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afternoon like to call to order the

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public works Finance and Safety

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Committee meeting of March 16 2020 first

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item on the agenda is approval of the

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consent agenda and we have no items so

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it's not necessary and we have public

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input this is the time set aside for

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anyone to speak if they wish

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see no one here we'll move to item 4

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approval of the agenda we'll have a

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motion by Y and a second by read em Ski

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I think any discussion all those in

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favor signify by saying aye those

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opposed signify by saying nay motion

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carries

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item 5 is the regular agenda item a is

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council consideration of a bid award for

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the 2020 pavement management system

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schedule a milling and AC mat

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construction project 2002 - Donna kink

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in the amount of nine hundred

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forty-three thousand nine hundred thirty

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five dollars motion my long one and a

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second by Bueller and I'll ask public

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works director city engineer he thought

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I to tell us about this please

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absolutely thank you mayor the bit of

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war before the council this evening is

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related to the 2020 pavement management

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system schedule a this is our annual

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milling and asphalt overlay construction

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project we have a pretty good map of

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locations throughout town of streets

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that need to have this kind of surface

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treatment performed on them and a couple

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things to note with this bid the budget

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for this was in the amount of $900,000

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this bid did come in over budget at nine

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hundred forty three thousand nine thirty

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five but I'll also note too that a

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recent bid award for the crack seal and

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fog seal project came in approximately

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forty one thousand dollars under budget

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and fifteen thousand dollars of that

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awarded project are coming out of the

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airport fund for some airport crack

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sealing so long story short I think that

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we're in a good place to award this bid

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as far as the overall 212

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capital improvement plan a project fund

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that we have and in review these bids we

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looked at the pricing in the the asphalt

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out compared to last year the 2019

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project cost for asphalt on the millet

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overlay project was $79 a ton this year

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they've done ik has bit us a price of

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eighty two dollars and seventy five

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cents per ton since there's a little bit

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of a inflation in in this year's price

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which is expected from here a year we

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looked at also pricing within the region

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we found that you know the regional

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pricing can vary anywhere from seventy

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dollars a tonne all the way up to ninety

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dollars a tonne sometimes a little more

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depending on the type of work that

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you're doing and the scope of work that

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goes along with it so after reviewing

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all that staff was comfortable and

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continuing forward with this with this

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bid award and recommending so to the

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council all right thank you

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are there any questions come on you said you had a kind of a do you have

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a map of where it's gonna be done at

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we're located at for this year what's

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our focus area we do have a map and if

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my screen is not pulling up very well

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through the software today for some

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reason but yeah that's it one of the

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primary streets is 12th Avenue north

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just west of highway 81 there's a number

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of blocks here that B will be mill and

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overlaid another more prominent location

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is 11th Street East there's work to be

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done there as well you can see all the

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blue highlighted areas on the map here

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then there's several smaller segments

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out on the westerly in a town south of

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third Avenue east of 21st Street West

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several blocks in that neighborhood in

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that area of town that need to be

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milling overlaid and then there's a

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three block stretch of Broadway as well

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from 2nd Avenue South to 1st Avenue

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North

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the way these streets are selected are

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in part based on our pavement management

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system software that we've obtained back

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in 2017 in that software it provides

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recommendations for surface improvements

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to certain roads based on their pavement

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condition index that software is used by

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the assistant city engineer in

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combination with engineering staff in

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the streets superintendent along with

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real field knowledge you know what are

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the boots on the ground show as far as

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these street conditions are concerned

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and then that's how we prioritize and

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incorporate these into these different

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types of projects that we run thank you

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he's do you have any indication as to if

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they're gonna plan on on opening the

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plant earlier so we can get started

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earlier than we did last year being that

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the where there's been a more favorable

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yeah no that's a good question I

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personally have not had any

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communications or heard anything about

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that I don't know if the street

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superintendent has heard anything Rob

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Bane is in the crowd today no no last

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year we seemed a little bit later it was

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late last year there's no indication

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that it's gonna be early this years what

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Rob said we can hope cops will be lower

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heath when did we when did we open those

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bids for this particular project was let

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me double-check February 19th

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what what risk do we have either from

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our timing or from Dunning's

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cooperation or so resubmitting if we

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were to rebid this where I'm coming from

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is I don't feel that price increase is

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justified from $79 last year to eighty

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two and three-quarters this year I mean

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look what all prices have done it and

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that's a big driver for asphalt prices

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that what's the risk if we were to rebid

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this well you know there was those

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questions come up when you see

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activities like this across the nation

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you'll see in my RCA I noted the the oil

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pricing last year started out low at 46

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dollars a barrel and then increased

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throughout the year through the end of

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2019 up to 61 dollars a barrel well now

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in 2020 it's exact inverse of that we

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started out at 61 and now we're down to

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about $30 if not even less at this point

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now I can't tell you that the

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contractors bids they're not necessarily

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focusing on real time oil prices there are a lot of times paying for

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material that's already on hand are

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already bought on separate contracts

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under other pricing so if we were to

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push this off that may not benefit us if

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that is the case and these guys is

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circumstance which I assume it might be

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that they're basing their bid off of

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material that's been purchased by

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contract under a price that's may or may

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not be within the market today I guess I

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can't speak to that any other questions

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or comments all right I'll look for

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action all those in favor signify by

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saying aye those opposed signify by

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saying nay okay

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need a roll call okay just say yeah okay

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Albertson yes

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Bueller Hoyer is absent or is he okay

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absent hélène absent l'olam yes manty

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absent redeem ski yes

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Roby all right bill our know why motion

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carries thank you item B is council

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approval of a bid award for the

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wastewater treatment Administration

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Building project number 1917 to gray

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construction in the amount of three

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million five hundred ten thousand

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dollars Albertson and I would like Heath

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to tell us about this one as well thank

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you mayor this this particular bid is

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for the new structure out of the

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wastewater treatment facility

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on that complex as councils aware we are

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building a new administrative building

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out there I've gone through a lengthy

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design process and a process to obtain

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and srf funding through the state for

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this project and all the appropriate

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check offs for that funding have been

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gone through as far as this bid is

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concerned we are required to submit the

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bids to the state for their review and

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approval before we award the bid that

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process has all been taken care of and

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with help from our consultant HDR and

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we're at a point now where we're glad to

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report the bid in this case came in at

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just over three and a half million and

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the engineer's estimate of probable cost

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for engineering and construction was a

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little over five million now you'll see

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a subsequent action to this one we do

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have an engineering services contract on

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for tonight but the two of them combined

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is still well under that five million

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dollar budget that we had targeted and

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engineering and our consultant HDR and

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the wastewater staff Mike Berger

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wastewater superintendents here this

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evening are all more than comfortable in

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recommending this bid award to gray

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construction for the building of the

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admin building out the wastewater

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treatment facility all right thank you

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questions

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constable Harr heathyr Mike was was the

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and this is a pleasant surprise I mean

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compared to what the estimate was I mean

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it was the estimate just that much on

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the high side or were there things cut

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out that were in the original estimate

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that weren't bid at ultimately or just

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surprised at the big difference in

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numbers yeah I think that this my

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understanding from the consultant is

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this was just a reflection on the market

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at the time we've got our bid out was

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strong in our favor that these building

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contractors or we're looking for work at

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that time I would note that this bid was

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pretty comparable to the other couple

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two or three more that were received so

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it's not like this was an underlayer by

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any means it was a million or two off it

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was a fairly close bid between the next

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low bidders between the three that we

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received okay and okay we could borrow

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up to what

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million dollars for the project so we'll

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be borrowing some one lesson I assume is

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that the case yes we will continue to

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wade through that with of course one

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final project costs once everything's

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built and and put into consideration

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along with the engineering costs and

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work with christened closely on that we

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do also have a clarifier needs out there

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at the plant two that have to come from

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wastewater cash reserves as well so

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we're trying to keep all that in check

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as we wade through the loan amount okay

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thank you any other questions or

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comments all right I'll look for action

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all those in favor signify by saying aye

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all right there's a post signify by

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saying nay motion carries

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item C is council consideration of a

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professional services agreement for

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construction administration associated

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with the waste water treatment facility

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administration building

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with HDR Inc in the not to exceed amount

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of three hundred sixty nine thousand

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nine hundred sixty five dollars motion

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and a second by Bueller Heath tell us

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about this please yes thank you mayor as

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I mentioned this is related to the

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affirmation to action item that was

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discussed and this is for the

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construction and inspection services the

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construction engineering that's involved

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in a in a project like this as you can

276
00:14:24,850 --> 00:14:27,480
imagine it's pretty extensive to have

277
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,100
full-time engineering inspection

278
00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,470
services when required on a structure of

279
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:37,210
this magnitude and so that is a function

280
00:14:37,210 --> 00:14:39,370
that we can't perform in-house and have

281
00:14:39,370 --> 00:14:42,010
to consult out HDR being the design

282
00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:43,870
engineer on this project makes sense to

283
00:14:43,870 --> 00:14:45,010
plug them in as the construction

284
00:14:45,010 --> 00:14:47,680
engineer for inspection services and

285
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,930
they've provided a contract here with us

286
00:14:49,930 --> 00:14:52,000
just under three hundred and seventy

287
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,490
thousand dollars and again and that

288
00:14:54,490 --> 00:14:57,790
amount in combination to the recently

289
00:14:57,790 --> 00:14:59,680
discussed bid of a little over three and

290
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,470
a half million that total brings us to

291
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:04,780
three million eight hundred and seventy

292
00:15:04,780 --> 00:15:06,310
nine thousand nine hundred and sixty

293
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:09,430
five dollars for those two construction

294
00:15:09,430 --> 00:15:11,920
and engineering services again well

295
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,120
underneath our tart

296
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,620
five million dollars that we had on

297
00:15:14,620 --> 00:15:17,640
budget great thank you

298
00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:21,790
questions or comments real hard I should

299
00:15:21,790 --> 00:15:23,890
have asked this last I thought the last

300
00:15:23,890 --> 00:15:26,620
item relatives alone is that interest

301
00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:28,510
was that interest rate fixed when we

302
00:15:28,510 --> 00:15:33,640
could it was okay okay so that the I

303
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,560
mean interest rates I'm the fifth cut

304
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,660
the rate to zero and now so that won't

305
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:42,540
affect it won't affect ours learn okay

306
00:15:42,540 --> 00:15:47,380
fair question any other questions or

307
00:15:47,380 --> 00:15:49,930
comments all those in favor signify by

308
00:15:49,930 --> 00:15:52,270
saying aye all right as opposed signify

309
00:15:52,270 --> 00:15:56,320
by saying nay motion carries right item

310
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,220
D can I see the agenda here okay it's

311
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:03,130
still on there I thought that have been

312
00:16:03,130 --> 00:16:05,560
removed so item D is council approval of

313
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,760
resolution number 20-11 requesting the

314
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:12,370
d-o-t higher infrastructure design group

315
00:16:12,370 --> 00:16:14,560
to perform the 2020 bridge inspection

316
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,500
services and we're not ready for that is

317
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,410
that true no we are mayor and since it's

318
00:16:20,410 --> 00:16:21,790
still on here I can go ahead and quick

319
00:16:21,790 --> 00:16:23,470
touch on this one too before we get into

320
00:16:23,470 --> 00:16:24,910
the engineering design standards I was

321
00:16:24,910 --> 00:16:26,320
gonna just post pulling this to the

322
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,029
regular council meeting for discussion

323
00:16:28,029 --> 00:16:30,760
but we can discuss it here since it's on

324
00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,830
their council council it is on the full

325
00:16:32,830 --> 00:16:33,520
council agenda

326
00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:39,070
okay so I get a motion before we mostly

327
00:16:39,070 --> 00:16:43,570
l'olam and a second by Radomski all

328
00:16:43,570 --> 00:16:45,790
right Heath go ahead

329
00:16:45,790 --> 00:16:48,430
so this item relates to every year we

330
00:16:48,430 --> 00:16:50,529
have to pass a resolution and related to

331
00:16:50,529 --> 00:16:53,110
our relation to our bridge inspections

332
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:55,630
that are performed annually those annual

333
00:16:55,630 --> 00:16:58,089
bridge inspections come from funding

334
00:16:58,089 --> 00:17:00,130
from the Federal Highway Administration

335
00:17:00,130 --> 00:17:02,850
that's a minister down through the

336
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:07,120
state's do t South Dakota do T recently

337
00:17:07,120 --> 00:17:08,829
sent us a reminder that they need our

338
00:17:08,829 --> 00:17:11,650
annual consultant selection made they

339
00:17:11,650 --> 00:17:13,059
need that made by function of a

340
00:17:13,059 --> 00:17:16,350
resolution through the City Council and

341
00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:18,490
what we're proposing with staffs

342
00:17:18,490 --> 00:17:20,199
proposing to the council tonight is that

343
00:17:20,199 --> 00:17:24,400
we recommend idg infrastructure design

344
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,339
group as our consultant to performer

345
00:17:26,339 --> 00:17:29,490
bridge inspections for 2020 if you

346
00:17:29,490 --> 00:17:31,799
recall we have 10 structures that are on

347
00:17:31,799 --> 00:17:34,440
the inspection lists and those are

348
00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,870
alternated every other year we have a

349
00:17:36,870 --> 00:17:39,090
group of five each year that we perform

350
00:17:39,090 --> 00:17:48,210
the inspections on and I thought I had a

351
00:17:48,210 --> 00:17:49,710
map here show you but it's not showing

352
00:17:49,710 --> 00:17:52,350
up anyway so well we'd be performing the

353
00:17:52,350 --> 00:17:55,799
five bridge inspections that are due

354
00:17:55,799 --> 00:17:57,870
this year through the consultant through

355
00:17:57,870 --> 00:18:00,179
the do T's funding program and that's

356
00:18:00,179 --> 00:18:02,010
what the resolution helps accomplish to

357
00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,679
get that started all right thanks so

358
00:18:04,679 --> 00:18:06,840
this is an annual thing we do the last

359
00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:09,929
few years we've used infrastructure

360
00:18:09,929 --> 00:18:12,510
design group so they've they've been

361
00:18:12,510 --> 00:18:14,940
consistently reviewing these same

362
00:18:14,940 --> 00:18:17,669
bridges every year any questions or

363
00:18:17,669 --> 00:18:22,500
comments Cosmo no he does this go out to

364
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,220
a bit as well or do we just went in if

365
00:18:26,220 --> 00:18:27,600
so is there any other bids that were

366
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:29,880
submitted no that's a good question this

367
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,309
the d-o-t sends us a letter and on with

368
00:18:32,309 --> 00:18:34,140
that letters and attachment of approved

369
00:18:34,140 --> 00:18:36,390
consultants they simply ask the

370
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:37,740
community to select one of those

371
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:41,090
consultants off that list idg is one of

372
00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:43,620
over a dozen probably that are on that

373
00:18:43,620 --> 00:18:45,870
list there's state qualified consultants

374
00:18:45,870 --> 00:18:47,610
to perform bridge inspections under this

375
00:18:47,610 --> 00:18:50,610
funding program and of course within

376
00:18:50,610 --> 00:18:52,200
being a local it's been convenient to

377
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,760
have Vanessa perform that work for us

378
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,010
right here in Watertown the last couple

379
00:18:56,010 --> 00:18:58,890
I believe the last two inspections idg

380
00:18:58,890 --> 00:19:02,929
is performed did anyone else provide a

381
00:19:02,929 --> 00:19:05,789
bit no no okay

382
00:19:05,789 --> 00:19:08,880
we don't get a bid and Vanessa was doing

383
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,740
the inspection when she worked for Clark

384
00:19:10,740 --> 00:19:14,340
engineering and we had Clark engineering

385
00:19:14,340 --> 00:19:15,840
doing it at that time and then when she

386
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,870
switched over to IDG we switched with

387
00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:21,390
her to get the same inspector so it's

388
00:19:21,390 --> 00:19:26,669
consistent and that's an 80/20 cost

389
00:19:26,669 --> 00:19:28,380
share is that correct that we only pay

390
00:19:28,380 --> 00:19:31,380
20 percent of the cost and the d-o-t or

391
00:19:31,380 --> 00:19:33,419
the state pays 80 percent yes that's

392
00:19:33,419 --> 00:19:33,870
correct

393
00:19:33,870 --> 00:19:35,850
and the total cost for this inspection

394
00:19:35,850 --> 00:19:38,360
work as has been training a little under

395
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:39,960
$14,000

396
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,900
so not a huge expense but it is a cost

397
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,850
share between the state and ourselves we

398
00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:47,210
pay 20% of that of that overall bill

399
00:19:47,210 --> 00:19:50,310
councilman bill how are your correct any

400
00:19:50,310 --> 00:19:52,800
other questions all right all those in

401
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,900
favor signify by saying aye aye

402
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,780
as opposed signify by saying nay motion

403
00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:59,000
carries

404
00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,740
item E is council approval of resolution

405
00:20:01,740 --> 00:20:05,190
number 20-12 adopting the 2020

406
00:20:05,190 --> 00:20:06,900
engineering design standards for the

407
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:08,940
city of Watertown providing the

408
00:20:08,940 --> 00:20:11,160
technical design criteria to be required

409
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,050
for certain infrastructure improvements

410
00:20:13,050 --> 00:20:15,120
being proposed for construction within

411
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:19,530
the city a motion by a bill power and

412
00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:23,550
the second by l'olam and a long time in

413
00:20:23,550 --> 00:20:24,120
coming

414
00:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,380
so we'll ask heath to go ahead and tell

415
00:20:28,380 --> 00:20:47,940
us about this

416
00:20:47,950 --> 00:20:58,010
Thank You mayor I couldn't ask my

417
00:20:58,010 --> 00:20:59,960
esteemed colleague Dave Peterson to join

418
00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:05,420
me up here and I'd like to start out

419
00:21:05,420 --> 00:21:07,100
just by acknowledging the work that has

420
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:08,960
gone into this document that's that I'll

421
00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:12,290
present here this evening these are the

422
00:21:12,290 --> 00:21:14,120
draft engineering design standards for

423
00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:21,500
the city Watertown and the the work

424
00:21:21,500 --> 00:21:22,820
that's gone out of this initiated long

425
00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:25,010
before me coming to Watertown there's

426
00:21:25,010 --> 00:21:27,140
been I think at least two prior city

427
00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:32,230
engineers that's put work into these design standards along with

428
00:21:32,230 --> 00:21:35,330
assistant city engineering staff

429
00:21:35,330 --> 00:21:38,210
the mayor self is a former assistant

430
00:21:38,210 --> 00:21:40,820
city engineer my former colleague Kellen

431
00:21:40,820 --> 00:21:42,770
Paulson and his work that he's put into

432
00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:44,780
him and then as of recently a lot of the

433
00:21:44,780 --> 00:21:46,220
brunt of the work to wrap this up I'd

434
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:47,600
have to give the gentleman sitting asked

435
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:48,820
me here a lot of credit for that

436
00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:51,050
former city engineer himself Dave

437
00:21:51,050 --> 00:21:52,820
Peterson who's been helping fill in part

438
00:21:52,820 --> 00:21:55,850
time due to some vacancies and positions

439
00:21:55,850 --> 00:21:58,520
in the engineering office right now so

440
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:00,170
with all that effort and all that work I

441
00:22:00,170 --> 00:22:03,890
also want to express the interest that

442
00:22:03,890 --> 00:22:06,470
the development community has and seeing

443
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:09,490
he's adopted the development community

444
00:22:09,490 --> 00:22:14,570
has spoken recently through a committee

445
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:16,820
that they've established on how to help

446
00:22:16,820 --> 00:22:21,040
foster some proficient productive

447
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,990
development review processes this I

448
00:22:23,990 --> 00:22:25,400
think was apparent to them was one of

449
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,810
the missing links it was needed for the

450
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:30,610
city water tone which I agree with to

451
00:22:30,610 --> 00:22:33,350
implement some standards that give their

452
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:35,180
consultant their design engineers a

453
00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:36,800
standard to go by when they're compiling

454
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,000
their plans and specifications for their developments so with all that

455
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,180
being said I think there's a long waited

456
00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:45,260
document here that we've got before the

457
00:22:45,260 --> 00:22:47,480
council tonight and I've got a good

458
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,520
handful of slides here some of these

459
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,140
sections and the design standards I'll

460
00:22:51,140 --> 00:22:53,120
kind of breeze through and a couple of

461
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,440
them of focus on a little more heavily

462
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,350
because of the the stature of them as

463
00:22:57,350 --> 00:23:00,440
far as how they stand out and all the

464
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,500
effect and some of the basic

465
00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:05,090
construction components for some of the

466
00:23:05,090 --> 00:23:10,580
developments that we see so when we talk

467
00:23:10,580 --> 00:23:11,960
about engineering design standards the

468
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,520
first thing we look at and references

469
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,740
are ordinances and I just wanted to

470
00:23:15,740 --> 00:23:18,230
point this out that our city ordinances

471
00:23:18,230 --> 00:23:20,180
do currently reference our engineering

472
00:23:20,180 --> 00:23:22,130
design standards in a couple of places

473
00:23:22,130 --> 00:23:24,290
the two places I want to site

474
00:23:24,290 --> 00:23:27,050
specifically rate relate to the use of

475
00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:29,270
design standards and then also the

476
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:31,130
reference to a professional licensed

477
00:23:31,130 --> 00:23:34,300
engineer to perform the design work

478
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:38,120
chapter 24 in the city code is probably

479
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:41,690
the most related section of city code in

480
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:44,360
relation to how it ties into the use of

481
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:45,710
these engineering design standards

482
00:23:45,710 --> 00:23:48,020
chapter 24 are the subdivision

483
00:23:48,020 --> 00:23:50,330
regulations for the city and it gets

484
00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:54,040
into detail about how land is subdivided

485
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,170
how it becomes plaited how it what it

486
00:23:57,170 --> 00:23:58,790
takes to get a building rights on that

487
00:23:58,790 --> 00:24:01,280
land and all the sequencing and

488
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,440
processes that have to go through one of

489
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,090
the components in that development

490
00:24:05,090 --> 00:24:08,510
process is to submit and have approval

491
00:24:08,510 --> 00:24:11,000
of construction plans that's really the

492
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,620
heart of what these engineering design

493
00:24:12,620 --> 00:24:14,840
standards do they help steer the design

494
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,630
that goes into those construction plans

495
00:24:16,630 --> 00:24:20,000
for public infrastructure that's going

496
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,560
to be built on any subdivision or

497
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,050
development for the city water talent so

498
00:24:24,050 --> 00:24:25,430
you see a couple sections there in

499
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:26,780
chapter 24 that reference the

500
00:24:26,780 --> 00:24:29,690
engineering design standards already now

501
00:24:29,690 --> 00:24:31,070
what we've been doing since these aren't

502
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:32,690
formally adopted yet I've just been

503
00:24:32,690 --> 00:24:35,680
using commonplace engineering standards

504
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,130
which as you can imagine helps it

505
00:24:40,130 --> 00:24:41,870
doesn't help the review process it kind

506
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:44,660
of enters it because one common

507
00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:46,310
engineering practice that I'm a

508
00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:47,990
reference might not be the same on the

509
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:49,820
last City Engineer referenced which

510
00:24:49,820 --> 00:24:51,140
might not be the same one the design

511
00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:53,600
engineer is referencing so you can see

512
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,430
there became some disconnect along the

513
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:57,020
way which causes confusion and

514
00:24:57,020 --> 00:24:58,970
frustration through the design review

515
00:24:58,970 --> 00:25:02,750
and permitting process now once we adopt

516
00:25:02,750 --> 00:25:05,690
our own standards there that are

517
00:25:05,690 --> 00:25:07,730
comprehensively summarizing a lot of

518
00:25:07,730 --> 00:25:10,070
these regulations that puts everybody in

519
00:25:10,070 --> 00:25:11,780
the same level playing field and

520
00:25:11,780 --> 00:25:13,610
everybody knows what to expect on the

521
00:25:13,610 --> 00:25:14,280
cement

522
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,200
through the review and through the

523
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,780
construction phases so it'll be great a

524
00:25:18,780 --> 00:25:22,830
great asset for the community these are

525
00:25:22,830 --> 00:25:25,140
the 15 sections that they're that make

526
00:25:25,140 --> 00:25:29,120
up the engineering design standards they

527
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:31,380
some of these are very short only a

528
00:25:31,380 --> 00:25:32,640
couple pages long

529
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,040
some get to be a little bit more lengthy

530
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,710
up to I think maybe 20 pages or more in

531
00:25:37,710 --> 00:25:40,860
some of these sections and some of them

532
00:25:40,860 --> 00:25:42,900
refer to existing design standards that

533
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:44,669
we already have adopted like the

534
00:25:44,669 --> 00:25:47,040
stormwater best management practices and

535
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,610
some refer to our sister agency over at

536
00:25:50,610 --> 00:25:52,410
the Watertown municipal utilities who

537
00:25:52,410 --> 00:25:54,540
regulates the design of our water

538
00:25:54,540 --> 00:25:57,540
systems for example so I'll breeze

539
00:25:57,540 --> 00:26:00,510
through these sections just by title and

540
00:26:00,510 --> 00:26:02,460
I'll pull out some highlights as we go

541
00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:05,850
here but chapter 1 is generally just

542
00:26:05,850 --> 00:26:08,400
kind of your typical kickoff information

543
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,710
as far as what these standards are doing

544
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:12,960
what they're trying to accomplish who

545
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,780
they're applicable to who has the

546
00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:18,030
enforcement responsibilities I will note

547
00:26:18,030 --> 00:26:20,549
that the City Engineer is designated as

548
00:26:20,549 --> 00:26:22,429
the enforcement responsibility of these

549
00:26:22,429 --> 00:26:24,690
design standards for the cities of

550
00:26:24,690 --> 00:26:28,559
Watertown as it is currently drafted it

551
00:26:28,559 --> 00:26:30,210
touches on the necessity for review

552
00:26:30,210 --> 00:26:34,169
process prior approvals are not negated

553
00:26:34,169 --> 00:26:36,179
by the adoption of these standards so if

554
00:26:36,179 --> 00:26:37,650
they are adopted tonight the regular

555
00:26:37,650 --> 00:26:39,570
council meeting that doesn't mean that

556
00:26:39,570 --> 00:26:41,040
we negate all permits that we just

557
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,280
issued yesterday those are all still

558
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,860
withstanding and then it talks about the

559
00:26:46,860 --> 00:26:49,070
relationship with other standards

560
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:51,450
variances that's important to note as

561
00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:53,610
well to have a variance from any of

562
00:26:53,610 --> 00:26:56,220
these design standards and I keep

563
00:26:56,220 --> 00:26:57,750
pointing over here but I'm referencing a

564
00:26:57,750 --> 00:26:59,370
printout version of them of a rough

565
00:26:59,370 --> 00:27:04,440
draft but any variances to this document

566
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,150
have to be submitted in writing and

567
00:27:06,150 --> 00:27:07,679
justified in writing to the city

568
00:27:07,679 --> 00:27:09,020
engineer for their review and

569
00:27:09,020 --> 00:27:11,640
determination of whether it's something

570
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,549
that can be approved or not and you'll

571
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:17,100
see that fairly common you know when it

572
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,929
comes to variances on other documents

573
00:27:18,929 --> 00:27:20,820
they sometimes go to different boards

574
00:27:20,820 --> 00:27:22,350
sometimes all the way to the level of

575
00:27:22,350 --> 00:27:24,090
City Council when it comes to a

576
00:27:24,090 --> 00:27:25,620
technical document like this most

577
00:27:25,620 --> 00:27:27,179
communities will leave that very in

578
00:27:27,179 --> 00:27:27,450
Surrey

579
00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:29,330
you on the shoulder of the city engineer

580
00:27:29,330 --> 00:27:31,679
just because of the technical nature of

581
00:27:31,679 --> 00:27:37,049
it some it'll review and approval

582
00:27:37,049 --> 00:27:41,669
procedures in chapter 2 this talks about

583
00:27:41,669 --> 00:27:44,159
the reports and plans that are required

584
00:27:44,159 --> 00:27:47,580
for review and how those get approved

585
00:27:47,580 --> 00:27:50,850
and then the revision process so if the

586
00:27:50,850 --> 00:27:53,519
plans and reports come in and we make

587
00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:57,120
red line comments on them red lines a

588
00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:58,919
common nomenclature that we use in our

589
00:27:58,919 --> 00:28:01,380
review process they get red line that

590
00:28:01,380 --> 00:28:03,510
gets turned back to the consultant or

591
00:28:03,510 --> 00:28:07,200
their agent and then a final plan is

592
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,809
eventually turned in reviewed and a okay

593
00:28:09,809 --> 00:28:12,450
good to go and gets noted as such that

594
00:28:12,450 --> 00:28:14,370
is the final approved construction set

595
00:28:14,370 --> 00:28:17,220
and should then in theory be the plan

596
00:28:17,220 --> 00:28:19,110
set that the contractor is using in the

597
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:23,470
field so there's not discrepancy there

598
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,899
permit procedures and requirements these

599
00:28:27,899 --> 00:28:29,850
upfront sections I want to again remind

600
00:28:29,850 --> 00:28:32,100
you that these these fall in line with

601
00:28:32,100 --> 00:28:33,510
one of the things Dave did a great job

602
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:35,330
with along with other staff

603
00:28:35,330 --> 00:28:38,789
Marcion and brandy and planning and

604
00:28:38,789 --> 00:28:40,860
engineering wanted to make sure that

605
00:28:40,860 --> 00:28:42,779
whatever we're stating in here is either

606
00:28:42,779 --> 00:28:45,210
referencing chapter 24 the city

607
00:28:45,210 --> 00:28:46,740
ordinances the subdivision regulations

608
00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:50,940
or stating the exact same things we were

609
00:28:50,940 --> 00:28:52,860
consistent and so some of these upfront

610
00:28:52,860 --> 00:28:54,419
sections like this on the permit

611
00:28:54,419 --> 00:28:56,429
procedures and requirements this

612
00:28:56,429 --> 00:28:58,710
outlines some of the different permits

613
00:28:58,710 --> 00:29:01,710
that we require to construct certain

614
00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:04,049
things throughout the community and then

615
00:29:04,049 --> 00:29:06,870
talks about the bonding that's required

616
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:08,639
for the contractors to perform that work

617
00:29:08,639 --> 00:29:11,460
and the different construction

618
00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:14,010
specifications and traffic control that

619
00:29:14,010 --> 00:29:17,450
they need to be mindful of and other

620
00:29:17,450 --> 00:29:19,889
responsibilities when constructing

621
00:29:19,889 --> 00:29:24,690
things within the city chapter 4 talks

622
00:29:24,690 --> 00:29:27,600
about utility easements and utility

623
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,380
locations

624
00:29:28,380 --> 00:29:30,840
it requires that all public utilities be

625
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,100
in an easement if they're not already

626
00:29:32,100 --> 00:29:33,419
located within the right-of-way

627
00:29:33,419 --> 00:29:36,210
it identifies a minimum width of those

628
00:29:36,210 --> 00:29:37,740
easements depending on the type of

629
00:29:37,740 --> 00:29:40,430
utility it is

630
00:29:40,430 --> 00:29:42,960
you know our common utilities that we

631
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:47,420
see are drainage easements we have

632
00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:49,350
sometimes we'll have water line

633
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:50,940
easements that run outside the right

634
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:53,490
away sanitary sewer easements that again

635
00:29:53,490 --> 00:29:56,130
run outside the right away but this

636
00:29:56,130 --> 00:30:02,610
section really covers a lot of those components chapter five we get

637
00:30:02,610 --> 00:30:05,100
into Street access and parking lot

638
00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:07,260
criteria this is one will focus a little

639
00:30:07,260 --> 00:30:08,670
bit on it I've got a couple take out

640
00:30:08,670 --> 00:30:10,590
graphs from the chapter that we'll talk

641
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:13,740
about the first item in chapter 5 talks

642
00:30:13,740 --> 00:30:15,930
about traffic studies we do not require

643
00:30:15,930 --> 00:30:18,600
a blanket traffic study for all

644
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,780
development in in Watertown I don't

645
00:30:21,780 --> 00:30:23,550
think we've required one for any

646
00:30:23,550 --> 00:30:25,980
developments since I've been here what

647
00:30:25,980 --> 00:30:28,320
this the adoption of these standards

648
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,970
will do is it gives a threshold on when

649
00:30:29,970 --> 00:30:32,910
a traffic study will be required and if

650
00:30:32,910 --> 00:30:34,560
you recall I think there was right

651
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,290
before I started here in Watertown

652
00:30:37,290 --> 00:30:39,990
there was approvals for apartment

653
00:30:39,990 --> 00:30:44,190
complex over on 19th 19th Street and a

654
00:30:44,190 --> 00:30:45,660
lot of discussion about the traffic

655
00:30:45,660 --> 00:30:47,760
impact from that apartment complex these

656
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,650
standards will now give us reference to

657
00:30:49,650 --> 00:30:52,350
some criteria to use when to trigger the

658
00:30:52,350 --> 00:30:55,140
developer to submit a traffic impact

659
00:30:55,140 --> 00:30:58,470
analysis to us to make sure that the

660
00:30:58,470 --> 00:30:59,340
traffic is handled appropriately

661
00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:01,050
according to the findings in that

662
00:31:01,050 --> 00:31:03,660
traffic impact study so that's one of

663
00:31:03,660 --> 00:31:05,070
the components I wanted to point out of

664
00:31:05,070 --> 00:31:07,350
this section I would just like to add

665
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:10,110
that development would not have

666
00:31:10,110 --> 00:31:13,050
triggered a traffic study but it would

667
00:31:13,050 --> 00:31:17,610
have come really close so it's good to

668
00:31:17,610 --> 00:31:22,740
have a cut-off point so we can speak

669
00:31:22,740 --> 00:31:26,090
authoritative Lee and this is a common

670
00:31:26,090 --> 00:31:28,560
design standard used by other

671
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,500
communities it is and it's typically

672
00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:35,780
triggered by your peak hour factor of

673
00:31:35,780 --> 00:31:38,580
vehicles that are accessing your

674
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:43,050
property either a daily traffic count or

675
00:31:43,050 --> 00:31:44,610
a peak hour traffic count is usually

676
00:31:44,610 --> 00:31:46,710
what will be used to trigger that and

677
00:31:46,710 --> 00:31:47,940
that's based of course on the

678
00:31:47,940 --> 00:31:50,310
anticipated use of that land whether it

679
00:31:50,310 --> 00:31:53,040
be high density residential commercial

680
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,410
just real things of that nature access

681
00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:57,420
control that's an access design that's

682
00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:58,740
the one I wanted to get into here with

683
00:31:58,740 --> 00:32:01,590
these next two diagrams here I have

684
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:06,480
table 5.1 from the design standards this

685
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,250
table correlates directly and I'll flip

686
00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:09,930
back before between these two I

687
00:32:09,930 --> 00:32:13,350
apologize for the hazy appearance of

688
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:17,210
Figure 5.1 but this is essentially

689
00:32:17,210 --> 00:32:20,160
diagram of an intersection if you can

690
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,200
imagine the street being out here on the

691
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,570
far right side of this diagram and then

692
00:32:24,570 --> 00:32:27,420
on the bottom of it and these are just

693
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:29,430
multitude of configurations of

694
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:31,380
approaches or accesses out onto those

695
00:32:31,380 --> 00:32:33,870
streets and in here you have several

696
00:32:33,870 --> 00:32:37,280
variables that are noted that are then

697
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:41,130
given minimum numbers or maximum numbers

698
00:32:41,130 --> 00:32:43,710
on this chart one of them that I

699
00:32:43,710 --> 00:32:47,280
highlighted here is related to driveway

700
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:50,390
dimensions and the maximum allowable

701
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:53,310
residential driveway on either a local

702
00:32:53,310 --> 00:32:56,190
or collector Street as you see in the

703
00:32:56,190 --> 00:32:58,410
draft we have 36 feet as a maximum

704
00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:03,360
allowed now it's important to note when

705
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,060
you set that maximum allowed it's not

706
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:07,800
always the default that a home builder

707
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,230
will go to for instance if they're

708
00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:12,570
building a two stall garage it's likely

709
00:33:12,570 --> 00:33:14,190
they're not gonna want to put in a 36

710
00:33:14,190 --> 00:33:16,950
foot wide driveway but they could and it

711
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:20,940
is the maximum allowed so it does open

712
00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:22,380
the door for those things to happen

713
00:33:22,380 --> 00:33:24,660
where they may put in a little wider

714
00:33:24,660 --> 00:33:26,460
driveway than was necessary for the

715
00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:29,880
garage that is trying to accommodate I

716
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,520
can tell you that other communities use

717
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,490
anywhere from 30 to up to 36

718
00:33:35,490 --> 00:33:38,790
I usually don't see much more over 36

719
00:33:38,790 --> 00:33:40,530
for residents with driveway widths as

720
00:33:40,530 --> 00:33:46,050
far as common numbers and I just want to

721
00:33:46,050 --> 00:33:48,360
touch on that one because what a 36 foot

722
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:49,770
wide driveway does do is it helps

723
00:33:49,770 --> 00:33:52,560
accommodate three-stall garage and so if

724
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,380
you have residential single-family

725
00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:57,480
subdivision being built out and a lot of

726
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,480
three stall garage configurations

727
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,030
this helps to accommodate that in the in

728
00:34:03,030 --> 00:34:05,639
the contractors the home builders

729
00:34:05,639 --> 00:34:07,399
perspective it makes for an easy

730
00:34:07,399 --> 00:34:10,109
straight-line drive way up to that

731
00:34:10,109 --> 00:34:11,730
garage now

732
00:34:11,730 --> 00:34:13,859
in my previous community I've talked

733
00:34:13,859 --> 00:34:15,899
about this 36 feet because that's what

734
00:34:15,899 --> 00:34:18,299
we had adopted there and how if you were

735
00:34:18,299 --> 00:34:23,339
to lessen it to say 32 or 34 you can

736
00:34:23,339 --> 00:34:24,859
still accommodate for a wider

737
00:34:24,859 --> 00:34:26,819
three-stall garage you just have to

738
00:34:26,819 --> 00:34:29,220
taper out that driveway on the property

739
00:34:29,220 --> 00:34:31,679
once you get through the right away you

740
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:33,450
widen that driveway out and then you

741
00:34:33,450 --> 00:34:35,669
have your 36 feet to approach into that

742
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:38,099
third stall so that's another thing you

743
00:34:38,099 --> 00:34:39,569
know that the council could contemplate

744
00:34:39,569 --> 00:34:42,750
here in this scenario if we didn't feel

745
00:34:42,750 --> 00:34:44,970
that 36 feet was appropriate another

746
00:34:44,970 --> 00:34:48,510
thing to note the wider this is like 36

747
00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:50,250
feet I wouldn't recommend going in wider

748
00:34:50,250 --> 00:34:54,179
but the wider this number is the less on

749
00:34:54,179 --> 00:34:56,519
street parking you presumably have in a

750
00:34:56,519 --> 00:34:58,920
residential subdivision because it's

751
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:02,960
taken up by driveway access curb cuts

752
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,670
I'm wondering if this conflicts with our

753
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:10,109
r1c section of ordinance that we

754
00:35:10,109 --> 00:35:12,059
recently passed which has 50-foot Lots

755
00:35:12,059 --> 00:35:16,170
and you if you allow a 36 foot wide

756
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:18,359
driveway on a 50 foot lot there's not

757
00:35:18,359 --> 00:35:20,690
enough room for an on street parking

758
00:35:20,690 --> 00:35:24,390
slot and I believe we addressed that and

759
00:35:24,390 --> 00:35:27,329
limited that we might want to put a note

760
00:35:27,329 --> 00:35:30,420
that it isn't automatic that you would

761
00:35:30,420 --> 00:35:33,539
get 36 feet that that would be the

762
00:35:33,539 --> 00:35:37,650
maximum but it might be the city

763
00:35:37,650 --> 00:35:41,339
engineer would say less than that if you

764
00:35:41,339 --> 00:35:45,269
have a lot that is smaller or you know

765
00:35:45,269 --> 00:35:48,660
whatever the situation is so we do have

766
00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:51,359
quite a few Lots in our community that

767
00:35:51,359 --> 00:35:59,730
are less than 75 feet which I mean a 50

768
00:35:59,730 --> 00:36:02,809
foot lot and a 36 foot wide driveway is

769
00:36:02,809 --> 00:36:05,009
telling the neighborhood there's no on

770
00:36:05,009 --> 00:36:10,319
street parking our to a and yes our to a

771
00:36:10,319 --> 00:36:15,710
as a 50 foot lot with minimum so I think

772
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:18,140
you want to make sure that that isn't

773
00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:22,400
construed to mean that anyone can have

774
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,430
36 feet of driveway width and another

775
00:36:25,430 --> 00:36:26,990
thing I would like to point out is that

776
00:36:26,990 --> 00:36:31,430
we have very firmly held to not allowing

777
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:34,160
driveways on collectors and arterials

778
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:40,280
and for residences and this so states

779
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:42,619
that when they're there they have a

780
00:36:42,619 --> 00:36:47,810
maximum of 36 feet that I don't want to

781
00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:50,810
give the impression that you can plant a

782
00:36:50,810 --> 00:36:54,320
lot with a 36 foot wide driveway on a

783
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,599
collector route because that goes

784
00:36:56,599 --> 00:37:01,180
against what we've been practicing for

785
00:37:01,180 --> 00:37:07,130
maybe a couple decades so we say it

786
00:37:07,130 --> 00:37:09,990
somewhere I think that driveways are

787
00:37:09,990 --> 00:37:13,890
[Music]

788
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:19,160
frowned upon on collectors somewhere not

789
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,599
sure where would that be in our

790
00:37:20,599 --> 00:37:24,320
subdivision ordinance no access directly

791
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,790
on to collect your routes yeah no that's

792
00:37:28,790 --> 00:37:30,020
a good question mayor I don't know if

793
00:37:30,020 --> 00:37:32,270
I've come across that language in any of

794
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:34,070
our other regulations as far as I know

795
00:37:34,070 --> 00:37:35,810
that that's been discussion since I've

796
00:37:35,810 --> 00:37:39,680
been here we've been astute to you know

797
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,900
making sure that those residential

798
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:44,300
accesses are limited or prohibited on

799
00:37:44,300 --> 00:37:49,330
collector routes I do know at times

800
00:37:49,330 --> 00:37:51,500
particularly in existing circumstances

801
00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:55,280
there are obviously residential lots but

802
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:56,869
collector routes throughout our

803
00:37:56,869 --> 00:38:02,359
community and I also know in research

804
00:38:02,359 --> 00:38:05,359
that the community who these regulations

805
00:38:05,359 --> 00:38:07,250
are modeled after I should have noted

806
00:38:07,250 --> 00:38:09,230
that my introduction here but the city

807
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:11,089
of Brandon utilizes these regulations

808
00:38:11,089 --> 00:38:15,470
and I think they actually narrowed their

809
00:38:15,470 --> 00:38:18,730
residential collector down to 30 feet

810
00:38:18,730 --> 00:38:20,900
residential driveway on a collector down

811
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:22,820
to 30 feet but did still have a number

812
00:38:22,820 --> 00:38:25,580
in there for that use if it were to

813
00:38:25,580 --> 00:38:32,230
occur well I want to just put out a think we want

814
00:38:32,230 --> 00:38:36,010
to make sure that we're consistent we

815
00:38:36,010 --> 00:38:37,720
don't want to mislead people into

816
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:39,369
believing that because there's a

817
00:38:39,369 --> 00:38:41,559
driveway dimension given on collectors

818
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:44,140
in this table that that implies that

819
00:38:44,140 --> 00:38:48,069
they get to have access on to collectors

820
00:38:48,069 --> 00:38:49,799
I think this somewhere in this section

821
00:38:49,799 --> 00:38:54,069
should say that we don't want driveways

822
00:38:54,069 --> 00:38:56,319
we'd prefer not to have driveways

823
00:38:56,319 --> 00:38:59,559
directly going on to collect routes

824
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,170
it's like 19th Street north the north

825
00:39:02,170 --> 00:39:04,829
part of 19th Street which was plaited

826
00:39:04,829 --> 00:39:09,069
after the 1980s doesn't have direct

827
00:39:09,069 --> 00:39:12,849
access from driveways and the southern

828
00:39:12,849 --> 00:39:15,780
part of it which is older does have some

829
00:39:15,780 --> 00:39:18,490
and that has been a bone of contention

830
00:39:18,490 --> 00:39:22,630
for people wanting to develop in there

831
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:24,250
that's something we can handle with new

832
00:39:24,250 --> 00:39:27,309
subdivisions within our development

833
00:39:27,309 --> 00:39:30,460
agreements and that sort of thing but be

834
00:39:30,460 --> 00:39:35,049
nice to be consistent so we're I just

835
00:39:35,049 --> 00:39:37,359
want to echo what Sara said and I was

836
00:39:37,359 --> 00:39:39,069
gonna use 19th Street as an example

837
00:39:39,069 --> 00:39:41,710
exactly for that reason the southern

838
00:39:41,710 --> 00:39:43,000
portion of that there's a lot of

839
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:44,680
approaches and cutouts in there and

840
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,119
there's not that many on the north part

841
00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:48,369
I don't think anybody maybe at the time

842
00:39:48,369 --> 00:39:50,410
understood 19 could be such a busy

843
00:39:50,410 --> 00:39:52,480
street but as we plan future collectors

844
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,970
let's not make that mistake again let's

845
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:57,250
make sure that that collector is serves

846
00:39:57,250 --> 00:39:59,109
that purpose to drive traffic and we

847
00:39:59,109 --> 00:40:01,569
keep those driveway cutouts to a minimum

848
00:40:01,569 --> 00:40:06,609
I agree with that yeah thank you Mary

849
00:40:06,609 --> 00:40:09,099
do we have a minimum frontage do because

850
00:40:09,099 --> 00:40:11,319
if you should we said a minimum frontage

851
00:40:11,319 --> 00:40:14,670
amount the width for a 36 foot driveway

852
00:40:14,670 --> 00:40:18,309
you know maybe that number 75 feet but

853
00:40:18,309 --> 00:40:19,180
that's something you may want to

854
00:40:19,180 --> 00:40:20,950
consider if we haven't done that already

855
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:27,030
and our r1c code in the title 21 does

856
00:40:27,030 --> 00:40:31,329
talk about that that you in a way that

857
00:40:31,329 --> 00:40:33,670
you can have a driveway with that allows

858
00:40:33,670 --> 00:40:38,290
for at least 120 foot my parking space

859
00:40:38,290 --> 00:40:41,930
per lot I think is how that's listed

860
00:40:41,930 --> 00:40:46,609
so if you have a big r1c lot that gives

861
00:40:46,609 --> 00:40:49,670
you enough space to have an on street

862
00:40:49,670 --> 00:40:53,059
parking spot then you can have a wider

863
00:40:53,059 --> 00:40:55,760
driveway as long as you're leaving

864
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:58,490
enough space so that we still have on

865
00:40:58,490 --> 00:41:00,950
street parking so I think we went

866
00:41:00,950 --> 00:41:04,309
through that pretty carefully when we

867
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:09,470
proposed the r1c zone because a 50-foot

868
00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:12,680
lot is a very small narrow lot and we

869
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,140
didn't want to have subdivisions without

870
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,230
on street parking in residential areas

871
00:41:17,230 --> 00:41:19,819
so that would be a good place to

872
00:41:19,819 --> 00:41:22,430
reference how to word this for the

873
00:41:22,430 --> 00:41:24,170
future I mean I think it's great that

874
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:27,430
we're getting this out there and we can

875
00:41:27,430 --> 00:41:31,280
make modifications anytime we want to

876
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,700
make it better yeah and I think those

877
00:41:34,700 --> 00:41:36,530
are a couple simple ones that actually

878
00:41:36,530 --> 00:41:38,780
you know we could make upon the adoption

879
00:41:38,780 --> 00:41:41,210
of this is to put a note in here to add

880
00:41:41,210 --> 00:41:45,140
clarity to the 36-foot in a collector or

881
00:41:45,140 --> 00:41:47,030
whatever width and a collector on

882
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:51,680
residential areas you know those are to

883
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:53,119
be determined at the discretion of the

884
00:41:53,119 --> 00:41:55,010
city engineer and that future

885
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:56,660
development of course our goal would be

886
00:41:56,660 --> 00:41:57,920
and we could put a note here to that

887
00:41:57,920 --> 00:41:59,180
extent that our goal would be that

888
00:41:59,180 --> 00:42:02,599
future development would prohibit or

889
00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:04,730
drastically minimize unless there's an

890
00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:07,579
extreme case prohibit any residential

891
00:42:07,579 --> 00:42:09,799
access onto collect or else we don't end

892
00:42:09,799 --> 00:42:12,170
up with 19th Street issues yes I mean we

893
00:42:12,170 --> 00:42:13,970
have lots of collector routes in our

894
00:42:13,970 --> 00:42:16,430
city where the lots of jacent have no

895
00:42:16,430 --> 00:42:18,349
other choice but together driveway it

896
00:42:18,349 --> 00:42:20,599
right onto that collector out so we need

897
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:23,030
to have a standard but we just don't

898
00:42:23,030 --> 00:42:25,160
want people to take away from the

899
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,410
standard that that's permission if

900
00:42:27,410 --> 00:42:32,119
there's an alternative sorry it didn't

901
00:42:32,119 --> 00:42:33,560
mean a railroad

902
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:37,410
as of now are we okay with that 36 in

903
00:42:37,410 --> 00:42:40,680
this in this document as it stands and

904
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,040
are there any proposed reduction to that

905
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,680
number here this evening

906
00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:52,740
I like Bruce's idea I just don't want to

907
00:42:52,740 --> 00:42:54,180
see lots where it's all the right way

908
00:42:54,180 --> 00:43:01,650
there's no parking in the street so your

909
00:43:01,650 --> 00:43:04,950
proposal man would be 56 feet then if

910
00:43:04,950 --> 00:43:06,660
you needed an additional 20 feet of

911
00:43:06,660 --> 00:43:08,820
space what you're saying I would say

912
00:43:08,820 --> 00:43:11,820
that instead of saying a width that

913
00:43:11,820 --> 00:43:14,970
there has to be at least 20 feet or

914
00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:16,590
whatever we said in the Arwen see I

915
00:43:16,590 --> 00:43:18,180
could probably pull it up can you pull

916
00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:22,560
it up to allow for at least one on

917
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:28,530
street parking slot per lot and 20 feet

918
00:43:28,530 --> 00:43:33,510
is I mean that's a pretty skinny lot of

919
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:37,050
vehicles can't fit in a 20-foot slot

920
00:43:37,050 --> 00:43:40,530
that's a bare minimum if if there's

921
00:43:40,530 --> 00:43:42,690
language in that r1c mayor the Dave and

922
00:43:42,690 --> 00:43:43,950
I could reference we could incorporate

923
00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:51,330
that as an amendment here why don't we

924
00:43:51,330 --> 00:43:55,590
continue on great so that was really the

925
00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:58,260
highlight of this section 5 I wanted to

926
00:43:58,260 --> 00:44:00,119
talk about access control the other part

927
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:05,340
on this diagram the C value here is the

928
00:44:05,340 --> 00:44:08,490
offset of a driveway from an

929
00:44:08,490 --> 00:44:10,619
intersecting street and now that's an

930
00:44:10,619 --> 00:44:14,400
important number to that really I'm glad

931
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,050
to see that we'll have some numbers to

932
00:44:16,050 --> 00:44:19,200
administer this there and I should also

933
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,490
note to some of these numbers are

934
00:44:20,490 --> 00:44:23,100
derived by standards that come from the

935
00:44:23,100 --> 00:44:25,040
American Association of State Highway

936
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:32,600
Transportation officials Asheville and a

937
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,670
lot of times there's unique cases that

938
00:44:35,670 --> 00:44:38,190
come up where there may need to be

939
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:40,530
reference to those manuals to guide us

940
00:44:40,530 --> 00:44:42,150
through what the right number is what

941
00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:44,690
the right offset from an intersection is

942
00:44:44,690 --> 00:44:46,650
but we have had recent

943
00:44:46,650 --> 00:44:49,980
commercial development come in on a

944
00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:50,789
corner lot

945
00:44:50,789 --> 00:44:53,339
and they want their approach a lot

946
00:44:53,339 --> 00:44:56,069
closer to the intersecting street than

947
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:59,700
they realize is appropriate because of

948
00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:02,910
the impact on the driving lanes of the

949
00:45:02,910 --> 00:45:06,210
side street the closer that driveway is

950
00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:08,519
to this intersecting street that creates

951
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:12,019
all kinds of traffic maneuver conflicts

952
00:45:12,019 --> 00:45:14,940
if there's a traffic signal here and you

953
00:45:14,940 --> 00:45:17,940
have stop cars backed up and this

954
00:45:17,940 --> 00:45:20,069
traffic cannot turn into that driveway

955
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:22,170
that becomes an issue there's all kinds

956
00:45:22,170 --> 00:45:23,460
of issues like that so we want to make

957
00:45:23,460 --> 00:45:24,539
sure that that design is done

958
00:45:24,539 --> 00:45:25,829
appropriately to help minimize those

959
00:45:25,829 --> 00:45:27,359
conflicts in the future and you can all

960
00:45:27,359 --> 00:45:28,920
probably think of a location in town

961
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,589
where there's a access very close to the

962
00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:33,089
intersection and you've driven through

963
00:45:33,089 --> 00:45:35,309
there and felt a little awkward what are

964
00:45:35,309 --> 00:45:37,769
you gonna get hit or not that's what

965
00:45:37,769 --> 00:45:39,180
we're trying to prevent by having these

966
00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:41,309
kind of regulations in place and on new

967
00:45:41,309 --> 00:45:43,440
development it usually is pretty easy to

968
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:45,299
accommodate these kind of numbers so

969
00:45:45,299 --> 00:45:46,950
that because they're starting with a

970
00:45:46,950 --> 00:45:50,519
clean slate and they can really help do

971
00:45:50,519 --> 00:45:53,700
that through these commonly applied

972
00:45:53,700 --> 00:45:57,809
standards moving on chapter six talks

973
00:45:57,809 --> 00:46:00,839
about geotechnical reports when they're

974
00:46:00,839 --> 00:46:02,839
required when we do soil exploration

975
00:46:02,839 --> 00:46:05,249
again this isn't a report that we see a

976
00:46:05,249 --> 00:46:07,170
lot of but there are times when it when

977
00:46:07,170 --> 00:46:09,150
it is necessary and should be done and

978
00:46:09,150 --> 00:46:10,670
that's what this section outlines

979
00:46:10,670 --> 00:46:13,529
chapter 7 talks about grading and the

980
00:46:13,529 --> 00:46:15,269
grading requirements for subdivisions

981
00:46:15,269 --> 00:46:16,739
you'll see both of these sections are

982
00:46:16,739 --> 00:46:19,529
fairly short in content only a couple

983
00:46:19,529 --> 00:46:22,440
pages each chapter 8 another big one

984
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:23,999
that I wanted to point out this is a

985
00:46:23,999 --> 00:46:26,069
longer section almost 30 pages long but

986
00:46:26,069 --> 00:46:27,450
it talks about Street design and

987
00:46:27,450 --> 00:46:30,210
pavement thicknesses and the couple of

988
00:46:30,210 --> 00:46:32,910
components that I'll skip right to here

989
00:46:32,910 --> 00:46:36,359
are right away widths and roadway widths

990
00:46:36,359 --> 00:46:39,739
now these are two components that are

991
00:46:39,739 --> 00:46:42,210
typically one of the the most that are

992
00:46:42,210 --> 00:46:44,160
upfront and present in the public you

993
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:45,509
know once something gets built and

994
00:46:45,509 --> 00:46:47,069
everybody's driving to and from it

995
00:46:47,069 --> 00:46:49,589
whether it be a residence or a new

996
00:46:49,589 --> 00:46:51,720
commercial development this is usually

997
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:53,579
one of the first impactful things that

998
00:46:53,579 --> 00:46:58,109
the community observes feels and can

999
00:46:58,109 --> 00:47:00,330
relate with because it's it

1000
00:47:00,330 --> 00:47:02,310
it's tucked that way for quite a while

1001
00:47:02,310 --> 00:47:04,590
however wide those roads are when that

1002
00:47:04,590 --> 00:47:06,150
developed development got built is how

1003
00:47:06,150 --> 00:47:07,410
why they're gonna be for quite some time

1004
00:47:07,410 --> 00:47:09,720
so we want to make sure we get this part

1005
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:12,050
right to in reference to roadway widths

1006
00:47:12,050 --> 00:47:15,060
right away widths our comp plan we did

1007
00:47:15,060 --> 00:47:17,610
reference that to see and make sure we

1008
00:47:17,610 --> 00:47:19,680
were consistent with it and it does say

1009
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,600
for local streets we have at least sixty

1010
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,360
six foot of right away that number grows

1011
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:25,830
as you get up into a collector in

1012
00:47:25,830 --> 00:47:28,050
arterial functional classification of a

1013
00:47:28,050 --> 00:47:31,680
roadway of course larger the roadway the

1014
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:36,660
larger the right away needs are so

1015
00:47:36,660 --> 00:47:38,790
that's how we have drafted that with the

1016
00:47:38,790 --> 00:47:41,520
right away with roadway widths what

1017
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:44,850
we're proposing is just over a thirty

1018
00:47:44,850 --> 00:47:48,660
nine foot back of curb roadway with as a

1019
00:47:48,660 --> 00:47:52,830
minimum this this would allow for two

1020
00:47:52,830 --> 00:47:56,910
eight foot wide parking lanes and two

1021
00:47:56,910 --> 00:48:00,030
eleven foot wide driving lanes and that

1022
00:48:00,030 --> 00:48:02,340
number of course also grows as you get

1023
00:48:02,340 --> 00:48:06,090
into industrial zoned areas and on

1024
00:48:06,090 --> 00:48:08,850
collector and arterial streets those

1025
00:48:08,850 --> 00:48:11,670
minimum roadway widths wide now I wanted

1026
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:13,560
to show you a handful of slides here and

1027
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:15,060
then we can talk through the

1028
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:16,590
appropriateness of these numbers and

1029
00:48:16,590 --> 00:48:17,700
whether we should be a little an error

1030
00:48:17,700 --> 00:48:22,020
on these minimum widths or not here's an

1031
00:48:22,020 --> 00:48:24,300
example of a street that's only 28 feet

1032
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:27,210
wide this is a pretty hill circle it's a

1033
00:48:27,210 --> 00:48:29,790
cul-de-sac some communities will allow

1034
00:48:29,790 --> 00:48:33,090
their cul-de-sacs to be narrower the

1035
00:48:33,090 --> 00:48:34,920
city Brandon does for example and their

1036
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,980
standards what this 28 foot wide

1037
00:48:37,980 --> 00:48:41,280
this is face the curb to face a curb so

1038
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,020
the effective use of the road because

1039
00:48:43,020 --> 00:48:46,080
obviously once you get back to the the

1040
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,000
curb you're not having any use of that

1041
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:51,660
area so but a 28 foot face to face

1042
00:48:51,660 --> 00:48:54,330
leaves to eight foot parking lanes and

1043
00:48:54,330 --> 00:48:58,500
112 foot drive lane in the middle I

1044
00:48:58,500 --> 00:49:01,200
would note that the fire regulations in

1045
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,920
the AFC would require us to mark one of

1046
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,230
these sides of streets is not as no

1047
00:49:07,230 --> 00:49:10,730
parking because of the fire apparatus

1048
00:49:10,730 --> 00:49:13,600
minimum width drive aisle requirement

1049
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:18,190
for emergency response and so this is a

1050
00:49:18,190 --> 00:49:20,380
narrower example that we wanted to

1051
00:49:20,380 --> 00:49:23,320
include in here this is a 34-foot face a

1052
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,560
curb so face a curb what you pretty much

1053
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,150
do is you add another foot because you

1054
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:29,920
have approximately six inches of curb

1055
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,440
width and that's your back up curve

1056
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,110
width so this is approximately a 35 foot

1057
00:49:35,110 --> 00:49:37,630
back occur with street that allows four

1058
00:49:37,630 --> 00:49:40,150
to eight foot parking lanes and to nine

1059
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:44,110
foot driving lanes this is another same

1060
00:49:44,110 --> 00:49:46,150
situation a little bit different area of

1061
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:48,190
town you can see where it gets congested

1062
00:49:48,190 --> 00:49:49,750
in a hurry when there's a lot of traffic

1063
00:49:49,750 --> 00:49:52,900
there to nine foot driving lanes and to

1064
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:56,530
eight foot parking lanes there's where

1065
00:49:56,530 --> 00:49:57,940
we get a little bit wider now this is a

1066
00:49:57,940 --> 00:50:00,910
38-foot that provides four to eleven

1067
00:50:00,910 --> 00:50:02,500
foot driving lanes and to eight foot

1068
00:50:02,500 --> 00:50:04,900
parking lanes this is effectively what

1069
00:50:04,900 --> 00:50:07,930
our regulations would require our

1070
00:50:07,930 --> 00:50:09,790
residential streets to be built to at a

1071
00:50:09,790 --> 00:50:12,130
minimum this is another example of the

1072
00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:14,050
stream street so again here's the the

1073
00:50:14,050 --> 00:50:17,470
Barron this this looks a lot wider until

1074
00:50:17,470 --> 00:50:20,020
you get some traffic on it and see how

1075
00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:22,510
that impacts the flow you have two

1076
00:50:22,510 --> 00:50:24,160
parked vehicles and then the one driving

1077
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,980
through now you could meet somebody had

1078
00:50:26,980 --> 00:50:28,690
to adhere and presumably have plenty of

1079
00:50:28,690 --> 00:50:30,640
room to both drive through and not have

1080
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:33,270
to stop and wait for the other vehicle

1081
00:50:33,270 --> 00:50:36,810
with those two eleven foot driving lanes

1082
00:50:36,810 --> 00:50:40,000
here's a more extreme case of 40-foot

1083
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:42,010
face the curb the face curb that allows

1084
00:50:42,010 --> 00:50:45,640
for two 12-foot driving lanes more than

1085
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,580
I think is necessary especially in a

1086
00:50:48,580 --> 00:50:54,070
residential subdivision so those are some of the examples that we

1087
00:50:54,070 --> 00:50:57,160
have that I wanted to display the other

1088
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,820
thing I wanted to note so this this

1089
00:51:00,820 --> 00:51:02,500
slide right here would show a typical

1090
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:06,010
street with according to how these

1091
00:51:06,010 --> 00:51:08,350
regulations are drafted at 39 feet back

1092
00:51:08,350 --> 00:51:11,320
occurred the one thing we don't have

1093
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:12,700
pictures of I thought we did but we

1094
00:51:12,700 --> 00:51:16,180
don't and I apologize but in snow

1095
00:51:16,180 --> 00:51:19,000
fighting season when the plows go by as

1096
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,980
we all know the gutter pan can often

1097
00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:23,950
accumulate with snow and that's no

1098
00:51:23,950 --> 00:51:25,750
accumulation of the gutter pan

1099
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:27,369
is sometimes dependent on the type of

1100
00:51:27,369 --> 00:51:28,750
snow removal that's occurring in that

1101
00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:31,180
neighborhood it's dependent upon whether

1102
00:51:31,180 --> 00:51:33,880
there's snow gates being used or not the

1103
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:36,670
presence of snow gates allows for all

1104
00:51:36,670 --> 00:51:38,349
the more snow accumulation in that

1105
00:51:38,349 --> 00:51:40,750
gutter pan so what I'm getting at is in

1106
00:51:40,750 --> 00:51:42,820
our winter seasons here we do have an

1107
00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:44,890
effect of narrowing of our street with

1108
00:51:44,890 --> 00:51:47,830
or usable street with for both parking

1109
00:51:47,830 --> 00:51:50,320
and the travel lanes and something I

1110
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:51,790
just want make sure that everybody's

1111
00:51:51,790 --> 00:51:54,849
sensitive to and and acknowledges when

1112
00:51:54,849 --> 00:51:56,099
we set this number

1113
00:51:56,099 --> 00:51:59,740
whether it's 39 feet or less as far as

1114
00:51:59,740 --> 00:52:04,090
our minimum Street with I'll go back to

1115
00:52:04,090 --> 00:52:06,609
that chart now and here's where that 39

1116
00:52:06,609 --> 00:52:08,290
feet is three and I feet four inches

1117
00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:11,830
because of the the the standardized curb

1118
00:52:11,830 --> 00:52:13,510
width that we use that's just what the

1119
00:52:13,510 --> 00:52:16,090
calculations end up being to provide to

1120
00:52:16,090 --> 00:52:18,550
8-foot parking lanes and to 11 foot

1121
00:52:18,550 --> 00:52:20,980
driving lanes your back a curb width is

1122
00:52:20,980 --> 00:52:25,060
39 feet 4 inches Dave and I have talked

1123
00:52:25,060 --> 00:52:27,310
about this I've referenced other

1124
00:52:27,310 --> 00:52:30,520
communities minimum widths some will go

1125
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,750
as low as 36 37 feet some go as high as

1126
00:52:33,750 --> 00:52:41,530
39 to 44 minimum street widths and this

1127
00:52:41,530 --> 00:52:42,940
is another number to that I would

1128
00:52:42,940 --> 00:52:44,680
appreciate any kind of input that the

1129
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,790
council might have I I would like to

1130
00:52:48,790 --> 00:52:52,270
point out that more recent subdivisions

1131
00:52:52,270 --> 00:52:54,420
have used a narrower standard than this

1132
00:52:54,420 --> 00:53:02,800
and I just to pull it off the top of my

1133
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,710
head when what are the most recent

1134
00:53:05,710 --> 00:53:08,650
subdivisions that we've done I haven't

1135
00:53:08,650 --> 00:53:11,080
checked lately but I I know that Prairie

1136
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:16,960
Hills up there is less was this one of a

1137
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:18,849
mayor that the developer spoke to you on

1138
00:53:18,849 --> 00:53:24,130
behalf of I don't recall okay I know one

1139
00:53:24,130 --> 00:53:25,780
of them that was built I know that even

1140
00:53:25,780 --> 00:53:27,040
the developer came back later and

1141
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,109
thought well if that was the first the

1142
00:53:29,109 --> 00:53:30,940
cul-de-sac that you showed okay we're

1143
00:53:30,940 --> 00:53:32,800
gonna have to so I'm you're saying and

1144
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,450
if we want to be compliant with fire

1145
00:53:34,450 --> 00:53:37,930
code we're gonna have to mark this one

1146
00:53:37,930 --> 00:53:38,800
side Park

1147
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:45,369
correct yes otherwise we'll be out of

1148
00:53:45,369 --> 00:53:47,530
that I don't think we want to do for

1149
00:53:47,530 --> 00:53:50,470
sure that's we would want parking on

1150
00:53:50,470 --> 00:53:52,510
both sides of a residential street in a

1151
00:53:52,510 --> 00:53:54,430
neighborhood we'd want to comply with

1152
00:53:54,430 --> 00:53:57,490
the fire code what would that be a

1153
00:53:57,490 --> 00:54:00,160
minimum were compliance with the fire

1154
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,180
code with parking on both sides 32

1155
00:54:03,180 --> 00:54:07,660
anything over 32 so from 26 feet up to

1156
00:54:07,660 --> 00:54:10,960
32 feet the fire code says no parking

1157
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:12,880
allowed on one side okay so we should be

1158
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,220
posted we would want that to be at least

1159
00:54:15,220 --> 00:54:18,369
32 feet on a cul-de-sac and what what

1160
00:54:18,369 --> 00:54:22,350
did you say your cul-de-sac you said 30

1161
00:54:22,350 --> 00:54:29,470
33 and four inches yeah that's so that's

1162
00:54:29,470 --> 00:54:31,930
32 essentially face a curb to face a

1163
00:54:31,930 --> 00:54:38,330
curb so that complies with the fire code

1164
00:54:38,340 --> 00:54:41,340
the the wider standard for a through

1165
00:54:41,340 --> 00:54:45,040
residential street is the one big

1166
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:46,900
question that developers have requested

1167
00:54:46,900 --> 00:54:50,859
a narrowing of that and I I want to say

1168
00:54:50,859 --> 00:54:53,440
I think we went 36 feet face a curb to

1169
00:54:53,440 --> 00:54:58,930
face a curb which would be 37 and just

1170
00:54:58,930 --> 00:55:00,430
so the council knows we've been all over

1171
00:55:00,430 --> 00:55:04,990
the place on these and whatever we

1172
00:55:04,990 --> 00:55:06,910
require is what we own and maintain

1173
00:55:06,910 --> 00:55:09,820
forever so we don't want to have excess

1174
00:55:09,820 --> 00:55:14,950
asphalt to have to keep up that's that's

1175
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:15,460
an issue

1176
00:55:15,460 --> 00:55:19,690
so what we're what we're saying in the

1177
00:55:19,690 --> 00:55:23,140
table is pretty generous but it does

1178
00:55:23,140 --> 00:55:25,030
allow you to open your door if there's a

1179
00:55:25,030 --> 00:55:27,310
big high snow bank to a little bit more

1180
00:55:27,310 --> 00:55:30,700
comfortably than the narrower streets if

1181
00:55:30,700 --> 00:55:33,180
you have snow piled in the boulevard

1182
00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:35,619
people are going to park a little bit

1183
00:55:35,619 --> 00:55:37,570
farther out into the road and you're

1184
00:55:37,570 --> 00:55:41,380
gonna end up with one lane Kozma Bueller

1185
00:55:41,380 --> 00:55:44,020
question when you talk about called a

1186
00:55:44,020 --> 00:55:46,930
sec the width for a road to a call to

1187
00:55:46,930 --> 00:55:49,990
sack is there is it a one block length

1188
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:50,950
is that the

1189
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:52,730
maxximum where you would go with a

1190
00:55:52,730 --> 00:55:54,500
narrower rotor because if you've got say

1191
00:55:54,500 --> 00:55:57,170
you got six block stretch that comes to

1192
00:55:57,170 --> 00:55:58,850
that cul-de-sac does that make a

1193
00:55:58,850 --> 00:56:01,010
difference and I just want to go on the

1194
00:56:01,010 --> 00:56:04,490
record I I think that because we are a

1195
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:08,600
snow snow load country I think we really

1196
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:09,890
got to be careful with this one

1197
00:56:09,890 --> 00:56:12,260
I don't I know the mayor like kind of

1198
00:56:12,260 --> 00:56:14,090
likes the neighborhood street widths and

1199
00:56:14,090 --> 00:56:15,830
I agree that this is more to maintain

1200
00:56:15,830 --> 00:56:17,660
it's more to install there's more

1201
00:56:17,660 --> 00:56:18,770
expense but I think there's a lot of

1202
00:56:18,770 --> 00:56:21,170
safety issues that surround this - you

1203
00:56:21,170 --> 00:56:23,110
know how you can react to somebody

1204
00:56:23,110 --> 00:56:25,840
pedestrian coming out from behind a car

1205
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,040
somebody who doesn't park right next to

1206
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:29,840
the curb all the time there are a lot of

1207
00:56:29,840 --> 00:56:31,280
different things I think that come into

1208
00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:33,050
play but I just want to go on record

1209
00:56:33,050 --> 00:56:35,990
from my planning experience and some of

1210
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:37,640
the things that I've seen that I think

1211
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,820
that we need to to stay with the wider

1212
00:56:40,820 --> 00:56:43,030
streets

1213
00:56:43,030 --> 00:56:45,140
councilman Bueller to your question on

1214
00:56:45,140 --> 00:56:48,320
Cola sack lengths yeah that's something

1215
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:49,700
I've seen communities handle differently

1216
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:52,190
some will set that length of the maximum

1217
00:56:52,190 --> 00:56:54,860
cul-de-sac length allowed according to a

1218
00:56:54,860 --> 00:56:57,200
sheer number of lots you know no more

1219
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,270
than 20 Lots on a cul-de-sac let's see

1220
00:56:59,270 --> 00:57:03,530
others will relate it to the length of a

1221
00:57:03,530 --> 00:57:07,640
dead-end fire main and so that water

1222
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,100
line going down to that end of that cola

1223
00:57:10,100 --> 00:57:12,920
saken's a dead ending and not looped in

1224
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,200
to the rest of the water system which

1225
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,460
typically isn't good for the water

1226
00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:17,720
system depending on what kind of

1227
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:19,580
turnover will be in that line so that's

1228
00:57:19,580 --> 00:57:21,200
another driving factor that comes into

1229
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,180
play with the length of a cul-de-sac and

1230
00:57:23,180 --> 00:57:25,340
it's kind of all over the board that

1231
00:57:25,340 --> 00:57:27,380
you'll see some will just put an

1232
00:57:27,380 --> 00:57:29,270
arbitrary length to it you know no colas

1233
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:33,500
act longer than 500 feet so there's

1234
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:34,970
those few factors that go into that I

1235
00:57:34,970 --> 00:57:36,500
haven't seen anything necessarily

1236
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:38,630
correlated with the width in relation to

1237
00:57:38,630 --> 00:57:40,460
the length and any of the standards that

1238
00:57:40,460 --> 00:57:42,740
I've applied in the past not saying that

1239
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:44,660
we couldn't create one or have one but

1240
00:57:44,660 --> 00:57:49,100
it's usually just basic street with

1241
00:57:49,100 --> 00:57:52,850
criteria irrelevant or not considering

1242
00:57:52,850 --> 00:58:03,460
the the length of a cul-de-sac

1243
00:58:03,470 --> 00:58:07,070
say 500 foot maximum from cross street

1244
00:58:07,070 --> 00:58:09,410
to the end of the cul-de-sac I was gonna

1245
00:58:09,410 --> 00:58:12,380
ask that where is that Dave do you

1246
00:58:12,380 --> 00:58:14,330
remember where that is

1247
00:58:14,330 --> 00:58:17,869
I'm not sure exactly where that is but

1248
00:58:17,869 --> 00:58:50,340
yeah I think it is in this section

1249
00:58:50,350 --> 00:58:54,320
so chary driving 27th Street I just drew

1250
00:58:54,320 --> 00:59:02,350
up the approved plans we have a 35.3

1251
00:59:02,350 --> 00:59:06,860
back a curb to back a curb which is

1252
00:59:06,860 --> 01:00:25,829
considerably narrower

1253
01:00:25,839 --> 01:00:30,920
well as Dave's looking for that you know

1254
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,710
the other components in this chart there

1255
01:00:33,710 --> 01:00:35,269
are several it talks about the type of

1256
01:00:35,269 --> 01:00:37,460
curb that we allow which is all six inch

1257
01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:39,980
vertical curb we currently don't allow

1258
01:00:39,980 --> 01:00:41,900
any what they call model Bowl or

1259
01:00:41,900 --> 01:00:45,589
rollover curb where you can essentially

1260
01:00:45,589 --> 01:00:48,019
just drive over it some communities do

1261
01:00:48,019 --> 01:00:50,480
allow that we we require six inch

1262
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,019
vertical curb in our standards and which

1263
01:00:54,019 --> 01:00:57,559
creates the need to form a formal curb

1264
01:00:57,559 --> 01:01:00,819
drop for each a driveway or approached

1265
01:01:00,819 --> 01:01:03,319
again in snow country I think that that

1266
01:01:03,319 --> 01:01:07,160
six inch high back curb is a little more

1267
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:08,559
accommodating to the snow removal

1268
01:01:08,559 --> 01:01:14,230
equipment and and the snow storage

1269
01:01:14,230 --> 01:01:16,609
let's see any other highlights from this

1270
01:01:16,609 --> 01:01:20,539
chart again we referenced the ash toe

1271
01:01:20,539 --> 01:01:22,970
standards for some of the horizontal and

1272
01:01:22,970 --> 01:01:25,609
vertical alignment control first Street

1273
01:01:25,609 --> 01:01:30,710
design that's pretty well the highlights

1274
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:32,450
from all the sidewalk I'll point that

1275
01:01:32,450 --> 01:01:34,299
when I'll quick to as well

1276
01:01:34,299 --> 01:01:36,799
sidewalk width we've we went to a

1277
01:01:36,799 --> 01:01:39,950
straight five foot wide sidewalk

1278
01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:41,539
throughout town whether you're in

1279
01:01:41,539 --> 01:01:43,940
residential or commercial some towns

1280
01:01:43,940 --> 01:01:46,069
will split that out and you'll be five

1281
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:48,349
foot wide and commercial areas but only

1282
01:01:48,349 --> 01:01:51,289
four foot wide and residential the state

1283
01:01:51,289 --> 01:01:53,239
I believe has gone to a default five

1284
01:01:53,239 --> 01:01:55,819
foot wide sidewalk and that's what kind

1285
01:01:55,819 --> 01:01:59,690
of spurred us to fall in line with them

1286
01:01:59,690 --> 01:02:02,499
and just use a five foot wide standard

1287
01:02:02,499 --> 01:02:04,819
Center if there's any concerns with that

1288
01:02:04,819 --> 01:02:06,589
but that's another number that we could

1289
01:02:06,589 --> 01:02:08,690
modify as well I think that's that's

1290
01:02:08,690 --> 01:02:11,089
good to bring up the ad a requirement is

1291
01:02:11,089 --> 01:02:14,329
four feet and a lot of our sidewalks in

1292
01:02:14,329 --> 01:02:15,950
town are four feet wide but it's

1293
01:02:15,950 --> 01:02:18,049
difficult for two adults to walk

1294
01:02:18,049 --> 01:02:19,579
side-by-side on the four foot wide

1295
01:02:19,579 --> 01:02:22,549
sidewalk five foot is what a DA

1296
01:02:22,549 --> 01:02:25,819
recommends are and no they recommend we

1297
01:02:25,819 --> 01:02:27,829
do five did you want to say something

1298
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:29,779
cause one well is that if I put maximum

1299
01:02:29,779 --> 01:02:31,260
or is that five foot minimum

1300
01:02:31,260 --> 01:02:35,640
that is uh that is a minimum 5 foot

1301
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:40,130
standard sidewalk with so eda is 4 foot

1302
01:02:40,130 --> 01:02:44,040
we're pulling in 5 foot a DA recommends

1303
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,120
rise they recommend 5 but they require a

1304
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:52,100
minimum of 4 so if anyone's replacing

1305
01:02:52,100 --> 01:02:55,170
current or they gonna have to follow new

1306
01:02:55,170 --> 01:02:57,240
requirement we do have a no ik you'll

1307
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,570
see a note 3 here on our sidewalk

1308
01:03:00,570 --> 01:03:02,240
we're sidewalk is attached to curb

1309
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,790
sidewalks will be one foot wider

1310
01:03:04,790 --> 01:03:07,140
sidewalks that are being constructed or

1311
01:03:07,140 --> 01:03:09,330
replaced adjacent to existing sidewalks

1312
01:03:09,330 --> 01:03:11,070
may be the same width as the adjacent

1313
01:03:11,070 --> 01:03:12,840
sidewalks with the approval of a city

1314
01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:14,940
engineer so if you have a four foot

1315
01:03:14,940 --> 01:03:17,940
sidewalk on a replacing one lots worth

1316
01:03:17,940 --> 01:03:19,920
of it we won't necessarily make them go

1317
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,650
in and put five foot in for that one lot

1318
01:03:22,650 --> 01:03:24,570
with it would make sense in that

1319
01:03:24,570 --> 01:03:26,580
scenario to match the four foot on both

1320
01:03:26,580 --> 01:03:31,680
ends I found where we limited the

1321
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:33,780
cul-de-sacs it's in Section eight point

1322
01:03:33,780 --> 01:03:36,060
seven point six to five hundred feet and

1323
01:03:36,060 --> 01:03:39,420
that will get we'll get some pushback on

1324
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:43,470
that I think we we did away with that

1325
01:03:43,470 --> 01:03:46,410
when there was controversy people want

1326
01:03:46,410 --> 01:03:48,480
them to be longer I thought it's not

1327
01:03:48,480 --> 01:03:50,670
good to be longer because snow removal

1328
01:03:50,670 --> 01:03:52,200
is difficult and we don't want to have

1329
01:03:52,200 --> 01:03:55,860
cul-de-sacs period anywhere but

1330
01:03:55,860 --> 01:03:57,960
sometimes you do have to have them it's

1331
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:00,060
not practical to do something else at

1332
01:04:00,060 --> 01:04:04,680
least we limit the length I don't know

1333
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:06,770
dude did you want to weigh in on that

1334
01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:09,440
Rob the street superintendent

1335
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:13,020
I'm the maximum length for a dead end or

1336
01:04:13,020 --> 01:04:19,020
a cul-de-sac til the sacs are not snow

1337
01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:21,690
removal you know as long as we have a

1338
01:04:21,690 --> 01:04:24,570
turn around at the end like Kristen

1339
01:04:24,570 --> 01:04:28,110
Street up there on 7th Street there's nothing to turn around it's

1340
01:04:28,110 --> 01:04:31,800
about maybe a thousand foot but as far

1341
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:33,480
as the length that call the sax I think

1342
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:34,920
it's fine as long as we have something

1343
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:36,000
at the end of turnaround

1344
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,640
okay so I really don't have any input

1345
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:39,960
other than that

1346
01:04:39,960 --> 01:04:49,410
you know the other component to that that I'll put in provide input for

1347
01:04:49,410 --> 01:04:51,570
that I've talked to rob about is just

1348
01:04:51,570 --> 01:04:54,800
the presence of a cold the sack does

1349
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,570
compound or snow removal efforts because

1350
01:04:57,570 --> 01:04:59,460
of the necessity to haul is snow out of

1351
01:04:59,460 --> 01:05:02,790
those areas but that's just whether

1352
01:05:02,790 --> 01:05:04,050
there's one there or not that's not

1353
01:05:04,050 --> 01:05:05,369
necessarily anything to do with the

1354
01:05:05,369 --> 01:05:09,450
length of it so that is something we're

1355
01:05:09,450 --> 01:05:11,760
also being mindful of as subdivisions

1356
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,599
continue to submit us designs that's one

1357
01:05:15,599 --> 01:05:16,859
recent one that we've reviewed we've

1358
01:05:16,859 --> 01:05:18,930
commented on that they've modified

1359
01:05:18,930 --> 01:05:20,400
they're designed to accommodate our

1360
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,680
request to help minimize cul-de-sac

1361
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:25,260
installations which was good to see so I

1362
01:05:25,260 --> 01:05:27,920
think that there's merit in that as well

1363
01:05:27,920 --> 01:05:34,230
okay I'll jump forward here this is

1364
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:35,730
another one I wanted to touch on quick

1365
01:05:35,730 --> 01:05:39,089
minimum pavement thicknesses we have two

1366
01:05:39,089 --> 01:05:40,980
types of pavement that can go down on

1367
01:05:40,980 --> 01:05:43,020
our streets it's Portland concrete

1368
01:05:43,020 --> 01:05:44,880
cement that's the white stuff and we

1369
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:47,430
have the asphalt concrete pavement

1370
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:53,160
that's the black stuff so ACP and PCC is

1371
01:05:53,160 --> 01:05:56,339
how they're known in the industry both

1372
01:05:56,339 --> 01:05:58,339
have the term concrete in them and so

1373
01:05:58,339 --> 01:06:00,450
technically that's what they're called

1374
01:06:00,450 --> 01:06:02,280
but that often times causes confusion

1375
01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:04,290
because we usually think of concrete

1376
01:06:04,290 --> 01:06:06,030
just being the white pavement that's out

1377
01:06:06,030 --> 01:06:09,270
there long story short the concrete

1378
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:11,250
section we're requiring a minimum of six

1379
01:06:11,250 --> 01:06:14,790
inches on six inches of pavement on top

1380
01:06:14,790 --> 01:06:16,589
of six inches of aggregate base course

1381
01:06:16,589 --> 01:06:20,280
for local streets commercial and

1382
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:22,920
industrial and collector streets we're

1383
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:24,950
requiring eight inches on eight and

1384
01:06:24,950 --> 01:06:28,740
arterials eight inches over twelve and

1385
01:06:28,740 --> 01:06:30,450
again the top number is the pavement

1386
01:06:30,450 --> 01:06:31,890
thickness the bottom numbers the base

1387
01:06:31,890 --> 01:06:33,359
course the granular

1388
01:06:33,359 --> 01:06:35,400
the gravel base course that we haul in

1389
01:06:35,400 --> 01:06:37,400
and Bill our street pavement on the

1390
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,530
asphalt streets four inches on twelve

1391
01:06:40,530 --> 01:06:43,619
four local residential streets six

1392
01:06:43,619 --> 01:06:45,390
inches on twelve for commercial

1393
01:06:45,390 --> 01:06:48,030
industrial or collectors and then six on

1394
01:06:48,030 --> 01:06:50,849
twelve again for arterioles we should

1395
01:06:50,849 --> 01:06:52,440
probably have a note in here for

1396
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:53,740
arterioles

1397
01:06:53,740 --> 01:06:57,360
related to a shto design standards for

1398
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,160
special street sections that are need to

1399
01:07:00,160 --> 01:07:03,250
accommodate heavy traffic loadings you

1400
01:07:03,250 --> 01:07:04,300
know having amount of truck traffic

1401
01:07:04,300 --> 01:07:06,520
again some of this will be specific to

1402
01:07:06,520 --> 01:07:09,730
the road being designed for and the

1403
01:07:09,730 --> 01:07:13,180
design engineer can oftentimes come up

1404
01:07:13,180 --> 01:07:15,880
with different numbers and we're showing

1405
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,430
here and there might be some streets

1406
01:07:18,430 --> 01:07:19,960
where we may want to require more than

1407
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:23,200
this but these are the minimum payment

1408
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:25,990
thicknesses required for the street

1409
01:07:25,990 --> 01:07:28,960
section velar he thought of these how

1410
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,180
did these compare with areas that we

1411
01:07:31,180 --> 01:07:32,920
have had trouble I mean Northridge for

1412
01:07:32,920 --> 01:07:36,550
example a great question I know the base

1413
01:07:36,550 --> 01:07:41,110
course has been sparse and fluctuates

1414
01:07:41,110 --> 01:07:42,700
quite a bit in some of those areas of

1415
01:07:42,700 --> 01:07:43,869
town that we've gone back in and

1416
01:07:43,869 --> 01:07:45,970
reconstructed here recently some of

1417
01:07:45,970 --> 01:07:47,230
those neighborhoods like Northridge

1418
01:07:47,230 --> 01:07:49,270
where we saw premature failures where we

1419
01:07:49,270 --> 01:07:51,880
didn't get a full expected lifecycle out

1420
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:53,890
of the pavement I think we had anywhere

1421
01:07:53,890 --> 01:07:56,380
from two to three inches of pavement on

1422
01:07:56,380 --> 01:08:01,180
top of zero to eight inches of base it

1423
01:08:01,180 --> 01:08:03,490
really did fluctuate quite a bit so this

1424
01:08:03,490 --> 01:08:06,600
does tighten that up or strengthen that

1425
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,070
considerably then it does and one thing

1426
01:08:09,070 --> 01:08:10,420
I'll point out this 12 inches of base

1427
01:08:10,420 --> 01:08:14,500
course in our building conditions so

1428
01:08:14,500 --> 01:08:16,359
many of our areas of town have a high

1429
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:18,730
level of high presence of groundwater

1430
01:08:18,730 --> 01:08:20,500
and that of course fluctuates from year

1431
01:08:20,500 --> 01:08:23,350
to year and from season to season but

1432
01:08:23,350 --> 01:08:26,200
that that base course layer is a really

1433
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:28,210
a drainage layer to help protect and

1434
01:08:28,210 --> 01:08:31,000
preserve the pavement surface and with

1435
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:33,130
the more adequate base course layer the

1436
01:08:33,130 --> 01:08:34,660
better drainage that pavement structure

1437
01:08:34,660 --> 01:08:36,460
is going to have to keep that water

1438
01:08:36,460 --> 01:08:38,529
drained out and down and away from the

1439
01:08:38,529 --> 01:08:41,680
pavement surface and help minimize some

1440
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:43,630
of those impacts that that freeze-thaw

1441
01:08:43,630 --> 01:08:48,009
cycle can have I was going to comment on

1442
01:08:48,009 --> 01:08:50,380
that - I think this is chapter eight one

1443
01:08:50,380 --> 01:08:51,400
of the most important things you've

1444
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:53,350
rather worked on so again come on

1445
01:08:53,350 --> 01:08:55,299
I commend the department - Dave thanks

1446
01:08:55,299 --> 01:08:56,830
for helping out and everybody that

1447
01:08:56,830 --> 01:08:58,330
because this is important we get this in

1448
01:08:58,330 --> 01:09:00,910
place I want to comment specifically on

1449
01:09:00,910 --> 01:09:03,640
this when we accepted those streets up

1450
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:04,699
north is the ones that

1451
01:09:04,699 --> 01:09:06,709
and mention we should have accepted

1452
01:09:06,709 --> 01:09:08,359
those that's really what it comes down

1453
01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:10,940
to Seoul in the future when a street

1454
01:09:10,940 --> 01:09:13,549
it's it gets built then it comes to the

1455
01:09:13,549 --> 01:09:15,019
point where the city's got it accept it

1456
01:09:15,019 --> 01:09:17,059
are we testing for this how do we

1457
01:09:17,059 --> 01:09:18,799
prevent that from happening features

1458
01:09:18,799 --> 01:09:20,539
that cost the city a lot of money what

1459
01:09:20,539 --> 01:09:24,650
happened up north yes so councilman Roby

1460
01:09:24,650 --> 01:09:27,289
to your point the inspection process and

1461
01:09:27,289 --> 01:09:28,849
the acceptance process for these

1462
01:09:28,849 --> 01:09:32,359
subdivisions what we're following to a

1463
01:09:32,359 --> 01:09:34,159
tee as a written in the subdivision

1464
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:36,349
regulations part of that includes a

1465
01:09:36,349 --> 01:09:38,539
final walkthrough inspection with the

1466
01:09:38,539 --> 01:09:42,589
contractor and/or the engineer and/or

1467
01:09:42,589 --> 01:09:45,109
the developer or all three parties and

1468
01:09:45,109 --> 01:09:49,039
we look for things such as you know

1469
01:09:49,039 --> 01:09:50,959
early signs of pavement distress and

1470
01:09:50,959 --> 01:09:52,069
things like that that may have occurred

1471
01:09:52,069 --> 01:09:53,779
trench settlement things like that

1472
01:09:53,779 --> 01:09:56,599
cracked curb and gutter now during the

1473
01:09:56,599 --> 01:09:59,059
construction is when the most opportune

1474
01:09:59,059 --> 01:10:01,070
time to catch what thicknesses are going

1475
01:10:01,070 --> 01:10:02,659
down for these two types of materials

1476
01:10:02,659 --> 01:10:05,150
and that's something to that we've been

1477
01:10:05,150 --> 01:10:07,519
shifting to improve upon and the

1478
01:10:07,519 --> 01:10:09,499
engineering staff is to be out there and

1479
01:10:09,499 --> 01:10:10,849
have more of a presence during the

1480
01:10:10,849 --> 01:10:13,219
construction phase to perform inspection

1481
01:10:13,219 --> 01:10:15,769
on things like these to ensure that

1482
01:10:15,769 --> 01:10:18,019
they're being done to the approved

1483
01:10:18,019 --> 01:10:20,959
construction plans and that will go a

1484
01:10:20,959 --> 01:10:23,360
long way to help prevent those things

1485
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:25,340
from happening if we happen not to be

1486
01:10:25,340 --> 01:10:27,050
out there during construction we do

1487
01:10:27,050 --> 01:10:28,639
always have the option to go back and

1488
01:10:28,639 --> 01:10:32,179
core the street section if if we have

1489
01:10:32,179 --> 01:10:34,579
doubts that there's the minimums require

1490
01:10:34,579 --> 01:10:41,659
these standards require cores Heath have

1491
01:10:41,659 --> 01:10:43,789
a question on the four inch there on the

1492
01:10:43,789 --> 01:10:46,579
asphalt concrete is that thick enough

1493
01:10:46,579 --> 01:10:48,769
even though it's a residential is it

1494
01:10:48,769 --> 01:10:52,280
thick enough to withstand you know it's

1495
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:54,619
our weather that gets us and so it

1496
01:10:54,619 --> 01:10:57,679
seemed like I don't know maybe six would

1497
01:10:57,679 --> 01:11:01,119
be better just because we have all this

1498
01:11:01,119 --> 01:11:03,920
water that freezes and a little crack

1499
01:11:03,920 --> 01:11:05,599
and all of a sudden doesn't take much to

1500
01:11:05,599 --> 01:11:08,499
get four inches deep to break that up

1501
01:11:08,499 --> 01:11:10,070
yeah no that's a good question

1502
01:11:10,070 --> 01:11:12,920
councilman Albertson I think that it is

1503
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:14,989
a pretty standardized thickness for

1504
01:11:14,989 --> 01:11:16,760
residential streets to see that from

1505
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:18,469
most communities you go

1506
01:11:18,469 --> 01:11:21,650
to that our size are bigger I think a

1507
01:11:21,650 --> 01:11:23,090
lot of those components to that go into

1508
01:11:23,090 --> 01:11:25,070
the street section design you know

1509
01:11:25,070 --> 01:11:26,300
whether there's edge drain whether

1510
01:11:26,300 --> 01:11:28,579
there's adequate base course all that

1511
01:11:28,579 --> 01:11:30,710
adds up to whether that Street is going

1512
01:11:30,710 --> 01:11:31,820
to function like it should

1513
01:11:31,820 --> 01:11:34,159
along with you know what section what

1514
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:36,409
thickness of pavement that you have but

1515
01:11:36,409 --> 01:11:38,539
I do think that four would function well

1516
01:11:38,539 --> 01:11:39,860
as long as we get the adequate base

1517
01:11:39,860 --> 01:11:42,530
course underneath it and in a lot of

1518
01:11:42,530 --> 01:11:44,599
cases we'll be looking at requiring edge

1519
01:11:44,599 --> 01:11:46,400
drains as well as long as they can

1520
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:48,860
daylight out somewhere that helps get

1521
01:11:48,860 --> 01:11:50,449
that water again out and away from that

1522
01:11:50,449 --> 01:11:53,329
pavement surface and drained out into

1523
01:11:53,329 --> 01:11:57,289
the storm sewer system Cosmo Buehler

1524
01:11:57,289 --> 01:11:59,239
thank you

1525
01:11:59,239 --> 01:12:02,199
just a question who signs off who's the

1526
01:12:02,199 --> 01:12:04,579
ultimately the sign-off person would

1527
01:12:04,579 --> 01:12:06,800
that be the city engineer that signs off

1528
01:12:06,800 --> 01:12:09,979
on the testing and is there a way to

1529
01:12:09,979 --> 01:12:13,460
track who signed off on what do we have

1530
01:12:13,460 --> 01:12:16,880
documents that show that so for the

1531
01:12:16,880 --> 01:12:18,590
testing itself that's all up to the

1532
01:12:18,590 --> 01:12:21,019
developers engineer to perform as far as

1533
01:12:21,019 --> 01:12:24,320
compaction tests and concrete testing

1534
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:26,630
and things of that nature the inspection

1535
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:28,219
that we perform would more be to a

1536
01:12:28,219 --> 01:12:31,670
visual and just to make sure that the

1537
01:12:31,670 --> 01:12:33,739
grades look appropriate thicknesses look

1538
01:12:33,739 --> 01:12:35,889
appropriate and things of that nature so

1539
01:12:35,889 --> 01:12:38,389
we don't we don't necessarily check off

1540
01:12:38,389 --> 01:12:40,550
and any of that testing but the

1541
01:12:40,550 --> 01:12:45,419
developers engineer should be signing a

1542
01:12:45,429 --> 01:12:47,539
confirmation statement that they did

1543
01:12:47,539 --> 01:12:49,309
follow all the construction

1544
01:12:49,309 --> 01:12:51,139
specifications requirements and perform

1545
01:12:51,139 --> 01:12:53,329
testing where needed and necessary

1546
01:12:53,329 --> 01:12:57,670
throughout the construction so we've had

1547
01:12:57,670 --> 01:13:01,849
these issues you know so at some point

1548
01:13:01,849 --> 01:13:03,860
is there someone that is responsible for

1549
01:13:03,860 --> 01:13:07,610
that within the city I would say our

1550
01:13:07,610 --> 01:13:09,499
responsibility lies on ensuring that

1551
01:13:09,499 --> 01:13:11,329
we're getting the right check offs from

1552
01:13:11,329 --> 01:13:12,860
the developers engineer I don't know as

1553
01:13:12,860 --> 01:13:16,239
though we've done that in the past very

1554
01:13:16,239 --> 01:13:18,949
regularly with some of the records that

1555
01:13:18,949 --> 01:13:21,469
I've looked at or tried to find

1556
01:13:21,469 --> 01:13:23,690
information in if we're consistent with

1557
01:13:23,690 --> 01:13:25,760
this process and and the developers

1558
01:13:25,760 --> 01:13:27,260
engineers checking off providing

1559
01:13:27,260 --> 01:13:31,039
certification and we've got knowledge by

1560
01:13:31,039 --> 01:13:32,300
our field inspection

1561
01:13:32,300 --> 01:13:34,369
that the appropriate things happened as

1562
01:13:34,369 --> 01:13:37,309
per the approved plans I think that

1563
01:13:37,309 --> 01:13:38,869
that'll go a long way and help prevent

1564
01:13:38,869 --> 01:13:40,309
some of these issues that we've had in

1565
01:13:40,309 --> 01:13:49,040
recent past I would I would think what

1566
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:50,840
Bruce is trying to get is that someone

1567
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,790
from our and be the one that comes out

1568
01:13:52,790 --> 01:13:55,099
and certifies that versus someone from

1569
01:13:55,099 --> 01:13:57,020
the developers and that we're thinking

1570
01:13:57,020 --> 01:14:00,290
oh no I understand I mean I I know

1571
01:14:00,290 --> 01:14:01,760
that's what we've done but I think at

1572
01:14:01,760 --> 01:14:04,250
the end of the day somebody here has to

1573
01:14:04,250 --> 01:14:07,010
okay and that those processes have been

1574
01:14:07,010 --> 01:14:08,329
carried out and they've been carried out

1575
01:14:08,329 --> 01:14:09,079
properly

1576
01:14:09,079 --> 01:14:11,420
yeah because because we can always I

1577
01:14:11,420 --> 01:14:14,809
mean this could happen again and again and we just say well you know

1578
01:14:14,809 --> 01:14:16,520
Joe's construction they apparently

1579
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:18,500
didn't do it as good a job as they

1580
01:14:18,500 --> 01:14:20,570
should have when they did the testing or

1581
01:14:20,570 --> 01:14:25,460
whoever they had independently test that concrete or compaction that kind of

1582
01:14:25,460 --> 01:14:27,619
thing so it's all I'm saying is that

1583
01:14:27,619 --> 01:14:29,869
there's somebody that that is

1584
01:14:29,869 --> 01:14:32,690
responsible for that within our city

1585
01:14:32,690 --> 01:14:35,000
government not you know just yeah it

1586
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,030
looks good it's okay that guy said it's

1587
01:14:38,030 --> 01:14:39,469
good so there we go

1588
01:14:39,469 --> 01:14:42,530
yeah we're citing the design standards

1589
01:14:42,530 --> 01:14:44,750
Heath I mean I think it's for us to be

1590
01:14:44,750 --> 01:14:46,520
going out there and making sure that the

1591
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:48,290
design standards are set and that

1592
01:14:48,290 --> 01:14:50,900
they've been met by what we feel versus

1593
01:14:50,900 --> 01:14:53,659
you know by the you know nothing against

1594
01:14:53,659 --> 01:14:55,159
a in developers but by what their

1595
01:14:55,159 --> 01:14:57,349
engineering firm has said or whoever

1596
01:14:57,349 --> 01:14:59,210
built it I mean I think we are the ones

1597
01:14:59,210 --> 01:15:00,650
that are ultimately responsible for

1598
01:15:00,650 --> 01:15:02,599
signing off and we're gonna get the bill

1599
01:15:02,599 --> 01:15:04,520
at the end of it you know one for years

1600
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,159
to come so yeah for us I personally

1601
01:15:07,159 --> 01:15:10,070
rather see one of our guys go down you

1602
01:15:10,070 --> 01:15:12,860
know spot check in here and there yeah

1603
01:15:12,860 --> 01:15:15,530
and so there are communities that

1604
01:15:15,530 --> 01:15:18,139
embrace that concept and they do City

1605
01:15:18,139 --> 01:15:20,480
perform inspections I can tell you that

1606
01:15:20,480 --> 01:15:22,639
in Watertown that would take a pretty

1607
01:15:22,639 --> 01:15:25,329
significant staffing change for us

1608
01:15:25,329 --> 01:15:27,290
probably the tune of at least two

1609
01:15:27,290 --> 01:15:28,849
engineering technicians if we were going

1610
01:15:28,849 --> 01:15:30,590
to perform full-time inspection on

1611
01:15:30,590 --> 01:15:33,469
developments so other communities do it

1612
01:15:33,469 --> 01:15:35,510
like we have been where we do rely on

1613
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:37,489
the developer and their engineer to make

1614
01:15:37,489 --> 01:15:39,079
sure that we're following the processes

1615
01:15:39,079 --> 01:15:40,610
they give us a signed certification

1616
01:15:40,610 --> 01:15:43,309
saying they sign that they perform those

1617
01:15:43,309 --> 01:15:45,800
processes and then our checkoff really

1618
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:47,330
becomes you know the final walkthrough

1619
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:49,460
and and the random inspections that we

1620
01:15:49,460 --> 01:15:51,280
can get out there on to make sure that

1621
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,260
things are being constructed

1622
01:15:53,260 --> 01:15:55,910
appropriately so do we run core samples

1623
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:59,690
so do we or do we look at core samples

1624
01:15:59,690 --> 01:16:02,690
that they have done for us I mean they

1625
01:16:02,690 --> 01:16:04,250
don't like the state if the state builds

1626
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:05,990
a road they have to take samples of

1627
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:07,850
bridge they have things samples under

1628
01:16:07,850 --> 01:16:09,740
that kind of create that sort of thing

1629
01:16:09,740 --> 01:16:11,810
that they can present for inspection to

1630
01:16:11,810 --> 01:16:13,700
the state yeah under the new standards

1631
01:16:13,700 --> 01:16:16,850
we will be but have not to my knowledge

1632
01:16:16,850 --> 01:16:21,260
been doing that the ability to they they

1633
01:16:21,260 --> 01:16:24,350
can do a nuclear test as well which is

1634
01:16:24,350 --> 01:16:27,770
non invasive testing but you have to

1635
01:16:27,770 --> 01:16:29,930
have specialized equipment and training

1636
01:16:29,930 --> 01:16:34,120
to use a Knick nuclear test gauge

1637
01:16:34,120 --> 01:16:38,480
otherwise coring is the standard and we

1638
01:16:38,480 --> 01:16:41,510
require it in these standards councilman

1639
01:16:41,510 --> 01:16:44,200
Villar I just like to weigh in to what

1640
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,510
Bruce and you and Adam are saying I've

1641
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:49,970
been on that committee that that you're

1642
01:16:49,970 --> 01:16:53,660
you referenced earlier Heath as was or

1643
01:16:53,660 --> 01:16:57,320
as is a read Helene that this is a bone

1644
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:00,140
of contention around the table as we

1645
01:17:00,140 --> 01:17:02,930
listen to and I get him yet I I was

1646
01:17:02,930 --> 01:17:04,940
definitely a lay person there that did

1647
01:17:04,940 --> 01:17:08,060
not talk Turkey like like most people on

1648
01:17:08,060 --> 01:17:10,040
the table but this was one of the bones

1649
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:12,500
of contention that felt like did a lot

1650
01:17:12,500 --> 01:17:14,930
of duplication of effort because you

1651
01:17:14,930 --> 01:17:16,970
were already asking that the engineers

1652
01:17:16,970 --> 01:17:18,470
the professional engineers who have

1653
01:17:18,470 --> 01:17:20,990
standards to uphold to sign off on it

1654
01:17:20,990 --> 01:17:23,450
and then the the rough comes when they

1655
01:17:23,450 --> 01:17:25,400
felt like city was holding up the

1656
01:17:25,400 --> 01:17:28,400
process by effectively duplicating what

1657
01:17:28,400 --> 01:17:30,500
the engine the earth of the developers

1658
01:17:30,500 --> 01:17:33,170
engineers had done and as an accountant

1659
01:17:33,170 --> 01:17:35,000
coming from the auditing world I know

1660
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:36,890
exactly where they're coming from I mean

1661
01:17:36,890 --> 01:17:40,070
it's it would be a duplication of effort

1662
01:17:40,070 --> 01:17:43,310
as I see it as I've worked with audits

1663
01:17:43,310 --> 01:17:46,520
over the years in my profession so that

1664
01:17:46,520 --> 01:17:48,770
this I hear where you're coming from I

1665
01:17:48,770 --> 01:17:50,930
don't disagree but I think when the cost

1666
01:17:50,930 --> 01:17:52,790
when you look at the cost involved and

1667
01:17:52,790 --> 01:17:54,530
what does the timeliness of a project

1668
01:17:54,530 --> 01:17:56,900
I think though what you're explaining

1669
01:17:56,900 --> 01:17:59,900
Heath makes sense to me in what we're

1670
01:17:59,900 --> 01:18:02,809
trying to accomplish here well let me

1671
01:18:02,809 --> 01:18:05,270
kind of clarify so sorry

1672
01:18:05,270 --> 01:18:07,400
you know I'm thinking that it's an audit

1673
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,139
process you know and if they're doing

1674
01:18:09,139 --> 01:18:11,210
core samples that we have an opportunity

1675
01:18:11,210 --> 01:18:12,949
to look at those core samples and know

1676
01:18:12,949 --> 01:18:14,449
what location they're from I'm not

1677
01:18:14,449 --> 01:18:16,219
saying that we would duplicate what the

1678
01:18:16,219 --> 01:18:17,780
engineering group is trying to do that

1679
01:18:17,780 --> 01:18:20,420
works for that developer I'm saying that

1680
01:18:20,420 --> 01:18:22,639
because what's going to keep us from

1681
01:18:22,639 --> 01:18:24,920
having this happen again but it's that's

1682
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,230
the Buddha would be out on a limited I

1683
01:18:27,230 --> 01:18:29,270
mean you're right if you any determining

1684
01:18:29,270 --> 01:18:33,619
and I did it definitely be a sample and I think it would be a relatively

1685
01:18:33,619 --> 01:18:35,750
small sample what satisfied we're trying

1686
01:18:35,750 --> 01:18:38,339
to accomplish

1687
01:18:38,349 --> 01:18:41,599
all right Council under demske heathrow

1688
01:18:41,599 --> 01:18:44,000
these engineers do these inspections

1689
01:18:44,000 --> 01:18:45,650
that we rely on when they sign off on

1690
01:18:45,650 --> 01:18:47,420
the paperwork are they required to carry

1691
01:18:47,420 --> 01:18:49,280
any kind of insurance in case this road

1692
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:51,590
does fall apart before you know the

1693
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:53,989
expected life expectancy so this burden

1694
01:18:53,989 --> 01:18:59,539
doesn't fall back on the city short

1695
01:18:59,539 --> 01:19:02,210
answer is yes all engineers have you

1696
01:19:02,210 --> 01:19:03,559
know certain levels of liability

1697
01:19:03,559 --> 01:19:05,840
insurance some of the things we also

1698
01:19:05,840 --> 01:19:08,119
require is bonding of our contractors

1699
01:19:08,119 --> 01:19:10,159
any contractor doing work in the

1700
01:19:10,159 --> 01:19:11,539
community has to have a certain level of

1701
01:19:11,539 --> 01:19:14,510
bonding put up with the city finance

1702
01:19:14,510 --> 01:19:16,460
office and and when they obtain their

1703
01:19:16,460 --> 01:19:20,510
license to do work in the city now when

1704
01:19:20,510 --> 01:19:24,469
it comes to failures after we've

1705
01:19:24,469 --> 01:19:26,239
accepted it that's where it becomes a

1706
01:19:26,239 --> 01:19:28,940
lot more challenging you typically once

1707
01:19:28,940 --> 01:19:32,510
that acceptance has been made we've done

1708
01:19:32,510 --> 01:19:34,579
a final walk through the year warranty

1709
01:19:34,579 --> 01:19:35,570
has expired

1710
01:19:35,570 --> 01:19:36,800
we've gotten to a point where we've

1711
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:38,570
accepted it it's the cities to own and

1712
01:19:38,570 --> 01:19:41,809
maintain in perpetuity once we get past

1713
01:19:41,809 --> 01:19:45,139
that point it becomes very difficult to

1714
01:19:45,139 --> 01:19:46,880
pull those parties back in if the road

1715
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:49,789
blows up on us I can't say I'm a gonna

1716
01:19:49,789 --> 01:19:51,710
see it can't happen but it does become

1717
01:19:51,710 --> 01:19:55,460
more difficult that's where having the

1718
01:19:55,460 --> 01:19:57,219
right procedures in place ahead of time

1719
01:19:57,219 --> 01:20:00,679
really do help prevent those instances

1720
01:20:00,679 --> 01:20:01,699
from occurring

1721
01:20:01,699 --> 01:20:04,340
if you have the right design standards

1722
01:20:04,340 --> 01:20:05,929
if you have the right check offs during

1723
01:20:05,929 --> 01:20:08,850
construction and then you have the right

1724
01:20:08,850 --> 01:20:11,470
inspection process at the end the right

1725
01:20:11,470 --> 01:20:13,830
acceptance procedure the warranty period

1726
01:20:13,830 --> 01:20:16,270
those all those things really do help

1727
01:20:16,270 --> 01:20:17,620
mitigate some of the things that we've

1728
01:20:17,620 --> 01:20:19,480
seen like from the north end of town and

1729
01:20:19,480 --> 01:20:23,500
some of these subdivisions I guess I

1730
01:20:23,500 --> 01:20:26,080
can't speak exactly to how that would

1731
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,120
come into play a you know get more of a

1732
01:20:28,120 --> 01:20:30,610
legal interpretation of what the

1733
01:20:30,610 --> 01:20:32,950
development agreement says how the

1734
01:20:32,950 --> 01:20:34,500
developer could be held responsible

1735
01:20:34,500 --> 01:20:37,390
and/or their engineer and/or their

1736
01:20:37,390 --> 01:20:39,460
contractor I think that the connection

1737
01:20:39,460 --> 01:20:40,360
we would have would be through that

1738
01:20:40,360 --> 01:20:47,980
development agreement right great

1739
01:20:47,980 --> 01:20:49,300
discussion

1740
01:20:49,300 --> 01:20:51,310
I'll quick breeze through these next few

1741
01:20:51,310 --> 01:20:54,070
sections sanitary sewers this is a

1742
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:55,930
mike's world right here pretty

1743
01:20:55,930 --> 01:20:57,250
straightforward stuff it all flows

1744
01:20:57,250 --> 01:20:58,570
downhill and that's how we want to keep

1745
01:20:58,570 --> 01:21:02,920
it go on so now it does get into some

1746
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,020
lift station design criteria and and

1747
01:21:05,020 --> 01:21:06,700
things of that nature but it's a pretty

1748
01:21:06,700 --> 01:21:08,050
straightforward section there's a

1749
01:21:08,050 --> 01:21:10,000
minimum pipe slope requirements minimum

1750
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:12,430
pipe size requirements minimum manhole

1751
01:21:12,430 --> 01:21:14,620
requirements and all those pertinence is

1752
01:21:14,620 --> 01:21:15,940
that are related to the sanitary sewer

1753
01:21:15,940 --> 01:21:18,850
system chapter 10 like a referenced

1754
01:21:18,850 --> 01:21:21,040
earlier this simply refers to Watertown

1755
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:22,870
municipal utilities and their design

1756
01:21:22,870 --> 01:21:26,290
standards for water mains chapter 11 has

1757
01:21:26,290 --> 01:21:28,960
talks about storm sewers this gets into

1758
01:21:28,960 --> 01:21:31,330
some of the design criteria that are two

1759
01:21:31,330 --> 01:21:32,710
documents that we've already adopted

1760
01:21:32,710 --> 01:21:37,210
back in 2008 or 9 the post-construction

1761
01:21:37,210 --> 01:21:39,640
stormwater best management practices

1762
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:43,990
manual pretty much that outlines our

1763
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:46,060
detention pond requirements and things

1764
01:21:46,060 --> 01:21:48,370
of that nature the measures that we need

1765
01:21:48,370 --> 01:21:51,340
to put in place that stay there for the

1766
01:21:51,340 --> 01:21:53,440
long term after construction is complete

1767
01:21:53,440 --> 01:21:55,930
all these sections the design standards

1768
01:21:55,930 --> 01:21:57,790
kind of get built on top of that and

1769
01:21:57,790 --> 01:21:59,710
talk about really a lot of the things

1770
01:21:59,710 --> 01:22:02,170
similar to the sanitary sewer section

1771
01:22:02,170 --> 01:22:05,440
minimum pipe sizes pipe types minimum

1772
01:22:05,440 --> 01:22:07,090
pipe slopes all the things of that

1773
01:22:07,090 --> 01:22:11,310
nature the next section is stems to

1774
01:22:11,310 --> 01:22:13,510
stormwater as well that's the erosion

1775
01:22:13,510 --> 01:22:17,080
and sediment control section this this

1776
01:22:17,080 --> 01:22:19,060
refers to that second document that is

1777
01:22:19,060 --> 01:22:20,500
talked about

1778
01:22:20,500 --> 01:22:22,690
our best management practices manual for

1779
01:22:22,690 --> 01:22:24,040
erosion and sediment control that we've

1780
01:22:24,040 --> 01:22:26,500
already adopted years ago we've

1781
01:22:26,500 --> 01:22:28,240
incorporated that by reference in this

1782
01:22:28,240 --> 01:22:31,270
section along with saddens some other

1783
01:22:31,270 --> 01:22:32,590
additional language in there

1784
01:22:32,590 --> 01:22:36,070
chapter 13 is construction plans what's

1785
01:22:36,070 --> 01:22:38,650
required in the construction plans this

1786
01:22:38,650 --> 01:22:40,750
is verbatim I think pretty much out of

1787
01:22:40,750 --> 01:22:43,200
the chapter 24 subdivision regulations

1788
01:22:43,200 --> 01:22:45,610
so everything that we require and the

1789
01:22:45,610 --> 01:22:48,160
subdivision regs is carried over into

1790
01:22:48,160 --> 01:22:53,050
the design standards 14 and 14 it also

1791
01:22:53,050 --> 01:22:55,000
mimics what's in the subdivision

1792
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:57,370
regulations this talks about the

1793
01:22:57,370 --> 01:22:59,140
acceptance process that we just hit on

1794
01:22:59,140 --> 01:23:02,680
with this infrastructure what does that

1795
01:23:02,680 --> 01:23:05,560
final acceptance process look like what

1796
01:23:05,560 --> 01:23:07,660
are the developer warranty

1797
01:23:07,660 --> 01:23:10,450
responsibilities and the things of that

1798
01:23:10,450 --> 01:23:13,630
nature and then chapter 15 talks about

1799
01:23:13,630 --> 01:23:16,900
inspection and testing and the

1800
01:23:16,900 --> 01:23:19,120
submittals and this talks to councilmen

1801
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:20,920
Beeler's point and Councilman ville

1802
01:23:20,920 --> 01:23:22,720
harbors point you know they're required

1803
01:23:22,720 --> 01:23:24,970
to provide submittals in regards to the

1804
01:23:24,970 --> 01:23:27,460
inspection and testing to provide us

1805
01:23:27,460 --> 01:23:29,110
with the testing schedules were or are

1806
01:23:29,110 --> 01:23:34,840
on a project and then again all those

1807
01:23:34,840 --> 01:23:36,730
majors that help us ensure that they've

1808
01:23:36,730 --> 01:23:39,190
followed the proper procedures to build

1809
01:23:39,190 --> 01:23:43,890
soundly within the city wrapping this up

1810
01:23:43,890 --> 01:23:48,040
really four pillars of success in

1811
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:51,850
administering design standards I think

1812
01:23:51,850 --> 01:23:53,890
that these really hit home to why these

1813
01:23:53,890 --> 01:23:55,690
are needed why they're gonna be a great

1814
01:23:55,690 --> 01:23:58,060
thing for Watertown why the developers

1815
01:23:58,060 --> 01:24:00,880
or engineers the city staff will all be

1816
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:02,500
able to work together because each and

1817
01:24:02,500 --> 01:24:04,090
every one of us that are stakeholders in

1818
01:24:04,090 --> 01:24:05,890
this are going to have guidance we're

1819
01:24:05,890 --> 01:24:07,870
gonna have consistency we're gonna have

1820
01:24:07,870 --> 01:24:09,340
efficiency and we're gonna have

1821
01:24:09,340 --> 01:24:11,350
longevity to the products that are built

1822
01:24:11,350 --> 01:24:13,990
out there and I think that this really

1823
01:24:13,990 --> 01:24:16,180
it's only intent to these standards to

1824
01:24:16,180 --> 01:24:17,770
provide these four things for this

1825
01:24:17,770 --> 01:24:22,060
community that brings me to the end of

1826
01:24:22,060 --> 01:24:25,390
my time and my presentation I'd gladly

1827
01:24:25,390 --> 01:24:26,980
field any more questions any more

1828
01:24:26,980 --> 01:24:29,230
changes we want to make before the the

1829
01:24:29,230 --> 01:24:30,880
adoption consideration in the next

1830
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:32,800
meeting we do have it as an action item

1831
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:34,089
to adopt these in the next

1832
01:24:34,089 --> 01:24:36,249
and we've glad to make any tweaks or

1833
01:24:36,249 --> 01:24:38,699
modifications in conjunction with that

1834
01:24:38,699 --> 01:24:42,550
okay quick question I know you got input

1835
01:24:42,550 --> 01:24:44,619
from the developers on this I hope this

1836
01:24:44,619 --> 01:24:47,409
is received well by them because I think

1837
01:24:47,409 --> 01:24:49,989
a lot of things we've heard is we just

1838
01:24:49,989 --> 01:24:51,579
want to know what the rules are you know

1839
01:24:51,579 --> 01:24:53,079
and though we've had things published

1840
01:24:53,079 --> 01:24:54,339
before I think the fact that you've

1841
01:24:54,339 --> 01:24:57,010
formalized all this I think is gonna go

1842
01:24:57,010 --> 01:24:59,289
a long way to prevent you what was

1843
01:24:59,289 --> 01:25:00,729
happening and that was a lot of things

1844
01:25:00,729 --> 01:25:02,709
ending up in the council we found

1845
01:25:02,709 --> 01:25:04,749
ourselves negotiating developer

1846
01:25:04,749 --> 01:25:05,949
agreements we should not be in that

1847
01:25:05,949 --> 01:25:09,489
position rarely if ever so again thanks

1848
01:25:09,489 --> 01:25:11,079
the department Dave thank you for coming

1849
01:25:11,079 --> 01:25:12,879
on to help out and the whole group that

1850
01:25:12,879 --> 01:25:15,969
did this is important yes councilman

1851
01:25:15,969 --> 01:25:19,059
robing to your point we have indirectly

1852
01:25:19,059 --> 01:25:20,709
received some input from the developers

1853
01:25:20,709 --> 01:25:22,209
you're exactly right they want to see

1854
01:25:22,209 --> 01:25:24,309
these adopted and thank you for

1855
01:25:24,309 --> 01:25:25,719
reminding me because I wanted to point

1856
01:25:25,719 --> 01:25:27,010
out that this is gonna be a living

1857
01:25:27,010 --> 01:25:28,959
breathing document it's adopted by

1858
01:25:28,959 --> 01:25:31,749
resolution what I've done in press past

1859
01:25:31,749 --> 01:25:33,849
communities is we keep a running list of

1860
01:25:33,849 --> 01:25:35,979
redline notes in our design standards

1861
01:25:35,979 --> 01:25:37,749
book of things that aren't working well

1862
01:25:37,749 --> 01:25:40,030
and don't fit the community well and

1863
01:25:40,030 --> 01:25:42,069
we'll continue to do that I'll make sure

1864
01:25:42,069 --> 01:25:43,869
we do that our staff does that here in

1865
01:25:43,869 --> 01:25:46,510
Watertown we've even collected input

1866
01:25:46,510 --> 01:25:48,999
from consultants engineers or design

1867
01:25:48,999 --> 01:25:51,579
engineers for the developers throughout

1868
01:25:51,579 --> 01:25:53,859
the year and I would estimate with this

1869
01:25:53,859 --> 01:25:55,719
being brand new you know a year out we

1870
01:25:55,719 --> 01:25:56,800
might have a good handful of

1871
01:25:56,800 --> 01:25:58,229
housekeeping items you want to update

1872
01:25:58,229 --> 01:26:00,819
but then once we get settled into a good

1873
01:26:00,819 --> 01:26:03,489
document I've seen a good cycle of every

1874
01:26:03,489 --> 01:26:04,989
four to five years you do a little bit

1875
01:26:04,989 --> 01:26:07,659
of a facelift to these things and just

1876
01:26:07,659 --> 01:26:09,249
to make sure you're knocking the dust

1877
01:26:09,249 --> 01:26:10,809
off and getting rid of the things that

1878
01:26:10,809 --> 01:26:15,879
don't work real well so I got a question

1879
01:26:15,879 --> 01:26:19,659
I recommend that we recommend to that

1880
01:26:19,659 --> 01:26:21,399
the full council meeting that we approve

1881
01:26:21,399 --> 01:26:23,169
this but will what we have tucked is a

1882
01:26:23,169 --> 01:26:24,639
lot of time here now well we have more

1883
01:26:24,639 --> 01:26:27,189
just a chance to discuss this thank you

1884
01:26:27,189 --> 01:26:29,050
cuz I got a few questions and comments

1885
01:26:29,050 --> 01:26:30,729
I'd like to make to and that time comes

1886
01:26:30,729 --> 01:26:32,729
so but I would recommend that we

1887
01:26:32,729 --> 01:26:34,839
recommend it for approval right at this

1888
01:26:34,839 --> 01:26:36,429
point yeah we have a motion

1889
01:26:36,429 --> 01:26:38,019
second on the floor for ready to take

1890
01:26:38,019 --> 01:26:40,300
action to make that recommendation of

1891
01:26:40,300 --> 01:26:42,309
the console all those in favor signify

1892
01:26:42,309 --> 01:26:45,010
by saying aye aye opposed signify were

1893
01:26:45,010 --> 01:26:47,469
saying nay motion carries

1894
01:26:47,469 --> 01:26:49,479
okay is there any old business to

1895
01:26:49,479 --> 01:26:56,380
discuss oh oh okay f is contribution of

1896
01:26:56,380 --> 01:26:58,510
urban renewal loan funds to the

1897
01:26:58,510 --> 01:26:59,860
Watertown Development Company for

1898
01:26:59,860 --> 01:27:01,840
management of the loan program and I'm

1899
01:27:01,840 --> 01:27:03,369
not looking for action on that because

1900
01:27:03,369 --> 01:27:06,280
we're we're not ready for that one so

1901
01:27:06,280 --> 01:27:07,409
sorry

1902
01:27:07,409 --> 01:27:12,760
skipped over it so now old business none

1903
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,900
any new business we will not be going

1904
01:27:16,900 --> 01:27:19,209
into executive session so look for

1905
01:27:19,209 --> 01:27:20,459
motion to adjourn

1906
01:27:20,459 --> 01:27:22,659
motion by Bill Haller and a second by

1907
01:27:22,659 --> 01:27:25,539
Radomski any discussion all those in

1908
01:27:25,539 --> 01:27:29,590
favor signify by saying aye okay all

1909
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:31,260
those opposed signify by saying nay

1910
01:27:31,260 --> 01:27:33,729
motion carries we're gonna take a brief

1911
01:27:33,729 --> 01:27:37,769
break and then we'll come back for the