Sure.
Nope.
Good morning, everybody. Welcome to the Chesa County Board of Elections meeting. Today is Friday, December 5th, and it is 10.03 AM.
My
name is Josh Maxwell. Joining us online, Commissioner Mary Moskowitz, and to my right, Commissioner Eric Roe. Together, we are your Board of Elections.
In addition to meeting in person, we are keeping the virtual attendance option to provide flexibility for anyone who wishes to be part of our public meetings, whether it be in this room or on computer or phone. As for all public meetings, this meeting is being recorded for broadcast on the county's website, chisco.org.
If you're making any formal presentation to the board, or if you wish to make a public comment today, we just ask that if you're attending in person, you come forward to this podium and just state your name before speaking. If you're attending via Zoom, please use that raise your hand feature and wait to be recognized to give public comment. We will now call the meeting to order.
And I'll ask Mr. Andrew Kreider, our newest employee, newest member of our team, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.
Interesting.
Liberty.
Thank you, Mr. Carter.
Alright.
announcements today, uh, we're gonna start with an update on the independent investigation into the Election Day poll book error.
And for that, Mr. Byronman's gonna kick us off.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning, everybody, uh, for the record, David Beierman, CEO for Chester County.
Three weeks
ago, we announced
our timeline for the steps we were going to take to address the serious errors that occurred on Election Day this year. And one of the steps that we announced was this meeting, that we would provide an update at this meeting here today. So that's one of the reasons why I'm here right now.
I'm going to talk about this from a high-level perspective before I introduce Megan Moser, who, as CXO is directly oversight over voter services, who'll provide more details about the investigation itself.
I want to start off by saying that we are all, every person in this room created as fallible human beings.
We all make mistakes.
A serious error occurred here. Okay, Mr. Barman, excuse me,
a lot of you who have been to these meetings for a long time, and we really appreciate the attention of the county government, one of the things we always try to do, and sometimes we do fail, but make sure that we allow anybody, and I imagine a lot of people are going to get up to speak, that we all allow them that opportunity and respect that. So I appreciate it for this meeting moving forward.
During public comment and also during Mr. By Ms. Moser's presentation, we allow them to have their time, and then we'll make sure everyone else gets the same respect moving forward.
Thank you. Please go, Mr. Barman.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We all make mistakes, and in this case, a serious error.
occurred. Um, and I want to acknowledge right off the bat, we understand the anger that a lot of people feel about that, and we share the frustration that a lot of people feel about that.
Many have asked how this problem occurred, and I think the more important question is.
Why was it not caught?
We all make mistakes, but one of two things is true.
Either we had insufficient controls to prevent one person's mistake from snowballing into what happened on election day.
Or the procedures we had in place were not followed. We understand that neither of those explanations are acceptable to the senior management team.
presumably to our Board of Elections, and certainly to the voters of Chester County.
We did not live up to our own expectations or to the understandably high-level performance the Chester County voters expect of us.
So that's what we're focused on.
I think it's possible to share two contradictory thoughts. One is there was a serious mistake and error that occurred here.
And two is that we have a number of very conscientious Chester County employees who worked very hard in the weeks after the election.
to work the problem, to process over 2.5 times the number of provisional ballots that have ever been cast in any election, including presidential elections.
and who really dedicated themselves to fixing this problem. So I do want to take a moment just to acknowledge and to thank the people who worked through this process.
So that's where we are. The investigation is underway. It is being conducted efficiently and economically.
by a law firm that we have no past history with, Fleck, Eckert, Klein, McGarry.
They are underway with their process. Megan's going to talk about that. Their investigation findings are due on December 19.
We will take in those findings, and we will have a public meeting in January of this Board of Elections to discuss our findings, to receive feedback from the public.
And to let you know how we plan to proceed.
So with that, I'll conclude my remarks, and I'll pass it over to Megan to talk a little bit more in detail about how this investigation is being undertaken.
Thank you, Mr. Byron. Good morning, everyone. Megan Moser, Chief Experience Officer for the County. I'd like
to provide some more details on the investigation.
Um, and where we are on the timeline with that. So on November 17, as many of you know, the county appointed Westchester-based law firm Fleck Ecker Klein McGarry LLC.
to conduct this independent investigation.
The overarching goal for this investigation is threefold. Number 1, to identify the primary causes and contributing factors of the poll book error to distinguish between human error and systemic deficiencies, and number 3 to recommend improvements to oversight, accountability, and transparency in election operations here in Chester County.
To that end, the following questions.
outline the scope of the investigation. So they are looking at what was the root cause of the production.
of incomplete poll books that led to the emission of third-party voters.
What processes and controls were in place within the Department of Voter Services.
To ensure poll book accuracy, thank you.
How and why did those processes fail?
Where were the processes and controls insufficient, or were they not properly followed?
What other factors contributed to the failure or impeded voter services staff from identifying or reporting concerns, and what caused the significant delays on election day as the county worked to mitigate the issue, and why weren't supplemental poll books delivered to some polling places in a more timely manner?
So those are really the parameters of the scope of this particular investigation.
In terms of where we are with status, the law firm is currently conducting interviews with staff, reviewing electronic communications and the technical system involved in poll book production.
They are on track to complete this investigation by the December 19 deadline.
After which, we will review the findings and recommendations internally, and then as Mr. Beierman noted, schedule a public meeting so that we can share that with all of you.
Those are the updates that I have on the investigation for today.
Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Moser. Um…
Uh, before we get to Director Burston's report, did we share publicly the, um…
I think that we did. The, uh… I just want to be transparent with folks, because I imagine it might come up with public comment.
Uh, the, um, cost and how this will be paid for?
To be shared that publicly? Can you share that, do you mind?
Alright, so I'll share. So it's not to exceed $35,000 for the investigation.
The, uh, it'll come out of the voter services budget, which is in the millions of dollars. Uh, so we have the… we do have those funds budgeted. We get $1.9 million from the state to fund elections. So we'll be able to fund this with the $30,000, not $35,000 out of the voter services budget, so no additional line item.
specific to this investigation. Just so you know, the costs of this up front. And in proportioned to the size of the voter services budget.
Okay. Uh, moving right along. Director Barsoom.
You're notorious, very long-papered.
Report, please.
Good morning, um, Board of Elections. Karen Barsoom, Director of Voter Services.
Um, I'm
going to
give a timeline of, um, prior to elections, election day and thereafter.
Um, so leading up to the election, um, I would like to give a timeline. During the summer, communication was submitted to all municipalities and school districts to confirm.
offices to go on the November ballots.
The circulation periods for nomination papers, nomination certificates, substitute nomination papers, and substitute nomination certificates.
And that in the months of August and September.
Logic and accuracy testing of the voting system was successfully performed and completed in the months of October.
The first large batch of mail-in ballots hit the mailstream on October 2nd.
At the ballot services office, our staff assisted many constituents, including close to 90 voters.
who came to cure their ballot's materials.
There were 13 drop boxes in operation during the two weeks leading up to the election.
On election day. On election day, the poll books did not include the names of third-party voters.
Currently, an independent investigation is being conducted.
All polling places remains open until 10pm with a court order.
I understand that Election Day was especially challenging, particularly for our poll workers.
I want to extend my sincere thanks for your resilience, hard work, and long hours.
Despite a high volume of provisional ballots and the additional hours required due to the court's order, you did an outstanding job.
We can definitely see that in the next step on the road to certification.
The main reasons for the mail ballots not to move forward in the tabulation process were as follows.
Over 100 voters did not sign the declaration envelope.
Over 70 voters did not utilize their secrecy envelope.
over 50 other issues include.
Writing on secrecy envelopes, sample ballots instead of official ballots submitted.
Mismatch of signatures and combination of multiple issues.
Due to the large volume of provisional ballots, additional steps were taken in addition to our regular thorough investigation.
Voter services conducted the 2% statistical recount and the post-election verification testing.
For central tabulation equipment.
One batch was selected for Chester County in the statewide risk-limiting audit.
Leading up to Election Day, voter Services made a few referrals to the district's attorney's office.
Write-in management remains a large component of a municipal election.
Many contests will have an elected official who won via write-in.
A tiebreaker event took place on Tuesday, December 2nd. This event determines the winners in 87 contests.
Which affected over 550 candidates.
close to 50 contests.
We'll have an elected official who won by one vote.
Please keep in mind that during a municipal election year, there are several school districts.
That's cross-county lines.
This means that our results alone do not reflect the final winner of those contests.
Recommendation for certification. On the agenda today, we have resolution, Board of Elections 0925.
To certify the results of the November 4, 2025 municipal election.
Voter Services has completed.
The computation and reconciled all the election materials according to the election codes.
some statistical data.
There were 385,849 registered voters this election.
The total ballast cast was $196,724. That is a voter turnout of 50.98.
More than 50% voter participators.
by in-person voting, 132,026.
Plus, the professional voters of 12,335.
And through absentee, a mail-in was $52,363. That are the, um, successful tabulated ballots.
Then, during the, um, reconciliation process.
There is, I always report on the variance between the tabulated versus the sure numbers.
Um, the Election Day votes cast… first is voter credit is 69.
The mail ballots is at the 10 variants, professional ballots at 64.
In addition to the election code's requirements, voter services performed a thorough reconciliation process.
And there are always some variances due to flea voters.
Deficiencies after the declaration envelope has been removed.
And out of precinct professionals voter credits applying to other, um…
Precincts and stats.
So I want to thank the Voter Services team. You all dedicated to work on this process.
And I want to sincerely thank you for that.
This election cycle brought longer hours, longer days.
A much higher volume than usual. Yes, every one of you stays committed.
through this mission, your perseverance and professionalism made all the difference.
Lastly, I want to thank everyone who supports the Voter Services team.
Leading up to the election, on election day and thereafter, not only during this election.
But during every election, twice a year, it is truly a team effort, and your commitment does not go unnoticed.
Thank
you. Thank you, Director Burston. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. I know the answer, I've asked before, but we might have new people in the room. Can you give reasons for some of these variances?
I know you've gotten it to as low as 7 previously, I think last year, maybe the year before, but why would that happen?
Yeah,
so, uh, variance is different, um, uh, type of ballots have different variances.
Mail-in ballots, for example, if a deficiency is found after the declaration has been removed from these secrecy and the ballots are separated.
If there is a sample ballots, for example, inside a secrecy envelope.
We would not have seen that while the declaration was still attached.
So that voter has voter credits for voting, but when we open the secrecy envelope, it was a sample ballot, and we don't know whose ballot that is anymore, so that would be one more voter credits than vote tabulators.
Thank you. At the poll, it would be, for example, a flea and voter, somebody who comes in the poll.
checks in, receives their ballots, and doesn't place it in the tabulator.
Like, before we had tabulators, it was called a protest vote.
Um, there are other, uh, reasons at the poll. Humans are involved. There was much more, uh, professionals.
So we also saw that maybe a name was on the numbered list of voters.
But not in a poll book or vice versa. That happens every election. Um, we saw that this election, too.
And then for provisionals, um.
We had to scan in 12,000,335.
Um, envelopes, barcodes, um, I know many of the Board of Elections advertised.
That I was done as soon as possible, so we had 25 staffers maybe scanning each 500 or more envelopes in a period of.
probably more than a week, um, to get all those barcodes entered, and if the system didn't save a barcode.
Or they went quick through the envelopes, um, as there was a time constraint to this process.
And that's where that variance would be. And looking back at 2024 versus our variants today in the provisional, that is exactly in line with 2024. We had a variance of 10.
in, um, two towers and some professional ballads.
Now we have a variance of 64 in 12,000.
335, that is stabilitators, but we also scanned in the barcodes of the non-tabulated professionals.
My understanding is that scanning process, due to this error and having to count all these provisional ballots was over 250 hours just of scanning those ballots, is that about right?
It takes, uh,
depending on, uh, how, you know, what kind of scenario it is. It can take up to 3 minutes per professional barcode scanning.
Uh, for the system to, you know, put in all the data, connect the barcodes to the voter.
Um, and then have the system save it and go to the next. Thank you, Director. I think Commissioner Rowe has a question.
Yes. Director Barsoom, thank you for your report today.
So, the variants.
As
I understand it, it is a…
combination of overvotes and undervotes, is that correct?
So, like, credits that were given to voters who did not actually submit a ballot.
Versus.
ballots received where we don't know which voter it was, and then those two are combined to come up with a positive or negative number.
So, the positive or negative wouldn't necessarily be with.
who did or did not submit a mail-in ballot. For example, it would be which one was tabulated versus not.
So the scenario earlier with, um, a declaration envelope giving credits, but then along the line, during the separation of the envelopes, which is the secrecy process.
Then, if there would be a ballot in there, that would be a sample ballot in stats. Here we have one more voter credits than ballot tabulated.
The reverse effects would be if somebody would not have.
scan in a barcode or save that.
Or if somebody came secure, it went from pending to, um…
you know, voter credits, you know, there could be that kind of anomalies.
So, if you have positives and negatives on either side of it, those two are combined, then come up with the variance.
Right.
So the variance that I am giving you is the bottom line from the actual tabulated.
And the voter credits. Variance is purely the bottom line that I gave you. I didn't give the pluses and minus, so if you look at the tabulated versus photocredits.
There is a variance of 10.
Do you know how wide the spans for Election Day mail-in ballots, and provisional ballots are.
That the… I'm looking for how wide the span is that then was.
calculated to come up with the final bottom line variance.
So
there are 230 precincts, right, and every precinct is reconciled and looked at.
Um, so that would be…
That would be the variance. Uh, like, every line item. So if one precinct have a minus one and another has a plus 1, it's 0.
Right? That's
what I'm getting at, so I'm wondering how many… what is the difference between all of the minuses and all of the pluses?
How wide is that? I
would need to pull up a reconciliation spreadsheet. Um, I know that some people in the room have that with them, too.
If
you don't have it, no worries. Um…
Director Barsoom, I'm not here to litigate what happened or how the mistake happened. There's an investigation to get to the bottom of that.
One thing, and I want to thank you for answering my questions offline, because I've had plenty of them.
I want to thank you for giving me so much of your time.
For the first couple of hours of the day, I've heard many reports from people saying that.
If they were an independent voter and their name was not listed in the poll book.
They were asked to.
have their name cross-referenced with a voter list.
a list of all the voters in that precinct, and if their name was on that list, they were asked to provide their.
name, address, and then sign a blank space in the back of a poll book.
I heard a lot of reports of that.
Um, my question is…
Whose
decision was it to.
to have people vote that way rather than provisionally for the first couple hours of the day.
So,
um, directly when Election Day started, um, obviously, um, there was, um, we directly were aware that.
before 7 o'clock, so the first gravitational standard operating procedure is the one that's outlined in the poll book instructions.
Um, that is what was utilized first. There are two standard operating procedures if somebody is not in a poll book.
As this, um, directly seemed to be a large group of voters impacted, we directly went to the standard operating procedure that's outlined in the poll book itself.
Um, and that is the, um, utilizing the tools that are at the polling place.
to navigate through the process, which is, indeed, all polling places had the full alphabetized list of voters.
Where they could see, definitely, if somebody is a registered voter, yes or no, of that precinct.
Seconds would be the, um, the mail-in absentee list to see if this person did request and was issued one. Not if it was voted or not, just purely issued. If it was issued, it would be provisional. If it wasn't issued.
It would be, um, through the process with the ball book.
So,
that… I'm glad you mentioned the mail-in ballots and how that interacts with that process of signing the back of a poll book.
I'm concerned that, hypothetically, someone could have voted.
By signing the back of the poll book and then submitting a ballot the normal way, which goes right into the machine at the precinct.
How do we know for sure that they didn't also submit a mail-in ballot as well?
So,
for the mail-in ballots, because that was referenced, and then again, during reconciliation, that was referenced.
Um, for provisional, for example, in my reports, I stated there were additional.
processes put in place for this election greater than our normal tarot process for provisionals, in which we scanned in directly all.
Um, independent voters, either through those pages, which is not necessarily blank pages in the back of the poll book, just to keep the record straight, it would be, for most poll workers, didn't directly, where.
On the left side to where the alphabetical name would have been written otherwise.
Um, so we did.
Check every poll book.
and see all those manually entries. They got voter credits.
And all the supplementals were scanned in before provisional research was conducted for that precinct.
Which would have captured anyone that actually physically got an in-person voting ballots.
And that once in a tabulator, so that we could cross-reference of any provisional voter, hypothetically speaking, would have come before or after.
That professional would not be counted.
Okay. Did the Department of
State sign off on that standard operating procedure for the first couple of hours of the day?
Where people sign a blank space in the poll book. That procedure is actually… and
I need to reference to the lawyers in the room if that is.
As described in the election codes, but that is a standard operating procedure that's not only the procedure in this county, but in many other counties, because.
us counties, we, you know, collaborate, and we see what procedures are across the board, so…
I fully appreciate the…
desire to help people vote. I mean, we don't want to disenfranchise any voters, and we wanted to come up with a.
quick, efficient way of getting people their ballots so that they could vote them. I guess I'm just concerned that people may have voted twice, or may have voted when they were, in fact, were not eligible.
Um, with the provisional ballot process, there's a vetting, as you and your staff so thoroughly did afterwards.
to go through each of the provisionals and make sure that.
People who voted were eligible to vote. I just want to make sure that nobody for the first few hours of the day.
voted who was not supposed to vote.
And
I, uh, do want to also, um…
make sure that it's correctly on the record in this meeting, the variance between the first initial directive, which was around 7 o'clock when the polls opens.
to the secondary direction, there was, like, 15 to 12… maybe 10, 15 minutes.
before that was changed, obviously, we need to send text messages to all poll workers.
which was done, and then they need to read it, and there might be a delay on that front, but.
before 7.30, that already was readjusted. So, I know that maybe you heard that it was several hours that people utilized a certain process.
But I was definitely not a directive that we continue to communicate and switch to.
What
is the process of issuing directives? Through what media do those directives arrive at the individual precincts? Is there.
A blast email that goes out? Is there a intranet website that the judges of elections can refer to? How do we efficiently.
and timely get that information.
to the parties.
So for, um,
many elections, and even before mail-in ballots, there are different ways on how you can communicate with poll workers.
Mobile is not always the greatest, because there are basements or community centers anywhere where the cell surface is not as.
Well, but the best practices are to, um, communicate by text message.
Uh, which we do through the CHESCO connects, or the Chesconut connects, the Chesco, um.
Afraid system, sorry, we utilize that, so before every election, we designed groups with the Department of Emergency Services.
One group would be roamers, one group is technicians, one judge of self-elections.
And we can send instantly text to all those different groups.
Okay. And that was done a lot during Election Day for different things.
Notice
on your… on your write up here, it says that close to 50 contests.
will have an elected official who won by only one vote. Mm-hmm.
How confident are you that those.
almost 50 contests.
are accurately…
decided.
So
the way how the write-in process works, um, in general.
is that, um, anyone that does a write-in writes in, obviously, a name, or colors the oval.
And next to it, they write in a name. That actually snapshots at little snippets we call this picture is presented to the public directly after the election, or later than Friday.
We posted publicly on the website. So the first process in which the public is.
As part of this process is that if they really want that particular position, they would go on and look at the snippets and be curious how many pictures are with their name, or.
a variation of their name. They can submit a letter of accumulation to the Board of Elections by no later than 9 o'clock the Monday after the election.
So anyone who did that.
Obviously, we know they want the job.
Um, then this election and a general election in Pennsylvania, anyone can win by one vote, or one more than anyone else.
Which technically means you can win by one vote. So if I…
have any person, for that matter, that put their name in there because maybe they don't know who to vote for, or they put their name on there because they can see their own snippet on websites.
They actually gave themselves a chance to become that person.
So then the team for…
more than a week, we are looking at every bucket.
That is going to be decided by write-in, and we are going to look up.
Every person in that bucket, if they are actually a registered voter of the precinct.
If so, they are listed on the, uh…
unofficial results.
Which we had, for example, 26 in the municipality. There were 26 people.
that either somebody in the family or somebody wrote their name in.
26 people that were registered voters of that precinct.
And that was a tiebreaker.
So, um, there's a lot of work that goes in write-in management.
And, um, it is, um…
For
example.
there's something, you know, that we have certain rules of in the election codes.
There's also certain things that are set by the Board of Elections and how we do it here in this county.
Um, we are…
Becky and Rebecca could be assigned the same, right? But now, if there is a mom or a daughter, Becky and Rebecca.
They also can be assigned to the same, because it's our… we are sworn in to give the best interpretation of our findings.
That's why, in the 5-day review period.
opens up, and we present 5 days before this meeting the results to the public.
And then the public can see if there is something that they feel that we need to research again, or they are like, hey, by the way, there is actually.
you know, to people with similar names.
Maybe this was not supposed to be all for this person, and then we communicate with those individuals and we rectify that.
Um,
it's my understanding that there were precincts in the city of Coatesville and in New Garden Township that were almost entirely using the wrong directives. Is that true? And what happened in those places?
I
would need to look at these specific precincts and their materials that they returned.
Okay, got it. Um…
I don't believe I have all that many more questions. I'll turn it over to my colleagues.
Uh,
thank you, Commissioner. I just want to reiterate what you said, Director Bershoum, in that, um.
Maybe you can answer this for me. Do you take great pride in, uh, running elections here in Chester County?
Yes, I know. I would argue, and I think anyone who's met with you, I think you've been in the car with some.
people driving them around, showing them how these elections work. Um, I know how much this means to you, I know how much this means to the staff, um, and, um, know that, um.
Your work is respected, your team's work is respected. Know that in times like this, and we've gone through situations where, um, whether it's human error or something else, uh, working together to solve that problem with different political parties.
different individuals, the smartest people we can find, is how we fix these things moving forward. So I just want to say how incredibly proud I am to have a team that responded the way they did on Election Day. I'm proud that we were able to count those 12,000 third-party votes, all but three, I think, that we could. Know that if your vote was affected by this.
are disenfranchised. Director Barsoom, the entire team, everyone in this room is committed to making sure you never have that experience again here in Chester County. We want to have the best elections in Pennsylvania, if not the country. We failed on Election Day, but we do have the commitment.
And the right minds to make sure that we're in a good place moving forward. So just know that we're sorry. And to all those election workers that say 2 extra hours, we ask for an extra hour. The judge gave us 2.
Um, so, uh, uh, folks who are on their feet all day, limited snacks, limited water.
expected GOME at 8 and have their glass of wine after turning in the ballots, uh, or had to stay an extra 2 hours, and that was incredibly difficult for many of them. Um, I just want to share my thanks, Commissioner Rose's thanks, Commissioner Moskowicz's thanks, and everyone at Voter Services for their hard work, election workers are not thanked enough, and they went above and beyond under very difficult circumstances, not created by themselves.
So just want to end your report by saying thank you and know that we all understand we didn't live up to your expectations, but we are committed to making sure that we never have this experience again.
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Maria?
I think you're free to go.
Oh, I think Commissioner Moskowitz was going to text me if she had a question, but, uh…
She'll… she'll jump in.
All right, we have the minutes of October 31st, Halloween.
I
have a motion. So moved.
I second. Any discussion?
All right, Commissioner Moskowitz gets the second. Any discussion?
Second.
Also,
paper, please say aye. Aye.
Any post? Paying none, motion passes. Up next, public comment on the agenda. On the agendas today is certifying the election. Uh, Ms. Moser, you want to kick off the rules for this?
Absolutely, thank you. At this time, we invite public comment on agenda items only.
If you wish to make a comment on a topic that is not on today's agenda, we ask that you wait for the public comment period that is set aside later in the meeting.
Comments on agenda items should be directed to the Board of Elections, and there is a 3-minute time limit per person.
We thank everyone in advance for remaining respectful and considerate during the public comment process. As a reminder, public comment is not a forum for dialogue or questions and answers. In order to help the comment period run more smoothly, there is a timer with lights on top of the podium. The timer will count down from 3 minutes, and the green light will initially be lit.
When you have 30 seconds remaining, the yellow light will come on to let you know to begin wrapping up your comments. Once the time limit has expired, the red light will come on and you will have to conclude your remarks.
For those appearing via Zoom or on the phone, we will provide a 30-second warning and then let you know when your time has expired. If you'd like to make a comment specific to an item appearing on today's agenda, if you're in person.
Please come to the podium, state your name and your municipality before speaking. If you're connected through Zoom, you can use the raise your hand feature or press star 9 on your telephone keypad. We will start with public comment in person first before moving to comment from those connected through Zoom.
Mr.
Chairman, good morning. My name is Rafi Turzian Township, chair of the Republican Committee of Chester County.
The
municipal election of November 4 was a complete debacle.
And fraught with problems. As everyone is now aware, independents and others were left out of the poll books.
causing chaos and confusion across the county.
Republicans sounded the early alarm that day. What is less clear is when voter services became aware of the problem.
As you've heard earlier, voters were given inconsistent guidance on voting procedures. In some instances, voters were permitted to vote.
By signing a blank page in the existing poll book with their names cross-referenced to a master list at the poll.
No
signature verification.
No check of valid identification.
The directive was then given to pivot to the provisional ballot process.
Many voters were turned away, some who never returned. I personally spent a good part of the day.
Visiting many precincts, and directly heard from citizens.
who were angry and frustrated.
A number of precincts ran out of provisional ballot supplies and supplemental poll books did not arrive until later in the afternoon.
Subsequently, when it was time to review the provisional ballots, appropriate questions were raised about deficiencies in many of the ballots.
Ultimately, this Board of Elections.
In a 2-1 vote, elected to allow.
illegal ballots to be counted in clear violation of the law.
I
want to thank Commissioner Rowe.
We're actually stepping up and doing the right thing and voting against.
those. In the midst of all this.
And in a pathetic and atrocious attempt to blame, shift, and misdirect the public.
Commissioner Maxwell, inexplicably attempted to hang disenfranchisement.
and lay blame at the feet of Republicans.
It was also clear from his social media post that he had already predetermined.
and prejudged how he would rule on provisional ballots.
Before the hearing actually took place.
But
what Commissioner Maxwell doesn't understand.
is that people aren't fooled by his outlandish rhetoric.
They fully recognize that the Chester County government, led by Commissioner Maxwell, bears sole responsibility for disenfranchising thousands of citizens.
across our county. Now, a so-called independent investigation has been launched.
But we have no faith or confidence.
that this investigation will lead to the truth.
The limited scope undermines its validity without fully understanding the negative impact.
to the citizens. It is why we are proposing a truly independent, multilateral commission be formed independent of county government.
to investigate this matter fully.
In recent years, we have
raised legitimate and appropriate questions related to the election process in our county.
You see, we believe in the sacred right of voting and election integrity.
These are fundamental to public trust.
We also believe that the law matters.
And on November 17th, this Board of Elections decided to ignore the law entirely. Your time
has expired. Please conclude your remarks. Thank you.
Today, this Board of Elections will likely vote to certify this election.
Given the multiple and glaring irregularities and gross incompetence that occurred in this municipal election, we do not believe this election can be certified.
And we believe that all reasonable and fair-minded people would agree.
This is about fairness, transparency, and accountability.
Board of Elections, the ball is now in your court. Thank you.
Sandy Berman, Chester County.
Proper oversight of elections has been eliminated.
Since they have been turned over to private corporations.
by the adoption of electronic equipment.
And the outside vendors printing our poll books.
In addition, PA lawmakers have shown they are not serious about election security.
bypassing the unconstitutional.
Act 77.
And this year, we witnessed.
that human error.
Has suspended the rule of law.
So, Chester County has… I have had concerns.
About elections in Chester County since I've been attending these meetings in 2021.
So here's just some brief history.
The statutorily required to present statistical recount is not being performed by hand.
As per law.
In 2021, we saw USB sticks issues that.
were improperly counting the.
the ballots with no clear explanation.
And then, in that same year, staff were placing small marks on the outside margin of the ballots.
that were printed in a different hue than the normal ballots?
Improper handling of the ballots through the machine equipment, which were ripping the ballots. They were taped and still run through the tabulators. We have no idea if they were counted properly.
There are no known concerns with our voter lists, and they have been reported to this county.
With no cooperation.
Video evidence of ballot stuffing at drop boxes and altered Dropbox seal placing chain of custody into question.
Right to Know request denied for CVR reports because we're told they can identify who a.
voter voted for, so we're either… we either have an unlawful election.
Or we're unlawfully denying access to public information.
And then this year, of course, the 75,000 voters that were eliminated. So how can we trust that anything in that poll book was accurate?
It appears we had slightly under 500 inactive voters who voted at a polling location.
Was this form filled out for everyone?
To make sure that we had the proper identification.
I don't know if we need to know the answer to that.
Due to the chaos, um, with the… just the volume of provisional ballots.
and the inexperienced staff.
We don't even know if everything was thoroughly checked.
And now we hear that you want to go to electronic poll books. Well, um…
Fayette County had a problem with their electronic poll books and had to go to paper poll books, so that's not the answer.
And this is just a small compilation of concerns, however… Time has expired, please
conclude your remarks. I
assume this board will certify another election that should not be certified without a full forensic audit.
And election security matters because elections are a matter of local state and national security.
Good morning, I am Diane Hauser of Euclid.
The matter regarding the November 4th
election poll
book issue whereby a recently hired Voter services employee and the newly hired supervisor failed to include unaffiliated voters in the poll books, was compounded.
won several provisional ballots were challenged because some.
judges of elections failed to follow all the procedures required by law.
Furthermore, due to these challenges, Republicans were referred to as bad guys by Commissioner Maxwell.
Election integrity is a non-partisan issue.
The election laws still apply even when the Board of Elections makes the mistake.
Bending the rules sets a precedent for future elections.
When our legislature passes election laws, it is with the understanding that a county will abide by those laws.
Counties, as well as individuals do not get to pick and choose which laws they will follow and which laws they will not follow.
Adhering to the rule of law helps to preserve and ensure the rights of all citizens.
Now, it appears that perhaps due to this debacle, the county may be advancing the use of electronic poll books.
JUDY WOODRUFF After all, if an electronic poll book were missing 75,000 voters.
Then those missing names could just be uploaded.
Sounds like a simple solution, right?
On the contrary, besides being a huge cost to the taxpayer.
The connection of the ePoll books to the internet is bidirectional, so the tallies on the ePo books can be changed remotely in real time via their FirstNet core network connection.
The pole book knows who requested a ballot, who was sent a ballot, who returned a ballot, who voted early, and who voted on election day.
All this information is in the cloud.
Every cloud is hackable.
Through the Department of Motor Vehicles, as well as access given to numerous non-government organizations, it's easy to inflate the voter rolls even with non-citizens.
In addition, the Department of Justice has sued the state for refusing to provide their full statewide voter registration files.
I ask that the county please do their homework before even considering the adoption of electronic poll books. Oh, and by the way.
My husband was a poll worker at Precinct 659. Your time has expired. Please conclude your order. He still has not received.
payment for his services. Thank you.
Uh,
Sally Menninger, Chester County.
How different November 4th would
have been if the poll books had been reviewed by voter services before they were delivered to the precincts.
If that discovery that independent voters' names were not included in the poll books was made earlier, the books could have been reprinted before the election in this situation, avoided altogether.
But even prior, there had been a high turnover among Joes and inspectors of elections, as well as a high turnover.
in the Voter Services Department. These events resulted in lack of training and inconsistencies from precinct to precinct, some with experienced workers and others with newly elected or newly appointed officials.
So the scene was now set.
All election officials experienced, inexperienced, elected, appointed, were forced to deal with this confusion and to explain to voters what happened.
And why they couldn't vote as planned.
As was already said, voters used the master, uh, were allowed to write in their names and use the master list in the beginning, and then the directive.
came from voter services to vote for originally.
Until new poll books arrived. But they didn't arrive until 4pm is the latest 5 p.m. at some polling places.
And because of this, a decision was made to keep the polls open until 10, and these already tired poll workers kept going.
But some voters left when told they couldn't vote by regular ballot, and some never returned.
I was a candidate who knocked every independent voter's door in my township, and although these votes would not have changed the outcome of the election.
I'll never know how many votes I earned that I didn't get.
I'd like to give credit to the poll workers at my precinct who were conscientious, even calling back a neighbor who had forgotten a signature, and she returned and signed.
But we're all poll workers as conscientious.
Guidance from voter services was lacking, and inconsistencies were blamed on the poll workers who received poor guidance.
not voter services, who supplied or did not supply guidance. And at the hearing held on November 17th, after most of the blame was placed on these poll workers for the anomalies that resulted from this huge mistake.
The Department of Voter Services was basically given a free pass.
But it was in this department that the mistake originated. This includes the director, who by nature of the position she holds.
is ultimately responsible, and above her, our elected county commissioners and the new chief experience officer, who was supposed to oversee everything.
And then at the hearing, the decision was made to abandon election law and count unlawful votes because it wasn't the voter's fault that a ballot was completed incorrectly.
Though this may be true, this abandonment sets the precedent to disregard election laws at a future date and undermines further the people's trust in our elections.
And for all of these reasons, I don't feel that you commissioners.
can in good conscience vote to certify this election today.
Thank you very much.
Alright,
got it.
Hello, my name's Karen Gurley.
Uh, I'm sorry I didn't bring prepared remarks,
so if I'm a little bit rambling, I apologize.
Um, I'm the judge of elections at Precinct 617 in Valley Forge Elementary School.
Um, obviously, it was quite a storm on Election Day.
But, um, I just want to say, I felt like…
We were actually very well prepared as poll workers.
to deal with the situation.
Um, I think…
Our voters seemed…
You know, upset.
But understood that we were.
Helping them get their votes.
Written, we had over, I think we had in the end, 70 provisional votes.
that we dealt with in our precinct.
I'm sure others had more.
Uh…
I… I don't think…
any of our voters… I'm sure I can only speak to my precinct.
I don't think any of our voters left.
Maybe that was because we were experienced workers.
Again, I'm only speaking to my precinct.
But I felt like we were very well trained.
It was a big storm, but.
we weathered that storm.
I thought exceptionally well.
I was really proud.
Sorry.
I was really proud of my workers.
That's all. Thank you.
Hi, my name is John Lufer. I'm from New London Township.
On November 5th, I registered as
a Democrat.
Because I was in attendance on November 4th.
And
I'm gonna tell you.
That really upset me what happened that day. Very much so. I had to come back 3 times because I refused to vote provisional ballots. Why?
Because they can be challenged in a court of law. My vote cannot be challenged in a court of law.
End of
story.
I'm gonna tell you right now, it's voter suppression.
It's really disenfranchisement. That is criminal.
criminal! They're whore!
An independent investigation isn't good, though.
Your investigation isn't good enough! It needs a federal investigation where they have the ability to do it.
Okay,
and I'm telling you right now.
ran over in Westchester!
a law firm in Westchester is not!
Independent, or Chester County!
I won't tell you that!
Especially if I get a car hit!
And
you're not hearing from everybody. I have 3 friends!
who said, I went to her, I said, you're the attorney, why aren't you complaining?
They said, I just want to do a list!
This is America, for heaven's shakes!
Journey in 1933?
Just to hold!
This is ridiculous! And I'm telling you right now, there is incompetence, and there is criminality!
And it's cruel, I'm going to prosecute to the highest extent of the law. I only have one thing in this country, one thing, and that is my vote!
And you guys took that sacredness and lived for me!
And I'm not gonna forgive you for that! And I'm gonna tell Claire Washington to look you down! Sir, please direct your comments at the door.
It is a horrible offense!
Okay? In constant criminal, it doesn't matter. She needs to be terminated. Not!
Lynn Strauss, West Goshen Township.
I'm reading an email I sent to Josh Maxwell.
and copied
to the commissioners on 11-19-25.
Regarding the
11-17-25 hearing on provisional voting challenge.
Please enter this email into public record.
Josh, I wanted to take a second to send you a note saying how impressed I was.
That you took responsibility for what happened as the head of the Board of Elections.
I attended the first 3 hours of the hearing in person.
and listened on Zoom to about 45 minutes of the subsequent 3 hours.
I don't know what to say about the solicitor of the Chester County Republicans.
who is trying to disenfranchise all those voters.
Hey folks. Hey, folks. I
listened
politely to everybody else.
I think you can afford me the same.
I don't know what to say about the solicitor for the Chester County Republicans.
who was trying to disenfranchise all those voters.
I've never seen anybody that unprepared and long-winded at the same time.
We will eventually find out what happened with the printing of the poll books.
The only options I can think of are of failing, lack of checks and balances, or sabotage, both terrible.
While the Republican solicitor was fiddling around with her papers, asking questions beyond the scope of the hearing, and generally appearing discombobulated.
You took personal responsibility. At this time in the country, when few take personal responsibility, it was nice to be reminded.
Josh, for the buck stops here, level of integrity.
Hey friends! Hey friends, I promise we'll make sure that everyone has an uninterrupted public comment. I know we're going to have a lot of disagreement throughout this public comment on both sides, on every side, and this is very stressful for a lot of people, so I just encourage you to treat people with respect that we're going to encourage people to have for you when you get up for public comment.
Please continue. As I
worked as a greeter at the West Ocean N3 from 7 to 10.30 a.m, a poll worker at West Ocean N2 from 1.30 to well after 10 PM and was a precinct candidate for inspector, I felt very much affected by the poll books.
By an hour into the hearing, it was extremely evident to everybody, regardless of initial opinion.
that Josh and Marion were interested in getting all the votes to count and finding out what happened.
Thereby ensuring it never happens again. As for the Republican solicitor, I don't know if I've ever seen somebody have what appeared to be such a strong hand throw it away in such a manner. She could have been fighting for the voters.
The democracy hero of the county.
Anyway, once again, thank you, Josh, for being a leader who takes responsibility for what happens under your management. I was impressed.
On
a personal level, your time has expired, please conclude your remarks. On
a personal level, I was also impressed by the grace of the entire Board of Elections and Voter Services.
who offered completely unprepared solicitor.
I would hope that I would be as nice and non-judgmental. I honestly don't know if I would have.
Can I start? Hi, my name's Brett DeLenti. I live in West Marble Township, and I'm speaking on behalf of the League
of Women Voters Pennsylvania.
myself and the executive director of the League of Women Voters of Pennsylvania were present during part of the auditing of ballots.
And we stand behind everything the.
Board of Elections has done to rectify these problems. We support the.
Study that's being done to figure out, again, the root cause of these issues. So we support.
The Board of Elections and support voting in Pennsylvania. Thank you.
My name is Deanna Wei, Chair of the Trudeaufen Township Republican Committee.
And a candidate in the
2025 Chester County election.
Today, I stand here has stunned.
by what has happened this year, on November 4th, Election Day, in the wealthiest county in Pennsylvania, and in the most developed country.
in the world. I saw this land as rule of law.
But I guess it's not here in Chester County.
The level of incompetence and irresponsibility.
shown by our county government in managing our elections is beyond anything.
I could have her imagined.
for the repeated issues that you have in this entire year for 2025 election, from the missing personory.
for primary elections.
And the debacle with the wrong polling books used on November 4.
You should all feel shamed for a lot of the work you do. I mean the incompetent.
Leaders in the voter services, now the hardworking staff members, not the hardworking poll workers.
But incompetent leaders.
If you still understand what the word.
Accountability means.
If you still have a sense of self-respect.
And integrity. You shouldn't resign.
Even
more traveling.
in the behavior of.
My elected official.
Who is supposed to represent your constituents?
Not just the one that you favor.
Instead, Commissioner Judge Maxwell.
acted as though you were a king, pointing fingers at the Chester County Republicans.
spreading a message misrepresented the fact that further divided our community.
I have witnessed so many.
officials from the dictatorship China.
But frankly, your conduct is way worse than many of them.
The hypothesy that you present is unbelievable.
But this is America.
Such behavior is not only inappropriate.
But it's not… it is fundamentally.
incompatible with the duty, responsibility, and ethical obligations as of a Conti Commissioner.
The authority mastered in you is granted by the citizens you represent.
And that authority can be withdrawn when it's abused.
On behalf of the three different Township Republican Committee.
I here submit a formal demand for retraction and apology from Chester County Commissioner Smith, as well as request for his censor.
Thank you.
this is just gonna be short, because it's only common sense.
You cannot certify.
an election when there were so many irregularities.
And what Ms. Wang and the man with the orange hat said.
is right. Whoever was responsible for this, Karen.
Among others, you need to resign. It wasn't the first time.
that something happened like this.
There were independents and other non-affiliateds not in the poll books.
And then in the primaries, the prothronitary wasn't even on the ballot.
You can't certify an election when there were so many irregularities.
That's it.
My name is Linda Moore. I live in Pakopson Township.
That is Precinct 530. I am the Inspector
of elections
there. I work 16 hours on November 4th, and then the next 5 days, observing at Central Scan for about 30 hours. So what I'm about to share is from those observations.
Our precinct had 103 provisionals.
Which really should have only been about 2, because two of the voters, bail-in ballots had not been received.
From 7am till 2.30, our Joe and Minority Inspector had 92 voters.
That may not sound like a lot, but each of those voters, it takes between 10 and 15 minutes individually to process the paperwork. It's a much more complicated and precise way of voting.
That provisional ballots are not meant for mass voting.
It's meant for the exception.
And unfortunately, the exception.
in our voting on the November 4th was large.
We didn't have to make the voters… we didn't want the voters to wait so long, so we set up actual separate tables.
For provisional ballot voters so that they would have their own line. There was a line to process these voters.
Al Schmidt, the Secretary of the Commonwealth, is quoted in cityandstate.com.
Quote, it appears that when Chester County did what's called a poll book extract.
That extract only included voters who registered in the major parties.
It goes on to say, and did not include anyone else.
So the county was sent correct voter data by the Commonwealth, but they did not.
extract the correct information for the poll books.
And how do I… how can I support that position?
We get multiple data points in the poll… at the polls. We have.
The poll books. We have a mail-in ballot list that lists everybody who voted and requested a mail-in ballot.
We have a list of those whose mail-in ballots were received. We have a list of alphabetized registered voters and a list by their addresses.
How is it possible that the last two documents, the documents with the master list and the master list by street.
had all the registered voters, but the poll books didn't. They are drawn from the same data files by the same department. How could one thing be correct and the other not correct?
There are numbers, tallies at the back of those reports that say.
There are so many Republicans, so many Democrats, and so many independents. All one would have to have done was to look at one page and look at the poll books to see, you know, we're short about 40 pages in Precinct 530, which would have represented all the independent voters.
So, how can we correct this? Your time has expired.
Please conclude your remarks.
We need to
have double checks. Perhaps when the Joes come to pick up the poll books, the voter services staff that's handing it off to them.
They sign off together. Yes, that is the correct number of my registered voters. Yes, that has the independent voters. There needs to be another step, and.
if we'd done something like that.
We wouldn't… we would have had a much smoother election. Thank you.
Hello, I'm Paul Salentano.
from Phoenixville westward to…
Precinct 478, I've been
an election
judge for over 26 years. Uh, this document serves as a formal request for corrective action following public statements issued by Chester County Commissioner Josh Maxwell that inaccurately characterized lawful and necessary actions undertaken by the Republican Committee of Chester County in response to the documented irregularities during the November 4.
2025 election to protect public confidence in the electoral process, we submit the following findings and demands, and I speak on behalf of the Phoenixville Republican Committee, whereas Chester County Voter Services failed to deploy proper poll books on November 4, 2025, resulting in more than 12,000 voters being required to cast provisional ballots, over 1,000 provisional ballot outer envelopes were.
discovered unsealed, compromising the ballot security. Such failures by voter services caused voter disenfranchisement before any ballot challenges occurred.
The Republican committee lawfully challenged the compromised ballots as permitted by.
Pennsylvania election law. Commissioner Maxwell publicly and inaccurately accused the Republican committee of disenfranchising voters.
Uh, Commissioner Maxwell's statements misrepresented the facts and politicized what should be a nonpartisan issue. And for these 26 years that I was an election judge, I left my politics at the door. We have a sign at the door saying, no electioneering passes .10 feet from the door, and that's what you do.
The Phoenix Republican Committee has standing in this matter.
Due to participation in affected precincts and reliance on expert election law guidance, and that would be me, and I was on the ballot, therefore the Phoenixville Republican Committee respectfully demands the following corrective actions.
public retraction. Commissioner Josh Maxwell shall issue a formal written retraction published on all platforms where the original statements appeared and entered into the public record.
Public apology.
Commissioner Maxwell shall issue a formal apology directed to the Republican committee. To me, Paul G. Salantano, voters of Chester County, and all poller workers.
Including my hardworking crew.
Oversight Commissioners Eric Rowe and Marion Muskovich.
Along with Solicitor Dolores Troiani shall oversee the creation and enforcement of the retraction and apology.
formal censure. Commissioner Joe and Muskovich shall publicly censure Commissioner Maxwell, enter the censure into public record and issue a press release.
consequences. Failure to take corrective action will further erode public trust in Chester County's election administration should Commissioner Maxwell refuse to correct the record, resignation or formal removal procedures should be pursued. election integrity.
Election integrity is fundamental to public trust. Corrective action is necessary to restore transparency, accuracy, and confidence in Chester County's electoral processes. Thank you very much, and I'd like to have this entered into the record. I'll give you hard copies on my way out.
Okay.
Andrea
Gosselin, Picopson Township.
I observed a small part of the provisional ballot counting process.
None of the provisional ballots from
Precinct 061 West Calm 2.
could be countered because there were no outer envelopes.
Only a stack of green privacy envelopes.
There was no way to determine who would cast those ballots.
69 voters were disenfranchised.
Because their names were not in the poll books.
Printing the wrong poll books was not a mere clerical error.
This was the equivalent of forgetting to order baseballs for the World Series. Where was the employee training?
Where was the management oversight of new employees?
Where were the quality control procedures to make sure the job was done right?
The errors of Election Day were compounded by the Board of Elections voting to count illegal ballots.
In violation of state law.
Counting illegal ballots is not democracy.
There is no justification for ignoring state law.
Not even when the chairman of the Board of Elections is ultimately responsible for the error.
Please do the right thing. Do not certify this election.
Thank you.
Bye.
No
question.
My name is Dolores Triani, I am the solicitor for the Republican Party and proud to be such.
The reason that
I was stopped from talking on November 17 was they don't want you to know what actually happened.
The problem is, I have most of it in writing.
I don't understand what Karen was saying about.
The voting by regular ballot only happened for 10 or 15 minutes. That is just not correct.
I was in constant contact by text message with the Democrat solicitor.
and the county solicitor. All of those doc… all of those text messages.
have a timestamp on them. And I went through, and I have all of those things.
The first initial.
advice, I don't even understand. This is from the solicitor, county solicitor.
Full voter export is at the polls, so poll workers can see who is at the precinct.
Poll workers will compare that to the list of issued MIB. If all verified, voter will sign in on the left side of the page.
They should be able to vote regular ballot. Well, your poll worker manual says that before you can vote regular ballot, if you're not in the poll book, but you are on the supplemental list, is that you have to demand.
an ID, a photo ID. I know that there was only one.
precinct that did that.
So now what's going on?
At 7.36, County Solicitor writes, change of plans. Stay tuned.
7.39.
They're going to vote provisionally, okay?
752, me.
Voter services needs to communicate to the Joes, because they don't know what you're doing.
She replied, they've done that.
803. I'm getting multiple calls from precincts, and the judges do not know, and in fact, the judge in my own precinct doesn't know, but she was smart enough because.
She wasn't a 5-day appointment.
She's been there for a long time, so she knew to go to provisionals.
I point out that this is happening in a different response. Where?
You don't know! You have had to rely on the evil Republicans to give you this information.
And I did.
809, another call from Avondale. The Joes are calling. The lines are all.
are blocked. They're not getting their text messages. And I know that at first text message came out from voter services, I believe it was 7.59.
I didn't bring that with me, I just have a brain like that.
Okay, 7.59, thank you. 7.58.
10.35, me.
I'm hearing from different.
There's supposed to be precinct, so I left out a word, that they are still allowing people to vote regularly, even though they are not in the poll book.
Your
time has
expired, please conclude your remarks. Sure. The
Democrat solicitor stated she was also hearing that.
1043, your county solicitor said, that's probably what happened.
You now have direct conflict between what we were just told.
And this is 4 hours into this.
process where unverified voters were voting by regular ballot, and I could go on, but you don't want to give me any more time, because you don't want people to know what really happened.
I do want…
Mm-hmm.
asking that you make part of the record a letter that I emailed today. I have copies. This is what's called a preservation of evidence letter. It tells you not to destroy, alter any documents.
And it lists the items that I believe will be needed when we have an independent investigation.
Steve Brown, I have 2 observations because it wasn't really mentioned in some of the other comments that were made.
First is, uh, the, uh.
review that the lawyers from Westchester are doing for this issue.
Did anybody ask them who they donate to politically? Did anybody ask them.
What party they all belong to?
I just hadn't heard anything, so I don't know, I'm just asking the question.
Um…
What was the second one? It got me so… got me so interested.
I'll
remember it and come back. You have a…
Good morning, my name is Bobby Zurich, and I'm.
a resident owner in East Bradford
Township. That's where I vote.
And I have, every year since I've been able to.
Um… I'll be
brief.
Am
I aware of, I'd like to keep things simple.
This fiasco should not have happened in Chester County.
But my concern is that we're gonna go long.
As we've done before, over…
things that should have had accountability.
Um, like the millions of dollars that were spent on some fraudulent COVID test.
It happened a few short years ago.
And, um, I don't think we should forget.
We all make mistakes, just doesn't pacify any of us.
There
are systems in place to prevent.
Things such as this, I would assume.
This gross error was either.
incompetence or
intentional?
There's no other explanation.
And in any other world would call for dismissal.
Just like in other businesses out there.
That's what happens in the real world.
Let's
get back to what makes sense.
Let's have voting on 1 day.
in person.
And let's add voter ID.
We already…
Absentee
ballots
already exist.
This other nonsense, provisional, mail-in, all that stuff.
It's irrelevant.
Uh, it's been made to be important and relevant.
But… in the common sense world, it isn't. Thank you.
Uh, hi. Uh, my name's Jim Horgan. I'm a resident
of the United States.
and a citizen of the United States as well.
Uh, I just want to say, I was at the polling location all day.
From 6 o'clock or 6.30 to 10 o'clock at night. I'm a Republican committee person in East Marlboro Township.
And people in the polling place couldn't believe this mistake.
They said, it's incredible. It's unbelievable.
My point is, let's say it more directly, it's not believable.
So, I just want to say, this vote should not be certified. The same people who oversaw the debacle, or the same people who are overseeing the counting of the votes.
Right, right. That's not appropriate. This cannot be certified.
And I have one other comment. I want to know what legal preservation notices were delivered to the officials of voter services.
As well as officials of the Chester County.
This is a legal matter, and there should have been preservation notices delivered immediately.
on that date of that debacle.
Thank you.
Stephanie O'Brien, Westtown Township.
I've been up here since 2021, 5 years.
And
I'm listening, and here we are again.
2020…
2020… 2020…
They certified the election with 4,000 more votes.
than voters.
Some more data today. 34 precincts have been reconciled after.
Out of 194.
75,000 voters were left off the poll box.
Five
years.
There's people in here…
We will not go away.
We are going to fight.
We have warriors in here, and it's not an R, it's not a D.
It's for America.
Ms. Moser, you should have when you got hired. I don't know what story they told you. Brian, I'm sorry, and… No, let
me talk. Yeah, please direct your comments not to… I'm looking at her.
I'm just, I'm just… What would've… what would have been really good?
is you would have met both sides, people had a town hall.
So we could educate, so you would know what's going on. This is a show.
This is our right.
And I tell this to Josh, I've been on the phone.
I've been… I'm an auditor by trait, an IT auditor.
I knew what happened in 2020.
Let me tell you, they know, you can, you can put they.
They know. So go ahead, certify it. We know you're going to certify it. It's a digger hole you are digging. This is criminal.
It's criminal.
And
we will be lining up.
When
it's time.
The federal government and the people that know, know.
We have been telling you this is neglect, it's criminal, what you are doing, and it's amazing how God works and Chester County is on the map.
for 75,000 people that were left off.
it
just is presenting itself.
It's… the spotlight is being shined on.
this county.
It's coming. This isn't going away.
Look
at the people that have been.
Coming to these meetings.
figuring out what's going on, get involved, and there's many millions of people across this country working that can't do this, and I am so happy to be a warrior in this fight for my child and my grandchildren.
And I will continue to fight.
And let me tell you another thing. I offered to do the audit for free. For free!
processes, training, systems. I sent an email to them to say, okay, what's the timeline?
What's the scope?
The law firm is doing… Their time has expired,
please conclude your remarks. The law firm.
I asked for their certification.
No certification, they have no expertise.
This is a dog and pony show, and it should not be.
certified today, even though you will, without an investigation that is complete to figure out what went wrong.
Have a town hall.
And present it!
I'll end on this.
Josh hates this, but I'm saying it.
Because that could be really nasty. I'm Delco.
You're either a puppet.
Or you're dumb!
That's
it!
It's one or the other.
And I don't think you're dumb, Josh, I don't.
I do not.
Somebody, there's pictures.
There's
pictures!
is pulling your strings so you can go places and they're telling you what to do. It's just evident, it's evident 5 years.
That's it.
Just
remember what I forgot.
75,000 voters disenfranchised.
Independent voters, 12,000 and some odd cents.
voted. Republican and
Democrat voters.
50.1%.
Where's… I don't get this. Why do independents not want to vote?
Right? I mean, you didn't disenfranchise anybody, because 12,000.
ballots were counted. I don't know, answer me. Give me a reason to believe you.
Josh, I don't think you're dumb.
I think you're smart. Sorry, could
you state your name and your…
District, please? Sure.
Darren Tucker Wallace.
I think… to show you're not dumb, you're going to
resign after this.
Because someone needs to resign.
That'll
show you have some integrity as a man.
You know, just standing up for this, even though it wasn't your problem and you may not have.
caused it. Sometimes as a man,
that's what you have to do.
Yeah, to take the brunt of it.
And absorb. And then move
on from there.
So, what a huge debacle this election was.
talk
about disenfranchising voters.
Wow. Unbelievable.
The
amount of people…
that were unable to do what they went there to do.
It's unfathomable.
What a huge debacle, what a huge mess. I'm not sure who's in charge of it, but someone needs to resign.
It
doesn't matter who it is, Josh, could be you.
Could be Karen? Someone needs to resign.
represent America here and take responsibility.
It's not hard. It's not hard to do.
You just do it.
Sorry, Josh, but you just do it.
So, there needs to be a federal election.
an audit of this. This is a huge deposit.
I mean, who will forget all those books?
We won't forget all those books.
hypothetical.
Who would forget all those books?
We need to simplify the elections, get rid of all this stuff.
The government here is getting bigger.
And it's getting less efficient, obviously.
It doesn't take a break, you know, a brain surgeon to see this.
There's a lot of rot, apparently, and it needs to be basically, you know.
refurbished with new people.
Because
this isn't working.
In 2020, there was a huge mess, and then there was a huge mess at the prison.
The same day your friend was hired over there.
Now, you know, look, that's problem after problem right there, Josh, so…
I mean, if I were you, that's what I would do.
So
there needs to be a federal investigation.
Okay, but there's no two ways about it.
Has to happen and you can't certify the election, obviously, that makes.
That doesn't make sense to certify, obviously.
Um…
So it needs to be in day, you know, to simplify all this, let's make it.
One-day voting, in person.
Voter ID, no electronics.
Smaller precincts.
Towned same day.
Don't forget voter ID.
And
then, to simplify.
You know, the, um…
The in-group, basically counting the problem that they may have made. Your time has
expired. Please conclude your remarks.
independent group, nonpartisan group.
not affiliated with Chester County to.
certify the elections. That's the only way to do it.
the efficiency has gone down the tubes, and something needs to happen about it.
A
big change is to happen, Josh. Big one.
Thank you very much, have a great day.
Thank you.
Carol Campani, Westchester Borough. We are a nation under God.
And
we have a problem.
And it's a lot bigger than this fiasco election.
How do we know how to fix the problem if it hasn't been investigated yet?
It's like putting the cart before the horse.
And that's a problem.
I want to talk a little bit about Facebook, because I've seen some posts.
I've witnessed a lack of judgment in Commissioner Maxwell on his public Facebook post.
Asking for the safety of Representative Houlihan.
Regarding her lack of judgment, making a professional TikTok, telling military personnel not to follow the orders of our commander-in-chief.
It was professionally done, which means the money to make it was tracked.
Tesaurus-funded.
Dirty money.
The government has tracked this valid information.
Truly, a lack of judgment.
On your part for supporting her treasonous words.
The lack of judgment makes me wonder what.
other lack of judgment you have made!
Did anyone in county leadership have to answer for that mistake?
No! Not that we're aware of.
No consequence for this grievous error.
In this election, yourself.
and Marion Moskowitz decided to count illegal ballots.
Because you didn't want to hurt the feelings of your constituents.
We are not all of your constituents. At least that's not the way you behave.
Your lack of judgment is being examined.
nationwide.
It is called election integrity.
But you don't seem to understand.
My friend warned me not to say this. Don't lower yourself, Carol. Keep it professional. But this.
is a show.
It's poop!
It's like a large pile of elevated dung in the room.
But you won't vote to certify this election.
Because,
in the end.
When you did not remove the man who called fascist at an innocent woman during public comment, you clearly lacked judgment.
You do not represent all of your constituents.
You both, you and Marion, lack the leadership skills to be our Chester County Commissioners.
We know Shapiro, Houlihan… Your time has expired. …are being influenced by dark.
forces! It is not a.
I walk, and we will not forget.
competence or intentional?
We will not forget.
Hi, my name is Kathy Ingham. I'm in East Spikeland Township, uh.
precinct, uh,
East Pikelan 2, Republican Committee.
I was a poll watcher that day, I did witness what all went on.
But I… and I don't really need to reiterate everything that was said. I do want to bring up one thing for your consideration.
I was very troubled when our governor.
changed the law to allow automatic voter registration with our every time you file to get your driver's license. We have a lot of non-citizens in our community, in our county, and in our state.
And I think that's something you should be considering when you're looking at this investigation. And I understand today.
Pennsylvania officials reportedly admitted that for decades the Department of Motor Vehicles has allowed non-U.S. citizens to register to vote through the state's motor vehicle system.
And judicial Watch announced today that it filed an amica brief.
to have this looked at by the Supreme Court. We really… that's a right to U.S. citizens. That's totally degrading our election and diminishing our vote for citizens. So, um, I'm asking you, I mean, the only…
kind of saving grace is, I don't think too many were showing up at the polls because they're afraid of ice right now, but…
Um, so I'm just… I'm just going to ask you to consider that, and how do you rectify that in our community? And the only way to do that is.
turn over the verda rolls so that we know who's actually a U.S. citizen.
My, uh, second time, I introduced myself before Jim Horgan. I just want to say, I just want to reiterate.
This mistake, for anyone who works in the private business world, does anything… I'm
sorry, you've already commented, you can comment again during the general comment period.
Okay. Thank you. Okay.
Thank you.
Unbelievable. Not believable at all. In competency? No. Not believable.
There will be another public comment period
in person at the end of the meeting.
Is there anyone else in person, uh, who has not given public comment today that would like to?
I think you… Well, there are public comment be
allowed to
be made after the vote, or before the vote? This is
the public comment before the vote, then there'll be a public comment after the vote.
Uh,
and he wants it in person?
Ms. Moser, can you check online for us?
We
currently have
one hand raised on the line, um…
from… let me see, John McGeorge, I will…
Allow you to speak now?
Okay, you can unmute yourself.
Right, um… So, as you said, my name's John McGeorge, Chester County.
I helped with a poll at Hershey's Mill. And I say help because I wasn't paid, which has never happened to me on an election day.
At any rate, I witness people get turned away for being independents, also.
I learned from a friend in Phoenixville. that Republicans were being turned away.
So, basically, they're… disenfranchisement.
And… manipulation of the books for whatever's necessary for the powers of the.
B, get the results they wanted. So, for those and other reasons stated, I hope that this election will not be certified. Thank you.
We have Kent King, you can unmute yourself and share.
You can unmute yourself.
Yes, we can hear you.
I'm sorry, can you hear me now? Okay, sorry. Hi, I'm, uh, Kent Kenyan, I'm from East Whiteland.
And I think we can all agree that this poll book printing issue created a real problem for this election.
And I hope that everybody wishes that it didn't happen.
Unfortunately, it did happen. And once the problem was identified, it seems like voter services did everything possible to allow voters to vote.
And let their voices be heard. voters and votes were checked to make sure that they were eligible.
While voters were inconvenienced, they were still allowed to vote.
Well, this election was unique and problematic, I don't see.
hugely material issues that would cause the election to not be certified.
In the overall scheme of things, the issues were still relatively immaterial.
This seems to be a case of the tail wagging the dog.
And let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. Sorry to use some analogies there.
But I think not certifying this election would disenfranchise over 100,000 voters.
And that, I think, would be a real shame to democracy.
Thank you, Voter Services, and thank you, County Commissioners.
I see no other hands raised online.
Thank you,
Ms. Moser. Uh, that concludes public comment on today's agenda. Can I have a motion to adopt today's agenda?
Why
don't we… sir, why don't we… yeah.
Sure, sure. We can't answer questions, but you…
Oh, this is a rhetorical, it's going to be rhetorical.
No, not at all. Uh, it's not a problem.
Rich Cordes. Sir, do
you mind one second while
we mute the, uh… Sure.
That's fine.
Go ahead, sir. My one rhetorical question would be, if you had disenfranchised, um.
the people, the Democratics and Democratics are in the audience. Would the Democrats and would be upset, and would the commissioners certify the election?
If you knocked off and disenfranchised all the Democratics in the county.
That's my own rhetorical question, thank you.
Speed your name.
Oh, uh, excuse me, sir, thank you
for your public comment, but we missed your name. Do you mind just saying your name for the record?
Thank you, Mr. Cordes. Uh, that concludes public comment. On today's agenda, can I have a motion to adopt today's agenda? So moved.
Sir, second? Thank you, Commissioner Moskowitz. Uh, any discussion?
All in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Okay, none motion passes. No old business, new business. We have one thing on the agenda, BOE0925, and that's certification, the number.
November 4, 2025 municipal general election.
Um, is someone going to speak to this?
Yeah, why don't you… you want Karen to do it, or do you want to do it?
I would like you to.
I think this deserves some extra…
consideration.
Good morning, Commissioners. I don't have the resolution in front of me, but before you is a resolution asking you to certify the.
results of the
2025 municipal general election.
Okay.
Uh, any…
Uh,
the, um, can you just give some background on the legal.
What the state requires of us as a Board of Elections, and where we are in the process.
Sure, Commissioner. Colleen, could you
please introduce yourself for the record?
Sure,
Colleen Friends, Council Solicitor. Um…
West
Ocean? I…
Um, so, uh, the Board of Elections has a mandatory duty to certify the election results, um, under Pennsylvania law. This is not a discretionary duty.
And there are two defined circumstances in the election code under.
Which, uh, a Board of Elections may not certify. One of them is if there is a lawful recount or re-canvas petition filed in accordance.
with the election code, um, and this board has, um.
proceeded conservatively. I think in the past, when there have been recount petitions, for example, in the.
2025 general election, there was a recount petition filed, and although, um, the board argued that it was not filed in accordance with the act, nevertheless, the board decided to certify everything else but.
Um, that election, neither of you were on the Board of Elections at the time you were all running for election, but the board that was present did that. Um, the board has done that in the past, uh, when there have been, uh, recount petitions filed. Uh, the other narrow circumstance is.
Um, because we all know, the election code is.
was written in 1937, so it's a… it's very wordy, but generally.
Uh, to paraphrase it, it's when there are more votes than voters in any precinct or in the county, and we don't have that here.
Um, and although this election was unusual, it was extraordinary, which is a word we use a lot.
two weeks ago, um, they don't supply a lawful basis to not certify the election. While the poll book omission was unprecedented and required extensive research.
by voter services staff, and we had a hearing on, um, about 1,100, 1,200 ballots.
Um, the provisional ballot process functioned as a fail-safe that's built into the law to ensure that every eligible voter.
who cast a ballot could vote. Um, and the statutory certification analysis remains unchanged. Pennsylvania law requires the board.
to vote to certify this election because the circumstances that are in the election code for not certifying are not present, despite what happened on election day.
Thank you, Solicitor. Um…
Any, um…
We'd like to… Hey,
friends!
Friends.
friends, let's have a healthy discussion.
Um… and I would appreciate, um, if we can just keep track of our language, if… and that's a request, not a…
I'd just be appreciative.
Um, Commissioner Rowe, do you have something you'd like to add?
I
have no questions for the sister.
Thank you, sir.
Kind of a motion to certify the municipal.
20… November 4, 2025 election.
I second any discussion? Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My
fellow Chester County residents.
My confidence in the administration of the elections in Chester County is shaken.
I'm
not alone in that.
Three weeks ago, we held hearings.
For hours, it was one of the longest days we've had.
since I got elected. And I listened intently.
to the dozens and dozens of stories that voters presented.
Voters, judges of elections, and other people who share their experiences from Tuesday, November 4th.
And because you pay my salary, I have a duty to listen to the words that you say, and take those stories to heart.
I'm not disputing that the winners from this election won.
I'm not sure. I'm gonna presume that, in fact, they did.
But what I'm certifying here today is that the results are accurate.
And I can't say for sure.
I'm not implying that anything nefarious happened.
I'm not implying that there was intentional malfeasance. There's an investigation that we'll look into that, and I've been promised.
that that will be looked into.
I'm simply saying that in chaos and in disorder, with rapidly changing rules and directives, it's too difficult for me, Eric Rowe.
to be confident in the accuracy of our tabulations.
Voter services and the election workers, I think, did their best in a tough situation when it was revealed.
that we had a huge mistake on our hands. I think they acted in good faith.
Once they learned of the situation, they did their very best to mitigate it. I'm not questioning any of that.
But I've heard so many stories that I can't overlook, I just can't.
examples of people not having enough provisional ballots to vote with at their precincts.
Some people being mistakenly told that they didn't need a secrecy envelope.
Many voters not being told that if they vote provisional, it'll still count.
Voters who got conflicting information from various places, not necessarily from county government, and then they gave up.
Voters who refused to feel like second-class citizens and would not vote with a provisional ballot, and so they walked away instead. I had a lady in West Bradford Township.
who called me up, and she said, Eric, I am not a second-class citizen. I should not have to vote.
with a provisional ballot. I am not voting until those supplemental poll books show up at the precinct.
You better personally phone me up and tell me when that supplemental poll book arrives.
And so I did. I've heard stories of places in New Garden Township and Coatesville.
Where scores of voters were disenfranchised because in those precincts, the rules were not followed, and therefore.
Those voters' votes will not count at all.
If a voter wanted to vote, but didn't.
Can we truly call this an accurate.
measure of the votes from November 4th. I don't think we can.
It has been argued that a lack of confidence in the process is not enough to vote against the certification of the issue… of the votes as they were tabulated, but I beg to differ.
This
certification.
is coming before elected officials, and it's for a reason, because that's because a certain level of discretion is, in fact, needed here.
If it didn't require discretion, it wouldn't come before elected officials. This certification could just be done by the Voter Services Department and handed directly to Harrisburg.
There is a reason that this stuff comes before the Board of Elections, and it's because there is certain discretion that needs to be used.
And that discretion, in my opinion, must involve a confidence.
in the results as they're presented on this sheet of paper.
Best
practices were not always followed on election day, nor were they followed uniformly. It depended on which precinct you were voting at to determine which rules you had to follow, or which way you were going to vote that day.
And you heard the Voter Services Director herself tell you that in almost 50 contests.
There were decided by just one vote.
How can I sit here and tell you that I'm confident in the accuracy of the winners of these elections.
If some of them were decided by so few votes.
I've got this resolution in front of me. Part of it, I'll read, it says, Whereas, in accordance with the requirements of 20 PS section.
2642K, the Pennsylvania Election Code, the Chester County Board of Elections has determined that it's now appropriate.
to certify the official results of the computation of the November 4, 2025 municipal general election.
appropriate.
Is it truly appropriate for us to certify.
these election… this municipal election without the results, the thorough results of the investigation that we were trying to complete, we don't have those results yet.
I
love that. The people of Chester County, hear me and hear me now.
I have to put my head on the pillow tonight when I lay down to sleep.
And when I do, I must have a clean conscience.
And if I vote today to certify with my own signature that the election results on this sheet of paper are an accurate reflection of the votes of valid votes cast on Tuesday, November 4th, I will not be able to keep that clean conscience.
Because I lack the confidence I need to cast an affirmative vote.
A wise man once said that injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
And he was right. So I'm here to tell you this.
Inaccurate election results that disenfranchise thousands of voters.
anywhere is a threat to democracy everywhere.
Graphics.
And I will be voting accordingly. Thank you.
Okay.
I want to just start by saying thank you to everyone who came to this meeting today.
Uh, some of you, I'm not going to call out names because I don't think it's appropriate, have been spending a lot of time with us over the last few years, and.
watching the elections, watching this government, uh, getting to know the staff.
Um, and I don't think we appreciate or show appreciation enough for the people that come and pay attention to municipal government.
as much. We hear a lot of discussion news about the federal and state government, but we think here in the county, we do a lot of things.
To the degree you're willing to take time out of your day to share how you feel with us.
Share your disagreements or agreements with us.
I think is, uh, worthy of, um…
worthy of appreciation.
And it shows something about everyone's character in this room that you're willing to.
dedicate something precious like your time to.
participate in local governments.
I want to share, you know, these things are generally very formal, and my job is to try and keep decorum, I think.
To the best I can, and try to be friendly and encourage.
The healthy communication.
Um, and that's important to me. Um…
I think it's also important, um, as Usman mentioned, the buck should stop at the chair of the board, although I don't have.
It's a three-member board, three votes, um, all the power in the world. It's not like being governor or a mayor or a president. Uh, certainly not like that at all. We all have access to everything this government does.
The buck does stop, needs to stop somewhere, and I remember you mentioned Warden Holland, former police chief Holland, someone I hold in great dear respect, who's helped turning around that prison, and some of you have spent time with our prison.
Standing in front of people who had a legitimate reason to be extraordinarily angry at this county government when someone escaped from that prison and having to apologize in front of people and let them know that.
a mistake had happened, and the bug stops with me. That is true here, too.
I am sad.
I am disappointed. I am, uh, at times on election day, I'm embarrassed to say I was angry.
Um, I shared… I showed my frustration on my face and in my words in front of staff, and I shouldn't.
I was disappointed in the way this had happened, and I'm embarrassed to say that I was even worried on how it might reflect on me.
And
so…
Please let me finish. We allow…
Excuse me, ma'am, without Commissioner Rowe, uh, his time… Let's let him finish.
The buck stops with me? Can I please, ma'am, can I finish my comments?
Can I finish my comments?
Thank
you very much, ma'am.
Uh,
Dolores and Rafi.
Um, you know, I posted something on Facebook about asking you guys to stop the petition.
uh, challenging the balance.
Um, I was angry when I did that.
I was angry because, Mr. Chairman, when we had breakfast about a year ago, a year and a half ago, I reached out to you, I said, hey, if you have something, you can reach out to me directly.
We met at Nunes, we had a great conversation about music, your kids' excellent guitar playing, and we talked about Mt. Joy and shared music.
And I said, if you have something, you can reach out to me. I'll meet with the Republican committee. I'd meet with the Democratic committee, they don't invite me, but I'd come.
I also said that what's really important to me is that you direct your attention at me. I happen to be a Democrat. I was independent before.
I registered as a Democrat because the town council in downtown Borough is Republican, and they said they were all full on seats. You'd have to pick a different party, and that's why I ended up a Democrat, not political family at all.
And I said, just please keep your attention on me and not on the staff. These are bureaucrats who are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. It doesn't really matter, they just work here and then they go home to their kids. And the letter you guys sent included names of some of the staff.
And I was so angry that you didn't just point your attention at me, you pointed the attention to the people who work here who rely on their paychecks.
And I reacted by saying… I saw the memes about me and all the things on the social media part, and I said, you know what?
I don't like this anymore, and I had breakfast with the chairman, and I said, please don't do that.
up all your side, so please don't do that.
So I did ask for people to email you to get to withdraw your positions. I'm sorry that I reacted on Facebook in anger to that. I don't think it was above and beyond the treatment that I've gotten, and the staff here has gotten.
Uh, for folks in this room. There isn't… anybody in this room that I haven't gone out of my way to show respect for.
And be kind to. And that's a very, very important to me as a man of faith.
And as a man who.
uh, really is interested in getting feedback from all members of the community.
Ms. O'Brien, we sat on the phone for 45 minutes, I think, maybe less than 45 minutes, maybe close to a half hour, and I heard everything you said to me.
There she is in the back. You gave me a little thing of Jesus.
that's in my kids, uh, my 2-year-old's nursery right now.
I think it's important right now.
That
we hear each other and respect each other.
And I'm sorry I'm gonna, uh, disappoint a lot of people by voting certify the election, but I don't want you to hear that I don't respect or don't consider what you think.
And…
And I want to… in addition to extending my apologies to Dolores and the Chairman, and explaining publicly why.
I was angry. I would like to reiterate, in your communications, please keep the focus on me and not on staff. It's a request. Obviously, you can do whatever you want.
I also apologize to the independent voters here in Chesa County, and the Republicans and Democrats who had vote provisionally.
You were disenfranchised in a way that you should not have been.
And it's up to me to apologize to all of you. And the same way I did.
Uh, in Picopson Township.
We're going to invest and do everything we possibly can to make the changes that we need to turn this around.
And if you want to participate or be part of that conversation, I welcome it.
I welcome it, right? I come from a town that.
It
is as purple as it gets.
It just is… I just never consider politics.
At all, ever.
Uh, my best friend probably will never vote for me.
has a… make America great. Again, Hatties, so please use the best man at my wedding.
It does… let's just focus on what we can do here in Chester County to make our government and our community safer and better.
And you'll never hear from me.
Any anger about any Republican.
or any person here in this government. I think it's important that we protect these folks and we empower them to make the best decisions possible. So, Dolores, Raffi, Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry.
And she got all the independents in this county, the people with disenfranchised. I am extraordinarily sorry. No, that is my commitment and this government's commitment to earn your trust and to make it up to you.
Can I have a motion to certify the election?
We got what? Oh, there is a motion and a second, Commissioner Rowe. Thank you so much.
All in favor, please say aye. Aye.
I was opposed? No. Thank you so very much.
that Resolution BOE0925, uh, has passed. Up next, we have public comment. This is open public comment on, uh, not just agenda items.
Uh,
sir, you're up. New London Township.
I just want to say, with 50 races decided I want to vote.
Having one voter disenfranchised nullifies an election.
And
you just certified.
You're sort of like an election! That wasn't create a hair!
That did not include everybody who wanted to vote! And 50 other children of the races!
We're settled! I won! Whoa!
Have you seen every piece of documentation that you all have in looter services.
and ignorant, because I demand that the hurdle current goes in and looks at what you did. There's no such thing as an independent investigation coming out of Westchester, three doors.
This is ridiculous! The fact that the solicitor said you got to certify!
to go out on a win and say, I'm not gonna do what I know who is right! You know as well as I know, and.
You have to go like that!
Just
a call!
It's ridiculous! And I'll be honest with you! And you should resign! That kid should resign! That kid should resign!
He's the only one that called me back! And let me know what I thought! And I told him! And he already said to him!
And I'll say that a lot of you are honking! I don't want to get Democrat!
2003, my sacred light!
And you're not gonna kill yourself!
Sandy Berman, Chester County.
Sandy,
we lost the, uh, lights there, so she's just gonna put them back up, and then make sure that we, uh…
Okay, thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bowman. Sandy Bowman, Chester County. And
I would just like to say the gentleman that spoke before me reminds me of the television show, or movie, whatever it was, where the man was screaming.
I'm mad as and I'm not gonna take it anymore.
So, with that in mind.
Every single person who feels that their civil rights.
have been violated by this election can file a complaint.
With the Department of Justice Civil Rights Division.
I
did that. Um, in 2022.
Our Board of Elections certified an election with outstanding petitions for recount.
There was no human error in that election, so they can't use that as a reason for breaking the law. And Commissioner Roe, if you would do me a favor and read, not right now, but read to everybody what that certification says, because I believe it says you can't certify when there are outstanding petitions.
Commissioner Maxwell, unfortunately, your bias shows all the time. When people come up here and make comments.
And there are comments coming back from the people sitting in these chairs.
It depends on who's standing at this podium, whether or not you will shut it down.
So we had someone here at a commissioner meeting earlier this year who was called a fascist, not once.
But twice. You did not intervene until the RCCC solicitor said something.
That's disturbing.
You showed your bias when you predetermined.
how you were going to vote before the hearing was held.
You took responsibility for the protonatory being left off the ballot in the primary.
You took responsibility for the poll worker error.
I can't remember. Did you take responsibility for the prison outbreaks?
Sincere responsibility.
could be followed up.
With your resignation.
And once again, if you think Chester County.
is not on the radar of the Department of Justice.
Think again.
Again,
my name is Deanna Wang.
I wanted to, uh, speak to, uh.
Uh, kudos to, uh, Mr. Eric Rowe for your courage to stand up.
to the truth. And if, uh, Mr. Maxwell claimed to be, uh, man of face, and I believe your justice day will come.
Because you know that this election, with so many irregularities, should not be certified, is illegal to certify it, and you do it anyway.
So my following comments is I wanted to be clear, my comments is not directly to the lady there as our Chief Experience Officer. My comments will go directly to the leadership, the commissioners, as you requested, when you decided to create such position.
was our taxpayers' dollars, with intention to improve our experience with Chester County government. Do you mind wanted to ask everybody here, what is our experience now.
With your leadership, with the government, is that experience improved or worsened?
I feel that I'd be cheated by that money spent.
for that position, for that role, and I demand on reimbursement of my money.
Uh, Jim Horton here again. Didn't get to speak a second time before, but I just want to say, you know, anyone who has worked in private industry, private business.
And within systems.
We'll tell you, this is just not a believable mistake. It's just not believable that books could be printed, information could be sent to printers.
Lacking so many voters for Election Day. And not only that, but have the books.
Return back to voter services, and no one checks and finds that voters are missing from the books.
It's just not believable. So, I have a request for the investigation that's.
to go on, or is going on.
Would you please add some.
private citizens to the investigative process. We have a young lady here who seems to suggest that she's very much.
knowledgeable on systematic systems.
Okay, but would you please add some independent.
voters to the investigative process of this debacle.
And I just want to make one other comment. We have.
The most highly visible elected official of Chester County.
who serves in our U.S. Congress, Miss…
Chrissy Houlihan has the time to go out and make silly videos suggesting or.
implying that our military should.
act mutinous, or whatever, and disregard orders from the commander-in-chief of our country, our president, President Trump.
She has time to do that, but as far as I know, she has not made one public comment about this debacle of the Chester County voting system. I know that she also includes the part, a small part of Berks County in her district.
But Chester County is included totally within her district, and as far as I know, she has not made one public comment on this issue.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm Paul G. Salentano of Phoenixville, and regarding the formal demand for the.
Retraction and apology by Chester County Commissioner Josh Maxwell, and the censure of Chester County.
Commissioner Josh Maxwell. I have the following to say.
My symptoms.
Yes.
In the interest of time, I will yield the remainder of my time.
But not without mentioning, in the immortal words of Gomer Piles, Sergeant Carter.
I can't hear you.
Hello, Michael Taylor, Euclin Township.
I used to come down here and talk quite often, but it's been a
few years, and uh… but with this past election, I felt like I had to come down here and address two.
main issues now that the election has been certified.
One, I'm Polar, I'm a committee person, and I was… I work very well with my Joe.
And I was flabbergasted to find out that people were being asked to sign a poll book without having any signature verification.
Or any sort of confirmation with the mail-in ballot and things of that nature. We all know.
We are, I should say, we should all know that if there's any question on.
a ballot, or a person's right to vote, it is a provisional ballot.
I think we all know that now. Let's never do that again.
The
second issue to Mr. Maxwell.
I just wanted to say, I was most upset by the post you put out on Friday before.
the hearing. You took an oath to be impartial. You're the Board of Elections, you have a judicial function.
But you made quite clear what your opinions were.
Prior to hearing any evidence.
That cannot happen. You have to be impartial. I'm assuming you signed your oath and it's filed in the county.
Um,
Worcester County.
We can do much, much better than this.
We
know what we're doing.
And I just want to read a quote here, and Ms. Friends, I think you'll know exactly where I'm going with this.
I read this quite often, and it's from.
Book 6 of the Iliad.
Where Diomedes comes down before the gates of Troy and comes across Glaucus.
And Diomedes asks, who is this guy? And he.
Glock his response.
Hippocalis begat me.
I claim to be his son.
And he sent me to Troy with strict instructions.
ever
to excel.
to do better than others, and to bring glory to your forebears, who indeed were very great.
This is my ancestry, this is the blood I am proud to inherit.
The same should be said for Chester County. We stand on the shoulders of all those who came before us.
We
should always excel to do better.
We should do better, we can do better, and I'm sure we will do better.
Thank you.
Hi, I'm
Kathy Dobson from Birmingham 2.
I just want to know, and I know you can't answer, but after the investigation.
If it shows that there have been many people that were disenfranchised and.
Um, can you
change?
The result, um, the certification.
That's why it… yeah, that's why it doesn't make sense that you certified this before the investigation.
It's… it's… it's irrational.
Dolores Triani, solicitor for the Republican Party.
Commissioner Maxwell, um…
I
find your words hallow.
You know, I was in this room a couple weeks ago when Stephanie O'Brien was talking.
And I was in the back of the room with my colleague, my brave colleague.
Robin Coroniti, and a man near us yelled, fascist at her. And Robin went up to him and said, you will be respectful.
And he yelled fascist again. And then I turn to you and said, remove him.
And you said no. So, your newfound interest in decorum.
rings hallow with me.
I would like this report in advance, so I can look at it. Will you agree to do that?
I don't think you will. We agree to put a Republican.
on that committee, I don't think you will. Would you agree to put me on the committee? I know you won't.
But I have one more thing to say.
When I first started as a Republican committee person.
I was on the ballot, and I got to be a poll watcher.
in my precinct, because I know those people.
I know my Joe, I'm familiar with that area. And suddenly, after being a thorn in the side of this committee.
of this commission, whatever, the Board of Elections.
Suddenly, Republicans running for election.
who are running for a party office were not permitted to be poll watchers in their own precincts. Well, that's coming up again. That was a head-scratcher to me. I couldn't understand why you would change the rules. But now I do.
Because on election day.
Our committee people were our eyes and ears. That's why I have so much knowledge of what was going on.
And that's why I could communicate that knowledge to the people who needed to know, because you couldn't.
You hired a law… we filed a suit, and you've hired a law firm, and I'll bet they've spent $100,000 billing this county over something so simple.
I'd ask you to reconsider, and I'd ask.
Commissioner Roe to advocate for us. We need our committee people, as poll watchers, in their districts, in their precincts.
So that this sort of stuff.
at least gets reported accurately. Thank you.
Sally Menninger of Chester County. Uh, I just would like to say two things.
The first is that I was one of the filers of the petitions in 2022.
That it wasn't even the date for my petition to be.
Reviewed, and the election was certified. So what, uh, Solicitor Friends had to say.
About, um, one of those exceptions, I know for a fact.
because of direct involvement to not be true.
But the main reason I came up here a second time is because.
I wanted it to publicly go on the record.
to, um…
put out my thanks to Commissioner Rowe.
for actually reviewing everything thoughtfully, listening to what we had to say, and voting not to certify this election. And I'm up here because instead of.
Um, thanking him after the meeting, I wanted on the public record so that everyone knows.
how he represented the people in the room today and all of the voters.
So, thank you so much.
Linda Moore,
perhaps in Township?
Um, I wanted to come back up here and share a couple of steps that we went through in our precinct.
that I haven't heard here that give me pause about instructing.
the poll books to sign the poll books.
Are you aware that the inspectors and the judge of elections have to sign a document and take an oath.
In front of the three of us, that we will not allow someone whose name does not appear in the poll book to cast an in-person.
ballot. I don't know where this instruction came from that the person should sign the back of the poll book if they appear in that master list, but the three of us looked at each other and said, where are we getting this instruction? We all just took an oath to each other and signed a document that is part of the opening of the polls.
That we would not allow this to happen.
So this needs to be looked at. That document is part of our package.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that some of these precincts are just gigantic.
There were precincts that had 214 provisional ballots. Can you imagine the size of the precinct down to ones that had nothing.
There needs to be a look at why do we have such disproportionately sized precincts.
No wonder these Joes were under stress in some of these precincts. They had so many people coming in.
You say, okay, each precinct has one Joe and two inspectors.
Regardless of the size, we have… our precinct has 2,000.
914 voters, and we have one judge and two inspectors, and then we have poll workers who come to work. There are some significantly less than ours. There are some that are larger than ours.
This is another area that could cause what happened this election to be magnified.
into a problem, because once you start down the wrong path of processing the provisional ballots.
It snowballs. It just snowballs. Now, not every… some precincts did.
much better job in processing than others, understandably.
But the communication did not get out early enough. It could have alerted.
The precincts to say, beyond, be prepared, get your books out, make sure you have the white envelope.
Get the signatures on it, make sure the voter puts their ballot in the green envelope.
seal it. Don't sign the envelope, and then seal it inside the white envelope, and make sure there's the 4 signatures on the outside.
When you have a lot of people standing in line, you want to help them get through the line and get out the door. They'd already stood in line once to be told that they're not in the poll book, so.
The size of these precincts needs to be reviewed. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Do we have anyone else in person but Ms. O'Brien?
Stephanie O'Brien, Westtown. Um…
Okay, so we knew you were going to certify.
Um, but we're here making a statement.
We're here making a statement.
But let me just say one thing. Watching this for 5 years.
Kudos to the voter services, I've been up there, what they do, Karen in the boxes, I mean, it's just this massive…
production system that's really, if you think about it, it's our voice.
It's our voice that this production area and everything's just all over the place.
But it's by design, right? So your team may not even know.
They're being told these are the procedures.
But it's a higher level. What's going on in this country is by design. So what the 75,000 was to cause chaos, confusion.
Eyes off the focus.
I've sent you videos.
Look at Lara Logan.
And the interview that she has with CIA.
And
Smartmatic, and Dominion.
And how they brought that of Venezuelans in the news, Venezuela.
coders,
developers.
companies to do a color revolution.
In other countries.
And they brought it here.
Okay? This is by design. Act 77.
was put in by Republican.
Congress people.
It's a uni party.
Okay? We are waking up. It's not going away. We're watching it, we're watching it.
It's a uniparty. They put Act 77 in, which is unconstitutional. It's not going away. Somebody in our Republican Party could be standing up fighting to redact it. We have.
I could name all, they're all, they're all rhinos.
So we still have Act 77, they put central scan in for a reason.
To centralize, it's an easy way to manipulate the vote.
over Wi-Fi.
access by people, I've asked the question, who has access to our system, who does this behind it?
And again, we've asked since 2020 for an audit. You guys are asking for an audit. They're not going to do an audit.
What I'm saying is, the people that were pounding on here, I don't know, you know.
We have excellence, we have a CEO, they're running this organization like a business.
And they're treating it like a business.
But it's, it's our American voice, and we're losing.
Our country. I don't think we're gonna lose our country because we're right at the precipice of lots of things, but…
It has all been by design, and we have woken up.
But it's bigger than Chester County, and.
Your time has
expired, too. Please conclude
your remarks. One or two people to put in the right places at the state level, with the systems, and cause confusion, and everybody run around, it's by design. And it hasn't gone away.
So, that's all I just wanted to educate. This is all by design, we're fighting provisional ballots, this, that. The voter books, the voter rolls, the people, the this, the…
It's insanity, because we care so much, and I always tell you, Josh, I am not…
I'm a registered Republican, that's questionable right now, because I had to pick a side.
I'm an American. I don't owe allegiance to the Republican Party.
Democrat Party, Independent, I just see what's going on, and I've researched, and I'm listening, and I'm watching, and probably with my IT audit background, I can see what's going on.
And then it's common sense. You just know, you just know.
common
sense.
Okay.
While the
investigation, please.
My name's Jerry LaMostra of Chester County.
And
what I heard initially from the folks.
Uh, from Chester County was that what was being investigated.
was.
in this debacle, whatever you want to call it, uh, individual error.
And systemic failure.
What wasn't mentioned is any criminality or criminal activities.
Uh, they should be investigated also.
Apparently that's not going to happen.
I've run organizations, I've run, you know.
I've been an analyst, a project manager. There's always a punch list.
a checklist.
Of any actions and tasks to be accomplished.
And what it does is it, uh…
It enables anybody who works in that environment to be able to go through.
Check off every action.
every task that needs to be accomplished.
to make sure that it.
It's not missed.
I don't know if voter Services has this. If they don't.
That's a travesty, but if it does exist.
either no one…
Checked off that box, or who I… the people in charge never.
certified that.
The other thing is, uh, what you also mentioned was that, uh, 50 contests were won by only one vote.
And…
That's incredible. Uh, it happens. I understand that.
Many voters were turned away.
Without being able to vote.
Which should have caused you not to certify.
But the two Democrat commissioners just certified.
This election.
To possibly.
Uh, was criminally.
administered. It was definitely improperly administered.
And it denied the right to vote.
To a lot of people.
Your actions and those of Chester County Voter Services need to be federally investigated.
and prosecute it. And I'll do everything in my power to make sure that happens. Thank you.
Do we have any more, uh, public comment in person?
All
right, Ms. Moser, why don't you take us online?
We
have one comment online from,
uh, Tracia. You can unmute yourself.
Yes, we can hear you.
Hello, can you hear me? Okay, I missed the, um, first portion of the online comment.
Sorry, could you please state your full name for us and your municipality?
Commenting.
Sure, uh, this is, uh, Chisha Chin, uh, from East Wiland. I am the Republican Committee Chair in the township.
I missed the initial portion of the commenting, so sorry for that.
Um, I want to, uh… I know that you guys already certified the election result.
I just want to tell you that, um. By making a mistake in the voting process, you did one thing wrong.
And by… certifying this election.
Was the many, many of the voters that you disenfranchised, you did another thing wrong.
2 rounds does not make you a right thing, that you can have the conclusion.
Okay, you need to have the conscious, and then you know, you know you didn't do it right.
You didn't do it right in your normal work.
In your election preparation work, you didn't have the proper processes, you didn't have the proper resources to do your work.
And then you did that wrong. And then you did another thing wrong by certifying this election. Two round does not make your right.
Okay? And then your voter service process. In the provisioning… provisioning ballot counting process.
You don't have the proper procedures to. Detect double counting.
I was there, and I pointed out that. to the staff and to your director of the voter Services, and they have to come up with the solution on the fly.
to say, oh, the shore system from the PA IT system will essentially dictate that problem.
This is you inventing process on the fly and then trying to.
Um, make your voters. considering what you do is reasonable. We are not being fooled.
Okay? Like many people who have professional background, who understand how normal.
Um, things needs to be done properly in the private sector.
you guys need to… the county election board, you really need to.
Look in yourself, and then look in the mirror, and then tell us.
You are doing your job, or you are. consciously not doing your job. We elect you, you are supposed to be working for us, you are not.
supposed to be working against. Your people, the voters, doesn't matter where Democrat or we are Republican.
Do you have 30 seconds remaining.
Okay? Yes, thank you. So, you guys need to have a conscience in your mind, really understand what you have been elected.
4. Yeah, I can call my, uh, comments. Thank you.
Next up, we have Chris Thompson. You can go ahead and unmute yourself.
Hey, thank you. Good afternoon. Uh, as you said, I'm Christopher Thompson, T-H-O-M-S-O-N.
I'm a lifelong resident of Chester County, 62 years in this community.
I currently serve as the, uh, Area Chair for West Hill and Thornbury.
And I'll say this plainly. The county leadership, including the executive committee and Voter Services.
has failed the people of Chester County. It's not a Republican issue, Democrat issue.
It's a citizen issue. You failed us. In this election, I ran alongside Joe LaRusso.
Deanna Wang, Alyssa McGrory. Tom Hatsudeus, I ran as the prophonetary candidate.
We had a clear and urgent message. It was called CHESCO Deserves Better.
Make no mistake, this is the moment right now.
This is exactly. why we said it.
Absolute failure of leadership at all levels in this county. It's pitiful.
And it's an embarrassment. This certification hearing is not a formality, it's a test of your integrity.
And it's failed. The problems, the mismanagement, the disregard for basic accountability.
You're sweeping it aside, and you're ignoring it. Chester County residents.
I don't care what your party affiliation is. I used to be a Democrat many years ago, switched to Republican.
Does it really matter. Chester County residents deserve better.
than what they received in this election. And they deserve much better going forward. You've established a precedent.
By certifying this election. Of certifying unlawful votes.
It's disgraceful. This is a time for county leadership.
to reflect… you won't do it. But I'm gonna say it anyway.
Reflect upon what you've done here. confront the failures, correct them.
restore some integrity in the process. Right now, no one trusts you.
I certainly don't. And there's many others out there that don't.
So, with that said, Chester County does deserve better. That's why we ran under that slogan.
Thank you.
I see no more hands online. Thank you,
Ms. Moser. Uh, can I have a motion to adjourn today's meeting? So moved.
Second, any discussion?
All
those in favor, please say aye. Aye.
Any opposed? Hearing none, motion passes. Thank you, everyone. Have a wonderful day.