Here.
I had burgers tonight.
» All right. I'm calling the Village of Cross Plains Board of Trustees meeting
for August 24th, 2026. The order roll call, please.
» Trustee Henry. >> Here.
» Trustee Brokish. >> Here.
» Trustee Here. Trustee Brookman.
» Here. >> Trustee Polmakowski.
» Here. >> Trustee Kettlebaker.
» Here. >> President Huff.
» Here. Please stand for Pledge of Allegiance.
I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America
and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.
All right, we are at public comment. This is an opportunity for anyone to
address the Village Board on any issue. Please observe the time limit of 3
minutes. While the Village Board encourages input from residents, it may
not discuss or act on any issue that is not duly noticed on the agenda.
Do we have anybody that would like to speak?
» We have Seth Johnson. >> Seth, come on up.
» State your name and address if you could, please.
» Sure. Seth Johnson, 512 North Century Road,
Cross Comments are specifically on the items
four six Um
I don't know if I need to do everything, but um
for the Park Street improvements, I saw on the the packet probably for the
breakdown of the costs uh estimated costs and I had a little bit of a mirror
there that our Park Street curb and gutter
would be replaced. I just hoping that
» [clears throat] >> the village is even this is an
opportunity to connect connect for pedestrians and bikes and that we put
half in our sidewalk in the entire length of the street for
safety and then when we reconstruct the brewery.
The right of way from post office west appears to be wide enough to do that to
the to put it a path on one side of the street to the entire
length. The block with post office and the EMS is it looks like it's a little
narrower. You can certainly sidewalk in there but there's already sidewalk on
obviously both sides of the street. So I hope the village doesn't miss an
opportunity to create nice connection get the kids
going to and from our school off the street so that's not as safe.
Right now with the the street on the shoulder facing by the the government.
So if the costs don't reflect that
In general for when you're talking about capital improvement projects
I know there's an item in there for street resurfacing every year.
I'd like to see the village consider having that pot whether it's in there or
a separate pot for spot safety improvements that may come up because I
think there's a number of opportunities here in the village
where we can make targeted improvements that aren't necessarily big budget
items. And then they come up
on short notice. I just want to see the
like the village consider either increasing the the street resurfacing
budget every year or have a separate pot for safety improvements.
Thank you for your time. >> All right, thank you.
Is there anybody on the internet? >> I do not see anyone.
» All right. We'll go to consent agenda. On request
of any trustee any item may be removed from the consent agenda for separate
consideration under general business. Any trustees that would like an item
separated? All right, do I have a motion?
» I'll make a motion to approve the consent agenda.
» Do I have a second? >> I'll second it.
» I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
All in favor say I. >> I.
» All same. So moved.
All right, we're having board of village officers.
Uh village president just uh two items. One, you notice that you are not
receiving the base budget at the end of tonight's meeting, which is generally
our our process. Um because of not getting We don't
believe we're going to get the tip for money's for next year.
We have to go to plan B, which was a zero base, and all increases have to be
placed on a supplement budget request form.
So to give staff more time because they submitted budgets with a 2% increase. So
just to rework that, so you'll be receiving at the first meeting in
September, and then we'll have the discussion at the second meeting in
September. So that's number one. Number two, I've extended, reluctantly, the
deadline for committees to get their changes to the comprehensive plan.
Uh the deadline was September 1st. Well, I've moved it to October 1st, but we
need to get that stuff in
so we can put our draft uh comprehensive plan
uh together. Plan and sustainability have done theirs.
And again, you don't have to do all nine chapters. There's certain chapters that
are applicable to your committee, so those are the ones you should be looking
at. And, you know, Sarah for like parks and rec, you can certainly refer to the
5-year plan instead of rewriting everything that's in there. But, there
needs to be the sections that uh we do that in cuz that is due
uh we have to have it by 2018 uh 2018. >> 2020
» Oh, 2028. >> The last one was 2018.
» So, please get your committee to uh put that on the agenda and let's try to get
that in October. >> And I'll send an email that includes a
link to the document. We have a working Word document with all of the changes so
far, so you can just add those changes to the document. So, look out for an
email from me tomorrow. >> All right, that's all I have.
Village Vice President >> Um just an announcement. Um
Hillen Bailey will be out of the park in a couple weeks. I think November 19th or
something like that. That will be over there. We have two anniversaries. We
have Jill Hedge. She's here at 3 years on August 9th.
And Matthew Hester, who's given us his resignation, but he would be here at 3
years on August 7th. >> Perfect.
Thank you. Other trustee reports?
All right, Village Administrator >> Yeah, I just have the one um just keep
updating on those Bear Street poles, those um um poles that MG&E owns. Um so,
all of them have been All of those extra poles have been removed except for two.
Um and MG&E is pushing for removal of those two extra poles. So, that was just
something that had come up at a past meeting, but that's all I have.
» Okay, thank you. Village Department Heads Okay, I got
Bobby, then the Chief. >> Um just another reminder, Board of
Review is September 16th at 5:00. Um because of reassessments this year, we
are I'm um people to show up for a hearings.
Since I've been the clerk, we haven't had any, so
that should be interesting. I did pull out some older videos that we have, but
people want to refresh themselves on what they can be expecting for that. I'm
also going to put together kind of a
101 for you guys to just kind of update your
see what kind of things we should be expecting or looking for, things we can
or can't do. Just a little brief.
» Okay. >> Instead of a question, I don't know if
this is the time to ask it. So, if they came to repeal or appeal
before, could they lower get a lower before?
» Yeah, but so and they still have an opportunity to do
that for the next couple weeks to change their assessment. It's if you've already
worked with the assessor and you still don't agree with them, then this is the
the first step in appealing. This is, you know, kind of like a quasi-judicial
thing where you guys are essentially like a jury.
» That makes sense. >> Yeah.
» Is there you have someone who's been trained?
» I I did the certified train for this year.
» Okay. >> Um and I think probably he's going to
watch a video. I did have another one here, also.
» Yeah, I told you. I'm going to watch I I I was trained what, 3 4 years ago,
so >> I've been trained a couple times and I
just sit in there >> Yeah, I just want to refresh. That's
what I'm doing. I'm just going to watch the video.
» When you get done with that, can you just give me a call and then I can pick
it up and watch it? >> Yeah, I think these ones here are like
the 2020, so they're a little bit longer, but it's just a
» The basics are the same. >> Yeah, the basics are the same, yeah. And
who's running that meeting? Who's chair? >> Whoever we vote.
» Yeah, that gets taken care of that night.
» Well, I know, but okay, who are we thinking?
We should give them a heads-up. If you >> So, like
» Generally, I think in the past it's been the person who's had the
» The training. >> The training.
» Right. >> Well, I I don't want if it's all of a
sudden dumped on me, I want to prep for it, all right? I don't want to be at
5:00, especially when we got lots of people, because this year I agree there
will be people. So, we should be well informed on how this works. And I
» I can do it. I've done it. So, if you don't want to do it,
» If no one wants to do it, that's fine. If you want to take it, we I mean, we're
not going to nominate now. So, if you're willing, then yeah, then I'm not going
to fight you for it. Oh,
we're not going to have a vote on that. >> The only thing I wanted to mention is
normally because we don't have anybody show up, we like bring food in and like
take a pause and eat during the 2-hour thing. I don't know if we'll have time
for that this year, so we see beforehand. I'll
» Yeah, I agree. >> I'll bring in some snacks in case we do
» And the difference is we're not voting this up against the board meeting.
» Yeah. Yeah. >> This is just for the that night, for
that. So, that's understandable. >> And then
um oh, so if it goes over 2 hours, you got plenty of time.
» Yeah. >> Okay.
» I have two questions. >> Go ahead.
» Um are all trustees supposed to be at this?
» Yeah. >> Yeah.
» Yes. >> Okay, I wasn't unaware of that.
Um second question, what do we do if a trustee uh is contesting
one? >> That's a good question. I'm going to
bring that up at the staff meeting uh with the attorney, cuz um for sure
you're not going to be able to vote on your own case, but I could also see that
there's a conflict all the way through. So, I will ask that question to our
attorney at the staff meeting, which is the first Wednesday. So, we'll we'll
send something out on what the attorney has to say.
» Okay.
» All right. Anything else, Bobby? >> Uh nope, that's all for
» Chief? >> Uh just real quick, we had a great Uh,
National Night Out, it was all attended. Um, nothing but positive comments. Um,
and then two things we uh, we gave an award to Taylor Figerson at our last
public safety meeting for his enforcement on traffic. It's definitely
our number one problem and he does a great job working on that proactively.
Uh, and then secondly, uh, we awarded uh, Zach Esser a life-saving award. He
and I responded on June 8th to a pulse-less non-breather and we brought
him back and so I I awarded him a life-saving award.
That's just one of the little points. Thank you.
» It And that was a very nice event, National
Night Out. By far the best.
» I agree. I agree. >> Yeah, it was really cool.
All right. Anybody else? Okay. Elizabeth and then Hank. Hank.
» Oh, I was just going to say too that Matt Esser returns two weeks. Um, we
swore him in last going to Meridian home, so.
» Yeah. >> So, thank you.
» All right, thank you. Elizabeth?
» Yeah, I just wanted to give a quick recap of summer reading. Since we
wrapped that up, we haven't had any this year
since I've been here. Uh, made a 40% increase for the adult
program, which is huge. Um, circulation is up almost a thousand since the last
July. Um, programs have been up a lot.
Yeah, a lot of new programs. Our program library is up super fun. We have some
» Very good, thank you.
And that should get just about everybody, right? Matt, you got
anything? Okay.
» I'm the one that did. >> Yeah.
All right. General business. First one, consideration of
recognizing 2026 as Hunger Action Month in the Village of Cross Plains.
Sarah? >> Okay. Um,
would Do like me to go ahead and read it to
» Well, why don't you introduce who's here and and a little bit of background on
it, I guess. >> Okay. So, we have Leslie and Beth here
from WayForward and they'll speak in just a moment. But, um
So, Hunger Action Month is something that they have had and I saw the city of
Middleton had declared this and I thought since WayForward is serving the
village of Cross Plains, I'd like to see us get more involved
with WayForward. So, that's why we've decided to do the proclamation.
Um and then in the village, we are having our um the Can-tastic Sculpture
Contest. In fact, the library and the EMS actually both have entries. And if
you stop by Culvers, you'll see their setup. And um also, we have Century 21
Primrose, Glacier Creek staff, and a neighborhood group. So, um
so, you'll soon see the voting come up for that. So, it's just a way to get us
um more connected with WayForward and so that our residents can know that this is
a good service that they can access. >> Very good.
» All right. So, I will go ahead and read it. So, uh
So, this is the proclamation to uh declare Hunger Action Month for the
month of September 2026 in the village of Cross Plains, Wisconsin.
Whereas, 32% of Dane County households struggle to afford the basic necessities
of housing, child care, health care, food, and transportation. And whereas,
10.7% of Dane County residents and 17% of children in Dane County are food
insecure, meaning they lack reliable and consistent access to nutritious food.
And whereas, food insecurity can affect individuals and families facing
challenges such as rising living costs, housing expenses, unemployment, and
low-wage employment. And whereas, a lack of access to nutritious food can
contribute to increased risk of nutrition-related health conditions. And
whereas WayForward Resources in Middleton operates a year-round food
pantry that provides nutritious food at no cost to area residents, including
residents of Cross Plains, supplementing food that individuals and families are
able to purchase or grow on their own. And whereas the food pantry provides an
important resource for people experiencing food insecurity, including
families, senior citizens, people with disabilities, and individuals of all
ages. And whereas WayForward distributes the equivalent of nearly 133,000
meals per month, approximately 3.5 times the amount of food we distributed 5
years ago. And now, therefore, be it resolved that the Village Board of the
Village of Cross Plains hereby proclaims September 2026 as Hunger Action Month in
the Village of Cross Plains. And be it further resolved that the Village Board
encourages residents to learn more about food insecurity in our community and to
support organizations that provide assistance to Cross Plains residents in
experiencing hunger through donations, volunteerism, and other forms of
community involvement. >> Thank you.
Would you like to invite someone to speak?
» We would like to invite her up.
Thank you for having us here tonight. We are excited to be here, and we
appreciate you putting forth this proclamation and declaring Hunger Action
Month this September. I'm Leslie Hubert, I'm the Vice President of Strategic
Engagement at WayForward Resources. And this is Beth Johnson, our Community
Engagement Manager. And you just already heard some of the
basics of WayForward. We've been in our community for over 45 years, and during
that time we have been focused on bringing the community together to
create housing stability and food security. And um
we Our food pantry serves all of Dane
County. We're one of the largest food pantries in the county, and our housing
services serve Cross Plains, Middleton, and West the western part of Madison.
And those focus on helping keep people in their homes to avoid the trauma of
homelessness. Our food pantry is open 5 days a week.
And as was said here, we have seen a huge increase in demand over the past 5
years. So, we are giving out 3.5 times more quantity food than we were just 5
years ago. And we often say to people, imagine if there were 3.5 times as many
kindergartners at the school as there were 5 years ago,
uh what a struggle that would be to keep up. And it has been a struggle for us to
keep up with that increased demand. Um and that's why Hunger Action Month is
so important, because hunger isn't something we can always see right around
us, but it is something that is in every community, including the community in
Dane County, and including here in Cross Plains. It is a community problem, and
it requires a community solution. And that's really what Hunger Action Month
is about. It's about people coming together and working to address the
situation. And we're particularly excited to have
Cross Plains be part of this this year. Um we're excited about the proclamation,
and we also appreciate Sarah for the work that she's done.
We're all excited about Canstruction, and to share some of those photos out
for our social media and our newsletters. And we appreciate the
library for hosting this event. And we think it really demonstrates what the
community can do when they come together. And that very visible display
will help to remind people and help them to think about something that again is
easy for it to be invisible. There are a couple of other ways to be
involved in Hunger Action Month. I've handed you all a postcard. We will have
businesses throughout the community and also school groups and part of Back to
School Night this year. Uh we have neighborhood groups, school
sports teams who will be organizing all kinds of fun. Food drives, we have one
business that has a goal and if they reach the goal, they may have a dunk
tank where they dunk the president in it. So, all kinds of creative ideas that
we'll be sharing and well as well as we'll have lots of statistics out to
social media and our newsletter that we're encouraging people to share. And I
did want to re-extend our invitation for our kickoff which is on September 2nd.
We would like to invite all of the village trustees to join us on that day.
And that's a week from Wednesday from 12:00 to 2:00 at WayForward. We're
receiving a donation of 35,000 lb of food.
Um and we're kind of using that as our um
backdrop to kick off our month and we have We're going to have the media
there. We have representatives um Mayor Lisa Heinel will be there as well
as all the various from Middleton, from Madison, superintendents from Middleton
and Madison will be there. We'll have some local businesses and we'll have
representatives from the county, state, and federal government who will be there
that day. We would love to have Cross Plains representative there, too. We'll
be taking photos. It's about a 10-minute commitment. You drop in, we have our um
flora that will take your picture of the community coming together. This is to
show our community that this is the issue that we're all invested in. So,
if you are interested, you can respond to my email or reach out to Beth or me
and let us know that you'll be coming and what time period. Again, you can
just drop in for a few minutes. And the final thing I'd like to invite
you to is our panel discussion that will take place on September 30th. This is
free and open to the public. And we'd love anyone sharing it with
other people in Cross Plains, too, so let them know that they are invited. And
it will be creating food security challenges, insights, and solutions. You
can sign up through the Milton Public Library. We have four
experts that we're really excited about that will each bring a different lens to
share information about why is there this increase in demand at food
pantries, what's happening with food insecurity. We know it's been in the
news a lot with the SNAP cuts. They're going to help kind of pull this apart
and um explain to people what's happening and why. So, you can
sign up through the library or shoot back an email or you can you can take a
picture of the sign up, too. So, again, thank you for your commitment
to your community and to food security. And we know that we have seen when our
community comes together, that's how real progress is made. If we put
together, we can help create more food security for our neighbors.
Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you very much.
Appreciate it. And good luck with your event.
» Yeah, thank you. >> thank you.
All right, do I have a motion?
» I'll make the motion to cons uh through the proclamation recognizing
September 24th, 2026 as Hunger Action Month in the Village of
Cross Plains. >> Well,
» I'll second it. >> Okay, I have a motion and a second. Any
discussion? Bill?
» Okay. So, I fully support the purpose of what
we're doing here and and I really support what you guys are doing. I think
it's fantastic. I think it's great. My [clears throat] concern
uh is this resolution becomes a legislative
piece of document within the Village of Cross Plains.
And in the resolution it says, "Be it further resolved the Village Board
encourages residents to learn more about food insecurity in our community." Which
I did because I wanted to learn more about this before we came to the
meeting. What I found were discrepancies in the
data. Um
I couldn't find I couldn't find the 32% I couldn't I found the 10.7%
but I found it between Alice I found it between uh
Feeding America. Uh and so I guess my only point I'm
going to make from here is that if this is because this is a legislative record
and you're wanting people to look into it, I think having at least the data
sourced and I and the data that I found looked
like it was from 2023, 2022, 2023. So I don't know if that data is current
or not. Again fully support and I'm going to approve
I'm going to vote yes to this, but I just I really would like to see that
data sourced within the legislative document within
the Village of Cross Plains. Would that make sense?
» And I'd be happy to provide those sources. We have our whole document that
leads to that where they came from. The Alice resource only comes out every few
years. So the most recent one may have been 2023. The Feeding America comes out
We haven't gotten 2025 yet. So the 10.7 and 17% are from Feeding America. And
Mine's from Mine the Meal Gap and that most recent
source is 2024. So I'd be happy to provide those links and be happy
» Cool. Yeah, so and all I'm asking for is that again
I I I I love what you guys are doing and I
fully support what we're trying to do here. I just would like to see the
legislative record at least be accurate and be sourced.
And I I think we can pass this tonight, but
uh but if somehow we can get sourced in
there for the record at the next meeting, I think I'd be okay.
That's my comment. >> Okay.
» Judy, did you have your hand up? >> No. Well, I was just going to explain
the cans, but I think I was just going to say are these places like the library
and then where they all ask you for donations for cans of now that we know
who's all the owners. Are they >> They So, that's how people will vote for
their favorite one is they can they can donate a can or they can Yeah,
I mean gosh.
» Did you want to say something, Jed? >> No.
» Okay. >> All right, any other discussion?
All in favor say aye. >> Aye.
» All opposed same. So moved. Thank you.
All right, number two, discussion and possible action regarding acceptance of
the resubmitted Marchstone deed restriction.
Jed, do you want to come up? Answer any questions that
» I can I can just do the overview here. Um so, this was So, back in January, on
January 26th, is when the board approved the Marchstone development declaration
of covenants, restrictions, and easements. Um so, since then, um the
developer has submitted some proposed revisions to the approved declaration
based on some builder feedback um and is looking to provide some additional
flexibility in the design. Um and so, the redline is in the packet along with
the proposed um final product.
» All right. Does anybody have any questions for Jed?
Go ahead, Michael. >> So, it's just why did you
why did you decide to have some of the stuff about houses with
same colors and all of a sudden curiosity.
» A lot of builder Oh, sorry. A lot of builder
input after that we furnished them the original set.
Uh, there's a lot of redundancy also in the original document, so we
uh, try to get rid of as much of that as possible.
Uh, but it was more or less a lot of the stuff we had put in there.
Um, I'll just honestly what we do a lot of
times is we look at other deed restrictions from other subdivisions,
common base, and uh, it's not always the smoothest, and
we're not builders, and once we get it over to them, they
say, "Well, you know, this is fine, but this is wrong, and you really can't do
this, and like post is Yeah, that's a big thing about colors,
and they're all worried about that and too late, and they're all or not
allowing two white houses or or something, so we just try to clean it up
best we could with the people that are dealing with it every day.
» Yeah, that's sort of what I thought. I mean, you guys are still going to have
that committee cuz you can still You got chance to bend a little things you don't
like. >> Absolutely. If you're not going to let
those fly, like, "Okay, this isn't going to fly." or something like that.
» Exactly. So, you know, you still have control but you're losing some control
of it. >> So, yeah, it still has to be approved by
the architectural control committee and
» That's >> And you
are allowing dog houses now, huh? >> I thought I mean, I read that.
» I don't think we are. >> No, I thought that was
» I think it's the dog house thing was struck out
there. >> 5.12 Dog houses are all lined out, so it
looks like you are. >> Meaning we're not allowing it.
» No, the the thing that's lined out is the line that says you're not allowing
them. >> Which means
» Something. >> That you are allowing them.
» Okay. >> I guess the committee will review
those. >> Yeah, I mean, it's in the new the whole
other thing about the dog houses is like struck in the now, so
» I'll be asking them unfortunately caught him there. This was his uh off.
» [laughter] >> The next item was more of me. This was
Kyle's, so I apologize. >> No, no, that's all right.
All right, do I have a motion, please?
» I'll make a motion to approve the substance of the resubmitted Markstone
deed restrictions. >> I'll second that.
» I have a motion and a second. Any more discussion?
All in favor, say I. >> I.
» I. >> I.
» All opposed, same. >> So moved.
» Thank you. >> All right, discussion and possible
action regarding Markstone phase one Thinnes Street water main and utility
requirements. >> I can kind of kick this one off, and
then we'll have Matt, Brian, and Jeff, whoever wants to
help chime in. So, this was um we just wanted to bring this to the board, so um
obviously have um the board has approved the new Thinnes water main um because
they'll be working in the area anyways. It's an old main. It's an opportunity
for um for the village to get this done um at a reduced cost. Um
so we were approached by Jeff's team with a request to tap the current
Thinnes main um that's in there now this fall. So, they
had requested to tap it this fall, and then install the new main in the spring.
Um and so, upon some conversations with staff, we're concerned about the
viability of the old main getting tapped 12 times um for all of the um zero lot
line homes that are along Thinnes. Um and also concerned about the winter um
because there are water main breaks that happen along Thinnes, um and you're
making it weaker by poking holes in it. So then also comes you know the addition
of two full road closures. So you would have one in the fall
for probably about a month and then you'd have one again in the spring for
about a month. So with that we kind of said you know
we're not in favor of this this you know there's a lot of different things going
on here but Jeff's team kind of came back and
said you know this negatively impacts the development
you know we want you to reconsider. So that's what we're here tonight to kind
of discuss the pros and cons of that if there are
other options I know a couple of options were thrown around too this all happened
later last week so that's why I don't have anything in
the packet about it but we wanted to bring it to this to the board just
because you know staff kind of said no thanks and they're kind of pushing back
on us. So I don't know if Brian or Jeff do you want to come up first Jeff?
Go right ahead.
» Brian can either confirm or not confirm there's my understanding
the original plans and specs that were approved by the
village always included tapping into the old
main. And it was after the fact
that then you can confirm or deny after the fact that the village cuz it
was after the fact you guys approved the new water main
and then last week through discussions is my understanding
it was thought that it it it would make sense
to wait and tap or put in the new water main which our contractor does not have
time to do. And that's the reason it's not going in
this fall. So, I think the way our take on this is
this is something the village is doing after the fact
and all 12 of those lots are sold and we need to close on.
We can't wait for next spring. So, that's my take on it.
» All right, can I just hold hold just hang on?
I I I want to say something before Brian can get in.
Because that's a little different understanding
of my Let me ask you something. You're saying that the bank cannot close on
those lots unless you're hooked up to water. Is that what you're saying? No,
the lateral No, I'm asking is that is that the
» Well, I'm If that's the case, will the village
will they give us building permits? Because if the lots aren't built for the
approved plans and specs, the village probably's not signing off
and therefore we can't get building permits. If we can't get building
» No, I'm just trying to figure out the the issue here. Cuz that we can control,
right? Now, I know phase you know, here's my understanding of
this. We had phase one and then you came to the village and said we want to split
phase one into phase 1A and phase 1B. The south side we're going to go and get
things rolling so we're ready for fall. Uh northern part we're going to wait on
that. So, the the whole push was to do the southern area. Okay. Well, that's
I'm just telling you how I remember this. And it's if correct me if I'm
wrong, there is no gas or electric going to any of those lots on the southern
side of it right now, right? And you're still going to close those lots out,
right? And you're you're going to want the village to give
permits even though there's no electricity or gas going to them. Is
that correct? First of all, we never said we're waiting on phase two.
It's always been our goal that was going to It's still going
to be achievable. Phase two of phase one is going to be done. They're putting
curb in Monday. Okay. So, and they wanted to get latrines on
tennis this week. And really, the way phase two is going,
it'll be bumped up >> in October. But that's wasn't the plan
back in February. >> No, we never said we were going to close
phase two in the spring. No. I mean, why would Why would you go spend all that
money and then have it sit >> Well, I think things are moving a lot
faster than you expected. And you asked us to split it because
at the time for you to open up and for us to give permits, you would have had
to have everything done in phase one. You wanted it separated so you could get
everything done on the southern so you could start building on it. Now, it just
so happens everything's appears to be moving at a faster pace now. So, now
you're kind of Again, to me, you're changing this here. And I think we have
a If If your only concern is
uh that you I'm not really sure besides the builders not being able to hook in
until spring. But are you saying that you think the
lots are going to be sold and the buildings are going to be up and ready
to be uh sold by the spring and that's
Well, again, uh we can give you schedules.
What that included all lots being done this year. Okay? So, there's no way we
ever said Talk to our bank. I mean, Well, I think I think Brian will just
Let me finish, please. Brian will probably
After that, I'll let him speak. But bottom line is then gas and electric is
not a requirement for the village for building permits.
» I agree. I'm looking at the banks, though.
» Well, you brought that up for a for >> Well, yeah, I'm looking at that's not
our totally complete I'm one that was my first question was are the banks is the
problem the banks not going to let you close because there isn't a lateral
to water when they're going to close on lots when you don't have gas and
electric. That was my question. I wanted to know what the pressure was.
» So, you know, ultimately it's >> You know, you said this is going to hurt
you financially. >> That's right. Well, if if they don't
give us the bucks, we can't close on it. >> Well, I'm trying to ask. So, you're
saying a bank's not going to allow you to close because the lateral isn't
hooked to water. >> No, I didn't say that, Jim.
» Okay, I Jim, what I said was the village won't give us a building permit.
That's what I said. I said what I said about the bank is we need to close on
that million bucks. >> Okay, and you can do that.
» Well, then the village is going to have to make an exception to their ordinance.
» Okay, go ahead, Brian. >> Um
Both similar. Um The the thinnest edition was back in
May. But it's after everything. So, so it's
not a last-minute change, but it isn't
anything that was going to proceed. Um
For J and N Builders Um
I would have known The developer's agreement was a bit
silent on either
or guarantees regarding schedule. It's pretty just silent.
Um I would have agreed
um from the staff side, we've got the village
practice and policies and ordinances which
do state that the development cannot be accepted until all the public
improvements are Um
So, that's We're really going in that world where
it can't be accepted and if it's not accepted, you can't get a building. So,
just right there. Um He's also right
uh that
you don't have to sell the whole lots, right? Um at some level
having those lots sold starting does does help the village to get in.
And those tax donations help. Uh so, hot off the press, Matt and I
were banging our heads together back there.
» Can I just clarify one thing? Did you just go
The original The plans that we have were approved by the village. I lost for lost
tapping into the existing water. >> That's right.
» Thank you. >> The if the village is
So, it's mostly a procedural thing to say you cannot have a building on an
empty until all the public improvements are
completed. >> And the intention there is that we have
» Many communities have that. The intention is
you don't want some new family moving into town, buying for
all the world they think is a um
parcel, getting a basement going, and they're ready to move in on Christmas
Day and there's no water. And that's what you're trying to avoid.
Um
So, that that's why that rule is there. If
the village is up for electing that you know, special case.
Now, we just seem could
extend enough pipe from the parcel towards getting this.
At least enough to get the sidewalk. You won't be able to fire up to get the
curb. That was
But if the sidewalk and poor sidewalk is falling out.
From staff standpoint, he'd he'd be okay with the technical aspects of that.
Cuz then in spring when this was torn up,
it'll save time. Instead of tearing it up twice, we'll tear it up the same time
in spring. They just dig down find that end,
go all the way to the pipe in the street, then pour the pyramid concrete.
Parallel with lot sales and building permits.
So, from a technical standpoint,
staff's comfortable with that idea. You would take a it's just a decision by
this group to make an exception that Jeff can so I'm just ready to
finish his portion of fence which is the
curbing gutter and repave both feet. All right, thank
you. So, I wanted to toss that out there as a
potential compromise. I know those 12 lots are
only I mean, you do have
Jeff money and financial surety in place
still. And we would keep that in place until all the public
improvements installed. So, you do have
protection in case they go bankrupt or they cease
to do things. You have the money to help.
You have something. But I mean, it's 20 minutes away.
So, nobody's heard of this in the minute.
» I think our proposal is sound. But anyway, the only problem with that is
there'd have to be a pretty good penalty against the village
because the village is also
obligation is the new water main. It's outside our
requirements and plans. And so,
again, I got Well, it doesn't matter. I like that idea.
But, we couldn't go forward without some type of
fine, if you will, of
a date,
because we can't proceed You know, you're worried about us going
bankrupt, and I know you said that cuz and that's a reality. I get it. Goes the
same way. We don't know the village is going to put the water main in.
So, how do we know? So, we're trusting you, you're trusting us, but at least
you have our surety if we don't do our work, but we have nothing against the
village if they don't put the water main in.
So, now, we have 12 lots, and we're right back to where we were
today with an existing water main that was is
planned to
be receptive to our 12 water laterals until the idea
came of a new water main, of which I fully agree with,
but it's just the mechanics to protect us because this is a village change.
It's nothing we brought up.
» I don't know the for whatever it's worth, the village sometime
was unless it changed their mind the last 30 minutes, was
still planning on signing a contract with Houston to do the work
this fall and sign down the contract to sign.
» Oh, so you're doing the work this fall? >> That was the intention back in May,
June, and July when we were talking to Houston and I had to
wait and he came and he claimed he could get
it done 2 weeks ago.
» Okay. I mean, >> So, the village was planning
talking with Houston, telling them going to do this. We've got twins that are 2
months old. Like paper plants. Um
and then I was going to sign a contract that he's going to sign across the
table. So, instead of a contract, he said I
can forget it. >> But again, that's not our
negotiation. That was between you and Houston.
» Correct. >> Mhm.
» So, how does that affect this? I guarantee for you.
» Well, it it doesn't because it's not again, it's not getting done this fall.
» No, I mean >> If the contract says it's done in the
spring, the delivery is guaranteed. >> But the problem
» Houston. >> So, just from Tommy's stand.
Okay. So, the village allows building permits
when everything else is done except finished work.
And we go and sell to everything you just said. We just go sell the builder
A. They start construction.
We're going to have to go out on a limb and give them some guarantees that
there's ultimately going to be water to their lot.
Well, because there is water there, right? All we're
talking about is replacing a pipe. It's not like we're saying we're going to
remove the pipe and there's no water there. So, your big thing, let's say
that the village goes bankrupt and they can't put the pipe in. There's still a
pipe. You just connect it to the current pipe.
There's no risk there. It's not like we're pulling the pipe out and saying
there's no water there anymore. What we're saying is we want to put in a
newer one. >> Well, it's going to
» That's what we're talking about here. If if if you make it sound like we're
pulling the water and now you may not have water to hook up to. You're always
going to have water to hook up to. >> Well, then your attorney is going to
have to draft a pretty strong contract that we sign with all these guarantees.
» I I don't know what the guarantee you want
that there's going to be a water main there.
» No, that if not done by a next date, the city or the village is going to pay us
» Okay, but >> $1,000 a day.
» Why would we do that? Why would we do that to the builder?
» Cuz you guys are changing the game plan. I have approved old plans that will hook
up to your existing water main. >> And you can still do that. We're not
pulling that water main out. What we're saying is you may have to wait till
spring to do it. >> Well, that's not part of the deal.
» I don't think anywhere in that Nowhere in that agreement are there dates and
times when any of that stuff has to be done.
» Out there. >> I think there's not.
» No, but I'm just >> Cuz that's not a common thing. Cuz it's
construction. So, it's not something that's in there that says we told you we
were going to have you hook it up on September 5th of 2026.
» It doesn't say that. I would go to any court of law saying in the industry we
have approved client. >> You do have approved and we have a lot
of money to give you. >> I want to use them.
» And that's fine. It doesn't matter the date. It's irrelevant. We have time to
do it yet this year. We're going to do it. We have We don't want it done
because it's going to cost us a ton of money and we have to give a permit and
we don't want you tearing up our road right now.
» Listen to what you just said. You don't want to do it.
» The village. That's exactly right. >> I do and you already approved it.
» No, we approved you hooking up to the water mains and we're still going to
hold true to that. >> No, the plan
literally shows the lateral hooking up to the 6-in. That's our approved plan.
» But it's not a date and time on it. >> matter.
» Sure it does. >> I can put those in anytime I want.
» No. >> Brian, is it not standard of the
industry if you have a set plans that are approved by the municipality the
developer just does it? >> I mean, I've been doing this for over 40
years. I've never had a municipality tell me, "Oh, by the way, you can't
complete the project that we approved your plan."
» And we are not saying that. >> We'll go to court on that, Jay, all day
long. >> Well, Jeff, just let's just say you're
going to be coming up next month, right, to extend one of our rules of moving
dirt on September 15th. So, should we hold it to the line and say, "No, on
September 15th, you got to shut down your project." Would you like that?
» You can't cuz we'll be done. >> You'll be done by the 15th, so you won't
be asking for that. Okay. Well, that's good to know, but you were planning on
that anyway. We probably still would. >> But if you turn us down, we'll still get
our work done. >> Well, you know, we've been very
cooperative and we have banned a lot of things for this project. I think this is
a very small ask from the village to ask for you to wait
whatever amount of time it is to put in so we can put in a new pipe and we don't
have to shut shut down our road during school
to accommodate 12 laterals going in when we
could do it in the spring all at once and not make hassle twice and tear up a
street twice. It just makes common sense. And we're asking you
to just play along and do a compromise. And like I say, the lab the water's
there, so even if this all goes south in between, you still have a lateral.
You'll still be able to hook up to water. There's no worry for any of those
construction people. The difference is the timing of it.
» Well, and that's that's what we're talking about. So, how do I tell the
builder, "Oh, you need a building permit, but you know what? I don't know
when you're going to get one." >> Well, you that Well, you don't want to
say that. You're going to get the water is coming in in the spring.
» What are you telling the people with the MG&E not having electric and gas? What
are you telling them now? It'll be done. By
by >> Man, when is it going to be there? Right
after Labor Day. And it's going to take a while.
» Okay. >> It'll be done.
» All right. So
» And when are they going to get into phase two?
» We're not asking for that. >> So you're asking for water but not power
and electric at this time. For that for that lot.
» So >> No, I answer the question. Are you
» Yes, we can follow our schedule. When finish is done, the electrical will
be done. Cuz the lots are 80% graded.
» Okay. >> By the end of this week, it's going to
be Look, the phase I mean, we're putting curb in in phase two on Monday.
That's how far along we are. >> Yeah, I know.
» So >> But that has nothing to do with MG&E.
» And why do I don't know why you keep bringing up MG&E.
» Well, it's just Well, it's just taking us 9 months to get it to our to our new
building. So >> Well
» I get it. You know. >> They're paying. I get it. I agree with
you. So Well, here's the deal. You give me a
contract or agreement with a financial guarantee we need, we'll sign it.
With short of that, we want to hook up to the existing
set of plans that
We want to bait court, but that's where it's going to go
if you don't give us some a financial guarantee.
» Which is totally >> You guys are going back on the game
plan, Jay. >> No, we're not. We're There's nothing
changing here except for we're asking to just delay that. But what which isn't
even We're not even asking to delay. We're We're just saying we may not give
you all street permit to tear up the street. That's all. In the contract, it
doesn't have these dates in there that you're
referring to. All right? And so I don't think we're breaking anything here.
We're trying to be reasonable to our taxpayers and everybody else.
» I >> Right? And
it's just common sense. In the last 40 years I've put in as many single family
lots except maybe two people in this town. I don't know. I agree. Okay. Yeah,
I have never had this discussion. >> But you never had this situation before.
And we haven't had any problem with you. Yeah, we disagree. Yeah.
I'm not going to debate anymore. We have a
approved set of plans that does not say you can't go and do your
There's no date. There's nothing for the village that says you can't do it.
What it does say is if you do what the approved set of plans are, you can
proceed. Dates are irrelevant.
I've never had a contract that flat out said you're going to tear up. I agree.
I agree with you on that. We all agree. >> That was definitely
» All right. Bobby, Judy. >> I was going to ask so the lots have all
been sold. But do you We anticipate all four lots are going to pull building
permits day one? >> No. Don't know.
» Okay. Yeah, I did not have an idea of how many would be there.
» All right, Judy. >> Um as far as the road closure goes, like
how long when they do go do it? Um this is really When they do go to do these,
how long do you think the closure is for the village?
I mean are they going to do one lane at a time? I mean like does that whole road
get closed so they have to go like around I mean like the whole road gets
closed? >> I don't think you'd have to close this.
The whole whole thing. >> Didn't we do this on Fiddler's about 4
years ago where we closed Fiddler's for
» Airport Road was closed when Township Airport Road Yeah, Airport. But
you're right, Fiddler's was closed. >> It's going to be a heck of a piece of
work. >> So it's totally closed. It's a detour.
And what do you think the time frame might be on that kind of
» I think if it were done all at once, probably six weeks.
Uh if it were to done in two steps, probably four weeks each.
» Well, well we could we could get our work done in probably a week.
A week to do. This took about two weeks.
» It It quality, that plus the curb plus full asphalt.
Sorry. >> Go ahead.
» And then my other question is this, um the reason we don't want him to do what
he wants to do is because he has a tap and we are worried about main breaks or
we're guaranteed main breaks or like that.
» Well, that's one of it, but the main thing is we're putting in a new pipe.
» Right. I just want to know I know but she wants
» I bet Is it 100%? No. I would say 0%? No, either.
» Right. >> Uh so there's this
some chance that this breaks
jam. Okay?
Um that's kind of a
on the ability side that's something we're concerned about.
So I can't tell you this this might happen.
Um so if I find out the thing I was kicking
around at staff level was
an ideal where we must don't want to
regress. I was willing to take down that risk.
That was not something we were looking for.
» Take a risk of >> Are you guys being mean or
» Yeah, but yeah, but they fix the main breaks if they happen in January 3rd.
» Well, we wouldn't do that. I mean that's >> Do I think it's
» Wait, wait, can you let me ask one more question for you? Um as a I'm just
thinking as a consumer, how do I feel about buying a lot that I'm not sure
about water? I don't know. I Do you think you're going to have a trouble
selling those and getting You won't have a trouble selling them. You're just
worried about the building. >> No, cuz the way our offers are
structured is closing will occur within 30 days after the village signs off.
» Okay. >> And would And would allow a building
permit. >> Okay.
And we could do a building permit with a water getting there, knowing we will get
there. But do you feel like your consumers your your buyers will be okay
with that? >> Only with a financial guarantee.
» Okay.
» There's a another alternative which is the craziest and and
Brian already shot it down. I don't know what I thought.
We will sell you
those of all lots and then you guys
can deal with the builders and you guys then can do finish whenever you want it.
Our risk is gone and the village takes on all risk.
And it doesn't It'll cost them money up front but they recoup it
uh as soon as the building's home closed. The whole
There's a little bit of profit only cost.
Um but that way then the village controls everything.
But Jeff, you already told me you can close on all these lots. So, there's no
financial risk you're taking. You said that earlier that you can close without
having the laterals hooked in. >> With the building
» I didn't sell. I just said we need a building permit and Right, but there
there'd have to be a whatever from the village to allow us to
get building permits. But then I went on to say if that is the scenario, we need
some financial guarantee that we can pass on to our buyers because God forbid
it's like Brian explained right away, okay, we're going to we're going to
guarantee our buyers they'll have water May 1,
June 1, pick a day, right? So that our builders can construct
knowing that, and then all of a sudden, if the village
hasn't got their work done, the village can't get us water or our builders
water, we're going to have to compensate those builders,
and we don't feel it's fair that comes out of our pocket.
Because we have approved plans to tap into the existing water main.
So this shouldn't cost us a penny. I agree.
» That's fine. I'm just not seeing where the penny is going to cost you. That's
where I'm having a hard time. >> I just There's two scenarios. Number
one, they don't close because of the uncertainty. And number two, they close
and we don't get them water. >> See, I just two examples. I just don't
understand and maybe it's just I'm too dense to understand this. There's water
there already. What we're talking about is replacing a pipe.
One that's already there. So the water's there. So I'm not sure where you keep
coming out they need guaranteed that there's going to be water. I just don't
see us saying we're going to pull that old pipe out and we're going to tell
everybody on Finister they no longer can have municipal water and we don't
replace the play the pipe. That just doesn't seem like a scenario we would do
just like we would not buy the lots. As long as that's in the agreement, that's
fine. >> Yes, sir. I don't you know, we're not
here to be difficult, but the reality is we have approved plans with the village,
and we have all 12 lots to close. Now, the village needs to come up with a
scenario to protect us. That's all I'm saying.
We're not saying no, just protect us. >> So what if
» Okay, I have something to and Bill and Jed.
» Okay, so I'm not an engineer.
And I'm trying to follow what's all taken place here.
But right now we have a main going down Venice.
Is that going down the center of the street or is that kind of one side or
the other, do you know? >> Mostly north.
» Mostly on the north side. Okay, so it's close to where the development is.
» No, it's the opposite side. >> It's almost on the south side of
» Okay. So, to connect into that water main
what what Jeff wants to do
who would be responsible for putting that T in that goes over to Marston?
Marston, you see. Okay. So, you're responsible for
doing whatever surface work to do to pull up the the
uh dig that hole
put that T in there, put the water main down down through Marston.
» No, no, no. It's going to be each house. >> What
That's the lateral. >> Right. That's all that we're talking
about. Everything else is done. We're just tapping into those
» We're not responsible for any main. >> But you're coming
So, you're taking you So, you're going to take the main coming out of Venice
and you're going to tap 12 lateral out of that?
All the way down going >> Yeah, east and west.
» from
» Yeah, the lots that that that open up to Venice is what we're talking about. All
the infrastructure in there is already done and good to go. What he's talking
about is the 12 lots that open up to Venice Street
that would the lateral would tap into not new piping
» Okay. >> but the current pipe that's in the
ground right now.
» I got you. Okay.
That makes more sense. Now, I understand where you're at now. Okay.
Thank you. >> Yeah, go ahead, Chad.
» Yeah, I'm just not comfortable with any of this. I mean, there's nothing in the
packet about this. Now, we're talking about buying properties and needing
attorney guarantees. So, I make a motion that we postpone this to the next
meeting.
» Uh Well, if you made that motion, is
anybody going to second it?
All right, there's no second, so the motion dies. I think, Chad, it's
important while the information is not there, cuz it's obviously very fresh,
this this concern came up, that it's important for everybody to at least hear
the background. Um, I
I agree, there isn't going to be a decision tonight because of where the
differences are between the village and the developer. So, we're going to
clearly have to uh obviously refer and and talk about
it, but I I want to make sure that everybody here has an opportunity to ask
the questions with the engineer and Jeff and understand what we're actually
talking about here. Bill.
» Just one one one more thing. >> Um
» Seeing as Jeff brought this up, um I think we need to staff needs to bring
Paul in. Seeing as you want to bring this to a
legal issue. You say you wanted to bring it to the courts if you don't get your
way. So, I think we need to bring Paul in.
» Absolutely. >> Well, and let him let him look at the
kind of track and let him evaluate it quickly, right? With your lawyers
and figure that out. I think that's the the right thing to do.
» So, has anybody talked to Paul? Cuz our attorney has.
And he flat out said, "This isn't your problem. You have approved plans."
» Who said Who you that to what? Pass all that to our attorney.
» Well, let's just Yeah, I I Yeah, but here's the problem
right now, Chris. You know,
again, in over 40 years, I think I've been to
court twice. So, take my comment very lightly cuz
we don't do that. But,
it's not like we're in June. We can't wait a month.
Okay? There's a laptop that's closed, things like that. So, you know,
honestly, you know, I I nothing's going to happen
tonight. I I get that. Uh the first call I'll do on the way
home is talking to our attorney because this has to get settled very
quickly because we need to get this work done
or that legal agreement signed very quick.
And again, I have the lawyer with the experience would tell me we we will sign
approve the plan, we have the right to do that.
» I just Like I said, I I'm not going to argue that legal point, but before you
can do that, the village, my understanding, needs to give you a
permit to allow you to damage our roadway. Correct?
» I think there's more that we need from the village, but yes.
» Okay. So, I'm just going to play that out that that's still in our domain.
Right? And is it to ours that in fact there's a
delay? >> That's all part of what we'll be
talking. >> Yeah, I think there's a lot of lot of
issues here. Um and I think we do need to sit down
and look at this and try to come up with a compromise. I don't think it's that
difficult to do.
But, I do think that uh the village has been very
open to making modifications to certain things to help your
development along. And I don't think we've asked for very much from you on
this. And this is an ask.
Even though it may be clearly legally that in that uh
developer's agreement you can do that, right?
We are asking for something that will benefit the
village and its residents. And I think you need to go back and
think of all the positive things we've done as a village to help your
development and maybe it's time to look what you could help us on on something
like this. And yes, did we foresee this? You know, a year ago, two years ago, no.
It came up, it was an idea, it made sense, and just I think it makes sense
to everybody. It's just the timing of it.
So, >> I guess Brian a question.
» Sure. Just want a little I just want a little bit more clarity on what you were
talking about. So, I assume what the delay till spring would be is they
didn't build that frontage down to the sidewalk, don't put in the curb, so that
allows us then in the spring to go and tear things up with the main and then
finish the road with the curb. And that's what all that was alluding to.
» Right. So, it's a single closure. >> Single closure in the spring, don't
put the curb in cuz >> Right.
» you're going to come back and do that, but you do
the whole replacement in the spring with the water main. And then at that time
when the road's locked up, that's when you put connect the lat rails to the new
water main idea. All that. >> Right.
Right. >> That
You're looking for a good solution, that's the one that sounds great.
» And you know, again, we're in favor of that with a surety
of some financial >> I don't understand your fear. The
village isn't going to do this. That's why it's not going to happen.
» Well, but I can look at it as a consumer. Would I want to buy that
property? >> Not sure.
» I mean, how many of us are thinking as a consumer?
» But I think as a consumer, it's in the best interest to
have a new water main. Because then if I'm coming to like take a look and I see
that oh, there's a water main break or you know, I hear about this and I feel
like that'd be in the best interest of the builders also. Like you're getting a
new water main. Also, you still have access to water if we didn't. So that's
where I agree with Jay. So >> And the obligation is the village has to
supply municipal water and sewer. We can't just tell you not to do it.
You know, I I like I said, I'm not seeing that fear factor, but we let's
just Um I I just don't think we take any
action on this and I think we need to set something up and
see if we can work these things out where everybody's happy with it.
» Yeah, one other question. >> Yeah, go ahead, Michael.
» So there was a discussion about whether or not electrical and gas were going to
be making it to these northernmost phase one. And there was a little discrepancy
on whether or not there was. So you're making it sound like all utilities are
going to be hooked to all the houses in all phase one but phase B. Like there
isn't that utility delaying of electrical or gas.
» No, we we met with MG&E I think it was the week before Friday. We can do
Monday, it doesn't matter. Um because it's hasn't been fun dealing
with MG&E. Um but we had
some pretty important people there. Um that's where we got the date of the
first phase um
starting around Labor Day. It's going to take about a week.
Um and then the good news is they're very
receptive and open and knowing now that they kind of dropped the ball on phase
one and they will share with us phase two will be very shortly later on.
» Well, so this is phase two of the
» phase >> of phase one. This This is what you
would have said. >> It is.
» It's phase two of phase one, but that is they've done like, "Okay, we're going to
do this one before whatever."
» Yeah, I think they might even said when they they're already doing phase one
depending on where we are. They might just do phase two.
» Okay, they might not know for a long what's going on.
All right, okay. That's cuz there was some
I wasn't sure if there was going to be other utilities making up these lots.
Yep, this fall. >> Most of it's our intent to you know,
again, it was our intent since day one that all these lots
serviceful, completed, village happy
by the end of year. >> Thank you. Can we
Can we just fix the semantics because in the project there's phase one, phase
two which is different whole different part of the area of Marshall area.
Uh I'd really like the 1A, 1B. That makes more sense and it's all the
clarity when you're trying to understand this from the notes and
looking forward in a year from now. So, if we can just I think Jay brought that
up. Phase 1A, phase 1B.
That at least that that keeps everything straight. That's all. Just the semantics
thing.
» All righty. I think we've gone as far as we can on this. We'll clearly be in
contact with you. Hopefully see if we can work something out.
All right. Number four, discussion and possible action regarding phasing cost
scenarios for Park Street improvement. Brian.
All right, who wants to can a summary of >> be Brett and Matt'll do it. Matt can do
it.
» Okay. And I think what we should We're staying focused on here are the
scenarios that we kind of talked a little bit about after the last meeting.
Uh Michael brought it up of instead of doing it in three phases, doing it in
one and all the pros and cons. That's what we're talking about. We're not
talking about the money part right now or to approve. That'll come in the CIP.
Go ahead and Yes, what are we
Well, I I think Michael Michael you had a couple You had some
questions. You know, let's let's talk about you asked me the
questions and I didn't know. Okay, I'll help remind you. The engineering Has the
engineering been done on all of Park Street?
» It is not. >> Would it be possible to have it done
by the time we would start? >> Yes.
» All right. So that was one of your questions. You remember that? You
remember your second one cuz I'm not able to answer all of those. Go ahead.
» I don't remember. Well, let's
» All right. So when we're looking at it uh just uh to confirm, it's basically a
5% savings if you did it all at once.
» Approximately, yes. >> All right. Now
I don't remember if we had this discussion, but Seth brought it up.
Did we ever talk about putting a path or a sidewalk along Park Street when we did
this? Cuz I know that scenario that you have where you gave us cost does not
include that. >> It actually does.
» Oh, it does? >> Yeah.
» Okay. >> level
Uh forgive me if I was too forward. At At level when we do our budget
estimates, we just kind of kick ideas around the
staff. I mean, is there any chance there's going to they're going to want a
sidewalk on this? So, we In those budgets, we do have one sidewalk,
sidewalk, not both sidewalks. >> Okay.
» Just just to be conservative. >> No, that's good. I'm glad you said that.
» Cuz that's very good. And you can pull it off. Just cuz it's in the budget
doesn't mean you can >> No, no. I I think uh
I think that's brought up, and I'm glad Seth did, cuz then I've been looking
more at the cost of the sewer and water and then not even thinking of the road.
So, I do think that is a critical place to have a sidewalk or a path.
» If we do it both on just one side, so they're not crossing.
» Yeah, I see. >> We didn't go into that far detail.
» Okay, okay. >> No, but I agree with you. We And if we
can do it in the roadway, I think the southern part would be the best to hook
up to where the post office is, cuz there isn't too much after that, and
that's more open lots, you know, parking lots and stuff. So, that where it gets
tight, it would be easier to take from those empty lot sidewalk than the other
side that already has a part of it, but you got a retaining wall and everything.
I'm not sure why when we allowed those two duplexes, we didn't connect the two
sidewalks. >> I'm thinking there's utility poles all
over on that side. >> You would do
layouts for the group as I said. >> Yeah.
» Okay. >> All right. Either you or you decide.
» No, no, no. I >> Money's in there.
» Oh. >> And I think there's a bunch of like safe
walk to school grants, so. >> Yeah.
Okay. So, that that's good. That answers your question, Seth. We do, and it's in
the budget, so that's great. Um
So, let's uh I I guess maybe there isn't uh I would
like to hear from people here what they feel of the idea of doing it
all at once versus two.
Bill. >> So,
we save save 5% ish one way to go there.
Uh we'll have to take out a loan earlier than later to do the work.
So, mathematically are we still saving that 5% having to
pay whatever interest we have on that money
that we're taking out before 2027 or 2028 whenever we're doing the second
part of that road. So, instead of doing
part one of Park Street, part two, and taking out two separate loans, right,
and getting deferred interest when we do the second, we take out one
big loan to do all Park Street to save the 5% in construction fees, but do we
do we at least not pay a 5% interest through that first year?
» That would only come into effect if we had the money and we were making
interest on it, but we're not making There is no
» No, we're not making We're paying We're paying interest to
the bank to whoever's giving us the money for the loan.
» No, it's going to be always the same. How's that change?
» It's going to be a >> I get what you're saying.
» I understand what you're saying, but as a caveat to that, if we wait a year and
the cost of metal pipe to put in the water main goes up 4%,
» Yeah, you're right. >> just
saved all the first >> Or if interest rates go up 2%, there's
no saving. >> I understand that. But that was my
point. If Are we thinking about I the interest on the money
» My my big thing is affordability. That that's the number one for me. And
and I might as well speak now because I'm going to be saying it during the
other discussion on capital law together.
We're going in We just borrowed 4.1 million bucks.
We just had the average home went up 67% in assessment. So, that means any of you
that done your calculations, if you're over 67%,
your taxes is going up. Right? If you had 67, it should stay the
same if we don't make any more. But, anything over 67, you're paying a bigger
bigger share of it. So, for me, I'm up 91%. So, I'm going to go up 30-some. My
My taxes is going to go up because the average went up 67%. So, if you're over
that, if you're under that, your taxes goes down if you're looking at today's
numbers. So, that's hitting people. We're talking
about raising water rates. So, that's coming
out of some of their out of our residents. So,
you know, the the question to me more is affordability and how much this is going
to cost. And, while I hear what you're saying and
I'm all for saving money on projects, where I thought you were going is the
cost of doing it all at once is going to be a huge increase
in debt. So, that means a huge increase on what we have to pay. It doesn't go
against the levy, but we still got to pay that debt off. If you stretch it,
then you're slowly moving it up instead of hitting everybody
with a big hit right away. It would take a little bit more thought
because I got to figure out when we're going to make the big hit for water and
when we're going to make some of these other improvements that
uh are out there. Um so, that's where my thing is, can
the residents afford doing it all at once?
» Well, there's another alternative to that, too.
Maybe is, you know, one of the things we're
going to be talking about later is capital.
» Yeah. >> Right? And if some of that can be
delayed >> But the original plan was over 3 years.
It's three phases. >> Right.
» That's the original plan. That's what's in the CIB. Yeah.
» Okay. >> Right.
» Yeah. Yeah, it is. And then that's And I think that the reason is it gives
an easier >> Right.
» take on people's property bill. Go ahead.
» Okay, so I understand you're talking about a one-time hit, but people will
whether they pay for it in 1 year or they pay for it in 3 years, they're
still paying for it the whole amount in in a 3-year time period. So, there isn't
really any affordability savings if it's happening anyway in 3 years.
» Well, it's still going to cost the same. >> And so then when you have then a 5%
savings on a 300 and $3 million project, that's $150,000.
What that means is that savings then then the next year when we do our $150
street savings things, guess what? We just saved $150,000 by doing Park Street
the first year. That $150,000 we saved then that's a free paving job for the
village by doing it all at one time. >> All right, Sarah then myself.
» I think what you're saying is I I just was thinking that it helps us to budget
more because because we're going to be looking at each year, it's
it's right there in the forefront of our mind. We're thinking about that versus
like if you did it all at once, then I feel like we might start thinking
about other projects. >> Yeah.
Michael, I think uh your while your numbers are correct
that after 3 years you're there, >> You're right.
» but there are a lot of people in this village
that are on that line and over 3 years they may able to do it
because they can maybe save this or they get a raise at work or they do something
like that to compensate for that. But there's a point where you raise it
so high, it's almost impossible for someone
to cover. >> I've got something next.
» Okay, you know, so I I think while again, when you look at it logically and
numbers-wise, you are you are absolutely correct. But what you're not looking at
are people's ability to pay. And if you can stretch it out, and that's why
people take car loans cuz they can't come up with the cash right away. They
spread it over 5 years cuz they can make that. So,
um I just wanted to point out that that's the other side of the coin.
All right, Jed, you wanted to say something?
» Yeah, I agree that affordability is going to be a big issue. Um, you know,
besides the things that were mentioned with tax assessments, I mean, I I've
heard lots of residents talking about, you know, maybe having to sell their
house if their tax assessment goes up that far because they're already at that
margin. Um, we also have the school district trying to do the referendum,
which may or may not raise the taxes. It may keep it equivalent, but now you've
got another tax, if you will. Um, so I would be in favor of doing it
in three phases. >> Okay, I got Michael and myself.
» All right. So, if we go to a three-phase thing, you're returning Park Street 3
years in a row. You're causing all kinds of headache on Park Street for 3
summers, street and road, rather than just the one shot. And we've already
done sewer and water, we've done it in one shot, man. We did Church Street, the
entire thing, one year. We just got it done. If we're talking about concerns
about affordability, why did we build an $8 million new village hall if now
everybody all of the sudden nobody has any money to pay for anything?
That's what I don't understand. >> Well, I agree with you. Oh, hang on.
» Let me say that because if this makes sense financially to do it all in one
year because we save money, but now it's but now that every single time something
that makes sense on paper to save money is not you can't afford it because it's
too much of a lump sum, how are we going to convince people that we're putting in
paying for a giant water tank over in Marston? There's no affordability thing.
There's a one-time thing of what, $4 million in the CIP? And this is an
opportunity to actually actually really save money by doing a project all at one
time. >> Okay, Michael. I think you have a very
narrow look. Let's talk about the Village Hall since you pointed that out.
Sure. We have spread that cost over 5 years. We bought the lot.
We then paid for the the architect. Now we're paying for construction over 2
years. Over 2 years.
And we timed it where we took things off debt, so there was space. That first 3
million people didn't notice it because we pulled off we had completed debt. So
that replaced it, so it stayed neutral. So I'm going to disagree with you.
Village Hall was well planned out for the whole thought of not jumping up
the cost of people's property tax. All right? So that that's one thing I want
you to correct. Now let's talk about the reservoir you talked about. That
reservoir we're getting someone to pay 57%.
I'm we as a village are saving 57% on a reservoir. We're not paying 100%.
Now if you can get Park Street someone to pay for 57% of it, I'm all for doing
it all at once. But you're not there. I just want to make sure you've got to
look at big picture here and look at the planning that has gone into some of
these major projects. All right. So,
I'm I'm understanding where you're coming from. I'm just
Well, no. There's no way they actually have a chance
But Michael, I brought that out as one of the things that should be taken into
consideration. I'm not saying that I'm even for breaking it into three. I'm
just giving you the feedback on why it would make sense
to break it out. And that's the main reason. All right. It also would make if
you ask me, I'd like to postpone the thing until we really know what's going
to happen next year with a number of projects that are already going.
» Well, I'm fine with postponing. >> So, but we have the people here. And
again, this is a discussion that we need all of our input in and looking at the
different one. There is not one solution to this. And we all probably have
different ideas on where we weigh weigh things. You know, I'm all for saving
money. Absolutely, 100%. I'm just wanted to point out the other side of it where
that can be a problem to some of our residents. That's all.
» Bill. How many water main breaks do we have on
Park Street? >> Um I believe there's
» Per year or so? >> Uh there's 20 documented. Um the pipes
was put in in 1959. So, we don't really have a whole lot of
information prior to 2000. But >> But even in the past couple years, we've
had quite a few >> There's about one a year.
» About one a year? >> Yeah.
» And what's it cost us to to fix to fix that?
» Uh but I thought it was only 5,000. >> Yeah, it's like I did a rough estimate
of, you know, 5,000. >> Who would pay for it?
» But I think the main reason we're looking at part three is more to the
sewer side of it because it's very old piping in there and it's clay piping and
the water's getting into the pipe and then that goes to the
sewer plant which affects capacity and affects that clear water that we get
graded down on in those reports. So it needs to happen. I don't get me wrong. I
am not arguing that it doesn't. I'm trying to piece everything together that
makes sense and keep it in an idea that
there's so much uncertainty next year on how this all works with
this big assessment. Everything's going to be tied to that. So I just want to
make sure we have a good decision here and like I say
I may you know, I'm kind of saying if like
just let's get it all done with, but I do need to know what the total impact is
going to be on our residents and it's you know, we're working hard to see what
the budget and what salaries and base budgets are for that part of it. Then
we're looking at borrowing and we got to realistically look when we do the CIP
what we're doing there because while it doesn't hit levy limit, we still got to
pay for that debt. >> Okay, so I got one more question.
» Yeah, go ahead. >> So then
» These are important. >> Yeah. So
what is what is the impact on water sewer if you wait a year?
A year then. >> Well, the impact is $2 to $5 per
thousand gallons treated. So that means just that more much more I&I going to
the sewer plant that needs to be treated that shouldn't happen.
» Do you have a guess on what that cost would be? I know I've tried adding this
together. >> I know it's a guess.
» So it would maybe Well, at the high end it would be $1,000
but the low end is $400 for the elbows. Two per thousand gallon. You're doing
Well, if you're if you're doing 250, two is 500 and five is 1250 a day per rain
day. This summer when you rain days are >> It's I think I estimated about 100 rain
days and it was around $70,000. >> Okay. Okay.
I mean this summer we probably haven't added too many though.
» Uh June was >> They rained every day it seemed like.
» They hang on for a day or two after >> I think it's rained then. But I don't
know. We've had pretty dry spells this summer.
» Yeah, July was very dry.
» All right. So this So if we delayed this by So if we delayed this for a year,
figure the cost is going to be in the neighborhood of
You could say >> 70. That's a firm 70. 70 grand.
» Okay. >> That
But I I don't want to keep throwing things in but the other problem that is
I'm not It's There's more of a chance of interest
rates going up than down. 10-year uh government notes are at the highest
level since uh for the since the last decade. And a lot of long-term mortgages
are tied to that. So that's
I don't I don't want necessarily we have to play that game but
» and >> I know it is. I'm just throwing that out
there. I'm I'm trying to read everything here.
» Right. I get it. >> And try to put all the pieces together
for us. >> I have one question.
» Go ahead, Jed. >> If we delay that for a year, I mean
we've got the wastewater treatment facility updates for $2.7 million
dollars the following year in 20 28 for the water infrastructure at 3 and
1/2 million dollars. I mean, are we even able to push that off or we pushing then
other things back down another year? >> Well, the
sewer we'll wait for that report and I am
hoping it's going to be here the next month or two. That'll give us a really
good idea but that's a separate thing cuz that's a utility.
Um and that one if you remember we're in really financially that is probably in
the best shape of anything in the village. If you remember with the
auditor's report on the borrowing uh they like a one-to-one but we're at
one-to-three a little over three it was 3.1.
The water's definitely going to be uh
a concern. Uh again that won't that'll be by the utility but you're
right that's going to come out of people's pocket. Um
and you're right that could be it's probably more likely two three years I
would think. Don't you think Brian? Would you think in two years the
reservoir would be up? >> Uh yes.
» Oh, you do? You think oh, okay.
» It'd be here winter of 28. Or fall 28.
» Oh, fall of 28 okay. So, but we could do this in 27.
That would spread it out. Those two projects.
Right? >> Yeah, then
even though we have the repairs on the sewer they're still
that's >> Yeah.
» that's all good. >> Yeah, I like I say I'm pretty
comfortable >> Yeah, just project wise.
» Yeah, yeah because of and and we'll have a better idea at the end of this year
on sewer because then those rate reduction that we did will be 100%
accounted for. But right now the sewer looks really well looks really
good and the adding of the new houses and
the uh
connection fees and stuff were really kind of building up
cash there.
All right. Um are there any more questions on this
cuz I don't I don't I don't want to vote on this until we get to the CIP.
But this is your question to brainstorm on uh
the scenarios that have been brought to you and have any questions
answered. You guys uh Jed or Cameron you got any more questions on any of the
scenarios or how they would work? >> No, I'm good right now.
» I'm also good. >> Okay, very good. Um so we will continue
this when we do the CIP.
All right, good.
Okay, five discussion and possible action regarding proposed
bicycle ordinance amendments to section 51.14.
Who's taking lead on this? >> Chief.
» Chief? >> Cameron Cameron you can start if you
like. >> All right, Cameron you're up.
» Sure. Um so
you know public safety took this matter well I
don't know it was three-ish months ago four-ish months ago
we we had quite a few meetings on it because it's coming up more and more
across Dane County and other places. I mean in fact even since we had our
original proposal for updating the ordinance, you know, I think UW Health
has come out with a pretty prominent um safety study around e-bikes and and
stuff. So, really applaud Chief Tony for having kind of the foresight and stuff
for us to be be looking at this early. Um we did we came to the Village Board
with a an original proposal out of uh Village out of Public Safety and um
there were some concerns in particular about um parks and trails and, you know,
what would be allowed there. So, we referred the matter back to parks. And
then the matter matter came back to Public Safety uh this past week and what
you're seeing now here I think is hopefully the final iteration after
parks and Public Safety have taken a number of bites of this apple.
Um do you want me to read it or can I go
over some of the highlights? >> Uh
what do you want? >> Well, I I would just add that not only
has that gone through the committees, but it also has been seen by our Village
Attorney twice.
» Okay. So, why don't you go through the highlights uh Cameron?
» Okay. I mean the the key highlights from when you guys last saw this
um are the additions to um so, before we had said no e-bikes, no e-scooters, no
nothing in any parks or trails or conservancy.
Um we had that has been amended slightly here. So, now it's just class three
e-bikes are not allowed on any of the um the trails in in paths.
Class one and two uh and electric scooters are allowed,
but they cannot exceed 15 mph. Um also in addition to the park land and
conservancies, we um well, the parks committee um added sidewalks as well,
which was good. Um we've added some stuff in for um you
know, you know, if the Chief of Police or someone he designates put signs up,
we could, you know, say, "Hey, no e-bikes here." That seems to be very
similar to what Madison and Middleton has.
Um And the we are suggesting not suggesting
our ordinance will have that groups of riders on bicycles and e-bikes may
operate two abreast instead of single file in the village that aligns with
state law. Um
I think the only other thing we really changed since the last time this group
saw it is helmet requirements.
Anyone riding a class three or I'm sorry, anyone riding an e-bike under the
age of 18 um will be required to wear a helmet given
that they go a lot faster.
» I think this timing is perfect and I really appreciate all the work. I saw
that not only on the local news but it made
on the national news. So, it is a topic that's very current and I'm glad we're
in the forefront of doing something. Did your I think this is great. I'm very
supportive of it. The question I have for you is what
did you discuss any things on strategies of getting the word out and educating
the community on this? >> Well, I think for us it's going to be a
lot of social media getting the the schools.
We've already had one bike rodeo during national night out but doing another you
know, bike rodeo during that time. I mean, these things are going to be put
to sleep here within the next month or so. So, I think we're we're on the right
trail. We'll just have to hammer it away, you know, put it in the paper and
whatever wherever we can put it, maybe through flyers,
posted everywhere and anywhere. Um I think that
that will be uh for sure. And you're right, it's not only it's making
national news, but it was just it was in the local municipality was talking about
it. I mean, everybody's talking about it. It's it's
it's it's a it's a topic and um the
I think that this was well thought out. I appreciate Parks taking
a hard look at it. They even looked at it from the lines of public safety also.
So, I think you know, we we saw some things. I mean, there's some things that
you know, some disagreements, but that was all healthy and helped us come with
this final product. Uh, I will add that um
our village attorney had also in number 15 where it says electric bikes and
electric scooters, he had put just bicycles. And I just felt that was just
that's just too much to enforce helmets on
regular bicycles. It just seems very heavy-handed.
The other thing we will do is uh once this gets approved uh in whatever group
whatever state it does, um we're going to educate our officers. They're
well-versed in the state law of it. Um fortunate for us I have Matt as a member
of the Traffic Safety Commission. So, he brings back a lot of topics from that.
But also, we we've had uh education from other communities uh through PowerPoints
of what they're doing, um incorporating that on their own village ordinance but
how the state law works. Uh, we'll be very, you know, proactive on this, you
know, when we Right now, we do a lot of proactivity on bikes, you know,
giving if somebody's got a helmet on, we're giving them out,
you know, tokens for ice cream and and just addaboys and high-fives and those
kind of things. I think this will will come in handy. The village is There are
village members who are are confused with state law and why don't we have an
ordinance? So, I think this will help guide them. You'll also see that there's
some stuff embedded in here um that is already state law, but we we
put it in here so people could read it. Much like the fireworks ordinance, if
you remember, the reason we added some language is because you can always lean
on numbers and say, "Well, you can look at, you know, state statute, whatever."
But the ones that we saw for sure need to be abiding, and we added them to our
ordinance, even though they're already even though they're part of state law.
So, it's just to give some some language for the people to read.
» Okay, go ahead. I had a question. >> Go ahead.
» You were first. >> Okay.
» And then >> Um
So, if I read this, I'm just wrapping me. Are bicycles not allowed on
sidewalks? >> Bicycles are allowed.
» They are? >> They are allowed. So, I am
» We just have to give >> We're just adding this to the bicycle
ordinance. Bicycle ordinance already exists.
» But the bicycles won't have to give right of way.
» Right. Right. But I'm just thinking I thought it was no bicycle and I'm
thinking my little 4-year-old granddaughter, she's on Actually, I want
her on the sidewalk. You know what I mean? It's on the sidewalk. She can be
on the sidewalk. >> As long as she's as long as she's not
going over 15 mph, Judy. >> Um the other thing you'll see here is
there's some that seem kind of
weird that we wouldn't enforce like racing, for instance, right?
Two bikes can't race. Well, we're we're not specifically talking about like two
8-year-olds racing their bikes down the street or they're on the sidewalk.
That's not what we're talking. We're talking about kids that can go on the
e-bikes really fast racing down the sidewalks
I mean, we've been passed by some of those bikes um in our SWAT times, and I
have to educate people already because we have state law. So, that the spirit
of this law is not to enforce it against those little kids having a good time
outside with, you know, It will be very well monitored
and how in compliance will be the most important.
Uh this is more, you know, if you've got a couple kids racing down Main Street at
20 miles an hour on their e-bikes, that is
covered by all means for the law. That is all.
» And there's going to be a big educational part.
» educational part of that. And we'll hammer education
before them. >> Bill.
» I really appreciate Safety and Parks taking the time. This has been an
ongoing issue and so I am going to
make a motion that we approve the ordinance to repeal and recreate section
551.14 of the Village of Cross Plains Code of
Ordinances concerning bicycles.
» I will second. >> All right, I have a motion and a second.
Any other discussion? Now, this is one of those ordinances we should put on our
website that it's a change.
And did you did either of the committees do a public hearing on this at all?
» I think we asked that question. >> Paul said we didn't need to cuz it was a
change. >> No, no, there's legally you don't have
to. It's just sometimes we do it like when we did the ATV UTV, we had public
hearings just so people don't accuse us of doing things behind their backs.
» I think the first time, if I remember correctly, that we had this on the
agenda, we did have kind of an additional public hearing. Do you
remember that, Jay? >> I
» [laughter] >> Okay, maybe not.
» It's just a matter of months.
» But yeah, I don't think anything happened at at the committee.
» we have to do it. I'm just asking so people
ask me or >> Yeah, it might have been at the
building. >> That if we did if we could if we did one
brave if we didn't find >> I'm pretty sure we did one. I just cuz I
added in an additional public hearing and I remember you saying why did we do
that and I was like just in case somebody had something to say.
And I believe Jill Hedgecock said something came up and made a remark.
» That's right. >> Yeah.
» So if we did one that's that's fine. I just want to like I said I'm just
asking for information that it's not a critique in any way.
All right. Any other discussion? All in favor say I.
» I. >> All opposed same.
» Thank you. >> Yeah, thank you. Good job.
All right. Six discussion and possible action regarding the new Village Hall
Police Department. >> All right. Want to start with
technology? >> Yeah, why not?
» All right. So I'll just give you brief history even though it's not actually
that brief on the technology bids. Um so this was back the first time we
came to the Village Board with bids was June 22nd and then after those getting
reformatted and split into a separate security bid and an AV bid
we came back on July 27th. Um and so the board chose to award the AV bid and not
the security bid. So it's been another month and so now tonight we have
security bid options for the Village Board to consider.
Um and so three came in. Um all relatively close so those were
all opened on Thursday at 2:00. So we had Omni Technologies
out of Oregon, Wisconsin, Community Enginee- Communications Engineering Co
or CEC that is who the AV bid was awarded to.
They do have a Madison office and I think their headquarters are in Iowa.
Um, and then Advanced Technical LLC out of New Berlin, Wisconsin, um, came in as
well. So, there are three pretty close bids here, um, tonight. The low bid is
Omni Technology at $157,223.
Um, however, your second closest is CEC, who is also doing the AV bid at 160,
um, thousand 114. Um, so, roughly, you know, under a
$3,000 difference between the first two bidders. Um, so, the recommendation from
Wold is the low bid, um, without the alternate, so just the base bid at
157,223. And I do believe Matt Bickel's on the
call as well.
» Yes, I'm here, Carli, if there are any questions.
» All right. I just have one question. How closely are together
is the security system with the AV, the audio-visual part of it? Do they use the
same software? Do they use the same hardware?
Um, is there going to be where they need to
talk to each other? I
» Generally no, Jay. I mean, they will have some pieces of equipment that live
in the same environment in terms of the server room or IDF, but, um,
in terms of the the systems themselves, they are
independent. >> Yeah, and the reason I asked that, we're
looking at the difference of, uh, basically a little over 3,000 to have
the same company, which would avoid any finger pointing
if we have a problem, if they're connected enough that that could be a
problem. If they're two separate units, and that is not a concern that I'm fine,
but I have no problem spending extra 3,000 to help if if that's going to be a
problem. They just don't want to have to fight, you know, it could have cost us
more in the long run. Is there a chance of any type of
finger-pointing on this stuff?
» I would anticipate not. Again, it's they're they're they're not running on
the same cable. Um you know, they're different pathways, different conduits.
Um No, it it should There shouldn't be any
risk of that. >> A question I would have is would they
be, you know, ordering things at the same time from similar companies, like
the timeline of things arriving? Would would that be a benefit to having them
both? Having the same company provide both?
» Um I I think that any benefit that
you would potentially have gained from having them together, we
sort of proved out when we um
when we bid it as a combined package. Um the
the opportunity for um
that economy I think is would would have been in, you know, some of their
site supervision, project management, that type of thing. Um
In terms of the, you know, equipment that they're ordering, you know, I don't
know that there's any significant savings from sourcing it
combined or separately.
And to that point, um I think CEC had that opportunity in bidding it the
second time to to realize that since they had already
been awarded the contract for the audio visual package that they perhaps had
some economy. So, I would have expected that to have been reflected in their
bid. Um
you know, if that were the case. So, my guess is that they sharpened their
pencil as much as they could, um you know, based on that
reality and that's what you see reflected here. So,
» Bill, why are we not doing alternative number
one service maintenance option one or two?
» Great question, Bill. So, um the base bid includes a 3-year
um main- maintenance expen- extension. So,
that's a service agreement and an extended warranty
uh for both the audio visual and video surveillance components of the project.
Uh we bid alternates number one and number two to give the village some
um exposure to what uh that
a continuation of that cost for an additional 3 years, so 6 years in total
would be. Um
but I I don't know that at this point um it's kind of like the uh
the uh the service protection that they offer you at Costco or Best Buy or
wherever you buy your technology, right? Um you know, it it's kind of that added
warranty that probably doesn't get used um a heck of a lot. So, um
to go the extra 3 years, um we don't think it's probably worth it
at this point. >> Great. Thank you. I appreciate that.
» Do you have any other questions? >> Cameron, your thoughts, please.
» Um I think I don't think we would need to combine them. I mean,
I agree with everything that was already stated on kind of
we would have seen, you you economies of scale if that were the case, um I would
go with the first one. The two-per one.
» And what about uh since you're in this business, the
warranties and stuff? What Bill was bringing up.
» Oh, I agree with him completely. They're
unlikely to be used. Um Yeah.
» Okay. Perfect.
Chad, do you have anything uh you want to comment on this since part
of this is kind of what you do for a living?
» Uh I guess my only question was, >> [snorts]
» you know, adding in another contractor, I mean, I guess that's the concern with,
you know, now the project manager has to deal with
somebody else. Do we have any issues there or is it the same kind of verbage
here that they should have bid it if they C E C wanted it and it is what it
is?
» Or the >> Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of times, um
and what we saw when we bid it the first time was that
and I I don't know with Omni specifically.
Um you know, Communications Engineering
Company is an outfit that does both audio visual and security.
Um
Often times, you will have companies that specialize in audio visual and they
would have had to bring on a subcontractor anyways to do the
technology or vice versa. Um
so, I I I I don't think it's uncommon that you know, you would you would see
separate vendors in these uh disciplines
on the same site at the same time. >> Okay. Thanks.
» Any other questions? Go ahead, Michael.
» I don't know if I have a question, but yeah, I I really don't know. I mean,
having the one company do it sometimes I mean, the one company do it. Like what
do were saying. Are there things there, other people
there, other sub contractors there that are the
I don't know if that's worth $3,000 or >> That's where it's like
It is dealing with one person and not two people and something happens cuz
they are both contractors. Hopefully, unless they're two
independent divisions of a company. I don't know. I don't know.
» Well, I think that last point, we don't know cuz
it could be where they're uh
the one that we have for audio visual might be their main and they just are
subbing, you know, for the bid part. I don't I don't know.
I I guess I'm I'm comfortable going with
the lowest unless there's But that is a the valid point, but it seems like most
people don't think that's going to be a problem.
» No one else? >> Go ahead, Bill.
» I'll make a motion that we approve Omni Technologies for the Off-Plane Village
of Ball Police Station security package for $157,223.
» Second. >> All right, I have a motion and a second.
Any other discussion, Sarah? >> I just wondered, is there anything on
like the village's end that having the two separate companies is going to add
more uh hassle? >> Well, it should be that this is just an
install. >> Okay. I mean, we'll have to do like the
like new customer paperwork and kind of like the onboarding that we had to do
with CEC already. I'm assuming we'd have to do that with Omni as well.
Um but I don't know like what to what extent that might look like for that
company. Um I guess yeah, the benefit would be
that we're already kind of an established customer at this point now
that we've filled out all the paperwork for CEC.
But >> But for the $3,000 savings, do you think
it's reasonable? >> I I just don't know. Like yeah, I can't
anticipate. I mean, the the other thing I could think of is
yeah, the extra like extra group on site. I know things are getting pretty
tight as far as walls getting closed up as far as like running conduit and
things like that. Um so, like these both companies are going to have to work
really closely with Brickel Brothers to get things moving. But, I mean, we don't
know we have no way to anticipate how that's
going to look, I guess.
» Carly, I I excuse the
um unknowing question, I guess, but is there a local ordinance that allows you
to take a non-low bid?
» That's what I was wondering. >> Uh yeah, cuz this is a service. It's not
We follow uh state statute, and then we have
» our own purchasing policy. >> Yeah, purchasing uh policy, and we've
got all of that. >> So, we do have the option, yeah.
» Yeah. But, generally, you want to go with low
bid unless you can come up with a really good reason. And to me, if there was
shared server or software, that would be automatic 3,000. I would definitely do
it to prevent the pointing of fingers if something doesn't
work. That for sure would have been a
no-brainer for me. >> Yeah. Does that change anything for you,
Matt? Like any of >> No, I just wasn't aware of how you were
going to go about making that uh motion. Um
it'll be unusual in my my world, but
» All right. Anything else? All right. All in favor, say I.
» I. >> I.
» I. >> All opposed, say so moved.
» All right. I think you're up next again, Matt.
» Want me to keep going, Carly? All right, great. Um
Sounds good. Uh so, we do have change order number two to present to the board
this evening. Um
there are three items that comprise this change order.
Uh the first one is by far away the largest of the three.
Um so, I will do my best to explain it and then answer any questions.
Um so, as
I assume everyone knows, um during the design of the project, uh a decision was
made to um uh delay installation of an emergency
generator for the project as a cost savings measure to some point uh in the
future. And so, the project was designed with
that future uh generator reality um you know, sort
of contemplated. Uh that means that the spaces um you know, planned for it on
the site, the you know, conduits are run out to
um the pad. Um you know, there is space in the electrical room for the automatic
transfer switch, uh etc. Um in doing so, um we also
um included in the project a what's called a docking station.
Uh that is basically, you know, an umbilical that uh in the event that
well, you don't have a generator, you find yourselves in a prolonged period of
power outage, uh and you want to bring a portable
generator onto the site, you can do so, plug into the building, run the building
off of that portable generator. Uh the added secondary benefit of that um
docking station is down the road, once you do have a generator, if you need to
do some type of maintenance on that generator or replace that generator and
again are without the generator for some period of time, you can use a portable
generator as a backup for the building.
Um it's a little bit atypical and so
as the project was designed went through the shop drawing phase
where the contractor was submitting their you know sort of you know
schematics for what they were planning to
purchase and install it came to everyone's attention that
there is sort of a component of
this that is lacking. So um
essentially when there is an automatic transfer switch that is intended to flip
the power from you know your primary power to your generator or from your
generator to your um
your docking station or portable generator
that provides you know the necessary isolation between the
various power power sources
because the automatic transfer switch was planned as a future component along
with the future generator we don't have that mechanism for
isolating it and so that needed to be added to the project. Um so that's
what's the cost here the $29,145
is to add the component that makes that sequencing
work. A couple things that I will mention
there's really no other way to do it short of
buying the future transfer switch which would be
a more uh significant cost
and you would be paying for this at that time anyway. So that the same component
is going in now into the panel would be a component that you would need when you
had that transfer switch. Uh so it's a little bit of now or then
uh situation. The second part is uh when the cost was
originally submitted by Brickel Brothers um through their electrical contractor,
uh the cost was actually closer to $48,000
um and so through meeting with them, through kind of talking through what it
is that they were proposing to do, uh we were able to
um you know, recognize a reduction of that cost down to the 29 145. So um you
know, we do believe that this is the the fair value for it. Um it is required to
make uh the emergency power systems work uh as intended. Uh and so that is why um
you know, we're asking for this to to be included
in Brickel Brothers contract. I'll pause there and answer any
questions before I move on to the other two items.
» Well, I I got a question, I guess. And this is just for the board. Why
wasn't that put into the original document since from day one we knew we
were going to need this? And so, you know, it's been
on my mind is why wasn't that in there? It certainly wasn't the village
uh neglecting to say what our future plans
were. I mean, it was from day one we were planning on doing this. And now
I think it's a little unfair that we have to add this on because it
wasn't part of the original plans which was bidded on.
» Well, um I mean, that's that's a a fair question, Jay. Um it it
was not included in the specifications for the project again
I think because of the atypical nature of the configuration
and so it was something that should have been included
and should have been part of Brickel Brothers bids from day
one but it wasn't included in the specs and so they they didn't have that
covered in their bid and that's why it's a change order to their
their contract.
» So I I
I'm still I'll I'll be honest with you man. I'm still because you know, I'm
tolerant for errors. Everybody makes errors and stuff but there's been a
number of things that have not and this is one that's a little frustrating on my
part because this was so well documented in our
discussions that we were going to do this. I just don't
understand why we have to pay 100% of of this.
Cuz we really quite frankly have no
no thing in here that would cause us to have cause this
to happen.
» So you should get it for free. Is that what you're saying?
» Well, that would be my starting point. Yeah.
That would be my starting point but >> Well, let let me say this Jay for the
sake of moving the conversation forward. Um
whether you think that the village should be responsible for paying for it
or not the reality is that Brickel Brothers is
due this amount um due to the fact that it was not in
the specifications. So I would I guess recommend
that the change order needs to be approved in order for the work to get
done, for the project to be completed. And so, I guess, if there's
you know, other discussions that need to happen beyond that, I guess, let's let's
have those conversations, but I don't think that not approving the change
order to Brickel Brothers is probably an option that you have.
» No, and I would that would not be my option at all. I
I I agree with your statement 100% and we certainly can't
do I don't want to have any responsibility in slowing this project
down at all. I just want you to know that at least from my perspective
and uh
we can approve this with the understanding and the verbage that it's
under protest and then we can uh have discussions later on
on on this. So, I kind of agree with you, but I just wanted that
you to know that this is at least where I'm coming from.
And we'll see what the board wants to do.
But, I agree with you, we need to approve it. It's it's needed in the
building. I don't know if they've already ordered it. I'm hoping they have
because I know what these delays are, but I just want to make it very clear
that we you know, I'm going to ask the board to do it under protest.
» And just to answer your question, the we communicated to Brickel that this was
going to be included in an upcoming change order. Um and so, with that
acknowledgement, um you know, they did go ahead and release
it as to not cause any delay. >> Perfect. Thank you.
All right, any other questions on this one?
All right, why don't you go ahead with the next two then? Thanks.
» Yep. Um so the second item is um there's an area in the lower level
uh in the toilet room that has a shower in it.
Um there was some plumbing piping to
serving the shower uh that um needed to be routed
um along uh the port and place concrete foundation wall could not be obviously
poured or or put into the wall. Uh and so as a field condition, they had to fur
out that wall um so that the piping could be concealed
within in the wall and make the the toilet room work. Uh that was an add of
$623.79.
And the second item was at the high roof of the main entry.
Um there's kind of a three-sided parapet wall along that sort of sloped upper
roof uh that drains to a kind of a gutter on the fourth side.
Um during the
structural engineering shop drawing phase,
um it was discovered or indicated uh that
they needed to add a little bit of steel reinforcement or steel kickers
uh to um add to the rigidity of that uh assembly. Uh and so that was a
an add uh in the amount of $835.92.
Did anybody have any questions on this?
All right, Jed, Cameron.
» None for me. >> Nope.
» All right. Do we have a motion? Would you like me to do it?
» Maybe he's got it. >> I make a motion
uh to approve uh
the change orders. Uh the It's just change order two.
» Number two. >> Yeah, change order number two
with the understanding that the um
docking station connection is under protest.
» I'll second that. >> I have a motion and a second. Any
discussion?
All in favor say I. >> I.
» I. >> All opposed say
So moved. All right. We will go Thank you, Matt,
for coming to the meeting. >> Thank you.
» All right. We are now at discussion and possible
action regarding the 2027 capital improvement uh project. What
we're going to do is we'll go through this
uh each line
and um vote on them indiv-
individually. I'll have Bobby to start the process,
kind of explain what the red means and
and what all else you want us to know before we start this discussion.
» Yeah, so the projects in red um are ones that are kind of up in the air right
now. The flood mitigation project we actually got an email today from
Wisconsin Emergency Management. >> Mhm.
» Um so this This one where we were told that there might be additional
grant funding to increase the project. Um so I think that she said we could go
ahead and submit something for that. So again,
these numbers will likely change before this is up for vote.
» Right. Can I just comment? When she's talking about the changing of the
number, ours will stay the same at 25. It's the 200,000
that may go up if Brian's still here. At least 100,000 if I'm right. Or is it
200,000? >> It was 100,000.
» could go up to 300,000. >> He asked for the full amount.
» Which was 300 or was it
» the total I think he asked for the total cost of the project.
He He just sent that email today. >> Okay, I guess I missed it.
All right. But I thought we still had a do a match
of 25,000. But Well, we can check, but generally the money that I My
understanding we were trying to get more money from FEMA. And uh
through emergency bill. >> And then obviously Park Street,
we haven't decided for sure what we're doing there.
And then I highlighted in red the annual street resurfacing just in case
you know, depending on what we do with Park Street, we want to do an additional
project in that.
I think that's kind of curious to work to the
Oh, and then on the second page, the
Marshall water infrastructure.
And then, you know, those
numbers might change. Well, you know, on in the wastewater
treatment, obviously we won't go for once.
So we could tentatively approve projects or just
» Well, I I can tell you what I'll When we get to the water treatment one, I'll be
asking to postpone that to the first meeting in November.
So that way we can get that report and have time hopefully to uh review it
weekly. We'll have some >> And again, approving this CIP plan
doesn't mean we are doing the projects, right? It's just
It's a part of plan to do them. And then they will be put on the budget
and then we can approve or deny them on the budget again.
» Yeah, they can come up, but I I would ask that if we approve that means we're
pretty much in support of it, yeah. >> But what was she just meaning that we
approve it? >> So it's
What what what the What she's saying is we approve this
and then when we come time to borrow, if there's a crisis somewhere and it needs
to go somewhere else, we can say we're not going to borrow for this.
» Oh, so you would mean that? >> What I mean is if we approve If we
approve that Whatever we approve tonight, I put on the capital fund
budget. >> Right.
Oh. >> So then when we approve the capital fund
budget in November, you know, something changes, you can
» We can change it. >> change it in that.
» Of the capital fund >> Yeah, but I mean we can change it until
we actually buy the item. >> Right.
» No, I I understand. >> Yeah. Okay.
» I was just trying to figure out what he meant.
» All right, so let's just let's just start at the top. The flood mitigation.
Everybody's still comfortable with that commitment of 25,000.
And if it disappears, that's even better.
Any questions on that?
All right, let's do a motion on it, please.
» I motion to approve the What did he say the year? Just one flood
mitigation project in 2017. >> Yeah.
» I'll second it. >> All right, a motion and a second. Any
discussion? All in favor, say aye.
» Aye. >> Aye.
» All All opposed, same. All right.
We're at the next one. Replace the 2007
with used vehicle.
» I didn't know we had a 2007 Dodge Caravan.
» It's that maroon one. >> Yeah.
» It's an old van. Um currently it's sporadically used for
water meter reading. That's about the only thing it's used for. I know it
I'm going to say 3 years ago in the capital plan Mike had proposed
trading it in and getting some grant money for an electric vehicle, but that
grant money fell through, so we never did that.
And so it's kind of those things like, you know, what would you do with it
again? And so then we had an idea that we'll go
to Papa. >> Well, it's just uh
you know, sending guys to class, sending guys to on the east side of Madison for
water samples, just have a different vehicle rather than a 2500 or 3500
truck. You know, um and then Becky can use it.
Uh staff can use it to go to trainings and just kind of have a
a normal vehicle rather than these big trucks driving them.
» Go ahead, Judy. >> And then like let's say they didn't use
it, we would just reimburse them on their If they use their own vehicle,
that's more reimbursement for their gas. That's right.
» Right. >> Yeah. My question
» So we would push to use this more used reliable vehicle
than a the minivan that we have.
» Do you think this could wait a year?
» The minivan isn't getting used now, so whether
it's not going to get used if it waits a year, but we there's an essentially an
empty spot there.
It would be ideal to have.
» So So it isn't Do we have this vehicle or did it get sold? You said it's not
being used currently. >> Uh we took it up to auction because it's
just wasn't It It It won't hold a charge. It had some mechanical issues.
» So we don't really own this. We don't have it anymore. It's
» Well, that's what you're saying. We don't have a place. We don't even have
it. Have it. You want You want You're
actually asking to buy it. >> You need a vehicle.
» Yeah. >> Mhm.
» Okay.
» And do we know how much you got for the van?
» Uh it it hasn't hit auction yet. If we get a thousand dollars, I'd be
impressed. >> Good.
So, what is Becky using to leave?
» a personal vehicle. >> Personal Otherwise, she'll like if
there's a truck available, she'll use >> She used the blue truck for a while.
» We're not up there.
» And how many miles did we put on that van when you were there?
» How close to use? Uh well,
» In recent years, not often not much at all.
» Was that It was Jerry's vehicle. >> It was uh back in the day.
» Was that just because of its reliability or just because it didn't It didn't have
» We travel to big towns. We're in Corbet.
It's only in that park. >> All right. So, it doesn't sound like it
was being used that >> No, it
» No, it It had only been being used for Becky to
do water rounds. But then it got to the point where every time she shut it off,
» the battery died. >> The battery died. We'd have to We'd have
to go out there and jump it. Just It was not a safe reliable vehicle that I felt
comfortable her going in. So, then we started making sure trucks are available
or you know, even sending guys, you know, we even did class up in Green Bay.
We had to take one of our 3,500 trucks, you know.
Ooh, a Silverado 3,500 or 2,500. That's just not very economical.
» And how often do you go out there to change it?
» You know, once twice a year or >> Um a couple times a year.
Um they're usually up in Plover for the water, the sewer. Um water you need 18
credits every 3 years. And then you got a sewer that's another 18 credits every
3 years. Plus the other
trips. >> How How about
Here's a suggestion. I would say
uh we take this off and we look at what we have at the end
of the year to go into the fund balance
and if we're over our 20% we can just pay cash using that instead
of the borrowing of it.
» So you could like like not put it on the like on our budget but do like a bunch
of them then. >> Yeah, we do we do it we'll see what it
is if we have that extra cash because that we kind of always use for capital
this way again knowing what happens it's not
necessarily there and it can come back and you guys can actually come back with
an actual vehicle saying we'd like to purchase
this vehicle. I just think it would clean things up a little bit and why
borrow on that. >> I talked to Dean and just get a rough
number of what a used used vehicle would cost and it's once we had an amount I
was going to go to him and say hey can you keep your eye out
for this price range. >> What are people's feelings on that?
» I'm with you on that one. I don't want to I think we got so many vehicles right
now. >> Okay.
» Anyway. >> I don't want to do it right now either.
I feel like we can get by with reimbursement and gas for now. I mean
they're you know maybe they could do that for now cuz we don't get paid very
often. >> Okay.
Um do you want us to put this to a vote or
are you comfortable with what is being said?
» Yeah, that's >> All right. Jared and Cameron are you
okay with just pushing this off? >> Absolutely.
» Yes. >> Okay.
All right. So then we're look at what I would I'm kind of with what Bobby had
mentioned earlier. Generally when we do a large street project we don't do
uh the smaller annual street resurfacing.
So, I'm just going to flip those two. Let's talk about the Park Street
reconstruction. >> One of the things I left out last time,
just like we did with Creekside Way, there is some alert money. So, this next
year we'll have $59,000 to put towards that. A benefit to splitting that,
whether you do it in one year or not, at least splitting the names of them into
the two projects and that will allow me to go
This year is another alert year that I can go and apply for some match
money for that. What that ends up being is we'll be up in the air to actually
show that. >> So,
you're saying it would be better than to for that for looking at that, it would
be better to split the project than do it all as once. Is that what I'm
hearing? >> Just naming wise. It and
uh >> Are you talking about the street
resurfacing at Park Street? >> No, just Park We're talking
» about Park Street. >> Okay, we're talking about Park Street.
» So, it just gives me a chance to apply for some alert money to put towards
whether it's you can do them all in one year, it's just it'd be
named two separate projects. >> Oh, so okay.
All right, let's have the discussion on Park Street.
I know we've already talked about Yeah, I know it's
But we didn't I I want to know where people's heads are and what you're
thinking. >> With one
» Cuz this is where we're going to decide. Right now what they're proposing on this
is a one-year phase one. Right? That's what's That's what we're
here. So, that's what we're discussing. So, there if the motion wants to do all,
we're going to have to up that, obviously.
» I believe that's >> I want to I want to split it in three
pieces. >> Okay, I'm hearing three.
Equals Go ahead, Michael.
» I spent a little Excel-ing while we were having other discussions and
» You did? >> No, I did
» I'm glad you did. >> I noticed like the numbers about
crossing this project, so I was like, all right, let's see what
I can come up with. So, basically, for the overall cost of the project, if we
do it in phase like if Okay, if we do it all
in 1 year, >> Yeah.
» and this is combined general, water, and sewer total cost. It's about $360,000
of debt. That's doing a 10-year general obligation loan, and I'm doing 20-year
safe water, safe and clean water loans at a reduced interest rate. The general
I did at 4%, the other ones I did at 2.75.
» Yeah, but why did you do 10-year? Why won't you do 20 across the board?
» Cuz a lot of times from this to 10 on >> No, they only do 10 on like cars and
stuff, right? Most street projects are all 20.
» Until recently, you weren't even allowed to do 20 on your bonds. The village
wasn't allowed to. That That state law changed like 2 years ago.
» Right, yeah. I'm trying to figure out >> It was It was It was like last year or 2
years ago. >> Oh, okay.
» We've always been 10-year general. That's why I did that. We've only used a
20 really on the village hall project. Like when we're taking out our loans,
that's really the only one we've ever taken out for longer periods. So, I just
was using the standard >> Okay.
» 10-year. >> No, that's good. I I just wanted to
understand it. >> So, basically, it's 360 per year if you
do it on the 10-year general or the 20 on the others. If you break it out into
three different phases, it's basically 120, 120, 120.
Uh if you want breakdowns of specific things, most of it ends up being on
general obligation of the project. I think the total cost in the packet was
like 3 and 1/2 million and 2 million of that for doing like the whole thing.
Like we're talking about the whole project.
It's 3 and 1/2 million, but 2 million of it looked like it ended up on general
because it was that and so on. Like we did this on general obligation
» Yep. >> from how they have it structured.
» Yep. >> So that's basically what's you're
looking at. So over 3 years it's going to be a 120 120 120. So at the end of
that third year, you're going to be at the 360 anyway, but you don't want those
large hits like what you're talking about. That's basically what's going to
happen. So then like now this is where it gets
all funky cuz I don't know like new assessment values and etc. But there was
a rule of thumb that I while ago I was able to use. When the
village assessed value was like $500 million and you would have a $50,000
house, basically because those divided really well, every
dollar of debt was basically a direct transfer onto a $500,000 home owner.
Meaning 120 You had a 120 If you took out an extra $120,000 of GO debt,
basically said that home owner was paying an extra $120 that year because
on a 500 $1,000 house, because the village was
valued at $500 million like all the zeros just canceled. So you can just
cancel those. Does that make sense?
» Yeah, but I I think that seems high to me. I think 120
for each phase is a little high because I thought
when we had the chart up there, oh that was just water.
» But that's 120 for GO water and sewer. So
» I know that would be an increase of $120 on the property taxes.
» No, that's not what I'm saying. >> No, that's the amount of loan that has
to be. The village has The taxpayer has to pay Taxpayer
have to pay $120,000 a year on GO and increased water and
sewer rates. That's what that village
» Did that make sense? >> Yeah, now now I'm following you.
» I didn't break it out. I mean I can tell you like what it is individually like
» No, no, that's I understand now what you're saying.
» You know, it's uh uh
So, these are just rough numbers. It is what it feels like I'm coming up with.
Does that feel about right, Bobby? Like >> 10.
» Okay. That's That's like what I think I
remember. This is just off the cuff. That's why I didn't have it prepared,
but that's about like
what what it feels. >> Okay, but I I
I'm sorry. I you lost me here. Okay, I know it's How much What's the impact? I
guess I'm trying to figure out here. >> Okay. So,
Now, this is cuz I don't have the new assessment stuff.
» Yeah, I understand that. I I understand that. And that's one of the things that
I'm >> kind of a thing where this is tough
where I'm just kind of speaking out past knowledge.
Okay, if we did Hart Street in in in phases in three
phases, I took that as about $675,000 a year for each phase of general
obligation debt. I'll just speak to that. 675
loan, 675 loan, 675 loan in year 1 2 3 because over the 3 years
that's $2 million. >> Yeah, I'm hearing I'm following you.
» When you take a $675,000 loan over 10 years at 4%,
you have paying and it's just a straight average pay, it worked out to $84,000 a
year. This is what the what we have to pay on that
on the 675, but that's just the first year. Like the next year then that turns
into 160 and then the next year >> Yeah, yeah, I I'm I'm following.
» So, in that first year if it's $84,000, because of that project is $84,000 a
$500,000 house has to pay $84 extra, right? So, the next year, I have to pay
160 cuz >> But now that's just but the next year
it's only going up $84 and the next year only $84 versus
» when you do it all one time, you have $350 in that first year, but you're not
getting the 5% savings by doing it all. >> Unless you subtract that 175 over 3
years using logic, it's 60 under 60,000, right? So that's what we'd be saving out
of that 600 and some thousand. Yeah, 610,000 basically.
» So that was just with the numbers that >> So then can you if you could quickly
throw that 610 place the 670 with 6 610 that'll give us the difference on or
how much really the taxpayer would save. >> I don't know if I can do that.
» Oh sure you just throw where it says 670 throw in 610
and run your spreadsheet it's the same. >> fight is the 150 so you're wanting to
win. >> No, I'm subtracting 60 grand
from each year because that's what we're saving. Right, so I want to see from the
$84 it's probably going to go down to the $82.
» Yeah. Both of you.
» Okay, that's that's that I'm just trying to point out that the savings when you
say in a big lump of 175,000 it is a lot you know, dollar wise but
when you talking about a 3 and 1/2 million dollar project
it doesn't have that big of an impact. I'm just I'm not debating the savings. I
just want you to do the numbers because it's only fair for people because if
it's 84 and people think oh if we do it all at once it's going to drop down to
44. That's just not the case. >> No, it's not going to do that at all.
» So I'm just I again I like you that you did that and I appreciate it but we got
to look at what the other option would be.
What are other people's feelings?
» I guess I'd be more for split at least 2 years. That way on the second year it
gives us a little flexibility if we get in a tough spot. Brian already did a
safe drinking water I think for two phases.
» Um >> And then September 30th is we can go is
when the sewer one needs to be submitted.
» Okay. >> Take that or
» No, that could be a problem for my >> So Sarah, okay. Okay, I got the old down
bill Sarah. >> Oh, so
and this is what I was thinking about in our earlier discussion is why are we
Did we already decide on I know we didn't decide but was three
years kind of like the goal or why aren't we looking at two years?
» Well, we did three years for the one reason of affordability. To spread it
over three years. That was the main reason for that. Cuz it cuz the
engineering, you know, we paid for earlier this year for the first phase.
You know, Brian has said earlier that he they can do the others but yeah, we
could break it into two but the reason we did the three years was for
affordability. It didn't hit the property taxes as
hard. >> That's going to be an issue this year.
» This thing's going to be For some people it's going to be a huge
issue. Others are probably not. Cuz if you're under that 67% you're
going to be less if everything stays the same.
» But they cut me back to 60. >> Well, I don't know. I don't know.
» Because there's a whole bunch that are 80 and 90%.
» Yeah, I'm 91 so >> That's crazy.
» There's people that I'm balancing over somewhere. And that's what was the first
thing that was a little deceiving because in the letter it said 62. That's
community but when I went to open book I said, "Tell me what the resident one
is." And it was 67. >> I want to correct myself. I said I said
two phases. I meant He applied for I think, phase one and
phase two. And then, phase three has not been applied for yet.
» Oh, I see what you're saying. >> Right.
» So, it would mean we could do 3/4 2/3 of it, and then give us a little
flexibility on setting different other stuff or items.
» Like if I had my my phone, put it through this.
» Sarah? >> That's what I was thinking too, that I
think taxpayers want They want the
less of a burden. Like I think they would like the gradual and this year.
» So, okay, it sounds like there's pretty much a majority that would go that way.
The Okay, so then the question is, we're right back to this.
Do we keep this, or do we want to move it off a year? And it sounds like may I
say it's that may potentially be a $70,000
cost, but then again, with Bill and all of us
we're kind of looking at, we just don't know what this increased assessment and
school district and everything else is going to be. And you saw tonight
our Villa Char is going to cost us more than we thought.
This phase we just what we just saw tonight
with, you know, the little the
audio, the AV, and the security that's way over what we originally
planned. >> Judy?
» I would be okay with pushing back a year. You okay with that?
» I'm okay. >> It is
obviously not my first choice or second or third choice, but
» Yeah, yeah. >> I mean, you I get there's only so much
money to go around, and I I would like with all the additions that we've added
to the sewer plan, it'd be nice that we were at least
doing one phase and working towards help correcting that development.
» Sarah? >> I would be for starting now, so that we
could have that nice gradual step up, versus if they started it next year then
we're like, oh, we should do two phases. >> Oh, you're worried about the same thing.
» Yeah. >> Bobby, as the finance director, you're
going to have to help us out here. What are your
thoughts? >> I I do like the three years.
Um I guess thinking of the tip coming off.
» So, you're but I I guess the I think I think the the most of us are agreeing
with the three years. >> Yeah, this is the
cuz your 127 is 127. >> Yeah, what are and you got a better
idea.
I I don't know what's been coming in for
staff and everything. >> So, I is
the water portion of it. And doing our full rate case with all
the other water infrastructure. Like if we would actually have to do two
rate cases if they just pay for this debt.
You know, so if we Just the you know, the do you want to
all the projects on one rate case rather than doing rate cases two years in a
row. >> Well, I think we're going to probably
get tied with that if you look at the our earlier discussion.
I think there's no next year we're going to have to put in the thinnest pipe.
There's absolutely no way around that. Right? I mean, we heard
You heard that and if we want to keep Park Street next year, that's going to
be in it. So, you're already looking at those two projects that I don't believe
the water brings in enough even with the discounted loan on the one.
But again, we're going to have to do it now. I don't think the revenue is there
to cover that. >> So, that's what I'm wondering. that
» Cuz we're at and we were at a 0.49, you know, and it's supposed to be 1.1.
So, we're already way behind on what hell was
» The 3% increase rate case today to get didn't get filed today.
» Yeah, but I I >> Is that
» The bigger one. >> that? I Again, not knowing the exact
numbers on that, is that going to bring us up over one
on that ratio? See, that That's That's my worry
on this, but I don't see there's any way around unless the numbers are I'm
missing something because of that painting maybe
did something that doesn't I just don't know how
we can pay with the current rate for the finish. And if we're going to go for
finish, we might as well go for >> year one in 2027 to combine it with the
finish. >> Well, if
But, if the group and once we get that report, if we can get Park Street to be
paid by sewer, then we don't have to worry about water rate.
You know, >> I thought about that.
» You know, and that is an option that we've seriously got to look at, but we
can't seriously look at until we get that report um from it. But, like I
mentioned earlier, though, in my opinion, the sewer utility is very well
financed right now. Um and again, we'll see what they have
as a layout on the timing, and I think we can actually time that out.
Bill. >> So,
can we in concept approve this as a three-phase
starting in '27, and then
as that sewer report comes out in 2 months,
then will we look at the budget, So, kind of make a decision?
» We can do it that way or what we can do is postpone this to the first meeting in
November where we would have it and then cuz we'll approve the budget in
the second meeting in November. That might be a cleaner way of doing
that. That
might be a cleaner way of doing it because then now we're not rescinding
something that we passed. this item to the first meeting in
November. >> I'm fine with that.
» Bonnie, are you okay with that? Matt?
» Yeah, that's
» All right. I'll make that motion.
» I'll make the motion that we
that we postpone the Park Street reconstruction
until the first meeting in November. >> I'll second it.
» I have a motion and a second. Can someone look that up
for me so I can >> What date for
November, we're going to be there 9th and the 23rd.
» Okay, the 9th, so >> Yeah.
» Yeah, the 23rd. Okay. All right, I have a motion and a second.
Any more discussion on this?
All in favor, say I. >> I.
» All opposed. So moved.
All right, then let's go Do we want to do the same thing with
Annual Street Resurfacing? >> Well, I had a I had a thought on this.
» Okay. >> Um,
we have things to do. Well, but if we postpone
Park Street for a year, then I think we've got money to do the street
resurfacing and we've always said in the past we try not
to postpone resurfacing too much because
then we get behind in the resurfacing, right? So,
uh I However, with that being said, I think
we postpone 2027. If we If we knew we were doing
Park Street and finish, we would definitely I would definitely
postpone. So, maybe we hold off on this >> Okay.
» until November. >> Yeah, we have done both. Like when we
did Brewery and Church, we did not do the annual surface.
» Right. >> Yeah.
» No. >> And we did
» did it this year, too, with Katie. >> Mhm.
» We We did Myrick Street. >> Well, that was That was 60,000.
» Oh. >> Okay.
» All right. >> that Sorry, but then that means it's 2
years that we're postponing then and then we
» Yeah. Yeah.
» Do you feel like there's any major road right now that needs it?
» London is really bad. Uh that needed to be done.
So, if if Park Street gets postponed, that
infra- So,
over the last 10 years, we've done a lot of resurfacing, not a lot of I mean, I
know P was done and Main Street was done, but a lot of
infrastructure is aging underneath. But London, the infrastructure is actually
pretty good, just the road itself is not doing great. Um there wasn't good
compaction when they ran the lateral, so a lot of the curb has sunk. So, it'll
need new
replacement. And I don't think 250,000 is going to do it
all, but it'd be a really good start. >> If we do Park Street in 3 years, so then
are we doing like no road projects for 4 years then?
» No, I I wouldn't say that. No, I would say we would do it. If we did it all at
once, >> Then not
» you know, I kind of look at how many blocks it's going to be.
» Yeah. >> You know, if you do Park Street in 3,
you're talking about two, three blocks a month.
So, I I would say >> I just I like us moving forward on
A Road and the three phases of Park Street and London are probably the four
most important.
» How's this case?
» What was so wrong with This is so bulky.
» I'm just going to make a motion that we approve the part that we approve the
annual street resurfacing for 2027.
» Okay, I'll second it. >> I have a motion and a second, any
discussion? I'm going to go along with this, but if we make a change in the
first week of November, I'll probably make a change in the capital in the
second. >> I'm fine with that.
» Okay. I just want to so there's no
misunderstanding on where I'm coming from.
» No. >> Can I have a reread of the motion?
» Yeah, that we approve the annual street resurfacing for 2027.
» Okay.
» All right, I have motion and a second, all in favor say I.
» I. >> I.
All opposed same. So moved.
All right, we're down to the 2024 skid steer.
» Um this is on a two-year replacement, well we were a year late getting the one
last time. So now it's just kicked to this year.
» I seem last I thought the last time was only like 19,000.
Are we getting a bigger one or something?
» Uh it is a little bit bigger, well we we've had issues with
lifting things and um
salt's heavy, yard waste is heavy, main break stuff's heavy, so it's just we
have other and traditionally we were smaller a little bit smaller before, so
it was a lot of you going on the sidewalks. Now we have two or three of
them machines that are able to go on sidewalks, so
and we have more multi-pass now that are going to be instead of 4 or 5 ft.
» Do you feel like if we get a bigger one this year then we can push it out? We
don't have to do it every 2 years or 3 >> Um I Did I leave it every 2 or I thought
I moved it to every 4? >> Oh, you left it at every 2.
» Did I? >> Yeah, and I think that's because of the
warranty. At least that's what Jerry's thing that you keep you you keep it
until the warranty is almost all you trade it in and then you just are paying
instead of getting that in and all of a sudden because that was been a
discussion many times of just keeping it until you wear it out but then what are
they about a quarter of a million bucks now?
» What? >> A skid steer if you bought it
outright? >> No, they're like 70 70
» Oh. 70?
I don't I thought it was 35,000.
» Cuz we get about 25,000 30 for trade. >> Yeah, I know but why wouldn't we want to
keep it until it didn't work? Cuz >> I I
So my mistake, I think on my fleet plan that I gave you guys a few months ago, I
think I moved it to 4 years. I don't know if I moved this to 4 years but we
kind of Scott and I kind of talked and said that
we should >> So do it 27 but then not again till 20
» 31. >> Okay, if the skid steer the life of it
is 4 years, right? Or is it probably longer than that?
» Yeah, much longer. Yeah, but we we put a lot of hours
» Yeah, but let's say it's you wear it down in 8 years. It still would be
cheaper to buy a new one than to pay this extra
trade in at 35 grand. >> It's also the cost of being down
downtime for any major maintenance maintenance is
down. >> I think
Well. >> Yeah, that's sort of my question. Do you
What Do we need to augment our old skid steer policy guess? Like what you were
saying with the two year because like I remember it was like Jerry saying like
the warranty is only three years old, so you're trading it with another year on
the warranty because you get more for the trade-in but overall what we're
doing it do you think that policy still be done? Because if we go to four years
then it's like falling off warranty and then it's the trade-in like I mean it's
» It's definitely just going to only go down in value.
» Right. >> Um and we put around four or five
hundred dollars on it a year. So it it gets a lot of use. It's one of our
biggest use machine. >> Yeah and see I like I say I I
it made sense when it was 19,000 because I'm thinking then you're basically
renting a brand new one for eight grand eight
eight thou 8,500 a year which is dirt cheap. But now that it's getting to
almost half the cost of a brand new one it just seems to me that we're at that
tipping point where it can >> Well that's why I was suggesting a the
four year. >> Yeah. Yeah.
» I think just how many hours is a useful life for a
skid steer before it starts to have issues? Do you know that at all? Or
» Okay, is that okay? Well then >> It really depends how you use it and we
we put a lot of road miles on it. That's that's not necessarily the greatest
thing for it. >> Cuz you're driving it to where you're
using it you mean? >> Yeah and you know doing brush is it gets
used for all the time.
» Oh no. >> Yeah this has always been just a weird
» You know what? I I guess I I think this is something that maybe
finance could look at. I think we go ahead cuz we can't wait. But I would
really now that it's getting up there in cost I think we really should do a
cost analysis. Cuz if there's 70 grand I mean it just seems It's for me to
you know, kick in 35,000 for just 2 years.
» I think it should be in there. >> It'd be four.
Well, I I know that's where we're going and
then we'll see, but what I'm hearing is yeah, we're not going to get it it's
going to cost us more in 4 years because it's 4 years old versus 2 years old for
the trade-in. So, your trade-in is last so it's
» So, is it is it like like is our trade-in going to be 10 grand versus if
we're going to be buying a new one anyway? And why don't we just keep the
one that we have if we're getting hardly anything on the trade-in?
» And it has been a good machine and we haven't had a lot of issues with it.
That might be >> See, that's why the whole two-year
cycling might have to be more of a math-based decision if it's trade-in or
not like idea rather >> I think we need to do a cost analysis on
it, I guess. That's what I That's all I'm saying. I I And that we're not going
to do that tonight, but I do think this is one thing that we really should look
at. Cuz when it was 19,000, it was a
no-brainer, but I thought they were over 100 grand.
» But now I'm going to like okay, cuz you said taking the
finance. If we don't know how long one of these is going to last because we
don't know how much it's going to be worth in the year you're doing your
longevity cost analysis on it, it's just all projection.
» No, cuz >> I mean, you have
» a machine right now. I can look at the miles and the hours put on this machine
and kind of calculate what it is per year.
I mean, we have a a pilot right now. >> Right, but the question
» And then we're going to have a second one.
» But the whole thing is is this machine that we talked about two Is it 2 years
or 3 years or what? >> Jan- December will be 2 years.
» So, in December it's 2 years, but and so we So, we're saying whether we use 500
miles a year on it. You don't know if it's going to last
another year. >> I don't Let's not get into how to do it.
» I I I think it it is it is a little more this year because I'm I want to go to
the big bigger machine. So, that cost should even back out.
» Like I said, I don't want to do that tonight.
There's an easy way of doing it. People do it all the time on costing what it
costs of a machine, a car is. You can go to Consumer Report on everything. It'll
tell you how much it's going to cost you on average. So, but anyways, the
question is do we want to and I guess because we're going
with the larger one, I'm I'm going to
approve it cuz just on the point that if they need them
a bigger one. Even though I see it's only
a priority of four. >> I'm going to make a motion to approve
the replacement of the 2024 skid steer in 2027.
» I'll second it. >> I have a motion and a second. Any
discussion? >> Wait, just ask
So, why did you put it as a priority four?
» Because I only adjusted the amount, not the priority.
Cuz this was already typically in here. It was already in there.
So, that's That was my mistake. >> Okay.
» And you got to this $35,000 by calling down there and asking how much it is?
» Yep, I got the trade-in values and price list from dealers.
» So, that's what Yeah, but the old one is fine.
» Okay. >> All right.
All in favor say I. >> I.
» I. >> I.
» All opposed say So moved.
All right. 2027 replacement of the 2004 leaf vacuum.
» I thought we just replaced this a couple of years ago.
» No. >> We can't have it a couple of We bought
that from Minnesota for $17,000 on a year ago.
» Yeah, it was on the pilot program.