1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:08,880 Good evening. I'd like to call the um 2 00:00:05,359 --> 00:00:10,800 July 9th regular meeting of the city of 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:13,599 Webster Gross Board of Adjustment to 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:17,039 order. Um 5 00:00:13,599 --> 00:00:18,320 Randy, would you please uh 6 00:00:17,039 --> 00:00:21,119 » Roll call? 7 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,320 » All right, I will. Uh Randy Sprag here. 8 00:00:21,119 --> 00:00:23,039 Uh Debbie Sberg 9 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,240 » Here. 10 00:00:23,039 --> 00:00:26,880 » Uh John Bur here. Uh Jennifer Gates 11 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:28,400 » Here. 12 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,119 » And Andrew Path 13 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,439 » Here. 14 00:00:29,119 --> 00:00:33,200 » Thank you. you. In addition to the board 15 00:00:31,439 --> 00:00:35,920 members tonight, we also have the acting 16 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:40,320 city attorney, Peter Buntreger, and the 17 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:42,800 uh city planner, Evan Winkler. We have 18 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:46,079 one hearing tonight. So, what we will do 19 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:49,680 is we will the city will present their 20 00:00:46,079 --> 00:00:52,320 case and then the and then you because I 21 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:55,360 assume you are the petitioners uh will 22 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:59,039 will be able to present your uh your 23 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,840 request. We will may ask questions of 24 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:04,720 the city staff or you. Then we will ask 25 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:07,520 if there's anyone in the audience else 26 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:10,080 in the audience who'd like to speak and 27 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:12,560 anyone online who'd like to speak either 28 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:16,720 in favor or in opposition or with 29 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:19,759 concern. Um then we will close the 30 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:22,880 public session and move to executive 31 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:26,240 session where we will uh make probably 32 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:29,280 make a decision tonight. you're you do 33 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:31,360 need four pop four votes in favor to 34 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:34,159 approve a variance 35 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,159 and um we do ask you not to be redundant 36 00:01:34,159 --> 00:01:39,200 or repetitive in your comments but you 37 00:01:36,159 --> 00:01:41,520 know chances are you the uh would you 38 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,600 please Randy would you please read the 39 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,000 powers relative to variations 40 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,799 » Uh when by reason of expect exceptional 41 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,560 narrowness shallowness or shape of a 42 00:01:48,799 --> 00:01:53,439 specific piece of property as of 43 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:55,119 September 20th 1956 44 00:01:53,439 --> 00:01:57,360 or by reason of exceptional 45 00:01:55,119 --> 00:01:59,840 topographical conditions or other 46 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:02,240 extraordinary exceptional situation or 47 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,320 condition of a specific piece of 48 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,479 property which condition is not 49 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,479 generally prevalent in the neighborhood. 50 00:02:06,479 --> 00:02:10,879 The strict application of the area 51 00:02:08,479 --> 00:02:12,879 regulations of this zoning code would 52 00:02:10,879 --> 00:02:15,760 result in particular and exceptional 53 00:02:12,879 --> 00:02:18,239 practical difficulties to or exceptional 54 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:20,560 and undue hardship upon the owner of 55 00:02:18,239 --> 00:02:23,360 such property. The board is hereby 56 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:26,560 empowered to authorize upon an appeal 57 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:28,959 relating to such property a variation 58 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,120 from strict application as to relieve 59 00:02:28,959 --> 00:02:33,280 such difficulties or hardships. 60 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:36,000 » Thank you. Would you please read uh 61 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:39,840 docket 2439 into record? 62 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:43,280 » Will uh docket 2439 is an application by 63 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:46,239 John and an Piaza. Am I correct? 64 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:50,400 Property owners of 28 Elm Place. The 65 00:02:46,239 --> 00:02:53,200 property is located within the A4 7500 66 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,200 ft² residence district. The applicant is 67 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:59,480 requesting a variance from municipal 68 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,480 code section 53.078 69 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:06,080 N in order to build an accessory 70 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:09,920 structure/swimspa 71 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,519 2.5 ft from the side of the lot line or 72 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:14,000 west property line. 73 00:03:11,519 --> 00:03:17,920 » Thank you, Mr. Bontriger. 74 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:20,640 Uh yes, for uh testimony, I would like 75 00:03:17,920 --> 00:03:22,560 to ask that exhibits one through 10 be 76 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:26,239 included as part of record. That's nine 77 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:28,560 paper exhibits that will be 78 00:03:26,239 --> 00:03:31,200 » Thank you. 79 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,200 Um who's who's here? 80 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,720 » We call 81 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,400 » Mr. Winkler, would you please raise your 82 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,680 right hand? Do you solemnly swear that 83 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:38,959 the testimony you're about to give is 84 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,599 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 85 00:03:38,959 --> 00:03:40,159 but the truth? 86 00:03:39,599 --> 00:03:41,840 » I do. 87 00:03:40,159 --> 00:03:43,200 » Thank you. Please go ahead. 88 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,840 » State your name for the record. Evan 89 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,200 Winkler. 90 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,599 » Are you employed by the city of West 91 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,319 Gro? 92 00:03:45,599 --> 00:03:47,760 » Yes. 93 00:03:46,319 --> 00:03:48,799 » What's your position? Uh 94 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,239 » City planner. 95 00:03:48,799 --> 00:03:50,720 » And what are your duties as a city 96 00:03:50,239 --> 00:03:53,200 planner? 97 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,799 » Uh to review uh building permits, uh 98 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,000 presentations for board of adjustment as 99 00:03:54,799 --> 00:03:56,560 well as presentations for planning 100 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,080 commission. 101 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:02,000 » Through your work with the city, are you 102 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,319 familiar with uh 28 Elm Place? 103 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:04,080 » Yes. 104 00:04:02,319 --> 00:04:04,400 » Is that property within city limits? 105 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,319 » Yes. 106 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:10,080 » In which zoning district is it located? 107 00:04:06,319 --> 00:04:12,000 » A4 7500 ft residence district. What is 108 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,200 the applicant's request in docket number 109 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:15,120 2439? 110 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:18,880 » The applicant is requesting a variance 111 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:22,079 to uh the 5yard foot uh setback for 112 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,840 accessory structures uh for a leviance 113 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:25,680 of 2.5 ft. 114 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:26,400 » And which code section applies to that 115 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:31,560 request? 116 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:31,560 » Uh this section is section 53.078N. 117 00:04:31,759 --> 00:04:35,199 » Can you describe the current condition 118 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:37,840 of the property? Yeah, the current 119 00:04:35,199 --> 00:04:40,400 condition is um there's a single family 120 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:43,840 dwelling um that was recently remodeled 121 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:47,840 as well as having a detached accessory 122 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:49,759 garage constructed. Um and uh it's at 123 00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:53,120 the end of a culde-sac um which I can 124 00:04:49,759 --> 00:04:55,919 get into more during the presentation. 125 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,280 Uh are there any existing variances on 126 00:04:55,919 --> 00:05:00,160 this property that you're aware of? 127 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:02,240 » No. 128 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,479 And uh as part of the current condition 129 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,320 is the the request that's being made is 130 00:05:04,479 --> 00:05:09,919 that pursuant to an already existing uh 131 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,039 um project something that's been 132 00:05:09,919 --> 00:05:14,080 completed or not yet? 133 00:05:11,039 --> 00:05:16,720 » Correct. It is completed. 134 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:19,280 » Can you explain the uh how the variance 135 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,560 uh would would allow this to be come 136 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:23,280 into compliance? 137 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,680 » Yeah. So uh currently the swim spa is 138 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:30,240 set back at 2 and 1/2 ft from the 139 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:31,919 sideyard. Um so providing a variance um 140 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,759 essentially alleviates that fiveyard 141 00:05:31,919 --> 00:05:35,120 setback requirement. 142 00:05:33,759 --> 00:05:38,160 » Do you have anything else to add? 143 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,919 » Um I do. I have a presentation. 144 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,919 » Um it's not the right time. Go ahead. 145 00:05:39,919 --> 00:05:42,919 » Okay. 146 00:05:45,843 --> 00:05:48,400 [cough and clears throat] 147 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:53,720 All right. So again, this is um case 148 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,720 2439 located at 28 Elm Place. 149 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,919 Um and again as has already been stated 150 00:05:57,759 --> 00:06:02,320 the board powers are um they have the 151 00:05:59,919 --> 00:06:04,800 ability to grant exceptions to the code 152 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,039 uh based on exceptional narrowness sha 153 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:10,400 shallowess or shape of a specific piece 154 00:06:07,039 --> 00:06:13,039 of property um as well as exceptions uh 155 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:15,120 related to topographical conditions um 156 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:18,120 or conditions of a specific piece of 157 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,120 property. 158 00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:24,800 uh this property or the request of the 159 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:27,039 appellant is to um have a 2.5 ft 160 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,759 sideyard setback for their accessory 161 00:06:27,039 --> 00:06:33,199 structure. Uh it's located in the A4 162 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:36,560 7500 dwelling district. Um and the 163 00:06:33,199 --> 00:06:39,600 section uh requesting of or requested of 164 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,280 the variance is section 53.078N 078N uh 165 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,400 which is the development standards for 166 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:45,199 accessory structures 167 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,919 » And and that is the 2.5 ft is in lie of 168 00:06:45,199 --> 00:06:47,120 what 169 00:06:45,919 --> 00:06:48,960 » In lie of five feet 170 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,560 » Is it five but for an accessory 171 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:50,960 structure six for a primary structure 172 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:51,520 » Correct 173 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,039 » Okay thank you 174 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,319 » Yep 175 00:06:53,039 --> 00:06:58,160 » So the reason we treat swim spas as an 176 00:06:56,319 --> 00:07:01,520 accessory structure is because of the 177 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,680 building code so the 2015 international 178 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,319 swimming pool and spa code uh there was 179 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,319 amendments made and explicitly states 180 00:07:06,319 --> 00:07:10,880 that swimming pools and spa shall comply 181 00:07:08,319 --> 00:07:13,599 with accessory structure setbacks uh 182 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:15,680 required of the zoning code. Um it also 183 00:07:13,599 --> 00:07:18,479 addressed lot coverage. Um swimming 184 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:21,759 pools and spas are not included um in 185 00:07:18,479 --> 00:07:22,880 the total foot uh footage coverage of um 186 00:07:21,759 --> 00:07:24,160 accessory structures. 187 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:25,599 » I'm sorry. Is that a building code 188 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,199 requirement or our requirement? 189 00:07:25,599 --> 00:07:30,240 » Well, so it's a building code that 190 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:31,520 references uh the need to follow the 191 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,160 zoning code. Okay. 192 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:36,240 » So the zoning code does not require the 193 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,160 swimming pool to be counted as a lot as 194 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,880 lot coverage. Correct. 195 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:41,840 » Thank you. 196 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,720 » Yep. And so flat work which this swim 197 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:46,080 spa sits on all can actually go all the 198 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,880 way to the property. 199 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:51,680 » Yes. 200 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:53,199 » All right. So for some site context, um 201 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,000 this property is located in the central 202 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:57,680 Webster historic district. Um you can 203 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:01,759 see from the aerial um it's 204 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:04,400 approximately 7,900 ft property. Um it's 205 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:08,639 at the end of the culdeac. They also 206 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:11,280 abut um some type of public rideway. It 207 00:08:08,639 --> 00:08:13,759 looks like maybe a path at one time um 208 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,240 on the northwest portion. Uh it's kind 209 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:18,160 of angular in shape along the front 210 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:21,520 front edge of the parcel because it's at 211 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:25,759 the end of the culde-sac. Um so this was 212 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:28,319 actually built in 1915. Um but in 2025 213 00:08:25,759 --> 00:08:30,720 um the homeowners uh started a 214 00:08:28,319 --> 00:08:32,320 significant renovation of this structure 215 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:36,479 uh the dwelling single family dwelling 216 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:40,479 and also built a detached um accessory 217 00:08:36,479 --> 00:08:43,120 garage in in the back. 218 00:08:40,479 --> 00:08:45,600 Now this is kind of where some of the 219 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:47,839 confusion came in and why the swim spa 220 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,360 exists. Um there was a couple of 221 00:08:47,839 --> 00:08:52,880 addendums 222 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:57,200 uh applied for um for the detached 223 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:59,200 garage as well as the swim spa. Um the 224 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:02,800 swim spa 225 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:06,160 was given an email approval by a past 226 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:08,640 staff person. Um although the permit was 227 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:11,680 never issued. However, these other 228 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:14,959 addendums were being granted and were 229 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:17,440 issued um which caused some of the 230 00:09:14,959 --> 00:09:22,399 confusion as to what work could actually 231 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:25,600 be completed under which permit. Um, 232 00:09:22,399 --> 00:09:29,519 so I guess some other things to kind of 233 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:31,120 highlight is that uh part of 234 00:09:29,519 --> 00:09:33,360 construction of a detached garage 235 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,040 requires a storm water management plan 236 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,080 and part of that storm water management 237 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:41,680 plan was uh a significant swale which 238 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:44,560 I've highlighted here um to move water 239 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:47,440 behind the garage towards the easement 240 00:09:44,560 --> 00:09:50,480 uh the MSD easement um to kind of a 241 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:53,680 catch basin. Um, so that really does 242 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:56,160 take up a decent amount of yard. Um, in 243 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:57,920 the images I've tried to highlight 244 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,760 essentially where that swale is and 245 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,680 where the water is moving. 246 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,519 » Now, the swale was required because of 247 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:06,160 the detached garage. 248 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:08,160 » Correct. Yeah. So, our municipal code 249 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:12,320 requires a storm water management plan 250 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:14,240 with uh certain impervious improvements. 251 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:18,800 » And this is just for the lot. This is 252 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,360 not like the community neighborhooding. 253 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,440 » You're right. 254 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,160 » Whale. This is their own person like 255 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:24,320 » Yes. 256 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,040 » Because of the calculations for their 257 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:25,519 own lot. 258 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,920 » Correct. 259 00:10:25,519 --> 00:10:28,920 » Perfect. Okay. 260 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,560 » Um so this is this you can see the plans 261 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:38,160 for the addendum. They have you know the 262 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:41,600 swim swap bubbled out um a 4in concrete 263 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:44,880 slab. Um and so this is what was tied to 264 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:47,680 the email approval. Um, and then the 265 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:50,160 image essentially is showing 266 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:52,320 where that property line is currently. 267 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:55,440 Um, and then neighbors, that's actually 268 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:58,240 the neighbors garage. Um, would be an 269 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,640 existing non-conforming garage that was 270 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,120 there. 271 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,839 » The the garage that's needs to be 272 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,560 painted or I mean I mean 273 00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:05,440 » Strange. 274 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:08,079 » Yes. 275 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,360 » Oh, I see. So that that's actually on 276 00:11:08,079 --> 00:11:10,320 the neighbor's property, 277 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,279 » Correct? 278 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,680 » Oh, okay. 279 00:11:11,279 --> 00:11:14,160 » That's the neighbor to the west. I see. 280 00:11:13,680 --> 00:11:15,760 I see. 281 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,160 » That's not the 282 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,000 » No. 283 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:19,519 » No. 284 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,572 » Well, then old new. 285 00:11:19,519 --> 00:11:22,572 » Correct. [laughter] 286 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:29,640 » All right. So, with that, I guess are 287 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,640 there any questions from the board? 288 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:36,399 » So, that that it your arrows make clear 289 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,160 that the swale is outside the footprint 290 00:11:36,399 --> 00:11:39,920 of that concrete pad. 291 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:43,440 » Yes. 292 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:46,000 And therefore the bearings is needed 293 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:46,720 because if the swale wasn't there 294 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,320 » The drainage 295 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:52,000 » They could scooch it further east and 296 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:53,839 meet the sideyard setback. 297 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:56,160 » Right. So if they would move it further 298 00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:59,160 east it would be impeding the drainage 299 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,160 swell. 300 00:11:59,279 --> 00:12:03,920 » So okay would defeat the purpose of the 301 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:07,000 soil and the drains and all the Yes, I 302 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,000 get it. 303 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,760 Does anyone else have do you have any 304 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:14,000 question Sam? The 305 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,600 » So you mentioned something about an 306 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:20,160 email approval. Can you 307 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:22,160 » Give a little more information on that? 308 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:25,279 » Yeah, I mean we we do have document of 309 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:28,800 this email. Um I didn't include it. I I 310 00:12:25,279 --> 00:12:32,240 don't know. But um so a former staff 311 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:34,399 person uh who was reviewing for zoning 312 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:36,560 explicitly states that the zoning is 313 00:12:34,399 --> 00:12:39,040 compliant and that it would move on to 314 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:42,320 the building plan reviewer um for 315 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:45,440 building code compliance. Um that 316 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:47,680 portion never 317 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,560 it didn't meet code yet. So it never got 318 00:12:47,680 --> 00:12:53,600 completed but there were other permits 319 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,519 like also open and being worked on. Um, 320 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,880 and so when inspectors went out there 321 00:12:55,519 --> 00:12:58,560 and gave approvals, they were giving 322 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,959 approval for things like the detached 323 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:03,120 garage and these other amendments, um, 324 00:13:00,959 --> 00:13:05,200 not explicitly this swim spa, which is 325 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,839 kind of how it came to our attention. 326 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,839 Um, I see. 327 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:16,880 » And unfortunately, that former staff 328 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:19,120 person was wrong in the the zoning was 329 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,560 not. Yeah. 330 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,120 » Does anyone else have any questions for 331 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:26,800 Mr. Winkler before we move on? 332 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,839 Who's here in favor of docket 2439? 333 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,399 » John and 334 00:13:27,839 --> 00:13:33,519 » Okay. So, I need I need you to do it one 335 00:13:30,399 --> 00:13:35,539 at a time. Come up to the podium. 336 00:13:33,519 --> 00:13:35,539 [laughter] 337 00:13:36,794 --> 00:13:39,200 [clears throat] 338 00:13:38,104 --> 00:13:40,720 [snorts] 339 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,240 » Please raise your right hand. Do you 340 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,440 solemnly swear that the testimony you're 341 00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,639 about to give is the truth, the whole 342 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,200 truth, and nothing but the truth? 343 00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:47,200 » I do. 344 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,680 » Thank you. Please go ahead. Um, describe 345 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:52,399 your request. My my name is John Piaz 346 00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:55,760 and we're residents uh and owners of 28 347 00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:58,720 Elm Place and Evan did a pretty good job 348 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,560 of describing the property. It is a very 349 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:03,519 limited property. It's a beautiful place 350 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:06,399 now, but there's not a lot of room with 351 00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:08,800 the 20 foot MSD easement and then 352 00:14:06,399 --> 00:14:11,440 there's an additional diagonal easement 353 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:14,399 and that forced the garage to be shoved 354 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:16,399 forward and into the center of the yard. 355 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:18,399 And then with the garage and the 356 00:14:16,399 --> 00:14:20,880 driveway and the impervious materials 357 00:14:18,399 --> 00:14:23,040 that required the water mitigation plan 358 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:27,120 which has a swale through the property 359 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:30,000 to a detention pond behind the garage. 360 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:33,519 All those things basically limited where 361 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,959 we could put it. Um and we thought we 362 00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:36,800 were doing everything according to the 363 00:14:34,959 --> 00:14:39,440 book. We've done a big project here and 364 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:42,240 we've had an architect and a GC and 365 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:45,680 we've done all the permits and we but 366 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:48,240 this fell outside my GC's project and he 367 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:52,079 said just go up and put in a swim spa 368 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:55,040 permit and I did that. Um and it was 369 00:14:52,079 --> 00:14:56,720 Pashant Peoples back at that time. She 370 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:59,519 required that I get a notorized 371 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,560 statement uh saying that I recognize the 372 00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:04,639 fact that my concrete being on the MSD 373 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,560 easement if they needed to remove it 374 00:15:04,639 --> 00:15:08,560 they weren't going to pay me for that. 375 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,800 Right. And I I did that and notorized it 376 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,760 and and she did it via email say that 377 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:15,519 okay it's zoning's approved. It'll go to 378 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:18,560 planning for review and if there are any 379 00:15:15,519 --> 00:15:22,560 questions Jim Bailey would reach out. 380 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:24,320 He didn't. Um, and I guess shame on us, 381 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,399 but that's just our lack of knowledge on 382 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,160 on the procedures perhaps, but 383 00:15:26,399 --> 00:15:30,240 everything was moving forward, right? We 384 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,360 we built the garage and a lot of 385 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,279 inspections and uh and everything. So, 386 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:37,839 we thought everything was okay until May 387 00:15:35,279 --> 00:15:39,519 and we realized it wasn't okay, but it 388 00:15:37,839 --> 00:15:41,680 is there. [laughter] 389 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:44,399 And uh I think in your packet you'll see 390 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,160 that email from Pashant and hopefully 391 00:15:44,399 --> 00:15:48,079 you'll also see that the neighbor whose 392 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,680 property we if you want to call it 393 00:15:48,079 --> 00:15:52,000 encroach we're not encroaching on their 394 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:54,079 property but on the setback they they've 395 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,920 signed a a simple document saying hey 396 00:15:54,079 --> 00:15:59,680 they have zero issues at all with that. 397 00:15:55,920 --> 00:16:01,199 They're they're in support of it. Um and 398 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:04,560 if you look at where we positioned it 399 00:16:01,199 --> 00:16:06,000 it's probably the most uh unobtrusive 400 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,160 place to have it right. just behind 401 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,160 their garage and and and it is humorous 402 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:12,480 that their garage is only 2 feet off 403 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,720 that property line. So, and I have 404 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:16,639 another garage that's that's exactly on 405 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,480 my property line. So, I'm quite 406 00:16:16,639 --> 00:16:21,360 accustomed to things being very close to 407 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:24,480 my property, but here I am with a a 408 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:27,120 silly swim spa that is causing me this 409 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,720 problem. But um 410 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,560 we wouldn't I don't know that we could 411 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:34,000 have found another way to position it 412 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,079 without interfering with uh the the 413 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:41,199 swale and the water mitigation and 414 00:16:36,079 --> 00:16:43,279 everything. Um so here here we are. I 415 00:16:41,199 --> 00:16:45,519 think that's 416 00:16:43,279 --> 00:16:47,759 that's probably all I I can add to this 417 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:50,639 and much of it is redundant and a 418 00:16:47,759 --> 00:16:51,600 repeat. Evan, I'm sorry for that. 419 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:52,880 So, 420 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,959 » I don't know about anybody else, but 421 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,440 when I drive down Elm Place, I always 422 00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:58,720 feel like everything's very, very close. 423 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,160 It's all very tight. 424 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,160 » It is. Yes, ma'am. 425 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,799 » That little subdivision. [laughter] 426 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:06,319 Um, does anyone have any questions for 427 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,640 uh 428 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:10,240 So, so 429 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,000 the 430 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,839 So, you don't you're not you're 431 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,839 confident that MSD is not going to have 432 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:18,880 to dig this up much? 433 00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:21,520 » Well, let's say I'm hopeful. I I I 434 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:24,400 purposely though my the electrical is 435 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:26,480 all on my property. It's only concrete 436 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,640 on on theirs. Well, it's my property, 437 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,799 but on their easement of my property. 438 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,480 So, I I you know, we we pulled it 439 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:34,240 forward just enough that 440 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,480 » I could keep about a foot well, it's 441 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,240 about a foot of the concrete on on our 442 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,240 outside their easement and the 443 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,799 electrical is outside their easement. 444 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,320 So, if they required to dig, it's, you 445 00:17:42,799 --> 00:17:46,240 know, it's I'm going to spend some money 446 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,440 moving a spa out and I'll lose some 447 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:52,919 concrete. But uh I'm hopeful. I don't 448 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,919 know about confident. 449 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:59,039 » Does anyone have any questions for 450 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:00,880 Mr. Piaza? 451 00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:04,160 » Real quick, did you say you have your 452 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:06,799 neighbors? Um 453 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,679 » Yeah, Emily Emily and Chase. 454 00:18:06,799 --> 00:18:10,799 » Yeah, it's 455 00:18:07,679 --> 00:18:12,480 » It's in the last page. 456 00:18:10,799 --> 00:18:14,160 » Okay. Yeah, it's on the last 457 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:16,000 » I mean they've indicated here where they 458 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,960 live in relation. They are appear to be 459 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,760 the affected neighbors. 460 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:24,320 » So basically, can you describe this uh 461 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,720 swim spa? I mean, how far above grade is 462 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,440 it? 463 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:30,720 » It sits about a 4T It's about four feet 464 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:33,600 tall and it's uh 7 feet by 14 ft. So 465 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,760 it's think of it as a double uh hot tub 466 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,480 and one end is a hot tub effectively. 467 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:38,640 It's 468 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,080 » Got jets and the other end is for 469 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,720 swimming and exercising. 470 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,679 » Okay. So it's so it's like it you're 471 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,360 swimming against cur 472 00:18:43,679 --> 00:18:48,799 » The jets, right? the Jet against the 473 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:50,880 Jets. And it's uh and for us, 474 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,240 we didn't realize the structure side of 475 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,600 that being considered a structure, 476 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,240 right? I think I would have known, okay, 477 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,160 a garage or whatever, but but we didn't 478 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,600 at the time realize that when we first 479 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:03,799 started the process, we didn't realize 480 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:03,799 it was subject to the same setbacks. 481 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,039 » John, do you have any question? 482 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,559 » I have a question. 483 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:10,160 » Um 484 00:19:08,559 --> 00:19:11,280 Miss Piazu, do you want to come up and 485 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,200 speak 486 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:15,919 » Or or do you think he's he's made the 487 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:20,760 points? Okay. All right. 488 00:19:15,919 --> 00:19:20,760 » Is there um anyone online? 489 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:27,760 » Okay. Um is that per Is there anyone in 490 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:32,960 in the audience or online who'd like to 491 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:36,240 speak in favor of docket 2439? 492 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:39,039 They're not raising their hand. 493 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,320 » If you're able to raise your hand or 494 00:19:39,039 --> 00:19:42,240 » Well, yeah, you can you can 495 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:45,039 » I think you can see it. 496 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,880 » Oh. Ellen. 497 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:49,840 » Ellen, can you hear us? If if you would 498 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,880 like to speak, um, 499 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,080 » You're going to I'm going to have to 500 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:55,440 swear you in, but if you'd like to 501 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:58,160 speak, this is the time. 502 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:59,360 » Okay. Um, do you solemnly swear that the 503 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,640 testimony you're about to give is the 504 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,760 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 505 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:02,799 the truth? 506 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:06,160 » Yes. 507 00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:08,480 » Okay. And, um, you're Ellen and 508 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,480 do can you tell us where, um, what's 509 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:13,919 your interest in this request? 510 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:15,520 » I live at 16 Elm Place. Okay. 511 00:20:13,919 --> 00:20:19,679 » Um, 512 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:22,400 I would be not in favor of it. Um, we 513 00:20:19,679 --> 00:20:25,200 live in a historical district. 514 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:29,440 Um, I think that 515 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:33,039 28 Elm Place has taken 516 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:38,600 have gone above and beyond not following 517 00:20:33,039 --> 00:20:38,600 the rules and so I'm against it. 518 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:47,480 » Okay. Does anyone have any questions 519 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,480 for Miss Brook? 520 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:55,039 Do you want to Do you want to um uh do 521 00:20:53,039 --> 00:20:56,960 you want to what what what what do you 522 00:20:55,039 --> 00:20:59,039 believe they've not followed the rules 523 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,039 about? I'm just curious. 524 00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:03,919 » Um 525 00:21:01,039 --> 00:21:07,200 there's I think there was some issue 526 00:21:03,919 --> 00:21:10,200 about the detached garage. 527 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,200 um 528 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:16,080 you know that it's oversized that it's 529 00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:19,039 has an apartment above 530 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:21,679 a lot of things that I think were 531 00:21:19,039 --> 00:21:26,880 maybe shoved under the rug that you know 532 00:21:21,679 --> 00:21:31,919 maybe I was not aware of as much and so 533 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:35,760 again I think you're putting a spa 534 00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:38,799 and it's you know 535 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:40,720 not 5 feet or six feet away from 536 00:21:38,799 --> 00:21:44,200 property. Why wouldn't you put it closer 537 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,200 to your house? 538 00:21:45,039 --> 00:21:47,200 » Okay. Thank you. 539 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,280 » Okay. 540 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,880 » Anything else you'd like to add? 541 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,840 » Uh, I don't think so. 542 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:56,880 » Okay. Thank you. Um, Evan, do you want 543 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:58,240 to speak to the whether the the issue of 544 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,799 the garage? I did notice there was a 545 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:03,200 half, you know, there was there was some 546 00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:05,280 it looked like there was a second story 547 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,760 or partial second story. 548 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:11,039 So that is permitted by our zoning code. 549 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:14,320 Um that project went to the ARB twice I 550 00:22:11,039 --> 00:22:17,039 believe. Uh first for the original plans 551 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:20,480 but then also for an addendum. Um now 552 00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:22,640 our code does restrict uh like dwellings 553 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,480 above a detached garage pretty heavily. 554 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,200 So they're not permitted to be rented 555 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,799 out. It could only ever be like if 556 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,960 people were living in it only. It could 557 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:35,600 only ever be two people. They have to be 558 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:36,880 related um or employed by um the owner. 559 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,559 » Servants quarters. 560 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:42,080 » Servants quarters. I've heard them use 561 00:22:38,559 --> 00:22:44,960 those nanny's quarters too. Um but yeah, 562 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,559 so um it it is compliant. It has been 563 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:49,280 through appropriate approvals. 564 00:22:46,559 --> 00:22:50,720 » Okay. And it did not need to seek any 565 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,000 variances through this board. 566 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:52,960 » Not that I'm aware of. Yeah. 567 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,640 » I mean I I 568 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,120 » I mean I to me it's not relevant to this 569 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,000 case, 570 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:01,520 » Right? I'm just I just want to important 571 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,440 part like true 572 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:05,200 » There's a problem with this variance 573 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,000 that's what the discussion should be 574 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,840 » That is true 575 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,320 » Related to anything else 576 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:13,679 » Okay 577 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,919 » Before we move to u ex to close session 578 00:23:13,679 --> 00:23:18,880 does anyone I mean executive session 579 00:23:15,919 --> 00:23:21,039 does anyone want to make any uh want to 580 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:25,320 ask any any additional questions of the 581 00:23:21,039 --> 00:23:25,320 either the staff or the applicant 582 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,120 » Okay I'm good 583 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,960 » We have a motion to move into executive 584 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,000 into executive session. 585 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,120 » So moved. 586 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,840 » Second. 587 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:37,360 » Second. 588 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,880 » All in favor say I. 589 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:41,679 » I. 590 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:44,240 » Do we um can we get a motion regarding 591 00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:49,039 2439 so we can start discussion? 592 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:50,400 » I move approval of uh of u uh 593 00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:52,960 » 2439 594 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,360 » 24 of docket number 2439. 595 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,280 » Second. 596 00:23:53,360 --> 00:23:57,280 » I'll second. 597 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:59,760 » Any discussion? 598 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:02,240 I mean, I I think the circumstances of 599 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,799 this lot are unusual 600 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:08,400 uh with the easements and the drainage 601 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:12,000 swale and the shape of the lot overall. 602 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:14,880 And I think that merits a variance. 603 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:17,840 » See, I would I would say that the 604 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:21,200 drainage flail and the MSD easement make 605 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:23,200 it re create a hardship. I'm not sure 606 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,159 that, you know, there's lots of lots 607 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,760 that aren't a whole lot wider than this 608 00:24:26,159 --> 00:24:31,039 in Webster Groves. You know, I think I 609 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:33,600 live in one. Um, but 610 00:24:31,039 --> 00:24:35,919 » Like the aperture to the right away is 611 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,840 » Well, but but that's not really that's 612 00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:38,400 not really an issue in this variance, 613 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:38,960 you know. 614 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,627 » No. 615 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,647 » Um, I mean, it's the 616 00:24:41,627 --> 00:24:43,647 [laughter] 617 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,279 » Does anyone else have any 618 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,159 » No, I I would absolutely concur. I think 619 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:52,880 the the geography, the shape of the lot, 620 00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:56,400 uh the fact that uh MSD has an easement 621 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:58,559 there that is that is not common. Um has 622 00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:02,320 really precluded 623 00:24:58,559 --> 00:25:04,480 uh the the owner's uh ability to put 624 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,559 this where they might like to have it. I 625 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:08,559 think it's a clever decision. Um, I'm 626 00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:10,880 sorry that there was misunderstanding 627 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:12,880 and that's unfortunate that of course I 628 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,120 don't think you know if misunderstanding 629 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,520 isn't the issue here but the issue is 630 00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:20,159 that I think there is a hardship here 631 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,440 and that I think the request is is very 632 00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:23,120 reasonable. 633 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,440 » Andrew, do you want to make any 634 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,360 comments? 635 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,880 » Yeah, I I guess where I struggle with it 636 00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:32,960 is the the swale isn't something that 637 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:35,840 was an existing condition, right? It was 638 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:38,000 something they created um because of 639 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,600 their improvements that were 640 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:45,480 constructed. 641 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:45,480 So they've created their own hardship. 642 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,600 True. 643 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,720 But they would have had to have a they 644 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,159 would have had to have off- streetet 645 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:58,720 parking because there's no way they 646 00:25:54,159 --> 00:26:02,320 could park um you know park park on the 647 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:05,279 street or um 648 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,880 » The swale and the detention pond were a 649 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:08,799 condition of having the garage. 650 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,400 » Right. Right. True. But I think he's 651 00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:10,799 he's you know, 652 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:12,960 » Well, 653 00:26:10,799 --> 00:26:14,880 » And while they wouldn't have had don't 654 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:17,679 necessarily have to have a garage, they 655 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,320 would have had to pave that back area 656 00:26:17,679 --> 00:26:21,120 and have some area for for parking 657 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,120 » Vehicles to park. 658 00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,520 » Yeah. I I mean, I agree with that, Deb, 659 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:24,799 but 660 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,720 » Parking space behind the building. 661 00:26:24,799 --> 00:26:31,279 » You know, I guess what I'm saying is 662 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:33,600 to build the structure that was 663 00:26:31,279 --> 00:26:36,240 permitted, they were required to build 664 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:39,360 the swale. 665 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:42,559 those things were in place and that was 666 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:45,440 a stipulation of being able to build the 667 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:48,159 garage. And so 668 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,400 if that does not leave room for other 669 00:26:48,159 --> 00:26:52,559 things on their property, 670 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,679 that was a hardship created by their 671 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:56,679 decision to build the garage. 672 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:01,120 » Look at it that way. 673 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:04,640 » Can you talk about the email on October 674 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:06,720 21st? How much does that 675 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,840 play into decision making? 676 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:12,159 » Well, so the reality is that um the only 677 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,440 way of of variance could be requested to 678 00:27:12,159 --> 00:27:14,159 through the process. That's why we're 679 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,360 here. 680 00:27:14,159 --> 00:27:20,240 » Um the email itself can't grant a 681 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:23,279 variance. It's not a staff decision. Now 682 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,799 that said, um you know, we're we I think 683 00:27:23,279 --> 00:27:27,520 we consider that when we're considering 684 00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:29,120 hardship in this situation. um you know, 685 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,600 somebody's attempted to do this the 686 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:35,600 right way and and towards I think at the 687 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:37,760 very least it shouldn't um 688 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,279 you shouldn't be considering the fact 689 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,799 that this is an already done thing as a 690 00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:44,600 negative towards the applicant because 691 00:27:40,799 --> 00:27:44,600 it was only done because 692 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:50,240 » I would agree. 693 00:27:47,279 --> 00:27:53,679 I mean, I would be more aligned with 694 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:56,240 that as kind of the hardship of like 695 00:27:53,679 --> 00:28:00,000 they believe they had approval and they 696 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:03,320 went ahead with the construction and now 697 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,320 it exists. 698 00:28:07,919 --> 00:28:12,840 » Are we ready to to vote on this? 699 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,200 » All in favor of docket 2439, please say 700 00:28:16,159 --> 00:28:17,520 I. I 701 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,760 » I 702 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:21,760 » All opposed. 703 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,679 » Uh, could you please pull the board? 704 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,159 » I will. Uh, Debbie Selberg, 705 00:28:23,679 --> 00:28:25,279 » I. 706 00:28:24,159 --> 00:28:25,679 » Uh, John Bur, 707 00:28:25,279 --> 00:28:26,799 » I. 708 00:28:25,679 --> 00:28:27,440 » Jennifer Gates, 709 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:29,360 » I. 710 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,840 » Uh, uh, Andrew Potz, 711 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,760 » I. 712 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:34,000 » And Randy Sprag, I 713 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,960 » Your variance request has been has been 714 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,559 approved. Please see city staff during 715 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,559 regular business hours for your next 716 00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:42,880 steps. 717 00:28:40,559 --> 00:28:44,640 » Thank you. Is there any other business 718 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,200 before the board tonight? Uh, 719 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,720 » No additional business. 720 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,000 Do you have a inkling of whether we'll 721 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,279 have an August meeting or not? 722 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,279 » It doesn't look like we will at this 723 00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:55,919 point. Yeah, 724 00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:57,919 » That wouldn't be the end of the world. 725 00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:59,600 We have a mo. Are we ready for 726 00:28:57,919 --> 00:29:01,679 » I move we adjourn? 727 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,720 » Second. All in favor? 728 00:29:01,679 --> 00:29:06,360 » I. 729 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,360 » Thank you very much.