1
00:01:05,230 --> 00:01:33,030
Good morning, everyone. I apologize. I have a few technical issues here. Today is December 22, 2022, and this is an open meeting of the Utilities and Transportation Commission. My name is Dave Dana. I'm Chair of the Commission, and I'm joined by my colleagues, Commissioner Milkdum and Commissioner Ann Rendol. Jing Roth, are there any changes to the agenda today? Good morning, Chairman. Can you hear me, okay? Yes, I can. Thank you.

2
00:01:33,030 --> 00:01:37,590
Okay, so good morning, Chair Diner, Commissioner Randall, Commissioner Dumont.

3
00:01:38,250 --> 00:01:38,970
I'm in June wrong.

4
00:01:39,470 --> 00:01:41,390
We have a regulatory service division.

5
00:01:42,030 --> 00:01:45,650
And there are a couple changes to today's agenda.

6
00:01:46,690 --> 00:01:50,470
One is the no-action portion of agenda.

7
00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,920
Item F-26,

8
00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:03,020
UE-22-08, date-8.

9
00:02:03,020 --> 00:02:13,980
an item member, IF-27, UE-22-0889, should be removed from today's agenda.

10
00:02:16,070 --> 00:02:17,830
All right, thank you very much.

11
00:02:18,410 --> 00:02:20,810
And, and I'm pretty big.

12
00:02:21,670 --> 00:02:33,430
There is a random, which is a, a random two for item E-15, is a T-S-22-0908.

13
00:02:41,890 --> 00:02:48,270
The year should be 2023 in the regular gender shows 2022.

14
00:02:49,190 --> 00:02:53,670
If you would like me to read the entire description, I will, but it was just a title.

15
00:02:54,530 --> 00:02:56,470
No, okay. I think that is fine. Thank you.

16
00:02:56,850 --> 00:02:58,570
And that's all. Thank you.

17
00:02:59,050 --> 00:03:01,090
All right. Thank you very much.

18
00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:11,190
Is there anyone on the call today who wishes to speak to an item on the consent agenda or

19
00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:15,890
the no action agenda or would like to have one of those items move to the regular portion

20
00:03:15,890 --> 00:03:17,250
of the agenda for discussion?

21
00:03:20,290 --> 00:03:25,050
I would just like to make a comment if I could about the Driftwood Valley, Sailor Driftwood

22
00:03:25,050 --> 00:03:25,890
Valley water system.

23
00:03:27,310 --> 00:03:28,330
Yes, go ahead.

24
00:03:28,430 --> 00:03:29,210
Can you identify yourself?

25
00:03:29,210 --> 00:03:35,870
Yes, my name is Deanna Taver, and I have served on the board of Driftwood Valley community

26
00:03:35,870 --> 00:03:40,830
and I've worked with Washington Water on the sale of that system for the last year and a half.

27
00:03:41,490 --> 00:03:49,110
I just wanted to comment that our community met with Washington Water folks in September of 2021,

28
00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:56,310
and we voted unanimously and overwhelmingly to sell our water system to Washington Water.

29
00:03:56,310 --> 00:04:01,810
And in December of 2021 we entered into an operation and maintenance agreement with Washington

30
00:04:01,810 --> 00:04:07,370
Water to run our system and operate it until the sale of that system was closed.

31
00:04:07,550 --> 00:04:13,290
We have been overwhelmingly satisfied with their services and with working with them.

32
00:04:13,450 --> 00:04:22,770
And we are really looking forward to finalizing water system because it will provide a stable

33
00:04:23,270 --> 00:04:25,330
water system for our community.

34
00:04:25,330 --> 00:04:27,790
So, I just wanted to mention that.

35
00:04:28,510 --> 00:04:29,150
All right.

36
00:04:29,390 --> 00:04:30,670
Thank you very much, Deanna Taylor.

37
00:04:30,830 --> 00:04:37,550
And that is with regard to item 501 E9 just for the record.

38
00:04:37,750 --> 00:04:39,330
That's UW220859.

39
00:04:40,130 --> 00:04:41,570
So I appreciate your comments.

40
00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:45,170
And that is on the consent agenda for this morning.

41
00:04:46,030 --> 00:04:47,330
So thank you very much.

42
00:04:47,970 --> 00:04:53,610
Is there anyone else who wishes to discuss any item that is on the open meeting or consent agenda?

43
00:04:53,610 --> 00:04:54,270
All

44
00:04:57,540 --> 00:05:01,300
right, hearing nothing, I would entertain a motion on the consent.

45
00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:03,440
Oh, yes, go ahead.

46
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:06,680
Yes, this is Pete Clement.

47
00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:13,620
I live in Gig Harbor and I'm currently a customer of the Stroze Water Company system.

48
00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:21,820
And so I'm interested in, I guess it's called Item Number UW220614,

49
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,300
the acquisition of Stroze by Washington Water.

50
00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:28,100
and I'm just curious about how that's playing out.

51
00:05:28,220 --> 00:05:30,960
I'm new to listening in on these,

52
00:05:31,260 --> 00:05:34,000
although I'm a Land Use Advisory Commissioner

53
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,580
for the Gay Harbor District

54
00:05:36,580 --> 00:05:39,020
that have not called in on this call

55
00:05:39,020 --> 00:05:41,200
or been involved in this process at all.

56
00:05:41,380 --> 00:05:43,700
So I'm just new and interested

57
00:05:43,700 --> 00:05:44,920
in how the process works.

58
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,580
All right, well, thank you very much, Mr. Clements.

59
00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,780
My name, this is with regard to a consent item agenda.

60
00:05:51,780 --> 00:06:04,780
But it is item E4, basically we have the way the process works is a company files and

61
00:06:04,780 --> 00:06:06,380
our staff reviews it.

62
00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,320
They make a recommendation to us at an open meeting like this.

63
00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:17,320
Generally, where something is deemed to be non-controversial, then it goes on a consent agenda, and

64
00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:20,800
this one was placed on the consent agenda, and that's why we ask at the beginning of every

65
00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:25,780
meeting if someone wants to discuss something that we have placed on the consent agenda to make sure

66
00:06:25,780 --> 00:06:32,240
that we can receive public input before we go forward. So this is your opportunity. We have

67
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,140
an application for sale and transfer of the company's assets to Washington water

68
00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,020
and it's on the consent agenda this morning, but if you have thoughts that you want to share with

69
00:06:44,020 --> 00:06:45,880
them with us and we would like to hear them.

70
00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:52,780
Well yes I received a letter from as did I assume all the

71
00:06:52,780 --> 00:06:59,080
most of the other 800 or so subscribers to straws water received the letter

72
00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:05,000
regards to this transfer we've known this is coming for a while our monthly

73
00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:10,640
statements have been issued by Washington water instead of straws. I've been on

74
00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:17,220
the straw system since this house was built and I bought it in 2000 and so the

75
00:07:17,220 --> 00:07:22,920
One, two, three, four, the fifth paragraph makes a statement in the letter that we received

76
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:28,660
that we do not expect your water rates to change immediately as a result of this transaction.

77
00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:34,200
That would be my largest concern at this point in time.

78
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:36,540
Reliability comes number two.

79
00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,020
We've never had a problem.

80
00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,740
I have never had my water system shut down or received any notice of any problem with the

81
00:07:43,740 --> 00:07:49,580
water supply, the water quality of never had any problems with dirty water or anything since

82
00:07:50,340 --> 00:07:57,760
the year 2000 when I came onto the system. I would like to see that continue but as I said my

83
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:04,640
first concern and consideration is the rates and I assume that there would be a similar meeting to

84
00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:12,620
this or another one down the road downstream, no pun intended, with regards to any prospective

85
00:08:12,620 --> 00:08:18,880
rate increases? Yeah, that that is correct. If if the company is going to seek to raise rates they

86
00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:24,440
have to file a rate for a rate increase with the commission at which time you'll be notified

87
00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:31,740
and it will come before us at an open meeting and we would take public comment at that time and

88
00:08:31,740 --> 00:08:37,380
that would all be in the notice. The fact that Washington water is sending in bills right now indicates

89
00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:44,480
that the company is managing the system under contract with Stros as it finalizes its purchase,

90
00:08:44,680 --> 00:08:48,060
but the purchase has to be approved by the commission before it goes forward, and that's what

91
00:08:48,060 --> 00:08:53,780
we're doing this morning. Nothing really changes. Of course, Stros could come in for a rate increase

92
00:08:53,780 --> 00:09:01,020
if it were to continue as the owner. But Washington water as well, but that would be a separate proceeding.

93
00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:04,740
So, what's before us this morning is simply the change of the ownership.

94
00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:15,280
And so, Tiffany Van Meter from our staff is here, and if you have any further questions

95
00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,980
I can engage with her.

96
00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,460
Is there anything we can follow up with?

97
00:09:24,980 --> 00:09:26,120
I know that's fine.

98
00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:30,360
I'm just, like I said, I'm new to this process, so just getting my feet in the water.

99
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:41,940
know. And trying to find out how this process works. We've been very satisfied. I must say

100
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:51,960
since day one a typical winter water bill was $17.75. Typical summer bill and we have three

101
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,800
quarters of an acre would know we'd be no greater than $45 a month.

102
00:09:58,700 --> 00:10:06,420
And we've heard of rates of surrounding areas, surrounding gig harbour properties that

103
00:10:06,420 --> 00:10:12,960
pay significantly more than that, don't quite understand why, so I'll be curious to see

104
00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:18,100
how the process works with regards to our rates, if in fact anything does change.

105
00:10:19,100 --> 00:10:23,140
Yeah, and I can't guarantee that they will not come in for a rate increase, I mean, we're

106
00:10:23,140 --> 00:10:29,760
in a time of inflation and but if they do that we would go through the process just as I described it

107
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:34,840
and you would have an opportunity to weigh in submit comments or testify in front of the commission

108
00:10:35,380 --> 00:10:40,060
at that time. Very good. All right thank you. All right. Well thank you very much.

109
00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:45,040
All right is there anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss a consent item or a no action item?

110
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,120
All right hearing none then I would entertain a motion on the consent agenda.

111
00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:55,300
And I would be happy to offer a motion.

112
00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:00,680
I move that the items on the consent agenda be approved as proposed, and that the secretary

113
00:11:00,680 --> 00:11:05,760
be directed to sign the letter or order, implementing the commission's action as to each

114
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,520
item consistent with this decision.

115
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,360
Mr. Chair, I would second the motion.

116
00:11:11,140 --> 00:11:11,420
All right.

117
00:11:11,580 --> 00:11:12,440
And the motion carries.

118
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:13,060
Thank you.

119
00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:19,380
And thank you, Mr. Clemens and Ms. Taver, for your participation this morning.

120
00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:20,480
I appreciate it very much.

121
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,960
Let's move to item A1, and that's Puget Sound Energy.

122
00:11:30,710 --> 00:11:31,650
Now let's tell us good morning.

123
00:11:32,170 --> 00:11:33,270
Good morning, commissioners.

124
00:11:33,930 --> 00:11:36,690
I'm Alex Tullis, representing regular choice services.

125
00:11:37,250 --> 00:11:46,090
I'm here to address item A01.UG220801, in which PSE is proposing to revise its National

126
00:11:46,090 --> 00:11:52,510
Gas Schedule 137 to increase the monthly per block rate of carbon offsets from $3 to $450.

127
00:11:52,510 --> 00:11:55,530
customer participation in this service is voluntary.

128
00:11:56,530 --> 00:11:58,150
The company's proposed rate increase

129
00:11:58,150 --> 00:12:01,230
or flex the increasing market price for carbon offsets.

130
00:12:01,710 --> 00:12:04,670
Carbon offset market has become increasingly more competitive

131
00:12:04,670 --> 00:12:07,230
and as a result prices for offsets have risen.

132
00:12:08,190 --> 00:12:10,750
The proposed rates would allow PSU to maintain

133
00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:13,950
a reserve balance which would promote long-term rate stability

134
00:12:13,950 --> 00:12:15,710
by providing the company with a balance

135
00:12:15,710 --> 00:12:17,470
to pull from when market prices increase.

136
00:12:18,590 --> 00:12:21,410
The company aims to maintain a six to 12 month reserve balance

137
00:12:21,410 --> 00:12:25,850
which staff accepts as a reasonable target for this filing. However, it is not clear from the

138
00:12:25,850 --> 00:12:31,250
company's analysis that the reserve balance is sized for the price and risk in the carbon offsets

139
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:37,410
market. While staff recommends the commission allow the proposed rates to go into effect, staff also

140
00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:42,550
encourages the company to further evaluate how it can base its program reserves on an analysis

141
00:12:42,550 --> 00:12:47,630
of market risk, which may become more feasible as the voluntary carbon market continues to expand

142
00:12:47,630 --> 00:12:52,450
and mature. Another issue staff looked into is the lack of interest occurring on the reserve

143
00:12:52,450 --> 00:12:57,250
balance. PSC indicated to staff that it does not accrue interest on the reserve balance

144
00:12:57,250 --> 00:13:03,030
because the reserve balance is treated as working capital and reduces the rate base in PSC's general

145
00:13:03,030 --> 00:13:08,750
rate cases. Staff will be able to confirm that the reserve balance is included in working capital

146
00:13:08,750 --> 00:13:15,070
in the current GRC. So for now staff is comfortable allowing PSC to exclude interest from this federal

147
00:13:15,070 --> 00:13:20,250
137 rate calculation. However, staff leaves it would be more appropriate for the interest

148
00:13:20,250 --> 00:13:26,330
benefits remain with schedule 137 customers. Therefore, staff recommends that PSU remove

149
00:13:26,330 --> 00:13:30,310
the reserve balance from working capital in its next great case and then begin accruing

150
00:13:30,310 --> 00:13:34,930
interest on those of balance. Staff reviewed the company's filing and

151
00:13:34,930 --> 00:13:39,750
associated work papers and recommends the commission take no action. They're by allowing

152
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:46,490
I'm Tara Sheets filed in Docket, UG220801 to become effective January 1, 2023 by Operation

153
00:13:46,490 --> 00:13:46,790
of Law.

154
00:13:47,710 --> 00:13:51,790
That concludes my presentation, and I believe a representative from KSC is present and

155
00:13:51,790 --> 00:13:52,630
available for questions.

156
00:13:53,230 --> 00:13:53,450
Thank you.

157
00:13:56,430 --> 00:13:56,810
All right.

158
00:13:57,010 --> 00:13:57,790
Thank you very much.

159
00:13:57,990 --> 00:14:00,630
So let me ask commissioners, do you have any questions for Alex Tellers?

160
00:14:03,540 --> 00:14:03,940
No questions.

161
00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,260
Mr. Chair, Alex is thoroughly briefed on this previously as well.

162
00:14:07,540 --> 00:14:08,080
No questions here.

163
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:08,400
Thank you.

164
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,140
And I also have no questions, but I'm happy to hear from the company if they have something

165
00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:20,220
there was to say. All right. So Alex, I do have one question for you. It has to do with the

166
00:14:20,220 --> 00:14:28,320
timelines. I mean, we were encouraging the company to further evaluate the program.

167
00:14:28,780 --> 00:14:33,660
And that's basically we're going to want to see how the voluntary carbon market

168
00:14:33,660 --> 00:14:40,060
expands and matures. What kind of timeline do you see? Or this? How soon? I mean,

169
00:14:40,060 --> 00:14:45,080
How long is it going to take for us to have that kind of a further analysis or is it iterative and ongoing?

170
00:14:46,420 --> 00:14:54,480
The company indicated that based on their projected expenses for the program they would have to likely come in for another rate increase.

171
00:14:54,780 --> 00:14:59,840
I believe in two years or after two years.

172
00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:28,200
So, I would expect by then they indicated there's some upcoming resources that are going to be available to them in the next year or so. So, I'd expect by then to see a little bit more analysis. All right. All right. Thank you very much. And I see we have some company representatives on the line. Veronica Martin and Leslie Myers from PSC. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning commissioners. My name is Veronica Martin.

173
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,980
I'm a senior tariff analyst with Fugus on Energy.

174
00:15:31,940 --> 00:15:35,260
Fugus does want to take the opportunity to thank both Alex,

175
00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,580
Celiz, and Chris McGuire for all of their time

176
00:15:38,580 --> 00:15:40,260
and their thoughtful review and recommendations

177
00:15:40,260 --> 00:15:41,000
with the styling.

178
00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,560
We greatly appreciate their guidance.

179
00:15:43,540 --> 00:15:46,500
We don't have anything specific further to add at this time,

180
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:48,480
but I am available for any questions.

181
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,200
All right, thank you.

182
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,280
Commissioners, do you have any questions for the company?

183
00:15:55,950 --> 00:15:57,190
No questions here, thank you, Mr. Chair.

184
00:15:57,190 --> 00:16:05,440
Okay, so Veronica Martin, this is a rather sizable increase.

185
00:16:05,660 --> 00:16:13,980
We're going from another, we're having a $1.50 increase here, and I understand that

186
00:16:13,980 --> 00:16:16,480
last year we reduced the amount.

187
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:19,820
Is this size properly in your mind?

188
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,900
Are you asking for just what you need and not more than what you need here?

189
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:31,680
I would say that, as far as we can tell, yes. When we reduced the rate in 2020, of course,

190
00:16:31,900 --> 00:16:37,400
that was right before COVID and a lot of things have changed both in pricing in general and in

191
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:44,820
the market since that happened. But with right-sizing the pricing now to hold about six to 12 months

192
00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:49,120
of program reserves, we do believe that this will offer a lot more price stability for our customers.

193
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:54,180
Our goal is to not have the rate fluctuate year-to-year or anything like that.

194
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,080
We would like to offer that stability so that customers can feel comfortable coming in

195
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,180
and purchasing a voluntary service knowing that they're not going to see wild fluctuations

196
00:17:02,180 --> 00:17:03,960
in their bill from year-to-year.

197
00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:10,120
Do you expect that you will have a decrease in participation as a result of this?

198
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,380
It's difficult to say for sure.

199
00:17:13,380 --> 00:17:18,940
However, we conducted a customer survey in August prior to making this proposed increase

200
00:17:18,940 --> 00:17:21,280
and we're proposing to make this increase.

201
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:27,000
And while the majority of the comments that we received back indicated that customers

202
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:32,580
did value the service itself and the benefits of the service over the price of the service,

203
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:37,660
we also know that the commission received some comments that indicated frustration or disappointment

204
00:17:37,660 --> 00:17:38,560
in the rate increase.

205
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:51,880
So it is possible that we'll see some fluctuations in participation, but we're also hoping that with the state highlighting its carbon reduction goals, the more customers will find a benefit in the service and begins subscribing.

206
00:17:53,200 --> 00:18:00,700
All right, thank you very much. I have no further questions. Let me ask a question. Do you have any other questions for the company?

207
00:18:02,060 --> 00:18:06,320
Mr. Chair, if I'm right, I just don't really understand but bearing on the decision

208
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:10,860
for just the curiosity, the forest, these cofuses come primarily from forest

209
00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:15,980
offices. Just wondering what is that agreement by forest owners of the

210
00:18:15,980 --> 00:18:21,520
tree's not to cut those trees or what's the mechanism? What does that look like?

211
00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:28,040
So essentially forest tree offsets and this might be too much background.

212
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,020
So I apologize if this is coming in the weeds.

213
00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,140
And again, now my turn to apologize, no fun intended.

214
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,080
Forestry offsets remove carbon.

215
00:18:36,580 --> 00:18:38,900
So when trees grow, they pull carbon from the air

216
00:18:38,900 --> 00:18:41,440
and they turn it into limbs, trunk, fruit, sleeves.

217
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:43,840
And in doing so, they sequester carbon,

218
00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:45,500
which means that they hold the carbon

219
00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:48,100
so instead of letting it be in the air.

220
00:18:48,420 --> 00:18:50,900
So as long as the tree is growing, it's sequestering.

221
00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:53,640
And the longer it grows, the more carbon it removes and holds.

222
00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:56,900
And so for every metric tons sequestered,

223
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:59,280
one carpet offset is quote unquote generated.

224
00:19:00,460 --> 00:19:01,760
And there are three different ways to generate

225
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,000
a forestry offset, to create or re-establish a forest

226
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,900
to new plantings, to protect a forest,

227
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:10,520
like avoid a real threat, like an agricultural conversion,

228
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,680
or let a working forest grow longer

229
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:15,960
by changing business practices.

230
00:19:18,060 --> 00:19:20,720
And most of our offsets come from the Tsunon

231
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,360
profits that are working against climate change,

232
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:24,700
who are the Bonneville Environmental Foundation

233
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:25,880
and the climate trust.

234
00:19:27,260 --> 00:19:28,640
Great. That wasn't too much.

235
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:30,100
That was just perfectly what I wanted to.

236
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,340
Thank you very much. Thank you.

237
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:31,620
You're welcome.

238
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,940
All right. Thank you very much.

239
00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:42,920
Let me ask if there was anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss this item.

240
00:19:47,970 --> 00:19:48,670
All right. Hearing nothing.

241
00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:50,430
This is a no-action item.

242
00:19:50,550 --> 00:19:52,270
We do not have to have a motion on this,

243
00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:53,970
but commissioners, can I get your sense?

244
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:57,610
Are you okay with letting these

245
00:19:58,290 --> 00:20:00,710
tariff sheets become effective by operation of law.

246
00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:02,810
Yes.

247
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:05,230
And yes, as well. Thank you.

248
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:07,610
Okay. So wait as unanimous.

249
00:20:07,870 --> 00:20:09,210
We will take no action on this.

250
00:20:09,370 --> 00:20:11,170
And the tariff will go into effect by operation of law.

251
00:20:11,290 --> 00:20:11,790
Thank you all.

252
00:20:12,390 --> 00:20:15,430
And let's move on now to item B1, Harold Lumay.

253
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:19,920
Jacqueline Simmons, good morning.

254
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,660
Good morning, commissioners.

255
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,560
So Jacqueline Simmons from regulatory service presenting item B01.

256
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,500
one, docket TG-2-2-2-0-8-2-3,

257
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:33,220
for Harold Lemay enterprises doing businesses

258
00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:34,800
here's counting refuse.

259
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,320
On November 7th, 2022, Lemay filed

260
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,060
Terra-free vision increase, which generate approximately

261
00:20:41,060 --> 00:20:44,200
18,500 an additional annual revenue,

262
00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,440
and filed for an exemption to WACC for 80-075-2-0

263
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,100
subsection for for work favors.

264
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,180
The company's service approximately 150,000 customers.

265
00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:00,840
On October 3rd, 2022, we made a notified staff that there was an error in calculation

266
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:09,300
of rates, which became effective on October 1st, 2022, in Docket, TG, 22, 0548, and requested

267
00:21:09,300 --> 00:21:12,140
that staff rely on the work papers, approved in that case.

268
00:21:13,300 --> 00:21:19,020
Staff reviewed the final workbook, approved from Docket, TG, 22, 0548, and found that the

269
00:21:19,020 --> 00:21:19,880
company was correct.

270
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,440
the rates calculated in the rate case were done by using the face rate from the inflated

271
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:32,240
COVID recovery rate agreed upon in Docket TG 210-437 instead of using the non-COVID recovery

272
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:39,560
rates. In September of 2021, the Commission approved Docket TG 210-437, which establish

273
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:45,520
rates for recovery of COVID expenses during the state of emergency. The Commission allowed

274
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:50,100
two sets of rates for the company. One said that became effective September 1st, 2021,

275
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:58,200
term COVID rates set to expire in August 31st, 2023. And one term said non-COVID rates that

276
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:05,600
would become effective once the COVID rate is fired. In Docket, TG220, 548 staff in the company

277
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,000
agreed to include and amortize over a three-year period. The remaining allowed COVID

278
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,900
a COVID expense that had not yet been recovered in rates.

279
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,320
The company has now one set of rates

280
00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,380
with COVID recovery built in.

281
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,760
The company also found that the rates

282
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:24,000
were put that were put into the tariffs

283
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,560
that became effective October 1st, 2022

284
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:28,100
were the non-COVID rates

285
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:30,280
but increased by the percentage that the staff

286
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,780
calculated with inflated COVID rates.

287
00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:35,800
And that the rates effective October 1st, 2022

288
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,840
would not generate the company's allowed revenue requirement.

289
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,620
to correct both errors staff changed the calculation by using the base rate from the non-COVID

290
00:22:43,620 --> 00:22:49,380
rates instead of the COVID recovery rates and recalculated the revenue requirement to include

291
00:22:49,380 --> 00:22:54,020
the new expense for customer notice to inform customers of the errors and rate change.

292
00:22:54,660 --> 00:23:01,620
The new calculated rates for Pierce County, a customer using a 35-gallon weekly with recycling is

293
00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:06,740
going from $20.42 to $20.59, a 17-cent increase.

294
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,320
I customer using one yard weekly is going from $30.67

295
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,880
to $33.94, a 27-cent increase.

296
00:23:15,620 --> 00:23:19,140
And for JBLM, a customer using a 65-gallon with recycling

297
00:23:19,140 --> 00:23:25,600
is going from $23.80 to $23.99, a 19-cent increase.

298
00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:28,940
And a customer using a 95-gallon with recycling

299
00:23:28,940 --> 00:23:38,180
is going from $31.17 to $31.42, a 25-cent increase. Staff recommends issuing an order granting

300
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:45,800
the request for exemption from WAC 480-07520 subsection 4 and allow the tariff pages filed by

301
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:52,640
Herala Media Enterprise's Inc. doing business as Pierce County Refuse on November 7, 2022,

302
00:23:58,660 --> 00:23:58,660
and

303
00:23:58,660 --> 00:24:02,060
operation of law. I'm available for questions and the company and the

304
00:24:02,060 --> 00:24:06,860
representatives are on the line. Thank you. Thank you. Commissioners, do you

305
00:24:06,860 --> 00:24:11,920
have any questions for Jacqueline Simmons? No questions. Thank you. I have no

306
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:17,140
questions. I was thoroughly pretty. Thank you, John. As was I just want to clarify

307
00:24:17,140 --> 00:24:22,880
though that the company did send a notice out with regard to this change and

308
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,360
that, okay, so customers were notified.

309
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:31,920
It's all the questions I have.

310
00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:34,020
Let me ask if the company is on the line

311
00:24:34,020 --> 00:24:37,500
if they wish to make any additional statement.

312
00:24:38,020 --> 00:24:38,520
Lindsay Walden?

313
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,660
Yes, that is me.

314
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,940
I am a representative with the company.

315
00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:45,140
I'm also joined with Joe Wanderlick from the company.

316
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,400
We would just like to thank staff for all of their hard work

317
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,060
and help through this process as well as the commission's time

318
00:24:51,460 --> 00:24:52,520
in reviewing this item.

319
00:24:52,520 --> 00:25:00,820
But we have no further comments all right. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else on the call who wishes to discuss this matter right

320
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:06,780
hearing nothing?

321
00:25:07,780 --> 00:25:09,800
This is an item that

322
00:25:10,980 --> 00:25:19,920
Corrects an error the company does need to meet its revenue requirement or have an opportunity to meet its revenue requirement and so we're correcting this error

323
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:27,540
However, it will have an impact on bills, but it's in the area of around 17 cents for most customers.

324
00:25:29,740 --> 00:25:41,800
And it's something I think that needs to be directed, so I would support, I would support a motion, but if any of my colleagues disagree, this is the time to share your thoughts.

325
00:25:43,740 --> 00:25:51,420
I do agree with the staff's recommendation here, and I'm happy to make a motion, but wait for my colleague to weigh in.

326
00:25:52,260 --> 00:25:57,400
Yes, I concur with the staff's recommendation, and thank you, Jacqueline, for the thorough briefing on this.

327
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,240
All right. Let's proceed with the motion.

328
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:10,580
Okay. I move that in docket TG 220823 that the commission issue an order granting of

329
00:26:10,580 --> 00:26:19,000
press for exemption from WACC 480-075-20 sub 4 and allow the tariff pages filed by Harold

330
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:25,700
LeMay enterprises incorporated doing business as Pierce County refuse on November 7, 2022

331
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:30,060
to become effective January 1st, 2023 by Operation of Law.

332
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,320
And I would second the motion, Mr. Chair.

333
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,600
All right, thank you, and the motion carries.

334
00:26:37,020 --> 00:26:38,420
All right, appreciate it.

335
00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:42,520
Let's move to item B2, and this is Clutter Inc.

336
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:44,260
Mike Young.

337
00:26:44,620 --> 00:26:44,900
Good morning.

338
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,000
Good morning, commissioners.

339
00:26:47,420 --> 00:26:52,480
I'm Mike Young from Regulatory Services, presenting item B2, which is a motion by Clutter Inc.

340
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,940
to extend the waivers from Terra-15C that were granted in order one of this

341
00:26:56,940 --> 00:27:02,940
docket and extended in order two to December 31st, 2022. Clutter's motion

342
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:07,620
would extend the waivers until March 31st, 2023 or until staff completes its

343
00:27:07,620 --> 00:27:12,660
review of Terra-15C, whichever is earlier. Along with the extension in order two that

344
00:27:12,660 --> 00:27:16,960
was issued in April 28th of this year, the Washington Movers Conference filed a

345
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:23,940
petition for changes to tariff 15c in docket TV210812, which the commission combined with

346
00:27:23,940 --> 00:27:28,680
this docket. Staff is still reviewing tariff 15c and the data filed by the Washington

347
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:34,100
Movers Conference and is confident it will complete its review before March 31st. Therefore,

348
00:27:34,380 --> 00:27:37,760
staff recommends the commission grant the motion from clutter and extend the waivers from

349
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:43,900
tariff 15c previously granted until March 31st, 2023 or until staff completes its review

350
00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:47,600
and filed revives, tariff pages and tariff 15C,

351
00:27:48,140 --> 00:27:50,840
or until new rules are completed, whichever occurs sooner.

352
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:52,820
I'm available for questions.

353
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,200
I believe there is a representative from the company on the line,

354
00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:57,160
and also from the Washington Movers Conference.

355
00:27:58,700 --> 00:27:59,540
All right. Thank you.

356
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,300
Commissioner, do you have any questions for Mike Yow?

357
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,140
Yes. Thank you, Chair DeHunter.

358
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,880
So, like I appreciate the information.

359
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,100
So you're still going through the data that you have now received

360
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:19,860
from the Movers Conference and as you can tell, given by the number of solid waste and water

361
00:28:19,860 --> 00:28:26,100
items on this agenda, the staff has been pretty busy over the last few months, as I imagine.

362
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:29,980
And so, but you don't anticipate this review taking much longer.

363
00:28:30,860 --> 00:28:34,780
That's correct, yes. We were a little bit delayed due to staffing issues, but again,

364
00:28:34,900 --> 00:28:36,840
we're confident we'll complete this before the end of March.

365
00:28:37,780 --> 00:28:38,540
Okay, thank you.

366
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,160
And I've thoroughly briefed by Mike previously, Mr. Chair, no questions from me.

367
00:28:44,220 --> 00:28:44,480
Thank you.

368
00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:45,500
All right.

369
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:46,100
Thank you.

370
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:53,800
So Mike, just the original waiver was until May 1st, that was extended till December 31st,

371
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:58,240
which is coming up, and basically just need a little more time.

372
00:28:59,740 --> 00:29:00,480
That's correct.

373
00:29:00,660 --> 00:29:05,900
We have some language, rule language to review, and then also the new compiled data for

374
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:11,820
right calculations. All right. Thank you very much.

375
00:29:14,540 --> 00:29:17,340
Let's I have no further questions for you

376
00:29:17,340 --> 00:29:20,720
right now, Mike Young. Let's turn to James Tutton.

377
00:29:25,390 --> 00:29:26,670
Mr. Tutton, you're on mute.

378
00:29:33,300 --> 00:29:33,880
Yes, good morning

379
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:39,980
Chairman Danner and commissioners Randall and Dumont. Thank you for the opportunity to provide comments

380
00:29:39,980 --> 00:29:44,220
relative to cluttering's petition to extend the waivers from House of

381
00:29:44,220 --> 00:29:50,440
good tariff number 15c and certain provisions of WAC 485 granted in order to

382
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:59,980
of this docket, TV 210535 until March 30th, 2023. I've got some comments.

383
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:07,600
Once I'm going to be as common collected and as factual as I can be, and I say that with a smile in my voice.

384
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:29,780
WAC 485, the House of Good Carriers, states in paragraph 485, 010, the purpose and application. It states these rules implement the policies of RCW 81.80.020 as they apply the House of Good Carriers.

385
00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:35,800
The rules establish standards for public safety, fair competitive practices just in reasonable

386
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:42,680
charges, nondiscriminatory application of rates, adequate and dependable service, and

387
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:48,960
consumer protection as well as compliance with statuettes, rules, and commission orders.

388
00:30:49,900 --> 00:30:54,580
This chapter applies to all interest rate household good carriers.

389
00:30:54,580 --> 00:31:00,760
The Washington Movers Conference strongly opposes this petition request.

390
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:11,220
This petition was issued started back in July 2nd, 2021, when cluttering filed for exemptions

391
00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:15,860
from the UTC's Interstate House of Good Terror 15C.

392
00:31:17,270 --> 00:31:25,810
pluttering properly applied for, and received a provisional interest rate and also good operating authority,

393
00:31:27,390 --> 00:31:35,710
THG67494, and later permanent also good operating authority, HG67494, dropping the T temporary.

394
00:31:36,450 --> 00:31:45,290
By meeting all the requirements of WAC 485305 permanent authority, including satisfactorily completing a

395
00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:47,510
a provisional period of not less than six months,

396
00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:49,410
and not more than 18 months,

397
00:31:50,150 --> 00:31:53,110
from the date the provisional permit was issued.

398
00:31:54,450 --> 00:31:57,410
It is believed by the Washington Movers Conference

399
00:31:58,150 --> 00:32:02,430
that the Collitter Inc. petition was filed in response

400
00:32:02,430 --> 00:32:06,430
to a UTC investigation report of Collitter Inc.

401
00:32:07,450 --> 00:32:12,190
TV 200-432 dated February 2021.

402
00:32:12,990 --> 00:32:23,210
This investigation found violations of failing to charge the minimum tariff rate as required by tariff number 15c item 230 parent six.

403
00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:29,870
Failing to charge for the minimum hours as required by tariff number 15c item 230 parent seven.

404
00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:41,110
Failing to provide properly completed uniform household bills of waiting in accordance with WAC 480 15 s 710 and tariff number 15c item 95.

405
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:47,710
Failing to completely and accurately complete estimated cost for services forms in accordance

406
00:32:47,710 --> 00:32:54,530
with WACC 480-15-630, and tariff number 15c item 85.

407
00:32:55,570 --> 00:33:04,920
Failing to properly understand the intent and guidelines of tariff number 15c item 102,

408
00:33:05,740 --> 00:33:11,040
which applies to small goods, transportation, and storage moves.

409
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:17,840
Now let's all parties with an interest in this in this petitions submitted by

410
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:25,180
clutter ink come to a simple agreement that commercial permanent storage of

411
00:33:25,740 --> 00:33:33,520
household goods in Washington state is not regulated. Cluttering is primarily a

412
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,920
commercial storage provider as evidenced by their website but does have the

413
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:45,440
opportunity through their household good operating authority, HG67494, to provide moving

414
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,720
services within Washington State for consumers.

415
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:54,260
Approximately 320 properly regulated household

416
00:33:54,260 --> 00:34:00,840
good carriers listed on the UTC website holding either a UTC provisional or permanent household

417
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:07,480
good operating authority can in their primary business either providing interstate household

418
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,840
also good movement services, provide storage services,

419
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:12,840
either storage and transit, 90 days or less,

420
00:34:13,620 --> 00:34:17,420
permanent storage for periods of 91 days or longer,

421
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,000
or small goods, transportation and storage

422
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,340
at the customer's request in accordance

423
00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:28,460
with WACC 480, 15, and the UTC Interstate House

424
00:34:28,460 --> 00:34:30,740
of Good Terrace number 15C.

425
00:34:31,740 --> 00:34:35,100
The only commonality between clutter ink

426
00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:41,900
and interest rate regulated household good carriers is the transportation of

427
00:34:41,900 --> 00:34:45,460
household goods over the roads of Washington State.

428
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:52,260
Clutter Inc. in their petition is asking the UTC to change to

429
00:34:53,460 --> 00:35:02,120
allow clutter to a bill one or more of the following charges in addition to their

430
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:11,560
unregulated monthly storage fee, one, a flat fee for transportation, two, an hourly fee for

431
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:19,120
labor based on the storage plan, and three, a flat rate per item. Again, they're asking these

432
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:26,880
in addition to their unregulated monthly storage fee. To use 30 days to define permanent storage,

433
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:34,400
as clutter ink is requesting instead of 91 or more days to build customers in

434
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:41,040
actual time when hourly rate supply instead of 15-minute increments.

435
00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:46,640
Clutter ink claims their software allows for actual job time to be

436
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,140
billed.

437
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:54,040
They want the ability to charge no more than the maximum rate in

438
00:35:54,040 --> 00:36:01,680
in tariff number 15c item 230, but not have a minimum rate band.

439
00:36:03,740 --> 00:36:09,220
They want an exemption to the minimum charge of four hours for moving services performed

440
00:36:09,220 --> 00:36:17,000
before 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m. and moving services performed on Saturdays, Sundays or state-recognized

441
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,260
holidays for work involving storage.

442
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:28,960
Please note, this work outside of regular hours is only performed when requested by the

443
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:29,480
consumer.

444
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,900
They want the clutter wants to use the Commission's standard bill of lading for small goods

445
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:45,540
transportation and services found in item 102 of the tariff and ask the Commission to begin

446
00:36:45,540 --> 00:36:53,280
a process of revising the interest rate, household good tariff 15c, so language can be updated

447
00:36:53,280 --> 00:37:01,200
to add flexibility needed, so an exemption would no longer be necessary.

448
00:37:03,730 --> 00:37:11,670
The WMC strongly believes there is no need to make changes to the current UTC published,

449
00:37:11,670 --> 00:37:17,730
Household Good Terrorist Number 15C to accommodate cluttering for the following reasons.

450
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:24,890
Household Good Terror 15C is adequate and compliant with rules, rates, and charges

451
00:37:24,890 --> 00:37:31,170
to meet the needs of the consumer requesting interest rate Household Good moving services.

452
00:37:32,590 --> 00:37:39,030
The rates and charges contained in the UTC's published Household Good Terrorist Number 15C

453
00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:48,810
have been duly authenticated by UTC staff with input from users to be fair for consumers and

454
00:37:48,810 --> 00:37:56,750
compensatory for interest rate household good carriers. Charging below the minimum rate ban,

455
00:37:56,810 --> 00:38:04,210
for example, would allow for non-compensatory rates and the possibility of simply giving service

456
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:16,380
As commercial storage rates are not regulated in Washington State except for storage and transit rates contained in the UTC House of Good Terror 15C,

457
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:34,940
when such services requested by the consumer, it would be in the best interest for commercial storage provider to want low regulated rates for the regulated transportation services needed in states that regulate commercial or

458
00:38:34,940 --> 00:38:37,660
to regulate household good, interstate household good moving,

459
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:39,980
to bring the consumers household goods

460
00:38:39,980 --> 00:38:42,560
into the commercial storage facility.

461
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:45,140
Please note commission staff,

462
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,360
because commercial storage rates

463
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,140
are not regulated in Washington state,

464
00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:52,040
the commercial storage provider can charge

465
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,180
whatever rate the market will bear for storage,

466
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:58,480
to meet their business needs.

467
00:38:59,540 --> 00:39:02,640
Interstate household good carriers do not have

468
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:07,160
that flexibility, or that luxury.

469
00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:12,370
It is the Washington Movers Conference believe,

470
00:39:12,670 --> 00:39:16,910
belief that cluttering is asking for these

471
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:20,390
household good terror 15C changes due to violations

472
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:24,070
identified in the UTC investigated report

473
00:39:24,070 --> 00:39:28,830
of cluttering solely to meet their business model,

474
00:39:29,330 --> 00:39:33,290
rather than change procedures and abide by the rules

475
00:39:33,290 --> 00:39:38,650
and rates established in the Interstate House of Good Terror, 15C, and rules contained within

476
00:39:38,650 --> 00:39:52,750
WAC-480-15. This docket TV-210-535 needs to be closed today. The exemptions curtailed and

477
00:39:52,750 --> 00:40:00,030
not extended for yet another three months. Regulated Interstate House of Good Carriers have looked

478
00:40:00,030 --> 00:40:06,830
on long enough, as one entity has been able to provide non-compensatory service through

479
00:40:06,830 --> 00:40:12,330
ridiculous and unneeded exemptions to House of good terror, number 15C.

480
00:40:12,990 --> 00:40:14,450
That concludes my comments.

481
00:40:14,870 --> 00:40:15,930
I thank you for your attention.

482
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:18,580
All right.

483
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:19,680
Thank you, Mr. Tatton.

484
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:22,040
Commissioner, do you have any questions for James Tatton?

485
00:40:24,130 --> 00:40:25,050
No questions.

486
00:40:25,210 --> 00:40:26,090
I appreciate your comments.

487
00:40:26,770 --> 00:40:27,050
Okay.

488
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:28,030
No questions.

489
00:40:28,030 --> 00:40:33,730
Just a quick point of inquiry, the decision we are making today is just relates to extension

490
00:40:33,730 --> 00:40:41,370
of the waivers, not the substantive question of whether the Chair of 15C will be modified.

491
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:42,590
Is that correct, Mr. Chair?

492
00:40:43,150 --> 00:40:44,190
Yes, that is correct.

493
00:40:44,390 --> 00:40:46,490
This is a question further extension.

494
00:40:47,010 --> 00:40:47,270
Thank you.

495
00:40:48,370 --> 00:40:48,570
All right.

496
00:40:50,510 --> 00:40:54,290
Mr. Tutton, I don't have any questions for you either, but I'd ask you to hold on because

497
00:40:54,290 --> 00:40:56,170
because I think we're going to begin a discussion.

498
00:40:56,890 --> 00:40:58,070
Are we gonna hear from the company?

499
00:40:58,310 --> 00:40:59,490
We're gonna hear from Larry Nelson

500
00:40:59,490 --> 00:41:04,590
and then we will engage a little further.

501
00:41:05,150 --> 00:41:06,970
Certainly, I'm always available.

502
00:41:07,690 --> 00:41:08,470
All right, thank you.

503
00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:10,150
Let's go next to Larry Nelson.

504
00:41:10,770 --> 00:41:11,310
Good morning.

505
00:41:12,030 --> 00:41:14,450
Good morning, Larry Nelson from handsome brothers

506
00:41:14,450 --> 00:41:15,410
moving in storage.

507
00:41:15,810 --> 00:41:17,350
I'm also the current president

508
00:41:17,350 --> 00:41:19,170
of the Washington Movers Conference.

509
00:41:19,930 --> 00:41:22,330
And so I'd just like to make sure

510
00:41:22,330 --> 00:41:32,690
that everybody kind of realizes that you have over 300 other movers in the state that can do

511
00:41:32,690 --> 00:41:40,030
these services. We've been doing it for years legally by the tariff and then you have a depocketed

512
00:41:40,030 --> 00:41:51,350
company coming in. It was discovered in 2019 in one month, creative time. They had over 390

513
00:41:54,370 --> 00:41:58,670
violations where you probably could, I don't know,

514
00:41:58,810 --> 00:42:05,470
audit every other mover in the state for that month and not have that many violations combined.

515
00:42:06,190 --> 00:42:12,370
So they know the rules. They basically in our opinion, you know, and I'm just a simple mover,

516
00:42:12,370 --> 00:42:16,790
but thumb their nose at the rules and try and reinvent the tariff.

517
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:19,690
And so if they're going to reinvent the tariff.

518
00:42:19,690 --> 00:42:26,650
But I want to know if there's simplification where now it's like half a page to explain

519
00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:28,250
how it works.

520
00:42:28,730 --> 00:42:35,790
Their limited warranty has three pages, which is over 1,300 words.

521
00:42:36,390 --> 00:42:44,570
The privacy policy is 10 pages, which is 3,892 words, and their terms of views is 18 pages,

522
00:42:44,570 --> 00:42:55,850
which is 7,549 words so a consumer would need to read 12,746 words to figure out their

523
00:42:55,850 --> 00:43:02,970
simple way of helping the consumer figure out what their services are when now the tariff

524
00:43:02,970 --> 00:43:10,010
is what a half a page. So a consumer can read a half a page and know what every other mover

525
00:43:10,010 --> 00:43:20,190
in the state is going to apply to their services needed, but for some reason, clutter needs thousands

526
00:43:20,190 --> 00:43:26,010
of words to explain just exactly how they're going to take care of the consumer. And so in that

527
00:43:26,010 --> 00:43:33,550
privacy, it explains how their privacy, it's not the consumer's privacy, it's how they're going

528
00:43:33,550 --> 00:43:39,550
to sell it to everybody and their brother. If you read that, they're going to track everything

529
00:43:39,550 --> 00:43:45,830
that happens with that consumer and then can sell it to anybody that wants it, that they can

530
00:43:45,830 --> 00:43:54,130
sell it to. And in the terms of the use, besides all the other things which you're too many to mention,

531
00:43:54,830 --> 00:44:00,470
one of them that really sticks out is, if their business model fails, they can dispose of everything

532
00:44:00,470 --> 00:44:06,010
and storage. Oh, they'll try and find the customer, but there's nothing in there that will

533
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:12,350
penalize them if they don't. So, they'll just dispose of everything. So, if you're looking

534
00:44:12,350 --> 00:44:19,590
to protect the consumer, I'd suggest that so many takes the time to read all that and I still have

535
00:44:19,590 --> 00:44:28,070
not found anything in there that applies to directs anybody towards the UTC as far as any type of rules.

536
00:44:30,270 --> 00:44:39,610
So, I don't know, again, it's very frustrating that, I guess, part of it is just, since

537
00:44:39,610 --> 00:44:44,590
we're a mover, we have to apply for any little increase that we need, even though inflation

538
00:44:44,590 --> 00:44:52,030
is going crazy and our price of fuel is doubled and that sort of thing, so your own people,

539
00:44:52,030 --> 00:44:54,310
Well, hey, it was pretty, you know, we're not,

540
00:44:54,530 --> 00:44:58,330
we don't have a count on staff and, you know,

541
00:44:58,810 --> 00:44:59,970
people that specialize in...

542
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:28,540
As in this, Jim does a great job of pointing out these things. But, you know, as far as pointing down to every nickel that we need, but your own staff said that we needed 12.1%. Okay, so we're still waiting. Do we get to 12.1% or do we have to wait months to figure out that your own people said that, you know, we should get 12.1. Well, in the meantime, that was back in June, I think.

543
00:45:28,540 --> 00:45:36,780
So, in the meantime, everything's gone up like 8%, so instead of back in when the tariff

544
00:45:36,780 --> 00:45:43,160
was revised three years ago, instead of getting the next year, you know, it went up 4%

545
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:47,280
or, you know, the next year after that, it would be 3 points something or whatever.

546
00:45:47,660 --> 00:45:55,440
We have to wait two and a half years, and now it's three years since last, and then we

547
00:45:55,440 --> 00:46:00,200
still don't know if we have any increases. Did anybody's wages go up? Did anybody read the

548
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:05,420
paper that, you know, everybody and their brothers on strike for more money, you know, it's

549
00:46:05,420 --> 00:46:11,980
worth competing with every other type of business to get the same driver, you know, and that's

550
00:46:11,980 --> 00:46:20,780
sort of thing. No matter what it is, bus drivers say you go on TV, $5,000 bonus adds on TV to get a bus

551
00:46:20,780 --> 00:46:25,540
Well, you don't see any movers advertising because we can't afford to do that.

552
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:29,780
We can't, we don't even know if we can give them a raise because we don't know if we got a raise.

553
00:46:30,420 --> 00:46:36,700
So it would be kind of nice to just put a halt to it, say that, okay, you agree with your own people.

554
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,860
We should get to 12.1% right now and be done with it.

555
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:50,260
And then we'll turn around and file right now that we need another four or five percent because it's going to take another year or so to try and get that when we should have had it.

556
00:46:50,260 --> 00:46:56,900
like six months ago, you know, I've been in this business probably way too long. My family

557
00:46:56,900 --> 00:47:05,040
started in 1890. I've been in it 52 years and I think this is the most frustrated I've

558
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:11,660
ever been. So maybe it's, you know, maybe I'm just getting too old or something, but it

559
00:47:11,660 --> 00:47:17,420
is pretty frustrating and I just hope that so many cakes of time to really see, you know,

560
00:47:17,420 --> 00:47:23,320
our needs of getting increases on a regular basis without us having to go through a huge process.

561
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:34,840
And then on the other hand, looking at a company that has a huge amount of deep pockets coming

562
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:40,880
in and trying to change things to their advantage, which no other mover in the state could even

563
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:46,700
afford to do. So I appreciate your time and I'm sure you'll make the proper decision.

564
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,300
All right, thank you very much, Larry Nelson. I appreciate the

565
00:47:52,300 --> 00:47:55,600
commissioners. Do you have any questions for Larry Nelson?

566
00:47:56,620 --> 00:48:01,340
No questions. Thank you, Mr. Nelson, for your testimony. No questions for me, I didn't think.

567
00:48:01,860 --> 00:48:05,720
All right, let me turn to Chad Stokes.

568
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:11,480
Good morning, Chair Danner.

569
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:16,420
My name is Chad Stokes, I represent Clutter.

570
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,100
I think we've gone well beyond the severative matter addressed in Clutter's motion.

571
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:35,320
Clutter is only asking for an extension of the exemptions that was previously granted for compliance with Terra 15C for moose and involved unregulated storage services for traditional household good moves.

572
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,740
This clutter complies with Terra 15C.

573
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:42,860
The Washington staff has started a rule-making process where they asked for comments.

574
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:48,940
Washington members conference has been part of that, as Hanson brothers.

575
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,680
In fact, part of the reason that the rule-making process is not completed is Washington members

576
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:59,620
conference asked for an extension of time to respond to the staff inquiry.

577
00:48:59,620 --> 00:49:07,520
We think that the tariff 15C should be updated, we think that that would be in the public interest.

578
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:15,300
But again, that's for the only exemption we're asking for are moves that involve unregulated storage services.

579
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,920
So for traditional household goods moves, they cluttered complies with tariff 15C.

580
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,840
I won't argue the motion again. Everything's in the motion, but I'm happy to answer questions.

581
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:33,540
There are a couple comments about a complaint proceeding brought

582
00:49:33,540 --> 00:49:36,900
against Collette years ago that that matter has been resolved.

583
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:41,860
It's been resolved a long time ago and they corrected their actions since then.

584
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,300
So I don't think that's proper for for this morning.

585
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,380
But I'm happy to answer any questions with that.

586
00:49:48,620 --> 00:49:51,320
So all right.

587
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:51,960
Thank you.

588
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:54,020
Commissioners, do you have any questions for chance folks?

589
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,560
No, no questions.

590
00:49:56,780 --> 00:49:57,520
Thank you.

591
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:07,540
No question, I do. There were three things that Larry Hansen raised. One was privacy issues that

592
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:14,020
the company, the thing about an extension is obviously with the extension you continue to

593
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:22,880
operate as we get these matters resolved. There is an issue of privacy and what are you doing

594
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,580
selling private information.

595
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:28,560
Can you speak to that?

596
00:50:29,980 --> 00:50:34,740
I'm not aware the clerk sells private information. I'm not sure what is referring to.

597
00:50:35,660 --> 00:50:42,320
I mean, I think he was referring to policies that they have that relate to unregulated

598
00:50:42,860 --> 00:50:49,500
services. And I'm not, I haven't reviewed a privacy policy for them, so.

599
00:50:51,360 --> 00:51:01,860
Okay. Then there was another issue that if there were some circumstances in which you could sell

600
00:51:01,860 --> 00:51:06,800
everything in storage without any kind of protection to the consumer. Well, the uniform commercial

601
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:11,520
code covers all that. That's state state law. That's an accurate.

602
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,100
And then your materials not

603
00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:19,540
of directing consumers to the UTC for resolution.

604
00:51:20,180 --> 00:51:22,720
Clotters operations as far as I know are compliant

605
00:51:22,720 --> 00:51:24,460
with Washington regulations.

606
00:51:24,740 --> 00:51:28,700
If you go to their website and you click in Clotters Seattle,

607
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:32,340
you'll see the Washington Commission's information.

608
00:51:32,860 --> 00:51:34,280
We went through a complaint process

609
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:37,560
and an audit process with staff and they reviewed it,

610
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:39,920
reviewed Clotters information.

611
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:41,940
We've been through that process.

612
00:51:41,940 --> 00:51:46,360
as we work with staff and we have resolved those issues.

613
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,080
All right. Thank you. I have no further questions.

614
00:51:56,190 --> 00:51:58,490
So, commissioners, do you have any questions

615
00:51:58,490 --> 00:52:04,310
for? All right. Stephanie Chase from the Public Council unit. Do you like to speak?

616
00:52:06,930 --> 00:52:11,910
Yes. I apologize. It's been kind of a hectic week, so I didn't get my name into the record

617
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:17,910
Center, but Chair Nanner and commissioners Randall and Doomit. My name is Stephanie Chase

618
00:52:17,910 --> 00:52:25,330
and I'm a regulatory analyst with Public Council. Nina Sutake is an attorney on this matter and

619
00:52:25,330 --> 00:52:32,130
unfortunately she was unable to be here today but asked me to deliver comments, just some brief

620
00:52:32,130 --> 00:52:37,950
comments about this matter, which is mainly that Public Council is supportive of the extension of

621
00:52:37,950 --> 00:52:45,270
the exemption as a procedural matter because the tariff 15C revisions are ongoing and we had

622
00:52:45,270 --> 00:52:51,070
previously offered comments in that docket and we look forward to reviewing staff's tariff draft

623
00:52:51,070 --> 00:52:57,370
when it becomes available. So include my comments there unless there are any questions.

624
00:52:58,210 --> 00:53:01,410
All right, let me see. Thank you. Commissioners, do you have any questions for public council?

625
00:53:02,490 --> 00:53:10,930
I have no questions. Thank you. No questions. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Is there anyone else on the call who wishes to speak to this matter?

626
00:53:15,450 --> 00:53:17,730
All right. Hearing none. Let me go back to Mike Young.

627
00:53:21,410 --> 00:53:28,170
I apologize. My name is Stephen Galbanyo. I'm the president of Airband Moving and Storage.

628
00:53:29,410 --> 00:53:36,730
And just sticking to the procedural matter, as the council says, this is outrageous.

629
00:53:37,450 --> 00:53:46,970
It's loud out outrageous that we have legitimate moving companies that file our reports that pay our taxes.

630
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:51,530
that have mandatory increases in the minimum wage,

631
00:53:52,250 --> 00:53:54,150
various pickup and drop fees,

632
00:53:54,410 --> 00:53:55,930
everything else that these communities

633
00:53:55,930 --> 00:53:59,170
throughout the state of Washington require of us to do.

634
00:54:00,130 --> 00:54:03,050
So we like a bunch of small business idiots

635
00:54:03,050 --> 00:54:04,410
played by the rules.

636
00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:08,790
And we get caught up in procedural matters.

637
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:12,190
One of the commissioners at the outset of this

638
00:54:12,190 --> 00:54:15,690
was assuring the gentleman about the water issue.

639
00:54:15,690 --> 00:54:21,830
So he couldn't guarantee rating increases because it is after all a very inflationary environment.

640
00:54:23,050 --> 00:54:33,790
I think it's just as a matter of equity that to treat established movers, family businesses

641
00:54:33,790 --> 00:54:40,550
have been forever paying people in the state of Washington forever, an extension of our misery

642
00:54:40,550 --> 00:54:46,590
just so you can bend yourself into a pretzel to try and accommodate this

643
00:54:47,230 --> 00:54:54,050
depocketed entity and I'm offended by it and I just want to go on record saying

644
00:54:54,050 --> 00:54:58,330
that there's no excuse for this extension there's no excuse for the combining of

645
00:54:58,330 --> 00:55:04,190
these issues we need a rate increasing we needed as Mr. Hanson said a long time ago

646
00:55:04,190 --> 00:55:04,890
that's

647
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,160
the sum of my comments and I thank the commissioners for allowing me to speak

648
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,240
Thank you. I did not catch your name, though. Could you repeat it for the record?

649
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:24,600
Yes. My name is Steve Galvanya, G-A-L-V-A-G-N-O. I am the President of AirBam and Principal

650
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,360
of AirBam Moving and Storage. All right. Thank you very much for your comments this morning.

651
00:55:30,500 --> 00:55:40,170
Thank you, sir. All right. Let me, I want to turn to Mike Young. I see that Chad Stokes has raised his

652
00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:49,790
I think there's a conflation of the rate increase issue with what clutter is asking for.

653
00:55:50,070 --> 00:55:53,390
I mean, there are two separate documents that were consolidated here.

654
00:55:53,930 --> 00:56:01,450
And staff asked for the traditional movers to provide rate information to justify a rate increase.

655
00:56:01,670 --> 00:56:04,530
And that's what you're hearing complaints about that.

656
00:56:04,670 --> 00:56:06,810
That has nothing to do with clutter's motion.

657
00:56:06,810 --> 00:56:11,550
So, I just want to make sure we're not mixing apples and oranges, clutter's not holding up

658
00:56:11,550 --> 00:56:16,570
that process. All right, thank you for that comment. Mike Young, I want to turn to you.

659
00:56:18,330 --> 00:56:20,630
You're hearing quite a bit this morning.

660
00:56:23,130 --> 00:56:24,130
There is

661
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:34,570
the Washington Movers Council members are stressing the need for a rate increase.

662
00:56:34,570 --> 00:56:40,510
case, we do have this petition from clutter. I wonder if you wanted to comment on the things

663
00:56:40,510 --> 00:56:41,510
that you've heard this morning.

664
00:56:43,050 --> 00:56:46,850
Yes, thank you. First of all, I would like to point out that the commission did allow

665
00:56:46,850 --> 00:56:53,770
a temporary 12.1% increase in order to. And so the tariff pages had been revised back in

666
00:56:53,770 --> 00:57:01,530
June to reflect that. That was a temporary increase subject to the outcome of this review

667
00:57:01,530 --> 00:57:06,650
that we're doing in both of these dockets that have been combined, the other thing I would like

668
00:57:06,650 --> 00:57:11,230
to point out is that some of the requests in the clutter petition appeared to be beneficial

669
00:57:11,230 --> 00:57:18,110
to customers and therefore merit consideration for review of the tariff language and also some of

670
00:57:18,110 --> 00:57:25,070
the information that was requested relating to those issues were returned along with the financial

671
00:57:25,070 --> 00:57:30,930
data provided by Washington Movers Conference in October of this year. So we're still trying to

672
00:57:30,930 --> 00:57:32,210
to wait through some of that.

673
00:57:32,670 --> 00:57:35,490
And again, I apologize that there's been some staffing issues

674
00:57:35,490 --> 00:57:40,470
that if that's not the company's fault for sure,

675
00:57:40,650 --> 00:57:42,490
but we're doing the best that we can right now.

676
00:57:43,330 --> 00:57:44,730
All right, thank you very much.

677
00:57:44,850 --> 00:57:47,630
And I don't think you need to apologize to me for that.

678
00:57:50,950 --> 00:57:53,250
This is an extension that would last three months

679
00:57:54,890 --> 00:57:58,650
or earlier if the investigation can be completed before them.

680
00:57:58,770 --> 00:57:59,810
What is your best estimate?

681
00:58:01,090 --> 00:58:05,570
In talking with my colleagues in consumer protection, we're looking at hopefully the end of February.

682
00:58:06,290 --> 00:58:09,070
This would have to be brought back to an open meeting, both of these dockets.

683
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:16,330
And to be able to wrap up all of those loose ends and to provide draft care of pages, things of that nature.

684
00:58:16,730 --> 00:58:20,050
We would need a little bit of time, but that's been the discussion so far.

685
00:58:21,330 --> 00:58:22,910
Okay. All right. Thank you.

686
00:58:24,310 --> 00:58:28,750
Commissioner, do you have questions for any of our commenters this morning?

687
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:36,720
No, but I believe Mr. Tutton seems to want to speak again, think he raised his hand physically.

688
00:58:38,820 --> 00:58:45,200
Okay. So Jim, we'll get back to you in a second. Let me just ask if there's anyone else on the line who wishes to speak to this matter.

689
00:58:49,630 --> 00:58:51,390
Okay, not hearing anything. Jim, go ahead.

690
00:58:52,170 --> 00:59:02,770
I just wanted to comment on Mr. Young's comments about the 12.1 rating increase that was provided.

691
00:59:02,770 --> 00:59:05,510
was provided as part of this particular

692
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:06,430
docket proceeding.

693
00:59:07,370 --> 00:59:12,430
And the pages have been issued to the parties

694
00:59:12,430 --> 00:59:15,450
on the tariff.

695
00:59:17,130 --> 00:59:20,790
I may be mistaken, but I haven't seen those pages.

696
00:59:21,550 --> 00:59:26,430
When this 12.1% increase was identified

697
00:59:26,930 --> 00:59:28,930
at one of the last open meetings,

698
00:59:28,930 --> 00:59:37,370
I had several discussions with a household good consumer folks on how

699
00:59:39,070 --> 00:59:46,050
movers were going to adopt the 12.1% increase. How they were going to

700
00:59:46,050 --> 00:59:50,790
document the household good tariff increase 12.1% on bills of

701
00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:57,870
lading estimated cost of services, for example, and they initially came up with a

702
00:59:57,870 --> 00:59:59,770
procedure that we

703
01:00:00,590 --> 01:00:30,090
Staff and myself. Finally agreed after several communications that that procedure was not right. And so they, I was told at that time that pages were not going to be distributed to the participants on House of the Terra 15C. They, they could just choose any rate. Between one, between zero and 12%.

704
01:00:30,090 --> 01:00:38,090
12.1% as their increase as they discuss moving services with their with their

705
01:00:38,090 --> 01:00:44,450
potential customers. One rate in the tariff may it may receive a 6% increase.

706
01:00:45,130 --> 01:00:53,570
Another rate in the tariff may require and be presented as 12.1% but unless I'm

707
01:00:53,570 --> 01:00:57,290
unless I'm wrong and I could very easily be wrong. There's a lot of paperwork flying

708
01:00:57,290 --> 01:01:05,290
around. I have not seen any pages that amended the tariff 15c on a 12.1 percent rate increase.

709
01:01:06,070 --> 01:01:06,350
Thank you.

710
01:01:09,900 --> 01:01:15,920
All right. Now, of course, when you have a rate band, I don't know how you put a

711
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:22,900
particular increase on paper unless you identify the band and then it's up to the company to choose

712
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:27,700
where that goes. Do you want to comment on that?

713
01:01:28,820 --> 01:01:34,520
Yes, I've just been advised that the increase was put in as a supplement, a tariff supplement.

714
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:41,440
So it's not a change to the actual tariff 15C itself. It's just an additional pages that would apply.

715
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:43,420
And the effective date was made,

716
01:01:46,020 --> 01:01:47,720
May 27th of this year.

717
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:59,020
Okay. Well, I just want to make sure that the companies are able to implement that increase and get the revenue they need.

718
01:01:59,020 --> 01:02:04,620
So if they have questions, I encourage them to work with staff and let's get this resolved as

719
01:02:04,620 --> 01:02:11,980
expeditiously as possible. There's some misunderstanding. So thank you. Lindsey Walden, I saw your hand go

720
01:02:11,980 --> 01:02:15,080
up and then go down. Did Mike answer the question?

721
01:02:19,350 --> 01:02:21,290
Yeah, I apologize. I did not mean to raise my hand.

722
01:02:21,290 --> 01:02:32,070
I apologize. Okay. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. Mike, commissioners, we have

723
01:02:32,470 --> 01:02:45,130
Here, a request for an extension of the waiver for another three months that would give staff more time to work on this docket.

724
01:02:46,910 --> 01:02:52,130
And you've heard a lot of issues around a lot of things today.

725
01:02:55,390 --> 01:03:00,910
My own feeling is that this is procedural matter. This is only going to be a few months. Let's

726
01:03:00,910 --> 01:03:01,270
let it

727
01:03:04,220 --> 01:03:09,640
go forward. This is not going to presuppose any outcome in the proceeding. It will come back

728
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:17,060
to us. But I would be I take all of the comments we've received this morning very seriously.

729
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:23,100
And those will be things that we're looking at. But I would let this go forward for the next three

730
01:03:23,100 --> 01:03:28,220
months. Let's grant the extension to ask Mike to work as quickly as he can, given the resources he

731
01:03:28,220 --> 01:03:34,080
has and his team has. But let's go forward today and I'd like to know your thoughts.

732
01:03:38,550 --> 01:03:39,170
Mr. Chair,

733
01:03:39,290 --> 01:03:45,590
I concur with your thoughts. We're on an arrow issue today. We've heard from Ray Lujo. I think

734
01:03:45,590 --> 01:03:54,130
what would be the upcoming discussion and I am hopeful that we have also cleared up the issue of the

735
01:03:55,190 --> 01:03:59,910
12.1 percent up to 12.1 rate increase as well, so that's something.

736
01:03:59,990 --> 01:04:02,370
Thank you. My internet is unstable.

737
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:05,200
Okay.

738
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,020
Did you re-able to hear my comments, Mr. Chair?

739
01:04:10,300 --> 01:04:12,560
Possibly I concur with you. I concur with your thoughts. Thank you.

740
01:04:12,740 --> 01:04:15,660
Thank you. I'm sorry. My internet is unstable here.

741
01:04:17,340 --> 01:04:21,720
It flashed out for just a second and I apologize for that. Commissioner Reddaw.

742
01:04:23,100 --> 01:04:26,180
Thank you, Chair Danter, and I also concur in your thoughts.

743
01:04:26,380 --> 01:04:27,580
This is a procedural matter.

744
01:04:27,580 --> 01:04:31,600
I understand that there's a great amount of disagreement over the substance of this.

745
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:33,400
That will come back to us.

746
01:04:33,540 --> 01:04:38,040
I'd like to make sure the staff have the time to evaluate this information that they've

747
01:04:38,040 --> 01:04:40,840
received and delve into all the details.

748
01:04:40,860 --> 01:04:48,500
We will discuss the merits, but I also agree, Chair Danter, that any issue with a 12.1 increase

749
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:51,340
that we granted back in May should be resolved.

750
01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:53,460
So if there are questions, let's work on that

751
01:04:53,460 --> 01:04:55,860
and make sure that the companies have the ability

752
01:04:55,860 --> 01:04:57,320
and the flexibility that we've,

753
01:04:57,560 --> 01:05:00,680
I think we intended to give them in May.

754
01:05:01,080 --> 01:05:02,780
And so that's a side issue.

755
01:05:03,300 --> 01:05:05,000
So let's get that resolved with staff.

756
01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:10,360
But I support staff's recommendation in this matter

757
01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:11,600
and I'm happy to make a motion.

758
01:05:12,380 --> 01:05:14,680
All right. Before you do that, Mike Young,

759
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,860
I just want to clarify that this really deals

760
01:05:16,860 --> 01:05:23,460
with small goods moves with storage. Is that correct? Yes, that's my understanding. Okay.

761
01:05:24,660 --> 01:05:27,340
Thank you. Yes, Commissioner, I would entertain a motion.

762
01:05:28,660 --> 01:05:32,380
Okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait, can I ask a quick question? You... Sure.

763
01:05:32,580 --> 01:05:38,140
Chairman, Dana, you just mentioned that this issue applies only to small goods, transportation

764
01:05:38,140 --> 01:05:46,840
and storage? That's my understanding. No, no, no. This procedure applies to

765
01:05:46,860 --> 01:05:55,200
to all storage activities, commercial storage, which is unregulated, storage and transit,

766
01:05:55,460 --> 01:06:01,100
which is regulated by household goods care of 15C, and small goods transportation, as

767
01:06:01,100 --> 01:06:05,000
you mentioned, again regulated by household goods care of 15C.

768
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,980
Not just small goods transportation, I want to make that clear.

769
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:10,220
All right, thank you.

770
01:06:10,220 --> 01:06:15,080
Thank you for that clarification, because that's my understanding is this was pretty circumscribed.

771
01:06:15,080 --> 01:06:18,420
So, Chad Stokes, do you want to give me your review on this?

772
01:06:19,260 --> 01:06:19,400
Yes.

773
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:27,080
So it is all moves that have to do with storage, so it's broader than just the small goods

774
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:31,480
transportation storage, which is limited to a certain amount of items.

775
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:36,180
This commission previously found that these exemptions were in the public interest and that

776
01:06:36,180 --> 01:06:37,380
it benefited customers.

777
01:06:37,640 --> 01:06:43,600
So we've gone through the process about why this commission has ruled that there's good

778
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:47,740
caused to grant these exemptions under these circumstances. So we've already kind of

779
01:06:47,740 --> 01:06:53,180
been through this process, understand people are getting tired of this, but all those

780
01:06:53,180 --> 01:06:55,020
same factors apply today.

781
01:06:55,760 --> 01:06:59,020
All right. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Jim Tutton, for raising the issue. And thank

782
01:06:59,020 --> 01:07:00,640
you, Jim.

783
01:07:01,320 --> 01:07:07,180
I have another question on what was just mentioned by, by, by, by, by, like, like,

784
01:07:07,180 --> 01:07:08,380
clever inks represented.

785
01:07:12,340 --> 01:07:20,220
The rates are not just fair to the consumer.

786
01:07:21,740 --> 01:07:28,620
Regulatory procedures through RCWs and WACs within the state of Washington require not

787
01:07:28,620 --> 01:07:39,620
just the consumer be treated barely, but also the carrier, whether or not it's a

788
01:07:39,620 --> 01:07:44,720
to operate or they have to be in the consideration process as well so let's

789
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:49,800
don't forget that. All right well that is that is always our understanding. So

790
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:55,640
thank you for that. Again we have a proceeding before us that we need to

791
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:00,840
resolve. Mr. Young has indicated that they're looking forward to completing

792
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,300
that in the next few months. We'll bring it back to us in a lot of these

793
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:09,140
issues that you have raised this morning will be part of that conversation. In

794
01:08:09,140 --> 01:08:15,160
Commissioner Rendall said I think it is important that we get nailed down if there are any issues

795
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:19,220
that are keeping companies from implementing the rate increase that we authorized in May.

796
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:26,060
Let's find out what those are and get those resolved. In the meantime, as I said, I think it doesn't

797
01:08:26,060 --> 01:08:30,580
change my position that I'm okay letting this go forward for another three months extension.

798
01:08:31,020 --> 01:08:34,520
I know that staff is working expeditiously. It will probably be less time than that.

799
01:08:36,440 --> 01:08:43,080
But with that, if my commission colleagues agree, I think I would entertain a motion

800
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:43,540
at this point.

801
01:08:44,440 --> 01:08:46,260
Yes, and I will make the motion.

802
01:08:46,380 --> 01:08:47,700
This is on a procedural issue.

803
01:08:47,820 --> 01:08:51,760
This is not on merits, the merits, and for us, then we can make all of those arguments

804
01:08:51,760 --> 01:08:52,440
again.

805
01:08:53,340 --> 01:09:01,280
So at this point, I move that in Docket TV 210-535, that the commission issue and order granting

806
01:09:01,280 --> 01:09:08,920
an extension of waivers granted from Terra-15C and certain provisions of WAC-480-15 in order

807
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:16,680
one of the stocket as requested in the motion filed by Clutter Inc. on November 29, 2022, until

808
01:09:16,680 --> 01:09:24,380
the earlier of March 31, 2023, the date the Commission ends the investigation into Terra-15C

809
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:29,200
or the effective date of new rules or amendments to Terra-15C.

810
01:09:32,460 --> 01:09:51,280
All right, there has been a motion. It is seconded. The motion carries. So thank you. We will revisit this issue in in not much time. Very soon. So thank you all for your discussion this morning. It has been very informative.

811
01:09:52,700 --> 01:09:55,800
I think this brings us to the end of our agenda today.

812
01:09:57,040 --> 01:09:59,620
If there's nothing else to come before the commission,

813
01:09:59,960 --> 01:10:02,680
I wanna thank everybody for all the work

814
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:04,520
that they have done over 2022.

815
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:09,180
Thank you for everything you've done this year

816
01:10:09,180 --> 01:10:11,400
and I look forward to working with you next year

817
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:13,520
and I wish you all the happiest of holidays.

818
01:10:14,380 --> 01:10:17,000
Be safe out there and we'll see you in 2023.

819
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:19,560
So with that, we are adjourned.

820
01:10:19,860 --> 01:10:20,540
Thank you all.

821
01:10:21,420 --> 01:10:22,080
Thank you.

822
01:10:22,340 --> 01:10:22,940
Thank you.