[0:00] How are you?
>> Hey, Ky.
[0:01] » Gerald won't be here. Do you know?
>> Probably not.
[0:04] » I'll put this original on your desk. I
forgot to
[0:06] » I'm going to make me a copy. Is that
okay? Put this on your desk.
[0:09] » Thank you.
[0:13] » Thank you.
[0:25] » Thank you.
>> Short agenda.
[0:27] » Sounds good.
[0:41] Come on down.
[0:46] No big
not.
[0:51] » No.
[0:58] » Nope.
Got tail in.
[1:04] Better shut my phone off. Oh, it's off.
[1:11] » Everyone, please turn your cell phones
off.
[1:16] You're turned off, man.
Off.
[1:22] Make can find the right button.
>> All right, we'll go ahead and call the
[1:26] meeting to order. Mr. Floyd, would you
lead us in the pledge? And I'll say a
[1:31] short prayer.
>> Please stand.
[1:35] I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the
[1:40] republic for which it stands, one nation
under God, indivisible, liberty and
[1:47] justice for all.
>> Heavenly Father, thank you for this
[1:51] beautiful day. Thank you for these many
blessings you've given us. Lord God,
[1:58] watch over us and guide us through these
proceedings and bless those who serve
[2:04] us. In his precious name we pray. Amen.
>> Amen. [snorts]
[2:14] » All right. Need a motion to approve the
minutes of last month's meeting.
[2:22] » I'll make that motion.
>> Second.
[2:25] All those in favor say I. I. I. Thank
you.
[2:29] All right, Mr. Floyd. Sure.
[2:37] August uh
was pretty much an uneventful month, so
[2:43] we ain't got a lot on the agenda for
today.
[2:46] Um,
our deposits for August was $111,494.
[2:57] Total runs was 237.
Breakdown of those runs are on that
[3:02] second page that I give you. And again,
our uh uh ALS ALS runs far outnumbered
[3:10] the the BLS, which is more ALS runs we
do, the the more
[3:19] billing we can get. Uh
like I said, they're all broke down
[3:24] there. Like I said, total of 237.
Uh finally got uh Keiesler
[3:33] Police Supply has finally got the ball
running on those uh protective vests
[3:38] that we're going to be getting. Uh they
have sent out a link
[3:44] uh to uh every full-time employee via
their phone for a sizing app app that
[3:51] they can do. Um, like I said, they're
going to be what they call an alpha
[3:56] sizing, which is a small, medium, large,
extra large, 2X, or whatever. But they
[4:00] still need to put in their weight, their
height, and do some measurements. Uh, do
[4:07] a virtual butler, so to speak. Uh, and
then they will uh uh we'll get them
[4:15] ordered once them sizes get done. Um, I
think we've had one girl that's not got
[4:21] her
uh text message yet from them. So, I'll
[4:25] work on that today when I get back. Make
sure everybody's make sure everybody's
[4:30] getting the the text message and has the
app to do the sizing.
[4:36] Um, other than that,
that's about all I've got today other
[4:42] than some some other business that uh I
was going to ask about where we stand on
[4:48] the the uh the building
process from the incident that we had
[4:57] month or so ago. I hadn't heard anything
on it yet. So,
[5:01] » I I hadn't either, but apparently the uh
they're waiting on the of course he's
[5:06] not going to he's not going to come in
and uh go back and forth and make
[5:11] several trips. So, the waiting on the
door. They had to order a new door, you
[5:16] know. We're going to eliminate
>> side. Yeah.
[5:18] » Yeah. They're going to eliminate that
double door and put a single security
[5:23] door in there. And that's uh then it it
should be it's been long enough. It
[5:28] should be in uh about any day. So I I
look for them probably start on that
[5:33] probably next week.
>> Okay. And then uh um the issue with the
[5:39] ceiling tiles um
um there's no point in putting new
[5:44] ceiling tiles in until they find the
source of that leak where the uh the
[5:49] main part of the building. um
butts up against that basically that end
[5:56] where the corner's
uh office is and uh reception area is
[6:03] kind of like a lean to. So uh I think
they said there's some flashing that
[6:09] might be causing the issue and uh he's
got to do that before he puts ceiling
[6:15] tiles in. And then uh I believe that uh
they're going to
[6:22] Sullivan's is going to put the new floor
down on the 15th. So hopefully he'll
[6:27] have the door in and everything done
before they uh rip that old nasty carpet
[6:34] up and
fix the floor then. So
[6:40] » all right honey,
>> it's
[6:41] » I knew that. Remember Kyrie told me it's
with Sullivans they'd been this month. I
[6:45] couldn't remember the date she'd said.
So,
[6:47] » yeah.
>> So, just wanted to kind of get a
[6:52] » um then um
they're going to of course they'll have
[6:59] to take all those filing cabinets out of
the corner's office and and the desk
[7:08] and uh
we'll have to put those somewhere out of
[7:13] the way. you know, maybe in the vicinity
of that that cooler outside in in your
[7:19] area there just temporarily till the
floor dries.
[7:24] So,
[snorts]
[7:28] so you might you you guys might keep an
eye out and and Mike going is going to
[7:34] him and Tony are going to move the
furniture out
[7:38] um when Sullivan's gets gets ready to
put the the floor down. So, uh which
[7:45] will be I assume be a couple three or 4
days before they actually do it. So, you
[7:52] might keep an eye out for them and make
sure they
[7:56] put that stuff in an area that's not
going to affect you or wouldn't be in
[8:00] the way for for a while.
[8:08] So, that's the update on that. Anything
anything changes, I'll let you know.
[8:13] » Okay. Um, I do have a question. um your
uh
[8:20] your drug certification and all that is
is that all pretty much done or we
[8:27] » done with that.
>> Yeah, I knew the certification was
[8:32] » what I meant to say was
you're up and running as far as we're
[8:37] purchasing our own drugs.
>> Yep.
[8:39] » Ourel and
>> everything's been solution from Dr.
[8:43] Morgan's DA numbers. We done the
inventory like we supposed to. Soon as
[8:47] Tony got the numbers, we done the
inventory on it. Took the papers of Dr.
[8:51] Morgan, all the appropriate stuff for
the DEA, transferred what was left in
[8:55] his name to our name, and then we
actually placed our first order with the
[8:59] pharmacy yesterday, day four, yesterday.
>> So he he won't actually be signing off
[9:05] on on that. It's strictly us more.
>> No, it's us. [snorts] that gonna have
[9:11] any effect on the
the prices, good, bad, or otherwise?
[9:18] » Not really. Not Not really. I mean, we
can still purchase through St. Vincent,
[9:22] which we're going to.
>> Okay.
[9:24] » So, we can still purchase through them.
It's just we're purchasing through with
[9:28] us instead of
>> in our name instead of Yes.
[9:31] » So, yeah, we can still purchase through
them cuz that's about really where we
[9:36] can get our best prices at through them.
And there might be some things sometimes
[9:41] where they may be running short of
something. We can go through boundary or
[9:45] somebody else to get them. But uh
>> yeah,
[9:47] » but uh other than that, yeah, we're
still going to try to get everything
[9:51] through St. Vincent if we can. So all
your uh
[9:57] your your supervisors, they're up to
speed on the protocols for us handling
[10:04] our own drugs and everything. Okay.
[clears throat]
[10:07] » Yep.
Still a little bit of a learning curve,
[10:10] but they're they're all aware. They're
all stay on top of it every day.
[10:19] » All right. Um
had any communication with the hospital
[10:25] people lately? What's going on there?
They uh
[10:32] causing any problems or having any
concerns or heard
[10:38] » not heard much from from them. Really
haven't.
[10:41] » Still do the emergency transfer.
Occasion they'll call and need know want
[10:44] to know if we got a truck. So far the
last three or four times we've had a
[10:47] truck available to do the emergency
transfers.
[10:50] » This has happened four or five times a
month probably
[10:53] » somewhere in that neighborhood.
>> Yeah.
[10:59] » Contract with just takes them so long to
get there. Some emergencies need to get
[11:03] out.
So [snorts] they don't have an ambulance
[11:06] sitting there all the time. No
>> place they contract with comes out of
[11:10] Clarksville. Is that right, Tony?
>> They come out of Clarksville and if
[11:14] they're busy, they won't they can't get
somebody there. Sometimes they got to
[11:17] wait for their first available truck to
get there.
[11:21] » Use more than one. I mean,
>> yeah. Um,
[11:25] now the only the only issue we've had
was was a recent issue and I've not I've
[11:31] not had a chance to uh talk to who I
need to talk to about it. But uh uh they
[11:37] are our supervising hospital. Uh every
EMS agency has to have one unless you
[11:43] got a waiver. We don't have that waiver.
So we have to have a supervising
[11:47] hospital. Uh so they are supervising
hospital and any physician that works in
[11:55] that ER for that any given day is
considered our medical control.
[12:02] Uh and uh there was a crew that ran into
a situation
[12:07] uh and the uh doctor kind of in the ER
kind of give him a little uh grief
[12:13] saying that uh we were putting him in a
liability situation.
[12:19] » How how did you do that?
>> That that's Well, it's through medical
[12:22] control questions. Uh we there's we go
we sit here all day talking about that.
[12:30] But uh fact of the matter is when
they're in that ER and they are working
[12:35] the ER, they are our medical control. Uh
that is the way uh it's set up. It's the
[12:43] way that uh it's done through the
supervising hospital. It's also done
[12:46] through our medical director, Dr.
Morgan. So uh but uh it's just uh and
[12:52] it's a couple of doctors. It's not been
over there that long. So So I'm going to
[12:58] have to talk with Dr. Morgan and I'm
going to have to talk with the powers to
[13:02] be at the hospital about that situation
and [snorts]
[13:05] and uh if not then we'll have to come up
with another solution somehow or
[13:11] another. So, but other than that, that's
the only issue that that I've been aware
[13:17] of that we've had with them.
And like I said, it really wasn't with
[13:23] them. It was with the ER physician.
[13:29] Okay.
[13:39] Do they have a meeting coming up? A
regularly scheduled meeting where you
[13:46] know when they normally would invite you
just for a update on things or
[13:51] » Yeah. They have those er committee what
they call er committee meetings. Uh they
[13:57] started out they was going to have them
every month, but then they've changed
[14:00] it. Now they're having them like once
every 90 days. Uh so uh I haven't gotten
[14:06] an email reminder of the one coming up
cuz uh like I said, they've changed
[14:10] them. U so as soon as they do, then I'll
forward that to somebody if somebody
[14:17] wants to set in on that, more than
welcome to. Uh but I haven't I haven't
[14:22] gotten one yet. So, [clears throat]
like I said, they were going to have it
[14:28] every 30 days and then they've kind of
changed it to once every 3 months. So,
[14:41] » okay. Anybody have any questions for
Tony?
[14:46] » Talk about this third ambulance. Tell
me, tell me what you want, how we going
[14:50] to do this, and what we need to do as a
board and how we going to fund it and
[14:56] all that.
>> We got to start somewhere. Let's get it
[14:59] started.
>> Well, county council's got to fund it,
[15:01] Tony.
>> Well, okay.
[15:02] » That's that's it. I mean, that's
[clears throat]
[15:04] » I mentioned about doing transfers
transportations for the hospital, and I
[15:09] think we can maybe get part of them if
that would help offset the cost. Well,
[15:14] the only thing is with transfers, you
have to you have to you have to
[15:18] understand
>> I'm understanding that, Mike. Yeah.
[15:20] » You have to understand that we don't
make we don't make a lot of money on
[15:24] transfers, especially if it's Medicare,
Medicaid. 237 bucks.
[15:29] » Okay,
>> that's it. I mean, that that's not even
[15:32] going to pay if we go to Louisville.
That's not even going to pay for the
[15:35] wear and tear on the truck, the cruise,
the the maintenance.
[15:38] » That's why we're discussing that. The
wear and tear on the trucks is about
[15:41] $5.67 67 cents a mile.
>> Yep.
[15:44] » Yeah. So, I mean,
>> the mileage we try to get on them right
[15:46] now.
>> But anyway, I mean now, you know, they
[15:49] they're not they're they're not all
won't be that way, but you know, the
[15:53] private insurance will be build at a
different rate, be 400% above that that
[15:58] Medicare allowable rate, you know, and
self-pays. And that's another issue uh
[16:05] we deal with is self-pays because with
self-pays
[16:09] you're lucky if you can collect
anything.
[16:13] Uh I mean it's just you know that's just
the way it is now day. Well been that
[16:18] way for a long time but [clears throat]
you know uh it's just you know people
[16:24] have a hard time you know if they have a
medical thing it's it's expensive and
[16:28] I'm aware of that and I've been through
that. Uh so I mean it but uh you know
[16:34] it's it's as far as reimbursement on
doing transfers, we're not going to be
[16:42] looking at that much that much
reimbursement.
[16:46] » Every little bit does add up.
>> Well, the last one we done, last study
[16:50] we done when we was talking about
transfers, we needed the hospital to
[16:54] reimburse us $300 per run just to break
even. That
[16:58] » how long ago was that? Was there any
price to go to
[17:02] » two years ago?
>> Two, three.
[17:03] » Yeah.
>> What was it then?
[17:05] » $300 of
>> I mean, what what did they offer?
[17:09] » Uh, zero.
>> Zero.
[17:10] » Zero.
>> They didn't offer nothing
[17:12] » other than a fine if we wasn't there in
20 minutes.
[17:15] » Okay.
>> I mean, we went we we talked with them
[17:17] for months.
>> Uh, years.
[17:20] » Years.
>> Yeah. Years. Uh Mhm.
[17:23] » And uh
you know they they just wouldn't
[17:29] » people changes and policies change.
>> Well, they they got different people
[17:32] over. They do have a different
administration, but they still have the
[17:35] mothership they have to answer to.
>> Uh
[17:41] you know, I don't have I didn't bring
that folder with me because I didn't
[17:44] know he was going to discuss that. But
you know, it's like Tony said, the
[17:47] council's got to come up with the money,
>> right? When we presented this again last
[17:51] year with the budget, we put a packet
together because everybody was worried
[17:55] about this Senate Bill one. Well,
actually, Senate Bill One has some
[17:58] options in there. I don't know. I didn't
pursue it any further, but we we pursued
[18:02] it far enough where township trustees
can help fund this third truck. It's in
[18:08] there. It clearly states in there. They
can help offset the run. That's why we
[18:12] done the run volume. We track how many
runs we do in each township. We can do a
[18:17] break. We done a breakdown saying this
is what each township would have to help
[18:21] with uh to help us break even. So that
way the council wouldn't have to come up
[18:28] with all that money. Of course,
Washington Township was the biggest
[18:33] draw
>> would be the biggest draw because 56% of
[18:35] our runs are Washington Township and
then it goes to Pope and then it goes to
[18:40] Pierce and then it goes to
>> Jackson.
[18:44] » Uh no Jackson Brown. Brown, Vernon,
Brown, and then Jackson and then Vernon
[18:49] and then Gibson and then Posey is kind
of the breakdown. The last ones are
[18:54] Monroe and Jefferson of course and then
Howard, which is Blue River, I believe.
[19:01] Uh that's the way the runs break down
and we was able to say this is what each
[19:05] township and we had that in that packet.
Senate Bill One. I'm not the lawyer and
[19:09] we told them that up front, but we gave
them the option, showed them the law,
[19:12] showed them the law numbers and all that
stuff where they could look at that.
[19:15] Now, I don't know, you know, we're not
on the council. We just gave them that
[19:18] option. Here is something we've seen. It
clearly states made some phone calls and
[19:23] they said, "Yes, that can be done that
way." So, the township trustees, I still
[19:26] think can help reimburse to get that
third truck to help out with those costs
[19:31] where the taxpayers wouldn't have to pay
any more. Uh, and then Tony come up last
[19:37] year and the year before about EMS tax,
a real small percentage. Tony's come up
[19:42] with that. We've not heard what people
we talked to would be more than willing
[19:46] to help do that. So, I know it's a tax.
I know
[19:53] » taxes. Yeah.
>> 0.4%
[19:56] is what we could we could draw on.
That's been that's been in effect since
[20:00] like 2023, something like that. I didn't
bring my packing with me.
[20:04] » So, [snorts] I mean, that's I mean,
[clears throat] the thing of it is to to
[20:09] substain
down the future,
[20:14] something something's got to be done.
[snorts]
[20:17] I mean,
>> I'm on your side.
[20:19] » Yeah. I mean, I I I don't know. I mean,
it's, you know, we just can't,
[20:26] you know, I mean, it seems like,
you know, sometimes we take a brow
[20:31] beating at these budget hearings, but
it's like, you know, that's that's it's
[20:36] all we can do. It's all we can present.
>> Beat back.
[20:39] » Beat back.
>> Well, we got beat up pretty hard last
[20:43] year and it was like, you know, we our
numbers speak for themselves. Our
[20:46] numbers are consistent as hell. Since
Tony and I have been together doing
[20:50] this, our numbers are consistent year in
and year out. I mean, they're they're
[20:53] spot on. Our payroll numbers, Todd even
goes, "Hey, can you make them numbers
[20:57] even a little tighter yet?" And we're we
got them pretty tight this year we're on
[21:01] right now. We got our numbers pretty
much right where they're going to be.
[21:05] Ain't going to be a whole lot left
extra. But our budget, we we're
[21:10] consistent and that's what it takes to
run an ambulance service. And then it's
[21:13] like Tony said, we get, you know, the
day in day out to making sure we have
[21:17] trucks responding to our runs is getting
to be hard without that third truck. It
[21:23] seems like they all happen at once. Like
last night, we're running all night.
[21:26] Yesterday started what about 10:00
yesterday and it didn't stop until
[21:31] 8:15 this morning.
>> So far as the township,
[21:36] I think that's a battle you probably
won't win. just the fact of the state's
[21:42] trying to revamp all that. Anyway,
>> I thought that was the revamping was
[21:46] Senate Bill One. I don't know. Like I
said,
[21:48] » well, no, there's other legislation past
that that's can't, you know, they're
[21:51] trying to merge merge townships and all
that. So, the complexy or whatnot, when
[21:58] you combine all that, you're probably
going to get a lot of push back on that.
[22:01] That's [snorts] just my opinion. So,
[22:13] Yeah, just like Tony said, somebody's
got to come up with the money. That's
[22:17] what we need.
>> And we gave that Tony passed that out
[22:21] during the budget hearings. This is what
it takes to run another truck. You're
[22:25] looking at half a million dollars, give
or take. If you go medic or if you go
[22:29] basic, a little under half a million, a
little over half a million.
[22:33] [snorts] And so what like I know you got
numbers, you're a number guy.
[22:39] If we was to start get a contract and do
some of the hospitals, you know, I know
[22:45] you got factors that you ain't going to
get paid for some and this and that. Is
[22:49] there any there that counteracted at
all?
[22:52] » Yeah. You're still looking at and this
was numbers from like Tony said two or
[22:55] three years ago when we done this. I
don't know exact time frame, but you're
[22:59] still looking at a $250,000 shortfall if
we put that third truck and a half a
[23:04] million.
>> Yeah, but it's we got the 911s. We're
[23:08] emergent. We're emergency service
>> and the problem was and
[23:13] » that takes precedence over
>> take precedence over everything unless
[23:16] it's an emergency transfer
>> and Todd and Bubba was on the board then
[23:20] and Philip I don't remember who else was
on you wasn't on you. They come back and
[23:24] said well if you're not here in 20
minutes if you're going to do transfers
[23:26] we're going to find you I forgot what
that number was and then find you some
[23:30] more for every 30 minutes you're late
after that. So you're telling me that
[23:32] needs that clause just needs to be
pushed out of the equation?
[23:38] » Mhm.
[23:41] » We can't guarantee that,
>> right? We can't
[23:43] » I don't think nobody can.
>> No way you can do that.
[23:46] » And I am under the understanding
>> and I think they basically knew that you
[23:49] know I I you know they didn't want to
work with us. They didn't Tony
[23:53] » I think they I think they are willing to
now. Have you talked to people any
[23:57] » It's been six, eight months ago, but
yes, I talked that they was going
[24:01] through uh trying to find somebody else
to administrate the hospital and I
[24:05] talked to the the main one that was over
all that. So,
[24:09] » you know, Donna, when Donna was there, I
I Donna Donna was easy to talk to. She
[24:15] was uh I I didn't personally I didn't
have an issue with her. I really didn't.
[24:21] Uh so,
>> talk to Dane. Well,
[24:26] but uh
uh [snorts]
[24:33] » that that preceded you all mentioning
that third ambulance at that one time
[24:37] trying to find an avenue.
>> Then you got the other cost of I just
[24:41] thought of this. Like I said, I ain't
going bought those papers in front of
[24:43] me, but every two years you're going to
put 80,000 mi on a truck for transfers.
[24:48] You're going to have to be replacing the
truck every two to three years,
[24:51] » right? It was even proposed to them then
about, hey, just buy us a truck every
[24:54] two or three years. Well, they didn't
want to do that either because there's
[24:58] going to that's going to be another
taxpayer dollar. You're going to wear
[25:00] out a truck. You're going to rack them
miles up. It's an 80 just going to
[25:04] Floyd's a 80 mile round trip.
You know, this is an 80 mile round trip.
[25:09] If you go to If you go south, it's 100
mile round trip.
[25:12] » And then also a lot of their transfers
they do are the indie.
[25:16] » I Yes. And
>> you know that's that's a that's taking a
[25:20] truck out of service for at least four
hours,
[25:23] » right? I do understand that.
>> You know, I mean, minimal
[25:26] » time to uh you know, by the time you get
loaded, you get up there, you drop your
[25:31] patient off, you give a report, you turn
around and come back, you know, you're
[25:37] you're tied at 4 hours. Uh all, you
know, every run's situationally
[25:43] different, but you're tied at four
hours. So um you know I mean right right
[25:50] now I mean right now we do the
emergencies what we can uh and that's
[25:55] all we can do. I mean I mean we will go
over there and we will take people back
[26:00] to the nursing home. We do that. Uh you
know if we go and get them and bring
[26:06] them over here and you know if one of
the trucks are sitting on station we'll
[26:11] go and take that run. It doesn't take us
out of service that long, you know, 15
[26:16] minutes, you know, uh 15 to 20 minutes.
So, I mean, we do those u
[26:23] but like I said, the revenue in in a in
in a in a transfer is just not that
[26:28] high. Uh and like I said, uh Jeie with
ABS can explain that a lot better to
[26:35] you. If you need to, you can call
>> I understand. I'm just trying to find a
[26:39] carrot to dance on front of council to
help me out here.
[26:43] » But that's what uh I mean that's what
we're I mean right right now we we
[26:49] couldn't do we couldn't do anything
without that without that third truck.
[26:53] We just we couldn't
>> right. We just we don't have the we just
[26:56] don't uh you know it's just it's just u
there be will you have problems if say a
[27:04] third truck does come on and finding
have any staffing issues and all
[27:08] » I've got four people right now it's
interested in full-time job.
[27:11] » Oh that's a plus ain't it?
>> Yeah it is. You know I mean uh I mean I
[27:16] got four u so you know I mean
>> but you need six right?
[27:21] » I would need six to put on third truck.
Yeah, I'd have to hire have to come up
[27:25] with two more. But uh but I mean I've
got I've got four that's you know is
[27:31] definitely interested in a full-time
position. So um
[27:38] so it's just kind of
[27:42] you know one of them things. I mean,
it's just we've talked about it and and
[27:46] we've we've uh seemed like every year it
comes up and and uh all the time it
[27:52] comes up and
and just uh
[28:10] do we have me and Tony, we have to make
sure we have a truck responding. We have
[28:14] to make sure that one way or the other.
We have to make sure we have somebody
[28:18] going to somebody that's needing us.
>> Well, you guys have done a a good job uh
[28:25] with with what you've got to work with
and I don't believe uh there's been any
[28:31] cases where you couldn't get to someone.
you made it work with our mutual aid
[28:35] agreements uh which you have to uh
utilize from time to time but
[28:42] done a real good job managing
the crews um I think we have I mean you
[28:50] know with what we have to work with I
mean uh you know it's difficult
[28:57] it is and uh
it uh definitely is not He definitely is
[29:04] not easy.
[29:10] So, until the day comes where
[29:15] the rest of the county can uh
council decides to, and I'm not blaming
[29:20] the council because it's
>> no,
[29:23] » everybody everybody's aware that uh you
know, it's going to take a half million
[29:27] dollars and
a year. So,
[29:33] That's tough. So,
>> it is.
[29:38] » And the uh
the ambulance tax [clears throat]
[29:43] even even if we did enact that that
would only bring in about half the
[29:48] amount, which be helpful, but
I don't imagine there's anybody in
[29:53] county government that wants to
raise taxes. So,
[30:00] Here
we are.
[30:06] All right. Anybody have anything else?
Bubba, do you have anything?
[30:09] » Nope.
[30:12] » Well, keep up the good work.
[30:17] Thank you guys. Motion to adjourn.
>> Did you have anything, Nate? I know
[30:22] sometimes you do.
>> I do.
[30:25] [clears throat] And it's like convenient
that every time I've not been on the
[30:30] agenda and been here, you given me the
opportunity to speak, Todd, but this
[30:34] time you're not. So, it's kind of ironic
in my opinion. Uh,
[30:40] in light of the last meeting, it's why
I'm here because there was information
[30:44] that was given that was inaccurate and
I'm here to clarify that inaccurate. Uh
[30:49] Todd made the comment that all mutual
aid agreements outside of here with the
[30:53] outlying agencies is ALS and ALS only
that provide the ALS ambulance.
[30:59] I have made contact and have that
documentation that that's not what those
[31:03] agreements say.
>> You've got them with you.
[31:06] » I can pull it up on the phone if you'd
like to see. But I'm pretty sure that
[31:09] Tony and them can contest to that as
well. I speak I spoke to your primary
[31:14] who you said which was Harrison County
which is Jeremy McKim. spoke to him
[31:18] personally because I know him very well
>> and he sent me that agreement and
[31:22] nowhere in there does it say that they
will provide you an ALS ambulance or
[31:27] nothing else. He simply and said that he
cannot guarantee sending you an a
[31:33] paramedic ALS ambulance. So no way would
he agree to that because it's not
[31:38] guaranteed. If you want an ambulance,
you get what you get whether it be a
[31:43] basic, whether it be LS, whatever. So,
[31:48] » okay.
>> Still don't understand your reasoning as
[31:50] to wanting us to be ALS to assist the
county in a situation of need. So, but
[31:59] no, no outside agency outside of this
county has a mutual aid agreement
[32:04] stating they will only provide to this
county ALS ambulance.
[32:09] » Yeah, I'll let I'll let Tony answer
that. My imp
[32:14] my understanding was it was assumed even
though it's not written in there
[32:18] specifically that most of the time
generally speaking you will be getting
[32:23] an ALS but that's not always the case.
You're right and uh that's just the way
[32:29] it is. It just depends on
um when we need mutual aid depends on
[32:35] how busy they are. So lot of lot of
factors in involved. Tony, you got
[32:40] anything to say in that response?
>> No, other than fact, you know, I you
[32:44] know, I told you again I'd misspoke on
that and that's that's what it's
[32:47] preferred. I mean, it's it's preferred
as an ALS. You don't know. I'm fully
[32:52] aware, Nate, that you're you're going to
get what you're going to get. Uh you
[32:56] know, whether that's a BLS or ALS or or
whatever. Uh mutual aid agreements that
[33:02] basically mutual aid agreement. Here's
what a mutual aid agreement consists of.
[33:07] It consists of basically that the
responding agency will not bill the
[33:13] referring agency.
So that that's that's that's it. That's
[33:17] it in a nutshell. I mean, it doesn't you
don't really go through, you know, but
[33:22] it's preferred. It's preferred an ALS
truck. I think there's not a a director
[33:27] or an agency around that wouldn't prefer
an ALS ambulance.
[33:31] » I'm not saying BLS BLS BLS is BLS.
They're well capable of providing
[33:38] life-saving care. That's not an issue
with me. I've never had an issue. I've
[33:42] never had an issue down there with you
guys that what I've heard about, but it
[33:46] seems like I hear something about every
30 days that something and I don't I
[33:50] don't know where all this is coming
from. But I'm getting frankly I'm
[33:53] getting little I'm getting a little
tired of it. I really am. I mean, you
[33:58] know, we we try to support everybody we
can support and and we do. I mean, I
[34:03] don't have a pro I do not have a problem
with Jackson Township Fire Department. I
[34:08] don't. You came up to my office the one
time and and when you had a problem with
[34:14] Mike and we sat in there and and and
basically we tried to do it and then
[34:19] I've not really seen much out of you
since that time. Uh but uh you know, I
[34:24] mean
I don't have a pro I don't have a
[34:28] problem. I don't have a problem there.
So let let's make sure let's make that
[34:32] perfectly clear. I don't have a problem.
You know, I mean like I said, you know,
[34:39] mutual aid is mutual aid. And I said I
have said for years and I have said this
[34:44] and I've said this to this board and
I've said it to everybody else that I've
[34:48] talked to. Mutual aid, you can't depend
on mutual aid.
[34:53] You can't because of the fact that if we
call for somebody,
[34:58] we might not get nobody. And that's
that's all surrounding counties.
[35:04] Jackson, that's Harrison, whoever. I
mean, it may not may not be. Well, you
[35:10] guys, we may, you know, the other day
there was a request or something and
[35:16] there was only one person on the truck,
right?
[35:19] » Mhm. So, you know, I mean that that's
that's you know, it's
[35:25] waiting on a a mutual aid thing is just
that it's just in case of an emergency
[35:30] situation that is not going to solve our
problem. That's like putting a freaking
[35:35] band-aid on an amputation. It's not. And
I have said that forever and I'm not
[35:41] going to say anymore about it because I
I I'm I'm I'm I'm
[35:46] over it. It it's not I mean it it it it
I if we have it, we have it and we will
[35:53] use it. If we got it, but if they're not
available, they're not going to be
[35:57] available. And and that and that's just
it. Whether it's ALS, BLS, that's a
[36:01] minute fact. It is. It's minute.
>> And we understand if people ain't
[36:06] available because we do we rarely get a
help out other counties for standbys,
[36:11] but we just done one for Orange County
and had to pull away within 10 minutes
[36:14] because all of a sudden our radio
started going off. So there they are
[36:18] sitting Washington County was, but they
10 minutes later they're not.
[36:21] » Yeah, like I said, you count on it.
>> You you could have 10 trucks and you'd
[36:25] need 12.
>> You know, it's just the nature of this
[36:28] beast of this business. And a lot of
people don't understand it. They don't.
[36:32] But, you know, like I said, we try to do
what we can. And and you know, it's
[36:37] just, you know, do we heavily depend on
mutual aid? Yes, we do. But there's, you
[36:44] know, a lot of times we can't get it.
So, like I said, that's that's not the
[36:48] ant that's not the answer to our ongoing
pro problem with with coverage. It's not
[36:54] » that's why we're asking
>> something has something has to change.
[36:58] Something does.
>> Yeah, I fully understand that. I do. But
[37:05] what I don't understand why we don't
have a mutual aid agreement with them if
[37:10] they got an ambulance service. I ain't
asking for them to pick up the slack on
[37:15] you guys. That's not what there that
way. We have an agreement with them in
[37:18] an emergency situation.
I'd rather see Nate's face standing over
[37:23] top of me giving me CPR than nobody at
all. And that that's just bottom line.
[37:29] » I understand that. So, it ain't nothing
hacking on you guys as a service or
[37:34] nothing like that. It's just the
opposite. I'm I'm I'm acknowledging that
[37:39] you all need help. I'm I'll be the first
one to tell you that we all need help.
[37:44] And it's not me coming here attacking
you, Tony. Uh we we've had a good
[37:48] working relationship for many, many not
attack at Washington County EMS service
[37:52] in general. Period. Everybody needs
help. Every volunteer fire department in
[37:56] this county needs help at times. You
just said it. If you if you have 10
[38:00] ambulances, you need 12. It doesn't
matter if you put on this third truck
[38:04] full time. It's not going to matter
because you're going to need that fourth
[38:06] truck. You're going to need help no
matter what at some point. And that's
[38:11] all we're looking to do is to help and
assist. And I don't for the likes of me
[38:17] understand when somebody's willing to
give you the assistance and help, you
[38:23] slap their hand and tell them no.
I can't for the life of me. When lives
[38:28] are at stake, understand why you tell no
to somebody for help. Now, on the
[38:33] incident that happened the other day
where we only sent one individual, we
[38:37] were requested by Mike because it was an
unknown amount of time for the on call
[38:43] truck to come down there. He requested
us in case because of the situation of
[38:47] the call for us to bring our ambulance.
I radioed him personally and said, "I am
[38:53] the only one that can bring it. We can
transport together. we can figure it
[38:57] out. He confirmed that and said, "We'll
see what we got when we get there. We'll
[39:01] figure it out." It ended up being SO. We
didn't even transport. Just a couple
[39:06] days prior to that, he called us for
assistance with our ambulance to Mount
[39:10] Carmel Road for a structure fire that
they had because they were transporting
[39:13] individuals. We came, we were available,
we came, we stood by with might. Our box
[39:21] was there in case you had to transport
somebody, provide care to people that
[39:25] were overexhausted. We did everything we
had to do. We're here to help. That's
[39:31] what we're trying to do. We want the
permission because it says in the
[39:34] ordinance. Listen, at the end of the
day, and Tony has said it many times as
[39:38] well,
at the end of the day, your ordinance to
[39:41] me when it comes to patient care means
nothing. If somebody needs to get to the
[39:45] hospital and there's not an ambulance
coming and I have that ability, it can
[39:49] be recorded. I'm going to violate your
ordinance and I will transport
[39:52] » and I appreciate that
>> 100%. Because the patient that's laying
[39:55] there doesn't deserve to delay that
care. Now, is that all the time? No,
[39:59] it's not. You guys are pretty good about
coming. You very rarely have to call
[40:03] that outside agencies so on and so
forth. But when the stars align, it
[40:07] happens. Just like when the stars align,
Jackson Township's not going to be
[40:10] available.
Okay? Here's Pope's not going to be
[40:13] available.
volunteer departments are not going to
[40:17] do everything.
But when it does matter and we are
[40:21] available and we can, we shouldn't be
told no.
[40:26] Regardless of an ordinance, regardless
of a pastime, regardless of anything
[40:30] other than the people in the community
that need the support to get to a
[40:34] facility to provide higher level of care
in a timely fashion
[40:40] doesn't matter. Like you said, Tony, it
doesn't matter ALS, BLS, doesn't matter.
[40:44] the justice of that patient that's
called 911 needing to get to the
[40:48] hospital
[snorts] and we're so I I I would just
[40:53] like to know what because we we went
down these rabbit holes of we didn't
[40:57] have the proper insurance and now we're
not ALS and then you know it's it's
[41:00] always a new hoop but we're not really
getting down to the actual
[41:05] facts of why you don't want Jackson
Township to assist and help when needed.
[41:10] » That's never been said. It hasn't been
said, but it's been implied.
[41:14] » No,
>> that's implied. When you say you don't
[41:16] have enough insurance,
>> we do that. You tell us no. And then,
[41:20] okay, we did that. Oh, well, you're not
ALS and only ALS matters.
[41:25] » And then I, you know, you continue to
say no. Then I don't know why. I I don't
[41:31] » might have a little bit to do with your
attitude.
[41:34] » I you can understand my rightfulness for
attitude because I'm thinking about the
[41:38] people of my township that are around.
What about the drugs?
[41:43] » Where do you drugs?
>> Where do you buy your drugs?
[41:46] » We are only allowed to do what we can do
for the state of Indiana. We don't
[41:49] require us to have drugs.
>> Yeah, they're BLS right now.
[41:53] » We're BLS transport service.
>> I don't but you
[41:56] » maybe EPI be about the only thing. Maybe
>> maybe
[41:59] » but if if you're even if you're only
BLS, you still have to administer some
[42:06] drugs. Am I not right? We can we can
administer some things but that's still
[42:11] that we can get that just like you guys
used to through Dr. Morgan through
[42:15] medical control.
>> Is that where you're signs off for us?
[42:20] [snorts]
>> Okay.
[42:22] » Just a little study I done just kind of
getting off the heated part. The last
[42:28] time we done a study on it in a
two-month time frame, 60 days, we
[42:32] requested surrounding counties for
standby 106 times in 60 days. That was
[42:38] the last study we done about a little
over a year ago.
[42:42] Just kind of give you an idea of why
third truck is needed because this all
[42:47] stems back around to
>> Oh, I 100% agree with you. Third truck
[42:51] needed if you live down in the neck of
the woods. I do.
[42:55] » It boils down.
>> You'd fully understand it.
[42:57] » I you know, I'd like to have satellite
stations.
[43:00] » Bingo. That That's one step at a time,
but bingo.
[43:03] » But the money's not there to do that.
>> Mhm. I mean there's it's not and that's
[43:08] not my fault,
>> you know. It's not
[43:11] » blaming you guys. That's the thing.
>> Well, that's the comes at the end of the
[43:14] day.
>> The two of us need to make sure somebody
[43:17] is responding to that scene.
>> Yeah.
[43:20] » But you know, whatever that means.
>> Hell, I'd love to have a station in
[43:23] Peton. I'd love to have station down
around Hardensburg, Campbellburg,
[43:29] you know, but
you know, it it's with, like I said,
[43:36] with without the without the the
proper funding,
[43:43] my hands are tied. There's not a lot I
can do. Well, I I see Jackson Township's
[43:48] Ambulance Service, I know you guys might
see it a different way, as a tool that
[43:52] we can use as needed.
And [snorts] if it takes an agreement
[43:57] for us to make up a mutual aid agreement
for them to be able to do such for us to
[44:02] dispatch them out or whatever, request
their assistance, that that's
[44:08] » that's beyond me.
>> That's somebody else's.
[44:11] » I'm still request,
but it still boils down to
[44:16] And we just had that conversation.
Mutual aid is not always available.
[44:21] » That's fine. But when they are
>> and when they are, I'm trying to use
[44:25] them when we need them.
>> Yeah.
[44:26] » But
>> And when mutual aid is requested and
[44:29] there's nobody, what do we do?
>> Runs stack up. We'll get to it when we
[44:35] can.
>> Right.
[44:36] » Well, fortunately, since I've been doing
the job I'm doing right now, that's not
[44:40] really happened other than once. And
when the two that stacked up was one was
[44:43] a stump toe and the other had a
toothache.
[44:45] » But they stack up.
>> But they did stack up. Those got
[44:48] » possibility.
>> Then those got triaged out and circled
[44:50] to the back of the call.
>> That's that's the only time I can I can
[44:54] ever remember since I've been doing this
the last five and a half, six years is
[44:58] that one time that they did stack up.
>> But we can go in the same realm here by
[45:01] saying that mutual aid service is
unreliable. You don't you don't know
[45:05] what. So it's the same thing could be
that on a daily basis you don't have
[45:08] enough ambulances and nobody's around to
provide that coverage it runs stack up.
[45:12] It's possibility.
>> I don't I don't like using the word
[45:15] unreliable. It's
>> Yeah, they're not available. They're not
[45:19] available.
>> They're they're not available. We can't
[45:22] count on them.
This is an ambulance board meeting and
[45:25] we're trying to explain to them what
we're needing to make sure the people in
[45:29] the county are covered. It's not a this
ain't a
[45:34] fire department meeting. This is EMS.
We're trying to explain what we need and
[45:38] what we need to take care of our
[snorts] people. That's what this is
[45:41] about.
>> As as far as using you guys, I will
[45:43] continue. Tony's even told me use them
when we have to and we try to.
[45:47] » Sure.
>> But you know,
[45:50] » but this is also this is also a
this also helps your cost
[45:58] » of an additional ambulance. It also
helps your cause because needing the
[46:01] assistance of outside agencies
that that that that could help your
[46:06] cause with this additional ambulance
because then it would potentially lessen
[46:11] the use of outside agencies.
But there's still going to be that time
[46:16] where like I said, you have three
ambulances, you're going to need four.
[46:19] And and Harrison County is not going to
be able to help you. Scott County is not
[46:23] either. Jackson's not either. It's just
the stars are going to align. what's
[46:27] going to happen, you know, and then lo
and behold, here's, you know, maybe
[46:32] Jackson Township down south has somebody
available
[46:37] like we did the other day.
And there's going to be times where
[46:40] we're
>> well what you want is a mutual aid
[46:42] agreement which would be beneficial to
everyone that then uh we're going to
[46:47] leave that up to the decision of the
director and the assistant deputy
[46:51] director for guidance and uh they come
to us with with this then uh we'll
[46:59] strongly uh consider it and and go from
there. But it's their call.
[47:04] » Y'all against that? I mean you're
calling him anyway, right?
[47:08] » Yeah. Put it on paper. Let's get it over
with. I'm not against it.
[47:11] » No, I'm not. Don't call me out. I've
told I've sat here many of times, Tony,
[47:16] and said, "I [clears throat] support
every one of these volunteer."
[47:18] » Oh, good. I'm That's what I'm asking.
>> Yeah.
[47:21] » Wait, wait, we're beating up.
>> I always have and I always will. I'm a
[47:25] volunteer fireman at heart. 42 years
worth. I support every one of these
[47:29] guys. I appreciate their help every time
they turn around.
[47:31] » I didn't mean to put say that, but
>> we support them. Tony supports them.
[47:35] Well, I mean, we need that third truck.
It's coming down. We need that third
[47:40] truck. I know money is the issue. Using
them is still not the solve all endall
[47:44] as Tony just said,
>> and we I 100% understand that. That's
[47:48] not what the the endgame goal here is.
>> Well, now I understand, but we're still
[47:53] in that same predicament. And I'm sure
they
[47:57] » will we'll consider this and like I say,
it's it's their call, but with their
[48:01] recommendation, we'll make the decision.
But uh
[48:06] » and if you come to this decision of
accepting it uh can we would please
[48:11] request that it be in writing.
>> All my
[48:14] » it has to be in writing. I'm not verbal
just here. Say
[48:19] » come shake my hand.
>> It would be it would be a mutual aid
[48:23] agreement everybody'd have to sign.
You'd have to show your proof of
[48:27] insurance and so on so forth and all
your certifications
[48:32] and all that. Well, you know all about
that, so
[48:34] » I do.
>> Well, good discussion. Thank you. Um,
[48:41] » Bobby, do you have anything to add to
that?
[48:44] » Well, I mean, we know it's a problem,
uh, financially and from the financial
[48:50] standpoint of it. Uh, you know, we've
we've threw this thing against the wall
[48:56] for several years now and
>> watch it sliding down every time.
[49:00] » Well, we haven't had, you know,
you can bring me a problem, but also
[49:05] bring me a solution. And nobody's been
able to bring the solution of how we
[49:10] fund it. Um, and that's the primary
issue here. We have a huge county.
[49:19] Coverage is the problem, but you know,
the money is just not there. And you
[49:26] know, until we get to that point, I
don't know that [clears throat]
[49:31] um you know, financially we can add a
third truck. That's that's just where
[49:38] we're at. And that's not the only way
that I could see that happening is we
[49:43] would have to pass some kind of public
safety tax to help fund it. Um,
[49:50] » and that's that would be half
>> and that that would not go over well
[49:53] with the taxpayer.
>> But when we get ready to present that,
[49:57] if you want to present that, we'll let
you present it. I mean, I you know, I
[50:02] it's just we've we've looked at this for
several years and
[50:08] » that's why I was proposing the runs for
or the trans. We're in a we're in a
[50:13] strange situation here with with our
county. You know, third largest county
[50:18] in Indiana. Uh I think we've got the
most miles of roads of all the counties
[50:24] in Indiana. So that puts us in a unique
position. Um and I understand there and
[50:31] we've talked about it. Um, but you know,
like I said, until we find that money or
[50:38] one of these trees out here on the lawn
starts producing dollar bills, you know,
[50:42] it's it's it's a tough animal to to
handle financially
[50:47] and and you see what it costs. You were
in budget hearings. I mean, it cost us a
[50:52] lot of money now, but we're going to
continue to do what we can do and do the
[50:57] best we can and these guys have done a
great job with that. And that's just
[51:01] that's just my thoughts on it right now
as far as that goes.
[51:05] » And I applaud you guys for a good job.
You all came a long ways. I know how
[51:10] many years have y'all actually we've had
our service back since 2014 is when it
[51:16] went back to the county.
>> So I was at the hospital prior it was at
[51:20] the hospital and it was three years with
Knox County. That's that's I mean since
[51:25] Knox County it's been 14
>> 14
[51:28] » 2014 is when the county took it back
over
[51:32] » but 12 years.
>> Yeah.
[51:35] » Like I said prior to that, you know, it
was at the hospital since it had went it
[51:40] was a private service up until like 1982
and then it went to the hospital. Uh and
[51:46] then that's when this uh all this other,
you know, went to the hospital. like I
[51:53] said that 83 uh and uh and and then the
hospital had it up until 2010 when St.
[51:59] event come in said we don't want animal
service no more county commissioners you
[52:03] all deal with it and that's what they
did and uh and they
[52:09] they didn't I mean that that back then
was an absolute circle jerk and I will
[52:14] call it that because that's what it was
and uh [snorts] that really offended me
[52:18] cuz I'd worked over there for almost 29
years and uh you know they just one
[52:24] night just decide hey you're done get
the hell out and that's what they kicked
[52:29] us out of midnight,
>> you know. So, I said that was, you know,
[52:31] that was a very bitter taste in a lot of
people's mouths. And uh it's been a
[52:38] problem. It's been issues ever since,
you know. I mean, when we were
[52:43] hospitalbased, I mean, we didn't have
the the problems, you know, that all the
[52:48] stuff. I mean, if we were still hospital
based, we wouldn't had to go through all
[52:50] this all this stuff with the DEA and all
that cuz the hospital-based services
[52:55] don't have to do that. private, you
know, other cert, you know, nonhospbased
[53:00] services, they got to do it. The
hospital base don't. So, uh, but, you
[53:06] know, it's just, it's just one of them
things. And, and one thing you got to
[53:10] look at, you can't heavily depend on on
a transfer scenario for a third truck
[53:18] concept because if you do, we're going
right back to where we was. Because if
[53:23] that truck is out of service,
we're right back to two trucks again.
[53:28] » Yeah. And I understand back to that. I
mean, that's why I ask you, we're not
[53:32] gaining nothing. I mean, we're really
not. And and and like I said, the
[53:36] reimbursement side of things on a
transfer,
[53:40] » we ain't making no money on them. We're
actually losing money. And and you know,
[53:44] you don't want to you don't want to do
that. and and and you know it's
[53:50] you know say it's
I mean I live I live here I have my
[53:57] whole life
and it it
[54:03] when they've got a transfer over there
and we can't do it that haunts me every
[54:10] freaking damn day it does because I sit
there and think you know I wish there
[54:16] was something I could do, but you know,
we can't do it. We we ain't we ain't got
[54:21] the we ain't got the trucks to do it do
that with. We don't have the operational
[54:26] stuff to do that with. And it does. And
it it's uh it's it's taking a it's
[54:32] taking a toll. And uh it's uh it's
getting to a point where, you know,
[54:39] something something's got to get in the
works. Something something's got to
[54:43] something's got something's got to jive.
Something's got to get in the works and
[54:47] uh that's what we're going to have to
do. But that uh
[54:55] Okay.
[55:01] » Here to help.
>> Good discussion.
[55:04] All right. I'll entertain a motion to
adjurnn.
[55:07] » I'll make that motion to adjurnn.
>> Second.
[55:10] » All those in favor say I. I.
>> I. Thank you.
[55:19] Okay,
[55:24] speaking of Any cost?