[0:04] Okay, we're going to call the meeting to
order for the regular regular meeting of
[0:08] the common council Tuesday, August 25th,
6:30 p.m. And we'll begin with roll call
[0:14] and pledge of allegiance. Seth
>> here.
[0:18] » AJ
>> here.
[0:19] » Todd Kirkin
>> here.
[0:20] » Kyle
>> here.
[0:22] » Todd Spaith
>> here.
[0:23] » Cindy
>> here.
[0:24] » John
>> here.
[0:25] » Tanya
>> here.
[0:26] » Steve
>> here. and Christa
[0:29] » here.
[0:37] » America to the republic which stands one
nation under God indivisible with
[0:44] liberty and justice for all.
[0:51] Item two, approval of the August 18th,
2026 regular council minutes.
[0:59] » This is Tanya of approval. Oh, but I do
have a question.
[1:02] » Sure.
>> AJ, I'll second.
[1:06] » So, we have a motion and a second.
Tanya, question.
[1:11] Just uh for a point of clarification on
number nine, it says we were approved
[1:15] for the vibrant spaces grant and there
was some confusion on this last time
[1:21] and I just were were we approved and if
so great and if not if it was a pre
[1:26] approval or a like I just want it worded
correctly so if you're comfortable with
[1:30] what's in here. We were they we sent in
a preapp they responded that it had been
[1:36] we are welcome to send in the
application which pretty much usually
[1:40] means you've you've got it but and then
if then they would have held the 50,000
[1:45] for us like I said now the the audit
when it's done they'll hold that 50 for
[1:49] us so no we're not approved officially
yet
[1:52] » because you should that have to have
council approval to
[1:55] » yeah we have to have a resolution that's
plan should
[1:57] » that say preapproved
>> I think be clearer That's all.
[2:02] » Okay. Thanks. That's it.
>> So, we'll update that to say
[2:07] pre-approved. And we've got a motion and
a second. All in favor?
[2:11] » I.
>> Any opposed? Motion carries. Item three,
[2:15] council announcements.
Does anybody have anything to share?
[2:20] » This is Steve. Happy first day of
school.
[2:24] » Let's go.
[2:28] » That was what I was going to share.
Wait.
[2:31] » Good.
>> Anyone else have anything?
[2:38] All right, then we will move forward.
So, we have um we're going to go into
[2:43] the first period for public comment. If
you have just come in, there is a a
[2:49] clipboard going around with a pen and
there are three public comment periods
[2:54] tonight. This first period for public
comment is going to be for items 5
[2:59] through 13 on the agenda. So, if you
want to make any comments on any of
[3:03] those items, this first period is the
time to come up and make your statement.
[3:08] Um, if you are here to speak on item 14,
which is the public school tax bill
[3:16] transparency or on the presentation on
the resolution opposing the Marbel 765
[3:22] kilovolt project, um, there are two
different boxes on there with those
[3:27] agenda items on there. So, feel free to
sign up ahead of time. If you don't sign
[3:32] up, that doesn't mean that you can't
speak. It's just um we'll go in order of
[3:36] who's on the list and then add people
in. So the first period for public
[3:41] comment um if you want to make a public
comment either online or in person, you
[3:46] will come up to the podium and state
your name, your address, and you'll have
[3:51] three minutes for comment. And Sarah, if
anybody is online and wants to make a
[3:57] public comment, raise your hand and she
will help you unmute.
[4:14] Aaron Parker, uh, Lincoln Avenue. Uh, I
have, uh, two comments. One is um uh at
[4:23] the um
uh public safety meeting earlier, it was
[4:28] stated that the uh that the uh old city
hall property is too small for a
[4:35] building.
Um I'd just like to point out that uh of
[4:40] the historic buildings in downtown that
wouldn't fit on that site,
[4:46] uh there are only three. The opera
house, the Fortney, and the Temple
[4:50] Theater. all the rest of the buildings
in downtown would fit on that property.
[4:55] Um,
if you want what won't fit on the
[5:00] property, a Walmart won't fit, a
McDonald's with a drive-thru won't fit,
[5:06] and I think that's for the better. Uh,
my other comment is, uh, as part of the
[5:11] comprehensive plan, the city of Veroa
undertook a separate historic
[5:15] preservation plan. Now that the plan has
been approved, we can begin the long
[5:21] work of shaping and building uh a future
that allows
[5:27] that also recognizes
uh our history.
[5:32] uh Jason Tish, the senior officer uh at
the state historic preservation off uh
[5:38] office who incidentally nominated
nominated the city of Veroa for the
[5:42] excellence as best historic preservation
commission in the nation for which we
[5:47] were selected uh has written to Cindy
Hubard and me saying quote if the city
[5:53] would like to apply for a grant to do a
full survey of the city I would
[5:58] encourage it. There was a reconnaissance
survey done in 2001, but it looks uh but
[6:04] it looks like it was just a windshield
survey with minimum research, and we
[6:09] like to see surveys updated every 25
years. I endorse his recommendation.
[6:14] Historic preservation in the US is a
very recent thing. It was begun in
[6:19] response to the demolition of New York
City's Pennsylvania Station in the late
[6:23] 1960s.
I've been involved with historic
[6:27] preservation for nearly 50 years. All
the work that I've been involved with
[6:31] has had the effect of saving or
preserving or restoring or sensitively
[6:36] renovating notable historic structures
and/or places. Preserving these places
[6:42] allows people to experience these places
with their own senses. That experience
[6:48] places them in space and time and offers
insight into whom we are and the society
[6:54] of which we are apart. In order to
actually know what places and structures
[6:59] are of value, the city must undertake a
thoughtful, well-measured and informed
[7:03] historical survey of the city. In that
way, we will be able to protect our
[7:08] heritage and be better able to access
our own local history. If we don't do
[7:13] so,
we will be at the um we'll be making
[7:19] decisions based on the economic and
political pressures of the moment. Thank
[7:23] you.
>> Thank you, Aaron.
[7:37] Chapter call 609 South Rock Avenue.
Um
[7:43] the comment just made
refers to the possibility that we have
[7:50] as a council and as a community to
consider
[7:56] the next 20 years in terms of the
comprehensive plan that's been approved.
[8:01] Uh,
and I think as we consider the next 20
[8:07] years, we have to think strategically in
the moment that we're in right now. And
[8:13] that means having a long-term
perspective on what
[8:20] the corner lot represents in terms of
the aesthetic value uh of green space
[8:28] versus the possibility of using that
land for income and tax revenue going
[8:37] forward. Having said that, there are
some safety issues I think that haven't
[8:42] been brought up. One being the amount of
diesel exhaust that happens on that
[8:49] corner every day. And we say young
people shouldn't be in that park, but we
[8:57] have uh a very mobile young young
generation now with the scooters and uh
[9:04] electric bikes. And I see them all the
time down there in that corner and
[9:09] they're exposed to diesel exhaust.
They're carcinogenic
[9:16] and dangerous. And I think uh we need to
take consideration of the air quality in
[9:23] that location.
Beyond that, I'd like you to consider
[9:29] if we're going to commit to the park
that we have a hard and fast number of
[9:35] the cost,
which I haven't seen yet.
[9:40] So,
uh, I don't like going into open-ended
[9:45] projects where we don't know what the
final cost is going to be. And I would
[9:50] encourage you to get a final number
before you make your final decision.
[9:59] » Thank you.
>> Thank you, Chuck.
[10:10] » Is there anybody online that would like
to make a public comment? If you do, you
[10:15] can unmute or raise your hand.
[10:21] Okay, so that is the end of first period
for public comment. We'll move to item
[10:26] five, review and approval of alcohol
agent change for Aldi and that's coming
[10:32] from public safety.
Okay, public safety just met tonight and
[10:37] there was a change with the agent for
the alcohol for Aldi. The name of the
[10:41] new agent is Andrew Van Olstein. The
reason that they're making this change
[10:46] is that the previous agent that they did
have had moved to another location. Um,
[10:51] all background checks and stuff have
come through. So, um, public safety sent
[10:55] it forward with their approval. Just
looking for your guys' approval to, um,
[11:00] change this on their license.
I'll make a motion to approve the
[11:04] alcohol agent change for Aldi.
>> Kyle, I'll second it.
[11:08] » Motion by Tanya, second by Kyle. Any
further discussion? All in favor?
[11:14] » I.
>> Any opposed?
[11:16] Motion carries. Item six, discussion
with possible action on class A beer
[11:21] license for Kikapoo Hospitality LLC
doing business as American from public
[11:27] safety.
>> Again, this was at public safety this
[11:30] evening. This is um a license that
they've had in the past at the American
[11:36] when when it was Vernon in. They want to
be able to have serve beer basically on
[11:41] a to- go basis. It's kind of like if you
went to a quick trip and whatever and
[11:44] wanted to pick up a beer if you're at a
hotel. Some hotels have this. Um the
[11:50] alcohol would be stored in a locked
laundry and storage room and it would be
[11:53] purchased at the front desk if you're at
the at the hotel. So everything is in
[11:58] order in regards to their agent has
already has a license. Um public safety
[12:03] approved forwarding this to you with
their approval. So, I'm just looking for
[12:07] your approval to move forward with this
license application.
[12:13] » Make approval to approve the class A
beer license for Kikapoo Hospitality
[12:17] LLC.
[12:21] » Steve, I'll second.
>> Motion by Tanya, second by Steve. Any
[12:24] further discussion?
All in favor say I.
[12:30] » Any opposed? Motion carries. Item seven,
operator license approvals from public
[12:37] safety.
>> Okay, I have several of them for
[12:40] Walgreens and I'm just gonna state their
names. So, Zachariah Bordon, Deborah
[12:44] Shepard, Maya Campbell, Rebecca Nelson,
Debbie Keance, and Steven Wedwick. Um,
[12:51] and then Gassers has Kendra Balden.
Pizza Hut has Michael Baker, Andrew Van
[12:56] Olstein for Aldi. Um, all of these have
gone through their background checks. I
[13:00] have one that came in today for Quick
Trip South for Carol Fletcher. So, if
[13:04] you approve these, it would be all
pending the background checks. All of
[13:07] them other than the last one has been
approved, but you can just make it as um
[13:12] making sure that all of them have been
done if you so choose to approve.
[13:18] This is Tanya. I'll recommend app or
make a motion to approve CH license
[13:23] approve operator license approvals
pending completed background checks.
[13:27] » No second.
Motion and a second. Any further
[13:31] discussion? All in favor?
>> I.
[13:35] » Any opposed? Motion carries. Item eight,
review and approval of changes to the
[13:40] fire ordinance, public safety, and this
is the first reading.
[13:52] » All right. So last month I brought it to
public safety uh to make a change in our
[13:57] ordinance to go from eight fire officers
to nine fire officers.
[14:02] And the reason for that is as we grow
and continue the the workload um
[14:08] continues to grow that we want to be
able to spread out that that uh amongst
[14:12] more people. Uh Josh now was on
full-time obviously as a fire captain
[14:17] and so we're looking to replace replace
him as far as um his previous position,
[14:23] but we would like to also add another.
So that was the main reason for bringing
[14:28] the ordinance in front of them in the
first place. Uh, as George and Steph
[14:31] went through it, they determined that if
we're going to make one change, we might
[14:34] as well make any other obvious changes
to the ordinance that either does not
[14:39] that needs some adjustments either be it
punctuation, um, capitalization,
[14:45] um, better way to word it. U, they went
through all that. Um, but the main
[14:51] change is again that going from eight
fire officers to nine fire officers. As
[14:55] far as budget, I could talk about that a
little bit. Uh, as far as budget, um, it
[14:59] won't affect it a lot. Um, because we're
still only covering a certain amount of
[15:03] weekends, you know, those types of
things. Um, and then obviously Josh is
[15:08] not getting that that stipened or
whatever. So, you know, we can we can
[15:12] move that to a different location. So,
the benefits definitely outweigh the the
[15:16] minimal cost that we may see. Um the
other changes I guess that that uh I
[15:21] want to bring up is um uh is it three uh
number three on there? Um it was uh it
[15:30] talked about
where the firefighters had to live and
[15:35] state ordinance or state uh law was put
into place quite a few years ago now of
[15:41] where it limited the ability for
the city in this case to um how much
[15:48] they could limit that that piece of it
where they had to live. So, um, George
[15:53] adjusted that to make it make more sense
and it puts it more on the fire chief to
[15:59] determine what works for the city when
we're hiring and working working through
[16:03] that or whatever, what our response
needs are, what their position might be
[16:06] with the department, um, and so on and
so forth. So, the other pieces it did
[16:10] talk about the fire chief and the
assistant chief. So, that's section C
[16:14] there. And that used to require being
within 2 miles both day and night uh
[16:20] majority of their time so on and so
forth. So again completely opposite of
[16:24] what the state law um said you could do.
So he changed it to fit what that state
[16:30] law allows. So again changes mainly due
to um updates and then obviously that 8
[16:39] to9. So questions, thoughts, concerns.
[16:53] » I'd second that.
>> Push your button, too. John,
[16:59] » they add that to the motion.
>> Okay, I'll wave the second reading.
[17:06] » I'd second that.
>> All right, so we have a motion and a
[17:08] second. Any further discussion?
>> I just appreciate that you're getting
[17:12] this updated. It's important to update
ordinances
[17:17] » when you can because
[17:21] » All right. All in favor?
>> I
[17:24] » I.
>> Any opposed? Motion carries.
[17:27] » That's going to be ordinance 26 002.
[17:34] » Thank you, Lori.
We'll move on to item nine, review and
[17:38] approval of pay request number 10 for
Hansen Farm Project Public Works.
[17:47] Okay.
[17:51] So, we're looking at a current payment
for this pay request of 51,818.88.
[18:02] Um there's a lot of stuff all over the
place. They're just finishing up a lot
[18:07] of what's making it look like a new area
to be. Uh so a lot of road work, um
[18:14] curbon gutter and finishing up some of
the the loose ends, so to speak, of
[18:19] things that weren't done before, like
some um sanitary sewer televising, some
[18:24] storm water pipe. Um
yeah, I'm trying to be concise. So, if
[18:30] anybody has anything that they want to
ask about, please do. But everything's
[18:34] making sense. Um, we did have a few
things where like we have a certain
[18:38] category that repeats itself throughout
the pay request. And so, some of those,
[18:43] like for example, is this number 74 is a
good one where it actually should have
[18:47] been distributed better throughout those
other ones. Um, but we've done the math
[18:52] and recorded it and they are on par for
what they should be using.
[18:57] So, that's about it. Unless anybody has
specific questions, this did get
[19:01] approved at public works and brought
forward.
[19:05] » I'll make a motion we approve the uh
Hansen Farm project pay request number
[19:11] 10
>> for $51,810.
[19:15] And is that 88?
>> Correct. Yeah. Sorry.
[19:20] How did
>> I second the motion?
[19:22] » Motion and a second. Can we please have
a roll call?
[19:26] Todd Spaith.
>> Hi
[19:28] » Cindy.
>> Hi
[19:30] » John.
>> Hi
[19:32] » Tanya.
>> Hi
[19:33] » Steve.
>> Hi
[19:34] » Seth.
>> Hi
[19:36] » AJ.
>> Hi
[19:37] » Ty Kerin.
>> Hi
[19:38] » and Kyle.
>> Hi.
[19:40] » Moving on to item 10. Review and
approval of pay request number nine for
[19:45] center avenue project from public works.
[19:53] I will say that
[19:58] the best news I've heard in months
very
[20:05] like I'm so here
like
[20:10] but they everybody's sympathetic and
things should be really quickly now. Um,
[20:16] nonetheless, uh, current payment due is
39,2641.
[20:23] And this pay request is got items all
over the place because as you can see,
[20:27] things are happening all over the place.
We're having some road stuff being
[20:31] built. We got a lot of curbing gutter
going on, but we're still
[20:40] also our store material. So, you always
see this this odd number in the corner
[20:46] here where we have
one which is actually material and then
[20:51] a deduction.
[21:12] » This is Todd. I move approval for pay
request number nine for the Center
[21:16] Avenue project for $39,264.71
[21:24] » motion and a second. Any further
discussion? Sarah, thank you for
[21:28] managing all those moving parts.
>> Oh, and I apologize. I just got to note
[21:33] that I did not press my button.
[21:37] » All right. Motion and a second. Roll
call, please.
[21:40] » Cindy,
>> I.
[21:42] » John. Hi
>> Tanya.
[21:44] » Hi
>> Steve.
[21:45] » Hi
>> Seth.
[21:47] » Hi
>> AJ.
[21:48] » Hi
>> Todd Kirky.
[21:49] » Hi
>> Kyle.
[21:51] » Hi
>> and Todd Spaith.
[21:52] » Hi.
[21:55] » Item 11, review and approval of change
order number nine, the Veroa Welcome
[22:00] Center. I can take that one.
>> Thank you Cindy.
[22:03] » Yep.
>> If you wondering.
[22:07] » Yes.
It's specific to an extension of time
[22:11] for the sake of final decisions on a
series of details for sake of
[22:15] completion. Amongst these are details of
a list of owner provided contractor to
[22:19] install items. In other words, we hadn't
ordered the bathroom fixtures yet.
[22:23] That's what that's about. So, we were
waiting to make sure that we had the
[22:28] funds and everything was, you know, in
line that way. So, now we will order
[22:32] them promptly. So, that that's big the
substantial completion date. We need to
[22:37] have the bathrooms ADA compliant. the
building ADA compliant. So that was the
[22:42] big hold up.
[22:49] » Yeah.
>> It's very exciting.
[22:52] » I'll make a motion that we approve the
change order number nine for the Veroko
[22:55] Welcome Center.
>> I'll second
[22:58] a motion and a second. All in favor? Do
we need a roll call and a change order
[23:02] for that? If it's not
>> There's no money involved in this. This
[23:05] is just changing so you don't hear.
>> Yeah. All in favor say I. I
[23:09] » any opposed? Motion carries. Moving on
to item 12, discussion with possible
[23:15] action on the revised agreement with
town and country for survey work from
[23:20] public works.
Okay, so you have all seen this before
[23:25] um previously.
What was different is this line here
[23:30] where it said the sanitary sewer survey
that I would be doing the survey work
[23:35] which would save us $6,000 which is
absolutely wonderful when I have the
[23:39] available time. Um but there's been a
few things coming forward that I'm
[23:44] really wanting to get this interceptor
study done sooner than later and I don't
[23:49] want to be the reason it's not getting
done because I have lots of other things
[23:52] to do. Um so I'll be doing surveying but
maybe for the park and not for the
[23:57] sewer. So um this is actually was
approved at public works and at that
[24:01] time the work was just being done that
day. So it's this is uh in retrospect
[24:05] here but the the contract amount is
going to go up by that 6,000. So that
[24:11] was this 23500.
[24:15] So
looking for approval to approve that
[24:20] even though it's
>> already
[24:22] » already done.
>> Okay. I make a motion we approve the
[24:27] town and country revised agreement for
survey work for was it?
[24:32] » It would be like an additional 6,000.
>> Additional 6,000
[24:35] » on that. Yeah.
>> I'll second that.
[24:37] » Motion by Cindy, second by Kyle. All in
favor? Actually, we need a roll call for
[24:43] that. Thank you, Lori.
>> John.
[24:47] » Hi,
>> Tanya.
[24:49] » Hi,
>> Steve.
[24:50] » Hi,
>> Seth.
[24:52] » Hi,
>> AJ.
[24:53] » Hi,
>> Ty Kirky.
[24:54] » Hi,
>> Kyle.
[24:55] » Hi,
>> Todd Spade.
[24:57] » Hi,
>> and Cindy.
[24:58] » Hi.
>> Item 13, discussion with possible action
[25:03] on old city hall site plan from public
safety.
[25:08] » Okay. Uh, I realized last week that I
did not do a good job, I think, of
[25:13] explaining how we got where we are,
where we are now. Um, so I don't think
[25:17] we need to go over the history of the
site, unless anybody wants us to. Um, I
[25:23] think we all are well aware of the old
city hall getting why it had to be torn
[25:28] down. We tried to RFB to get the
building fixed, but we got one person
[25:32] and we weren't comfortable or satisfied
that that would f solve the situation.
[25:38] So, as Todd Spaith uh mentioned last
week, we did took RFB out for the site
[25:43] and got no one. Um, when HPC designated
it as a local or request nominated to be
[25:50] designated as a local site, they
suggested it be a park because of the
[25:54] historic significance of it and because
it could be a gateway, an entrance to
[25:59] our historic downtown. So, that was what
happened there. um WEDC, Wisconsin
[26:05] Economic Development Corporation. They
uh gave us a landscape designer or
[26:11] architect to work with. I think he was
officially a landscape designer. I'm not
[26:16] sure. Um and we formed a design team
which you've seen all those names
[26:21] before. We had a wide variety. Library,
chamber, tourism, uh historical society.
[26:27] » It wasn't trick. You want me to
>> Yeah, that's Yeah, that's okay. Um so
[26:31] you saw that. I don't want to go over
every thing I didn't I covered. Um, and
[26:36] that gave us a good idea of things that
would work, wouldn't work, and kind of
[26:40] an idea of the budget. Then we got busy
with the U comp plan 2025 and pretty
[26:46] much took it to the end of the year.
Then we heard that Vibrant Spaces had
[26:51] money left over. And so in February of
2026, we put a preapp in for that
[26:58] vibrant spaces grant based on that old
concept plan. Uh Mark Tolman, the
[27:03] Lacrosse Regional Director of Wisconsin
Economic Development Corporation, uh got
[27:09] back to Nate and I and said that it's a
great location for it. Uh this is what
[27:14] the the kind of thing we're looking for,
but there are some things we need to see
[27:17] in order for it to qualify to get the
Vibrant spaces grant. And being that
[27:22] they're of the Wisconsin economic
development, they want to see something
[27:25] put there that's going to lead to more
economic development or lead help our
[27:31] economy, right? And the idea was that
this is a spot that can be the entrance,
[27:38] like I said, to our downtown. I wanted
to point out that safety is always a
[27:45] concern in our mind and the cost was
always a concern in our mind. As we met
[27:49] with our landscape architect, um we did
um
[27:55] interview three different architects for
the plan. They were people that had done
[27:59] park and wreck planning. So that's how
we happened to pick those three people
[28:02] that had been recommended by Kale. I
believe Kale had heard of them and knew
[28:06] of them. And Kale's going to chime in
when he feels need to. Um
[28:13] and then also Wisconsin Economic
Development Corporation does know
[28:17] Veroqua. I wanted to point that out and
they are very familiar with that corner
[28:23] and are interested in what goes on
there. So um we worked with Blake Thson
[28:30] I think that's how you pronounce it or
the now I can't remember which it was.
[28:34] Um if you want to go to Yeah. the site
the concept planned please. Well, I
[28:41] could I don't know if I need to go over
this again. Historic preservation. We
[28:44] wanted to point out historic site with
uh interpretive signs that can be
[28:49] changed so that it's not going to be the
same history forever. It's going to be
[28:53] other people can put artwork in or they
can put the historical society can put
[28:58] stuff in there. You know, it's a
library. It's we'll you know, it's
[29:02] open-ended. Um tourism because there'll
be wayfinding
[29:07] uh signage. uh Chad Burus recommend or
not recommend but mentioned to me that
[29:11] when they go to a town they often stop
at places like this kind of get a
[29:15] feeling for you know what's where should
I go from here kind of thing and this
[29:19] would point them to the welcome center
would point them to the library and and
[29:24] point them to our historic downtown of
course uh it would serve as a gateway to
[29:29] the historic downtown by some of the
things I'm going to uh mention and
[29:33] definitely is going to make the site
more beautiful than it is now
[29:36] beautifification
which definitely helps when they come
[29:40] into town and their first impression,
you know, would be something really
[29:43] attractive rather than this place that
kind of looks neglected.
[29:48] Um, and then the promotion again is
going to be promoting downtown
[29:52] businesses as I'm going to explain soon.
Uh, casual community gathering space,
[29:57] art, as I mentioned, lighting is the
Ballard lights, uh, picnic tables,
[30:02] walkways, shade. So, those are the kind
of things that they wanted to see. Also,
[30:07] um, as far as how is it going to help
the economy develop, they want to see,
[30:12] uh, programming, and I made the mistake
last week of talking about events, and
[30:16] you're conjuring up, you know, hundreds
of people, and that's not what this is
[30:20] about. This is about programs where a
business can come down there and we'd
[30:25] have to pick, you know, decide when is a
good day to do it, when it is a good
[30:29] time to do it, you know, when is the
that all things that can be decided. But
[30:33] they would be able to bring something
that they have that they sell or that
[30:37] they make. U Mark Tolman of WEDC
recommended Utopia. He said they could
[30:42] spin show us how they spin yarn or you
know because they do a lot of stuff and
[30:47] they could say and if you like this
there's a whole bunch more yarn up at
[30:50] our store. That's the idea is to get
people to go into the stores uptown. So
[30:55] that's how it would help the economy and
tourists of course we want to encourage
[30:59] tourists to stay the night. So that's
heads and beds kind of a thing. Um so
[31:05] that is I think that is the big thing.
So year round programming is what they
[31:09] want to see. There's no definite number
that I've seen that says you have to do
[31:13] so many. It's just that we have to make
the effort to do something to bring
[31:18] people to our downtown. It's part of it.
Um
[31:24] see gateway. See how things I mentioned
the plan itself. You could go to that
[31:30] now. Oh, you could also show the Well,
let's talk about this first. Um,
[31:35] yeah, I think that we talked the only
thing I think he changed the holiday
[31:39] tree. I don't I think it was AJ
suggested it be moved up farther so it
[31:45] would be more visible from all
directions. Um, Chad Burus recommended
[31:50] that the two shade trees on the east
end, uh, first we got to make sure
[31:55] they're in far enough so they're not any
kind of a visual problem. But also um
[32:00] our arborist Wyatt Oldm recommended
river birch, but river birch you can
[32:05] definitely see through and Chad thought
it might be better to have a tree that
[32:09] you can't see through so much like a
pine tree I mentioned at our last
[32:12] meeting or at the public safety where
you could have branches all the way to
[32:16] the ground. But these are things that
can be talked about, can be decided. Um,
[32:21] we're going to do the flower pots there
as another barrier. The burm three to
[32:27] three and a half feet high in the middle
and then it goes down with as aspen and
[32:31] that also would proide a barrier. Uh,
historic marker. I pictured the upper
[32:37] right one there to be Moses Decker.
Yeah. But it' be facing in so that
[32:42] people aren't trying to read it as you
drive by. You know, we're trying to
[32:46] think of all the safety measures we can.
Did you have anything you wanted to add,
[32:52] Kale?
>> No, I think you're spot on right now.
[32:56] » And we're taking people in. That's
another thing. These sidewalks take
[32:59] people in. They get them away from the
corner in the street and the business
[33:03] with the picnic tables in there and the
benches and things like that. Food
[33:08] truck, you know, they would have to make
a reservation and they could charge be
[33:12] charged to use it. It wouldn't be just
free for all.
[33:16] Um, does anybody have any questions
about things like that? Uh, like I said,
[33:22] safety and cost were what we were
definitely had in mind as we were doing
[33:26] this. What could we afford and what
would be safe at that spot?
[33:31] » Yeah, like Cindy had mentioned, I think
everybody's kind of thinking special
[33:36] events. This park is not special events.
This is more of a passive park with a
[33:43] few small um tables and probably um a
few um
[33:51] small events to get people to the main
street. So again, don't think of the
[33:55] great lawn as we're going to have a
concert there and pack everybody in on
[33:58] the great y lawn and listen to a
concert. That's not what we're going
[34:03] for. It's more passive with um small
tables that people can come up to.
[34:11] » But we do have to do the year- round
programming.
[34:13] » Yeah.
>> You know, that's important. That's
[34:14] something they want to see. But like I
said, there's small these are small
[34:18] events. We're not talking about big
event. I don't want to use the word
[34:21] event. Small.
>> One thing I just wanted to add to I was
[34:25] talking to Cindy. Um I just took a trip
around uh Michigan and all these small
[34:30] towns. um have a gathering space, lots
of them, right on their main drag. Um
[34:38] you know, just down south of Portage,
Wisconsin. Um I I actually had my wife
[34:44] take a picture. I'm like, "Take a
picture of that because that's what
[34:47] we're kind of going for." So, as you go
around, you see a lot more green space
[34:54] in their their communities to get people
there, stop, see what's going on, and
[35:00] get them into town. So, again, that's
what we're trying to do here.
[35:04] » Could you show them an Namin Fall
pictures? This was mentioned last week
[35:08] as a spot that's very similar to ours, a
very busy intersection. This is how it
[35:12] used to look. Well, it looks like
they're starting to work on it when this
[35:15] picture was taken. And then this is this
is different angle. I'm sorry I couldn't
[35:19] find one with the same angle, but it
gives you an idea of how nice a spot
[35:25] like that can look.
And it's very successful even though it
[35:29] is at a busy intersection. But like Kale
said, it's not the only example
[35:34] something like that.
Did anybody have any comments before we
[35:39] move on to the budget? Do you have
anything else?
[35:42] Okay. I'm sorry. Last week you got some
incorrect information that I didn't even
[35:46] realize you had. So, um, we we're going
to give you the correct stuff. This
[35:51] time, the updated that was old stuff
that we'd been working on.
[35:57] » Yes, please put the first one up.
>> This one here is the one, the correct
[36:02] one. Yes.
>> Yep.
[36:04] Here. What it shows is the owner soft
cost. We were lucky. The uh Verbecker
[36:09] did a top topographical topographical
topographical survey for only $850 and
[36:14] we thought it would be much more than
that. Architecture the uh our part
[36:20] architect is charging us 20,400
and he has been very good to work with.
[36:26] I think we all were very pleased with
how fast it all came together once we
[36:30] had you know met with him. Yeah. Can you
break down that 20,000 because I think
[36:36] um
>> now I don't remember how it's broken.
[36:38] » Well, I know that earlier in the
process, wasn't there like we paid for
[36:43] step by step? We haven't paid all of
that for what we see. Is that correct?
[36:47] Or is the 20
>> I'd have to look back
[36:50] » correct. We've only paid 8,000 for the
first if we went through the whole
[36:56] project with Blake, it would be 20,000,
but we would have to come back to
[37:00] council to get that approval. That was
at the first council meeting. So, we've
[37:07] only paid them 8,000 right now.
>> Okay. So, that I think I remember that
[37:11] number being to get to the final
drawings
[37:16] » through project management and bidding.
>> Thank you.
[37:21] Um construction costs, those are the
78,362.
[37:27] And then in order for us, you can see
down below TID 6, we um decided in our
[37:32] CIP, we approved 53,500
for the uh old city hall site and the
[37:40] vibrant spaces is worth 50,000.
So that brings us to 135.
[37:47] And you can see that there's a lot of
inind costs and what I and before you
[37:51] have a heart attack about the uh Oh,
that should not be there either. That I
[37:55] thought that I eliminated that. Yeah. Um
the 48,000
[38:00] a lot of that has to do give you Well,
we can go to the next page.
[38:04] » Yeah. Next page.
>> Yeah. Go to the inind donations.
[38:09] » Show you how that is because
these are numbers based on what it would
[38:14] cost a contractor to do these things. Um
and the city will be doing some of the
[38:19] in infrastructure
and then some of the site amenities
[38:24] and then the inind we're hoping to get
the public uh memorial benches, trees,
[38:30] uh the mural
uh and the shade structure. So again, I
[38:35] would say that the 145 is high for
putting that gray plastic thing around
[38:42] there and the de demolition of the
parking lot
[38:47] and uh some top soil and then the lawn,
the burm trees. Again, the trees are
[38:55] just listed at 400 because those are
things that will be added. So we have
[38:59] not do not had a definite figure on that
one. outcropping stones as we find as
[39:04] the city finds those big stones they can
put those on the burm uh picnic tables
[39:10] kale thought that they could come out of
park and wreck budget uh signage is
[39:15] split with the uh some of the money is
coming from the in the 78,000 figure and
[39:22] some is coming from the city planner
pods we already have you want to add
[39:27] anything to that
uh about the city stuff or Maybe Sarah,
[39:32] I don't know.
>> No, like I told Cindy, like we're we're
[39:36] currently trying to update some benches
and picnic tables throughout the other
[39:41] parks. So, as we do that, um there's
maybe opportunities that we get a picnic
[39:48] table for that park as we would for all
the other parks as well. So,
[39:54] » as far as the trees, I have at least
four people that have already come
[39:57] forward wanting to donate trees. So, uh
I remember our mayor J Justin wanted to
[40:03] donate trees and uh several other people
have come forward. So, I don't think
[40:08] this def and we like we said we do it as
we go but it'll be we have an arborist
[40:13] so we'll do it right. Um the mural
that's another thing that we can do then
[40:19] we want to be part of the mural walk but
again that doesn't have to be done right
[40:22] away.
So
[40:25] this is if you go back to the other ones
and really Yeah question.
[40:31] » So are those numbers labor costs or
>> the 145 and the 153 were numbers from
[40:39] the um our architect
for it be what the contractor what he
[40:44] estimated would cost charge
>> but the but it's in kind city cost. So
[40:48] is it inind city like so that's coming
out of somebody's budget.
[40:53] Um, so I'm curious or and is it
including labor or is it just for um
[41:00] what's the word I'm trying to come up
with the things?
[41:02] » Well, I think it's going to be less
number one. But
[41:06] » so
like demo of the parking lot is just us
[41:10] using our equipment and our our crew
that already exists, right? So it's not
[41:14] necessarily
the gas or something like that that we
[41:18] would spend on a typical day. the
erosion control. We would need to buy
[41:23] some of those materials, but it's not
14,500. So, she's she's taken that
[41:28] number out of the original architect's
like line items budget, right? So, for
[41:34] for the contractor to do it, it's
14,500, but for us, it's usually a
[41:40] fraction of that, right? Because we're
paying for
[41:43] » So, it's things that we already have.
So, we're not buying something and then
[41:46] it's labor. We would buy We don't have
to buy top soil, but we do have to buy
[41:50] that erosion control fencing, but I
mean, it's a fraction of that.
[41:55] » 14,000.
>> I understand that.
[41:56] » It's not going to cost us $8,000 to
demolish that the old parking lot and
[42:00] the
>> and the if we paid someone to do it, but
[42:04] yeah, in house, it's just work we're
doing.
[42:06] » Yeah, that's the kind of stuff.
>> And the site amenities. I heard Kale,
[42:10] you say you're you're buying new picnic
tables for other spots and you'd also
[42:14] buy them for this site or you're going
to move.
[42:17] » We could look to do that. Yes. As we
rotate
[42:21] » or maybe somebody would want to donate,
you know, money for picnic tables, too.
[42:26] » Yep. So, if we don't have donations,
where's the money coming from?
[42:30] » Well, that's what we don't have to do it
all at once. I don't think that
[42:33] » that doesn't answer my question. Is this
a park and racks budget item? Is this a
[42:37] public work item?
>> What What exactly are you talking about?
[42:43] » Because if we
>> Let me start over.
[42:48] » I don't care what the number is. It's
going to be something. We're going to
[42:52] spend some money. You're telling me
those numbers are a little high, but
[42:56] there's going to be a number there.
>> Where is that money coming from? Whose
[43:02] budget is it coming from?
Why is this a hard help me am I asking a
[43:08] question that doesn't make sense to
other people?
[43:10] » No, you're
>> Thank you.
[43:13] » Can I
have it set
[43:17] where it's coming and the 153 are what
are listed as estimates for contracted
[43:23] work that are being suggested could
actually happen inhouse from the city.
[43:29] So that's the top one. I think we all
got that you're saying. So what how do
[43:34] we get to the added up cost of what
those will cost?
[43:39] » Nope. Let me start over.
>> Okay.
[43:41] » Whose budget does any cost come out of?
Whose budget is paying for any cost that
[43:48] ends up being incurred?
>> It it looks to me like on that top
[43:51] infrastructure sess section would come
out of hers. What what materials they
[43:56] use and gas things like that. Picnic
tables would come it would come out of
[44:01] multiple departments. It looks like
>> picnic tables would come out of park and
[44:05] wreck.
>> So our wages and the gas and everything
[44:07] like that would come out of street and
we haven't had the conversation of who
[44:11] is actually buying the erosion control
fence. I don't know that yet that didn't
[44:16] have that conversation. I mean, we have
a budget meeting tomorrow
[44:20] and the next day and we will have to
allocate even if even if the total cost
[44:25] ends up being $5,000 or $10,000, it's
got to come from somewhere, right?
[44:31] » Yeah.
>> So,
[44:33] » it sounds like multiple.
>> If somebody wants money to pay for these
[44:37] things next year,
I would encourage you to tell me or Todd
[44:42] or any of the people on the budget
committee where you think that money is
[44:45] coming from. So, you're only talking
about the top two, right? Because the
[44:49] bottom ones is plain. We're talking
about
[44:51] » I'm talking about any any money that's
coming from the city. And we are just
[44:54] happen to be on this page right now. I
haven't gotten a solid answer for the
[44:59] » kind public would be coming from the
public.
[45:03] » And if we don't get those donations,
>> well, we
[45:07] » then we just won't do them. We will wait
till we get I don't think you'll have a
[45:11] problem getting the trees and the
memorial benches but and the mural can
[45:15] be put off the shade structure you know
right Tanya I agree with what you're
[45:23] saying because I'm on the budget team as
well that in order to make decisions for
[45:29] how we're allocating money for next year
we need more detail. Is that what you're
[45:35] asking?
Uh uh I have a hard time approving
[45:39] something that I don't understand how
we're paying for it. I'll be honest with
[45:42] you. So we could start with that
question.
[45:46] » Um
can we hold that question for for a
[45:50] moment? So
to zoom out a little bit, the design
[45:56] that we're seeing is a schematic design.
It's still only in the first phase of
[46:00] design and the estimated numbers are
based on what we're seeing there. So,
[46:07] um, when we approved to have this design
done, we said we were only going to go
[46:12] forward with the schematic design to get
to a place where we knew it would
[46:17] either maybe happen or not happen. And
that's where we're at today. Some of
[46:24] that was we had to have a design to get
approved or to actually apply to the
[46:29] grant, which now we know we have a
pre-approval waiting on an audit. that's
[46:35] almost done. Um that came from public
safety
[46:39] last one hour ago. Um
[46:47] so
the appro any action taken tonight is
[46:52] not to finalize a design or finalize the
acceptance of the whole project. I think
[46:58] it is to continue to the next step. But
I want Cindy to clarify that of what is
[47:07] the next step and what do we actually
need to walk away from so we have
[47:13] numbers for budget or next steps to get
those numbers.
[47:17] » Does that
>> Sure.
[47:19] » Yeah. It sounds like I need to meet with
Sarah and Kale and we can talk about
[47:23] these numbers. Um because in two weeks
we hope to have the resolution. the
[47:29] resolution has to be attached for the
application. So, does it have to exactly
[47:35] be the way it's on there once we turn
hand in the application? No. My
[47:39] understanding is does not, but it can't
be any major major changes either. It be
[47:44] my understanding. So, so I think I see
us closer than maybe you see us.
[47:51] » I think we're closer. I think we also
will probably end up needing to come
[47:55] back with a resolution
>> that you're suggesting and also the um
[48:02] next phase of design.
>> Excuse me, ma'am. No, please.
[48:05] » On the agenda because it was a
furthering of our public safety and all
[48:10] this was supposed to do was cover that
we went through the chief of police,
[48:15] went through the chief of fire. They
don't see any issues with this plan
[48:19] moving forward. And that's all this
agenda item was. It wasn't to talk
[48:24] budgets. It wasn't to do any of that. It
was to say that we approved it from
[48:28] public safety that everything looks to
move forward.
[48:32] » That's not my understanding. Thank you,
Seth. But my understanding is that
[48:36] whatever was the agenda item last week,
we were going to public safety get
[48:41] public safety concerns answered and then
it was coming back to us for that same
[48:45] line agenda item that was on the agenda
last week.
[48:49] » If that did not include talking about
the budget, then I don't know why we
[48:53] were talking about it today.
>> No, no, it it should have last week.
[48:57] I think it's all of those things that
the budget was on the um council packet
[49:03] last week, but we didn't
>> it had incorrect things in it
[49:06] » and we didn't get into that part of it
at the discussion last time because we
[49:11] also
sent it to public safety. That's what
[49:15] came out.
>> And yes, it did. Um Seth's comment of it
[49:21] coming back here tonight. I just looked
at the agenda item
[49:27] context to that too.
>> Well, I mean it was what we were
[49:31] » discussing as the concerns arose of
traffic and vehicles having an issue
[49:37] with
>> extra eyes on a spot and what the
[49:42] concern is with safety measures to
maintain separation. And through what we
[49:48] discussed in public safety, through what
both chiefs presented, we have to
[49:54] obviously take concerns about what trees
and what plants go in there. But there
[49:58] wasn't anything that come out of public
safety that said we need to stop this
[50:02] process. It's
all I had hoped we were covering, but I
[50:08] wasn't here last week either. So,
>> does anyone else from public safety want
[50:12] to add anything from their
comments or the meeting outcome?
[50:22] » Yeah, I'll just say so I, you know, I
was a loud voice last council meeting
[50:27] about concerns around safety in
particular for pedestrians and
[50:30] representing someone who has a family of
pedestrians. Um,
[50:36] I was impressed with how thoughtful both
chiefs were and listening to the
[50:41] concerns and how Cindy has laid back out
how safety has been a concern
[50:45] throughout. So, I will say that I voted
in favor of moving it back out of the
[50:50] public safety committee and back to this
body um, in great part because everyone
[50:55] was demonstrating thoughtfulness and
listening and concern and I would expect
[50:59] we would do the same as the project
unfolds. That's my summary. Yeah, there
[51:04] was also
uh comments made as the project unfolds.
[51:10] It's like we're not going to keep the
chiefs out of those decisions made.
[51:14] We're going to include them in whatever
changes. I think I understand also we
[51:20] didn't talk about budgets and public
safety, right? That we are now. And
[51:24] there you do have a line on here that
says expenses, revenue, and then you you
[51:27] say there's savings just below like move
that up a little bit.
[51:34] » It's on there. So,
right. But I guess what I'm saying is
[51:38] like if you're already accounting for
savings and you don't have money in hand
[51:42] from donations, it does raise questions
of where does the money come from?
[51:48] That's I I that's why I sit with Tanya
in this discussion because
[51:54] um
budgets are real and you can't just say
[51:58] oh it's going to be donated everything's
going to be donated because then like
[52:02] you said if it has to be a certain
uh design or we can't change it so much
[52:08] then we can't just delay the whole park
>> while getting the grant money right like
[52:14] we have to build
the park Right. So like it has to come
[52:20] from somewhere.
>> I don't think there's a timetable. I
[52:24] mean this is what we're planning on
doing. And I mean they know what the
[52:31] project is. They know the inind
you know
[52:36] » they being WEDC,
>> right? I just uh
[52:42] I don't know. I so I sit on the uh
playground committee and we have a
[52:47] mural, but it was not free, right? Like
we did account for that in our budgeting
[52:54] here. It's like you have it accounted
for as it's going to be a donation
[52:59] and I don't know that's you know what I
mean? Like it's hard to
[53:04] say.
>> You don't think that's a make or break
[53:06] thing for the
>> No, I'm not saying that either. I think
[53:09] we're just concerned that if you're
accounting for $40,000 being inind,
[53:16] it's hard to say yes, we're all for this
project knowing that we might be on the
[53:21] hook for an additional $40,000 and not
knowing where we're going to maybe get
[53:26] that money from is like I guess does
that make sense?
[53:28] » I don't think it'll be 40,000, but
>> sure. No, because of
[53:33] » I understand any additional monies still
need to be
[53:38] accounted for and that's I think all
that Tanya was trying to
[53:43] » if I don't want to start a park project
that we get halfway through we're not
[53:47] able to come up with the the um you know
the inind stuff and then but we still
[53:53] want to move forward or perhaps the
grant is requiring us to move forward
[53:57] and then we have to pay for it
somewhere. I think we'd also be remiss
[54:02] if by assuming that any of the stuff in
the inind city doesn't cost anything
[54:07] just because the city workers are doing
it. It's their time and labor that
[54:12] they're then not doing something else
for the city. So, it is costly. It's
[54:16] just not money. I've got to write a
check for today, right? But it's time
[54:23] and money and work that they that they
aren't doing something else. Um,
[54:29] » is there a way that we can give clear
direction on what we need next to make a
[54:35] an approval or a decision on
[54:40] » what was the next agenda item?
>> The so the end goal of this is to move
[54:45] towards the preapp or the application
now with WEDC when the audit is done. Is
[54:52] that correct?
>> But we still need the resolution.
[54:55] » Correct. So the resolution is coming on
the next agenda the second week of
[55:01] September.
Is there something else we also need to
[55:08] have in a packet
to get to an approval for that
[55:16] or to inform or answer some of the
questions?
[55:23] Um,
>> do you want to see a full budget?
[55:27] » Yeah, I think that would help.
>> Do you want to see those costs allocated
[55:33] by department or estimated by department
or
[55:36] » wasn't that a part of the $8,000 we
approved was to get architecture to
[55:43] create a bid plan to so that we could
get to the point of bidding so that we
[55:47] had an end goal. Well, if we're still in
that early point, then I think
[55:51] » No, we have
>> Okay. Well, then then we have to
[55:55] probably be able to review that to make
choices moving forward off that, I would
[56:00] say.
>> Is that something that we can get to for
[56:06] the next meeting to see the costs
breakdown of that plan?
[56:12] Do we want to see it phased or do we
want to see it as a whole?
[56:18] or both.
>> I Yeah, I would answer that with a
[56:21] question which is we we brought up here
is how does WEDC define the park being
[56:26] done so that we can then receive that
grant money. So whatever
[56:31] » it's a good point
>> pieces of the budget get us to that
[56:34] » definition of done if you will.
>> I will say these WEDC grants are
[56:38] reimburseable. So you have to pay for
that stuff upfront and then get
[56:43] reimbursed. So you have to be able to go
far enough into your project with those
[56:48] inind
parts on those statement of expenditures
[56:52] in order to get reimbursed. So there are
upfront costs. I'm just letting you know
[56:56] that you need to know in this budget
going into it.
[57:00] » Um well I I know you know vibrant spaces
grants but I know when I hand in the
[57:05] application they don't want the inind
stuff listed. They just want the budget,
[57:09] the construction costs, and
>> you still have to come up with the
[57:12] $50,000,
which is all construction costs, right?
[57:17] Yeah.
>> Yeah. You have to show expenditures and
[57:20] and some of that stuff when you're doing
>> in order to get the money,
[57:25] » you have to show that. And that's all
part of that has to be done first. And
[57:29] if that's not if you're going to do it
in phases, you're not going to get the
[57:32] money all up front and then be able to
finish it in phases. I'm just telling
[57:36] you that that's how these grants work.
You have to have it paid for and then
[57:40] get reimbursed. So, just keep that all
in mind when you're looking at this as
[57:45] well.
>> Sarah and Kale and Cindy, is this
[57:49] something that over the next weeks ahead
of the next council, this could be
[57:53] worked on to bring on the next agenda?
So, with regards to the stuff the public
[58:00] works is doing, um, I can try to figure
out like how much the silt fence costs.
[58:06] I do hesitate a little bit about like
our time and equipment, which I can
[58:11] certainly put in, but you brought up the
park project. I think you'd be surprised
[58:15] how much public works is split. And we
do that all the time. Public works works
[58:20] for everybody at some capacity at some
point. And so just to be fair to all
[58:26] departments, we don't necessarily like
parse out the oil change amount that
[58:30] like we did work on the police cruiser
or the you know, so I just I don't want
[58:35] to get too much in the weeds with that.
>> I'm not asking for that,
[58:39] » but I'm happy to look at like, okay,
what would have to come out of our
[58:42] budget that we wouldn't normally have
like silk fence for example?
[58:46] » Anything you're Yeah, the erosion I can
do that.
[58:52] This is also coming at a time when we're
scrutinizing our budget, so it's top of
[58:56] mind. Um,
but I think if we can get to having a
[59:01] full budget to review and approve or
review and discuss
[59:07] um with the resolution
and then we'll have an update on the
[59:14] audit. Is that kind of where
it
[59:18] » I'm like maybe two days away from
getting that part approved. So that part
[59:21] is not
>> Okay.
[59:22] » What happened with that is that they
won't even allow us to apply for this
[59:26] grant because the the audit was holding
it up. Then they got the audit and they
[59:31] didn't like the wording within the
audit. So I'm trying to work with our
[59:34] auditors to get some side notes in
there. And I think I'm this close to
[59:40] getting it being okay. So that part
won't be an issue. I think that we need
[59:45] to leave out the inkind
uh donations and and work um unless
[59:53] they've already been committed unless
somebody's already committed to the
[59:57] trees. Um but the the shade structure
and and
[1:00:02] uh the mural and things like that,
there's not 100% certainty that, you
[1:00:08] know, we're going to get that donation.
>> So, I think they have to be left out
[1:00:12] too, don't they? I think it goes again
to what do we need to accomplish with
[1:00:16] this park space to fulfill the $50,000
grant money and
[1:00:23] » can we as a city accomplish that and do
we like what we accomplish before
[1:00:29] » that gets
received.
[1:00:36] » I hear Seth saying he wants to move this
along.
[1:00:40] » Seth, do you have a motion?
Well, I don't think that grant hinges
[1:00:44] upon a shade structure or a mural,
[1:00:49] » right?
>> Well, and again,
[1:00:52] » Huh.
>> That's a good point,
[1:00:54] » right? But I mean,
>> I maybe didn't understand and and
[1:00:58] » the agenda item was because from what it
looks like on our agenda, y
[1:01:04] » I would like to make a motion to move
forward with our
[1:01:10] part
plan. Is it green spaces? What are we
[1:01:14] calling it again?
>> Broke green.
[1:01:15] » Broke green. Not official
on account of approval from public
[1:01:21] safety.
[1:01:25] That muddied. I'm just That's what we're
covering tonight for this space. And
[1:01:35] » it's got a motion.
>> I'll second it
[1:01:38] » and a second by Todd.
any further discussion.
[1:01:44] » If we need to talk about when we're
being presented the actual budget of
[1:01:49] this, then that would just need to be
another agenda item, but to get us
[1:01:55] through what the agenda was for tonight.
So,
[1:01:59] that discussion has to happen.
>> Where's that admin when you need him?
[1:02:07] » I will say I wasn't at the last one
either. However, public safety really
[1:02:11] shouldn't have been put on this agenda
the way it was listed. It was just that
[1:02:16] it went to city council last week. It
was forwarded to public safety for those
[1:02:20] concerns and come back. So, it
technically is the exact same as what it
[1:02:24] was the last council. Public safety
should not have been listed on here. So,
[1:02:28] that is an error. I just wanted to make
sure that you're
[1:02:31] » Lauri was out last week.
>> I was at my clerk's conference. So, I
[1:02:34] wasn't if if I would have been asked, I
would have said don't put that on there.
[1:02:37] But I'm just letting you know that if
you wanted to change your motion, say
[1:02:40] and it's because of what came out of
public safety, that may not be actually
[1:02:44] what your intention should be in that
motion. I'm not trying to change your
[1:02:48] mind.
>> Should it be contingent upon a final
[1:02:52] budget approval?
>> That's what, however you guys want to
[1:02:55] put it. It just doesn't need to be
attached to public safety.
[1:02:58] » I'm probably not the one to be doing the
motion because I wasn't here last week
[1:03:02] that started this conversation that got
us to this point. So, I don't know what
[1:03:05] we were trying to accomplish in the end
here.
[1:03:08] » Do we need any further
approvals to move to the next phase on
[1:03:14] this that would need to come to council
next week to be presented to get this
[1:03:18] project continuing forward? Is there
anything like I'm hearing we need a full
[1:03:24] budget breakdown that shows all in all
all things together?
[1:03:30] We could have a side breakdown that
shows what's possible to be in kind, but
[1:03:34] we still need to see where everything
falls within department budgets to plan
[1:03:40] for and that if that comes next week
or sorry to the next council agenda that
[1:03:48] in addition to the resolution,
[1:03:52] what is the next step for this project?
because we're only at the first phase of
[1:03:59] design, right? The first 8,000. So, once
it's approved, then what do we need to
[1:04:05] do next?
>> Well, we we need the resolution and then
[1:04:10] we hand in the application. Okay. And we
wait to hear back. And I know that they
[1:04:14] don't want any inkind information on
that application. So, I'm puzzled by
[1:04:18] what you're saying.
>> My my my point of all of that wasn't
[1:04:22] what goes into the application. My point
is is when you get the money and we were
[1:04:27] talking about budgets and how are we
going to pay for this, the fact that you
[1:04:32] have to pay for it and get reimbursed,
those items need to be thought through
[1:04:37] as to where those funds will be coming
from. That was the point of what I was
[1:04:41] trying to make on that. I thought that
this that we approved
[1:04:46] $50ome thousand dollar from the city
back when we decided to turn that into a
[1:04:52] green space from the table.
>> So is it there? Okay. So was it 50?
[1:04:57] » That's on their um line number 16.
>> Wait. Okay, there it is. Yep. I'm sorry.
[1:05:02] I think some of the confusion comes in
is that the grant is because I've been
[1:05:06] helping Cindy try to get the application
in is that they don't want to see in
[1:05:09] kind donations because it doesn't need
to be that match like our match only has
[1:05:15] to be it can cover up to 75%. And so our
match of TID money of 53,500
[1:05:22] meets that match. And then Loriy's
talking about something we're we're kind
[1:05:26] of having three different conversations.
Um you're absolutely right. We right, we
[1:05:31] get into that all the time. We need to
make sure that we have our match or
[1:05:35] their match covered until they reimburse
us. So that's like another element that
[1:05:39] we have to make sure our cash flow is
working. And then in order to do the
[1:05:43] whole project of that 151,000, we have
those inkind donations that make up that
[1:05:49] remaining amount. So this is a very
challenging conversation, but I think
[1:05:53] everybody's right in some way. And it
for budget purposes, we want to see if
[1:05:59] those donations don't actually get made,
are we paying for them and out of what
[1:06:04] department?
>> Or we just don't
[1:06:06] » or they get eliminated, right? Yeah.
>> So that's where I was using the word
[1:06:10] phased, right? Like maybe those get
phased over time or it's an inkind
[1:06:15] donation
or it's another grant in the future for
[1:06:19] picnic tables or for that. It comes
together as the plan over time, but
[1:06:25] maybe not right all at the first build.
Does that
[1:06:31] » I don't know if a vibrant spaces grant
would work like that.
[1:06:34] » Kyle, you brought up you. Yeah, go
ahead.
[1:06:37] » Can you get as much clarification on the
grant
[1:06:41] » and then present that to us?
>> Well, I'm see I think we're there now.
[1:06:45] We've got way more than we have more
than 50% match and they only require 25.
[1:06:53] » Sure. But if you're saying that the
grant needs the plan like this plan
[1:06:56] can't be deviated from in a wide sense,
then it we're already locked into this.
[1:07:03] You know what I'm saying? Like it
doesn't we can't parse it down.
[1:07:08] » Does that make sense?
>> We certainly need to clarify what
[1:07:10] qualifies us as complete by the side.
>> Thank you. Do we need to add that to a
[1:07:15] motion?
>> Uh, I think we need to start off.
[1:07:18] » There's already a motion on the table.
We have to deal with
[1:07:20] » amend the motion.
>> The motion on the table was basically to
[1:07:23] move forward with the Veroa Green
project and you had
[1:07:27] » as proposed by public safety which are
you wanting to remove that piece is what
[1:07:31] I'm asking.
>> Remove public safety if that was not
[1:07:34] supposed to be part of your second and
then you need to vote on this one and I
[1:07:37] I if you're approving this and there's
money involved, we need to do a roll
[1:07:41] call. So, are we ready for the
Roll call on this.
[1:07:46] » I just want to say one last thing. I
promise it'll be quick because I asked
[1:07:50] one question about the budget and then
chaos ensued.
[1:07:54] Um that was not my intent. I just wanted
some clarity. Um I am going to be voting
[1:08:00] no to this project. Has nothing to do
with the budget. I just wanted that to
[1:08:04] be clear because I I'm going to get a
lot of kickback
[1:08:08] and I just I I'm opposing it because of
the project scope. I just want to be
[1:08:12] clear about that to the public.
>> All right. So, we have a motion and a
[1:08:19] second by Todd
>> Herking.
[1:08:24] » Can we Can you clarify what my current
motion is?
[1:08:29] » Motion by S, second by Todd to move
forward with the Veroa Green project.
[1:08:34] That was the end. If you're taking out
that Okay.
[1:08:37] » All right. Then we will take a roll
call. Tanya,
[1:08:41] » no.
>> Steve,
[1:08:45] » hi.
>> Seth,
[1:08:48] » hi
>> AJ.
[1:08:50] » Hi.
>> Todd Kirking.
[1:08:51] » Hi,
>> Kyle.
[1:08:53] » I
>> Todd Spaith.
[1:08:55] » Hi,
>> Cindy.
[1:08:56] » Hi,
>> and John.
[1:08:57] » Hi.
>> Motion carries.
[1:09:02] » Way less complicated, but public school.
[1:09:07] » What she said.
>> Okay. So,
[1:09:11] Before we move on to item 14, I want to
call attention to item 15, which is the
[1:09:16] second period for public comment. There
is a Thank you. Um,
[1:09:24] so there are two people currently signed
up to make public comment on item 14.
[1:09:30] We're going to start with the
presentation and then open it up for
[1:09:34] public comment. Each person will have
three minutes to talk on this. Does
[1:09:39] anybody else want to add to this list?
And if not at this time, that's fine. If
[1:09:47] you want to come up, um, what I'll do is
I'll call from the top of the list down
[1:09:51] and then when we get to the end of it,
if anybody else would like to start
[1:09:55] commenting,
um, we'll just come to the podium in
[1:10:00] line. So, item 14, presentation on
public school tax bill transparency.
[1:10:08] Christina Reer James is here. Uh some
background on this. Christina emailed uh
[1:10:13] me as the mayor and said that she has
been doing advocacy work on this. I
[1:10:19] remember her being at the empowering
education event that was held in West
[1:10:24] about a year ago. with some of this on
the presentation agenda. Um,
[1:10:32] I want to set some expectations that we
are not here to have debate about where
[1:10:39] money is going or what things that the
city cannot control. We are here to talk
[1:10:46] about the decision of what the city
could do and how. Right? So, if the city
[1:10:54] council hears and decides there's
something that they want to do, then
[1:10:59] there's the how do we actually do it?
Um, so the conversations about what
[1:11:04] budget it comes out of and who does the
work um would then be discussed
[1:11:10] and that is the intention of this. There
are some additional community members in
[1:11:16] the room tonight from the public school,
also from the county because uh along
[1:11:22] with the city, the county, the public
school, the DPI, there are a lot of
[1:11:25] people involved in how this transparency
of where public dollars go gets to your
[1:11:32] tax bill. So, with all that in mind, I'm
going to um invite Christina Racer James
[1:11:37] to start her presentation.
[1:11:43] Um, hello. My name is Christina Reer
James and I'm not a big public speaker,
[1:11:47] so I've written this, so I'm just going
to read it to you guys. Um, I'm here
[1:11:51] today as a concerned community member.
I'm a resident of Vernon County and a
[1:11:55] graduate of Kikapoo High School. In the
past few years, I've become a strong
[1:11:58] advocate for an accidental advocate for
public education. I stand before you
[1:12:03] today on my own accord representing only
myself, no school district or no other
[1:12:08] organization.
I want to bring attention to an issue
[1:12:11] regarding our property tax bills that
has bothered me for some time and I
[1:12:15] would like to bring forward a possible
solution.
[1:12:18] When I reached out to the mayor to ask
if I could address the council, I did
[1:12:22] not know that the Veroa area schools was
going to announce an operational
[1:12:25] referendum. I want to make it clear that
to everyone that I am not addressing you
[1:12:31] on that I am addressing you on a
completely separate issue. This has
[1:12:35] nothing to do with the school's work to
educate the public on their referendum
[1:12:38] and I apologize if I have made a complex
situation even more complicated.
[1:12:44] I'm here today to address only one
topic, transparency on our tax bills. My
[1:12:49] issue is that the public money funding
tuition for private voucher schools is
[1:12:54] included in the public education portion
of our property tax bills. I believe
[1:13:00] this is misrepresenting where our tax
dollars are actually going.
[1:13:06] Legislation
um to require separating the aid
[1:13:11] reduction caused by education vouchers
from the public education portion on the
[1:13:16] property tax bills has been introduced
in the state legislature for the past
[1:13:21] decade, but it has never even received a
public hearing. This is why I feel it's
[1:13:26] incumbent on us to take action at a
local level. We can no longer wait for
[1:13:31] them to legislate. We have the ability
to tackle this here on our own.
[1:13:38] Because the voucher programs were
expanded statewide under the budgeting
[1:13:42] process and were not voted on by the
public, many community members are
[1:13:45] unaware that there are currently four
taxpayer-funded private school tuition
[1:13:51] voucher programs here in Wisconsin. The
original program, the Milwaukee Parental
[1:13:55] Choice Program, is funded off the top of
the general purpose reserve. The other
[1:14:00] three programs, the rine parental choice
program and the statewide Wisconsin
[1:14:05] parental choice program and the special
the special needs scholarship program
[1:14:10] are all funded through state aid
reduction deductions that reduce local
[1:14:16] public school district revenues.
The two programs that affect our area
[1:14:22] schools and most rural schools are the
Wisconsin parental choice program and
[1:14:27] the special needs scholarship program.
The current 2025
[1:14:33] and 20 through 27 state budget which
allocates state funding for public
[1:14:39] education gave zero new general aid to
our public schools for the next two
[1:14:44] years.
The same budget did increase the voucher
[1:14:48] payments for private schools, which in
turn did increase the amount of tax
[1:14:52] dollars going to private schools.
Although I have always found this issue
[1:14:56] to be of transparency troubling, what
spurred me into action at this time is
[1:15:00] the fact that since 2017 when the
voucher program was expanded statewide,
[1:15:05] there has been an enrollment cap
limiting the percentage of students in
[1:15:09] the district that could participate in
the voucher program.
[1:15:13] This coming year, this coming school
year, the caps fall off. There will be
[1:15:18] no limit to the number of vouchers per
district. I feel it is more important
[1:15:22] than ever to give tra property taxpayers
a more honest understanding of where
[1:15:27] their tax tax dollars are going.
Local property taxes have been funding
[1:15:32] the statemandated private school voucher
programs for years, but this cost has
[1:15:37] been inaccurately
bundled into the single education line
[1:15:42] item. Even though the public schools
have no control over the use or use use
[1:15:47] or account accountability of those
funds, by separating out the amount
[1:15:52] levied for the voucher programs,
property owners would be able to
[1:15:57] understand what portion of their tax
dollars do not actually go to their
[1:16:01] public school. Depending on the location
of the voucher school, your tax dollars
[1:16:06] could be leaving the district entirely
to support private schools in other
[1:16:10] communities across the state. Last
spring on April 15, 2025,
[1:16:17] last year in April 2025, um the Green
Bay City Council voted to support adding
[1:16:23] a line under the note port section of
the tax bill. The note reads, "Of the
[1:16:29] amount levied by the Green Bay Area
public schools, X amount of dollars is
[1:16:35] for the purpose of private school
vouchers. This was an effort for clarity
[1:16:40] and transparency.
Since then, other Wisconsin cities have
[1:16:44] taken similar action to address this
issue, either through a line on the tax
[1:16:49] bill or through inserts included in the
tax bill envelope. These cities include
[1:16:55] Milwaukee, South Milwaukee, Racine,
Oaklair, Shbboan, Bay View, Westburn,
[1:17:00] and Ashland.
Wisconsin public schools educate over
[1:17:04] 800,000 children each year. the public
schools are held to a strict standards
[1:17:09] regarding mandates, transparency, and
accountability. I believe the taxpayers
[1:17:13] deserve transparency regarding what
amount is being diverted away from our
[1:17:18] public schools. I am not here today to
support or oppose educ education voucher
[1:17:23] programs, but rather to ask that we all
do what we can to provide transparency
[1:17:28] for the general public.
In in order to begin this process, I ask
[1:17:34] that the Veroa City Council consider
following the example of Green Bay and
[1:17:39] pass a transparency resolution.
You could use this resolution
[1:17:46] to direct staff to work with the Veroqua
Area School District to follow the
[1:17:50] example of the growing list of Wisconsin
cities and municipalities that are that
[1:17:55] are providing more transparency for the
general public.
[1:18:00] Um, we do not have to reinvent the
wheel. We can be guided by the
[1:18:04] blueprints used by these other
communities.
[1:18:07] I want to thank the city council for
allowing me to speak. I chose to address
[1:18:11] Veroa City Council first as the county
seat in the largest school district in
[1:18:16] Vernon County. I do intend to share this
information with other cities and
[1:18:19] municipalities.
Um, members of the council as well as
[1:18:23] interested community members are welcome
to reach out to me for additional
[1:18:27] conversations.
Thank you.
[1:18:31] Thank you, Christina.
[1:18:35] Um,
[1:18:39] so at this time
[1:18:44] we're going to Christina's going to
stay, but we're going to open up um
[1:18:49] public comment, the second period for
public comment.
[1:18:53] And
[1:18:57] during so with this in mind that during
the item 16 discussion with possible
[1:19:02] action towards a tax bill transparency
resolution that portion will be a
[1:19:08] discussion by council
in collaboration with questions or
[1:19:16] any kind of input that might need to
come for education of council in this
[1:19:22] decision from the public school
um or the county. I believe the
[1:19:28] treasurer may be online
um at this time and Lori
[1:19:36] as city clerk. So
>> may I make a suggestion?
[1:19:39] » Yeah. Y
>> I just wondered if Christina could talk
[1:19:42] about this because this is very
important. She could just talk about
[1:19:45] that line.
>> Do you have a spec about that specific
[1:19:49] line? Yeah, Roa, just talk about how
exactly are you talking this is
[1:19:53] affecting.
>> Okay, so these are the numbers um the
[1:19:56] aid reduction from each school district.
I just chose these because they're area
[1:19:59] schools and the biggest point of this is
the increasing amount and Baroco went
[1:20:05] over a million dollars. Um, I just think
people should understand where that
[1:20:09] money is going because it is separate
to, you know, the the money that's going
[1:20:14] to our public schools and it has always
been identified as in one line and I I
[1:20:19] don't understand why we can't separate
that out.
[1:20:23] » Thank you.
>> I would even ask that you go one step
[1:20:28] further and explain what aid reduction
means. Does that mean that's that less
[1:20:35] money going to our public schools
because Okay, I just wanted to make sure
[1:20:40] everybody was on the same page.
>> Thank you, Seth.
[1:20:44] » Yep.
[1:20:47] » Um, yeah, let's let's talk more on that
when we open the discussion and let's
[1:20:55] come Yep. No, that's valid. I mean, I I
I'd be happy to answer, but I just feel
[1:20:59] like if there's somebody who knows more
than I do, then they should probably be
[1:21:01] talking.
>> So, we'll move on.
[1:21:03] » We move on to public comment. We can't
actually dialogue with the people
[1:21:08] speaking. So, I think it's okay to ask.
>> Is that why you're here, Chris?
[1:21:13] » Yeah. To to answer that question before
public comment.
[1:21:16] » Do you feel comfortable answering that?
Okay. Do you want to come up to the
[1:21:19] microphone so anybody that's listening
online can hear? Um, so Seth, do you
[1:21:24] want to re ask your question just for
clarity? And then
[1:21:28] » I was simply from a wide openen
perspective
[1:21:34] wanting the explanation of aid reduction
and what that term means in terms of
[1:21:42] what's getting pulled from public
schools.
[1:21:45] » Sure. Uh, we we refer to this as our
voucher number, if you will. So, uh, it
[1:21:51] it's the amount that the DPI bills the
school district every year for
[1:21:59] private school vouchers.
>> So, it's not necessarily money they're
[1:22:03] taking away from you. It's money that
you have to pay as a school district to
[1:22:07] support the vouchers
>> overall. You you could look at it that
[1:22:12] way. I mean, I could get into I could
get into the weeds on a whole lot of
[1:22:15] things. Um,
>> meaning and I don't necessarily want to
[1:22:18] do that. um here uh I want to be able to
answer questions and those kind of
[1:22:23] things, but um it it is it that number
comes out of our June 8 aid payment. Um
[1:22:30] you know, there are things we can do
with our levy um and the revenue limit
[1:22:34] that allow us to be able to offset that
cost though.
[1:22:38] » Can you state your job?
>> I am the director of business services
[1:22:43] for Roary Schools.
>> And your name? Sorry. Go ahead.
[1:22:48] Um, for the the purposes of our
deliberation and discussion tonight on
[1:22:55] the tax bill says public school and a
number,
[1:23:00] what happens
[1:23:04] with this number in your world that
would help inform a city council
[1:23:11] decision to help with transparency?
Does this get subtracted from that? Is
[1:23:17] that that simple?
>> We we've got we've got different levies.
[1:23:24] We've got our operating levy. This is
part of our operating levy. We've got a
[1:23:27] debt service levy. We have a community
service levy as well. Um the reduction
[1:23:35] th this number is born out of um I guess
our operating levy is born out of our
[1:23:41] revenue limit. uh that is set by the
state. Uh there's a per pupil amount and
[1:23:49] it fluctuates based off of enrollment.
The as you kind of work down the uh the
[1:23:57] the revenue limit worksheet, it uh does
then remove um this dollar figure from
[1:24:04] the money that's coming to the school
district. Every district in the state
[1:24:09] also has the ability to be able to claim
a revenue limit exemption
[1:24:14] for this number.
So in essence and and and most do the
[1:24:21] the district could not afford to cover
this by itself. So essentially by
[1:24:25] claiming that exemption we are the the
that dollar figure is passed directly to
[1:24:32] the taxpayer.
[1:24:38] Appreciate the clarification.
>> Can I ask a question?
[1:24:42] » Is it is it similar to like if like we
collect property tax the levy for the
[1:24:48] city and then we had to write a million
dollar check to back to the state to you
[1:24:55] to distribute to other municipalities
[1:25:00] » potentially. I think it depends on when
you look at how much you can levy
[1:25:06] because that that's specifically
controlled on our end. I I don't I don't
[1:25:11] know the levy the levy side of um it for
the the municipality. um you know so
[1:25:19] it it it it has a significant impact.
The the the place where it becomes more
[1:25:25] challenging especially in the
environment that we're in right now is
[1:25:28] that when we're going and we're you know
we we see no new general aid. Um
[1:25:34] expenses increase. We don't get regular
inflationary increases to our revenue
[1:25:39] limit and heaven for decades. Um, and
you see the inflation that we've seen
[1:25:44] over the last number of years, things
become more expensive. We don't get more
[1:25:48] money. That squeezes budgets. That
results in us having to go to an
[1:25:53] operational referendum to be able to ask
our taxpayers to exceed our revenue
[1:25:58] limit.
This comes as part of the conversation
[1:26:02] when we're talking about our mill rate.
Um, this is an additional cost for
[1:26:06] education that taxpayers have to pay.
um you know so when we're communicating
[1:26:13] our mill rate in those conver in those
conversations that we have about
[1:26:17] operational referendums
this is part of that number. Um you know
[1:26:22] so when we're you know when someone's
looking at their tax bill and they're
[1:26:26] and they're and they're trying to
determine how much the school district
[1:26:30] is actually you know getting from them.
Um right now this number is part of
[1:26:36] that.
[1:26:41] Does anybody have more questions before
we go to public comment?
[1:26:46] Did you want to add anything on that?
No.
[1:26:51] » Thank you, Chris.
>> Thank you.
[1:26:53] » Okay. So, we will move to item 15, the
second period for public comment. Um,
[1:27:00] I've got two people on the list and once
we go through those two, if anybody else
[1:27:04] wants to come forward in person or
online, I will invite you to do it at
[1:27:10] that time. So, we'll begin with Kim
Little.
[1:27:16] Kim, can you state your name and address
and then you'll have three minutes for
[1:27:20] public comment?
>> Kim Little, 425 Chicago Avenue. I've
[1:27:24] been here about many things before, but
um I
[1:27:29] do want to say I'm not representing the
Veroa school board. I am a member of the
[1:27:33] Veroa school board, but I am not
representing the school board. I'm just
[1:27:36] representing myself. I myself went to um
12 years of private education for which
[1:27:45] my parents and myself we paid for that.
So that I'm not opposed to private
[1:27:50] education in any way, shape or form. I
think the question this brings is the
[1:27:56] transparency so people understand and as
you discussed earlier you were talking
[1:28:02] about you're applying for these grants
where these where these money is coming
[1:28:05] from that is a transparency thing you're
trying to understand and see what's out
[1:28:10] there and yes it does make a difference
for us that as a school system a million
[1:28:17] dollars goes out and I will say you know
people just need to understand the
[1:28:22] difference because you know what Tanya
brought up a thing but you talked about
[1:28:27] going to other government agencies in
essence with that money not to private
[1:28:32] agencies which I think that's that's a
difference that people need to
[1:28:36] understand and they need to understand
that public school educates everybody if
[1:28:42] you appear at the door you get an
education have to meet their needs no
[1:28:47] matter what they are and everything
private schools do not have to they can
[1:28:51] say, "We don't want to deal with you
anymore." As a matter of fact, they can
[1:28:54] enroll you and two weeks later they can
say, "We're not going to enroll you."
[1:28:59] And they come back to the public school,
but the third Friday counts already, so
[1:29:02] we've already missed a half a year of
state aid. So, I think really budgets
[1:29:07] are very complicated as you kind of were
indicating even in your discussion about
[1:29:12] the the the park or whatever you the
green space, you know, having that
[1:29:17] transparency. This is really about
transparency. It doesn't change where
[1:29:23] the money goes. It's just so the public
understands that a million dollars of
[1:29:28] your tax money goes to private schools.
That's really what it's about. I if it's
[1:29:34] complicated to do and everything else, I
don't know the ins and outs. I'm sure
[1:29:39] Lori's thinking, "Oh, now I got to
figure this out and put it on the bill
[1:29:42] and everything." But I I would encourage
you to do that. Thank you.
[1:29:48] » Thank you, Kim. Matthew Vos,
you state your name and your address in
[1:29:55] three minutes.
>> Uh, my name is Matt Vos, uh, 815 Chicago
[1:29:58] Avenue. I'm also, well, I have I have
had five children go to, I think, every
[1:30:04] form of public and private school in
this entire community.
[1:30:08] Um, I'm also the administrator of Youth
Initiative High School, which has been a
[1:30:12] private high school here, uh, since
1996.
[1:30:16] Um I guess basic thing I want known is
that uh you know we are not a voucher
[1:30:22] school. So if uh there's ever any
problems with vouchers that you have
[1:30:26] lose my number. Um
but I will say that you know I think in
[1:30:33] terms of uh transparency I have never
I've always voted against um every
[1:30:39] public education referendum that has
ever been put up um recent and that's
[1:30:45] because I have felt that the public
school um yeah has has not always
[1:30:50] represented the whole public.
My views on that have changed pretty
[1:30:55] dramatically. Um, I think I will
definitely be voting for this
[1:30:58] referendum. Um, because the public
school has become, I think, more
[1:31:03] transparent about what they're doing and
more cooperative with working with the
[1:31:07] entire community. I think it's important
to remember that these, you know, this
[1:31:11] money is going, this is not just flying
to some, you know, these voucher schools
[1:31:16] are heavily regulated. Um, they are
accountable to state standards in many
[1:31:22] of the same ways that public schools
are. Um,
[1:31:26] you know, I think if you want to take
transparency all the like are are you if
[1:31:30] if someone wants to pay if the school
system wants to pay a million dollars
[1:31:34] for a new athletic field, is that going
to go on the tax bill? Not everyone's
[1:31:37] going to agree with that. Um, in fact,
that's why I didn't vote for the last
[1:31:42] referendum. But, um, the I think taking
a wider view is really important here.
[1:31:49] the these schools in this community um
have been an engine for economic growth
[1:31:56] for an expansion of tax base and economy
generally. I mean I know I can look at
[1:32:04] dozens of people um in this room who
made the decision to move here to buy a
[1:32:10] house here um in whole or in part based
on the educational choices they have in
[1:32:16] this community. So, um I guess it
doesn't putting just the private tax or
[1:32:23] the private um payout to the voucher
program on the tax bill doesn't feel
[1:32:27] like transparency to me. That that feels
like targeted transparency. Um and if
[1:32:32] you want to do full transparency,
put the whole, you know, put the entire
[1:32:36] school's budget in the envelope. Um and
and people are going to have they're
[1:32:41] going to pick and choose what they like
and what they don't like. But part of
[1:32:44] living in a, you know, diverse community
is
[1:32:48] sometimes means paying for things that
you don't actually like. There's a lot
[1:32:53] of things that my tax dollars go to that
I don't agree with,
[1:32:58] but I think that's part that's part of
living in a community with other people
[1:33:02] who have different views. And it's part
of supporting choice. And I think that's
[1:33:07] really important. um and has been while
you watch other small towns fade into
[1:33:13] the distance, this town continues to be
vibrant and even growing and I think
[1:33:17] private education plays a huge role in
that.
[1:33:22] » Thank you, Matt.
>> Yeah, go ahead.
[1:33:27] » State your name and
>> My name is Christina Reer James, Retown,
[1:33:30] Wisconsin. I just wanted to a couple
things. um they do not have the same uh
[1:33:37] accountability and transparency as
public schools. But that isn't the issue
[1:33:40] we're talking about right now. The issue
that we're talking about is
[1:33:43] transparency. Like how many of you knew
that your tax dollars were going to fund
[1:33:49] public schools? And not I'm not I'm not
saying anything I or private schools.
[1:33:53] I've I sent my own children to a private
school. I have nothing against it and I
[1:33:57] understand the value of the public
schools in our community. But your tax
[1:34:01] dollars are also going to the Academy of
Excellence in Milwaukee or wherever, you
[1:34:06] know, because some of these schools are
online. So, and also like public
[1:34:11] schools, you can go to the DPI and look
at the public school budget. You can see
[1:34:16] it all. It they it is transparent. It's
all available. It's public information.
[1:34:20] And that is not true of of voucher
schools. But my issue is just that the
[1:34:27] community understands where they're
talking. I don't think that the public
[1:34:30] school should carry that burden alone on
the tax bill. And and that isn't saying
[1:34:36] anything bad about the school, any
school. It's just saying this is where
[1:34:41] your money's going.
There's nobody in this room that has
[1:34:45] anything bad to say, I'm sure, about the
good schools we have in our community.
[1:34:50] We just think people should understand
how the money is being spent.
[1:34:55] » Thank you, Christina.
Does anybody else from the public either
[1:35:01] online
or in the room want to come forward for
[1:35:06] public comment?
[1:35:10] » Sarah.
>> Yep. Sarah's gonna
[1:35:14] » Can you state your name and your address
and then you'll have three minutes?
[1:35:19] » Yep. Hi, this is uh Karen Dap. I'm the
Vernon County Treasurer uh at E7130
[1:35:26] Swenson Road in Baroqua. Um I just
wanted to talk a little bit about what
[1:35:31] should and shouldn't I guess go on the
tax bills. Um so really what should go
[1:35:37] on there is how much they should pay,
when they need to pay it, and where it
[1:35:42] needs to get paid.
Um I know uh they used uh Green Bay as
[1:35:49] an example and I just wanted to kind of
state that when they did that they had
[1:35:53] to abbreviate a lot of things which
caused a lot of confusion to the
[1:35:57] taxpayers. So because our systems don't
allow for a lot of notes. Um they had to
[1:36:04] abbreviate GBAs I believe on there and
then a dollar amount. So, a lot of
[1:36:11] people didn't know what that stood for.
Um, so I would recommend if there is
[1:36:17] going to be something with the
transparency to put it on the the back
[1:36:21] of the tax bill or in your insert that
shows the DPI website and where more
[1:36:27] information can be found. Um, I'm going
to be the one taking a lot of those
[1:36:32] phone calls along with Lori um, in
regards to where those numbers come from
[1:36:37] and we don't always know those answers,
but the school would probably know that
[1:36:42] or DPI would know that. So, that's just
my concerns. Thank you.
[1:36:47] » Thank you, Karen. Um, are you staying
online for So, we're in the public
[1:36:52] period or public comment right now. Um,
I'm hopeful that you'll stay online for
[1:36:58] the next discussion with possible action
where we can talk and ask questions in
[1:37:03] more detail about what you just shared.
>> Sure. Absolutely.
[1:37:07] » Thank you. For the public, Karen Dap is
the um treasurer for Vernon County. So,
[1:37:14] that's who we just heard from. All
right. Um, is there anybody else online
[1:37:19] at this time who wants to make a public
comment?
[1:37:28] Thank you. Um, you can come forward,
state your name, your address, and
[1:37:32] you'll have three minutes.
>> Do I press a button here first? It's
[1:37:35] already on. Uh, my name is Michael
Brown, uh, 410 East South Street here in
[1:37:40] Veroa. Uh I just want to take a moment
to to thank uh Christina immensely uh
[1:37:44] for taking the lead on uh understanding
a very complex issue that has been with
[1:37:51] Wisconsin for uh for quite a while now.
Um what we have seen in the in the
[1:37:57] public is that not a lot of people
understand how money goes from one place
[1:38:01] to another and what's happening. Uh and
I I personally support the transparency
[1:38:06] effort um to uh to understand where
money is going. um and so that we all
[1:38:11] can make better decisions uh as we think
about uh what we need to do for
[1:38:17] ourselves uh in in elections uh with
elected officials and start to think
[1:38:21] about how to affect change that can um
uh that can really affect a community
[1:38:25] positively. Um, I think the the issue
overall that we're looking at, um, I
[1:38:31] think people are just tired and people
are exhausted and there is a lot of
[1:38:37] noise in the world. And when it comes to
something like this, looking at this
[1:38:42] grid and saying, "What money am I
talking about?" Not many people can sit
[1:38:46] there and and take the time to absorb
that. But um Christina, thank you for
[1:38:50] taking the uh taking all your personal
time to to figure this out and actually
[1:38:54] come forward with a proposal that can
help people understand better what's
[1:38:58] actually happening in very complex
systems. Uh and I just want to voice my
[1:39:02] support for seeing more transparency uh
within our tax bills. So thank you.
[1:39:08] » Thank you, Michael.
[1:39:14] » My name is Sonia Newuenhouse. I live at
422 Hickory Street. Um I have a daughter
[1:39:19] at 8th grade at Veroqua. I support
having transparency but mostly my reason
[1:39:26] being um with declining enrollment not
at all just due to private schools but
[1:39:31] to population changes. Um we really need
to support our public schools and that's
[1:39:38] how our our town will stay vibrant. um
as well as having the additional schools
[1:39:43] to keep our you know people wanting to
move here. Um and when people see a
[1:39:48] higher and higher proportion of their
tax bill going to public schools they
[1:39:53] might just be like you know so I think
it would be just um wonderful to spell
[1:40:01] it out a little more. I think it should
be an insert. I'm very grateful that
[1:40:05] Karen took the time to be on on the call
today. the treasure um to remind us of
[1:40:12] the details and the potential headaches.
But I also think we could use that
[1:40:16] insert as an opportunity um because many
people don't go on the website of the
[1:40:21] city. So now I'm not talking about
schools, but it's an opportunity for the
[1:40:25] city to maybe make some other
announcements
[1:40:28] um you know like uh something about
shoveling if if it's winter time and the
[1:40:33] tax bill is coming out then. But um I
think we could really use that insert
[1:40:36] for some other key aspects that we want
everybody to know about because I don't
[1:40:41] think people go to our website to find
out information about mowing and
[1:40:46] shoveling etc.
Thank you Sonia.
[1:40:57] There anyone else at this time?
All right, we will move on to item
[1:41:05] 16, discussion with possible action on
tax bill transparency resolution. We do
[1:41:11] not have a resolution drafted at this
time. We have looked at um some of the
[1:41:17] other resolutions that are public that
other places have
[1:41:24] either put forward or adopted. Um but at
this time we are at the very first step
[1:41:30] of opening this conversation in our
community and this is a conversation
[1:41:34] that is not
uh something that the city does on its
[1:41:40] own. This is something that the city is
a
[1:41:44] piece of the pie or piece of the puzzle
of how tax bills come and um what it's
[1:41:51] included. And so where we can make
decisions, it's our intention tonight to
[1:41:55] ask questions to the other people who
have to make some of these decisions
[1:42:04] there. Um, we do not have anybody from
school board here representing, but we
[1:42:08] do have two people in the room who are
from the public schools. Uh, Dr. Jeremy
[1:42:13] Hill, our district administrator
superintendent, is here and Chris
[1:42:16] Rosseski is here. And you heard from him
a little bit earlier.
[1:42:21] Um Lori Pamus is our city clerk and
Karen Dilap is online. She's the Vernon
[1:42:28] County treasurer.
And I think in this conversation and
[1:42:33] discussion, we're all going to learn a
whole lot about
[1:42:37] how this all works because as council
we, you know, discuss and think about
[1:42:42] what we want to do, a park, school
funding, tax bills, all the things. And
[1:42:47] then these fine partners help implement
and figure out how we're going to do it.
[1:42:53] So anything that we decide we might want
to do here, this is an opportunity to
[1:42:58] ask the questions about, well, how would
that actually go? And then also to
[1:43:02] listen to hear what actually occurs in
the offices upstairs and down the street
[1:43:10] because we're the county seat um county
buildings nearby, but also at our
[1:43:16] schools. So um with that we'll open for
discussion on this topic.
[1:43:27] » Well I have an easy question I think. Um
if we were to move that we wanted to
[1:43:32] have this line item or this insert,
how would that would that just be the
[1:43:39] city collected ones? You were thinking
the same thing, weren't you? Because the
[1:43:43] county sends out a postcard. So, we
can't do an insert with the postcard.
[1:43:48] » Okay. I just been sitting here quietly
worrying about this one because I know
[1:43:53] there's a lot of people in the room that
don't know how a tax bill actually is
[1:43:56] created. The city itself does not create
those tax bills. That's why we have the
[1:44:02] county treasurer that does that. There
are only so many lines, as you did hear
[1:44:06] her say, to be able to put on that tax
bill. And there's only so many places
[1:44:10] that you can actually make those
changes. There's not a lot of room left
[1:44:14] because the state tells us what we have
to put on there. And Karen, you may want
[1:44:20] to answer this one. When you said put it
on the back of the tax bill, I don't
[1:44:23] even know. Is that possible?
>> I I'm not sure. I I think so, but a lot
[1:44:30] of the the back of the tax bill is
actually like statemandated. What's on
[1:44:33] there?
>> Correct.
[1:44:35] » That comes from like the Department of
Revenue. So, I I'm not sure if that is
[1:44:39] an option. the insert is probably the
best option in my opinion and not
[1:44:44] putting it on the tax bill. The problem
is the font size is going to be tiny. It
[1:44:49] might work for the city of Aroa that
only has one school district, but when
[1:44:52] you start talking multiple school
districts, those are going to be
[1:44:55] different numbers and that's going to
cause a lot of I mean I don't know how
[1:45:00] that would even work. Um because the the
notes would have to be the same for each
[1:45:05] municipality.
So, as far as I know, that's not even a
[1:45:10] thing that we can do right now at this
time.
[1:45:13] » Okay. So, I just want I just wanted to
make sure everybody heard that
[1:45:16] originally, the back of the tax bill.
So, that's probably not an option. The
[1:45:20] second option that we've talked about
here is the tax inserts.
[1:45:24] Everybody is required by the PSC, we
have to send out notices on when they
[1:45:30] have the the the listing of how much
you're paying in your utility bills.
[1:45:35] Plus, they have that other options. And
so, that's already a two-phase or
[1:45:39] twosided thing that goes in as an
insert. The other thing is your dog and
[1:45:44] your cat and all those licensing that
one-third sheet. These are not free. We
[1:45:50] use a third party that actually stuffs
and sends out our tax bills. We cannot
[1:45:55] send them stuff just to attach and throw
in there. We have to pay for them to
[1:46:00] print and stuff that. So, if we add
another insert, that is going to
[1:46:05] increase our postage. They only allow us
three inserts, and we already have
[1:46:10] basically three already. So, we can't
even add anything in there at this
[1:46:14] point.
So, I'm just saying that if you decide
[1:46:18] that you want to do an insert versus
maybe if there's a line item that would
[1:46:22] like say reference someplace, I know
everybody wants to have that ooey gooey
[1:46:27] letter saying what everybody's doing in
the city. It's a great idea. I love the
[1:46:32] idea, but I don't think it belongs in
the tax bill. I think it belongs at
[1:46:36] maybe another time of the year because
we are always at the end of the line of
[1:46:41] basically the time frame and when we can
get this stuff out based on when the
[1:46:44] budget happens because we're waiting on
the school district, the county, all
[1:46:49] those entities to get us the information
to get to the county so that they can
[1:46:53] even get those processed and then sent
out to our third party. We get calls
[1:46:58] every year, where's our tax bill? It's
like the middle of December and they
[1:47:02] still haven't gotten it yet. Well,
there's a lot of factors that get it to
[1:47:05] that point, but if we add things into
that tax bill as another insert, that's
[1:47:09] another delay for you guys getting your
bills. So, I just want you guys to all
[1:47:14] be completely aware of all the
additional cost that just one insert can
[1:47:20] do to your PAX bill that we are already
required to do.
[1:47:25] » Can we take out the dog and cat
licensing thing and put in the
[1:47:31] if you don't want to collect dog and cat
licenses, I I'm required to do that,
[1:47:35] too. So, something's got to give. And I
don't know where that I mean, I I
[1:47:40] totally agree with the fact that we need
transparency. I just don't know if the
[1:47:44] tax bill is the actual location. I would
rather somehow teach our residents that
[1:47:50] there are other options for resources
than just spoon feeding it. Because if
[1:47:55] you look at the number of tax bills that
go out, a lot of them don't live here.
[1:48:00] We've got Airbnbs up the wazoo in this
city and they they don't look at that
[1:48:04] information. Half the time when they
send their payment back, those inserts
[1:48:07] are coming back with the payment. They
never even opened and read it. So, I
[1:48:12] don't think that that's the place that
they're going to actually a lot of
[1:48:15] people will, but I'm just saying what
I've seen that I don't think that that's
[1:48:18] the most greatest use of our resources
and our our tax dollars to spend to send
[1:48:26] that stuff out.
I think that's important to include what
[1:48:30] she just said is that it's going to cost
us more
[1:48:36] if we try to tackle this as an insert
that it will cost more tax dollars
[1:48:43] to help educate about where the tax
dollars are going and that's just
[1:48:49] important to note. Um Karen, do you have
anything to add on this topic at this
[1:48:55] time? and then I'll ask some of the
others in the room who might have an
[1:49:00] idea on this.
>> No, I think I, you know, basically just
[1:49:05] stated that I I do think if you just put
it onto the tax bill, um it's just going
[1:49:10] to be minimal characters. It's going to
be very small and it's going to cause a
[1:49:14] lot of confusion and nobody's going to
understand it. So, I don't think it's
[1:49:18] really going to serve its purpose there.
Thank you.
[1:49:23] Can you talk a little about what you
shared with me the other day, like the
[1:49:27] cost of actually trying to change the
form for the tax bill?
[1:49:34] » Sure. So, I'm I'm not super familiar
with that. I just um I did reach out to
[1:49:39] Lacrosse County Treasurer um because she
has had this come up. She's had, I
[1:49:44] believe, three school districts request
a resolution to put it on the tax bill.
[1:49:48] And so she did a lot of research um and
she was the one that I discussed this
[1:49:55] with. Um she informed me that um you
know just due to the minimal characters
[1:50:00] that we'd have they'd have to um make
changes to the program and there would
[1:50:05] be a cost associated. I don't know what
that cost would be. I don't know who
[1:50:09] would um have to pay for that cost in
order for us to do what we actually
[1:50:14] would want to do. And in regards to if
there's multiple school districts that
[1:50:19] are included in one municipality,
how do you, you know, how do you
[1:50:24] determine which tax bills are going to
have $1 amount versus the other based on
[1:50:30] the school district? Our system isn't
smart enough to figure that out. It just
[1:50:34] be a blanket statement for a
municipality, if that makes sense.
[1:50:42] » Thank you.
>> Yep.
[1:50:46] Dr. Hill or um Mr. Roseski, if you want
to add anything at this time, uh
[1:50:55] not that you need to, but if you do want
to, please come up to the podium and and
[1:50:59] do so.
>> Could one second. Could this be
[1:51:05] something as simple as instead of coming
up with a dollar amount on your tax
[1:51:10] bill,
>> a percentage?
[1:51:12] » A percentage. Okay. So I get
[1:51:17] a letter say or it doesn't have to be
that. It could be in the newspaper. It
[1:51:20] could be on the right anywhere saying
8% of your tax school tax money goes to
[1:51:30] outofcount schools instead of putting it
in the
[1:51:36] sending it out with your taxes. Is it
something that could be that simple
[1:51:40] instead of coming up with a dollar
amount? It's a great offering of an
[1:51:44] idea. Go ahead.
>> Uh, thank you, mayor. My name is Jeremy
[1:51:49] Hill. I'm the district administrator for
Veroa Area Schools, and I am at 5386
[1:51:54] Birdie Court.
We appreciate this conversation. We
[1:51:59] appreciate the partnership with the city
and with the county and we think that it
[1:52:04] is important for people to know where
their tax dollars go and and what we pay
[1:52:10] for at the at the school. I think the
the question raised about municipalities
[1:52:16] is is actually probably the opposite of
that. This one municipality
[1:52:22] is all Veroa area schools, but Veroa
area schools includes several
[1:52:27] municipalities.
So when you make a resolution to say
[1:52:33] that that this is what you would like to
do if that were to be the case, it
[1:52:38] doesn't cover the Veroa Township,
doesn't cover Jefferson Township, it
[1:52:44] doesn't cover any of those additional
township pieces that would be very
[1:52:48] difficult for the county to try to
disagregate and break apart.
[1:52:56] Any other questions that you would have
for me?
[1:53:02] Okay.
>> I was just trying to look up what our,
[1:53:05] you know, an image of our tax bill,
which I think would be helpful.
[1:53:10] I mean, so, and I'm very familiar with
what the county postcards look like.
[1:53:18] There's not a lot of room on the
postcard, but the city bill like there
[1:53:22] is a line item that has
Are you saying that we can't add a sec
[1:53:27] another line item? Like our like there
seems like there's plenty of room on a
[1:53:32] on a city tax bill.
>> So before we answer that, I just want to
[1:53:36] make sure we stay in the frame of the
agenda, Mr. McClur. Um that the goal
[1:53:44] tonight is to start this discussion and
to understand the nuance of just how
[1:53:48] detailed this is because in order to
continue with this work, council does
[1:53:54] need to think about the amount of work
that would possibly need to go into
[1:53:57] unwinding and then clearly and
transparently communicating it which
[1:54:03] would take a a an approval of
do we want to work towards this or not
[1:54:11] and if we do are we approving city t
staff time to work on that and so that's
[1:54:17] the frame of tonight
from that we would then bring an update
[1:54:23] to a future the other ideas that do
should there be a committee formed or a
[1:54:30] separate team formed for this task these
are some things that we can take action
[1:54:37] on tonight
>> the other thing that I want to say
[1:54:40] before I sit sit down is that I work for
the Veroa Area Schools Board of
[1:54:47] Education.
They instruct me in the work that I do
[1:54:53] and they have not had a chance to talk
about this either. And so it's important
[1:54:58] for them to be part of that
conversation.
[1:55:01] We're lucky that we live in Veroa and
that we have partnerships across our
[1:55:06] community. This is an incredible place
to raise your kids because there are so
[1:55:11] many choices for schooling. This is a
community of choice. And the great thing
[1:55:15] about Veroa is that there is a place for
everybody in this community. So, I want
[1:55:20] to state publicly that that we are
grateful for those partnerships. We're
[1:55:23] grateful for our partnerships with the
private schools in our community because
[1:55:28] we share resources. We provide
opportunities for their students to take
[1:55:32] two classes in our school system.
We're grateful for the partnership with
[1:55:38] the city. We don't want to lose sight of
that as well. So, thank you for having
[1:55:44] this conversation.
>> Thank you for coming. And I want to also
[1:55:48] as a leader here share gratitude for
everybody in this room and that we are a
[1:55:53] strong place because we have options.
And we're also a
[1:55:58] phenomenal picture at a time in the
world of a lot of different people
[1:56:05] coming together to say, "Huh, that's a
tricky problem. How do we want to solve
[1:56:10] this?" Because at the end of the day,
this is what will keep us strong is that
[1:56:15] we're going to look at the challenges
that any one or parts of us are facing
[1:56:19] and say,
"Yeah, we should look at that
[1:56:23] differently or we could do this to
overcome things that maybe we can't
[1:56:27] control at a local level,
but we can do something to help each
[1:56:32] other through it." So, thank you for
coming and I totally agree with your
[1:56:37] sentiment.
You
[1:56:42] just to well I'll try to keep it quick.
So I you know my parents were both
[1:56:47] educators. My grandparents I have
grandparents that were educators um in
[1:56:51] the public all in the public school
district. Um what I'm hearing here I
[1:56:56] think is sort of a root cause that we
need more support for our public schools
[1:57:01] and that they need more money. I'm not
sure that this methodology of pushing
[1:57:06] that education campaign out to the
public makes sense to me. Um, I love the
[1:57:11] communication campaign. I love I love
the passion that you're putting into it,
[1:57:15] Christina. That's why I'm that I love
that I'm engaged in this council as like
[1:57:20] the junior most member of this council
because I'm learning so much. Like I can
[1:57:23] I now know that $1 million figure. If I
could remember, I could tell you how
[1:57:28] much it costs to patch the concrete
bump outside of Aldi or Walmart. Like
[1:57:34] I'm learning like an excav how much a
new excavator costs. A used ambulance
[1:57:37] costs $55,000.
Um,
[1:57:42] but I don't know that I want to put all
that in the tax bill for property tax
[1:57:46] owners. I mean, I'm I want to educate
myself more on where my tax money is
[1:57:49] going. I do believe that even though
this money is being funneled out of our
[1:57:53] p public schools, it is still mostly
going to help children in the state of
[1:57:57] Wisconsin, which I'm happy about. I do
also suspect that some of the money I
[1:58:01] spend on taxes, not Veroa taxes, does
maybe go to potentially harm children,
[1:58:06] and that is a concern, and I'm
embarrassed that I don't know what that
[1:58:09] number is. Um, so I I can't imagine
personally voting in favor of this
[1:58:14] resolution because it's just like where
does it is this the beginning of some
[1:58:18] larger thing where we decide one onesie
twoozy what we put into our property tax
[1:58:23] bill and how how could we instead use
this body to somehow promote or or
[1:58:29] figure out how to better support our
public schools and and educate the
[1:58:34] larger public about like why do people
not want to pass resolutions? That's
[1:58:38] crazy. Of course, we all want the best
for our kids, right? So, that's just
[1:58:42] kind of where I am at. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Kyle. I think that's
[1:58:51] exactly what we're doing tonight is just
opening this conversation like is a
[1:58:54] resolution the right path? Is a tax bill
the right place? What other options do
[1:59:00] we have? And I want to encourage us to
ask those questions of do we want to
[1:59:06] create a subcommittee on something? Do
we want to approve working
[1:59:13] collaboratively across our community to
figure out how to tackle
[1:59:20] supporting public goods,
not only just obviously public works and
[1:59:25] public safety, but um continuing to have
strong schools, school choice, safe
[1:59:32] places for all people in our community.
Um,
[1:59:38] I'd like to hear more about what what
your thoughts and deliberations are.
[1:59:52] Okay. I definitely think the public
needs to know because I I agree that a
[1:59:56] lot of people don't know that their
money is going to the private schools.
[2:00:00] Whether they like that or not, they need
to know. I think that's important. I
[2:00:05] think we need to figure out a way to
tell them and and I certainly would, you
[2:00:09] know, listen to what Lori had to say and
our county treasurer about how it would
[2:00:14] affect them. I'm curious, I guess, how
the other cities, Oaklair, other cities
[2:00:19] that did that they have a did they have
the same problem as Green Bay? I don't
[2:00:22] know. But if some other suggestion, I'm
open to something so the public knows.
[2:00:30] Well, the you had asked a question
regarding is there room on our tax bill.
[2:00:34] We are statemandated to if there's a
referendum at all, that is the one thing
[2:00:39] that has to go on there. So, the more
referendums that end up on there, that
[2:00:44] is what has to be on there 100%.
That's not saying that there's going to
[2:00:48] be room to do that every year if it's
possible. Well, I guess I would have to
[2:00:54] work with our county treasurer to know
if it's even possible because we that's
[2:00:58] one thing that we have to put on there
is how much of your tax bill is paying
[2:01:02] for this referendum for this school
district. That is one of our
[2:01:05] requirements. Now, I believe on the last
tax bill, I think there was was there
[2:01:10] three referendums listed? I can't
remember what dates they were that that
[2:01:15] they came through, but it seems like
there was three lines of different
[2:01:19] referendums.
Yeah.
[2:01:23] Yep. So there might been two left, but
if they go for another referendum, then
[2:01:27] that's another one that has So all them
spaces have to be used specifically for
[2:01:31] that. So there may not be room. There
may be this year, but maybe not next
[2:01:35] year. So you can't count on that on the
tax bill.
[2:01:42] Is there a way right now to find out
what like if I wanted to call somebody
[2:01:48] right now and figure out what percentage
I paid to this,
[2:01:53] is there a person I can contact?
>> Yeah.
[2:01:59] » So, if that information is already
readily available,
[2:02:03] transparency is great.
But do we Yes. My own taxes
[2:02:09] » of your personal Yeah. I think it's just
a probably a percent.
[2:02:14] » So transparency is great, but if it
already exists,
[2:02:19] if people want to know,
>> right? Why spoon feed them?
[2:02:23] » They don't even know the ask the
question though.
[2:02:25] » Maybe they don't care though.
>> Oh, I think
[2:02:28] » right. Like I mean,
>> but if they care, they should go
[2:02:31] looking.
>> But if people don't,
[2:02:34] » I mean, I think the question it's a good
question, AJ, but the question is like,
[2:02:37] were you surprised by that number? And
if you were surprised by that number as
[2:02:40] a council person who's involved in
making those decisions, then maybe other
[2:02:45] people would also be surprised by that
number.
[2:02:48] » Agree with that, D.
>> And we didn't ask the question.
[2:02:51] Christina was just brought it to us.
>> Appreciate Christina.
[2:02:55] » It's good question.
>> I'm saying if it's already there to get,
[2:02:59] right? Like
>> we now see this if Yeah.
[2:03:04] like they can get they can get that
information if they really needed it
[2:03:07] without us spending
x amount of dollars to put it on a tax
[2:03:13] bill or an insert.
[2:03:18] » I think anything relating to the school
tax le you can always call me about. Um
[2:03:23] that's that's definitely part of my job.
>> Do you want to state your phone number?
[2:03:28] » Just kidding.
>> Um that that number changes every year.
[2:03:33] I mean, we could we could come up with a
percentage of what the total total levy
[2:03:36] is b what the percentage of the the
voucher piece is out of our total levy
[2:03:42] and you could apply that to your uh your
the amount that you've got on your tax
[2:03:46] bill for the school district. And that
is essentially what that number would be
[2:03:49] if you're ever interested in knowing
what that would be. I like doing math um
[2:03:54] and can figure that out for you and let
you know.
[2:03:59] So, thank you for that answer and I
appreciate what you're asking
[2:04:05] tonight. Do we want to move forward with
continuing work on this? And
[2:04:12] I'm not suggesting we have to move
towards a resolution, but continuing to
[2:04:18] work on this means that we would have to
approve the ability to do so.
[2:04:24] I would make a motion we continue to
work on this just to see how we should
[2:04:29] proceed.
[2:04:36] I mean I I'd be in favor of at least
finding out what a resolution looks like
[2:04:40] or what some other
>> You got to get a second before we can
[2:04:42] discuss if to her motion.
>> I'll second it. So we
[2:04:48] » So motion by Cindy and a second by
Tanya.
[2:04:51] » Further discussion.
>> Yeah. So hearing that there is interest
[2:04:54] in in my thought. Can I finish my
thought?
[2:04:56] » Oh de cut me off.
>> Yeah, please do.
[2:04:58] » Sorry, I'm just trying to do rapid rules
here.
[2:05:02] » Uh to find out what the other options
are, you know, it sounds like putting it
[2:05:07] necessarily a line on the tax bill isn't
isn't maybe the best option, but years
[2:05:11] ago, I remember asking Nate if he could
do one of those pie charts so people
[2:05:14] could see like for every $1 of your tax
money, how much of that goes to
[2:05:20] different departments? because I found
that enlightening when somebody showed
[2:05:23] that to me and I feel like that's it's
just another exercise. So like finding
[2:05:27] the way that actually gets the
information to people is more important
[2:05:30] than
so moving forward is just
[2:05:35] how to maybe it's just a something on
our website that just is very very clear
[2:05:41] or you know apparently the only place
people get their information and news is
[2:05:45] on Facebook. So
>> you know post on Facebook but I'd be in
[2:05:51] favor of moving forward. But I'm not in
favor of having the staff
[2:05:55] take this on as something that they need
to solve necessarily.
[2:06:02] » Some of how that
>> volunteering to be on a committee, the
[2:06:06] budget committee.
>> Some of how it happens is a question
[2:06:08] comes in or an email comes in to the any
any office staff person, right? someone
[2:06:17] calls, hears this meeting, calls or
calls because they saw something around
[2:06:22] town and then it takes time during the
day to
[2:06:28] route that and answer that question. So
knowing that there are going to be
[2:06:35] questions asked because we have an
active school referendum. So people
[2:06:40] inevitably ask questions.
Do we want to Yeah. the you know that's
[2:06:47] one of the ways that this happens is
time is allocated because the public's
[2:06:51] asking how do we want to move and I'm
hearing a motion in a second but Kyle
[2:06:57] also wanted to
>> yeah just the question and it can be
[2:07:00] totally be left unanswered but um for
those of you that that are interested in
[2:07:05] moving this forward let's say we
realized that there was a magic wand
[2:07:09] right now and we could wave that magic
wand and all of a sudden every property
[2:07:14] tax payer
in Veroa.
[2:07:17] This information was in their mind right
now and they knew exactly what that
[2:07:21] number was, what the total budget for
the school was, what percentage of the
[2:07:24] budget, what percentage of their payout
was was being funneled out
[2:07:30] of the community or out of the public
school. Um, what would happen? Like what
[2:07:36] is the greater good that would happen
from that? All of them knowing because
[2:07:40] that's ultimately what we're trying to
accomplish, I think, is what I'm
[2:07:42] hearing. We want everybody to know this
and we want them to know what their
[2:07:46] contribution is that's being taken out
of the public school system that they
[2:07:50] thought was part of the public school
system. That's my question.
[2:07:52] » One thing comes comes to mind is do we
want to have a voucher system? And that
[2:07:58] would be something that you contact your
representative about
[2:08:02] » if you didn't like that what was going
on.
[2:08:06] What I heard um is that the line item
calls it public school funding and it's
[2:08:13] not. It's public and private school
funding. So that's what I heard and that
[2:08:18] I think is a fair delineation. If the
state in their folly or wisdom has
[2:08:25] decided that that money is no longer
public school money, but now it's public
[2:08:28] and private school money, then that's
what we should actually be telling
[2:08:34] people.
>> Just those private schools that have
[2:08:36] signed up for the school choice program.
We wouldn't want to throw all the
[2:08:39] private school.
>> But it's money that is going to private
[2:08:41] I didn't say it's all private schools. I
said it's going to it's funding private
[2:08:45] schools. Some private schools. It's
funding private schools. So, it's not
[2:08:49] just funding public schools.
So, I sent my kids to both public and
[2:08:55] private schools.
And I never once asked my neighbors to
[2:09:00] help me pay the tuition at my private
school.
[2:09:03] And um that's where I stand.
[2:09:15] Do you have an answer to your own
question or an idea on it? Or
[2:09:19] » if I if I could if if I had a hundred of
those magic wands that would put
[2:09:23] information about where people's tax
money was going, this was not this would
[2:09:27] not be the magic wand I would wave
first. That's all I'm saying. I I think
[2:09:31] this is important. I want everybody to
know everything. I agree. But it's not
[2:09:35] the top priority in my mind for what we
need to educate our public. push an
[2:09:39] education out to property owners about
>> everybody. Remember that my name is on
[2:09:45] those bills. So, whatever you decide,
I'm the one that's going to get the
[2:09:49] call.
>> I do want to make a motion, but I won't
[2:09:51] actually make a motion about the dog
register.
[2:09:55] » Yeah, we have a motion to continue
working and a second by Tanya. Um,
[2:10:01] » what's that look like? Who's the who's
working on it?
[2:10:12] Some of this comes in um
[2:10:17] in calls and emails
and it's my understanding in
[2:10:22] conversations with the school that this
is something that
[2:10:28] the board may take up to work on. I
don't want to speak for them or make
[2:10:34] assumptions for the school. So, if um
Dr. Hill wants to help clarify that um
[2:10:43] I would be very open to that.
[2:10:55] It was left on for me earlier. Made me
look good.
[2:10:59] I I would say that right now our board
is committed to two board goals which is
[2:11:06] uh ensuring that 100% of our students
make a minimum of one year's growth in
[2:11:10] one year's time and that 100% of our
students manage 95% attendance. So those
[2:11:17] are the two big board focuses that they
have right now. um as you learned and
[2:11:23] this is not necessarily germanine to
this conversation and and we've all said
[2:11:26] that they voted last week to go to
operational referendum and that will be
[2:11:31] their major focus until November 3rd. Um
I will bring this to their attention. I
[2:11:36] I did share with them this morning that
I was coming this evening. Uh and I
[2:11:41] think that that will be up to them if
they want to to take that conversation
[2:11:45] on.
[2:11:54] Do we want to work on a resolution?
[2:12:05] » I'm sorry. Do we need to vote on what we
already
[2:12:10] » You put forward a motion in a second,
but Steve asked a question of what are
[2:12:15] we working on or doing? Sorry, clarify.
>> No, who's doing the work? You say we,
[2:12:24] » but like so we we talked in this greater
sense of the community.
[2:12:30] » Like if there's going to be a
subcommittee made up of members of this
[2:12:35] body plus other members, I guess I'm not
going to be on that board. I don't have
[2:12:41] any more time with all the other boards
I'm on to do something that is just to
[2:12:47] inform
and doesn't change ultimately
[2:12:52] anything, right? Like the money is still
going to come out.
[2:12:56] You know what I'm saying? Like
>> I felt
[2:13:00] a lot of work to
>> nothing.
[2:13:06] And I'm not saying education's not
>> No, I understand. And I think I hear
[2:13:09] that you're saying like we don't have
the magic wand
[2:13:14] » to make this possible for everybody to
know tomorrow.
[2:13:21] » We're working within systems
that we learned from Karen and the
[2:13:26] county of what is possible to put on a
tax bill. What's put in there? We have
[2:13:33] only so many hours in a day to do the
work of using tax dollars to
[2:13:40] take care of, maintain, and do projects
for public goods across the city.
[2:13:49] Unfortunately,
decisions that are made at other levels
[2:13:53] of government
are making it challenging for some of
[2:13:57] our public goods or most of our public
goods to remain
[2:14:02] well resourced and that is not public
information at this time.
[2:14:08] So what we can do at a local level is
tell
[2:14:15] is to make that transparent and then
tell that message
[2:14:19] out to say it's we need this to
resource our community the way we want
[2:14:28] to resource it right if we want to have
choices how do we want to do it if we
[2:14:32] want to have
you know I think the discourse of this
[2:14:38] across the city with partners is an
important thing and I I hear the motion
[2:14:44] and second to work on it and I think we
don't yet know because we are coming to
[2:14:48] the table in
support of
[2:14:53] a community conversation that will be on
a ballot in November.
[2:15:00] I would prefer that we if this does move
forward that we have that if somebody
[2:15:05] has a resolution that they actually want
to bring forward for us to vote on that
[2:15:08] that's what happens next.
>> Okay. I kind of feel like rescending my
[2:15:12] my second only because
I don't think this body gathers together
[2:15:19] to
to do the work you're talking about
[2:15:23] happens outside of council and then a
resolution or a proposal is brought to
[2:15:28] council. So I I while I still want to
move forward with this, I'm not sure
[2:15:33] this body needs to necessarily vote on
it. I think that that anybody at any
[2:15:38] time can put on the agenda
an actual proposal to vote on and that
[2:15:44] if there's folks who want to work on
that outside of that, I'm not I'm just
[2:15:47] not convinced we need to
[2:15:52] decide or appoint that tonight.
Does that make sense?
[2:15:57] » Totally. one of the I.
>> So, here's some insight is that if let's
[2:16:04] say let's say Seth was going to work on
this tomorrow. In order to do so, he
[2:16:09] would have to pick up the phone and call
Lori to get information. So now Lori's
[2:16:15] » we're doing this work in some of the
committees that we're working with
[2:16:18] housing board. That's what we're doing.
We're doing the work in the committee
[2:16:21] and then we sometimes have to ask Lori
questions and then we bring a proposal
[2:16:25] to council. Is there a committee that
this belongs in?
[2:16:38] Why don't we just vote on it so we can
move on? We spent a lot of time on this.
[2:16:42] » So, you're in favor of it being worked
on?
[2:16:44] » I don't care anymore at the moment. I
think we need to move on.
[2:16:53] » No offense. I'm sorry.
>> No, I just think
[2:16:56] Um,
>> I think the public needs to know, but I
[2:16:59] agree with Trina.
>> So, how do they know?
[2:17:01] » Tanya makes good points.
>> How do they know? That's the question.
[2:17:05] » Well, call Can we call the question?
>> Can we call the question?
[2:17:13] » Well, I know you have a meeting tonight.
[2:17:19] Oh.
[2:17:30] All in favor? Roll call.
>> You want a roll call? I can do a roll
[2:17:35] call.
>> Let's do a roll call.
[2:17:41] » No.
>> No.
[2:17:44] » Hey,
>> no.
[2:17:47] » No.
>> Kyle,
[2:17:49] » no.
>> No.
[2:17:52] Cindy,
>> no.
[2:17:54] » Don,
>> no.
[2:17:56] » No.
>> That means we don't want to continue
[2:18:00] this.
>> All right. Well, that means we don't
[2:18:02] want to continue with this
>> motion.
[2:18:04] » Motion. If somebody wants to bring a
resolution forward that that this did
[2:18:08] not stop that.
>> Thank
[2:18:14] resolution.
[2:18:18] » All right, we'll move on.
[2:18:24] So item 17, presentation on resolution
opposing the Marbel 765 KV project. No
[2:18:30] 765 Line Inc. and the Coalition against
Marbel 765 Inc.
[2:18:37] So
[2:18:42] again to keep this in boundaries the
there is a resolution that will be
[2:18:47] coming up as item 19
whether or not the city wants to take
[2:18:53] that up opposing this project. So to
hear about this project, uh, Michael
[2:18:58] Brown and Tim Woodhouse are going to
share a short presentation ahead of the
[2:19:05] final period for public comment.
[2:19:16] » Do I get my name again?
>> Okay. Okay.
[2:19:20] » Uh, sorry. Go ahead and tell who which
organization you're with.
[2:19:23] » Yes. Yes, my name is Michael Brown and I
am a board member uh treasurer and media
[2:19:29] lead for no 765 Line Inc. Uh and this is
>> my name is Tim Woodhouse from Genanoa.
[2:19:37] I'm the leader of the coalition against
Marbel 765.
[2:19:42] Uh we're a group of directly impacted
land owners about 70 uh families.
[2:19:51] Uh, so I don't know how uh well
acquainted everyone is with the 765
[2:19:57] uh Marbel project lines. Uh, you may
have seen signs. Uh, you may have seen
[2:20:02] me, you may have seen a number of things
uh around town and throughout the uh
[2:20:07] southern Wisconsin region. Um, I think
the the thing I really wanted to open up
[2:20:11] with today is, you know, why is this
happening? Uh, and then also explain
[2:20:15] what exactly is happening. Um, these are
the biggest power lines ever proposed uh
[2:20:20] in Wisconsin. And the the order of the
presentation today is we're going to
[2:20:25] look at the the the machine itself, the
the money, uh the stakes, and then uh
[2:20:29] you know, the the fight and what's
happening out there in the um uh in the
[2:20:33] world. So, we can move on to the next
one. Um you know, 765
[2:20:39] kilovolts. Uh that is a lot. Uh it is
more than we've ever seen. Uh if you're
[2:20:45] familiar with uh the drive from Madison
out to um like Spring Green uh is it 14
[2:20:52] I think. Um those towers that have gone
up uh those are 345 uh kilovolt towers.
[2:20:58] So we haven't seen anything uh that
carries that load in Wisconsin. Um and
[2:21:03] the Marabel project is the is the
project that is uh being proposed right
[2:21:08] now to carry those lines.
Next one.
[2:21:13] These are tall towers. Uh really,
really, really oppressively tall towers.
[2:21:19] Um roughly 200 feet. Um and a design
that uh we really haven't seen before.
[2:21:26] Um this proposed uh proposed towers, uh
like I said, they're 200 feet, but they
[2:21:30] and they carry 765 kilovolts. Uh but
they're also designed to uh to carry
[2:21:35] additional uh loads off the side. So,
um, they are, uh, I think this is the
[2:21:41] thing that catches most people off
guard. It's like, oh, wow. Uh, you know,
[2:21:44] we we we see electric lines all over the
place. Transmission, it is what it is.
[2:21:48] Um, but this is, uh, enormous. Um, and
the enormity of the project itself, the
[2:21:55] towers itself is one thing. I I would
encourage everybody to think through um,
[2:22:00] what it takes to actually construct and
build something like that. you know,
[2:22:04] when you put steel and concrete in the
ground, uh what is that going to do? Uh
[2:22:10] how does that actually come about? Uh
that comes by way of trucks and trucks
[2:22:15] on roads and um there's a lot that goes
into this. I'm not going to go into all
[2:22:20] this today um because there are many uh
many facets of the issue. Um and the
[2:22:26] website that we've developed is a really
great resource to understand um
[2:22:30] everything at play. Um but I want to
start here. Towers are huge. Towers
[2:22:35] weigh a lot. Towers have a lot of wear
and tear on your roads when they come
[2:22:38] through.
[2:22:43] It's five times the voltage or five
times the power, double the voltage. And
[2:22:49] uh one thing that I have heard in the
multiple opposition uh resolutions and
[2:22:54] conversation around those opposition
resolutions is the is the safety
[2:22:58] elements um involved in building
something like this? Um when something
[2:23:04] goes wrong with uh power like this, uh
are municipalities equipped to handle um
[2:23:12] emergencies when they happen? uh our
local EMTs uh are they equipped to to to
[2:23:17] handle this? Uh so something else to
think about.
[2:23:24] This is the the biggest uh shock that
I've seen in my in my learning journey
[2:23:29] of this um uh of this project is that
Wisconsin's been great about electricity
[2:23:34] use. You know, for the past 20 years, uh
it's been on a decline uh 4%. That's not
[2:23:39] 4% annual, that's 4% overall over the
last 20 years. Um, and this has come by
[2:23:44] way of um, you know, focus on energy
programs, uh, people putting on their
[2:23:49] own solar panels. Um, there's a lot of
reasons that this has been happening.
[2:23:53] Um, and so you might ask yourself, why
is this uh, if if we've been on a
[2:23:59] decline of energy use, uh, then why is
this being proposed? Um, so we can go
[2:24:04] forward to the next one here.
[2:24:08] That's okay.
[2:24:14] So, keep that in mind. Uh if you don't
know how uh energy projects are uh
[2:24:20] managed, proposed, uh who does the
permit issuing and who does the
[2:24:24] building, these are the three players to
understand. Uh MYSO or MISO, uh depends
[2:24:31] on who you talk to. Um this is the uh
this is the 15 state uh uh body that
[2:24:38] says hey this is how we want
transmission to happen throughout the uh
[2:24:41] throughout the region. Um and they are
the the organization that came through a
[2:24:45] while ago and said hey we're going to uh
improve the grid in this way and we're
[2:24:50] going to ask for uh more transmission to
be built. and the public service
[2:24:56] commission of Wisconsin is the the ones
who say uh hey developers come in um uh
[2:25:02] we will look at your we'll look at your
bids and then um award those bids to
[2:25:07] various developers. Um so when you think
about how the projects come about can
[2:25:12] this can be very very confusing. Uh it
was to me when I first uh first started
[2:25:16] learning about all this but uh those are
the three entities to really think
[2:25:19] about.
[2:25:24] Uh so
in 2022
[2:25:28] uh the build out uh known as the as the
tranch uh was a $10 billion buildout
[2:25:33] that got revised uh two years later to
be a $22 billion buildout. Again, this
[2:25:38] is out this is across the the 15 state
uh region. Um, and two of the lines uh
[2:25:44] that we're looking at right now are the
the 765 kilovolt lines uh coming through
[2:25:50] southern Wisconsin. Right now in the
news, you'll hear about the the Marbel
[2:25:53] line uh which is going from uh Genanoa
uh Tim's area uh all the way down to to
[2:25:59] Bell Center. And then when you hear
about what's called the Becky or BECI
[2:26:03] line, uh that's the one that goes from
Bell Center uh wraps up around Madison
[2:26:07] and uh goes down to uh the Boet area.
Um, so those are the the big ones that
[2:26:13] we're looking at right now.
>> Go ahead.
[2:26:17] » Ask a question.
>> Yes.
[2:26:18] » Maybe you're gonna answer this, but how
far apart are these? So like how many of
[2:26:22] these towers are we talking about? Are
they going to be between Genanoa and
[2:26:26] » uh I think they're Tim, you're I think
they're 800 feet.
[2:26:29] » It depends on it depends on the
geography as far as how much uh where
[2:26:36] those placements will be. So, we've been
told um
[2:26:40] on a straight level stretch uh roughly
three structures, current structures
[2:26:47] would be replaced by one tower. But then
if you're familiar with well any of the
[2:26:52] area around here, you've got some pretty
traverse. So, so I don't think that they
[2:26:58] know and they certainly haven't told us
yet.
[2:27:02] » I'm just thinking how many towers we're
really talking about. Yeah,
[2:27:06] » quite quite a few.
>> Quite a few.
[2:27:10] » Oh, yeah. So, this is the breakdown of
the the Marbel and the and the Becky
[2:27:14] lines. And um they are operating on a uh
on a different pace, a different
[2:27:19] program. Uh they're they're permitted
differently. Uh and and right now, the
[2:27:23] important thing to know is that the the
PSC has not issued a docket or or handed
[2:27:27] out uh the starting of a permit for
either of these projects. Uh the
[2:27:32] Maraveel line has been in in development
for a while now. Uh you know, land
[2:27:36] owners have been made aware of what's
happening. Uh and uh coalitions have
[2:27:41] formed. People are being made aware. Um
you know, and and that is really the uh
[2:27:46] the one here that has been of most
concern to Verning County. Um and then
[2:27:51] separately, this this Becky line. Um
that is a a separate topic. Uh and that
[2:27:56] one is accelerating uh at a pace that we
haven't seen transmission line projects
[2:28:01] uh develop before. They've uh fun fact,
they issued um uh mailers to land owners
[2:28:08] and we're expecting within a month for
landowners to uh open up their mail um
[2:28:16] attend an openhouse and issue their
comments. Uh and then after that, the
[2:28:20] developer would then go in and make some
revisions in a back room somewhere. Um
[2:28:25] but typically these processes take much
longer than that. Um so we can move on
[2:28:31] from this slide. Thank you.
So earlier I said uh 4% reduction in
[2:28:39] electricity uh in demand. Uh why is this
happening now?
[2:28:44] um the forecast uh all of a sudden
flipped and said, "Guess what? Uh we're
[2:28:49] expecting a 40% increase um uh in in
demand." And uh that 40% increase um
[2:28:57] roughly 70 72% of that increase uh in
Wisconsin can be attributed to three uh
[2:29:05] three data centers specifically. Um
there I just attended a couple open
[2:29:09] houses that uh there's breakdown of all
of these charts and graphs and there's a
[2:29:14] um a fair amount of um
smoke and mirrors going on in describing
[2:29:19] what the load is and uh uh conflating
peak demand with constant demand. Um and
[2:29:26] uh I I think everyone that I've spoken
to has concerns around well if this 40%
[2:29:31] increase uh is there and you're
anticipating more data centers coming on
[2:29:36] the path, what happens if those data
centers don't materialize? Um why would
[2:29:40] we need this massive transmission
project? Uh if that doesn't actually
[2:29:44] happen,
um and if they don't happen, then we're
[2:29:48] stuck with some very large uh obtrusive
towers uh and the cost that goes along
[2:29:54] with it.
[2:29:59] Uh, one particularly concerning issue is
that uh you will hear a developer claim
[2:30:06] uh that there is uh for every dollar
$1.80 to $3.50
[2:30:11] uh spent or for sorry for every $1 spent
there's roughly$180 to 350 in benefits.
[2:30:17] Um but the way this organization works
uh myo there is an individual named
[2:30:22] David Patton. He's basically the
internal watchdog. Um and he he does
[2:30:26] checks and balances. He runs the math.
He says well if you hadn't if you had
[2:30:29] considered these things um maybe your
math is not uh is not accurate and he's
[2:30:34] raised he's very vocal uh opponent to
this specific fact. uh and he is uh
[2:30:41] standing in front of MYSO saying uh no
for every dollar you spend we're
[2:30:45] actually only going to see uh 40 cents
or less benefit uh towards this project.
[2:30:50] Um and that in in and of itself doesn't
sound okay great somebody's losing money
[2:30:55] on the project but who's losing money on
the project? Um and we'll get to that
[2:30:59] here in the next slide.
[2:31:04] Oh, we won't get to that in the next
slide. Sorry.
[2:31:08] Um, no, that's okay. We'll we'll we'll
uh we'll uh change the narrative here.
[2:31:12] Um the the three reasons that I would
like to see Veroa uh pay attention to
[2:31:18] this um is that uh around us uh more
than 20 resolutions
[2:31:25] um uh opposition resolutions have been
passed uh within Crawford within Vernon
[2:31:30] um and these are communities standing
standing up and saying we don't want
[2:31:33] these projects uh for for various
reasons. Um so our neighbors uh within
[2:31:39] our county, within our community are
saying we don't want this. Uh and this
[2:31:43] is an opportunity for Veroa to stand up
and say uh as the county seat uh Vernon
[2:31:48] County itself has already uh entered an
opposition. Um this is a chance to join
[2:31:53] in and say we agree we don't want to see
this. Um you know geographically I say
[2:31:59] you know the ridge you know while there
is not a tower necessarily proposed to
[2:32:03] come through here. I'm using this ridge
as like the sort of the metaphor for
[2:32:07] like what happens upstream really is
going downstream to our our neighbors.
[2:32:12] So, we have a chance to be uh to be
leaders here. Um organic farms as well.
[2:32:17] We have 230 in Vernon County. Um and
when lines like this uh go up, uh these
[2:32:25] are I I hear from from land owners
almost every day. Um I've been taking a
[2:32:29] call from a woman uh near Poinette. uh
she runs a strawberry farm that she's
[2:32:34] been cultivating for for decades now.
And she's just distraught because this
[2:32:38] line is proposed to go directly over her
strawberry farm. And when they come in
[2:32:42] with the towers and the lines, that's an
easement that they have the um that they
[2:32:46] have the ability to say, uh we're going
to maintain this line in the way that's
[2:32:50] appropriate to us and they can destroy
her uh organic soil. Um then there's not
[2:32:55] a whole lot she can do about it. Um, so
many reasons that we as a community
[2:33:00] should be concerned about this. Um, and
we can go on to the next slide here.
[2:33:04] Thank you, Sarah.
Um, this one, I mean, I I asked Tim to
[2:33:10] to come here. You know, we we've been
we've been involved in many
[2:33:13] conversations today, but I I think this
one is most appropriate for for Tim to
[2:33:17] to speak to. Well, I should have
[2:33:23] um so I I got I always got a caveat that
I'm the leader of the group, so I got to
[2:33:28] keep my personal opinions to myself. Um
but you know, I work for the Genoa
[2:33:35] Township, so I understand the role of
government, the role of eminent domain.
[2:33:39] Um, and you know, I' I'd like to make
note that our group is um funded
[2:33:45] privately up until now taking donations.
Um, we've taken this the step of
[2:33:52] retaining an attorney. We've got a court
date in Vernon County that speaks to the
[2:33:58] use of eminent domain in a project such
as this. It's massive. Is it needed?
[2:34:04] that's going to be debated in the court
system with the various lawyers. So,
[2:34:10] I'll just leave that up to your own. Um,
you know, we feel that that the use of
[2:34:14] eminent domain on our farms isn't
appropriate. So,
[2:34:20] and I should say farms, our properties,
homes.
[2:34:23] » We've got a lot of different vacant land
owners.
[2:34:27] » Can you give a little bit of detail on
what eminent domain is used for?
[2:34:36] Why? Yeah. Why?
>> So, you know, in generally speaking,
[2:34:43] eminent domain is used for the public
good and and I think that's why this uh
[2:34:49] issue has spilled over into the public
forums. You know, you might be sitting
[2:34:53] here thinking, why is this the city
council's um but I I think this has
[2:34:59] opened a huge can of worms as far as
what is the appropriate use of eminent
[2:35:03] domain in situations such as this if
it's for a data center, you know, and
[2:35:08] our group doesn't want to get into this
whole. Our premise is the last 20 years
[2:35:14] our rates or our usage has declined four
to 4% stayed around that. Now, if this
[2:35:21] thing gets built, everybody in this room
will be required to pay for that. And I
[2:35:27] think that's the larger issue that we're
trying to shed some light on. You know,
[2:35:32] I'm not here to cry a SAB story about
our members and our individual, although
[2:35:37] we are very concerned. We're directly
impacted and then we would be stuck
[2:35:43] paying for this. But I think the larger
community would see that you know the
[2:35:48] use of eminent domain on on projects
such as these will be required to pay
[2:35:54] for.
>> Do we get anything from that payment?
[2:36:00] » So that's that's also up for debate. And
uh I think um the community outreaches
[2:36:06] like the town of Genanoa, you know,
they've sat through the presentations
[2:36:12] uh utility tax, you could get into all
these different various things. They
[2:36:16] have not seen any benefit. Therefore,
their opposition to the proposal. I
[2:36:22] think Vernon County with the
presentation and their thoughts, they
[2:36:28] haven't seen any benefit to the county.
I can't speak for the state. I know as
[2:36:34] members of the coalition, there's no
benefit to us on the use of eminent
[2:36:40] domain.
>> Thank you.
[2:36:43] » And I just want to uh iterate here on um
when the when a company came comes in
[2:36:50] and uses eminent domain for the quote
unquote public good. Um what's happening
[2:36:55] is they're building the transmission
line and then the cost of that project
[2:37:00] is uh is actually going back and being
paid for by the rateayers as a whole. So
[2:37:06] anybody who gets an electricity bill uh
is paying for these projects and that is
[2:37:11] uh at the return of roughly 10% per year
for the life of the project and
[2:37:17] sometimes that's 20 years sometimes
that's up to 60 years. So 10% per year
[2:37:24] for the foreseeable future is being paid
back to the company that developed the
[2:37:30] project by you and you and you and me
and all of us.
[2:37:36] And many of us are looking around saying
we didn't need the project in the first
[2:37:41] place. Why are you uh overdeveloping
these lines? Um so uh keep that in mind
[2:37:48] as we think about uh standing up uh in
solidarity and saying we don't need
[2:37:54] these projects. Um next slide please.
[2:38:00] Uh and these are just an explanation of
the the people and the organizations
[2:38:04] that are doing some of this work. Um CAM
765 that is a coalition against Marbel
[2:38:09] that is Tim. Uh no 765 line. I represent
that group here today. Um, we have uh a
[2:38:17] lot going on right now, especially with
the launch of the the Becky project. Uh,
[2:38:21] and then new coalitions are forming. Um,
and you will continue to see this issue
[2:38:26] in the uh in the news. Um, next slide,
please.
[2:38:34] Uh, so, you know, Vernon County has uh
has passed its resolution um opposing
[2:38:39] the line back in uh in March. uh and a
number of other towns uh have these
[2:38:44] opposition resolutions on the books um
and many others are pursuing these uh
[2:38:49] pursuing these right now. And so I
encourage uh encourage Veroa to uh
[2:38:55] consider uh joining the ranks and I
think that's the last slide.
[2:39:02] Oh, nope. Uh
uh here's here's some action you can
[2:39:06] take. Of course, I'd be an an awful uh
nonprofit member here if I didn't say
[2:39:12] here's the actions we can take. Um these
projects, this project is being built as
[2:39:16] a as a done deal by any developer that
you speak with. Uh we see it as not a
[2:39:20] done deal. Um so join us uh and please
um
[2:39:27] consider passing a resolution. Thank
you.
[2:39:32] » Thank you.
So,
[2:39:36] we'll open up item 18, final period for
public comment on item the presentation
[2:39:42] from 17 that we just heard of. If
anybody wants to come forward with
[2:39:46] public comment on this, either online or
in person, please do so.
[2:39:55] Sarah, do we have anyone online? Uh,
there's a few people online. I don't see
[2:40:00] them unmuting, but that would be what
you do. you'd unmute or put your hand
[2:40:04] up. It's one of the actions you can do
through Zoom.
[2:40:10] I don't see anything.
>> Okay.
[2:40:13] » All right. We do not have anybody. So,
we'll move on to item 19, discussion
[2:40:17] with possible action on a resolution
opposing the Marbel 765 KV project. And
[2:40:23] we have that resolution
drafted. This has gone to George and
[2:40:29] Stephanie.
Um, this is a resolution similar to what
[2:40:33] has been put in front of other um
others on the list, Vernon County, etc.,
[2:40:42] and has been modified to be more clearly
related and specifically related to why
[2:40:50] the city of Veroqua
[2:40:54] would be interested in passing this. I
make a motion we pass the resolution
[2:40:58] opposing Marvel 765 KV project. We've
got a motion by Cindy.
[2:41:05] » I'll second it.
>> Todd Kirking the second. Any further
[2:41:08] discussion?
[2:41:11] All in favor?
>> Any opposed?
[2:41:16] Motion carries.
>> All right. Item 20, payment of the
[2:41:21] bills.
>> I make a motion we pay the bills.
[2:41:23] » I don't second it.
[2:41:27] Roll call, please.
[2:41:33] » Okay, Seth.
>> Hi,
[2:41:36] » AJ.
>> Hi,
[2:41:37] » Ty Kirking.
>> Hi,
[2:41:39] » Kyle.
>> Hi,
[2:41:40] » Todd Spaith.
>> Hi,
[2:41:41] » Cindy.
>> Hi,
[2:41:43] » John.
>> Hi,
[2:41:44] » Tanya. And Steve,
>> hi. Before we make a motion to adjurnn,
[2:41:48] I just want to point out that
the differences between these things
[2:41:54] that we just talked about is that
there's been a lot of time put into
[2:41:58] organizing and getting to a resolution
to educate people like us.
[2:42:05] If we believe in the aha moment we all
just had about where our public dollars
[2:42:10] are going, which is not to public
schools fully as it is shown on a tax
[2:42:16] bill. We need to care enough to say that
we want to approve and recognize that
[2:42:21] city hall staff are already working on
this because people are calling
[2:42:26] because there is a referendum for our
schools and there's declining enrollment
[2:42:29] and challenges from
places we can't control.
[2:42:35] that I encourage us all to take control
of what we can do and I am saying this
[2:42:39] out of frustration however also
encouragement that we focus on what we
[2:42:45] can do here together and that if we want
to see a resolution I hope that people
[2:42:49] will know that I want to work on that
and if someone wants to work on that
[2:42:53] with me I will volunteer my time towards
that in the name of public service
[2:43:00] because I believe in transparency and in
dollars going into places where
[2:43:04] accountability is upheld and
transparency follows that money. And I
[2:43:10] just want to make that a clear statement
as we close this out. So, thank you for
[2:43:16] being participatory in a long meeting
and taking on things that I'm sorry that
[2:43:21] we all collectively have to deal with at
this level because they're not being
[2:43:26] legislated on in a way that they need to
be. So, thank you for bearing with and
[2:43:31] if anybody wants to make a motion for
adjournment, please do so.
[2:43:34] » Steve, I make a motion we adjourn.
[2:43:39] » All right, motion and a second. All in
favor? I I
[2:43:42] » Okay, we are adjourned.