1 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:16,599 Good evening everyone. We'll call this meeting to order at 4 p.m. 2 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:24,240 Adoption of the agenda. >> That West Elgen, Committee of the Hall, 3 00:00:22,240 --> 00:00:32,000 hereby adopts the agenda for January 8th, 2026 as presented. 4 00:00:27,599 --> 00:00:38,000 » Move, please. Councelor Denning seconded councelor Susa 5 00:00:34,079 --> 00:00:44,200 all in favor that's carried disclosure of any pecunary interest and 6 00:00:40,480 --> 00:00:44,200 general nature thereof. 7 00:00:44,559 --> 00:00:57,640 Seeing none, we move straight on to 4.1 infrastructure and development sidewalk 8 00:00:52,719 --> 00:00:57,640 and crossworks uh study. 9 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:07,840 » Good afternoon. Um I I brought the this uh report to the committee pole to 10 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:12,560 discuss the the need for a crosswalk study throughout the municipality of 11 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:17,439 West Elgen. Um it was brought to our attention that we uh have some safety 12 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:24,080 issues and to address these safety issues um we would need to bring in a 13 00:01:19,759 --> 00:01:29,759 consultant to look at at all the the two m the two towns and municipality of 14 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:35,759 Rodney and West Lauren to see what needs we have within the community. Um the two 15 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:42,240 areas that we look to get done in the the municipality is down Graham Street 16 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:48,640 and down M down Main Street in West Lauren and down Fernal Road in Rodney. 17 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:54,960 um in speaking with the consultants and reviewing the um their report that 18 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:59,200 they've put together for me. Um we would be doing traffic counts throughout the 19 00:01:56,799 --> 00:02:02,960 two corridors to or traffic and pedestrian counts throughout the two 20 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:06,320 corridors to determine how many um people we have crossing the street and 21 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:13,200 to see what kind of needs that are going to be driven out of this. Um this is to 22 00:02:10,319 --> 00:02:18,319 uh enhance pedestrian safety and determine how traffic operations will be 23 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:24,959 affected throughout these uh these areas. um to to do these studies, we 24 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:30,400 would be um looking at the infrastructure that um would be needed 25 00:02:27,599 --> 00:02:37,280 to be put in with through PR uh provincial standards and the Ontario 26 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:42,400 guidelines um warrantedness the that we will have to be able to follow when we 27 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:46,400 get the counts in. Um we are going to be and the 28 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:51,120 consultants would be reviewing the existing roadway conditions and posted 29 00:02:48,319 --> 00:02:57,920 speeds, collecting vehicle and data uh traffic counts and confirming pedestrian 30 00:02:53,519 --> 00:03:02,640 desire lines. Um so the desire lines are where people actually walk at and 31 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:08,480 compared to where we would be directing them to walk at. um these desire lines 32 00:03:05,599 --> 00:03:12,800 sometimes where kids naturally walk when they cross the street or where people 33 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:17,760 would cross the street um throughout our community and we can identify them 34 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:23,760 through uh uh cameras that we put up and do the counts through that way. So um 35 00:03:20,879 --> 00:03:28,720 the outcome of the study would determine if we need any uh pedestrian crosswalks, 36 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:32,879 any marked crosswalks or if anything's warranted at all at that at these 37 00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:38,159 intersections. Um we're looking for clear recommendations 38 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:44,080 um in this uh from the our consultants and to identify suitable cross types um 39 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:47,680 and we'll get uh concept level design ideas from the consultant as well in 40 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:52,720 this study. So if anybody has any questions 41 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:56,319 » yeah questions from council please stith. 42 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,319 » Thank you very much Mr. Mayor and through you. Um thank you Dave for 43 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:05,360 putting this together. Appreciate it a lot. I think $17,000 is a ridiculous 44 00:04:02,879 --> 00:04:11,439 amount of money to spend on um a study for crosswalks. That's well above what I 45 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:16,079 would be comfortable uh looking at. My question is this. So, we're looking at 46 00:04:13,439 --> 00:04:21,759 revitalizing the West Lauren uh sort of downtown as a result of the county um 47 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:25,440 replacing portions of Graham Graham Road and and 48 00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:31,199 Main Street. And that's coming up in the short term, I believe, in the 1 to 49 00:04:27,199 --> 00:04:37,280 twoyear cycle. Well, I I wonder what um how many of these studies would be 50 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:41,520 concurrent with the studies that they're going to be doing uh when they replace 51 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:45,919 those roadways. I [snorts] guess what I'm getting at is the pedestrian uh 52 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:50,960 studies, the traffic studies. I'm assuming that if we're if we're redoing 53 00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:54,800 the downtown based on, you know, what the county is 54 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:59,120 doing for the roadways, would that not be included in their studies as well? 55 00:04:56,479 --> 00:05:05,199 and and secondly, would we be able to sort of dovetail this into the work that 56 00:05:01,759 --> 00:05:08,560 is forthcoming in the next year or two uh on behalf of the county? And could we 57 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:13,280 maybe look at doing I I think the crosswalks are important. I think it's a 58 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:17,199 good thing. Um but 17,000 bucks is just it's astronomical and I that's just for 59 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:21,520 the study. So if it's something that we can dovetail into existing works that 60 00:05:19,759 --> 00:05:25,280 are forthcoming, is that is that something [clears throat] that's uh that 61 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:28,160 we can consider or or how would that fit in? Thank you. 62 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:32,639 » Well, I think when the county does do the 63 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:37,360 roads, when they're renewing all the services, sewages, and everything that's 64 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:41,759 underneath that road and refurbishing, taking all the curbs out and putting new 65 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:47,520 curbs and drop curbs wherever they need to be, I I'm sure if any crosswalk goes 66 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:49,919 in, it's going to be a lot cheaper. >> Common sense. 67 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:54,160 » That's my point, Mr. Mayor. I I agree with you 100%. And I mean, if we're 68 00:05:51,199 --> 00:06:00,560 already redoing the entire road, um, you know, Graham and sorry, Graham and 69 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:04,080 Maine, um, that would be the time that I would think would be most appropriate. 70 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:10,160 And also these studies that we're talking about with respect to pedestrian 71 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:13,520 traffic and and vehicular traffic, if if they're redoing the roadways, I would 72 00:06:11,840 --> 00:06:18,720 suspect that they're already doing those studies. And it's something that we can, 73 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:22,000 like I said, dovetail into that. And I'm I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I think 74 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:27,680 it's a great idea. I' I'd like to see this happen, but you know, for an 75 00:06:25,199 --> 00:06:31,600 engineering firm to come in and do all of this work, and if we ask them to do a 76 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:37,919 little bit of additional work to put in crosswalks, maybe the cost is going to 77 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:44,080 be 2,000 bucks or $3,000 instead of $17,000 to do it separately right before 78 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:48,560 we do a large uh you know, sort of revitalization of the downtown streets. 79 00:06:45,919 --> 00:06:52,000 So, that that's my question to you, Dave. Uh if you could comment on that, 80 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:56,000 I' I'd appreciate it. Thank you. >> I I suggest that we go back to the 81 00:06:53,840 --> 00:07:00,479 county and ask and see if we can get some sort of timeline and so we so then 82 00:06:59,039 --> 00:07:05,280 we know what we're talking about. >> Yeah. Um in speaking with the county, um 83 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:10,479 we have our um project that we're doing with the uh our grant where we're 84 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:15,360 replacing the storm sewers from um in front of the this building here all the 85 00:07:12,479 --> 00:07:19,680 uh down to the east. And that's that's part of the the rebuttalization. So in 86 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:23,360 our our work with the in my discussion with the county, they're only doing Main 87 00:07:21,039 --> 00:07:28,240 Street, not Gramp Street. So it'll just be Main Street and West Lauren. So it's 88 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:34,639 really not included in that in that um development. So and when we do do Main 89 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:38,720 Street though, it'll be looked at um what's what the needs are. But this 90 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:44,880 study, what we're putting together here is more of a a community holistic 91 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:48,960 approach. So when we do the holistic approach of the sidewalk study that 92 00:07:46,479 --> 00:07:53,440 would be required, it kind of outlays the sidewalks that um or the c 93 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:57,840 sidewalks/carwalks that we have throughout the whole community and 94 00:07:55,199 --> 00:08:04,080 determines the needs for that. Um whether we do the crosswalks that are 95 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:08,240 happening with the construction work that'll be just the crosswalks that'll 96 00:08:05,759 --> 00:08:13,199 get installed and but not the counts that really reflect that in that one 97 00:08:10,879 --> 00:08:18,319 area. we could suggest that those counts get done before um the commit the 98 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:21,599 commitments of the work at the intersection get done. Um we can 99 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:27,120 definitely move forward with that. That'll be a uh a lot less money to be 100 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:33,279 able to move forward with that. But at the same time like these these areas are 101 00:08:29,599 --> 00:08:37,680 for setups in um and getting the the holistic approach of the whole street 102 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:43,360 for Graham Road um down all the way down to the past a high school and all the 103 00:08:40,399 --> 00:08:50,000 way up past uh Tim Hortons um to Jane Street there to where the sidewalk ends 104 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:54,480 and then from um at the intersection of Graham and Maine all the way out to the 105 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:58,959 edge of the the town there. be approximately around Monroe Street. I I 106 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:04,320 can't recall the name the street off the top of my head and all and past um into 107 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:08,399 Wood Street going to the east. So, we get that that whole feel of how the flow 108 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:16,399 works. That's where the the intent of the study was and on in Rodney as well 109 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:21,519 from um where the pool access is um down through to Clark Street um to get the 110 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:26,480 the downtown core figured out if what kind of crossings we need there. So, um, 111 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:31,600 if we if we're going to move forward with that, um, that this is what this 112 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:35,680 study would kind of entail. Um, I understand that there is exceptional 113 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:41,646 cost to this, but that also kind of tells us what we what needs we have for 114 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:45,519 this study. So, [clears throat] 115 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:50,480 » Deputy Mayor Ellier, Die, >> thank you and through the chair to you. 116 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:55,600 Thank you for this uh report. um really detailed and uh outlines everything we 117 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:59,440 had questions about basically. Um I won't speak to the village of West 118 00:09:57,519 --> 00:10:03,120 Lauren as I believe councelor STM has echoed everything I was going to say and 119 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:07,200 has the same I have the same sentiments. It seems like a lot we should uh work 120 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:10,800 together with the county and look at that and maybe bring those costs down. 121 00:10:09,156 --> 00:10:15,760 [snorts] I will speak to my concern for the village of Rodney. So, um, the same 122 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:20,560 week that councelor Susa was bringing this, I was trying to bring it as well. 123 00:10:17,279 --> 00:10:24,560 But, um, you know, we can't have two. That doesn't make sense. So, um, what I 124 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:30,959 had for the village of Rodney was parents and, um, uh, some people some 125 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:36,480 drivers that were concerned, you can't see around at Queen, uh, Queens Line and 126 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:40,399 Vernal, and that's where a lot of people move in the summertime, uh, going back 127 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:45,680 and forth to the pool, back and forth to the park, and, uh, just meeting from 128 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:49,839 that area to uptown uh, into the village. So, what I'm wondering is if 129 00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:53,120 they did this study, could we look at it being around I know 130 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,880 that's a long way off, but when the pool's open, because right now in this, 131 00:10:55,519 --> 00:11:00,399 you know, this time of year, this season, not a lot of people are going 132 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:05,920 back and forth there where you can't see around the old, uh, form building there, 133 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:09,839 um, when you're driving, and that's the concern parents are having is trying to 134 00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:13,440 see around that, uh, people driving, trying to see around that for 135 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:17,040 pedestrians. Is there something that we could target for the season when 136 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:24,600 children are at school, riding their bikes, going to the pool and the parks 137 00:11:20,959 --> 00:11:24,600 and the library? 138 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:30,880 » Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah. For the um for the study time, 139 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,839 we're trying to get the the the approval process has to happen now. Um the study 140 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:41,519 time would be in the spring summer. Um, we could easily adjust uh Rodney to be 141 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:46,240 done closer to pool season to be able to get that done. Um, that's something that 142 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:50,640 uh we could look to get done, but I I would like to get uh West Lauren done 143 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:55,519 during like high school time where we have people walking around in the spring 144 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:59,360 uh around between May and June to get the the numbers that were will be 145 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:04,560 appropriate for when most crossings happen. So we we need to to build this 146 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:08,720 out from this time now to when we actually get the study done. Um when 147 00:12:06,959 --> 00:12:12,000 speaking with the consultants through when we were getting this like planned 148 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:16,560 out was that was the plan to have it done in the spring early summer time so 149 00:12:14,959 --> 00:12:20,639 that we can get the appropriate times done. I have to confirm about the pool 150 00:12:18,639 --> 00:12:25,120 timing and when that's open and how that's get affected but um I think 151 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:29,360 that's more appropriate for Rodney. >> Okay. Just a followup if I may. 152 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:32,160 » Yes. Um, just a thought. I can I've been sitting on council for seven or 153 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:36,720 something years now and I can just hear parents saying, "Great, you did a study, 154 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:41,040 but this is what I'm telling you. This is what I'm seeing. This is what like 155 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:46,800 they're not going to accept a study if it says that there's not enough traffic. 156 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:50,720 Um, and they're going to be shocked that we spent how much money to put towards a 157 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:54,639 study and something that they're visually seeing, knowing with their 158 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:58,959 families and themselves when they are driving. So I'm just concerned about 159 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:04,000 that. I I great studies are great, does our homework, all the background, but I 160 00:13:01,279 --> 00:13:10,560 just find we need to listen to our residents sometimes and not focus on an 161 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:16,160 outer influence. >> I just wonder [clears throat] 162 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:23,039 if um the consultant comes up with a solution that it doesn't justify one. So 163 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:27,680 there's 17,000 gone down the drain. [clears throat] if we can do them 164 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:34,639 cheaper through the county. Um I know for a fact it's going to be 40,000 plus 165 00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:40,480 each one and that was two or three years ago. I know that for a fact. So where do 166 00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:44,720 we keep where does all this money keep coming from? 167 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:50,079 » Yes, please. >> Mr. Mayor, if I might. So the reports 168 00:13:47,519 --> 00:13:53,120 before you to provide um costing for a study and the purpose of the study is to 169 00:13:51,839 --> 00:13:58,240 make sure that we are meeting the conditions of the um Ministry of 170 00:13:56,079 --> 00:14:03,440 Transportation and Regulations Act and it's for council's awareness of the data 171 00:14:01,199 --> 00:14:08,480 that we collect. Council then can decide to take or not take the information that 172 00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:12,880 we are providing you. However, from a staff perspective, our recommendation is 173 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:16,639 always to make sure you have the data so that you are making the best decision 174 00:14:14,399 --> 00:14:22,240 you can to direct the funds of the municipality. So, I think to answer the 175 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:27,040 question, if the data comes back and uh the study does not support something you 176 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:32,000 want to see, it is up to you to use that information and then make a decision. 177 00:14:29,839 --> 00:14:36,720 Then you I mean your decision may be based on this is what the community sees 178 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:41,040 as a need. But council then you have to understand anytime we implement an asset 179 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:45,920 we become responsible for the maintenance and insurance and liability 180 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:50,240 of that asset. You can decide that this is still where we want one 181 00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:54,720 because you're using the support and information of the community but as 182 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:58,639 staff what we are saying is we are just providing you with the data to say 183 00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:02,480 here's the most realistic place to put it or here's what the data supports to 184 00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:06,399 put it. You certainly can use information from outside sources in the 185 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:11,399 decision- making. >> Thank you. Further questions, please. 186 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:18,000 » Councelor Stith. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And through you, 187 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:22,560 just a just a followup. I I'd like to reiterate I $17,000 is not uh an amount 188 00:15:20,959 --> 00:15:27,360 of money that I would be comfortable spending on the sidewalk crossing study. 189 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:33,279 Having said that, is it possible to do a portion of that study or a significant 190 00:15:29,279 --> 00:15:37,040 portion of it on a in an in-house basis? Do we have the do we have the 191 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:42,160 certifications necessary to communicate with the MTO and and do the traffic 192 00:15:40,079 --> 00:15:47,360 studies? I mean, I'm assuming it's, you know, vehicle counts and and, you know, 193 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:50,639 maybe uh pedestrian counts and, you know, I'd like understand there's some 194 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:54,959 work involved, but doing it inhouse, would that potentially decrease that 195 00:15:52,639 --> 00:16:00,560 cost? And again, understanding that there's staff time involved. Um, but is 196 00:15:58,079 --> 00:16:07,279 that something that we could do inhouse? Thank you. 197 00:16:03,519 --> 00:16:11,519 » Yes, please. Or for in-house um work, it's it's we don't have the staff 198 00:16:09,839 --> 00:16:16,079 available to do that. That's that's the issue is like we don't have traffic 199 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,639 engineers [clears throat] on staff or we don't have I could have my public works 200 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:24,399 guys go out there and count but at the same time that takes away from the 201 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:29,519 services that we've already provided. So, it's it's where we want to direct 202 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:35,759 our staff to to do that work. And then from after that counting is done, then 203 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:41,440 where do we where do we look at be able to process that data? Cuz in in these 204 00:16:37,839 --> 00:16:47,040 studies, it's not just um the work that is involved in having the the data 205 00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:51,120 collected, but it's also be able to take the data and have a recommendation to 206 00:16:49,199 --> 00:16:57,519 move forward to council. So that's one of the the things that really takes that 207 00:16:54,399 --> 00:17:02,320 um we don't have the staff to be able to um move forward with. So I would love to 208 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:08,240 say yes, but just don't. So I I wonder if we approach uh the county if they've 209 00:17:05,679 --> 00:17:12,799 got the means to be able to do that. I mean they look at junctions and know 210 00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:16,959 when that they've got reduced speeds and things for safeties, etc., etc. So 211 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:24,959 they're bound to have something. I'm just wondering if they may have what we 212 00:17:19,919 --> 00:17:28,960 need to do that job at at a cheaper rate because we don't have to make a decision 213 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:35,960 on this. This is not going to get passed until the 22nd and so we have time to be 214 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,960 able to make those inquiries. 215 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:44,720 » Councelor Susa, Mr. there. Um just I was doing a little 216 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:50,640 bit of reading and I I read the new um transportation master plan or TMP. So if 217 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:55,200 I'm I'm leaning [clears throat] towards like can we like you say can we not work 218 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:59,840 with Alen County to clarify what is required to install crosswalks under 219 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:05,440 their newly formed transportation master plan or TMP. I understand this is new 220 00:18:03,679 --> 00:18:08,720 and there will be new guideline policies in 2026. 221 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:15,200 For example, I read there's a little section in in phase two and three of the 222 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:20,640 draft report under page 52, action I1 states to develop clear and consistent 223 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:26,240 decisionmaking framework for implementing pedestrian crossing 224 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:31,039 opportunities across county roadways in collaboration with local municipal 225 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:35,919 partners and where current pedestrian infrastructure exists. 226 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:40,400 I I I I firmly believe we should be working with the county for future 227 00:18:37,679 --> 00:18:43,360 implementation like some of the newer updated policies. I think we should work 228 00:18:41,919 --> 00:18:48,160 with the county to find out the most cost effective way installing the 229 00:18:45,679 --> 00:18:51,200 crosswalks. >> Yeah, I agree. 230 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:56,360 » Thank you. >> Thank you. Any further questions? 231 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,240 Seeing none. >> Sorry. 232 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:09,919 » So, Mr. Mayor, I believe the recommendation of this report was to 233 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:13,520 move this forward to January 22nd, though I hearing a lot of sort of 234 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,799 questions from council. So, I guess council needs to consider is do you want 235 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:20,559 the report sort of in its structure right now to go forward or are you 236 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,559 wanting us then maybe to return later in February answering some of the questions 237 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,559 we've heard today? 238 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:33,118 » Yeah. Can you say something? I am not comfortable spending $17,000 on a 239 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:37,120 report. So, I would say hard hard [clears throat] no on on my part. I I 240 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:40,080 think that we can work to councelor Seuss's point. I think we can work with 241 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:46,559 the county. I think there are other alternatives. Um but $17,000 for a 242 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:49,520 report and then $40,000 for every individual crossing. Mr. Mayor, if I 243 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:53,679 heard you correctly, I think that's what you said. I we just don't have the we 244 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,480 don't have the funds for that. So, you know, I would say let's put this off. 245 00:19:55,039 --> 00:20:01,120 Let's see if we can work with the county. Uh let's see if we can find a 246 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:05,480 more reasonable solution and and go from there. That that would be my opinion. 247 00:20:05,919 --> 00:20:14,559 » I I personally think we should go try the county as best we can and then talk 248 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:19,760 it over again and come back. >> I agree. C I agree. 249 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:23,600 » So >> to our clerk, would you need then a 250 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,160 motion to amend the recommendation? >> Yes. 251 00:20:33,919 --> 00:20:37,760 So, >> sorry. I still I still want I still 252 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:44,760 wanted through you, Mr. Chair. Um, I just still want to thank Dave for all 253 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,760 his work on doing this. Thank you. 254 00:20:46,799 --> 00:20:54,520 » Okay. >> So, do I have a motion to amend? 255 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,520 » I'll put that motion forward. 256 00:20:56,159 --> 00:21:02,960 And your amendment being to return to the committee a whole with further to 257 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:08,640 respond to questions or >> that we that we uh defer this until we 258 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:11,280 uh have a chance to communicate with the county 259 00:21:09,679 --> 00:21:14,080 » and we get further information >> investigate and see if we can find some 260 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:20,120 further information that's going to assist us in making this uh decision at 261 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,120 a lower cost. 262 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:25,919 Just give Terry a moment to try to draft them in. 263 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,454 » Sorry, Terry. >> That's okay. [laughter] 264 00:21:38,559 --> 00:21:44,840 We just wait a minute or two and we'll have another resolution. 265 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:56,240 about to return to the committee of a whole at a future date to discover 266 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:59,840 funding >> alter 267 00:21:57,039 --> 00:22:03,200 » alternative sources of funding. >> I think it's important there to say to 268 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:09,440 return the committee whole after conversations with the county exploring 269 00:22:05,679 --> 00:22:12,760 options and alternative funding. Great thing 270 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,679 for the alternative funding but lower funding 271 00:22:26,159 --> 00:22:33,440 after exploring options. Thank you. Uh so return to committee of 272 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:38,640 the whole after exploring options with the county of Elgen to discover 273 00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:41,760 alternative funding sources. >> I think it's not just the funding 274 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:46,880 sources. I think the issue really is around speaking with working with the 275 00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:52,960 county of Elgen to explore um like engineering options so or consulting 276 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:56,400 options alternative consulting options. Yeah. 277 00:22:54,480 --> 00:23:01,679 And I'm speaking include sources of funding too 278 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:06,000 » and may maybe following their updated policies because I'm reading about this 279 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:11,520 new the new policies that's coming out and I think some of the stuff is being 280 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:14,400 more clarified and changed. >> I think there are investigating 281 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,679 conversations with the county. We can make sure we lean into that and ask. 282 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:22,880 » Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. So motion to amend from councelor 283 00:23:20,559 --> 00:23:27,280 Stithm I have. So return to the committee of the whole after exploring 284 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,760 options with the county of Elgen to discover alternative consulting options 285 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:35,200 and funding sources. >> Okay. 286 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:37,760 » Does that capture? >> I I think so. Yeah. The rest of 287 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,760 council's in agreement >> that covers it. 288 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,440 » Yeah. Is the rest of council in agreement with that? 289 00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:43,600 » So I think so. >> We have a move. 290 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:46,080 » Yeah. So >> want to say 291 00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:48,720 » included in that motion. And I will I will include that the West Elgen 292 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:53,440 committee of the whole hereby receives the report from Dave Sharon, manager of 293 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:57,360 infrastructure and development and that the uh we return to committee of the 294 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:02,480 whole after exploring options with the county of Elgen to discover alternative 295 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:06,039 consulting options and funding sources. >> Yeah, that's fair. 296 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:16,000 So I'm going to second it. >> Okay. 297 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:24,440 Second mover seconded. All in favor? That's carries. 298 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:24,440 Thank you. And we move to 4.1.2 299 00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:33,360 water connections by law. Dave, it's over to you again. 300 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:39,039 » Thanks. Um the I brought I'm bringing this to the committee of pole to discuss 301 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:46,080 um a bylaw that we that was passed by council um on uh in 302 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:55,520 2020 at the end of 2024 is regarding the um water connections uh 303 00:24:50,400 --> 00:25:00,640 for water services. Um I want to just to set this out there to clarify some of 304 00:24:57,679 --> 00:25:07,840 that bylaw that we have set out. Um there's connection fees um that are in 305 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:14,320 the bylaw that uh indicate um connection fees that were 306 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:21,200 not clarified to have 307 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:27,120 the capital costs that were uh in that were laid out in bylaws to um the 308 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:33,360 municipality that included by capital costs and connection fees. So those 309 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:38,960 those fees were um in different bylaws that weren't weren't repealed in the 310 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:47,440 bylaw that was set out in 2024. Um in in my report we it uh indicates the 311 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:52,480 the issues of the the capital costs and property owners perceive that the fees 312 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:58,799 could be unfair or inconsistent. Um the bylaw charges that will be updated 313 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:05,520 will be um in the attached bylaw that I've have for draft in the in our 314 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:12,720 report. Um [gasps] it there'll be just one fee or one fee plus um 315 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:18,159 sorry uh one fee per connection size and then 316 00:26:15,919 --> 00:26:24,880 with additional cost of uh materials, labor and machine time that go along 317 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:30,720 with it. Um this bylaw that is drafted has been sent to the county for uh 318 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:35,039 review as well. Uh we're I'm in discussion with them. When we when I 319 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:40,240 pull this to council at the next meeting, uh it will have any update or 320 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:46,000 changes to that as well. I think there was some small um wording changes that 321 00:26:42,559 --> 00:26:52,400 I've discussed with them um to clarify. Um these 322 00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:57,760 these charges will ensure like transparency and fairness um for the uh 323 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,679 const for the residents of West Alvin that are looking to connect 324 00:26:59,178 --> 00:27:07,679 [clears throat] and um there will be fair predictable costs and alignment 325 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:13,279 with construction costs and support any future development to the system that we 326 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:16,880 have. So if anybody has any questions. >> Thank you. 327 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:22,320 Um, unfortunately, water's always expensive. 328 00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:28,320 I don't care which way you look at it. Um, but I always think that it's always 329 00:27:25,679 --> 00:27:33,840 been unfair when you you get different roads on different prices. And I think 330 00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:39,520 it's nice to get things stabilized quite a lot so people know exactly where 331 00:27:36,159 --> 00:27:45,440 they're going. Um, okay. On subdivisions, we know the price is down. 332 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:51,679 There's a lot of houses close together, but you know when you get 333 00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:56,799 one side road which might be 9,000 and another one might be 15 and another one 334 00:27:53,840 --> 00:28:03,080 might even be a lot more than that and I think it's time we stabilized it so 335 00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:03,080 everybody knows what they're doing. 336 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:09,520 » Councelor Denning, please. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. Dave, 337 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:13,679 thank you for the report. uh absolutely makes sense and and benefits the 338 00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:19,600 individual who's looking to uh take advantage of water services. But the 339 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:23,840 current formula now being um being changed to benefit that [clears throat] 340 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:28,720 individual um where does the municipality um um get that loss 341 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:34,000 compensation is that going to be on the backs of the taxpayers in general? So 342 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:37,039 what I mean is that if we do this, do we have to find that do we have to find 343 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:42,320 that money somewhere else? And if so, where's that where does that come from? 344 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:46,880 » The initial capital cost that came through before this bylaw was assessed 345 00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:51,840 was there was the capital cost of the water main that went through plus the 346 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:57,919 connection fee. That connection fee was was $1,200 previously. Now that 347 00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:04,159 connection fee can be is basically for a 1 in for a urban field is $15,000. So 348 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:10,000 that connection fee substantially went up so that all the people are paying 349 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:14,960 appropriate fees to that fee. So it's it's there's a win some lose some um 350 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:20,559 mentality to this cuz sometimes that connection fee would have been under 351 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:27,200 that $15,000 value prior to this uh bylaw that got passed in 2024. So now 352 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:33,760 it's it's more of a a lined fee rather than um a a capital plus a smaller 353 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:40,240 connection fee that was in place prior to this fee going through. 354 00:29:38,159 --> 00:29:43,840 » Yes. Thank you. Thank you for that, Dave. So then um we had a gentleman in 355 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:48,080 here um a month and a half, two months ago expressing his frustration with this 356 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,799 very situation. It sounds like this is one of the things that we've done to to 357 00:29:50,399 --> 00:29:56,000 address that. But does that address it? Like if we move forward with this, does 358 00:29:54,640 --> 00:30:01,039 somebody like that gentleman who was in here a month and a half ago, will he now 359 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:05,520 would he benefit from this? >> The the gentleman that was in here a 360 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:10,799 month and a half ago, he actually was on a a water man that didn't have a capital 361 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:15,279 cost. So he his connection costs would have been less in the in this case 362 00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:20,240 because the connection cost that got passed in the bylaw 363 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:25,440 ramp them up to the $15,000 charge. since the water man that was in front of 364 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:31,200 that road didn't have a capital charge because of the um the situation it was 365 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:36,559 when the water man was installed. So some it was a it's a mismash of capital 366 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:42,960 charges that were happening throughout the municipality. So some people um had 367 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:47,039 a capital charge of 20 $30,000. Some people had a capital charge of $4,000. 368 00:30:45,279 --> 00:30:51,039 And then in this ca in this gentleman's case, his capital charge was actually 369 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:57,520 zero because of where it was put in at the time. So that's uh it's it really uh 370 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:01,200 sets a sets a bar across the whole municipality to have a an understanding 371 00:30:59,679 --> 00:31:07,399 of how much you're going to pay before you're going to put it in. So 372 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,399 » thank you. 373 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:14,000 Mr. Stathithm, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Through you. I I 374 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:19,200 guess it's more of a in terms of fairness, the properties, I 375 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:24,559 mean, rural properties in in this uh sort of scenario are are paying more uh 376 00:31:22,559 --> 00:31:26,559 you know, and that makes sense. Uh you know, because there's more 377 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:33,120 infrastructure that needs to be installed. Uh I just wonder 378 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:38,320 does that maybe feel slightly punitive to these people if the lines are ex 379 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:43,360 extended in that area without their input and then they try to connect to 380 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:46,080 that line. It's going to cost them more, but they weren't involved in the 381 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,840 installation of the infrastructure to begin with. I I guess what I'm trying to 382 00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:54,399 say is are we are we fair across the board, especially 383 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:57,760 rural properties, because the rural uh rural residents are going to pay 384 00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:01,840 significantly more for this than than people in the villages, for example. And 385 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:07,279 I'm just I guess my question is you know if if a line is extended down you know 386 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:10,799 whatever uh let's say silver clay you know for example and then you know have 387 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:14,880 someone that wants to hook up onto it the line's already been extended there. 388 00:32:12,399 --> 00:32:18,720 They're going to pay more for that um but that line was extended there without 389 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:24,240 their input. So you know you understand what I'm getting at. 390 00:32:21,279 --> 00:32:28,320 » Yeah. So to help you clarify this like a lot of these charges help us with when 391 00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:33,679 the water man has to be replaced as well. So water manes don't last forever. 392 00:32:31,039 --> 00:32:38,960 Um when when they have to go to repair the water man um if there's any problems 393 00:32:36,399 --> 00:32:44,960 on it helps um justify those charges when we do any repairs as well. So in if 394 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:49,519 it is an urban setting there's um a repair that has to happen it will get 395 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:53,919 spread around around more people rather than the limited number of people that 396 00:32:51,200 --> 00:33:00,880 would happen in a in a rural setting. So it uh it helps justify that these these 397 00:32:58,159 --> 00:33:09,440 um this bot was was approved already to with these prices back in 2024. Um so 398 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:14,640 that um we're just in the in the update we're just trying to clarify um what 399 00:33:12,159 --> 00:33:20,320 capital charges versus what connection charges are. So 400 00:33:17,679 --> 00:33:23,720 » thank you. Other questions? 401 00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:29,320 looking at the number. 402 00:33:29,563 --> 00:33:34,279 [clears throat] >> I don't see any. 403 00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,919 » So, could we have the recommendation, please? 404 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,279 The recommendation is that the West Elgen Committee of the whole hereby 405 00:33:41,519 --> 00:33:46,399 receives the report from Dave Sharon, manager of infrastructure and 406 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:51,600 development, and that West Elgen Committee of the Whole hereby recommends 407 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:57,519 that West Elgen Council at its January 22nd, 2026 regular meeting repeal bylaw 408 00:33:55,279 --> 00:34:02,320 2024-75 and replace it with an updated version 409 00:34:00,159 --> 00:34:08,440 with the changes noted below as supported by the attached document. 410 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:08,440 Could 411 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:17,200 I have a mover for that please? Councelor Denning 412 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:22,280 second deputy mayor tellier. All in favor 413 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,280 that's carries. 414 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:32,720 Thank you. And we go to 4.1.3 415 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:36,359 verbal discussion landfill concerns. 416 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,800 » And is it you? >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. About the 417 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:45,200 conversation, Dave and I are looking at each other like who wants to start this 418 00:34:42,079 --> 00:34:49,760 off? So, council, during the um holiday break, we did notice some emails going 419 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:54,800 around and some questions around the upcoming spring uh which we typically 420 00:34:52,399 --> 00:34:59,520 have, which is a large drop off at our landfill. And so, we wanted to bring to 421 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:03,839 this to the committee of the whole to start hearing some of your questions and 422 00:35:01,119 --> 00:35:09,680 concerns so we can start to investigate how maybe we should be best proceeding. 423 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:13,760 And if council remembers um sort of mid last year, we received a report from 424 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:18,560 blue metrics which was talking about the general health of our landfill and the 425 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:23,920 anticipated time of which we will be receiving re um achieving sort of 426 00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:28,720 capacity. And prior to that report, we were uh noting that we had about 20 25 427 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:35,200 years and then last year's report indicated we have about five. 428 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:40,800 And so we have limited time left within that landfill. Um in year 2025 budget, 429 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:45,359 we were already starting to put down items and discussions on prepar 430 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:49,760 preparations for the closure of that landfill and then our commitments going 431 00:35:48,079 --> 00:35:55,280 forward. showing what would be cost to cap the landfill and then our 432 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:59,760 obligations to continue to um monitor and have consultants actually come in 433 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:03,520 and monitor and report on the landfill sort of going forward which I believe is 434 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,280 at least 25 years >> after 435 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,480 » after closure. after closure. >> So council, I guess what we're wanting 436 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:15,119 to do is start start a little bit of a conversation around 437 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:19,839 how are we going to be proceeding knowing that what we really are is end 438 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:24,480 of life and how do we best manage a landfill that has very limited capacity? 439 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:28,480 How long do we sort of preserve the capacity we have and what sort of 440 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:33,040 programs should we be continuing with, not continuing with or looking forward 441 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:37,280 to continuing this? And by that I mean things like communication programs and 442 00:36:35,599 --> 00:36:42,000 starting having conversations with the community around reduce, reuse, recycle. 443 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,680 Because not only are we looking at the closure of a landfill, we are also 444 00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:49,119 looking at the additional expenses because maintaining that as a transfer 445 00:36:47,599 --> 00:36:52,800 station means we then are going to be picking up the cost of anything that 446 00:36:51,359 --> 00:36:58,320 would have typically been dropped off there and put into our landfill now will 447 00:36:55,359 --> 00:37:02,720 be carded to um the landfill in Southorld and we'll be paying those 448 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:06,960 tipping fees. And to add into the conversation, council, for your 449 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:11,200 awareness, last year at Rome, I attended um 450 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:15,680 a information session, I believe it was on the Ministry of Environment around 451 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:20,320 overall capacity of landfills in Ontario. And at this moment in time, 452 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:25,760 they're predicting we have at least or at the most, I should actually say at 453 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:29,839 the most, 10 years of landfill capacity. And that wasn't even with the 454 00:37:27,359 --> 00:37:35,599 consideration of the impact of tariffs and the potential for the United States 455 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:41,599 to reduce or overall refuse any of our garbage going across the border. So they 456 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:46,560 do anticipate that to be an accelerated um sort of closure date for the all of 457 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:52,400 our like that's capacity we have is 10 years and 10 years seems like such a far 458 00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:56,960 time away but it's not considering we need to also deal with how do we set up 459 00:37:54,160 --> 00:38:01,359 new landfills. So I'm I'm just putting that information there. Maybe Dave has 460 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:05,839 more to add to this conversation, but to really have maybe something from 461 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:09,440 counselor start the conversation about how should we look at proceeding knowing 462 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:14,400 that this is the information in front of us. 463 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:17,920 » Yeah, I think Robin hit the head on the nail on the head on a lot of that stuff. 464 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:23,760 So, we just want to make sure when we do offer 465 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:29,440 um any free days or or be able to track what we're doing and have an actual cost 466 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,960 to it as well cuz if when we have these days, there is a a cost that's 467 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:37,680 associated with it on our end that we're offering too. So, we just want to make 468 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:44,160 sure that we can track and monitor all those as we move forward. So 469 00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:48,079 » yes, Steph, >> thank you through the chair and thank 470 00:38:45,359 --> 00:38:51,040 you so much for that discussion. Um, I'm the one that sent out the email in 471 00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:56,560 regards to wondering what what was going on with it. So what I'm worried about is 472 00:38:54,160 --> 00:39:01,359 great. We put education out there. We educate the public and the residents in 473 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:05,599 regards to the lifespan of our landfill. Not sure what the lifespan of the South 474 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:11,839 Landfill is, but that's probably also got a end date as well. Um, 475 00:39:09,359 --> 00:39:15,599 and we get a lot of calls for people that have, you know, there's been a 476 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:20,000 couch on the side of the road for 4 months or, you know, things aren't 477 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:23,280 looking so great. We already see dumped Christmas trees. We didn't announce our 478 00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:27,599 drop off. They already just said, you know, forget it. I'll just take it to 479 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:34,160 Kur Road and dump it there. Um, so I'm just I mean, we offer leaf and garden 480 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,560 pickup and people drive down the railway tracks and dump their leaves anyways. 481 00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:42,640 They don't even leave them at the side of the road um for pickup. So, I'm just 482 00:39:39,359 --> 00:39:47,599 worried about um our sidewalks, our roadways, 483 00:39:45,839 --> 00:39:52,720 uh side of the road, everything looking horrible. Um because as much education 484 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:57,359 as we put out, there's always the people that say, "I didn't know that. I don't 485 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,640 have the information. I don't know where these people are looking, but it's 486 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:04,400 everywhere to educate people." when we're putting flyers out, putting things 487 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:09,200 in with our tax bills, water bills, every time we put out education for 488 00:40:05,839 --> 00:40:14,560 anything like this, um there's always a blind eye to something. And I'm just 489 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:19,920 really worried if we don't educate 490 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:24,960 so much, just overdo it, um that that's what our roadways are going to look like 491 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:28,720 with couches and garbage everywhere. um because it already is a little bit of a 492 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:36,480 problem now that we don't have the at curb pickup when we eliminated that in 493 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:41,213 2022 fall uh I guess the winter of 2022. Um to not have it that spring and I'm 494 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,000 worried that that's what's [clears throat] just going to look like 495 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:49,359 uh landfill at our curb sides unfortunately. 496 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:54,079 » Yeah, very unfortunately. Um, 497 00:40:51,359 --> 00:40:57,680 if we carry on collecting these large items, 498 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:03,599 our streets are going to be full very quickly because once our landfills 499 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:08,240 filled, we're done. So, 500 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:15,280 it do you want it now or do you want it later? And that's what it's going to 501 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:19,680 come down to. Councelor Stithm. >> Uh, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I [snorts] 502 00:41:18,319 --> 00:41:23,839 I think I might have asked this question in the past, but I I just want to be 503 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:28,240 clear about it. Is there no capacity to expand the landfill? Like I understand 504 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:33,839 that we can through through the ministry, we can apply for additional 505 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:37,839 cells uh to be added to the landfill. Is that is that a possibility, Dave, or is 506 00:41:36,319 --> 00:41:42,960 that is that something that's out of the question? Is it a cost issue? Uh and and 507 00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:45,520 maybe what are those costs? or is this something that we should just uh you 508 00:41:44,319 --> 00:41:51,200 know we're going to shut it down and that's the end of it. 509 00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:57,200 » Uh the issue with the landfill that we have is it's not located in the most 510 00:41:53,359 --> 00:42:02,000 ideal location. the landfill surrounded by gravel pits and it was in that was 511 00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:08,800 was one of the landfill before it was a gravel pit and having landfill be a 512 00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:14,960 gravel pit is not the ideal um land for it because as gravel runs water through 513 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:20,400 the there's more chance for environmental concerns as we have that. 514 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:25,520 So to expand the the landfill that we have, we could go up, but as we go up, 515 00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:32,240 we create more problems because it you you just limit yourself as you go up as 516 00:42:27,359 --> 00:42:36,880 well. So um the having the land have being in the business of garbage is is a 517 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:41,359 difficult business because then we're we have to mon continue monitoring it for 518 00:42:38,720 --> 00:42:47,040 years and years after what we have. And it's it's um being being a municipality 519 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:51,119 and not being a garbage not having a garbage expert, it's it's really tough 520 00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:56,319 to be able to run that run that forward. So 521 00:42:53,680 --> 00:43:00,640 » yeah, just thank you David. I appreciate it. So So the concern is that because of 522 00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:05,680 the location, it's it's on a limestone gravel pit. Um and we're concerned about 523 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:11,520 the leech uh coming out of the the landfill. Are there not liners or other 524 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:15,040 solutions that again I I don't I want to I don't want to keep harping on the the 525 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:20,800 concept of expanding the landfill but if the concern is that we're going to close 526 00:43:17,599 --> 00:43:27,119 the landfill is do we have the option of expanding it or or no? 527 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:31,920 » So I the landfill is going to get full. We can't expand it. If you if you did 528 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:36,880 what you said, it would eventually fill up with surface water and everything 529 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:40,359 else and spill over and it would pollute just the same. 530 00:43:41,599 --> 00:43:48,400 » Okay. So, well, that's that's the question I have. Like, are 531 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:53,920 » we do have wells all the way around and some of them were were clean. We 532 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:59,040 extended the the fill a little a little bit. We bought some land some years ago 533 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:04,240 and it wasn't long before those clean wells started to get polluted. So where 534 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:07,839 do you go? You just go bigger and bigger and bigger and we're just not allowed to 535 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,880 do that. >> Yeah. No, I understand. I I guess my, 536 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,960 you know, when you're looking at a 10-year time frame on on no more, you 537 00:44:13,200 --> 00:44:17,760 know, garbage being accepted in Ontario, I mean, there's going to have to be a 538 00:44:16,319 --> 00:44:21,200 solution. I feel like with the technology that exists, you know, maybe 539 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:25,680 there's a there's a possibility of installing liners or, you know, I I 540 00:44:24,079 --> 00:44:30,079 don't know a lot about landfill. It's far beyond my area of expertise. But if 541 00:44:28,079 --> 00:44:33,839 if the landfill is at capacity and we can't expand it and that's not possible, 542 00:44:31,839 --> 00:44:38,319 then that's that's one thing. If there is the possibility of expanding it 543 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:41,359 potentially, uh, you know, and I' I'd like to know if that's a possibility and 544 00:44:39,839 --> 00:44:46,240 and what the cost would be. I guess that's my question. But from what I'm 545 00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:50,000 hearing is it's just not feasible. Not really. No. If 546 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:53,760 » I might, Mr. Mayor, please. >> We can start to investigate what the 547 00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:57,359 options might be at the existing site. We know they're limited due to the 548 00:44:55,839 --> 00:45:02,160 substrate that's there. So, the land that's surrounding it, but we can 549 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:06,960 certainly investigate to see. Um, that's an option as to do we expand, are we 550 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:12,000 looking at another landfill? The other question is what do we do in 5 years if 551 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:15,520 we don't have a landfill, which is the other part of the question I think we 552 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:18,800 have to make sure we're focused on. For sure. And if you look at some of the 553 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,240 other landfills, I mean, 10 years, what's Ontario going to do with our And 554 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:27,119 if we would stop trucking in garbage from Detroit, I mean, maybe that would 555 00:45:24,319 --> 00:45:30,960 help, but I mean, outside of the conversation, but 556 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,400 we're going to have to come up with a solution one way or the other. And 557 00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:39,040 whether we're trucking it to Green Lane or we're taking it to Watford or taking 558 00:45:37,359 --> 00:45:40,480 it elsewhere in the province, we're still going to have to come up with a 559 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:43,280 solution. >> Significant cost. 560 00:45:41,839 --> 00:45:44,160 » Well, it's going to be a cost no matter what we do. 561 00:45:43,839 --> 00:45:48,480 » Yeah. >> Right. So, one way or the other, we're 562 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:51,280 gonna have to come up with a >> matellia. 563 00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,560 » Thank you through the chair and thank you for your thoughts. Councelor Stithm, 564 00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:00,079 um, kind of looking at a different gear. When we have someone who's dumped a I'll 565 00:45:57,599 --> 00:46:04,000 say a couch, dumped a couch somewhere, what does that cost us in staff time and 566 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,680 then if someone also is collecting things on their property and it becomes 567 00:46:05,599 --> 00:46:11,359 a property standard concern, what does that look like for staff time? I wonder 568 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:16,160 if I can get I don't know if that's a motion I need to make or what to just 569 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:21,119 have a quick report back um looking in the future if we don't have 570 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:26,079 the I call it anything day but you know the low fee day or whatever we want to 571 00:46:22,720 --> 00:46:31,440 call it um in the spring cleanup if we don't have that and people ignore or say 572 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:34,880 there wasn't education um and start dumping things what does that look like 573 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:39,359 for staff time and eventually down the road if someone decides to Sanford and 574 00:46:37,839 --> 00:46:43,200 Sun and collect 100 things on their lawn. What does that look like for the 575 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,359 price? >> The price, 576 00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:51,119 » but we still have to take it somewhere. >> That's true. Yeah. So, what does that I 577 00:46:49,839 --> 00:46:54,560 think that's if I might, Mr. Mayor, that's something we probably Dave had 578 00:46:53,119 --> 00:46:58,720 actually beginning of the conversation was talking about running free days, 579 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:04,000 picking up garbage like we really should be putting a a cost to that. Um, if it 580 00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:07,520 is property standards of which we have to go in, I believe the bill goes back 581 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:12,560 to the property owner. Okay, that's what I just wanted to if it is if it is a 582 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:17,760 random couch on the side of the road then I think currently we're we're we're 583 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:21,839 cleaning it up. I mean we may also need to look at certain bylaws which you know 584 00:47:20,319 --> 00:47:25,839 look at both the carrot and the stick. How do you incentivize people to 585 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:30,240 actually to become mindful and aware of the garbage we are producing as an 586 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:34,160 individual and as society? What are our policies? So, you know, some 587 00:47:32,079 --> 00:47:37,839 municipalities limit, City of Toronto limits the amount of garbage, making 588 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:43,280 sure we have programs in place that encourage recycling. So, whether that's 589 00:47:40,319 --> 00:47:50,079 your yard waste, your food waste, your um your lawn waste, so we're not putting 590 00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:53,440 grass clipping and and trees and things that can biodegrade into our landfill, 591 00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:57,520 but we're setting up programs that we have spaces of which we can accept those 592 00:47:55,520 --> 00:48:00,960 of which they can then decompose and not take up space. So there's I think 593 00:47:59,359 --> 00:48:04,960 there's many solutions we have to start looking at, but one also may be that, 594 00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,760 you know, we we have to look at charging the land owner if they put something out 595 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,720 in front of their property >> for x amount of days kind of thing, 596 00:48:09,119 --> 00:48:14,640 » then we we pick it up, but we have to build back and and that's for council's 597 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:18,800 consideration, right? I think there are many things this council needs to start 598 00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:24,240 or this municipality needs to start looking at because the clock is ticking. 599 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:27,040 » Yeah. I'm just trying to not have uh a go back on all the taxpayers when 600 00:48:26,319 --> 00:48:30,559 someone >> That's correct. discard something um and 601 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:36,400 what that looks like. So that would be great. Thank you. 602 00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:40,160 » Yes, Council Denn. >> Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor. 603 00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:45,440 Important conversation. Last year, we we made the change to um 604 00:48:43,599 --> 00:48:49,440 be a little more limited into what we were going to accept into the landfill. 605 00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:52,880 and a couple of the uh community owners came out to that meeting and on the way 606 00:48:51,119 --> 00:48:57,599 out the door, two or three of them expressed the concern that um it would 607 00:48:55,599 --> 00:49:02,720 represent more garbage bags in the ditch. I don't think that that's 608 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:07,760 necessarily occurred. I mean, I drive the gravel roads all the time. I haven't 609 00:49:04,319 --> 00:49:11,520 seen a big difference. And and yes, um we are in a predicament in the next 5 to 610 00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:15,760 10 years. we are going to be at capacity with our landfill, but then so is pretty 611 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:20,000 much every other municipality in Ontario and the province is going to have to 612 00:49:17,359 --> 00:49:24,800 step up and help uh be partners in in solving this problem. And I do believe 613 00:49:22,319 --> 00:49:30,960 that in the meantime um one of the the most proactive things that we can do is 614 00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:35,920 continue to be a place for people to to dump the things that they need to get 615 00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:38,880 rid of. Um, uh, Robin had a wonderful idea with, you know, diversion 616 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:42,400 techniques for grass clippings and compost and all that. But the fact of 617 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:46,640 the matter is is that we should be, uh, continuing to accept items and we should 618 00:49:44,319 --> 00:49:51,520 be charging appropriately and taking that money and putting into a reserve 619 00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:55,680 fund so that we have a fund in place in the future to maintain that landfill 620 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:59,359 after it's closed for the next 25 years. So that's not on the backs of the next 621 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:03,200 generation of taxpayers. I do believe that there shouldn't be anything for 622 00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:08,079 free at this point and that everything should have a cost because associated 623 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:11,280 with that cost is responsibility and people will think twice about the things 624 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:14,720 that they they bring out to the landfill. And at the end of the day, 625 00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:18,960 yes, everything has for the most part has a cost. I I think majority of people 626 00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:22,240 as long as they have a place to dump, they will be willing to pay the cost as 627 00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:27,520 opposed to putting couches on the sides of roads. I just haven't seen a whole 628 00:50:24,079 --> 00:50:33,200 lot of that. So, uh, having the the tipping fees, um, appropriate in 629 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:36,160 cost does two things. It does make people take consideration and be 630 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:38,800 responsible with the amount of things that they're bringing to our landfill, 631 00:50:37,359 --> 00:50:42,960 but at the same time, the things they do bring to the landfill will generate 632 00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:48,200 revenue to help uh, West Elgen in the future uh, financially maintain its 633 00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,200 responsibilities. 634 00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:54,800 » Thank you. Further questions? Yes, Councelor Stith. 635 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:59,280 » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And um and through you again I I I echo those sentiments. I 636 00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:02,480 think that if we were charging appropriately, we could generate a 637 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:06,880 reserve fund that would assist us in coming up with solutions down the road. 638 00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:10,720 And again, that could be revitalizing the existing landfills that we have. 639 00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:15,040 There are technologies out there, and I'm I'm sure Dave, I'm sure you're aware 640 00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:20,960 of these, but but certain uh leech collection and management systems, uh 641 00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:24,079 clay liners, uh geoexiles that we put underneath the land. There's no reason 642 00:51:22,319 --> 00:51:27,760 why we can't necessarily expand that landfill. It's possible. It's expensive, 643 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:31,280 but it's possible. And if we were charging the correct amount for the 644 00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:35,520 trash that's being placed in those landfills, the technology exists to make 645 00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:39,599 that something that we can continue to do into perpetuity almost. 646 00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:43,760 » Um, you know, I don't think that it's it's unreasonable to say that we we 647 00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:46,640 can't keep that landfill open. I I know we were talking about closing it, and 648 00:51:45,119 --> 00:51:50,640 again, I'm not a I'm not a landfill specialist, but I I do think that 649 00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:55,599 there's solutions. And and maybe the one of the solutions is to charge 650 00:51:52,319 --> 00:51:59,040 appropriately and that will reduce the amount of trash that we're receiving at 651 00:51:57,119 --> 00:52:02,880 the landfill because people are going to, you know, not necessarily you're not 652 00:52:01,359 --> 00:52:06,400 going to take six bags to the garbage dump if you know that you're going to 653 00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:09,359 have to pay for them, right? Maybe you'll take four and the rest of it 654 00:52:08,240 --> 00:52:14,866 you're going to throw in your burn pile or whatever, right? But 655 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:17,680 well, [clears throat] I don't know. I I guess 656 00:52:15,839 --> 00:52:20,720 what I'm saying is I I think it's a multifaceted approach that we have to 657 00:52:19,280 --> 00:52:24,079 take and I think, you know, saying that we're just going to shut down the 658 00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:26,880 landfill, you know, I don't necessarily think that that's the right solution, 659 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:30,720 but I I think there's a number of things that we could look at here. Increasing 660 00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:33,599 costs, I think, is is one of the ones we have to look at for sure. 661 00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:37,920 » But when you look it, you know, we haven't ne neglected the landfill 662 00:52:35,839 --> 00:52:40,800 totally. You know, when you finish a landfill, they put a certain amount of 663 00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:46,880 clay on the top >> capping. Yeah. It's capped so the rain 664 00:52:44,079 --> 00:52:52,160 water runs off, doesn't leech in, and then then takes the pollutants out. You 665 00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:57,319 know, it's done for a reason. So, we've done the best we can in in the 666 00:52:54,319 --> 00:52:57,319 circumstances. 667 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:08,559 Further questions, council, we'll just take some of the 668 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:11,520 information and comments we've heard today and we can start to explore. I 669 00:53:10,559 --> 00:53:14,960 think one of the things we'll have to do is either bring back to the committee a 670 00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,599 whole or to council is then around the question of free days. Well, I 671 00:53:16,319 --> 00:53:21,359 understand the concern is if there aren't free days, garbage pickup and 672 00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:24,480 pileup. Um though I heard councelor Jennings comment that saying when people 673 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:29,440 have to pay for it, they become a little more responsible. Um last year we did 674 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:34,400 have a concern on the free day the volume of people that were coming out to 675 00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:37,760 the landfill. Um to the point that I I did make comment to staff that if 676 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:42,000 there's far too many people, you need to close the door. like there's only so 677 00:53:39,599 --> 00:53:44,240 much we can accept. Um, one of the things that was a little bit 678 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:48,160 disheartening to me though was seeing what people were throwing taking to the 679 00:53:46,079 --> 00:53:52,720 landfill. Bikes that were in pretty good repair. Like these are things that can 680 00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:55,440 easily be recycled. Maybe you you can't repair it, but maybe we need to find a 681 00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:59,920 place where we can send them to be repaired and set up some industries 682 00:53:57,599 --> 00:54:04,720 around that. is it's so easy for people to dump when we don't have to think 683 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:09,599 about the cost and we don't think about uh the impact the environmental impact 684 00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:14,160 that it has and the the future is coming a lot faster I think than than we 685 00:54:12,319 --> 00:54:17,359 anticipate it to. So thank you. We'll take that information back and we will 686 00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:20,800 start to bring another report back to this council about some of our 687 00:54:18,559 --> 00:54:27,559 recommendations on how to proceed. >> Thank you. A good good discussion anyway 688 00:54:23,839 --> 00:54:27,559 and we'll move on. 689 00:54:29,119 --> 00:54:36,119 Okay. So, we go to 4.2. Community services and clerks. 690 00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:45,200 » You wouldn't mind. Backyard urban hens end of pilot program. 691 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:49,920 » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, everybody's favorite subject here on this council is 692 00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:54,720 uh is our backyard chickens. Um, so the pilot project did come to an 693 00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:59,599 end and you'll see in in the report um I've given a little bit of information 694 00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:05,119 on how how the pilot project went. It I I wouldn't really call it successful. We 695 00:55:01,839 --> 00:55:09,280 only had the two applications. Um, and it was certainly a learning curve for 696 00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:12,640 for our bylaw enforcement officer too. A little bit of extra time on the first 697 00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:17,040 one. Lots of paperwork to go over just to ensure that everything was in place. 698 00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:20,079 Um, and then the second application, as you can see, it hasn't been finalized 699 00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:24,160 yet. There hasn't been a final inspection and the payment has not been 700 00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:30,160 received for it. So, again, I wouldn't really think that it's a very successful 701 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:36,079 program that we that we did run. Um, so I've given some options on how to 702 00:55:32,720 --> 00:55:41,599 move forward with with this program. And I think that one thing to um to really 703 00:55:39,359 --> 00:55:46,880 keep in mind is the importance of having the the bylaw whether we move forward 704 00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:50,640 with a licensing program, feebased, non-feebased, however that looks. I do 705 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:55,280 believe that it is very critical that we have the bylaw at least in place because 706 00:55:52,400 --> 00:56:00,000 that gives parameters for our bylaw officer when a complaint is received 707 00:55:56,960 --> 00:56:05,280 that he has he or she at the time um has something to go on where we did not have 708 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:08,880 anything in the past. Um this year we did receive one complaint and the 709 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:12,960 chickens were getting out and jumping on the neighbor's vehicle scratching the 710 00:56:10,319 --> 00:56:17,280 vehicle. So we [laughter] that actually did happen. So um our 711 00:56:16,563 --> 00:56:23,839 [gasps] our officer was able to use the bylaw 712 00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:27,359 and then also um have that owner of the chickens who didn't know about the 713 00:56:25,599 --> 00:56:32,240 program. They they were very good with it. they they came in and they worked 714 00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:37,680 with the the officer um to start working on the appropriate steps. So the options 715 00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:43,920 that I have uh given option one being implementation of a permanent program um 716 00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:49,839 with a licensing increase um as you'll see are our cost uh certainly outweighs 717 00:56:47,359 --> 00:56:55,920 the revenue that we are receiving in even with an increased cost uh to $300 718 00:56:52,480 --> 00:57:00,720 with a $100 annual renewal. Um again it just establishes the parameters that 719 00:56:57,599 --> 00:57:06,559 we're setting for um for the setbacks for the coups itself. How many how many 720 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:11,839 hens can be kept uh no roosters so it's you know not we're not disturbing our 721 00:57:08,079 --> 00:57:16,240 neighbors. Um and then also it it allows for food security, educational 722 00:57:14,319 --> 00:57:21,200 opportunity, waste reduction, some mental health benefits and pest/insect 723 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:26,640 control which was uh primarily the reason that we we implemented this pilot 724 00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:30,880 pro program. in the beginning. Uh, as you'll see with each option too, 725 00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:34,160 there is some some negatives that could could potentially come with it. We're 726 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:39,440 not saying that they they will, but certainly they could um increase a 727 00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:43,760 number of them could be problematic. Uh, we've seen and it's been going through 728 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:47,920 the news, the the bird flu, the aven flu, uh, it could happen. Again, not 729 00:57:46,319 --> 00:57:53,760 saying that it it will, but again, there's always cons there there is pros. 730 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:58,160 Um, second option would be just to not proceed with the program or the bylaw. 731 00:57:56,160 --> 00:58:01,680 Um, [clears throat] this one again though that would go back to what we had 732 00:57:59,839 --> 00:58:06,720 a couple years ago where our bylaw enforcement officer if he were to get a 733 00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:12,240 call he he or she um would have nothing to go on without a a proper bylaw in 734 00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:19,119 place. And then the option three would be to allow the hens. Um so we would 735 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:23,520 still implement the bylaw without the licensing requirements. Uh some of the 736 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:29,200 challenges with the without having the licensing requirements. Um it it would 737 00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:34,000 eliminate the database on how many coups we do have within the municipality. Um, 738 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:39,599 if you know, heaven forbid, there were to be some form of an outbreak of the of 739 00:58:36,640 --> 00:58:45,680 the bird flu, we would not know where these coups are located. Again, is 740 00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:49,359 that going to happen? I don't know. Um, it would in potentially increase the 741 00:58:47,599 --> 00:58:56,319 bylaws, um, permits us, we could have concerns 742 00:58:53,119 --> 00:59:00,880 of animal welfare, um, public nuisance, noise, odor, increased number of 743 00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:05,040 predators, public health risks. Um, again, each option has their pros and 744 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:08,960 their cons. So, with the summary and recommendation, 745 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:12,640 it is recommended that we implement a permanent bylaw to establish the 746 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:18,079 parameters for raising our backyard hens in the urban areas uh with an initial 747 00:59:15,119 --> 00:59:23,359 fee of $300 and an inspection fee of $100. Uh, taking a look, I also linked 748 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:26,240 our um we do have a kennel licensing program that we've had within the 749 00:59:24,799 --> 00:59:30,400 municipality. I'm not sure how long it's been placed in place. certainly longer 750 00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:36,559 than I've been with West Elgen. So, it is a comparable program and we don't 751 00:59:33,839 --> 00:59:40,960 have a lot a lot of it uh people that have the kennel licensing, but they are 752 00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:44,240 very diligent on every year making sure their inspection is done, making sure 753 00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:49,760 they're up to whatever codes need to be in place. Um, so with that being said, I 754 00:59:48,319 --> 00:59:54,960 am certainly open up to further discussion. Councelor Stithm. Well, 755 00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:59,280 well, I think [laughter] >> you blame it on me. 756 00:59:56,319 --> 01:00:02,880 » I think the price of $300 is extortionate. 757 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:06,960 » I think that's that's crazy. No one's You know what's going to happen? If you 758 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:11,280 charge people $300, they're just not going to do it. I mean, 759 01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:16,000 they're already not doing it. >> So, like that's never going to happen. 760 01:00:13,359 --> 01:00:22,880 » To understand some of the people that are are not standing up for anyone but 761 01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:26,640 knowing something about chickens. Um you some people only keep them six and seven 762 01:00:24,799 --> 01:00:31,520 weeks and they're gone for the rest of the year because they're doing meat 763 01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:37,440 birds for their family. And and so you're going to pay $300 for a license 764 01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:42,079 to keep chickens for six to seven weeks. That that doesn't make any sense to me. 765 01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:45,920 » Even for eggs. I mean, you pay 300 bucks a year or sorry 100 bucks a year, $300 766 01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:52,319 the first time. Even if you're just getting eggs, $300 buys a lot of eggs. I 767 01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:54,799 I think that those costs are just >> and no one's going to pay them. They're 768 01:00:53,839 --> 01:01:00,559 just going to do it anyways. >> Yes. To be fair, and I do some in front 769 01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:06,799 of me. Um other municipalities, some don't have a fee. Some range anywhere 770 01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:11,839 from I've got like $50 up to $400 for the initial permits. Some have a annual 771 01:01:09,359 --> 01:01:18,240 fee, some do not. So there is there's really no set parameters on what 772 01:01:15,119 --> 01:01:23,920 municipalities are doing. Um, South for instance, our close neighbors, they have 773 01:01:20,319 --> 01:01:29,920 a $150 licensing fee for R1 properties. Um, Chadam Kent has a $400 initial fee 774 01:01:26,799 --> 01:01:34,240 with $125 for renewal fee. So, again, big difference on different 775 01:01:31,599 --> 01:01:37,440 municipalities on on what they're doing. So, 776 01:01:34,799 --> 01:01:41,680 » and as regards the bird flu, unless they have a license and or you go around 777 01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:47,599 knocking at everyone's door and looking in their backyard, you have no idea 778 01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:52,640 because we got two there's probably 200 people got got chickens right now this 779 01:01:49,839 --> 01:01:58,000 minute and we got two licenses. Is that where we send the official people 780 01:01:55,119 --> 01:02:01,920 because of bird flu? It it it doesn't tell us one thing, 781 01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:06,720 » right? and bringing up the bird fluid. That's just I'm giving you all these 782 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:09,680 » No, no, I realize that. I realize that you you do that and you know and you're 783 01:02:08,559 --> 01:02:14,160 right doing that, >> but I was just picking holes in it 784 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:17,880 because >> they won't do that. 785 01:02:18,400 --> 01:02:21,920 » Yes. Councelor Sus, >> I just just wanted to for you, Mr. 786 01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:26,000 Mayor, I just want to say a lot of our constituents are are struggling. They're 787 01:02:24,079 --> 01:02:30,079 struggling to get by and they they they're struggling to put food on their 788 01:02:27,839 --> 01:02:33,119 tables. So, they they're doing these chickens and they're trying to get 789 01:02:31,599 --> 01:02:39,280 trying to get ahead of the game a little bit and then just this $300 is it's it's 790 01:02:35,839 --> 01:02:45,119 a lot of money for families. And I I I I like option three. I think creating a 791 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:51,359 bylaw without licensing requirements may help. Personally, I know two or 792 01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:56,400 three families that have chickens, they're not in favor of this. Um they're 793 01:02:54,079 --> 01:02:59,520 they express their frustrations. I'm not going to name any name. They're they're 794 01:02:58,079 --> 01:03:02,559 not going to they're not going to pay it. They're just going to go about 795 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:06,319 they're going to be breaking the rules and they're just going to and it's it's 796 01:03:04,799 --> 01:03:09,280 and if the flu happens and we're going to be tracking down where is it coming 797 01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:11,920 from and it's it's not going to solve anything. 798 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:17,599 » Thank you. >> Thank you. 799 01:03:14,799 --> 01:03:23,039 » Can I would I would suggest that the aven flu is something that happens in in 800 01:03:19,839 --> 01:03:25,599 large um large facilities. You know, realistically, when you're talking about 801 01:03:24,240 --> 01:03:29,359 chicken calls and that kind of thing, it happens in in industrial scale 802 01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:33,760 facilities where they're calling hundreds of birds. It's not in backyard 803 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:39,280 flocks where you have six chickens. I mean, it's it's silly to even suggest 804 01:03:35,359 --> 01:03:42,160 that. Um, to Councelor Seuss's point, you know, if if we're charging 300 805 01:03:40,799 --> 01:03:44,400 bucks, no, no one's going to pay that. They're just going to do it anyway. I 806 01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,599 mean, they're already doing it anyways, and most of them aren't paying the the 807 01:03:45,839 --> 01:03:53,039 small fees that we already have. At least with a bylaw framework in place, 808 01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:55,200 if there is a comp I mean, Madam clerk, maybe you can tell me how many 809 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:57,680 complaints there were in the last year. I think you said two. 810 01:03:57,200 --> 01:04:02,640 » One >> one complaint 811 01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:07,119 » in 365 days. So, you know, we're not really 812 01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:12,160 at least if we have the if we have the bylaws in place, it allows our bylaw 813 01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:16,559 officers to work within a framework. You know, realistically, 814 01:04:14,319 --> 01:04:20,240 it's not costing us a ton of money. We have we have families that are, you 815 01:04:18,400 --> 01:04:26,079 know, trying to put eggs on the table for their kids, you know, like I I just 816 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:30,720 I feel like this is this is much to do about nothing. Honestly, it 817 01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:35,119 » Yes, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So, council, um we 818 01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:37,680 hear your concerns and we also understand them as well. I just would 819 01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,799 like you to understand that the recommendation was before you because we 820 01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:46,480 just wanted to make sure cost recovery was in place. um if there is a licensing 821 01:04:43,520 --> 01:04:50,400 program then right now the cost to license is borne on the by the 822 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:55,839 municipality um that cost you know the ease of doing 823 01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:59,200 it more frequently may bring it down. We certainly respect council's concerns 824 01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:02,559 that they have over the cost but I just want to make sure the understanding is 825 01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:06,720 that the recommendation was there due to the fact that we wanted to make sure 826 01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:11,520 cost recovery was in place. I understand 100% and you know it based on the small 827 01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:14,559 amount of people $300 makes sense. That probably is what it costs us to go out 828 01:05:13,039 --> 01:05:18,880 and and license all these individual properties. But the reality of it is 829 01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:22,799 nobody's going to pay that and we're just going to have people doing it 830 01:05:19,839 --> 01:05:26,000 anyways. So I'll leave it there. That's all I have 831 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:31,200 to say about it. Thanks. >> Yes. Incident Denny. 832 01:05:28,480 --> 01:05:35,839 » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Uh is there a formula for cost recovery based solely 833 01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:39,079 on fines? not licensing. 834 01:05:39,440 --> 01:05:45,280 » Uh certainly that would be something we'd have to look into and go through 835 01:05:42,880 --> 01:05:50,079 the fines individually. Uh they are attached to the like there 836 01:05:47,520 --> 01:05:53,920 is they are included in the bylaw but certainly that's something that we could 837 01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:57,039 look into. I might sort of add to that and I'm 838 01:05:55,680 --> 01:06:02,319 wondering sorry Mr. Mayor. >> No sure. 839 01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:07,359 » Uh um there are fines for violations of the bylaw. Um certainly as all of our 840 01:06:04,799 --> 01:06:11,599 bylaws are and our community is is a complaint driven meaning we do not 841 01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:16,400 actively drive around. We have 10 hours of bylaw a week. We don't actively drive 842 01:06:14,079 --> 01:06:21,440 around and look for those who are contravening any of our bylaws. So if 843 01:06:18,880 --> 01:06:25,920 there were to be a complaint and somebody did not come into compliance 844 01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:30,079 then certainly that fee would help to offset. I don't we would have to do a 845 01:06:28,720 --> 01:06:34,480 little more research and data to understand is it completely offset. 846 01:06:32,240 --> 01:06:38,960 Typically our bylaw officer doesn't just issue fines on the first occurrence. 847 01:06:37,359 --> 01:06:43,920 They tend to try to work with community members to bring them into compliance. 848 01:06:41,119 --> 01:06:48,880 fines tend to be sort of the last effort when communities choose or members 849 01:06:46,079 --> 01:06:53,760 choose to not meet the the bylaw. So there is a lot of time I guess I'm 850 01:06:50,319 --> 01:06:58,559 saying upfront and so that fine I think is more as a deterrent to doing 851 01:06:55,680 --> 01:07:02,559 something but it doesn't really cover the entire cost when we're looking at 852 01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:05,720 the repetitive times bylaw officer would go out 853 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:14,160 anything further [clears throat and cough] 854 01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:19,200 I look at it personally and I think option three is the one that we can 855 01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:24,240 manage And I think that there'll be a way that 856 01:07:21,119 --> 01:07:30,160 we could recoup some money from our bylaw officer if he has to keep going 857 01:07:26,559 --> 01:07:33,520 out in one way, shape or form. I don't think we're number one is going 858 01:07:31,920 --> 01:07:39,119 to work. But [clears throat] anybody else with suggestions, 859 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:43,760 I I think if we start seeing a ton of a ton of infractions and a ton of fines, 860 01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:47,599 maybe we relook at it. But given where we're at right now with one complaint 861 01:07:45,599 --> 01:07:52,400 over the last year, I I think we could probably just leave this one alone. But 862 01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:55,920 » yes, Council Susa. >> Yes. Option option three creates more 863 01:07:54,319 --> 01:08:00,319 transparency. More people will be willing to talk about it, come forward, 864 01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:05,359 and we can work together as a community, provide some rules, and like you said, 865 01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:09,039 like that the bylaw officer goes out, gives a warning, and they, hey, I didn't 866 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:14,400 know that. And they get educate educated on the spot, and away we go. I think 867 01:08:12,319 --> 01:08:19,279 it's more communitydriven. Thank you. 868 01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:24,040 » Do I have a motion to amend to include option three instead of option one? 869 01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:32,480 » If I might sort of at this time um when you're looking at to amend 870 01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:35,359 this committee is get sort of giving direction. We're here to have a 871 01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:40,640 conversation. Council will make the decision ultimately on the report. So 872 01:08:37,839 --> 01:08:45,440 this report will go to council on the 22nd, but it maybe gives some direction 873 01:08:43,199 --> 01:08:49,279 for staff to look at the recommendations that are provided um to move this 874 01:08:47,679 --> 01:08:54,799 forward. And the reason I say that council is sometimes we as staff may 875 01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:59,520 still stand on our recommendation because we're providing you advice. You 876 01:08:56,799 --> 01:09:02,880 as council then accept that advice, but then you take in your concerns that 877 01:09:01,279 --> 01:09:07,279 you're hearing from the community and then you would make amendments then and 878 01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:11,440 the decision. But I I really want to make sure that that's clearly understood 879 01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:14,319 that staff at times it may not be this report, but at times may still have to 880 01:09:13,040 --> 01:09:19,120 stand on the recommendation they're providing you because that's the advice 881 01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:23,279 and what the data says. Council then has to accept that you would accept that. 882 01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:27,440 And I mean accept it as in you read what we deliver you, not accept as in you 883 01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:31,759 agree with us and then you make your decisions that way. So I just before we 884 01:09:29,600 --> 01:09:35,839 make a motion to go forward, I I just want to make sure there's some clarity 885 01:09:33,759 --> 01:09:41,600 sort of around that and that this really is just a motion to proceed to council 886 01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:45,839 with um I it'd almost say for for staff to look 887 01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:51,159 at the suggested amendments >> and our big decision comes on the 22nd. 888 01:09:48,159 --> 01:09:51,159 » Yeah. 889 01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:02,760 Just going to wait for a minute for a recommendation. 890 01:10:10,480 --> 01:10:15,600 » Sure. Yeah. >> After this. 891 01:10:12,239 --> 01:10:19,840 » Yeah, we can do that. So, as a as an amended motion, I have 892 01:10:17,679 --> 01:10:23,280 that West Elgen C committee of the whole hereby receives the report from Terry 893 01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:28,159 Toschuk, manager of community services clerk, and that council direct staff to 894 01:10:26,080 --> 01:10:33,360 look at the suggested amendments to option three to be approved at the 895 01:10:31,040 --> 01:10:40,080 regular meeting of council on January 22nd, 2026. 896 01:10:36,159 --> 01:10:48,080 » Move, please. Councelor Susa, seconded, councelor Staithm. 897 01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:52,600 All in favor? That's carried. Thank you. I'm going to call for a 5 minutes break. 898 01:10:58,880 --> 01:11:07,440 Okay, we'll start back at the meeting again and we go to 4.3. Chief 899 01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:13,120 Administration Officer, a verbal discussion. Roma delegations. 900 01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:18,080 » Thank you, Mr. Mayor. uh council as you've been seeing some uh emails go 901 01:11:15,120 --> 01:11:23,360 into your inbox. I had put in several delegation requests at uh after 902 01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:26,880 council's discussion uh late last year uh to some of the concerns and we have 903 01:11:24,880 --> 01:11:30,960 heard back from the various ministries. So I wanted just to bring this here 904 01:11:28,880 --> 01:11:35,280 because as I'm subdrafting some of those documents for you to to support you in 905 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:39,840 your discussion and your delegation I just want to make sure that I'm hitting 906 01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:43,920 some key points of your concerns at that time. So council, one of the delegations 907 01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:48,880 we have is with the associate minister for um mental health and addiction 908 01:11:47,199 --> 01:11:53,120 services. At the time I heard from last year, you did have some concerns around 909 01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:58,320 um sort of mental oop 910 01:11:55,360 --> 01:12:03,360 or my pull it closed. >> Um for you had some concerns around 911 01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:06,880 rural access to mental health support and particularly for mental health 912 01:12:05,040 --> 01:12:10,880 services and addictions. And so maybe I'd like to hear from council as to are 913 01:12:09,600 --> 01:12:15,120 there any key points that you're wanting to make sure that we're putting into 914 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:20,719 this delegation request. Uh I have reached out to Andy Croker at uh West 915 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:24,000 Elgen Community Health Center. He will be joining us in the delegation. So I've 916 01:12:22,719 --> 01:12:27,360 also asked him like what are the concerns or issues that the health 917 01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:30,880 center is seeing and some programs or needs that they would like to see in 918 01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:35,800 place. But just an opportunity to hear from council on that issue and topic. 919 01:12:37,360 --> 01:12:43,520 Yes, Councelor Denny, please. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Um, and Robin, 920 01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:48,560 thank you for that. I'm really, really glad to hear that Andy will be part of 921 01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:53,280 this delegation as a small community. Um, it's it's incredibly difficult for 922 01:12:50,960 --> 01:12:57,280 us to uh to find the resources to support those who need help. And the 923 01:12:55,679 --> 01:13:00,800 last thing I would want to see is duplication of services here in West 924 01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:05,920 Elgen. And if West Elgen Community Health Center is striving to uh take 925 01:13:04,000 --> 01:13:10,159 care of all of those those support services, I know that funding is a big 926 01:13:08,239 --> 01:13:14,560 part of it that what we should be doing is certainly supporting them and showing 927 01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:17,920 them that we have their back and advocating with West Elvin Community 928 01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,880 Health Center to make sure that they have the funding that they need to 929 01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:26,400 provide the services in our community as opposed to uh just uh trying to take it 930 01:13:24,480 --> 01:13:30,560 on ourselves. So, as long as I think that, you know, 931 01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:33,600 that's, you know, that we are pushing to make sure that the province understands 932 01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:36,560 how important West Elen Community Health Center and their services are, that's 933 01:13:35,120 --> 01:13:42,920 certainly the direction I think that we should be advocating in. 934 01:13:39,440 --> 01:13:42,920 » Yeah. Thank you, 935 01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:50,159 Mr. Susa. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I agree with Bill. 936 01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:55,520 Um, also just I remember that event we had at the community center and one of 937 01:13:53,199 --> 01:13:59,600 the topics was um trying to get specialized doctors in our community to 938 01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:04,960 stay within our community. What are the incentives to have them to remain in our 939 01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:08,560 community and service our constituents? It's hard to keep those specialized 940 01:14:06,480 --> 01:14:13,199 doctors here. Thank you. 941 01:14:11,600 --> 01:14:18,560 It's hard to keep them here because we haven't got enough money to to encourage 942 01:14:15,600 --> 01:14:23,520 them to stay here and that's one of the big problems. Deputy Mayor Talier, 943 01:14:22,159 --> 01:14:27,520 » thank you through the chair and further than that for councelor Susie. Yeah, if 944 01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:31,679 you work at the health center, you are um not you're doing it for the money 945 01:14:29,840 --> 01:14:35,520 obviously for a vocation and to support your family, but also 946 01:14:34,159 --> 01:14:38,960 you are doing it for the love of what you do. you are if you go into a 947 01:14:37,120 --> 01:14:47,120 hospital or clinical setting other than a CHC within Ontario, you are making a 948 01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:53,520 lot more um sometimes 30% more uh or higher in a different setting. So um 949 01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:59,520 they are in our communities to help us for the love of the community as well. 950 01:14:55,920 --> 01:15:03,840 Um because if they worked, like I said, in hospital clinical setting, they'd be 951 01:15:02,320 --> 01:15:08,000 much better in their bank accounts and helping out their families more. Um I 952 01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:16,400 think attracting people is a big thing. Attracting to our area what we have um 953 01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:20,960 space um the space within the uh CHC is limited at times and they're kind of 954 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:26,480 doing a Jenga of Exactly. Is it Jenga? I don't know. Whatever. Shuffle of uh 955 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:33,679 space to uh accommodate people and time. They're only open certain amount of 956 01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:40,000 times too. Um, I'd like to maybe look at like the 957 01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:44,080 youth. Um, I sat on the youth task team and that was a few years ago and saw at 958 01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:48,880 the end of when they were really really meeting. Um, they're struggling. They 959 01:15:47,040 --> 01:15:53,920 they know they may never own a home. They may never own a car. how hard it is 960 01:15:51,040 --> 01:16:01,280 to get to own a car if you don't have a supportive family or the monies or the 961 01:15:56,000 --> 01:16:05,679 means to get to um you know get to a driver center to 962 01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:10,400 even go through the process of the graduate related system. They all see a 963 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:13,600 little hope and there weren't very many that were very hopeful and these kids 964 01:16:12,239 --> 01:16:19,120 came from all different demographics so it wasn't a demographic thing. Um, so 965 01:16:16,239 --> 01:16:24,159 yeah, just helping with the youth more, thinking more like grade six and up. Um, 966 01:16:22,719 --> 01:16:27,360 when they're starting to really really have to make decisions about their lives 967 01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:31,280 and what it looks like and when there aren't uh they're realizing at that 968 01:16:29,199 --> 01:16:34,880 point that there's not a lot um that they can control it sometimes that it's 969 01:16:32,880 --> 01:16:38,800 all out or they really get down and really their mental health suffers. So 970 01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:42,800 maybe a more youth perspective and bringing someone in and funding for 971 01:16:41,199 --> 01:16:49,440 CHC's um in the future from Ontario to help 972 01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:56,719 them uh look at that. Um, [clears throat] I do have the the 973 01:16:52,880 --> 01:17:00,760 ranges of ages in West Elgen in in numbers if that's any help 974 01:17:00,800 --> 01:17:09,360 like over 65s, you know, very I have that because I 975 01:17:06,159 --> 01:17:14,960 read it out and I still got the paper so I could bring that or bring it to you 976 01:17:12,719 --> 01:17:18,800 and and and if it's any good, we can use those figures because they're still 977 01:17:17,199 --> 01:17:21,800 they're still the right figures. Councelor 978 01:17:23,679 --> 01:17:30,560 Sathan. >> Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and through you. I 979 01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:36,159 think I'm very pleased that we have the ability to go in and and have a 980 01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:40,000 delegation with with the honorable VJ uh I can't pronounce that last name. I'm so 981 01:17:38,080 --> 01:17:44,239 sorry. Uh >> it's our associate minister of health 982 01:17:42,159 --> 01:17:47,760 and his focus and portfolio is on mental health and addiction services. 983 01:17:46,239 --> 01:17:52,239 » Right. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um 984 01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:56,719 Thank you, Madam CEO. So, I I I think this is really important. I I come at 985 01:17:53,840 --> 01:18:00,719 this from I have young children. They are young enough that they have not had 986 01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:04,880 any, you know, sort of issues with addiction 987 01:18:03,280 --> 01:18:08,719 or mental health. But I know that those days, one day, they're going to be 988 01:18:06,480 --> 01:18:14,159 exposed to that. And that terrifies me. It terrifies me as a father. And I want 989 01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:18,719 to make sure that we have in our community the support networks that are 990 01:18:16,159 --> 01:18:22,640 available. uh should that become and and again I I want to I want to believe that 991 01:18:20,320 --> 01:18:26,320 it never will and I hope I hope to God that it never does. 992 01:18:24,640 --> 01:18:30,960 But right now I can say that when we're looking at our our high school uh and we 993 01:18:28,719 --> 01:18:33,679 have overdoses at the local high school uh it is an issue and it is an issue in 994 01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:38,880 our community and it's something that we have to confront and the the resources 995 01:18:37,120 --> 01:18:45,679 are just not here. They're not here. They're not available. uh and if we can 996 01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:50,480 have an impact with the province and are able to express the need for support, I 997 01:18:48,080 --> 01:18:56,560 think that would go a long ways. And even if we had, you know, some sort of 998 01:18:53,520 --> 01:19:00,080 um assistance with the the local health center to provide those support 999 01:18:58,400 --> 01:19:03,440 networks, addiction is a terrible thing and it 1000 01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:06,640 affects everybody and it affects everybody in different ways. And I've 1001 01:19:04,640 --> 01:19:09,920 seen it throughout the community. And I know especially around here with with 1002 01:19:08,480 --> 01:19:13,600 youth, they don't have anything to do. It's not the same as uh being in a city 1003 01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:17,360 where they can they can go and play sports. So, I mean, they can play sports 1004 01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:22,239 at the arena, sure, but you know, there are not the the outlets that there are 1005 01:19:20,000 --> 01:19:26,320 in a city. And I think that that means that we need to be that much more v 1006 01:19:23,920 --> 01:19:28,080 vigilant in our community to provide those those support networks. 1007 01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:33,280 » I agree. >> I feel strongly about it. So, thank you. 1008 01:19:30,159 --> 01:19:37,840 » That and the time for health for help is when they're young, too. If we can, you 1009 01:19:36,159 --> 01:19:42,960 know, if you can sort of nip it in the bud before they go too far, it's 1010 01:19:40,719 --> 01:19:48,080 obviously going to be easier to cure. So we should start at the beginning. 1011 01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:51,679 » Absolutely. Absolutely. >> Yes. Deputy May I tell you? 1012 01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:58,000 » Thank you the chair. So we tried to years ago, this is kind of going on this 1013 01:19:54,400 --> 01:20:04,719 I'll get there. Um having a youth group in our area and uh myself and Greg 1014 01:20:02,239 --> 01:20:08,320 Simpson were leading that in the area and um 1015 01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:11,360 we had all the kids that are already going in the right direction show up, 1016 01:20:09,679 --> 01:20:16,640 not the ones that were having issues. and it was difficult but a lot of them 1017 01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:20,800 we redirected to services that we could or or made you know a connection with 1018 01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:26,560 their their family or their grandparents or whatever to redirect them. So maybe 1019 01:20:23,360 --> 01:20:30,800 looking at um resources of how to like you're saying 1020 01:20:28,480 --> 01:20:35,600 catch those kids earlier on that they would come to the resources that 1021 01:20:33,679 --> 01:20:39,679 councelor Stathithm was referring to in the area. I also totally an aside, but 1022 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:44,880 it's bothered me since the OP officer was here. His stats telling us there are 1023 01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:50,960 no opioid deaths. I'm sorry I'm shaking. Make me so angry. He is incorrect. I was 1024 01:20:48,400 --> 01:20:56,400 at one we had in the area actually on this road. I the 1025 01:20:54,480 --> 01:21:01,679 lockone has been given to so many people in this area recently. 1026 01:20:58,960 --> 01:21:04,960 It it angers me. And it angers me cuz they want to just throw it under the rug 1027 01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:08,480 that it doesn't happen. And it does happen. Talk to the teachers in the 1028 01:21:06,719 --> 01:21:12,159 community. Talk to the educators in the community that aren't just teachers that 1029 01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:17,360 are administrated in this community. The parents, the clergy, the health center, 1030 01:21:15,199 --> 01:21:20,640 anybody. It is happening. And it's not just youth as well. It's seniors and 1031 01:21:19,600 --> 01:21:21,920 older people. >> Yeah. 1032 01:21:20,960 --> 01:21:27,440 » And it's >> Yeah, we know each 1033 01:21:24,719 --> 01:21:32,960 and that was so not a happy camper. Um cuz saying that you have to have an OP, 1034 01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:36,880 an ambulance, whatever on they were all there for all of those. We've all We all 1035 01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:41,120 drove by. We know. We witnessed it all. And saying that it's not happening is 1036 01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:43,520 just not okay. Not okay to make your stats look like 1037 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,880 » That's right. >> what you want them to look like. That's 1038 01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:52,199 » I think everybody in this room realizes that it's happening and it's happening 1039 01:21:48,800 --> 01:21:52,199 around us. 1040 01:21:58,719 --> 01:22:03,760 » I'm glad that we have the opportunity to have the delegation. I think it's going 1041 01:22:02,560 --> 01:22:10,000 to be I think it's going to be great. I'm looking forward to being there. Um, 1042 01:22:06,719 --> 01:22:12,480 councelor Susa, you're going or? >> Yes. 1043 01:22:10,639 --> 01:22:15,120 » Perfect. So, there'll be at least the the three of us. Richard, you're 1044 01:22:13,840 --> 01:22:17,360 attending as well, I believe. >> Pardon? 1045 01:22:15,679 --> 01:22:20,080 » You're you're attending as well, Roma. >> Mhm. 1046 01:22:17,679 --> 01:22:24,480 » Yeah. I was going to say likewise. >> So, council, I have one more u we have 1047 01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:27,520 one more de well I have a couple listed, but one more delegation that has been 1048 01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:30,719 confirmed is with the minister uh ministry of rural affairs. I confirmed 1049 01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:35,760 it's with the parliamentary assistant, Steve Pinino, who is your MPP. uh 1050 01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:40,000 neighboring MPP. I know Steve is a counselor from Chadam Kent. Um last year 1051 01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:44,800 we also spoke with parliamentary assistant uh Bob [clears throat] he's 1052 01:22:44,159 --> 01:22:48,639 from Sarnia. >> Yeah. 1053 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:51,520 » Bailey. Thank you very much. Uh council my recommendation though I'm willing to 1054 01:22:50,159 --> 01:22:55,920 want to listen here. Council's concerned. Uh last year at AMO councelor 1055 01:22:53,840 --> 01:23:02,719 Stithm took a delegation and we spoke to both the minister of um agriculture. 1056 01:23:01,280 --> 01:23:07,040 It's not rural affairs anymore. our agriculture and farm and then the the 1057 01:23:05,120 --> 01:23:13,600 parliamentary assistant for rural affairs. And we did present concerns of 1058 01:23:10,320 --> 01:23:17,440 our small uh farming industry and making sure that they understood from a rural 1059 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:22,480 perspective the concerns of having access to land, having access to the 1060 01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:29,120 infrastructure that can support and expand trade. uh having access to or 1061 01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:33,040 further developing um education programs so that there is a connection to those 1062 01:23:31,600 --> 01:23:37,920 learning and those who are already producing. And then we had another one. 1063 01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:42,800 » Yeah. >> At the end of our conversation, we 1064 01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:48,560 councelor Stathithm did invite both the minister of from OMFA and parliamentary 1065 01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:53,360 assistant to please come to West Elgen. And so my concept this is to return with 1066 01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:58,320 that similar conversation that we already have put forward but instead of 1067 01:23:55,920 --> 01:24:04,800 just it being a general you should come visit us have an actual invitation to 1068 01:24:01,040 --> 01:24:07,520 extend to them. So my op my thought was to be working with economic development. 1069 01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:14,159 We've already had a bit of this conversation and set a date um of which 1070 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:19,920 we would do a farm tour and invite our ministers um Rob Black, our neighboring 1071 01:24:17,920 --> 01:24:26,320 ministers to join us. The minister of rural affairs, minister um of Mafa who 1072 01:24:22,880 --> 01:24:30,960 is Mr. Lonardi from Leington. um if we had that date ready as opposed to just 1073 01:24:28,480 --> 01:24:34,480 making it a generalized offer, making sure we have a set date ready and then 1074 01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:38,080 working with economic development to further de develop and build out what 1075 01:24:36,239 --> 01:24:43,920 that agricultural small farm agricultural tour would look like, 1076 01:24:41,840 --> 01:24:46,719 but willing to hear from council any concerns that they want to make sure. 1077 01:24:45,520 --> 01:24:50,560 And remember, when we do go to delegations, they do recommend we keep 1078 01:24:48,480 --> 01:24:54,480 it short to, you know, the maximum of three concerns. 1079 01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:58,000 If you get to you have 15 minutes. So for those who have not been in 21, you 1080 01:24:56,320 --> 01:25:03,040 have a 15-minute conversation and they knock on the door at 10 minutes. So 1081 01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:08,560 » we keep our um we keep our ask and our focus very very very focused um and very 1082 01:25:06,719 --> 01:25:11,920 concise so that we can at least deliver what our askers. 1083 01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:16,320 » I'm just talking around the tables now, but you know, West Elgen is generally 1084 01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,840 agriculture. >> Yeah. 1085 01:25:17,199 --> 01:25:25,760 » And so it's our biggest thing. Okay. So, we're getting more less and less and 1086 01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:30,000 less people in agriculture, although it's still agriculture because 1087 01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:34,159 the farms are getting larger and larger and larger. So, in the finish, we're 1088 01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:41,120 going to finish up with about half a dozen that runs West Elgen. 1089 01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:45,280 And it's it's high time that if you didn't come from a farming community 1090 01:25:42,800 --> 01:25:49,679 where that was your life and soul and your dream, why shouldn't you have the 1091 01:25:47,679 --> 01:25:55,360 opportunity to be able to do that? And you can't do that for the simple reason 1092 01:25:53,199 --> 01:26:00,320 you can't even buy 50 acres anymore. They won't let you se sever and things 1093 01:25:57,679 --> 01:26:04,239 like that. and and so I think it's only fair that people that are not in 1094 01:26:02,639 --> 01:26:09,280 agriculture can get into agriculture or there is a 1095 01:26:06,639 --> 01:26:14,440 way to get into agriculture as at the moment it's absolutely no no 1096 01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:20,800 » yes >> Mr. Mr. Mayor, thank you very much. And 1097 01:26:19,199 --> 01:26:25,120 and this was something that we discussed at AMO and and I think Robin and I at 1098 01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:29,199 that meeting. I think that was successful. I think we did a great job 1099 01:26:26,639 --> 01:26:32,719 in expanding upon those exact, you know, ideas. And and the idea of cooperative 1100 01:26:30,960 --> 01:26:36,159 education programs and procurement streams to support small farms, I think 1101 01:26:34,719 --> 01:26:40,080 is is critical. And it's something that I feel very passionately about coming 1102 01:26:37,679 --> 01:26:46,320 from a, you know, a farming uh background myself. Um 1103 01:26:43,120 --> 01:26:51,120 to to your point, agriculture will not continue on a small scale in 1104 01:26:49,360 --> 01:26:56,239 southwestern Ontario and the bread box of Ontario will not continue 1105 01:26:53,760 --> 01:27:00,159 on a small scale without support. It it's going to disappear. And and I see 1106 01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:03,280 that every day. We are transitioning to larger farms where our transitioning 1107 01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:09,280 outside of the family farm business is becoming corporations. And unless uh we 1108 01:27:07,199 --> 01:27:13,840 put some effort into preserving those small family farms, it's going to slip 1109 01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:17,440 away. And once it's gone, it's gone. And I agree with you 100%. I think and and 1110 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:22,080 this is a good opportunity to expand upon what we said at AMO. And to Robin, 1111 01:27:19,199 --> 01:27:25,360 uh your point, if if we could bring again, we're this is the bread box of 1112 01:27:23,679 --> 01:27:30,239 Ontario. We live in one of the best agricultural 1113 01:27:26,960 --> 01:27:34,000 centers of the province and and to bring some representatives from the province, 1114 01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:38,080 some of the ministers down here, and give them a tour and link that in with 1115 01:27:36,080 --> 01:27:42,400 the economic development committee and and bring it all together as one 1116 01:27:39,920 --> 01:27:47,040 package. I What else could you ask for? Showcase some of the small businesses. 1117 01:27:44,320 --> 01:27:53,840 Showcase the lamb producers, the blueberry farms, showcase our our our 1118 01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:58,000 breweries that are sourcing local local uh products. Showcase what we have here. 1119 01:27:56,480 --> 01:28:03,840 I I I think that we could do a phenomenal job. The wineries, the the 1120 01:28:00,320 --> 01:28:07,600 grape growers, the housecaps, all the different crops, the the carrots, you 1121 01:28:05,760 --> 01:28:10,639 know, we we could do a great job of putting this. 1122 01:28:08,159 --> 01:28:14,639 » Even small farmers can help the grocery bill. Yeah. 1123 01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:17,360 » You do not need 10,000 acres. >> Yeah. 1124 01:28:15,120 --> 01:28:21,120 » To support your family. But what you do need is the ability 1125 01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:23,520 to sell your product. >> That's right. 1126 01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:28,639 » And if we don't have access to these procurement streams and we don't have 1127 01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:32,320 access to um cooperative education programs that allow people to learn 1128 01:28:30,560 --> 01:28:38,560 about agriculture and get into the business, then then we're lost. So I 1129 01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:43,040 think Robin, I agree 100%. I I read your email. I I think it's it's wonderful. I 1130 01:28:40,800 --> 01:28:47,280 think that we should focus on those uh concepts at at Roma and I think we would 1131 01:28:45,920 --> 01:28:50,560 have a strong delegation and hopefully we can get the ministers down here and 1132 01:28:49,040 --> 01:28:55,040 and show them what it is to live in southwestern Ontario specifically in 1133 01:28:52,400 --> 01:29:02,320 West Elgen. Well, I I know my wish. We just a new warden at at the county and 1134 01:28:58,800 --> 01:29:07,040 my wish I only put my wish forward only the other day and that was trying to 1135 01:29:04,639 --> 01:29:12,920 introduce people that wanted to go into farming to get into farming and find a 1136 01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:12,920 way. 1137 01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:19,199 » Yes, councelor Susa. >> Thank you, Mr. Chair. But all very good 1138 01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:26,000 points. I one of my concerns was the the better build home act and then I'm I I'm 1139 01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:28,400 worried about West Elgen Dton like all of our farming and we're going to we're 1140 01:29:27,440 --> 01:29:32,480 going to lose it. They're they're pushing pressure to build more homes. I 1141 01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:36,800 I really want to make a point that we need a balance. Not saying no to 1142 01:29:34,639 --> 01:29:41,120 building homes saying we need a a good balance. We we can't lose our farmlands. 1143 01:29:39,440 --> 01:29:44,239 And if they're pressuring us for better build homes, more homes, we need to we 1144 01:29:43,120 --> 01:29:47,440 need to have a limit. >> We need to say, "Hey, we have to protect 1145 01:29:45,520 --> 01:29:51,360 our farmland. Let's find the right balance. Let's get the small population 1146 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:54,800 growth and let's let's keep it let's keep it real rural like keep our 1147 01:29:53,120 --> 01:29:58,239 community small and and and and growing. So, thank 1148 01:29:58,080 --> 01:30:02,239 you. >> That's right. 1149 01:30:00,639 --> 01:30:06,560 » Yes, deputy may tell you >> through the chair. Maybe a talking point 1150 01:30:03,679 --> 01:30:12,560 would be that tell me if I'm wrong. Um 20 minutes outside of our community is 1151 01:30:09,600 --> 01:30:15,760 University of G RGtown campus that has agricultural 1152 01:30:14,159 --> 01:30:20,480 links. Richtown >> RGtown campus has agricultural links and 1153 01:30:18,080 --> 01:30:23,679 agricultural programming that could be brought into the compass of this 1154 01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:27,440 conversation. It's not far for people from our community to go and be educated 1155 01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:32,400 about agricultural and what that looks like for them. So something maybe just 1156 01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:39,120 an idea for a talking point. Also, are we concentrating on like all farming or 1157 01:30:35,360 --> 01:30:45,760 are we just doing a big talk on like I know it all connects but like mega 1158 01:30:41,679 --> 01:30:50,800 farms, micro farming, macro like are we >> the smaller farmers getting left by the 1159 01:30:48,560 --> 01:30:57,440 larger farmer? That's what literally as I see it. I mean now 5,000 acres isn't 1160 01:30:54,080 --> 01:31:02,320 big anymore, you know, and and all and a lot of the houses that are in between in 1161 01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:07,199 in the country are also going because their big combines won't go around that 1162 01:31:04,320 --> 01:31:10,320 that little acre plot anymore. So all we're getting is like a desert of 1163 01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:15,360 farming. That's what we're going to finish up with. And if anything happens 1164 01:31:12,320 --> 01:31:19,600 to the farming industry really bad and somebody goes broke when he's got 7,000 1165 01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:24,080 acres going to leave great some great gaps in our community. 1166 01:31:22,080 --> 01:31:27,280 » If I might, Mr. Mayor. So last year's direction, our focus was to look at the 1167 01:31:25,760 --> 01:31:31,360 small farmer and it [clears throat] was around the concerns of rural farming and 1168 01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:34,880 small farmer. What we did in our research to understand is actually 60% 1169 01:31:33,360 --> 01:31:39,280 of the farming industry is small farmers. And so to make sure that the 1170 01:31:37,040 --> 01:31:43,760 ministry understands that while we know that there we respect that there is a 1171 01:31:41,600 --> 01:31:48,960 spectrum of farming from the large industrial uh agricultural farms down to 1172 01:31:46,639 --> 01:31:52,719 micro farming. Um but we want to make sure the rural voice is being heard and 1173 01:31:51,040 --> 01:31:56,800 that the voice of the small farmer who may not have the funding behind it for 1174 01:31:54,400 --> 01:32:01,840 the lobby groups is continuously at the table. And so the focus of that then was 1175 01:31:59,440 --> 01:32:07,280 around education providing links between those who are um learning farming and to 1176 01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:11,760 work on actual farms understanding that when procurement is being set up that 1177 01:32:09,440 --> 01:32:15,760 the small farmers being considered so where they're being situated you're not 1178 01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:21,360 having to drive hundreds of kilometers in order to produce your food because in 1179 01:32:18,080 --> 01:32:25,760 order and councelor stith probably knows best on this but in order to sell your 1180 01:32:22,960 --> 01:32:30,080 farm your your wares um even cross proincially you have to be in federally 1181 01:32:27,679 --> 01:32:33,920 regulated facility and so access to those facilities so that when we can 1182 01:32:31,679 --> 01:32:38,080 access interprovincial trade because right now with tariffs that is a concern 1183 01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:41,360 so how do you broaden your base um and then I believe we also said we were 1184 01:32:39,840 --> 01:32:45,040 looking at sort of the land and access to land and so what are those policies 1185 01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:51,040 that we're putting into place to make sure that there is a balance across the 1186 01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:55,440 spectrum of large and small farming >> yeah and I would add to that thank you 1187 01:32:53,040 --> 01:32:59,679 Robin you summed it up perfectly I think when you're looking at uh some of the 1188 01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:05,199 larger larger operations that have thousands of acres. I think that they 1189 01:33:02,159 --> 01:33:09,280 they need our support as well uh in the sense that you know we have to be 1190 01:33:06,480 --> 01:33:13,840 advocating for Canadian agriculture um and Canadian products. However, they 1191 01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:17,520 face different challenges and their the challenges that they face are more on, 1192 01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:23,360 you know, the cost of the cost of production and what they're receiving 1193 01:33:20,159 --> 01:33:26,560 for their outputs and that's dictated on a on a market level and there there's 1194 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:32,080 little that we can do about that. the small farms uh you know under sub 500 1195 01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:36,880 acres you know that are supporting a single family those are the farms that 1196 01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:39,360 really need support and need assistance because those are the farms that are 1197 01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:44,000 disappearing and they're being swallowed up by larger corporations and they're 1198 01:33:41,360 --> 01:33:47,520 that way of life is is going by the wayside 1199 01:33:44,719 --> 01:33:49,280 » the abattoars etc everything went >> well what abbittoars 1200 01:33:48,719 --> 01:33:52,960 » I know >> there's there's there's 1201 01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:56,560 » so it's no encouragement really is it >> yep 1202 01:33:54,239 --> 01:34:02,159 » so yeah no I think I We're on the right track. I I think this is a very um 1203 01:34:00,480 --> 01:34:06,239 it's a great delegation. I think, you know, we we should get somewhere with 1204 01:34:04,719 --> 01:34:09,760 this hopefully and if we can get them down here and get them to tour our 1205 01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:14,800 community, I think they'll understand. >> Yeah, I it would be excellent. 1206 01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:19,600 Yes, deputy. May I tell you, >> just further to that, just thinking uh 1207 01:34:16,880 --> 01:34:25,040 recently it came out that um forgiveness for tuitions for healthcare ECS and such 1208 01:34:22,719 --> 01:34:31,040 came out. I mean, could be a oneliner. Could we have a break for people uh 1209 01:34:28,639 --> 01:34:36,000 young people, old whatever going into an agricultural field um for their tuition 1210 01:34:33,920 --> 01:34:42,600 fees to learn about farming and to connect to that industry? Just an idea 1211 01:34:38,480 --> 01:34:42,600 to have a oneliner within there. 1212 01:34:43,199 --> 01:34:47,840 » So council um I also heard from the ministry of infrastructure. 1213 01:34:46,320 --> 01:34:52,480 Unfortunately, we were not successful with um a meeting with them during Roma, 1214 01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:56,400 though they did extend that we could possibly have a meeting after Roma. Um 1215 01:34:54,960 --> 01:35:01,040 the focus was really around to understand uh the needs for particularly 1216 01:34:59,440 --> 01:35:03,920 around our wastewater and wastewater development. This is kind of counter 1217 01:35:02,800 --> 01:35:07,120 though to what we were just saying because wastewater is needed for the 1218 01:35:05,520 --> 01:35:12,880 expansion and growth of residential homes. Um so we could touch on that one 1219 01:35:10,320 --> 01:35:16,400 later. I as of today heard from actually the solicitor general that if we'd like 1220 01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:22,560 to have a meeting, I haven't confirmed this yet. Um we have a possibility for a 1221 01:35:19,440 --> 01:35:26,400 meeting on Tuesday morning, but we're I have to see if that's fine. uh what I 1222 01:35:24,719 --> 01:35:35,120 had put in what my your concerns from this council were around sort of the 1223 01:35:29,440 --> 01:35:38,960 repeat offenders and um sort of limitations on being able to address 1224 01:35:37,040 --> 01:35:43,600 repeat offenders and repeat offenders in our community in rural communities. So 1225 01:35:41,040 --> 01:35:47,679 if this council would like me to also reach out and have a conversation or set 1226 01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:51,920 up a meeting to have a conversation at Roma with the solicitor uh it would be 1227 01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:55,040 the deputy parliamentary assistant to the solicitor general. I can certainly 1228 01:35:53,440 --> 01:35:59,120 do that though like to hear some expansion of thought on that from from 1229 01:35:57,520 --> 01:36:04,880 council. Last year your concerns were around 1230 01:36:01,679 --> 01:36:11,000 repeat offenders within our communities and the ability for rural communities to 1231 01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:11,000 address those concerns. 1232 01:36:11,280 --> 01:36:16,920 We can go with the two that we have or we can I can 1233 01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:22,719 repeat offenders is something that's happening everywhere. 1234 01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:27,679 » It is. Yes, >> absolutely everywhere. 1235 01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:31,440 And uh it's it's cause it causes a whole bunch of problems 1236 01:36:30,080 --> 01:36:36,120 because a lot of them don't learn their lesson. They just come out and do it 1237 01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,120 again. 1238 01:36:38,800 --> 01:36:44,239 So, one of the concerns, Mr. Mayor, when you're looking at repeat offenders and 1239 01:36:41,920 --> 01:36:51,119 knowing that it's a sort of a nationwide issue, um, as I structured all of the um 1240 01:36:49,040 --> 01:36:56,960 requests for delegations, it was always about presenting the rural voice. So the 1241 01:36:54,719 --> 01:37:01,520 rule voice concern of having shared services of OP across the county means 1242 01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:07,040 we have limited access to police services. Meaning that the the times of 1243 01:37:04,400 --> 01:37:11,360 which police are able to respond to issues within our community some kind 1244 01:37:08,960 --> 01:37:16,400 can be delayed by the volume that might be occurring across a region not just an 1245 01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:20,960 area. It can be delayed by the large expanse of land of which our op has to 1246 01:37:18,880 --> 01:37:25,440 travel. So if they right are situated in central elegant it's a 45minute delay. 1247 01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:31,040 So those are some of the concerns we can address to say municipalities then end 1248 01:37:28,159 --> 01:37:36,639 up bearing um some of the the cost to repair or end up addressing some of the 1249 01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:42,800 concerns and wanting to make sure that uh at a provincial level the supports to 1250 01:37:40,000 --> 01:37:47,840 in order to to provide for that. One of the concerns right now is the cost of 1251 01:37:44,320 --> 01:37:50,639 OP. We've already seen 11% increase. I'm going to guess that we're always going 1252 01:37:48,719 --> 01:37:54,320 to see 11% increase because that's the ceiling. 1253 01:37:52,239 --> 01:38:02,400 Um and so the cost for small municipalities to um be able to support 1254 01:37:58,480 --> 01:38:06,880 the cost of policing services um with limited resource or limited services 1255 01:38:04,719 --> 01:38:11,440 received for that increase of cost >> the general safety of our community too. 1256 01:38:09,280 --> 01:38:17,199 » Yeah. Do do you want me to proceed with in confirming uh a meeting a delegation 1257 01:38:14,320 --> 01:38:23,119 with them at this time or are you fine with the two that we have that 1258 01:38:20,719 --> 01:38:27,840 we've developed around? >> Yes, deputy. May I tell you? 1259 01:38:24,480 --> 01:38:31,760 » Well, I'd love to speak on the have a delegation on that. I think maybe 1260 01:38:29,679 --> 01:38:36,880 concentrating on our two we already have and putting our resources into that 1261 01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:41,840 would be best at this time. Okay. >> I would agree with that. 1262 01:38:38,960 --> 01:38:45,199 Okay, I'll focus on the two that we have and then also the the third one with 1263 01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:49,520 Ministry of Infrastructure, but that would occur after after. So, thank you. 1264 01:38:47,920 --> 01:38:53,440 Okay, thank you council for your comments and it'll help me um sort of 1265 01:38:51,920 --> 01:39:02,040 restructure and structure the one certainly for health services. 1266 01:38:56,719 --> 01:39:02,040 » Okay, thank you. a good conversation 1267 01:39:03,679 --> 01:39:12,000 and we're going to go actually we're going to go to a close session. 1268 01:39:10,080 --> 01:39:15,199 If you would do the recommendation, please 1269 01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:20,159 » that the council of the municipality of West Elgen hereby proceeds into close 1270 01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:23,520 session at 5:46 p.m. to discuss matters pursuant to the municipal act section 1271 01:39:21,840 --> 01:39:28,159 2392K being a position, plan, procedure, 1272 01:39:25,679 --> 01:39:33,760 criteria, or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be 1273 01:39:31,760 --> 01:39:39,360 carried on by or on behalf of the municipality or local board. Port 1274 01:39:35,679 --> 01:39:45,520 Glasgow trailer park seasonal contracts. Move, please. Councelor Susa 1275 01:39:42,480 --> 01:39:50,280 seconded Councelor Stithm. All in favor? That's carried. 1276 01:39:56,159 --> 01:40:03,760 » Okay, we're moving back into open session. 1277 01:40:00,960 --> 01:40:07,440 return to open session at 6:11, sorry, 6:12 p.m. 1278 01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:11,280 West Elgen Committee of the Whole received one item and received the 1279 01:40:09,040 --> 01:40:15,199 following recommendation. That West Elgen Committee of the Hole 1280 01:40:12,880 --> 01:40:20,000 receives the 2026 Port Glasgow trailer park contract details from R. Greenall, 1281 01:40:17,440 --> 01:40:25,040 CEO, and that the committee of the whole recommends that 2026 Port Glasgow 1282 01:40:23,040 --> 01:40:32,440 trailer park contract be amended and proceed to January 22nd West Elgen 1283 01:40:28,239 --> 01:40:32,440 Council meeting for final approval. 1284 01:40:33,199 --> 01:40:40,239 » You need to move. >> Yes, please. 1285 01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:48,239 » Moved by councelor Stathithm, seconded deputy mayor Talier. 1286 01:40:43,679 --> 01:40:48,239 All in favor? That's carried. 1287 01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:57,520 And that takes us to adjournment. >> That West Elgen Committee of the Whole 1288 01:40:54,880 --> 01:41:03,360 hereby adjourn at 6:12 p.m. to meet again at 4:00 p.m. on Thursday, January 1289 01:41:00,159 --> 01:41:08,400 22nd, 2026 or at the call of the chair. >> Move, please. 1290 01:41:06,080 --> 01:41:14,199 Councelor Susa seconded. Deputy Mayor Talier. All in favor? That's carried. 1291 01:41:11,040 --> 01:41:14,199 Thank you.