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Can I make a motion that we leave
executive session formally?

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» I second
favor.

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» I
Okay. So, uh we left off on uh the

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recusal request
uh for me and I am going to voluntarily

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uh recuse myself from the rest of this
application

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uh right now.
You all enjoy. I would take the last

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cookie. [laughter]

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» So lake is the first alternate.

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» Excuse me
somewhere.

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Kate, I think uh procedurally the next
step the board should take is to um vote

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on an acting chair for this matter for
this agenda item.

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» Yep.
>> So, the board needs to

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vote on an acting chair.

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Volunteers

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want to do it.
Nobody wants to. I will. Or if you want

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to.
>> No, [laughter]

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I I will not sherk it, but I I
I'm not going to volunteer for it

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either, but if that's what the board
wants, I'll do it.

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» I would suggest someone um nominate
someone and then discussion and then

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vote.

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» Someone someone nominate someone at the
table. So someone's nominate either

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Daniel or Margot and then have
discussion on it. Send them both.

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» Do it. I nominate Marggo.
>> I second.

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» All those in favor?
[laughter]

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» Any opposed?

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» The rains go to you, Margo.
>> The rains go to me. Okay. So, I think

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we're on
uh gone through everything on

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the first item. So the second item is
citizen comments unrelated to the public

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hearing and correct me if I'm wrong, but
that anything to do with the blue sky

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application. There's another opportunity
for public comment when we get down to

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that item. So if there's anything else
um that anybody would like to comment

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on,
this is your opportunity. just come to

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the podium.

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Guaranteed
last chance.

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Okay, seeing seeing no interest then I
think we can move on to the next item.

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And so this is the hearing um the
[clears throat] continued hearing on the

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uh uh Friendship Road Blue Sky Tower
application.

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And the first item here is to determine
the land use ordinance

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um that we're going to use whether it be
the older one or the new one that was

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voted in by the town. And I think Amy
has am I correct Amy that you are going

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to give us some clarifying information
on this?

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Sorry, I was on mute. Um, you have you
all received the supplemental

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application submitted by Blue Sky on
this issue?

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00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:51,840
» Can pass these out.
>> Okay. Yes. All right. So, uh, remember

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last time we met on July 9th, there was
a discussion and and because I, uh,

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didn't have the procedural history, I
wasn't sure exactly where the planning

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00:03:57,599 --> 00:04:03,760
board was in its review of the
application.

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00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:08,959
And, uh, Mr. Dval did take you through a
procedural history then and there was a

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discussion um as you know at that
meeting based on um you know no no

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particular research but my understanding
of how main law operates um regarding

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applications that come before the board
when there is an ordinance change that

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00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:28,960
happens midstream.
Um I believed then and I told you that I

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00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:34,320
believed that the new ordinance
amendments to the extent that they

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impact uh this application would apply.
My understanding is that they were voted

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on on June 9th and the law in Maine. um
there is a statute um 1 MRS section 302

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that operates as a kind of rule of
construction that would operate to say

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that the board um the version of the
ordinance that would apply to an

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application would be the version that is
in effect um when uh the application has

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received its first substantive review.
and the first substantive review would

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not happen until after a completeness
determination has been made on the

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application. It's my understanding um
your ordinance does actually give that

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duty to the planner to actually deem an
application complete and it was my

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understanding based on the discussion on
July 9th that the first substantive

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discussion at the earliest did not take
by the planning board for site plan

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approval.
um the earliest date would have been

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that July 9th meeting which is after the
June 9th adoption of the amendments.

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So, it is my belief and my opinion that
I think the new the the new amendments

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to the town ordinance do apply to this
application

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um the new version of the ordinance and
as you know at the last meeting I

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suggested that the planning board table
in part because of course um the

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applicant didn't wasn't aware of all the
ways in which the new ordinance might

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change what would need to be submitted
to meet the new um the new provisions of

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the ordinance that would apply to this
application. So my understanding was

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that um Blue Sky has now supplemented
its materials. For example, it's

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provided a landscape plan and some other
things as well as making an argument

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that the old ordinance should apply. I
want to just address that briefly first.

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From my opinion, you will certainly
should, Marggo, I recommend you invite

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the applicant um to make a statement
that they want about this issue as well.

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So, you hear from both sides. Um but the
applicant based on my reading of the

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application suggests that it was the
board of appeals meeting that happened

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00:07:00,479 --> 00:07:07,599
on May 21st. As you know, there was a
there was a meeting before the board of

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appeals. was the first variance
um meeting or or first meeting to

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00:07:10,479 --> 00:07:18,960
discuss the uh a variance. Um the board
of appeals is is not um a

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decision-making body on site plan review
or site plan approval. And the board of

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00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:28,880
appeals is not looking specifically at
the performance standards that the

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00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:32,400
planning board is. And the board of
appeals also doesn't have to make a

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00:07:30,639 --> 00:07:38,000
completeness determination before they
look at a variance. um and decide

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00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:42,639
whether to grant one or not. Um on top
of that, I believe that um the

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00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:47,360
discussion was very preliminary and in
fact there was some confusion as to what

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00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:51,440
version of which application they were
even considering and ultimately the

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00:07:49,199 --> 00:07:57,919
board of appeals on May 21st decided to
table so they could allow the planning

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board to conduct um its review
um and that's where that stands. So, I

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00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:07,919
do not believe that the May 21st meeting
of a ve a different board than the

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planning board. Um, and whatever
happened at that proceeding is what can

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00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:18,720
trigger or vest um the version of the
ordinance that applies to an application

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00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:23,120
that comes before the planning board.
So, I don't believe that the old

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00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:27,080
ordinance applies to this application. I
believe the new ordinance does.

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00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:32,520
Would uh blue sky like to comment?

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00:08:35,279 --> 00:08:42,640
» Madame acting acting chair, good
evening. Uh members of the board, uh

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00:08:39,680 --> 00:08:49,200
staff, uh Earl Deval, uh here on behalf
of Blue Sky Towers. Uh also with me this

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00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:56,399
evening, uh Jesse Marino, project
engineer from Proter Design Group. Uh

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00:08:52,959 --> 00:09:03,920
and where did he go? Ailio.
Ailio Santanago uh with CQ Squared

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00:08:59,839 --> 00:09:09,120
Systems um RF engineer.
So

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00:09:06,399 --> 00:09:15,680
this issue did
um come to my attention

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00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:22,640
just at the last meeting whether or not
we would be subjected to

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00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:28,320
um the new ordinance or if we would uh
continue under the old ordinance.

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Now, as you know, I was here for a
preliminary meeting back in October

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uh of last year. It's been a very long
process uh to where we are now.

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I'm absolutely believe that our rights
vested under the old ordinance

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and they vested under the old ordinance
for two reasons. Number one, there was a

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substantive review at the May uh 21st
hearing.

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And secondly,
uh, even if you determined that there

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wasn't or argued that there wasn't a
substantive review on the May 21st

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hearing,
uh, Equity

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independently finds that Blue Sky rights
under the old ordinance at vested.

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So, I'm not going to walk us through the
timeline in the detail that I did at the

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last hearing, but I am going to
reference back to this.

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So,
our application was deemed complete and

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I've submitted the the
um procedural history into the record on

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March 25th
and we received that substantive review

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on May 21st before the enactment of the
new ordinance on the 9th.

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The board of appeals opened a noticed
public hearing and had a quorum.

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The board of appeals accepted extensive
opposition testimony from a direct

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butter for over 20 minutes.
The board of appeals accepted a 30-page

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memorandum
and opposition from the same butter.

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Now, although I'm going to get to this
when we talk about equity, but although

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that the the board intentionally tried
to prohibit me from addressing Blue

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Skye's uh application,
I had experts uh with us with me. Um, I

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addressed the very issues central to the
relief, the 300 yard restriction, the

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00:11:51,279 --> 00:11:59,440
coverage gap, the lack of feasible
alternatives, effective prohibition.

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It even addressed a couple of the
ridiculous comments that were made by

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00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:11,760
the abutter.
Now, a proceeding that includes merits

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testimony, written opposition,
an applicant response

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is substantive
in every practical sense.

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00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:31,040
Now, like I said, even if you want to
argue that that wasn't substantive or

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wasn't substant enough, equity would
independently find that our rights, blue

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sky rights, vested under the old
ordinance.

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I can clearly demonstrate

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that the town engaged in a pattern of
wrongful and deliberate delay

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designed to postpone action on our
application until after the effective

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date of the new ordinance.

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00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,279
I think it's important enough that I
should say that again because I'm going

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00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,839
to read you an email in a minute and
then I'm going to give you some

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00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:17,040
procedural history that
seals it.

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00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:22,480
I will demonstrate without a doubt that
the town engaged in a pattern of

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00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:27,839
wrongful and deliberate delay
designed to postpone action on our

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00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:33,839
application until after the effective
date of the new ordinance.

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00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:39,519
I appreciate the fact that uh the
chairman recused himself because I need

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00:13:36,399 --> 00:13:44,480
not look any further than an email
between

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00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:48,839
your then chairman
and resident Wayne.

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00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:07,279
Thank you.
So, this this email between Wayne Meyers

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00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:12,800
and your former chair,
it says, "You did an outstanding job on

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00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:16,240
managing the ordinance work session
today.

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00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:21,360
You knew the issue thoroughly,
summarized without monopolizing,

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moved the meeting along without shutting
one shutting anyone out. Good job,

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Wayne."

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00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:35,760
former chairman.
Thanks, Wayne. I'm hoping we can make

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00:14:32,959 --> 00:14:40,079
positive changes that affect this
project.

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00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:46,480
Let me say that again. We can make
positive changes that affect this

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00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:52,880
project and all future projects while
also making it just ownorous enough

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00:14:50,639 --> 00:14:58,480
that we can get the towers that we can
only get the towers that we truly need.

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00:14:56,639 --> 00:15:07,199
Also,
I'm planning to move to table the

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00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:15,240
application to use all of our 150 days
so that these new rule changes affect

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the current application.

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00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:23,440
Thanks for your contributions
to the meeting.

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00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:28,000
Now, if we look back to my procedural
history,

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00:15:24,959 --> 00:15:33,199
it was and and I can go back and look at
the exact dates, but it was in April

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00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:38,320
in which
we had a planning board hearing

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00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:41,320
scheduled. And maybe I'll show that
here.

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Let's see.
We had a planning board hearing

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scheduled
for April 9th.

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00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:08,639
There was still an issue then as to
whether or not the planning board could

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00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:16,480
issue a waiver for the 300 yard
restriction or if we needed a variance.

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00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:21,040
I was told and had multiple
conversations with the planner and the

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00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:25,839
town manager that the planning board
could issue a waiver.

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00:16:24,079 --> 00:16:30,880
I don't have the emails with me, but I
did a lot of research and sent emails

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00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:37,040
over to the planner saying I don't think
so. I don't think although it would have

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00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:40,320
felt like it might have been easier like
I don't think so. I don't think the

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planning board has the authority to do
that. I think we need a variance of

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00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:51,279
sorts. And remember last time I talked
about how I had enough discussions with

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00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:57,199
Kate to say, is it a dimensional
variance? Is it a use variance? The it

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00:16:54,399 --> 00:17:03,440
it's almost like that 300 yard
restriction is like an overlay district.

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00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:08,480
I said, we need to figure this out.
What's the best approach here? It was

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00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:14,880
even talked about that that restriction
or I kept saying in emails and in

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00:17:11,439 --> 00:17:19,120
conversation that that is an effective
prohibition.

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00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:22,799
If you looked at the materials I
submitted, I think that was agreed to in

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00:17:20,559 --> 00:17:28,319
the Noble Burough uh decision. Same
ordinance agreement that effective

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00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:32,640
prohibition.
So,

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00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:39,440
we didn't have
a determination from

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00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:42,760
town council as to what she thought
it was.

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00:17:43,919 --> 00:17:54,400
Uh, looks like a I can do math here. 9
days later on the 17th, I got a call

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00:17:51,919 --> 00:18:02,160
from the planner confirming that what we
needed was a dimensional variance.

193
00:17:57,919 --> 00:18:07,919
And that the discussion was that's the
probably the best

194
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:14,799
uh mechanism for us to move forward
under that 300 yard restriction for

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00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:21,120
relief.
Well, my client Blue Sky is starting to

196
00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,960
get a little impatient because we
started a long time ago and now we're

197
00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:29,679
we're still trying to figure out what
the relief is. And this isn't supposed

198
00:18:27,679 --> 00:18:37,480
to be adversarial. I'm supposed to
figure out what your ordinance says and

199
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,480
then do my best to comply with it.

200
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:50,400
So because time had gone on, I had said,
"How about

201
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:56,000
because it really comes down to uh the
gap in coverage and the testimony from

202
00:18:53,360 --> 00:19:01,360
the RF uh engineer
and all the research that we do with

203
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:06,400
regards to alternative sites and what
works and what doesn't work and what's

204
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:10,760
feasible and what's not feasible.
So I asked for a joint meeting.

205
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:20,720
I thought that was going to be so
efficient and I've done joint meetings

206
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:24,799
for 30 years.
It's efficient for the boards. It's

207
00:19:22,559 --> 00:19:31,039
efficient for the residents. It's
efficient for the experts.

208
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:37,120
It's good for all of us.
It was denied.

209
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:40,360
Now I know why it was denied
or delay.

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00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:50,240
I was told, well,
the boards are kind of wrestling back

211
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:56,039
and forth who's going to go first
and

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00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:56,039
the zoning board should go first.

213
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:09,120
It was determined that we would go to
the board of appeals on the 21st and

214
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:13,919
we'd go to the planning board on June
11th.

215
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:18,840
June 11th. H
2 days after town vote.

216
00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:30,640
I had discussions with Kate early on
that we are proceeding under the old

217
00:20:28,159 --> 00:20:34,960
ordinance. In fact, remember I offered
assistance. I said, "You want some RF

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00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:41,360
engineers? I can make recommendations to
you folks so you can they can look

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00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:46,080
around the entire town to see where uh
the gaps in coverage are and you could

220
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:52,760
create overlay districts."
I was actually offering to help

221
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,760
on the ordinance sections.

222
00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:05,360
So I show up on May 21st thinking that
town council had shared with Kate who

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00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:11,120
shared with me that the relief that we
needed was a dimensional variance.

224
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:17,440
I went in thinking that everyone was on
board that provision

225
00:21:14,159 --> 00:21:22,799
illegal effective prohibition.
I knew I knew what it is I needed to

226
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:27,919
say. Short, tight, clear, and concise.
and that I was even told the town

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00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:32,600
council was going to be at that meeting
to help explain to the board

228
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,919
what needed to be done, educate on the
law.

229
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:52,640
I knew something was wrong
and I so wanted to jump up and down and

230
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:57,919
object but my gut said no because they
opened the meeting on the 21st.

231
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:04,159
the
the agenda, it talks about the the same

232
00:22:01,919 --> 00:22:10,080
now the agenda has been clarified where
it talks about public comment other than

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00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:15,679
the application that's um before you.
Well, guess what? It didn't say that.

234
00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:23,600
and the chairman of the board of appeals
had stepped down and the uh there was a

235
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:28,559
a new chair acting chair and allowed
testimony from one of the abutters went

236
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:36,080
on for more than 20 minutes
saying never in my life have I ever seen

237
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:42,679
this happen someone's testifying in
opposition to my project and I haven't

238
00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:42,679
even presented it.

239
00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:54,320
It there was an executive session
and it was so obvious and I didn't know

240
00:22:50,400 --> 00:23:01,440
why, but it was so obvious that the
board of appeals

241
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:07,919
wanted to just continue or table
whatever they wanted to do to get out of

242
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:11,039
there and put the application
to the planning board.

243
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:21,280
which was again on June 11th, two days
after the town vote.

244
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:26,000
Now, shame on me.
Based upon conversations with Kate,

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00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:29,360
based upon transparency,
based upon all the efforts that I had

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00:23:27,919 --> 00:23:33,320
made to make sure that we are applying
for the correct relief.

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00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:41,919
I didn't know what was happening.
I sat there saying,

248
00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:44,799
What do you mean? You Someone was on the
television like we need more

249
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,880
information. We don't have enough
information. We need to get information

250
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:51,840
from the planning board.
What do you mean you need information

251
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:57,039
from the planning board? You have an
application there and and I don't know

252
00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:02,480
about this whole confusion with with
applications. I think we cleared all

253
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:06,320
that um up because there was just the
site plan with the waiver and then we

254
00:24:04,559 --> 00:24:10,559
updated the application to include the
dimensional variance based upon council

255
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:15,679
uh opinion.
Everything was submitted. There was no

256
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:20,000
issues with anything. Picked that
application 13 exhibits which I

257
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:24,440
painfully walked you folks through last
time with additional exhibits.

258
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:32,080
I had experts here. We had all the
information that the board of appeals

259
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:37,440
would have ever needed right here
sitting there and all they wanted to do

260
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:43,919
was run.
Be done. Continue it.

261
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:49,679
Well, now the the then chairman was
sitting right in the front

262
00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:55,360
based upon that email and we did a foyer
request. I've got some other exhibits

263
00:24:52,480 --> 00:25:01,932
about all these meetings between the
then chairman of the planning board and

264
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:07,240
a butters and neighbors Facebook posts.
[snorts] It's a treasure trove of

265
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,240
materials.

266
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:20,679
It's crystal clear that there was a lot
going on to make sure that Duval and

267
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,679
Blue Sky

268
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:27,960
ended up presenting after June 9th.

269
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:39,520
That's bad faith. It's deliberate. It's
intentional.

270
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:44,480
There isn't any way that any court
is going to subject me to the new

271
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:50,240
ordinance with this procedural history
and with this emails and information

272
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:54,320
that I have.
It's not going to happen. Our rights are

273
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:58,200
vested
under that original ordinance.

274
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,039
And again, shame on me.

275
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:15,360
So,
I come here tonight with direction from

276
00:26:12,559 --> 00:26:22,240
Blue Sky saying
if the board thinks and council thinks

277
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:33,200
they're going to subject you,
subject us to the new ordinance, which

278
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:37,840
by the way, 800 ft from Wetlands, 200%
uh tower fall zone.

279
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:45,600
It's in your materials. I put we put
together a really nice report in there.

280
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:49,159
It's further prohibition of um service.
Not going to work anywhere.

281
00:26:49,279 --> 00:26:52,440
It's unreasonable.

282
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,120
It's intentional.

283
00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:07,039
So, if I can't convince you folks that
we need to be under the old ordinance,

284
00:27:05,279 --> 00:27:13,200
then
I'm respectfully asking to continue this

285
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:17,360
hearing
next week.

286
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,720
I'm scheduled to go before the board of
appeals. I'll go to the board of

287
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:26,320
appeals.
I don't know what they're going to do.

288
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:30,720
» Can I ask you a clarifying question?
Yes, please.

289
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,600
» You cited I don't have the old one and
the new one memorized. So,

290
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:39,679
» me either.
>> So, so you just need to help me a little

291
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:44,240
bit here. You mentioned two things. The
wetlands thing is pretty

292
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:49,120
self-explanatory.
The the there was no specific language

293
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,200
in the old one. Was that true or
>> That is true. There was no specific

294
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,840
setback language.
>> And and then what what was the other one

295
00:27:52,880 --> 00:28:00,559
you were talking about? Can you explain?
There's a there's a fall zone and Jesse

296
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:07,200
please help me. Um there was a fall zone
requirement in the

297
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:13,679
I'll say old ordinance that was 105%.
We met that fall zone requirement.

298
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:16,640
» So if a tower is 100t tall it's5t
set back

299
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:21,120
» but we changed it to 200. So now they'd
have to be road

300
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:27,600
property line.
>> Now it' have to be 400 ft. Okay.

301
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:32,960
» I only bring that up just as as
reference. I mean, we we looked at it.

302
00:28:30,399 --> 00:28:39,039
Um, again, I think there was a
substantive hearing. I think the delay I

303
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:44,080
think
and I I'm not sure if you folks have

304
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:48,000
have all the
Who do you want me to hand this to? I We

305
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,840
just got these and thank you to the town
and the

306
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:56,159
» hand it to the chair.
Um, we just got these materials on

307
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:00,080
Tuesday night and I've not had a chance
to look through them, but um, the town

308
00:28:58,399 --> 00:29:04,000
did a very nice job with the foyer
requests and all the information. This

309
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:06,799
is just stuff that I thought would be
helpful

310
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,840
um,
>> this evening.

311
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:16,840
» So,
I just I just want to understand

312
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,840
this a little bit better. I'm sorry.

313
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:26,640
If if we were to go with the new
ordinance, how far

314
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:32,799
would you be out of compliance with the
as things as the application stands with

315
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,880
in in that area?
>> 95%.

316
00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:39,440
» Okay.
>> Yeah. We met 105 and if you're going to

317
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,640
200, you would be basically almost
double the distance away.

318
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:47,520
» And and the
>> what are we now from the property line?

319
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:52,080
238 ft
>> and they would require a 390 foot

320
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:55,200
setback which would
>> um

321
00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:59,200
what is the setback?
>> Um the the available space to them is

322
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,200
258 ft.
>> Okay.

323
00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:09,039
» At the last meeting and I I'm having
trouble finding it. you had mentioned

324
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:15,679
that you and Kate had reached an
agreement on a date to set for the start

325
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:22,399
of the stop clock for the application.
Um, what day is that?

326
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:29,840
So Kate, you can help me out here, but
we decided that confirmed that April

327
00:30:25,679 --> 00:30:34,240
27th, the date that we had find, we had
received confirmation from town council

328
00:30:31,919 --> 00:30:41,200
that we needed a dimensional variance,
we updated the application and filed it.

329
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:44,799
So we said April 27th was the start. So
September something, right?

330
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:49,600
» Yes.
>> September 12th.

331
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:56,080
» Okay. I want to read for the board just
out of the the land use ordinance. Um

332
00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:00,960
section 3.3.2
says that the substant the submitt of an

333
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:04,960
application for review shall not
constitute the start of the review

334
00:31:02,559 --> 00:31:12,159
process for the purpose of bringing an
application under the provisions of MRSA

335
00:31:08,559 --> 00:31:17,840
section 302. The formal review process
shall commence upon notification to the

336
00:31:14,799 --> 00:31:23,760
applicant that a complete application
has been submitted. Kate, was that done?

337
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:29,600
You did in March, right?
>> But we're moving that to April.

338
00:31:26,399 --> 00:31:37,559
» That's the But still before
>> we didn't change that date. We didn't

339
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:37,559
change the completeness date. We

340
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:51,279
» we we were we were being reasonable with
regards to the shot clock and with

341
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:56,080
approval from uh Blue Sky at all because
we were what I thought working

342
00:31:54,399 --> 00:32:04,000
cooperatively
and collaboratively to understand

343
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:09,760
what it was that you folks wanted us to
do for the process.

344
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:17,120
I mean, we we were ready way back when
to come in with an application for um

345
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:21,840
site plan requesting two waivers, the
landscape waiver, which we removed and

346
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:28,640
we have even an updated landscape plan
for you this evening, um and the 300

347
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:33,120
yard. But I was uncomfortable with
seeking a waiver. I didn't think that

348
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:38,080
was legally permissible.
That's why we went that's why we got

349
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:45,440
clarification and went to the board of
appeals

350
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:48,760
which we were stopped in our tracks
from presenting.

351
00:32:49,679 --> 00:32:56,640
I I let me say something. I think all of
this we're discussing right now is sort

352
00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:01,760
of a sideeshow. I mean I think we should
get back to the applications. I tend to

353
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:06,000
agree that this that we should let it go
under the prior ordinance. I think it I

354
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:10,880
think you could argue it probably both
directions I suppose but the reality is

355
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:16,159
that you know they have been here for
almost a year pushing this thing

356
00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:20,720
forward. So and and I think have shown
good faith. I think they've shown good

357
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:26,640
faith. No, we we just let's just get to
the I mean, forget about the prior new

358
00:33:23,919 --> 00:33:29,039
just accept the brier, accept that and
just let them run the application

359
00:33:28,399 --> 00:33:34,159
through us.
>> So So can can I just ask two more

360
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:37,279
clarifi quick clarifying questions, but
then may I'm going to ask you to present

361
00:33:36,399 --> 00:33:42,559
that again.
>> I I will.

362
00:33:38,559 --> 00:33:49,600
» But my my quick clarifying questions are
the the fall zone of the tower. Isn't

363
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:53,760
the tower designed in a perfect world
anyway to collapse down on itself and

364
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:59,120
not tip over?
>> That that is correct. uh one of the

365
00:33:56,399 --> 00:34:03,440
exhibits to the application
um states just that the tower is

366
00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:08,879
engineered to do just that, collapse on
itself. So it doesn't

367
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:14,720
» so so the so this this extra distance is
kind of an abundance of caution if you

368
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:19,440
will because it it probably wouldn't
>> circumstance just fall straight over.

369
00:34:16,720 --> 00:34:27,599
» Correct. And then and then can somebody
remind me what the difference in the

370
00:34:23,839 --> 00:34:32,800
wetland setback is on the application
compared to the new is it isn't it less

371
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:40,240
than 100 ft?
>> It's about 80 feet about 80 feet. So

372
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:44,159
» it's it's not exactly there but it's not
you know it's not

373
00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:47,679
» I think the new requirement is 800.
>> Well that's what I'm saying. It's all

374
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:51,359
It's What What is it now, Jesse?
>> I'm just looking. I think it's Yeah. So,

375
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:56,000
from the front pond, there's a front
like farm pond there that is a wetland.

376
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:58,400
It's I think it's about 720 ft from
that,

377
00:34:56,720 --> 00:35:07,440
» but there's also some wetlands in the
back. So, you're probably um I'd say

378
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:11,200
probably 120 feet from those
>> because what happens the further you go

379
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:15,839
back, they kind of converge together
till you get to the direction back. And

380
00:35:13,839 --> 00:35:20,960
what's the what does the old ordinance
say? The old didn't have any

381
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:25,520
» excuse me,
>> can I get that distance again in the

382
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:29,520
back?
>> Sorry if I made a comment for you, Mr.

383
00:35:27,359 --> 00:35:34,240
Motion. Um
just um I would just like to mention

384
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,320
that to me it sounds like the problem
with the new your problem with the new

385
00:35:36,079 --> 00:35:41,520
ordinance is that you have to ask for
you would have to ask for a variance for

386
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:46,480
this project whereas with the old
ordinance you have to ask for a variance

387
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:50,160
for the project. Either way you are
going to have to ask for a variance from

388
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,920
the appeal board. So to me that's not a
compelling reason to choose the old

389
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,760
ordinance over the new ordinance.
>> It's my understanding is it's more

390
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:01,599
variance. Yeah, they have to ask for
two, two, even three variances as

391
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:07,680
opposed to the one.
>> No matter what was said when

392
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:11,839
» Yeah, no matter what, you're going to
have to go before the appeals board. I

393
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:16,560
would also like to say that there were a
lot of comments made about a board

394
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:19,839
person who is no longer here. And so, in
my opinion, those comments are no longer

395
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:24,000
particularly relevant as they were all
pertaining to him. If you're alleging

396
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:28,000
that there's a townwide conspiracy
because the town's moving slow and

397
00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:33,440
inefficient, I have some terrible news
about rural municipalities for you. That

398
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:38,720
is sort of the reality of our situation.
We are more often on the receiving end

399
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:42,480
of it. I assure you. Um, so I would I
would recommend that we go with the new

400
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:46,960
ordinance that we put a lot of time and
energy and got a lot of people's input

401
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:53,599
on.
So I I as a chair I'm willing to accept

402
00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:59,520
any any one of the five of you making
that you or four of you I guess

403
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:03,359
including myself makes five a motion.
>> I move that we review this under the old

404
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:09,839
ordinance.
>> I second that.

405
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:13,920
» Any further discussion about that?
>> I

406
00:37:11,359 --> 00:37:19,200
with the new ordinance.
That's just my personal agreement. Laws

407
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:23,440
are laws that there for a reason. Can't
just pick and choose when you want to

408
00:37:21,119 --> 00:37:27,920
apply something to something that gives
you a benefit.

409
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:34,160
I'd agree except that the ordinance says
that their rights vest once the

410
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:39,160
application is deemed upon notification
to the applicant that the application

411
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:46,720
that a complete application has been
submitted which happens

412
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:49,440
» that that's no that's not disputed
that's undisputed

413
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:55,200
» that's undisputed and this says that
their rights vest they do not vest until

414
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:58,560
that happens so that's a negative
meaning that if they don't vest until

415
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:03,040
that happens when that happens their
rights vest that's my interpretation I

416
00:38:01,599 --> 00:38:06,480
know other people have presented other
things

417
00:38:03,359 --> 00:38:12,240
» well and I would say the lawyer uh did
say that we have every right to examine

418
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,359
this under the new ordinance in in their
legal opinions

419
00:38:13,839 --> 00:38:20,560
» well
can Amy you're still there

420
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,480
» I am here you are about to lose me but
uh

421
00:38:21,599 --> 00:38:29,920
» um so Daniel Daniel is reading
Um, did you did you hear what you read?

422
00:38:27,839 --> 00:38:34,320
» I did and and I I'll just weigh in
briefly and I think this is the board's

423
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:42,160
decision and you can weigh a number of
things. I do not read 3.3.2 as saying

424
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:47,119
that the rights affirmatively vest upon
um a determination of completeness. What

425
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:52,720
it says is
uh rights do not vest upon submittal

426
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:59,119
and it says that the formal review
process shall commence upon notification

427
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:06,960
that a complete application has been
submitted.

428
00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:12,320
The law further says under 1302 that the
vesting doesn't occur until the first

429
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:16,720
substantive review. So I have seen some
planning boards who do a completeness

430
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:21,200
determination at one meeting then they
stop and they say come back next meeting

431
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:27,440
next month and we'll begin our first
substantive review and that's when

432
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:34,720
um things vest.
Um, and so I don't see the second

433
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:38,320
sentence as saying affirmatively that
the vesting occurs upon the

434
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:45,040
determination of completeness. And that
would actually run contrary to

435
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:52,960
um the court decisions that have have um
interpreted 1 MRS 302 which say unless

436
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:56,480
unless the ordinance expressly says
otherwise

437
00:39:54,640 --> 00:40:00,400
the vesting occurs upon the first
substantive review by the planning board

438
00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:05,200
not upon completeness determination. And
I don't see this sentence as

439
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:08,200
affirmatively saying that it vests upon
completion.

440
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,000
I do also want to just make one one very
small point because I think you're

441
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:21,280
probably going to lose me and you'll
make whatever decision you'll want to

442
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:26,079
make in [snorts] terms of um discussions
that go along with when an applicant

443
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:30,000
meets [snorts] and tries to get
assistance from planning staff. That's

444
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:35,359
very typical.
um planning planning staff interprets

445
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:40,640
the ordinance, but ultimately it's the
applicant's burden to interpret the

446
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:44,560
ordinance and if a helpful um staff
member says, "Well, maybe you should try

447
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:49,440
this, maybe you should try that,"
ultimately it's up to the planning board

448
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:54,720
to make the decision.
Um and and so you know the allegations

449
00:40:52,480 --> 00:41:01,680
that the town told me to do one thing
and then that didn't turn out is not in

450
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:06,960
my opinion um uh evidence of any kind of
bad faith or deliberate attempts to

451
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:11,520
delay. This is a process that has taken
some time. I acknowledge I think

452
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:18,480
everyone is at least from my observation
everyone has been here in good faith. Um

453
00:41:15,119 --> 00:41:23,280
and um it's there are a lot of complex
balls up in the air, but that's up to

454
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:29,480
the planning board to decide as to which
version of the ordinance you want to

455
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:29,480
apply to have apply to this application.

456
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:37,599
» Well, why don't we finish voting voting
on the motion?

457
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:44,160
» Well, yeah. Is there any further
discussion before we vote on the the

458
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:48,720
proposal?
Well, if if it's open it's open to

459
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:54,800
further discussion. You have a lawyer
out there who's telling you legally. I

460
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:57,680
would think the latter is true. But why
would you go against a legal

461
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,440
» No, she's saying you can vote either
way. But she's saying that it's up to us

462
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:05,520
how we vote.
>> Right. But I'm saying her legal advice

463
00:42:03,119 --> 00:42:09,599
» interpret Well, I mean her
interpretation is her interpretation.

464
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:16,560
That's a distinction. Right.
>> Right. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm just struggling

465
00:42:14,720 --> 00:42:21,119
with calling the vote because I have a
feeling I more people have been saying

466
00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:24,079
[laughter]
I'm gonna end up being the deciding vote

467
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:28,160
and I'm
>> Well, so be it.

468
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:33,920
» And no, I'm I'm I just need to process
this a little bit. It's a big decision.

469
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:37,520
» Am I uh Madam Chair, am I allowed to
comment any further?

470
00:42:36,319 --> 00:42:41,520
» Um
>> I think it's decision. It's it's

471
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:44,000
discussion amongst the board
>> right now. Yeah,

472
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,440
» that's why I asked.
>> Yeah, thank you.

473
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,440
» No, I appreciate that. Um

474
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:59,839
I guess well I I'm allowed to discuss
too. So I I guess the help me the place

475
00:42:54,880 --> 00:43:04,560
I'm a little hung up on is I I
you know I I do want to act in good

476
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:10,079
faith. I'm hearing both sides of this. I
I I get that. I I totally get the

477
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:16,480
argument that this has been going on for
a long time. I also get the argument

478
00:43:12,319 --> 00:43:20,960
that this is, you know, this is perhaps
asking for three variances instead of

479
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:26,480
one variance with a distinctive process.
It's not a, you know, u final nail in

480
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:31,760
the coffin in any way to vote in that
direction.

481
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:38,560
And um but I I guess the thing that's in
the back of my mind is I want whatever

482
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:45,599
comes out of this to to
be as clean as it can be. So So we're

483
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:50,960
not setting ourselves up for um just a
lot of future potential litigation.

484
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,200
Um
and

485
00:43:53,119 --> 00:43:58,960
you know, so that's where that's where
I'm struggling. And I don't know if any

486
00:43:56,319 --> 00:44:02,560
of you can help me because I
>> well the two is I think the two issue

487
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:07,200
issues at hand the wetlands issue and
other issue are sort of like not really

488
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:11,359
important here. So really it comes down
to I think whether we're acting in good

489
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:15,040
faith and I tend to disagree with with
the lawyer but with other people on the

490
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:20,160
board that we're not acting in good
faith here. I I think really think that

491
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:24,079
these these applicants have done
what they've been asked to do and I and

492
00:44:22,240 --> 00:44:26,880
I think the town planner has actually
helped them along with that process

493
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,400
though I don't think we're acting in
good faith here by continually throwing

494
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,680
roadblocks in front of them trying to
you know it does seem like a lot of

495
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:39,119
delay and roadblock and just neg
negativity I mean but whether you like

496
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:43,680
the idea of a cell tower being there
it's a whole another issue here I mean

497
00:44:41,119 --> 00:44:47,599
let's let's get down to that and talk
about whether that's really uh something

498
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:54,720
that we really need and want in this
town but not this continual sort of you

499
00:44:51,599 --> 00:44:59,680
know backdoor kind of maneuvering
>> you can look I mean you can say it's

500
00:44:56,319 --> 00:45:04,160
roadblocks but also I feel like it's
>> Amy can the other alternate who is not

501
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:07,119
technically
>> sorry

502
00:45:06,079 --> 00:45:10,720
» I thought I can't vote
>> I can't participate the other alternate

503
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:14,240
the second alternate
>> he can speak can't he

504
00:45:12,079 --> 00:45:18,960
» yes yes the second alternate can speak
the Second alternate if I'm

505
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:22,640
understanding cannot vote but can
participate in the discussion.

506
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:26,560
» I just wanted to make sure.
>> Thank you. U

507
00:45:24,720 --> 00:45:30,560
you know one hand you can say it's
roadblocks but on the other hand it to

508
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:36,800
me it feels like we're doing our due dil
diligence in in you know in figuring out

509
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:41,839
all of this stuff. If there's something
in the code that says, you know, hey,

510
00:45:39,599 --> 00:45:46,319
there is no setback, well then
>> we should put in a setback from the

511
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:49,839
lance, like that was that that's on us.
>> If we were doing our due diligence, this

512
00:45:48,079 --> 00:45:54,640
this application would have been would
have been taken care of months ago.

513
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:58,640
» I mean, why?
>> Because it's it just been delayed.

514
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,720
» We're our job isn't just to just stamp
anything.

515
00:45:59,119 --> 00:46:04,560
» No, believe me. No, no, no. Our job is
to deliberate, but this you can't

516
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:09,280
deliberate for, you know, on and on and
on. I mean, come on. I mean, if if we're

517
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:14,079
constantly finding new things and
working out things, that's absolutely

518
00:46:11,839 --> 00:46:16,640
what we're here to do.
>> Yeah.

519
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:22,319
» Yeah. I guess I I hear what you're
saying. I struggle a little bit with I

520
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:26,319
» I mean, there is an argument potentially
to be made for changing rules in the

521
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,880
middle of the game. Um,
>> but [clears throat] there wasn't a rule

522
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:30,720
there. Well,
>> I mean, [laughter] there was there was

523
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,319
no answer,
>> but but still, I mean,

524
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:37,760
» I would like to add that I don't view
the new ordinance as a roadblock. I view

525
00:46:36,319 --> 00:46:43,520
it, we've talked about how a lot of it
is just clarifying certain language that

526
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:47,760
was vague or poorly worded. A lot of it
was actually to make the process easier

527
00:46:45,359 --> 00:46:52,079
and more streamlined and and better for
everyone involved.

528
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:56,960
» No, the roadblock is in in in not not
the ordinance itself. the roadblock is

529
00:46:54,079 --> 00:47:02,720
in, you know, trying to kind of keep
making the leap a higher hurdle, you

530
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:05,680
know, I mean, and when when they're
acting in good faith and they've come

531
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:09,359
before us and they've been here for a
year and now we're still saying, "Okay,

532
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,760
well, now you got to do this, now you
got to do that, now you got to do this,

533
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:17,359
right?" I mean, why can't we just move
forward with the actual I mean, what's

534
00:47:15,839 --> 00:47:21,200
really important here? We want to sell
tower there for you. We

535
00:47:18,319 --> 00:47:27,599
» like
on and it's hard for somebody to make a

536
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:31,200
a decision that affects so many people
and the town.

537
00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:36,240
» Well, let's make that decision, right?
But let's make that decision.

538
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:41,200
» Expedient, but not at the cost of not
doing your due diligence to your

539
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:45,599
» right. Let's do I said let's do our due
diligence here and get get on with the

540
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:51,119
application
>> just to weigh in again my perspective

541
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:56,079
they submitted an application.
It says in article three that the

542
00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:01,599
planner and the code officer review it.
They tell them what else they need to

543
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:06,079
submit. I feel like retroactively saying
we need to have you submit all this

544
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:12,319
other stuff. It just it is changing the
game Midame and it I don't want to say

545
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:16,079
it's unfair, but I mean if a new
application came, we're not going to say

546
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:22,240
they need they can go under the old one.
They're going to have to go under the

547
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:25,920
new one. But it's we've gone over and it
all through here it says the planner

548
00:48:24,240 --> 00:48:30,359
determines when an application is
complete what they need to submit.

549
00:48:31,119 --> 00:48:38,800
I think that they have a submitted
application that should have come before

550
00:48:35,599 --> 00:48:43,599
us. There's been these delays, but when
they submitted their application, the

551
00:48:41,119 --> 00:48:47,920
old ordinance was in effect. I think
it's I think we should use the old one,

552
00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:52,319
but
>> I'll go with what everybody wants.

553
00:48:49,599 --> 00:48:57,040
» Yeah. Any further discussion? We're
ready to

554
00:48:55,119 --> 00:49:04,319
I appreciate the conversation. It's
helped me. Uh I don't like what's about

555
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:13,440
to happen, but here we go. Um all I got
to remember how it was stated. The um

556
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:19,440
the motion was to um to use the old the
old um or the old whatever it's called.

557
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:23,079
The old ordinance is
um all in favor

558
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:31,480
opposed.
Okay. So it's a 3 to two. We're under

559
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,480
the old ordinances.

560
00:49:33,599 --> 00:49:43,480
» Okay. So that moves us to
the next item which is the application

561
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,480
review.

562
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:54,640
» Madame chair, I apologize. Um but I am
gonna have to log off tonight.

563
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:58,079
Um and and uh I wish you good luck in
your the review for the rest of this

564
00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:07,119
evening.
>> Thank you, Amy. Appreciate your help.

565
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:13,119
» Okay. U K just a before we begin this.
I'm I just need a little clarification.

566
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:17,119
I've got these two things that look a
lot the same.

567
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:23,280
» They do. I apologize. I didn't put 2025
2026. The 2026 one is the small one. It

568
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:27,520
has um that that's the one you should
not be using

569
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:31,119
» the one that's page.
>> Okay.

570
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:36,240
» Um that that is the checklist based on
the 2025 ordinance.

571
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:42,160
» And because I'm new at chairing just a
procedural in the presentation. Is it

572
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:48,400
more efficient to just start at the
beginning and go through in order or

573
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:51,920
when we say that that u the applicant is
doing a presentation do we let them

574
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:56,400
speak for a bit and then we go through
this recommend

575
00:50:54,079 --> 00:51:01,520
» if you wanted the applicant to speak um
usually what we have done in the past is

576
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:06,160
this references the ordinance so it just
helps you walk through all the different

577
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:09,200
pieces of the ordinance um so it's for I
have gone through that but it's for the

578
00:51:07,599 --> 00:51:13,280
planning board to go through and just
look at the application, look at the

579
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:16,880
ordinance and say, "Do you have
questions? Are there things you still

580
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:20,800
need to know?" And that's when an
applicant gets a chance to, you know,

581
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,960
» so we just
>> answer any questions that come up as you

582
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:26,720
review.
>> We don't need the applicant to make a

583
00:51:24,319 --> 00:51:32,079
preamble. You can just jump in.
>> Not unless you wanted to. That would be

584
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:36,960
at the discretion of the board. I I just
unless unless I'm hearing any big

585
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:42,720
objections, I just assume we dive in.
And it would be helpful to me um if

586
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:49,359
Jessica
>> if Hey, tell me that if this is wrong to

587
00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:54,400
do if we just take a a quick on each one
of these a quick statement from you

588
00:51:51,359 --> 00:52:00,000
since since you were the planner and
review this that you know just a like

589
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:04,559
statement of the facts like this this
one is open this one case this is

590
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,960
whatever it just help us walk through
this.

591
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:11,280
» Sure. There's also on the side.
>> I I see that, but I'm not bringing in.

592
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:18,000
» Yeah.
>> Um, so we need to start with the

593
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:23,119
procedural items at the at the top.
>> Um, I think we've been through it's

594
00:52:19,599 --> 00:52:26,559
submitted on town office forms. Um,
>> so we get right down into the

595
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:30,240
» fees have been paid. I think you can you
can probably um

596
00:52:28,319 --> 00:52:35,920
» So you you'll stipulate that the first
four things are all all done.

597
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:40,880
» Yes. So, we're we're beginning with
accepted by the town office and and this

598
00:52:38,319 --> 00:52:46,640
says it was sent on March 6 that was
reviewed on March 12th. Um, so that's

599
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:50,240
that's affirmative.
>> Yes.

600
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:54,640
» Okay. And submitted on town office forms
which was confirmed. So, some of these

601
00:52:52,079 --> 00:53:02,319
are pedestrian. Applicant information
was provided, property location and

602
00:52:57,119 --> 00:53:05,839
details. So, so up through those we I
mean those are just kind of preunctery

603
00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:11,119
and those can we can just check those
off. So, um verification of ownership we

604
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,640
have a
>> the applicant submitted a lease that he

605
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:19,359
has with the actual land owner.
>> Okay.

606
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:25,280
» Um verifying that they have land
>> I'm I'm assuming that continues over to

607
00:53:22,319 --> 00:53:31,119
Melvin's widow passing. Okay.
>> Okay.

608
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:36,720
And the fees are paid and it says $500
32 $30 do at site review. So what status

609
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:43,160
» they they are fully paid up.
>> Okay.

610
00:53:38,240 --> 00:53:43,160
» Um estimated cost and construction

611
00:53:43,839 --> 00:53:47,760
» that wasn't
>> pardon.

612
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:51,119
» Uh the estimated cost of construction
was not listed.

613
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:57,440
» Is that important or is that why is it
not listed? There is reason behind that.

614
00:53:53,920 --> 00:54:01,440
» I think it depends. It v I mean we it
varies um so

615
00:53:59,119 --> 00:54:05,920
» and so we have the the engineering
details they did not provide us with

616
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:11,680
» um this is from chapter 3 so this
provide this is applicable to anything

617
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:19,040
» um and so
it is of the planning board could ask

618
00:54:13,839 --> 00:54:25,760
for a a cost um you know an of the cost
is usually asked for um if you're doing

619
00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:30,000
a big development and you're unsure of
make sure that the project can be

620
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:34,640
carried forward if it's approved
>> like they have the financial ability

621
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:37,760
» then they have the financial ability
>> um and does anybody have concern about

622
00:54:36,319 --> 00:54:41,280
that in this case
>> I mean I would like to hear it I don't

623
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:45,040
we don't need to deny the application
based on that but I would like to add

624
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:50,800
that that be provided at some point
>> could could you guys do you guys have a

625
00:54:47,839 --> 00:54:55,440
quick summary of that item or
>> I can get um

626
00:54:53,359 --> 00:55:00,960
» information regarding I think there was
an exhibit submitted with the

627
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:07,040
application that talks about
uh blue skies funding and capacity to to

628
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:15,040
do the site um
>> which is quite significant too

629
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:16,319
» and um so but you'll provide a quick
just a

630
00:55:15,839 --> 00:55:19,359
» yes
>> executive level

631
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:24,400
» is there anything that you can uh share
with that um this point Jesse

632
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:28,640
» maybe a little bit on the site But I
think there's depends what you want to

633
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:34,000
include in the total estimated cost. So
it's probably best to blue sky or we can

634
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:37,040
put that together.
>> Um

635
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:42,160
and again to Blake's point, I don't
think that's anything to fill everything

636
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:47,040
up to have. Um the description of the
project is covered in the narrative on

637
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:51,359
page two. Are there any questions about
that from anybody?

638
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:56,400
» I think that's [clears throat] we talked
about that a lot.

639
00:55:53,520 --> 00:56:02,040
um anticipated start and completion
dates were provided. Could you remind us

640
00:55:58,319 --> 00:56:02,040
uh what those are?

641
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:08,400
» If if you were to get approved,
when do you anticipate?

642
00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:12,240
» Well, yeah, this may be hard to answer
because you is sort of

643
00:56:11,323 --> 00:56:18,000
[laughter]
>> Can you give us a sense of

644
00:56:13,839 --> 00:56:23,680
» based upon the um uh interest they've
shown me in this site to get this

645
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:28,880
moving? I think very quickly.
>> And what's the duration generally for a

646
00:56:26,799 --> 00:56:32,720
project like this?
>> Uh

647
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:36,000
16 weeks maybe something like that.
>> Yeah, roughly.

648
00:56:33,839 --> 00:56:38,559
» Yeah, it a lot of it can determine
getting power. Sometimes there's delays

649
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,520
in that,
>> right?

650
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:46,319
» Yeah. All
>> weather, right? If you try to start, you

651
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:50,119
know, and again bad weather, it might go
into this area depending.

652
00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:57,119
» Um,
all local, state, and federal permits

653
00:56:55,359 --> 00:57:00,640
are required.
And

654
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:04,960
is that
is everything

655
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:10,720
done except this is hung up by this
process and the variance from the um

656
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:16,319
from the appeals board. Is that correct?
>> Yeah. And the the variance is um you

657
00:57:13,839 --> 00:57:19,359
know not a a I mean that's that's the
local it's not really

658
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:25,839
» right
>> per se but I I just noticed there

659
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:31,599
» um and they have the
um

660
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:36,720
the review um
in the packet that they submitted

661
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:42,799
the social
um they updated need to review only have

662
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:46,000
the highway permits from the department
and it is at the applicant's discretion

663
00:57:44,559 --> 00:57:51,359
what other permits they need. We don't
tell them what other

664
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:55,200
» is there a DOT concern with the access
from the road or not?

665
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:59,040
» Um because they would be coming off of
the Williams driveway. I don't believe

666
00:57:56,799 --> 00:58:02,000
they need to get a DOT access permit
because the

667
00:58:00,079 --> 00:58:07,920
» access is already provided. They might
need to double check if there is a high

668
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:11,920
volume of traffic anticipated other than
what a normal driveway would be

669
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:14,920
purchased. Okay. I don't believe that
was

670
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:21,839
» um site maps are provided.
>> If I could I just like to add there is

671
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,640
there we talked about at the last
hearing. There is a state permit that

672
00:58:23,680 --> 00:58:31,599
you need for um
um prior to construction that happens if

673
00:58:29,599 --> 00:58:36,160
you're uh disturbing more than an acre
of land and that occurs generally you

674
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:41,280
get that permit after approval. You
wouldn't you wouldn't get it until

675
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:47,119
you were you were approved. So you'd
have to do that but then before you

676
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:52,559
stuck a shovel in the ground. So that
would need to be done, but um

677
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:56,480
that would be additional permit.
>> Okay. But it's just for land

678
00:58:54,720 --> 00:59:01,319
disturbance, you wouldn't get that until
you knew what the land disturbance was

679
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:01,319
approved.

680
00:59:01,839 --> 00:59:11,920
» Um site maps are all provided. Anybody
have any questions or

681
00:59:10,079 --> 00:59:18,839
I know I've seen pictures of this
project myself. Anybody had any

682
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:18,839
questions or feeling missing anything?

683
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:28,160
» Madam Chair,
>> we we had a couple of additions that

684
00:59:24,480 --> 00:59:34,799
were a correction on um
on a butter property that came up last

685
00:59:30,640 --> 00:59:40,559
time which we can submit now. And um
there was a

686
00:59:37,119 --> 00:59:46,400
question last time or or a request on um
the landscape plan to provide

687
00:59:43,119 --> 00:59:51,559
landscaping all the way around. So I
would submit both those here.

688
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,559
» That would be great.

689
00:59:54,000 --> 01:00:02,319
» That's filling um
>> all all the way around. And then there

690
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:06,040
was a question here. Um
was shown all

691
01:00:10,799 --> 01:00:13,799
pass

692
01:00:16,319 --> 01:00:26,640
as just in the spirit of efficiency. Um
passing these Oh, we each got a copy. So

693
01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:31,280
really [laughter]
um if any questions come up, please

694
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:37,040
raise them as you get them. But I'm
gonna I'm going to proceed in the

695
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:43,040
interest of efficiency.
Um okay.

696
01:00:39,839 --> 01:00:48,480
So the next thing is water and sewage
>> all be together. Are they all the same?

697
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:52,480
» Water and water and sewage doesn't apply
for there'll be no usage.

698
01:00:49,839 --> 01:00:54,000
» That that's what I was uh just saying.
myself.

699
01:00:52,960 --> 01:01:03,520
» I have another one.
>> Yeah. No need a newness to this

700
01:00:58,319 --> 01:01:08,000
um facility basically not a burning.
Okay.

701
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:13,520
So
um and so the septic piece is not not

702
01:01:11,680 --> 01:01:18,960
relevant.
um vehicular and pedestrian traffic

703
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:22,559
in the valley of the Delta. It's an odd
sentence, but there's a narrative about

704
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:28,319
that
summary.

705
01:01:24,079 --> 01:01:32,720
This is not a hightra area, correct?
>> Yep. Uh that is correct. And that's on

706
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:39,200
the bottom of page 14, I think, um of
the application. And the facility is

707
01:01:34,960 --> 01:01:44,799
unmanned uh once it's operational and
does not generate any daily traffic, you

708
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:50,880
know, at all. um be a standard, you
know, maybe SUV type uh vehicle uh that

709
01:01:48,319 --> 01:01:55,760
would visit the site approximately, you
know, one time per month uh for

710
01:01:53,119 --> 01:02:01,520
potential routine maintenance. So, I do
I do have a question that came up in the

711
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:04,559
last time we were all together uh about
this

712
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:10,079
and tell me if I'm remembering this
incorrectly, but my recollection was

713
01:02:07,359 --> 01:02:17,440
that somebody had made a statement that
you had not planned to keep this roadway

714
01:02:13,839 --> 01:02:24,000
funded during the winter time. And I
guess I guess I have some concern about

715
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:31,040
that. just if an emergency vehicle ever
needs to get down there um that you know

716
01:02:29,119 --> 01:02:38,640
you know what winter's like.
>> Yeah. So uh so yes so generally

717
01:02:35,200 --> 01:02:44,640
um you know sites uh access you know
such as this is not um plowed

718
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:48,319
um unless one of the cell techs or
carriers you know needs to get in there

719
01:02:46,319 --> 01:02:52,720
for some sort of maintenance and a lot
of times they'll use a tracked vehicle

720
01:02:50,079 --> 01:02:58,720
or whatnot to get in. But if the board
wants to make that as a you know as a

721
01:02:54,880 --> 01:03:04,240
condition that you know if uh a snow
snow amount over a certain amount um

722
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:09,119
then the applicant needs to you know
have that open for emergency you know

723
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:12,559
vehicle purposes then you know I think
we could do that.

724
01:03:11,359 --> 01:03:16,640
» Um so
>> any comment on that? I mean, I I guess I

725
01:03:14,880 --> 01:03:21,119
guess I'll just say I'm I'm kind of
inclined to ask for that, but I mean,

726
01:03:18,319 --> 01:03:23,119
not at a ridiculous level, but you know,
I would

727
01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:26,400
» Do you have anything to add to that,
Jesse?

728
01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:30,000
» Um, it's not very common to to ask for
that. Um, but

729
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,760
» guy doesn't
>> I I just I guess I'm thinking of the and

730
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:38,799
tell me you guys tell me if I'm all wet
about this, but I'm just thinking of a

731
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:44,559
conversation we had with the the prior
code officer about just the concern and

732
01:03:42,799 --> 01:03:50,160
the challenges of getting emergency
vehicles down on the untained roads. And

733
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:54,400
it's hard to know what
I mean. You can't see into the future.

734
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:58,319
But of course, if you if you plow it,
nothing will ever happen. And if you

735
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:03,920
don't plow it, then you're going to need
to get in there. And if there's a foot

736
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:09,520
of snow and ice, that's not that's not
an easy thing to

737
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:12,240
» I'd rather driveway.
>> Okay.

738
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:17,520
» Yeah. I would just say that's that's a
good point. It's it is a driveway. I

739
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:22,480
mean, um, it is it's it's unmanned from
the standpoint. It's there's no one.

740
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:26,480
It's not occupied.
If you would, you know, think about

741
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:32,480
other
type uses like for example like uh say

742
01:04:29,359 --> 01:04:37,760
power lines or power poles, you know,
they have so access driveways too, but

743
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:43,440
that wouldn't be ever plowed. But just
some things to

744
01:04:39,039 --> 01:04:46,400
» if something malfunctions then then do
you get a front end loader and get

745
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:48,960
yourself in there? Is that basically
>> that's usually what happens. I mean, a

746
01:04:47,599 --> 01:04:51,920
lot of times when we do stuff in the
winter, you know, you might get a

747
01:04:50,319 --> 01:04:57,520
four-wheeler, a snowmobile, that kind of
thing. Um, sometimes we hike in,

748
01:04:55,680 --> 01:05:01,680
you know, I I I see what you're trying
to balance, but it's it's not typical, I

749
01:05:00,799 --> 01:05:05,920
would say.
>> Any other comments on that? You do. Does

750
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:13,039
the rest of the board feel comfortable
with not asking it to be filed?

751
01:05:08,319 --> 01:05:19,200
» Okay. it if the if the on one hand
they're saying that you know the we need

752
01:05:17,039 --> 01:05:23,119
to do this because there's coverage and
that you know it's it's providing a

753
01:05:20,960 --> 01:05:27,760
service to the community but then on the
other hand if there's emergency there

754
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:32,720
then there is no access to it in the
winter uh you know for emergency

755
01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:37,839
vehicles that
that does seem like a little

756
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:42,160
» you never know when you're going to get
an emergency See, so it's better to be a

757
01:05:40,559 --> 01:05:47,599
little bit proactive.
>> Well, I kind of feel that way, too. But

758
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:51,760
» I don't want to be unreasonable about
it, but I guess

759
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:55,599
» I mean, it's it's not it's certainly not
the applicant trying to be unreasonable.

760
01:05:53,599 --> 01:05:59,920
I think history tells us. We've got
mountaintop sites all over the place

761
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:05,520
that we don't have access to. I mean, I
ride up there on snowmobiles, on tracked

762
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:08,319
four-wheelers, you know, side by sides,
um,

763
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:11,760
» top of mountains, right?
Canon Mountain, there's one. So, this

764
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:15,440
» it's
>> they're not always drivable. Some of

765
01:06:13,839 --> 01:06:20,079
them are helicopter sites, but
>> right it's and as Jesse said, I mean, it

766
01:06:17,839 --> 01:06:23,760
is unmanned. They're they're only there
if they're swapping out some equipment

767
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:27,200
or something goes wrong and there's so
much of that equipment they even can

768
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:30,799
look and diagnose, you know, remotely.
It goes without saying that if you need

769
01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:34,839
to get in there, it's on you to
>> right

770
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:34,839
» make it.

771
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:42,640
» I think that if we added something like
that, even if we did, it's uninforcable,

772
01:06:42,319 --> 01:06:45,599
» right?
>> Nobody's going out and saying, "Oh, we

773
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:48,640
have
>> one extra inch of snow." Exactly.

774
01:06:47,599 --> 01:06:55,200
» Where's their plow?
>> Yeah.

775
01:06:50,799 --> 01:07:05,440
» Okay, I I'll move on. um because it it's
just seemed like a time to raise it. Um

776
01:07:00,559 --> 01:07:14,000
other information provided section 352.
What is that since you're um 16?

777
01:07:10,079 --> 01:07:17,680
» 3.5 is um if they need any other if we
if the planning board has asked for any

778
01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:23,760
other information necessary to show
compliance with the review criteria or

779
01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:27,760
the requirements next. So we have um
they all the other things they have to

780
01:07:26,319 --> 01:07:32,531
do to comply with the ordinance are
shown in the other articles.

781
01:07:29,839 --> 01:07:37,119
» Okay. So this fall under um the
[clears throat] I know there's I have

782
01:07:34,319 --> 01:07:44,960
health concerns for people who got it
but I remember there was a question of

783
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:49,440
you did a study on on how much
I don't know bad stuff were being

784
01:07:47,039 --> 01:07:53,760
emitted by that tower. uh radio
frequency missions.

785
01:07:50,960 --> 01:08:00,319
» Yes. And I see that's the next question
in box two. Who who did that study? Who

786
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:07,440
who did it? And when was it done? And is
it possible to get a an impartial third

787
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:10,799
party to go over the data?
So who again who did it and who paid for

788
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:16,920
it?
>> Yeah. And what was um you know

789
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:25,679
Blue Sky
did they contract the study out or was

790
01:08:23,839 --> 01:08:27,359
the study just done done?
>> Yeah.

791
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:32,640
» How long ago was it done?
>> Yeah, the study is done on behalf of

792
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:36,400
Verizon Wireless and you should have you
should have I'm sorry.

793
01:08:34,239 --> 01:08:39,440
» Oh, I'm Yeah, I thought you did that.
>> I did.

794
01:08:37,199 --> 01:08:46,000
» Did I say that last night? My name is
Cilio Stoango. I'm here on behalf of

795
01:08:42,239 --> 01:08:54,159
Verizon Wireless with Cisco Systems.
You should have a copy of this which is

796
01:08:48,640 --> 01:09:02,239
uh the MPE report available to you
and the MPE report

797
01:08:57,199 --> 01:09:10,319
was done on February 26, 2026.
>> Yeah. And the results of the MPE report

798
01:09:06,319 --> 01:09:15,600
are such that the level the level of RF
radiation

799
01:09:12,159 --> 01:09:24,560
uh emitted by any given sector of the
site is 3.16%.

800
01:09:19,839 --> 01:09:30,159
That means that is roughly 97%
below

801
01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:36,239
what the FCC deems safe.
beyond 100%

802
01:09:32,480 --> 01:09:41,520
is not safe. We had the discussion and I
remember there was a a person from the

803
01:09:39,759 --> 01:09:46,080
from one of the boards, I think it was
the appeals board that asked some

804
01:09:43,839 --> 01:09:51,520
detailed questions and we went over the
the data and the numbers as well, but

805
01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:55,440
it's extremely safe
and we we did this on behalf of Verizon

806
01:09:53,839 --> 01:10:00,239
because it's information that must be
submitted with the application. When you

807
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:04,400
say you did this on behalf of Verizon,
did Verizon

808
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,880
were they the people who wanted to study
them? They did they requested they pay

809
01:10:06,480 --> 01:10:09,120
for it?
>> Is required.

810
01:10:07,840 --> 01:10:12,800
» It's required by who?
>> By the FCC.

811
01:10:10,719 --> 01:10:17,280
» And we required in our application too.
>> Okay. And there's been no anecdotal

812
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:23,199
reports anywhere that there's been any
type of health issue?

813
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:30,400
» No sir. Uh so this is this RF is
relatively safe. If you recall last time

814
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:34,800
that I was here, um, we talked about RF,
we talked about light, we talked about

815
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:41,360
X-rays and gamma rays. X-rays and gamma
rays are extremely penetrating,

816
01:10:37,199 --> 01:10:48,560
energetic, and they can they can uh move
electrons in your genetic makeup and

817
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:54,400
cause mutations. Radio waves are not
the you know I was at a hearing two

818
01:10:50,880 --> 01:11:01,120
weeks ago and somebody asked in some one
of the residents asked could you give us

819
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:06,239
the burrito explanation a burrito like
the stuff you eat

820
01:11:03,440 --> 01:11:11,440
and u I did
uh a microwave in your house when you

821
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:17,520
stick a burrito and I I told him well do
you want a frozen burrito explanation or

822
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:23,679
a room temperature burrito explanation
and he said either way. So a microwave

823
01:11:20,640 --> 01:11:32,000
in your house in that compartment
has a wattage

824
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:37,120
power-wise of microwaves of 1500 watts
and it takes about two and a half

825
01:11:34,239 --> 01:11:43,840
minutes or so to warm up a room
temperature burrito or maybe less. As a

826
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:50,960
microwave has a wattage of 1500 watts.
If you were to put a site out here by

827
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:57,440
the street and bring that same burrito
and put it here, you wouldn't be able to

828
01:11:53,920 --> 01:12:03,760
warm it up. There's not enough energy.
The amount of wattage

829
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:09,040
being received by that burrito from the
new site nearby,

830
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:14,920
uh, make believe site for this example
is 0.0000. 0 0 0 0

831
01:12:15,040 --> 01:12:24,880
and then a number non-zero number watts.
That's the amount of energy emanating RF

832
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:31,199
energy emanating from one of those uh
sectors as compared to the energy in a

833
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:33,440
microwave of 1500 watts. Are you guys
with me?

834
01:12:32,000 --> 01:12:38,800
» The microwave door is closed
>> and the microwave door is closed. So,

835
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:45,040
you're safe. But the energy here is a
period followed by nine zeros and then a

836
01:12:42,159 --> 01:12:50,000
nonzero number watts. Extremely low
energy. That was the point

837
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:54,159
» and I accept that but I just don't I
mean these people are going to live

838
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:58,080
there constantly
microwave

839
01:12:56,480 --> 01:13:06,640
constant. That was my concern.
>> I see. So again this uh this uh

840
01:13:01,679 --> 01:13:12,960
thresholds are based on ILE E uh studies
that have been conducted on biological

841
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:18,800
specimens to determine what is safe and
what is not safe and therefore that

842
01:13:15,440 --> 01:13:25,600
threshold of 100% exists and that's why
we calculate to what percentage is the

843
01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:34,360
radiation effectively at at any distance
away from that site And that's in the

844
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:34,360
MPE report that you guys have access to.

845
01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:50,239
Um I'm just sort of looking down this
next set. I'll just read them quickly.

846
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:54,400
of engineers and other professionals
providing planning award approval

847
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:59,280
blocking block
conditions of approval block the

848
01:13:56,800 --> 01:14:05,679
building structure drawings.
I I think those are all there. The

849
01:14:03,440 --> 01:14:10,880
estimated peak traffic average daily
traffic the site map. I think that the

850
01:14:08,719 --> 01:14:17,199
next one we really should talk about is
the storm water and erosion plans. Are

851
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:21,840
there any concerns with 238 that I read
really quickly? I mean, I think

852
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:28,640
that
>> so storm water and erosion plans. I I

853
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:35,440
I guess I had a question
about somebody brought this up the last

854
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:41,440
meeting about the the driveway
and

855
01:14:37,199 --> 01:14:45,840
and storm water that will be shed by the
driveway. and I

856
01:14:43,679 --> 01:14:51,360
um you know have physical difficulty to
personally get out to the site. So I I

857
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:56,159
haven't seen it in person and I I don't
have an understanding of distances or

858
01:14:53,679 --> 01:15:02,320
what those what those concerns are. But
I um I I guess that's one of the reasons

859
01:15:00,159 --> 01:15:07,600
I just feel like you want to bring up
groundwater and erosion just

860
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:11,679
specifically
facility. I think the the plans are

861
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:17,760
there. Is that correct Kate? Yes, you
have in the packet there are um there is

862
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:22,320
a storm water and control plan
>> which which I remember seeing but did

863
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:27,760
did that include the driveway that leads
in there or are there any concerns? Has

864
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:33,840
anybody done any any analysis about
I mean cover

865
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:38,719
was for the entire um lot.
>> Okay. But it includes the driveway. We

866
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:42,120
have the number off of the map. Which
map it is

867
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:47,440
Jesse's going to go through that?
>> We got a maple.

868
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:51,679
» Okay.
So, we remember last time we did talk

869
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:57,040
about it, but we're going to talk about
it again.

870
01:15:53,440 --> 01:16:02,480
So in this case they're most so the
driveway is approximately 1,400 ft and I

871
01:16:00,239 --> 01:16:11,199
would say
don't quote me but about 60 to 70% of it

872
01:16:05,760 --> 01:16:17,120
follows an existing sort of uh path that
leads from the pastures out. There's a

873
01:16:14,080 --> 01:16:22,880
small section in the beginning uh from
the street um into approximately where

874
01:16:20,480 --> 01:16:30,520
the cemetery is where you'd come
straight off.

875
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:30,520
So that there's a good one.

876
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:50,080
and the the part that's existing.
>> So the part that so yeah,

877
01:16:46,800 --> 01:16:55,440
» you can take a look here. So um here's
friendship road um back in this area

878
01:16:53,520 --> 01:17:00,960
here is the cemetery,
>> right?

879
01:16:55,920 --> 01:17:06,800
» Um the home here and and all the the uh
barn and what have you is here. Um, and

880
01:17:04,719 --> 01:17:13,199
there's a driveway that kind of comes
around and heads out. And from about

881
01:17:10,400 --> 01:17:19,040
this portion on,
um, the driveway is certainly improved,

882
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:24,960
but it's following roughly sort of a a
farm path that's there. The part in the

883
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:29,600
beginning here is is newer. Um, and
that's to get access right out to the

884
01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:34,560
street here such that you can get back
there without having to go through, you

885
01:17:32,480 --> 01:17:38,560
know, around the farm can be where they
had the pathway and what have you.

886
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:42,239
There's actually a plenty of instead.
>> So, that's the part that's not

887
01:17:40,640 --> 01:17:46,880
previously existed.
>> Yes.

888
01:17:43,120 --> 01:17:51,280
» Um, there are also are a lot of um, you
mentioned coverts. There's several

889
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:56,560
coverts that are that are in here. Um
there are several swailes particularly

890
01:17:54,239 --> 01:18:02,719
on the downhill side there. Although we
are on the sort of the ridge line there

891
01:18:00,480 --> 01:18:06,960
» and and we we definitely storm. You can
see these arrows here. These arrows are

892
01:18:05,199 --> 01:18:11,840
pointing in the direction that the storm
water would go and yes you have a

893
01:18:10,080 --> 01:18:16,640
butters here and you can see that it
heads that way. However,

894
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:24,080
um as part of the drainage, we have
added swailes in here to capture any of

895
01:18:19,360 --> 01:18:30,960
the water from the driveway and carry a
swale down until we get to a portion

896
01:18:26,880 --> 01:18:35,679
where it can be well spread far below
um where the homes are um back towards

897
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:40,719
the wetland toward the the end of the
end of the property. So there are

898
01:18:37,520 --> 01:18:45,760
several storm water features that are
incorporated to do that.

899
01:18:42,080 --> 01:18:49,679
» And the the newer part that's that's up
on this first house that's close to this

900
01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:53,840
first house.
>> How's the water channel?

901
01:18:51,199 --> 01:18:56,640
» Okay. So there's actually um across the
street here there's a covert that comes

902
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:57,679
across and there's actually a wetland
right here.

903
01:18:57,280 --> 01:19:01,440
» Okay.
>> Um there's also a small wetland on this

904
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:05,760
side. We're kind of going in between
those and we have a cover here. You can

905
01:19:03,520 --> 01:19:09,760
see we're s taking that existing water.
We're going to put it through the cover

906
01:19:07,040 --> 01:19:16,480
and we also have a swale along this edge
too even though we're below this home.

907
01:19:12,719 --> 01:19:22,480
Um the most part there's another Yeah,
exactly. Up front here. Um, we do have

908
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:27,920
uh storm water features there as well
with a series of coverts to take the

909
01:19:24,719 --> 01:19:35,120
water from this side and bring it back
where the existing pond is and follow

910
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:40,159
the arrows of the existing storm water
where it head is now. So we have those

911
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:43,600
features on there. In addition to that
um one of those things on there is

912
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:50,400
erosion control plan. You can see there
we have an erodic control plan that at

913
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:56,960
the limits of work we show uh silk fence
and limits of disturbance. Um there as

914
01:19:53,679 --> 01:20:02,880
well it was talked about last time about
um and it was a former chair up who was

915
01:20:00,239 --> 01:20:09,199
had uh my recollection there had a lot
of experience with instruction and what

916
01:20:05,199 --> 01:20:15,440
have you and he was more um asking about
a written plan. So we did put a written

917
01:20:11,920 --> 01:20:20,719
plan together on that. So it's a
operation and maintenance plan um on&m

918
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:23,760
plan and uh a storm water pollution
prevention plan. So I'd like to submit

919
01:20:22,080 --> 01:20:29,600
that to the board and it just goes
through um basically

920
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:33,760
the process for how we chose and in
putting these erosion control barriers

921
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:39,760
and then the various devices that we
have in here, coverts, swailes, things

922
01:20:36,719 --> 01:20:43,920
like that, how they would be maintained.
are effective. So, we talked about that

923
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:48,960
last time. It didn't really say in the
bylaw that we needed to, but we brought

924
01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:53,440
up. So, we we did that. they can
certainly

925
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:59,280
» um and yeah that was part of the
question on the tip of my tongue if just

926
01:20:56,880 --> 01:21:04,159
my own experience doing project
management and construction

927
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:07,679
» best laid plans all the engineers you go
through your first winter and spring and

928
01:21:06,159 --> 01:21:13,920
sometimes some of these things don't
work the very clever

929
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:18,880
» and and it is on really large trust
written here that modifications need to

930
01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:22,960
be I mean um
>> yeah absolutely that the whole idea

931
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:27,040
that's a living document if you read in
there

932
01:21:23,840 --> 01:21:32,560
» yeah things need to be to maintain
so we're not really changing the

933
01:21:29,040 --> 01:21:40,080
direction of where it's flowing but we
are providing these what's called best

934
01:21:35,760 --> 01:21:48,560
management practices to help um separate
and and um convey any additional runoffs

935
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:52,159
that may be created um safely and
safely.

936
01:21:49,600 --> 01:21:57,880
» And without making me look look it up,
how let's say in a typical nonspe

937
01:21:58,320 --> 01:22:08,199
um how often do you anticipate vehicles
will be driving down that category?

938
01:22:04,080 --> 01:22:08,199
» So, um

939
01:22:08,480 --> 01:22:15,360
usually
there's so after it's built, usually the

940
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:22,080
most activity is when it's built, right?
closed. Exactly. After um each carrier

941
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:26,560
that may be on it, they may be going out
there approximately once a month uh to

942
01:22:24,159 --> 01:22:31,920
check on things. Um
>> additionally, the Blue Sky might go out

943
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:35,600
there once a month um or every couple
months. So, you're talking about

944
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:38,320
» not even trips per day, right?
>> So, so

945
01:22:36,719 --> 01:22:42,239
» half a dozen trips a month,
>> something like that. So, to put that

946
01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:47,040
into context,
>> um a single family home

947
01:22:44,960 --> 01:22:52,320
off top of my head may have seven to 10
trips a day and trips are like an end

948
01:22:49,679 --> 01:22:58,000
trip like if you go to work and come
back that's two trips right

949
01:22:54,159 --> 01:23:02,960
» so you know each of us has different
schedules but just globally overall 7 to

950
01:23:01,440 --> 01:23:08,239
10 something like that you know if you
go to work come back you go to the store

951
01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:13,440
so those are trips that would be 7 to 10
per home per day so we're talking

952
01:23:11,360 --> 01:23:16,800
» seven to 10 per month
>> you know maybe over a course of a couple

953
01:23:15,040 --> 01:23:19,920
of weeks or a month, right?
>> Once it's once it's established low

954
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:22,960
level. And why why would you say that?
Because

955
01:23:21,040 --> 01:23:27,679
» no one works here per se, it's it's
unmanned, right? The only time you go

956
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:32,719
here is upgrade. If there was something
that they couldn't remotely fix,

957
01:23:30,239 --> 01:23:36,159
» um you know, if you have to provide fuel
or something or uh

958
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:41,600
» adding equipment.
>> Adding equipment. Exactly. So that's one

959
01:23:38,800 --> 01:23:48,480
chart. Are there any questions of on
this topic from anybody else? Ready to

960
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:52,960
move on to the next. Um,
okay. The, uh, technical financial

961
01:23:51,120 --> 01:23:58,560
capacity. I think we kind of discussed
that already on headlines. I see an all

962
01:23:56,080 --> 01:24:05,760
over the map. I think we've got that.
Um, fire protection provisions.

963
01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:14,880
Um, there's a
Could you just review that real fast?

964
01:24:09,679 --> 01:24:18,880
Um, so let's see. Yep. Uh, page 15 on
the application.

965
01:24:16,639 --> 01:24:22,639
Um, and maybe Jesse can speak to this,
but we're constructing uh, and you can

966
01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:27,280
show that on the plan there. Access
drive that's sufficient for, you know,

967
01:24:24,960 --> 01:24:32,639
emergency service vehicles with parking
and turnaround. Um, you know, adjacent

968
01:24:30,719 --> 01:24:37,600
to that fence compound. Could you show
that on there? Are there

969
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:41,280
» and if there's any concerns I'm not sure
Kate if the fire department has seen

970
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:47,280
these plans but if there's anything that
the fire department

971
01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:51,440
» is there any alarm like if something
caught on fire

972
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:55,120
» the equipment has alarms and they're
they're monitored okay by them yeah

973
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:59,679
there's uh they have basically just like
a similar to like a smoke detector a

974
01:24:57,120 --> 01:25:05,199
heat detector in those they do have them
one of the other things is the compound

975
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:11,440
is you know in this case it's uh get the
exact size 50 by 72 and you'll notice

976
01:25:08,239 --> 01:25:15,600
inside that um
right now there's only one carrier on

977
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:20,159
this on this pad but they're separated
apart and in between them is stone like

978
01:25:18,400 --> 01:25:24,480
stone mulch. So the idea is that it's
not vegetation. It's not something that

979
01:25:22,000 --> 01:25:29,840
can start on fire. If a fire were to
occur, is somebody going to have to see

980
01:25:27,040 --> 01:25:34,159
it or is somebody is there an alarm that
>> there's the cabinets have the cabinets,

981
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:37,440
» right? So So somebody will be notified
off site that that's

982
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:40,159
» similar to a home like if you're on the
smoke detector will go off or something

983
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:42,560
like that. Yeah. Very similar to that,
>> right? But

984
01:25:41,120 --> 01:25:46,000
» they're UL rated cabinets,
>> but the fire department isn't going to

985
01:25:44,239 --> 01:25:49,440
know about the smoke detector
necessarily.

986
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:54,400
» No, no, not generally. No. A lot of
times they'll get a um they'll either

987
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:56,320
have a code to the gate or a lock or
there could be a um

988
01:25:55,440 --> 01:25:59,679
» like a box.
>> A knock box.

989
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:04,639
» Right. Now I get I get that part. Like
if the fire starts, do we have to wait

990
01:26:02,560 --> 01:26:09,440
for somebody to observe it or is is
there like like in a security system for

991
01:26:07,920 --> 01:26:14,320
» very similar to that. So there's
something called a knock. Each carrier

992
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:19,120
Yeah. as a network operation center and
inside they monitor you know whether the

993
01:26:17,120 --> 01:26:24,639
site's up or down. whether there's
power. Um, some of them are pretty

994
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:29,120
sophisticated can monitor like much fuel
left in the generator. Um, you know,

995
01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:34,400
whether they're uh, yeah, there's over
temperature, things like that. So, that

996
01:26:32,080 --> 01:26:35,600
network operation center does monitor
that.

997
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:38,960
» Okay.
>> But it does not automatically go to the

998
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:44,639
fire department. There would have to be
>> Well, they may do the in between call,

999
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:48,239
but some somebody remakeware
something a miss is happening. Correct.

1000
01:26:47,199 --> 01:26:53,679
Yep.
Um any any other questions on that

1001
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:59,280
article from anybody?
So let's move to the um article 7

1002
01:26:56,639 --> 01:27:05,040
general performance standards
um buffer areas. Uh we got this is the

1003
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:09,120
landscaping
easier. We have the landscaping plan.

1004
01:27:07,280 --> 01:27:14,880
Are there any questions on that? I think
it looks my quick first glance. if they

1005
01:27:12,239 --> 01:27:18,880
complied with what they requested to
kind of 360 surround.

1006
01:27:17,679 --> 01:27:24,159
» Daniel know you had a question there
about uh something about um making sure

1007
01:27:21,760 --> 01:27:31,120
that they were plants that were on a
particular list. Both of those are on

1008
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:35,600
there. Um the uh the cedar which is a
type of arbor the arborite which is a

1009
01:27:33,199 --> 01:27:40,719
type of cedar and the white spruce are
both on that main list. If there is a

1010
01:27:38,639 --> 01:27:46,080
concern about
so um

1011
01:27:43,440 --> 01:27:49,920
deer don't like white spruce they do
like arborite so if they if there's a

1012
01:27:48,480 --> 01:27:53,440
concern about that there's an
alternative or we could use a viburnum

1013
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:58,480
or something like that if that's a
concern really realistically though I

1014
01:27:56,480 --> 01:28:05,920
think we're
my recollection is we're about I would

1015
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:13,679
say about 25 ft lower than the street
and we're about uh at least 900 ft or so

1016
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:18,880
back. Um so it's more for sort of long
views or the closest of butter when

1017
01:28:16,719 --> 01:28:24,159
there might be winter conditions. And
that was the whole idea of going all the

1018
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:27,840
way around with them. But um
we we'd be open to that if you do like

1019
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:33,920
an alternative there. But that's what
we'd uh that was what was discussed last

1020
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:41,040
time. We tried to be tentive to to uh
that request.

1021
01:28:36,080 --> 01:28:46,239
So, I am looking through
article 7, buffer, construction

1022
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:50,880
standards, electrical. We're not in the
historical village district.

1023
01:28:49,120 --> 01:28:57,120
Um
the the lighting and noise both meet the

1024
01:28:54,239 --> 01:29:01,360
standards. Is this is this the place
where we talk about the generator

1025
01:28:59,679 --> 01:29:05,199
decibels or um
>> you have a place in article 10 that

1026
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:11,679
» Okay. So, I'll wait for that.
Um, and on 7.13,

1027
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:20,920
is this the place where we ask if
they've gotten the the little letter

1028
01:29:13,679 --> 01:29:20,920
from the from the state about there's no

1029
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:34,560
» Okay, perfect.
>> Um, anybody have any questions? So, go

1030
01:29:34,239 --> 01:29:38,239
ahead.
>> I do. Um, I don't know if this applies,

1031
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:44,320
but I'll just bring it up because I see
it. That emergency services when you

1032
01:29:41,840 --> 01:29:50,800
gave the initial presentation, you said
EMS, you would have a a separate box or

1033
01:29:48,480 --> 01:29:55,120
something for them so they could get
notified quicker.

1034
01:29:53,600 --> 01:29:59,520
» I think what we were talking about was
the gate, the Knox box for the for the

1035
01:29:57,679 --> 01:30:03,679
gate. Can you just talk about that
though while that got your attention

1036
01:30:01,440 --> 01:30:10,000
about the emergency services because the
EMS um having been in the medical

1037
01:30:07,360 --> 01:30:15,360
service for 40 years I know the value of
being in a couple of minutes quicker. So

1038
01:30:12,719 --> 01:30:22,320
Julie did you have
have there been complaints that EMS

1039
01:30:18,239 --> 01:30:26,960
hasn't gone down quick enough or is that
an issue? So,

1040
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:32,159
» because the ambulances by they have to
have a chart and they they log in, log

1041
01:30:29,840 --> 01:30:36,320
out, what time they got there, what time
they dropped the patient off. Have have

1042
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:40,320
you seen anything to indicate that
there's been a problem

1043
01:30:38,000 --> 01:30:42,480
» with cell coverage and people getting
there and

1044
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:48,639
» exactly with the timing?
>> I would have to ask specifics on that.

1045
01:30:46,239 --> 01:30:53,600
I'm sure they can give you some.
Anecdotally,

1046
01:30:50,480 --> 01:30:57,920
there is an issue
with that in several sections of town,

1047
01:30:57,520 --> 01:31:01,600
right?
>> Where if the radio is not working,

1048
01:30:59,840 --> 01:31:06,000
sometimes cell service does not work.
I've heard of that. But if you would

1049
01:31:03,360 --> 01:31:08,159
like that data, I can get that from
emergency services.

1050
01:31:07,040 --> 01:31:12,880
» I think that would be good because
that's come up and that's one of the the

1051
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:18,719
positive points that this
>> could bring to because the ambulances

1052
01:31:15,760 --> 01:31:20,800
they they have a lock. They know when
they get the call. They know when they

1053
01:31:20,239 --> 01:31:25,199
get the
>> EMS, fire, and police.

1054
01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:27,840
» Yeah, that would be interesting to get
back.

1055
01:31:25,520 --> 01:31:32,239
» Just to weigh in on this specific
standard, in the ordinance, it says that

1056
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:36,480
they need to have the application
reviewed by the three departments and

1057
01:31:34,880 --> 01:31:38,480
have them weigh in.
>> I haven't seen that.

1058
01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:42,080
» I
>> has that been submitted?

1059
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:44,880
» Um,
I don't believe I have submitted it to

1060
01:31:43,520 --> 01:31:46,400
the three chiefs yet.
>> Okay.

1061
01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:49,440
» Okay. So, so
>> that is something I usually do.

1062
01:31:48,080 --> 01:31:53,199
» So, you'll take care of them. But,
aren't we talking about two They're both

1063
01:31:51,280 --> 01:31:57,600
important, but two different things.
>> You're you're talking about emergency

1064
01:31:55,840 --> 01:32:01,600
services to the site,
>> but you're talking about the fact that

1065
01:32:00,239 --> 01:32:07,440
this tower
>> would would give more service that would

1066
01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:13,280
benefit like there was something that
these guys talked about

1067
01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:16,719
about letting local emergency utilize
that.

1068
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:23,600
» Yeah. So I think there's two things.
There's one item is the access to

1069
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:29,120
E911
by a resident using their cell phone.

1070
01:32:26,159 --> 01:32:34,480
Obviously that act is going to be
enhanced by the proposed site. You can

1071
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:40,560
go to Walmart,
buy a phone, don't not having a

1072
01:32:38,320 --> 01:32:46,719
subscription to a carrier, turn the
phone on and be able to use that phone

1073
01:32:43,199 --> 01:32:51,280
to connect with emergency services
at any sales site, including the

1074
01:32:48,719 --> 01:32:56,480
proposed site. So, that's one aspect of
it, the E911.

1075
01:32:53,280 --> 01:33:03,199
But I think you guys are also discussing
the fire department

1076
01:32:58,719 --> 01:33:09,120
emergency in general having an antenna
at the proposed site to extend the

1077
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:14,320
reliability of the service that they
have to communicate amongst themselves

1078
01:33:12,800 --> 01:33:22,480
» and and that's what you're going to get
some data on. So I know that

1079
01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:26,960
our so
for E911 and communications that's those

1080
01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:32,239
would be county tower that would be a
county technically a county tower. I

1081
01:33:29,600 --> 01:33:37,440
know they always have interest in being
colllocated on any tower in the area

1082
01:33:34,719 --> 01:33:41,360
because it does provide better coverage
especially

1083
01:33:39,199 --> 01:33:49,840
with the digital
>> um system but also having coverage

1084
01:33:46,560 --> 01:33:54,000
um so I yes it's twofold I can get I can
get information if you would like I can

1085
01:33:52,159 --> 01:33:58,639
ask for information from the county on
that and I can ask for information from

1086
01:33:56,719 --> 01:34:03,040
emergency services to cover both those
questions.

1087
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:06,639
I also um regarding 7.12 emergency
services, all applications shall be

1088
01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:11,520
reviewed by Walterboro fire chief,
police chief, EMS chief. I did send them

1089
01:34:08,560 --> 01:34:14,480
the pre-application back in November um
before we had the final application. I

1090
01:34:13,440 --> 01:34:17,920
have not sent them the final
application, but regarding the the

1091
01:34:16,080 --> 01:34:23,520
pre-application,
um

1092
01:34:19,760 --> 01:34:28,880
all three of the chiefs had no um no
further questions or concerns. They did

1093
01:34:25,199 --> 01:34:31,920
say um that area has been difficult at
times. It would be a missed opportunity

1094
01:34:30,159 --> 01:34:35,679
if we did not consider some space on the
tower going in for public safety

1095
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:40,320
communications.
I believe Chief Speltzer feels the same

1096
01:34:37,440 --> 01:34:43,920
way. So I'm in support of um the tower
in that regard. Otherwise, I do not have

1097
01:34:41,920 --> 01:34:48,000
further questions or concerns.
>> So you'll get all that stuff on a lot.

1098
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:53,440
» So I will I will send them the updated
tower location and make sure they don't

1099
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:59,040
have but regarding the transition.
Does that answer questions and

1100
01:34:55,679 --> 01:35:04,480
» and to further answer the question um
exhibit 8 to the application there's a

1101
01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:10,320
statement from the applicant and under
section 10.28.3.9.4

1102
01:35:07,679 --> 01:35:15,120
Four, uh, there's a statement by Blue
Sky to allow, and I think this is what

1103
01:35:12,719 --> 01:35:19,760
was being discussed, allow local and
county emergency operation communication

1104
01:35:17,199 --> 01:35:24,520
devices to be installed and maintained
uh, free of charge uh, at the site.

1105
01:35:26,639 --> 01:35:31,600
» Thank you.
>> Okay, moving on to article eight. Not

1106
01:35:29,199 --> 01:35:34,960
hearing any objections. Oh, yeah. So,
storm water management and erosion

1107
01:35:33,120 --> 01:35:40,000
control is here, but we just finished
talking about that. Um, how do

1108
01:35:37,840 --> 01:35:43,000
geological cells scale of groundwater
not?

1109
01:35:44,320 --> 01:35:55,679
Um,
so standards met

1110
01:35:50,159 --> 01:36:02,880
any any issues on on 8K that that are
open items, blood zone not applicable

1111
01:36:00,639 --> 01:36:11,120
standards met.
Um, no, they're within um they are not

1112
01:36:07,040 --> 01:36:17,120
within a flood zone. Um, they are
um within the setbacks of um river

1113
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:21,840
stream broken wetlands.
Um, they are not close enough to require

1114
01:36:20,159 --> 01:36:28,000
buffers.
Um, just reminding myself what 8.6 says.

1115
01:36:26,080 --> 01:36:32,800
Uh, no activity shall be permitted in
any area where the soil is rated severe,

1116
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:39,120
very severe for proposed activity.
According to the county soil survey, the

1117
01:36:34,719 --> 01:36:45,280
soils in that are fine. Um, the county
soil map didn't didn't have anything on

1118
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:51,440
there. um
they're not integrate from watershed and

1119
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:54,400
we think for
uh proposal will not a lone earth

1120
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:59,360
convention with existing activities
adversely affect water the quality or

1121
01:36:57,119 --> 01:37:06,000
quantity of groundwater both on and off
site as they're doing limited earth work

1122
01:37:03,440 --> 01:37:09,679
um they're not doing any sort of um
blasting or anything like that u and

1123
01:37:08,480 --> 01:37:15,040
they're not doing a lot of soil
disturbance less than soil disturbance

1124
01:37:11,840 --> 01:37:20,400
» so So, do we know for a fact that um
there's no ledge interfering with the

1125
01:37:17,520 --> 01:37:25,119
below ground?
>> We don't believe there is before

1126
01:37:22,639 --> 01:37:29,520
construction. Um if this could go
forward, there is a a sight specific uh

1127
01:37:27,679 --> 01:37:32,320
boring that takes place.
>> Okay.

1128
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:36,880
» Um but um there are some you go out
there, there are some existing

1129
01:37:34,159 --> 01:37:41,199
excavations around just from the farm
and based on our review of that there

1130
01:37:39,119 --> 01:37:45,199
wasn't anything obvious there.
unlikely. But but in that in the event

1131
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:48,560
that
>> you know you say its name there's

1132
01:37:47,199 --> 01:37:54,800
budgets everywhere.
>> Um then then

1133
01:37:51,840 --> 01:38:01,440
» this what you were just talking about
could become relevant or

1134
01:37:56,719 --> 01:38:04,960
» well um 8.4 generally talks about um
things being stored underground.

1135
01:38:03,119 --> 01:38:07,440
» Okay. So um
>> so not not

1136
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:11,440
» no activity shall locate, storage,
discharge or per permit discharge of any

1137
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:15,600
treated, untreated or inadequately
treated liquid, gaseous or solid

1138
01:38:13,360 --> 01:38:19,600
materials of such nature, quantity,
obnoxiousness, toxicity or temperature

1139
01:38:17,679 --> 01:38:23,280
that it has the potential to run out,
percolate or wash into the surface

1140
01:38:21,199 --> 01:38:28,000
ground waters so as to contaminate,
pollute or harm such waters or cause

1141
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:31,440
nuisances such as objectionable shore
deposits, floating or submerged debris,

1142
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:35,760
oil, scum, color, odor, taste,
unsightliness, or be harmful to human

1143
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:41,199
animal platform or frankly
>> well read [laughter]

1144
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:43,679
so that's that's even even if they
discover a little ledge that that

1145
01:38:42,880 --> 01:38:46,880
shouldn't
>> I mean up to discussion of the board but

1146
01:38:46,239 --> 01:38:53,280
» okay
>> yeah but anybody have any comment or all

1147
01:38:51,040 --> 01:39:00,800
right I'm going to move on to article
nine um the so explain to me it says

1148
01:38:58,480 --> 01:39:05,119
waiver requests are not applicable at
the beginning of article Could you

1149
01:39:03,119 --> 01:39:14,719
explain what that means?
>> Yeah. Um, so the traffic impact analysis

1150
01:39:10,800 --> 01:39:18,080
um is required for um demonstrating the
impact of the proposed project on the

1151
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:22,159
capacity level of service safety of
adjacent streets. shall be required if

1152
01:39:20,480 --> 01:39:28,080
the project or expansion will provide
parking for 50 or more vehicles. Okay.

1153
01:39:24,400 --> 01:39:32,400
Or generate more than 100 trips um
during the AM or PM peak hour based on

1154
01:39:30,480 --> 01:39:35,280
chip generation service addition.
>> So so that's it's really not

1155
01:39:33,760 --> 01:39:38,880
» so they're they're below the standards
that we would apply for a traffic impact

1156
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:45,280
analysis.
For example, the you know the um new um

1157
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:49,440
main health was required to do a traffic
impact analysis

1158
01:39:47,360 --> 01:39:51,119
high volume of traffic in and out. This
is not that. So they don't correct.

1159
01:39:50,880 --> 01:39:58,560
Okay.
>> They don't meet the standard

1160
01:39:53,040 --> 01:40:02,960
» and you skip over um 8.8.
>> I kind of I kind of whipped through 8.8.

1161
01:40:01,920 --> 01:40:09,119
Yeah.
>> I have I have a flex of I just

1162
01:40:06,480 --> 01:40:13,600
» No, no worries. Um,
as far as the aesthetics, which I know

1163
01:40:11,679 --> 01:40:20,080
they're picked around by a lot of
people, myself included, but the

1164
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:25,320
aesthetics I think go and I remember,
you know, first practice gave some type

1165
01:40:22,159 --> 01:40:25,320
of character,

1166
01:40:25,520 --> 01:40:33,360
you know, values and how much they would
or would be. Now, so the part I think

1167
01:40:30,719 --> 01:40:40,239
it's fair to say a house is going to be
probably your biggest expense in

1168
01:40:36,960 --> 01:40:44,719
if people
see that power there. How did you come

1169
01:40:43,360 --> 01:40:48,800
with those? What were the matrix of
getting those numbers? Because you had a

1170
01:40:46,639 --> 01:40:53,840
a nice whale, but I didn't understand
how you got the matrix of how your house

1171
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:58,800
was or how much it would stay or how
much it would go down. Wouldn't you have

1172
01:40:55,360 --> 01:41:03,760
to learn to sell that? you know because
you say you lose 10% money because

1173
01:41:00,719 --> 01:41:07,600
people don't want to be around a 90
that's a lot of money for people that's

1174
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:15,920
their life so I just want to know what
the matrix was on that presentation that

1175
01:41:11,199 --> 01:41:25,400
presentation that you that you did
>> yeah so this is a study um provided by

1176
01:41:20,639 --> 01:41:25,400
Vern Gardner Uh,

1177
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:32,679
let me see if I can

1178
01:41:58,639 --> 01:42:08,480
So,
uh, the study uh was an impact study to

1179
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:15,600
determine whether or not proximity to
and view of a proposed cellular

1180
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:21,760
communications tower adversely affects
the potential selling price of any

1181
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:28,159
single family dwelling. And what he did
here is he has several different uh

1182
01:42:26,159 --> 01:42:31,159
examples
um

1183
01:42:32,080 --> 01:42:40,960
and I can I can go through you know
through each of these but just more of

1184
01:42:37,440 --> 01:42:45,679
the process that he used. Did he go to
various sites around similar? Well, I

1185
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:51,560
think
>> so. Let's see. We can go through.

1186
01:42:55,040 --> 01:43:03,679
Um there are six uh the following six
examples are drawn from an impact study

1187
01:43:01,040 --> 01:43:08,000
uh for Rocklin. Once again, the dates
here are relevant. He looked at the

1188
01:43:06,080 --> 01:43:11,000
prior sale.
Um,

1189
01:43:15,040 --> 01:43:26,199
so the first one is in Rockland, Maine.
The second one is in Wisconsin.

1190
01:43:20,800 --> 01:43:26,199
Um, the third one is in Wisconsin.

1191
01:43:27,520 --> 01:43:36,560
And what he did was
uh have you seen the you have this

1192
01:43:35,520 --> 01:43:40,000
I don't have
>> Yeah.

1193
01:43:38,320 --> 01:43:43,239
» So
let's see.

1194
01:43:43,760 --> 01:43:50,080
It says the scope of my research
includes the discovery of single family

1195
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:54,960
dwellings that have sold that are
approximate to and have a view of a

1196
01:43:51,920 --> 01:44:00,080
tower. Each example was verified with
the real estate agent who sold that

1197
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:04,880
property and other calculations were
performed to determine whether or not

1198
01:44:02,239 --> 01:44:13,119
there is any impact on the selling price
of single family dwellings due to its

1199
01:44:07,840 --> 01:44:21,360
approximate to and view of a cell tower.
Um, let's see.

1200
01:44:17,520 --> 01:44:25,000
Says, uh, Waldboroough is situated.
None of that there.

1201
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:50,840
think that he provided a a summary in
here.

1202
01:45:01,360 --> 01:45:11,119
So on on each of the of these examples,
for example, if we look at the one for

1203
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:17,760
uh Cumberland, Maine,
um we said the property previously

1204
01:45:13,679 --> 01:45:25,119
transferred on June 9th, 2013
um for 444 440,000.

1205
01:45:22,560 --> 01:45:32,000
That represents an increase of 30% when
the median selling price increased by

1206
01:45:28,239 --> 01:45:37,280
24% same period. Uh it's located with an
upscale single family subdivision. The

1207
01:45:34,800 --> 01:45:41,040
particular dwelling is a custom quality
colonial

1208
01:45:38,960 --> 01:45:47,040
uh set among the trees. Uh the
communication tower is visible from the

1209
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:51,600
driveway and within 500 ft. According to
the real estate agent, the presence of

1210
01:45:48,800 --> 01:45:56,239
the cell tower did not influence uh the
selling price. And I think that you know

1211
01:45:53,760 --> 01:46:01,840
that's the results that you know he he
has in in each of these. Um, in fact, I

1212
01:45:59,679 --> 01:46:06,719
think what, you know, we see more often
than not when someone is buying a house,

1213
01:46:04,480 --> 01:46:12,960
they're looking at their phone to see if
there's any coverage, um, and that that

1214
01:46:09,199 --> 01:46:18,719
adds, you know, value to, um, you know,
a location to be able to have, uh,

1215
01:46:15,119 --> 01:46:22,080
communication, you know, services. So,
you know, he looked at, you know, the

1216
01:46:20,239 --> 01:46:27,600
sales price
in proximity to, you know, a

1217
01:46:24,400 --> 01:46:31,280
communications tower um and found that
there was no, you know, looking at data

1218
01:46:30,080 --> 01:46:37,440
that there was no
>> I'd like to know his methodology because

1219
01:46:34,639 --> 01:46:45,520
I lived in Portland. Those houses go up
by the week. It's a beautiful slide. So

1220
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:53,760
I again question how he did how his
house in evaluating which house.

1221
01:46:49,119 --> 01:47:00,880
» Yeah, I I I mean there's there's you
know not a lot of um you know there

1222
01:46:56,719 --> 01:47:08,239
isn't any data in in Walder. Um so this
is you know data that he was able to you

1223
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:15,560
know obtain you know here in u Maine uh
with you know with um you know

1224
01:47:10,960 --> 01:47:15,560
residences that were

1225
01:47:15,920 --> 01:47:26,320
let's see
um you know much much uh closer you know

1226
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:31,199
400 ft
um

1227
01:47:28,960 --> 01:47:35,159
so I I can get more information on this
on this report, but

1228
01:47:40,320 --> 01:47:44,440
» questions or comments about

1229
01:47:51,440 --> 01:48:00,480
» Okay, I'm gonna proceed. Oh, go ahead.
>> I have a question.

1230
01:47:57,199 --> 01:48:00,480
Okay, sounds good.

1231
01:48:00,960 --> 01:48:08,320
These seem to be all
I mean there's summaries of properties

1232
01:48:06,480 --> 01:48:13,920
and opinions, but it doesn't seem like
there's any actual before and after

1233
01:48:11,440 --> 01:48:17,760
appraised value. Like they didn't have a
property that sold before a tower went

1234
01:48:16,159 --> 01:48:23,040
off. This was the appraised value and
then there was one after. It's super

1235
01:48:20,239 --> 01:48:27,280
hard. There's so many factors on market
value that I don't know if it's

1236
01:48:25,520 --> 01:48:33,760
something you could actually come up
with um

1237
01:48:31,040 --> 01:48:41,840
to prove one way or the other. Well, I
think the analysis that is done here is

1238
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:46,239
looking at the sale of properties that
are in close proximity to a

1239
01:48:44,719 --> 01:48:53,360
communications
tower and asking the question as to

1240
01:48:50,400 --> 01:49:00,320
whether or not that proximity to the
tower had any impact on the sales price.

1241
01:48:57,199 --> 01:49:06,800
But to Daniel's point, I mean that it
doesn't I'm about saying that it's

1242
01:49:03,600 --> 01:49:10,800
good or bad or or otherwise, but there's
so many other variables that I mean just

1243
01:49:08,960 --> 01:49:15,040
watching the way the housing markets
behave since the pandemic. There's so

1244
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:20,159
many other, you know, variables that
could have happened over the course of

1245
01:49:16,639 --> 01:49:24,880
the study that would have affected
value. So it's hard to to attribute it

1246
01:49:22,480 --> 01:49:30,320
to that one thing, you know,
>> right? So the I mean I think it was a

1247
01:49:26,639 --> 01:49:36,639
very specific question that um Vern was
asking was whether or not the presence

1248
01:49:33,119 --> 01:49:41,920
of the tower not as and I agree with you
not any of those other circumstances but

1249
01:49:39,199 --> 01:49:47,520
whether or not the presence of the tower
had an impact uh on the price.

1250
01:49:46,000 --> 01:49:52,639
» Again
you know

1251
01:49:49,520 --> 01:49:58,239
the values have been just ridiculously
in the last number of years. So, one

1252
01:49:55,119 --> 01:50:02,880
could have washed or the other. It's I I
would I guess it sounds to me like, and

1253
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:05,920
this is a I'm not sure how you would do
this any better, but

1254
01:50:05,280 --> 01:50:11,199
» I agree.
>> It's inconclusive

1255
01:50:08,080 --> 01:50:15,520
» and I think there's a lot of
there's a lot of spelling errors and I

1256
01:50:13,280 --> 01:50:21,119
think some of the commentary is
mismatched with the properties. Um, I

1257
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:25,360
don't want to be hyperritical. I don't
think that this type of analysis works

1258
01:50:23,199 --> 01:50:31,520
in this area because the houses aren't
cookie cutter. Like one might be I mean

1259
01:50:27,920 --> 01:50:35,360
one of these right here went up 30% when
other properties went up 24% but there

1260
01:50:33,840 --> 01:50:40,840
might have been another factor. I'm not
saying that I just don't think that this

1261
01:50:37,840 --> 01:50:40,840
is

1262
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:47,280
in my opinion conclusive but I don't
think that there's anything you could

1263
01:50:44,880 --> 01:50:53,119
provide otherwise that would be more
convincing. I think it's just a lot of

1264
01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:57,600
us opinions and
it's all it is is opinion just like my

1265
01:50:55,040 --> 01:51:02,400
opinion now is that contradicts some of
these other people but it's still just

1266
01:51:00,480 --> 01:51:08,320
an opinion. I don't know if I
necessarily think that this is a

1267
01:51:04,560 --> 01:51:12,800
qualitative report but there's no it's
looking at properties but it's not

1268
01:51:09,920 --> 01:51:15,679
looking at appraised value before and
appraised value after.

1269
01:51:16,480 --> 01:51:22,080
like I don't think the appraiser has
been in these properties. They've gone

1270
01:51:19,760 --> 01:51:26,560
to photos, but they haven't there's not
a full appraisal here. So,

1271
01:51:24,000 --> 01:51:30,320
» and and I would add that this does not
appear to be held to any sort of

1272
01:51:28,239 --> 01:51:33,920
specific standard. So, we don't know if
the person who put this to report

1273
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:39,679
together did have a buy a house of a
negative impact and chose not to include

1274
01:51:36,719 --> 01:51:44,880
it for X, Y, or Z reason. So that was
the reason you may have found nothing.

1275
01:51:42,639 --> 01:51:47,840
» They just the document is not
particularly compelling.

1276
01:51:46,239 --> 01:51:53,040
» I Yeah, there was and this is in
response to another letter submitted by

1277
01:51:50,639 --> 01:51:59,199
an abuter which I have the same issues
with. I think that it's he said she said

1278
01:51:56,800 --> 01:52:05,920
sort to speak. I don't think it's
qualitative or not to face sort of

1279
01:52:02,320 --> 01:52:12,080
» in my opinion. So, I I don't necessarily
disagree, but what I was looking for

1280
01:52:07,760 --> 01:52:18,480
here is um and it was I had it out of
order. Um but on page 27, the

1281
01:52:15,520 --> 01:52:24,560
reconciliation and conclusion, which
just might put some context to this. The

1282
01:52:21,599 --> 01:52:30,400
point of this exercise is to analyze an
element of value. The element of value

1283
01:52:27,840 --> 01:52:35,840
is whether or not a communications tower
has any effect on the selling price of

1284
01:52:32,800 --> 01:52:42,239
single family dwellings. To determine
that to to determine this, the appraiser

1285
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:47,119
consultant located towers and various
communities both local and distant. With

1286
01:52:45,360 --> 01:52:51,360
that information, the appraiser
consultant first spoke with the real

1287
01:52:48,800 --> 01:52:56,960
estate agents to inquire as to whether
any prospective buyer had voiced an

1288
01:52:54,800 --> 01:53:02,880
objection to purchasing in the vicinity
of a tower. The answer from all the

1289
01:52:59,679 --> 01:53:08,560
sources was no. Then the appraiser
consultant spoke with the assessing

1290
01:53:05,440 --> 01:53:14,080
spoke with assessing by inquiring as to
whether property owners had applied for

1291
01:53:11,520 --> 01:53:20,000
or been granted a lower assessment for
their proximity to a tower. Once again,

1292
01:53:17,199 --> 01:53:24,880
the answer was no. And finally, the
appraiser consultant had the opportunity

1293
01:53:22,080 --> 01:53:30,400
to speak with two property owners who
stated that they were oblivious to or

1294
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:34,080
welcomed the cell tower.
uh these

1295
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:38,400
» so I think the the sample size is so low
in that that I mean because I'm looking

1296
01:53:36,639 --> 01:53:45,440
at another one where they they're
sampling 2300 22,000

1297
01:53:42,159 --> 01:53:50,880
» and the relationship to the cell towers
shows that there there is definitely you

1298
01:53:48,000 --> 01:53:56,880
know it if you're within a th00and ft it
looks like it's closer to a 10% drop

1299
01:53:54,400 --> 01:54:00,080
» and and yeah you know that that makes
more sense

1300
01:53:57,599 --> 01:54:04,639
» and I don't know just from my background
if it's possible to do that kind of

1301
01:54:02,159 --> 01:54:10,239
large study in this area. I mean, in
other states, houses can be so cookie

1302
01:54:07,360 --> 01:54:14,239
cutter that it really is an a perfect
>> apple to apple

1303
01:54:11,280 --> 01:54:18,800
» apple comparison. I think it's
>> there's a lot of anecdotal stuff. I

1304
01:54:16,719 --> 01:54:25,360
mean, it it
but I mean, yeah, I don't think I'll

1305
01:54:23,360 --> 01:54:31,199
speak for myself. Not trying to be
critical of the effort. It's it's just

1306
01:54:28,639 --> 01:54:34,960
it's just inconclusive. There are just
it's just inconclusive. There's a lot of

1307
01:54:33,280 --> 01:54:40,159
anecdotal
stuff. I I don't know, you know, to is

1308
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:45,599
the person tasked with keeping us on
track here. I I'm not sure how much more

1309
01:54:43,520 --> 01:54:51,199
we can solve or not in the discussion. I
appreciate the point, but um

1310
01:54:48,960 --> 01:54:55,199
you brought you brought this up. Are
there any other things besides the study

1311
01:54:52,960 --> 01:55:01,440
you want to ask about this or I don't
know the question.

1312
01:54:57,199 --> 01:55:07,280
» Again, just common sense. I just can't
get my hands around having a 94

1313
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:11,040
foot tower right out.
How much?

1314
01:55:08,320 --> 01:55:16,480
» 200
right next to 194.

1315
01:55:13,119 --> 01:55:21,840
» And not thinking that's going to affect
the price negatively of your house. And

1316
01:55:19,599 --> 01:55:25,280
your house is, as we all know, the
biggest investment you're going to

1317
01:55:23,040 --> 01:55:31,360
probably make in your life. Let's just
use the 10%. Well, if you have a house

1318
01:55:28,560 --> 01:55:33,520
that's worth 500,000 bucks, you just
lost 50 grand.

1319
01:55:33,119 --> 01:55:38,000
» Yeah.
>> So, again, I I'm no sear. I'm no real.

1320
01:55:36,719 --> 01:55:42,000
I'm nothing.
>> It's I'm just just sensibly I'm just

1321
01:55:41,280 --> 01:55:48,880
that came
>> Well, I think I think it's a fair point.

1322
01:55:44,719 --> 01:55:52,480
» I beyond that I I'm glad you raised it.
>> But does does the or town ordinance have

1323
01:55:51,679 --> 01:55:55,760
any?
>> Right. It's

1324
01:55:53,840 --> 01:56:01,599
» no the the aesthetic, cultural and
natural values are we will not have an

1325
01:55:58,719 --> 01:56:07,599
undue adverse effect on scenic natural
beauty of the area aesthetics historic

1326
01:56:03,840 --> 01:56:10,719
sites significant wildlife habitats as
identified by the department of

1327
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:17,280
fisheries and wildlife for the
municipality

1328
01:56:13,360 --> 01:56:22,360
habitat maps there
right access to the shore

1329
01:56:22,400 --> 01:56:32,560
of standard in place and so so it's it's
I I think his concern is legitimate in

1330
01:56:29,440 --> 01:56:39,679
this conversation
and and so noted um I guess when we get

1331
01:56:37,840 --> 01:56:47,840
to the point where somebody actually
renders a decision about it application

1332
01:56:44,239 --> 01:56:55,760
then then that's certainly relevant to
be part of the consideration. Um, but

1333
01:56:52,480 --> 01:57:01,280
I I'm not sure if you saw anything else
specifically in this context. So, I'm

1334
01:56:59,119 --> 01:57:05,920
going to move on. But, but
>> there is a there is a question of public

1335
01:57:02,800 --> 01:57:12,960
good. I mean, they get away one thing
when they when they have group one north

1336
01:57:09,599 --> 01:57:18,880
expanded it considerably. The people who
are on objective,

1337
01:57:15,760 --> 01:57:21,440
they don't want that at all. And it was
it was it was a big deal,

1338
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:24,800
» right?
>> But

1339
01:57:23,119 --> 01:57:27,280
the reality was Rub needed to be
improved.

1340
01:57:25,360 --> 01:57:30,400
» But but you also I mean don't don't
confuse

1341
01:57:28,320 --> 01:57:34,880
» public things with private.
>> No saying we're putting in a new septic

1342
01:57:32,880 --> 01:57:38,639
I mean a new sewer treatment plant.
Nobody wants to live near it.

1343
01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:42,960
» But that's for the greater good. Right.
This is a private enterprise.

1344
01:57:39,840 --> 01:57:45,679
» But is it really notep the public uses
it though?

1345
01:57:43,599 --> 01:57:50,639
» Absolutely. For money.
>> We all pay to use it. Yes. Like this

1346
01:57:48,000 --> 01:57:55,199
isn't we don't get it for free.
>> Our tax dollars don't pay for it.

1347
01:57:53,199 --> 01:57:59,040
» Like we pay,
>> right? But but there's a service that

1348
01:57:57,280 --> 01:58:06,080
rendered here that we need and people
want it and and and you can be you can

1349
01:58:02,159 --> 01:58:09,840
be sure this town of Rock
because they got more more people

1350
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:12,239
driving through, you know, Rockland to
come to their restaurants, their stores.

1351
01:58:11,280 --> 01:58:16,320
So
>> people don't pay to use Route One.

1352
01:58:14,080 --> 01:58:21,440
» So I Well, they do do their job. This
will keep going. This we're we're

1353
01:58:18,000 --> 01:58:25,520
working extra hard on all this because
>> this is not the only dead zone in the

1354
01:58:24,080 --> 01:58:29,199
town of Walber.
>> You drive around, there's lots of other

1355
01:58:27,280 --> 01:58:33,119
places where your cell phone is going to
drop out. So, we're going to keep seeing

1356
01:58:30,880 --> 01:58:38,159
this come up because there'll be other
companies just like Blue Sky that sees a

1357
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:42,800
little money and finds a piece of land
that meets all this criteria and we'll

1358
01:58:40,560 --> 01:58:46,960
be right back at it. So we have to, you
know, it's our obligation to make sure

1359
01:58:44,960 --> 01:58:50,800
that we do this right because we're
going to keep this going to keep coming.

1360
01:58:48,639 --> 01:58:53,840
understand that there is there is a
question of greater good here and it

1361
01:58:52,080 --> 01:58:58,719
isn't just there are some people who
rely on cell phone

1362
01:58:57,040 --> 01:59:02,159
and I was going to bring up this point
later on but I'll bring it up now is

1363
01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:05,159
that
water

1364
01:59:05,440 --> 01:59:14,080
they rely on their cell I can give you
an instance where

1365
01:59:10,400 --> 01:59:19,040
I heard about someone died and they were
saved because they had their cell phone

1366
01:59:16,159 --> 01:59:23,360
and they had reception more important
and they were put on a ledge boat got

1367
01:59:21,679 --> 01:59:27,599
away
coming up getting dark and they were

1368
01:59:25,599 --> 01:59:32,480
able to contact someone who could come
save them. There have been deaths on the

1369
01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:37,280
river for the last few years of of
people lost their boats boats and turned

1370
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:43,360
over that they might have been saved if
they had cell service. So you know I

1371
01:59:41,520 --> 01:59:49,119
think there are lives at stake here when
you have you know they have to be taken

1372
01:59:46,480 --> 01:59:55,199
it has to be taken into consideration.
>> So so I I guess

1373
01:59:52,719 --> 01:59:59,760
I I think I think this is extremely
relevant and extremely relevant

1374
01:59:57,440 --> 02:00:06,400
conversation to department decision
hearing and conversation on both sides.

1375
02:00:02,719 --> 02:00:11,440
I I guess in the short term I'd ask is
there any other information

1376
02:00:09,040 --> 02:00:16,960
that can be provided
on this subject that would be helpful to

1377
02:00:14,320 --> 02:00:21,920
anybody when we get finally to the point
where we're going to make a decision

1378
02:00:18,560 --> 02:00:26,320
about this application but or not madam
chair if I may with with the other

1379
02:00:23,840 --> 02:00:31,920
exhibits that we had uh handed out as a
result of conversation from last time

1380
02:00:28,719 --> 02:00:38,400
this has been discussed uh as well I did
put together a a document that um starts

1381
02:00:36,239 --> 02:00:41,920
off with while recognizing the concerns
raised by neighboring property owners

1382
02:00:40,080 --> 02:00:47,199
regarding visual impact and rural
character, the applicant submits the

1383
02:00:44,320 --> 02:00:53,679
following. And I had put together a
number of you know uh public interest um

1384
02:00:51,520 --> 02:00:57,840
you know reasons that if I could submit
>> Yeah, I'm happy to have you distribute

1385
02:00:55,599 --> 02:01:00,560
that.
>> Um

1386
02:00:59,760 --> 02:01:02,960
and again
>> just

1387
02:01:02,159 --> 02:01:07,760
Thank you.
>> I don't want to I'm not trying to

1388
02:01:06,480 --> 02:01:09,360
minimize the importance of this
conversation.

1389
02:01:08,320 --> 02:01:13,760
» We don't need to go,
>> but I just feel like we can we could to

1390
02:01:12,080 --> 02:01:20,080
I mean this this is definitely a key
point in the whole decision, but we're

1391
02:01:16,800 --> 02:01:26,639
we still have some of the checklist to
So, so we will be coming back to points

1392
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:31,119
of concern, I think, when we get to the
the place to that place.

1393
02:01:29,040 --> 02:01:33,360
being you got to proceed with a
checklist.

1394
02:01:31,599 --> 02:01:35,679
» Can I add something just quick?
>> Absolutely.

1395
02:01:34,000 --> 02:01:41,199
» Um,
viewing this as if it was within 300

1396
02:01:38,639 --> 02:01:46,000
yards of group one, we would view it
differently. I feel like this is an

1397
02:01:43,280 --> 02:01:48,159
issue for the appeals boards when they
decide whether or not

1398
02:01:47,280 --> 02:01:53,599
» that's a great
>> um they can allow it in that zone. I

1399
02:01:50,800 --> 02:01:58,000
don't think it's something that we
do

1400
02:01:55,119 --> 02:02:03,520
in my opinion. Well, I think I think it
might get deliberated on on both places,

1401
02:02:00,639 --> 02:02:08,000
but but I agree that that
I would assume that that would be part

1402
02:02:05,520 --> 02:02:13,280
of the the conversation. I think they
have communication with them. So,

1403
02:02:10,960 --> 02:02:17,920
» I believe that is specifically one of
their more things they look at.

1404
02:02:19,520 --> 02:02:26,480
But if we we will have access to their
whatever the limits are on their

1405
02:02:24,560 --> 02:02:31,199
deliberations and
>> it's happening. Um I mean you're welcome

1406
02:02:29,440 --> 02:02:34,080
to come and sit in the meeting and when
the public

1407
02:02:32,400 --> 02:02:37,440
» you are it's avail it's going to be live
streamed on online.

1408
02:02:35,040 --> 02:02:41,599
» What time is that meeting? Is it 6:30?
>> Okay.

1409
02:02:39,119 --> 02:02:43,520
» Um and it will have minutes every
meeting and those are available for you

1410
02:02:42,880 --> 02:02:52,960
as well.
>> Okay. So I I am going to move on. Um

1411
02:02:48,560 --> 02:02:57,280
we have we have the this is the roads
parkway

1412
02:02:54,480 --> 02:03:02,000
street and we've done all we we just we
went backwards. I think we covered nine.

1413
02:02:59,920 --> 02:03:05,520
» There are some overlaps in in the
different standards.

1414
02:03:03,040 --> 02:03:09,760
» Y so so 10 is the one that's
specifically about wireless

1415
02:03:07,280 --> 02:03:16,159
telecommunication facilities.
And this project, it says, is not exempt

1416
02:03:12,639 --> 02:03:22,400
from amateur ham radio stations uh
antennas as accessory uses less than 7

1417
02:03:19,199 --> 02:03:28,159
ft in diameter maintenance or repair
provided

1418
02:03:24,239 --> 02:03:33,760
temporary broadband infrastructure.
Um and that's confirmed by you. So, and

1419
02:03:31,840 --> 02:03:39,360
and just because the wording there is a
little bit confusing, but yes, it is

1420
02:03:35,440 --> 02:03:43,440
» in in the ordinance um ham radio and
tenants of accessory uses if you're

1421
02:03:41,119 --> 02:03:47,360
doing maintenance or repair a temporary
communications utility or broadband

1422
02:03:45,280 --> 02:03:52,480
infrastructure, broadband internet
infrastructure

1423
02:03:48,960 --> 02:03:57,360
does not have to meet these standards.
Anything else has to meet these

1424
02:03:55,119 --> 02:04:01,760
standards. So if you're doing a ham
radio needle for example, you don't have

1425
02:03:58,880 --> 02:04:04,960
to meet the wireless standards in
>> so so those are the exemptions.

1426
02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:07,119
» So those are the exemptions.
>> This tower is not one of those

1427
02:04:06,320 --> 02:04:09,840
exemptions.
>> Okay.

1428
02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:14,880
» Um
>> so has to meet the standard. So the

1429
02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:18,800
first item here is the topographical map
showing all locations

1430
02:04:17,280 --> 02:04:28,199
and
uh for facilities more than 150 ft high

1431
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:28,199
which this is within a five mile radius

1432
02:04:29,040 --> 02:04:34,440
of the proposed facility and that's an
easy too.

1433
02:04:34,719 --> 02:04:44,320
The site plan elevation draws
landscaping which we have an updated run

1434
02:04:39,440 --> 02:04:48,480
of. We've seen photo simulations
description. We we saw a lot of this in

1435
02:04:47,040 --> 02:04:52,639
the last meeting. Description of the
network.

1436
02:04:50,480 --> 02:04:58,480
Um
let me just pause at the 3.7.

1437
02:04:55,920 --> 02:05:05,119
Are there any questions anybody or
comments or things people want to talk

1438
02:05:00,800 --> 02:05:10,880
about that 3.2 to 3.7
part of this checklist?

1439
02:05:08,639 --> 02:05:18,719
I think I think all this material has
been provided. It's my my opinion

1440
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:22,880
anyway. Um no existing site this is 3.8.
No existing site evidence demonstrated

1441
02:05:21,199 --> 02:05:29,440
that no existing building site or
structure can accommodate the proposed

1442
02:05:25,280 --> 02:05:35,599
facility. So this is this is saying that
um well that there is no other way to

1443
02:05:34,000 --> 02:05:39,679
achieve the same purpose without
building the tower. Is that am I

1444
02:05:38,080 --> 02:05:44,880
interpreting that correctly?
>> Yes. Um,

1445
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:47,760
evidence demonstrating that no existing
building, site or structure can

1446
02:05:46,239 --> 02:05:51,840
accommodate the applicant's proposed
facility which may consist of any one or

1447
02:05:49,520 --> 02:05:56,080
more of the following. Um, evidence that
no existing facilities are located

1448
02:05:53,599 --> 02:06:01,360
within the target market coverage area
as required to meet the applicant's

1449
02:05:57,760 --> 02:06:05,280
engineering requirements. that um
evidence that existing facilities do not

1450
02:06:03,679 --> 02:06:08,880
have sufficient height or cannot be
increased in height at a reasonable

1451
02:06:07,599 --> 02:06:13,520
cost.
>> Um existing facilities insufficient

1452
02:06:11,679 --> 02:06:16,639
strength evidence that existing
facilities do not have sufficient

1453
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:22,719
strength to support the applicant's
proposed antenna and radio equipment. Um

1454
02:06:20,480 --> 02:06:28,239
and that has some standards insufficient
space. So the existing proof facilities

1455
02:06:25,040 --> 02:06:34,960
do not have space on them
and that's it. Um so they have shown

1456
02:06:30,560 --> 02:06:39,679
with their maps and with um the list of
other proposed sites that there are no

1457
02:06:37,920 --> 02:06:46,079
existing facilities within the space
that they can either increase the height

1458
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:50,400
on or increase the capacity of there are
no

1459
02:06:48,639 --> 02:06:55,760
» um
question. I mean, I I I brought up the

1460
02:06:53,119 --> 02:07:01,280
the question before about using the
existing utility poles for for micro

1461
02:06:59,040 --> 02:07:04,480
tower things, and they said it was just
too expensive.

1462
02:07:02,800 --> 02:07:08,480
» Uh,
so

1463
02:07:06,800 --> 02:07:13,440
didn't you say that?
>> Uh, that may have been that that was

1464
02:07:11,199 --> 02:07:17,040
probably part of what I said, but that's
not the proper context.

1465
02:07:15,040 --> 02:07:23,920
» Or that that blue sky doesn't do that.
>> No. Um

1466
02:07:20,000 --> 02:07:25,280
the radius of a macro cell that we're
discussing

1467
02:07:24,719 --> 02:07:29,119
» right
>> is anywhere from from two to three

1468
02:07:27,920 --> 02:07:33,599
miles.
>> Okay. So four five six miles diameter

1469
02:07:32,639 --> 02:07:38,000
more or less
>> right

1470
02:07:34,719 --> 02:07:41,599
» the that's a footprint. The footprint of
a small cell is measured in hundreds of

1471
02:07:41,040 --> 02:07:43,119
feet.
>> Right. But there's

1472
02:07:42,400 --> 02:07:47,760
» very small
>> telephone poles all

1473
02:07:44,560 --> 02:07:52,560
» telephone poles everywhere. Right. the
amount of structures or hardware that

1474
02:07:50,239 --> 02:07:58,239
you can put on that is limited. So what
you put on a small cell because of the

1475
02:07:54,480 --> 02:08:03,199
height is something like 1900 or 2100
which doesn't propagate too far.

1476
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:08,719
Therefore the the small footprint that
is correlated to the height of the

1477
02:08:05,440 --> 02:08:12,719
radio. Um so there are engineering
issues with that because you do not

1478
02:08:10,800 --> 02:08:20,159
achieve the coverage objective that you
want to achieve. uh you do have a lack

1479
02:08:16,719 --> 02:08:25,360
of coverage and you have a uh a
performance gap because you have no

1480
02:08:22,159 --> 02:08:31,360
coverage and uh the small cells don't
reach into a home for example the the

1481
02:08:28,639 --> 02:08:38,000
the the um coverage maps that I showed
you last time you saw the green and the

1482
02:08:34,320 --> 02:08:43,360
yellow within the green footprint you
have inbuilding coverage that is

1483
02:08:40,400 --> 02:08:48,960
something that the small cell on a
street pole wouldn't it be able to give

1484
02:08:45,199 --> 02:08:54,800
you besides the fact that you have a
footprint that is miles in diameter as

1485
02:08:52,480 --> 02:08:58,480
compared to a footprint that is hundreds
of feet in diameter.

1486
02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:01,599
» Understood.
>> Yeah.

1487
02:08:59,040 --> 02:09:07,520
» But the the question was if this is this
the only way to to achieve the the goal?

1488
02:09:05,040 --> 02:09:14,800
Yes, you have a significant gap in
coverage and the only way to achieve

1489
02:09:11,199 --> 02:09:22,000
this objective is with a macro cell
because it allows you to put the low

1490
02:09:17,280 --> 02:09:25,840
bands 700 800 as well as the midbands
1900 and 2100.

1491
02:09:24,320 --> 02:09:30,480
The midbands give you a smaller
footprint but they help you with

1492
02:09:27,360 --> 02:09:38,000
capacity. the small cells can long can
only afford to have the midbands 1900

1493
02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:41,520
and 2100 megahertz.
>> I I do think it's worth pointing out

1494
02:09:39,520 --> 02:09:44,880
that with the small cells versus the
large radio towers, not the radio tower,

1495
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:46,960
the large cell towers,
>> yeah,

1496
02:09:45,360 --> 02:09:48,400
» the large cell tower does have that
broader footprint.

1497
02:09:48,000 --> 02:09:52,400
» Yeah.
>> But the majority of that footprint, as

1498
02:09:50,159 --> 02:09:55,520
we've seen on the map, is empty woods.
uh and as Morgan pointed out in the

1499
02:09:53,920 --> 02:10:01,440
previous meeting, one of the largest
swaths of empty woods that we have in in

1500
02:09:57,760 --> 02:10:04,960
this area. Whereas the smaller uh units,
they do provide a smaller footprint, but

1501
02:10:03,199 --> 02:10:09,440
that footprint is centralized on
roadways, which is where the majority of

1502
02:10:07,280 --> 02:10:12,560
development and human activity is
located.

1503
02:10:10,239 --> 02:10:17,440
» So, I'd like to again stress the fact
that the uh the macro cell is going to

1504
02:10:15,199 --> 02:10:24,560
give you inbuilding coverage in your
house. Um but to your point um about

1505
02:10:22,719 --> 02:10:30,400
covering the woods where there's nobody
there, well there's something to be said

1506
02:10:27,280 --> 02:10:39,440
for having the the accessibility to
service in case somebody is there. But

1507
02:10:34,480 --> 02:10:44,560
let me also say that um there is a radio
kite that's being installed with this

1508
02:10:42,800 --> 02:10:51,280
particular tower and Barason is doing
this in every tower and this is a C-band

1509
02:10:47,920 --> 02:11:00,400
radio which operates at the 3700
megahertz uh band or uh frequency.

1510
02:10:56,320 --> 02:11:08,159
Uh this particular radio has a phase
array antenna and what the phase array

1511
02:11:03,360 --> 02:11:14,320
antenna does is it aims the traffic beam
to the customer in particular. So there

1512
02:11:10,960 --> 02:11:19,119
is an envelope or of RF to determine
where the customer is located. When the

1513
02:11:16,800 --> 02:11:23,679
customer then attempts to make a phone
call or connect to the internet, there's

1514
02:11:21,520 --> 02:11:29,440
the beam is steered to that one
customer.

1515
02:11:25,920 --> 02:11:34,360
Okay. So that technology is will be in
place with this site.

1516
02:11:36,880 --> 02:11:43,040
I mean the question was whether coverage
could be done

1517
02:11:41,920 --> 02:11:47,320
» into different
>> but I think we answered that question

1518
02:11:47,599 --> 02:11:53,199
» and
>> I think somebody who installs

1519
02:11:50,960 --> 02:11:59,280
uh small towers on utility poles would
have a different answer.

1520
02:11:55,360 --> 02:12:03,920
» Uh I don't think so sir. No, I just told
you that the footprint is much smaller

1521
02:12:01,599 --> 02:12:05,840
» that the type of radios that you could
>> I'm sorry.

1522
02:12:04,560 --> 02:12:09,199
» Small cells.
>> I I just I don't I don't know.

1523
02:12:08,000 --> 02:12:14,159
» Well, I'm telling you,
>> but you don't install it.

1524
02:12:11,360 --> 02:12:18,159
» No. And and and to be honest, if I may
if I may interject, uh the people that

1525
02:12:16,560 --> 02:12:21,840
do the installation don't have the
engineering background. So, if you're

1526
02:12:19,920 --> 02:12:25,119
listening to somebody that's doing that
and telling you that, they don't really

1527
02:12:23,280 --> 02:12:27,040
have the engineering background to to
tell you that.

1528
02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:30,800
» Sure. Well, that
>> I don't know enough to disagree.

1529
02:12:28,880 --> 02:12:35,119
» Just logically the the example that was
raised about somebody else out fiction

1530
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:37,360
must find this bag.
>> Yeah.

1531
02:12:35,760 --> 02:12:41,199
» Um I
>> if you need help.

1532
02:12:38,880 --> 02:12:48,639
» Yeah. Not I mean I I guess I just can't
visualize how if it's if something is on

1533
02:12:44,719 --> 02:12:51,280
on um you know the telephone calls that
would

1534
02:12:48,960 --> 02:12:54,800
» totally and now and now the next wave is
satellites you know I mean

1535
02:12:53,280 --> 02:12:57,360
» okay let's go there
>> if I may. I mean,

1536
02:12:56,159 --> 02:13:01,119
» let's go there if I may.
>> Yeah.

1537
02:12:57,679 --> 02:13:09,679
» To answer your question as well. So, um
Star um SpaceX

1538
02:13:04,639 --> 02:13:11,520
purchased um 65 megahertz of spectrum.
>> Yeah.

1539
02:13:10,079 --> 02:13:14,880
» Okay. You probably heard this.
>> Yeah.

1540
02:13:12,079 --> 02:13:23,199
» All right. So, what is the frequency of
this spectrum is in the 1900 megahertz

1541
02:13:19,199 --> 02:13:28,639
range. Um, so there the the cellular
space in the United States is worth $600

1542
02:13:27,119 --> 02:13:33,199
billion.
So obviously,

1543
02:13:30,560 --> 02:13:37,199
uh, SpaceX wants a wants a piece of that
and they're going to get it. So, what

1544
02:13:35,360 --> 02:13:42,400
they're going to do is they're going to
use small uh low earth orbit satellites,

1545
02:13:39,679 --> 02:13:47,119
LEO satellites, and they're going to
beam

1546
02:13:43,920 --> 02:13:52,320
uh radio waves similar to those that are
on the towers

1547
02:13:49,599 --> 02:14:00,800
to customers cell phones. That is called
direct to cell service from space to the

1548
02:13:56,800 --> 02:14:06,000
customer. See, again, the frequency is
1900 megahertz. So it has limited reach

1549
02:14:04,320 --> 02:14:11,040
but they will be able to serve some
customers particularly in rural in uh

1550
02:14:08,719 --> 02:14:18,159
rural areas.
For example, we I think we I heard you

1551
02:14:14,560 --> 02:14:27,040
say that there are multiple gaps in in
um uh Woro. Some of those gaps may work

1552
02:14:23,440 --> 02:14:31,280
well in providing if they're small in
providing coverage from a satellite and

1553
02:14:29,440 --> 02:14:33,360
that's what he's aiming at. Oh, no. I
was talking more about the emergency

1554
02:14:33,040 --> 02:14:36,960
situ.
>> Oh, okay. No, but but that's where he's

1555
02:14:34,880 --> 02:14:44,320
aiming at. So, the fact of the matter is
that that um uh the 65 megahertz that he

1556
02:14:41,360 --> 02:14:53,599
bought or he bought that's a SpaceX
bought uh he he SpaceX and Starlink is

1557
02:14:50,239 --> 02:14:58,079
deploying this nationwide. Okay. I
mentioned the C-band radio that Verizon

1558
02:14:55,920 --> 02:15:07,599
is going to deploy on each sector of
this proposed site. This C-band radio

1559
02:15:02,079 --> 02:15:15,199
has a bandwidth of about 140 megahertz.
Compare that to the 65 megahertz that

1560
02:15:12,079 --> 02:15:20,880
Space Xbox uh bought. Much much
different. Much less capacity Starlink

1561
02:15:18,400 --> 02:15:26,960
will have to start with. They're going
to have to get creative and I'm sure

1562
02:15:22,560 --> 02:15:32,159
they will as time goes by. But starting
from now, their coverage is going to be

1563
02:15:29,440 --> 02:15:36,320
limited because of capacity. There's
very little capacity. Yes, sir.

1564
02:15:34,800 --> 02:15:41,040
» I brought this up last meeting. You
know, you're familiar with Mo's law.

1565
02:15:38,159 --> 02:15:47,360
Every trans
>> I think the technology I think it's

1566
02:15:43,280 --> 02:15:50,480
going so fast, so quickly with AI that
that tower will be outmoded within a

1567
02:15:49,599 --> 02:15:52,960
year.
uh you know

1568
02:15:51,199 --> 02:15:58,639
» technology something else will come in
as you alluded to.

1569
02:15:55,520 --> 02:16:04,639
» Yeah. So um I think you you need to
realize that the technology will help

1570
02:16:00,960 --> 02:16:08,159
with rural areas in in cities is uh is a
lot more troublesome because you have

1571
02:16:06,159 --> 02:16:11,679
more obstacles and clutter on the
ground.

1572
02:16:09,199 --> 02:16:17,040
um you still need the ground stations
and wouldn't surprise me if is if is

1573
02:16:13,599 --> 02:16:21,280
SpaceX 101 15 years from now buys AT&T
or T-Mobile or Verizon for that matter

1574
02:16:19,199 --> 02:16:28,400
because they will have to rely at one
point on ground stations to provide more

1575
02:16:26,000 --> 02:16:35,200
uh coverage that can penetrate into
structures. The 1900 is not good at

1576
02:16:31,520 --> 02:16:38,200
penetrating into structures.
Okay,

1577
02:16:39,040 --> 02:16:48,240
» Daniel's gonna I'm gonna take a brief
break. Daniel's gonna

1578
02:16:45,920 --> 02:16:54,679
» take over for me for a minute.
>> Exactly. [laughter]

1579
02:16:50,639 --> 02:16:54,679
» Are we all set with 102838?

1580
02:16:55,679 --> 02:17:01,760
» The no existing site.
>> I don't think we're going to get more

1581
02:16:59,920 --> 02:17:07,760
resolution out and more conversation at
this page. So, yeah,

1582
02:17:03,840 --> 02:17:10,760
» call it Okay, moving on to 102839
agreements.

1583
02:17:11,920 --> 02:17:15,399
Let me just make sure

1584
02:17:17,120 --> 02:17:22,960
» um that's reasonable charge require no
more than a reasonable charge for shared

1585
02:17:20,559 --> 02:17:26,559
use baselines community rates generally
accepted accounting principles charge

1586
02:17:24,719 --> 02:17:30,880
may include but is not limited to pro
shar cost of site selection planning

1587
02:17:28,960 --> 02:17:35,280
project administration land site design
construction

1588
02:17:32,399 --> 02:17:38,399
um the order and more
>> camulations

1589
02:17:36,319 --> 02:17:43,280
» thank you of the above cost by the
facility owner shall be accomplished at

1590
02:17:40,000 --> 02:17:43,280
a reasonable rate over the youth

1591
02:17:44,479 --> 02:17:54,240
So is that just in regards to their
lease uh of the site?

1592
02:17:50,479 --> 02:17:56,880
» Um it's um the lease of the actual
tower.

1593
02:17:54,800 --> 02:18:02,319
» Yes.
>> Are we happy with that?

1594
02:17:59,359 --> 02:18:09,040
» Okay. Moving on. This is mislabeled for
the shy. It should be 1028310

1595
02:18:06,240 --> 02:18:12,880
is the section that covers it. Um and in
the ordinance it says a form of shy

1596
02:18:10,880 --> 02:18:17,359
approved by the planning board to pay
for the cost of removing the facility if

1597
02:18:15,280 --> 02:18:23,599
it is abandoned. They have submitted
that. At our last meeting, we had asked

1598
02:18:20,000 --> 02:18:28,479
for clarifications on what form that
will take and also to have that updated

1599
02:18:26,240 --> 02:18:33,479
to include
I remember right, it only goes so many

1600
02:18:30,160 --> 02:18:33,479
feet down,

1601
02:18:37,519 --> 02:18:41,000
not the whole.

1602
02:18:43,120 --> 02:18:46,120
Yeah.

1603
02:18:50,880 --> 02:18:58,800
So, we talked a little bit about that
last time and our recollection was that

1604
02:18:56,240 --> 02:19:03,599
um you were looking for
um

1605
02:19:00,800 --> 02:19:10,240
additional
um

1606
02:19:05,359 --> 02:19:15,280
opinion of cost for removal of um
utility poles and and power systems. So,

1607
02:19:13,359 --> 02:19:19,719
we um
We updated the

1608
02:19:20,160 --> 02:19:31,920
um removal for that um which is here
>> and um we discussed that there are

1609
02:19:28,319 --> 02:19:40,559
several forms that the
that the that can take and I believe um

1610
02:19:37,359 --> 02:19:44,960
this guy was prepared to
if if that if you're in agreement with

1611
02:19:42,479 --> 02:19:50,880
the amount and the scope that you would
be looking to do a bond

1612
02:19:47,599 --> 02:19:57,920
» removal bond. Um there's other forms of
shity but they were looking for a bond

1613
02:19:55,280 --> 02:20:04,560
» to provide that.
>> This is their updated

1614
02:19:59,680 --> 02:20:10,080
» SH and they've offered to get a bond.
>> Yeah, I think I think that's that's what

1615
02:20:07,600 --> 02:20:15,040
we'll ultimately need.
I do get that with the timing of when

1616
02:20:13,120 --> 02:20:16,960
you actually purchase the bond. It's a
>> right

1617
02:20:15,280 --> 02:20:18,560
» it's a little premature till the project
starts. But

1618
02:20:18,160 --> 02:20:26,479
» yes,
>> I think I think this is sufficient to at

1619
02:20:24,160 --> 02:20:29,760
least documentation.
I've just looked at it. I don't know

1620
02:20:28,319 --> 02:20:32,479
about the amount. I haven't really
studied it, but uh

1621
02:20:31,120 --> 02:20:34,640
» it's gone up.
>> Okay, good.

1622
02:20:33,439 --> 02:20:39,120
» Just a quick question. What what
triggers a removal?

1623
02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:41,439
I mean um
>> disuse

1624
02:20:40,319 --> 02:20:44,960
» abandonment removal.
>> Yeah.

1625
02:20:42,240 --> 02:20:47,280
» D disuse is disuse. The minute you stop
using it,

1626
02:20:45,920 --> 02:20:51,520
» you must take it down.
>> There's a standard.

1627
02:20:49,359 --> 02:20:56,880
» Does the ordinance give a period of
time? Usually what we see if um the the

1628
02:20:55,120 --> 02:21:01,040
tower has been abandoned for a period of
two years, you know, meaning that

1629
02:20:58,560 --> 02:21:04,080
there's not a carrier on there, then
within

1630
02:21:01,760 --> 02:21:11,120
» Yeah. Our ordinance says 12 months.
>> Okay. But

1631
02:21:07,200 --> 02:21:17,760
We usually see, you know, 24 months and
um 180 days of notice so that, you know,

1632
02:21:15,280 --> 02:21:19,840
we can find a vendor
>> get, you know,

1633
02:21:19,040 --> 02:21:23,120
» get it done.
>> So, which which which is it 12 months or

1634
02:21:22,399 --> 02:21:26,399
two years?
>> It's in our ordinance.

1635
02:21:24,479 --> 02:21:32,080
» So, if you go by our
>> It's 12 months. The code officer issues

1636
02:21:29,280 --> 02:21:38,640
a notice in 90 days and they have 30
days to remove it.

1637
02:21:35,359 --> 02:21:43,920
And so if the the technology does in
fact evolve and in five years nobody's

1638
02:21:42,240 --> 02:21:48,399
using cells anymore.
>> They still pay for it.

1639
02:21:47,280 --> 02:21:52,240
» They get rid of
>> how many of those boxes.

1640
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:56,880
What do you call those thing? The actual
module that beams out the the

1641
02:21:55,280 --> 02:22:03,920
» antenna antenna.
>> Yeah. Can you keep adding to like

1642
02:22:00,560 --> 02:22:08,960
four, six, 8, 12 and keep going and then
have someone else take it over?

1643
02:22:06,399 --> 02:22:13,280
» So Verizon has Verizon is installing
three antennas per sector and there's

1644
02:22:11,600 --> 02:22:15,920
three sectors. So
>> should be nine

1645
02:22:14,000 --> 02:22:21,040
» nine on that on that at that particular
level. And T-Mobile and AT&T are about

1646
02:22:18,880 --> 02:22:25,439
the same.
So that's that's how many you need on

1647
02:22:22,720 --> 02:22:28,240
average to provide service uh with the
multiple B uh bands that the operators

1648
02:22:27,760 --> 02:22:34,240
use.
>> Yeah. And you might see that towel with

1649
02:22:30,560 --> 02:22:40,600
15 20 of these antennas.
>> That's how whenever you look at a site

1650
02:22:36,240 --> 02:22:40,600
that's what they look like. Yes.

1651
02:22:41,600 --> 02:22:47,120
» Any other questions on maturity?
>> Uh yeah, back to the bottom real quick.

1652
02:22:45,600 --> 02:22:50,000
Is
I'm not a numbers person. I can't tell

1653
02:22:48,399 --> 02:22:55,359
quite by looking at this. Is there a
mechanism to account for the increase in

1654
02:22:52,319 --> 02:23:02,000
cost over time of the removal?
>> Not in that document, but I believe in

1655
02:22:57,680 --> 02:23:07,920
the um if you get a bond, you can you
can purchase it with an escalator that

1656
02:23:06,479 --> 02:23:10,000
it follows uh
>> like inflation,

1657
02:23:08,880 --> 02:23:12,560
» right?
>> I think I believe that's a standard,

1658
02:23:12,160 --> 02:23:15,920
» right?
>> Yeah.

1659
02:23:13,120 --> 02:23:18,479
» And so that that's like a present day
cost like you said.

1660
02:23:17,359 --> 02:23:22,080
» Yeah.
and I don't know bond company make sure

1661
02:23:20,080 --> 02:23:26,000
that we're paying enough in annual
premium so that

1662
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:33,359
» this does illustrate the what the range
of the coverage and and it would be good

1663
02:23:29,040 --> 02:23:38,720
to have the escalator at the point that
somebody's in a position to purchase

1664
02:23:34,880 --> 02:23:43,680
this built in
>> but that's a great point

1665
02:23:40,960 --> 02:23:51,120
» any other questions
>> okay so the next area within And the

1666
02:23:48,479 --> 02:23:57,200
very next item and and we are getting to
the end of this.

1667
02:23:53,920 --> 02:24:02,240
The uh the 300 yards of route one is the
the variance has been requested and

1668
02:24:00,160 --> 02:24:06,160
that's going through the appeals board
next week. So I don't think we need to

1669
02:24:04,000 --> 02:24:14,240
talk about that.
Um, municipal sighting standards are met

1670
02:24:10,960 --> 02:24:18,560
not applicable according to this
design or collocation of at least three

1671
02:24:17,040 --> 02:24:24,399
additional.
It says facilities or providers

1672
02:24:22,240 --> 02:24:28,319
facilities.
That doesn't mean we need extra

1673
02:24:25,680 --> 02:24:30,880
buildings, does it? Or
>> it's for collocation.

1674
02:24:30,319 --> 02:24:34,160
» Yeah.
>> Yeah. If we look at the site,

1675
02:24:33,040 --> 02:24:38,880
» it's inside the
>> Yeah. What it means is inside the

1676
02:24:36,000 --> 02:24:43,520
compound there was four total earlier.
There could be more but there's there

1677
02:24:40,399 --> 02:24:46,319
were at least room for four
typical commercials.

1678
02:24:45,920 --> 02:24:53,840
» Yeah.
>> You know that plus the power itself

1679
02:24:51,120 --> 02:25:00,000
» will have the only person we know for a
fact that that's interested [snorts] at

1680
02:24:55,680 --> 02:25:06,160
this point is Verizon. However, um there
are three other levels that will be

1681
02:25:03,439 --> 02:25:09,680
designated and have placeholder values
for commercial equipment built in to

1682
02:25:08,640 --> 02:25:13,439
allow that.
>> And that's that's shown on the compound

1683
02:25:11,359 --> 02:25:24,000
plan and elevation drawing.
>> Okay, I remember that. And the height is

1684
02:25:19,359 --> 02:25:29,359
um 195 ft and is 194. The 200's the
limit. So it's 194 plus 5T lightning rod

1685
02:25:27,200 --> 02:25:33,520
which came up in an other conversation.
So you see that's been added.

1686
02:25:32,720 --> 02:25:38,000
Um
>> just point of clarification um for the

1687
02:25:35,760 --> 02:25:42,399
height maximum height of new expanded
wireless to telecommunication facility

1688
02:25:39,920 --> 02:25:46,640
shall be 195t.
>> Oh okay. So the lightning rod is not

1689
02:25:44,399 --> 02:25:51,680
part of the five the fact that the
lightning rod adds overall height. Is

1690
02:25:49,280 --> 02:25:56,640
that is that what that's saying or
>> um the the

1691
02:25:54,080 --> 02:26:01,200
ordinance is not clear about if the
lightning rod counts towards the height

1692
02:25:59,200 --> 02:26:08,880
or not. So that's something for the
planner to discuss. Um the the

1693
02:26:05,760 --> 02:26:13,040
um the ordinance simply says the maximum
height of new or expanded wireless

1694
02:26:10,560 --> 02:26:16,960
telecommunications facilities shall be
195 ft. The facility shall be designed

1695
02:26:15,040 --> 02:26:21,439
to collapse in a manner that does not
harm other property.

1696
02:26:19,040 --> 02:26:25,520
So it caves down.
>> We didn't want I mean I know people

1697
02:26:23,280 --> 02:26:29,439
brought that up before the addition of a
lightning rod. How do people feel?

1698
02:26:27,760 --> 02:26:36,840
» It looks like the lightning rod
>> puts it over the 195

1699
02:26:32,000 --> 02:26:36,840
» but it's a lightning rod. Is it I mean

1700
02:26:36,880 --> 02:26:41,680
» yeah the size of that
>> the discussion is the light is the

1701
02:26:40,000 --> 02:26:45,280
lightning rod qualified as part of the
structure.

1702
02:26:42,479 --> 02:26:50,479
» Well does it does it take us over the
195 do we need?

1703
02:26:48,800 --> 02:26:55,359
you know, how do how do you all want to
handle that?

1704
02:26:53,280 --> 02:26:57,520
I think the consensus in an earlier
meeting was that we did want a lightning

1705
02:26:56,960 --> 02:27:01,200
rod.
>> Yeah.

1706
02:26:59,040 --> 02:27:06,160
» I think we need to be also consistent
with what's happening in projects that

1707
02:27:04,640 --> 02:27:11,439
don't come before us but come to the
town and hear from the code officer that

1708
02:27:08,880 --> 02:27:14,399
if you we have maximum height for new
buildings like barns.

1709
02:27:12,880 --> 02:27:18,720
» Great point. If there's a lightning rod
on the barn

1710
02:27:16,000 --> 02:27:20,960
» in other applications counting that or
not.

1711
02:27:20,319 --> 02:27:25,359
» Do you know?
>> Do you know that kid or

1712
02:27:23,520 --> 02:27:28,359
» our code officer is is present with
>> us

1713
02:27:29,151 --> 02:27:38,240
[laughter]
typically for like a structure it goes

1714
02:27:33,680 --> 02:27:42,240
off of the structure itself. Um, but it
I mean I could see how the lightning rod

1715
02:27:40,720 --> 02:27:45,520
could be considered the structure, but I
could see how it could not be as well.

1716
02:27:44,000 --> 02:27:49,600
But I mean typically if someone was to
put like a weather vein on the top of

1717
02:27:46,800 --> 02:27:52,960
the barn, I wouldn't consider that as
part of the structure for for me

1718
02:27:52,160 --> 02:27:56,640
anyways. [snorts]
>> I think I think that makes sense.

1719
02:27:54,720 --> 02:28:02,800
» Yeah, that makes that makes sense to me.
I think the only the only thing I

1720
02:28:00,720 --> 02:28:07,600
I mean a plane shouldn't be flying that
close to the top of the tower anyway,

1721
02:28:04,800 --> 02:28:11,600
right? So, um,
>> they have FAA

1722
02:28:10,399 --> 02:28:14,240
» permission.
>> Okay.

1723
02:28:12,240 --> 02:28:17,920
» They do in in your original packet. They
had

1724
02:28:14,640 --> 02:28:21,359
» 200 ft.
>> They didn't need it.

1725
02:28:18,720 --> 02:28:24,880
» So, so that's the lightning rod.
>> What's the trigger for needing a light?

1726
02:28:23,280 --> 02:28:31,280
» I I agree.
>> Ask them. What's the trigger for light?

1727
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:35,920
» Uh, 200 ft uh and above or if it's in a
area that's a in a flight path that they

1728
02:28:33,920 --> 02:28:37,439
determined The lightning rod would put
it into

1729
02:28:36,960 --> 02:28:39,920
» No,
>> no.

1730
02:28:38,800 --> 02:28:43,600
» Oh, okay.
>> 199. [laughter]

1731
02:28:43,040 --> 02:28:46,640
So, it's not
>> And it's not in the flight path, too.

1732
02:28:44,880 --> 02:28:50,800
» It's not in the flight path either. So,
I mean, the study is two parts. So, it's

1733
02:28:48,319 --> 02:28:56,399
a is it a hazard to air navigation
because it could be lower than

1734
02:28:53,040 --> 02:28:58,319
» you know that and be a hazard?
light.

1735
02:28:56,800 --> 02:29:01,680
» We generally don't consider that as part
of the structure because it's a it's a

1736
02:29:00,080 --> 02:29:05,280
safety thing and it's the size of
>> I like the point about the continuity

1737
02:29:03,600 --> 02:29:08,880
what we do with other structures in
town. So

1738
02:29:06,479 --> 02:29:13,760
» generally just as the code enforcement
officer had said that um FAA looks at it

1739
02:29:11,680 --> 02:29:17,680
very similar. There's a structure height
and then there's what's called an

1740
02:29:14,880 --> 02:29:20,640
pertinance height which would be in this
case the lightning rod is considered

1741
02:29:19,040 --> 02:29:27,840
anertinance.
Both yeah both are both are provided and

1742
02:29:24,800 --> 02:29:31,680
categorized in there. So if you know if
if the tower was raised for some reason

1743
02:29:29,920 --> 02:29:36,880
or lowered or the impertinence height
was changed then that gets filed with

1744
02:29:34,560 --> 02:29:41,840
FAA. So they they need to know that but
it is a distinction the structure height

1745
02:29:39,760 --> 02:29:44,240
from an impertinence something that's on
it.

1746
02:29:42,160 --> 02:29:48,000
» Yeah. And and the reason for that is and
you've seen this you've seen this on

1747
02:29:45,760 --> 02:29:56,240
towers um just coming up here there's
one in u forget the the town um it

1748
02:29:53,359 --> 02:30:00,560
starts with a W is it
>> scasset there's a on route one off to

1749
02:29:58,640 --> 02:30:04,800
the right there's a tower and there's
actually blinking light on it

1750
02:30:02,319 --> 02:30:10,399
» and then there's um several antennas
that jut way like probably 20 feet above

1751
02:30:07,280 --> 02:30:15,520
that. So in that situation you can see
where that tower structure height must

1752
02:30:13,040 --> 02:30:19,600
be over 200 and there's a pertinances
that are higher as well. That's an

1753
02:30:17,439 --> 02:30:27,280
example of how the two kind of work
together.

1754
02:30:22,160 --> 02:30:33,280
» Um the next thing here um we are we
voted to follow the old rules. So the

1755
02:30:30,880 --> 02:30:38,479
the setback
meets meets the old yes

1756
02:30:35,600 --> 02:30:44,880
» rules and that we've got that outline
here on landscaping.

1757
02:30:42,240 --> 02:30:48,080
Um it says waiver requested but we have
a new landscaping plan that appears to

1758
02:30:46,800 --> 02:30:52,399
me to I didn't
>> they didn't update the checklist to

1759
02:30:49,359 --> 02:30:57,920
reflect they have submitted okay they
have submitted.

1760
02:30:54,560 --> 02:31:04,399
Okay, perfect. And my recollection is
that we had we had uh

1761
02:31:02,800 --> 02:31:09,040
these
have limited fence. We have the the

1762
02:31:06,720 --> 02:31:14,880
lighting that we discussed confirmed by
the planner. Um color and materials. I

1763
02:31:12,399 --> 02:31:20,319
can't remember what we said about that,
but did we did we specify color of the

1764
02:31:17,840 --> 02:31:23,319
fence?
Um

1765
02:31:24,080 --> 02:31:33,399
Did that come up? Show
>> I don't remember previous conversations

1766
02:31:29,520 --> 02:31:33,399
but um we're strand

1767
02:31:34,160 --> 02:31:38,720
» right now we're showing just galvanized
chain and fence but there are other

1768
02:31:37,520 --> 02:31:44,080
options at the board.
>> It's um just color and materials. A new

1769
02:31:42,399 --> 02:31:47,120
or expanded wireless telecommunication
facility must be constructed with

1770
02:31:45,520 --> 02:31:50,160
materials and colors that match or blend
with surroundings natural or built

1771
02:31:48,560 --> 02:31:53,680
environment to the maximum extent
practicable unless otherwise required.

1772
02:31:52,399 --> 02:31:58,319
intermediate colors, earth tones, or
subdued hues shall be used.

1773
02:31:56,000 --> 02:32:03,200
» Okay. I I I
would advocate at least on the fence, I

1774
02:32:00,560 --> 02:32:10,000
I realize that you still have a tower
that's very large that is some

1775
02:32:06,160 --> 02:32:15,760
galvanized e silvery color probably. But
um at least when you're looking straight

1776
02:32:12,399 --> 02:32:20,960
ahead, it's every project I've ever
worked on, I've advocated for um the

1777
02:32:19,280 --> 02:32:26,080
black chain link because I just think it
disappears more. And

1778
02:32:23,680 --> 02:32:31,120
um that would be my personal opinion. I
don't know how other people feel about

1779
02:32:27,520 --> 02:32:35,200
that, but it's if if there's a such
thing as aesthetically pleasing chain

1780
02:32:32,880 --> 02:32:39,439
link, I think black chain link comes
closest.

1781
02:32:36,720 --> 02:32:43,359
Um and the buildings I trust are an
earth or grayish or neutral.

1782
02:32:42,240 --> 02:32:47,760
» Yeah. No cabinets.
>> No, no buildings particular in this one.

1783
02:32:45,520 --> 02:32:51,760
Verizon is just proposing um um
refrigerator size cabinets, but yeah,

1784
02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:56,319
they are sort of a gray tone.
>> Yeah.

1785
02:32:52,240 --> 02:32:59,840
» Um I we've done black fence before, so
if that's something the board wants to

1786
02:32:58,399 --> 02:33:03,280
condition or if that's what they want to
see, I don't think

1787
02:33:01,600 --> 02:33:06,240
» I think that it's just
>> think there's a problem there. Just keep

1788
02:33:04,479 --> 02:33:09,120
in mind it's far off the road, but
that's that's okay. It's still

1789
02:33:08,479 --> 02:33:12,960
» sure
>> when you come upon it. I mean it just if

1790
02:33:11,680 --> 02:33:16,399
you're going to put chain link up
anyway. I mean

1791
02:33:15,200 --> 02:33:19,200
» you know it's
>> again they I've seen them do it. So I

1792
02:33:18,160 --> 02:33:24,560
don't I don't think
>> and the towers themselves silver is kind

1793
02:33:21,760 --> 02:33:28,479
of the only option isn't it?
>> That's what we're showing is the is the

1794
02:33:26,240 --> 02:33:32,560
galvanized. I mean that's the the one
that's used more often because you it's

1795
02:33:30,720 --> 02:33:39,439
you're not it's not flaking paint and
things like that. So it's it's uh

1796
02:33:36,000 --> 02:33:45,760
it works from that perspective.
>> Yeah. I I mean I

1797
02:33:43,439 --> 02:33:49,359
it
>> I'm inclined to agree that the black

1798
02:33:47,439 --> 02:33:58,720
chain link fence is a harmless but
potentially positive request to good

1799
02:33:53,200 --> 02:34:03,040
» um any other comment on color materials?
uh structural standards.

1800
02:34:01,280 --> 02:34:05,600
That's
okay. Can we

1801
02:34:04,319 --> 02:34:09,439
» but New York expanded wireless
telecommunication facility must comply

1802
02:34:07,200 --> 02:34:12,960
with the current electronic industry
association telecommunications industry

1803
02:34:11,359 --> 02:34:18,720
association
um 222 revision standard and titled

1804
02:34:16,399 --> 02:34:24,960
structure standards for sealant power.
>> So so that's been met. Yes. and and then

1805
02:34:21,920 --> 02:34:29,920
the noise the question about
just want to bring up the the generator

1806
02:34:27,040 --> 02:34:34,720
piece and check back in on that and the
the decibb and when

1807
02:34:32,160 --> 02:34:39,359
» so to actually run
>> last time it was um

1808
02:34:37,680 --> 02:34:46,560
wanted additional information on the
generator which we have here um the

1809
02:34:42,160 --> 02:34:51,680
particular generator is a a 50 kilowatt
uh generator. It has an enclosure and it

1810
02:34:49,920 --> 02:34:58,800
also has a tank if some of that
information is is in here. Um

1811
02:34:56,000 --> 02:35:02,240
» can um
you remind me a couple quick things.

1812
02:35:01,120 --> 02:35:07,600
Does
>> when and how long is this going to like

1813
02:35:05,520 --> 02:35:14,960
it it turns on weekly, right?
>> So yeah. So what what happens is um um

1814
02:35:11,920 --> 02:35:20,960
there's a period of time and it can be
set um to go off and the idea is that it

1815
02:35:18,720 --> 02:35:24,800
it starts up so that it's available when
you need it, right? The idea can charge

1816
02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:30,399
its batteries. It it runs and makes sure
that um it's operational. So, that can

1817
02:35:27,280 --> 02:35:38,240
be set on your ordinance says uh between
7:00 a.m. and 10 p.m., but we've seen

1818
02:35:33,439 --> 02:35:43,439
boards set a a time, say 11:00 a.m. or
12 o'lock on a Tuesday, and it could

1819
02:35:42,160 --> 02:35:49,280
run. Um,
>> and how long does what's the duration?

1820
02:35:46,800 --> 02:35:52,160
» Usually, it's about uh 20 minutes to my
recollection. There's a warm-up period.

1821
02:35:50,720 --> 02:35:55,280
It runs for a little bit and it shuts
down.

1822
02:35:53,600 --> 02:36:02,080
Um,
we're getting close to transitioning to

1823
02:35:57,200 --> 02:36:08,560
public comment. I I I'm just I just
can we set Let me do it this way. Can we

1824
02:36:05,439 --> 02:36:13,520
Can we get back to you on that range?
>> 100% like the neighborhood would prefer.

1825
02:36:11,520 --> 02:36:18,399
» That's done quite quite frequently.
Absolutely.

1826
02:36:15,439 --> 02:36:26,319
» Um, all right.
Under all these papers is an agenda.

1827
02:36:22,960 --> 02:36:31,120
The um application review next is C
public comment and then D board

1828
02:36:28,640 --> 02:36:35,520
deliberations and recommendations. It is
um 9:24.

1829
02:36:33,120 --> 02:36:42,080
» That was the next thing I was going to
in your in the ordinance have any sort

1830
02:36:37,920 --> 02:36:44,880
of um time limits to your meetings,
>> right?

1831
02:36:42,560 --> 02:36:48,960
» So we can run as later as long as the
board desires. Um there is a limit to

1832
02:36:48,080 --> 02:36:54,319
human endurance.
>> Right. Right. So So what are the

1833
02:36:50,640 --> 02:37:01,200
alternatives? And I I I guess I would
feel awkward not giving all people that

1834
02:36:58,720 --> 02:37:08,160
came at least a a little bit of
opportunity to speak tonight. Um but I

1835
02:37:05,359 --> 02:37:11,439
also
>> I would suggest and you don't have to

1836
02:37:10,160 --> 02:37:19,600
make the suggestion. This is really a
suggestion. we have public comment and

1837
02:37:13,760 --> 02:37:23,359
then we um suspend the the um meeting
just also because we were handed a lot

1838
02:37:22,080 --> 02:37:26,240
of materials tonight. I think you're
going to be handed more materials

1839
02:37:24,560 --> 02:37:30,560
tonight. It would be good for you guys
to review and digest I

1840
02:37:28,560 --> 02:37:35,040
» um what you talked about what you
thought about your questions before you

1841
02:37:32,399 --> 02:37:40,560
come back to discussion. Um because the
next step is the deliberations and

1842
02:37:37,200 --> 02:37:43,120
really setting what conditions andor
deciding whether or not to approve or

1843
02:37:42,160 --> 02:37:46,319
not approve
>> and we would also know the result of the

1844
02:37:45,520 --> 02:37:50,080
meeting next week
>> and you would know the result of the

1845
02:37:47,439 --> 02:37:52,240
meeting next week. So is that a public
meeting?

1846
02:37:50,800 --> 02:37:54,800
» That would be a public meeting.
>> The deliberation

1847
02:37:54,240 --> 02:37:59,359
so
>> yeah with no comments. The reason I

1848
02:37:56,479 --> 02:38:02,479
asked with no public comments on
>> the public if we allowed public comments

1849
02:38:01,200 --> 02:38:04,399
tonight you wouldn't have to allow
public comments. you could if you wanted

1850
02:38:04,080 --> 02:38:09,040
to.
>> So, so this is my thought that maybe we

1851
02:38:07,120 --> 02:38:12,080
go total.
Um,

1852
02:38:10,800 --> 02:38:17,120
first of all, I want to thank you guys
for, you know, providing answers and

1853
02:38:14,720 --> 02:38:21,120
helping us get through this checklist.
Um, I didn't want to make an awkward

1854
02:38:19,120 --> 02:38:26,160
transition and just getting late. But
what if we go till at least I would say

1855
02:38:24,000 --> 02:38:30,399
quarter of just giving folks who are
here because they came here and they

1856
02:38:27,760 --> 02:38:35,760
listened for all these hours a chance to
to speak. But also when we resume after

1857
02:38:34,000 --> 02:38:39,760
we because it sounds like we're going to
have another meeting after we go over

1858
02:38:37,200 --> 02:38:44,000
all this and we discuss give give the
public another opportunity another

1859
02:38:42,080 --> 02:38:47,840
window to speak after they've had a
chance to process as well if that seems

1860
02:38:46,640 --> 02:38:51,840
scary that
>> I would second that proposal.

1861
02:38:50,720 --> 02:38:55,600
» I don't know if you'd have to make a
motion of that but I think you could I

1862
02:38:54,160 --> 02:38:59,600
think that is what the board should say.
>> Yeah. We do we have consensus with that

1863
02:38:57,680 --> 02:39:03,280
idea.
>> So 15 more minutes.

1864
02:39:00,880 --> 02:39:06,160
» Yeah. give give these guys 15 minutes
to,

1865
02:39:04,720 --> 02:39:09,439
» you know, get started, but also give
them another another opportunity the

1866
02:39:07,840 --> 02:39:15,200
next time we meet.
>> And um

1867
02:39:12,479 --> 02:39:18,240
» um I generally approve of the idea. We
may want to do a little more than 15

1868
02:39:16,399 --> 02:39:21,600
minutes because I count at least eight
people here. That's, you know, less than

1869
02:39:20,000 --> 02:39:25,359
two minutes a person.
>> Try for 15 minutes, but I'm going to

1870
02:39:23,280 --> 02:39:28,319
make a hard stop at 10. How's that?
>> I I think I could agree.

1871
02:39:26,720 --> 02:39:32,800
» Just
procedurally, you should if you're going

1872
02:39:30,319 --> 02:39:37,120
to continue the meeting then you should
have public comment from the first on

1873
02:39:35,120 --> 02:39:39,120
the next agenda.
>> Yes.

1874
02:39:38,000 --> 02:39:43,359
» Before the vote.
>> Y I just wanted to make sure that

1875
02:39:41,680 --> 02:39:46,399
» Yeah. Just consistent with Yeah, I think
that's what I was saying.

1876
02:39:44,880 --> 02:39:51,520
» We could just postpone all public
comments until the next meeting.

1877
02:39:47,600 --> 02:39:56,560
» I I just I just feel I I I would I would
not sleep well letting these guys say

1878
02:39:54,560 --> 02:40:04,560
something. They've been very patient.
So, I'm I'm going to entertain.

1879
02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:09,040
» So, I would like to motion that we have
30 more 30 minutes of public comment up

1880
02:40:06,800 --> 02:40:13,200
to 30 minutes of public comment and then
suspend this and have another period of

1881
02:40:12,000 --> 02:40:16,240
public comment and our final
deliberations at an upcoming the next

1882
02:40:15,439 --> 02:40:20,880
meeting.
>> Do I hear a second on that?

1883
02:40:19,520 --> 02:40:27,760
» I second that.
>> Um, all in favor of that.

1884
02:40:24,720 --> 02:40:31,319
I see at least the majority.
>> Um, [laughter] okay.

1885
02:40:32,479 --> 02:40:40,479
» And I'm gonna ask all you is it okay if
I have the time?

1886
02:40:37,840 --> 02:40:45,439
» Yes. Thank you.
>> And and I I will remind that

1887
02:40:43,760 --> 02:40:50,240
well I I'm not going to remind you of
anything. It's just you've been in the

1888
02:40:48,160 --> 02:40:54,960
room. So you'll have other opportunities
but go ahead.

1889
02:40:52,000 --> 02:41:00,160
» So you all know me. I'm Sally Williams.
This is my son Christopher Chase. We

1890
02:40:56,720 --> 02:41:04,560
live at 2790 Friendship Road.
I want to address some of the questions

1891
02:41:02,000 --> 02:41:10,960
that were not answered and I'm going to
start with the photo simulations.

1892
02:41:08,399 --> 02:41:14,720
So, we know that last meeting on the
9th, Attorney Dval made his apologies

1893
02:41:12,880 --> 02:41:18,880
for speaking out of turn in the November
25, 2025 planning board meeting about

1894
02:41:17,120 --> 02:41:23,120
the options for photos to be taken from
people's properties. He indicated at

1895
02:41:21,600 --> 02:41:28,160
that meeting that when he went back and
quote unquote fought with folks, it was

1896
02:41:26,000 --> 02:41:32,479
a hard no that they just don't do what
we originally asked.

1897
02:41:30,640 --> 02:41:38,240
Um
I just I have a problem with that

1898
02:41:35,760 --> 02:41:43,600
because
we were promised something. There is the

1899
02:41:41,760 --> 02:41:48,880
ordinance that requires the photo
simulations to be done and it states

1900
02:41:45,760 --> 02:41:56,399
that we get to ask for what we want. We
did. A list was given to them, but they

1901
02:41:52,080 --> 02:42:01,359
were not taken as specified.
There are actually some problems with

1902
02:41:58,800 --> 02:42:05,680
those photos. I don't know if any of you
have them here with you or would you

1903
02:42:03,280 --> 02:42:11,319
like me to hold up the images when as I
speak about them?

1904
02:42:08,000 --> 02:42:11,319
» That's probably

1905
02:42:13,359 --> 02:42:16,840
» I've got them.

1906
02:42:17,040 --> 02:42:21,600
» All right.
I limit it. There are problems with many

1907
02:42:19,760 --> 02:42:28,000
of the photos because they were not
taken and they minimize what is actually

1908
02:42:24,960 --> 02:42:30,880
going to be seen by the residents. So,
I'm going to pull them up one at a time

1909
02:42:29,359 --> 02:42:37,520
and I'll have Chris bring it around and
show it to you. So, my first primary

1910
02:42:33,600 --> 02:42:44,240
concern is the image that is for 2500
Friendship Row, which is photo 2A.

1911
02:42:41,040 --> 02:42:48,560
Because it was taken from a public
rightway, it does not represent what the

1912
02:42:46,960 --> 02:42:52,240
homeowner would actually see because
just past the bushes in the picture, the

1913
02:42:50,640 --> 02:42:58,359
view opens up providing the homeowner
with a very different vista.

1914
02:42:54,399 --> 02:42:58,359
» It's completely different.

1915
02:43:00,000 --> 02:43:04,880
» Which side was on this one, Mom?
>> I'm sorry.

1916
02:43:02,880 --> 02:43:08,720
» Yeah, I don't see a tile on that sign.
>> Uh, so this is the driveway. The opening

1917
02:43:07,520 --> 02:43:11,359
is right here.
>> That's right. Yes, that's this one.

1918
02:43:10,319 --> 02:43:15,040
Yeah.
>> So, do you have an image of what the

1919
02:43:13,359 --> 02:43:18,319
owner would
>> do you have the image of what the owner

1920
02:43:16,640 --> 02:43:23,439
would see? Did you take it?
>> Do you have the image

1921
02:43:20,240 --> 02:43:25,359
» exists? Yes. Are you Are you saying like
we we were getting a little superimposed

1922
02:43:24,960 --> 02:43:28,800
of
>> No. Do you have a photo of the balloon

1923
02:43:27,120 --> 02:43:32,080
test that a
>> I don't have it with me, but yeah.

1924
02:43:30,479 --> 02:43:35,520
» Well, I mean, so you're saying this is
not what the owner would see.

1925
02:43:33,680 --> 02:43:37,520
» So, can you plan to bring it next time?
>> You don't have what the owner,

1926
02:43:37,200 --> 02:43:41,359
» right?
>> But you do have it,

1927
02:43:39,200 --> 02:43:49,279
» right? So we will provide that in the
next public comments. The next one is

1928
02:43:44,720 --> 02:43:52,760
the image for 2458 friendship road which
is 17A.

1929
02:43:53,520 --> 02:44:02,160
That's the picture that was taken.
However, there has GPS coordinates on

1930
02:43:59,120 --> 02:44:07,200
it. The actual GPS coordinates are for
2450

1931
02:44:03,680 --> 02:44:12,399
Friendship Road, not 2458.
So it was not taken at the specified

1932
02:44:09,840 --> 02:44:19,560
property. So that is not in compliance.
The town asked for 2458.

1933
02:44:15,760 --> 02:44:19,560
It was taken at 2450.

1934
02:44:26,319 --> 02:44:33,279
» It's another house all together. Another
driveway. So it's not even remotely

1935
02:44:31,200 --> 02:44:38,479
close. And then of course there's my
property.

1936
02:44:35,040 --> 02:44:45,960
So, the photos for my property are 4 A
and 4B.

1937
02:44:40,960 --> 02:44:45,960
And hold on a second.

1938
02:44:46,080 --> 02:44:53,439
This is what it looks like. Show them
that first, please.

1939
02:44:50,800 --> 02:44:58,880
That's what is being shown as represents
Christopher's in my property.

1940
02:44:56,640 --> 02:45:03,279
Now, I did email Kate about this, and
Kate did make some inquiries about it,

1941
02:45:01,520 --> 02:45:08,080
and it was acknowledged that it was not
taken at my home, but from the entrance

1942
02:45:05,439 --> 02:45:12,000
of my driveway.
>> However, the GPS coordinates for that

1943
02:45:11,120 --> 02:45:15,760
image.
>> Yeah.

1944
02:45:13,359 --> 02:45:21,920
» The picture was actually taken, now I'm
2790.

1945
02:45:17,359 --> 02:45:28,479
The picture was actually taken at 2810
and it's of an image of 27.88.

1946
02:45:25,760 --> 02:45:32,640
That's not my house, not even remotely.
And I understand that I have an easement

1947
02:45:30,560 --> 02:45:38,080
driveway, but there was a reason why I
asked for the pictures to be taken from

1948
02:45:35,200 --> 02:45:45,240
my property. Now, we're going to show
you what it would actually look like

1949
02:45:40,399 --> 02:45:45,240
from our property,

1950
02:45:48,080 --> 02:45:57,120
right? Let's really take a look at that.
This is the my house. That is my deck.

1951
02:45:54,000 --> 02:46:00,560
That is the balloon.
An answer to your questions earlier.

1952
02:45:59,120 --> 02:46:04,399
What this is going to look like.
>> Yeah.

1953
02:46:01,200 --> 02:46:10,640
» Right. This is not going to be pretty.
That is a You can use your imagination.

1954
02:46:08,160 --> 02:46:16,240
That is tethered.
It's going to have a threepart tower,

1955
02:46:14,080 --> 02:46:20,560
three sides.
>> Did you take this photo yourself?

1956
02:46:18,240 --> 02:46:22,880
» Yes, ma'am. Because nobody did. because
nobody Okay, that's it.

1957
02:46:21,920 --> 02:46:24,640
» And it's going to have all the
collocators on it.

1958
02:46:24,160 --> 02:46:26,720
» Got
>> four potentials.

1959
02:46:25,920 --> 02:46:30,479
» That is
>> three panels a piece in height at the

1960
02:46:29,840 --> 02:46:33,920
top.
>> This is standing in our driveway.

1961
02:46:32,960 --> 02:46:36,080
» That other photo was
>> This is actually from my h inside the

1962
02:46:35,760 --> 02:46:39,680
house.
>> Oh, you said that inside the house.

1963
02:46:37,439 --> 02:46:44,720
» That's inside the house.
>> Okay.

1964
02:46:41,279 --> 02:46:51,359
» So, this is not going to be Oh, it's off
the street. I'm not going to see it.

1965
02:46:48,640 --> 02:46:57,439
And these pictures should have been done
for you with the images superimposed so

1966
02:46:55,200 --> 02:47:00,880
you could determine effectively whether
there's going to be negative aesthetic

1967
02:46:59,279 --> 02:47:03,760
impact.
>> Yeah, that would be nice to have the

1968
02:47:02,560 --> 02:47:06,880
tower.
>> Don't you think?

1969
02:47:04,479 --> 02:47:08,000
» Just super just to g give you a a real
sense.

1970
02:47:07,359 --> 02:47:10,399
» Correct.
>> And I think you can do that, right? I'm

1971
02:47:09,760 --> 02:47:13,760
no
>> Are those digital photos?

1972
02:47:12,240 --> 02:47:17,920
» I took digital camera.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Is that something I my tech

1973
02:47:16,319 --> 02:47:21,760
is really
>> well without having without having the

1974
02:47:20,080 --> 02:47:24,880
GPS coordinates of exactly where we
stood, they wouldn't be able to

1975
02:47:22,880 --> 02:47:29,840
superimpose
>> um on the Well, like you know that the

1976
02:47:27,600 --> 02:47:34,399
balloon is allegedly the top. So could
somebody photoshop in a tower?

1977
02:47:32,240 --> 02:47:36,319
» Well, sure, but it's a But why have I
got to do that?

1978
02:47:35,279 --> 02:47:40,479
» I'm not asking.
>> Why do I have to do that? I I'm I'm I

1979
02:47:38,399 --> 02:47:45,200
guess what I'm thinking is if if you
were to provide the digital

1980
02:47:42,720 --> 02:47:48,000
» to I don't actually want to give them
anything. I'm I'm being belligerent and

1981
02:47:47,359 --> 02:47:51,520
I know that.
>> No, that's all right. I I'm I'm just

1982
02:47:49,439 --> 02:47:55,359
trying to solve problems for people.
>> It was it was our understanding for the

1983
02:47:53,040 --> 02:47:58,640
last for the last meeting that one of
the reason why they didn't do this go on

1984
02:47:57,040 --> 02:48:00,960
people's property because of a liability
issue and they weren't they were allowed

1985
02:48:00,479 --> 02:48:05,760
to do that
>> and I was allowed to sign the waiver. I

1986
02:48:02,960 --> 02:48:09,279
w I agreed to sign a waiver. Well,
>> did you

1987
02:48:07,279 --> 02:48:13,840
What about Maine's landowner liability
laws that protect anyone on someone?

1988
02:48:11,359 --> 02:48:19,920
Like Maine has a landowner liability law
that protects anyone who crosses anyone

1989
02:48:16,800 --> 02:48:23,439
else's property. So why was Maine's
liability law not taken into effect on

1990
02:48:22,399 --> 02:48:28,240
that?
>> In other words, just to clarify what you

1991
02:48:25,840 --> 02:48:32,479
said, in other words, if somebody's out
hunting deer and crosses your property

1992
02:48:30,240 --> 02:48:35,600
and they break their leg, the owner is
not liable for that.

1993
02:48:33,439 --> 02:48:38,560
» Yeah. Not if you're hunting deer. No. As
long as you are just walking across

1994
02:48:37,200 --> 02:48:41,439
someone's property
>> and as long as you do not put out a

1995
02:48:40,399 --> 02:48:45,120
trap,
>> the law does not stand if you're like

1996
02:48:43,040 --> 02:48:49,840
putting bootby sats on your property.
But as long as you're not putting booty

1997
02:48:46,479 --> 02:48:53,120
traps on your property,
>> you are allowed to walk on anyone's

1998
02:48:51,520 --> 02:48:58,080
property and the you cannot see the
land. So I was just curious as to why

1999
02:48:56,160 --> 02:49:02,319
they're saying they couldn't take photos
because of liability, but Maine has a

2000
02:49:00,319 --> 02:49:05,520
landowner liability.
That is genuinely a question. This was

2001
02:49:04,560 --> 02:49:08,960
the one.
>> So, I give that all to you to think

2002
02:49:07,120 --> 02:49:13,200
about, but I want to in the interest of
time, I have more important information

2003
02:49:11,200 --> 02:49:18,160
that I think you need to do that will
answer some of your questions and Daniel

2004
02:49:15,040 --> 02:49:24,720
some of yours. So, I looked at that
impact study and I'll be honest with

2005
02:49:21,279 --> 02:49:29,279
you, I was appalled.
So, I did some homework

2006
02:49:27,439 --> 02:49:35,920
and
that is not even remotely what should

2007
02:49:33,760 --> 02:49:43,200
have occurred.
So, I contacted another appraiser and I

2008
02:49:40,319 --> 02:49:50,160
didn't ask them do an appraisal because
it's expensive. It's very costly to have

2009
02:49:45,760 --> 02:49:55,279
them do that. But I share with you what
an impact study is supposed to look like

2010
02:49:52,880 --> 02:50:00,560
because I had another appraiser give it
to me. That's what you should have

2011
02:49:58,000 --> 02:50:07,680
received. And Daniel, you are absolutely
correct. None of that data

2012
02:50:04,880 --> 02:50:12,399
opinions. It's nothing. There is no data
in it at all. And I'm going to explain

2013
02:50:10,319 --> 02:50:17,279
to you why.
>> It is absolutely a bogus piece of

2014
02:50:15,600 --> 02:50:21,359
information.
And I have here

2015
02:50:19,760 --> 02:50:29,120
from
that appraiser his critique

2016
02:50:25,760 --> 02:50:33,080
and it explains why it's eight pages but
I'm going to give you some highlights.

2017
02:50:36,720 --> 02:50:45,359
So I had um
certified a New Hampshire certified

2018
02:50:43,359 --> 02:50:48,479
general appraiser and he could do a
critique. He's not licensed in Maine,

2019
02:50:46,960 --> 02:50:53,359
but he can do a critique because I
didn't ask him to do an appraisal. His

2020
02:50:50,960 --> 02:50:58,160
name is Louis Manius, and he reviewed
that study by Vern Gardner and prepare

2021
02:50:55,359 --> 02:51:02,880
that was prepared for the applicant. On
page two of his letter, Mr. Mania

2022
02:51:00,560 --> 02:51:08,240
states, and I quote, "The first item
that I must highlight is that Gardner

2023
02:51:05,120 --> 02:51:13,600
did not complete a study or analyze any
data that would provide you or the board

2024
02:51:10,960 --> 02:51:18,080
market evidence to support a claim of no
impact to property value." That's a

2025
02:51:15,600 --> 02:51:24,960
direct quote. I'm going to quote again
page three. He, Vern Gardner, makes an

2026
02:51:21,840 --> 02:51:30,319
unsubstantiated comment that based on
the orientation of the property of 2790

2027
02:51:27,840 --> 02:51:35,200
Friendship Road, its distance and
obstructed view of the proposed cell

2028
02:51:32,319 --> 02:51:40,319
tower, there will be no adverse effect
on the selling price of single family

2029
02:51:36,960 --> 02:51:46,399
dwellings. The reason, according to Mr.
manus this is unsubstantiated

2030
02:51:43,200 --> 02:51:52,319
is that he never viewed the subject
property. He admits that in his own

2031
02:51:49,920 --> 02:51:57,200
report that he did not go to the
property. He was not present for the

2032
02:51:54,960 --> 02:52:01,680
balloon test and cannot make the
judgment without being present. This

2033
02:51:59,760 --> 02:52:07,520
impacts the credibility of any
conclusion he arrives at. Also on page

2034
02:52:04,800 --> 02:52:15,040
three, and I quote, although they can be
related, price, to Daniel's point, and

2035
02:52:11,680 --> 02:52:20,319
value can also be very different.
Typically, real estate agents work with

2036
02:52:17,439 --> 02:52:28,080
sellers in order to determine price to
sell a property. Value is determined

2037
02:52:24,160 --> 02:52:32,720
through exposure, negotiations, demand,
supply, concessions, and need, which are

2038
02:52:31,040 --> 02:52:40,720
then determined between the buyer and
seller. Gardner makes a conclusion above

2039
02:52:36,640 --> 02:52:45,359
regarding price only which is what was
some of what was discussed here that all

2040
02:52:42,800 --> 02:52:51,439
it was was selling prices. There's a
whole lot of other data that should have

2041
02:52:47,200 --> 02:52:58,399
been considered in that example report.
He does do just that where he takes a

2042
02:52:55,200 --> 02:53:02,720
property prior and and then later and
then one that's equivalent that didn't

2043
02:53:00,240 --> 02:53:08,720
ever have a tower and then compares them
using a whole lot of other data.

2044
02:53:06,640 --> 02:53:13,200
Page three, another quote. The document
prepared by Gardner is only a survey of

2045
02:53:10,880 --> 02:53:19,760
real estate agents with no specific data
or analysis completed by an appraiser.

2046
02:53:16,240 --> 02:53:24,160
Page five. On page 27 of Vern Gardner's
document, he stated, "The purpose of

2047
02:53:22,000 --> 02:53:29,200
this exercise is to analyze an element
of value. That element of value is

2048
02:53:27,200 --> 02:53:34,080
whether or not a cellular communication
tower has any effect on the selling

2049
02:53:31,279 --> 02:53:38,479
price of a single family dwelling.
Important within the first line of the

2050
02:53:35,840 --> 02:53:42,479
conclusion page is the word analyze.
This implies that some type of analysis

2051
02:53:40,479 --> 02:53:48,720
has been completed. This could not be
further from the truth. This document is

2052
02:53:44,800 --> 02:53:53,040
a survey of unsubstantiated opinions. In
the beginning of this document, he

2053
02:53:50,399 --> 02:53:56,880
indicates a study was completed. His
document is not considered a study due

2054
02:53:54,960 --> 02:54:02,240
to the lack of data or analysis
included. His document is essentially a

2055
02:53:59,840 --> 02:54:06,479
compilation of unverified interviews
with real estate agents involved in the

2056
02:54:04,319 --> 02:54:14,399
sale of properties that are in proximity
to cell towers. H5. He generated this

2057
02:54:10,479 --> 02:54:20,000
quote unquote new study within seven
days which does not allow adequate time

2058
02:54:17,600 --> 02:54:24,880
for research and proper analysis to be
completed. It appears reasonable to

2059
02:54:22,560 --> 02:54:29,520
conclude that he did not conduct any
research in the subject community which

2060
02:54:26,880 --> 02:54:34,160
you already questioned relative to
potential cell tower impacts that may or

2061
02:54:31,680 --> 02:54:38,720
may not exist. We have two other towers
in town. there could have been some

2062
02:54:36,720 --> 02:54:43,600
research done.
Since he did not go view the subject

2063
02:54:41,359 --> 02:54:48,640
property, it would appear reasonable to
conclude that he did not take the time

2064
02:54:45,760 --> 02:54:53,040
to do any new research in Walderboro and
is trying to present this older

2065
02:54:50,319 --> 02:54:57,120
information as being credible.
His final conclusion is based upon the

2066
02:54:55,120 --> 02:55:01,439
analysis the cell tower proposed will
have no effect on the market value of

2067
02:54:58,960 --> 02:55:06,240
single family dwellings in Walderboro.
These are interviews, but there is no

2068
02:55:03,600 --> 02:55:11,359
material evidence or analysis presented
in this document to support that claim.

2069
02:55:09,279 --> 02:55:15,359
The document produced by Gardner does
not provide the board with any

2070
02:55:12,880 --> 02:55:20,960
information by which they can make a
reasonable judgment. It does not, in my

2071
02:55:18,080 --> 02:55:26,319
opinion, satisfy the criteria necessary
under the zoning application relative to

2072
02:55:23,680 --> 02:55:32,640
impact to property values.
per Louie Manius. It is my conclusion

2073
02:55:30,160 --> 02:55:36,960
that the gardener report is lacking in
enough detail and has no current

2074
02:55:34,560 --> 02:55:40,720
analysis of any kind specific to
Walderboro or the surrounding

2075
02:55:38,800 --> 02:55:45,359
communities and that the planning board
for the town of Walderboroough, Maine,

2076
02:55:42,319 --> 02:55:50,880
should not rely on it based on its aged
content with unsupported conclusions.

2077
02:55:48,560 --> 02:55:56,560
The Gardner report fails to provide any
data or credible analysis that will

2078
02:55:53,600 --> 02:56:03,279
support a conclusion of no change to the
market value of abuing properties.

2079
02:56:00,399 --> 02:56:08,880
» A quick question. Did in in this
research that you've done um did anybody

2080
02:56:06,880 --> 02:56:12,720
tell you how much something like this
would cost and roughly how long it would

2081
02:56:11,200 --> 02:56:16,000
take to execute?
>> He did tell me a good analysis would

2082
02:56:14,800 --> 02:56:19,359
take two months.
>> Okay. the cost

2083
02:56:17,840 --> 02:56:26,319
» uh5
to$10,000 was my understanding

2084
02:56:23,439 --> 02:56:33,439
» and his and the end of that example one
it does say that it is just logical

2085
02:56:30,960 --> 02:56:38,880
right as was said that there's going to
be negative impact there's just no

2086
02:56:36,399 --> 02:56:43,359
getting around it it's going to vary the
national realtors association on their

2087
02:56:41,279 --> 02:56:48,000
web page will even say it does cause
negative value but it varies Because

2088
02:56:46,399 --> 02:56:52,080
there are variables that have to be
considered. The proximity, how tall the

2089
02:56:50,080 --> 02:56:59,120
tower is, how visible it is, all of
those things. But you cannot say there

2090
02:56:54,960 --> 02:57:06,800
will not be negative aesthetic impact.
And that falls under undesirable change.

2091
02:57:04,399 --> 02:57:12,000
If we allow this to go forward, we're
going to suffer financially because of

2092
02:57:09,200 --> 02:57:17,520
that. So will several other houses.
Those photo simulation photos do not

2093
02:57:14,800 --> 02:57:22,479
really show the impact to the
neighborhood and to the other houses. A

2094
02:57:20,319 --> 02:57:26,720
lot of the photos are taken from the
street, but people have windows in the

2095
02:57:24,560 --> 02:57:30,479
back of their houses and they can see
something different from the backside of

2096
02:57:28,640 --> 02:57:35,840
their house than can be seen from their
driveway.

2097
02:57:32,720 --> 02:57:42,479
So this is not fulfilling the land use
requirements in order to tell us so that

2098
02:57:38,880 --> 02:57:47,040
you can make a really informed decision.
>> I think would be good again a

2099
02:57:44,560 --> 02:57:53,000
superimposing of the tower from that
picture you took.

2100
02:57:48,880 --> 02:57:53,000
» That's what they were supposed to do.

2101
02:57:53,040 --> 02:58:00,560
» That picture would speak volumes.
>> So float a balloon. I will sign off on

2102
02:57:58,960 --> 02:58:04,479
you coming to my house and taking all
the pictures that make you happy.

2103
02:58:02,399 --> 02:58:10,359
» That picture again
the uh the big photo.

2104
02:58:07,359 --> 02:58:10,359
» Yeah.

2105
02:58:14,399 --> 02:58:21,040
» November. Yeah. But in November. Yes.
>> This one.

2106
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:28,520
» So I would ask the board to take that
impact study and set it a

2107
02:58:23,920 --> 02:58:28,520
» talking people get here.

2108
02:58:29,680 --> 02:58:32,840
This is

2109
02:58:40,560 --> 02:58:47,279
» so I would just ask that the impact
study created by Vern Gardner be set

2110
02:58:45,040 --> 02:58:54,720
aside and not be considered as
acceptable meeting land use criteria.

2111
02:58:50,640 --> 02:59:00,160
And as a side note, Burn Gardner has a
huge history in litigation where he's an

2112
02:58:57,920 --> 02:59:05,040
expert witness where he has been proven
not to be credible and if you want that

2113
02:59:02,399 --> 02:59:08,319
information, I can give it to you. He's
also been caught lying in court and I

2114
02:59:06,880 --> 02:59:13,200
can also provide you with that
information. So please think very

2115
02:59:11,600 --> 02:59:18,160
strongly about whether you want to
accept that impact study provided by

2116
02:59:15,760 --> 02:59:22,080
Blue Sky Towers.
The other couple of things that I would

2117
02:59:19,680 --> 02:59:27,200
like to touch on and I will go away
because I know everybody needs to go

2118
02:59:23,520 --> 02:59:32,640
home but the application has
historically even in its current form

2119
02:59:29,840 --> 02:59:36,800
had inconsistencies throughout it.
Please be aware of that and I won't go

2120
02:59:35,120 --> 02:59:40,399
into all of them tonight. I can bring
more of that to your attention next time

2121
02:59:38,319 --> 02:59:49,600
if you want.
The application also does not provide

2122
02:59:44,240 --> 02:59:55,920
any real actual RF data needs. There are
specific things that I would ask you to

2123
02:59:53,040 --> 03:00:02,720
be requesting from the applicant in
order to prove that the maps are there.

2124
02:59:58,560 --> 03:00:10,080
That's great. But I want to know more
than just that. I want to know um

2125
03:00:07,840 --> 03:00:14,000
actual size of the gap. They do the
maths. What's the actual size of the

2126
03:00:11,680 --> 03:00:18,640
gap? The number of users in that
reported gap. How many of Verizon's

2127
03:00:16,560 --> 03:00:24,640
users in the area are actually affected
by the gap? We do have 10,000 acres of

2128
03:00:21,200 --> 03:00:28,399
conservation land, right? the Verizon's
data about the percentage of

2129
03:00:25,920 --> 03:00:33,359
unsuccessful calls or inadequate service
during calls in a said gap along the

2130
03:00:30,560 --> 03:00:37,760
area along with drop call records from
Verizon because that's the only place

2131
03:00:35,359 --> 03:00:43,040
you can get them and actual road drive
test data for the area they want to

2132
03:00:39,680 --> 03:00:49,120
serve. That would really give us hard
information on what the need is, not

2133
03:00:46,000 --> 03:00:54,080
propagation maps that are created by
predictive modeling.

2134
03:00:51,680 --> 03:00:58,640
And it's all based on what they put in
the system that they want it to show.

2135
03:00:56,720 --> 03:01:03,439
And I said it last time and I'm going to
say it again. There's questions about

2136
03:01:00,399 --> 03:01:10,240
whether that program is still supported.
All research shows that it was dropped

2137
03:01:06,560 --> 03:01:15,120
in 2004, no longer supported by Ericson.
The trademark has been cancelled

2138
03:01:13,200 --> 03:01:19,439
» and it was not designed for the current
generations of cell phones. It was

2139
03:01:16,800 --> 03:01:24,560
designed for the cell phones of that era
up to 3G. And if I'm making ridiculous

2140
03:01:22,479 --> 03:01:28,160
comments, so be it. You saw what this is
going to do to my property and the

2141
03:01:25,920 --> 03:01:31,760
potential of what it's going to do to my
property value should we need to sell

2142
03:01:30,160 --> 03:01:38,399
that house at some point?
>> Does your research um show a the name of

2143
03:01:36,479 --> 03:01:42,000
an alternative modeling?
>> There's several out there and they're

2144
03:01:39,520 --> 03:01:47,040
all a lot of them have AI stuff. The
only person on the internet, the only

2145
03:01:44,319 --> 03:01:50,880
company is CQ Systems that is still
using decibel planner. I can find no

2146
03:01:48,960 --> 03:01:55,120
reference to it anywhere else and there
are other reports out there. They are

2147
03:01:52,399 --> 03:01:58,319
the only ones. And I want to address
that marine thing you said about

2148
03:01:56,640 --> 03:02:05,920
lobstering.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the

2149
03:02:02,399 --> 03:02:12,720
Telecommunications Act of 1996,
cell towers are a landont controlled

2150
03:02:09,920 --> 03:02:18,720
service.
The FCC has different systems that cover

2151
03:02:16,399 --> 03:02:22,080
what goes out over the water. If you
look at the propagation maps, they're

2152
03:02:20,399 --> 03:02:27,760
not showing you that there's coverage
over the water. There's no green over

2153
03:02:23,760 --> 03:02:32,399
any of that because they can't they
cannot tell you it's going to provide

2154
03:02:29,200 --> 03:02:36,720
coverage there. So, you can't use that
as a basis

2155
03:02:34,560 --> 03:02:41,920
for well, we might have some help for
lobsters. You might lobster men. You

2156
03:02:39,359 --> 03:02:46,960
might. You might,
>> but it's a lucky happen stance. It's not

2157
03:02:44,160 --> 03:02:51,600
guaranteed because radio communications
is what they're supposed to be using out

2158
03:02:49,279 --> 03:02:56,000
on open water. That's a whole different
system. And they can't promise you that

2159
03:02:53,920 --> 03:03:02,640
there's going to be any coverage to help
lobstermen and clammers.

2160
03:02:58,880 --> 03:03:08,399
So, that's one piece. And as far as when
you ask, please ask the emergency

2161
03:03:05,439 --> 03:03:13,279
service people not for their reports of
what they've heard. Please ask for real

2162
03:03:10,800 --> 03:03:20,960
data.
>> I I will, but I don't know that there'll

2163
03:03:17,120 --> 03:03:26,160
be real data other than anecdotal data.
>> But that's not that's not quantifiable.

2164
03:03:23,200 --> 03:03:32,080
» But I understand that. But if you can't
make a phone call, I don't know how that

2165
03:03:28,960 --> 03:03:36,160
gets recorded. But there is systems for
that and you need to ask that question

2166
03:03:34,640 --> 03:03:41,279
because
an anecdotal story is just that. It's an

2167
03:03:39,200 --> 03:03:47,840
anecdote. I'm not saying it didn't
happen. But again, just like looking at

2168
03:03:44,800 --> 03:03:52,880
that impact study and needing hard data,
you need the same thing around where

2169
03:03:51,120 --> 03:03:55,840
were they? Were they in a low spot?
because the sell service may never make

2170
03:03:54,399 --> 03:03:59,520
the low low spots
>> and so that may not be stuff we can

2171
03:03:58,240 --> 03:04:01,200
produce again,
>> right?

2172
03:04:00,080 --> 03:04:05,840
» I'll do my best,
>> right? But I just I want to make sure we

2173
03:04:03,359 --> 03:04:11,279
understand that quantitative hard
concrete data is what you should be

2174
03:04:08,160 --> 03:04:15,120
using as opposed to anecdotal things
which is qualitative.

2175
03:04:13,279 --> 03:04:20,720
And there's all kinds of factors that
could have influenced that. old old cell

2176
03:04:18,160 --> 03:04:24,880
phones that you know don't work very
well or weren't meant to they should

2177
03:04:22,720 --> 03:04:29,439
have been replaced 20 years ago or
whatever, but you can't just determine

2178
03:04:27,760 --> 03:04:35,680
it could have been the weather that day.
We don't fog impacts things sometimes.

2179
03:04:33,040 --> 03:04:40,399
So, you need to look for really hard
data.

2180
03:04:37,439 --> 03:04:44,960
And with I'm sure, trust me, and I know
I will have more things to say next

2181
03:04:42,080 --> 03:04:49,520
time, but I will leave you tonight.
Thank you for indulging for this amount

2182
03:04:46,960 --> 03:04:53,439
of time so I could at least give you the
actual factual data that I had collected

2183
03:04:52,160 --> 03:04:57,040
that I thought it was important for you
to see.

2184
03:04:53,920 --> 03:05:00,720
» Points don't use shiptoshore radio. They
use cell phones because they're their

2185
03:04:59,200 --> 03:05:04,319
vessels are not designed for that.
They're they're basically

2186
03:05:02,399 --> 03:05:10,319
» and that's fine, but that still doesn't
guarantee coverage on the water.

2187
03:05:06,960 --> 03:05:14,319
» Oh no, I don't I don't
I don't think there's I don't think

2188
03:05:12,080 --> 03:05:19,920
there's a guarantee. But I will say that
the maps did show some of the some of

2189
03:05:16,640 --> 03:05:21,600
the islands and I think you none of it's
absolute

2190
03:05:21,040 --> 03:05:27,920
» right
>> point but but you you could see changes

2191
03:05:26,080 --> 03:05:32,399
according to that modeling that would
were positive on some of the islands and

2192
03:05:30,319 --> 03:05:37,200
so you can infer
>> you can infer absolutely but it's not a

2193
03:05:34,880 --> 03:05:40,960
guarantee. I don't think any of it's a
guarantee with our geography to be

2194
03:05:38,960 --> 03:05:45,920
honest with you. But anyway, no, I
appreciate your I appreciate your

2195
03:05:42,160 --> 03:05:52,640
promise. I appreciate your hard work.
>> I just want to say even kayakers have

2196
03:05:49,120 --> 03:05:58,319
channel 16 radios attached to them. Like
yeah, kayakers have it. like that is

2197
03:05:55,359 --> 03:06:04,319
standard water safety is to have a
marine channel radio talk tuned into

2198
03:06:00,800 --> 03:06:08,200
channel 16 whether you're walking or
kaming or whatever.

2199
03:06:08,880 --> 03:06:18,279
» Um we have four minutes. Are there any
last shots or people to wait until the

2200
03:06:15,279 --> 03:06:18,279
next

2201
03:06:20,880 --> 03:06:27,000
» minute?
>> Okay. All right. Can you go to the left

2202
03:06:24,000 --> 03:06:27,000
for

2203
03:06:31,760 --> 03:06:38,640
some of this may have been something
inferred um some of you but not all were

2204
03:06:36,160 --> 03:06:42,880
present um when it was last shared. So
just for clarity and simplicity there

2205
03:06:40,560 --> 03:06:46,319
are three points to focus on in the
forefront to keep it in the forefront of

2206
03:06:44,479 --> 03:06:50,800
our minds. Each one is explained in
greater depth in the memo of opposition.

2207
03:06:48,720 --> 03:06:55,840
So number one, propagation maps do not
pro prove the existence of a significant

2208
03:06:53,040 --> 03:06:59,840
gap in service. The gap must be, and
this is quoting from the memo, the gap

2209
03:06:58,160 --> 03:07:04,240
must be large enough in terms of
physical size and number of users

2210
03:07:01,600 --> 03:07:09,680
affected to distinguish it from a mere
and statutoily permissible dead spot.

2211
03:07:07,040 --> 03:07:14,160
Indeed, federal regulations contemplate
that areas enjoying adequate coverage

2212
03:07:12,080 --> 03:07:19,840
will still include spots without
reliable service. Dead spots are defined

2213
03:07:17,040 --> 03:07:24,479
as small areas within a service area
where the field strength is lower than

2214
03:07:22,000 --> 03:07:28,560
the minimum number level for a reliable
service and the presence of dead spots

2215
03:07:26,560 --> 03:07:33,680
does not mean that the service is per se
inadequate.

2216
03:07:30,479 --> 03:07:37,760
Sally already. So bearing that in mind,
uh, have we received the substantive

2217
03:07:35,840 --> 03:07:42,160
report that tells us the physical size
of the said gap, the number of users a

2218
03:07:39,920 --> 03:07:46,960
said gap affects, whether all of the
carriers users in that area are

2219
03:07:44,240 --> 03:07:51,120
similarly affected by said gaps, data
about percentages of unsuccessful calls

2220
03:07:49,120 --> 03:07:56,960
or inadequate service during calls in
said gap area. Hard data such as dropped

2221
03:07:54,720 --> 03:08:01,520
call records and drive test data from a
third party. So a third party is

2222
03:07:59,200 --> 03:08:06,800
straightforward avoiding error or
inaccuracy and essential to determining

2223
03:08:04,080 --> 03:08:10,960
process that's before the board. Number
two, the proposed cell tower is

2224
03:08:08,560 --> 03:08:15,359
incompatible with our town's responsible
comprehensive plan and land use

2225
03:08:13,040 --> 03:08:19,680
ordinance are two visionary documents
that uphold town values and is used as a

2226
03:08:17,840 --> 03:08:25,359
measure to identify what stands to
jeopardize those values.

2227
03:08:22,399 --> 03:08:29,439
A variance from a 300yard restriction is
only permissible if granting such

2228
03:08:27,600 --> 03:08:32,640
granting does not result in an
undesirable change in the character of

2229
03:08:31,279 --> 03:08:36,560
the neighborhood and will not
unreasonably detrimentally affect the

2230
03:08:34,880 --> 03:08:41,600
use or market value of abunding
properties. Also from the memo, quote,

2231
03:08:39,840 --> 03:08:45,680
"Federal courts around the country,
including the US Court of Appeals for

2232
03:08:43,200 --> 03:08:49,920
the 1st, 2nd, 7th, 9th, and tenth
circuits, have specifically held that

2233
03:08:48,000 --> 03:08:54,080
significant or unnecessary adverse
aesthetic impacts are proper legal

2234
03:08:52,160 --> 03:08:57,840
grounds upon which local governments may
deny a zoning application seeking

2235
03:08:55,920 --> 03:09:02,720
approval for constructing a wireless
telecommunications facility." Also

2236
03:09:00,160 --> 03:09:06,560
quote, "As logic would dictate and as
federal courts have held, it is the

2237
03:09:04,399 --> 03:09:10,720
homeowners who are best suited to
accurately assess the nature and extent

2238
03:09:08,560 --> 03:09:14,399
of adverse aesthetic impacts of an
irresponsibly placed wireless

2239
03:09:12,240 --> 03:09:18,240
telecommunications facility upon their
homes. This is especially true of

2240
03:09:16,319 --> 03:09:23,040
homeowners whose property is adjacent or
in close proximity to a proposed cell

2241
03:09:20,319 --> 03:09:26,720
tower." Quote, "Federal courts have
recognized that it is completely proper

2242
03:09:25,120 --> 03:09:31,040
for the local zoning authority to
consider the professional opinions of

2243
03:09:28,560 --> 03:09:36,000
licensed real estate brokers as opposed
to appraisers as direct evidence of the

2244
03:09:34,319 --> 03:09:40,640
reduction in property value that an
irresponsibly placed wireless facility

2245
03:09:38,160 --> 03:09:44,319
would inflict upon nearby homes. And
number three, the board has the

2246
03:09:42,640 --> 03:09:48,240
authority to uphold our town's
responsible comprehensive plan and land

2247
03:09:46,560 --> 03:09:52,479
use ordinance without the threat of
suit. Documentation sufficiently

2248
03:09:50,640 --> 03:09:55,920
explains how the proposed cell tower
would have an undesirable change to the

2249
03:09:54,479 --> 03:10:00,000
character of the neighborhood, a
negative aesthetic impact to immediate

2250
03:09:57,920 --> 03:10:06,000
or nearby neighbors and a negative
market value impact to immediate or

2251
03:10:02,160 --> 03:10:10,800
nearby neighbors. an in writing decision
to deny the proposed cell tower based on

2252
03:10:08,479 --> 03:10:15,439
the substantive evidence satisfies the
requirements of the Telecommunications

2253
03:10:12,479 --> 03:10:22,120
Act of 1996.
Um, and then just as a I'll save it for

2254
03:10:22,240 --> 03:10:33,200
» just before I entertain the the motion
to adjourn, is there

2255
03:10:29,359 --> 03:10:38,479
is there any chance that
I'm thinking particularly of the

2256
03:10:36,319 --> 03:10:45,760
the appraisal
and the the uh propagation maps with to

2257
03:10:43,200 --> 03:10:51,200
their point. Is there any
is there any possibility that um the

2258
03:10:48,640 --> 03:10:58,000
blue sky team would entertain those
suggestions

2259
03:10:52,800 --> 03:11:01,760
to redo those two items?
>> I will follow up with blue sky. That

2260
03:11:00,240 --> 03:11:05,520
that sounds absolutely that sounds
great.

2261
03:11:02,640 --> 03:11:07,439
» Um I'm willing to entertain a motion to
continue the meeting. Is that the

2262
03:11:06,880 --> 03:11:13,359
correct
>> I think we have to set the time for the

2263
03:11:12,319 --> 03:11:16,080
» say the motion.
>> Okay.

2264
03:11:14,080 --> 03:11:20,640
» It would be at the next board meeting.
>> But before we do that,

2265
03:11:18,080 --> 03:11:24,240
» when does the stop clock run out?
>> Uh it would be the end of September. So

2266
03:11:22,640 --> 03:11:29,279
our next meeting would be within
>> So we're fine.

2267
03:11:25,439 --> 03:11:31,279
» Okay. And our next meeting
>> would be the second Thursday of

2268
03:11:30,720 --> 03:11:33,040
September,
>> which is the 10th.

2269
03:11:32,240 --> 03:11:36,720
» The 10th.
>> And the appeals board is meeting when?

2270
03:11:35,359 --> 03:11:39,200
» Next week.
>> On the 20th.

2271
03:11:38,160 --> 03:11:43,840
» Oh, yes. 20th.
>> Yeah. 20th at 6:30.

2272
03:11:41,279 --> 03:11:48,080
» Okay. I move that we continue this
matter until our next regularly

2273
03:11:46,000 --> 03:11:51,439
scheduled meeting and adjourn this
meeting.

2274
03:11:50,640 --> 03:11:57,840
» I second that.
>> All in favor?

2275
03:11:54,319 --> 03:11:57,840
Thank you to everybody watching