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She starts

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down.

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Okay. Good evening everybody. Welcome to
the West Ocean Township Board of

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Supervisors meeting for September the 1.
To start the meeting, will you please

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stand and join me in the pledge of
allegiance

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to the flag of the United States of
America and to the stands one

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indivisible
and justice for all.

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Thank you. Please be aware this meeting
is being live streamed on the township

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YouTube channel and that uh the meeting
may also be audio or video recorded by

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parties present in the room. Our first
item of business is public comment. Is

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there anyone here who has a comment or a
question about something that is not on

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the agenda this evening?
Yes, ma'am.

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This is my fellow.
>> Yes.

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[clears throat]
>> Thank you. My name is Suzanne Harkkins.

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Um before spontaneously, I want to say
how lovely it is to see the art exhibit

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out uh in the foyer. My grandmother
entered one of those a number of years

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ago and it was really special for her.
So um they're just wonderful. The courts

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are and the paintings are amazing. So,
uh, well done. Um, so first off, I want

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to say that it seems like a lot of hard
work to run the township. Uh, and thank

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you for that work. My comment today
relates to the proposed zoning ordinance

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update. So, it's a really dense 205page
document essentially sets out the vision

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for the township's future and what is
permitted and what is not permitted. Its

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subjects are wide ranging, but my focus
here today is really the R1 and R2

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residential zones, the declared purposes
and intent for them and the permitted

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their proposed permitted uses within
them. So the bottom line is as written

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now I I don't support the proposed uh
purposes and intents and nor their

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permitted uses as written. uh and why so
some extracts I'm condensing this for

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speed but obviously see the document for
the full text page two in the community

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development objectives contains phrases
like protecting the health and general

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welfare of Wisconsin residents the
compatible compatible balance of

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residential commercial and industrial
areas also accommodating reasonable

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overall community growth including
preventing excessive concentration of

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public uh population
now seeing cut to the lived experience

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of West Scotian residents and taxpayers.
Now, uh what I consistently hear from

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people is that there is already too much
traffic. Uh the continuous development

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is really reducing the quality of life
in the township and putting pressure on

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the township's roads and on other
infrastructure. I also hear people

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consistently talk about how much they
value the West Ocean's nature and

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wildlife.
So, it was a surprise to read section

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84.6, Six, the statement of purposes and
intent for zoning districts. The R1

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district, which is uh on the map, it
looks like it's about 10% in that north

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part above the burrow, which is uh 2B
predominantly single family detached

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residential dwellings as well as other
moderately dense housing types.

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R2 which is looks to be about 50 plus%
of the township. The intent for the

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district is to accommodate the expansion
of suburban development in those areas

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best suited for medium density
residential development. And I I think

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it's important to note the contrast from
R1 which is the intent is predominantly

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single family detached dwellings which
implies that R2 might not be. This reads

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like a green light for dense property
development. It gets worse in sections

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84.14
and 84.16 where the permitted uses in

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both R1 and R2 includes a range of
resident types, everything from town

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houses to multif family dwellings and
more. Uh please see the the documents

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themselves. But in other words, the
current zoning protections that limit

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development to detached single family
dwellings for the majority of

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residential ocean, which looks like in
the map eyeballing about 60% are

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removed. The proposed changes will alter
the fundamental character of the

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township and over time Chris at the risk
create at the risk of being a little bit

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dramatic, but I think the imagery is
important here, a wild west go property

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development bonanza because people can
do essentially open up these single

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family dwellings to so many different
other types from corporations or private

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owners.
In conclusion, I generally recognize

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that updating the ordinances is a very
hard task and so is evaluating them. For

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clarity, I do want the zoning to remain
as single family, detached residence,

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dwellings only for R1 and R2. Most
people don't know that this

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comprehensive rewrite is happening. I
hope we can find a better way forward

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for West Ocean than these R1 and R2
ordinances as currently written. one

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that protects it from excessive
development and protects the nature in

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the township. And if I can be of
assistance in helping to find that way,

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I am willing. So, thank you.
>> Thank you, Suzanne. I appreciate your

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comments. Um, Chris, just remind the
board where we are in the process of

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review and adoption of the new
ordinance.

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» Um, so we received comments back from
the Chester County Planning Commission.

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Those comments were uh reviewed at the
August 18th board meeting. Generally

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speaking, the county planning commission
supported the work that was done by the

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township um in compliance with the
township with the county's comprehensive

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plan. Um we are making uh change we're
making the requested changes from the

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board in alliance with the comments that
were received. Um and then those will go

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back to the county for their review as
well as our planning commission for for

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their review. But it is just to address
the comments that were from the county

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planning commission and the updates that
are made in accordance with those

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comments. And then it'll be advertis.
It's been advertise on the township

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website for
two months I want to say since about the

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end of June, beginning of July. And
we've been running articles in the

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township newsletter every month since in
July and August. Um so it'll be

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advertised for a public hearing once the
once the next round of review comments

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come back.
>> Okay. And there were you comments that

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the discussion on August 18th mainly
centered around the data center

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language. Correct.
>> Correct.

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» And I'll just note that we held a joint
public meeting with the planning

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commission and the board of supervisors
back in January that was publicly

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advertised. Um we've held we've held
discussions with both the board of

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supervisors as well as the land planning
committee. All those meetings have been

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publicly advertised. Um so there has
been opportunity for input along during

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this process.
>> Yeah, I mean your comment's a fair one.

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Um I think we have to balance kind of
expectations [clears throat] people have

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about the fact that there is not enough
housing in this country and that we have

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a developed uh area here suburban
development that can uh we have seen

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infill developments mainly of single
family homes. Most of our multif family

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construction in the last seven years
that I've been on the board has been

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along the main corridors like uh the
point and luxur I don't know what it's

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called now. And then uh we've had a
couple of other uh additional type of uh

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like the the quality is being
redeveloped into a assisted living

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facility. They've all tended to be where
we've had dens denser development along

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the main corridors. Um I think in R1 and
R2 lot sizes are going to limit the

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ability for anyone to come in and put
substantial development in unless they

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acquire several lots. Um so I think
again in my perspective it is a balance

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between allowing people to exercise
their private property rights for infill

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development while still maintaining
reasonable zoning with respect to uh

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what can be done on an individual lot
for the the residential zones that we

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have. Anyone else want to add to that?
Well, just just to kind of build on

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that, we did do a um what I'll call like
a vacant land or build out analysis as

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part of this process. And the ultimate
determination of this was that the

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township is very nearly built out.
After Graceman is completed, there are

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not many parcels for large scale
development.

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» And I suppose the question uh is is that
a bad thing? Again, going back to I I

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take the point about uh housing need in
the country, but this is really about

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West Scotian residents and taxpayers and
the taxes that they pay and the desire

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to reflecting those. I did watch the
January presentation. I was not in

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attendance. I did watch the video and I
noted there was a question about well

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could someone just rip down a house and
build uh multif family or you know build

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multiple dwellings on it and the answer
from JD was yes they could do that. It

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opens the door for property developers
and I did have the sense that um it was

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written from the perspective of property
developers not really to provide housing

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in America for the unhoused. So with
that in mind, I respectfully disagree

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and still maintain my point. And I think
the there I think there is a

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fitforpurpose issue that's broader than
just this. And I 100% trust that

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emphatically that the proper process of
uh advertising and holding meetings has

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been undertaken. I have absolutely no
question about that. But I think there's

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a fit for purpose issue because it was
sad to see at the last meeting that

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there were four people at the end of the
meeting. That's not a lot of civic

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engagement. It's I don't think people
know, nobody I have spoken to about

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this, other residents have known that
this ordinance was going and reading a

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very dense 205 page document, it's very
difficult for members of the public to

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be able to do that comprehensively and
uh effectively. So that's a a broader

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issue, but I think a very relevant one
here. And I will maintain that I do not

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believe that residents want that widened
zoning for different residential house

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types.
>> Okay.

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» Absolutely not.
>> Okay. Thank you.

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» Thank you.
>> Is anyone else with a public comment?

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» Yes, ma'am.
>> Um, am I allowed to give a public

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comment if I'm not a Scotian resident?
>> You are. You may be limited the amount

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of time depending on what your subject
is. If you just at least state your name

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and where you do live, please.
>> Good evening. Um, my name is Carrie

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Rosscamp. I live in Thornbury Township,
227 St. Hill Lane, Westchester. And, uh,

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it's great to be here. The reason I'm
here tonight is to introduce, if you

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haven't heard about it, a greenway
that's being proposed that kind of

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dovetales into the interest in
recreation and nature and preservation

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of land. It would be a rail with trail
plan in the SEPTA corridor. Um, Chris

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has been copied on this a couple of
times. It would begin on Market Street

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of Westchester Burrow and extend all the
way down to the Wawa station on route

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one be a 9.29 mile trail and West Ocean
would be one of the municipalities

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adjacent to the septic corridor. So it
would cross through two counties and

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seven municipalities and affect probably
close to 100,000 local residents not

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counting students at Westchester
University and Shane University. Um by

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our estimate it would connect uh high
schools, elementary schools, YMCA's

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parks
um etc etc in addition to the two

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universities
um the major railroad station on on

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route one and then of course the burrow
which is a huge um you know area for

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entertainment, restaurants, etc. Um, I
just wanted to invite you if you'd like

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to get a full presentation, I'd be happy
to come back and do that. But to alert

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you to the fact that today we met with
John O'Brien, who's of the Westchester

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Business Improvement District, and he
has agreed to apply for a um,

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feasibility study application on our
behalf through the local share account,

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which is a pool of money that's set
aside from gaming revenue. the projects

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can max out at $1 million a piece and
they're no grant, meaning if that grant

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is approved, there's no cost to the m
municipalities

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um to, you know, help fund a feasibility
study. Um anyway, that's that's it in a

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nutshell. I'd be happy to come back some
other time and provide maps and more

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information, but at some point, uh Chris
will be the contact person to be

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notified. Um each of the township
managers will be invited to contribute a

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letter of support for the project. Um I
think it would be a tremendous long-term

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um enhancement of recreation and um
transportation opportunities for the

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municipalities.
In in other words, this is akin in my

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mind to the Chester Valley Trail where
maybe there was some opposition at first

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because of property values or theft or
crime rates going up and then as it was

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put into place an ADA accessible trail
that you could use for strollers and

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wheelchairs and biking and cycling and
dog walking. It was embraced by the

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community and um you know has been a
tremendous success and has increased

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property values and is being extended as
far as I know out to Downington. Now, um

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the southern end of our trail,
coincidentally passing through Delco

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County, was written into the Delco
Planning Commission trail map system

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years ago and was intended to be a an
extension of the Chester Creek Trail,

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which as you know is being built um with
their northern terminus at the Wawa

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Station. Um and also just one final note
is this trail would dovetail in addition

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to the railroad station at Wawa. Uh it
would meet up with two other trails in

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the um circuit trail network. The Octa
Railroad Trail, which is I believe an

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eight mile trail, which will go east
west along par one and um like I said

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the west the Chester Creek Trail which
will eventually will go down to the

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Delaware River. So it's it it will be
just an enormous point of connection

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north to south um for all our
municipalities of not just Westchester

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Burough, West Ocean, Thornbury, Chesco,
Westtown, Thornbury, Delo, Middletown,

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Winchester Heights.
>> Okay, thank you.

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» Quick question. Is is the property all
owned by SE?

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» Yes, but it's leased to the burrow. The
burrow leases that and it's subleasased

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to the railroad company that operates
their passenger railroad.

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» Yes, it's
>> first I'm hearing of and I don't think

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the burrow understands
>> what's happening.

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» It's leased to it's accepted land leased
to the burrow subleased to the I don't

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00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:07,199
remember the name of the sub but they
operate I think it's called core states

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00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,000
LLC or something like that. So
>> okay

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00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:15,440
» it's being used as a real and sept is
not real easy to work with. We we we

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already have we already have had
multiple discussions with SEPTA. They do

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approve of this project. I know there
are some attempts to restore passenger

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rail on a section of the rail which is
currently operating only a historic

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train at a very low speed. Um this trail
would in no way conflict. In fact, it's

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almost like a symbiotic relationship
like this hike belly gorge where they

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have historic train and a bike trail.
That's what the vision is. Um the most

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of the corridor there is almost a
football fieldwide. I know the grade

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changes at points and so it's hard to
imagine another trail going in but it is

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a very large corridor. Do you know what
the total cost proposed total cost is

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after the feasibility study is completed
and also where the money will come from

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to implement that?
>> At this point I would say the

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feasibility study is a a high quality
feasibility study is purposefully

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intended to answer all the questions
about cost, trail access, parking,

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maintenance, ownership, etc., etc. Um, I
know on the Chester Creek trail side, it

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was a friends group that got that trail
started. Um, three miles have been built

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of the 5 miles plant and it took them 20
years and that ownership of that piece

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of land has gone over to Delaware
County, but the friends group got it

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started and it was painfully slow and
uh, we hope we're not at that pace

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because some of the original members of
that group died before the shovels hit

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the ground and that trail has been a
phenomenal success. They're currently

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00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:57,840
redoing their parking lots to
accommodate all the people that want to

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um you know
go on it now. Yeah. So yeah, I'm happy

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to give a more full presentation another
time.

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» So just up there you just informing the
board that you're going to be looking

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for a supporting letter for this LSA
grant application. Correct.

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00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:16,320
» Yes. I it's like mainly information. I'm
happy to follow through with anybody

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00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,799
individual, but we are well aware that
SEPTA is the owner. Westchester Burrow

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is leasing it. They sublease a portion
of it. We we know that. We've worked

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with the railroad people.
>> Subleas the entire right ofway from the

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burrow station to Guawa.
>> They they do they don't actively put

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their train on more than the first 5
miles of it, but I think they

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occasionally run a car or something
there. But yes, no, we're we're we're

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00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,799
well aware of that. We have very
detailed maps. We're working with people

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00:18:39,039 --> 00:18:45,360
like John Randolph on the Skookul River
Trail and Ray UT who's been developing a

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00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:49,200
lot of trails in the county area here.
Um, and like I said, people on the

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00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:54,799
Westchester
Chester Creek Trail side. So, we're

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00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:58,799
we're we're very closely um,
you know, related to people on

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00:18:57,039 --> 00:19:03,200
Pennsylvania
environmental council and DBRPC and a

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00:19:01,679 --> 00:19:05,280
lot of other people who advised this on
trail development.

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00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:07,520
» Okay. Well, thank you.
>> Yeah. Thank you.

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00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:12,640
» Is there anyone else for the public
comment this evening?

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00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:17,919
Okay. Okay, then we'll move on to the
next agenda item, which is agenda item

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00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:24,000
number four, discussion and possible
approval of an Eagle Scout project for

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00:19:20,799 --> 00:19:27,600
Walter Conrad to install a Gaga ball pit
at Cooper Smith Park. Chris will

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00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,880
introduce that and Walter's going to
come up to the microphone. Thank you.

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00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,960
Welcome,
>> Mr. Chairman. For the board this evening

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00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:39,120
is a proposed Eagle Scout project for
Walter Conrad. Mr. Conrad is proposing

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00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:43,120
to install a Gaga pit in Cooper Smith
Park. Uh the proposed project was

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00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:45,520
reviewed by the park and recreation
board at their meeting on August 19th

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00:19:44,908 --> 00:19:49,440
[clears throat]
uh where it was unanimously recommended

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00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:53,120
for approval. Um prior to the
presentation by the park and recreation

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00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:57,360
board, the the proposed project was
reviewed by the township's park and

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00:19:54,960 --> 00:20:01,120
recreation director uh Kenneth Leer who
is here this evening as well as the

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00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:06,320
public works department who are also
supportive of the installation. Um and

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00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:10,720
Mr. Conrad has provided a brief
presentation [clears throat]

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00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:15,120
uh providing an overview of his project.
One minute to bring that up

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00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,440
and I will turn it over to him. So
Walter just tell me when to change

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00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,440
slides.
>> Thank you. Hi, my name is Walter Conrad.

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I'm a candidate for Eagle Scout with
Troop 7 in Melvin, Pennsylvania. I very

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00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:31,039
much enjoy playing Gaga ball which is a
game like dodgeball but the you hit the

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00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:35,520
ball with your hand and I believe the
youth attending West Gian day camp and

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00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:40,240
Cooper Smith Park as well as the kids in
the surrounding neighborhood should have

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00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:44,000
a new permanent Gaga ball pit. I'm
seeking approval from the West Ocean

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00:20:42,159 --> 00:20:48,080
Township Board for my Eagle Scout
project which is building a Gaga ball

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00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:52,159
pit at Cooper Smith Park. My trip has
experienced youth have already created

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00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:57,280
Gaga ball pits for other schools such as
St. Norberts and we are prepared to fund

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00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:01,120
and build the Gugup ball pit for Cooper
Smith Park. I personally have built

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00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:07,159
furniture and I'm prepared to lead this
project to benefit the youth around

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00:21:02,559 --> 00:21:07,159
Cooper Smith Park. Next,

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00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:12,960
I propose building a permanent Gaga ball
pit at Cooper Smith Park to replace the

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00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:19,120
inflatable one that the township
currently uses. The Gaga ball pit will

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00:21:16,159 --> 00:21:26,080
be an octagon. It will have 8 ft long
sides and 30 in will be 30 in high. It

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00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:31,200
will be approximately 20 ft across.
But next

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00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:36,080
I will be uh it will be an octagon with
8 ft long blue sides and ADA door,

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00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:41,440
rubber flooring with holes for drainage
and a notch to get in easier and dark

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00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:45,120
blue corners hinges. The the sample up
here with the red hinges, it would be

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00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:49,840
that but with the blue hinges on the
right.

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00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:53,600
Next,
who will pay? Donations will be

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00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:58,000
forthcoming from friends in the scouting
community, family, and I would accept

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00:21:56,000 --> 00:22:01,400
donations from for the project from
anyone here.

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00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:10,240
Official what or what I need? Official
approval from the West Scotian Township

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00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:13,919
Board, the Chester County Council,
um, and the location of where the donors

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00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:19,120
have unofficially lined up can send
their donations. a mailing address for

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00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:23,360
the donations via check, cash, and if
possible, a place for credit card

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00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:28,720
donations. The company Coach Cliff Gaga
Ball Pits will require full payment in

287
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:34,640
order to ship the materials. I complete
uh a completed Pennsylvania sales tax um

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00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:40,880
exemption form, a total amount of
$8,329.

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00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:47,200
If the PA sales and tax exempt form and
501c number is provided, the amount

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00:22:43,679 --> 00:22:52,000
would be 4 71 less.
Next,

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00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:55,760
when this when will this be completed? I
would love to get this built by

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00:22:53,280 --> 00:23:00,559
November. My project is pending West
Ocean Township approval, Chester County

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00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:04,400
Council approval, and arrival of the
full amount of funding, full payment to

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00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:10,480
the supplier, and availability of
materials, shipment to West Ocean and

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00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:14,720
weather. Do you guys have any questions?
>> Thank you, Walter. Very good. Um, so let

296
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:19,440
me see. Does the board have any
questions for Walter about this project?

297
00:23:17,679 --> 00:23:24,640
» Sure, Walter. So, is this like the
standard size for a Gaga ball pit?

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00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:28,559
» Um, this is a pretty standard size. This
one will be a little bit bigger though.

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00:23:26,799 --> 00:23:31,760
That way we can accommodate for more
people

300
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,360
» and like will camp kids be playing in
it, things like that.

301
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:40,799
» Yeah, currently the the Cooper Smith
Parks day camp uses inflatable Gaga ball

302
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:45,280
pit. So, this would replace that. And if
any of those kids want to do it on their

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00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:48,640
free time, they'll be able to do that.
>> That's great. Thank you.

304
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,919
» So, would it be in the exact same place
is where the inflatable one is put up or

305
00:23:50,559 --> 00:23:54,960
do you have a different location in
mind?

306
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:58,880
» Uh, it is planned to be built at the
exact same place where the current one

307
00:23:57,039 --> 00:24:03,440
is, the inflatable one.
>> And it would be um it would be

308
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,919
permanent. It would be there all year
round available for everyone.

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00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:10,880
» Yes, it would be permanent.
>> Okay. And what kind of maintenance is

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00:24:07,679 --> 00:24:15,520
required for it? Um,
I can't think of any maintenance because

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00:24:13,279 --> 00:24:19,760
the mats would like probably make sure
or would make sure that the grass or

312
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:24,080
anything would not go through and we're
using composite lumber, so it's like

313
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,880
plastic, so it should last like 40ome
years.

314
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:30,880
» Okay. Anyone else with a question?
>> Uh, yeah. Is the inflatable the same the

315
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:35,600
current inflatable the same size as the
one that you're proposing? Uh, it's

316
00:24:32,559 --> 00:24:41,120
about the same size, but apparently the
uh the staff at the day camp have to

317
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:44,000
bring out the inflatable every single
day and they have to take it home every

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00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,960
single night. So, it' be saving them
some time.

319
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:49,760
» Okay. Thank you.
>> Thank you.

320
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,080
» Have you started receiving donations
yet?

321
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:56,720
» Uh, I'm not allowed to receive donations
yet till I get approval from the West

322
00:24:54,480 --> 00:25:01,200
Coast Township.
>> I have a question for Chris. Chester

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00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,480
County counts. Chester County, we
talking about their approval would be

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00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,080
needed for this. Walter seems to think
so.

325
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,559
» Yeah, that's that's where I was a little
bit confused.

326
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:10,960
» I need
>> Yeah, I need my Boy Scout council's

327
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:16,799
approval.
>> Got it. Thank you. And then um so I got

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00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:20,720
a little bit of sticker shock when I saw
how much money you needed to raise. And

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00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:26,159
I before this meeting, I did a quick
Google look as to what Gaga pits might

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00:25:23,919 --> 00:25:30,400
cost. I don't think the ones I looked at
were as good as and nice as what you

331
00:25:28,559 --> 00:25:34,799
showed here today, but they were
substantially cheaper. So, I wondered if

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00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:38,880
you'd done any evaluation yet on how to
get the price a little lower for just so

333
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:43,360
you can make it easier on yourself to
raise the the money that you need.

334
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:47,840
Um,
these ones are like the best ones that

335
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:54,159
they have out there and a lot of the
cost is just coming from the like the

336
00:25:51,120 --> 00:25:58,960
composite lumber, but that's makes it
sure that it will last for a very long

337
00:25:56,799 --> 00:26:03,520
time, not have to be replaced.
>> Okay. So, two other questions maybe for

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00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:08,880
Chris, I think. So, typically we do not
like to be the recipient of fundraising

339
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:13,679
here at the township. So unfortunately
on that Walter, we would look to the Boy

340
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:18,559
Scouts to be the ones managing the
collection of the donations. We don't

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00:26:16,159 --> 00:26:23,039
like to have the situation where we have
staff at the township receiving money

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00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:26,960
and making sure it's kept separate from
our accounts and everything else. So

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00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:32,240
it's best, I think, would you agree,
Chris, that the Boy Scouts manage the

344
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:36,240
process of your fundraising?
>> And then secondly, one question I do

345
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,600
have though is maybe to help try to
lower the cost. I asked Ken this earlier

346
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:46,320
is is if the township was once you
raised the money, if the township was to

347
00:26:43,679 --> 00:26:51,520
procure this through our co-stars
um type pricing, would we get a better

348
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:55,200
price than has been quoted to to Walter?
What do you think?

349
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:58,240
» We can look into that
>> because then we could purchase it and

350
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,640
you would just reimburse the township
for it. We could certainly go out and

351
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:08,400
get a competitive price for you against
what you've been quoted from so far and

352
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:11,600
see if we can get a lower a lower price
>> for the same design that you want.

353
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:14,080
» Oh,
>> you [clears throat] have to give us the

354
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,960
specifications for exactly what you
wanted and what you can quote it and

355
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:22,080
then we can see if we can get a better
price.

356
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:25,679
» All right, I can do that. Uh,
>> and then Boy Scouts need to we need to

357
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:29,440
fund raise the money and just hand it
over to you guys then. But you would

358
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:34,000
fund raise the money and then if you if
we don't get a better price, you would

359
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:36,880
purchase the uh equipment yourself and
then we would just lay with you for the

360
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,919
installation.
>> If we can get a better price, it has to

361
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:46,159
be procured it through a municipal uh
purchase order. Then we would purchase

362
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,520
it and you would reimburse us from what
you fund raise for the for the amount.

363
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,960
» Uh
>> but we'll get you the price that we can

364
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,440
get it for and see if it's better than
what you've already got. Does that sound

365
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,399
reasonable?
>> That sounds reasonable. There are two

366
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:02,559
generally two companies that we've
utilized through co-stars. Um, General

367
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:07,760
Recreation, they provided the quote for
the splash pad. They also did the skate

368
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:12,559
park project and um, Boyce Recreation.
Um, they're doing the playground change

369
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,760
out at South Conquered Crest Park. So,
we can look for both of them,

370
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:19,279
» but we won't compromise your design. You
tell us exactly what it is you're

371
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:23,520
looking for in terms of the design, the
quality if you want, and we will make

372
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:26,320
sure we get pricing for the equivalent
design for you. Okay.

373
00:28:25,919 --> 00:28:29,840
» Okay.
>> Any other questions for Walter?

374
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,760
» Ken has a question.
>> Ken,

375
00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:38,000
» just to clarify, um Walter did indicate
at the park and recreation board meeting

376
00:28:35,919 --> 00:28:43,120
that for scout projects, they typically
team up with a 501c3 organization to

377
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:47,760
take care of the fundraising and the the
payment distributions. Uh at that

378
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:51,679
meeting where Jerry Napichek and Susan
Batton representing the friends of West

379
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:55,840
Ocean Parks and they did agree that the
friends of West Ocean Parks would

380
00:28:53,120 --> 00:29:00,880
partner. So it would not be a township.
>> Okay. Well, that's the solution to that

381
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:03,520
then, right? I believe. Yeah. Chris, you
would be okay with that, right?

382
00:29:02,399 --> 00:29:08,240
» Independent. Yep.
>> They're an independent 501c3.

383
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:13,200
» Okay. Is there anyone here in attendance
who has a question for Walter's project?

384
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:17,679
» Yes, Suzanne.
>> Uh, so I love games. I've never heard of

385
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:21,440
that. So, I was wondering how you can
help others in the community to learn

386
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,279
what it is and how to play so that the
community can make the most of it. So,

387
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,120
with the Gaga ball pit we currently
have, it will have a little tiny sign on

388
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:32,480
site to show you all the rules so people
can learn how to play and if they

389
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,480
already know how to play, they can get a
refresher.

390
00:29:36,159 --> 00:29:40,559
» Great answer.
>> Yeah. Yeah.

391
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,159
» Anyone else with a question?
Well, thank you. Fabulous presentation.

392
00:29:42,399 --> 00:29:46,159
We look forward to working with you and
trying to make this happen as soon as we

393
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:50,559
can.
>> Mr. Chairman, I I think there should be

394
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:54,960
a vote to approve the the installation.
>> Sounds good. All right. So, as a board

395
00:29:52,640 --> 00:30:00,399
member, I will want to make a motion to
approve the uh installation of a gargle

396
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:04,080
pit at Cooper Smith Park as part of the
Boy Scouts project for Walter Conrad.

397
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:07,679
» Second.
>> Okay, so Nate's made the motion and Tina

398
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:12,159
is second. Is there any public comment
or questions about the motion?

399
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:16,000
Okay, then we'll take a vote. All in
favor say I. I. Is there anyone opposed?

400
00:30:15,025 --> 00:30:19,600
[clears throat]
>> Hearing none, the motion passes 40.

401
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:24,250
Thank you, Walter.
>> Thank you very much. You're welcome to

402
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:24,250
stay. [applause]

403
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:30,240
You're welcome to stay and enjoy the
rest of the meeting. Or if you've got

404
00:30:28,159 --> 00:30:33,919
other things you'd rather be doing, no
problem. [laughter]

405
00:30:32,399 --> 00:30:37,120
» Walter, do you need Do you need a letter
from me confirming the board's approval?

406
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,880
» Um,
>> so I can get you that tomorrow. It's not

407
00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:42,559
a problem.
>> I need to get something signed from

408
00:30:41,039 --> 00:30:45,039
Eagle Scout papers.
>> Okay. Yeah, just send me send me

409
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,679
whatever you need signed and I'll take
care of it for you.

410
00:30:46,399 --> 00:30:54,000
» Thank you very much.
Very good. So, we'll move on to agenda

411
00:30:52,159 --> 00:30:58,399
item number five. Discussion and
possible approval of a request from

412
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:03,520
Westchester University for use of
fireworks firework displays during home

413
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:08,159
football games on September the 12th and
October the 17th, 2026.

414
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:11,440
Chris,
>> Mr. Chairman, before the board this

415
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:15,039
evening is a request from Westchester
University to open fireworks displays

416
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:19,760
during their home football games on
September 12th and October 17th. We have

417
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:23,440
representatives from the university here
this evening to discuss this and answer

418
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:26,960
any questions that the board may have.
Um the university is following the same

419
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:31,279
procedures for this display as were
outlined for the RAM rally that was

420
00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:36,320
approved on July 21st. Um it's my
understanding that these will this these

421
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:40,480
events will be smaller and shorter
displays than what was done for the RAM

422
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:43,840
rally. Additionally, the university has
secured agreements with Good Fellowship

423
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:47,840
Ambulance Company for coverage and
provided a diagram of the location to be

424
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,679
utilized. Uh they've also submitted a
special event submitted special event

425
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:56,480
permit application to the township and
I've spoken with our fire marshal Mike

426
00:31:53,679 --> 00:31:59,679
McCarthy who advised that um that
provided they are following the same

427
00:31:57,919 --> 00:32:03,919
procedures as the ram rally he does not
have any concerns with this event. So

428
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,919
I'll bring up the information that they
provided.

429
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:30,480
So this is where the uh where everything
will be launched from. Um generally it's

430
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:34,799
the same exact location as was approved
for the RAM rally back in July that was

431
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:38,799
held in August.
>> Thank you Chris. Welcome Julianne. I'm

432
00:32:38,159 --> 00:32:42,159
sorry.
>> My name is Kim Farah.

433
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,679
» Nice nice to meet you. Thank you for
being here. Does the board have any

434
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:49,840
questions for Julio Kim?
>> Yeah. So, I mean, it seems like you guys

435
00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:53,200
come before us a lot to ask for
permission for sort of the same thing.

436
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:57,360
I'm just wondering if there's a
requirement that we have to approve

437
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:01,200
every one of these individually if we
can have some understanding that, you

438
00:32:59,039 --> 00:33:05,519
know, certain times of the year they'll
be doing fireworks displays like home

439
00:33:03,279 --> 00:33:09,919
games or during homecoming. Or how does
the board feel about that? And do we

440
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,279
have to evaluate these every time they
come to us? Because I don't see anything

441
00:33:11,919 --> 00:33:17,679
really changing.
>> There is nothing required in terms of

442
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:21,840
board approval. It's just been past
practice. So if the board would like to

443
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:25,760
change that as a policy direction, that
is certainly within the board's ballot.

444
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:31,679
» I would be okay with that as long as the
none of the conditions or terms or

445
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:35,600
requirements within that don't change.
But if they do for whatever reason,

446
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,240
maybe you want bigger display or
something, then I think approval should

447
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:42,240
come back
>> and give it for our fire marshall and

448
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,720
everybody else that needs to go through.
>> Other than that, I I think we can

449
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,320
standardize it.
>> Yeah, there's some sort of agreement

450
00:33:45,919 --> 00:33:52,320
maybe that we can draft that we can kind
of come to an agreement. Yeah. As long

451
00:33:49,919 --> 00:33:55,840
as it's, you know, to certain
conditions, certain times of year, that

452
00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,279
way we don't have to keep bringing you
guys out here. as much as we love to see

453
00:33:57,919 --> 00:34:02,960
him. [laughter]
>> Was

454
00:34:01,039 --> 00:34:05,760
this a recent decision to add these two?
Because obviously you could have

455
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:09,919
requested it when you came for the
original

456
00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:13,839
» uh you know
um is having I'm the director of student

457
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:17,679
engagement. So um the university is
having a bigger push for our home

458
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:22,240
football games to increase engagement
both from the community as well as our

459
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:25,440
current students. Um and so last year we
built them up a little bit by adding

460
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:29,839
some more events for students. We also
have a kids zone at every home football

461
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:33,839
game for community members. And so this
year to just make it a little bit

462
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:39,200
bigger, we were just hoping to have
fireworks to conclude our first home

463
00:34:35,679 --> 00:34:42,960
game um as well as the last home game um
that's at nighttime because the

464
00:34:40,879 --> 00:34:46,879
university moved our home games um
except for homecoming and family weekend

465
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:51,599
to be at 6 p.m. to hopefully have some
more engagement um from students in the

466
00:34:49,599 --> 00:34:57,440
community. So it's also different
because it's a nighttime game.

467
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:01,520
So to your point I think in other words
this is actually smaller in terms of the

468
00:34:59,599 --> 00:35:05,760
display the phone games
>> um versus the RAM route or the the

469
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:09,200
welcome you want to be initially. So I
think to your as long as those

470
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:13,760
parameters like maximum up or something
like that seems

471
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:18,800
» just wondering approximately what time
would the fireworks go off. So, I talked

472
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:23,200
to um Terry Bey, who's the athletics
director, and he said probably around

473
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:26,640
900 p.m. Um, and it would only be for 8
minutes. Okay.

474
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:31,200
» And the community is welcome to attend
the game and view the fireworks as well.

475
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:35,119
» Is there any notification I'm sorry, is
there any notification that you're

476
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,920
required to do to the nearby residents
and all?

477
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:42,000
» No, but for best practice, we sometimes
put up like yard signs and things in the

478
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:46,240
entrances of the neighborhood. Um, we
also monitor social media and I will say

479
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:49,440
for REM rally in some of the Facebook
groups, people seem very informed about

480
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:51,920
what was happening. You know, people
were saying, "What are the fireworks?"

481
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:55,200
And and people were saying, "Oh, they're
to welcome the new students at the

482
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:58,960
stadium." So, I feel like people seemed
to know um especially cuz we've done

483
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:03,280
that a couple years, but we do have
plans to um have yard signs and say like

484
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,680
come to the football game and put them
kind of around the neighborhood um

485
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:10,720
particularly around the stadium. But
yeah,

486
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:16,640
» uh, understanding the nature of
football, sometimes it multiple over

487
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:23,119
times, is it possible to put
>> like a time limit as to when they could

488
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:26,560
go up, maybe 10:00, no later than 10:00?
>> So, they would I can kind of they would

489
00:36:25,119 --> 00:36:30,880
be subject to our noise ordinance
provision. So, if that were to happen,

490
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,280
the noise ordinance would kick in and
would pretty much bar them from doing

491
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,119
it.
>> All right.

492
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:41,359
Do we have a fireworks provision in our
ordinance?

493
00:36:39,119 --> 00:36:45,520
» I don't know off the top of my head the
fireworks provisions

494
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:52,760
» is that something worth having so that
instead of an agreement we have just

495
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:52,760
guidelines or requirements.

496
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:02,960
Like I'm not actually even clear on what
the law the state the state law for

497
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,160
fireworks is right now and what people
are permitted to do as far as fireworks.

498
00:37:04,720 --> 00:37:08,720
Who can set them off? When they can set
them off. So can anybody set off

499
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,640
fireworks?
>> No, it depends on what like sparkler

500
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:15,520
type fireworks or definitions in the
fireworks law.

501
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,839
» So the the ones that like go off.
>> Yeah. The ones that they're talking

502
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:22,240
about you have to have a license.
>> Yeah. The man has a license. Yeah. And I

503
00:37:19,839 --> 00:37:26,960
will say like our purchasing department
is extremely thorough and so we make

504
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:32,240
sure that like we give them they won't
even put a contract through if we don't

505
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:35,599
have um licenses from the fireworks
company and you know

506
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:39,680
» ammunition what's going on
>> exactly what's happening. So and COIs

507
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:43,119
and everything like that. So at least on
the university side we would never put

508
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:47,040
something out on our end that wasn't
like completely legal.

509
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,240
» Exactly.
>> Okay. So it sounds like we've got two

510
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:53,599
things to do. wanted to review and
consider approving this tonight and then

511
00:37:51,839 --> 00:37:58,240
also as a followup but she's to try to
come up with some language that just

512
00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,800
kind of sets this as to what would be a
normal for you so you don't have to do

513
00:37:59,839 --> 00:38:06,320
this every year
>> that would be awesome. Yeah, I would say

514
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:10,079
like the welcome back event is a is a
time a normal time and then probably

515
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,800
these football games, but other than
that, we don't normally have anything

516
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:16,880
else throughout the year, but it will be
nice, I think, to have something um that

517
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:20,960
we could share with our purchasing
department as well because they don't

518
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:24,800
put it through unless we give them the
township agreement as well. So, um

519
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,320
external.
>> Yeah, got us. Okay.

520
00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:32,400
» Okay. So, that's a followup quiz for
that second item. And then obviously

521
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:36,240
today we're looking at Is there a board
member willing to make a motion to

522
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:40,480
approve the request from Westchester
University for the use of fireworks

523
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:43,280
during those two home football games on
September the 12th and October the 17th?

524
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:47,119
» So just real quick,
>> I'll make that motion. Oh, go ahead.

525
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:50,960
» I just wanted to address question. So
our fireworks provisions generally

526
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,160
mirror the state law and they regulate
how far you have to be from like

527
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:58,480
residential dwelling units to shoot them
off. But there is no provisions related

528
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:04,160
to noise. So our noise ordinance would
default situation. So that would govern

529
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:07,680
it. Um it doesn't say anything about
requiring approval from the board. I

530
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,640
think that's just been past practice.
But they do have permits which we can

531
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:12,560
handle through our special permit
process.

532
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,920
» Okay.
>> Okay. So we have

533
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,480
» Sorry about that.
>> We have a motion from Tina. Is there a

534
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,560
second?
>> Second.

535
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:22,480
» Thank you Nate.
>> Uh any questions from the board on the

536
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:27,119
motion? Again this is just to approve
these two upcoming events September 12th

537
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:29,920
October 17th. Is there any public
comments or questions on the motion?

538
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,560
Darthy.
>> Yeah. Hi, uh Dorothy Verden. I'm a West

539
00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:39,520
Ocean resident and I'm also chair of the
sustainability advisory committee. And I

540
00:39:37,119 --> 00:39:46,720
just want to say that fireworks are very
disruptive to animals, to wildlife. And

541
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:53,119
um um unfortunately a lead for my
neighborhood with the nextdoor.com

542
00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:57,760
app and there are a lot of fireworks. I
remember that it was Westchester

543
00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:02,560
University, but uh weeks before Fourth
of July and for weeks after Fourth of

544
00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:08,960
July, they would be set off and they
were loud and big fireworks and it would

545
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:15,839
be, you know, 9:30, 10:00, sometimes
10:30, 11:00 at night and uh people

546
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:20,160
would complain in nextdoor.com how their
dogs would go crazy, their cats, you

547
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:26,320
know, animals would hide under beds and
stuff. So, I just I just want to say

548
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:30,480
that um I wish that you would get like
um drones instead of fireworks because

549
00:40:29,422 --> 00:40:35,760
[clears throat] they're just noisy.
They're disruptive and they're really

550
00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:39,839
hard on wildlife and um domestic cats.
Thank you.

551
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:43,200
» Thank you, Dorothy. Good comments. Um I
mean, I think it's great that you work

552
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:46,800
with us so we know how many are doing
and that we we we work with fire

553
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:51,839
marshall and everything else. You know,
I think what D is referring to is more

554
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:56,160
presumably individuals letting fireworks
off. I don't think there's that many

555
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:59,920
firework
events, you know, in the month of June

556
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:05,119
or the month of August. It's just that
people have access to these these

557
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,040
fireworks. That's my opinion anyway.
>> Well, I'm certainly not from Westchester

558
00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:08,400
University.
>> Exactly.

559
00:41:07,599 --> 00:41:12,240
» No. No.
>> Okay. Any other comments?

560
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:15,928
» Okay, then we'll take a vote. All in
favor say I.

561
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,400
» I. Is there any opposition?
[clears throat] Motion passes 40. Thank

562
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:23,680
you for your time.
>> Thank you very much. Thanks.

563
00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:26,640
» Agenda item number six is discussion
regarding zoning hearing board

564
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:32,960
application [clears throat] number 11
2026 for Chester County Hospital seeking

565
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:36,800
a variance from section 846786
of the West Ocean Township zoning

566
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:40,640
ordinance.
>> Good evening. My name is Elizabeth

567
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:46,240
Whitmer. I'm with the law firm of Sally
Euing. I have with me tonight uh Mr.

568
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:51,599
Flickinger from Chester County Hospital.
He's the COO of the hospital to answer

569
00:41:49,359 --> 00:41:58,720
any questions you have. We're here
seeking a variance because we have a uh

570
00:41:55,359 --> 00:42:04,480
temporary MRI facility that's right in
front of the hospital near the emergency

571
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:09,319
room. Um Chris, if you could go to this
picture. I think it's the best one.

572
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:16,720
» Uh one back. There we go. Um, so if you
drive past the hospital on Marshall

573
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:22,960
Street, you've seen it because it's
surrounded by orange barriers. Uh, the

574
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:28,640
reason that it's there is because
there's an incredible demand for MRI

575
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:34,720
services in Chester County. Uh,
particularly with uh some of the

576
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:40,160
hospitals closing, a lot of that uh
patient population is now served by

577
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:45,599
Chester County Hospital. In 2024, they
came to the township and got a temporary

578
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:52,000
permit to have these temporary MRI
facilities. While they started a search

579
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:57,680
for where to install them permanently,
um they did get one additional uh

580
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:03,680
extension of that temporary permit,
which is permitted under your permits

581
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:09,520
ordinance uh 84-67.
uh the staff can only approve one

582
00:43:06,319 --> 00:43:16,160
extension of the permit and the hospital
was unable to find the appropriate

583
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:21,599
location for these MRI facilities. Mr.
Flickinger can explain to you first of

584
00:43:19,119 --> 00:43:26,960
all the incredible use of this facility,
but also why it's not going in the

585
00:43:24,319 --> 00:43:33,760
hospital and why they're looking for an
appropriate place, a permanent home for

586
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:39,280
these facilities, likely um in a place
where they can be easily accessed by

587
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:46,240
oncology practices. MRIs are now used
traditionally with oncology practices.

588
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:51,119
Um, and so under your ordinance, because
your uh staff can only issue one

589
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,680
extension, we actually have to go to the
zoning hearing board and get a variance.

590
00:43:53,520 --> 00:44:01,760
And we're seeking a variance for two
more years. We hope the MRI facility

591
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:09,119
will not be there for the entire two
years. And we completely understand that

592
00:44:06,079 --> 00:44:14,960
um you know the limit of the extension
will be 2 years um for us to find

593
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:19,680
another home. So we're happy to answer
any questions you have.

594
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:23,520
» Thank you. Questions from the board.
>> I have a question. Why why could the

595
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,119
permit only be issued for one year and
then one year etc? Why couldn't it be a

596
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,599
permanent permit? Is it does it not meet
I mean you didn't get variances for this

597
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:33,280
did you?
>> No we didn't. We didn't. Why can't it be

598
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,160
considered a permanent for as long as
you need it to be there? I'm not

599
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:40,640
understanding that from a permit
perspective.

600
00:44:37,839 --> 00:44:44,480
» It's not a it's not a permanent
attachment to the building. Uh they

601
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:50,079
didn't even go through a variance
analysis for what it would take to, you

602
00:44:47,599 --> 00:44:52,400
know, build what is essentially an extra
room.

603
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:55,359
» I don't think they could have issued a
zoning permit if it didn't meet zoning

604
00:44:53,839 --> 00:44:57,119
requirements. So that's I'm very
confused by this application to be

605
00:44:56,720 --> 00:45:00,000
honest.
>> Well, you already obtained the various

606
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:03,520
» they have. [clears throat] No, she's
saying they did not. They don't have

607
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:06,560
variances. They just got a permit. And I
guess there's something in our language.

608
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:10,400
The zoning permit's only valid for one
year.

609
00:45:08,319 --> 00:45:14,240
» Temporary zoning permits are only valid
for one year. The zoning officer can

610
00:45:11,839 --> 00:45:19,599
extend it for one year to be on
temporary structures are designed to be

611
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:24,079
not temporary. So, not fixed or
permanent to the property. So Shel's

612
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:27,839
essentially reached the maximum level of
her authority under the zoning ordinance

613
00:45:26,079 --> 00:45:31,680
and they're still going there to go. I
guess what I'm asking is do we know if

614
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:34,800
that was to be considered more
permanent? And I know you're saying it

615
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:38,880
doesn't have a foundation, so it's not
necessarily a permanent structure, but

616
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:43,200
as far as a permitting, if it meets all
of our code requirements, why couldn't

617
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:46,160
it be considered a non-temporary permit?
Because what happens in two years, you

618
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,200
know, again, I don't want to speak for
the board. I don't know if you care

619
00:45:47,119 --> 00:45:54,000
about this being like that, but it just
seems administratively hassle for you to

620
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:57,280
have to do this. I'm just seeing if
there's a way if it if it otherwise

621
00:45:55,599 --> 00:46:00,640
beats zoning, why couldn't it be
considered a permanent permit?

622
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:06,319
» Well, is it a temporary structure?
>> It's a truck. So, yes, it's a it's like

623
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:14,240
a trailer. It's a temporary structure.
>> Uh it's it was never intended to be

624
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:18,800
permanent. And um I I haven't analyzed
this, but there are other requirements

625
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:23,119
that apply to it, including approvals
from the Pennsylvania State Department

626
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:28,079
of Health, which has not approved this
as a permanent installation at Chester

627
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:33,520
County Hospital. It will be approved
somewhere else. We have identified other

628
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:40,720
locations. We've looked at, you know,
the regular suspects for Fern Hill, some

629
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:46,560
of the other medical locations, but
uh this MRI is being used, I think, for

630
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:52,079
at least 100 MRIs a week. Um it's
basically 247 operation.

631
00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:56,400
It will still have really heavy
operation elsewhere, but it's not truly

632
00:46:54,319 --> 00:46:59,200
appropriate for the hospital because
>> it's going to stay in his truck. It's

633
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,760
going to stay in a truck or you're
looking.

634
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:08,960
» No, we're going to put it in a permanent
office allied with one of the likely one

635
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:14,079
of the oncology practices in the county
to make it more convenient for oncology

636
00:47:11,119 --> 00:47:19,920
patients. But it's not easy to find a
location where it's close to the

637
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:25,119
oncology providers and where we can also
find the appropriate staff to staff it

638
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:29,839
as long as possible. Um, part of the
reason it can operate continuously is

639
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:33,440
because it's at the hospital, but that's
not really the goal. The goal is to

640
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:39,359
serve the appropriate patient
population, which are the ones who are

641
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:43,760
going to see their oncologist. So,
uh, the hospital's been through a surge

642
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:48,560
again. Shane can provide more
information about that. We're confident

643
00:47:46,079 --> 00:47:54,000
we can do it within the next two years.
Frankly, having to do it in 2024 was a

644
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:58,560
little bit of a surprise, but it was
because of the incredible increased

645
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:04,319
demand because of the closing of other
medical medical facilities in our county

646
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:09,200
and in Delaware County. Uh, and frankly,
there's also increased demand. It wasn't

647
00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:13,920
used the way they're used today,
particularly for oncology.

648
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:18,240
Um, is there anything you'd want to add,
Chie? Yeah, I think you know when you

649
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:23,040
look at our demand, we've had
year-over-year growth. If you go for I

650
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:30,480
guess here, we've had year-over-year
growth. So, if you look in June of 2023,

651
00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:36,319
we did uh in that entire 12-month
period, 23,343

652
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:41,839
MRIs. In June of this year, we finished
at 29,728.

653
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:47,520
Um if you look at our data she mentioned
we can do 250 exams a month and right

654
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:53,280
now when you look at it even with this
expansion uh our third appointment out

655
00:48:51,359 --> 00:48:59,200
which is the industry standard of
essentially how you measure your

656
00:48:55,119 --> 00:49:07,839
scheduling uh for a noncontrast MRI it's
29 days and for a contrast it's 56.4.

657
00:49:03,839 --> 00:49:12,640
So we haven't made a dent. um it has had
um profound impacts on our oncology

658
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:18,480
population because MRI has become a a
standard uh and is really growing. Um so

659
00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:22,000
there's obviously other health systems
in the area building ambulatory

660
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:25,920
locations and that is where we have been
in our strategic planning process of

661
00:49:23,839 --> 00:49:30,800
figuring out where we're going. Uh but
we do have identified locations

662
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:37,440
potentially at Fern Hill uh and North
Hills which is also adjacent to keep it

663
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:41,040
in here. um plus others in the area. So,
we did go to the Department of Health,

664
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:46,480
they granted us three years, we're one
year into that um because they too from

665
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:50,319
all of the Pennsylvania Department of
Health guidelines have specific

666
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:54,319
guidelines. So, even the roof that you
saw here was largely from a patient

667
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:59,920
experience perspective. We were having
some um water issues when patients were

668
00:49:57,839 --> 00:50:05,280
walking out, but it's tied into our fire
systems and otherwise like that. So this

669
00:50:01,839 --> 00:50:10,160
is not an ideal situation. Um but we
have not had any issues and are fully

670
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:14,400
utilizing it. So we are very confident
certainly hope to not still be in this

671
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:18,319
space in two years. Um and we're not
looking for a scenario either where we

672
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:22,079
would get a new location and keep it.
We're going to keep moving forward.

673
00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:26,720
» If you have another facil or find
another facility within next year or

674
00:50:23,920 --> 00:50:32,319
two, will it also be 247 where the MRI
will be utilized for?

675
00:50:28,319 --> 00:50:36,800
» So that is very interesting. Um,
as much demand as there is, we have

676
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:43,119
actually added weekend hours at some of
our locations, but trying to hire people

677
00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:46,880
who want to work weekends and nights is
quite a feat. No matter how much money

678
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:51,440
you throw at them, but we have expanded
on weekends. We will continue to run the

679
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:55,920
hospital until 11:00 at night. We have
outpatients that come in until 11:00 at

680
00:50:53,760 --> 00:51:00,960
night. That will maintain. What we may
do for the community in some of those

681
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:06,240
things is there are lower end MRIs that
are quicker. Orthopedic MRIs are

682
00:51:03,839 --> 00:51:10,800
quicker. You can cram more of them in
which would free up capacity in the

683
00:51:08,000 --> 00:51:17,280
hospital. So, we're going to continue to
expand and we there's no plans to not be

684
00:51:14,079 --> 00:51:21,200
using the hospital until 11:00 at night,
but and we're continuing to look at we

685
00:51:19,119 --> 00:51:26,480
have expanded. Oxton has tremendous
demand. Uh we've also found that

686
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:32,000
patients who live in Axton will wait to
have their MRI in accent. Um so we have

687
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:37,760
expanded in different areas and continue
to do that but the limitation is um MRI

688
00:51:35,359 --> 00:51:43,680
technologists.
>> Has been any um accidents or safety

689
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:47,760
incidents near misses with ambulances or
you know people traffic in this general

690
00:51:45,599 --> 00:51:51,920
area since you had it in operation?
>> No, we have not. Um that was certainly a

691
00:51:50,319 --> 00:51:55,440
concern going in but we have not had any
issues with that.

692
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:59,200
» Okay. If you actually can when you get
into that unit you come out under that

693
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:03,599
uh overhang
>> you would actually you would come in the

694
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:08,400
back and so the door that comes out into
that is the radiology hallway. So you

695
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:13,040
would never actually go outside. There's
actually a door there as well on the

696
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:16,319
outside. So it's
>> like a little cubicle. And so you come

697
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,319
in through the hospital, you have
outpatient radiology, and you come in

698
00:52:18,240 --> 00:52:22,400
through a hallway. So you're not
reporting up through that.

699
00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:25,440
» Got it.
>> Yes. Thank you.

700
00:52:23,839 --> 00:52:29,760
» So I would actually be in favor of
supporting this um application and not

701
00:52:27,839 --> 00:52:34,960
remaining neutral. I think is incredibly
important. Everything you shared here

702
00:52:31,119 --> 00:52:38,559
tonight um is shocking. In fact, to hear
that there's such demand and that you

703
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:44,800
guys are having to work out of this
truck here. Um, so yeah, I would I would

704
00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:48,319
support supporting the application.
>> I remember when you came for this, I

705
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:51,440
think originally it was during COVID, I
believe, was when these hospitals were

706
00:52:49,839 --> 00:52:56,240
shutting down and we waved land
development and gave you some expedited

707
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:59,200
permitting or something. So sorry, I
don't remember the details.

708
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:03,359
» I don't
e

709
00:53:01,839 --> 00:53:06,240
» that was for an expansion of the
emergency room.

710
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:12,319
» Was this part of it though?
>> No, this came later. This wasn't it

711
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:14,079
started in 2024 when it became apparent
that

712
00:53:12,559 --> 00:53:17,200
» and this just went through Shelby. It
didn't come to you because it was just a

713
00:53:15,359 --> 00:53:21,359
temporary permit. That's
>> okay. That's what we that's what All

714
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:24,000
right. Well, actually made a point there
is what are the other board members

715
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,319
thoughts on that? You want to support
this application in front of the zoning

716
00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:29,440
hearing board?
>> Yes, I support this application. Well

717
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:32,240
needed.
>> I agree.

718
00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:36,160
» Okay. So, the majority of the board is
in favor of not being neutral on your

719
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:40,000
application. the zoning hearing board
but in favor of grant the zoning hearing

720
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:46,800
board granting your application. So we
can make that known to them.

721
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:50,240
» Yeah. J make a motion and your manager
to make a

722
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:53,599
» send a letter in support of it.
>> Okay. So let let's get a motion on the

723
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:57,520
table here. Ashley, you want to make a
motion?

724
00:53:54,240 --> 00:54:01,440
» Yes. I will make a motion to have Chris
send the zoning hearing board a letter

725
00:53:59,599 --> 00:54:05,599
indicating that the board of supervisors
supports this application.

726
00:54:03,839 --> 00:54:10,400
» Very good. Thank you. I will second
that. Is there any public comment or

727
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:12,640
questions on the motion?
>> Yes.

728
00:54:11,119 --> 00:54:17,760
» I wanted to thank you for your
perspective. I just wanted to comment

729
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:24,000
that I'm a a resident here from Colorado
and uh suffer from some pretty severe

730
00:54:20,559 --> 00:54:29,440
debilitating sciatica um as a result of
unfortunately struggling too much snow

731
00:54:26,079 --> 00:54:33,359
in a week there. And um having moved
here and trying to seek care for

732
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:38,640
sciatica, having gone down to Pet
Medicine in Reder about 3 weeks ago and

733
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:42,960
told the students I could get an MRI
because they can't give you any kind of

734
00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,359
treatment without their own MRI would be
the end of September. I ended up in

735
00:54:45,599 --> 00:54:53,040
Kennet Square and that was the earliest
I could find. And it is incredibly

736
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:58,000
debilitating to be waiting for MRIs for
what ultimately will be a diagnosis of

737
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:03,839
like a routine corticost injection in
your back. But it's I was shocked to

738
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:07,440
find out that that's that's the time
just

739
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:10,880
» thank you for your comment. Anyone else
with a question or comment?

740
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:17,440
» Okay, then we'll take a vote. All in
favor say I. I. Is there any opposition?

741
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:20,599
Hearing none passes 4.
>> I will

742
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:25,240
support the application.
>> Thanks Chris.

743
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:32,000
» Okay, we're on to agenda item number
seven which is discussion regarding a

744
00:55:29,839 --> 00:55:38,119
storm sewer pipe replacement project at
1237 1239 Strasport Road. Chris

745
00:55:39,440 --> 00:55:42,440
So,

746
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,319
I'll bring up an aerial rendering
momentarily.

747
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:55,760
So, before the board this evening is
discussion regarding a storm sewer pipe

748
00:55:52,319 --> 00:55:59,520
replacement at 1237 1239 Straburg Road
uh to provide some background

749
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:03,680
information. The owner of 1237 Strawburg
Road contacted the township about a

750
00:56:01,359 --> 00:56:08,079
sinkhole in her sidey yard. Uh we
provided an aerial outlining pipe

751
00:56:05,599 --> 00:56:14,160
location. Uh upon investigation, the
hole was roughly uh 2 feet by 2 ft wide

752
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:18,400
and 4t deep. Um and there was a piece of
plywood placed over it. Uh the township

753
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:23,200
did go out and place weighted barrels
over the plywood for safety reasons. Uh

754
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:27,119
since then, the sinkhole has widened and
additional safety precautions have been

755
00:56:24,799 --> 00:56:32,160
taken. Uh the hole is in alignment with
a storm inlet on Straburg Road, which is

756
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:36,559
a stateowned road. uh then to the back
of the residence yard entering a small

757
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:40,079
stream in the Boxeller neighborhood. Uh
Mark Burlami, our public works director,

758
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:44,480
reviewed the subdivision plan for that
area and it does not show a storm sewer

759
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:48,799
easement for this pipeline. Um as
followup, uh Mark contacted the

760
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:52,720
township's assistant [clears throat]
highway or the assistant highway manager

761
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:57,520
for this area with the Pennsylvania
Department of Transportation. Uh they

762
00:56:54,960 --> 00:57:01,920
videotaped the pipe which showed CMP
failure along the bottom but stated via

763
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:06,319
email that Pendot would not repair the
entire run and also would not consider a

764
00:57:04,079 --> 00:57:10,160
joint project with the township. They
did say that they would replace the

765
00:57:08,319 --> 00:57:15,280
storm grade if needed and authorized the
township to proceed with replacement if

766
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:19,119
desired. The inlet box has four pipes
entering from the southeast and west

767
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:23,760
directions all coming from the Pendot
rightway. The first 20 feet of pipe

768
00:57:21,839 --> 00:57:30,640
coming off the inlet box towards the
sinkhole is a 24 inch diameter HDP pipe

769
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:34,799
before transitioning to all CMP. In
reviewing the video, we did review a

770
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:39,200
video of the of the situation. It
appears that the CMP has completely

771
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:44,960
deteriorated as there's a large void
after exiting an HDP pipe. Um, we are

772
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:49,760
proposing a replacement of the pipe in
this location using the public works

773
00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:53,200
department staff. Uh, Mr. Berlami has
outlined

774
00:57:51,359 --> 00:58:00,240
has outlined the cost if the board were
to authorize that. The total estimated

775
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:05,680
cost would be $11,593
for the um for the material needed and

776
00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:12,079
would take approximately 2 to 3 weeks to
complete. Um it's not anticipated, but

777
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:16,720
if the township's excavator can't cannot
dig deep enough, we would need to rent a

778
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:20,400
larger one for $6,000.
Um outside of the actual material cost,

779
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:24,960
there would also need to be there would
also be an easement prepared. Um Carol

780
00:58:23,119 --> 00:58:31,040
Engineering has provided a scope of work
to prepare the necessary easement. Um

781
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:33,680
which would be at a cost of $4,68.
We have spoken with the property owners,

782
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:37,920
both of whom would [clears throat] be
amanable to granting an easement to the

783
00:58:35,599 --> 00:58:41,680
township. Um, and I want to let the
board know that the prices do not

784
00:58:39,839 --> 00:58:45,839
include the cost of repairing the
proposed plan set outlining the pipe

785
00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:49,599
design and erosion and sedimentation
controls. Um, and speaking with Shawn

786
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:53,119
Daniels at Carol Engineering, he said
that that would be fairly simple and

787
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:56,640
would probably take a day or two to
complete. Um, and our assistant public

788
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:59,760
works director, Mike Kakabo, is here
tonight to answer any questions that the

789
00:58:58,319 --> 00:59:04,760
board may have. And I will bring up the
aerial image that I referenced

790
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:04,760
momentarily.

791
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:19,119
So this is the image of both properties.
1237 Straussburg Road is indicated on is

792
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:23,119
indicated on the um on the right hand
side outlined in red. The pipe is

793
00:59:21,359 --> 00:59:27,040
outlined in green. As you can see, it
runs back and it discharges to the

794
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:32,160
stream area on the rear of the property.
The inlet boxes are the green rectangle

795
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:38,240
shown um and the inlet area is shown on
Straussburg Road. Um the lot the

796
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:42,880
property boundary is generally where the
pipe is. So it extends a little bit into

797
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:46,319
the area to be surveyed sends it a
little bit into the neighboring

798
00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:53,280
property.
>> So which portion does Pendot own?

799
00:59:49,839 --> 00:59:57,200
» They so they own the entire right of way
of Straburg Road. So essentially from

800
00:59:55,440 --> 01:00:01,520
this
right about where this inland box is

801
00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:05,599
like this white line here to this white
line here. So that's PennDOT's right

802
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:09,839
» and the rest is us.
>> Well, the rest is priv the rest is

803
01:00:07,359 --> 01:00:15,200
private property. But we've taken the
opinion that through guidance that if D

804
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:18,160
were to come were to come to the
township, it' ultimately say it's our

805
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:21,599
responsibility because it's taking
discharge from a public roadway and then

806
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:26,880
discharging it into a water in the
Commonwealth.

807
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:30,880
And where we've had issues with CMP pipe
failures or potential failures or we've

808
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:35,920
done lining projects, we've run lining
across in pipe that extends into private

809
01:00:33,680 --> 01:00:37,760
property as part of that repair.
Correct.

810
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:41,440
» That's correct.
>> He videoed the part of the pipe that

811
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:45,599
belongs to Pendot.
>> Correct. So we videoed Well, I believe

812
01:00:44,559 --> 01:00:48,319
Mike might correct me if I'm wrong.
Pendot did the video. Correct.

813
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:50,640
» They were there with us. We video
camera.

814
01:00:48,799 --> 01:00:54,079
» Okay. So we did it with Penn Dot along
with us. Okay.

815
01:00:52,079 --> 01:00:55,119
» Yes. in the pipe that's in there right
away.

816
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,640
» Correct.
>> And they're not paying anything about

817
01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,960
it.
>> And they're not paying for it. They

818
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:05,359
never Why are they allowed to do that?
>> Because they're pend

819
01:01:03,359 --> 01:01:08,000
letter they signed in 2008 that said any
of the drainage facilities and pend

820
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:13,599
roads is the township responsibility.
You have to be the permit. So they just

821
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:15,599
that regulates that.
>> No.

822
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:19,839
» No. It's uh
>> not then who regulates them

823
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:24,680
» and who you go to for that? pens will be
regulated, I would assume, by the state

824
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,680
legisl.

825
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:30,880
» So, is there any I mean, I don't want to
get into the weeds in this, but it's

826
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:35,200
crazy to me that PENDOT isn't
responsible for repairing their storm

827
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:38,400
pipe
>> or they're not

828
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:41,200
» not something that's
>> and they're not liable if it causes an

829
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,000
accident.
>> That's not what we're saying.

830
01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:46,240
» But would they be? I mean, I think that
they would. that there's sovereign

831
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,280
immunity and then there's exceptions to
sovereign immunity and whether or not a

832
01:01:47,599 --> 01:01:53,920
failed pipe that they knew about they
probably could be but it would have to

833
01:01:51,359 --> 01:01:57,680
be within the boundaries of the land
that they own.

834
01:01:55,520 --> 01:02:01,599
» It's a similar situation to the storm
water facilities that were installed in

835
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:07,599
the West Coast shopping center Pike uh
for the redevelopment that was done.

836
01:02:03,839 --> 01:02:11,280
They had to we had to sign off that for
them.

837
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:14,160
» Is it worth ever pushing back and saying
they're not going to change? Ashley,

838
01:02:12,559 --> 01:02:15,839
you're not the first municipality to try
to get

839
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:18,720
» I'm not saying we're the first, but I'm
saying that we should.

840
01:02:16,640 --> 01:02:22,240
» We have tried. We have tried on I have
tried on numerous occasions for numerous

841
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:25,359
municipal clients to get Pendot to take
responsibility for failing durish

842
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:28,960
credits within Pendot rights away. You
will not get them to change. You're

843
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:32,240
welcome to try again and you can go on
record.

844
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:38,079
» I just I don't I don't like accepting
those sorts of status quos.

845
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:41,760
I'm sorry. I just I I don't like that.
And I don't think that saying rolling

846
01:02:40,079 --> 01:02:46,240
over and saying, "Okay, well, if you're
not gonna pay for it, I guess without

847
01:02:43,839 --> 01:02:49,280
pushing back a little bit."
>> Yeah. Then you get the D that's going to

848
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:52,799
say the township, if you're allowing
private pipes to go through private

849
01:02:50,799 --> 01:02:56,079
property that comes from public road,
township, you're responsible as part of

850
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:58,640
your MS4 permit. That's what D is going
to tell you.

851
01:02:56,480 --> 01:03:02,799
» I know, but it's Penn's pipe that's
corroded. They're not going to tell you

852
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:08,079
it's pending.
>> Well, we don't go to the private lane.

853
01:03:05,680 --> 01:03:11,839
» That it's a question because we don't
the these subdivision plans were

854
01:03:09,839 --> 01:03:16,640
approved before anybody did what we do
now where we identify where the pipes

855
01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:19,520
are located, who owns it, and who's
responsible to maintain it. They didn't

856
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,119
do that when these subdivisions went in
place. So, I get these questions

857
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:26,480
literally weekly and they're like,
Kristen, who owns the pipe? I don't

858
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:29,520
know. Let's go back to the plan. Doesn't
say anything. So then we look at, okay,

859
01:03:27,839 --> 01:03:33,599
who owns the road where the pipe is?
Panda. Well, Panda say they own that

860
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:37,680
pipe? Probably not. It's now going
through a prior property owner who

861
01:03:35,280 --> 01:03:41,839
bought it not maybe with no knowledge
the pipe was there with nothing on a

862
01:03:39,839 --> 01:03:46,160
note on a deed or a subdivision plan
that says they're responsible. So then

863
01:03:43,599 --> 01:03:49,920
you go to the D and they'll say it's
part of your municipal storm sewer

864
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:54,480
system. It's collecting storm water from
inlets and public roads. Township, you

865
01:03:51,760 --> 01:03:57,920
are ultimately responsible. So I'm not
saying you can't go back to PNDOT. I

866
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,920
think that what you what what you're
gonna find is they're going to tell you

867
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:03,760
they're not going to do anything about
it. So then you have a property owner

868
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:08,000
who's having coming to you saying help
me. You know, it's a larger issue than a

869
01:04:06,319 --> 01:04:10,640
single private property owner can handle
and it's a policy decision. You guys

870
01:04:09,599 --> 01:04:15,440
have no
>> $17,000 problem that involves PenBBOT

871
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:18,480
and they're refusing to take any
responsibility for that. And I'm sorry.

872
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:21,920
I just think that that's wrong.
>> Hey, this may not be the last one.

873
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,920
» No, it's not the first one. It won't be
the last.

874
01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:27,039
» It's not It's not It's not the first
one. And I can tell you it will not be

875
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:32,640
the last one.
>> Just so I'm cleared by that,

876
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:36,799
» the this existing 24 in HDP pipe that
was put in, did Pend put that piece in

877
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:39,359
and then not fix the rest of the pipe?
>> They just fix what was in there right

878
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,079
away. They just put that
>> They did that recently.

879
01:04:40,799 --> 01:04:44,240
» I don't know if they did that recently.
>> I don't know when they did that.

880
01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:49,200
» I'm not sure when they replaced it, but
they did replace their first piece in

881
01:04:46,640 --> 01:04:53,839
there right away. Tied into the CNP. So
I'm not sure what the connection looks

882
01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:56,480
like there from the HTV to the CN. So,
>> so they replaced

883
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:59,039
» just what was in there right away. That
was it. Just some

884
01:04:58,079 --> 01:05:02,640
» When was that?
>> I don't I have to go back and check. I'm

885
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:06,960
not sure when they replaced it.
>> We've taken responsibility for their

886
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:09,680
talk to find out tomorrow when it was
replaced.

887
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:12,240
» Okay. Well, I think that's useful
information because if they've already

888
01:05:10,799 --> 01:05:15,520
taken responsibility of pipes that are
in their rightway, then why can't we

889
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:20,079
turn it around and say this is also in
your right way? At least rest of it.

890
01:05:18,559 --> 01:05:25,119
» No, I'm talking about their piece. I'm
just talking about their piece. So,

891
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:31,440
Mike, did they when they replaced their
their piece penda,

892
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:34,559
did they hook it into the non-existing
collapsed corrugated pipe?

893
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:38,720
» I believe they tried to make a
connection to the CF.

894
01:05:36,079 --> 01:05:41,520
» That's my point. Yeah. So, obviously it
failed because there's no pipe there to

895
01:05:40,799 --> 01:05:43,680
connect into.
>> Well, like I said, it's just totally

896
01:05:42,799 --> 01:05:47,280
corroded, right?
>> So, there's voids everywhere. There's a

897
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:51,839
huge thing on our property. So,
>> so it sounds like it would be our

898
01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:55,039
responsibility. They they replaced their
portion, but they couldn't have anything

899
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:57,200
to connect it to.
>> So, we don't know what the connection

900
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:00,000
looks like. We have to get in and see
what it looks like. We might, if we do

901
01:05:58,720 --> 01:06:03,200
get the project, just might rip out
their portion and reconnect because we

902
01:06:01,760 --> 01:06:05,359
might not make a watertight connection
on the box,

903
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:08,720
» right? The size is different.
>> I'm not sure what they did in there. So,

904
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:11,359
we get in.
>> Yeah.

905
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:13,680
» Well, it's only like 20 ft though that
section.

906
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,880
» Uh, I believe so. Yeah. 15 or 20 ft is
what this we call six that they found or

907
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:23,359
whatever.
>> Okay.

908
01:06:18,559 --> 01:06:27,680
So my couple of questions. So the um the
180 ft that's mentioned in the the note

909
01:06:25,200 --> 01:06:30,960
here from Chris that extends this from
the Stratsburg Road right away all the

910
01:06:29,599 --> 01:06:34,880
way through to the back of the property
>> to where it daylights. Yes. Correct.

911
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:38,480
» And that that is the existing run of CMP
that is in place that has failed.

912
01:06:36,960 --> 01:06:41,920
» Correct. It discharges it to the stream
back there.

913
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,400
» And what would the discharge point look
like at the stream bank? What would we

914
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,400
what are you proposing?
>> So that's what we need to figure out. I

915
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:50,400
would ask if we would put a head wall
back there or we just keep it coverage

916
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:53,680
and put rip wrap or river rock around it
and have it just daylight out there into

917
01:06:52,319 --> 01:06:56,880
the rip wrap and then into the creek
bed.

918
01:06:55,440 --> 01:07:00,640
» There's a lot of debris back there that
we have to maneuver around trees and

919
01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:05,039
stuff stumps and things like that. So we
have to clear a little area back there.

920
01:07:03,119 --> 01:07:08,240
» And where exactly is a discharge
effluent? uh right at the end of the

921
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:13,359
where the tree line is right in the
creek there behind valley where spray

922
01:07:10,799 --> 01:07:18,079
valley circle is the creek right between
there between those trees and then that

923
01:07:15,839 --> 01:07:23,039
outlets under Ellis Lane into like the
head wall that east co just replaced

924
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:25,520
maybe a couple years ago through Ellis
>> so this is the end

925
01:07:24,079 --> 01:07:29,359
» it's just daylight right there's no head
wall just the pipe comes out with the

926
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:34,079
coverage on top of it so the stream
there flows to the right through that

927
01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:37,760
wooded area right
>> down towards Ellis

928
01:07:35,839 --> 01:07:41,440
Yeah. And then in terms of Strasburg
Road, how can you just explain how many

929
01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:44,799
Chris, if you could go back to Strasburg
Road, could you explain how many inlets

930
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:47,680
feed into that? You identified the three
on here, but you said there's there's

931
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:51,200
four connections in [music] total.
>> So, yeah. So, they're in line with

932
01:07:49,680 --> 01:07:55,520
there's a pipe that runs under the
resident's driveway to the uh box in

933
01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:58,319
question. So, I believe there's like an
old swale there. So, there's a pipe

934
01:07:56,720 --> 01:08:01,839
buried there that I believe picks up the
ground water and then that pipe bundles

935
01:08:00,079 --> 01:08:04,960
it into the box here. Then, it goes out
the stream.

936
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:09,520
» Okay. So that's to the west of that.
>> Yes. That's correct. That pipe runs

937
01:08:07,359 --> 01:08:12,799
under that driveway there, which would
probably be looking at this ending

938
01:08:11,039 --> 01:08:18,560
that's right away as well. So
>> So would the homeowner be responsible

939
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:22,400
for the lateral, the cost for the
lateral to be put in to connect to the

940
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:26,000
main just like we do with the sewer?
>> No, it's not a sewer. It's just there's

941
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:27,759
no main. There's no
>> So it's all one pipe.

942
01:08:26,719 --> 01:08:31,600
» It's just all pipes. It's just
connection of pipes.

943
01:08:29,600 --> 01:08:35,520
» I don't know where Pendock fixed the
pipe. Is it was it

944
01:08:34,319 --> 01:08:39,679
record?
>> It's generally if I'm looking at

945
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:44,679
» do your cursor where they fixed it.
>> I'm looking at what Mike provided.

946
01:08:46,239 --> 01:08:53,600
» I think it's generally my correct is
generally in this area. Correct.

947
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:57,199
» So right from Yeah. from the storm inlet
from the road pretty much to their right

948
01:08:55,679 --> 01:09:00,480
away wherever they ended. However much
pipe they pulled out of there. I'm not

949
01:08:58,319 --> 01:09:04,080
sure how much how long that pipe run was
that they pulled out. I can verify.

950
01:09:02,239 --> 01:09:07,279
» They went underneath the road.
>> They went from Can you do

951
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:10,799
» just from the box? Just from the box out
to the to the existing CNP.

952
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:14,560
» No, right. I think it's right here at
the tour property was the right way.

953
01:09:12,480 --> 01:09:17,679
» From their box. Yeah.
>> To Yeah. From their rightway. So, it's

954
01:09:15,839 --> 01:09:21,319
only like 15 ft probably from the inlet
box that they replaced.

955
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:30,159
» Well, that was nice of them.
>> Mike, what did you also in this quot you

956
01:09:28,159 --> 01:09:33,279
have a driveway replacement? Partial
driveway replacement. might be

957
01:09:31,440 --> 01:09:36,480
necessary. What What's that about?
>> So, where you see the car sitting where

958
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:40,159
they have like a jut out there on the
existing driveway. Uh we would need to

959
01:09:38,640 --> 01:09:43,920
obviously get the excavator in there if
we were digging. So, we might have to

960
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,960
rip up their
>> I guess it's just I guess it's just a

961
01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:50,560
gravel drive. I haven't been down there,
but I believe it's a gravel driveway

962
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:55,319
that we might just have to sit on top of
and dig up and prepare when we're done.

963
01:09:56,000 --> 01:10:06,920
» Other questions from the board?
So what's the ask here tonight?

964
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:06,920
So based on the cost estimates

965
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:18,440
11 the 11,000 plus the six plus the
4,000 for engineering plus some time

966
01:10:14,719 --> 01:10:18,440
materials you're looking

967
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:28,080
» plus cost to repair
>> plus yeah um if the board would

968
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:30,400
authorize $25,000 I think that could
cover

969
01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:40,400
I just, you know, to Ash's point, do you
try to go to your state reps and learn

970
01:10:38,640 --> 01:10:44,080
the situation and condition and say,
especially in situations where they fix

971
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:48,000
a pipe, but then just let it go into a
pipe that's corroded. What was the point

972
01:10:45,920 --> 01:10:50,960
of that? All it was was to get it off of
their rightway, say, "Okay, now it's no

973
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:53,679
longer on our problem. It's on your
private property. You deal with it."

974
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:56,880
» Well, that's consistent with how you
described pendway.

975
01:10:55,600 --> 01:10:59,760
They'll fix it. It's not there right
away. It's on someone else.

976
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:04,719
» It is. But yeah,
>> I think Kristen raises a good point that

977
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:09,120
if we put pressure through our state
senator and state representative, then

978
01:11:06,960 --> 01:11:12,080
maybe that could help with the broader
situation.

979
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:16,320
» And you're not proposing to wait until
that happens, are you? You're you're

980
01:11:13,440 --> 01:11:19,040
proposing to go to your legislator, pay
for this, and then go to your

981
01:11:17,440 --> 01:11:21,120
legislators for reimbursement. Is that
correct?

982
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:25,280
» Well, no, not go for reimbursement. just
to explain if we get reimbured that

983
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:28,480
would be fantastic but try and get them
because like I said this is not going to

984
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:31,360
be the last one of these situations that
we run into.

985
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:34,640
» No but I I could see that taking years
also and don't want to address this

986
01:11:33,520 --> 01:11:37,760
problem now.
>> Yes.

987
01:11:36,719 --> 01:11:39,840
Proceed with that option
>> option later.

988
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:44,960
» The problem is it's not historical
records to identify who put the pipe in.

989
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:47,840
» Like I'm curious did the pipe come in
when the road was built? Did the pipe

990
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:52,159
come in when homes were built? Like who
would have put the pipe in?

991
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:56,159
» I know. But cannot implicitly accepted
some responsibility for the maintenance

992
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:58,159
of this pipe or performing maintenance
on the pipe

993
01:11:57,199 --> 01:12:02,560
» within it right away
>> within it. Well, no.

994
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:05,040
» I think I think the extent of the limits
of what they did sounds like it was

995
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,840
within
>> it was on their property.

996
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:11,120
» Yeah. I thought that that was just their
rightway right there.

997
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:14,640
» Yeah, this is their rightway and I
thought it was beyond that.

998
01:12:12,239 --> 01:12:16,960
» No, it's generally partway but not the
right way.

999
01:12:15,120 --> 01:12:20,880
» It's probably 33 ft is the roadway. It's
probably 16 and 12. Is that line over?

1000
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:28,000
Is the right way?
>> So generally generally Tesco views the

1001
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:34,960
white lines here try to mirror the right
ofway boundary lines. Um so their right

1002
01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:39,040
of way essentially runs these two white
lines here.

1003
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:43,440
» I just rely upon a chesco map.
>> I don't think that penot I don't think

1004
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:47,199
that penot can now disclaim
that pipe. I think they've already

1005
01:12:45,520 --> 01:12:52,960
accepted responsibility for it and I
think it is worth pushing back on PENDOT

1006
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:56,000
and yeah looping in our our legislators.
>> Yeah, I respectfully disagree that

1007
01:12:54,719 --> 01:13:00,239
PEDOT's going to say they've done
anything other than fix what was in

1008
01:12:57,440 --> 01:13:04,640
their rideway. 20 foot se 15T section of
HDP pipe is the standard

1009
01:13:03,120 --> 01:13:09,440
to a private property. They were helping
the private property out. But isn't the

1010
01:13:06,719 --> 01:13:15,120
pipe in their rightway still
>> needing repair?

1011
01:13:10,719 --> 01:13:18,159
» No it doesn't stop. Well, like I don't
want to put words in your mouth, but you

1012
01:13:16,560 --> 01:13:20,159
said that you're not sure about the
connection point. So, we may have to

1013
01:13:19,440 --> 01:13:23,760
replace that.
>> We're not sure till we get in there. I'm

1014
01:13:21,440 --> 01:13:29,520
not sure what they made to the box to
the CN pipe typically like

1015
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:33,199
grid to connect, which we don't want to
do because it's not sealed up.

1016
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:37,280
» It sounds like we need more information
on exactly what I have to figure out

1017
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:40,000
what Pend did, when they did it,
>> figure out the section that they

1018
01:13:38,480 --> 01:13:42,719
replaced. So, I can get that to you
tomorrow.

1019
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:47,440
» We need to address this problem. I'm not
saying that we let this carry on

1020
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:52,960
forever, but you know, so I don't know.
>> So what information we requesting? Like

1021
01:13:50,719 --> 01:13:56,080
» where the wipers replaced
>> do

1022
01:13:54,480 --> 01:13:59,920
plans? Do they have plans that showed
the work that they did?

1023
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:02,480
» Yeah. Public records.
>> We'll find it. I'll do some digging

1024
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:06,080
tomorrow.
>> What did the CP?

1025
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,239
» Well, the CMP was probably put in when
the subdivision was done that created

1026
01:14:07,600 --> 01:14:13,280
those lots.
>> So what was the subdivision?

1027
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:15,199
We looked at the subdivision plan. You
guys reached out to me about

1028
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:18,640
» in like the 80s,
>> I think. So,

1029
01:14:17,326 --> 01:14:20,800
[clears throat]
plans

1030
01:14:19,360 --> 01:14:25,280
» and kind of what Kristen was saying,
unfortunately, the subdivision plans

1031
01:14:22,239 --> 01:14:28,320
that were done prior were not as
detailed as they are now.

1032
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:30,400
» They didn't even show they didn't even
show easements.

1033
01:14:29,440 --> 01:14:35,120
» Correct.
>> Or pipers for that matter.

1034
01:14:33,440 --> 01:14:39,360
» I mean, so the question is what do we
do? What is the desire of the board as

1035
01:14:37,360 --> 01:14:43,840
it stands with this current situation? I
totally understand. you know, talking to

1036
01:14:41,120 --> 01:14:48,640
our state legislators relating to and
but we do have a situation right now

1037
01:14:45,600 --> 01:14:53,320
with a sinkhole on this property and
looking to do something with it.

1038
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:58,239
» Well, I think we should fix the
sinkhole. I mean, it's it's a safety

1039
01:14:56,560 --> 01:15:02,800
hazard. You know, you've got people who
could get seriously hurt with it. I know

1040
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:06,000
it's on private property, but you know,
this is in a kind of total gray area

1041
01:15:04,800 --> 01:15:09,760
like a lot of these other things to
Kristen's point where no one's going to

1042
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:14,239
take responsibility for this. you know,
it's coming off a public roadway is the

1043
01:15:11,679 --> 01:15:17,840
where the discharge comes from. So, I
think, you know, it's okay to ask to get

1044
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:20,400
more information, but you're going to
get information that basically says,

1045
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:23,280
"Look, we fixed it on this date. We made
the best connection we could to the box

1046
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:26,159
and we put the standard piece of pipe
in. That's it. That's the kind of answer

1047
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:29,360
you're going to get, I think." And then
you we're right back here in two weeks

1048
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:34,080
saying, "Okay, we're ready to approve
it." So, I don't feel there's going to

1049
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:38,159
be any different outcome from other than
that. And since I feel it needs to be

1050
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:42,080
addressed, I would be supportive of
trying to move this forward tonight. Do

1051
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,760
other members of the board feel that way
or not?

1052
01:15:42,719 --> 01:15:47,280
» I do.
>> I'll make a motion.

1053
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,760
» Tina, that's your view.
>> Yes, I think we should proceed tonight

1054
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:56,080
from a safety standpoint.
>> Okay. So, for a board member to make a

1055
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:02,320
motion to authorize
uh storm sewer pipe replacement project

1056
01:15:58,880 --> 01:16:06,080
at 1237 1230 road in a not to exceed
amount of 25

1057
01:16:04,560 --> 01:16:08,800
» $25,000.
>> So, I'll make that motion.

1058
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:11,120
» Thank you. Is there a second?
>> I'll second.

1059
01:16:09,679 --> 01:16:14,400
» Okay.
>> We'll still want the answer to the

1060
01:16:12,480 --> 01:16:17,600
question, Mike. But sounds like we're
willing to move forward with it. So,

1061
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:22,880
we'll we'll take a vote here in a
minute. Uh any public comments or

1062
01:16:20,000 --> 01:16:28,159
questions on the motion?
>> Okay, then we'll take a vote. All in

1063
01:16:24,239 --> 01:16:32,520
favor say I. I. There. Any opposition
hearing? None. The motion passes 40.

1064
01:16:34,239 --> 01:16:41,520
All right. Thank you, Mike. We
appreciate it. And uh good luck getting

1065
01:16:37,440 --> 01:16:44,880
some more information on it.
>> Please share it with Chris and the board

1066
01:16:43,120 --> 01:16:49,840
when you when you get the answers.
>> Thanks.

1067
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:53,360
» Okay. Agenda item number eight is
discussion regarding a proposal from the

1068
01:16:51,679 --> 01:16:57,520
sustainability advisory committee for
enhancement to the entrance to the West

1069
01:16:54,800 --> 01:17:01,199
Coast Community Park.
>> Chris, uh Mr. Chairman, before the board

1070
01:16:59,679 --> 01:17:04,320
this evening is a proposal from the
sustainability

1071
01:17:02,719 --> 01:17:08,000
advisory committee to undertake the
native planting enhancement to the

1072
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:12,080
entrance of West Ocean Community Park.
Uh the project would also include a rain

1073
01:17:09,840 --> 01:17:16,719
garden installation near the entrance.
Uh Nick uh Nick Daniela from the

1074
01:17:14,960 --> 01:17:22,000
sustainability advisory committee has
prepared exhibits and a plant list for

1075
01:17:18,400 --> 01:17:25,600
the board's consideration. Um please be
advised that Mr. Dell presented this

1076
01:17:23,760 --> 01:17:28,800
plan to the park and recreation board at
their meeting in June who unanimously

1077
01:17:27,280 --> 01:17:31,760
voted to recommend the project.
Additionally, he's worked with our

1078
01:17:30,239 --> 01:17:36,000
public works director and assistant
public works director, both of whom

1079
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:38,880
support the project. If approved by the
board, the plan would be to complete the

1080
01:17:37,440 --> 01:17:42,239
installation in the fall using the
public works department staff and I will

1081
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:46,719
bring up the plans momentarily that
we're do have representatives. We do

1082
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:50,080
have Nick, Dorothy, and Ryan from the
sustainability advisory here this

1083
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:53,840
evening to answer any questions that the
board may have.

1084
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:57,760
» Great. And I believe that the total
plant material cost and correct me if

1085
01:17:55,440 --> 01:18:02,159
I'm wrong was $2,400. Is that correct?
>> Generally, yeah. And based off other

1086
01:18:00,080 --> 01:18:08,080
projects, the building pricing from
those, but could fluctuate slightly.

1087
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:12,159
» So, this this is the plan for the
entrance area. And I'll note that when

1088
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:16,000
they reviewed this, Mark specifically
liked this plan because of the low

1089
01:18:13,760 --> 01:18:19,679
maintenance options that were installed.
Um, so this is what the plan would look

1090
01:18:17,760 --> 01:18:22,800
like for the entrance area. And then
Nick, if you want to highlight anything

1091
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:25,920
or go over anything, then I'll bring up
the rain garden plan.

1092
01:18:24,400 --> 01:18:29,440
» Uh, it's pretty straightforward. I mean,
it's all native plants, so obviously

1093
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:32,800
ecologically beneficial versus what's
there currently. Um, also help with

1094
01:18:32,779 --> 01:18:38,560
» [clears throat]
>> erosion in that area. And, um, we made

1095
01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:43,120
sure to keep plants near the entrance
way short for uh, for sight paths for

1096
01:18:41,679 --> 01:18:46,560
people coming going coming out of there,
being able to turn. Yeah, I think

1097
01:18:44,560 --> 01:18:51,360
everything in this plant should stay
around 3 ft or less. So, it shouldn't

1098
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:55,199
obstruct drivers as they're going out to
uh onto the road there.

1099
01:18:53,440 --> 01:18:59,199
» Is there is there high maintenance on
these this plan?

1100
01:18:56,880 --> 01:19:03,840
» So, all these plants will will fill in
pretty good, too. Um but yeah, it'll be

1101
01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:06,239
pretty low maintenance. They'll be a
tiny bit initially just installing

1102
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,520
everything.
>> With the native plants, it's better to

1103
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:13,360
kind of leave them untouched all year.
They'll produce seeds. Birds will come

1104
01:19:11,199 --> 01:19:16,880
in the winter time, eat them. Um, from a
maintenance perspective, if anything,

1105
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:23,120
come in the spring, cut everything down
to the ground and let it regrow.

1106
01:19:19,520 --> 01:19:26,500
» And the 25 thou 2500, were we looking to
take that out of the SEC over the

1107
01:19:25,199 --> 01:19:29,040
general fund? Oh, you were.
[clears throat] Okay.

1108
01:19:27,280 --> 01:19:31,679
» So, I think there's like 5,000 and that,
wasn't there?

1109
01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:36,480
» Something around there. So, like I said,
it's flexible little bit. Yeah, we can

1110
01:19:34,320 --> 01:19:41,679
make it if we need to.
>> So, you said to the post, you won't need

1111
01:19:38,719 --> 01:19:46,000
to mulge this area. have grown in and
spreads together so well they won't need

1112
01:19:44,159 --> 01:19:48,560
much weeding maintenance do you think?
>> Yeah, I mean there's going to be a

1113
01:19:46,960 --> 01:19:51,280
probably a tiny bit initially especially
if we're digging up what's there.

1114
01:19:49,920 --> 01:19:54,800
There's a decent amount of weeds there
currently. So there's probably some weed

1115
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:58,239
seeds in seed bankank that once we
disturb that'll come up a little bit but

1116
01:19:56,800 --> 01:20:01,760
it should be pretty minimal and after
the first year um should be just about

1117
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:05,679
nothing. So
>> do you need to fortify the soil there

1118
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:10,320
with some fresh soil you think?
>> Nope. The stuff likes like like Yeah. If

1119
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:14,800
you get too good of soil, the stuff gets
a little little floppy. So yeah, crappy

1120
01:20:13,040 --> 01:20:20,640
soil.
>> Is the S gonna be planting though?

1121
01:20:17,280 --> 01:20:24,880
» Uh in partnership with public works. So
we've been just Yeah, we've discussed

1122
01:20:22,159 --> 01:20:29,920
it. So we'll partnership with it. Yeah,
we'll get it done this fall. everybody's

1123
01:20:28,159 --> 01:20:36,800
» I presume this is consistent with the
park's strategic plan in terms of adding

1124
01:20:33,199 --> 01:20:39,840
some native species and some some beds
etc to the community park.

1125
01:20:38,560 --> 01:20:43,440
» Yeah. And it's good too. I mean
obviously you know get hopefully some

1126
01:20:42,159 --> 01:20:47,679
public interaction with that kind of
thing too and maybe you get people plant

1127
01:20:46,239 --> 01:20:51,120
some of those things in their own yards
too. So

1128
01:20:49,120 --> 01:20:53,520
» you have any signage as to what it is so
that people can look at it and say oh

1129
01:20:52,719 --> 01:20:56,239
that's what that
>> we certainly can. Yeah. And there's a

1130
01:20:55,040 --> 01:20:59,520
number of manufacturers that make
standard ones and we can always run

1131
01:20:57,600 --> 01:21:02,960
those by the wall as well. Um, but
they're pretty straightforward ones. You

1132
01:21:00,880 --> 01:21:06,400
can get just put them on something nice.
You not just stick them in the ground,

1133
01:21:04,159 --> 01:21:09,920
but you can get like a little wood post
form or something like that. But those

1134
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:14,760
are pretty easily accessible.
>> Excellent. And I'll bring up the rain.

1135
01:21:24,000 --> 01:21:32,960
So these are the rain garden plans. So
our would be off of the uh parking lot.

1136
01:21:30,000 --> 01:21:36,719
» Yeah. So the basis behind this is um so
I actually walk up the park every day at

1137
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:41,440
lunch cuz I work nearby and anytime it
rains a ton of water collects and just

1138
01:21:39,840 --> 01:21:46,560
sits in the middle of the grass area
here. It's just like lawn grass that the

1139
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:49,920
water is not infiltrating at all. Um and
there's actually a notch in the curve

1140
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:54,560
there where the parking lot meets the
grass area where it just washes the soil

1141
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:59,440
out. You can actually see it from the
Earth view. So, we wouldn't try to

1142
01:21:56,800 --> 01:22:04,159
mitigate any erosion coming out there.
>> Is it like is it like this area here?

1143
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:08,080
» No. Well, I like a scoured channel.
>> I drew over it with this, but there's a

1144
01:22:06,639 --> 01:22:12,159
channel that runs right through from
that outlet pipe. Um, goes straight

1145
01:22:10,880 --> 01:22:16,719
towards the parking lot. You can
actually see like you pull it up, you'll

1146
01:22:13,760 --> 01:22:19,679
see soil in the parking lot coming from
there. So, we want to make sure that

1147
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:23,719
water goes down back into the ground
instead of into the parking lot.

1148
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:29,760
And again, we've worked with with public
works on this and gone over what's going

1149
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:34,960
to be required. Um, so it'll be another
joint project between the two of us.

1150
01:22:33,040 --> 01:22:40,000
» Is there any chance down the line of
expanding that far?

1151
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:44,400
» Sure. Yeah. I mean, this is just like an
initial plan. Um, and it should take

1152
01:22:42,320 --> 01:22:46,719
care of essentially the erosion issue
that we're having, but if we

1153
01:22:45,620 --> 01:22:51,440
[clears throat] want to expand this,
it's essentially infinite possibilities

1154
01:22:49,040 --> 01:22:56,520
in that area. just pawn grass that we
can I'd be more than happy to rip that

1155
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:56,520
up.

1156
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:02,560
» The uh the river birds you planning to
put in, how how tall is a 5 gallon

1157
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:05,920
river?
>> Um generally about 5 to 6 feet tall. Um

1158
01:23:05,262 --> 01:23:10,400
[clears throat]
again depend on availability

1159
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:12,880
» availability and like if we had to have
a little extra money you can always get

1160
01:23:11,679 --> 01:23:15,920
something a little bit more develop but
that's a good size to put in. Don't put

1161
01:23:14,719 --> 01:23:19,199
anything too big or else
>> let's get something that's substantive

1162
01:23:17,360 --> 01:23:22,400
to start with and not just a sapling
that takes 20 years to get going.

1163
01:23:21,199 --> 01:23:26,239
» Yeah, this is going to be something
where it's going to start doing it job

1164
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:32,480
on day one. So, a river birch too will
grow multiple feet a year in ideal

1165
01:23:28,560 --> 01:23:36,000
conditions and being in a storm basin is
it can get outside of being next to a

1166
01:23:34,400 --> 01:23:39,199
creek. So, it should shoot up pretty
quickly once it starts uh once its roots

1167
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:44,880
are established.
>> Is there any water sources that's needed

1168
01:23:41,679 --> 01:23:48,000
» to water the plants initially? snow.
>> If we have a drought in the fall, we

1169
01:23:46,320 --> 01:23:51,679
might need to have public works come and
hose them down. But the issue, well, the

1170
01:23:50,320 --> 01:23:54,960
thing is with this area because it
collects so much water and there's a so

1171
01:23:53,600 --> 01:23:58,320
where the beginning of it is on the
bottom right there, that's the outlet

1172
01:23:56,560 --> 01:24:01,199
drain that comes from the opposite side
of the park, there's a ton of water that

1173
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:05,520
runs through there. So, as long as we're
getting like even a little bit of rain

1174
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:08,800
within a month or month and a half of
planting that [clears throat] would be

1175
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:13,920
fine. So, it would have to have a pretty
long drought for it to become an issue

1176
01:24:10,719 --> 01:24:17,520
initially. Then once and same thing with
the other with the other plantings. I

1177
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:21,040
mean all these plants are extremely
drought toler. I mean they're native to

1178
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:23,920
these areas. So they don't they're not
going to require any watering or

1179
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:28,320
anything. Just exhaust fish.
>> Super plant everything. No water. No

1180
01:24:26,719 --> 01:24:31,360
nothing. It's good.
>> Yeah. I I burchches on my property.

1181
01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:35,840
They're really good plant. [snorts]
They're fantastic tree. The one downside

1182
01:24:33,440 --> 01:24:39,040
is they shed branches kind of year
round.

1183
01:24:37,440 --> 01:24:44,560
» Well, the nice thing about this area is
not really an area where people go. Um,

1184
01:24:42,639 --> 01:24:48,239
so I I don't really see any kind of like
safety issues with that. I mean, we can

1185
01:24:46,239 --> 01:24:50,960
always put differences.
>> It's not a safety issue. It's just that

1186
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:54,320
that you need to clean you need to clean
it up every now and then because it's

1187
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:57,600
just sewing branches on the ground.
There's little, you know.

1188
01:24:55,679 --> 01:25:02,639
» Yeah. I mean, that's we can talk with
Mike about that. Um, I mean, it should

1189
01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:05,199
be part of routine maintenance.
>> Yeah. I don't want to get too deep in

1190
01:25:03,679 --> 01:25:09,520
the woods, but ecologically fallen
branches are extremely important for for

1191
01:25:07,199 --> 01:25:14,000
a lot of insects who use dead wood. Um,
so we can maybe so they even removing

1192
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:17,360
those maybe put them keep them in the
area.

1193
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:19,520
» Yeah. And that'll help help the soil as
well. So,

1194
01:25:18,159 --> 01:25:22,159
» very good.
>> All right. Sounds like a great project

1195
01:25:20,800 --> 01:25:24,960
to me. Is there any other questions from
the board?

1196
01:25:22,880 --> 01:25:28,239
» I just want to see Mike, do you have any
thoughts, comments, questions?

1197
01:25:26,560 --> 01:25:31,520
» Uh, no. Just I guess like uh are you
guys going to be picking up the plant

1198
01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:34,560
material or are they tagging everything?
Are they going to deliver?

1199
01:25:32,719 --> 01:25:38,320
» So, um, the way I've done this in the
past is I'll I'll put I can put the

1200
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:41,199
order in. have everything ready to be
picked up and then if you guys just have

1201
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:45,280
like a rack truck or a box truck or
something like that or

1202
01:25:43,440 --> 01:25:49,760
» they can also deliver it to the site.
>> Yeah. Well, we can talk about that and

1203
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:52,960
tomorrow's good too. I forgot to
>> Yes.

1204
01:25:51,120 --> 01:25:55,520
» But regardless, we'll be able to get
them there.

1205
01:25:53,440 --> 01:25:58,639
» Okay. We can figure everything out like
the delivery of the river rock, right?

1206
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,080
Everything. Okay.
>> Yep.

1207
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:03,520
» Yep.
>> Yeah. We're good.

1208
01:26:01,520 --> 01:26:09,760
» Okay. So, I'm looking for a board member
to make a motion to uh approve the

1209
01:26:06,719 --> 01:26:14,400
proposal from the SACE for the plant
enhancements to the entrance to West

1210
01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:19,440
Coast Community Park in a not to exceed
amount of 2500.

1211
01:26:17,760 --> 01:26:21,760
» I'll make that motion.
>> Is there a second?

1212
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:26,320
» Second.
>> Thank you, May. Any public comments or

1213
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:29,679
questions? Yes. I just wanted to know if
you considered,

1214
01:26:28,080 --> 01:26:33,600
you know, something with more seasoned
portion of interest like siduish like it

1215
01:26:32,400 --> 01:26:38,239
or something like that that you have a
lot of

1216
01:26:34,320 --> 01:26:42,719
» so yeah so in the back part of that we
have proposed a red wig dogwood

1217
01:26:40,639 --> 01:26:46,960
» um so there's your four season shrub
there we have it as an option but we

1218
01:26:44,880 --> 01:26:51,120
also could do button bush we could do
cla we can do all sorts of

1219
01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:56,400
» maybe for f future projects just to save
money I was thinking if you had a

1220
01:26:52,960 --> 01:27:00,480
relationship with sport or Longwood or
Shand Clear. Um, you know, they had

1221
01:26:58,880 --> 01:27:05,199
enormous
green houses. I mean, Sworthmore has

1222
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:13,199
enormous rain garden. Longwood has, you
know, unable amount of plants and, uh,

1223
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:17,679
Shanta literally grows my plants. Um,
and I'm just wondering if in the future

1224
01:27:15,040 --> 01:27:22,080
you could establish a relationship with
them since this is a public project and

1225
01:27:20,480 --> 01:27:24,960
you know
>> especially if there's like an

1226
01:27:23,120 --> 01:27:30,800
educational component where you're like
this is a butterfly garden or rainwater

1227
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:36,960
garden. Um, and in in exchange for
educating the communities um you know

1228
01:27:33,920 --> 01:27:42,330
most of these places have an incredible
educational aspect to their to their

1229
01:27:39,199 --> 01:27:46,239
missions. They would donate to
[clears throat] I can't imagine that in

1230
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:50,719
this area where you have so many gardens
Morris and Swathmore and Jenkins and you

1231
01:27:49,199 --> 01:27:53,760
know
>> No, that's a good point. In fact,

1232
01:27:52,000 --> 01:27:57,280
» I think some contributions.
>> I think one of the earlier projects that

1233
01:27:55,440 --> 01:28:03,440
the SACE did
>> very very early on we got um a local

1234
01:28:00,480 --> 01:28:06,560
nursery to to provide a few trees for us
to use. So that's a really good idea.

1235
01:28:04,800 --> 01:28:12,560
So, for example, like if you get away
from the birch as to your point of they

1236
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:17,760
they shed branches constantly. If you
went after like Joe Wilson Magnolia,

1237
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:21,440
Longwood has probably hundreds of those.
I can't imagine how many they have in

1238
01:28:19,440 --> 01:28:24,560
their green houses. You know, they grow
quickly. They love water. They're four

1239
01:28:23,199 --> 01:28:28,080
seasons in Tristan. They bloom in the
summer, etc., etc., you know. So, I'm

1240
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:32,639
just saying it's I think you have
options because of just the wealth of

1241
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:35,520
horicultural
centers in this area.

1242
01:28:33,920 --> 01:28:40,239
» Yeah. Great point. So, I'm just going to
look to the SEC members to take that

1243
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:43,120
suggestion on board and decide how you
might want to reach out and do that for

1244
01:28:42,159 --> 01:28:47,840
future projects.
>> Yeah, there's normal organizations like

1245
01:28:45,040 --> 01:28:50,320
PA invasive replace it program where if
you remove invasive plants, which is

1246
01:28:49,199 --> 01:28:55,600
what we're going to be doing at these
places and you submit them and you get

1247
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:58,560
free trees out of it. Um, the reason why
I have this schedule the way I do is

1248
01:28:57,360 --> 01:29:02,639
just to make sure that what we're
putting there is substantial. A lot of

1249
01:29:00,159 --> 01:29:05,280
the things you get donated are, like you
were saying, saplings and things like

1250
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:08,320
that, which would be great for other
parts of the site, but I want to make

1251
01:29:06,719 --> 01:29:12,080
sure that when we're getting this in,
it's a statement, especially and it's

1252
01:29:10,560 --> 01:29:14,560
ready to go. So,
>> any budget has you have a budget for it.

1253
01:29:14,239 --> 01:29:18,880
So,
>> correct. Might as well use it. But yeah,

1254
01:29:16,719 --> 01:29:21,280
for sure. I mean, free plan would be
great.

1255
01:29:19,760 --> 01:29:24,560
» Thank you. Is there any other comments
for questions?

1256
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:30,800
» Okay, then we'll take a vote. All in
favor say I. I. Is there any opposition?

1257
01:29:27,440 --> 01:29:36,480
Hearing none. Motion passes 4 Z. Agenda
item number nine is

1258
01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:42,252
discussion and possible approval of a
conservatorship petition for 726 East

1259
01:29:39,360 --> 01:29:42,252
Gay Street. [clears throat]

1260
01:29:43,600 --> 01:29:48,080
» East or west?
>> Uh it's

1261
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,080
east, right?
>> Yes, it is East Gay Street.

1262
01:29:49,679 --> 01:29:52,639
» Thank you.
>> That was that was my error on the

1263
01:29:51,679 --> 01:29:56,880
initial.
>> Okay. So before the board of supervisors

1264
01:29:55,360 --> 01:30:02,239
this evening is consideration of the
filing of a conservatorship petition for

1265
01:29:59,199 --> 01:30:06,239
a property at 726 East K Street. This is
the location of the former Boston Market

1266
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:11,280
restaurant. The building suffered a
significant fire in December 2024. Since

1267
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:16,159
that time there has been no movement on
addressing the situation by the property

1268
01:30:13,679 --> 01:30:21,040
owners. The township has had to pay to
secure the property on certain occasions

1269
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:26,960
and uh we have been reimbured for some
of these costs. The zoning officer has

1270
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:31,040
filed 54 non-traffic citations in
district court for violations of the

1271
01:30:28,560 --> 01:30:36,239
property maintenance code.
If approved this evening by the board,

1272
01:30:33,199 --> 01:30:41,360
Carl Ewire would serve as the township's
legal council and the petition proposes

1273
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:45,840
that BDP impact real estate would serve
as a conservator.

1274
01:30:43,760 --> 01:30:49,040
Please be advised that we believe this
is will be a fairly expedited process

1275
01:30:48,480 --> 01:30:52,159
and reviewing [clears throat]
information available. There do not

1276
01:30:50,560 --> 01:30:57,360
appear to be any environmental impacts
on the property, for example, water

1277
01:30:54,480 --> 01:31:02,480
courses or flood hazard area and we will
be able to file the petition in short

1278
01:30:59,760 --> 01:31:04,960
order.
Chris,

1279
01:31:02,719 --> 01:31:09,920
» have you any other comments on the web
this uh this evening?

1280
01:31:07,120 --> 01:31:13,520
» Uh no, Mr. Chairman. Um just that this
would meet the requirements under the uh

1281
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:18,960
blighted properties act. Unfortunately,
Mr. Eld was unavailable to attend this

1282
01:31:15,600 --> 01:31:23,280
evening. Um but he's prepared to he's
prepared to petition um which follows

1283
01:31:21,679 --> 01:31:26,400
the standard procedures and he's also
provided um a large amount of

1284
01:31:24,880 --> 01:31:30,320
documentation showing the condition of
the property and it's been in this

1285
01:31:28,400 --> 01:31:36,239
condition
fenced off since it suffered the fire in

1286
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:41,199
December of 2024. And recently I've seen
that there's been graffiti put on it. We

1287
01:31:39,440 --> 01:31:45,040
have a fence we've had to pay to secure
it from a fencing perspective. Secure

1288
01:31:43,199 --> 01:31:48,480
the building. We fenced it off after the
initial fire occurred and we did get

1289
01:31:46,719 --> 01:31:54,800
paid back for those costs to fence it
off. Um, but it is it has not been

1290
01:31:51,679 --> 01:31:58,320
maintained since it went since that
occurred

1291
01:31:56,719 --> 01:32:02,080
and we've heard and we have heard
nothing about any plans to do anything

1292
01:32:01,120 --> 01:32:04,400
with it.
>> Who's the owner?

1293
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:08,000
» It's owned by
>> the owners are deceased. It was the

1294
01:32:06,639 --> 01:32:11,120
husband, wife, and the daughter. The
daughter is like 81 years old and we

1295
01:32:09,920 --> 01:32:14,800
have tried
>> years ago. We tried because there's

1296
01:32:12,719 --> 01:32:18,800
significant leans against the property
and so we were trying to move to collect

1297
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:24,239
the leans and we made considerable
effort to try to find them and locate

1298
01:32:20,320 --> 01:32:29,360
them and ended up not being able to. So
I gave whatever information I had to

1299
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:32,800
Carl Ewald. Um John Izzy leased the
property and was going to then start a

1300
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:35,440
new restaurant. He was going to then
subleasase it to somebody for a

1301
01:32:34,080 --> 01:32:40,400
restaurant. There was some permanent
activity before the fire. Um he is now

1302
01:32:38,719 --> 01:32:44,880
nowhere to be found as well. So,
>> where was he sending his lease payments

1303
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:49,520
and who was cashing them?
>> That presumably is one of the eldest or

1304
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:52,239
» the the daughter who's 81.
>> Is she alive?

1305
01:32:50,639 --> 01:32:53,440
» Yes, she is alive. Does she live in
Pennsylvania?

1306
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:58,199
» She died.
>> I don't believe so. I think she lives in

1307
01:32:55,199 --> 01:32:58,199
Colorado.

1308
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:06,960
» Somewhere. I mean, I have an email from
off top of my head, but my parallegal

1309
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:10,480
handles the lead process. spent
considerable amount of time trying to

1310
01:33:08,320 --> 01:33:14,480
locate them and we ended up not finding
the location to be able to serve them.

1311
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:19,600
» Okay. So, the likely outcome here is
that if this conservative is approved

1312
01:33:16,560 --> 01:33:24,880
through the court process um that the a
demolition would occur and then able to

1313
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:28,639
move into a property sale. Correct.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I called Carl because I

1314
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:31,760
was concerned of how you make proper
service on the owners and they'll have

1315
01:33:30,400 --> 01:33:35,199
to follow whatever proper whatever
procedures the law allows when you can't

1316
01:33:33,440 --> 01:33:37,840
make personal service against owners
property. So this is a little bit more

1317
01:33:36,719 --> 01:33:40,880
difficult because in the other
conservative petition, we knew where the

1318
01:33:39,360 --> 01:33:45,120
property owner was. We were able to make
personal service. So there will be a

1319
01:33:42,719 --> 01:33:49,520
little bit more process to have to go
through to get court approval to serve

1320
01:33:46,800 --> 01:33:52,960
by publication likely. Um but yes,
likely what will happen is once they

1321
01:33:51,199 --> 01:33:57,040
make proper service upon the owners, if
they make they're able to do it through

1322
01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:59,840
publication and owners do not know,
which we don't expect the owner will do

1323
01:33:58,639 --> 01:34:02,880
anything then.
>> So what would the owner need to do if

1324
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:07,440
they wanted to keep the property?
>> Same thing Joe Graph did. come into

1325
01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:10,400
court and try to argue that try to show
a plan of rehabilitation of what they're

1326
01:34:09,040 --> 01:34:13,840
going to do which
>> given the age of the woman and the fact

1327
01:34:12,239 --> 01:34:18,400
that she's not responded to anything the
township's ever tried to do. I don't

1328
01:34:15,360 --> 01:34:22,540
believe she will try to defend this.
>> Well, this conservative would be the

1329
01:34:20,320 --> 01:34:26,480
same as um the previous one
[clears throat] and that the township

1330
01:34:23,600 --> 01:34:31,600
will not be out of pocket uh as part of
any of the costs incurred by Carl and

1331
01:34:28,560 --> 01:34:34,400
the uh conservative company.
>> Yeah. I do have a separate engagement

1332
01:34:32,800 --> 01:34:37,600
plan for him for this project. You
probably should make sure you get that.

1333
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:42,320
» Yep. I did talk to Carl about that.
>> Okay. So, then it'll outline what you

1334
01:34:40,000 --> 01:34:45,520
owe him. It for the work that he's done
to date for the work going forward and

1335
01:34:44,239 --> 01:34:47,360
how he expects to be paid. I think
that's important to put that for him to

1336
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:51,280
put that in.
>> If I'm remembering correctly, it was

1337
01:34:48,880 --> 01:34:56,239
written that any sort of any cost that
he incurs are paid through paid by

1338
01:34:53,760 --> 01:35:00,400
either the property owner or through the
sale of the property. And there's a 20%

1339
01:34:58,960 --> 01:35:05,120
conservative fee.
>> Okay. So you you we need that in place

1340
01:35:03,520 --> 01:35:07,120
before we approve this tonight
potentially.

1341
01:35:05,760 --> 01:35:09,679
» I think it could be conditioned upon
making sure you have that in writing.

1342
01:35:08,960 --> 01:35:13,440
» Okay.
>> That you wouldn't authorize him to file

1343
01:35:11,440 --> 01:35:16,960
that until he has sent in that and you
guys have given Chris the authorization

1344
01:35:15,440 --> 01:35:19,920
to go ahead and sign that engagement
letter.

1345
01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:24,000
» Okay.
>> Any other questions from the board?

1346
01:35:22,239 --> 01:35:31,040
» I'll just just so the board is aware.
So, in speaking with Carl, his plan is

1347
01:35:27,040 --> 01:35:37,120
to try and do both the initial and final
plan hearings all in all at once. And

1348
01:35:34,080 --> 01:35:41,280
the goal is to do demolition and return
the property to grass.

1349
01:35:39,440 --> 01:35:46,320
» Okay.
Any questions from the board?

1350
01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:52,400
» Yeah. Once the conservatives go through,
they demolish, they do all of that. Um,

1351
01:35:49,920 --> 01:35:57,679
they the conservatives said try to sell
the property. Obviously the owner if it

1352
01:35:54,719 --> 01:36:00,480
comes forth would have first refusal but
if they don't come then the conservative

1353
01:35:59,440 --> 01:36:04,960
will sell the property.
>> Well the owner retains the ownership of

1354
01:36:02,960 --> 01:36:10,080
the property. The conservator does
excuse me the rehabilitative work. So

1355
01:36:08,239 --> 01:36:14,560
the owner it's my understanding that the
owner gets presented with a bill for the

1356
01:36:11,760 --> 01:36:19,520
cost for demolition lawyers fees all
that if they can't plus a 20% fee right

1357
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:26,080
» for the conservator. If they cannot pay
that, then they're then they sell the

1358
01:36:21,440 --> 01:36:28,400
property in order to sell the propert
pay for the cost to do all that was

1359
01:36:27,679 --> 01:36:31,120
done.
>> And what if the property is worth more

1360
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:34,880
than what
>> the money

1361
01:36:33,199 --> 01:36:38,159
that you can't find?
>> Well, that again this there's going to

1362
01:36:36,719 --> 01:36:41,760
be more to this story. like we can't
tell you exactly how this is going to

1363
01:36:39,280 --> 01:36:46,719
play out because in my mind too
depending on what rights the tenant had.

1364
01:36:44,960 --> 01:36:50,960
He may still have property interests
that may have to be notified of the

1365
01:36:48,320 --> 01:36:54,159
filing as well. So I don't know, we
don't know. We're not they don't have a

1366
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:58,960
requirement to give us copies of leases
or to understand what property interest

1367
01:36:56,239 --> 01:37:02,560
John Izzy had as a tenant and then
whoever he was leasing to for the

1368
01:37:01,119 --> 01:37:07,520
building. I think that person's walked
away. But there definitely is going to

1369
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:12,639
be other people that may who had
property interest in the property that

1370
01:37:09,040 --> 01:37:15,440
want to see something happen there. So,
I mean, it's going to be for Carl to

1371
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:19,679
have to sort through.
>> Well, we're going to be like kept

1372
01:37:16,800 --> 01:37:23,760
apprised with all of that, right?
Forward. He's going to inform us if he's

1373
01:37:21,600 --> 01:37:28,400
made service and he's having trouble
making service.

1374
01:37:25,679 --> 01:37:32,719
» Absolutely.
>> Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the

1375
01:37:30,719 --> 01:37:39,840
conservative conservatorship petition
for 726 East Gay Street and the uh the

1376
01:37:36,560 --> 01:37:46,480
filing of that uh to the court subject
to a an agreement with the township in

1377
01:37:44,239 --> 01:37:52,400
Carl
uh proved by Mr. Bashaw

1378
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:55,199
conditions acceptable to the township.
>> Okay. Is that reasonable?

1379
01:37:54,159 --> 01:37:59,520
» Yeah.
>> All right. Is there a second?

1380
01:37:57,119 --> 01:38:03,679
» Second.
Thank you. Is there any public comments

1381
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:08,639
or questions on the motion?
Very good. We'll take a vote. All in

1382
01:38:05,280 --> 01:38:14,639
favor say I. I. Is there any opposition
hearing? That motion passes 4 Z.

1383
01:38:12,480 --> 01:38:19,280
Thank you. Agenda item number 10 is
discussion and possible adoption of

1384
01:38:16,239 --> 01:38:24,239
ordinance number 5, 2026,
approving amendments to the chapter 60

1385
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:28,880
pedaling and soliciting the West Ocean
Township Code of Ordinances. Kristen.

1386
01:38:27,040 --> 01:38:32,880
» Yes. We presented this at the last
meeting. This was something the chief

1387
01:38:30,159 --> 01:38:38,639
asked me to prepare. Chapter 60 is your
solicitation ordinance and he was seeing

1388
01:38:35,360 --> 01:38:43,360
an issue with companies basically
sending their employees out to do

1389
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:47,440
without permits. So rather than just
hold the person who was doing the

1390
01:38:45,520 --> 01:38:50,800
solicitation without the permit, the
chief wanted an ability to actually site

1391
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:55,280
the company that was sending these
people. So, we added a paragraph to

1392
01:38:53,199 --> 01:39:00,239
section 60-1
of your chapter, which states that it's

1393
01:38:58,239 --> 01:39:05,920
unlawful for any person, company, or
entity to employ or contract with any

1394
01:39:03,440 --> 01:39:10,320
person to engage in basically the
solicitation of goods and services. So,

1395
01:39:07,600 --> 01:39:14,080
that's what's been added to 60-1. We
did, because this is part of your

1396
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:17,840
ordinance, we did have to advertise this
part of the meeting as a hearing, and we

1397
01:39:15,920 --> 01:39:21,679
did that in the daily local news on
August 24th. And I also sent a copy of

1398
01:39:20,000 --> 01:39:25,760
the ordinance for public inspection to
the law library in the daily vocal. So

1399
01:39:23,679 --> 01:39:32,000
it's just adding one sentence to section
60-1. That's the extent of the change.

1400
01:39:28,639 --> 01:39:35,040
» Doesn't it doesn't it say your personal
company to engage?

1401
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:39,119
» It's just being for any person, company
or entity to employ or contract with.

1402
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:44,239
» What came in the factory was up was not
the correct language.

1403
01:39:41,679 --> 01:39:46,800
» Yeah, this one says person. Okay. So
>> I sort of deleted an updated version

1404
01:39:46,320 --> 01:39:49,440
yesterday.
>> Oh, okay.

1405
01:39:48,734 --> 01:39:54,639
[clears throat]
Any other questions from the board?

1406
01:39:52,080 --> 01:40:00,320
Okay, I'll make a motion to adopt
ordinance number 5, 2026,

1407
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:03,280
um, amending chapter 60 of the West
Coast Township Code. Is there a second?

1408
01:40:02,719 --> 01:40:07,840
» Second.
>> Thank you, Nate. Any public comment or

1409
01:40:05,119 --> 01:40:11,440
questions? Okay, we'll take a vote. All
in favor say I. I. Is there any

1410
01:40:09,920 --> 01:40:16,320
opposition?
>> Hearing none, the motion passes 4.

1411
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:21,440
Agenda item number 11 is approval of the
board of supervisors meeting minutes

1412
01:40:18,480 --> 01:40:25,600
from August the 4, 2026.
I provided some typo corrections to

1413
01:40:23,840 --> 01:40:29,600
Chris. Has any other board member had
any corrections or changes?

1414
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:32,880
» Mr. Wman provided me a few corrections
and I made all the changes.

1415
01:40:31,119 --> 01:40:37,199
» Okay. Okay. Well, I'll make a motion to
approve the the uh board of supervisors

1416
01:40:35,360 --> 01:40:40,080
meeting minutes from August 4th with the
changes to myself, Mr. Wman. Is there a

1417
01:40:39,119 --> 01:40:42,400
second?
>> I'll second that.

1418
01:40:41,040 --> 01:40:46,239
» Thank you to you. Is there any public
comments or questions?

1419
01:40:44,560 --> 01:40:52,239
Okay, we'll take a vote. All in favor
say I. I. Is there any opposition?

1420
01:40:49,280 --> 01:40:57,840
Hearing none. The motion passes 40.
Item number 12 is approval of the bills

1421
01:40:55,840 --> 01:41:02,719
to be paid. The general fund, the sewer
revenue fund, the waste and recycling

1422
01:40:59,679 --> 01:41:07,880
fund, and the capital reserve fund.
Does anyone on the board have any

1423
01:41:03,920 --> 01:41:07,880
questions about the bills list?

1424
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:18,320
Chris, I had a question on check
uh 6488

1425
01:41:15,040 --> 01:41:21,760
to MK renovations. I believe you would
that has now been addressed correctly.

1426
01:41:20,719 --> 01:41:25,440
» That's correct.
>> So this current bill is not going to be

1427
01:41:23,920 --> 01:41:29,600
paid by that check number.
>> Well, that yes, that check was issued.

1428
01:41:27,679 --> 01:41:32,639
However, it's going to be in speaking
with Mr. Ko, it's going to be returned

1429
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:37,360
to us and cancelled.
>> Okay.

1430
01:41:35,040 --> 01:41:41,520
» All right. Is there any other questions?
Okay, I'll make a motion to approve the

1431
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:45,520
bills to be paid for the funds that I
described with that change that uh we

1432
01:41:43,840 --> 01:41:48,480
just discussed. Is there a second?
>> I'll second.

1433
01:41:47,040 --> 01:41:51,440
» Any public comments or questions on the
bills list?

1434
01:41:50,159 --> 01:41:57,679
» All right, we'll take a vote. All in
favor say I. I. Is there any opposition?

1435
01:41:54,320 --> 01:42:02,000
Motion passes 4. I move to a meeting at
7:45. Is there a second? Second.

1436
01:42:00,239 --> 01:42:06,760
» Thank you. All in favor of adjournment
say I.

1437
01:42:02,880 --> 01:42:06,760
» I. Thank you everyone.

1438
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:36,800
Do you touch my

1439
01:42:51,280 --> 01:42:56,960
What do I know?
is not sh.