12:51,900 --> 02:12:53,950
this slide shows the proposed heights in a street scape

2103
02:12:53,950 --> 02:12:57,120
elevation looking north on the right to the two towers

2104
02:12:57,120 --> 02:12:59,720
proposed at ten forty five yet street at twenty and

2105
02:12:59,720 --> 02:13:02,660
twenty one stories on the western side of the nine

2106
02:13:02,660 --> 02:13:06,100
hundred block above the podium is a single tower Tousey

2107
02:13:06,480 --> 02:13:09,510
which is it twenty nine stories on the eastern portion

2108
02:13:09,510 --> 02:13:11,910
of the nine hundred block this would contain two residential

2109
02:13:11,910 --> 02:13:15,740
towers above at thirty two stories the tower D. and

2110
02:13:15,740 --> 02:13:18,210
twenty stories Patel AT

2111
02:13:18,210 --> 02:13:20,620
although the proposal does exceed the maximum height sets out

2112
02:13:20,620 --> 02:13:23,100
to the relevant policy and this is shown by the

2113
02:13:23,100 --> 02:13:25,980
dashed lines here on the slide

2114
02:13:25,980 --> 02:13:28,640
it does configure the proposed towers and situated varies the

2115
02:13:28,640 --> 02:13:31,910
heights to provide interest in the skyline which something encouraged

2116
02:13:31,910 --> 02:13:34,280
by the guidelines

2117
02:13:34,280 --> 02:13:36,510
the design manual provide design from which is for future

2118
02:13:36,510 --> 02:13:39,800
phases and then for staff proposed to incorporate the proposed

2119
02:13:39,800 --> 02:13:43,780
building height into the amendments the OCP FM place designation

2120
02:13:44,290 --> 02:13:46,430
but we recommend a more cautionary approach to limit the

2121
02:13:46,430 --> 02:13:49,350
maximum building heights in the site specific zoning to be

2122
02:13:49,350 --> 02:13:52,740
consistent with the ACP which supports buildings up to twenty

2123
02:13:52,740 --> 02:13:54,290
stories

2124
02:13:54,290 --> 02:13:57,140
this means that the concurrent event permit with variance application

2125
02:13:57,470 --> 02:14:00,520
and any future development permit application will include a height

2126
02:14:00,520 --> 02:14:04,380
variance I require council consideration on an opportunity for public

2127
02:14:04,380 --> 02:14:07,990
comment

2128
02:14:07,990 --> 02:14:09,930
the following slide to focus on the land use open

2129
02:14:09,930 --> 02:14:14,120
space and housing highlights of the proposal

2130
02:14:14,120 --> 02:14:16,890
the three men uses a proposed the main uses of

2131
02:14:16,890 --> 02:14:20,590
the proposal ... a rental residential with indoor and outdoor

2132
02:14:20,590 --> 02:14:25,510
amenities retail office of public open space ten forty five

2133
02:14:25,510 --> 02:14:29,060
yet street includes a daycare with associated outdoor space the

2134
02:14:29,060 --> 02:14:35,520
next slide demonstrates the distribution of those uses

2135
02:14:35,520 --> 02:14:37,760
except right down of units for later phases has not

2136
02:14:37,760 --> 02:14:40,570
yet been determined that the first phase of the development

2137
02:14:40,570 --> 02:14:43,410
would contain approximately five hundred ten units in a makeshift

2138
02:14:43,410 --> 02:14:47,580
studios one bedroom two bedroom three bedroom and townhouse units

2139
02:14:47,780 --> 02:14:50,440
which would include a total of twenty three affordable units

2140
02:14:50,440 --> 02:14:53,450
that meet the city's median income brackets

2141
02:14:53,450 --> 02:14:55,880
this slide shows the distribution of rental apartments and town

2142
02:14:55,880 --> 02:14:59,140
houses on the townhouses are highlighted in the Reds read

2143
02:14:59,440 --> 02:15:02,470
portion of this slide are located along the street in

2144
02:15:02,470 --> 02:15:07,140
Vancouver street

2145
02:15:07,140 --> 02:15:09,430
this slide shows the distribution of commercial uses on the

2146
02:15:09,430 --> 02:15:10,880
ground floor

2147
02:15:10,880 --> 02:15:13,690
and the commercial retail and space includes three major tenants

2148
02:15:13,690 --> 02:15:21,240
and saves a small local shops and services

2149
02:15:21,240 --> 02:15:23,940
a third party language analysis was conducted and is attached

2150
02:15:23,940 --> 02:15:27,930
for council's consideration the report analyzed three different scenarios a

2151
02:15:27,930 --> 02:15:32,290
setup in the policy firstly as of right zoning entitlement

2152
02:15:32,700 --> 02:15:36,130
second scenario is the cheaper density the OCP based level

2153
02:15:36,340 --> 02:15:38,980
of three to one of I saw and that's not

2154
02:15:38,980 --> 02:15:41,480
is the proposed development

2155
02:15:41,480 --> 02:15:44,280
the report concludes that the proposed rezoning does not create

2156
02:15:44,280 --> 02:15:46,240
an increase in land value that can be used to

2157
02:15:46,240 --> 02:15:49,600
fund amenities under affordable housing and this is due to

2158
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:52,380
a number of factors the subject property has a high

2159
02:15:52,380 --> 02:15:55,380
existing achievable density under current zoning

2160
02:15:55,380 --> 02:15:58,050
the value of a completed rental buildings building passed by

2161
02:15:58,050 --> 02:16:01,880
foot is significantly lower than a compatible strata building despite

2162
02:16:01,880 --> 02:16:05,140
having similar cost to construct on the page rental project

2163
02:16:05,140 --> 02:16:07,690
requires concrete construction

2164
02:16:07,690 --> 02:16:10,770
but as mentioned earlier the applicant the application does provide

2165
02:16:10,770 --> 02:16:13,340
twenty three affordable residential units that would meet the city

2166
02:16:13,340 --> 02:16:17,240
Victoria definition for median income households a public plaza which

2167
02:16:17,240 --> 02:16:20,600
would be maintained by the applicant public realm improvements beyond

2168
02:16:20,600 --> 02:16:24,320
the city's basic standards and space for daycare we do

2169
02:16:24,320 --> 02:16:26,260
have the consultant available on the line to answer any

2170
02:16:26,260 --> 02:16:30,790
questions on this topic should they come up

2171
02:16:30,790 --> 02:16:33,540
central to the request for the increasing heightened density is

2172
02:16:33,540 --> 02:16:36,200
the provision of a central plaza this slide shows the

2173
02:16:36,200 --> 02:16:39,070
policy context in the D. cap which requires a plaza

2174
02:16:39,070 --> 02:16:42,480
between eight hundred and twelve hundred meters in size the

2175
02:16:42,480 --> 02:16:45,250
proposed exceeds the policy by including a plaza that that

2176
02:16:45,250 --> 02:16:48,650
will be a minimum of sixteen hundred square meters

2177
02:16:48,650 --> 02:16:50,680
although the detailed design has not been determined at this

2178
02:16:50,680 --> 02:16:53,650
stage the next few slides demonstrated conceptual design of the

2179
02:16:53,650 --> 02:16:56,680
space

2180
02:16:56,680 --> 02:16:59,710
the closest is divided into three distinct elements the eight

2181
02:16:59,710 --> 02:17:02,670
plaza containing a flexible space to accommodate a variety of

2182
02:17:02,670 --> 02:17:06,410
events the Harris green terrace containing says in a room

2183
02:17:07,050 --> 02:17:10,070
on the view street green containing alone diarrhea which would

2184
02:17:10,070 --> 02:17:12,450
have more of a residential focus

2185
02:17:12,450 --> 02:17:14,580
the total size would be a minimum of sixteen hundred

2186
02:17:14,580 --> 02:17:17,180
square meters which is roughly equal to the size of

2187
02:17:17,180 --> 02:17:21,210
fashion square between Wall Street and Langley street in addition

2188
02:17:21,210 --> 02:17:23,490
to the plaza the applicant has committed to providing a

2189
02:17:23,490 --> 02:17:26,360
public consultation valued at no less than three and fifty

2190
02:17:26,360 --> 02:17:30,030
thousand dollars

2191
02:17:30,030 --> 02:17:32,210
this slide shows the different elements of the plaza in

2192
02:17:32,210 --> 02:17:35,050
a rented fee with the H. street plaza being more

2193
02:17:35,050 --> 02:17:37,360
urban in nature and this will be flanked by commercial

2194
02:17:37,360 --> 02:17:40,730
uses and then and the lower image the shares of

2195
02:17:40,730 --> 02:17:42,820
the street green and Harris being terrace which would have

2196
02:17:42,820 --> 02:17:46,460
more residential focus surrounded by townhouses

2197
02:17:46,460 --> 02:17:50,110
for

2198
02:17:50,110 --> 02:17:57,530
this slide shows the conceptualization PhD plaza

2199
02:17:57,530 --> 02:17:59,420
and here we can see the plazas and intended to

2200
02:17:59,420 --> 02:18:01,830
be a flexible space that could accommodate a variety of

2201
02:18:01,830 --> 02:18:05,220
programming events throughout the year including food festivals and holiday

2202
02:18:05,220 --> 02:18:10,020
markets

2203
02:18:10,020 --> 02:18:11,750
this slide shows a rendering much of how the plaza

2204
02:18:11,750 --> 02:18:15,380
maybe automated

2205
02:18:15,380 --> 02:18:17,400
and this slide shows a rendering much of the street

2206
02:18:17,400 --> 02:18:20,230
frontage along a street which would include the detailed design

2207
02:18:20,230 --> 02:18:23,050
and installation of the two way protected bike lane we

2208
02:18:23,050 --> 02:18:26,820
should be secured through legal agreements

2209
02:18:26,820 --> 02:18:29,070
the delivery the plaza cannot be realized until the last

2210
02:18:29,070 --> 02:18:31,620
phase of development as the applicant has noted that the

2211
02:18:31,620 --> 02:18:35,370
phasing lines are dictated by existing structures on site the

2212
02:18:35,370 --> 02:18:38,510
recommended motion provides the necessary wording to ensure the plazas

2213
02:18:38,510 --> 02:18:41,690
delivered concurrently with the final phase of development and legal

2214
02:18:41,690 --> 02:18:44,270
agreements would be drafted to ensure the city is provided

2215
02:18:44,270 --> 02:18:48,390
with the security to ensure high quality construction and ultimately

2216
02:18:48,390 --> 02:18:51,920
is delivering

2217
02:18:51,920 --> 02:18:54,370
the next slide demonstrates the view and shot a studies

2218
02:18:54,940 --> 02:18:57,010
and how the impacts on the neighborhood would be three

2219
02:18:57,060 --> 02:19:00,700
... view and shot a studies

2220
02:19:00,700 --> 02:19:03,050
this slide shows the visual impact of the proposed development

2221
02:19:03,050 --> 02:19:06,310
from the Songhees point which is shown above an image

2222
02:19:06,310 --> 02:19:09,270
on the on the bottom shows at the proposal looking

2223
02:19:09,270 --> 02:19:17,500
south along the street

2224
02:19:17,500 --> 02:19:20,570
and this slide recently approved under construction developments shown in

2225
02:19:20,570 --> 02:19:24,040
purple with the subjects I outlined in blue

2226
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:26,450
the agreement shows a view along a street looking east

2227
02:19:26,520 --> 02:19:28,980
on the lower images show view looking south along cook

2228
02:19:28,980 --> 02:19:34,660
street

2229
02:19:34,660 --> 02:19:36,900
and in this study the upper image shows the subjects

2230
02:19:36,900 --> 02:19:39,550
blood site looking north along a street on the lower

2231
02:19:39,550 --> 02:19:41,620
end shows the visual impact of the proposal on the

2232
02:19:41,620 --> 02:19:45,980
city skyline when viewed from cook street looking south

2233
02:19:45,980 --> 02:19:49,920
and other recently approved ... developments will say Shane and

2234
02:19:50,120 --> 02:19:55,290
with the text in black on this slide

2235
02:19:55,290 --> 02:19:57,590
this image shows a shutter impacts of the proposed limping

2236
02:19:57,620 --> 02:20:00,900
at the summer solstice

2237
02:20:00,900 --> 02:20:02,750
and this slide shows a shot impacts of the proposal

2238
02:20:02,750 --> 02:20:07,400
during the equinox

2239
02:20:07,400 --> 02:20:10,430
in addition to the shutters studies the design manual includes

2240
02:20:10,430 --> 02:20:14,410
better shot analysis to test the proposed design guidelines and

2241
02:20:14,410 --> 02:20:17,260
this includes objectives to minimize the negative impacts of building

2242
02:20:17,260 --> 02:20:21,410
such as excessive shade shuttering improves he preaches on aims

2243
02:20:21,410 --> 02:20:24,340
to maximize access to natural light and views

2244
02:20:24,340 --> 02:20:27,210
the proposed guidelines established Pacific Sundays to ensure that the

2245
02:20:27,210 --> 02:20:32,490
current and future proposals meet these objectives

2246
02:20:32,490 --> 02:20:34,880
to verify the Russian of the increased height above policy

2247
02:20:34,880 --> 02:20:41,340
standards stuff requested a robust comparison the existing guidelines

2248
02:20:41,340 --> 02:20:43,690
this slide demonstrates what could be achieved under the current

2249
02:20:43,690 --> 02:20:46,560
account guidelines which is shown by the black dashed line

2250
02:20:47,180 --> 02:20:50,350
this is essentially results in a total of okay podium

2251
02:20:51,050 --> 02:20:54,180
the red areas show the proposed street facades and the

2252
02:20:54,180 --> 02:20:56,690
blueberries on top of the tower should the additional density

2253
02:20:56,690 --> 02:21:06,690
required to accommodate more human scaled lower podium heights

2254
02:21:06,690 --> 02:21:08,840
this slide shows the additional views of the same analysis

2255
02:21:08,840 --> 02:21:13,010
from quarter street and cook street

2256
02:21:13,010 --> 02:21:15,730
the stuff also requested amassing scenario that followed the T.

2257
02:21:15,730 --> 02:21:18,280
CAP guidelines at densities of five point five to one

2258
02:21:18,310 --> 02:21:20,730
I saw a six point one if I saw which

2259
02:21:20,730 --> 02:21:24,430
is shining green employee compared to the proposed development with

2260
02:21:24,430 --> 02:21:28,110
total towers in lower podiums which is shown in pink

2261
02:21:28,110 --> 02:21:32,670
these studies including the rezoning booklet although visually complex and

2262
02:21:32,670 --> 02:21:35,220
quite difficult to tell on the screen here they do

2263
02:21:35,220 --> 02:21:37,780
serve to demonstrate that a lot of podium would benefit

2264
02:21:37,780 --> 02:21:43,090
the public realm through G. stating

2265
02:21:43,090 --> 02:21:45,780
to conclude for the rezoning aspect to the proposal if

2266
02:21:45,780 --> 02:21:48,560
this includes a significant addition of rental housing and commercial

2267
02:21:48,560 --> 02:21:51,360
space to the having screen neighbourhood and includes the provision

2268
02:21:51,360 --> 02:21:53,700
of twenty three units of affordable housing as well as

2269
02:21:53,700 --> 02:21:56,900
a significant public plaza the proposed is consistent with the

2270
02:21:56,900 --> 02:21:59,670
official community plan except for the able to understand height

2271
02:21:59,670 --> 02:22:02,780
being sought however a rational consistent with the goals and

2272
02:22:02,780 --> 02:22:06,060
objectives of the OCP has been provided stuff that for

2273
02:22:06,060 --> 02:22:09,150
recommend supporting the rezoning and OCP amendment with the conditions

2274
02:22:09,150 --> 02:22:11,760
set out in the report

2275
02:22:11,760 --> 02:22:13,980
and I'll move on to focus on the company development

2276
02:22:13,980 --> 02:22:16,850
variance application which I need plus the first phase of

2277
02:22:16,850 --> 02:22:20,940
development at ten forty five eighth street

2278
02:22:20,940 --> 02:22:23,660
this slide shows the ground floor plan which includes a

2279
02:22:23,660 --> 02:22:27,020
mix of retail parking and ground floor residential uses location

2280
02:22:27,020 --> 02:22:29,710
on the ground floor is a generous parking in loading

2281
02:22:29,710 --> 02:22:32,290
area at the rear access to few street which is

2282
02:22:32,290 --> 02:22:35,100
in close and therefore subject to floor area as a

2283
02:22:35,100 --> 02:22:37,290
result the proposed density for this portion is six point

2284
02:22:37,290 --> 02:22:40,180
two to one floor space ratio

2285
02:22:40,180 --> 02:22:43,210
this slide shows the site layout five hundred ten units

2286
02:22:43,210 --> 02:22:45,540
are proposed as part of the space with twenty three

2287
02:22:45,540 --> 02:22:48,020
these being affordable housing that meets the definition for median

2288
02:22:48,020 --> 02:22:49,350
incomes

2289
02:22:49,350 --> 02:22:52,410
big classes access is proposed off the streets and residential

2290
02:22:52,410 --> 02:22:59,600
lucky lobbies a proposed updates and cook street

2291
02:22:59,600 --> 02:23:02,750
three levels underground parking proposed and help mitigate some of

2292
02:23:02,750 --> 02:23:06,290
the anticipated parking shortfall a number of mitigation measures as

2293
02:23:06,290 --> 02:23:09,400
detailed in the slide of being proposed this includes three

2294
02:23:09,400 --> 02:23:12,940
kasha vehicles and parking stills a hundred sixty nine caution

2295
02:23:12,940 --> 02:23:16,880
memberships for electric vehicle charging stations and long term end

2296
02:23:16,880 --> 02:23:20,170
of trip facilities these are considered to be acceptable I

2297
02:23:20,170 --> 02:23:24,780
will be secured to a legal agreement

2298
02:23:24,780 --> 02:23:27,530
details are proposed at twenty twenty one stories which is

2299
02:23:27,530 --> 02:23:30,180
one story above the maximum height prescribed in the OCP

2300
02:23:30,430 --> 02:23:33,930
in six stories above the maximum height prescribed anti cap

2301
02:23:33,930 --> 02:23:37,360
as described earlier variance above twenty stories and sixty meters

2302
02:23:37,360 --> 02:23:40,730
is required since the proposal has in court cooperated and

2303
02:23:40,730 --> 02:23:43,990
since the proposal has incorporated small floor plate place a

2304
02:23:43,990 --> 02:23:47,400
generous how separation to mitigate the perceived messing the proposed

2305
02:23:47,400 --> 02:23:50,320
height variance is considered supportable

2306
02:23:50,320 --> 02:23:52,650
events related to high to the height of the rooftop

2307
02:23:52,650 --> 02:23:56,650
structure is also proposed the staff recommendation includes requesting this

2308
02:23:56,650 --> 02:24:01,460
aspect of the design be reconsidered or otherwise mitigated

2309
02:24:01,460 --> 02:24:05,670
this slide shows East West elevations

2310
02:24:05,670 --> 02:24:09,010
the proposed materials are Mr brick spandrel panels a metal

2311
02:24:09,010 --> 02:24:14,350
panels which is generally consistent with the design guidelines

2312
02:24:14,350 --> 02:24:16,870
a number streetscape improvements are proposed and listed in the

2313
02:24:16,870 --> 02:24:20,490
rezoning of staff report among the improvements a new Boulevard

2314
02:24:20,490 --> 02:24:23,480
trees rain gardens on yet street and P. street on

2315
02:24:23,480 --> 02:24:26,000
the design and installation of new protected bike lane on

2316
02:24:26,000 --> 02:24:28,420
the street all of which will be secure by legal

2317
02:24:28,420 --> 02:24:31,110
agreement prior to public hearing

2318
02:24:31,110 --> 02:24:33,360
a small plaza with seating is proposed at the intersection

2319
02:24:33,360 --> 02:24:36,730
of yet street and cook street highlighted in red hair

2320
02:24:36,730 --> 02:24:40,210
opportunities opportunities exist to create entrances from the retail unit

2321
02:24:40,210 --> 02:24:43,260
on to the space which would improve its usability and

2322
02:24:43,260 --> 02:24:48,130
show the area adds to the vibrancy of the street

2323
02:24:48,130 --> 02:24:51,070
one level to the proposal includes private amenity courtyard for

2324
02:24:51,070 --> 02:24:54,760
residents and an outdoor play area the satiated proposed which

2325
02:24:54,760 --> 02:24:58,880
is associated with the proposed a cap

2326
02:24:58,880 --> 02:25:03,740
on level 4 plant is a proposed rubber Necker Coachella

2327
02:25:03,740 --> 02:25:06,200
on level five there is an additional shed seating area

2328
02:25:06,230 --> 02:25:10,820
on the remains of the Texas for private residential use

2329
02:25:10,820 --> 02:25:13,090
on level six the proposal includes a make sure private

2330
02:25:13,090 --> 02:25:15,980
parties and friends patches that would be available for tenants

2331
02:25:16,110 --> 02:25:19,970
as well as a shed dog run area

2332
02:25:19,970 --> 02:25:22,710
we've decades proposed a tower hi although the exact program

2333
02:25:22,960 --> 02:25:27,310
programming details have not yet been determined

2334
02:25:27,310 --> 02:25:30,130
the application was reviewed by the advisory design panel early

2335
02:25:30,130 --> 02:25:33,120
this year on the panel recommended the development be declined

2336
02:25:33,150 --> 02:25:35,810
and the following revisions for the night

2337
02:25:35,810 --> 02:25:39,740
recognizing the podium for more consideration of materiality the towers

2338
02:25:39,740 --> 02:25:42,660
in terms of which is a variation on consideration of

2339
02:25:42,660 --> 02:25:45,520
providing access to some public open space ... connection between

2340
02:25:45,520 --> 02:25:47,390
you and a street

2341
02:25:47,390 --> 02:25:50,640
staff over the applicant has adequately addressed the advisory design

2342
02:25:50,640 --> 02:25:53,870
panels concerns by adding a deep recess along H. street

2343
02:25:54,110 --> 02:25:57,310
refining the materiality of the towers and podium on by

2344
02:25:57,310 --> 02:26:00,260
adding is seating areas at the intersections along cook street

2345
02:26:00,920 --> 02:26:03,600
a connection between view and yet she was not incorporated

2346
02:26:03,630 --> 02:26:05,930
since the proposed increase this on the nine hundred block

2347
02:26:06,630 --> 02:26:09,530
additional revisions were incorporated on a listed in the staff

2348
02:26:09,530 --> 02:26:12,980
report

2349
02:26:12,980 --> 02:26:14,660
on ... and on a couple of rendered images of

2350
02:26:14,660 --> 02:26:19,870
the proposal this is speech from cook street

2351
02:26:19,870 --> 02:26:25,640
and this one shows view street looking north

2352
02:26:25,640 --> 02:26:28,090
to conclude all there but the proposal is not consistent

2353
02:26:28,090 --> 02:26:30,720
with a maximum height described in the guidelines it is

2354
02:26:30,720 --> 02:26:33,270
consistent with the built form principles in the core residential

2355
02:26:33,270 --> 02:26:36,780
designation of the ACP which supports buildings up to approximately

2356
02:26:36,780 --> 02:26:38,720
twenty stories

2357
02:26:38,720 --> 02:26:41,480
... is advances a number of objects objectives the development

2358
02:26:41,480 --> 02:26:46,080
part commentary three including high quality architecture landscape and Devin

2359
02:26:46,080 --> 02:26:49,790
Stein who greatest heights along a street on this basis

2360
02:26:49,820 --> 02:26:54,380
staff recommend for council's consideration that the application be supported

2361
02:26:54,380 --> 02:26:57,910
this concludes my presentation I'm happy to answer any questions

2362
02:26:57,910 --> 02:27:01,550
so what we going to do is that I would

2363
02:27:01,550 --> 02:27:03,730
entertain questions

2364
02:27:03,730 --> 02:27:10,410
hi on our ticket list councillor Loveday

2365
02:27:10,410 --> 02:27:12,790
thank you I

2366
02:27:12,790 --> 02:27:15,910
sure like my colleagues I have ... many and so

2367
02:27:15,910 --> 02:27:22,600
I'll just ... start with a few I'm

2368
02:27:22,600 --> 02:27:26,180
first off

2369
02:27:26,180 --> 02:27:30,270
what is the rationale from the city's perspective of having

2370
02:27:30,270 --> 02:27:36,870
these two sites come forward as one proposal

2371
02:27:36,870 --> 02:27:39,550
through the acting matters there's not really any policy that

2372
02:27:39,550 --> 02:27:43,480
prevents the application coming forward together ... it's not uncommon

2373
02:27:43,480 --> 02:27:47,970
for a rezoning applications ... for multiphase developments to included

2374
02:27:47,970 --> 02:27:51,090
development for the fast pace the applicant is chosen to

2375
02:27:51,090 --> 02:27:53,310
just come forward with the development for the phase one

2376
02:27:53,310 --> 02:27:55,690
night align

2377
02:27:55,690 --> 02:27:58,290
and maybe I'll just add to that a No Way

2378
02:27:58,290 --> 02:28:01,470
does the applicant it off easier by doing it we

2379
02:28:01,470 --> 02:28:05,500
look at the project comprehensively consider the heights across the

2380
02:28:05,500 --> 02:28:09,420
whole site and as well as the densities

2381
02:28:09,420 --> 02:28:14,250
the developer by doing it together it gives the developer

2382
02:28:14,250 --> 02:28:16,540
the opportunity to think about how they're going to stage

2383
02:28:16,540 --> 02:28:19,600
and how they're going to accommodate of businesses that they

2384
02:28:19,600 --> 02:28:23,690
hope to move so that there's as little disruption to

2385
02:28:23,690 --> 02:28:28,590
those businesses as possible

2386
02:28:28,590 --> 02:28:32,400
so it

2387
02:28:32,400 --> 02:28:38,970
with that hi so there couldn't applicant then essentially take

2388
02:28:39,000 --> 02:28:40,930
...

2389
02:28:40,930 --> 02:28:44,780
it unlimited number of on related sites and proposed to

2390
02:28:44,780 --> 02:28:46,320
miss one

2391
02:28:46,320 --> 02:28:50,350
rezoning

2392
02:28:50,350 --> 02:28:53,150
I think that would be very unusual flat circa ...

2393
02:28:53,200 --> 02:28:55,900
typically when we have such a large site such as

2394
02:28:55,900 --> 02:28:59,440
this we ask for additional information and in this case

2395
02:28:59,470 --> 02:29:03,560
... the rezoning booklets ... the design and that the

2396
02:29:03,560 --> 02:29:06,690
design manual is really the main P. the main assurances

2397
02:29:06,690 --> 02:29:09,760
that the city has got that the concept is presented

2398
02:29:09,760 --> 02:29:12,570
today is achievable and will be delivered

2399
02:29:12,570 --> 02:29:14,530
... but this night the east just mentioned that would

2400
02:29:14,530 --> 02:29:16,830
be very unusual for that to happen would there be

2401
02:29:16,830 --> 02:29:19,210
any ...

2402
02:29:19,210 --> 02:29:24,230
legally binding timelines for the development I know like for

2403
02:29:24,230 --> 02:29:26,180
example with the

2404
02:29:26,180 --> 02:29:28,780
plaza which I think is the

2405
02:29:28,780 --> 02:29:32,080
the mean amenity

2406
02:29:32,080 --> 02:29:37,220
being secured within phase three what if these three never

2407
02:29:37,220 --> 02:29:39,260
happens

2408
02:29:39,260 --> 02:29:42,770
through the mayor that this that could happen ... ...

2409
02:29:42,800 --> 02:29:45,410
there's no guarantee that phase two or three will come

2410
02:29:45,410 --> 02:29:49,490
forward ... however that you know phase two and that

2411
02:29:49,530 --> 02:29:53,140
of see that the plaza is part of ... the

2412
02:29:53,140 --> 02:29:55,210
main the main community amenities part as part of the

2413
02:29:55,210 --> 02:29:59,580
later phases ... but ultimately be

2414
02:29:59,580 --> 02:30:00,000
there are

2415
02:30:00,000 --> 02:30:03,020
significant number of units ... in the later phases and

2416
02:30:03,020 --> 02:30:05,320
so the applicant is of C. has the motivation to

2417
02:30:05,350 --> 02:30:09,080
come forward and deliver those faces we haven't ... up

2418
02:30:09,080 --> 02:30:11,000
to go into the details of the legal agreements in

2419
02:30:11,000 --> 02:30:15,970
terms of timing and how that may be impacted

2420
02:30:15,970 --> 02:30:19,620
okay and if you mentioned that the

2421
02:30:19,620 --> 02:30:23,180
consultant from the land left analysis is on line do

2422
02:30:23,180 --> 02:30:26,860
I just sort of ask questions and they will there

2423
02:30:27,040 --> 02:30:31,120
they will answer the

2424
02:30:31,120 --> 02:30:33,570
that's crazy is online yeah okay

2425
02:30:33,570 --> 02:30:37,380


2426
02:30:37,380 --> 02:30:43,530
welcome thank you for being here

2427
02:30:43,530 --> 02:30:46,200
with the

2428
02:30:46,200 --> 02:30:50,120
the land lease analysis

2429
02:30:50,120 --> 02:30:52,450
yes I I found it very surprising that there would

2430
02:30:52,450 --> 02:30:56,210
be no increase in in land left in in fact

2431
02:30:56,210 --> 02:30:59,390
that it would be seen as having a fairly major

2432
02:30:59,390 --> 02:31:03,580
reduction in vessel and so

2433
02:31:03,580 --> 02:31:06,740
the first question is

2434
02:31:06,740 --> 02:31:10,410
but you were ... an analysis and opinion would it

2435
02:31:10,410 --> 02:31:14,950
be that after this property was rezoned ... the applicant

2436
02:31:14,980 --> 02:31:19,470
would sell this property for less money ... then if

2437
02:31:19,590 --> 02:31:24,800
they were to sell it now

2438
02:31:24,800 --> 02:31:28,530
councillor Loveday explorer pair from Korea Alaska mayor and council

2439
02:31:28,530 --> 02:31:31,370
thanks for having me at the end committee meeting today

2440
02:31:31,630 --> 02:31:33,870
and I'm happy to answer anyone's questions as we go

2441
02:31:33,870 --> 02:31:38,150
along just just to be clear so ... councillor Loveday

2442
02:31:38,180 --> 02:31:43,930
... with your specific to your question ... the motion

2443
02:31:43,930 --> 02:31:46,410
for you get one response to your first pointer just

2444
02:31:46,410 --> 02:31:50,500
to your question but to answer your question ... yes

2445
02:31:50,500 --> 02:31:53,060
it would be our opinion that if the site was

2446
02:31:53,060 --> 02:31:57,420
rezoned so which required to be purpose built rental housing

2447
02:31:57,780 --> 02:32:00,980
in its entirety for the life of the building in

2448
02:32:00,980 --> 02:32:04,860
actually with team values the value of the land if

2449
02:32:04,860 --> 02:32:07,170
it was put on the open market and attempted to

2450
02:32:07,170 --> 02:32:09,990
be sold to another party

2451
02:32:09,990 --> 02:32:14,950
... and how does your analysis factor in the the

2452
02:32:14,950 --> 02:32:19,470
heights and the fact that ...

2453
02:32:19,470 --> 02:32:22,980
being the tallest buildings in the city I will likely

2454
02:32:22,980 --> 02:32:27,230
have a protected view scapes ... from ... many of

2455
02:32:27,230 --> 02:32:31,610
the floors of the ocean ... and ... very beautiful

2456
02:32:31,750 --> 02:32:37,000
city ... ... in perpetuity so how does that factor

2457
02:32:37,000 --> 02:32:40,660
into the valuation that every one of these ... floors

2458
02:32:40,660 --> 02:32:45,650
above what is ... currently allowed under zoning ...

2459
02:32:45,650 --> 02:32:49,740
will be very valuable

2460
02:32:49,740 --> 02:32:53,830
thanks so in response to that what is part of

2461
02:32:53,830 --> 02:32:58,660
our our financial analysis we need to complete an estimate

2462
02:32:58,660 --> 02:33:01,850
of the potential rant that could be achieved by the

2463
02:33:01,990 --> 02:33:06,750
the proposed units in the rezoning and so our our

2464
02:33:07,110 --> 02:33:12,530
our monthly rental estimates assume that the units in the

2465
02:33:12,530 --> 02:33:15,700
upper part of the building kind of calm very good

2466
02:33:15,700 --> 02:33:19,820
views and so it's reflected in our revenue estimates for

2467
02:33:19,820 --> 02:33:25,280
the completed buildings

2468
02:33:25,280 --> 02:33:32,730
and are those rents within your report

2469
02:33:32,730 --> 02:33:36,780
grants are so our our work was shared with city

2470
02:33:36,780 --> 02:33:39,990
staff and with the applicant

2471
02:33:39,990 --> 02:33:43,930
much of it is confidential because it contains information provided

2472
02:33:43,930 --> 02:33:48,260
by the applicant is proprietary and confidential so it's not

2473
02:33:48,260 --> 02:33:52,150
contained in the report ... that is in the public

2474
02:33:52,150 --> 02:33:57,670
staff document

2475
02:33:57,670 --> 02:34:02,610
okay that that sit of for ... ... for now

2476
02:34:02,800 --> 02:34:07,920
Blair thank you ... thank you

2477
02:34:07,920 --> 02:34:10,650
... maybe I'll see the floor for now thank you

2478
02:34:10,880 --> 02:34:14,830
thank you thanks councillor Dubow for a year yeah acting

2479
02:34:14,830 --> 02:34:18,780
mayor shift ... councils or enjoy your next thank you

2480
02:34:18,810 --> 02:34:20,540
...

2481
02:34:20,540 --> 02:34:23,150
it's hard not to make a comment this is a

2482
02:34:23,150 --> 02:34:28,940
very complex the application and ... hello a lot of

2483
02:34:28,940 --> 02:34:33,660
detail a lot of pieces ... so I think I'll

2484
02:34:33,660 --> 02:34:38,730
start off with comes ugh finishing work we're councillor Loveday

2485
02:34:39,100 --> 02:34:47,080
... started and I guess I'm having trouble ... understanding

2486
02:34:47,080 --> 02:34:49,320
the

2487
02:34:49,320 --> 02:34:52,420
... Sir what we call it that the design manual

2488
02:34:52,990 --> 02:34:54,450
so

2489
02:34:54,450 --> 02:34:58,980
it's the applicant the does the does through consultation a

2490
02:34:58,980 --> 02:35:00,550
design

2491
02:35:00,550 --> 02:35:04,540
manuals so what they're proposing for the design of these

2492
02:35:05,020 --> 02:35:08,390
this these properties is that my understanding is through my

2493
02:35:08,390 --> 02:35:11,200
that's correct ... ultimately the at the applicant hired a

2494
02:35:11,200 --> 02:35:14,820
consultant to prepare the design manual ... ... but it

2495
02:35:14,820 --> 02:35:18,100
has been prepared in close collaboration with city staff on

2496
02:35:18,100 --> 02:35:21,390
the reason why ... the design money often put forward

2497
02:35:21,630 --> 02:35:24,240
is because it is such a large project ... and

2498
02:35:24,240 --> 02:35:28,090
is seeking ... greater heights than the policy supports ...

2499
02:35:28,090 --> 02:35:30,690
so that's the rationale why they put forward the design

2500
02:35:30,690 --> 02:35:34,930
manual in the intent that it provides greater security ...

2501
02:35:34,930 --> 02:35:37,530
for the later phases where we don't have a developments

2502
02:35:37,630 --> 02:35:39,370
on the table today

2503
02:35:39,370 --> 02:35:43,510
he and the ... what is the difference between sort

2504
02:35:43,510 --> 02:35:46,500
of a design manual and so the most recent one

2505
02:35:46,500 --> 02:35:49,730
we dealt with it was a ... ... I guess

2506
02:35:49,730 --> 02:35:50,880
some

2507
02:35:50,880 --> 02:35:52,660
as I'm trying to think what the word is whether

2508
02:35:52,660 --> 02:35:56,760
it's a master plan for capital city where when the

2509
02:35:56,760 --> 02:36:01,150
jobs are built it was commented how they follow ...

2510
02:36:01,860 --> 02:36:04,110
the message about what's the difference sort of between the

2511
02:36:04,110 --> 02:36:05,900
two

2512
02:36:05,900 --> 02:36:08,420
I am through the mayor of the

2513
02:36:08,420 --> 02:36:11,140
if involved in the capsule pock ... project up I

2514
02:36:11,140 --> 02:36:14,340
believe that one had more historic context um it had

2515
02:36:14,340 --> 02:36:17,730
a a design money that had been the pad ...

2516
02:36:17,950 --> 02:36:20,340
many many years ago and so that was kind of

2517
02:36:20,340 --> 02:36:23,360
more of an update and refresh ... this one is

2518
02:36:23,360 --> 02:36:26,090
... ace is

2519
02:36:26,090 --> 02:36:29,180
it's been built at eight it has been developed in

2520
02:36:29,210 --> 02:36:32,410
collaboration with study city stuff by then develop services on

2521
02:36:32,410 --> 02:36:37,500
the community planning ... it is kind of ... run

2522
02:36:37,500 --> 02:36:40,440
parallel to the emerging review of the downtown core area

2523
02:36:40,440 --> 02:36:44,680
plan ... sales please it's been reviewed out from staff

2524
02:36:44,680 --> 02:36:48,140
by a number of different angles ... based in policy

2525
02:36:48,170 --> 02:36:50,480
and from development services

2526
02:36:50,480 --> 02:36:53,560
... but ... ultimately it is going to ... if

2527
02:36:53,560 --> 02:36:55,680
if approved then they'll see will set the tone for

2528
02:36:55,680 --> 02:36:59,850
those future phases so any any development that comes forward

2529
02:36:59,850 --> 02:37:02,330
for the the size of any future phases will be

2530
02:37:02,670 --> 02:37:07,920
reviewed based on both this document the design manual and

2531
02:37:08,290 --> 02:37:12,040
existing decapitated it doesn't replace the downtown core area plan

2532
02:37:12,040 --> 02:37:13,730
I think is maybe an easy ways on to your

2533
02:37:13,730 --> 02:37:17,530
question ... is is an extra layer of policy ...

2534
02:37:17,530 --> 02:37:20,890
on top of what already exists okay thank you thank

2535
02:37:20,890 --> 02:37:23,820
you for all the set explanation because I'm very kind

2536
02:37:23,820 --> 02:37:26,530
of confused about this piece so to go along with

2537
02:37:26,590 --> 02:37:30,050
that ... having just finished discussing a little bit the

2538
02:37:30,050 --> 02:37:34,520
village in corridor ... planning and how it was moved

2539
02:37:34,520 --> 02:37:37,250
to next week because ... we want to get input

2540
02:37:37,250 --> 02:37:41,910
from from the neighborhood said that are most affected with

2541
02:37:41,910 --> 02:37:46,900
this plan so this design ... manual I hear that

2542
02:37:46,900 --> 02:37:49,240
it was done by the applicant Tim with that work

2543
02:37:49,240 --> 02:37:51,810
with the city staff

2544
02:37:51,810 --> 02:37:54,690
this is not something that would come to the city

2545
02:37:55,140 --> 02:37:59,130
the council table to one say whether we agree with

2546
02:37:59,130 --> 02:38:04,590
this design manual and to the uh neighborhood association to

2547
02:38:04,590 --> 02:38:08,060
see if they also agree with the support the design

2548
02:38:08,060 --> 02:38:09,750
manual

2549
02:38:09,750 --> 02:38:11,740
and I know I think it went to sort of

2550
02:38:11,740 --> 02:38:14,810
was considered to be called ADP but I'm just trying

2551
02:38:14,810 --> 02:38:18,750
to understand first how the design manual fits in and

2552
02:38:18,750 --> 02:38:21,770
who approves the design manual since that is a big

2553
02:38:21,770 --> 02:38:24,770
piece of what's being proposed

2554
02:38:24,770 --> 02:38:27,100
it oversee by the nation is that if it is

2555
02:38:27,100 --> 02:38:29,290
part of the attachment is part of the consideration for

2556
02:38:29,290 --> 02:38:33,020
council stay below twenty the preparation design guidelines is is

2557
02:38:33,020 --> 02:38:36,950
quite and expertise ... it does require a significant expertise

2558
02:38:36,950 --> 02:38:39,840
from the design profession ... that's not to say that

2559
02:38:39,840 --> 02:38:41,420
the public don't have a right to comment on it

2560
02:38:41,520 --> 02:38:44,820
of course the day ... but really the preparation of

2561
02:38:44,820 --> 02:38:48,300
design guidelines is is quite specialised area ... in terms

2562
02:38:48,300 --> 02:38:51,770
of setting up the right intent the right design guidelines

2563
02:38:52,080 --> 02:38:54,450
... stuff we also need to be able to interpret

2564
02:38:54,450 --> 02:38:56,230
the policy in a in a certain way that it

2565
02:38:56,230 --> 02:39:00,470
makes sense ... say it is a complex process and

2566
02:39:00,500 --> 02:39:02,950
and that's why it's we we do tend to leave

2567
02:39:02,950 --> 02:39:05,710
it to the expense ... in that regard ... but

2568
02:39:05,710 --> 02:39:09,140
ultimately what the design guidelines results and is the concept

2569
02:39:09,140 --> 02:39:12,610
that as shown in the ... in the renderings in

2570
02:39:12,610 --> 02:39:15,500
the conceptual design of the rezoning booklet which is probably

2571
02:39:15,500 --> 02:39:21,120
something that the public can more easily identify with

2572
02:39:21,120 --> 02:39:24,040
perhaps oldest if I can add to it a bit

2573
02:39:24,150 --> 02:39:27,010
this isn't unusual so the design manuals just another word

2574
02:39:27,010 --> 02:39:30,330
for design guidelines and so the official community plan needs

2575
02:39:30,330 --> 02:39:33,500
to be amended in order to incorporate that and so

2576
02:39:33,780 --> 02:39:36,780
there's a whole process that set out regarding the official

2577
02:39:36,780 --> 02:39:42,320
community plan amendment does ... require that consultation both the

2578
02:39:42,320 --> 02:39:45,510
referral that originally happened to the cal Luke ... but

2579
02:39:45,510 --> 02:39:49,930
then through the process in council's motion there's the ...

2580
02:39:50,230 --> 02:39:52,850
motion that it council consider referring it out to people

2581
02:39:52,850 --> 02:39:55,260
within two hundred meters and where it goes from there

2582
02:39:55,480 --> 02:40:00,380
so that consultation will continue and in just in terms

2583
02:40:00,380 --> 02:40:03,220
of the discussion in relation to capitol park and other

2584
02:40:03,220 --> 02:40:06,040
projects and and should we be looking at this first

2585
02:40:06,040 --> 02:40:08,740
or second there's there's no right or wrong way of

2586
02:40:08,980 --> 02:40:12,540
council doing it and it could be piece depart but

2587
02:40:12,540 --> 02:40:17,160
this is consistent with for instance how ... dockside was

2588
02:40:17,160 --> 02:40:21,130
done rail yards capital park a lot of the large

2589
02:40:21,130 --> 02:40:23,970
rezoning's I'm trying to think of anywhere it has come

2590
02:40:23,970 --> 02:40:27,380
to council in stages they usually come together because the

2591
02:40:27,380 --> 02:40:30,810
design guidelines or informing the rezoning and how that would

2592
02:40:30,810 --> 02:40:33,360
work

2593
02:40:33,360 --> 02:40:37,900
okay thank you for that some

2594
02:40:37,900 --> 02:40:44,090
in the go to and next some questions

2595
02:40:44,090 --> 02:40:46,450


2596
02:40:46,450 --> 02:40:50,910
so so we're so there's the design guidelines of the

2597
02:40:50,910 --> 02:40:54,210
bird looking at a rezoning for both property for both

2598
02:40:54,210 --> 02:40:57,590
sides and now we're looking for the development permit for

2599
02:40:57,720 --> 02:41:01,480
the one site and I also want to go back

2600
02:41:01,480 --> 02:41:06,590
to councillor Loveday's questions and make make sure I

2601
02:41:06,590 --> 02:41:11,350
... and so usually when we have had ... sites

2602
02:41:11,350 --> 02:41:14,200
like dockside a real yards or

2603
02:41:14,200 --> 02:41:18,360
... I guess even that the Hudson or like ...

2604
02:41:18,360 --> 02:41:22,940
capital park ... the developers actually is the whole site

2605
02:41:22,940 --> 02:41:25,790
is one site this one is to is to almost

2606
02:41:25,790 --> 02:41:31,460
two pieces divided by region region park region and and

2607
02:41:31,460 --> 02:41:33,960
so on I I don't quite understand how it can

2608
02:41:33,960 --> 02:41:38,090
come sort of as as one

2609
02:41:38,090 --> 02:41:40,610
to me they're 2 separate

2610
02:41:40,610 --> 02:41:43,870
like even

2611
02:41:43,870 --> 02:41:49,950
David the to char development on cook and gates this

2612
02:41:50,030 --> 02:41:54,080
is is more in line to me as a sort

2613
02:41:54,080 --> 02:41:59,190
of one ... design manual as because it's all on

2614
02:41:59,190 --> 02:42:03,260
one sort of adjoining attached sites where is this one

2615
02:42:03,290 --> 02:42:05,270
is not attached

2616
02:42:05,270 --> 02:42:09,960
so is this done before or is this

2617
02:42:09,960 --> 02:42:13,010
something different

2618
02:42:13,010 --> 02:42:15,280
I think the easiest way to answer questions there's nothing

2619
02:42:15,280 --> 02:42:19,240
up in our bylaws that prevents applications being submitted concurrently

2620
02:42:19,240 --> 02:42:23,270
as part of one rezoning application just because I'm not

2621
02:42:23,270 --> 02:42:27,330
one contiguous lots ...

2622
02:42:27,330 --> 02:42:32,440
we we did

2623
02:42:32,440 --> 02:42:34,860
what ms witnessing is correct and there are I can

2624
02:42:34,860 --> 02:42:37,250
think of examples like if you look at dockside technically

2625
02:42:37,250 --> 02:42:40,450
it's not a contiguous site it's divided in part by

2626
02:42:40,450 --> 02:42:42,890
tiny road in you you cross the street there's not

2627
02:42:42,890 --> 02:42:46,580
another development site in between but it's divided melts in

2628
02:42:46,580 --> 02:42:50,090
Angela's came forward and council ... was considering amounts in

2629
02:42:50,090 --> 02:42:53,570
Angela and I'm not sure everything everything cross the finish

2630
02:42:53,570 --> 02:42:55,910
line on the same day but there was a property

2631
02:42:56,250 --> 02:42:59,380
... I think it's on Balmoral by the castle centre

2632
02:42:59,680 --> 02:43:05,400
it was related ... so if it does happen and

2633
02:43:05,400 --> 02:43:07,080
...

2634
02:43:07,080 --> 02:43:10,990
again it's the developer has made this choice because it

2635
02:43:10,990 --> 02:43:15,130
makes sense for them to look at these properties comprehensively

2636
02:43:15,130 --> 02:43:18,560
so they can move things around it has advantages to

2637
02:43:18,560 --> 02:43:22,510
staff and that we're able to look at comprehensive sort

2638
02:43:22,510 --> 02:43:25,530
of sidewalk improvements and how the whole site will work

2639
02:43:25,530 --> 02:43:31,490
together ... there's a better understanding about phasing about what

2640
02:43:31,490 --> 02:43:34,540
will happen when and knowing that with the first phase

2641
02:43:34,570 --> 02:43:37,620
that the twenty three units of affordable housing will come

2642
02:43:37,620 --> 02:43:41,280
online in and so forth but did some really not

2643
02:43:41,280 --> 02:43:43,750
a right or a wrong

2644
02:43:43,750 --> 02:43:46,240
thank thank you affix for helping out with some of

2645
02:43:46,240 --> 02:43:49,370
the some standing on I don't know if it was

2646
02:43:49,370 --> 02:43:53,170
yesterday or this morning we received an email from Chris

2647
02:43:53,170 --> 02:43:55,390
Gower who was a staff I don't know staff and

2648
02:43:55,390 --> 02:43:57,960
see the letter

2649
02:43:57,960 --> 02:44:01,810
okay ... so maybe we need to be a center

2650
02:44:01,810 --> 02:44:07,650
... but I really appreciated his letter and she mentions

2651
02:44:07,650 --> 02:44:11,070
that one of his chief assignments as senior senior planner

2652
02:44:11,070 --> 02:44:14,910
for urban design in Victoria when he worked out for

2653
02:44:14,910 --> 02:44:18,360
the city was the preparation of the downtown core area

2654
02:44:18,360 --> 02:44:22,000
plan and ... he said the letter to councils and

2655
02:44:22,000 --> 02:44:28,040
he talks about ... what was considered when when ...

2656
02:44:28,040 --> 02:44:33,400
doing this and others 3 D. modeling

2657
02:44:33,400 --> 02:44:39,310
and so he he expresses concerns ... about the the

2658
02:44:39,310 --> 02:44:44,810
heightened density ... and taking away the the the Victoria's

2659
02:44:44,810 --> 02:44:49,010
unique place up but the main thrust of it is

2660
02:44:49,040 --> 02:44:53,130
that of that this the work that was done ...

2661
02:44:53,130 --> 02:44:57,290
for this area would never envisioned of this kind of

2662
02:44:57,290 --> 02:45:01,830
... heightened density in these areas ... so I don't

2663
02:45:01,830 --> 02:45:05,450
know ... whether it is appropriate for me to ask

2664
02:45:05,450 --> 02:45:09,560
of ... your thoughts on or

2665
02:45:09,560 --> 02:45:12,290
you know with the with the current

2666
02:45:12,290 --> 02:45:16,230
I am that exists

2667
02:45:16,230 --> 02:45:20,180
I guess I have trouble understanding how this degree of

2668
02:45:21,210 --> 02:45:22,950
density

2669
02:45:22,950 --> 02:45:27,150
catfish the computers supported ... in consideration of of the

2670
02:45:27,150 --> 02:45:31,910
letter that ... Mr Gower wrote when he worked on

2671
02:45:31,910 --> 02:45:33,370
the plan

2672
02:45:33,370 --> 02:45:35,770
... through the mat will see con coming to less

2673
02:45:35,770 --> 02:45:39,440
we haven't seen it ... but at in a through

2674
02:45:39,440 --> 02:45:42,390
the staff report was in the presentation we try to

2675
02:45:42,390 --> 02:45:46,000
explain is that yes is this news there's no getting

2676
02:45:46,000 --> 02:45:48,450
around the highest the highest all significantly higher than what

2677
02:45:48,450 --> 02:45:52,790
the policy proposes but the trade off is ... is

2678
02:45:52,820 --> 02:45:56,220
a smaller podiums the current the current D. cap ...

2679
02:45:56,220 --> 02:45:58,900
as shown in the massing studies at even the presentation

2680
02:45:59,300 --> 02:46:03,920
does ... allow for much mold okay yeah ... squatter

2681
02:46:03,970 --> 02:46:06,880
at both here and ...

2682
02:46:06,880 --> 02:46:10,350
heavier podiums ... that that go up to twenty stories

2683
02:46:10,350 --> 02:46:13,120
the OCP and the T. CAP ... develop to twenty

2684
02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:16,290
stories ... but in a more Bochy way and the

2685
02:46:16,290 --> 02:46:19,930
lower portion of the buildings what this proposal does is

2686
02:46:20,520 --> 02:46:24,840
essentially I have a ticket because by virtue of the

2687
02:46:24,840 --> 02:46:27,720
fact that it is a a large sites it has

2688
02:46:27,720 --> 02:46:32,210
the space and flexibility to spread those towers out ...

2689
02:46:32,590 --> 02:46:36,220
with more building separation distances ... through the work with

2690
02:46:36,220 --> 02:46:40,530
staff ... the podiums have been leveraged ... which ...

2691
02:46:40,530 --> 02:46:43,020
staff of the opinion is an improvement on the current

2692
02:46:43,020 --> 02:46:46,750
guidelines ... in terms of providing a more human scale

2693
02:46:46,850 --> 02:46:50,580
... missing from the street level which is ultimately how

2694
02:46:50,660 --> 02:46:58,190
we all experienced the city

2695
02:46:58,190 --> 02:47:01,120
Sir could I just add to that a lead

2696
02:47:01,120 --> 02:47:04,240
yes go ahead so thank you ... I just wanted

2697
02:47:04,240 --> 02:47:08,400
to note to that these are rental buildings and rental

2698
02:47:08,550 --> 02:47:11,990
does change the formula it doesn't change our policy but

2699
02:47:11,990 --> 02:47:16,140
it changes what's needed to make projects viable ... you

2700
02:47:16,140 --> 02:47:18,700
know years ago we were talking about rental and that's

2701
02:47:18,700 --> 02:47:21,220
the reason that we're having a lot of the situations

2702
02:47:21,220 --> 02:47:22,890
that we have right now where we don't have the

2703
02:47:22,890 --> 02:47:25,180
housing that we need for people if these were built

2704
02:47:25,180 --> 02:47:27,770
as condos it could be you know quite a bit

2705
02:47:27,840 --> 02:47:30,440
a bit smaller so those are ... also some of

2706
02:47:30,440 --> 02:47:32,800
the trade offs and in addition to the urban design

2707
02:47:33,000 --> 02:47:35,620
is the types of pieces that we're looking at this

2708
02:47:35,660 --> 02:47:38,100
so thank you for that and I'm gonna pick up

2709
02:47:38,130 --> 02:47:41,740
after my just a little ... response I'll cede the

2710
02:47:41,740 --> 02:47:44,590
floor and come back to the rest my question but

2711
02:47:45,270 --> 02:47:47,690
I guess so my understanding is that the fact that

2712
02:47:47,690 --> 02:47:52,420
these are rental is is what's driving the heightened density

2713
02:47:52,420 --> 02:47:55,750
is would that be part of from my understanding that

2714
02:47:55,750 --> 02:47:58,230
is is I issue said of these were all condos

2715
02:47:58,580 --> 02:48:00,180
...

2716
02:48:00,180 --> 02:48:04,700
that would make the heightened density let's look at that

2717
02:48:05,200 --> 02:48:07,280
I would expect with us or through the mayor ...

2718
02:48:07,280 --> 02:48:09,480
I I would expect that the density would be less

2719
02:48:09,480 --> 02:48:11,880
if it if it was a a condo building ...

2720
02:48:11,880 --> 02:48:14,790
but we're really looking at in this proposal is ...

2721
02:48:14,820 --> 02:48:17,610
the applicant has come forward with with a proposal that

2722
02:48:17,610 --> 02:48:21,440
includes rental housing ... has indicated a need for a

2723
02:48:21,440 --> 02:48:24,790
certain level of density and the pharmacy in front of

2724
02:48:24,790 --> 02:48:28,110
you has ...

2725
02:48:28,110 --> 02:48:31,460
has mitigated the impacts of that heightened density as much

2726
02:48:31,600 --> 02:48:35,030
... as possible ... as as ... as Wayne said

2727
02:48:35,210 --> 02:48:36,940
you know you can you can have you can have

2728
02:48:36,940 --> 02:48:39,380
shorter fatter buildings are you can have taller slimmer buildings

2729
02:48:39,380 --> 02:48:43,350
with the same density ... if council disagrees with the

2730
02:48:43,350 --> 02:48:48,470
density that's proposed ... yeah that's that's the purview of

2731
02:48:48,500 --> 02:48:52,170
of council but I would expect that if the density

2732
02:48:52,170 --> 02:48:56,160
was reduced that we would not be seen ... rental

2733
02:48:56,270 --> 02:48:59,550
... happening in this location okay thank you and I

2734
02:48:59,550 --> 02:49:02,600
do have one put forth the just reminders on optical

2735
02:49:02,600 --> 02:49:05,850
scroll through can you remind me of the amount of

2736
02:49:05,850 --> 02:49:12,340
rentals are being provided what percentage is affordable

2737
02:49:12,340 --> 02:49:15,590
Sir Elton this is ... for phase one and only

2738
02:49:15,590 --> 02:49:18,240
after the five and ten units proposed twenty three of

2739
02:49:18,240 --> 02:49:22,330
them are affordable as per the city's median income brackets

2740
02:49:22,980 --> 02:49:26,100
search for this the space for the first phase answer

2741
02:49:26,100 --> 02:49:28,980
what percent twenty three out of five hundred and ten

2742
02:49:29,990 --> 02:49:32,520
twenty three out of five hundred and ten yeah okay

2743
02:49:32,890 --> 02:49:36,520
thank you that's it thank you thank you other questions

2744
02:49:36,710 --> 02:49:39,230
yeah councillor Dubow and then councillor young

2745
02:49:39,230 --> 02:49:43,730
thanks mayor helps and for the whole new faces how

2746
02:49:43,730 --> 02:49:47,970
long will it take to for construction

2747
02:49:47,970 --> 02:49:50,800
that's something that the applicant is best placed on seven

2748
02:49:50,800 --> 02:49:55,060
staff ... but I mean based on typical timing and

2749
02:49:55,060 --> 02:49:57,900
construction phases it you know the the latest fate the

2750
02:49:57,900 --> 02:50:01,200
later phases couldn't be realized that potentially in a set

2751
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:03,470
of five to seven years from now

2752
02:50:03,470 --> 02:50:06,310
so is it fair to say minimum five years I

2753
02:50:06,310 --> 02:50:09,210
think that's a fair assumption okay

2754
02:50:09,210 --> 02:50:12,860
my second question

2755
02:50:12,860 --> 02:50:17,300
you earlier indicated that they would be twenty three units

2756
02:50:17,330 --> 02:50:20,920
affordable created by medium income

2757
02:50:20,920 --> 02:50:23,740
and in the report to this also indicates they would

2758
02:50:23,740 --> 02:50:27,880
be fifteen units lost is that correct

2759
02:50:27,880 --> 02:50:32,590
that is correct yes so we have and one hundred

2760
02:50:33,270 --> 02:50:36,030
and we've

2761
02:50:36,030 --> 02:50:40,850
so that means the project would lose fifteen and units

2762
02:50:40,850 --> 02:50:46,450
affordable I'm getting twenty three affordable medium income

2763
02:50:46,450 --> 02:50:49,030
so I just wanted to point out this was more

2764
02:50:49,030 --> 02:50:53,550
than a comment to the question so thank you

2765
02:50:53,550 --> 02:50:55,730
that did nothing further all

2766
02:50:55,730 --> 02:50:58,350
I'll come back to it okay thank you ... councillor

2767
02:50:58,350 --> 02:51:03,130
young and councillor Isitt it just to follow up on

2768
02:51:03,160 --> 02:51:08,180
on the previous question ... did councillor Loveday is an

2769
02:51:08,230 --> 02:51:12,030
and others on the phasing

2770
02:51:12,030 --> 02:51:18,040
mmhm I see the ... the density on the eastern

2771
02:51:18,080 --> 02:51:22,650
half block is a slightly higher

2772
02:51:22,650 --> 02:51:25,910
then the

2773
02:51:25,910 --> 02:51:28,730
on the west block I think ... and I I

2774
02:51:28,730 --> 02:51:33,980
think the basic density of allowable is actually lower

2775
02:51:33,980 --> 02:51:39,210
... so I guess the question is if indeed ...

2776
02:51:39,980 --> 02:51:43,520
the second phase never takes place

2777
02:51:43,520 --> 02:51:47,000
... or or if you if you if them put

2778
02:51:47,000 --> 02:51:49,520
another way the if you ignore the possibility of the

2779
02:51:49,520 --> 02:51:56,360
second phase which includes ... the ... the the plaza

2780
02:51:56,360 --> 02:51:59,980
who would be your recommendation on the first phase speak

2781
02:51:59,980 --> 02:52:08,020
different given the ... increase in the allowable density and

2782
02:52:08,110 --> 02:52:15,040
... the whatever amenities are being provided in phase one

2783
02:52:15,040 --> 02:52:18,850
thanks for the question ... that's the interesting one ...

2784
02:52:19,380 --> 02:52:23,190
I mean the the main driver for the community many

2785
02:52:23,190 --> 02:52:26,080
teas as part of the overall project is the community

2786
02:52:26,080 --> 02:52:30,080
plaza ... as part of the nine hundred block if

2787
02:52:30,080 --> 02:52:35,490
the first phase was viewed in isolation ... my professional

2788
02:52:35,490 --> 02:52:38,380
opinion is that I think it would be supportable based

2789
02:52:38,380 --> 02:52:41,560
on the fact that it is is low height it's

2790
02:52:41,660 --> 02:52:45,160
... it's for twenty one stories the OCP suppose twenty

2791
02:52:45,160 --> 02:52:49,180
stories um the magnitude of the various being sorted less

2792
02:52:49,700 --> 02:52:51,000
...

2793
02:52:51,000 --> 02:52:53,480
Axcelis

2794
02:52:53,480 --> 02:52:57,260
I've done if that answers your question hello the up

2795
02:52:57,490 --> 02:53:01,370
uptake in in FSR as creators

2796
02:53:01,370 --> 02:53:04,030
eight six point two to one ... floor space ratio

2797
02:53:04,030 --> 02:53:05,500
for that

2798
02:53:05,500 --> 02:53:08,150
Postle and that is

2799
02:53:08,150 --> 02:53:12,050
there was some ... there's a lot of add did

2800
02:53:12,050 --> 02:53:15,270
discussion with this particular project ... and the applicant and

2801
02:53:15,600 --> 02:53:19,250
it was is the reason why it doesn't it doesn't

2802
02:53:19,250 --> 02:53:21,650
have the same densities nine hundred block is that the

2803
02:53:21,930 --> 02:53:26,560
loading area on this possible asing closed ... subject to

2804
02:53:26,560 --> 02:53:30,510
floor space ... and is that large loading area that's

2805
02:53:30,510 --> 02:53:35,180
needed to serve the anticipated attendance ... for the commercial

2806
02:53:35,180 --> 02:53:39,180
units the nine hundred block isn't anticipated to have the

2807
02:53:39,180 --> 02:53:42,590
same issues because of the great changes between gays and

2808
02:53:42,590 --> 02:53:46,330
you street the parking areas is anticipated to be more

2809
02:53:46,360 --> 02:53:53,540
underground and that full notes ... county towards full space

2810
02:53:53,540 --> 02:53:55,780
thank you I'm

2811
02:53:55,780 --> 02:53:58,800
this is the there's some

2812
02:53:58,800 --> 02:54:05,120
the design guidelines stress the setbacks between the buildings ...

2813
02:54:05,200 --> 02:54:09,410
twenty three meters I think which is ...

2814
02:54:09,410 --> 02:54:13,500
and and the those I think resulted from some earlier

2815
02:54:13,500 --> 02:54:16,020
concerns ...

2816
02:54:16,020 --> 02:54:21,690
stemming from the R. 48 zoning but

2817
02:54:21,690 --> 02:54:24,000
would the

2818
02:54:24,000 --> 02:54:28,770
analysis be any different if you use it took the

2819
02:54:28,950 --> 02:54:32,790
following point of view we think that twenty three meters

2820
02:54:32,820 --> 02:54:38,580
I think it was is appropriate ... for the setback

2821
02:54:38,580 --> 02:54:42,070
between a new building and an existing building

2822
02:54:42,070 --> 02:54:43,940
but

2823
02:54:43,940 --> 02:54:49,730
with regard to set backs within a development site

2824
02:54:49,730 --> 02:54:53,150
... people can do whatever they want ... is there

2825
02:54:53,150 --> 02:54:57,750
building to rental buildings on the site ...

2826
02:54:57,750 --> 02:55:02,030
they can be when people walk into the unit and

2827
02:55:02,030 --> 02:55:05,770
decide whether they want a rented the other building is

2828
02:55:05,770 --> 02:55:10,930
there ... the developer can make whatever decision he wants

2829
02:55:11,220 --> 02:55:17,430
with regard to those internal setbacks would the analysis and

2830
02:55:17,430 --> 02:55:22,900
specifically ... the limit on the number of towers and

2831
02:55:22,950 --> 02:55:26,780
consequently the height of the towers ... be different if

2832
02:55:26,780 --> 02:55:31,600
you took the stance that ... the developer can make

2833
02:55:31,600 --> 02:55:34,920
his own decision with regard to setbacks

2834
02:55:34,920 --> 02:55:41,200
between the buildings and the new buildings or

2835
02:55:41,200 --> 02:55:48,120
is there some consideration of relationship to existing neighborhood ...

2836
02:55:48,120 --> 02:55:59,510
that ... dictates the design

2837
02:55:59,510 --> 02:56:04,050
I think that was

2838
02:56:04,050 --> 02:56:05,990
is it I think that I think in a way

2839
02:56:05,990 --> 02:56:10,100
... opposing result because I'm thinking ... of the question

2840
02:56:10,130 --> 02:56:13,790
that was in the ...

2841
02:56:13,790 --> 02:56:19,790
ultimately the the applicant has come forward to the proposal

2842
02:56:19,790 --> 02:56:23,020
whereas the two tower and it just to clarify your

2843
02:56:23,020 --> 02:56:25,830
question specific to the phase one or the overall come

2844
02:56:26,120 --> 02:56:31,070
in actually it was probably more relevant to phase two

2845
02:56:31,410 --> 02:56:36,720
where the higher heights are contemplated and where there's a

2846
02:56:36,720 --> 02:56:38,280
specific

2847
02:56:38,280 --> 02:56:41,150
a provision in the recommendation that says no more than

2848
02:56:41,840 --> 02:56:45,540
three towers on the on the nine hundred block and

2849
02:56:45,760 --> 02:56:50,080
... well this is the background as you're probably aware

2850
02:56:50,080 --> 02:56:51,430
is that

2851
02:56:51,430 --> 02:56:55,450
... when people first started bringing forward ... developments under

2852
02:56:55,450 --> 02:57:00,470
the R. forty eight ... we discovered that if two

2853
02:57:00,470 --> 02:57:04,480
adjacent buildings built by two developers used a very narrow

2854
02:57:04,480 --> 02:57:10,920
setbacks you'd you'd have unlivable circumstances people would be balconies

2855
02:57:10,920 --> 02:57:12,130
would be

2856
02:57:12,130 --> 02:57:16,630
bumping into each other almost ... so we use set

2857
02:57:16,630 --> 02:57:22,050
these big setbacks which between towers and what I'm wondering

2858
02:57:22,050 --> 02:57:26,940
is whether these big setbacks that are proposed ... on

2859
02:57:26,940 --> 02:57:29,670
the nine hundred block in particular

2860
02:57:29,670 --> 02:57:33,960
... for the benefit of the development itself floor they

2861
02:57:33,960 --> 02:57:38,860
really for the benefit of the surrounding neighborhood and existing

2862
02:57:38,860 --> 02:57:40,490
buildings

2863
02:57:40,490 --> 02:57:43,380
thank you for that point of clarification asa ... ...

2864
02:57:43,490 --> 02:57:48,650
we appreciate it I'm based relay is twofold ... the

2865
02:57:48,690 --> 02:57:51,840
if if you look at the ... the design intent

2866
02:57:51,840 --> 02:57:55,670
for the design manual is both to preserve the livability

2867
02:57:55,710 --> 02:58:00,100
of ... existing and future residence ... this slide I

2868
02:58:00,100 --> 02:58:03,840
showed in the presentation with the red boxes that demonstrates

2869
02:58:03,840 --> 02:58:08,290
how the towers have been ... position not only to

2870
02:58:08,290 --> 02:58:12,300
benefit the red line of the subject parcel but also

2871
02:58:12,300 --> 02:58:15,670
the surrounding context in terms of the total buildings this

2872
02:58:15,700 --> 02:58:18,590
determine how screen neighbourhood of intended to be going to

2873
02:58:18,590 --> 02:58:22,260
the north and south ... to avoid United ... the

2874
02:58:22,260 --> 02:58:26,700
fifty breaches ... maintain access to sunlight all those aspects

2875
02:58:26,700 --> 02:58:30,790
... a key design intents of the design manual that

2876
02:58:30,900 --> 02:58:34,940
... ... the objective is to benefit both the existing

2877
02:58:34,940 --> 02:58:38,700
residents and future residents

2878
02:58:38,700 --> 02:58:41,220
so it's not is it is this the simple answer

2879
02:58:41,220 --> 02:58:43,690
to question is that it's to benefit both the existing

2880
02:58:43,690 --> 02:58:49,230
residents this thing residents of the surrounding neighborhood plus future

2881
02:58:49,230 --> 02:58:53,310
residents of this exactly thank

2882
02:58:53,310 --> 02:58:56,240
thank you I've got councillor Isitt and then myself cancer

2883
02:58:56,240 --> 02:58:59,850
as a go ahead but my apologies if my question

2884
02:58:59,990 --> 02:59:02,060
to put kids with some other council members of the

2885
02:59:02,060 --> 02:59:05,870
house but just trying to understand how the height variance

2886
02:59:05,900 --> 02:59:09,760
is considered ... supportable by staff given the magnitude of

2887
02:59:09,760 --> 02:59:13,460
the variance

2888
02:59:13,460 --> 02:59:16,160
through the mayor of the staff are proposing as part

2889
02:59:16,160 --> 02:59:19,420
of the recommendation is to is to limit the heights

2890
02:59:19,450 --> 02:59:24,640
and the asset to ... include the proposed heights in

2891
02:59:24,640 --> 02:59:27,760
the official community plan amendment but to no and better

2892
02:59:27,760 --> 02:59:31,140
use the proposed ties such two stories into the new

2893
02:59:31,140 --> 02:59:34,530
sign so any future develop this the concurrent developments as

2894
02:59:34,530 --> 02:59:36,890
part of phase one and any future development should they

2895
02:59:36,890 --> 02:59:40,620
come forward with the development phase two and three ...

2896
02:59:40,620 --> 02:59:43,530
would be subject to a variance ... so it would

2897
02:59:43,530 --> 02:59:47,810
be it would be reviewed ... if council chooses to

2898
02:59:47,810 --> 02:59:50,340
opt for the staff recommendation it would be reviewed by

2899
02:59:50,340 --> 02:59:54,870
council and to an opportunity for comments the rationale fed

2900
02:59:54,900 --> 02:59:59,920
the increase and that highlights ... ... significantly above the

2901
02:59:59,920 --> 03:00:04,190
policy is is the trade off I mentioned earlier ...

2902
03:00:04,190 --> 03:00:07,990
in terms of increased building separation distances between the towers

2903
03:00:08,510 --> 03:00:13,030
the lower podiums ... the central plaza the applicant has

2904
03:00:13,030 --> 03:00:16,160
proposed a central plaza this night I double what the

2905
03:00:16,160 --> 03:00:20,760
policy supports I or what to put policy recommends ...

2906
03:00:20,910 --> 03:00:23,770
all these are factors that staff you know you play

2907
03:00:23,770 --> 03:00:29,070
into the whole ... the whole package when we review

2908
03:00:29,070 --> 03:00:34,510
an application ... and ultimately you know you'd be the

2909
03:00:34,510 --> 03:00:39,110
impacts on on the public realm ... photo the buildings

2910
03:00:39,400 --> 03:00:43,260
alas ... through a small through shows a podium from

2911
03:00:43,260 --> 03:00:46,750
a street Kay street scape perspective many of us were

2912
03:00:46,780 --> 03:00:50,910
in our experience our cities ... as a pedestrian we

2913
03:00:50,910 --> 03:00:52,940
walk down the streets we look at how tall buildings

2914
03:00:52,940 --> 03:00:55,550
are ... we see you know just you know which

2915
03:00:55,770 --> 03:00:57,760
state that gives us a sense of how we feel

2916
03:00:57,760 --> 03:01:02,170
in the space ... the impacts on the height of

2917
03:01:02,170 --> 03:01:06,090
thirty two storeys arguably a greatest when fusion view from

2918
03:01:06,090 --> 03:01:09,440
the city skyline said they the impacts from the toilet

2919
03:01:09,440 --> 03:01:12,060
buildings in that respect to really that's why

2920
03:01:12,060 --> 03:01:15,010
we look at the future did you analysis ... and

2921
03:01:15,010 --> 03:01:17,750
how how the city can be seen ... from the

2922
03:01:17,750 --> 03:01:23,060
more distant views ... say from staff stocks perspective ...

2923
03:01:23,090 --> 03:01:27,600
in terms of prioritizing the public ... the public interest

2924
03:01:27,920 --> 03:01:30,950
... you know we've been ready faxing hard on on

2925
03:01:30,950 --> 03:01:34,100
getting those paid Ms down to an acceptable and supportable

2926
03:01:34,100 --> 03:01:36,970
level on the impact of that is that the applicant

2927
03:01:37,000 --> 03:01:39,400
increase the height of the towers and that was one

2928
03:01:39,400 --> 03:01:41,500
thing you know that happen through the stuff and he

2929
03:01:42,240 --> 03:01:44,240
slapped that was what we really focused on office on

2930
03:01:44,240 --> 03:01:47,500
and and and the private proposal as it's presented today

2931
03:01:48,170 --> 03:01:51,190
thank you if the towers were kept to their same

2932
03:01:51,220 --> 03:01:54,790
... with ...

2933
03:01:54,790 --> 03:01:58,500
it and the the distal density wasn't approved to be

2934
03:01:58,500 --> 03:02:00,160
on the

2935
03:02:00,160 --> 03:02:03,530
are the zoning or the OCP would ... can you

2936
03:02:03,530 --> 03:02:06,120
tell us how approximately how many stories the building would

2937
03:02:06,120 --> 03:02:08,520
be

2938
03:02:08,520 --> 03:02:12,670
because the assumption that a rushed a little shorter building

2939
03:02:12,670 --> 03:02:15,890
would be wider is only piece that's assuming that council

2940
03:02:15,890 --> 03:02:18,170
is prepared to grant the density but let's see if

2941
03:02:18,170 --> 03:02:21,270
the density of council wasn't prepared to go beyond the

2942
03:02:21,270 --> 03:02:24,080
OCP in terms of density can you give a sense

2943
03:02:24,080 --> 03:02:27,520
of approximately how many stories the towers would be if

2944
03:02:27,520 --> 03:02:32,460
we if we wanted to retain slender towers

2945
03:02:32,460 --> 03:02:36,010
and that's complicated calculation it is a complicated calculation approach

2946
03:02:36,010 --> 03:02:37,410
and have all the top of my head but I

2947
03:02:37,410 --> 03:02:40,660
I would pretty outset can answer for you later in

2948
03:02:40,660 --> 03:02:44,820
the meeting I guess that's the point five density if

2949
03:02:44,820 --> 03:02:48,230
that was in the bill how many stories essentially

2950
03:02:48,230 --> 03:02:52,000
... based on the floor plate of each tower of

2951
03:02:52,300 --> 03:02:55,460
the floor area of each story in the tower

2952
03:02:55,460 --> 03:02:58,150
... how many stories with that point five of density

2953
03:02:58,150 --> 03:03:00,810
translate into I guess to be my question we get

2954
03:03:00,810 --> 03:03:02,770
that in a bit I will look at it for

2955
03:03:02,770 --> 03:03:06,630
you yeah thank you ... I guess the other question

2956
03:03:06,630 --> 03:03:08,460
is ...

2957
03:03:08,460 --> 03:03:11,640
that seems like the policy that council generally landed on

2958
03:03:11,640 --> 03:03:15,870
the OCP adopted was approximately twenty stories in some parts

2959
03:03:15,870 --> 03:03:18,140
of the downtown council was prepared to go a bit

2960
03:03:18,140 --> 03:03:21,320
higher ... I was in the minority in believing that

2961
03:03:21,440 --> 03:03:24,870
that sort of benchmark was too high but a majority

2962
03:03:24,870 --> 03:03:28,750
supported that ... but just wondering is there a risk

2963
03:03:28,750 --> 03:03:32,140
of essentially a slippery slope for

2964
03:03:32,140 --> 03:03:35,300
essentially when we start to talk about heights that are

2965
03:03:35,300 --> 03:03:38,650
fifty percent more than the OCP maximum in terms of

2966
03:03:38,650 --> 03:03:42,920
the number of stories does that policy then become meaningless

2967
03:03:42,920 --> 03:03:46,540
and is it really become either a guessing game or

2968
03:03:46,540 --> 03:03:47,750
just a

2969
03:03:47,750 --> 03:03:51,100
at issue of just political power and political struggle for

2970
03:03:51,100 --> 03:03:55,680
every applicant to maximize their return in is essentially every

2971
03:03:56,300 --> 03:03:59,400
should be almost treat every parcel is the fits the

2972
03:03:59,400 --> 03:04:03,670
tabula rasa with no regulations or no policy to guide

2973
03:04:03,670 --> 03:04:06,580
it really becomes just a guessing game of what if

2974
03:04:06,580 --> 03:04:09,650
council may or may not be prepared to accept on

2975
03:04:09,650 --> 03:04:12,290
any given parcel it does seem that we've sort of

2976
03:04:12,290 --> 03:04:13,910
our opening

2977
03:04:13,910 --> 03:04:17,110
that the discussion to that bike

2978
03:04:17,110 --> 03:04:21,390
the essential variance from 20 to 32 stories

2979
03:04:21,390 --> 03:04:23,440
through the mayor

2980
03:04:23,440 --> 03:04:27,890
this doesn't set a precedent council a

2981
03:04:27,890 --> 03:04:32,300
staff and council review every application on their own and

2982
03:04:32,300 --> 03:04:36,910
with this application of certainly it was literally and figuratively

2983
03:04:36,910 --> 03:04:40,650
looked at from every possible angle the staff took this

2984
03:04:40,650 --> 03:04:44,210
increase in height very seriously and that was why there

2985
03:04:44,210 --> 03:04:46,480
was just partially white took so long but the number

2986
03:04:46,480 --> 03:04:49,150
of studies were required the developer to do to look

2987
03:04:49,150 --> 03:04:52,040
at the buildings from different vantage points from across the

2988
03:04:52,040 --> 03:04:55,120
harbor from various points from the ground from up how

2989
03:04:55,120 --> 03:04:59,670
would be viewed to understand the the incremental difference between

2990
03:05:00,110 --> 03:05:03,030
podiums of this high that height wide building still in

2991
03:05:03,030 --> 03:05:07,160
buildings and so from an urban design perspective we finally

2992
03:05:07,160 --> 03:05:09,770
landed on yeah this is a big departure from the

2993
03:05:09,770 --> 03:05:13,630
policy but the advantages in terms of less impact on

2994
03:05:13,630 --> 03:05:16,690
the public realm is experienced when you're on the ground

2995
03:05:17,030 --> 03:05:20,710
was this was seen to be advantageous particular lead in

2996
03:05:20,710 --> 03:05:23,770
relation to it is rental housing and what is needed

2997
03:05:23,770 --> 03:05:26,890
to make a rental housing project work added in with

2998
03:05:26,960 --> 03:05:30,680
the advantages of gaining this large public plaza which is

2999
03:05:30,680 --> 03:05:33,100
needed in this neighborhood as well as some of the

3000
03:05:33,100 --> 03:05:36,130
other things that are on offer

3001
03:05:36,130 --> 03:05:37,800
thank you

3002
03:05:37,800 --> 03:05:40,890
thank you ... I am going to move the recommendation

3003
03:05:40,890 --> 03:05:42,700
if there's a seconder I do have some questions and

3004
03:05:42,700 --> 03:05:44,670
then some comments

3005
03:05:44,670 --> 03:05:48,650
is there anyone who will second the recommendation

3006
03:05:48,650 --> 03:05:53,060
thank you seconded by councillor alto ... this actually also

3007
03:05:53,060 --> 03:05:56,150
with my questions and then ... comments so ... the

3008
03:05:56,150 --> 03:05:59,150
the public space I think is a good proposal it's

3009
03:05:59,150 --> 03:06:02,010
very welcome ... it's nice to read and this is

3010
03:06:02,010 --> 03:06:05,170
my understanding that it's not all ... concrete like to

3011
03:06:05,170 --> 03:06:08,000
it there's a size comparison was to bastion square but

3012
03:06:08,000 --> 03:06:11,440
bastion square is very concrete but ... how do we

3013
03:06:11,440 --> 03:06:14,300
ensure that the public space really read size and feels

3014
03:06:14,300 --> 03:06:17,250
like public space like a space to stop and gather

3015
03:06:17,250 --> 03:06:19,750
a space for the public is welcome you know that

3016
03:06:19,750 --> 03:06:23,390
they're particularly the grassy area for for kids our picnics

3017
03:06:23,690 --> 03:06:26,610
that it that it feels public not just that the

3018
03:06:26,610 --> 03:06:30,120
public can pass through or you know tentatively set on

3019
03:06:30,120 --> 03:06:31,650
the edge of it how do we how do we

3020
03:06:31,650 --> 03:06:33,910
make sure that that's

3021
03:06:33,910 --> 03:06:36,560
because because this is the largest new public space if

3022
03:06:36,560 --> 03:06:38,590
this goes ahead that we will see in the downtown

3023
03:06:39,060 --> 03:06:42,080
in decades and so how do we make it really

3024
03:06:42,080 --> 03:06:45,140
public I guess that's my key question

3025
03:06:45,140 --> 03:06:49,040
thanks for the question ... yes ultimately the the legal

3026
03:06:49,040 --> 03:06:51,830
mechanism through that is ... will be requesting statue right

3027
03:06:51,830 --> 03:06:55,800
away ... so all they the proposal the price plaza

3028
03:06:55,800 --> 03:07:00,110
will be privately owned and privately maintained ... will be

3029
03:07:00,110 --> 03:07:03,370
securing public access A. Fritsche said the exact details of

3030
03:07:03,370 --> 03:07:05,850
how that agreement is written a yet to be determined

3031
03:07:06,200 --> 03:07:09,400
... that owes me to lead as the legal mechanism

3032
03:07:09,450 --> 03:07:13,400
... for insuring that that people have the right to

3033
03:07:13,400 --> 03:07:15,710
walk to okay right to use it as a you

3034
03:07:15,710 --> 03:07:18,100
know ... as we would expect to public space to

3035
03:07:18,100 --> 03:07:20,360
be and then there's also the second part of that

3036
03:07:20,360 --> 03:07:23,190
is the design of the space ... making sure that

3037
03:07:23,220 --> 03:07:27,430
and three subsequent DP's when the later phases ... if

3038
03:07:27,430 --> 03:07:30,250
let's face come forward ... that those are designed in

3039
03:07:30,250 --> 03:07:34,090
such a way that ... they they welcome people that

3040
03:07:34,090 --> 03:07:36,480
there's no you know there's a clear distinction between public

3041
03:07:36,480 --> 03:07:41,220
and private space and how those ... areas a landscaped

3042
03:07:41,250 --> 03:07:44,390
... what was seating areas like all those aspects will

3043
03:07:44,660 --> 03:07:48,340
be am fully reviewed and and ... detailed and the

3044
03:07:48,340 --> 03:07:51,280
subsequent development phases

3045
03:07:51,280 --> 03:07:53,590
thank you very much ... I'll make some comments I

3046
03:07:53,590 --> 03:07:56,520
think this is probably the most difficult land use decision

3047
03:07:56,520 --> 03:08:00,960
that has faced me personally ... ... in the almost

3048
03:08:00,960 --> 03:08:04,410
decade that I've sat at this table ... because it's

3049
03:08:04,440 --> 03:08:06,510
you know and we're asked to do this often but

3050
03:08:06,510 --> 03:08:09,030
not quite to this extent were asked to consider a

3051
03:08:09,030 --> 03:08:13,930
whole bunch of different approaches and different ... considerations when

3052
03:08:13,930 --> 03:08:17,180
we're looking at a land use proposal and as I

3053
03:08:17,180 --> 03:08:19,610
was reviewing this I scribbled in my notes something that

3054
03:08:19,610 --> 03:08:22,570
counselor Loveday said probably a couple of years ago ...

3055
03:08:22,570 --> 03:08:25,530
which is the OCP is not just a density document

3056
03:08:25,870 --> 03:08:28,590
and I think that's really what's being put in front

3057
03:08:28,590 --> 03:08:33,810
of us today ... is if we want all of

3058
03:08:33,810 --> 03:08:35,960
the things that we need for the future of our

3059
03:08:35,960 --> 03:08:38,340
city and and for me the biggest concern is is

3060
03:08:38,340 --> 03:08:42,070
housing in particular rental housing ... that we need to

3061
03:08:42,070 --> 03:08:45,940
push the limits of density and height ... or we're

3062
03:08:45,940 --> 03:08:48,430
not going to have the kind of city that that

3063
03:08:48,430 --> 03:08:52,170
we need which is ... inclusive and which is sustainable

3064
03:08:52,580 --> 03:08:54,130
... now I don't pretend that these are gonna be

3065
03:08:54,130 --> 03:08:56,940
affordable units no one does that's not the point ...

3066
03:08:56,940 --> 03:09:00,070
but what we saw in the housing futures report that

3067
03:09:00,070 --> 03:09:01,870
staff give us a couple of weeks ago is that

3068
03:09:01,870 --> 03:09:05,260
right now we're between forty five and sixty three hundred

3069
03:09:05,260 --> 03:09:07,960
units short just for the people who currently live here

3070
03:09:08,360 --> 03:09:10,630
... and there is a really interesting article in the

3071
03:09:10,630 --> 03:09:12,670
times colonist I guess a couple days ago that show

3072
03:09:12,670 --> 03:09:14,580
that even people who have like they can pay three

3073
03:09:14,580 --> 03:09:18,740
thousand dollars for rent can't find anywhere and so that

3074
03:09:18,770 --> 03:09:21,160
is weighing heavily on me and I and I I

3075
03:09:21,160 --> 03:09:24,130
think it it should weigh heavily on all of us

3076
03:09:24,600 --> 03:09:26,700
... and then the second piece again going back to

3077
03:09:26,700 --> 03:09:30,260
that housing future supply reports that that staff produced and

3078
03:09:30,260 --> 03:09:32,370
I do think that report was excellent that even and

3079
03:09:32,370 --> 03:09:35,320
this is important to this consideration even within the existing

3080
03:09:35,320 --> 03:09:38,080
O. C. P. if we build it out with that

3081
03:09:38,080 --> 03:09:41,830
the guidelines that are available ... to to twenty forty

3082
03:09:41,830 --> 03:09:44,200
one we're still twenty to thirty percent short of the

3083
03:09:44,200 --> 03:09:46,350
housing that we need for it not this is now

3084
03:09:46,350 --> 03:09:50,350
for future so we're from between forty five and sixty

3085
03:09:50,350 --> 03:09:50,740
three how

3086
03:09:50,740 --> 03:09:54,410
read units short now ... ends were twenty to thirty

3087
03:09:54,410 --> 03:09:56,490
percent under what we need for the future and I

3088
03:09:56,490 --> 03:10:01,720
just can't in good conscience turn back ... housing ...

3089
03:10:01,720 --> 03:10:04,790
particularly rental housing and I know that there this is

3090
03:10:04,790 --> 03:10:06,210
not gonna be unanimous but I hope it gets at

3091
03:10:06,210 --> 03:10:07,900
least five votes to move forward and I hope that

3092
03:10:07,900 --> 03:10:10,450
people who have conditions that they placed them on the

3093
03:10:10,450 --> 03:10:13,990
going forward there's already almost a whole alphabet of of

3094
03:10:13,990 --> 03:10:15,870
... and conditions that we need to get through to

3095
03:10:15,870 --> 03:10:19,090
get to public hearing anyway ... but but I I

3096
03:10:19,090 --> 03:10:22,570
do hope that we can kind of look at not

3097
03:10:22,570 --> 03:10:25,370
just do we like height or do we like density

3098
03:10:25,700 --> 03:10:27,750
... but what is it that our city needs to

3099
03:10:27,750 --> 03:10:31,570
be inclusive and sustainable for the future ... a couple

3100
03:10:31,570 --> 03:10:36,140
more things before cede the floor the the the conference

3101
03:10:36,140 --> 03:10:38,020
board of Canada put out a report of a few

3102
03:10:38,020 --> 03:10:40,470
years ago now ... about what it would take to

3103
03:10:40,470 --> 03:10:42,560
meet Canada's climate goals and I think it was a

3104
03:10:42,560 --> 03:10:44,890
twenty eighteen report how do we get to kind of

3105
03:10:44,890 --> 03:10:48,520
net zero by twenty fifty and what the report showed

3106
03:10:48,520 --> 03:10:51,010
in this is what's facing us today is that Canadians

3107
03:10:51,010 --> 03:10:56,440
generally aren't ready for or custom to the level of

3108
03:10:56,440 --> 03:10:58,910
density that's going to be needed in urban centres to

3109
03:10:58,910 --> 03:11:02,250
meet our climate goals and if we concentrate you know

3110
03:11:02,250 --> 03:11:04,480
fifteen hundred units a let's call it four thousand to

3111
03:11:04,480 --> 03:11:08,190
five thousand people ... in this area it means that

3112
03:11:08,190 --> 03:11:10,580
they can take their kids to the child care that's

3113
03:11:10,580 --> 03:11:12,550
in the building that they can walk to the grocery

3114
03:11:12,550 --> 03:11:15,200
store that they can that they essentially they can live

3115
03:11:15,200 --> 03:11:18,190
car light or car free and and forty percent of

3116
03:11:18,190 --> 03:11:21,270
our missions right now is in transportation so it's it

3117
03:11:21,270 --> 03:11:26,320
for me it's really climate and inclusivity and affordability and

3118
03:11:26,320 --> 03:11:28,470
just having the housing we need to ... and I

3119
03:11:28,470 --> 03:11:31,140
know these are affordable units but just like a person

3120
03:11:31,140 --> 03:11:33,620
who can't has makes three thousand Bucks can't even afford

3121
03:11:33,620 --> 03:11:35,860
to find anywhere right now because we are no places

3122
03:11:35,860 --> 03:11:38,890
so ... I hope that that when we're looking at

3123
03:11:38,890 --> 03:11:40,610
this today we won't just look at do we like

3124
03:11:40,610 --> 03:11:43,690
tall towers are not that will that will think about

3125
03:11:43,690 --> 03:11:46,450
everything that this a proposal offers for the future of

3126
03:11:46,450 --> 03:11:48,510
our city that's beyond just that the height in the

3127
03:11:48,510 --> 03:11:50,740
density so leave it at that I

3128
03:11:50,740 --> 03:11:53,280
really do look forward to the discussion accounts are also

3129
03:11:53,280 --> 03:11:54,950
is next as the seconder and then I'll come to

3130
03:11:54,950 --> 03:11:57,600
councillor Thornton Joe and councillor Potts

3131
03:11:57,600 --> 03:12:00,150
thanks very helps and ... I hadn't had a chance

3132
03:12:00,150 --> 03:12:03,290
to and ask questions previously so it certainly wanted to

3133
03:12:03,290 --> 03:12:05,670
make sure that there is an opportunity for further discussion

3134
03:12:06,060 --> 03:12:08,270
so I will start just by asking a few questions

3135
03:12:08,300 --> 03:12:14,230
them somewhere just clarification somewhere different ... what guarantee do

3136
03:12:14,230 --> 03:12:16,950
we have that there will be an equivalent or greater

3137
03:12:16,950 --> 03:12:20,760
number of affordable units in the next phase I understand

3138
03:12:20,760 --> 03:12:22,840
that we have the understanding that this twenty three out

3139
03:12:22,840 --> 03:12:25,770
of five hundred and tenants first face do we have

3140
03:12:25,770 --> 03:12:29,420
any such agreement

3141
03:12:29,420 --> 03:12:33,360
the twenty three units of affordable housing is the applicant's

3142
03:12:33,360 --> 03:12:38,110
proposal for both faces photos yeah for both phases yes

3143
03:12:38,140 --> 03:12:40,230
so I'm sorry I'm a bit confused earlier I thought

3144
03:12:40,230 --> 03:12:43,530
I heard a question that spoke to twenty three out

3145
03:12:43,530 --> 03:12:46,010
of five hundred and ten

3146
03:12:46,010 --> 03:12:48,360
that is correct it is it it they are proposed

3147
03:12:48,360 --> 03:12:51,620
to be delivered in the first phase ... but they

3148
03:12:51,620 --> 03:12:54,800
don't intend to include any affordable housing is part of

3149
03:12:54,800 --> 03:12:57,690
the later phases okay I'm glad I asked that question

3150
03:12:57,880 --> 03:13:00,580
was what I understood thanks very much for that ...

3151
03:13:01,300 --> 03:13:03,830
and ... just harkening back to the discussion about the

3152
03:13:03,830 --> 03:13:07,030
plaza ... which seems to be a sort of one

3153
03:13:07,030 --> 03:13:11,040
of the yep better amenities being proposed am I correct

3154
03:13:11,040 --> 03:13:12,980
in believing I heard you say this statutory right of

3155
03:13:12,980 --> 03:13:15,330
ways for the entire process so it's not just a

3156
03:13:15,620 --> 03:13:17,850
through piece of a plus it's for every part of

3157
03:13:17,850 --> 03:13:20,990
the plazas ... statutorily required to be open to the

3158
03:13:20,990 --> 03:13:25,060
public exactly the we through the legal agreements when we

3159
03:13:25,120 --> 03:13:28,020
if we get that ... phase will determine the actual

3160
03:13:28,020 --> 03:13:31,190
delineation of the ... where that such too much of

3161
03:13:31,190 --> 03:13:36,190
where plies it may exclude some commercial seating areas on

3162
03:13:36,190 --> 03:13:39,810
the fringes ... to avoid you know that conflict between

3163
03:13:39,810 --> 03:13:43,290
public and private but the exam ... the intent is

3164
03:13:43,290 --> 03:13:45,560
that the most the Max amount of the plaza will

3165
03:13:45,560 --> 03:13:48,480
be dedicated to start your trip ways and not just

3166
03:13:49,230 --> 03:13:51,110
to me to strip running down the middle the whole

3167
03:13:51,110 --> 03:13:54,050
plaza just a walkway yeah exactly okay okay thanks for

3168
03:13:54,050 --> 03:13:56,590
that I'm the one of the things it's in the

3169
03:13:56,590 --> 03:13:59,970
many conditions ... is a new wind study and what

3170
03:13:59,970 --> 03:14:02,130
do you want that to show what do you expect

3171
03:14:02,130 --> 03:14:03,990
that to show

3172
03:14:03,990 --> 03:14:06,410
so the reason we've asked for a ... an updated

3173
03:14:06,410 --> 03:14:10,190
Wednesday ... the and I don't I just this question

3174
03:14:10,190 --> 03:14:13,510
because I can talk about everything the presentation site ...

3175
03:14:13,690 --> 03:14:16,030
that there was a win city that was prepared ...

3176
03:14:16,030 --> 03:14:19,290
but it was ... it was modeled on and adding

3177
03:14:19,290 --> 03:14:22,260
a design concept when the stories were a at the

3178
03:14:22,260 --> 03:14:25,560
height sweat was slightly lower ... the podiums are slightly

3179
03:14:25,560 --> 03:14:29,800
tola ... so we just want to ... sure it

3180
03:14:29,800 --> 03:14:33,300
says that through the extra height that has been ...

3181
03:14:33,900 --> 03:14:38,020
... proposed ... to the stuff review process that doesn't

3182
03:14:38,020 --> 03:14:42,560
have any further ... negatives ... impacts on the public

3183
03:14:42,560 --> 03:14:46,820
room ... sorry the applicant has advised us that you

3184
03:14:46,820 --> 03:14:49,310
know that I did if you ... so in that

3185
03:14:49,340 --> 03:14:51,860
in the information to put in a win study that

3186
03:14:51,860 --> 03:14:53,610
it was actually a three D. model of the actual

3187
03:14:53,610 --> 03:14:57,850
proposal ... they have spoken to the wind consultants and

3188
03:14:58,210 --> 03:15:00,860
... they've indicated that the up these updates are relatively

3189
03:15:00,860 --> 03:15:03,180
straightforward and they don't need to remodel the whole thing

3190
03:15:03,180 --> 03:15:07,230
is ... is that the benefits of technology ... ...

3191
03:15:07,260 --> 03:15:10,600
they will be at each city updated ... and provided

3192
03:15:10,600 --> 03:15:14,190
to us in the future report for council's consideration great

3193
03:15:14,190 --> 03:15:17,150
thanks for that in your experience having obviously looked at

3194
03:15:17,150 --> 03:15:20,680
similar proposals do you expect a significant difference in the

3195
03:15:20,680 --> 03:15:22,150
outcome

3196
03:15:22,150 --> 03:15:25,340
for the the difference between when the depression when city

3197
03:15:25,340 --> 03:15:28,310
was created a model that is based on we don't

3198
03:15:28,310 --> 03:15:33,250
anticipate any changes it's more just to ... just being

3199
03:15:33,250 --> 03:15:36,990
absolutely certain that it doesn't have any impacts thanks for

3200
03:15:36,990 --> 03:15:41,570
that ... I was a little unclear about the whole

3201
03:15:41,620 --> 03:15:44,480
eighty P. reports and minutes it's a truck so if

3202
03:15:44,480 --> 03:15:48,390
I am just to clarify for my own understanding so

3203
03:15:48,390 --> 03:15:53,400
essentially eighty peas spent its consideration on the pros and

3204
03:15:53,400 --> 03:15:57,670
cons of the design manual

3205
03:15:57,670 --> 03:16:01,110
and less so on the actual applications would that be

3206
03:16:01,110 --> 03:16:02,360
fair

3207
03:16:02,360 --> 03:16:04,250
it was actually the ask through the mayor is actually

3208
03:16:04,250 --> 03:16:07,300
opposite they reviewed the development for the first phase of

3209
03:16:07,300 --> 03:16:10,900
the detailed design but they did not refuse the design

3210
03:16:10,900 --> 03:16:14,290
manual okay and so this will not go back to

3211
03:16:14,290 --> 03:16:16,380
eighty P. for any reason it's done that's what the

3212
03:16:16,380 --> 03:16:17,450
case

3213
03:16:17,450 --> 03:16:19,870
staff are not recommending that it goes back to try

3214
03:16:19,870 --> 03:16:23,030
to design panel but see that decision if council which

3215
03:16:23,030 --> 03:16:24,760
is that's great

3216
03:16:24,760 --> 03:16:29,340
what happens is

3217
03:16:29,340 --> 03:16:31,540
I try to ask this question but

3218
03:16:31,540 --> 03:16:34,420
since the plaza is in the last phase and I

3219
03:16:34,420 --> 03:16:36,930
think you indicated it could be some years before that's

3220
03:16:36,930 --> 03:16:41,280
actually concluded ... I realize it is a legal agreement

3221
03:16:41,710 --> 03:16:45,020
that would be in place if this goes forward but

3222
03:16:45,020 --> 03:16:48,990
what happens if five years from now circumstances indicate that

3223
03:16:48,990 --> 03:16:52,930
the plaza has to be materially different what what recourse

3224
03:16:52,930 --> 03:16:56,180
with the city has

3225
03:16:56,180 --> 03:16:58,570
I think you know with the ... it's been a

3226
03:16:58,710 --> 03:17:00,850
big discussion amongst the planning stuff is you know how

3227
03:17:00,850 --> 03:17:05,730
we secure a high quality plaza ... at this stage

3228
03:17:05,730 --> 03:17:07,700
when we don't really know what the details about Tom

3229
03:17:08,180 --> 03:17:10,450
and I think you know there will be some careful

3230
03:17:10,450 --> 03:17:14,120
word smithing of of the the terms of that lease

3231
03:17:14,120 --> 03:17:18,160
agreement to make sure that eight eight does meet a

3232
03:17:18,160 --> 03:17:23,710
certain standard ... but it also allows flexibility for you

3233
03:17:23,710 --> 03:17:27,290
know you for example technology changes new materials come out

3234
03:17:27,290 --> 03:17:30,350
something you know you may ... be developed that we're

3235
03:17:30,350 --> 03:17:33,280
not aware of ... and this one's being corporation the

3236
03:17:33,280 --> 03:17:36,240
plaza we need to be able to catch the drafting

3237
03:17:36,240 --> 03:17:38,620
these agreements we need to make sure there's enough flexibility

3238
03:17:39,180 --> 03:17:42,410
that to account for those changes over time and that

3239
03:17:42,410 --> 03:17:45,310
may happen ... but ultimately at the end of the

3240
03:17:45,310 --> 03:17:48,310
day if something comes forward and like to face is

3241
03:17:48,310 --> 03:17:50,500
that doesn't meet the terms of the lease agreement it

3242
03:17:50,500 --> 03:17:53,450
would need to come back to council for reconsideration right

3243
03:17:53,450 --> 03:17:56,330
so if for some reason years from now the design

3244
03:17:56,330 --> 03:17:59,310
had to change for whatever reason and that had an

3245
03:17:59,310 --> 03:18:03,590
impact on the design of the plaza staff would be

3246
03:18:03,590 --> 03:18:06,990
in a position to review that are to oversee that

3247
03:18:06,990 --> 03:18:09,930
I guess and it was materially different it would come

3248
03:18:09,930 --> 03:18:12,360
back to that council to say looks different now what

3249
03:18:12,360 --> 03:18:15,810
do you think how would that affect the whole it

3250
03:18:15,840 --> 03:18:18,470
lets if this is approved today or over this goes

3251
03:18:18,470 --> 03:18:20,390
on until I guess sounds like you'll be next year

3252
03:18:20,390 --> 03:18:22,430
or the year after before family gets to public hearing

3253
03:18:22,430 --> 03:18:23,680
but

3254
03:18:23,680 --> 03:18:27,700
at some point how how does it

3255
03:18:27,700 --> 03:18:30,330
windows staff get a chance to look at that no

3256
03:18:30,330 --> 03:18:33,270
through four years down the road

3257
03:18:33,270 --> 03:18:34,920
it would be through a developer have it when the

3258
03:18:34,920 --> 03:18:37,980
development comes in ... for the later phases that's when

3259
03:18:37,980 --> 03:18:41,520
the the design of the plaza and the surrounding built

3260
03:18:41,520 --> 03:18:44,760
form will be locked down right okay great and the

3261
03:18:44,760 --> 03:18:47,840
plaza would have to be consistent with the design guidelines

3262
03:18:47,840 --> 03:18:50,870
what type which talk about the high quality durable materials

3263
03:18:50,870 --> 03:18:54,070
and if you council's opinion it wasn't then council would

3264
03:18:54,070 --> 03:18:58,200
also have the ability to send it back right okay

3265
03:18:58,240 --> 03:19:01,750
great thanks for that that's very reassuring

3266
03:19:01,750 --> 03:19:03,780


3267
03:19:03,780 --> 03:19:05,720
I think the question is is gonna ask about how

3268
03:19:05,720 --> 03:19:08,250
many extra stories but I think that's the same as

3269
03:19:08,250 --> 03:19:11,100
councillor Isitt's question which you're going to look into I

3270
03:19:11,100 --> 03:19:14,300
think ... and based on some of the questions of

3271
03:19:14,300 --> 03:19:16,770
the comments I've heard from my colleagues

3272
03:19:16,770 --> 03:19:19,570
what would be the effect you think of asking the

3273
03:19:19,570 --> 03:19:22,960
applicant to separate the two properties

3274
03:19:22,960 --> 03:19:27,850
to have essentially to individual applications this earlier questions about

3275
03:19:27,850 --> 03:19:32,040
why it's coming together as one from glamour at

3276
03:19:32,040 --> 03:19:35,440
I have in theory they could separate it and we

3277
03:19:35,440 --> 03:19:38,690
could be dealing with two applications in front of you

3278
03:19:38,690 --> 03:19:40,200
today

3279
03:19:40,200 --> 03:19:43,640
and in all likelihood we would have chosen to give

3280
03:19:43,640 --> 03:19:46,740
you one presentation so that you could understand how the

3281
03:19:46,740 --> 03:19:50,420
proposal works together ...

3282
03:19:50,420 --> 03:19:53,220
so from a process or from your perspective the staff

3283
03:19:53,220 --> 03:19:56,560
review perspective wouldn't really have made any difference no correct

3284
03:19:56,660 --> 03:20:00,000
okay thanks for that and ... my last

3285
03:20:00,000 --> 03:20:02,130
students very very help for taking so long but I

3286
03:20:02,130 --> 03:20:04,450
I said turning down a dish but you don't have

3287
03:20:04,450 --> 03:20:06,370
to apologize the motion is now on the floors of

3288
03:20:06,370 --> 03:20:08,510
questions and comments are still in order and if there

3289
03:20:08,550 --> 03:20:10,580
will be lots of time for everyone to say everything

3290
03:20:10,580 --> 03:20:12,970
that needs to be set and asks for much so

3291
03:20:12,970 --> 03:20:14,740
just ...

3292
03:20:14,740 --> 03:20:17,030
I guess I just have to ask questions and was

3293
03:20:17,030 --> 03:20:21,320
there ever any conversation with the applicant about including more

3294
03:20:21,840 --> 03:20:25,600
affordable units and the twenty three

3295
03:20:25,600 --> 03:20:28,870
there was silence conversations about ... the minutes he's being

3296
03:20:28,870 --> 03:20:33,680
proposed and ultimately the applicant has chosen to put ...

3297
03:20:34,110 --> 03:20:36,720
twenty better phrase all the eggs in that basket of

3298
03:20:36,720 --> 03:20:40,310
being the plaza and putting ... thought is that that

3299
03:20:40,970 --> 03:20:42,810
...

3300
03:20:42,810 --> 03:20:45,910
best selling feature for the application of the biggest ...

3301
03:20:46,070 --> 03:20:48,740
community meeting as part of the proposal do you have

3302
03:20:48,740 --> 03:20:51,100
any sense of whether there be an opportunity to consider

3303
03:20:51,100 --> 03:20:53,610
a greater number of affordable units

3304
03:20:53,610 --> 03:20:57,610
I guess the question

3305
03:20:57,610 --> 03:21:01,260
it's also council which is okay and then the my

3306
03:21:01,260 --> 03:21:03,400
last question I think you've answered but just to clarify

3307
03:21:03,450 --> 03:21:05,310
... if you mentioned just at the end of your

3308
03:21:05,340 --> 03:21:09,090
other questions the ... the so called design manual that's

3309
03:21:09,090 --> 03:21:12,400
being as part of this application it only really has

3310
03:21:12,400 --> 03:21:15,710
any present value for this application right it doesn't it

3311
03:21:15,710 --> 03:21:19,640
doesn't have a precedent for any surrounding your future applications

3312
03:21:19,640 --> 03:21:22,720
no every application that comes forward to council is considered

3313
03:21:22,720 --> 03:21:26,470
under the existing policy so unless council changes the policy

3314
03:21:26,880 --> 03:21:30,060
and even if the policy did change heights are not

3315
03:21:30,060 --> 03:21:32,770
appropriate everywhere so even if council said okay gosh you

3316
03:21:32,770 --> 03:21:34,900
can go up to twenty five stories all around here

3317
03:21:35,300 --> 03:21:38,530
some sites just don't suit it it's not right for

3318
03:21:38,530 --> 03:21:42,000
the context thanks for that thanks for answering those questions

3319
03:21:42,030 --> 03:21:45,700
... I really appreciated actually the mayor's earlier comments because

3320
03:21:45,700 --> 03:21:48,680
I think it's really easy to look at this application

3321
03:21:49,050 --> 03:21:52,160
in its totality this this portion of it for me

3322
03:21:52,160 --> 03:21:56,610
has very few questions around height or density because I

3323
03:21:56,610 --> 03:21:59,470
actually think that it's it's quite suitable for the area

3324
03:21:59,930 --> 03:22:02,450
when you look at the totality of the application which

3325
03:22:02,450 --> 03:22:05,530
includes the next phase because phase two and then I

3326
03:22:05,530 --> 03:22:08,910
think there is certain certainly there's discomfort I think around

3327
03:22:08,910 --> 03:22:11,120
both the height and the density

3328
03:22:11,120 --> 03:22:13,540
because it's huge

3329
03:22:13,540 --> 03:22:16,870
getting around it it's huge and I think that that

3330
03:22:16,900 --> 03:22:21,150
is a really anomalous and unusual for Victoria and I

3331
03:22:21,200 --> 03:22:23,830
I am very cognizant of the discussions that are under

3332
03:22:23,830 --> 03:22:25,380
way but we don't want to look like the old

3333
03:22:25,380 --> 03:22:29,180
town ... and certainly there's aspects of the urban nature

3334
03:22:29,180 --> 03:22:32,440
of Vancouver and other cities which are not ones that

3335
03:22:32,440 --> 03:22:34,310
I think we want to reflect in the to raise

3336
03:22:34,830 --> 03:22:37,410
a city of a I know that we're only under

3337
03:22:37,410 --> 03:22:39,160
a hundred thousand but I think it is a city

3338
03:22:39,160 --> 03:22:42,510
of several hundred thousand of the area

3339
03:22:42,510 --> 03:22:45,720
... but I've I really do appreciate mayor helps comments

3340
03:22:45,720 --> 03:22:48,270
because I think that there is no doubt that there

3341
03:22:48,270 --> 03:22:51,230
is discomfort and unease in looking at this type of

3342
03:22:51,230 --> 03:22:54,270
density and these types of towers and at the same

3343
03:22:54,270 --> 03:22:59,000
time ... if we try to broaden the analysis of

3344
03:22:59,000 --> 03:23:03,270
this beyond height certainly ... and beyond the density to

3345
03:23:03,270 --> 03:23:05,790
a certain extent a little that I have less reservations

3346
03:23:05,790 --> 03:23:10,300
about that the concentration of residents in this area makes

3347
03:23:10,300 --> 03:23:14,430
sense and it's it's ...

3348
03:23:14,430 --> 03:23:17,690
it's a harder vision to embrace it really is because

3349
03:23:17,690 --> 03:23:20,200
I think ... I think I've commented a number of

3350
03:23:20,200 --> 03:23:23,550
times in the city of Victoria is now a city

3351
03:23:23,580 --> 03:23:26,150
and ... it's not any longer really large town it

3352
03:23:26,150 --> 03:23:28,970
is a relatively small city comparatively speaking but it's a

3353
03:23:28,970 --> 03:23:32,170
city and it for all of the other laudable reasons

3354
03:23:32,490 --> 03:23:37,310
to which we've made commitments around a concentration of residence

3355
03:23:37,310 --> 03:23:40,820
for the purposes of ensuring the future viability of the

3356
03:23:40,820 --> 03:23:43,810
environment and ... ... the contributions that we can make

3357
03:23:43,810 --> 03:23:47,330
to a mitigating climate change is as little as that

3358
03:23:47,330 --> 03:23:49,450
might be in the short term

3359
03:23:49,450 --> 03:23:52,660
and the ability to provide housing for a range of

3360
03:23:52,660 --> 03:23:56,350
individuals ... I think this is the type of thing

3361
03:23:56,350 --> 03:23:59,670
we're going to have to seriously consider in a certain

3362
03:23:59,670 --> 03:24:03,430
portion of our downtown ... and I think this is

3363
03:24:03,430 --> 03:24:06,800
part of the portion I do have some reservations about

3364
03:24:06,800 --> 03:24:09,850
this I would like to see more affordable units in

3365
03:24:09,850 --> 03:24:12,640
this you know I was a little bit ... com

3366
03:24:12,640 --> 03:24:15,010
to by doing the calculations of thinking of twenty three

3367
03:24:15,010 --> 03:24:16,610
of the five hundred and ten because that's four and

3368
03:24:16,610 --> 03:24:19,290
a half percent ... but I'm let's call him when

3369
03:24:19,290 --> 03:24:21,130
I think of twenty three out of I think it's

3370
03:24:21,130 --> 03:24:24,190
almost fifteen hundred units in total in the end ...

3371
03:24:24,190 --> 03:24:26,330
so that's

3372
03:24:26,330 --> 03:24:29,390
that's not great and and I would highly suggest the

3373
03:24:29,390 --> 03:24:32,260
applicant wanted to have a slightly easier road for this

3374
03:24:32,650 --> 03:24:36,040
past however goes that would be beneficial to have a

3375
03:24:36,040 --> 03:24:39,770
higher number of affordable units offered us so that's that's

3376
03:24:39,770 --> 03:24:42,780
still a big reservation for me ... but I think

3377
03:24:43,360 --> 03:24:45,640
...

3378
03:24:45,640 --> 03:24:48,370
my reservations about the plaza have been a bit a

3379
03:24:48,370 --> 03:24:50,740
bit of Swedish by the answers of staff around the

3380
03:24:50,740 --> 03:24:53,930
legalities of ensuring that that will in fact happen I

3381
03:24:53,930 --> 03:24:56,090
wish there was a little bit more that could happen

3382
03:24:56,090 --> 03:24:59,200
in the first phase because it's always a bit uneasy

3383
03:24:59,200 --> 03:25:01,990
making to ... to think of the phase developments like

3384
03:25:01,990 --> 03:25:04,800
this look across the water and we look at you

3385
03:25:04,800 --> 03:25:07,720
know the railyards and and ... and how many years

3386
03:25:07,750 --> 03:25:10,190
it took to do ... both that and land ...

3387
03:25:10,880 --> 03:25:13,990
... dockside green and that the kind of the fits

3388
03:25:13,990 --> 03:25:16,910
and starts that had and we didn't quite get everything

3389
03:25:16,910 --> 03:25:18,980
we wanted when we thought we would and so on

3390
03:25:19,210 --> 03:25:22,520
again if president that isn't great also would be it

3391
03:25:22,520 --> 03:25:24,000
would be helpful to be able to think that there's

3392
03:25:24,000 --> 03:25:26,990
some more public amenities that could be in phase one

3393
03:25:27,040 --> 03:25:29,270
... so that that could be something that is seen

3394
03:25:29,810 --> 03:25:33,160
... earlier ... but I I guess I have to

3395
03:25:33,160 --> 03:25:34,920
go back to the fact that the reservations that I

3396
03:25:34,920 --> 03:25:38,170
have I have to be balanced against the product this

3397
03:25:38,170 --> 03:25:42,180
is producing ... and like I guess my last question

3398
03:25:42,180 --> 03:25:44,790
I asked this ... and other times is that ...

3399
03:25:45,030 --> 03:25:48,040
was reminder that when we look at applications like this

3400
03:25:48,040 --> 03:25:51,010
we're looking at the proposal and not at the applicant

3401
03:25:51,460 --> 03:25:52,910
correct

3402
03:25:52,910 --> 03:25:56,160
and still consider the applicant we consider the proposal and

3403
03:25:56,160 --> 03:25:58,210
so you know there there may or may not be

3404
03:25:58,310 --> 03:26:00,950
... other questions that arise and that and that ...

3405
03:26:00,950 --> 03:26:03,930
venue but it's not something that is the

3406
03:26:03,930 --> 03:26:07,950
relevant to this consideration so ... at its is not

3407
03:26:07,950 --> 03:26:10,360
easy and I agree with mayor helps comments that this

3408
03:26:10,360 --> 03:26:12,470
may be one of the most profound decisions that this

3409
03:26:12,470 --> 03:26:17,020
council makes around land use and residents but

3410
03:26:17,020 --> 03:26:21,620
no rentals density climate change environments ... concentration of people

3411
03:26:21,620 --> 03:26:25,900
I think on balance ... it should go forward for

3412
03:26:25,900 --> 03:26:29,050
a conversation I think there are I think her help

3413
03:26:29,050 --> 03:26:31,260
she referred to the alphabet of conditions and I think

3414
03:26:31,260 --> 03:26:34,080
that once all those conditions are made it will take

3415
03:26:34,080 --> 03:26:36,560
so long to do that that ... will certainly have

3416
03:26:36,560 --> 03:26:40,340
an opportunity for there to be additional commentary made

3417
03:26:40,340 --> 03:26:44,130
... by the public and perhaps even some additional conditions

3418
03:26:44,130 --> 03:26:46,980
added by some council members today or or in the

3419
03:26:46,980 --> 03:26:49,040
future so

3420
03:26:49,040 --> 03:26:51,410
I'm not gonna be a wildly enthusiastic support of this

3421
03:26:51,410 --> 03:26:54,110
moving forward but on the materials presented I think on

3422
03:26:54,110 --> 03:26:56,890
balance ... the balances even and I believe I will

3423
03:26:56,890 --> 03:26:59,560
be supporting this moving forward today

3424
03:26:59,560 --> 03:27:01,720
okay thank you ... I am sorry if I missed

3425
03:27:01,720 --> 03:27:03,510
people's hands in there and I don't I might not

3426
03:27:03,510 --> 03:27:05,550
have everyone in the right order but I've got councillor

3427
03:27:05,550 --> 03:27:08,760
Thornton Joe Potts Loveday eyes an indigo ... and then

3428
03:27:08,760 --> 03:27:12,080
young ... councillor Joe it you are first a what

3429
03:27:12,080 --> 03:27:13,640
do you start your comments and then we'll take a

3430
03:27:13,640 --> 03:27:15,410
little bit lunch break and you'll have the floor when

3431
03:27:15,410 --> 03:27:19,030
we come back thank you ... if before I make

3432
03:27:19,030 --> 03:27:23,530
my statements ... just just a question ... mmhm and

3433
03:27:23,530 --> 03:27:25,960
I just I think I've seen it in

3434
03:27:25,960 --> 03:27:28,310
some of the other documents that we receive when we

3435
03:27:28,310 --> 03:27:34,720
talk about our population and what the capital region's ...

3436
03:27:34,720 --> 03:27:37,930
our goal for population and how much of that is

3437
03:27:37,930 --> 03:27:43,410
expected in the city of Victoria ...

3438
03:27:43,410 --> 03:27:46,950
and then when we look at the neighborhoods ... what

3439
03:27:46,950 --> 03:27:50,660
kind of population growth we're looking we're expecting in neighborhoods

3440
03:27:51,200 --> 03:27:54,000
so I'm not sure if the staff can answer this

3441
03:27:54,000 --> 03:28:01,250
question but are we on par on route to meeting

3442
03:28:01,640 --> 03:28:06,570
our the city's population growth and

3443
03:28:06,570 --> 03:28:13,460
and is the screen downtown here screen neighbourhood my understanding

3444
03:28:13,460 --> 03:28:16,270
is I would think I was told that it's actually

3445
03:28:16,300 --> 03:28:19,660
one of the neighbors of the is exceeded the expectations

3446
03:28:19,690 --> 03:28:23,920
of of growth do we do know that or do

3447
03:28:23,920 --> 03:28:25,830
we have staff that to be able to get that

3448
03:28:25,860 --> 03:28:27,570
information

3449
03:28:27,570 --> 03:28:31,560
Mrs

3450
03:28:31,560 --> 03:28:33,880
through the mayor I don't have all the details at

3451
03:28:33,880 --> 03:28:37,210
my fingertips ... that ... as noted in our housing

3452
03:28:37,210 --> 03:28:41,000
futures report ... we are R. O. C. P. ...

3453
03:28:41,030 --> 03:28:44,430
is not on track for meeting the population growth that

3454
03:28:44,840 --> 03:28:49,900
... we are anticipated to need ... the

3455
03:28:49,900 --> 03:28:53,850
if I recall correctly ... we were looking at a

3456
03:28:53,850 --> 03:28:56,700
lot of growth happening in our neighborhood centers and that

3457
03:28:56,700 --> 03:29:00,470
hasn't helped happened ... the downtown I believe this is

3458
03:29:00,670 --> 03:29:03,880
generally on par and ... not much of the growth

3459
03:29:03,880 --> 03:29:06,920
was gonna happen in our our neighborhoods ... if you'd

3460
03:29:06,920 --> 03:29:09,900
like some numbers so I can ... take a look

3461
03:29:09,900 --> 03:29:12,420
at the housing futures report in and get you some

3462
03:29:12,420 --> 03:29:16,260
additional information about yes thank you if in fact some

3463
03:29:16,260 --> 03:29:18,470
point ... that can be chief that big that be

3464
03:29:18,470 --> 03:29:22,060
great I'm I'm just serve for my three minutes and

3465
03:29:22,060 --> 03:29:27,050
left ... I think this is not ready to ...

3466
03:29:27,130 --> 03:29:30,370
moved to public hearing I think the

3467
03:29:30,370 --> 03:29:33,750
I'm part of that is is the difficulty in separating

3468
03:29:33,790 --> 03:29:38,890
the overall rezoning of all the parcels and the development

3469
03:29:38,890 --> 03:29:42,610
permit of of this property which I'm a little bit

3470
03:29:42,610 --> 03:29:46,430
more in favor of ... but I I you know

3471
03:29:46,430 --> 03:29:51,150
I went to the downtown business association the Cao Luke

3472
03:29:51,150 --> 03:29:57,870
and ... the concerns of neighbourhood ... represent the residents

3473
03:29:57,870 --> 03:30:03,210
in the neighborhood about the the increase ... height ...

3474
03:30:03,510 --> 03:30:06,760
did you know I I think the plazas great ...

3475
03:30:06,760 --> 03:30:09,680
but ... you know that I've heard many times from

3476
03:30:10,070 --> 03:30:13,110
the downtown residents that what they're really looking for a

3477
03:30:13,110 --> 03:30:15,950
four is green space and a and a park ...

3478
03:30:15,950 --> 03:30:20,810
where you know ... dogs can play our children can

3479
03:30:21,110 --> 03:30:25,970
climb ... ... place fractures ... so I'm I'm not

3480
03:30:25,970 --> 03:30:29,090
quite confident that ... we we have a right when

3481
03:30:29,090 --> 03:30:33,080
it comes to the the ...

3482
03:30:33,080 --> 03:30:35,530
I forget the term again that was used for the

3483
03:30:35,970 --> 03:30:40,860
the design ... manual ... when I was at the

3484
03:30:40,860 --> 03:30:45,810
ADP meeting no there were comments about the scale of

3485
03:30:45,810 --> 03:30:48,340
significance and

3486
03:30:48,340 --> 03:30:50,990
you know that ... we are starting to look more

3487
03:30:50,990 --> 03:30:55,750
like Toronto and and Vancouver and and less of what

3488
03:30:55,750 --> 03:30:59,630
makes a Victoria ... it's charm

3489
03:30:59,630 --> 03:31:02,050
I I think that there's some more work to be

3490
03:31:02,050 --> 03:31:07,330
done to reduce some of that the height ... I

3491
03:31:07,330 --> 03:31:11,380
do feel that ... there isn't enough affordable housing for

3492
03:31:11,380 --> 03:31:15,160
what is being asked and I know ... I think

3493
03:31:15,160 --> 03:31:19,030
in the presentation we have this morning on on the

3494
03:31:19,030 --> 03:31:22,040
the neighborhoods there was talk about ... they talked they

3495
03:31:22,040 --> 03:31:25,900
would like to see a variety of housing options and

3496
03:31:25,900 --> 03:31:29,200
I think that this application or the ... the rezoning

3497
03:31:29,200 --> 03:31:33,220
could could have more options I know this company does

3498
03:31:33,220 --> 03:31:36,950
more of does rental but I I would envision for

3499
03:31:36,950 --> 03:31:40,740
these pieces you know whether it is any one of

3500
03:31:40,740 --> 03:31:44,310
them being a condominium whether it could be a affordable

3501
03:31:44,310 --> 03:31:47,360
condominium minute like as some of the work that chart

3502
03:31:47,360 --> 03:31:51,070
development has done ... and as we know many of

3503
03:31:51,070 --> 03:31:55,060
the condos in downtown and there's street ... because of

3504
03:31:55,060 --> 03:31:58,560
the the the conditions that we place on it owners

3505
03:31:58,560 --> 03:32:04,080
can rent their their ... their units and so although

3506
03:32:04,080 --> 03:32:06,680
we don't have a lot of rental units that are

3507
03:32:06,680 --> 03:32:09,670
rental of I I I would say that we have

3508
03:32:09,670 --> 03:32:12,410
a lot of people renting in many of the condos

3509
03:32:12,410 --> 03:32:15,050
that are being built so I would like would like

3510
03:32:15,050 --> 03:32:17,420
to see more affordable I would like to see more

3511
03:32:17,420 --> 03:32:21,080
diversity of of housing perhaps one of the units of

3512
03:32:21,080 --> 03:32:26,910
buildings being ... affordable condominium ... and because of that

3513
03:32:26,940 --> 03:32:31,420
perhaps it would change the scale of of ... the

3514
03:32:31,420 --> 03:32:34,390
land left that me have produced some of the highlights

3515
03:32:34,650 --> 03:32:36,260
I've got more to say but I know this is

3516
03:32:36,260 --> 03:32:38,970
twelve thirty one thank you I appreciate you respecting that

3517
03:32:38,970 --> 03:32:41,070
so well when we get back we'll start with councillor

3518
03:32:41,070 --> 03:32:43,780
Thornton Joe ... and then ms Wayne has an answer

3519
03:32:43,780 --> 03:32:46,060
to councillor Isitt's question so we'll go to that next

3520
03:32:46,060 --> 03:32:47,760
and then we'll go through the speakers list point of

3521
03:32:47,760 --> 03:32:54,350
order yes is the Coriolis consultant going to be available

3522
03:32:54,350 --> 03:32:58,560
will the corals consultant be available after lunch

3523
03:32:58,560 --> 03:33:00,780
that is the intent yes but we can double check

3524
03:33:00,880 --> 03:33:03,030
okay perfect thank you

3525
03:33:03,030 --> 03:33:09,240
okay we'll see is all at 115

3526
03:33:09,240 --> 03:33:12,810
back at home we are on

3527
03:33:12,810 --> 03:33:16,560
councillor Dubow still has my agenda before on the

3528
03:33:16,560 --> 03:33:18,900
nine two three nine oh one nine eleven one forty

3529
03:33:18,900 --> 03:33:21,850
five units all those addresses on the screen yeah councillor

3530
03:33:21,850 --> 03:33:24,220
Thornton Joe has the floor ... and then we're going

3531
03:33:24,220 --> 03:33:27,340
to go to ms lane when she returns ... has

3532
03:33:27,340 --> 03:33:30,240
the information accounts are as a request earlier and then

3533
03:33:30,240 --> 03:33:32,120
we've got the rest of council still to speak so

3534
03:33:32,120 --> 03:33:35,210
councillor Thornton had

3535
03:33:35,210 --> 03:33:43,110
I sent the ball confirm my concerns being

3536
03:33:43,110 --> 03:33:48,680
I do think the the over thirty ... stories is

3537
03:33:48,710 --> 03:33:52,510
more than I feel ... even if it's up on

3538
03:33:52,600 --> 03:33:55,060
the land left in the

3539
03:33:55,060 --> 03:33:58,390
... what is being offered to meet some of the

3540
03:33:58,390 --> 03:34:03,140
goals of but I I think the word amenities now

3541
03:34:03,660 --> 03:34:05,540
more more

3542
03:34:05,540 --> 03:34:10,310
and some of the things that we accept as

3543
03:34:10,310 --> 03:34:15,520
sort of ... helping or or ... contribute to support

3544
03:34:15,520 --> 03:34:20,630
of the applications it is starting to drift a little

3545
03:34:20,630 --> 03:34:24,010
bit from what I think are amenities for the neighborhood

3546
03:34:24,010 --> 03:34:27,420
so when we start to look at daycare sure many

3547
03:34:27,420 --> 03:34:29,490
residents may be able to use a daycare but it

3548
03:34:29,490 --> 03:34:33,400
could be others from throughout the region or in all

3549
03:34:33,400 --> 03:34:37,860
of that live in some other municipality but work downtown

3550
03:34:37,910 --> 03:34:40,950
... when you look at ... some of sometimes the

3551
03:34:40,950 --> 03:34:44,640
green there is a pre patios are great amenities for

3552
03:34:44,640 --> 03:34:47,220
the people that live there but maybe not so much

3553
03:34:47,220 --> 03:34:51,290
... for for for ... ... downtown as a whole

3554
03:34:51,290 --> 03:34:53,890
when I look at the large report on some of

3555
03:34:53,890 --> 03:34:58,660
the the street furniture or the right aways or you

3556
03:34:58,660 --> 03:35:02,010
know other other things centre they're paying for that the

3557
03:35:02,010 --> 03:35:06,030
city would normally have to do once again very positive

3558
03:35:06,030 --> 03:35:10,490
but ... whether they're there the amenities ... that should

3559
03:35:10,490 --> 03:35:14,190
be included ... when it comes to ... being able

3560
03:35:14,190 --> 03:35:18,320
to be given this degree out of heightened density I

3561
03:35:18,320 --> 03:35:21,490
am concerned about the amount of time that it may

3562
03:35:21,490 --> 03:35:24,180
take for the other stage of some for those of

3563
03:35:24,180 --> 03:35:26,800
us within the table I think ... with counselor young

3564
03:35:26,800 --> 03:35:32,700
I think ... the dockside and real yards have almost

3565
03:35:32,700 --> 03:35:35,790
been about fifteen years is that maybe not maybe twenty

3566
03:35:35,790 --> 03:35:37,690
on one of them I think when I first came

3567
03:35:37,690 --> 03:35:40,430
on council one of them ... what's it was so

3568
03:35:40,690 --> 03:35:44,290
hard by by the developer I'm not saying that this

3569
03:35:44,290 --> 03:35:47,310
is this could happen but I I'm just concerned about

3570
03:35:47,500 --> 03:35:50,270
at the time of for some of the other amenities

3571
03:35:50,270 --> 03:35:51,390
and

3572
03:35:51,390 --> 03:35:55,910
I you know I'm really surprised that affordable housing is

3573
03:35:55,910 --> 03:36:00,480
consider really up ... something we should celebrate when it's

3574
03:36:00,480 --> 03:36:04,350
twenty three units out of the office of five hundred

3575
03:36:04,350 --> 03:36:08,570
ten in just this this section and then the other

3576
03:36:08,660 --> 03:36:12,260
... phases what I heard was none have been proposed

3577
03:36:12,510 --> 03:36:14,890
... whether that would change I think we need to

3578
03:36:14,890 --> 03:36:19,380
ensure that not only ... we need to ensure that

3579
03:36:19,380 --> 03:36:23,180
the for this to go forward it is proposed ...

3580
03:36:23,210 --> 03:36:27,630
and that ... they work also with the ... the

3581
03:36:27,630 --> 03:36:30,750
G. R. A. to see if the amenity of the

3582
03:36:30,780 --> 03:36:35,320
plaza is is what's desire for downtown residents or whether

3583
03:36:35,320 --> 03:36:39,830
there's something more that ... they should be considering and

3584
03:36:39,830 --> 03:36:43,640
whether one ... ...

3585
03:36:43,640 --> 03:36:45,860
yeah

3586
03:36:45,860 --> 03:36:49,880
until building could be as I said affordable ... condo

3587
03:36:49,880 --> 03:36:51,450
I think we need a bit of a more of

3588
03:36:51,450 --> 03:36:55,430
a mix of that is being offered so I'm concerned

3589
03:36:55,430 --> 03:36:58,290
that I think ... as some

3590
03:36:58,290 --> 03:37:00,620
... mayor helps you said you hoped that there could

3591
03:37:00,620 --> 03:37:03,050
be least PM at George's send it to public hearing

3592
03:37:03,410 --> 03:37:07,250
well in the past we've had many times where it

3593
03:37:07,250 --> 03:37:11,830
just has had a majority and then it has lost

3594
03:37:11,830 --> 03:37:14,280
and defeated by council and then we come back in

3595
03:37:14,330 --> 03:37:18,020
and it gets us to be looked at again and

3596
03:37:18,020 --> 03:37:20,930
I think ... I'm concerned that this one is just

3597
03:37:20,930 --> 03:37:24,960
not ready and needs more ... more time the question

3598
03:37:24,960 --> 03:37:27,810
I did have that I don't think it has been

3599
03:37:27,810 --> 03:37:31,600
answered or maybe I missed it is for those of

3600
03:37:31,600 --> 03:37:36,690
us are familiar with the screen area especially around that

3601
03:37:36,720 --> 03:37:40,620
section being ... problematic with its ground I think when

3602
03:37:41,200 --> 03:37:43,590
we have a ticket councillor young just to call the

3603
03:37:43,590 --> 03:37:48,590
roller coaster ride on on Vancouver street ... and and

3604
03:37:48,590 --> 03:37:53,210
... there was some ground concerns is the fact something

3605
03:37:53,210 --> 03:38:00,130
that may impact any of this development

3606
03:38:00,130 --> 03:38:02,550
through the mayor we we could check with the applicant

3607
03:38:02,670 --> 03:38:05,960
I know certainly the properties immediately to the south of

3608
03:38:05,960 --> 03:38:09,140
the site have that condition I wouldn't be surprised if

3609
03:38:09,140 --> 03:38:14,430
this also has some challenging ground conditions okay yeah yeah

3610
03:38:14,690 --> 03:38:17,320
I think there's just a lot of unanswered questions for

3611
03:38:17,320 --> 03:38:21,310
it to move to a public hearing and I'm and

3612
03:38:21,310 --> 03:38:23,470
as the mayor hopes that there's a majority that will

3613
03:38:23,470 --> 03:38:25,910
support I'm hoping the majority will see that it needs

3614
03:38:25,910 --> 03:38:27,500
more work

3615
03:38:27,500 --> 03:38:31,120
thank you very much councillor Potts

3616
03:38:31,120 --> 03:38:33,500
oh sorry ms lane with that will council is not

3617
03:38:33,500 --> 03:38:35,390
back yet so I don't think there's much point sharing

3618
03:38:35,390 --> 03:38:37,760
the information he needs so we'll I didn't think about

3619
03:38:37,760 --> 03:38:39,120
that though but we'll go to you and when he

3620
03:38:39,120 --> 03:38:42,400
gets back we'll share that information ... fair enough thanks

3621
03:38:42,400 --> 03:38:45,340
so much thanks for the presentation ... on this in

3622
03:38:45,340 --> 03:38:49,820
the information so far ... I think I guess comments

3623
03:38:49,820 --> 03:38:52,540
and questions are it's in order everything's in order you

3624
03:38:52,540 --> 03:38:54,930
that I think that it's ... we should be able

3625
03:38:54,930 --> 03:38:58,250
to density and housing in in in general and I

3626
03:38:58,250 --> 03:39:01,530
am nothing about the height actually concerns me but I

3627
03:39:01,530 --> 03:39:05,570
still have some questions that councillor Loveday asked around the

3628
03:39:05,570 --> 03:39:08,640
... the lands left and I don't know if or

3629
03:39:08,670 --> 03:39:12,620
if ... Mr urbis back on the line or

3630
03:39:12,620 --> 03:39:16,320
I am here councillor thank you ... just kind of

3631
03:39:16,320 --> 03:39:20,260
looking at starlets owned kind of documents look at it

3632
03:39:20,340 --> 03:39:24,830
and looking at the rental market fundamentals in BC they

3633
03:39:24,830 --> 03:39:28,360
they do seem to ... suggested the Canadian multi family

3634
03:39:28,360 --> 03:39:31,950
sector is particularly well positioned to generate attractive returns they

3635
03:39:31,950 --> 03:39:35,690
have a three point strategy our proof three point three

3636
03:39:35,690 --> 03:39:39,670
points around it ... in it including the ability to

3637
03:39:39,670 --> 03:39:43,450
acquire assets at discounted valuations and the capability to maximize

3638
03:39:43,450 --> 03:39:47,020
value creation through repositioning efforts such as increasing rents and

3639
03:39:47,020 --> 03:39:50,020
so just looking at how they're really looking at rising

3640
03:39:50,020 --> 03:39:52,990
demand for purpose built rental in BC and scarcity of

3641
03:39:52,990 --> 03:39:56,100
product as a reason to move into this market just

3642
03:39:56,100 --> 03:39:59,910
wondering how that kind of ... in and then also

3643
03:39:59,910 --> 03:40:02,560
other reports that at that there are more and more

3644
03:40:02,560 --> 03:40:06,030
acquisitions of rental properties and and development of rental without

3645
03:40:06,130 --> 03:40:08,940
this is the same kind of devaluation that we have

3646
03:40:09,230 --> 03:40:11,810
as seen previously like how that might affect it into

3647
03:40:11,810 --> 03:40:14,420
the land left it seems that there there are changing

3648
03:40:14,420 --> 03:40:18,310
conditions and ... there are quite a few more investments

3649
03:40:18,310 --> 03:40:19,660
from

3650
03:40:19,660 --> 03:40:24,730
particularly I'm a real estate investment trusts in BC and

3651
03:40:24,730 --> 03:40:28,060
I'm just wondering how if that does factor into the

3652
03:40:28,060 --> 03:40:31,070
land left in house

3653
03:40:31,070 --> 03:40:35,220
thanks for that question counsellor ... so it does factory

3654
03:40:35,490 --> 03:40:39,740
... what we what we have done in our analysis

3655
03:40:39,740 --> 03:40:44,300
is taken into account to that grants city in Victoria

3656
03:40:44,300 --> 03:40:47,410
as well as other parts of western Canada are on

3657
03:40:47,410 --> 03:40:51,510
the rise and so in our in our financial analysis

3658
03:40:51,510 --> 03:40:56,850
we've made assumptions that the rental market will be stronger

3659
03:40:56,850 --> 03:40:59,800
and stronger in terms of generating income to the owner

3660
03:40:59,800 --> 03:41:02,490
of rental buildings going forward

3661
03:41:02,490 --> 03:41:07,000
so not that flows into the the forecasts of the

3662
03:41:07,000 --> 03:41:11,810
potential revenue that come from the proposed buildings that starlight

3663
03:41:11,810 --> 03:41:15,190
is proposing in this particular instance

3664
03:41:15,190 --> 03:41:20,000
so even with that that calculation they're still there

3665
03:41:20,000 --> 03:41:24,410
the land left analysis still would I reflected a devaluation

3666
03:41:24,440 --> 03:41:28,070
of the land of Christina forty two million

3667
03:41:28,070 --> 03:41:33,000
yes that's correct ... can I just add a little

3668
03:41:33,000 --> 03:41:34,650
bit to

3669
03:41:34,650 --> 03:41:37,140
what goes into that ... if I if I may

3670
03:41:37,390 --> 03:41:41,310
so I know it may be surprising for people in

3671
03:41:41,310 --> 03:41:45,630
that you know you've got a rental apartment project that's

3672
03:41:46,090 --> 03:41:50,560
seeking significant additional density it may be surprising to find

3673
03:41:50,560 --> 03:41:53,210
that it doesn't create extra land value and and may

3674
03:41:53,210 --> 03:41:56,680
in fact decrease the estimated land value ... and it

3675
03:41:57,020 --> 03:42:00,500
really the the knob of it is that

3676
03:42:00,500 --> 03:42:04,230
the site has so many employees that is permitted to

3677
03:42:04,230 --> 03:42:09,380
be used for condominium development for strata apartment and when

3678
03:42:09,380 --> 03:42:14,260
you compare strata development course strata project with a comparable

3679
03:42:14,260 --> 03:42:18,030
rental project what's really happening is

3680
03:42:18,030 --> 03:42:21,840
the value of the completed building is much much higher

3681
03:42:22,220 --> 03:42:25,670
in the condo scenario than it is in the rental

3682
03:42:25,670 --> 03:42:30,350
scenario not saying that brands aren't high but from from

3683
03:42:30,350 --> 03:42:36,840
an apartment building investors perspective the total for the rental

3684
03:42:36,840 --> 03:42:40,750
buildings just not valued as high as the comparable condo

3685
03:42:40,750 --> 03:42:43,990
building and so

3686
03:42:43,990 --> 03:42:46,740
the reality is the cost of building those two different

3687
03:42:46,740 --> 03:42:50,130
forms of housing are very very similar ... slight differences

3688
03:42:50,130 --> 03:42:52,620
but by and large there's not a huge difference on

3689
03:42:52,620 --> 03:42:56,470
the construction costs so because the condo building is worth

3690
03:42:56,470 --> 03:42:58,230
so much more

3691
03:42:58,230 --> 03:43:02,810
in the rental building upon completion it just effectively comes

3692
03:43:02,810 --> 03:43:06,470
out of the land value or the process one one

3693
03:43:06,470 --> 03:43:09,180
or the other or both extent and that's what's happened

3694
03:43:09,180 --> 03:43:13,020
in this particular exercise in terms of the analysis that

3695
03:43:13,500 --> 03:43:17,700
what we're effectively saying is that a rental developer if

3696
03:43:17,700 --> 03:43:19,810
they have to pay

3697
03:43:19,810 --> 03:43:24,080
land values that are based on condominium last outliers which

3698
03:43:24,120 --> 03:43:27,390
which is the case in this particular instance the require

3699
03:43:27,390 --> 03:43:31,490
a very large increase in permitted density ... in order

3700
03:43:31,490 --> 03:43:35,130
to try to hold things together financially so I hope

3701
03:43:35,130 --> 03:43:38,720
that helps with the center

3702
03:43:38,720 --> 03:43:41,830
yes yes thank you for that the further explanation it

3703
03:43:41,860 --> 03:43:44,130
if it's still

3704
03:43:44,130 --> 03:43:48,250
so it feels a bit challenging first the the reasons

3705
03:43:48,250 --> 03:43:51,800
you you laid out there ... I I wonder to

3706
03:43:51,800 --> 03:43:55,230
staff it is there ... a dollar figure for the

3707
03:43:55,700 --> 03:43:59,420
... additional contributions interim I know there is we saw

3708
03:43:59,420 --> 03:44:02,310
the dollar figure for the art public art installation but

3709
03:44:02,310 --> 03:44:06,220
for ... some of the ... you know the plaza

3710
03:44:06,310 --> 03:44:11,010
installation ... some of the infrastructure right of way ...

3711
03:44:11,440 --> 03:44:13,090
improvements

3712
03:44:13,090 --> 03:44:16,050
is there ... any dollar figure touch that do you

3713
03:44:16,300 --> 03:44:17,910
Sir if that's not very clear do you know how

3714
03:44:17,910 --> 03:44:24,170
much the applicant is putting into those ... those amenities

3715
03:44:24,170 --> 03:44:26,910
through the mayor ... that there is some plants that

3716
03:44:26,910 --> 03:44:29,480
question for the for the public realm improvements we don't

3717
03:44:29,480 --> 03:44:32,920
assign a dollar value for that because the applicant is

3718
03:44:32,950 --> 03:44:35,830
... is paying for it so ... ... we care

3719
03:44:35,830 --> 03:44:38,780
about is the standard that that making the public aware

3720
03:44:38,780 --> 03:44:42,380
women treatments to and that any tell policy ... with

3721
03:44:42,380 --> 03:44:45,100
regard to the plaza ... we are currently working to

3722
03:44:45,100 --> 03:44:48,470
that number we haven't we haven't landed on anything just

3723
03:44:48,470 --> 03:44:51,990
yet ... but as per the staff recommendation we will

3724
03:44:51,990 --> 03:44:57,220
be ... verifying ... the the the dollar value for

3725
03:44:57,220 --> 03:45:01,300
the plaza with independent Quincy surveyor will qualify professional prior

3726
03:45:01,300 --> 03:45:03,900
to public hearing so there will be a number assigned

3727
03:45:03,900 --> 03:45:07,420
to that and it will be ... we will factor

3728
03:45:07,420 --> 03:45:11,440
in ... inflation rates ... at the time ... the

3729
03:45:11,490 --> 03:45:13,350
of the see if the plazas to be realized five

3730
03:45:13,350 --> 03:45:17,490
years down the line for example

3731
03:45:17,490 --> 03:45:21,600
thank you thank you and

3732
03:45:21,600 --> 03:45:25,920
I'd just as on the tenants assistance plan ... I

3733
03:45:25,920 --> 03:45:29,340
I I I respect ... the the staff report on

3734
03:45:29,340 --> 03:45:30,890
that that

3735
03:45:30,890 --> 03:45:34,970
there is there seems to be comfort in and

3736
03:45:34,970 --> 03:45:39,300
again completed a tenant assistance policy at a later date

3737
03:45:39,330 --> 03:45:40,630
at

3738
03:45:40,630 --> 03:45:44,170
a given experience so at the public hearing sometimes information

3739
03:45:44,170 --> 03:45:47,140
feels ... the eight you know it's just shared from

3740
03:45:47,140 --> 03:45:48,920
one side to the other it does feel like it

3741
03:45:48,920 --> 03:45:51,470
would I would have much more comfort if that was

3742
03:45:51,830 --> 03:45:55,900
... in place prior to up up at sending this

3743
03:45:55,900 --> 03:45:58,620
forward to public hearing and just because that's a very

3744
03:45:58,620 --> 03:46:02,650
important element I think of of our policy so I

3745
03:46:03,250 --> 03:46:05,750
think that's more of a a comment and I guess

3746
03:46:05,780 --> 03:46:08,800
I just a final comment ...

3747
03:46:08,800 --> 03:46:11,330
again I think that we really need to be bold

3748
03:46:11,330 --> 03:46:13,580
in terms of building I think that there is all

3749
03:46:13,680 --> 03:46:17,720
there is benefit in and ... and looking at the

3750
03:46:17,800 --> 03:46:21,540
development of this scale ... I did I did and

3751
03:46:21,540 --> 03:46:23,810
I do look forward to hearing the rest of my

3752
03:46:23,810 --> 03:46:27,060
colleagues comments I I do feel like there is more

3753
03:46:27,060 --> 03:46:33,260
that can be generated from this particular development given the

3754
03:46:33,260 --> 03:46:37,900
in the applicant's own understanding of how much a wealth

3755
03:46:37,900 --> 03:46:42,580
this will generate and ... and what a lucrative opportunity

3756
03:46:42,580 --> 03:46:45,160
... so I think that

3757
03:46:45,160 --> 03:46:47,320
there is great potential here but I think it may

3758
03:46:47,320 --> 03:46:50,610
be a few refinements will really help at garner more

3759
03:46:50,610 --> 03:46:52,560
support for this project

3760
03:46:52,560 --> 03:46:56,450
okay thank you M. before eight ... before the floor

3761
03:46:56,450 --> 03:46:59,620
leaves you councillor Potts ... use he suggested some more

3762
03:46:59,620 --> 03:47:02,420
refinements ... the way to do that would be through

3763
03:47:02,420 --> 03:47:07,700
amendment if you're ready willing and able ...

3764
03:47:07,700 --> 03:47:09,370
I would like to listen to the rest of my

3765
03:47:09,370 --> 03:47:11,460
colleagues and then okay perfect then I can yeah thank

3766
03:47:11,460 --> 03:47:13,580
you that's that's fair as well so maybe we can

3767
03:47:13,610 --> 03:47:16,480
all keep list of as a potential amendments as well

3768
03:47:16,480 --> 03:47:19,820
based on what people have said ... yeah councillor Isitt

3769
03:47:19,820 --> 03:47:23,200
is back ms Wayne can you give the information that

3770
03:47:23,200 --> 03:47:25,580
you that was requested earlier

3771
03:47:25,580 --> 03:47:27,930
yes thanks and just to summarize for what else benefit

3772
03:47:27,960 --> 03:47:31,920
... councillor eyes it was asking us ... the difference

3773
03:47:31,950 --> 03:47:35,890
in floor a number of stories um if the applicant

3774
03:47:35,890 --> 03:47:38,840
was to reduce the density from what's being proposed down

3775
03:47:38,840 --> 03:47:41,430
to what the OCP supports which is five point five

3776
03:47:41,430 --> 03:47:44,930
to one episode so we did when those numbers ...

3777
03:47:45,140 --> 03:47:47,350
in the breaking things there's a time for that and

3778
03:47:47,350 --> 03:47:49,460
it works out to be approximately three and a half

3779
03:47:49,460 --> 03:47:53,030
stories tower

3780
03:47:53,030 --> 03:47:55,820
if that helps three and a half stories less per

3781
03:47:55,820 --> 03:48:00,360
tower yes okay so yes less sorry input some PCS

3782
03:48:00,490 --> 03:48:02,410
three now street last

3783
03:48:02,410 --> 03:48:04,790
do I have the floor you don't ... but you'll

3784
03:48:04,790 --> 03:48:06,350
get it back

3785
03:48:06,350 --> 03:48:13,690
councillor Loveday is next in cancer as a Dubow young

3786
03:48:13,690 --> 03:48:17,280
yeah I'm gonna stick with

3787
03:48:17,280 --> 03:48:23,200
questions watch second street comments ... who ... more questions

3788
03:48:23,230 --> 03:48:26,460
... what with our

3789
03:48:26,460 --> 03:48:31,460
housing policies what would be the annual or the monthly

3790
03:48:31,460 --> 03:48:41,010
rent on a median housing unit

3791
03:48:41,010 --> 03:48:43,940
through the mayor we do you have ... our housing

3792
03:48:43,940 --> 03:48:46,720
plan is ... who worked on the tenant assistance plan

3793
03:48:46,720 --> 03:48:50,380
on the line ... I'm hoping they are listening ...

3794
03:48:50,380 --> 03:48:53,240
I think it may be best directed to this stuff

3795
03:48:54,210 --> 03:48:56,210
so you the question is what would the monthly rent

3796
03:48:56,210 --> 03:48:59,540
be according to the city's housing affordability policy yeah on

3797
03:48:59,540 --> 03:49:02,670
the on the units that are considered affordable but they're

3798
03:49:02,670 --> 03:49:06,260
two medium great so so ms Tunis are you the

3799
03:49:06,260 --> 03:49:17,180
best person to answer that question

3800
03:49:17,180 --> 03:49:21,100
hello sorry bout that ... I'm just I think I'll

3801
03:49:21,100 --> 03:49:26,290
defer to ... ... ms Wayne on on that who

3802
03:49:26,290 --> 03:49:31,980
is dealing directly with the housing agreement as I

3803
03:49:31,980 --> 03:49:35,350
just sorry just looks for clear answer for clarity I

3804
03:49:35,350 --> 03:49:39,130
think what we need is just what does the city's

3805
03:49:39,130 --> 03:49:42,800
housing affordability policy safe what is the what's the rent

3806
03:49:42,800 --> 03:49:45,880
for median people are earning a median income according to

3807
03:49:45,880 --> 03:49:48,460
our definition of affordability what's the what's the rent and

3808
03:49:48,460 --> 03:49:50,000
maybe with this is something we need to just let

3809
03:49:50,000 --> 03:49:53,080
staff have a look at the policy and get back

3810
03:49:53,080 --> 03:49:55,710
that would

3811
03:49:55,710 --> 03:49:59,250
we do have ... another member stuff and housing planning

3812
03:49:59,250 --> 03:50:03,010
Margot ... who's of the times that question okay Mister

3813
03:50:03,010 --> 03:50:05,310
might as go ahead

3814
03:50:05,310 --> 03:50:08,100
... yeah thank you mayor and council so I'm just

3815
03:50:08,100 --> 03:50:11,890
looking at our Victoria housing strategy ... and we have

3816
03:50:11,890 --> 03:50:16,390
a tabled affordable rents so the median income ... average

3817
03:50:16,390 --> 03:50:19,650
rents for a bachelor unit is eight hundred and seventy

3818
03:50:19,650 --> 03:50:24,250
five dollars per month one bedroom ... one thousand fifty

3819
03:50:24,590 --> 03:50:27,670
two bedroom is ... one thousand three hundred and a

3820
03:50:27,670 --> 03:50:30,920
three bedroom is seventeen fifty

3821
03:50:30,920 --> 03:50:33,550
I hope that helps and that's just taken straight from

3822
03:50:33,550 --> 03:50:39,780
the Victoria housing strategy section on housing affordability

3823
03:50:39,780 --> 03:50:42,780
yes that does help I'm basically what I'm doing is

3824
03:50:42,780 --> 03:50:46,340
I'm looking at the rents that are currently being paid

3825
03:50:46,370 --> 03:50:49,960
on by the people who will be displaced and ...

3826
03:50:49,990 --> 03:50:52,870
their rents are available within the

3827
03:50:52,870 --> 03:50:56,420
... the tenant assistance plans and in so trying to

3828
03:50:56,470 --> 03:50:58,820
see

3829
03:50:58,820 --> 03:51:03,490
how how comparable they are to what's being replaced it's

3830
03:51:03,490 --> 03:51:05,440
still a very

3831
03:51:05,440 --> 03:51:09,640
minimal amount of affordable housing that's being proposed as part

3832
03:51:09,640 --> 03:51:13,810
of this development when ... especially when looking at fifteen

3833
03:51:14,420 --> 03:51:17,100
units are being lost at that are are that are

3834
03:51:17,100 --> 03:51:21,080
at attainable rates ...

3835
03:51:21,080 --> 03:51:27,170
specifically a couple ... three two bedrooms as well ...

3836
03:51:27,400 --> 03:51:29,780
so I and I'm not sure the

3837
03:51:29,780 --> 03:51:33,290
the unit mix of the full ... development here and

3838
03:51:33,290 --> 03:51:37,990
that's that's one question I have is ... in leaders

3839
03:51:37,990 --> 03:51:43,400
stages what guarantees do we have that there will be

3840
03:51:43,650 --> 03:51:49,690
family housing ... and that it will just be bachelors

3841
03:51:49,690 --> 03:51:52,360
thank you for the question yet with like you say

3842
03:51:52,360 --> 03:51:56,080
and we don't have the the final unit right down

3843
03:51:56,080 --> 03:51:59,690
to the later phases however we do know is that

3844
03:51:59,760 --> 03:52:03,620
there are townhouses ... proposed again be flanking the squat

3845
03:52:03,620 --> 03:52:06,000
the public plaza ... on the view street green for

3846
03:52:06,000 --> 03:52:10,740
example ... so is it is anticipated that the mix

3847
03:52:10,740 --> 03:52:14,510
will be similar to the first phase

3848
03:52:14,510 --> 03:52:16,940
on this part of the first phase wait while we

3849
03:52:16,940 --> 03:52:20,850
ought we are tying down the ... the exact unit

3850
03:52:20,850 --> 03:52:24,060
makes illegal agreements ... as part of the first phase

3851
03:52:24,450 --> 03:52:27,230
um so there is there is the option to consider

3852
03:52:27,510 --> 03:52:30,500
... a similar mix is possibly to faces through the

3853
03:52:30,500 --> 03:52:33,360
legal agreement

3854
03:52:33,360 --> 03:52:36,560
so is it possible then to

3855
03:52:36,560 --> 03:52:38,790
it is what I'm hearing that it would be possible

3856
03:52:38,790 --> 03:52:43,690
to ... request or require at legal agreement now that

3857
03:52:43,690 --> 03:52:45,240
would lock in

3858
03:52:45,240 --> 03:52:48,730
unit mixes on the future buildings I think I would

3859
03:52:48,730 --> 03:52:52,130
have to be some ... element of flexibility ... given

3860
03:52:52,130 --> 03:52:53,970
the fact we don't know what the total numbers up

3861
03:52:54,380 --> 03:52:58,080
but ... I don't see there being any issues with

3862
03:52:58,110 --> 03:53:01,480
... having a proportional amount ... for example you just

3863
03:53:01,480 --> 03:53:06,280
have to be carefully what it

3864
03:53:06,280 --> 03:53:09,220
well I will state

3865
03:53:09,220 --> 03:53:12,010
my intent to make a an amendment of that sort

3866
03:53:12,160 --> 03:53:16,160
... and leave it up to our competent staff to

3867
03:53:16,160 --> 03:53:19,540
figure out the the right wording ... to make that

3868
03:53:19,570 --> 03:53:24,940
as careful that needs to be ...

3869
03:53:24,940 --> 03:53:27,640
looking

3870
03:53:27,640 --> 03:53:30,120
at the

3871
03:53:30,120 --> 03:53:31,840


3872
03:53:31,840 --> 03:53:36,370
plaza what is anticipated to be

3873
03:53:36,370 --> 03:53:39,780
considering we we just have conceptual designs at this point

3874
03:53:40,170 --> 03:53:42,930
is there ...

3875
03:53:42,930 --> 03:53:47,310
what is the impediment to requiring a detailed design at

3876
03:53:47,310 --> 03:53:51,020
this point that could then be the legal obligation moving

3877
03:53:51,020 --> 03:53:54,770
forward ...

3878
03:53:54,770 --> 03:53:58,820
yes Sir is the applicant has obviously come forward with

3879
03:53:58,820 --> 03:54:02,580
the development of just for the first phase ... and

3880
03:54:03,060 --> 03:54:06,720
ultimately yeah we we don't have a development for that

3881
03:54:06,790 --> 03:54:09,520
for the latest plaza if the applicant had agreed to

3882
03:54:09,550 --> 03:54:13,920
come forward with a development for the plaza the the

3883
03:54:13,920 --> 03:54:16,900
any limiting factor I suppose from that perspective will be

3884
03:54:16,900 --> 03:54:20,340
timing typically develop permits have an expiration date of two

3885
03:54:20,340 --> 03:54:23,540
years so they would need to begin construction on the

3886
03:54:23,540 --> 03:54:27,800
normal amount payments ... timing ... they would need to

3887
03:54:27,800 --> 03:54:31,930
S. substantially stock committee ... construction within two minutes two

3888
03:54:31,960 --> 03:54:35,330
years of that development being issued out of see we

3889
03:54:35,360 --> 03:54:37,270
we mentioned earlier in the meeting that you know if

3890
03:54:37,410 --> 03:54:39,200
the timing of that is for you not going to

3891
03:54:39,200 --> 03:54:42,200
happen to at least five years from now ... however

3892
03:54:42,200 --> 03:54:45,540
council does have the authorization to provide a development with

3893
03:54:45,540 --> 03:54:48,630
a longer time frame ... but ultimately we don't we

3894
03:54:48,630 --> 03:54:50,900
don't have the down payment for the

3895
03:54:50,900 --> 03:54:54,340
plaza at this stage so we're trying to secure rate

3896
03:54:54,370 --> 03:54:59,830
through other mechanisms legal agreement the design guidelines ... ...

3897
03:54:59,830 --> 03:55:02,400
the conceptually zoning booklet or days will play into the

3898
03:55:02,400 --> 03:55:06,520
leak agreements for how how that plazas realized

3899
03:55:06,520 --> 03:55:09,940
just if I if I may add something

3900
03:55:09,940 --> 03:55:12,400
there's another part to this that if even if the

3901
03:55:12,400 --> 03:55:15,430
applicant did hurt the development permit for the entire site

3902
03:55:15,430 --> 03:55:19,050
right now and council approved of development permit lap state

3903
03:55:19,050 --> 03:55:22,840
of several years out there's nothing to compel a developer

3904
03:55:22,840 --> 03:55:26,040
to build the exact they they can come forward with

3905
03:55:26,040 --> 03:55:29,790
a new development permit so ... there's always the possibility

3906
03:55:29,790 --> 03:55:32,320
that a design may change but it has to go

3907
03:55:32,320 --> 03:55:35,830
back to council and council needs can

3908
03:55:35,830 --> 03:55:38,280
approve it or not

3909
03:55:38,280 --> 03:55:41,860
yeah and I think

3910
03:55:41,860 --> 03:55:45,440
you know obviously what we're trying to do is

3911
03:55:45,440 --> 03:55:50,180
get as much as of what is ... promised in

3912
03:55:50,180 --> 03:55:54,410
terms of the plaza to be ... locked in through

3913
03:55:54,410 --> 03:55:59,590
legal agreements as early as possible and ... make sure

3914
03:55:59,590 --> 03:56:02,930
that it is actually the amenity that it's purported to

3915
03:56:02,930 --> 03:56:06,230
be ... you know we

3916
03:56:06,230 --> 03:56:09,410
you go to it you go to some majors cities

3917
03:56:09,460 --> 03:56:13,370
that have ... towers and huge plazas and there's nobody

3918
03:56:13,370 --> 03:56:17,420
in because they're really poorly designed and it's you know

3919
03:56:17,420 --> 03:56:19,960
it's one of the biggest public you know because I

3920
03:56:19,960 --> 03:56:23,160
public spaces in the neighborhood ... but if people are

3921
03:56:23,160 --> 03:56:25,720
choosing to sit ...

3922
03:56:25,720 --> 03:56:28,990
anywhere else because it's ... you know it's a dead

3923
03:56:28,990 --> 03:56:32,410
zone that's in the shadow of a large building so

3924
03:56:32,650 --> 03:56:35,420
we we wanna make sure that this is thoughtfully designed

3925
03:56:35,420 --> 03:56:37,130
and I think

3926
03:56:37,130 --> 03:56:39,170
I think the route I I personally would have more

3927
03:56:39,170 --> 03:56:41,440
comfort if there is ...

3928
03:56:41,440 --> 03:56:47,500
Sir to a detailed design before voting on

3929
03:56:47,500 --> 03:56:48,790


3930
03:56:48,790 --> 03:56:51,650
a rezoning that would then grant them the right to

3931
03:56:52,320 --> 03:56:54,060
that ...

3932
03:56:54,060 --> 03:56:56,900
density at least within the OCP I don't know if

3933
03:56:56,900 --> 03:56:59,470
there's further comments or if I'm just ranting at this

3934
03:56:59,470 --> 03:57:06,950
point but I'm turning your comments into amendments okay ...

3935
03:57:06,950 --> 03:57:13,740
create

3936
03:57:13,740 --> 03:57:16,160
maybe I will all

3937
03:57:16,160 --> 03:57:18,760
I'll see the floor for now okay thank you all

3938
03:57:18,760 --> 03:57:20,590
come back to and councillor Potts I turn your comments

3939
03:57:20,590 --> 03:57:23,200
into amendments to so ... maybe when it's time to

3940
03:57:23,200 --> 03:57:24,600
come back to me I can try some of them

3941
03:57:24,600 --> 03:57:28,730
I councillor Isitt people young

3942
03:57:28,730 --> 03:57:33,860
... I think ... for redevelopment of these parcels parcels

3943
03:57:33,860 --> 03:57:38,020
to be suitable ... I think the applications need to

3944
03:57:38,020 --> 03:57:43,500
substantially rain in ... the ... aspirations particularly with respect

3945
03:57:43,500 --> 03:57:48,570
to height ... I think the inconsistency with policy breaches

3946
03:57:48,570 --> 03:57:51,510
way too far ... I think the cleanest way to

3947
03:57:51,510 --> 03:57:56,300
proceed would be with the referral motion ... hearing that

3948
03:57:56,300 --> 03:58:00,040
other colleagues have potential amendments I think ... those could

3949
03:58:00,040 --> 03:58:03,250
still be accomplished through amendments to a referral motion so

3950
03:58:03,250 --> 03:58:05,600
I think now is as good a time as any

3951
03:58:05,600 --> 03:58:09,050
to attempt referral motion so I'd like to move that

3952
03:58:09,080 --> 03:58:13,840
the application be referred to staff

3953
03:58:13,840 --> 03:58:17,790
to work with the applicant

3954
03:58:17,790 --> 03:58:22,450
to revise the application

3955
03:58:22,450 --> 03:58:27,190
to achieve greater consistency

3956
03:58:27,190 --> 03:58:31,090
with the OCP

3957
03:58:31,090 --> 03:58:35,380
particularly as it pertains

3958
03:58:35,380 --> 03:58:38,480
to the height of the towers

3959
03:58:38,480 --> 03:58:40,780
and the density

3960
03:58:40,780 --> 03:58:44,510
second by councillor Thornton Joe okay go ahead I believe

3961
03:58:44,510 --> 03:58:47,900
I motivated with my comments prior to moving the referral

3962
03:58:47,900 --> 03:58:51,350
motion soul listen to my colleagues councillor Thornton Joe was

3963
03:58:51,350 --> 03:58:53,680
a seconder to the referral motion and then councillor Dubow

3964
03:58:54,250 --> 03:58:57,850
just a question to the mover when you mention ...

3965
03:58:57,850 --> 03:59:02,360
amendments that councillors might make where with that I think

3966
03:59:02,360 --> 03:59:04,080
it could be right now so it could be an

3967
03:59:04,080 --> 03:59:07,070
amendment to you could amend the referral motion to add

3968
03:59:07,070 --> 03:59:09,840
additional language for other things you would want to see

3969
03:59:09,840 --> 03:59:13,610
addresses visitor

3970
03:59:13,610 --> 03:59:17,890
okay

3971
03:59:17,890 --> 03:59:19,810
I want to see if there's any other speakers first

3972
03:59:19,810 --> 03:59:22,370
let me get my thought okay thank you councillor Dubow

3973
03:59:22,400 --> 03:59:24,200
point of order

3974
03:59:24,200 --> 03:59:27,690
to explain the material part of a previous okay ...

3975
03:59:27,790 --> 03:59:30,220
it could be simply and it could be a river

3976
03:59:30,300 --> 03:59:33,190
amendments could be support and to the could just be

3977
03:59:33,190 --> 03:59:36,870
added at the end any additional points thank you okay

3978
03:59:36,910 --> 03:59:41,410
thank you councillor Dubow ... thanks mayor helps ... I

3979
03:59:41,410 --> 03:59:45,890
do agree a lot of comments that has being raised

3980
03:59:45,890 --> 03:59:51,150
previously on speaking on this and motion on the floor

3981
03:59:51,370 --> 03:59:55,810
I'll come back my comments to the original and to

3982
03:59:55,810 --> 03:59:59,480
the application but speaking on the motion I would also

3983
03:59:59,480 --> 04:00:03,170
like to move amendment to the mall and to the

3984
04:00:03,170 --> 04:00:04,670
motion

3985
04:00:04,670 --> 04:00:06,380
on

3986
04:00:06,380 --> 04:00:11,720
she vice and a and the yeah

3987
04:00:11,720 --> 04:00:21,550
he did do you do units

3988
04:00:21,550 --> 04:00:25,230
why is the improvise the number of doing units to

3989
04:00:25,230 --> 04:00:28,840
reflect more free and

3990
04:00:28,840 --> 04:00:32,830
3 on 2 bedrooms

3991
04:00:32,830 --> 04:00:34,980
do you mean for all phases

3992
04:00:34,980 --> 04:00:39,530
all faces okay

3993
04:00:39,530 --> 04:00:41,910
okay moved and seconded so now we're on an amendment

3994
04:00:41,950 --> 04:00:45,600
to the referral motion ... with the mover like to

3995
04:00:45,600 --> 04:00:49,200
motivate and then I'll go to the seconder yes mayor

3996
04:00:49,200 --> 04:00:53,860
helps thank you I I think there's this perception that

3997
04:00:53,860 --> 04:00:57,590
the printer is are looking one fateful and but that's

3998
04:00:57,590 --> 04:01:02,200
not the case and in my perspective I say renter

3999
04:01:02,230 --> 04:01:04,480
on and I've seen a lot of rain too is

4000
04:01:04,760 --> 04:01:09,630
when you have three bedrooms and one is cheaper second

4001
04:01:09,630 --> 04:01:15,690
you have your own community in terms of sharing and

4002
04:01:15,690 --> 04:01:20,540
the that that the units ... and one one room

4003
04:01:20,820 --> 04:01:23,040
there could be coupled in the other room there could

4004
04:01:23,040 --> 04:01:28,190
be a couple so that created small as send software

4005
04:01:28,220 --> 04:01:33,520
and community on and on and also ease prophetical and

4006
04:01:33,520 --> 04:01:39,370
in terms of increasing not only family unit spot Mirantis

4007
04:01:39,370 --> 04:01:44,900
also pretty fair and and two or three bedrooms because

4008
04:01:44,900 --> 04:01:48,340
of the cost but it is because of socializing and

4009
04:01:48,340 --> 04:01:52,770
having and other household this in the house so ...

4010
04:01:52,770 --> 04:01:56,660
yeah I believe this always perception wrenches and preferred one

4011
04:01:56,660 --> 04:02:01,190
pencil but in my experience that's not the case okay

4012
04:02:01,190 --> 04:02:03,810
thank you very much the seconder to the amendment councillor

4013
04:02:03,810 --> 04:02:09,060
Austin I'm gonna propose an amendment ... which is the

4014
04:02:09,060 --> 04:02:12,770
number of units ... I guess replace that with unit

4015
04:02:12,800 --> 04:02:15,200
mix

4016
04:02:15,200 --> 04:02:19,000
okay is there a seconder seconded by councillor Loveday

4017
04:02:19,000 --> 04:02:21,930
okay a discussion on changing number of units to unit

4018
04:02:21,930 --> 04:02:23,400
mix

4019
04:02:23,400 --> 04:02:26,490
all those in favor how did you wanna speak any

4020
04:02:26,490 --> 04:02:30,610
opposed okay that's just basically a language to okay okay

4021
04:02:30,610 --> 04:02:32,170
councillor Isitt you still have the floor and boy you

4022
04:02:32,170 --> 04:02:33,430
can I just say how nice it is to have

4023
04:02:33,430 --> 04:02:36,050
everybody here I don't have to ask anyone to turn

4024
04:02:36,050 --> 04:02:39,140
on their cameras it's just great go ahead I support

4025
04:02:39,140 --> 04:02:42,780
this ... I think with the building with buildings that

4026
04:02:42,780 --> 04:02:46,190
are so large and have so many units envisioned we

4027
04:02:46,190 --> 04:02:49,920
do have to make sure they're appropriate for families and

4028
04:02:49,920 --> 04:02:52,670
... so I think ...

4029
04:02:52,670 --> 04:02:55,800
... nudging the applicant in this direction is a good

4030
04:02:55,830 --> 04:02:58,860
step to take okay anyone else want to comment on

4031
04:02:58,860 --> 04:03:01,370
this councillor Thornton Joe

4032
04:03:01,370 --> 04:03:05,430
wish to staff when we talk about

4033
04:03:05,430 --> 04:03:10,210
units sold whether it's a bachelor or one bedroom

4034
04:03:10,210 --> 04:03:13,260
is there any can you remind me of the recall

4035
04:03:13,810 --> 04:03:17,380
is there a requirement of a size so say for

4036
04:03:17,380 --> 04:03:20,840
example if a motion was from four to at more

4037
04:03:20,840 --> 04:03:26,610
affordable housing could then the applicant take to affordable

4038
04:03:26,610 --> 04:03:30,310
bachelors and make an even smaller making three it looks

4039
04:03:30,310 --> 04:03:33,580
so is there any record are we saying we want

4040
04:03:33,720 --> 04:03:37,550
more of a mix ... that we're insuring that the

4041
04:03:37,550 --> 04:03:41,030
sizes of the units are actually

4042
04:03:41,030 --> 04:03:43,160
appropriate

4043
04:03:43,160 --> 04:03:45,190
and not that we just get a mix but they're

4044
04:03:45,220 --> 04:03:48,920
smaller and smaller think of a question we don't actually

4045
04:03:48,920 --> 04:03:52,460
have any regulations in the zoning bylaw ... at this

4046
04:03:52,460 --> 04:03:58,300
particular location that stipulated Eminem's unit size in some sense

4047
04:03:58,300 --> 04:04:01,100
throughout the city there is a basic requirement but that

4048
04:04:01,100 --> 04:04:05,250
typically in the low density neighborhoods not in the downtown

4049
04:04:05,250 --> 04:04:07,740
okay I will support this but I was just curious

4050
04:04:07,740 --> 04:04:09,270
on

4051
04:04:09,270 --> 04:04:13,000
on on size of units okay thank you

4052
04:04:13,000 --> 04:04:15,700
I thank you on the amendment that's on the table

4053
04:04:15,920 --> 04:04:19,450
councillor young no okay I'm I'm I'm gonna speak on

4054
04:04:19,450 --> 04:04:23,600
the amendment ... I support this but only as part

4055
04:04:23,600 --> 04:04:26,520
of the main motion to move this forward ... as

4056
04:04:26,520 --> 04:04:29,230
I said earlier I think sort of the stick to

4057
04:04:29,230 --> 04:04:31,400
the yes it more two and three bedroom units would

4058
04:04:31,400 --> 04:04:34,910
be welcome ... I think sending this forward with our

4059
04:04:34,910 --> 04:04:37,890
stipulations rather than back with their stipulations I fundamentally don't

4060
04:04:37,890 --> 04:04:40,080
support the motion to refer but I will as I

4061
04:04:40,080 --> 04:04:42,240
guess I won't support the amendment even though in principle

4062
04:04:42,240 --> 04:04:43,580
I do I just want council to know that I

4063
04:04:43,580 --> 04:04:46,750
would support this as added to up forward it ...

4064
04:04:46,750 --> 04:04:50,230
for for revision but not send it back ... so

4065
04:04:50,230 --> 04:04:51,660
I'll leave it at that so I guess I won't

4066
04:04:51,660 --> 04:04:54,520
support the amendment even though in principle I do ...

4067
04:04:54,520 --> 04:04:57,180
anyone else wanna speak on the amendment

4068
04:04:57,180 --> 04:05:00,470
okay all yes councillor Loveday

4069
04:05:00,470 --> 04:05:02,640
yeah it's kind of an interest we're in an interesting

4070
04:05:02,640 --> 04:05:05,330
place because if there is ... there's an a motion

4071
04:05:05,330 --> 04:05:10,730
to refer that is ... based on opposition to the

4072
04:05:10,730 --> 04:05:16,420
height and density ... and I personally can't support sending

4073
04:05:16,420 --> 04:05:20,860
it to public hearing today ...

4074
04:05:20,860 --> 04:05:25,350
but if the if the proposal had ... more in

4075
04:05:25,350 --> 04:05:31,360
terms of affordability unit mix ... amenities locked in and

4076
04:05:31,400 --> 04:05:35,510
all of the things that are laid out in the

4077
04:05:35,510 --> 04:05:38,680
in the report as ... going forward I think I

4078
04:05:38,680 --> 04:05:40,410
need to see that at a committee of the whole

4079
04:05:40,410 --> 04:05:43,920
I can't I don't have ... you know we talked

4080
04:05:43,920 --> 04:05:46,400
about leaps of faith and trust I don't have that

4081
04:05:46,400 --> 04:05:48,370
trust going into the public hearing so I need to

4082
04:05:48,370 --> 04:05:51,730
see it again ... and ...

4083
04:05:51,730 --> 04:05:53,820
but we're in a weird place because we've got this

4084
04:05:53,820 --> 04:05:57,260
referral that's based on a very specific thing ... rather

4085
04:05:57,260 --> 04:05:59,630
than ...

4086
04:05:59,630 --> 04:06:03,100
love the other ... issues that have been raised by

4087
04:06:03,100 --> 04:06:06,210
other colleagues thank you just a point of processes for

4088
04:06:06,210 --> 04:06:08,930
council's information ... based on what councillor they said I

4089
04:06:08,930 --> 04:06:10,530
could have this wrong but I don't think I do

4090
04:06:10,530 --> 04:06:12,610
because I just checked in with some answers about it

4091
04:06:12,870 --> 04:06:15,340
we will see this again at a committee of the

4092
04:06:15,340 --> 04:06:17,640
whole because of the OCP amendment is that correct so

4093
04:06:17,640 --> 04:06:20,000
this will come back to committee of the whole anyway

4094
04:06:20,000 --> 04:06:22,400
even if we don't refer it because the OCP amendment

4095
04:06:22,400 --> 04:06:23,910
has to come back to committee of the whole can

4096
04:06:23,910 --> 04:06:28,510
staff confirm that's correct that's correct okay thank you

4097
04:06:28,510 --> 04:06:32,660
so on this amendment any further discussion

4098
04:06:32,660 --> 04:06:37,040
yes go ahead so with that one

4099
04:06:37,040 --> 04:06:39,400
why then is it

4100
04:06:39,400 --> 04:06:42,490
recommended the way it is with with all of these

4101
04:06:42,490 --> 04:06:46,640
stipulations of of work that is yet to be done

4102
04:06:46,640 --> 04:06:50,990
that we're sort of being asked to approve today ...

4103
04:06:51,590 --> 04:06:53,970
in in will will all that be work by that

4104
04:06:54,030 --> 04:06:56,890
date be done by the time it would come back

4105
04:06:56,890 --> 04:07:01,800
for the OCP ... the discussion

4106
04:07:01,800 --> 04:07:04,880
yes the way the recommendation is worded is so that

4107
04:07:05,360 --> 04:07:10,630
of all of the items listed as a through

4108
04:07:10,630 --> 04:07:14,000
R. or whatever whatever the

4109
04:07:14,000 --> 04:07:17,740
the although that are that we would be concurrently working

4110
04:07:17,740 --> 04:07:20,470
on all those legal agreements all those revisions things that

4111
04:07:20,470 --> 04:07:23,820
we need the applicant to address plus anything council wants

4112
04:07:23,820 --> 04:07:27,450
to add the OCP referral would occur so that it

4113
04:07:27,450 --> 04:07:31,630
would be referred out it to where staff are recommending

4114
04:07:31,630 --> 04:07:34,240
to owners and occupiers within two hundred meters of the

4115
04:07:34,240 --> 04:07:37,000
subject property and then there'll be a follow up committee

4116
04:07:37,000 --> 04:07:40,290
of the whole report that would button this all down

4117
04:07:40,320 --> 04:07:43,670
back to committee of the whole for council finally considered

4118
04:07:43,670 --> 04:07:46,090
whether it was ready to take it to first and

4119
04:07:46,090 --> 04:07:48,150
second reading

4120
04:07:48,150 --> 04:07:52,060
so N. we would at that point receive all of

4121
04:07:52,060 --> 04:07:54,950
the public input from the two hundred

4122
04:07:54,950 --> 04:07:57,410
eater

4123
04:07:57,410 --> 04:08:00,750
mailer yes that's correct thank you

4124
04:08:00,750 --> 04:08:03,950
okay thank you on this amendment here to review amend

4125
04:08:03,950 --> 04:08:07,200
the referral motion counselor Loveday and counselor sorry councillor Dubow

4126
04:08:07,760 --> 04:08:12,160
thanks mayor helps and I I I do support on

4127
04:08:12,160 --> 04:08:15,800
... on ... it it it's nice to see the

4128
04:08:15,800 --> 04:08:19,490
the rest of the consistent pattern because one thing I

4129
04:08:19,490 --> 04:08:24,000
want to guarantees I don't and actually support the the

4130
04:08:24,000 --> 04:08:28,260
whole projects for our cities but I I I I

4131
04:08:28,290 --> 04:08:32,970
just wanna achieve as much as icon interim resolve to

4132
04:08:32,970 --> 04:08:36,310
include if it might be supported the rest of the

4133
04:08:36,310 --> 04:08:41,560
council because the one the the words capacity on supply

4134
04:08:42,140 --> 04:08:45,440
that treat all the units are secret violence but that

4135
04:08:45,440 --> 04:08:49,550
are hugely important differences between units I'm not the least

4136
04:08:49,580 --> 04:08:54,760
affordable so and Lisa this is one and making sure

4137
04:08:54,760 --> 04:08:59,060
that is a lie and the unit size is increased

4138
04:08:59,620 --> 04:09:03,150
but there is a lot of other things that I

4139
04:09:03,150 --> 04:09:07,450
I do not support in the application

4140
04:09:07,450 --> 04:09:11,290
on this amendment all those in favor of the amendment

4141
04:09:11,290 --> 04:09:13,440
those opposed

4142
04:09:13,440 --> 04:09:16,060
I am opposed in principle I guess okay so the

4143
04:09:16,060 --> 04:09:18,760
amendment carries ... now back to the motion to refer

4144
04:09:18,760 --> 04:09:21,620
as amended accounts for young and then I'd like to

4145
04:09:21,620 --> 04:09:26,760
add myself and then councillor Thornton Joe

4146
04:09:26,760 --> 04:09:31,650
thank you I'm I'm ... wrestling with the ... with

4147
04:09:31,650 --> 04:09:34,410
the motion on the floor

4148
04:09:34,410 --> 04:09:37,360
a little bit

4149
04:09:37,360 --> 04:09:42,010
I I think it does hit the main the main

4150
04:09:42,010 --> 04:09:44,570
issue ...

4151
04:09:44,570 --> 04:09:48,230
obviously a lot of issues have been raised for us

4152
04:09:48,740 --> 04:09:54,780
... the ... the DRA report with public comments ...

4153
04:09:54,780 --> 04:10:00,000
raised concerns about the project not being necessary

4154
04:10:00,000 --> 04:10:04,890
or that they preferred the current configuration of the London

4155
04:10:04,890 --> 04:10:10,740
drugs block or that there's been enough building

4156
04:10:10,740 --> 04:10:13,950
... in the neighborhood and people are tired of it

4157
04:10:14,310 --> 04:10:18,360
or that ... starlight is not a good term rental

4158
04:10:18,360 --> 04:10:19,910
manager

4159
04:10:19,910 --> 04:10:24,620
those those are issues that

4160
04:10:24,620 --> 04:10:28,690
I don't I don't think we can really ... address

4161
04:10:28,720 --> 04:10:33,950
in in ... a decision ... it is true there's

4162
04:10:33,950 --> 04:10:37,190
been a lot of building and Victoria lately but ...

4163
04:10:37,810 --> 04:10:41,380
and it is true it's hard to drive around the

4164
04:10:41,380 --> 04:10:43,740
downtown without to

4165
04:10:43,740 --> 04:10:47,480
bumping into lanes that are closed for construction but ...

4166
04:10:47,480 --> 04:10:51,000
that's just the nature of how

4167
04:10:51,000 --> 04:10:55,420
the development proceeds it's seems to ... seems to come

4168
04:10:55,480 --> 04:10:58,090
in in waves

4169
04:10:58,090 --> 04:11:02,580
... certainly having been this is my second London drugs

4170
04:11:02,610 --> 04:11:07,300
rezoning and ... at the time of the first one

4171
04:11:07,300 --> 04:11:09,770
it was felt there was a concern that London drugs

4172
04:11:09,770 --> 04:11:13,720
was in fact to suburban type development it's it's it's

4173
04:11:13,750 --> 04:11:18,240
basically a big store with parking in front of it

4174
04:11:18,740 --> 04:11:22,580
that people ... felt at that time might be more

4175
04:11:23,430 --> 04:11:27,600
suitable to a suburban area ... it was on the

4176
04:11:27,600 --> 04:11:30,660
fringes of downtown it seems to have been quite successful

4177
04:11:30,660 --> 04:11:33,980
people like it ... but perhaps it is true that

4178
04:11:33,980 --> 04:11:39,580
it's time now ... to ... to move on

4179
04:11:39,580 --> 04:11:41,100


4180
04:11:41,100 --> 04:11:48,530
I guess what might be my reservations about the motion

4181
04:11:48,530 --> 04:11:52,010
to refer in this farm

4182
04:11:52,010 --> 04:11:57,180
is that it is not providing a lot of guidance

4183
04:11:57,180 --> 04:11:59,370
to the developer

4184
04:11:59,370 --> 04:12:03,990
in terms of how to how to achieve that

4185
04:12:03,990 --> 04:12:10,060
... and ... that's partly because there's an inconsistency of

4186
04:12:10,140 --> 04:12:15,510
a split on council and ... a number of of

4187
04:12:15,510 --> 04:12:20,990
... my colleagues have expressed their desire for more affordability

4188
04:12:21,560 --> 04:12:26,170
... within the project and that of course means ...

4189
04:12:26,410 --> 04:12:33,130
in essence that some some kind of ... the developer

4190
04:12:33,330 --> 04:12:39,170
according to ... certainly according to the land left analysis

4191
04:12:39,170 --> 04:12:43,380
is going to require more density rather than last

4192
04:12:43,380 --> 04:12:48,120
I would say I'm more in the school of councillor

4193
04:12:48,120 --> 04:12:49,990
Thornton Joe

4194
04:12:49,990 --> 04:12:54,900
... suggested and again this reflects exactly a comment from

4195
04:12:54,930 --> 04:13:00,650
the ... Coriolis consultant ... which is that a lot

4196
04:13:00,650 --> 04:13:04,440
of this density we are told this is because we

4197
04:13:04,440 --> 04:13:10,270
are requiring a this project to be entirely rental

4198
04:13:10,270 --> 04:13:15,710
I am by no means clear that by the time

4199
04:13:16,270 --> 04:13:20,090
the developer is facing a decision to build that the

4200
04:13:20,090 --> 04:13:24,390
current situation of there being a lot of demand for

4201
04:13:24,390 --> 04:13:29,710
rental and fairly robust rental rates is still going to

4202
04:13:29,710 --> 04:13:34,630
apply I think it it may well be that ...

4203
04:13:34,660 --> 04:13:38,210
that the lady is a lot longer than we think

4204
04:13:38,210 --> 04:13:41,740
it will be easy ... perhaps indefinite in in the

4205
04:13:41,740 --> 04:13:44,690
sense that at some point the owner will come back

4206
04:13:44,690 --> 04:13:48,710
and say we just can't builders there's not enough interest

4207
04:13:48,710 --> 04:13:53,350
in rental ... and and ... given the densities even

4208
04:13:53,350 --> 04:13:57,810
the densities that are there ... we can't we can't

4209
04:13:57,810 --> 04:13:59,190
achieve it

4210
04:13:59,190 --> 04:14:03,570
so and and

4211
04:14:03,570 --> 04:14:05,880
and as I say that the problem is that there's

4212
04:14:05,880 --> 04:14:11,660
a split on council at the moment between those who

4213
04:14:11,660 --> 04:14:14,450
... maybe people prepared to live with a density but

4214
04:14:14,450 --> 04:14:20,090
want more affordability and ... those who feel well maybe

4215
04:14:20,090 --> 04:14:26,730
of a mixed up proposal who with some ... condominiums

4216
04:14:26,730 --> 04:14:30,920
oops under one of these affordable condominium programs and less

4217
04:14:30,920 --> 04:14:34,940
rental might allow the developer to proceed with the project

4218
04:14:35,480 --> 04:14:37,010
...

4219
04:14:37,010 --> 04:14:39,340
at

4220
04:14:39,340 --> 04:14:41,670
at a at a lower density and then the other

4221
04:14:41,670 --> 04:14:44,820
alternative of course is to

4222
04:14:44,820 --> 04:14:49,030
... really put our planning staff's feet to the fire

4223
04:14:49,030 --> 04:14:51,870
and ask them that the same question and I did

4224
04:14:51,870 --> 04:14:57,560
ask ms Wayne earlier ... but perhaps they could give

4225
04:14:57,620 --> 04:15:02,700
... further consideration to which is ... would the eastern

4226
04:15:02,700 --> 04:15:06,740
most of block after block that phase one stand on

4227
04:15:06,740 --> 04:15:10,510
its own and would they be prepared to recommend that

4228
04:15:10,910 --> 04:15:16,830
and come forward with a recommendation on ... that block

4229
04:15:16,860 --> 04:15:21,370
alone and leave the entire issue of the nine hundred

4230
04:15:21,370 --> 04:15:26,390
block ... up in the air ... and I I

4231
04:15:26,390 --> 04:15:28,280
don't know whether

4232
04:15:28,280 --> 04:15:31,590
... whether that is ... direction that in the end

4233
04:15:31,590 --> 04:15:33,430
council might

4234
04:15:33,430 --> 04:15:36,310
might need to go

4235
04:15:36,310 --> 04:15:39,850
... hi I. E. hi I did have a bit

4236
04:15:39,850 --> 04:15:44,180
of discussion with the DRA board about about this ...

4237
04:15:45,040 --> 04:15:49,590
the public open space and perhaps not quite enough attention

4238
04:15:49,590 --> 04:15:53,420
has been paid to it I suggested that the D.

4239
04:15:53,420 --> 04:15:56,610
R. A.'s most recent letter did indicate they had a

4240
04:15:56,610 --> 04:15:58,270
concern

4241
04:15:58,270 --> 04:16:03,520
... that this space would turn into essentially ... Caperton

4242
04:16:04,060 --> 04:16:08,450
sidewalk cafeterias spilling out from restaurants ...

4243
04:16:08,450 --> 04:16:12,120
adjunct to retail space of course and so forth and

4244
04:16:12,120 --> 04:16:16,640
would not actually present as usable public open space

4245
04:16:16,640 --> 04:16:19,580
... there's also the whole issue of the management of

4246
04:16:19,620 --> 04:16:23,760
the space and what exactly a public right of way

4247
04:16:23,760 --> 04:16:27,240
means ...

4248
04:16:27,240 --> 04:16:31,490
I just confirmed on the way over here from

4249
04:16:31,490 --> 04:16:36,690
the city hall that indeed as just one example our

4250
04:16:36,690 --> 04:16:42,980
regulations on the CRD's regulations on smoking in public parks

4251
04:16:42,980 --> 04:16:47,940
are are not very vigorously enforced ... and do you

4252
04:16:47,940 --> 04:16:50,560
know on on any day you can say see people

4253
04:16:50,560 --> 04:16:55,360
smoking in the parks are bylaw staff and police have

4254
04:16:55,360 --> 04:16:58,450
a lot more to do than ... ticketing people for

4255
04:16:58,450 --> 04:16:59,940
smoking

4256
04:16:59,940 --> 04:17:04,060
a private manager would just say to those individuals ...

4257
04:17:04,090 --> 04:17:07,870
you must leave there's no smoking here but I can't

4258
04:17:07,870 --> 04:17:09,440
arrest you but

4259
04:17:09,440 --> 04:17:12,440
you can you can't be here and that would apply

4260
04:17:12,440 --> 04:17:15,640
to a whole lot of behaviors like

4261
04:17:15,640 --> 04:17:20,440
camping for example ... that we as a city either

4262
04:17:20,440 --> 04:17:23,820
do cannot or choose not to enforce ... but a

4263
04:17:23,820 --> 04:17:29,770
private owner of a publicly accessible space ... might want

4264
04:17:29,770 --> 04:17:33,200
to enforce in and indeed surrounding residents might want to

4265
04:17:33,200 --> 04:17:35,020
see in force

4266
04:17:35,020 --> 04:17:38,950
... so I think the the issue of how the

4267
04:17:39,410 --> 04:17:43,280
public open space is to be managed as well as

4268
04:17:43,280 --> 04:17:47,840
the design of it ... needs ... some more ...

4269
04:17:47,840 --> 04:17:54,520
consideration ... in the end I will ...

4270
04:17:54,520 --> 04:18:02,560
probably support this referral motion but I'm very conscious that

4271
04:18:02,980 --> 04:18:05,300
it's ...

4272
04:18:05,300 --> 04:18:08,840
it leaves open the whole issue of how it is

4273
04:18:08,870 --> 04:18:10,870
to be achieved

4274
04:18:10,870 --> 04:18:17,680
... and what response the developer will come back with

4275
04:18:18,180 --> 04:18:20,560
and I

4276
04:18:20,560 --> 04:18:22,860
a

4277
04:18:22,860 --> 04:18:24,130


4278
04:18:24,130 --> 04:18:28,200
I don't think it's worth my suggesting at this moment

4279
04:18:28,260 --> 04:18:29,480
that

4280
04:18:29,480 --> 04:18:31,970
we would be

4281
04:18:31,970 --> 04:18:35,740
entertain more condominiums because I don't think that would be

4282
04:18:35,740 --> 04:18:40,510
supported by council I think ... requirement for more affordability

4283
04:18:40,510 --> 04:18:43,370
would be working in the opposite direction

4284
04:18:43,370 --> 04:18:46,460
... and it's even possible as I say that we

4285
04:18:46,460 --> 04:18:49,750
might we might see the developer come back with a

4286
04:18:49,750 --> 04:18:55,320
split up proposal so in the end I am for

4287
04:18:55,320 --> 04:18:58,560
reasons that I think my colleagues have

4288
04:18:58,560 --> 04:19:02,670
have a dress I think there is just a little

4289
04:19:02,670 --> 04:19:05,150
bit too much density here I think there's a lot

4290
04:19:05,150 --> 04:19:08,650
of promise in the proposal I'd like the idea of

4291
04:19:08,650 --> 04:19:11,730
the public space in the downtown which as you said

4292
04:19:11,730 --> 04:19:16,950
mayor helps is is very badly needed ... and I

4293
04:19:16,950 --> 04:19:19,580
think we do have to be careful about it exactly

4294
04:19:19,580 --> 04:19:25,230
how it's designed and and managed ... meant to nail

4295
04:19:25,230 --> 04:19:30,860
those things down ... at this moment ... I am

4296
04:19:30,900 --> 04:19:34,230
I I think there is I am basically I I

4297
04:19:34,230 --> 04:19:38,200
think I think we received some thoughtful feedback that the

4298
04:19:38,200 --> 04:19:41,930
heights I just a little more than than people want

4299
04:19:41,930 --> 04:19:45,160
to see we've we've so far we have not had

4300
04:19:45,160 --> 04:19:49,530
a lot of objections to height in the downtown ...

4301
04:19:49,600 --> 04:19:52,540
but I I think it we were starting to I

4302
04:19:52,540 --> 04:19:56,050
think ... get some push back people are starting to

4303
04:19:56,050 --> 04:20:00,210
feel maybe we're going a little bit too far with

4304
04:20:00,210 --> 04:20:03,920
heights and densities hello we are all well aware of

4305
04:20:03,920 --> 04:20:09,200
the of the benefits of of those high towers ...

4306
04:20:09,470 --> 04:20:14,040
but hi I think on balance time ... I'm going

4307
04:20:14,040 --> 04:20:16,190
to ...

4308
04:20:16,190 --> 04:20:19,730
support this motion to refer okay thank you on the

4309
04:20:19,730 --> 04:20:21,690
motion to refer I've got councillor Thornton Joe and then

4310
04:20:21,690 --> 04:20:24,710
myself councillor Joe go ahead

4311
04:20:24,710 --> 04:20:27,630
do we deal with move the time at two oh

4312
04:20:27,630 --> 04:20:29,450
yes thank you for reminding me I thought yes we

4313
04:20:29,450 --> 04:20:31,550
need a motion to extend the meeting till three thirty

4314
04:20:31,550 --> 04:20:33,480
I think would be reasonable councillor Thornton Joe is there

4315
04:20:33,480 --> 04:20:36,500
a seconder second by councillor Potts all those in favor

4316
04:20:36,500 --> 04:20:40,420
of so doing any opposed thanks councillor Joe so I'd

4317
04:20:40,420 --> 04:20:44,940
like to add an amendment ...

4318
04:20:44,940 --> 04:20:48,000
and that will be the

4319
04:20:48,000 --> 04:20:53,320
meeting with the D. R. A.

4320
04:20:53,320 --> 04:20:56,070
land use committee

4321
04:20:56,070 --> 04:20:58,700
so that number 3

4322
04:20:58,700 --> 04:21:00,570
sorry

4323
04:21:00,570 --> 04:21:04,110
to confirm that a plazas the most desired amenity amenity

4324
04:21:04,110 --> 04:21:05,720
for

4325
04:21:05,720 --> 04:21:07,640
the neighborhood

4326
04:21:07,640 --> 04:21:09,770
okay any discussion

4327
04:21:09,770 --> 04:21:11,300
and just

4328
04:21:11,300 --> 04:21:14,750
just a quick leave on that is that ... if

4329
04:21:14,750 --> 04:21:18,390
the land use committee feel that they're excited about this

4330
04:21:18,390 --> 04:21:20,220
and then I can support this from from what I

4331
04:21:20,700 --> 04:21:24,030
read in their letter ...

4332
04:21:24,030 --> 04:21:27,710
that they are looking for more they have no parks

4333
04:21:27,710 --> 04:21:32,120
no playgrounds dog runs ... and so those are the

4334
04:21:32,120 --> 04:21:35,020
things that they mentioned that that they would so if

4335
04:21:35,070 --> 04:21:38,720
anything could be achieved I'd like to know

4336
04:21:38,720 --> 04:21:42,300
any further discussion councillor Loveday

4337
04:21:42,300 --> 04:21:44,500
yeah on this

4338
04:21:44,500 --> 04:21:47,020
was the discussion

4339
04:21:47,020 --> 04:21:52,240
with the applicant about about this plaza being

4340
04:21:52,240 --> 04:21:57,060
park instead of a plaza

4341
04:21:57,060 --> 04:21:59,650
I am through the mayor of the the policy direction

4342
04:21:59,680 --> 04:22:02,800
... just a few lights that ... an open plaza

4343
04:22:02,830 --> 04:22:06,750
she private provided in this location so urban plazas but

4344
04:22:06,750 --> 04:22:09,970
I. nature ... ... do tend to have more hot

4345
04:22:09,970 --> 04:22:13,720
scape and green space ... say the policy doesn't really

4346
04:22:13,780 --> 04:22:17,370
direct ... stuff one way or another ... into in

4347
04:22:17,370 --> 04:22:22,640
terms of leaning towards more green space ... expenses question

4348
04:22:22,640 --> 04:22:28,120
was there any discussion regarding the

4349
04:22:28,120 --> 04:22:31,870
ownership of the space ... like by the city rather

4350
04:22:31,870 --> 04:22:34,900
than the applicant has a

4351
04:22:34,900 --> 04:22:40,600
like as a park public space

4352
04:22:40,600 --> 04:22:46,200
there it is yeah

4353
04:22:46,200 --> 04:22:47,280
I'm

4354
04:22:47,280 --> 04:22:49,580
through the mayor that there wasn't actually discussion but in

4355
04:22:49,580 --> 04:22:55,260
the past there's a continuous parkades underneath the ... plaza

4356
04:22:55,260 --> 04:22:59,260
area which we often end up there's a liability in

4357
04:22:59,260 --> 04:23:02,530
the construction and maintenance and I'm trying of membranes becomes

4358
04:23:02,530 --> 04:23:04,900
quite a challenge

4359
04:23:04,900 --> 04:23:06,470
right

4360
04:23:06,470 --> 04:23:09,390
I think I do support this amendment okay thank you

4361
04:23:09,390 --> 04:23:12,160
... I don't support this amendment ... because I'm hoping

4362
04:23:12,160 --> 04:23:15,410
the whole referral motion will fail ... in which case

4363
04:23:15,410 --> 04:23:18,510
I have prepared an amendment to the main motion ...

4364
04:23:18,510 --> 04:23:20,230
will because I agree with the comments that have been

4365
04:23:20,230 --> 04:23:22,140
made about it needing to be more park like and

4366
04:23:22,140 --> 04:23:24,960
I also agree with cancer Loveday's comments that we need

4367
04:23:24,960 --> 04:23:27,400
to know now ... more what it will look like

4368
04:23:27,400 --> 04:23:29,370
in and holding that so if if this fails on

4369
04:23:29,370 --> 04:23:31,850
the referral motion fails I would make an amendment to

4370
04:23:31,850 --> 04:23:34,160
the main motion that's request of the public plaza be

4371
04:23:34,160 --> 04:23:38,140
more park like and the DP for the plaza be

4372
04:23:38,140 --> 04:23:42,140
required ... now with an expiration date time to the

4373
04:23:42,140 --> 04:23:44,650
proposed build out of phase two because it mitigates the

4374
04:23:44,650 --> 04:23:47,530
risk of the two year DP I and it gives

4375
04:23:47,530 --> 04:23:49,540
us control and it makes it more park like but

4376
04:23:49,540 --> 04:23:52,450
I don't support of this motion on the amendment rather

4377
04:23:52,450 --> 04:23:54,980
counter and ... go ahead just have a quick question

4378
04:23:54,980 --> 04:23:58,950
if this motion passes doesn't mean that ... that's the

4379
04:23:58,950 --> 04:24:01,290
end of this discussion

4380
04:24:01,290 --> 04:24:03,470
yes if the referral motion passes but right now we're

4381
04:24:03,470 --> 04:24:05,060
only on the amendment so you have to if the

4382
04:24:05,060 --> 04:24:07,530
referral motion passes it just gets referred back to staff

4383
04:24:07,530 --> 04:24:09,570
for right now will be time to comment on that

4384
04:24:09,570 --> 04:24:11,680
right now is great yeah thank you you betcha I'll

4385
04:24:11,680 --> 04:24:13,900
come to you for sure I anyone else on the

4386
04:24:13,900 --> 04:24:18,100
amendment ... councillor young

4387
04:24:18,100 --> 04:24:23,600
well ... supported because it will ... bring the whole

4388
04:24:23,600 --> 04:24:27,670
issue of the plaza back to the T. R. A.

4389
04:24:27,670 --> 04:24:33,190
for discussion a new just maybe should remind my colleagues

4390
04:24:33,220 --> 04:24:36,830
the space we're talking about is is

4391
04:24:36,830 --> 04:24:43,750
about like bastion square ... down below ... Langley down

4392
04:24:43,750 --> 04:24:45,610
to the wharf

4393
04:24:45,610 --> 04:24:49,220
there is an and the the park area would be

4394
04:24:49,550 --> 04:24:52,780
I think probably smaller than the area with the tree

4395
04:24:52,780 --> 04:24:57,660
in the in centennial square so ... hi I don't

4396
04:24:57,660 --> 04:25:01,350
know the extent to which it could actually be enlarged

4397
04:25:01,820 --> 04:25:05,020
certainly the T. R. A. was very concerned that it

4398
04:25:05,020 --> 04:25:11,550
would be encroached upon by commercial activity ...

4399
04:25:11,550 --> 04:25:17,060
the two cafeterias and retail and so forth but ...

4400
04:25:17,130 --> 04:25:21,260
and of course it's sitting above the parkades so there's

4401
04:25:21,260 --> 04:25:24,560
a limit out bigotry you can plant I guess

4402
04:25:24,560 --> 04:25:27,600
... and also that would make it pretty complicated for

4403
04:25:27,600 --> 04:25:31,210
the city the onus is our staff told us

4404
04:25:31,210 --> 04:25:35,130
... but eight Hicks I I I think given the

4405
04:25:35,130 --> 04:25:40,280
size of the place we are talking about a pretty

4406
04:25:40,310 --> 04:25:45,150
... constrained area and I think the DRA desire for

4407
04:25:45,280 --> 04:25:49,490
parks and dog runs ... would have to be satisfied

4408
04:25:49,490 --> 04:25:50,940
using

4409
04:25:50,940 --> 04:25:55,890
other other sites any other comments on the amendment

4410
04:25:55,890 --> 04:25:59,610
all those in favor of the amendment any opposed none

4411
04:25:59,610 --> 04:26:02,880
opposed okay councillor Joe you still have the floor yeah

4412
04:26:03,030 --> 04:26:06,340
... thank you and I did want to add to

4413
04:26:06,340 --> 04:26:07,990
them and ... but I just wanna mention accounts are

4414
04:26:07,990 --> 04:26:12,040
young and if the plazas what time works best them

4415
04:26:12,310 --> 04:26:16,250
will know from DRA but I've seen a small dog

4416
04:26:16,360 --> 04:26:21,530
runs and Manhattan and I've seen other uses that place

4417
04:26:21,530 --> 04:26:25,900
structures and smaller spaces so I think ... creativity could

4418
04:26:25,900 --> 04:26:29,440
be achieved through here ... so I'm my next amendment

4419
04:26:29,440 --> 04:26:31,930
and I'm looks like we're both if if it a

4420
04:26:31,930 --> 04:26:34,230
second I'd like to I'd be happy to speak a

4421
04:26:34,230 --> 04:26:37,370
little bit more but I would that theme ... more

4422
04:26:37,370 --> 04:26:41,740
affordable units being considered

4423
04:26:41,740 --> 04:26:44,210
moved and seconded this is the second time yeah I

4424
04:26:44,210 --> 04:26:48,180
I understand councillor young saying ... by having the more

4425
04:26:48,180 --> 04:26:51,780
for ability may mean that they are them anymore high

4426
04:26:51,880 --> 04:26:56,120
... they need ... something but I also have seen

4427
04:26:56,150 --> 04:27:00,650
... the creativity in months the development community where there's

4428
04:27:00,650 --> 04:27:05,450
some partnerships with the ... island health or BC housing

4429
04:27:05,450 --> 04:27:10,200
or a nonprofit and so I believe that it can

4430
04:27:10,200 --> 04:27:13,680
be done or at least discussions can be held up

4431
04:27:13,680 --> 04:27:16,780
to see if the more affordability ... can be cheap

4432
04:27:17,110 --> 04:27:21,720
... as the DR is letters sent um well basically

4433
04:27:21,720 --> 04:27:26,300
we're getting one point five percent ... affordable housing so

4434
04:27:26,300 --> 04:27:30,660
twenty three affordable housing out of fifteen hundred and as

4435
04:27:30,660 --> 04:27:33,140
councillor Loveday ... I think was because I loved their

4436
04:27:33,140 --> 04:27:37,110
councillor I said ... we're losing fifteen affordable units so

4437
04:27:37,110 --> 04:27:40,410
basically we're getting and that gain of eight of for

4438
04:27:40,410 --> 04:27:44,460
the so that that concerns me soon any opportunity to

4439
04:27:44,460 --> 04:27:48,380
get a few more affordable units some partnerships ... is

4440
04:27:48,380 --> 04:27:50,870
something that I would like to see and I know

4441
04:27:50,870 --> 04:27:55,440
... ... comes mayor helps is so

4442
04:27:55,440 --> 04:27:57,850
... she will be able to support the whole thing

4443
04:27:58,080 --> 04:28:02,120
because of the referral ... but I I would not

4444
04:28:02,120 --> 04:28:05,040
be able to support it going to public hearing ...

4445
04:28:05,070 --> 04:28:08,960
at all at this point ... without well then I

4446
04:28:08,960 --> 04:28:11,460
do believe more work needs to be done

4447
04:28:11,460 --> 04:28:15,200
thank you to seconder want to make any comments

4448
04:28:15,200 --> 04:28:19,230
okay I'll make a comment on this one ... hi

4449
04:28:19,430 --> 04:28:23,130
we can we cannot ask for a fictional project to

4450
04:28:23,130 --> 04:28:25,630
be built so we're we're asking for less height and

4451
04:28:25,630 --> 04:28:28,420
density and more affordability we heard from the land left

4452
04:28:28,420 --> 04:28:30,560
with the reason that they need the point five percent

4453
04:28:30,590 --> 04:28:35,200
... ... ... increase in density point five FSR above

4454
04:28:35,200 --> 04:28:39,210
the OCP is because of the affordable units now I

4455
04:28:39,210 --> 04:28:42,090
do think that we should have a motion that it

4456
04:28:42,090 --> 04:28:44,800
goes forward to public hearing subject to more affordable units

4457
04:28:44,800 --> 04:28:47,980
that means less profit for the developer that's okay ...

4458
04:28:48,030 --> 04:28:50,600
but but that this doesn't actually make sense from an

4459
04:28:50,600 --> 04:28:54,000
economic point of view we heard that without that ...

4460
04:28:54,000 --> 04:28:56,400
point five list above the OCP which we said we're

4461
04:28:56,400 --> 04:28:59,970
open to OCP amendments that offer more than just ...

4462
04:29:00,000 --> 04:29:02,330
what the OCP is supposed to and so we can

4463
04:29:02,330 --> 04:29:03,940
push them a bit more on that but we can't

4464
04:29:03,940 --> 04:29:06,100
push them for more affordable units if we're taking away

4465
04:29:06,100 --> 04:29:09,030
the height and density economically it doesn't make sense and

4466
04:29:09,030 --> 04:29:10,900
it and it goes against the spirit of the kinds

4467
04:29:10,900 --> 04:29:13,430
of policies that we've been saying that were supportive of

4468
04:29:13,430 --> 04:29:16,730
so again I I don't support this because I would

4469
04:29:16,730 --> 04:29:19,580
prefer we had subject more affordable units to the main

4470
04:29:19,580 --> 04:29:22,790
motion not to this referral motion it's because this can't

4471
04:29:22,790 --> 04:29:26,150
yeah councillor Loveday

4472
04:29:26,150 --> 04:29:29,600
yeah I think I think it is

4473
04:29:29,600 --> 04:29:33,960
reasonable to request more affordable units on this proposal it

4474
04:29:33,960 --> 04:29:36,470
is a these are

4475
04:29:36,470 --> 04:29:39,960
they will be the tallest buildings in the city it

4476
04:29:39,960 --> 04:29:44,430
is a great increase in density over ... over the

4477
04:29:44,430 --> 04:29:50,470
OCP and ... and height and ... I think we

4478
04:29:50,470 --> 04:29:53,930
want a development of this size that has a good

4479
04:29:53,930 --> 04:29:58,040
news that ... if approved would contribute a massive amount

4480
04:29:58,040 --> 04:30:00,650
of new housing ... which is a good thing in

4481
04:30:00,650 --> 04:30:04,410
my opinion ... but we want that housing to reflect

4482
04:30:04,460 --> 04:30:08,010
our community and that means it needs to be diverse

4483
04:30:08,010 --> 04:30:12,020
in its unit mix and diverse in the incomes of

4484
04:30:12,020 --> 04:30:14,690
people who will be able to afford it in if

4485
04:30:14,690 --> 04:30:16,410
we're looking at

4486
04:30:16,410 --> 04:30:19,950
units that are all except for a

4487
04:30:19,950 --> 04:30:23,210
you know what is essentially a handful ... in the

4488
04:30:23,210 --> 04:30:26,890
current proposal ... over to you know if a one

4489
04:30:26,890 --> 04:30:29,590
bedroom is going to be twenty three hundred dollars or

4490
04:30:29,590 --> 04:30:32,010
something for rent like if you if that's a third

4491
04:30:32,010 --> 04:30:34,720
of your income you need to be making sixty six

4492
04:30:34,720 --> 04:30:37,650
hundred dollars a month and and that that isn't in

4493
04:30:37,650 --> 04:30:40,560
line with the needs of our community so ... I

4494
04:30:40,560 --> 04:30:43,550
think we do need to make sure that this is

4495
04:30:43,580 --> 04:30:45,440
in line with the needs of our community and that

4496
04:30:45,440 --> 04:30:50,470
means diversity across the unit sizes and the cost just

4497
04:30:50,470 --> 04:30:52,680
for clarity is ... accounts are also come to a

4498
04:30:52,680 --> 04:30:54,840
moment can you scroll up so we can see the

4499
04:30:54,840 --> 04:30:57,670
whole thing because I just wanna I don't disagree with

4500
04:30:57,670 --> 04:31:01,170
anything that councillor Loveday just said at all but but

4501
04:31:01,170 --> 04:31:03,680
this it's the motion to refer is that the application

4502
04:31:03,680 --> 04:31:05,900
be referred to staff to work with the applicant rivers

4503
04:31:05,990 --> 04:31:09,620
revise the application have greater consistency with the OCP particularly

4504
04:31:09,620 --> 04:31:12,220
as it pertains the height of towers and density so

4505
04:31:12,220 --> 04:31:15,400
we're saying be consistent with the OCP and provide more

4506
04:31:15,400 --> 04:31:19,030
affordability and unit next on on something where is our

4507
04:31:19,030 --> 04:31:22,110
policy says he were looking to ... we're we're open

4508
04:31:22,110 --> 04:31:25,230
to things above the OCP if they provide extremities so

4509
04:31:25,540 --> 04:31:28,490
I agree with counselor Loveday but this this motion as

4510
04:31:28,490 --> 04:31:32,100
were amending the referral motion doesn't in my opinion can't

4511
04:31:32,100 --> 04:31:34,520
actually achieve what we're asking for but that will be

4512
04:31:34,520 --> 04:31:36,580
the will of the table ... counts are also on

4513
04:31:36,580 --> 04:31:38,300
the amendment

4514
04:31:38,300 --> 04:31:41,120
well I was gonna say pretty much the same thing

4515
04:31:41,120 --> 04:31:43,440
... I do support the amendment of course but I

4516
04:31:43,440 --> 04:31:46,130
think all these amendments are in the wrong place I

4517
04:31:46,130 --> 04:31:49,790
don't support the referral and ... I would be happy

4518
04:31:49,790 --> 04:31:52,950
to actually have each of these amendments attached to the

4519
04:31:52,950 --> 04:31:57,310
original motion as subsequent conditions indeed many letters that are

4520
04:31:57,310 --> 04:32:01,630
already there ... so I'm going to support the amendment

4521
04:32:01,630 --> 04:32:04,580
because I think the amendment is sound in its substance

4522
04:32:04,970 --> 04:32:08,120
but I don't think any of these amendments are appropriate

4523
04:32:08,150 --> 04:32:11,660
in a referral motion which contains them and in fact

4524
04:32:11,660 --> 04:32:14,590
constricts them in a way which makes it virtually impossible

4525
04:32:14,590 --> 04:32:17,290
to accomplish so what I'm going to support the amendment

4526
04:32:17,290 --> 04:32:20,310
because substantially sound but I'm certainly not gonna refer over

4527
04:32:20,310 --> 04:32:23,290
support the motion to refer and I hope that's defeated

4528
04:32:23,290 --> 04:32:25,640
that we can then have an opportunity to add motions

4529
04:32:25,640 --> 04:32:29,670
or amendments like these that to the other original motion

4530
04:32:29,670 --> 04:32:32,870
thank you I councillor Dubow on the amendment ... thanks

4531
04:32:32,870 --> 04:32:36,890
mayor helps I I do support the amendment on

4532
04:32:36,890 --> 04:32:45,070
oval of policies in place why not and require and

4533
04:32:45,070 --> 04:32:49,410
for a full house in and but

4534
04:32:49,410 --> 04:32:53,910
no one stops the private developers to come forward ...

4535
04:32:54,010 --> 04:32:57,790
and and do the number is ... and tried to

4536
04:32:58,450 --> 04:33:05,150
and provide affordable housing because the housing needs in Victoria

4537
04:33:05,150 --> 04:33:09,550
and the target these two thousand one hundred and affordable

4538
04:33:09,550 --> 04:33:13,390
and below market rentals and target and that is not

4539
04:33:13,390 --> 04:33:15,830
even not knowing

4540
04:33:15,830 --> 04:33:19,280
after two thousand sixteen what is the need because it

4541
04:33:19,280 --> 04:33:22,030
the last housing need is the sense is that we

4542
04:33:22,030 --> 04:33:26,850
look towards two thousand sixteen and call the ninety nine

4543
04:33:27,300 --> 04:33:32,660
and everything else has increase the the need for more

4544
04:33:33,000 --> 04:33:38,140
affordable and low market rates ... and this does not

4545
04:33:38,140 --> 04:33:43,470
to fit the our target ... our ... and what

4546
04:33:43,470 --> 04:33:45,550
we want to I. T. for the community because this

4547
04:33:45,550 --> 04:33:50,590
is a massive project ... and what we can do

4548
04:33:50,620 --> 04:33:55,380
is to demand more for for the public although I

4549
04:33:55,380 --> 04:34:00,210
would policies doesn't give us those tools but said in

4550
04:34:00,420 --> 04:34:04,410
the in the OCP eight speak social cohesion on other

4551
04:34:04,410 --> 04:34:09,350
things at least ... we cooked and

4552
04:34:09,350 --> 04:34:11,630
precisely a

4553
04:34:11,630 --> 04:34:15,090
upside of the land use we could we could it

4554
04:34:15,090 --> 04:34:19,020
is fair enough to demand more in such a massive

4555
04:34:19,050 --> 04:34:22,840
project so I do support the amendment I know also

4556
04:34:22,840 --> 04:34:26,830
I support the amendment to the federal

4557
04:34:26,830 --> 04:34:29,700
the motion to refer okay thank you any further discussion

4558
04:34:29,700 --> 04:34:31,440
on the amendment

4559
04:34:31,440 --> 04:34:33,500
yes councillor isn't

4560
04:34:33,500 --> 04:34:37,210
I support the amendment

4561
04:34:37,210 --> 04:34:40,210
since the debate is expanding a bit to the main

4562
04:34:40,210 --> 04:34:43,390
motion I think I do think this is the appropriate

4563
04:34:43,480 --> 04:34:46,800
place to put the direction I think this because of

4564
04:34:46,800 --> 04:34:51,080
how this application over reaches I think it requires substantially

4565
04:34:51,080 --> 04:34:54,760
more than superficial changes and moving it along to a

4566
04:34:54,760 --> 04:34:59,000
public hearing is it doesn't I think allow sufficient space

4567
04:34:59,000 --> 04:35:02,400
for deliberation and revisions to occur so I think this

4568
04:35:02,400 --> 04:35:05,360
actually does have to go back to staff rather than

4569
04:35:05,360 --> 04:35:07,990
forwards to a public hearing

4570
04:35:07,990 --> 04:35:11,850
thank you on the amendment any further discussion okay all

4571
04:35:11,850 --> 04:35:15,310
those in favor of the amendment any opposed okay I'm

4572
04:35:15,310 --> 04:35:18,270
opposed councillor young as opposed councillor Joe I believe you

4573
04:35:18,270 --> 04:35:20,480
have one more and Isabel could you mind just for

4574
04:35:20,610 --> 04:35:23,370
making a double it's not even no I I think

4575
04:35:23,370 --> 04:35:26,100
of my other ones some

4576
04:35:26,100 --> 04:35:27,750
I

4577
04:35:27,750 --> 04:35:30,800
and changes the other one was to consider a condominium

4578
04:35:30,800 --> 04:35:32,390
but

4579
04:35:32,390 --> 04:35:34,760
I think I'll leave that one out and maybe the

4580
04:35:34,760 --> 04:35:38,060
applicants as I'm sure is listening and may hear that

4581
04:35:38,060 --> 04:35:39,460
but I don't think it needs to be part of

4582
04:35:39,460 --> 04:35:43,710
the motion and the other one was regarding the ...

4583
04:35:43,870 --> 04:35:45,780
the the height of the

4584
04:35:45,780 --> 04:35:48,470
the towers in which case it's already in there but

4585
04:35:48,470 --> 04:35:50,530
I will put my hand up for the main motion

4586
04:35:50,560 --> 04:35:53,100
okay thank you ...

4587
04:35:53,100 --> 04:35:54,330
well the

4588
04:35:54,330 --> 04:35:56,100
this is the main motion this is the motion to

4589
04:35:56,100 --> 04:35:58,800
refer well that's the main motion has been superseded by

4590
04:35:58,800 --> 04:36:01,150
the motion to refer okay so I don't have any

4591
04:36:01,320 --> 04:36:05,710
other amendments okay ... but I will support this ...

4592
04:36:06,370 --> 04:36:11,850
the customer I said said ... to achieve greater consistency

4593
04:36:11,850 --> 04:36:16,410
so doesn't say ... data has to be right with

4594
04:36:16,410 --> 04:36:19,720
the OCP and up and the heightened density but get

4595
04:36:19,750 --> 04:36:23,160
closer to the consistency so perhaps something can be done

4596
04:36:23,160 --> 04:36:26,150
as you I think you mentioned that perhaps ... they

4597
04:36:26,150 --> 04:36:30,710
will achieve less ... ... proceeds serve by making some

4598
04:36:30,710 --> 04:36:34,610
of these changes ... but I would rather be go

4599
04:36:34,610 --> 04:36:36,760
back to staff go back to the applicant come back

4600
04:36:36,760 --> 04:36:40,420
to council to ... to review the changes if there

4601
04:36:40,420 --> 04:36:43,200
is any ... because I still think it's too early

4602
04:36:43,200 --> 04:36:46,090
to go to public hearing okay thank you I've got

4603
04:36:46,090 --> 04:36:48,490
myself next and then councillor Andrew on the motion to

4604
04:36:48,490 --> 04:36:52,180
refer ... I I I don't support this as is

4605
04:36:52,180 --> 04:36:55,320
probably evident by my comments on the amendment ... as

4606
04:36:55,320 --> 04:36:59,010
we've understood through the process ... if this motion to

4607
04:36:59,010 --> 04:37:01,660
refer fails we can amend the main motion to add

4608
04:37:01,660 --> 04:37:04,570
these things to it and anything else we want ...

4609
04:37:04,570 --> 04:37:07,040
the whole process will move forward in terms of legal

4610
04:37:07,040 --> 04:37:10,120
agreements and all of that is a whole alphabet of

4611
04:37:10,150 --> 04:37:13,600
conditions ... and it will already come back to committee

4612
04:37:13,600 --> 04:37:16,230
of the whole ... as part of the OCP referral

4613
04:37:16,230 --> 04:37:21,140
so I just if if we are serious about housing

4614
04:37:21,140 --> 04:37:25,230
and if we're serious about sustainability and climate change ...

4615
04:37:25,420 --> 04:37:27,420
D. as counsel does that I I I kind of

4616
04:37:27,420 --> 04:37:28,980
my eyes kind of popped out when she said this

4617
04:37:28,980 --> 04:37:30,710
is already can take one or two years to get

4618
04:37:30,710 --> 04:37:32,540
the public hearing I hope it's not that long with

4619
04:37:32,540 --> 04:37:35,620
all these conditions but ... but say it does go

4620
04:37:35,620 --> 04:37:38,310
forward are sorry it does go back the referral motion

4621
04:37:38,310 --> 04:37:42,040
passes ... that that prolongs the process and so that

4622
04:37:42,040 --> 04:37:44,660
by the time that this is built ... even the

4623
04:37:44,660 --> 04:37:46,570
market rents are going to be more than they would

4624
04:37:46,570 --> 04:37:48,560
be if it could if it goes forward today so

4625
04:37:48,560 --> 04:37:52,220
every every time we send something back ... by the

4626
04:37:52,220 --> 04:37:54,330
time that first person moves in

4627
04:37:54,330 --> 04:37:57,950
the rents just by by nature ... of the rising

4628
04:37:57,950 --> 04:38:01,140
rents will will be higher ... not to mention the

4629
04:38:01,140 --> 04:38:02,990
fact that there will just be less housing in a

4630
04:38:02,990 --> 04:38:05,110
much needed to ... when we're in a in a

4631
04:38:05,560 --> 04:38:09,220
the housing crisis so I I don't support the referral

4632
04:38:09,220 --> 04:38:12,350
motion and I just ... I I guess I've I've

4633
04:38:12,350 --> 04:38:14,880
followed this application pretty closely as I know we all

4634
04:38:14,880 --> 04:38:18,550
have and I know that staff really struggled with ...

4635
04:38:18,580 --> 04:38:20,280
the

4636
04:38:20,280 --> 04:38:22,120
the with the way that this building is gonna look

4637
04:38:22,120 --> 04:38:25,010
and feel to human but being walking down the street

4638
04:38:25,380 --> 04:38:28,490
and you know they could the the referral motion will

4639
04:38:28,490 --> 04:38:36,330
essentially ... end up with probably ... Vaultier podiums and

4640
04:38:36,330 --> 04:38:38,680
shorter towers like it was that was a good question

4641
04:38:38,680 --> 04:38:41,850
accounts rise asal sure we can chop three point five

4642
04:38:41,880 --> 04:38:46,120
stories off every ... tower but that will mean a

4643
04:38:46,120 --> 04:38:50,870
less human scale experience a less favorable pedestrian experience the

4644
04:38:50,870 --> 04:38:54,970
the public realm will be more deeply impacted if we

4645
04:38:54,970 --> 04:38:57,250
if we do that and then with the proposal going

4646
04:38:57,250 --> 04:38:59,020
for it so I don't support the referral motion but

4647
04:38:59,020 --> 04:39:02,530
I do support these conditions being attached to the main

4648
04:39:02,530 --> 04:39:06,320
motion ... should the referral motion fail accounts are Andrew

4649
04:39:06,320 --> 04:39:08,630
on the motion to refer and then councillor Potts on

4650
04:39:08,630 --> 04:39:12,990
the on the motion to refer hi

4651
04:39:12,990 --> 04:39:16,170
fundamentally a I disagree with the I think it came

4652
04:39:16,170 --> 04:39:19,530
too early because ... I for one didn't get to

4653
04:39:19,530 --> 04:39:22,020
answer my questions and ... I have a number of

4654
04:39:22,400 --> 04:39:24,580
issues in the report that I wanted to go through

4655
04:39:25,000 --> 04:39:27,500
... my only you can ask those now I think

4656
04:39:27,500 --> 04:39:29,610
that if if that will help you decide whether or

4657
04:39:29,610 --> 04:39:31,620
not you can vote on the motion to refer that's

4658
04:39:31,620 --> 04:39:34,740
totally fair game so well I mean from the minute

4659
04:39:34,770 --> 04:39:38,220
I disagree with this ... but I'm now gonna have

4660
04:39:38,220 --> 04:39:40,420
to go through the ...

4661
04:39:40,420 --> 04:39:44,170
I guess the ... the theater of ... ask my

4662
04:39:44,170 --> 04:39:46,980
questions and I'll do that now I just think that

4663
04:39:46,980 --> 04:39:52,030
we we we should ... ... ... defeat the defeat

4664
04:39:52,030 --> 04:39:55,090
it or send it back or whatever but I think

4665
04:39:55,090 --> 04:39:57,060
we could wait on that okay I'm gonna ask my

4666
04:39:57,060 --> 04:40:01,620
questions now ... first question for you is ... staff

4667
04:40:01,620 --> 04:40:05,130
is on ... and I'm just gonna ask some questions

4668
04:40:05,130 --> 04:40:07,790
of ordinance that but I'm only doing that so the

4669
04:40:08,260 --> 04:40:14,640
public can understand where I'm going hopefully my okay

4670
04:40:14,640 --> 04:40:18,630
okay ... one is some the total number of units

4671
04:40:18,630 --> 04:40:20,630
on this development will be watched at the end of

4672
04:40:20,630 --> 04:40:23,870
the day doing project

4673
04:40:23,870 --> 04:40:27,450
the process ... five hundred ten units for this phase

4674
04:40:27,480 --> 04:40:31,450
... fifteen hundred ... in total ... say fifteen hundred

4675
04:40:31,450 --> 04:40:34,020
for the second phase I'll just confirm that number ...

4676
04:40:34,020 --> 04:40:35,890
but I believe it's fifteen hundred for the second and

4677
04:40:35,890 --> 04:40:40,630
third phases okay and what do we expect to be

4678
04:40:40,630 --> 04:40:48,290
the total population living in these ... Hey

4679
04:40:48,290 --> 04:40:51,430
I'm assuming we least one but ... is there a

4680
04:40:51,430 --> 04:40:54,060
rate that we that we know is coming

4681
04:40:54,060 --> 04:40:56,790
we would it would it would really depend on whether

4682
04:40:56,790 --> 04:40:58,540
it's a single

4683
04:40:58,540 --> 04:41:02,230
person nor a couple a couple people so probably four

4684
04:41:02,230 --> 04:41:06,120
thousand to five thousand people and we are and ...

4685
04:41:06,150 --> 04:41:08,880
we based on the mix of I've seen that we

4686
04:41:08,880 --> 04:41:12,380
would see in a significant number of families there sent

4687
04:41:12,380 --> 04:41:13,570
right

4688
04:41:13,570 --> 04:41:15,810
maybe half

4689
04:41:15,810 --> 04:41:17,700
it's hard to say whether it be Hoff of the

4690
04:41:17,730 --> 04:41:21,880
total number but the ... page seven of twenty three

4691
04:41:21,880 --> 04:41:25,180
and the reason report lists the breakdown of the

4692
04:41:25,180 --> 04:41:28,830
... the larger unit is ... for phase one ...

4693
04:41:28,830 --> 04:41:31,840
safe there's a percentage amount table as well and just

4694
04:41:31,840 --> 04:41:33,760
a car from my other point is fifteen hundred units

4695
04:41:33,760 --> 04:41:37,010
total size thousand to a thousand forty five for the

4696
04:41:37,060 --> 04:41:40,470
later phases five and ten for the first face to

4697
04:41:40,470 --> 04:41:45,130
see in amenity or ... the contribution of them ...

4698
04:41:45,160 --> 04:41:46,880
mmhm

4699
04:41:46,880 --> 04:41:48,580
child care

4700
04:41:48,580 --> 04:41:51,800
whom do you think that the do we know what

4701
04:41:51,800 --> 04:41:55,570
size the child care ... the size of the childcare

4702
04:41:55,570 --> 04:41:58,260
spaces gonna be do we know how many

4703
04:41:58,260 --> 04:42:00,930
basements would be available in the childcare no do you

4704
04:42:00,930 --> 04:42:05,410
think it be it it will meet the ... the

4705
04:42:05,410 --> 04:42:08,170
amount of population that's going to be placed in that

4706
04:42:08,170 --> 04:42:10,980
area if this proceeds

4707
04:42:10,980 --> 04:42:14,080
yes the daycare ... spaces an interesting one ... as

4708
04:42:14,080 --> 04:42:16,200
part it is proposed as part of the first phase

4709
04:42:16,240 --> 04:42:19,060
... what is shown on the development plans is a

4710
04:42:19,060 --> 04:42:23,210
space around four hundred eighty square meters ... which the

4711
04:42:23,210 --> 04:42:29,580
applicant has stated will potentially serve up to

4712
04:42:29,580 --> 04:42:32,810
I think it is ... the any twentieth like twenty

4713
04:42:32,960 --> 04:42:37,810
twenty oh sorry children ... however the not willing to

4714
04:42:37,810 --> 04:42:42,470
commit to that size ... requirement as possible legal agreements

4715
04:42:42,820 --> 04:42:46,020
the most of their willing to commit to an illegal

4716
04:42:46,020 --> 04:42:48,910
agreement would be a day caspase around a hundred eighty

4717
04:42:48,910 --> 04:42:51,830
five square meters mmhm

4718
04:42:51,830 --> 04:42:55,070
... so I can make questions comments at the same

4719
04:42:55,070 --> 04:42:58,310
time right absolutely okay

4720
04:42:58,310 --> 04:43:03,390
that concerns me because

4721
04:43:03,390 --> 04:43:07,710
a project of this magnitude I think they they should

4722
04:43:07,710 --> 04:43:11,370
spend more time thinking about it and ... I I

4723
04:43:11,880 --> 04:43:14,350
I don't think that is satisfactory so the minimum is

4724
04:43:14,350 --> 04:43:17,900
ten ten placements for for children right

4725
04:43:17,900 --> 04:43:20,550
3 percent

4726
04:43:20,550 --> 04:43:23,260
it is it is hard to sell side question because

4727
04:43:23,260 --> 04:43:27,420
we we don't actually have ... ... floor space for

4728
04:43:27,420 --> 04:43:32,070
that lower amounts of that level that committee okay

4729
04:43:32,070 --> 04:43:37,120
all right have we

4730
04:43:37,120 --> 04:43:41,370
dealt with ... I'm I'm concerned about the entire project

4731
04:43:41,370 --> 04:43:44,600
moving forward at once and that like my colleague so

4732
04:43:44,630 --> 04:43:48,790
I've got some really concerns about the the delay between

4733
04:43:49,070 --> 04:43:51,970
phase one and phase two I think that that is

4734
04:43:51,970 --> 04:43:56,400
... a lot can change ... in that amount of

4735
04:43:56,400 --> 04:43:59,970
time and ... ... a ... to be honest with

4736
04:43:59,970 --> 04:44:03,550
you don't think I'd be wanting to make commitments today

4737
04:44:03,550 --> 04:44:07,640
about the future project that some ... five years down

4738
04:44:07,640 --> 04:44:11,300
the road ... within James Bay right now this project

4739
04:44:11,300 --> 04:44:15,990
that received a ... development permit ... ten years ago

4740
04:44:16,330 --> 04:44:19,560
and ... now is ... just about to get built

4741
04:44:19,560 --> 04:44:22,450
I believe and ... there's a lot of concerns about

4742
04:44:22,450 --> 04:44:25,360
the change in time ... that's gone from the time

4743
04:44:25,360 --> 04:44:28,230
the development permit has given that to today I think

4744
04:44:28,230 --> 04:44:31,350
we we know what that practice so ... leaving it

4745
04:44:31,350 --> 04:44:33,490
there that that is there I think there's a lot

4746
04:44:33,490 --> 04:44:37,100
of on certainty in the project ... now gonna go

4747
04:44:37,100 --> 04:44:41,070
through ... mind my notes with within the project in

4748
04:44:41,600 --> 04:44:44,120
my colleagues please bear with me because I've I've made

4749
04:44:44,120 --> 04:44:47,620
significant notes and and ...

4750
04:44:47,620 --> 04:44:51,340
I've been been through this a document and several times

4751
04:44:51,470 --> 04:44:53,860
and accounts are as ... councillor Andrew just to guide

4752
04:44:53,860 --> 04:44:56,120
your clients so it sounds like you're leaning towards supporting

4753
04:44:56,120 --> 04:44:59,150
the motion to refer so maybe your your comments no

4754
04:44:59,300 --> 04:45:02,900
no I'm not okay okay it's the only if I

4755
04:45:02,900 --> 04:45:04,650
ate

4756
04:45:04,650 --> 04:45:07,060
if I don't support it and it goes forward the

4757
04:45:07,060 --> 04:45:09,900
motion succeeds the none of my comments at this point

4758
04:45:09,900 --> 04:45:11,950
I disability so that is what I'm trying to do

4759
04:45:12,020 --> 04:45:15,240
yeah go ahead and I'm just trying to Santa I'd

4760
04:45:15,240 --> 04:45:20,520
rather not okay ... under accessibility on page nine of

4761
04:45:20,520 --> 04:45:25,860
the staff report you mentioned no accessibility improvements are proposed

4762
04:45:25,860 --> 04:45:30,290
beyond what is required through the BC ... building code

4763
04:45:30,290 --> 04:45:35,600
to propose public plans will provide and universally accessible route

4764
04:45:35,860 --> 04:45:40,310
from gates to view street my question really kind of

4765
04:45:40,310 --> 04:45:44,400
came up this morning when we were talking about accessibility

4766
04:45:44,860 --> 04:45:47,710
and we know that from a housing report that we

4767
04:45:47,740 --> 04:45:51,330
are deficient in the number at actually accessible units that

4768
04:45:51,330 --> 04:45:55,380
we have within with rental ... buildings around them the

4769
04:45:55,380 --> 04:46:00,410
city ... I understand other municipalities have guidelines when someone

4770
04:46:00,410 --> 04:46:05,070
is building rental building to place accessible units with in

4771
04:46:05,070 --> 04:46:10,380
the billing ... did we consider placing ... asking for

4772
04:46:10,380 --> 04:46:15,550
the applicant to create term accessible suites in in this

4773
04:46:15,550 --> 04:46:22,130
development

4774
04:46:22,130 --> 04:46:24,280
through the merits this is not an area that the

4775
04:46:24,280 --> 04:46:26,630
city has a policy it is something that we do

4776
04:46:26,630 --> 04:46:31,120
highlight for applicants Butta that's about as far as we

4777
04:46:31,120 --> 04:46:33,990
can take it so I don't think that that is

4778
04:46:33,990 --> 04:46:39,080
very ... equitable and so ... ... I would like

4779
04:46:39,080 --> 04:46:41,020
to see I'm not gonna do it is a motion

4780
04:46:41,280 --> 04:46:44,960
to to the ... developer I'm sure is that listing

4781
04:46:44,960 --> 04:46:47,740
I would like to see ... the standard should be

4782
04:46:47,740 --> 04:46:52,410
five percent accessible sweet to cross the ... the board

4783
04:46:52,410 --> 04:46:55,450
so I would like to see accessible suites there and

4784
04:46:55,450 --> 04:47:00,730
that doesn't mean just putting in ... ... disabled ...

4785
04:47:00,760 --> 04:47:04,950
buttons and on elevators and so honest insuring that the

4786
04:47:04,950 --> 04:47:10,240
actual units are ... built in flexibility when we go

4787
04:47:10,240 --> 04:47:14,970
to page seventeen of your report talking about wind ...

4788
04:47:15,130 --> 04:47:18,500
you you mentioned you're going to get another wind ...

4789
04:47:18,710 --> 04:47:24,310
steady there and I just wanted to ask about the

4790
04:47:24,570 --> 04:47:30,090
... the situation in the in the public space that

4791
04:47:30,090 --> 04:47:33,190
they are going we've been discussing do we do we

4792
04:47:33,190 --> 04:47:36,100
know what that the wind level in that area would

4793
04:47:36,100 --> 04:47:37,590
be

4794
04:47:37,590 --> 04:47:40,720
yes to the mat ... I couldn't tell you exactly

4795
04:47:40,720 --> 04:47:43,760
the correct terminology they they cut they have very unusual

4796
04:47:43,760 --> 04:47:47,560
classifications ... in that hierarchy of what's acceptable what's not

4797
04:47:47,560 --> 04:47:50,550
acceptable ... but I can tell you that the plaza

4798
04:47:50,550 --> 04:47:54,690
didn't raise any ... concerns or red flags through that

4799
04:47:54,720 --> 04:47:57,140
... through the wind study as being an area of

4800
04:47:57,140 --> 04:48:00,740
concern there is a concern where that primarily related to

4801
04:48:00,740 --> 04:48:03,640
the corner of Quadra and the streets ... on the

4802
04:48:03,640 --> 04:48:06,370
ground floor and then the terraces the towers but nothing

4803
04:48:06,370 --> 04:48:08,480
within the plaza okay and then when we look in

4804
04:48:08,480 --> 04:48:11,500
the in the surrounding areas tell us what we have

4805
04:48:11,530 --> 04:48:14,730
notably beauty hours just across from view street that one

4806
04:48:14,980 --> 04:48:18,680
not have been any any impact upon the on on

4807
04:48:18,680 --> 04:48:20,920
the wind in that area and I'm only and again

4808
04:48:20,920 --> 04:48:22,660
as a lay person and this is why I'm asking

4809
04:48:22,660 --> 04:48:26,710
this question ... you I've I've been in several buildings

4810
04:48:26,760 --> 04:48:30,510
... ... on the on the street in several building

4811
04:48:30,510 --> 04:48:33,620
expression Toronto Frances round comments quote when they have a

4812
04:48:33,620 --> 04:48:35,920
number of towns and the more they built towers the

4813
04:48:35,920 --> 04:48:40,210
wind get that area became I'm just

4814
04:48:40,210 --> 04:48:42,000
putting that out there to ... do we have any

4815
04:48:42,000 --> 04:48:45,510
in information on is it just the towns that that

4816
04:48:45,510 --> 04:48:48,190
they just study that the site what did they look

4817
04:48:48,390 --> 04:48:51,140
at how that would relate to some of the buildings

4818
04:48:51,140 --> 04:48:53,620
in the area and if if it would increase the

4819
04:48:53,850 --> 04:48:56,790
the wind flow through the through that area

4820
04:48:56,790 --> 04:48:59,430
the wind city primarily related to the septic sites in

4821
04:48:59,430 --> 04:49:05,490
the streets that join the subject science

4822
04:49:05,490 --> 04:49:08,940
it was sitting on the desert

4823
04:49:08,940 --> 04:49:13,180
... than an inline I think that I think they

4824
04:49:13,180 --> 04:49:17,020
need to ... show ... wind the the effect of

4825
04:49:17,020 --> 04:49:20,410
the wind ... it with in relation to other of

4826
04:49:20,410 --> 04:49:24,970
the buildings ...

4827
04:49:24,970 --> 04:49:27,840
you talked about that today

4828
04:49:27,840 --> 04:49:30,220


4829
04:49:30,220 --> 04:49:41,440
talked with

4830
04:49:49,640 --> 04:49:54,090
could you talk a bit about on page

4831
04:49:54,090 --> 04:49:59,920
any final page that page twenty two about encroachment agreements

4832
04:50:00,490 --> 04:50:03,630
and ... although I understand it for the for the

4833
04:50:03,630 --> 04:50:08,080
public could you please explain what this will mean to

4834
04:50:08,080 --> 04:50:12,280
the area once we start to build ... once they

4835
04:50:12,280 --> 04:50:17,790
start to build at this project was full

4836
04:50:17,790 --> 04:50:22,470
... yes saving Christian agreement said this is a typical

4837
04:50:22,470 --> 04:50:25,910
requirement ... whether it's gonna be I'm complaining I'm on

4838
04:50:25,910 --> 04:50:29,230
the public property ... so this is essentially just a

4839
04:50:29,230 --> 04:50:32,750
authorization for council to do that ... sometimes it's not

4840
04:50:32,750 --> 04:50:36,290
necessary ... but our stuff engineering have deemed in this

4841
04:50:36,290 --> 04:50:38,820
case it will be

4842
04:50:38,820 --> 04:50:41,920
okay thank you

4843
04:50:41,920 --> 04:50:44,540
just for a bit of further clarification anchor pending is

4844
04:50:44,540 --> 04:50:47,060
just basically a rod that goes through to the sidewalks

4845
04:50:47,060 --> 04:50:49,400
of the at the shore and stays in place there's

4846
04:50:49,400 --> 04:50:54,090
nothing visible or impacting the public over the long term

4847
04:50:54,090 --> 04:50:58,230
from the trees that are going to be pulled out

4848
04:50:58,260 --> 04:51:02,960
... and will be replaced will they be replaced with

4849
04:51:02,990 --> 04:51:09,180
some mature trees or when they go to them

4850
04:51:09,180 --> 04:51:14,000
due to be placed requirements on that

4851
04:51:14,000 --> 04:51:16,440
through the mayor press second answer that one so ...

4852
04:51:16,440 --> 04:51:19,670
art the trees will be replaced the species ... will

4853
04:51:19,670 --> 04:51:23,080
be determined ... further down the line ... in that

4854
04:51:23,080 --> 04:51:26,790
more detailed design process ... but they will be smaller

4855
04:51:26,790 --> 04:51:29,580
trees that will be planted as is typical with them

4856
04:51:30,410 --> 04:51:34,570
new plantings and those will be put in soil volumes

4857
04:51:34,600 --> 04:51:36,930
... that will allow for their for them to reach

4858
04:51:36,930 --> 04:51:40,830
maturity and be healthy thank you we talk about parking

4859
04:51:40,830 --> 04:51:44,710
variances being requested right now ... could you details as

4860
04:51:44,710 --> 04:51:47,940
far as please

4861
04:51:47,940 --> 04:51:51,100
a yes of course ... say there is parking variance

4862
04:51:51,100 --> 04:51:54,810
in this is specific to the first phase of development

4863
04:51:55,440 --> 04:51:58,250
... the

4864
04:51:58,250 --> 04:52:02,990
feathers a shortfall of forty eight residential schools an official

4865
04:52:02,990 --> 04:52:06,020
for the forty Stolz fact mentioned is to set a

4866
04:52:06,020 --> 04:52:10,140
taste awesome title for the first phase

4867
04:52:10,140 --> 04:52:14,050
and that's a combination of ... sorry that's a combination

4868
04:52:14,080 --> 04:52:20,080
of what we taste retail end and ... president trump's

4869
04:52:20,080 --> 04:52:24,040
address correct okay how many stones are currently in the

4870
04:52:24,040 --> 04:52:29,650
Harris green area

4871
04:52:29,650 --> 04:52:33,420
we don't have that information unfortunately you did note in

4872
04:52:33,420 --> 04:52:38,210
the report I believe them that you do you do

4873
04:52:38,210 --> 04:52:41,760
with knowledge that parking is going to be a challenge

4874
04:52:42,110 --> 04:52:44,840
in the in the area once this ... if this

4875
04:52:44,840 --> 04:52:48,950
moves forward as as presented correct

4876
04:52:48,950 --> 04:52:53,120
there is a statement that there is ... potentially anticipated

4877
04:52:53,250 --> 04:52:56,080
... she will there isn't a show full and leave

4878
04:52:56,080 --> 04:52:59,030
there may be some impacts on the surrounding streets ...

4879
04:52:59,030 --> 04:53:02,810
however ... stuff will save you the application excuse me

4880
04:53:03,280 --> 04:53:05,900
... in relation to the fact that ... this is

4881
04:53:05,930 --> 04:53:08,400
... hi screen is a neighborhood is in the open

4882
04:53:08,400 --> 04:53:12,260
coal ... there's extensive bike parking being provided there is

4883
04:53:12,260 --> 04:53:15,030
a ... bike too late to a protected bike lane

4884
04:53:15,030 --> 04:53:18,280
that some of the proposed along H. street ... that

4885
04:53:18,280 --> 04:53:22,770
the subject property is located within walking distance to many

4886
04:53:22,770 --> 04:53:26,240
amenities in the downtown core ... so these factors do

4887
04:53:26,240 --> 04:53:28,530
play into consideration of the stuff supports but if the

4888
04:53:28,530 --> 04:53:29,980
variance

4889
04:53:29,980 --> 04:53:35,220
hi this question is Mr source Cameron

4890
04:53:35,220 --> 04:53:38,030
Mr soar ski

4891
04:53:38,030 --> 04:53:41,900
are your samples good afternoon Sir can I ask you

4892
04:53:41,930 --> 04:53:47,560
... S. we we we can consider land left in

4893
04:53:47,560 --> 04:53:51,680
a application because it's here can we consider ... the

4894
04:53:51,680 --> 04:53:56,310
impact of ... the two tax lift on any application

4895
04:53:56,310 --> 04:54:00,740
that comes before us

4896
04:54:00,740 --> 04:54:07,480
council can consider economic impacts of the

4897
04:54:07,480 --> 04:54:13,090
opposed rezoning ... if the question relates to a potential

4898
04:54:13,090 --> 04:54:15,960
tax revenues that the city would receive that some pretty

4899
04:54:15,960 --> 04:54:20,480
about consideration okay but ... Mrs Ross he can we

4900
04:54:20,480 --> 04:54:24,150
consider that we are probably gonna put five thousand people

4901
04:54:24,150 --> 04:54:26,180
in a in a and block and a half in

4902
04:54:26,180 --> 04:54:30,150
the impact that those five thousand people could have on

4903
04:54:30,180 --> 04:54:35,280
um services and ... ... that the city would have

4904
04:54:35,280 --> 04:54:39,980
to provide to ... to accommodate and manage ... ...

4905
04:54:40,120 --> 04:54:43,110
that that amount of people

4906
04:54:43,110 --> 04:54:45,430
absolutely that say

4907
04:54:45,430 --> 04:54:47,760
very much that at the heart of the considerations I

4908
04:54:47,760 --> 04:54:49,870
think the reason

4909
04:54:49,870 --> 04:54:53,640
but ... the only way I could determine if not

4910
04:54:53,640 --> 04:54:57,070
just give an example ... if I'm going to put

4911
04:54:57,070 --> 04:54:59,960
to a thousand people in an hour and a one

4912
04:54:59,960 --> 04:55:03,490
block radius ... I'm assuming that that is going to

4913
04:55:03,830 --> 04:55:09,120
place ... ... more money ... for us to do

4914
04:55:09,120 --> 04:55:16,090
with the sewage garbage pickup or ... ... policing bylaw

4915
04:55:16,090 --> 04:55:19,790
something all those services that we have within the city

4916
04:55:20,110 --> 04:55:22,480
... so the only way I could that I can

4917
04:55:22,480 --> 04:55:27,530
consider ... as an individual it it me hypothetically is

4918
04:55:27,530 --> 04:55:33,080
to ... see want to ... ... try to determine

4919
04:55:33,080 --> 04:55:36,340
what the impact would be on our city budget in

4920
04:55:36,370 --> 04:55:40,790
it within any given year and what the potential lift

4921
04:55:40,790 --> 04:55:43,560
to our at revenue would be at two two ...

4922
04:55:43,900 --> 04:55:51,410
... ... development

4923
04:55:51,410 --> 04:55:54,080
Mr source here Sir was there was there yeah that

4924
04:55:54,080 --> 04:55:56,020
was a kind of a statement question sorry about that

4925
04:55:56,130 --> 04:56:00,520
yeah ... so how how can how can we as

4926
04:56:00,520 --> 04:56:05,640
a council to determine ... the ... the economic impact

4927
04:56:06,040 --> 04:56:10,690
of ... ... development and this is a sizeable development

4928
04:56:10,720 --> 04:56:14,380
if if we don't know ... you know ... how

4929
04:56:14,380 --> 04:56:18,040
much this is gonna putting this development to five thousand

4930
04:56:18,040 --> 04:56:21,290
people in two one half block radius what impact that

4931
04:56:21,290 --> 04:56:27,450
is going to have on our annual budget

4932
04:56:27,450 --> 04:56:31,130
well hi

4933
04:56:31,130 --> 04:56:33,900
there is no question that that any new development has

4934
04:56:33,900 --> 04:56:36,860
impacts on city services and that is definitely a power

4935
04:56:36,860 --> 04:56:41,810
consideration in terms of council's consideration of whether it's appropriate

4936
04:56:41,810 --> 04:56:47,200
to place ... the the density of residential uses or

4937
04:56:47,200 --> 04:56:51,260
or any other uses depending what we're talking about in

4938
04:56:51,290 --> 04:56:54,620
in a particular location ...

4939
04:56:54,620 --> 04:56:56,430
but

4940
04:56:56,430 --> 04:56:58,800
if I may have misunderstood the earlier question but if

4941
04:56:58,800 --> 04:57:03,910
the question is can we consider can council consider ...

4942
04:57:04,390 --> 04:57:08,140
all it revenues that you will receive from from the

4943
04:57:08,230 --> 04:57:12,090
... development once it's complete it ... then I would

4944
04:57:12,090 --> 04:57:13,760
say that that's not

4945
04:57:13,760 --> 04:57:17,620
it does not sent that is somewhat problematic consideration on

4946
04:57:17,620 --> 04:57:19,470
land use matter

4947
04:57:19,470 --> 04:57:24,490
impacts on the community from ... they hired ... or

4948
04:57:24,490 --> 04:57:29,550
or or influx of new residents is about consideration ...

4949
04:57:29,780 --> 04:57:33,260
I'm not sure

4950
04:57:33,260 --> 04:57:36,920
also how factually disk and be considered in a sense

4951
04:57:36,920 --> 04:57:40,290
of of ... the day ability to to estimate what

4952
04:57:40,290 --> 04:57:44,130
the revenue impacts would better or better results would be

4953
04:57:44,130 --> 04:57:49,390
of this development mmhm thank you it that to

4954
04:57:49,390 --> 04:57:54,230
that that is a help ... so I for the

4955
04:57:54,230 --> 04:57:56,510
public I do just want to make a brief statement

4956
04:57:56,510 --> 04:57:59,720
about this that ... tomorrow morning they'll be a headline

4957
04:57:59,720 --> 04:58:03,180
in the paper that this is that either we approved

4958
04:58:03,220 --> 04:58:06,410
you know a hundred story building ... going forward or

4959
04:58:06,410 --> 04:58:09,550
we didn't and that's gonna that's gonna be the bottom

4960
04:58:09,550 --> 04:58:14,030
line everyone at this table has read ... reams of

4961
04:58:14,030 --> 04:58:19,460
reports and and where where ... relying on the advice

4962
04:58:19,650 --> 04:58:24,140
and expertise of our staff and that's really important and

4963
04:58:24,140 --> 04:58:27,720
it's very difficult to to make these decisions so I

4964
04:58:27,720 --> 04:58:31,400
probably gonna make this statement now I'm about to the

4965
04:58:31,400 --> 04:58:34,130
... where I'm going I'm not going to support the

4966
04:58:34,130 --> 04:58:38,030
motion to refer I think it's much ... I think

4967
04:58:38,030 --> 04:58:42,460
it's messy ... and ... it doesn't give for the

4968
04:58:42,460 --> 04:58:47,390
direction to the applicant and I think to do fully

4969
04:58:47,390 --> 04:58:50,940
what we want and we are trying to make decisions

4970
04:58:50,940 --> 04:58:53,390
as the mayor has said that it can impact the

4971
04:58:53,390 --> 04:58:56,660
viability of the project ... but I think we should

4972
04:58:56,660 --> 04:59:00,980
be considering the impact of the the density from the

4973
04:59:00,980 --> 04:59:04,300
point of view number of people going in that what

4974
04:59:04,300 --> 04:59:08,570
I supported thirty two ... floor tower

4975
04:59:08,570 --> 04:59:13,750
... if it was done appropriately and effectively and we

4976
04:59:13,750 --> 04:59:18,280
can mitigate the ... community impacts of it I would

4977
04:59:18,280 --> 04:59:22,300
say yes I'm not convinced of that when I hear

4978
04:59:22,500 --> 04:59:25,420
that we haven't really thought things out to such as

4979
04:59:25,720 --> 04:59:29,880
... the ... the number of child care spaces than

4980
04:59:29,880 --> 04:59:34,270
being brought in as it only gonna complicate ... that

4981
04:59:34,270 --> 04:59:39,300
situation right now ... hi ... I think it will

4982
04:59:39,550 --> 04:59:42,960
I I think there are many uncertainties with this project

4983
04:59:43,440 --> 04:59:47,190
that I would have preferred the ... applicant to have

4984
04:59:47,190 --> 04:59:50,450
addressed before he came before us because these are many

4985
04:59:50,450 --> 04:59:53,030
of the questions that we getting through email and phone

4986
04:59:53,030 --> 04:59:58,550
calls and ... so for that reason a ... I'm

4987
04:59:58,550 --> 05:00:00,000
not going to support this motion

4988
05:00:00,000 --> 05:00:03,690
but I'm hoping that we'll get to them ... defeated

4989
05:00:03,690 --> 05:00:07,390
so that we can then try to ... meet some

4990
05:00:07,390 --> 05:00:11,300
of the challenges that are omitted from the main motion

4991
05:00:11,330 --> 05:00:12,580
thank you

4992
05:00:12,580 --> 05:00:14,760
okay thank you ... and ms lane has an update

4993
05:00:14,760 --> 05:00:17,450
or new information or different information on the child care

4994
05:00:17,450 --> 05:00:20,160
on ms lane go ahead yes thank you option she

4995
05:00:20,270 --> 05:00:22,770
helps and we did it we did confirm with them

4996
05:00:22,800 --> 05:00:26,170
... the applicant and the the number for this proposed

4997
05:00:26,170 --> 05:00:29,280
the DP four hundred I try square meters can accommodate

4998
05:00:29,310 --> 05:00:32,850
up to around seventy seventy children however the applicant is

4999
05:00:32,850 --> 05:00:34,690
not willing to commit to this number because I don't

5000
05:00:34,690 --> 05:00:38,510
have an operation in place I'm sorry ... that number

5001
05:00:38,510 --> 05:00:42,130
could range ... yeah between ... they said that the

5002
05:00:42,130 --> 05:00:46,520
floor space could be anywhere from four hundred upwards side

5003
05:00:47,000 --> 05:00:49,890
is it could be were it between thirty to thirty

5004
05:00:49,890 --> 05:00:51,960
to seventy is really the range that we've been given

5005
05:00:52,130 --> 05:00:56,860
yeah and my response and that is ... they're asking

5006
05:00:56,860 --> 05:01:01,120
us to make a significant decision about adding a significant

5007
05:01:01,120 --> 05:01:04,130
number of people into the downtown core and we we

5008
05:01:04,130 --> 05:01:07,480
encouraging families and if we what's the point in bringing

5009
05:01:07,480 --> 05:01:11,210
families into the downtown core and in this project if

5010
05:01:11,610 --> 05:01:13,330
there then can I have a hell of a time

5011
05:01:13,330 --> 05:01:15,890
trying to find childcare spaces that just might take that

5012
05:01:15,890 --> 05:01:17,390
just might take a

5013
05:01:17,390 --> 05:01:19,560
thank you very much ... I have councillor Dubow on

5014
05:01:19,560 --> 05:01:22,180
the motion to refer and then we do have other

5015
05:01:22,180 --> 05:01:24,700
items a counterpart to come to you and ... I

5016
05:01:24,700 --> 05:01:27,430
think at a certain point will I have adequately debated

5017
05:01:27,430 --> 05:01:30,340
this and then we can ... either pass it or

5018
05:01:30,340 --> 05:01:32,620
not and just there are still other items today and

5019
05:01:32,620 --> 05:01:35,250
tonight so councillor Dubow councillor Potts councillor Thornton Joe on

5020
05:01:35,250 --> 05:01:39,390
the motion to refer as it's been amended here sixpence

5021
05:01:39,480 --> 05:01:44,110
... I'm I'm just wondering I have a general

5022
05:01:44,110 --> 05:01:46,170
questions

5023
05:01:46,170 --> 05:01:52,620
how many errors do the staff no home energy and

5024
05:01:52,620 --> 05:01:59,270
market rate rentals are in construction as of today

5025
05:01:59,270 --> 05:02:05,170
under construction home money do we know the numbers

5026
05:02:05,170 --> 05:02:09,660
I'm sorry we don't have that readily available

5027
05:02:09,660 --> 05:02:14,010
okay ... is it possible to have such information for

5028
05:02:14,010 --> 05:02:17,060
the future

5029
05:02:17,060 --> 05:02:19,870
we can look into it and yes hopefully that doesn't

5030
05:02:19,870 --> 05:02:25,880
exist okay thank you ... what I know that some

5031
05:02:25,880 --> 05:02:29,470
clover has a different chapter the and then the rest

5032
05:02:29,470 --> 05:02:33,260
of the municipalities where

5033
05:02:33,260 --> 05:02:37,920
I wonder what tools or mechanisms do we have to

5034
05:02:37,950 --> 05:02:50,080
into suffice rent control tied to the unit

5035
05:02:50,080 --> 05:02:53,580
I'm I'm sorry what mechanisms are there's not yeah what

5036
05:02:53,580 --> 05:02:57,640
tools and mechanisms do we have or is there any

5037
05:02:57,940 --> 05:03:03,090
any and power is that we house or mechanisms to

5038
05:03:03,120 --> 05:03:08,010
in to see the end Sentifi size rent control tied

5039
05:03:08,010 --> 05:03:11,050
to the unit I know that that is a provincial

5040
05:03:11,050 --> 05:03:14,490
but I'm wondering if we have any mechanism at a

5041
05:03:14,490 --> 05:03:18,860
local level and at sore teeth probably the best bet

5042
05:03:18,860 --> 05:03:23,020
would be in a housing agreement to secure ... a

5043
05:03:23,020 --> 05:03:25,850
certain degree of affordability

5044
05:03:25,850 --> 05:03:29,030
and with that the rent control tied to the unit

5045
05:03:29,270 --> 05:03:31,930
I suppose it could be it's not something I'm just

5046
05:03:31,930 --> 05:03:36,240
looking to ms who says she has further

5047
05:03:36,240 --> 05:03:38,280
information

5048
05:03:38,280 --> 05:03:40,750
we would have to look into that if it's not

5049
05:03:40,750 --> 05:03:45,020
something we have done in the past okay

5050
05:03:45,020 --> 05:03:48,150
and with that take a lot of work to have

5051
05:03:48,150 --> 05:03:52,970
that information

5052
05:03:52,970 --> 05:03:55,010
ms

5053
05:03:55,010 --> 05:03:57,860
through the mayor ... we can certainly look into it

5054
05:03:57,920 --> 05:04:00,180
... it's not something that we've done in the past

5055
05:04:00,260 --> 05:04:03,410
and ... I do believe there was a debate about

5056
05:04:03,410 --> 05:04:06,070
this and council's once before and I'm not sure if

5057
05:04:06,070 --> 05:04:10,200
... misters or ski has any additional information on this

5058
05:04:10,200 --> 05:04:12,210
he has his hand up sorry Mr source can Mr

5059
05:04:12,210 --> 05:04:16,740
hand go ahead

5060
05:04:16,740 --> 05:04:20,720
thank you mayor helps I'm not entirely clear on on

5061
05:04:20,720 --> 05:04:23,040
what is meant by rent control but as a general

5062
05:04:23,040 --> 05:04:27,360
proposition ... local governments ... under the local government act

5063
05:04:27,360 --> 05:04:32,450
has the ability to provide in terms of incentive provide

5064
05:04:33,370 --> 05:04:38,510
a higher density ... in return for certain amenities such

5065
05:04:38,510 --> 05:04:42,650
as affordable affordable housing so as was mentioned by ...

5066
05:04:42,650 --> 05:04:48,040
is mired D. housing agreement would usually be the mechanism

5067
05:04:48,700 --> 05:04:51,510
by which ... the commitments would be secured but the

5068
05:04:51,510 --> 05:04:56,430
incentive forty ... developer property owner to enter into a

5069
05:04:56,430 --> 05:05:00,020
housing agreement would be linking it to a bonus ...

5070
05:05:00,020 --> 05:05:03,370
density out so that they are putting more density than

5071
05:05:03,370 --> 05:05:07,180
would otherwise be allowed in return for a housing agreement

5072
05:05:07,180 --> 05:05:12,680
which specifies the level of call for affordability ... forty

5073
05:05:13,250 --> 05:05:18,720
rental units ... which could regulate ... the allow increases

5074
05:05:19,250 --> 05:05:22,950
in rents and that's what I saw it on what

5075
05:05:22,950 --> 05:05:25,350
is in front of us already to have a density

5076
05:05:25,770 --> 05:05:31,260
but less affordability and and I'm I'm careers hi I

5077
05:05:31,260 --> 05:05:37,190
have read and I understood that in terms of

5078
05:05:37,190 --> 05:05:40,010
and the

5079
05:05:40,010 --> 05:05:46,070
the ... the land on the construction and and on

5080
05:05:46,070 --> 05:05:49,300
on the cost for the builder and all that and

5081
05:05:49,300 --> 05:05:53,600
the taxes seems to that's what I understood from the

5082
05:05:53,600 --> 05:05:58,690
developer and justifying why they don't have affordable housing which

5083
05:05:58,720 --> 05:06:00,380
I

5084
05:06:00,380 --> 05:06:03,350
I'm not economists but I would like to deferred that

5085
05:06:03,920 --> 05:06:09,570
at the moment could provide more affordable and I and

5086
05:06:09,570 --> 05:06:14,620
and walk out their numbers because they already asking more

5087
05:06:15,180 --> 05:06:20,090
and from the city then they have to give more

5088
05:06:20,090 --> 05:06:23,380
and my second question ease and I'm curious if this

5089
05:06:23,380 --> 05:06:28,430
is again a general question have we done scanned in

5090
05:06:28,460 --> 05:06:33,340
and and have a house in inventory of home air

5091
05:06:33,610 --> 05:06:39,220
rental house for affordable housing stock do we have any

5092
05:06:39,220 --> 05:06:44,730
event in house inventory

5093
05:06:44,730 --> 05:06:47,520
but we have what we have the housing needs assessment

5094
05:06:47,520 --> 05:06:50,150
after last council meeting I ask ms Hudson to email

5095
05:06:50,150 --> 05:06:53,180
it to all of council and she did yeah yes

5096
05:06:53,180 --> 05:06:57,750
I am aware of the housing needs and and in

5097
05:06:57,750 --> 05:07:02,200
my earlier points I also raises that there I believe

5098
05:07:02,200 --> 05:07:06,590
the lower medium and low income is two thousand something

5099
05:07:06,620 --> 05:07:10,840
at target but my question is more do we know

5100
05:07:10,840 --> 05:07:15,080
... and home in a rental affordable this talk existing

5101
05:07:15,470 --> 05:07:18,470
as of now in the city of Victoria do we

5102
05:07:18,470 --> 05:07:21,700
have in Renteria I'm not asking didn't need to add

5103
05:07:21,700 --> 05:07:25,730
the need housing targets rather than the existing print top

5104
05:07:25,820 --> 05:07:28,180
photos from the stock I hope my question is sure

5105
05:07:28,180 --> 05:07:30,550
I believe that number is in the housing needs assessment

5106
05:07:30,550 --> 05:07:32,270
as this it shows what we have and then it

5107
05:07:32,270 --> 05:07:34,110
shows what we need I can't tell you the page

5108
05:07:34,110 --> 05:07:37,480
number but ms Meyer maybe you can remind us I'm

5109
05:07:37,480 --> 05:07:39,840
sorry I don't know his number but we are fairly

5110
05:07:39,840 --> 05:07:42,340
certain that does exist in that it's in that document

5111
05:07:42,760 --> 05:07:44,420
on an

5112
05:07:44,420 --> 05:07:48,480
the and let's say that I I don't even remember

5113
05:07:48,480 --> 05:07:53,340
the numbers and do we know and or captured because

5114
05:07:53,340 --> 05:07:56,270
now we have the number of rental affordable to stalk

5115
05:07:56,710 --> 05:07:59,700
in in this city and in the community

5116
05:07:59,700 --> 05:08:03,380
hi we captured and recorded a monitor the Homan a

5117
05:08:03,380 --> 05:08:09,660
numbers of its full time renters has been displaced

5118
05:08:09,660 --> 05:08:15,030
for the last 2 years

5119
05:08:15,030 --> 05:08:17,370
I'm so I'm so you're asking how we've been monitoring

5120
05:08:17,370 --> 05:08:21,570
how many renters have been displaced correct over the last

5121
05:08:21,600 --> 05:08:27,230
few years I'm wondering I think ms win hasn't information

5122
05:08:27,230 --> 05:08:28,510
thank

5123
05:08:28,510 --> 05:08:32,040
thank you helps ... we do have ... I'll staff

5124
05:08:32,040 --> 05:08:34,390
and housing who kind of sin feeding this information through

5125
05:08:34,390 --> 05:08:36,740
us they did say that this information will be coming

5126
05:08:36,740 --> 05:08:39,350
out in the housing annual G. and a few months

5127
05:08:39,750 --> 05:08:42,440
and just as your previous question in relation to the

5128
05:08:42,440 --> 05:08:46,830
... number of market rental units ... we is is

5129
05:08:46,830 --> 05:08:51,380
difficult to track ... units are under construction ... but

5130
05:08:51,380 --> 05:08:54,690
we do have the data from twenty nineteen ... that

5131
05:08:54,690 --> 05:08:57,390
hundred eighty three purpose built market rental units are built

5132
05:08:57,390 --> 05:09:00,150
in twenty nineteen I didn't think we have a number

5133
05:09:00,150 --> 05:09:03,010
of twenty twenty as yet yeah it would be nice

5134
05:09:03,010 --> 05:09:06,360
to have twenty twenty on or so what is under

5135
05:09:06,390 --> 05:09:10,340
construction in twenty twenty one because that will give us

5136
05:09:10,540 --> 05:09:13,580
a and going back to what mayor helps was saying

5137
05:09:14,110 --> 05:09:17,770
to look at the heart of housing needs and on

5138
05:09:17,800 --> 05:09:22,320
on the numbers compared what is is asking as a

5139
05:09:22,320 --> 05:09:26,310
target in market rate and what is our target low

5140
05:09:26,600 --> 05:09:31,040
and medium II and below market rate and see where

5141
05:09:31,840 --> 05:09:35,480
as we approve more projects where out of folks would

5142
05:09:35,480 --> 05:09:40,290
be and what is the need and do I understand

5143
05:09:40,290 --> 05:09:43,850
correctly that they would be reports telling us as a

5144
05:09:43,850 --> 05:09:50,710
consul how many people has been displaced and and and

5145
05:09:50,740 --> 05:09:54,600
full time renters that has been displaced that that would

5146
05:09:54,600 --> 05:09:57,770
be coming on will have the exact number is that

5147
05:09:57,770 --> 05:10:03,050
what I'm hearing

5148
05:10:03,050 --> 05:10:05,570
the cost of it the response my housing stuff is

5149
05:10:05,600 --> 05:10:08,470
that but the exact number will be how to confirm

5150
05:10:08,470 --> 05:10:11,550
but it will be addressed ... as a topic in

5151
05:10:11,550 --> 05:10:15,050
the in the annual movie okay I think that that

5152
05:10:15,050 --> 05:10:17,790
is good news too it's not good news to hear

5153
05:10:17,790 --> 05:10:20,620
people are displaced but it's nice to have the numbers

5154
05:10:21,040 --> 05:10:25,500
then we could say C. D. if the damage at

5155
05:10:25,500 --> 05:10:28,090
this point so I I I do support this because

5156
05:10:28,090 --> 05:10:31,540
it will go and indeed in the report it says

5157
05:10:32,310 --> 05:10:39,090
that the fifteen and units that would be displaced and

5158
05:10:39,090 --> 05:10:41,900
that would be lost would be will have is that

5159
05:10:41,900 --> 05:10:45,770
right to review first ride review so but it it

5160
05:10:45,770 --> 05:10:49,590
takes five years minimum to construct so by that time

5161
05:10:49,800 --> 05:10:52,220
you might even leave the city rather than even come

5162
05:10:52,220 --> 05:10:55,800
back to a new build in ... and I didn't

5163
05:10:55,800 --> 05:11:02,180
only twenty three affordable units and and I'm Dan despite

5164
05:11:02,210 --> 05:11:06,360
displacing ... and I'm also fifteen units it doesn't add

5165
05:11:06,360 --> 05:11:10,560
up overload this massive change in our community so I

5166
05:11:10,560 --> 05:11:15,130
do support the motion to refer and I hope and

5167
05:11:15,130 --> 05:11:19,900
the private developer take CD's and and I and I

5168
05:11:19,900 --> 05:11:25,250
look at the numbers and and come forward and

5169
05:11:25,250 --> 05:11:28,000
is the and

5170
05:11:28,000 --> 05:11:33,000
come forward with and in terms of the visiting the

5171
05:11:33,000 --> 05:11:39,180
units of the bedrooms the Mexican units but also more

5172
05:11:39,180 --> 05:11:43,160
flexibility enough for a bit and affordability and my last

5173
05:11:43,160 --> 05:11:48,470
question the twenty three affordable units is there a day

5174
05:11:49,020 --> 05:11:53,170
is it lifetime of the building

5175
05:11:53,170 --> 05:11:55,840
this would be secured in perpetuity else that's what I

5176
05:11:55,840 --> 05:11:59,030
thought thank you very much thank you councillor Potts and

5177
05:11:59,030 --> 05:12:02,630
then councillor Thornton Joe on the motion to refer

5178
05:12:02,630 --> 05:12:04,460
I think it's gonna take a lot for the community

5179
05:12:04,460 --> 05:12:07,240
to get behind a development like this but I believe

5180
05:12:07,240 --> 05:12:11,210
there is an opportunity to advance several important schools identified

5181
05:12:11,210 --> 05:12:14,450
by the community ... from downtown green space to affordable

5182
05:12:14,450 --> 05:12:19,210
housing rental and urban density ... as a climate response

5183
05:12:19,450 --> 05:12:21,130
so I I think this development can give us a

5184
05:12:21,130 --> 05:12:23,850
lot and I think you can give more considering the

5185
05:12:23,850 --> 05:12:27,870
OCP amendment and ... so it's for that reason I'm

5186
05:12:27,870 --> 05:12:30,700
not able to support the referral motion but I really

5187
05:12:30,700 --> 05:12:34,570
strongly encourage counsellor first revision that we could ask for

5188
05:12:34,570 --> 05:12:36,670
a minimum of fifteen to print twenty percent of the

5189
05:12:36,670 --> 05:12:40,360
units affordable at a meeting at a medium a median

5190
05:12:40,360 --> 05:12:43,650
income ... split between the two phases for such a

5191
05:12:43,650 --> 05:12:46,980
sizeable development taking into consideration that's just asking for this

5192
05:12:46,980 --> 05:12:50,390
to be affordable to the average resident of Victoria we

5193
05:12:50,390 --> 05:12:53,640
would could consider retaining all of these units as rental

5194
05:12:53,850 --> 05:12:56,610
we can consider increasing ... an increase of two and

5195
05:12:56,610 --> 05:12:59,600
three bedroom units within this and then ... also clarity

5196
05:12:59,600 --> 05:13:02,250
for the plaza design and the clarity in the basement

5197
05:13:02,280 --> 05:13:05,490
of it and really considering how we can deliver that

5198
05:13:05,490 --> 05:13:08,270
green space for downtown and there should be no reason

5199
05:13:08,270 --> 05:13:12,490
of course for before this would come back to council

5200
05:13:12,490 --> 05:13:15,270
meeting for the tenants assistance policy to be fully complete

5201
05:13:15,630 --> 05:13:17,090
I think when we look at all of what we

5202
05:13:17,090 --> 05:13:19,180
could potentially and she but with this can we could

5203
05:13:19,180 --> 05:13:22,180
lean into what more is possible with this ... CPM

5204
05:13:22,180 --> 05:13:24,060
and meant to them I think that's the kind of

5205
05:13:24,060 --> 05:13:25,980
vision and the kind of bold action we should be

5206
05:13:25,980 --> 05:13:28,600
taking around housing because this is this is a substantial

5207
05:13:28,600 --> 05:13:31,120
amount of housing that we do definitely need and I

5208
05:13:31,120 --> 05:13:34,600
think a given ... what's before us here today and

5209
05:13:34,630 --> 05:13:37,160
... what's possible I would

5210
05:13:37,160 --> 05:13:39,040
for for for us to lean into the potential of

5211
05:13:39,040 --> 05:13:42,780
the OCP amendment and and looking at that affordability that

5212
05:13:42,780 --> 05:13:47,740
green space ... and that and look what we can

5213
05:13:47,740 --> 05:13:51,800
do in it it towards achieving ... climate action okay

5214
05:13:52,020 --> 05:13:54,690
thank you councillor Thornton Joe

5215
05:13:54,690 --> 05:13:57,910
so thank you I just wanna make sure maybe I'm

5216
05:13:57,910 --> 05:14:02,990
cleared so far this referral if this passes that means

5217
05:14:03,020 --> 05:14:05,540
that this will go back to staff to work with

5218
05:14:05,540 --> 05:14:07,770
the applicant and then we'll come back to committee of

5219
05:14:07,770 --> 05:14:12,450
the whole with these ... with comments or changes or

5220
05:14:12,450 --> 05:14:16,830
non changes of for this is that correct and if

5221
05:14:16,830 --> 05:14:22,020
this is defeated them the original motion that the mayor

5222
05:14:22,050 --> 05:14:27,090
... put on ... ... earlier today ... we'll be

5223
05:14:27,090 --> 05:14:30,880
on the table and the mayor will make some amendments

5224
05:14:30,880 --> 05:14:36,820
as as she mentioned ... would be added because she

5225
05:14:36,820 --> 05:14:40,860
supported many of the members here and if that is

5226
05:14:40,860 --> 05:14:45,490
supported then it will go to public hearing with these

5227
05:14:45,490 --> 05:14:49,180
recommend ... no ... go back to the OCP will

5228
05:14:49,180 --> 05:14:52,930
come back here but does the OCP when it comes

5229
05:14:52,930 --> 05:14:56,950
back here does it do the same thing as referral

5230
05:14:56,950 --> 05:15:03,040
what's the difference between it being referred to these and

5231
05:15:03,550 --> 05:15:07,160
it being approved to go to public hearing with it

5232
05:15:07,160 --> 05:15:10,950
coming back from the old sepia minutes

5233
05:15:10,950 --> 05:15:13,870
what yeah what is to happen I hope I answered

5234
05:15:13,870 --> 05:15:16,560
your question correctly and get me on the right track

5235
05:15:16,560 --> 05:15:18,470
if I don't

5236
05:15:18,470 --> 05:15:21,130
that there's a difference in how we recommend you proceed

5237
05:15:21,130 --> 05:15:23,660
based on the first part of the referral motion that

5238
05:15:24,190 --> 05:15:27,460
if it it will be very difficult for council to

5239
05:15:27,460 --> 05:15:29,830
do the referral on the OCP if you have an

5240
05:15:29,830 --> 05:15:32,660
expectation that the height in the density is lower because

5241
05:15:32,660 --> 05:15:35,960
we don't want to refer something out for the OCP

5242
05:15:36,490 --> 05:15:40,470
which is an accurate so if the intent is to

5243
05:15:40,470 --> 05:15:45,870
move the recommendation the staff recommendation and you add those

5244
05:15:45,900 --> 05:15:49,140
three bullets or however many bullets

5245
05:15:49,140 --> 05:15:53,040
into the mix then ... those things will be worked

5246
05:15:53,040 --> 05:15:56,880
on they talked about with the applicant the overall form

5247
05:15:56,880 --> 05:15:59,080
of the development with the density in the hate would

5248
05:15:59,080 --> 05:16:02,390
be referred out as well as any further information we

5249
05:16:02,390 --> 05:16:05,880
can provide all this information would come back to committee

5250
05:16:05,880 --> 05:16:09,020
of the whole along with the comments from the official

5251
05:16:09,020 --> 05:16:12,730
community plan referral and at that point council could decide

5252
05:16:12,760 --> 05:16:15,900
if it's ready to proceed to first and second reading

5253
05:16:15,900 --> 05:16:19,430
or whether there's further amendments that are needed and just

5254
05:16:19,460 --> 05:16:22,050
sorry go ahead which is but but if you throw

5255
05:16:22,050 --> 05:16:24,920
into the mix to the part about changing the density

5256
05:16:24,920 --> 05:16:27,430
or the height then it would be better to get

5257
05:16:27,430 --> 05:16:31,700
those changes before you referred out for an OCP amendment

5258
05:16:32,020 --> 05:16:36,270
okay okay so my understanding is if

5259
05:16:36,270 --> 05:16:40,010
this does not so this one will be able to

5260
05:16:40,010 --> 05:16:43,540
work on the OCP heightened density

5261
05:16:43,540 --> 05:16:46,940
but if this one is defeated and that's just the

5262
05:16:46,940 --> 05:16:51,300
mayor's with the amendments

5263
05:16:51,300 --> 05:16:54,910
it will not that's correct that's a significant difference you've

5264
05:16:54,910 --> 05:16:57,240
got it head bang on so this referral is to

5265
05:16:57,240 --> 05:16:59,310
reduce the height and density the main motion is to

5266
05:16:59,310 --> 05:17:01,370
keep the height and density plus all these other things

5267
05:17:01,400 --> 05:17:03,590
so if you want the heightened density reduced support the

5268
05:17:03,590 --> 05:17:07,810
referral if you're okay don't and then act if okay

5269
05:17:07,810 --> 05:17:10,520
so then at the moment the motion of the mayor

5270
05:17:10,520 --> 05:17:15,570
without the OCP if it is supported then I will

5271
05:17:15,570 --> 05:17:19,330
go to public hearing and if it's

5272
05:17:19,330 --> 05:17:23,910
when it comes back the OCP but I am just

5273
05:17:23,910 --> 05:17:27,170
okay just I just wanna I wanna make sure is

5274
05:17:27,170 --> 05:17:29,790
that we're very clear that what we're gonna get by

5275
05:17:29,790 --> 05:17:34,750
this motion so to respond I will be supporting this

5276
05:17:35,250 --> 05:17:40,650
because by did for me to decline this may mean

5277
05:17:40,650 --> 05:17:44,820
that it will move at least a bit forward maybe

5278
05:17:44,820 --> 05:17:50,140
not to public hearing better spent Ford without ... addressing

5279
05:17:50,170 --> 05:17:53,290
the OCP concerns of

5280
05:17:53,290 --> 05:17:56,550
about the height and the density which I feel is

5281
05:17:56,550 --> 05:18:01,720
also important along with the other three and I guess

5282
05:18:01,720 --> 05:18:05,370
some of for some of my colleagues who feel that

5283
05:18:05,370 --> 05:18:08,470
the the height to this is not ...

5284
05:18:08,470 --> 05:18:12,270
of concern I do feel that ... what you know

5285
05:18:12,270 --> 05:18:15,490
what I can my council I I had trouble with

5286
05:18:15,490 --> 05:18:19,040
some of the hi so we're being proposed and I

5287
05:18:19,040 --> 05:18:22,250
did support some but some of them ... because ...

5288
05:18:22,350 --> 05:18:25,640
because some of the things that we gained I see

5289
05:18:25,640 --> 05:18:29,200
some gains on this one but this is significantly higher

5290
05:18:29,200 --> 05:18:30,950
and

5291
05:18:30,950 --> 05:18:34,870
as some people have ... roof ... sort of said

5292
05:18:34,870 --> 05:18:39,540
this is something more of a Vancouver or or ...

5293
05:18:39,750 --> 05:18:43,890
Toronto's sort of heights and as someone whose ... born

5294
05:18:43,890 --> 05:18:47,690
and raised in Victoria and ... just I just see

5295
05:18:47,690 --> 05:18:51,150
that it these high start to lose the character of

5296
05:18:51,150 --> 05:18:54,640
what ... ... many of us ... see is important

5297
05:18:54,640 --> 05:18:58,490
for Victoria so I think we can still get some

5298
05:18:58,490 --> 05:19:01,060
of the rental and the affordability but not at the

5299
05:19:01,060 --> 05:19:04,640
cost of the character of our city thank you accounts

5300
05:19:04,640 --> 05:19:07,260
are also on the motion to refer it's just a

5301
05:19:07,260 --> 05:19:10,480
question to staff ... I think it's relevant to the

5302
05:19:10,520 --> 05:19:13,330
motion to refer ...

5303
05:19:13,330 --> 05:19:17,610
if this motion is defeated and we return to consideration

5304
05:19:17,610 --> 05:19:20,830
of the former motion am I correct in believing that

5305
05:19:20,890 --> 05:19:24,430
before a of public hearing would be scheduled all of

5306
05:19:24,430 --> 05:19:28,160
the conditions would have to be met

5307
05:19:28,160 --> 05:19:29,480
yes

5308
05:19:29,480 --> 05:19:31,340
do you have any sense of how long it might

5309
05:19:31,340 --> 05:19:34,530
take given how many there are

5310
05:19:34,530 --> 05:19:37,920
it will take a substantial amount of time it's hard

5311
05:19:37,920 --> 05:19:41,270
to give you an exact estimate because it it goes

5312
05:19:41,270 --> 05:19:43,600
two ways the applicant needs to make revisions and we

5313
05:19:43,600 --> 05:19:46,640
can't control that but even on our end turning around

5314
05:19:46,640 --> 05:19:49,030
all the reviews the legal requirements is going to take

5315
05:19:49,030 --> 05:19:52,270
some months right thank you

5316
05:19:52,270 --> 05:19:54,330
thank you I just like to make one more comment

5317
05:19:54,440 --> 05:19:59,080
on because Victoria Vancouver and Toronto keep being referenced ...

5318
05:19:59,080 --> 05:20:00,850
and I think it's really important just going back to

5319
05:20:00,850 --> 05:20:04,290
my earlier comments ... Colonna ... which is a city

5320
05:20:04,290 --> 05:20:08,300
kind of same same scale issues Victoria has recently approved

5321
05:20:08,300 --> 05:20:10,290
a forty two story building and that's not what we're

5322
05:20:10,290 --> 05:20:12,530
being asked to do and then I got a letter

5323
05:20:12,530 --> 05:20:14,240
in the mail of the good old fashioned mail from

5324
05:20:14,240 --> 05:20:16,950
my high school history teacher from London Ontario and he

5325
05:20:16,950 --> 05:20:19,250
wrote me sending you some memorabilia about Victoria and he

5326
05:20:19,250 --> 05:20:22,620
said you know London is is changing you you'd barely

5327
05:20:22,620 --> 05:20:25,520
recognize that there is a forty storey building and so

5328
05:20:25,520 --> 05:20:28,100
just you know and then those of London is on

5329
05:20:28,100 --> 05:20:30,520
Dhanteras very much like Victoria in terms of size and

5330
05:20:30,520 --> 05:20:34,080
scale and just going back to my earliest comments ...

5331
05:20:34,080 --> 05:20:37,610
if we are going to combat climate change to mitigate

5332
05:20:37,610 --> 05:20:41,970
climate change mid size cities like Victoria across this country

5333
05:20:42,230 --> 05:20:44,780
are going to need to accommodate more height and density

5334
05:20:44,780 --> 05:20:47,090
so people are living near where they work near where

5335
05:20:47,090 --> 05:20:48,900
the kids go to school so and it is is

5336
05:20:48,900 --> 05:20:51,820
that the Vancouver entrada kept getting reference so I just

5337
05:20:51,820 --> 05:20:54,840
wanted to to reference London and Colonna a London Ontario

5338
05:20:54,840 --> 05:20:57,550
Inc loon which are much more like Victoria than other

5339
05:20:57,550 --> 05:21:02,590
those other cities okay yes councillor Isitt

5340
05:21:02,590 --> 05:21:05,510
... I think there are ways to achieve additional density

5341
05:21:05,510 --> 05:21:10,020
that don't require that very drastic building height ... and

5342
05:21:10,020 --> 05:21:13,580
I think Victoria should pursue the path of ... more

5343
05:21:13,580 --> 05:21:17,770
mid rise ... densification rather than high rise ... I

5344
05:21:17,770 --> 05:21:19,900
think ...

5345
05:21:19,900 --> 05:21:23,220
... I think the presence of very tall buildings and

5346
05:21:23,220 --> 05:21:29,070
cities could more be an indication of ... the municipal

5347
05:21:29,070 --> 05:21:34,210
councils willingness to approve ... tall buildings and ... than

5348
05:21:34,340 --> 05:21:37,050
any other sort of factors and from time to time

5349
05:21:37,050 --> 05:21:39,400
we have seen very tall buildings in this community but

5350
05:21:39,400 --> 05:21:41,940
they're all also has been a tradition of more of

5351
05:21:41,940 --> 05:21:44,650
a mid price approach there's also been a huge amount

5352
05:21:44,650 --> 05:21:47,750
of construction downtown and yet we've seen the price of

5353
05:21:47,750 --> 05:21:50,680
housing going up rather than down so I think we

5354
05:21:50,680 --> 05:21:53,870
do have to challenge the myth of supply and I

5355
05:21:53,870 --> 05:21:56,160
I it doesn't appear that we're in the process of

5356
05:21:56,160 --> 05:21:58,960
building our way out of the housing crisis I think

5357
05:21:58,960 --> 05:22:02,800
we need other tools and we need binding housing agreements

5358
05:22:02,800 --> 05:22:06,420
to lock affordabilities into new units and we also need

5359
05:22:06,420 --> 05:22:11,810
increased public investment in ... D. commodified housing so ...

5360
05:22:12,080 --> 05:22:14,010
it was suggested by the mayor that if we were

5361
05:22:14,010 --> 05:22:16,880
to ... essentially lost three and a half stories off

5362
05:22:16,880 --> 05:22:20,190
the building that would automatically result in a a wider

5363
05:22:20,190 --> 05:22:22,600
building but that wasn't the nature of my question to

5364
05:22:22,600 --> 05:22:25,400
staff it was if council chose to hold the line

5365
05:22:25,710 --> 05:22:29,340
on the density as envisioned in the OCP in terms

5366
05:22:29,340 --> 05:22:33,640
of holding the density it five point five to one

5367
05:22:33,870 --> 05:22:37,170
... what would that do to the height ... and

5368
05:22:37,170 --> 05:22:40,090
we heard from staff that would remove the T. three

5369
05:22:40,090 --> 05:22:42,750
and a half for four stories off the building ...

5370
05:22:42,750 --> 05:22:46,000
that wouldn't results in widening the building the assumption was

5371
05:22:46,000 --> 05:22:48,980
that the existing kind of ... for plead with the

5372
05:22:48,980 --> 05:22:53,070
existing ... floor area of the ... the floors in

5373
05:22:53,070 --> 05:22:57,650
the tower ... what would that point five of density

5374
05:22:57,650 --> 05:23:00,580
mean for building height so one way to address the

5375
05:23:00,580 --> 05:23:05,810
very ... substantial overreach into height would be to hold

5376
05:23:05,810 --> 05:23:09,350
the line on the OCP density and at that that

5377
05:23:09,350 --> 05:23:13,920
wouldn't mean more the wider buildings that would have more

5378
05:23:13,920 --> 05:23:15,920
of an impact on the public realm so just to

5379
05:23:15,920 --> 05:23:20,550
go in and correct that in accuracy ... I think

5380
05:23:20,550 --> 05:23:23,450
I don't support opening the floodgates to very tall buildings

5381
05:23:23,450 --> 05:23:25,300
in the community I think there's a way to house

5382
05:23:25,300 --> 05:23:28,290
people through other approaches that have been proven in other

5383
05:23:28,290 --> 05:23:31,720
communities and so I think referral to staff is the

5384
05:23:31,720 --> 05:23:35,170
appropriate way to proceed ... rather than allowing this to

5385
05:23:35,170 --> 05:23:40,260
go to public hearing with nearly ... superficial changes

5386
05:23:40,260 --> 05:23:42,920
okay ... I'm gonna call the question on the motion

5387
05:23:42,920 --> 05:23:45,910
to refer all those in favor

5388
05:23:45,910 --> 05:23:51,700
those opposed myself councillor Loveday councillor Potts councillor Andrew councillor

5389
05:23:51,700 --> 05:23:55,070
alto so the motion to refer fails ... so why

5390
05:23:55,070 --> 05:23:58,450
don't I start since I was proposing ... some amendments

5391
05:23:58,760 --> 05:24:02,840
... I'd like what councillor Potts said should rather than

5392
05:24:02,840 --> 05:24:06,490
a general comment about affordability ... so let why don't

5393
05:24:06,490 --> 05:24:09,110
well do them one at a time just trees ...

5394
05:24:09,140 --> 05:24:13,850
that at least fifteen percent of the units over both

5395
05:24:13,850 --> 05:24:18,910
phases of the development achieve ... the median income of

5396
05:24:18,910 --> 05:24:22,190
affordability in the city's affordable housing plan

5397
05:24:22,190 --> 05:24:23,730
is there a seconder

5398
05:24:23,730 --> 05:24:27,490
seconded by councillor ... also ... kills about I know

5399
05:24:27,490 --> 05:24:29,590
you said between fifteen to twenty percent but I I

5400
05:24:29,590 --> 05:24:32,040
think we you know we we do need to push

5401
05:24:32,040 --> 05:24:34,410
here a little bit to adhere that ... I think

5402
05:24:34,410 --> 05:24:37,230
fifteen with at least fifteen percent is a good start

5403
05:24:37,580 --> 05:24:39,880
... and that could be in this phase or or

5404
05:24:39,880 --> 05:24:41,940
next phase so I'll go to councillor alto and I'll

5405
05:24:41,940 --> 05:24:44,670
come to you next councillor alto as a seconder

5406
05:24:44,670 --> 05:24:47,940
I think this is actually a good balance between ...

5407
05:24:48,480 --> 05:24:52,110
aspirational and achievable and I think it's quite reasonable to

5408
05:24:52,110 --> 05:24:55,730
expect that given the other ... any other conditions that

5409
05:24:55,730 --> 05:24:58,010
have been applied to this that this is still something

5410
05:24:58,010 --> 05:25:00,650
that could be achieved and to help the project received

5411
05:25:00,650 --> 05:25:02,710
so I'm happy to support this it may or may

5412
05:25:02,710 --> 05:25:05,600
not be achievable at least let's try and musical catches

5413
05:25:05,600 --> 05:25:10,710
a median not medium income accounts are Potts go ahead

5414
05:25:10,710 --> 05:25:12,750


5415
05:25:12,750 --> 05:25:16,600
would like to try an amendment to this ... that

5416
05:25:16,630 --> 05:25:19,790
instead of saying over both faces of the devil meant

5417
05:25:20,150 --> 05:25:23,110
to say with at least half in the first phase

5418
05:25:23,110 --> 05:25:26,910
of development yes it could just just before ask for

5419
05:25:26,910 --> 05:25:30,250
a seconder that meant ... half is five hundred to

5420
05:25:30,250 --> 05:25:32,210
the first half is five hundred units in the second

5421
05:25:32,210 --> 05:25:35,650
half is a thousand units sold one ... a third

5422
05:25:35,680 --> 05:25:37,970
a third okay

5423
05:25:37,970 --> 05:25:40,270
the overall this is two hundred and twenty five units

5424
05:25:40,320 --> 05:25:42,940
so that is a reasonable amount it just that there

5425
05:25:42,940 --> 05:25:45,250
would be the fear and uncertainty of not being able

5426
05:25:45,250 --> 05:25:48,470
to deliver the ... ... a number of them okay

5427
05:25:48,470 --> 05:25:50,490
is there a seconder

5428
05:25:50,490 --> 05:25:52,640
second by councillor Loveday okay so that at least fifty

5429
05:25:52,640 --> 05:25:54,340
percent of units with at least one third of the

5430
05:25:54,340 --> 05:25:57,130
first phase okay yet so all debate on with at

5431
05:25:57,130 --> 05:26:00,070
least one third in the first phase any debate on

5432
05:26:00,070 --> 05:26:03,430
that yes councillor alto ... just to clarifications so that

5433
05:26:03,430 --> 05:26:06,260
means

5434
05:26:06,260 --> 05:26:10,540
half of the 15 percent right

5435
05:26:10,540 --> 05:26:12,190
... through a Sir third of the third of the

5436
05:26:12,190 --> 05:26:16,110
fifteen percent right so so it would be ... okay

5437
05:26:16,140 --> 05:26:18,920
I just wanna make sure that I understand the the

5438
05:26:18,950 --> 05:26:22,210
math behind it so if they were arbitrarily a hundred

5439
05:26:22,210 --> 05:26:24,810
units we were talking about fifteen of them would be

5440
05:26:24,810 --> 05:26:27,010
affordable over all of it and at least five would

5441
05:26:27,010 --> 05:26:28,790
be in the first phase

5442
05:26:28,790 --> 05:26:31,560
that's all the math is right okay thanks ms Wayne

5443
05:26:31,560 --> 05:26:33,880
is staff is that clear to you I

5444
05:26:33,880 --> 05:26:35,930
it has to be clear to staff so let's actually

5445
05:26:35,930 --> 05:26:39,230
let's just let's let's so

5446
05:26:39,230 --> 05:26:41,700
the the to do math quickly so they're five hundred

5447
05:26:41,700 --> 05:26:44,120
this is called five hundred units in phase one if

5448
05:26:44,120 --> 05:26:48,210
at least fifteen percent of those

5449
05:26:48,210 --> 05:26:51,990
through I am Mike quick figures

5450
05:26:51,990 --> 05:26:55,740
of the fifteen percent would represent about two hundred and

5451
05:26:55,740 --> 05:26:59,750
thirty units so two hundred thirty divided by three thirds

5452
05:26:59,750 --> 05:27:02,550
would work out to seventy four percent or something like

5453
05:27:02,550 --> 05:27:06,200
that's what we need we need that okay any further

5454
05:27:06,200 --> 05:27:10,280
discussion on the bolded language yes councillor young

5455
05:27:10,280 --> 05:27:13,510
yeah I don't think is achievable okay thank you very

5456
05:27:13,510 --> 05:27:18,070
much ... on the bolded language any discussion

5457
05:27:18,070 --> 05:27:21,930
all those in favor any opposed councillor young as opposed

5458
05:27:21,930 --> 05:27:23,950
okay so now the amendment is that at least fifteen

5459
05:27:23,950 --> 05:27:25,660
percent of the units with at least one third of

5460
05:27:25,660 --> 05:27:28,540
the first phase of the development achieve the median income

5461
05:27:28,540 --> 05:27:31,450
of affordability in the housing cities at a housing affordability

5462
05:27:31,450 --> 05:27:34,160
strategy sure you should be strategy

5463
05:27:34,160 --> 05:27:37,700
not plan okay ... any further discussion on that amendment

5464
05:27:38,450 --> 05:27:42,190
up it may actually not be achievable but this is

5465
05:27:42,190 --> 05:27:45,430
a significant development and I want to see it move

5466
05:27:45,430 --> 05:27:47,770
forward and they're asking for above the OCP so we

5467
05:27:47,770 --> 05:27:49,770
have to try I feel like this is are trying

5468
05:27:49,940 --> 05:27:52,420
to make sure that we can achieve what needs to

5469
05:27:52,420 --> 05:27:55,530
be achieved for a resident so I councillor Potts and

5470
05:27:55,530 --> 05:27:57,820
then counselor young I just wanna add and your in

5471
05:27:57,820 --> 05:28:01,280
our conversations around inclusionary housing policy we kind of went

5472
05:28:01,280 --> 05:28:02,700
back and forth in a lot of ways to how

5473
05:28:02,700 --> 05:28:07,570
to achieve affordability and I asked a developers directly how

5474
05:28:07,570 --> 05:28:10,210
can we get more affordability and he said we need

5475
05:28:10,210 --> 05:28:13,520
more density and this is what we're doing here so

5476
05:28:13,520 --> 05:28:15,340
I think that I think that we should really lean

5477
05:28:15,340 --> 05:28:17,750
into this and tried

5478
05:28:17,750 --> 05:28:20,330
okay thank you councillor young

5479
05:28:20,330 --> 05:28:22,850
well we have we have a goal of the achieving

5480
05:28:22,850 --> 05:28:24,530
more units

5481
05:28:24,530 --> 05:28:29,160
but I think we have to be clear the affordability

5482
05:28:29,190 --> 05:28:33,200
is an amenity for the region and for the province

5483
05:28:33,230 --> 05:28:37,040
it's not an amenity for the neighbourhood ... the navy

5484
05:28:37,040 --> 05:28:41,220
the neighborhood has identified amenities that they'd like to see

5485
05:28:41,250 --> 05:28:47,490
a public open space green space playgrounds ... by

5486
05:28:47,490 --> 05:28:51,320
ask by by asking the the developers to put his

5487
05:28:51,320 --> 05:28:57,520
money into affordability we are reducing the options for him

5488
05:28:57,520 --> 05:29:01,980
to achieve some of the benefits ... for the neighborhood

5489
05:29:01,980 --> 05:29:05,630
in which this project is to be placed on a

5490
05:29:05,630 --> 05:29:08,630
just a comment I I fundamentally disagree with that ...

5491
05:29:08,630 --> 05:29:11,370
if there are median income units people who work at

5492
05:29:11,370 --> 05:29:14,060
London drugs or market on Yates can live right upstairs

5493
05:29:14,060 --> 05:29:15,770
from where they work and they're part of the neighborhood

5494
05:29:15,770 --> 05:29:18,230
too so it is of absolute benefit there may be

5495
05:29:18,230 --> 05:29:20,880
people living there now in units that they can't afford

5496
05:29:20,880 --> 05:29:23,600
his are paying too much they so at the it

5497
05:29:23,600 --> 05:29:26,960
depends on who you count as a neighborhood I guess

5498
05:29:26,960 --> 05:29:29,300
councillor Dubow

5499
05:29:29,300 --> 05:29:34,170
thanks mayor helps and I do agree your last comments

5500
05:29:34,170 --> 05:29:38,780
and remarks I've question so nothing

5501
05:29:38,780 --> 05:29:42,030
and guarantees that

5502
05:29:42,030 --> 05:29:46,770
the applicant who do this they could say I'm not

5503
05:29:46,810 --> 05:29:49,020
with this and

5504
05:29:49,020 --> 05:29:53,050
then with the application move forward

5505
05:29:53,050 --> 05:29:54,860
this is a condition

5506
05:29:54,860 --> 05:29:57,070
so if this condition can't be met staff will come

5507
05:29:57,070 --> 05:29:59,220
back and tell us that this was not achievable but

5508
05:29:59,220 --> 05:30:02,620
when I read I I don't see condition

5509
05:30:02,620 --> 05:30:04,960
because you're reading a long list of conditions at the

5510
05:30:04,960 --> 05:30:07,390
very top it says go to public hearing subject to

5511
05:30:07,390 --> 05:30:10,430
this whole alphabet of things are extending the alphabet that

5512
05:30:10,430 --> 05:30:14,010
that then that makes sense thank you as long as

5513
05:30:14,010 --> 05:30:16,310
this is a condition on it with a move forward

5514
05:30:16,310 --> 05:30:20,610
on this the applicant and when

5515
05:30:20,610 --> 05:30:24,660
guarantees said the fifteen percent of the units Dan I

5516
05:30:25,100 --> 05:30:28,710
do support the amendment okay thank you I any further

5517
05:30:28,710 --> 05:30:33,280
discussion on the amendment all those in favor any opposed

5518
05:30:33,480 --> 05:30:36,020
councillor young as opposed okay the second one there was

5519
05:30:36,020 --> 05:30:37,990
some very good wording about the mix of two and

5520
05:30:37,990 --> 05:30:41,640
three bedroom units submissive Alka hopefully you kept that ...

5521
05:30:41,640 --> 05:30:43,880
and we could go with that as a second proposed

5522
05:30:43,880 --> 05:30:45,440
amendment

5523
05:30:45,440 --> 05:30:49,800
okay moved by councillor Dubow seconded by councillor Loveday

5524
05:30:49,800 --> 05:30:53,130
okay our discussion

5525
05:30:53,130 --> 05:30:57,470
all those in favor of the amendment any opposed okay

5526
05:30:57,470 --> 05:31:00,670
none opposed that carries and then ... of the the

5527
05:31:00,670 --> 05:31:03,890
wording on it asking the D. R. A. if it

5528
05:31:03,890 --> 05:31:06,170
suits them to have a plaza if they say no

5529
05:31:06,170 --> 05:31:09,540
that doesn't really take us anywhere so I think we've

5530
05:31:09,540 --> 05:31:12,460
had comments at this table for years about the need

5531
05:31:12,460 --> 05:31:15,340
for more green space in in the downtown and an

5532
05:31:15,340 --> 05:31:18,920
error screen so ... I don't know the exact language

5533
05:31:18,920 --> 05:31:22,100
I'll start out enough people have better ideas ... but

5534
05:31:22,330 --> 05:31:25,170
that the public plaza

5535
05:31:25,170 --> 05:31:28,900
be more park like

5536
05:31:28,900 --> 05:31:32,270
or have more green space maybe be beaten mostly green

5537
05:31:32,270 --> 05:31:34,890
space

5538
05:31:34,890 --> 05:31:38,480
and that

5539
05:31:38,480 --> 05:31:41,800
a DP for the plaza

5540
05:31:41,800 --> 05:31:44,800
B. submitted now

5541
05:31:44,800 --> 05:31:48,900
with an expiration date timed with the proposed bills out

5542
05:31:48,900 --> 05:31:51,330
of phase two

5543
05:31:51,330 --> 05:31:54,290
is there a seconder

5544
05:31:54,290 --> 05:31:56,710
seconded yeah thanks councillor this might not be the exact

5545
05:31:56,710 --> 05:31:58,670
language but I'm trying to capture as we've heard more

5546
05:31:58,670 --> 05:32:01,500
about the need for parks downtown ... it might not

5547
05:32:01,500 --> 05:32:03,270
be a big space but it could be a very

5548
05:32:03,270 --> 05:32:06,300
beautiful usable functional green space with places for kids to

5549
05:32:06,300 --> 05:32:08,900
run around and dogs to run around ... I know

5550
05:32:08,900 --> 05:32:12,410
our policy envisions hardscape a councillor Loveday is right sometimes

5551
05:32:12,410 --> 05:32:14,770
you go to cities and your in between towers and

5552
05:32:14,770 --> 05:32:16,750
no one's there because it's not a nice place to

5553
05:32:16,750 --> 05:32:19,730
be ... and then the other the second part is

5554
05:32:19,730 --> 05:32:21,670
really and staff you might need to help us with

5555
05:32:21,670 --> 05:32:23,840
this language but we don't want them to have to

5556
05:32:23,840 --> 05:32:25,710
come back for a D. P. every two years we

5557
05:32:25,710 --> 05:32:27,540
know that this is going to take longer to build

5558
05:32:27,540 --> 05:32:30,010
out ... just because it takes a long time to

5559
05:32:30,010 --> 05:32:33,720
build concrete buildings if nothing else and so the the

5560
05:32:33,720 --> 05:32:36,980
spirit areas ... that staff and the applicant can work

5561
05:32:36,980 --> 05:32:39,920
together on a reasonable time for the DP to expire

5562
05:32:39,920 --> 05:32:41,820
that would kind of coincide with the build out of

5563
05:32:41,820 --> 05:32:44,630
phase two so is that ms ... Meyer is this

5564
05:32:44,630 --> 05:32:51,630
good enough language for DD for this

5565
05:32:51,630 --> 05:32:54,710
yes sorry just needed time to catch my brain up

5566
05:32:54,740 --> 05:32:57,800
yeah absolutely okay I'll I'll just just to motivate I

5567
05:32:57,800 --> 05:33:00,280
think it is important this is the biggest amenity that

5568
05:33:00,280 --> 05:33:03,850
this project is delivering ... and I think this council

5569
05:33:03,850 --> 05:33:06,710
whose approving hopefully you know if we get that far

5570
05:33:06,740 --> 05:33:08,290
... in this term I don't know how long it's

5571
05:33:08,290 --> 05:33:10,660
gonna take ... it we would be the ones that

5572
05:33:10,660 --> 05:33:13,760
would be responsible for securing this amenity not hoping that

5573
05:33:13,790 --> 05:33:16,100
in sometime in the future that it is is there

5574
05:33:16,100 --> 05:33:18,190
so that's the spirit of this I councillor Loveday as

5575
05:33:18,190 --> 05:33:23,140
a seconder and then I can look for others

5576
05:33:23,140 --> 05:33:26,910
yeah I think this ... wording gets at the heart

5577
05:33:26,910 --> 05:33:29,320
of it ...

5578
05:33:29,320 --> 05:33:31,250
I don't know

5579
05:33:31,250 --> 05:33:35,070
the word mostly in implies more than fifty percent obviously

5580
05:33:35,070 --> 05:33:38,960
which sounds reasonable but I I I think that would

5581
05:33:38,960 --> 05:33:41,880
be in the design so overall I do support this

5582
05:33:41,880 --> 05:33:44,070
I think it gets us closer to where we were

5583
05:33:44,310 --> 05:33:49,710
trying to go with the plaza and ... although the

5584
05:33:49,710 --> 05:33:53,360
D. R. E. isn't mentioned here I do think that

5585
05:33:53,360 --> 05:33:57,210
they should be involved in the conversation

5586
05:33:57,210 --> 05:34:00,520
thank you any other comments on this amendment

5587
05:34:00,520 --> 05:34:03,900
yes councillor Potts I just reboot

5588
05:34:03,900 --> 05:34:08,670
about the possibility of including the language of instead of

5589
05:34:08,670 --> 05:34:11,620
just kind of green space of park space ... if

5590
05:34:11,620 --> 05:34:15,610
that ... usable green space

5591
05:34:15,610 --> 05:34:17,020
part

5592
05:34:17,020 --> 05:34:21,080
just a signal that you know similar

5593
05:34:21,080 --> 05:34:24,890
what really the downtowns as far as parks so park

5594
05:34:24,890 --> 05:34:28,020
like park like park like park like green space also

5595
05:34:28,020 --> 05:34:31,670
cannot okay

5596
05:34:31,670 --> 05:34:35,270
is okay any discussion on the words park like

5597
05:34:35,270 --> 05:34:40,050
all those in favor any opposed okay any further discussion

5598
05:34:40,050 --> 05:34:42,790
on the amendment

5599
05:34:42,790 --> 05:34:45,370
all those in favor of the amendment are there any

5600
05:34:45,370 --> 05:34:51,890
opposed okay any further amendments to this motion councillor Andrew

5601
05:34:51,890 --> 05:34:56,190
... ... to this motion no ... notice or that

5602
05:34:56,190 --> 05:34:59,620
amendment has carried it to the ... yes could we

5603
05:34:59,620 --> 05:35:02,570
... ...

5604
05:35:02,570 --> 05:35:08,490
5 percent accessible

5605
05:35:08,490 --> 05:35:10,170
units

5606
05:35:10,170 --> 05:35:14,750
Ross

5607
05:35:14,750 --> 05:35:18,860
full

5608
05:35:18,860 --> 05:35:21,740
phases of the development phases of the development yeah and

5609
05:35:21,740 --> 05:35:24,130
then and then the the essence of that would be

5610
05:35:24,130 --> 05:35:27,100
it would also be ...

5611
05:35:27,100 --> 05:35:31,970
some of the ... the ... ... lesson market rental

5612
05:35:31,970 --> 05:35:34,070
rates as well do you want that in there as

5613
05:35:34,070 --> 05:35:37,880
well so that have you know five percent of the

5614
05:35:37,880 --> 05:35:42,780
... ... the ... the ...

5615
05:35:42,780 --> 05:35:46,750
the ... subsidize units all that low price units would

5616
05:35:46,750 --> 05:35:48,540
also be available

5617
05:35:48,540 --> 05:35:52,050
D. so did the ... if we say all phases

5618
05:35:52,840 --> 05:35:57,280
five three six sorry correct yeah five percent accessible units

5619
05:35:57,280 --> 05:36:00,070
across all phases of the development yeah may I may

5620
05:36:00,070 --> 05:36:04,820
I just offer caution them ... at the new buildings

5621
05:36:04,820 --> 05:36:07,780
through C. R. H. C. capital regional housing regional housing

5622
05:36:07,780 --> 05:36:11,290
Corp which are market based affordable units there ... the

5623
05:36:11,290 --> 05:36:14,370
C. M. H. C. as a condition of funding required

5624
05:36:14,370 --> 05:36:17,120
that a certain portion be accessible of the affordable units

5625
05:36:17,450 --> 05:36:20,180
and they're very difficult to rent there is very slow

5626
05:36:20,180 --> 05:36:23,030
uptake so maybe if we can just leave that that

5627
05:36:23,030 --> 05:36:25,820
to the discretion of staff in that rather than mandating

5628
05:36:25,820 --> 05:36:30,020
that okay yeah fine okay so five percent accessible units

5629
05:36:30,020 --> 05:36:32,090
across all phases of the development is there a seconder

5630
05:36:32,090 --> 05:36:34,250
for that

5631
05:36:34,250 --> 05:36:36,770
second by councillor Loveday okay great had to motivate I

5632
05:36:36,770 --> 05:36:42,250
just ... we we have ... ...

5633
05:36:42,250 --> 05:36:44,630
we we do not have a enough excess but units

5634
05:36:44,630 --> 05:36:48,480
right now I find that ... ... maybe it's price

5635
05:36:48,480 --> 05:36:52,000
point that is the issue but ... ... we we

5636
05:36:52,000 --> 05:36:54,690
need to get more accessible units and into the market

5637
05:36:55,110 --> 05:36:58,210
M. and ... if we can do that ... I

5638
05:36:58,210 --> 05:37:00,410
think that's a good thing for the people that to

5639
05:37:00,720 --> 05:37:05,220
have that mobility issues or need accessible units to live

5640
05:37:05,480 --> 05:37:08,270
because it would be nice to have them living in

5641
05:37:08,270 --> 05:37:12,000
... ... their own suites rather than have to live

5642
05:37:12,000 --> 05:37:14,250
in assisted living

5643
05:37:14,250 --> 05:37:16,700
thank you councillor Loveday

5644
05:37:16,700 --> 05:37:19,830
I think a cancer and your

5645
05:37:19,830 --> 05:37:22,130
hit the nail on the head with the being the

5646
05:37:22,130 --> 05:37:25,620
price point and if I think if it if these

5647
05:37:25,620 --> 05:37:27,870
are

5648
05:37:27,870 --> 05:37:32,300
... some of the more affordable units within here that

5649
05:37:32,300 --> 05:37:34,530
are at the meeting income then they would probably not

5650
05:37:34,530 --> 05:37:38,230
have any issue renting them up ... if there if

5651
05:37:38,230 --> 05:37:41,680
there are some of the more expensive units the name

5652
05:37:41,680 --> 05:37:45,430
they might ... so I I don't know mayor helps

5653
05:37:45,430 --> 05:37:49,000
what your comment was about discretion of staff and how

5654
05:37:49,000 --> 05:37:53,310
that applies to this but I think the the desire

5655
05:37:53,310 --> 05:37:57,010
here he's he's right ... and so I seconded it

5656
05:37:57,040 --> 05:38:01,030
but all we could hear clarifications well if you had

5657
05:38:01,030 --> 05:38:04,920
some time in my amendment I always have I mean

5658
05:38:04,920 --> 05:38:07,100
unless there's too many what yes go ahead up to

5659
05:38:07,100 --> 05:38:10,660
five percent of that and then that gives it discretion

5660
05:38:10,890 --> 05:38:14,870
the staff is sorted I I wasn't commenting I think

5661
05:38:14,870 --> 05:38:17,300
the five percent is fine ... what I was saying

5662
05:38:17,300 --> 05:38:20,560
is if we mandate that a certain percentage of the

5663
05:38:20,560 --> 05:38:24,890
affordable units also have to be accessible gotcha ... it

5664
05:38:24,930 --> 05:38:27,790
could prove difficult it may not but that's why I'm

5665
05:38:27,790 --> 05:38:30,420
saying let's leave it to staff and the applicant to

5666
05:38:30,420 --> 05:38:33,970
decide which portion of the

5667
05:38:33,970 --> 05:38:36,130
well I guess five percent of the if five percent

5668
05:38:36,130 --> 05:38:39,140
applies and it applies universal we are universally so five

5669
05:38:39,140 --> 05:38:41,830
percent of the affordable units would be accessible include and

5670
05:38:41,830 --> 05:38:44,580
five percent of all units is that is that the

5671
05:38:44,580 --> 05:38:47,030
intention and staff is that clear enough to you or

5672
05:38:47,030 --> 05:38:49,550
do you need different wording for that

5673
05:38:49,550 --> 05:38:51,690
if that's intentional it's

5674
05:38:51,690 --> 05:38:54,200
partial that would be fine okay that that is that's

5675
05:38:54,200 --> 05:38:56,330
good

5676
05:38:56,330 --> 05:38:59,390
great thank you okay everyone good with that amendment and

5677
05:38:59,390 --> 05:39:02,580
its meaning okay all those in favor of the amendment

5678
05:39:03,010 --> 05:39:06,350
any opposed okay none opposed that carries and I have

5679
05:39:06,350 --> 05:39:09,340
one moment please yes go ahead and I'm gonna need

5680
05:39:09,340 --> 05:39:13,890
to staff's assistance on this ... staff looking report you

5681
05:39:13,890 --> 05:39:18,270
indicated that you were looking for ... all the developer

5682
05:39:18,270 --> 05:39:22,430
would not ... at the greed to a certain size

5683
05:39:22,430 --> 05:39:27,670
or couldn't commit to a certain size of ...

5684
05:39:27,670 --> 05:39:31,580
a chunk cast spaces what ideally want put that B.

5685
05:39:31,680 --> 05:39:34,280
please

5686
05:39:34,280 --> 05:39:38,250
the developer had noted ... somewhere around four eighty but

5687
05:39:38,250 --> 05:39:40,730
it may be as low as was for forty so

5688
05:39:40,760 --> 05:39:44,030
perhaps erring on the side of the work that summer

5689
05:39:44,030 --> 05:39:47,640
come when would you like it to be a couple

5690
05:39:47,640 --> 05:39:51,200
for fifty okay let's do that then please second and

5691
05:39:51,200 --> 05:39:53,840
that's a seventy children take care of him four hundred

5692
05:39:53,870 --> 05:39:57,670
... that ... forty five square meters four hundred fifty

5693
05:39:57,670 --> 05:40:00,890
charge four hundred and fifty square meters

5694
05:40:00,890 --> 05:40:07,040
be designated for childcare second

5695
05:40:07,040 --> 05:40:11,250
at least at least thank you just when the amendment

5696
05:40:11,250 --> 05:40:14,750
that that at least the area thank you okay I

5697
05:40:14,750 --> 05:40:17,690
don't think that I think I've spoken about this before

5698
05:40:18,100 --> 05:40:21,490
thanks I any further discussion on that okay all those

5699
05:40:21,490 --> 05:40:26,120
in favor any opposed none opposed that carries ... anything

5700
05:40:26,120 --> 05:40:29,310
further

5701
05:40:29,310 --> 05:40:31,540
okay I guess I'll just a wrap up this very

5702
05:40:31,540 --> 05:40:36,310
long discussion to ... really thank council for working together

5703
05:40:36,310 --> 05:40:40,100
to making this application a stronger and better ... this

5704
05:40:40,100 --> 05:40:42,560
will be the first time that we test out our

5705
05:40:42,850 --> 05:40:45,280
we are welcome or were we welcome things that are

5706
05:40:45,280 --> 05:40:48,040
a bit above the OCP as long as they deliver

5707
05:40:48,070 --> 05:40:51,730
something to our community and we have admittedly push the

5708
05:40:51,730 --> 05:40:53,890
applicant here with more than what they came to the

5709
05:40:53,890 --> 05:40:57,060
table with ... but when we're building cities it has

5710
05:40:57,060 --> 05:41:00,270
to be done through negotiation and collaboration so we for

5711
05:41:00,270 --> 05:41:03,320
these conditions on the application ... there's a lot of

5712
05:41:03,320 --> 05:41:05,570
work between now and this coming back to the table

5713
05:41:05,570 --> 05:41:08,590
for our future consideration so I wanna thank staff in

5714
05:41:08,590 --> 05:41:10,280
advance for for the work because it's going to be

5715
05:41:10,280 --> 05:41:13,170
a lot ... and ... yeah we'll see what happens

5716
05:41:13,170 --> 05:41:16,880
when we get back yes councillor Loveday

5717
05:41:16,880 --> 05:41:18,520
yeah

5718
05:41:18,520 --> 05:41:21,810
hi I. D. so I I haven't haven't really commented

5719
05:41:21,810 --> 05:41:25,200
on the heights were were density to this to this

5720
05:41:25,200 --> 05:41:27,690
point ...

5721
05:41:27,690 --> 05:41:32,190
I see both both and all sides of the debate

5722
05:41:32,190 --> 05:41:36,060
and the discussion about what is the ... appropriate maximum

5723
05:41:36,060 --> 05:41:40,630
height for buildings within the city ... I

5724
05:41:40,630 --> 05:41:44,850
he you know ... ... sentimental portion of myself I

5725
05:41:44,850 --> 05:41:50,660
think I think this is too high and then another

5726
05:41:50,730 --> 05:41:53,130
part of me ... it knows that we are going

5727
05:41:53,130 --> 05:41:55,670
to need to continue to densify to meet both our

5728
05:41:55,670 --> 05:42:02,550
housing I am climate goals and ... another ... ...

5729
05:42:02,550 --> 05:42:07,350
aspect of me allows me to see that ... the

5730
05:42:07,400 --> 05:42:12,060
difference between ... a well designed ...

5731
05:42:12,060 --> 05:42:17,100
building that's ... thirty two stories is ... the camp

5732
05:42:17,100 --> 05:42:21,220
actually be less imposing than a poorly designed ... twenty

5733
05:42:21,260 --> 05:42:25,340
story building ... if if that building is ... why

5734
05:42:25,340 --> 05:42:29,560
didn't yeah champions ... shattering the street in ways that

5735
05:42:29,560 --> 05:42:33,310
it doesn't need to sell ... that is partly why

5736
05:42:33,310 --> 05:42:35,900
I I have ...

5737
05:42:35,900 --> 05:42:39,710
a lot of hesitation is that we're not getting on

5738
05:42:39,710 --> 05:42:44,050
the tallest buildings here we don't actually have

5739
05:42:44,050 --> 05:42:47,540
detailed designs and building permits in front of us that

5740
05:42:47,730 --> 05:42:51,280
I development permits that allows us to have the sure

5741
05:42:51,280 --> 05:42:55,790
the that this building ... one of which will be

5742
05:42:55,790 --> 05:42:59,460
the tallest building in the city if approved

5743
05:42:59,460 --> 05:43:02,270
is going to be reach excellence and I think when

5744
05:43:02,270 --> 05:43:04,730
we're looking at the tallest building in the city that's

5745
05:43:04,730 --> 05:43:08,430
what we need to be achieving is both ... excellence

5746
05:43:08,430 --> 05:43:12,120
in terms of urban design and architecture as well as

5747
05:43:12,120 --> 05:43:15,920
making sure that it's delivering on the many in multiple

5748
05:43:15,920 --> 05:43:19,730
goals of the OCP so when we're looking at a

5749
05:43:19,730 --> 05:43:23,750
project that is asking for a height and density well

5750
05:43:23,750 --> 05:43:28,000
beyond the OCP I think it's appropriate that we are

5751
05:43:28,000 --> 05:43:32,200
getting that in return ... if you through ... what

5752
05:43:32,660 --> 05:43:35,490
we've been calling amenities but I think that's actually ...

5753
05:43:35,690 --> 05:43:36,980
it's a

5754
05:43:36,980 --> 05:43:39,720
in some ways the wrong word ... I think what

5755
05:43:39,720 --> 05:43:43,170
we're looking for is a is a full project that

5756
05:43:43,200 --> 05:43:46,740
represents our community and what I see in front of

5757
05:43:46,740 --> 05:43:49,290
us now is a lot closer to that than what

5758
05:43:49,290 --> 05:43:52,090
I saw at the beginning of the day ... where

5759
05:43:52,090 --> 05:43:55,790
we have ... some more affordable units built in a

5760
05:43:55,790 --> 05:43:58,900
mix of two and three bedrooms ... more security around

5761
05:43:58,900 --> 05:44:03,890
the plaza accessible units ... and I think that that

5762
05:44:03,890 --> 05:44:05,700
to me

5763
05:44:05,700 --> 05:44:09,720
he's tipping me just in favor of voting in

5764
05:44:09,720 --> 05:44:12,490
voting in favor of this today I had been coming

5765
05:44:12,490 --> 05:44:14,780
in thinking that ... it

5766
05:44:14,780 --> 05:44:19,600
probably required a referral ... but with these amendments I

5767
05:44:19,600 --> 05:44:22,730
I do feel ... that I want to see what

5768
05:44:22,730 --> 05:44:25,790
comes back and I have a bit of a sense

5769
05:44:25,790 --> 05:44:29,200
of safety in that hearing that because of the OCP

5770
05:44:29,200 --> 05:44:32,680
referral this will come back to committee I am not

5771
05:44:32,680 --> 05:44:34,390
in a place where I could send this to public

5772
05:44:34,390 --> 05:44:38,580
hearing today even with these changes ... but overall ...

5773
05:44:38,840 --> 05:44:41,680
I I think that it's a stronger proposal now than

5774
05:44:41,680 --> 05:44:45,210
it was a few hours ago and ... I look

5775
05:44:45,210 --> 05:44:48,010
forward to seeing what comes back to this table fully

5776
05:44:48,010 --> 05:44:50,390
knowing that there are many in our community who think

5777
05:44:50,550 --> 05:44:53,390
who will ... expressed that these buildings are just to

5778
05:44:53,420 --> 05:44:56,280
talk and don't reflect a what they want to see

5779
05:44:56,280 --> 05:45:00,000
in their downtown okay I see councillor Thornton Joe councillor

5780
05:45:00,000 --> 05:45:02,300
Potts and councillor Andrew I also see that it's three

5781
05:45:02,300 --> 05:45:04,930
thirty so we need a motion to extend the meeting

5782
05:45:04,930 --> 05:45:06,510
I'm gonna look to the wisdom of the table for

5783
05:45:06,510 --> 05:45:08,820
what time that should be

5784
05:45:08,820 --> 05:45:12,160
four thirty okay so four thirty moved by councillor Andrew

5785
05:45:12,160 --> 05:45:15,450
is there a seconder seconded by councillor young all those

5786
05:45:15,450 --> 05:45:19,610
in favor any opposed none opposed that carries ... so

5787
05:45:19,610 --> 05:45:21,330
I forget the order that I saw the has I

5788
05:45:21,330 --> 05:45:24,190
think was Thornton Joe young Potts sorts are enjoying your

5789
05:45:24,190 --> 05:45:27,080
fought for the personal privilege yes when do you envision

5790
05:45:27,080 --> 05:45:29,430
having a recess

5791
05:45:29,430 --> 05:45:31,370
I had in the I thought this item was almost

5792
05:45:31,370 --> 05:45:34,230
done but isolated vision to recess right after it yeah

5793
05:45:34,370 --> 05:45:37,500
this looks like it's not only gives your five minute

5794
05:45:37,500 --> 05:45:48,150
recess no problem

5795
05:45:52,470 --> 05:45:55,630
I would like to call the meeting back to order

5796
05:45:55,630 --> 05:45:59,480
... just reminding us all we still have some open

5797
05:45:59,480 --> 05:46:02,440
business we still have our daytime council meeting and we

5798
05:46:02,440 --> 05:46:05,140
have a meeting this evening solstice will be mindful of

5799
05:46:05,140 --> 05:46:10,520
that as we proceed ... and

5800
05:46:10,520 --> 05:46:13,390
I believe councillor Thornton Joe was next when we sat

5801
05:46:13,390 --> 05:46:15,060
back down was that true I think it was councillor

5802
05:46:15,060 --> 05:46:17,650
Thornton Joe Andrew than Potts if that's the wrong order

5803
05:46:17,650 --> 05:46:20,120
I apologize with those are definitely the three speakers councillor

5804
05:46:20,120 --> 05:46:23,230
Thornton Joe so my understanding is another ma'am and can

5805
05:46:23,230 --> 05:46:25,990
be made is that correct that's correct

5806
05:46:25,990 --> 05:46:30,470
so I will add another amendment

5807
05:46:30,470 --> 05:46:33,050
and I haven't thought of the wording but ... my

5808
05:46:33,050 --> 05:46:37,210
colleague suggested that I at least try something so ...

5809
05:46:37,260 --> 05:46:41,720
that ...

5810
05:46:41,720 --> 05:46:45,450
that reduction

5811
05:46:45,450 --> 05:46:47,610
of height

5812
05:46:47,610 --> 05:46:52,360
be considered for towers C. D. and E.

5813
05:46:52,360 --> 05:46:55,330
okay is there a seconder

5814
05:46:55,330 --> 05:46:58,690
no seconder seconded by councillor young okay

5815
05:46:58,690 --> 05:47:00,690


5816
05:47:00,690 --> 05:47:05,020
I do think that heightens the concern I'm not as

5817
05:47:05,020 --> 05:47:11,000
concerned as concerned after twenty twenty one ...

5818
05:47:11,000 --> 05:47:14,800
... buildings at and I believe when we win the

5819
05:47:14,800 --> 05:47:18,100
staff said the to for it to come within the

5820
05:47:18,100 --> 05:47:21,730
density it would be three and a half stories on

5821
05:47:21,730 --> 05:47:25,970
each tower and I'd be fine of some of the

5822
05:47:25,970 --> 05:47:30,010
towers were to reduce but maybe the other towers were

5823
05:47:30,010 --> 05:47:32,690
to produce a little bit more so I think these

5824
05:47:32,690 --> 05:47:36,370
are all considerations with this without this in here I

5825
05:47:36,370 --> 05:47:40,410
believe that with all the members of the made ...

5826
05:47:40,410 --> 05:47:45,370
without any conversation about height and perhaps density of another

5827
05:47:45,420 --> 05:47:48,570
calling for like to do density but would mean that

5828
05:47:48,570 --> 05:47:51,250
the applicant must say I can do five percent assessable

5829
05:47:51,250 --> 05:47:55,900
I could do ... fifteen percent affordability but I am

5830
05:47:55,900 --> 05:47:58,260
now going to have to increase the height to thirty

5831
05:47:58,260 --> 05:48:01,880
five thirty seven stories so I think there needs to

5832
05:48:01,880 --> 05:48:05,150
be some understanding that that's not the direction I'm going

5833
05:48:05,150 --> 05:48:07,340
in it was just for clarity that's not the direction

5834
05:48:07,340 --> 05:48:09,930
that council has given its within the existing proposal that

5835
05:48:09,930 --> 05:48:13,710
these things be considered is unclear about this battle is

5836
05:48:13,710 --> 05:48:15,590
that clear to staff

5837
05:48:15,590 --> 05:48:18,510
do that and that is how I understood it

5838
05:48:18,510 --> 05:48:21,870
that it was within the existing proposal otherwise we're back

5839
05:48:21,870 --> 05:48:24,120
in the loop if you change the height or the

5840
05:48:24,120 --> 05:48:26,680
density you're back in the loop of what are we

5841
05:48:26,680 --> 05:48:29,570
referring out for the OCP consultation and should it come

5842
05:48:29,570 --> 05:48:32,720
back to council before you refer because you're referring a

5843
05:48:32,720 --> 05:48:34,930
specific proposal

5844
05:48:34,930 --> 05:48:36,800
what thanks for that but I know I'll leave this

5845
05:48:36,800 --> 05:48:39,810
just in there just because I

5846
05:48:39,810 --> 05:48:41,930
I feel I need to okay as a seconder counselor

5847
05:48:41,930 --> 05:48:43,780
young any comments

5848
05:48:43,780 --> 05:48:46,660
no

5849
05:48:46,660 --> 05:48:51,460
no okay any discussion councillor Isitt I support this amendment

5850
05:48:51,610 --> 05:48:54,660
... is exceeded previously during the debate I think ...

5851
05:48:54,660 --> 05:48:58,730
the buildings over reach in terms of height and they're

5852
05:48:58,730 --> 05:49:02,690
substantially inconsistent with the OCP by a factor of fifty

5853
05:49:02,690 --> 05:49:06,980
percent or more which is massive so I think reducing

5854
05:49:06,980 --> 05:49:11,390
the height ... is consistent with the city's policy and

5855
05:49:11,390 --> 05:49:14,260
it's an appropriate step to take

5856
05:49:14,260 --> 05:49:17,490
okay thank you I don't like to I don't I

5857
05:49:17,490 --> 05:49:19,370
hope this isn't I don't imagine this will pass given

5858
05:49:19,370 --> 05:49:21,420
the last debate but I do we just want to

5859
05:49:21,420 --> 05:49:25,430
really emphasize that a reduction in height ... will as

5860
05:49:25,590 --> 05:49:28,270
staff of informed us through the design phase if we

5861
05:49:28,270 --> 05:49:30,230
want to keep it rental and keep the same number

5862
05:49:30,230 --> 05:49:33,830
of units will resent real result in larger podiums and

5863
05:49:33,830 --> 05:49:37,710
shorter ... wider buildings which I don't think is is

5864
05:49:37,710 --> 05:49:39,970
positive so and I don't think staff to either which

5865
05:49:39,970 --> 05:49:41,920
is why we're kind of in the situation we are

5866
05:49:41,920 --> 05:49:45,020
with this design so ... I I think ... I

5867
05:49:45,020 --> 05:49:47,480
thought we did a really good job saying okay this

5868
05:49:47,480 --> 05:49:49,810
is our first test case for above the OCP and

5869
05:49:49,810 --> 05:49:51,680
what can be delivered I'm glad to councillor Thornton Joe

5870
05:49:51,680 --> 05:49:54,100
asked the question of clarity we don't mean that you

5871
05:49:54,100 --> 05:49:56,070
can go up to thirty five or forty stories we

5872
05:49:56,070 --> 05:49:58,920
mean within the existing proposal please deliver these things that

5873
05:49:58,920 --> 05:50:00,360
we've just spent time

5874
05:50:00,360 --> 05:50:02,680
... putting into our side of the negotiations so I

5875
05:50:02,680 --> 05:50:04,970
don't support this and I hope that we don't support

5876
05:50:04,970 --> 05:50:06,710
it so we can be consistent with what I thought

5877
05:50:06,710 --> 05:50:12,790
we had just achieved any further discussion councillor Loveday

5878
05:50:12,790 --> 05:50:17,790
yeah I think of sharing that the city's within the

5879
05:50:17,790 --> 05:50:20,290
current proposal and there's not an option for it to

5880
05:50:20,290 --> 05:50:24,510
come back higher ... I will be supporting the amendment

5881
05:50:24,750 --> 05:50:27,040
but I do appreciate that it was put on the

5882
05:50:27,040 --> 05:50:30,760
floor is it gave me that clarity ... and if

5883
05:50:31,910 --> 05:50:38,980
if the applicant can't or won't deliver the the subjects

5884
05:50:39,020 --> 05:50:42,000
... to the proposal that I hope they will ...

5885
05:50:42,000 --> 05:50:46,620
consider reduction I to me the is it's ... is

5886
05:50:46,800 --> 05:50:49,610
to be able to ...

5887
05:50:49,610 --> 05:50:52,700
faced with the community and say that this is what

5888
05:50:52,700 --> 05:50:55,180
we're getting out of this proposal that goes above and

5889
05:50:55,210 --> 05:50:58,770
beyond the OCP ... it really does need to have

5890
05:50:58,770 --> 05:51:04,090
that community benefit and offset the negative impacts so all

5891
05:51:04,090 --> 05:51:05,170
the

5892
05:51:05,170 --> 05:51:07,240
okay thank you I'm gonna call the question on the

5893
05:51:07,240 --> 05:51:10,270
amendment all those in favor of the amendment

5894
05:51:10,270 --> 05:51:14,000
councillor young concert Thornton Joe cancer as it all those

5895
05:51:14,000 --> 05:51:17,960
opposed ... the rest of us are opposed council do

5896
05:51:17,960 --> 05:51:19,270
I guess you didn't raise your hand so you're in

5897
05:51:19,270 --> 05:51:23,030
favor okay so the amendment fails our councillor Thornton Joe

5898
05:51:23,030 --> 05:51:24,840
anything further

5899
05:51:24,840 --> 05:51:27,020
okay

5900
05:51:27,020 --> 05:51:29,700
not on the amendment that says since the site did

5901
05:51:29,700 --> 05:51:32,580
not pass side will not be able to support of

5902
05:51:32,580 --> 05:51:36,310
the main motion thank you councillor Andrew

5903
05:51:36,310 --> 05:51:39,110
yes if you like to make another amendment that term

5904
05:51:39,160 --> 05:51:41,110
I think this is something we should be looking at

5905
05:51:41,140 --> 05:51:45,570
them and having a conversation with them Mike my colleagues

5906
05:51:45,570 --> 05:51:49,470
about noise in the city and as we start to

5907
05:51:49,470 --> 05:51:52,740
to build inspection we buildings large towers I'd like to

5908
05:51:52,740 --> 05:52:01,630
make sure that any that ... ... a noise mitigation

5909
05:52:01,630 --> 05:52:06,190
that be in place for all

5910
05:52:06,190 --> 05:52:09,520
rooftop equipment

5911
05:52:09,520 --> 05:52:12,050
is that getting a bit too technical I I again

5912
05:52:12,050 --> 05:52:13,660
I don't want us to get into the weeds well

5913
05:52:13,660 --> 05:52:17,510
I mean the thing is that ... so all we

5914
05:52:17,510 --> 05:52:20,010
do I guess that the question is do we want

5915
05:52:20,010 --> 05:52:25,240
to ... the building ... highrises we is ... allowed

5916
05:52:25,240 --> 05:52:28,590
to air conditioning or H. fax systems because the more

5917
05:52:28,590 --> 05:52:30,970
we do this in the city the more the noise

5918
05:52:31,310 --> 05:52:33,860
level is going to go on no we we absolutely

5919
05:52:33,860 --> 05:52:35,750
don't but just to staff is this is kind of

5920
05:52:35,750 --> 05:52:38,130
standard do we do need a motion is is this

5921
05:52:38,130 --> 05:52:40,840
something that just happens or just want some clarity from

5922
05:52:40,840 --> 05:52:42,730
staff is we could make motions about all manner of

5923
05:52:42,730 --> 05:52:46,010
things and but ms Meyer is a standard practice that

5924
05:52:46,010 --> 05:52:49,640
there's always mitigation there is there's standard practice at their

5925
05:52:49,640 --> 05:52:54,450
screening of mechanical equipment and that it's not unsightly I'm

5926
05:52:54,450 --> 05:52:58,900
not aware of any recent concerns related to noise related

5927
05:52:58,900 --> 05:53:02,140
to rooftop mechanical

5928
05:53:02,140 --> 05:53:04,370
there is one at the seniors home but I think

5929
05:53:04,370 --> 05:53:06,410
it has to do anyways okay that's fine so it

5930
05:53:06,410 --> 05:53:09,510
can be an amendment and ... is there a seconder

5931
05:53:10,180 --> 05:53:13,000
seconded by councillor Joe

5932
05:53:13,000 --> 05:53:15,460
yeah councillor Joe as a seconder then councillor Dubow on

5933
05:53:15,460 --> 05:53:19,990
the amendment yes I don't seconded term considering that there's

5934
05:53:20,200 --> 05:53:24,990
seems to be ... delays in getting our noise bylaw

5935
05:53:25,350 --> 05:53:27,980
updated so I think this is something that we're and

5936
05:53:27,980 --> 05:53:30,580
we're going to have to add more and more until

5937
05:53:30,580 --> 05:53:32,940
our noise bylaws updated

5938
05:53:32,940 --> 05:53:36,620
councillor Dubow on the amendment

5939
05:53:36,620 --> 05:53:41,580
thanks mayor helps I think and it seems facing out

5940
05:53:41,610 --> 05:53:47,050
of the developments it could mean that nonstop construction noise

5941
05:53:47,080 --> 05:53:52,470
dust destruction for the next five years minimum so with

5942
05:53:52,470 --> 05:53:56,890
this also address all no noise this doesn't address construction

5943
05:53:56,890 --> 05:54:00,620
noise there's nothing I can do about that yeah exactly

5944
05:54:00,620 --> 05:54:03,450
that's what I saw but it's a

5945
05:54:03,450 --> 05:54:06,060
you can of noise that's what I was thinking but

5946
05:54:06,790 --> 05:54:11,930
I the so I would ask the mover if they

5947
05:54:11,960 --> 05:54:16,040
consider all noises or they would on one twelve trace

5948
05:54:16,640 --> 05:54:19,210
the rooftop equipments

5949
05:54:19,210 --> 05:54:21,160
okay Sir I'm just gonna cut and we've got guys

5950
05:54:21,190 --> 05:54:24,120
we we can't start making motions about construction noise could

5951
05:54:24,120 --> 05:54:27,590
this one is very reasonable the construction noises construction noise

5952
05:54:28,020 --> 05:54:29,690
so

5953
05:54:29,690 --> 05:54:32,790
I guess in Kelso W. so I'm councillor Andrew a

5954
05:54:32,790 --> 05:54:35,830
he did ask you a question so and I think

5955
05:54:35,830 --> 05:54:40,020
my my ... my amendment is exactly as as intended

5956
05:54:40,020 --> 05:54:43,660
to be because we cannot will on construction noise otherwise

5957
05:54:43,660 --> 05:54:46,950
we'd never get anything built up but ... definitely let's

5958
05:54:47,210 --> 05:54:49,380
I'd like to leave that as thank you for the

5959
05:54:49,380 --> 05:54:53,450
suggestion thank you councillor Dubow anything further

5960
05:54:53,450 --> 05:54:56,820
nothing further but said and I I just wanted to

5961
05:54:56,950 --> 05:54:58,390
ask

5962
05:54:58,390 --> 05:55:03,090
I was seeking more clarification because the definitely it means

5963
05:55:03,090 --> 05:55:06,990
five years open honest of construction noise

5964
05:55:06,990 --> 05:55:08,940
thank you I appreciate that and I'm living next door

5965
05:55:08,940 --> 05:55:12,050
to nonstop construction noise now with Vic high under construction

5966
05:55:12,050 --> 05:55:13,750
and the delay on that one for another year so

5967
05:55:13,750 --> 05:55:18,880
I get it okay Allen this amendment any discussion all

5968
05:55:18,880 --> 05:55:23,360
those in favor any opposed none opposed that carries ...

5969
05:55:23,390 --> 05:55:25,890
councillor Potts over to you

5970
05:55:25,890 --> 05:55:27,540
I just set up a question to staff on the

5971
05:55:27,540 --> 05:55:32,620
tenant assistance policy it to a figure that by the

5972
05:55:32,620 --> 05:55:35,780
time this referral comes back at the tenant assistance a

5973
05:55:35,780 --> 05:55:40,750
completed tenant assistance policy would come back as well

5974
05:55:40,750 --> 05:55:43,490
yes to the mat ... I believe that that tenant

5975
05:55:43,490 --> 05:55:46,360
assistance plan is ninety nine percent complete to the just

5976
05:55:46,360 --> 05:55:48,890
waiting on a few outstanding pieces so it is likely

5977
05:55:48,890 --> 05:55:50,520
that by the time it comes back that would be

5978
05:55:50,520 --> 05:55:55,800
in place thank you that's all councillor Dubow

5979
05:55:55,800 --> 05:55:59,390
thanks mayor helps and I'm speaking on the main

5980
05:55:59,390 --> 05:56:01,840
motions that's right yeah

5981
05:56:01,840 --> 05:56:05,570
yeah Hey I think this a lot has been said

5982
05:56:05,570 --> 05:56:09,760
... and just continuing to that he we speaking of

5983
05:56:09,760 --> 05:56:14,020
a classmate and I think also we have to sink

5984
05:56:14,570 --> 05:56:19,490
tearing down buildings it's not also a climate and solution

5985
05:56:20,170 --> 05:56:23,490
and I have a question to staff would

5986
05:56:23,490 --> 05:56:27,490
with our new bylaw in place by the time construction

5987
05:56:27,490 --> 05:56:29,170
begins

5988
05:56:29,170 --> 05:56:39,640
the D. demand of fiction by low that we've passed

5989
05:56:39,640 --> 05:56:43,210
the reusable I'm a building material that only applies to

5990
05:56:43,210 --> 05:56:45,440
single family homes

5991
05:56:45,440 --> 05:56:47,760
thanks for reminding me

5992
05:56:47,760 --> 05:56:52,130
so I I think speaking of a climate justice aspect

5993
05:56:52,130 --> 05:56:55,530
of it tearing down a lot of buildings it's not

5994
05:56:55,530 --> 05:57:00,260
a is the climate and sustainable way and I think

5995
05:57:00,670 --> 05:57:04,120
that is not good for not only for the climate

5996
05:57:04,120 --> 05:57:12,110
but also displacement and gentrification of neighborhoods ... D. I

5997
05:57:12,110 --> 05:57:16,240
think you we are going over the OCP which I

5998
05:57:16,730 --> 05:57:20,100
agree with the council of days Cinemax but did there

5999
05:57:20,100 --> 05:57:23,460
has to be value added to that eve if there

6000
05:57:23,460 --> 05:57:26,930
is a bonus then they must be of value to

6001
05:57:27,310 --> 05:57:31,410
to the city and the value to the community and

6002
05:57:31,410 --> 05:57:35,830
and that's why I was asking the my previous question

6003
05:57:35,830 --> 05:57:40,040
in terms of it ends and into suffice in an

6004
05:57:40,070 --> 05:57:44,510
affordable housing so I look forward to see the fifteen

6005
05:57:44,540 --> 05:57:51,780
percent units and on how the that would come

6006
05:57:51,780 --> 05:57:53,450
but it

6007
05:57:53,450 --> 05:57:57,110
I think hi the ... I'm I'm happy to see

6008
05:57:57,140 --> 05:58:02,230
all these amendment to that has being done in terms

6009
05:58:02,260 --> 05:58:07,760
of is it looks better than from the beginning and

6010
05:58:07,760 --> 05:58:12,780
I know you really appreciate my colleagues ... working through

6011
05:58:12,780 --> 05:58:17,450
this interim is making sure that at least we have

6012
05:58:18,010 --> 05:58:22,730
and more of a sense of five foot ability right

6013
05:58:22,730 --> 05:58:28,390
now ... thing than the beginning and I look forward

6014
05:58:28,420 --> 05:58:33,480
to see more detail the fool of the tenants and

6015
05:58:33,980 --> 05:58:39,350
assistance location at the location plan ... and what that

6016
05:58:39,440 --> 05:58:44,680
include this in details but overall and I'm happy with

6017
05:58:44,680 --> 05:58:49,030
the amendment but I I do not support the project

6018
05:58:49,060 --> 05:58:52,890
going to public hearing until I see everything has been

6019
05:58:52,890 --> 05:58:54,360
done

6020
05:58:54,360 --> 05:58:57,120
thank you very much I'm gonna call the question all

6021
05:58:57,120 --> 05:58:59,340
those in favor of the motion

6022
05:58:59,340 --> 05:59:04,190
those opposed opposed our councillor Thornton Joe ... young eyes

6023
05:59:04,190 --> 05:59:07,870
it and double so that carries okay we have one

6024
05:59:07,870 --> 05:59:11,410
more item of business on committee agenda and that's a

6025
05:59:11,410 --> 05:59:13,850
motion from council is Andrew and Thornton-Joe's will look to

6026
05:59:13,850 --> 05:59:16,140
the mover and seconder and then to others for comment

6027
05:59:16,140 --> 05:59:19,380
or amendment

6028
05:59:19,380 --> 05:59:25,110
thank you very much ... second convolutional so cancer and

6029
05:59:25,110 --> 05:59:29,800
... is moving councillor Thornton-Joe's seconding yes okay ... I

6030
05:59:30,500 --> 05:59:34,770
just like to ... moved from that as soon as

6031
05:59:34,770 --> 05:59:37,580
possible ...

6032
05:59:37,580 --> 05:59:40,450
we open the following road in Beacon Hill park up

6033
05:59:40,450 --> 05:59:44,740
you to swing bridge way Hey would play from he

6034
05:59:44,740 --> 05:59:48,550
would have been you to bridge way that to to

6035
05:59:48,550 --> 05:59:52,540
work with the disability community to meet equitable access for

6036
05:59:52,540 --> 05:59:55,930
facilities and amenities in Beacon Hill park through in the

6037
05:59:55,930 --> 06:00:00,670
future road closures and three to ensure any future closures

6038
06:00:00,670 --> 06:00:05,660
and here to the British Columbia human rights legislation ...

6039
06:00:06,010 --> 06:00:10,170
I'd like to make just one very quick amendment in

6040
06:00:10,200 --> 06:00:13,390
item two there were icy bridge way can we please

6041
06:00:13,390 --> 06:00:16,880
put that from arbutus

6042
06:00:16,880 --> 06:00:23,260
... Bridgeway from hot cutis ... two Hey would embarrass

6043
06:00:23,260 --> 06:00:25,640
him saying that as Mr Douglas are in number two

6044
06:00:25,930 --> 06:00:28,970
yeah Bridgeway from arbutus to he would just so it's

6045
06:00:28,970 --> 06:00:31,720
clear that we're not going to open up the bridge

6046
06:00:31,720 --> 06:00:34,970
to traffic and buses just to let me that clear

6047
06:00:34,970 --> 06:00:41,190
that sorry ... in in sorry in one point two

6048
06:00:41,190 --> 06:00:44,710
there we go Bridgeway from

6049
06:00:44,710 --> 06:00:47,500
arbutus

6050
06:00:47,500 --> 06:00:50,880
can you just repeat that councillor ... ... from OP

6051
06:00:50,880 --> 06:00:56,240
utis ... way to hate which way okay

6052
06:00:56,240 --> 06:00:59,300
yeah okay thank you okay do we need to need

6053
06:00:59,300 --> 06:01:01,310
to

6054
06:01:01,310 --> 06:01:04,960
yeah no regrets ... I think this is a very

6055
06:01:04,960 --> 06:01:08,920
important ... ... there has been a lot of discussion

6056
06:01:08,920 --> 06:01:12,190
on this and this is not about cars this is

6057
06:01:12,240 --> 06:01:15,440
about people the people in the cars and giving them

6058
06:01:15,440 --> 06:01:19,670
access to facilities and amenities that are located within the

6059
06:01:19,670 --> 06:01:24,930
park and ... I try to create the ... the

6060
06:01:24,960 --> 06:01:27,680
motion so that really what I could do is that

6061
06:01:27,910 --> 06:01:31,460
staff could look to the future closes income at closures

6062
06:01:31,460 --> 06:01:35,030
or additional vegetation of the the area but just come

6063
06:01:35,030 --> 06:01:39,970
back with some with ... with any ... any adjustments

6064
06:01:39,970 --> 06:01:46,020
that to work with the applicant consultation disability community and

6065
06:01:46,020 --> 06:01:49,800
also do not to restrict took place in the into

6066
06:01:49,800 --> 06:01:54,150
Burton ... on them so it meets the MPC human

6067
06:01:54,150 --> 06:01:59,050
rights legislation ... that's my motivation I think we pretty

6068
06:01:59,050 --> 06:02:02,180
well know what where this comes from where it's going

6069
06:02:02,760 --> 06:02:05,160
thank you accounts are and we've got councillor Thornton Joe

6070
06:02:05,160 --> 06:02:09,270
kills resident myself you know just some quickly that ...

6071
06:02:09,330 --> 06:02:11,240
when Cole would hit

6072
06:02:11,240 --> 06:02:14,990
it was considered

6073
06:02:14,990 --> 06:02:19,090
so appropriate to give some social distancing and to close

6074
06:02:19,090 --> 06:02:21,100
some of these roads and

6075
06:02:21,100 --> 06:02:25,230
we did this in in a timely manner ... because

6076
06:02:25,230 --> 06:02:28,290
it's so cold it was upon us ... but in

6077
06:02:28,290 --> 06:02:33,150
reflection ... there were definitely some positive ...

6078
06:02:33,150 --> 06:02:36,980
... things that are cheap by the closures but there

6079
06:02:36,980 --> 06:02:42,600
was also some negative ... ... affects of that ...

6080
06:02:42,600 --> 06:02:47,340
made that ... where equity was concerned was was was

6081
06:02:47,480 --> 06:02:51,180
was lost and I and I think that ... we

6082
06:02:51,180 --> 06:02:55,110
could still make these considerations but I think the considerations

6083
06:02:55,110 --> 06:02:58,470
need to be done in a way that is so

6084
06:02:58,780 --> 06:03:02,290
that we work with does that we need to consult

6085
06:03:02,560 --> 06:03:06,120
to make sure that ...

6086
06:03:06,120 --> 06:03:10,820
the sensibility ... issues are addressed and so I think

6087
06:03:10,820 --> 06:03:14,770
this allows us to go back to be called it

6088
06:03:15,160 --> 06:03:20,090
and then have those discussions in a meaningful fashion and

6089
06:03:20,120 --> 06:03:23,490
then of course when we talk about accessibility into means

6090
06:03:23,490 --> 06:03:26,770
different things to different people and you know whether it

6091
06:03:26,770 --> 06:03:32,080
is a senior who who ... just enjoys ... you

6092
06:03:32,080 --> 06:03:35,580
know that the the drive thru and memories of the

6093
06:03:35,580 --> 06:03:40,030
past ... but I think it's really important that we

6094
06:03:40,030 --> 06:03:43,310
do this correctly and ... I have to read consultations

6095
06:03:43,310 --> 06:03:46,210
so I as I was able to support those some

6096
06:03:46,210 --> 06:03:49,660
motion and I look forward to ... what comes ...

6097
06:03:49,740 --> 06:03:51,540
forward from there

6098
06:03:51,540 --> 06:03:53,450
okay thank you very much accounts are as it and

6099
06:03:53,450 --> 06:03:55,620
then myself

6100
06:03:55,620 --> 06:03:58,790
... thinks ... is it possible to divide the motion

6101
06:03:59,290 --> 06:04:03,070
to one two and three always possible to divide okay

6102
06:04:03,100 --> 06:04:07,630
... I'm gonna propose an amendment to number two

6103
06:04:07,630 --> 06:04:13,330
and I may need staff's assistance

6104
06:04:13,330 --> 06:04:15,590
... just because I do I do have a different

6105
06:04:15,590 --> 06:04:18,620
device ... don't have an access to information that we

6106
06:04:18,620 --> 06:04:20,980
had last week ...

6107
06:04:20,980 --> 06:04:23,020


6108
06:04:23,020 --> 06:04:28,510
what's the language we've been using around minimal impacts on

6109
06:04:28,540 --> 06:04:31,220
the public's use of the park

6110
06:04:31,220 --> 06:04:33,500
does anyone

6111
06:04:33,500 --> 06:04:36,490
essentially what we're trying to balance in terms of balancing

6112
06:04:36,490 --> 06:04:40,970
accessibility ... with ... well then in different have a

6113
06:04:40,970 --> 06:04:45,540
minimal impact of motor vehicles on the park Sir Mr

6114
06:04:45,540 --> 06:04:53,080
source could you remember the language

6115
06:04:53,080 --> 06:04:56,370
I'm sorry their home site I do not so the

6116
06:04:56,370 --> 06:04:58,950
have any kind of language ready for for what councillor

6117
06:04:58,950 --> 06:05:02,150
... I just looking for but I'm I'm looking it

6118
06:05:02,150 --> 06:05:06,240
up right now okay yes so maybe all ... yes

6119
06:05:06,240 --> 06:05:10,410
essentially

6120
06:05:10,410 --> 06:05:12,370


6121
06:05:12,370 --> 06:05:15,520
yes sorry for not being efficient colleagues ... I might

6122
06:05:15,520 --> 06:05:17,550
be able to help because I've got a pretty looking

6123
06:05:17,550 --> 06:05:20,540
for is essentially help or give up some placeholder wording

6124
06:05:20,540 --> 06:05:22,960
and hopefully can be refined so I'd like to move

6125
06:05:22,960 --> 06:05:26,680
that number to be amended ... to read so where

6126
06:05:26,680 --> 06:05:29,950
it says to meet equitable access I've like to propose

6127
06:05:29,950 --> 06:05:32,850
some other wording so to work with the disability community

6128
06:05:33,400 --> 06:05:37,260
to appropriately balance

6129
06:05:37,260 --> 06:05:38,790


6130
06:05:38,790 --> 06:05:44,250
equitable access to facilities and amenities in Beacon Hill park

6131
06:05:44,250 --> 06:05:47,210
through any

6132
06:05:47,210 --> 06:05:53,850
current or future road closures

6133
06:05:53,850 --> 06:05:55,830
and then at the end of that sentence at the

6134
06:05:55,830 --> 06:06:00,980
words with well well the technician to

6135
06:06:00,980 --> 06:06:06,170
appropriately balance with

6136
06:06:06,170 --> 06:06:09,510
reduction

6137
06:06:09,510 --> 06:06:15,680
in the impacts of motor vehicle traffic

6138
06:06:15,680 --> 06:06:19,090
on all park users

6139
06:06:19,090 --> 06:06:23,020
including on people with disabilities

6140
06:06:23,020 --> 06:06:25,680
all second it's

6141
06:06:25,680 --> 06:06:28,200
it should be cleaned up but ... okay ... motivate

6142
06:06:28,200 --> 06:06:30,660
the moat the intention here is I think we do

6143
06:06:30,660 --> 06:06:34,130
have to give clear direction to staff ... that it

6144
06:06:34,130 --> 06:06:37,390
is a priority for council to ensure that people with

6145
06:06:37,390 --> 06:06:42,170
disabilities have access to our parks including facilities and amenities

6146
06:06:42,340 --> 06:06:45,700
within the parks ... and also I think to signal

6147
06:06:45,730 --> 06:06:49,450
that it's a priority of council to reduce the impact

6148
06:06:49,450 --> 06:06:53,170
of motor vehicles on all park users including on people

6149
06:06:53,170 --> 06:06:57,240
with disabilities we need to recognize that those two objectives

6150
06:06:57,580 --> 06:07:00,910
aren't identical and that there is a requirement for some

6151
06:07:00,910 --> 06:07:05,600
balancing that we may need to enlist some external expertise

6152
06:07:05,900 --> 06:07:10,350
to determine how these objectives can be balanced effectively ...

6153
06:07:10,350 --> 06:07:12,540
but I think it is important for council to give

6154
06:07:12,540 --> 06:07:15,710
that direction ... and I think if staff team that

6155
06:07:15,710 --> 06:07:19,790
they need some additional resources whether potentially beginning the work

6156
06:07:19,790 --> 06:07:23,660
with funding from this year's contingency fund and potentially resuming

6157
06:07:23,660 --> 06:07:27,710
it we're continuing it in the twenty twenty two financial

6158
06:07:27,710 --> 06:07:30,560
year ... I think we should move forward with this

6159
06:07:30,560 --> 06:07:34,340
work without delay so that's my rationale for including the

6160
06:07:34,340 --> 06:07:38,910
language around current closures as well as future ... and

6161
06:07:38,910 --> 06:07:42,130
so I guess we'll hopefully a majority will support these

6162
06:07:42,130 --> 06:07:43,530
amendments

6163
06:07:43,530 --> 06:07:46,990
thanks ... my ... my I second it will speak

6164
06:07:46,990 --> 06:07:49,290
next on the list other speakers I I was going

6165
06:07:49,290 --> 06:07:51,400
to propose something similar but to be a bit more

6166
06:07:51,400 --> 06:07:55,300
direct about it switches to work with the disability community

6167
06:07:55,630 --> 06:08:00,460
to properly balance the needs but ... Mr Slee ECRI

6168
06:08:00,460 --> 06:08:03,790
there he's not there okay I couldn't see behind councillor

6169
06:08:03,790 --> 06:08:06,190
Andrew ...

6170
06:08:06,190 --> 06:08:09,280
I was just gonna make it very specific ... was

6171
06:08:09,740 --> 06:08:14,080
on the proposed roads above or something so I guess

6172
06:08:14,080 --> 06:08:17,530
my question is what what would staff to do with

6173
06:08:17,530 --> 06:08:21,070
this direction because the direction one is immediately open all

6174
06:08:21,070 --> 06:08:24,200
road so then I I I support I support the

6175
06:08:24,200 --> 06:08:25,970
spirit of this I just wanna make sure I just

6176
06:08:25,970 --> 06:08:28,530
wanna know what would happen like what would staff's point

6177
06:08:28,530 --> 06:08:31,730
of order to explain my previous speech to show up

6178
06:08:31,760 --> 06:08:34,710
my intention is not to support one just to disclose

6179
06:08:34,710 --> 06:08:37,550
that I intend to I would vote in favor an

6180
06:08:37,550 --> 06:08:40,650
amended number two and three and I would be voting

6181
06:08:40,650 --> 06:08:44,380
against one as I have previously

6182
06:08:44,380 --> 06:08:46,300
and to proceed okay that's helpful so then I'm going

6183
06:08:46,300 --> 06:08:49,380
to make an in at number two ... an amendment

6184
06:08:49,380 --> 06:08:53,430
to amend number two ...

6185
06:08:53,430 --> 06:08:58,010
which is to work with the disability community to meet

6186
06:08:58,010 --> 06:09:01,260
... so at that they appropriately balance equitable access that's

6187
06:09:01,260 --> 06:09:05,560
fine to facilities and amenities in Beacon Hill park through

6188
06:09:05,560 --> 06:09:10,070
the closure

6189
06:09:10,070 --> 06:09:13,920
or Paul park or partial closure

6190
06:09:13,920 --> 06:09:17,920
all of the above roads

6191
06:09:17,920 --> 06:09:23,850
is there a seconder

6192
06:09:23,850 --> 06:09:28,570
K. there's no seconder okay

6193
06:09:28,570 --> 06:09:31,300
if I motivated before amending then you might so basically

6194
06:09:31,300 --> 06:09:34,930
would take it number one says immediately open thank you

6195
06:09:34,930 --> 06:09:38,470
councillor alto thank you number one says immediately opened all

6196
06:09:38,470 --> 06:09:44,230
the roads ... I I I don't support immediately open

6197
06:09:44,230 --> 06:09:48,360
all the roads I do support looking at those three

6198
06:09:48,390 --> 06:09:53,830
roads identified three passengers identified by councillor Andrew ... through

6199
06:09:53,830 --> 06:09:58,240
the lands that has been put forward ... by councillor

6200
06:09:58,240 --> 06:10:01,680
resident councillor Andrew so it it's it's that balancing act

6201
06:10:02,050 --> 06:10:05,090
... what I didn't like about the original motion future

6202
06:10:05,090 --> 06:10:07,750
road closures is just like it might happen sometime in

6203
06:10:07,750 --> 06:10:12,080
the future ... so I guess the number two is

6204
06:10:12,080 --> 06:10:13,900
loose enough that if we do need to open the

6205
06:10:13,900 --> 06:10:16,550
roads right now to meet human rights ... issues and

6206
06:10:16,550 --> 06:10:19,850
that's fine ... but I want the consideration to be

6207
06:10:19,850 --> 06:10:22,880
specifically with respect to these these three areas because those

6208
06:10:22,880 --> 06:10:25,000
are the ones of the public have come to appreciate

6209
06:10:25,000 --> 06:10:27,460
so it might be clunky and we might be stacked

6210
06:10:27,460 --> 06:10:30,210
up here but I I actually would support number one

6211
06:10:30,210 --> 06:10:32,230
as long as it's not off in the future that

6212
06:10:32,230 --> 06:10:34,210
we might consider them but we consider them kind of

6213
06:10:34,210 --> 06:10:37,400
immediately so that's the rationale for the amendment to the

6214
06:10:37,400 --> 06:10:40,120
amendment councillor alto as a generous second or do you

6215
06:10:40,120 --> 06:10:42,250
have anything to add and then I'll look at other

6216
06:10:42,250 --> 06:10:45,430
speakers ... yeah I did second so we discuss and

6217
06:10:45,430 --> 06:10:48,750
I'm not I'm not sure if I support this I'm

6218
06:10:49,080 --> 06:10:51,530
just thinking it through because a

6219
06:10:51,530 --> 06:10:55,500
I'm not sure I understand how if too was adopted

6220
06:10:55,500 --> 06:10:59,880
that it wouldn't preclude adopting one because it seems to

6221
06:10:59,880 --> 06:11:02,830
me that two is based on the

6222
06:11:02,830 --> 06:11:05,960
either closing or at least partially closing the roads where

6223
06:11:05,960 --> 06:11:10,990
is the first section is about closing the roads so

6224
06:11:10,990 --> 06:11:13,080
hello I'm a little unsure as to how the two

6225
06:11:13,080 --> 06:11:17,070
could work compatibility but I'm I'm happy to seconded it

6226
06:11:17,070 --> 06:11:19,400
for conversation okay thanks yet it might be a bit

6227
06:11:19,400 --> 06:11:22,450
clunky I've got councillor Potts counselor young councillor Andrew and

6228
06:11:22,480 --> 06:11:24,260
then I'll come back myself to try and explain what

6229
06:11:24,260 --> 06:11:26,120
I'm trying to achieve which I think is a balance

6230
06:11:26,120 --> 06:11:28,490
between what everyone else is also trying to do so

6231
06:11:28,490 --> 06:11:31,690
councillor Potts go ahead and make a discussion me better

6232
06:11:31,690 --> 06:11:35,680
for ... if Mr silly returns to the conversation but

6233
06:11:35,830 --> 06:11:40,470
we ... previously I discussed some work that staff was

6234
06:11:40,470 --> 06:11:43,090
doing in terms of ... I'm looking at the road

6235
06:11:43,090 --> 06:11:44,740
to become a park and I wanted to understand that

6236
06:11:44,740 --> 06:11:46,800
a bit more because I I from what I understood

6237
06:11:46,800 --> 06:11:49,390
there was some work under way driven by start stuff

6238
06:11:49,630 --> 06:11:52,070
does anyone object moving this to is Mr Slee gone

6239
06:11:52,070 --> 06:11:53,950
for the day we just move this next Thursday when

6240
06:11:53,950 --> 06:11:56,220
he's here

6241
06:11:56,220 --> 06:12:01,960
you object okay then no problem Mr Mr Belafonte

6242
06:12:01,960 --> 06:12:04,910
... thank you madam I did talk to about this

6243
06:12:04,910 --> 06:12:07,950
with the direct the city a peaceful they select I

6244
06:12:07,950 --> 06:12:10,260
hope you know can off some comments on his behalf

6245
06:12:10,760 --> 06:12:13,570
... and I think before right I specifically respond to

6246
06:12:13,570 --> 06:12:18,850
your comment councillor ... ... I think west staff were

6247
06:12:19,050 --> 06:12:23,940
at the moment laws that ... regardless of whether the

6248
06:12:24,190 --> 06:12:28,310
... pop wonder if the motion is adopted or not

6249
06:12:28,790 --> 06:12:32,510
... stuff would be bringing forward ... as part of

6250
06:12:32,510 --> 06:12:36,030
the twenty twenty two financial plan ... proposals to and

6251
06:12:36,030 --> 06:12:38,860
to take a more comprehensive and fulsome review of all

6252
06:12:38,860 --> 06:12:43,320
the pathways and the drive files within the park so

6253
06:12:43,320 --> 06:12:46,670
that's where we were before ... these are ... amendments

6254
06:12:46,670 --> 06:12:49,980
work with being contemplated

6255
06:12:49,980 --> 06:12:52,680
a to your point ... I mean that and I

6256
06:12:52,680 --> 06:12:56,050
make that point because I think ... given some of

6257
06:12:56,050 --> 06:13:00,770
the background stuff's sort of current view is that more

6258
06:13:00,770 --> 06:13:05,930
comprehensive ... entire look at all the all the connections

6259
06:13:05,960 --> 06:13:10,010
would be preferable rather than an incremental approach never the

6260
06:13:10,010 --> 06:13:13,690
less ... you are correct councillor that stuff before today

6261
06:13:13,690 --> 06:13:18,400
had been looking at some some options ... in preparation

6262
06:13:18,400 --> 06:13:22,840
potentially for an alternative ... way forward our preference would

6263
06:13:22,840 --> 06:13:26,840
be that it would be thoughtful some comprehensive look

6264
06:13:26,840 --> 06:13:29,600
... thanks for that clarity I think that yeah all

6265
06:13:29,600 --> 06:13:33,360
of this work whether it ... it

6266
06:13:33,360 --> 06:13:35,910
past to this motion today are looking at the staff

6267
06:13:35,910 --> 06:13:38,970
work will require staffing resourcing and budget budgeting and I

6268
06:13:38,970 --> 06:13:41,950
think that ... just given that the work is under

6269
06:13:41,950 --> 06:13:44,790
way I I think it would be preferable to rather

6270
06:13:44,790 --> 06:13:48,000
than continually I make small amendment ... bring motions and

6271
06:13:48,000 --> 06:13:50,640
amendments by count out council the council table like this

6272
06:13:50,640 --> 06:13:54,020
to have a fulsome review and I think I read

6273
06:13:54,050 --> 06:13:58,190
a favor following this the staff direction and to to

6274
06:13:58,190 --> 06:14:01,930
really look at this appropriately and make sure that ...

6275
06:14:02,640 --> 06:14:06,400
... that we are at intending to all the accessible

6276
06:14:06,400 --> 06:14:09,210
needs and and pick up mentioning as an appropriate balance

6277
06:14:09,210 --> 06:14:12,590
of an equitable access I think ... we can tweak

6278
06:14:12,590 --> 06:14:14,340
all we want but I think we really need that

6279
06:14:14,340 --> 06:14:16,120
the good work to be done and then of course

6280
06:14:16,120 --> 06:14:18,810
this work will require budgeting so might as well just

6281
06:14:18,840 --> 06:14:20,780
stay the course

6282
06:14:20,780 --> 06:14:23,830
thank you are councillor young councillor Andrew counselor Loveday and

6283
06:14:23,830 --> 06:14:27,280
then myself I think I understand my amendment now

6284
06:14:27,280 --> 06:14:31,160
I agree with counselor Potts so we should ... look

6285
06:14:31,160 --> 06:14:35,140
at a full set of options I agree with counselor

6286
06:14:35,140 --> 06:14:41,350
also that the ... amendment to the amendment ... referring

6287
06:14:41,350 --> 06:14:45,060
to the above roads ... doesn't make sense if we

6288
06:14:45,060 --> 06:14:48,300
don't adopt one number one and now I am in

6289
06:14:48,300 --> 06:14:51,290
the same camp as councillor eyes that I plan to

6290
06:14:51,290 --> 06:14:57,880
vote against option one hi I think ... news

6291
06:14:57,880 --> 06:15:01,360
and I think we need a full ... study I've

6292
06:15:01,630 --> 06:15:05,460
said before I I agree that probably there should be

6293
06:15:05,460 --> 06:15:09,140
some more openings I think there should be better access

6294
06:15:09,630 --> 06:15:16,350
to our ... our washrooms today I don't agree that

6295
06:15:16,950 --> 06:15:21,460
whatever existed in the past is the best situation and

6296
06:15:21,490 --> 06:15:26,050
that the principle that the human rights commission will adopt

6297
06:15:26,310 --> 06:15:30,060
is once you open a road to traffic it's always

6298
06:15:30,060 --> 06:15:35,250
gonna stay open to me ... that's that's not a

6299
06:15:35,250 --> 06:15:38,880
principle is and somebody said there are a number of

6300
06:15:38,880 --> 06:15:43,950
groups of the mobility impaired ... some of those people

6301
06:15:44,210 --> 06:15:49,200
are not in the situation of either having access to

6302
06:15:49,200 --> 06:15:53,230
a private automobile that they are able to drive even

6303
06:15:53,230 --> 06:15:56,580
though they are able to to walk or use a

6304
06:15:56,580 --> 06:16:01,330
wheelchair for a long distance or ... in in in

6305
06:16:01,330 --> 06:16:04,560
... the camp of having somebody

6306
06:16:04,560 --> 06:16:08,310
who is able to drive them through the park and

6307
06:16:08,540 --> 06:16:11,330
that's the camp that seems to we seem to have

6308
06:16:11,330 --> 06:16:14,860
heard most from but it's not the only a group

6309
06:16:14,930 --> 06:16:19,290
of those with mobility impairments I think a fresh look

6310
06:16:19,290 --> 06:16:23,460
at this whole thing as our staff has suggested they're

6311
06:16:23,460 --> 06:16:24,850
doing

6312
06:16:24,850 --> 06:16:27,520
is the right way to go I think we probably

6313
06:16:27,520 --> 06:16:33,090
will end up with ... some kind of ... compromise

6314
06:16:33,480 --> 06:16:37,590
... I can't foresee exactly what it will be ...

6315
06:16:37,590 --> 06:16:40,690
but I I think that we should stick with the

6316
06:16:40,730 --> 06:16:43,530
with the plan we have now and I think I've

6317
06:16:43,740 --> 06:16:48,520
commented on the sub of the amendment the supplement on

6318
06:16:48,520 --> 06:16:52,650
the main motion side I don't have to say yeah

6319
06:16:52,680 --> 06:16:55,180
thank you for officially your efficiency we do have an

6320
06:16:55,180 --> 06:16:57,360
in camera item where we have an external person here

6321
06:16:57,360 --> 06:16:59,380
that we need to get to kind of soon ishe

6322
06:16:59,410 --> 06:17:01,720
... and we've got a wrap up by five so

6323
06:17:02,120 --> 06:17:04,300
everyone can use their time as wisely as we can

6324
06:17:04,300 --> 06:17:09,020
with that knowledge councillor Andrew and then councillor Loveday

6325
06:17:09,020 --> 06:17:13,150
I think any councillor it's gonna vote against item one

6326
06:17:13,150 --> 06:17:18,420
they just wanna point out I mean we you

6327
06:17:18,420 --> 06:17:21,580
Cuman writes on not something that you would give to

6328
06:17:21,580 --> 06:17:25,770
somebody in time they are ... the you can't say

6329
06:17:25,770 --> 06:17:28,270
well we'll do it next week because that's more convenient

6330
06:17:28,720 --> 06:17:32,590
... and I think by this motion nine two that

6331
06:17:32,590 --> 06:17:35,480
really what we're doing is we're creating a second class

6332
06:17:35,480 --> 06:17:39,770
person and if you read the code ... it says

6333
06:17:39,770 --> 06:17:42,910
section eight a person must not without a bona fide

6334
06:17:42,910 --> 06:17:47,110
and reasonable justification of which we know we don't have

6335
06:17:47,580 --> 06:17:52,750
is to deny personal class of persons any accommodations service

6336
06:17:52,780 --> 06:17:57,430
or facility customarily available to the public or to discriminate

6337
06:17:57,460 --> 06:18:02,100
against person or class of persons regarding any accommodation service

6338
06:18:02,340 --> 06:18:06,200
facility or customer and then ... it's customary they will

6339
06:18:06,200 --> 06:18:10,000
to the public so I'm totally fine I will not

6340
06:18:10,000 --> 06:18:15,270
be supporting this amendment I'm totally fine with ... looking

6341
06:18:15,270 --> 06:18:19,420
at ways to meet the requirements as we've said to

6342
06:18:19,920 --> 06:18:23,780
pedestrian Eisen and ... deal with that situation within the

6343
06:18:23,780 --> 06:18:26,860
park this is not about as I said it's not

6344
06:18:26,860 --> 06:18:30,730
about vehicles it's about people so until we can come

6345
06:18:30,730 --> 06:18:35,070
up with the situation that results that that meets the

6346
06:18:35,240 --> 06:18:38,760
rationalization in deals with that the climate change concerns that

6347
06:18:38,760 --> 06:18:42,440
people have and the accessibility in the park we must

6348
06:18:42,440 --> 06:18:48,500
immediately open those roads to meet our obligations as a

6349
06:18:48,500 --> 06:18:53,660
city to human rights legislation and it's that simple and

6350
06:18:53,660 --> 06:18:57,790
to I find it stunning that there are some people

6351
06:18:57,790 --> 06:19:00,350
at this council table that can't see that and the

6352
06:19:00,540 --> 06:19:05,990
people that represent ... house sitting on a disability ...

6353
06:19:06,040 --> 06:19:11,450
... ... committee so I won't be supporting this and

6354
06:19:11,480 --> 06:19:14,630
... there is no excuse those roads need to be

6355
06:19:14,630 --> 06:19:17,500
opened up today and ... or as soon as we

6356
06:19:17,500 --> 06:19:17,620
can

6357
06:19:17,620 --> 06:19:20,380
and and and that's it we can't say we're going

6358
06:19:20,380 --> 06:19:22,850
to put this down the road and in two thousand

6359
06:19:23,020 --> 06:19:27,130
and twenty two we will give you what you deserve

6360
06:19:27,360 --> 06:19:31,190
... disable community I think that's just appalling

6361
06:19:31,190 --> 06:19:34,170
okay can councillor Loveday and then myself and then councillor

6362
06:19:34,170 --> 06:19:36,240
rises

6363
06:19:36,240 --> 06:19:39,010
actually if you go I I just don't understand sure

6364
06:19:39,040 --> 06:19:42,930
yeah sure so basically ... I was planning to support

6365
06:19:42,930 --> 06:19:47,310
number one ... and but I don't want the original

6366
06:19:47,310 --> 06:19:49,650
wording of number two was at some future date will

6367
06:19:49,650 --> 06:19:52,610
consider maybe closing roads I want to open the roads

6368
06:19:52,880 --> 06:19:55,800
and then to work with the disability community to appropriately

6369
06:19:55,800 --> 06:19:59,160
balance the actual access facilities amenities in Beacon Hill park

6370
06:19:59,160 --> 06:20:02,650
for the closure or partial closure of the above roads

6371
06:20:02,680 --> 06:20:05,830
so open them and then let's have those consultations to

6372
06:20:05,830 --> 06:20:07,410
figure out how do we close them in a way

6373
06:20:07,410 --> 06:20:10,860
that's going to ... reduce reduce the impacts of motor

6374
06:20:10,860 --> 06:20:14,190
vehicle traffic including on people with disabilities so mine is

6375
06:20:14,190 --> 06:20:17,260
a it's a different take on councillor eyes it's because

6376
06:20:17,260 --> 06:20:21,530
his says ... the the the rosary open so basically

6377
06:20:21,530 --> 06:20:23,890
if it is a bit confusing because it's like a

6378
06:20:23,890 --> 06:20:25,950
choose your own adventure if you're gonna vote against one

6379
06:20:25,980 --> 06:20:28,500
what amendment do you support on number two so I

6380
06:20:28,500 --> 06:20:30,980
am going to support my amendment it does assume that

6381
06:20:30,980 --> 06:20:33,590
one is going to pass ... and and that's how

6382
06:20:33,590 --> 06:20:36,220
that shakes down so if you that's yeah that's the

6383
06:20:36,220 --> 06:20:38,720
best I can I can say

6384
06:20:38,720 --> 06:20:40,670
I just don't want that the original wording of the

6385
06:20:40,670 --> 06:20:43,050
motion was too loose at some point in the future

6386
06:20:43,050 --> 06:20:44,960
we might close roads I actually think we do need

6387
06:20:44,960 --> 06:20:46,290
to close the roads that we need to do it

6388
06:20:46,290 --> 06:20:49,340
in a way that's consul consulted with the disability community

6389
06:20:49,660 --> 06:20:52,110
and that takes into consideration all the other language and

6390
06:20:52,110 --> 06:20:55,150
bold so I don't know if that helps or not

6391
06:20:55,150 --> 06:20:58,390
okay I any other speakers on the amendment to the

6392
06:20:58,390 --> 06:21:02,070
amendment yes councillor Isitt

6393
06:21:02,070 --> 06:21:05,850
I don't support the amendment

6394
06:21:05,850 --> 06:21:10,930
I think councillor Andrew described I think a certain type

6395
06:21:10,930 --> 06:21:15,870
of accessibility which is individuals traveling in cars many people

6396
06:21:15,870 --> 06:21:22,190
with mobility impairments and other disabilities I can't drive sometimes

6397
06:21:22,190 --> 06:21:26,050
for socioeconomic reasons they don't own a vehicle and their

6398
06:21:26,050 --> 06:21:30,090
family members don't own vehicles there's a whole other way

6399
06:21:30,090 --> 06:21:33,450
to think about accessibility which is and that's when this

6400
06:21:33,450 --> 06:21:38,030
was debated a month ago on ... arbutus way before

6401
06:21:38,430 --> 06:21:41,790
... the closures there was no accessible rooms to go

6402
06:21:41,790 --> 06:21:44,120
north so through the park and it's hard when we

6403
06:21:44,120 --> 06:21:47,790
don't have a map ... but this motion if number

6404
06:21:47,790 --> 06:21:51,760
one is approved it will have a very negative impact

6405
06:21:51,760 --> 06:21:56,100
on accessibility instantly there will be no accessible room for

6406
06:21:56,100 --> 06:22:00,010
an individual in a wheelchair or mobility scooter or some

6407
06:22:00,010 --> 06:22:04,220
other mobility aids who needs a hard surface like pavement

6408
06:22:04,520 --> 06:22:07,580
they will not be able to enter into the park

6409
06:22:07,930 --> 06:22:12,510
... by any means other than a motorized means having

6410
06:22:12,510 --> 06:22:15,400
to essentially be in a motor vehicle unless they want

6411
06:22:15,400 --> 06:22:17,800
to put themselves at risk by having to share a

6412
06:22:17,800 --> 06:22:21,230
few this road with motor vehicles and many people don't

6413
06:22:21,230 --> 06:22:24,070
feel safe sharing roads in that way you have someone

6414
06:22:24,070 --> 06:22:27,640
in a vulnerable person in a wheelchair up against ...

6415
06:22:27,640 --> 06:22:30,980
someone wrapped in two thousand pounds of steel and plastic

6416
06:22:31,260 --> 06:22:33,490
and all the other hazards that we know are common

6417
06:22:33,730 --> 06:22:36,970
on public roads that's why we that proceed with things

6418
06:22:36,970 --> 06:22:40,460
like separated sidewalks unlike a lot of the district of

6419
06:22:40,460 --> 06:22:44,080
Senate it's why we have protected bike lanes so that

6420
06:22:44,110 --> 06:22:49,210
people traveling in wheelchairs on foot on bicycles are on

6421
06:22:49,210 --> 06:22:53,630
a different are separated from motor vehicles our staff have

6422
06:22:53,630 --> 06:22:57,030
provided that separation on arbutus way it came at the

6423
06:22:57,030 --> 06:22:59,880
expense of motor vehicles being able to drive into the

6424
06:22:59,880 --> 06:23:03,860
park but it meant that there was an accessible pedestrian

6425
06:23:03,860 --> 06:23:05,770
including the wheelchair a

6426
06:23:05,770 --> 06:23:09,110
routes north so through the park so I don't support

6427
06:23:09,110 --> 06:23:12,900
removing that accessibility and that would be the immediate effect

6428
06:23:12,900 --> 06:23:17,070
if number one is supported so I really hope that

6429
06:23:17,070 --> 06:23:21,100
council will not immediately throw open the roads and will

6430
06:23:21,100 --> 06:23:26,720
instead give direction to our staff to mobilize the resources

6431
06:23:26,720 --> 06:23:30,080
they need in the expertise they need to determine how

6432
06:23:30,080 --> 06:23:36,330
we can appropriately balance equitable access to facilities with the

6433
06:23:36,360 --> 06:23:40,120
the goal the very supportable goal of reducing the impacts

6434
06:23:40,120 --> 06:23:44,060
of motor vehicle traffic on all park park users okay

6435
06:23:44,090 --> 06:23:47,510
councillor Thornton Joe

6436
06:23:47,510 --> 06:23:50,260
well the fact that we close them but I think

6437
06:23:50,260 --> 06:23:53,440
mostly due to cold that I think

6438
06:23:53,440 --> 06:23:57,080
we need to re open them ... and then take

6439
06:23:57,080 --> 06:24:00,410
the appropriate time to do the work ... with the

6440
06:24:00,410 --> 06:24:03,490
disability community and and props I I'm you know I

6441
06:24:03,490 --> 06:24:07,370
I think there's some other amendments of number two requires

6442
06:24:07,860 --> 06:24:11,950
... because it could mean that while working with a

6443
06:24:11,950 --> 06:24:15,650
disability ... community

6444
06:24:15,650 --> 06:24:18,430
we should be trying to find a way to fix

6445
06:24:18,430 --> 06:24:23,460
it ... when we don't have the expertise in and

6446
06:24:23,510 --> 06:24:29,750
... abilities or disabilities or or challenges that an individual

6447
06:24:29,750 --> 06:24:33,930
might have and so I think by by referring it

6448
06:24:33,930 --> 06:24:37,860
to groups that do they may say it is challenging

6449
06:24:37,860 --> 06:24:41,350
for those who don't want the traffic so this is

6450
06:24:41,350 --> 06:24:45,520
what we recommend ... here and because is for these

6451
06:24:45,520 --> 06:24:48,890
reasons and so I think this number to needs to

6452
06:24:48,890 --> 06:24:54,950
be worded in a way that ... sentence is balancing

6453
06:24:54,980 --> 06:24:58,050
whatnot embossed appropriately ...

6454
06:24:58,050 --> 06:25:02,790
vice equitable not up ... to me balancing because I

6455
06:25:02,790 --> 06:25:07,610
think that word comes in this contest give me some

6456
06:25:07,610 --> 06:25:10,600
concerns I think could be the closure

6457
06:25:10,600 --> 06:25:14,080
the non closures or partial Clarissa I think we need

6458
06:25:14,080 --> 06:25:16,740
to it's like what we said about staff staff to

6459
06:25:17,010 --> 06:25:19,020
tell us what you want and let us go and

6460
06:25:19,020 --> 06:25:21,710
do it and what we want is

6461
06:25:21,710 --> 06:25:24,850
... equitable access so I think we should be just

6462
06:25:24,850 --> 06:25:28,200
saying that let it go to the staff and the

6463
06:25:28,230 --> 06:25:31,650
and the ... disability community and let them come back

6464
06:25:31,830 --> 06:25:34,610
and so the buzz word smithing trying to create a

6465
06:25:34,610 --> 06:25:37,570
what we think is the right solution thank you I

6466
06:25:37,570 --> 06:25:40,240
think the challenges that some people think that partial or

6467
06:25:40,240 --> 06:25:42,530
full road closures are good and some people don't think

6468
06:25:42,530 --> 06:25:45,110
they are so we're divided on that ... what I'd

6469
06:25:45,110 --> 06:25:47,070
what I request is if we could just at least

6470
06:25:47,380 --> 06:25:49,940
vote to clean up number two so we're not stacked

6471
06:25:49,940 --> 06:25:52,830
up with amendments to amendments so if you're in support

6472
06:25:52,830 --> 06:25:55,790
of everything with the three stars basically the language that

6473
06:25:55,790 --> 06:25:58,340
I proposed ... please raise your hand now so all

6474
06:25:58,340 --> 06:26:00,850
those in favor of that amendment

6475
06:26:00,850 --> 06:26:04,860
okay those opposed so opposed are councillor young councillor Thornton

6476
06:26:04,860 --> 06:26:08,900
Joe councillor eyes it to councillor Andrew so that carries

6477
06:26:09,060 --> 06:26:11,790
with five in favor as I I should just call

6478
06:26:11,790 --> 06:26:13,830
the oppose councillor Dubow didn't raise his hand so he's

6479
06:26:13,830 --> 06:26:16,790
in favor of the amendment to the amendment carries some

6480
06:26:16,790 --> 06:26:18,930
as of all can you just clean it up for

6481
06:26:18,930 --> 06:26:20,820
us

6482
06:26:20,820 --> 06:26:23,800
and now we have to vote on that amendment

6483
06:26:23,800 --> 06:26:27,450
once it's cleaned up

6484
06:26:27,450 --> 06:26:30,370
and again just remind us council that we do have

6485
06:26:30,370 --> 06:26:32,980
an external person that's here to give us some in

6486
06:26:32,980 --> 06:26:35,370
camera time so we wanna make sure we honor that

6487
06:26:35,370 --> 06:26:37,540
and that person is only available to five as are

6488
06:26:37,540 --> 06:26:40,730
we because of getting ready for tonight's meeting

6489
06:26:40,730 --> 06:26:43,690
okay so miserable because I good that cleaned up so

6490
06:26:43,690 --> 06:26:46,540
the now the amendment is to add the bold and

6491
06:26:46,540 --> 06:26:52,610
strikes the strike through okay any further discussion on not

6492
06:26:52,610 --> 06:26:56,870
yeah councillor alto sorry but I find any earlier rational

6493
06:26:56,870 --> 06:27:00,590
you had referenced not wanting the reference to future that's

6494
06:27:00,590 --> 06:27:03,290
true and it should be my in the any current

6495
06:27:03,290 --> 06:27:08,620
or future road closures goals that went that went so

6496
06:27:08,620 --> 06:27:11,940
that's right that that language of instructors thank skills that's

6497
06:27:11,940 --> 06:27:14,450
right so the closure partial closure of the above roads

6498
06:27:14,450 --> 06:27:16,430
with a reduction that's right thank you so that's the

6499
06:27:16,430 --> 06:27:21,210
amendment that's now on the table

6500
06:27:21,210 --> 06:27:28,400
run take a minute to read it

6501
06:27:28,400 --> 06:27:30,130
yeah councillor alto

6502
06:27:30,130 --> 06:27:35,420
just a question clarification too I understand too now

6503
06:27:35,420 --> 06:27:37,360
but I'm just wondering

6504
06:27:37,360 --> 06:27:40,060
if you could comment mayor helps this is was your

6505
06:27:40,680 --> 06:27:43,930
amendment how do you see the relationship between number one

6506
06:27:43,930 --> 06:27:47,960
and number two are not mutually exclusive

6507
06:27:47,960 --> 06:27:51,940
there is there not if number one because their original

6508
06:27:51,970 --> 06:27:54,220
the original number two was at some future point we

6509
06:27:54,220 --> 06:27:56,360
consider closing the roads all I'm trying to do is

6510
06:27:56,360 --> 06:27:58,920
say not at some future point kind of now so

6511
06:27:58,920 --> 06:28:01,840
if we open the road stand staff need to go

6512
06:28:01,840 --> 06:28:03,780
and do the work to figure out okay how do

6513
06:28:03,780 --> 06:28:06,720
we make it more equitable ... for closure or partial

6514
06:28:06,720 --> 06:28:09,520
closure not in the future at some point but now

6515
06:28:09,840 --> 06:28:12,330
like the problem is that we've closed the roads because

6516
06:28:12,330 --> 06:28:15,040
of Colwood we haven't closed the roads ... in a

6517
06:28:15,040 --> 06:28:17,900
in a way that ... balances everyone's needs we did

6518
06:28:17,900 --> 06:28:19,140
it as a knee jerk and we need to be

6519
06:28:19,140 --> 06:28:21,330
more thought front lots I think what what is the

6520
06:28:21,330 --> 06:28:24,430
point of the original motions so person could vote in

6521
06:28:24,430 --> 06:28:27,920
favor of number one and in favor of number two

6522
06:28:27,960 --> 06:28:30,960
yes that that that's correct so number one if it's

6523
06:28:30,960 --> 06:28:34,680
adopted means rose would open but if number two is

6524
06:28:34,680 --> 06:28:39,070
adopted they would open subject to this work

6525
06:28:39,070 --> 06:28:42,470
correct thank you you're welcome okay yeah councillor Dubow and

6526
06:28:42,470 --> 06:28:46,080
then councillor Thornton Joe yes thanks for helps I have

6527
06:28:46,080 --> 06:28:50,790
a question for clarification when it sees to walk with

6528
06:28:50,790 --> 06:28:53,680
the disability community

6529
06:28:53,680 --> 06:28:57,160
could you tell me more what would that mean disability

6530
06:28:57,160 --> 06:29:01,720
organization would mean accessibility committee at city hall councillor Andrew

6531
06:29:01,720 --> 06:29:04,310
can you please answer that was your wording yes ...

6532
06:29:04,310 --> 06:29:07,320
I would assume we would talk to the accessibility working

6533
06:29:07,320 --> 06:29:10,380
group we would also talk with members of the same

6534
06:29:10,380 --> 06:29:14,850
committing such as a disability resource center and someone just

6535
06:29:14,850 --> 06:29:18,130
to insure we would campus them and ensure that we

6536
06:29:18,130 --> 06:29:21,530
were doing in the right way

6537
06:29:21,530 --> 06:29:25,620
I'm would it be helpful to to make the language

6538
06:29:25,620 --> 06:29:32,870
more specific no absolutely not ... so then would

6539
06:29:32,870 --> 06:29:37,220
a question to the staff at what direction does this

6540
06:29:37,220 --> 06:29:39,870
motion give it to you in terms all

6541
06:29:39,870 --> 06:29:42,790
and who you walk with because for me when I

6542
06:29:42,790 --> 06:29:47,760
agreed disabilities communities to browse doesn't give me more specific

6543
06:29:47,760 --> 06:29:51,660
use of the eve willing gate with organizations Mr Belle

6544
06:29:51,660 --> 06:29:55,050
Fontaine I see the tension is that but the the

6545
06:29:55,050 --> 06:29:58,660
language that's captured before I go to Mr Bellefontaine I'll

6546
06:29:58,660 --> 06:30:01,520
just remind council that we do have an accessibility framework

6547
06:30:01,520 --> 06:30:04,770
that was developed through extensive engagement over two year period

6548
06:30:04,770 --> 06:30:08,420
with the disability community so ... but Mr Bellefontaine how

6549
06:30:08,420 --> 06:30:11,700
do you interpret that general seeming language yes thank you

6550
06:30:11,900 --> 06:30:16,230
I think as councillor Andrew indicated ... ... given some

6551
06:30:16,230 --> 06:30:18,520
of the discussions we've had today in the spirit of

6552
06:30:18,520 --> 06:30:22,820
this motion we would ... we would bring a broad

6553
06:30:22,820 --> 06:30:25,950
spectrum of expertise to the table so it would be

6554
06:30:25,950 --> 06:30:29,240
the accessibility committee we would look at the heat a

6555
06:30:29,240 --> 06:30:34,670
number of accessibility groups who we have had ... great

6556
06:30:34,670 --> 06:30:38,150
relationships with it in the past on specific projects such

6557
06:30:38,150 --> 06:30:42,610
as the framework acceptable parking and so on and and

6558
06:30:42,610 --> 06:30:46,700
also I suspect ... individuals with lived experience so so

6559
06:30:46,700 --> 06:30:50,040
we would make sure it was a representative ... ...

6560
06:30:50,070 --> 06:30:53,420
group ... contributing to this discussion

6561
06:30:53,420 --> 06:30:58,290
there are hidden that answer and it satisfies me on

6562
06:30:58,290 --> 06:31:02,150
I'm happy to hear the staff has already leased of

6563
06:31:02,230 --> 06:31:06,510
who they engage so with this information is also good

6564
06:31:06,510 --> 06:31:09,760
for the public you might be wondering and the same

6565
06:31:09,760 --> 06:31:13,230
way so now that that I hear that answer on

6566
06:31:13,230 --> 06:31:17,190
this on the record and I'm very satisfied okay thank

6567
06:31:17,190 --> 06:31:20,720
you very much councillor Thornton Joe councillor Andrew counselor young

6568
06:31:20,720 --> 06:31:24,380
on the amendment I'd like to make another amended Tim

6569
06:31:25,260 --> 06:31:27,610
can we just can we just do can we clean

6570
06:31:27,610 --> 06:31:29,660
it up first and then so we're not stacked up

6571
06:31:29,940 --> 06:31:33,740
helps I was a voice is against referring it to

6572
06:31:33,740 --> 06:31:36,100
next week I'd be very happy if you want to

6573
06:31:36,100 --> 06:31:40,140
table a central ... tonight tonight is a council meeting

6574
06:31:40,170 --> 06:31:42,040
...

6575
06:31:42,040 --> 06:31:44,670
just out yes I management service that's a good idea

6576
06:31:44,700 --> 06:31:47,010
why don't we just refer this matter to tonight's council

6577
06:31:47,010 --> 06:31:50,770
meeting second okay seconded by councillor Thornton Joe ... all

6578
06:31:50,770 --> 06:31:54,950
those in favor any opposed okay and Mr Kingsley that's

6579
06:31:54,950 --> 06:31:58,170
fine to do that okay perfect okay so this goes

6580
06:31:58,170 --> 06:32:01,700
to tonight's council meeting will continue of the discussion then

6581
06:32:02,080 --> 06:32:04,180
... so that means that we need a motion to

6582
06:32:04,180 --> 06:32:06,950
adjourn committee of the whole thank you councillor alto seconded

6583
06:32:06,950 --> 06:32:09,460
by councillor Andrew accounts or enter thank you for that

6584
06:32:09,460 --> 06:32:23,780
suggestion all those in favor of adjourning any opposed okay