All right. Now that everyone is here, um
I'd like to call this meeting to order
on July 22nd at 6:03 p.m.
» public participation. Ann, did we get
anything?
>> We did not.
We just for um just to let you know,
Susan Aldo is here. She's sitting in my
office. She works in the water
department. She's actually the one who's
sending out all the July bills right
now. So, she's just sitting in. No
problem.
All right, we got some minutes to
approve, too. I did, one of the notes I
did make, I think we just got to change
the dates on um one of the minutes to
the 27th of May, I believe.
I don't know if anyone else caught
anything else they wanted changed on
those.
>> Chris, I caught just one thing. I think
>> on the I think it was the second set of
minutes where it referenced the
abatement request. It may have been the
first set. I can't remember. One of them
it says that the spigot was off for an
extended period of time. I think it
meant to say the spigot was on for an
extended period of time.
>> Yeah.
>> So that's that was my only change.
>> Okay.
So the May 18th minutes, I believe that
reference the um abatement is the
correct date, right? So we can we could
uh entertain a a motion to approve those
minutes.
>> So moved.
>> All in favor?
>> I motion carries 30.
And then Oh, and oh, I'm sorry. I should
have um corrected that too. just with
that correction on on left on for the
spigot like Elena noted.
And then the second set of uh minutes we
have is from May 27th with the corrected
date. I don't know if there was any uh
corrections anyone would want that or
they noticed.
>> I didn't have any comments on that one.
>> Neither did I. Okay. Same.
>> Okay.
>> I'll make a motion to approve.
I'll second.
>> Oh, that's okay.
>> All in [clears throat] favor? I
>> I.
>> Motion carries. 30.
>> Okay.
All right. Item number four, irrigation
and abatement discussion.
Would like to kick it off?
>> I'll go with that one. So um
we are due
to review irrigation second meters the
outdoor moratorum um again this season
and what we wanted to do today was kind
of start the conversation by basically
having a kickoff um and I'll explain you
know some of the things that you know
we're thinking of on this end uh in a
second but um if you go back to uh when
Ann and I, it feels like forever ago,
but um the first town council meeting in
June uh when we were in there, we got a
couple of interesting questions um
towards the end, you know, about um the
rate setting process and then, you know,
we were talking about the discount and
uh it was raised, you know, one of the
things of I think with anything, you
know, the the way that the fiscal
constraints and things are, you know,
are we doing, you know, what is
considered I guess I'll paraphrase but
you know average or or common uh in this
universe as as far as you know uh costs
fees you know different program pieces
uh and whatnot and um it was actually
mentioned on whether or not we've ever
evaluated
uh the discount and whether that should
be something that should ultimately be
brought up again um and discussed as far
as you know should that apply across the
board uh should that be, you know,
limited in certain ways? Is there some
sort of eligibility criteria, you know,
that we should look at, you know,
because basically we've just been going
on since I can remember um where that
was applied across the board. So, when
we started, you know, getting the wheels
spinning um on this topic,
we were thinking about, you know, kind
of the same thing. So um Chris to your
point one of the things that we've
altered now every time that we start you
know presenting you know our rate
package and getting that conversation
going is you had made the suggestion uh
a few years ago now I think at this
point it was really beneficial to you to
see that you know comparison slide with
everything kind of total together so you
could see you know the big impact with
all the pieces put together. So with all
those things in mind, we wanted to get
you all together and kind of talk about
you know as we go down this road uh and
there'll be a couple things that we'll
kind of review um in parallel to each
other. So if you remember you know we
had done some work on um a billing
dispute policy um some pool abatement
stuff and then obviously irrigation but
we wanted to you know kind of plant the
seed uh to you guys and say
you know typically we've taken the
approach with the the irrigation piece
where we've kind of taken a bunch of
hypothetical scenarios and trying to
benchmark you know here's what a lot of
participation may look like and you know
how things from the financial standpoint
may or may not change. you know, here's
what we consider sort of like your
mid-tier, you know, participation, and
then here is a scenario where the
participation rate is relatively high.
We wanted to see, you know, or at least,
you know, have the kickoff conversation
to see if there's anything else that
anybody may want to see different this
time around rather than kind of going
through um a little bit of the same, you
know, repeat process that we've seen
before.
um you know, is there any different data
or the way things are presented that
might make us
feel more informed when it comes time to
ultimately make a recommendation to the
council? Um you know, we'll obviously
have the I'll call it the foundational
things like you know, regulatory
compliance will be one of the things we
looked at. If you remember last time,
not only do we run the financial piece,
but we took a look at, you know, what is
a policy related to participation might
look like with this. Um, so you have the
regulatory piece that we want to make
sure that we touch on, you know, and
different things like, you know, your
property is up to code with plumbing and
different things like that. But we
really wanted to see or, you know, get
creative if there are any other, you
know, um, pieces or nuances to this that
we think that we should explore.
um you know outside of kind of what
we've already done. And if that's not
the case, that's totally fine, too. We
just want to make sure that there are
any stones that we want to turn over uh
that we don't get too far down the road
uh on one path versus the other, you
know, so we don't pision pigeon hole
ourselves. So, that's kind of where we
were thinking uh about tonight is to try
to kick that off, you know, and at least
get the wheels turning on that. Um, and
then at some point in time, uh, after,
um, you know, a little bit of back and
forth or whatever we decide to do
tonight, um, we could come up with
whatever our date might be, try to put a
benchmark, uh, on the calendar to say,
okay, you know, by X date, we want our
base data to start looking at, and then
start working it from there. And then
you know we can go through the process
of taking the first sit and kneading
that into you know whatever it might
materialize to get to the point where
you know there's a comfortability with
decision- making. So um that's what
we're hoping to intend to do today. Um
but u I will leave it up to the board
the group um whatever you folks may
think not think comments questions
concern uh we're all ears. uh we're just
trying to narrow down the lane that
we're going to run in and you know get
you folks what you might need um to be
comfortable with whatever the
conversation may take us next.
>> So I have a question on what you said
right at the start about the discount
program. I think you know my thoughts
that I love the discount program. I
think it is um basically just a
feel-good way of getting people to pay
their bills quickly. Um whereas if you
took away the discount program the cost
of the bills would be essentially the
same um as with the discount if that's
how most people are paying the bills
like if that's the revenue that we need
and we're collecting it with the
discount program in place then then you
know in essence we are um we'd be paying
the same amount it just wouldn't be
called a discount anymore. Um but my
biggest question is you mentioned like
should there be eligibility criteria. Do
you have anything in mind that would
like take somebody out of the running
for getting the discount?
>> No, I don't. And I my my own personal
opinion I kind of I align basically with
where you are, Elena. Um it's not
broken. We haven't touched it. Why fix
it? Right. But I think, you know, at
least having that brief conversation at
that time kind of got us thinking like
maybe we need to think a little bit more
outside the box than we normally do to
kind of make sure that, you know, we're
vetting everything that we can. Um, we
don't have anything in mind really. Um,
you know, there's no
predetermined preconceived notions, uh,
anything like that. I mean, you know,
we've heard, we hear it, I'm sure you
folks hear it. I know you definitely see
it uh in in your daytoday uh Monday
through Friday. All the differing
opinions depend on what side you might
be on uh with this really. You know,
I'll speak for myself. I'm pretty sure
Ann aligns with me too. Um we fall right
in line with you know, it's the
community's decision. It's you know, you folks of the board that is kind of
like we vet this through. Uh you have a
different contact base than what we do.
So you may hear things, see things,
experience things that are different
than what we may what or we may assume.
Uh and then ultimately the town council
is the next level up from that. So we
just want to make sure that we're
open-minded to anything that we think
may be beneficial to explore, not
explore. You know, it could be just we
know that we don't want to go direction
X because we feel very strongly that,
you know, that's not going to be
something that's, you know, an efficient
use of our time and that's great, too.
We just want to make sure that it's all
out there and if there's anything that
anybody particularly wants to see, do
experience or not. Um
that we know about, you know, that and
we're talking about that early. That way
we don't get too far ahead and wish that
we could go back or have to pivot. And
you know, what we don't want to have to
do is have a bunch of meetings where,
you know, we're not using your time, you
know, efficiently. So, anything that we
could do to kind of
help that is really what we're seeking.
I guess there's a really long way of
answering a question, but
>> yeah, I kind of went through the the
wheels spinning as you were talking
before about what eligibility criteria
you could even consider. And I thought,
well, you know, if you have like leans
on past bills or something, maybe you're
not eligible. But then I was thinking,
well, those might be the people who need
the discounts the most, so you don't
want to necessarily go down that road.
And then I thought, you know, maybe it's
people who like set up for automatic
payment online so that you're guaranteed
that you get the payment like the day
after the bill comes out or something.
But then I thought, well, that could be
construed as being favor as favoring
younger people, people who are more
computer savvy, maybe not as senior
friendly. Um, so then the only thing I
could think of that like maybe could
make somebody ineligible is if they've
been assessed like a tampering fee or
something like or or if they don't have
a new meter and we're trying to get or
like if they have estimated reads and
they won't let us in the house for a new
meter. Like maybe there are some really
kind of oddball cases that are probably
few and far between where we would say
somebody wasn't eligible. But then
that's probably a lot of work for not a
lot of benefit.
Yeah, I I agree. I like that thinking
because I was trying to think too like I
can't think of anybody that would be
ineligible, but I I liked where you went
with all three scenarios and and I agree
with all of them actually. I mean that
would be the only one I could think of.
I didn't even think of that. So I think
that's a great point, right? Like if
which you know they need to update a
meter and they're not then, you know,
maybe that's one way to motivate them to get it updated. But I agree with the
others as well. You don't necessarily
want to penalize anyone for doing
autopay because we like that they're
doing autopay. Um, so yeah. No, I I 100%
agree and I do also agree with the
discount. You know, you hate to kind of
take it away and I my understanding is
most other towns do it. I have
properties in other towns and they do
the same. You get a discount for paying
early. Um, I will say I think the
discount's a little smaller than ours.
Um, but I also and I don't I should
probably know this. What is our discount
for paying early? I actually don't know
what it is.
>> Uh 10%.
>> 10%. Okay, that's great. Um and I'd also
say to, you know, we have that I' I'd
hate to kind of give that up at this
stage too, right? Like if there's some
other reason we need money, then maybe
we can reduce it to 5%. Like if we have
a shortfall, maybe that's where in the
future we can say, "Okay, now it's 5%."
But I definitely think we should keep a
discount uh as well.
I I agree there too guys in all valid
good points and I think with the
discount too I don't know if it's like a
mental thing and in a in a good way
where people visually see that and like
oh wow you know I'm saving money even if
they aren't I do think you know from my
standpoint from like the work I do over
the years and collecting money it does
help collect money believe it or not too
it gives an incentive you know I want to
keep paying my bill I want the discount
So there is a couple ways to look at it
too and I do think those are all valid
points and we definitely should um keep
that discount for now.
>> Yeah, I'll just let me backtrack for a
second. I think you know everybody
thinks the same. I think hearing that
like I said at that time was like oh
maybe everything needs to be taken a
look you know maybe we got to look at
everything again anyway. Let's not
assume anything moving forward. So, we
want to make sure before we take a step
that, you know, the gears are turning
and, you know, we're not just assuming
again that if there's anything that may
be appropriate to bring up, not bring
up, like I said, you know, let's throw
it out there and run through it and see
what happens because anything is
possible, I think, at that point. Um,
>> do you have any chronic problems with
people who like won't let you swap out a
meter or who you're chronically
estimating reads or something? And do
you have other penalties for those
folks?
>> There is uh generally we try everything
we can to not have to do that. Um I
would think that you know if we get to
the point where we're looking at
policies and things like that, one of
the things you know to make you be able
to um participate in this should it be
reversed or whatnot. We would probably
our preference would be at least on our
side that you know whatever um domestic
meter you have and or alternate meter
whatever that could end up being is able
to be uh remotely read. So you know it's
up to date. Um and that will naturally
you know someone that's interested in
that that may have a meter that you know
we prefer to replace. Obviously that's a
great way to perform that intervention
at that time you know they benefit we
benefit. So we probably want to include
that as something you know that you know
under the eligibility criteria you know
that you know that is one of those
things that we would say you know you
either need to be able to do this or um
you know you have to pre-arrange for us
to get you to that point and that you
can move on through you know whatever
follows behind that. So,
>> is that a big hassle for
um and what did you say the woman's name
is who's sitting with you?
» Susan.
Is that a big hassle for Susan if
there are now a handful of accounts that
don't get the discount? Do those bills
have to be manually produced
differently?
>> No, we can actually fix them in the
system. No, we can we actually can
charge them a fee for not swapping out
their meter.
>> So it's not
>> Would that be a cleaner way of doing it
then to do a fee rather than taking away
the discount?
>> That I believe so.
» I think so. The way that the rates are
programmed in the billing software, the
discount is all based on time. Um
>> Okay.
>> You bring up an interesting point
though. If you do have something that is
what you might not consider the most
upto-date um should that be a
consideration where you know
maybe you're not eligible for whatever
benefits are out there that's I've never
thought of that before until right now.
>> We uh we did find out that you can offer
a discount by tier.
So you could take the discount away from
tier four or tier three, but still offer
it for one and two. I'm not suggesting
that as an idea. I'm just saying we
recently were learning some things at
Ununice and the program does allow you
to do that.
>> That's really interesting. I mean, I
don't know. That would be a big hit for
those tier four users to not have that
discount.
>> Plus, they wouldn't let anyone use water
the last two days if they were going to
go into tier four. Like they've been
[laughter] shutting the water off at the
uh
>> Yeah. street. But yes, it is. I'm just
throwing it out there because we we had
learned it in the last couple weeks.
>> Yeah, that is interesting.
>> So, I mean, should we consider like a
manual read fee for the meters that
where people haven't been willing to
swap them out?
>> So, that is that is there now. Um
>> Oh, it is. Okay.
>> Yeah, there's the ability to do that.
Um, you know, some of the other things,
just to put some context on it, that
have been looked at throughout the
years, um, at one point in time during
the 90s, they there was a look to see
whether or not, um,
Wakefield should entertain like a
commercial residential split. At the
time, uh, back then, the board of
selectmen decided not to do that. They
thought that it wasn't going to be, uh,
businessfriendly.
Um, and we've never really
entertained that, you know, much more of
a brief conversation just because the
commercial base is so small. Um, you
know, things like that. Um, one of the
things that you probably could consider
if we were looking at irrigation and
outdoor use. Um, I know some communities
will
limit, you know, participation to, you
know, a meter up to X size.
um you know anything you know above and
beyond whatever they consider is you
know their threshold for change um
eligibility potentially changes you know
at that point um you know there's a
whole bunch of different you know pieces
to it and I think every community that
you look at does things relatively the
same but just slightly different enough
um
you know where it could be interesting
to compare apples to apples on
» I I think the um commercial versus
residential rate and maybe we've talked
about this at one point before but that
gets into a big debate over what is
truly residential versus what's truly
commercial
>> and like you know if there's a large
apartment complex with a that's owned by
some giant property management company
um you know that's a residential
building but it's it's being run as a
business. So what is it? And I think
that that argument may not be worth that
hassle may not be worth the whatever
you'd gain from it. I mean, ideally, I
guess the, you know, for the residents
of Wakefield, they would probably want
commercial to be charged a little bit
more because it is a business, but at
the end of the day, it would probably be
a minimal impact on people's water bills
and a big time sync of people arguing
about what's residential and what's
commercial.
>> Yes. Like some of the other things, you
know, that can be thought about as we go
on this process, too. like I'll use um
our neighbors to the to the west um
within the last year and a half maybe
two years I forget exactly how long it's
been um they were a similar setup to
Wakefield uh and reverse but what they
did was because as we know you know when
you take these financial
projections so like every cubic foot
that we take out of sewer then you know
alters the sewer rate to whatever degree
um they decided two at the time. Um, and
I'm pretty sure it's still functioning
that way now. I'd have to confirm it.
They were going to reverse and they were
going to cap, you know, at least the
first phase of participation at a
certain number. That way, you know,
there was this they could dictate the
pace a little bit, kind of slow the roll
out. That way, you know, not that it was
probably ever feasible to to happen like
that, but you didn't have 1,500 2,000
properties all at one time. now all of a
sudden
swing the rate structure in a way that
was going to take you know more you know
drastic or you know more volatile rate
action I guess to to counteract whatever
that may be it might eliminate like 250
or something like that but you know
that's something that um we can keep at
the back of our heads as you know we
move forward and kind of review all this
as well um so you know literally the sky
is the limit there's nothing that's off
the table as far as
at least just getting the words out, you
know, saying it out loud and seeing if
it's something, you know, that might be
worth exploring in more depth or might
not be.
>> Do you think capping it may incentivize
people to do it faster?
Like it might have the reverse effect
because people are like they might not
keep the program after they do these
first 250 and I want to get in while I
can so I'm going to fast track.
>> That's a good It could
>> I have no idea.
>> Yeah. You never. Yeah. Right. Like
almost like someone sees it as like it's
a sale and they got to take advantage of
it while it's there.
>> Right. Right. Because they're worried it
might go away again,
>> right?
>> You know, since it was gone for so long.
I have no idea. But that's that's almost
like the psychology of how I would think
of it if I wanted it.
Now, I think before, so the last time we
did this and we put together some of
like the
some of the financials to it, I think
the three scenarios we used, so we used
like a low-end scenario where out of the
8,000 customers and change, uh, we
picked, you know, 500 um, of the heavier
users. So we what we ended up doing was
taking the what we call non-watering
bills which is your winter bills versus
you know your seasonal fluctuation. What
we did was we picked a benchmark and
anybody they exceeded a 30% increase. We
said this person or these persons are
probably doing some sort of watering or
something outside where you know their
habits have changed now they're
consuming more. So the first batch that
we took was, you know, a sample set of
500 of those properties to say, here's
who we think is doing this. Here's 500
of them.
Should that be the case, you know,
here's what the fluctuation breaks down
to from a dollars and cents standpoint,
you know, and how it counteracts the
water and sewer enterprises.
Do we think 5,000 is I mean, excuse me,
500
is that an appropriate
sample size on the low end? So, I think
what we end up doing is we did 500,
a,000 and either 1500 or 2,000. I forget
off the top of my head, but
where we only ended up with the high end
is, you know, by basically surveying
everybody around and making some phone
calls to just ask, you know, out of your
customer base, how many customers, you know, generally
take advantage of, you know, this type
of thing. Um, and the mean at that time
was, you know, about 12 to,400. So,
we're a little north of that. But um I
don't know if we want to see something a
sample size smaller than that. Do we
want to see bigger than that? Um
I honestly felt like we really vetted
this last year. I think we came up with
draft language of like criteria that
they would have to meet. And I know we
went we went back and forth on some
documents with wording and all. And I
think I felt like I honestly I don't
remember exactly all the details, but I
remember feeling very comfortable that
we had done our due diligence and that
if we went in that direction, if the
council decided they wanted to go in
that direction, we felt sort of
prepared. Um, I think the roll out would
be fairly slow only because
it's a it's a significant effort to get
a plumber to come put in the new meter,
you know, separate out your outdoor use
into, you know, a separate line inside.
Um,
you know, it's not like it's not like
people can just come down, pick up the
second meter, and then it's done. Um, so
I feel like there's going to be a wave
of people who've always wanted to do it,
who water a lot, who are going to sign
on right away, and then I think it would
just be like dribbs and drabs as, you
know, houses turn over or new houses are
built or
that that's what I would think. And I
mean, I I get that it it would raise the
sewer rate for everybody else. Um,
but I do think it's fair not to charge
people for sewer. Um,
if they're not using the sewer. So,
yeah, I think I feel like we kind of
went all around with this last time and
I thought we ended up in a pretty good
spot.
So, what I would anticipate is to take
the draft language that you're just
talking about, send it back now that,
you know, we've kind of refreshed a
little bit and got this on the mind and
then we can as we reread it, we can
think of things like, oh, maybe we
should have done this. One of the things
I think now is is obviously more of a
thing um than it was at the last time we
looked at this. ADUs now are a thing.
Um, that's reality. So you know how is
that handled? um you know if an ADU has
a separate you know meter account and
you know we have like a duplex situation
can each pro you know
is should there be some consideration to
if that's the case you know is there one
irrigation system per property um do you
allow each unit you know whether it be
the the main address and the ADU um to
be able to take advantage of it so those
are kind of some of the little like
things to iron out but I think um That's
a little bit put in the cart before the
horse. I think we need to get the
baseline down first and then we can kind
of layer some of that stuff, you know,
into some of the things that we think
about.
>> Joe, [clears throat] uh, one one thing
for everybody too. Um,
and I might be going backwards here, but
before I forget, um, my thought when you
guys I know you're replacing a lot of
pipe in Wakefield. How has that been
going of getting response from residents
so you can like change everything out
you're supposed to? is like is that
being held up at all?
>> No, it's actually um kudos to the
citizens of Wakefield. It's going
actually goes quite well. I think um
>> Oh, good.
>> You know, there's always some someone
that may be a little concerned. They
have an older home and they think their
plumbing, you know, they're questioning
whether or not, you know, hooking up to
a spigot or something is is going to do
them more harm than good. Um but, you
know, we always have our staff with
whoever the contractors in there with
them. Um, and we'll really bend over
backwards to make sure that there's
little to no impact as possible.
Generally, the way that these projects
have been going, uh, once the water gets
done, the sewer's already been done, the
drainage is done, so the next thing on
the way is the road. Um, so they're more
excited to see all this get out of the
way so the street can get finished and
we can leave them alone for a decade or
two.
>> So, you know,
so good with that. No, I was just
curious because that was like another
thing, you know, could you look at that,
you know, taking away their discount if
they're not responding and letting you
change those pipes, but if you're not
having an issue, that's not nothing to
worry about then.
>> No, like I said, I mean, maybe it's an
extra conversation or two, but there's
never an there's no real, at least that
comes to mind, no real like Hatfield
McCoy contentious standoff or anything
like that.
>> Okay.
>> So, that we don't have to worry about
that. And then um too like just in
discussion because as Elena said too, I
know we we kind of did go through a lot
of this and ironed it out uh last year
in terms of say like the second meter.
um if it does get to that point and
there's more push or we want to review
it more I think even some type of data
you know make it you know plain for the
average citizen if if we start going
down that road of second uh meters like
this is what it could cost potentially
to the average you know water user some
of you know easy language for people to
understand because you know dollars
matter to people and they're going to
want to see it so it would save us
hassle too
>> and one of the components to that Chris
too will obviously be you'll naturally
have the discussion of you know
should the moratorum change what should
the rate structure be or not be for that
does it follow the same thing as the
domestic side or you know is it some
communities consider it you know more of
a luxury so um maybe it doesn't drop as
low as tier one or tier too, but it it
kind of lands somewhere in like the
three range, right? So, that's one of
the things as we're doing all that,
we'll have to figure out um should
something like that be in place, you
know, what is really the offset. How
much does this to the closest that you
can be, right? There's going to be some
margin of error because there's a lot of
unknown, you know, as far as
participation goes. And we have no idea.
we can guess, you know, when you look at
this stuff all the time, tendencies
are pretty rhythmic as far as the
pattern they are for a lot of people.
So, you kind of have an idea of what
could be expected, but you never know.
As soon as somebody turns the faucet,
everything changes. So, um you but to
try to get as close as you can with that
so you know your margin of error, your
deviation isn't too big is where we're
trying to get to.
>> Okay. Thank you.
Joe, I don't remember on that note if we
landed on a recommendation last time as
to what tier the minimum tier should be
for the the second meter. I can't
remember if we talked about it or not,
but I do like the idea of like it's
should start at least at tier 2 and I
don't think anybody should be paying
tier one rates for non-essential water.
I don't think we got too far into it. Uh
other than typically if history what
we've mentioned were is that you know
should the town council um elect to um
I guess at this point go against what
the previous versions of the advisory
board's recommendation were. Um we had
always requested the time to be able to
at least take a peek at the rate uh a
little closer. Um, but I think, you
know, this is the 20th time I think
we've done this in the last 16 or 17
years. It probably makes sense to just
say what what do we think this should be
and included with it, right? To get that
as well-rounded and as all-encompassing
as it can be. That way, you know,
there's no surprises should a decision
get made and, you know, we're looking at
implementing something new,
something that doesn't come out after
the fact and say, "Oh, yeah, I am by the
way." Now, you know, the rate structure
is going to be this. It's get it out, be
transparent with it, and you know, let
that all be part of all the criteria
that goes to making that decision.
>> So, if the council were to vote on that
this year, would it would our
recommendation be that it doesn't take
effect until fiscal 28
since we've already kind of set our
recommendation for the fiscal 27 rate or
we've already we're already in fiscal
27. So, would that be a 28?
I would think um and correct me if I'm
wrong if anybody thinks this timeline is
off, but between now and sometime
early late fall, let's say um
DBW, the board, we've done what we can
do. We're comfortable with whatever the
package may look like, then present that
to the town council. Um, and I would say
that the recommendation would be, you
know, don't the start date to this would
be I'd probably say at the earliest July
1, 2027, just to give us the ability to
go through the whole uh rate setting
process. Um, get everything in place
that we need to to be able to take
applications for service and things like
that. Um, you know, that way we don't,
you know, hit the starting gun and then
find out that, you know, we weren't as
squared away as we needed to be. were
scrambling to get this thing to roll
out. So, I'd say by the earliest July
one, I don't know if I don't think you
probably need to push it any further
than that should there be a change. Um,
but I guess I won't know to complete
comfort level on answering that until we
see, you know, what it actually entails.
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Yeah. No, I I agree with everything um,
you know, that that we were talking
about, you know, thank you Elena again
for that. I I think it does make sense
where I I also feel pretty good that we
ironed it out pretty good last year. So,
I guess just kind of revisiting the
draft we did. Um,
and I don't have a pool, but I'm just
thinking I don't know how pools would
fall into this as well. Obviously, they
use a lot of water in the springtime to
fill their pools, but uh, you know, I
don't know how that would work in
whether it would qualify or not. So
that's an interesting So that has been a
practice that has been going on uh good,
bad or indifferent. It's always just
been something that's been offered um by
the town to folks. If you have a pool,
you have a building permit for your
pool, it's it's installed legally. Uh
they'll take the dimensions of your pool
and for a fill um the sewer charge will
be deducted from that. I one of the
things uh that may or may not be on the
table depending on you know where this
lands is if there is a reversal to the
moratorum does the pool abatement uh
practice that's been long-standing go
away because someone now has the means
to set themselves up to be able to just
automatically have that abatement happen
through the other program function. Um
so depending on what A does might shift
B one way or the other. That's why, you
know, not to overload everybody, but it
kind of makes sense to start thinking
about these things alto together because
they are nuanced and overlap a little
bit here and there and the way one goes
could in influence the other one. So
>> that's interesting. I actually wasn't
aware of that and again probably because
I don't have a pool but um
I guess that certainly leads to the
argument. Now I do have an irrigation um
as as the group knows you know so that's
interesting where the pool gets the
discount but the irrigation doesn't
right so neither are going in the source
system um so I guess that just that
brings that question up too and maybe
helps the cause for a second meter yeah
>> so just um just on the pole abatement
for a second um they're not offered it
every year we do it for like a new liner
or if it goes below half or it's a new
liner or a brand new pool.
>> A new liner or a brand new pool. So,
it's not like we're just doing it
because you want to top off your pool.
>> Gotcha. Good to know. Thank you.
» It seems to me like there's no harm in
keeping that for people who have a pool
but don't opt to do the second meter.
>> Um
>> because it the program is already in
place and it seems easy to administer.
um
>> you're really accomplishing the same
goal at the end of the day, right?
>> Yeah. And then if you have the second
meter, then you no longer have to
request the abatement or you wouldn't
qualify for it because you're already
not not getting charged sewer for it,
>> right? Someone at some point must have
had a soft spot for pool owners or had
one in the queue.
>> Someone on the board had a pool
>> record.
I don't think you'll I don't think
you'll ever find that in meeting
minutes, but it could have been in the
back of someone's head where they were
[laughter] making the decision.
>> No pool here. I know that.
Oh,
>> closest thing to be is upset in the rain
today, [laughter]
>> right? I think the only other thing that
we didn't talk about that is on my mind
is um Melrose does the if you don't have
a second meter, you pay sewer as 90% of
your water usage. And if you do have a
second meter, you say pay sewer as 100%
of your water usage. And that's based on
the sort of industry average of how much
water people tend to use outside when
they don't have irrigation systems. Just
sort of your like non like the amount of
water you use a dose doesn't end up in
the sewer. Either water that you drink
or water that you use to water your
plants or whatever. Um the industry
averages something like eight or 9%. So
10% is a nice round number. Um, what I
like about that is it mitigates a little
bit of the change. If we were to
suddenly go to having the second meters,
it makes it so that people who don't get
them, their sewer rate doesn't jump
quite as high. And I think it's also
very defensible with industry data. So,
I like that system that we have in
Melrose and I would advocate that we
consider that.
>> We can include that in uh the
projections as an option to see it. I
don't think I know we've talked about it
before. I don't think we've actually
ever laid it out, but um
>> yeah, that'd be great. Thank you.
>> Whatever we put together, we'll we'll
include that so we can at least see it
and talk it through,
>> you know, with all the numbers everyone.
>> And then I know we did this slash here
and I again I forget the details as
well, but did we I think we tried to
estimate like what the impact would be,
right, for losing that revenue, right?
And I know that's obviously something we
have to take into account as well.
>> Correct. So that's really the the
educated guess that comes out of this is
to project you know again every 100
cubic feet that comes out of sewer.
What is the impact then across the board
to sewer and then what does that mean to
the overall rate structure? Because
obviously you know choose a round number
of $100 was shifted out of you know the
revenue stream. We have to make that up
somehow. what what size what's the order
of magnitude of that impact. So that's
kind of the main premise behind you know
taking a couple sample sets to say you
know at 500 people using you know x
amount of water the value is this which
means you know the rate that we set last
year for $5 a cubic foot now turns to
$55
or you know whatever that may be. So how
do you offset that? So that'll be you
know a lot of um
the deliverable I guess at at the end of
the exercise of the projection is
getting to that point to say okay you
know how did the scale shift and does it
move to such a dramatic difference that
it gives you know apprehension um or you
know is it close enough I guess what is
the what is the margin where
you know it's it's moving too much and
then what is the margin where you know
it's demonstrated a little bit movement
But, you know, it's it's not something
that we think is unreasonable,
>> right?
» All good points, guys. This is all good
stuff.
» One thing is So, does anybody think uh
just is there anything that we think
needs to be completely off limits that
we don't want to focus any time or
attention on? Um,
as far as examining any of this or, you
know, reviewing it in more more depth as
we keep going,
is there anything that's just a
non-starter? Like, does anybody have any
strong opinions one way or the other?
You know, not to use an example, but you
know, if you know, brick building should
not get any sort of um program that
requires them getting any discount or
anything like that. Um, does anybody
have any strong feelings one way or the
other on anything that they think, you
know,
we should not focus on right away or we
should focus on right away to rule it
out?
» No, I don't.
>> No,
>> not that I can think of at the moment.
>> I mean, like, it's funny. I don't know
why this popped in my mind, and I don't
know. This is more commercial. I'm just
thinking,
you know, I I don't know. Do car washers
pay the same price as everybody else?
Um, you know, I guess we have a couple
car washes in town. I don't know. Do
they get a discount because of the abs,
you know, the high volume they use or do
we charge them more or do we change
their structure? I don't know. And it
just popped in my mind. I don't know
why, but just wanted to share it with
the group.
>> Sure. Some of those car washers might
even recycle the water.
>> They probably have some type of
>> filtration on I don't know. That's just
>> they're smart. Yeah, if they're smart,
they should. [laughter]
There is a component to that uh where
the two that I've personally been able
to do recycle a portion of the water. I
don't know if that's dictated by the
plumbing code or some regulation um or
not. I I don't know that off the top of
my head, but um I know that is a thing
and that generally does happen. Um how
effective that is I guess is another
story I couldn't even tell you. But um
you if we want to explore that more, I
don't mind digging that up to um explain
that in better detail than this.
» I'm fine either way. It was just a
curiosity, I guess.
>> It's a good point. It's worth looking
into, I guess.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And Joe, if you think of any
other uses that are odd like that that
are big users of water that doesn't end
up in the sewer necessarily. Um or maybe
that all does go to the sewer. I don't I
don't know. After it all gets recycled,
does the rest of it go to the sewer?
>> Uh I'd have to look I the last one that
was done. I'd have to look at the civil
plan to see. I think it goes to an oil
water separator and then it probably
does. Um I'm not 100% but it's it's
funny. Elena, you'll get this. So, our
agreement with the MWA is up to renew.
In the questionnaire that they send out,
you know, is do you anticipate any users
that go over 20 million cubic feet, you
know, per year? And I'm I'm think I'm
like, I don't even know what could
possibly use so much water here in
Wakefield that I would have to fill this
out and say yes. Um,
>> yeah,
>> I know data centers are a huge thing.
Um, you know, that's been
>> that's been all over the Facebook page.
>> Yeah. I don't know if that's a real Do
you know if that's a real consideration?
Because honestly, we should be
>> No.
>> It really is.
>> I hope not. But
>> I don't know. I mean, the only the only
thing I can compare it to,
>> you hear the stories about and and I'm
very elementary on this, but you hear
the stories about the Midwest and these
things taking 30 million gallons of
water a year a day or whatever it is.
We had the little one up by the not
little, I don't know, but you know, they
had the one up by the lake. Um,
I don't think they I don't think that
facility was using water to the point
where, you know, it was anything crazy.
If for some reason somebody filled out a
zoning board of appeals application or a
building permit to do that, it's
something we'd have to look at. But, uh,
I can't think of anywhere in town that
you could go where you could get that
crazy amount of water and not impact
everything across the board. I would I
would almost think that the network that
we have for the distribution system
app to a certain size isn't going to
it's just not going to support it. Um
>> I wonder and maybe this is kind of like
thinking too far ahead, but I wonder if
the um if we do go with second meters if
we should like just exclude data centers
because honestly if any like giant data
center tries to come into Wakefield and
I know you know there for some reason
the municipal gas and light board was
talking about it in a closed door
meeting. Um, so if that's something that
we think might happen, I mean, my
impression of those is that they are big
business, big money- making, you know,
so we just said right off the bat that
they don't qualify for second meters,
>> that they have to pay the sewer charge,
>> whether they're using the sewer or not.
I have no idea if the water's
evaporating or if it's going into the
sewer or what not, but I don't know. It
might be nice for us to just start right
out with that and let somebody challenge
it then.
have a business like that come in
and start using all sorts of water that
we, you know, go ahead
>> our rate payers are paying.
>> No, we can see if we could dig something
up with that. Um, it brings up an
interesting counter to that. You know,
do you look at something like that and
say
at what point have you crossed what is
reasonable and now you know you are that
you're cooling down the computer that
runs clawed or whatever they are. you
know, at what point have you are you too
big to even consider? You know, you you
bring up a good point with that.
>> Yeah, I agree there. You just, you know,
get ourselves ahead of it. the seven.
>> And honestly, maybe maybe whatever
language we have about the discount
program should say um you know any user
who uses over x amount per year will be
evaluated to see if they qualify for the
discount or something something that
gives us the opportunity to not give a
10% discount to somebody who's using
like a tenth of the water of the entire
town.
>> Who is our who is our largest water user
in town? There's a couple of commercial
properties that have 4 inch meters that
use a lot um
>> close to you.
>> What kind of industry?
>> Construction materials.
>> Um
>> okay.
>> The high school or the Galvin uh is a
big one and Ann's shaking her head so
I'm getting them right as I'm going. Um
>> Mlullen the concrete company across the
street. Who else?
>> Other than non Wakefield you know
buildings I should say. Uh, I would
imagine that um, Colonial Point
Apartments might be one of them down by
Edgewater just because it's a good size.
>> Yeah.
>> Um,
you know, things like that. But, you
know, the 8,000 and change accounts over
seven grand of that is all
your residential, you know, or largely
residential, you know.
>> So, the second meters then, I mean,
maybe we should be limiting them. We
should be calling it
outdoor water use meters
>> so that so that someone's not saying,
"Well,
>> it's indoor water use, but it's
processed water and it's not going into
the sewer and so I don't want to have to
pay for sewer." Like,
>> we don't want to get it have to get into
understanding every industry and what's
happening inside their building.
>> 100%.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Agreed.
>> Great point. So, that's kind of the you
just hit it. So that's this conversation
in a nutshell, right? So that'll be
something that we're we'll look through
what we did and then we'll look through
moving forward and you know define that,
you know, what is this for? What are we
trying to accomplish? Um
>> yeah,
>> is it outdoor watering? You know, are we
going to allow for outdoor watering
potentially and uh manufacturing that
absorbs all the water and loses its
steam or something like that? Is there a
difference? Is there not a difference?
Um I don't know at this point. I think
the trouble with those is that like then
we have to understand what process
they're actually using inside their
building,
>> right?
>> And we have to take their word for it
that like the water flowing through this
meter is all becoming steam, whereas the
water flowing through the other meter
ends up in the sewer. And I just think
that's a level of like truth checking
that we'd have to do that's way beyond
what you guys should have to be doing.
>> Yeah.
>> Just to be like the devil's advocate
kind of. But you know you mentioned
based on the num the number of
consumption um what do you think about
like meter meter size so if someone
wanted to put in an 8 inch just use an
eight we don't have any eights so it's
not going to offend anybody but somebody
wanted to say hey I have an irrigation
meter but it's going to be an 8 in you
know is do you look at something like
that and go that's way way way big you
know comparatively across the board you could be this is something that's
totally unrelatable to everything else
that's going on and outside of the the
box that any of this policy framework is trying to, you know, affect one way
or the other, you know. to do take a
peek at it like that and say, you know,
some of the criteria for being eligible
is the the connection or the metered um
the deduct meter itself, you know, can't
be larger than x amount of, you know,
inches because at that point they've
crossed the threshold where, you know,
you're not watering your back long
because you like to go outside with your
dog and your kids or whatever. It's
something totally,
you know, different. I guess one
question is though, like let's say
you're a huge condo complex or apartment
complex like the new ones up by the lake
and you want to do it for your outdoor
water,
like should they be restricted from
doing that because their meter size is
too big or or is it the meter size for
the outdoor water? And then if it's like
a reasonable size for that meter, then
it's well, but it's a deduct meter,
right? So you're you'd be going by their
main meter size. I don't know. I I feel
like outdoor indoor seems like a a much
easier distinction to me.
>> Yeah.
>> And then people aren't arguing about why
the threshold is, you know, here versus
there.
>> But I don't know, maybe Matt uh Abrahams
has a has some thoughts on that from
other towns and stuff.
» All good points. Yeah,
they did individual meters at the head
of the lake there, right? Aren't the
apartments individually metered as well
or no? I or no? I thought they did.
>> Yes, they did. Uh they did um they have
some meters in their building. We still
only build each building one bill.
>> Yeah. Okay, that's what I thought.
They branch off inside and manage their
own. Similar to like um
Oh, not the I I don't know if the gas
meters are set up that way. I won't say
that.
>> Lake Street do that. Those Lake Street
condos, don't they have something like
that? I remember from years ago. I'm
going back to my meter reading days.
>> Inside? I'm not sure. I don't think I
was ever in that one. You know,
sometimes you go by a commercial
building, you see the bank of gas meters
outside.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> The same thing but inside. in each one
of those meters and then lead to
whatever the apartment might be.
>> Yeah,
>> most most of them have a property
management company that manages that and
does the billing for them inside. But to
keep it simple on us, you know, Susan's
doing 32,000 bills a year. We don't want
to give her, you know, six or 7,000 more
because we're hitting all those. So,
>> right.
So I think at this point for me
personally I think uh Ann and I have
enough to start churning on it. Um
like I had said in the beginning way
back when I don't know if we want to set
a benchmark or at least to get a draft
of something you know to you folks which
would probably be at a minimum what we
did before uh maybe with some notes on
it um you know with some of our thoughts
and then um you know a draft of
some hypothetical scenarios at least to
take a peek at and see if it's something
that we want to work with or we want to
tweak a little bit to get us, you know,
more comfortable. Um,
say if we maybe want to shoot to do that
after Labor Day, midepptember, that'll
give us enough time. And I don't, it may
seem like a lot. I only ask at the same
time, uh, we have a pretty big trash
contract. It is just hitting the
streets. So, I'm sure we're going to get
busy with questions and things in that
nature. uh coming up at the same time
and then you know it'll give us a little
bit more time to look at the financials
too and get that to you. But
>> no, that works.
>> We're open to basically whatever.
>> That works here.
>> Yeah, sounds good to me.
» Okay. Anything else on that? Uh before
we move on.
» No, we have some homework. I'll get you
some of the other stuff to start
reviewing and uh we'll get rolling.
>> Great.
I just had a couple This is separate
from everything. It's some new business.
Just a couple questions I wanted to go
over before.
>> So, I just
>> um because I've gotten a couple
questions, so I just want to clarify it.
The new bathroom that's going down by
vets.
>> Yep.
Um, will that bathroom be open every day
or what are what are the expectations
for hours and how it's going to be
managed for security? I know we kind of
went over this before, but I I just want
a refresher because I saw a posted, you
know, the farmers market posting that
it's coming, but I want to clarify that,
you know, if that's open, that's
obviously for, you know, there's other
people that are using the field down
there. Youth softball, the girls could
use it and, you know, all sorts of
people. So that building uh is
pre-fabricated, but part of that when it
was specked out was to include
provisions for so if you come into town
hall as an example, town hall's doors um
unless unlocked function on a card
access system. So with that, there'll be
the ability to automatically unlock it
at a certain time in the morning and
then automatically lock it at a certain
time at night. Um exactly what that is
at this point. Um we don't know. We'll
have to you know review that with the
council. But I would say it'll probably
start uh open itself um early in the
morning sometime between 7 and 8 and
then uh either close at dusk or
depending on what's going on uh down at
the field. Uh we can marry that to some
of the schedules down there and
seasonally you know it could be open
later because we're using the fields.
Um, so TBD, but I would imagine at a
minimum it' probably be open from, you
know, 7 7 o'clock in the morning, 8
o'clock in the morning till dusk. Um,
and then, you know, it'd be a sin to
have the thing out there and not let,
you know, anybody using the field at
night use it. So, it'll probably marry
their schedules once it gets a little
bit closer. Um, and, you know, we'll ask
the town council, you know, to kind of
sign on to that and, you know, let us
know if they think that is something
that, you know, makes sense. Um, the one
thing with it, uh, all the utilities to
it are relatively shallow. Um, and the
sewer is actually going to be pumped so
we can, uh, get it up to the street. So,
it will be open, uh, similar to our
construction season. So, sometime
midappril, uh, once there's no threat
of, uh, the frost and the water freezing
up. Uh, and it'll probably end up
shutting down for the season sometime
around Veterans Day. um you know so to
basically only be out of service you
know we were cold months for you know
November December January February you
know give or take um some of the reason
behind that is the limitations with the
construction because we had to keep
everything you know up we couldn't get
below the frost line so
>> so it's just going to be for the you
know non-winter
it'll function actually the same as like
what's up at Landeran Field now so um
those open up once they're past the
threat of freezing them up and they stay
open and they stay in operation till up
there they stay up till Thanksgiving or
Veterans Day depending on when the game
schedules go but it'll follow pretty
much the same thing. Um if we caught
abnormally warm win you know weather in
November uh could we stretch that? Sure.
Um but once we get the threat of that
freezing up um it will ultimately you
know be shut down for the season at that
point.
>> Yeah. And and another point to that
though too and I don't know if it's
talked about or when it does but just
something that you might be able to add
to like for instance you know when
they're playing the baseball at night
you know twi league or what softball
down there you know I don't know if
there's like someone that could be in
charge for them that's going to be like
the key holder so we have there's got to
be accountability for that restroom I'm
sure you know if people are going inside
of at night we'd like to know who's in
there you know is someone going to be
responsible for opening the doors for
them like when it I'm talking like after
the automatic lock say at night you know
after dusk
>> I would think you just keep it would
just be automatically open so um there
should be CCTV on it too
>> okay good
>> as a deterrent so you know
>> there is cameras good
>> it will have all that functionality um
one of the things we did in advance of
this um there was a need based on some
of the occupancies like the civic center
picking up uh with rentals and things
like that at night we added another um
staff member on our second shift in our
buildings division. So once that thing's
in, we already have someone in place. So
we'll we'll visit that every morning
whether it's locked or not. Um make sure
that it's in the condition that can be
opened for everybody to use. And then
somebody will be there every night
making sure that you know before the
doors shut and they can't be opened
again till the timer flips back um that was put away in a state that's
ready to go. So, we'll be there a bunch
of times and then, you know, anytime the
phone rings and the request comes in
during the day to go there as well. So,
>> okay.
>> There'll be water fountain filling
stations on the front of it, too. So, I
would imagine it probably be pretty
active once it gets in.
>> Yeah.
I mean, like, you know, all the
concerns, it seems like you've addressed
them. We got cameras there. You know,
you got people watching at this
security. some of the um you know
concerns that I might have heard or even
my own that kind of certainly puts them
to bed.
And I like that it's a community
bathroom, too. It's not just for the
farmers market. And not saying that
that's what they said. I just it's just
come across like is it really only going
to be open for the farmers market? No,
of course it's a community bathroom
going to be able to use it. The
[clears throat] only the only difference
in there um specifically related to the
farmers market is the way that there's a
storage component to it. Um so we're
able to size it where there's obviously
the stuff we need from the utility
standpoint for the electrical panel and
some storage for custodial supplies and
whatnot there and some outlets and stuff
for some of the things we do. But then
there's also a little bit of room. So
their metal um sea container that they
have there uh they won't need anymore.
There'll be a separate closet only
accessible to them. Um, will they be
able to store the stuff in the back of
it?
>> I was going to ask you that. So, does
that mean the shipping containers will
be gone?
>> Yes. Yep.
>> Because I think it will look
aesthetically better as well. I know we
painted them and made them look nice. I
know. But it's still a shipping
container. [laughter]
>> Yeah. Absolutely. We put in um
we put in to see if we could get some
grant funding uh for some solar on the
roof of it. I was just about to ask
that. generate yeah to generate the
electricity for it. So
>> maybe the light department could help us
out.
>> I think we got a pretty good shot with
where we stand. Uh certainly they'll be
involved, but um I would think I'm an
optimist though, so I'll just clarify
with that. But I would think that that
is something that within the the first
year of it being open, we should be able
to achieve um without a doubt. So,
uh, before I move on to my next
question, would did anyone have anything
else to add to the community bathrooms
or anything before I go to my next
subject? I don't want to interrupt
anybody.
>> No.
>> Nope.
>> Okay.
The next thing I just wanted to to bring
up or just talk about too, um, like when
subcontractors are doing patchwork in
Wakefield for say the light department,
is there like a protocol that they got
to follow for how they, you know, is it
DPU standards that they got to follow
for when they're doing their work like
patchwork?
>> So, there is there is a standard um for
utility utility restoration. It's
docket. It's D, it's called DTE 9822.
I could send it to you. You can read it.
But there is a patching uh specification
for that. Um, you know, that is supposed
to be adhered to by the DPU. Um, there
are other times depending on what's
going on. Um, when we were doing some of
the work in the
areas off of Vernon Street, um, we knew
that right when they were done on the
heels of that that the road needed to be
completely reclaimed. Um, so we were
able to work the gas and light
department on
changing a little bit of that scope
because, you know, we were going to
destroy it. Um, and they were able to
help, you know, pay for a little bit of
the finished, you know, for their
portion of the finished mix at the end.
But yes, no, that's a long way of saying
yes, there is that. Yep. just because,
you know, and again, I'm not being
nitpicky, but you know, I know the roads
are a touch touchy subject in Wakefield
and everyone wants to see them improved,
and I know you guys have plans in place
and things that the town committed to
with grants and stuff that we have to
follow. But some of the the patchwork
being done by the subcontractors, in my
opinion, my professional opinion, I
think could be improved. I think some of
the the compacting, even the roadway
cuts could be cleaner. You know, if if
for instance the middle of a road, if
there's a crown in the middle of the
road, which obviously makes rain water
and other things go to where it needs to
go, and you cut down the center of the
road 14 in, 12 in, however wide, and
it's not compacted back perfect or you
overcut and you start to get sloppy,
automatically cutting into the crown of
a road. Obviously, we know that that's
going to that the integrity of the road
is is is compromised. So, I I just I
don't know if we could send something to
the light department in a friendly way
or talk about it, but I I do feel like
some of the roadway work, and not just
recently, over the past couple years, I
think could improve with some of their
um finish work with it as well. And I
know a lot of it's temporary, but
temporary to me is weeks and months, not
a year and a half with some of them I've
looked at. So I
>> if we could review that with them or
just talk about or a friendly reminder,
whoever's inspecting them too, you know,
I I do think we could improve there.
Totally noted. So, uh, one of the other
things that we have we will have going
on this fall, um, myself, Bill, our town
engineer, we need to redo some of our
construction standards, um, and any of
the drafts I have written for that are
pretty iron. Um, good
>> for the same reasons that you say,
right? We don't want to mill a road and
find out that they blew through a trench
and now we have to patch it before we
can pave it. Um, you know, I will say
one of the other things from the
coordination standpoint, you may or may
not have heard, um, there's, you know,
been a lot of activity of, you know, why
haven't you paved Main Street and
Greenwood? Why haven't you paved Main
Street and Greenwood? I can tell you
that the gas work that's happening down
there is because, you know, during those
meetings where we try to coordinate all
of our priorities together. One of them
was we want to go down to Melrose and
start paving our way back to the center
of town and they get to get out of the
way. So, you know, that's happening now
because it's in our crosshairs. cuz we
want to get there in the very near
future. That just happens to go first.
>> Thank you,
>> Joe. On that note, I've been biking a
lot lately and that section of Main
Street from like Oak down to the Melrose
line is so bad.
>> It's like dangerous to ride on. So,
that's exciting to hear that paving is
coming. Um, I'm going to give a little
plug for, you know, the bike lanes that
we did in Melrose. Um, they are
admittedly a tiny bit substandard width,
but I've found them to be safer than not
having them. And I know bike lanes can
be a very touchy subject in Wakefield,
but I think with the right um with the
right outreach, assuming that the road
width is essentially the same once you
cross, you know, because we Melrose has
half of the road and Wakefield has the
other side of the road for that awkward
piece up by the town line. Um
>> by Bay State Road there. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Where where Melrose owns one
side of the street and Wakefield owns
the other side. I think the width is
essentially the same. So, we just ended
our bike lane for Melrose at that
transition. Um,
but in essence, what we have is we
always had very small painted um parking
lanes. They're only like 6 and 1/2 ft
wide or something, but they were always
like that before. And then we were able
to add like a four to four and a half
foot wide bike lane because the road is
just enormous and there's really no need
for anyone to drive. You know, you don't
need more than 11t lanes with even with
a bus route. So there's no reason for
people to feel like they need to drive
with this enormous width. And I would
love to see just what we have up to the
Wakefield line just extended into
Wakefield when that gets paved. And it
wouldn't have to change anybody's
parking. um you know all the things that
are controversial about it normally
wouldn't have to change presuming that
you have essentially the same width in
Wakefield that you do in Miller.
>> Definitely something that to look at
when they're in there um you know
polishing up the design work. The only
thing that gets a little interesting um
when you get in that whole area
where kind of bottlenecks in the area of
like where Oak and Maine and um you know
Greenwood Street kind of all tied
together you know that's
>> Oh yeah. I don't think you'd have room
there.
>> No, I mean I almost wish if you relayaid
Wakefield that would have been a 60 80
foot rightway right there too and then
>> you would have been golden. Um but you
know it's not and there's there's a
bunch of stuff there. But um duly noted.
>> Well, if we're talking pipe dream stuff,
we should underground all the electric
in that intersection too because it is
the biggest mess. Oh, yeah. It's I I
looked at the horizontal width when they
were doing the gas work there and it
there's a there's anything you could
think about stuffing into the ground
there [clears throat] is there on top of
whatever is there that nobody wrote
down, you know, back
100 years ago, too. It's uh it's
definitely a busy busy spot. And there's
some there's some big ticket stuff
there. down by Subaru. There's actually
a brick um trunk sewer, so 25 ft deep
that run.
>> I like that you're still calling it
Subaru. [clears throat]
[laughter]
>> Towny, right?
>> Showing your age, Joe. Show
>> I don't think Subaru's been there for
like at least 10, 12 years.
>> Geez, I can't believe I did that because
it's been Hallmark Health now for quite
a while. [laughter]
>> But no, I mean that's fine.
>> Shame on me. But I guess shame on you
for realizing what I was talking about.
>> I'm 22 years in now. I still call Subaru
in Greenwood. So
>> yeah, [laughter]
I didn't call it I could have called it
McDonald's or like Liberty Bell or
something.
>> Liberty Bell.
>> Brighgams.
>> I love that Brighgams there.
>> Oh, that was great. They had a steak and
cheese that was really good there, too.
Not just the ice cream.
>> It was huge, too, wasn't it?
>> It was massive. Massive.
>> I'm jealous. I'm not a town, so I don't
know about this. Oh,
>> well, and I'm not a towny either, but
I'm I'm just 22 years in, so I caught
the tail end of like Subaru and Brig
Bighgams and some of the other stuff.
And the the gas station will always be
Fast Freddy's to me. We all still call
it Fast Freddy's.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> It's like Mobile Mart or some nonsense
now, but I'm I'm anti-Mobile Mart. It's
still Fast Freddy's.
>> I still call I still call the one up by
your parents. How is Chris? It's Little
Peach. It's still Little Peach. Sorry.
>> Little Peach. Oh, we had one of those
when I grew up in Lexington, too. Yeah.
I still call it Little Peach, too.
>> Slush puppies.
>> I I was just going to jump in quick, I
guess. Um, and Joe, you kind of got my
attention when you said you're looking
at different, I guess, standards for,
you know, public works or paving and
whatnot. Um, and I guess just while
we're on it, so like a little pet peeve
of mine is when they pave, if they could
just get the sewers to the same level of
the street. I know that drives me bonk
is when you're driving and the sor's
like six inches lower and it's like they
just pave the street and you get this
big bump, right? And uh yeah, I mean you
can see they get scraped too cuz they're
so low. It's just like And by the way,
it's not just Wakefield. I know that
happens in a lot of towns, but just to
keep the sewer level with the new
pavement and the street I like partic
I'm trying to think what is one uh is it
Salem Street where they paved? Uh
>> lol.
Yeah. So, you know where I'm talking.
The sewers are like 6 in down and it's
like you got to avoid them because it's
a good drop and it's a brand new paved
road and you know if you go over it in
your car it's like a pothole, right? So,
that's all just
>> Yeah. Is that a matter of a standard of
like concrete around it? Um or you know
is there something that we're doing
differently that makes it sink that we
could do a different way? No, typically
the standard is concrete uh by I think
it holds up the best. Uh I do know that
the ones that Shane mentioned there um
we know about we have raised that issue
and are expecting the remedy to be
delivered so that it is that it was
included in the spec. There's a couple of other things out
there too. There's some spalling on some
stuff that's going to get replaced. So,
um, without going too far into it, um,
>> that has all been brought up and
addressed and, you know, we basically
put it back to say not what we expect,
not what we asked for the deliverables,
so let's fix it.
>> Awesome.
>> Good point, Shane. And again, back to
it. It's just, you know, we live in a
town that it's a beautiful town. The
taxes aren't the cheapest around. I
think we all know that. And, you know,
you want to get the most bang for your
buck for all the residents. And that's all we're looking for. When
you're telling the contractor, it's,
hey, we got residents here that are
paying the the bill and, you know, they
have expectations and this is what we
expect.
>> You're not asking for anything uh fancy,
Shane. You know, you just want the the
sewer to be where it's supposed to be.
That that's asking proper proper um
construction.
>> Right. Right.
And Chris, speaking of proper
construction, Joe, I want to give kudos
to the project on Pitman
Grafton.
>> Oh yeah,
>> that whole project. The, you know, it
seemed like it was taking a really long
time. I had some neighbors say like,
"Oh, it seems like it's taking forever."
But I said, "Well, it's taking forever
because everything's being done right."
Um, it was so nice to see all the curb
ramps going in. you know, things that
I've I've always felt like Wakefield has
not
>> necessarily done the best job with, like
consistency. I mean, I know sometimes
the excuse is like, well, this is a WMG
paving job, so we're not going to do the
ramps. But I'm not sure that really
passes muster with um the regulations.
And so, I'm just really glad to see how
thorough of a job was done on that. I
mean, the curbing looks great, the
sidewalks look nice, the curb ramps look
great, the pavement looks great. Um,
I've been biking on that, too, and it's,
you know, it's like butter going down
those streets. So, yeah, they did a
really nice job.
>> I'll even add to that, Elena, too, with
the the ADU ramps, uh, now that I'm
pushing a a baby carriage.
>> Yeah, right.
>> It helps, right? It's very handy.
>> Yep. Makes a big difference.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Every crossing that exists. But kudos to
the residents down there because it was
tough, you know, relaying the fact that
there was so much drainage and stuff
that happened that we really wanted to
let it sit through the winter to freeze,
thaw, and settle.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, I can understand everybody
gets excited and wants the road paved.
Let's let's go. Um but, you know, I
think the end product is worth worth it.
So,
>> yeah, I think it's terrific. Um, also,
just to quickly mention the Greenwood
Oak, the fiveway crazy intersection. Um,
I'm happy to see that we got the grant
money and that that's moving forward.
Personally, I think the the curve of the
um of the road, like when you turn off a
green street, when you come up and you
turn off a green street, when you take
the right, there's that jog in the
center line, and I know I had mentioned
it to Bill once during the pilot. Um,
and he had said, you know, it's
deliberately aggressive to be to try to
like calm traffic, but, um, it's going
to be a little too aggressive. people
are going to go over the line there. I'm
sure that's going to happen. So, I don't
know if there's an opportunity like if
it's all going to get final paved and
then new striping is going to go down at
the end. But, if that's the case, it it
might be good to just soften that a tiny
bit because I think everything else
provides the traffic calming. I don't
think you need that one extra little jog
in the center line.
>> No. I think seeing the new vertical curb
getting brought in close to the center
line too sometimes makes you look at
those curbs and say, "All right, maybe
we could soften this a little bit
because you literally have the lane
right on you and it's right there. You
hit it, you're going to know."
>> Yeah. Yeah. But otherwise, I think it's
great. It's kind of funny seeing people
like, you know, nobody knows what to do
right now because it's half the old way
and half the new way. And
Yeah. But I'm just kind of driving it
the new way knowing that that's where
it's headed.
It's always been one of those
intersections that it's a tricky
intersection. So, I'm like extra careful
in, you know, some someone on one of the
public meetings on one of the traffic
advisory committee meetings referred to
it as it's less of like a regulation and
it's more of a negotiation. And I said
that is the best description of that
intersection because you always you get
there and you're like, "All right, I I
think I have the right of way, but are
you going to go? Should I go? Who's
going to go?"
I will say too, I was a little nervous
about the four-way intersection closer
to my house with where um Pleasant
Street uh meets Salem Street.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> They installed those stop signs and I
thought people would be blown. It
actually has calmed down the traffic
around there. Speeding.
>> Yeah,
>> because I think we all know speeding in
Wakefield's a little uh crazy.
I'm on Vernon Street. I have cars going
by my house at 50 60 miles an hour. Like
it's nothing. It's crazy,
but I have noticed an increase in police
presence, so hopefully it will slow
people down.
Is there any other um new business or
anything else?
>> No. The only thing to mention um you we
have our trash contract out on the
street. So, um
we'll loop you in uh once we start
seeing some stuff back from that. But um
we'll see what happens. Uh trash,
recycling, collection, yard waste. So
see
>> see what we get back and see what uh
what the future looks like there.
Hopefully it's not uh too crazy of a
price adjustment, but
>> I don't know. Who knows?
Hopefully not. We'll see.
>> I know. I hope not either.
>> You're running out of choices is the
problem. There's not a lot of
>> companies out there.
>> Yeah. Yeah, the the middle ground is um
smaller. You know, the major players are
the major players and you know, the
small ones are small. That in the
middle, someone that maybe could service
Wakefield, but it's a little bit, you
know, much for them. [clears throat]
>> Don't really exist anymore. They've all
kind of been gobbled up by the
corporations or
>> Yeah,
>> seems like it's time go that way.
>> I hate seeing that. I'm not going to
lie. I'm [laughter] seeing it more and
more all these corporations buying
everything. Even in my industry, it's
like the mum and pops are slowly, you
know,
>> selling off and I don't know. We'll see.
I guess
I don't know if it's the best.
>> I agree. I'm with you, Chris. I'm with
you.
>> Okay. Well, if there's nothing else, I
uh we can just wait to pick a day, too.
I know we got some drafting and stuff to
do that um we can wait for because I
think you said what is it after Labor
Day you would think?
>> Um yeah, I would think so because uh
that'll give Ann and I some time and
then um you know obviously the first
weeks of school and whatnot whether you
have
people influencing you in that regard or
not always seem to tend to be busy. But
by that point we should have a solid
baseline for you. Um, and then, you
know, it'll really just be trimming up,
you know, some of the things we may or
may not want to see different or tweaks,
but we'll get everything else out to you
early, um, by the end of this week so
you have it, you can see it, and then,
um, if you have anything in the
meantime, don't be shy. We can add it
all into everything so everybody has it.
>> Great.
>> Sounds good.
>> Thank you.
>> Well, I hope it goes really slow between
now and then.
We shall see.
>> We only only get a few months of summer,
right? So
>> that is true.
>> I can't believe it's almost August.
>> Yeah, I know. [clears throat]
So say we got to slow down. Slow down.
>> Well, if no one has anything else, I'll
let detain a motion to adjourn.
>> I will second that.
>> All in favor?
>> I
>> motion carries three nothing.
Thank you everyone.